# Opposite sex friends!



## LonelyGuy69 (May 1, 2015)

I've had an issue recently where I became confused with a woman's behaviour toward me. I've managed to deal with it, but I was wondering have any guys had a opposite sex friendship that either they mistook the woman's friendliness for more, or where you were in a relationship and your partner objected to or asked you to stop the friendship?


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

If you're in a relationship and are getting mixed signals from an OSF, your partner is right to be concerned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I have always had OSF and never had an issue with anything developing. I think it's because I have some firm thoughts and boundrys with friendships. For example if I was attracted to one of my friends and secretly wanted to be with her then we aren't really friends in the first place. This is probably why when dating I have also never been friendzoned. Ohh its be brought up but if I'm interested in dating you then I'm not ok with just being friends so we have to say goodbye.

Now the other part has it effected my other relationships? Yes. In one case my then girlfriend had a HUGE problem with my female friend who also happens to be one of my best friends. She just could not get over the fact that I didn't base my friendships on gender but rather on what we had in common. ANYONE who knows either me or my friend would tell you no way we could ever be together. We are not interested in each other at all that way. So I did all I could to show my GF nothing was scandalous. They met, they hung out, we all went to do things as couples but none of it appeased her. Through all of it my friend was also become upset because she was trying her hardest to have this woman approve of her. In the end my GF gave me an ultimatum so I broke up with her and have never regretted it. My now GF loves my friend but of course she is also wise enough to look at it objectively and recognize 1) I wouldn't cheat 2) this friend and I would never date because she is in NO way my type


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Other sex friends are great, and I have several. There are potential landmines out there though, so you need to keep your eyes open.


----------



## meson (May 19, 2011)

Nope I've never misattributed a womans friendliness for something more. But I did develop feelings for one and my wife pointed it out in a roundabout way. I do believe that your spouse should have veto power over opposite sex friends. Often they can see what we do not so their opinion should not be discounted or ignored. 

One should also have boundaries that keep situations from arising that could lead to misinterpretation or more. Good boundaries are the core to OSF friendships.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Would it affect anyone's opinion on OSFs depending on when they became friends? For instance, would you treat an OSF your SO got in to while you were together the same as one where the OSF had occurred before you and SO got together?

To be honest, I am not sure how I would respond if my wife now started befriending a guy (vs if she had a guy friend before we got together).


----------



## LisaKane (Jun 26, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> Would it affect anyone's opinion on OSFs depending on when they became friends? For instance, would you treat an OSF your SO got in to while you were together the same as one where the OSF had occurred before you and SO got together?
> 
> To be honest, I am not sure how I would respond if my wife now started befriending a guy (vs if she had a guy friend before we got together).


Timing would completely change my view on this. Previous friendships, old ones where there is a shared history of family and growing up does not bother me and I have become friends with these women as well as their families. However, new friendships where he befriends women through work or his gym or hobbies would be a red flag to me.


----------



## meson (May 19, 2011)

EllisRedding said:


> Would it affect anyone's opinion on OSFs depending on when they became friends? For instance, would you treat an OSF your SO got in to while you were together the same as one where the OSF had occurred before you and SO got together?
> 
> To be honest, I am not sure how I would respond if my wife now started befriending a guy (vs if she had a guy friend before we got together).


That does make a difference for a lot of couples. The crucial thing is for both spouse to agree with the boundaries for OSFs. If you don't feel comfortable with it that's your prerogative to protect your marriage.


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> Would it affect anyone's opinion on OSFs depending on when they became friends? For instance, would you treat an OSF your SO got in to while you were together the same as one where the OSF had occurred before you and SO got together?
> 
> To be honest, I am not sure how I would respond if my wife now started befriending a guy (vs if she had a guy friend before we got together).


Yes. An osf predating the relationship is much more acceptable. More acceptable because a new osf is very rarely acceptable in my book. 

Also, even old osfs can be dangerous; like beta orbiters who rely on emotional connections to maintain friendship but secretly hope for more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LisaKane (Jun 26, 2015)

zillard said:


> Yes. An osf predating the relationship is much more acceptable. More acceptable because a new osf is very rarely acceptable in my book.
> 
> Also, even old osfs can be dangerous; like beta orbiters who rely on emotional connections to maintain friendship but secretly hope for more.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please forgive my ignorance, but what are beta orbiters? Sounds like a protein blocker.


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

LisaKane said:


> Please forgive my ignorance, but what are beta orbiters? Sounds like a protein blocker.


Pretty much the same thing. 

Beta male who wants to have sex with a woman but orbits instead of making the first move. Both try to convince themselves they are just friends, but deep down know better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't care if she doesn't want to get into my husband's or not...... In fact, a lot of women will feel as if they are all that because they will get the free meals, the attention, the priority WITHOUT having sex with the guy. Now that's a serious home run for that kind of woman.......

and all at the expense of the faithful wife / girlfriend.

My future husband got rid of his just a friend ex when I asked him whether she needed to be in his life. If yes, then I would follow her example and go out and find a boyfriend for myself. But he and I could remain friends, you know.


