# MIL can't forgive



## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

Update: I found out that my wife was having an EA , last year, as most of you know that have read my threads. Our re-conciliation was/is going great, and we are looking forward to adopting a child this year. My wife is truly a remarkable woman and has become absolutely the most honest and loving wife a man can hope for. She has begun a new job with our church, counseling wives on marital problems and has returned to school to get her masters. We spend so much more time together than we did, that it almost seems like we are newlyweds, again. Our sex life is exstasy, and our communication is better than it has ever been. We have bought a building in Downtown Chicago and are turning it into a townhouse. There is only one cloud on our horizon and that is my mother-in-law. She was brought up in a very strict Religious family, and has never been able to forgive my wife/her daughter for the affair, so that now we are estranged from her. It hurts my wife terribly and has been one of the biggest obstacles towards rebuilding my wife's self-esteem. IDK how many times my wife has called her and asked just to talk with her, but MIL refuses and then berates her (wife). I feel so sorry for my wife, and have tried my best to make my MIL understand that I've completely forgiven her and that there was nothing sexual involved, but she always apologizes to me for having such a **** for a daughter, and then says how wonderful I am to have forgiven her. She (MIL) has such a rigid mindset that IDK when, if ever, she will relent. Has anyone else had this problem? The affair is over and done with, reconciliation has taken place, but one or more of the families simply will not let it rest.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Dow~

I'm so sorry your MIL is behaving like this. Is is conceivable that she may be one who hardens her heart and it's iced over, and she takes a long while to thaw...so it may not be hopeless. Nonetheless I empathize with your wife and am all too familiar with the desire to have a mother who loves you and who just doesn't. 

In my life my mom was the one who physically abused me, and over the years we've come to be able to speak and have an okay relationship...but let's face it--it's not nurturing acceptance like you want from your mothers. One thing I've learned that has helped me tremendously is that sometimes we are born/brought into this world through one woman...and that woman is not perfect...yet God does bring "mothers" into our lives when we need a loving older woman in our lives. My exH's mother-in-law was very much like a mother to me, and my Dear Hubby's mom is becoming a mother. I've had closer older ladies from church. My aunt has always been a rock of stable, thoughtful, kind, loving women for me. So I've had my "mom" and I've had mothers in my life. 

I hope your MIL comes around soon though....


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hi Dow, personally I feel that your MIL is exhibiting despicable behaviour. It never ceases to amaze me how those who are Religious, most especially Christians, do not forgive. It seems the more Religious they are, the more of a “believer” the less they are able to forgive. And they just end up bitter and resentful people, life’s self professed victims.

I’d guess that your MIL believes that her daughter has brought shame on her family. And that your MIL’s punishment for her daughter for her “crime” is in not forgiving her. So in her maladjusted, malicious and vindictive way your MIL is actually persecuting her own daughter. Her persecution of her own daughter will more than likely go on for years if not decades.

Two suggestions. Get someone to do a sermon on Forgiveness in the Church your MIL attends. But I very much doubt ANYTHING will change your MIL’s fundamental belief’s and values re forgiveness. Not even a traumatic event concerning herself or any of her loved ones. I’ve seen it, witnessed it.

So the second thing is with your wife. This probably deeply affects her. She will need telling and convincing that this is not about her (your wife), it is about her mother. Your wife will need to let go of any value she places on what her mother thinks about her. If she doesn’t do that in the medium to long term your wife’s self-esteem will be greatly affected.

Bob


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Give it time, I myself take a long time to foregive and have family that crossed the line. I determined on that day I would distance myself from them however I do not prevent my family from contact with them. It takes time and is one of the consequences of adultery, your wife needs to go about life as normal. Do not let this affect the relationship between you with your MIL and do not take sides. We all heal at a different pace.

Let the wounds heal on their own .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

maybe shes got a history of her own, who knows?

besides that, u need to study up on yer Word and present these
and maybe some teleEvangilists DVDs on the subject of forgiveness etc.

she'll come around quickly or eventually or shes no Christian or 
at least not one who's presently "tight" with Jesus. for His 
followers are a very humble bunch when it comes to truth, or
the topic of forgiveness.

shalom.......


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

cb45 said:


> maybe shes got a history of her own, who knows?
> 
> besides that, u need to study up on yer Word and present these
> and maybe some teleEvangilists DVDs on the subject of forgiveness etc.
> ...


