# Intimacy is important to me- am I a bad wife?



## Ittakestwo (Apr 22, 2012)

I am new and a little nervous about posting on this forum. 

I am married to a very kind man and have been for 20+ years. 

We have children High school age thru college age.

We rarely are intimate. We go for months at a time without.

I have talked with him. He was diagnosed with Diabetes a few years back and although it is much less frequent now, it wasn't frequent much before unless i pressed the issue. 

I have asked him if he is not attracted to me... he always says yes and I think about you all the time, I want us to be intimate.

I realize that we now have the issue of ED... but he is not managing his disease in any way so that we can be together.

I feel rejected daily as it is not getting better, he just goes on in life like all is well, even though I have shared with him and talked to him about how he could get some help with this issue and there are things that can be done. 

I am grieved, deeply... I don't believe that a marriage is soley about sex but I do believe that it is a very important part of a marriage and I feel very diconnected from him and don't know how to work through this. He is a master avoider on any issue that he does not want to face reality on... always has been and now i feel cheated in my marriage. I have many good years left to have a healthy intimate relationship with my husband and he is choosing to ignore the issues. 

I'm tired of feeling sad and disconnected and angry that he has chosen to pretend it's all okay.


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## marriedglad (Dec 5, 2011)

You should let out your concerns in front of him. During bed time, close the door and start talking to him about this problem. You have to put all your queries and worries forward and let him know that you feel deprived. As a result, he will either agree to be more intimate with you or as you say, find a way to get out of the situation.

In the latter case, start spending more time. If you guys spend most of the time apart then that is a sign of dying love. You have to rejuvenate it with kindness, care, and respect. Ask for his help when you're doing something and go help him in his matters, dance with him, give him hugs and kisses. All your actions should make him want to spend more and more time with you. In a nutshell, you gotta win him back. It may not be easy, but it is definitely worth it. The diabetes as well might have contributed to his dismissive attitude.

One of the prime reasons, I have sex with my wife is because she loves and respects me. Her company is too enjoyable for me, and we make it more enticing for each other with intimacy. 

So, whenever he's around, keep him happy. It is tough, but you will be able to accomplish it with the strength of your true love.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm sorry your going through such a tough time in your marriage, i feel the sadness in your post..

I suppose it comes down to finding a way to get your message across in a way he does understand and hear... we all have different ways of communicating...do you both communicate well on other matters eg; financial, the children, families etc...??

Would putting your words down in a letter be good for either of you?
This is something i find works for us.

Also are there other ways you could try to rebuild the closeness and intimacy you crave such as massage or going dancing or???


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

If you have talked about this in specificity and he still won't address it; It is time for you to flip the trash cans! Tell him this is hurting you deeply and making you feel rejected. A good hubby would do anything to stop his wife from hurting like that.Tell him you are a sexual being who needs that intimacy and he is not holding up his end of the bargain. 

Most men are masters of avoiding medical issues that is one reason so many die from Heart Attacks because they ignore the symptoms until its to late. I have seen it happen over and over and over again.

Tell him this is easily manageable and if he won't do it knowing how much you need it then how much could he care about you?

Tell him this is a make or break for him. Sometimes you have to light a fire right under our Asses for us to move. 

I hope the best for you!


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## Bluemoon1 (Mar 29, 2012)

I guess the advice that is given to men on this forum is appropriate, if you have tried talking about it and the other person is unwilling to talk about it, it's time you unplugged from him, get on with your life, sort out any issues you have in essence clean up your side of the street.

I don't know what it is about some low desire partners, but you have to shock them into doing something about it, kinder softer ways just do not work


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

At this point you have three options in front of you.

1. Divorce him and find someone who truly cares about you.

2. Continue in the marriage and resign yourself to living in a sexless marriage.

3. Have an affair with another man in similar situation as yours.

Option #2 destroys your soul little by little and with a lot of anger and bitterness towards him. He may reach the point of simply leaving you just to end the living hell.

Option #3 destroys your husband, your marriage, your children's view of you their mother, and destroys you as well. The amount of pleasure you receive from having sex with another man, will be overshadowed by the amount of pain it will bring to everybody's lives long after you end this option.