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Would it affect anyone's opinion on OSFs depending on when they became friends? For instance, would you treat an OSF your SO got in to while you were together the same as one where the OSF had occurred before you and SO got together?
> 
> To be honest, I am not sure how I would respond if my wife now started befriending a guy (vs if she had a guy friend before we got together).


Yes, I think there would be a difference. If my husband started a friendship with a woman at this stage in life, 50 and married for 25 years, (not to mention it would be totally out of the norm for him), I would find it totally innappropriate and my spidey senses would be tingling. It's possible he might be clueless and naive just think it's a friendship but I would wonder what her motives are that is for sure.


----------



## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

meson said:


> Nope I've never misattributed a womans friendliness for something more. But I did develop feelings for one and my wife pointed it out in a roundabout way. I do believe that your spouse should have veto power over opposite sex friends. Often they can see what we do not so their opinion should not be discounted or ignored.
> 
> One should also have boundaries that keep situations from arising that could lead to misinterpretation or more. Good boundaries are the core to OSF friendships.


Absolutely, which is why, in my early recovery/therapy, I cannot have OSFs. It is simply too dangerous. I'm at a stage in my therapy where I am scared witless about engaging with women given my former nature.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

soccermom2three said:


> Yes, I think there would be a difference. If my husband started a friendship with a woman at this stage in life, 50 and married for 25 years, (not to mention it would be totally out of the norm for him), I would find it totally innappropriate and my spidey senses would be tingling. It's possible he might be clueless and naive just think it's a friendship but I would wonder what her motives are that is for sure.


Exactly same for me. My wife and I have been together for over 17 years (dating + marriage). At no point did she ever have a guy friend who wasn't a friend of mine. If now suddenly she showed up with a new guy friend, just like you, my spidey senses would be tingling. I would have zero reason to not trust my wife, but issue would be with him and what his motives are.


----------



## meson (May 19, 2011)

MountainRunner said:


> Absolutely, which is why, in my early recovery/therapy, I cannot have OSFs. It is simply too dangerous. I'm at a stage in my therapy where I am scared witless about engaging with women given my former nature.


This is also a good point. Those that form emotional attachments easily would be better to avoid OSFs. MountainRunner your history is exactly that so you are exercising prudence which is wise.


----------



## meson (May 19, 2011)

soccermom2three said:


> Yes, I think there would be a difference. If my husband started a friendship with a woman at this stage in life, 50 and married for 25 years, (not to mention it would be totally out of the norm for him), I would find it totally innappropriate and my spidey senses would be tingling. It's possible he might be clueless and naive just think it's a friendship but I would wonder what her motives are that is for sure.


The fact that it is out of the norm is important and indicative of an attachment. 

For me I'm 53 and married 25 years but I started my relationship with my wife by introducing her to an OSF. So it's not out of the norm for me. A few years ago I met a couple of women that became friends with respect to a hobby and that was normal and hasn't led to a problem yet despite a few trips with them. 

Even though we accept OSFs it doesn't make us immune. My wife did notice when I started escalating contact with one of her friends and she was concerned that I was doing things out of the norm and called me on it rightly. Transparency was the thing that prevented it from going further. Because of that I have much better boundaries with OSFs. 

If you are going to have OSFs then good boundaries and transparency can help protect the marriage in addition to giving veto power over an OSF to your spouse.


----------



## LisaKane (Jun 26, 2015)

zillard said:


> Pretty much the same thing.
> 
> Beta male who wants to have sex with a woman but orbits instead of making the first move. Both try to convince themselves they are just friends, but deep down know better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks! 
Yeah, I remember those guys! I lost them quick as that is cruel!


----------



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

I am always a bit amused by these posts. I have always worked in fields dominated by women so I have always had OSF. Some of them I love like sisters. I would be there for any of them if they sought my help or counsel and my wife would not blink. Why? Because I have always had the maturity to no think with my d!ck. Not only do I love and respect these women but I also respect and love their families. It's mutual. End of story.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

RClawson said:


> I am always a bit amused by these posts. I have always worked in fields dominated by women so I have always had OSF. Some of them I love like sisters. I would be there for any of them if they sought my help or counsel and my wife would not blink. Why? Because I have always had the maturity to no think with my d!ck. Not only do I love and respect these women but I also respect and love their families. It's mutual. End of story.


The difference though, this is the norm for you. For me, I don't work around women (or very very few) and likewise my wife is not usually around men. So that is why it would be somewhat questionable if suddenly one of us showed up with a new OSF, especially since meeting one would not fall within the normal course of the day such as work for myself.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

RClawson said:


> *I am always a bit amused by these posts. *I have always worked in fields dominated by women so I have always had OSF. Some of them I love like sisters. I would be there for any of them if they sought my help or counsel and my wife would not blink. Why? Because I have always had the maturity to no think with my d!ck. Not only do I love and respect these women but I also respect and love their families. It's mutual. End of story.


I guess you have never had a problem with any of your female friends. Good for you.

