# DDay+1



## RockyInSeattle (Jul 5, 2017)

Here’s what I know so far and situation; keeping it vague to keep it short but can provide more details as needed.
WS and I have been married for over a decade and have an elementary school age child. WS had been periodically in infrequent Facebook contact with “first love” for a few years at a distance of over 1,000 miles. This year, due to some verifiable circumstances in the AP’s life, this infrequent contact by Facebook turned into hours and hours on the phone and texting for “support.” WS did not hide this contact but became very defensive when challenged on the time and emotional effort being expended. Insisted no possible threat to our marriage because WS would not leave me. A couple of months ago I overheard a whispered declaration of love. Immediately confronted—WS was apologetic but brought up missing elements of our marriage, various things I had done that hurt WS emotionally, etc. Asked to continue “support” for AP through a specific point in time when it would no longer be needed and promised to scale back contact. I reluctantly agree. After reading the forums looking back on this I realize virtually everything WS said at the time was TT.

For a while, WS seems to hold to this promise; going back and reviewing phone and message data shows a reduction in contact time and intensity. However, last night I again overheard another, and unprompted, declaration of love on the phone when WS didn’t realize I was in the room. I immediately confronted and made WS hang up phone and told WS that was it, there was to be no more contact. WS agreed. I then called AP, who hung up immediately when they heard my voice, and left several voice mails. I demanded to see WS phone and e-mail accounts. WS allowed this with no pushback. While WS had been deleting text logs and e-mail I found more than enough material since WS last delete to leave absolutely no doubt as to the situation. I told WS to make screenshots of the texts and forward me the e-mails and these screenshots. WS did both of these things again without pushback. I told WS my intention is to contact AP and tell them any contact from them, at all, will result in the material I have in my possession going directly to their spouse, kids, and family, which is highly likely to end the AP’s marriage. I told WS any contact from her to AP and it is going to our extended family.

This morning I’ve gone back and looked at phone records—while I knew WS was spending a lot of time on the phone with AP I had no idea exactly how bad it was. I’ve read through the newbie thread and will present WS with both a No Contact Agreement and a No Contact Letter template and see how it goes.

Anything else I should be doing on DDay +1?


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Well, first, you do have a pronoun in your paragraph as it seems you were intentionally trying to be vague.

Second, is the AP married? Can you expose? You should to keep them from trying to contact as well. 

Third, I think that at this point, it's not worth it. WS has shown true colors, you will be so stressed thinking and researching and agonizing over this and WS still has possibilities to take it even further underground. Not a way you want to live your life...


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

You must expose. Just don't give her a heads up or she'll alert the OM so they can come up with a B.S. story.

Send everything you have to the the OM's wife, kids, etc. This will show the true colors of your wife. If she is remorseful, she'll fully support you. If she hates/resents you for it, then you already lost her.

How's the health of your marriage? Are you two intimate often? Talk to each other? Spend time with each other? Why did she need emotional support from someone who isn't her husband?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Expose to all. Don't be a part of hiding your W secret. Besides, exposing will disrupt the hell out of the nonsense going on.


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## RockyInSeattle (Jul 5, 2017)

AP is married, APs spouse is suspicious, and I have them dead to rights. I was thinking that the threat of exposure would do more than actual exposure to prevent AP from attempting contact.

Our marriage has been lacking in physical intimacy for three to four years due largely to psychological and physical issues WS has been going through. But up until last year I would have said we were a strong and supportive partnership.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

I'd expose to both his family and hers. You really have nothing to lose. If your wife gets all mad and leaves, she was going to anyway, but she'd have control of the narrative when it's of her choosing.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

RockyInSeattle said:


> AP is married, APs spouse is suspicious, and I have them dead to rights. I was thinking that the threat of exposure would do more than actual exposure to prevent AP from attempting contact.
> 
> Our marriage has been lacking in physical intimacy for three to four years due largely to psychological and physical issues WS has been going through. But up until last year I would have said we were a strong and supportive partnership.


Ah, yes....

Since both are pro-nouns and not flesh and blood, not to worry.

I think most of us on here can smell out the actions of a Wayward Wife.
Wayward males reek of Brut. 

In real life, POSOM's use Joop...to cover the smell of their lying Poop.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

RockyInSeattle said:


> AP is married, APs spouse is suspicious, and I have them dead to rights. I was thinking that the threat of exposure would do more than actual exposure to prevent AP from attempting contact.
> 
> 
> 
> Our marriage has been lacking in physical intimacy for three to four years due largely to psychological and physical issues WS has been going through. But up until last year I would have said we were a strong and supportive partnership.




I understand why this makes sense, it understand your wife was cheating on you before (as was her boyfriend cheating on his wife). Once they rug sweep you they'll go around you again.

Please please please expose ASAP. It is the ONLY way to kill the affair. The ONLY 100% way. And you must do it quickly since he now knows that you are onto him. He's already telling his wife about this 'crazy husband of one of his female friends'. For it to be effective you need to do it ASAP.

Please do this ASAP. I have been helping people for decades and this is THE ONLY WAY to kill this dead right away.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

She needs consequences. Exposure to her family, not yours' .............yet.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

RockyInSeattle said:


> Here’s what I know so far and situation; keeping it vague to keep it short but can provide more details as needed.
> WS and I have been married for over a decade and have an elementary school age child. WS had been periodically in infrequent Facebook contact with “first love” for a few years at a distance of over 1,000 miles. This year, due to some verifiable circumstances in the AP’s life, this infrequent contact by Facebook turned into hours and hours on the phone and texting for “support.” WS did not hide this contact but became very defensive when challenged on the time and emotional effort being expended. Insisted no possible threat to our marriage because WS would not leave me. A couple of months ago I overheard a whispered declaration of love. Immediately confronted—WS was apologetic but brought up missing elements of our marriage, various things I had done that hurt WS emotionally, etc. Asked to continue “support” for AP through a specific point in time when it would no longer be needed and promised to scale back contact. I reluctantly agree. After reading the forums looking back on this I realize virtually everything WS said at the time was TT.
> 
> For a while, WS seems to hold to this promise; going back and reviewing phone and message data shows a reduction in contact time and intensity. However, last night I again overheard another, and unprompted, declaration of love on the phone when WS didn’t realize I was in the room. I immediately confronted and made WS hang up phone and told WS that was it, there was to be no more contact. WS agreed. I then called AP, who hung up immediately when they heard my voice, and left several voice mails. I demanded to see WS phone and e-mail accounts. WS allowed this with no pushback. While WS had been deleting text logs and e-mail I found more than enough material since WS last delete to leave absolutely no doubt as to the situation. I told WS to make screenshots of the texts and forward me the e-mails and these screenshots. WS did both of these things again without pushback. I told WS my intention is to contact AP and tell them any contact from them, at all, will result in the material I have in my possession going directly to their spouse, kids, and family, which is highly likely to end the AP’s marriage. I told WS any contact from her to AP and it is going to our extended family.
> ...



You need to go fully scorched earth because they will be in contact again as soon as the smoke clears. There has to be full consequences.

1. Expose to family and friends
2. Expose to his wife immediately, that poor woman has a right to know what is happening in her marriage
3. No contact letter to OM
4. Full access to all electronics and social media accounts
3. Do the 180 on her immediately, deal only with kids, etc. Tell her if she wants the marriage to work, she has to do the heavy lifting, you start working on yourself, go to the gym, go out with the lads, etc
5. Plan to go to MC
6. Talk to a lawyer to see where you stand, even if you do not file, it is good to know and let her know that is what you are doing.

YOu need to scare her out of that fog and let her see what she is about to lose.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

call a lawyer know your rights get your ducks lined up.

JUST IN CASE THINGS DON'T WORK OUT.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

So you're in a sexless marriage? Seems like a GREAT reason to divorce her and find someone to be intimate with. You are lucky, I wish I could have found my ex wife in an EA before I divorced her. 

Are you sure you want to save this sham of a marriage? Why you allowing the marriage to be a roommate situation? It's no surprise one of you went outside the marriage to find the emotional/physical connection that is missing.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

dubsey said:


> I'd expose to both his family and hers. You really have nothing to lose. If your wife gets all mad and leaves, she was going to anyway, but she'd have control of the narrative when it's of her choosing.


OP worked very hard to keep the post gender neutral. Quite a feat although painfully obvious in parts.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

RockyInSeattle said:


> Here’s what I know so far and situation; keeping it vague to keep it short but can provide more details as needed.
> WS and I have been married for over a decade and have an elementary school age child. WS had been periodically in infrequent Facebook contact with “first love” for a few years at a distance of over 1,000 miles. This year, due to some verifiable circumstances in the AP’s life, this infrequent contact by Facebook turned into hours and hours on the phone and texting for “support.” WS did not hide this contact but became very defensive when challenged on the time and emotional effort being expended. Insisted no possible threat to our marriage because WS would not leave me. A couple of months ago I overheard a whispered declaration of love. Immediately confronted—WS was apologetic but brought up missing elements of our marriage, various things I had done that hurt WS emotionally, etc. Asked to continue “support” for AP through a specific point in time when it would no longer be needed and promised to scale back contact. I reluctantly agree. After reading the forums looking back on this I realize virtually everything WS said at the time was TT.
> 
> For a while, WS seems to hold to this promise; going back and reviewing phone and message data shows a reduction in contact time and intensity. However, last night I again overheard another, and unprompted, declaration of love on the phone when WS didn’t realize I was in the room. I immediately confronted and made WS hang up phone and told WS that was it, there was to be no more contact. WS agreed. I then called AP, who hung up immediately when they heard my voice, and left several voice mails. I demanded to see WS phone and e-mail accounts. WS allowed this with no pushback. While WS had been deleting text logs and e-mail I found more than enough material since WS last delete to leave absolutely no doubt as to the situation. I told WS to make screenshots of the texts and forward me the e-mails and these screenshots. WS did both of these things again without pushback. I told WS my intention is to contact AP and tell them any contact from them, at all, will result in the material I have in my possession going directly to their spouse, kids, and family, which is highly likely to end the AP’s marriage. I told WS any contact from her to AP and it is going to our extended family.
> ...