Option #1 ends your marriage but with less destructive results than the other two options. This option MAY be THE wake up call for him to see how desperate the situation truly has been for you and finally do something constructive about it. If it is not then you have your final answer that he truly did not care about you and you can move on knowing that you tried your best.

It is not just about sex but more importantly, the lack of caring for the higher sex drive spouse that hurts the most. At least that was my situation in my previous marriage. I hope you choose wisely.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

So - is he not managing the Diabetes properly???


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Take this thread into consideration. There are many reasons for sexual relations and intimacy to go out of a marriage, and the reasons are different for men and women. If your husband mistreated you or otherwise did things that caused resentment in you, you wouldn't want to have sex with him. There may be other determining factors for women, but those are the biggest ones. 

The reasons are very different for men though. One thing is for him to get his testosterone levels tested. He is probably telling the truth when he says he is attracted to you and wants intimacy but nothing results. He may be very confused about that. You feel he is avoiding the issue as he often avoids things, but it is likely he doesn't know what to do in this case. Not all men know their testosterone level can be out of whack. We women know our hormones can get screwed up, but men usually are unaware of this fact for themselves. This information that such a thing is possible might even come as a surprise to you. You need to make the doctor appointment for him if he won't. Take the initiative for both your sakes. Literally take him to the doctor if need be. Make him go.

Another determing factor for men is the same as in the thread I linked above. I think it boils down to some men having incredibly fragile egos, and the resulting scenario plays out in two different ways.

One way is these types of men don't respond well to a woman wanting sex. I think it has to do with the the things they learned in childhood and/or puberty - the things that help to form their self image and the image/opinion they have of women. Things said by their parents and other adult role models or could just be locker room talk that served to mold them and their way of thinking. One example is what they come to understand as the "good girl" image and the "bad girl" image. Bad girls are called slu*s, bi*ches, w*ores/hoes, cu*ts, etc. They may spend their prime/formative years wishing to get with one of the bad girls because such girls put out, but they decide in the back of their minds to marry a good girl because the bad girls are not marriage material. For his "good girl" wife to be a wanton woman causes confusion on some level. He knows she is not a bad girl, yet she pursues sex from him. He finds himself under considerable pressure to perform. The clash in his head is he is not the pursuer and aggressor, and she is not so demure or shy even though he loves her and knows she is not a "bad girl."

Another scenario that plays out that affects his ego is when his wife is not only the pursuer but is also an aggressive lover. This type of man likely prides himself in being able to please his wife. But sometimes, we women like to take the reins in bed. We instruct him. We direct him. Sometimes, we take over in effort to reach satisfaction. He begins to feel like her tool, as she uses his tool for her pleasure. He takes this to mean he's not doing it right or he is inadequate. His ego is threatened as he is forced to question his own sexual prowess.

Either or both of these scenarios are valid reasons for you to lay off pressuring him and do a 180 like Mavash did in the link I provided. It took her husband a year to come down off his ego trip. It may not take your husband that long, especially if there is a need for him to go on testosterone therapy. If he does, you won't be able to keep up with him. So, lets hope that's all the problem is and not that his ego is so fragile that he has become afraid of intimacy.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Bluemoon1 said:


> I guess the advice that is given to men on this forum is appropriate, if you have tried talking about it and the other person is unwilling to talk about it, it's time you unplugged from him, get on with your life, sort out any issues you have in essence clean up your side of the street.
> 
> I don't know what it is about some low desire partners, but you have to shock them into doing something about it, kinder softer ways just do not work


I'm the subject of that link and yes it took almost a year of me detaching, getting healthy and moving on with my life before he finally decided he wanted to work on the problem. For an added bonus he also got healthy too - forgot to mention that in my other thread. He's lost 20 pounds - 9 more to go. He's looking really good these days. 

I've got a brand new husband but it took me letting him go mentally, emotionally, physically before we could get to this point. And it was HARD I won't lie and it wasn't quick. I also have been in therapy to analyze how I contributed to this problem (and I did). I fixed my part and the rest was out of my control. That's painful to face but very true. The only person I could change was me.

