# New here. Intrigued by open marriage/triad



## Thatredhead

We've been married since high school, 20 years this year. I married young to escape a difficult home situation where I was raised in a restrictive religious cult. He was my first sexual experience. I didn't know anything about being a real wife or about real life and hated sex for a long time. After kids that changed. Now I have a sex drive and I'm interested in lots of men and feel cheated out of a fulfilling sex life because I was basically forced into an early marriage. I want everything I missed out on, everything that normal people have before they settle down. BUT...BIG BUT....I love my husband and don't want him to be hurt. We've spoken about this many times and he understands where I'm coming from. However he just can't bring himself to open up the marriage, even though I am more than willing for him to find other partners. I think it would be good for him to have the same experience, as we both missed out. He is completely uninterested. He wishes he could grant me what I want but he says he is worried about pregnancy and disease. I dont really believe that. I think it's male pride or some sort of cultural aversion. 

I know everyone is going to say get a divorce but that's not what either of us wants. At least not yet. We have kids and a home and property and a life. I think it is ridiculous to blow that all up because of sex. There has to be middle ground, some agreement to be reached. I just don't know how to reconcile all of this. 

Anyway, I've been reading here for awhile but haven't seen anything close to my situation.


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## BeyondRepair007

Get a divorce.

Honestly I know nothing about open marriages, but from what I have gleaned…if you’re both not on the same page and the marriage isn’t 110% healthy, this will kill it. Others who know more will come along…but I wanted to share this.

So it will likely kill your marriage anyway…get a divorce.


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## Tested_by_stress

What is it that you think you'll get from others that you can't get from your husband?


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## Captain Obvious

Some men just don't like the idea of their wives being plowed by lots of random dudes, I guess some of us are old fashioned. He clearly doesn't want this, so if you're going to insist on it, just divorce already. You can do the town and he can find someone that just wants to be with him.


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## thunderchad

Get divorced. Simply telling your husband you want an open marriage will destroy him forever.

Either live with sex with just him or divorce.


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## Thatredhead

Tested_by_stress said:


> What is it that you think you'll get from others that you can't get from your husband?


To be brutally honest, my husband isn't very good in bed. He's done very quickly, just as soon as I get going. It's extremely frustrating and everytime we talk about it i get some version of 'It's not my fault you're just too good. So he blames his lack of control on me and never tries to fix it. 

I want better sex, different sex, I want to explore and learn. I want to know what I don’t know. I still feel somewhat naive, to be honest. 

For all the emphasis people put on sex, I feel it ought to better than it is. Surely there is something more that I am missing.


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## thunderchad

They make pills and sprays for premature ejaculated.

You can also watch porn together to explore and try new things.

Also, ever consider a sex therapist?


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## thunderchad

How old are you guys?


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## TXTrini

Thatredhead said:


> To be brutally honest, my husband isn't very good in bed. He's done very quickly, just as soon as I get going. It's extremely frustrating and everytime we talk about it i get some version of 'It's not my fault you're just too good. So he blames his lack of control on me and never tries to fix it.
> 
> I want better sex, different sex, I want to explore and learn. I want to know what I don’t know. I still feel somewhat naive, to be honest.
> 
> For all the emphasis people put on sex, I feel it ought to better than it is. Surely there is something more that I am missing.


How the heck have you guys been married 20 years without addressing his PE? Good, God. If he hasn't wanted to improve his performance by now, it's unlikely he ever will. He seems only concerned about satisfying himself, sheesh.

I second divorce over open marriage, but I'm biased b/c I don't favor polygamy. Out of curiosity, how do you see that conversation going, considering he's been so stubborn about discussing his sexual dysfunction.


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## thunderchad

The grass isn't always greener and I think you might have unrealistic expectations.

Even if you are fit and beautiful, what kind of man wants to sleep with a middle aged married mother?

The men you fantasize about are probably not this kind of man.


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## Sfort

At least work on his PE before you blow up the marriage. I totally understand you wanting more. Just be sure that your husband can't or won't do what you need before you take the big step. It's your journey. He's not going to go with you.

Give him a blow job early in the evening. Go for sex later. He should last longer.


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## Thatredhead

TXTrini said:


> How the heck have you guys been married 20 years without addressing his PE? Good, God. If he hasn't wanted to improve his performance by now, it's unlikely he ever will. He seems only concerned about satisfying himself, sheesh.
> ... he's been so stubborn about discussing his sexual dysfunction.


He's EXTREMELY sensitive about any kind of criticism or suggestion. There's no point in bringing it up anymore. Nothing is ever his fault. He's also morbidly obese which is another problem he won't deal with. 

I didn't know for most of the 20 years that guys were supposed to last longer, that sex was supposed to be better. How could I have known? 
Now that I know I want better , different, and more exciting sex. 

I want the same husband but a different lover.


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## Diana7

Concentrate on improving the sex life within the marriage.
It's a fallacy that everyone has loads of sexual partners before they marry. Some of the best and happiest marriages I know are with couples who met young and are each other's one and only.
However if you are determined to be unfaithful it's hard to see how the marriage will survive.
It will opening a can of worms.
It's pretty selfish to want to stay married but sleep with loads of other guys. Wanting a faithful spouse isn't 'male pride' or down to a 'cultural aversion' to having other sexual partners, it's what marriage is about. Faithfulness.


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## thunderchad

Thatredhead said:


> He's EXTREMELY sensitive about any kind of criticism or suggestion. There's no point in bringing it up anymore. Nothing is ever his fault. He's also morbidly obese which is another problem he won't deal with.


Start with sex counseling and working on both of your health. I'm guessing if he's morbidly obese you are likely overweight too. Diet and exercise and a focus on health will almost certainly improve your sex lives too. Be a team, work together.


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## bobert

Thatredhead said:


> We've been married since high school, 20 years this year. I married young to escape a difficult home situation where I was raised in a restrictive religious cult. He was my first sexual experience. I didn't know anything about being a real wife or about real life and hated sex for a long time. After kids that changed. Now I have a sex drive and I'm interested in lots of men and feel cheated out of a fulfilling sex life because I was basically forced into an early marriage. I want everything I missed out on, everything that normal people have before they settle down. BUT...BIG BUT....I love my husband and don't want him to be hurt. We've spoken about this many times and he understands where I'm coming from. However he just can't bring himself to open up the marriage, even though I am more than willing for him to find other partners. I think it would be good for him to have the same experience, as we both missed out. He is completely uninterested. He wishes he could grant me what I want but he says he is worried about pregnancy and disease. I dont really believe that. I think it's male pride or some sort of cultural aversion.
> 
> I know everyone is going to say get a divorce but that's not what either of us wants. At least not yet. We have kids and a home and property and a life. I think it is ridiculous to blow that all up because of sex. There has to be middle ground, some agreement to be reached. I just don't know how to reconcile all of this.
> 
> Anyway, I've been reading here for awhile but haven't seen anything close to my situation.


Your husband said no, so that's it. Your options are to get over it, or get divorced.

There is no middle ground when it comes to requesting an open marriage. This is not something that can be compromised on - unless of course you want to ruin the marriage. 

You say it's stupid to blow up your marriage and family over sex, but that is exactly what you are doing. You are wanting to blow up the marriage over "what ifs" and fantasies. 

Your husband is absolutely correct that you could get pregnant and get STDs. Is that the entire reason he said no? I doubt it. But it definitely IS a real and good reason not to ***** yourself out. You are not invincible, STDs are running rampant, condoms are not 100% effective nor are they effective against all STDs and methods of transmission, and birth control is not 100% effective. 



Thatredhead said:


> I want the same husband but a different lover.


Be honest with yourself, it's not your husband you fear losing.


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## Thatredhead

thunderchad said:


> Start with sex counseling and working on both of your health. I'm guessing if he's morbidly obese you are likely overweight too. Diet and exercise and a focus on health will almost certainly improve your sex lives too. Be a team, work together.


I'm in shape. I help him with healthy eating and exercise when he is willing.


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## re16

If he already has issues with confidence, you telling him you want other men can't be helping with that. Honestly what you are talking about is not a part of marriage... one party forcing the other to do something they don't want to because they are inadequate.... it will end in destruction of the marriage.


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## TexasMom1216

Thatredhead said:


> I want the same husband but a different lover.


We can’t really help you until you’re ready to be honest with yourself. You want a plan B while you shop around. I’m sorry you married so young and feel that you missed out. You need to divorce and move on to the next phase of your life.


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## Tested_by_stress

_I see this blowing up in your face OP ._


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## Thatredhead

TexasMom1216 said:


> We can’t really help you until you’re ready to be honest with yourself. You want a plan B while you shop around. I’m sorry you married so young and feel that you missed out. You need to divorce and move on to the next phase of your life.


 I'm being completely honest. I love this man. He is part of me and I can't imagine a life without him. We literally grew up together. 

I love him. He loves me. I'm just tired of mediocre boring sex and tired of knowing that there is more that I don't know. 

I definitely don't want a plan B. I would never ever marry or get into a serious relationship again. Never ever. Once is enough for this lifetime. I can't emphasize enough how much being married has turned me off the whole institution. 
Quite the quandary isn't it? A woman who despises marriage wants to save the marriage she has, while still finding sexual fulfillment. It does seem like an impossibility, seeing it typed out like that.


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## thunderchad

I hope he leaves for someone who's willing to be faithful.


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## Captain Obvious

So you're in shape, and could probably score with any random horny male out there looking for no strings attached sex. Your husband is morbidly obese, those were your words, and would probably have to pay for sex in one way or another, even though he is clearly against an open marriage. Your sex-life is obviously an issue with your marriage. Not sure what the solution is to that, but I do know its not you scoring dude after dude after dude while your obese husband with performance issues languishes at home wondering how many guys his wife has banged this week. Do you not see what a complete disaster this would be for your marriage?


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## TexasMom1216

Thatredhead said:


> I'm being completely honest. I love this man. He is part of me and I can't imagine a life without him. We literally grew up together.
> 
> I love him. He loves me. I'm just tired of mediocre boring sex and tired of knowing that there is more that I don't know.
> 
> I definitely don't want a plan B. I would never ever marry or get into a serious relationship again. Never ever. Once is enough for this lifetime. I can't emphasize enough how much being married has turned me off the whole institution.
> Quite the quandary isn't it? A woman who despises marriage wants to save the marriage she has, while still finding sexual fulfillment. It does seem like an impossibility, seeing it typed out like that.


You list all the reasons he’s unlovable to justify cheating on him and then talk about what a great person you are because you want to preserve your marriage. You talk about how you hate being married but you want to stay married? Let me guess, he has money? Or you have none? If you were serious about this sexual adventure, you’d get a divorce.


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## TXTrini

Thatredhead said:


> He's EXTREMELY sensitive about any kind of criticism or suggestion. There's no point in bringing it up anymore. Nothing is ever his fault. He's also morbidly obese which is another problem he won't deal with.
> 
> I didn't know for most of the 20 years that guys were supposed to last longer, that sex was supposed to be better. How could I have known?
> Now that I know I want better , different, and more exciting sex.
> 
> I want the same husband but a different lover.


While I sympathize with your situation, it sounds like you want out but don't want the fallout. So your husband has PE, he's bad in bed, obese while you're fit, all negative things. What do you love about him and why do you want to be married to him?

Sounds like you're looking, for support to have your cake and eat it too. Someone's going to get screwed over, there's no middle ground here.


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## SunCMars

I see you are living in Canada...

You might get lucky if you move up near the Arctic Circle.

I hear some of the married Eskimo's women still welcome strange men into their igloos.


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## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> I'm being completely honest. I love this man. He is part of me and I can't imagine a life without him. We literally grew up together.
> 
> I love him. He loves me. I'm just tired of mediocre boring sex and tired of knowing that there is more that I don't know.
> 
> I definitely don't want a plan B. I would never ever marry or get into a serious relationship again. Never ever. Once is enough for this lifetime. I can't emphasize enough how much being married has turned me off the whole institution.
> Quite the quandary isn't it? A woman who despises marriage wants to save the marriage she has, while still finding sexual fulfillment. It does seem like an impossibility, seeing it typed out like that.


If you love him so much and can't imagine life without him, why do you despise being married to him so much?


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## TXTrini

Thatredhead said:


> I'm being completely honest. I love this man. He is part of me and I can't imagine a life without him. We literally grew up together.
> 
> I love him. He loves me. I'm just tired of mediocre boring sex and tired of knowing that there is more that I don't know.
> 
> I definitely don't want a plan B. I would never ever marry or get into a serious relationship again. Never ever. Once is enough for this lifetime. I can't emphasize enough how much being married has turned me off the whole institution.
> Quite the quandary isn't it? A woman who despises marriage wants to save the marriage she has, while still finding sexual fulfillment. It does seem like an impossibility, seeing it typed out like that.


So you want to remain married to him because he's safe and familiar?

What you're proposing is extremely selfish and patronizing. Do you think because he's obese and has PE, he has no option but whatever you dole out to him? How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot?

In his place, I'd rather take my chances alone.


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## Thatredhead

Diana7 said:


> If you love him so much and can't imagine life without him, why do you despise being married to him so much?


Honestly I think that has everything to do with the religion I was raised in and how I learned to.view marriage as an institution that favored men and demeaned and entrapped women. My husband proved to be an exceptional man, and is different and better than the men I grew up around.

I have to laugh at those insinuating or flat out saying I'm staying with him for money. It's the exact opposite. We couldn't afford to get divorced if we wanted to. Lawyers aren't cheap and why pay for 2 households when we barely keep.one afloat? 

I.dont want to put my kids through a divorce, I don't want to go through the hassle and neither does he. I do want my cake and I want to eat it too....I want the happy marriage I have and I want good exciting sex. 

According to you guys I have to pick one.or the other...


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## thunderchad

I just wanna bang random dudes.


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## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> Honestly I think that has everything to do with the religion I was raised in and how I learned to.view marriage as an institution that favored men and demeaned and entrapped women. My husband proved to be an exceptional man, and is different and better than the men I grew up around.
> 
> I have to laugh at those insinuating or flat out saying I'm staying with him for money. It's the exact opposite. We couldn't afford to get divorced if we wanted to. Lawyers aren't cheap and why pay for 2 households when we barely keep.one afloat?
> 
> I.dont want to put my kids through a divorce, I don't want to go through the hassle and neither does he. I do want my cake and I want to eat it too....I want the happy marriage I have and I want good exciting sex.
> 
> According to you guys I have to pick one.or the other...


I am a Christian but I don't see marriage as you describe at all. 
Well you can have both if you are happy to lie, cheat and deceive your husband. 
It's likely your will end up divorced anyway if he finds out.


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## TXTrini

Thatredhead said:


> I.dont want to put my kids through a divorce, I don't want to go through the hassle and neither does he. I do want my cake and I want to eat it too....I want the happy marriage I have and I want good exciting sex.
> 
> According to you guys I have to pick one.or the other...


Why don't you give him that choice? How old are your kids, btw? You do know they'll eventually find out about you.

You certainly do have to pick if you want to screw other men.


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## Thatredhead

Diana7 said:


> I am a Christian but I don't see marriage as you describe at all.
> Well you can have both if you are happy to lie, cheat and deceive your husband.
> It's likely your will end up divorced anyway if he finds out.


I'm not happy to lie or cheat, I want to avoid that. I suck at lying and I'm too clueless to cheat properly. I want everything open and above board with all parties. Surely this kind of arrangement can't be that off the wall. It seems perfectly rational and logical to me.


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## A18S37K14H18

OP,

You've told us you WANT this, a different lover, a better lover, sex with others etc.

So you want that. Your husband doesn't want to open up the marriage.


You either keep the marriage closed or you divorce him.

Do NOT cheat.


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## thunderchad

Would you care if your husband had sex with skinny sexy blonde 20 year olds?


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## A18S37K14H18

So you said you don't want a divorce, you don't want to put your children through that.

After you cheat and your husband finds out the odds are really good you'll be getting that divorce you say you don't want.


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## Thatredhead

thunderchad said:


> Would you care if your husband had sex with skinny sexy blonde 20 year olds?


Wouldn't bother me at all. I'd cheer him on!! He missed out too! His sexual education and sexual experience is even more lacking than mine. I’ve encouraged him to get another girl. There was a fling, with some topless pics with a girl but I think he did that just to test the waters. He never pursued her. He is MORE than welcome to pursue any opportunity that presents itself to him but he refuses. I frequently remind him that he has total freedom to do whatever he wants, but he will.never do the same for me.


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## TexasMom1216

You don’t want to put your children through a divorce but you’ll put them through watching a string of men through their mother’s bedroom while she humiliated their father for being fat?


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## Openminded

And how much of a demand do you think there is for a morbidly obese man on the open market? He’s not stupid — he knows he won’t score so why should he want you to?


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## Lynnsnake

Thatredhead said:


> We've been married since high school, 20 years this year. I married young to escape a difficult home situation where I was raised in a restrictive religious cult. He was my first sexual experience. I didn't know anything about being a real wife or about real life and hated sex for a long time. After kids that changed. Now I have a sex drive and I'm interested in lots of men and feel cheated out of a fulfilling sex life because I was basically forced into an early marriage. I want everything I missed out on, everything that normal people have before they settle down. BUT...BIG BUT....I love my husband and don't want him to be hurt. We've spoken about this many times and he understands where I'm coming from. However he just can't bring himself to open up the marriage, even though I am more than willing for him to find other partners. I think it would be good for him to have the same experience, as we both missed out. He is completely uninterested. He wishes he could grant me what I want but he says he is worried about pregnancy and disease. I dont really believe that. I think it's male pride or some sort of cultural aversion.
> 
> I know everyone is going to say get a divorce but that's not what either of us wants. At least not yet. We have kids and a home and property and a life. I think it is ridiculous to blow that all up because of sex. There has to be middle ground, some agreement to be reached. I just don't know how to reconcile all of this.
> 
> Anyway, I've been reading here for awhile but haven't seen anything close to my situation.


There is one way for you to have both a marriage and the sex you dream of. Most will disagree with this, but it worked for me and my wife. we were married young and missed out like you. After one child we wanted no more so I got a vasectomy. Sex became boring for both of us. We heard about lifestyle clubs where people find others to have sex with. We went to such a place just to observe. We met lots of people and the plan changed after a couple of hours when we both found people we wanted sex with. She went one way, I went another and we met up four hours later. The next day we discussed what happened and we both had a good time. Now we go there almost every weekend. Life is good again. She’s on birth control to be safe.


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## jlg07

Thatredhead said:


> He's EXTREMELY sensitive about any kind of criticism or suggestion. There's no point in bringing it up anymore. Nothing is ever his fault. He's also morbidly obese which is another problem he won't deal with.
> 
> I didn't know for most of the 20 years that guys were supposed to last longer, that sex was supposed to be better. How could I have known?
> Now that I know I want better , different, and more exciting sex.
> 
> I want the same husband but a different lover.


WORK on sex together. Don't accuse him, criticize, etc.. Get a good book or two (or some videos -- not porn, but for couples to improve their sex life).
Also suggest a sex therapist -- not for HIM, but so that you BOTH have improve your sex life together.

HE doesn't want it -- if you keep pushing and actually do it, it will destroy your marriage.


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## Thatredhead

Lynnsnake said:


> There is one way for you to have both a marriage and the sex you dream of. Most will disagree with this, but it worked for me and my wife. we were married young and missed out like you. After one child we wanted no more so I got a vasectomy. Sex became boring for both of us. We heard about lifestyle clubs where people find others to have sex with. We went to such a place just to observe. We met lots of people and the plan changed after a couple of hours when we both found people we wanted sex with. She went one way, I went another and we met up four hours later. The next day we discussed what happened and we both had a good time. Now we go there almost every weekend. Life is good again. She’s on birth control to be safe.


That sounds amazing! I don't think there's anything around here like that, maybe in Toronto? I'd be very interested in something like that, I don't think my husband would. Maybe the observing....


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## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> Thatredhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be brutally honest, my husband isn't very good in bed. He's done very quickly, just as soon as I get going. It's extremely frustrating and everytime we talk about it i get some version of 'It's not my fault you're just too good. So he blames his lack of control on me and never tries to fix it.
> 
> I want better sex, different sex, I want to explore and learn. I want to know what I don’t know. I still feel somewhat naive, to be honest.
> 
> For all the emphasis people put on sex, I feel it ought to better than it is. Surely there is something more that I am missing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thatredhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's EXTREMELY sensitive about any kind of criticism or suggestion. There's no point in bringing it up anymore. Nothing is ever his fault.
> 
> I want the same husband but a different lover.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . There has to be middle ground, some agreement to be reached. I just don't know how to reconcile all of this.
Click to expand...


There is a middle ground here between divorcing and cheating and open marriage. That middle ground is him becoming a more fit, better lover who can please you sexually. That is not asking too much of a husband. 

He may be sensitive about being a fat, two-stroker who can't (and sounds like won't even try) satisfy you. 

But his other options are you dumping his butt or going off and getting it on with other guys, in which case the first time you have a good sexual experience, you will leave him anyway. 

So it really is in his best interest to lose weight and learn to take care of business in the bedroom. 

From your standpoint, it make you uncomfortable and take guts to leave him. There will be some discomfort and take guts to start getting with other dudes. 

And it will be uncomfortable and take guts to put his feet to the fire to get him to be an adequate lover and desirable to you. 

Each of you needs to pick your discomfort and courage. 

He will need to choose between getting in better shape and becoming a better lover or you screwing other men and ultimately leaving him. 

And you need to choose whether to gather up the guts to get with other men and ultimately leave or try to get him to step up to the plate in the bedroom.


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## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> Wouldn't bother me at all. I'd cheer him on!! He missed out too! His sexual education and sexual experience is even more lacking than mine. I’ve encouraged him to get another girl. There was a fling, with some topless pics with a girl but I think he did that just to test the waters. He never pursued her. He is MORE than welcome to pursue any opportunity that presents itself to him but he refuses. I frequently remind him that he has total freedom to do whatever he wants, but he will.never do the same for me.


You feel safe in saying that because deep down you know that no other woman would have him. He wouldn't be able to get with anyone else no matter how hard he tried and you know that. You feel comfortable in saying he can get with others because you know it will never happen.


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## jlg07

Thatredhead said:


> Honestly I think that has everything to do with the religion I was raised in and how I learned to.view marriage as an institution that favored men and demeaned and entrapped women. My husband proved to be an exceptional man, and is different and better than the men I grew up around.
> 
> I have to laugh at those insinuating or flat out saying I'm staying with him for money. It's the exact opposite. We couldn't afford to get divorced if we wanted to. Lawyers aren't cheap and why pay for 2 households when we barely keep.one afloat?
> 
> I.dont want to put my kids through a divorce, I don't want to go through the hassle and neither does he. I do want my cake and I want to eat it too....I want the happy marriage I have and I want good exciting sex.
> 
> According to you guys I have to pick one.or the other...


 I hate to say this, but how do you think your H feels when you tell him that he doesn't satisfy you, he's too fat, and you want to bang other guys? You say he loves you -- do you have ANY IDEA the amount of damage you did to him when you told him that? What it does to his feelings for YOU? He may try to put up a good front -- but trying to open a marriage with a partner who does NOT want that is very emotionally damaging.


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## jlg07

Thatredhead said:


> Wouldn't bother me at all. I'd cheer him on!! He missed out too! His sexual education and sexual experience is even more lacking than mine. I’ve encouraged him to get another girl. There was a fling, with some topless pics with a girl but I think he did that just to test the waters. He never pursued her. He is MORE than welcome to pursue any opportunity that presents itself to him but he refuses. I frequently remind him that he has total freedom to do whatever he wants, but he will.never do the same for me.


Because he values your marriage -- he DOES NOT WANT to do that for you or for him.

You said it is perfectly logical to you -- and you seem to forget the emotional part of this.

There are folks on here who have open marriages and some who have polygamous relationships.
However, and they will be the first to tell you this -- ALL of the parties AGREED to it completely.


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## oldshirt

jlg07 said:


> There are folks on here who have open marriages and some who have polygamous relationships.
> However, and they will be the first to tell you this -- ALL of the parties AGREED to it completely.


In addition to the necessity of consent is the fact that even with consent, opening up the marriage to nonmonogamy in attempt to address or "fix" a bad sex life at home will always blow up the marriage even if the intent of the nonmonogamy was an attempt to remain in the marriage. 

In other words, she is wanting to get with other dudes in attempt to remain married to this guy. 

That simply doesn't work. sex with other people is not therapy for a bad marital sex life.


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## BigDaddyNY

Thatredhead said:


> We've been married since high school, 20 years this year. I married young to escape a difficult home situation where I was raised in a restrictive religious cult. He was my first sexual experience. I didn't know anything about being a real wife or about real life and hated sex for a long time. After kids that changed. Now I have a sex drive and I'm interested in lots of men and feel cheated out of a fulfilling sex life because I was basically forced into an early marriage. I want everything I missed out on, everything that normal people have before they settle down. BUT...BIG BUT....I love my husband and don't want him to be hurt. We've spoken about this many times and he understands where I'm coming from. However he just can't bring himself to open up the marriage, even though I am more than willing for him to find other partners. I think it would be good for him to have the same experience, as we both missed out. He is completely uninterested. He wishes he could grant me what I want but he says he is worried about pregnancy and disease. I dont really believe that. I think it's male pride or some sort of cultural aversion.
> 
> I know everyone is going to say get a divorce but that's not what either of us wants. At least not yet. We have kids and a home and property and a life. I think it is ridiculous to blow that all up because of sex. There has to be middle ground, some agreement to be reached. I just don't know how to reconcile all of this.
> 
> Anyway, I've been reading here for awhile but haven't seen anything close to my situation.


You asked, he answered, you are done. Don't keep badgering him about it at all. Don't bring it up again. 

If you can't live with that and must sleep with multiple men then do it as a single woman. I can tell you that you will survive and can be very happy and satisfied with just one partner in your life. I've only been with one women and we are 35 years together. We continue to raise the bar on our sex life.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Thatredhead said:


> To be brutally honest, my husband isn't very good in bed. He's done very quickly, just as soon as I get going. It's extremely frustrating and everytime we talk about it i get some version of 'It's not my fault you're just too good. So he blames his lack of control on me and never tries to fix it.
> 
> I want better sex, different sex, I want to explore and learn. I want to know what I don’t know. I still feel somewhat naive, to be honest.
> 
> For all the emphasis people put on sex, I feel it ought to better than it is. Surely there is something more that I am missing.


Have a real husband and wife conversation about what you need from him. Just because he is done doesn't mean he can't help you get there too. Or have him get you to orgasm first. And try to get the point across to him that there is nothing wrong with admitting you could be better and should look for ways to improve. 

That's the practical advice for him. As for you. You sound like a very selfish wife. Yes you should get satisfaction, but you are using his lack of skill as an excuse to cheat and look elsewhere. Why not direct that energy into working with him to get better at satisfying you?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Thatredhead said:


> I'm not happy to lie or cheat, I want to avoid that. I suck at lying and I'm too clueless to cheat properly. I want everything open and above board with all parties. Surely this kind of arrangement can't be that off the wall. It seems perfectly rational and logical to me.


That kind of arrangement isn't mainstream, but it isn't "that off the wall" either. There are people here that are or having been doing it. Thing is you have asked and he has answered. You don't go asking again. I don't know if there are any sex acts you don't like and won't do, but how would you feel if he kept asking for it over and over again. 

The discussion is done or you leave.


----------



## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> I'm not happy to lie or cheat, I want to avoid that. I suck at lying and I'm too clueless to cheat properly. I want everything open and above board with all parties. Surely this kind of arrangement can't be that off the wall. It seems perfectly rational and logical to me.


No point in being married if you want to sleep around.
Your husband doesn't want you to do it(not surprisingly) so your alternative is to either be faithful or cheat and lie.


----------



## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> That sounds amazing! I don't think there's anything around here like that, maybe in Toronto? I'd be very interested in something like that, I don't think my husband would. Maybe the observing....


He has already said no. Stop pressuring him to commit adultery unless you want your marriage to end.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> There is a middle ground here between divorcing and cheating and open marriage. That middle ground is him becoming a more fit, better lover who can please you sexually. That is not asking too much of a husband.
> 
> He may be sensitive about being a fat, two-stroker who can't (and sounds like won't even try) satisfy you.
> 
> But his other options are you dumping his butt or going off and getting it on with other guys, in which case the first time you have a good sexual experience, you will leave him anyway.
> 
> So it really is in his best interest to lose weight and learn to take care of business in the bedroom.
> 
> From your standpoint, it make you uncomfortable and take guts to leave him. There will be some discomfort and take guts to start getting with other dudes.
> 
> And it will be uncomfortable and take guts to put his feet to the fire to get him to be an adequate lover and desirable to you.
> 
> Each of you needs to pick your discomfort and courage.
> 
> He will need to choose between getting in better shape and becoming a better lover or you screwing other men and ultimately leaving him.
> 
> And you need to choose whether to gather up the guts to get with other men and ultimately leave or try to get him to step up to the plate in the bedroom.


Even if he did improve things in the bedroom she may still want to have sex with others.


----------



## manwithnoname

Thatredhead said:


> I'm not happy to lie or cheat, I want to avoid that. I suck at lying and I'm too clueless to cheat properly. I want everything open and above board with all parties. Surely this kind of arrangement can't be that off the wall. It seems perfectly rational and logical to me.


So if you were a good liar and had ideas and opportunity to cheat without getting caught, you would? 
You are extremely selfish. How old are your children? Do you both work full time? 
You said you married to get away from your cult like upbringing but then said you were forced into marriage, which is it?
You also said you’re not staying for money, that neither of you could afford to get divorced…this is staying because of money.

If he lost weight, fixed his PE , and was more than adequate in bed, would you still want the open marriage? If so, just divorce him now. You owe him that much.


----------



## Young at Heart

Thatredhead said:


> We've been married since high school, 20 years this year. I married young to escape a difficult home situation where I was raised in a restrictive religious cult. He was my first sexual experience. I didn't know anything about being a real wife or about real life and hated sex for a long time. After kids that changed. Now I have a sex drive and I'm interested in lots of men and* feel cheated out of a fulfilling sex life* because I was basically forced into an early marriage. *I want everything I missed out on, everything that normal people have before they settle down*. BUT...BIG BUT...*.I love my husband and don't want him to be hurt*. We've spoken about this many times and he understands where I'm coming from. However he just can't bring himself to open up the marriage, even though I am more than willing for him to find other partners. I think it would be good for him to have the same experience, as we both missed out. He is completely uninterested. He wishes he could grant me what I want but he says he is worried about pregnancy and disease. I dont really believe that. I think it's male pride or some sort of cultural aversion.
> 
> I know everyone is going to say get a divorce but that's not what either of us wants. At least not yet. We have kids and a home and property and a life. I think it is ridiculous to blow that all up because of sex. There has to be middle ground, some agreement to be reached. I just don't know how to reconcile all of this.
> 
> Anyway, I've been reading here for awhile but haven't seen anything close to my situation.


If you have been reading, then you should know that lots of people have horror stories about dating, being taken advantage of getting their hearts broken, ending up with STD's, etc. 

This sounds to me like a question of "is your glass half full or half empty."

But hurting the man you love, the father of your children, you want to risk your marriage to explore what you missed out on in your earlier years. Your exploration may tell you that what you missed was a lot of anguish, heart ache and abuse. You need to look at your husband and your children and ask yourself is your glass so half empty that you need to suspend you marriage so you can sexually explore the world? 

Let's say you do your sexual exploration and you find out that your husband and children are no longer compatible to the sexually free lifestyle you want? Do you really think you can sow your wild oats and then step back into the role and life you had previously? I would be surprised if you could. Also don't be surprised if at some point your children learn that you had a perfectly fine marriage and you decided you needed to cheat on your wedding vows. Not a great role model for your kids. What if after you have sown your wild oats and come back to your husband, you find out that because of what you have done, he can't treat you the same as before you left for your fling? What then.

Why don't you look at your glass as half full and be satisfied with what you have. You escaped a horrible childhood situation by marriying a decent guy, who loves you and who you love. Your marriage has been blessed by children. You have learned the beauty of sex with someone who cares about you deeply and is committed to you. You have a lot going on that is positive in your life. Focus on the positive.

However, it is your life to live. You can risk ruining it if you want. It sounds like you want to risk ruining it. Read some more of the infidelity stories about people whose lives and families have been ruined by sex outside of marriage.

Good luck. You have free will, use it wisely, but live with the consequences of your actions.


----------



## Diana7

The thing is that your husband has said no, so you either love him and respect his desire to remain faithful, or you cheat. 
Right now you seem intent on disrespecting his decision and hell bent on finding a way to do this anyway. If he has said no why are you even here trying to find a way? If you don't love and respect him enough to take what he said and remain faithful then end the marriage. If you think so little of your children that you will risk the marriage falling apart just for casual sex what does that say about you? 
You will almost certainly find that the grass isnt greener, that having sex with loads of people who have no love for you or no moral values in that they will willingly have sex with a married woman leaves you empty and regretful. 
Sex with a man who loves you and is committed to you far far outweighs casual sex with goodness knows who. You really didn't miss out on anything. You are blessed with a good husband and children yet you want to throw it away for what? There have been many divorces in my family due to cheating. I have seen the pain first hand. Its just not worth it believe me.


----------



## Young at Heart

Thatredhead said:


> Honestly I think that has everything to do with the religion I was raised in and how I learned to.view marriage as an institution that favored men and demeaned and entrapped women. My husband proved to be an exceptional man, and is different and better than the men I grew up around.
> 
> I have to laugh at those insinuating or flat out saying I'm staying with him for money. It's the exact opposite. We couldn't afford to get divorced if we wanted to. Lawyers aren't cheap and why pay for 2 households when we barely keep.one afloat?
> 
> *I.dont want to put my kids through a divorce,* I don't want to go through the hassle and neither does he.* I do want my cake and I want to eat it too....I want the happy marriage I have and I want good exciting sex.
> 
> According to you guys I have to pick one.or the other..*.


You can have if both ways, if and only if your husband is on board with the open marriage thing. The one thing you didn't include in the post above is that he is not OK with an open marriage and as you said in another post he has concerns over diseases, pregnancy, etc. 

If it were me, I would also be concerned that you would get your heart crushed and come running home, expecting me to heal you of the trauma that you caused and imposing on me the emotional damage that you might need to unload on me. That could make it darn hard to treat you the same as before you left, if you returned as emotionally damaged goods.

If you want to have your cake and eat it to, go for it, just remember that if your life comes crashing down around your ears you need to accept that you did it to yourself, the man you claim you love, and possibly your children.

Why not spend the money on a good marriage counselor that might be able to help your husband get his life together (weight management, PE, etc.) help you figure out some "healthy" goals compatible with marriage so you and your H can explore the sex life you want at least in part.

Good luck to you.


----------



## Lynnsnake

Thatredhead said:


> That sounds amazing! I don't think there's anything around here like that, maybe in Toronto? I'd be very interested in something like that, I don't think my husband would. Maybe the observing....


We were just exploring ways to make it fun again and didn’t really think it would go that far. Wife and a guy became interested in each other, danced, talked and hit it off. She wanted him and I told her it’s ok, so they went to a private room together. That happened three times with different guys for her that night. i did the same. We were both completely satisfied when we went home. By the end of a week we were ready to do it again. We are having fun now.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> Even if he did improve things in the bedroom she may still want to have sex with others.


She probably will. Yearning for variety and to experience new things and new people is it's own thing. People experience the desire for variety and novelty even in good marriages with good sex lives. That's why we have swinging and open marriages and polyamory etc in the first place. 

But her question was if there was any middle ground. The middle ground here is to work on their own sex life at home so that it is more pleasurable and satisfying for her. Since he is not consenting to her getting it elsewhere, then it's on him to step up to the plate. 

Here's the thing, she is probably around 38 years old and has raised her family and that female libido and loss of crippling inhibition that often occurs in women before menopause is kicking in. She's probably going to scratch her itch whether he agrees to it or not.. I think we can all see that. 

As it stands right now, the moment she gets with some hunk that has abz and gunz that throws her legs over his shoulders and gives her more orgasms in one hour than she has had her entire life, she is going to be packing her bags whether this particular OM will have her or not. Just knowing that fit men and good sex are out there will be enough for her to leave her forwarding address on the kitchen counter so he can forward her mail. 

As far as I'm concerned the above scenario is a forgone conclusion. 

However, if he can get himself into at least healthy, functional shape, treat his PE and learn some skillz to satisfy,,, maybe it will motivate her to stay in her own bed. Maybe. 

And even if she does still want to get out and experience some strange, she may be ok with just getting a little on the side now and then but still maintain want to remain with her H and still have an active love life with him. 

And just maybe, if he get into shape and become a decent lover, maybe he too will open to the idea of getting out and going to swing clubs and getting in on the action himself and it will be something that they can enjoy together. Maybe. 

But no matter how you look at this and no matter what your perspective and beliefs on open marriage, the first step here is to address their marital and sexual dysfunction issues at home first.


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> Here's the thing, she is probably around 38 years old and has raised her family and that female libido and loss of crippling inhibition that often occurs in women before menopause is kicking in. She's probably going to scratch her itch whether he agrees to it or not.. I think we can all see that.


Let me expand on this a little more. You don't see it talked about as much these days, but 40 or so years ago is was common knowledge and the topic of many articles and the topic of old talk shows like Donahue and Oprah etc that there is a spike in female libido and a corresponding drop in female inhibition in the mid to upper 30s. 

At that age it was very common for women who had been married for 20 some years and had raised their families to stop caring about what the neighbors think and stop obsessing about being good girls and they had a big spike in their libidos and they simply wanted "more." And they wanted more out of life than cleaning up puke and going to PTA meetings. 

Many exited their marriages in what we call Walk Away Wife Syndrome today. Many just sucked it up and lived miserable lives of quiet desperation and made their husbands miserable with all the complaining and biching and just general bitterness and resentment. Many cheated and started screwing pool boys and gave us movie classics life "The Graduate" with Ann Bancroft and Dustin Hoffman. 

And it is also what made up the backbone of the swinging community for those that chose to remain in the marriages and discussed their desires with their husbands and they worked out mutually agreeable means of scratching their mutual itches. I've been out of the swinging community for several years but I am willing to bet that the 35-50some year old age bracket is still the predominant age range in that community. 

But where I am going with this is as an upper 30s female that has been married to one man since her teens and has raised her family etc,, we can't simply pat her on the head and tell her its naughty to get with other men. Her H is fat, he doesn't try to please her and he doesn't want to talk about it. She didn't get too into specifics but for all we know, she may not have ever had a orgasm with with another human being her whole life. 

This is the equivalent of a 19 year old man with an obese, inhibited, sexually dysfunctional woman who bring herself to have sex with him to the degree that he can have an orgasm (but who gets off the moment he touches her) and she refuses to discuss it or address the issues.

.......and now he is realizing there are slender, attractive hotties out there who are horny and willing to ride him like a stolen horse and have hot, monkey sex with him.

How long to you think he is going to stay with the fat, inhibited, dysfunctional woman?????

The sand is flowing through the hourglass and the clock is ticking down on their marriage as we speak.


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> 40 or so years ago is was common knowledge and the topic of many articles and the topic of old talk shows like Donahue and Oprah etc that there is a spike in female libido and a corresponding drop in female inhibition in the mid to upper 30s.
> 
> 
> This is the equivalent of a 19 year old man with an obese, inhibited, sexually dysfunctional woman who bring herself to have sex with him to the degree that he can have an orgasm (but who gets off the moment he touches her) and she refuses to discuss it or address the issues.
> 
> .......and now he is realizing there are slender, attractive hotties out there who are horny and willing to ride him like a stolen horse and have hot, monkey sex with him.
> 
> How long to you think he is going to stay with the fat, inhibited, dysfunctional woman?????


TLDR version.


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

The morals of your marriage are for the 2 of you to decide.

As far as the talking to hubby about an open marriage, 
I think you started off on the wrong foot by telling him what YOU wanted out of an open marriage, and all the stuff YOU missed out on and want to experience.

Let him know what HE could get out of it, why you think it would benefit him and so forth.

You say you did it later on, after telling him what YOU missed out on.
Might be to late to put the toothpaste back in the tube but who knows….


----------



## Thatredhead

oldshirt said:


> You feel safe in saying that because deep down you know that no other woman would have him. He wouldn't be able to get with anyone else no matter how hard he tried and you know that. You feel comfortable in saying he can get with others because you know it will never happen.


That's false. He may be overweight but he rocks the dad bod and is bearded and tattooed. He's good looking with beautiful blue eyes and he gets hit on from time to time. He could pick up another woman if he wanted. Heck I have a friend who's made no secret of the fact that she wants him and its a running joke between us. 

It's frustrating that he won't, because he easily could.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> Let me expand on this a little more. You don't see it talked about as much these days, but 40 or so years ago is was common knowledge and the topic of many articles and the topic of old talk shows like Donahue and Oprah etc that there is a spike in female libido and a corresponding drop in female inhibition in the mid to upper 30s.
> 
> At that age it was very common for women who had been married for 20 some years and had raised their families to stop caring about what the neighbors think and stop obsessing about being good girls and they had a big spike in their libidos and they simply wanted "more." And they wanted more out of life than cleaning up puke and going to PTA meetings.
> 
> Many exited their marriages in what we call Walk Away Wife Syndrome today. Many just sucked it up and lived miserable lives of quiet desperation and made their husbands miserable with all the complaining and biching and just general bitterness and resentment. Many cheated and started screwing pool boys and gave us movie classics life "The Graduate" with Ann Bancroft and Dustin Hoffman.
> 
> And it is also what made up the backbone of the swinging community for those that chose to remain in the marriages and discussed their desires with their husbands and they worked out mutually agreeable means of scratching their mutual itches. I've been out of the swinging community for several years but I am willing to bet that the 35-50some year old age bracket is still the predominant age range in that community.
> 
> But where I am going with this is as an upper 30s female that has been married to one man since her teens and has raised her family etc,, we can't simply pat her on the head and tell her its naughty to get with other men. Her H is fat, he doesn't try to please her and he doesn't want to talk about it. She didn't get too into specifics but for all we know, she may not have ever had a orgasm with with another human being her whole life.
> 
> This is the equivalent of a 19 year old man with an obese, inhibited, sexually dysfunctional woman who bring herself to have sex with him to the degree that he can have an orgasm (but who gets off the moment he touches her) and she refuses to discuss it or address the issues.
> 
> .......and now he is realizing there are slender, attractive hotties out there who are horny and willing to ride him like a stolen horse and have hot, monkey sex with him.
> 
> How long to you think he is going to stay with the fat, inhibited, dysfunctional woman?????
> 
> The sand is flowing through the hourglass and the clock is ticking down on their marriage as we speak.


I don't think she said she has raised her children, just that she has children.


----------



## oldshirt

Let me put this into some combinations and permutations to describe how some people fit into monogamy vs consensual nonmonogamy. 

- Some people are satisfied with monogamy and satisfied with their partner. 

- Some people are satisfied with monogamy as relationship paradigm but are unsatisfied with their partner. 

- Some people are satisfied with their partner but not satisfied with monogamy. 

-Some people are not satisfied with their partner and not satisfied with monogamy either. 

Then the other major factor is whether their partner is satisfied with them or satisfied with monogamy or not. 

-The partner may be satisfied with them and satisfied to be monogamous.

-The partner may be fine with monogamy but not satisfied with them. 

- the partner may be satisfied with them but not with monogamy. 

-the partner may not be satisfied with either them or monogamy. 

We can keep going with this and list out all the other combinations such as one may be satisfied with their partner but not with monogamy however the partner wants monogamy but is not satisfied with them,, but I think you get my point and see where I am going with this. Simply by the mathmatics, there are dozens of combinations and permutations. 

So as you can see there are a lot of moving parts there. In a few of those scenarios the stars line up and things are good. But in most combinations, there is a fundamental disconnect. 

In the OP's situation, she is not satisfied with either him nor monogamy itself at this point. 

He is wanting monogamy and may or may not be satisfied with her (if he is, he probably won't be for long at this pont) So just by the calculus and mathmatics, this is a fundamentally flawed marriage and a marriage in crisis that likely needs some serious professional intervention and therapy if it is to survive.


----------



## Diana7

Lynnsnake said:


> We were just exploring ways to make it fun again and didn’t really think it would go that far. Wife and a guy became interested in each other, danced, talked and hit it off. She wanted him and I told her it’s ok, so they went to a private room together. That happened three times with different guys for her that night. i did the same. We were both completely satisfied when we went home. By the end of a week we were ready to do it again. We are having fun now.


We all have very different ideas of fun.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Thatredhead said:


> I know everyone is going to say get a divorce but that's not what either of us wants. *At least not yet.*


From the initial post. Her husband is her Plan B.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> I don't think she said she has raised her children, just that she has children.


Semantics. 

Some people view having raised children as they are grown, out of college and out of the house and in their own careers living completely independently. 

From an evolutionary/biological standpoint, you have raised children once they are able to feed, clothe and toilet themselves and no longer need 24/7 hands on care. 

I'm guessing her kids are somewhere between those two reference points.


----------



## drencrom

Thatredhead said:


> I think it would be good for him to have the same experience, as we both missed out.


If that were the case, he'd be open to it. You want this for YOU, not him.



> He is completely uninterested. He wishes he could grant me what I want but he says he is worried about pregnancy and disease. I dont really believe that.


