# here we go again!



## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

I have posted here a couple of times and been regularly reading other posts. A little bit of history; H had PA that lasted a few months (that I know of) and I was told about it by someone who saw the together. Before finding out I suspected and of course he denied, denied, denied. I had not discovered this yet so I went about it all wrong. We decided to try to mend our relationship and MC for a few months. There was some improvement but I felt I was doing most of the work. 

A few months ago I looked at his history on his computer and saw that he had been on porn sites and possible dating sites. I did not confront him because I needed more information. 

I have suspected he was up to his old ways again so I attempted to put a keylogger on his computer but that didn't work; I am not very computer savvy.

I have had a gut feeling that he was cheating again and I started to keep track of his patterns and checking his phone periodically. Last night I checked and found a message from the original AP saying she can't get him out of her mind and she wishes she could be with him but she knows that is not possible. 

I confronted immediately because I felt I did not need any more evidence. I told him that any sort of contact with her would be cheating in my eyes. I did not tell him about seeing the text message but I told him I knew he was still in contact with her. Of course he denied it so I called the AP in front of him and she told me "I have tried to leave him many times" and I have proof if you want it. Then she went on to say that I need to talk to him and not involve her and I think she is right. The only reason I called her was because he kept denying anything has happened. Anyway, I told him he would have to leave and we would go our separate ways (we are common law). He left last night and spent the night at his office. 

We talked this morning and continues to deny everything. I told about the text message and he denied that also. I told him that is how I got her phone number. I told if none of this was true, then three of us should get together and he can defend himself. Of course that didn't go over well. He refuses to meet with her. He says it doesn't matter anymore because he is moving out. 

I think I will be fine but I am so worried about my daughter. She is 5 and will be starting school on Monday. What a sh1tty way to start kinder. Why do WS not think about the consequences to their children????

My other concern is that I am starting to doubt my self. What if it was a random text from her? Any thoughts? I just want to make the right decision but I feel selfish for removing my daughter's father from her daily life.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

He's continuing to cheat and is completely unremorseful.

Go retain a lawyer and have him served with divorce papers. Find out who the OW is and name her in the divorce petition. Then rake him over the coals in the divorce.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> He's continuing to cheat and is completely unremorseful.
> 
> Go retain a lawyer and have him served with divorce papers. Find out who the OW is and name her in the divorce petition. Then rake him over the coals in the divorce.



They are common law, not married.

Probably still need that lawyer though to get child support and whatever share of joint assets.


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## jenglenn (Jan 31, 2013)

She sent that message to him...did he respond?. Looks like she is trying to get his attention again... this is why I believe the AP's are truly sick pups they just keep coming at them over and over again like a freaking drug dealer...just my opinion.


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

jenglenn said:


> She sent that message to him...did he respond?. Looks like she is trying to get his attention again... this is why I believe the AP's are truly sick pups they just keep coming at them over and over again like a freaking drug dealer...just my opinion.


I think there might have been a conversation going on and he was deleting but did not see the latest response. I saw it when he went to shower. The reason I think they are at it again is he has been texting ALOT lately and he keeps his phone on himself at a all times. He slipped up that time and left on his desk. I think if he was not involved with her he would be willing to confront her and ask her to stop. He even denied the message. I hope I am doing the right thing by asking him to leave. I wouldn't have doubts if there wasn't a child involved.


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## jenglenn (Jan 31, 2013)

Is there more than one AP? 

What AP says is complete BS good or bad. Please don't use that their input on making a decision for you family. Their story does not add up anyway she's tried to end it why sent a message like that? 

I don't know how to take his behavior, it does look like old pattern but you need something more concrete than that.


