# wife hides interactions with friend group



## wolfstooth (10 mo ago)

Hello, new member here.

My S/O and I have been together for nearly 25 years, married for over 20 now.

My wife has lots of people she calls friends, makes friends easily and some of the people I've met and gotten to know are quite nice. Making friends is her super power.

One small group she used to work with years ago, from what little I know of them, is marriage toxic. My SO has maintained her relationship with these prior coworkers on the down low. Two of the three in this tight knit group have been arrested for drinking and driving, and really know how to put the F-U in fun. There was also the private bachelorette party for one of them with 2 male strippers years ago (which my wife did not attend).

My SO has, for all intents and purposes, kept this group of friends and me separate and their activities secret. By that I mean she doesn't mention that they are going to do something. They are, with the exception of one, single and have been friends with my wife since before her and I met. There has never been a time that I was welcome to participate socially with this group. As a matter of fact, I get a strong sense they don't really care for me, which is prolly/maybe b/c I told her the bachelorette party was a no go.

Historically, their activities have included GNO at bars and vacations. One of them is constantly organizing "girls only" activities. My wife did go to a few GNO with them over the years but didn't stay out late. They did post pics on social media to document their fun and it looked pretty tame.

My SO does not go out on GNO to the bars with them any more and was never interested in a "girls only" vacation. To be sure, my SO would not be happy if I was going out with the boys and would be deeply hurt if there were female strippers on the itinerary. I don't do BNO, or female strippers. Nothing wrong with those that do, all relationships are different, but to me they're just pick pockets.

What's really odd is that my S/O never talks to them on the phone when I'm around, ever... over all these years. When my wife and I are out driving around, a text message notification will come on the info system in her car and she will always dismiss it without reading.

Allegedly, all this group does or tries to do, is get together once a month for lunch. My thought is, what's the big deal? Why aren't things being done in the light? Why are conversations being hidden? If there's nothing going on, why hide it? I really don't know what is going on or why this is such a big secret if there's nothing going on. It's definitely women and no men from from what I have been able to discern. 

Has anyone experienced this?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Your wife is allowed to have friends. You either trust her ethics or you don't. I don't know why a lot of men seem to think their women aren't operating with a fully functioning brain and more than capable of making their own decisions and aren't like a fawn in the woods going where the wind blows them or feeling like they have to do what their friends do. I can tell you that you can be friends with people whose actions you would not follow. Why? Because we're not lemmings. We're women. And we get to have friends.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> One small group she used to work with years ago, from what little I know of them, is marriage toxic.


I made up my mind after this comment.
"marriage toxic" = "that group has got to go"

I have to admit I don't see too much about your wife's behavior I find suspect other than hiding the conversations like you said.
And hiding conversations\activities is not a small thing.

Unless they are planning your surprise birthday part, there shouldn't be secrets like this with your wife.

Secrets in marriage are never good.
Privacy is good, friends that are wife-only are good...secrets no.

Have you asked to see the texting conversations?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

So your wife has friends that you don’t like and that do things that are not ok in your marriage. When they do those things your wife does not participate. She hasn’t lied or done anything wrong, she just doesn’t tell you about these people she knows you don’t like. Is it that she’s keeping secrets or is it that she assumes you don’t want to hear about them?

Have you asked her? Why do you distrust her, is there something else going on?

My H hates that I’m on Internet forums. He thinks they’re a waste of time and emotion. I don’t tell him about this one. He doesn’t like them and doesn’t want to know about it. I’m not hiding it, I don’t want to hear every little thing he and his brother talk about, he’s not hiding it, it’s just not in my purview. As long as it’s not interfering with your marriage, is it really a problem? I’m honestly asking, trying to understand.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Your wife is allowed to have friends. You either trust her ethics or you don't. *I don't know why a lot of men seem to think their women aren't operating with a fully functioning brain and more than capable of making their own decisions and aren't like a fawn in the woods going where the wind blows them or feeling like they have to do what their friends do*. I can tell you that you can be friends with people whose actions you would not follow. Why? Because we're not lemmings. We're women. And we get to have friends.


Right? It sounds like he infantilzes his wife and doesn’t think she’s smart enough to behave if he’s not in control of her every thought and action. Seems annoying and a bit loonytoons.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> Has anyone experienced this?


Yes, and I guarantee you, there is a reason she is keeping it secret. GNO bar nights....vacations without you? Yup, I guarantee you she is up to no good. And I'll just say it, I'd bet good money she has cheated on you on some level.

There is a reason people like to party without their SO. That coupled with her being tight lipped about it says it all to me. Ya, I know some will come on here and say I'm jumping the gun, knee jerk. But anyone that does has their head buried in the sand if they think this is normal.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I made up my mind after this comment.
> "marriage toxic" = "that group has got to go"
> 
> Have you asked to see the texting conversations?


We usually agree on things, but not here. That is not how adults treat each other. If my H up and demanded to see my phone to check my text messages we would have a BIG problem. That is very disrespectful. I am not a child. If he has a concern, let’s hear it, by all means, but I’m not a child to be ordered about and I do have a right to privacy. So does he.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> My H hates that I’m on Internet forums. He thinks they’re a waste of time and emotion. I don’t tell him about this one. He doesn’t like them and doesn’t want to know about it. I’m not hiding it, I don’t want to hear every little thing he and his brother talk about, he’s not hiding it, it’s just not in my purview. As long as it’s not interfering with your marriage, is it really a problem? I’m honestly asking, trying to understand.


If you're not hiding anything, and honest with hubby, then I don't see a problem.
Same with his brother's conversations. If they were doing stuff and hiding it (essentially lying by omission) then you'd be ok with that? I wouldn't if it were my wife.

In OP's case, he's laying out there as a deliberate hiding of the activities.
But it's also not clear if he has just asked her outright. That will be telling moment, if she avoids the truth.

But aside from the 'group avoidance?' none of her other actions seem sus to me.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Your wife is allowed to have friends. You either trust her ethics or you don't. I don't know why a lot of men seem to think their women aren't operating with a fully functioning brain and more than capable of making their own decisions and aren't like a fawn in the woods going where the wind blows them or feeling like they have to do what their friends do. I can tell you that you can be friends with people whose actions you would not follow. Why? Because we're not lemmings. We're women. And we get to have friends.


He never said she isn't allowed. But when people go on vacations all the time and partying without their spouse, there is a reason.

Here's a thought @wolfstooth, what would she say if you suggest the next vacation you go with? Or are these girl's only trips?

I guess it boils down to, are you going to trust your instincts? Or just trust her, then go off and have your own good time with the guys?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So your wife has friends that you don’t like and that do things that are not ok in your marriage. When they do those things your wife does not participate. She hasn’t lied or done anything wrong, she just doesn’t tell you about these people she knows you don’t like. Is it that she’s keeping secrets or is it that she assumes you don’t want to hear about them?
> 
> Have you asked her? Why do you distrust her, is there something else going on?
> 
> My H hates that I’m on Internet forums. He thinks they’re a waste of time and emotion. I don’t tell him about this one. He doesn’t like them and doesn’t want to know about it. I’m not hiding it, I don’t want to hear every little thing he and his brother talk about, he’s not hiding it, it’s just not in my purview. As long as it’s not interfering with your marriage, is it really a problem? I’m honestly asking, trying to understand.


You know, the reason women don't share everything about their friends is because their friends have a right to privacy. 

I got really mad one time when I found out a friend of mine shared her email password with a male friend who she had been trying to pass off on me because he was a pain in the butt and tiring. I found out he may have been reading my, at the time, deeply personal emails to my friend. That is not okay. It's not okay to share your friends private matters with anyone unless they say so. They have a right to privacy and a right to confide in their friends without their friends' husbands seeing all their personal stuff and spreading that around!


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I go on girls trips all the time. My H encourages them. Nothing untoward happens because I don’t change as a person depending on where I am or who I’m with. It’s suspicious how suspicious you all are.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> We usually agree on things, but not here. That is not how adults treat each other. If my H up and demanded to see my phone to check my text messages we would have a BIG problem. That is very disrespectful. I am not a child. If he has a concern, let’s hear it, by all means, but I’m not a child to be ordered about and I do have a right to privacy. So does he.


Yea, fair enough, I worded that poorly.

OP should ask what the H is going on and 'gently' ask to see the texts if he's getting weird vibes on her answers.
You're right, I came off wrong.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Right? It sounds like he infantilzes his wife and doesn’t think she’s smart enough to behave if he’s not in control of her every thought and action. Seems annoying and a bit loonytoons.


There's a whole bunch of that that goes on. Either you married someone who can make good decisions or you didn't. And if you didn't, that's on you. Her friends have a right to their privacy.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I go on girls trips all the time. My H encourages them. Nothing untoward happens because I don’t change as a person depending on where I am or who I’m with. It’s suspicious how suspicious you all are.


My wife goes on GNO and even overnights, weekends away, etc. I have no problem with it, but I'm never left in the dark about who,what,when, where, etc.
If I was in the dark... yea, I wouldn't be happy.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

wolfstooth said:


> Hello, new member here.
> 
> My S/O and I have been together for nearly 25 years, married for over 20 now.
> 
> ...


Why do you say this group is toxic to marriages?

There are friends like that, what's your reason for that description here?


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I go on girls trips all the time. My H encourages them. Nothing untoward happens because I don’t change as a person depending on where I am or who I’m with. It’s suspicious how suspicious you all are.


And are you shifty and hide what goes on with him on these trips? I bet not. There lies the difference to this man's situation.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> My wife goes on GNO and even overnights, weekends away, etc. I have no problem with it,* but I'm never left in the dark about who,what,when, where, etc*.
> If I was in the dark... yea, I wouldn't be happy.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Also just to add, if I know that there are toxic influences on our marriage, there's no question about my stance there. The toxicity has to go.

I think OP was a little wishy-washy about if the group was really toxic. The language sounded a little like he _thinks_ they are toxic.
So we will see.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

drencrom said:


> And are you shifty and hide what goes on with him on these trips? I bet not. There lies the difference to this man's situation.


Likely so.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Have you ever directly asked her about why her relationship with this group is the way it is and stated that it would make any spouse uncomfortable?


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You know, the reason women don't share everything about their friends is because their friends have a right to privacy.


What privacy? What her friends are doing his wife is doing, yes? She can't simply share her trip details with him? I hardly think telling him, "we went to some bars, danced, caught a really good concert" is not anything that would violate privacy.

He smells something fishy in her hiding things. I'm saying based on that, there IS something fishy. If I were to go to Vegas with the guys and were married, I'd be telling my wife about my poker tournament, a few bars we might go to, even text here quite a bit to see how she is getting along at home.

Never would I just clam up and not say a word about the trip. Only reason I'd do that is if there was something going on that she wouldn't like, hence something I shouldn't be doing.


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## wolfstooth (10 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Your wife is allowed to have friends. You either trust her ethics or you don't. I don't know why a lot of men seem to think their women aren't operating with a fully functioning brain and more than capable of making their own decisions and aren't like a fawn in the woods going where the wind blows them or feeling like they have to do what their friends do. I can tell you that you can be friends with people whose actions you would not follow. Why? Because we're not lemmings. We're women. And we get to have friends.





DownByTheRiver said:


> Your wife is allowed to have friends. You either trust her ethics or you don't. I don't know why a lot of men seem to think their women aren't operating with a fully functioning brain and more than capable of making their own decisions and aren't like a fawn in the woods going where the wind blows them or feeling like they have to do what their friends do. I can tell you that you can be friends with people whose actions you would not follow. Why? Because we're not lemmings. We're women. And we get to have friends.


You’re grossly misunderstanding this; My wife does have friends and lots of them; this isn’t about me giving her permission, it’s about the decency and respect of not keeping secrets and she expects the same; I always tell her where I’m going, with who and when I’ll be back


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

drencrom said:


> What privacy? What her friends are doing his wife is doing, yes? She can't simply share her trip details with him? I hardly think telling him, "we went to some bars, danced, caught a really good concert" is not anything that would violate privacy.
> 
> He smells something fishy in her hiding things. I'm saying based on that, there IS something fishy. If I were to go to Vegas with the guys and were married, I'd be telling my wife about my poker tournament, a few bars we might go to, even text here quite a bit to see how she is getting along at home.
> 
> Never would I just clam up and not say a word about the trip. Only reason I'd do that is if there was something going on that she wouldn't like, hence something I shouldn't be doing.


You must have married someone you already knew had bad ethics.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

There was a story on Reddit a few years ago about a guy who was engaged to a woman who had lots of friends and regularly had girl’s night’s out. They would post a few pictures on Facebook and it all looked kinda tame.
Then one Saturday night he got a snapshot of his fiancée with another guys **** in her mouth. 
A few of his friends seen the photo and immediately he started getting messages and there were lots of jokes at his expense. 
When his girlfriend turned up early the next morning he dumped her straight away and she left. However the next day she came back and he thought she was going to beg him to stay with her. 
Not a ****ing bit of it!
She told him all was bothering him was his friends were laughing at him. She then showed him a private group account and all of the women were having fun with strippers and other guys who they met on their nights out. One of the women had accidentally posted to Snapchat instead of their group page and this was the picture he seen. He shared the pictures across Facebook and all hell broke loose. Engagements were called off, marriages collapsed and a lot of relationships finished. 
So op, just because you’ve seen some pictures it doesn’t mean you’ve seen them all.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

wolfstooth said:


> You’re grossly misunderstanding this; My wife does have friends and lots of them; this isn’t about me giving her permission, it’s about the decency and respect of not keeping secrets and she expects the same; I always tell her where I’m going, with who and when I’ll be back


If you married a woman you trusted who you knew had ethics, you wouldn't care so much about that.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> You’re grossly misunderstanding this; My wife does have friends and lots of them; this isn’t about me giving her permission, it’s about the decency and respect of not keeping secrets and she expects the same; I always tell her where I’m going, with who and when I’ll be back


Wait a minute. She keeps her partying a secret, but expects you to give up the goods? So she's a hypocrite?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I’m sure my wife has private discussions with friends and family and they’re private.