1. Expose to the AP's spouse NOW, as this will greatly enhance your odds of actually squashing the affair.

2. Any further violations of NC need to be met with divorce papers being served to your WS.

3. Start shopping around for both marriage counselors and divorce attorneys, as you'll pretty likely need the services of at least one of those soon.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

RockyInSeattle said:


> AP is married, APs spouse is suspicious, and I have them dead to rights. I was thinking that the threat of exposure would do more than actual exposure to prevent AP from attempting contact.
> Our marriage has been lacking in physical intimacy for three to four years due largely to psychological and physical issues WS has been going through. But up until last year I would have said we were a strong and supportive partnership.


Nope. And your lack of getting much pu......errr intimacy, got way more to do with her digging the other guy (a lot more than you) than it does psychological/physical issues. Oh ya, you agreeing to allow her the maintain contact ain't the smartest thing you've ever done my man.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

BobSimmons said:


> OP worked very hard to keep the post gender neutral. Quite a feat although painfully obvious in parts.


TBH, I didn't even notice that. Could be my own predisposition to things, or I'm also quite dyslexic, and I may have read life as wife as I was going through and shifted my perspective.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

RockyInSeattle said:


> Anything else I should be doing on DDay +1?


Take care of yourself. Eat healthfully, avoid alcohol, reduce tobacco if you smoke/chew currently. Exercise as much as you can, even if it is just going for a walk. Avoid caffeine. Try to get regular sleep. If necessary kick your wife out of the bedroom so you can get good sleep.

If you feel emotionally stretched, see a counselor. Your work should offer Employee Assistance Program, aka EAP, which is free and totally confidential counseling. Your employer will never know you even went. Federal law puts very tight restrictions on EAP disclosure, so it is confidential. It is there for exactly your situation, a temporary crisis where you need someone to talk to.

Don't make any instant decisions about D or R. This is a process. You can even change your mind years in the future and then change course. So don't feel pressured to decide one way or the other yet. Hold her feet to the fire, evaluate progress as you go. Don't accept any blame for what she's done.

Good luck. You're on the right track so far, maybe you'll have a good outcome.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

It's incredibly weak to bargain with the OM for no contact. It's the same as admitting to him you don't feel your WW will stop on her own. Just expose to his wife, don't tell your wife you did, blow up his world, and then wait and see if your WW finds out about it. If she does, you'll know that *she* broke no contact. 

Then forget about him and focus on your own cheating wife. She's got a lot of work to do if you want to consider R.

Sorry you're here.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Can you give some indication of what her issues are that cause a sexless marriage?


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

She is an addict for him.

You are dealing with a drug addict and he is her drug.

forget MC, waste of time and money.

Go see your attorney.


Tell her to go get a bus ticket one way to his house, after you expose to all.

you stay, she leaves.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

RockyInSeattle said:


> AP is married, APs spouse is suspicious, and I have them dead to rights. I was thinking that the threat of exposure would do more than actual exposure to prevent AP from attempting contact.
> 
> Our marriage has been lacking in physical intimacy for three to four years due largely to psychological and physical issues WS has been going through. But up until last year I would have said we were a strong and supportive partnership.


Exposing will put eyes on the other end assuring POS is not contacting your W. Pull the plug dude. It is the only way.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Don't ever negotiate with a cheater. 

There's nothing TO negotiate. 

What she is doing is wrong. There are only two choices she has: remain and act like a married woman or become and act like a divorced one. 

Find your ballz.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Why do you want to be marred to someone who loves someone else? That is a good question to start with.


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## pbj2016 (May 7, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Why do you want to be marred to someone who loves someone else? That is a good question to start with.




....marred.... sounds like you nailed it


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

All you did by threatening the AP was to warn him and give him a chance to make up a story about this crazy person in Seattle who is threatening him. Just expose and let the chips fall where they may. You need to send your snapshots to the other BS as proof. This will give you two sets of eyes on the cheaters. Not sure if this is worth the time, energy, and agony that will be required to save. Sounds like your spouse will always have to be watched from here on out. Who needs that kind of life?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

OP I get what you're trying to do and I probably would respond similarly. But I've been here a while and have seen the pattern play out many times.

You are taking control. That's good. But you have far less control over your WW and her AP than you think. Ultimately she may give up her AP due to fear of exposure and maybe even shame.

But that's not the same as remorse. Remorse is feeling your pain and changing to ensure that you are not hurt. It's putting you first.

WS don't have the ability to feel remorse when their bubble is burst - instead it becomes an exercise in self preservation and minimizing consequences.

A remorseful person would lead with the NC letter, full transparency, and continually ask what you need. I've never seen this occur so close to DDAY

That's why you should change your focus from keeping WW and AP apart - to protecting yourself. To protect yourself and ignore them, you must not GAF and expose directly to the OBS

This is the only right answer with respect to the OBS. Since your WW and the AP aren't your focus, it doesn't matter what the consequences are for them. And they are consequences, not something you are doing.

As others have said, your WS's reaction AFTER you expose will show you where her loyalties lie today (I emphasize today because after her world collapses and she starts to think rationally, she may well realize you should be where her loyalties lie)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

RockyInSeattle said:


> AP is married, APs spouse is suspicious, and I have them dead to rights. I was thinking that the threat of exposure would do more than actual exposure to prevent AP from attempting contact.
> 
> Our marriage has been lacking in physical intimacy for three to four years due largely to psychological and physical issues WS has been going through. But up until last year I would have said we were a strong and supportive partnership.


Personally, I think you did exactly what most of us would do in this situation. Possibly even better, IMO. What people are suggesting (ie. expose now, don't negotiate, etc.) comes from experience, reading this forum, etc.

It's good advice, but don't feel stupid that you didn't react this way.

That said - I agree with that advice, to expose now. You gain nothing by threatening to do so in the future, should it continue. The reality is that it WILL continue, almost assuredly. Just much more underground and hidden.

And the longer it continues, the closer it'll get to the point where neither of them care if they're exposed or not.

Now, the only reason you won't expose right this moment is this: you'd prefer this go away on it's own - and that's okay. It's human nature, really. It's inherently embarrassing to have to contact someone else's spouse and inform them your wife is engaging with their husband, I get it. But it's equally embarrassing to them, as well.

On the plus side, there's quite a bit of physical distance between them. If OM has children (and you said you have a school-aged child), then there's really no chance the two of them would ever be able to run off together without one of them abandoning their family.

However, if OM's wife never knows about this, then nothing's stopping him from taking a 'business trip' to your neck of the woods at some point in the future.

My ex wife had a long distance online affair (very long distance, Europe - North America) for some 2 years. At some point right before she announced she wanted a divorce, OM had actually flown here and, presumably, made it physical. Last I heard, they're still together, so at the very least my marriage didn't blow up for a 2 month fling, but it's a small consolation.

Expose now and put a stop to it. If it does not stop, then at least you will know this marriage is not worth saving. But the chances are good that, by flexing these muscles and mate guarding, your wife will re-discover a modicum of respect for you.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Exposing Day was the best day of my otherwise crappy marriage.
Do it now!
BTW why are you withholding the HE or SHE from your story?
It does make a difference.


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## pbj2016 (May 7, 2017)

StillSearching said:


> Exposing Day was the best day of my otherwise crappy marriage.
> 
> Do it now!
> 
> ...




Why does it matter? Cheating is cheating. Marriage vows usually have at least implied "forsake all others" clause and if the OP's spouse is investing emotionally and receiving emotional boosts in return with someone else at the expense of the OP then it is cheating regardless of gender. 

The OP is right to suspect the spouse has established the foundation for an emotional affair and has the radar on and knows to be wary, cautious and even jealous.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

pbj2016 said:


> Why does it matter? Cheating is cheating. Marriage vows usually have at least implied "forsake all others" clause and if the OP's spouse is investing emotionally and receiving emotional boosts in return with someone else at the expense of the OP then it is cheating regardless of gender.
> 
> The OP is right to suspect the spouse has established the foundation for an emotional affair and has the radar on and knows to be wary, cautious and even jealous.



It does matter. Men and women very much different. Nature made sure of that. 
I have plenty of experience with it. Women and men bring different things into a marriage and thus give different things away when they cheat.
EAs are not all the same either. 
Yes cheating is cheating.
PBJ are you a BS?


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## Dannip (Jun 13, 2017)

Your WS has zero concept of what marriage and commitment is really about. 

This behavior will continue. Let this continue without you involved. You deserve better. Your spouse deserves a lifetime of dreaming about dating. 

Write this one off as lessons learned. I am
Willing to bet as soon as you serve divorce papers there will be a HUGE flury of apologies. It will be a lie. This WS needs a nice home to then continue the dating dream. You will have threatened it. Your spouse will fight to maintain you as the safe easy stooge. 

Just set your spouse free. Marriage is not for everyone. Move on. Your spouse is an unfit partner. 