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

another reason I think they are still involved is that sometimes I smell perfume on his clothes, especially his pants. I know I am crazy to smell his clothes but that is how I started to suspect the first time. The scent has been the same every time. Every time there was perfume on his clothes he always had a bizarre story to go with it. I never told him about the perfume I would just ask him about his day.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You are doing the right thing. Stop making excuses for him. Stop second guessing what everyone can easily see. He's in an affair and has been for awhile. He's been lying to you. Consistently. Stand up for yourself. Maintain your pride. You deserve someone who is loyal and honest. Do you think somehow that you are destined to live with a liar? Why? Who said you had to live like that?

Get rid of him for good and start your new, improved life. Do the 180 to help you on your way.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

He's cheating. Cheaters lie. They lie outrageously. They say black is white and see nothing wrong in doing so, because *you* are the one standing in the way of what *they* want.

Get rid of him. You deserve better.


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

jenglenn said:


> Is there more than one AP?
> 
> What AP says is complete BS good or bad. Please don't use that their input on making a decision for you family. Their story does not add up anyway she's tried to end it why sent a message like that?
> 
> I don't know how to take his behavior, it does look like old pattern but you need something more concrete than that.


I think there is just the first AP. It concerns me that WH says he is not having an affair but when I asked him for the three of us to talk and get the story straight he said no way. I know if I were being falsely accused I would try to prove my innocence especially if my family was about to be destroyed.


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## jenglenn (Jan 31, 2013)

bluerunner said:


> I think there is just the first AP. It concerns me that WH says he is not having an affair but when I asked him for the three of us to talk and get the story straight he said no way. I know if I were being falsely accused I would try to prove my innocence especially if my family was about to be destroyed.


I disagree. There are other ways that he could prove things to you. Getting the three of you together is horrible idea. And he is not going to go for that - what a buzz kill. Who would want to fuse reality and fantasy. He has probably made it out as if he had not relationship with you at all...like you guys were already over.And for him to sit and discuss with both is not something I think he'd ever agree to- he has to smell like the rose here and that would show him for the true ass he has been to both of you. The only good that could come from that is it would probably kill the affair dead instantly. That'd be nice but he is not going to make anything easy for you. You are above discussing this situation with AP.


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

jenglenn said:


> I disagree. There are other ways that he could prove things to you. Getting the three of you together is horrible idea. And he is not going to go for that - what a buzz kill. Who would want to fuse reality and fantasy. He has probably made it out as if he had not relationship with you at all...like you guys were already over.And for him to sit and discuss with both is not something I think he'd ever agree to- he has to smell like the rose here and that would show him for the true ass he has been to both of you. The only good that could come from that is it would probably kill the affair dead instantly. That'd be nice but he is not going to make anything easy for you. You are above discussing this situation with AP.


I think he has told her we were over. She didn't know about me the first time around and he begged me not to tell her. So I sent her a text message telling her he was in a relationship and had a child. I suggested we meet because if he accepted then he would be more believable (in my eyes). The more I analyze our relationship the more I realize they have continued their affair. We have had trouble re-connecting; hard to do when there is a third person involved.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Take a look at his phone records? If he's got nothing to hide, he'll give them up willingly. If he's hiding contact wil her, he won't.

I suspect you are close to the truth now though anyway. 

C


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

PBear said:


> Take a look at his phone records? If he's got nothing to hide, he'll give them up willingly. If he's hiding contact wil her, he won't.
> 
> I suspect you are close to the truth now though anyway.
> 
> C


we no longer share cell phone accounts (my idea) but when we did he did not give me the password (he was the primary account holder) so I had to call and have the phone bill sent to our home but once he found out, he changed pass words and I was no longer able to order paper phone records. BIG RED FLAG right?? I know him he won't give me the phone records. He isn't resisting moving out so to me that is another red flag. I told him if he is not having any contact, of any kind with her then he could stay and he said he was just going to move out. For some reason he finds moving out and destroying our family easier than proving himself or coming clean.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

bluerunner said:


> we no longer share cell phone accounts (my idea) but when we did he did not give me the password (he was the primary account holder) so I had to call and have the phone bill sent to our home but once he found out, he changed pass words and I was no longer able to order paper phone records. BIG RED FLAG right?? I know him he won't give me the phone records. He isn't resisting moving out so to me that is another red flag. I told him if he is not having any contact, of any kind with her then he could stay and he said he was just going to move out. For some reason he finds moving out and destroying our family easier than proving himself or coming clean.