I used to be open to OSFs as well. But as soon as a female friend felt she had a direct line to my husband, I was treated like some unwanted appendage by them. ie Oh, alright, I 'll say hi to her......

The best solution to a problem is avoid it completely.


----------



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> I guess you have never had a problem with any of your female friends. Good for you.
> 
> I used to be open to OSFs as well. But as soon as a female friend felt she had a direct line to my husband, I was treated like some unwanted appendage by them. ie Oh, alright, I 'll say hi to her......
> 
> The best solution to a problem is avoid it completely.


Your right I am a guy and do not have a husband so this is not an issue. This thread is about opposite sex friends not same sex friends. Oh and none of my guy friends have tried to hit on my wife.


----------



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

EllisRedding said:


> The difference though, this is the norm for you. For me, I don't work around women (or very very few) and likewise my wife is not usually around men. So that is why it would be somewhat questionable if suddenly one of us showed up with a new OSF, especially since meeting one would not fall within the normal course of the day such as work for myself.


This is a true thing. I have not had a new female friend for well over a decade because there would be no reason for me to have one. There was a married woman that worked shortly where i am employed. She was overly flirty and it made me very uncomfortable. I just did not respond to any of it. She got the message quite quickly.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

RClawson said:


> Your right I am a guy and do not have a husband so this is not an issue. This thread is about opposite sex friends not same sex friends. Oh and none of my guy friends have tried to hit on my wife.


If your wife had a problem with your OSFs, then you would have a problem too. So what I wrote is as relevant to you as it is to anyone else who has partner and OSFs.

Tell me why that is so hard for you to understand.


----------



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> If your wife had a problem with your OSFs, then you would have a problem too. So what I wrote is as relevant to you as it is to anyone else who has partner and OSFs.
> 
> Tell me why that is so hard for you to understand.


I did read your post incorrectly however I would not be friendly with a women who had any interest in me. If I ever made any advance toward any of the women I have been friends with they would 1. slap me around a bit and 2. call my wife and let her know they just slapped me around and why.

There are some women that I never would have become close friends with because I understood that they had character flaws that would be dangerous for my relationship. One does have to use good judgement in these situations. If my wife ever asked me not to engage with any of these women it would be done with.

At the end of the day I would say my wifes same sex friends have been far more damaging to our relationship than any of my friends male or female but that is a whole other story.


----------



## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

It really depends on whether you have always been/are around OSF most of the time or not. [depending on your job/lifestyle...etc].
Supposing my future husband is a photographer, I wouldn't expect him to not have any OSF because that's pretty much his lifestyle. I either accept it or move on. I cannot stop him from having female friends if that's what he deals with on daily basis and is usual of him.
But if my future husband is a tech guy [who mostly happens to be around male friends] and all of a sudden, after marriage he starts having a female friend, then this would raise my suspicions. 

As a general rule, I'm not against OSF as long as the other partner is friends with OSF as well and the boundaries are respected and no secrets are kept.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

RClawson said:


> I did read your post incorrectly however I would not be friendly with a women who had any interest in me. If I ever made any advance toward any of the women I have been friends with they would 1. slap me around a bit and 2. call my wife and let her know they just slapped me around and why.
> 
> There are some women that I never would have become close friends with because I understood that they had character flaws that would be dangerous for my relationship. One does have to use good judgement in these situations. If my wife ever asked me not to engage with any of these women it would be done with.
> 
> *At the end of the day I would say my wifes same sex friends have been far more damaging to our relationship than any of my friends male or female but that is a whole other story*.


That's thoroughly possible. I'm convinced now that a woman I was friends with in the 90s was really interested in getting to my husband. So much for being friendly and open minded......


----------



## meson (May 19, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> That's thoroughly possible. I'm convinced now that a woman I was friends with in the 90s was really interested in getting to my husband. So much for being friendly and open minded......


This happens. Some people are not really friends at all and really want something else whether it's your spouse or something altogether different. The problem is we are dealing with people and all of their flaws and desires. The trick is to detect them via transparency and other interactions first and to be on the lookout for it. 

This can happen with OSFs as well as same sex friends. I had a false friend who was really trying to get me to teach him hobby skills who canceled on everything else. I cut him out just as I would if they were really interested in my wife. Some people just suck!


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

meson said:


> This happens. Some people are not really friends at all and really want something else whether it's your spouse or something altogether different. The problem is we are dealing with people and all of their flaws and desires. * The trick is to detect them via transparency *and other interactions first and to be on the lookout for it.
> 
> This can happen with OSFs as well as same sex friends. I had a false friend who was really trying to get me to teach him hobby skills who canceled on everything else. I cut him out just as I would if they were really interested in my wife. Some people just suck!


I'm not sure what you mean on this occasion. Asking your friend if she is trying to hit on your husband, hmmm, what kind of respond would that yield.

The answer to this problem is to have boundaries and to enforce them. She always wanted to go out with me and my husband and never brought a date of her own. Finally, that's become a red flag for me.


