# What about the children?



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I grew up in a family that was saturated in parental love. As children, we were very secure, but the love I’m talking about was the palpable, romantic love between my parents. Until the day my mother died, it was obvious to anyone in sight that my parents were a true love match. When my mother died suddenly in her late 40’s a month after their 25th wedding anniversary, my father fell to pieces. It’s fair to say that he never recovered. He remarried twice and in between always had a willing bed partner, but he couldn’t talk about my mother without tearing up and said until the day he died that he would never, could never love anyone else.

So, it was a shock to me to hear from him when he was close to drunk one night that he had cheated with ‘flings’ in the early years of their marriage. I was 23 at the time & I’m not sure why he confessed this to me. I don’t think my mother ever suspected & am glad if she died without ever knowing. But his revelation changed the way I viewed him forever. From that moment on, he was a different person to me. I lost respect for him and saw him as sad and flawed.

My question here is for all the betrayeds and waywards who have children.

How do you tell them? What do you tell them? How are they changed?

Mostly what I read here is the horrendous immediate fallout from affairs. The issue of children is usually talked about as issues of custody.

What about the long-term effects?


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Our daughters were 17 and 20 when this came out. BH told them what had happened. It was really hard on them since they felt love and loyalty to me as a mother but clearly recognized I had done something horrible.

I can honestly say my relationship with them got a lot more strained after this.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I grew up in a family that was saturated in parental love. As children, we were very secure, but the love I’m talking about was the palpable, romantic love between my parents. Until the day my mother died, it was obvious to anyone in sight that my parents were a true love match. When my mother died suddenly in her late 40’s a month after their 25th wedding anniversary, my father fell to pieces. It’s fair to say that he never recovered. He remarried twice and in between always had a willing bed partner, but he couldn’t talk about my mother without tearing up and said until the day he died that he would never, could never love anyone else.
> 
> So, it was a shock to me to hear from him when he was close to drunk one night that he had cheated with ‘flings’ in the early years of their marriage. I was 23 at the time & I’m not sure why he confessed this to me. I don’t think my mother ever suspected & am glad if she died without ever knowing. But his revelation changed the way I viewed him forever. From that moment on, he was a different person to me. I lost respect for him and saw him as sad and flawed.
> 
> ...


I think one of the main reasons a BS doesn't kick their Betraying partner out is because of the children. if I didn't have my kids I would have sent him packing, if the youngest he been just a few years older my H would probably be STBXH.

The youngest two don't know what their loving father is really like and for now I will keep his shame.....


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

gemjo said:


> I think one of the main reasons a BS doesn't kick their Betraying partner out is because of the children. if I didn't have my kids I would have sent him packing, if the youngest he been just a few years older my H would probably be STBXH.
> 
> The youngest two don't know what their loving father is really like and for now I will keep his shame.....


What I struggle with is whether it's better or worse for them to know.

I think it must depend in some way on mothers/daughters, fathers/sons. My brother wasn't at all surprised, although the rest of us were stunned (four daughters). My brother just said, "Yeah, what'd you expect? Dad's a dog."


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

I dont believe that one mistake, should define a person. People make mistakes and apparently your father was aware that he had made a few. In your eyes and up to the moment he confessed that to you, he had always been a good husband and a present father. Why change that, specially if it wasn't important then?


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

How old are your kids?


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

There is a lot of conflicting advice out there with regards to what to tell children, especially young kids (i.e. non- adults). It's something I've struggled with myself as a betrayed spouse and father.

I have not sat my kids down and told them the dirty details surrounding our separation. Neither has my STBXW. On the other hand, if asked, I will tell them whatever they want to hear.

My kids love my wife and even though she hurt them directly and indirectly, I have pretty much decided that I will answer their questions but will not give them a sit down, play by play of all of my wife's betrayals. Maybe when they're older. You can't untell them, so I am erring on the side of caution. 

OTOH, my wife 2 1/2 years ago blurted out to them that "she cheated" (we were in the midst of an argument and she started to cry and act when she saw the kids). Little did I know that she was not referring to what I thought was an EA - but "admitting" to the PA which had already finished. I learned about the PA just two months ago.

It went over the head of my youngest daughter (who was 9) but my oldest daughter has not forgotten. In fact, she wrote a letter to a friend of hers last summer which talked about how her Mom had cheated for years and had "almost destroyed our family" - this was before we separated and were in the midst of a false R. She never sent the letter, but our nanny found it recently and showed it to me. 

So my eldest daughter has definitely changed her view of her Mom. But in the background, my wife had always favoured our youngest. My wife had post-partum after our first and it lasted about 2 years - she never really bonded in the first few years with my eldest daughter. Whereas my youngest has always been her "cuddle-baby" - really doted upon. I am very close with both daughters but really concentrated on giving my eldest daughter special attention when she was younger because I recognized that my wife was not really that warm to her. She's turned out to be a great kid. So while she loves her Mother, I think she has a pretty wise view of her. Just hope it hasn't damaged her view of relationships too much. 

On my side, my parents just celebrated their 60th - and they are a role model for my kids. Both my parents are strong and opinionated - but a truly special love bond - where they are true loving companions. Still hold hands and steal kisses and are always hugging and cuddling each other as well as any grandkid who is nearby - my kids get a real kick out of them.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Our daughters were 17 and 20 when this came out. BH told them what had happened. It was really hard on them since they felt love and loyalty to me as a mother but clearly recognized I had done something horrible.
> 
> I can honestly say my relationship with them got a lot more strained after this.


What I'm realizing now is that my reaction was unfair. I truly believe I would have been much more sympathetic to my mother than my father. The mother-daughter bond was very strong and empathetic.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Memento said:


> I dont believe that one mistake, should define a person. People make mistakes and apparently your father was aware that he had made a few. In your eyes and up to the moment he confessed that to you, he had always been a good husband and a present father. Why change that, specially if it wasn't important then?


I agree with you. I was very young and my reaction was visceral. I really wish, even in retrospect, that he had kept his secret.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Hope Springs Eternal said:


> How old are your kids?


My own children are 25 and 26.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I agree with you. I was very young and my reaction was visceral. I really wish, even in retrospect, that he had kept his secret.


Most likely he felt very guilty about it. I probably would have had the same reaction, if I was you.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Our kids are 23, 19 and 9. The two adult kids were told by WH what had gone on in general terms. Our son said "youre done talking" and our daughter cried and told him she was disappointed in him bc she had always modeled her bf's after him and now that would be tainted. It was a difficult and painful day. 

In the mos since then they have been very supportive to me and have told him that basically he's on thin ice when it comes to their respect for him. So yes, it has long term effects....


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## MrMathias (Nov 19, 2012)

I had my first son when I was 18, during my first semester of college. I married his mother about a year and a half later. Many people warned me not to but I thought it was the right thing to do. We never had a good relationship, even after a week into dating I knew she was bad news, but she guilted me into staying with her and I thought having a nice guy (me ) in her life would be good for her. 

We were clearly too young, and didn't communicate well at all. So it was shocking but not surprising when she asked for a separation. 

What was really shocking and surprising to me was when I caught her in bed with another guy the next morning, when I came back home unexpectedly to work things out if I could. 

My son, now 19 has never really asked me about why his mother and I broke up. I don't think I'd mention her being unfaithful- just that we didn't get along. Although the A she was clearly involved in devastated me, I 'got over it' pretty fast. Her A was an unfortunate sideshow for two people that shouldn't have gotten together at all. I didn't entertain R with her for more than a day, I knew it was a lost cause- although a few years later I was drawn in again and we considered R during some trying times. I don't think my son knowing that I caught his mother in bed with another man would be useful at all.