But of course you don't.



> I think it's male pride or some sort of cultural aversion.


No, it's about some of us men like a faithful committed relationship/marriage and don't want our wives boning other men. Male pride? Well, all these women I hear complaining about their cheating men must be a myth.



> I know everyone is going to say get a divorce but that's not what either of us wants. At least not yet.


Well then what is your solution if he will refuse? Go out and cheat on him? Sure, see if that won't change his idea of whether he wants divorce or not.


----------



## drencrom

thunderchad said:


> Get divorced. Simply telling your husband you want an open marriage will destroy him forever.
> 
> Either live with sex with just him or divorce.


If I were still married, just the mere mention of desiring to open up the marriage would get her a well deserved boot out the door.


----------



## drencrom

Thatredhead said:


> He's EXTREMELY sensitive about any kind of criticism or suggestion.


Well then, an open marriage is sure to help him with that



> There's no point in bringing it up anymore. Nothing is ever his fault. He's also morbidly obese which is another problem he won't deal with.



Ok, I've had enough. Set the poor man free from you. He may not want a divorce for the kids sake, but you have already mentally abused him with all your talk of wanting other men.

Just do him a favor, start talking to him about divorce.


----------



## TexasMom1216

So is it this:


Thatredhead said:


> He may be overweight but he rocks the dad bod and is bearded and tattooed. He's good looking with beautiful blue eyes and he gets hit on from time to time.


Or is it this?


Thatredhead said:


> He's also morbidly obese which is another problem he won't deal with.


Seems like it's whatever means you can sleep with whoever you want whenever you want regardless of your marriage vows. This poor man, he really gambled and lost.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> That's false. He may be overweight but he rocks the dad bod and is bearded and tattooed. He's good looking with beautiful blue eyes and he gets hit on from time to time. He could pick up another woman if he wanted. Heck I have a friend who's made no secret of the fact that she wants him and its a running joke between us.
> 
> It's frustrating that he won't, because he easily could.


OK let's meet in the middle and put it this way. You H may be able to get with your one friend ONCE. 

But an obese man that can only last a few moments and who won't do anything else to please a woman will not be able to have a steady diet of other chicks. 

.....and he knows this. 

He knows that if you open up your marriage, that if he works hard and really puts himself out there and really gives it his all, he "might" get with one or two chicks in a YEAR and each of those chicks will walk away disappointed and never come back. 

Meanwhile, by just simply saying you want to get with other dudes, you will have guys lined up down the street and around the corner day in and day out for an eternity or until find the next guy that you want to be with and monkey branch to him. 

There's really nothing in this for your H. That's what people are trying to tell you. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose in this. 

And he knows this so if you are looking for some kind of magical phrase or verbiage to try to get him to buy off on this, it just isn't going to work. There is no magic phrase or way to put this where he will think it's a good idea. 

He knows his goose is cooked here and that the clock is ticking down on your marriage. 

His only hope here is to lose weight, get fit and step it up in the bedroom and try to make it a pleasurable and satisfying experience for you. If he is unwilling or unable to do that, he might as well help you pack and load your stuff into the moving truck.


----------



## drencrom

Diana7 said:


> I don't think she said she has raised her children, just that she has children.


Let's hope she didn't have a hand in raising them. Good god.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> Heck I have a friend who's made no secret of the fact that she wants him and its a running joke between us.


Your friend is probably humoring you and just being accepting and supportive of your relationship with him. 

One of my best friends has a long standing history of taking in these neighborhood strays that are complete train wrecks and butt ugly and way below his league, but I am respectful of them and will joke and flirt and banter with them as if they are attractive and desirable women. 

That's because I am acknowledging his relationship and his connection to them....... not because I would ever actually touch them with a ten foot pole.


----------



## Diana7

Op you say that you think it would be good for him as well to sleep around because he 'missed out as well'. 
You see many people who were each other's one and only and who didn't have multiple partners don't feel they missed out at all. In fact they are glad they have had that special person who they met early and married young and had sex just with them. 

Your husband wants to be faithful and keep the promises he made you when you married. You can't decide what he wants or needs, only he can. He doesn't want multiple partners, only you do.


----------



## oldshirt

Keepin-my-head-up said:


> As far as the talking to hubby about an open marriage,
> I think you started off on the wrong foot by telling him what YOU wanted out of an open marriage, and all the stuff YOU missed out on and want to experience.
> 
> Let him know what HE could get out of it, why you think it would benefit him and so forth.


There is no upside to this for him. The only thing he will get out of this is laundering her semen stained underwear the next morning while she's recovering in bed with a cold pack on her kootchie. 

The catch is he realizes this. 

I actually do not have a whole lot of sympathy for him because he knows she is dissatisfied and frustrated but yet he is not doing anything to address this. 

But at least he has the smarts enough to know not to just walk blindly into this because he thinks he will be able to get some strange himself. I will at least give him some credit there.


----------



## oldshirt

The reason I am being so harsh here, is when I was in the swinging lifestyle, I saw this couple showing up at the clubs and events all the time. 

It was these middle age couples who married young, raised their family and now her 38 year old libido was kicking in and she was shedding all of her "Good Girl" inhibitions and societal and religious programming and was wanting to see what else the world had out there. 

She was fit, all dolled up and dress to the hilt and had her game face on and was ready to party on. 

The guy on the other hand was 100lbs overweight, brown teeth, straggely beard with cigarette stains and food particles in and was in grungy jeans and overstretched t-shirts and they thought they were going to score with these hot chicks that had spent years working off the baby-bulges and had spent hours and hours doing their hair and make up and getting themselves looking hot. 

These lardazzes stood with their drink in their hands along the wall watching their hot wives dance and party it up with the other wives and the few guys who did put in the time and effort to polish themselves up. 

By the end of the night, these chicks were rubbing all up and down on each other and fingering each other and going down on each other and the guys who had taken the effort to get in shape and get polished up and learn a few pleasuring techniques were getting with one chick after another while these slugs were still standing in the shadows holding their drinks to their chests. 

Those women partied it up for awhile and got off on the attention and the validation and had their minds bent by finally having some orgasms whether it was by other men or other women. 

But that's a party crowd looking for extra thrills and fun. No one is really there looking for another mate and the dudes that do get the chicks, typically got A LOT of chicks so they had no desire to jump back into another monogamous marriage. 

What ended up often happening is either one of these guys was in a dead marriage at home and if the sex was good enough with one of these gals with the slugs that they did end up falling for each other and packing up and leaving to be together. 

Or what happened more often was these gals realized they were attractive and desirable and so they put up a Tinder profile or some kind of hook up profile and had hundreds of hits a day to choose from and within a matter weeks and sometimes even days, found someone that would have them and they were in as long as it takes to schedule a moving truck. 

This is a losing game for him if he doesn't shape up and step up to the plate sexually. There is nothing in it for him but picking her semen stained underwear off the floor the next day if he doesn't step up.


----------



## Captain Obvious

[/QUOTE]


Thatredhead said:


> That's false. He may be overweight but he rocks the dad bod and is bearded and tattooed. He's good looking with beautiful blue eyes and he gets hit on from time to time. He could pick up another woman if he wanted. Heck I have a friend who's made no secret of the fact that she wants him and its a running joke between us.
> 
> It's frustrating that he won't, because he easily could.


You posted earlier that he's morbidly obese, but now several posts later, he's rocking the dad bod. Anyone who is morbidly obese isn't rocking anything.


----------



## Thatredhead

Captain Obvious said:


>



You posted earlier that he's morbidly obese, but now several posts later, he's rocking the dad bod. Anyone who is morbidly obese isn't rocking anything.
[/QUOTE]
Morbid obesity is a medical term. He is overweight enough that it is effecting his health. He needs to lose about 100 lbs, mosty from the belly. Otherwise, he is a good looking man.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Thatredhead said:


> Morbid obesity is a medical term. He is overweight enough that it is effecting his health. He needs to lose about 100 lbs, mosty from the belly. Otherwise, he is a good looking man.


So whatever means you can cheat is the answer you'll give about him. Just start sleeping around and don't try to hide it. Then let him decide how he's going to deal with it.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Thatredhead said:


> _*To be brutally honest, my husband isn't very good in bed. He's done very quickly, just as soon as I get going. It's extremely frustrating and everytime we talk about it i get some version of 'It's not my fault you're just too good. So he blames his lack of control on me and never tries to fix it.
> 
> I want better sex, different sex, I want to explore and learn. I want to know what I don’t know. I still feel somewhat naive, to be honest.
> 
> For all the emphasis people put on sex, I feel it ought to better than it is. Surely there is something more that I am missing.*_


This is probably one of the biggest reasons he has no desire to get with other women - he *knows* he'll likely disappoint them as well, and that's not good for the ego. At least with you, he* knows* you'll accept sub-par sex and you aren't going anywhere, so he can continue to suck in bed with you (and not in a good way) and you'll still keep him around.

*He's EXTREMELY sensitive about any kind of criticism or suggestion. There's no point in bringing it up anymore. Nothing is ever his fault. He's also morbidly obese which is another problem he won't deal with. *

Good lord, that's another OBVIOUS reason he isn't open to this. What other woman would have him? Jeez.

Yet another obvious reason is that he doesn't want another man to show you what you've been missing all these years.

I'm sorry, but he sounds like a real dud who simply doesn't give a rat's ass about his bad performance in bed all these years, or how it continually leaves _you_ unsatisfied. But since he's a two-pump chump, it's obvious that HE'S being satisfied.


----------



## oldshirt

Captain Obvious said:


>



You posted earlier that he's morbidly obese, but now several posts later, he's rocking the dad bod. Anyone who is morbidly obese isn't rocking anything.
[/QUOTE]

A dad bod is having live handles and minimal muscular definition. I have a dad bod and I am a tidge under 6 ft and about 185-190lbs. 

Morbidly obese is fat. 

There are some dudes out there that dig BBWs as a fetish or a kink.

But to my knowledge, there isn’t a single woman that walks the earth that truly gets turned on by the sight of a morbidly obese man. 

There are women that may accept a man’s obesity due to the other things he brings to the table (and I doubt if a beard and tattoos quite cut it). But I doubt if any actually dig it and he would have to be bringing lot$ of other thing$ to the table if you get my drift.


----------



## Captain Obvious

Thatredhead said:


> You posted earlier that he's morbidly obese, but now several posts later, he's rocking the dad bod. Anyone who is morbidly obese isn't rocking anything.


Morbid obesity is a medical term. He is overweight enough that it is effecting his health. He needs to lose about 100 lbs, mosty from the belly. Otherwise, he is a good looking man.
[/QUOTE]

Basically his weight is a very contentious issue for you, its very unattractive to you or else you wouldn't have described him as morbidly obese. Yet somehow this middle-aged man that needs to lose at least a 100lbs is going to be able to go out and pull all these women.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Sfort said:


> _*Give him a blow job early in the evening. Go for sex later. He should last longer.*_


What a load of horse-****. He's the one making their sex life suck, not her!

Instead of overeating in his easy chair and watching Baywatch reruns all night, let *HIM* go jerk off somewhere so he doesn't disappoint _her_ for the 5,045th time.


----------



## oldshirt

Morbid obesity is a medical term. He is overweight enough that it is effecting his health. He needs to lose about 100 lbs, mosty from the belly. Otherwise, he is a good looking man.
[/QUOTE]

Ok I accept your response that he would be good looking if he were to lose 100lbs and I accept that he may be a good guy and a good husband and provider.

But here is the part you need to understand- any other woman that would be getting with him as part of an open marriage would only do so if he were good looking and good in bed NOW.

Use yourself as your own example - you are ok with him as a provider and father,, but he does not do it for you sexually or as a lover.

So what makes you think some other chick is going to want him for just a hook up????


----------



## Thatredhead

Or what happened more often was these gals realized they were attractive and desirable and so they put up a Tinder profile or some kind of hook up profile and had hundreds of hits a day to choose from and within a matter weeks and sometimes even days, found someone that would have them and they were in as long as it takes to schedule a moving truck. 
[/QUOTE]

I haven't used Tinder or POF but as a compromise, a few years back, hubs agreed to me posing nude online, just for kicks snd giggles. Ive maintained a website since then and it's done well. I’ve had plenty of offers but never taken up any. I let hubs read the comments on my photos and he likes it, he says because he knows he gets to sleep with me and they don't. 

The photos and website helped for awhile, but that desire for something different is still there. 
It angers me to some degree that he has this kind of control over me and my life choices.

I made a vow when I was a stupid., desperate, brainwashed kid. I didn't know how much I didn't know. I lucked out with an extraordinarily good man, who was also a dumb kid at the time. Neither of us knew anything about sex so if he's sexually screwed up, that's on me I guess. 

I don't want to blow up my life over sex. While this one issue is very important to me, it's not worth ruining my kids lives over. It would seem though that the consensus is that divorce is inevitable one way or another.


----------



## oldshirt

@Thatredhead many here are looking at this from a moralistic perspective and seeing it as adultery and others have been cheated on in the past and are seeing this from the perspective of your H.

I am looking at this from the perspective as someone who was very active in the swinging lifestyle for almost 10 years and have seen many couples just like you in many travels. 

As someone who has had much experience in consensual nonmonogamy, I can tell you that from my knowledge and experience, you are a runaway freight train barreling down the tracks headed for a train wreck of spectacular fashion. 

I have no moral or religious objections to swinging or open marriage or mutually consenting nonmonogamy.

However You have serious underlying issues in the very foundation of your sex life if not your marriage as well.

Whether you remain monogamous and stay in the marriage, or whether you do get with other people, you will both need to address these issues if your marriage is to survive at all either way. 

Otherwise you’re better off just reaching a fair and equitable divorce settlement and going on about your business.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Thatredhead said:


> _*I'm being completely honest. I love this man. He is part of me and I can't imagine a life without him. We literally grew up together.
> 
> I love him. He loves me. I'm just tired of mediocre boring sex and tired of knowing that there is more that I don't know.
> 
> I definitely don't want a plan B. I would never ever marry or get into a serious relationship again. Never ever. Once is enough for this lifetime. I can't emphasize enough how much being married has turned me off the whole institution.
> Quite the quandary isn't it? A woman who despises marriage wants to save the marriage she has, while still finding sexual fulfillment. It does seem like an impossibility, seeing it typed out like that.*_



I completely understand *exactly* what you're looking for.

The problem is, your obese husband has no desire to improve HIMSELF which would ultimately improve your sex life and many other aspects of your life in general. I've seen a ton of posts here telling you what YOU should do to fix this mess and I think that's utterly ridiculous.

He's a grown-ass MAN and it's time *he* cleaned his act up and started acting like one. Instead, he does NOTHING and continues to eat himself into obesity, caring nothing about the fact that it's unsatisfactory for YOU. If he was the 'great' man you keep *claiming* he is, then why the hell has he allowed this **** show to go on for so long, knowing you're unsatisfied and unhappy?

You're giving him far too much credit. He's not nearly the prize you think he is.


----------



## Captain Obvious

Thatredhead said:


> Or what happened more often was these gals realized they were attractive and desirable and so they put up a Tinder profile or some kind of hook up profile and had hundreds of hits a day to choose from and within a matter weeks and sometimes even days, found someone that would have them and they were in as long as it takes to schedule a moving truck.


I haven't used Tinder or POF but as a compromise, a few years back, hubs agreed to me posing nude online, just for kicks snd giggles. Ive maintained a website since then and it's done well. I’ve had plenty of offers but never taken up any. I let hubs read the comments on my photos and he likes it, he says because he knows he gets to sleep with me and they don't.

The photos and website helped for awhile, but that desire for something different is still there.
It angers me to some degree that he has this kind of control over me and my life choices.

I made a vow when I was a stupid., desperate, brainwashed kid. I didn't know how much I didn't know. I lucked out with an extraordinarily good man, who was also a dumb kid at the time. Neither of us knew anything about sex so if he's sexually screwed up, that's on me I guess.

I don't want to blow up my life over sex. While this one issue is very important to me, it's not worth ruining my kids lives over. It would seem though that the consensus is that divorce is inevitable one way or another.
[/QUOTE]

The consensus is your marriage won't survive an open marriage because one spouse doesn't want it. It's that simple. It wouldn't matter if your husband was 6'3" and chiseled from fine Italian marble, if one spouse doesn't want it, it'snot going to work. The weight and sex issues are something you and your husband really need to sit down and talk about. If he's going to get all emotional and doesn't want to put any real effort into change, then you have to decide what you want and what you can live with.


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## TexasMom1216

I don't fault the OP for wanting a better sex life. I DO fault her for wanting her husband to continue to pay her bills and wait in the wings while she does other dudes until she finds someone new to run away with. If your marriage is bad, divorce. This off-ramp nonsense is cruel and selfish.


----------



## Rob_1

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I completely understand *exactly* what you're looking for.
> 
> The problem is, your obese husband has no desire to improve HIMSELF which would ultimately improve your sex life and many other aspects of your life in general. I've seen a ton of posts here telling you what YOU should do to fix this mess and I think that's utterly ridiculous.
> 
> He's a grown-ass MAN and it's time *he* cleaned his act up and started acting like one. Instead, he does NOTHING and continues to eat himself into obesity, caring nothing about the fact that it's unsatisfactory for YOU. If he was the 'great' man you keep *claiming* he is, then why the hell has he allowed this **** show to go on for so long, knowing you're unsatisfied and unhappy?
> 
> You're giving him far too much credit. He's not nearly the prize you think he is.


She's not giving him any credit. She's saying that as a mea culpa justification.
The bottom line is the husband is a pathetic, beta dud dude. The wife's itch is getting stronger, he knows it, she knows it, but the dud won't do a thing other than saying no to open marriage.

Consequently, she'll either get along with his wishes and live a miserable life (which we all know that is not going to happens), cheat or divorce.

She doesn't want to cheat nor lose the marriage, but again, we all know that she'll go full steam ahead, with or without him.
Two things will happens if she does it and he's still against it.
1. When he finds out, the most likely scenario is he'll cry like a baby, becomes a reluctant cuckold (which we all know what that does to women perceptions of masculinity), and accept the situation.
2. He eventually finds out, get all upset about it. After some time he will divorce her. I doubt he'll leave, but is the second outcome if he doesn't go along with the open marriage.

Whichever way, is a lose-lose preposition for him. For her it really doesn't matter, she'll do it anyways, regardless of the crappy world that's coming their way. It's a done deal, it just taking a little longer to become effective.

OP is doing this because she already lost all respect for her pathetic husband. Therefore, she feels emboldened enough to say all this crap in her husband's face.

If I were her husband and she would have disrespected me that much in my face, that would have been that last day that she would have been my wife. I would have kicked her out my presence and life that same moment. But, of course, I'm not her pathetic, beta dud of a man she has.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> Or what happened more often was these gals realized they were attractive and desirable and so they put up a Tinder profile or some kind of hook up profile and had hundreds of hits a day to choose from and within a matter weeks and sometimes even days, found someone that would have them and they were in as long as it takes to schedule a moving truck.


I haven't used Tinder or POF but as a compromise, a few years back, hubs agreed to me posing nude online, just for kicks snd giggles. Ive maintained a website since then and it's done well. I’ve had plenty of offers but never taken up any. I let hubs read the comments on my photos and he likes it, he says because he knows he gets to sleep with me and they don't. 

The photos and website helped for awhile, but that desire for something different is still there.
It angers me to some degree that he has this kind of control over me and my life choices.

I made a vow when I was a stupid., desperate, brainwashed kid. I didn't know how much I didn't know. I lucked out with an extraordinarily good man, who was also a dumb kid at the time. Neither of us knew anything about sex so if he's sexually screwed up, that's on me I guess.

I don't want to blow up my life over sex. While this one issue is very important to me, it's not worth ruining my kids lives over. It would seem though that the consensus is that divorce is inevitable one way or another.
[/QUOTE]

You are in an unsustainable dynamic currently. Something has to give. 

How long are you really going to live a life of chronic frustration and deprivation “for the children?” 

If the kids are little and still need taken to school and chauffeured to all their activists and practices and games etc, you may be able to gut it out a few more years. But how long before they have their own licenses and their own lives and are doing their own thing even if they are technically still minors legally??

When my youngest got his school permit at 15 and could drive himself to his own stuff, I told my wife there is nothing stopping either one of us from walking out the door. The kids could take themselves to all their activities and they could drive themselves between our two houses and stay with whatever parent they wanted for the night. Do you want to remain married or not because “for the children” is no longer applicable. 

How old are your kids and how long before they can get themselves to and from their own affairs? You may need to still provide them food and shelter and sign legal documents for them, but once they have self transportation, “for the children” is no longer relevant and will no longer hold you back in a deprived, desperate state.


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## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> Or what happened more often was these gals realized they were attractive and desirable and so they put up a Tinder profile or some kind of hook up profile and had hundreds of hits a day to choose from and within a matter weeks and sometimes even days, found someone that would have them and they were in as long as it takes to schedule a moving truck.


I haven't used Tinder or POF but as a compromise, a few years back, hubs agreed to me posing nude online, just for kicks snd giggles. Ive maintained a website since then and it's done well. I’ve had plenty of offers but never taken up any. I let hubs read the comments on my photos and he likes it, he says because he knows he gets to sleep with me and they don't. 

The photos and website helped for awhile, but that desire for something different is still there. 
It angers me to some degree that he has this kind of control over me and my life choices.

I made a vow when I was a stupid., desperate, brainwashed kid. I didn't know how much I didn't know. I lucked out with an extraordinarily good man, who was also a dumb kid at the time. Neither of us knew anything about sex so if he's sexually screwed up, that's on me I guess. 

I don't want to blow up my life over sex. While this one issue is very important to me, it's not worth ruining my kids lives over. It would seem though that the consensus is that divorce is inevitable one way or another.
[/QUOTE]
Its not inevitable if you decide to remain faithful.


----------



## Lynnsnake

Thatredhead said:


> We've been married since high school, 20 years this year. I married young to escape a difficult home situation where I was raised in a restrictive religious cult. He was my first sexual experience. I didn't know anything about being a real wife or about real life and hated sex for a long time. After kids that changed. Now I have a sex drive and I'm interested in lots of men and feel cheated out of a fulfilling sex life because I was basically forced into an early marriage. I want everything I missed out on, everything that normal people have before they settle down. BUT...BIG BUT....I love my husband and don't want him to be hurt. We've spoken about this many times and he understands where I'm coming from. However he just can't bring himself to open up the marriage, even though I am more than willing for him to find other partners. I think it would be good for him to have the same experience, as we both missed out. He is completely uninterested. He wishes he could grant me what I want but he says he is worried about pregnancy and disease. I dont really believe that. I think it's male pride or some sort of cultural aversion.
> 
> I know everyone is going to say get a divorce but that's not what either of us wants. At least not yet. We have kids and a home and property and a life. I think it is ridiculous to blow that all up because of sex. There has to be middle ground, some agreement to be reached. I just don't know how to reconcile all of this.
> 
> Anyway, I've been reading here for awhile but haven't seen anything close to my situation.


You have done your job as a wife/mom. You deserve the simple pleasure of sex/orgasms. Life is short and your body is changing. Don’t waste time. Tell, don’t ask hub that you are looking for good sex. He can be a party to it or not. Lots of guys are there for you. find one ( or two or more ) you like , and try it. Whatever happens, live with it. Don’t get pregnant!.


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## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> I don't want to blow up my life over sex. While this one issue is very important to me, it's not worth ruining my kids lives over. It would seem though that the consensus is that divorce is inevitable one way or another.


Some of the other posters are going to lose their shyt over this, but I believe that an active and healthy sex life is a birth right to a sane, sober, consenting adult. Sexuality is the antithesis to death. When we are alive and healthy, we have an deep, instinctual yearning to merge with another(s). 

A lot of young people were indoctrinated by Purity Culture and religious programming in regards to their sexuality and were bullied into commitment and marriage with people they never really clicked with sexually. 

Now here you are as a full grown, self actualized and self determining human being and you are yoked to a fat blob who gets himself off and leaves you unsatisfied and won't do anything about it. And now you are coming into a stage of life where you care less what the neighbors think and you are free-thinking enough to realize the programming and indoctrination you had growing up was all BS and now you want to live the 2nd half of your life on more of your own terms - I get it. 

I give your husband no sympathy and no quarter here. He has a choice to make. He can either recognize and accept that you are a sexual being that has wants and needs as well and that you aren't just a vessel for him to make two pumps and bust his nut in, and that your wants and needs are just as valid. And with that recognition he can put down the frosties and donuts and get his fat azz to the gym or at least out onto the sidewalk for walk around the block for starters and he can learn to use his hands and tongue and whatever toys are available until he can get treatment for his PE and he can at least try to step up to the plate to please you,,,, and then have some discussions on where the role of monogamy vs nonmongamy etc will play in your lives going forward. 

Or he can watch you pack your bags move out when you find someone else willing and able to please you. 

Or he can launder your semen soaked underwear when you get home from your dates. 

HOWEVER what YOUR role in this needs to be is to up front and honest with him about what the stakes actually are. You played his game for 20 years and you were the good virgin bride and you changed diapers and cleaned up puke and you tolerated it when he was able to dig his winkie out from under the blubber rolls and finish himself in two pumps. 

..... Now it's your turn. You've checked off your to-do list. Now it's your turn and he has his options. 

He can hit the gym, see a therapist for the PE and learn to lick the chrome off the bumper of a '57 Chevy. 

He can watch you get all pretty'd up and walk out the door to go on your hook up dates in your little black dress, shiny red pedicure and high heels while he plays video games eating Hot Pockets on the couch. 

He can dump your azz and say you are immoral, cheating ho.

Or he can watch you load your stuff into the moving truck to move on to your next guy. 

The guy has put on 100lbs and isn't even willing to discuss the PE or how to please you in other ways or address the issues. 

I think you are at a point where an ultimatum and letting him choose between whatever is behind Door A or Door B or Door C is in order. 

Your responsibility is to make sure he is informed on exactly what it is behind each of those doors.


----------



## oldshirt

Lynnsnake said:


> You have done your job as a wife/mom. You deserve the simple pleasure of sex/orgasms. Life is short and your body is changing. Don’t waste time. Tell, don’t ask hub that you are looking for good sex. He can be a party to it or not. Lots of guys are there for you. find one ( or two or more ) you like , and try it. Whatever happens, live with it. Don’t get pregnant!.


We were cross posting at the same time. 

You said it much more succinctly than I did.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> Its not inevitable if you decide to remain faithful.


Not happily or healthily though. 

This is an unsustainable state. 

Yes she can suck it up and live with it. Millions do. And then she will become another one of these bitter, resentful, angry depressed, dried up old prunes that biches about everything in life but her cats and drowns her frustrations in boxes of wine and anti-depressants. 

And he will become fatter and lazier and will sit in his Archie Bunker chair, biching about the government while chugging his beer and letting pieces of his Hot Pockets get all gunked up in his beard until his fat rolls envelop his winkie so much that he pees on himself. 

That is what is in store for both of them if she simply decides to live with it.


----------



## Diana7

Lynnsnake said:


> You have done your job as a wife/mom. You deserve the simple pleasure of sex/orgasms. Life is short and your body is changing. Don’t waste time. Tell, don’t ask hub that you are looking for good sex. He can be a party to it or not. Lots of guys are there for you. find one ( or two or more ) you like , and try it. Whatever happens, live with it. Don’t get pregnant!.


How has she done her job as a wife and mum? By cheating and risking blowing up their lives? Yeh, great wife and mum that is. Being a wife and my doesn't just end, it's lifelong. Her children are still at home. She says she loves her husband yet here you are encouraging a wife and mum to cheat on her husband.🤦


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> Not happily or healthily though.
> 
> This is an unsustainable state.
> 
> Yes she can suck it up and live with it. Millions do. And then she will become another one of these bitter, resentful, angry depressed, dried up old prunes that biches about everything in life but her cats and drowns her frustrations in boxes of wine and anti-depressants.
> 
> And he will become fatter and lazier and will sit in his Archie Bunker chair, biching about the government while chugging his beer and letting pieces of his Hot Pockets get all gunked up in his beard until his fat rolls envelop his winkie so much that he pees on himself.
> 
> That is what is in store for both of them if she simply decides to live with it.


If course she can live happily and healthily if she realises what she has and stops hankering for what she doesn't have.
A complete change of attitude is needed. Being thankful for a good guy who loves her and who she lives. Children. A home.
Countless people would be so grateful for those things.
But no, she wants to risk loosing it all for sex with any old Tom, Fred or Harry who cares nothing for her.
Risk catching an Std to take home to hubby, risking his health and life. Getting pregnant with another man's child.
Talk about selfish. Talk about ungrateful.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Diana7 said:


> How has she done her job as a wife and mum? By cheating and risking blowing up their lives? Yeh, great wife and mum that is. Being a wife and my doesn't just end, it's lifelong. Her children are still at home. *She says she loves her husband *yet here you are encouraging a wife and mum to cheat on her husband.🤦


You may be wasting your time. She doesn't love him. She wants permission to find a new boyfriend before she dumps him and they're telling her what she wants to hear. This is what she came for, validation. She's also "done" with her kids and has no more interest in them. There's no point in arguing with her at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if she's not already cheating on him.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Diana7 said:


> If course she can live happily and healthily if she realises what she has and stops hankering for what she doesn't have.


I dunno about THIS, she has a very valid point that he doesn't care about sex or her sexual pleasure. It's no surprise, I'm sure their religious upbringing emphasized that women were lesser and her life doesn't matter. I don't think she should have to spend the rest of her life unsatisfied. I just don't think "open marriage" is a real thing or any kind of reasonable solution, it's for people to look for Plan A while hanging on to Plan B. I think she should leave her husband, honorably, and then she can go to all the swingers parties/orgies she wants.


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## ccpowerslave

BTW PE is totally fixable for most people with a trip to a drug store.

If you just want strange well… If my wife asked about opening up our marriage the act of asking would probably have me looking for the exit sign.


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## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> How has she done her job as a wife and mum? By cheating and risking blowing up their lives? Yeh, great wife and mum that is. Being a wife and my doesn't just end, it's lifelong. Her children are still at home. She says she loves her husband yet here you are encouraging a wife and mum to cheat on her husband.🤦


No one is telling her to go out and cheat. 

We are saying she is at a crossroads where she can either take action and make changes or she can resign herself to box wine, anti depressants and cleaning out cat boxes from 8 cats in the house while having to smell his urine stained clothes from peeing on himself because he can't get his penis out of the fat rolls anymore -

Or she is still young and vital enough she could get out, get with a fit and healthy man and have an actual active and satisfying sex life for the second half of her life. 

Either of those could occur with her husband as he too has a choice to make. He can either be her a stud or a dud. That choice is his. 

She is very close to the breaking point so an ultimatum to him is in order. She's going to go off the rails any day now if things don't change. 

I think she needs to tell it to him like it is and let him decide his own fate. 

He can continue down this path, keep putting on weight and he sit and bich about the government while eating Hot Pockets and pee on himself. 

Or He can step up and have lots of hot monkey sex and active sex life with a hot and horny gal. Maybe even a number of gals if he gets his act together and gets himself cleaned up. 

Which sounds like a better deal?


----------



## Thatredhead

I think there's still a misunderstanding here. I'm not looking for a new relationship or a guy to take my husband's place. If something were to happen to husband, or if he left, I would not replace him. I no longer believe monogamy is the natural human state and I don't want a new guy. Just a new lover/sex partner. I dont care how good a lover a man is, I don't see how that would make me want to do his laundry or cook his meals or meet his family. Once this marriage is done, I'm out off the relationship market. 

Sex does not equal emotional attachment for me. It's just a bodily function, like eating or sleeping. Necessary but nothing to get too excited over. Sucks when it hasn't happened in awhile or isn't done right, but still...just body parts doing their thing. 

In an ideal situation there would be a guy on the side to fill in where my husband lacks, and thats all. Just a side piece. I certainly don't need another husband or a boyfriend.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Never mind. I wonder if monogamy will become a “natural state” when the OP finds a new boyfriend.


----------



## drencrom

Thatredhead said:


> I think there's still a misunderstanding here. I'm not looking for a new relationship or a guy to take my husband's place. If something were to happen to husband, or if he left, I would not replace him. I no longer believe monogamy is the natural human state and I don't want a new guy. Just a new lover/sex partner. I dont care how good a lover a man is, I don't see how that would make me want to do his laundry or cook his meals or meet his family. Once this marriage is done, I'm out off the relationship market.
> 
> Sex does not equal emotional attachment for me. It's just a bodily function, like eating or sleeping. Necessary but nothing to get too excited over. Sucks when it hasn't happened in awhile or isn't done right, but still...just body parts doing their thing.
> 
> In an ideal situation there would be a guy on the side to fill in where my husband lacks, and thats all. Just a side piece. I certainly don't need another husband or a boyfriend.


You just laid out the reason why you shouldn't be married.

Get a divorce.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> If course she can live happily and healthily if she realises what she has and stops hankering for what she doesn't have.
> A complete change of attitude is needed. Being thankful for a good guy who loves her and who she lives. Children. A home.
> Countless people would be so grateful for those things.
> But no, she wants to risk loosing it all for sex with any old Tom, Fred or Harry who cares nothing for her.
> Risk catching an Std to take home to hubby, risking his health and life. Getting pregnant with another man's child.
> Talk about selfish. Talk about ungrateful.


That's actually very offensive. 

To someone who is being deprived of something that is important to them and important to their well being, to be told to suck it up and just be thankful for what they have is very offensive and insulting. 

The slaves of the American south were told to be thankful they were being given food, clothing, housing and a mate and all they were being asked for in return was to pick some cotton. 

What you are saying is that her sexuality and her personal wants and needs are irrelevant and unnecessary and that she should shut her pie hole and go make her grossly overweight husband a sammich. 

YOU are dismissing and disregarding her sexuality and her needs just as much as her H. 

We need to keep in mind here that she has tried to address her needs with her H and he has dismissed them and thought them irrelevant. He just keep on packing on the weight and keeps on two-stroking and is not doing anything to address her needs......... and now here you are telling her to be grateful for what?? That he pays some bills?? That he watches some TV shows with her (actually I'm just making that up. Maybe he doesn't even do that) 

The point is we want what we want and we each have our own individual needs that we need for our own well being and happiness. Other people do not get to tell us what we should be grateful for based on THEIR wants and needs. 

You have stated in these forums that you have a good and active sex life, so you have no authority to tell her that she should sacrifice and disregard her own wants and needs because he pays some bills.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> In an ideal situation there would be a guy on the side to fill in where my husband lacks, and thats all. Just a side piece. I certainly don't need another husband or a boyfriend.


(SIDEBAR): Shall we all start an office pool on how many PMs she will get from guys here on TAM begging pick me pick me!! 

Heck at this point I wish I could throw my hat into that ring LOL


----------



## TexasMom1216

oldshirt said:


> (SIDEBAR): Shall we all start an office pool on how many PMs she will get from guys here on TAM begging pick me pick me!!
> 
> Heck at this point I wish I could throw my hat into that ring LOL


She’ll be very popular here for sure. LOTS of people favor open marriages. I’m honestly shocked at how long it took before people told her she should pursue an open marriage.

There’s no reason (other than geography) why you can’t throw your hat in the ring.


----------



## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> You may be wasting your time. She doesn't love him. She wants permission to find a new boyfriend before she dumps him and they're telling her what she wants to hear. This is what she came for, validation. She's also "done" with her kids and has no more interest in them. There's no point in arguing with her at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if she's not already cheating on him.


Its very sad that one or two here are wanting to wreck their marriage by encouraging her to cheat. How sad is that. 🥺


----------



## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> She’ll be very popular here for sure. LOTS of people favor open marriages. I’m honestly shocked at how long it took before people told her she should pursue an open marriage.


Marriage isnt valued or respected here by a few that's for sure. I feel for her husband and children.
The thing is that you can't have an open marriage unless both agree, or one is pressured into it which is pretty common I am sure.


----------



## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> I dunno about THIS, she has a very valid point that he doesn't care about sex or her sexual pleasure. It's no surprise, I'm sure their religious upbringing emphasized that women were lesser and her life doesn't matter. I don't think she should have to spend the rest of her life unsatisfied. I just don't think "open marriage" is a real thing or any kind of reasonable solution, it's for people to look for Plan A while hanging on to Plan B. I think she should leave her husband, honorably, and then she can go to all the swingers parties/orgies she wants.


Agreed, or else focus her energies on her husband and working on their marriage.


----------



## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> She’ll be very popular here for sure. LOTS of people favor open marriages. I’m honestly shocked at how long it took before people told her she should pursue an open marriage.


I can't speak for others but I don't see it as encouraging her to pursue an open marriage or not to pursue an open marriage. 
My point is if she wants to remain in this marriage whether she opens it or not, she is going to have to address their own marital and sexual issues regardless. 

If she was wanting to walk away, then it wouldn't matter. Just divorce the poor sap and go on your merry way. 

But if she really is wanting to remain in that marriage, then those issues will need to be addressed either way whether she gets with other dudes or not. 

What I see as her responsibility here is to be upfront and honest with him about what her issues are and what her goals are and to fully inform him of her intents and what each option will have in store. That way he can make an informed decision on what will be best for him. 

She has a right to her own sexuality and her own sexual agency. But she does have an obligation to be honest about it so he can decide if that will be acceptable to him or not. 

She has already done that to an extent and he said no. But does he realize that she is going to be getting with other dudes soon with or without his blessing anyway? 

She really does hold all the cards on this one. His choice basically boils down to -

- be a cuckold and watch her get dressed up for her dates and take care of the household the next day while she recovers and lays in bed with an ice pack on her jay-jay. 

- dump her and possibly pay her spousal support to foot the bill for her activies after she's gone and then sit at home watching TV and eating Hot Pockets.

- Or get himself to the gym, loose 100lbs, get some bedroom skillz and possibly join her down at the ol' swingerz club and possibly score some tail himself. 

That's basically the only choices he has.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Diana7 said:


> Its very sad that one or two here are wanting to wreck their marriage by encouraging her to cheat. How sad is that. 🥺


Well, it’s also not true that he should neglect her forever. There are two people in this marriage who are failing. I disagree with her choice to “fix” it but she isn’t wrong to want a husband who cares about her needs.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> Its very sad that one or two here are wanting to wreck their marriage by encouraging her to cheat. How sad is that. 🥺


No one is encouraging her to cheat. 

And they have already wrecked what you consider a marriage before she even got here. We are just dealing with what pieces remain now. 

This comes down to "ought" vs "is."

You are saying what their marriage 'ought' to be. Some of us are saying these are your options based on how it 'is' right now.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> That's actually very offensive.
> 
> To someone who is being deprived of something that is important to them and important to their well being, to be told to suck it up and just be thankful for what they have is very offensive and insulting.
> 
> The slaves of the American south were told to be thankful they were being given food, clothing, housing and a mate and all they were being asked for in return was to pick some cotton.
> 
> What you are saying is that her sexuality and her personal wants and needs are irrelevant and unnecessary and that she should shut her pie hole and go make her grossly overweight husband a sammich.
> 
> YOU are dismissing and disregarding her sexuality and her needs just as much as her H.
> 
> We need to keep in mind here that she has tried to address her needs with her H and he has dismissed them and thought them irrelevant. He just keep on packing on the weight and keeps on two-stroking and is not doing anything to address her needs......... and now here you are telling her to be grateful for what?? That he pays some bills?? That he watches some TV shows with her (actually I'm just making that up. Maybe he doesn't even do that)
> 
> The point is we want what we want and we each have our own individual needs that we need for our own well being and happiness. Other people do not get to tell us what we should be grateful for based on THEIR wants and needs.
> 
> You have stated in these forums that you have a good and active sex life, so you have no authority to tell her that she should sacrifice and disregard her own wants and needs because he pays some bills.


People do this all the time, because many understand that its not all about us and what we want. And Pur-lease don't compare this situation to the slave trade. Good grief. 
She has responsibilities, she has children, she made promises to her husband, she is blessed in so many ways. If she was more thankful instead of complaining about the 10% she thinks she doesn't have she would be so much happier. 
Its all about attitude and what we choose to dwell on and think about. She thinks she would be happier sleeping around, its highly unlikely she will. 

I expect she will be back here in a few years complaining that she has lost her marriage due to her infidelity, and what should she do. Of course she will loose her marriage is she cheats. Its light night following day. 



If she must cheat then I hope she sets her husband free to allow him to be with a faithful women who truly loves him.


----------



## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> Well, it’s also not true that he should neglect her forever. There are two people in this marriage who are failing. I disagree with her choice to “fix” it but she isn’t wrong to want a husband who cares about her needs.


I don't think she is trying to "fix" the marriage. 

I think she is just wanting to feel alive and wanted and desired and to have some passion and orgasms and be like a living, breathing, adult woman. 

I think she wants to experience her own sexuality on her own terms and for her own enjoyment and she is now realizing that he won't provide that. 

That's not fixing the marriage or the sexual relationship. That is realizing she barking up the wrong tree and is starting to look towards other trees.


----------



## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> Well, it’s also not true that he should neglect her forever. There are two people in this marriage who are failing. I disagree with her choice to “fix” it but she isn’t wrong to want a husband who cares about her needs.


Not sure he is neglecting her, he just isn't giving her exactly what she wants. Plus remember we dont have his side of the marriage here. I doubt she would be content even if their sex life was better because she thinks that having sex with lots of other guys will make her happy. Its sad actually because she is heading for a car crash.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Diana7 said:


> Not sure he is neglecting her, he just isn't giving her exactly what she wants. Plus remember we dont have his side of the marriage here. I doubt she would be content even if their sex life was better *because she thinks that having sex with lots of other guys will make her happy*. Its sad actually because she is heading for a car crash.


Good point. She stated she no longer wants monogamy. She’s also stated he’s “morbidly obese” (and therefore disgusting to her) but could get other girls if he tried.


----------



## Openminded

TexasMom1216 said:


> She’ll be very popular here for sure. LOTS of people favor open marriages. I’m honestly shocked at how long it took before people told her she should pursue an open marriage.
> 
> There’s no reason (other than geography) why you can’t throw your hat in the ring.


There are people who register and never post but yet sign in frequently— maybe to PM a mutual friend or find new friends. My thought has always been that this is used by some as a hookup site (we had a poster many years ago who did that successfully and I don’t think he was the only one). People have all sorts of agendas when they register — besides just putting their story out there.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> People do this all the time, because many understand that its not all about us and what we want. And Pur-lease don't compare this situation to the slave trade. Good grief.
> She has responsibilities, she has children, she made promises to her husband, she is blessed in so many ways. If she was more thankful instead of complaining about the 10% she thinks she doesn't have she would be so much happier.
> Its all about attitude and what we choose to dwell on and think about. She thinks she would be happier sleeping around, its highly unlikely she will.
> 
> I expect she will be back here in a few years complaining that she has lost her marriage due to her infidelity, and what should she do. Of course she will loose her marriage is she cheats. Its light night following day.
> 
> 
> 
> If she must cheat then I hope she sets her husband free to allow him to be with a faithful women who truly loves him.


she hasn't mentioned the children's ages. If they are all under 12, I'll give you a little latitude. 

If they are all in their teens and don't have any developmental delays, I consider that a non issue. 

And as far as promises - WHAT ABOUT HIS PROMISES TO HER????? 

Do you think putting on 100lbs of blubber and never satisfying her in 20 years is keeping his vows???? Is refusing to address his sexual dysfunction and not addressing how to please her acting in good faith on his end??? 

If he was bust'n his arse at the gym and living on rice cakes and chicken breasts and going to doctors getting treatment for his PE and reading books and articles and pulling up youtube videos on how to learn some pleasurable techniques and buying vibrators and sex aids etc and she was still wanting a hallpass to get out and bang other dudes- I'd say to kick the skanky ho to the curb...... or take her up on her offer and go to the party too and get with other chicks as well...... I mean she ain't being selfish here and she is willing to let him have the same freedom and flexibility that she wants. 

But no, he's not doing any of that. 

This is not all on her. Maybe she's not saying enough Hail Marys or praying hard enough for you or devoting herself enough to the hearth and home for some here, I get that. 

But her sexuality matters too. Her wants and needs are just as valid as everyone else's. 

Your husband isn't 100lbs overweight and can't find his winkie and doesn't refuse to try to please you. Sexuality may only be 10% of a marriage when it is good and mutually satisfying. 

But when one is being deprived and chronically frustrated and dissatisfied, it pollutes and degrades everything else in the relationship.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> Its sad actually because she is heading for a car crash.


No, at this current state they are both headed for a spectacular train wreck.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> she hasn't mentioned the children's ages. If they are all under 12, I'll give you a little latitude.
> 
> If they are all in their teens and don't have any developmental delays, I consider that a non issue.
> 
> And as far as promises - WHAT ABOUT HIS PROMISES TO HER?????
> 
> Do you think putting on 100lbs of blubber and never satisfying her in 20 years is keeping his vows???? Is refusing to address his sexual dysfunction and not addressing how to please her acting in good faith on his end???
> 
> If he was bust'n his arse at the gym and living on rice cakes and chicken breasts and going to doctors getting treatment for his PE and reading books and articles and pulling up youtube videos on how to learn some pleasurable techniques and buying vibrators and sex aids etc and she was still wanting a hallpass to get out and bang other dudes- I'd say to kick the skanky ho to the curb...... or take her up on her offer and go to the party too and get with other chicks as well...... I mean she ain't being selfish here and she is willing to let him have the same freedom and flexibility that she wants.
> 
> But no, he's not doing any of that.
> 
> This is not all on her. Maybe she's not saying enough Hail Marys or praying hard enough for you or devoting herself enough to the hearth and home for some here, I get that.
> 
> But her sexuality matters too. Her wants and needs are just as valid as everyone else's.
> 
> Your husband isn't 100lbs overweight and can't find his winkie and doesn't refuse to try to please you. Sexuality may only be 10% of a marriage when it is good and mutually satisfying.
> 
> But when one is being deprived and chronically frustrated and dissatisfied, it pollutes and degrades everything else in the relationship.