While you have the papers served, expose to all family. Yours, WSs, friends. Everyone you know. The reason is your spouse will attack and inform everyone you are evil. Get ahead of that with the truth first. Don't wait. Cleaning up lies with truth weakens the truth. Be first. 

Ask for their prayers, understanding and support for both of you during this sad time.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Expose to the other betrayed spouse. You are helping hide their affair which will probably enable it further. A lot go underground at this point. Better wake up!!!!!

Talk is weak. Actions show strength.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

pbj2016 said:


> ....marred.... sounds like you nailed it


You know what I meant, but it does work. :grin2:


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> Nope. And your lack of getting much pu......errr intimacy, got way more to do with her digging the other guy (a lot more than you) than it does psychological/physical issues. Oh ya, you agreeing to allow her the maintain contact ain't the smartest thing you've ever done my man.


This is so true. Not being intimate for an extended period is a sure fire way for one spouse or the other to search out and find validation and later intimacy with someone else.

OK, on the psychological issue? Was it childhood sexual abuse or rape at a later time?

Is intercourse painful for her? Or is she saying it "is" to keep you out of her warm nest?

You must take her to the doctor and have her checked out.

In the meantime [if you still care!] keep her sexually sated via oral, your fingers, whatever.

You cannot let a women go untouched. You can't.

They get figgity, their brain does. Their vagina gets itchy. Needs to be relieved with a blunt rubbery stick and a bit of Calamine lotion inserted.......in that recess.

Next time you talk to her make a Recess Appointment.....if you still want to work this out. 

I would walk away.


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## theDrifter (Mar 20, 2017)

One thing that has been proven over & over again is that an EA will go physical if there is any possibility that they can meet up. In the stunned, confused state of mind you are in right now you don't want to hear this and you don't even want to know if it's true. But very soon the question of "was it physical" will be very important to you. Your wife will deny absolutely everything that she believes you cannot prove. Everything. Now that you warned AP you have given them ample opportunity to get their stories straight and make your digging harder. That's a big reason why you should tell his wife about it - she can help put the timeline together and look for obvious opportunities for them to hook up. Another big reason is that exposing to the other BS helps end the affair right f'king now. Yes, many will say you must tell OBS just to be a good person but, really, you need to think a bit selfishly right now: you tell her to get information so you can determine what's best for you and help you with the very tough decisions you are going to need to make over the next few weeks & months. 

The fact that she can't stay away from this guy is obviously a huge issue. First love is one of the most powerful forces in the universe and, frankly, you should consider letting her go so she can be with him. Research shows that when couples like this re-attach later in life they have very strong, happy marriages. I'm not saying this to hurt you, just telling you that the divorce option might end up being the best for both of you and be an opportunity to cut your losses and avoid a long, painful - but doomed - reconciliation effort.

Remember one thing above all others: she is lying to you about everything.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

StillSearching said:


> BTW why are you withholding the HE or SHE from your story?
> It does make a difference.


He's not. In his first post he used the pronoun "her".



> I told WS any contact from her to AP and it is going to our extended family.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

dubsey said:


> TBH, I didn't even notice that. Could be my own predisposition to things, or I'm also quite dyslexic, and I may have read life as wife as I was going through and shifted my perspective.


Oh no, definitely not a criticism, just when you're reading these sorts of posts you look for gender cues, as I said you have to work pretty hard to avoid using he/she/her/him.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Aside from being in a sexless marriage, can you see yourself staying married to a woman who says that she is in love with another man? Regardless of her intentions to stay with you, I would set her free to follow her OM whom she loves.

She obviously does not love you like she loves him.
She obviously has little respect for you or you marriage since she devotes all her emotional love to him.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Wonder if the basis for the EA is in fact the distance invovled. OP says sex is off the table due to both physical and psychological issues. The distances conforms to her needs, an intense emotional outlet with out the threat of sex.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Drive by poster, evidently. Move along now. 

I wish I'd had the level of proof he has. It would've made my decision a lot easier. 

EXPOSE TO EVERYONE.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You are playing defense here. You need to strengthen your position.

I would contact the OMW with the details and then tell your WW that you are giving her her heart's desire: You will help her pack and she can go to him. You have cleared the way by telling his BW, so the two soulmates can now be together.

And then let her go if she bites. If she doesn't, you've put yourself in the driver's seat.

Don't be the cheating police. You can't imprison someone into wanting you. Just tell her she's free to go. Why do you want to be with a liar anyway?


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

RockyinSeattles's wife here. He left out a very important detail. The reason the marriage is sexless is because he's NEVER been able to keep it up during sex, he has no idea what good foreplay is, and he's never learned the art of seduction. This has been going on since before we were married. He's made zero effort to up his game, and it's likely he never will. I've tried, but I married a guy who had maybe had successful intercourse 3-4 times prior to our marriage.

I used to try to get him to understand that sex was important to me and he would take a few half measures which were awkward and, quite frankly, sucked, and at some point I just gave up trying. 

This business about ME not being able to have sex due to "physical and psychological reasons" is a complete lie.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

So why did you marry him? Or why not just do the honorable thing and request a divorce from this person you are so displeased with? I

Sent from my BTV-W09 using Tapatalk


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Why are you not willing to divorce him if you are in love with another?


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## JustTheFacts (Jun 27, 2017)

Expose right away. Don't delay. Stay focused and protect yourself and your child legally and financially.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

I married him because he has a lot of wonderful qualities, and I honestly thought we could work on the sex thing. On that, I was very wrong. For a long time, he wouldn't even talk about it. When he got over that (slightly), any suggestion I would make he took extremely literally. He has always depended on porn to get off. I'm not a child - I understand the attraction to porn and I've never objected to him watching it. I did, however, point out that it was likely getting in the way of having a healthy, genuine sex life. He agrees, but hasn't made any changes.

What I would have liked is for him to research how to create a genuinely erotic experience for me. I don't know what's out there for men, but I'm sick of having to hold his hand. 

Another thing he glossed over is that the other man was diagnosed with congestive heart failure two weeks after we started talking on the phone. His wife is suffering from some major effects of a disease she contracted while working in a less-developed country. It's so bad that she wears fentanyl patches, and takes meds for at least five other major health issues. She does not have the capacity to care for him, and he's more or less OK with that, but he did and does appreciate having someone to talk to. Yes, he has a therapist, but he's a proud guy and did not want his coworkers/friends to know about it.

Why don't I just divorce my husband if I love someone else? Because I have the capacity to love both him and the other man. Yes, I love them both.

Finally, the other man was my first love, and I was his. If you read up on it, that's a very powerful bond and the other man is the ONLY man in the world who could have possibly breached the husband/wife barrier for me. My husband knows all of this, and I've even told him that there will always be residual love between me and the other man. It's impossible to deny.

I know this is difficult for this forum to understand, but the situation is complex. I'm actually very surprised that he resorted to a message board to try and sort out this problem, and yet I'm not. He quite literally downloaded some "no contact" letters, and duplicated the formula laid out by some of the contributors here. Every day I now toss him my phone to he can go through it, he makes sure I don't change my passcode, etc.

Ironically, if he expended this much effort on message boards dedicated to "how to satisfy a woman", things might be very, very different right now.


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## JustTheFacts (Jun 27, 2017)

You love them both but your only married to one


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

You two seem like good candidates for an amicable divorce. I went this route 1.5 years ago and both me and ex wife are much happier. We co-parent well and she gladly takes a $1k/month from me. I gladly pay it because I don't have to see her and I'm getting laid everyday by my beautiful fiancee who I actually enjoy being around. We were in a 4+ year sexless marriage out of our 8 years when I left her. We somehow had two kids with the minimal sex we had. The resentment was too much to overcome, I would never have sex with her again. Divorced with a 4yr/5yr at the time and they are doing just fine 1.5yrs later.

Just admit you marriage is a sham and you both need to move on to get your needs met and be happy. Nothing wrong with divorce. Your child will be fine and benefit from seeing her parents in a happy and legit relationship in the future. 

You two won't make it anyways after your kid turns 18, so just end it now while you're both still in your prime. Do you both want to save the marriage or is it a lost cause?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Princess_Kate said:


> Why don't I just divorce my husband if I love someone else? Because I have the capacity to love both him and the other man. Yes, I love them both.


But you can only be true to one while betraying the other. Pick one.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

GuyInColorado said:


> You two seem like good candidates for an amicable divorce. I went this route 1.5 years ago and both me and ex wife are much happier. We co-parent well and she gladly takes a $1k/month from me. I gladly pay it because I don't have to see her and I'm getting laid everyday by my beautiful fiancee who I actually enjoy being around. We were in a 4+ year sexless marriage out of our 8 years when I left her. We somehow had two kids with the minimal sex we had. The resentment was too much to overcome, I would never have sex with her again. Divorced with a 4yr/5yr at the time and they are doing just fine 1.5yrs later.
> 
> Just admit you marriage is a sham and you both need to move on to get your needs met and be happy. Nothing wrong with divorce. Your child will be fine and benefit from seeing her parents in a happy and legit relationship in the future.
> 
> You two won't make it anyways after your kid turns 18, so just end it now while you're both still in your prime. Do you both want to save the marriage or is it a lost cause?


I agree. 

Both of you are beating your heads into walls and saying it's just a headache.

Rocky, your spouse has lost all respect and desire for you and is in love with another man but she is staying in your house because the other dude won't leave his his wife and she just wants your help paying the bills and help with raising the kid.

And Princess, you are completely unsatisfied in your marriage but the man you're infatuated with has heart disease , won't leave his ailing wife and lives halfway across the country.

