# Conan's damage



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I posted on a thread yesterday and found myself being brutal again. Gasp! I know, big surprise. I was immediately challenged by a fellow TAMMER about my harsh assessment of a flaky and faithless girlfriend.
@Lila was the member who talked to me about my post and I believe she has valid points. I have some damage.

I am going to share some of my damage about this particular subject because I believe it is a real issue and it isn't just 
young people behaving normally.

I have always treasured love and commitment. From early on, I never saw myself dating multiple partners and certainly not having multiple sex partners.

I knew then, and still do, that the elements that are attractive enough in a woman to warrant my attention were not to be found between the sheets. Sex was a culmination, an apex point of no return consummation for life to me. It is precious, to be respected, cherished and protected.

What I actually found people doing in practice broke my heart. Girls wanted me to give them a couple beers and take their clothes off. They did not cherish themselves and thought nothing of trying guys out like the flavor of the month.

Girls I had respected and liked really fell a long way in my sight. With everyone behaving like something I cherished and prized was nothing more worthy than a party favor, I decided to just start in myself. I started having sex very half heartedly and it didn't do anything to change my point of view that it was wrong.

I mostly ignored it for a while and then along came Molly(not her real name). She, quite simply, captured my heart. Tall and graceful, dark curly hair, dark soft eyes and the most beautiful smile. We were 16. She and I shared a class together and it was soon apparent that there was something beautiful between us. 

We never had sex because I wanted something real with her and still thought of sex as the ultimate consummation for life. I respected her.

She had some kind of problems at home and wanted to marry. I knew we were too young and told her we had more than enough time. Unbeknownst to me, her family was putting pressure on her to marry and get out of the house. It was a very country setting and they were ready to sign off on their 16 year old daughter to marry.

She started talking about a guy that was 22 and had a job. I did everything in my power to convince her not to do it. That it was wrong. She was convinced though and went through with it. He was an unattractive, boorish lowlife and she had no love for him while he had a fresh 16 year old in the sack.

It didn't work of course and a couple of years later she tried to get back with me. She was still married though and too much water had already passed under the proverbial bridge.

During those two years, I stopped caring if I lived or died. I wasn't suicidal but lived on the edge. I didn't pursue women but bedded close to 60. I was damaged to the point that I didn't believe in love or lifelong commitments. I had seen nothing but trashy behavior to reinforce my views.

I avoided women that I thought could be hurt and women that just wanted to play musical bed partners. I was never with a woman once she was attached to me and then with someone else. The practice disgusted me and still does. 

I mostly avoided the type but a couple times a woman was dating me and wanted to break it off to date someone else, just to try them on for size. I was always honest with them, saying I wasn't ok with it but they decided to give another man a try.

I walked away and never looked back. It was very interesting that they often wanted to get back with me soon after their ride on a new guy. That is all it ever was. Simply wanting to f around. Stupid, selfish and promiscuous behavior.

I might have been damaged but I valued myself too much to be treated like that. It still bothers me that people want to write it off as normal behavior for young people. It is normal behavior for lizards in my book.

Now I know that there are many here on TAM that talk about sexual compatibility and having to try others on for size until you find a good match. This isn't your thread. I am not like you at all.

I am good in bed. Very good. I am good in bed because it is inside me to be. I didn't learn to be good from multiple partners. I can bring the heat out of any woman that doesn't have a serious health problem.

I didn't need to have multiple partners to develop in that area and this thread isn't about that.

I have seen this crappy behavior play out for decades with lame excuses about youth or whatever being thrown about.

My youngest son recently went through this. He had his girl and they had been together for 3 years and living together for 1.

She decides she wants to have sex with other guys for a while. This information was verified. She thought she could play around getting f'd for a while by other men and then settle down. My son was ready to propose and told her not to do it. That she had his heart and he wanted to marry her. She loved him, cried, was touched but was convinced she was too young to settle down and just had to have some more penis before saying "I do."

Broke his heart and she did go get her penis. So happy for her. After a while, she started making noises about getting back together with my son, even talking to Mrs. Conan about it. MY son wanted nothing to do with her ever again and who can blame him?

This girl was fantastic. She was loving, responsible and respectful towards us and her own family. She just hopped on the stupid train of thought that playing the field is some right of passage.

My son got scooped up by a drop dead gorgeous woman that was friends with my sons ex. She waited for about 8 or 9 months for him to come down before making her move. She was disgusted with her friend's behavior as well.

I admit that I am damaged. I can be extremely brutal in my assessment of people behaving this way. To be fair, I am not easy on men who behave this way either.

I have embarrassed and even had more than words with some piece of **** that convinced a girl he loved her and dumped her after he got what he wanted, in some cases it was the poor girl's virginity.

Anyhow. This is my view. I don't think because I call trash what it is that it makes TAM a woman hating place. I hate trash regardless of gender.

I still believe that sex is to be cherished, prized and protected. These are only my views and here are some of the reasons I post the way I do.

I am sincerely sorry to have offended some with my crude rhetoric. I am working on it.

Thanks. Conan.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Hey Conan: I am hard and straight in most of my comments when they are directed to males, basically, somehow similarly like you, but for a whole completely reason.

I can understand the coming strong from your way of seen things due to your life' experiences. But just as I recognise on my own posts sometimes instead of helping the OP we come up as a put-off that all it does is hurt more the person seeking advice, doing a disservice to them, specially since we do not have all the facts in a lot of cases. Myself, I'm starting to include the disclaimer "based on what you have posted" to give them the premise that the response is only based on their conveyed information.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Thanks @Rob_1

I agree and am definitely working on my dialog.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

If they are trash, then you are trash too, no? 

So maybe instead of "do as I say, not as I do", you might try drawing from a place of understanding.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You Sir....

Are way out of, beyond my league.

But not out of my mind..
The imaginative, in outer, in another place mind.

I had only slept with a few and then was captured by the sweet smelling enemy.

I could have outrun them.
But my shoes, chose to run sideways, backwards, then I was caught.
Then I was owned.

I did not pick lucky.
Lucky was picked for me.
Picked for me by friends on the other side.

I was taken.
Taken down. Whether I liked it or not.

Do I like it?

SunCMars lays in the desert, face down.
His dusty, sandy ghost nostrils yet today, suck in more silicon into his reverse, perverse hour glass.

The answer, my answer is that women save the day....or end it.
At least most, no less for me...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

wild jade said:


> If they are trash, then you are trash too, no?
> 
> So maybe instead of "do as I say, not as I do", you might try drawing from a place of understanding.


The difference between my younger, self destructive self and the people wanting to play the field was I only bedded women that came to me for it, were established party girls and they knew I didn't share.

A few wanted more and I moved on, I was a damaged Ahole, but a couple wanted to play with others and then come back.

The trashy behavior I talk about is the idea that jumping in a bunch of saddles is a good practice.

I freely admit I was a male ho but never a backstabbing cheater or someone that could love someone but want to screw others just to try them out.

I don't ever try to claim that my former, promiscuous behavior was anything other than destructive and fruitless.

Telling someone you love them, committing to them, living with them for years and then just wanting to climb into someone else's saddle for a while is simply vile.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> I posted on a thread yesterday and found myself being brutal again. Gasp! I know, big surprise. I was immediately challenged by a fellow TAMMER about my harsh assessment of a flaky and faithless girlfriend.
> 
> @Lila was the member who talked to me about my post and I believe she has valid points. I have some damage.
> 
> ...



Thank you for posting this. While others may or may not agree with your thoughts on this, it helps others understand your point of view if they see where you are coming from. How your thoughts on the subject developed. 

This post also shows that you have great empathy for others and a willingness to learn, grow and become a better person. Not that you aren't already a smart, strong and great person, but we all have room for growth. 

This post also demonstrates your ability to be vulnerable, to put your SELF out there, which is refreshing. 

I find that being an amazing, rock the house off its foundation lover, has a lot to do with knowing my own body (and mind) VERY VERY well, being perceptive and attentive to cues from him, being able to communicate well - with words and especially without words, and being open for adventure.