I am not RC. We don't do hail Mary's of course(but you know that) and why should I want her to pray when she isn't a Christian?. Come on now. 
What we do know is that cheating is a horrible thing. There is no excuse ever. If she wants casual sex then at least have the decency to leave and give her husband the chance to find a faithful wife. 
She wants it all though. Sleeping around with a husband waiting around at home.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> No, at this current state they are both headed for a spectacular train wreck.


Caused by her cheating.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> I am not RC. We don't do hail Mary's of course(but you know that) and why should I want her to pray when she isn't a Christian?. Come on now.
> What we do know is that cheating is a horrible thing. There is no excuse ever. If she wants casual sex then at least have the decency to leave and give her husband the chance to find a faithful wife.
> She wants it all though. Sleeping around with a husband waiting around at home.


They each make their choices and have to sleep in the beds they have made (pun not intended..... well ok, maybe a little bit intended) 

She's a full grown women with agency and sexual autonomy. She can choose to sneak around and cheat,,, she can choose to tell him up front she is going to get with other men against his wishes. 

She is free to make those choices but she is not from from the consequences and ramifications of those choices. 

He also has free choice and agency. He knows she is sexually dissatisfied with him. He knows he's fat. He knows he's a two-stroker and he knows she's wanting to get with other men. 

He can chose to look the other way and live as a cuckold. 

He can choose to dump her arse. 

He can choose to try to score some extra himself (he won't succeed in his current state, but he could at least try)

He can choose to put away the donuts and Moonpies and hit the gym and seek treatment for his sexual dysfunction and he can put in some effort to try to please her. 

Again, each of those choices will have its own set of pros and cons and risks vs rewards. He too will be free to make his choice but not free from the costs, ramifications and consequences. 

Neither of them are innocent victims.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> Caused by her cheating.


And contributed to by his lack of action and lack of concern for her needs.


----------



## kh4OffRoad

Thatredhead said:


> To be brutally honest, my husband isn't very good in bed. He's done very quickly, just as soon as I get going. It's extremely frustrating and everytime we talk about it i get some version of 'It's not my fault you're just too good. So he blames his lack of control on me and never tries to fix it.
> 
> I want better sex, different sex, I want to explore and learn. I want to know what I don’t know. I still feel somewhat naive, to be honest.
> 
> For all the emphasis people put on sex, I feel it ought to better than it is. Surely there is something more that I am missing.


IF this is the only hang up that you really have... I have real world experience with this, and I have some advise. They make a medicine for ED that works for an hour (not a pill), regardless of male O. If things are that bad he can easily go 2X on it. once for him, the second for you. However you will need to seek out a real Dr. but it can be done, I have experience with it.


----------



## Married but Happy

I suggest you follow some of the suggestions that may help you husband learn to please you as he should. If he won't do anything either with you or on his own, then divorce may be your best option. Of course, if he will do nothing, and you then present him with divorce papers, he may change his mind. Right now he has no motivation to change - your happiness is not enough, apparently. So, it may take the prospect of divorce to get him to work on his issues, or agree to opening the marriage. I've had an open marriage for 22 years, and they can work well - with some thoughtfulness, etc. It probably won't provide _him _with any benefit (aside from staying married!) unless he first deals with his issues and wants to pursue it as well.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> They each make their choices and have to sleep in the beds they have made (pun not intended..... well ok, maybe a little bit intended)
> 
> She's a full grown women with agency and sexual autonomy. She can choose to sneak around and cheat,,, she can choose to tell him up front she is going to get with other men against his wishes.
> 
> She is free to make those choices but she is not from from the consequences and ramifications of those choices.
> 
> He also has free choice and agency. He knows she is sexually dissatisfied with him. He knows he's fat. He knows he's a two-stroker and he knows she's wanting to get with other men.
> 
> He can chose to look the other way and live as a cuckold.
> 
> He can choose to dump her arse.
> 
> He can choose to try to score some extra himself (he won't succeed in his current state, but he could at least try)
> 
> He can choose to put away the donuts and Moonpies and hit the gym and seek treatment for his sexual dysfunction and he can put in some effort to try to please her.
> 
> Again, each of those choices will have its own set of pros and cons and risks vs rewards. He too will be free to make his choice but not free from the costs, ramifications and consequences.
> 
> Neither of them are innocent victims.


Its she who wants to cheat not him.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> And contributed to by his lack of action and lack of concern for her needs.


The decision to cheat is all on her, even if they had good sex she has still intimated that she wants to experience other men.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> Its she who wants to cheat not him.





Diana7 said:


> The decision to cheat is all on her, even if they had good sex she has still intimated that she wants to experience other men.


Let's clarify and stick to the topic as presented. She does NOT want to cheat. She wants an open marriage. She wants to get with other men for sex and fun but remain married to her H. 

If she wanted to cheat she could download Tinder and hook up with the hunkiest beefcake before the sun goes down tonight. She wouldn't have to go through any of this and it wouldn't take any effort or any rejection. 

And yes, even if he transformed himself into sexy stud, she may still want to get with others. 

But if he remains the slug that he is now, she is 100% guaranteed of wanting to get with others and will probably do it anyway even if he says no. Once she starts getting with hotter guys, she will likely not want him even touching her any more. And the chances are overwhelming that if she does find some guy that can make her toes curl up into her backside, that she will dump the H and leave anyway. 

If he gets in shape and gets his dysfunction treated, he at least has a chance to have a sex life with her and then assuming they do split up, at least he will be able to find someone else. 

There is no upside to him remaining in this state or maintaining the status quo of this marriage. It is destined to fail regardless if she gets with other dudes or not. 

And there is no downside to him shaping up and getting his dysfunction treated.


----------



## Rob_1

oldshirt said:


> And there is no downside to him shaping up and getting his dysfunction treated.


Yes, but sadly, apparently, based on OP description of things with him, the most likely scenario is him doing nothing for his betterment. 

So as things stands, it not longer matters, she is going to **** men regardless, and him will either accept it or get out.


----------



## oldshirt

Rob_1 said:


> Yes, but sadly, apparently, based on OP description of things with him, the most likely scenario is him doing nothing for his betterment.
> 
> So as things stands, it not longer matters, she is going to **** men regardless, and him will either accept it or get out.


Yeah, that is what it boils down to. 

he can either passively accept it or bury his head in the sand and let the chips fall wherever they may (my bet is she would ultimately leave once she finds someone better,,,,, which would be sooner rather than later) 

He can actively embrace it, lose the weight, fix his sexual issues and possibly even have some fun with it himself. There is a possibility that if he really transforms, she may dig him enough that she decides not to get with other dudes anymore. It may not be a strong possibility, but it is possible nonetheless. 

Or he can dump her. 

If he dumps her or she dumps him, his chances of getting with someone else in his current state is nill, unless he can find some desperate chick that is 100lbs overweight and sexually dysfunctional as well. 

If he can shape himself up now, he stands a chance, however small, of salvaging this marriage.. but even if it can't or shouldn't be saved, he would at least stand a good chance of finding someone else if he were a healthy weight and sexually functional. 

As far as I'm concerned the ball is in his court here and is on him. she has pleaded her case and was up front about her wishes. He can accept it or tell her to ****** off.


----------



## TexasMom1216

oldshirt said:


> If he gets in shape and gets his dysfunction treated, he at least has a chance to have a sex life with her


Hopefully if he gets in shape and gets his dysfunction treated, he will find a sex life with a wife who loves and respects him, and values him, and not be content with whatever crumbs she's willing to toss his way. No one deserves to be someone's Plan B.


----------



## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> Hopefully if he gets in shape and gets his dysfunction treated, he will find a sex life with a wife who loves and respects him, and values him, and not be content with whatever crumbs she's willing to toss his way. No one deserves to be someone's Plan B.


If that is what he wants then yes. 

The thing is he has put himself into this position by putting on 100lbs and letting his dysfunction go on untreated for decades. He knows he's not in her league and knows he can't please her sexually in this state. And he knows he can not replace her with someone as physically attractive and as sexually oriented as her. 

If he were to try to go out into the swinging/open marriage market now, he is guaranteed of being shot down with more smoke and flames than the space shuttle. 

If he was to go out into the singles dating market, he could probably eventually get with someone but she also would be morbidly obese and sexually dysfunctional. 

If he stays as he is, his choices are to be cuckolded to his face, cheated on behind his back, or dumped for someone(s) else. He's simply punching out of his class at the moment. 

If he wants to be with her however, he is going to have to get up into her league. 

And if what you are saying is true and he wants to find someone else that is innately monogamous and wants to have a monogamous relationship with him, then he will still need to address his issues or the next chick will either be 300lbs and sexually dysfunctional or if she has any semblance of a sexdrive, she will just pack up and leave if he doesn't fix himself up.


----------



## TexasMom1216

oldshirt said:


> If he wants to be with her however, he is going to have to get up into her league.


I have no idea why on earth he would want to be with her. She may be pretty on the outside but there's a whole bunch of us out there who care about more than just looks, believe it or not. 

The idea that someone is "innately monogamous" is absurd. But that is a threadjack.


----------



## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> The idea that someone is "innately monogamous" is absurd. .


I don't think it's absurd at all. I think a lot of people are fundamentally monogamous. Most choose to live monogamous lifestyles even though they may want get with others at times. But I think lots of people are fundamentally monogamous. I'm surprised that you would think that notion absurd.


----------



## TexasMom1216

oldshirt said:


> I don't think it's absurd at all. I think a lot of people are fundamentally monogamous. Most choose to live monogamous lifestyles even though they may want get with others at times. But I think lots of people are fundamentally monogamous. *I'm surprised that you would think that notion absurd*.


OK, seriously, it's a threadjack so I don't want to cause trouble. But I laughed when you posted the bold above. 😂 😏 We've had enough exchanges about this. Really? You're surprised? Come on, you're not surprised... 😉😉😉😏😁 We don't need to talk about it here, it doesn't help the OP. I don't think anything but divorce would really help her. She had her youth stolen by a religious cult and finally sees some light. I get that it's scary to be a grownup, but I bet she can handle it. She doesn't love him, she loves stability and a plan B. She has oats to sow, she should leave him and join whatever swingers club/open marriage/orgy groups she can find and go wild.


----------



## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> OK, seriously, it's a threadjack so I don't want to cause trouble. But I laughed when you posted the bold above. 😂 😏 We've had enough exchanges about this. Really? You're surprised? Come on, you're not surprised... 😉😉😉😏😁 We don't need to talk about it here, it doesn't help the OP. I don't think anything but divorce would really help her. She had her youth stolen by a religious cult and finally sees some light. I get that it's scary to be a grownup, but I bet she can handle it. She doesn't love him, she loves stability and a plan B. She has oats to sow, she should leave him and join whatever swingers club/open marriage/orgy groups she can find and go wild.


I guess I'm somehow not following you or something is going over my head or something. I think most people would describe themselves as monogamous so I'm not sure where you are coming from. 

I don't necessarily disagree with you that she should probably divorce and move on with her own life, but I'm not getting why you think that some people being naturally monogamous is absurd.


----------



## TexasMom1216

oldshirt said:


> I guess I'm somehow not following you or something is going over my head or something. I think most people would describe themselves as monogamous so I'm not sure where you are coming from.
> 
> I don't necessarily disagree with you that she should probably divorce and move on with her own life, but I'm not getting why you think that some people being naturally monogamous is absurd.


Oh ok, I see what you're saying. Saying that some people are "naturally monogamous" implies that some people are not. That monogamy isn't a choice that adults make out of respect and love but something that one just feels, like we're all The Dude, and it's all just your opinion, man. It's absurd. Some people are faithful to their spouses. Some people are not. Regardless, the OP needs to leave her husband.


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## Thatredhead

I dont think monogamy is the natural default for humans. It is a cultural and societal norm for much of humanity now, but it wasn't always. It doesn't make biological sense for humans to have one lifelong mate. Monogamy is a choice, most people just don't realize it's being made for them without their consent or knowledge by our current social and religious conditioning.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

Thatredhead said:


> I'm not happy to lie or cheat, I want to avoid that. I suck at lying and I'm too clueless to cheat properly. I want everything open and above board with all parties. Surely this kind of arrangement can't be that off the wall. It seems perfectly rational and logical to me.


The problem with this rationale is that you won't have any trouble ticking notches in the bed post. Any attractive woman looking to get laid is going to get laid. The way you describe him, he'll need to pay for it to get it. That's not an open marriage. That's a one sided hotwife/cuckold relationship.Only a fool would agree to such an arrangement. It sounds like you need to either fix him or divorce..


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## Tested_by_stress

Thatredhead said:


> That sounds amazing! I don't think there's anything around here like that, maybe in Toronto? I'd be very interested in something like that, I don't think my husband would. Maybe the observing....


You'd be suprised what goes on in your own backyard. It goes on in much smaller locales than Toronto.


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## TexasMom1216

Thatredhead said:


> I dont think monogamy is the natural default for humans. It is a cultural and societal norm for much of humanity now, but it wasn't always. It doesn't make biological sense for humans to have one lifelong mate. Monogamy is a choice, most people just don't realize it's being made for them without their consent or knowledge by our current social and religious conditioning.


🙄 Wow. Careful with this line of thinking, women lose. For most of human history, men gathered "wives" they way they gathered cows, and we had exactly that much significance to them. We were completely interchangeable and had zero human rights, and this is going on TODAY in more parts of the world than not. This chatter is all fun and games until they put a ring in your nose and brand a number on your ass. "Humans aren't monogamous" is just code for "I want to cheat until I find someone I really like." And if someone will cheat with you, they'll cheat ON you. You need to divorce your husband. I feel awful for what you've been through, I really do, but you're a mess and need to get out in the world and see what you're (not) missing, then find a man of YOUR choosing and see how "non-monogamous" you really are.


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## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> I dont think monogamy is the natural default for humans. It is a cultural and societal norm for much of humanity now, but it wasn't always. It doesn't make biological sense for humans to have one lifelong mate. Monogamy is a choice, most people just don't realize it's being made for them without their consent or knowledge by our current social and religious conditioning.


I agree with you and have said the same thing almost verbatim here many times.

However I do believe that some/many people are naturally monogamous regardless of their upbringing or religious programming. 

And even if a deep primal part of us is nonmonogamous, what separates us from the beasts in the field is that we can choose what sexual paradigm is best for us.

And if we consciously weigh the pros and cons and decide that monogamous is best for us... wouldn’t that still be “innately monogamous?” 

So I agree that much of our primal programming is on the nonmonogamous end of the spectrum, but the humanist side of us often choose that monogamy is the better option for us. 

And just for background so you know where I am coming from, I have spent much of my life and about 10 years of my marriage as nonmonogamous and at times highly involved in the swinging lifestyle. So I’m not a bible beater or a finger pointer where it comes to adult consensual sexual behavior. 

I believe each individual needs to determine what sexual paradigm is best for them and if two people are going to be together as a couple, then that couple will need to determine what will work best for them as a couple. 

....but at the end of the day, the individual will have to make the final call on what will work for them and what won’t. 

Only you can decide what will be best for you. 

And only your H can decide what will be best for him.


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## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> . I feel awful for what you've been through, I really do, but you're a mess and need to get out in the world and see what you're (not) missing, then find a man of YOUR choosing and see how "non-monogamous" you really are.


I disagree with 92.37% of what Texasmom says including most of what she said above. 

But every now and then she hits one out of the ballpark and this statement above is one of them. 

I’m not saying that this is what will surely happen.

But it’s very possible. Perhaps even likely at some point. 

You were brain washed and programmed to do what other people wanted out of you.

Now you’ve reached a point in your life where you are self actualized and self determined enough to choose your own path.

Perhaps noncommitted, nonmonogamous sexual adventurism is the best path for you. 

But I do if one is to be truly open minded to a variety of possibilities, then must be open to the possibility that if you meet someone of your choosing that checks off enough of your boxes and trips your trigger well enough, you may be good to go with one person. 

And if you find someone that also has similar world views and temperaments you may even embrace nonmonogamy together and do 3somes and 4somes and orgies etc together as a couple. 

And you don’t have to pick up each other’s socks and underwear off the floor or fix each other’s meals or even live together or be married to do that. 

As consenting adults, you choose your own partner(s) and your own living situation and your own relationship paradigms.


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## Rob_1

Humans are NOT monogamous by nature, never have, never will. If we were monogamous there wouldn't be infidelity within our species. What we do have is deep cultural influences with checks and balances, developed over thousands of years, by all the various cultures that have existed and exist to this day. We CHOOSE TO BE monogamous.

A big percentage of Humans cannot stay monogamous though, so after a period of time they cheat. Then they have to confront those checks and balances as prescribed in each society's cultural environment.


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## TexasMom1216

Edited to remove a comment I can't back up with history.



oldshirt said:


> You were brain washed and programmed to do what other people wanted out of you.


OP, you have never been given agency over your own life. As is the case with most religions, the life of the woman is pre-determined and completely under the control of men and women have zero say in what happens to them or how they are treated. Their needs are utterly and completely unimportant. (FWIW, that happens outside of religion too, which is why there are so many men on here telling you that cheating is "natural.") You suddenly see a light at the end of this tunnel, and like me when I went to college, you are about to GO WILD. I completely understand. I really hope you pause long enough to realize this "open marriage" fallacy is nonsense, it's just an excuse to be single while someone sits at home as your Plan B. You don't like your life right now. You may think marriage is the reason, but likely, it's the way you learned about marriage and what marriage has done to you over the past years. You never got to figure out who you were, and it's wrong of anyone to ask you to NOT find that out. I'm not sure an endless parade of men is the way to do it, but we have to make our own mistakes. My point is, you can't say WHAT you want yet, because this is the first time in your life you ever had any choice.

I also encourage you not to take the advice that after 15-16 years old you're "done" with your children. They're not going to appreciate that and in a few years when the dust settles and all of those hot sex parties lose their sparkle and shine and you realize how hollow meaningless sex is, you're going to turn around and they will want nothing to do with you. They are not pets, they're people with brains, even though they're children now. If you humiliate their father and abandon them, they will not forget and they are under no obligation to forgive. There are real world consequences for going wild, I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying proceed with caution. These open marriage guys will tell you it's all romance and orgasms, but they're just telling you that to try to be one of the ones you "go wild" with. I tell you that not to moralize, I'm not a religious type, but as an old woman who had a (short) period of her early twenties where I was working out all MY emotional issues from my religious upbringing and my abusive father and I was promiscuous and had "casual sex." It's not the glory these men trying to get you into bed are telling you. Be careful, it tends to leave a mark.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Thatredhead said:


> I dont think monogamy is the natural default for humans. It is a cultural and societal norm for much of humanity now, but it wasn't always. It doesn't make biological sense for humans to have one lifelong mate. Monogamy is a choice, most people just don't realize it's being made for them without their consent or knowledge by our current social and religious conditioning.


All true, but it doesn't change the fact that you and your husband made a vow to be monogamous. You asked to change the vows and he said no. You should honor that or decide this is something you can no longer live with and divorce. No one here is going to give you their blessing to go find meaningless sex outside your marriage when your husband doesn't want that. 

What are you getting at with monogamy being imposed on people without their consent. Everyone knows they are choosing to be monogamous or not. I for one love it and wouldn't want it any other way for me.


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## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> What are you getting at with monogamy being imposed on people without their consent.


She grew up in a religious family. Based on her story, she had no say in her life at all. So in this case, marriage WAS forced on her. I still don't think she should cheat, I think she should leave, but her situation IS unique.


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## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> If I followed what oldshirt advises, I would have already sent my husband to a swingers party/orgy


Since my very first post on this thread, I have been advising to address their marital and sexual issues and his health status and PE.

Can you please explain to me how that in any way shape or form has anything to do with sending your husband to a swinger party/orgy.


----------



## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> I also encourage you not to take the advice that after 15-16 years old you're "done" with your children. They're not going to appreciate that and in a few years when the dust settles and all of those hot sex parties lose their sparkle and shine and you realize how hollow meaningless sex is, you're going to turn around and they will want nothing to do with you. They are not pets, they're people with brains, even though they're children now. If you humiliate their father and abandon them, they will not forget and they are under no obligation to forgive.


Neither the OP or anyone else has said a word about abandoning the children. 

Believe it or not, people can live their life whether they are monogamous, in open marriage or divorced without abandoning their children. 

People can live their life while still maintaining a parental relationship with their children.


----------



## TexasMom1216

oldshirt said:


> Can you please explain to me how that in any way shape or form has anything to do with sending your husband to a swinger party/orgy.


Well that's me bringing up old stuff. The technical term for it is "threadjack." So I will stop here.


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## oldshirt

@TexasMom1216 once again you are talking about stuff that has no bearing on the topic and you are saying that people have said things that no one has actually said or even implied. 

If you are going to continue to say that people are saying these things, you need to produce actual quotes and back it up.


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## TexasMom1216

This you?


oldshirt said:


> From an evolutionary/biological standpoint, you have raised children once they are able to feed, clothe and toilet themselves and no longer need 24/7 hands on care.


This happens at what, 9-10 years old? So from the same biological standpoint that says you should have sex with every person you want to all the time with no limits, these kids are grown and on their own.

And no, you're not having sex parties in your house and an endless parade of anonymous strangers through your bedroom while "parenting." Not a thing.


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## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> Well that's me bringing up old stuff. The technical term for it is "threadjack." So I will stop here.


No, it’s not only a threadjack but an actual lie when you say that people are saying things that no one has actually said. 

If you are going to say that people are advising these things then produce actual quotes of them saying it.


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## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> This you?
> 
> This happens at what, 9-10 years old? So from the same biological standpoint that says you should have sex with every person you want to all the time with no limits, these kids are grown and on their own.
> 
> And no, you're not having sex parties in your house and an endless parade of anonymous strangers through your bedroom while "parenting." Not a thing.


No, it means they no longer need 24/7 hands on care for their livelihood.

And again you are putting false words into people’s mouths. No one has said anything about parades of anonymous strangers through the house. 

Again, people can live their lives and still maintain a functional parental relationship with their children. 

One does not need to abandon children in order to have a life and no one has suggested that she do. 

Please make an attempt to at least appear to try to stay on topic and not dream up your own agendas to put in other people’s mouths.


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## Rob_1

TexasMom1216 said:


> So in this case, marriage WAS forced on her.


I did not read that way. This is what she said:


QUOTE="Thatredhead, post: 20512277, member: 354786"]
I married young to escape a difficult home situation
[/QUOTE]

What she's saying is that due to her situation at home she chose to marry her boyfriend at the time to escape home. 

She's the one now saying that she "was forced" to marry as her excuses to have sex with other dudes.
This is what she said:



Thatredhead said:


> He was my first sexual experience. I didn't know anything about being a real wife or about real life and hated sex for a long time. After kids that changed. Now I have a sex drive and I'm interested in lots of men and feel cheated out of a fulfilling sex life because I was basically forced into an early marriage.



Nobody forced her to marry him. She chose it to leave home. Nows is an excuse for what she wants


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## Diana7

I don't agree that we aren't naturally monogamous. It's been proven time and time again that children thrive the most with a mum and dad in marriage so clearly that is the family unit we were meant to ne in.
People who claim this are often those who committ adultery whether agreed or not.
Everyone can be faithful if they choose to be, but many choose not to be. Often that results in families imploding and children being deeply hurt as their parents split up. It's very sad to see. I have seen it many times.
Personally I think that once you bring children into the equation they should come first in any decision. Their well-being is paramount and that means being faithful and not risking the family falling apart.
It's all part of being a responsible adult and parent. Of putting them before our own wants and desires.

Children don't only need us till they are able to feed themselves or go to the loo or whatever they take nonsense has been spouted here, they need us all through their childhood, teens and into young adulthood. They watch and learn from how we behave, how we deal with challenges and difficulties. How we treat our spouses.
If people must cheat, at least wait till the children have left home.


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## TexasMom1216

Rob_1 said:


> Nobody forced her to marry him. She chose it to leave home. Nows is an excuse for what she wants


Oh I see that now. You're right.


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## TexasMom1216

oldshirt said:


> @TexasMom1216 once again you are talking about stuff that has no bearing on the topic and you are saying that people have said things that no one has actually said or even implied.
> 
> If you are going to continue to say that people are saying these things, you need to produce actual quotes and back it up.


OK, I have searched and searched and I can't find the post. So, because I can't produce quotes, I will adjust my other post and remove my comment. I'm not sure why it upset you so much, but clearly it did, so I will try to make it right.

Just know that I did take your advice to heart. I'm just still figuring out how to tell my swinger friend that I know about them and ask them to start inviting my husband to their sex parties. I'm hoping I don't have to go, because it's going to be heartbreaking and humiliating, but if I have to I have to. It will make for a long night, I'm hoping wine makes it go faster. I'm sure after the first one I won't be invited again.


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## sokillme

Who cares if we are naturally monogamous or not. Why do we use utensils or toilet paper? If we just did what is natural we would still be living in caves. It's such a stupid argument. If you want to have a triad have a triad. When it blows up come here and act shocked. But for God's sake please stop acting like it's somehow important that we do whats natural when every single major event in human progress was doing exactly the opposite of that.

Why don't you just be honest and divorce your husband instead of trying to get his blessing for you to cheat. Or tell him he sucks in bed and to step it up. 

Just remember if you do divorce and start dating again don't act like all the assholes who are Polly who basically hide that think this way until the have already gotten someone to invest a great deal of time and energy in the relationship. Only to spring there non-monogamous lifestyle on them after the fact. If you are going to do it at the very least make it one of the things you lead with even though that will severely lower your choices. 

Monogamous when done right is profound, and so much more rewarding then orgasm.


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## TexasMom1216

thread jack


----------



## Evinrude58

oldshirt said:


> Some of the other posters are going to lose their shyt over this, but I believe that an active and healthy sex life is a birth right to a sane, sober, consenting adult. Sexuality is the antithesis to death. When we are alive and healthy, we have an deep, instinctual yearning to merge with another(s).
> 
> A lot of young people were indoctrinated by Purity Culture and religious programming in regards to their sexuality and were bullied into commitment and marriage with people they never really clicked with sexually.
> 
> Now here you are as a full grown, self actualized and self determining human being and you are yoked to a fat blob who gets himself off and leaves you unsatisfied and won't do anything about it. And now you are coming into a stage of life where you care less what the neighbors think and you are free-thinking enough to realize the programming and indoctrination you had growing up was all BS and now you want to live the 2nd half of your life on more of your own terms - I get it.
> 
> I give your husband no sympathy and no quarter here. He has a choice to make. He can either recognize and accept that you are a sexual being that has wants and needs as well and that you aren't just a vessel for him to make two pumps and bust his nut in, and that your wants and needs are just as valid. And with that recognition he can put down the frosties and donuts and get his fat azz to the gym or at least out onto the sidewalk for walk around the block for starters and he can learn to use his hands and tongue and whatever toys are available until he can get treatment for his PE and he can at least try to step up to the plate to please you,,,, and then have some discussions on where the role of monogamy vs nonmongamy etc will play in your lives going forward.
> 
> Or he can watch you pack your bags move out when you find someone else willing and able to please you.
> 
> Or he can launder your semen soaked underwear when you get home from your dates.
> 
> HOWEVER what YOUR role in this needs to be is to up front and honest with him about what the stakes actually are. You played his game for 20 years and you were the good virgin bride and you changed diapers and cleaned up puke and you tolerated it when he was able to dig his winkie out from under the blubber rolls and finish himself in two pumps.
> 
> ..... Now it's your turn. You've checked off your to-do list. Now it's your turn and he has his options.
> 
> He can hit the gym, see a therapist for the PE and learn to lick the chrome off the bumper of a '57 Chevy.
> 
> He can watch you get all pretty'd up and walk out the door to go on your hook up dates in your little black dress, shiny red pedicure and high heels while he plays video games eating Hot Pockets on the couch.
> 
> He can dump your azz and say you are immoral, cheating ho.
> 
> Or he can watch you load your stuff into the moving truck to move on to your next guy.
> 
> The guy has put on 100lbs and isn't even willing to discuss the PE or how to please you in other ways or address the issues.
> 
> I think you are at a point where an ultimatum and letting him choose between whatever is behind Door A or Door B or Door C is in order.
> 
> Your responsibility is to make sure he is informed on exactly what it is behind each of those doors.


Yeah, I normally think you post some good stuff….. I’m gonna wholeheartedly disagree here.
OP claims she was practically coerced by society and too young to make vows and this and that. The little rationalization hamster is a running at Olympic record speeds in OP’s mind.
OP is at an age where she probably has 3 times or more sex drive than she ever had in her life and is wanting to duck every guy that walks. The only person saying her husband is a 2-stroke wonder is the OP. Let’s hear his side.
She’s such a whatever, that she’s posting nudes on some site and getting off on the ego kibbles from some losers that actually post on that crap. She’s spun things in her head so badly that she feels she deserves to break her vows and go jump in bed with whoever comes along, pretending that she has no intention of finding a better deal than her husband.
She has already said her husband doesn’t make a lot of money, neither does she. But she’s figured out that she’s hot enough to bag some wealthier guy that she thinks is good in bed. That’s great. She feels she deserves more. Loyalty isn’t a trait she happens to have. Whatever.

Go get em OP. Just do your husband, that you supposedly love, a solid and divorce him. His love has zero value to you. Let him know the truth by doing the right thing so he doesn’t stupidly think you actually have plans of staying with him.

That said, if he allows this without telling you to pack your bags, he is then complacent in the destruction of his own marriage and I feel no compassion for him.


----------



## Thatredhead

Husband and I had another long talk, he could see I was upset and he wanted to know what was bothering me. I told him that we needed to fix things in the bedroom and he agreed, but neither of us have any idea how. We spitballed a few ideas and then the topic of threesomes came up. He's fine with adding a woman but draws the line at a man. I'm ok with either, but got angry that he got to make that decision. That there is pure male ego and male pride and I'm not having ìt. He is fine if I sleep with another woman, but not a man. So he's not worried about me falling in love or running off or any of that romantic crap, cause I could do that with a woman too. (I'm attracted to women but have never been able to pursue that) His hesitancy is pure male ego and that is just such a huge turn off for me. 

Anyway we hashed things out and we are going to try and figure out wys to get him to last longer and spice things up and if that doesn't work, revisit the issue. He's thrilled that we are going to have more sex and do some things he wants to try. The talk just left me annoyed and more disillusioned than ever. 

To the posters questioning my background and how I ended up married: I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian sect that practices shunning. I fell in love with a non believer and had to get married or be shunned. I got married. I still got shunned, no family attended my wedding. I am currently shunned. My husband suffered mistreatment at their hands as well. We were just kids, desperate to be together but had no idea what we were doing. Certainly no one gave us the 'talk' or told us to wait to get married. I grew up being a wife and raising babies. I signed away all my rights to an autonomous life before I was even old enough to know what the hell I was doing. 

That said, we managed to build a decent life together. There's businesses, property, assets, children, and we love each other. Neither of us are willing to blow that up. So we will keep having these talks and I will keep living in frustration until something gives or changes. Menopause can't be that far away lmao.


----------



## Thatredhead

Evinrude58 said:


> She’s spun things in her head so badly that she feels she deserves to break her vows and go jump in bed with whoever comes along, pretending that she has no intention of *finding a better deal than her husband.*


This keeps getting brought up. I dont see what one thing has to do with another, flucking a guy would not make me want to marry him. Most likely would have the opposite effect. I do not want another long term partner. I do not want another man, any man. The very thought is exhausting. I want free sex with someone that knows what they're doing, some fun on the side, no strings attached, no emotional crap. I can't iterate enough how much I do not want another man in my life. I'm one and done. 

Are men looking to trade up everytime they **** around?


----------



## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> Husband and I had another long talk, he could see I was upset and he wanted to know what was bothering me. I told him that we needed to fix things in the bedroom and he agreed, but neither of us have any idea how. We spitballed a few ideas and then the topic of threesomes came up. He's fine with adding a woman but draws the line at a man. I'm ok with either, but got angry that he got to make that decision. That there is pure male ego and male pride and I'm not having ìt. He is fine if I sleep with another woman, but not a man. So he's not worried about me falling in love or running off or any of that romantic crap, cause I could do that with a woman too. (I'm attracted to women but have never been able to pursue that) His hesitancy is pure male ego and that is just such a huge turn off for me.
> 
> Anyway we hashed things out and we are going to try and figure out wys to get him to last longer and spice things up and if that doesn't work, revisit the issue. He's thrilled that we are going to have more sex and do some things he wants to try. The talk just left me annoyed and more disillusioned than ever.
> 
> To the posters questioning my background and how I ended up married: I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian sect that practices shunning. I fell in love with a non believer and had to get married or be shunned. I got married. I still got shunned, no family attended my wedding. I am currently shunned. My husband suffered mistreatment at their hands as well. We were just kids, desperate to be together but had no idea what we were doing. Certainly no one gave us the 'talk' or told us to wait to get married. I grew up being a wife and raising babies. I signed away all my rights to an autonomous life before I was even old enough to know what the hell I was doing.
> 
> That said, we managed to build a decent life together. There's businesses, property, assets, children, and we love each other. Neither of us are willing to blow that up. So we will keep having these talks and I will keep living in frustration until something gives or changes. Menopause can't be that far away lmao.


Sounds just like the JW's.....
They are weird. 

It's sad that he agrees to adultery even if only women, but never mind. It's your marriage to blow up.


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## Young at Heart

Thatredhead said:


> ......I made a vow when I was a stupid., desperate, brainwashed kid. I didn't know how much I didn't know. I lucked out with an extraordinarily good man, who was also a dumb kid at the time. Neither of us knew anything about sex so if he's sexually screwed up, that's on me I guess.
> 
> I don't want to blow up my life over sex. While this one issue is very important to me, it's not worth ruining my kids lives over. It would seem though that the consensus is that divorce is inevitable one way or another.


That in my opinion is the right approach. Dr. David Schnarch in his book the Crucible, says that Marriage is the hardest thing that two people can do, if they do it correctly. He also said that Marriage is a people growing machine which forces two people to become one and to grow emotionally.

I think your looking for sex elsewhere or to fill in the voids of your sexual experiences is just an aspect of your emotionally growing.

Rather than thinking of all the fabulous sex you missed and all the other guys who would have built up your ego, in reality, you probably missed lots of heart ache. Even Marilyn Monroe lamented at times that she was thought of as the most beautiful woman in the world and yet there were nights when she couldn't find a date and had to stay home alone. Being single can be heart breaking. 

My advice is to think of your marriage as a blessing and celebrate it. Find things and ways to strengthen it. If your H struggles with his sexuality, help him discover his sensuality.

Good luck.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Thatredhead said:


> Husband and I had another long talk, he could see I was upset and he wanted to know what was bothering me. I told him that we needed to fix things in the bedroom and he agreed, but neither of us have any idea how. We spitballed a few ideas and then the topic of threesomes came up. He's fine with adding a woman but draws the line at a man. I'm ok with either, but got angry that he got to make that decision. That there is pure male ego and male pride and I'm not having ìt. He is fine if I sleep with another woman, but not a man. So he's not worried about me falling in love or running off or any of that romantic crap, cause I could do that with a woman too. (I'm attracted to women but have never been able to pursue that) His hesitancy is pure male ego and that is just such a huge turn off for me.
> 
> Anyway we hashed things out and we are going to try and figure out wys to get him to last longer and spice things up and if that doesn't work, revisit the issue. He's thrilled that we are going to have more sex and do some things he wants to try. The talk just left me annoyed and more disillusioned than ever.
> 
> To the posters questioning my background and how I ended up married: I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian sect that practices shunning. I fell in love with a non believer and had to get married or be shunned. I got married. I still got shunned, no family attended my wedding. I am currently shunned. My husband suffered mistreatment at their hands as well. We were just kids, desperate to be together but had no idea what we were doing. Certainly no one gave us the 'talk' or told us to wait to get married. I grew up being a wife and raising babies. I signed away all my rights to an autonomous life before I was even old enough to know what the hell I was doing.
> 
> That said, we managed to build a decent life together. There's businesses, property, assets, children, and we love each other. Neither of us are willing to blow that up. So we will keep having these talks and I will keep living in frustration until something gives or changes. Menopause can't be that far away lmao.


This excerpt from your post:
"The talk just left me annoyed and more disillusioned than ever."

Just clarifies nothing will satisfy you in sex with H. You may as well own up to wanting to leave the M.


----------



## Thatredhead

Diana7 said:


> Sounds just like the JW's.....
> They are weird.


Bingo


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> Husband and I had another long talk, he could see I was upset and he wanted to know what was bothering me. I told him that we needed to fix things in the bedroom and he agreed, but neither of us have any idea how. We spitballed a few ideas and then the topic of threesomes came up. He's fine with adding a woman but draws the line at a man. I'm ok with either, but got angry that he got to make that decision. That there is pure male ego and male pride and I'm not having ìt. He is fine if I sleep with another woman, but not a man. So he's not worried about me falling in love or running off or any of that romantic crap, cause I could do that with a woman too. (I'm attracted to women but have never been able to pursue that) His hesitancy is pure male ego and that is just such a huge turn off for me.
> 
> Anyway we hashed things out and we are going to try and figure out wys to get him to last longer and spice things up and if that doesn't work, revisit the issue. He's thrilled that we are going to have more sex and do some things he wants to try. The talk just left me annoyed and more disillusioned than ever.


When I said to address your marital and sex issues at home, that is not what I had in mind but hey, at least you are talking about it together and that is probably the most important thing. 

You won’t have any trouble finding a woman that wants to rub up against you but I’m not sure where you’re going to find a woman that will want a 100lb overweight man trying to get in between you. 

But who knows, maybe this will be the inspiration to get in shape and motivate him to develop more prowess in the bedroom.

Either way, often times the specific plan is not as important as the planning and discussion process.

Just the fact you are addressing it and discussing it is a major step in and of itself.


----------



## jlg07

Thatredhead said:


> Husband and I had another long talk, he could see I was upset and he wanted to know what was bothering me. I told him that we needed to fix things in the bedroom and he agreed, but neither of us have any idea how. We spitballed a few ideas and then the topic of threesomes came up. He's fine with adding a woman but draws the line at a man. I'm ok with either, but got angry that he got to make that decision. That there is pure male ego and male pride and I'm not having ìt. He is fine if I sleep with another woman, but not a man. So he's not worried about me falling in love or running off or any of that romantic crap, cause I could do that with a woman too. (I'm attracted to women but have never been able to pursue that) His hesitancy is pure male ego and that is just such a huge turn off for me.
> 
> Anyway we hashed things out and we are going to try and figure out wys to get him to last longer and spice things up and if that doesn't work, revisit the issue. He's thrilled that we are going to have more sex and do some things he wants to try. The talk just left me annoyed and more disillusioned than ever.
> 
> To the posters questioning my background and how I ended up married: I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian sect that practices shunning. I fell in love with a non believer and had to get married or be shunned. I got married. I still got shunned, no family attended my wedding. I am currently shunned. My husband suffered mistreatment at their hands as well. We were just kids, desperate to be together but had no idea what we were doing. Certainly no one gave us the 'talk' or told us to wait to get married. I grew up being a wife and raising babies. I signed away all my rights to an autonomous life before I was even old enough to know what the hell I was doing.
> 
> That said, we managed to build a decent life together. There's businesses, property, assets, children, and we love each other. Neither of us are willing to blow that up. So we will keep having these talks and I will keep living in frustration until something gives or changes. Menopause can't be that far away lmao.


Instead of adding a third person (just from what you posted there are ALREADY resentments about this and you haven't even done it -- add 1000% to those resentments once you do....)
PLEASE go see a board certified sex therapist -- they can help you through all this stuff and get your sex life on track, help your H with his PE, etc.. They will have a plan for you to get to a good point instead of roll your own and hope for the best.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> Anyway we hashed things out and we are going to try and figure out wys to get him to last longer and spice things up and if that doesn't work, revisit the issue. He's thrilled that we are going to have more sex and do some things he wants to try. The talk just left me annoyed and more disillusioned than ever.


While I think it’s good that the subject was brought up and discussed. I too see this as a very ominous sign. 

The way I’m interpreting your posts is you want to have an active and gratifying sex life (perfectly understandable) but just not with him (also understandable in his current state)

That is all reasonable and understandable. 

The catch however is you want to remain married to him and have him continue to pay bills and unclog the toilet and kill spiders for you. 

He’s likely going to have a problem with that as very few men with even an ounce of dignity will agree to that. 

He’s going to want to get his too and even a good looking and virile men often have challenges in finding chicks on the side in an open marriage. A 300lb two-stroker simply isn’t going to be able to cut it in that environment. 

I’m afraid there’s no quick and painless solution here. All options will come at a steep cost and have their own set of consequences. 

He’s made it known that he wants his out of the deal and isn’t down for being cuckolded. 

He is going to want his too.

So Either he is willing and able to transform himself into a completely different person that you or at least someone else would want.

Or you are going to have to choose between getting with other dudes anyway whether with his knowledge or on the down low and risk him divorcing you.

Or you throwing in the towel on the marriage and divorcing him. 

Or sucking it up and living in chronic deprivation and misery.


----------



## sokillme

Thatredhead said:


> Husband and I had another long talk, he could see I was upset and he wanted to know what was bothering me. I told him that we needed to fix things in the bedroom and he agreed, but neither of us have any idea how. We spitballed a few ideas and then the topic of threesomes came up. He's fine with adding a woman but draws the line at a man. I'm ok with either, but got angry that he got to make that decision. That there is pure male ego and male pride and I'm not having ìt. He is fine if I sleep with another woman, but not a man. So he's not worried about me falling in love or running off or any of that romantic crap, cause I could do that with a woman too. (I'm attracted to women but have never been able to pursue that) His hesitancy is pure male ego and that is just such a huge turn off for me.
> 
> Anyway we hashed things out and we are going to try and figure out wys to get him to last longer and spice things up and if that doesn't work, revisit the issue. He's thrilled that we are going to have more sex and do some things he wants to try. The talk just left me annoyed and more disillusioned than ever.
> 
> To the posters questioning my background and how I ended up married: I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian sect that practices shunning. I fell in love with a non believer and had to get married or be shunned. I got married. I still got shunned, no family attended my wedding. I am currently shunned. My husband suffered mistreatment at their hands as well. We were just kids, desperate to be together but had no idea what we were doing. Certainly no one gave us the 'talk' or told us to wait to get married. I grew up being a wife and raising babies. I signed away all my rights to an autonomous life before I was even old enough to know what the hell I was doing.
> 
> That said, we managed to build a decent life together. There's businesses, property, assets, children, and we love each other. Neither of us are willing to blow that up. So we will keep having these talks and I will keep living in frustration until something gives or changes. Menopause can't be that far away lmao.


This is so unfair. Your mad at him but the the idea of introducing other people into your marriage but you are breaking your agreement not him. He didn't introduce this idea you did.

You are proposing changing the terms, he has bent a little and yet you still blame his ego because he doesn't want to open the marriage the way you want. It's gross. How egotistical that he doesn't want to have to watch his wife screw other men, do you even hear yourself? You are just trying to strong arm him and then blaming him when he won't go along with it like a typical narcissist. This poor guys is probably desperate to do anything he can save his years of investment. He has yet to see that his wife has other priorities and he is not really one of them. He will though.

All the things you complain about, your husband didn't do any of that to you. He married you in good faith. You talk about the idea of the marriage like it was somehow put upon you, and your effort to raise a family like it was a punishment. I suspect when he was working with you, building the foundation you talked about at the end of your post, when your kids were young you didn't think that way. You're just bored now. Do your kids know how much of a hardship it was and that is how you feel? Again I bet you had a totally different feeling years ago on your wedding day. It's not like he wasn't making the same sacrifices when he was also raising your kids too. This is just a typical excuse that "enlightened" people make when they want to cheat. You had kids and you raised them, like every single other person who does that. You are not a victim. You married a seemly good man who was faithful to you, he is boring in bed. That's his worst crime which isn't static by the way if you both are willing to work on it. But I suspect this isn't really what this about.

All this is is a typical midlife crisis. The truth is you want to date and experience being a young single person without the consequences of losing the safety of your home, or your children have to see you divorce their father and their mom shopping around. Your faithful husband and his years of loyalty no longer have any value to you. You really don't seem to care how this makes him feel. You even sell this as doing this because you think it will be good for him, talk about Orwellian. Imagine if your husband said, I want to move to a different country, it will be good for you start over. Or I want to join this church as a couple because it will be spiritually good for you. And then when you balked he said, your female pride won't let you. I am sure you would see that as very unreasonable. You complain about how it was done to you in your youth, yet here you are doing the same thing.

