# Not sure what to do now.. Wife appears to have regrouped



## Tool

Alright so my Wife and I have been together for 10 years now. About a year ago we were having issues, she is very controlling, verbally abusive and loved to use sex as a weapon. My money is her money, and she was hardcore about tracking everything I spent money on.

Even though I earned 4 times more then her, and did my fair share around the house - I wasn't doing enough.

I secretly met with a counselor and read the topics on here about manning up. And it worked perfectly, I manned up regained control of the household and our sex life returned.

Earlier this year we found out that we will be adding a 3rd child to our family and we couldn't be happier.

Now it appears she has begone to regroup and is going for the power plays again in an attempt I think to regain that power she craves. I don't know if it is hormones or what, but the verbal abuse is at an all new high, and is also not always directed at but the kids too. Manning up to her has now brought out physical abuse. During our last fight she had thrown objects at me and said she wishes she could kill me and told me to get out. I refused and said she was free to go. She backed down and things got a bit better.

Then this morning, she got very angry at our youngest and she yelled cussing him out (his is 3) and said he was the reason Mom's cut off their kids body parts and kill them.

I got into it with her about this, and made it clear I never want to hear that out of her mouth again. WTH?? that is crazy.

Are these warning signs? I'm a bit weirded out by it.

I understand people get upset and say things, but that really crossed the line.


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## silveryposter

Since this is your 3rd child, you know by now that pregnancy hormones can really do a number on women. It is different for each pregnancy, but EVERYTHING is amplified. If she is bossy and controlling, she will just be more so.

Not sure how she responds to talking it out, but make sure she knows how you feel. I've found that bringing up hormones is never a good idea, but you can always tell her that you know she is going through a hard time right now but you still need to be treated with respect.


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## AFEH

Tool said:


> Alright so my Wife and I have been together for 10 years now. About a year ago we were having issues, she is very controlling, verbally abusive and loved to use sex as a weapon. My money is her money, and she was hardcore about tracking everything I spent money on.
> 
> Even though I earned 4 times more then her, and did my fair share around the house - I wasn't doing enough.
> 
> I secretly met with a counselor and read the topics on here about manning up. And it worked perfectly, I manned up regained control of the household and our sex life returned.
> 
> Earlier this year we found out that we will be adding a 3rd child to our family and we couldn't be happier.
> 
> Now it appears she has begone to regroup and is going for the power plays again in an attempt I think to regain that power she craves. I don't know if it is hormones or what, but the verbal abuse is at an all new high, and is also not always directed at but the kids too. Manning up to her has now brought out physical abuse. During our last fight she had thrown objects at me and said she wishes she could kill me and told me to get out. I refused and said she was free to go. She backed down and things got a bit better.
> 
> Then this morning, she got very angry at our youngest and she yelled cussing him out (his is 3) and said he was the reason Mom's cut off their kids body parts and kill them.
> 
> I got into it with her about this, and made it clear I never want to hear that out of her mouth again. WTH?? that is crazy.
> 
> Are these warning signs? I'm a bit weirded out by it.
> 
> I understand people get upset and say things, but that really crossed the line.


I’m pretty certain that some people just don’t know what they sound like and would maybe change if they did. Get a voice activated recorder and when you’ve captured a suitable “piece” play it back to her during a quite moment.

As far as what she said to your son, that is in my mind exceptionally serious emotional abuse for which there is absolutely no excuse. Somehow you have to put a stop to it for your child’s sake, your wife’s sake and of course your own sake. Personally I wouldn’t let a woman who even thinks let alone says those sort of things near a child of mine, I’d be far too afraid of what she may actually do.


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## morituri

I agree, get a VAR and the next time she gets abusive with you and the children, tell her that you will take this to child protective services.

Pregnancy is NO excuse for abusive behavior.


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## SunnyT

Um, cussing out a three year old is NOT horomones. It is whack. If she won't get counseling.... record one of her fits, and take your children to a safer place. You cannot be ok with her talking to ANY child like that. YOU have to be the sane parent.


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## golfergirl

SunnyT said:


> Um, cussing out a three year old is NOT horomones. It is whack. If she won't get counseling.... record one of her fits, and take your children to a safer place. You cannot be ok with her talking to ANY child like that. YOU have to be the sane parent.


What a b!tch! Sorry, I have a challenging 3 year old and couldn't imagine. That tugs at my heart. Is she often like that with the kids? I agree with VAR and playing it back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## silveryposter

SunnyT said:


> Um, cussing out a three year old is NOT horomones. It is whack.


Must have missed that on my read through. Ack, yeah I agree there is no excuse for this kind of behavior.


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## alg1208

Tool said:


> Then this morning, she got very angry at our youngest and she yelled cussing him out (his is 3) and said he was the reason Mom's cut off their kids body parts and kill them.



Seriously? If my wife ever said that to my son that would be the end of our marriage. Period. If someone wants to say messed up things to me I can deal with it. But I draw the line with my kid. Run. Run far away and never look back. She's freaking psychotic.


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## MGirl

Tool said:


> Then this morning, she got very angry at our youngest and she yelled cussing him out (his is 3) and said he was the reason Mom's cut off their kids body parts and kill them.
> 
> I understand people get upset and say things, but that really crossed the line.


That just gives me the chills. If that's what's coming out of her mouth, what's going on in her head? Just scary. Cursing at them crossed the line. The next comment was far and beyond that line.

At the_ least_, even if she's just mouthing off and doesn't mean it, she's doing severe damage to your children. Don't underestimate how much it can affect them, even at age 3. Anyone who said something like that to my child would be out of my life. Period. End of sentence.

Sorry, just had to add this as well. It's bothering me. I know you've said in previous posts that you've had to use fire to fight fire to keep her under control. Your kids are watching how you interact together. Keep that in mind. Stay in control of the situation and don't resort to her behavior to try to get her to stop. Give your kids someone to look to, someone who's grounded and in control of themselves.


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## magnoliagal

I'm familiar with your wife. This baby is going to push her over the edge. In fact it's already started. Seriously. This isn't her regrouping this is likely PPD and while they might call it something else it can start while pregnant. 

Get her help STAT!! Don't mess around with this. It's NOT normal for a mother to threaten to hurt her children. She needs medical attention.


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## MGirl

magnoliagal said:


> i'm familiar with your wife. This baby is going to push her over the edge. In fact it's already started. Seriously. This isn't her regrouping this is likely ppd and while they might call it something else it can start while pregnant.
> 
> Get her help stat!! Don't mess around with this. It's not normal for a mother to threaten to hurt her children. She needs medical attention.


^^^^^
yes


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## morituri

The women of this forum are equally agreed upon that you should man up to protect your children. Your move.


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## Syrum

I agree that she needs help ASAP. How awful for her to talk to her child that way .


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## Tool

Thanks for the replies everyone.

If I do decide to get up and go, this is gonna be tricky. I really need to take a very strategic approach, cuzz being a Man I might end up losing the kids in a child custody battle.

Which I think defeats the purpose of leaving in the first place.

My word vs hers kind of thing. This is something she even brought up when I told her she will lose to kids talking like this.

She said "Your gonna have to prove it"

This whole thing is just absolutely ridiculous. We would have a great life if she wouldn't do this bull crap.

Everything is just perfect. This whole thing is not logical at all.

Everything I worked so hard to build will just get wrecked and ill have to start over.


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## Enchantment

Tool said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone.
> 
> If I do decide to get up and go, this is gonna be tricky. I really need to take a very strategic approach, cuzz being a Man I might end up losing the kids in a child custody battle.
> 
> Which I think defeats the purpose of leaving in the first place.
> 
> My word vs hers kind of thing. This is something she even brought up when I told her she will lose to kids talking like this.
> 
> She said "Your gonna have to prove it"
> 
> This whole thing is just absolutely ridiculous. We would have a great life if she wouldn't do this bull crap.
> 
> Everything is just perfect. This whole thing is not logical at all.
> 
> Everything I worked so hard to build will just get wrecked and ill have to start over.


Hi Tool ~

Sorry you are having to go through this.