She has gone on trips with friends and such without me because I didn’t want to or was unable to go. It’s fine if you trust each other.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You must have married someone you already knew had bad ethics.


No, I married someone not knowing she did and her going out with friends, of which I had no problem with, turned out to be cheating sessions.

His description of what she is doing and hiding the details mirrors my old situation almost to a T.

And what does what I said have anything to do with me marrying someone knowing their bad ethics? I said simply sharing some details of a trip is not violating any privacy of her friends.

There shouldn't be anything they are doing that they wouldn't have a problem with their significant others knowing. If there is, then they are up to no good.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If you married a woman you trusted who you knew had ethics, you wouldn't care so much about that.


There are very few people that do marry their spouses not trusting them. Things change. Someone that didn't throw up red flags in the beginning can turn into cheaters. Why do you think so many people are here? Because who they married turned out not to be who their spouse thought they were.


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## wolfstooth (10 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I made up my mind after this comment.
> "marriage toxic" = "that group has got to go"
> 
> I have to admit I don't see too much about your wife's behavior I find suspect other than hiding the conversations like you said.
> ...


yeah, it’s just the secrecy and it’s almost always through omission and only with this one group; I’m not really interested in seeing her texts or what they’re saying to one another; she has broken into my phone in the past and accused me of cheating; it’s kinda difficult to cheat when you never go anywhere


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

drencrom said:


> What privacy? What her friends are doing his wife is doing, yes? She can't simply share her trip details with him? I hardly think telling him, "we went to some bars, danced, caught a really good concert" is not anything that would violate privacy.
> 
> He smells something fishy in her hiding things. I'm saying based on that, there IS something fishy. If I were to go to Vegas with the guys and were married, I'd be telling my wife about my poker tournament, a few bars we might go to, even text here quite a bit to see how she is getting along at home.
> 
> Never would I just clam up and not say a word about the trip. Only reason I'd do that is if there was something going on that she wouldn't like, hence something I shouldn't be doing.


Devil's advocate, I don't share all the details of all the fishing and visiting old buds trips with DW, I hit the big things, yes, but don't get into the weeds. And vice versa. We share up front the who, what, when, where general info obviously in case of emergencies, but she could care less about the trivialities on my trips, and vice versa.

Because we're not shady in planning and doing, and we trust each other. But we have a long marriage history.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> You’re grossly misunderstanding this; My wife does have friends and lots of them; this isn’t about me giving her permission, it’s about the decency and respect of not keeping secrets and she expects the same; I always tell her where I’m going, with who and when I’ll be back


Are these vacations just the women? If not, suggest you go along next time. 

If it is just the women, just how is she hiding details? Does she refuse to say anything? What is her excuse for not sharing the wonderful time she had with you?


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> yeah, it’s just the secrecy and it’s almost always through omission and only with this one group; I’m not really interested in seeing her texts or what they’re saying to one another; she has broken into my phone in the past and accused me of cheating; it’s kinda difficult to cheat when you never go anywhere


Ok, so she clams up about her girls trips, but breaks into your phone.

And with my personal experience, someone accusing you of cheating, then going out and partying with friends and being tight lipped about it, then uses their paranoia of you possibly cheating as an excuse to do it themselves.

Not saying this is what she is doing...but something definitely going on with your wife. What does she say when you ask her about the trips?


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Devil's advocate, I don't share all the details of all the fishing and visiting old buds trips with DW, I hit the big things, yes, but don't get into the weeds. And vice versa. We share up front the who, what, when, where general info obviously in case of emergencies, but she could care less about the trivialities on my trips, and vice versa.
> 
> Because we're not shady in planning and doing, and we trust each other. But we have a long marriage history.


Oh I get its quite impossible to share every little detail. Need more information from @wolfstooth about the nature of her shadiness here.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Devil's advocate, I don't share all the details of all the fishing and visiting old buds trips with DW, I hit the big things, yes, but don't get into the weeds. And vice versa. We share up front the who, what, when, where general info obviously in case of emergencies, but she could care less about the trivialities on my trips, and vice versa.
> 
> Because we're not shady in planning and doing, and we trust each other. But we have a long marriage history.


Few rational people every share every detail about things they do or even some of the bigger points. It just depends on the context and the relationship.
They (we) hit highlights and are open to questions & conversation about details.

On the other hand, If there's avoidance around some details it would be suspect.

Not talking about every detail is not the same as hiding them.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

drencrom said:


> Are these vacations just the women? If not, suggest you go along next time.
> 
> If it is just the women, just how is she hiding details? Does she refuse to say anything? What is her excuse for not sharing the wonderful time she had with you?


There you go. Take some of the trips with her. A good vacation for you, plenty of time to drink and do your own thing. DO NOT try and hang out with her and friends though. Share a hotel room but have separate day activities.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

drencrom said:


> Oh I get its quite impossible to share every little detail. Need more information from @wolfstooth about the nature of her shadiness here.


100% agree.

This:


drencrom said:


> What does she say when you ask her about the trips?


matters a lot.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

wolfstooth said:


> yeah, it’s just the secrecy and it’s almost always through omission and only with this one group; I’m not really interested in seeing her texts or what they’re saying to one another; she has broken into my phone in the past and accused me of cheating; it’s kinda difficult to cheat when you never go anywhere


Man, you've got to start getting out more. Take your own trips too. And that's nothing to do with her, at all, and no tit for tat, just a man has to have a life outside the concrete box he eats and sleeps in.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

People very often accuse an innocent partner of cheating because they have cheating on their own mind and would cheat or be tempted to in a convenient situation that gave them the chance. It's very often projection, not thinking about what she/he would do but what you yourself would do in the same situation. Try to remember that most women don't have sex as their priority nearly as much as men do and just because they have friends and go do things doesn't mean they're hunting sex like someone whose priority it is.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Not talking about every detail is not the same as hiding them.


Yes, I agree. Which is why I'm wondering if she is acting suspicious or something when he asks things. But based on the fact he says she breaks into his phone and accuses him of cheating, in her mind likely makes it seem better if she engages in things she feels the need to keep from him.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

drencrom said:


> No, I married someone not knowing she did and her going out with friends, of which I had no problem with, turned out to be cheating sessions.
> 
> His description of what she is doing and hiding the details mirrors my old situation almost to a T.
> 
> ...


So that means all spouses cheat? So we must all treat our spouses as if they're cheaters instead of with respect and dignity?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

drencrom said:


> Yes, I agree. Which is why I'm wondering if she is acting suspicious or something when he asks things. But based on the fact he says she breaks into his phone and accuses him of cheating, in her mind likely makes it seem better if she engages in things she feels the need to keep from him.


Now that may be the case.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

drencrom said:


> Yes, I agree. Which is why I'm wondering if she is acting suspicious or something when he asks things. But based on the fact he says she breaks into his phone and accuses him of cheating, in her mind likely makes it seem better if she engages in things she feels the need to keep from him.


There is suspicious behavior for sure, but at this point I'm not convinced if it's him or her that is the problem.
His perception may not be reality, it's not clear to me yet.
Moving ahead at face value with what OP posts, but keeping the options open. We will see.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Those that have nothing to hide normally hide nothing.
Apply common sense..


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

drencrom said:


> And are you shifty and hide what goes on with him on these trips? I bet not. There lies the difference to this man's situation.


I try to be shifty. But I always start laughing and give it away. 😉


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## wolfstooth (10 mo ago)

drencrom said:


> Wait a minute. She keeps her partying a secret, but expects you to give up the goods? So she's a hypocrite?


Yes, she is; she’s asked me to not be friends with people, stalked my social media, you get the picture


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> Yes, she is; she’s asked me to not be friends with people, stalked my social media, you get the picture


So happens when you ask her about details of the meetups, trips, friend group attendees, etc.
Why do you think that group is toxic?

How do you know what she does and doesn't do (GNO, Vacations, etc) if you don't know the details of their excursions?

What was her response when you asked to go with her? (You mentioned you were never invited I assumed you asked)


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

wolfstooth said:


> Yes, she is; she’s asked me to not be friends with people, stalked my social media, you get the picture


Now THAT is a problem. 

Be sure and ignore her requests. Don't even have to nor should you talk with her about it. Give her a light hearted comment closing off any directions she may give, ending the talk, and proceed.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So that means all spouses cheat? So we must all treat our spouses as if they're cheaters instead of with respect and dignity?


Show me where I said that. I'd venture to guess that she is. I'm not saying she is with absolute certainty.

And respect and dignity? Did you miss the part where she broke into his damn phone accusing HIM of cheating?


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> There is suspicious behavior for sure, but at this point I'm not convinced if it's him or her that is the problem.


I'd say it's her. He said she expect transparency from him, breaks into his phone and demands to know what he does....yet she isn't reciprocating.

But again, we need more info, such as the nature of her shadiness.


----------



## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> Yes, she is; she’s asked me to not be friends with people, stalked my social media, you get the picture


Ok then, I'd say she's definitely up to no good. She seems like a real prize. Double standards galore.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

drencrom said:


> But again, we need more info, such as the nature of her shadiness.


He seems to be avoiding this question.


----------



## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> He seems to be avoiding this question.


Well he has indicated that she has accused him, stalks his social media and breaks into his phone and expects him to tell all to her. Until we find that out, based on what he has said to this point, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here.

He did say she never wants to talk or text them when he is with her. They'll text her, she'll wave it off without reading presumably to answer it later when he's not around. As far as these trips he has only said she doesn't talk about it. Also, the fact all of her friends but one is single doesn't bode well either and he said he doesn't get the sense that they like him because he a bachelorette party was a no go as she expects a bachelor party for him to be off limits as well.

So @wolfstooth can you elaborate on how she hides her interactions with friends about her vacations with them and such?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> There's a whole bunch of that that goes on. Either you married someone who can make good decisions or you didn't. And if you didn't, that's on you. Her friends have a right to their privacy.


Exactly. Maybe her friends are sharing their problems and they don’t want her telling her husband about them. Because they’re human beings with a right to privacy.


BeyondRepair007 said:


> My wife goes on GNO and even overnights, weekends away, etc. I have no problem with it, but I'm never left in the dark about who,what,when, where, etc.
> If I was in the dark... yea, I wouldn't be happy.


I don’t provide a written itinerary, but we generally know who’s going and where they’ll be for the most part. On his guy weekends, I don’t ask much. He is who he is. If he’s gonna cheat, my micromanaging won’t stop it. If I thought I couldn’t trust him I would leave.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

drencrom said:


> And are you shifty and hide what goes on with him on these trips? I bet not. There lies the difference to this man's situation.


Honestly, I have ZERO poker face (I SUCK at Christmas surprises because I struggle so much with secrets) and I’m really just too lazy to be shifty. I married late (33) and selected very carefully. I was a fully functioning and independent adult when we met. I married another fully functioning independent adult. All this as-the-world-turns drama is for kids. It makes both of us tired, we’re busy enough with jobs, raising our son to not be a complete asshat and just general adulting.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I don’t provide a written itinerary, but we generally know who’s going and where they’ll be for the most part. On his guy weekends, I don’t ask much. He is who he is. If he’s gonna cheat, my micromanaging won’t stop it. If I thought I couldn’t trust him I would leave.


It sounds like we’re back in agreement! 🥳


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Exactly. Maybe her friends are sharing their problems and they don’t want her telling her husband about them. Because they’re human beings with a right to privacy.


I don't think wolf expect her to tell him her friends' problems. But sharing some details of fun they did is not violating privacy. Would your privacy be violated, for example, if one of your friends told your SO that they went to a concert and had a good time? No.



> I don’t provide a written itinerary, but we generally know who’s going and where they’ll be for the most part. On his guy weekends, I don’t ask much. He is who he is. If he’s gonna cheat, my micromanaging won’t stop it. If I thought I couldn’t trust him I would leave.


And if he was being shady in his responses or it seems like he is purposely hiding something, different story. Again, there is the difference between how you and your husband interact, and here.

Again, she stalks his social media, searches his phone, accuses him of cheating and expects HIM to give up the goods when he does something with friends. Seems she isn't going to reciprocate that which she demands from him.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

wolfstooth said:


> yeah, it’s just the secrecy and it’s almost always through omission and only with this one group; I’m not really interested in seeing her texts or what they’re saying to one another; she has broken into my phone in the past and accused me of cheating; *it’s kinda difficult to cheat when you never go anywhere*


You never go anywhere? Do you work? What about up above where you said you do tell her where you're going? So if she broke into your phone and accused you of cheating, what did she find on your phone to make her think that?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

wolfstooth said:


> Hello, new member here.
> 
> My S/O and I have been together for nearly 25 years, married for over 20 now.
> 
> ...


Sounds like someone in the friend group has cheated and/or is cheating. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Honestly, I have ZERO poker face (I SUCK at Christmas surprises because I struggle so much with secrets) and I’m really just too lazy to be shifty. I married late (33) and selected very carefully. I was a fully functioning and independent adult when we met. I married another fully functioning independent adult. All this as-the-world-turns drama is for kids. It makes both of us tired, we’re busy enough with jobs, raising our son to not be a complete asshat and just general adulting.


