# Wife cheated before marriage



## alone24

I've been in a relationship with my wife for 6 years, married 2+ years, and we have a 11 month old son. We're from different countries and now live together in my home country. We're both 27. 

8 months ago, my wife confessed out of the blue to cheating on me before we were married. She cheated 2 years into the relationship, immediately after we started dating long-distance, and about a month before we got engaged (we started dating LD to make it easier to eventually live together). At this time, we were very serious and were talking often about marriage. 

She says she liked the OM, spent a lot of time with him for a month, kissed him on one occasion, and had sex with him on one occasion. She said she called it off after that and didn't see him again (hard to believe as as far as I know they lived in the same apartment complex and worked for the same large company).

When she cheated we were were living in different countries (and very different timezones) so I had no idea anything was going on. I visited her after 4 months apart and we got engaged. On that trip, she let me use her phone and I found an old text from a guy calling her 'hon'. I asked her who he was and she went absolutely insane, threated to break up with me for not trusting her, etc. And to show my remorse, she made me razor my hair. Because I felt so awful for (sort-of) accusing her I razored my hair at her insistance for 1 year. And anytime I complained (because I absolutely hated it), she would say 'Remember what you did?'. Now, it turns out she was cheating and I was punished for catching her. 

She said she didn't confess at the time because she knew I would leave her (correct!). She said she told me now because she feels guilty about what she did. 

However, she refuses to discuss what happened. She will not answer any of my questions, and has threatened to leave me and take our son to her home country if I act as if anything has changed between us. 

But I am completely devestated by what she did - the cheating, the lying, my punishment, telling me after we had a child (thereby trapping me), and refusing to acknowledge my pain now.

I also have a feeling she is lying about the very little she did tell me. For example, says she used protection, but I know she secretly ordered a home HIV-test kit about 9 months after when she said she cheated (the test never got delivered though and she does not have HIV). 

So I feel stuck/trapped. Cheating is a deal-breaker for me. I would have left her if I had known about this before we had our son. So, I want to D, but cannot because of my son, for a number of reasons: 
- I will not do anything that could jeopardise my ability to see him everyday
- we are from different countries, so if we D one of us will only see our son very infrequently
- despite the cheating, my wife is a great, selfless mother. My son needs her in his life everyday too. 

So I don't know what to do. If I act as if nothing has changed things seem ok but I am (secretly) sad all the time. I thought it might get easier but it's been 8 months and it isn't. 

What should I do? How can I get my wife to talk about what happened so I can get some closure and move on? And if she won't talk, how can I cope without the answers I need? 

I have no one to talk to about this, so would really appreciate any suggestions.


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## In_The_Wind

Are you sure your son is yours ??? do you want to divorce or reconcile ? 

Are you sure she still isnt seeing the OM ??


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## alone24

My wife is definately not cheating now, and she is definately not still seeing the OM. She cheated about 4 years ago, and has since moved countries twice. 

I have no concerns that she will cheat in the future. She has matured a lot as a person since she cheated and will not do it again. 

I am more concerned with the fact that she has faced no consequences for cheating while I am in so much pain. 

My son is mine - I am sure about that. 

D is not an option because of my son, so I guess, by default, I want to reconcile.


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## the guy

Your kidding, right?


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## the guy

With out consequences, bad behavior continues.

Why did she cheat in the 1st place?

Has that even been addressed?

I mean what has she done to affair proof her marriage other then get older?

Sorry brother but it only took 5 years after my wifes 1st affair for her to do it again. 

So yes you are correct that she has not learned a damn thing but you are so wrong in the fact that this won't happen again! 

Think about it, she knows you aren't going anywere so beside her guilt what makes you think that the next time will be any different?


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## barbados

At a MINIMUM, you need to find out the REAL reason she told you now. Out of the blue now she feels guilty is bull ! Then you need to DNA test your child and see if it is yours. Also get checked for STD's.


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## AngryandUsed

Choose, Alone 24, between "live in pain" or "find out the whole truth" about her cheating.

You will not heal without full truth and serious conseling. Without healing will you say you have a marriage?


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## aug

alone24 said:


> ...
> 
> 
> When she cheated we were were living in different countries (and very different timezones) so I had no idea anything was going on. I visited her after 4 months apart and we got engaged. On that trip, she let me use her phone and I found an old text from a guy calling her 'hon'. *I asked her who he was and she went absolutely insane, threated to break up with me for not trusting her, etc. And to show my remorse, she made me razor my hair. Because I felt so awful for (sort-of) accusing her I razored my hair at her insistance for 1 year. And anytime I complained (because I absolutely hated it), she would say 'Remember what you did?'.* Now, it turns out she was cheating and I was punished for catching her.
> 
> She said she didn't confess at the time because she knew I would leave her (correct!). She said she told me now because she feels guilty about what she did.
> 
> However, she refuses to discuss what happened. She will not answer any of my questions, and *has threatened to leave me and take our son to her home country if I act as if anything has changed between us. *
> 
> *But I am completely devestated by what she did - the cheating, the lying, my punishment, telling me after we had a child (thereby trapping me), and refusing to acknowledge my pain now.*
> 
> I also have a feeling she is lying about the very little she did tell me. For example, says she used protection, but I know she secretly ordered a home HIV-test kit about 9 months after when she said she cheated (the test never got delivered though and she does not have HIV).
> 
> So I feel stuck/trapped. Cheating is a deal-breaker for me. I would have left her if I had known about this before we had our son. So, I want to D, but cannot because of my son, for a number of reasons:
> - I will not do anything that could jeopardise my ability to see him everyday
> - we are from different countries, so if we D one of us will only see our son very infrequently
> - *despite the cheating, my wife is a great, selfless mother. My son needs her in his life everyday too. *


Your wife is a B.

I dont see her as a "great, selfless mother" since she threatened to make sure her son will not have a father in his life.

Do not be afraid to lose your marriage. You have to be prepared to lose the marriage in order to have a chance at saving it.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

alone24 said:


> *My wife is definately not cheating now*, and she is definately not still seeing the OM. She cheated about 4 years ago, and has since moved countries twice.
> 
> *I have no concerns that she will cheat in the future. She has matured a lot as a person since she cheated and will not do it again. *
> 
> I am more concerned with the fact that she has faced no consequences for cheating while I am in so much pain.
> 
> *My son is mine - I am sure about that. *
> 
> D is not an option because of my son, so I guess, by default, I want to reconcile.


Listen, you never thought your wife had cheated to begin with. Right?... So you're with her 24/7 now? I don't say this to be a d1ck, but if she cheated once, there is a always a possibility that she could cheat again. Maybe not tomorrow, but some day. 

You don't DNA test just to see if you're the Father. It gives her a consequence to her cheating on you, Just like an STD test would be also, if this had happen recently that is. It opens her eyes to some of the negative side effect of cheating on you.

The fact that divorce is "not a option", yet another consequence she's not worried about. If someone in your position brings up divorce, it doesn't mean that they're going to file. It would show her that you are serious about this and if it where to ever happen again...

You were apart for 4 months. She lived near the OM. They worked at the same place. And only Once... My guess is that she had sex more than once. Tell her you're scheduling a polygraph test. Her reaction alone should tell you that they had sex more than once.


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## aug

DNA tests are about $100.


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## Will_Kane

alone24 said:


> *I found an old text from a guy calling her 'hon'. I asked her who he was and she went absolutely insane, threated to break up with me for not trusting her, etc. And to show my remorse, she made me razor my hair. Because I felt so awful for (sort-of) accusing her I razored my hair at her insistance for 1 year. And anytime I complained (because I absolutely hated it), she would say 'Remember what you did?'*. Now, it turns out she was cheating and I was punished for catching her.


I think this tells a lot about your relationship with her.

She insisted you razor your hair, something she KNEW you HATED for a WHOLE YEAR, and you did it, saying she would leave you if you didn't.

At a minimum, I think you should insist she shave her head for a year, or else you will leave her. Since in my book her cheating is 10 times worse than what you did, you should insist she shave her head for 10 years.

Honestly, what kind of vengeful person makes a demand like the one your then fiance made? When you were right all along? And kept it up for A WHOLE YEAR?

And how did you go along with something like that?

And now this: _*"However, she refuses to discuss what happened. She will not answer any of my questions, and has threatened to leave me and take our son to her home country if I act as if anything has changed between us."*_

STILL UP TO HER SAME OLD TRICKS.

Yet still, you post this: *"She has matured a lot as a person since she cheated and will not do it again."* 

Her threat to leave you and take your son if you "act as if anything has changed" between the two of you is just more of the same. She has not matured.

You can't go through your life being blackmailed by your wife. What next? She has complete control over you it seems.


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## jnj express

You let her make an absolute fool out of you, she "dissed" you---made you look like a clown---OVER SOMETHING SHE DID

Now you are letting her do this again-------stop with the I can do nothing cuz of my son----1st she can't just take your son----that all gets decided in the courts---If she tries to leave prior to D/Custody hearing---she would be Kidnapping your son---so she ain't going anywhere---and you need to tell her that

If you are gonna be miserable, and have a miserable mge---that is far worse than your son---living in 2 relatively happy split homes

You need to think hard on this matter, and decide what is really best for all of you---BASED, on how the future is gonna look, based on how this is handled

I understand that you probably need to have satisfaction for the public humiliation she subjected you to for a whole year----and I think that somehow, you at least need to extract---strict accountability from her, she needs to be taken out of her nice cushy lifestyle, she needs to sign a post--nup-----and SHE NEEDS TO HELP YOU DEAL WITH THE PAIN------do not let this get swept under the rug

It does not sound like you are gonna handle this very well---as you are hurting big time, and now know---you suffered humiliation, when she was wrong, and just piled disdain all over you

You gotta do what is right for you----this woman who claims to be your wife---is not a kind/loving/nice woman----she is an angry/controlling/mean spirited person, who would publicly humiliate you----THAT IS NOT LOVE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM---that is pure downright meanness.

As to being a good mother---who knows---cuz who or what she is, is certainly in question!!!!!!!!


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## BobSimmons

alone24 said:


> I've been in a relationship with my wife for 6 years, married 2+ years, and we have a 11 month old son. We're from different countries and now live together in my home country. We're both 27.
> 
> 8 months ago, my wife confessed out of the blue to cheating on me before we were married. She cheated 2 years into the relationship, immediately after we started dating long-distance, and about a month before we got engaged (we started dating LD to make it easier to eventually live together). At this time, we were very serious and were talking often about marriage.
> 
> She says she liked the OM, spent a lot of time with him for a month, kissed him on one occasion, and had sex with him on one occasion. She said she called it off after that and didn't see him again (hard to believe as as far as I know they lived in the same apartment complex and worked for the same large company).
> 
> When she cheated we were were living in different countries (and very different timezones) so I had no idea anything was going on. I visited her after 4 months apart and we got engaged. On that trip, she let me use her phone and I found an old text from a guy calling her 'hon'. I asked her who he was and she went absolutely insane, threated to break up with me for not trusting her, etc. And to show my remorse, she made me razor my hair. Because I felt so awful for (sort-of) accusing her I razored my hair at her insistance for 1 year. And anytime I complained (because I absolutely hated it), she would say 'Remember what you did?'. Now, it turns out she was cheating and I was punished for catching her.
> 
> She said she didn't confess at the time because she knew I would leave her (correct!). She said she told me now because she feels guilty about what she did.
> 
> However, she refuses to discuss what happened. She will not answer any of my questions, and has threatened to leave me and take our son to her home country if I act as if anything has changed between us.
> 
> But I am completely devestated by what she did - the cheating, the lying, my punishment, telling me after we had a child (thereby trapping me), and refusing to acknowledge my pain now.
> 
> I also have a feeling she is lying about the very little she did tell me. For example, says she used protection, but I know she secretly ordered a home HIV-test kit about 9 months after when she said she cheated (the test never got delivered though and she does not have HIV).
> 
> So I feel stuck/trapped. Cheating is a deal-breaker for me. I would have left her if I had known about this before we had our son. So, I want to D, but cannot because of my son, for a number of reasons:
> - I will not do anything that could jeopardise my ability to see him everyday
> - we are from different countries, so if we D one of us will only see our son very infrequently
> - *despite the cheating, my wife is a great, selfless mother*. My son needs her in his life everyday too.
> 
> So I don't know what to do. If I act as if nothing has changed things seem ok but I am (secretly) sad all the time. I thought it might get easier but it's been 8 months and it isn't.
> 
> What should I do? How can I get my wife to talk about what happened so I can get some closure and move on? And if she won't talk, how can I cope without the answers I need?
> 
> I have no one to talk to about this, so would really appreciate any suggestions.


Great and selfless unless she catches you looking at her phone and makes you shave off all your hair as a punishment, then likely goes and sleeps with OM again, trapping you in a marriage you would have most likely never committed to and even upon exposure still shows no remorse and threatens to leave the country with your son. 

She's a piece of work.

Good luck to you.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Will_Kane said:


> You can't go through your life being blackmailed by your wife. What next? She has complete control over you it seems.


In the US, if the gender was reversed, it would be grounds for divorce due to mental abuse.


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## aug

Get your son's passport and hide it. That way he wont be able to go anywhere out of country.


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## aug

Will_Kane said:


> I think this tells a lot about your relationship with her.
> 
> She insisted you razor your hair, something she KNEW you HATED for a WHOLE YEAR, and you did it, saying she would leave you if you didn't.
> 
> *At a minimum, I think you should insist she shave her head for a year, or else you will leave her. Since in my book her cheating is 10 times worse than what you did, you should insist she shave her head for 10 years.*
> 
> Honestly, what kind of vengeful person makes a demand like the one your then fiance made? When you were right all along? And kept it up for A WHOLE YEAR?
> 
> And how did you go along with something like that?


Well, I agree with this. She should shave her head now that she admitted to her cheating.

Dont be afraid. Fear paralyzes you and makes you do irrational things.


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## workindad

You actually shaved your head for a year? She does not sound like a great wife. 

Exactly when did you know that she ordered an HIV test? When you learned of this why did you think she needed to order it? 
I would definitely have a paternity test done. They are cheap painless and private. She does not need to participate in the process. You can think the child is yours or you can find out for certain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad&Hubby

alone24 said:


> I've been in a relationship with my wife for 6 years, married 2+ years, and we have a 11 month old son. We're from different countries and now live together in my home country. We're both 27.
> 
> 8 months ago, my wife confessed out of the blue to cheating on me before we were married. She cheated 2 years into the relationship, immediately after we started dating long-distance, and about a month before we got engaged (we started dating LD to make it easier to eventually live together). At this time, we were very serious and were talking often about marriage.
> 
> She says she liked the OM, spent a lot of time with him for a month, kissed him on one occasion, and had sex with him on one occasion. She said she called it off after that and didn't see him again (hard to believe as as far as I know they lived in the same apartment complex and worked for the same large company).
> 
> When she cheated we were were living in different countries (and very different timezones) so I had no idea anything was going on. I visited her after 4 months apart and we got engaged. On that trip, she let me use her phone and I found an old text from a guy calling her 'hon'. I asked her who he was and she went absolutely insane, threated to break up with me for not trusting her, etc. *And to show my remorse, she made me razor my hair. Because I felt so awful for (sort-of) accusing her I razored my hair at her insistance for 1 year. And anytime I complained (because I absolutely hated it), she would say 'Remember what you did?'. Now, it turns out she was cheating and I was punished for catching her. *


Okay, you need to stop right here and TRULY recognize what kind of woman this is. WOW!?!?! So she OUTRIGHT HUMILIATED you because you DARED question her. 

Now think about this. She was cheating on you. She KNEW she was cheating on you, and WHILE KNOWING she was betraying you, she also THEN CHOSE to HUMILIATE YOU! WOW dude. I wouldn't have been able to get past this when the truth came out. You want to talk about EXTREME betrayal. She ENJOYED humiliating you!!



alone24 said:


> She said she didn't confess at the time because she knew I would leave her (correct!).


Okay so WHY DID SHE HAVE YOU SHAVE YOUR HEAD FOR A YEAR? And MORE IMPORTANTLY.. WHY DID YOU SHAVE YOUR HEAD FOR A YEAR?!?! If I found a text on my wife's phone that wasn't "right" and I questioned her and she said to me "well I'm leaving or you have to shave your head!" MY response would be..."Don't let the door hit you on your a$$ on the way out, and thanks for showing me your BAT SH!T CRAZY self NOW instead of later"



> She said she told me now because she feels guilty about what she did.


Sorry if she had ANY guilt, she would've never done the head shaving thing. Something else is up here.



> However, she refuses to discuss what happened. She will not answer any of my questions, and has threatened to leave me and take our son to her home country if I act as if anything has changed between us.


I don't know what country you live in, but go find legal help. Your wife has some serious issues. She doesn't really like you (you don't torment someone you like). You need to protect yourself and your child. You need to file a motion to keep your child in your country. 



> But I am completely devestated by what she did - the cheating, the lying, my punishment, telling me after we had a child (thereby trapping me), and refusing to acknowledge my pain now.
> 
> I also have a feeling she is lying about the very little she did tell me. For example, says she used protection, but I know she secretly ordered a home HIV-test kit about 9 months after when she said she cheated (the test never got delivered though and she does not have HIV).


In other words for her other affair. Time line doesn't work



> So I feel stuck/trapped. Cheating is a deal-breaker for me. I would have left her if I had known about this before we had our son. So, I want to D, but cannot because of my son, for a number of reasons:
> - I will not do anything that could jeopardise my ability to see him everyday
> - we are from different countries, so if we D one of us will only see our son very infrequently
> - despite the cheating, my wife is a great, selfless mother. My son needs her in his life everyday too.


Well then you get to show your son how a man SHOULDN'T allow himself to be treated. You get to suffer in this hell your wife is putting you through and it's only going to get worse as her disdain for you increases. So great way to be an example to him. Just make sure you teach him to NOT be a man like you (sorry to be painfully blunt).

It's more important to see your son LESS but be a BETTER father. Quality ALWAYS trumps Quantity.



> So I don't know what to do. If I act as if nothing has changed things seem ok but I am (secretly) sad all the time. I thought it might get easier but it's been 8 months and it isn't.
> 
> What should I do? How can I get my wife to talk about what happened so I can get some closure and move on? And if she won't talk, how can I cope without the answers I need?
> 
> I have no one to talk to about this, so would really appreciate any suggestions.


First I would go get legal counsel secretly. I would file a motion to make sure she can't leave the country with your son.

Second, I would get paperwork to file a divorce. I would then go into the bathroom, drop trou and look at my testicles, as a reminder that YEP they're still there. I would SACK UP! Get my anger going, walk out and slap the divorce papers in front of your wife. I would then LAMBASTE her about her cheating, her second cheating (the HIV kit) her punishing you after she knew you caught her, and just how EVIL that was. (I'm still stunned). And tell her to get the EFF out of the house because you can't stand even looking at her. She's a worthless piece of crud who's cruel, two timing and frankly you don't think is a good example for your son. You DO NOT want her as a wife, she's not worth you, and you really don't want a woman who has such NASTY parts to her raising your son. A woman who can do such evil things has NO moral compass, so how can she be a mother?


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## Dad&Hubby

Will_Kane said:


> I think this tells a lot about your relationship with her.
> 
> She insisted you razor your hair, something she KNEW you HATED for a WHOLE YEAR, and you did it, saying she would leave you if you didn't.
> 
> *At a minimum, I think you should insist she shave her head for a year, or else you will leave her. Since in my book her cheating is 10 times worse than what you did, you should insist she shave her head for 10 years.*
> 
> Honestly, what kind of vengeful person makes a demand like the one your then fiance made? When you were right all along? And kept it up for A WHOLE YEAR?
> 
> And how did you go along with something like that?
> 
> And now this: _*"However, she refuses to discuss what happened. She will not answer any of my questions, and has threatened to leave me and take our son to her home country if I act as if anything has changed between us."*_
> 
> STILL UP TO HER SAME OLD TRICKS.
> 
> Yet still, you post this: *"She has matured a lot as a person since she cheated and will not do it again."*
> 
> Her threat to leave you and take your son if you "act as if anything has changed" between the two of you is just more of the same. She has not matured.
> 
> You can't go through your life being blackmailed by your wife. What next? She has complete control over you it seems.



I can't like this enough!

Or even better, wait till she's asleep and shave it for her. Just get one good "vrrrrm" down the center of her scalp before she wakes up....(yes I know this shouldn't be done, but damn I'd be tempted)


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## ironman

Sorry alone,

Normally, I recommend a softer approach on cheating that happened well before marriage and kids. But in your case, you wife doesn't sound like she has matured at all .. in fact, she sounds un-remorseful and rather malicious.

She definitely is 100% still in selfish-mode with her continued threats. She's damaged goods.


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## Shaggy

This story sounds very familiar. Did you already post it here a while ago?

Your wide is very manipulative and aggressive, and she behaves like that without guilt or remorse. Taking revenge upon you by making you shave your head for a year for asking a reasonable question is proof of that.

There is no way she suddenly felt guilt for cheating just once years ago before you we're engaged.

Also if she was feeling do guilty, she'd be answering all your questions to assuage her guilt.

There is something else going on , and that is why she told you. It's not guilt. Very likely she may have feared you bring told by someone who knew about it. In particular being told it was much more and longer than she's told you.

The fact that she uses extreme threats to make you back down and not ask questions is something that is totally not acceptable and you need to deal with that. 

SHE IS A BULLY.

You deal with bullies by standing up to them and calling their bluff.

One approach would be to talk to an attorney, or to get divorce forms and sit them calmly in front of her and say, she's got a choice. The full truth whenever you ask, or you both can begin filling in the D papers.


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## Shaggy

Think back to when she confessed. Before it was there anyone new either on FB or in real life that might have told you something? Or someone she was having conflict with?

I'm thinking of a former friend or family member who she was afraid you spill the beans to you. I'm also guessing it may have been prompted by her either having had new contact with the OM on a trip or FB.


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## Hicks

You lost the game of life when you agreed to shave your head.
She has you by the balls and she knows it.

You may as well have gotten " I am weak" tatooed on your head while you were at it.


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## Acabado

Get a lawyer and find exactly what your rights are. At least don't take at face value "what will happen" from your bully, arrogant, narcissistic, abusive, cheating wife.


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## ArmyofJuan

alone24 said:


> I have no concerns that she will cheat in the future. She has matured a lot as a person since she cheated and will not do it again.


You don't know this. You didn't think she'd cheat to first time did you?

I'd say call her bluff. If you are that confident about her then you should know she wouldn't actually leave you if you attempt to show consequences. If she knows she can control you then you are setting yourself up for failure and more cheating in the future.


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## crossbar

If I were you, I would talk to a lawyer. Ask him about getting an injunction about her leaving the country with your kid. Don't take that threat lightly.

So, she dropped a bombshell on you and if you start acting as if things changed between you two she's leaving the country and taking your kid away from you. Well, guess what! Things have changed. You discovered that your marriage was built upon a lie.
She's had a long time to heal from this and put it behind her. It's something that happened a long time ago for her and as far as she's concerned, it's history. She just told you about it, so this is brand new to you. It's like it happened yesterday for you. And you're not to react like it's no big deal? This chick is crazy. 

You have every RIGHT to be upset about this. You do have options. So, don't be afraid for the blackmail that she's trying to do to you. She has no right to do that to you.

So, talk to a lawyer and see what your options are. How do you think she would take it if she was given paperwork stating that she is not allowed to take your kid out of the country or else she'll be arrested for kidnapping and sent to prison. Then, you can say, " Now, I don't take threats well and if we're done playing BS games, why don't we talk like adults and find out where this relationship stands."


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## alte Dame

She really is a bully. But also a bit nuts.

And you actually do what she tells you to do.

I'm very sympathetic to you because, well, there's no reason not to be, but you have to have seen that you had trouble on your hands when she demanded that you shave your head. Or perhaps you didn't? Is love so blind?

You are in for a lifetime of problems with a controlling bully like your W. I don't believe that you have anywhere near the truth about her cheating and she will make it painful for you to demand the truth.

From what you've written, I see this as very difficult for you no matter what you do: You demand the truth and force that as much as you can & she makes your life miserable as a result, or you sweep it under the rug to keep peace for now and you are miserable as a result. Your choice.

No matter what, secure your baby's passport.


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## Shaggy

Is your wife from SE Asia? Her response seems very much like from that region.


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## lordmayhem

Shaggy said:


> Is your wife from SE Asia? Her response seems very much like from that region.


My wife is from SE Asia, and would never dream of something like that. IF that were to happen:

Her: Shave your head for accusing me of cheating.

Me: Yeah, right! GTFO! (As I'm throwing her sh!t on the lawn)


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## Tall Average Guy

alone24 said:


> 8 months ago, my wife confessed out of the blue to cheating on me before we were married. She cheated 2 years into the relationship, immediately after we started dating long-distance, and about a month before we got engaged (we started dating LD to make it easier to eventually live together). At this time, we were very serious and were talking often about marriage.


Why did she confess?



> When she cheated we were were living in different countries (and very different timezones) so I had no idea anything was going on. I visited her after 4 months apart and we got engaged. On that trip, she let me use her phone and I found an old text from a guy calling her 'hon'. I asked her who he was and she went absolutely insane, threated to break up with me for not trusting her, etc. And to show my remorse, she made me razor my hair. Because I felt so awful for (sort-of) accusing her I razored my hair at her insistance for 1 year. And anytime I complained (because I absolutely hated it), she would say 'Remember what you did?'. Now, it turns out she was cheating and I was punished for catching her.


How long was she with the other guy?



> She said she didn't confess at the time because she knew I would leave her (correct!). She said she told me now because she feels guilty about what she did.


Is that her real reason? Any reason to think there might be other things?



> However, she refuses to discuss what happened. She will not answer any of my questions, and has threatened to leave me and take our son to her home country if I act as if anything has changed between us.


Does not seem to remorseful. Will she answer questions about it? Has she even apologized?



> But I am completely devestated by what she did - the cheating, the lying, my punishment, telling me after we had a child (thereby trapping me), and refusing to acknowledge my pain now.


Does she know this?

You also mention in a later post that she has matured and would not cheat again. Why do you think this?


----------



## Acabado

Tall Average Guy said:


> You also mention in a later post that she has matured and would not cheat again. Why do you think this?


NOthing points out toward growing up. Nothing.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Acabado said:


> NOthing points out toward growing up. Nothing.


I have not seen anything, but I am curious why the OP has that belief.


----------



## Toffer

Talk to a lawyer and see what your options are and what you could expect regarding child custody

A woman who cheats on you AND punishes YOU for it is someone with some serious issues.

She took the opportunity to shame you twice. Once through her affair and then for a YEAR after it! The gall of this woman is unbelievable!

If you stay together, tell her that part of that will be that she should shave her head for a year! Want to bet what her answer will be?


----------



## crossbar

OH! YEAH!

Alte Dame brings up a good point. Get the baby's passport and get a safety deposit box at the bank and secure the passport OUTSIDE the home. 

Baby can't leave without a passport! If the wife asks you if you seen it. That would be a big NOPE!!!!


----------



## Shaggy

lordmayhem said:


> My wife is from SE Asia, and would never dream of something like that. IF that were to happen:
> 
> Her: Shave your head for accusing me of cheating.
> 
> Me: Yeah, right! GTFO! (As I'm throwing her sh!t on the lawn)


I'm not saying its common there, but I've known a whole lot if SE Asian women who are very very good at turning from sweet to she devil on a dime to keep their guy inline. My point as its a more used strategy there than elsewhere and the OP mentioned she had moved from another country.

Also cheating does have differing cultural responses around the world. So understanding what region of the world she did her cheating in, may help shape strategy for the OP.


----------



## SkyHigh

Manipulative. Self-absorbed. Amoral. Pathological liar. Remorseless. Abusive. Emotional Hostage Taker. Childish. Selfish. Narcissistic. Vindictive. Traitorous. Skank.

Those are just a few words I have for your "selfless mother" of a wife.

Funny, I see her as a "selfish mother", with some extra letters added onto the end of the word "mother".


----------



## azteca1986

alone24 said:


> I've been in a relationship with my wife for 6 years, married 2+ years, and we have a 11 month old son. We're from different countries and now live together in my home country. We're both 27.


Some countries, such those in the EU, will still require passport for a child that young. Unsurprisingly, the authorities take a dim view of foreign nationals trying to waltz out of the country with their citizens. 