I suspect that you are consuming porn or watching stories that are selling you the idea that opening a marriage is going to improve your lives somehow. That you deserve this as an enlightened being. The typical narcissistic "eat pray love" women's blogs that tell you how it's a women's right to be selfish. It's your time! Like because you are a women that it's any different then every other man since the beginning of time who would say - "A man has needs" - as he cheated his faithful wife to screw his mistress, blew up his family and ended up laughed at by all the men who were faithful.

There is no monogamous person, even if their sex life is spectacular, even if they bedded thousands of people in their youth, who doesn't at times feel like you do about their marriage. Everyone has moments where they wonder the grass is greener, it's in our nature. Marriage isn't about that anyway. If you love someone you give. Once you are married, it's not your grass, its both of your grass. Period.

For most learning this is part of maturing, because they act out in their youth and do blow their lives up and this IS where you are at a disadvantage. But if you go down this path you are going to learn it too, the hard way. You will be divorced in a space of 2 years, watch. Your husband and your kids will feel tremendous pain and will lose a lot of respect for you. And you will be stuck with the men I mentioned above, who treat you nice as long as they can get you in bed because "he has needs". Once his needs are met you won't be one of them. Then after doing that for a while you will settle down to a guy and a marriage that is basically 2.0 of the one you have now, but with a hell of a lot of baggage and hurt people. I suggest if you reading blogs telling you how green the grass will be you should also read the ones that talk about the true aftermath, and how the grass is weeds and rocks.

This isn't even a treaty on open marriage. Maybe in rare cases it works. but when one of the parties is strong arming the other, telling them it's for their own good and shaming the other into it, it's going to fail. It's a forgone conclusion.

If you want to have sex with other people and that is your priority then do the honorable thing and divorce your husband. Don't be cruel and make him watch, don't be even more monstrous and get mad a him because he is not excited about it. That is just plain narcissistic abuse and couching it as some kind of emotional growth is just gaslighting.

It's not enlightenment, it's not healing any trauma you suffered in your childhood. You are being told a lie that you can somehow have everything you want. That marriage doesn't take sacrifice for every single person in one. Life isn't like that.

I get you probably think this is an attack but I am trying to help you by telling you the truth. I have no other motivation. You should think long an hard about the motivation of the people pushing you in the other direction. I wonder to you have the other guy already picked out?

If you must do this just divorce your husband, he deserves better. You seem to be hell bent on destroying your marriage anyway, and then calling it liberation.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> OK, I have searched and searched and I can't find the post. So, because I can't produce quotes, I will adjust my other post and remove my comment. I'm not sure why it upset you so much, but clearly it did, so I will try to make it right.
> 
> Just know that I did take your advice to heart. I'm just still figuring out how to tell my swinger friend that I know about them and ask them to start inviting my husband to their sex parties. I'm hoping I don't have to go, because it's going to be heartbreaking and humiliating, but if I have to I have to. It will make for a long night, I'm hoping wine makes it go faster. I'm sure after the first one I won't be invited again.


Why do you want your H to go to their sex parties? 
If you decide to go, what's the reasons to go?


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Why do you want your H to go to their sex parties?
> If you decide to go, what's the reasons to go?


This would be a threadjack, it's already jacked up enough. 😉 Another time.


----------



## oldshirt

(Side bar note to other members) Thatredhead has been very frank and open about her wishes for an open marriage and what has lead her to this point. 

I believe her story gives us a good insight to what is often going on in the background when a woman asks her H for an open marriage/hallpass. 

When these guys come here saying their wife wants an open marriage or a hallpass to “find herself” or that she “needs some space.” - remember this thread. 

Remember what is actually going on in the background here. 

Yes her pre-menopausal libido spike may be occurring and she might be hornier than she was at previous times. 

But it’s important to note the dissatisfaction and even disdain she has shown of her H. 

Oh she wants him to stick around in case she gets a flat tire or if there is a big scary spider in the shower when she goes to climb in in the morning, but when it comes to sex with the husband, many would probably rather cuddle up with the spider 🕷. 

When these guys come here and are somewhat concerned but also somewhat tittilated and excited that now the wife is showing some interest after keeping him at arm’s length for the last few years, remember her story here. I doubt if it’s much different than what’s actually going on with those other guys.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> This would be a threadjack, it's already jacked up enough. 😉 Another time.


Thanks, I dig it. Out of a desire to learn more about human nature those questions came right to mind. Maybe it will come up at another time as you feel led. PS sorry for the temp TJ .


----------



## Thatredhead

sokillme said:


> This is so unfair. Your mad at him but the the idea of introducing other people into your marriage but you are breaking your agreement not him. He didn't introduce this idea you did.
> 
> You are proposing changing the terms, he has bent a little and yet you still blame his ego because he doesn't want to open the marriage the way you want. It's gross. How egotistical that he doesn't want to have to watch his wife screw other men, do you even hear yourself? You are just trying to strong arm him and then blaming him when he won't go along with it like a typical narcissist. This poor guys is probably desperate to do anything he can save his years of investment. He has yet to see that his wife has other priorities and he is not really one of them. He will though.
> 
> All the things you complain about, your husband didn't do any of that to you. He married you in good faith. You talk about the idea of the marriage like it was somehow put upon you, and your effort to raise a family like it was a punishment. I suspect when he was working with you, building the foundation you talked about at the end of your post, when your kids were young you didn't think that way. You're just bored now. Do your kids know how much of a hardship it was and that is how you feel? Again I bet you had a totally different feeling years ago on your wedding day. It's not like he wasn't making the same sacrifices when he was he was raising your kids too. This is just a typical excuse that "enlightened" people make when they want to cheat. You had kids and you raised them, like every single other person who does that. You are not a victim. You married a seemly good man who was faithful to you, he is boring in bed. That's his worst crime which isn't static by the way if you both are willing to work on it. But I suspect this isn't really what this about.
> 
> All this is is a typical midlife crisis. The truth is you want to date and experience being a young single person without the consequences of losing the safety of your home, or your children have to see you divorce their father and their mom shopping around. Your faithful husband and his years of loyalty no longer have any value to you. You really don't seem to care how this makes him feel. You even sell this as doing this because you think it will be good for him, talk about Orwellian. Imagine if your husband said, I want to move to a different country, it will be good for you start over. Or I want to join this church as a couple because it will be spiritually good for you. And then when you balked he said, your female pride won't let you. I am sure you would see that is very unreasonable. You complain about how it was done to you in your youth, yet here you are doing the same thing.
> 
> I suspect that you are consuming porn or watching stories that are selling you the idea that opening a marriage is going to improve your lives somehow. That you deserve this as an enlightened being. The typical narcissistic "eat pray love" women's blogs that tell you how it's a women's right to be selfish. It's your time. Like because you are a women that it's any different then every other man since the beginning of time who would say - A man has needs - as he cheated his faithful wife to screw his mistress, blew up his family and ended up laughed at by all the men who were faithful.
> 
> There is no monogamous person, even if their sex life is spectacular, even if they bedded thousands of people in their youth, who doesn't at times feel like you do about their marriage. Everyone has moments where they wonder the grass is greener, it's in our nature. Marriage isn't about that anyway. If you love someone you give. Once you are married, it's not your grass, its both of your grass. Period.
> 
> For most learning this is part of maturing, because they act out in their youth and do blow their lives up and this IS where you are at a disadvantage. But if you go down this path you are going to learn it too. You will be divorced in a space of 2 years, watch. Your husband and your kids will feel tremendous pain and will lose a lot of respect for you. And you will be stuck with the men I mentioned above, who treat you nice as long as they can get you in bed because "he has needs". Once his needs are met you won't be one of them. Then after doing that for a while you will settle down to a guy and a marriage that is basically 2.0 of the one you have now, but with a hell of a lot of baggage. I suggest if you reading blogs telling you how green the grass will be you should also read the ones that talk about the aftermath.
> 
> This isn't even a treaty on open marriage. Maybe in rare cases it works. but when one of the parties is strong arming the other, telling them it's for their own good and shaming the other into it, it's going to fail. It's a forgone conclusion.
> 
> If you want to have sex with other people and that is your priority then do the honorable thing and divorce your husband. Don't be cruel and make him watch, don't be even more monstrous and get mad a him because he is not excited about it. That is just plain narcissistic abuse and couching it as some kind of emotional growth is just gaslighting.
> 
> It's not enlightenment, it's not healing any trauma you suffered in your childhood. You are being told a lie that you can somehow have everything you want. That marriage doesn't take sacrifice for every single person in one. Life isn't like that.
> 
> I get you probably think this is an attack but I am trying to help you by telling you the truth. I have no other motivation. You should think long an hard about the motivation of the people pushing you in the other direction. I wonder to you have the other guy already picked out?
> 
> If you must do this just divorce your husband, he deserves better. You seem to be hell bent on destroying your marriage anyway, and then calling it liberation.


I don't watch porn or read women's blogs. The idea of an open marriage came to me years ago, organically, when it occurred to me that I was not a naturally monogamous person. 

Porn is fake and uninspiring and I have never read any blogs about this topic, though I have perused the Reddit boards on affairs and adultery. 

Right now I'm angry and frustrated and full of regret for having ever gotten married, and not at all for the first time. I'm not always this angry about it, the feelings bubble up every few months to a year or so and then I tamp them down again. 

As far as sacrifices in a marriage, yeah there's lots and its almost always the woman making them. My husband has total freedom to do anything he wants. He comes and goes as he pleases, is free to spend whatever money he wants, leaves on vacations with his friends, goes and pursues his hobbies, etc. He works from home. He has a clean house and laundry, a well kept yard and vehicles, healthy meals, and well tended children. He has everything. I ask nothing of him. Maybe it's time he had less freedom and a little more sacrifice. Perhaps I shouldn't be the only unhappy one here.
Now it's in writing I see it. He doesn't want another man in my life because he's afraid he'll lose some of that attention. Ffs why didn't I see that earlier....he as much as said so the other day when he said he was concerned I'd hyperfixate on another man. That's it, isn't it. That's what is at the center of this...he doesn't want to lose my attention. ****...what a load of horseshit. 

I need to think about this.


----------



## sokillme

oldshirt said:


> (Side bar note to other members) Thatredhead has been very frank and open about her wishes for an open marriage and what has lead her to this point.
> 
> I believe her story gives us a good insight to what is often going on in the background when a woman asks her H for an open marriage/hallpass.
> 
> When these guys come here saying their wife wants an open marriage or a hallpass to “find herself” or that she “needs some space.” - remember this thread.
> 
> Remember what is actually going on in the background here.
> 
> Yes her pre-menopausal libido spike may be occurring and she might be hornier than she was at previous times.
> 
> But it’s important to note the dissatisfaction and even disdain she has shown of her H.
> 
> Oh she wants him to stick around in case she gets a flat tire or if there is a big scary spider in the shower when she goes to climb in in the morning, but when it comes to sex with the husband, many would probably rather cuddle up with the spider 🕷.
> 
> When these guys come here and are somewhat concerned but also somewhat tittilated and excited that now the wife is showing some interest after keeping him at arm’s length for the last few years, remember her story here. I doubt if it’s much different than what’s actually going on with those other guys.


100% agree, and to OP's credit, though I suspect she is not as "self aware" as she things. She has all the power in this dynamic, and to remove all the pretty language all this is is a strong arm. This is a very typical example how people who want to open their marriage operate. The truth is her husband is looking at the prospect of losing his marriage, have of all the financial equity he has built up over a lifetime or watching his wife have sex with other men. You know and I know that she will have a lot more choices then he does. Worse still now he is being called egotistical because he doesn't want to do that.

Imagine any other contract that works this way. Imagine if you started a business and then told your partner years later you wanted to take more of the profits and then you got upset when he wasn't cool with this. What this is is a hostel takeover of a marriage.

The guy didn't get married to have an open marriage and we both know if this guy came on here and told this story, both you and I and a lot of others would be telling him his marriage is over and to get divorced or somehow learn to be comfortable with watching his wife have sex with someone else.

That's rough. But to be told he is being selfish because he doesn't want to do that seems like insult to injury. But such is the way of the world right now.


----------



## blackclover3

Thatredhead said:


> I don't watch porn or read women's blogs. The idea of an open marriage came to me years ago, organically, when it occurred to me that I was not a naturally monogamous person.
> 
> Porn is fake and uninspiring and I have never read any blogs about this topic, though I have perused the Reddit boards on affairs and adultery.
> 
> Right now I'm angry and frustrated and full of regret for having ever gotten married, and not at all for the first time. I'm not always this angry about it, the feelings bubble up every few months to a year or so and then I tamp them down again.
> 
> As far as sacrifices in a marriage, yeah there's lots and its almost always the woman making them. My husband has total freedom to do anything he wants. He comes and goes as he pleases, is free to spend whatever money he wants, leaves on vacations with his friends, goes and pursues his hobbies, etc. He works from home. He has a clean house and laundry, a well kept yard and vehicles, healthy meals, and well tended children. He has everything. I ask nothing of him. Maybe it's time he had less freedom and a little more sacrifice. Perhaps I shouldn't be the only unhappy one here.
> Now it's in writing I see it. He doesn't want another man in my life because he's afraid he'll lose some of that attention. Ffs why didn't I see that earlier....he as much as said so the other day when he said he was concerned I'd hyperfixate on another man. That's it, isn't it. That's what is at the center of this...he doesn't want to lose my attention. ****...what a load of horseshit.
> 
> I need to think about this.


have you thought about going to a lifestyle resort. that way you meet strangers for one time and release that energy


----------



## Diana7

Of 


Thatredhead said:


> I don't watch porn or read women's blogs. The idea of an open marriage came to me years ago, organically, when it occurred to me that I was not a naturally monogamous person.
> 
> Porn is fake and uninspiring and I have never read any blogs about this topic, though I have perused the Reddit boards on affairs and adultery.
> 
> Right now I'm angry and frustrated and full of regret for having ever gotten married, and not at all for the first time. I'm not always this angry about it, the feelings bubble up every few months to a year or so and then I tamp them down again.
> 
> As far as sacrifices in a marriage, yeah there's lots and its almost always the woman making them. My husband has total freedom to do anything he wants. He comes and goes as he pleases, is free to spend whatever money he wants, leaves on vacations with his friends, goes and pursues his hobbies, etc. He works from home. He has a clean house and laundry, a well kept yard and vehicles, healthy meals, and well tended children. He has everything. I ask nothing of him. Maybe it's time he had less freedom and a little more sacrifice. Perhaps I shouldn't be the only unhappy one here.
> Now it's in writing I see it. He doesn't want another man in my life because he's afraid he'll lose some of that attention. Ffs why didn't I see that earlier....he as much as said so the other day when he said he was concerned I'd hyperfixate on another man. That's it, isn't it. That's what is at the center of this...he doesn't want to lose my attention. ****...what a load of horseshit.
> 
> I need to think about this.


Of course he doesn't want you with another man. He is your husband so why should he? 
You seem so bitter yet you say you love him and he you.


----------



## Diana7

blackclover3 said:


> have you thought about going to a lifestyle resort. that way you meet strangers for one time and release that energy


I doubt one time would be enough for her and it's still cheating.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Thatredhead said:


> As far as sacrifices in a marriage, yeah there's lots and its almost always the woman making them. My husband has total freedom to do anything he wants. He comes and goes as he pleases, is free to spend whatever money he wants, leaves on vacations with his friends, goes and pursues his hobbies, etc. He works from home. He has a clean house and laundry, a well kept yard and vehicles, healthy meals, and well tended children. He has everything. I ask nothing of him. Maybe it's time he had less freedom and a little more sacrifice. Perhaps I shouldn't be the only unhappy one here.


I feel like getting this out is really helping you. I hope it is.

The deeper you get into this, this isn't about sexual satisfaction. This is about freedom and dignity. This is about personal agency. Your religion told your husband you were his property, his slave, and that your needs do not matter. He's doing what he was told his whole life was his right as a man. I don't think he will change. But you can change. The hard part is, if you change, you're breaking the contract you have with him. If you don't feel that you really understood the terms before you signed on, which is what it sounded like since you were escaping a bad home life and pressed by your church, then that is a fair reason to break the contract. But bottom line, you're talking about divorce. Sex with a bunch of other dudes isn't going to fix this, it's MUCH deeper than that. Sex with a bunch of new people won't make your husband respect or value you. It won't make him help out around the house, or help with the kids, or start viewing you as a partner. I think you need to think big picture: where do you want to be in 5 years? 10? When you close your eyes and think about still being in this marriage in 10 years, how does that make you feel?

This is a lot to deal with, I hope you have friends you can talk to as well. Please don't cheat on him, though. You're an adult and can make your own choices, I just think you'd regret that one.


----------



## SunCMars

Thatredhead said:


> I dont think monogamy is the natural default for humans. It is a cultural and societal norm for much of humanity now, but it wasn't always. It doesn't make biological sense for humans to have one lifelong mate. Monogamy is a choice, most people just don't realize it's being made for them without their consent or knowledge by our current social and religious conditioning.


Yet, you married into this monogamy.
Monogamy, you think is monotony.

Change is your choice,
Changing penises in the middle of the stream is often very unfair to the man left on the other rowboat.

Your feelings on this topic seem sincere and steadfast.

For the umpteenth time, divorce and sample all the men you want.
It will be your solely your choice, as your husband will not abide by it.

And, after you get this wanderlust out of your system, find a man you can stand next to, for that remaining lifetime.
Or not..

Your choice.



_Lilith-_


----------



## sokillme

Thatredhead said:


> As far as sacrifices in a marriage, yeah there's lots and its almost always the woman making them. My husband has total freedom to do anything he wants. He comes and goes as he pleases, is free to spend whatever money he wants, leaves on vacations with his friends, goes and pursues his hobbies, etc. He works from home. He has a clean house and laundry, a well kept yard and vehicles, healthy meals, and well tended children. He has everything. I ask nothing of him. Maybe it's time he had less freedom and a little more sacrifice. Perhaps I shouldn't be the only unhappy one here.
> Now it's in writing I see it. He doesn't want another man in my life because he's afraid he'll lose some of that attention. Ffs why didn't I see that earlier....he as much as said so the other day when he said he was concerned I'd hyperfixate on another man. That's it, isn't it. That's what is at the center of this...he doesn't want to lose my attention. ****...what a load of horseshit.


Yeah how dare he want the attention of his wife. Why do you think he married you? You act like that isn't perfectly reasonable. That's marriage, it's been marraige for the last 100 years. If you want something different just get divorced. Your husband isn't a couch or a car. He is a living breathing human being that you presumably loved at one time.

Maybe your marriage wasn't equatable as much as you wanted, and that may be a valid criticism. How is anything you mentioned above going to be solved by F'ing other men? How exactly? Is it revenge you want? If anything it's just going to destroy what's left of it. Why is the the bedroom where you are choosing to attack these problems.

I am not even saying you can't divorce, if you are done then do so, but that's fair and you are going to have to take some risk too. At least it will be honorable.

All you are doing here is trying to justify cheating, I guess at least to your credit you are doing so before you have cheated. I suspect at least some of that Christian background is holding you back, so it at least has some value. That is the only thing that is preventing you from destroying yours and everyone else's life right now.

Let me ask you, did your husband work? Did your husband help pay for the house you live in, the food on your table? How about your kids did he help you raise them into strong adults? Maybe he wasn't the best husband, I don't know. (Now I strongly believe, like all people in the depths of lusting after an affair, you are an unreliable narrator right now) Still, even if he sucked, trying to get him to allow you to have sex with other men isn't going to fix that.

So now you think it sucks that you didn't get to have a bunch of random hookups when you were young, OK, I lost my hair by the time I was 40 it was staring when I was 19, that sucked too. That's life. The time for you to do that without it having a tremendous impact on everyone who loves you, and everything you have build HAS PASSED. Not doing that or destroying your life are your only choices. You married a monogamous person, and he did nothing wrong in doing that. That was the plan you both agreed to. He is not being selfish by being who he always said he was, or expecting the terms to stay the same. You are. Alternatively there are healthy things you can do to address your issues, but trying to strong arm him into accepting and making him watch you have sex with other men is not the way to go about it. It's abusive plain and simple.

Let me tell you, you don't feel any different then anyone else hitting middle age and wondering what the next half of their life will be. The guy who is happily married to a faithful wife for years, but she is tired and no longer puts out much of an effort in bed. Truthfully he doesn't pursue her with the same vigor either. Where they both are a little overweight and don't dress as nicely as they used to. The one who has worked his way up in his job and has some power and because of that he looks in charge and assertive. He wears suits everyday to the office but only because it's required, little does anyone but his wife know that he would rather be in his default outfit of ratty shorts and an old stained t-shirt. Here he is running meetings and bossing people around basically going through the motions, then suddenly some inexperience young lady with daddy issues is crushing on him. Now this may be his last chance to have sex with a young, in her prime enthusiastic women. What's he going to do? A good man has the courage to accept that it may even be painful not to pursue an avenue that is open to him, because he loves his wife, but even more so because he loves himself. His honor is more important then having and orgasm and getting an ego boost. How would we look on this guy, if he want to his wife, complained that she is a little overweight, boring in bed and tells her how he wants to open up her marriage, but hey she can sleep with other guys too.

His wife gave him her entire life. Isn't that enough? Isn't that more important then a few fleeting moments of feeling young again, when that is going to change in a few years anyway. We age you and you only get one chance at that period of time, and if you are honest there were plenty of things that were awful about that too. If you do this you will go right back to that. You will have plenty of sex, like a lot of people do around that age, but you will also have all the anxiety of no stability and commitment. The people who are telling you, you can have both are lying to you.

Maybe in this example (and you) he can work with her like he has in every other aspect of his life to help him make the transition into middle age. That is what marriage is really about.

Nope this is about YOUR EGO, not your husbands.

Again lash out at me if you want, but I am trying to save you from destroying your life and hurting everyone else's who loves you in the process. I suspect even for you in the end the cost will be too great. Maybe not because of your husbands fall out, but the fallout for your kids will hurt you.

Get a cleaning person. Talk to your husband about your disappointments and work at it. Go get some IC who will challege this mindset, not enable it and let her recommend a sex therapist. Do that because that gives you a chance.

Your problems are not going to be solved by adding other people to your bedroom. I will ask again do you have someone in mind to be this person?


----------



## oldshirt

sokillme said:


> 100% agree, and to OP's credit, though I suspect she is not as "self aware" as she things. She has all the power in this dynamic, and to remove all the pretty language all this is is a strong arm. This is a very typical example how people who want to open their marriage operate. The truth is her husband is looking at the prospect of losing his marriage, have of all the financial equity he has built up over a lifetime or watching his wife have sex with other men. You know and I know that she will have a lot more choices then he does. Worse still now he is being called egotistical because he doesn't want to do that.
> 
> Imagine any other contract that works this way. Imagine if you started a business and then told your partner years later you wanted to take more of the profits and then you got upset when he wasn't cool with this. What this is is a hostel takeover of a marriage.
> 
> The guy didn't get married to have an open marriage and we both know if this guy came on here and told this story, both you and I and a lot of others would be telling him his marriage is over and to get divorced or somehow learn to be comfortable with watching his wife have sex with someone else.
> 
> That's rough. But to be told he is being selfish because he doesn't want to do that seems like insult to injury. But such is the way of the world right now.


The irony to all of this is that today he is probably the happiest man on the planet and walking on air because she basically told him he could have a FMF 3-way. 

He is probably dancing a jig today thinking he is the big stud horse going to live out a life long fantasy. 

But he has no idea what’s really in store for him any day now 😮


----------



## sokillme

oldshirt said:


> The irony to all of this is that today he is probably the happiest man on the planet and walking on air because she basically told him he could have a FMF 3-way.
> 
> He is probably dancing a jig today thinking he is the big stud horse going to live out a life long fantasy.
> 
> But he has no idea what’s really in store for him any day now 😮


Maybe. Maybe not. I tend to think not. Usually that happens when the guy initiates it. He probably has mixed feeling and is dreading what is coming, new sex might cushion the blow. He will find out soon enough anyway.

Just like your hypothetical situation where the guy has no idea, OP will have no idea, if her husband really is monogamous, how typical is it when he meets another swinger wife who was also forced into the situation and then the two of them decide that they are a better fit now. Nothing kills love faster then watching your partner sigh in ecstasy while another person screwing as circumstance forces you to watch. **** that. Even half your fortune isn't worth that. This other women will seem like salvation.

How many threads have we read started by women who were just like OP who have buyers remorse now that their cuckold husband has moved on to someone who fits his monogamous "lifestyle". I must have read that thread 100 times now.


----------



## Thatredhead

sokillme said:


> Your problems are not going to be solved by adding other people to your bedroom. I will ask again do you have someone in mind to be this person?


I have several candidates in mind but I'm not stuck on any of them. The identity of the third party is meaningless, only that there is one. 

I'm not looking for commitment or a romance with the 3rd party so it doesn't really matter who he is, beyond superficial attraction.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

oldshirt said:


> The irony to all of this is that today he is probably the happiest man on the planet and walking on air because she basically told him he could have a FMF 3-way.
> 
> He is probably dancing a jig today thinking he is the big stud horse going to live out a life long fantasy.
> 
> But he has no idea what’s really in store for him any day now 😮


Then there's the chance she'll say just kidding, btw meet my new friend Big Mike, who's joining us for tonight's activities. 
Big Mike is Magic Mike's big brother, I met him when he helped my load the truck with mulch and fertilizer. He'll be staying with us a few days cleaning the pool and working in the yard.

I'm going to stay home and supervise him. I have some plumbing repairs he can do too. 

When the W tells hubby all that, let's say maybe he'll realize what he's getting into.


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## drencrom

Thatredhead said:


> Are men looking to trade up everytime they **** around?


F*****g around IS trading up. It just doesn't result in divorce all the time.


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## drencrom

Thatredhead said:


> I have several candidates in mind but I'm not stuck on any of them. The identity of the third party is meaningless, only that there is one.
> 
> I'm not looking for commitment or a romance with the 3rd party so it doesn't really matter who he is, beyond superficial attraction.


Well then go ahead and go f*** them. You obviously have no respect for your husband. And don't dare say you care about him.

You don't think monogamy is natural, then you shouldn't have gotten married.

Marriage is not for the weak, the selfish, or the insecure. Therefore, get a divorce and you can F around til your heart is content.


----------



## sokillme

Thatredhead said:


> I have several candidates in mind but I'm not stuck on any of them. The identity of the third party is meaningless, only that there is one.
> 
> I'm not looking for commitment or a romance with the 3rd party so it doesn't really matter who he is, beyond superficial attraction.


I agree, it's meaningless only that there is one. I suspect it matters quite a bit to your husband. 

Thank you for this thread and your honesty.


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## Thatredhead

oldshirt said:


> The irony to all of this is that today he is probably the happiest man on the planet and walking on air because she basically told him he could have a FMF 3-way.
> 
> He is probably dancing a jig today thinking he is the big stud horse going to live out a life long fantasy.
> 
> But he has no idea what’s really in store for him any day now 😮


He was very hesitant about the idea of a FMF or even a girlfriend. He's afraid of falling in love or forming an attachment. Maybe he already has one on the side that I don't know about and that's his cover. I've told him time and again he's free to have a GF, but I'd rather not know the details. So he could have one even though he says he doesn't. I can't ever tell when he's lying. 

He had a fling a few years back and while I didn't like it, cause I didn't like her, I didn't interfere and it fizzled out. 

I thought he'd be happier at the chance to have a gf or a lover but he didn't seem too impressed at the idea. He certainly didn't act stud like.


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## Mybabysgotit

Thatredhead said:


> To be brutally honest, my husband isn't very good in bed. He's done very quickly, just as soon as I get going. It's extremely frustrating and everytime we talk about it i get some version of 'It's not my fault you're just too good. So he blames his lack of control on me and never tries to fix it.
> 
> I want better sex, different sex, I want to explore and learn. I want to know what I don’t know. I still feel somewhat naive, to be honest.
> 
> For all the emphasis people put on sex, I feel it ought to better than it is. Surely there is something more that I am missing.


See, that's the thing I like about being married. You have your whole life to get the sex thing figured out between you two. That's the only thing you two have that is sacred in the marriage. If you don't have that, why be married? 

And as far as exploring and learning, communicate that with your husband. I bet he will be thrilled to hear it. BUT learn with HIM, not other people. If you go down the open marriage route, I'll tell you what's going to happen in the short and long run:

short run - your husband will see you getting laid left and right, and because he loves you, he will try his best to stay with you. He will be torn up inside every single day. He will become depressed and feel like a shell of the man he is today. He may become suicidal at one point.

long run - eventually, you two will divorce. He will find a lovely woman that treats him with respect and is willing to put in the time and effort to show him how to have sex properly. She will be the recipient of that good sex. For you, sleeping around will get boring, you will feel empty. You will wake up one day and realize your sad and alone.

Best of luck on your decision.


----------



## Thatredhead

drencrom said:


> Well then go ahead and go f*** them. You obviously have no respect for your husband. And don't dare say you care about him.
> 
> You don't think monogamy is natural, then you shouldn't have gotten married.


This is where I get hung up. Why can't I love and care for one man, my husband, and still want to have a sexual experience with other people? Why are the two exclusionary? What makes being in love with one person shut off all the other sexual feelings one has for other people? Because if there is a switch that is supposed to flip whe you fall in love, blocking out the need for sex with others, I dont have that switch. 

I agree totally that I should never have gotten married. I am not marriage material and I never have been. But I'm stuck in it now and trying to make the best of it. 

Fair warning to anyone reading this, don't marry good little Christian virgins. Don't BE a good little Christian virgin. It's a wholesale recipe for disaster.


----------



## sokillme

Thatredhead said:


> Are men looking to trade up everytime they **** around?


The men who do this are looking to ejaculate, because it releases endorphins, feels good and a lot of us have been taught that somehow getting attractive women to help you do that makes you worth more as a person. Like hunters with heads on the wall.

It's only that most of us are biologically programmed that women's bodies help us do that, one day it will be robots, and the more lifelike they are the higher the status will be. If it were pumpkins there would be a hell of a lot of men out in the pumpkin patch with their ****s in them. Gives new meaning to "nothing sincerity for all the your eyes can see". (*Peanuts reference anyone?)  🤪

It's not really any different then cars or any other material thing that we base or worth on. Not to say that in the appropriate context that it's not fun, but it's just consumerism.

These guys care little about how sex can be used to build intimacy or emotional connection and just want to boost their ego. They also don't appreciate the potential that feeling that emotional connection will give them a long lasting feeling of self worth. That and procreation is why we are biologically programmed the way we are. Make no mistake most men get up and go to work for this connection.

That is the most honest depiction that you well ever get about this. It could be you or any other gourd.


----------



## Mybabysgotit

Thatredhead said:


> I'm not happy to lie or cheat, I want to avoid that. I suck at lying and I'm too clueless to cheat properly. I want everything open and above board with all parties. Surely this kind of arrangement can't be that off the wall. It seems perfectly rational and logical to me.


Have you asked yourself how your husband benefits from this open marriage thing? Do you care?


----------



## HappilyMarried1

Thatredhead said:


> Sex does not equal emotional attachment for me. It's just a bodily function, like eating or sleeping. Necessary but nothing to get too excited over.


I’m just curious you make this statement above like you are some kind of sexual expert but in your OP you plainly say you have only had sex your husband and no one else. *How do you know then how you feel if you go out and gave sex with someone since you haven’t done it before? However could it be you have behind your husband’s back and don’t want to get caught and are now trying to open the marriage. * I just don’t see how you can be so sure how you would feel about having sex with someone different. Best of luck!


----------



## blackclover3

Thatredhead said:


> This is where I get hung up. Why can't I love and care for one man, my husband, and still want to have a sexual experience with other people? Why are the two exclusionary? What makes being in love with one person shut off all the other sexual feelings one has for other people? Because if there is a switch that is supposed to flip whe you fall in love, blocking out the need for sex with others, I dont have that switch.
> 
> I agree totally that I should never have gotten married. I am not marriage material and I never have been. But I'm stuck in it now and trying to make the best of it.
> 
> Fair warning to anyone reading this, don't marry good little Christian virgins. Don't BE a good little Christian virgin. It's a wholesale recipe for disaster.


how did you find these candidates?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> I feel like getting this out is really helping you. I hope it is.
> 
> The deeper you get into this, this isn't about sexual satisfaction. This is about freedom and dignity. This is about personal agency. Your religion told your husband you were his property, his slave, and that your needs do not matter. He's doing what he was told his whole life was his right as a man. I don't think he will change. But you can change. The hard part is, if you change, you're breaking the contract you have with him. If you don't feel that you really understood the terms before you signed on, which is what it sounded like since you were escaping a bad home life and pressed by your church, then that is a fair reason to break the contract. But bottom line, you're talking about divorce. Sex with a bunch of other dudes isn't going to fix this, it's MUCH deeper than that. Sex with a bunch of new people won't make your husband respect or value you. It won't make him help out around the house, or help with the kids, or start viewing you as a partner. I think you need to think big picture: where do you want to be in 5 years? 10? When you close your eyes and think about still being in this marriage in 10 years, how does that make you feel?
> 
> This is a lot to deal with, I hope you have friends you can talk to as well. Please don't cheat on him, though. You're an adult and can make your own choices, I just think you'd regret that one.


Best answer ever.

But I'm thinking @Thatredhead is looking for yes, you should go ahead type advice 😮


----------



## Mybabysgotit

Thatredhead said:


> That's false. He may be overweight but he rocks the dad bod and is bearded and tattooed. He's good looking with beautiful blue eyes and he gets hit on from time to time. He could pick up another woman if he wanted. Heck I have a friend who's made no secret of the fact that she wants him and its a running joke between us.
> 
> It's frustrating that he won't, because he easily could.


And women love the two pump chump guy that's only had sex with one woman in his life. Those guys are usually the one's killing it in the bedroom.....lol


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Best answer ever.
> 
> But I'm thinking @Thatredhead is looking for yes, you should go ahead type advice 😮


Thanks. 😁 Even a blind squirrel, right?

But I fear you are correct. She seems laser focused on having sex with tons of random dudes, and not really thinking big picture or wanting to actually fix anything.


----------



## sokillme

Thatredhead said:


> This is where I get hung up. Why can't I love and care for one man, my husband, and still want to have a sexual experience with other people? Why are the two exclusionary? What makes being in love with one person shut off all the other sexual feelings one has for other people? Because if there is a switch that is supposed to flip whe you fall in love, blocking out the need for sex with others, I dont have that switch.
> 
> I agree totally that I should never have gotten married. I am not marriage material and I never have been. But I'm stuck in it now and trying to make the best of it.
> 
> Fair warning to anyone reading this, don't marry good little Christian virgins. Don't BE a good little Christian virgin. It's a wholesale recipe for disaster.


The answer is because you made a deal and he is telling you he doesn't want to change the terms. Why can't I quit my job and live off my wife salary, sleep all day an play video games. God-D but don't I wish I could do that. This is not how you do adulting.

Do you not understand that it will be painful for your husband to live through that? Again this makes you sound like a narcissist. If this is the case, I propose let your husband have sex with anyone he wants for a year including prostitutes (that are medically checked and safe). Let's be honest the scales will not be even because sex doesn't motivate most women as much as it does men, so prostitutes will level the playing field. At least then then he will be used to it and will have emotionally detached from you enough that he won't care that you are having sex with others. If he is not up for it, at least he will have a true sense of how little you are invested in each others sexual commitment. He can make an informed decision if he wants the marriage to continue under those circumstances.

Hell, you could do what you wrote if your husband was open to it, but he doesn't seem to be, and that is not unreasonable.

WHAT IS REALLY YOUR ISSUE HERE? Really? What do you think sex with other people will provide for you? Excitement? Validate your attractiveness? Adventure? What is it?

How do you think in your life will change for the better when you are screwing other men?


----------



## Mybabysgotit

Thatredhead said:


> Sex does not equal emotional attachment for me. It's just a bodily function, like eating or sleeping. Necessary but nothing to get too excited over. Sucks when it hasn't happened in awhile or isn't done right, but still...just body parts doing their thing.


LOL.........Say that after you've been laid correctly.


----------



## Thatredhead

HappilyMarried1 said:


> I’m just curious you make this statement above like you are some kind of sexual expert but in your OP you plainly say you have only had sex your husband and no one else. *How do you know then how you feel if you go out and gave sex with someone since you haven’t done it before? However could it be you have behind your husband’s back and don’t want to get caught and are now trying to open the marriage. * I just don’t see how you can be so sure how you would feel about having sex with someone different. Best of luck!


Fair point. I am in general an unemotional and logical person. I am a scientist. I see sex for what it is and I don't get emotional about it. I dont bond through it.
It would be uncharacteristic for me to get stars in my eyes over sex when I never have had a single romantic feeling in my life. I'm actually uncomfortable with the thought of bonding over sex. It seems like a foolish thing to do.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

Thatredhead said:


> Fair point. I am in general an unemotional and logical person. I am a scientist. I see sex for what it is and I don't get emotional about it. I dont bond through it.
> It would be uncharacteristic for me to get stars in my eyes over sex when I never have had a single romantic feeling in my life. I'm actually uncomfortable with the thought of bonding over sex. It seems like a foolish thing to do.


Thanks for replying so you are just then assuming based on your personality how you think you will react? Just remember you won’t really know until you actually do it and just want to prepare you that based on how the sex goes you may have a totally different feeling than you think you might and just want to tell you exactly that.


----------



## Thatredhead

sokillme said:


> The answer is because you made a deal and he is telling you he doesn't want to change the terms. Why can't I quit my job and live off my wife salary, sleep all day an play video games. God-D but don't I wish I could do that. This is not how you do adulting.
> 
> Do you not understand that it will be painful for your husband to live through that? Again this makes you sound like a narcissist. If this is the case, I propose let your husband have sex with anyone he wants for a year including prostitutes (that are medically checked and safe). Let's be honest the scales will not be even because sex doesn't motivate most women as much as it does men, so prostitutes will level the playing field. At least then then he will be used to it and will have emotionally detached from you enough that he won't care that you are having sex with others. If he is not up for it, at least he will have a true sense of how little you are invested in each others sexual commitment. He can make an informed decision if he wants the marriage to continue under those circumstances.
> 
> Hell, you could do what you wrote if your husband was open to it, but he doesn't seem to be, and that is not unreasonable.
> 
> WHAT IS REALLY YOUR ISSUE HERE? Really? What do you think sex with other people will provide for you? Excitement? Validate your attractiveness? Adventure? What is it?
> 
> How do you think in your life will change for the better when you are screwing other men?


I get that it is painful for him, which is why I haven't done it yet. I can't fully understand WHY it is painful because my world view has changed and I have become so much more liberal and free than he is that I've almost forgot all the repression and hang up I grew up with and that he still has. But that said, I respect that he has issues still and I don't want to cause him pain. There are more issues than what I've posted here. 

What do I think I will get out of sex with other people? Liberation. Validation. Education. Exploration. Adventure. Fun. Hell, even disappointment would be interesting. 

How do I think my life will change for the better? Well a huge dose of self respect for one. That awful FOMO would be gone. It is humiliating to have only slept with one person. It's almost as bad as being the 40 year old virgin. I'd feel a sense of autonomy, for sure. That's what I want the most. The feeling of having control and final say over my own body. I've never had that.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Thatredhead said:


> I get that it is painful for him, which is why I haven't done it yet. I can't fully understand WHY it is painful because my world view has changed and I have become so much more liberal and free than he is that I've almost forgot all the repression and hang up I grew up with and that he still has. But that said, I respect that he has issues still and I don't want to cause him pain. There are more issues than what I've posted here.
> 
> What do I think I will get out of sex with other people? Liberation. Validation. Education. Exploration. Adventure. Fun. Hell, even disappointment would be interesting.
> 
> How do I think my life will change for the better? Well a huge dose of self respect for one. That awful FOMO would be gone. It is humiliating to have only slept with one person. It's almost as bad as being the 40 year old virgin. I'd feel a sense of autonomy, for sure. That's what I want the most. The feeling of having control and final say over my own body. I've never had that.


Well, it's ok to divorce and live as you feel led, and be responsible for your own care and housing. Do your H a favor, and start living your own best life today.


----------



## sokillme

OP you are operating under a false premise that marriage is supposed to solve all your problems. It's not. So when you say stuff like I am not marriage material you are talking about a very small part of marriage. The sex part. The raising children, the building financial wealth, all the things as you listed in your other post show your marriage has very much been a huge benefit to your life. That is just as much a part of marriage as sex is. 

You are doing what all people who eventually cheat do. You are hyper-focused on this one aspect of marriage and throwing out all the other benefits. The thing is if you do this you are bound to lose all the other benefits as well. That's how it works. 

What I am trying to get you to see is that you may be mistaking what the problem really is here an in the process doing things that will not fix the real problem. This is very typical of people who have affairs while going through a mid life crisis.

Also you say that you have no emotional attachment with sex, but it's more likely the truth is, at this point in your marriage you have no emotional attachment to your husband, particularly when having sex with him. There are probably a lot of reasons for that and you have outlined some but maybe you can fix that. 

It's also just as possible you may just quickly have an emotional attachment to someone you bring into your marriage. Then you will be forced to make a very difficult choice, because then this won't just be having random sex with someone, you will be deciding to ignore the emotional and sexual attraction to one other person. This stuff is not static. Sex causes people to catch feelings. Just because you haven't experienced that in a long time doesn't make it less true. It's a biological fact even for folks in an open marriage, in fact that is why it's important that both spouses are working together, as I understand it. It's also the thing that brakes up these marriages even when both people have committed and have the best of intentions. In this case that is not your marriage. Like my other post your husband is just as likely to catch feelings.

Right now you have no reason to want to leave your marriage, granted it's a selfish reason, I suspect the prospect of starting over at your age probably isn't appealing, Well loss will stay the same so now you will have the additional pain of not being able to have something that emotionally you want. You think denying yourself physically is hard, just wait until it's emotional.


----------



## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> This is where I get hung up. Why can't I love and care for one man, my husband, and still want to have a sexual experience with other people? Why are the two exclusionary? What makes being in love with one person shut off all the other sexual feelings one has for other people? Because if there is a switch that is supposed to flip whe you fall in love, blocking out the need for sex with others, I dont have that switch.
> 
> I agree totally that I should never have gotten married. I am not marriage material and I never have been. But I'm stuck in it now and trying to make the best of it.
> 
> Fair warning to anyone reading this, don't marry good little Christian virgins. Don't BE a good little Christian virgin. It's a wholesale recipe for disaster.


It's really not a wholesale recipe for disaster. Plus JW's are a sect not Christians at all.
I know quite a few people who were virgins when they married and who married virgins. Still very happily married in their 60's and 70's. Some of the strongest marriages I know.


----------



## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> Fair point. I am in general an unemotional and logical person. I am a scientist. I see sex for what it is and I don't get emotional about it. I dont bond through it.
> It would be uncharacteristic for me to get stars in my eyes over sex when I never have had a single romantic feeling in my life. I'm actually uncomfortable with the thought of bonding over sex. It seems like a foolish thing to do.


My husband is also a scientist with a PHD and highly logical. 
He is still faithful and has never had sex outside marriage. He still knows they is far more to sex that just the physical. 

Op how much do you care about your children? Do you care that what you want to do will almost certainly blow their family up? I just can't understand how anyone could do something that would almost certainly devastate their own children.


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## drencrom

Thatredhead said:


> This is where I get hung up. Why can't I love and care for one man, my husband, and still want to have a sexual experience with other people?


Because the man you claim to love doesn't want you to be having sex with other men. So if you loved him, you wouldn't do it.

But dammit, I said I was out...so NOW I'm out.


----------



## Rob_1

Thatredhead said:


> I am a scientist. I see sex for what it is and I don't get emotional about it


What a ball of crap. I am a scientist (Biological fields) too. Work with other scientists for over 40 years and I can tell you that regardless of how the sex aspect is studied and dissected, that does not impede any scientist to involve feelings/desires when seeking sex with a partner or just for sex. I haven't met a scientist that goes by "I want just sex" let me rut and mechanically think about every step I'm making to conclude the sex act and relieve myself. As a matter of fact you don't come across like any scientist at all throughout your posts. What field are you? are you in any the biological field where you trained on the sex aspect of sexual living beings? I could tell you, "I'm a accountant" therefore I see sex for what it is clinically, without emotions. So what kind of a scientist are you?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Thatredhead said:


> Fair point. I am in general an unemotional and logical person. I am a scientist. I see sex for what it is and I don't get emotional about it. I dont bond through it.
> It would be uncharacteristic for me to get stars in my eyes over sex when I never have had a single romantic feeling in my life. I'm actually uncomfortable with the thought of bonding over sex. It seems like a foolish thing to do.


Life Science, or Music Appreciation Phd?


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## Rob_1

Forgot to add, you don't need to be a scientist to "see sex for what it is" isn't in nature the purpose of sex reproduction? from a scientific point of view that's what sex is for.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> This is where I get hung up. Why can't I love and care for one man, my husband, and still want to have a sexual experience with other people? Why are the two exclusionary? What makes being in love with one person shut off all the other sexual feelings one has for other people? Because if there is a switch that is supposed to flip whe you fall in love, blocking out the need for sex with others, I dont have that switch.


I understand and have felt the same way at various times in my life. Many probably feel that way to one degree or another. 

When I was in the swinging lifestyle may wife and I would have a completely traditional June and Ward Clever type home life. 