----------



## meson (May 19, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> I'm not sure what you mean on this occasion. Asking your friend if she is trying to hit on your husband, hmmm, what kind of respond would that yield.
> 
> The answer to this problem is to have boundaries and to enforce them. She always wanted to go out with me and my husband and never brought a date of her own. Finally, that's become a red flag for me.


I wasn't suggesting a direct question which probably wouldn't be answered truthfully. By transparency I mean the interactions of others with your spouse are know to you and are above board. Because this was the case you noticed her lack of a date was a red flag. The real problems start when a spouse hides or misleads interactions with an OSF when there is a lack of transparency.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

meson said:


> I wasn't suggesting a direct question which probably wouldn't be answered truthfully. * By transparency I mean the interactions of others with your spouse are know to you and are above board. * Because this was the case you noticed her lack of a date was a red flag. The real problems start when a spouse hides or misleads interactions with an OSF when there is a lack of transparency.


Agreed. I met her for dinner after I had been separated and she asked if I had from my estranged husband. I said no, but some of my friends had told me that he had sent them Christmas cards (very English you know). She had this outburst, "well, I didn't get one." And that was when I started looking at her in a different light. She left the country soon after and I have never heard from her. And don't care.

When I think about it, I gave my friends way more access to my husband than most women do. Never again. ie, you want "us" to go out with you, then you call me and make plans with me........

This was just on the cusp of the digital age so it was difficult to find unbiased information. If you ask your friends, either you'll get "my husband doesn't have any friends, ergo, no problems there" or the "what's wrong with one of your friends calling your husband from time to time. ......."


----------



## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

No OP sex friends for us. In the past, we both tended to get along better with the Opposite sex, and we figure we better not take any chances.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

NextTimeAround said:


> I don't care if she doesn't want to get into my husband's or not...... In fact, a lot of women will feel as if they are all that because they will get the free meals, the attention, the priority WITHOUT having sex with the guy. Now that's a serious home run for that kind of woman.......
> 
> and all at the expense of the faithful wife / girlfriend.
> 
> My future husband got rid of his just a friend ex when I asked him whether she needed to be in his life. If yes, then I would follow her example and go out and find a boyfriend for myself. But he and I could remain friends, you know.


This is a way in which men and women are very different. Men who are hanging around an attached woman are generally interested in sex, not attention of other types.


----------



## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

LonelyGuy69 said:


> I've had an issue recently where I became confused with a woman's behaviour toward me. I've managed to deal with it, but I was wondering have any guys had a opposite sex friendship that either they mistook the woman's friendliness for more, or where you were in a relationship and your partner objected to or asked you to stop the friendship?


I had the opposite problem. At work I was working on a team with a woman who I honestly thought was just being friendly. We got along well and communicated efficiently over IM regarding the project. It didn't dawn on me that she was mistaken our working relationship for more than it was until after she had left the organization.


----------



## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Poster named LonelyGuy69 starts a thread with a concern regarding OSFs.

Oh the irony!


----------



## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

You can read my thread labeled mymistake in my sig regarding some of these issues with the last GF.. 

In the end everyone of them wanted to fvck her and take my seat.. Her answer was I am a woman and know what they want and can control it.. You need to trust me. I shouldn't feel so insecure and trust her.. 

BUT get ready...

I couldn't have female friends with the same feeling because I am a guy and guys will fvck anything that moves.. 

Double standard much ?


Any person that has too many opposite sex friends clearly has an issue..

I think that any person that has OSF should have the common sense to outline and bring this up ASAP with their SO and clear the air with everyone involved.. 

EG.. I see nothing wrong with me the SO and the OSF and their BF/Husband going out to dinner and clearing the air there.. Have the other OSF bf or husband relate how he had issues but is comfortable in the friendship and if any issue ever arrised that my SO should feel comfortable calling him.. 

If I love the person I am with I would do anything to make them feel comfortable.. 

BTW no person in my life is more important than the person I love.. I have great friends but none of them ever rubbed my head when I was sick.. But my Exwife did..


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Hardtohandle said:


> Any person that has too many opposite sex friends clearly has an issue..


I totally agree with that statement!!! You can take it to the bank and cash it.

Having just gone through this nightmare with my now ex-fiance, OSF are not worth the trouble.

Every tight couple that I know, you always think of them as a pair. Unthinkable to see them with another person for lunches and dinners. That's not a coincidence....


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

OSF are a real hot button issue. My best friend is a guy--I met him while I was separated and preparing to file for divorce, and we've been friends for about 2 years now.

I will admit... I liked him when I first met him. I harbored some feelings for him early on, and a few months after meeting him, I professed my romantic interest because I wanted to see if it was mutual. It wasn't.

Things were awkward for a little bit, but we were able to get our friendship back on track, and I adjusted my perception of the situation. And as I got to know him, I realized that I would never want to be in a relationship with him. He's an amazing friend, but he is HORRIBLE at relationships, and we are simply not compatible. It would have gone down in flames if he had gone with it when I hit on him.

