# remove local laws against sex workers?



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

standing back and looking at this forum, what do we see:
Been married X years, and no sex, what do it do?
Wife/Husband says he is no longer sexually interested in me?
Should we start a threesome to rev up our married sex life?
and on and on.

What if there was a legal and clean way for a HD partner in a marriage get laid, while the LD partner was absolved of most of that "heavy lifting"?

I can see how a lot of spouses, even though they were LD would NOT give their spouse permission to see a sex workers.
But, i can also see a large number of LD spouses that are tired of their spouse pestering them for unwanted sex, see it as a real chore, and would LOVE to find a safe way for their partner to get laid. Especially if that marriage was pretty good and loving one except for no sex.

I have no statistics, but i bet the divorce rate, and the cheating rate, would plummet if you could just hire an escort for the night/weekend, and return monday morning all bright eyed and bushy tailed.

what say you?


----------



## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

i think you glued 4 topics together to make one 

i will take your first point about x years and no sex , this is a sexless relationship how this can be fixed I have no idea 
we have no info to go on so it all depends on the 2 people in the relationship but I see threesome or moresome out of the question if they are both not having sex with each other no point in looking for a extra player .

if your "Wife/Husband says he is no longer sexually interested in me? " 
i think you need to look at what you are to each-other i this case it looks like there is more missing than the sex ,

"Should we start a threesome to rev up our married sex life? "
for anyone thinking of threesome, swinging , open relationship they need to have very open book type life 
this is not something for people that have problems it is not a fix for a slow sex life , more like a wedge to drive the two apart more 
it is very much a life style and the better the 2 players know each other and there is no chance of one becoming jealous of the type things we get here 
one person sending messages on the phone or other things that can be see as one acting funny 


then we get to your point about high sex drive(HSD) low sex drive LSD 
this is like the first couple it all depends on the 2 people in the relationship
yes there are some people that one is not interested in sex anymore or not able 
or many reasons can bring a loving couple to find themselves in this one , 
it is up to the to people up to find what works for them , if that is one willingly letting the other find sex with an escort 
or pick up or what ever if it is agreed between the 2 people who are we to say they are wrong , if they are not goinging behind the back of the other


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> standing back and looking at this forum, what do we see:
> Been married X years, and no sex, what do it do?
> Wife/Husband says he is no longer sexually interested in me?
> Should we start a threesome to rev up our married sex life?
> ...


I think the divorce rate would rocket if spouses who didn't think they were getting enough sex suggested to their partner that they went out and had sex with prostitutes.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Oldest profession in the book…it ain’t going away. Might as well legalize and tax it instead of spending tax dollars to try to control it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ElwoodPDowd (Aug 25, 2021)

LD partner usually doesn't want sex (also maybe not so LD but doesn't want sex with partner), but doesn't want HD partner to have sex with anyone.
It's all about control.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> standing back and looking at this forum, what do we see:
> Been married X years, and no sex, what do it do?
> Wife/Husband says he is no longer sexually interested in me?
> Should we start a threesome to rev up our married sex life?
> ...


Sure the idea would never fly with the LD partner but I like it! Some European countires already have legalized prostituion.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

I don’t get it, what would be the point?
Even if an LD partner was willing to go along with such an arrangement, why would it be acceptable to the HD partner?

So your if wife thinks so little of you that she doesn’t mind letting you have sex with prostitutes, as long as she doesn’t have to touch you - that sounds like a good solution?

I expect to have physical and sexual intimacy with my wife and I expect her to engage in that willingly and enthusiastically because she is attracted to me and desires me. Without that, it’s not a marriage that I would be interested in keeping, regardless of how many hookers I get to ****.

if I were to lose that dynamic from my marriage, I would work to build it back, but if unsuccessful I’d leave the marriage.
I guess I just have standards and expectations for my marriage and wouldn’t tolerate a lack of physical/sexual intimacy long term.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> I don’t get it, what would be the point?
> Even if an LD partner was willing to go along with such an arrangement, why would it be acceptable to the HD partner?
> 
> So your if wife thinks so little of you that she doesn’t mind letting you have sex with prostitutes, as long as she doesn’t have to touch you - that sounds like a good solution?
> ...


That's the realistic and logical way to approach it...and I agree...

That being said, a lot of guys(and I know several), have decided that rather than blow up their lives and turn their world upside down, they keep the wife at home and figure out the rest on the street...Of course that doesn't mean they look for the wife's approval or even tell her what he's doing....

There is a guy that I have known for years....He is a very successful and wealthy guy and if you met him you would think he has it all together both at home and at work....His deal is that for more than a decade, he has been seeing a very high end escorts several times a month.. The current one is drop dead gorgeous, 10/10...late 20s... Even though it costs him a fair amount to maintain this relationship, according to him it would still amount to a fraction of what a divorce would cost him...I don't know what the deal is sexually between him and his wife, but my guess it just "went away" over time....

I say forget about making prostitution legal for this purpose....Instead make it easier to get out of marriages if things aren't going well...Too many people are living miserable lives for this reason alone....It doesn't have to be this way, either...No one should be punished so severely for wanting out or a marriage...


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> That's the realistic and logical way to approach it...and I agree...
> 
> That being said, a lot of guys(and I know several), have decided that rather than blow up their lives and turn their world upside down, they keep the wife at home and figure out the rest on the street...Of course that doesn't mean they look for the wife's approval or even tell her what he's doing....
> 
> ...


I get the concept but I just don’t think I could live that way. I’d rather burn it down and live free.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ElwoodPDowd said:


> LD partner usually doesn't want sex (also maybe not so LD but doesn't want sex with partner), but doesn't want HD partner to have sex with anyone.
> It's all about control.


It's often not that black and white.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Talker67 said:


> standing back and looking at this forum, what do we see:
> Been married X years, and no sex, what do it do?
> Wife/Husband says he is no longer sexually interested in me?
> Should we start a threesome to rev up our married sex life?
> ...


Men are as likely to be the spouse who choses to make the marriage sexless. So I guess with your idea, it would be good for women whose husbands ignore them sexually, they women could just go out and get sex where they choose.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Talker67 said:


> standing back and looking at this forum, what do we see:
> Been married X years, and no sex, what do it do?
> Wife/Husband says he is no longer sexually interested in me?
> Should we start a threesome to rev up our married sex life?
> ...


It depends on the definition of marriage between the two people. To me marriage is a commitment to each other and to forming a family unit.

If one or both don't feel that way, then sure why not. However, I would wager that divorce rates in the parts of Nevada where brothels are legal is probably not much different than in other parts of the US. 

There are lots of places in the world where brothels are legal and prostitution is not a crime. 

There are also probably lots of places in the world where "marriage" is an arranged situation that is designed about inheritance, money, and family status. In those places sex with prostitutes or a mistress is probably not as big a deal.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Men are as likely to be the spouse who choses to make the marriage sexless. So I guess with your idea, it would be good for women whose husbands ignore them sexually, they women could just go out and get sex where they choose.


Well there are lots of stories about the rich wife and the pool boy, gardener, etc.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

All one has to do is peruse boards like these and others to see what is usually the main issue with most marriages and the main problem....

Sex....

One person loses interest in the other, one loses drive, one no longer finds the other attractive, whatever....Its very rare that two people remain on the same page for an entire lifetime when it comes to this topic...

So what do you do? 

-You can't get it from someone else..
-You can't leave because the kids will be ruined and you will look like a horrible person for leaving for that reason
-you can't masturbate or/and use pornography, because that is a sin, hurts the feelings of the other, whatever...

