# Advice, sujestions, and help need (long winded)



## Wanabeelee (Sep 6, 2011)

I’m new to this form and have only read 50 or so threads. The one thing I have gathered from all the 
reading I’ve been doing is that every situation no matter how similar has different advice and outcomes. 
So I thought I would put my story out there and see if any good comes of it. 
My W and I are 34 years old. We have been married for 15 years and together for 19 years. She was the 
girl next door (across the street) and we really didn’t start talking till we was 15 years old. I meet her at 
drivers ed, and we started out as just friends. Her and her twin sister would come over to swim and 
watch tv/ hang out. She started seeing one of my friends and it didn’t work out so well for her. It was 
then I knew I had feelings for her as I didn’t much like that she was dating this guy but I never let her 
know. When it was over I tried to be there to cheer her up and help her. One thing lead to another and 
in a few months we was dating. 
We talked a lot about what we expected from our relationship and I voiced my strong dislike for 
smoking. I had watched my parents and other loved ones be addicted to smoking and was glad that she 
didn’t smoke, or so I thought. We spent most of our time together and I had no clue that she smoked. I 
did find out a few months, maybe a year that she was smoking when she was out with her friends. I told 
her it was me or the smokes but not both. She assured me that it was me and that she really didn’t like 
to smoke anyway. Over the years I’ve caught her smoking so many times. She would always lie about it 
till I told her how I knew then she would be sorry and say that she would not do it anymore. I would 
always tell her I would not stay with a smoker. 
A year or two into our relationship she was really upset with me that I was going to go out with friends 
and not spend the day / night with her. She broke up with me and the next day she was seeing another 
guy. All that happened is they kissed but when we got back together and she told me, I was really hurt 
by it and could not understand how she could just break up with me and start kissing another guy so 
soon. I felt betrayed and saddened that she didn’t have the same feelings that I had for her. I had only 
seen a few girls before I started dating her and I had never felt enough for them to do more than give a 
peck kiss. She was my first real kiss and I could not have wanted it any other way. We was each others 
first sexual experience and did so quite a lot. 
We married at 19 and got a little house and was living paycheck to paycheck. (not much has changed 
with that point) At 22 we had our first child. She had been wanting to have a child and I was not really 
ready. I would bring up that we was not finically ready and it would make things harder than it already 
was. Without telling me she stopped taking her birth control and made the choice for us. I do not 
regret having our first child but I did and do regret that she deceived me. 
With the new child things did get harder but we pulled though. I did catch her smoking a few more 
times and that just reinforced the feeling that I could not trust her and I started to become more 
controlling. Within a few months she had a blood clot in her leg and I thought I she was not going to 
make it. A few months after that the medical bills and time I took off took a toll on our finances and my 
temper flared and I lost my job. Now with no income and a baby we was grasping for any hold we could 
find. I took odd jobs and she went to work at a clinic. We ended up bankrupt and lost the house and 
cars. My parents had moved to another state so we made plans to move in with them till we could get 
back on our feet. The day we was moving out her sister and her escorted by an officer came to the house so she could get 
some things and leave me. I was devastated. I ended up being arrested for assaulting a police officer 
and didn’t hear a thing from my wife. I did know that she didn’t want to move away from her family but 
my parents was the only ones who offered to help us out till we got back on our feet. I got out of jail 
and the charges were dropped. I then moved in with my parents and started looking for a job. I wanted 
to be able to support my family as I felt I had failed them. I found a job in three days and lost it the first 
day of work. The felony was still listed on my record and I didn’t list it on my application so when I 
showed up for work on the first day I was called in and told that I no longer had a job. I had called her 
often and I didn’t know how to tell her I had lost the job I had been so proud of getting. 
Two weeks into the separation and us talking every day she decided to move up with me. We lived with 
my parents for about 6 months till we got an apartment. ( I had found a job I would keep for a little over 
5 years) In the apartment my wife meet some friends and everything seemed to be going well. I didn’t 
like to go out but she did. I would give her a hard time about spending and she continued to lie to me 
about smoking, and where / how long she would be out with her friends. I got to where I didn’t like her 
going out and would come up with reasons why she could not. Everything seemed to be going ok. It 
had its ups and downs but I thought we worked it out the best we could and that we was soul mates 
made for one another. 
We bought a house and that seemed to make things better. The problem is it took us about an hour 
away from her friends. I was driving an hour to and from work every day. She continued to lie about 
how long she would be gone when she went on girls night out. We had our second child and I took a 
new job for the insurance. She ended up quitting the job she had to become a stay at home mother. 
Having two kids in daycare was too much for how much she brought home. 
After our second child was born we hit some hard times. A lot of it was due to the finical problems, but 
it brought out other problems in our Marriage. We went to MC and started working on our problems. I 
thought that it helped us out a lot. I found out that she was upset that I didn’t help out much around 
the house (I thought I worked and she could work by taking care of the house), we didn’t do things with 
friends cause I was a shut in, and she had to go and do everything with the kids without help. I thought 
that I made a solid effort. We started doing more things with friends, I went shopping with her, and I 
started helping out a bit more around the house. (not helping as much as I should have) I thought that 
our relationship was growing much stronger and that we was in a great place in our marriage. We even 
went on a 15 year anniversary trip to Cancun Mexico. We started watching tv just me and her at night 
when the kids went to bed and started sharing more interest than we ever had before. She continued 
to lie to me about smoking. We came to an agreement that she could smoke at social gatherings. I 
though the hard times in our marriage was over and that we would grow old and gray together. 
About two months ago she started wanting to find a job. I did my best to help her find something that 