I would say that you are likely not going to get far if you look at this from a logical perspective. When there are emotions, or even mental health issues, involved there is no logic.

Firstly, I would look in to getting your wife some help. Talk with her doctor about this - it is not normal to say the kinds of things that she said to your 3 year old. She could have some underlying mental health issues that are being exacerbated by her pregnancy.

Secondly, I would start to document everything. If it does come to having to split, would you feel comfortable letting her have control of your children?

Can you even sit down and discuss this with your wife at all? Does she show any remorse for saying the things she does and acting the way she does? If I were in the same situation, I would INSIST that she gets help - either medical help or counseling help or both - and I would frog march her in to doing it, otherwise I would look into taking my kids and leaving. No child should ever have to grow up with a memory of their mom saying she would kill them.

Ultimately, I would suggest that you consider doing what is best for your kids in this situation - they are the innocent ones who need protecting.

Best wishes.


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## Tool

If I tell her she needs help, she is gonna tell me im the problem.. so thats not gonna work..

I think an option is to see a marriage counselor, im sure she would go for that thinking someone else would tell me im wrong lol. And then get it out from there.


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## MGirl

I don't think you're taking this as seriously as you need to. You do realize she inadvertently threatened to kill one of your children, right? She needs medical help. Today. 

Marriage counseling, my ass. Protect your kids right now. Worry about marriage counseling later.

Just my $.02, though.


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## AFEH

Tool you’re definitely not taking this seriously enough. As demonstrated by the lol. This is nothing to laugh about whatsoever.

Some mothers/fathers do wicked, evil things to their children. But before they do them, they have to think them first. Your wife has given you, the father of her/your children, a massive heads up about her thoughts with regards to her children.

You do not know if her thoughts are her intents. You will only know that should you get home one day to a very tragic scene.

Are you willing to take that risk?

Go and see her doctor. Register with them what has happened and ask for their help. They may well get social services involved and you may well have your children taken from you while they investigate. Don’t live with the regret that you didn’t do anything.


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## mayatatia

Even if she never "kills" him in reality.... it's still verbal and emotional abuse, which is extremely damaging to a child. Your child may grow up either being an abuser himself or being abused. It really doesn't sound like the entire problem is pregnancy, unless she has always had a hormonal imbalance and has amplified with pregnancy. But even if its an imbalance, by her not recognizing it and getting help, it doesn't matter. Your child is at risk. Go to her next doctors appt. and bring this up in a loving way. Let her know that you are concerned about her as well and your children.


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## Tool

So I should bring this up to her Doc that she sees for the baby.

God I can't believe this is happening.

She has said to me several times that im ruining her life. If she could only see that she is in fact the one doing it.

If we did breakup and she got the kids, its gonna be a big wake up call when she realizes how good she really had it. And that is what scares me the most that something could actually happen at that point.


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## AFEH

Tool, I don’t think your path ahead is either clear or easy.

If I were in your shoes I’d meet with the Doc she sees for the baby. But I would do it by myself and without my wife’s knowledge.

Hopefully others will come in with more options for you.


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## joshbjoshb

Tool, I cannot tell you how much your situation sound so familiar to me! I read your post with disbelief as almost the same story happened to me, except it wasn't that bad.

Well, let me tell you this. Your wife is sick. I bet she is the most insecured person in the world, claiming to be the most secured one - but only when it comes to you. She is afraid of every little thing, but will try go gain control over you. This is because she is so lost, and feels so zero control in her life, that she is letting it all out on you.

This is not a case of you having to "man up". You need to set boundaries and be clear about them. There is nothing wrong in telling her "this is unacceptable to me, If you want to ask something, you have to ask it nicely otherwise forget about me helping you out."

However, the comment re the kids is VERY disturbing and I would have consulted someone about it. Could be that for the sake of a wake up call you should be the one threatening to separate. I believe that deep inside she is scared of the day that she will have to be on her own.


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## Ten_year_hubby

One comment to a three yo isn't going to permanently damage anyone but a steady diet of this stuff can create a problem.

If you can get her to admit to what she said, show genuine remorse, apologize and promise not to do it again then you are good. Everyone does things they regret.

I'm more worried about the throwing stuff (which could cause real damage or injury) and how this seems to be another phase of an ongoing problem. Throwing stuff and talking about murder are both outside the objective bounds of acceptable behavior. Not realizing this is the real problem here. You need to see some sign that she understands this


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## AllyM

Tool,
You have one job in this world and that is to protect your kids. Your wife needs serious help. I want you to google Borderline Personality Disorder, this is what I grew up with and sounds exactly like your wife. My mother was the same way and I hate to be the bearer of bad news but bpd's never change, they can't because nothing is ever their fault so they will never see what you are telling them is their faults. It may be tricky but you seriously have to consider your kids.
I'm pulling for you.


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## calif_hope

Next time she crossing the line with your child, bring up the custody, and when she asks about proving it......just give her a smirky smile and tell her you got that covered......


:scratchhead:


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Saying to your 3 year old that moms cut up children into body parts is definitely not okay. I heard less than that through my apartment walls once as a threat to pound a child into the carpet and called child protective services and the child was taken away the same day (and rightly so because it wasn't the first time). I did not have a voice as a child (figuratively but also literally, the abuse left me speechless). You may think there is no damage from words but kids do understand that mommy might lose it and that their nightmares are not actually just harmless dreams. You are the responsible party here in terms of keeping your children safe. There is nothing to stop you from taking your children and moving them to a safe place with you when she says things like that, the kids need to see that you will keep them safe. It doesn't have to be dramatic, just a gesture, like say to the kids, mommy is not feeling right and so we are going to have some quiet time away from her where we can relax. Take them to a movie or to a McDonald's where there is a play area or a community center. If it is at night, if you don't have an understanding friend who can set up a safe haven for you then spring for a hotel/motel room. Some hostels have family rooms you can go to. Your place of employment might also have resources available through employee assistance program. I am sorry this is happening in your house. Sounds like your wife is scared due to pregnancy and is regressing, but I also think that grownups should be able to figure out that they are not behaving properly for the situation and seek help for themselves to figure it out. Especially when they are moms. I am harder on myself than I would be if I didn't have children, because if a parent has no courage to go the distance 100% of the time for her kids, and knows it, the loss to self-esteem would be horrible. So when you put your foot down on any kind of abuse of the children, you are doing your wife a favor by keeping the scales from tipping in a direction where she will feel she is useless and just give up. Definitely let her know she is fully capable of seeking help and that it's expected of her to do so. You'll be patient about it, so far as YOU are concerned, but you have the right to keep the children safe. She should 'get' this. If she doesn't, I'd make arrangements to take her for involuntary commitment (psych eval) next time she makes a threat.


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## Trenton

Please, I know Kaylee Anthony just died a terrible and rather unknown death but let's not go around saying that most mothers who say things they didn't mean but saw on Oprah and blurted out in the heat of frustration equal a baby killed. There'd be a helluva lot more babies killed. Secondly, let's ask a few more questions so that we can get a clearer picture before we charge this woman with murder and lock her up for life. Jeeeeezus.

Is she normally a good parent who shows restraint, patience and love with your child?

Was it a particularly frustrating day or is she having a particularly difficult time right now?

Is she overall a bad parent who endangers your 3 year old and doesn't care about the welfare or well being of your 3 year old?

Does she ever physically hurt your child?

Does she normally belittle your child and make him feel horrible whenever she is angry?

Why did you decide to have another child if your wife is such a horrible parent/wife?

Why didn't you talk to her about the comment and see if she regretted it? Find out why (beyond you) she is having a rough time right now? You may think you're supportive but if your wife doesn't get this, it's possible she is frustrated and feeling all alone and had a moment of horrible parenting. If you think this is the case and not the later...that she is a monster waiting to explode and cut your 3 year old's arms and legs off (which was on Oprah by the way about mothers who were dealing with postpartum depression).

It is very possible that she is dealing with a variant of depression stemming from her hormones but unless she is delusional or completely out of it, I'd include her in any process to help her through it. Otherwise, she will consider your behavior a betrayal and quite frankly, I wouldn't blame her.