So there you are....driving in to work and wondering how you can figure your way out of this mess without choosing options like facing the lion, the bear or the tiger.. 😂


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I think the divorce rate would rocket if spouses who didn't think they were getting enough sex suggested to their partner that they went out and had sex with prostitutes.


that is exactly what i am questioning. would the divorce rate skyrocket, or plummet?


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

ElwoodPDowd said:


> LD partner usually doesn't want sex (also maybe not so LD but doesn't want sex with partner), but doesn't want HD partner to have sex with anyone.
> It's all about control.


is that EVERY LD partner that wants to control, or only maybe half of them?


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Men are as likely to be the spouse who choses to make the marriage sexless.


The figures I have seen cited over and over are that only 20% of women are sexual pursuers/HD relative to their male partner.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Men are as likely to be the spouse who choses to make the marriage sexless. So I guess with your idea, it would be good for women whose husbands ignore them sexually, they women could just go out and get sex where they choose.


well yeah, of course. women can hire escorts too!


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

DudeInProgress said:


> So your if wife thinks so little of you that she doesn’t mind letting you have sex with prostitutes, as long as she doesn’t have to touch you - that sounds like a good solution?


the answer is obvious. you together own a house, are bringing up kids, have retirement funds/stocks/cash. and the two of you DO get along fine, do things together, go on trips, etc. you ust do not have sex anymore. Pragmatic people would say: "don't overturn that whole applecart if a fling with a hooker 3 times a month can hold it all together!"


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> The figures I have seen cited over and over are that only 20% of women are sexual pursuers/HD relative to their male partner.



Id probably agree with those figures, but in many cases, its not HD vs LD....Both can be HD, but if one loses interest in the other, then the end result winds up being the same....One person is left holding the bag...


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> Id probably agree with those figures, but in many cases, its not HD vs LD....Both can be HD, but if one loses interest in the other, then the end result winds up being the same....One person is left holding the bag...


I suppose, in that case the man would still report being the pursuer.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I think sex work needs to be legal, but not for the sake a sexless marriages. It would put a huge dent in human trafficking if it were all done in the light of day. 

As far as a solution for a sexless marriage, I don't think so. In my view, if you aren't having sex you really aren't married. You may be roommates, co-parents, partners in a contractual agreement, but you aren't a married couple. Going to sex workers s a solution isn't keeping a marriage together, it is keeping a contract in place.


----------



## ElwoodPDowd (Aug 25, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Going to sex workers s a solution isn't keeping a marriage together, it is keeping a contract in place.


...... and maybe a bit of fun.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Id probably agree with those figures, but in many cases, its not HD vs LD....Both can be HD, but if one loses interest in the other, then the end result winds up being the same....One person is left holding the bag...


I find the whole HD/LD thing a bit of a joke. I know there are exceptions, but I think in general all humans are sexual. I completely believe that with the right partner that LD person could look like a sexual animal. When they are called LD I think they just aren't that attracted to the person they are having sex with.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ElwoodPDowd said:


> ...... and maybe a bit of fun.


Fun for someone that puts no value in a monogamous relationship.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

I think it'd have more effect on the dating market than for married couples.


----------



## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Men are as likely to be the spouse who choses to make the marriage sexless. So I guess with your idea, it would be good for women whose husbands ignore them sexually, they women could just go out and get sex where they choose.


What's good for the goose. It should work both ways if it works one.
I personally would be insulted to the point of leaving if my wife suggested this as being how I get my needs met but it may work for some people.
I have a hard time seeing the ego's of most men being able to take sending their wives to a sex worker. Almost all men are driven almost purely by ego and it would be an absolute confirmation that he couldn't "get the job done" which would obliterate most men.


----------



## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Al_Bundy said:


> I think it'd have more effect on the dating market than for married couples.


Unfortunately I believe this to be incorrect.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ElwoodPDowd said:


> ...... and maybe a bit of fun.


Depends on what you call fun.


----------



## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> Depends on what you call fun.


I thought I just read he put you on ignore? Either way, most men line up pretty well on what they call fun in this instance.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Talker67 said:


> the answer is obvious. you together own a house, are bringing up kids, have retirement funds/stocks/cash. and the two of you DO get along fine, do things together, go on trips, etc. you ust do not have sex anymore. Pragmatic people would say: "don't overturn that whole applecart if a fling with a hooker 3 times a month can hold it all together!"


Couple of times would do me...


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

uphillbattle said:


> What's good for the goose. It should work both ways if it works one.
> I personally would be insulted to the point of leaving if my wife suggested this as being how I get my needs met but it may work for some people.
> I have a hard time seeing the ego's of most men being able to take sending their wives to a sex worker. Almost all men are driven almost purely by ego and it would be an absolute confirmation that he couldn't "get the job done" which would obliterate most men.


well there are subsets of the "working person" in this context.

lets say wife is LD, can not be bothered to get you laid. BUT she has a lonely best friend who can not find a reliable steady lover. bingo, she sets you both up on a "date", and everyone has a good time..


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Fun for someone that puts no value in a monogamous relationship.


the working theory here is: IF your LD spouse refuses to have sex with you, they already broke the terms of the monogamous marriage contract.

Kid of like you hired a contractor to put a new roof on your house, and paid a deposit. He stripped the old shingles off, and did the front side of the roof, but the back side is bare plywood, and you have not seen him for weeks....you are not going to look for a new contractor to finish the job?


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Couple of times would do me...


If you are getting ZERO sex, then the only thing on your mind is "how can i get laid?"

If you can get laid even just once a month, that insane desire to mate gets quelled to the point that you can function again.


----------



## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Talker67 said:


> well there are subsets of the "working person" in this context.
> 
> lets say wife is LD, can not be bothered to get you laid. BUT she has a lonely best friend who can not find a reliable steady lover. bingo, she sets you both up on a "date", and everyone has a good time..


NO, if she prefers I find that connection somewhere else then we are done. It just tells me she can't be bothered. I can get laid on my own without her help. The point is, I married HER because that is who I wanted to be with.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

uphillbattle said:


> NO, if she prefers I find that connection somewhere else then we are done. It just tells me she can't be bothered. I can get laid on my own without her help. The point is, I married HER because that is who I wanted to be with.


well that is you in your particular set of circumstances.
You can't project YOUR values on everyone else in the world!

there are plenty of others who want to keep the marriage, and would be willing to find sex somewhere else (as a last resort).


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I find the whole HD/LD thing a bit of a joke. I know there are exceptions, but I think in general all humans are sexual. I completely believe that with the right partner that LD person could look like a sexual animal. When they are called LD I think they just aren't that attracted to the person they are having sex with.


Disagree.....well....I do agree that in those cases(loss of attraction) then it would be "situational" but.....

I know guys that have absolutely NO interest in women...They aren't gay, they just don't have any interest....You could march the hottest woman with the hottest body right in front of them and they'd rather look at an old car or sporting event instead.....Maybe they had interest at one time in their lives, but for now, that factory is closed...

While I never had experience or been with any, I have no doubt that there are plenty of women(more than men probably), that have absolutely no interest in men or sex...

Sexual attraction and libido/drive involve a complex combination of physiological and mental components....Upset that and it's easy to see how that can go away....Lets face it..its not like food, water or air.....no one needs to get laid to live/survive....


----------



## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Talker67 said:


> well that is you in your particular set of circumstances.
> You can't project YOUR values on everyone else in the world!
> 
> there are plenty of others who want to keep the marriage, and would be willing to find sex somewhere else (as a last resort).