My ExW and I have had many ups and downs over the years, we got along great some times. When she was withholding time with my son, changing our parenting plan, and using him as a weapon, and moving to a new state, I considered her as my worst enemy. Even then I didn't say a word about how I felt about her to my kid. 

I know that many times over the years, he wondered what it would be like if his parents were together. He thinks we would be pretty good friends at least. He doesn't know her like I do though. Our breakup was because of immaturity, not because of an A. His birthday present this year was for the three of us to go to a movie and eat at his favorite restaurant. It was actually a fun night. He's awesome btw, full ride to a private U and finishing up his first semester. 

To segue into my current situation- my son's 19th birthday_ might_ even have been the night that my current WW spent with her OM watching a movie on my couch. Not sure how, if, when, I'm going to tell my two year old. My WWs A is without question THE factor in our relationship ending.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

DrMathias said:


> I don't think my son knowing that I caught his mother in bed with another man would be useful at all.


Yes, it seems better to me, too, if children are very young when the infidelity occurs & the parents have long gone their separate ways, to not burden the adult child with the truth about the affair.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Im finding it hard to believe that the ones that say they havent told their kids or they hide it from their kids even have this option. You must be true saints to shield them from everything. Did you talk only in private, did you never get upset and say something out loud that one of the kids might have heard?

Its just hard to wrap my brain around the idea that a family can hide this sort of thing when it has such an affect on our thoughts, moods, emotions, etc.

Then again maybe I am just a terrible mother. I didnt sit my kids down and tell them what their dad was doing but they heard things and they are not dumb. They sense when Im upset, etc. I wouldnt say "oh Im sad cause your dad is screwing someone else" but still your kids sense the distance between mother and father.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Yes, it seems better to me, too, if children are very young when the infidelity occurs & the parents have long gone their separate ways, to not burden the adult child with the truth about the affair.


If it happens when they are really young and they dont know whats going on I think they will be able to go through life untouched by it. My kids were 11,8, and 2.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Our kids are 23, 19 and 9. The two adult kids were told by WH what had gone on in general terms. Our son said "youre done talking" and our daughter cried and told him she was disappointed in him bc she had always modeled her bf's after him and now that would be tainted. It was a difficult and painful day.
> 
> In the mos since then they have been very supportive to me and have told him that basically he's on thin ice when it comes to their respect for him. So yes, it has long term effects....


CTU - how does your H feel about his children's reactions/feelings? Is he addressing it actively? Or just hoping that time will heal?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> Im finding it hard to believe that the ones that say they havent told their kids or they hide it from their kids even have this option. You must be true saints to shield them from everything. Did you talk only in private, did you never get upset and say something out loud that one of the kids might have heard?
> 
> Its just hard to wrap my brain around the idea that a family can hide this sort of thing when it has such an affect on our thoughts, moods, emotions, etc.
> 
> Then again maybe I am just a terrible mother. I didnt sit my kids down and tell them what their dad was doing but they heard things and they are not dumb. They sense when Im upset, etc. I wouldnt say "oh Im sad cause your dad is screwing someone else" but still your kids sense the distance between mother and father.


Wasn't your H coming and going from the marriage? I think it would have been impossible in those circumstances to keep it away from the children. Plus, your kids were older.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Our kids are 23, 19 and 9. The two adult kids were told by WH what had gone on in general terms. Our son said "youre done talking" and our daughter cried and told him she was disappointed in him bc she had always modeled her bf's after him and now that would be tainted. It was a difficult and painful day.
> 
> In the mos since then they have been very supportive to me and have told him that basically he's on thin ice when it comes to their respect for him. So yes, it has long term effects....


I believe my 16 and 13 yo have lost most respect for their father. Especially the oldest, he is a boy. Anytime I am upset he quietly asks me "mom whats wrong". I can say Im fine or its nothing but he knows. He will walk right past my H and I in the mornings to go to school and say "bye mom, I love you" and not even acknowledge his father. My husband hasnt earned his respect back, IMO.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Wasn't your H coming and going from the marriage? I think it would have been impossible in those circumstances to keep it away from the children. Plus, your kids were older.


Yes, back and forth from Jan 07- Jan 10


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> CTU - how does your H feel about his children's reactions/feelings? Is he addressing it actively? Or just hoping that time will heal?


NOPE. He actively has and does speak to them. He has told them how sorry he is and that he hopes to regain their respect. He has told them that nothing like this will ever happen again and that there is NO excuse for this from anyone and that it is 100% his fault. He has said "I wont ask your forgiveness just yet but I hope to soon when I feel completely deserving. Make NO mistake I love mom and I screwed up and I hope she'll allow me to make it up to her" He has spoken individually with each of them on 2 occassions since telling them earlier this year. Our son said "you dont owe me any further explaination but you owe mom everything" and our daughter said " good. I hope you prove it ".


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

There's another thread going on today about owning it & your H, CTU, really sounds like he's doing that with the whole family.

I will tell you what was doubly sad about my own father's revelation is that I think he was telling me in order to praise my mother. He wanted to tell me something intimate about his soulmate that would help me understand his pain. He said that the sex with my mother basically rocked his world for their entire marriage & that anything with anyone else was nothing in comparison. It was all TMI, but I think he was trying to connect with me about his wife and my mother.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Ive thought long and hard over this subject and refused to take any action or use any advice on it until I felt I had enough information to formulate the healthiest course of action _for my child_. I read books on the matter, I went to classes with a child's psychologist, and essentially digested as much as I could about telling him.... I took in an unbelieveable amount of information and reflection.

and then..... I did nothing. I will not tell him anything about his mother's betrayal. He will never know, at least out from my mouth. 

He will know that his mother and I getting divorced had nothing to do with him, that we love him more than life itself.

I have very strong opinons about this, but like religion or politics I won't argue them and talking about it makes me a little uneasy.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Ive thought long and hard over this subject and refused to take any action or use any advice on it until I felt I had enough information to formulate the healthiest course of action _for my child_. I read books on the matter, I went to classes with a child's psychologist, and essentially digested as much as I could about teliing him....
> 
> and then..... I did nothing. I will not tell him anything about his mother's betrayal. He will never know, at least out from my mouth.
> 
> He will know that his mother and I getting divorced had nothing to do with him, that we love him more than life itself.


Children are smart. They grow and become more intelligent by the day and when they mature they will understand and have their theories as to why most marriages do not "work" and as to a few ideas as to why their parents did not "work."


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Ive thought long and hard over this subject and refused to take any action or use any advice on it until I felt I had enough information to formulate the healthiest course of action _for my child_. I read books on the matter, I went to classes with a child's psychologist, and essentially digested as much as I could about telling him.... I took in an unbelieveable amount of information and reflection.
> 
> and then..... I did nothing. I will not tell him anything about his mother's betrayal. He will never know, at least out from my mouth.
> 
> ...


I get that but when you have "kids" that are adults its very difficult if not impossible to keep a secret of this magnitude when its going on in front of their faces. Our 9 yr old does NOT know and likely wont bc I dont believe its for a childs ear.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> and then..... I did nothing. I will not tell him anything about his mother's betrayal. He will never know, at least out from my mouth.
> 
> He will know that his mother and I getting divorced had nothing to do with him, that we love him more than life itself.


Friend of mine's dad did something similar. He refused to say anything, only that they had decided to get divorced because they could not live together anymore, but that if he wanted details he should ask his mom. My friend's mom told him a couple of stories, which his dad basically told him were not true. It was not until the third or fourth time that she finally admitted she had an affair. Apparently his dad did not want to attack him mom.


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## confused55 (Apr 30, 2011)

My daughters are 25 and 28. I haven't told them anything since my counsellor told me not to.

She said this won't affect the kind of grandfather he will be someday, so don't taint his image.