Like you, I find that being a great lover has a lot to do with wanting to be a great lover.

Good on you for valuing your SELF!

Thank you for posting this!


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## Aspydad (Oct 17, 2013)

I think we are all basically the result of experience. Some of us are effected by lost love more than others it seems as we are each unique in our personality. In my youth, I too was one who would fall head over heels - and actually would only date girls who I thought were potential marriage material - was very picky. My first girlfriend was very beautiful, bubbly personality, and actually very smart. I was 17 and she was 15 (I a Junior and she a freshman even though she could have passed for 20.) The downside was that this girl came from a broken home, her mother would sleep around (sometimes would leave my girlfriend alone the entire weekend - would just leave town) so my girlfriend had really a bad influence in her life. I am a pretty logical person, and I always worried that my girlfriend would turn out like her mother - but, I gave her the benefit of the doubt. Well, our relationship did come to an abrupt halt as I caught her cheating on me - and when I did I dropped to her like a rock. Although this girl was not my first love, I did have strong feelings for her - she was my friend and i was just crushed. I did the 180 and did not talk to her for three years. About three years after the initial break up, I actually took her out on a date once and came back to her apartment and some sexual fun one more time. However, next weekend is when I met another girl who ended up being my first love - so I did not call girlfriend #1 back after that. However, girlfriend #1 did tell me that the reason she cheated on me was to get back at me for telling her that I embarressed of her. I know the instance she was talking about - I never corrected her - but, the reason I said that is because we were at a country dance place and she was flirting with the band and I was jealouse - so instead of saying that I went up to her and told her she was embarrassing me - so she gets mad and then next weekend invites one of my friends over to her apartment to make me jealous - well it worked. 

Although I am allot older and wiser now - I still have this trigger - hurts just to remember the feeling of being cheated on - so I completely empathize for those who have been through this experience. I actually really look up to those on this TAM forum who have been cheated on and are working to become better people and overcome their insecurity / damage that this awful activity can cause.

Point is - is that this experience effected me at that young age. I ended up losing my first love due to the fact that I was insecure - this girl was just getting over another guy and I new this. after about six months of dating we had a disagreement - and she told me that she was scared and was confused - still might have feeling for her last boyfriend - well thats all it took - I did the old 180 again - did not talk to her for two years - cut her off completely. Come to find out (as she actually contacted me) that she was crushed and was actually in love with me. Well, it was too late - I was already with my wife to be. Even with my wife to be - she actually went for a ride in a car with her old boyfriend after we had been dating for about three months - I drove up and caught her getting out of the car - and yes I did a 180 - I was crushed - I was done with her just like with the other girls I had dated and if it was not for her best friend and roommate - I know we would not be together today. Her best friend found out as my future wife was in their dorm room balling her eyes out - the roommate called and explained that the old boy friend got a new car, and wanted to take my future wife for a ride in it - and that was it - and my future wife only wanted me. So I went to see her and she got back in my good graces - I believed her. I almost lost my wife (whom I have three children and have been married for going on 30 years) due to my insecurity caused by this first experience of a girl using her body to hurt me on purpose.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

@ConanHub

So you're forgivable and understandable because you have a backstory and context that justifies sleeping around? But no one else does? They're just "trash"?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

wild jade said:


> @ConanHub
> 
> So you're forgivable and understandable because you have a backstory and context that justifies sleeping around? But no one else does? They're just "trash"?


Ok. I was definitely trashy. I have never denied it.

But I never cultivated a relationship, told her I loved her, played house for a couple years getting her to commit to me and then say I wanted to have sex with other people to play the field for a while, because I was young or had a right of passage to go through.

I think convincing someone to love you enough to marry you and then just wanting to f around before you settle down is some of the most vile behavior, throwing away treasure for trash.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

@ConanHub

I get what you're saying. I'm just trying to help you locate that corner of empathy in your heart that might allow you to approach people with a bit more understanding. 

I actually haven't read the thread that you are talking about in your OP, but it's clear this is a trigger issue for you. The question then becomes why. 

Issues only become trigger issues when there is unresolved and very deep hurt. 

Have you forgiven yourself for being "trashy"? Is there any way you might forgive your first girlfriend for having a back story or context of her own?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

@ConanHub, I'm sorry that you were not able to find a compatible woman who shared your values when you were younger.

They do exist. However, I do believe there is a rite of passage, or maybe a general expectation, for women to give up the cookie early in a relationship, as a sign of good faith, respect, attraction, whatever. This notion perpetuates throughout my gender, especially at the college age and 20s. Now some women are very staunch in their beliefs in waiting, as you were. I'm one such. I've had an overall low number of partners and out of the whopping 4 was/am married to two. However, many of my peers would not wait, they'd snag some very available men (but maybe not necessarily good men), and those like me were left looking, looking, looking. It's just a fundamental difference in choice. Does it make them any worse off than me or vice versa? Well, individual mileage may vary but it's not really for me to judge. Instinctively, I'd answer no to both ways. 

So I suspect that your journey was always fated to be a longer and more arduous one than most, because of your preferences. Unfortunately for you, somewhere along the way you compromised on those values. I'm not having a dig, it's just a choice you made. Maybe it was a bit of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em?" And now you say it likely damaged you. Again, not for me to say, but if you acknowledge that, then it's simply a part of you and your past. How you live now and moving forward is what matters, tempered by those past lessons.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Conan, I loved your post. I wish there were more men out there like you. 

I believe in men and women having value. I believe in monogamy. I don't believe in playing the field when it comes to sex.

I have been married twice. 

I have had sex with 2 different men.

That is it.

My first marriage busted because of his abusiveness to me and our kids. 

I was just talking with my husband last night. Alot of times it seems women who have had too many partners have trouble truly bonding with anyone. They seem to spend their life jumping from one partner to the next. It's sad.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

wild jade said:


> @ConanHub
> 
> So you're forgivable and understandable because you have a backstory and context that justifies sleeping around? But no one else does? They're just "trash"?


Jade, 

Please do this, it needs to be said.
To be pulled out of the drawer and to be re-read.

It is unbridled passion that is the blame of this.
Of holding another, if just for a second of bliss.

And looking into their eyes...and just
Falling in.

The Typist-


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

We also have to consider the effects of oxytocin...especially women who are highly orgasmic and have multiple orgasms in each sexual encounter...with each orgasm and flood of oxytocin, it bonds us to the man we are with. That is just biology and something we have no control over.

If such women are having sex with lots of different people just for the physical release and do not consider whether or not he is a good person for us (he could be an abuser or not good/healthy for us in any number of ways), we bond to that man due to the oxytocin, which makes it hard to part ways afterwards.

I recently read that the oxytocin released with each orgasm with different men, is actually what makes it hard for women to bond to and be faithful to, one man. 

The oxytocin can work for us or against us, depending on our choices.

I will try to find the articles and link as soon as I leave the gym.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I posted on a thread yesterday and found myself being brutal again. Gasp! I know, big surprise. I was immediately challenged by a fellow TAMMER about my harsh assessment of a flaky and faithless girlfriend.
> 
> @Lila was the member who talked to me about my post and I believe she has valid points. I have some damage.
> 
> ...



you aren't damaged Conan. You are brutally honest and we need more of that on here and other forums.

If we had more people like you in society, it would be a better place.

Look, I didn't think you were brutal yesterday. I actually disagreed with Lila. However, some people can be tactful without being harsh, but some people coddle and come off as weak and some are very very tough. 

I have tons of respect for you and don't think you need to apologize for anything. 

I hated what happened to your son and morals in society have gone to he11. 

I do appreciate your story and explanation. I get triggered too. No problem with that. 

Hang in there and keep being yourself. BTW I have gotten better at thinking before hitting 'enter' over time here and on SI.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

wild jade said:


> @ConanHub
> 
> I get what you're saying. I'm just trying to help you locate that corner of empathy in your heart that might allow you to approach people with a bit more understanding.
> 
> ...