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## morituri

If her emotional outbursts become more frequent and disturbing, demand that she go to counseling with you. If she refuses, then go by yourself. It may even help you if things turn uglier and you want to attain custody of the kids.


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## golfergirl

Trenton said:


> Please, I know Kaylee Anthony just died a terrible and rather unknown death but let's not go around saying that most mothers who say things they didn't mean but saw on Oprah and blurted out in the heat of frustration equal a baby killed. There'd be a helluva lot more babies killed. Secondly, let's ask a few more questions so that we can get a clearer picture before we charge this woman with murder and lock her up for life. Jeeeeezus.
> 
> Is she normally a good parent who shows restraint, patience and love with your child?
> 
> Was it a particularly frustrating day or is she having a particularly difficult time right now?
> 
> Is she overall a bad parent who endangers your 3 year old and doesn't care about the welfare or well being of your 3 year old?
> 
> Does she ever physically hurt your child?
> 
> Does she normally belittle your child and make him feel horrible whenever she is angry?
> 
> Why did you decide to have another child if your wife is such a horrible parent/wife?
> 
> Why didn't you talk to her about the comment and see if she regretted it? Find out why (beyond you) she is having a rough time right now? You may think you're supportive but if your wife doesn't get this, it's possible she is frustrated and feeling all alone and had a moment of horrible parenting. If you think this is the case and not the later...that she is a monster waiting to explode and cut your 3 year old's arms and legs off (which was on Oprah by the way about mothers who were dealing with postpartum depression).
> 
> It is very possible that she is dealing with a variant of depression stemming from her hormones but unless she is delusional or completely out of it, I'd include her in any process to help her through it. Otherwise, she will consider your behavior a betrayal and quite frankly, I wouldn't blame her.


There is a difference between, 'you're driving me insane, I'm going to spank you' and threatening to chop up your kid. I'd rather over react then under react especially with pregnancy hormones in play.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trenton

golfergirl said:


> There is a difference between, 'you're driving me insane, I'm going to spank you' and threatening to chop up your kid. I'd rather over react then under react especially with pregnancy hormones in play.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Without even asking any questions or gaining any insights, eh?

That's just plain dumb and will create a lot of unnecessary upset.

Providing support and guidance to a woman who is struggling with motherhood is far better for the children and the woman than treating her like a destined criminal is. It's very possible she does need help, if she gets the right kind of understanding and caring help she will fully recover and everyone (including society) benefits.

I've never said anything like that to my children. I can't imagine hearing the words coming out of my mouth and how badly I would feel afterwards or how stressed out and feeling out of control I'd have to be to say it to begin with. It prompts a sense of deep compassion inside me towards the Mom here. Get the Mom what she needs and both the child and the Mom benefit tenfold. Do this with compassion and understanding and their marriage will grow tremendously. Doing it because he feels he does too much and she doesn't add up or he wants to gain custody of his kids through divorce, is more sickening to me than the words she said.

Tool is more concerned about himself and how this all makes him feel than he is about his wife who is obviously in crisis.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I don't watch Opera but I had a lot of experience with a child. You don't have to actually kill a child to do damage. Having an out of control temper and periodically throwing things around the child or at the child is more than enough. Would you go to work if your boss did that? Would you keep a friend if he or she did that to you? A child does not have a choice. This is probably why biology dictates the need for two parents. To improve survival. That's a stretch, but really...nobody is saying oooooooh I watched Oprah and this is what happened. Some people are thinking, wow, if that casserole dish hadn't missed me I might have ended up dead. Or gee, dad went off the deep end and held us at bay in the house with a gun and the police came and had to talk him down and then he went to live somewhere else for a while and Christmas kind of s*cked and mom made us lie to the neighbors and tell them he was on a business trip. (And that s*cked too.) Oprah doesn't even come close. She tries, because her childhood was pretty bad...but some people speak from childhood experience on what it's like because they actually remember the thoughts in their heads at the time of the 'non-physical' 'harmless' abuse that wasn't killing.

It's serious. Serious requires action.


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## Trenton

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I don't watch Opera but I had a lot of experience with a child. You don't have to actually kill a child to do damage. Having an out of control temper and periodically throwing things around the child or at the child is more than enough. Would you go to work if your boss did that? Would you keep a friend if he or she did that to you? A child does not have a choice. This is probably why biology dictates the need for two parents. To improve survival. That's a stretch, but really...nobody is saying oooooooh I watched Oprah and this is what happened. Some people are thinking, wow, if that casserole dish hadn't missed me I might have ended up dead. Or gee, dad went off the deep end and held us at bay in the house with a gun and the police came and had to talk him down and then he went to live somewhere else for a while and Christmas kind of s*cked and mom made us lie to the neighbors and tell them he was on a business trip. (And that s*cked too.) Oprah doesn't even come close. She tries, because her childhood was pretty bad...but some people speak from childhood experience on what it's like because they actually remember the thoughts in their heads at the time of the 'non-physical' 'harmless' abuse that wasn't killing.
> 
> It's serious. Serious requires action.


I saw the Oprah episode a long time ago and remember it was a show on postpartum depression. Since Oprah has never had children I doubt she understands very much but don't see how that applies. On the show they covered a woman who suffered postpartum depression and sawed off her baby's arms and legs with a butter knife. It was gruesome and truly horrible.

I don't want to get in a debate about child abuse, I really don't. We all have our woes and perspectives shaped via those woes. This husband has heard this woman say one shocking thing and it can't be her normal behavior because it shocked him. So I think we need to shut off the alarm bells here for a moment and consider the big picture for the sake of the entire family.

Listen, when you come to serious conclusions without actual information you can give out advice that may not apply and very well might hurt a family and in this case a woman who may or may not have suffered a weak moment in an unsupporting household or be a devious murderer with constant thoughts of slaying her two children that are alive and the one that's on the way or an over stressed mother who needs help and support to make it through this next pregnancy and with feeling more comfortable in her skin. We are as responsible for our advice as she is for her words.


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## MGirl

Trenton said:


> Listen, when you come to serious conclusions without actual information you can give out advice that may not apply and very well might hurt a family and in this case *a woman who may or may not have suffered a weak moment in an unsupporting household or be a devious murderer with constant thoughts of slaying her two children that are alive and the one that's on the way or* *an over stressed mother who needs help and support to make it through this next pregnancy and with feeling more comfortable in her skin.* We are as responsible for our advice as she is for her words.


I agree with you here. Definitely. She's in over her head. That much is obvious. How far in over her head, none of us know.

The information Tool originally gave was that his wife has been verbally abusive with him for quite some time, but she's now taking it out on the kids as well and she's adding physical abuse to the mix(with him). She is escalating. That is cause for concern. I still don't think her comment should be dismissed so easily. She's in a pretty bad place, IMO, if something like that came out of her mouth. And TO the child, of all people!

Yes, I believe him sitting down with her and talking about what going on is the best first step. Maybe she'll open up, maybe she won't. Maybe Tool isn't being sympathetic enough. Maybe she doesn't feel like he's listening to her. If she's willing to talk and he's willing to listen, they can work through this together, with some professional help. Either way, the verbal abuse of the children and the terrorization has to stop. And she does need help. But you are right, Trenton. She also deserves and needs compassion.


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## the guy

Compasion spashen, this women is nuts and I'd be tape recording everything. If tool isn't careful he'll be in hand cuffs on some truimpt up charge his nutty wife invented.
Secondly, place some hidden cameras around the house, god only knows what she's doing to the kids when he's not around.


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## golfergirl

MGirl said:


> I agree with you here. Definitely. She's in over her head. That much is obvious. How far in over her head, none of us know.
> 
> The information Tool originally gave was that his wife has been verbally abusive with him for quite some time, but she's now taking it out on the kids as well and she's adding physical abuse to the mix(with him). She is escalating. That is cause for concern. I still don't think her comment should be dismissed so easily. She's in a pretty bad place, IMO, if something like that came out of her mouth. And TO the child, of all people!
> 
> Yes, I believe him sitting down with her and talking about what going on is the best first step. Maybe she'll open up, maybe she won't. Maybe Tool isn't being sympathetic enough. Maybe she doesn't feel like he's listening to her. If she's willing to talk and he's willing to listen, they can work through this together, with some professional help. Either way, the verbal abuse of the children and the terrorization has to stop. And she does need help. But you are right, Trenton. She also deserves and needs compassion.


