# Venting because I keep sliding into the abyss



## bobbieb65 (Jan 24, 2013)

Official Dday July 31st 2011, Dday when H admitted to physical contact (w/o sex) Jan 16th 2012 He met this OW the end of Jan '11 and went out to see her in March and April that same year at the establishment she worked as a floor/lap dancer at a LV strip club. Yeah I know, what a shock that a guy cheated with a stripper, but he was stupid enough to have feelings for her and buy into her crap.:lol:

He did tell her he wouldn't be back out to see her for a while, I guess his way of breaking up with her and he looked into sending her flowers but claims he never did  (after he told her she told him her mother had just died...and he says that's why he wanted to send flowers to her:scratchhead This happened before I found out. 

After he returned from his trip in Jan. I knew something was wrong and started asking and accusing to no avail. We had a huge fit near the end of April and we considered splitting up. Then in the beginning of May he left his email open two weekends in a row allowing me to finally be able to find something...just some flirty emails but some others with the intent of getting together while out of town and doing some really questionable stuff with some of his friends while in Vegas This got the ball rolling, either up hill or down I wasn't sure yet. I suggested MC or we separate, legally. He went with MC...big mistake on his part A few sessions into MC he was told he had to be transparent and he agreed. He had always kept everything locked up tight and it was actually months before I got all the passwords, email accts and cell phone records, meanwhile he kept proclaiming his innocence:rofl: He lied to my face and our counselors face time after time until I found a strange LV phone #, it only appeared 6 or 7 times but it was enough. 

I ask who "M" from LV was, found her name after doing some research, and I was ready to hear that she was a work contact out there and that was it. But no, I got the "if you really want to know the truth I'll tell you" line and that was followed by a story that didn't back up the call dates and time Still claimed his innocence and told me, get ready, to call her and she'd tell me the same thing he did. REALLY???? Did he think that I would blindly believe him after all these months of lies, not to mention the prior 18 years of deception and half truths about everything:scratchhead: Well, you can bet your sweet ass I called her a few days later, two days before our 19th anniv. I know it comes as a surprise that his story wasn't anything at all like she told me and it didn't even dawn on me that she was a stripper at the time:sleeping: It wasn't until the next day that I put it all together. I'm not slow, I just think I was in shock

The story was that nothing ever happened between them, they only saw each other 3 times at the club. Then I find out about the texts, never saw them but going from about a hundred a month on average to over 300 during that time frame, well I was quicker to catch that. There was also the fact that the night he met her he told his buddies that they slept together. Then finally in Jan of the following year he admits to making out with her and that she invited him over after her shift. He claims he didn't go but can't prove it either way and this is where I'm stuck. Everything logical points to a PA but he of course denies and after all the covering up he did it's impossible to believe him. 

MC told me that if I want to believe that he did have sex with her that's my choice and he can't change my perception. But if I want to stay in the M and make things work I have to accept this and move forward which, from time to time, I find impossible to do. It's not even the fact he had sex, or with whom or where or when, but just the acknowledgement that he did and having to own up to what he's done. I feel that if he's never held accountable for his actions then he'll be more likely to repeat them. I think he's afraid of me leaving or having to face the pain, or both.

He has changed and has been doing what he should be doing since last fall. It's been a battle and from time to time I question weather I can ever move on from this. I had a bad night with lots of crying and little sleep. He called today and knew something was wrong and guessed correctly what it was. Still, he comes home acting like everything is fine:scratchhead: Why? Because he doesn't want to deal with this anymore, can't be bothered or at least that's my perception


----------



## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Well her is the first thing welcome to the group no one wants to be part of. Now if you don't mind I am going to ask some questions and do a little break down.

1. He had 1 affair he says he made out with her but it points to more.

2. He lied to you and the MC for months.

3. For 18 years he was super secretive about all his buisness.

4. You had to dig and dig to find out what you did.

5. Seems unremorsful and just wants you to just get over it.


Questions

1. How old are you and him?

2. Kids?

3. How long married?

4. Any other affairs?

5. What has he done to show his remorse I will list a few of them below just to see?


Measure of Remorse

1. Transparency in all things email. phone, text, calls the whole thing

2. Letter of remorse with time line

3. No contact letter

4. Is willing to answer all questions without blame shifting.

5. Willing to never have same sex friends EVER again.

6. Understands that your trust is gone and is more than wiling to check in with you throughout the day.

7. No more night out with the guys

8. Exposed to friends and family.

So now that all that is out of the way. You have 18 years of cheating behavior the odds are he has done a lot worse but you just never caught it. Sorry but no one comes here to feel good they come for the truth and that is the truth. Since he seems to not give a damn to tell you the truth then I would say do a poly and expect to get a parking lot confession. Lets be honest it has been a while and you have not moved on. Why? Because you KNOW you don't have the truth and your heart is saying no way I go no further without knowing the truth. Mean while your gut is saying yeah I am with the heart here this dude walk like scum and talks like scum so no more unitl we get the truth. The fact is that you will not move forward on this. Do therapy for years. Go to church. Find enlightenment all that stuff but in your hear you won't trust him because he is a lier you love him that is plain to see but without honesty you will not be able to build a NEW marriage which is where you are at.

