# Should have listened to TAM



## free2beme14

I got back together with XH in December, my basement flooded due to a bunch of rain, he was there helping all the time with clean up seemed to have his crap together. Was doing everything I had asked him to work on, so he moved back in end of December of first of January. I continued going to IC, things were going good--we had good communication, he was keeping up his progress. I seriously thought it was for real. 

We made it the typical for us 6 months of things going good and then they slowly started to unravel about June. He's not communicating, he is constantly complaining about his job but won't do anything to change it (like look for a new one), not finishing projects that he starts or not starting them at all. Back to blaming the ADHD, says he needs me to help him remember, blah, blah. On his phone with his buddy or watching videos all the time. 

Last week, however, I kind of reached my breaking point. He texts me in the morning about how his job is screwing him over really bad, and he's going to think about "turning in his keys and quitting" that afternoon. So all day I worry about what he is going to do, because he has quit jobs before so I know its not just an I'm having a bad day thing. Apparently he said the same thing to his boss on the way out the door. So he doesn't quit, and he doesn't get fired. But I realize that its totally selfish of him to even think that way, it doesn't take "us" into consideration at all. Our present with paying bills, our future. 

So here I am again, thinking this is not where I want to be.


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## brooklynAnn

So, where do you want to be? And do you want to be with him, knowing what the outcome will be?


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## Begin again

free2beme14 said:


> I got back together with XH in December, my basement flooded due to a bunch of rain, he was there helping all the time with clean up seemed to have his crap together. Was doing everything I had asked him to work on, so he moved back in end of December of first of January. I continued going to IC, things were going good--we had good communication, he was keeping up his progress. I seriously thought it was for real.
> 
> We made it the typical for us 6 months of things going good and then they slowly started to unravel about June. He's not communicating, he is constantly complaining about his job but won't do anything to change it (like look for a new one), not finishing projects that he starts or not starting them at all. Back to blaming the ADHD, says he needs me to help him remember, blah, blah. On his phone with his buddy or watching videos all the time.
> 
> Last week, however, I kind of reached my breaking point. He texts me in the morning about how his job is screwing him over really bad, and he's going to think about "turning in his keys and quitting" that afternoon. So all day I worry about what he is going to do, because he has quit jobs before so I know its not just an I'm having a bad day thing. Apparently he said the same thing to his boss on the way out the door. So he doesn't quit, and he doesn't get fired. But I realize that its totally selfish of him to even think that way, it doesn't take "us" into consideration at all. Our present with paying bills, our future.
> 
> So here I am again, thinking this is not where I want to be.


Sorry you find yourself here. My thought is that he didn't really change; he just pretended for as long as he could. But don't kick yourself too badly, as you gave him a second chance and he was the one who blew it, not you. 

I suspect he never really wanted to change how he is. If so, it would bother him with how he's acting and he would try to right his own ship. So, unless you are seeing him take ownership of his behavior and self correct, it's time to walk (again). 

Be strong. You've been through this before and now you have more information. You will be ok.


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## Satya

So, what's your personal contingency plan?


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## free2beme14

brooklynAnn said:


> So, where do you want to be? And do you want to be with him, knowing what the outcome will be?


I want to be stable and looking toward the future, and I don't just mean tomorrow or next week. I'm 46, I want to retire at 60 and move to the beach to live. 

I love my XH dearly, he is a good guy even a great guy, but not if you have expectations of him to be responsible.


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## free2beme14

Satya said:


> So, what's your personal contingency plan?


Ask him to move out and move on with my life


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## brooklynAnn

You can still love him when you are living on your own and divorced. Just don't invite him to live with you again. Just plan a future on your own and make that happen. 

So, what are you going to do about him in the near future?


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## free2beme14

brooklynAnn said:


> You can still love him when you are living on your own and divorced. Just don't invite him to live with you again. Just plan a future on your own and make that happen.
> 
> So, what are you going to do about him in the near future?


We are divorced, as of November 2015. So its really just a matter of one of us leaving the martial home. I can afford to stay, he cannot--- my salary is twice what his is. 

We did talk some last night, but I fear it will be the same thing again, where I get a few months of effort, followed by no effort. 