Again, your interactions with your spouse and wolf's here aren't even in the same zip code.

So you are saying you were more responsible than wolf here in picking a mate. Therefore you are smarter than the rest of us who actually were cheated on. The veiled insult isn't subtle at all.

You do realize some of us were bamboozled and had no idea the person we ended up with were less than trustworthy, right? Or maybe you don't.


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

Sorry @wolfstooth for how your SO is treating you. 
I think he said she never went on the “girls only vacations”
I was curious if you ever point blank ask her why she thinks it’s fair to check your phone or email and yet hides things from you with this certain group of friends.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

GusPolinski said:


> Sounds like someone in the friend group has cheated and/or is cheating. 🤷🏻‍♂️


But she doesn't have to tell wolf that. She can just tell him about some of the fun stuff she did on the trip.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Sorry @wolfstooth for how your SO is treating you.
> I think he said she never went on the “girls only vacations”
> I was curious if you ever point blank ask her why she thinks it’s fair to check your phone or email and yet hides things from you with this certain group of friends.


I hope he did at least that already. Long ago and quickly when that situation came up.

If not, why? Whhyyy???


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Now THAT is a problem.
> 
> Be sure and ignore her requests. Don't even have to nor should you talk with her about it. Give her a light hearted comment closing off any directions she may give, ending the talk, and proceed.


Maybe a bit of a TJ
I‘m not sure I like the passive aggressive approach here.
If I have a problem with one of my wife’s friends, I would expect to have a conversation and come to mutual agreement. I might win, I might lose, but we’d find agreement.

I would hope to be treated the same way.
Even in spite of marital problems, I think passive aggressive makes is worse, not better.

I guess that doesn’t apply once the marriage breaks down. But until then I’d avoid it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> yeah, it’s just the secrecy and it’s almost always through omission and only with this one group; I’m not really interested in seeing her texts or what they’re saying to one another; she has broken into my phone in the past and accused me of cheating; it’s kinda difficult to cheat when you never go anywhere


Ok I just read this, I hadn’t seen this yet. This changes the dynamic considerably. If she’s accusing you AND being shady you definitely have a problem. I’d ask point blank what the deal is.
My H actually told one of our friends (the swinger) that he would only go on a guys weekend with him if there wouldn’t be any shenanigans. On the phone, in front of me, he said, “I’m not going if there’s anything I’d have to lie about.” No shadiness anywhere, very different from what you’re seeing, @drencrom is on point in this situation.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Dr. Phil: "Isolation is the No. tool an abuser uses to control a relationship." 

That is why some of her friends probably do not like you. But they don't have to because they're her friends, not yours. 

Now, is she abusing you by cutting you off from your real-life male friends or some sex workers or other women on the internet?


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Sorry @wolfstooth for how your SO is treating you.
> I think he said she never went on the “girls only vacations”


*"Historically, their activities have included GNO at bars and vacations.*

My SO does not go out on GNO to the bars with them *any more* and was* never interested* in a "girls only" vacation. "

I take this to mean even though she went she told him she wasn't interested. That or he's being very confusing saying the first bolded part followed by the next sentence.

So if this is a thing of the past, does this mean those activities are over and he is simply wondering about her shadiness after the fact?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Bear in mind I'm not saying act passive aggressive, far from it. I don't know how you may have gotten that.

Opposite that.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

drencrom said:


> So you are saying you were more responsible than wolf here in picking a mate. Therefore you are smarter than the rest of us who actually were cheated on. The veiled insult isn't subtle at all.
> 
> You do realize some of us were bamboozled and had no idea the person we ended up with were less than trustworthy, right? Or maybe you don't.


That is NOT what I meant at all, and I apologize if I came across that way. I’ve been cheated on plenty and almost married a guy I dated for three years who smooth-a$$ lied to me about who he was and what he expected in marriage. I am definitely not trying to shade anyone who has been wronged and I am sorry if that’s what it sounded like, that was not my intent.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Dr. Phil: "Isolation is the No. tool an abuser uses to control a relationship."
> 
> That is why some of her friends probably do not like you. But they don't have to because they're her friends, not yours.


You're not reading everything he is saying. He didn't want her going to a bachelorette party and she doesn't want him going to bachelor parties. Sounded like a mutual thing.



> Now, is she abusing you by cutting you off from your real-life male friends or some sex workers or other women on the internet?


Ok, what the actual f***? What beef do you have with this guy?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Bear in mind I'm not saying act passive aggressive, far from it. I don't know how you may have gotten that.
> 
> Opposite that.


I got that from this:


Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Be sure and ignore her requests. Don't even have to nor should you talk with her about it. Give her a light hearted comment closing off any directions she may give, ending the talk, and proceed


Maybe I didn’t understand the context properly, but that looks passive aggressive to me.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That is NOT what I meant at all, and I apologize if I came across that way. I’ve been cheated on plenty and almost married a guy I dated for three years who smooth-a$$ lied to me about who he was and what he expected in marriage. I am definitely not trying to shade anyone who has been wronged and I am sorry if that’s what it sounded like, that was not my intent.


Ok, its the way I took it because it came right after you agreed with this comment:
*DownByTheRiver said:*
*There's a whole bunch of that that goes on. Either you married someone who can make good decisions or you didn't. And if you didn't, that's on you. Her friends have a right to their privacy.*

Thanks for the clarification...all good.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

drencrom said:


> But she doesn't have to tell wolf that. She can just tell him about some of the fun stuff she did on the trip.


She doesn’t _have_ to tell him anything. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

drencrom said:


> Ok, its the way I took it because it came right after you agreed with this comment:
> *DownByTheRiver said:*
> *There's a whole bunch of that that goes on. Either you married someone who can make good decisions or you didn't. And if you didn't, that's on you. Her friends have a right to their privacy.*
> 
> Thanks for the clarification...all good.


Apparently, it's okay if Texas says it as long as she didn't agree with me first.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

GusPolinski said:


> She doesn’t _have_ to tell him anything. 🤷🏻‍♂️


Which is actually telling him a _lot_
Paradox_? _Jinx? Voodoo?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

drencrom said:


> Ok, its the way I took it because it came right after you agreed with this comment:
> *DownByTheRiver said:*
> *There's a whole bunch of that that goes on. Either you married someone who can make good decisions or you didn't. And if you didn't, that's on you. Her friends have a right to their privacy.*
> 
> Thanks for the clarification...all good.


I was responding to friends having the right to privacy. If a friend confides in me I will keep her secret as long as it doesn’t affect me or my marriage. I’d be furious to learn a friend was giving her husband our texts or emails, and I don’t have anything to hide. (I’m hilarious, really 🤪) It’s the principle of the thing. Circle of trust and all that.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I was responding to friends having the right to privacy. If a friend confides in me I will keep her secret as long as it doesn’t affect me or my marriage. I’d be furious to learn a friend was giving her husband our texts or emails, and I don’t have anything to hide. (I’m hilarious, really 🤪) It’s the principle of the thing. Circle of trust and all that.


Yup, because if someone has a husband or boyfriend who doesn't want her to have friends and he gets hold of anything personal, he will use it against the friend just to run her off. It doesn't even have to be true. If he wants to get rid of her friend or friends and has their contact info, he could lie and tell the woman's partner she was having an affair or just anything just to end the friendship.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Apparently, it's okay if Texas says it as long as she didn't agree with me first.


No, I took exception with what you both said. Difference is Texas clarified her statement to make sure that isn't what she meant.

You're being purposely obtuse and wanting to argue over some guy you obviously have a beef with. So I'm done with you.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

GusPolinski said:


> She doesn’t _have_ to tell him anything. 🤷🏻‍♂️


I would say she does, because she expects it of him and stalks his communications. Sure, she doesn't have to, unless she wants to be a controlling hypocrite.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I was responding to friends having the right to privacy. If a friend confides in me I will keep her secret as long as it doesn’t affect me or my marriage. I’d be furious to learn a friend was giving her husband our texts or emails, and I don’t have anything to hide. (I’m hilarious, really 🤪) It’s the principle of the thing. Circle of trust and all that.


I’m a little bit split on this.
I wouldn’t have a problem if my wife had this view (she doesn’t).

On the other hand the confidence between spouses overrides any others. I (and my wife) will say “sure confide in me and I won’t tell anyone but I don’t keep anything from <spouse>. If that’s not ok, don’t tell me.”

In conversations with men, I always am aware they can share with their spouse and I’m ok with it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yup, because if someone has a husband or boyfriend who doesn't want her to have friends and he gets hold of anything personal, he will use it against the friend just to run her off.


That is exactly true. I actually have a story about that! It’s a threadjack though. I have a lot of stories for someone so boring. 😋😉


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I was responding to friends having the right to privacy. If a friend confides in me I will keep her secret as long as it doesn’t affect me or my marriage. I’d be furious to learn a friend was giving her husband our texts or emails, and I don’t have anything to hide. (I’m hilarious, really 🤪) It’s the principle of the thing. Circle of trust and all that.


And I already said she doesn't have to violate her friends' privacy. Simply talk about the trip with her significant other, that's all. How it was a good time, she saw a crab on the beach...s**t like that.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

drencrom said:


> No, I took exception with what you both said. Difference is Texas clarified her statement to make sure that isn't what she meant.
> 
> You're being purposely obtuse and wanting to argue over some guy you obviously have a beef with. So I'm done with you.


I don't even know that guy, but just go ahead and make things up.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I’m a little bit split on this.
> I wouldn’t have a problem if my wife had this view (she doesn’t).
> 
> On the other hand the confidence between spouses overrides any others. I (and my wife) will say “sure confide in me and I won’t tell anyone but I don’t keep anything from <spouse>. If that’s not ok, don’t tell me.”
> ...


My H is scary good with secrets. Like it’s a little worrisome how good he is at keeping secrets. There could honestly be all the things going on and I’d be clueless cause I just trust him like an idiot. He’s the only one though. And if he hurts me, karma is real. Plus the dog would SO take my side.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That is exactly true. I actually have a story about that! It’s a threadjack though. I have a lot of stories for someone so boring. 😋😉


Yeah. The internet has made it too easy. But it was already happening before, too.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> There was a story on Reddit a few years ago about a guy who was engaged to a woman who had lots of friends and regularly had girl’s night’s out. They would post a few pictures on Facebook and it all looked kinda tame.
> Then one Saturday night he got a snapshot of his fiancée with another guys **** in her mouth.
> A few of his friends seen the photo and immediately he started getting messages and there were lots of jokes at his expense.
> When his girlfriend turned up early the next morning he dumped her straight away and she left. However the next day she came back and he thought she was going to beg him to stay with her.
> ...


I would, in all honesty, be put off by marriage permanently if this happened to me.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> I would, in all honesty, be put off by marriage permanently if this happened to me.


I think all of us would! But it was a girlfriend, not a wife, at least.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think all of us would! But it was a girlfriend, not a wife, at least.


Depending on my level of commitment at the time, I could very well be traumatized just the same.
If that many women, in a relatively small circle of friends, are this cavalier about sex and relationships, I would probably reasonably conclude that I could never commit at all to any woman.
I also think it is unfortunate that this is the state of relationships and marriage in this day and age.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think all of us would! But it was a girlfriend, not a wife, at least.


Back then Reddit was a bit braver than it is now. They showed a photo of the woman with the strippers tackle in her mouth, it was a screenshot of a video.
The strangest part of the whole story was that the guy got back together with his fiancée. I’d say he got a few hall passes though lol.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> Depending on my level of commitment at the time, I could very well be traumatized just the same.
> If that many women, in a relatively small circle of friends, are this cavalier about sex and relationships, I would probably reasonably conclude that I could never commit at all to any woman.
> I also think it is unfortunate that this is the state of relationships and marriage in this day and age.


Oh, sure. BUT better to know before you marry!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Andy1001 said:


> Back then Reddit was a bit braver than it is now. They showed a photo of the woman with the strippers tackle in her mouth, it was a screenshot of a video.
> The strangest part of the whole story was that the guy got back together with his fiancée. I’d say he got a few hall passes though lol.


Well, when that happens, I always conclude it's nothing he himself wouldn't have done given the opportunity.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> Back then Reddit was a bit braver than it is now. They showed *the photo of the woman with the strippers tackle in her mouth.*
> The strangest part of the whole story was that the guy got back together with his fiancée. I’d say he got a few hall passes though lol.


This sounds like an excellent way to get an STD. Honestly, people do this? I mean we all know there is sex in the Champagne room, the main room, the bathroom, the coat room… but I mean, I won’t even drink from a public water fountain and there are women who will put that nasty old thing that’s been no-one-wants-to-know-where in their mouths???


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## wolfstooth (10 mo ago)

drencrom said:


> Well he has indicated that she has accused him, stalks his social media and breaks into his phone and expects him to tell all to her. Until we find that out, based on what he has said to this point, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here.
> 
> He did say she never wants to talk or text them when he is with her. They'll text her, she'll wave it off without reading presumably to answer it later when he's not around. As far as these trips he has only said she doesn't talk about it. Also, the fact all of her friends but one is single doesn't bode well either and he said he doesn't get the sense that they like him because he a bachelorette party was a no go as she expects a bachelor party for him to be off limits as well.
> 
> So @wolfstooth can you elaborate on how she hides her interactions with friends about her vacations with them and such?