Both of you are living in a dream world and neither of you is the least bit happy here. 

And you are both completely stuck because neither of you are taking any definitive action to either correct the problems or leave. 

Rocky, you haven't been addressing your ED and lack of ability to take care of your wife.

And Princess you're spending your time being a keyboard warrior with some dude that can't even breathe heavy halfway across the country that you used to get it on with in the past. At least if you picked up dudes in the local tavern you'd be having actual sex in the real world. 

You're both stuck in a rut and you're both just spinning your wheels and you're both miserable.

But hey, you at least have something in common right?

So why not work together and find solutions so that you can both be happy and lead healthy and productive lives

You can both go to Sex Camp together and learn to function sexually together so you can each push each other's buttons properly.

Or you can work together for an amicable and cooperative divorce so you each can move on to find someone that you are more compatible with and get on better with. 

Either of those solutions is valid. But what y'all got going on now obviously ain't working.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

@Princess_Kate

So your answer to a sexless marriage is a sexless affair? 

If this were really about unmet sexual needs, you'd be having an actual affair or you'd leave to seek out a fulfilling full service relationship.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

To the OP, seek counseling and medical treatment for erection issues. Watch couples videos to see how to seduce and satisfy your wife. She is your priority in your marriage. Figure it out. 

To the OP's wife. Stop making excuses for cheating. You have two options, concentrate on fixing your marriage, or divorce. Cheating is never a viable third option. As long as the OM is getting some of your love, you are holding back from your husband.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

@Princess_Kate:
@MJJEAN has just stripped away any semblance of justification you may issue for your choices. 

At the root of this situation is a lack of compatibility. While you may think it okay to love (and show love) for both men, your husband does not see marriage that way. I think you know this as you have kept this secret for a very long time. This is why I struggle to buy in to your justification, in addition to @MJJEAN's post. 

Conversely, there is clearly sexual incompatibility as well. 

Either way, you two are not compatible. The OP needs a low sex marriage and you need one without the expectation of only two in your relationship.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ooh... BS and WS in the same thread?!?

I'll get the popcorn!


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## pbj2016 (May 7, 2017)

Put a fork in it because this marriage was done a long time ago. 

Any man that won't get help for a correctable issue doesn't deserve the respect of his partner. She clearly doesn't respect him. 

I don't condone cheating but I think I side with @Princess_Kate. She is filling an emotional need purposely left wide open by her husband because he is half the man he needs to be. His wife isn't asking for perfection or live up to some unrealistic expectation.

The erection issue probably can be solved. Have the dr check for causes like lowT (don't just reach for the viagra but see if there is an underlying cause). The education issue most definitely can be solved. That is just plain laziness if OP can't be bothered to learn what his partner needs. 

OP stop replacing your wife with porn and ED issues. OP's wife stop replacing your husband with a unavailable man.

If either one of your refuse to change then there is no chance of starting this marriage over. You can't save it because it is already done for.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

They're both living in Lah Lah Land and both equally disordered. 

He's spanking to porn and can't (or won't) get it up for her and won't take care of her needs.

And she is living in Dreamland and having a fantasy affair with some fat, falling apart guy across the country that won't leave his wife.

They both need to grow a pair testicles for him and ovaries for her) and step up to the plate and do something. 

He's whining because she facebooks some old flame while he's spent after spanking to porn.

And she's keyboarding some old BF across the country who probably can't get it up any better than her H.

At least if she were picking up dudes at the bar she'd be having a real affair. 

And if he were laying the lumber to her the way the good Lord intended, then he'd have a leg to stand in in his anger over her cyber chatting with some old flame. 

Both of 'em need to crap or get off the pot.


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## Wife5362 (Oct 30, 2013)

@Princess_Kate
If he was your first love and you still had residual feelings for him, why didn't thar relationship work out? Why would he need your support for medical issues? He needs to focus on his sick wife and his own recovery. I hope your husband contacts his wife to let her in on the status of his affair with you. She needs to know what's happening.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@Princess_Kate You are responsible for your own orgasm. Saying you haven't been wooed or romanced sufficiently isn't really any excuse for not having good sex.

Many, many men here would love for their spouses to even initiate sex, much less be responsible 100% for arousing them. TAM members always point out that this is unrealistic to expect - and to "get past it". So I'm giving you the same advice. 

Read erotic literature or watch a movie or erotic women's porn. That's what you're doing anyway with this fantasy relationship you're carrying on with. Instead of destroying your marriage by giving your lust and affection to another man, get aroused with anonymous literature and direct it at your husband

It is very easy for a man to lose an erection when a woman shows stress, anxiety, resentment, contempt, or many other responses. My w found PIV very painful and I could not maintain an erection when I saw the distress even though she encouraged sex and tried to hide her discomfort. The loss of erection caused more distress in her expression and it was a bad cycle. Did I blame her or did she blame me? No! I just took responsibility for myself, knowing my w wanted to proceed and work through the problem. I don't sense that you are that encouraging. It was needed for me (and her) to keep raising the flag pole to succeed. Once we dealt with her discomfort more (through more sex not less) my "problem" disappeared. It was very short lived

OP you also have an obligation to work on improving your erection. Ironically porn helped me but I looked and did not masturbate to it. The difference is that I knew (through discussion) that we would be having sex, so I could confidently not masturbate and not end up frustrated. Look up no fap for this or your future relationship 

Both of you need to openly discuss sex and agree to have it - good or bad - 3 to 4 times a week for a few months. Each should take responsibility for yourself - w arouses herself and h finds a happy place to go to get and stay hard. Focus on encouraging each other rather than resenting each other. This is highly correctable. The EA - IDK if that is but you both have to choose each other as #1 if you want any chance of success 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Princess Kate, 

I agree you have a martial issues, that lies with Ricky, and clearly if he has a wife who is a willing sexual partner why turn to porn, but he he is a novice it sounds like when it comes to sex and needs perhaps help in that arena....now that said, then you married your husband you devoted your focus on your marriage, on him and on yourself....not on another man...i think your are fooling yourself, rocky and us, by staying you have enough love for the both of them...you are being disingenuous, when you your telling us about how limited you in contact with this OM. I would ask you to see this from a different perspective, would you be okay with Rocky taking the time away from your marriage to be with his first love....you may say yes but i suspect you are kidding yourself....honestly do him a favor and leave him and at least he cane find someone who he can have 100%....you can't be a part time wife....shame on you


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

Wife5362 said:


> @Princess_Kate
> If he was your first love and you still had residual feelings for him, why didn't thar relationship work out? Why would he need your support for medical issues? He needs to focus on his sick wife and his own recovery. I hope your husband contacts his wife to let her in on the status of his affair with you. She needs to know what's happening.


What a (insert what I'd like to say but am probably not allowed) you are. He was my first love when I was 14. Read up (if you CAN read) on how powerful that bond can be. Not for everyone, but it sure was for us. And not that I feel much need to justify this, but his parents got divorced and he had to move. Neither set of parents supported our relationship because what parents care about teenage relationships? There was no internet or texting back then, so that was it. I can't even believe I had to explain that.

Let's do the calculus, shall we? 14 years old. High school and college to finish. Job and then grad school. Unless you're from the hollers, 14 year olds don't generally marry their boyfriends.

And while we're at it, he didn't NEED me to support him regarding his medical issues. He received a figurative kick in the gut by getting a terrible diagnosis, and his wife is too whacked out on fentanyl and oxy to cook, clean, take the trash out, etc., much less give a rat's behind about HIS illness because she has HER illness. She's never going to recover, for reasons too numerous to get into here, and HE'S been taking care of HER for years. She can't or won't return the favor. He gets a little happiness chatting with me, and I'm capable of showing some sympathy.

So everyone can STFU about my husband's whiny post about being emotionally betrayed. He caught me telling a very, very, dear friend that I loved him. Do I still fantasize about him? You better believe it. We never got to do "the deed" and since I'm not getting anything on the home front, it's easy to imagine us finding a way to hook up. OMG.

You people clearly don't understand complexity and truth.

Signing off for good.

Yours,
Princess_Kate


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Imagine if people put this much energy into their marriages as they do their side dramas, and fantasy affairs. 

It has nothing to do with complexity, it has to do with character.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Princess_Kate said:


> What a (insert what I'd like to say but am probably not allowed) you are. He was my first love when I was 14. Read up (if you CAN read) on how powerful that bond can be. Not for everyone, but it sure was for us. And not that I feel much need to justify this, but his parents got divorced and he had to move. Neither set of parents supported our relationship because what parents care about teenage relationships? There was no internet or texting back then, so that was it. I can't even believe I had to explain that.
> 
> Let's do the calculus, shall we? 14 years old. High school and college to finish. Job and then grad school. Unless you're from the hollers, 14 year olds don't generally marry their boyfriends.
> 
> ...


 @Princess_Kate we understand a great deal more than you might think.










It might look pretty, but it still stinks.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Princess_Kate said:


> So everyone can STFU about my husband's whiny post about being emotionally betrayed. He caught me telling a very, very, dear friend that I loved him. Do I still fantasize about him? You better believe it. We never got to do "the deed" and since I'm not getting anything on the home front, it's easy to imagine us finding a way to hook up. OMG.
> 
> You people clearly don't understand complexity and truth.
> 
> ...


This says it all! Indeed, a PRINCESS!!!


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Me thinks the lady protest to much....rocky kick her ass to the curb.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @Princess_Kate You are responsible for your own orgasm. Saying you haven't been wooed or romanced sufficiently isn't really any excuse for not having good sex.