AND I was fully prepared to leave him if this didn't get better after I did everything in my power to "clean my side of the street". No I wasn't going to bail after putting forth effort for oh a week no I committed for several years actually. This problem didn't happen overnight nor was it going to fixed overnight but at some point yes I would have left. Having that resolve helped me do what I had to do. I committed to doing EVERYTHING in my power knowing full well it might not work. That is true freedom and its important.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

I really admire you, Mavash


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

River1977 said:


> I really admire you, Mavash


Thanks I really appreciate that. You have no idea how much this SUCKS sometimes. Truly. A few months ago I did let my husband have it nicely but firmly. I looked him straight in the face and said "I deserve BETTER than this" after I proceeded to list everything I have done for this marriage. I asked him "what are YOU doing?" He said "I work and pay all the bills". I looked at him and said "that's not enough for me. Not even close.".

It was a calm conversation but I was dead serious and I meant every word (there was more to it - I'm just giving you the highlights). My therapist applauded every word I said. Something must have clicked because since then he's lost the weight and is putting forth more effort.

The problem I'm having NOW is NOT getting sucked back into making him the center of my world. I'm SHOCKED at how quickly I fall into that trap. And that never ever works. Never. 

Can you tell I'm struggling to get my head back in the game today? LOL

Sorry for the hijack but in a way it's applicable. I'm showing even when you get what you want it doesn't magically solve everything. It's a process and backsliding is to be expected.


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## Ittakestwo (Apr 22, 2012)

@ marriedglad

I have talked to him more times than I can count. Sometimes I have been so upset I have yelled at him, other times I have tried to approach him outside my emotion and talk calmly.. and there have been a few times that I have humiliated myself and felt that i was begging my husband. 

He is a very affectionate person... if I sit on the sofa, he will just come over and start rubbing my feet. He wants hugs and kisses but doesn't initiate anything beyond that. 

Weeks and sometimes months go by. 

I really believe that I have expressed my concerns and needs and desires more than enough. I have written him letters as well just to see if that would communicate better with him. 

I now have a lot of bitterness and resentment built up. I don't feel connected to him... i am at this place where I don't even want to try any more... but something keeps me in this marriage... maybe the idea that I have to keep trying. 

I am in no way some perfect spouse... so i know I have done many things wrong in how i treat him.... I have put him down... I am feel that i am dying inside...I am not the vibrant women i once was... I blame it on him and me choosing to marry him. 

This I know.... I am no longer a pleasant person to live with... that is my fault..


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## Ittakestwo (Apr 22, 2012)

Thank you... all of you for your input and compassion. 

My heart is aching to it's depths. I have read all that you each posted and I am hearing each of you. 

Here are some clarifications:

#1 He is not managing his diabetes properly.... we even went to a doctor that had him on a program that could have gotten him off of ALL meds and we saw the results in 3 weeks but he has stopped doing the program and I have stopped mothering him to do it.

#2 I have expressed myself in good ways and bad. I have not always handled things well and I am sure that I am certainly in part responsible for his avoiding this issue.

#3 I have thought I needed to just get on with my life while staying in the marriage ...get counseling... make new friends... get involved in the community .... begin exercising and eating right for myself. Why do I so want him and I to do it all together? 

#4 I know that I can only change myself... I am very angry and resentful at this time.. I am so not a pleasant person for him to be around... I don't yell at him... I just don't talk unless necessary.
It hurts too much to keep talking to him... I hate going to that place of deep emotional pain... the lump in my throat from trying to talk it out. I have made myself become numb... I am repressing many emotions that I am afraid to let out for fear of what that would look like now. 

#5 i long for a marriage that will be fulfilling and joyful through our retirement years. We are in our 40's and it seems like I have nothing to look forward to when we become empty nesters which won't be for a few years... 4 or 5... but it is quickly approaching.

please keep responding when you have time and insight. I am reaching out ... listening and weighing what i need to do...


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

The anger and resentment you feel is very normal for the type of situation you're in. It's not healthy, but very normal... I feel it off and on myself in my marriage.