would work with the kids and would make enough to cover the cost of daycare. While she was looking 
she started spending all day while I was at work with one of our sons step father. Noting was going on 
she just liked having someone to talk to in the same boat as she was. They both was taking care of the 
kids during the summer break while the SO worked all day. I expressed that I didn’t appreciate that she 
spent all day at another man’s house while I was at work. She got real mad that I didn’t want her going 
over to his house, and could not understand why I could not trust her. We talked about it and I thought 
that we came to an understanding that she would not go over there as often and not stay so long. I 
thought we was finally able to talk though our problems and that we was doing better than ever before. On July 23rd
, Saturday I got up when my wife did, (I used to sleep in while she took care of the kids) and 
meet her in the bathroom. I was so looking forward to spending time with her that weekend because I 
had been working a lot the past week. She told me she wanted to go to the store by herself without me 
or the kids. This hurt my feeling and I got mad as I normally do when my feelings are hurt. I told her she 
could go and I would watch the kids but I was not happy about it. I was able to use her Iphone to find 
out where she was and had used it many times in the past and she knew about it. I called her phone 
after about 45 min, as the store she was going to was 6 min away and she didn’t have much to get. She 
didn’t answer the phone so I looked up where the phone was. It was sitting in the parking lot at the 
store. After another 15 min of the phone sitting in the parking lot I was able to get her on the phone. I 
asked her if she was meeting anyone and she told me she was talking to her sister. (Truth) She was 
pissed that I tracked her iphone and didn’t trust her to go to the store. We got into a fight about it when 
she got home and she told me that she had while at the other mans house used his phone to make an 
appointment to see a lawyer. I was shocked and devastated. She told me she wanted to tell me or not 
tell me after she went to find out her options. I told her that I thought we was doing so much better and 
that we had just went on our 15 year trip. I had also had surgery two months back and was stuck out of 
state for almost two weeks. I told her I was doing more of what she wanted and she told me she just 
was not happy. I begged. I offered to start going to MC again. She told me she just needed to go see 
the lawyer to find out her options and it was something she just needed to do. I told her I loved her and 
if it was what she needed to do then I could not stop her but that it hurt me to know that she did that 
behind my back. Later that day she walked out of the bedroom and said she needed some time to 
herself to think and wanted to go to the mall. I was still hurt from early in the day and then she popped 
this on me. I told her she could have as much time as she needed but I know I didn’t sound happy about 
it. 
She left the house at 6pm and I gave her some space. Around 7:30 the kids started getting hungry so we 
jumped in the car to get something to eat. On the way to get food I called her to let her know if she got 
home and we was not there we was getting something to eat. She yelled at me “SO I GUESS YOU WANT 
ME TO COME EAT WITH YALL” I told her it was up to her. If she wanted to we would love to have her 
but if she didn’t then I understood. She didn’t come eat with us. After me and the kids finished eating 
we went to the grocery store to get what I need to make my home made pizza. It was a please forgive 
me meal that I was going to make her the next day. I was not sure what type of tomatoes to get so I 
gave her a call. She didn’t answer her phone, it just rang and rang. This was getting real near 9pm. I 
tried looking up where she was and it said last place it saw her was at the mall parking lot two hours 
ago. I tried to reach her for another 30 min before me and the kids went to the mall fearing something 
might have happen to her. Her car was not in the mall parking lot and she still would not answer. I had 
called all our friends and family looking for her and no one had heard from her. We searched the Wal-
mart parking lot and two all three ways home looking for her car. I was in a panic and called the cops 
and reported that I was unable to find her and that she had told me she was going to be gone a couple 
hours at 6pm . Its about 11pm now and I’m outside talking to the officer when she called my phone. I 
was crazy relived that she was ok. I asked where she and been and she told me that she had been at 
wal-mart. I told her we had looking though the parking lot at walmart and didn’t see her car. I chalked 
it up to just missing her car as I was upset and in a panic. She came home happy and I told her how 
worried I was. She said she was tired and we went to bed. Next day went good and I didn’t have any 
thoughts of wrong doing. I thought it went so well that she would not go to the lawyer office for her 
appointment the next day. Monday came around and she informed me she was still going to the 
lawyers and it was something she just had to do. I offered to take off and wait on her. She got mad at 
me and so I ended up going to work. I asked that she call me when she got out and let me know what 
she found out was her options and what she thought about them and wanted to do. I received a msg on my phone about being over 20 dollars in txt msg overage when I was at work, so I 
brought up the account and found some information that made me start going into a panic attack. I 
noticed that she had sent three photos to a number I didn’t know and that they txted back and forth a 
few time. I saw that the same number was the last two calls she received before no one was able to get 
in touch with her from 8pm to 10:45pm, and they was two 2 min phone calls to her from this number. 
Also she had an 8 min call to the number before her appointment. I got so scared. I called the number 
and no one answered and it didn’t have a personal voicemail box. I took off from work grabbed some 
change and went to another area code so the number would be from the same area code as the number 
I was dialing. A guy answered the phone. I asked who he was and he bluntly said who was I trying to 
reach and who was this. I told a lie and said I had the wrong number. About 10 min later my wife called 
and said she was out of her appointment and I asked if she wanted to meet for some lunch to talk about 
it. We was paying someone to watch our kids so she said that we could grab the kids and I could take 
off the rest of the day and spend it as a family. All my worries almost went away. We got the kids and 
started to head to get some lunch. I asked her who the number was. She told me the name of the OM 
and said that he was going through a divorce right now and she wanted to talk to him about what it was 
like. So I asked what was the pictures she sent him and asked to see the msgs on the phone. They was 
not there. She said she had removed them cause she thought I would get upset for her talking to him. 
The pics she sent him was of our little girl. They used to stop by his new work so my little girl could see 