Your wife won't be able to get a passport without a valid birth certificate, so secure ALL copies and/or translations.

At the very least find out what applies in your home country on the relevant government website. Know your rights.

Talk to a lawyer.


----------



## Laila8

Very sorry this happened.


----------



## alone24

Thank you all very much for all the responses - I really appreciate the advice. I am on vacation at the moment, so have little internet access, but will attempt to respond to all questions when I get the chance.


----------



## VFW

I know this is difficult and her lack of response is not good. Firstly, I would get control of your sons passport and secure it somewhere, so that you wife can't bolt with your son. Secondly, you need to get both of you in professional counselling. This can be fixed but it will take effort on both of your parts. If you try to sweep this under the rug, this will return to haunt you. 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -- George Santayana


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

alone24 said:


> I've been in a relationship with my wife for 6 years, married 2+ years, and we have a 11 month old son. We're from different countries and now live together in my home country. We're both 27.
> 
> 8 months ago, my wife confessed out of the blue to cheating on me before we were married. She cheated 2 years into the relationship, immediately after we started dating long-distance, and about a month before we got engaged (we started dating LD to make it easier to eventually live together). At this time, we were very serious and were talking often about marriage.
> 
> She says she liked the OM, spent a lot of time with him for a month, kissed him on one occasion, and had sex with him on one occasion. She said she called it off after that and didn't see him again (hard to believe as as far as I know they lived in the same apartment complex and worked for the same large company).
> 
> When she cheated we were were living in different countries (and very different timezones) so I had no idea anything was going on. I visited her after 4 months apart and we got engaged. On that trip, she let me use her phone and I found an old text from a guy calling her 'hon'. I asked her who he was and she went absolutely insane, threated to break up with me for not trusting her, etc. And to show my remorse, she made me razor my hair. Because I felt so awful for (sort-of) accusing her I razored my hair at her insistance for 1 year. And anytime I complained (because I absolutely hated it), she would say 'Remember what you did?'. Now, it turns out she was cheating and I was punished for catching her.
> 
> She said she didn't confess at the time because she knew I would leave her (correct!). She said she told me now because she feels guilty about what she did.
> 
> *If there’s NO real Guilt, there’s NO real Remorse. SIMPLE!*
> 
> However, she refuses to discuss what happened. She will not answer any of my questions, and has threatened to leave me and take our son to her home country if I act as if anything has changed between us.
> 
> *She’s self-centred and only thinks about herself, me, me, and me. So you are together for 6 years and married for 2. She cheated 3 years ago and ONLY feels guilty NOW. Oh please pull the other one.*
> 
> But I am completely devestated by what she did - the cheating, the lying, my punishment, telling me after we had a child (thereby trapping me), and refusing to acknowledge my pain now.
> 
> *She’s a control freak, and must be in charge of everything.*
> 
> I also have a feeling she is lying about the very little she did tell me. For example, says she used protection, but I know she secretly ordered a home HIV-test kit about 9 months after when she said she cheated (the test never got delivered though and she does not have HIV).
> 
> *She's thinking you and she really loves you! That's so sweet of her! (I think I'm going to throw up.)*
> 
> So I feel stuck/trapped. Cheating is a deal-breaker for me. I would have left her if I had known about this before we had our son. So, I want to D, but cannot because of my son, for a number of reasons:
> 
> - I will not do anything that could jeopardise my ability to see him everyday
> - we are from different countries, so if we D one of us will only see our son very infrequently
> - despite the cheating, my wife is a great, selfless mother. My son needs her in his life everyday too.
> 
> *Your wife is NOT great! She cheated on and dismisses any of your questions as nothing. She's thinking: "Get over it husband it was a long time ago".
> Your wife is a good mother, can’t argue that point.*
> 
> So I don't know what to do. If I act as if nothing has changed things seem ok but I am (secretly) sad all the time. I thought it might get easier but it's been 8 months and it isn't.
> 
> What should I do? How can I get my wife to talk about what happened so I can get some closure and move on? And if she won't talk, how can I cope without the answers I need?
> 
> *1. Show her the divorce papers unsigned and demand she tells you the truth about everything. Show her you mean business, and any time she refuses; take your pen out and in front of her sign the divorce papers.
> 
> 2. She MUST write down pen and paper her own words a truth time-line of her affair, from start to finish with ALL the details. The meetings, sex everything.
> 
> 3. Get yourself tested for all STD’s and DNA test as well to determine if the child really is yours. I don’t care if you believe in your heart of hearts that your child is yours! Because by your wife’s own actions she has cancelled out any of your feelings before your got married. *
> 
> I have no one to talk to about this, so would really appreciate any suggestions.


The moment your now wife cheated on you around 4 years ago, you were no longer an equal in this relationship, and she was in charge of its real direction. She knew full well, you would have left her if you had pushed her over the text message and exposed the affair. She ended the affair and married you and had a child with you. She feels guilty but shows NO remorse and she knows you will never leave her now that you have child together. 

She is the *ALPHA FEMALE* in your marriage/family and you are the *silent husband *(Doormat husband), why? Because she kind of confessed to you 8 months ago and you remained silent until now. 

You must also explore all the legal avenues with regard to taking custody of your child, even if it’s just a threat, do it. I know you said your wife is good mother, but’ she is a horrible wife. *It's time MAN-UP and be that HUSBAND she hasn't seen YET!* Once she sees YOU and the HUSBAND in the marriage *she'll start showing you the respect YOU deserve.*

*You came to TAM! Well done! By the way!* You just took the first steps in *NOT *being the silent husband (Doormat Husband). You will get sage advice and some time’s it’s going to hurt, but remember we are all on your side here. Listen, learn and take action to becoming an equal in your marriage. *Your wife must be taught that her actions have consequences and she MUST to all the work in repairing your marriage.*

regards, FTP


----------



## alone24

the guy said:


> Why did she cheat in the 1st place?
> 
> Has that even been addressed?


She told me she cheated because she was unsure of dating long-distance (mentioned once before we started LD, but not at the time of cheating), unsure of eventually moving to my home country (never mentioned), and unsure of me (never mentioned).


----------



## alone24

Before I continue responding to questions, I thought I should say a few things.

Firstly, I appreciate the viewpoint that my wife is not a good mother. I did not come on here to defend her in any way. I should have said that, day-to-day, she is very good at caring for our son. 

Secondly, I am a lawyer (which she was off f***ing the OM, I was getting a post-grad law degree), so I know my rights re custody and have put measures in place to ensure my son cannot leave my country without my permission.

Thirdly, my son is mine. The first thing I did when she told me about her cheating was to secretly get a paternity test done.

And we were both tested for STDs prior to trying to have a baby, and were both clean.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Secretly? You're scared to death of her aren't you? Afraid you'll have to shave your head again? Sorry son, you have an unremorseful cheater wife who rules you. Better get used to it.


----------



## AlphaHalf

Why don't you make her shave her head bald to make amends for what how she lied and betrayed you. And no that is not silly or unreasonable to ask as you've done this for her and you were RIGHT about her cheating.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Hi Alone,

I will gladly eat my own words, if my words have offended you. 

But let me point out your post#1, you came across a scared, broken and alone (hence you username I get it), now your sounding more confident in your post#43, FANTASTIC!

Summary from your post#43

1. Your wife is a Good mother (I trust you) 
2. You got tested for STD’s prior to having a baby and your both clean (Fantastic news)
3. You son is yours because the paternity test confirmed this (Fantastic news)
4. On the custody issue your wife has no idea whose she’s messing with (I like it)



> Your post#1
> “I asked her who he was and she went absolutely insane, threated to break up with me for not trusting her, etc. And to show my remorse, she made me razor my hair. Because I felt so awful for (sort-of) accusing her I razored my hair at her insistance for 1 year. And anytime I complained (because I absolutely hated it), she would say 'Remember what you did?'. Now, it turns out she was cheating and I was punished for catching her.”


*This paragraph is a MAJOR RED FLAG FOR ME. She humiliated YOU for a whole year because she cheated and punished YOU! And YOU DID NOTHING!*



> Your pos#1
> “However, she refuses to discuss what happened. She will not answer any of my questions, and has threatened to leave me and take our son to her home country if I act as if anything has changed between us.”


She can’t take your son out of the country because you’ve already made arrangements to prevent this. So after 8 months she still won’t answer any question, no truth-time line, no guilt, and no remorse. I will continue to push you to stand up for yourself. She is the ALPHA in your marriage and is walking all over YOU!

*I changed my mind; I won’t eat my own words, because I haven’t offended you! *​ 
Regards, FTP!


----------



## alone24

workindad said:


> Exactly when did you know that she ordered an HIV test? When you learned of this why did you think she needed to order it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I only found out about the HIV test after she confessed to cheating (found through snooping). She ordered it soon after we found out she needed to have a Medical examination as part of the visa application process to move to my country.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alone24

Shaggy said:


> This story sounds very familiar. Did you already post it here a while ago


Yes, I posted my story a couple of months ago and took it down. The way I wrote it made us too identifiable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alone24

Shaggy said:


> Think back to when she confessed. Before it was there anyone new either on FB or in real life that might have told you something? Or someone she was having conflict with?
> 
> 
> 
> No, there's no one who could have told me. I never met any of her friends from that time and she is no longer in contact with any of them. There was no trips, no new FB friends, no conflicts, nothing to prompt a confession. If she hadn't told me I would never have known.
> 
> She told me 3 months after our son was born. I think she had mild post natal depression and that is what prompted her to confess.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...


----------



## alone24

Shaggy said:


> Is your wife from SE Asia? Her response seems very much like from that region.


Yes, my wife is Japanese. I think her refusing to talk about what happened is at least partially related to her culture. Her being Japanese does not explain her lack of empathy or pure selfishness though. 

As for shaving my head - absolutely no cultural connection. She likes me with a shaved head (thinks it looks good), had always asked me to shave it, and took the opportunity to guilt me into doing it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostViking

That is just bizarre.


----------



## Shaggy

I think you should look at divorcing her, just because she is a bully. That's an emotionally abusive trait that has no place in a successful marriage.

If you don't file, then you need to be prepared to always stand up to her and never backdown because surrender only empowers bullies.


----------



## aug

alone24 said:


> Yes, my wife is Japanese. I think her refusing to talk about what happened is at least partially related to her culture. Her being Japanese does not explain her lack of empathy or pure selfishness though.
> 
> As for shaving my head - absolutely no cultural connection. She likes me with a shaved head (thinks it looks good), had always asked me to shave it, and *took the opportunity to guilt me into doing it.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



That's just not right. She knew she was guilty. She knew she cheated. Yet she was able to overcome any moral fail-safe she may had and turn on you.


----------



## alone24

aug said:


> That's just not right. She knew she was guilty. She knew she cheated. Yet she was able to overcome any moral fail-safe she may had and turn on you.


I can't believe it either. That's why I really thought I was wrong in accusing her - because who does that?


----------



## Omego

Alone24: you mentioned post partum depression, so perhaps she is psychologically fragile?. Is there any way you could convince her to get psychological help? Or could you do MC to address these issues, especially the weird head shaving event? It sounds a bit like she is delusional: maybe she really convinced herself at the time that you were guilty! You also point out that she refuses to address the cheating issue and does not want your behavior to change. 

I'm not sure she is really in control of herself. Her behavior comes across as aggressive, which indeed it is, but she seems to be suffering.

I hope you find a solution. Especially because of the baby.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## VFW

alone24 said:


> I can't believe it either. That's why I really thought I was wrong in accusing her - because who does that?


This is an easy one, somebody had to be to blame for this problem, she selected you and you accepted. The only other option was to accept blame herself and she sure wasn't going to do that. To be honest there is no magic pill, revelation that we can give you. The fact is she was selfish and wanted to do what she did and never expected to get caught. Still this can be fixed, IF she can accept responsibility and willing to work on the relationship. All successful relationships are built on the premise that the relationship is more important to us than our own desires. IF you can get her to professional counselling, where they can help her to understand this, then this marriage can be saved. Doing nothing is not a good option and most likely a long and winding road to divorce.


----------



## alone24

Omego said:


> Alone24: you mentioned post partum depression, so perhaps she is psychologically fragile?. Is there any way you could convince her to get psychological help? Or could you do MC to address these issues, especially the weird head shaving event? It sounds a bit like she is delusional: maybe she really convinced herself at the time that you were guilty! You also point out that she refuses to address the cheating issue and does not want your behavior to change.
> 
> I'm not sure she is really in control of herself. Her behavior comes across as aggressive, which indeed it is, but she seems to be suffering.
> 
> I hope you find a solution. Especially because of the baby.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Omega, thank you foe the thoughtful post. 

Fortunately for my wife though, she is not suffering at all. She possibly had post partum depression related to being home sick, but that was only for a few weeks and she is absolutely fine now. She actually says she's never been happier.

As for IC or MC, I think she/we need both. But she is 100% not interested. I have never bothered mentioning MC, because I told her I might need to talk to someone about what she did and she couldn't understand why I would need to.

She was not delusional when I accused her. She knew and knows she was guilty, and in fact the only positive in her (extremely brief) explanation of what happened and why is that she has never blamed me. She said I was the perfect boyfriend and didn't deserve to be cheated on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

She may not e so comfortable if you explain to her that not only have you lost trust in her for cheating, but for the way she chose to abuse you when you asked her about it.

That you view her actions as selfish , hateful, and manipulative and that you are considering the question of do you want to be married to her.


----------



## Shaggy

Post Partum, do you think someone who knew about her cheating contacted her to congratulate her about the baby, and they asked if the father was the OM? Or they asked if the father was the sane guy she cheated on?

She may have worried that her lies we're about to get revealed.


----------



## alone24

Shaggy said:


> Post Partum, do you think someone who knew about her cheating contacted her to congratulate her about the baby, and they asked if the father was the OM? Or they asked if the father was the sane guy she cheated on?
> 
> She may have worried that her lies we're about to get revealed.


Maybe, but I really don't think so. As far as I can tell, all of her friends at that time must have known, and never bothered to tell me when I met them when I visited her or when we got married. A group of them even advised her at the time not to tell me, so they all seem to be on her side on this one.

And no one else from that time even knew who I was to be able to contact me now.

I think she confessed out of some form of guilt, but thought I would 'take it better' as she put it. I guess she thought the fact it was a long time ago would mean it was no longer a big deal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

The bigger question is can you really ever trust her again? Do you want to have to check up on her the rest of the marriage. Just something to think about.


----------



## Shaggy

So are you going to do anything now that you do know what kind of person she is?

For me, a critical part of being married I'd knowing I can trust my wife to have my back. 

Her actions say she'll throw you under the bus to get what she wants.

Is the the kind of woman you want with you when older? The kind of person you want deciding to pull the plug or not when you are old and in the hospital?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein


----------



## Shaggy

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
> 
> Albert Einstein


Einstein was also a notions cheater btw. Well they called it a womanizer back in the day.


----------



## aug

Shaggy said:


> Einstein was also a notions cheater btw. Well they called it a womanizer back in the day.


Maybe he wasnt expecting a different result? He probably okay with being a cheater.


lol


----------



## LostViking

Shaggy said:


> Einstein was also a notions cheater btw. Well they called it a womanizer back in the day.


Einstein was also mildly autistic and a social misfit. His first wife was a brilliant scientist in her own right and she gave up her career to help him pursue his. Then he dumped her like a rock when the first pretty skirt offered herself to him. He's was the most brilliant man of his day and the most scummy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alone24

Tall Average Guy said:


> Why did she confess?
> 
> 
> 
> How long was she with the other guy?
> 
> 
> 
> Is that her real reason? Any reason to think there might be other things?
> 
> 
> 
> Does not seem to remorseful. Will she answer questions about it? Has she even apologized?
> 
> 
> 
> Does she know this?
> 
> You also mention in a later post that she has matured and would not cheat again. Why do you think this?


Tall Average Guy, thanks for you post. 

She said she hung out with the other guy for about 3 or 4 weeks, kissed him once and slept with him once. I don't believe her but have no way to independently verify her story. 

I agree, she doesn't seem remorseful. When she confessed, she was crying and shaking, etc. She said I should divorce her. I was in complete shock and said we could work through things, thinking we would actually work through things. But we haven't.

She has not answered any questions. She says asking for details like did she use protection is 'rude' (yeah, I know, crazy). She has honestly told me almost nothing, despite the fact I made it very clear to her I need details to heal. 

She said sorry many times, but only over the space of a week or so. She says all she can do is love me now and forever, and promise never to cheat again. She doesn't seem to realise that this is the absolute minimum required to 'move forward together', as she says she wants to do. 

She has matured a lot, but is far from mature. She doesn't go out partying anymore (has not since we got married), no longer drinks (has not had any alcohol since before we started trying for a baby), and does not dress like a teenager anymore. She also cares for our son very well. 

So they are all positive signs, but the main reason I think she won't cheat again is because, despite the way she is acting about her past cheating, she loves me now and would not risk losing me (yes, I'm sure everyone on here will call me naive). In fact, she is absolutel obsessed with me, and insists on raising our son as closely as possible to the way my parents raised me so he grows up to be like me. She is loving and affectionate, gives endless compliments, provides support for me when things are going badly at work, etc. I could not ask for a nicer wife (aside from everything to do with the cheating). 

She has changed a lot since we began dating, but refuses to look back and take responsibility for the damage her younger self inflicted on me and our relationship. She says she is ashamed of her behaviour and cannot stand to think she treated her best friend (me) like that. What she doesn't see is that not helping me now is just as bad as the cheating.


----------



## Jonesey

alone24 said:


> Maybe, but I really don't think so. As far as I can tell, all of her friends at that time must have known, and never bothered to tell me when I met them when I visited her or when we got married. A group of them even advised her at the time not to tell me, so they all seem to be on her side on this one.
> 
> And no one else from that time even knew who I was to be able to contact me now.
> 
> You wrote this in post number 49
> 
> *She told me 3 months after our son was born. I think she had mild post natal depression and that is what prompted her to confess.*
> 
> 
> *I think she confessed out of some form of guilt, but thought I would 'take it better' as she put it. I guess she thought the fact it was a long time ago would mean it was no longer a big deal.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No you´re most likely being wrong here.
The red part. Is the most likely reason she told you.
She has/was all was afraid you would find out somehow eventually.And waited until you got married and had a child.
Because the likely hood that a male BS would divorce ASAP
with a child involved is not very high.. It is way harder then.


S in other word´s. She feel´s safe you aren´t going any ware.Hence she has no worries,and act´s accordingly . Sorry for that.But you need to find a way to change that balance and dish out some consequences for her action and current behavior if you want to stand a chance to have healthy marriage.


----------



## tom67

Jonesey said:


> No you´re most likely being wrong here.
> The red part. Is the most likely reason she told you.
> She has/was all was afraid you would find out somehow eventually.And waited until you got married and had a child.
> Because the likely hood that a male BS would divorce ASAP
> with a child involved is not very high.. It is way harder then.
> 
> 
> S in other word´s. She feel´s safe you aren´t going any ware.Hence she has no worries,and act´s accordingly . Sorry for that.But you need to find a way to change that balance and dish out some consequences for her action and current behavior if you want to stand a chance to have healthy marriage.


Yep man up and show her you truly do have options. She will freak out but in a good way.


----------



## alone24

Jonesey, I agree she told me because she knew I was effectively trapped once we had a child. I will never forgive her for taking away my free choice and tricking me into marrying her.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

alone24 said:


> Jonesey, I agree she told me because she knew I was effectively trapped once we had a child. I will *never forgive her for taking away my free choice and tricking me into marrying her.*


Yeah well, what are ya gonna do? It's not like you can divorce her right?...:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:

She's seen no real consequences from you yet and it looks like she never will. So be prepared for the next time this happens because it will be a distinct possibility.

You probably won't even mention divorce the next time either. You'll probably have child(ren) headed to, or in college by then. Or a big fat mortgage on a new house.

How could you even mention a divorce if/when this happens, again?...

I'll bet if it does happen, again. You'll be wishing you would have mentioned a divorce this time...

Awww, but what am I thinking. She would never cheat on you again, right?..............


----------



## Jonesey

alone24 said:


> Jonesey, I agree she told me because she knew I was effectively trapped once we had a child. I will never forgive her for taking away my free choice and tricking me into marrying her.


Damn I was really hopping you would be the exception of the rule..

If you are positively going to stay and try to work thing´s out.

You need to start implementing some harsh consequences.


----------



## tulsy

Is hard to believe you would stay with someone who could be so cruel to you. For her to humiliate you like that? Trick you like that? 

This is extreme deception, IMO.

BTW, where do you live that your wife could just leave with your child? Go talk to a lawyer that can give you some real answers.


----------



## happyman64

Alone

Get your wife drunk one night. Shave off her hair.

When she wakes up angry, confused and feels you took advantage of her tell her this:

"Now you are beginning to understand how I feel by you cheating on me. Dropping your guilt on me and tying me to you via our son with no choice regarding your infidelity.

By shaving your head you have now faced your 1st consequence for your infidelity.

You will not be allowed to grow your hair back until you answer every one of my questions and this matter is resolved to my satisfaction."

I now this seems like a radical approach but all I ask is that you think about it.

She needs to feel consequences for her actions.

Good Luck

HM


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

Alone,
Okay she’s a great mother, but how can just she sweep away those events without dealing with them first. In order for her to move on, she must first deal with her actions then, and today, and answer every question you ask her. She needs to show true guilt and true remorse, and then take responsibility for her actions. Words turned into actions result in a positive change for the both of you, words without any actions result in what?


----------



## alone24

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Yeah well, what are ya gonna do? It's not like you can divorce her right?...:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:
> 
> She's seen no real consequences from you yet and it looks like she never will. So be prepared for the next time this happens because it will be a distinct possibility.
> 
> You probably won't even mention divorce the next time either. You'll probably have child(ren) headed to, or in college by then. Or a big fat mortgage on a new house.
> 
> How could you even mention a divorce if/when this happens, again?...
> 
> I'll bet if it does happen, again. You'll be wishing you would have mentioned a divorce this time...
> 
> Awww, but what am I thinking. She would never cheat on you again, right?..............


I have told her that if she so much as holds another guys hand I will divorce her immediately, even if I find out about it 15 years later.

I have never told her I am only staying because of my son. I told her I am staying because if was before marriage, so she knows if anything happens again I will be gone.


----------



## tulsy

alone24 said:


> I have told her that if she so much as holds another guys hand I will divorce her immediately, even if I find out about it 15 years later.


So she will keep stuff like that secret from now on. Underground mode initiated.

Also, she doesn't believe you will do anything. She already knows that there are no consequences for her actions. No remorse, no consequence, no heavy-lifting, lots of blaming shifting and calling you rude for asking for details....Rug-sweeping mode level 1, complete.

It's pretty much a scott-free win-win for her.


----------



## warlock07

> but the main reason I think she won't cheat again is because, despite the way she is acting about her past cheating, she loves me now and would not risk losing me (yes, I'm sure everyone on here will call me naive).


Yes, it is naive. Because she can keep loving you and still have an affair. From what you describe of her, she seems a bit weird. How she had an affair, how she trapped you into staying with her, how she is obsessed with you and raising the kid...You cannot assume rational and logic with someone like her.




> She has not answered any questions. She says asking for details like did she use protection is 'rude' (yeah, I know, crazy). She has honestly told me almost nothing, despite the fact I made it very clear to her I need details to heal.
> 
> She said sorry many times, but only over the space of a week or so. She says all she can do is love me now and forever, and promise never to cheat again. She doesn't seem to realise that this is the absolute minimum required to 'move forward together', as she says she wants to do.


Actually this is a direct result of your statement. 



> D is not an option because of my son, so I guess, by default, I want to reconcile.


----------



## warlock07

Actually, can you get in contact with this guy ? Or threaten her with contacting this guy to get the full truth ?


----------



## alone24

warlock07 said:


> Actually, can you get in contact with this guy ? Or threaten her with contacting this guy to get the full truth ?


I have been trying to find out who he is so I can contact him. But all I know is his first name and an old cell phone number that is no longer active. I also think he no longer lives in the country where the affair took place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wiserforit

alone24 said:


> Jonesey, I agree she told me because she knew I was effectively trapped once we had a child. I will never forgive her for taking away my free choice and tricking me into marrying her.


She's more malicious than that.

We can view this "confession" at a minimum as an act of extreme selfishness, where she did enough to ease her own conscience, but refuses to even consider your feelings.

It is maximally disrespectful, putting you beneath her despite the lies to the contrary. Remember how bold her lies were to your face back when you discovered the text message? This is the same person.

Now the lies are false flattery: How you are the greatest man since Genghis Khan. Saying you should leave her - oh yeah right! That's why she told you AFTER the son was born instead of before. Wow, how manipulative.

So if she had kept it a secret, you would not feel like such a fool for how she made you shave your head and kiss her behind back then. Had she answered your questions now with complete honesty then that would have shown some respect and contrition.

But this leaves you with her walking all over you - maximally beneficial to her and maximally disrespectful of you.


----------



## alone24

So what am I going to do? 

I have no idea. I know I should divorce her, and I want to divorce her. I do not think I can love, trust or respect someone who has treated and is treating me the way she has/is. Not without heavy-lifting on her part at least. 

But I cannot divorce because of my son. I will not let him suffer as a result of my poor judgment (in marrying and having a child with his mother). 

My parents divorced when I was a child and my brothers and I grew up perfectly fine, so I am not against divorce per se. But in our case, divorce will mean my son has to split time between two countries, and when he is with my wife I will not see him potentially for long periods of time. I will not do that to him. 

So, as I have said, I would like to work things out with my wife. 

But she doesn't seem to be interested in this. To her, my options are either get over it or divorce. I just wish she would think of our son and take the middle ground of discussing and working things out. 

I have tried to discuss her cheating with her about four times, and each time she has exploded with anger and threatened to take our son to Japan. She has even made me promise never to mention it again (I did not promise this). 

Obviously her response makes it impossible to talk things through. 

I want there to be consequences for her, but because of her crazy response to even (not) talking about it, I am unsure how to go about this.


----------



## alte Dame

If your son has passports, then secure them - lock them up somewhere your W can't reach them.

Then go see an attorney about the child custody issues.

Then tell your W that it isn't her way or the highway for you. Tell her that you want the details of her betrayal or you will sue for divorce and primary custody. International child custody treaties give you the law on your side right now.

If you can't live with her crazy control of this situation, then make a logical plan to break that control. See an attorney and map out what you have to do step by step.


----------



## alone24

alte Dame said:


> If your son has passports, then secure them - lock them up somewhere your W can't reach them.
> 
> Then go see an attorney about the child custody issues.
> 
> Then tell your W that it isn't her way or the highway for you. Tell her that you want the details of her betrayal or you will sue for divorce and primary custody. International child custody treaties give you the law on your side right now.
> 
> If you can't live with her crazy control of this situation, then make a logical plan to break that control. See an attorney and map out what you have to do step by step.


I am a lawyer and have put measures in place to ensure my son cannot leave the country without my consent.

My concern re trying to get her to talk is her apparent attitude that it would be better to blow up of little family than work through the issue she created. Her past actions have shown she is capable of anything and her attitude now says that if things get to difficult she will leave with no thought for our son.

Her crazy attitude puts me at a severe disadvantage because I will always put my son's happiness before my own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alte Dame

alone24 said:


> I am a lawyer and have put measures in place to ensure my son cannot leave the country without my consent.
> 
> My concern re trying to get her to talk is her apparent attitude that it would be better to blow up of little family than work through the issue she created. Her past actions have shown she is capable of anything and her attitude now says that if things get to difficult she will leave with no thought for our son.
> 
> Her crazy attitude puts me at a severe disadvantage because I will always put my son's happiness before my own.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So the ultimate issue isn't that you would have to split custody internationally, but that she would leave the two of you and that that would negatively affect your son? (I'm not sure how to read your statement that 'she will leave with no thought for our son.' You said above that you don't want your son to be shuttled between parents in different countries, but then that you are a lawyer and have safeguards in place. Is it a legal certainty that you couldn't have primary custody?)

She successfully bullies you and has you over a barrel, you seem to think. You don't really have any obvious good choices here. Either you face down the crazy bullying and risk that your son could have a broken home or you suck it up and let her call the shots.