If he's not being open and transparent, your only choice is to assume the worst case scenario. That should have been part of any reconciliation conditions when the first incident came to light.

C


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

PBear said:


> If he's not being open and transparent, your only choice is to assume the worst case scenario. That should have been part of any reconciliation conditions when the first incident came to light.
> 
> C


You are right. I went about it all wrong the first time I found out. I wish I knew about this site then. After we tried to R I told that I will view any sort contact with her as infidelity and he would have to move out. So now I have to deliver or he will continue to with this behavior. Last night I felt so relieved when I asked him to leave and today I feel a little sad.


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

just asked for the phone bill and the answer was no! He said "it won't make a difference, I am moving out anyway". I think he relieved I asked him to move out.


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## jenglenn (Jan 31, 2013)

bluerunner said:


> You are right. I went about it all wrong the first time I found out. I wish I knew about this site then. After we tried to R I told that I will view any sort contact with her as infidelity and he would have to move out. So now I have to deliver or he will continue to with this behavior. Last night I felt so relieved when I asked him to leave and today I feel a little sad.


Hold onto that relief you feel -that is a big sign too. Try to stay busy. I started a second job and online classes. It helps to spend time on things that have nothing to do with them.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

bluerunner said:


> I have posted here a couple of times and been regularly reading other posts. A little bit of history; H had PA that lasted a few months (that I know of) and I was told about it by someone who saw the together. Before finding out I suspected and of course he denied, denied, denied. I had not discovered this yet so I went about it all wrong. We decided to try to mend our relationship and MC for a few months. There was some improvement but I felt I was doing most of the work.
> 
> *A few months ago I looked at his history on his computer and saw that he had been on porn sites and possible dating sites.* I did not confront him because I needed more information.
> 
> ...


Dear bluerunner,

It appears from what you say that the only evidence you have of his continuing to cheat is the "message from the original AP saying she can't get him out of her mind and she wishes she could be with him but she knows that is not possible" and his being "on porn sites and _possible_ dating sites (italics added)."

Do you have any other evidence? If not, perhaps you did act precipitously.

Regarding you daughter, you have no right to remove her father from her life and, by doing so, you are actually harming your daughter's development.

I understand and sympathize with your situation and I believe you have reason to suspect that your WH may be continuing to cheat on you, but I do you think you should be a bit more reflective in the future about the possible consequence of your actions, especially as regards your daughter.


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

carmen ohio said:


> Dear bluerunner,
> 
> It appears from what you say that the only evidence you have of his continuing to cheat is the "message from the original AP saying she can't get him out of her mind and she wishes she could be with him but she knows that is not possible" and his being "on porn sites and _possible_ dating sites (italics added)."
> 
> ...


Let me clarify, he will still be in her life and involved but just not in the house, living with us. But it still kills me inside
As for the cheating, the AP told me she tried to leave him many times before, who knows how credible she is. WS has refused to be transparent, I just asked again to see the phone bill and he flat out said no. IMO if there has not been any contact besides that one message, which he also denied, he would have showed me the phone bill. I just don't understand why he would deny the message after I saw it.


