# Reducing validation needs



## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Fairly recently I realized my whole life has been too much getting external validation and I (58m) hate it. I’ve f’ed up in some pretty major ways because of it. Don’t read my backstory unless you want to start off hating me. So now I know the problem and am starting to change but it’s going kind of slow honestly. I’m maybe 4-5 months into this thing.

Activities so far are:

Reduce emotional dependencies on my wife (57, married 20y). Don’t seek her approval for everything I do, and don’t necessarily be ok with everything she does. This has been tough to do.
Shift to more alpha footing (being more decisive, actively leading the marriage, ‘guard my marriage, defend my wife’ footing, caring less about harmony and more about the right thing, etc.) This was easy to do.
Mental exercises to remind myself of this issue and squash those feelings of needing validation.
My wife is fully aware of my issues and has responded overwhelmingly positively to these changes. So far so good.

*Question*: What are some things, tips, tricks, etc that can help a person like me can do to move away from the need for external validation to something like self-validation or self-confidence? My problem extends back to daddy issues and (in a more significant way) my first marriage at 19yo. So this has been with me for a while. But the mental battle is tough and I’m seeking any extra guidance I can get. NMMNG has been a huge help also.

When I initially started down this path I thought to have my wife support these changes by leaning on her for validation (which she sucks at). But then I realized that would be shifting the problem rather than fixing it.

After some changes mentioned above, to a lesser degree I still find myself desiring approval and appreciation from others. I’m not so much overtly seeking it and it doesn’t drive my actions, but the mind games want to hear agreement, approval, compliments, etc. What I mean here is that I don’t think that I take actions or make decisions with the intent to pull out some approval or validation from anyone. But instead, after I do take some action or make a decision, my mind wants that validation from others. It’s frustrating and I hate it. I almost have to get angry at myself to kill those desires, and that’s not really good either. Or is it?

Even in this post I have to question how much validation I’m seeking. And I don’t really know the answer to that. But the fact that I’m posting this at all is a personal win. No way I’d put myself out there a year ago.

Thank you for your thoughts.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

You need to ask yourself why. 
Why do you feel the need for external approval of your actions. 
Why is her lack of approval affecting your existing relationship with your wife. 
And most importantly why do you give a **** what strangers think about you.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> You need to ask yourself why.
> Why do you feel the need for external approval of your actions.
> Why is her lack of approval affecting your existing relationship with your wife.
> And most importantly why do you give a **** what strangers think about you.


Thanks for your feedback.

Great question "why do I care". Not "strangers" but family/friends. Anyone in my sphere of influence.

I guess we all like to be liked by others right?
We all like to be looked up to and respected.

My kneejerk thought is the need for validation comes from those desires.
Is it possible to fill those desires without getting validation?
Or is it more about not caring about those desires? (liked, respected, etc)

There is a sense of self-worth that is also feeding the desire for validation, I'm certain of that and I'm certain I want to kill that desire completely. Somehow.

maybe I'm overthinking this whole thing, idk.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

It would help to have a concrete example of an action you are taking and what you’d like to have happen and from whom.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

@BeyondRepair007 do you mind telling me what you do for a living. You don’t have to be exact, I’d like to know if you are or were in a supervisory or management position or were you self employed.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> It would help to have a concrete example of an action you are taking and what you’d like to have happen and from whom.


I hope I understood what you are asking, here are some examples.

Example 1:
I might be a in social situation with guy friends.
Because of my crappy self-image I think that these friends don't really get anything positive from my presence. We laugh, we joke, we drink, etc but it feels fake to me. Like they tolerate me. I know in my head that's not the case, but not in my heart. I'm usually the quiet one because in my heart I think nobody really wants to hear from me.

I've had external validation before that these things are not true in this scenario I mentioned. Friends have made comments about glad I'm there, or someone asking my opinion about something, etc. But I still can't shake the constant need.
<some of you are thinking, "yea, I really wouldn't want you there either"  . tbh I might think the same if I read this.>

Example 2:
Internally I go freaking nuts when any woman complements anything about me. There's always a thought that I'm not desirable or not good looking or not a real man or whatever so any feedback otherwise sends me emotionally to the moon for a while. Then after a while I start diluting what was said until I convince myself it wasn't really meant.