Are you suggesting that a woman should masturbate before or after sex with her husband so that she can have orgasms? Are you really implying that when a woman has sex with her partner, she should not expect him to do anything to help her have an orgasm? 

From what I read that the PK wrote, her husband does nothing, nada, zilch... they have had successful sex seldom since married. Surely he has some responsibility here too.

Why would a woman even bother having sex with a man if she is only there for him to use to get off? 



TheTruthHurts said:


> [
> Many, many men here would love for their spouses to even initiate sex, much less be responsible 100% for arousing them. TAM members always point out that this is unrealistic to expect - and to "get past it". So I'm giving you the same advice.
> 
> Read erotic literature or watch a movie or erotic women's porn. That's what you're doing anyway with this fantasy relationship you're carrying on with. Instead of destroying your marriage by giving your lust and affection to another man, get aroused with anonymous literature and direct it at your husband
> ...


Successful sex is apparently very rare in their marriage. There is a problem and it's not all her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Princess_Kate said:


> What a (insert what I'd like to say but am probably not allowed) you are. He was my first love when I was 14. Read up (if you CAN read) on how powerful that bond can be. Not for everyone, but it sure was for us. And not that I feel much need to justify this, but his parents got divorced and he had to move. Neither set of parents supported our relationship because what parents care about teenage relationships? There was no internet or texting back then, so that was it. I can't even believe I had to explain that.
> 
> Let's do the calculus, shall we? 14 years old. High school and college to finish. Job and then grad school. Unless you're from the hollers, 14 year olds don't generally marry their boyfriends.
> 
> ...


Kate, 

If you are going to post here, you need to change your tone. 

I see that you have real issues of concern in your marriage. But you are not going to get anywhere going at people like this.

One thing you need to realize is that this forum is full of people whose spouse has cheated on them and tore their lives and families apart. So your husband came here and only gave his side of the story. That happens often. Less angry posts from you could help to let us know all sides of your story.

Personally, I don't get why you would stay married to man who prefer porn to having sex with you. Is it really worth staying?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I just cleaned up a thread jack. Let's remember that it's against forum rules to imply/call posters a troll. If you have concerns about a thread, use the report button and report the thread/poster.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Personally, I don't get why you would stay married to man who prefer porn to having sex with you. Is it really worth staying?


 After reading her posts ,I think it's self explanatory why he would choose porn over her. He may also choose being a monk.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Princess_Kate said:


> I married him because he has a lot of wonderful qualities, and I honestly thought we could work on the sex thing. On that, I was very wrong. For a long time, he wouldn't even talk about it. When he got over that (slightly), any suggestion I would make he took extremely literally. He has always depended on porn to get off. I'm not a child - I understand the attraction to porn and I've never objected to him watching it. I did, however, point out that it was likely getting in the way of having a healthy, genuine sex life. He agrees, but hasn't made any changes.
> 
> What I would have liked is for him to research how to create a genuinely erotic experience for me. I don't know what's out there for men, but I'm sick of having to hold his hand.
> 
> ...


Aw you poor thing, first love blah blah blah. For God's sake, grow up and act like the bloody adult you are. If there are issues in the marriage, be an adult and seek proper counselling, not run to another man.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Kate,

You say that you can love two men at one time. I think that is true. A lot of people can love more than one person.

But that is not really the issue here. The issue is what is your husband willing to live with, because he has the right to decide that for himself. And apparently he is not ok with his wife having an emotional affair with another man. 

He also has the right to ask you to stop your EA and start working on repairing your marriage. And he has the right to divorce you if you will not do that.

I have some questions for you.

How do you know that the OM's wife is actually as ill as he says she is? When my husband was having his affairs, he told women that he was not even married. People who have affairs lie all the time.

How do you know that he actually has the illness that he tells you he has?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rubix Cubed said:


> After reading her posts ,I think it's self explanatory why he would choose porn over her. He may also choose being a monk.


I wish that they would both return. We seldom get to read both sides of a situation like this. 

While she is clearly not a saint, I can understand why she would get pretty angry about what she read on this thread. There are some pretty inflammatory posts here and they probably shocked her on her first reading them.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I wish that they would both return. We seldom get to read both sides of a situation like this.
> 
> 
> 
> While she is clearly not a saint, I can understand why she would get pretty angry about what she read on this thread. There are some pretty inflammatory posts here and they probably shocked her on her first reading them.




That's where you and I disagree. I see it as 100% on her for having an EA. If she was unhappy with her sex life and couldn't resolve it and couldn't get counseling and it was that important - then she obviously should have left before betraying him. Any other excuse is blame shifting

Regarding op there are many posts her suggesting things in his court.

Her most recent post seals the deal IMO - she is unrepentant, has no respect for her H, and is completely entitled in her attitude. A true "cheater mentality"

I'd say move on OP - this is not the type of person you should subject yourself to, and I wouldn't be able to get it up for her either (which is definitely not a problem with my w).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> That's where you and I disagree. I see it as 100% on her for having an EA. If she was unhappy with her sex life and couldn't resolve it and couldn't get counseling and it was that important - then she obviously should have left before betraying him. Any other excuse is blame shifting


You clearly have no idea what I think. 



TheTruthHurts said:


> Regarding op there are many posts her suggesting things in his court
> 
> Her most recent post seals the deal IMO - she is unrepentant, has no respect for her H, and is completely entitled in her attitude. A true "cheater mentality
> 
> I'd say move on OP - this is not the type of person you should subject yourself to, and I wouldn't be able to get it up for her either (which is definitely not a problem with my w).


I agree that she is wrong to be carrying on an online/phone relationship with some guy she knew when she was a child. As I stated to her, he has the right to not want to stay in a marriage with a women who is carrying on a long, open EA. This is something that she does not quite seem to realize, or at least is ignoring.

On the topic of their sex life, or lack there of, until they both return and provide more info it looks pretty bad. Apparently he could not get it up for her even in the beginning when they were dating. So why did he marry a woman that he had little to no sexual interest in. Or is it that he has little to no sexual interest in any woman and prefers porn? That's what it's sounding like.

She should not have married a man who has little to no interest in having sex with a live woman. And he should not have married a woman at all. Or he should have done something to fix his problem.

Sounds to me like a marriage that was doomed from the start. And I think that both of them have good reason to file for divorce. But so far, neither of them is making that move. I wonder why?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Then our work here is done. :>)


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Princess_Kate said:


> I certainly didn't expect that there would be any responses to such an old thread. But that retarded question about why my first love relationship didn't work out really annoyed me.


The thread is not all that old, we have threads here that are active for months, even years.

How was the person who asked the question supposed to know how the relationship ended and why you were not still with that 'true love' of yours? That's why the question was asked... to find out more info.



Princess_Kate said:


> Regarding my tone - I don't recognize tone police.


You do have a pretty mean spirited attitude. We don't care if you recognize "tone police". You were warned. 



Princess_Kate said:


> OM is special to me. Beyond special. Agreed, the timing is terrible. Our timing has always been terrible. But talking on the phone, with 98% of the content being normal chat - I think "Rocky" is completely overreacting. Do OM and I have a plan? We would love to have a concrete plan.


What is the other 2%? 

So are you planning on leaving Rocky for the OM? That statement sure sounds like it. Does Rocky know this plan.

At some point Rocky is going to wake up and find out that in your marriage, you are not the only person who has choices. 



Princess_Kate said:


> Oh, and to the person who asked how I knew he was telling the truth? I've known the guy for 38 years. I know his siblings. I talk to one of his siblings - we spent a year of high school together. He's not a stranger I met online. JFC.


A year in high school???? Really? That's the entire basis of this high school crush you are still carrying on? You are not there to know if he is telling you the truth. Oh well.



Princess_Kate said:


> I'm really sorry that some of you have had your marriages destroyed. But I'm not taking on that bag of donuts. It's not my situation, and "Rocky" wishes he had never posted here. He thinks the advice he got was psychotic.


Clearly your marriage is in shambles. Your husband is on the verge of leaving you, though you don't seem to recognize that. 

Yes, he though that they were so 'psychotic' that he was right in there with them.

And, where is Rocky? Can't he talk for himself? Or are you now not allowing him to come here? You get to have your relationship with another man, but he cannot have a place on the internet to talk to other people? Pretty controlling of you to try to control who he talks to, especially after you go on about how you should be allowed to have a online affair with another man.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Princess_Kate said:


> There are a lot more sexless marriages out there than people think. Google is your friend.


Yea, we know that about 20% of marriages are sexless. We also know that men chose to make their marriages sexless just as often as women do. You might want to take a look at the resources linked in this below thread. They are specifically for women whose husband choses to make the marriage sexless. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/350970-sex-starved-wife.html





Princess_Kate said:


> Sex is not the end-all be-all, and I find it laughable that anyone thinks that getting divorced over sex makes any sense.
> 
> Divorce is one of the most economically catastrophic choices a couple can make. If "Rocky" had a physical affair, I wouldn't automatically divorce him. We've talked about this, and he's the one who brought up the economics of that decision.


Well, if you are not smart enough to be financially independent and structure your finances in a way to protect both of you, yea, divorce can be financially devastating. But not all of us are that stupid.

If you and Rocky are ok with an open marriage, then why was he here to start with? Did you hear that Rocky? She just gave you the OK to cheat. Why not go for it? I get the feeling, from his own posts, the Rocky is not ok with an open marriage.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> The thread is not all that old, we have threads here that are active for months, even years.
> 
> How was the person who asked the question supposed to know how the relationship ended and why you were not still with that 'true love' of yours? That's why the question was asked... to find out more info.
> 
> ...