I really don’t care that she hangs out with friends; she has a couple guy friends I would trust her on a cross country trip alone with; I don’t think her secrecy has anything to do with infidelity; I don’t like the hypocrisy; for the record, she has never taken a vacation with just the ladies and I am not okay with male strippers and am probably not alone on that


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This sounds like an excellent way to get an STD. Honestly, people do this? I mean we all know there is sex in the Champagne room, the main room, the bathroom, the coat room… but I mean, I won’t even drink from a public water fountain and there are women who will put that nasty old thing that’s been no-one-wants-to-know-where in their mouths???


Apparently it was a rule that everyone at the party had to put the strippers **** in their mouth. This was to ensure that nobody told any tales. Unfortunately one of the women had too much to drink and the rest was history. 

Incidentally a few years ago I was at a bachelor party in Vegas and in the parking lot of a nightclub I seen a woman giving a guy head while a group of people looked on and some of them were filming with their phones. It was both of their bachelorette/bachelor parties and up until then they were complete strangers to each other.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> I really don’t care that she hangs out with friends; she has a couple guy friends I would trust her on a cross country trip alone with; I don’t think her secrecy has anything to do with infidelity; I don’t like the hypocrisy; for the record, she has never taken a vacation with just the ladies and I am not okay with male strippers and am probably not alone on that


So talk to her. Find out why the secrecy.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> Apparently it was a rule that everyone at the party had to put the strippers **** in their mouth. This was to ensure that nobody told any tales. Unfortunately one of the women had too much to drink and the rest was history.
> 
> Incidentally a few years ago I was at a bachelor party in Vegas and in the parking lot of a nightclub I seen a woman giving a guy head while a group of people looked on and some of them were filming with their phones. It was both of their bachelorette/bachelor parties and up until then they were complete strangers to each other.


You are full of wonderful stories today.
Thank you for your contribution. Sort of.

🤮


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> Apparently it was a rule that everyone at the party had to put the strippers **** in their mouth. This was to ensure that nobody told any tales. Unfortunately one of the women had too much to drink and the rest was history.
> 
> Incidentally a few years ago I was at a bachelor party in Vegas and in the parking lot of a nightclub I seen a woman giving a guy head while a group of people looked on and some of them were filming with their phones. It was both of their bachelorette/bachelor parties and up until then they were complete strangers to each other.


I cannot imagine if someone told me I had to do something like that. I would probably just laugh at her. How weak-minded are these people? “Do this gross thing you don’t want to do so we can blackmail you.”

I know that most people don’t do fidelity any more. They just cheat constantly and wonder why their lives suck. No person who has ever participated in anything like that has any right to make any demands of any one ever. No wonder no one trusts anyone.


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## wolfstooth (10 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You never go anywhere? Do you work? What about up above where you said you do tell her where you're going? So if she broke into your phone and accused you of cheating, what did she find on your phone to make her think that?


I go to work and that’s about it; a guy at work talked me into joining the gym (not his); next thing you know, she lost her mind and joined the same gym too; ironically she went the same hours on the same days


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> I go to work and that’s about it; a guy at work talked me into joining the gym (not his); next thing you know, she lost her mind and joined the same gym too; ironically she went the same hours on the same days


I don’t like it. I’m sorry honey. You should probably start gathering your things and safeguarding your money.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

So you expect that your wife will have nice chats with you about her long standing friends that she knew even before you even though you make it obvious you hate them and want to break up the fun ? 

Yeah …. I bet she can’t wait to have that discussion


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

wolfstooth said:


> I go to work and that’s about it; a guy at work talked me into joining the gym (not his); next thing you know, she lost her mind and joined the same gym too; ironically she went the same hours on the same days


Seems like pretty extreme mate guarding on her part there, major concern that you would cheat.... could be her projecting.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I don’t like it. I’m sorry honey. You should probably start gathering your things and safeguarding your money.


Agree.

Alternate theory, the friend group is her getting advice for a cheating husband. Other wonky behavior is her trying best she can to save her marriage.

Im not yet buying that alternate theory but I haven’t yet heard how they interact with each other.

This whole thread sounds like TT. It’s not just about secrecy.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

VAR in her car would interesting to pick up some of the conversation...


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> yeah, it’s just the secrecy and it’s almost always through omission and only with this one group; I’m not really interested in seeing her texts or what they’re saying to one another; she has broken into my phone in the past and accused me of cheating; it’s kinda difficult to cheat when you never go anywhere


If it's obvious that you don't provide yourself opportunities to cheat, but she accuses you anyway, it often means that she is projecting her wrongs onto you.
I'd be doing some detective work on that, if only to eliminate the possibility that she is projecting.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

wolfstooth said:


> I go to work and that’s about it; a guy at work talked me into joining the gym (not his); next thing you know, she lost her mind and joined the same gym too; ironically she went the same hours on the same days


She’s projecting. Look it up.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Agree.
> 
> Alternate theory, the friend group is her getting advice for a cheating husband. Other wonky behavior is her trying best she can to save her marriage.
> 
> ...


This is actually a good theory. It could also be that her friends are catching their husbands cheating all the time and it’s made her suspicious. Her friends are cheating because their husbands are cheating. Honestly, it sounds like these friends are a bunch of losers from crazy town and she’d be better off without them.


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## wolfstooth (10 mo ago)

GusPolinski said:


> Sounds like someone in the friend group has cheated and/or is cheating. 🤷🏻‍♂️


there was one member of the group that was a cheater; I know because she told me she was physically cheating on her husband with another guy; she was kicked out of the group years ago for some other reason tho


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So that means all spouses cheat? So we must all treat our spouses as if they're cheaters instead of with respect and dignity?


I would say that the majority of spouses, especially the younger ones, probably do cheat. 
It's a fruit of sex education without the context of morality, I think. 
To be clear, I am saddened by the lack of skill in being committed to one's spouses these days.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> there was one member of the group that was a cheater; I know because she told me she was physically cheating on her husband with another guy; she was kicked out of the group years ago for some other reason tho


Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> there was one member of the group that was a cheater; I know because she told me she was physically cheating on her husband with another guy; she was kicked out of the group years ago for some other reason tho


There’s an old saying about birds and flocking together.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> There’s an old saying about birds and flocking together.


“Some other reason”
So she does talk about the group and what goes on there.
hmm.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

wolfstooth said:


> I go to work and that’s about it; a guy at work talked me into joining the gym (not his); next thing you know, she lost her mind and joined the same gym too; ironically she went the same hours on the same days


Ah, togetherness. But then again, she's with you, so at least you know where she is and what she's doing.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> I would say that the majority of spouses, especially the younger ones, probably do cheat.
> It's a fruit of sex education without the context of morality, I think.
> To be clear, I am saddened by the lack of skill in being committed to one's spouses these days.


Best not to get married young. I've always thought so. Need to get all that exploring done before marriage.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Ah, togetherness. But then again, she's with you, so at least you know where she is and what she's doing.


As long as she left me in peace to do my workout, or even helped me with it, I would not bothered by a spouse wanting to do some gym time when I'm doing it. 
I'm there to workout, not try and get it on with anybody.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Best not to get married young. I've always thought so. Need to get all that exploring done before marriage.


I’ve never understood marrying young, even though I know a lot of people who’ve done it. I was in my mid-20s before I knew who* I *was, how could I possibly select a life partner before I knew that?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’ve never understood marrying young, even though I know a lot of people who’ve done it. I was in my mid-20s before I knew who* I *was, how could I possibly select a life partner before I knew that?


Back, when it was normal, people knew how to be a life partner and create a good marriage. 
Today, that skill in creating good marriages doesn't exist for most people. It's not being taught in the homes anymore.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> There’s an old saying about birds and flocking together.


Yeah, but that doesn't mean everyone approves. I know in our group, there was just this young woman who would go after everyone else's love interests. I didn't approve at all, but she was someone a good friend of mine grew up with, so she was just tolerated.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’ve never understood marrying young, even though I know a lot of people who’ve done it. I was in my mid-20s before I knew who* I *was, how could I possibly select a life partner before I knew that?


They're too young to have a developed brain to KNOW they're too young to pick a life partner. It should just be the time to have fun.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> Back, when it was normal, people knew how to be a life partner and create a good marriage.
> Today, that skill in creating good marriages doesn't exist for most people. It's not being taught in the homes anymore.


Back when it was normal, women had no option but to make it work. Men did as they pleased and women dealt with it and were unhappy. It wasn’t idyllic.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yeah, but that doesn't mean everyone approves. I know in our group, there was just this young woman who would go after everyone else's love interests. I didn't approve at all, but she was someone a good friend of mine grew up with, so she was just tolerated.


That’s true. One of my best friends is in an open marriage. It’s not for me and if I’m honest I have opinions about it that I wouldn’t share with her because it would hurt her feelings. But she’s my friend and I have faults too so…


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Back when it was normal, women had no option but to make it work. Men did as they pleased and women dealt with it and were unhappy. It wasn’t idyllic.


I can only speak for the men in the area I live and back then, most men were good man. 
I'm not saying that all marriages were good back then, but more marriages were good in the past than today. 
It's partly due to the culture. 
There is no reward for men to marry today, just penalties.


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## wolfstooth (10 mo ago)

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Sorry @wolfstooth for how your SO is treating you.
> I think he said she never went on the “girls only vacations”
> I was curious if you ever point blank ask her why she thinks it’s fair to check your phone or email and yet hides things from you with this certain group of friends.


no, we don’t vacation separately; she’s pretty open about her other friends but doesn’t mention this group; if you don’t know something is happening, you can’t possibly inquire about it


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> There is no reward for men to marry today, just penalties.


There was no reward for women to marry back then, it was necessary to sell yourself for survival. Just penalties. More marriages are good today because women don’t have to stay in bad marriages any more. Men have not changed.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That’s true. One of my best friends is in an open marriage. It’s not for me and if I’m honest I have opinions about it that I wouldn’t share with her because it would hurt her feelings. But she’s my friend and I have faults too so…


In the college group, my best friend took up with a young dorm mate who let her boyfriend physically abuse her. I didn't approve of that, but what can you do. Point is, each person is responsible for their own decisions and while birds may flock together, they aren't all the same. They are different and there are exceptions made because of friend of a friend and all that. And some women hang out together who don't even like each other just to have someone to go do things with too, especially if their partner won't leave the house.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

wolfstooth said:


> no, we don’t vacation separately; she’s pretty open about her other friends but doesn’t mention this group; if you don’t know something is happening, you can’t possibly inquire about it


What does she say if you ask about it? Example?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> There was no reward for women to marry back then, it was necessary to sell yourself for survival. Just penalties. More marriages are good today because women don’t have to stay in bad marriages any more. Men have not changed.


I disagree with you, because I know plenty of good marriages in my community. 
Maybe we just ran around with different crowds.
However, today, there is no reason for a man to marry. I honestly can't think of a single reward for a man in a marriage today. 
Any man marrying today, loses everything.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> I disagree with you, because I know plenty of good marriages in my community.
> Maybe we just ran around with different crowds.
> However, today, there is no reason for a man to marry. I honestly can't think of a single reward for a man in a marriage today.
> Any man marrying today, loses everything.


We grew up with different perspectives. Women having zero say in how they were treated or what happened in their lives, men being held unaccountable and not having to make any effort at all in marriage, was easier for men. The marriages lasted because the women had no way out. A long marriage is not the same as a happy marriage, and what man wouldn’t be happy with a live-in maid, cook and plan B for sex to whom he owed nothing? Sounds great. That’s the marriages you “knew.” I knew a lot of those too.
Now women can support themselves so when a man cheats or beats them or is neglectful or treats them like a servant she can leave.
It isn’t that marriage is BAD for men, it’s that marriage isn’t bad for women any more. Men have to make an effort and many don’t want to. So they claim they’re “going their own way.” That’s fine. Fewer abusive marriages is a win for society.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> We grew up with different perspectives. Women having zero say in how they were treated or what happened in their lives, men being held unaccountable and not having to make any effort at all in marriage, was easier for men. The marriages lasted because the women had no way out. A long marriage is not the same as a happy marriage, and what man wouldn’t be happy with a live-in maid, cook and plan B for sex to whom he owed nothing? Sounds great. That’s the marriages you “knew.” I knew a lot of those too.
> Now women can support themselves so when a man cheats or beats them or is neglectful or treats them like a servant she can leave.
> It isn’t that marriage is BAD for men, it’s that marriage isn’t bad for women any more. Men have to make an effort and don’t want to.


A good marriage is always worth the effort. If he isn't making the effort, it's usually because the woman in question is worth making the effort. Look at how many men here have posted threads of being in sexless marriages for twenty years and is obviously unloved by the wife. The reason why those men stay in the marriages, is because they aren't willing to lose 75% of their net worth to a woman who did not earn it. It's suicide for men to divorce, as that is how the divorce laws are constructed. Divorce laws are not constructed for fairness towards the male.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

wolfstooth said:


> there was one member of the group that was a cheater; I know because she told me she was physically cheating on her husband with another guy; she was kicked out of the group years ago for some other reason tho


LOL what was the reason?

She make a move on one of the husbands? 😳😬🤣


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> A good marriage is always worth the effort. If he isn't making the effort, *it's usually because the woman in question is worth making the effort.* Look at how many men here have posted threads of being in sexless marriages for twenty years and is obviously unloved by the wife. The reason why those men stay in the marriages, is because they aren't willing to lose 75% of their net worth to a woman who did not earn it. It's suicide for men to divorce, as that is how the divorce laws are constructed. Divorce laws are not constructed for fairness towards the male.