It doesn't look good for your future if you don't face her down, in my opinion. You don't have the truth of what she has done & you certainly aren't dealing with true remorse. Her behavior has been dysfunctional and, in my opinion, alarming. You don't trust her and say you want to divorce her. Her personality doesn't sound particularly healthy for raising a child. I'm not sure how living with this is a net positive for your son.


----------



## Jonesey

alone24 said:


> So what am I going to do?
> 
> I have no idea. I know I should divorce her, and I want to divorce her. I do not think I can love, trust or respect someone who has treated and is treating me the way she has/is. Not without heavy-lifting on her part at least.
> 
> But I cannot divorce because of my son. I will not let him suffer as a result of my poor judgment (in marrying and having a child with his mother).
> 
> My parents divorced when I was a child and my brothers and I grew up perfectly fine, so I am not against divorce per se. *But in our case, divorce will mean my son has to split time between two countries, and*
> 
> Don´t worry about that.It cant happen with out your consent...
> Read up on this link,and you will be more informed.
> Armed with this info.You can easy let her keep bla bla bla
> yada yada talk....So please stop let her bullying you any more about that..All custody arrangements are settled in the country of where the child is borne..
> 
> Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> when he is with my wife I will not see him potentially for long periods of time. I will not do that to him.
> 
> So, as I have said, I would like to work things out with my wife.
> 
> But she doesn't seem to be interested in this. To her, my options are either get over it or divorce. I just wish she would think of our son and take the middle ground of discussing and working things out.
> 
> I have tried to discuss her cheating with her about four times, and each time she has exploded with anger and *threatened to take our son to Japan.* Pray that she does..People that does that.Almost always loose custody by default..
> 
> She has even made me promise never to mention it again (I did not promise this).
> 
> *Obviously her response makes it impossible to talk things through. *Again check the link
> 
> I want there to be consequences for her, but because of her crazy response to even (not) talking about it, I am unsure how to go about this.


----------



## alone24

alte Dame said:


> So the ultimate issue isn't that you would have to split custody internationally, but that she would leave the two of you and that that would negatively affect your son? (I'm not sure how to read your statement that 'she will leave with no thought for our son.' You said above that you don't want your son to be shuttled between parents in different countries, but then that you are a lawyer and have safeguards in place. Is it a legal certainty that you couldn't have primary custody?)
> 
> She successfully bullies you and has you over a barrel, you seem to think. You don't really have any obvious good choices here. Either you face down the crazy bullying and risk that your son could have a broken home or you suck it up and let her call the shots.
> 
> It doesn't look good for your future if you don't face her down, in my opinion. You don't have the truth of what she has done & you certainly aren't dealing with true remorse. Her behavior has been dysfunctional and, in my opinion, alarming. You don't trust her and say you want to divorce her. Her personality doesn't sound particularly healthy for raising a child. I'm not sure how living with this is a net positive for your son.


No, sorry, I wasn't clear in what I posted. The ultimate issue is split custody internationally. 

What I meant to say was that for according to her my choices are (a) act as if nothing happened or (b) divorce. And that if I do not act if nothing happened, she will divorce (and fight for primary custody) with no thought for the fact that D is not in the best interests of our son. 

To me, the best option for our son would be to work things through. She doesn't want to do this. It is either D or get over it. This is what puts me at a disadvantage in trying to demand answers - she is willing to break up our family and I am not.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

You need to take your wife over your knee.


----------



## warlock07

How likely is that she will get primary custody and take him to Japan ? Why don't you ask someone with relevant experience in international custody cases ?


----------



## aug

alone24 said:


> No, sorry, I wasn't clear in what I posted. The ultimate issue is split custody internationally.
> 
> *What I meant to say was that for according to her my choices are (a) act as if nothing happened or (b) divorce. And that if I do not act if nothing happened, she will divorce (and fight for primary custody) with no thought for the fact that D is not in the best interests of our son. *
> 
> To me, the best option for our son would be to work things through. She doesn't want to do this. It is either D or get over it. This is what puts me at a disadvantage in trying to demand answers - she is willing to break up our family and I am not.



She's still being a b...

What happens to her in Japan being a single mom? Can she survive on her own? Can she find another man?

You only have a few more years with your son (till he 10 or 11) when he becomes his own person.

Perhaps you should call her bluff and start the divorce. As you should have noticed, when you have nothing to lose (eg, her pretending not to be concerned about divorce), you have a better chance of winning.


----------



## alone24

Has anyone elses' WS confessed and then completely refused to even acknowledge the affair? And how did you get them to acknowledge it?

My wife seriously acts as if nothing happened. For example, just the other day she asked if I remembered some Thai restaurant we visited in Orlando. 'Um yep, we went there the day I caught you cheating and you made me razor my hair.'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bryanp

Great response.


----------



## Jonesey

alone24 said:


> *No, sorry, I wasn't clear in what I posted. The ultimate issue is split custody internationally. *
> 
> 
> Damit dude don´t you read people´s post to you???
> Considering you are a lawyer,the for f..k sake read this link
> i posted..Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The *Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction,* or *Hague Abduction Convention* is a multilateral treaty developed by the Hague Conference on Private International Law that provides an expeditious method to return a child internationally abducted by a parent from one member nation to another. Proceedings on the Convention concluded 25 October 1980 and the Convention entered into force between the signatory nations on 1 December 1983. The Convention was drafted to ensure the prompt return of children who have been abducted from their country of habitual residence or wrongfully retained in a contracting state not their country of habitual residence.[1]
> The primary intention of the Convention is to preserve whatever status quo child custody arrangement existed immediately before an alleged wrongful removal or retention thereby deterring a parent from crossing international boundaries in search of a more sympathetic court. The Convention applies only to children under the age of 16.
> As of May 2013, 89 States are party to the convention.[2] In 2012, the treaty entered in force in Guinea and Lesotho. The treaty entered into force for South Korea on 1 March 2013.
> 
> 
> *Procedural nature *
> 
> Family law Marriage and similar status
> 
> Marriage
> Types of marriages
> 
> 
> Prenuptial agreement
> Cohabitation
> 
> 
> Civil union
> Domestic partnership
> Dissolution of marriage
> 
> Divorce
> Annulment
> Alimony
> 
> 
> Void and Voidable marriage
> Separation
> 
> 
> Parenting plan
> Residence (ENG)
> 
> 
> Parental rights
> Parenting coordinator (USA)
> Parent legal
> 
> Paternity
> Legitimacy
> Child custody
> 
> 
> Legal guardian
> Adoption
> Child support
> 
> 
> Contact & Visitation
> Grandparent visitation
> Child legal
> 
> U.N. Rights of the Child
> Children's rights
> 
> 
> Emancipation
> Foster care
> Ward
> 
> 
> Parental child abduction
> Conflict of laws
> 
> Conflict of laws
> Divorce
> Marriage
> 
> 
> Nullity
> International child abduction
> 
> 
> *Hague Convention (child abduction)*
> Related areas
> 
> Family
> Adultery
> Paternity fraud
> Bigamy
> 
> 
> CAFCASS (ENG)
> CPS (USA)
> Child abuse
> 
> 
> Domestic violence
> Incest
> Child-selling
> 
> 
> v
> t
> e
> 
> The Convention does not provide any substantive rights. The Convention provides that the court in which a Hague Convention action is filed should not consider the merits of any underlying child custody dispute, but should determine only that country in which those issues should be heard. Return of the child is to the member nation rather than specifically to the left-behind parent.
> The Convention mandates return of any child who was a “habitual resident” in a contracting nation immediately before an action that constitutes a breach of custody or access rights.[3] The Convention provides that all Contracting States, as well as any judicial and administrative bodies of those Contracting States, “shall act expeditiously in all proceedings seeking the return of a children” and that those institutions shall use the most expeditious procedures available to the end that final decision be made within six weeks from the date of commencement of the proceedings.[4]
> *Wrongful removal or retention *
> 
> The Convention provides that the removal or retention of a child is “wrongful” whenever:
> "a. It is in breach of rights of custody attributed to a person, an institution or any other body, either jointly or alone, under the law of the State in which the child was habitually resident immediately before the removal or retention; and
> "b. at the time of removal or retention those rights were actually exercised, either jointly or alone, or would have been so exercised but for the removal or retention." These rights of custody may arise by operation of law or by reason of a judicial or administrative decision, or by reason of an agreement having legal effect under the law of the country of habitual residence.[5]
> "From the Convention's standpoint, the removal of a child by one of the joint holders without the consent of the other, is . . . wrongful, and this wrongfulness derives in this particular case, not from some action in breach of a particular law, but from the fact that such action has disregarded the rights of the other parent which are also protected by law, and has interfered with their normal exercise."[6]
> *Habitual residence *
> 
> The Convention mandates return of any child who was “habitually resident” in a contracting nation immediately before an action that constitutes a breach of custody or access rights. The Convention does not define the term “habitual residence,” but it is not intended to be a technical term. Instead, courts should broadly read the term in the context of the Convention’s purpose to discourage unilateral removal of a child from that place in which the child lived when removed or retained, which should generally be understood as the child’s “ordinary residence.” The child’s “habitual residence” is not determined after the incident alleged to constitute a wrongful removal or retention. A parent cannot unilaterally create a new habitual residence by wrongfully removing or sequestering a child. Because the determination of “habitual residence” is primarily a “fact based” determination and not one which is encumbered by legal technicalities, the court must look at those facts, the shared intentions of the parties, the history of the children’s location and the settled nature of the family prior to the facts giving rise to the request for return.[7]
> *Special rules of evidence *
> 
> The Convention provides special rules for admission and consideration of evidence independent of the evidentiary standards set by any member nation. Article 30 provides that the Application for Assistance, as well as any documents attached to that application or submitted to or by the Central Authority are admissible in any proceeding for a child's return.[8] The Convention also provides that no member nation can require legalization or other similar formality of the underlying documents in context of a Convention proceeding.[9] Furthermore, the court in which a Convention action is proceeding shall “take notice directly of the law of, and of judicial or administrative decisions, formally recognized or not in the State of habitual residence of the child, without recourse to the specific procedures for the proof of that law or for the recognition of foreign decisions which would otherwise be applicable" when determining whether there is a wrongful removal or retention under the Convention.[10]
> *Limited defenses to return *
> 
> The Convention limits the defenses against return of a wrongfully removed or retained child. To defend against the return of the child, the defendant must establish to the degree required by the applicable standard of proof (generally determined by the lex fori, i.e. the law of the state where the court is located):
> (a) that Petitioner was not “actually exercising custody rights at the time of the removal or retention” under Article 13; or
> (b) that Petitioner “had consented to or acquiesced in the removal or retention” under Article 13; or
> (c) that more than one year has passed from the time of wrongful removal or retention until the date of the commencement of judicial or administrative proceedings, under Article 12; or
> (d) that the child is old enough and has a sufficient degree of maturity to knowingly object to being returned to the Petitioner and that it is appropriate to heed that objection, under Article 13; or
> (e) that “there is grave risk that the child’s return would expose the child to physical or psychological harm or otherwise place the child in an intolerable situation,” under Article 13(b); or
> (f) that return of the child would subject the child to violation of basic human rights and fundamental freedoms, under Article 20.
> *Non-compliance *
> 
> 
> 2010 U.S. Report on Compliance with the Hague Abduction Convention[11]
> 
> 
> Noncompliance with the terms and spirit of the Hague Convention has been a particularly difficult problem in the practical implementation of the Convention. In 2009, the United States declared Brazil, Chile, Honduras, Greece and Mexico displayed "patterns of non-compliance" or "noncompliance".
> The case of Sean Goldman, a four year old boy abducted to Brazil, gained widespread media attention after the abducting mother died during the birth of another child. The mother's family, resident in Brazil, fought Sean's American father in Brazilian court to gain custody over Sean and keep him in the country. Ultimately, though, the Brazilian Supreme Federal Tribunal decided the case constituted child abduction under the terms of the Hague Convention, and had Sean sent back to America to live with his father.
> *Interpretation of article 13b: no return in case of "grave risks" *
> 
> The principal purpose of the Abduction Convention is to cause the prompt return of a child to his or her "habitual residence." In certain exceptional cases under Article 13b, the court's mandatory return obligation is changed to a discretionary obligation, specifically, "the judicial or administrative authority of the requested State is not bound to order the return of the child if the person, institution or other body which opposes its return establishes that there is a grave risk that his or her return would expose the child to physical or psychological harm or otherwise place the child in an intolerable situation." The duty to return a child is however not abrogated by a finding under Art. 13(b) but merely changes from mandatory to discretionary. Since the general intent of the Convention is to cause the return of a child to his or her "habitual residence," unless there are some powerful and compelling reasons otherwise the court should normally and routinely exercise its discretion and return the child to his or her "habitual residence".[_according to whom?_]
> In the primary source of interpretation for the Convention, the Explanatory Report, Professor E. Perez–Vera noted the following:
> "it would seem necessary to underline the fact that the three types of exception to the rule concerning the return of the child must be applied only so far as they go and no further. This implies above all that they are to be interpreted in a restrictive fashion if the Convention is not to become a dead letter. In fact, the Convention as a whole rests upon the unanimous rejection of this phenomenon of illegal child removals and upon the conviction that the best way to combat them at an international level is to refuse to grant them legal recognition. The practical application of this principle requires that the signatory States be convinced that they belong, despite their differences, to the same legal community within which the authorities of each State acknowledge that the authorities of one of them—those of the child's habitual residence—are in principle best placed to decide upon questions of custody and access. As a result, a systematic invocation of the said exceptions, substituting the forum chosen by the abductor for that of the child's residence, would lead to the collapse of the whole structure of the Convention by depriving it of the spirit of mutual confidence which is its inspiration."
> In spite of the spirit and intent of the Convention as conveyed by the Convention itself and further reinforced by the Perez–Vera report, Article 13b is frequently used by abductors as a vehicle to litigate the child's best interests or custody. Although Article 13(b) inquiries are not intended to deal with issues or factual questions appropriate for custody proceedings, many countries use article 13b to request psychological profiles, detailed evaluations of parental fitness, evidence concerning lifestyle and the nature and quality of relationships.[12]
> *This link below is to the Japan office
> *
> 
> *http://www.hcch.net/index_en.php?act=states.details&sid=47
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I meant to say was that for according to her my choices are (a) act as if nothing happened or (b) divorce. And that if I do not act if nothing happened, she will divorce (and fight for primary custody) with no thought for the fact that D is not in the best interests of our son.
> 
> To me, the best option for our son would be to work things through. She doesn't want to do this. It is either D or get over it. This is what puts me at a disadvantage in trying to demand answers - she is willing to break up our family and I am not.


----------



## crossbar

alone24 said:


> But she doesn't seem to be interested in this. To her, my options are either get over it or divorce. I just wish she would think of our son and take the middle ground of discussing and working things out.


 Wow, well....that should tell you how she really feels about you. She could either take you or leave you. Doesn't really matter to her. 
No remorse, doesn't take your feeling into consideration....nothing.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

alone24 said:


> Has anyone elses' WS confessed and then completely refused to even acknowledge the affair? And how did you get them to acknowledge it?
> 
> My wife seriously acts as if nothing happened. For example, just the other day she asked if I remembered some Thai restaurant we visited in Orlando. 'Um yep, we went there the day I caught you cheating and you made me razor my hair.'
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your wife changed the day she had the affair and as I've said before, you have to deal with this *FACT NOW*! Alone, you have *NOT* even *MANNED-UP* to her, have *YOU*! If there is *NO TRUE GUILT than there's NO TRUE REMORSE*, I'm going to keep saying this to *YOU* until you burn those words into your brain. *As a LAWYER you of ALL people in the REAL world, and on TAM should know that WORDS have ACTIONS associated with them*. 

You keep saying _*“But I cannot divorce because of my son.”*_ Good point, let’s examine that….

*(1)* So you’re going to live the rest of life with a woman that had an affair, made you the guilt party, humiliate you for a whole year by shaving /cutting your hair and belittle you at every opportunity throughout that year. You get married have child and she confesses to the affair and acts like it was nothing and basically tells you to “*Get Over It*” and now you’re asking what to do. – *Really?*

*Q.* Do want your *SON* to *GROW UP* and see the above *(1)*, every time you attempt to *STAND UP* to your wife, his mother for the rest of *HIS* life?

If the answer is *NO*; than *MAN-UP* and show her the divorce papers *OR* at least try to *MAN-UP* and assert yourself as a MAN, HUSBAND and FATHER in this marriage. 

If the answer is *YES*, than your son will watch his FATHER slowly turn into a doormat FATHER, because he’s already a doormat MAN and HUSBAND.

If my words angered you, that was the whole idea! Now take the anger you have for me and transfer it to your disloyal, cheating wife and MAN-UP! If my words failed to anger YOU, than “*MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU*”!!!!!!


----------



## Wiserforit

alone24 said:


> I have tried to discuss her cheating with her about four times, and each time she has exploded with anger and threatened to take our son to Japan.


You allowed this to work in the past. You are allowing it now. That is why she does it. 




> So what am I going to do?
> 
> I have no idea. I know I should divorce her, and I want to divorce her. I do not think I can love, trust or respect someone who has treated and is treating me the way she has/is. Not without heavy-lifting on her part at least.
> 
> But I cannot divorce because of my son. I will not let him suffer as a result of my poor judgment (in marrying and having a child with his mother).


You have this backwards. You choose to train your son to be like you: to make bad decisions and then make even worse decisions, justified by the bad decisions before.

You have given your wife the trump card by refusing to consider the risk of losing your marriage in order to save it. So from now on, just sit in your place and keep your mouth shut. She's the boss. 

And your son will see that all he has to do is explode at you, and manufacture emotional extortions to get his way. It won't be long before you are pushed around by a little boy too.


----------



## carmen ohio

alone24 said:


> *So what am I going to do? *
> 
> I have no idea. *I know I should divorce her, and I want to divorce her.* I do not think I can love, trust or respect someone who has treated and is treating me the way she has/is. Not without heavy-lifting on her part at least.
> 
> *But I cannot divorce because of my son. I will not let him suffer as a result of my poor judgment (in marrying and having a child with his mother). *
> 
> My parents divorced when I was a child and my brothers and I grew up perfectly fine, so I am not against divorce per se. But in our case, divorce will mean my son has to split time between two countries, and when he is with my wife I will not see him potentially for long periods of time. I will not do that to him.
> 
> *So, as I have said, I would like to work things out with my wife.
> 
> But she doesn't seem to be interested in this.* To her, my options are either get over it or divorce. I just wish she would think of our son and take the middle ground of discussing and working things out.
> 
> I have tried to discuss her cheating with her about four times, and each time she has exploded with anger and threatened to take our son to Japan. She has even made me promise never to mention it again (I did not promise this).
> 
> Obviously her response makes it impossible to talk things through.
> 
> I want there to be consequences for her, but because of her crazy response to even (not) talking about it, I am unsure how to go about this.


Alone24,

What exactly do you want the good people at TAM to tell you? You say that you want to divorce your cheating W but then that _you_ won't. You say that you want to "work things out" but then that _she_ won't. And in earlier posts, you say that you cannot simply get over this.

You present your self as helpless when, in fact, you are helpless only because you choose to be.

You are a trained lawyer and obviously highly intelligent. Use your knowledge and intelligence to devise a plan that enables you to divorce her with minimal disruption to your relationship with your son. Then present this to your W and give her the choice of divorce or coming clean and working to save her marriage. Or learn to live with your heartless, cheating W.

Only you can fix the mess that is your life. Fix it or learn to live with it. The choice is yours.


----------



## tulsy

carmen ohio said:


> Alone24,
> 
> What exactly do you want the good people at TAM to tell you? You say that you want to divorce your cheating W but then that _you_ won't. You say that you want to "work things out" but then that _she_ won't. And in earlier posts, you say that you cannot simply get over this.
> 
> You present your self as helpless when, in fact, you are helpless only because you choose to be.
> 
> You are a trained lawyer and obviously highly intelligent. Use your knowledge and intelligence to devise a plan that enables you to divorce her with minimal disruption to your relationship with your son. Then present this to your W and give her the choice of divorce or coming clean and working to save her marriage. Or learn to live with your heartless, cheating W.
> 
> Only you can fix the mess that is your life. Fix it or learn to live with it. The choice is yours.



:iagree:


----------



## alone24

Jonesey, thank you for the information on the Hague Convention. I already knew about the Convention but appreciate you bringing it to my attention. 

Unfortunately, Japan is not a signatory to the Convention, so it would not help me if my wife took my son to Japan. However, I have put measures in place to ensure he cannot be taken out of the country without my consent.

All of that said, my concern is not that my wife will abduct my son to Japan, but that if we divorce, I will live here and my wife will live in Japan. This will mean one of us will only see our son once or twice a year. 

And really, more than that, I’m not sure I am willing to blow our family up even if that ‘just’ results in us divorcing and both living in my country. As the BS, I am willing to work things through for our son. I would have thought she, the WS, would be willing to work things out for our son too, especially as her affair was four years ago.


----------



## alone24

warlock07 said:


> How likely is that she will get primary custody and take him to Japan ? Why don't you ask someone with relevant experience in international custody cases ?


Given the age of my son, the fact he is still breastfeeding and the fact my wife is primary carer (as a stay-at-home mum), it is highly likely she would be granted primary custody. It is unlikely she would be able to take him to Japan, but even if she cannot, I would not be able to see my son every day, which is something I cannot live with.


----------



## alone24

aug said:


> She's still being a b...
> 
> What happens to her in Japan being a single mom? Can she survive on her own? Can she find another man?
> 
> You only have a few more years with your son (till he 10 or 11) when he becomes his own person.
> 
> Perhaps you should call her bluff and start the divorce. As you should have noticed, when you have nothing to lose (eg, her pretending not to be concerned about divorce), you have a better chance of winning.


Being a single mother in Japan wouldn’t be easy, but she would have a lot of family support to (financial, caring duties, etc). As for finding another man; there is still stigma in being a single mother in Japan, so that could make things hard. However, she is only 27 and is absolutely stunning so I’m sure some fool would be willing to take her. 

That said though, she desperately wants (quite a few) more children, so leaving me now would make this difficult. She has actually started talking about trying for our second soon, so this is probably the fact that gives me the most leverage in getting her to address her affair (i.e. no more kids until we work through your affair). Of course, this isn’t bluffing – we will not be having any more children until I decide whether I want to continue in this relationship, and that will require her to be willing to discuss her affair.


----------



## alone24

Thank you all for the advice. I agree that I must confront my wife and insist that she deal with the consequences of her cheating. As I have said, before we had a child, the consequence would have been simple – she would have lost me. And another (much nicer) girl would have helped me heal. 

But, now we have a child to think about. So my wife is the one who must help me heal. And she should consider it a privilege that I am giving her the opportunity to make things right. 

Our relationship can be broken up neatly into three phases: 

1)	Dating in Japan (2 years)
2)	Long-distance dating (2+ years) (when she cheated)
3)	Married and living together (2 years) 

As a result of her cheating, the first 2 years of our relationship now mean nothing to me. They certainly meant nothing to her when she was with the OM. She was willing to throw them (and me) away, so, I want to wipe all traces of these years from our life. 

I also want to wipe all traces of the 2 years we dated long-distance from our life. She cheated during this time, and I will never fully believe anything she says about this time. We were not really a couple. They need to be wiped. 

This is not meant as a punishment for her. It is what I need to heal. These times hold no happy memories for me anymore. I never want to be reminded of these times, and will never know what she is thinking when she thinks of these times, so want them erased. 

On this basis, this is what I will demand: 

• Answers to all my questions (including his full name, the full story of their relationship, full details of the sex, how the relationship ended, etc). 
• Marriage counselling. 
• She be open to talking about her affair whenever I need. 
• A written apology from her, including reasons why she loves me, and why I should still love her. 
• A post-nuptial agreement, stipulating that if she cheats again we will divorce and she will lose custody of our son, any other children we have and will not receive anything. 
• Throw away our wedding rings (our wedding rings are rings we gave each other just before we started dating long-distance (ie just before she cheated)). 
• Throw away all gifts / letters, etc I gave her before she cheated and while we dated long-distance. 
• Throw away all things she bought or we bought together while we dated long-distance. 
• Throw away/delete all photos of her time while we dated long-distance. 
oNote: I have already thrown away/deleted all photos of us from before she cheated and while we dated long-distance (I don’t think she has realised this yet). 

Are there other things I should be demanding? Or is this too much? 

Also, as I have no way of verifying her story unless I talk to the OM (I assume he will tell the truth given the time that has passed), is it worth holding off confronting her until I can contact him? I have not been able to find out who he is, but still have a few (more expensive) options to exhaust in identifying him.


----------



## LostViking

I don't se anything wrong with this list. But she will. Japanese women are stubborn. I've known a few.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

What if she does not agree to your demands ? Nothing happens. So, why should she ?


----------



## alone24

warlock07 said:


> What if she does not agree to your demands ? Nothing happens. So, why should she ?


I will be threatening divorce if she doesn't agree. She will almost certainly threaten to leave when I bring this up but she has too much to lose by walking away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe

warlock07 said:


> What if she does not agree to your demands ? Nothing happens. So, why should she ?


Exactly. I don't think you've got the stones to back up the tough talk.


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

alone24 said:


> Thank you all for the advice. I agree that I must confront my wife and insist that she deal with the consequences of her cheating. As I have said, before we had a child, the consequence would have been simple – she would have lost me. And another (much nicer) girl would have helped me heal.
> 
> But, now we have a child to think about. So my wife is the one who must help me heal. And she should consider it a privilege that I am giving her the opportunity to make things right.
> 
> Also, as I have no way of verifying her story unless I talk to the OM (I assume he will tell the truth given the time that has passed), is it worth holding off confronting her until I can contact him? I have not been able to find out who he is, but still have a few (more expensive) options to exhaust in identifying him.


Well said!!!!



alone24 said:


> I will be threatening divorce if she doesn't agree. She will almost certainly threaten to leave when I bring this up but she has too much to lose by walking away.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Make sure you remind HER of these words if/when she refuses to accept your terms.


----------



## Suspecting

I don't think you can demand anything to do with child custody in a post nup. Shouldn't you know this as a lawyer? Even if you put something like that in it the judge/court will overrule it.


----------



## alone24

FlyingThePhoenix said:


> Well said!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Make sure you remind HER of these words if/when she refuses to accept your terms.


FTP, do you think I should wait til I identify and contact the OM before confronting my wife with my demands?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alone24

Suspecting said:


> I don't think you can demand anything to do with child custody in a post nup. Shouldn't you know this as a lawyer? Even if you put something like that in it the judge/court will overrule it.


That's right, but my intention is not to use the agreement as a means of ensuring I gain custody. My intention with the agreement is to gauge her level of commitment to reconciliation. She doesn't know it won't hold up in court, so if she is willing to sign such an agreement it will strongly show her commitment not to cheat again (ie so certain she will not cheat again that she's willing to put everything on the line). For example, I would never cheat and so would have no qualms signing such a document because I know it would never come into play. She needs to show me she feels the same.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

alone24 said:


> FTP, do you think I should wait til I identify and contact the OM before confronting my wife with my demands?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


1) If you have the means to contact the OM, then do so, but don't tell your wife a single THING!. Remember your wife has the upper hand here not you! She wants you to just move on.

2) If the OM contacts your wife by email/phone and she blows up on you, what does that tell you about your wife? Yep! she did have the means to contact the OM, so she lied again.

3) You keep saying you're a Lawyer, okay that's your job, but right now, you're a Man, Husband and now Father. Where's the Lawyer here. When you go to work you put on your Lawyer suit and change your mind set to that position, you need to do the same with your wife. Treat her like a client or the opposition and put your lawyer skills to work on her.

Once you have hard evidence, don't show her yet. Demand she meets your T&C's first and if/when she refuses show her your evidence you obtained from the OM. Bring her down to the same level as you, make eye contact with her and demand she tell you everything. If she STILL doesn't, Divorce HER!

You can still be a good Father to your son, minus your wife.


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## alone24

Hi all, sorry for not posting for so long, I've been snowed under at work and don't really have anything to report here anyway.

I've decided not to confront my wife with my demands until I contact the OM. Speaking to him is the only chance I have of learning the truth. I still don't know who he is because I've had no time to look into it with work and caring for my son, but hopefully I'll get the time soon.