And we've evolved into something better, kind of like siblings, or maybe like friends from childhood. He tends to be protective of me, kind of like a big brother, and we just like hanging out and having fun. If he gets an extra ticket for something, or someone else bails on plans, I'm the first person he calls, and vice versa. But there will never be anything romantic between us.

He's had one serious girlfriend since we've become friends, and it was really important to him that she and I met and got along. (Oddly enough, I was the only one of his friends that she actually liked or really talked to. I really liked her. I was sad that they broke up.) While they were dating, he and I rarely did anything just the two of us--it was mostly the two of them, with me tagging along. And I've been dating, but nothing yet serious enough to "bring home" to meet him. But it will be really important to me that he and any partner I have get along--I want them to be friends, too. And obviously, if I'm partnered up, I won't be doing as much one-on-one with him, not by a long shot.

That being said, if I was in a LTR, there is NO WAY that I would develop this sort of OSF. It requires a lot of time and a fair amount of emotional investment to build a strong friendship (well, it does for me, anyway, lucky introvert that I am), and if I'm in a LTR, that will siphon time and emotion away from my partner. I'll keep my OSF BFF in my life because the foundation is already there, and I'm not going to eject him from my life because I now have a LTR partner; I would have the same expectations/parameters for any future LTR partner. Old OSFs can stay, but I think new OSFs are pretty much out, with the obvious exception of me getting to know my partner's male friends, and my partner getting to know my female friends, since I assume we would be merging social circles a bit.

But ultimately, you need to be able to trust your partner, and you have to be trustworthy as well. Because it doesn't really matter whether another female (an OSF) is attracted to my partner or not; what REALLY matters is if I can trust my partner to maintain boundaries and not mess around with that person. I have to be able to trust my partner to end an OSF if one of his OSFs makes a pass at him, because our relationship is his priority. If any male OSF makes a pass at me, I'm dropping him like a hot potato, ESPECIALLY if I'm in a relationship. I don't need that BS in my life.


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Having gone through the OSF ordeal with my fiance, OSFs in a committed relationship is a place I'll never go again.


If my GF/fiance/wife is requires texting/lunches/dinners with another guy in her life beyond family then I'll pass.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jdawg2015 said:


> Having gone through the OSF ordeal with my fiance, OSFs in a committed relationship is a place I'll never go again.
> 
> 
> If my GF/fiance/wife is requires texting/lunches/dinners with another guy in her life beyond family then I'll pass.


And that's fine if this is your boundary. Many have it an we all have a right to choose what works for us. I see your statement and think if my finance wanted to control access to my friends I'll pass. Everyone sees it differently


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> And that's fine if this is your boundary. Many have it an we all have a right to choose what works for us. I see your statement and think if my finance wanted to control access to my friends I'll pass. Everyone sees it differently


I agree. If a guy tries/wants to control who I can hang out with and see (ie, he wants to control my behavior), that says to me that he can't trust me to establish my own boundaries and control myself. That he doesn't trust me to prioritize our relationship without him forcing me to prioritize the relationship.

That being said, I understand why some people feel the way that jdawg does. Some people have been cheated on, and they feel the only way to keep that from happening is to limit their partner's access to members of the opposite sex.

(Personally, I don't think that's an effective strategy. a cheater's gonna cheat, no matter what rules/restrictions you place on them. I would rather just choose a partner that I can fully trust, than choose a partner I cannot trust and then try to control them. The latter seems much too difficult and complicated.)


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

I think the issue is not "fully trusting" really anyone anymore.

I'd wager that very few people see their OSF boundaries as a control strategy, but rather as a self protection method. 

HOW those boundaries are enforced is key. Finding someone with similar boundaries requires no control. Recognizing incompatible boundaries and trying to make them compatible likely requires control.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

zillard said:


> I think the issue is not "fully trusting" really anyone anymore.
> 
> I'd wager that very few people see their OSF boundaries as a control strategy, but rather as a self protection method.
> 
> ...


True, but these boundaries require controlling the partner in order to self-protect. The partner who wants to self-protect is pretty much forcing their partner to take on the emotional responsibility for their own insecurity, and that strikes me as unfair. As in, "You're expecting me to change MY behavior because YOU'RE insecure?" That simply doesn't compute for me, and sounds pretty unhealthy.

Even if one partner sees it as self-protection, that doesn't make it any less controlling.

But you're right, if the two partners have the same boundaries, then the control issue doesn't come up.


----------



## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Sure. Expecting someone with different boundaries to change to suit your own boundaries can definitely be controlling. 

However, do/dont do this is different than I'm not OK with this. So...

Expecting someone with different boundaries to be OK with your behavior that crosses their boundaries can also be controlling. 

Most people with differ somewhat. Some adaptation and compromise is usually necessary. Good communication on boundaries early on can prevent a lot of trouble later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

zillard said:


> I think the issue is not "fully trusting" really anyone anymore.
> 
> I'd wager that very few people see their OSF boundaries as a control strategy, but rather as a self protection method.
> 
> ...


Not how I view it.

If I am going to be married to a woman who has multiple men who she wants to have dinner with, 2 hour lunchs with (and does not work with them) etc then you have to ask yourself why? 