Look at you making my point.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Never mind. too far off topic, so edited myself.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Never mind. too far off topic, so edited myself.


You’re right. No more from me either. Sorry, @wolfstooth, for the threadjack.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Look at you making my point.


Seems like that was a typo. 🤔


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

jonty30 said:


> A good marriage is always worth the effort. If he isn't making the effort, it's usually because the woman in question is worth making the effort. Look at how many men here have posted threads of being in sexless marriages for twenty years and is obviously unloved by the wife. The reason why those men stay in the marriages, is because they aren't willing to lose 75% of their net worth to a woman who did not earn it. It's suicide for men to divorce, as that is how the divorce laws are constructed. Divorce laws are not constructed for fairness towards the male.


Doesn't happen like that here. Also if they choose to stay in a marriage like that it's their decision. I would rather have less than be in an awful marriage.


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## wolfstooth (10 mo ago)

drencrom said:


> *"Historically, their activities have included GNO at bars and vacations.*
> 
> My SO does not go out on GNO to the bars with them *any more* and was* never interested* in a "girls only" vacation. "
> 
> ...


she used to do a GNO with them maybe twice a year; my wife never went


drencrom said:


> *"Historically, their activities have included GNO at bars and vacations.*
> 
> My SO does not go out on GNO to the bars with them *any more* and was* never interested* in a "girls only" vacation. "
> 
> ...


my wife never went on vacations with them and wasn’t interested in doing so; wife just did the GNO occasionally; she just joins this group for lunches now


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## wolfstooth (10 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Dr. Phil: "Isolation is the No. tool an abuser uses to control a relationship."
> 
> That is why some of her friends probably do not like you. But they don't have to because they're her friends, not yours.
> 
> Now, is she abusing you by cutting you off from your real-life male friends or some sex workers or other women on the internet?


yes, this is what I was leaning towards; I don’t do sex workers, not my thing but yeah, male friends; I’m actually in the process of making some guy friends and it’s difficult when you’re older


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

wolfstooth said:


> yes, this is what I was leaning towards; I don’t do sex workers, not my thing but yeah, male friends; I’m actually in the process of making some guy friends and it’s difficult when you’re older


Yes. I'm older, and it is really hard to make new good friends. Best if you can to do activities that get you out and active, bowling, fishing, walking, whatever. Do it while you can. I can't do stuff much anymore myself.

It's hard to make a real friend on the internet. Never really know who you're dealing with unless you meet in real life.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> she used to do a GNO with them maybe twice a year; my wife never went
> 
> my wife never went on vacations with them and wasn’t interested in doing so; wife just did the GNO occasionally; she just joins this group for lunches now


So, I’m sorry, I’m confused. The only thing your wife does with this group is lunches? So she isn’t hiding what happens on weekends away or nights out, she just doesn’t talk about this particular group of friends? Am I understanding this correctly? Because while I have a HUGE issue with double standards (almost threadjacked over double standards, after all) I am not sure I understand how worried we are over your wife being tight lipped about these women. Their behavior is so bad that she only sees them for lunches, then wouldn’t that make her behavior less suspicious? Could she just be ashamed of their behavior and that’s why she doesn’t talk to you about it? Or am I way off?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

GusPolinski said:


> Seems like that was a typo. 🤔


Nope. He said that men who abused their wives or treated them like slaves were justified in whatever behavior they chose because the women were bad and deserved it. Basically, if your husband beats you, you need to submit harder. All the bad things are always and only the fault of women. It’s not relevant to this thread though.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

So the only concern you have is that your wife doesn't want you to see what the other women are posting? If that's the deal, then you can stop worrying. People that chat in groups don't want their personal information shared outside the group. That's normal and okay.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So, I’m sorry, I’m confused. The only thing your wife does with this group is lunches? So she isn’t hiding what happens on weekends away or nights out, she just doesn’t talk about this particular group of friends? Am I understanding this correctly? Because while I have a HUGE issue with double standards (almost threadjacked over double standards, after all) I am not sure I understand how worried we are over your wife being tight lipped about these women. Their behavior is so bad that she only sees them for lunches, then wouldn’t that make her behavior less suspicious? Could she just be ashamed of their behavior and that’s why she doesn’t talk to you about it? Or am I way off?


I was literally replying something similar just now.

Im confused.
”My wife is so secretive about this group“
”Here’s what the group does, here’s what my wife will and won’t do, here’s some details about one of their cheating exmembers”

”My wife doesn’t like some of my friends and is so controlling about that”
”She has my phone password and checks on me”
”She joined the same gym as me”


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Nope. He said that men who abused their wives or treated them like slaves were justified in whatever behavior they chose because the women were bad and deserved it. Basically, if your husband beats you, you need to submit harder. All the bad things are always and only the fault of women. It’s not relevant to this thread though.


Didn’t read that anywhere, but then I tend to skip over a lot of comments.

Anyway, I get the point that he was likely trying to make in the comment that you’d bolded in your reply. What I’m saying is that, given that point, there’s clearly a “not” or “n’t” missing from his comment.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

GusPolinski said:


> Didn’t read that anywhere, but then I tend to skip over a lot of comments.
> 
> Anyway, I get the point that he was likely trying to make in the comment that you’d bolded in your reply. What I’m saying is that, given that point, there’s clearly a “not” or “n’t” missing from his comment.


I agree about the typo. “If he didn’t treat her well, it was because she didn’t deserve it.” So women are to blame for abuse. I understand what he was trying to say, women bad, men good.

What I don’t understand is why if the OP’s wife isn’t engaging in any bad behavior with this group of friends but is secretive about their drama and is suspicious of him, what’s going on? Could she be suspicious because this friend group is making her paranoid? Are we jumping to conclusions by thinking immediately that she is cheating?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I agree about the typo. “If he didn’t treat her well, it was because she didn’t deserve it.” So women are to blame for abuse. I understand what he was trying to say, women bad, men good.
> 
> What I don’t understand is why if the OP’s wife isn’t engaging in any bad behavior with this group of friends but is secretive about their drama and is suspicious of him, what’s going on? Could she be suspicious because this friend group is making her paranoid? Are we jumping to conclusions by thinking immediately that she is cheating?


Well… not necessarily _her_.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Your wife is allowed to have friends. You either trust her ethics or you don't. I don't know why a lot of men seem to think their women aren't operating with a fully functioning brain and more than capable of making their own decisions and aren't like a fawn in the woods going where the wind blows them or feeling like they have to do what their friends do. I can tell you that you can be friends with people whose actions you would not follow. Why? Because we're not lemmings. We're women. And we get to have friends.


She shouldn´t be "allowed". She haves full right to have own friends as everyone does, married or single, women and men.
That said, let me make some observations.
- I don´t see where is he preventing her to have friends and neither making objections about. He said she haves a lot of them, long time ones and she frequently makes new ones. So that´s not the point at all.
- Having so much friends, her more "private" behaviour _seems_ to be all allocated in her interactions with one particular group of them. Whatever is so different to a more general attitude awakes some attention, not necessarily a judgement.
- " I can tell you that you can be friends with people whose actions you would not follow." You can, of course, tell me. I woould NOT be friend of people whose actions I don´t have an admirative respect. My own admirative respect for a partner of mine would be lessen if she does. That would not imply a control on her but an excercise of my own values.
- Of course he should trust in her intentions. But intentions may not be enough. All humans, men and women, can get in trouble while thinking they are doing right. In what counts and when I had a SO I also trusted in her advice on what was sometimes not so evident for me. And she was frequently worth being heard.
- The other side of adult freedom is responsability. Being him blinded about a specific and particular set of interactions makes her in full charge of what may happen IF (no matter the good intentions) those interactions if accidentally known affect her relationship with him. Not saying it will happen, but IMO in what condititions may evolve.
- Finally I do NOT make of this a gender biased thing as I never do it.

Best wishes to you all.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Try to remember that most women don't have sex as their priority nearly as much as men do and just because they have friends and go do things doesn't mean they're hunting sex like someone whose priority it is.


Some misandry around?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You know, the reason women don't share everything about their friends is because their friends have a right to privacy.
> 
> I got really mad one time when I found out a friend of mine shared her email password with a male friend who she had been trying to pass off on me because he was a pain in the butt and tiring. I found out he may have been reading my, at the time, deeply personal emails to my friend. That is not okay. It's not okay to share your friends private matters with anyone unless they say so. They have a right to privacy and a right to confide in their friends without their friends' husbands seeing all their personal stuff and spreading that around!


Damn straight. I was so upset when a gf of mine told her husband something I'd shared with her in confidence. I've never told her anything personal since. He didn't need to know and she shouldn't have told him.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So if she broke into your phone and accused you of cheating, what did she find on your phone to make her think that?


Soooo let me understand.
Where comes the "she sould trust him" and "he haves right to privacy"?
Or...there IS something like a double standard?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ElOtro said:


> Some misandry around?


I don’t think so. Just truth.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

frusdil said:


> Damn straight. I was so upset when a gf of mine told her husband something I'd shared with her in confidence. I've never told her anything personal since. He didn't need to know and she shouldn't have told him.


And the fact that you know she told him probably means he didn’t keep it to himself either.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

wolfstooth said:


> Yes, she is; she’s asked me to not be friends with people, stalked my social media, you get the picture


I've read your thread and many of the comments, and as a woman, I have to say the hypocrisy your wife shows is incredible. 

Have you two had a conversation about this yet? I'd gather my thoughts and sit down with a list and try to show her the disparity between what she's saying and her expectations for you. As much as I get the whole privacy thing for friends, I bet many people wouldn't like being on the receiving end of this behavior.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> yes, this is what I was leaning towards; I don’t do sex workers, not my thing but yeah, male friends; I’m actually in the process of making some guy friends and it’s difficult when you’re older


Friends are an organic thing. They happen, just because.
Just focus on a good life for yourself. Ultimately, your happiness is your responsibility.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This sounds like an excellent way to get an STD. Honestly, people do this? I mean we all know there is sex in the Champagne room, the main room, the bathroom, the coat room… but I mean, I won’t even drink from a public water fountain and there are women who will put that nasty old thing that’s been no-one-wants-to-know-where in their mouths???


Are you saying that shouldn´t happen or that rarely happens?
I agree with the first.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I don’t think so. Just truth.


Well...I´ll formulate it in a cautious way.
Something don´t need to be a lie to be factually false. That is, to make a distorted map of reality.
Both mysoginists and misandrists (and I´m not saying you are neither) think that they are saying strong wide truths.
Just IMO they are both wrong.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Dr. Phil: "Isolation is the No. tool an abuser uses to control a relationship."
> 
> That is why some of her friends probably do not like you. But they don't have to because they're her friends, not yours.
> 
> Now, is she abusing you by cutting you off from your real-life male friends or some sex workers or other women on the internet?


Good point DBTR! 👍

Too many posts: has he answered this one?

I know a guy, doesn’t like his wife seeing her female friends. Because she’s banned from talking to men and threatened with what will happen if she ever does. They’re all she has left (she doesn’t work, and doesn’t see her family anymore).

But he texts women all the time, online, irl, whatever, and she does check his phone. He was even texting her cousin and the two were having a lovely time laughing at her, sending lovely songs and memes. She had enough and cracks sometimes. He calls her controlling, and turns it back to her ‘I have no friends left thanks to you!’ 🙄

He’s terrified and paranoid the girls’ chats and dinners might mean his wife will talk about his too many female friends… and the frightening set of rules she has to live by. They might gently tell her she’s in a bad situation. On the rare occasions that she does go out and meet with them, because she usually cancels. Behind her back, they’d at least be saying she’s never been the same since marrying him.

So I’m sorry if he has already answered whether he’s had to get rid of female friends while she’s only allowed to have female friends but not speak with them or show him what she’s talking about.

Op is she checking your phone and asking you to stop contact with other women?

I just want to make sure you’re not paranoid she’s telling her women friends about why she’s checking YOUR phone.

If not, all good! 👍


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ElOtro said:


> Are you saying that shouldn´t happen or that rarely happens?
> I agree with the first.


It probably happens all the time. I know then strip club stuff happens all the time, I just didn’t realize women did those things too. It’s so… icky.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ElOtro said:


> Well...I´ll formulate it in a cautious way.
> Something don´t need to be a lie to be factually false. That is, to make a distorted map of reality.
> Both mysoginists and misandrists (and I´m not saying you are neither) think that they are saying strong wide truths.
> Just IMO they are both wrong.


That is fair. I don’t think it was intended to insult men, but rather to say that women don’t focus on looking for sex as often as was implied. That we will go out and about with our friends and not really think about hooking up.


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

frusdil said:


> Damn straight. I was so upset when a gf of mine told her husband something I'd shared with her in confidence. I've never told her anything personal since. He didn't need to know and she shouldn't have told him.


Hmm... My view on this topic in general is that I EXPECT a husband and wife, any husband and wife, to talk about and share anything. If I say something to one of them, it's as if I'm saying it to both of them.

I get not all communicate like that, but I operate as if they will or do.

I can't expect or tell a man or a woman to NOT say something to their spouse. I have NO right to do that, to expect that so if there is something I don't want one of them to know, then I just keep my big mouth shut as it's not right or fair of me to tell one of them something and then tell them NOT to tell their spouse.

Who am I to tell a husband or a wife NOT to tell their spouse something?

I don't rate anywhere at the level they do with each other and it would be presumptuous of me to tell one of them something and then tell them NOT to tell their spouse what I said.