I don't know, after reading the thread i get the feeling that Rocky hasn't come back because he lied through his teeth about why they don't have a sex life in order to make himself look better. If he comes back he'll have to deal with that. 

And an open marriage wouldn't be good for a guy who can only get it up for porn and isn't much interested in changing that. 

I agree that Kate's solution is ridiculous though and they either need to come to an agreement to deal with the sex issue or divorce amicably.

He's got to deal with it whether he leaves her or not because what kind of relationship is he going to be able to have if porn is his primary sexual partner?

As for exposure, I have mixed feelings about exposing in general but in this case he'd better be careful. By all means tell the om's wife but beyond that he'd better be prepared for the possibility that if he wants to start exposing she may also expose the fact that he gets off to porn and can't keep it up for his wife. Exposure can work both ways.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't know, after reading the thread i get the feeling that Rocky hasn't come back because he lied through his teeth about why they don't have a sex life in order to make himself look better. If he comes back he'll have to deal with that.


I agree that this could be a reason why Rocky has not returned.

The sad thing is that a good sex therapist has methods that he can use to fix this is just a month or two. The first step is making an appointment and showing up.

There is a lot of info on the internet about it too... here is a good website for him to start with: https://yourbrainonporn.com/



lifeistooshort said:


> And an open marriage wouldn't be good for a guy who can only get it up for porn and isn't much interested in changing that.
> 
> I agree that Kate's solution is ridiculous though and they either need to come to an agreement to deal with the sex issue or divorce amicably.
> 
> ...


Again, I agree with all of the above. We don't often get both sides of the story. And it's often quite an eye opener when we do.


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## Dannip (Jun 13, 2017)

Best way to avoid seeing a sex therapist: Have a lot of sex.


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## Wife5362 (Oct 30, 2013)

Princess_Kate said:


> I certainly didn't expect that there would be any responses to such an old thread. But that retarded question about why my first love relationship didn't work out really annoyed me.
> 
> Regarding my tone - I don't recognize tone police.
> 
> ...


Someone please explain why this person has not been banned. Is it OK on this site for people to use the tone she uses? Is it acceptable to be warned about tone and in response come back even more beligerant? Is is alright to respond distespectfully to the warning saying, "Regarding my tone - I don't recognize tone police." Do the moderators feel it is OK to spout off the opinion that a question is "retarded?" Are posters allowed to insult a poster (questioning their reading ability)?

Really, what does it take to get banned? I'd like to know before replying to the Princess's response to my "retarded" question.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

Wife5362 said:


> Someone please explain why this person has not been banned. Is it OK on this site for people to use the tone she uses? Is it acceptable to be warned about tone and in response come back even more beligerant? Is is alright to respond distespectfully to the warning saying, "Regarding my tone - I don't recognize tone police." Do the moderators feel it is OK to spout off the opinion that a question is "retarded?" Are posters allowed to insult a poster (questioning their reading ability)?
> 
> Really, what does it take to get banned? I'd like to know before replying to the Princess's response to my "retarded" question.


If the mods want to ban me, by all means - go for it.

But don't play innocent here, little girl. (You must be to be this delicate on a forum on the internet). You were just piling on, and you know it.

Someone here had it right. I think it was one of the mods. My husband posted here in a moment of weakness, and the mountain of sh*t that was said about me was effing shocking. My husband left out key issues regarding our marriage, I tried to straighten them out, and it was an impossible task. 

I should know better. I'm now retrieving the lessons learned from fighting with people on the internet when most of you were teenagers. Trying to reason with you people is like getting pecked to death by ducks.

If you want to continue to hear the other side of the story, I'm ready.

If you want to ban me because a special snowflake got her feelings hurt due to my frank and direct writing style, I might consider it a kindness after all of the sh*t that's been flung at me.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I find it interesting that you say people are not handling well your direct communication style...while mildly insulting another for their direct communication style.

In the meantime, you will find that two key things are stopping you from hearing what people here are saying to you:

1. You are spending plenty of time in the victim chair.

Sure, your marriage may be less than desirable. However, unless you are in a 3rd world country or a theocracy, you have options. 

2. Point that high powered perception at yourself.

If you judged yourself as harshly as your husband or those on this forum, you would realize how much work you have to do on and for yourself.

Good luck.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Princess_Kate said:


> OM is special to me. Beyond special. Agreed, the timing is terrible. Our timing has always been terrible. But talking on the phone, with 98% of the content being normal chat - I think "Rocky" is completely overreacting. Do OM and I have a plan? We would love to have a concrete plan.


What exactly is stopping you from moving forward with developing a concrete one?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Princess Kate,

One thing you said which is inaccurate is something like "that the people who post here do not understand the hold a first love has on a persons affection".

I'm not sure if that is fair as many people here have had to deal with spouses who fell back in love with Ex'es of many descriptions who were there before they were. Their spouses reconnect with those ex'es very deeply I think partially because their memories with them are memories of a younger and happier time in their life. 

We also understand the feelings of being undesired, worthless and unloved that a low sex or unromantic marriage causes a person to feel. Personally it's now sexier to watch kissing in a movie than sex because some of those scenes appear to have real passion which arouses great envy in me. 

Tamat


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Princess_Kate said:


> If you want to continue to hear the other side of the story, I'm ready.


I've heard you talk about your marital issues. I've heard you talk about what's wrong with your husband. I've heard you attempt to justify and minimize your "EA", if that's all it is. That appears to be the basis of "your side of the story".

But here's what I haven't heard.

- One shred of regret that you cheated on your husband, let alone remorse.

- Any inclination of understanding the hurt you have caused him.

- A commitment to end contact with your boyfriend.

That's probably why you haven't been all that "well received" on a board that helps people cope with a spouse's infidelity.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Hopefully this thread will end their sham of a marriage and give them the courage to start a new life with someone that actually loves and desires them. Good grief, life is too short to stay married to someone that hates you and won't **** you.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

i am guessing that rocky is not allowed to come back, otherwise princess kate will have both his heads. ;-)


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> What exactly is stopping you from moving forward with developing a concrete one?


 Rocky's money. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> They're both living in Lah Lah Land and both equally disordered.
> 
> He's spanking to porn and can't (or won't) get it up for her and won't take care of her needs.
> 
> ...


I am super curious as to how or why you jumped to the conclusion that OM is a "fat, falling apart guy who won't leave his wife, and that he probably can't get it up better than my husband".


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> This is so true. Not being intimate for an extended period is a sure fire way for one spouse or the other to search out and find validation and later intimacy with someone else.
> 
> OK, on the psychological issue? Was it childhood sexual abuse or rape at a later time?
> 
> ...


I'm not a piece of property. I don't need to be taken to a doctor by any man to be "checked out". He lied, as I have stated earlier. I'm not the one with the sexual dysfunction. I'm quite certain that if he had told the truth about that, at least a few of the participants here would have had a few more suggestions for him instead of suggesting that I'm the problem.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

OnTheRocks said:


> Drive by poster, evidently. Move along now.
> 
> I wish I'd had the level of proof he has. It would've made my decision a lot easier.
> 
> EXPOSE TO EVERYONE.


Actually, this poster was OM. Someone had mentioned earlier (or mentions later) that it would be interesting to see the perspectives of both the BS AND WS. OM would have been an interesting addition as well, but since this group has a penchant for jumping to conclusions - opportunity missed.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> I agree.
> 
> Both of you are beating your heads into walls and saying it's just a headache.
> 
> ...


OM and I have never gotten it on. Ever. 

And the idea of BS and me going to Sex Camp? He would NEVER! OMG. Laughing. So. Hard. Can't Breathe.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> @Princess_Kate
> 
> So your answer to a sexless marriage is a sexless affair?
> 
> If this were really about unmet sexual needs, you'd be having an actual affair or you'd leave to seek out a fulfilling full service relationship.


I never said this was about unmet sexual needs. I was merely pointing out that BS lied straight out of the gate as to why we have a sexless marriage.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @Princess_Kate You are responsible for your own orgasm. Saying you haven't been wooed or romanced sufficiently isn't really any excuse for not having good sex.
> 
> Many, many men here would love for their spouses to even initiate sex, much less be responsible 100% for arousing them. TAM members always point out that this is unrealistic to expect - and to "get past it". So I'm giving you the same advice.
> 
> ...


This may be the best response yet. Thank you.

I am quite competent at providing myself with my own orgasm. I've had to be. He's been wooed plenty. His excuses range from "he's not sufficiently recharged from his last fap session" to "it's not right to have sex on Sunday morning", to "I'm not showing you what porn I like", to "OK, I'll accept a blow job, but I won't make any effort to reciprocate in any way", to "we can't have sex AT ALL because you're pregnant and there's a baby in there." (He got it together exactly once). 

And just so we leave no stone unturned, I swallow, I know how to keep my teeth a good distance from a man's parts unless he finds the ever so slight sensation of teeth enjoyable, and I love PIV.

While I understand that some people have a need to give earnest advice, Rocky's ED won't go away because Rocky doesn't want to work on it. Period.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Are you suggesting that a woman should masturbate before or after sex with her husband so that she can have orgasms? Are you really implying that when a woman has sex with her partner, she should not expect him to do anything to help her have an orgasm?
> 
> From what I read that the PK wrote, her husband does nothing, nada, zilch... they have had successful sex seldom since married. Surely he has some responsibility here too.
> 
> ...