Absolutely. Everybody is different, what I find unacceptable someone can find to be a preference. I just can't see it being any different than being married to a sibling. But for me it's as much about a connection with my wife as anything else.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> well there are subsets of the "working person" in this context.
> 
> lets say wife is LD, can not be bothered to get you laid. BUT she has a lonely best friend who can not find a reliable steady lover. bingo, she sets you both up on a "date", and everyone has a good time..


Your scenario assumes the lonely best friend is looking only for sex, not very likely. Most people are looking for a relationship, so in this scenario the wife is basically giving her husband away to another woman. She just sent him to a woman looking for sex and a relationship, which checks all the boxes for him, now he is gone. A true sex worker on the other hand is only interested in the business transaction.



Talker67 said:


> the working theory here is: IF your LD spouse refuses to have sex with you, they already broke the terms of the monogamous marriage contract.
> 
> Kid of like you hired a contractor to put a new roof on your house, and paid a deposit. He stripped the old shingles off, and did the front side of the roof, but the back side is bare plywood, and you have not seen him for weeks....you are not going to look for a new contractor to finish the job?


I don't really put much stock in the idea of a LD spouse. I think they are only LD with you, their spouse, at that moment in time and for whatever reason. Unless they were sexless before you married, they like almost all humans, are sexual beings. No sex is a sign of something else wrong in the marriage. Going to a sex worker or other source of sex outside your marriage is like putting a band aid on a gapping machete wound.


----------



## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

BigDaddyNY said:


> No sex is a sign of something else wrong in the marriage.


Or wrong with the person with no drive. Weather it be mental or physical. Either way something needs to be addressed.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Disagree.....well....I do agree that in those cases(loss of attraction) then it would be "situational" but.....
> 
> I know guys that have absolutely NO interest in women...They aren't gay, they just don't have any interest....You could march the hottest woman with the hottest body right in front of them and they'd rather look at an old car or sporting event instead.....Maybe they had interest at one time in their lives, but for now, that factory is closed...
> 
> ...


Yes, there are people with little or no interest, but they aren't getting married or certainly have no business getting married, which we all know implies a sexual relationship. Those guys you know with NO interest in women aren't getting into relationships, so that isn't who we are talking about here. Unless they became like that after getting married, in which case the marriage is over. In that case the wife should be free to have sex with others. The original contract of marriage has been broken. Are any of those guys you know married or in an LTR?


----------



## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

how many of the people that look at porn would date a porn star or even wed one ,


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

uphillbattle said:


> Or wrong with the person with no drive. Weather it be mental or physical. Either way something needs to be addressed.


Yes I agree. Being with the wrong person certainly qualifies as something wrong in the marriage. I am assuming that the physical attraction was there at some point. So even if now one or both spouses decide they are with the "wrong" person and don't want sex anymore I would bet something broke in the marriage prior to that point. And again, just going outside of the marriage to get sex doesn't seem like the best or appropriate action.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Yes, there are people with little or no interest, but they aren't getting married or certainly have no business getting married, which we all know implies a sexual relationship. Those guys you know with NO interest in women aren't getting into relationships, so that isn't who we are talking about here. Unless they became like that after getting married, in which case the marriage is over. In that case the wife should be free to have sex with others. The original contract of marriage has been broken. *Are any of those guys you know married or in an LTR?*


ALL of them are married.....

And who knows? Maybe their wives checked out years ago....

My mother had 3 sisters...All of them were/are very attractive....Every one of them was divorced widowed in their late 30's and early 40's, yet none of them ever went on a date, let alone marry after their husbands were gone....What does that say?? 

I just don't believe it's as cut and dried as you think it is....I am HD and always have been....It would be easy for me to believe what you are saying, but I know it's just not the case....For some people, its just not an essential human need...


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> how many of the people that look at porn would date a porn star or even wed one ,


Yeah that would be tough. I recently read an article about Riley Reid getting engaged. If you don't know, she is one of the top porn stars. She has done nearly 900 movies, think about that for a minute. She is well known for gang bangs, more than one man in any given hole at at time, just some crazy and depraved stuff. I realize that it is her job, but I don't know how you can set that aside far enough to fall in love with her and marry her.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> ALL of them are married.....
> 
> And who knows? Maybe their wives checked out years ago....
> 
> ...


They were really good at masturbating? LOL

I know what you are saying. I only have my life experience to pull from and it a total lack of interest in sex seems so foreign. Everyone around me while growing up, including my parents, were very obviously attracted to their partners. I have to believe that the people that truly have no interest in sex are the exception, not the rule. 

So why are those guys even married anymore? Maybe just the easiest thing to do? And do you really know they have no sexual desire? None of these guys are getting sexual release from anywhere, even masturbating?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

uphillbattle said:


> I thought I just read he put you on ignore? Either way, most men line up pretty well on what they call fun in this instance.


They really don't. Many men want more from life than a casual hook up with any old woman of any age.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

frenchpaddy said:


> how many of the people that look at porn would date a porn star or even wed one ,


Depends....which porn star?


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> ALL of them are married.....
> 
> And who knows? Maybe their wives checked out years ago....
> 
> ...


Something along those same lines made me think of my ex and the time I heard her two sisters say they used sex as a "reward" for their husbands and to get things from them and each could hold out a long time without it to get what they wanted. Seems like LD taking advantage of HD to me.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

uphillbattle said:


> Unfortunately I believe this to be incorrect.


Economics. Increased competition and one could argue lower costs as well.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Your scenario assumes the lonely best friend is looking only for sex, not very likely. Most people are looking for a relationship, so in this scenario the wife is basically giving her husband away to another woman. She just sent him to a woman looking for sex and a relationship, which checks all the boxes for him, now he is gone. A true sex worker on the other hand is only interested in the business transaction.


by friend, i assumed her friend was a trustworthy one. one she know can keep the sexual relation a non-romantic one. 

come one, this is not rocket science. Someone is horny and needs to get laid, hook them up with someone else you now that is horny and needs to get laid. then for the next two weeks, they both of those people are happy/contented, and the fixer upper person does not have to put out at all!


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

frenchpaddy said:


> how many of the people that look at porn would date a porn star or even wed one ,


how many would screw one, and then move on, completely satisfied for the time being?


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> They really don't. Many men want more from life than a casual hook up with any old woman of any age.


woah there.
we are talking people in a long term marriage, who ONLY NEED a little side action sex. a casual hook up is all they want. wham bam thankyou ma'am.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> by friend, i assumed her friend was a trustworthy one. one she know can keep the sexual relation a non-romantic one.
> 
> come one, this is not rocket science. Someone is horny and needs to get laid, hook them up with someone else you now that is horny and needs to get laid. then for the next two weeks, they both of those people are happy/contented, and the fixer upper person does not have to put out at all!


I think you are living in a fantasy land. How many women are looking for just a sexual hookup? You said she was lonely, not horny. ONS, or two week fling, does not fix lonely. She could get a ONS quite easily without her friend loaning out the husband for stud services. Not to mention how many apparently trustworthy friends end up on one or both sides of many affairs? Also, what happens after those two weeks? Miss lonely goes back home and just forgets about her new stud?