We are here for you and can help you get through this.


----------



## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

Never forget.... It's the ones who don't live in the abyss that fear those of us who do. You have the power.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Your husband is a liar and a cheat, period.

He does not sound remorseful and he sounds like he is telling you what you want to hear and rug-sweep. My husband did this too.

You will most likely never be able to trust him again.

With this knowledge, you have to decide whether you want to stay married or work on your relationship with your husband. Either way, the course of your life WILL change.

Read other's advice and stories and it may help but it may be a long road. Don't give up on yourself or YOUR choices.

OH, and please GET TESTED FOR STD's.


----------



## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

If you are crying that is because you are hurting. For me, I'm a guy so my hurt easily becomes anger and I grind it out in the gym. Everyone copes in their own way.

He seems like he really does love you. I know R is hard work. D was very hard and I think R might be harder. He has been doing most of the right things.

He is a guy so he might be a little dense so you might have to take him by the hand, look him in the eye and gently tell him. If I ask you why, you will answer me. If I ask 10,000 times you will answer me 10,000 times. If there is something wrong you will be there for me because frankly you caused it. Betrayal to this degree takes years to recover from and you need to help me because I am worth it. 

I know it's hard. He wants it to be over because he feels guilty and he felt like he did enough punishment. Tell him it's not about punishment. It's about helping you recover. You wouldn't tell someone who is really sick to walk it off... You help them because they need it and you support them because they are worth it.


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

The fact he has repeatedly lied to you tells me he has a deeply dishonest heart. And he is still lying to you.

You hurt because deep down, among other things, you know that not only will he never tell you the full truth, he will do this again if the opportunity arises. 

He has, is, and will continue to break your faith and trust. So you justifiably hurt. 

The hurting will get better once you are rid of him.


----------



## bobbieb65 (Jan 24, 2013)

CEL said:


> Well her is the first thing welcome to the group no one wants to be part of. Now if you don't mind I am going to ask some questions and do a little break down.
> 
> 1. He had 1 affair he says he made out with her but it points to more.
> 
> ...


I posted on another thread (has your spouse cheated more then once) about his mini-EA, maybe a dozen that I know of. He would flirt and invest time into getting a girl to like him enough to make a pass at him or ask him out and then he would dump them. He did this while we dating and throughout our M until about a year ago. And no, I did not know he was doing this, I knew he was a flirt but that was it. He did on a few occasions mention how someone had a crush on him or asked him out but I didn't think much of it until a couple of years ago. Things escalated and during 08-09 he spent about a 1 1/2 "playing" a women who he didn't know at the time was having an A with one of his M buddies. He backed off when the rumor mill started turning and he looked like the person she was having an A with. He also claimed that she made a pass at him during after work function they were at and he turned her down and stopped talking to her after that. Then he A with the stripper started at the beginning of '11. But during all that he had a harem of young girls that he employed and flirted with them to the point everyone was questioning his relationship with one of them. This all came out after he had to go transparent and I started catching onto what was happening. The one girl he employed sounded way too friendly in her VM to him and told him to get rid of her. She finally was let go late last summer and there hasn't been anymore "crushing" as I call it since then.


----------



## bobbieb65 (Jan 24, 2013)

Rugs said:


> Your husband is a liar and a cheat, period.*yep, already know that*
> 
> He does not sound remorseful and he sounds like he is telling you what you want to hear and rug-sweep. My husband did this too.*he's been slow at the reveal but has been remorseful and no he's not telling me what I want to hear
> 
> ...


----------



## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Well the letter of remorse is his way of putting on paper how much he hurt you and that he understands it should be a key stone in any after affair damage control and the time line is him going through and actually giving you his best idea when things started and how the progressed. Both are used against the WS "wayward spouse" to prevent them from lying later that they already told you or that they never said that. It also gives you a timeline to match up with a polygraph.

Let me ask you if he has been having affairs physical that is for you marriage is it a deal breaker? Because given the information you have given it is more than likely that he has done just that. People like this "sorry for the generalization" almost never stop at just EA's they just don't guys want to have sex if given a in they will take it. I would get a polygraph with specific questions that are targeted toward his affair activities. Also the alone time with just the guys that stops those times are used to cheat way to often and he no longer deserves that level of trust.