He is a great father to them for sure and they would fall apart knowing. I can't hurt them like that.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

tdwal said:


> Young children are very perceptive. When my grandson was 3 you wouldn't believe what he picked up. He was being abused and the things he told us and the psychologist were in detail that an adult would pick up. He however did not understand it. Your children will perceive it but parent's need to make them understand or they will create messed up perceptions on their own.


It's definitely true that a lot of children perceive and know a lot more than we think they do. Or at the very least, they know something is wrong. What you read a lot about here is the WW who turns into a party girl with the GNOs and toxic friends - the kids at home can't avoid knowing that something is very different. So what do you do when the choice to tell them or not is made by the parent who is cheating and has stopped caring what the kids see and think? (This is p1ssing me off just typing it...)


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

As an adult child, I normally would not want to know about cheating because it would ruin my impression of that parent. Especially in your case since your mom has passed away. 

Try to look past your father's indiscretions. It sounds as though he really loved your mother but gave into temptation here and there. Now you see he's human flawed like the rest of us. 

My wife cheated and left me and told our 3 and 5 year old daughters "Mommy and Daddy don't love each other anymore" and "Mommy has a new boyfriend; you know, just like kids do at school". And then she had OM move in shortly after we split up. So that's an example of complete recklessness to put things in perspective.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

staystrong said:


> As an adult child, I normally would not want to know about cheating because it would ruin my impression of that parent. Especially in your case since your mom has passed away.
> 
> Try to look past your father's indiscretions. It sounds as though he really loved your mother but gave into temptation here and there. Now you see he's human flawed like the rest of us.
> 
> My wife cheated and left me and told our 3 and 5 year old daughters "Mommy and Daddy don't love each other anymore" and "Mommy has a new boyfriend; you know, just like kids do at school". And then she had OM move in shortly after we split up. So that's an example of complete recklessness to put things in perspective.


This is a perfect example of what you hear about so often on TAM. Children as afterthoughts. Children as collateral damage. Children treated as if their psyches weren't really there and that you can say whatever pops into your head to them.

As adults, we can manage if we have to learn that our parents weren't particularly honorable. The little ones, though.....

Your children are lucky, staystrong, to have one good parent.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> This is a perfect example of what you hear about so often on TAM. Children as afterthoughts. Children as collateral damage. Children treated as if their psyches weren't really there and that you can say whatever pops into your head to them.
> 
> As adults, we can manage if we have to learn that our parents weren't particularly honorable. The little ones, though.....
> 
> Your children are lucky, staystrong, to have one good parent.


Thanks alte Dame.

It's part of the WS fog to think things such as "kids are resilient", "it's for the best" and "time will heal all wounds".


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It's part and parcel of the selfishness. It's completely self-serving to think that way.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> It's part and parcel of the selfishness. It's completely self-serving to think that way.


My STBXW will make decisions that are clearly NOT in our kids best interests but will always rationalize it by saying "It is in the kids best interests, *given the circumstances*." Eg - she wants to be seen as a more involved Mom, so she has started insisting that she has our daughters 50% of the time vs every other weekend. Even though she has a one bedroom condo and our girls do not like spending an extended period there and hate living out of a suitcase, my wife says "It is in their best interests, given the circumstances". 

What is not said is that the "circumstances" are: My wife cheated. Lied about it. Moved out into a 1 bedroom executive condo that is not kid friendly (but a perfect bachelorette pad). Very expensive for what she got - she could have rented a house in the immediate neighborhood for roughly the same amount of $$$. But it wouldn't have all the bells and whistles that SHE wanted....

Completely self serving and ultra selfish.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Ooph. That's very selfish.

My STBXW is a good mother overall but she has made decisions which make her a bad mother as well. Having the OM move in is clearly one of them. But in terms of child-rearing responsibilities, she does a good job.

One thing I've come to learn is how much she leans on other people while claiming to be so independent. It seems like she is always at someone else's house with the kids. That way, no mess and fuss at home and kids can play while she talks to the adults.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Yes. "Given the circumstances."

The language is exonerating. It's like "it just happened," or "the situation arose." You can easily use the language to support your whitewashing & I think many of these WS's actually believe that the situations are things that have happened to them rather than things they caused.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Ugh! I am almost triggering over this thread.

My mom...it wasn't the cheating; it was all the other stuff she did AFTER the cheating. Moving far away. Running her life as she saw fit. As an 8th grader living with her, I did all the laundry, cooked my own dinners and raised myself the year I lived with her. 

Even then I could see what a horrible way to be raised that was and I moved back with my father. Of course, she guilted me every single time it was time for a visit. Twice she wasn't there to pick us up from the airport. Once she let a strange man I didn't know pick me up.

God, what a train wreck of a parent. I wish I could say I'm a lot better but I wonder how deep a mark she left in me after all this time.

My sister will have nothing to do with her anymore. I still feel twinges of duty. Not affection. Not love. Not respect. Duty.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> My question here is for all the betrayeds and waywards who have children.
> 
> How do you tell them? What do you tell them? How are they changed?
> 
> ...


As someone who had his childhood ruined due to infidelity, I'd like to ask the waywards here an extension of this question. While you were in the middle of your romantic encounters or hot sex or whatever (meaning having your encounters), with you APs did your children ever enter your minds at all while you were with them or were you too wrapped up in the selfishness of it all?


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> I'd like to ask the waywards here an extension of this question. While you were in the middle of your romantic encounters or hot sex or whatever (meaning having your encounters), with you APs did your children ever enter your minds at all while you were with them or were you too wrapped up in the selfishness of it all?



This is the exact question I asked my wife. Seriously. "When I had the kids at the cottage and you were banging K***n, did you ever think of us?" 

Of course, I did not get an answer.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

JCD said:


> Ugh! I am almost triggering over this thread.
> 
> My mom...it wasn't the cheating; it was all the other stuff she did AFTER the cheating. Moving far away. Running her life as she saw fit. As an 8th grader living with her, I did all the laundry, cooked my own dinners and raised myself the year I lived with her.
> 
> ...


You're a living response to one of my biggest questions on TAM. There is thread after thread about women who suddenly go 'off.' They work out, go for GNOs, start partying hard & of course, cheating on their H's. Their children are nothing more than afterthoughts, it seems. And yet, almost to a person, the BH will talk about what a good mother the WW was before she went off the rails.

We hear all of that and now JCD gives us a real picture of what life was like in the aftermath. All that's left is a sense of duty for him.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Good post. I'm sorry your view of your father has been changed OP. 

My son (8) is just starting to open up to me about his feelings about everything that's occurred in the last few months and it's heart-wrenching to see and hear the pain he's going through. He cried so hard this week and it was so hard to see him so broken and sad. He doesn't know that his dad cheated. I have done my best to shield him from that. If I need to vent, I do so during my son's school hours or on the weekend when he isn't here.

All he knows is that we are no longer together and he doesn't understand why. He wants so badly for his father and I to be a family again. He is sick of having two houses and tells me this is like his worst nightmare coming true. 

While I am civil with my ex, I don't imagine ever being friends with my children's father at all at this point. He is just so clueless and I find it hurtful, not only for me but for our kids.

Posts like this about how this all affects children are hard to read for me... especially as I find myself comforting our son and not having all of the answers to his "whys?". Forget what this has done to me, I am so angry at my ex for hurting our kids. I just want to take his pain away but I can't. Not to mention, my ex is becoming one of "those" parents that thinks his extravagant gifts or fun outings will somehow make up for the destruction he's done to our family. 

All I can think is "sure, our son would much rather have a new Wii or computer than an intact family! NOT!" Selfish, selfish man.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

This is the tiniest glimpse into my life. I won't go any deeper but just reflecting on the things I went through...damn it. I'm sorry I read this thread. This is dredging crap up that I can't believe.