You are right, it isn't rocket science, it is far more complicated. Rocket science comes down to math, chemistry and physics, all fairly predictable things. However, the intricacies of human sexuality and emotions on the other hand are something that still eludes us.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> They were really good at masturbating? LOL
> 
> I know what you are saying. I only have my life experience to pull from and it a total lack of interest in sex seems so foreign. Everyone around me while growing up, including my parents, were very obviously attracted to their partners. I have to believe that the people that truly have no interest in sex are the exception, not the rule.
> 
> *So why are those guys even married anymore? *Maybe just the easiest thing to do? And do you really know they have no sexual desire? None of these guys are getting sexual release from anywhere, even masturbating?


Ok.....let me give you an example....and it can't be as clear as this....

This particular group of friends of mine are all interested in a particular hobby, we are all lifelong friends and do a lot of stuff together...We often go have a bite to eat and have some laughs, you never hear any of them talking of women...Never ...The waitress could be topless and they wouldn't make a fuss about any of it....The ship sailed...or maybe it barely left the port...who knows.? 

There was another instance that really confirmed it....We were all at an outdoor event and it was the summer...A woman walked by and even a guy like Catholic Dad or the Pope himself, would have been picking his tongue off the floor...Daisy Duke shorts...heels, rocking body...crop top with her tits barely contained....She walked by all of us and out of the eight of us that were there only me and one other guy took notice.....😂

These guys stay married because as long as life isn't shytty at home and their wives aren't annoying AF, then they would have rocks in their heads for leaving....It would make no sense....

In some cases I think these folks lead more relaxed and peaceful lives...Get fat and old...enjoy the other things in life....I can say that as a younger guy my libido was relentless, like a giant gorilla on my shoulder whispering in my ear...Now...it's still there, but I can put the gorilla in a closet and live my life....Take him out when the conditions are right for me....Better this way...🙃

That being said, the woman in the testosterone supplement ad on this site(directly to the right of this text) with the white top and beautiful breasts is driving me up a wall.... 😂


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> That being said, the woman in the testosterone supplement ad on this site(directly to the right of this text) with the white top and beautiful breasts is driving me up a wall.... 😂


Wait! WHAT LADY to the right of this text????

oh yeah, i have my ad blocker on. wait a minute.

yeah, i am seeing the PINK FEVER lady right now.
good idea! Thanks!


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Yeah that would be tough. I recently read an article about Riley Reid getting engaged. If you don't know, she is one of the top porn stars. She has done nearly 900 movies, think about that for a minute. She is well known for gang bangs, more than one man in any given hole at at time, just some crazy and depraved stuff. I realize that it is her job, but I don't know how you can set that aside far enough to fall in love with her and marry her.


Sorry, but wouldn't even *touch* someone like that. 900 movies?!? Would make me want to puke. Of course Linda Boreman (aka Linda Lovelace ) was married twice. So at least two men didn't care about her having had a lot of other men. Of course she later said her first husband forced her into that business, so biggest mistake of her life was meeting him. 

IMO all of these women are victims.

And honestly while know it borders on a t/j,

I believe most "working" women are also victims, maybe forced into that trade as runaways or kidnap victims or came from a broken home or abusive father. 

I do not support either the porn industry, the strip clubs, or the sex "worker" industry. Always believe every one of those poor women were once someone's sweet baby girl. A lot of *very bad people* making a lot of money from all of it.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> standing back and looking at this forum, what do we see:
> Been married X years, and no sex, what do it do?
> Wife/Husband says he is no longer sexually interested in me?
> Should we start a threesome to rev up our married sex life?
> ...


It’d devastate the children from all the broken homes that would result.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Sorry, but wouldn't even *touch* someone like that. 900 movies?!? Would make me want to puke. Of course Linda Boreman (aka Linda Lovelace ) was married twice. So at least two men didn't care about her having had a lot of other men. Of course she later said her first husband forced her into that business, so biggest mistake of her life was meeting him.
> 
> IMO all of these women are victims.
> 
> ...


Her new husband is "proud" of what she does. okay, to each his own.

No doubt some are victims, but not all. Some have gotten very rich from the porn business. Riley Reid bought a $5M house when she got married.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

When that's going to backfire is when the LD wife starts paying gigolos to bang her just to see what that's like.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> Depends on what you call fun.


When it stops being fun, you aren't married any more. Just in a contractual agreement to pay your taxes together. Ask me how I know.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> It’d devastate the children from all the broken homes that would result.


someone once said they do not do DNA tests on newborn babies, as fully 1/3 would not be of the father on the birth certificaate!


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> woah there.
> we are talking people in a long term marriage, who ONLY NEED a little side action sex. a casual hook up is all they want. wham bam thankyou ma'am.


No one needs it, they want it. Thankfully a lot of people are faithful.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> someone once said they do not do DNA tests on newborn babies, as fully 1/3 would not be of the father on the birth certificaate!


Think about that number for a minute and you will realize how ridiculous that number is. 33 out of every 100 kids has the wrong father on the BC. You have to be smarter than that.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> someone once said they do not do DNA tests on newborn babies, as fully 1/3 would not be of the father on the birth certificaate!


They can't possibly know that unless they DNA test every single baby.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> When it stops being fun, you aren't married any more. Just in a contractual agreement to pay your taxes together. Ask me how I know.


I was meaning what some here were describing as fun, having casual sex outside the marriage.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Think about that number for a minute and you will realize how ridiculous that number is. 33 out of every 100 kids has the wrong father on the BC. You have to be smarter than that.


This could actually be tested by one of the genealogy sites that tests people who send in DNA samples to determine their ancestry. Surely some grad student has done a thesis on the subject, believe will do a little investigation. 3-4% I could believe, but 33% is a little much. I mean in an average hospital there would have been a lot of families wondering why the new baby looked like the milkman lol.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> This could actually be tested by one of the genealogy sites that tests people who send in DNA samples to determine their ancestry. Surely some grad student has done a thesis on the subject, believe will do a little investigation. 3-4% I could believe, but 33% is a little much. I mean in an average hospital there would have been a lot of families wondering why the new baby looked like the milkman lol.


DNA testing has been funny. My mom is a conspiracy nutbag and she always claimed some crazy stuff in her blood and of course would never get DNA tested. Well my brother sent his out and my dad’s half was the same as my dad. Motherhood isn’t in question unless you’re switched at birth.

No nefarious DNA in there.

Did she drop the conspiracy? No! Hahahah…


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> the answer is obvious. you together own a house, are bringing up kids, have retirement funds/stocks/cash. and the two of you DO get along fine, do things together, go on trips, etc. you ust do not have sex anymore. Pragmatic people would say: "don't overturn that whole applecart if a fling with a hooker 3 times a month can hold it all together!"


I understand the pragmatics. I’m just not interested in being married to, and living a life with, a woman who doesn’t want me and isn’t interested in being sexually intimate with me.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> DNA testing has been funny. My mom is a conspiracy nutbag and she always claimed some crazy stuff in her blood and of course would never get DNA tested. Well my brother sent his out and my dad’s half was the same as my dad. Motherhood isn’t in question unless you’re switched at birth.
> 
> No nefarious DNA in there.
> 
> Did she drop the conspiracy? No! Hahahah…


An article in Atlantic says:
"in graduate school, genetics students typically are taught that 5 to 15 percent of the men on birth certificates are not the biological fathers of their children. In other words, as many as one of every seven men who proudly carry their newborn children out of a hospital could be a cuckold."


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

As to the original question, "remove local laws against sex workers" YES

But first make pimping which is the treating of humans like livestock a much more serious offense.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think sex work needs to be legal, but not for the sake a sexless marriages. It would put a huge dent in human trafficking if it were all done in the light of day.
> 
> As far as a solution for a sexless marriage, I don't think so. In my view, if you aren't having sex you really aren't married. You may be roommates, co-parents, partners in a contractual agreement, but you aren't a married couple. Going to sex workers s a solution isn't keeping a marriage together, it is keeping a contract in place.