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

carmen ohio said:


> Dear bluerunner,
> 
> It appears from what you say that the only evidence you have of his continuing to cheat is the "message from the original AP saying she can't get him out of her mind and she wishes she could be with him but she knows that is not possible" and his being "on porn sites and _possible_ dating sites (italics added)."
> 
> ...


there is also the issue with perfume on his clothes. During the first affair, he denied everything even after I had receipts, the phone bill, and perfume on his clothes. He did not admit to anything until I had a witness. Until then he kept telling me that we were doing fine in our relationship and I was crazy for "accusing" him. He used the excuse of me "falsely" accusing him as an excuse for him detaching. After the affair came to light, I found out he had called her (phone bill) for several days after I demanded he stop all communication with her. He denied that also and quickly took my access to the phone bill away. I handled the recovery poorly.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> Then she went on to say that I need to talk to him and not involve her


She had sex with your husband. I would say that she's already pretty much involved, in any case.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

If he wanted to save your relationship he'd give you the phone bill and face your anger over what it shows.
Let him go. If he has a change of heart, he will be begging. Perhaps when you start dating he'll suddenly realize he loves you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> If he wanted to save your relationship he'd give you the phone bill and face your anger over what it shows.
> Let him go. If he has a change of heart, he will be begging. Perhaps when you start dating he'll suddenly realize he loves you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you. I needed to hear that. I am starting to struggle with my decision. There have been a couple of posts that make me wonder if I made the right decision. I know they are only giving me their opinion because I am asking for it and I appreciate everyone's advice. Yesterday I was confident I made the right decision and today I am doubting myself.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I was an AP... You're making the right decision.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

There was a woman whose husband had an affair with a 23-year-old colleague. She was desperate to hang on to him. He moved out. 

He went back and forth on the idea of reconciliation and even reluctantly broke off the affair.

The terms of the divorce were good to her. Finally at a school event he asked her if she was seeing anyone. She answered truthfully. 

The next day he was on his Kees with roses. But felt no desire for him

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> There was a woman whose husband had an affair with a 23-year-old colleague. She was desperate to hang on to him. He moved out.
> 
> He went back and forth on the idea of reconciliation and even reluctantly broke off the affair.
> 
> ...


I think I remember that. I kept up with the thread and could see her strength growing everyday. I hope I can be that strong. When I see my daughter with her father my heart breaks. And I am angry because of his behavior and lack of transparency, he has put me in a position that I must choose to make him move out and the person most affected will be my daughter. I feel so selfish for making the decision but I am so tired of wondering where he is, will he smell like perfume tonight, will I find a text message from OW. I am so on edge sometimes that I think it negatively affects my relationship with her, I am not as patient with her when I am having those moments and she doesn't deserve that; she is innocent child living in the mess we created.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

bluerunner said:


> I think I remember that. I kept up with the thread and could see her strength growing everyday. I hope I can be that strong. When I see my daughter with her father my heart breaks. And I am angry because of his behavior and lack of transparency, he has put me in a position that I must choose to make him move out and the person most affected will be my daughter. I feel so selfish for making the decision but I am so tired of wondering where he is, will he smell like perfume tonight, will I find a text message from OW. I am so on edge sometimes that I think it negatively affects my relationship with her, I am not as patient with her when I am having those moments and she doesn't deserve that; she is innocent child living in the mess we created.



And choose you must. Sucks but he left you no good options.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

bluerunner said:


> I think I remember that. I kept up with the thread and could see her strength growing everyday. I hope I can be that strong. When I see my daughter with her father my heart breaks. And I am angry because of his behavior and lack of transparency, he has put me in a position that I must choose to make him move out and the person most affected will be my daughter. I feel so selfish for making the decision but I am so tired of wondering where he is, will he smell like perfume tonight, will I find a text message from OW. I am so on edge sometimes that I think it negatively affects my relationship with her, I am not as patient with her when I am having those moments and she doesn't deserve that; she is innocent child living in the mess we created.


File for D and put the pressure on him. The other woman may not be more than sex, ego and entertainment. You are probably going to lose affection for your H as this drags out. And even if he ended it, he may have poisoned your relationship fatally.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Again your fear is in the way of dealing with this quite quickly and finally

If he loves you, your daughter and wants it all to be good he will do whatever you ask to make you trust him fully. He will not be offended or angry he will / should do what ever you need to be satisfied. He should not have a problem with that. 

