# I love you but I'm not in love with you



## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

Need some advice, here is the two part story:



So, my wife and I have known each other since we were kids. Through college we 'hooked up' occasionally and always had great rapport. Prior to planning a marriage, my wife became pregnant. She, out of fear and uncertainty, moved out of our apartment five months before delivering our child. I followed her across country, proposed and she put the marriage off once before finally marrying. Fast forward eight years... on a bike ride with two of our friends, (I was not present) she gave our phone number to a fellow rider. A few days later he called, I was furious. I shared with her my feelings and dismay. A week later, at an organized ride, we ran into this gentleman and it was obvious to both of us his intentions. Fast forward another year, we are having a holiday dinner with a bunch of friends who are more well known to my spouse than me. My wife proceeded to flirt with full body language right in front of me. Again, I shared my feelings with her and she denied the intent and act and proceeded to call me paranoid and jealous.

Fast forward another year, now I am paranoid and begin to check cell records as her social group had changed, her initmacy with had decreased and she was working out and training for running races in a coed group. After a race, I checked our mobile records and tracked a number down to one gentleman whom she had a 25-30 minute conversation with post race. From then on I was suspicious of her training and training partners as often it would be a call full of couples traveling who were not spouses.

After much fighting over my jealousy and our lack of intimacy, we finally arrived a good place the last few months. My wife is truly stunning, so my friends and other men cannot help to look away. I get home from a weekend away and I find she friended one of my buddies on FB and sent him a private email mentioned what a great name he had and asking if my buddy would be available for a high cost vacation as surprise for me. 

Based on my history and suspicion, am I being nuts or right to be continually suspicious?

Post 2:


So here I am. A few other things I forgot to mention. That same guy she flirted with is a buddy and he and his wife invite us to their christmas party. Interestingly, he chose to seat her on his right side and place me in the middle of the table of twenty. My wife, knowing my feelings, did not try to move positions and sat there all night fully aware of my past comments. To top it off, she is friends with this guys wife and goes to his house three times a week for cross fit in their garage.

I also received the I love you, but I'm not in love with you anymore spiel about two years ago. Her two closest friends are admitted adulterers, both of which she runs with frequently and often comes home telling me they didn't run, they walked. Always in the morning. I initiate all intimacy, period unless she is guilted into it. She used to come home and shower immediately, not so much anymore. Now she goes sans panties in her pants often, total change.

Around the time I posted the intiial post, i had her laptop on a business meeting and checked email. TUrns out, one of her running buddies, who creeped her out initially is now funny and sent her and her two running buddies an email with photos of the baywatch girls.

When confronted with all this, she says I am jealous, schizo or bi polar and I have a problem and I am using this as an excuse to end our marriage etc...

My gut says there is something way wrong, but I have no proof. She has changed all her passwords after I had her laptop, as she found out I had it. I started checking phone records again, but nothing is conclusive, although there are no numbers associated with data usage for some records, it just says phone in att records.

Thus far I have not tailed her or done anything creepy and wish to refrain from doing so.

What to do?


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Okay, name. I'm pretty notorious in these parts for being the last person to jump on the "she's cheating" wagon.

But I'm jumping on the "she's cheating" wagon. Or she's about to.

More importantly, it sounds to me like she's just not invested in your marriage, and I'm not sure she ever has been. There's definitely something wrong.

Snooping? Well, why? You already know what you know. Now you just have to decide what to do about it. Do you love her desperately and want her back? Or do you want to move on? Those are both completely legitimate positions, and you're the only one who can decide.

I'm really sorry you are going through this. Keep posting here, you'll find lots of folk who have been in the exact same spot. Best.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

She is stunningly beautiful and catches attention of many men. You are not comfortable with her getting close to male friends.

Until now, you dont have any evidence of her waywardness.

In fact, when you first became suspicious, you should have gone into detective mode to find out and put to rest all your doubts.

Now, keep up the vigil for sometime.

I wish you come back and post and say there is nothing.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

The "I love you but I'm not in love with you" when married is equivalent to, "lets just be friends" when you're dating. Personally if it were me, I pack up my bike and ride off into the sunset.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I love you but not in love with you means- I've found someone else and want to try that out, but I don't want to be a big douche and just leave you...so I'll drag it out a bit so you don't leave me, and I can cake eat while I decide. Ok?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

name.user said:


> That same guy she flirted with is a buddy and he and his wife invite us to their christmas party. Interestingly, he chose to seat her on his right side and place me in the middle of the table of twenty. My wife, knowing my feelings, did not try to move positions and sat there all night fully aware of my past comments. To top it off, she is friends with this guys wife and goes to his house three times a week for cross fit in their garage.What to do?


Which, in effect, stuck it to you AND his wife!


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

I did go in investigative mode. I made the wrong decision and confronted her and of course I was the bad guy and led to many fights. I am now resolved to be super stealthy and simply gather information. Also, I've schedule an appt with a Psychologist to process all of this. 

It's not so easy to pull the trigger with four kids and being the sole provider. The thought of not being home every night for the kids is sobering.


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

I tend to go on high-alert whenever I hear that "love you but not in love with you" tripe. I always take that to mean the partner-in-question is having an affair, and is not invested in the marriage emotionally.

I believe she is either having an affair, or had an affair in the past. She's played it off and let you do all the hard work to keep the marriage intact, but she is not taking her vows seriously.

I'm sure you're dying to know the truth, but I feel that you already have enough information as it is. She is accusing, she is emotionally distant, and she crosses boundaries regularly and _easily_, with no sense of guilt or remorse.

End this, and take control of your life. Divorce, and leave. You deserve better than her.


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Which, in effect, stuck it to you AND his wife!


Exactly. I was floored how comfortable they looked together and floored she would stay in the seat as she knew how I felt.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Name.User,

I think the truth lies somewhere in between. You seem to be feeling insecure. At the same time, she is flirtatious.

As of now, you have no evidence of her cheating.

Stay. Patience. More Patience. If she is a cheater, discovery is not far away.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

name.user said:


> Exactly. I was floored how comfortable they looked together and floored she would stay in the seat as she knew how I felt.


Honestly, I would have said something right then and there. He had no business separating you two at the table. You didn't say... were other couples separated at the table as well? And the fact that your wife was fine with it, KNOWING how you felt... says a lot.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

name.user said:


> Exactly. I was floored how comfortable they looked together and floored she would stay in the seat as she knew how I felt.


If she hasn't been respecting you prior to this, why are you surprised now?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Continuous confrontation about any suspicious or flirty behavior serves no porpouse. At very least your wife has very poor boundaires. I'm sorry but I suspect she's actually cheating, possible doing it for a while (Since before the ILYBINILWY speech). You need to go low key but way deeper into investigation mode. Keyloggers, checking the phone bill with the phone, possibly VARs. You neeed undoubtable evidence before any real confrontation. This cat and mouse game has to end. Think about what your boundaires and dealbreakers are and start respecting yourself.