----------



## bobbieb65 (Jan 24, 2013)

Thank you all for the replies. As for the crying, it's more out of frustration then hurt at this point. The demon I'm fighting is one of uncertainty, the unknown. If he were to tell me the truth would I hear it? Unless I can fit my vehicle with a flux capacitor I'll never know exactly what did and did not happen. As for a polygraph, I don't think that would work on him although he says he would do it.

And as far as him doing this again if given a chance, I don't think it's likely. We had a really crappy M before this and he still wanted to R and save it but never say never.


----------



## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

bobbieb65 said:


> Official Dday July 31st 2011, Dday when H admitted to physical contact (w/o sex) Jan 16th 2012 He met this OW the end of Jan '11 and went out to see her in March and April that same year at the establishment she worked as a floor/lap dancer at a LV strip club. Yeah I know, what a shock that a guy cheated with a stripper, but he was stupid enough to have feelings for her and buy into her crap.:lol:
> 
> He did tell her he wouldn't be back out to see her for a while, I guess his way of breaking up with her and he looked into sending her flowers but claims he never did  (after he told her she told him her mother had just died...and he says that's why he wanted to send flowers to her:scratchhead This happened before I found out.
> 
> ...


Please don't be offended, but is your husband a little slow on the uptake?

You have been with him over 18 years so he must be an adult....At least legally....

Pardon me while I have a good laugh at his expense, but he actually thought *a Las Vegas stripper would WAIT for him.....:rofl:*

I have heard it before, but this is the most outstanding example I have seen in a while......*You just can't make this stuff up*....

I guess that among all the horny pr!cks that hit on her EVERY SINGLE NIGHT....She could tell by his soulful eyes that HE really meant all those sweet nothings......

No doubt her heart is now broken in a thousand little pieces.......

If he had gone around to her place, he would have either starred in a video he didn't know was being filmed (blackmail)...

or he would have kissed the business end of a blackjack, and woke up with his pockets turned inside out, and all his credit cards missing....

If those girls hooked up with 1% of the guys who hit on them, 
their feet would never touch the BR floor, and they would need a turnstile on their door.......

I would insist that he take a polygraph....Tell him you will welcome him home with open arms the day he passes one......

I'm sorry but I don't think this one is a keeper.......

Go with your gut

the woodchuck


----------



## bobbieb65 (Jan 24, 2013)

@Woodchuck, laugh all you want, I do! She was just doing her job, which is to make men think that she's into them. Hey, if it's the only way you can make money, so be it I think she was trying to make him one of her regulars that would see her once a month when he was in town and I'm sure he oversold his net worth:rofl:

He bought it hook(er), line and sinker! Luckily the only thing he brought back from Vegas was oral herpes that he was nice enough to give to me. I called and talked to her for almost half an hour and actually felt kind of sorry for her...she's older then me and does this for a living and no matter what she says, her ex has custody of her only child. But I will say this, he met his match for being deceptive and I don't think he will ever forget that:rofl:


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your husband is a liar. He is probably a serial cheater as well. You've put up with this this long already, so you may have the fortitude to continue with it, but you sell yourself very short if you do. He thinks he can easily dupe you.

He reminds me of a serial cheater who was on this board recently whose wife finally discovered what he was really like. He said, 'I had always been able to pull the wool over her eyes & just figured I could do it again. She wasn't buying it anymore, though.'


----------



## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Bobbie,

I recall posting on an earlier thread of yours but to be honest I have lost track of your story.

I'm sorry for what you are going through. 

All I will say for the moment is the one who cares the least has the power in the relationship. Power does not equal control, you can only control yourself.

Power is an authority to set boundaries and consequences.

That's you now.

There is a wide range of boundaries you can set for the relationship.

For example, no more business trips, no contact with opposite woman on ANY social level. All passwords, etc.

To be effective a boundary has to be a hill "you will die on"

This means you need to be willing to walk away. This can be for a week or a separation or a divorce. Maybe he leaves and stays with a parent or a motel (Motel? I know that's scary, but there are ways of keeping him accountable)

I say that just so you don't box yourself in.

You can require a timeline of every person and full disclosure, etc.

I'm sure you are aware of most of this, but maybe a reminder is helpful. Don't feel powerless, you sound like a very good person and you deserve the truth and a loyal spouse.

I sense that in your heart you want to save this, he needs to see what kind of person he is, that usually happens when,
1. They suffer consequences.
2.They see how they have damaged, others, opportunities, relationships.

I'm not making a recommendation but just giving you something to think about.

At some point you may need to detach from him to find your balance and evaluate your situation. Are you familiar with the 180?

I wish you well, take care.


----------

