# Is it still called "coping" after 2 years?



## allwillbewell (Dec 13, 2012)

I am facing the 2nd anniversary of DDay #1 in a couple of days and am trying to realistically deal with the emotions and depression it triggers. Even tho we have had MC and IC(me), I believe I still feel a lot of anger and resentment over the infidelities my husband had over our 34 year marriage and feel guilty and frustrated that I haven't been able to move on. What does it mean, HOW DOES IT FEEL to forgive when the cheating added up to over 7 years of our marriage?! What am I forgiving? Its not like it was a ONS! or even a few months of sex...

I have tried to put it behind me and start anew and in the two years since DD we have had quite a bit of success in reconciliation, where I felt and thought he did too, that we were healing and falling back in love, but there have been some serious setbacks too: a number of off and on texts and phone calls between WH and AP#2 with "didn't mean anything" BS explanations when I discovered them. A 2nd DDay a few months ago when AP#2 informed me H had affair 20 years ago I never knew about. I look at the man who I thought I knew and realize I no nothing about him and wonder if I knew what I know now would I have married him in the first place? What kind of person does this level of deceit? 

To top it off, he refuses to talk about it anymore...He doesn't feel any need to recommit with words or vows even tho he knows full well I consider the old marriage dead and gone... I still wear no ring. He says he has come to terms with what he did, feels he has expressed enough regret and remorse, apologized enough, feels it is raking up the past, that he loves me, has changed his ways and that he has moved on and I should too. Well, I would love to but what do I do with the hurt, loss of respect, resentment, feeling used, anger that is still bouncing around in my heart. WHY WON'T THAT GO AWAY? I have worked so hard not to dwell on the past, to change my ways, give him what he needs in a marriage...What a fool I have been, how stupid to be a romantic, believing marriage was for keeps, for better or worse, that I could possibly be eternally beloved of just one other person in this world...

Even if, miraculously, our marriage could become perfect overnight, everything I ever dreamed of sharing with a man, would it outweigh the betrayal and deceit of 20 years hiding one affair and then moving into a second of 6 years duration 13 years later? So I look at the man I desperately loved enough to give a second and third and fourth and fifth chance to, the man I am over-emotionally dependent on and feel the pieces of the my broken heart harden. I KNOW that the past and future are fantasies that no longer exist and that I should dwell in the NOW, enjoy the day we have, make new memories, build a new love and life and all that other endless blather but I am getting so tired of dealing with it by myself. I am losing hope ....

Can anyone help with advice or reassurance on how to soften my heart and feel compassion and love and devotion again like I did just a few months ago when things were going well? Please explain how a person's heart can flip flop so drastically? And please, if all you can say is "kick him to the curb", divorce the POS or some other such negativity, don't bother cause its not going to happen for so many reasons I won't go into now. HOWEVER, if I ever found out he has reestablished contact with exAP or cheated again, he is OUT no matter what...I swear to God with a vow I hold as sacred as I did my marriage vows...


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi,

This sounds rough.

Your husband is not really remorseful.

It isn't about *him* coming to terms with it - after all it's not much having to "come to terms" with getting a load of sex is it?

*You* have to come to terms with it and *he* has to help. He must be available to you. 

He is rug sweeping and you are paying the price whilst he waltzes along merrily thinking he's pretty damn smart.

Your pain won't go away because your husband isn't allowing you to heal.

Talk to him. He probably needs the risk of real consequences - what did you do after the recent DDay?


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

I have been Chris' echo today! I agree with him.

The problem seems to be that your husband is not willing to go the extra mile to help you heal.

You might need to start questioning your reason for staying. I am sure you are, that is why you posted.

My d-days were around 3 years ago. I still think about it everyday. Not sure if your scars ever go away. The pain does diminish.

Your post makes me think that you are to the point of detachment that you are wondering what to do. Limbo. Limbo was worse than D for me.

Are you staying out of fear? Most of us do or did that for a time.

Fear of splitting the family, fear of financial ruin, fear of public blame/scorn, fear of religious ideals, fear from looking like you can't extend forgiveness.

One day you start realizing that your fear changes. My fear changed to fear of repeating the infidelity, fear of knowing that I didn't have deep reciprocated love, fear that my heart would never mend with her in the picture.