Start reading this sites:

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


No More Mr. Nice Guy


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Honestly, I would have said something right then and there. He had no business separating you two at the table. You didn't say... were other couples separated at the table as well? And the fact that your wife was fine with it, KNOWING how you felt... says a lot.


Yeah, I hate conflict avoidance. If you are uncomfortable with something just deal with it right then and there. Do not pout about stuff. As they say a coward dies a thousand deaths.

Ooops. More fear here.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

So we could go through point for point on your post but I agree with most of the others. You have all the information you need.

I find your behavior and your boundaries more disturbing than hers though. No she has no real boundaries.

Why would you accept this behavior for so long? It is disrespectful. A marriage based on disrespect is worth what?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

_*I also received the I love you, but I'm not in love with you *anymore spiel about two years ago. *Her two closest friends are admitted adulterers*, both of which she runs with frequently_

These two statements tell you all you need to know.

"I love you but I'm not in love with you" means "I'm in love with someone else" about 100% of the time.

Your wife's best friends are continually selling her on cheating. They have a little cheater's support network going. Your posts contain many details that *your wife is involved in a cheater lifestyle*. She wants to stay married to you for the financial security and familial stability you provide, but she sees no reason why she shouldn't have the excitement and enjoyment of affairs. She has had multiple affairs in the past, and she actively seeks out affair partners whenever she can. She is, in effect, living a secret single lifestyle, going on dates and meeting up for sex. There may have been one or two in the past where she developed an emotional attachment as well, that is when your sex life dropped off and she gave you the "I love you but I'm not in love with you."

You've been married 10 years and she keeps her accounts password protected from you. What could possibly be in there that she doesn't want you to see or know about?

Your wife seems to be amused by your "jealousy" and "paranoia." Do you think she would take a polygraph on whether she has cheated on you in the past if it would help you stop being "jealous" or "paranoid" going forward?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Unless she is not having an affair and is playing mind games with you?

You know something? I think that's just as bad.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

old saying " lay down with dogs, get up with fleas ". now for some truth. you are not doing the kids any favor staying with a cheater. kids know. they feel it. saying you looking for a reason to breakup the family, is her guilt tripping you. so you either accept her cheating, and learn to be a paycheck, or manup and pull the trigger. was other couples separated at the dinner?? if not, you was dissed in front of everyone, and took it like they knew you would. food for thought, ever DNA the first child ??


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Investigate and read the two books mentioned before.

VAR in her car is the most important tool. She may have a burner phone. She may be confiding in friends also.

Check numbers she is calling texting with phone bill.

Keylog her computer for secret emails etc.

VARs usually work in a few days if something is going on.

Best bet, though not 100%, is a PI.

Good luck


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Investigate and read the two books mentioned before.
> 
> VAR in her car is the most important tool. She may have a burner phone. She may be confiding in friends also.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Realize that she may be ahead of the game because of her cheating friends. That is, they may be very knowledgeable about how to hide it, and may be advising her and giving her tips.

PLEASE read the books chap recommended, NMMNG and MMSL. Many forum members swear by them. They will give you a lot of guidance in how to handle yourself moving forward.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

name.user said:


> Prior to planning a marriage, my wife became pregnant. She, out of fear and uncertainty, moved out of our apartment five months before delivering our child. I followed her across country, proposed and she put the marriage off once before finally marrying.


This seems odd.What was her fear and uncertainty? Also seems like you had to talk her into marriage,and if so, why was she averse to it?


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

FYI in regards to the AT & T Data message that says phone. I to thought this was suspect but found out it is a nightly data sync. you will notice it happens about the same time most nights.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

name.user said:


> My gut says there is something way wrong, but I have no proof. She has changed all her passwords after I had her laptop, as she found out I had it. I started checking phone records again, but nothing is conclusive, although there are no numbers associated with data usage for some records, it just says phone in att records.



I have never jumped on the "serve her the papers" "pack her bags this instant"

BUT sadly in this case I will - imo right there "she changed her passwords" is all the proof you need.

This is done and dusted

You're struggling and fighting with it but inside you know you're on the money with this.

Get the laptop (and her mobile) out in front of her and slowly and calmly ask her what the passwords are because you would like to see every single email, text, account she has on there and to be happy for your own sanity that she is not the lying deceiving cheating scumbag you suspect she might be. Look her in the eye and say 'If you force me to make you be honest with me then that's what we'll do - passwords please' 

As I said to my stbxw a while back "If there's nothing to be found you should be happy for me to see anything on there"

In my case after a period of denial she collapsed in about 3 seconds flat and admitted it (some of it)


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_

I hate these kinds of situations. God bless men everywhere. She's cheating on you, man. Give her papers now. You may be tempted to follow this to see where it leads but it will bring nothing but misery, pain and confirmation of what you already know. Teach her a lesson. Surprise her with papers. You can look for more concrete evidence if you want but I think you have reason based solely on her characteristics-- she sits with other men and not you? That is blatant disrespect, and she's throwing her sinful lifestyle in your face. Surprise her with papers. She's a cake-eater, man.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

WhiteMousse said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> I hate these kinds of situations. God bless men everywhere. She's cheating on you, man. Give her papers now. You may be tempted to follow this to see where it leads but it will bring nothing but misery, pain and confirmation of what you already know. Teach her a lesson. Surprise her with papers. You can look for more concrete evidence if you want but I think you have reason based solely on her characteristics-- she sits with other men and not you? That is blatant disrespect, and she's throwing her sinful lifestyle in your face. Surprise her with papers. She's a cake-eater, man.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Name.User, first of all Happy Father's Day! You deserve so much more than the treatment that this vile woman has given you. Declare today your 'Independence Day' and start preparing for a life without her in it.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

RClawson said:


> FYI in regards to the AT & T Data message that says phone. I to thought this was suspect but found out it is a nightly data sync. you will notice it happens about the same time most nights.


LOL I wondered about that myself a time or two. But then, I compared my data with his (same account) and they are roughly the same times day and night. And, considering I have access to email, cell, everything...and he has no chat apps on his phone, I am confident there still is NC. Oh, and yes, he has access to all of my communications as well.


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## Little Bird (Jan 16, 2012)

Tell her she is disrespecting you and your marriage.
Let her know you WILL NOT put up with this.

As Will Kane said, she's hanging around in your marriage for security and stability.
*You have to threaten to remove this security and stability*.

Of course, it might go down in such a fashion that she decides to pack up and leave... But ask her how many of her friendly-fling suitors are _really_ going to be interested in looking after a woman with a child, who they would already know has a habit of straying? Answer is probably none.

Lay it all out on the table for her in one swift blow, and TAKE CONTROL. Tell her what needs to happen (quit this 'cheater lifestyle') and what the consequences will be if she refuses (divorce?)