There are EU Countries where prostitution is legal and there is human trafficing of women from eastern Europe and Africa. As such, I am unsure of how to stop human trafficing, when the money from prostitution is so attractive to criminals. Criminal organizations are into making lots of money. When they start and monopolize a "market" and that market becomes legal, they often will try to gain legitimacy by continuing to run the business. An example was the crime families Nevada casino business operations during the early years of Las Vegas. Yes, the casinos are now run by "respected" corporations, but there was a time.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Talker67 said:


> the working theory here is: IF your LD spouse refuses to have sex with you, they already broke the terms of the monogamous marriage contract.
> 
> Kid of like you hired a contractor to put a new roof on your house, and paid a deposit. He stripped the old shingles off, and did the front side of the roof, but the back side is bare plywood, and you have not seen him for weeks....you are not going to look for a new contractor to finish the job?


A large part of this has to do with honesty. If a person sneaks around and cheats with anyone, to include a prostitute, then it's not ok. If on the other hand the two spouses discuss it and they both agree then go for it I guess.

Both spouses have the right to know what's going on in their life and to decide what they will and will not put up with. For one thing, cheating often leads to problems like STD's, and unwanted pregnancy, etc. 

Encouraging people to cheat on their spouse is pretty disgusting really.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rus47 said:


> An article in Atlantic says:
> "in graduate school, genetics students typically are taught that 5 to 15 percent of the men on birth certificates are not the biological fathers of their children. In other words, as many as one of every seven men who proudly carry their newborn children out of a hospital could be a cuckold."


So the article says gives several very different numbers:

5% to 16%
2%
30%
Seems that it might be based on where they live.

_Non-paternity rates appear to be substantially lower in some populations. The Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation, which is based in Salt Lake City, now has a genetic and genealogical database covering almost 100,000 volunteers, with an overrepresentation of people interested in genealogy. *The non-paternity rate for a representative sample of its father-son pairs is less than 2 percent*. But other reputed non-paternity rates are higher than the canonical numbers. One unpublished study of blood groups in a town in southeastern England indicated that *30 percent of the town’s husbands could not have been the biological fathers of their children*. _​
Who’s Your Daddy? - The Atlantic


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> A large part of this has to do with* honesty*. *If a person sneaks around and cheats with anyone, to include a prostitute, then it's not ok.* If on the other hand the two spouses discuss it and they both agree then go for it I guess.
> 
> Both spouses have the right to know what's going on in their life and to decide what they will and will not put up with. For one thing, *cheating often leads to problems like STD's*, and unwanted pregnancy, etc.
> 
> Encouraging people to cheat on their spouse is pretty disgusting really.


IMO, the STD issue is the elephant in the room. Those advocating for relationship with multiple partners, especially including a partner who in turn is intimate with multiple (often random) partners like a prostitute ignore the risks. The person being cheated on has no idea their life is being risked by the spouse who swore an oath to be faithful. Unless the spouses have STD testing after *every* encounter outside the marriage, how can they know they are safe?

In places where prostitution was legalized, routine testing/examination of prostitutes for STDs was often a requirement. Recall reading that prostitutes in Dawson City, YT of 1897 were required to be examined monthly. Those who failed were removed from the red light district ( a large part of the town ). The "theory" being that johns patronizing the red light district would be safe from getting infected. Of course, since the johns weren't being tested monthly, not sure how that works.

Bottom line, if a person isn't having their needs met in a marriage, divorce is the only ethical answer IMO. Cheating with anyone including an "escort" is not ethical.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Talker67 said:


> standing back and looking at this forum, what do we see:
> Been married X years, and no sex, what do it do?
> Wife/Husband says he is no longer sexually interested in me?
> Should we start a threesome to rev up our married sex life?
> ...


I think New Zealand's legal approach to sex work is terrific and would like to see their approach adopted widely.

*"The New Zealand Model

Sex work is decriminalised in Aotearoa*

It is not against the law to work as a sex worker or operate a brothel, nor is it against the law to pay for sexual services. However, it is against the law for any third party to facilitate anyone _under the age of 18_ into sex work. It is also illegal to do sex work if you are visiting New Zealand on a temporary visa. These issues are discussed below.

New Zealand is the only country in the world with a law which aims to uphold the human rights of sex workers and to decriminalise prostitution. This country’s decriminalised approach is known as_ The New Zealand Model."_

...

On the idea that married people should be free to seek sex elsewhere, if ones marital sex life is insufficient for ones desires. That is up for negotiation with the parties involved. So some people would be fine with it, while others wouldn't be.

That said in my opinion I feel that if anyone finds themselves in a sexual relationship with a person/s who, unilaterally withdraw sex or alternatively diminishes it significantly going forward. They should feel free to meet any sexual shortfalls with others as they please.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

frenchpaddy said:


> how many of the people that look at porn would date a porn star or even wed one ,


I would.

And although it isn't exactly the same thing, I had no problem being in an ongoing sexual relationship with a former sex worker, who was a young university student at the time.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

_


EleGirl said:



If you have read, heard or watched anything on this question, you will have encountered many estimates, from *9%** to more than 30%. *The idea that almost one in three people might be the result of what we biologists rather matter-of-factly call “extra-pair copulations” titillates and horrifies in equal measure.[/QUOTE









What are the chances that your dad isn't your father?


How confident are you that the man you call dad is really your biological father? If you believe some of the most commonly-quoted figures, you could be forgiven for not being very confident at all. But…




theconversation.com





Click to expand...

_first one that came up on google for me!

so lets say it is 15%. that is almost 1 in 5 women had sex out of the marriage, and were devious enough to let the man think it was their child.

So if you are married to those women, and the sex life is waning, what are the odds she is already screwing someone else? (pretty much 100%). Or that she would gladly let you use a hooker instead of her? (highly likely since she did the same for herself).


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

hamadryad said:


> This particular group of friends of mine are all interested in a particular hobby, we are all lifelong friends and do a lot of stuff together...We often go have a bite to eat and have some laughs, you never hear any of them talking of women...Never ...The waitress could be topless and they wouldn't make a fuss about any of it....The ship sailed...or maybe it barely left the port...who knows.?
> 
> There was another instance that really confirmed it....We were all at an outdoor event and it was the summer...A woman walked by and even a guy like Catholic Dad or the Pope himself, would have been picking his tongue off the floor...Daisy Duke shorts...heels, rocking body...crop top with her tits barely contained....She walked by all of us and out of the eight of us that were there only me and one other guy took notice.....😂


To be fair, it is possible that one or more of them do actually enjoy a terrific sex life, if all you are basing this on is there reaction to attractive women.

For example throughout my adult life, in person with male friends I have never been particularly open about my sex life or mentioned when I find different women attractive. Plus when I enjoy the sight of a passing woman, I am certainly not effusive in my reaction. In fact I seldom ever turn my head, since I feel it is being crass. So I am happy to enjoy such views briefly, without any fanfare.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Rus47 said:


> I believe most "working" women are also victims, maybe forced into that trade as runaways or kidnap victims or came from a broken home or abusive father.


I don't doubt that is true, yet it certainly isn't in all cases. From experience with my third longest sexual relationship partner. She was a blonde university student, who looked like Renée Zellweger in the movie Empire Records.