Anyway, I can't say if she is typical of the species, or I was just lucky to have someone who was an outlier on the bell curve (bad luck is still luck)

On reflection, she wasn't a junkie mom. She wasn't totally abusive. There were some issues.

But to answer your question, was MY mom a good mom? No.

And anyone who has warm and fuzzy thoughts about bohemian 'free spirits', F U! Free spirits leave. Free spirits aren't tied to anything...including kids. Free spirits use their 'license' to rub their little pleasure bumps at the expense of their children.

Vent over. Sorry.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Alte Dame

Thank you for this thread and the other posters for telling it like it is

On another thread I stated that mothers or fathers that have affairs are molesters of children’s emotions. A few posters got defensive and attack me personally. Frankly I think that the truth was just too hard for them to read. You people on this thread prove my point

I did not post those words of molesters of children’s emotions to grind the betrayer into the dirt. I posted it because the WS was saying good things about the OM. I wanted her to see reality and what that OM was willing to do to her children for his own selfish needs. If she could see what the other man helped her do maybe she would stop saying anything good about him and her husband would not have to hear that crap. 

In addition, I m sick of people perverting the word love for their own selfish shyt. Finally, I wanted for anyone thinking about betrayal to see the costs and maybe that would stop them.

I am reprinting part of my post below:


[


> U]By Mrs. Mathias[/U]
> I told him that *Matt and my son were the most important things to me, and he said he understood that, *wanted me to be happy and [*U]just loved me anyway[/U*]. It was/is despicable of me, but I craved that feeling. “*Unqualified” love,* or whatever. No judgment about my dedication to my jobs, no feelings of inadequacy, no wondering what he was thinking/feeling and projecting my own emotions in it’s place. We let the EA fully develop with I love yous
> 
> 
> ...



Below are some of the responses to me calling a parent that betrays the family a molester of Children’s emotions




> *Quote of Numbers*
> I think you should not be so harsh on the OM – calling him a child molester. Yes, what he did was despicable. But remember, he was just a horny 19 year old boy. She is supposed to be the mature adult.
> 
> 
> ...


*Thanks again Alte Dame and JCD and others for giving the truthful real picture. 
Hopefully this truth will be helpful to others.*


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

^ thats pretty raw blunt, but I agree for the most part. 

I don't give a sh!t what anyone says. An affair isn't just betraying your wife or husband, its betraying your children as well. To put them in that kind of position, no matter how old they are is just despicable.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> Of course, I did not get an answer.


And you never will get an answer because the answer is they never think of the kids while getting banged. 

I posted here a few weeks ago that I feel that BSs should give WSs divorces from hell. A WS responded, rather angrily, that I was advocating hurting the children and that I didn't understand the dynamics of an affair, it's not all selfishness. So I asked the WS that while enjoying the pleasures of the APs company, was there ever a though about their children. How the affair could hurt the children? No Answer. They are all alike.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

What about adult children who have their own families?


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Ive thought long and hard over this subject and refused to take any action or use any advice on it until I felt I had enough information to formulate the healthiest course of action _for my child_. I read books on the matter, I went to classes with a child's psychologist, and essentially digested as much as I could about telling him.... I took in an unbelieveable amount of information and reflection.
> 
> and then..... I did nothing. I will not tell him anything about his mother's betrayal. He will never know, at least out from my mouth.
> 
> ...



While I did not directly tell my kids they do hear the yelling and know something is going on. My 12 year old daughter even knows my WW had sex with someone else but I am not sure she really understands what that means.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I find myself reading posts here and 'liking' them all, I think because we're all saying the same basic thing, which is that the children deserve far better & that people who live out their drama so selfishly visit real pain on their kids. And they often don't give much thought to it. It always seems to go back to the self-centeredness.

When people ask me how it feels to have grown children, I now say that you have a few children, you're young, with the energy of youth & then you wake up 20 years later and you're old - the intervening years just kind of happened.

This happened to me because I was busy not thinking primarily of me for those decades. I was focused on my children. I wasn't a martyr by any means, but I worked to raise them to be moral, functioning adults & that meant that I had to focus outward and not drop the ball.

The selfishness that powers infidelity can destroy a child even if there's no obvious infidelity. I've come to believe that some people are good parents only if they are with SOs who essentially force them to be good.

My own father was a good father only until my mother died. Once she was gone, it was all about him all the time. My brother was just out of elementary school at the time & the absolute best thing you can say about my father's treatment of him is that he neglected him. Here's a little kid whose mother just died suddenly & his father actively ignores him - basically for the rest of his life. So, my selfish father was a good father to us only when the W he loved was around. Otherwise, well - "I've got my life. It's nobody else's business," he would say.

So, I guess it always comes down to the selfishness.

And to old timer - I don't think adult children should be told. For me it's not worth it.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I find myself reading posts here and 'liking' them all, I think because we're all saying the same basic thing, which is that the children deserve far better & that people who live out their drama so selfishly visit real pain on their kids. And they often don't give much thought to it. It always seems to go back to the self-centeredness.
> 
> When people ask me how it feels to have grown children, I now say that you have a few children, you're young, with the energy of youth & then you wake up 20 years later and you're old - the intervening years just kind of happened.
> 
> ...


Alte, what about when those adult children still live at home or are in college and are home on weekends/break/summer???? For example it was virtually impossible for me to keep it from my daugther(19) since SHE was the one who originally said "who the hell is J.....and why are you constantly talking about her???" SEE that creates a bit of a problem. WS was saying OW's names obsessively-one of my first clues. J this, J that. Every day, several several times a day. And she was on Christmas break from college last year Dec 13th when the first real confrontation came about over J. Its easy to keep stuff like this from younger kids, our 9 yr old has no idea but adult kids who are in the home, nearly impossible if you are a close family.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

The odd thing, at least with my STBXW, is that she is capable of being a good and loving mother. But she has an "off" switch - which recently has malfunctioned and is flicking to "off" a lot more frequently than before. She still provides for the kids and takes care of them when she has them, but she has the ability to totally block them from her mind as she pursues her "singles" activities. To the point that I do not trust her when she is unexpectedly looking after eg - just my 14 year old daughter. She is inclined to approve my daughter going places or parties or to "friends" - that we (as a couple) probably wouldn't approve, just so that she can dump her off and then do what she wanted to do with her single friends.

It's like there are two personalities. She did the same thing to our marriage - as soon as she began her EA - it was like a switch turned off - and I don't recognize or even like what she has become.

That's what's so odd - it's not like she doesn't know how to be a good mother, or even a loving and loyal spouse - it's the fact that she can turn "off" what should be a full time job. Contrast that to me - I never wanted to be a part-time father and thought marriage was a lifetime commitment . Sometimes I wish I had the same "off" switch, it would make things a lot easier.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> Alte, what about when those adult children still live at home or are in college and are home on weekends/break/summer???? For example it was virtually impossible for me to keep it from my daugther(19) since SHE was the one who originally said "who the hell is J.....and why are you constantly talking about her???" SEE that creates a bit of a problem. WS was saying OW's names obsessively-one of my first clues. J this, J that. Every day, several several times a day. And she was on Christmas break from college last year Dec 13th when the first real confrontation came about over J. Its easy to keep stuff like this from younger kids, our 9 yr old has no idea but adult kids who are in the home, nearly impossible if you are a close family.


Yes, I think I misspoke or mistyped (?) because I wasn't thinking carefully enough. What I mean is that adult children whose parents did things when they were young & the children never really knew - to confess many years later when the children are on their own with their own lives, families, etc., seems to me not to be the best thing to do.