him, as she became close to him when my wife was working out at the ymca where he had worked. At 
this time I started thinking her car was not at walmart and that she only had two 2 min phone calls with 
the guy, not enough to talk about anything really other than I am here where are you. While I was 
thinking about that she told me to just drop the conversation that she was tired of me not trusting her 
and that was one of the main reasons she went to the lawyer, and that we was going to work on our M 
and get some MC. I held my tongue and we went to eat. I got more and more upset as we sat there 
waiting on the food didn’t eat anything. She got pissed that I ruined the nice family meal and that I 
always did things like this. We went home and I pulled her into our bedroom and asked her for the 
truth. That the phone calls sounded to me like someone calling to find out where she was so they could 
meet. She told me that they did meet to talk about the divorce he was going through and to help her 
with her choice, and they talked in walmart. I reminded her that her car was not in the walmart parking 
lot and told her just to tell me the truth. She than admitted to following him back to his apartment and 
said they kissed but nothing else happened. I asked her again for the truth. She got made and asked did 
I really want the truth. My fears came to life and I think I started to show some anger as tears started to 
form in my eyes. She told me that she had been talking to him on facebook a few days back and he had 
asked her for a picture of her just for him. She had told him that she was at home and I was in the other 
room and that was not a good idea, maybe another time. That Saturday she msg him as soon as she left 
the house with the intention to meet him and talk about how she was feeling and what going through a 
divorce was like. He was out of town and so they just chatted back and forth a bit. He again asked for a 
picture and she said she was in mall. He told her to go to the bathroom silly. She sent the first pic of her 
just in her bra. He said wow send more. The next two was one topless and one of her butt. (shortly 
after the last picture is when I called about dinner) He said he was getting close did she still want to 
meet. She said she did. He asked her what she wanted to do and she told him she didn’t know. When 
he asked again a little later she told him she wanted to have sex with him. The two calls was him 
meeting her and she followed him back to his apartment. She said they talked for a little while with him 
laying on his bed and she was sitting. She was the one to lay next to him and when hemade to kiss her 
she welcomed it. They had sex for almost an hour. When he was done she got up and wiped him out of 
her, got dressed, talked a few min and drove home to me and the kids. I was so upset I didn’t know what to do. I asked why did she want to put thing back together after her 8 
min phone call with him and her appointment with the lawyer. She told me that she realized what she 
had to loose and wanted to work on our M. At one time she said she should have known better that she 
should have known he was just using her. I told her I would forgive her and by state law if I had sex with 
her I could not use the affair in court. I did forgive her in the eyes of the court. I was still so upset and 
was asking questions and she got angrier and said that the reason she did it was cause she could not 
Fing stand me and she had stopped loving me a long time ago. I was shattered . 
She told me she would only take a car and not fight me for anything. I could have custody of the kids 
and she started looking for a women’s shelter she could stay at. We had to pick up or son from football 
so we went there and it just went down hill from there. I found the pictures on her phone. She had 
deleted the msgs but didn’t clean out her photos. I told her I would pay for a week at one of the hotels 
till she could get some help from her family. She told the kids she was leaving and my son already know 
what had happened and didn’t want anything to do with her. Our daughter age 6 lost it and broke 
down. This was the first time I saw any remorse for what she had done. My wife snapped and broke 
down almost in hysteria. I was backing up her phone and it still had 30 min left. The whole time my 6 
year old was clinging crying so hard you could not understand what she was saying. All the sudden my 
wife got real calm. She said she was ready to go and I could keep the phone. All she wanted was to go 
to the hotel and go to sleep. Her sudden shift in mood and dull tone started to worry me. Plus why 
would she not need her phone. I looked in her purse and found two bottles of loratabs. She said she 
just wanted to go to sleep and to let her go. I got really upset. I called everyone trying to get them to 
talk since into her. I ended up taking her to the ER. We spent 16 hours there before we spent another 8 
at a mental hospital. They agreed to let her go if she was going home with me. I keep an eye on her this 
whole time. I locked up all the pills and keep an eye on her another day. The kids watched her when I 
had to go to work. 
She said she wanted to work it out and would do anything. One week and a day after d-day I got real 
upset over the whole thing and was crying mad. I said something about her cheating and pulled away 
when she tried to hug me. She got upset and yelled that if I was not such an a$$ she would not have to 
fu** other men. I lost it and put a huge hole in the wall. While telling me all of the truth, she said how 
she was nervous at what he would think of her naked, didn’t feel bad about sending the pics at the time, 
enjoyed the kissing and sex, even that they had orgasms at the same time. 
Its been up and down like that for the last month and a half. More things have happened, but she says 
she knows she made a horrible mistake and willing to do anything to prove she loves me and to work on 
our M. every time I start asking questions she starts getting mad and says she has already answered. I 
get hurt more that she is not willing to repeat or elaborate on things I ask. 
Im hurting so bad. I really thought we was doing so good for the last year and we had finally got to a 
much happier place in our relationship. I thought that it was special that we had only been with each 
other. Ive never even kissed another woman much less wanted to have sex with one who was 12 when 
we had our son. I feel she gave up our marriage, family, that something special between us, all so she 
could just have sex with another man. That’s what she says, “it was just sex. It was just kissing.” I have 
always thought sex and kissing to be something very special that you share with the one you love. I 
don’t understand how she could through away 19 years of standing by each other in hard times and 
good, hurt me so deeply, and destroy our kids home just to see what sex was like with someone else. 
How can someone stop loving another for just one day? She says she sees now that the things that had her upset was not that bad and she had it good with me. 
She says she hates herself for what she did and would take it back if she could. 