And before I met her she had previously done some sex work in Japan, when she was there on a student visa. She started out doing hostess work, which then led to her choosing to do some sex work. Being blonde and pretty she was popular with her Japanese clients.

Anyway she also related to me that knew what she was doing, enjoyed the extra money and told me she had fun. She also learnt some things along the way, and found some were good at sex and she even started dating one of them.

That said she didn't come from a broken home, she thought her father was cool, she wasn't kidnapped, or a runaway. She could also speak multiple languages, was bright, cool, sexy, and fun, plus she did well with her life going forward.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

if you just look at the massive proliferation of sex workers online at OnlyFans....one can tell that sex workers come from all walks of life. are some abused or exploited? Sure!
Are some taking advantage of YOU, controlling the shots, and making a **** ton of money off of you? ABSOLUTELY. 

And how many lonely moms and married women sneak off to their onlyfans page to meet new guys for pay?

it is a complicated business. to simply dismiss it off-hand as exploitive is not correct.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Personal said:


> To be fair, it is possible that one or more of them do actually enjoy a terrific sex life, if all you are basing this on is there reaction to attractive women.
> 
> For example throughout my adult life, in person with male friends I have never been particularly open about my sex life or mentioned when I find different women attractive. Plus when I enjoy the sight of a passing woman, I am certainly not effusive in my reaction. In fact I seldom ever turn my head, since I feel it is being crass. So I am happy to enjoy such views briefly, without any fanfare.


Doubt it... IME, most close male friends will actually talk about their sex life....same as female friends do.,..If even half of what they are saying is true, then their sex life is about as alive as a hamburger on a plate...

And believe me....its not like they are unhappy about it....That ship sailed for them...Period....By the appearance of a lot of them, my guess is their test levels are in the single digits, their peckers don't work, maybe on blood pressure meds, or whatever....It just doesn't matter anymore....Hobbies to them are what matters at that point...

And by no means did anyone do or say anything crass or effusive...lol...When she had passed and was no longer in earshot, the one guy that noticed looked over at me and made a comment, and I agreed and clearly took notice....the others didn't even know what we were talking about.... 😂


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> I think New Zealand's legal approach to sex work is terrific and would like to see their approach adopted widely.
> 
> 
> *"The New Zealand Model
> ...


Where do you draw the line? If a couple are having sex twice a week when one wants it 3-4 times a week, would that be justification to you to get sex else where? 
If you want anal sex and your partner doesn't, it that justification for you to seek that out else where?


----------



## ElwoodPDowd (Aug 25, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> IMO, the STD issue is the elephant in the room. Those advocating for relationship with multiple partners, especially including a partner who in turn is intimate with multiple (often random) partners like a prostitute ignore the risks. The person being cheated on has no idea their life is being risked by the spouse who swore an oath to be faithful. Unless the spouses have STD testing after *every* encounter outside the marriage, how can they know they are safe?


This is actually a red herring ..........
The western world (for whatever reason) vastly exaggerates the chances of catching an STD from a random unprotected encounter. I reality you would need 100+ sexual partners to have a significant risk of catching an STD, most of which are either easily cured or irrelevant to life in general.

Here is a page that gives the real info .......








Your Honest-to-God Guide to STDs


Calm down. Take a deep breath. It's going to be okay.



markmanson.net


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ElwoodPDowd said:


> This is actually a red herring ..........
> The western world (for whatever reason) vastly exaggerates the chances of catching an STD from a random unprotected encounter. I reality you would need 100+ sexual partners to have a significant risk of catching an STD, most of which are either easily cured or irrelevant to life in general.
> 
> Here is a page that gives the real info .......
> ...


My husband is a scientist who has worked in healthcare for about 25 years says that STD's are rife but that no one wants to talk about it.
There are also a lot that aren't easily cured and do seriously affect life and even cause things like cancer.


----------



## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> if you just look at the massive proliferation of sex workers online at OnlyFans....one can tell that sex workers come from all walks of life. are some abused or exploited? Sure!
> Are some taking advantage of YOU, controlling the shots, and making a **** ton of money off of you? ABSOLUTELY.
> 
> And how many lonely moms and married women sneak off to their onlyfans page to meet new guys for pay?
> ...


 there would have to be a large number of wife's that once worked as an escort , 
and there is a large number of husbands that are or were once clients of escorts , 
most people don't know the past of their other half


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

frenchpaddy said:


> there would have to be a large number of wife's that once worked as an escort ,
> and there is a large number of husbands that are or were once clients of escorts ,
> most people don't know the past of their other half


and then you get into the whole "does your spouse deserve to know what your sexual history was long before you met them?" question. Pandora's box for sure


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> _If you have read, heard or watched anything on this question, you will have encountered many estimates, from *9%** to more than 30%. *The idea that almost one in three people might be the result of what we biologists rather matter-of-factly call “extra-pair copulations” titillates and horrifies in equal measure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't see that article say the couple were married, they were only talking about the biological father in general. I would like to see the numbers for children born in and out of marriage. I have to believe that there would be more questions about children born outside of marriage.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> _If you have read, heard or watched anything on this question, you will have encountered many estimates, from *9%** to more than 30%. *The idea that almost one in three people might be the result of what we biologists rather matter-of-factly call “extra-pair copulations” titillates and horrifies in equal measure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You very selectively chose data from that article. All of the very high numbers have questionable data, were never peer reviewed or used a biased population. The only solid scientifically sound number presented were 1-3% from one source and 0.7-2% from another. And again, none of these studies mentioned what percent of the children were came from a married woman.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ElwoodPDowd said:


> This is actually a red herring ..........
> The western world (for whatever reason) vastly exaggerates the chances of catching an STD from a random unprotected encounter. I reality you would need 100+ sexual partners to have a significant risk of catching an STD, most of which are either easily cured or irrelevant to life in general.
> 
> Here is a page that gives the real info .......
> ...


Real info? Maybe real, but not unbiased. For example, this passage...

_"For instance, about 1 in 2,200 people are diagnosed with syphilis in the United States each year. By contrast, you have a 1 in 106 chance of dying in a car accident in your lifetime."
_
He compares a 1 year stat to a lifetime stat in an attempt to minimize syphilis. A more appropriate comparison would be that 1 in about 9000 people die each year in car accidents. So actually, you have a greater chance of contracting syphilis than dying in a car accident, which is the exact opposite of what he was trying to get you to take away from that passage.

Also the 1 in 2200 number is very misleading. It may be true that is how many people out of the whole population will get syphilis but what about only the population that engages in unprotected sex? That number is much higher. If a woman has a sexual encounter with an infected partner just one time their chance of contracting an STD is 60% to 90%. It is about a 20% chance for a man having sex with an infected woman.

STDs is a real issue and shouldn't minimized.
_

_


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Where do you draw the line?


Variously, and it's an evolving line.



> If a couple are having sex twice a week when one wants it 3-4 times a week, would that be justification to you to get sex else where?


Sure, if someone felt twice a week was insufficient. Who am I to tell them, who they can and cannot share consenting adult sex with?



> If you want anal sex and your partner doesn't, it that justification for you to seek that out else where?


Yep!

That said seeking sex elsewhere, certainly doesn't preclude dumping/divorcing someone either.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Talker67 said:


> first one that came up on google for me!
> 
> so lets say it is 15%. that is almost 1 in 5 women had sex out of the marriage, and were devious enough to let the man think it was their child.
> 
> So if you are married to those women, and the sex life is waning, what are the odds she is already screwing someone else? (pretty much 100%). Or that she would gladly let you use a hooker instead of her? (highly likely since she did the same for herself).