On another note, our 6 year dating anniversary is next week. We used to celebrate it but the thought of celebrating anything about our relationship makes me feel sick. I'm not even going to mention the day to my wife. How she acts on the day will be a good indication of whether she's starting to understand the damage she has done to our relationship (ie if she wants to celebrate she still does not understand).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BashfulB

Take the day off and go fishing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

BashfulBull said:


> Take the day off and go fishing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or golf.:smthumbup:


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## workindad

OP, you've had close to a month. It will not get any easier to "look into it" if you keep up this pace. Take some action.


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## tulsy

alone24 said:


> That's right, but my intention is not to use the agreement as a means of ensuring I gain custody. My intention with the agreement is to gauge her level of commitment to reconciliation. She doesn't know it won't hold up in court, so if she is willing to sign such an agreement it will strongly show her commitment not to cheat again (ie so certain she will not cheat again that she's willing to put everything on the line). For example, I would never cheat and so would have no qualms signing such a document because I know it would never come into play. She needs to show me she feels the same.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


From the story you told, I don't think it would stop her anyways. The cruel manipulation you suffered would indicate she has absolutely no respect for you. This tactic is almost like trying to bribe her into staying married to you...what is the point? Even if she signs it you still won't be able to trust her, and your best case scenario is staying with someone who has no remorse for what she did to you.



alone24 said:


> Hi all, sorry for not posting for so long, I've been snowed under at work and don't really have anything to report here anyway.
> 
> I've decided not to confront my wife with my demands until I contact the OM. Speaking to him is the only chance I have of learning the truth. I still don't know who he is because I've had no time to look into it with work and caring for my son, but hopefully I'll get the time soon.
> 
> On another note, our 6 year dating anniversary is next week. We used to celebrate it but the thought of celebrating anything about our relationship makes me feel sick. I'm not even going to mention the day to my wife. How she acts on the day will be a good indication of whether she's starting to understand the damage she has done to our relationship (ie if she wants to celebrate she still does not understand).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You may never speak to the other man, and even if you did, you don't know the guy...you can't trust what he says either. If his story is different, you could confront your wife and she will say, "I'm not talking about it". You still get no where.

If celebrating anything about your relationship makes you sick, then why bother? You story is like a nightmare. How about for your anniversary you get her drunk and shave her head....see how she likes it? When she is seething mad at you tell her that you've been banging other chicks for the last 2 years too...just to see how she likes YOUR reality! Happy anniversary babe!

Do you think she will change into a better person one day? That doesn't happen, ever. 

So you are going to stick it out, regardless...that's what it seems like to me, and it seems like that to your wife....that certainly doesn't give her any incentive to change anything, since you put up with everything.

Man, I actually really feel bad for you. What your wife did is extremely twisted, and no one would do that to someone they love. I wish you could concentrate on moving on with your life, and getting away from this terrible person. You deserve a normal life.

Even if you don't get to see your son every day, you will at least get to see him with her out of the picture. I don't get to see my kids every day any more, but we actually have a stronger bond. Right now your child is just another pawn in chess, just like mine....their mothers try to hold them hostage from us, but they won't succeed, and kids are smart....they learn what's really happening. They love dad and they know dad loves them....you child will know that too. You won't be doing him any favors by not sticking up for yourself.

If the child is the only thing keeping you there, that's not a good enough reason to stay, IMO. As the child grows, are they going to grow up in a dysfunctional home with 2 parents who hate, loath, resent, and can't trust each other? How is that better for the kid?

Whatever you do, I wish you the best.


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## r0r0bin

So what is the news for today alone?


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## alone24

r0r0bin said:


> So what is the news for today alone?


No news. Yesterday was the anniversary of when we started dating. She didn't mention the day, though not because she realises the day is meaningless. She just either forgot or didn't realise the date.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alone24

A couple of weeks ago was one year post d-day. My wife didn't realise.

Things are still not going great for me. I'll try to give a longer update on my thoughts later this week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## missthelove2013

If it were me, the thread title would be "wife's cheating before marriage ENDED relationship"...

I would have gotten down on both knees and thanked whatever god it was that sent me this gift, that prevented me from marrying a lying cheater...and then I would have called off wedding and exposed the **** out of her...


----------



## Remains

Hi alone, you asked earlier in the thread if anyone else has experienced the cheating partner and then a refusal to discuss it? I think probably many here have...I have. Though nowhere near as bad as your experience. I will outline how my relationship is under this strain. I hope you will realise that nothing is worth this stress. It really isn't. And to have a future filled with it is really quite miserable. Don't do it. Don't allow her to manipulate you with her outrageous reactions to your completely understandable wishes to discuss.

My man cheated on me, and when I finally found out he discussed it for about a week or a month and then that was it. He shut down. He made me believe that I was crazy, there was something wrong with me for wanting to discuss it, to keep going over it. Every time I brought it up after that first week/month he went mad, got angry, and stomped off home (we didn't live together). It was a certain question I got to that caused him to shut down, and as I came to realise, it was because he was witholding truth from me. His reactions were purely to shut me up and to stop me finding out more truth. 

And I was going crazy....through his reactions and NOT my 'unreasonable' demands. We broke up over and over. It was his manipulation of me, making me believe that I was dealing with it all wrong, that brought me here. I read many articles and went to a few infidelity forum's before I found this one. I finally got sick of it and broke it off 'for good'. One month into our break up I finally got that extra bit of truth, which was the reasons for him shutting down on that particular question. It was another month before I ended up seeing him again. I still don't believe I have it all. 

He got a lot better but only because I kept dumping him over it. He has been dragged kicking and screaming into fixing this, discussing when I wish to, giving me what I need. But he still has weird reactions to certain things. Thus, I believe he is still lying and witholding truth. We are permanently on and off, always the same things that cause problems between us...and his reactions often off the wall, still gaslights me to make out like I am the one with the problem because I say his explanation makes no sense.

Our relationship is pointless. There is no trust, no honesty, no empathy from him to me regarding this. He is happy so long as I keep my issues with him to myself and not bother him with them. If I do he is often accusatory, though sometimes he will chat willingly. I don't see us going anywhere. I don't see us as having anything meaningful whatsoever. He is a great partner in every way except for this, hence the reasons I have taken so long to give up. Even so, how can there be love if he is lying and witholding truth, which I am positive he is. That's not love. We are off at the moment. I would like to keep it that way. I just can't be bothered anymore. Though I have said that before.

I hope you can find the strength to force your situation. You seem to be in limbo still. Limbo is hell. I believe your wife needs a wake up call. She knows she is on control. And she is abusing that. 

I wouldn't count on the fact that she is serious about leaving you. I think it is highly likely she is just manipulating you and has no intention of leaving you. If I were you I would call her out on this. If and when you do confront her again, and she goes wild threatening to leave, start packing her things up and open the door for her so she can. See her reaction. Be prepared to let her leave though. This will not work if you panic and take it all back. 

When I first opened the door for my man following the many times he threatened to leave and I asked or pleaded for him not to so we can sort this out, he didn't walk. He came down from his high horse. It was amusing. More than that, it returned some control back to me. That happened several times. When he tells me he is leaving, I say fine, go. Most times he stays. Because his intentions were pure manipulation and nothing more. All designed to shut me up.

I have discovered much about manipulation, and I DO NOT allow myself to be manipulated any longer as I am now aware when it is happening. He knows I don't believe him. And he knows we are on borrowed time, though he hopes for the best (he is a fool!) (but I am the bigger fool for still entertaining him 2+ years post DD. In my defence, he is perfect in every other way, I have never had someone so loving, helpful, funny. He has many many great qualities. And I fancy the pants off him!). I don't plan on continuing with him, regardless of his good qualities. It is not worth the stress and uncertainty. You cannot trust someone who is not honest with you. You cannot fully love without the trust. And without being able to fully love and trust, all else becomes insignificant.


----------



## Remains

Sorry for the huge post. I hope it is useful.


----------



## LongWalk

Japanese cultural norms are very different than US. She may have thought that her confession cleared everything up.

You lived in Japan for two years. Do you speak the language? What language do you communicate in?

Does she have friends?

What aspirations does she have? 

Is she rigid in every way?

Does she consider you a crazy foreigner?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## alone24

Remains said:


> Hi alone, you asked earlier in the thread if anyone else has experienced the cheating partner and then a refusal to discuss it? I think probably many here have...I have. Though nowhere near as bad as your experience. I will outline how my relationship is under this strain. I hope you will realise that nothing is worth this stress. It really isn't. And to have a future filled with it is really quite miserable. Don't do it. Don't allow her to manipulate you with her outrageous reactions to your completely understandable wishes to discuss.
> 
> My man cheated on me, and when I finally found out he discussed it for about a week or a month and then that was it. He shut down. He made me believe that I was crazy, there was something wrong with me for wanting to discuss it, to keep going over it. Every time I brought it up after that first week/month he went mad, got angry, and stomped off home (we didn't live together). It was a certain question I got to that caused him to shut down, and as I came to realise, it was because he was witholding truth from me. His reactions were purely to shut me up and to stop me finding out more truth.
> 
> And I was going crazy....through his reactions and NOT my 'unreasonable' demands. We broke up over and over. It was his manipulation of me, making me believe that I was dealing with it all wrong, that brought me here. I read many articles and went to a few infidelity forum's before I found this one. I finally got sick of it and broke it off 'for good'. One month into our break up I finally got that extra bit of truth, which was the reasons for him shutting down on that particular question. It was another month before I ended up seeing him again. I still don't believe I have it all.
> 
> He got a lot better but only because I kept dumping him over it. He has been dragged kicking and screaming into fixing this, discussing when I wish to, giving me what I need. But he still has weird reactions to certain things. Thus, I believe he is still lying and witholding truth. We are permanently on and off, always the same things that cause problems between us...and his reactions often off the wall, still gaslights me to make out like I am the one with the problem because I say his explanation makes no sense.
> 
> Our relationship is pointless. There is no trust, no honesty, no empathy from him to me regarding this. He is happy so long as I keep my issues with him to myself and not bother him with them. If I do he is often accusatory, though sometimes he will chat willingly. I don't see us going anywhere. I don't see us as having anything meaningful whatsoever. He is a great partner in every way except for this, hence the reasons I have taken so long to give up. Even so, how can there be love if he is lying and witholding truth, which I am positive he is. That's not love. We are off at the moment. I would like to keep it that way. I just can't be bothered anymore. Though I have said that before.
> 
> I hope you can find the strength to force your situation. You seem to be in limbo still. Limbo is hell. I believe your wife needs a wake up call. She knows she is on control. And she is abusing that.
> 
> I wouldn't count on the fact that she is serious about leaving you. I think it is highly likely she is just manipulating you and has no intention of leaving you. If I were you I would call her out on this. If and when you do confront her again, and she goes wild threatening to leave, start packing her things up and open the door for her so she can. See her reaction. Be prepared to let her leave though. This will not work if you panic and take it all back.
> 
> When I first opened the door for my man following the many times he threatened to leave and I asked or pleaded for him not to so we can sort this out, he didn't walk. He came down from his high horse. It was amusing. More than that, it returned some control back to me. That happened several times. When he tells me he is leaving, I say fine, go. Most times he stays. Because his intentions were pure manipulation and nothing more. All designed to shut me up.
> 
> I have discovered much about manipulation, and I DO NOT allow myself to be manipulated any longer as I am now aware when it is happening. He knows I don't believe him. And he knows we are on borrowed time, though he hopes for the best (he is a fool!) (but I am the bigger fool for still entertaining him 2+ years post DD. In my defence, he is perfect in every other way, I have never had someone so loving, helpful, funny. He has many many great qualities. And I fancy the pants off him!). I don't plan on continuing with him, regardless of his good qualities. It is not worth the stress and uncertainty. You cannot trust someone who is not honest with you. You cannot fully love without the trust. And without being able to fully love and trust, all else becomes insignificant.


Hi Remains, 

Thank you for your very thoughtful post. I am sorry to hear what you are going through. 

I know my wife is manipulating me. She has been manipulating me for most of our relationship. She knew I wouldn’t marry her if I knew she had cheated. She also knew I wouldn’t leave her once we had a child. So she waited until we had our son before she told me, despite having plenty of perfect opportunities to tell me about it (e.g when she called off our engagement, twice). 

Now she is manipulating me by threatening to leave and take my son if I so much as mention her affair.

Unfortunately though, this is not an empty threat - I am almost certain she will leave if I ask her to discuss her affair. 

Why? Because my wife is the most selfish and unreasonable people I have ever met. She does not compromise on anything and has no ability or willingness to communicate about ‘hard’ issues (i.e issues we disagree on or where she might look bad).

As long as I behave exactly as she wants, she is affectionate, encouraging, etc, to the point of being over the top. But the minute I do anything she dislikes or disagree with her, no matter how small, she explodes. If I try to discuss the issue, her response is usually along the lines of ‘If I say I don’t like it, just don’t do it’ and then refuses to listen to my point of view. 

I think most worryingly, she also has absolutely no ability reflect on her actions and how they affect others. She has never said sorry to me for anything (aside from saying sorry for cheating, once on d-day), and has never admitted to being in the wrong. She also talks about how bad other people are for doing almost exactly what she does to me, but doesn't seem to realise what she's saying could apply to her behaviour (e.g. lying about important things before marriage). It's like she doesn't realise how she acts.

So, when she says she will leave, based on her character and past behaviour, I believe her. 

And because I received legal advice that I will not win primary custody and may not be able to prevent her taking my son to Japan, I will remain in limbo, because I will not lose my son.


----------



## alone24

LongWalk said:


> Japanese cultural norms are very different than US. She may have thought that her confession cleared everything up.
> 
> You lived in Japan for two years. Do you speak the language? What language do you communicate in?
> 
> Does she have friends?
> 
> What aspirations does she have?
> 
> Is she rigid in every way?
> 
> Does she consider you a crazy foreigner?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


LongWalk, 

I don’t know whether she thought her simple ‘I had sex with some guy once’ confession would clear everything up (and yes, that is all she really told me). I think she never meant to confess, and just blurted it out when she was sleep deprived and slightly depressed post-baby, so never gave any thought to how much she would need to disclose. This is one of the reasons why, despite her confessing out of the blue, I do not believe her when she says it was only once. 

In any case, I made it abundantly clear to her that I need details and to discuss what happened. She flat out refused. 

To answer your questions: 

1) I speak a bit of Japanese, but my wife is fluent in English so that is what we mainly speak. 

2) She has lots of friends, both Japanese and western. She makes friends very easily. 

3) Her aspirations? She used to model and is a trained as a translator, but now she wants to focus on being a mother. She wants to stay at home at least until our son (and any further children) reach school age. Whatever she does, she wants to put our children first.

4) See my reply to Remains above. She is very bossy and uncompromising, in every way. 

5) She doesn’t think I’m a crazy foreigner. Her, her family and friends all think I'm great.


----------



## SoulStorm

alone24 said:


> Hi Remains,
> 
> Thank you for your very thoughtful post. I am sorry to hear what you are going through.
> 
> I know my wife is manipulating me. She has been manipulating me for most of our relationship. She knew I wouldn’t marry her if I knew she had cheated. She also knew I wouldn’t leave her once we had a child. So she waited until we had our son before she told me, despite having plenty of perfect opportunities to tell me about it (e.g when she called off our engagement, twice).
> 
> Now she is manipulating me by threatening to leave and take my son if I so much as mention her affair.
> 
> Unfortunately though, this is not an empty threat - I am almost certain she will leave if I ask her to discuss her affair.
> 
> Why? Because my wife is the most selfish and unreasonable people I have ever met. She does not compromise on anything and has no ability or willingness to communicate about ‘hard’ issues (i.e issues we disagree on or where she might look bad).
> 
> As long as I behave exactly as she wants, she is affectionate, encouraging, etc, to the point of being over the top. But the minute I do anything she dislikes or disagree with her, no matter how small, she explodes. If I try to discuss the issue, her response is usually along the lines of ‘If I say I don’t like it, just don’t do it’ and then refuses to listen to my point of view.
> 
> I think most worryingly, she also has absolutely no ability reflect on her actions and how they affect others. She has never said sorry to me for anything (aside from saying sorry for cheating, once on d-day), and has never admitted to being in the wrong. She also talks about how bad other people are for doing almost exactly what she does to me, but doesn't seem to realise what she's saying could apply to her behaviour (e.g. lying about important things before marriage). It's like she doesn't realise how she acts.
> 
> So, when she says she will leave, based on her character and past behaviour, I believe her.
> 
> And because I received legal advice that I will not win primary custody and may not be able to prevent her taking my son to Japan, I will remain in limbo, because I will not lose my son.


You do not realize the power you have over her. Only someone who fears losing you would go to such extremes. If she wants to leave if you want to discuss something..let her, but tell her you are going to file for divorce and she won't be able to leave the country with your child because you are filing for joint custody...you don't have to go through with the divorce, but you still can file. She is blackmailing you..use her tactics against her. You cannot rationalize with an irrational person..you have to take serious action to stymie their modus operandi


----------



## manfromlamancha

Alone, this is coming from someone who not only worked many years for a large Japanese company (spending many years in Japan and making many Japanese friends) but also who has relatives married to Japanese women etc. What I am about to say may or may not offer help/clarity but here it is: Japanese men and women view sex differently to Europeans and Westerners. That's for starters. Especially before actually being married. It is not seen as much of a big deal. While your wife may have known it was a big deal for you and hence the secrecy and silence in her mind it was not that big a deal. I have friends who have competed for the same woman right until the marriage when she finally settled down with one of them (I found this absurd but it was acceptable to them). It may be that she did what she did because it wasn't a big deal to her (no excuse I know). Also having done this, and for the same reasons above, I would imagine that she did not see the reason to tell you and everything that you have said about her being calculating etc would definitely apply. Now that she has told you, what is kicking in is a certain Japanese arrogance that I had to come to terms with when I was there which somehow combines "enough besmirching my honour" with "get over it" with "I'm with you, aren't I?" with "what's the big deal" with "I am just as happy raising this kid in Japan if you make things tough for me". So from where I sit, I can kind of understand her behaviour, unacceptable as it may be. One of the other things that I paid close attention to was the absence of love in so many marriages there (there was respect but not love really). That is not to say that Japanese women do not fall in love - they do and for all kinds of reasons and traits in a man. It just appears that this is not necessarily why they marry ? I don't really know what your situation is. In the case of my relative, his Japanese wife (then girlfriend) respected his superior intellect (he is a real brainbox) and fell in love with him for that. He mastered Japanese in less than 3 months etc. I know that parts of this post may sound racist but it is simply based on my observations and don't really know if it helps you but I thought I would offer it anyway. Please forgive me if it offends.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Just to add, divorcing her and her returning to Japan would not be great for her. There would be many to say "we told you so" with respect to marrying "foreigners". Also I am sure she had reasons for wanting to be with you and those will be shot down (whatever they were, love, admiration ...). I agree with the others that you do need to display the backbone and honour that the 180 promotes and others are suggesting as this is the only thing that she will respect. Also, as they are all saying you need to be able to lose her to win her. I am just surprised that your government is not willing to help you secure your son.


----------



## workindad

alone24 said:


> Now she is manipulating me by threatening to leave and take my son if I so much as mention her affair.
> 
> Unfortunately though, this is not an empty threat - I am almost certain she will leave if I ask her to discuss her affair.
> 
> Why? Because my wife is the most selfish and unreasonable people I have ever met. She does not compromise on anything and has no ability or willingness to communicate about ‘hard’ issues (i.e issues we disagree on or where she might look bad).
> 
> As long as I behave exactly as she wants, she is affectionate, encouraging, etc, to the point of being over the top. But the minute I do anything she dislikes or disagree with her, no matter how small, she explodes. If I try to discuss the issue, her response is usually along the lines of ‘If I say I don’t like it, just don’t do it’ and then refuses to listen to my point of view.
> 
> I think most worryingly, she also has absolutely no ability reflect on her actions and how they affect others. She has never said sorry to me for anything (aside from saying sorry for cheating, once on d-day), and has never admitted to being in the wrong. She also talks about how bad other people are for doing almost exactly what she does to me, but doesn't seem to realise what she's saying could apply to her behaviour (e.g. lying about important things before marriage). It's like she doesn't realise how she acts.
> 
> So, when she says she will leave, based on her character and past behaviour, I believe her.



So, your wife is obviously the dominant personality in your relationship and you are submissive to her whims. It is her way or the highway.

Is this really how you want to spend your life? 

I apologize for not reading the entire thread again. Did you get a paternity test done? If not, do one. They are cheap, easy, painless, and private. She does not even need to know or participate.

Think long and hard about the life you are mapping out with her. You are letting her control you through her ultimatums. Does that sound like the healthy love based relationship that you want? Is it the example of how a person should live that you want to set for your child?

I'm not telling you to D. However, I would suggest that you, at the very least, consider standing up for yourself.


----------



## JCD

alte Dame said:


> She really is a bully. But also a bit nuts.


Yes...and she is probably also scared and desperate.

She isn't from your country and she knows she is in deep kim chee from a moral standpoint...so she goes aggressive to see if you fold.

And you do...just like a shirt in a Chinese laundry.

Think hard on that tendency.


----------



## JCD

alone24 said:


> Yes, my wife is Japanese.


Huh. She is bluffing then. She is VERY unlikely to bring a half breed son to a place where he will meet a whole lot of problems with being half Japanese. Sorry...this stuff still happens there all the time, overtly and covertly.

So...let's play a game of "Cultural Expectations". She has dishonored herself. Tell her it is HER issue to wipe out that dishonor...which doesn't involve killing herself.

She made you pay. SHE needs to pay.

Then shut up about the matter. Let her culture do the work for you.


----------



## BrockLanders

JCD said:


> Huh. She is bluffing then. She is VERY unlikely to bring a half breed son to a place where he will meet a whole lot of problems with being half Japanese. Sorry...this stuff still happens there all the time, overtly and covertly.
> 
> So...let's play a game of "Cultural Expectations". She has dishonored herself. Tell her it is HER issue to wipe out that dishonor...which doesn't involve killing herself.
> 
> She made you pay. SHE needs to pay.
> 
> Then shut up about the matter. Let her culture do the work for you.


She sounds selfish and narcissistic enough to disregard this entirely and when it did happen, assign blame to the OP.


----------



## larry.gray

You're in the States, right? The ball is in your court. She can't take your son out of the country without your permission.


----------



## manticore

alone24 said:


> HShe has been manipulating me for most of our relationship. She knew I wouldn’t marry her if I knew she had cheated. She also knew I wouldn’t leave her once we had a child. So she waited until we had our son before she told me, despite having plenty of perfect opportunities to tell me about it (e.g when she called off our engagement, twice).
> 
> Now she is manipulating me by threatening to leave and take my son if I so much as mention her affair.
> 
> *Why? Because my wife is the most selfish and unreasonable people I have ever met*. She does not compromise on anything and has no ability or willingness to communicate about ‘hard’ issues (i.e issues we disagree on or where she might look bad).
> 
> As long as I behave exactly as she wants, she is affectionate, encouraging, etc, to the point of being over the top. But the minute I do anything she dislikes or disagree with her, no matter how small, she explodes. If I try to discuss the issue, her response is usually along the lines of ‘If I say I don’t like it, just don’t do it’ and then refuses to listen to my point of view.
> 
> *I think most worryingly, she also has absolutely no ability reflect on her actions and how they affect others. She has never said sorry to me for anything* (aside from saying sorry for cheating, once on d-day), and has never admitted to being in the wrong. She also talks about how bad other people are for doing almost exactly what she does to me, but doesn't seem to realise what she's saying could apply to her behaviour (e.g. lying about important things before marriage). It's like she doesn't realise how she acts.


Man I am so so so sorry for you, I will normally advise someone in your case to divorce, I menathink about it, you are in the so called honey moon period (this las at least 3 years after marriage) where all should be exiceting, new and glamorous becuase you are beggining a new life together, and in this period you already have this problems.

Not just that, but the fact that your wife is totally unremorseful and she don't even want to help you to heal of the horrible pain that the betrayal of an affair cause to the betrayed spouse is horrible.

I will normally adivse anyone in your situation to divorce, but in you case for kid cir****aneces i don't know what to tell you.

BTW she is probably prone to betray you again, all the stories of people who have had affairs and had no consequences or have not going through a real reconcilation process end repeating the same mistake (you can look many cases like that here in the forum).

But i will have to make you accountable of your mistakes, why did you married a woman like this, obviously her behaviour not just popped out after marriage you kne how she was and you still decided to marry her.

my god, myabe in your case a Revenge Affair (even if is never recomended) will be the only solution to make her understabnnd the pain you are going through, and believe me I know that with this comment I am making enemy of everyone in the forum, but is that or divorce, any other way is an entirely life of subjugation


----------



## alone24

After almost 2 years of trying to identify the OM, I think I may have finally found out who he is/what he looks like. From what I can tell, he was and still is a party boy, a player, a loser - the complete.opposite of me. I can't believe my wife chose him over me, even for a night, and when I finally divorce her (not any time soon but once my son is grown) I can't wait to ask her if he was worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33

Why wait 18 years? Ask her now.


----------



## alone24

My wife refuses to discuss, or even acknowledge, her affair. She has made it very clear that she will divorce me if I even mention what she did. It would make me the happiest man in the world to never see her again, but I have been advised that if we divorce, I will only see my son for a few hours each weekend (no overnight stays), and there is a high chance she would be allowed to relocate him to Japan (her home country).

I will not lose my son, so I am staying. It's not easy, but I don't feel I have any other choice at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

alone24 said:


> My wife refuses to discuss, or even acknowledge, her affair. She has made it very clear that she will divorce me if I even mention what she did. It would make me the happiest man in the world to never see her again, but I have been advised that if we divorce, I will only see my son for a few hours each weekend (no overnight stays), and there is a high chance she would be allowed to relocate him to Japan (her home country).
> 
> I will not lose my son, so I am staying. It's not easy, but I don't feel I have any other choice at this point.


"Lose" your son's passport and divorce your wife.


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## richie33

See a lawyer and find what a fathers rights are. If you are in the US, she can not just take your son legally. 
You know your son will grow up in a household that mommy and daddy do not love each other. Once he figures it out, he will you know, he will carry that into his future relationships. 
Look into a separation then.


----------



## old red

new here. no advice, but know that i feel very sorry for you, and hope that a solution presents itself to you soon.


----------



## aug

Prepare yourself now. Play the long game.

First, check out dadsdivorce.

Next, start squirreling away monies and assets so that you are protected if you divorce.

And, no joint loans, debts, etc.

You realize, or should realize, that if you stay for the next 15+ years, you're going to be hit with major spousal support if by then she's not working/sick/cripple/etc. And by then, like frog in boiling water, you'll be so acclimatized to the situation, that you may never leave.

Are you still having sex with her? If so, she may get pregnant again. Are then going to wait till that child is 18? You'll not leave her till she's 60+?

If no sex, that's a tough monastic life for you. What does your wife think about that? Is she going back to her playboy ex-lover for tune-up once in a while?


----------



## Dyokemm

Alone24,

Your situation sucks...but unfortunately you are the only one who can force changes and will not do so out of fear.

My maternal grandfather did what you are doing...stayed for his child (my mom)...even raised POSOM's A child....and had 50 + years of misery and unhappiness.

I certainly hope you have informed your W that you never intend to have another child with her.

She has essentially trapped you into a M with her deception...she refuses to help you cope with the situation you find yourself in by addressing and working through her A.

She uses your fear against you to stay, and expects you to just sweep it under the rug and be a good husband to her.

At the very least, you should tell her you will never have another child with her...that is her price to pay for trapping you in an unhappy M and then refusing to help you repair it.

She may see fixing the M in a different light if she realizes she will pay a price here too...she will lose the ability to have the future children she wants.

Maybe, with her selfishness, she has to see and understand the price she will pay for what she is allowing to continue....she might not care much about your needs/wants, but I doubt she will ignore her own.

Tell her....no more children EVER if your M stays broken.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

I forgot what country you are living in(was your Son born there, or in Japan?), but it doesn't seem right that she would be able to take your son to Japan without your signature on some document.

You are the one that's keeping this wreck of a marriage alive. She only has a say because you allow her to. Find out if she can really/legally take him to Japan.

And stop being such a doormat.


----------



## azteca1986

alone24 said:


> My wife refuses to discuss, or even acknowledge, her affair.* She has made it very clear that she will divorce me if I even mention what she did. It would make me the happiest man in the world to never see her again*, but I have been advised that if we divorce, I will only see my son for a few hours each weekend (no overnight stays), and there is a high chance she would be allowed to relocate him to Japan (her home country).
> 
> I will not lose my son, so I am staying. It's not easy, but I don't feel I have any other choice at this point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What a life you've chosen for yourself. 