As they say in some circles, we can despise the act and the lifestyle without despising the person.

Even if we ourselves are guilty. We are all hypocrites to one degree or another unless we are devoid of morals. 

But I get your point. Everyone has a story.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

wild jade said:


> @ConanHub
> 
> I get what you're saying. I'm just trying to help you locate that corner of empathy in your heart that might allow you to approach people with a bit more understanding.
> 
> ...


I have absolutely forgiven Molly and mostly just feel sorry for her. She realized what she threw away and for what too late. Her marriage dissolved after her attempt to get me back and I don't think she ever remarried.

I can mostly laugh at my destructive phase now but I still experience sharp pain over a couple of ladies whose hearts I smashed casually.

I will always have a huge issue with vile behavior being referred to as anything but vile.

It isn't being young, it isn't making mistakes, it is vile and selfish behavior.

Referring to it as anything else is disrespectful to the people getting their hearts torn out.

I'm not talking about just sleeping around a bit. I'm referring to committing to someone then deciding you want to play.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Way too hard on yourself.

I find it difficult to understand....this is difficult to put into words. 

I see some asking why someone can't find forgiveness for someone whose actions they abhor. I don't think forgiveness means more than acceptance. I mean, forgiveness doesn't mean you have changed your mind about disliking what they have done. It simply means you aren't going to try to hurt or harm them for their preferences which are different than yours and which you don't like. 

This also does not mean that you won't attempt to see a different perspective, so that you can relate to their feelings and beliefs. How you do that is important to successfully making yourself understood well. 

I think you can influence others to understand you with a different technique and still remain true to your beliefs.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I also believe, when you find compassion for yourself without losing your beliefs or convictions, you will succeed in your struggles with yourself and with those you desperately wish to help.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> @Lila was the member who talked to me about my post and I believe she has valid points. I have some damage.


 @ConanHub, do you think that my comments and follow up response to your pm were were implying you are damaged? Because that was not my intent at all and I apologize if that's how you understood it. 

My intent was to explain that words have consequences. They can be used to incite different emotions depending on the individual. Know your audience and more importantly the power of words. 


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I think, when compatibility is important to two, and sex is a priority, then one who has great sexual experience cannot find compatibility with one who has not. Helping others to understand that it is not due to the number of partners, but the coldness which must have crept into the heart to allow such physical activities without becoming bonded for life, which is the wall separating the two seems all the more difficult, yet vital. 

In this manner, right and wrong don't come into the picture, neither do shame nor embarrassment. It's simple truth. Unless the two have been given some deep understanding and incredible ability for empathy, I simply don't see a couple of this type of disparity working out. They cannot see love the same. They will struggle with acceptance of each other once their sexual desire requires some work.....and it will. 

While there may be absolutely nothing wrong with either, compatibility is greatly diminished. Yes, one can become a great lover simply by being attentive, loving, and caring with their partner. Being that these two inexperienced individuals must learn trust, it will be a slower process. All the while, it builds and strengthens the bonds between them, creating a deep bond that cannot be broken. 

This, I believe has less to do with honor and dignity. Honor and dignity can be found in the realization that you are not compatible and removing yourself from that person's life, or keeping yourself from doing things which they might see as attractive. While we can't control how they feel about us, we have the ability to refrain from encouraging any. 

It is not a gender issue, but a human issue that we all can and do make choices about each and every day.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> @ConanHub, do you think that my comments and follow up response to your pm were were implying you are damaged? Because that was not my intent at all and I apologize if that's how you understood it.
> 
> My intent was to explain that words have consequences. They can be used to incite different emotions depending on the individual. Know your audience and more importantly the power of words.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that but I didn't actually like how I felt about it afterwards.

I obviously don't mind blunt and to the point talk, even crude, but I can probably refine it a bit.

I don't want women thinking I hate them or want others to.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I remember the passage, "22*You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

And also, "34*“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35*For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
****a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36*****a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]
37*“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38*Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39*Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
40*“Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. 41*Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward. 42*And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.”

We all have to decide for ourselves. Don't we?

Not sure what those asterisks are hiding or why, but to read it all, use this link: https://www.biblica.com/bible/niv/matthew/10/


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

That's the thing Conan, in my view, everyone is different and not everyone is worthy of love, maybe in the future they may be, but many times, not at present. I know I'm not, I'm a sociopathic ex-crim who will never be emotionally available. Sex to me is nothing but scratching an itch, I'll sleep with anyone I want, whenever I want, and forget about it. The reason I prefer one partner at a time compared to multiple partners is because I found the sex better. Friends with benefits where both partners can learn each other's triggers and bodies is MUCH better than one night stands. Hence I believe you when you say you don't need multiple partners to be good in bed.

Still, sex to me means nothing, so does love. I've tried it once, I was married, but I married because of our child, not because I loved her, even though I tried my best to. I was lying to myself and society's expectations. As for the women running off seeking to get fked by other men, I'd even applaud them, and you know why? Because they were honest about it, and gave you the plug to pull. MANY, and I mean MANY women would not do this, they will do it behind your back and your son's back.

I'd say live and let live, there's enough variety for all of us, those who are genuinely ready and worthy of love, and the others, who are happy to be treated like cumbuckets and I'm more than happy to oblige.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

I also want to add, that it is possible for women who have been sexually active with many many many different men to later find and keep and deeply bond with and be faithful to a long term partner.

I don't understand why it is possible for some women and not for others, but there is a lot I don't understand in this world.

Perhaps it is as simple as their particular chemical makeup in their oxytocin...I don't know...

Also, we can all have "Value of SELF" as a core belief and differ greatly in how we "Value our SELF".

For some, that may be expressing our sexuality with few partners.

For some, that may be expressing our sexuality with many different partners.

For some, that may be remaining celibate.

It is not for me (or anyone else, in my opinion) to judge how someone else defines how they "Value SELF".

What matters is how YOU define it, for your SELF.

Know thy SELF.

Trust thy SELF.

Value thy SELF.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

There are areas which are of great importance to the ability of a long-term relationship to last. Being that most of the major authors of relationship advice tend to emphasize compatibility, I'll simply say that there are areas which two can never be compatible when they are so different. 


I do not disagree that men and women who both have been sexually active and promiscuous can find, keep and deeply bond for life with a partner who has lived similarly. I believe they can be and are faithful to each other. 


I do not believe promiscuity is necessary for great sex between two people who have chosen to commit to a life-long relationship. If the two are not compatible for sex by having a strong chemical attraction for each other, nothing will help. When respect, trust and love(faith, hope and love) grow stronger over the years, so does the ability and desire to please each other. I can't think of anyone who would not be frustrated with a partner with greatly less experience, and not do their best to change them before they are ready. Growing together within a relationship is part of what makes the bonds stronger and encourages respect. 


_All_ humans are valuable, even those who are criminals or those who are saints. We may have to look for that value, but it is there. 

We value ourselves through the way we live.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I think its awesome that you value sexual intimacy. But as I have gotten older my opinions on a lot of things have changed. I did used to think that finding a partner with a low number of partners was a good thing when I was younger. But I've changed my thinking on that. Its something that doesn't matter to me at all anymore. The only thing I think I conclude about a person that likes to sleep around a lot is that they like sex. I don't think it means they are damaged, nor do I think they are dirtying themselves by choosing to live life on their own terms.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Who ever said anyone was damaged or dirty? Is that how "incompatible" translates in your language? lol derp


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

wild jade said:


> @ConanHub
> 
> I get what you're saying. I'm just trying to help you locate that corner of empathy in your heart that might allow you to approach people with a bit more understanding.
> 
> ...