There is a problem and it is not at ALL me. To quote "Rocky": He's messed up. It happened long before I entered the picture. He told me he posted here. He showed me his post! I read it and asked him straight up why he lied about who was the problem. He's not dumb. He knew exactly what he was doing to garner the most sympathy. He admitted it.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> I wish that they would both return. We seldom get to read both sides of a situation like this.
> 
> While she is clearly not a saint, I can understand why she would get pretty angry about what she read on this thread. There are some pretty inflammatory posts here and they probably shocked her on her first reading them.


Quite. And yet when I did return, I didn't have the voice of an angel the way I was apparently supposed to have. I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect to have it both ways.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> The thread is not all that old, we have threads here that are active for months, even years.
> 
> How was the person who asked the question supposed to know how the relationship ended and why you were not still with that 'true love' of yours? That's why the question was asked... to find out more info.
> 
> ...


It's his brother I went to school with for a year. Not him. OM and I were together barely any time at all. But we fell hard for each other. It happens. Read some of Nancy Kalish's work.

Rocky is free to comment whenever he likes. I have no control over that, nor do I want to. He's also not on the verge of leaving me. He never posted that. He's never said that.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Kate,
> 
> You say that you can love two men at one time. I think that is true. A lot of people can love more than one person.
> 
> ...


I know her name. Her Twitter bio talks about it. She contacted me and gave me the whole story. She's known about me for probably 20 years. Her brother-in-law and I are good friends. Her sister-in-law and I are friends on FB. We all grew up within 30 miles of each other, sometimes closer.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Princess_Kate said:


> OnTheRocks said:
> 
> 
> > Drive by poster, evidently. Move along now.
> ...


Which poster is OM? :scratchhead:


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't know, after reading the thread i get the feeling that Rocky hasn't come back because he lied through his teeth about why they don't have a sex life in order to make himself look better. If he comes back he'll have to deal with that.
> 
> And an open marriage wouldn't be good for a guy who can only get it up for porn and isn't much interested in changing that.
> 
> ...


Bingo, LifeIsTooShort. Rocky did lie. If he had told the truth in the first place, I wouldn't have anything to say, would I?


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> What exactly is stopping you from moving forward with developing a concrete one?


We both have complicated lives.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Kate,

What are you goals for posting here on TAM?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Princess_Kate said:


> This may be the best response yet. Thank you.
> 
> I am quite competent at providing myself with my own orgasm. I've had to be. He's been wooed plenty. His excuses range from "he's not sufficiently recharged from his last fap session" to "it's not right to have sex on Sunday morning", to "I'm not showing you what porn I like", to "OK, I'll accept a blow job, but I won't make any effort to reciprocate in any way", to "we can't have sex AT ALL because you're pregnant and there's a baby in there." (He got it together exactly once).
> 
> ...


Princess Kate, why stay married. Go get a divorce, it will make you happy and Rocky happy, problem solved. He can enjoy his sexless life and you can enjoy limitless sex.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

TAMAT said:


> Princess Kate,
> 
> One thing you said which is inaccurate is something like "that the people who post here do not understand the hold a first love has on a persons affection".
> 
> ...


Not inaccurate. Read up on Nancy Kalish's work. We're not talking about the same thing.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

badmemory said:


> I've heard you talk about your marital issues. I've heard you talk about what's wrong with your husband. I've heard you attempt to justify and minimize your "EA", if that's all it is. That appears to be the basis of "your side of the story".
> 
> But here's what I haven't heard.
> 
> ...


I honestly don't feel I owe you that. I don't know you. That's between me and my husband.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Rocky's money. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


ROCKY'S MONEY????????

Mods, this reeks of misogyny! Seriously?


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Which poster is OM? :scratchhead:


You ran him off. Maybe not you personally, but someone decided he was a troll and *poof*!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Princess_Kate said:


> ROCKY'S MONEY????????
> 
> Mods, this reeks of misogyny! Seriously?


Actually you stated that Rocky said that finances are a big reason that he is not filing for divorce. So apparently Rocky's money means a lot of Rocky.

And yes, assuming that you are staying with Rocky because of his money is a sexist stereo type.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Princess_Kate said:


> You ran him off. Maybe not you personally, but someone decided he was a troll and *poof*!


I asked specifically which of the posters on this thread is the OM? I did not see any poster, except Rocky himself, with only one or two posts.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Princess_Kate said:


> You ran him off. Maybe not you personally, but someone decided he was a troll and *poof*!


Is Bohunkbeast the OM?


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Kate,
> 
> What are you goals for posting here on TAM?


Off the top of my head, I have three: 

1. Don't ever take an OP at his or her word. Rocky LIED.

2. Our sexlesss marriage was never the point. The lying and the ridiculous jumping to conclusions irritated me. 

3. Message boards are no way to solve problems. They spin out of control.

If I think of any more, I'll come back. But I've said my piece.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Is Bohunkbeast the OM?


I have no idea.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Actually you stated that Rocky said that finances are a big reason that he is not filing for divorce. So apparently Rocky's money means a lot of Rocky.
> 
> And yes, assuming that you are staying with Rocky because of his money is a sexist stereo type.


No, Rocky said that divorce is one of the most financially catastrophic decisions a couple can make.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Princess_Kate said:


> Off the top of my head, I have three:
> 
> 1. Don't ever take an OP at his or her word. Rocky LIED.


Some OP's do tell the truth. Some lie. We know this. Cannot teach people something that they already know.



Princess_Kate said:


> 2. Our sexlesss marriage was never the point. The lying and the ridiculous jumping to conclusions irritated me.


The lying is on your husband. But what you see in his lying is what is going on in his head. What he posted here is what he believes is true. Apparently he does not think that the sexless marriage is an issue. He has no problem with it at all. That's pretty clear. It's also pretty clear that he has a huge problem with your relationship with OM. But you do not care that he has a big problem with your EA. So maybe you are both even, you both don't care about each others feelings & needs on some very important things.

Yea, the jumping to conclusions gets out of hand often. But this is a public forum. So the OP has the sift through the responses and decide which posts are relevant.



Princess_Kate said:


> 3. Message boards are no way to solve problems. They spin out of control.


Actually, some people have been able to solve problems based on this input they get from TAM. If it does not work for you, that's fine. 



Princess_Kate said:


> If I think of any more, I'll come back. But I've said my piece.


ok


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Princess_Kate said:


> I have no idea.


You said that the OM posted here and was driven away because people thought he was a troll. I'm asking your what his user name is so I can see what happened.


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## Drumstick (Mar 18, 2017)

PK,

I'm sorry that Rocky has sexual issues. He needs to solve these.

You, on the other hand, admit to having an emotional affair. Its effect on the state of your marriage is just as bad. So, stop trying to blameshift the state of your marriage; you are as culpable as Rocky.

Also, stop attempting to justify your affair with pangs of "lost love," and Nancy Kalish's observations regarding the same. It smacks of immaturity. Don't you have any agency?

Instead, pick up a copy of Shirley Glass' "Not Just Friends." It'll help you comprehend how your "friendship" is negatively affecting your marriage.

Grow up, snowflake.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

Drumstick said:


> PK,
> 
> I'm sorry that Rocky has sexual issues. He needs to solve these.
> 
> ...


I completely disagree. 12 years of not just a sexlessless marriage, but him not caring about it nor doing anything about it is > than 6 months of mostly harmless conversation. I'm trying to preserve a little of his dignity, here, so maybe stop pushing so much. 

I'm not a monster.


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> You said that the OM posted here and was driven away because people thought he was a troll. I'm asking your what his user name is so I can see what happened.


I appreciate that you're trying to dig into this. I'm sorry, but I just dont know. I've been on message boards for almost 20 years. Him, not so much. Maybe he thought he could post anonymously and failed - that seems a more likely scenario than him getting the boot.

But he probably doesn't know any better, and it's not worth it to me to break the NC agreement to dig deeper. 

K?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Princess_Kate said:


> I appreciate that you're trying to dig into this. I'm sorry, but I just dont know. I've been on message boards for almost 20 years. Him, not so much. Maybe he thought he could post anonymously and failed - that seems a more likely scenario than him getting the boot.
> 
> But he probably doesn't know any better, and it's not worth it to me to break the NC agreement to dig deeper.
> 
> K?


You now have a NC agreement... good move if you want to save your marriage.

So, your claim that the OP was chased away because he was ID'd as a troll is not necessarily so.


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## Drumstick (Mar 18, 2017)

Princess_Kate said:


> I completely disagree. 12 years of not just a sexlessless marriage, but him not caring about it nor doing anything about it is > than 6 months of mostly harmless conversation. I'm trying to preserve a little of his dignity, here, so maybe stop pushing so much.
> 
> I'm not a monster.


PK,

Oh, so you're going to play the x > y game, huh? Grow up, little girl.

Your 6 month emotional affair is just as harmful as "12 years of not just a sexless marriage, but him not caring about it nor doing anything about it." Own your ****. The state of your marriage is in disrepair due to each of your selfish actions.

Moreover, stop trying to minimize the effect of your "6 months of mostly harmless conversation." It was an affair. If your "mostly harmless conversation" with your affair partner had no negative effect on your marriage, why was Rocky here looking for advice? Res ipsa loquitor, right?

I understand that you're frustrated, and angry. But that doesn't abdicate your responsibility for the state of your marriage. You need to own your fu.kups as much as Rocky needs to own his. If this situation cannot be resolved in a reasonable timeframe, then both of you need to put your adult pants on and separate.