Is your son is dual national? My wife, who is currently back in her home country for the summer holidays still needs my written permission to move him (even back to the UK) across borders.


----------



## AlphaHalf

> I can't believe my wife chose him over me, even for a night, and when I finally divorce her (not any time soon but once my son is grown) *I can't wait to ask her if he was worth it.*


Yeah it would be worth it for her. a free ride for 18 years blackmailing you into being the breadwinner while she has no consequences or accountability for her actions. Bossy women tend to marry men who they can easily control. I guess she choose right.

By the time your son is grown your going to find another excuse to rugsweep. ex. I'm to old to find a new partner, I learned to deal with it, If I divorce now she'll get my....... so on and so on


----------



## Q tip

This has got to be the most perfect thread I have ever read in TOTALY justifying someone reading MMSLP, putting into action and moving into a successful life.

Oh wow

Oh wow.

Life needs testosterone and testicles... Without them, you have this.

Either that or your are perfectly matched for her non-stop abuse. BTW, her behavior is in no way normal or acceptable in Japan. How about with you...?

Wow...


----------



## alone24

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I forgot what country you are living in(was your Son born there, or in Japan?), but it doesn't seem right that she would be able to take your son to Japan without your signature on some document.
> 
> You are the one that's keeping this wreck of a marriage alive. She only has a say because you allow her to. Find out if she can really/legally take him to Japan.
> 
> And stop being such a doormat.


I am in Australia. My son was born here but is a dual citizen.

I have received advice from a family lawyer, and am a lawyer myself and have gone through cases and precedents to ascertain my rights in the event of a divorce. I was advised that if I D I will not win custody of my son. Further, during the dispute, I can prevent my wife taking my son to Japan, but once she wins custody she can apply to the court to relocate my son to Japan, and if the court grants her permission, there is nothing I can do about it. There is a high chance this permission will be granted, so I cannot D.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort

alone24 said:


> I am in Australia. My son was born here but is a dual citizen.
> 
> I have received advice from a family lawyer, and am a lawyer myself and have gone through cases and precedents to ascertain my rights in the event of a divorce. I was advised that if I D I will not win custody of my son. Further, during the dispute, I can prevent my wife taking my son to Japan, but once she wins custody she can apply to the court to relocate my son to Japan, and if the court grants her permission, there is nothing I can do about it. There is a high chance this permission will be granted, so I cannot D.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Also, even if she's not granted permission to move him to Japan she can just go and not come back. Japan heavily favors mothers so there would be next to nothing you could do about it. I'm sorry.

Don't get her pregnant again and prolong your misery.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThePheonix

alone24 said:


> She has made it very clear that she will divorce me if I even mention what she did.


In a way I understand why you should simply shut up about it. What the hell are you going to do? Besides, I've got news for you my man. If you don't have some legal barrier to keep her from absconding with the kid, what's going to keep her for divorcing you and taking the kid back to Japan anyway.


----------



## alone24

Q tip said:


> This has got to be the most perfect thread I have ever read in TOTALY justifying someone reading MMSLP, putting into action and moving into a successful life.
> 
> Oh wow
> 
> Oh wow.
> 
> Life needs testosterone and testicles... Without them, you have this.
> 
> Either that or your are perfectly matched for her non-stop abuse. BTW, her behavior is in no way normal or acceptable in Japan. How about with you...?
> 
> Wow...


I am not scared of my wife. I am scared about what the legal system will allow her to do. And I'm scared of someone with no morals, empathy or compassion raising my son without me to keep her in check.

My situation has nothing to do with a lack of testosterone or testicles, and has everything to do with a legal system that will take my son from me. Some mothers and fathers may accept not seeing their children everyday to get out of an unhealthy relationship and I respect that choice, but in my situation, the certainty of losing my son combined with my wife's poor character for raising a child, means I cannot go down that route.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

alone24 said:


> I am in Australia. My son was born here but is a dual citizen.
> 
> I have received advice from a family lawyer, and am a lawyer myself and have gone through cases and precedents to ascertain my rights in the event of a divorce. I was advised that if I D I will not win custody of my son. Further, during the dispute, I can prevent my wife taking my son to Japan, but once she wins custody she can apply to the court to relocate my son to Japan, and if the court grants her permission, there is nothing I can do about it. There is a high chance this permission will be granted, so I cannot D.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you a Solicitor or a Barrister? 

If the former, it might be worth -you may already have done this- checking with the top family law Barrister in your State's Bar Association listings.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

I'm sorry to here that.

I would have a very hard time sticking it out like you have and will possibly have to continue to.

You are a stronger man than I my friend.

I'm guessing that a prenup stating that if she was to cheat again, you have the final say as to if she can take your Son to Japan is not doable, huh?


----------



## treyvion

alone24 said:


> After almost 2 years of trying to identify the OM, I think I may have finally found out who he is/what he looks like. From what I can tell, he was and still is a party boy, a player, a loser - the complete.opposite of me. I can't believe my wife chose him over me, even for a night, and when I finally divorce her (not any time soon but once my son is grown) I can't wait to ask her if he was worth it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lay out more of what you know about this guy, how you found out and what it took to collect the info.


----------



## alone24

ThePheonix said:


> In a way I understand why you should simply shut up about it. What the hell are you going to do? Besides, I've got news for you my man. If you don't have some legal barrier to keep her from absconding with the kid, what's going to keep her for divorcing you and taking the kid back to Japan anyway.


As long as I play by her rules and don't mention her affair, she's very happy and doesn't want a divorce, so I'm not worried about her taking my son. In fact, he's already been to Japan 5 times and he only just turned 2, so I know everything's fine provided I keep the peace.

I'm a very good husband - much, much better than she deserves - and a good dad too. As long as I don't mention the affair, she will never leave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThePheonix

alone24 said:


> As long as I play by her rules and don't mention her affair, she's very happy and doesn't want a divorce,


Sounds to me like you just need to quit complaining, keep your mouth shut, and go with the flow.


----------



## 3putt

What kind of woman dangles the threat of taking a man's son and running away to another country if she doesn't get her way?

Is this something you can really live with long term, 24?

I admit though, this is a helluva spot to be in.


----------



## GusPolinski

alone24 said:


> I am not scared of my wife. I am scared about what the legal system will allow her to do. And I'm scared of someone with no morals, empathy or compassion raising my son without me to keep her in check.
> 
> My situation has nothing to do with a lack of testosterone or testicles, and has everything to do with a legal system that will take my son from me. Some mothers and fathers may accept not seeing their children everyday to get out of an unhealthy relationship and I respect that choice, but in my situation, the certainty of losing my son combined with my wife's poor character for raising a child, means I cannot go down that route.


How old is your son and at would age would your country's court system take his wishes into account w/ regard to determining custody?

If he had to make the choice today, who do you think he would choose?


----------



## bandit.45

alone24 said:


> I am in Australia. My son was born here but is a dual citizen.
> 
> I have received advice from a family lawyer, and am a lawyer myself and have gone through cases and precedents to ascertain my rights in the event of a divorce. I was advised that if I D I will not win custody of my son. Further, during the dispute, I can prevent my wife taking my son to Japan, but once she wins custody she can apply to the court to relocate my son to Japan, and if the court grants her permission, there is nothing I can do about it. There is a high chance this permission will be granted, so I cannot D.
> [idi]Posted via Mobile Device[/i]


Hide a funnel-web spider in her purse.


----------



## Ripper

Suddenly, all the "herbivore men" in Japan make perfect sense.


----------



## workindad

Do not get her pregnant again.


----------



## Pufferfish

alone24 said:


> My wife refuses to discuss, or even acknowledge, her affair. She has made it very clear that she will divorce me if I even mention what she did. It would make me the happiest man in the world to never see her again, but I have been advised that if we divorce, I will only see my son for a few hours each weekend (no overnight stays), and there is a high chance she would be allowed to relocate him to Japan (her home country).
> 
> I will not lose my son, so I am staying. It's not easy, but I don't feel I have any other choice at this point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



It is apparent that you have decided on being a martyr for access to your son. That's your choice and nobody can take that away from you. 

Wasn't there a warrior code in Japanese culture something along the lines of "It's preferable to die fighting on your feet than live on your knees"? Judging by your wife's behaviour, she must think you are weak and secretly view you with contempt - Enough to expect you to rugsweep an affair with no questions asked. 

Japanese society is proud, conservative and male dominant. You should know more about this than I do since you married a Japanese woman. If your wife returns to Japan as a single mother with a child of a foreigner, I doubt she will be bragging about it. 

I hate to remind you, but all that stuff about your wife taking your son back to Japan can still happen in spite of all your concessions. Your continued appeasement will fuel the lack of respect and lower the chances of any of this ending well for you and you have done nothing but concede. Since the beginning of this thread, your wife holds all the cards. Nothing has really changed has it? 

I'm not looking to kick you while you are down. I just thought that as your fellow man, I'd tell you how your situation looks to an outsider. Good luck with your chosen path. I hope you are prepared, because it's painful to live in fear.


----------



## alone24

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I'm sorry to here that.
> 
> I would have a very hard time sticking it out like you have and will possibly have to continue to.
> 
> You are a stronger man than I my friend.
> 
> I'm guessing that a prenup stating that if she was to cheat again, you have the final say as to if she can take your Son to Japan is not doable, huh?


It is taking every ounce of my self-control not to tell my wife exactly what I think of her, and divorce her immediately. I hate cheaters, and it goes against everything I believe in to stay married to one. Every minute, I look forward to the day I never have to see or talk to her again.

As for a post-nup, my wife won't even acknowledge her affair, so that is completey out of the question. It wouldn't hold up legally, but she doesn't know that and it would mean a lot for her to sign something like that. But it's never going to happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## syhoybenden

Please save your son from growing up in a home where mummy and daddy are not in love with each other. Do no let him grow up thinking that this is normal, unless of course you should wish him to suffer a similar fate.


----------



## alone24

GusPolinski said:


> How old is your son and at would age would your country's court system take his wishes into account w/ regard to determining custody?
> 
> If he had to make the choice today, who do you think he would choose?


My son just turned 2 (my lovely wife told me she cheated when he was 3 months old).

My wife is a stay-at-home mum, and my son still breastfeeds. There is no way I can get primary custody.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## syhoybenden

You got a beef with 50/50??


----------



## alone24

syhoybenden said:


> Please save your son from growing up in a home where mummy and daddy are not in love with each other. Do no let him grow up thinking that this is normal, unless of course you should wish him to suffer a similar fate.


I am a very good actor. Everyone, including my wife, thinks I absolutely adore her. I know the damage treating my wife poorly could do to my son, and I am being very careful not to let him see anything other than a loving household.

Plus if my wife thinks i love her, it will hurt so much more when I am finally able to divorce her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alone24

syhoybenden said:


> You got a beef with 50/50??


I could live with 50/50, but that's not what the court will grant given his age. It's more like 95/5, or less.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## syhoybenden

alone24 said:


> I am a very good actor. Everyone, including my wife, thinks I absolutely adore her. I know the damage treating my wife poorly could do to my son, and I am being very careful not to let him see anything other than a loving household.
> 
> Plus if my wife thinks i love her, it will hurt so much more when I am finally able to divorce her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So, in other words, you are going to make sure that that all of his basic learning of what makes a loving relationship will be derived from observing a pantomime. Do you not see that you will be thus depriving him of the basic ability of being able to distinguish for himself the difference between true love and play-acting at love? You are setting him up to one day follow in your footsteps. Is that what you want for him?

Gee, I can't believe it's not butter. Or can you?


----------



## Q tip

alone24 said:


> I am not scared of my wife. I am scared about what the legal system will allow her to do. And I'm scared of someone with no morals, empathy or compassion raising my son without me to keep her in check.
> 
> My situation has nothing to do with a lack of testosterone or testicles, and has everything to do with a legal system that will take my son from me. Some mothers and fathers may accept not seeing their children everyday to get out of an unhealthy relationship and I respect that choice, but in my situation, the certainty of losing my son combined with my wife's poor character for raising a child, means I cannot go down that route.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Re: MMSLP

Alas... Alas...

QED

Perfect example. So sorry for you my friend. Read the F##n book!


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

syhoybenden said:


> So, in other words, you are going to make sure that that all of his basic learning of what makes a loving relationship will be derived from observing a pantomime. Do you not see that you will be thus depriving him of the basic ability of being able to distinguish for himself the difference between true love and play-acting at love? You are setting him up to one day follow in your footsteps. Is that what you want for him?
> 
> Gee, I can't believe it's not butter. Or can you?


Most of us don't like the idea of the OP sacrificing the next 16 years of his love life by staying with this woman.

I can understand why he feels that he has to do it. If they D his wife will whisk the Son off to Japan. I have to think that this woman raising his Son with out him there to guide him would do far more damage than his acting like everything's fine for the next 16 years. Then the Son, now a man, will be able to decide where he want's to go.

It's a hard choice to have to make. I'm glad that I've never had to make this choice. I can't stand the thought of staying married to this woman, but the alternative is that he looses his Son.

You just know once she got the boy to Japan, she would start trying to turn him against his Father.


----------



## soccermom2three

Alone, I'm so sorry you are going through this. I don't think I could leave either if I knew my kids would be with a bad father for 95% of the time. 

For some reason I thought Australia was a lot farther along regarding dad's rights. At what age do you think your son will have to be for you to leave your wife? Will you have to wait until 18?


----------



## OldWolf57

So you are planning on having only 1 child ????


----------



## OldWolf57

You know, I'm sorry but I just can't believe a man that was so needy that he shave bald for a year, will all of a sudden leave that woman if not for a son, especially if he's young enough to have more kids.

BUT, if it makes you feel stronger, do you.


----------



## aug

alone24 said:


> I could live with 50/50, but that's not what the court will grant given his age. It's more like 95/5, or less.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



How old would your son be when you will be granted 50/50?


----------



## ThePheonix

alone24 said:


> I could live with 50/50, but that's not what the court will grant given his age. It's more like 95/5, or less.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok my man, if you're in Australia, you're either sh-ting us or sh_ting yourself. Read the Family Law Amendment (Shared Parental Responsibility) Act of 2006.


----------



## MattMatt

alone24 said:


> I am a very good actor. Everyone, including my wife, thinks I absolutely adore her. I know the damage treating my wife poorly could do to my son, and I am being very careful not to let him see anything other than a loving household.
> 
> Plus if my wife thinks i love her, it will hurt so much more when I am finally able to divorce her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And you will get this result:-

Your wife: "All these years and I thought he loved me! What a dastard he turned out to be!"

Your son: "All these years and I thought he loved my mum! What a dastard he turned out to be!"

Have you *really* thought this through?:scratchhead:


----------



## alone24

syhoybenden said:


> So, in other words, you are going to make sure that that all of his basic learning of what makes a loving relationship will be derived from observing a pantomime. Do you not see that you will be thus depriving him of the basic ability of being able to distinguish for himself the difference between true love and play-acting at love? You are setting him up to one day follow in your footsteps. Is that what you want for him?
> 
> Gee, I can't believe it's not butter. Or can you?


I worry about this every day. And MattMatt, yes, I also worry about the possibility that my son will hate me for leaving my wife if I do it in the future. 

But I also worry about the possibility of my wife raising my son without me. On the surface, she is a very good mother. She is attentive, caring, is very invested in his development, cooks him incredibly healthy food, etc, etc. But emotionally, she is not equipped to raise a child. She is selfish and childish. She never admits she is wrong, and most importantly, has no ability or willingness to talk though problems/issues (instead preferring to sweep everything under the rug and pretend everything is fine). I worry about the effect this will have on our son as he grows. 

I also worry about the type of morals she will teach him regarding respect and compassion for others, and also about sex and how to treat partners. 

On top of this, because she always puts her own wants/needs first, if we divorce, she will set out to find her next victim/husband immediately, bringing a steady stream of losers around my son, and neglecting my son in the process. 

So yes, I worry about the damage staying will do to my son, but I hope staying will cause him less damage that letting my wife raise him without my direction.


----------



## alone24

OldWolf57 said:


> So you are planning on having only 1 child ????


I used to want at least three kids. Now I don’t want any more, with my wife or any other woman, because there is no way I will ever put myself in a position where someone can trap me like this again.


----------



## alone24

OldWolf57 said:


> You know, I'm sorry but I just can't believe a man that was so needy that he shave bald for a year, will all of a sudden leave that woman if not for a son, especially if he's young enough to have more kids.
> 
> BUT, if it makes you feel stronger, do you.


I agree 100% that I shouldn’t have shaved my head. I also admit that I should’ve left my wife then. But at the time I was 22 years old, completely in love, and though I had wrongly accused my fiancé of cheating on me. I would have done almost anything to prove I was sorry. 

Does that mean I wouldn’t leave her now if we didn’t have a son? Absolutely not. I was a naïve and trusting 22 year old, but even then, if I had known she had cheated, I would have left. She knew this – that’s why she didn’t tell me until I was trapped with her child. If we didn’t have a son, I would be gone.


----------



## alone24

ThePheonix said:


> Ok my man, if you're in Australia, you're either sh-ting us or sh_ting yourself. Read the Family Law Amendment (Shared Parental Responsibility) Act of 2006.


Yes, we’ve had law reform here fairly recently with a focus on shared parental responsibility. However, shared parental responsibility is not the same as shared time (it’s more about sharing responsibility for making important decisions in the child’s life). In deciding custody, the court will make the decision in the best interests of the child. In the case of very young children, precedent has shown that the court is highly reluctant to grant 50/50, because the child’s best interests requires a degree of stability. 

As my son gets older, then yes, I am more likely to be granted 50/50, but if I divorce now and wait, it may be too late – he may be in Japan.


----------



## badmemory

alone24 said:


> My wife refuses to discuss, or even acknowledge, her affair. She has made it very clear that she will divorce me if I even mention what she did. It would make me the happiest man in the world to never see her again, but I have been advised that if we divorce, I will only see my son for a few hours each weekend (no overnight stays), and there is a high chance she would be allowed to relocate him to Japan (her home country).
> 
> I will not lose my son, so I am staying. It's not easy, but I don't feel I have any other choice at this point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Alone,

What other things will you ignore in response to your wife's extortion. A string of OM's? Withholding sex? Being physically/verbally abusive? Spending away all your finances? What is your point of critical mass?

She knows she's got you by the [email protected] and I think you can expect things to get worse over time - if you don't act now.


----------



## naiveonedave

where do you live, in the US it would be virtually impossible for her to take your child out of the country. You need more opinions on this.


----------



## Marduk

alone24 said:


> My wife refuses to discuss, or even acknowledge, her affair. She has made it very clear that she will divorce me if I even mention what she did. It would make me the happiest man in the world to never see her again, but I have been advised that if we divorce, I will only see my son for a few hours each weekend (no overnight stays), and there is a high chance she would be allowed to relocate him to Japan (her home country).
> 
> I will not lose my son, so I am staying. It's not easy, but I don't feel I have any other choice at this point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Get a new lawyer because I'm 100% sure that's complete BS.


----------



## ThePheonix

alone24 said:


> In deciding custody, the court will make the decision in the best interests of the child. In the case of very young children, precedent has shown that the court is highly reluctant to grant 50/50, because the child’s best interests requires a degree of stability.


Can you name some cases that establish this precedent? I'd be delighted to review them or have my next class review them in comparison with Georgia (U.S) civil law.


----------



## MattMatt

alone24 said:


> I worry about this every day. And MattMatt, yes, I also worry about the possibility that my son will hate me for leaving my wife if I do it in the future.
> 
> But I also worry about the possibility of my wife raising my son without me. On the surface, she is a very good mother. She is attentive, caring, is very invested in his development, cooks him incredibly healthy food, etc, etc. But emotionally, she is not equipped to raise a child. She is selfish and childish. She never admits she is wrong, and most importantly, has no ability or willingness to talk though problems/issues (instead preferring to sweep everything under the rug and pretend everything is fine). I worry about the effect this will have on our son as he grows.
> 
> I also worry about the type of morals she will teach him regarding respect and compassion for others, and also about sex and how to treat partners.
> 
> On top of this, because she always puts her own wants/needs first, if we divorce, she will set out to find her next victim/husband immediately, bringing a steady stream of losers around my son, and neglecting my son in the process.
> 
> So yes, I worry about the damage staying will do to my son, but I hope staying will cause him less damage that letting my wife raise him without my direction.


*He will hate you if you live a lie.*


----------



## workindad

OP 

If d is not an option due to the custody issue. Are you sure you want to rule out a proper R. 

I understand she gets mad. Can you try reframing in a way that would lead to an honest attempt at R and not a fake r on your end? 

Could you try telling her you want the family with her but need to deal with this Then find a competent counselor. 

I am not a lawyer and you seem to know that end. What age would your son need to be before the judge would not allow him to be moved since his home and friends are established. That would be a shift in the balance so to speak. 

The way you are planning to move forward does not sound healthy for any involved. I understand your motive but think the method could be reconsidered.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dad&Hubby

alone24 said:


> My son just turned 2 (my lovely wife told me she cheated when he was 3 months old).
> 
> My wife is a stay-at-home mum, and my son still breastfeeds. There is no way I can get primary custody.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You should have a "work" downsize, where you make a lot less money (as you're squirreling it away) and she needs to go get a job.

They make breast pumps and freezers.

PS I'm not saying this to help you get free of her, but you need to stop making her living situation comfortable.


----------



## Q tip

Damn, I think I know who this WW is. Or someone exactly like her.

I have an American friend who married a Japanese girl. Pretty and proper image when you meet her. She was an only child born into a very rich family. She did the usual entitled things and partied hard.

They got Married. Only she did not change her ways from wild single days to the responsibilities of Marriage and children. She hid it, but he eventually caught her with some POSOM.

They D, share the kids, he is primary, but she's history. After a few years, he found a really decent lady and re-married. NOW, he's living happily after and the XWW is still the hyper-entitled party girl. Rich daddy there to support her and soften any hard falls. The XWW is living a life of money and illusion. No hope of a wake-up call. Ever.


----------



## ThePheonix

alone24 said:


> In the case of very young children, precedent has shown that the court is highly reluctant to grant 50/50, because the child’s best interests requires a degree of stability.


Well Dawg I went ahead a looked at the law and pulled up a couple of cases. Based on my analysis you:

1. Should never testify in your own behalf.

2. Are embellishing being a victim of Australian family law including possibly using the kid as an excuse to stay with this chick. (which I think you're doing)

3. Are concerned that the courts weighing "the child's best interest" is not favorable specifically to you.

But I'll give you this. You had me going for a while my man.

Oh, and 4. If you ever decide to go into law, stick with closing real estate.


----------



## alone24

ThePheonix said:


> Well Dawg I went ahead a looked at the law and pulled up a couple of cases. Based on my analysis you:
> 
> 1. Should never testify in your own behalf.
> 
> 2. Are embellishing being a victim of Australian family law including possibly using the kid as an excuse to stay with this chick. (which I think you're doing)
> 
> 3. Are concerned that the courts weighing "the child's best interest" is not favorable specifically to you.
> 
> But I'll give you this. You had me going for a while my man.
> 
> Oh, and 4. If you ever decide to go into law, stick with closing real estate.


At first, I was going to write an arrogant post about why someone who's pulled up a couple of cases thinks they know more about the law that's kept me up at night for the past almost 2 years, but then I realised I actually really appreciate you going to the effort of looking into this for me. If you could post or private message me the cases you're referring to, I'd really appreciate that.

Now to your points.

1. Not sure how I've shown that I would do any damage to my case by testifying, but I can assure you that I would not represent myself in my own custody dispute - I'm obviously too close to it and couldn't trust myself to remain under control.

2. This is absolutely incorrect. If, based on the advice I received from a top family law firm, my own research and also the research of a close friend who works as a family lawyer, I thought I could get at least 50/50, I would leave.

3. This is absolutely correct. I don't have time today but I'll post the factors that the court looks and how they apply in my situation at a later date.

4. I'm already a very successful competition lawyer. I graduated from the top law school in Australia, completing a 3 year post graduate course in 2 years, while commuting 5 hours to uni each day, and received straight high distinctions. I'm not great at a lot of things, but I seem to be pretty good at law. 

That said, as a person I'm very risk averse, especially when it comes to my son. If there's a chance I'll lose him, which is in this case incredibly likely, I won't take that chance. That's not the way I lawyer though, because I understand that different people have different risk thresholds, so I lay out the options and the risks and let them choose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jackskellington

So - do I have the root of this correct:

Your wife cheated on you while you were apart, before you were engaged. She confessed to you 6 years after the fact. You have a child, and it appears you are thinking about divorce. 

If this is correct, my suggestion is to forgive her, get over it, and go to counseling. This all happened before you made legal commitments. yes, your feelings are hurt, and trust has taken a big hit. But you are at two different points in the "getting over it" process. For her, this was long ago - she's not the same person. For you, it's more recent. 

If this is not correct, I apologize. But if you want to end your marriage, I hope there are other reasons besides your wife had sex with someone else before you were engaged. Take it from me, being a divorced dad sucked. Maybe it's best in some cases, but be sure the reasons that you go down that route are a big enough deal for you, because it's a lot of heartache.


----------



## ThePheonix

You know Jack, your post makes more sense than any other. Old alone's likely been harping about it since his old lady told him and she has told him to shut the hell up or she's history. I can't say I blame her. I bet she wishes she'd kept her mouth shut.
My thoughts, and I don't claim to know the nature of their relationship before the "engagement", is there no duty to not date others short of at least a clear and mutual agreement. This business that appears once and awhile to the nature of, "we been dating three weeks when she went out clubbing and cheated on me" is really perplexing; give the word possessive a new meaning.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

ThePheonix said:


> You know Jack, your post makes more sense than any other. Old alone's likely been harping about it since his old lady told him and she has told him to shut the hell up or she's history. I can't say I blame her. I bet she wishes she'd kept her mouth shut.
> My thoughts, and I don't claim to know the nature of their relationship before the "engagement", is there no duty to not date others short of at least a clear and mutual agreement. This business that appears once and awhile to the nature of, "we been dating three weeks when she went out clubbing and cheated on me" is really perplexing; give the word possessive a new meaning.


I believe that Alone said that if he had knew about her cheating on him before they got married, he would have called it off.

So he feels that he was tricked into marrying and having a child with a woman that would not have done this with if he had known.

I see the OP's point and agree. He'd have already left if it weren't for his 2 year old Son.

Between a rock 'n' a hard place.


----------



## vellocet

alone24 said:


> She said she didn't confess at the time because she knew I would leave her (correct!).


So she trapped you into marriage. Nice




> However, she refuses to discuss what happened.


Ok, so she drops the bomb on you, you now know you have been trapped, and she thinks she gets to call the shots??

This isn't going to end well.....for her hopefully.




> She will not answer any of my questions, and has threatened to leave me and take our son to her home country if I act as if anything has changed between us.


WHAT??? She gets to drop a bomb on you and not expect you to have questions? She just wants to get away with it.

Ok, you need to divorce her. But do it quietly. If you do, consult an attorney without her knowing it and document her threats to take your child so the attorney can head it off at the pass.




> But I am completely devestated by what she did - the cheating, the lying, my punishment, telling me after we had a child (thereby trapping me), and refusing to acknowledge my pain now.


I'm just going to say it. My brother, you are married to a complete unapologetic, ruthless, and cold hearted b!tch. You need to free yourself from her and protect your rights as a father.

Document her threats, but don't let her know you are doing it.




> I also have a feeling she is lying about the very little she did tell me.


She is, that I can guarantee.



> So I feel stuck/trapped. Cheating is a deal-breaker for me. I would have left her if I had known about this before we had our son. So, I want to D, but cannot because of my son, for a number of reasons:
> - I will not do anything that could jeopardise my ability to see him everyday


Well you can do something about her taking him out of the country, but you have to get an attorney on that ahead of time without her knowledge.

As far as not seeing your son every day? Join the club of fathers who lose that joy at the hands of POS cheating women like yours and my x-wife. It is what it is. We are the fathers. We get the shaft no matter how much of an immoral POS our wives are.




> - we are from different countries, so if we D one of us will only see our son very infrequently


That's why you see an attorney immediately and document her threats. Get the biggest bulldog of an attorney and preferably one that specializes in father's rights.