It sounds a patronising, and I apologise... but she needs to grow up. Continuing to 'seek thrills' thinkg she'll always have you to fall back on is insulting to you and your marriage. Breaks my heart when people have such disregard for their partners 

Sorry if this sounded really forward... but H just taught me some kick-boxing moves and I'm really pumped lol.


I hope all turns out well for you... Take control of the situation!! Make sure she knows that if she wants to stay married to you and keep her family intact, she needs to get her head screwed on straight and behave herself.... especially if this is just a habit of 'naughty behaviour' and she hasn't had a PA yet. In which case you have to kick this now to make sure she never even considers it after.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

name.user said:


> My gut says there is something way wrong, but I have no proof. She has changed all her passwords after I had her laptop, as she found out I had it. I started checking phone records again, but nothing is conclusive, although there are no numbers associated with data usage for some records, it just says phone in att records.
> 
> Thus far I have not tailed her or done anything creepy and wish to refrain from doing so.
> 
> What to do?


Ok, you want to refrain from doing anything 'creepy'.... what do YOU define as 'creepy'? Is is creepy to check her cell phone periodically? Not just the usage online, but the phone ITSELF. Does she have ANY chat apps on her phone? Some of them can be set up so you actually save all conversations, or you can choose to delete them all. Some are like texts and can only be deleted if you choose to delete them. I used to have each type on my phone. The ones which are most common, nearly everyone is familiar with them on the computer and on the phones: facebook, yahoo, msn, aim, and even twitter. ON android phones, I know you get gmail/google chat preloaded. However, there are PLENTY of others that are a bit less common. For instance, igotchat, text+ (text plus). Text+ gives you a "new number" which you give to friends, and they text that number. As long as you initiate the conversation, it is free, if i remember correctly. It only shows up in data usage, not in texting, because you are not using your texting. Igotchat doesn't give you a new number, but it is data usage based. You choose an ID like on yahoo/msn/aim. You don't have the option of deleting select messages, it's "all or nothing".... And if the app is on the phone, but no conversations are still on it, either she never used it, or deleted the conversation(s). Chances are, if she got these programs and there are NOT any conversations at ALL... well, you know she deleted things she didn't want you to see.

Also, you can send pics via these programs, much like texting. Texting, you have to consciously save the pics to the phone. With programs like igotchat, it automatically saves the pic to either camera or to downloads once you open it. Any/all pics sent this way. My former EA partner sent my hubby a pic of his wife once thru igotchat. It was a small pic when it showed up on the screen, so hubby clicked on it. He was disgusted. She had no issue with her hubby sending the pic...that's how she is. Anyway, just by clicking, hubby ended up saving the pic. He had to actually go into his pics and delete it from the phone.

Anyway, look for some of those apps and see if you can possibly set any up to save the chats so you would be able to read them.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Creepy is being someones door mat. How is that working for you?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You're wife is as Will_K pointed out living the life of a cheater.

You say yourself her best friends are themselves cheaters. That says it all. We tend to surround ourselves with those who's values and actions we respect and want to emulate.

When she sat beside the guy - that was her and him having a lovely thrill at throwing their relationship right in your face that night. She knew the affect it was having on you, and so did he. They likely talked at length later about how thrilling and naughty they were and how good it felt to do it right in front of you when there was nothing you could do or prove.

See the problem is she's been coached by her cheater friends on how to play the game.

- She's got a nice hobby that gives her reason to be away for hours, even go over to the OMs house for hours. All she has to do is run a few of the times, and the others give her a couple of free hours to meet up with him.

- I think you'll find she's got a burner phone. Likely in her car or if she's got a workout bag. 

- Those times when she's out with the cheater friends - again perfect cover for her and well them, stepping out for dates and sex.

- You say she doesn't wear underwear anymore. Doesn't that chafe? Doesn't that get her clothes messy? You say she doesn't like intimacy with you, so clearly this is for someone else's benefit.

You have possibly three routes to go:

1. Simply file for D. Get a good lawyer and take action. If you live in a nofault state, then proving her cheating won't do anything to help your case. 

2. Hire a PI. This will be a little expensive, but he'll get the dirt.

3. Do surveillance yourself. While she's clearly been coached by her cheater friends on how to gaslight you to think you're crazy, no one is perfect. It looks like she's been playing these games for years with only few times you've caught her. She's learned from these times and gotten better at the game - hence things like the burner phone. 

- I would put a GPS tracker on her car along with a VAR in it.
- I would take her car for a oil change and search it high and low for the burner phone.
- I would put VARs in your home, including the bedroom and where she might do to talk on the phone. This is if she has time alone at home - I suspect she's smart enough to compartmentalize her contact to the OM when she is out of the house running or training.

- See if you can get a keylogger on her computer. It sounds like you might have to break into it to install one however.

From you tale, I think she's been at it a while with a number of partners. One thing a PI might be able to do, is to observe her with the current guy you suspect and see how she acts when you aren't there.

If you do find she is cheating, don't confront her directly. First go talk to the OMW and bring your evidence.


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## Simon Phoenix (Aug 9, 2010)

Well, what else is there to say? If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck...

In case you haven't figured it out yet, ILYBNILWY is the 1986 Hulk Hogan legdrop to any dating scenario, much less a relationship. This is code for her basically telling you that not only does she no longer sees you as a sensual being, but she has already checked out and having auditions as we speak. Her girlfriends, who know every trick in the book, are likely giving her step-by-step instructions in terms of how to blameshift, gaslight, and everything else in order to keep you around to fund her escapades.

Knock the bricks from under her by dropping the papers on her. Make the idea of her having to find guys who are willing to be with an adulterous divorcee with a kid a very REAL reality; not many upstanding men are going to sign up for that gig unless they're poor, broke, desperate (i.e. have no game and can't get laid by any other means), and so on. 

Shock and awe, my friend. Shock and awe...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Looks like we got another runner. They come hoping we can tell them the same thing their wife tell them. When we tell them the truth, they run. Come back man and let these people help you.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

OldWolf57 said:


> Looks like we got another runner. They come hoping we can tell them the same thing their wife tell them. When we tell them the truth, they run. Come back man and let these people help you.


Or, maybe he said something "wrong".
I wish I had the answers that would clue these guys in
on what they are facing without making them appear to be too
dense to see the forrest, but alas, just about everybody has to get burned before they wake up.
All he had to do is read a few narratives others have provided and he should have already formulated a permanent reaction to his dilemma.


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

No runner. Busy business to grow. Interesting feedback. Wife and I talked, at length. She claims I have delusional jealousy disorder and that I am ruining our family. She asked me to leave, I said no and she said she would and then sat our kids down and told them she was leaving. She didn't leave. I have an mc appt Thursday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

name.user said:


> told them she was leaving. She didn't leave. I have an mc appt Thursday.