Life is short. I also feared that I needed to spend what I had left with someone decent. It is one of those risks that life brings. I risked it for something better. So far I have no regrets. I do have challenges, but they are not as bad as the things I lived through.

I am happily re-married now. It is wonderful to see the sparkle in you lover's eyes, and know that it is genuine. Maybe it will end up in disaster, but I really feel that our collective pasts make it sweeter for both of us.

Either path you chose is risky. Your biggest regret might be not deciding. It sounds like your R is not making you happy.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Don’t know what to tell you. I’m four years out and in the same boat. I know I really do need to put this in the rear view mirror, but I can’t either. It’s hard and I know this is mainly an internal issue versus anything she is or isn’t doing. I think you recognized one of the key elements; This isn’t our fantasy.

That dream, was killed and replaced with you knowing that you rely might be standing alone against the world. It’s darker than it once was. And it is at odds with why you might want to be married in the first place; So you wouldn’t have to face the world alone and someone would be there at your side and looking out for you as you would for them. And now you know... It feels lonely being in R or D. And just as worse, you know really with anyone, they aren’t necessarily going to be watching out for you either. It’s a lonely recognition of shattered dreams. 

We had to ‘grow up’ and give up our fantasy of marriage: That’s what I don’t know if I can ever forgive her for. I liked the fantasy and didn’t need it to be shattered; I didn’t have to grow up on this. Santa, Tooth Fairy, and now “Union of two souls” turned out to be just nice stories that aren’t true. People are people and what you two share isn’t so unique or special that you could never intentionally cause the other harm... Now I have to watch my own back just in case... that hurts most of all.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Lovemytruck said:


> Your post makes me think that you are to the point of detachment that you are wondering what to do. Limbo. Limbo was worse than D for me.
> 
> Are you staying out of fear? Most of us do or did that for a time.
> 
> ...


The Limbo was the worst... You cannot move on. I took a hold of my situation and forced things to happen... Mediation, D etc... I was tired of being in a position I neither asked for nor deserved so I got to a point where I did something about it. Your H needs to do the hard work. It is not about him. He had his 'about him' time which caused all this in the first place. 

You need this for you so tell him. Good luck to you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> Hi,
> 
> This sounds rough.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

I guess we all have to decide that for ourselves. 

I'm 13 months past Dday, working on R. We are making progress. Slowly. We still talk about it, more than she wants, less than I want. I guess it's about balance. I will D if I feel we can't get to a point that makes us both happy. But I'm willing to keep working it as long as we are making progress toward that mutual goal. 

If we stop making progress, or worse. Then I'd D. Lawyer is selected. Papers are ready anytime I want to serve. To be honest, going through the step of preparing that was very therapeutic for me. It demystified the process and gave me a sense of control over the situation that I had been lacking. I gave her a chance to confess everything to me. The time for TT is over. If I find out anything new, I know exactly what I'm doing. No more fear or mental gyrations about 'what if'. I know exactly 'what if'.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

You had a second dday a few months ago? Well no wonder you are so down. Finding out something like that is going to set you back for awhile. 
HE feels that YOU should move on, well that isn't how it works. If his business partner cheated him.......would it bother him? Would he keep such a person as his partner? Well we BS are asking ourselves to do just that, and it's a g.d. hard task, like climbing Mount Everest. 
You aren't wearing a ring, that shows the conflict and mistrust. 
Was he being remorseful several months ago? Was that why you were able to soften to him? 
Do you stay out of fear of being alone?


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

Fear of being alone, that's the kicker that keeps a lot of us in these shadowlands.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

An affair of 6 years....that is tough! Utter sh*t! And then as you are coming to terms with that huge 'blip' you then find out it was not a one off! Well....no wonder you are now questioning everything. 

Bear with me....your husband has dealt for 2 years what is the present situation, has shown his remorse (I am assuming) and done what he can to make things better (without coming properly clean). And now he is blindsided by something that happened 20 years ago (I know, he wasn't blindsided, you were) and has to start all over again. And he cannot cope with the repeated nature of this when it was sooo insignificant because he had practically forgotten all about it and it was 'nothing' (that is if it was his 1st? And cheaters are generally weak individuals who cannot cope with much!) And so he is just emotionally drained from it all (men are notoriously not good at dealing with emotional stuff). He is now telling you to stop making him deal with it. He was bad, he knows he was bad, and now he has to start over being sorry for being bad all over again! I can see where he is coming from (in a WTF kinda way, because really he should have got rid of the old marriage with you, came clean, fully, and made a good marriage come out the oyher side! Instead you have a sh*ty marriage due to the extra helping he smacked you with). 