Your kids, CTU, were basically in the home when it was happening in real time & they were old enough to know that something was up. I think you handled it really well.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

We have not and will not tell our children. It is not their burden to carry. However, when they become adults if they ever come to us asking for advice because they sadly find themselves in the same situation, we would take from our place of experience in order to help them out.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> That's what's so odd - it's not like she doesn't know how to be a good mother, or even a loving and loyal spouse - it's the fact that she can turn "off" what should be a full time job. Contrast that to me - I never wanted to be a part-time father and thought marriage was a lifetime commitment . Sometimes I wish I had the same "off" switch, it would make things a lot easier.


The famous 'compartmentalizing.'


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

tdwal said:


> You have to take your own path, but do not be fooled into thinking that your children are not perceptive enough to figure it out and they will find some way to blame themselves for it and it will cause dysfunction later in life.


If any of children were to ever ask I would likely respond that it is between their father and I. All they need to see is that they still have a two parent home with parents that love each other and have nothing but their best interest at heart.

My husband and I have not argued in front of the kids or even spoken about it in anyway, shape or form in front of them. While I felt that my world was spinning when I found out, I kept life normal for my kids. That is what a parent does. They do not burden their kids with issues that are above their heads. However I will stipulate this by stating that my husband affair was only one and we never seperated in anyway. So there has been nothing to explain to them.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

Every divorced parent that I've met who has told their children about their spouse's affair tells me they regret telling the kids.

Children need to be able to openly love their parents for their own good.

With that said, my son tells me that my neighbor is a "Wife stealer".


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I would be hesitant to take my experiences alone and weave too broad a cover-up from it.

There might be cheating parents who are better able to swing the duality. Carlton says his wife isn't a bad mother, for example...except for the cheating thing.

Which, I understand is big.

I also happen to believe that kids are tougher than we believe. My sister and I are amazed at how...together we are considering some of the things that happened. 

It is a source of great pride to me that my marriage has lasted longer than that of my mother...and she was offended when I pointed this out


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Yes, I think I misspoke or mistyped (?) because I wasn't thinking carefully enough. What I mean is that adult children whose parents did things when they were young & the children never really knew - to confess many years later when the children are on their own with their own lives, families, etc., seems to me not to be the best thing to do.
> 
> Your kids, CTU, were basically in the home when it was happening in real time & they were old enough to know that something was up. I think you handled it really well.


I don't want to say too much because god knows who reads these boards, but in my own situation my mother had a breakdown when I was 11 and left. We (myself and siblings) had no idea what was going on, other than what our father and other relatives said; which was that she had mental problems and was a bad mother for leaving her children. It wasn't until I was in my 40's and both my parents passed away that I was able to piece together (through conversations with various aunts and uncles) that my mother's breakdown was caused by her finding out that my 35 year old father was banging a 20 year old college student on the side and was "in love". This changed how I will remember the man forever, and is why I have no tolerance for cheaters (scum of the earth). There is more to the story but, as I said, I don't know who is reading these boards.

Edit: This is also why I am committed to my wife and marriage and will not tolerate any opposite sex friends.


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## Doc Who (Sep 9, 2012)

What we often fail to realize is that the kids perceive a lot more than we EVEr give them credit. They sense the tension. They hear the late night disagreements. They feel the pain of the betrayed in ways we hope they will not. To what degree, who really knows. But let us not be so arrogant as to think we can hide all from our kids because they are just kids. They are people with feelings and intelligence.

Having said that, I have found in my practice to be honest but not detailed. No recriminations. Avoid judgements. Disclosing that your spouse is a betraying **** is counterproductive. Instead, help them understand that they are still loved regardless of the circumstances around them.

Focus on the fact that you love them and that will never change.

But don't lie if asked. They will remember the lying...


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Reply by TDWAL
> I would have to agree with AnnieAsh that your use of "molester" in the context you used it is extreme and insensitive to people who have really experienced it. Doesn't belong out here.


First I am going to give you the definition of MOLEST below
mo•lest (m -l st ) 
tr.v. mo•lest•ed, mo•lest•ing, mo•lests 

*1. To disturb, interfere with, or annoy.*
2. To subject to unwanted or improper sexual activity.

I made it clear in my posts that my use of the word molest was NOT about sexual molestation but about molesting the EMOTIONS of a child. My use of the word MOLEST was definetly the number 1 definition above. Annie changed my words from emotions to SEXUAL abuse. I Again MADE IT PERECTLY CLEAR TO HER IN MY RESPONSE BELOW.


Second, I am going to give BELOW my response to Annie Ash



> *Originally Posted by AnnieAsh *
> Mr Blunt, with all due respect, tossing around the phrase child molester and tailoring its definition to suit your needs is beyond ridiculous and offensive to those of us who have suffered from *sexual abuse. *
> 
> Om is a dirtbag, scumbag and a kid out to get laid. That is not the same freaking thing as *sexually violating a child.*
> ...


How about you read my posts carefully, stick with the facts rather than speculate about my needs.

Here are the facts again:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Blunt 
Is the child going to be affected by this affair?
Is the OM an adult?
Did Mrs. Matthias tell the OM that her child was the most important to her?
Is the OM’s action going to molest the emotions of that innocent Child?

*The answer to all the above is YES* 

Secondly, it obvious that you did not read my post very carefully or you just wanted to see it your way. I even underlined and highlighted the words that said “Molested EMOTIONS. No mention of your accusation of “sexually violating a child” 
Stop misrepresenting me.

Just so you don’t miss it again I am reprinting my exact words again.



> Quote:
> The OM is a child molester in that he has molested your child’s emotions.


Annie, at least read my post and quote me if you are going to judge me as ridiculous and offensive. You rewording my post to misrepresent is obvious and a thread jack.

My posts were directed to the OP not to you in hopes that she would realize that the OM was only in this for himself and cared more about his pleasure than the child. 

Here below again is what the OM said 




> Quote:
> I told him that Matt and my son were the most important things to me, and he said *he understood that, wanted me to be happy and just loved me *


Then the OM screwed her and now the child has real turmoil because he can sense the pain in both of his parents. I call the OM what he is, a molester of a child’s emotions, and you say that is offensive?

My post was to combat her feeling of “Craving” that kind of feeling. Remind her of reality and put reality over craving manipulating feelings that are a crock of shyt. In addition if she despises that kind of man that will help her the next time she is fed a line of crap. Also, it may help her husband to know that she has no good feelings left for any man that would put their pleasure above hurting a child. That is one reason that I said



> Quote:
> You should despise that OM as he has molested the emotions of your innocent child


Annie, you can misrepresent me and judge me as ridiculous and offensive all you want but I am not going to stop presenting the facts about the reality of what a betrayer does to a child. If the OP sees the reality of betrayal then maybe it will be a barrier to getting into another fog and fantasy that hurts a child. 
________________________________________
Last edited by Mr Blunt; 11-21-2012 at 02:28 AM. 


I cannot help it if people are going to change my words. I know that I used very strong language but something this important, that involves innocent children, needs to have the truth told in strong ways, not in a politically correct way. *However, I am not going to soft pedal the fact that when a mother or father cheats and betrays the whole family that the child’s emotions will be affected.* Actually I never mentioned adult children but by the reposes on this thread it appears that the emotional damage carries over up to adult ages.