How do I move past this? I want the pain to stop. I’ve looked up how to make the pain stop and ensure 
her and the kids will be taken care of by the insurance money. I love her so much. And on a side note 
the sex now has been the best it has been in 15 years. I still cant stop thinking about her kissing him 
when we kiss, or think about them having sex when we are.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Wanabeelee I am very sorry that you are going through this ordeal. From one survivor of infidelity to another, you will make it.

If your wife truly wants to work on the marriage, she is going to have to write a NC (no contact) letter to the OM telling him that she will never see him again and have you send that letter. This should be a non-negotiable 

I strongly recommend that the two of you seek out IC (individual counseling). You both have issues of your own that need to be addressed and resolve. You have anger management issues that got you arrested and have probably emotionally alienated your wife. Your wife has issues with dishonesty and trying to rug sweep her affair by shaming you with cruel comments and getting angry when you ask her questions about her affair. Even if the marriage doesn't survive her affair, the two of you have children that need BOTH their parents to be healthy. So for their sakes and yours seek out professional counseling.

You might want to have the following printed out and hand it to your wife. This is a post by Joseph, a member of the now defunct BAN Message Board. He wrote to this letter to his wife to explain why he asked for details of her affair. 




> To Wife's Name,
> 
> I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly.
> 
> ...


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## useable (Aug 31, 2011)

siimple .. divorce the wife.
why marry deceiving woman.


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## Wanabeelee (Sep 6, 2011)

morituri said:


> Wanabeelee I am very sorry that you are going through this ordeal. From one survivor of infidelity to another, you will make it.
> 
> If your wife truly wants to work on the marriage, she is going to have to write a NC (no contact) letter to the OM telling him that she will never see him again and have you send that letter. This should be a non-negotiable


She did so by phone. Plus the guy she had the PA with she didn't talk to daily. He was just someone she had known from work 4 years ago. They may have talked a few times a year in the last 4 years. It just so happened that he was going through a divorce and was there giving her compliments the days after W had decided she needed to know her choices.



morituri said:


> I strongly recommend that the two of you seek out IC (individual counseling). You both have issues of your own that need to be addressed and resolve. You have anger management issues that got you arrested and have probably emotionally alienated your wife. Your wife has issues with dishonesty and trying to rug sweep her affair by shaming you with cruel comments and getting angry when you ask her questions about her affair. Even if the marriage doesn't survive her affair, the two of you have children that need BOTH their parents to be healthy. So for their sakes and yours seek out professional counseling.


We have both seen counseling as a couple and individual. We are looking for someone else to see because we both agreed that we was not being helped at the last one. My temper has changed alot since I was arrested. The hole in the wall was my first out break like that in 10 years. 

I think the kids are the only reason I'm still here, but some times I think that I'm not doing them any good in the shape I'm in. I've lost near or over 30 pounds, and after being able to count the number of smokes I've had on one hand for 34 years I started smoking. Her lieing about smoking has been something that has haunted me our whole relationship and i've come to terms that they are more important than my feelings on the matter. To keep from this bothering me I started smoking too. I know it was not the right thing to do, but it was a quick fix to that problem. We have enough without that being one of them.



morituri said:


> You might want to have the following printed out and hand it to your wife. This is a post by Joseph, a member of the now defunct BAN Message Board. He wrote to this letter to his wife to explain why he asked for details of her affair.


Thank you so much for posting that. It was scarry how the mirrors my feelings. And thank you for taking the time to read and post.


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## Wanabeelee (Sep 6, 2011)

useable said:


> siimple .. divorce the wife.
> why marry deceiving woman.


Useable, 

I dont really understand why you like comeing to this fourm. It seems to me that you are in a lot of pain and like to share in the pain of others. Thats just my take on it. 
Almostrecovered's and a few others post have given me hope that the pain will get better in time. I can say that this form probably saved my life. When there is no hope and 19 years of a world based on an illusion is destroyed, the easy way out starts to look good. 

I am sorry for the pain you must be feeling. I think a lot of people here understand and share your pain. I hope one day that the pain and anger your dealing with turns to peace and love.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Wanabeelee said:


> Almostrecovered's and a few others post have given me hope that the pain will get better in time.


while I am happy you find my story inspiring I do hope you see the fundamental differences in play here that may not give that happy ending you desire


for starters she is not owning up to the affair and tries to blame shift her behavior on you

secondly, she isn't 100% transparent- thus leaving you wondering and without answers


my best advice is to hope for the best and prepare for the worst-

that means you have to put your foot down and not have it be empty threats. You guys have had several separations already so the shock of this will not be enough for her.

complicating matters is her suicidal threats/attempts

But at some point you can't be responsible for her actions on this, especially since you are going to have to send down some tough love. I honestly don't know what to say about this. I wish 8years wasn't banned currently because this scenario is right up his alley. (having that balance of tough love and patience/understanding) But do know that what 8years has done takes an extreme amount of patience and taking a large dose of gut wrenching stress.


I guess the big question to you- is this what you truly want? You have a long road ahead of you if you want R, much harder than me and many others here (and many have decided it wasn't worth it). But the ultimate goal is to have a wife who is willing to do what is needed- and right now you don't have that.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

just to clarify my position on how I feel about R vs D

I tend to give advice that puts the impetus in motion faster so that the end result comes sooner. I believe that not all marriages can be saved and some people refuse to recognize that. I believe that some marriages can overcome infidelity and some people people refuse to recognize that. What it comes down to is taking the action that is needed to find what that is.

Limbo is hell- it pains me to watch others not take the drastic measures they need to get to where they are going faster as it is only torture otherwise.

It's as simple as demanding "him/her or me" with the proper proof and knowledge and how then WS reacts to that. If WS does what is needed for healing AND BS wishes to R then great. If not then I'm sorry to say you have your answer and attempts at R are just spinning your wheels.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> just to clarify my position on how I feel about R vs D
> 
> I tend to give advice that puts the impetus in motion faster so that the end result comes sooner. I believe that not all marriages can be saved and some people refuse to recognize that. I believe that some marriages can overcome infidelity and some people people refuse to recognize that. What it comes down to is taking the action that is needed to find what that is.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

My thoughts exactly!