:rofl:

Man she's cake eating, don't waste a single penny on mc. You KNOW she's cheating, why bother?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

name.user said:


> No runner. Busy business to grow. Interesting feedback. Wife and I talked, at length. She claims I have delusional jealousy disorder and that I am ruining our family. She asked me to leave, I said no and she said she would and then sat our kids down and told them she was leaving. She didn't leave. I have an mc appt Thursday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course she is going to call you crazy and deny. At this point she's a practiced liar with everything to loose if she was honest.

that's why we told you to get evidence then act.

Now she knows you are suspicious and will be laying low for a while.


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

name.user said:


> No runner. Busy business to grow. Interesting feedback. Wife and I talked, at length. She claims I have delusional jealousy disorder and that I am ruining our family. She asked me to leave, I said no and she said she would and then sat our kids down and told them she was leaving. She didn't leave. I have an mc appt Thursday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Through my delusional jealousy disorder I often look at her and it appears she has something on her mind, like she is just on the brink of telling me something, but I think whatever she has to tell me is so heavy she may be afraid to lose me forever. Dunno. One day at a time. After our fight on Fathers Day I've decided to play along until I can sort out some evidence and thoughts. I'm still on track, just being prudent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

When she's at OMs garage exercising, is his wife there as well? Can you check her discreetly?


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> The "I love you but I'm not in love with you" when married is equivalent to, "lets just be friends" when you're dating. Personally if it were me, I pack up my bike and ride off into the sunset.












I agree...accept only 100% when it comes to love. Anything else is less and will be less.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

name.user said:


> *Through my delusional jealousy disorder* I often look at her and it appears she has something on her mind, like she is just on the brink of telling me something, but I think whatever she has to tell me is so heavy she may be afraid to lose me forever. Dunno. One day at a time. After our fight on Fathers Day I've decided to play along until I can sort out some evidence and thoughts. I'm still on track, just being prudent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wait...to me, this sounds like "she says it, so it must be true"...


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

keko said:


> When she's at OMs garage exercising, is his wife there as well? Can you check her discreetly?


Yes. I have not checked up on her, but have seen the texts to an fro. This is a guy who openly flirts in front of his wife. But, some are truly okay with their spouse flirting, I get that.


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

Name.user - I am going to go against the grain here. You have no proof of anything and keep confronting her. Accuse someone with evidence or do not accuse them. A cheater and a non-cheater will respond the same way, "I am not doing anything." Generally, a non-cheater would likely take care to assuage your suspicions by being comforting, while a cheater will take offense as a means of gas-lighting, but it may be offensive to be accused of doing something you aren't. In either case, you let the non-cheater know your self-esteem is weak (not-sexy) and you let the cheater know that your suspicions are aroused, so to be careful.

Regardless of whether she is cheating, she told you she is not in love with you - 2 years ago. WTF is the difference if she's cheating or not? I am not in love with you does not necessarily mean that she is cheating, it means she does not want sex with you. This would explain the diminishing intimacy, no? This requires immediate remedy (2 years late), including a 180, putting her on a budget regarding spending, and understanding where the relationship is headed. You are the sole provider, so you are funding her lifestyle of fun without you? 

Get a few VARs, plant them and wait. 

But stop with the accusations and bringing it up all the time. Tell her or write her a letter/email if you cannot unemotionally communicate, that you have a beautiful wife who has stated she is not attracted to you. Regardless, you love her and want to keep your family together. You have suspicions, because of these facts. You have no proof and will stop looking for it (hope she does not find VARs), but that you expect she stops saying you are crazy, because you are not. If your children are school age, she should be working (maybe helping you out), not home all day doing nothing (or no one), or producing tangible results for the home (cleaning, cooking, . . .).

Also, when throwing a dinner party, proper etiquette is to separate couples so they mingle and socialize with others. Admittedly, this is rarely done and if you were the only ones separated, that would be weird. Point taken that the host puts a guest he wants to sit near next to himself.


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

TBT said:


> This seems odd.What was her fear and uncertainty? Also seems like you had to talk her into marriage,and if so, why was she averse to it?


The fear was from being first time pregnant, not married and living 2000 miles from family. She would tell me I ruined her life because of the pregnancy, but she explained her hormones were talking.

Curious, are any of the responding posters Therapists? If yes, your thoughts?


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## Tainted Halo (Jun 14, 2012)

that_girl said:


> I love you but not in love with you means- I've found someone else and want to try that out, but I don't want to be a big douche and just leave you...so I'll drag it out a bit so you don't leave me, and I can cake eat while I decide. Ok?


This sounds like my scenario, damn.. cake eaters


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

SprucHub said:


> Name.user - I am going to go against the grain here. You have no proof of anything and keep confronting her. Accuse someone with evidence or do not accuse them. A cheater and a non-cheater will respond the same way, "I am not doing anything." Generally, a non-cheater would likely take care to assuage your suspicions by being comforting, while a cheater will take offense as a means of gas-lighting, but it may be offensive to be accused of doing something you aren't. In either case, you let the non-cheater know your self-esteem is weak (not-sexy) and you let the cheater know that your suspicions are aroused, so to be careful.
> 
> Regardless of whether she is cheating, she told you she is not in love with you - 2 years ago. WTF is the difference if she's cheating or not? I am not in love with you does not necessarily mean that she is cheating, it means she does not want sex with you. This would explain the diminishing intimacy, no? This requires immediate remedy (2 years late), including a 180, putting her on a budget regarding spending, and understanding where the relationship is headed. You are the sole provider, so you are funding her lifestyle of fun without you?
> 
> ...


I agree


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

Not a therapist, don't need to be one. She was unsure that she wanted to marry you. That is normal, given the circumstances, she may not have been "ready" to get married. After establishing a family, she reverts to "me" time - getting back to being an individual, rather than a mom/wife all the time. She also analyzes her situation . . . maybe feels like she doesn't want sex with you (or, maybe anyone) at the moment.

You are not crazy, but very self conscious. Her lack of desire for you makes you think all sorts of things, she doesn't love you, she loves someone else . . . That is naturally what people go through.

There is no such thing as "hormones", alcohol, anger . . . talking. People cannot say things that are not on thier minds. So, there is always a kernel of truth to all statements. Thus, she has some resentment built up regarding how your marriage started. What hormones, alcohol and anger can do is make people say things they otherwise would not because that kernel may be just a tiny part of a greater thing that they would not want to lose.

All you can do is realize the situation, become a more self-confident man, plan for the future (save), act cordially and be a person you'd like to be with. You need to be a person that if you walk, she will regret it, not be glad. Also, trust but verify.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

name.user said:


> The fear was from being first time pregnant, not married and living 2000 miles from family. She would tell me I ruined her life because of the pregnancy, but she explained her hormones were talking.
> 
> Curious, are any of the responding posters Therapists? If yes, your thoughts?


Have you DNA tested your first child? It is very odd for her to run away after getting pregnant.....

I think the user "Thornburn" was a therapist. Try messaging him.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Name User, you may not have evidence that she's cheating but trust your gut. This is not a court of law. The ILYBINILWY speech is more often than not a good proxy for 'I've found someone else that I want to fvck.'