By the way, *I also know that the emotional damage can be healed to a great degree with the right actions*. It will not be healed in weeks or months but in years with the proper actions by all.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think the word 'molest' has a core connotation in the language that means heinous, purposeful violation of an innocent. If we take that one word out of Mr. Blunt's opinion, it would not be incendiary to many people. For me, what cheating behavior can do to children can be heinous indeed. The fact that it is not purposeful at all in terms of 'doing something to a child,' is all the more telling. It says that the parent isn't even thinking about the effect on the children.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Excuse me. Mr Blunt, you dragging my name into this thread that I have not participated in is BEYOND creepy.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Unfortunately my older guys know some from hearing some of the fights but they have never said anything not sure about the younger ones in some ways I never want them to know but I will not take the blame if this doesn't work out I don't feel I should. I would never want them to hate their mom or anything but I won't take responsibility for HER actions
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

love=pain said:


> Unfortunately my older guys know some from hearing some of the fights but they have never said anything not sure about the younger ones in some ways I never want them to know but I will not take the blame if this doesn't work out I don't feel I should. I would never want them to hate their mom or anything but I won't take responsibility for HER actions
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As someone who's been through it, they should know. They shouldn't have to find out after one or both of you are gone.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> BY Annie Ash
> Excuse me. Mr Blunt, you dragging my name into this thread that I have not participated in is BEYOND creepy.



Annie, when you post something on a public forum you know that it can be used.
I only posted exactly what you said. If you do not want your posts to be posted then quit posting them. You cannot deny what you posted so you try and use the words of “BEYOND creepy” as if that had some relevance to this thread

This thread is titled “What about the Children”
I have been talking about children
*Your post is another one of your thread jacks*


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

I have a 6 year old son and a very smart 11 year daughter. After Dday my WW and I would have many conversations at home, once the kids went to bed and over text throughout the day and obviously many conversations got heated. Voices would raise, but never to the point of yelling.

While I do NOT think my kids need to know about this now and perhaps even ever...I was annoyed at my WW wife because it seemed to me that she was using the kids as an excuse to not talk about it. 

My daughter often plays games on my android and one day after a fairly lengthy thread of back and forths between WW and I, my daughter grabbed my phone and instead of playing a game, began reading trough my texts. I hadn't deleted any of them. 

My WW was furious because I hadn't deleted the texts. I do now try to remember to delete the texts, which is too bad, because it's helpful for me to go back and read them.

Anyway, I found it humorous that I was the bad guy for not rememberring to delete texts about discussing her EA with her, as though this infraction was more heinous than the reasons we were having to have these conversations in the first place.

That said, I don't think its right for my 11 year old to read this mature of content, but considering the circumstances WW, watch your tone with me!


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

My STBXW comes from a totally dysfunctional family. Her mother was abused by her Father (she was his third wife). When my STBXW was in first year university, she helped her mother to escape - moving her into an apartment where they scraped by. THEN, my STBXW's mother disappeared for two months. Nobody knew where she went - even my STBXW doesn't know where her Mom went for those two months. But during the time, my STBXW had to live with some of her friend's families.

So my STBXW has had a very skewed vision of marriage AND parenting which has probably come to the forefront during her mid-life crisis. I'm not a psychologist but I think my wife's case would probably be a good one to study. Essentially what she is doing right now is very similar to what her own Mom did to her. Disappear, live your own life, and to hell with the kids. The only exception is that my wife is doing this every other week.

Even with the kids, my STBXW will justify her inactions or selfish decisions by saying "So what? I grew up with worse and I turned out OK". That's the point I always say: "OK is a relative term...." after which I get the old stink eye thrown my way.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> Annie, when you post something on a public forum you know that it can be used.
> I only posted exactly what you said. If you do not want your posts to be posted then quit posting them. You cannot deny what you posted so you try and use the words of “BEYOND creepy” as if that had some relevance to this thread
> 
> This thread is titled “What about the Children”
> ...


That's even creepier. I'm actually weirded out right now. Legitimately.

ETA: I stand by what I wrote originally. You wrote "the om is a child molester" to be deliberately offensive and incendiary. Then you posted the definition of MOLEST not CHILD MOLESTER which is someone who sexually violates a child. That would be like me saying you have RAPED me by hunting down posts and trying to hold me up as someone who ENCOURAGES the destruction of families. 

You are unbelievably out of line, sir.


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## Bellavista (May 29, 2012)

When fWH left 12 years ago, our kids were 3, 6, 8, 10 & 12.

The eldest boy took it very hard, he is aspergers & the massive change in his life just threw him over the edge. He started acting out, his personality changed & I would say he has never been the same nice kid he was. He is 24 now & still bearing the scars, even though H & I reconciled. The 10yo son came & asked me if it was anything he had done, I said no, he was fine then. The other 3 never seemed affected at all.

When the kids found out that H was planning on marrying again, they schemed together to make the OW life very miserable. It never came to that because he never even brought her over from the country she was in & we Rd.

Overall, H does carry a large amount of guilt for our eldest son & the son is learning to take responsiblity for his actions. They have a fairly good relationship now; as much as you can with an emotionally & socially stunted aspie.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> As someone who's been through it, they should know. They shouldn't have to find out after one or both of you are gone.


While some of me agrees with you I would rather keep them as happy and unknowing as possible, is it wrong maybe but when you are unsure what to do sometimes it is best to do nothing at all.
How do you tell your children that one of their parents didn't care about the life that they had and was so reckless. It is a very fine line to get the kids to understand that the cheater still loves them very much and what they did was mostly due to their feelings toward their spouse and their own selfishness.
I wouldn't want my kids to love me more than her because of this or hate her that is a weight they just don't need to carry. That said if she does anything like this again or if the current situation blows up they will have to know some of it, that will be the time they have to know who is responsible for the break up of the home they love.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Depends on how you handle it. 

If you handle it by throwing them into the middle of it, (or some might say push/prodding) then they will grow to resent you. 
Throw in any abuse, and you'll be dead to them once they finish school. 

Also, depends on who tells them, and who was the wayward. 

The WS will obviously be shunned by the kids. That is a no brainer. The child will see them as the reason the family is forever in pieces. 
The BS will also likely receive support from the kids. 

And all the WS can do is take the abuse that the kids, the BS, and this site can heap on them, and deal with it. They made made their choice, so live with it. 

If anyone is curious as to how my situation affected me, have a story there. 
Was talking with my younger brother a few nights ago. Very few people know of the situation the man my mother married put me in. But he can see the changes. And he asked me about it. 
I smile less. I joke less. I am more serious, less trusting, quick to anger and lash out. Told me I use to be nicer, helping him with homework, giving him driving lessons, and I don't do that anymore. 
And sadly, I can't argue with him at all. I am not the same anymore. 

But I also imagine, or at least like to think, that most kids aren't put in the situation I was during the divorce.


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## bouillon (Nov 13, 2012)

My dad had an affair when I was about four. He would take me and my brother to the park to play with this lady's children. My brother who is 5 years older was out there having a great time. I was pissed. My mother, father, and the AP had a meeting at the house where they sat down and talked. I was told to go to my room, but I hid and listened. At 4 I knew what infidelity was. My parents argued in front of us about the affair, and my mother's suspicions... even 13 years later (they decided to reconcile but divorced when I was 17). 

Through the back and forth I learned that my mother cheated on my father with a superior (they were both in the Navy) before I was born, with one of his friends, that he cheated on his first wife for my mother, with the new lady,l... EVERYTHING and I knew all of this by at least the age of 12. I could only sit and watch as this train wreck of a marriage went on and on and on. They divorced when I was 17 and my dad remarried before my 18th birthday...

How did it affect me? 

I had a lot of resentment for both of them. By 12 I was disgusted. I felt like they were selfish for trying to stay together. Both of them were mentally and emotionally damaged, I saw that and understood it, and hated them for it. I have a daughter now and can count on one hand the number of times she's seen them. Honestly, I'm really uncomfortable with bringing my child around either one of them.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Broken at 20 said:


> Depends on how you handle it.
> 
> If you handle it by throwing them into the middle of it, (or some might say push/prodding) then they will grow to resent you.
> Throw in any abuse, and you'll be dead to them once they finish school.
> ...