> - despite the cheating, my wife is a great, selfless mother.


Bullsh!t. A selfless mother doesn't threaten to take her child away from his father. Selfless mothers(and fathers who cheat for that matter) do not cheat and risk the well being of their child's family life. Don't make excuses for her.



> My son needs her in his life everyday too.
> 
> So I don't know what to do. If I act as if nothing has changed things seem ok but I am (secretly) sad all the time. I thought it might get easier but it's been 8 months and it isn't.



The fact that she popped this on you, refuses to talk about it, and is threatening taking away your child if you act any differently(as if you are suppose to just forget it and get over it), tells me that she probably wants out anyway, and I'll go you one further, I would be willing to bet she is cheating now and has at other points in the marriage.



> What should I do? How can I get my wife to talk about what happened so I can get some closure and move on? And if she won't talk, how can I cope without the answers I need?


Only way you MIGHT get her to talk is to go see an attorney, consult him/her as to what you should do and possibly have paperwork drawn up documenting the threat of taking your son away and the consequences if she does.

She needs to know you aren't going to take this crap and that her threats are going to backfire on her somehow.

But honestly, why do you want such a wench? Sorry if that offends you, but it shouldn't. You deserve better than this. 

Go see an attorney immediately and don't let her know about it. Build a case, spring it on her so she has no time to think about it and she'll be scrambling.


----------



## vellocet

alone24 said:


> I have no concerns that she will cheat in the future. She has matured a lot as a person since she cheated *and will not do it again.*


Her current unapologetic stance and threats do not bear that out.


----------



## michzz

alone24 said:


> After almost 2 years of trying to identify the OM, I think I may have finally found out who he is/what he looks like. From what I can tell, he was and still is a party boy, a player, a loser - the complete.opposite of me. I can't believe my wife chose him over me, even for a night, and when I finally divorce her (not any time soon but once my son is grown) *I can't wait to ask her if he was worth it.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then don't wait, start the divorce now.

You don't have to wait for your son to grow up to show him a healthy response to betrayal.


----------



## vellocet

michzz said:


> Then don't wait, start the divorce now.
> 
> You don't have to wait for your son to grow up to show him a healthy response to betrayal.


Exactly. Alone, do not teach your son to let a cheating wife wrap him around her finger and call the shots. 

Do not raise him to be a cuckold. Save him, and yourself from that.


----------



## ThePheonix

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I believe that Alone said that if he had knew about her cheating on him before they got married, he would have called it off.
> 
> So he feels that he was tricked into marrying and having a child with a woman that would not have done this with if he had known.


Possible cheating notwithstanding, who the hell would marry a woman who attempted to make him shave his damn head. Moreover, what kind of man is enough of a candyazz to do it. 

Alone's problem is that he can't reconcile what a man should be with what a weak and indecisive cat he's allowed himself to become. Any woman he's involved with will be jerking him around and kicking his azz in the direction she wants him to go.


----------



## Q tip

Well, OP said in post #1 cheating is a deal breaker. Now were at #199. Any changes to that value statement...?


----------



## alone24

Q tip said:


> Well, OP said in post #1 cheating is a deal breaker. Now were at #199. Any changes to that value statement...?


Absolutely not. The second I learned she had cheated, all my feelings of love and respect for her vanished. Nothing will ever change the fact that this is a deal breaker for me.

Even if we 'properly' R'd (ie she put in all the hard work required to help me heal), I will never love her again and will most certainly divorce her in the future. I look forward to the day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NotLikeYou

alone24 said:


> After almost 2 years of trying to identify the OM, I think I may have finally found out who he is/what he looks like. From what I can tell, he was and still is a party boy, a player, a loser - the complete.opposite of me. I can't believe my wife chose him over me, even for a night, and when I finally divorce her (not any time soon but once my son is grown) I can't wait to ask her if he was worth it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Alone24, you have a problem.

And I humbly submit that you are NOT handling it in anything resembling a healthy manner, quoting the above post to shine light on my point.

TAM has plenty of stories where one partner cheats on the other, with lurid details of them giggling and laughing at the betrayed spouse behind their back. The OM/OW knows all about the betrayed spouse and seems to take pleasure in their unrecognized humiliation.

As best I can tell from your posts, this particular OM probably has no idea that your future wife had you as a boyfriend. His response if you contact him will probably be "who? what?"

You have not suggested that he is trying to keep in touch with your wife, or anything else.

While you were wronged by his actions, he really isn't the problem.

So digging for TWO YEARS to find out everything you can about him serves no useful purpose. I mean, you get to pretend you're making progress towards discovering the depths of the betrayal and blah, blah, blah. Talking to this guy and getting his side of things is not going to make you feel better. If his story matches your wife, you'll still think he's lying. If he reveals that things were much more involved than your wife has admitted to, well, it's pretty obvious that you will not be able to resolve it constructively with your wife.

You don't want to divorce. Okay. I get that.

And you loathe your wife so much that you don't have any interest in attempting a real Reconciliation. Plus, it doesn't sound like she has the relationship tools to do it from her end, either.

But spending 16 years of your life loathing your partner is not a good way to live. You'll be a twisted, ugly thing by the time that path is walked.

May I once again make a humble suggestion?

Change.

Instead of dwelling on this situation, compartmentalize it. Treat it like a particularly difficult legal case, and box it up as much as you can.

Develop some new hobbies. Do things with your son. Don't be defined by how someone wronged you. You can stay married to her and still make your own story. I hope you choose to do that, because from your posts, you are carrying around more bitterness and angst than anyone should.

I'm not very sympathetic as TAM posters go, but I just don't have it in me to give you a "tough love, man up" post. I hope you can jump on to a different track, man.


----------



## treyvion

vellocet said:


> Her current unapologetic stance and threats do not bear that out.


We all know the $hit sandwich she is forcing down your throat.

It will:

1. Make you nervous for no reason at all
2. Make you doubt yourself and drop your confidence
3. Reduce your sex drive
4. Raise your stress and blood pressure
5. Make you paranoid
6. Her anger and defiance at you and you didn't do anything BUT get cheated on.
7. Feel degraded and treated worse than dirt in interactions with her.
8. Lack of respect and self worth
9. She treats you like she's doing you a favour

smh


----------



## alone24

workindad said:


> OP
> 
> If d is not an option due to the custody issue. Are you sure you want to rule out a proper R.
> 
> I understand she gets mad. Can you try reframing in a way that would lead to an honest attempt at R and not a fake r on your end?
> 
> Could you try telling her you want the family with her but need to deal with this Then find a competent counselor.
> 
> I am not a lawyer and you seem to know that end. What age would your son need to be before the judge would not allow him to be moved since his home and friends are established. That would be a shift in the balance so to speak.
> 
> The way you are planning to move forward does not sound healthy for any involved. I understand your motive but think the method could be reconsidered.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


workingdad, given I have decided to stay, a proper R is exactly what I want. 

However, my wife is not 100% not interested in that. About 8 months ago (more than 1 year post d-day) was the last time we spoke about her affair. This is what happened:

My wife told me how her friend met her husband. I said it was nice to hear a nice love story (hoping to imply our story was not nice – I know how terrible of me, and more seriously, yes, I know being passive-aggressive about this is not the answer, but it’s all I’ve got). 

My wife completely lost it, said our relationship was over, and organised to meet a divorce lawyer the following day. Before she saw the lawyer, we had a ‘talk’. 

I tried to explain how I was still feeling – that I was completely heartbroken by what she had done, that I can’t get over her cheating without discussing it, and that her attitude post d-day has made everything worse. 

She did not to listen to anything I said (sat with either an angry or indifferent look on her face as I spoke). She again told me to get over it or she will leave and take our son. She refused to provide details of her affair (like who the OM is) because she thinks I am being voyeuristic and disgusting. She also refused marriage counseling because it would not benefit her, and said my pain is my problem. 

So as not to lose my son, I managed to placate her, and things went immediately back to ‘normal’, as if the day – her threats of divorce, my admission that I am still in pain, the horrible things she said – never happened.

I have not mentioned her affair since, and I have realised that she will never take responsibility for her affair and help me heal, something I was hoping would happen in time. 

I’m not quite sure what age the balance will tip towards my son staying, because that will depend on numerous factors, but everything else being equal, the older and more settled he is here, the more likely it is he won’t be relocated. So, the longer I wait, the more leverage I have to force a proper R. That said, the longer I wait, the more I resent my wife for making me live in this pain.


----------



## alone24

jackskellington said:


> So - do I have the root of this correct:
> 
> Your wife cheated on you while you were apart, before you were engaged. She confessed to you 6 years after the fact. You have a child, and it appears you are thinking about divorce.
> 
> If this is correct, my suggestion is to forgive her, get over it, and go to counseling. This all happened before you made legal commitments. yes, your feelings are hurt, and trust has taken a big hit. But you are at two different points in the "getting over it" process. For her, this was long ago - she's not the same person. For you, it's more recent.
> 
> If this is not correct, I apologize. But if you want to end your marriage, I hope there are other reasons besides your wife had sex with someone else before you were engaged. Take it from me, being a divorced dad sucked. Maybe it's best in some cases, but be sure the reasons that you go down that route are a big enough deal for you, because it's a lot of heartache.


You have it partly correct, but have left out many important details.

Yes, my wife cheated while we dated long-distance, shortly before we were engaged (although I cannot confirm she didn’t cheat after we were engaged). However, at that stage, we had been dating for 2 years, were talking about marriage, had clearly agreed to be exclusive, and I was home studying law to prepare for our future together (at her request). 

You also left out the fact that at the time she was cheating, I confronted her and she lied to my face and punished me relentlessly for questioning her faithfulness. 

Or the fact that she was having unprotected sex with some party boy(s) and didn’t bother to tell me she took a HIV test. 

You also left out that fact that if she had told me, I would have told her to f*ck off and never spoken to her again. 

And yes, she confessed long after she cheated (more like 3 ½ years than 6 though), 3 months after our son was born (thereby ensuring I was trapped in the marriage). 

But you left out that since then, she has refused to provide any details of her cheating, and threatens to take my son to Japan if I even act as if anything has changed in our relationship. 

And you’re right; we are at two different points in the “getting over it” process. She has nothing to get over - she got to go and have fun, and sex, with some loser while I studied away in some library, setting up our life together. 

But she is not a different person now. She was an unremorseful, selfish b*tch then, and she’s an unremorseful, selfish b*tch now. 

And you’re right, I don’t want to be a divorced dad. But I don’t want to be married to an unremorseful cheater either. I would like her to care about how much she has hurt me and help me, but she doesn’t and won’t. I would like to get over this and forgive her, but I don’t even know what I’m forgiving. 

I wish I could do what you are suggesting, but I cannot.


----------



## alone24

ThePheonix said:


> You know Jack, your post makes more sense than any other. Old alone's likely been harping about it since his old lady told him and she has told him to shut the hell up or she's history. I can't say I blame her. I bet she wishes she'd kept her mouth shut.
> My thoughts, and I don't claim to know the nature of their relationship before the "engagement", is there no duty to not date others short of at least a clear and mutual agreement. This business that appears once and awhile to the nature of, "we been dating three weeks when she went out clubbing and cheated on me" is really perplexing; give the word possessive a new meaning.


Under threat of her taking my son, I have not been ‘harping on’ about this at all. I know nothing about her cheating because I have not even been allowed to ask any questions about it for fear of losing him. 

As I have stated numerous times, we had agreed to be in an exclusive relationship. I even remember discussing not cheating while she was cheating. That said, I was not at all possessive of her, which is why I trusted her while she was out partying all the time (and in reality, she was completely possessive and jealous of me – always wanting to know where I was, who I was with, etc). 

And you know what, to be honest, if I had found out at the time, I would have been upset, but I wouldn’t have really cared that much. I would have dumped her and found someone better.


----------



## Dyokemm

Since you are determined to stay in this situation for your son, I think you should do the following.

Distance yourself from her through a softened version of the 180. Discuss necessities and the kid with her, but do so unemotionally and do not display affection.

Start going out more to do your own thing with friends.

When she gets possessive and jealous and starts questioning where you are, tell her to stop being 'voyeuristic' and mind her own business....it should be enough for her that you are there providing for the family's needs and helping her with the daily routine.

Your hobbies and personal interests are yours alone.


----------



## ThePheonix

So youre stinging because, as we say in the U.S., you got snookered. Here's the thing Dawg, long distance relationship general fail. A chick loses interest in you after a time.


----------



## z_man

alone24 said:


> She was an unremorseful, selfish b*tch then, and she’s an unremorseful, selfish b*tch now.
> 
> *I don’t want to be a divorced dad. But I don’t want to be married to an unremorseful cheater either.*
> 
> I would like her to care about how much she has hurt me and help me, but she doesn’t and won’t.


Since your wife is unwilling to find any remorse or empathy for what she did to you, you would divorce her in a heartbeat.

However, your fear of losing access to your son if you either; properly reconcile or divorce, is preventing you from doing so.

Unless a lawyer has advised you that you can do nothing if she actually took your son back to Japan, then you are left with Dyokemm's suggestion of the modified 180 (soft next) and treat your marriage (and wife) as a mere formality and start living your life as a single dad and your wife as a fvck buddy.


----------



## treyvion

ThePheonix said:


> So youre stinging because, as we say in the U.S., you got snookered. Here's the thing Dawg, long distance relationship general fail. A chick loses interest in you after a time.


It's due to locality. The entire physics of it determines that someone who is physically closer will over time have a better odds of getting a closer connection to her, it could even be a single female girlfriend.

It would take a hardened TAM member to withstand and be strong for a long term relationship. But the rest of the world, everyone will be convincing your long distance relation partner to live their life and have fun.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Alone, I get and feel your pain. I also know quite a bit about the Japanese culture having worked for them and in Japan on and off for 10 years. The women can be quite cold when it comes to dealing with exposing their wrong doings. She would not pull this sh!t with a Japanese man.

Are you absolutely sure that she will be able to abscond with your son to Japan. Have you taken any legal advice on this in Australia ? I would have thought that the Australian government would protect its own.

I would really spend your energy in determining just how easy or difficult it would be for her to attempt this.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Alone, do your kids have passports? If so, why not secure them so that she cannot fly the country with your son? If they do not have passports, any reason why you wouldn't just get them passports yourself and then when they are delivered you squirrel them away? That way, you can prevent your wife from securing them with the intent of taking your son out of the country? Apologize if this was already addressed.


----------



## treyvion

manfromlamancha said:


> Alone, I get and feel your pain. I also know quite a bit about the Japanese culture having worked for them and in Japan on and off for 10 years. The women can be quite cold when it comes to dealing with exposing their wrong doings. She would not pull this sh!t with a Japanese man.
> 
> Are you absolutely sure that she will be able to abscond with your son to Japan. Have you taken any legal advice on this in Australia ? I would have thought that the Australian government would protect its own.
> 
> I would really spend your energy in determining just how easy or difficult it would be for her to attempt this.


How would the Japenese man have dealt with it.


----------



## aug

treyvion said:


> How would the Japenese man have dealt with it.



katana?


----------



## ThePheonix

alone24 said:


> I know nothing about her cheating because I have not even been allowed to ask any questions about it for fear of losing him.


What is it you want to know? Here's how you can answer your own question my man. Think about how she behaved sexually when ya'll were getting along. It was generally like that. Especially after she'd done the guy a few times. Chances are the guy screws just like you do and she used the same techniques on him she uses on you. If you want to know the number of times, I figure, from the time he got in her pants, it happened 10-30 times a month or six week period.

As far as the kid, you hanging around and getting your azz kicked is no guarantee she not going to spirit the kid off to Japan anyway. You may plan on divorcing her in 10-15 years but what's wrong with servicing her during that time. I get the impression you don't want to touch her because of her long ago indiscretion . Hey Dawg, I'm not in love with the Bic pen on my desk but I still use it to write with, if you know what I mean.


----------



## Jasel

manfromlamancha said:


> Are you absolutely sure that she will be able to abscond with your son to Japan. Have you taken any legal advice on this in Australia ? I would have thought that the Australian government would protect its own.
> 
> I would really spend your energy in determining just how easy or difficult it would be for her to attempt this.


Ya this is what I was wondering. Haven't really heard much on this front.


----------



## Arad

I think if she is OK with you now there is no reason to ruin your life by divorcing her. It cant be a serious relationship when you have had long distance connection . obviously she didnt count on it as a serious one and it is understandable as there was a long distance between you two. How many percents of such relationships end up with a marriage!? By this view her cheat is forgivable. The only left problem is the razor and your head issue. It was really an over the red line action by her. Try to making her to do a difficult action to prove you her loyality and if so try to forgive this too.
It seems that users in this website are in love with divorce. I found them suggesting divorce easily to any marriage misfunction. If you were happy before founding this cheating try not to lose your wife.


----------



## alone24

NotLikeYou said:


> Alone24, you have a problem.
> 
> And I humbly submit that you are NOT handling it in anything resembling a healthy manner, quoting the above post to shine light on my point.
> 
> TAM has plenty of stories where one partner cheats on the other, with lurid details of them giggling and laughing at the betrayed spouse behind their back. The OM/OW knows all about the betrayed spouse and seems to take pleasure in their unrecognized humiliation.
> 
> As best I can tell from your posts, this particular OM probably has no idea that your future wife had you as a boyfriend. His response if you contact him will probably be "who? what?"
> 
> You have not suggested that he is trying to keep in touch with your wife, or anything else.
> 
> While you were wronged by his actions, he really isn't the problem.
> 
> So digging for TWO YEARS to find out everything you can about him serves no useful purpose. I mean, you get to pretend you're making progress towards discovering the depths of the betrayal and blah, blah, blah. Talking to this guy and getting his side of things is not going to make you feel better. If his story matches your wife, you'll still think he's lying. If he reveals that things were much more involved than your wife has admitted to, well, it's pretty obvious that you will not be able to resolve it constructively with your wife.
> 
> You don't want to divorce. Okay. I get that.
> 
> And you loathe your wife so much that you don't have any interest in attempting a real Reconciliation. Plus, it doesn't sound like she has the relationship tools to do it from her end, either.
> 
> But spending 16 years of your life loathing your partner is not a good way to live. You'll be a twisted, ugly thing by the time that path is walked.
> 
> May I once again make a humble suggestion?
> 
> Change.
> 
> Instead of dwelling on this situation, compartmentalize it. Treat it like a particularly difficult legal case, and box it up as much as you can.
> 
> Develop some new hobbies. Do things with your son. Don't be defined by how someone wronged you. You can stay married to her and still make your own story. I hope you choose to do that, because from your posts, you are carrying around more bitterness and angst than anyone should.
> 
> I'm not very sympathetic as TAM posters go, but I just don't have it in me to give you a "tough love, man up" post. I hope you can jump on to a different track, man.


I agree I have a problem – and I have asked my wife to help me and she has refused. 

My wife said she told the OM about me, but that’s neither here nor there. As you say, my beef is not with him. But you are right; I want to contact him to verify my wife’s story. I just want to know what happened, and while I realise he probably won’t give me that, he’s more likely to than my wife – that’s why I have spent so much time finding out who he is. 

I do not loath my wife so much that I have no interest in a real reconciliation. Given I have decided to stay, that is exactly what I want, and exactly what I have requested from her. She has refused – the fact we are not in proper R is entirely on her. 

Thank you for the suggestion. I am trying to do that – to compartmentalise – and do manage to do it in bursts. But it is very difficult though, as I have very little free time, and the little I do have, she wants me to spend it with her.


----------



## alone24

treyvion said:


> It's due to locality. The entire physics of it determines that someone who is physically closer will over time have a better odds of getting a closer connection to her, it could even be a single female girlfriend.
> 
> It would take a hardened TAM member to withstand and be strong for a long term relationship. But the rest of the world, everyone will be convincing your long distance relation partner to live their life and have fun.


I really don’t care why people cheat in long-distance relationships. If she wanted to f*ck around she should have told me and I would have told her to f*ck off. 

And I, as a 23 – 25 year old uni student, did not cheat while we dated long-distance for 2 years. She didn’t last 2 months. She doesn’t deserve someone as loyal and respectful as me.


----------



## treyvion

alone24 said:


> I really don’t care why people cheat in long-distance relationships. If she wanted to f*ck around she should have told me and I would have told her to f*ck off.
> 
> And I, as a 23 – 25 year old uni student, did not cheat while we dated long-distance for 2 years. She didn’t last 2 months. She doesn’t deserve someone as loyal and respectful as me.


well, thats true
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alone24

manfromlamancha said:


> Are you absolutely sure that she will be able to abscond with your son to Japan. Have you taken any legal advice on this in Australia ? I would have thought that the Australian government would protect its own.
> 
> I would really spend your energy in determining just how easy or difficult it would be for her to attempt this.


So, here’s the deal with her taking my son to Japan. 

My son has a passport and has already travelled with my wife to Japan 6 times (and obviously returned each time). So long as I am ‘behaving’, she is no threat not to return. 

If she decided not to return while she was on one of these trips, there would be virtually nothing I could do to get my son back to Australia, as Japan is not a signatory to the Hague Convention. However, because I think it’s important for him to know the Japanese side of his family, I have not stopped these frequent trips. 

If we separate or divorce, I can get an injunction to stop my wife taking my son out of the country. So I am not worried about her abducting him to Japan. 

However, the thing I am worried about is: if we divorce, my wife can apply to the court here for permission to relocate my son to Japan. Given I am her only support here, and she has few employment prospects here, the court may grant her this permissions. In this case, I cannot stop her taking him back to Japan.


----------



## nanofaan

alone24
I'm not sure how the laws in Australia but I dont think it that easy for her to take your son a way even if you get divorce.
- do you know for sure that she is not sleeping with same man or different one each time she visit Japan? ( since she is not remorseful)?
- lets say she cheat on you again a month from now are you still going to stay in the marriage? if you are not how is that any different than her cheating on you a awhile back
- right now she is controlling you, if I was you I would tell her my way now or the highway and dont show any sign of weakness dont talk to her dont even give her any attention and fill divorce papers. 
- find you someone better from your home country, marry again and have kids, at the end thats her loss. 
- again, if she thinks she better off in her own in Japan she needs to think again, it is very very hard to get a job in Japan and take care of a kid on your own.
- you have done what you could to save this family it is time to move on. your battle now should be in court room to keep the kid in Australia, and try to record her threatening you taking the kid a way.


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## vellocet

alone24 said:


> However, the thing I am worried about is: if we divorce, my wife can apply to the court here for permission to relocate my son to Japan. Given I am her only support here, and she has few employment prospects here, the court may grant her this permissions. In this case, I cannot stop her taking him back to Japan.


And this is why I say time and time again, courts/judges don't have the first clue as to what the best interest of the child is.

I will say this, in one case of a friend of mine, a judge allowed his X, to take the child too far away from him, and negotiated a certain number of times the child will travel to see the father, in his case twice a year, and the mother has to bear 1/2 the cost of those expenses.


----------



## workindad

Have you actually done a paternity test to see if he is yours? If she travels out of country without you she could easily still be cheating today and you would not know. 

You can do a paternity test if you haven't already. They are cheap easy and painless she does not need to participate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EMZED

Reading all this, I was all ready to tell you to forgive your wife. The affair was 4 years ago, it was while you were living in different places, it was before you were married and before your beautiful child. It looks like she considered her options while you guys were apart, but then decided on you, married you, moved for you, and decided to have children.

I was ready to tell you to let it go! I was reading it thinking, "What's the big deal?"

... but the whole weird shaving head thing is just really disturbing. She made you shave your head?

Now you two are stuck in a relationship where neither partner respects the other. I think it is ok to stay in a marriage to have full time access to your son. But I wish both of you luck and forbearance.


----------



## vellocet

EMZED said:


> Reading all this, I was all ready to tell you to forgive your wife. The affair was 4 years ago, it was while you were living in different places, it was before you were married and before your beautiful child. It looks like she considered her options while you guys were apart, but then decided on you, married you, moved for you, and decided to have children.
> 
> I was ready to tell you to let it go! I was reading it thinking, "What's the big deal?"
> 
> ... but the whole weird shaving head thing is just really disturbing. She made you shave your head?


Really? The shaving of his head thing is what changed your mind about him forgiving her?

Not the fact she dropped the bomb on him and told him if things appear to have CHANGED after telling him that she'll leave and threaten to take his child away from him?

Not the fact that she doesn't want to have any consequences for her actions?

Not the fact that she wanted to unload it on him and have him completely shut up about it and have no feelings on the subject whatsoever??

Not the fact that she is COMPLETELY unremorseful?

No...........its because he shaved his head:scratchhead:


----------



## barbados

workindad said:


> Have you actually done a paternity test to see if he is yours? If she travels out of country without you she could easily still be cheating today and you would not know.
> 
> You can do a paternity test if you haven't already. They are cheap easy and painless she does not need to participate.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I suggested that also a ways back in this thread, but don't remember if Alone did or not.


----------



## vellocet

vellocet said:


> Really? The shaving of his head thing is what changed your mind about him forgiving her?
> 
> Not the fact she dropped the bomb on him and told him if things appear to have CHANGED after telling him that she'll leave and threaten to take his child away from him?
> 
> Not the fact that she doesn't want to have any consequences for her actions?
> 
> Not the fact that she wanted to unload it on him and have him completely shut up about it and have no feelings on the subject whatsoever??
> 
> Not the fact that she is COMPLETELY unremorseful?
> 
> No...........its because he shaved his head:scratchhead:


Ok, I had to append this. I was under the impression that he shaved his own head. LOL

So yes, EMZED, that would be weird. I thought you were saying he was weird for shaving his own. I only read one post about head shaving and didn't understand that she made him do it.

I need a drink


----------



## vellocet

Arad said:


> I think if she is OK with you now there is no reason to ruin your life by divorcing her.


I don't think she is "OK" with him at all.

She dropped the bomb on him and before he even had time to process it all, she threatened him to not have any hurt feelings on the matter or she will take his child away from him.

She is basically saying:

"I cheated, get over it, if anything changes, I'll destroy you. You don't get to have feelings on the matter and I'm not going to suffer any consequences in this. Just suck it up. I am in control here."


----------



## workindad

vellocet said:


> Ok, I had to append this. I was under the impression that he shaved his own head. LOL
> 
> So yes, EMZED, that would be weird. I thought you were saying he was weird for shaving his own. I only read one post about head shaving and didn't understand that she made him do it.
> 
> *I need a drink*


Having some bourbon now, will drink an extra to your health as well.

The whole head shaving incident is bizarre to say the least.


----------



## workindad

barbados said:


> I suggested that also a ways back in this thread, but don't remember if Alone did or not.


Alone- did you follow thru with this? you can google paternity tests and get several results. The tests can be done discreetly.


----------



## alone24

workindad said:


> Alone- did you follow thru with this? you can google paternity tests and get several results. The tests can be done discreetly.


Yes, one of the first things I did after d-day was have a paternity test done (even though I was quite certain she was not cheating around that time). My son is mine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alone24

workindad said:


> Having some bourbon now, will drink an extra to your health as well.
> 
> The whole head shaving incident is bizarre to say the least.


The making me shave my head thing was weird, but there was nothing more to it than this: she had always begged me to do it because she thinks it looks good and I had always refused. When she saw the opportunity to guilt me into doing it (for questioning her faithfulness), she took it. It was very childish and selfish, and also completely in character.

That said, I'm pretty over that aspect of things now because, for one, we were dating long-distance and didn't talk on Skype, so I always grew it long, and for two, although I thought it looked terrible, most people liked it.

Of course, I'm more concerned with the cheating, lying, trapping and lack of empathy now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alone24

vellocet said:


> And this is why I say time and time again, courts/judges don't have the first clue as to what the best interest of the child is.
> 
> I will say this, in one case of a friend of mine, a judge allowed his X, to take the child too far away from him, and negotiated a certain number of times the child will travel to see the father, in his case twice a year, and the mother has to bear 1/2 the cost of those expenses.


This is exactly what I am worried about, and why I have to stay married, regardless of how I feel about my wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cuchulain36

Awful story and one I can relate to, my wife cheated on me when we were dating and only admitted it AFTER we married, which pissed me off because I simply would've dumped her and moved on, to learn of her infidelity and disloyalty AFTER a child and marrying her was a slap to the face. She ended up cheating again while married and I'm sure will cheat again.