Have you read 'Just Let Them Go?' I'm sure there's a link in the newbie section. I know that you're trying to save your family but why do you want to be married to someone who doesn't love you? She blames you for the pregnancy? Did you rape her? Did you tell her that you were sterile? That you were fixed? She was just as -- no, more responsible for the pregnancy than you were. For her to still be carry a grudge means that she's never really matured. Start preparing yourself for the worst because she's already checked out of the marriage.


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Name User, you may not have evidence that she's cheating but trust your gut. This is not a court of law. The ILYBINILWY speech is more often than not a good proxy for 'I've found someone else that I want to fvck.'
> 
> Have you read 'Just Let Them Go?' I'm sure there's a link in the newbie section. I know that you're trying to save your family but why do you want to be married to someone who doesn't love you? She blames you for the pregnancy? Did you rape her? Did you tell her that you were sterile? That you were fixed? She was just as -- no, more responsible for the pregnancy than you were. For her to still be carry a grudge means that she's never really matured. Start preparing yourself for the worst because she's already checked out of the marriage.


No, purely consensual. Just scared. She doesn't still hold a grudge. The comments were dated.


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## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

name.user said:


> No runner. Busy business to grow. Interesting feedback. Wife and I talked, at length. She claims I have delusional jealousy disorder and that I am ruining our family. She asked me to leave, I said no and she said she would and then sat our kids down and told them she was leaving. She didn't leave. I have an mc appt Thursday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Gaslighting.

Good for you for staying. Don't enable her cheating.

If you are so jealous, why wouldn't she want you to see her laptop contents to put your mind at ease.

I can not believe she would tell the kids something so vile when she wasn't following through on it.

That is emotional abuse against the kids, and enough for Divorce in my book. I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying that I would file if my wife ever did something like that to our children.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

So she already had a name for your suspions. Well, it seems like her tutors have taught her well. Here you are a thriving businessman in this economy, trusting your instints and now she says your instints are wrong in this regard. I am not a T, but seeing to results from these peoples advice on here, I can say, they are 99.9% right of the time. This is your life, we understand you may not want to blow it up. But there are too many red flags for this to just be YOUR DISORDER. Trust but verify. She really have some nerve. hard as you worked for what you have, she wants you to leave. We see this all the time. READ some threads dude. Your situtiation is not unique. Stop the accusations until you have proof. NOW, was everyone separated at the party ?? You never answered that!!! Also, another poster made a very good point. Why are you funding her cheating. YES cheating. My son was fine after my D. As for MC, that happened to many here only to have the affair go underground during READ SOME THREADS !! We are willing to bet you will see many points that connect to your situtiation. It sound like you can afford to hire a PI, well get some VARs for her car and rooms she take calls in. If nothing else, you will put your mind at ease.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

But do you know what always floors me ?? how a person would expect a cheater to tell the truth and upset their easy life style. the kids are in the house, they feel the tension. Their friends may already be talking about their mom. Kids see things we don't dude. Either way, you need to get some outside help, to find out what is going on. those running traveling trips are a great time to put the PI to work. But since you have alerted her, most likely, her friends are providing the place now. And how do you know his wife is there every time they train in the garage. She may run to the store, and it only takes a minute to do the deed, especially with no panties to get in the way. Bottom line,, you are here, and you would not be if it wasn't tearing you up. Now here is a TRUTH thats been proved over and over. If a cheaters lips are moving, they are lying. Good Luck Man.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I commend people for sticking out their marriage and trying to make it work. But ILYBNILWY 2 years ago....with even less intimacy. I would just call it quits. You're torturing yourself.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Name User, read this thread by LostCPA/ false recovery. he too failed to be aggressive. and his wife wass banging Om in the basement while he slept. This was during R after D day. So when these people give you advice, please pay attention. lostCPA came back to apologize for not listening to getting keyloggers and VARs. Don't let this be you.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Unless she is not having an affair and is playing mind games with you?
> 
> You know something? I think that's just as bad.


Technically, that would still be gaslighting. Nevertheless, it makes more sense to call it reverse gaslighting. What a concept.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

keko said:


> When she's at OMs garage exercising, is his wife there as well?


How else can they have a threeway?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

keko said:


> Have you DNA tested your first child? It is very odd for her to run away after getting pregnant.....
> 
> I think the user "Thornburn" was a therapist. Try messaging him.


He should DNA all of them. Just on general principles.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> How else can they have a threeway?


No doubt, he mentioned OMW was ok with OM flirting with other women.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

keko said:


> No doubt, he mentioned OMW was ok with OM flirting with other women.


Oh, God. I hope not.


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## Little Bird (Jan 16, 2012)

I am shocked... No parent in their right mind tells their kids they're leaving just to prove a point - it's pretty obvious that's what she's doing.

She wants to maintain control over you, make you fear losing her, make the kids fear losing her, so you will back off and be her door mat again. That's just sick. You don't do that to your family. You just don't 

She apparently has no issues about leaving your kids (I'd even say she has built up a strange resentment to both you and your children??) Again, whether this was a genuine move or just a 'threat' to get you to back down, BE FIRM.

From what you've written, 'discussions' with your wife are more like you saying how you feel, then your wife telling you you're WRONG to feel like that (incorrect) and then telling you how you should feel and why (also incorrect). Thus, stop 'discussing' with her. TELL HER. 

Tell her you will NOT have her disrespecting you like this ever again.
Tell her you are glad she is seemingly prepared to leave you and your family behind, because if she carries on behaving so disrespectfully to her family, you WILL be divorcing her.

As much as it breaks my heart to see marriages dissolve and families break apart, it really does seem like she was never fully prepared to be a committed wife and mother. If that's the case, then for BOTH of your sakes, perhaps even a trial seperation is the way to go.


A marriage is two people standing side by side. Not one laying on the ground while the other walks all over them with dirty feet.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Let's suppose that she actually now believes that she should not have had children, should not have got married when she did.

OK. Now, what reminds her that she got married? You do.
What reminds her that she had children? Why, the children do.

She might resent you and the children. Which would be why she is acting towards you as she is.

She might be aware that it is not just to dump it all on you and the children, but she might be allowing a sense of entitlement to trump all other feelings. 

She might not be having affairs but is setting you up to throw her out so she can take you to the cleaners.

If she is not having affairs but deliberately trying to break your spirit and mind by pretending that she is, that would be gaslighting in the original meaning of the film Gaslight, in which someone was trying to drive someone mad by using trickery, lies, etc.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Do not under any circumstances leave your home!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

People here are trying to help you. Quite frankly they seem more involved than you.

Have you bothered to get the two books recommended to you. What have you done since you strted this thread that was recommended to you. 

You are nice guying your family into a broken home.


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

chapparal said:


> People here are trying to help you. Quite frankly they seem more involved than you.
> 
> Have you bothered to get the two books recommended to you. What have you done since you strted this thread that was recommended to you.
> 
> ...