If a father did those things, what would the consensus be? Act first and protect those kids, ask questions later. As women, we almost can't fathom saying something like that or doing something like that to our children. I think that's why people feel compassion for her where they would be alarmed if it was a man. Homemaker lived at hands of an abusive mother - she can see it. I can't, but I don't want to be wrong. I'm not saying lynch her. I'm saying get her help but don't trust her alone around your kids until she is assessed. How would we feel if she was the next lady on the news that drowned her child. Compassion? Sure but don't take a wait and see, get her assessed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MGirl

golfergirl said:


> I'm saying get her help but don't trust her alone around your kids until she is assessed. How would we feel if she was the next lady on the news that drowned her child. Compassion? Sure but don't take a wait and see, get her assessed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's what I meant, golfergirl. I didn't say it clear enough. Compassion as in talking to her first about going to get assessed, etc. Maybe not going behind her back, but involving her in the process, if she decides to be compliant. If not...well, that's her choice and compassion goes out the window in that case. But no, I would not trust her alone around the children. That's a given, IMO. I was never implying that action not be taken, but rather that it could be done in a way that will make her feel that someone is looking out for her and the kids. 

Seriously, if he goes up to her and says, "I'm taking the kids away for a few days and I'm calling the police to come pick you up," she'd be very unlikely to cooperate. If he sits down with her, tells her he is very concerned about her, that he's seen her become increasingly stressed and angry, that he can tell she's having a really hard time right now, that he's worried about her behavior with the children, and he wants to help her get some help for herself so he can ensure she and the children are safe, she will be much more likely to listen and work with him. And if she doesn't respond that, then he will have to go against her will to make sure she gets help. Make sense? I'm not trying to downplay the situation.


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## Trenton

MGirl said:


> I agree with you here. Definitely. She's in over her head. That much is obvious. How far in over her head, none of us know.
> 
> The information Tool originally gave was that his wife has been verbally abusive with him for quite some time, but she's now taking it out on the kids as well and she's adding physical abuse to the mix(with him). She is escalating. That is cause for concern. I still don't think her comment should be dismissed so easily. She's in a pretty bad place, IMO, if something like that came out of her mouth. And TO the child, of all people!
> 
> Yes, I believe him sitting down with her and talking about what going on is the best first step. Maybe she'll open up, maybe she won't. Maybe Tool isn't being sympathetic enough. Maybe she doesn't feel like he's listening to her. If she's willing to talk and he's willing to listen, they can work through this together, with some professional help. Either way, the verbal abuse of the children and the terrorization has to stop. And she does need help. But you are right, Trenton. She also deserves and needs compassion.


I think we generally agree. I don't see Tool as being innocent in all of this; however. From reading some of his other posts it seems like he's knee deep in self pity and deflection of blame.

She does need help. Doing it compassionately and inclusively is key. If she feels supported and able to recover it is better than if she feels betrayed and cornered for obvious reasons.

I don't think it's fair to decide she is nuts and likely to have her husband ushered out in handcuffs because of her behavior. I think it's nuts to think that this would be the case.


----------



## alg1208

There's one big thing that nobody has seemed to mention yet. 

If your wife loses it one day and (god forbid) really does do something to hurt your child (or worse)...there's a very good chance you could end up in trouble for neglecting to do anything about it. There are plenty of signs of a nasty future ahead...I don't even know you and it scares the piss out of me for your sake. 

Honestly...things like that should be reported to the correct authorities...not just for your childrens sake but for your own as well.

Based on the other things you've said...she always says you're ruining her life, etc...it sounds to me like she has serious mental issues. Somehow I doubt its the kind of mental issues a once a week therapy visit is going to solve. My recommendation is to get you and your children the hell out of there...at the least until she has gotten treatment. Serious treatment. And you've spoken with the people in charge of her treatment.


----------



## MGirl

Trenton said:


> She does need help. Doing it compassionately and inclusively is key. If she feels supported and able to recover it is better than if she feels betrayed and cornered for obvious reasons.


This is what I was trying to get at, in...a lot more words  You said it simply.


----------



## Trenton

golfergirl said:


> If a father did those things, what would the consensus be? Act first and protect those kids, ask questions later. As women, we almost can't fathom saying something like that or doing something like that to our children. I think that's why people feel compassion for her where they would be alarmed if it was a man. Homemaker lived at hands of an abusive mother - she can see it. I can't, but I don't want to be wrong. I'm not saying lynch her. I'm saying get her help but don't trust her alone around your kids until she is assessed. How would we feel if she was the next lady on the news that drowned her child. Compassion? Sure but don't take a wait and see, get her assessed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Funny thing is men aren't likely to remove their wives from the situation because they rely upon them to take the slack in childcare.

I don't think I would compare a man's behavior to a woman's behavior who was pregnant because hormones (and obviously very different ones) come into play. It really is comparing apples to carrots rather than oranges in that what is normally different is actually vastly different for those 9 months and the months following birth as well. 

So, remember, she is pregnant. It's pretty hard to remove her from herself. If you want to care about the unborn child it's in the best interest for everyone involved that she receive fair, reasonable and compassionate care. She can thank her femininity after the fact for this. No woman, overburdened by children and pregnancy should be ostracized for the difficulties she faces. It's just me but I think if you want better kids, you darn well need better support systems and information made available for Moms, especially when you consider how many single parent (female led) families there are out there.


----------



## Trenton

alg1208 said:


> There's one big thing that nobody has seemed to mention yet.
> 
> If your wife loses it one day and (god forbid) really does do something to hurt your child (or worse)...there's a very good chance you could end up in trouble for neglecting to do anything about it. There are plenty of signs of a nasty future ahead...I don't even know you and it scares the piss out of me for your sake.
> 
> Honestly...things like that should be reported to the correct authorities...not just for your childrens sake but for your own as well.
> 
> Based on the other things you've said...she always says you're ruining her life, etc...it sounds to me like she has serious mental issues. Somehow I doubt its the kind of mental issues a once a week therapy visit is going to solve. My recommendation is to get you and your children the hell out of there...at the least until she has gotten treatment. Serious treatment. And you've spoken with the people in charge of her treatment.


Yeah that would be great for the unborn child. The stress of losing her entire family won't take a toll on her mental health and/or body.

Where's Tool's responsibility in all this? He marries a crazy biatch but doesn't realize it until baby number three is on the way? Did you ever think maybe she really does feel her life is ruined and she is depressed? Tool is taking no action, providing no support and ruminating in his own needs and feelings, exasperating her feelings while ignoring their legitimacy.

The possibilities are endless but one thing is always clear. You provide support and help and it's consistent and leaves out words like "insanity", "killer" and "biatch" and the room for healing is far better. Dismissing her and taking off because of her harsh words and calling her crazy is more likely to make her behave crazy.


----------



## alg1208

Trenton said:


> So, remember, she is pregnant. It's pretty hard to remove her from herself. If you want to care about the unborn child it's in the best interest for everyone involved that she receive fair, reasonable and compassionate care. She can thank her femininity after the fact for this. No woman, overburdened by children and pregnancy should be ostracized for the difficulties she faces. It's just me but I think if you want better kids, you darn well need better support systems and information made available for Moms, especially when you consider how many single parent (female led) families there are out there.


There's a huge difference between the things normal pregnancy hormones make you say and do and the things his wife said. Telling a child that they are the reason parents cut them up and kill them is something that should never come out of anyones mouth. Period. 

Being irritable or a little out of control of your emotions during a pregnancy are perfectly understandable...being threatening and just flat out scary are not.