Which is why I think that the only way to give him that extra bit of oomph, that kick up the backside, that reason to keep going with the effort and the R, is to give him some hard consequences. Either he helps you with R, or he gets the eff out. And mean it. He sounds like a total sh*t the way he is carrying on. Is he a serial cheater? Is what you now know all of it? Will you ever know?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Your husband is exactly the same entitled man who cheated on you once and again, making a complete joke of you and the marriage for f'king six years.
His reaction to contacting AP2, his actions after DDay2, his own recent words and behavior reveal it.

You must find a way to accept he's who he is and this is the marriage you are going to have... or take the hard decision of pulling the trigger.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

what you have to realize is that you'll be "coping" for the rest of your life. your husband was f0cking another woman for 6 years..... not an easy thing to get over.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

There were a couple of things I finally realized after dragging my cheating husband uphill in R for over 2 years and then finding out he'd actually had 2 other affairs I hadn't known about before.

First, my husband was willing to say anything to keep me. Note: he was not willing to _do_ all that much. But he was willing to _say_ anything. There's an important difference there. Is your husband willing to do what it takes, or is he only willing to say whatever will shut you up long enough to "get over it" or "forget about it" or whatever it is he's hoping will happen? 

Second, the issue was not that my husband did not understand how badly he hurt me. The issue was that he did not really _care_ how badly he'd hurt me. Marriage counseling, in my experience, all too often relies on the assumption that the WS doesn't really understand how their actions affect their BS, and if they did, they would stop engaging in those actions. This same assumption keeps BSs in marriages with serial cheaters, trying over and over and over to find the perfect way to explain how badly they are hurt so that their WS will finally "get it" and become the spouse they should have been all along. However, that is often not the dynamic that actually exists. A serial cheater _knows_ what he/she is doing. There is no way to explain it so clearly that they "get it" because they already get it. They just want to keep doing it more than they care about their BS.

I'm sorry I can't offer more than those two insights and my deep sympathy. The betrayal you've been dealt is truly horrific. But do think about what I've posted and see if it fits your situation. If it does, really consider whether a man who operates that way is worth the rest of your life. Limbo sucks. Badly. But getting angrier than you are confused can help you break out of limbo and find the self-respect to not let this man devour any more of your time or your soul.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

AWBW,

I'm 4 years out from catching my wife in short EA/PA with the old college BF from 30 years back... so it seemed. After a week of questioning and discovering "deleted" emails, She owned up to serially cheating for over 6 years with 3 OM. 

The Point... Serial Cheaters will often tell their current affair partner about a long ago affair. It's their way of justifying how long and bad their marriage has been. In some strange way... "A Red Badge of Misery". Remember this has little to do with reality just a way to jump start an affair with mutual cheaters.

The Truth... Serial Cheating is more common than most, even here at CWI, will admit. My own wife admitted that it was very addictive as well as exciting to her. And here's a often missed truth that is rarely discussed here. Cheaters don't really need constant communication and contact in long term affairs. Remember, these relationships are not real (Rainbows and Unicorns). No real life issues or hardships... only about selfish gratification. An occasional email followed by few discrete hookups every few months or so.

Hold On... If there is one truth about cheaters... THERE IS ALWAYS MORE. I can tell from your post you suspect more, but are focused on what has been admitted to. It is a very real probability that your husband has been cheating for the entire 20+ years.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

RWB said:


> AWBW,
> 
> I'm 4 years out from catching my wife in short EA/PA with the old college BF from 30 years back... so it seemed. After a week of questioning and discovering "deleted" emails, She owned up to serially cheating for over 6 years with 3 OM.
> 
> ...


This scenario is what worries me the most now. I am seriously thinking of reconciling but how do I know - how will I *ever* know if this was the first, or even that it is really over?


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

My H and I will be married 34 years on June 30. He had an online affair where they were planning to meet, but never did, 16 years ago. He kept me in limbo, not knowing what he wanted to do, for many months. It took many years to get to the point where I didn't think about it often, but it never really went away.