Another scenario could be that her husband is the LD person, or the one refusing sex much of the tiem, so she decided that she was entitled to get it elsewhere.

Most people who cheat are not ok with their spouse cheating. Infidelity is a selfish act, so cheaters are selfish. Somewhere between 20% and 60% of all married men cheat (depending on survey). A slightly lower percentage of married women cheat. Also, about 50% of betrayed spouse cheat in a revenge affair after they find out that their spouse was cheating.

We don't know for sure how many women have babies from an affair and don't tell their husband. We also don't know how many men have children with an affair partner and don't tell their wife. Often times either the man secretly supports the 'love child' if the woman is not married or the woman sues the affair partner father for child support and his wife ends up helping to support and care for the child.

Bottom line is that only bad comes from dishonesty. Which is why the idea that was suggested in the OP (opening post) of this thread is a very very bad idea... cheating, no matter who it's with, is a very very bad thing to do. It injures a lot of people.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ElwoodPDowd said:


> This is actually a red herring ..........
> The western world (for whatever reason) vastly exaggerates the chances of catching an STD from a random unprotected encounter. I reality you would need 100+ sexual partners to have a significant risk of catching an STD, most of which are either easily cured or irrelevant to life in general.
> 
> Here is a page that gives the real info .......
> ...


In addition to @*BigDaddyNY*'s points on the topic, that article only talks about syphilus. That's only one STD out of 

_"Sexually transmitted infections (STIs) are infections that are passed from person to person through sexual contact. HIV is an STI. There are more than 25 other STIs that are mainly spread by sexual contact such as vaginal, anal, and oral sex. Globally, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that more than *one million people get an STI every day.*"_​_Sexually Transmitted Infections or Diseases (STIs or STDs) | The Well Project _​


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Talker67 said:


> and then you get into the whole "does your spouse deserve to know what your sexual history was long before you met them?" question. Pandora's box for sure


I don't think it's a Pandora's box. If a man or woman feels that their spouse's sexual history is important than they need to discuss this BEFORE getting married. Their partner might lie to them. But if they make the point strongly enough that they will will not marry a person who, for example, was a sex worker then it's more likely that person will walk away. This discussion needs to happen early in the relationship, not after months/years of a relationship.


----------



## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I don't think it's a Pandora's box. If a man or woman feels that their spouse's sexual history is important than they need to discuss this BEFORE getting married. Their partner might lie to them. But if they make the point strongly enough that they will will not marry a person who, for example, was a sex worker then it's more likely that person will walk away. This discussion needs to happen early in the relationship, not after months/years of a relationship.


In many cases for men this is a Pandora's box. Males run on ego, weather they want to admit it or not. Some are a mature enough to not let it get to them and some are not. Think "Chasing Amy"


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You very selectively chose data from that article. All of the very high numbers have questionable data, were never peer reviewed or used a biased population. The only solid scientifically sound number presented were 1-3% from one source and 0.7-2% from another. And again, none of these studies mentioned what percent of the children were came from a married woman.


Hey, if Bidden can say "mission accomplished in afghanistan" with 10% of the Americans still trapped there, then i can grab the juicy states from some internet article!


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I don't think it's a Pandora's box.* If a man or woman feels that their spouse's sexual history is important *than they need to discuss this BEFORE getting married. Their partner might lie to them. But if they make the point strongly enough that they will will not marry a person who, for example, was a sex worker then it's more likely that person will walk away. This discussion needs to happen early in the relationship, not after months/years of a relationship.


i am not going to argue against that!
that is the sort of thing you really want to figure out BEFORE your get married IF it matters to you. i can see a whole lot of traditional value people, religious people, people who are "saving themselves" until they get married....they deserve to know before getting married.

but if i were to guess, for maybe 2/3 of young kids getting married today it is not a big deal. Yeah you do not want your potential spouse to have been a total ****, but you would kind of expect your fiance to have SOME sexual experience before you met.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Personal said:


> Variously, and it's an evolving line.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree that those are all up to the individual and certainly can change over time. I also think it is okay to look outside the marriage to satisfy those needs IF both people are aware and agree. I am not going to say a couple that has decided it is okay for one or both to go outside the marriage for sex is wrong. That is their choice. I'm not down for it, but so long as they aren't harming me, what do I care?


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> Another scenario could be that her husband is the LD person, or the one refusing sex much of the tiem, so she decided that she was entitled to get it elsewhere.
> 
> Most people who cheat are not ok with their spouse cheating. Infidelity is a selfish act, so cheaters are selfish. Somewhere between 20% and 60% of all married men cheat (depending on survey). A slightly lower percentage of married women cheat. Also, about 50% of betrayed spouse cheat in a revenge affair after they find out that their spouse was cheating.
> 
> ...


I actually think the point of the OP was to legalize prostitution so people in a relationship with a LD partner could get sexual relief above board and legally. Rather than sneaking around with an AP just have it out in the open.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You very selectively chose data from that article. All of the very high numbers have questionable data, were never peer reviewed or used a biased population. The only solid scientifically sound number presented were 1-3% from one source and 0.7-2% from another. And again, none of these studies mentioned what percent of the children were came from a married woman.


On the other hand, if it was that low, then why so much push back anytime someone mentions DNA testing for every child born? Shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> I don't think it's a Pandora's box. If a man or woman feels that their spouse's sexual history is important than they need to discuss this BEFORE getting married. Their partner might lie to them. But if they make the point strongly enough that they will will not marry a person who, for example, was a sex worker then it's more likely that person will walk away. This discussion needs to happen early in the relationship, not after months/years of a relationship.


 what I find strange there are huge amounts of sex workers but never any talk of their clients , 
like the finger pointer at women if not virgin , but it seems to be exceptionable to have used and forget to say anything about using sex workers , we often get people that get out of bed with a woman and say things like " she is good in bed but not wife material, which makes me ask what is it that makes what she was doing in bed so bad that she would not make wife material but he could still be husband material


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

So long as we’re talking about consenting adults, any and all laws — whether local, state, or federal — limiting one’s autonomy over his or her own body should be completely done away with.


----------



## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

frenchpaddy said:


> we often get people that get out of bed with a woman and say things like " she is good in bed but not wife material, which makes me ask what is it that makes what she was doing in bed so bad that she would not make wife material but he could still be husband material


You could be the best lay in the world and not be wife/husband material. One of the hallmark traits of someone with borderline personality disorder is they are usually exceptional sex partners, but I assure you to marry one would be no picnic.


----------



## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> So long as we’re talking about consenting adults, any and all laws — whether local, state, or federal — limiting one’s autonomy over his or her own body should be completely done away with.


THIS


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Al_Bundy said:


> On the other hand, if it was that low, then why so much push back anytime someone mentions DNA testing for every child born? Shouldn't be a problem.


There may come a day when we do that, but there are many pitfalls with DNA testing all newborns. Concerns about paternity is not one that is keeping us from testing all newborns.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ElwoodPDowd said:


> This is actually a red herring ..........
> The western world (for whatever reason) vastly exaggerates the chances of catching an STD from a random unprotected encounter. I reality you would need 100+ sexual partners to have a significant risk of catching an STD, most of which are either easily cured or irrelevant to life in general.
> 
> Here is a page that gives the real info .......
> ...