Remain calm. This is a process. I have IC on Thursday and I will see how that unfolds. I order the married men's sex life book to start. I guess I've been believing its all my fault and just realizing what a fool I am. It's a bit overwhelming.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Hang in there. During my darkest days, I kept repeating 'IT'S ALL PART OF THE PROCESS' to get me through. I'm sorry that you're here but whatever happens, D or R, things will get better. It might take some time but eventually you'll emerge a stronger person.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Name,
Be honest with yourself, you don't totally want to know. Direct confrontation with someone you believe is cheating is oxymoronic. A cheater is, by definition a liar. Why would you ask someone you believe to be chronically dishonest, if they are lying to you? Why do that, when you have other options available? Voice activated recorders, private eyes, etc. Instead you took the route of:

I know, and am letting you because I want you to stop so we can both pretend this whole thing never happened. 




name.user said:


> No runner. Busy business to grow. Interesting feedback. Wife and I talked, at length. She claims I have delusional jealousy disorder and that I am ruining our family. She asked me to leave, I said no and she said she would and then sat our kids down and told them she was leaving. She didn't leave. I have an mc appt Thursday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Name,
> Be honest with yourself, you don't totally want to know. Direct confrontation with someone you believe is cheating is oxymoronic. A cheater is, by definition a liar. Why would you ask someone you believe to be chronically dishonest, if they are lying to you? Why do that, when you have other options available? Voice activated recorders, private eyes, etc. Instead you took the route of:
> 
> I know, and am letting you because I want you to stop so we can both pretend this whole thing never happened.


At a certain level you are right, I wish it would go away. It's not. I went to my first IC session tonight and opened with I am here because my wife thinks a delusional jealousy disorder. Therapist moved to other topics stemming from the beginning of our relationship and one poster hit the nail on the head. A resentment to having a baby out of wedlock that may have led to feelings of resentment to me taking her free will etc which explains comments such as I ruined her life etc... Very sobering and almost reinforciing all my suspicions etc ... Pretty sad stuff. I'm kind of over the EA **** right now. I mean I want to know, but what for. To soothe my ego's need to be right? Much deeper issues are at play also. ...


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Wow Name.

I think her issues have little to do with you.

She definitely harbors deep resentment towards you, your children and probably the marriage too.

She should not have spoken to the children. I gather they are still young.

The next time she asks you to leave you should pack a bag for her and tell her to leave since she wants out of the marriage so badly.

Maybe you will learn more in MC.

Good Luck and Let us know how you make out.

Hm64


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

name.user said:


> At a certain level you are right, I wish it would go away. It's not. I went to my first IC session tonight and opened with I am here because my wife thinks a delusional jealousy disorder. Therapist moved to other topics stemming from the beginning of our relationship and one poster hit the nail on the head. A resentment to having a baby out of wedlock that may have led to feelings of resentment to me taking her free will etc which explains comments such as I ruined her life etc... Very sobering and almost reinforciing all my suspicions etc ... Pretty sad stuff. I'm kind of over the EA **** right now. I mean I want to know, but what for. To soothe my ego's need to be right? Much deeper issues are at play also. ...


Damn. I was hoping I was not right but, I has a horrible feeling I was right.

Does your wife understand the basis for her resentment? Can she get through this to be committed 100 percent to the marriage?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

People tends to put onto others every unpleasant thought and feeling. She's not happy with herself now, she put it on the closer targets, now she thinks life didn't follow the script she once had in her head, reality forced her to make choices, with the new filters of unhappyness she only can see them as dire sacrifices, her actual unhappyness color all, but once she made that decisions expecting the best with the tools she had, as everyone does, and surely managed to be happy with them even if the rewritten version of the story changed her own perceptions.


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## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Name,
> Be honest with yourself, you don't totally want to know. Direct confrontation with someone you believe is cheating is oxymoronic. A cheater is, by definition a liar. Why would you ask someone you believe to be chronically dishonest, if they are lying to you? Why do that, when you have other options available? Voice activated recorders, private eyes, etc.


This is the reason that experienced investigators talk to everyone else they can with any information about an incident and gather as much evidence as they can before they start interviewing a suspect.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

I have a feeling that you haven't investigated ...i.e. checking texts, keyloggers and VAR, because, I think, you're afraid of what you might find. You've been taking her excuses and believing that you are to blame...i.e. Jealousy disorder. You are so afraid of what you might find, that it's easier for you to believe that it's YOU with the problem.

But, in the meantime, you're giving yourself an ulcer wondering what's going on in your marriage. Seeing an IC and seeing if the problem is actually you.

The truth will set yor free, dude! You need to find out for yourself. No one is going to be forthcoming with what's going on. It's up to you to find out.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Yea she definitely needs to ditch the TF. My town is fairly big but it is full of upper to upper middle class. There is a personal trainer who is apparently making women over. Then starts trying to hook them up with her male clients. I mean like completely purposefully home wrecking. The woman is bisexual as well. It is really messed up. 
Get rid of the TF. I would also at this point back off and go into fact finding mode. 
Key logger,VAr, and other means of spying and hacking may seem extreme to you now. So did a lot of men on here. However most that didn't will tell you they wish they had. 
Your wife is pulling away from you and is disrespecting you. At this point for your sake even though have not had a dday yet. I would do the NMMNG, and the 180. 
You need to get your head right and focus on finding out the truth.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Read more threads. After you have read enough you will think you have been looking in a mirror. You will then know what to do. Doing it depends on how strong you are.


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Read more threads. After you have read enough you will think you have been looking in a mirror. You will then know what to do. Doing it depends on how strong you are.


I have been monitoring records, thats how I found out about a 30 min post race conversation a few years ago. I might not have mentioned that one. I have a few numbers now that I will look up shortly.

Right now she is having difficulty that I went to a MC and we talked about her. Twice earlier in our marriage we went to MC and my wife decided she did not like them because they were focusing on her. So we stopped going. Now she feels attacked again because I shared with her I do not have the disorder she thought I should have for being delusionally jealous. The pressure is definitely on and I can see at times she looks like she wants to tell me something. She now feels that I am looking for a way out of the marriage etc...

Total time waster


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

Around the time I posted the intiial post, i had her laptop on a business meeting and checked email. TUrns out, one of her running buddies, who creeped her out initially is now funny and sent her and her two running buddies an email with photos of the baywatch girls.

Recently, she this guy, who creeped her out is now a stalker. What does that mean? I asked my son if he sees this guy often and he said yes, down by a local market. I then asked if they hang out and he looked at me like I was weird. So, from my boy's feedback, it appears they see him in his vehicle often, but at least in front of my son, my wife and he are not hanging out or talking.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Did you install a keylogger to her computer?

Place a VAR in her car?


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Name.

You seem to be incredibly passive in this! If you knew, really knew she was cheating; would it change things? Would you file, make real demands? Be willing to walk? If any of these are true then get more active with your investigation. the truth shall set you free! 