Then on a Saturday night we could go to a party and be a room full of naked bodies and I could have sex with several women in an evening and she with a number of men and women and we would hold hands in the car on the way home and have hot monkey sex when we got home and then take the kids to the zoo the next day like every other family. 

The catch for you is you H is not up for that and you have no attraction and desire for him. 

The catch for you is not your feelings or outlook on relationships and monogamy, lots of people share that kind of outlook. 

The catch is there is nothing in it for him and he knows once you start getting with others, you will no longer be able to bring yourself to touch him at all and will eventually leave him. 

The crux of the matter is not that want to get with other guys. You can do that and you can scratch that itch all the live-long day... forever if you wanted with a new batch of guys every day. 

What’s holding you up is you still want to remain married with your H,,,, and unless he is just a completely spineless ****, he isn’t going to stand for that very long. No self respecting man would. 

There’s nothing wrong with you and nothing wrong with wanting your cake and eating it to. 

It’s that your sexual desires are at odds with the man and the marriage that you are wanting to remain with. 

And I would even say you ARE very much marriage material since you are going through this much anguish to remain married. 

You just aren’t monogamous wife material for your husband.


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## oldshirt

blackclover3 said:


> how did you find these candidates?


She has a porn site where she posts pictures of her lady bits.


----------



## sokillme

Thatredhead said:


> I get that it is painful for him, which is why I haven't done it yet. I can't fully understand WHY it is painful because my world view has changed and I have become so much more liberal and free than he is that I've almost forgot all the repression and hang up I grew up with and that he still has. But that said, I respect that he has issues still and I don't want to cause him pain. There are more issues than what I've posted here.
> 
> What do I think I will get out of sex with other people? Liberation. Validation. Education. Exploration. Adventure. Fun. Hell, even disappointment would be interesting.
> 
> How do I think my life will change for the better? Well a huge dose of self respect for one. That awful FOMO would be gone. It is humiliating to have only slept with one person. It's almost as bad as being the 40 year old virgin. I'd feel a sense of autonomy, for sure. That's what I want the most. The feeling of having control and final say over my own body. I've never had that.


So are the issued ED? Just a guess but this would also be typical of this situation. That is a different thing. You will get better advice if you give us all the information. The board is anonymous.

If it's not then this is really about perspective. It's wrong for you to call something that very well may have been a choice for him repression. It's OK if you feel differently but it's not a failing of his that he doesn't see it that way. He doesn't have issues, he has different priorities then you.

My perspective which is no reflection on this situation is that sex is great but it's sex. It feels good for about 10 mins afterwords, some sex is better then others and that can be with the same person. I think what makes sex great is the ability to build intimacy by having it. I like knowing my wife differently then every other person in this world, at least in the last 20 years. I wouldn't risk my whole life over it though. I say that to say this very well be your husbands perspective, that doesn't make him repressed in anyway.

I think it's strange that you think the amount of people you have sex with has any baring on you self respect but I honestly think this isn't going to work out for you the way you think. I really think you should talk to someone about that because I don't think having a bunch of sex is going to change this struggle you are having.

The sense I get is as you have gotten older you feel like you were forced into the life you have and you are not very happy about it. I wonder though if this would have been your take 5, 10 years ago, which lead to the question if it will be in 5 or 10. This is a problem with the short term thinking in affairs.

Overall this is really about your autonomy and agency when you were young. I strongly suggest you deal with that first before blow up your life. Lots of people blow up their lives trying to solve childhood problems and never even get close to fixing the true issues.

You will need to negotiate how you deal with that going forward and you will having orgies or being celibate. If you have a bunch of sex with other men and it doesn't solve this problem or causes other problems (which I would bet money on) then you take may be that your only chance was when you were young. Even then nothing will have changed. Your childhood was what it was you will have to accept it if you are too overcome your struggle.

Still, acting like your husband isn't as enlightened as you are because he doesn't want to bring other folks into your bedroom is just a form of gaslighting. It's typical of some very shallow advice and thinking you may see on the internet but it doesn't make it any less wrong.

At the end of the day, given your husbands perspective I see no way you can continue to have a healthy marriage or probably a marriage at all and go down the road you are headed.

Even that at the may be the choice. Don't force your husband to watch you have sex with other men it's just cruel.


----------



## Thatredhead

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Life Science, or Music Appreciation Phd?


Geology. I'm working towards my degree so perhaps I used the word too liberally. I am in school currently.

ETA: Sex is not the only education I was denied while I was young. I was not allowed any post secondary education. I have had a lot of catching up to do.


----------



## blackclover3

oldshirt said:


> She has a porn site where she posts pictures of her lady bits.


is there a link?


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> I agree totally that I should never have gotten married. I am not marriage material and I never have been. But I'm stuck in it now and trying to make the best of it.
> 
> Fair warning to anyone reading this, don't marry good little Christian virgins. Don't BE a good little Christian virgin. It's a wholesale recipe for disaster.


I want to address this a little further as think you are going off the rails a bit here. 

Seeing how much torment and misery you have gone through to remain married, I think you ARE marriage material. 

Someone who wasn’t marriage material would’ve simply packed up and walked out at some point and never looked back. 

Now I’m not saying you don’t have issues and a lot of baggage and problems. But you obviously DO value marriage and you have at least this far upheld your end of the bargain despite your misery. 

So I don’t think it is an accurate statement to say you aren’t marriage material. 

You’re not JW witness material and your not cut out to live the way that particular sect and your FOO said you should. But you’ve thus far actually been a good, dutiful marriage partner...thus far. 

And while you are denouncing monogamy, something you need to keep in mind is in order for any monogamous marriage to work, there need to be at least a basic level of mutual sexual attraction and desire. 

And for sexual exclusivity to work, it needs to be at least fundamentally satisfying sex for both parties.

You don’t have any of that with your H so of course to feel overly strained and deprived and chronically frustrated. 

Now maybe you are correct and you aren’t fundamentally monogamous,, but we have no way of knowing since you’ve always been yoked to one man and one man only. 

You simply don’t know. 

There’s a lot of things you don’t know about yourself because you were programmed to be what others wanted you to be for so long. 

A lot of women were brought up this way. That’s why we have movies like Thelma and Louise and Eat, Pray, Love. 

Some people drink the Kool Aid forever and raise the next generation of Stepford Wives. 

Others snap and reject it all and pull the ejection handle and bail out of that programming. 

You’re about to do the latter. 

Your H is going to be hurt when this all goes down. But he’s kind of made his own bed in this as well to a degree and as long as he can keep his head screwed on straight and get his own act together and get himself shaped up, he will likely be better in the end as well.

I mean let’s face it, the man’s 100lbs overweight and sexually dysfunctional, and his wife is about to go off the rails and start banging guys from a nudie site with or without his approval,, so this is obviously a very toxic relationship for him as well. 

You both made mistakes and you both did dumb things as kids. That’s part of being human. 

Now some here will want you to suffer the consequences of those mistakes forever and sacrifice yourselves at the alter of marriage and commitment and vows etc. 

But I think another part of being human is recognize your mistakes and correct them. Especially when both people are being harmed.


----------



## Young at Heart

oldshirt said:


> When I said to address your marital and sex issues at home, that is not what I had in mind but hey, at least you are talking about it together and that is probably the most important thing.
> 
> You won’t have any trouble finding a woman that wants to rub up against you but I’m not sure where you’re going to find a woman that will want a 100lb overweight man trying to get in between you.
> 
> But who knows, maybe this will be the inspiration to get in shape and motivate him to develop more prowess in the bedroom.
> 
> Either way, often times the specific plan is not as important as the planning and discussion process.
> 
> Just the fact you are addressing it and discussing it is a major step in and of itself.


Actually, she could take her H to a strip club and ask a dancer to give them each lap dances. She would not have any problem paying a stripper $20 to $40 a lap dance to rub up against her overweight man. If he really does have PE, he would be a "cheap date" and he would finish pretty quickly and the rest of the lap dances could be all hers.

Seriously, adding a 3rd person in real life isn't a great idea. She would be better off hiring a sex therapist to help her and her husband address their own sexual issues in a more appropriate setting. 

I wonder if she has realized that her same anger at having her husband select the other woman and the fears it triggers in her might be anything like what she assumed was the problem her H had with her her taking a male lover in a 3 some? I suspect that they both have fears and fantasies about a 3-some. 

Again, not a really great idea, but if she she really does want to have a FMF 3-some, starting at a strip club and having R-rated, simulated sex would probably be better than 3 naked people getting in bed. At least afterwards they could say they never really had "real sex."


----------



## *Deidre*

From what I’ve read about open marriages, someone often catches feelings and the marriage becomes a shell of itself while the two who caught feelings, develop a relationship. It sounds manageable in theory like many things lol, but in reality, not so much.

I didn’t read through this thread yet so this may be a repeat of previous advice.


----------



## Thatredhead

oldshirt said:


> I want to address this a little further as think you are going off the rails a bit here.
> 
> Seeing how much torment and misery you have gone through to remain married, I think you ARE marriage material.
> 
> Someone who wasn’t marriage material would’ve simply packed up and walked out at some point and never looked back.
> 
> Now I’m not saying you don’t have issues and a lot of baggage and problems. But you obviously DO value marriage and you have at least this far upheld your end of the bargain despite your misery.
> 
> So I don’t think it is an accurate statement to say you aren’t marriage material.
> 
> You’re not JW witness material and your not cut out to live the way that particular sect and your FOO said you should. But you’ve thus far actually been a good, dutiful marriage partner...thus far.
> 
> And while you are denouncing monogamy, something you need to keep in mind is in order for any monogamous marriage to work, there need to be at least a basic level of mutual sexual attraction and desire.
> 
> And for sexual exclusivity to work, it needs to be at least fundamentally satisfying sex for both parties.
> 
> You don’t have any of that with your H so of course to feel overly strained and deprived and chronically frustrated.
> 
> Now maybe you are correct and you aren’t fundamentally monogamous,, but we have no way of knowing since you’ve always been yoked to one man and one man only.
> 
> You simply don’t know.
> 
> There’s a lot of things you don’t know about yourself because you were programmed to be what others wanted you to be for so long.
> 
> A lot of women were brought up this way. That’s why we have movies like Thelma and Louise and Eat, Pray, Love.
> 
> Some people drink the Kool Aid forever and raise the next generation of Stepford Wives.
> 
> Others snap and reject it all and pull the ejection handle and bail out of that programming.
> 
> You’re about to do the latter.
> 
> Your H is going to be hurt when this all goes down. But he’s kind of made his own bed in this as well to a degree and as long as he can keep his head screwed on straight and get his own act together and get himself shaped up, he will likely be better in the end as well.
> 
> I mean let’s face it, the man’s 100lbs overweight and sexually dysfunctional, and his wife is about to go off the rails and start banging guys from a nudie site with or without his approval,, so this is obviously a very toxic relationship for him as well.
> 
> You both made mistakes and you both did dumb things as kids. That’s part of being human.
> 
> Now some here will want you to suffer the consequences of those mistakes forever and sacrifice yourselves at the alter of marriage and commitment and vows etc.
> 
> But I think another part of being human is recognize your mistakes and correct them. Especially when both people are being harmed.


You made some good points. Your post was helpful, thank you.


----------



## Young at Heart

Thatredhead said:


> This is where I get hung up. Why can't I love and care for one man, my husband, and still want to have a sexual experience with other people? Why are the two exclusionary? What makes being in love with one person shut off all the other sexual feelings one has for other people? Because if there is a switch that is supposed to flip whe you fall in love, blocking out the need for sex with others, I dont have that switch.
> 
> I agree totally that* I should never have gotten married*. I am not marriage material and I never have been. *But I'm stuck in it now and trying to make the best of it.*
> 
> Fair warning to anyone reading this, don't marry good little Christian virgins. Don't BE a good little Christian virgin. It's a wholesale recipe for disaster.


Personally, I disagree with so much of what this post contains, but I want you to understand why and think about it for a moment.

Yes, when you married was a mistake and why you married was a mistake. You used someone to help you leave an ugly situation. Had you divorced him prior to having children you would have been free to F anyone you wanted for as long as you wanted.

But you owe him something on two counts and you owe your two children as well, so you are not free. Your H married you and he from what you have said is a good provider, good father,

Now back to your critical misunderstanding. If you F someone on a regular basis you will develop feelings for that person. That is how nature and biology work. When you orgasm and have sex you release sex pheromones and hormones that promote bonding. It is just a biological fact. This bonding with a sex partner can convince you that you are in "love" and destroy your marriage. That will mean it will be difficult for you to have a F-buddy and still continue to love your husband and provide him with the love he needs to sustain a marriage where his wife is having sex with other men.

I personally agree with you that virgins marrying virgins is not a great idea. I believe that a couple should have at least some sexual exploration to see if they have some compatibility, or at least enough to explore and build upon. But even more important is discussions on a shared future and a commitment to the institution of marriage. You seem to have lost your commitment to marriage. You are lucky that your husband hasn't. I hope you can find and rekindle your commitment to your marriage before it is too late.

Good luck.


----------



## Young at Heart

Thatredhead said:


> ......I am a scientist. I see sex for what it is and I don't get emotional about it. I dont bond through it.....


Dear Scientist; Read the studies on sexual addiction. You may have Spock-like logic, but you do have a neural system that responds to various sex hormones. It is biological science that your mood can be effected by chemicals, even those released by your body. 

Your logical mind may feel you are incapable of bonding with someone, but can your logical mind say you can never become chemically addicted to all substances? Take a few steps back, can over-eating become an addition? Are there some people who are thrill seekers that become addicted to gambling or other risky behavior? So, the answer is yes, even "rational people" can become physically, chemically, and/or mentally addictive to various behaviors that change brain chemistry. 

If you can't understand that you are not much of a scientists. You may know mathematics by not brain chemistry.


----------



## SunCMars

Thatredhead said:


> I have several candidates in mind but I'm not stuck on any of them. The identity of the third party is meaningless, only that there is one.
> 
> I'm not looking for commitment or a romance with the 3rd party so it doesn't really matter who he is, beyond superficial attraction.


I swear....

I swear that your words are the words of a male pumpkin, and not those of a female red pepper.


Note: we have _Lilith_ living in our skull boat.

And before she got her fill of strange dudes, she was like you.

She was a virgin when she married her man, that SOB _Butch_.

Once freed from him, she ran wild, and no penis was safe.

That said, her words were not yours, hers were different. 
I cannot put my finger on it, or in it.

Maybe, tis' just _wishful_ gender thinking on my end of things.

I am not _King Brian_ who could tell what the discrepancy was, in an instant.

Just a thought.

Aye, and I have too damn many of them.


_Are Dee-_


----------



## oldshirt

Young at Heart said:


> Dear Scientist; Read the studies on sexual addiction. You may have Spock-like logic, but you do have a neural system that responds to various sex hormones.


Even Spok would go into heat every 7 years in the Vulcan mating season of Pon Far. 

(Yes, I’m a geek 🤓)


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Thatredhead said:


> How do I think my life will change for the better? Well a huge dose of self respect for one. That awful FOMO would be gone*. It is humiliating to have only slept with one person.* It's almost as bad as being the 40 year old virgin. I'd feel a sense of autonomy, for sure. That's what I want the most. The feeling of having control and final say over my own body. I've never had that.


You couldn't be more wrong. One of the things I am most proud of is the fact that my wife is the only person I've had sex with. 35 years with one woman has been and continues to be amazing.


----------



## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> You couldn't be more wrong. One of the things I am most proud of is the fact that my wife is the only person I've had sex with. 35 years with one woman has been and continues to be amazing.


I'm not saying anything specific here, just speaking in generalizations, but there are certainly seem to be a lot of holes in this story as it has unfolded. A former JW who was forced to marry in her teens to escape an abusive family situation who is about to become a geologist, married to a morbidly obese supermodel with questionable sexual skills, who had an affair and has women hitting on him all the time. She wants to have sex with a bunch of random guys and just happens to have a website where she posts her intimate pictures of herself. She says she loves her husband but doesn't want a sexual relationship with him, she's looking to "party" with as many guys as possible because even though she doesn't know anything about sex she needs a big strong man to teach her. She'll post about how neglected and trapped she feels but if you address those feelings without mentioning group sex she ignores the posts. There's a lot of strange plot twists in this story. Perhaps I'm confused and missing some pieces that would pull the whole thing together but it's seeming to get more and more odd as it develops. I'm not saying, I'm just saying.


----------



## SurfsUpToday

I know that if I don’t ejaculate at least every other day I ejaculate quickly. One of the reasons I have told me wife I need more sex. Thankfully, my wife orgasims quickly so even when I don’t get sex often enough it is usually ok. Also, either I am big for my wife or she is small so she can’t physically handle me for marathon sex but that is another topic. If you are still reading this the best way to get divorced is to step out of the marriage wether agreed upon or not.


----------



## Jamieboy

Here's the brutal and honest truth as I see it, its classic ILYBNILWY scenario. But that aside, from all your responses, you can have your cake and eat it too. 

The fact your husband has let you rub his face in it that you want to have sex with other dudes speaks a lot about what he will tolerate. 

If you want an open marriage, tell him that's what's happening, go start living the life you want and leave the ball in his court. I'm willing to bet he accepts it as the new status quo because he was willing to accept all your other nonsense. 

Male pride it might be, but if he's willing to accept he's not all you want sexually in principle, he'll accept it in practice. 

I would not, and I suspect most men round here would be divorcing the first time you brought it up.

Its a no lose for both of you really. If he doesn't accept it and you divorce, better now than when you inevitably meet a real player and cheat. Also you won't have robbed him of the chance of having a loving devoted wife for a few more years before you get the courage to get what you want. 

Money wise don't panic, there are loads of providers out there who will take on a woman with kids. Just don't over estimate your sexual market value. 

Mr greys don't want ex Christian virgin girls with an ex and kids. 

Good luck, sorry about the cult thing, I hope your new grass is as lush and green as you hoped.


----------



## Diana7

BigDaddyNY said:


> You couldn't be more wrong. One of the things I am most proud of is the fact that my wife is the only person I've had sex with. 35 years with one woman has been and continues to be amazing.


There is nothing better than faithful loving sex 😊


----------



## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> I'm not saying anything specific here, just speaking in generalizations, but there are certainly seem to be a lot of holes in this story as it has unfolded. A former JW who was forced to marry in her teens to escape an abusive family situation who is about to become a geologist, married to a morbidly obese supermodel with questionable sexual skills, who had an affair and has women hitting on him all the time. She wants to have sex with a bunch of random guys and just happens to have a website where she posts her intimate pictures of herself. She says she loves her husband but doesn't want a sexual relationship with him, she's looking to "party" with as many guys as possible because even though she doesn't know anything about sex she needs a big strong man to teach her. She'll post about how neglected and trapped she feels but if you address those feelings without mentioning group sex she ignores the posts. There's a lot of strange plot twists in this story. Perhaps I'm confused and missing some pieces that would pull the whole thing together but it's seeming to get more and more odd as it develops. I'm not saying, I'm just saying.


Its a mess heading for disaster. I feel for the children.


----------



## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> I'm not saying anything specific here, just speaking in generalizations, but there are certainly seem to be a lot of holes in this story as it has unfolded. A former JW who was forced to marry in her teens to escape an abusive family situation who is about to become a geologist, married to a morbidly obese supermodel with questionable sexual skills, who had an affair and has women hitting on him all the time. She wants to have sex with a bunch of random guys and just happens to have a website where she posts her intimate pictures of herself. She says she loves her husband but doesn't want a sexual relationship with him, she's looking to "party" with as many guys as possible because even though she doesn't know anything about sex she needs a big strong man to teach her. She'll post about how neglected and trapped she feels but if you address those feelings without mentioning group sex she ignores the posts. There's a lot of strange plot twists in this story. Perhaps I'm confused and missing some pieces that would pull the whole thing together but it's seeming to get more and more odd as it develops. I'm not saying, I'm just saying.


I recently came across a podcast called “Good Girls Talk About Sex” where the host interviews a bunch of women and talk about a variety of sexual topics. 

There are a number of episodes where she interviews middle age women who had come from Purity Culture and various very rigid, fundamentalist religious orders.

As wacky as the OP’s case may sound to us, she really doesn’t sound much different from those other women that came from very harsh cultish backgrounds. 

Many of these women grew to not only yearn for other experiences and lifestyles and were frustrated and dissatisfied with their husbands, but some were downright hateful and spiteful. 

All of the ones I have heard interviewed ultimately did go off the rails and completely rejected their religious upbringing and went out into the world and notched the bedposts until the bed darn near collapsed and divorced the H.


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> I recently came across a podcast called “Good Girls Talk About Sex” where the host interviews a bunch of women and talk about a variety of sexual topics.
> 
> There are a number of episodes where she interviews middle age women who had come from Purity Culture and various very rigid, fundamentalist religious orders.
> 
> As wacky as the OP’s case may sound to us, she really doesn’t sound much different from those other women that came from very harsh cultish backgrounds.
> 
> Many of these women grew to not only yearn for other experiences and lifestyles and were frustrated and dissatisfied with their husbands, but some were downright hateful and spiteful.
> 
> All of the ones I have heard interviewed ultimately did go off the rails and completely rejected their religious upbringing and went out into the world and notched the bedposts until the bed darn near collapsed and divorced the H.


And I should add that the interviews I heard, they did end up having lots of therapy and most at the time of the interviews were in reasonably healthy and happy relationships/marriages now.


----------



## Thatredhead

TexasMom1216 said:


> I'm not saying anything specific here, just speaking in generalizations, but there are certainly seem to be a lot of holes in this story as it has unfolded. A former JW who was forced to marry in her teens to escape an abusive family situation who is about to become a geologist, married to a morbidly obese supermodel with questionable sexual skills, *who had an affa*ir and has women hitting on him all the time. She wants to have sex with a bunch of random guys and just happens to have a website where she posts her intimate pictures of herself. She says she loves her husband but doesn't want a sexual relationship with him, she's looking to "party" *with as many guys as possible* because even though she doesn't know anything about sex she needs a big strong man to teach her. *She'll post about how neglected and trapped she feels but if you address those feelings* without mentioning group sex she ignores the posts. There's a lot of strange plot twists in this story. Perhaps I'm confused and missing some pieces that would pull the whole thing together but it's seeming to get more and more odd as it develops. I'm not saying, I'm just saying.


I highlighted the things you got wrong. Firstly my husband never had a full blown affair, at least as far as I know. He had a woman interested in him and they had a close friendship and she came to the house a few times. She sent him nudes and they hung out at parties. I was fine with all of that, but I really didn't like her and it eventually fizzled out. 

I'm not looking to bang a bunch of random dudes. As the post title says, I'm interested in a triad. That means one extra guy. 

As for feeling neglected and trapped, that's just the lot of a wife, IMO. Marriage is a trap, you just don't realize it when you step in it. Divorce is so much easier said than done. My parents went through a nasty one, I'm not so keen to do that to my kids. But I'm also not happy to live the way things are.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> As for feeling neglected and trapped, that's just the lot of a wife, IMO. Marriage is a trap,


If someone is neglected and trapped because they are married, then they are doing it wrong.


----------



## Rob_1

You should had also highlighted the "I was force to marry." No one forced you to marry. You did it as an scape route from your family. Your "marriage is a trap" statement is nothing but pure baloney you are using as justification. No one put or is putting a gun to your head to do anything. If marriage is a trap for you, then have the balls to divorce, and cut the crap.


----------



## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> I highlighted the things you got wrong. Firstly my husband never had a full blown affair, at least as far as I know. He had a woman interested in him and they had a close friendship and she came to the house a few times. She sent him nudes and they hung out at parties. I was fine with all of that, but I really didn't like her and it eventually fizzled out.
> 
> I'm not looking to bang a bunch of random dudes. As the post title says, I'm interested in a triad. That means one extra guy.
> 
> As for feeling neglected and trapped, that's just the lot of a wife, IMO. Marriage is a trap, you just don't realize it when you step in it. Divorce is so much easier said than done. My parents went through a nasty one, I'm not so keen to do that to my kids. But I'm also not happy to live the way things are.


Your marriage may feel like a trap to you because you want to sleep around, but please don't say that marriage generally is because it's not. It's really not.
A good marriage doesn't trap anyone.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Thatredhead said:


> I highlighted the things you got wrong. Firstly my husband never had a full blown affair, at least as far as I know. He had a woman interested in him and they had a close friendship and she came to the house a few times. She sent him nudes and they hung out at parties. I was fine with all of that, but I really didn't like her and it eventually fizzled out.
> 
> I'm not looking to bang a bunch of random dudes. As the post title says, I'm interested in a triad. That means one extra guy.
> 
> As for feeling neglected and trapped, that's just the lot of a wife, IMO. Marriage is a trap, you just don't realize it when you step in it. Divorce is so much easier said than done. My parents went through a nasty one, I'm not so keen to do that to my kids. But I'm also not happy to live the way things are.


Your super religious JW parents went threw a divorce? That doesn't add up.


----------



## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> Your super religious JW parents went threw a divorce? That doesn't add up.


Lots of things don't add up. I'm not saying, I'm just saying.


----------



## Thatredhead

BigDaddyNY said:


> Your super religious JW parents went threw a divorce? That doesn't add up.


JWs are just as fallible as anyone else. In fact, their veneer of holier than thou godliness is just an act. Those who preach the loudest, sin the hardest.


----------



## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> JWs are just as fallible as anyone else. In fact, their veneer of holier than thou godliness is just an act. Those who preach the loudest, sin the hardest.


Maybe the JW's yes.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

I'm begining to think your main purpose here is to complain about marriage and your disdain for it.


----------



## Diana7

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm begining to think your main purpose here is to complain about marriage and your disdain for it.


Which is sad being that she has a husband who loves her and who she says she loves. 
She is actually very blessed but can't see it.


----------



## ConanHub

Thatredhead said:


> I.dont want to put my kids through a divorce, I don't want to go through the hassle and neither does he. I do want my cake and I want to eat it too....I want the happy marriage I have and I want good exciting sex.
> 
> According to you guys I have to pick one.or the other...


You ever hear that song "You can't always get what you want"?

You seem a little out of touch.

You should just level with your husband and tell him he has to start, and continue, working on himself and continue to show improvement.

Obesity is very preventable and curable.

He can't always get what he wants either so I'm not putting this all on you.

He can't eat like a mammoth, not exercise and expect to keep a woman.


----------



## Evinrude58

You did pretty much trap your husband. He’s stuck with you until you divorce him. You trapped the guy so you could get out if your house. He’s been a great husband. Have you ever thought it might be you that us the reason he’s so lousy in bed?
I’ve found that it’s like dancing: gotta have a good partner or it makes you both terrible. Maybe he’s not the bad partner..


----------



## ConanHub

Thatredhead said:


> Now that I know I want better


Out of curiosity, how did you come by this knowledge?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Evinrude58 said:


> You did pretty much trap your husband. He’s stuck with you until you divorce him. You trapped the guy so you could get out if your house. He’s been a great husband. Have you ever thought it might be you that us the reason he’s so lousy in bed?
> I’ve found that it’s like dancing: gotta have a good partner or it makes you both terrible. Maybe he’s not the bad partner..


I was thinking something similar. And another point, how does she know the next guy will be any better. How long will the tryouts go on before she finds the right one?


----------



## Diana7

BigDaddyNY said:


> I was thinking something similar. And another point, how does she know the next guy will be any better. How long will the tryouts go on before she finds the right one?


She just wants to have sex with lots of guys not just one.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Diana7 said:


> She just wants to have sex with lots of guys not just one.


She wants to be single while keeping her plan B. She wants an open marriage.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> Maybe the JW's yes.


What she said applies to all religions.


----------



## Thatredhead

ConanHub said:


> Out of curiosity, how did you come by this knowledge?


A gradual awakening, over a very long time.


Diana7 said:


> She just wants to have sex with lots of guys not just one.


I want the freedom to decide who I have sex with, the full autonomy over my own body, and the option to add a third party to my sex life. I have no plans to become the town bicycle. 

The title of this post is 'triad'. That means a group of 3. I want one extra man, not a random assortment. I do not want to switch h mates or trade up or find a new husband. I'm not looking for a better deal or more money or any of the other things I've been accused of.


----------



## ConanHub

Thatredhead said:


> A gradual awakening, over a very long time.
> 
> I want the freedom to decide who I have sex with, the full autonomy over my own body, and the option to add a third party to my sex life. I have no plans to become the town bicycle.
> 
> The title of this post is 'triad'. That means a group of 3. I want one extra man, not a random assortment. I do not want to switch h mates or trade up or find a new husband. I'm not looking for a better deal or more money or any of the other things I've been accused of.


Well if you are not going to divorce, have a legal separation drawn up and figure out a different place to live so he isn't humiliated.

He doesn't want your solution and he doesn't want to get healthier so go find another man but you can't have your open marriage to do it.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> A gradual awakening, over a very long time.
> 
> I want the freedom to decide who I have sex with, the full autonomy over my own body, and the option to add a third party to my sex life. I have no plans to become the town bicycle.
> 
> The title of this post is 'triad'. That means a group of 3. I want one extra man, not a random assortment. I do not want to switch h mates or trade up or find a new husband. I'm not looking for a better deal or more money or any of the other things I've been accused of.


Your desire for sexual self determinism and satisfaction is reasonable. 

The catch is your H is not down for being your domestic companion and roommate while you get your sexual needs met with another.

That is a fair and reasonable boundary on his end as well. 

If you intend to execute this duelistic mating strategy, You’ll either have to declare your sexual emancipation and do it anyway despite his objections and face whatever ramifications occur from that.

Or do it on the down low and do your best to cover your tracks and not get caught. 

Each of those options will carry its own set of rewards and consequences. 

Only you can do the calculus to determine which cost/benefit analysis will be best for you.


----------



## LeGenDary_Man

Thatredhead said:


> A gradual awakening, over a very long time.
> 
> I want the freedom to decide who I have sex with, the full autonomy over my own body, and the option to add a third party to my sex life. I have no plans to become the town bicycle.
> 
> The title of this post is 'triad'. That means a group of 3. I want one extra man, not a random assortment. I do not want to switch h mates or trade up or find a new husband. I'm not looking for a better deal or more money or any of the other things I've been accused of.


You desire better sexual experience from your husband and your proposition to him is that you want to have another sexual partner? Maybe your husband is upset due to your suggestion? Maybe he feels that he was PLAN B to you all along?

You might find a man who may pleasure you better than your husband but you will have to sleep around to find one. But what kind of men do you think will be willing to have sex with a married woman?

Your husband is not comfortable with your proposition of open marriage = he loves you or still have feelings for you. There is hope in your case. 

You should work on your marriage and try to convince your husband to improve for your sake. 

Maybe find somebody who can convince your husband to work on his marriage?
Maybe invite your husband here? Members here can try to reason with him if he does not listen to you? (Assuming that you have exhausted all options to reason with him)

For perspective:

You are one of those women who have a marriage and a family - how can this be a bad thing? No marriage is perfect to begin with. 
You are NOT among those women who slept around in search for the right one, and were NOT able to settle down with any man and grew old alone. 
Grass is not necessarily greener on the other side. Try to make it greener on your side by watering it.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> What she said applies to all religions.


 Don't agree at all.


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> Your desire for sexual self determinism and satisfaction is reasonable.
> 
> The catch is your H is not down for being your domestic companion and roommate while you get your sexual needs met with another.
> 
> That is a fair and reasonable boundary on his end as well.
> 
> If you intend to execute this duelistic mating strategy, You’ll either have to declare your sexual emancipation and do it anyway despite his objections and face whatever ramifications occur from that.
> 
> Or do it on the down low and do your best to cover your tracks and not get caught.
> 
> Each of those options will carry its own set of rewards and consequences.
> 
> Only you can do the calculus to determine which cost/benefit analysis will be best for you.


And I’m not sure what else we can offer you here. 

What I am understanding as your bottom line is you want the domestic companionship, services and support of your husband, but aren’t sexually satisfied with him so you want an other lover on the side that provides sex, passion and orgasms. 

And you are steadfast against divorcing. 

You have approached your H about doing this but he does not want you getting with other dudes but will consent to bringing in another chick as long as he gets to bang her too, and you are somewhat resentful of that proposition and accuse him of being egotistical. In other words, you don’t really want to do that option and want a BF on the side instead.

Your only other option here is to do it on the down low and risk getting caught and really blowing things up with your H. 

There’s only a few of us on this site with any real world experience with consensual nonmonogamy and we have not been able to provide you the silver bullet or magic pixie dust you were hoping for. 

The only other person here with any real world experience with triads and polyamory etc is @maquiscat and I’m not sure if he has weighed in on this situation yet or not. 

Perhaps he can pull some kind of magic rabbit out of his hat 🐇 🎩 

Otherwise I’m not sure there’s anything else we can offer. 

You’ll either talk your H into or you won’t. 

And you’ll either do it anyway or you won’t.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Thatredhead said:


> A gradual awakening, over a very long time.
> 
> I want the freedom to decide who I have sex with, the full autonomy over my own body, and the option to add a third party to my sex life. I have no plans to become the town bicycle.
> 
> The title of this post is 'triad'. That means a group of 3. I want one extra man, not a random assortment. I do not want to switch h mates or trade up or find a new husband. I'm not looking for a better deal or more money or any of the other things I've been accused of.


You have no other sexual experience. 
What makes you think you will find the right 3rd person that can satisfy you? 
What is that person wants more than to be the third wheel? 
What if you tire of that third person? If you were single none of these things would really be a problem, but you aren't single. 

Also, will you still be having sex, with your husband or will he be left to fend for himself sexually? What would your husband be getting out of this arrangement? I know you will say the freedom to sleep with someone else too, but it seems he really only wants you.


----------



## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> A gradual awakening, over a very long time.
> 
> I want the freedom to decide who I have sex with, the full autonomy over my own body, and the option to add a third party to my sex life. I have no plans to become the town bicycle.
> 
> The title of this post is 'triad'. That means a group of 3. I want one extra man, not a random assortment. I do not want to switch h mates or trade up or find a new husband. I'm not looking for a better deal or more money or any of the other things I've been accused of.


So you would just have sex with the same man over and over? Or a few different men.


----------



## sokillme

OP I mean this with all do respect, you are very clearly dealing with issues that a "triad" is not going to fix and is almost certainly to just create other issues, you should go get some counseling first. Your problems won't be solved and all your resentment will still be there.

It my very well be that you should get divorced but where you are now is in a place where you are libel to hurt yourself more.


----------



## oldshirt

LeGenDary_Man said:


> You might find a man who may pleasure you better than your husband but you will have to sleep around to find one. What kind of men do you think will be willing to have sex with a married woman?


Oh once the word goes out they will be lined up down the street and crawling all over themselves like crabs in a bucket. 

She’ll actually have MORE men applying and auditioning to be her side piece than she would if she were a single woman on the actual dating market. She would need her own HR staff to do go through the applications and schedule interviews and tryouts and such. 

The issue will be sustainability if she really does want to keep to just one BF.

She’ll need to change her verbiage to “one guy at any given time.” 

Most are just going to want to hit it and quit it after a few times unless she’s really hot. 

Others are going to come and go depending on if they get new GFs or if their GF/wife catches them etc. 

As in all things having to do with men and sex, getting them into your bed is too easy. 

Getting them to do what you want is harder.

And getting the good ones to stick around is darn near impossible.


----------



## As'laDain

Thatredhead said:


> A gradual awakening, over a very long time.
> 
> I want the freedom to decide who I have sex with, the full autonomy over my own body, and the option to add a third party to my sex life. I have no plans to become the town bicycle.
> 
> The title of this post is 'triad'. That means a group of 3. I want one extra man, not a random assortment. I do not want to switch h mates or trade up or find a new husband. I'm not looking for a better deal or more money or any of the other things I've been accused of.


I'm one of the polyamorous people here. I have two long term partners and still occasionally date others. So take this to heart when I say this...

Your husband isn't ok with non-monogamy, so it isn't likely to work. If your husband is so sensitive about his performance in bed that he won't do anything to improve himself, then his insecurities will almost certainly sabotage any positive aspect of your life if someone else is involved with you.


----------



## Evinrude58

we don’t have a link to the naked pics yet????
This thread needs some energy.😋


----------



## TexasMom1216

Diana7 said:


> So you would just have sex with the same man over and over? Or a few different men.


She's said over and over she wants to have sex with whoever she wants. Open marriage means you sleep with whoever you feel like, whenever you feel like, and keep your spouse around as a plan B. You're struggling to figure out the rules, Diana, because there are none. She doesn't want to be married, she just wants someone to pay her bills while she fools around and she doesn't love him so she doesn't care what he does. It's a sad, pathetic, awful situation and I feel for that poor man.


----------



## maquiscat

Thatredhead said:


> I dont think monogamy is the natural default for humans. It is a cultural and societal norm for much of humanity now, but it wasn't always. It doesn't make biological sense for humans to have one lifelong mate. Monogamy is a choice, most people just don't realize it's being made for them without their consent or knowledge by our current social and religious conditioning.


I'm going to jump in later on your specific issues, but I want to address this here. Monogamy, in my experience, is a natural default for humans. There isn't one. I would say that it is the majority as most people world wide tend more towards monogamy than other types, even in areas where other types are allowed. But just like a more than significant number are naturally left handed or ambidextrous, so too is a goodly portion polyamourous or can engage in either. Monogamy has always been a part of human history, as has polygamy/polyamory, as much as some folks would like to erase the knowledge of that later.


----------



## maquiscat

Rob_1 said:


> Humans are NOT monogamous by nature, never have, never will. If we were monogamous there wouldn't be infidelity within our species. What we do have is deep cultural influences with checks and balances, developed over thousands of years, by all the various cultures that have existed and exist to this day. We CHOOSE TO BE monogamous.
> 
> A big percentage of Humans cannot stay monogamous though, so after a period of time they cheat. Then they have to confront those checks and balances as prescribed in each society's cultural environment.


As I was noting with the OP, from what I can tell, monogamy is a part of human nature. The problem is where some have tried to impose that on those who were not monogamous by nature. It isn't an either/or with us. Some are, some aren't, some can deal with either. Something else to keep in mind, monogamy is about being with one person at a time. It's is not about being with them for life, in and of itself. So those with scruples might end up being serial monogamists, and those without end up going the cheating route, not because they are naturally poly, but because they are not giving up the practicals of the previous relationship.


----------



## oldshirt

maquiscat said:


> I'm going to jump in later on your specific issues, but I want to address this here. Monogamy, in my experience, is a natural default for humans. There isn't one. I would say that it is the majority as most people world wide tend more towards monogamy than other types, even in areas where other types are allowed. But just like a more than significant number are naturally left handed or ambidextrous, so too is a goodly portion polyamourous or can engage in either. Monogamy has always been a part of human history, as has polygamy/polyamory, as much as some folks would like to erase the knowledge of that later.


I want to add on to this that many anthropologists and sociologists etc believe that the more likely default setting is more specifically serial monogamy rather than life-long monogamy.

In other words, people tend be with one person at a time rather than one mate for life.

In the case of @Thatredhead, her pairing with her current husband has ran its course and she no longer sees him as a viable sexual mate. She no longer feels romantically/sexually connected to him and is looking towards her next mate. 

By her own account she would prefer one lover.... just someone who is not her current partner. 

The only difference between her and the common woman on the street is the common woman on the street navigated this dynamic by the age of 20 in college when lost connection to her high school sweetheart and had a number of lovers in college and early-mid 20s. 

Her verbiage is that monogamy is not the natural default setting, and if one were to view monogamy as life-long with one’s first lover, she is absolutely right. Very few people, not even Diana, have lasted with their first lover. 

So while many people believe that they are naturally monogamous, they don’t feel that way once their current relationship has ran its course.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> I want to add on to this that many anthropologists and sociologists etc believe that the more likely default setting is more specifically serial monogamy rather than life-long monogamy.
> 
> In other words, people tend be with one person at a time rather than one mate for life.
> 
> In the case of @Thatredhead, her pairing with her current husband has ran its course and she no longer sees him as a viable sexual mate. She no longer feels romantically/sexually connected to him and is looking towards her next mate.
> 
> By her own account she would prefer one lover.... just someone who is not her current partner.
> 
> The only difference between her and the common woman on the street is the common woman on the street navigated this dynamic by the age of 20 in college when lost connection to her high school sweetheart and had a number of lovers in college and early-mid 20s.
> 
> Her verbiage is that monogamy is not the natural default setting, and if one were to view monogamy as life-long with one’s first lover, she is absolutely right. Very few people, not even Diana, have lasted with their first lover.
> 
> So while many people believe that they are naturally monogamous, they don’t feel that way once their current relationship has ran its course.


There are a lot who have lasted with their first lover though. I know many.


----------



## maquiscat

oldshirt said:


> I want to add on to this that many anthropologists and sociologists etc believe that the more likely default setting is more specifically serial monogamy rather than life-long monogamy.
> 
> In other words, people tend be with one person at a time rather than one mate for life.


Yeah I touched on that in the subsequent post, but it is always good to have another backing you up. I think that is one of the problems with our society, the false concept of one and done with marriage.



> In the case of @Thatredhead, her pairing with her current husband has ran its course and she no longer sees him as a viable sexual mate. She no longer feels romantically/sexually connected to him and is looking towards her next mate.
> 
> By her own account she would prefer one lover.... just someone who is not her current partner.
> 
> The only difference between her and the common woman on the street is the common woman on the street navigated this dynamic by the age of 20 in college when lost connection to her high school sweetheart and had a number of lovers in college and early-mid 20s.
> 
> Her verbiage is that monogamy is not the natural default setting, and if one were to view monogamy as life-long with one’s first lover, she is absolutely right. Very few people, not even Diana, have lasted with their first lover.
> 
> So while many people believe that they are naturally monogamous, they don’t feel that way once their current relationship has ran its course.


Yeah, I have finally caught up, and about to jump in. Wow is all I can say. Glad you tagged me.


----------



## oldshirt

So to add to my point above, if you were to poll 100 people if they were monogamous or nonmonogamous, the vast vast majority would say they are monogamous.

But you were to then ask them how many people they’ve been with (and get them to answer honestly) the vast vast majority would report being with a number of people.

Most of us feel naturally monogamous when we are sexually connected to our current mate.

But when we lose that connection with that mate, the last thing we feel is monogamous. 

So in a sense we are all both monogamous and yet technically not. 

The term used by anthropologists and sociologists et al is serial monogamy where with are monogamous with one person at a time, but over the course of our lives those relationships will eventually run their course and we move on to another.

It can often be heartbreaking and even traumatic as those relationships come to their conclusion, but that and moving on to the next is likely the natural order.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> There are a lot who have lasted with their first lover though. I know many.


Yes but it was conscious choice and was accomplished through much hard work and sacrifice and during that time they did have yearnings and desires for others, they just grit their teeth and suffered through it. 

(And some likely did get with other(s), they just never got caught and/or didn’t tell you about it)

The point being is they had to consciously choose to not follow their instinctual nature. That’s not a bad thing. It’s what separates us from the beasts in the field.


----------



## maquiscat

Thatredhead said:


> We've been married since high school, 20 years this year. I married young to escape a difficult home situation where I was raised in a restrictive religious cult. He was my first sexual experience. I didn't know anything about being a real wife or about real life and hated sex for a long time. After kids that changed. Now I have a sex drive and I'm interested in lots of men and feel cheated out of a fulfilling sex life because I was basically forced into an early marriage. I want everything I missed out on, everything that normal people have before they settle down. BUT...BIG BUT....I love my husband and don't want him to be hurt. We've spoken about this many times and he understands where I'm coming from. However he just can't bring himself to open up the marriage, even though I am more than willing for him to find other partners. I think it would be good for him to have the same experience, as we both missed out. He is completely uninterested. He wishes he could grant me what I want but he says he is worried about pregnancy and disease. I dont really believe that. I think it's male pride or some sort of cultural aversion.
> 
> I know everyone is going to say get a divorce but that's not what either of us wants. At least not yet. We have kids and a home and property and a life. I think it is ridiculous to blow that all up because of sex. There has to be middle ground, some agreement to be reached. I just don't know how to reconcile all of this.
> 
> Anyway, I've been reading here for awhile but haven't seen anything close to my situation.


So I have ben over this thread. In all honesty, I have skipped many of the responses (14 bloody pages!) but I have read all of yours. I'll be hitting highlights as I go through. I see some misconceptions and some things I'm not sure you realized, although I did notice that you have had some things mentioned that are making you think.

And I will say, even if you have not stumbled across them, yours is not the first thread of this nature. And you do have the advantage of there being several people who are of the Ethical Non-Monogamy lifestyles to give you honest answers. One thing that you will notice about us, is that we do make sure people know that ENM is not a marriage problem solution.



Thatredhead said:


> I'm being completely honest. I love this man. He is part of me and I can't imagine a life without him. We literally grew up together.
> 
> I love him. He loves me. I'm just tired of mediocre boring sex and tired of knowing that there is more that I don't know.
> 
> I definitely don't want a plan B. I would never ever marry or get into a serious relationship again. Never ever. Once is enough for this lifetime. I can't emphasize enough how much being married has turned me off the whole institution.
> Quite the quandary isn't it? A woman who despises marriage wants to save the marriage she has, while still finding sexual fulfillment. It does seem like an impossibility, seeing it typed out like that.