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## useable (Aug 31, 2011)

Wanabeelee said:


> Useable,
> 
> I dont really understand why you like comeing to this fourm. It seems to me that you are in a lot of pain and like to share in the pain of others. Thats just my take on it.
> Almostrecovered's and a few others post have given me hope that the pain will get better in time. I can say that this form probably saved my life. When there is no hope and 19 years of a world based on an illusion is destroyed, the easy way out starts to look good.
> ...


thanks wannabe .. i do not mind if you do not want to take my advice.

as for me, this is not pain or anger. but i am very surprised as in recent time so many married people have low morality in their marriage. shame and awful, they belittle marriage vows, they deceive their God or priest when they promise for the marriage vows.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

useable said:


> as for me, this is not pain or anger. but i am very surprised as in recent time so many married people have low morality in their marriage.


While cheating sucks, infidelity is not anything recent or new. Sadly, adultery has been happening snice the beginning of time. And it will continue. That is just one of the ways of the world.

If a couple decides to stay together post-infidelity, that is their choice. If a couple decides to terminate their relationship/marriage post-infidelity, that is also their choice.


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## Wanabeelee (Sep 6, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> for starters she is not owning up to the affair and tries to blame shift her behavior on you
> 
> secondly, she isn't 100% transparent- thus leaving you wondering and without answers


Almost, I've never been very good with words. I love how your able to express thoughts, feelings, and real world happenings in your testimony. 

She is telling me the reason she didn't care was due to the feelings she was having that night. (controlled, smothered, angry, trapped) She says looking back that nothing was so wrong to have caused what she did and that I never deserved what she did to our M and our family. She even gos so far as to say that her deceiving me on so many things through out the years was reason enough for me to be the way I was, and she would be willing to do anything to help me heal. It may be my own self doubt that keep me from expressing that in the first long posting or i'm just not that good with words. Everything seems to run together and I cant keep a strait thought in my head. 

She has a very hard time talking about things that are upsetting her. She has always been a pleaser. Keeping things inside till they become toxic. We are both on meds now as I had my first panic attack shortly after finding out about the PA. I do feel she is trying to be 100% transparent but having a hard time trying to explain things she is having problems explaining to herself. 



Almostrecovered said:


> my best advice is to hope for the best and prepare for the worst-
> 
> that means you have to put your foot down and not have it be empty threats. You guys have had several separations already so the shock of this will not be enough for her.


I know I'm sounding defensive. I may be. Its because I do love her more than I think she will ever know. We had 3 days while dating and a few weeks when forced to move. In 19 years it didn't seem to bad for a relationship formed as teenagers. Before finding this form I had no hope, so I'm better off than I was. 







Almostrecovered said:


> I guess the big question to you- is this what you truly want? You have a long road ahead of you if you want R, much harder than me and many others here (and many have decided it wasn't worth it). But the ultimate goal is to have a wife who is willing to do what is needed- and right now you don't have that.


I know that I want to be with her the rest of my life. I know I want the kids to have two parents they can count on in a stable family. I sent her a copy of the letter posted above and she said she will try to help me with my puzzle. That even though she knows what the picture looks like from the box cover she is still having problems putting all the pieces together herself.

Thank you for taking time to help me with this.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Wanabeelee said:


> and she would be willing to do *anything* to help me heal.



then jump all over this and tell her exactly what you expect of her



I've used the following so many times I should really keep this as a file to cut and paste-


1) No contact with OM- none whatsoever- not as friends, not to say goodbye, nothing nada, zip- the only exception should be a NC letter in which she writes stating that she has chosen you and her marriage and thus will not contact him ever again and expects the same from him. If she gets contacted by him then she must ignore it or end it abruptly and then tell you right away.

2) 100% complete and utter transparency- her privacy is null and void. You should be allowed to snoop to your heart's content. She should allow you access to her passwords, phones, computer, etc. If you see her on her phone and you feel itchy about it then you have the right to say, "may I see what you are doing?" She should hand it over right away and not make you feel guilty for asking in the slightest. No more secrecy.

3) She must demonstrate true remorse- Lord Mayhem had a nice chart about guilt vs remorse that I will try to find that for you. She must answer any and all questions you have and she can expect you to ask them repeatedly. She must own up to the affair and realize that is 100% her fault. Marital problems are 50/50, but the affair is all hers.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> Lord Mayhem had a nice chart about guilt vs remorse that I will try to find for you.



ahem 

can't find it


paging Lord Mayhem


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Sorry, but I have a feeling she's more upset that she was caught rather than sorry that she broke your heart. She states that she would do anything to save the marriage. But, she really hasn't been very transparent with you. Get's upset if you bring it up, doesn't want to talk about it or re-hash it.

Here's what you need to do, you need to work on you. Don't worry about her, work on you. Start going to school and further your education and your carreer opportunities. Go to the gym, eat right, sleep right. I STRONGLY, STRONGLY recommend you go to anger management classes. Felony charge of assaulting a cop, punching a hole in the wall......if things ever go south again and you lose your temper, she can EASILY get a restraining order on you and you will have NO CHOICE but to leave.


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

Wanabeelee said:


> She is telling me the reason she didn't care was due to the feelings she was having that night. (controlled, smothered, angry, trapped)


What about the rest of the time she doesn't care?

It sounds like she has betrayed you other times. A lifetime of lying about smoking, secretly quitting birth control in order to have a child without your prior consent, the surprise abandonment when you thought the two of you would be moving away; these deceitful behaviors are all evidence of her total lack of respect for you. She seems to have been entirely willing to completely betray you long before you discovered she was cheating on you. 

From the narrative you shared it seems like you suspect she has cheated on you with other guys. Is this the case? Do you really believe she had sex just once with just this one other man? 