OMG. This isn't complicated. He disdains cheaters. Everyone should.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Who ever said anyone was damaged or dirty? Is that how "incompatible" translates in your language? lol derp


Well....being honest its all the same to me. We live in a very PC time. It's fine that we all find certain behaviors and traits in other people as incompatible with us. Was only pointing that not living a virtuous life from a sexual standpoint doesn't make someone a deviant. I got no beef with Conan, but....his comment about that woman's "birth canal" in that thread was over the top IMO. Obviously it struck a chord with him too, its why this thread exists. To me his comment did show that he thought she was dirty...or damaged in some way.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> Well....being honest its all the same to me. We live in a very PC time. It's fine that we all find certain behaviors and traits in other people as incompatible with us. Was only pointing that not living a virtuous life from a sexual standpoint doesn't make someone a deviant. I got no beef with Conan, but....his comment about that woman's "birth canal" in that thread was over the top IMO. Obviously it struck a chord with him too, its why this thread exists. To me his comment did show that he thought she was dirty...or damaged in some way.


Yeah. Anyone that says they love someone, shacks up with them and then decides they want to go play are lower than dog crap.

Not ever going to say different.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> Well....being honest its all the same to me. We live in a very PC time. It's fine that we all find certain behaviors and traits in other people as incompatible with us. Was only pointing that not living a virtuous life from a sexual standpoint doesn't make someone a deviant. I got no beef with Conan, but....his comment about that woman's "birth canal" in that thread was over the top IMO. Obviously it struck a chord with him too, its why this thread exists. To me his comment did show that he thought she was dirty...or damaged in some way.


I didn't see it. We can all go over the top at times. I'm sure he has been reflecting. You know what though? Knowing Conan, he'd rather you asked direct questions. Thanks for the heads up. I'm probably always going to be on Conan's side, anyway. I know what he could be like, if he let himself. I accept him and his efforts, knowing what he can be. 

Sometimes, life surprises. Sometimes the bear bites us. Life is a series of unfortunate happenstances woven together into an afghan of pain and sorrow mixed in with some comfort and warmth. 

I'm sure the woman is savvy, if I am guessing correctly. She is no dummy or child. She's got an opportunity to tell him how she feels and ask for an apology. That's the little bit of good which might come out of this for her. 

For Conan, he can find a bit of humility with grace and simply keep on learning. It's life. It sucks. No one was permanently injured. Thank goodness. 


ha!, and I thought it was a standard TAM thread about personal philosophies. I'll go wipe my shoe.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Yeah. Anyone that says they love someone, shacks up with them and then decides they want to go play are lower than dog crap.
> 
> Not ever going to say different.


I guess I don't see it as that black and white. I don't condone what she she did at all, but I don't think most people male or female can make that type of commitment at that age, at least not realistically. I think the subject in that thread got the same treatment as a BW that strayed after years. Its not really an apples to apples comparison IMO.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I posted on a thread yesterday and found myself being brutal again. Gasp! I know, big surprise. I was immediately challenged by a fellow TAMMER about my harsh assessment of a flaky and faithless girlfriend.
> 
> @Lila was the member who talked to me about my post and I believe she has valid points. I have some damage.
> 
> ...


Which thread are you referring to?

I had a couple of thoughts when I read it. First of all, why do you feel you need to apologize for having a particular point of view? I have not read a post by you that requires any apology: maybe I missed it.
Secondly: I am trying to make sense of your story: so there was a girl who you fell in love with and she wanted to marry/settle down with you but you turned her down (or felt you were too young to settle) so she settled down with someone else instead. This hurt you so you then decided to sleep around (fair enough) but then criticise the women at the same time for this type of behaviour. Why? They do it willingly and knowingly (as did you, presumably). You didn't have to sleep with those 60 'promiscuous' women, did you? They didn't force you I guess.

Btw who did you marry in the end?

Everyone is 'damaged' to some extent. I would call it 'shaped by life'.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Thanks for that but I didn't actually like how I felt about it afterwards.
> 
> I obviously don't mind blunt and to the point talk, even crude, but I can probably refine it a bit.
> 
> I don't want women thinking I hate them or want others to.


Which women? :scratchhead: Is somebody else 'moderating' your posts?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Which thread are you referring to?
> 
> I had a couple of thoughts when I read it. First of all, why do you feel you need to apologize for having a particular point of view? I have not read a post by you that requires any apology: maybe I missed it.
> Secondly: I am trying to make sense of your story: so there was a girl who you fell in love with and she wanted to marry/settle down with you but you turned her down (or felt you were too young to settle) so she settled down with someone else instead. This hurt you so you then decided to sleep around (fair enough) but then criticise the women at the same time for this type of behaviour. Why? They do it willingly and knowingly (as did you, presumably). You didn't have to sleep with those 60 'promiscuous' women, did you? They didn't force you I guess.
> ...


I wasn't upset about promiscuous women. I was upset about treating something precious like trash.

Molly traded love for a convenient fix. It was a betrayal of herself, me and what was between us. She figured it out too late.

I got pissed on another thread about woman that said she loved the OP, lived with him and then on the advice of a cheating friend, decided to try another guy on for size.

She was at least having an EA before it blew up and it pretty much sucked.

I said something derogatory about her treating her birth canal like a garage.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Rick Blaine said:


> OMG. This isn't complicated. He disdains cheaters. Everyone should.


Except that at least half his OP has nothing to do with cheating, but with promiscuity, and the name-calling related to that.

Now it's also fine to say that he just disdains promiscuous people too. But then my question all of sudden becomes fairly pertinent.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I wasn't upset about promiscuous women. I was upset about treating something precious like trash.
> 
> Molly traded love for a convenient fix. It was a betrayal of herself, me and what was between us. She figured it out too late.
> 
> ...


According to your OP, Molly wanted marriage, not a convenient fix. And you weren't ready to give that to her. 

Did Molly actually cheat on you? Or did she just break your heart?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I wasn't upset about promiscuous women. I was upset about treating something precious like trash.
> 
> Molly traded love for a convenient fix. It was a betrayal of herself, me and what was between us. She figured it out too late.
> 
> ...


Hold on, but I thought "Molly" was not trying other guys 'for size', she went for ONE older guy to settle with (because her parents wanted her to get married and you didn't feel ready to settle)? 

Not all women do that (I am sure that's also obvious). When I met my wife, she was 15 and I was 16. She never slept with anyone else, nor have I. We didn't get married till about 8 years later (though we did have sex eventually a year into our relationship) and she never felt she needed to try other guys for size (nor I needed other girls). 
Different women/men have different requirements. It's also possible that Molly didn't feel that the love was as special for her, as it was for you, since she couldn't wait any longer.

I don't quite understand this and the relevance of the 60 promiscuous women you had to sleep with afterwards (as in, how they are relevant to Molly since she wasn't like them? She just wanted to get married while other women in your story wanted to sleep around it seems). Though I do understand how something like this can shape one's perspective. I still don't think you need to feel apologetic. 

Some people seem to assume the role of moderators around these boards for reasons I cannot grasp. As long as you are not deliberately insulting anyone, people should just mind their own business instead of telling you what you should or should not post.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I said something derogatory about her treating her birth canal like a garage.


Well, my wife's garage for example is only able to accommodate one and the same car, day in, day out 
Not sure it is the best analogy and even less sure it is derogatory because of this.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

wild jade said:


> According to your OP, Molly wanted marriage, not a convenient fix. And you weren't ready to give that to her.
> 
> Did Molly actually cheat on you? Or did she just break your heart?


Molly was being pressured by her family to get married and move out. Her family sucked.

She did not love the man she married. She didn't cheat on me, just broke my heart and hers as well.

She admitted she made the wrong choice for the wrong reasons when she tried to get me back 2 years later.

I ran into others that wanted to take someone else for a spin while thinking to pick back up with me later.


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## TheOriginalAlphaOmega (Nov 16, 2017)

I don't think you damaged at all, Conan. I think you have wisdom. Well, maybe your damaged, but we are all damaged. It's what we do with our next footstep that begins to re-define us.