Nov, 2011, he started a similar online/phone etc. affair but they had stated up front they were never going to leave their spouses. It lasted 4 months until I caught on. I thought we were doing well in R, I was 'coping' and by Feb of this year I thought things were fine, we were getting along great, moving forward, when I discovered he had started it up again in Nov 2012.

So, I am coping again, he has made promises and seems to be keeping them. Some days I feel like a fool for not throwing him out but most days I feel optimistic.

So, yes, coping will go on and on. The pain and obsession of thinking about it will dwindle IF he commits fully to you, but it doesn't sound like he is. If he seriously thought contact with AP, even via texts, was OK, then no, he is not committed to you.

You must decide what you want to live with. I would be watchful and guard my heart because I know if it happens again with my H, there IS no us anymore and he will have to go.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

allwillbewell said:


> *WHY WON'T THAT GO AWAY?*
> 
> _To top it off, he refuses to talk about it anymore...He doesn't feel any need to recommit with words or vows. He says he has come to terms with what he did, feels he has expressed enough regret and remorse, apologized enough, feels it is raking up the past, that he loves me, has changed his ways and that he has moved on and I should too._


You've answered your own question. Never mind your decision to R with a serial cheater. That's a decision that all BS's have to make.

But the problem is that there is a limit to his remorse. Which really means he's not "truly" remorseful. As long as that's the case, you'll never shake those mind movies. You'll be living in purgatory until the next time he cheats. 

He's not afraid of losing you because he doesn't believe you *will* leave. 

You should no more accept his lack of remorse (not being willing to talk to you about the A) than you would another affair. Both should be deal breakers for you.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

*but there have been some serious setbacks too: a number of off and on texts and phone calls between WH and AP#2 with "didn't mean anything" BS explanations when I discovered them. A 2nd DDay a few months ago when AP#2 informed me H had affair 20 years ago I never knew about.*

In reality you are not two years out. If you are still finding things out then he has not come clean. I suspect that you are in false R no matter what he says. I was in false R for over a year and until my wife came clean just over a month ago it is miserable. Not that coming clean is not painful, it is beyond measure, but at least I believe I got the truth and things do feel right for once as far as what she is telling me.

Your H is rug sweeping and until he stops and gives you want you need, not what he needs, you will forever be in the condition you are currently in, and that my friend is misery.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Slight T/J


Chris989 said:


> This scenario is what worries me the most now. I am seriously thinking of reconciling but how do I know - how will I *ever* know if this was the first, or even that it is really over?


Polygraph. I know, i know England is not the right place for this and finances are horrible now.
Maybe you can fake one and force a parking lot confession. Maybe you can make it a requirement and she can save the money or take a loan for it...
After all you already divorced her, make her understand in order to start the new relationship she can't have any secret. Is she of the type of getting advice online? I believe SI would be a good place for her (save TAM for you).
End of T/J


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## allwillbewell (Dec 13, 2012)

Wow, I am overwhelmed by the sympathetic posts and advice, it is encouraging and uplifting to know there are others out there who are going through the same thing. 

To address some questions and clear misunderstandings: 

What did you do after the recent DDay? 

I left for a "vacation" for a week to sort things out after talking to the OW#1 for her side of the story and get more info. My H pretty much thought marriage was over at this point. However, while devastated, I felt a curious lack of connection to the revelation. Probably because it was so long ago, had no evidence to read, etc. I am more haunted by the fact that he abandoned the marriage so long ago, question whether he ever really reconnected(yes, and wonder if there were more affairs in between) until he re-abandoned it again with second known affair. I obsess on the injustice of it all: I had a right to know, to decide about my own life, address and correct dysfunction, unmet needs, etc. He stole that from me. 

We talked it out and I chose to stay in marriage but made clear this was it as for second chances.

Are you staying out of fear?

Yes, I suppose so. I am 60 years old, and while I am attractive, fit, no health issues and financially secure, realize I would have a hard time finding someone new who would be compatible and without issues themselves. Its like trading the devil you know for the one you don't. 

I also dread telling our children, we never separated after DDay 1, I told no one outside of counselors. 

Our history goes back to mid 1960's as I've known him since childhood...mutual friends, memories, etc. Hard to throw that all away. 

The thought of dissolving our home and what we've built is daunting...and I know I would leave this place, no matter what. 