And there is no control here at all. She decides to agree or not. If she wants me, the orbiters go away. They stay, I go. Her choice.

There 's only so many hours in the week after you deduct time working, sleeping, grocery shopping, gym, commuting, etc. So if that OSF is so necessary then go be with them. Plenty of other happily committed people to be with.

Too many OSFs is a gigantic red flag that I'll pass on every time.

I've been around way to much to see the OSF crap that goes on. Buyer beware to those who choose that path.


----------



## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> But ultimately, you need to be able to trust your partner, *and you have to be trustworthy as well*. Because it doesn't really matter whether another female (an OSF) is attracted to my partner or not; what REALLY matters is if I can trust my partner to maintain boundaries and not mess around with that person. I have to be able to trust my partner to end an OSF if one of his OSFs makes a pass at him, because our relationship is his priority. If any male OSF makes a pass at me, I'm dropping him like a hot potato, ESPECIALLY if I'm in a relationship. I don't need that BS in my life.


This last statement is BIG for me. It hits home in a very hard way for me as it really relates to my own past relationship.. 
I walk away reading this and saying I'm not fvcking crazy.. I'm not fvcking crazy.. 

And I thank you for it..


----------



## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

jdawg2015 said:


> Not how I view it.
> 
> If I am going to be married to a woman who has multiple men who she wants to have dinner with, 2 hour lunchs with (and does not work with them) etc then you have to ask yourself why?
> 
> ...


Anyone who follows my thread can attest the sh!t I was dealing with.. 

I cannot imagine I was that fvcking dumb.. The amount of fights I had with the ExGF over this stuff.. 

The mentality she had that this was okay and I should accept it.. I just couldn't walk away at that time.. I eventually did but it was almost 2 years later and it was literally several fights a week over something dealing with another man.. 

What the fvck was going through my head.. I don't even understand.. I plan my life days, weeks, months, years ahead and I couldn't grasp these issues with my ExGF.. Well I did but instead of just walking away I fought with her for her to see it my way..


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Hardtohandle said:


> Anyone who follows my thread can attest the sh!t I was dealing with..
> 
> I cannot imagine I was that fvcking dumb.. The amount of fights I had with the ExGF over this stuff..
> 
> ...


I like data. And I have a network of mostly married friends. Many of them 15-20+ years married. 

Of the ones who have the best marriages, NONE of those couples go out with OSFs or our close to anyone other than their soouse. 

So people who want to defend close OSFs while in a relationship, or even worse while married, are speaking to deaf ears if they want to convince me that it's normal. It's not.


----------



## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

jdawg2015 said:


> I like data. And I have a network of mostly married friends. Many of them 15-20+ years married.
> 
> Of the ones who have the best marriages, NONE of those couples go out with OSFs or our close to anyone other than their soouse.
> 
> So people who want to defend close OSFs while in a relationship, or even worse while married, are speaking to deaf ears if they want to convince me that it's normal. It's not.


I have to say I am blessed with many friends myself. All are married but me and another divorced friend.. 

But I do not know anyone who has OSF.. I mean the wives of my friends are OSF I guess.. But they are married to my friends..


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Hardtohandle said:


> I have to say I am blessed with many friends myself. All are married but me and another divorced friend..
> 
> But I do not know anyone who has OSF.. I mean the wives of my friends are OSF I guess.. But they are married to my friends..


That's what I mean. My friends have wives who became friends with me and my exW. But the thought of calling, texting, dinner, drinks, etc with any of them would be unthinkable.

The OSF thing for me is a non-starter for me.


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Personal said:


> So far, I've been happily married to my sexual partner of 19 years for over 16 years. In all of this time I have had other sex friends and my wife has to date not ever had a problem with that. Of course with time being limited I don't see many of them that often these days.
> 
> That said, as an example one of my other sex friends is an attractive single never married 50yo woman who I have known for 23 years (my wife has known her for 19 years). Over that time before I met my wife we would on occasion date as purely platonic friends usually between partners although there were times when we'd catch up whenever we were partnered as well inclusive of the odd double date together as well.
> 
> ...


And what if your wife befriended a "guy friend" who texts her multiple nights a week? Or who sent private FB messages. 
And what if there were multiple of those types of guys coming around?
And what if you knew those men were interested in more than friendship from you wife?

Just saying OSFs is ok is blatantly obtuse to the myriad of issues that can occur with such "friendships". It's not one size fits all.


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Personal said:


> Yet that is a problem that some people face and others don't, it all depends on the people involved nothing more nothing less.


As long as you can acknowledge that OSFs can be loaded with potential landmines.

Some people refuse to accept that not OSFs are acceptable.

I don't care how much my partner has for boundaries, if I know a guy was interested in her and she did not cut him immediately I would question her judgement. 

This aspect of the conversation gets left out of the conversation quite often. 

In many OSF relationships, one or the other "friend" can have an attraction that is not healthy to a relationship. I refuse to bury my head to the reality.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

jdawg2015 said:


> As long as you can acknowledge that OSFs can be loaded with potential landmines.
> 
> Some people refuse to accept that not OSFs are acceptable.
> 
> ...