Aye, let those without sin be the first to cast a stone and all that.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

She sees her affair as reflecting badly on her. Believes she failed to raise your wife right if she can cheat.

Right or wrong, that is the spot she's in.

I'll bet she feels as though her daughter offended her in addition to you, her husband.

Maybe she wants your wife to approach her and ask for forgiveness?

And seeing that, her heart has hardened?

Maybe the kind of selfishness your wife indulged in was something she learned at home? And that bothers her mom enough to lash out instead of think of how to not be selfish?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

To be unforgiving, closed, hateful and disliking takes as much emotional energy, if not more, as it does to understand and forgive but they have exceedingly different outcomes. People are bound by their hatred, freed by their forgiveness.

Both are active, and conscious options. People only become aware of what they’ve “done” much later, on reflection. Basically when they become aware they’ve well and truly alienated some they loved and someone who loved and cared for them. But even then, some never get there and blame everyone else but themselves.

Bob


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your wife made a poor choice. She has to live with the consequences of her choice. She is not entitled to anyone's forgiveness. Being accountable and living with the results of her choices will build her self esteem. Forcing her strict religious mother to compromise mom's core values in my opinion will reduce your wife's self esteem.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hicks said:


> Your wife made a poor choice. She has to live with the consequences of her choice. She is not entitled to anyone's forgiveness. Being accountable and living with the results of her choices will build her self esteem. Forcing her strict religious mother to compromise mom's core values in my opinion will reduce your wife's self esteem.


Dow’s wife has already “done the time for her crime”. Although it seems her mother wants to punish her still. Where is I wonder her unconditional love for her daughter?

Unforgiving people are pure persecutors in that no amount of “time for the crime” is “good enough for them”.

And in that regard the persecution by an unforgiving person is close to being pure evil.

Bob


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Dowjones, I just finished reading up on your situation. First off, your wife was not just having an EA, it was a PA as well since she had sex with the OM, her coworker, several times. She ended up confessing to her family, your family, her boss, and lost her job. This was only last October.

From your thread:


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/17591-big-fight-trickle-truth-3.html

_10-17-2010, 10:09 PM_

_Now I realize that I'm married to somebody who has repeatedly lied, and has had sex twice with another man._

Is there a reason that you are now saying that there was nothing sexual involved?

That was ONLY 7 months ago! She has disgraced her family, and that takes some time to mend. Some families forgive quickly, some don't. Would you rather have had her family enable and facilitate her affair? Because that's what a lot of families do because blood is thicker than water. Her own mother held her accountable for her affair, which is more than many others do. 

So please don't say MIL wont forgive her, it hasn't even been a year yet. Eventually, she will because blood is thicker than water. It takes time.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

This is an interesting one. I can relate to the feeling like you are newlyweds all over again, with phenomenal sex, renewed commitment, etc. That part of your post sounded just like me. Only, in my case the A was E only, no P. And D day was only 2 weeks ago. It's a weird, euphoric, precarious place to be, isn't it? I know bad feelings will return, and the ride isn't over, but I understand that place very well. I'm in it now.

Regarding her mother, I think she just needs to let her mom either get over it or disown her. She can't convince her to forgive. If it were me, I would say, "Mom, my husband and I have reconciled. We are doing great. When you are ready to be a part of our lives again, we will welcome you with open arms. Until then, your energy is just too negative and damaging to our marriage. I love you. Hope to hear from you soon. Goodbye."


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> This is an interesting one. I can relate to the feeling like you are newlyweds all over again, with phenomenal sex, renewed commitment, etc. That part of your post sounded just like me. Only, in my case the A was E only, no P. And D day was only 2 weeks ago. It's a weird, euphoric, precarious place to be, isn't it? I know bad feelings will return, and the ride isn't over, but I understand that place very well. I'm in it now.


This period is known as Hysterical Bonding.

SurvivingInfidelity.com - Support for those affected by Infidelity

Upon being confronted with the undeniable reality that their most trusted spouse has betrayed them with another, some BS's experience an overwhelming sexual desire for their wayward spouse. Many couples claim to have had the best, most intense and loving sex of their relationship during the period following the discovery of an affair, (generally a few weeks to several months), often trying new things and experimenting in ways they had never considered before. This phenomenon is termed "Hysterical Bonding. 