I have learned, and this is soooo much more easily said than done, that you have to work on getting to a place where you forgive him (not condone his unwillingness to be intimate with you), just forgive it. Not just say the words so that the forgiveness is sort of a high minded forgiveness, but in your heart forgive him. In the end that anger and resentment just hurts you and eats away at you. You're already hurting enough, you don't need to add to that hurt yourself.

As for the medical side of things, it's not just all about the diabetes... there's almost certainly other things at play. I'd have his testosterone level checked out. It could be that his body chemistry has changed and he's not producing enough testosterone. There could be a host of other issues, but I think you both owe it to each other to investigate further.

Definitely read through Mavash's thread, I know I found it very inspirational as well as others.

I'd like to also highly recommend a therapist, my wife and I started seeing a sex therapist a few weeks back and it's already been very helpful for our marriage. We've become more intimate and it's increased her affection for me a great deal.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Ittakestwo said:


> Thank you... all of you for your input and compassion.
> 
> My heart is aching to it's depths. I have read all that you each posted and I am hearing each of you.
> 
> ...


Hi Ittakestwo ~

Since you see the areas where you have expressed yourself poorly (kudos on being self-aware!), then work on ways that you can address those issues in yourself, so that when you do have interactions with your husband, they are positive, where you retain your confidence and calm.

Yes, it is easy to feel frustrated and resentful of our partners when they seem to simply choose to not care. Each person in a marriage has the opportunity of choice...and you can choose the personal boundaries that you are willing to live with.

What are the things that you are willing to live with and those which you are not?

If you are not willing to live with your husband being apathetic about his health, what are you willing to do - are you willing to provide the support he needs, is there a support group he could attend that would provide that support?

If he is apathetic about the relationship and your needs, what are you willing to do - are you willing to 'reduce the emotional temperature' in your marriage, are you up for having a very earnest and heartfelt discussion with him and request that he go to MC with you so you can learn to work in the marriage together, are you up for going to IC on your own if he won't engage in the marriage with you so that you can improve yourself and make a decision about how best to move forward?

While it does take two willling participants to have a fulfilling marriage, it often takes only one to make the first step toward improving themself, which in turn has the potential to positively affect their mate and their marriage. 

Best wishes.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Did this start with the ED, or before that?

And is he managing his ED with meds like viagra?

He seems affectionate and loving, but can't bring himself to be intimate. I can see a few possibilities, or a combination of any of them....

He's bored with the sex life. But I'm not so sure that would be the case as it's hard to get so "bored" you NEVER want it. 

His testosterone levels are low. He should get checked. If those levels are okay, then it's deeper than that.

It could very well be his ED. I have it. This is where this post gets long, because I can tell you it can be an all consuming and painful thing for a man, and very hard to overcome. But I did, and it was not easy. Here's how I managed it: 

If he's not on meds, he needs to try them. And even then, they're not magic pills that can control what's in his head. If he still has fears of not getting or maintaining an erection, even with the pill, that can be enough to lose one. I'm speaking from experience here. I have had some form of ED since I was in my late 20's. Even with the pill, if my head "goes there" and starts to worry about it, IT is not happening. When this happens to a guy, at least for me, it was crushing. I lived in fear of a sexual encouter. The fear of losing an erection was all consuming. I could think of little else, so I just avoided it by not putting myself in a position where it could happen. I went a long time without dating years ago, in the prime of my life, because of it. 

When I did start, thank god it was with a considerate woman who did not care about it, and helped me work through it. BUT, and this is a big one...I HAD TO LET HER KNOW MY FEARS AND LET HER HELP ME! I really took me being far more open than I wanted to be. If I was going to fix the problem, I had to confront it, this very embarrassing issue, WITH another person. That took a lot. But I am so thankful I did. Slowly, with no pressure from her, things got better. There was frequent sex, and no pressure for intercourse. It took quite a few times of me getting to the point of orgasm several times and quickly switching to intercourse to start building confidence again. I also had to not push myself and just allow myself to orgasm other ways without even attempting intercourse all the time.