I don't think that those of us who say "OSFs are ok" are burying our heads to reality. I think we all realize there's a risk involved in taking this stance. 

I think it's like gambling. Some people can't be trusted to go to a casino or the track or whatever, because they'll lose the shirt off their back, the house, and the kids' college fund. That person's partner should eliminate ALL risk and say, you are NEVER going to the casino (and because I'm you partner, I won't go either).

But there are many people who can go to the casino and say, ok, we're doing this for the entertainment value. As soon as we hit our ceiling of $200, we're leaving and we won't be back for another year. And they stick to those boundaries they've set for themselves--not imposed by another person--and so their partner can trust them not to gamble away the life savings.

The second group just mitigates the risk. They know it's there, but they focus on the individual's behavior, rather than determining that all gambling is evil and should be stopped at any cost.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jdawg2015 said:


> As long as you can acknowledge that OSFs can be loaded with potential landmines.
> 
> Some people refuse to accept that not OSFs are acceptable.
> 
> ...


What you are describing doesn't even sound like friendship. It sounds like an inappropriate relationship. I don't flirt with my OSf and they don't flirt with me. That would be grossly inappropriate. If I broke off with my now Gf I still wouldn't flirt with them or date them because I am not interested in them like that and they aren't interested in me like that. That's a friendship. What your describing is not a friendship. This also goes for x spouse or x boyfriends. Those are never "just friends" so they need to go. 

And really as others have said all this starts in finding a good partner anyway. My x wife had NO OSF....she cheated anyway with a coworker. Cheaters are going to cheat.


----------



## bkyln309 (Feb 1, 2015)

I have a OSF who has been a lifesaver for me as a single mom. He really is into my kids and helps me fix stuff around the house. 

We started as friends as I was married and he was living with my friend and coworker. We stayed friends because we are in the same field. Then when our relationships broke up, we got closer as people. He started to have an interest but I simply told him I have no attraction to you. You are like a brother. After that, things went back to normal and we havent had a problem since.

I am dating someone who knows fully the friendship I have with my OSF. He knows the whole story and he trusts what I tell him. It hasnt been a problem.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> What you are describing doesn't even sound like friendship. It sounds like an inappropriate relationship. I don't flirt with my OSf and they don't flirt with me. That would be grossly inappropriate. If I broke off with my now Gf I still wouldn't flirt with them or date them because I am not interested in them like that and they aren't interested in me like that. That's a friendship. What your describing is not a friendship. This also goes for x spouse or x boyfriends. Those are never "just friends" so they need to go.
> 
> And really as others have said all this starts in finding a good partner anyway. My x wife had NO OSF....she cheated anyway with a coworker. Cheaters are going to cheat.


QFT. Hits the nail on the head.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

I think one problem you see, thanks to social media/texting, it is very easy for constant contact. I don't know at what point it becomes appropriate, but I would think if you are in a relationship and your SO is frequently answering text/FB messages in general it can get quite annoying (it can get annoying when my wife and I are spending time together and her text/fb sounds keep going off). Throw in if it is an OSF, and yeah, this frequent contact starts to take on a new meaning. 

I think I mentioned before, but not 100% how I would respond. My wife and I have zero reason to not trust each other (never been cheated on, etc...). I definitely had more OSFs when we originally started dating but that eventually went away (not by choice per se, just something that happened as we moved on with life, etc...). At this point though where neither of us have OSFs that aren't the friends of the other as well, my gut tells me I would view this as a huge red flag if my wife suddenly showed up with an OSF (and i imagine she would feel the same likewise). My wife is very attractive, in great shape, etc... and TBH if some guy befriended her at this point he has something else in mind. I completely trust her, so that is not the issue. I wouldn't trust him though, that is where the protective side of me would kick in.

Really I think both persons in the relationship just need to be on the same page with OSFs. If they are not, it is going to be a huge problem. I also think it is huge in looking at when the OSF starts (prior to the relationship, happens while in a relationship, etc...)


----------



## 4x4 (Apr 15, 2014)

STBX and I always had OSFs and never any problem with it. Mostly OSFs met through the workplace. Even after years of being in a pretty sexless marriage I never once thought to cross boundaries with any of them. Sometimes I'd go to lunch, or a very rare quick after work drink, with them alone or in groups with or without other males. I never thought twice about it, they were just coworkers to pass an hour with over lunchtime. I don't flirt with them and don't let them flirt with me. Color me crazy, but I find it painfully easy to keep any OSF at a distance. 

Boundaries, either you have them or you don't. I wouldn't get involved with someone that I didn't trust to have the same boundaries. I also wouldn't mind if my spouse asked me to cut loose an OSF because family is more important than friends.


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I think guys having female friends is a good and very healthy thing.

But if you have a wife or serious gf relationship, having female friends isn't such a great idea and many woman go for guys that are taken because they are a catch and are taken.

They want what they can't have, so they are touchy, flirty, give mixed signals and try to get you with sex.