There is very little information on this phenomenon, but it appears to be a primal, instinctual way for the partners to reconnect and reclaim each other. While it may feel counter-intuitive to the BS; as if they are "rewarding" the WS for the affair, hysterical bonding can be a stepping stone to reconciliation. The intimacy encourages communication and a closeness that may otherwise take some time to re-build. 

The occurrence or absence of hysterical bonding does not appear to be an indicator of successful reconciliation. Many other factors, such as the WS's remorse and openness are far more reliable indicators. Hysterical bonding is, however, normal, and nothing for the BS to be alarmed about or ashamed about experiencing. In fact, it has been said it is the one positive in an otherwise long and miserable experience, so enjoy it while it lasts!


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

AFEH said:


> Dow’s wife has already “done the time for her crime”. Although it seems her mother wants to punish her still. Where is I wonder her unconditional love for her daughter?
> 
> Unforgiving people are pure persecutors in that no amount of “time for the crime” is “good enough for them”.
> 
> ...


Calling the mother pure evil for what you call persecution is a bit strong, IMHO.

It's only been 7 months since this awful behavior has been aired.

None of us knows what this mother and daughter has gone through together.

I would not characterize her unwillingness to let go of her anger and disappointment in barely half a year as "never" forgiving.

For many people it takes years to resolve traumatic issues.

Does this mean I condone hurtful behavior? No!

I do find it interesting that you don't call having the affair "pure evil", just the reaction to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

lordmayhem said:


> Dowjones, I just finished reading up on your situation. First off, your wife was not just having an EA, it was a PA as well since she had sex with the OM, her coworker, several times. She ended up confessing to her family, your family, her boss, and lost her job. This was only last October.
> 
> From your thread:
> 
> ...


Actually Mayhem, the physical part was kissing only, she refused to have sex with him, after he assaulted her. I am completely convinced this is what happened. From talking to my wife, the coworker, and HIS wife, I've gotten a pretty much minute by minute account of all that happened. The trickle truth issue has long been settled by counseling. When I wrote that post, I was very angry and jumped to a lot of conclusions, that later proved wrong. My wife was a very confused, sad, young woman, who thought that she was useless, because she cannot conceive a child. Her sense of self-worth was as low as I've seen. That she has "womaned up", and confessed to all including her employer, "who promptly fired both her and coworker", and that she has undergone counseling and is working hard to improve herself and become a wife to be proud of, shows , more than anything, that she is a person of character. Every day, every minute , she continues to prove her trustworthiness. I know where she is and who she is with at all times, and rather than resent this, she believes it makes us closer. So there is no reason why my MIL should continue to degrade her. IMO.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

michzz said:


> Calling the mother pure evil for what you call persecution is a bit strong, IMHO.
> 
> It's only been 7 months since this awful behavior has been aired.
> 
> ...


But surely when a mother will not forgive her daughter the mother is sending an exceedingly powerful message that she hates and despises her daughter? And that therefore she is persecuting her daughter with her hatred for her? For me that’s evil.

It takes conscious, active effort to hate and despise a person enough to not forgive them.

And it takes conscious active effort to understand and eventually forgive a person.

In seven months the MIL should have worked her way through it, if her way is the way of forgiveness. More especially so because it is her daughter. And in any case what type of mother is she that could hate and despise her daughter so much no matter what she’s done to the point where she will not forgive her?



Both to Forgive and to Not Forgive are a choice that people make. Guess who winds up the bitter and resentful old biddy sitting in judgement of everyone but themselves?

Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Dowjones said:


> Actually Mayhem, the physical part was kissing only, she refused to have sex with him, after he assaulted her. I am completely convinced this is what happened. From talking to my wife, the coworker, and HIS wife, I've gotten a pretty much minute by minute account of all that happened. The trickle truth issue has long been settled by counseling. When I wrote that post, I was very angry and jumped to a lot of conclusions, that later proved wrong. My wife was a very confused, sad, young woman, who thought that she was useless, because she cannot conceive a child. Her sense of self-worth was as low as I've seen. That she has "womaned up", and confessed to all including her employer, "who promptly fired both her and coworker", and that she has undergone counseling and is working hard to improve herself and become a wife to be proud of, shows , more than anything, that she is a person of character. Every day, every minute , she continues to prove her trustworthiness. I know where she is and who she is with at all times, and rather than resent this, she believes it makes us closer. So there is no reason why my MIL should continue to degrade her. IMO.