Re: Smoking, have you or her tried bupropion to help quit? It's very effective for many people and has the added benefit of being an antidepressant.


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## Wanabeelee (Sep 6, 2011)

crossbar said:


> Sorry, but I have a feeling she's more upset that she was caught rather than sorry that she broke your heart. She states that she would do anything to save the marriage. But, she really hasn't been very transparent with you. Get's upset if you bring it up, doesn't want to talk about it or re-hash it.


When we try to talk about it I get a why would you want to do this before our sons football game? (2 hours away) So I guess she is saying its ok if we talk about it on her time table. And when I bring up the way she was feeling (ie not caring about me or the kids) she ask why I say things to hurt her. I feel I'm doing nothing more than bringing up what she has told me so we can talk them out and try to figure out why she didn't care. What was so important about having sex with another guy? Why if she was feeling that way did she not divorce me instead of having a PA?



ren said:


> What about the rest of the time she doesn't care?
> 
> It sounds like she has betrayed you other times. A lifetime of lying about smoking, secretly quitting birth control in order to have a child without your prior consent, the surprise abandonment when you thought the two of you would be moving away; these deceitful behaviors are all evidence of her total lack of respect for you. She seems to have been entirely willing to completely betray you long before you discovered she was cheating on you.
> 
> From the narrative you shared it seems like you suspect she has cheated on you with other guys. Is this the case? Do you really believe she had sex just once with just this one other man?


Back when we was dating she kissed another guy in a 3 day break up we had. When we got back together she told me and I told her how much it hurt me. She argued that we was broken up and it was not cheating. Over the past 16 years I've always thought of it as she cheated on our love. I dont think she has ever had any other PA's and that I was the only one she had ever been with up till the 23rd of July. 
As far as the total lack of respect, now that I hear it that way it sounds right. ""She seems to have been entirely willing to completely betray you long before you discovered she was cheating on you."" That does sound right. 

I know that the constant lieing has made me more controlling. It has been a downward spiral for years... I control in order to feel I know what shes doing and she lies more because I control. It may be too late to fix this 15 year trend.



ren said:


> Re: Smoking, have you or her tried bupropion to help quit? It's very effective for many people and has the added benefit of being an antidepressant.


I will keep that in mind. I may need the help myself some time soon.

She's also pointing out to me the things I've done wrong over the years. There are alot of things I would gladly take back. One very bad trip on shrooms that put me in the hospital. I struck her with a phone. I dont remember any of it but her face and the fact when I got back to my room, there was a fan hanging from wires, tv was destroyed along with almost everything else in the room. It was one of the darkest times in my life seeing her swolen cheek and them being told I did that to her.


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

Wanabeelee said:


> Over the past 16 years I've always thought of it as she cheated on our love.
> 
> ...
> 
> I know that the constant lieing has made me more controlling. It has been a downward spiral for years... I control in order to feel I know what shes doing and she lies more because I control. It may be too late to fix this 15 year trend.


It sounds like you've had a sense of betrayal from the start, or a feeling like maybe she didn't really love you (or love you as much as you love her). From the beginning there was that kiss and you've held on to the pain this entire time. You know how pearls are formed? That kiss was fed by years of lying and deceitful behaviors, I think she's been growing your resentment and distrust ever since. Now may not be the time for it, but if you do stay with her I think you will need to learn to forgive her if you want to have a healthy relationship.




Wanabeelee said:


> She's also pointing out to me the things I've done wrong over the years. There are alot of things I would gladly take back.


How do you react when she points out the things you have done wrong? How do you react when she claims you have done wrong and you haven't? What do you think her motivation is for bringing these things up?


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## Wanabeelee (Sep 6, 2011)

ren said:


> It sounds like you've had a sense of betrayal from the start, or a feeling like maybe she didn't really love you (or love you as much as you love her). From the beginning there was that kiss and you've held on to the pain this entire time. You know how pearls are formed? That kiss was fed by years of lying and deceitful behaviors, I think she's been growing your resentment and distrust ever since. Now may not be the time for it, but if you do stay with her I think you will need to learn to forgive her if you want to have a healthy relationship.
> 
> How do you react when she points out the things you have done wrong? How do you react when she claims you have done wrong and you haven't? What do you think her motivation is for bringing these things up?


I dont think it was so much the kiss while dating, but more her not taking birthcontrol without me knowing. That I think is the deception that started the distrust and controling. I think it may have caused some resentment towards my son early on.

Something I left out from the Saturday that the PA happend, is after our fight and after I found out about the appointment she had with her lawyer, I told her I was willing to go to MC, to work on what was bothering her. I admitted to not being perfect, to having flaws and problems but I was willing to try to change. 

When she brings up the wrong doings when we are going over the PA, I always ask was what I did bad enough for her to break our M vows, give up the kids, and give away something special we had in our relationship (only having been with each other) 

I also ask if things was so bad for her why didn't she get a D, instead of having sex with someone who was 12 when we had our fisrt child. (10 year age gap between her and OM)

I feel she is making excuses for the PA. Trying to make her self feel better about what she did.


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## Wanabeelee (Sep 6, 2011)

Update:

She wrote out a letter trying to explain what she was thinking and how she was feeling before, during, and after the PA. I asked her to read it to me tonight and she got mad. I asked her way and was told that she wrote it and read though it 3 times and didn't want to read it to me cause it makes her sick, and hate herself for what she did. How does this work? She dont want to talk about it cause it makes her feel bad, and ashamed? Should I have any sympathy to that?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

No you should not feel sympathetic towards her because you told her time and again where her relationship with the OM would lead and she did not even care. She's ashamed because her view of herself as a good girl has been shattered and now she sees herself in less than flattering terms. But her anger towards you shows that she is not even close to being remorseful for inflicting you with one of the worst kinds of pain a human being can be subjected to. Unless she develops true remorse for what she did to you and her family, the future does not bode well for your marriage.