If the ladies are really friends, and not trying to get you, you'll know.



Do I have female friends? No. Male co workers and only a few female co workers for the most part.

Does Mrs.CuddleBug have male friends? No. Mainly females and only some male co workers for the most part.


Would it bother Mrs.Cuddlebug if I had female friends that texted and emailed me and I went out with?

YES!!!!


The point of getting married it to spend your life with your hubby or wifee and not still hang, chat and party with those opposite sex friends when you were single.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm a little worried about this with our son right now.. he hasn't been spending enough time with his GF (and will soon be going off to college).......she felt she cared more (we had a few conversations over months past)... enter a good looking guy friend who ...well.. would be an awesome catch.. he's funny, he is always there to answer her texts.. he likes the same stuff.... the kicker is.. it's one of our son's good friends...(oh they all go to youth group together!).... so we have a triangle here going on.. should be interesting to see how it plays out.. 

(though as a Mother, I am worried how this may affect him loosing the love of his life - when he is almost 2 hrs away at college)...

Son has been with GF for almost 4 yrs.. (both 1st loves)... I've been getting on his case a couple times that I felt he needed to be more supportive/ go to her house more, type thing.. like on Thanksgiving, she makes the effort to come to our house.. (she always does). .. all she wanted was him to go to her Grandmothers.... and he blew her off.. I seen the "disappointment" on her face.. I was SO mad at him... In my opinion. .. son has been screwing up ! ...so not surprised something LIKE THIS could happen.. hopefully he won't be singing Bruno Mars "When I was your man" ..with soul wrenching regret ...very hard lesson ..if so..... 

This guy friend was hanging out with them both playing Frisbee golf..(they all enjoy it).... then one day son didn't answer the text.. they went out alone.. had his Grad party the other day.. she was hanging around HIM a lot.. yeah.. Hoping its not the beginning of the end.. but once the dopamine kicks in.. it's a slippery slope....

If any breaches are in a relationship .. enter another Opposite sex friend who COULD , has the potential to fulfill (add physical attraction)..... Yep.. very much a slippery slope...


----------



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm sure it depends on how one defines friend. When i was married, I had female coworkers, women I went to church with, and women i had known all my life that I considered friends; however, I didn't hang out with them, buy them birthday gifts, call to chat, or take a trip to Graceland together because we were both Elvis fans. To me, it wasn't even a matter of fear of an affair. For the sake of argument, let's say that would never happen, but why give all that attention to another woman when I had a wife? It just seems tacky.

I've had experience with cattle, and when we placed a bull with a herd of cattle for breeding purposes, we never had to worry if he would pass over some because he was "just friends" with them.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

@SimplyAmorous -- this may be a lesson he needs to learn on his own, unfortunately. If he doesn't appreciate her enough to meet her needs, he may need to lose her to learn this lesson. And then maybe he'll be a better partner to his next girlfriend.

And don't bite your tongue. Be the first person to say, "I told you so..."


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

FeministInPink said:


> @SimplyAmorous -- this may be a lesson he needs to learn on his own, unfortunately. If he doesn't appreciate her enough to meet her needs, he may need to lose her to learn this lesson. And then maybe he'll be a better partner to his next girlfriend.
> 
> And don't bite your tongue. Be the first person to say, "I told you so..."


ME bite my tongue ...ha ha ha.. (hard to do around your core family members anyway).... I believe he understands I mean well.. but I have definitely gotten under his skin a couple times.... I have as much told him, I don't care if he gets mad at me -cause it's for his own well being.. and his GF... I care about them both...I needed him to understand how she was feeling.. to not be neglectful... all this *before* this friend entered the picture.... he hangs with one of her brothers also. 

Yes.. I have to let them make their own mistakes... 

At this point I have looked upon this girl as one of those "Unicorns"...(I have to get this out of my head..we are all unique - there is no perfect anyone)... she has it all.... Smart (2nd in her class), affectionate, Fit, into sports (they met in cross country), she hunts, she's a go getter.. Loves kids, has been so faithful, so into him.. not a flirt, stunning... honest with him (even about this -as much as I can gather)... they are trying to work it out... 

He has chosen his college so they will be together the next year (she is a year behind)... it all seemed it was meant to fall into place.. is this a bump in the road to WAKE him up (if so, it has it's purpose!)... or nearing the end of a season they shared..... time will tell that story... 

This friend IS a wonderful guy though... I haven't got a word to say against him...sat & talked with him like 2 hrs the other night at our son's Grad party... which makes this doubly difficult... I pretty much know if she lets him go.. THEY (GF & this friend) will be caring towards how this is handled.. 

How does a relationship 1st love this long not end messy though.. I think too much.. they have not broke up yet.. I just know enough about opposite sex friends getting close to KNOW what can happen...

After all.. my Mothers best friend was right there when her & my dad were having problems.. she became the new wife ! (for that situation... she was a landslide better match though).. funny how it was missed all through high school.. as step Mom dated & married my dad's best friend ! Now THAT was a messy love triangle !


----------