Good to hear you’re both doing well Dow.

It is a pity about your MIL. These unforgiving people just don’t know the immense amount of damage they do to others. And they don’t understand the immense amount of damage they do to themselves.

Forgiveness is a choice and I for one based on my life’s experiences think forgiveness is the better choice. Without it people are bound by their hatred, not by their love and understanding.

Unforgiving people just don’t get “To err is human, to forgive divine” (Pope).

_The basic meaning of Pope’s line is that any human can make a mistake, so we should try to forgive them, just as God is said to show divine mercy and forgive "sinners"._

That's what I don't get about these Religious people, why don't they actually live by their God's teachings?

Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Why not suggest to your wife that she write her mother a note along the lines of ….

“I realise that my behaviour has caused you embarrassment and sadness and for that I am sorry. Please know that I love you even though you despise me such that you cannot find it in your heart to forgive me. Although I don’t understand it, know that I do wholly and unreservedly forgive you for despising me. But until you can find it in your heart to forgive me, I will have no further contact with you”.

Boib


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

When the chips were down the MIL opposed the affair and will likely oppose a future one, perhaps she sees and knows a lot more about her daughter than is said on this thread and is being cautious. It is offensive to say things about the MIL, to judge her actions against her faith, she did not have the affair, so what if her healing process is different and not on the same timeline. She may chose never to foregive that is her choice and knocking her is wholly inappropriate. Her faith and her terms to give foregiveness are between the daughter and herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> When the chips were down the MIL opposed the affair and will likely oppose a future one, perhaps she sees and knows a lot more about her daughter than is said on this thread and is being cautious. It is offensive to say things about the MIL, to her judge her actions against her faith, she did not have the affair, so what if her healing process is different and not on the same timeline. She may chose never to foregive that is her choice and knocking her is wholly inappropriate. Her faith and her terms to give foregiveness are between the daughter and herself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But surely this is a place to express "opinions" especially when someone like Dow is posting and asking for help?

In my opinion there are basically two types of people in the world as far as forgiveness is concerned. There are those that forgive and those that don’t forgive. And in my experience those that don’t forgive are the one’s who profess to live their lives by their God’s teachings. They hear the words, but they don’t understand them and they most certainly don’t live by them. And they are the most bitter and resentful people I have ever known.

If you had witnessed the total devastation and complete and utter carnage created in 100s of people’s lives by an unforgiven person from an unforgiving family you would know without a doubt how I stick by my conviction of being and acting as a forgiving person. Believe me, you would know.

I thought you would be one to take offence of my opinions, my beliefs and values.

Bob


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## MisguidedMiscreant (Dec 28, 2010)

Although a Christian should be more forgiving and less judgmental, your MIL is justified to be angry just as you are. Your wife shamed her family with her actions. The MIL probably doesn't have a past as someone earlier said, she's probably what I call an Old Testament Christian.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Eli-Zor said:


> When the chips were down the MIL opposed the affair and will likely oppose a future one, perhaps she sees and knows a lot more about her daughter than is said on this thread and is being cautious. It is offensive to say things about the MIL, to judge her actions against her faith, she did not have the affair, so what if her healing process is different and not on the same timeline. She may chose never to foregive that is her choice and knocking her is wholly inappropriate. Her faith and her terms to give foregiveness are between the daughter and herself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I could just as easily have written:

"If you had witnessed the total devastation and complete and utter carnage created in 100s of people’s lives by an cheating person from a cheating family you would know without a doubt how I stick by my conviction of being and acting as a noncheating person. Believe me, you would know."

It remains interesting to me that you would label a person as pure evil who has not forgiven a really offensive thing in such a short period of time but refuse to label as pure evil the cheating itself.

You see being offended by cheating as WORSE than actually cheating.

And yes, don't be surprised I would call out the discrepancy.

My sticking point is the description of "pure evil".