Am I crazy to think that mature relationships plan things? Like for example our fence needs replaces so let's sit down together and talk about how we are going to pay for that. 

Maybe my concept of marriage/relationships is all wrong?


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## Blondilocks

"Maybe my concept of marriage/relationships is all wrong?"

Could be. But, for sure his is. One doesn't just quit their job and expect an ex to support their sorry behind. Get him out before you have to get eviction orders. Don't know why you divorced him but there must have been a good reason. Once around is usually enough. Very few leftovers are truly tasty.


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## VladDracul

But the girl expected him to change Blondie.


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## free2beme14

VladDracul said:


> But the girl expected him to change Blondie.


I guess i just expect him to change back to the person he was, for the first several years of our marriage he was great. Then his Dad died suddenly and he pretty much fell apart. 

So now he knows I'm at that point again, he's putting in effort. Tore down the shed in our back yard, is taking me for a nice dinner on Friday night that he planned out and even called to make reservations (trust me that is huge planning on his part). I just want to tell him its "too little too late"


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## Openminded

Temporary change is easy. Permanent change is not. That's why most people don't change long-term. It's just too much work. Now he's back in temporary change mode because he knows you're unhappy with him so he's making an effort. That will continue until you relax and then he'll backslide again. 

That's what your life will be with him. Temporary periods of change. If that's not what you want, then kick him out again and remember all of this the next time you're tempted to let him back in your life.


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## aine

You should kick him out and explain to him since you are no longer married he must take care of himself, his life is not your concern. If you feel comfortable, yes you can meet, go for dinner, etc but do not exclude the possibility of meeting others. If you are going to let yourself be used like this, then maybe no contact is the best way forward.

1. make him move out
2. put some distance between you
3. contact on your terms (if at all)
4. friends with benefits, etc not a good idea, 

Your XH sounds irresponsible and a bit of a leach. You are 46, you need to get rid of the dross from your life and anything and anyone who does not add to your life.


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## Emerging Buddhist

aine said:


> You are 46, you need to get rid of the dross from your life and anything and anyone who does not add to your life.


At least remove the toxic...


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## Relationship Teacher

Begin again said:


> I suspect he never really wanted to change how he is. If so, it would bother him with how he's acting and he would try to right his own ship. So, unless you are seeing him take ownership of his behavior and self correct, it's time to walk (again).


Sounds like he made promises with his mouth, and he never expended the effort necessary to follow through.

Were I in that type of situation, I'd focus on the things that would get that fundamental change in character. If those things weren't present, then the person in question would inevitably revert to old behaviors.

Humans are extremely predictable. A lot of what we learn is by association. It guides logic and emotion. We then have black and white memory (hippocampus) and colored/emotional memory (amygdala). Based on the associations/conditions our memories formed and are maintained, we can predict how individuals will act/react.

Changing the core of our neural activity is actually simple, but it takes a lot of effort. If someone says they are going to change, then we should see this expenditure of energy. If they say they have changed, and we see no effort having been given, then we most likely have to discount the words.


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## sapientia

I don't see the need for disrespect and "kicking him out". You gave it another try and it's not working out. I would even leave blame out of it. Noone should be expected to change for another. He is who he is, as are you. If he's not what you want and your goals don't align, then sit him down and tell him so. Be firm, but kind. Good luck.


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## SunCMars

Relationship Teacher said:


> Humans are extremely predictable. A lot of what we learn is by association. It guides logic and emotion. We then have black and white memory (hippocampus) and colored/emotional memory (amygdala). Based on the associations/conditions our memories formed and are maintained, we can predict how individuals will act/react.
> 
> Changing the core of our neural activity is actually simple, but it takes a lot of effort.


I liked this response, felt compelled to CROP it...not DROP it.

Science is wonderful, as is Philosophy.

Problem:

Few can grasp it. Few can see beyond a few hundred feet, let alone over the horizon to the Elysian Fields.

*It is not simple if few can DO this*.

Woulda, shouda, couda comes to mind.

People are hopelessly programmed, hopelessly living their Engrams.

Hitting Control, Alt, Delete would be nice....but Clear is not attainable for the Masses or the Naïve Massaged.

The Blame:

Our education system. Values are Val-You's, in the first person.