Example 3:
I really want to feel needed and desired by my wife (physically, emotionally, etc). Because of other issues I won't go into right now, this is not her strong suit and my needs are high, maybe higher than most, so there's a gap. It doesn't mean she doesn't feel these things, just her expressing it is a problem. I feel exceptionally hurt when I have some expectation of a compliment or kind word or a thank you or a sorry, or whatever, and it doesn't come. Even though I know there's no real problem, my ego still takes a hit.

In all these examples, the desired outcome is to not have the negative ideas in the first place but instead to have my own built-in self-confidence so that external validation is nice, but doesn't affect anything. I'll deal with the wife issues separately, but there are no threats to our marriage during all this.

I hope this makes sense. I'm not great at all this emotional BS and still trying to find my way to a better me.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> @BeyondRepair007 do you mind telling me what you do for a living. You don’t have to be exact, I’d like to know if you are or were in a supervisory or management position or were you self employed.


Sr mgnt in a large global software company.
Interestingly enough I don't have any of these issues at work or with managing/leading teams.
I don't get it.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Fairly recently I realized my whole life has been too much getting external validation and I (58m) hate it.
> 
> *Question*: What are some things, tips, tricks, etc that can help a person like me can do to move away from the need for external validation to something like self-validation or self-confidence? My problem extends back to daddy issues and (in a more significant way) my first marriage at 19yo. So this has been with me for a while. But the mental battle is tough and I’m seeking any extra guidance I can get. NMMNG has been a huge help also.
> 
> ...


We all look for external validation. Every.One.Of.Us. Anyone who says different is lying, it's human nature to want to be accepted and validated. It's perfectly ok to seek validation, however, it's not ok to seek it at the expense of others, or use it to measure your self worth. I can't answer for you, but I know what makes ME confident in myself: 

*The gym (or now my home gym)* - that's the one true place I feel at home. In there, i'm in my own world. I'm untouchable and for that half hour-hour, i'm god. Usually after a good workout, that god like feeling lasts a few hours to a day or two.

*Work *- Seems the more work I get done, the more confident I feel. When my employees get something right on their own initiative, it makes me feel good.

*Public* - I hate to say this, but in general when I'm out in public and a nice woman is trying to talk to me or get my attention, that makes me feel confident and desired and usually spills over to the bedroom.

I don't look for validation at home. I notice the more I praise the one's around me, the better I feel. If my kids are doing something right, or employees for that matter, that means i've done something right and it feels good.

And always remember, YOU are better than them, so them giving you validation won't mean much. If you are proud of yourself and your actions, you will feel validated.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> We all look for external validation. Every.One.Of.Us. Anyone who says different is lying, it's human nature to want to be accepted and validated. It's perfectly ok to seek validation, however, it's not ok to seek it at the expense of others, or use it to measure your self worth. I can't answer for you, but I know what makes ME confident in myself:
> 
> *The gym (or now my home gym)* - that's the one true place I feel at home. In there, i'm in my own world. I'm untouchable and for that half hour-hour, i'm god. Usually after a good workout, that god like feeling lasts a few hours to a day or two.
> 
> ...


MB, I appreciate your comment and suggestions.
So maybe I am really just overthinking this and not as bad as I think. Still stuff to fix, yes. That bad no.
When I realized the sad state of my life choices I went into 'hyper-correction' mode. I get suspicious of my every thought and motive and want everything fixed before I do any more damage.

Many thanks.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

Love and accept yourself. If you're a validation *****, you're a validation *****. This idea of hating yourself for it is unhealthy. Especially since it doesn't seem to be negatively impacting your life anymore, since you made those initial adjustments.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@BeyondRepair007,
I am a female person so that may slightly make my thoughts different, but I am also a bit of a “validation *****@ as @gaius so colorfully phrased it! Lol! But I know that I am that way and use it to my advantage… competitively. I want the thrill winning an award so I sign up for 100-mile challenges. In my normal life I use this as a motivation “to win” and I give myself the reward for accomplishing what I set out to do. So partly, work on supplying your own validation…and partly accept that it is something that motivates you and use that to your advantage.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Hi OP, my name is a Jamie and I'm a recovering validation *****. I have made some pretty sketchy decisions bourne out of my need for validation too. However, first step to recovery is knowing who you are. 