As far as Rocky is concerned... none of what I said before had anything to do with his dignity. I think the reason you want me to stop pushing is because I'm calling you out on the fact that you need to grow up, and own your affair. So, instead of openly admitting that, you ask that I not call you out by couching it in the terms of trying to save Rocky some face. You're pretty easy to see through. I've walked through bull**** much deeper than yours, snowflake.

DS

P.S. If you don't like my directness, or calling you snowflake... I'll just point you to one of your first comments wherein you stated that you were just a direct person and called another contributor snowflake. What is good for the goose, is good for the gander, right?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Princess Kate,

You wrote, *3. Message boards are no way to solve problems. They spin out of control.*

Actually they are if you can learn to ignore the posters who use emotionally charged language and name call, and read what is worthwhile on here. It's also the variety of responses you get that help, often times, at least for me, one post will ring true and aid me to make a decision or understand better. 

Sometimes a post which I have immediately rejected provides an insight I don't recognize until some time later.

Read "his needs her need" , "fall in love stay in love" and "surviving an affair" all by Dr Willard Harley

Tamat


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## Princess_Kate (Jul 9, 2017)

Drumstick said:


> PK,
> 
> Oh, so you're going to play the x > y game, huh? Grow up, little girl.
> 
> ...


OK, how's this? After 12 years of nothing, I get woken up in the middle of the night, with my shirt pulled up, and him having a wank all over me. Why? He thought I'd enjoy something "new" and he had "saved up" for me. He's lucky I didn't call the police. 

So you go right ahead and tell me that talking on the phone is anywhere near as degrading and disgusting as that. No consent, it took so little time I barely had time to react, which is good, because I would have punched him in the balls.

And if you think I "deserved" that after "what I'd done", he had plenty of time before the night before last to prove his point.

Furthermore, if you decide to weigh in any further, I'd suggest that the mods of this site take note of your ISP. Who knows what else you approve of because a woman dared to challenge your manhood.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Anyone got any extra popcorn? I'm all out


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Princess_Kate said:


> OK, how's this? After 12 years of nothing, I get woken up in the middle of the night, with my shirt pulled up, and him having a wank all over me. Why? He thought I'd enjoy something "new" and he had "saved up" for me. He's lucky I didn't call the police.
> 
> So you go right ahead and tell me that talking on the phone is anywhere near as degrading and disgusting as that. No consent, it took so little time I barely had time to react, which is good, because I would have punched him in the balls.
> 
> ...


Oh I agree with you. The years of a lack of sex life, and then this gem, is not at all equivalent to just talking over the phone. IMHO, you should have left him a long time ago over the lack of sex.

But you have chosen to stay in the marriage. So you have accepted the lack of sex.


----------



## Drumstick (Mar 18, 2017)

Princess_Kate said:


> OK, how's this? After 12 years of nothing, I get woken up in the middle of the night, with my shirt pulled up, and him having a wank all over me. Why? He thought I'd enjoy something "new" and he had "saved up" for me. He's lucky I didn't call the police.
> 
> So you go right ahead and tell me that talking on the phone is anywhere near as degrading and disgusting as that. No consent, it took so little time I barely had time to react, which is good, because I would have punched him in the balls.
> 
> ...




PK,

I'll weigh in. I'm not scared.

It seems to me you like bullying your way through this thread by being "direct," and calling others names. Further, I have noticed that you've now pulled the misogyny card twice. What if I was to let you know that I'm female?

With that said... if the above is true... it is, hands down, degrading, and disgusting. Nevertheless, deflecting the fact that you had an affair will not solve your marriage problems. OWN YOUR ****! You will not solve your marital issues, assuming there actually are any, by having an affair. If you can't solve the issues you have together, each of you put your adult pants on, and file for divorce. If the above is true, you should have filed for divorce long ago.

As far as degree... you gave something to someone that was supposed to be exclusively his, even if just emotional. You broke the vow you made to him, as well as to yourself. Pretty wretched. Both his actions, and yours, are pretty disgusting.

DS

P.S. I'm not female. Nevertheless, I don't stand down in the face of cheap misogyny threats. If I was actually being misogynistic, I'd agree with you. Instead, most times I see these arguments pulled because the accuser is backed into a corner, and utilizes this as a means to appeal to emotion, rather than logic, in an effort to cheaply gain favor. In the end, people see through it, and it just weakens your position. Moreover, I'd call out a guy that came here and tried to pulling a misandry argument to cull favor. So, don't go there.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Princess_Kate said:


> I'm not a piece of property. I don't need to be taken to a doctor by any man to be "checked out". He lied, as I have stated earlier. I'm not the one with the sexual dysfunction. I'm quite certain that if he had told the truth about that, at least a few of the participants here would have had a few more suggestions for him instead of suggesting that I'm the problem.


you are correct.

You are the problem.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Princess_Kate said:


> I completely disagree. 12 years of not just a sexlessless marriage, but him not caring about it nor doing anything about it is > than 6 months of mostly harmless conversation. I'm trying to preserve a little of his dignity, here, so maybe stop pushing so much.
> 
> I'm not a monster.



No your not a monster but you are a cheater....and one who is rather hubris in their viewpoint...yeah rocky lied, Rocky may have his own crap to own....but so do you...the way you write you seem to justify your actions....if you don't care what we say than why try so hard to make your point. Accept the fact your a cheater.


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## Yasmin (Jul 29, 2017)

Princess_Kate said:


> OK, how's this? After 12 years of nothing, I get woken up in the middle of the night, with my shirt pulled up, and him having a wank all over me. Why? He thought I'd enjoy something "new" and he had "saved up" for me. He's lucky I didn't call the police.
> 
> So you go right ahead and tell me that talking on the phone is anywhere near as degrading and disgusting as that. No consent, it took so little time I barely had time to react, which is good, because I would have punched him in the balls.
> 
> ...


I have tried to sit back and observe your petty diatribes, but OMG people! This is preposterous. You're all strutting about like brainless peacocks while this poor woman has been emotionally and psychologically abused by a trusted partner, and AND NOW RAPED! This is a crime, folks. Wake up. Quit flopping what you believe is clever Latin repartee and snowflake BS and offer substantive advice, or leave a sad situation alone. 

Further, you simply must be similarly delusional to suggest that a psychotropic porn wanker (and I'll bet money a dopamine-craving game addict, as well) has somehow walked a high road.

Get it together, and offer some valuable social-science observations without pouncing all over the true victim here.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Princess_Kate said:


> You people clearly don't understand complexity and truth.


No, we understand A personality, self-serving people who seek their own happiness over another's. You're going NC, so I'll give you that. And I understand the issues in your marriage. But if you deal with him the way you deal with internet strangers who are giving their time to try to help your family, maybe that's half of your problem? And maybe you should just move on and go get the 'one true love' as soon as his wife dies. Or are you just going to have him ramp up his cheating on her so you can be happy?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Princess_Kate said:


> If you want to ban me because a special snowflake got her feelings hurt due to my frank and direct writing style, I might consider it a kindness after all of the sh*t that's been flung at me.


Try rude, condescending, antagonistic, close-minded, and reactive. Frank and direct doesn't quite capture the flavor of your writing and, apparently, your character.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

TAMAT said:


> Princess Kate,
> 
> One thing you said which is inaccurate is something like "that the people who post here do not understand the hold a first love has on a persons affection".
> 
> ...


My brother's sister got contacted by her first love - the one she wasn't allowed to date in high school - and that's all it took. She divorced my brother, took him for everything, and spent all that money on her next husband; her first love. So trust me, we get it. That draw is powerful. Doesn't make it RIGHT.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Princess_Kate said:


> I am super curious as to how or why you jumped to the conclusion that OM is a "fat, falling apart guy who won't leave his wife, and that he probably *can't get it up* better than my husband".


How would YOU know?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Princess_Kate said:


> Quite. And yet when I did return, I didn't have *the voice of an angel* the way I was apparently supposed to have. I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect to have it both ways.


Kate, all we expected was courtesy and not deriding posters. Even this post shows you show contempt for people who don't kiss your ass. Maybe that's one reason your husband has trouble in the bedroom; your A personality has him cowed.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Princess_Kate said:


> I completely disagree. 12 years of not just a sexlessless marriage, but him not caring about it nor doing anything about it is > than 6 months of mostly harmless conversation. I'm trying to preserve a little of his dignity, here, so maybe stop pushing so much.
> 
> I'm not a monster.


No, you just selfishly chose to keep TWO men because both of them make you happy in one way or another. Without regard to how it made THEM feel. If you had, you would have divorced Rocky or given up OM.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Princess_Kate said:


> OK, how's this? After 12 years of nothing, I get woken up in the middle of the night, with my shirt pulled up, and him having a wank all over me. Why? He thought I'd enjoy something "new" and he had "saved up" for me. He's lucky I didn't call the police.
> 
> So you go right ahead and tell me that talking on the phone is anywhere near as degrading and disgusting as that. No consent, it took so little time I barely had time to react, which is good, because I would have punched him in the balls.


If he's such a monster, why don't YOU leave?

btw, I am agreeing with you that he has a serious problem and needs to be in therapy. But 90% of this thread is about you fighting tooth and nail to preserve your image instead of just considering what people are saying.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Princess_Kate said:


> We both have complicated lives.


Life is complicated by our choices and reactions, that is true.

I hear so much anger and disappointment as I read your postings... why not free yourself?

Money?

Things?

Lifestyle?

You have the keys to unlock and end this suffering, why live a contemptuous life with someone who is a spouse on paper alone... the bitterness and resentment you exhale is not doing either of you any good.

I would tell Rocky the same thing...


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