If I'm speaking honest, I 100% agreed with your post. I think that at that age, people are too young to get married. People are too young to have a serious relationship. Both Guys and Girls should be, at that age, working towards their careers and travelling and making themselves the best person that they can be. 22 is too young to be tied down in a serious relationship. At that age most don't even know what they want....and then they "settle" for "what's good, right now". Then, they find the "next best thing", but unfortunately, they stick around in their current relationship while they test out that next best thing, because it's safer that way. Both guys and girls...


While I think perhaps a lot of posters thought it was harsh.....it just reinforces my ideology that people hate getting "offended", regardless of what the truth is. People don't want to hear the truth, and when they do...they call you "offensive". They claim it's hurtful to "feelings" and such.

I used to be like that. Today, I would rather someone call me an Azzhole to my face and just get it out in the open, instead of sugarcoating everything like happens a lot in this decade.

Well....let the hate posts come my way. You won't offend me. 

Take care Conan. Don't beat yourself up over that post. I thought it was direct and to the point. And had more than a thread of truth to your reply.

AlphaOmega


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I posted on a thread yesterday and found myself being brutal again. Gasp! I know, big surprise. I was immediately challenged by a fellow TAMMER about my harsh assessment of a flaky and faithless girlfriend.
> 
> @Lila was the member who talked to me about my post and I believe she has valid points. I have some damage.
> 
> ...


Your story doesn't make sense. 

So you think robbing banks is terrible and then you go and rob 60 banks? 

Sorry but saying you believe something and then doing the opposite usually makes me question your conviction. Conviction takes action. 

Also your son's girlfriend wasn't fantastic, she sounds pretty typical he is much better off.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Your story doesn't make sense.
> 
> So you think robbing banks is terrible and then you go and rob 60 banks?
> 
> ...


Yup. I actually never pursued one of them. I had different interests and was preparing for a career choice that probably would have insured I didn't live to see 30. I met my wife when I was 20 and she changed my mind.

I was filled with anger and pain and did not care if I lived or died. Letting some aggressive women in my bed during that time was an expression of how little I cared for myself.

I lashed out after years of bad behavior being shoved in my face while I tried, alone, to live and believe like there was something better.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Conan,
I believe it to be a matter of perspective and maturity. You have come to see the relationship between a man and a woman (love?) as precious again, as you did prior to Molly. To define the vagina as a "birth canal" implies a different conceptualization of that organ. It takes on more significance than a "*****" or "****" or what have you. In a familial environment it is indeed the passageway for new life entering the world. The term signifies the more important purpose of that body part in a "loving" relationship, just as "parking garage" signifies a temporary condition, lacking permanence. The two are in opposition and therefore contradictory.

I fully understand the reference and am of the opinion that as adults we must be able to face truth. Too many times we try to sugar coat and soften it, which diminishes consequences to varying degrees. Our society today is sorely lacking in consequences, hence the perceived "freedom" for some to act as they see fit. Laws and consequences are not for the maturely cognizant for they are unnecessary, they are for the weak minded and those lacking the ability to clearly discern right from wrong therefore, consequences are an integral part of the deterrent factor.

As to your being "damaged", I find that to be again, a matter of perspective. The events that have made you the person you are today were all part of your journey and, as individuals of varying degrees of development, each path is different. The best we can hope for is to use our experiences to make us better today than we were yesterday and better tomorrow than we are today. Based solely on your posts, as I do not know you personally, you seem to be heading in that general direction.

There is a line from a movie, the name of which escapes me presently, which is "you want the truth, you can't handle the truth". It seems this is becoming our societal motto. So then, if one cannot handle the plain truth then we should soften, buffer, disguise or even overlook it so as not to cause them consequences? I do not feel that is the most prudent course of action and am of the belief that it will ultimately do much more harm than good.

Also, I have read some of your posts that suggest the WS needing a spanking and I wholeheartedly concur but since that is not practically possible then a verbal spanking will have to suffice. I believe that part of your bluntness is for, shall we say, shock factor and emphasis to that end and I find nothing wrong or improper about that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> . Alot of times it seems women who have had too many partners have trouble truly bonding with anyone. They seem to spend their life jumping from one partner to the next. It's sad.


I just wanted to make a quick comment on this statement above. 

I have heard this described as a person being like Scotch tape. When someone has sex with somebody, it is like they "stick" to that person. If they are then peeled away for whatever reason, they still have some adhesion left and are able to stick to something (ie someone) else again; but each time they stick to something and are peeled away, the adhesion becomes less and less until ultimately they are unable to stick to anything effectively at all anymore. 

I do think there comes a point where that is true. 

But whether that point that occurs is at 2 people or at 200 I do not know.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TheOriginalAlphaOmega said:


> I don't think you damaged at all, Conan. I think you have wisdom. Well, maybe your damaged, but we are all damaged. It's what we do with our next footstep that begins to re-define us.
> 
> If I'm speaking honest, I 100% agreed with your post. I think that at that age, people are too young to get married. People are too young to have a serious relationship. Both Guys and Girls should be, at that age, working towards their careers and travelling and making themselves the best person that they can be. 22 is too young to be tied down in a serious relationship. At that age most don't even know what they want....and then they "settle" for "what's good, right now". Then, they find the "next best thing", but unfortunately, they stick around in their current relationship while they test out that next best thing, because it's safer that way. Both guys and girls...


 @Conan

I understand where you are coming from and I had some similar situations and kind of felt the same way at times. 

In my case, as I was developing into a young man in my upper teens, I really did not even date or pursue a girl unless I thought she was marriage/wife/mother material and would be worthy of bringing home to Mom and integrating into my family and circle of friends. I saw life and relationships as so much that scoring a piece of tail. 

The summer between my Jr and Sr year of high school I began getting involved with 'T', and I did believe she was "the one."

We got hot and heavy and went 'steady' throughout my Sr year of high school. She did go behind my back and started dating a guy for a few weeks after about 6 months and I was devastated and did the standard begging and negotiating and off of that. After a few weeks this other dude pissed her off some how and she came back. I was over the moon and thought that I had "won." He was even a couple years older, better looking, had a job and cool car etc etc so I really thought I was da'man. Long story short though, she basically did what you are talking about. after almost another years she told me she wasn't sure I was 'the one' for her and broke it off, but the way she had been acting for several weeks up to that point, I was (and still am ) sure she was seeing others. 

And like your experiences, after awhile she came sniffing back around. But by that time I had moved on in my heart. 

My second big heartbreak came in my very early 20s. I again thought that I had found "the one" and she was completely in love with me (I am still sure of that today 30 years later) I'll call her "C."

She was a few years younger than me though and when got to drinking age (it was 19 then) and got out of the house, she turned into a party girl. 

I was 22, out of school, working a professional career and starting to look towards the future........ and she was obsessed with drinking and partying and riding the (0<k carousel. 

I begged and pleaded and negotiated and did the "Pick Me! Dance" for a week or two but had no choice but to walk away. 

And like you, something inside me changed. I don't know if was simply getting jaded or if I truly thought I was missing out on the world by being too focused on LTRs and marriage or whatever, but I too became a bit of a Man-***** and I did some things I am not proud of today..... (including hooking up with multiple married women, some of them for years) 

Eventually when I reached 30 I met my now wife and we married the next year and we had our 22nd anniversary last month. And as you have probably seen from some of my other posts, my wife and I were very involved in the swinging lifestyle for a number of years. 

I do understand your disgust and resentment and I do understand where you are coming from. 

But now that I am 53 years old and have had a wide range of experiences and have witnessed many things this world, my current views are somewhat different now.

At the time and for many years after my heartbreaks, I did think of 'T' and of 'C' as "trash" and I did think their behavior was $lu++y and thought people who party and screwed around were loose and dysfunctional and of poor moral character. 

However now 30 years later, both T and C are on my Facebook friends list. They are upstanding members of society. Each have been married about 30 years, have well adjusted, successful adult children and by all measures have lived happy, healthy, productive lives. 