Selfish is normal....the rest is wishful thinking...woulda, shoulda, couda... innate failings? No, *this is the Norm *under the Bell Curve, for Human Beans....no typo.


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## sapientia

Funny, on the science comments. I would have just stuck to a CJ Cherryh quote about how most people aren't capable of modifying their own deepsets.


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## 3Xnocharm

aine said:


> You should kick him out and explain to him since you are no longer married he must take care of himself, his life is not your concern. If you feel comfortable, yes you can meet, go for dinner, etc but do not exclude the possibility of meeting others. If you are going to let yourself be used like this, then maybe no contact is the best way forward.


Why bother?? This is who he is. Period. Tell him he needs to move out then stop contact. Clean slate to move on.


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## Relationship Teacher

SunCMars said:


> I liked this response, felt compelled to CROP it...not DROP it.


Thanks, Sun



> Science is wonderful, as is Philosophy.
> 
> Problem:
> 
> Few can grasp it. Few can see beyond a few hundred feet, let alone over the horizon to the Elysian Fields.
> 
> *It is not simple if few can DO this*.
> 
> Woulda, shouda, couda comes to mind.
> 
> People are hopelessly programmed, hopelessly living their Engrams.
> 
> Hitting Control, Alt, Delete would be nice....but Clear is not attainable for the Masses or the Naïve Massaged.
> 
> The Blame:
> 
> Our education system. Values are Val-You's, in the first person.
> 
> Selfish is normal....the rest is wishful thinking...woulda, shoulda, couda... innate failings? No, *this is the Norm *under the Bell Curve, for Human Beans....no typo.


The focus on IQ is falling by the wayside. 

Consider the case of bullying. We have effects as bad as suicide from those who receive verbal bullying. The response? Schools implement report and punish programs. The result? no decrease in bullying.

If (when) we take the scientifically sound approach, like the RULER program, we have dramatic improvements in bullying, but also school performance, general well-being and healthier social interactions.

The problem? The current crop of teachers were raised and taught when only IQ mattered and you were either a good kid or bad kid. How can an emotionally UNintelligent teacher provide lessons in emotional intelligence?

Our society sides with those that lash out after voicing their victimhood, never to consider that those "victims" look awfully like bullies, objectively.

The answer? We all have to learn how to use our emotions to make informed, and objectively sound decisions. We need emotion to employ our IQ to its fullest. For this ex-husband in question, he needs to retrain his brain, so that he understands the impact his actions has on those around him, namely his partner. Once he gets to that point, he can act on that understanding and properly fulfill the role that he auditioned for - twice now.


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## *Deidre*

free2beme14 said:


> I guess i just expect him to change back to the person he was, for the first several years of our marriage he was great. Then his Dad died suddenly and he pretty much fell apart.
> 
> So now he knows I'm at that point again, he's putting in effort. Tore down the shed in our back yard, is taking me for a nice dinner on Friday night that he planned out and even called to make reservations (trust me that is huge planning on his part). I just want to tell him its "too little too late"


This is what users do, they use people, especially when they fear that they are upsetting the person they're using. I'd end this, and tell him to move on. You are divorced? Remember why you did that, and realize he is showing you that all over again every time he does this. Hope you stay true to yourself. ((hug))


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## free2beme14

I went back to IC on Tuesday, felt good to get stuff out again (I hadn't gone for 2 months), he said that I have to remember things are different now in that we are not married, and I don't have to go through that same hassle again of divorce. He said I definitely seemed more willing to not take as much for as long as I did before, and that the last 8 months could have simply been XH trying to be different but he just cannot sustain it. I told him how much I had let myself get dragged in, even spending parts of my day applying for jobs for XH when he wouldn't even do that for himself. I told him that after a few weeks I caught myself and stopped doing it and even telling XH how crazy it was for me to do it. I have to remember that I can only control the things I can control, if XH doesn't want to take care of the things he needs to take care of (managing his bills, etc) that is on him NOT on me. 

So looking forward to my week at the beach in 2 weeks!!


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## Openminded

So when are you telling him he needs to move out?


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## free2beme14

Openminded said:


> So when are you telling him he needs to move out?


When I get back from my vacation later this month.


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