On your part...help him. The number one thing I had to tell my wife, several times, was "I promise you this (difficulty with erections, we still had plenty of sex) is not about YOU, this is about ME. Don't be sefish and insecure and make this about YOU! Please do not put that kind of pressure on me!" She feared it was her. It was not. And her fears that she was not attractive to me or that I did not want sex with her fueled my fears, and did not help. I had to get blunt and forceful with her, that if she was going to be insecure, insensitive, not trust what I was telling her and make it about herself, it was not going to work. I had to reassure her in a lot of ways it had nothing to do with her attractiveness or my desire to have intercourse with her. Only when she truly understood it was not about her, did she let it go, and things got better. Amazingly better. We have intercourse 1 to 2 times a week on average, sometimes more than that. Much more than that. Sometimes, when the stars align, it's 2 to 3 times a day. And we have found that with all the other great sex we had while I was working on my issue, that intercourse is but a small part of sex. We have sex in so many other ways still that don't involve intercourse just because what we've learned together it is just so much damn fun without even going there!

What your husband may need to understand is he can please you so many ways without intercourse, until he is again able to do that. When I was dating my wife, we rarely had it because I'd lose erections right before or during intercourse the moment the "oh crap, am I gonna lose it" or during intercourse "damn, am I hard? Am I losing it now?" thoughts would creep in. BUT, we had PLENTY of sex, and she said it was (and continues to be) the most amazing sex of her life. I really wanted to be a good lover despite my ED / performance anxiety issue, and so I learned. A lot. Now, I've never thought I was a bad lover, was always considerate and attentive, but damn, I was nowhere NEAR the lover before I had this issue that I am now. Not even close. I researched. Watched videos on technique. Researched some more. About giving great oral. About the G-spot, how to find it, and how to give her mind blowing orgasms with my hands and mouth. About the differences between clitoral and vaginal orgasms. How to time and "blend" those different orgasms for her into one earth shattering blended orgasm. How to get a woman to have a g-spot orgasm and ejaculate (I know not all are capable of this, but many are, my wife is now, though she never was before and like others thought some of these things "myth" or that she was just not capable of them. It has blown her mind after herself being in a sexless marriage for 15 years and never experiencing all these different things before herself). I became hyper-attentive during sex. I made sex about her orgasms, and got myself into the mindset that if I didn't have one, or couldn't perform, that was okay, because I knew she was having mind blowing sex with me. I was determined NOT to lose this woman because she wasn't satisfied in bed. I needed that, because I had to remove the fear from myself that I would lose her if I couldn't maintain an erection and perform. 

Once she got past the fears of it being about her and my reassurance it wasn't, satisfied she became. Then something great happened. The pressure was off of me. The frequency of our intercourse started to increase. Slowly but surely. Now, all those fears are essentially gone for me, and it is virtually never an issue. But it took time, openness, trust, and understanding. 

Now, on the flip side of my experience, I know of one other person with the same issue. The husband of my wife's close friend. He is not dealing with it. He's avoiding it. He satisfies his needs through porn because he's too afraid to have sex with his wife. It's been a year. A YEAR since they've had sex. She's not yet ready to leave, but is ready to have an affair because she cannot deal with the crushing emptiness of not being touched. He won't go to the doc, and won't get the pills. He's just avoiding the issue. And he's losing her. I gave my wife the go ahead to talk to her and tell her about my issues and how I resolved them, and offered to talk to her about how she can help him past it. 

Your husband needs a wake up call. He needs to know he can lose you over this. NOT lose you over not having intercourse, but lose you over the fact that you are not being touched and fulfilled. There is NO reason for him to not be able to do that. If he can rub your feet and give a massage, he can "rub" and massage you in other areas. He should be starting with the foot rub. He should not be ending with a damn foot rub!!! And if ED is the main issue, and he addresses that, once he starts to see he can please you in bed without intercourse, the pressure will start to lift for him. 