AFEH said:


> If you had witnessed the total devastation and complete and utter carnage created in 100s of people’s lives by an unforgiven person from an unforgiving family you would know without a doubt how I stick by my conviction of being and acting as a forgiving person. Believe me, you would know.
> 
> I thought you would be one to take offence of my opinions, my beliefs and values.
> 
> Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

michzz said:


> I could just as easily have written:
> 
> "If you had witnessed the total devastation and complete and utter carnage created in 100s of people’s lives by an cheating person from a cheating family you would know without a doubt how I stick by my conviction of being and acting as a noncheating person. Believe me, you would know."
> 
> ...


“Forgive or relive”.

Those that don’t forgive relive the traumatic event many times over. So instead of it happening “just the once” to them which is bad enough, it happens 100s or 1,000s of times! Every time they think about it, there it goes and happens again.

Where’s the sense in that?

“Forgive or relive”.

Bob


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Is this a debate now?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

michzz said:


> My sticking point is the description of "pure evil".


I think in some cases it is pure evil. I’ve witnessed that evil.

Bob


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I get hung up on unforgiving people because I've seen the devastation they cause. But I've dropped the debate.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

AFEH said:


> “Forgive or relive”.
> 
> 
> Bob


I don't see these two items as mutually exclusive.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

michzz said:


> I don't see these two items as mutually exclusive.


I've dropped the debate Michzz.


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

Thanks for all of the good replies, everyone. I feel from talking to my MIL that her anger seems to be based more on my wife's disappointing her, and "making her look bad", than on true Christian values. Mil is a perfectionist, and is very intolerant of any weakness or frailty in her kids. This might be part of the problem , in the first place. When my wife found out that she could never conceive, the person who took it the hardest ( other than my wife) was my MIL, I was a distant third. She was a perfect mom, she had perfect kids and if one of her kids did something wrongit was anybody else's fault but hers. Not to excuse my wife's conduct or my own part in our troubles, but maybe if she had been a more nurturing mom and less critical, none of this might not have happened. I feel that my MIl is less concerned about my wife and more concerned by her own self-image.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Dowjones said:


> Thanks for all of the good replies, everyone. I feel from talking to my MIL that her anger seems to be based more on my wife's disappointing her, and "making her look bad", than on true Christian values. Mil is a perfectionist, and is very intolerant of any weakness or frailty in her kids. This might be part of the problem , in the first place. When my wife found out that she could never conceive, the person who took it the hardest ( other than my wife) was my MIL, I was a distant third. She was a perfect mom, she had perfect kids and if one of her kids did something wrongit was anybody else's fault but hers. Not to excuse my wife's conduct or my own part in our troubles, but maybe if she had been a more nurturing mom and less critical, none of this might not have happened. I feel that my MIl is less concerned about my wife and more concerned by her own self-image.


Your assessment of your MIL sounds about right to me. It’s my experience that there’s nothing that can be done about it. A person is either a forgiving person or an unforgiving person. It is a matter of core values and beliefs and if not careful is the cause of massive conflict and much heartache.

But it can be used as a lesson. If both you and your wife forgive her mother then you will both be at peace inside even if MIL isn’t.

Bob


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

michzz said:


> She sees her affair as reflecting badly on her. Believes she failed to raise your wife right if she can cheat.
> 
> Right or wrong, that is the spot she's in.
> 
> ...


:iagree: with u; these are good/great insights! tks.


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

That's about how we figure it, Bob. We have told her that she is always welcome and we really want her to be a part of our family life, so now it's up to her. Maybe when the children arrive, she will be better.


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

AFEH said:


> To be unforgiving, closed, hateful and disliking takes as much emotional energy, if not more, as it does to understand and forgive but they have exceedingly different outcomes. People are bound by their hatred, freed by their forgiveness.
> 
> Both are active, and conscious options. People only become aware of what they’ve “done” much later, on reflection. Basically when they become aware they’ve well and truly alienated some they loved and someone who loved and cared for them. But even then, some never get there and blame everyone else but themselves.
> 
> Bob


succinct & 2the point.:iagree: tks.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Dowjones said:


> That's about how we figure it, Bob. We have told her that she is always welcome and we really want her to be a part of our family life, so now it's up to her. Maybe when the children arrive, she will be better.


I think that the best way for you both to tend to your inner gardens and maintain inner peace and tranquillity there. And out of that peace and tranquillity your family will blossom and grow in healthy ways.

Bob


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