----------



## alg1208

Trenton said:


> Yeah that would be great for the unborn child. The stress of losing her entire family won't take a toll on her mental health and/or body.
> 
> Where's Tool's responsibility in all this? He marries a crazy biatch but doesn't realize it until baby number three is on the way? Did you ever think maybe she really does feel her life is ruined and she is depressed? Tool is taking no action, providing no support and ruminating in his own needs and feelings, exasperating her feelings while ignoring their legitimacy.
> 
> The possibilities are endless but one thing is always clear. You provide support and help and it's consistent and leaves out words like "insanity", "killer" and "biatch" and the room for healing is far better. Dismissing her and taking off because of her harsh words and calling her crazy is more likely to make her behave crazy.


His responsibility? You're going to blame him for marrying someone who's crazy? For all you know maybe this is fairly new. And regardless its still not acceptable. The fact that you defend this women who practically threatened to cut up her children is ridiculous.


----------



## the guy

IMO all the lovey dovey compassion won't get this women in for help.
Yes after she comes to the realization that she does need help then yes compassion is diserved, but until she gets a hard slap of reality that she is being abusive and can admit to her self that she needs help, well then get the proof that she needs so she can see for her self how she is behaving, then maybe she can take the step. If she doesn't take the step after seeing it with her own eyes and ears, then take the proof to the proper authority.

Is it just me or are spy cams the next best thing since slice bread!


----------



## Trenton

alg1208 said:


> His responsibility? You're going to blame him for marrying someone who's crazy? For all you know maybe this is fairly new. And regardless its still not acceptable. The fact that you defend this women who practically threatened to cut up her children is ridiculous.


Typical defense but unhelpful none the less.

I don't believe that she has been mean or cruel the entire time according to Tool's own accounts. In fact, when he changed his behavior her responses to him immediately changed for the better up until this last pregnancy. He hasn't answered my other questions so I'm going on very limited information. So are you.

I think generally the problems are between the two of them and she had a moment of complete frustration and let something slip which could possibly be due to outside stress or her hormones. Statistics and logical reasoning make this far more likely than the alternative or any of the other scenarios brought forward.


----------



## alg1208

> I don't believe that she has been mean or cruel the entire time according to Tool's own accounts


Yep...because every psychotic person who's ever lived acted that way at all times...totally forgot about that. Thanks!


----------



## Trenton

the guy said:


> IMO all the lovey dovey compassion won't get this women in for help.
> Yes after she comes to the realization that she does need help then yes compassion is diserved, but until she gets a hard slap of reality that she is being abusive and can admit to her self that she needs help, well then get the proof that she needs so she can see for her self how she is behaving, then maybe she can take the step. If she doesn't take the step after seeing it with her own eyes and ears, then take the proof to the proper authority.
> 
> Is it just me or are spy cams the next best thing since slice bread!


If she were reported to child services for one incident of saying something grotesque the consequences would befall the entire family and would be longstanding or the response would be to put her in counseling with random (and often non-existent) CPS checks. If they believe she didn't intend it and is not a threat to her kids she will only be visited once and get a follow up letter saying they are not going to continue with the case and wish her well. 

Don't kid yourself. There is no peachy, happy go lucky answer unless she gets help in a way that is best for her. If it is ruled that she is sane then they won't be able to make her do anything and if she is made to feel cornered she is less likely to be willing to do anything.

Another fact, CPS was involved in MANY families that end up actually murdering their children. Adults just like you and I lived next door and may or may not have known about it and did nothing. More facts, if children are removed they have a 63% chance of exposure to other abuses (physical, sexual and/or emotional) at the hands of their new carers.


----------



## Trenton

alg1208 said:


> Yep...because every psychotic person who's ever lived acted that way at all times...totally forgot about that. Thanks!


Your welcome. Anytime.


----------



## BeetleBug

Trenton said:


> If she were reported to child services for one incident of saying something grotesque the consequences would befall the entire family and would be longstanding or the response would be to put her in counseling with random (and often non-existent) CPS checks. If they believe she didn't intend it and is not a threat to her kids she will only be visited once and get a follow up letter saying they are not going to continue with the case and wish her well.
> 
> Don't kid yourself. There is no peachy, happy go lucky answer unless she gets help in a way that is best for her. If it is ruled that she is sane then they won't be able to make her do anything and if she is made to feel cornered she is less likely to be willing to do anything.
> 
> Another fact, CPS was involved in MANY families that end up actually murdering their children. Adults just like you and I lived next door and may or may not have known about it and did nothing. More facts, if children are removed they have a 63% chance of exposure to other abuses (physical, sexual and/or emotional) at the hands of their new carers.


And that is my fear leaving my children's abusive father. Not enough stern action from CPS leaves one more vulnerable than just remaining in situation and monitoring instead of splitting and have kids spend unlimited alone time with the nut.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trenton

BeetleBug said:


> And that is my fear leaving my children's abusive father. Not enough stern action from CPS leaves one more vulnerable than just remaining in situation and monitoring instead of splitting and have kids spend unlimited alone time with the nut.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know. There's absolutely a need for reform and more support for all parents, etc. I really want to work to change this. I think our kids should be our number one priority but often times that means helping out some struggling parents and setting clearer boundaries for what is and is not acceptable behavior but it is a fine line because the truth of the matter is for all the parents here offering advice, how many would take in kids who were raised in abusive homes? There aren't enough good, stable carers either. We want to complain and offer our shocked and upset emotion but do nothing to fix the issues besides become hypercritical.


----------



## CH

During our last fight she had thrown objects at me and said she wishes she could kill me and told me to get out.
RED FLAG #1

Then this morning, she got very angry at our youngest and she yelled cussing him out (his is 3) and said he was the reason Mom's cut off their kids body parts and kill them.
RED FLAG #2

I would be scared to death going to bed next to this woman, I have no idea if I'm gonna wake up the next morning or not, and I WOULD NOT LEAVE HER ALONE WITH THE KIDS EVER!!!!!

After she said that, I would have hired armed guards to watch my kids if she was ever alone with them, just in case. NO PARENT SHOULD NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER SAY THAT TO A CHILD, LET ALONE A 3 YEAR OLD.

I'M SO MAD, I COULD LITERALLY COME THROUGH THE COMPUTER AND........


----------



## AFEH

^ A person has to think evil before they do evil. Has to think wicked thoughts before they become a wicked person. Tool’s W has actually expressed her wicked and evil thoughts, which in and of itself are beyond belief. Her next step is to actually carry out her thoughts.

Patience and tolerance is not the way ahead when a 3 year child is involved. Abusers just increase their abuse when the abuse is tolerated. Intolerance is required by way of massively firm boundaries around the child protect him. To put him in a place of security from his mother.

And then to get his mother assessed to see if the mental illness she has is a passing phase or an entrenched personality disorder. To ignore these signs is to abdicate all responsibility for the safety and security of the child as though the child were abandoned.


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## morituri

Tool, you still here? Do you have an update?


----------



## turnera

alg1208 said:


> Seriously? If my wife ever said that to my son that would be the end of our marriage. Period. If someone wants to say messed up things to me I can deal with it. But I draw the line with my kid. Run. Run far away and never look back. She's freaking psychotic.


 I agree. If my husband said that to my child, he would never see her again. 

PLEASE get that child to a psychologist, at least for a checkup.

I have a friend whose mom told her - as a joke - that if she wasn't good, she was going to take her back to the store and get a new kid to replace her. She was about 5. She has spent the last 50 years wrapped up in knots over that one SINGLE SENTENCE. It became her, her whole being: don't screw up or you'll get replaced. 

As for being verbally abusive, I'm sure you know by now that the instant it starts, you HAVE to remove the kids from her presence. The INSTANT. That is your boundary: Raise your voice to our children and I will remove them from the room/house/city until you can calm down and speak responsibly.


----------



## turnera

Tool said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone.
> 
> If I do decide to get up and go, this is gonna be tricky. I really need to take a very strategic approach, cuzz being a Man I might end up losing the kids in a child custody battle.
> 
> Which I think defeats the purpose of leaving in the first place.
> 
> My word vs hers kind of thing. This is something she even brought up when I told her she will lose to kids talking like this.
> 
> She said "Your gonna have to prove it"
> 
> This whole thing is just absolutely ridiculous. We would have a great life if she wouldn't do this bull crap.
> 
> Everything is just perfect. This whole thing is not logical at all.
> 
> Everything I worked so hard to build will just get wrecked and ill have to start over.