Tough break, but once with a cheater you're basically always with a cheater, they can be good for awhile, say all the right things, but at the end of the day they're looking for more and will always look to upgrade.


----------



## alone24

cuchulain36 said:


> Awful story and one I can relate to, my wife cheated on me when we were dating and only admitted it AFTER we married, which pissed me off because I simply would've dumped her and moved on, to learn of her infidelity and disloyalty AFTER a child and marrying her was a slap to the face. She ended up cheating again while married and I'm sure will cheat again.
> 
> Tough break, but once with a cheater you're basically always with a cheater, they can be good for awhile, say all the right things, but at the end of the day they're looking for more and will always look to upgrade.


Are you still with your wife? If so, how do you cope knowing you would just have left if you'd known about her cheating before you had a child? It's this thought more than anything that I struggle with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alone24

vellocet said:


> I don't think she is "OK" with him at all.
> 
> She dropped the bomb on him and before he even had time to process it all, she threatened him to not have any hurt feelings on the matter or she will take his child away from him.
> 
> She is basically saying:
> 
> "I cheated, get over it, if anything changes, I'll destroy you. You don't get to have feelings on the matter and I'm not going to suffer any consequences in this. Just suck it up. I am in control here."


Yeah, she's not ok. I actually think there's something seriously wrong with her. Just last night she was talking about how she can't believe one of her friends is dating a guy that used to date another of her friends and cheated on her. She kept saying how bad the guy was for cheating and that she doesn't want her friend to be with a cheater. She went on about it for ages.

It really is like she's wiped what she did from her memory, or just as worryingly, doesn't see the connection between what he did and what she did to me. I didn't even know what to say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Turin74

It is from April 2014




alone24 said:


> , as Japan is not a signatory to the Hague Convention.


 _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## alone24

Turin74 said:


> It is from April 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Thanks for the update. I knew Japan was close to ratifying but didn't bother to keep track of the developments because I am not really concerned that my wife will take him illegally to Japan.

Still, it's a good development for Japan that it's finally signed up. Hopefully it takes its obligations under the Hague Convention more seriously than it takes its obligations under the Convention for the Regulation of Whaling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Turin74

You are welcome. I'd refrain from posting in your thread, but one thing. Are you getting the right legal advice? Because we are not dealing with extradition here, your son is not in Japan. Prevention from leave under separation is a simpler (not cross jurisdiction) process, basically a motion to the federal circuit or family court. 
Your son could be on airport watch list faster than she's able to say 'o tto!' 

Having said that you are a lawyer, you have retained a family lawyer, so... Just saying. Not that familiar with Australian law. 




alone24 said:


> Turin74 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is from April 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the update. I knew Japan was close to ratifying but didn't bother to keep track of the developments because I am not really concerned that my wife will take him illegally to Japan.
> 
> Still, it's a good development for Japan that it's finally signed up. Hopefully it takes its obligations under the Hague Convention more seriously than it takes its obligations under the Convention for the Regulation of Whaling.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

 _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## alone24

Turin74 said:


> You are welcome. I'd refrain from posting in your thread, but one thing. Are you getting the right legal advice? Because we are not dealing with extradition here, your son is not in Japan. Prevention from leave under separation is a simpler (not cross jurisdiction) process, basically a motion to the federal circuit or family court.
> Your son could be on airport watch list faster than she's able to say 'o tto!'
> 
> Having said that you are a lawyer, you have retained a family lawyer, so... Just saying. Not that familiar with Australian law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Thanks for your concern. If we separate, I've got a pretty good handle on how to prevent her taking him out of the country. My major concern is that once we separate, she can apply to the court to take him to Japan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThePheonix

alone24 said:


> I really don’t care why people cheat in long-distance relationships. If she wanted to f*ck around she should have told me and I would have told her to f*ck off.
> 
> And I, as a 23 – 25 year old uni student, did not cheat while we dated long-distance for 2 years. She didn’t last 2 months. She doesn’t deserve someone as loyal and respectful as me.


The more I read your post the more it seems you and her weren't on the same page in respect to exclusive dating. Women are funny that way. Unless they settled on you and don't want you dating other women, they have not agreed and will continue to seek greener pastures. (and she explained that to you in no uncertain terms by dating) Did she "cheat" after you were officially engaged?
BTW, she didn't make up shave your head. You just can't tell this chick no.


----------



## vellocet

alone24 said:


> This is exactly what I am worried about, and why I have to stay married, regardless of how I feel about my wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not if you can build a case, and have an attorney prove she threatened you with taking your child away from you.

Any judge that would take a parent that threatens to take the child away from the other, and still give custody to that piece of crap needs to be voted out. Threatening or actually taking the child away from another loving parent is NOT in the best interests of the child. And the courts claim to care about what is best for the child.

So if you come to a place where you just can't take it anymore, then see if you can consult an attorney quietly without her knowing and see if you have a case for threatening, blackmail, whatever. Because threatening to take your child away if you have feelings over what she did IS blackmail.

If you can get her on tape or anything saying such things, do so. Otherwise, document everything she says and does in a planner, with dates and times. Have your ducks in a row in the event you ever do seek out a lawyer. And if you do, find one that specializes in father's rights.


----------



## vellocet

alone24 said:


> Yeah, she's not ok. I actually think there's something seriously wrong with her. Just last night she was talking about how she can't believe one of her friends is dating a guy that used to date another of her friends and cheated on her. She kept saying how bad the guy was for cheating and that she doesn't want her friend to be with a cheater. She went on about it for ages.


You should have got up and just walked out of the room.

However, it would seem that she either is a sociopath, or she was testing you to see if you'd come back at her with something on the line of, "I told you not to act like anything has changed!!!"

Trust me, as a father who sees his kids every other weekend, staying for your child's sake is only going to make you miserable, and your time with your child will suffer.

Please quietly consult an attorney. Even if it is just to see if there is something they can do to prevent her from taking your child out of the country.


----------



## vellocet

alone24 said:


> Thanks for your concern. If we separate, I've got a pretty good handle on how to prevent her taking him out of the country. My major concern is that once we separate, she can apply to the court to take him to Japan.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not if you start documenting everything and make the case against her blackmailing you and YOU get custody.

FIGHT this pscho b####!!!!


----------



## cj9947

alone24,
I am going to speak to you the way I speak to my business attorney, "Grow a pair!"...you come across so weak and powerless...you cannot just focus on the "what could go wrong" aspect of your situation. Sometimes you have to follow your personal values and DEAL with the results when they come. You could kiss her ass for the rest of your life and she could still take off with your son. Do not appease emotional terrorists.


----------



## cuchulain36

alone24 said:


> Are you still with your wife? If so, how do you cope knowing you would just have left if you'd known about her cheating before you had a child? It's this thought more than anything that I struggle with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nothing I can really do about it now so why dwell on it? I was young and when she became pregnant I married her. Had I known she was a cheater I would've ran far and wide since we had no children at the time of the infidelity. I would've just said "there's more fish in the sea" and moved on with little harm done.

I do think about how my life would've turned out differently had I known she was a cheater before kids and marriage, how could you not? But really there isn't much point in lamenting too much about it, because the fact is I did marry her, have children, and she has cheated in our marriage, so I have to deal with reality not whatifs.

I have a buddy whose now wife slept with a stripper the entire weekend of her bachelorette party, she basically explained she was entitled to do it and everyone does it, and he still married her!, insane to me. He says he loves her and can get past it, no kids, no alimony, I would be so far gone she literally would not hear one more word from me. He's in for a life of manipulation, lies, cheating, etc... I feel bad for him but some people need to learn the hard way.


----------



## carmen ohio

As far as I can see, offering this OP advice serves no useful purpose.

Rightly or wrongly, OP is convinced that if he does anything to address his WW's pre-marital infidelity, she will divorce him, gain primary custody of their child and take the child to Japan. Moreover, despite her affair, her lack of remorse and empathy and her threats to take his child from him, he also is convinced somehow that she will never cheat on him again.

Thus, his plan (if you can call it that) for dealing with her infidelity is to remain married -- pretending to love her and suffering in silence -- until his son is grown, and then to divorce her.

Given all this, offering him advice would seem to be a futile endeavor.Nor does he appear to be seeking advice. Rather, he seems to be letting off steam over the bad hand fate has dealt him. That's his right and I hope it helps him.

So it puzzles me that so many of you continue to offer him advice after being told that none of it is helpful and that his mind is made up, especially given that there are so many other things you could be doing that would be of service to people who want and need your help.

I don't mean this as a criticism of anybody. I am simply expressing of my curiosity.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Actually knowing the mentality of some Japanese women (and I have known a few in my time having worked there), I fully understand alone's fears.

She would have no qualms in taking the boy back to Japan on one of her "holidays" and never returning again. And OP cannot really stop her from going on these trips.

However, I do believe that consulting with a smart lawyer as to what is the best course of action given the full details, is a smart thing to do. It may be that if he can prove (record her saying it) that she threatened him with this sort of thing, that he could prevent his child from ever being taken to Japan - but then, alone is a fair person and wants the boy to be able to see his Japanese relatives too. And there is the problem. Else I am sure that if it was proven that she might do this, the Australian authorities and legal system can prevent her from travelling with the boy alone to Japan.


----------



## Turin74

You are right carmen, I was just curious why being a lawyer OP refuses to play in the only field he'd have a clear advantage in.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## ThePheonix

carmen ohio said:


> So it puzzles me that so many of you continue to offer him advice after being told that none of it is helpful and that his mind is made up



Because to an extent, its intriguing to watch him tap dance around the advice and hear the plethora of reasons it won't work for him. Its sort of like my uncle would say, "Some folks don know how much fun a greased pig contest is until you get in there and try to catch the darn thing".


----------



## carmen ohio

ThePheonix said:


> Because to an extent, its intriguing to watch him tap dance around the advice and hear the plethora of reasons it won't work for him. Its sort of like my uncle would say, "Some folks don know how much fun a greased pig contest is until you get in there and try to catch the darn thing".


Having grown up in hog country, I can tell you that it's not much easier to catch an ungreased pig. Wouldn't say it's fun, either.

Back to the OP, he said himself that he is very risk averse. That would explain his decision to do nothing about his WW's infidelity and heartlessness. But I'm guessing that the strain of living with her will become unbearable long before his child is grown and he will belatedly decide to take action. Only, by then, it will be much more difficult and costly.

Either that or she will cheat on him again. Why shouldn't she -- he's demonstrated that he is her thrall and that she has nothing to fear from him.


----------



## alone24

ThePheonix said:


> The more I read your post the more it seems you and her weren't on the same page in respect to exclusive dating. Women are funny that way. Unless they settled on you and don't want you dating other women, they have not agreed and will continue to seek greener pastures. (and she explained that to you in no uncertain terms by dating) Did she "cheat" after you were officially engaged?
> BTW, she didn't make up shave your head. You just can't tell this chick no.


I cannot be clearer to you than saying it was completely clear at the time that we were in an exclusive relationship. She didn't stick to the agreement, but that doesn't mean we didn't have one. This is the last time I will address this point, but for your benefit, here are some points to prove we were in an exclusive relationship:

- We had agreed to remain exclusive (that's all I need to say but will go on)

- She made it clear that if I cheated she would leave me (a point she reiterated post d-day), and I made the same clear to her.

- Prior to dating long-distance we had been dating for 2 years and were effectively living together for 1.

- We were discussing marriage while she cheated (and got engaged just after she cheated).

- We spoke at least twice everyday, at her request (her morning and night).

- We were only apart because she wanted me to study law to prepare for our future together (and it wasn't feasible for her to move here then).

- She denied and kept her cheating a secret until we had a child and I was trapped.

In short, it was very clear we were in an exclusive relationship. She took advantage of the distance and my trusting nature to fu*k around behind my back while I was setting up our future together.

And I have no idea if she cheated on me after we got engaged. We dated long-distance for 1 1/2 years after that, and she still lived and worked with the loser she cheated on me with for that time, and secretly ordered a HIV test kit, so I would be shocked if she wasn't cheating then too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lenzi

carmen ohio said:


> As far as I can see, offering this OP advice serves no useful purpose.
> 
> So it puzzles me that so many of you continue to offer him advice after being told that none of it is helpful and that his mind is made up.


People aren't logical creatures.

As people give advice maybe they're thinking "despite the fact that this guy is unable or unwilling to take any advice and his mind is obviously made up, perhaps he'll read my mindblowing post and realize he's gotta follow my lead".

Or something like that.


----------



## ThePheonix

carmen ohio said:


> Having grown up in hog country, I can tell you that it's not much easier to catch an ungreased pig. Wouldn't say it's fun, either.


Many moons ago when I was in high school, my agriculture class would vaccinate hundreds of hogs for local farmers. I know what you mean.



alone24 said:


> I cannot be clearer to you than saying it was completely clear at the time that we were in an exclusive relationship.


Sounds like you were and she wanted you in an exclusive relationship while she had a substitute to spend romantic days with. If its any consolation Dawg you need to remember they (gals) are smarter than we (guys) are which is why you're in the place you're in without much wiggle room. A good word for it is checkmate.


----------



## Ripper

alone24 said:


> and secretly ordered a HIV test kit


Holy crap! You just have the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## alone24

vellocet said:


> Not if you start documenting everything and make the case against her blackmailing you and YOU get custody.
> 
> FIGHT this pscho b####!!!!


Her threats are a form of blackmail, but they're not the sort of threats that will really work against her in a custody battle because in essence all she is saying is that if we divorce, she will fight for custody of my son. If I recorded our conversations it would (a) be inadmissible and (b) while it would prove she's a selfish b*tch, it wouldn't prove she's a poor mother.

And unfortunately for me, everyone thinks she's an amazing mother who would do anything for our son, and the only negative points I have on her are not really tangible (eg. selfish, inability to discuss problems, etc).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PreRaphaelite

OP: You course of action is based on the assumption that your marriage will last long enough for your son to come of age. Given the threats of blackmail and your wife's past history, I see a very good chance of that not happening.


----------



## alone24

carmen ohio said:


> As far as I can see, offering this OP advice serves no useful purpose.
> 
> Rightly or wrongly, OP is convinced that if he does anything to address his WW's pre-marital infidelity, she will divorce him, gain primary custody of their child and take the child to Japan. Moreover, despite her affair, her lack of remorse and empathy and her threats to take his child from him, he also is convinced somehow that she will never cheat on him again.
> 
> Thus, his plan (if you can call it that) for dealing with her infidelity is to remain married -- pretending to love her and suffering in silence -- until his son is grown, and then to divorce her.
> 
> Given all this, offering him advice would seem to be a futile endeavor.Nor does he appear to be seeking advice. Rather, he seems to be letting off steam over the bad hand fate has dealt him. That's his right and I hope it helps him.
> 
> So it puzzles me that so many of you continue to offer him advice after being told that none of it is helpful and that his mind is made up, especially given that there are so many other things you could be doing that would be of service to people who want and need your help.
> 
> I don't mean this as a criticism of anybody. I am simply expressing of my curiosity.


Carmen, I appreciate your post, just as I read and appreciate all the advice I have been given on TAM. 

I have made up my mind to stay for now, you are right about that. But everyone's posts have certainly been helpful. To know that others also think my wife's behaviour is appalling has made me resolute to do something about it, even if I wait a while before I act.

I have also taken on board the advice re compartmentalising my life and doing things for myself, and can see long-term how this will help me cope. I have also tried the 180 and can see that it will be quite effective on my wife.

That said, yes, I also come on here to let off steam. I have not told anyone bar a close female friend about this, and do not want to bother her with it any more, so TAM is the only ear I have. 

And no, I am no longer convinced my wife won't cheat again. As you say, why wouldn't she? No guilt, no remorse, no consequences. That's certainly something I have taken from others' posts too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alone24

vellocet said:


> You should have got up and just walked out of the room.
> 
> However, it would seem that she either is a sociopath, or she was testing you to see if you'd come back at her with something on the line of, "I told you not to act like anything has changed!!!


It really didn't feel like a test - it really is was like she couldn't see that she had done the same, or in fact worse, to me. This type of thing has happened a few times recently (another example - she was upset with a friend's husband for not telling the friend about his sort-of-sizeable debt before they got married because it's not good to bring big secrets into a marriage).

I think she might have borderline personality disorder, or she's just a massive b*tch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carmen ohio

alone24 said:


> Carmen, I appreciate your post, just as I read and appreciate all the advice I have been given on TAM.
> 
> I have made up my mind to stay for now, you are right about that. But everyone's posts have certainly been helpful. To know that others also think my wife's behaviour is appalling has made me resolute to do something about it, even if I wait a while before I act.
> 
> I have also taken on board the advice re compartmentalising my life and doing things for myself, and can see long-term how this will help me cope. I have also tried the 180 and can see that it will be quite effective on my wife.
> 
> That said, yes, I also come on here to let off steam. I have not told anyone bar a close female friend about this, and do not want to bother her with it any more, so TAM is the only ear I have.
> 
> And no, I am no longer convinced my wife won't cheat again. As you say, why wouldn't she? No guilt, no remorse, no consequences. That's certainly something I have taken from others' posts too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do what you think is best, alone24. Hope it all works out for you somehow.


----------



## phoenix_

ThePheonix said:


> Possible cheating notwithstanding, who the hell would marry a woman who attempted to make him shave his damn head. Moreover, what kind of man is enough of a candyazz to do it.
> 
> Alone's problem is that he can't reconcile what a man should be with what a weak and indecisive cat he's allowed himself to become. Any woman he's involved with will be jerking him around and kicking his azz in the direction she wants him to go.


Gotta agree with that. The fact that he's willing to fake being in love with his wife for 16 years says a lot about his personality. 
It also feels like a lot of this story isn't adding up....


----------



## vellocet

alone24 said:


> Her threats are a form of blackmail, but they're not the sort of threats that will really work against her in a custody battle because in essence all she is saying is that if we divorce, she will fight for custody of my son.


No, she is saying she will go for custody and move him out of the country if you don't act exactly as she wants you to.

THAT is a threat. Just is threatening taking your child away from you, not fighting for custody and turning you into an every other weekend dad.




> If I recorded our conversations it would (a) be inadmissible


That only applies to certain facets of the law and in certain situations, like wiretapping a phone. I'm no law expert, but lawyers will advise their clients to document everything.




> (b) while it would prove she's a selfish b*tch, it wouldn't prove she's a poor mother.


Bullsh!t. A good mother does NOT take her child away from his father, hence taking the father away from the child. That is cruel to your son. Last I checked good parents aren't cruel to their kids.



> And unfortunately for me, everyone thinks she's an amazing mother who would do anything for our son


Then they either don't have an opinion of denying her son his father, or the people that think she is an amazing mother aren't worth 2 squirts of p!ss in the first place.





> and the only negative points I have on her are not really tangible (eg. selfish, inability to discuss problems, etc).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, no NO. The tangible thing you have is her threatening to take your child away from you. Not going for custody, but removing your son from your life!! 

Look, its obvious to me now that you do not want to listen to what we are telling you, or you are just to scared to ante up and get a lawyer.

So just let her wrap you around her finger, do what she says, and act like nothing is wrong. Boil on the inside, be miserable and just deal with the fact that she is in control. Its all you can do if you aren't going to take control of your life and your son's.

Good luck with that.


----------



## ThePheonix

vellocet said:


> So just let her wrap you around her finger, do what she says, and act like nothing is wrong. Boil on the inside, be miserable and just deal with the fact that she is in control.


All I can say is Alone better hope she doesn't come up with, _"Honey I've never seen two men have sex and have always been curious. So unless you're at least bi your going to hate the next thing I'm requiring you to do._


----------



## alone24

phoenix_ said:


> Gotta agree with that. The fact that he's willing to fake being in love with his wife for 16 years says a lot about his personality.
> It also feels like a lot of this story isn't adding up....


What's not adding up? I love my son and am aware of how the legal system works against fathers, so I'm staying until the odds balance out and I won't lose him. I'm not necessarily waiting until he turns 18, I just want him old enough to tip the balance towards him not being relocated to Japan.

And sadly, I don't think it's unusual for a parent to stay in an unhappy relationship for the (perceived at least) benefit of their children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lenzi

alone24 said:


> What's not adding up?


Suggestion: Don't try to defend yourself to the doubters or the ones who joke and mock your situation. It's counterproductive. 

Concentrate on the advice you're being given, take what you can use and disregard the rest.

Unfortunately you're disregarding most of it but anyway you get the idea.


----------



## treyvion

alone24 said:


> What's not adding up? I love my son and am aware of how the legal system works against fathers, so I'm staying until the odds balance out and I won't lose him. I'm not necessarily waiting until he turns 18, I just want him old enough to tip the balance towards him not being relocated to Japan.
> 
> And sadly, I don't think it's unusual for a parent to stay in an unhappy relationship for the (perceived at least) benefit of their children.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why should it be an "unhappy" situation in the first place?

It's unhappy because one of the partners doesn't really care about the other. Why would you stay in a situation where your partner doesn't really care about you even if you do have children?


----------



## larry.gray

Japan finally signs Hague convention


----------



## warlock07

warlock07 said:


> And to show my remorse, she made me razor my hair. Because I felt so awful for (sort-of) accusing her I razored my hair at her insistance for 1 year.


What the ****ing **** did I read ?

Staying 16-18 years with this psycho is unfeasible. Your kid will end up fatherless.


----------



## wmn1

alone24 said:


> I've been in a relationship with my wife for 6 years, married 2+ years, and we have a 11 month old son. We're from different countries and now live together in my home country. We're both 27.
> 
> 8 months ago, my wife confessed out of the blue to cheating on me before we were married. She cheated 2 years into the relationship, immediately after we started dating long-distance, and about a month before we got engaged (we started dating LD to make it easier to eventually live together). At this time, we were very serious and were talking often about marriage.
> 
> She says she liked the OM, spent a lot of time with him for a month, kissed him on one occasion, and had sex with him on one occasion. She said she called it off after that and didn't see him again (hard to believe as as far as I know they lived in the same apartment complex and worked for the same large company).
> 
> When she cheated we were were living in different countries (and very different timezones) so I had no idea anything was going on. I visited her after 4 months apart and we got engaged. On that trip, she let me use her phone and I found an old text from a guy calling her 'hon'. I asked her who he was and she went absolutely insane, threated to break up with me for not trusting her, etc. And to show my remorse, she made me razor my hair. Because I felt so awful for (sort-of) accusing her I razored my hair at her insistance for 1 year. And anytime I complained (because I absolutely hated it), she would say 'Remember what you did?'. Now, it turns out she was cheating and I was punished for catching her.
> 
> She said she didn't confess at the time because she knew I would leave her (correct!). She said she told me now because she feels guilty about what she did.
> 
> However, she refuses to discuss what happened. She will not answer any of my questions, and has threatened to leave me and take our son to her home country if I act as if anything has changed between us.
> 
> But I am completely devestated by what she did - the cheating, the lying, my punishment, telling me after we had a child (thereby trapping me), and refusing to acknowledge my pain now.
> 
> I also have a feeling she is lying about the very little she did tell me. For example, says she used protection, but I know she secretly ordered a home HIV-test kit about 9 months after when she said she cheated (the test never got delivered though and she does not have HIV).
> 
> So I feel stuck/trapped. Cheating is a deal-breaker for me. I would have left her if I had known about this before we had our son. So, I want to D, but cannot because of my son, for a number of reasons:
> - I will not do anything that could jeopardise my ability to see him everyday
> - we are from different countries, so if we D one of us will only see our son very infrequently
> - despite the cheating, my wife is a great, selfless mother. My son needs her in his life everyday too.
> 
> So I don't know what to do. If I act as if nothing has changed things seem ok but I am (secretly) sad all the time. I thought it might get easier but it's been 8 months and it isn't.
> 
> What should I do? How can I get my wife to talk about what happened so I can get some closure and move on? And if she won't talk, how can I cope without the answers I need?
> 
> I have no one to talk to about this, so would really appreciate any suggestions.




My suggestions;

the good is that she admitted it to you but the bad is she is defensive and secrret about it She also admitted too late

One time is not probable especially over one month

She held her cheating over your head


Get a DNA test for the child
Force a discussion
You can't act if nothing changed

You need to consider the impact on your finances and child but at least you are early enough into this that you can move on and recover

Do we know if it will happen again

I applaud you sir, you have great morals. Cheating is still a deal breaker for many of us, even in a world of moral decay.

This one is hard to fathom because you feel trapped but you know, by way of your post, what the right move is for you


----------



## marty39

the guy said:


> Your kidding, right?


I am signing this


----------



## Theseus

alone24 said:


> Thanks for your concern. If we separate, I've got a pretty good handle on how to prevent her taking him out of the country. My major concern is that once we separate, she can apply to the court to take him to Japan.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Physically get ahold of the children's passports, then she won't be able to take the children without you. In most countries, your wife can't renew or replace them without you signing the paperwork also.


----------



## Nucking Futs

larry.gray said:


> Japan finally signs Hague convention


It's not very nice of you to go and shoot down his excuse. Now the poor guy has to think of some other reason to puss out.


----------



## alone24

larry.gray said:


> Japan finally signs Hague convention


Larry, thanks for taking the time to bring this to my attention. I was already aware Japan had signed, but really appreciate your post.

As I've posted before, Japan signing won't help with a court approved relocation order, but it is a nice safeguard for my wife's trips back to Japan with my son (the next of which is scheduled next month).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alone24

One of the issues I'm really struggling with is the fact that my wife is and always has been so boring and unadventurous when it comes to sex. From when we started dating, sex has always been lights off, in only a few positions, with her taking no initiative and with so many rules on what I am and am not allowed to do.

I really struggle to understand how someone like that could cheat, and it makes me so angry to think about.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this?


----------



## syhoybenden

It's not like you've drawn the short straw and there's no way out. You still have options.


----------



## alone24

Two years post d-day today - f*ck I hate my wife!


----------



## bandit.45

alone24 said:


> Two years post d-day today - f*ck I hate my wife!


Well you've chosen to stay with her. Either figure out a way to suck it up
and accept her for the moron she is, or divorce her. No excuse for whining about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kenmoore14217

alone24 said:


> Two years post d-day today - f*ck I hate my wife!



I think you hate yourself more. Until that issue is cleared up you will keep repeating history.


----------



## syhoybenden

Why are you still there?


----------



## bandit.45

syhoybenden said:


> Why are you still there?


The child.


----------



## NotLikeYou

bandit.45 said:


> The child.


Yeah, he keeps saying that. 

I would love to say something trite about how "limbo sucks," but when the person in question is actively involved in living a life filled with rage and hatred, it seems like a futile gesture.

Based on what he has written here about himself, alone24 has worked hard, and has some gifts in life. It's sad that he is focused on this situation and unwilling to get to a better place.


----------



## warlock07

Just another 17 -18 moreyears. 

Then you will wonder how you wasted away your life. 


keep searching for solutions. There should be a way.


----------



## alone24

NotLikeYou said:


> bandit.45 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The child.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, he keeps saying that.
> 
> I would love to say something trite about how "limbo sucks," but when the person in question is actively involved in living a life filled with rage and hatred, it seems like a futile gesture.
> 
> Based on what he has written here about himself, alone24 has worked hard, and has some gifts in life. It's sad that he is focused on this situation and unwilling to get to a better place.
Click to expand...

I don't live a life filled with rage and hatred. I love my son, I love my family and friends and job. I'm living the life I always wanted - I'm just not living it with who I want.


I hate my wife, because she took away my choice of life partner and doesn't care how she's hurt me. I really don't think it's too much to ask to want a wife that actually cares about me and how I feel. 



And I am trying as hard as I can to get to a better place, but I am doing it alone. Given I am staying, I would do anything to repair the marriage my wife broke. But she is unwilling to take responsibility and help me, and there is only so much I can do by myself. 


I truly hate living like this, and hope my wife helps me to love her again, but I don't think she will. She loves herself more than she loves me or our son.


----------



## Nucking Futs

alone24 said:


> I don't live a life filled with rage and hatred. I love my son, I love my family and friends and job. I'm living the life I always wanted - I'm just not living it with who I want.
> 
> I hate my wife, because *she took away my choice of life partner* and doesn't care how she's hurt me. I really don't think it's too much to ask to want a wife that actually cares about me and how I feel.