Logan's Law #3: Don't ever say never. You might be surprised at how you feel later. You would not be the first to make that declaration and over half of those I know who did, still ended up falling in love again and marrying again. Some were even successful. As much as you might not feel it now, don't dismiss the possibility, except for maybe as a not right now thing. But also don't anticipate doing so. Just take it one day at a time.


Thatredhead said:


> Honestly I think that has everything to do with the religion I was raised in and how I learned to.view marriage as an institution that favored men and demeaned and entrapped women. My husband proved to be an exceptional man, and is different and better than the men I grew up around.
> 
> I have to laugh at those insinuating or flat out saying I'm staying with him for money. It's the exact opposite. We couldn't afford to get divorced if we wanted to. Lawyers aren't cheap and why pay for 2 households when we barely keep.one afloat?
> 
> I.dont want to put my kids through a divorce, I don't want to go through the hassle and neither does he. I do want my cake and I want to eat it too....I want the happy marriage I have and I want good exciting sex.
> 
> According to you guys I have to pick one.or the other...


While I am thinking that this is not really at the heart of the issue, allow me to address it since it's here. Never stay in a marriage for the children. More often than not it actually hurts them. Many parents can co-parent as individuals but not as couples. As for divorce, it honestly is not all that expensive nowadays if there is not a lot of contesting of assets and such. So unless you think he is going to fight you for a lot of the possessions and over child custody, you only need one lawyer and not for long. Again, I don't think this will apply to your overall situation, but it is things to keep in mind and misconceptions to clear up.



Thatredhead said:


> I'm not happy to lie or cheat, I want to avoid that. I suck at lying and I'm too clueless to cheat properly. I want everything open and above board with all parties. Surely this kind of arrangement can't be that off the wall. It seems perfectly rational and logical to me.


Despite what some here will say, it is a valid position and choice. The key is to be ethical in engaging in ENM, which you seem to be wanting to do. So kudos for trying to do the right thing.

Right now I have grandchildren who are ready to do thing with PaPa, so I will come back to the rest later.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

oldshirt said:


> I want to add on to this that many anthropologists and sociologists etc believe that the more likely default setting is more specifically serial monogamy rather than life-long monogamy.
> 
> In other words, people tend be with one person at a time rather than one mate for life.
> 
> In the case of @Thatredhead, her pairing with her current husband has ran its course and she no longer sees him as a viable sexual mate. She no longer feels romantically/sexually connected to him and is looking towards her next mate.
> 
> By her own account she would prefer one lover.... just someone who is not her current partner.
> 
> The only difference between her and the common woman on the street is the common woman on the street navigated this dynamic by the age of 20 in college when lost connection to her high school sweetheart and had a number of lovers in college and early-mid 20s.
> 
> Her verbiage is that monogamy is not the natural default setting, and if one were to view monogamy as life-long with one’s first lover, she is absolutely right. Very few people, not even Diana, have lasted with their first lover.
> 
> So while many people believe that they are naturally monogamous, they don’t feel that way once their current relationship has ran its course.


I think you are right on the money with serial monogamy. To me that seems to be the most "natural" state for humans. We want exclusivity while we are in a given relationship. We each get benefits and pay a cost for that exclusivity. Some, including myself, do their best to keep that exclusivity for life. The reality though, is there are a million ways for a relationship to go south and you have to move on. When we decide the benefits are no longer worth the cost we dissolve the relationship and move on. My wife had two previous monogamous relationships. Well, one was monogamous on her part, but not his. My point is, she is not truly monogamous in the purest definition of the word, she has engaged in serial monogamy. I'm sure if something happened with us I too would become a serial monogamist. 

That is where I think @Thatredhead is at. I think she is monogamous, but her sexual relationship has run its course with her husband. However, instead of doing what I think is the right thing, and moving on to a new romantic relationship, she wants to compartmentalize her life and keep him for safety and comfort of home, while exploring someone else sexually. He wants nothing to do with that, so it is time for them to part ways, but I think she doesn't have the courage to admit it. One thing that is obvious to me is if she does find a good new lover, she won't be having sex with her husband anymore. She seems to have lost all interest there. 

I think she has more issues going on though too. She thinks sex with only one person in her life is humiliating and she thinks finding a new sexual partner will improve her self respect. That is a pretty twisted viewpoint and is based on nothing but assumptions. She also says marriage is a trap, yet it was the tool she used to gain her freedom from oppressive parents and home life. She also think she will just be able to find the one new man to be the third in her "triad". She will have lots of guys that will want to fil that role temporarily, but none are likely to stick around. She said she doesn't want to be the town bicycle, but she is going to need to keep giving new guys a ride. I really think step one for her should be some individual counseling.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> Yes but it was conscious choice and was accomplished through much hard work and sacrifice and during that time they did have yearnings and desires for others, they just grit their teeth and suffered through it.
> 
> (And some likely did get with other(s), they just never got caught and/or didn’t tell you about it)
> 
> The point being is they had to consciously choose to not follow their instinctual nature. That’s not a bad thing. It’s what separates us from the beasts in the field.


Really not sure you are right. Some of the couples I know are still very much in love after 45-50 years or more. 
In both my marriages I never wanted to be with anyone else..


----------



## oldshirt

It’s not our place to determine whether the OP is monogamous vs nonmonogamous or whether she will get with one other person or multiple. 

Only she can determine her own sexual practices and paradigms.

My point is if you are with one person and your sexual attraction and desire for that person has run completely dry - you will will not believe monogamy is a natural programming at that time.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> In both my marriages I never wanted to be with anyone else..


But yet here you are on #2, plus whatever hook ups you had in college and summer camp and that solo vacation or business trip that you will never admit to. 

If we were biologically programmed to be life-long monogamous with only one, you would not have moved on to the 2nd. You would have filled the house with cats and called it good.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Diana7 said:


> Really not sure you are right. Some of the couples I know are still very much in love after 45-50 years or more.
> In both my marriages I never wanted to be with anyone else..


I do think some people are just cut out for monogamy and if two people like that come together I don't think there is any "gritting of their teeth" as @oldshirt said. It comes fairly easy. Sure we all see someone else that may catch our eye from the to time, but I've never had a hard time looking the other way and getting right back to my wife.


----------



## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> I do think some people are just cut out for monogamy and if two people like that come together I don't think there is any "gritting of their teeth" as @oldshirt said. It comes fairly easy. Sure we all see someone else that may catch our eye from the to time, but I've never had a hard time looking the other way and getting right back to my wife.


IMHO, people who claim people aren’t “naturally monogamous” are just making excuses for their infidelity. If they were so confident in what they were doing they’d say “this is my choice.” But instead it’s “you faithful people are going against nature.” Seems a little thin to me, but whatever. Adults can do what they want and it’s not my business unless children are involved, then it’s all of society’s business. (Involved in the sex, as in everyone isn’t a consenting adult. I mean, I have a low opinion of people with a revolving bedroom door when their kids are watching the come and go, but that falls into the “none of my business” category.)


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> But yet here you are on #2, plus whatever hook ups you had in college and summer camp and that solo vacation or business trip that you will never admit to.
> 
> If we were biologically programmed to be life-long monogamous with only one, you would not have moved on to the 2nd. You would have filled the house with cats and called it good.


I was engaged at 18 married at 19, first child at 21. Never went on summer camp(they dont have those here), no business trips or solo vacations. Far too busy bringing up three children and running a home plus various part time jobs. My first marriage ending wasn't due to me wanting another guy and he didn't have another woman. 
Single for 6 years then met my now husband of 17 years. Yes I am monogamous. 100%.


----------



## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> IMHO, people who claim people aren’t “naturally monogamous” are just making excuses for their infidelity. If they were so confident in what they were doing they’d say “this is my choice.” But instead it’s “you faithful people are going against nature.” Seems a little thin to me, but whatever. Adults can do what they want and it’s not my business unless children are involved, then it’s all of society’s business. (Involved in the sex, as in everyone isn’t a consenting adult. I mean, I have a low opinion of people with a revolving bedroom door when their kids are watching the come and go, but that falls into the “none of my business” category.)


👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
People make all sorts of excuses to act badly. We are all monogamous if we choose to be and want to keep the promises we made. If we want a safe and secure home for our children.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Diana7 said:


> 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
> People make all sorts of excuses to act badly. We are all monogamous if we choose to be and want to keep the promises we made. If we want a safe and secure home for our children.


If people want to live like that, it is their right. But while I tolerate it and mostly ignore it, I’m not going to condone it and I will never, ever believe that it’s a healthy environment for children. I don’t think it’s good for kids to see their parents dating, even after divorce. When my H finally leaves me for a cheerleader, if my son is still at home I won’t date. I just don’t think it’s good for kids. That’s probably an extreme stance on it, but I’m ok with that. People don’t have to agree.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> I was engaged at 18 married at 19, first child at 21. Never went on summer camp(they dont have those here), no business trips or solo vacations. Far too busy bringing up three children and running a home plus various part time jobs. My first marriage ending wasn't due to me wanting another guy and he didn't have another woman.
> Single for 6 years then met my now husband of 17 years. Yes I am monogamous. 100%.


But the point is By definition you are serial monogamous because you were monogamous with one, then the other.


----------



## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> IWhen my H finally leaves me for a cheerleader,


Seeing you say this makes me wonder if the OP’s H feels this way too or if he is completely in the dark and clueless and will be blindsided when this all goes down?

Sometimes people instinctively know the clock is ticking down. 

I’ve been blindsided before. 

I’ve also been caught flat footed but should have paid heed to the red flags.

But there was also a time I was involved with someone I was gaw-gaw over and was dancing as hard as I could but I still knew the clock was ticking down and that the final buzzer was ring at some point.

On the surface all seemed well. We were having good dates. Having high-octane porno sex, she was swearing her love and devotion all the time... but I knew the ax was going to come down. 

.....and it did on a sunny Tuesday.

I wonder if he can feel the disturbance in The Force and know that the sands in the hourglass are trickling down as we speak. or if he is high on life and thinks the cosmos is shining on him now that she said she’d do a 3-way with another chick?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> If people want to live like that, it is their right. But while I tolerate it and mostly ignore it, I’m not going to condone it and I will never, ever believe that it’s a healthy environment for children. I don’t think it’s good for kids to see their parents dating, even after divorce. When my H finally leaves me for a cheerleader, if my son is still at home I won’t date. I just don’t think it’s good for kids. That’s probably an extreme stance on it, but I’m ok with that. People don’t have to agree.


Your H isn't going to leave you. I believe he thinks you're too spicy to leave. A compliment.


----------



## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> If people want to live like that, it is their right. But while I tolerate it and mostly ignore it, I’m not going to condone it and I will never, ever believe that it’s a healthy environment for children. I don’t think it’s good for kids to see their parents dating, even after divorce. When my H finally leaves me for a cheerleader, if my son is still at home I won’t date. I just don’t think it’s good for kids. That’s probably an extreme stance on it, but I’m ok with that. People don’t have to agree.


Well I did date after my first marriage ended, but not for years and the kids were all young adults by then and one had left home.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> But the point is By definition you are serial monogamous because you were monogamous with one, then the other.


If you think that then that's fine. It's not how I see it.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Your H isn't going to leave you. I believe he thinks you're too spicy to leave. A compliment.


That’s sweet of you to say. His last gf before me was a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader. It’s prolly a matter of time. 😉


----------



## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> That’s sweet of you to say. His last gf before me was a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader. It’s prolly a matter of time. 😉


Not if he is one of the good guys


----------



## Thatredhead

oldshirt said:


> I wonder if he can feel the disturbance in The Force and know that the sands in the hourglass are trickling down as we speak. or if he is high on life and thinks the cosmos is shining on him now that she said she’d do a 3-way with another chick?


He certainly doesn't seem to get the seriousness of what's going on. Since our last talk the other day, where I again offered him a free hall pass and any woman he wanted, he thinks things are going to be fine. He thinks if we just have more sex, things will get better. He's been affectionate and tender and I'm more miserable than ever. He just refuses to get with it.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> He certainly doesn't seem to get the seriousness of what's going on. Since our last talk the other day, where I again offered him a free hall pass and any woman he wanted, he thinks things are going to be fine. He thinks if we just have more sex, things will get better. He's been affectionate and tender and I'm more miserable than ever. He just refuses to get with it.


Any chance that you are the one that is refusing to face some realities here?

You’re offering him 3somes and other chicks and are at least making it seem like the sex spigot is going to get really turned up. 

So with that as the backdrop, is it actually you that’s not facing facts and being open and honest with him about how bad things are for you and how miserable you are and how close this situation is to the edge of the abyss???


----------



## Married but Happy

Basically, from everything I've read here, you have two choices: stay in a marriage that makes you miserable with the status quo, or leave and seek something more fulfilling. There does not appear to be any viable middle ground that will suffice for you both.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

TexasMom1216 said:


> That’s sweet of you to say. His last gf before me was a Dallas Cowboy cheerleader. It’s prolly a matter of time. 😉


His loss! 🙂 From an objective pov.


----------



## oldshirt

Married but Happy said:


> There does not appear to be any viable middle ground that will suffice for you both.


Yeah, it seems like all her hopes are contingent on him paying the bills and killing spiders but keeping his hands off of her while at the same time being good with her getting all her sexual needs met by some other dude(s).

She’s also pinning a lot of this on the hopes some other gal will have him sexually so he will have sex with the other chick and not want to do it with her. 

I think the factors she’s not grasping is no man with a drop of self respect and dignity would agree to continue to support and be roommates with a gal that was openly banging other dudes but not him.

And I think she’s failing to grasp that even if he could get with some other gal that did want him sexually, that he would probably end up packing up and leaving her for the other chick within weeks if not even days anyway. 

I completely understand that she’s frustrated and dissatisfied and I completely understand her wanting to have her own sexual autonomy and agency. 

But she’s not seeing the big picture beyond the tip of her nose here. 

She’s in as much of a dream world thinking thinking he will continue to support her and be buddies with her as she bangs other guys but not him, as he is in a dream world thinking he is going to be having 3-ways with her and other chicks. 

What she is wanting and what she is pinning her hopes on is just not how the real world works.

They both need some serious come-to-Jesus meetings on the state of their marriage.


----------



## Thatredhead

I never said I wouldn't continue to sleep with my husband. I want the third party IN ADDITION to my husband, not in place of. 

Husbnd and I just spent half the afternoon in bed, he gets plenty of sex lol. I never said anything about cutting him off.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> I never said I wouldn't continue to sleep with my husband. I want the third party IN ADDITION to my husband, not in place of.
> 
> Husbnd and I just spent half the afternoon in bed, he gets plenty of sex lol. I never said anything about cutting him off.


But you will once you start getting your needs met by someone you find desirable and that can satisfy you.

Your husband knows that, that’s why he doesn’t want you getting with someone else.


----------



## As'laDain

Thatredhead said:


> I never said I wouldn't continue to sleep with my husband. I want the third party IN ADDITION to my husband, not in place of.
> 
> Husbnd and I just spent half the afternoon in bed, he gets plenty of sex lol. I never said anything about cutting him off.


Your husband is not interested in non-monogamy. You are not likely to change that. 

This isn't a winning lottery ticket.


----------



## oldshirt

As'laDain said:


> Your husband is not interested in non-monogamy. You are not likely to change that.
> 
> This isn't a winning lottery ticket.


For him it’s worse than simply not picking a winning ticket. It’s a downright losing proposition for him. 

He has everything to lose but no reasonable chance for any benefit out of it.


----------



## Diana7

As'laDain said:


> Your husband is not interested in non-monogamy. You are not likely to change that.
> 
> This isn't a winning lottery ticket.


Unless it's with another woman.


----------



## As'laDain

Diana7 said:


> Unless it's with another woman.


What do you mean? He is not non-monogamous. That won't change with someone else.


----------



## Thatredhead

As'laDain said:


> What do you mean? He is not non-monogamous. That won't change with someone else.


FMF arrangements don't bother him, he's on board for that. It's another man that he's threatened by. And that's not fair.


----------



## Diana7

As'laDain said:


> What do you mean? He is not non-monogamous. That won't change with someone else.


He is happy to have a threesome with another woman but not a man apparently. 
.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> He is happy to have a threesome with another woman but not a man apparently.
> .


As are 99.999999% of the earth’s male population LOL.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Thatredhead said:


> FMF arrangements don't bother him, he's on board for that. It's another man that he's threatened by. And that's not fair.


Life isn't fair. I honestly don't think I could go through with it, but in concept I would be a lot more open to a 3 way with an additional woman than an additional man. There is something about the thought of another man penetrating my wife that sends chills up my spine. It is just the way most men are wired.

Think of it this way. You had a contract with your husband that says you two are exclusive. Now years later YOU want to change it. He did not make that first move. You suggested opening the marriage, he said not interested. You wouldn't give it up so you went fishing for something else. He wouldn't go for a 3-way with another man. You kept fishing and suggested another woman and he said okay. You got what you asked for. Did you really think he would suddenly say, well it's only fair if you get a new dude too? That is shear stupidity to think it would go down like that. 

I've learned a few things from the open marriage crew on here. Number one is both partners must be fully on board to the point they can openly discuss every rule and every nuance about how things will play out. You are no where near that point. Number two is you must have a rock solid marriage with no major issues. Meaning, you can't fix a marriage by opening it. Your marriage is neither rock solid or without issues, yet here you are trying to fix it by opening it up to other sexual partners.

Fair or not, your only choices seem to be live with what you have and try to make the most of it, or divorce and move on to someone new.


----------



## As'laDain

Diana7 said:


> He is happy to have a threesome with another woman but not a man apparently.
> .


Not from what I have read. From what I can tell, she has basically been pestering him about it for years, and he even tried doing things her way, but didn't like it. Simply put, he is monogamous and she doesn't seem to want to accept it. 

I would hardly call it "happy to have a threesome with another woman" when even that has to be dragged out of him. If he were happy with the idea, he would be bringing it up himself.


----------



## oldshirt

As'laDain said:


> Not from what I have read. From what I can tell, she has basically been pestering him about it for years, and he even tried doing things her way, but didn't like it. Simply put, he is monogamous and she doesn't seem to want to accept it.
> 
> I would hardly call it "happy to have a threesome with another woman" when even that has to be dragged out of him. If he were happy with the idea, he would be bringing it up himself.


That depends on how she marketed it to him. 

Before she just said he wanted to get with other guys and that he could get with other chicks too. 

Even the dumbest guy on the planet knows that’s a trap. He may be desperate enough for strange that he agrees to it so he can at least try, but deep down he knows it’s a trap. 

If she presented this to him as she was wanting to experience an FMF or was wanting to rub up against another woman, of course he’s going to agree to that. 

The interpretation I came away with in her post was she was basically so desperate for the touch of anyone else that she basically agreed to his terms and that while she may have been angling for another man somehow, she basically had to pitch the FMF to at least get another human being in her bed. 

As much as I love a good FMF, this is a very sad, dysfunctional and disordered situation.


----------



## manwithnoname

This marriage is a train wreck in the making. 0% chance it will continue with both parties happy.


----------



## Married but Happy

oldshirt said:


> For him it’s worse than simply not picking a winning ticket. It’s a downright losing proposition for him.
> 
> He has everything to lose but no reasonable chance for any benefit out of it.


From what I understand, he can be the big winner if a) he'd lose some weight, and b) deal with his PE. The only reason she wants to open the marriage is because he's unsatisfying sexually and won't deal with it.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> As are 99.999999% of the earth’s male population LOL.


Umm no. Not the good ones anyway. 😉


----------



## Diana7

Married but Happy said:


> From what I understand, he can be the big winner if a) he'd lose some weight, and b) deal with his PE. The only reason she wants to open the marriage is because he's unsatisfying sexually and won't deal with it.


I doubt that would be enough. She wants to have sex with other men because she thinks she 'missed out'.


----------



## Diana7

As'laDain said:


> Not from what I have read. From what I can tell, she has basically been pestering him about it for years, and he even tried doing things her way, but didn't like it. Simply put, he is monogamous and she doesn't seem to want to accept it.
> 
> I would hardly call it "happy to have a threesome with another woman" when even that has to be dragged out of him. If he were happy with the idea, he would be bringing it up himself.


If he wasn't happy with it he wouldn't agree to it despite any pressure.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Diana7 said:


> I doubt that would be enough. She wants to have sex with other men because she thinks she 'missed out'.


I wish I could convince her she didn’t. But sometimes you have to make your own mistakes.


----------



## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> I wish I could convince her she didn’t. But sometimes you have to make your own mistakes.


Yes I agree. It's like watching a car crash but not being able to stop it.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Diana7 said:


> Yes I agree. It's like watching a car crash but not being able to stop it.


Well the truth is that sometimes it’s our mistakes that lead us where we are meant to go. Her youth was stolen from her. She’s never been happy, never had any choice. I think divorcing her husband is the right thing to do; this horrible idea of “open marriage” is just a disaster. But it’s her life.


----------



## oldshirt

Married but Happy said:


> From what I understand, he can be the big winner if a) he'd lose some weight, and b) deal with his PE. The only reason she wants to open the marriage is because he's unsatisfying sexually and won't deal with it.


This was all discussed and was kind of the unanimous recommendation in the first few pages of the thread. 

What I found ironic was she said he was "sensitive" about his weight and PE and didn't like it to be brought up, but yet she discussed getting a hallpass to have sex with other men with him. Given two uncomfortable topics, wouldn't one rather be open address weight and PE vs having sex with other guys? 

But I would also agree that I think she has simply had enough of him and just no longer finds him desirable if she ever did. At this point he could probably poop gold nuggets and she would still rather be with others. 

As hard as it is for some to swallow, some times people simply no longer can stand the touch of their spouse and just want to be with someone else for no other reason that it is someone different.


----------



## jlg07

Thatredhead said:


> He certainly doesn't seem to get the seriousness of what's going on. Since our last talk the other day, where I again offered him a free hall pass and any woman he wanted, he thinks things are going to be fine. He thinks if we just have more sex, things will get better. He's been affectionate and tender and I'm more miserable than ever. He just refuses to get with it.


So is the sex still bad? 
I have a question -- why don't YOU research sex, and when you start fooling around, ask HIM to do something that you've read about -- oral, fingers, etc.. Why don't you play "find the g-spot" (or whatever other body part you want).
You aren't happy -- maybe if you start directing him to things YOU like or wanted to try, you can both learn together how to be better at sex.
Try to ask him that YOU get off first -- any way you like, before he gets his 30 seconds of fame. Maybe this can be a start of learning for the both of you so that you can both have a better sex life within the confines of your marriage?


----------



## As'laDain

Diana7 said:


> If he wasn't happy with it he wouldn't agree to it despite any pressure.


Come on, you know damn well that isn't true. It's possible that he _does_ like the idea, but agreeing to it after having it brought up over and over again, especially when the person bringing it up treats you like you are the reason they can't be happy, doesn't exactly paint that picture. 

It sounds to me like it's something that he thinks would be a fun fantasy, but doesn't actually want. Basically, if he is going to be forced into non-monogamy anyway, it might as well be something he _thinks _will be fun. 

OP seems to be the one that is fantasizing about how happy non-monogamy will make them. I don't get that impression about her husband at all. 

I _do_ think that her husband's insecurity is stopping him from improving himself, but he isn't the one that is trying to open the marriage. 

I'm one of the few people here that is actually in a non monogamous relationship with multiple long term partners. You KNOW that I don't have anything against non-monogamy. But I don't think it will work in this case because from everything OP has said so far, he is monogamous.


----------



## As'laDain

oldshirt said:


> This was all discussed and was kind of the unanimous recommendation in the first few pages of the thread.
> 
> What I found ironic was she said he was "sensitive" about his weight and PE and didn't like it to be brought up, but yet she discussed getting a hallpass to have sex with other men with him. Given two uncomfortable topics, wouldn't one rather be open address weight and PE vs having sex with other guys?
> 
> But I would also agree that I think she has simply had enough of him and just no longer finds him desirable if she ever did. At this point he could probably poop gold nuggets and she would still rather be with others.
> 
> As hard as it is for some to swallow, some times people simply no longer can stand the touch of their spouse and just want to be with someone else for no other reason that it is someone different.


Yeah. I think this is a case of one person being done, and wants to try opening the marriage in order to "have their cake and eat it too". 

I see nothing wrong with having multiple partners, but she just wants sex with other people while having her husband there to keep her life running smooth. 

The best solution would be that he wakes his ass up, gets in shape, deals with the ED, and they get on with life. But... That would mean that she would have to accept that. 

I don't get the impression that she would at this point.


----------



## As'laDain

Thatredhead said:


> He certainly doesn't seem to get the seriousness of what's going on. Since our last talk the other day, where I again offered him a free hall pass and any woman he wanted, he thinks things are going to be fine. He thinks if we just have more sex, things will get better. He's been affectionate and tender and I'm more miserable than ever. He just refuses to get with it.





jlg07 said:


> So is the sex still bad?
> I have a question -- why don't YOU research sex, and when you start fooling around, ask HIM to do something that you've read about -- oral, fingers, etc.. Why don't you play "find the g-spot" (or whatever other body part you want).
> You aren't happy -- maybe if you start directing him to things YOU like or wanted to try, you can both learn together how to be better at sex.
> Try to ask him that YOU get off first -- any way you like, before he gets his 30 seconds of fame. Maybe this can be a start of learning for the both of you so that you can both have a better sex life within the confines of your marriage?


@Thatredhead, could you do the above? Here is something you might try...

Have sex, but restrict it. Basically, make simple rules for fooling around. No touching one night. No PIV another. Or shoot, it doesn't even have to be the whole night. Use toys, different technique's, etc. 

One of the things I did with my wife was having her fantasize about a sexy encounter, while I did the same. Fantasies that involve each other as well as fantasies that didn't, and then tell each other what they were.

I can use toys on my wife and get her off, but I found something interesting... It works better if I am grabbing her body and biting, caressing, etc, while she manipulates the toy. It works even better if I don't let her take control of it until I already have her worked up. 

I don't see a reason why your husband couldn't learn to do stuff like that. The PE wouldn't stop it. 

But would you be able to accept it at this point? Or would it make you miserable?


----------



## maquiscat

I'm back for some more..


Thatredhead said:


> It angers me to some degree that he has this kind of control over me and my life choices.


He does not unless you chose to give him that control and power. But understand that while you have the power to make your own life choices, that doesn't mean that he has to agree or abide by them. He has those same choices, including whether he limits those choices because of his marriage to you.



> I don't want to blow up my life over sex. While this one issue is very important to me, it's not worth ruining my kids lives over. It would seem though that the consensus is that divorce is inevitable one way or another.


This means that you might have to go without then. While you are willing to compromise, that doesn't mean he is or has to. You will have to make the decision as to whether or not you will do without the sex.



Thatredhead said:


> We spitballed a few ideas and then the topic of threesomes came up. He's fine with adding a woman but draws the line at a man. I'm ok with either, but got angry that he got to make that decision. That there is pure male ego and male pride and I'm not having ìt. He is fine if I sleep with another woman, but not a man.


You are incorrect here. This is not male ego, but sexual preference. This is different than if you were going and having sex separate from him. But as part of a threesome, he has every much a say in the third partner as you do. If you wouldn't do another woman and he wouldn't do another man, because you are both repulsed by same sex relations for yourself (which holds no bearing on you view on others engaging in such), then you are at an impasse. Now as you state later, you are alright with being with a woman, so that isn't the issue here. You are upset that you are being limited. But it is a reasonable limit _when talking about a threesome_, even while it is not necessarily reasonable for you striking out on your own.



Thatredhead said:


> This is where I get hung up. Why can't I love and care for one man, my husband, and still want to have a sexual experience with other people? Why are the two exclusionary? What makes being in love with one person shut off all the other sexual feelings one has for other people? Because if there is a switch that is supposed to flip whe you fall in love, blocking out the need for sex with others, I dont have that switch.


There is no reason why you can't have both, as long as you are doing so ethically. Which means that you are not going behind backs, and you two are in agreement as to how the ENM looks. There is no one true way beyond that. Sexual attraction and romantic attraction are not automatically linked, although often so, and as such you can have one without the other. But you actually have approached this in the ethical manner, in that you are seeking how to do this correctly. It comes down to whether or not he will be in step with you are not, and then what you do afterwards.



Thatredhead said:


> Fair point. I am in general an unemotional and logical person. I am a scientist. I see sex for what it is and I don't get emotional about it. I dont bond through it.
> It would be uncharacteristic for me to get stars in my eyes over sex when I never have had a single romantic feeling in my life. I'm actually uncomfortable with the thought of bonding over sex. It seems like a foolish thing to do.


I am going to say that I doubt that you are not romantic or don't get emotional over sex. You might not fall into the tropes of storytelling, but I'd be willing to bet that they are both there. That said, no not everyone bonds over sex, or not sex alone. In fact most people need more than sex to bond into a marriage. And for some, especially asexuals, but others as well, sex is not part of that bonding equation.


Thatredhead said:


> I'd feel a sense of autonomy, for sure. That's what I want the most. The feeling of having control and final say over my own body. I've never had that.


You have that now. You might have been told otherwise, or believed otherwise, but it is actually there. But that doesn't relieve you of any ethical considerations. Whether you feel forced into the marriage or not, you have said that you currently wish to maintain it. As such you have responsibilities towards your husband, which would include coming to an agreement on this or ending the marriage openly.

Posting this, and I will start another post if I see a need to address more points.


----------



## maquiscat

Thatredhead said:


> A gradual awakening, over a very long time.
> 
> I want the freedom to decide who I have sex with, the full autonomy over my own body, and the option to add a third party to my sex life. I have no plans to become the town bicycle.
> 
> *The title of this post is 'triad'. That means a group of 3.* I want one extra man, not a random assortment. I do not want to switch h mates or trade up or find a new husband. I'm not looking for a better deal or more money or any of the other things I've been accused of.


A triad is three people in a relationship. Typically this means that each one is in a relationship with the other 2. Given your husband's reactions, I doubt that you would get this even with another woman. Most likely, you would be looking at a V relationship with you at the point. The other two would not be in a relationship with each other. This is a perfectly valid combination and has even been done with Kitchen table poly (everyone living in the same physical household. But it is much more common for poly units that are spread among households. Triad and V are also commonly used for poly relationships, not open marriage ones. Mind you, I do actually teach that the second rule in poly (and BDSM and well life really) is that there is no one true way. So, label use will vary, and you are not required to adhere by the conventions I put out. However, they are the most common uses and it's good to know so that you understand why some people may get confused by your label usage.


----------



## maquiscat

oldshirt said:


> I think the factors she’s not grasping is no man with a drop of self respect and dignity would agree to continue to support and be roommates with a gal that was openly banging other dudes but not him


I'm going to alter this to relatively few men would do it. There are indeed some out there, and significant in numbers from the perspective of low percentage of a huge population. But even among the open and the poly, most people are wanting sex from all their partners. And the OP's husband is certainly not among those few men, from all she wrote.


----------



## maquiscat

BigDaddyNY said:


> I've learned a few things from the open marriage crew on here. Number one is both partners must be fully on board to the point they can openly discuss every rule and every nuance about how things will play out. You are no where near that point. *Number two is you must have a rock solid marriage with no major issues.* Meaning, you can't fix a marriage by opening it. Your marriage is neither rock solid or without issues, yet here you are trying to fix it by opening it up to other sexual partners.


Slight correction in that there can be issues within a marriage, even major ones. Just so long as the open or poly aspect isn't intended to fix these issues, you should be good to go. In the OP's case, indeed she is trying to use the open marriage to fix a problem that goes beyond simply her getting more and varied sex.


----------



## maquiscat

Thatredhead said:


> He certainly doesn't seem to get the seriousness of what's going on. Since our last talk the other day, where I again offered him a free hall pass and any woman he wanted, he thinks things are going to be fine. He thinks if we just have more sex, things will get better. He's been affectionate and tender and I'm more miserable than ever. He just refuses to get with it.


SO let me make sure I have the situation straight based on this post. It is not the quantity of sex that is the issue, but the lack of variety from different men, and occasionally women, that you are lacking? That he could provide you with sex (and for the sake of the argument let's assume good sex at the very least), and that won't solve the problem, because what you want is sex with other people, correct?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

maquiscat said:


> SO let me make sure I have the situation straight based on this post. It is not the quantity of sex that is the issue, but the lack of variety from different men, and occasionally women, that you are lacking? That he could provide you with sex (and for the sake of the argument let's assume good sex at the very least), and that won't solve the problem, because what you want is sex with other people, correct?


At one point she said it was a lack of good sex with her husband. However, later on she said it was humiliating to have only slept with one person. She also mentioned that sex with others would address her FOMO. I think what she wants is freedom to sleep around while keeping her safety net at home.


----------



## Numb26

BigDaddyNY said:


> At one point she said it was a lack of good sex with her husband. However, later on she said it was humiliating to have only slept with one person. She also mentioned that sex with others would address her FOMO. I think what she wants is freedom to sleep around while keeping her safety net at home.


Cake eater


----------



## Thatredhead

BigDaddyNY said:


> At one point she said it was a lack of good sex with her husband. However, later on she said it was humiliating to have only slept with one person. She also mentioned that sex with others would address her FOMO. I think what she wants is freedom to sleep around while keeping her safety net at home.


All of the above is true. Bad sex at home, fomo, and I want to rectify my past. I dont want to feel this dreadful embarrassment for having only ever been with one person. I want to learn what I missed out on. But that's al for me, my sense of self and well being. I don't want my needs being fulfilled to change my life or my kids lives. 
Someone called me a cake eater. Hell yes, I want a cake and to eat it too. What's the point otherwise. I want the best of both worlds and I'm not ashamed to say so.


----------



## oldshirt

As'laDain said:


> @Thatredhead, could you do the above? Here is something you might try...
> 
> Have sex, but restrict it. Basically, make simple rules for fooling around. No touching one night. No PIV another. Or shoot, it doesn't even have to be the whole night. Use toys, different technique's, etc.
> 
> One of the things I did with my wife was having her fantasize about a sexy encounter, while I did the same. Fantasies that involve each other as well as fantasies that didn't, and then tell each other what they were.
> 
> I can use toys on my wife and get her off, but I found something interesting... It works better if I am grabbing her body and biting, caressing, etc, while she manipulates the toy. It works even better if I don't let her take control of it until I already have her worked up.
> 
> I don't see a reason why your husband couldn't learn to do stuff like that. The PE wouldn't stop it.
> 
> But would you be able to accept it at this point? Or would it make you miserable?


The key points here are your last two sentences. 

All of the suggestions above and by the other posters are valid when you have two people that love each other, have sincere attraction and desire for each other and want to make things work between each other and have an enthusiastic love life together. 

The problem is we are dealing with the 350lb Bearded Woman Principle here. Ask yourself what could a 350lb bearded woman with bad breath, BO and covered in warts do to make you want to have hot, passionate sex with her? Will discussing what fantasies you have of her work? Toys? What techniques could you teach her that would make you hot for her? If she ensured that you orgasm'd first, would that make you yearn for intimacy with her? 

In short, is there anything at all that could be done, other than her stepping into some kind Molecular Transformation and Reintegration Modulator and transforming into a completely different person make you want to be with her? 

The OP sees her H as a man would see a 350lb bearded woman. She wants to sleep with men that aren't him. Teaching him new tricks does not turn him into someone else. 

Yes, he lack of sexual skilz is a component of her discontent. Yes, he needs to learn new skilz and correct his PE and he certainly needs to lose 100lbs if he wants to live a long and vigorous life and stand any chance of getting with any woman. 

But toys and fantasies and new sexual techniques don't work when someone is repulsed by you and yearns for other people in the first place.


----------



## Diceplayer

You sound like a spoiled little brat. Nearly every post is ‘I want, I want, I want….it isn’t fair.’ Marriage consists of putting others first, compromise and sacrifice. I feel sorry for your husband.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> All of the above is true. Bad sex at home, fomo,


Can someone tell me what FOMO is? I haven't heard that one before.


----------



## maquiscat

oldshirt said:


> Can someone tell me what FOMO is? I haven't heard that one before.


Fear Of Missing Out

It was a while of it being used before I found out myself.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> All of the above is true. Bad sex at home, fomo, and I want to rectify my past. I dont want to feel this dreadful embarrassment for having only ever been with one person. I want to learn what I missed out on. But that's al for me, my sense of self and well being. I don't want my needs being fulfilled to change my life or my kids lives.
> Someone called me a cake eater. Hell yes, I want a cake and to eat it too. What's the point otherwise. I want the best of both worlds and I'm not ashamed to say so.


What you missed out on is what you are going to experience going forward. Instead of experiencing it in your past, you are going to experience it in your future. 

You will experience the thrill and heart pounding excitement and the anticipation of "What IF?.." with new partners. You will experience a rush of hormones and arousal and desire when you see and touch someone that is actually physically fit and attractive to you. And you will even experience orgasms with someone that has the sexual prowess and skilz to get you off. 

But you'll also experience the heartbreak and drama and turmoil and sadness of your current relationship crumbling into shattered pieces. That's what everyone that bed hopped in their youth experiences.

You'll experience getting all excited thinking this new you're starting to rub up against will be "The One" only to have him be a dud in bed too, or be a selfish lover that give a few pumps until he finishes and then gets up and leaves. Every girl that's been with any number of men have had that happen before too. 

And you'll experience some hot, hunky lovers that make your toes curl up your butthole that you become obsessed with and want to be with every moment of the day, but then you find out that they are banging every other chick in town and you were just Tuesday afternoon's appointment. Every chick that's played the field has experienced that. 

And you'll experience finding a good person, hitting it off well, getting involved, you like him, he likes you, all goes well for awhile, and then in time it just doesn't work and you split up and you are back to crying tears in your pillow again. 99.9% of the Earth's population experienced that at various times in their life. 

So I will say this - if what you think you've missed out on and what you want to experience are all fun and exciting things and you only want to experience that because that is all that you think you missed - then you are living in Lah Lah Land. 

But if you are looking at that heartrending, disappointing, depressing and disparaging stuff and yearning for that as well and seeing that as important milestones that you missed out on in the human experience and you want to experience those heartaches and moments of despair as well.... then I would say you probably should proceed because those are some of the things that humans do experience and learn from and what makes us who we are today. 

If you sincerely want to experience and learn to navigate the bad as well as the good, then you might as well cut the cord with her husband and get started today because every 19 year old that played the field and had fun and excitement in college, had to begin that journey by cheating on and dumping her first love high school sweetheart and dealing with that baggage and fallout first. 

All you did by marrying young was delay a lot of the heartache and turmoil. You didn't just miss out the fun and excitement. You missed out on a lot of pain and heartache as well. If you want to embrace that aspect as well. Go for it. 

But if you think that you can find a silver bullet and somehow have all the fun and excitement of playing the field without the pain and turmoil and heartache - you wrong.


----------



## maquiscat

Thatredhead said:


> I don't want my needs being fulfilled to change my life or my kids lives.
> I want the best of both worlds and I'm not ashamed to say so.


Thing is, this will change your life and that of your husband and kids. The kids might not be aware of the source of the change, but they will be aware of the change itself. Having the best of both worlds is not unobtainable, but it does take work and cooperation by all involved, even if it's just for sex and not romantic relationships.


----------



## oldshirt

maquiscat said:


> Having the best of both worlds is not unobtainable, but it does take work and cooperation by all involved,


The catch here is I think she is thinking she can have the fun and frivolity and party time she missed in her youth while at the same time avoiding any drama and heartache and pain.

What I think she is failing to realize is that back when people were young and partying and riding the c--k carousel, they were also having lots of drama and turmoil and pain as well. 

On one hand she is now a full grown woman and may have some more tools in her toolbox to navigate some of those pitfalls and quagmires better than a 19-20some year old woman.

But at the same time she has a home, spouse and children that will also be impacted.

The basket that she is needing to place her eggs in here in order for this to work is her husband agreeing to stand by her and support her and maintain the status quo at home, while he watches her get dressed and paint her nails to go out and screw other men while he gets nothing out of it in return. It's nothing but a lose-lose proposition for him.

If she wants to be a 19 year old and live the party life of a 19 year old, then she is going to have to be as self-centered, impulsive, reckless and irresponsible as a 19 year and she is going to have to hurt and detach from her first love as 19 year olds that party and ride the carousel do.

And she will have the extra burden of disrupting the lives of her children.

So yes technically this may not be completely unattainable in the strict sense of the word. But the key factor that this is all hinging on is not really showing any signs of embracing it.


----------



## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> If she wants to be a 19 year old and live the party life of a 19 year old, then she is going to have to be as self-centered, impulsive, reckless and irresponsible as a 19 year and she is going to have to hurt and detach from her first love as 19 year olds that party and ride the carousel do.


On the surface, it appears that she is well on her way to doing exactly this. To other middle aged people, her level of entitlement and self-entitlement appears somewhat shocking. 

But I can't help but wonder if some of that is due to the fact she didn't experience that particular stage of life and simply pushed it back and delayed it. Kind of like the scrawny male physics nerds who have never had a date until they are out of college, working as engineers with high incomes and finally put on beef and grow into themselves and get out into the world and learn some social skills and now they are banging every chick that walks by. 

She's a late bloomer. But late bloomers don't skip over and avoid the drama and turmoil of life. They simply delay it and have to deal with it as 40 year olds instead of as 20 year olds. 

The catch is society expects that 20 year olds will be dumb and just kind of rolls their eyes and shake their heads when 20 years olds make azzhats of themselves. 

When a 40 year old with minor children does it, the world is a little less tolerant and forgiving.


----------



## jlg07

Thatredhead said:


> I dont want to feel this dreadful embarrassment for having only ever been with one person


?? I don't get this -- why are you embarrassed that you've only had one sex partner? I know a few couples like that (happily married and for decades) where their H/W is the ONLY sex partner they have EVER had.
I see this as pretty awesome -- not embarrassing.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

jlg07 said:


> ?? I don't get this -- why are you embarrassed that you've only had one sex partner? I know a few couples like that (happily marriage and for decades) where their H/W is the ONLY sex partner they have EVER had.
> I see this as pretty awesome -- not embarrassing.


I am totally freaking proud that I've only had one sexual partner. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't my plan from the start, but it worked out that way and I am very happy about it.


----------



## oldshirt

I’ve seen accounts by men having an existential crisis by only being with one person long term, But I can’t say I’ve ever heard a woman even mention it before 🤔


----------



## Thatredhead

jlg07 said:


> ?? I don't get this -- why are you embarrassed that you've only had one sex partner? I know a few couples like that (happily married and for decades) where their H/W is the ONLY sex partner they have EVER had.
> I see this as pretty awesome -- not embarrassing.
> 
> 
> 
> Its the lack of experience, lack of skill, lack of sophistication. It's the clinging to old outdated patriarchal morals and values. What's worse is that since my youth was essentially stolen from me, I had no say in the matter. I feel manipulated and forced into being this sexually inadequate. Like if I'd had my own way, I would have had a normal sex life with a normal amount of partners and would have had that to look back on with some pride and satisfaction. I would have had that period in my life where I was in control of my own life and my own body belonged to me. I never had that and the lack of it is an open festering wound in my soul.
> 
> I went from being someone's daughter to being someone's wife. Never had a chance to just be me or choose my own path without coercion.
> 
> If I'd started having sex in my teens like normal people do, I almost certainly wouldn't be married now. I'd have had the knowledge base to make an informed decision.
> 
> Purity culture is abuse.
Click to expand...


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Did your husband coerce you into marrying you?

What is a normal number of sexual partners and what makes you think one isn't "normal"?

Look, what you want is the single life. Problem is you are married and have children. You can't get a do over. Life doesn't work that way. And you are under the delusion that you can simply add a third man to you life and it will fill this void you think you have.

Why not be thankful that you have a husband that loves you and beautiful children. Make the most of what you have rather than blowing it all up and starting over?


----------



## oldshirt

I agree that purity culture is often abusive and destructive.

My suggestion is to get into individual therapy with a secular therapist who is trained and education in western, evidence-based therapy and not any kind of faith-based counseling. 

The end result of you getting divorced and moving on with your own life will probably be the same.

But at least you can do it from a place of mindfulness and self determination in a healthy and less destructive manner.


----------



## oldshirt

And I strongly disagree that there are no do overs in life. 

Each new day brings the opportunity of a better life. 

There will be costs and ramifications is all choices including the choice of remaining in status quo.

The art of being human is to do your own calculus and decide what set of costs and benefits will be best for you.


----------



## Thatredhead

BigDaddyNY said:


> Did your husband coerce you into marrying you?
> 
> What is a normal number of sexual partners and what makes you think one isn't "normal"?
> 
> Look, what you want is the single life. Problem is you are married and have children. You can't get a do over. Life doesn't work that way. And you are under the delusion that you can simply add a third man to you life and it will fill this void you think you have.
> 
> Why not be thankful that you have a husband that loves you and beautiful children. Make the most of what you have rather than blowing it all up and starting over?


I was coerced into marriage by my extremely religious family. I faced shunning if I didn't immediately marry my unbelieving boyfriend. So I married him, rather than stay in that toxic home. 

I don't know how many partners is normal, but definitely more than 1! 

I don’t want the single life. I don't party or go to bars.I've never been to a bar. I don't want to start. That holds no appeal for me. I'm a nerd. I like books and quiet, and being alone outdoors. I do not want to join a singles scene. I simply want the freedom to choose who I have sex with. Men are easy enough to find, even in my quiet life. I dont need to start dating or partying to pick up a guy. 