Install a video camera in the room that she usually pulls the crap, and carry a voice-activated recorder with you at all times. Inform your doctor NOW that this is happening, at a visit, so it's recorded somewhere about your concerns.


----------



## turnera

I do have a question, Tool. You said 'after your last fight'...

Why are you fighting? Are you participating? Are you initiating? A fight isn't a fight if only one person participates. What are you doing to learn how to stop these fights?


----------



## Trenton

Exactly. Ask questions. You have someone feel entitled to punishment and we don't even know what really is going on or why. I already stated that if you read Tool's other post on a different thread (forget the title and not willing to look it up but feel free to), it's apparent he's knee deep in self pity and frustration of his own.

I don't see the vocalization of one dark thought aimed at a child coupled with escalating arguments with a spouse as a precursor to doom and murder without more information to see it as that is really ignorant. It is a symptom of frustration and stress.

Over reaction, now that's something all human beings are fond of. It makes for such beautiful drama for them to rubberneck and point at. Even better if we catch it on camera! That is grotesque.

I just keep posting because I'm ashamed for all those who keep pushing this with no further information from Tool.


----------



## Trenton

turnera said:


> I agree. If my husband said that to my child, he would never see her again.
> 
> PLEASE get that child to a psychologist, at least for a checkup.
> 
> I have a friend whose mom told her - as a joke - that if she wasn't good, she was going to take her back to the store and get a new kid to replace her. She was about 5. She has spent the last 50 years wrapped up in knots over that one SINGLE SENTENCE. It became her, her whole being: don't screw up or you'll get replaced.
> 
> As for being verbally abusive, I'm sure you know by now that the instant it starts, you HAVE to remove the kids from her presence. The INSTANT. That is your boundary: Raise your voice to our children and I will remove them from the room/house/city until you can calm down and speak responsibly.


Seriously? If that is honestly the only sentence that caused your friend such emotional distress for fifty years...there's something wrong with the woman, not the mother. How can you focus on one thought as the be all, end all of your life and over ride all the positives that forward thinking, understanding in our mental human arsenal provide and instead choose to stay put on one thought and believe it your entire life? 

It's entitlement, a lack of mental capacity or inability to adapt (or all three). Tell her to get a life and stop blaming her parents 50 years after the fact for her pain.


----------



## magnoliagal

turnera said:


> I agree. If my husband said that to my child, he would never see her again.


Even if were because he were ill? I don't think Tool's wife can help it. No I'm not saying its okay I'm not. She needs help not to have her kids taken away.


----------



## magnoliagal

Trenton said:


> Seriously? If that is honestly the only sentence that caused your friend such emotional distress for fifty years...there's something wrong with the woman, not the mother. How can you focus on one thought as the be all, end all of your life and over ride all the positives that forward thinking, understanding in our mental human arsenal provide and instead choose to stay put on one thought and believe it your entire life?
> 
> It's entitlement, a lack of mental capacity or inability to adapt (or all three). Tell her to get a life and stop blaming her parents 50 years after the fact for her pain.


My guess is it was more than just that one sentence. That mom's "jokes" weren't very funny but she probably did it a lot thinking they were.

My dad was an abuser disquised under "joking". He'd say something cruel then laugh when I got upset saying "it was just a joke...lighten up". Or better yet he did it on purpose to "toughen me up". Oh yeah that worked real well. I'm just now getting over my fear of intimacy. lol thanks dad.


----------



## AFEH

Trenton said:


> Tell her to get a life and stop blaming her parents 50 years after the fact for her pain.


Yes. She should forgive her abusers their abuse. It really is the best way forward.


----------



## turnera

Trenton said:


> Seriously? If that is honestly the only sentence that caused your friend such emotional distress for fifty years...there's something wrong with the woman, not the mother. How can you focus on one thought as the be all, end all of your life and over ride all the positives that forward thinking, understanding in our mental human arsenal provide and instead choose to stay put on one thought and believe it your entire life?
> 
> It's entitlement, a lack of mental capacity or inability to adapt (or all three). Tell her to get a life and stop blaming her parents 50 years after the fact for her pain.


Wow. Good for you. Glad you're so together. Glad you were so together as a child that you could listen to your parent tell you they were going to give you away and you were mature enough to reason it out. You must be amazingly brilliant.


----------



## turnera

magnoliagal said:


> Even if were because he were ill? I don't think Tool's wife can help it. No I'm not saying its okay I'm not. She needs help not to have her kids taken away.


 I guess the real question is, is she mentally ill, or is she an abuser? It sounds to me like she has always been this way.


----------



## turnera

Trenton said:


> Seriously? If that is honestly the only sentence that caused your friend such emotional distress for fifty years...there's something wrong with the woman, not the mother. How can you focus on one thought as the be all, end all of your life and over ride all the positives that forward thinking, understanding in our mental human arsenal provide and instead choose to stay put on one thought and believe it your entire life?
> 
> It's entitlement, a lack of mental capacity or inability to adapt (or all three). Tell her to get a life and stop blaming her parents 50 years after the fact for her pain.


Just so you'll get the full picture, Trenton, her parents couldn't have kids, so they adopted a boy; and then, of course, they got pregnant. Turns out the boy was psychotic, in and out of mental hospitals during my friend's entire childhood. It was a situation in which she simply wasn't allowed to speak up, her parents were so consumed with her brother. But of all the trauma she endured, the one thing she remembered was wanting her mom to love her, yet fearing that if she was anything but a perfect little doll (which she STILL is), she would be abandoned; after all, that's what her mom told her.


----------



## magnoliagal

turnera said:


> I guess the real question is, is she mentally ill, or is she an abuser? It sounds to me like she has always been this way.


It's so hard to tell. Many people that were abused grow up to abuse others. Or it could be a mental issue like PPD. This stuff is so complicated.


----------



## turnera

AFEH said:


> Yes. She should forgive her abusers their abuse. It really is the best way forward.


Um, I can't tell if you're serious or tongue in cheek. fwiw, she adores her mom, she worshipped her dad, she never moved away from home except for college, her every day is wrapped up in caring for her 90-year-old mom, so it has never even occurred to her to be upset with her mom. It's I who have a problem with their situation.


----------



## Trenton

turnera said:


> Just so you'll get the full picture, Trenton, her parents couldn't have kids, so they adopted a boy; and then, of course, they got pregnant. Turns out the boy was psychotic, in and out of mental hospitals during my friend's entire childhood. It was a situation in which she simply wasn't allowed to speak up, her parents were so consumed with her brother. But of all the trauma she endured, the one thing she remembered was wanting her mom to love her, yet fearing that if she was anything but a perfect little doll (which she STILL is), she would be abandoned; after all, that's what her mom told her.


OK, but that's not the same as her being told one thing, one time and having to still face that 50 years later is it? That's dealing with a lifetime of emotional trauma and reinforced negative beliefs due to a family in constant crisis. You made it sound as if one phrase said in the heat of the moment could equal a lifetime of emotional stress and trauma to a child and I don't believe that. There is a tremendous difference and I understand your friend, many of us do. Childhood is not always peaches and butterflies. I'm sorry for what she has to go through as a result and hope she eventually does find the help she needs to accept herself and know that her wants and desires do indeed count.

In regards to the woman here, Tool has only heard this one vile thing said to his children, his entire time with his wife and during a time when it's clear to him she's frustrated and struggling. I think to say she needs to be reported to authorities given the little information we have is ridiculous. Especially if you're not considering what the ramifications of that would be. She needs family/friend support and counseling to work through whatever it is she is going through (perhaps she does need more), but with the information we're getting that's what is called for right now.


----------



## Trenton

turnera said:


> Wow. Good for you. Glad you're so together. Glad you were so together as a child that you could listen to your parent tell you they were going to give you away and you were mature enough to reason it out. You must be amazingly brilliant.