And many of the people I thought were recalcitrant party girls and gutter-$lu+s back in my teens/early 20s are also now educated, respected professionals and happily married with well adjusted and successful children and are productive members of society. 

Yes, I know few broken and disordered denizens that have burnt out and are scrap heaps laying along the side of the road of life too. But those are few compared to those who have gone on to live respectable and productive lives. 

We've all had our hearts broken. We've all broke the hearts of others (you may not have realized it at the time) 

We've all done trashy things. 

I would be nice if we could all rise above that and not do that. But yes, I do feel this is all part of the human experience. Only the very tip of the iceberg will be able to avoid it. 

But here is my punchline - I was all set to marry and live a long, happy life with my first true love T. But now 30 years later and knowing what I know now, I *SHUDDER*at that thought! It would have been a huge huge huge mistake. We would have been miserable. 

We were young and dumb and didn't know anything. My judgement was clouded because she was my first and I was at least getting some steady poon so my judgement was very clouded. 

Yes, it hurt like a muth'a when she dumped me - BUT SHE WAS RIGHT. I wasn't 'the one' for her, there for she was not the one for me. 

I quoted this statement from @TheOriginalAlphaOmega above because this is now how I see the world. 

You aren't "damaged." You took some hits and got dents and dings just like the rest of us and that molded you and shaped you in to who and what you are today. 

In ten years you will view the world differently than today. 

And I also agree that people in their teens/early 20s need to be getting out seeing the world, getting educations, meeting new and different people and developing themselves as human beings. 

In today's world there is no need for people who have just reached fertility to be making legal commitments of marriage and reproduction. Your mores and values and beliefs and life experiences change and develop and unfold rapidly in early adulthood. 

Sure we can go back to people marrying at 20 years old, but then we will simply all be having to pick up the pieces and dealing with the rash of divorces at 30 with a flock of minor children that we will need to deal with as a society. 

Yes, I was hurt badly in my youth by party girls and women wanting to explore the world and I likely hurt others badly by doing the same. 

But that pain is growth and experience and IMHO it is the School of Hard Knocks on how the world really is vs how we want it to be.


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## xMadame (Sep 1, 2016)

If it does not effect your life directly, then why do you care?
You have your values, others have theirs. If they are not compatible then move on.
Stop wasting your positive energy on being negative and find happiness within instead of being bitter because someone chooses to live their life differently. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I want to add something else real quick that I think is applicable. 

Yes, I have had my heart broken when I have been cheated on and dumped a number of times over the years. 

After getting dumped I did miss their company and companionship and I did miss the steady sex life and closeness and such. That part is all obvious self-evident. 

But in retrospect I think the other 70% of my heartbreak came from my own expectations and the loss of what I had built up in my own head. I did miss the people after a break up but most of the pain and anguish came from not having my own expectations met and having the rug pulled out from under my future plans and dreams. 

Another big component of pain of a break up is the feeling that that person was your one big shot at love and now that it fell through, the feeling of never finding love again and dying alone being eaten by your cats is what is crushing. 

In other words, it is our own expectations and our own perspectives that cause us the most pain and angst. 

I grew up in a tiny town out in the middle of Midwest farm country. There was a cultural expectation of marrying your high school sweetheart and working the land together back in that time and place. There was a cultural expectation that your first love was your only true love. 

I now reject both of those notions and that is not how I am raising my teenage children. 

I am sure some people here will disagree with this, but I do not want my kids to make any kind of relationship commitments in their teens/early 20s. I do not want them to be sexually promiscuous or irresponsible or engage in risky behavior; but I do want them to get out and meet and get to know a variety of lands and peoples and I want them to date for the purpose of getting to know different people and develop their social and interpersonal skills. 

and I want them to learn about and get in touch with their own personal values, beliefs and moral compass. 

I don't think most people are mature enough or developed enough as a person to do that in their teens and in a high school or even college freshman environment. 

I understand there are some people that are very mature and self aware and in touch with themselves at a young age. That is great for them. But for the other 95% of us, we need more time and experience before we are ready to make any binding, lifetime commitments. 

IMHO we should not be leading youth into expecting that their high school crush is their one true love and we should not giving them the expectation that should be finding their mate at a young age and we certainly should not be giving them the impression that they will only have one chance at true love and that if it fails they will die alone. 

most of the angst and pain and lasting resentment and bitterness that people experience are not result of evil behavior by the other person, but rather by our own expectations and perspectives. 

I am probably one of the people that @Conan does not like, but I *DO* believe that much of this stuff is a normal and natural part of youth and I do believe that it is important for people to get out and explore and experience the world and learn how the world really works as opposed to how it should ideally be. 

People can learn to do this in a respectful and compassionate manner so as not to leave a path of pain and heartache and resentment and bitterness in their path. 

But expecting teenagers to make lifelong commitments and do everything by the book at every step is IMHO completely unrealistic.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I have always thought it was telling to see the screen names that people choose on infidelity sites. There are some very predictable ones - heartbroken, devastated, lost - but also some ubiquitous ones that are not so obvious. The one that is most telling to me is 'confused.'

Whereas confusion isn't the first thing that the outsider thinks of with heartbreak, it seems to be an overwhelming emotional state with infidelity. This often makes me wonder if confusion isn't just a natural result of who we are as a species.

As humans who have evolved, we have many competing adaptations. One is to monogamy, which gives us the best chance to raise children to adulthood. Another one is to have sex with many partners in order to generally produce offspring.

Our 'love chemicals' help spur on our romance and eventually cheating, if the case may be. The excruciating physical pain of infidelity is the bio reaction to violating our natural need for monogamy. Two adaptations that can compete with one another have very different physical reflexes. Different individuals have different reactions to those reflexes. No matter what, though, we are all part of the same species, so we are more similar to one another than different.

My experience is that people are just congenitally predisposed to respond to these adaptations in certain ways. The serial cheater really doesn't get the monogamy part of things. The faithful partner doesn't get how a serial cheater thinks.

I, for one, have known my whole adult life that I have no interest in suffering through the pain of infidelity as a betrayed. I jettisoned cheating boyfriends quickly. Chumplady is my alter ego. I just have no tolerance for the cheating. It's in my particular DNA, I believe.

I am thus relatively harsh compared to some others who will try to reconcile after being cheated on. It's just who I am.

Conan is who he is and I love his perspective. I'm glad he feels free to express his view and share. For me, his combination of understanding and principle is always welcome on a thread.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> I just wanted to make a quick comment on this statement above.
> 
> I have heard this described as a person being like Scotch tape. When someone has sex with somebody, it is like they "stick" to that person. If they are then peeled away for whatever reason, they still have some adhesion left and are able to stick to something (ie someone) else again; but each time they stick to something and are peeled away, the adhesion becomes less and less until ultimately they are unable to stick to anything effectively at all anymore.
> 
> ...


Hello Oldshirt,

When I seen you quoted me, having read many of your post the past few months, I thought your comment would be slamming me for saying that. lol

Thank you for your input Oldshirt. The scotch tape idea is interesting.

Although I don't agree with the swinging lifestyle, I have enjoyed your post on that topic and other topics and I do realize not everyone has the same set of belief's, values etc. So I can respect someone's input and opinion even if I don't agree with it.

I had a best friend who I grew up with since we were babies. She lead a very promiscuous lifestyle, I was always very conservative. It wasn't the way I chose to live, but I didn't judge her. That was her life, I had mine. 

Anyhow, hope this isn't too much of a threadjack for Conan, but I was wondering recently about men and women. In your experience, does it seem that more women who are promiscuous have trouble settling to one partner later, or is it men and women equally?

Not trying to be sexist here, but it just seems like men can shake off the promiscuity easier when they find someone they want to marry?

It seems like some women have a harder time. Like they just don't marry at all. Just keep bouncing from one relationship to another.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

@oldshirt

Faithless behavior and betrayal are not young traits. They are simply trashy ones.

I'm glad to hear about the women you spoke of growing to be better people.

I believe people can and should change.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Wow, 60 sexual partners. That is a really big number. I would think that would be a deal breaker for most women looking for a husband.