Your wife didn't take away your choice of life partners. Make no mistake about it, _you_ made the choice to marry your wife. _You_ made the choice to stay married to her when it's clearly in your best interest to kick her to the curb. Your wife didn't take that choice away from you, _you're choosing not to exercise it._



alone24 said:


> And *I am trying as hard as I can to get to a better place*,


No you're not. You're wallowing in self pity.



alone24 said:


> but I am doing it alone. Given I am staying, I would do anything to repair the marriage my wife broke. But she is unwilling to take responsibility and help me, and *there is only so much I can do by myself.*


There's more you can do by yourself. Plenty more.



alone24 said:


> *I truly hate living like this*, and hope my wife helps me to love her again, but I don't think she will. She loves herself more than she loves me or our son.


My ass. If you hated living like this you wouldn't.


----------



## Openminded

When all of this is over someday, you may find your son don't appreciate that you stayed. My now-adult son has said he wishes I had gotten out 30 years ago when my former husband cheated instead of waiting until last year to get a divorce. Why? He said he always knew we were not the happy family that others saw and that he wanted us to be. Do I regret those 30 lost years? Every day.


----------



## RealityBites2

I think you have to communicate with her how hard this is for you. There was deception and now she is manipulating you by threatening to go back to her country?

I think you need to let her know that you are hurting too and you need to process this whole thing at your own pace. I am wondering why she really confessed to this whole thing: to mend your relationship and move on or there are other reasons.

Would she be open to let in a third party to help you guys out?


----------



## bandit.45

Sunganani said:


> I think you have to communicate with her how hard this is for you. There was deception and now she is manipulating you by threatening to go back to her country?
> 
> I think you need to let her know that you are hurting too and you need to process this whole thing at your own pace. I am wondering why she really confessed to this whole thing: to mend your relationship and move on or there are other reasons.
> 
> Would she be open to let in a third party to help you guys out?


Go through and read it all again. 

She doesn't care.


----------



## bandit.45

The Japanese are raised to be compartmentalyzers. It's in their DNA. It's cultural. 

The premarital sex meant nothing to her. It was just sex. No emotion or feeling. This is why she cannot understand why the OP is making such a big deal out of it. She doesn't feel she did anything wrong.


----------



## Decorum

bandit.45 said:


> The Japanese are raised to be compartmentalyzers. It's in their DNA. It's cultural.
> 
> The premarital sex meant nothing to her. It was just sex. No emotion or feeling. This is why she cannot understand why the OP is making such a big deal out of it. She doesn't feel she did anything wrong.


Tell her you are going to take a concubine.
.
.
.
.


----------



## bandit.45

Decorum said:


> Tell her you are going to take a concubine.
> .
> .
> .
> .


As long as he's bringing home the bread she probably wouldn't care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

No, he will probably wake up being stabbed to death ..


----------



## alone24

Sunganani said:


> I think you have to communicate with her how hard this is for you. There was deception and now she is manipulating you by threatening to go back to her country?
> 
> I think you need to let her know that you are hurting too and you need to process this whole thing at your own pace. I am wondering why she really confessed to this whole thing: to mend your relationship and move on or there are other reasons.
> 
> Would she be open to let in a third party to help you guys out?


Thanks for your thoughtful post. Unfortunately, my wife really doesn't care how this is affecting me. I have suggested marriage counselling, and she refused on the basis that it would only benefit me, and not her.


----------



## Chaparral

I read one time that married people in Japan didn't mind if their spouse had sex with other people as long as love wasn't involved.

There was also a report that many school girls were having sex for money and it supposedly wasn't a big deal.

And what's up with that whole geisha thing?


----------



## alone24

bandit.45 said:


> The Japanese are raised to be compartmentalyzers. It's in their DNA. It's cultural.
> 
> The premarital sex meant nothing to her. It was just sex. No emotion or feeling. This is why she cannot understand why the OP is making such a big deal out of it. She doesn't feel she did anything wrong.


No, it didn't mean nothing to her. She told me she liked the guy, that they'd been hanging out for a month or so before sleeping together. So really, since I was in another country, she had another boyfriend. 

But you're right, she didn't think it was wrong to cheat (otherwise why would she?) and doesn't think it's a big deal.


----------



## alone24

warlock07 said:


> No, he will probably wake up being stabbed to death ..


I am 100% sure she would leave if I cheated. She told me post d-day she would have left me if I had cheated while we dated long-distance (despite the fact she was cheating at that time). Gotta love the double standard.


----------



## Decorum

alone24 said:


> I am 100% sure she would leave if I cheated. She told me post d-day she would have left me if I had cheated while we dated long-distance (despite the fact she was cheating at that time). Gotta love the double standard.


Hummm sounds like she just fills a role.

Do you think she told you out of guilt or does she resent you and want to emasculate you?

Does she know she may end up alone?

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alone24

Decorum said:


> alone24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am 100% sure she would leave if I cheated. She told me post d-day she would have left me if I had cheated while we dated long-distance (despite the fact she was cheating at that time). Gotta love the double standard.
> 
> 
> 
> Hummm sounds like she just fills a role.
> 
> Do you think she told you out of guilt or does she resent you and want to emasculate you?
> 
> Does she know she may end up alone?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

She told me 3 months after our son was born. She was sleep-deprived, home-sick and maybe a little depressed. The day she confessed, it seemed like guilt made her do it, but I think she immediately regretted telling me. I don't think she resents me. She said she told me because she felt we were close enough for her to tell me.


She doesn't realise she will end up alone. She doesn't seem to have the ability to think long-term or see how her actions affect others.


If I told her I will probably leave her one day unless she tries to work on the marriage, her response would that we should just divorce now. 


So, despite me telling her I am not ok, she thinks everything is ok and can't see that I wish we were not married and will leave her when the time is right. In fact, she always talks about what we'll do together when we're older.


----------



## Decorum

Thanks for replying.

Maybe something will click for her at some point.
You guys have a lot of living ahead of you.

Hey your is you son walking now?
Ha ha I remember those years.

They were fascinating and fun times.

Even with the situation as it is if you are going to stay for now try not to have a child centered marriage, you may be glad one day you invested in it.

I do wish you well.
Take care!


----------



## alone24

Decorum said:


> Thanks for replying.
> 
> Maybe something will click for her at some point.
> You guys have a lot of living ahead of you.
> 
> Hey your is you son walking now?
> Ha ha I remember those years.
> 
> They were fascinating and fun times.
> 
> Even with the situation as it is if you are going to stay for now try not to have a child centered marriage, you may be glad one day you invested in it.
> 
> I do wish you well.
> Take care!


I really hope something clicks for her, but I am not holding out hope. She is very, very self-centered and doesn't seem to be able to self-reflect.


Yes, my son is walking, and talking. He's just over 2 now is a wonderful little person. Everyday he does or says something that makes me laugh. I love him more than anything and seeing him everyday is worth the pain staying is causing me.


I do not love my wife, and do not enjoy spending time alone with her, so we have a completely child centered marriage. I wish this wasn't the case, and I'm willing to invest in the marriage, but she isn't.


----------



## Machiavelli

Divorce her ass. Another day with this woman is one day too many.


----------



## treyvion

alone24 said:


> I am 100% sure she would leave if I cheated. She told me post d-day she would have left me if I had cheated while we dated long-distance (despite the fact she was cheating at that time). Gotta love the double standard.


Cheat on her so she can take her ass on!:thumbup:


----------



## alone24

Long time between drinks for me on here. Nothing has changed though.

Yesterday was our wedding anniversary. What a joke. We didn't celebrate, although she did acknowledge it.

Then, to top it off, my wife wouldn't stop talking about how stupid one of her friends is for dating a guy who used to date another one of her friends a long time ago (like, in high school or something) and maybe cheated on her. She thinks the guy is scum and the friend deserves better. And she can't believe the friend would date him now when she knew he was maybe a cheater.

I was at a loss for words. So she's incredibly worried a friend is dating someone who maybe cheated on a different girl in high school, but it's fine for me to marry her, who cheated on, lied to, and manipulated me into marrying her.

Unbelievable! 

And sorry, I just needed to vent.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Your wife sounds a bit narcissistic. I am sure she has her good qualities, but is she really a long term partner material? Take love and emotions out of the equation, is she the type of person you want to spend the rest of your life with? Unfortunately, love does not care about our partner's flaws, how they make us suffer at times, and it makes it seem illogical in why we stay with the person we are with. Have you tried detaching and go to counseling? The more you do things that bond with her, the harder it is to detach. Anyways, sounds like you have a marriage without the relationship. I am newer here, so I did not read your story at all, but whatever you decide to do, I hope you find the strength to do what is best for you. Life is precious, so I hope you find a fulfilling life.


----------



## ConanHub

Honestly dude, your wife seems like an almost complete b1tch. Why are you with her? Don't say kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

Like many people your wife knows how other people should behave. But can't work that knowledge into her own life.

Like an alcoholic I knew who would tell other people (who had no alcohol problems) that they were drinking too much but who refused to acknowledge their own problems with alcohol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Decorum

alone24 said:


> Yesterday was our wedding anniversary. What a joke.
> 
> Unbelievable!


You have said it yourself.
Let it sink in, believe it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## imjustwatching

Man up and divorce her ass ...


----------



## Dogbert

You said divorce is not an option because of your son. But what if she starts cheating again? Are you going to endure that until your son turns 18? Face it, you have no deal breakers that you are willing to enforce.


----------



## wmn1

Alone,

I am relatively new here. Since August. I find most of the posters on here to be spot on, despite disagreements with a few, they are all well intended. I know some can't stand me.

None-the-less, I notice your initial post is two years old. I am saddened to see you still going through issues after this long. 

Your post this morning rang volumes to me that after 2 years, you still don't have peace, your wife is showing not much remorse but she imposes the values that your relationship has on others.
I am sorry for the infidelity you have suffered

Several questions

1) Are you sure she has been loyal throughout your marriage ?
2) Has she ever shown remorse for her actions and if so, how much ?
3) Do you feel her moral values are in line now or is she being practical with others and not you ?
4) What actions are you willing to take now to solidify things with your marriage ? or part with them ?


----------



## Q tip

Have you DNA'd your kid yet? Saying he's yours and looks like you is not a DNA test.

Damn... Cheating a couple times admitting, no consequences, knowing if she told you you'd dump her. Sounds like a cheater eh?

So dump her already.

And you better not cheat you know, she'll dump your scrawny a$$...


----------



## ThePheonix

Mr.Fisty said:


> Your wife sounds a bit narcissistic.



I'm nominating you for making the understatement of the week Fisty.


----------



## Q tip

alone24 said:


> I am not scared of my wife. I am scared about what the legal system will allow her to do. And I'm scared of someone with no morals, empathy or compassion raising my son without me to keep her in check.
> 
> My situation has nothing to do with a lack of testosterone or testicles, and has everything to do with a legal system that will take my son from me. Some mothers and fathers may accept not seeing their children everyday to get out of an unhealthy relationship and I respect that choice, but in my situation, the certainty of losing my son combined with my wife's poor character for raising a child, means I cannot go down that route.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And denial...


----------



## Q tip

alone24 said:


> Absolutely not. The second I learned she had cheated, all my feelings of love and respect for her vanished. Nothing will ever change the fact that this is a deal breaker for me.
> 
> Even if we 'properly' R'd (ie she put in all the hard work required to help me heal), I will never love her again and will most certainly divorce her in the future. I look forward to the day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In other words, yes.


----------



## Q tip

You know the legal system where you are. Become friends with the judges, golf, dinners, bars, whatever they do. 

Get on the inside, then slowly let them know. Get a deal and understanding going. Then file.

Chess, not checkers...


----------



## workindad

If you have not already done so, DNA the child. It is cheap, painless, and private. Your wife does not need to participate. Spend a few minutes on google looking at paternity testing. I did it with mine, anyone can check.

Staying in a sham of a marriage where you are disrespected... is that the example you want to set for your child?

You can be divorced and be a great parent.

Only you can decide if you are going to force her to deal with the issue and attempt a real R, live in misery, or file and move on with your life.

The decision is yours and I hope you find peace.
WD


----------



## OpenEnded

For OP: Japan seems to have signed and ratified the Hague convention effective as of 4/1/2014.

Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Locke.Stratos

alone24 said:


> I was at a loss for words. So she's incredibly worried a friend is dating someone who maybe cheated on a different girl in high school, but it's fine for me to marry her, who cheated on, lied to, and manipulated me into marrying her.
> 
> Unbelievable!


*Unbelievable is right, what the f*** is wrong with you?*

You can't actually think that you can post here, write about your miserable f****** life and expect us to be okay with it.

Your life is bad dude, like a bucket of s*** bad. Your wife cheated on you and you're in a loveless marriage, just existing and are basically wasting your life away. That's f****** horrible. Why do you think that it is okay to live like this? 

I think you might be depressed. You're not even in pain, you're just miserable and that is f****** sad.

I believe that the time is one of the most precious resources allowed to us and you're pissing it away. I can't believe you're choosing to live like this and yes, this life you're continuing to live is a choice.

You're healthy, I'm assuming you're fully abled, in good health and have all your toes and fingers. You should be having fun and enjoying your life.

You don't love her and you love yourself even less. You probably won't leave once your child is grown and has moved out because you're already so beaten down that in the future you'll be nothing and have it less in you to leave. Heck wife might even cheat again.

Outside of raising your son when was the last time you did anything truly worthwhile or remarkable or even just had fun? What are your ambitions, aspirations? You seem to have none and that's a tragedy for someone so young. You've let your wife's infidelity destroy you and diminish your life.



alone24 said:


> She doesn't seem to have the ability to think long-term or see how her actions affect others.


She married you while withholding information about her fidelity so I'd say she does have the ability to think long-term.

Your wife cheated on you and you don't love her. It's pretty simple, you either divorce her or tell her how you feel and take active steps in repairing your relationship.

She doesn't care how it's affecting you, then you make her care. You just being unfeeling and not communicating about it would make anyone not care because you're not showing how it's affected you. Get angry, cry, scream, shout, kick her out, tell your friends and family, guarantee you that she'll care then. 

Also none of your dumb excuses and reasoning as to why you're continuing to stay married because the only answers are that you are weak and scared. If you hire a good lawyer then you won't get screwed. You could wind up with your house and primary custody. File for divorce and have her served, file under fraud because she misrepresented herself as a faithful partner.

If you're just going to continue to post here every now and then and b**** about how miserable your life is then f*** you.

Start exercising and going out, confide in your relatives or friends. Meet new people, get a hobby or do a sporting activity. Just do something, anything because this "life" you're living is so stupid and unnecessary.


----------



## jin

If the OPs wife is japanese then he has a legitimate fear of his wife taking his son away and not ever seeing him again. At least until he became an adult.

The Japanese have a wretched cultural practice where a mother can up and leave and shut a father out of a child life. 

The Hague convention is pretty useless as he would still need to petition through the legal system in Japan.


----------



## Q tip

MMSLP

Google it. Best thing you can do for yourself. 

Ignore this advice at your own peril.

She's good, very good. Spotted a beta orbiter and did him good.


----------



## Samus

You need to get the i don't give a fcvk attitude. I love my kids, but **** I don't give a fcvk, I am not staying with this woman. Sorry. I need to see my kid everyday sounding weak is what got you in this in the first place, less lovey dovey and more strength to overcome this sham of a marriage, grow a backbone man, you will see you kid, so what if you don't see him everyday, wait till he is older and you don't care to see his tween attitude LOL...anyways, staying for a kid is the worse reason.

Kids are so adorable when there young. Once they get older there still lovable but can be a total pain in the ass. Which means your going to be annoyed, pissed and probably ready to give up when he totally ignores you or sees how your treating his mom. Boys are very tight with Moms. Your wasting away your life. Leave the women, get joint custody, I know you can do it. 

You don't want to fight the fight, because I can't live without seeing my kid everyday comment, ugh I just threw up a little. I didn't throw up a little by the way because of your love for your child, but the sacrifices your making for your child is very dumb. Your hurting him by having a bad relationship with your wife, pretending that you love your wife is not the right way to act around your kid.

Next on the news at 6, Alone, murders his entire family because he went crazy. These are the most unhealthy relationships and the cause for murder/suicide. People like you that can't make tough decisions are an embarrassment to mankind.


----------



## alone24

Dogbert said:


> You said divorce is not an option because of your son. But what if she starts cheating again? Are you going to endure that until your son turns 18? Face it, you have no deal breakers that you are willing to enforce.


To be honest, you're right. I had one deal breaker - cheating - and she's already done that, so the relationship and marriage is dead as far as I'm concerned, and I really don't care what she does now (provided it doesn't affect my son). 

I have no intention of staying until my son is 18 though. I'm just staying long enough to ensure I get custody.


----------



## Dogbert

alone24 said:


> To be honest, you're right. I had one deal breaker - cheating - and she's already done that, so the relationship and marriage is dead as far as I'm concerned, and I really don't care what she does now (provided it doesn't affect my son).
> 
> I have no intention of staying until my son is 18 though. I'm just staying long enough to ensure I get custody.



Have you talked to a divorce attorney about how to get custody and at what age of the child you would have a better shot at getting it?


----------



## alone24

wmn1 said:


> Alone,
> 
> I am relatively new here. Since August. I find most of the posters on here to be spot on, despite disagreements with a few, they are all well intended. I know some can't stand me.
> 
> None-the-less, I notice your initial post is two years old. I am saddened to see you still going through issues after this long.
> 
> Your post this morning rang volumes to me that after 2 years, you still don't have peace, your wife is showing not much remorse but she imposes the values that your relationship has on others.
> I am sorry for the infidelity you have suffered
> 
> Several questions
> 
> 1) Are you sure she has been loyal throughout your marriage ?
> 2) Has she ever shown remorse for her actions and if so, how much ?
> 3) Do you feel her moral values are in line now or is she being practical with others and not you ?
> 4) What actions are you willing to take now to solidify things with your marriage ? or part with them ?


Thanks for your thoughtful post.

To answer your questions:

1. I don't think my wife has cheated since we got married. I'm not certain the one time she confessed to is the only time she cheated while we were dating/engaged, especially as a lot of this time was a long-distance relationship. 

2. She had shown no remorse for what she did. She has refused to acknowledge my pain or answer any questions about what she did. From the day after d-day she has threatened to leave if I mention her cheating or even act sad.

3. Her morals have not changed. She has always known what's right and wrong. She is incredibly selfish and thinks she can do whatever she likes. That hasn't changed.

4. I live with constant pain and anger, but I want to stay in the marriage for my son for as long as I can. So I would be willing to go to counselling or do anything to work on things with my wife. My wife is not interested in putting any effort into our relationship though.

And of course, I'm only interested in putting in effort until my son is old enough for me to leave. Even if my wife did everything right from here, it's too late. She's already proven how little she cares about me and I refuse to grow old with someone like that.


----------



## lordmayhem

alone24 said:


> Thanks for your thoughtful post.
> 
> To answer your questions:
> 
> 1. I don't think my wife has cheated since we got married. I'm not certain the one time she confessed to is the only time she cheated while we were dating/engaged, especially as a lot of this time was a long-distance relationship.
> 
> 2. She had shown no remorse for what she did. She has refused to acknowledge my pain or answer any questions about what she did. From the day after d-day she has threatened to leave if I mention her cheating or even act sad.
> 
> 3. Her morals have not changed. She has always known what's right and wrong. She is incredibly selfish and thinks she can do whatever she likes. That hasn't changed.
> 
> 4. I live with constant pain and anger, but I want to stay in the marriage for my son for as long as I can. So I would be willing to go to counselling or do anything to work on things with my wife. My wife is not interested in putting any effort into our relationship though.
> 
> And of course, I'm only interested in putting in effort until my son is old enough for me to leave. Even if my wife did everything right from here, it's too late. She's already proven how little she cares about me and I refuse to grow old with someone like that.


Ok. So how old does he have to be before you can leave? That's a long time to live in the hell of limbo.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

lordmayhem said:


> Ok. So how old does he have to be before you can leave? That's a long time to live in the hell of limbo.



He said he wont wait for him to turn 18, so my guess is 17 yrs.


----------



## bfree

I'm tempted to say something like the OP should pick up his son from school one day and just disappear. I'm tempted to say that after disappearing the OP should move to another country where it would not only be difficult to find them but that it would be difficult for the OP's wife to run off to Japan with their son. I'm tempted to say that the OP should find a good woman in that country and live a happy life raising the son in a happy stress free household. I'm tempted to say these things but I won't because they're "wrong."


----------



## vellocet

alone24 said:


> I have no intention of staying until my son is 18 though. I'm just staying long enough to ensure I get custody.


How are you going to get that unless the following happens:

-she agrees to give you custody
-she agrees to do 50/50
-she has a criminal record or it can be proven she is an unfit mother (and sorry to say, cheating doesn't make it so, should, but it doesn't)

Who knows, you may just get lucky and she doesn't go for custody. But I'm afraid if she wants it, unless you have something on her, she'll get it.


----------



## Tron

bfree said:


> I'm tempted to say something like the OP should pick up his son from school one day and just disappear. I'm tempted to say that after disappearing the OP should move to another country where it would not only be difficult to find them but that it would be difficult for the OP's wife to run off to Japan with their son. I'm tempted to say that the OP should find a good woman in that country and live a happy life raising the son in a happy stress free household. I'm tempted to say these things but I won't because they're "wrong."


Whew!

It's a good thing you didn't succumb to your temptations...
and say any of those things.  

But seriously, the legal way would be for the OP to find himself a position in country where the laws prevent his W from hauling the kid off to Japan, then set up residence and divorce her. Hint...US or maybe even Canada.


----------



## alone24

Locke.Stratos said:


> alone24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was at a loss for words. So she's incredibly worried a friend is dating someone who maybe cheated on a different girl in high school, but it's fine for me to marry her, who cheated on, lied to, and manipulated me into marrying her.
> 
> Unbelievable!
> 
> 
> 
> *Unbelievable is right, what the f*** is wrong with you?*
> 
> You can't actually think that you can post here, write about your miserable f****** life and expect us to be okay with it.
> 
> Your life is bad dude, like a bucket of s*** bad. Your wife cheated on you and you're in a loveless marriage, just existing and are basically wasting your life away. That's f****** horrible. Why do you think that it is okay to live like this?
> 
> I think you might be depressed. You're not even in pain, you're just miserable and that is f****** sad.
> 
> I believe that the time is one of the most precious resources allowed to us and you're pissing it away. I can't believe you're choosing to live like this and yes, this life you're continuing to live is a choice.
> 
> You're healthy, I'm assuming you're fully abled, in good health and have all your toes and fingers. You should be having fun and enjoying your life.
> 
> You don't love her and you love yourself even less. You probably won't leave once your child is grown and has moved out because you're already so beaten down that in the future you'll be nothing and have it less in you to leave. Heck wife might even cheat again.
> 
> Outside of raising your son when was the last time you did anything truly worthwhile or remarkable or even just had fun? What are your ambitions, aspirations? You seem to have none and that's a tragedy for someone so young. You've let your wife's infidelity destroy you and diminish your life.
> 
> 
> 
> alone24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She doesn't seem to have the ability to think long-term or see how her actions affect others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She married you while withholding information about her fidelity so I'd say she does have the ability to think long-term.
> 
> Your wife cheated on you and you don't love her. It's pretty simple, you either divorce her or tell her how you feel and take active steps in repairing your relationship.
> 
> She doesn't care how it's affecting you, then you make her care. You just being unfeeling and not communicating about it would make anyone not care because you're not showing how it's affected you. Get angry, cry, scream, shout, kick her out, tell your friends and family, guarantee you that she'll care then.
> 
> Also none of your dumb excuses and reasoning as to why you're continuing to stay married because the only answers are that you are weak and scared. If you hire a good lawyer then you won't get screwed. You could wind up with your house and primary custody. File for divorce and have her served, file under fraud because she misrepresented herself as a faithful partner.
> 
> If you're just going to continue to post here every now and then and b**** about how miserable your life is then f*** you.
> 
> Start exercising and going out, confide in your relatives or friends. Meet new people, get a hobby or do a sporting activity. Just do something, anything because this "life" you're living is so stupid and unnecessary.
Click to expand...

Locke, thanks for your post. It's given me a lot to think about. In response to some of the things you posted:

My life isn't bad. My marriage is bad. There's a big difference. I'm a very well-rounded person. I enjoy and am good at my job, I have great friends and family (parents and brothers), make enough money that my son can have whatever he wants/needs, somehow find time to play a bit of basketball each week, and most importantly get to spend lots of time with my son.

In fact, the way I feel is that I'm living the exact life I wanted, just with the wrong good person. 

I never needed my wife to make me happy and don't need her now, so will definitely leave when appropriate. I'm not beaten down, just at a loss as to how to manage this relationship.

I have tried to communicate to my wife how this has affected me. Her response has just been: "ok then, let's divorce". She refuses to discuss anything in relation to her cheating. 

Sadly, this reflects how she "discusses" everything. Her way or the highway.


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## catcalls

I think your wife has the ability to think long term, but as you say all her thinking is how to improve her life. Read Rollo's Rational Male blog to get a better understanding of her rationale.

From what your have written about your sex life, i suspect your wife has firmly put you in the 'beta bucks' category. She had sex with the other guy because she had a primal attraction towards him and dont believe for a single second that it was only the one time. You say your sex life is lacklustre and I think it is because she does not have the same attraction for you. It is just another household chore for her.

But when it came to marrying, she decided to marry you because you are a good provider. you can take a lot of abuse and she can dominate you. 

You need to make concrete plans. First of all, stop funding her frequent trips back to Japan. Just tell her there is no money. Is there a way for you to reduce your working hours and work part time. Tell her to get a job. She needs to experience some discomfort. everything is set in a plate for her. Reduce your standard of living. 
Yes she will threaten divorce and maybe go through with it. But i think she will try to win you back later even after intially going through the motions of divorce. because she needs you to have this life. 

Once you stop being afraid of her trump card, she has nothing else to fight with. stay steadfast and tell her your conditions to reconcile, like counselling and full disclosure. then when you son is a bit older, divorce her and dont look back


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## wmn1

alone24 said:


> Thanks for your thoughtful post.
> 
> To answer your questions:
> 
> 1. I don't think my wife has cheated since we got married. I'm not certain the one time she confessed to is the only time she cheated while we were dating/engaged, especially as a lot of this time was a long-distance relationship.
> 
> 2. She had shown no remorse for what she did. She has refused to acknowledge my pain or answer any questions about what she did. From the day after d-day she has threatened to leave if I mention her cheating or even act sad.
> 
> 3. Her morals have not changed. She has always known what's right and wrong. She is incredibly selfish and thinks she can do whatever she likes. That hasn't changed.
> 
> 4. I live with constant pain and anger, but I want to stay in the marriage for my son for as long as I can. So I would be willing to go to counselling or do anything to work on things with my wife. My wife is not interested in putting any effort into our relationship though.
> 
> And of course, I'm only interested in putting in effort until my son is old enough for me to leave. Even if my wife did everything right from here, it's too late. She's already proven how little she cares about me and I refuse to grow old with someone like that.


Thanks for the responses.

As said in a recent post, have you consulted an attorney to figure out what age that would be for your son ? 

This way, it would give you the ability to stage a gameplan and execute it. i.e. a three year plan or what have you ?

I agree with you, cheating is my deal breaker too.


I feel badly for your pain that you endure daily over this


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## manfromlamancha

Hi Alone24, sorry to have you here.

I have got to say that I have seen this before in Japanese women (not to say that they all behave like that). They tend to put personal security and well-being ahead of all other considerations. I worked in Japan for many years and got to know a little bit about them in the 1980's. My real issue is with you "wasting" your prime young years like this and it is very admirable that you are doing this for your son (a very mature way of thinking but soul destroying, nevertheless).

You should be enjoying these years as they should be remembered as the wonder years of family life and instead you are filled with resentment.

Cheaters in general tend to minimise their past transgressions and there is a strong possibility that she slept with him more than once. And probably didn't think much of it because in her mind, you two were not married (not sure what engagements mean in her culture). I do not really understand why she suddenly came clean with you but the chances are high that he was a potential replacement for you and she was "testing" the waters with sex being one of the tests. In the end she (in my opinion, clinically) chose you.

My question to you is even if you had not found out about the cheating, did you not detect a certain "lack of passion/emotion" in her in general ? I suspect that you would find this lacking in time anyway and would eventually split from her. So why did she really come clean ? I don't fully understand the "conscience bothering her" bit. Unless there is more to her than I perceive. How did you guys meet ? Why was she not pursuing Japanese men as many Japanese women do ?


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