I think your father has been especially dishonorable, Broken. He seems to be treating you differently from your siblings because of your age. How do your sister and brother feel about him?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *Originally Posted by Mr Blunt *
> Annie, when you post something on a public forum you know that it can be used.
> I only posted exactly what you said. If you do not want your posts to be posted then quit posting them. You cannot deny what you posted so you try and use the words of “BEYOND creepy” as if that had some relevance to this thread
> 
> ...





> *BY ANNIE ASH*
> That's even creepier. I'm actually weirded out right now. Legitimately.
> 
> ETA: I stand by what I wrote originally. You wrote "the om is a child molester" to be deliberately offensive and incendiary. Then you posted the definition of MOLEST not CHILD MOLESTER which is someone who sexually violates a child. That would be like me saying you have RAPED me by hunting down posts and trying to hold me up as someone who ENCOURAGES the destruction of families.
> ...


Annie
You can try all you want to change what I said from emotional molestation to sexual molestation but it is very clear in my posts on this thread that you are wrong. If anyone is interested in this silly debate, and I doubt that they are, they can read my post on this thread and can plainly see that I was referring to emotional molestation not sexual molestation. I made that point numerous times on numerous posts.

*Annie, if you insist on debating this subject start a new thread.*




Now I am going to stick with the subject of this thread with is “What about the children”

The OP, Alte Dame asked the question
How do you tell them? What do you tell them? How are they changed?

Listed below are partial posts from people that have experienced how children are changed that also include their changed emotions. 
*The emotional damage to the children are very obvious.*

TCSRedhead
I can honestly say my relationship with them (teenagers) got a lot more strained after this

Alte Dame
My brother (an adult) just said, "Yeah, what'd you expect? Dad's a dog."
As adults, we can manage if we have to learn that our parents weren't particularly honorable. The little ones, though.....
There is thread after thread about women who suddenly go 'off.' They work out, go for GNOs, start partying hard & of course, cheating on their H's. Their children are nothing more than afterthoughts

I find myself reading posts here and 'liking' them all, I think because we're all saying the same basic thing, which is that the children deserve far better & that people who live out their drama so selfishly visit real pain on their kids. And they often don't give much thought to it. It always seems to go back to the self-centeredness

*The selfishness that powers infidelity can destroy a child even if there's no obvious infidelity.*
For me, what cheating behavior can do to children can be heinous indeed.

Cedarman
It went over the head of my youngest daughter (who was 9) but my oldest daughter has not forgotten. In fact, she wrote a letter to a friend of hers last summer which talked about how her Mom had cheated for years and had "almost destroyed our family"
So my eldest daughter has definitely changed her view of her Mom

Canttrustu
In the mos since then they have been very supportive to me and have told him that basically he's on thin ice when it comes to their respect for him. So yes, it has long term effects....

LetdownNtX
Its just hard to wrap my brain around the idea that a family can hide this sort of thing when it has such an affect on our thoughts, moods, emotions, etc.your kids sense the distance between mother and father.

He will walk right past my H and I in the mornings to go to school and say "bye mom, I love you" and not even acknowledge his father. My husband hasnt earned his respect back

Confused55
He is a great father to them for sure and they would fall apart knowing.

The Middleman
As someone who had his childhood ruined due to infidelity,
So I asked the WS that while enjoying the pleasures of the APs company, was there ever a though about their children. How the affair could hurt the children? No Answer. They are all alike.






Miss Taken
My son (8) is just starting to open up to me about his feelings about everything that's occurred in the last few months and it's heart-wrenching to see and hear the pain he's going through. He cried so hard this week and it was so hard to see him so broken and sad.
All he knows is that we are no longer together and he doesn't understand why. He wants so badly for his father and I to be a family again.

While I am civil with my ex, I don't imagine ever being friends with my children's father at all at this point
Forget what this has done to me, I am so angry at my ex for hurting our kids. I just want to take his pain away but I can't


JCD
But to answer your question, was MY mom a good mom? No.

And anyone who has warm and fuzzy thoughts about bohemian 'free spirits', F U! Free spirits leave. Free spirits aren't tied to anything...including kids. Free spirits use their 'license' to rub their little pleasure bumps at the expense of their children.

Kasler
An affair isn't just betraying your wife or husband, its betraying your children as well. To put them in that kind of position, no matter how old they are is just despicable.

TDWAL
do not be fooled into thinking that your children are not perceptive enough to figure it out and *they will find some way to blame themselves for it and it will cause dysfunction later in life.*
Im not saying small children even know what an affair is, but *they will recognize and internalize the stress and tension*. Its how they perceive this that causes them to have issues later on.



If the above is not enough to convince you then nothing is!


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> What I struggle with is whether it's better or worse for them to know.
> 
> I think it must depend in some way on mothers/daughters, fathers/sons. My brother wasn't at all surprised, although the rest of us were stunned (four daughters). My brother just said, "Yeah, what'd you expect? Dad's a dog."


When my wife first got home from her cruise (with the OM), we sat down with our 2 boys about age 12 and 16 and I made her tell them. 
I have always regretted that decision! The OM and I were "best friends" and he was so intertwined with my family. Both him and his GF did pretty much everything with us. I knew if he was suddenly not around there would be questions, but I know now it was also a way to shame her and/or punish her. I know her affair deeply affected my boys and although they love their mother dearly, I know it changed them too. The older one always has trust issues and now he's married and is very possesive of his wife. I also believe that's part of why I worked so hard at keeping our marriage together. I was on a mission to prove we were going to survive and our love was stronger than this...


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

S4E said:


> When my wife first got home from her cruise (with the OM), we sat down with our 2 boys about age 12 and 16 and I made her tell them.
> I have always regretted that decision! The OM and I were "best friends" and he was so intertwined with my family. Both him and his GF did pretty much everything with us. I knew if he was suddenly not around there would be questions, but I know now it was also a way to shame her and/or punish her. I know her affair deeply affected my boys and although they love their mother dearly, I know it changed them too. The older one always has trust issues and now he's married and is very possesive of his wife. I also believe that's part of why I worked so hard at keeping our marriage together. I was on a mission to prove we were going to survive and our love was stronger than this...


As you can see from this thread, I wrestle with this. One of the reasons is that there is a very accepted, fairly standard bit of advice that specialists give to the spouses, but it remains so unclear and difficult about what the children should know.

The chances are very high that your children would have known anyway. They definitely would have sensed the change in you and their mother. Many adult children of infidelity say they sorely wish that their parents had brought it out into the open. Some say they wish they had never known. The age of the children is critical in my mind & your children were on a cusp at the time.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

My kids were 17, 14 and 9 when my H and I separated because of his A. Leading up to that things were very difficult at home. There was no screaming and shouting just a lot of talking behind closed doors and a lot of crying (from me). The children KNEW something was t right.

They were all devastated when H moved out. My daughter (youngest) and middle son were VERY emotional. Despite us living apart they saw their dad everyday. I believed the children deserved an explanation. He told them we weren't living together because we weren't getting on and needed some time apart. I told them we weren't living together because daddy had a girlfriend. It was t said with blame or contempt but I believed they needed to know the truth. I don't regret it at all. When H moved back home He apologised to them all for his behaviour and for hurting them and mummy. My oldest son took a while to come around as he had stepped up as the man of the house and felt very protective of me. The other two were just glad daddy was home. 