I'm not at all together, very emotional person I am, and right now going through a very difficult period in my life although I'm sure there will be many more. Brilliant, not so much, but I'm OK with that. 

In being human by default we all have issues hence my desire to use empathy rather than harsh and unfair judgement to reach conclusions.


----------



## morituri

So Trenton, what *verifiable steps* - no generalities please - would you suggest that Tool take to protect their child and prevent getting blamed by the authorities if his wife does harm their child?


----------



## Trenton

morituri said:


> So Trenton, what *verifiable steps* - no generalities please - would you suggest that Tool take to protect their child and prevent getting blamed by the authorities if his wife does harm their child?


He needs to sit down with his wife and have a discussion with her that is all about her and does not include his own feelings of being targeted by her because she is angry or feeling as if he's not being appreciated. That's the space he's coming from right now and it won't help his kids.

When he talks with her he has to make it clear that he's actually worried about her. Wants to understand why she's so upset and frustrated lately. He should ask for particulars. The entire time it is crucial he doesn't turn the conversation around to him. 

Something like:

"I really need to talk with you because, honestly, I've noticed you are frustrated a lot lately. I want to help but I feel like all I do is make it worse. I don't think I've been appreciating all the stress you're under or how hard it is to be pregnant, have two little kids and work full time. What can I do to make it better? Do you think talking to someone besides me would help? We need to get you feeling good again for the sake of you, the kids and the family. It worries me that you said <fill in blank with death threat to 3 year old> because I don't want our child to think that you think that and I'm not sure what's wrong with your for you to say that. You normally would never say that to our kids. I'm sorry things are so rough right now, I want to help. I know you think I'm always a part of the problem so please let me be part of the solution here."

If she won't respond to Tool at all then he should talk to her parents or a friend that she trusts and instead of him doing, have the friend or parent do it. 

He could also write a letter so that she doesn't respond to cues Tool might give away without knowing it and can read all of his words.

On top of this he can begin to take on a bigger role in regards to caring for the kids, giving her breaks without her even knowing he's providing protection. She already works and so does he so I'm not sure how often his wife is actually alone with the kids. Overall, he needs to better assess the threat and find out if this hormones, stress or general personality.

Without Tool's input and help it's pretty hard to know the best way to help her.

If it's hormonal then she really does need to see a doctor and be closely monitored and she should be directly warned about the threats of PPD as well as reassured that it's not her fault, it's her body out of whack and they can fix it. Family support is crucial for the recovery of PPD.

If it's stress magnifying her personality and causing her to over react, then she needs help with stress management and someone to talk to. Simple fix with compassion and understanding for her difficult time right now. If Tool's priority and concern are the safety of his children, it's in his best interest to address it without making it about him.

If it's a psychotic break and she's really thinking about harming her children with verbalizing it being the first step, then the best bet is to intervene but this is statistically very unlikely and if the one episode is all Tool's witnessed or seen coupled with a regression back to aggressive behaviors aimed at him, it's even less likely. Speak to other family members (such as her parents/friends or his parents/friends or both and her doctor) and voice his fears. They can come up with an intervention where they all sit down and discuss it.

The way Tool approaches her and how he responds will definitely play a big part in how the drama unravels. He knows this from experience with his wife, so he has to take that into account.

If you read up on babies who were murdered in their homes in the most grotesque way by their Moms, the signs and symptoms were there and tend to mirror depression and weird behaviors. Most cases of child infanticide are directly related to PPD and a complete change in normal behavior. There is help for it, getting Tool's wife to seek help is the most important thing if she is having strange thoughts and behaviors. Otherwise, he does need to monitor her behavior and if he sees continued strange outbursts or behaviors he may need to intervene and go directly to a doctor about his concerns as well as not leave the children in her care alone at all.

In his case I honestly think his wife has an intense personality that is being magnified by her current life stressors but it could be the beginning of something else too.


----------



## Tool

Alright so iv been trying to feel things out. She seemed to have calmed down.

Then tonight she is looking thru our finances and she notices that I spent withdrew money without telling her. Yeah I did

She goes crazy yelling at me, but I stand my ground tell her to stop yelling or im not going to continue the convo. She starts calling me names, says I have to sleep on the couch. I say that aint gonna happen.

Then she storms out of the room and says I WANT TO KILL YOU.

Then she left the house, I have no clue where she is right now.


----------



## turnera

Call the police and let them handle her.


----------



## Tool

The thought crossed my mind, then she came home. I asked her if she is feeling better, and she said im not talking to you.

Then she went off to a neighbors house.


----------



## turnera

Let her. Time to show her you're not her b*tch. If she's gonna treat you like dirt, respond in kind.


----------



## magnoliagal

My heart goes out to her (and you). There is really something wrong. She needs help. Bad.


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## morituri

Ok Trenton, Tool is back with an update and another threatening outburst dealing with killing a loved one. What now?


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## Trenton

Give me a break Tool. Follow some of my advice and see if she changes her behavior. You and I both know that your wife doesn't actually want to kill you. We also know you don't really want help. You want to rant about your big, bad wife and hear advice that justifies how you feel and takes all blame away from you. Cop Out.


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## AFEH

Of course she wants to kill him and she wants to maim/kill her child. It may well be all “in the heat of the moment” stuff. Plus she may well not carry out her threats. But they are threats and she wants to do those things, that’s the only reason she’s thinking and saying them.

A person who doesn’t want to do those type of things never thinks them, never speaks them and never does them.

The thought comes first, then the actions. Without the thoughts, there are no actions.

Believe me I have an experience in these things that I wish I didn’t have.


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## morituri

Tool,

Have you tried any of Trenton's suggestions regarding getting help for your wife?


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## golfergirl

morituri said:


> If the genders were reversed would you make the same comment? Please just a yes or no answer will suffice, not a lengthy diatribe.


I have to say I agree with majority. Bad H, hormonal, overwhelmed, misunderstood - this woman needs to be held accountable for her comments which God forbid turn into her actions! I've slept 6 hours in past 2 nights - beyond sleep deprived, and still hormonal from 3 pregnancies in relatively short time. I'm dealing with an unsupportive husband who's dumped a new puppy on my lap and two regular
(stressful teens). When my baby wakes up screaming just 2 hours after the last time I put him down, the worse it gets is, 'sh sh little goosey'. 
Fear holds many people back. My H is abusive (verbally). He's had a bad childhood. He is the way he is because of his upbringing. I can't fear I'm doing wrong by calling him on behaviour. If I ***** foot around him and try to softly 'help' him, I might as well talk to the coffee table. These people are angry and justified and the whole nine yards. Before she crumples at his feet in defeat and let's her angry guard down that much, she's got a long way to go. The way she's expressing herself is frightening whether she means it or not. If she gets held accountable and her family taken away, it's due to her statements. SHE caused it because she's responsible for HER. If the sympathy route is taken and she falls apart and acts on her rage, the ones who pay are the INNOCENT ones, the babies. Kind of a no brainer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trenton

golfergirl said:


> I have to say I agree with majority. Bad H, hormonal, overwhelmed, misunderstood - this woman needs to be held accountable for her comments which God forbid turn into her actions! I've slept 6 hours in past 2 nights - beyond sleep deprived, and still hormonal from 3 pregnancies in relatively short time. I'm dealing with an unsupportive husband who's dumped a new puppy on my lap and two regular
> (stressful teens). When my baby wakes up screaming just 2 hours after the last time I put him down, the worse it gets is, 'sh sh little goosey'.
> Fear holds many people back. My H is abusive (verbally). He's had a bad childhood. He is the way he is because of his upbringing. I can't fear I'm doing wrong by calling him on behaviour. If I ***** foot around him and try to softly 'help' him, I might as well talk to the coffee table. These people are angry and justified and the whole nine yards. Before she crumples at his feet in defeat and let's her angry guard down that much, she's got a long way to go. The way she's expressing herself is frightening whether she means it or not. If she gets held accountable and her family taken away, it's due to her statements. SHE caused it because she's responsible for HER. If the sympathy route is taken and she falls apart and acts on her rage, the ones who pay are the INNOCENT ones, the babies. Kind of a no brainer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why have you not held your husband accountable and had his family taken away if he is verbally abusive as is suggested here? Also, let's not forget that she is pregnant so there is one part of the family that can't be taken away yet and that needs caring for.