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## Wanabeelee (Sep 6, 2011)

morituri said:


> No you should not feel sympathetic towards her because you told her time and again where her relationship with the OM would lead and she did not even care. She's ashamed because her view of herself as a good girl has been shattered and now she sees herself in less than flattering terms. But her anger towards you shows that she is not even close to being remorseful for inflicting you with one of the worst kinds of pain a human being can be subjected to. Unless she develops true remorse for what she did to you and her family, the future does not bode well for your marriage.


She didn't have the PA with the man she was spending all day with while I was at work. It was someone she know from the ymca 4 years ago. They had only started talking on facebook for two days (one of them being the day she had sex with him)

In the letter and other things she has put down on paper that she was mad, and felt that if I always thought that she would cheat on me then she might as well live up to what I thought of her.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Wanabeelee said:


> She didn't have the PA with the man she was spending all day with while I was at work. It was someone she know from the ymca 4 years ago. They had only started talking on facebook for two days (one of them being the day she had sex with him)
> 
> In the letter and other things she has put down on paper that she was mad, and felt that if I always thought that she would cheat on me then she might as well live up to what I thought of her.


You thought of her as a cheater so she might as well be one? Really?!?!?!

Gaslighting, blameshifting, cop out excuses....blah, blah..... wasn't worth the paper it was written on. If she doesn't want to talk about it because in makes her ashamed, embarassed or hurt....TOUGH! You didn't ask for this!

SHE made the choice to sleep with another guy. No one forced her. SHE made the choice to end her marriage and break her vows to you; her PROMISE to you for her own selfish gradifications.

She's shown you NOTHING to make you believe that she is truely remorseful for breaking your heart. She get angry if you bring it up!

Dude, I'm a firm believer that actions speak louder than words. From what you've written, it sounds like she wants to sweep it under the rug and continue on as if nothing happened.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

morituri said:


> No you should not feel sympathetic towards her because you told her time and again where her relationship with the OM would lead and she did not even care. She's ashamed because her view of herself as a good girl has been shattered and now she sees herself in less than flattering terms. But *her anger towards you shows that she is not even close to being remorseful for inflicting you with one of the worst kinds of pain a human being can be subjected to.* Unless she develops true remorse for what she did to you and her family, the future does not bode well for your marriage.


Ding ding ding!!!


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

crossbar said:


> You thought of her as a cheater so she might as well be one? Really?!?!?!
> 
> Gaslighting, blameshifting, cop out excuses....blah, blah..... wasn't worth the paper it was written on. If she doesn't want to talk about it because in makes her ashamed, embarassed or hurt....TOUGH! You didn't ask for this!
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

She is not owning up to her selfish behavior which has been part of her life since you met her. As ren so eloquently put it



ren said:


> A lifetime of lying about smoking, secretly quitting birth control in order to have a child without your prior consent, the surprise abandonment when you thought the two of you would be moving away; these deceitful behaviors are all evidence of her total lack of respect for you.


Unless she owns up to her behavior, shows remorse and a willingness to become a better person through IC (individual counseling), the stage is set for another betrayal on her part later down the road. 

What can you do? Not reward her with the knowledge that she's off the hook and that you will not divorce her. Inform her that you have not decided whether or not to file for divorce. This will make her angry but so what? that is the price she has to pay for betraying you. She has to know that her behavior is no longer going to be acceptable and unless she does something to change, that you will not be around. Tough love? damn right it is.


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## Wanabeelee (Sep 6, 2011)

crossbar said:


> She's shown you NOTHING to make you believe that she is truely remorseful for breaking your heart. She get angry if you bring it up!
> 
> Dude, I'm a firm believer that actions speak louder than words. From what you've written, it sounds like she wants to sweep it under the rug and continue on as if nothing happened.


I feel that way too sometimes. It may just be that i'm hurting to much to not highlight the negitive in her letters.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Wanabeelee said:


> I feel that way too sometimes. It may just be that i'm hurting to much to not highlight the negitive in her letters.


It's ok to hurt for we were all once where you are at this very moment. But you'll hurt even more if you do not stand up and say no to her false remorse and her 'lets do nothing and lets just sweep this under the rug as though it never happened' attitude. 

Believe me that most betrayed spouses who allowed their cheating spouses to sweep things under the rug, later on lived to regret their decision. Don't be one of them.


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

Wanabeelee said:


> Should I have any sympathy to that?


Assuming she is being genuine, and considering her history this seems like a bad assumption to make, I do think you should try to find whatever sympathy you can. Not that you should necessarily have any at all, or succeed in finding any, but if she does really feel the pain of true remorse she deserves to have you recognize it. From what you described of the situation it sounds more like she was exploiting your good nature to get out of doing something that made her uncomfortable. Sort of like "it hurts so don't make me do it or you will be hurting me". She was treating your asking her to read the letter like it was a punishment she needed to defend herself from.


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

Wanabeelee said:


> She didn't have the PA with the man she was spending all day with while I was at work. It was someone she know from the ymca 4 years ago. They had only started talking on facebook for two days (one of them being the day she had sex with him)
> 
> In the letter and other things she has put down on paper that she was mad, and felt that if I always thought that she would cheat on me then she might as well live up to what I thought of her.


All of this sounds very odd to me. How certain are you nothing went on between them? 
The whole "living up to what you thought of her" is straight up crazy. You think she actually believes that was a motivation?


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## Wanabeelee (Sep 6, 2011)

It's done. She wants a divorce. Today in the car with the kids she told me she hated me and that she f**ked him cause he was young and hot and she wanted to feel what sex with another man would be like. She was excited he was interested in f**king her and enjoyed it. 