I think I'm being very straightforward with what I want here. Sex with who I want, no strings attached. A friend with benefits but no commitment. An extra lover. I dont want a relationship or a boyfriend. I'm not in need of emotional stuff or any of that nonsense. 

I'm both thankful and grateful for my husband and children. That doesn't stop me from needing more than my lot in life.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Thatredhead said:


> I was coerced into marriage by my extremely religious family. I faced shunning if I didn't immediately marry my unbelieving boyfriend. So I married him, rather than stay in that toxic home.
> 
> I don't know how many partners is normal, but definitely more than 1!
> 
> I don’t want the single life. I don't party or go to bars.I've never been to a bar. I don't want to start. That holds no appeal for me. I'm a nerd. I like books and quiet, and being alone outdoors. I do not want to join a singles scene. I simply want the freedom to choose who I have sex with. Men are easy enough to find, even in my quiet life. I dont need to start dating or partying to pick up a guy.
> 
> I think I'm being very straightforward with what I want here. Sex with who I want, no strings attached. A friend with benefits but no commitment. An extra lover. I dont want a relationship or a boyfriend. I'm not in need of emotional stuff or any of that nonsense.
> 
> I'm both thankful and grateful for my husband and children. That doesn't stop me from needing more than my lot in life.


That's all fine, but you are married to a man that doesn't want you to have sex with other men, that is the end of story. Divorce or live with it.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

BTW, about 15% of people have only had 1 sexual partner so it isn't abnormal.


----------



## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> All of the above is true. Bad sex at home, fomo, and I want to rectify my past. I dont want to feel this dreadful embarrassment for having only ever been with one person. I want to learn what I missed out on. But that's al for me, my sense of self and well being. I don't want my needs being fulfilled to change my life or my kids lives.
> Someone called me a cake eater. Hell yes, I want a cake and to eat it too. What's the point otherwise. I want the best of both worlds and I'm not ashamed to say so.


Why do you feel embarrassed that you didn't sleep around when you were younger? Thats crazy.
The thing is you hate marriage yet clearly not enough to get out of it.You also want to live the single life while completely disrespecting your husband. Please at least love and respect him enough to end this farce of a marriage before you go sleeping around. 

Maybe the issue is that you are a very selfish and self centered person. As you say you want it all. Life just isn't like that.


----------



## Diana7

BigDaddyNY said:


> BTW, about 15% of people have only had 1 sexual partner so it isn't abnormal.


I know many couples who met and married young. The happiest longest marriages I know of. Mostly over 45 years long now. I think it's great. 🥰


----------



## BigDaddyNY

oldshirt said:


> And I strongly disagree that there are no do overs in life.
> 
> Each new day brings the opportunity of a better life.
> 
> There will be costs and ramifications is all choices including the choice of remaining in status quo.
> 
> The art of being human is to do your own calculus and decide what set of costs and benefits will be best for you.


My comment about no do overs comes from her seemly dreaming about a life without kids and husband that she missed out on. That you can't undo.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Thatredhead said:


> I think I'm being very straightforward with what I want here. Sex with who I want, no strings attached. A friend with benefits but no commitment. An extra lover. I dont want a relationship or a boyfriend. I'm not in need of emotional stuff or any of that nonsense.


You also said you don't want to be the town bicycle. How do you suppose you will find these FWB and not sleep around? Or does one of the guys you already have in mind fit the bill? 

Sure there are guys out there that would love NSA sex, but they aren't going to stick around long term and aren't going to be exclusive to you. So you will regularly need to find new partners.

The bottom line is without your husband's agreement you will never even get to the hard part of hammering out the long list of rules needed to make this kind of arrangement work. I think you aren't interested in that though. You don't want any rules. You want the fun without the responsibility. I think your best course of action is divorce and on days you don't have the kids you can screw anyone you want.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> I was coerced into marriage by my extremely religious family. I faced shunning if I didn't immediately marry my unbelieving boyfriend. So I married him, rather than stay in that toxic home.
> 
> I don't know how many partners is normal, but definitely more than 1!
> 
> I don’t want the single life. I don't party or go to bars.I've never been to a bar. I don't want to start. That holds no appeal for me. I'm a nerd. I like books and quiet, and being alone outdoors. I do not want to join a singles scene. I simply want the freedom to choose who I have sex with. Men are easy enough to find, even in my quiet life. I dont need to start dating or partying to pick up a guy.
> 
> I think I'm being very straightforward with what I want here. Sex with who I want, no strings attached. A friend with benefits but no commitment. An extra lover. I dont want a relationship or a boyfriend. I'm not in need of emotional stuff or any of that nonsense.
> 
> I'm both thankful and grateful for my husband and children. That doesn't stop me from needing more than my lot in life.


Ok so I understand where you are coming from. 

what’s your plan from here going forward?

And more importantly, What can we offer you here?


----------



## Married but Happy

So, do you have a plan, OP? You've received a lot of feedback and advice - has it helped? What if your husband addresses the issues you have with him? What if he won't?


----------



## Thatredhead

BigDaddyNY said:


> You also said you don't want to be the town bicycle. How do you suppose you will find these FWB and not sleep around? Or does one of the guys you already have in mind fit the bill?
> 
> Sure there are guys out there that would love NSA sex, but they aren't going to stick around long term and aren't going to be exclusive to you. So you will regularly need to find new partners.
> 
> The bottom line is without your husband's agreement you will never even get to the hard part of hammering out the long list of rules needed to make this kind of arrangement work. I think you aren't interested in that though. You don't want any rules. You want the fun without the responsibility. I think your best course of action is divorce and on days you don't have the kids you can screw anyone you want.


I have several candidates in mind, so it's not like starting from scratch. I don’t expect or want exclusivity, that defeats the point.

You're correct when you say I don't want any rules. I cringe at the thought of my husband having the right to veto my choices...it literally makes me feel physically ill that he can have that control over my life and body. That's probably a very real reason I struggle with attraction to him....he is an authority figure and I despise male authority.

It seems ethical non monogamy is a non starter for me. Cheating sounds like an awful amount of work and I'd honestly rather not, but I've been reading about people in marriages like mine. Stuck for one reason or another and finding relief through some action on the side. A side piece. The idea is distasteful, but cheaper than divorce. Idk what to do. At his weight I'll be a widow sooner than later as well, so there's always that.


----------



## Thatredhead

oldshirt said:


> Ok so I understand where you are coming from.
> 
> what’s your plan from here going forward?
> 
> And more importantly, What can we offer you here?


I still don't have a plan, I'm too angry and rebellious feeling right now to come up with a rational course of action. 

It's been immensely helpful to have this place to vent and get different points of view.

I do know that I'm not done talking to my husband about this. He doesn't just get to say no and that be the end of it. There has to be some compromise. I won't be treated like a possession or something that he has control over. 

I don’t think there's much more that you guys can offer me here. (I get the feeling this may be a religious affiliated board or church run and I didn't know that before posting). I know what I want and I am still determined to get it, I just need to continue to work out how.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Thatredhead said:


> I still don't have a plan, I'm too angry and rebellious feeling right now to come up with a rational course of action.
> 
> It's been immensely helpful to have this place to vent and get different points of view.
> 
> I do know that I'm not done talking to my husband about this. He doesn't just get to say no and that be the end of it. There has to be some compromise. I won't be treated like a possession or something that he has control over.
> 
> I don’t think there's much more that you guys can offer me here. (I get the feeling this may be a religious affiliated board or church run and I didn't know that before posting). I know what I want and I am still determined to get it, I just need to continue to work out how.


Lol, religious affiliated. Trust me, it's not.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> I still don't have a plan, I'm too angry and rebellious feeling right now to come up with a rational course of action.
> 
> It's been immensely helpful to have this place to vent and get different points of view.
> 
> I do know that I'm not done talking to my husband about this. He doesn't just get to say no and that be the end of it. There has to be some compromise. I won't be treated like a possession or something that he has control over.
> 
> I don’t think there's much more that you guys can offer me here. (I get the feeling this may be a religious affiliated board or church run and I didn't know that before posting). I know what I want and I am still determined to get it, I just need to continue to work out how.


Your husband does not get to dictate what you do or do not do with your genitalia and your sexuality. 

You have free agency and freedom of choice over your body and your own sexuality. 

Your husband only has control over himself and what he does sexually.

Which means he may suck it up and accept you screwing others.

Or he may let you do your thing and he’ll go out and find chicks if his own.

He may divorce you. 

He may remain married to you but never speak to you again. 

Those are his options. 

So you have choice and agency over your life and your sexuality. 

And his has choice and agency over what he chooses to do about your choices.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

BTW, if you have to keep asking him and keep trying to reframe it to get him to agree you are basically coercing him and that isn't right or fair to him.


----------



## bobert

Thatredhead said:


> I have several candidates in mind, so it's not like starting from scratch. I don’t expect or want exclusivity, that defeats the point.


Sure, but how do you know they will be good in bed and not a dud? You say you want a man to fill in the sexual gaps that your husband cannot, so how do you know these "candidates" will fit the bill?

The answer: You won't, until you sleep with them.

If they are no better than you husband what are you going to do?

The answer: Sleep around until you find Mr. Right.

How do you even know these "candidates" will have any interest in sleeping with you/a married woman? If you know, chances are you have already crossed the line.



> You're correct when you say I don't want any rules. I cringe at the thought of my husband having the right to veto my choices...it literally makes me feel physically ill that he can have that control over my life and body. That's probably a very real reason I struggle with attraction to him....he is an authority figure and I despise male authority.


What you need first is therapy to deal with these issues, THEN see if your wants are still the same.

PS, I'm not religious in the slightest.


----------



## bobert

Thatredhead said:


> I do know that I'm not done talking to my husband about this. He doesn't just get to say no and that be the end of it. There has to be some compromise. I won't be treated like a possession or something that he has control over.


He absolutely does get to say no. Are you kidding? This is HIS life as well. HIS marriage. HIS health. HIS family. 

Plus, he already did kind of compromise. He offered you a woman and seeing as you are bisexual, that's a reasonable compromise. 

You say you don't want to be "controlled". Really, he does not have any control over you. If you want to go out and **** the whole town, you can. If he wants to divorce you for it, he can. You are both in control of your own lives.


----------



## ConanHub

TexasMom1216 said:


> IMHO, people who claim people aren’t “naturally monogamous” are just making excuses for their infidelity. If they were so confident in what they were doing they’d say “this is my choice.” But instead it’s “you faithful people are going against nature.” Seems a little thin to me, but whatever. Adults can do what they want and it’s not my business unless children are involved, then it’s all of society’s business. (Involved in the sex, as in everyone isn’t a consenting adult. I mean, I have a low opinion of people with a revolving bedroom door when their kids are watching the come and go, but that falls into the “none of my business” category.)


Urges are natural and everyone has them to varying degrees and from time to time.

Acting on them or not is what separates men from dogs and pigs.

It's a terrible argument to claim any poor decisions are just "natural".


----------



## ConanHub

Woohoo! Just saw some of your responses @Thatredhead .

Just send your husband here and I will try my level best to get him to divorce you and work on himself and get a better life.

You are not ok.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> I still don't have a plan, I'm too angry and rebellious feeling right now to come up with a rational course of action.


This is why I think you should get into therapy. 

Therapy can help you unpack your baggage and and address your anger and resentment and past traumas so that you aren’t making life-impacting decisions under anger and impulsiveness.


----------



## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> I have several candidates in mind, so it's not like starting from scratch. I don’t expect or want exclusivity, that defeats the point.
> 
> You're correct when you say I don't want any rules. I cringe at the thought of my husband having the right to veto my choices...it literally makes me feel physically ill that he can have that control over my life and body. That's probably a very real reason I struggle with attraction to him....he is an authority figure and I despise male authority.
> 
> It seems ethical non monogamy is a non starter for me. Cheating sounds like an awful amount of work and I'd honestly rather not, but I've been reading about people in marriages like mine. Stuck for one reason or another and finding relief through some action on the side. A side piece. The idea is distasteful, but cheaper than divorce. Idk what to do. At his weight I'll be a widow sooner than later as well, so there's always that.


Of course he isn't a male authority figure. He is your husband and as your husband he shouldnt have to put up with a cheating wife.


----------



## oldshirt

BigDaddyNY said:


> My comment about no do overs comes from her seemly dreaming about a life without kids and husband that she missed out on. That you can't undo.


I’m not getting that she wants to be single and childless at all.... otherwise she simply would have gone all Thelma and Louise a long time ago. 

She wants to have her cake and eat it too. She came right out and said that. 

She doesn’t want to be single. She wants to be married and maintain a home and family life but screw some guy(s) that aren’t fat, that she is actually attracted to and who can actually please her. 

This is an actual thing that many many women (and probably men too) feel. This is what Rollo Tomassi and Jordan Peterson et al call Duelistic Mating Strategy.... it is an actual thing.

She wants the beta bucks and the domestic support and friendship from her H, but also wants the alpha phucks from a side lover that she is actually attracted to and who can actually satisfy her sexually. 

Her dilemma in and of itself is quite common. 

What’s shocking people here is how openly and blatantly she is describing it here. 

Julia and Cindy and Samantha etc that live down the street from all of us feel the same way,, they just don’t say it out loud.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Diana7 said:


> Of course he isn't a male authority figure. He is your husband and as your husband he shouldnt have to put up with a cheating wife.


Biblically, he is a male authority figure with total and unaccountable control over her, with ownership of her body. I don’t agree with the direction she’s taking, I think it will be destructive for her, but it’s completely understandable why she feels the way she does. I wish she’d get some IC and work out her rage in a more constructive way, but to just deny what her life has been is also destructive. Honestly before she does anything I wish she’d get some non-religious counseling to help her unpack and deal with the abuse she’s suffered from her religious upbringing. I think a string of meaningless sexual encounters are going to leave her feeling worse about herself and about sex.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

oldshirt said:


> I’m not getting that she wants to be single and childless at all.... otherwise she simply would have gone all Thelma and Louise a long time ago.
> 
> She wants to have her cake and eat it too. She came right out and said that.
> 
> She doesn’t want to be single. She wants to be married and maintain a home and family life but screw some guy(s) that aren’t fat, that she is actually attracted to and who can actually please her.
> 
> This is an actual thing that many many women (and probably men too) feel. This is what Rollo Tomassi and Jordan Peterson et al call Duelistic Mating Strategy.... it is an actual thing.
> 
> She wants the beta bucks and the domestic support and friendship from her H, but also wants the alpha phucks from a side lover that she is actually attracted to and who can actually satisfy her sexually.
> 
> Her dilemma in and of itself is quite common.
> 
> What’s shocking people here is how openly and blatantly she is describing it here.
> 
> Julia and Cindy and Samantha etc that live down the street from all of us feel the same way,, they just don’t say it out loud.


I get it. She wants to be single sexually, married for family. Best of both worlds in her view.


----------



## ConanHub

P.S. @Thatredhead , I'm in no way saying you should be putting up with a man that hasn't even tried to maintain your attraction.

He sounds frankly awful physically.

You are not healthy however and your ideas are very unhealthy.

You do not have a good grip on the repercussions and ramifications of your ideas at all.

The only advice you will get from this barbarian is to get mental and emotional help in the form of therapy and counseling and that won't be to try and make you more comfortable with your marriage.

The healthier you get, the less satisfied with your marriage you probably will become.

You need to get healthy for yourself.


----------



## Thatredhead

oldshirt said:


> I’m not getting that she wants to be single and childless at all.... otherwise she simply would have gone all Thelma and Louise a long time ago.
> 
> She wants to have her cake and eat it too. She came right out and said that.
> 
> She doesn’t want to be single. She wants to be married and maintain a home and family life but screw some guy(s) that aren’t fat, that she is actually attracted to and who can actually please her.
> 
> This is an actual thing that many many women (and probably men too) feel. This is what Rollo Tomassi and Jordan Peterson et al call Duelistic Mating Strategy.... it is an actual thing.
> 
> She wants the beta bucks and the domestic support and friendship from her H, but also wants the alpha phucks from a side lover that she is actually attracted to and who can actually satisfy her sexually.
> 
> Her dilemma in and of itself is quite common.
> 
> What’s shocking people here is how openly and blatantly she is describing it here.
> 
> Julia and Cindy and Samantha etc that live down the street from all of us feel the same way,, they just don’t say it out loud.


Very succinctly put and very close to how I'm feeling. Not quite but close. 

I'm thinking Lip and Helene from Shameless, where Helene's husband was aware of the affair. Thats the situation I want, in an ideal world.


----------



## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> Biblically, he is a male authority figure with total and unaccountable control over her, with ownership of her body. I don’t agree with the direction she’s taking, I think it will be destructive for her, but it’s completely understandable why she feels the way she does. I wish she’d get some IC and work out her rage in a more constructive way, but to just deny what her life has been is also destructive. Honestly before she does anything I wish she’d get some non-religious counseling to help her unpack and deal with the abuse she’s suffered from her religious upbringing. I think a string of meaningless sexual encounters are going to leave her feeling worse about herself and about sex.


As much as we butt heads on countless topics here, I agree. 

Her discontent is understandable. 

Her want of sexual autonomy, agency and satisfaction I believe is universal.

But decisions made out of spite, anger and rebellion rarely have positive outcomes.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> Very succinctly put and very close to how I'm feeling. Not quite but close.
> 
> I'm thinking Lip and Helene from Shameless, where Helene's husband was aware of the affair. Thats the situation I want, in an ideal world.


Ok, but that’s a TV show and not reality. 

More importantly, a consenting husband that goes along with it without repercussion is not YOUR reality.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> I’m not getting that she wants to be single and childless at all.... otherwise she simply would have gone all Thelma and Louise a long time ago.
> 
> She wants to have her cake and eat it too. She came right out and said that.
> 
> She doesn’t want to be single. She wants to be married and maintain a home and family life but screw some guy(s) that aren’t fat, that she is actually attracted to and who can actually please her.
> 
> This is an actual thing that many many women (and probably men too) feel. This is what Rollo Tomassi and Jordan Peterson et al call Duelistic Mating Strategy.... it is an actual thing.
> 
> She wants the beta bucks and the domestic support and friendship from her H, but also wants the alpha phucks from a side lover that she is actually attracted to and who can actually satisfy her sexually.
> 
> Her dilemma in and of itself is quite common.
> 
> What’s shocking people here is how openly and blatantly she is describing it here.
> 
> Julia and Cindy and Samantha etc that live down the street from all of us feel the same way,, they just don’t say it out loud.


I can't agree with you. Any women who want to have sex with others usually know and understand that it's not how marriage works. 
Can't say it's common for someone to be so very selfish. What makes it worse is that she has children yet barely mentions them or the effect it will have on them when their parents marriage collapses due to the selfishness of their mother.


----------



## Numb26

ConanHub said:


> Woohoo! Just saw some of your responses @Thatredhead .
> 
> Just send your husband here and I will try my level best to get him to divorce you and work on himself and get a better life.
> 
> You are not ok.


If I was her husband I would simply say, "You are a single woman now, you can do whatever you want"


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> I can't agree with you. Any women who want to have sex with others usually know and understand that it's not how marriage works.
> Can't say it's common for someone to be so very selfish. What makes it worse is that she has children yet barely mentions them or the effect it will have on them when their parents marriage collapses due to the selfishness of their mother.


She said it out of her own keyboard, she wants to maintain the marriage, family and home life but have sex with other people. 

She came out and said she does want to eat cake. Her words.


----------



## oldshirt

Numb26 said:


> If I was her husband I would simply say, "You are a single woman now, you can do whatever you want"


He obviously has a lot of issues and disorders himself.


----------



## ConanHub

oldshirt said:


> She said it out of her own keyboard, she wants to maintain the marriage, family and home life but have sex with other people.
> 
> She came out and said she does want to eat cake. Her words.


Hahahaha! You definitely can't fault her for dishonesty now!

That aspect is refreshing.


----------



## ConanHub

Thatredhead said:


> Very succinctly put and very close to how I'm feeling. Not quite but close.
> 
> I'm thinking Lip and Helene from Shameless, where Helene's husband was aware of the affair. Thats the situation I want, in an ideal world.


People who live lives like in "Shameless" have very real repercussions that aren't so funny in real life.


----------



## Tuscany

Diana7 said:


> However if you are determined to be *unfaithful i*t's hard to see how the marriage will survive.


People in open marriages are not unfaithful.


----------



## oldshirt

ConanHub said:


> Hahahaha! You definitely can't fault her for dishonesty now!
> 
> That aspect is refreshing.


We all know where she stands and what she wants. 

It just makes you wonder what she has been telling him and what his understanding of where her head and her heart are at. 
Does he have a clue of what he is up against?

She is still having sex with him despite her revulsion of him and she has even agreed in concept to do a FMF 3-way so he probably thinks he has it made.


----------



## Tuscany

Diana7 said:


> Agreed, or else focus her energies on her husband and working on their marriage.


Her husband is not interested in improving their sex life. She is unfulfilled sexually. As for many of us, evidently a healthy sex life is a requirement for a healthy marriage.

Why do you keep harping on her responsibilities to fix the marriage? Where's his responsibility?


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> She said it out of her own keyboard, she wants to maintain the marriage, family and home life but have sex with other people.
> 
> She came out and said she does want to eat cake. Her words.


Yes she did but I think most women have far more self awareness than she does.


----------



## Diana7

Tuscany said:


> Her husband is not interested in improving their sex life. She is unfulfilled sexually. As for many of us, evidently a healthy sex life is a requirement for a healthy marriage.
> 
> Why do you keep harping on her responsibilities to fix the marriage? Where's his responsibility?


Its something that they should both work on together. Focusing on other men isn't going to help.


----------



## CrAzYdOgLaDy

I can see OP husband going off/falling in love with another woman if he agrees to open the marriage.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Tuscany said:


> Her husband is not interested in improving their sex life. She is unfulfilled sexually. As for many of us, evidently a healthy sex life is a requirement for a healthy marriage.
> 
> Why do you keep harping on her responsibilities to fix the marriage? Where's his responsibility?


He does own responsibility for his end of it. However, opening the marriage on her part is not they way. She is free to divorce and do whatever she wants.


----------



## oldshirt

Diana7 said:


> Yes she did but I think most women have far more self awareness than she does.


She sounds pretty dang self aware to me. 

She sounds to me like she knows exactly what her issues are and exactly what she wants. 

Lack of self awareness isn’t the problem. 

Getting him and the rest of the world to conform to her wishes will be the challenge.


----------



## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> He does own responsibility for his end of it. However, opening the marriage on her part is not they way. She is free to divorce and do whatever she wants.


This is what I can’t resolve in my mind. I honestly understand how she feels. What I don’t get is why she wants to stay married and have sex with other men also and thinks that’s in any way a productive or tenable solution. If you want to have sex with all different people, don’t be married. Why be married if you are still looking for the right person?


----------



## As'laDain

Thatredhead said:


> I still don't have a plan, I'm too angry and rebellious feeling right now to come up with a rational course of action.
> 
> It's been immensely helpful to have this place to vent and get different points of view.
> 
> I do know that I'm not done talking to my husband about this. He doesn't just get to say no and that be the end of it. There has to be some compromise. I won't be treated like a possession or something that he has control over.
> 
> I don’t think there's much more that you guys can offer me here. (I get the feeling this may be a religious affiliated board or church run and I didn't know that before posting). I know what I want and I am still determined to get it, I just need to continue to work out how.


It's not a religiously run board, but there are religious people here. Regardless, even those of us who DO practice ethical non-monogamy have all said that it isn't likely to work on your case. You are married to someone who is monogamous, and isn't interested in non-monogamy.

The solution is simple... Deal with the inconvenience of divorce. THAT would be ethical. As it is, you are railing against being controlled, but your husband didn't exactly ask for this. You can't _make_ him just get over it. So if you pursue non-monogamy, be prepared for divorce. Getting mad at him for wanting to be monogamous won't solve anything.


----------



## Thatredhead

TexasMom1216 said:


> This is what I can’t resolve in my mind. I honestly understand how she feels. What I don’t get is why she wants to stay married and have sex with other men also and thinks that’s in any way a productive or tenable solution. If you want to have sex with all different people, don’t be married. Why be married if you are still looking for the right person?


He is the right person, besides this issue. I'm not attracted to him but I love him. We rely on each other for everything. He's a very good man. I don't want to divorce him, and he doesn't want to divorce me..just so long as I conform to the rules he makes, which is where I'm bucking. 

This is the dilemma.


----------



## bobert

Thatredhead said:


> He is the right person, besides this issue. I'm not attracted to him but I love him. We rely on each other for everything. He's a very good man. I don't want to divorce him, and he doesn't want to divorce me..just so long as I conform to the rules he makes, which is where I'm bucking.
> 
> This is the dilemma.


You're not attracted to him, you're not in love with him, you regret marrying him, and you want to screw other men. He is not "the right person". 

He is just someone you can use and "rely on", rather than be a big girl and stand on your own two feet.


----------



## ConanHub

Thatredhead said:


> He is the right person, besides this issue. I'm not attracted to him but I love him. We rely on each other for everything. He's a very good man. I don't want to divorce him, and he doesn't want to divorce me..just so long as I conform to the rules he makes, which is where I'm bucking.
> 
> This is the dilemma.


You try sometimes.....


----------



## TexasMom1216

Thatredhead said:


> He is the right person, besides this issue. I'm not attracted to him but I love him. We rely on each other for everything. He's a very good man. I don't want to divorce him, and he doesn't want to divorce me..just so long as I conform to the rules he makes, which is where I'm bucking.
> 
> This is the dilemma.


You mean the issue that you want him to support you and be your plan B while you sleep around? All perfect except he won’t let you use and humiliate him? And you’re claiming he’s forcing you to conform to “his” rules? The rules that are the rules for all marriages that he didn’t make and that you agreed to?


----------



## Diceplayer

BigDaddyNY said:


> BTW, about 15% of people have only had 1 sexual partner so it isn't abnormal.


What is the source of your stat?


----------



## sokillme

Thatredhead said:


> He is the right person, besides this issue. I'm not attracted to him but I love him. We rely on each other for everything. He's a very good man. I don't want to divorce him, and he doesn't want to divorce me..just so long as I conform to the rules he makes, which is where I'm bucking.
> 
> This is the dilemma.


So what you describe here is a marriage of material convenience, not a romantic or sexual one. He seems to be cool with this, but you are not. A

You are going to have to decide if you are willing to give up the convenience for a romantic or sexual one. There is the possibility that you could work to improve your sexual one but again he has to be willing, and you do too.

The thing is, adding sex partners isn't going to fix this long term.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

Thatredhead said:


> He is the right person, besides this issue. I'm not attracted to him but I love him. We rely on each other for everything. He's a very good man. I don't want to divorce him, and he doesn't want to divorce me..just so long as I conform to the rules he makes, which is where I'm bucking.
> 
> This is the dilemma.


He might be the "right" person for somebody but, you're definitely the "wrong" person for him. This new adventure you long for won't last. Eventually, your reputation will start to precede you and the only people who'd want to **** you will be the ones nobody else wants to ****. Ask anyone who's grown old alone if they enjoyed it. You won't get many yeses.


----------



## jlg07

Thatredhead said:


> Its the lack of experience, lack of skill, lack of sophistication.


NONE of that should be embarrassing. Those are opportunities for you and your H to improve and learn TOGETHER.



> It's the clinging to old outdated patriarchal morals and values. What's worse is that since my youth was essentially stolen from me, I had no say in the matter. I feel manipulated and forced into being this sexually inadequate.


It seems like you want to take this frustration you have against your upbringing out on your H. Not fair to him -- HE didn't raise you in that culture.



> Like if I'd had my own way, I would have had a normal sex life with a normal amount of partners and would have had that to look back on with some pride and satisfaction. I would have had that period in my life where I was in control of my own life and my own body belonged to me. I never had that and the lack of it is an open festering wound in my soul.


There are MANY people who have a lot of regrets over sexual escapades they've had in the past. The grass isn't always greener here -- your "pride and satisfaction" are illusory. Banging lots of people is not the panacea you think it is. At the same time, I understand why you think like this specifically because you HAVEN'T done any of that.



> I went from being someone's daughter to being someone's wife. Never had a chance to just be me or choose my own path without coercion.


Again, not your H's fault.



> If I'd started having sex in my teens like normal people do, I almost certainly wouldn't be married now. I'd have had the knowledge base to make an informed decision.
> 
> Purity culture is abuse.


So, if you had been able to have sex with others in your teens, you say you wouldn't be married.
Yet you are. Your H wants to have a wife who stays monogamous with him. It's expected in a marriage, and that's the type of relationship he wants.
Since you WOULDN'T have been married, then stop being married and you can pursue sex with anyone you want.
You can do this, still maintain a co-parenting situation with your H, and then you can both live better lives -- you having the freedom you want, and he has the chance of finding someone who will provide the type of wife he needs.

You DO need to consider what all of your various options will do with all of your relaltionships -- H, kids, other family, friends, etc.. Just think about it and make your choice with your eyes wide open.


----------



## Thatredhead

Tested_by_stress said:


> This new adventure you long for won't last. Eventually, your reputation will start to precede you and the only people who'd want to *** you will be the ones nobody else wants to ***. Ask anyone who's grown old alone if they enjoyed it. You won't get many yeses.


What generation are you from? My reputation lol. Men have NO problem hitting on a married woman. Single men, married men, young men, old men....they are all the same. I had 2 slide into my DMs on FB tonight cause I changed my profile pic. Finding a third party would be the easiest part of this whole thing. 

I've no fear of growing old alone. Spending my golden years alone is not a bad prospect.


----------



## Diana7

I


oldshirt said:


> She sounds pretty dang self aware to me.
> 
> She sounds to me like she knows exactly what her issues are and exactly what she wants.
> 
> Lack of self awareness isn’t the problem.
> 
> Getting him and the rest of the world to conform to her wishes will be the challenge.


 I meant aware of the realities of life, marriage, being a parent etc. It's all about her and not those in her family.


----------



## maquiscat

Thatredhead said:


> You're correct when you say I don't want any rules. I cringe at the thought of my husband having the right to veto my choices...it literally makes me feel physically ill that he can have that control over my life and body. That's probably a very real reason I struggle with attraction to him....he is an authority figure and I despise male authority.


Any veto power that is given in such a relationship should be about a partner being able to alert to red flags that the other is not seeing. But for it to work, the trust must be there that a partner will not just use it willy nilly to eliminate all potential outside partners. Don't dismiss the veto dynamic out of hand. It is something that you should be able to wield as well for him going outside the marriage, which you said you offered for him to do. For example, if he starts looking at getting up with Crissy, and you find out that Crissy has HIV, then you very much should put out a veto on her, if for no other reason than to protect yourself, especially if you are looking at still having sex with him. And if you are planning on having sex with him, then he deserves that same level of being able to protect himself. All of my spouses have veto power over my external partners, and I on them. But, as I noted, we trust each other to not use if simply because of a personality conflict. I know I will only get vetoed if they discover something that is going to be a real problem, to me or to them.



> It seems ethical non monogamy is a non starter for me. Cheating sounds like an awful amount of work and I'd honestly rather not, but I've been reading about people in marriages like mine. Stuck for one reason or another and finding relief through some action on the side. A side piece. The idea is distasteful, but cheaper than divorce. Idk what to do. At his weight I'll be a widow sooner than later as well, so there's always that.


I think there is either a mistype here or a misconception on your part. Ethical Non-Monogamy (ENM) is not cheating, because the ethical thing is making sure all people involved know you are with multiple people, either sexually or emotionally, or both. Now doesn't mean that all your partners know all the details or even who the other partners are. Only that you do have multiple partners. If your plan is to have multiple men while being still married to your husband, either he knows you are doing it (ENM) or you are cheating. There is not two ways about it.

Also I did point out that divorce is not really all that expensive, unless you know he is going to fight for every asset. You will have to check with your providence of course, as laws and costs vary, but most places are at a point where non contested divorce is simple and relatively inexpensive. A single lawyer can usually and fairly handle both people.


----------



## maquiscat

Thatredhead said:


> I don’t think there's much more that you guys can offer me here. (I get the feeling this may be a religious affiliated board or church run and I didn't know that before posting). I know what I want and I am still determined to get it, I just need to continue to work out how.


Given all the arguments we have between people over religious aspects, hardly. Not to mention the half dozen or so ENM people that end up upsetting the more religious folks we do have here. This board has been fairly good about allowing a natural balance base on who has joined. IOW, there are a lot of religious people here, some so uber I had to put them on ignore, and others who know enough to understand that others don't follow their path, but it is not run by any religious tenants.


----------



## maquiscat

@Thatredhead 


bobert said:


> How do you even know these "candidates" will have any interest in sleeping with you/a married woman?


This is a very key point. There are many men out there who do not want to sleep with a married woman. Others want to know that they are married, but otherwise will sleep with them. Still others, like me, while not having an issue having sex with a married woman, want to know that the spouse (husband or wife, or multiple thereof) is aware and agreeing, or otherwise will not have sex. If you do not reveal your status to these other men, you are robbing them of their agency and decision making for themselves. Basically it would be a hypercritical stance, given that you want to be able to choose the types of relationships, sexual or emotional, you want.


----------



## maquiscat

TexasMom1216 said:


> This is what I can’t resolve in my mind. I honestly understand how she feels. What I don’t get is why she wants to stay married and have sex with other men also and thinks that’s in any way a productive or tenable solution. If you want to have sex with all different people, don’t be married. Why be married if you are still looking for the right person?


I believe that the children was cited at one point, but also she feels that divorce is an expensive proposition and that she can't afford to make it happen. She also stated that outside of the sexual issue, she feels the marriage is great. Now while there are indeed marriage where the spouses don't want sex with each other, but embrace all other aspects of a marriage, Like others, I don't think that is or can be the case here.


----------



## maquiscat

TexasMom1216 said:


> The rules that are the rules for all marriages that he didn’t make and that you agreed to?


I think that us ENM people have shown that there is no such rules for all marriages. The rules for each marriage is what all the people in the marriage decide. Those outside the marriage have no say.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Diceplayer said:


> What is the source of your stat?


There are a number of sources with 14-16% as the single lifetime sexual partner percentage and they usually cite a source study. Here is one.



How many people have Americans had sex with? | Relationships in America


.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

maquiscat said:


> I think there is either a mistype here or a misconception on your part. Ethical Non-Monogamy (ENM) is not cheating, because the ethical thing is making sure all people involved know you are with multiple people, either sexually or emotionally, or both. Now doesn't mean that all your partners know all the details or even who the other partners are. Only that you do have multiple partners. If your plan is to have multiple men while being still married to your husband, either he knows you are doing it (ENM) or you are cheating. There is not two ways about it.


ENM isn't for her because she doesn't want ANY rules imposed on her. She wants to literally do anything she wants with no regard for what her husband thinks. She wants to be sexually single while comfortably married with children. She is an extremely selfish person from what I can see.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Diceplayer said:


> What is the source of your stat?


Another one with CDC data, putting the number a little higher. 





Average Number Of Sexual Partners For Women & Men: What's Normal? | mindbodygreen


Here's how many partners men and women have slept with, plus how many sexual partners is too many and what to do when your partner's number feels too high.




www.mindbodygreen.com


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

Maybe once you have a few FFM experiences, you and the hubster can have the discussion about an FMM.

from there, you just keep taking steps til you have an open marriage.


Real question to ask I suppose is,
Do you still want to be with your husband?
You say you love your husband but…
Do you LIKE him?

It seems every discussion you guys have about progressing into the lifestyle you have, the more upset at him you become.


----------



## Thatredhead

Keepin-my-head-up said:


> Real question to ask I suppose
> Do you still want to be with your husband?
> You say you love your husband but…
> Do you LIKE him?
> 
> It seems every discussion you guys have about progressing into the lifestyle you have, the more upset at him you become.


I love my husband. It would be easier if I didn't, then I wouldn't care about his feelings or opinions and I'd just do whatever I wanted. 

I'm finding it harder to LIKE him after all these discussions where he just doesn't get how unhappy I am. The ball is in his court, and he knows it. I am feeling very resentful towards him as I really expected better of him.


----------



## maquiscat

BigDaddyNY said:


> ENM isn't for her because she doesn't want ANY rules imposed on her. She wants to literally do anything she wants with no regard for what her husband thinks. She wants to be sexually single while comfortably married with children. She is an extremely selfish person from what I can see.


Be that as it may, the correct information has been provided to her, whether she makes use of it or not. Maybe she gets therapy and the info then becomes applicable. Or at the least, someone else reading this thread gets a better understanding. But I think you know me enough by now, that if I see the misinformation, Imma gonna correct it!


----------



## TexasMom1216

Thatredhead said:


> I love my husband. It would be easier if I didn't, then I wouldn't care about his feelings or opinions and I'd just do whatever I wanted.
> 
> I'm finding it harder to LIKE him after all these discussions where he just doesn't get how unhappy I am. The ball is in his court, and he knows it. I am feeling very resentful towards him as I really expected better of him.


Not agreeing to whatever you say doesn’t mean he doesn’t understand. Do you get how unhappy an open marriage would make him?


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

If he somehow agreed, would the itch to be free go away tho?


----------



## Tested_by_stress

Thatredhead said:


> I love my husband. It would be easier if I didn't, then I wouldn't care about his feelings or opinions and I'd just do whatever I wanted.
> 
> I'm finding it harder to LIKE him after all these discussions where he just doesn't get how unhappy I am. The ball is in his court, and he knows it. I am feeling very resentful towards him as I really expected better of him.


You would be 100% better off divorced. Nothing in your views of sex aligns. You will likely just open the marriage on your end regardless. The resulting fallout will be much worse than the fallout over divorcing beforehand.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> I love my husband. It would be easier if I didn't, then I wouldn't care about his feelings or opinions and I'd just do whatever I wanted.
> 
> I'm finding it harder to LIKE him after all these discussions where he just doesn't get how unhappy I am. The ball is in his court, and he knows it. I am feeling very resentful towards him as I really expected better of him.


The $127,526,835,824 question is have you actually told in explicit and unambiguous language how unhappy you are?

Have you actually spoken the words, “I am very unhappy and dissatisfied in our sexlife and I am not sexually attracted to you and do not enjoy sex with you and if things do not change drastically, our relationship is going to implode.” 

Have you or have you not spoken those words to him? 

If you have not spoken those words directly to him, then he thinks all is well because you are still having sex with him and you have said you’ll do a FMF. 

You are climbing the walls in utter frustration and dissatisfaction to where you want get all your sexual needs met by others, And he thinks he is living the life of a Swedish Porn star. 

Why do you think that is and where do you think that disconnect comes from?????


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

deleted
Double post


----------



## Tested_by_stress

Thatredhead said:


> What generation are you from? My reputation lol. Men have NO problem hitting on a married woman. Single men, married men, young men, old men....they are all the same. I had 2 slide into my DMs on FB tonight cause I changed my profile pic. Finding a third party would be the easiest part of this whole thing.
> 
> I've no fear of growing old alone. Spending my golden years alone is not a bad prospect.


What generation? Based on your initial postings! I would put myself within 10 years of you. Maybe 12. And yes, your reputation will suffer. That's the thing about men. They brag about their conquests and those conquests are never presented or received in a favorable light. This is wrong in my opinion because neither person in the transaction is any better or worse than the other.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Thatredhead said:


> What generation are you from? My reputation lol. Men have NO problem hitting on a married woman. Single men, married men, young men, old men....they are all the same. I had 2 slide into my DMs on FB tonight cause I changed my profile pic. Finding a third party would be the easiest part of this whole thing.
> 
> I've no fear of growing old alone. Spending my golden years alone is not a bad prospect.


They will have no problem having sex with a married woman, but what make you think they will stick around? They will hit it and quit it and move on to the next woman. As others have said, what if they suck in bed too? What if it turns out YOU are really bad in bed? Again, you said you don't want to be the town bicycle, but that is likely what you will become.

If your husband got his act together, lost weight and improved his performance in bed would you be satisfied and not desire to open the marriage?


----------



## Thatredhead

BigDaddyNY said:


> They will have no problem having sex with a married woman, but what make you think they will stick around? They will hit it and quit it and move on to the next woman. As others have said, what if they suck in bed too? What if it turns out YOU are really bad in bed? Again, you said you don't want to be the town bicycle, but that is likely what you will become.
> 
> If your husband got his act together, lost weight and improved his performance in bed would you be satisfied and not desire to open the marriage?


I haven't planned out all the details about the 3rd party....they don't really matter at this point. Like I've said I don't care about the identity or status of the man. Or men. Right now my focus is getting permission to have that part of my life returned to me. All the other stuff can get worked out later. 

No amount of improvements on H's part will remove that longing for what I missed and for wanting my right to choose who shares my body.


----------



## TexasMom1216

You have total control over who shares your body. You just don’t want to deal with the consequences of that choice.


----------



## Thatredhead

oldshirt said:


> The $127,526,835,824 question is have you actually told in explicit and unambiguous language how unhappy you are?
> 
> Have you actually spoken the words, “I am very unhappy and dissatisfied in our sexlife and I am not sexually attracted to you and do not enjoy sex with you and if things do not change drastically, our relationship is going to implode.”
> 
> Have you or have you not spoken those words to him?
> 
> If you have not spoken those words directly to him, then he thinks all is well because you are still having sex with him and you have said you’ll do a FMF.
> 
> You are climbing the walls in utter frustration and dissatisfaction to where you want get all your sexual needs met by others, And he thinks he is living the life of a Swedish Porn star.
> 
> Why do you think that is and where do you think that disconnect comes from?????


I've told him the gist of what you said, except for the implosion part. He knows I'm stuck in the marriage and can't leave so perhaps he has no real impetus to change. And besides, I dont want to force him to change. He's chosen his path. He has full right to do whatever he wants. If he's happy with how he is, it's not my place to say anything about it.


----------



## jlg07

maquiscat said:


> I believe that the children was cited at one point, but also she feels that divorce is an expensive proposition and that she can't afford to make it happen. She also stated that outside of the sexual issue, she feels the marriage is great. Now while there are indeed marriage where the spouses don't want sex with each other, but embrace all other aspects of a marriage, Like others, I don't think that is or can be the case here.


She SAYS the marriage is great -- but she complains that her H "controls" her life, that she was given NO choices and would not have been married if she DID have a choice.
She is rebelling against her marriage and what she views as control over what SHE wants to do with her life.
I don't think that this marriage is "great" to her -- she says that because her H is a nice guy, a good father, and takes care of her monetary needs.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> I've told him the gist of what you said, except for the implosion part. He knows I'm stuck in the marriage and can't leave so perhaps he has no real impetus to change. And besides, I dont want to force him to change. He's chosen his path. He has full right to do whatever he wants. If he's happy with how he is, it's not my place to say anything about it.


It's not about forcing him to change. No one can force anyone to do anything. 

It's about being honest with him about your state so he can understand where you are at with things and be aware of the status of your marriage and relationship. 

Until you have clearly communicated to him to where he clearly understands your status, you have not given him, your relationship or even yourself a fair chance. 

He cannot rightly address that which he is not aware. 

If you clearly, in language he can understand, explain to him your dissatisfaction, then it's on him. He may choose to lose weight, address his PE and go to Sex Camp so he can better please you. 

Or he may say to go ahead and get your lover(s). 

Or he may divorce you and set you free. 

Or he may do absolutely nothing, and then you make your choice but you do so knowing that you have done your due diligence and fair play. 

If you are fully open and honest and he is aware of your state and makes his decision based on reality, then you can each go forward with clear conscience knowing that you did your due diligence and honor.


----------



## Diana7

Op there are a few Christians here, but mostly not. However there are many here who believe that cheating is wrong. Many who value faithfulness and treating their spouse with decency and respect. Many who put their children and their well being before themselves.


----------



## Diana7

jlg07 said:


> She SAYS the marriage is great -- but she complains that her H "controls" her life, that she was given NO choices and would not have been married if she DID have a choice.
> She is rebelling against her marriage and what she views as control over what SHE wants to do with her life.
> I don't think that this marriage is "great" to her -- she says that because her H is a nice guy, a good father, and takes care of her monetary needs.


She hates marriage and complains that her husband is a 'male authority figure' merely because he doesn't want her having sex with another man. 
Madness.


----------



## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> I love my husband. It would be easier if I didn't, then I wouldn't care about his feelings or opinions and I'd just do whatever I wanted.
> 
> I'm finding it harder to LIKE him after all these discussions where he just doesn't get how unhappy I am. The ball is in his court, and he knows it. I am feeling very resentful towards him as I really expected better of him.


Good grief. By 'better' you mean you expected him to agree to you having sex with other men? How is that better?


----------



## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> Not agreeing to whatever you say doesn’t mean he doesn’t understand. Do you get how unhappy an open marriage would make him?


That's irrelevant to her.


----------



## TexasMom1216

I wonder if the OP is waiting for “permission” so that if everything goes badly with her little adventures she can blame her husband for “letting” her ruin their lives and marriage. She went from belonging to her father to belonging to her husband, she’s never faced an adult responsibility in her life. She may lack the courage to make her own decisions and that’s why she won’t divorce: if she goes off on her own and it turns out that an endless string of men doesn’t “fix” her, she’ll have no one to blame but herself and will alone be responsible for cleaning up her mess. Just a thought.


----------



## Thatredhead

Diana7 said:


> Good grief. By 'better' you mean you expected him to agree to you having sex with other men? How is that better?