Mine stemmed from some horrendous bullying in school, which shattered my self confidence and self worth. Im in my 40s now, but the scars are still there. 

You say you have some unresolved daddy issues, if its still an option, you can try to resolve those with him in a non confrontational way. Or, if not an option, try to understand what your unmet needs were and meet them yourself. 

Its not easy, in fact, it's incredibly hard work, you are literally trying to change the habit of a lifetime. But, it is worth the effort to gain that self respect that deep down you may have been lacking all these years.

I'd like to know which ones of the following apply and I can tell you what I did to address the specific issue. If none apply, I can't help you because I can only give advice based on my very individual experience.

You have a hard time balancing the need to say no against the social ramifications of saying it. (When saying no is the right decision for you)

You prefer the company of women you find attractive and skillfully fish for compliments 

You do things based not on what will make you happy/fulfilled and do things that you think will garner you praise/respect from others.

You often find yourself participating in things that, once the reality of the situation unfolds you aren't that passionate about.

You are disappointed with people when they fail to meet your expectations of their behaviour in a given situation.

As you might have guessed, these are my major areas to work on. I have had some success, especially the first one, and it's been amazing how much it has improved my self worth.

Good luck regardless of the above, you're a better man today for wanting to improve and grow


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

What are these "daddy issues"?

EDIT: checked your other thread...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> In all these examples, the desired outcome is to not have the negative ideas in the first place but instead to have my own built-in self-confidence so that external validation is nice, but doesn't affect anything. I'll deal with the wife issues separately, but there are no threats to our marriage during all this.


So I think the way you achieve this is to do what you want to do because you feel like it. If you do this then the reason you take an action is because you wanted to do it so you’re meeting your own needs.

For example going out with the guys. If you want to, do it. Then it’s self rewarding because you felt like going out drinking or whatever. I wouldn’t invite someone to hang out in my free time just to be nice or to make a new friend unless it is a new co-worker and then if they’re annoying that’s it for them probably a one and done. I value my time too much to waste it doing things I don’t want to do or hanging out with people I don’t like.

The rest of it, no clue. If a woman hits on me or something like that sure I like it but it’s no big deal. To me it’s more interesting to see how my wife reacts to it.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> What are these "daddy issues"?
> 
> EDIT: checked your other thread...


Oh man, sorry you had to do that.

Daddy issues: I consider it minor but led to major things. Step-Dad was a stable hard working man and provided for our financially poor family, but he was a complete doormat for mom. This lack of leadership, plus his general disdain for me (not abusive, but def not loving) set me up for failure.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Jamieboy said:


> You say you have some unresolved daddy issues, if its still an option, you can try to resolve those with him in a non confrontational way. Or, if not an option, try to understand what your unmet needs were and meet them yourself.


This is not an option, he passed away years ago.



Jamieboy said:


> You have a hard time balancing the need to say no against the social ramifications of saying it. (When saying no is the right decision for you)


To some extent, this is true. I'm often getting engaged with bs that I don't want to do. Partly this is because my wife is a major extrovert socialite and volunteers for everything under the sun. The "new me" has put some boundaries on this for both our sakes, but there's a balance between my wants and her wants. Neither of us are perfectly happy all the time, but the balance seems to work and she even admits the boundaries were needed.



Jamieboy said:


> You prefer the company of women you find attractive and skillfully fish for compliments


I laughed at this one. Sure I like the company of attractive women, but all of this would require a level of confidence I don't have. If I happen to get a compliment, it remains in my head for weeks. 

A guy complimented me one time in a pretty major way, and I immediately thought "oh crap, now I have this in my head for the next few weeks". And so I did.