I didn't use the voice activated recorders in the car and around the home, because I got my evidence through texts and email. If you can, put a key-logger on her PC. What kind of phone does she have? If it is an iPhone you can extract her text messages. (including deleted ones)

I just don't understand your passive nature. For me, none of this would matter. The "I am not in love with you" speech is enough to pull the trigger. You are miserable with no fault that I can see and you are willing to stay miserable. It also is damaging your children.

Good luck


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

KanDo said:


> Name.
> 
> You seem to be incredibly passive in this! If you knew, really knew she was cheating; would it change things? Would you file, make real demands? Be willing to walk? If any of these are true then get more active with your investigation. the truth shall set you free!
> 
> ...


I wouldn't agree to passive, maybe stupid or bowled over, but not passive. My plan is to move through counseling, go quiet on accusations, lull her into complacency and consider the tools. Man I want to, but, at this point it's real confusing to me if I am the one who is delusional or not. Plus, I value trust. What if I'm wrong. But, the good news is that I am growing a serious sense of ambivalence to the whole deal. Its exhausting. We share accounts, my wife pays the bills so she will notice money moving and inquire. I'm hoping the increased pressure will be too much and she will break down and open up.


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## Vanton68 (Feb 5, 2012)

name.user said:


> I'm hoping the increased pressure will be too much and she will break down and open up.


Don't hold your breath. I had mine in a pressure cooker for 2 years and when the pressure would become to much for her, she would trickle a small half-truth out. So even when she opens up (most likely a trickle-truth), you will have more questions than answers.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

name.user said:


> We share accounts, my wife pays the bills so she will notice money moving and inquire.


Money for a $30 var? Money for a $15 keylogger?


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## Posse (Jan 30, 2012)

name.user said:


> I wouldn't agree to passive, maybe stupid or bowled over, but not passive.
> 
> *All of the above*
> 
> ...


Your wife is a mere mortal like everyone else on the planet. You need to get her off the pedestal you have her on, and see things as they really are.

I, like the others here, think you are looking for any excuse you can to justify keeping your head in the sand.

Not exactly a good example to model for your child, pardner.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Why is your wife still paying the bills? You're concerned about her noticing $60 for VAR and keylogger? You need to be worrying about her cleaning out the marital funds before bolting with the OM.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

name.user said:


> I wouldn't agree to passive, maybe stupid or bowled over, but not passive. My plan is to move through counseling, go quiet on accusations, lull her into complacency and consider the tools. Man I want to, but, at this point it's real confusing to me if I am the one who is delusional or not. Plus, I value trust. What if I'm wrong. But, the good news is that I am growing a serious sense of ambivalence to the whole deal. Its exhausting. We share accounts, my wife pays the bills so she will notice money moving and inquire. I'm hoping the increased pressure will be too much and she will break down and open up.


Well, ambivallent about what? She told you she doesn't love you. Thats all you need to find out why she said that. 
When you get that statement "Married Man Sex Life " and the MAP plan provided in the book has to be followed. The MAP will show you how to bring the her back into the marriage if its still possible. Its worked before and it the best bet you have.

Blameshifting, she says you are looking for a way out of the marriage. If she doesn't love you, and tells you, why would she think you would want to stay in a loveless marriage?

Why would she accuse you of having mental problems? She's basically telling you your paranoid because she doesn't love you and you believe her.

Evidently she is just afraid you will no longer support her wayward life style. Read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and stand up for your family.

By the way, a VAR costs less than $50 dollars at walmart. A really good one , an Olympus, $99 at bestbuy. If you are afraid to spend $100 dollars you really need to download MMSL and NMMNG.


Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.


No More Mr. Nice Guy


MMSL is not a sex manual, its a relationship guide BTW


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

There is no excuse for a woman cheating on her husband....That said, women are sexually attracted to dominant, decisive men who are perceptive and situationally aware. They're repelled by men who are easily gulled, even when it's the woman herself who is pulling the wool over the man's eyes. There is none so blind as those who WILL not see. Hiding under the covers never did anyone any good.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> There is no excuse for a woman cheating on her husband....That said, women are sexually attracted to dominant, decisive men who are perceptive and situationally aware. They're repelled by men who are easily gulled, even when it's the woman herself who is pulling the wool over the man's eyes. *There is none so blind as those who WILL not see*. Hiding under the covers never did anyone any good.


:iagree:

Mac, I was just thinking the same thing. Must be something in the Texas air.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I can only go by what you are writing here. And from what you write, your wife has made you her b!tch. And that is why she doesn't respect=love you. That is why you have to get the books, that is why you have to regain your self respect and earn your wifes respect back.

Gaslighting is the term for your wife trying to convince you its all in your head. This isn't new, its old hat for cheaters, and its working on you.

Your wife has all the red flags of having an affair, its irresponsible of you, to your family, to not get this taken care of, one way or another.


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

chapparal said:


> People here are trying to help you. Quite frankly they seem more involved than you.
> 
> Have you bothered to get the two books recommended to you. What have you done since you strted this thread that was recommended to you.
> 
> You are nice guying your family into a broken home.




Yep. Read the books and reading more. Also, went to IC, then wife volunarily called IC and we are going independently at this point.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

name.user said:


> Yep. Read the books and reading more. Also, went to IC, then wife volunarily called IC and we are going independently at this point.


Have the books helped shed any light on your situation? 

How has your counseling been going?

How did you get her into counseling?


Good luck


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Have the books helped shed any light on your situation?
> 
> How has your counseling been going?
> 
> ...


The books have been very helpful. She chose to go on her own after seeing me go. Counseling has been helpful in that I see areas to improve communication as does she. IRonically, my wife told our MC in IC today that she has two friends who have cheated on their husbands and their husbands have been doting on them since and she envies the doting they are receiving. I guess I'm shellschocked from the irony in that comment. She said she has not been receiving the emotioanl support she needs for six or seven years. Unfortunately, I am now taking that information as further evidence to support my gut, yet unproven suspicion, of her cheating. So we are not real good at this moment as I projected my lack of faith in her on her and she felt attacked. Crazy.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Have you gathered any solid evidence of an affair?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

keko said:


> Have you gathered any solid evidence of an affair?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


none.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

name.user said:


> The books have been very helpful. She chose to go on her own after seeing me go. Counseling has been helpful in that I see areas to improve communication as does she. IRonically, my wife told our MC in IC today that she has two friends who have cheated on their husbands and their husbands have been doting on them since and she envies the doting they are receiving. I guess I'm shellschocked from the irony in that comment. She said she has not been receiving the emotioanl support she needs for six or seven years. Unfortunately, I am now taking that information as further evidence to support my gut, yet unproven suspicion, of her cheating. So we are not real good at this moment as I projected my lack of faith in her on her and she felt attacked. Crazy.


I'm assuming the doting husbands know they have been cheated on. I have never seen that work here to save a marriage but have seen it work to encourage the wayward spouse to do it again.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

name.user said:


> none.