I can understand those who don't want to tell but for me I made the right decision. I have two sons and in a way I think it was good for them to see the heartache that infidelity can cause. We had quite a few conversations about the importance of fidelity and respect. They have also all learned that we all make bad choices in life but that love and forgiveness can be extended to those who have hurt us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Hard for my kids (mid-teens) not to know as their mother is cheating on them as well as me...going off and spending time with OM that she could be spending with them. Kids are incredibly upset and feel that she just doesn't give a **** about them. But they try to get on with her as best they can so she thinks that everything is OK. 

She thinks that since we're divorcing that all of this is OK. She has a huge sense of entitlement and thinks that it's fine for her "happiness" to be her no 1 priority - ahead of anything else. I think she justifies it to herself with lots of BS pop-pseudopsychology quotes about having to look after yourself before you're able to look after other people ("there's a reason the aircraft safety announcement tells you to put your oxygen mask on first before you help others" type nonsense). 

Meanwhile she accuses me of manipulating them against her. Won't admit to herself that her BS is what is driving the kids away - even when they have told her themselves how they feel. She just dismisses it and tells them they are being silly - and insists that she has a right to do what she wants. The irony is that I am the one telling the kids that they need to have a relationship with their mother. 

Glad i found this thread. Hearing that some other women have behaved in a similar way is a strange sort of comfort.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I don't struggle at all.

When I strayed, I told my son that I got too close to another woman as a friend, but didn't sleep with her. That it hurt my relationship with my wife.

For whatever reason, I didn't have this talk with the girls, but the wife was very frank and sometimes bitter about 'my girlfriend' and 'their new mom.' This probably WASN'T the way to address the issue...but we all say stupid stuff from time to time and I can't blame her.

That being said, when my mom joined the "Sausage of the Month" club, I spent time with a lot of guys I really didn't care for and was expected to 'be nice'.

I absolutely hated that and am probably still bitter about it.

So...I am in the camp of pointing out a) that the kids should never be pressured to 'make nice' with whomever the random bedpartner of the week is. Civil is all that can be expected and frankly, whomever shouldn't introduce the person until they are SERIOUS and EXCLUSIVE. It avoids the drama. B) I would strongly encourage the 'responsible' parent to make sure the kids keep the lines of communication open so they can get honest answers about abusive or neglectful circumstances.

Sorry for helping keep alive a zombie thread...or is it just comatose?


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

JCD said:


> Sorry for helping keep alive a zombie thread...or is it just comatose?


Resusitated...

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## S4E (Apr 13, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> As you can see from this thread, I wrestle with this. One of the reasons is that there is a very accepted, fairly standard bit of advice that specialists give to the spouses, but it remains so unclear and difficult about what the children should know.
> 
> The chances are very high that your children would have known anyway. They definitely would have sensed the change in you and their mother. Many adult children of infidelity say they sorely wish that their parents had brought it out into the open. Some say they wish they had never known. The age of the children is critical in my mind & your children were on a cusp at the time.


Looks like I maybe helped resuscitate your thread? Thanks for all of your advice and kind words. My parents divorced when my younger brothers were about the same age my own kids were when I found out about my wife. Part of my motivation of keeping my family together was so my boys did not have to go through everything I saw my brothers go through. As it turns out after a recent conversation with one of my brothers he informed me that when my parents got divorced it was one of the happiest days of his life.. so much for keeping it together for the kids! Best of luck!


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Since I grew up without a Dad, my grandpa sort of took that spot or at least that's what my Mom said it should be like. I do not remember when and how I found out (I think it was in my late teens/early twenties) but my grandpa did have an affair with another woman and had two kids with her that are about the same age as me.
My grandpa was always treated like a God by my Mom and aunt, so both of them made it out to be "not that big of a deal". My grandma saw it differently, of course. I grew up thinking that my grandpa could do no wrong, he was always the #1, better than anyone else and ................. honest. I remember him talking to me about honesty when I got caught smoking and lied about it. He died a few years ago. Don't get me wrong, I love my grandpa but I'm mad about the "lying is bad" talks when he was lying just as much. 

He never said "I'm sorry" and for a long long time I felt that it wasn't any of my business and I had no right to hear "I'm sorry". To this day my Mom will say that it was actually grandma's fault because she was a cold hearted woman and then there are the stories about my uncle cheating, my cousin cheating, my Mom being the OW. I guess I developed a very strong opinion about all this when I cheated myself. My family lives overseas and if there wouldn't be the Atlantic ocean between them and me already, I'd do whatever it takes to put it there. 

When I cheated, I told our daughter right away and I asked for her forgiveness. She was 11 at the time. It was an awkward age for her to begin with and it was hard for her dealing with the affair. She did ask me questions about it, saying she didn't want to hear "those" details if there were any. She asked if I wanted us to stay together or if we would get divorced now. I told her that I didn't know how it would end up being and I told her that if we ended up divorcing, it would be my fault and my fault alone. Had we divorced, there wouldn't have been a custody drama. This is one of the things he and I agreed on 100%. This gave her some assurance.

Earning trust back and giving trust was extremely hard for my husband and me and in the beginning there were phases where neither one of us thought we'd make it for another day. It scared her but she always said "Yeah, I know. You both love me and there won't be any custody fights!" As I learned about triggers etc. I explained to her how and why they happen. When we were about 4 years after D-day, I felt there were many unresolved issues that my husband still struggled with. While I was an expert in cheating, I wasn't an expert in mending a marriage and it never occurred to me that we had done "rug sweeping". I called a MC. My daughter said "I didn't think you guys still had problems." We both assured her there wasn't anything she should be worried about, that we simply needed to talk to someone neutral to help us resolve some things we weren't able to deal with. She was fine with it.

We didn't stay together for her or because of her. We tried harder for her and because of her. She's turning 16 this month. We have become much closer as a family. We eat dinner together at the table, we talk about our day, we make fun of each other, we do chores together. She says that her parents are different than others, mainly because we are married. She says she grew up a littler faster because of what I did but she also says that's a good thing because it gave her examples of what not to do.

I don't know if she sees me differently. I have never asked. I assume that she does. I don't have the guts to ask.

I get resentment over asking her to clean her room, pick up her shoes and do her laundry more often. I also get resentment over being older and therefore having more experience and knowing some stuff better than her. I never felt resentment from her over what I did. I can talk to her about lying because she knows I know firsthand how devastating the results can be. I can ask her "Do you want to be called a liar? It's not a nice place to be, you know" and she'll know why I say it and she knows I'm right. I can also talk to her about choices she makes and how devastating the outcome could be. And she'll know that I'm right!

She talks to me a lot. Not just stuff that goes on in school, some of it is emotional stuff...poems she writes, opinions about what goes on in this world, boys, of course. If she didn't trust me, she wouldn't talk to me like that. I know she loves me. I know she trusts me and my husband to be her parents forever and to provide a safe haven for her and we are committed to do that!

I hope and pray that she will avoid making the same mistake I made and that it will serve her as an example of what not to do!

Last but not least, my husband and I have raised an extraordinary young lady despite everything. She is smart, she wins 1st prizes in art shows (she draws), she just applied for a part time job as a freelance writer for a local newspaper. If she gets the job, I'm gonna be crying for days! She has strong opinions, she has integrity (as far as a 16 year old can have integrity). She doesn't do drugs, wants nothing to do with alcohol or sleeping around with guys. No partying. She's focused on art, literature, keeping her room as messy as possible and not getting her driver's license. I couldn't ask for more. Sorry, this is off topic but I'm proud as heck of our kid!


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

JCD said:


> Ugh! I am almost triggering over this thread.
> 
> My mom...it wasn't the cheating; it was all the other stuff she did AFTER the cheating. Moving far away. Running her life as she saw fit. As an 8th grader living with her, I did all the laundry, cooked my own dinners and raised myself the year I lived with her.
> 
> ...


That's really sad.


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