I view married couples as a team, as partners in life, who are open and supportive of each other.

I act and speak accordingly to people who are married.

One of my best girlfriends in life is a lady I knew since we were in high school together long ago and we knew each other about 8 years before she met her husband to be. She was in my wedding, I was in hers. We vacation together. My children would have gone to her had my then husband and I died.

She's still my best friend and I've never told her something and then told her to NOT talk to her husband about it.

I'd be a crappy friend to even think of doing that to her let alone actually doing it.

Even though she's my best girlfriend in life and I'm hers, her husband is her BEST FRIEND and life partner, not me.

What right do I have to ask her or expect her to keep secrets from her husband?

I do NOT have a right to tell her what she can or can't say to her husband. NONE at all.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Andy1001 said:


> Apparently it was a rule that everyone at the party had to put the strippers **** in their mouth. This was to ensure that nobody told any tales. Unfortunately one of the women had too much to drink and the rest was history.
> 
> Incidentally a few years ago I was at a bachelor party in Vegas and in the parking lot of a nightclub I seen a woman giving a guy head while a group of people looked on and some of them were filming with their phones. It was both of their bachelorette/bachelor parties and up until then they were complete strangers to each other.


I didn't know there was a stripper Mafia. In a case like that it's just beside the point whether you don't like their friends or want them hanging out with them anymore. At that point you don't want to hang out with your partner or spouse anymore anyway so it doesn't really matter because you're going bye-bye.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I got that from this:
> 
> Maybe I didn’t understand the context properly, but that looks passive aggressive to me.


I guess you're just wrong.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I guess you're just wrong.


In the interest of avoiding TJ I’m fine with you saying I’m wrong. And in truth maybe I am, I’m not the smartest guy in the room and don’t claim to be. But saying I’m wrong without any explanation as to why really isn’t helpful.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

wolfstooth said:


> there was one member of the group that was a cheater; I know because she told me she was physically cheating on her husband with another guy; she was kicked out of the group years ago for some other reason tho


I find it interesting that cheating was acceptable. Maybe she was kicked out for sharing details of what they do and what they talk about.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> I really don’t care that she hangs out with friends; she has a couple guy friends I would trust her on a cross country trip alone with; I don’t think her secrecy has anything to do with infidelity; I don’t like the hypocrisy; for the record, she has never taken a vacation with just the ladies and I am not okay with male strippers and am probably not alone on that


Ok, so what do you think the secrecy is about then? It's obviously enough to bring you here and be concerned about it. If not infidelity or some sort of inappropriate interactions with others, is it just the hypocrisy?

So she never takes a vacation with "just the ladies"....so why aren't you invited?


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> she used to do a GNO with them maybe twice a year; my wife never went
> 
> my wife never went on vacations with them and wasn’t interested in doing so; wife just did the GNO occasionally; she just joins this group for lunches now


ok?? So if she does these things rarely to none, are there other activities she is being shady about? I'm starting to not understand the problem here.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

frusdil said:


> Damn straight. I was so upset when a gf of mine told her husband something I'd shared with her in confidence. I've never told her anything personal since. He didn't need to know and she shouldn't have told him.


But that isn't what this thread is about. Unless I'm wrong, @wolfstooth isn't wanting dirt on her friends. He just wants to know how things went. Did she have fun? What did they do? 

Not tell him things her friends tell her in confidence. But after wolf's last replies, now he has me confused as to what the real problem here is.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

drencrom said:


> But that isn't what this thread is about. Unless I'm wrong, @wolfstooth isn't wanting dirt on her friends. He just wants to know how things went. Did she have fun? What did they do?
> 
> Not tell him things her friends tell her in confidence. But after wolf's last replies, now he has me confused as to what the real problem here is.


My ‘alternate’ theory keeps making more and more sense.
I’m not behind it yet, but I keep waiting for a reason not to switch to it.

It seems like he has enough info and communication with W abut the groups that I wouldn’t call them a ‘secret’. OP shouldn’t expect a play by play.

And the thing about not checking texts from the group while they are together. That sounds fine to me. Ignore them while we are together is perfect, or at least not immediately suspicious. If it was the other way and they got her full attention, THAT would be a problem.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> And the thing about not checking texts from the group while they are together. That sounds fine to me.


That, in general, sounds fine to me too.

But the way he described it is she'll see a text from a friend and immediately turn the phone screen off as if she didn't want him to see anything. That is shady.

Again, though, I'm starting to get a little confused. And he still hasn't answered HOW she is being secretive, and if she is no longer doing these activities, then I'm not getting it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

When I’m with my husband, I’ll check my phone, see if it’s something important, and if not I put it away. I’m not meaning to be shady, I’m meaning to be respectful of the time I’m spending with my husband. Could that be what she’s doing?


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> When I’m with my husband, I’ll check my phone, see if it’s something important, and if not I put it away. I’m not meaning to be shady, I’m meaning to be respectful of the time I’m spending with my husband. Could that be what she’s doing?


Right, and I see nothing shady in that. Wolf is describing something a little different. She sees who its from and immediately shuts it off as if she doesn't want him to even see who is texting.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

drencrom said:


> Right, and I see nothing shady in that. Wolf is describing something a little different. She sees who its from and immediately shuts it off as if she doesn't want him to even see who is texting.


Maybe he’s saying that.
And maybe he’s saying it is ONLY these friends messages that she acts that way with.

Clarity would be helpful here.
Even so, it wouldn’t help to understand what’s in her head unless he actually has a conversation about it.
”Why” needs to be asked and is just as important Im my mind. Too much ambiguity to be sure of anything.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

wolfstooth said:


> she used to do a GNO with them maybe twice a year; my wife never went
> 
> my wife never went on vacations with them and wasn’t interested in doing so; wife just did the GNO occasionally; she just joins this group for lunches now


I have a different take on this than many. I think the danger is all in your head. It's not really the behavior she is doing; it's what you fear she might do because you see these friends as bad influences. But your wife is better that that. She knows where the line is & she's not crossing it. Your fears are getting the best of you. 

Your wife has these old friends who she likes & enjoys having lunch with. She gets that you don't care for them. She's smart enough & responsible enough to avoid the single fun they have -- GNOs & girls only vacations. Still they are her friends & she wants to hang out with them sometimes so she picks the safest option: lunch. IMO this is showing that she has strong values & appropriate boundaries. She is not acting single. 

I suspect she doesn't talk about them to you because she knows you are not a fan. She's trying to be respectful but it's having the opposite effect. The not knowing is causing you to assume the worst. 

Sit her down. Talk to her about your fears & what the not knowing is doing to you -- making you crazy. Praise her for her good judgment but ask her to do you the favor & courtesy of telling you when & where she's meeting them for lunch so you don't feel left out of a whole part of her life & you can stop worrying. Own your jealousy in here but give her the chance to ease your fears by showing that you trust her. 

Remain vigilant but I think it will all be OK.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

frusdil said:


> Damn straight. I was so upset when a gf of mine told her husband something I'd shared with her in confidence. I've never told her anything personal since. He didn't need to know and she shouldn't have told him.


Never tell someone a secret you don't want the them to tell the H. It's a given a H doesn't need to know secrets, and mostly doesn't care, but sometimes things come up when spouses converse, well, because in a good M the married couple is closer than friends and things do get talked about sometimes.

And this lets out a H trade secret I suppose - the Hs responsibility is to never ever share that, or admit he knows things, in mixed company. He keeps his Ws trusts that way.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

If a wife came on here and said that he her husband has a group of friends that he essentially keeps secret and that one of them was a known cheater, and she would like more communication around what he does with them and what they are up to, _everyone's_ advice would be that she is correct to want to that communication.

On this thread, it is a man saying the same thing, and a bunch of women are jumping on him for that.

I think if one is skewing their advice about what is acceptable in a relationship based on the sex of the party complaining, something isn't right.

The husband / wife relationship should be the primary / include the most trust / and it should be expected that there is no secrecy from either spouse, regardless of their sex.

For OP, his wife is being secretive about this specific group of friends, and he is fully correct to feel that isn't right.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

But is she being secretive? Perhaps, but he hasn't asked her why she seems to be hiding the texts.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

@wolfstooth
I've been on this site for a long time and I had worked in several big companies and retail stores. I've alot of friends that are married and none married.
that said, from experience

your Wife cheated, if it is a not full blown physical then may be some other sort of cheating.. and this group is aware and fueling it.
your wife likes this toxics group because they justify her behavior and thrill to experience something outside marriage (the single life) 
your Wife freaking out when you enrolled in a gym is called a cheater self reflection. and her meeting you there confirm it

I bet this group knows everything about you and your wife, every detail. May be she made fun of you or shared intimate details etc...

it is up to you what to do next - if it was me, I would get access to all these text messages and recover any deleted ones. if nothing there then ask for Poly,
ask her to stop hanging out with them and if she refuses then leave this marriage


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

blackclover3 said:


> @wolfstooth
> I've been on this site for a long time and I had worked in several big companies and retail stores. I've alot of friends that are married and none married.
> that said, from experience
> 
> ...


I lean towards this as well. However, he is now saying that these GNOs and vacations are pretty much a thing of the past. So I have no idea what is going on now.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> I have a different take on this than many. I think the danger is all in your head. It's not really the behavior she is doing; it's what you fear she might do because you see these friends as bad influences. But your wife is better that that. She knows where the line is & she's not crossing it. Your fears are getting the best of you.
> 
> Your wife has these old friends who she likes & enjoys having lunch with. She gets that you don't care for them. She's smart enough & responsible enough to avoid the single fun they have -- GNOs & girls only vacations. Still they are her friends & she wants to hang out with them sometimes so she picks the safest option: lunch. IMO this is showing that she has strong values & appropriate boundaries. She is not acting single.
> 
> ...


Wise


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

re16 said:


> If a wife came on here and said that he her husband has a group of friends that he essentially keeps secret and that one of them was a known cheater, and she would like more communication around what he does with them and what they are up to, _everyone's_ advice would be that she is correct to want to that communication.
> 
> On this thread, it is a man saying the same thing, and a bunch of women are jumping on him for that.
> 
> ...


Who's jumping on the H?

Tbh I haven't read all responses but so far seems split.


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## wolfstooth (10 mo ago)

re16 said:


> If a wife came on here and said that he her husband has a group of friends that he essentially keeps secret and that one of them was a known cheater, and she would like more communication around what he does with them and what they are up to, _everyone's_ advice would be that she is correct to want to that communication.
> 
> On this thread, it is a man saying the same thing, and a bunch of women are jumping on him for that.
> 
> ...


yes, this


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

re16 said:


> If a wife came on here and said that he her husband has a group of friends that he essentially keeps secret and that one of them was a known cheater, and she would like more communication around what he does with them and what they are up to, _everyone's_ advice would be that she is correct to want to that communication.
> 
> On this thread, it is a man saying the same thing, and a bunch of women are jumping on him for that.
> 
> ...


That's just nonsense. Friends fulfill a different role than a spouse does, and many spouses are not even good for being confidantes with and are not your "best friend." Your best friend is your best friend. A lot of men definitely don't sit still for girl talk and "what I've been doing all day" and "the cute things I saw out shopping today" any more than a lot of women don't want to sit and listen to endless sports commentary. So don't be ridiculous. That's just controlling isolating abusive think.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Never tell someone a secret you don't want the them to tell the H. It's a given a H doesn't need to know secrets, and mostly doesn't care, but sometimes things come up when spouses converse, well, because in a good M the married couple is closer than friends and things do get talked about sometimes.
> 
> And this lets out a H trade secret I suppose - the Hs responsibility is to never ever share that, or admit he knows things, in mixed company. He keeps his Ws trusts that way.


This is true for us. There are no secrets between us. If one of us is told something, anything, by a friend it will almost certainly come up in our conversation. It won't go beyond us, but basically we are one, so nothing is hidden.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Never tell someone a secret you don't want the them to tell the H. It's a given a H doesn't need to know secrets, and mostly doesn't care, but sometimes things come up when spouses converse, well, because in a good M the married couple is closer than friends and things do get talked about sometimes.
> 
> And this lets out a H trade secret I suppose - the Hs responsibility is to never ever share that, or admit he knows things, in mixed company. He keeps his Ws trusts that way.


Unless a friend asks me not to tell him, I’ll probably tell him (if I remember). I have a fully functioning brain and can determine if it’s something he should know, if the secret is damaging to US. Same with him, he doesn’t tell me everything but I’m sure if I needed to know I’d know. Most of the time it’s not anything he’d really care about anyway. Or something he’d rather not know because we don’t have separate friends, our friends are all couples. I’d he knew my friend’s secret, he’d have to keep it secret from one of HIS friends. Thank goodness it doesn’t happen often because that is REALLY complicated. 🤪


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Unless a friend asks me not to tell him, I’ll probably tell him (if I remember). I have a fully functioning brain and can determine if it’s something he should know, if the secret is damaging to US. Same with him, he doesn’t tell me everything but I’m sure if I needed to know I’d know. Most of the time it’s not anything he’d really care about anyway. Or something he’d rather not know because we don’t have separate friends, our friends are all couples. I’d he knew my friend’s secret, he’d have to keep it secret from one of HIS friends. Thank goodness it doesn’t happen often because that is REALLY complicated. 🤪


For me and my wife, it's not really about what is 'needed' to know or what the other 'should' know.

It's just known that we are each other's first and truest support system.
I help her with my thoughts about private matters and the same is true in reverse.