I found a way to get the money I needed to file for divorce. She later came back and asked if I could give her another chance, but she felt like I was not even trying to get over it. 

When I asked her if she even cared how much she hurt me she told me that all I do is Question her answers so much that she dont even know what the truth is anymore, and she could not go though 6 months of questions. She told me that all I do is get upset and cry and I should MAN UP! 

She then told me she would make it easy on me and she wanted the divorce and that is what she wanted way before the affair that she was just scared to be on her on. She is not scared anymore.

I'm going to the lawyer tomorrow.

I think I'm still in shock that she didn't care enough about how much she hurt me to be able to face her own pain to help with mine. I feel numb.

On a side not, last friday she was arrested for demestic violence. I went and spent 2 hours talking to the magister to get the 12 hours waved, and the no contact removed. I bailed her out and we came home. I will be going back and explaining what happened today to see if he will put into effect the no contact till court date. 

I feel dead inside.


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## Wolf359 (Jun 10, 2010)

I do not say a lot ,but You will love your new life, with out her B.S. She is what is called a very selfish high maintenance girl. was she was raised in the dirt or was a 1 child house hold. I also must say, it sounds like she has a very bad mental problem. Stay away from her, she will try to come back to you. Do not let her do it !!!!!!! WARING DO NOT TAKE HER BACK. She needs a few years by herself. What, she is trying to do, is find a man to switch with. She is scared to go in the world alone. So, in her mind, find new male first. Then get car, money food etc... I think she has no real liking for her kids (right now ) SHE WILL SOON. So make sure she does not take your money or stuff to sell. She is going to get desperate real soon, Trust me on that. DO not move out, if you do, the courts will eat you up. Do not pay her bills, she has to do that. I have to say, the first, most important thing to do, hold and love your kids you all will make it. Also keep a log of what is happaning in you life right now, day by day. It will come in handy when you take to your kids when thay get older. Like, daddy why do you do that and leave momma. Well (daughter) it happened like this, get out book you made. It makes it her fault, in the end, years from now.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Wanabeelee,

I am very sorry that you are hurting badly at this moment. The woman you loved and who may have loved you is gone. In her place is a cruel and heartless woman who cares for nobody else - not even her kids. You and your kids deserve better than her.

You will make it. Count on it.


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## Wanabeelee (Sep 6, 2011)

I want to thank everyone for the advice and kind words. I came here to try to save my M and I know now that it is not going to happen. I'm going to drop off the forms as it is a reminder of how much I love and care for my W and wanted it to work out after I lost the one thing that I knew ment we was soul mates.

If anything happens and I need advice or support I will be back, as almost everyone here has shown they care about the feelings and well being of the people lost and lookig for help.

Thank you again for your time and support.

,Brad


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Wanabeelee said:


> I want to thank everyone for the advice and kind words. I came here to try to save my M and I know now that it is not going to happen. I'm going to drop off the forms as it is a reminder of how much I love and care for my W and wanted it to work out after I lost the one thing that I knew ment we was soul mates.
> 
> If anything happens and I need advice or support I will be back, as almost everyone here has shown they care about the feelings and well being of the people lost and lookig for help.
> 
> ...


I am sorry you are going through this. Please note there are other forums (both here and elsewhere) that deal with divorce. Hoepfully you can find help there. I wish you speedy healing.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Good and caring people are not only found on this forum but in TAMs other forums as well, like the 'Going Through Divorce or Separation'. You may want to consider going there and posting your story to get advice and support from those that are in your situation. Good luck.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Wanabeelee said:


> She told me that all I do is get upset and cry and I should MAN UP!
> 
> .


I think she gave you great advice in her anger. You need to shut her down and shut her out. She wants you to man up? Fine, you give her exactly that! See the lawyer, file for divorce. Start looking into dividing up assets. Divide up the joint accounts then close them. Cancel all joint credit cards. File to get full custody of the kids. She shot herself in the foot with that domestic violence charge on her record. You stand a good chance of full custody and you could possibily force her out of the house. If she was violent towards you, who's to say she won't be violent towards the children.

Expose to EVERYONE that you're getting a divorce due to her infidelity. Don't let her spin her own story saying that, " Oh, we haven't been getting along for quite some time now." that's just BS.

As soon as you start this ball rolling and she see's that you had the guts to move forward. She's gonna pop back into the reality of the situation. She doesn't realize how much she has to lose. Once she does, she MIGHT come to you begging to work it out. DO NOT FOLD!!! If this happens, just remind yourself that she willingly slept with this guy because he was young and hot. Remember that she told you she f*cked him AND ENJOYED IT! Keep reminding yourself of that if she trys to get you to reconsider. Personally, that isn't the type of woman I would want to be married to. Hang in there, dude!

A lot of people are here pulling for ya!


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

Damn, that is so cruel. I am so sorry for your loss, I know how bad it hurts and the overwhelming horror it brings, don't ever forget that this was not your fault. You did not deserve this. 
It probably doesn't seem like it right now but this is the beginning of an incredible new life; you now have the freedom to pursue your own greatness and build a better future. You will learn from what you have been through, you will use that knowledge to improve yourself and become the best father your children could ever have and a better husband than your next wife could ever imagine. And your next wife is going to be awesome. It may take awhile before you are ready, but she is out there right now and you are going to have fun finding her. The triumph of revenge for what has been done to you is embracing your liberation, seize your new freedom and discover happiness!


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## lht285 (Aug 25, 2011)

Reading all this I think your wife is a serial cheater. I would actually get your kids dna tested to see if they are your children. 

I don't mean to cause you more pain, but I would also get tested for STDs. I would have absolutely nothing to do with this girl ever again. I know you have known her most of your life, but she has also walked all over you for your entire married life.


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