It's that simple 

If he does anything that makes it in any remote way difficult then show him the door because you're effectively in for a hell of a life with him and eventually you will leave him anyway - just that you will go through more years of lying blame shifting and all the rest of the garbage that a cheat throws at you


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

Headspin said:


> Again your fear is in the way of dealing with this quite quickly and finally
> 
> If he loves you, your daughter and wants it all to be good he will do whatever you ask to make you trust him fully. He will not be offended or angry he will / should do what ever you need to be satisfied. He should not have a problem with that.
> 
> ...


I wish he would be completely transparent. So far he has only offered to show some emails confirming he was where he said he would be but to me, that confirms nothing. He still will not let me see the phone bill which I feel has the information I need and it is probably going to confirm what I already know and he knows that. He is picking what information he shares with me and only wants to share what benefits him. One good thing that did happen last night is that I slept like a baby. It has been so long since I have been able to sleep like that. He is usually not home when I go to bed and if he is, he is working in his office so I was always wondering where he really was or if he was texting her while I was sleeping. Last night I didn't wonder and I didn't care. I really liked that feeling of peace. I was also so much more patient with my daughter, I especially liked that. I hope this is a sign that I am making the right decision.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

bluerunner said:


> I wish he would be completely transparent. So far he has only offered to show some emails confirming he was where he said he would be but to me, that confirms nothing. *He still will not let me see the phone bill *which I feel has the information I need and it is probably going to confirm what I already know and he knows that. He is picking what information he shares with me and only wants to share what benefits him. ..........


There you go - that's enough case over 

It's straightforward "either you give me everything NOW or we're done" 

And if after this he suddenly starts giving you any info you know he's already 'dealt' with it deleted it

Be in his face right this second and if he will not show this stuff then really, you're finished 

He's making this quite easy for you imo


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

Headspin said:


> There you go - that's enough case over
> 
> It's straightforward "either you give me everything NOW or we're done"
> 
> ...


your right! his actions speak louder than words and his refusal is saying "I'd rather leave than own my actions". I don't want to ask him for phone bill anymore. I have asked about 4 times, I feel like I am begging. He is still moving out, he is looking for a place close to our house to be near our daughter.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You are making the right decision. Say this confidently to yourself as many times as it takes for you to move forward with it.

Your WH will gaslight you until you are asphyxiated, so stop questioning yourself. Your eyes, ears, nose & the brain in your head are not all lying to you. From what you've said, it is completely obvious that he is with another woman. Stop doubting. Just let him go. If your true concern is your daughter rather than yourself, she will be much better off with a stable home with you in it than a home in constant upheaval because of the pain of infidelity.


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

Just a quick update. I had been struggling with my decision of asking WH to leave and today I am no longer struggling. I texted the AP and asked her if they had been involved throughout the year and to my surprise she called me and told me exactly what I needed to know. They had never broken it off. I know she is not lying because she knew some recent details that only WH knows. She is also surprised to learn that he lied to her about our relationship Imagine that? Any way I feel great about my decision now I just have to be able to my daughter and hope she adjusts well.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I'm sorry, it was obviously a false R.
Get rid of this piece of garbage ASAP.
Lawyer, tomorrow.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

bluerunner said:


> Just a quick update. I had been struggling with my decision of asking WH to leave and today I am no longer struggling. I texted the AP and asked her if they had been involved throughout the year and to my surprise she called me and told me exactly what I needed to know. They had never broken it off. I know she is not lying because she knew some recent details that only WH knows. She is also surprised to learn that he lied to her about our relationship Imagine that? Any way I feel great about my decision now I just have to be able to my daughter and hope she adjusts well.


Welcome to the first day of your new life. Sorry it had to happen this way, but you've done the right things in making your decision.


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## bluerunner (Mar 22, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> Welcome to the first day of your new life. Sorry it had to happen this way, but you've done the right things in making your decision.


Thank you, I feel empowered now. I look at WS and he seems to be having a hard time with things especially now that things are not going well with his AP since I filled her in on details of my own. It feels good to be in control of my situation.


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