By expecting better of him, I mean I expected him to be able to put aside any feelings of owning me or having a claim on me for my own well being. I expected a degree of enlightenment and liberalism not unusual for him, as he follows my lead on most important things. It's a serious let down and disappointment that he wants to continue the old patriarchal form of marriage when we both know there's a better way. Well I know there's a better way, he is being uncharacteristically stubborn.


----------



## Thatredhead

Keepin-my-head-up said:


> If he somehow agreed, would the itch to be free go away tho?


If he agreed, I would be free. All I want is my sexual agency back, the freedom to choose who I have sex with. He holds the keys to that. 

My resentment towards him is growing by the day though. I just can't respect a man who is so obtuse and stubborn. 

I skipped Easter with his family. I can't even look at him right now.


----------



## As'laDain

Thatredhead said:


> By expecting better of him, I mean I expected him to be able to put aside any feelings of owning me or having a claim on me for my own well being. I expected a degree of enlightenment and liberalism not unusual for him, as he follows my lead on most important things. It's a serious let down and disappointment that he wants to continue the old patriarchal form of marriage when we both know there's a better way. Well I know there's a better way, he is being uncharacteristically stubborn.


Better way? What you seem to want is not better. You want to completely disregard your husband's feelings while getting his blessing to do whatever you want, even if it hurts him. Honestly, I wouldn't have anything to do with someone so horrifically self centered and selfish. 

I hope your husband divorces you so that you will no longer have him to blame for your problems.


----------



## As'laDain

Thatredhead said:


> If he agreed, I would be free. All I want is my sexual agency back, the freedom to choose who I have sex with. He holds the keys to that.
> 
> My resentment towards him is growing by the day though. I just can't respect a man who is so obtuse and stubborn.
> 
> I skipped Easter with his family. I can't even look at him right now.


So divorce. If it means so much, divorce.


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

Thatredhead said:


> If he agreed, I would be free. All I want is my sexual agency back, the freedom to choose who I have sex with. He holds the keys to that.
> 
> My resentment towards him is growing by the day though. I just can't respect a man who is so obtuse and stubborn.
> 
> I skipped Easter with his family. I can't even look at him right now.


skipping Easter was kind of what I meant in wanting to be free besides the free sexual agency.
Being married in the way that most people view it includes doing things you may not want to do.
Such as easter at the in-laws..
And yes, you two are free to decide what the new marriage would look like, but it doesn’t seem he wants to view it in the way you want.

you tho have had an awakening it seems and no longer want to fill that role.
Maybe you think it is only the sex thing, and maybe it is.

I guess what I am getting at is this.
Do you think it would hurt him more to stay married to him as you explore your new self than it would be to leave and let the wound heal?


----------



## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> By expecting better of him, I mean I expected him to be able to put aside any feelings of owning me or having a claim on me for my own well being. I expected a degree of enlightenment and liberalism not unusual for him, as he follows my lead on most important things. It's a serious let down and disappointment that he wants to continue the old patriarchal form of marriage when we both know there's a better way. Well I know there's a better way, he is being uncharacteristically stubborn.


I don't see him owning you at all. I see a guy who wants you to be faithful to him. That's what marriage is about, being faithful.
I expect my husband to be faithful to me as he does to him, so how is that in anyway patriarchal?


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> If he agreed, I would be free. All I want is my sexual agency back, the freedom to choose who I have sex with. He holds the keys to that.
> 
> My resentment towards him is growing by the day though. I just can't respect a man who is so obtuse and stubborn.
> 
> I skipped Easter with his family. I can't even look at him right now.


You're not getting it. 

He does NOT hold the key to your sexual agency or who you choose to have sex with. Only you hold that key. 

The only key he holds is whether he chooses to remain with you or not if you have sex with other people.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Thatredhead said:


> By expecting better of him, I mean I expected him to be able to put aside any feelings of owning me or having a claim on me for my own well being. I expected a degree of enlightenment and liberalism not unusual for him, as he follows my lead on most important things. It's a serious let down and disappointment that he wants to continue the old patriarchal form of marriage when we both know there's a better way. Well I know there's a better way, he is being uncharacteristically stubborn.


It is not patriarchal to be monogamous.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

oldshirt said:


> You're not getting it.
> 
> He does NOT hold the key to your sexual agency or who you choose to have sex with. Only you hold that key.
> 
> The only key he holds is whether he chooses to remain with you or not if you have sex with other people.


@Thatredhead is self centered to the max. She doesn't want to be the "bad guy" that broke up the marriage. But she wants to do everything by her own rules and no care for how her husband feels about it, as if she weren't married. She wants the appearance of normalcy, while underneath it is something completely different. She is basically a coward from my perspective. She won't even fully express the gravity of the situation to him for fear of his response.

She is demanding a hall pass and is resentful that her husband won't give it too her. She is perfectly capable of doing what and whom ever she wants, but is afraid of the consequences. That is all normal, the problem is she thinks that fear is a bad thing. The reality is that is a small bit of what keeps us nice to one another and faithful to one another.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> By expecting better of him, I mean I expected him to be able to put aside any feelings of owning me or having a claim on me for my own well being. I expected a degree of enlightenment and liberalism not unusual for him, as he follows my lead on most important things. It's a serious let down and disappointment that he wants to continue the old patriarchal form of marriage when we both know there's a better way. Well I know there's a better way, he is being uncharacteristically stubborn.


Does he know that he is "owning you" and "holding the key" the key to your sexual agency?? 

Or are you assigning that role to him without his knowledge and consent??

A few pages back I mentioned that I had come across a podcast where the host interviewed a number of women that had grown up in Purity Culture and like you married very young with their first suitor and then in middle age became very spiteful and resentful towards not only their upbringing and religious indoctrination but their husbands as well. 

I'm paraphrasing and applying some of my own interpretation but I really got the feeling that a good chunk of their resentment was that they felt their husbands were some how the enforcers as well as beneficiaries of their harsh and rigid upbringing. 

Like you they felt their husbands were their captors and tormentors and were the one somehow benefitting from their indoctrination and upbringing while they themselves were the victims and captives. 

This begs the question of whether their husbands ever once considered themselves captors and enforcers and as disordered as these chicks were, I doubt if they thought they were benefiting in any way from their harsh upbringing. 

You project a tremendous sense of victimization here. What the other posters are calling selfishness and entitlement, I am seeing as self-defeating sense of victimization. You are playing the victim card to nth degree. You are blaming your upbringing and your husband for your predicament as well as your own inaction. 

You say you are rebelling, but yet, there you are. 

You say you aren't attracted to or enjoy sex with your H but yet you are having sex with him. 

You say you want to have sex with other men, but yet you don't. 

You say you have talked to your H about this but yet you really haven't actually COMMUNICATED with him. 

Cont.......


----------



## oldshirt

Let me ask you a few questions -

- has your husband placed a chastity belt upon you?

- Has placed bars on the windows and bolted the doors from the inside? 

-Does he chain you to the bed? 

- Has he hired armed guards to guard the door to prevent your escape if he is out of the house? 

- Has he chopped off your foot like Kunta Kinte in the minis series Roots or "hobbled" you like Kathy Bates in the movie Misery?

If you were to run away from him, at 100lbs overweight, how far or how fast would he even be able to chase you?? 

And I'll go back to my original question in my post above - Does he even know that he is your captor and your guard? Does he know that owns you and has the key to your sexuality and does he even consent to being his guardian?

And if he is the beneficiary of this all oppression and dominance and control,, is he really benefiting if the woman he is with is repulsed by him, can't stand his touch, yearns to be with other men and has spite and resentment and bitterness growing by the day?? 

Maybe all that benefit and prize is why he is 100lb overweight, is plagued with sexual dysfunction and has to at least concede to you entertaining other women in your bed in attempt to keep other men out of said bed. 

Dang, where can I sign up!!! 

As you can see, this is all pretty messed up stuff and not at all healthy or productive. This is why everyone is so adement about seeking professional therapy.


----------



## jlg07

Thatredhead said:


> By expecting better of him, I mean I expected him to be able to put aside any feelings of owning me or having a claim on me for my own well being. I expected a degree of enlightenment and liberalism not unusual for him, as he follows my lead on most important things. It's a serious let down and disappointment that he wants to continue the old patriarchal form of marriage when we both know there's a better way. Well I know there's a better way, he is being uncharacteristically stubborn.


YOUR idea of a better way -- not his. HE won't let you have sex with other men -- that is not "owning" or "having a claim on you" -- it is HIS boundary that he does not want to share his wife.
You BOTH don't know there is a better way -- it is clearly NOT a better way for HIM because it breaches HIS boundaries of what he wants to accept in a wife.
It may be a better way for you.
In this, there is an impasse. You either give up sleeping with others and concentrate on you BOTH getting better at sex, or you give up and divorce.


----------



## Personal

Thatredhead said:


> If he agreed, I would be free. All I want is my sexual agency back, the freedom to choose who I have sex with. He holds the keys to that.


You’ve always had the freedom to choose who you have sex with. Your sexual agency has always belonged to you.

Since the reality is it has always been up to you, to choose to share sex with your husband or not. Just as it has always been your choice, whether to share sex with others or not, with or without your husbands agreement.

To believe you don’t have your own sexual agency, is flawed reasoning.


----------



## oldshirt

Personal said:


> You’ve always had the freedom to choose who you have sex with. Your sexual agency has always belonged to you.
> 
> Since the reality is it has always been up to you, to choose to share sex with your husband or not. Just as it has always been your choice, whether to share sex with others or not, with or without your husbands agreement.
> 
> To believe you don’t have your own sexual agency, is flawed reasoning.


This ^^^^

You have sexual agency and always have. 

Your husband only has agency over his own sexuality, not yours. 

He can't control your sexuality, only his own. He can't stop you from having sex or relationships with others. He can only stop you from having sex with and a relationship with HIMSELF. 

Shifting gears a bit, I need to tell you the story of elephant and the rope. 

Behind the scenes of a traveling circus, there were big african bull elephants leashed up behind the tents tied to regular ropes tied around their leg and tied to a stake in the ground waiting for their time to appear in the show. 

When people would see this and point out to the handlers that these thin ropes and small stakes couldn't possible hold back an elephant, the handlers would reply that the elephants themselves don't know that. 

From the day the elephants were born, the handlers would shackle a heavy chain to their leg and attached to a big post driven deep in the ground to teach the baby elephant that when he was shackled, he was immobile and couldn't go anywhere of his own volition. 

Over time the elephants became so conditioned that all it would take to immobilize them was any kind of rope tied around their leg and secured to something so that the moment they felt any kind of resistance on their leg, they would believe that they were effectively shackled and immobilized....... but in reality they really weren't. A good tug would be all that it would take for them to free themselves from their conditioned restraint. 

You are an elephant with a twine around your ankle. You think you are immobilized and restrained but you are not. It's just a conditioned response that you feel some superficial resistance and you think you are shackled, chained and imprisoned. But your not. You just think you are. 

Like the elephant, you are not aware of your own strength nor are you aware of the weakness and ineffectiveness of what you believe binds you.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

Mr red head deserves so much better. OP, you want to have your cake and eat it too. You are not going to get that in your marriage so either you divorce or you cheat. It's that simple.Your best course of action in this case, is to let him go.


----------



## maquiscat

Thatredhead said:


> ... for wanting my right to choose who shares my body.


As we have stated repeatedly, you already have that right. But there are two things that you aren't seeming to comprehend. First off, when you share your body with someone, you are sharing it with everyone you have ever had sex with. IOW, If I were to come have sex with you, you not only have me to contend with, but also my two wives and any g/f's I happen to have at that time. By this I am talking issues of health and STI's, not the actual people directly. In having sex with me, you risk all those other people having an STI and passing it on to you through me. Likewise, I take that risk with you, especially if you have already been having sex with other men or women. You husband has the same right to regulate the risk he takes, which means that he has to be informed about your activities. Not in the details, but that they are happening. He has his bodily rights as well.

Secondly, he has the right to not want this in his marriage. That might mean that you will not be in his marriage as a result. But trying to force him to do what you want when he doesn't is just you becoming him, in your claim that you are being forced by him to do what he wants. It is highly likely that you will have to choose; sex with other men, or marriage to him.


----------



## maquiscat

Thatredhead said:


> By expecting better of him, I mean I expected him to be able to put aside any feelings of owning me or having a claim on me for my own well being. I expected a degree of enlightenment and liberalism not unusual for him, as he follows my lead on most important things. It's a serious let down and disappointment that he wants to continue the old patriarchal form of marriage when we both know there's a better way. Well I know there's a better way, he is being uncharacteristically stubborn.


Be careful in using terms like "better" and such. They are subjective terms. Yes, you see your form of marriage as better, but that doesn't mean all people do. What you might call "worse" marriages, because they stick to more patriarchal patterns, other woman, yet alone men, might see them as better. Remember that there is no one true way. You want a better marriage for you, but that doesn't mean that it will be better for him. If you ignore that fact then you are not being much better than him (irony of word use noted).


----------



## maquiscat

@Thatredhead 


oldshirt said:


> You're not getting it.
> 
> He does NOT hold the key to your sexual agency or who you choose to have sex with. Only you hold that key.
> 
> The only key he holds is whether he chooses to remain with you or not if you have sex with other people.


Agreed. _You _are the one who is currently holding yourself back here insofar as you are honoring commitments made. Keep in mind that adultery is not a arrestable or finable law anymore. At most it is a grounds for divorce, but otherwise holds no legal penalty. But you are not the one who controls what he does or does not. The choice is yours. You either do without the men, or you do without the permission.


----------



## Diana7

maquiscat said:


> Be careful in using terms like "better" and such. They are subjective terms. Yes, you see your form of marriage as better, but that doesn't mean all people do. What you might call "worse" marriages, because they stick to more patriarchal patterns, other woman, yet alone men, might see them as better. Remember that there is no one true way. You want a better marriage for you, but that doesn't mean that it will be better for him. If you ignore that fact then you are not being much better than him (irony of word use noted).


I don't understand why a marriage is patriarchal simply by both wanting faithfulness and sex with each other only.


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## Tested_by_stress

There is no religious component to expecting Your partner to be faithful.i am sure my atheist buddy would strongly object to his wife getting some strange lol.


----------



## Numb26

Diana7 said:


> I don't understand why a marriage is patriarchal simply by both wanting faithfulness and sex with each other only.


Welcome to the brave new world


----------



## manwithnoname

Diana7 said:


> I don't understand why a marriage is patriarchal simply by both wanting faithfulness and sex with each other only.


It’s only patriarchal when the husband doesn’t allow his wife to sleep around, I guess.


----------



## manwithnoname

Thatredhead said:


> If he agreed, I would be free. All I want is my sexual agency back, the freedom to choose who I have sex with. He holds the keys to that.
> 
> My resentment towards him is growing by the day though. I just can't respect a man who is so obtuse and stubborn.
> 
> I skipped Easter with his family. I can't even look at him right now.


Was he not your first and only? How do you get sexual agency “back”?

Usually women lose respect for their husbands when they’re the ones who push for open marriages.

You hold keys as well. Divorce him, so you can be free to **** whoever you want, and more importantly, so he can be free of you.


----------



## Diceplayer

BigDaddyNY said:


> Another one with CDC data, putting the number a little higher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Average Number Of Sexual Partners For Women & Men: What's Normal? | mindbodygreen
> 
> 
> Here's how many partners men and women have slept with, plus how many sexual partners is too many and what to do when your partner's number feels too high.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mindbodygreen.com


Thank you for the information.


----------



## Thatredhead

maquiscat said:


> As we have stated repeatedly, you already have that right. But there are two things that you aren't seeming to comprehend. First off, when you share your body with someone, you are sharing it with everyone you have ever had sex with. IOW, If I were to come have sex with you, you not only have me to contend with, but also my two wives and any g/f's I happen to have at that time. By this I am talking issues of health and STI's, not the actual people directly. In having sex with me, you risk all those other people having an STI and passing it on to you through me. Likewise, I take that risk with you, especially if you have already been having sex with other men or women. You husband has the same right to regulate the risk he takes, which means that he has to be informed about your activities. Not in the details, but that they are happening. He has his bodily rights as well.
> 
> Secondly, he has the right to not want this in his marriage. That might mean that you will not be in his marriage as a result. But trying to force him to do what you want when he doesn't is just you becoming him, in your claim that you are being forced by him to do what he wants. It is highly likely that you will have to choose; sex with other men, or marriage to him.


Informed consent is one of the biggest reasons I haven't just gone ahead and gotten a boyfriend on the side. It wouldn't be fair to my husband to continue to sleep with me if he didn't know I was sleeping with someone else. That's a hard line I have trouble crossing and it's why I want him aware and consenting.

I don’t want to force him to accept my terms, I just need him to see what a perfectly reasonable and logical solution this is.


----------



## Diana7

Tested_by_stress said:


> There is no religious component to expecting Your partner to be faithful.i am sure my atheist buddy would strongly object to his wife getting some strange lol.


Absolutely. Whether I was a Christian or not I would want and expect faithfulness.


----------



## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> Informed consent is one of the biggest reasons I haven't just gone ahead and gotten a boyfriend on the side. It wouldn't be fair to my husband to continue to sleep with me if he didn't know I was sleeping with someone else. That's a hard line I have trouble crossing and it's why I want him aware and consenting.
> 
> I don’t want to force him to accept my terms, I just need him to see what a perfectly reasonable and logical solution this is.


Like the majority of people he knows that it's not a 'reasonable and logical' thing to do to committ adultery.
However you may be able to nag and force him into it eventually. It will end in tears though.
At this time you have stalemate.


----------



## Numb26

Diana7 said:


> Like the majority of people he knows that it's not a 'reasonable and logical' thing to do to committ adultery.
> However you may be able to nag and force him into it eventually. It will end in tears though.
> At this time you have stalemate.


Imagine the thinking it takes to believe sleeping around on your spouse is "reasonable and logical".


----------



## Thatredhead

BigDaddyNY said:


> It is not patriarchal to be monogamous.


It actually is. The whole current system of marriage and monogamy was designed to benefit men and increase wealth and property.


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## Diana7

Numb26 said:


> Imagine the thinking it takes to believe sleeping around on your spouse is "reasonable and logical".


Yes, it's totally bizarre. 😲


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## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> It actually is. The whole current system of marriage and monogamy was designed to benefit men and increase wealth and property.


Total nonsense. Monogamy is nothing to do with patricacy.


----------



## Thatredhead

Personal said:


> You’ve always had the freedom to choose who you have sex with. Your sexual agency has always belonged to you.
> 
> Since the reality is it has always been up to you, to choose to share sex with your husband or not. Just as it has always been your choice, whether to share sex with others or not, with or without your husbands agreement.
> 
> To believe you don’t have your own sexual agency, is flawed reasoning.


I gave away my sexual agency when I got married. Everyone does. It sucks, but that's monogamy. I want it back.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> Informed consent is one of the biggest reasons I haven't just gone ahead and gotten a boyfriend on the side. It wouldn't be fair to my husband to continue to sleep with me if he didn't know I was sleeping with someone else. That's a hard line I have trouble crossing and it's why I want him aware and consenting.
> 
> I don’t want to force him to accept my terms, I just need him to see what a perfectly reasonable and logical solution this is.


It may seem a reasonable and logical solution for YOU, but it is not a reasonable or logical solution for HIM. 

As Maquiscat said above, you are not recognizing, respecting or accepting his agency.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Thatredhead said:


> I gave away my sexual agency when I got married. Everyone does. It sucks, but that's monogamy. I want it back.


Then divorce.


----------



## Numb26

Thatredhead said:


> I gave away my sexual agency when I got married. Everyone does. It sucks, but that's monogamy. I want it back.


Then divorce him


----------



## TexasMom1216

Thatredhead said:


> It actually is. The whole current system of marriage and monogamy was designed to benefit men and increase wealth and property.


It rings hollow for you to complain about a patriarchal system when you’re hiding behind it. No one is forcing you to stay married.


----------



## maquiscat

Thatredhead said:


> Informed consent is one of the biggest reasons I haven't just gone ahead and gotten a boyfriend on the side. It wouldn't be fair to my husband to continue to sleep with me if he didn't know I was sleeping with someone else. That's a hard line I have trouble crossing and it's why I want him aware and consenting.


Good. This is the first post where you have clearly stated this concept. You may have been trying to in other posts, but this one is very clear. And I'm very glad to see it.



> I don’t want to force him to accept my terms, I just need him to see what a perfectly reasonable and logical solution this is.


Reasonable ultimately is a subjective value. Logic is based on premises which can also be subjective. What you want is _not_ universally reasonable and logical. That is the dilemma you face. That is the reality you need to deal with. Odds are he will not turn around to your way of thinking. If he were inclined he would have jumped at the chance. If he were one of the ones who can go either mono or poly/open, he would have already allowed it, safety assurances aside. You honestly need to either start making other plans or settle in for no other men.


----------



## maquiscat

Thatredhead said:


> It actually is. The whole current system of marriage and monogamy was designed to benefit men and increase wealth and property.


Not really. One can also be monogamous and matriarchal. Monogamy has nothing to do with which sex holds the power.


----------



## Thatredhead

oldshirt said:


> It may seem a reasonable and logical solution for YOU, but it is not a reasonable or logical solution for HIM.
> 
> As Maquiscat said above, you are not recognizing, respecting or accepting his agency.


I do respect his agency, which is why I haven't cheated. However I think his reasoning is flawed and to put it bluntly, full of ****. He said, out loud, he actually said, he couldn't stand the thought of another man touching me. Like I'm property or something he owns. That level of machismo and his feeling of entitlement to me is the biggest turn off, even more than the extra 100lbs.


----------



## maquiscat

Thatredhead said:


> I gave away my sexual agency when I got married. Everyone does. It sucks, but that's monogamy. I want it back.


Incorrect. Your agency remains. When you marry, if you are going to be monogamous, you choose not to exercise that agency. In your case, you are choosing to to exercise it for whatever reasons you want your husband's permission for. There is not a single thing stopping you save your own morals and scruples. It's your choice and agency.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> I gave away my sexual agency when I got married. Everyone does. It sucks, but that's monogamy. I want it back.


If you feel you gave it up by marrying, then what will make you feel like you have agency back is to divorce. 

The catch here is you are wanting your H to give you your agency back. But he can’t give it back because he doesn’t have it in the first place. 

The only sexual agency he has is his own. He can only determine what he does. 

You can walk out the door and bang some other dude right now if you wanted. He can’t stop you. 

The most he could do about it is choose to no longer be with you. 

He can only decide what he does with his own genitalia. He doesn’t decide what you do with yours.


----------



## Diana7

Thatredhead said:


> I do respect his agency, which is why I haven't cheated. However I think his reasoning is flawed and to put it bluntly, full of ****. He said, out loud, he actually said, he couldn't stand the thought of another man touching me. Like I'm property or something he owns. That level of machismo and his feeling of entitlement to me is the biggest turn off, even more than the extra 100lbs.


Then you have no business being married to him. HE is being the reasonable and logical one here not you. 
Honestly you are acting like a toddler having a tantrum because they can't have some sweeties in a shop. 
If you resent him and marriage so much then leave.


----------



## oldshirt

Thatredhead said:


> I do respect his agency, which is why I haven't cheated. However I think his reasoning is flawed and to put it bluntly, full of ****. He said, out loud, he actually said, he couldn't stand the thought of another man touching me. Like I'm property or something he owns. That level of machismo and his feeling of entitlement to me is the biggest turn off, even more than the extra 100lbs.


Or could it be that he loves you and wants to be with you and he wants to be the one you want and desire? 

What you are seeing as ownership and entitlement and machismo most people see as simply wanting sexuality as something intimate and special between themselves.

You have a very toxic, negative and disordered view of marriage, This is why people are urging you to get into therapy so much.


----------



## Personal

Thatredhead said:


> I gave away my sexual agency when I got married. Everyone does. It sucks, but that's monogamy. I want it back.


Actually you didn’t give any sexual agency away at all, and nor does anyone else. Since if marriage really did remove a person’s sexual agency. There would be no such thing as marital infidelity or sexless marriages, all of which occur, with considerable frequency.


----------



## snowbum

This is well intended, so take it for what it's worth. 
I think you're in a full blown midlife crisis. You're blaming your parents for the fact you got married. You're blaming your husband for not wanting his wife to act like a skank. You're asking to live like a porn star , yet keep your traditional family intact.

I don't know why you don't divorce. You do not love your husband. You don't. You are repeating a word and claiming it to be true. All the while stating that he : owns you, controls you, disregards your feelings (honestly most people wouldn't want their spouse banging others), he's bad in bed, and fat. If all this is true, it would be virtually impossible to love someone as you've describe.

I think you're either severely depressed or a sociopath. According to you nothing is your fault and you are a total victim. Before you try to own you sex life, try fixing the situation around you. Woman up and divorce. You don't want to be "property"? Get a job, pay your own way, and leave. Be your own woman without ruining someone's world. You claim your life would be perfect if your husband allowed you sleep around? This is bizarre. Either this is all fake or you truly need help.


----------



## oldshirt

maquiscat said:


> Incorrect. Your agency remains. When you marry, if you are going to be monogamous, you choose not to exercise that agency. In your case, you are choosing to to exercise it for whatever reasons you want your husband's permission for. There is not a single thing stopping you save your own morals and scruples. It's your choice and agency.


This above is something I have been thinking as well but it is almost getting into the realm of psychoanalysis and therapy etc which none of us is qualified for. 

But @Thatredhead I think it is in fact YOUR definition of marriage and what you see as the rules and boundaries of marriage that are tormenting you so bad. 

It is in fact YOUR scruples and morals and values and your beliefs that are governing your actions and NOT your husband. 
You are in fact exercising your own morals and your agency by remaining monogamous. 

You may sound like a spoiled brat stomping your feet and screaming, "I want I want I want!!!" but you are in fact determining and exercising your own moral values and sexual agency by remaining sexual monogamous with a man you do not desire and are not satisfied by. 

It is that dichotomy and contradiction between your wants and desires VS your moral compass and beliefs on marriage and commitment and your own sexual self determinism that are driving you insane. This is a classic ego vs the Id conflict. 

It is YOUR sexual agency and self determinism that is keeping you faithful to your H. 

You say you are nonmonogamous and not marriage material, but yet you have remained fiercely loyal and faithful despite overwhelming temptation and desire. 

In the absences of jail cells and chains and shackles, no man can prevent any woman from exercising her own sexual agency. If a woman so chooses to have sex with a man(s), she will do it and no one can stop her without the use of chains and bars. 

You are choosing to remain monogamous with your husband. You just wish that you weren't and that internal conflict is what is causing your angst. 

This is why you need therapy to unravel all your internal conflicts and unpack all your baggage come to some kind of awareness and game plan to where you don't drive yourself into the nuthouse where you'll be sitting in a rubber room rubbing poop in your hair.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Thatredhead said:


> I do respect his agency, which is why I haven't cheated. However I think his reasoning is flawed and to put it bluntly, full of ****. He said, out loud, he actually said, he couldn't stand the thought of another man touching me. Like I'm property or something he owns. That level of machismo and his feeling of entitlement to me is the biggest turn off, even more than the extra 100lbs.





oldshirt said:


> Or could it be that he loves you and wants to be with you and he wants to be the one you want and desire?
> 
> What you are seeing as ownership and entitlement and machismo most people see as simply wanting sexuality as something intimate and special between themselves.
> 
> You have a very toxic, negative and disordered view of marriage, This is why people are urging you to get into therapy so much.


@oldshirt nailed it. 

I can't stand the thought of other men touching my wife or being intimate with her because that is something special only between me and her, which is part of marriage in my view. I am neither entitled to her exclusivity or own her. She freely gives me that exclusivity and I give it to her. To us, that is what marriage is. Our marriage is a formalization and announcement to the world of that exclusivity. Yours was too at the time you married. Now, many years into your marriage you are pissed because he won't give you his blessing to change that exclusivity agreement. As others have said, he can't physically stop you from doing anything, but that isn't what this is about. You want his blessing so you can have a clear conscience.

What is really twisted is you are mad because he supposedly has control over your body and won't give his blessing for you to have sex with other men. At the same time you are giving him that control by wanting his permission.


----------



## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> What is really twisted is you are mad because he supposedly has control over your body and won't give his blessing for you to have sex with other men. At the same time you are giving him that control by wanting his permission.


This is the reason why I think she's hiding behind "patriarchy," etc, when really what she wants is to not be held responsible for her choices. If he gives her "permission" to sleep around and it goes badly, she then has plausible deniability: "My husband is the leader in our marriage, he told me this was ok and he was wrong. He should have stopped me." She's complaining about being controlled while using that control to avoid taking ownership of herself. It's childish and manipulative.


----------



## seadoug105

Welcome to your mid-life crisis!

I’ll be honest… I have not read much of the thread, but a lot sees clear to me.

Whatever new ”modern woman”/”modern feminist” friends you have met that have “opened your mind“ to this “reality” have damaged your future happiness.

it is clear you will never find your husband enough. He knows this already…. It’s partly why you have already seen him become more self conscious…. And that will always make you feel empty.

You WILL eventually begin having meaningless sex with random men or more likely semi random men/man you already have in mind.

Not too far down the road you will begin to miss the connection you *HAD* with you husband. However even if you get back with him it will never truly feel the same, because your “special-ness” will no longer exist for him. You have changed but he will always love who he thought you were.

Of course he could always move on and find someone new and be much happier…. Someone that would truly love him and never want to kill that “special-ness”…

good luck to you!


----------



## seadoug105

TexasMom1216 said:


> This is the reason why I think she's hiding behind "patriarchy," etc, when really what she wants is to not be held responsible for her choices. If he gives her "permission" to sleep around and it goes badly, she then has plausible deniability: "My husband is the leader in our marriage, he told me this was ok and he was wrong. He should have stopped me." She's complaining about being controlled while using that control to avoid taking ownership of herself. It's childish and manipulative.


I think it also fills 2 other rolls and possibly a third…
First… Credibility with her new ”modern feminist“ friends that put this idea in her head…

Second… protect her reputation because “it wasn’t cheating”…. Little does she know people would judge her even worse once if they knew..

possible third… cover for the cheating she has already done


----------



## TexasMom1216

Never mind, I asked a question then went back through the thread and found the answer.


----------



## oldshirt

Lemme see if I can break this down and simplify things a bit. 

You are not only wanting your husband to say it's ok for you to have sex with other men (what you are calling giving your agency back) but you are also wanting to be free from the ramifications and consequences of doing so. 

You are wanting to get with other men but not have anything else change in home life because of it. 

Your husband is simply being honest that you screwing other men will hurt him and will change how he feels about you and about your relationship with him. If you screw other men, he will lose love and esteem and respect for you and it will hurt him deeply and sadden him that you find other men more desirable and want to be with them. 

He can't change that within himself. He can't grant you your wish and not have it not hurt him or sadden him or fundamentally change the way he feels about you. 

Your asking him to not be hurt or saddened or threatened by you having sex with other men. He can't do that because there is nothing he can do that will eliminate his hurt, sadness, insecurity and loss of esteem for you or eliminate the impact that you screwing other men will have on how feels about you and how he feels about your relationship. 

That is not patriarchy. That is not ownership. That is not dominance and above all else it is NOT controlling because he can not control his own feels in this matter. 

You are not just asking him to have sex with other men. You are asking him to not be human and not to have his own feelings and his own insecurities and fears and his own sadness be a part of it. 

You are asking him to not be human. You are asking him to be a machine that you can reprogram. He is not a machine.


----------



## Rob_1

I already concluded that the problem at hand is not that OP wants to **** other men, but that she has a pathetic, sad excuse of a man for a husband that little by little has been giving away his dignity and self respect by allowing the OP to do her skanky crap, like her freak show online, and whatever other shenanigans OP has conjured up so far. We have a man that repeatedly has been told in his face that his wife wants to **** other men and all the pathetic dude does is to keep refusing. Were OP my wife, I would have kicked her out of my life the next second she would insinuate that **** to me the very first time. Only weak, pathetic beta men allow what OP has been, and is trying to do. I guess so knows it and that's why she feels emboldened enough to disrespect her husband right in his face because she knows she can, she has no respect for her husband.

This ******** about asking his permission is nothing but a hypocritical way to absolve herself for what she wants to do. In my opinion this hypocrite OP should just go ahead and fulfill her carnal lust because in my opinion the most likely outcome of it is the pathetic husband crying and reluctantly accepting whatever she decides to do with whomever.


----------



## oldshirt

Numb26 said:


> Imagine the thinking it takes to believe sleeping around on your spouse is "reasonable and logical".


We tend to see the world and see other people not as they really are but how we are. 

When you have lost all love and esteem and respect and desire for someone, but you want to continue to receive their financial support and domestic assistance in picking the cat up from the vet when your tied up etc - it does become reasonable and logical to outsource your romantic and sexual needs. 

Side story: I have had a couple female roommates over the years in my single days. There was no romantic or sexual feelings or involvement with them at all despite them being very attractive and desirable people in general. We shared the rent and utilities and the domestic chores and we were good platonic friends. 

But I would bring home women and couch cuddle with them while we would all be watching movies or whatever and I would entertain them in my bedroom etc and likewise my female roommates would bring home boyfriends and get all dolled up and go on dates and have sex with them etc and all was well. 

That is essentially what the OP is wanting her marriage to be. To her it is reasonable and logic because she has no romantic/sexual feelings for him at all. She is basically wanting to friend zone him to the degree that they each become involved with other people but she wants him to continue paying the bills and raise the kids and kill spiders etc. 

But he is not at that level of disconnect yet. (YET! He probably will be once she does start screwing others but we haven't got to that chapter yet) 

He still wants to have romantic/sexual relationship with her and he is not at her level of disconnect or her level of friend zone yet. 

She is basically asking him to turn off his romantic/sexual want and desire for her and turn off his sadness and insecurity and his want for a monogamous sexual relationship and to have virtually no change in the status quo of their marriage. 

What she is calling patriarchy and ownership and control and dominance etc etc is in reality him just saying he can not simply turn off his feelings for her and his want to continue to have romantic/sexual component to their marriage.


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## oldshirt

Rob_1 said:


> I already concluded that the problem at hand is not that OP wants to *** other men, but that she has a pathetic, sad excuse of a man for a husband that little by little has been giving away his dignity and self respect by allowing the OP to do her skanky crap, like her freak show online, and whatever other shenanigans OP has conjured up so far. We have a man that repeatedly has been told in his face that his wife wants to *** other men and all the pathetic dude does is to keep refusing. Were OP my wife, I would have kicked her out of my life the next second she would insinuate that **** to me the very first time. Only weak, pathetic beta men allow what OP has been, and is trying to do. I guess so knows it and that's why she feels emboldened enough to disrespect her husband right in his face because she knows she can, she has no respect for her husband.


Yes. 

She has lost all esteem, respect, love, desire and attraction for him,,,,, if she ever had it in the first place. 

She sees him as nothing more than a roommate that pays the bills, helps shuttle the kids to their activities and kills big scary spiders when the show up in the bathroom. 

The reason why she's carrying on and being so tortured by this however is there is a tiny shred of humanity left in her to where she wants complete absolution to where he won't be hurt, won't be upset with her, won't stop paying bills and killing spiders and so she won't be judged by other people but especially not judge by HERSELF for violating her own mores and beliefs and values on marriage. 

He can't give her the absolution that she wants because he still loves her and wants to be with her and he knows that the moment she gets with a man that she finds attractive and has an orgasm with, that it will be game-over for him.


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## As'laDain

There is nothing enlightened in whining about the institution of marriage while demanding all the comforts it provides. 

There is nothing enlightened about using your husband for financial and logistical support while also using other men purely for sex. 

She just wants to use people and have people pat her on the head and tell her she is being a good girl. Otherwise she would just do it and accept the consequences.


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## oldshirt

As'laDain said:


> She just wants to use people and have people pat her on the head and tell her she is being a good girl.


Yes this.


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## ConanHub

Thatredhead said:


> It actually is. The whole current system of marriage and monogamy was designed to benefit men and increase wealth and property.


Well you certainly have some silly ideas rattling around don't you?

Monogamy certainly would seem to benefit women because in a strictly cynical and practical world, men will have, and often have, obtained more than one wife and concubines as well.

I'm not expressing my personal views as I fully support one man having one woman but if you had to pick me or my wife to have more than one mate, I would be the choice hands down and no competition.

This model has been seen throughout history being exercised at all kinds of levels.

The reverse has been far more rare.

At really low tribal levels, pretty much anything goes but not at higher levels of civilization.


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## jlg07

Thatredhead said:


> I just need him to see what a perfectly reasonable and logical solution this is.


You are neglecting the EMOTIONAL part of the equation here. Logic, maybe to you. BUT you are not dealing with a computer -- this is a real live person and people live on emotions (usually even MORE than logic). Your H isn't Spock -- he has feelings, and HE feels that he does NOT want to share you. It really is that simple
So -- your choices:
Stay with your H, try to improve your sex life with him within the marriage
Cheat on your H -- which leads to all sorts of disastrous ramifications (just read a few stories here...)
Divorce your H.

The sort-of choice YOU want is to brow-beat your H to agree that you can go out and bang other guys. Even IF you do this, I hope you realize it will destroy your marriage.....


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## 354922

Thatredhead said:


> We've been married since high school, 20 years this year. I married young to escape a difficult home situation where I was raised in a restrictive religious cult. He was my first sexual experience. I didn't know anything about being a real wife or about real life and hated sex for a long time. After kids that changed. Now I have a sex drive and I'm interested in lots of men and feel cheated out of a fulfilling sex life because I was basically forced into an early marriage. I want everything I missed out on, everything that normal people have before they settle down. BUT...BIG BUT....I love my husband and don't want him to be hurt. We've spoken about this many times and he understands where I'm coming from. However he just can't bring himself to open up the marriage, even though I am more than willing for him to find other partners. I think it would be good for him to have the same experience, as we both missed out. He is completely uninterested. He wishes he could grant me what I want but he says he is worried about pregnancy and disease. I dont really believe that. I think it's male pride or some sort of cultural aversion.
> 
> I know everyone is going to say get a divorce but that's not what either of us wants. At least not yet. We have kids and a home and property and a life. I think it is ridiculous to blow that all up because of sex. There has to be middle ground, some agreement to be reached. I just don't know how to reconcile all of this.
> 
> Anyway, I've been reading here for awhile but haven't seen anything close to my situation.


I have a lover who is polyamorous, The most important thing is that the primary relationship (he and his wife) is regarded as such, always. Everything is discussed openly. They’ve been married since they were very young, are now close to sixty, have three children that are grown. They children were teenagers when they talked with them about opening up their marriage.


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## 354922

Tested_by_stress said:


> What is it that you think you'll get from others that you can't get from your husband?


Every person is different, and opening your heart mind and body up will expand your soul immeasurably…..but it has to be good for both you and your husband. That’s the primary relationship.


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## As'laDain

knappp said:


> Every person is different, and opening your heart mind and body up will expand your soul immeasurably…..but it has to be good for both you and your husband. That’s the primary relationship.


Not everyone practices hierarchical non-monogamy, so for some of us, there really isn't a primary relationship. But yeah, making sure everyone fully understands and is ok with things is the one basic requirement to making it work. But, that also applies to any close relationship. 

In her case, she doesn't even really want another relationship. She just wants sex. So, swinging would fit better than what is typically described as polyamory. 

I can't do swinging since I am very demisexual. It just wouldn't work for me.


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## Diana7

knappp said:


> Every person is different, and opening your heart mind and body up will expand your soul immeasurably…..but it has to be good for both you and your husband. That’s the primary relationship.


It really won't expand your soul immeasurably. Not at all.


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## Dictum Veritas

This is what it has come to? Some people just shouldn't marry at all. It will make life endlessly easier and less painful for the rest of us who just want to have a normal marriage and nuclear family. Alas, all too often one of these people find their way into our lives, convinces us that they are like us and proceeds to destroy our hearts, souls minds and mental stability.

If you are too damaged to form a healthy pair-bond with another healthy human being, do us all a favor, stop using patriarchy and -ists and -isms for an excuse that you are a broken person at the core and please stay the hell away from good men and women. We don't need to be blown apart because you are not fixable.

Damaged people damage people and it sickens me when these people latch onto good people.


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## drencrom

As'laDain said:


> There is nothing enlightened in whining about the institution of marriage while demanding all the comforts it provides.
> 
> There is nothing enlightened about using your husband for financial and logistical support while also using other men purely for sex.
> 
> She just wants to use people and have people pat her on the head and tell her she is being a good girl. Otherwise she would just do it and accept the consequences.


There is nothing enlightening about being a cheating POS and trying to justify it every way to Sunday.


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## jleftwing97

Thatredhead said:


> We've been married since high school, 20 years this year. I married young to escape a difficult home situation where I was raised in a restrictive religious cult. He was my first sexual experience. I didn't know anything about being a real wife or about real life and hated sex for a long time. After kids that changed. Now I have a sex drive and I'm interested in lots of men and feel cheated out of a fulfilling sex life because I was basically forced into an early marriage. I want everything I missed out on, everything that normal people have before they settle down. BUT...BIG BUT....I love my husband and don't want him to be hurt. We've spoken about this many times and he understands where I'm coming from. However he just can't bring himself to open up the marriage, even though I am more than willing for him to find other partners. I think it would be good for him to have the same experience, as we both missed out. He is completely uninterested. He wishes he could grant me what I want but he says he is worried about pregnancy and disease. I dont really believe that. I think it's male pride or some sort of cultural aversion.
> 
> I know everyone is going to say get a divorce but that's not what either of us wants. At least not yet. We have kids and a home and property and a life. I think it is ridiculous to blow that all up because of sex. There has to be middle ground, some agreement to be reached. I just don't know how to reconcile all of this.
> 
> Anyway, I've been reading here for awhile but haven't seen anything close to my situation.



If he's that bad at sex then why stay with that long?. How were you forced into a marriage as you're the one who said "I do"? This comes across as completely selfish on your part. Just get a divorce already as neither of you wants the same thing and you probably already cheated from how your post is written.


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## Redpilledguru2024

Thatredhead said:


> We've been married since high school, 20 years this year. I married young to escape a difficult home situation where I was raised in a restrictive religious cult. He was my first sexual experience. I didn't know anything about being a real wife or about real life and hated sex for a long time. After kids that changed. Now I have a sex drive and I'm interested in lots of men and feel cheated out of a fulfilling sex life because I was basically forced into an early marriage. I want everything I missed out on, everything that normal people have before they settle down. BUT...BIG BUT....I love my husband and don't want him to be hurt. We've spoken about this many times and he understands where I'm coming from. However he just can't bring himself to open up the marriage, even though I am more than willing for him to find other partners. I think it would be good for him to have the same experience, as we both missed out. He is completely uninterested. He wishes he could grant me what I want but he says he is worried about pregnancy and disease. I dont really believe that. I think it's male pride or some sort of cultural aversion.
> 
> I know everyone is going to say get a divorce but that's not what either of us wants. At least not yet. We have kids and a home and property and a life. I think it is ridiculous to blow that all up because of sex. There has to be middle ground, some agreement to be reached. I just don't know how to reconcile all of this.
> 
> Anyway, I've been reading here for awhile but haven't seen anything close to my situation.


Yeah there’s a pattern that open relationships go south like the pregnancy and STDs damn skippy he’s right it has nothing to do with men pride at all it’s a realistic thing


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## Truth_advice

No.....if i was your husband i would be divorcing you ASAP just for even thinking that..
You created a marriage pact that nobody forced you into. Nobody held a weapon to your head telling you to Mary.like i said i don't tolerate such foolish behavior...
My grandfather told me this......never ever ever be so caught up with a women that you are to afraid to leave......never not after 1 year not after a 100. 

Good luck


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## Truth_advice

Wow so I guess the husband went along with it well the fact that their husband is really big as a party size explains it All she's probably going to find somebody that fills up really good and she's going to ignore the husband my husband will pretty much and the marriage is over I really do think the husband should have reconsider this but on top of that the husband should be better himself not for her but for himself and I hope you're reading this but if I were you but I'd make sure call it a divorce there's no
saving it.


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## Truth_advice

To the wife........ Be careful what you wish for just might get it. 
She doesn't love her husband and I hope to have a husband realizes that the marriage is over the moment that he steps into that club is the moment he loses his manhood he will not be able to recover cannot handle it I know so the only reason he's agreed it's because she has been festering him on and on and on about it. But the moment he goes to that swingers club winter and a moment when she decides to hunt down with some outfit chat and the moment that he sees her is the moment he's going to feel the pain he may cry in front he may be really painful the marriage is over and I think the best course of action will be to divorce before you hurt somebody else even worse......a husband that woke up everyday to go to work sacrificed hours of his life to raise you and offspring to have a better life......he build a name for himself at work at church at the community and to throw it all away.....all for "oh i haven't tried a big sausage" booooo hooooo......go ahead eat your cake just don't complain about dis ease..... 
Sun Zhu said if you go to battle be prepared to dig 2 graves one for your oponent and one for yourself.....but twist it a bit.......
Be prepared to divorce.........because you are messing with fire and I'm telling you.......you will hurt your husband more than you could ever imagine.......
Many military veterans wished they would have died in battle rather than seeing their wife's cheat when they were out fighting with the potential they couldn't ever come back home......and they thought they had a loyal wife.
Like i said you are messing with fire. And if that fire spreads else where........don't you even come back here and complain. We told you so.

And you know what yeah he owns you in a sense and you own him....


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