I don't share every 'secret' that I know but not because I _won't_ share, but it just doesn't come up in terms of me needing to talk it out.
If I did need support, then I would share with no hesitation.
Same for her with me (as far as I know I guess  )


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Men and women have friendships differently and it makes it hard for men to understand women friendships. Just from my observations, guys can be great pals and hang around together but never have a serious deep discussion about anything emotional.

I remember when I was young being shocked when close in time together two different men told me I was their best friend. I didn't even know what to say because they weren't my best friend. I had old friends with 20 years of tenure I considered my best friends. One of these guys couldn't tolerate any talking about my feelings and the problems I was having with the other guy who I was in love with. He would just not respond if anything like that started so he was certainly not my best friend. He didn't want to hear about anything like that. And he was married. Everyone knew who his best friend was and it was someone he'd known since high school that he was still in a band with so I really didn't understand where he was coming from.

But that got me to thinking about what men think are friends and what women think are friends are two different things. Men seem to have a hard time taking sex out of the equation and I don't know but my early theory was that maybe that's because when guys and their guy pals talk, it's mostly about sex or something. But again I don't know.

But if that's the case then they must assume that women are all just sitting around with a tape measure or something sharing private info and looking at guys crotches. And in truth it's just a lot more innocuous than that as a rule. It's usually literally where they get to talk about their little everyday trivial woman stuff that no man wants to hear about.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> But if that's the case then they must assume that women are all just sitting around with a tape measure or something sharing private info and looking at guys crotches. And in truth it's just a lot more innocuous than that as a rule. It's usually literally where they get to talk about their little everyday trivial woman stuff that no man wants to hear about.


Most of the time what my friends and I talk about would bore my H to tears. 😂

H says his friends don’t really talk about sex much. They’re all married, he says, and don’t talk about your wife the way you talk about girlfriends. “We’re all getting laid, nothing to announce,” he says. I guess if you’re getting regular sex you don’t think about it as much as if you’re not.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Most of the time what my friends and I talk about would bore my H to tears. 😂
> 
> H says his friends don’t really talk about sex much. They’re all married, he says, and don’t talk about your wife the way you talk about girlfriends. “We’re all getting laid, nothing to announce,” he says. I guess if you’re getting regular sex you don’t think about it as much as if you’re not.


Right. Most married people aren't going to be as inclined to do that.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Right. Most married people aren't going to be as inclined to do that.


Speaking of woman friend conversations, I'm sitting too close to a group at a restaurant and one of them is really loud. This scintillating conversation is one woman who started off bragging about the job she's about to take, followed by how screwed up all of her past jobs were, how much smarter she was than her bosses, including the one that fired her for stealing. No one else can get a word in edgewise. 

This is what you're missing and worried about, gentlemen.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Speaking of woman friend conversations, I'm sitting too close to a group at a restaurant and one of them is really loud. This scintillating conversation is one woman who started off bragging about the job she's about to take, followed by how screwed up all of her past jobs were, how much smarter she was than her bosses, including the one that fired her for stealing. No one else can get a word in edgewise.
> 
> This is what you're missing and worried about, gentlemen.


I’m not even a dude and I’m grateful I’m missing that. 😂

I’m in Mexico, and you can tell the women who starve and work hard for their bodies, they’re all walking around practically naked. 😆What’s funny is they’re not preening for men. They’re preening for other women. They’re ignoring the men entirely. 😋😂


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

And now they're talking about dying socks.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> And now they're talking about dying socks.


And we get the play by play.
Can you ask them how their sex life is going?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> And now they're talking about dying socks.


Sadly, that’s likely not a euphemism.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Sadly, that’s likely not a euphemism.


First time I've ever heard someone talking about dying socks. Maybe it's code for something that rhymes with it.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That is fair. I don’t think it was intended to insult men, but rather to say that women don’t focus on looking for sex as often as was implied. That we will go out and about with our friends and not really think about hooking up.


With my friendly respect I agree with you on some assertions while I dare to differ with their relevance and causal conections.
I think that, yes, in most of cases, women go out with friends as friendship is a highly valuable thing and with no intention of side interactions. True

And that it´s probably the case for the OP´s wife. (besides IMO her selective silence about only one group of friends amongst all others is not the better way to communicate the above).

But perhaps you should take in account that men, most of them, also do it. And their meetings use to be at least as "tame" (sports, cars, outdoors, some beer).as women´s ones. Yes, those men with "sex in their minds as priority" do the same as those women that "don’t focus on looking for sex as often".
So, perhaps what is used to be called "higher sex drive" is NOT the main causal force behind betrayal and a "lower sex drive" is NOT the main reason for loyalty.

What I suspect is that our social imaginery is filled with assumptions and myths that do not reflect how things work or that need, at least, an upgrade IF they were near to valid on some past.

No, I never thought that you or someone else were insulting men.
But I see in the argument some stereotypes that are not more accurate than the ones women frequently confront

It would be sad if true that men couldn´t be trusted because their role in the seduction game and in their initiative whithin loving relationships. And a diminishing thought if not true.

It would be sad if true that women could be trusted mainly because we attribute to them a lower interest in sex. And a diminishing thought if not true.

Best and best wishes.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> First time I've ever heard someone talking about dying socks. Maybe it's code for something that rhymes with it.


Reminds me of an old Saturday Night Live skit goofing on the exorcist:
"your momma sews socks that smell" -- to a black priest ( i THINK it was Richard Pryor) who then freaks out because it was about his momma and goes ape on the possessed girl (maybe Lorraine Newman??)

ETA: I was right - Richard Pryor and Lorraine Newman -- go to about 4 minutes in....


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jlg07 said:


> Reminds me of an old Saturday Night Live skit goofing on the exorcist:
> "your momma sews socks that smell" -- to a black priest ( i THINK it was Richard Pryor) who then freaks out because it was about his momma and goes ape on the possessed girl (maybe Lorraine Newman??)
> 
> ETA: I was right - Richard Pryor and Lorraine Newman -- go to about 4 minutes in....


Believe it or not that's the first thing I thought of when I heard them talking about dying socks. Except I had the phrase wrong and I was thinking "your mother sews socks in hell"

You can tell we come from the same degeneration -- I mean, generation.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Believe it or not that's the first thing I thought of when I heard them talking about dying socks. Except I had the phrase wrong and I was thinking "your mother sews socks in hell"
> 
> You can tell we come from the same degeneration -- I mean, generation.


Yeah, I couldn't even tell you who is ON SNL anymore -- haven't watched it in years...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jlg07 said:


> Yeah, I couldn't even tell you who is ON SNL anymore -- haven't watched it in years...


Me neither.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So that means all spouses cheat? So we must all treat our spouses as if they're cheaters instead of with respect and dignity?


When they act shady with a few friends, yes. Please remember, this specific group is the one OP has a problem with. Everything is out in the open with the rest of her friends.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

wolfstooth said:


> Yes, she is; she’s asked me to not be friends with people, stalked my social media, you get the picture


Sounds like your wife knows what she is capable of and believes you’re are as well.

I believe your wife has or is cheating on you. Seen this behavior before in a few different threads. Almost all of them, that acted like your wife, cheated at some point in the relationship.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

ABHale said:


> Sounds like your wife knows what she is capable of and believes you’re are as well.
> 
> I believe your wife has or is cheating on you. Seen this behavior before in a few different threads. Almost all of them, that acted like your wife, cheated at some point in the relationship.


still hasn’t answered if these people he’s been asked to stop talking to were women or men, and if his social media had some secrets. Until then, I’m going to assume her female friends are safe.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's just nonsense. Friends fulfill a different role than a spouse does, and many spouses are not even good for being confidantes with and are not your "best friend." Your best friend is your best friend. A lot of men definitely don't sit still for girl talk and "what I've been doing all day" and "the cute things I saw out shopping today" any more than a lot of women don't want to sit and listen to endless sports commentary. So don't be ridiculous. That's just controlling isolating abusive think.


This has nothing to do with what OP is talking about. Out of 100 friends, OP has a problem with 3-4 of them and you’re calling it abusive. That’s absurd.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Luckylucky said:


> still hasn’t answered if these people he’s been asked to stop talking to were women or men, and if his social media had some secrets. Until then, I’m going to assume her female friends are safe.


Does gender matter? He had already said that his wife has male friends that he is completely alright with. His wife is a hypocrite.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

ABHale said:


> Does gender matter? He had already said that his wife has male friends that he is completely alright with. His wife is a hypocrite.


Yeah see, I just don’t buy that he’s ok with her having male friends, but he’s very worried about her being with a group of women. Especially when he’s had some issues in the past of his own with people his wife has asked to contact with. 

In this case, it certainly matters that he has avoided the question of who he’s had to cut contact with. Because he just won’t say. I’m awaiting a very particular answer from him to determine who is really controlling who.

Because some people do worry about their women telling the other women what might be going on at home.

So OP, a few of us have asked. Who did you have to stop being friends with and why. And what did she find on your social media.

Do other people know she’s stopped you from being friends with certain people? Have you told people there are things online that she’s monitoring?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ABHale said:


> This has nothing to do with what OP is talking about. Out of 100 friends, OP has a problem with 3-4 of them and you’re calling it abusive. That’s absurd.


It is abusive if he thinks he gets to make the call whether she sees them or not. That's not his call.


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## seadoug105 (Jan 12, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It is abusive if he thinks he gets to make the call whether she sees them or not. That's not his call.


Of course…. If a man does it, it’s abusive…. If a woman does it, it’s setting boundaries…


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

seadoug105 said:


> Of course…. If a man does it, it’s abusive…. If a woman does it, it’s setting boundaries…


It's her friends. She gets to have friends. He'll need more than just having friends to have a legit reason to try to stop it. Just having mistrust of a spouse's friends isn't enough to expect them to cut them out without any real reason. You judge your spouse by their own actions, not their friends' actions.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

seadoug105 said:


> Of course…. If a man does it, it’s abusive…. If a woman does it, it’s setting boundaries…


Did… did someone say that?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It is abusive if he thinks he gets to make the call whether she sees them or not. That's not his call.


I would agree if this were just your run of the mill friends. However, if we take OP at his word, these are friends with baggage, a lot of baggage and they aren't her only friends. They are getting DUIs, sleeping around and she hides them from her husband. They don't sound like someone a good person should be associating with. The really telling part is that she is hiding them and her interactions with them from him. Nothing should be hidden from your spouse. If you aren't comfortable saying or doing something in front of your spouse you may want to reconsider what you are doing.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I would agree if this were just your run of the mill friends. However, if we take OP at his word, these are friends with baggage, a lot of baggage and they aren't her only friends. They are getting DUIs, sleeping around and she hides them from her husband. They don't sound like someone a good person should be associating with. The really telling part is that she is hiding them and her interactions with them from him. Nothing should be hidden from your spouse. If you aren't comfortable saying or doing something in front of your spouse you may want to reconsider what you are doing.


This sounds like SHE should reconsider. Not that her husband should make the decision for her. He can talk to her, tell her how he feels, and be clear about how he will react if she continues like this, but adults don’t “forbid” other adults from doing things.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I would agree if this were just your run of the mill friends. However, if we take OP at his word, these are friends with baggage, a lot of baggage and they aren't her only friends. They are getting DUIs, sleeping around and she hides them from her husband. They don't sound like someone a good person should be associating with. The really telling part is that she is hiding them and her interactions with them from him. Nothing should be hidden from your spouse. If you aren't comfortable saying or doing something in front of your spouse you may want to reconsider what you are doing.


That's not his call. And her hiding them is likely because she already knows he disapproves and isn't about to lose her friends over it.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This sounds like SHE should reconsider. Not that her husband should make the decision for her. He can talk to her, tell her how he feels, and be clear about how he will react if she continues like this, but adults don’t “forbid” other adults from doing things.


To be honest, I should have forbid my XW from hanging out with her "friends" 🤣🤣🤣


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I mean, there are reasons you could forbid them from, say, visiting your home. Like say they get drunk and break things or hit on your spouse, you'd try to keep them away from your home and spouse. If they were regularly taking your spouse, male or female, to strip clubs and getting lap dances and blowing a bunch of money, I think you can't forbid them, but you can tell them that will be a dealbreaker and be prepared to call it a day. But you can't tell them they can't see the friend in some other capacity, even though they seem smarmy to you. Just because one of your friends flirts with the opposite sex when out doesn't mean your spouse does. Just because your spouse has a whopping good time out with her friends isn't grounds to ban him/her from them. It's your spouse's actions that count, and frankly, if you think your spouse is smarmy, why did you marry them? We certainly see that all the time on this forum. It's okay if they're smarmy with you, seems like. They're not your teenager. You can't ban them from certain friends.

What typically happens is they make life so uncomfortable for you they end up running the friends off anyway. The friends feel unwelcome in your home because of bad vibes from the suspicious insecure spouse and just opt to stay away, but they should be able to go out and get together whether you hate them or not.

There's not a chance in hell his wife doesn't know he disapproves and that's why she just avoids as much as she can, because she should not have to give up her friends because of that if she's doing nothing wrong. Some of you seem to think that just talking to anyone who isn't endorsed by your spouse is doing something wrong. It's not. They simply don't understand your relationship and history, and guys seem to really not understand female friendships. They always seem to think it's leading to something sexual somehow. It's not.

You women who will give away your beloved dog for a man or an old friend, go right ahead. I never have and I never will because someone who loved and respected me wouldn't ask me to do that.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> guys seem to really not understand female friendships. They always seem to think it's leading to something sexual somehow. It's not.