I think making harsh judgments on one sided discussions where the OP doesn't answer any follow up questions is short sighted. The way she is expressing herself is frightening and I think it is an indication she needs help. It's a shame that Tool only wants to rag on her and feel for himself rather than help a woman he married that is carrying his child.


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## golfergirl

Trenton said:


> Why have you not held your husband accountable and had his family taken away if he is verbally abusive as is suggested here? Also, let's not forget that she is pregnant so there is one part of the family that can't be taken away yet and that needs caring for.
> 
> I think making harsh judgments on one sided discussions where the OP doesn't answer any follow up questions is short sighted. The way she is expressing herself is frightening and I think it is an indication she needs help. It's a shame that Tool only wants to rag on her and feel for himself rather than help a woman he married that is carrying his child.


Because H is in counseling and accountable for his actions. Because I took hard line and did leave environment until he made decision to get help.
Funny, role reversal, without knowing background, you question why I'm there in my situation but defend Tool's wife when she's physically threatening harm. SHE is responsible for HER. It's like saying if wife wasn't so nagging H wouldn't hit. SHE is respobsible for her regardless how Tool is. Last exchange, he sounded pretty decent to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MGirl

AFEH said:


> A person who doesn’t want to do those type of things never thinks them, never speaks them and never does them.


:iagree:


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## Trenton

golfergirl said:


> Because H is in counseling and accountable for his actions. Because I took hard line and did leave environment until he made decision to get help.
> Funny, role reversal, without knowing background, you question why I'm there in my situation but defend Tool's wife when she's physically threatening harm. SHE is responsible for HER. It's like saying if wife wasn't so nagging H wouldn't hit. SHE is respobsible for her regardless how Tool is. Last exchange, he sounded pretty decent to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You actually missed my point entirely. I wasn't judging you, I was calling you out on judging someone else in a way that you would not judge your husband. I don't need to know details in your case because you're not asking for advice.

Do you really feel that calling child protective services because of your husband's verbal abuse and _both _of you facing the consequences would be ideal for anyone in the family? Especially if you haven't tried anything else besides feeling sorry for yourself and anger?

I will always advocate for compassion first. The problem is most people in situations don't offer compassion because they're in the situation. It's hard for them to separate their own feelings from the struggles of their spouses. I know this because I should have more compassion for my own husband (and myself) but I struggle between how deeply his actions/words effect me and my ability to overlook that so as to be compassionate. So I get it's really hard.


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## golfergirl

Trenton said:


> You actually missed my point entirely. I wasn't judging you, I was calling you out on judging someone else in a way that you would not judge your husband. I don't need to know details in your case because you're not asking for advice.
> 
> Do you really feel that calling child protective services because of your husband's verbal abuse and _both _of you facing the consequences would be ideal for anyone in the family? Especially if you haven't tried anything else besides feeling sorry for yourself and anger?
> 
> I will always advocate for compassion first. The problem is most people in situations don't offer compassion because they're in the situation. It's hard for them to separate their own feelings from the struggles of their spouses. I know this because I should have more compassion for my own husband (and myself) but I struggle between how deeply his actions/words effect me and my ability to overlook that so as to be compassionate. So I get it's really hard.


I do get your point, and I appreciate the ability to discuss this with you. I didn't feel attacked but I did want you to know I have lived through something!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH

Tool said:


> Alright so iv been trying to feel things out. She seemed to have calmed down.
> 
> Then tonight she is looking thru our finances and she notices that I spent withdrew money without telling her. Yeah I did
> 
> She goes crazy yelling at me, but I stand my ground tell her to stop yelling or im not going to continue the convo. She starts calling me names, says I have to sleep on the couch. I say that aint gonna happen.
> 
> Then she storms out of the room and says I WANT TO KILL YOU.
> 
> Then she left the house, I have no clue where she is right now.


She sounds “topped out” Tool. Imagine your wife as a drinking glass. With the stresses and strains in her life, her glass is full. Full to the brim. Something happens, sometimes almost any even small thing, and her glass overflows. It’s called “emotional flooding”. When our first born was about 6 months I made what a thought was a humorous comment about my wife’s spaghetti bolognaise. The next thing I knew was the plate had been thrown at me, all down my work suite and on the wall behind me.

Your wife does not have the tools and techniques to start emptying her own glass such that her stress and anxiety is at a manageable level. This is where you as her husband and the father of her children come in. This is your big moment. If you like this is a very big fitness test for you in that “Are you man enough to help your wife out even under the most extreme conditions”.

Your task Tool is to help your wife such that her glass starts to empty. It needs to be just a quarter full, no more than that. You need to see peace and comfort in her face. To do that you ask her how you can help, what you can do and let her be your guide in this a bit. If you have an extended family ask them for help and if you need and have access to social services ask them for help.

Whatever you do, don’t do nothing and don’t do anything to add to her stress and anxiety such that she gets emotionally flooded again.


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## fmrgrlfrnd

Tool said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone.
> 
> If I do decide to get up and go, this is gonna be tricky. I really need to take a very strategic approach, cuzz being a Man I might end up losing the kids in a child custody battle.
> 
> Which I think defeats the purpose of leaving in the first place.
> 
> My word vs hers kind of thing. This is something she even brought up when I told her she will lose to kids talking like this.
> 
> She said "Your gonna have to prove it"
> 
> This whole thing is just absolutely ridiculous. We would have a great life if she wouldn't do this bull crap.
> 
> Everything is just perfect. This whole thing is not logical at all.
> 
> Everything I worked so hard to build will just get wrecked and ill have to start over.


Save your var and take it to court with you...then, you will most likely get the children and if she doesn't want to lose them, she can stay with you...or not.


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## TeaLeaves4

I have to say I agree with most of Trenton's responses. No the OP's wife shouldn't say or do these things but I don't agree that it means she is clinically insane and should lose her kids. She most definitely does, however, need counseling.

What stands out to me as a possible reason for her behavior is when the OP says he finally "regained control". Why does he need all the control? She is entitled (ooohhh I hate that word) to an equal share of power in the marriage. Maybe she is railing against that. 

Another thing that i keep seeing on this site is people saying "take her to her doctor" or "talk to her doctor". In the U.S., a doctor or nurse is not allowed to discuss someone's medical treatment with anyone, even a spouse, without the person's written consent. It's also VERY difficult to get someone "put away" without their consent. And thank God for that, or we would have a lot more disgruntled spouses who play amateur psychiatrist trying to lock up their spouses out of spite or other unsavory reasons. (not relating that comment to the OP, just saying)


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## tacoma

Tool said:


> Then this morning, she got very angry at our youngest and she yelled cussing him out (his is 3) and said he was the reason Mom's cut off their kids body parts and kill them.


Nobody speaks to my kid like that especially her mother.

She`d be out of the house and I would have called DCF for an interview with my kid about what her mother said to her as it would pretty much guarantee me custody to have that documented by a DCF counselor.

That`s a line no one crosses.

I`d start recording every outburst she had for the custody battle that would be coming.


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## Stonewall

Tool said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone.
> 
> If I do decide to get up and go, this is gonna be tricky. I really need to take a very strategic approach, cuzz being a Man I might end up losing the kids in a child custody battle.
> 
> Which I think defeats the purpose of leaving in the first place.
> 
> My word vs hers kind of thing. This is something she even brought up when I told her she will lose to kids talking like this.
> 
> She said "Your gonna have to prove it"
> 
> This whole thing is just absolutely ridiculous. We would have a great life if she wouldn't do this bull crap.
> 
> Everything is just perfect. This whole thing is not logical at all.
> 
> Everything I worked so hard to build will just get wrecked and ill have to start over.



get a VAR and record as much of this insane talk as possible. Anyone who would say those things to a 3 year old has major mental problems. You need to be able to prove the depth of these problems to a judge. Tolerate as much as you can so you can gather the proof you need to get those kids away from her.


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## turnera

I agree.


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