We have had success in rebuilding our marriage and love in the last two years which gives me hope and optimism. We can laugh together, enjoy doing things together, travel, new endeavors, etc. This was always possible even during affairs which is why I was so blindsided. 

Was he being remorseful several months ago?

Yes! he has shown much remorse, shame and regret: stated he feels unworthy to recommit, offer a new ring. I removed it not due to distrust, but because it symbolized vows that were broken, pissed on...Of course, I fear the other possibility that he doesn't feel committed.

The post by "Remains" is dead on, I feel to explain H situation. I understand this and is why I am in Limbo...I need to move on too and let it go...FORGIVENESS is not allowing the betrayal, the past stand between us and the new life we could enjoy. But for me, there are still so many unknowns: will he cheat again, is he staying just for the convenience, does he need me, can he change his basic personality to reassure me? 

We are going back to MC at his insistence because we both agree that by ourselves we have been unable to surmount the damage. He has not had to really face his demons, the why of how he could do this, the character flaws that made it seem so easy. I think that is also one of the reasons I cannot move on. 

"Rowan" and "RWB": your posts were incredibly enlightening, thank you

Now I have a few more questions for you all out there:

WHat is the definition of a serial cheater?

I assumed it was a person who had many, multiple ONS or short term affairs over and over again...according to many, my H fits the definition too because he had two affairs, one long term?

and

How does unwillingness to talk equate with lack of remorse?

Thank you all for your advice, it has helped more than you know to know someone out there cares to respond!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

A truly remorseful WS will WANT to talk about the affair with the BS. They will want to comfort the BS and do every possible thing they can to help them heal, including answering every single question a hundred times and talking about it till they're blue in the face if that's what the BS needs. THEY are the one that fvcked up. They do not get to call the shots. Any WS that isn't committed to years of healing work with their BS is not truly remorseful. If the WS views it as the BS's problem, they're copping out and looking for permission to cheat again.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

If you did something terribly terribly wrong (something so bad your spouse may have walked out on you), you would want to make up for it. You would want to do ANYTHING AT ALL that was needed. Would you tell him to button it when you felt it was time he got over it? 

When a spouse doesn't feel this, that is not right. That is not remorse. 

Bashing him with it is one thing. Unable to discuss at all is totally different.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

My definition of a serial cheater is one who cheats at will. Or when a situation or circumstance brings about the same result and they just don't have enough self control. 

Someone who does something once and never repeats is someone who learnt from their behaviour.

A 6 year affair is most definitely serial cheating.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> A truly remorseful WS will WANT to talk about the affair with the BS. They will want to comfort the BS and do every possible thing they can to help them heal, including answering every single question a hundred times and talking about it till they're blue in the face if that's what the BS needs. THEY are the one that fvcked up. They do not get to call the shots. Any WS that isn't committed to years of healing work with their BS is not truly remorseful. If the WS views it as the BS's problem, they're copping out and looking for permission to cheat again.


Years of this. Christ, it's like being sentenced for a crime I didn't commit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Brokenshadow said:


> Years of this. Christ, it's like being sentenced for a crime I didn't commit.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You essentially pay for what they did... Actually you pay for MORE than what they did.


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## allwillbewell (Dec 13, 2012)

I guess that's the problem with hidden affairs that the BS never finds out about; they end or fizzle out and the WS NEVER pays the consequences! In fact they are REWARDED for their betrayal by getting away with it. So easy to cheat again. I have realized, that in my case, while I take responsibility for some of the problems we encountered between us in OUR marriage and still have, which I am daily working on to improve...my husband has a serious flaw, an emptiness, a compulsion to resort to deceit in order to live his life at a level that makes him happy. He has been and is unwilling to face this and address it by refusing to understand himself and his motivations: no IC for him or even once reading a book or article on infidelity. He copes by total disconnect, compartmentalizing, seems to adhere to the slogan "if it feels good, do it" or "live for today, f**k the consequences". But now all his choices of 20(maybe more) years are catching up to him and he can't deal with it. IDK, maybe this new round of MC will finally address these issues but you all are right: he needs to step up to the plate and show true remorse and care by full transparency and willingness to hear me out...Its so tragic, all I really want from him when I trigger and need to talk is NOT a big drawn out conversation, but simply for him to wrap his arms around me, tell me he's sorry and loves me and will from now on BE THERE FOR ME. Why is that so hard?


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