Jamieboy said:


> You do things based not on what will make you happy/fulfilled and do things that you think will garner you praise/respect from others.


This one is tricky, seems like a chicken/egg thing. I _think_ my motives are pure when I get involved with some project/task/event. But the desire afterward is for someone to notice. It's tough to be certain here. The after-desire is the thing I want to kill off.

Thanks for the comments JB and I certainly welcome any suggestions.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

gaius said:


> Love and accept yourself. If you're a validation ***, you're a validation ***. This idea of hating yourself for it is unhealthy. Especially since it doesn't seem to be negatively impacting your life anymore, since you made those initial adjustments.


I sort of think I'm already in this spot. I don't hate myself and I understand better than ever who I am, but I do hate the validation ***** parts of my emotional makeup.
So now that I have that solid footing, I want to try to kill off the parts I don't like.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Affaircare said:


> @BeyondRepair007,
> I am a female person so that may slightly make my thoughts different, but I am also a bit of a “validation ***@ as @gaius so colorfully phrased it! Lol! But I know that I am that way and use it to my advantage… competitively. I want the thrill winning an award so I sign up for 100-mile challenges. In my normal life I use this as a motivation “to win” and I give myself the reward for accomplishing what I set out to do. So partly, work on supplying your own validation…and partly accept that it is something that motivates you and use that to your advantage.


Thanks AC. I appreciate your comments and unique perspective.

I think I would have some trouble with this, but I'm not opposed to keeping it on the back burner.

I'm not sure why but I have always been very hard-line on motives. If I suspect my or SO motives aren't pure, I react negatively. It's caused a ton of relationship issues over time, because sometimes SO wants to do something nice for me even against what they would do otherwise. That bugs the stuffing out of me.

I'm better on that issue now than ever before, you can't hardly make the changes I have made recently and still hold on to this. Really simple example: If my wife asks were I want to eat dinner, I tell her and we go there. Doesn't matter if she's really into it. I'm not an ogre...she can always tell me what she wants to do and we'll do that. But if she asks then we don't do the "where to go" dance anymore. 

Anyway, that was a rabbit trail. I'll keep your suggestions as plan B in case I fail miserably.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Oh man, sorry you had to do that.


no problem... it was an interesting read...


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> This is not an option, he passed away years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It seems like you are making some good progress, saying no is both empowering but nerve-wracking to begin with. But it does get easier I've found. As to you and your wife, its ok to be independent of each other, as long as you come together to do things you both enjoy.

Number 2 was my MO im ashamed to admit, but since working on myself I find validation within myself. Recognising my impulse to steer the conversation and crushing it, I do struggle with this one still, but im certainly better than before. If someone offers an unsolicited compliment, I take it for what it is, thank them and hell yeah bask in it for as long as you want, you probably earned it. 

The last one you mention is tricky, but analyse your motives carefully, do you imagine how people will perceive you, while or after you do the thing? The best reason to do something is because you will please yourself. 

You sound like you are very self aware and working toward being who you want to be. Self acceptance and self worth are important, but don't feel you need to be perfect.

Kudos to you for how far you've come and wish you success in the future


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Jamieboy said:


> do you imagine how people will perceive you, while or after you do the thing?


Thanks for the comments JB.

No, not consciously. I would be a fool to think it didn't play a part somehow though.
My main issue is in the after. I "need" (or strong desire?) to feel appreciated, loved, approved, complimented, whatever.

But from the comments here it seems like I should take a breather and not be so hard on myself.

In the end, my wife & marriage are the key motivators for this thread & questions.

I'm guessing that the more I feel a need for external validation, the more a door is left open for some other lady to provide it.
And that will not do at all. So this work is to 'guard my heart' as much as anything.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Thanks for the comments JB.
> 
> No, not consciously. I would be a fool to think it didn't play a part somehow though.
> My main issue is in the after. I "need" (or strong desire?) to feel appreciated, loved, approved, complimented, whatever.
> ...


Just wanting to do right by your wife, is a good and noble motivation. You'll do alright as long as you keep the end game in sight.


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