Do you think your prostitute would be exclusive to you? She might be doing that in a week.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

frenchpaddy said:


> there would have to be a large number of wife's that once worked as an escort ,
> and there is a large number of husbands that are or were once clients of escorts ,
> most people don't know the past of their other half


I saw a documentary about former escorts in Japan. Many professional women spent their student days escorting to pay their way through college. These women kept their pasts hidden from their husbands when they decided they wanted to marry and have families.

Personally, I'm all for legalizing and taxing sex workers, but people need to be transparent. Like many men who would never want a former escort for a wife, I would never want a husband who bought escorts or was one. Though most male escorts tend to have made clientele, women rarely need to pay for sex.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> standing back and looking at this forum, what do we see:
> Been married X years, and no sex, what do it do?
> Wife/Husband says he is no longer sexually interested in me?
> Should we start a threesome to rev up our married sex life?
> ...


The threads I read imply that there is a control dynamic in a marriage where the HD and LD are very far apart. The LD likes controlling the HD spouse, over time finding the minimum amount the sexual leash needs to be loosened to avoid the HD spouse leaving. So no LD spouse is about to give the HD any permission to decrease the stress. 

The LD will be sure the HD doesn't even masturbate because that takes away their control of their spouse's sexuality. A "sex" worker, BTW can we define what exactly that is? Are we talking a hooker, a dancer, or what exactly? I assume we are talking about a prostitute, a hooker? No LD with half a brain ( unless they are zero D and will never touch their spouse again ) is going to allow the spouse to hire a hooker.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> The threads I read imply that there is a control dynamic in a marriage where the HD and LD are very far apart. The LD likes controlling the HD spouse, over time finding the minimum amount the sexual leash needs to be loosened to avoid the HD spouse leaving. So no LD spouse is about to give the HD any permission to decrease the stress.
> 
> The LD will be sure the HD doesn't even masturbate because that takes away their control of their spouse's sexuality. A "sex" worker, BTW can we define what exactly that is? Are we talking a hooker, a dancer, or what exactly? I assume we are talking about a prostitute, a hooker? No LD with half a brain ( unless they are zero D and will never touch their spouse again ) is going to allow the spouse to hire a hooker.


there are many definitions, but for the purpose of this thread, lets say a "sex worker" involves a person who gives you oral or PIV sex resulting in an orgasm, or some specific fetish (ala Wicked Wanda). A hand job probably is borderline if you would call that a sex worker, as most men would NOT be fully satisfied with only a handie.



as far as the LD spouse using mind tricks to try to control and gaslight the HD spouse--that is just pure evil. there is some cover if the LD person just does not enjoy sex anymore, has hormone or health issues. but to just do it to screw with the HD person's mind....that in my mind gives the HD spouse free license to do whatever they want to outside of that dismal and evil "marriage"


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> there are many definitions, but for the purpose of this thread, lets say a "sex worker" involves a person who gives you oral or PIV sex resulting in an orgasm, or some specific fetish (ala Wicked Wanda). A hand job probably is borderline if you would call that a sex worker, as most men would NOT be fully satisfied with only a handie.
> 
> 
> 
> as far as the *LD spouse using mind tricks to try to control and gaslight the HD spouse--that is just pure evi*l. there is some cover if the LD person just does not enjoy sex anymore, has hormone or health issues. but to just do it to screw with the HD person's mind....that in my mind gives the HD spouse free license to do whatever they want to outside of that dismal and evil "marriage"


Ok, we are on same wavelength regarding "sex" worker. It is a euphemism this old guy wasn't sure about.

I would submit that the LD control of the HD *IS* the dynamic in most cases. They know full well what they are doing and greatly enjoy the power. And that control in no way gives the HD spouse any free license at all. Both of them made vows, and the LD using that against their spouse doen't release the other of their vows. It is a simple solution really, dissolve the marriage and each do whatever feels good to them. Of course if the HD is a male, he has to make some judgement about what his self respect is worth in terms of his finances. People make those calculations all of the time.


----------



## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

uphillbattle said:


> You could be the best lay in the world and not be wife/husband material. One of the hallmark traits of someone with borderline personality disorder is they are usually exceptional sex partners, but I assure you to marry one would be no picnic.


 you seem to have found a way to dance around the subject of my post ,
to put it simple i was asking what gives the man who is sexually active with many women point his finger at one of the women he bedded and say she is not wife materiel for doing the same thing as he did with her and others


----------



## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

frenchpaddy said:


> you seem to have found a way to dance around the subject of my post ,
> to put it simple i was asking what gives the man who is sexually active with many women point his finger at one of the women he bedded and say she is not wife materiel for doing the same thing as he did with her and others


Personal preference. Not saying it's not hypocritical but, people have the righ to their own preferences.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

frenchpaddy said:


> you seem to have found a way to dance around the subject of my post ,
> to put it simple i was asking what gives the man who is sexually active with many women point his finger at one of the women he bedded and say she is not wife materiel for doing the same thing as he did with her and others


I just don’t know why this is so hard for some to accept. 

Men and women are different.
Men and women value different traits differently when selecting for a partner.
Men and women select for different criteria when evaluating/choosing partners for LTR / marriage.

That’s it. Men and women (on average) have different preferences and place different value on certain traits. 
You don’t have to like it, but that’s reality.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Lots of interesting replies here. My simple solution. Don't get married. I know I won't do it a third time and then you don't have to worry about any of this. The sex stops...you move on. Next!


----------



## ElwoodPDowd (Aug 25, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> In addition to @*BigDaddyNY*'s points on the topic, that article only talks about syphilus.


Did you miss the menu at the bottom of the page?


----------



## ElwoodPDowd (Aug 25, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Also the 1 in 2200 number is very misleading. It may be true that is how many people out of the whole population will get syphilis but what about only the population that engages in unprotected sex? That number is much higher. If a woman has a sexual encounter with an infected partner just one time their chance of contracting an STD is 60% to 90%. It is about a 20% chance for a man having sex with an infected woman.


If you look at the syphilis page, RAW score is 890 partners.
Chances of catching syphilis from a random unprotected sexual encounter in the USA is just over 0.12%.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Assuming they are consenting adults, sugar babies are legal.


----------



## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> I just don’t know why this is so hard for some to accept.
> 
> Men and women are different.
> Men and women value different traits differently when selecting for a partner.
> ...


 they are just hypocritical end of story


----------



## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

I think it's 2 different issues. 

Plenty on here about sexless marriages so no sense beating that drum...

I don't think the legalization of prostitution would help marriages. If anything I think it'd spike the divorce rate. Paying for sex is a line many women will divorce over.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


----------



## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

Mr. Nail said:


> I think the divorce rate *Sh*ould rocket if spouses -snip- d*o*n't think they *a*re getting enough sex -snip-
> 
> Why is divorce a bad thing when one or both parties are failing to keep the vow to *LOVE* their partner?


I personally don't think legalization is a bad idea. I just don't think it's a viable solution to the sexless marriage issue they opened with. Like I said plenty of resources on here discussing sexless marriage and divorce is certainly an option!


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Regardless of any moral stance anyone may have the government should not be in control of a woman’s free will. Her free agency is not at the discretion of others.


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Mr Married wrote, *the government should not be in control of a woman’s free will. Her free agency is not at the discretion of others. *

I certainly agree with that, however even more so pimps, drug dealers, madams, users and others who make most of the profit from prostitution should be punished heavily. I don't know if private manipulation and abuse is worse or better than governmental control or how we can protect these vulnerable persons.

I will say that exploitative spouses in marriages bear some similarity to those horrible persons.


----------