But, he needs to stop being self centered and selfish. Because that is exactly what he's doing by not confronting his fears - no matter how bad they are - and taking steps to do things for you to make you feel fulfilled and satisfied. And a hard penis can have so very little to do with bringing someone sexual satisfaction and intimacy. THAT is what he better wrap his head around and understand. Sex does not have to be mutually physically satisfying. It's something you can and should do for the one you love. When it is mutually physically satisfying, then it's incredible. Until then, his emotional satisfaction through fulfilling your desires and needs should be all the motivation he should ever need. It seems more prevailant in a woman's mindset I believe, but men have it too...this mentality that if "I don't want sex, why should I have to do it? It's my body, blah, blah, blah". Ugh. Do we feel this way when we're giving a back rub for christ's sake? NO! It does not have to be mutually physically satisfying! It's important to your partner, just as backrubs, foot rubs, paying the bills, being a good caring husband and father, wife or mother is. What is mutually physically satisfying about any of that? Yet involve a couple silly body parts below the waist, and suddenly it's okay to not fulfill your partners very real needs because it won't be earth shattering for you?!!! Where the hell did that mentality come from?


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## Ittakestwo (Apr 22, 2012)

thank you again for the input and insight and compassion and truth.

@donny64- thank you for all that you wrote, for your honesty, openess and candid truth. I have read this to my husband and somethings you wrote have related to him...not sure what yet or on what level but something has. 

I appreciate all the input that you are all giving... I sense it is with a great sincerity to help and i so appreciate it. It is helping me to read the posts, feel supported, being allowed to voice these truths. This was the only way in addition to going to a counselor that I knew to talk about this... I do not drag my husband through the mud with my friends... they know things aren't great but I have not disclosed the details... it's just too deep of an issue right now.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

I'm glad you showed that to him. I was going to suggest you try that if you thought it would not be taken badly.

If you two start down this road, remember on your part, if he's not able to achieve physical satisfaction himself, you must be okay with that and not question it, or make it about you being desirable, etc. The goal for you both right now should be to get to a place where you are again sharing these things, and if one (or both) of you are not necessarily physically fulfilled at first, you will still have the intimacy, bonding, and mental fulfilment and satisfaction. Those things are huge while you learn these new things and deal with these new issues.

And I'll add that this new way of doing things is some real "spice" for a sexual relationship. It's new and unfamiliar. Maybe there is some feeling of familiarity, boredom, or loss of attraction. I can tell you that now that it appears you'll have to do things a bit differently, that alone can be very exciting and sexually stimulating mentally. One of my favorite things to do for my wife is to give her orgasms outside of intercourse. It is very exciting in a different way just to be there, fully aware of what she's doing and how she's feeling, concentrating on how she reacts to what I'm doing, while I just hold her, grab her and kiss her. I get passionate and involved, even though my goal is not physical satisfaction for myself. And it's a very, very nice experience! I often wake her up or put her down on the bed or couch to do just that without any desire to do or obtain anything for myself. She orgasms, and then we just go back to sleeping or going about our day. And I love it.

He sounds like a caring man that loves you, so I do believe and trust that if he can do this for you, he will feel very good about it, himself, and the relationship...as will you. There may be some stumbling about in the beginning as you're learning how to have sex together in these different ways after years of "familiar sex", but as time goes on, it should only get better and better. Being open with each other and not too awkward about this (it's okay to feel awkward, just don't let that stop you!) and having sex this new way will be key to making it work and making both of you happy.

Something I forgot to add, is this may take some work from you as well to please him outside of intercourse. Many men with ED issues are able to achieve erection, but will lose it during intercourse as I did and sometimes still do. Intercourse can oftentimes be not stimulating enough due to excessive lubrication, loss of sensation, etc. But I rarely, virtually never lost it during oral sex or if she was using hands on me. This was also where the "performance anxiety" part of it was kicking in. But I rarely felt that when she pleased me outside of intercourse, and with the help of viagra I maintained my erections and had great orgasms myself. You may need to do that, with no pressure on him that what you're doing will or should lead to intercourse. If he is going to please you outside of intercourse for now, by the same token you could look to do the same for him if he desires that. If you don't like giving hand jobs or oral, well, you should start. Reciprocate if he wants that and his main issue is not desire, but fear of losing it or actually losing it from not enough stimulation during intercourse. If you think you're not good at it and that concerns you, do as he should be doing and learn. Google is your friend here. It should feel as good for you to selflessly give to him as it should be for him to selflessly give to you. Giving something so nice to someone in such an unselfish way can feel really good for everyone! And when you start down that road, those good feelings carry over into every day life outside of sex...just the same as the frustration and resentment can when these things aren't addressed.


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