And speaking of husbands, sounds like that was what Molly was looking for back then, and you did not meet that requirement. I know you said her family was pushing her, but she has to agree to sign the marriage license.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> @oldshirt
> 
> Faithless behavior and betrayal are not young traits. They are simply trashy ones.
> 
> ...


I see it as the opposite; I do not see longevity, long term exclusivity and binding commitment as young traits. 

I guess my point above is teenagers should neither expect nor offer long term commitment and exclusivity and we as a society should not pressure them to do so. 

There is a reason there is a legal age of contractual consent and that is because until someone has reached a certain level of development, maturity, wisdom and experience, they simply do not know what it is they are getting into. 

There is a difference between dating and spending time with someone VS "going steady" or entering into a committed, exclusive relationship with them. 

I have reached a point I simply do not believe most people in their teens and early 20s have any business getting into committed, exclusive relationships in the first place. 

If it is kept at casual dating without commitment or promises of a future, there is no cheating or betrayal in the first place.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Let me put it this way for perspective - I did not cheat on T or C that I mentioned above and I did not dump them so I could go chase tail or get some strange. 

.......but that does not mean that I would not have if I had ran into someone the following Tuesday. 

As circumstances had it, they were hot 19 year old females and they simply had more opportunities and options than I did at the time as I was geeky, skinny and wore glasses etc. 

For all I know if our relationship had lasted another week, it may have been me that would have strayed instead. 

My point is it is not in the teenage nomenclature to cleave on to one person at 17 and remain perfectly faithful and ignore all others for a lifetime. It's just not in their DNA and it is unrealistic and naïve to think that they can or even should. 

The Army only asks for a 3 year commitment of legal adults. Why should we think that minors are capable of making lifetime commitments in matters of love and sexuality?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> Anyhow, hope this isn't too much of a threadjack for Conan, but I was wondering recently about men and women. In your experience, does it seem that more women who are promiscuous have trouble settling to one partner later, or is it men and women equally?
> 
> Not trying to be sexist here, but it just seems like men can shake off the promiscuity easier when they find someone they want to marry?
> 
> It seems like some women have a harder time. Like they just don't marry at all. Just keep bouncing from one relationship to another.


That would be a very worthy topic and thread of it's own. Please post that as it's own thread and I am sure it will have some lively and insightful discussion.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Wow, 60 sexual partners. That is a really big number. I would think that would be a deal breaker for most women looking for a husband.
> 
> And speaking of husbands, sounds like that was what Molly was looking for back then, and you did not meet that requirement. I know you said her family was pushing her, but she has to agree to sign the marriage license.


Anecdotally, nearly every woman I was involved with and far more that I wasn't involved with really tried to get me tied down. I guess they didn't care about my number. Personally, I don't have a beef with a woman's past either.

As for Molly. The only thing that the moron she married had over me was a job. I wasn't willing to quit school and work in the lumber mill just because she wasn't thinking straight.

She admitted her bad choice two years later when she tried to get me back. Her marriage dissolved soon after.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MAJDEATH said:


> Wow, 60 sexual partners. That is a really big number. I would think that would be a deal breaker for most women looking for a husband.
> .


I'm probably being a little sexist here, but a man's number of sex partners is rarely a deal breaker for women. 

And to be fair, it's not like people introduce themselves saying, "hello, my name is Bob and I have screwed 60 people before you."

Or at least they shouldn't. 

No one knows how many people I have been with including my wife. Nor do I know how many people she has been with. 

That is private information that no one has right to know. If someone has some kind of religious affiliation that views virginity as a critical factor, then they probably have the right to know one's virginity status of either yes or no. But no one has a right to know the specifics of someone else's personal business before them.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

When a woman asks me how many before her...

My excuse is always : "I don't count, I don't disrespect women by treating them like a number."

So... I get away with it everytime! ^^


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

randomdude said:


> when a woman asks me how many before her...
> 
> My excuse is always : "i don't count, i don't disrespect women by treating them like a number."
> 
> so... I get away with it everytime! ^^


lol 😁!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

RandomDude said:


> When a woman asks me how many before her...
> 
> My excuse is always : "I don't count, I don't disrespect women by treating them like a number."
> 
> So... I get away with it everytime! ^^


That doesn't have anything to do with "getting away with it." 

that is a perfectly legitimate answer. 

No one has a right to that information. 

"I don't keep count and I don't discuss that," is a perfectly appropriate response.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Conan, it's obvious that you started this thread because you felt bad about possibly hurting someone's feelings with your colorful descriptor. I believe many people here know that you don't have a mean bone in your body. Rest easy on that front.

I will say that you seem to display a bit of the Madonna/Whoring complex. And, I'll leave it at that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Conan, it's obvious that you started this thread because you felt bad about possibly hurting someone's feelings with your colorful descriptor. I believe many people here know that you don't have a mean bone in your body. Rest easy on that front.
> 
> I will say that you seem to display a bit of the Madonna/Whoring complex. And, I'll leave it at that.


Thank you. That is why I started this thread.

I'm intrigued about Madonna/*****.

I'm only aware of the term.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Anecdotally, nearly every woman I was involved with and far more that I wasn't involved with really tried to get me tied down. I guess they didn't care about my number. *Personally, I don't have a beef with a woman's past either.*
> 
> As for Molly. The only thing that the moron she married had over me was a job. I wasn't willing to quit school and work in the lumber mill just because she wasn't thinking straight.
> 
> She admitted her bad choice two years later when she tried to get me back. Her marriage dissolved soon after.


So, just out of curiosity, why did you start this thread with a long complaint about women who sleep around, don't cherish themselves, and how this damaged you?

One minute they're too casual, the next minute, they're all trying to tie you down? :scratchhead:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

wild jade said:


> So, just out of curiosity, why did you start this thread with a long complaint about women who sleep around, don't cherish themselves, and how this damaged you?
> 
> One minute they're too casual, the next minute, they're all trying to tie you down? :scratchhead:


I started this thread to explain some of what makes me tick and to apologize for possibly hurting someone's feelings with my crude rhetoric.

While I mean everything I have said about the importance of sex, I don't really give a rip about a woman's past as long as she is a desirable woman in the present.

Mrs. Conan had a past that many men would have run from but when she met me, she was a changed woman.

She was someone who valued her sex as well as mine. She didn't have any inclination towards games of any sort and committed to me 100%.

She could have been a porn star and I would not care as long as it was in her past and nothing she now approved of or desired.

We have both opened up about our histories. My only concern about hers was if she was hurt over any of it.

Now if she had been in anyway fickle or not sure of herself with me or wanted to date others after sampling me for a month or two, she would have been history and I never would have looked back.

If someone's bad behavior is in the rear view, they are ok in my book.

My thread wasn't about past behavior.

I'm about as opposite of a RJ sufferer as you will ever likely encounter.

Mrs. Conan had a lot of partners and her first husband had an anomaly between his legs.

I think sex history can be shared with laughter and, when needed, tears because we don't always feel good about all our experiences. I wish all her experiences were good. I hate it that she was ever hurt or didn't feel good about herself.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

@ConanHub

As far as I'm concerned, you don't have anything to apologize for. Your posts are straightforward and to the point. I for one, appreciate your brutal honesty. The world needs more honesty.

The rest of your post and this thread? Meh, I'm a one woman man and highly territorial, so I'm in the minority. My wife and I are also open books. That's how it should be in my view. A person should be able to make a complete assessment of the situation they are about to step into.

I'll bow out now.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Windwalker said:


> @ConanHub
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, you don't have anything to apologize for. Your posts are straightforward and to the point. I for one, appreciate your brutal honesty. The world needs more honesty.
> 
> ...


Ditto.

I've never seen your posts as overly harsh. Good God, if yours are harsh, there are others on these boards which are most heinously vicious. Really, I don't think you owe any apologies either.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Thanks @Rocky Mountain Yeti and @Windwalker

I was worried about hurting some of the lady posters.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> Thanks @Rocky Mountain Yeti and @Windwalker
> 
> I was worried about hurting some of the lady posters.