VAR?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

name.user said:


> none.


Do you have any interest in either confirming or ruling out an affair or just blindly spending $$ on MC and wasting time?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

keko said:


> Do you have any interest in either confirming or ruling out an affair or just blindly spending $$ on MC and wasting time?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Guess I'm a dumbass for not. I've been monitoring best I can etc... and have not seen anything out of the ordinary.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

name.user said:


> The books have been very helpful. She chose to go on her own after seeing me go. Counseling has been helpful in that I see areas to improve communication as does she. IRonically, my wife told our MC in IC today that she has two friends who have cheated on their husbands and their husbands have been doting on them since and she envies the doting they are receiving. I guess I'm shellschocked from the irony in that comment. She said she has not been receiving the emotioanl support she needs for six or seven years. Unfortunately, I am now taking that information as further evidence to support my gut, yet unproven suspicion, of her cheating. So we are not real good at this moment as I projected my lack of faith in her on her and she felt attacked. Crazy.



tell your wife that couple of your friends smacked and physically abused their wives around and now they are more submissive and doting these days.

But more seriously, tell her not to have any such allusions.And that infidelity is a deal breaker for you


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

chapparal said:


> I'm assuming the doting husbands know they have been cheated on. I have never seen that work here to save a marriage but have seen it work to encourage the wayward spouse to do it again.


Yes, each know.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

name.user said:


> Guess I'm a dumbass for not. I've been monitoring best I can etc... and have not seen anything out of the ordinary.


They were regularly working out together correct? Have you tried discreetly watching them?

How about semen test kit, when she decides to wear panties to his house?


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

keko said:


> They were regularly working out together correct? Have you tried discreetly watching them?
> 
> How about semen test kit, when she decides to wear panties to his house?


Where do you find a test? Are they accurate?

Tough to based on their street and how the gym is set up.

funny, this guy's wife received a call from a female neighbor who told his wife she slept with him last week. My wife, his wife and another friend chalked it up as the girl is nuts. My wife and I then got into a fight because I said he probably was. She seemed to defend him saying he would never do that to his wife.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Check Mate Semen Detection Kit | eBay Here's how it's done, Semen Detection Test - YouTube

I'm guessing she takes shower there?

Are there any other ways to physically check up on them?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

name.user said:


> Where do you find a test? Are they accurate?
> 
> Tough to based on their street and how the gym is set up.
> 
> funny, this guy's wife received a call from a female neighbor who told his wife she slept with him last week. My wife, his wife and another friend chalked it up as the girl is nuts. My wife and I then got into a fight because I said he probably was. She seemed to defend him saying he would never do that to his wife.


Tell your wife IF she believes that she doesn't know anything about the kind of man that goes around flirting with other women especially other mens wives. Tell your wife you have no doubt he banged the OW. Is the OW married too? Then ask her if he has ever said anything inapropriate to her and watch her body language. Does she look down, away, look shifty?

In any event you need to tell your wife your marriage is on a very slippery slope. And one of the reasons is the kind of people she hangs out with.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Talk to that allegued OW - neibourgh. Get evidence if you can. Particulars about OM.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Acabado said:


> Talk to that allegued OW - neibourgh. Get evidence if you can. Particulars about OM.


Just come out and ask OW if she knows anyone else he has been hitting on.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

What I don't understand is when your partner gives you the ILYBINILWY speech then why bother figuring out if she's cheating or not.
Why does it matter at this point?

She already made it clear for you. She doesn't love you. Just divorce her and move on.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> What I don't understand is when your partner gives you the ILYBINILWY speech then why bother figuring out if she's cheating or not.
> Why does it matter at this point?
> 
> She already made it clear for you. She doesn't love you. Just divorce her and move on.


Although I agree on your principle in some states it makes a difference in alimony/settlement or even speeds up the divorce. It can also be used as a bargaining tool to keep the affair unknown to the family, if it's a conservative one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> What I don't understand is when your partner gives you the ILYBINILWY speech then why bother figuring out if she's cheating or not.
> Why does it matter at this point?
> 
> She already made it clear for you. She doesn't love you. Just divorce her and move on.


Children, intertwined finances and a desire to be together. Why? I do not know.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Still no VAR?

Put it all on the table: Open Marriage.


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## name.user (Jun 16, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Still no VAR?
> 
> Put it all on the table: Open Marriage.


what do you mean?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

name.user said:


> what do you mean?


I think he means you are not doing the job you should be doing as the leader and protector of your marriage and family. If you suspect cheating you should be doing everything humanly possible to prove it or disprove it. Its the job you took when you got married and had a family.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

he means you like the other husbands know ther wives are sleeping around but gutless when it comes to being men and doing what needs to be done. So they by their very complicity gives them the ok to treat them like cucks, as long as they will let them take care of them. thats what I mean, even if warlock didn't. I won't trust you to handle any of my biz bro., if a woman has you doubting what your guts is say. 
Now you find out that he has been exposed, and she defends him. Well invite this woman to the house and get the details in front of your wife. 

And save the for my kids crap. its all you my man. I rather my kids see me as a man who won't put up with a cheating wife.
You have an answer fornot using every tool but the books, bc you can explain them. You as a husband is not even ALLOWED to spend money without explaining it. Does she explain how she spends it.

WHY ARE YOU HERE if you not taking the advice ?? 

WAS all couples separated at that dinner, or just you and her. Why didn't you just get up and walk out. Are you so afriad of making a scene that you will be dissed in front of everyone???


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

And oh, she got her message across, by having the IC tell you she was slept with him. She started back to keep up with what you was saying and to tell her side. WHY are you sharing MC an IC ?? BC she wants it that way, to keep an eye on your sessions.:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

OldWolf,

You took the gloves off for that explanation. But you speak the truth.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Hap, he has been here long enough to know what he has to do. I hate how guys that can run big as* biz's but can't run there own lives, and let those screwed up women use them.There WAS a time when it was the women, who was the most emotional, it seems as if that has changed.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

It seems to have changed OldWolf.

Hell, ARod got hit in the wrist by a fast ball and was on his back whining like a little girl.

Babe Ruth and Joe DiMaggio would have picked up the ball with their other hand and threw it at the pitchers head.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

NU, you said a desire to be together. but you was given the SPEECH. So her only desire to be there with you is bC of the kids an finances.
Can you actually live that way??? Not saying she won't reconnect over time, but then she may never do.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

name.user said:


> what do you mean?


The guys above all have a good take on it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

People hopelessly in love forget what hopelessly means.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Has the OP read NMMNG and MMSL? From his posts I guess not.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

He came here not to hear your advice but for assurance from out side people that she is not sleeping with him and everything is fine in his marriage, 

Why you are advising him, he dont want that bc he is not going to take anything seriously.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Has the OP read NMMNG and MMSL? From his posts I guess not.


If he read those books and followed through, he'd have to confront the facts. "]OP doesn't want to know the facts.


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