Ha!
Another unfounded worry based on a widely accepted but non necessarily valid stereotype. 

The women can be just as vicious as the men!

I'm sure you've read some of She'sStillGotIt's posts :surprise:


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Thanks @Rocky Mountain Yeti and @Windwalker
> 
> I was worried about hurting some of the lady posters.


I can understand that. That's an admirable trait. Although, I don't think your concerns are necessarily true. As Yeti pointed out, both sexes can, have, and will be vicious at times. We all have at times seen posters that are quite vicious in their rhetoric.

I dare say, I have never felt your were ever intentionally being mean. I can't say the same for some of the others I'm thinking of.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

@ConanHub

Welcome to 2017. 

Where you have to write "apology threads" for being honest.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> @ConanHub
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh come the **** on now. I may have missed something but @Conan posted to apologize for the way he comes across when he is triggered by a post but not so much on the gist of his messages, no? 

This thread has helped me develop a new found respect for the man. I doubt there are many members here that haven’t been triggered into anger by the subject and postings of some threads but who of us have actually came forward and created a whole thread to apologize for it? Me included!

Wtf does 2017 have to do with it? WTH was that supposed to mean anyway? Let’s all do go back to 1950 where men aren’t men if they have to apologize for their bad behavior. 

SMH! UGH! Omg...I think you just triggered me! Hahaaa

ETA: “1950... when a hand on the knee was JUST a hand on the knee”

ROFLMAO!!!


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

There's a real simple solution to that there problem.

Don't post in threads that trigger you. Pretty simple when you get right down to it.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Easier said than done. 


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Oh come the **** on now. I may have missed something but @Conan posted to apologize for the way he comes across when he is triggered by a post but not so much on the gist of his messages, no?
> 
> This thread has helped me develop a new found respect for the man. I doubt there are many members here that haven’t been triggered into anger by the subject and postings of some threads but who of us have actually came forward and created a whole thread to apologize for it? Me included!
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what this incoherent misandry in your reply has to do my comment.

My point was he shouldn't have to "feel sorry" for calling out POS cheating behavior.

I realize in 2017 we live in a "shame free" society where every wackjob snowflake wants sympathy.

Regardless of how awful the behavior they deserve a hug and to be understood. Heaven forbid cheaters are taken to task.

We are who we are BECAUSE of our past. If his past "triggered" him into a harsh reply so be it. He is entitled to his emotions. 

Unfortunately, even OP does not agree. So to me the only tragedy here is this apology thread. I welcome different PoVs.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> @ConanHub
> 
> Welcome to 2017.
> 
> Where you have to write "apology threads" for being honest.


LOL! I appreciate the sentiment but I honestly didn't like how I felt about the post.

I didn't feel bad for my message but that I might be hurtful to some women that I enjoy on TAM.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Conan, as a woman who has butted heads with you since long before I became a moderator it's always been my impression that you subconsciously hold women to a higher standard than men where cheating is concerned.

It is true that you call out cheating men, but typically with nowhere near the vitriol you use on women. I've never seen comments as vitriolic as "using her birth canal as a free for all" and "using her crotch....." applied to men. Comparable comments might include something like "this scumbag thinks with his disease ridden ****", yet I have never seen a comment even close to that vitriolic directed at a guy.

I'm not even sure you do this consciously, which is why I feel like while all cheaters are garbage the women are more of a disappointment because you expected more from them.

Could be related to the madonna/***** complex another poster mentioned. This certainly isn't unique to you.....it's a deeply ingrained mentality in many cultures. Cheaters are bad but somehow it's less surprising and often somewhat expected that men do it, so women cheaters invoke more emotion.....much like how men who abandon their kids are seen as dirtbags, and rightly so, but women who do it are the spawn of the devil. It's behavior that's less expected of women so it invokes a more emotional response when it does happen.

Men are recipients of their own double standards this way......an example might be one who won't work. Ok, the woman might be seen as lazy but the man will be tore up because in this arena more is expected of him.

Is it fair? I personally don't think so but that's society as of right now. In this thread we are addressing mainly responses to cheating so I've focused there.

On a side note I enjoy most of your posts and have enjoyed a lot of our head butting, so nothing personal.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Actually, his comment about using her birth canal as a parking garage wasn't directed at a woman; but, rather to a male poster. 

His comment struck me as being flippant. We've all opened mouth and inserted foot (some quite frequently).


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Actually, his comment about using her birth canal as a parking garage wasn't directed at a woman; but, rather to a male poster.
> 
> His comment struck me as being flippant. We've all opened mouth and inserted foot (some quite frequently).


I know. It's vitriol directed at cheating women, and he has a history of this. 

If it was a one off comment I'd let it slide.

As I said, I like Conan so this is just my observation.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> I know. It's vitriol directed at cheating women, and he has a history of this.
> 
> If it was a one off comment I'd let it slide.
> 
> As I said, I like Conan so this is just my observation.




Isn’t it also slightly double-standardy to address one male poster responding emotionally to a specific topic while there are many many female posters who will respond emotionally to different topics, giving males a harder time? (Yes, I know you hinted at it already).
I think we all react different to different things we read. Of course a guy who has been cheated on will be triggered much more reading about a cheating wife than a cheating husband.
I don’t think it has anything to do with ‘it’s because men are expected to cheat’ at all, that’s already a projection. It’s because we are affected more reading about things that happened to us.
And men’s stories are often written differently/have different context (that men who read it identify with) a lot of the time (while both are equally wrong/bad).

Personally, I think the solution is not to try and curtail one’s emotion or be always equally ‘fair’ (whatever it means) when it comes to using ‘punishing’ words, the solution is simply to choose different language/form, whenever possible. 
At the end of the day, it doesn’t really help the OP if their partner is called a **** or a scumbag.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Conan, as a woman who has butted heads with you since long before I became a moderator it's always been my impression that you subconsciously hold women to a higher standard than men where cheating is concerned.
> 
> It is true that you call out cheating men, but typically with nowhere near the vitriol you use on women. I've never seen comments as vitriolic as "using her birth canal as a free for all" and "using her crotch....." applied to men. Comparable comments might include something like "this scumbag thinks with his disease ridden ****", yet I have never seen a comment even close to that vitriolic directed at a guy.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your analysis. It is possible that women pick up on my vitriol towards females more because they are women or maybe miss some of my posts about men.

In honesty about my emotions, I feel more sick and disgusted at female cheaters, wanting to show my disdain with harsh words to shame.

Men who cheat just strike me as worthless parasites that need stepped on. I never feel violent towards women who cheat but almost always with men.

The OM or WH are in my red zone when it comes to beating some sense into them.

Due to the nature of TAM, my responses towards male cheaters have to be tempered or worded correctly so I don't get banned.

My feelings are just as strong, and my anger is stronger, towards men who cheat.

Saying I would like 3 rounds in the ring with a man who betrayed his wife or the OM is one of my ways of trying to illustrate my feelings without violating rules.

I assure you the truth of my emotions towards male cheaters is actually not safe to mention here.

I often refrain from posting on betrayed wives threads because I am so angry at their husbands that I would probably not make much sense or be helpful.

I often advise betrayed women to take the idiot to the cleaners.

I don't know that society has shaped my views. I have felt this way my whole life. Grew up in tough environment so maybe that influenced me.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I appreciate your analysis. It is possible that women pick up on my vitriol towards females more because they are women or maybe miss some of my posts about men.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do cheating men ever post on TAM? Not sure I have ever seen it. 



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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Do cheating men ever post on TAM? Not sure I have ever seen it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The last that I recall was Guth back in May. His thread "Love my wife more now - need to exit girlfriend" was a hoot. As were his previous threads.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Do cheating men ever post on TAM? Not sure I have ever seen it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, more than.. nah not going there.... Yes.


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