What is this about? All over I read about how bad women having friends is, how all GNOs and girls weekends are all about chasing men. Most of our girls nights are talking about kids and drinking wine. Sometimes we branch out and talk about work. Or even our hobbies. At no point does anyone lose their top or make out with a stranger.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> What is this about? All over I read about how bad women having friends is, how all GNOs and girls weekends are all about chasing men. Most of our girls nights are talking about kids and drinking wine. Sometimes we branch out and talk about work. Or even our hobbies. At no point does anyone lose their top or make out with a stranger.


LMAO If only that were true


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> LMAO If only that were true


Sorry to disappoint but it is. We also don’t have topless pillow fights and have never once “experimented” on each other. And one of us is single.

Being out of our husband’s sight doesn’t change who we are.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Did… did someone say that?





DownByTheRiver said:


> You never go anywhere? Do you work? What about up above where you said you do tell her where you're going? So if she broke into your phone and accused you of cheating, what did she find on your phone to make her think that?


She did.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

uphillbattle said:


> She did.


That isn’t what she said. Not even close.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That isn’t what she said. Not even close.


Pretty sure I copied the quote.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> What is this about? All over I read about how bad women having friends is, how all GNOs and girls weekends are all about chasing men. Most of our girls nights are talking about kids and drinking wine. Sometimes we branch out and talk about work. Or even our hobbies. At no point does anyone lose their top or make out with a stranger.


It's because how friendships men have are different than friendships women have. It's what they would be tempted to do if they were out with their friends. It's projection. They see no value or reason why a woman would want to go to a restaurant and sit down and talk about trivial things like her job, shopping, her kids, her mom's operation. Too bad.

So I had lunch with my best friend yesterday. We talked about how she's growing out the gray in her hair and how I'm not. We talked about how her daughter is doing on her new meds and when her divorce hearing is. Talked about the operations her mom had this week. Talked about her plans for the future about maybe getting a home big enough for her mom. She showed me a dog photo of the dog they were going to see the next day and ended up rescuing. 

There was not one word during that two-hour lunch about anything sexual. Apparently, that's hard for some men to understand.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I mean, there are reasons you could forbid them from, say, visiting your home. Like say they get drunk and break things or hit on your spouse, you'd try to keep them away from your home and spouse. If they were regularly taking your spouse, male or female, to strip clubs and getting lap dances and blowing a bunch of money, I think you can't forbid them, but you can tell them that will be a dealbreaker and be prepared to call it a day. But you can't tell them they can't see the friend in some other capacity, even though they seem smarmy to you. Just because one of your friends flirts with the opposite sex when out doesn't mean your spouse does. Just because your spouse has a whopping good time out with her friends isn't grounds to ban him/her from them. It's your spouse's actions that count, and frankly, if you think your spouse is smarmy, why did you marry them? We certainly see that all the time on this forum. It's okay if they're smarmy with you, seems like. They're not your teenager. You can't ban them from certain friends.
> 
> What typically happens is they make life so uncomfortable for you they end up running the friends off anyway. The friends feel unwelcome in your home because of bad vibes from the suspicious insecure spouse and just opt to stay away, but they should be able to go out and get together whether you hate them or not.
> 
> ...


You gave a couple very good reasons why forbidding the friends would be okay. What if I don't want my spouse being friends with people that commit crimes, like DUI? What if I don't want my spouse being friends with people the are okay with ONSs and cheating on spouses? Why aren't those good reasons?

She is hiding because he disapproves. But what if he disapproved due some of the reasons you listed as legitimate and she hid it from him? Would that be okay? It sounds like you are saying it is okay to forbid her from doing things that you think are good reasons, but not others. That seems arbitrary.

Even though I completely trust my wife I wouldn't want her being around people that are okay with driving while drunk and sleeping around. I would be even more disappointed by her hiding them from me because she already knows I don't think they are the kind of people either of us should be friends with.

ETA: I think we should be able to decide who we are friends with, but there has to be a line somewhere that the spouse can say this person or group of people are no good and a no go to be friends with. Criminals immediately come to mind.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You gave a couple very good reasons why forbidding the friends would be okay. What if I don't want my spouse being friends with people that commit crimes, like DUI? What if I don't want my spouse being friends with people the are okay with ONSs and cheating on spouses? Why aren't those good reasons?
> 
> She is hiding because he disapproves. But what if he disapproved due some of the reasons you listed as legitimate and she hid it from him? Would that be okay? It sounds like you are saying it is okay to forbid her from doing things that you think are good reasons, but not others. That seems arbitrary.
> 
> ...


No, I do not think it's your call who your wife is friends with when they're just friends. You can't expect everyone else to adhere to your personal ethics in that regard. You're insulting your wife by acting like you're more equipped to make that decision for her. She's not a brainless ninny. And you are not her boss, and she is not your daughter. Respect your wife.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This sounds like SHE should reconsider. Not that her husband should make the decision for her. He can talk to her, tell her how he feels, and be clear about how he will react if she continues like this, but adults don’t “forbid” other adults from doing things.


Right, should be discussed. I don't think he ever said anything about forbidding her. He was only asking about why there is secrecy. 


This is what he came asking



wolfstooth said:


> ...My thought is, what's the big deal? Why aren't things being done in the light? Why are conversations being hidden? If there's nothing going on, why hide it? I really don't know what is going on or why this is such a big secret if there's nothing going on...


He didn't ask anything about forbidding her. He asked why the secrecy if nothing bad is going on? She is also a hypocrite. She has snooped in his phone, but won't let him see hers.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

[QUOTE="BigDaddyNY, post: 20495959, member: She is also a hypocrite. She has snooped in his phone, but won't let him see hers.
[/QUOTE]
She isn't being a hypocrite. If she is snooping it's only because he has done something wrong.(sarcasm)


edited because the sarcasm wasn't apparent


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No, I do not think it's your call who your wife is friends with when they're just friends. You can't expect everyone else to adhere to your personal ethics in that regard. You're insulting your wife by acting like you're more equipped to make that decision for her. She's not a brainless ninny.


I don't understand this.

You said this:


DownByTheRiver said:


> I mean, there are reasons you could forbid them from, say, visiting your home. Like say they get drunk and break things or hit on your spouse, you'd try to keep them away from your home and spouse.


Didn't you just list a reason you can forbid certain friends? Or am I misunderstanding? What if my personal ethics is to keep people away that will hit on my wife, but my wife says it is okay? The reality is if we were really on completely different pages about something like that we probably wouldn't be together anyway. 





DownByTheRiver said:


> If they were regularly taking your spouse, male or female, to strip clubs and getting lap dances and blowing a bunch of money, I think you can't forbid them, but you can tell them that will be a dealbreaker and be prepared to call it a day.


And here you listed what would be a legitimate deal breaker. But she is hiding what she is doing and saying with these friends. How can't he act on what would be a stated deal breaker if she is hiding it. Is that different than saying cheating is a deal breaker then being okay with the cheater hiding it?

I agree we should respect our spouse's judgement and ability to decide on who they should or shouldn't associate with. But, then they should be willing to be up front about that choices and interactions. In this case the wife shouldn't be hiding her interactions with the friend group. He wasn't even asking to see the texts, he was wonder why she is completely secretive about the fact that she even talks to them at all.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

uphillbattle said:


> She isn't being a hypocrite. If she is snooping it's only because he has done something wrong.


I sure hope there is sarcasm that isn't coming through in the post, lol.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I don't understand this.
> 
> You said this:
> 
> ...


If a friend is hitting on your wife and she says it's okay and you have not agreed to open marriage, but she is doing it anyway, obviously, you leave the marriage. You can't even ban her from doing it if she's going to do it anyway. I mean, it's the same as when men are watching porn and going to strip clubs. Their wives can complain, but they can't order them not to do it without being ready to divorce if they refuse. 

Why on earth do some of you men want to make women give up their friends when that's all they are, when they're not hurting you or your family or your wife and when your wife is a fully functioning adult who is more than capable of making her own decisions and is the one who knows their friend way better than you do?


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I sure hope there is sarcasm that isn't coming through in the post, lol.


Just a little.😁


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Why on earth do some of you men want to make women give up their friends when that's all they are, when they're not hurting you or your family or your wife and when* your wife is a fully functioning adult who is more than capable of making her own decisions* and is the one who knows their friend way better than you do?


Because there are some men who don’t believe the bolded statement. It’s about power and control. That whole “submissive” thing. Im confused why it flipped from “these women she’s friends with that her husband doesn’t like” to “a man who hits on her”. It’s not really explained how we got from telling her she can’t have girlfriends to some random guy hitting on her. I may have missed part of the conversation though. Regardless, adults don’t tell other adults what to do for good reasons. 

The original question was about her being “shady” about these friends she knows he hates that she rarely even sees any more, certainly not for evenings out or trips. She only sees them for occasional lunches. So she’s pretty much cut them out of her life. This doesn’t explain why she demanded his phone and won’t show him hers.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's because how friendships men have are different than friendships women have. It's what they would be tempted to do if they were out with their friends. It's projection.


Your above opinion is, sadly, a simmetrical mirror of the prejudices that SOME men have as, evidently, SOME women have about the other gender.
I´ve never assumed that my partner (when I had one) and her friends were having or planning an orgy when got together.
And just by the way NO ONE of my friends would neither be tempted to do it.
Some of them, men and women, had been my friends for about 50 years.
I choosed them right and I think that the woman in my life did it as good or even better than me.
May be THIS is also a projection?

Best wishes.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)




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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If a friend is hitting on your wife and she says it's okay and you have not agreed to open marriage, but she is doing it anyway, obviously, you leave the marriage. You can't even ban her from doing it if she's going to do it anyway. I mean, it's the same as when men are watching porn and going to strip clubs. Their wives can complain, but they can't order them not to do it without being ready to divorce if they refuse.
> 
> Why on earth do some of you men want to make women give up their friends when that's all they are, when they're not hurting you or your family or your wife and when your wife is a fully functioning adult who is more than capable of making her own decisions and is the one who knows their friend way better than you do?


For the record this is all hypothetical for me. My wife are on the same page with most everything in our lives. She and I both choose friends that are compatible with our beliefs and ideals. I would expect her to speak up if she thought I was making a friendship with someone inappropriate.

I can tell you from my own past that I had friends that were not good for my relationship with her. She never forbade me from interacting with them, but she told me how she felt. We ultimately moved to another state in part to get away from some of those friends. They were not good influences on me. I'm positive that move contributed to our long term success. Had she not told me what she thought about those friends, I may not have figured it out until it was too late. It also would have meant there weren't follow-on conversations about how those friends were impacting our relationship if I hid from her that I was still friends with them. I would have been completely wrong to hide from her that those people were still my friends because she told me her concerns about them. How disrespectful would that be? I think this was all the OP came here asking about. Why would his wife be hiding contact with these people? Spouses should be completely open with each other about who they are friends with. I don't expect my wife to tell me about every single new person she interacts with on a given day, but if she has struck up a new friendship I would be the first to know. That is just how spouses should work together.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> What is this about? All over I read about how bad women having friends is, how all GNOs and girls weekends are all about chasing men. Most of our girls nights are talking about kids and drinking wine. Sometimes we branch out and talk about work. Or even our hobbies. At no point does anyone lose their top or make out with a stranger.


I'm sure most GNOs are all innocent. I know my wife goes on some and they are not out partying and chasing men. Far from it. That is because everyone in her circle are on the same page with all that. I bet they are similar to the women you may have a GNO with. Do any of those friends have a habit of drinking and driving? Or sleeping around, or cheating on spouses? I'm betting not. And do you hide them from you husband. Again, I bet you don't. The OP is not talking about taking his wife's friends away. He is asking what is the motivation behind hiding her friends from him.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm sure most GNOs are all innocent. I know my wife goes on some and they are not out partying and chasing men. Far from it. That is because everyone in her circle are on the same page with all that. I bet they are similar to the women you may have a GNO with. Do any of those friends have a habit of drinking and driving? Or sleeping around, or cheating on spouses? I'm betting not. And do you hide them from you husband. Again, I bet you don't. The OP is not talking about taking his wife's friends away. He is asking what is the motivation behind hiding her friends from him.


It’s a long thread and frankly, I have a lot of people on ignore. Did the OP ever respond or say if the wife refused to let him see her phone after demanding to see his? That’s the thing that sticks out to me about this. She doesn’t have much contact with these women, she’s clearly pulling away from them. But if she is demanding full access to his personal stuff and not reciprocating, frankly that’s a much bigger red flag than some wild friends she barely sees any more.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> For the record this is all hypothetical for me. My wife are on the same page with most everything in our lives. She and I both choose friends that are compatible with our beliefs and ideals. I would expect her to speak up if she thought I was making a friendship with someone inappropriate.
> 
> I can tell you from my own past that I had friends that were not good for my relationship with her. She never forbade me from interacting with them, but she told me how she felt. We ultimately moved to another state in part to get away from some of those friends. They were not good influences on me. I'm positive that move contributed to our long term success. Had she not told me how what she thought about those friends, I may not have figured it out until it was too late. It also would have meant there weren't follow-on conversations about how those friends were impacting our relationship if I hid from her that I was still friends with them. I would have been completely wrong to hide from her that those people were still my friends because she told me her concerns about them. How disrespectful would that be? I think this was all the OP came here asking about. Why would his wife be hiding contact with these people? Spouses should be completely open with each other about who they are friends with. I don't expect my wife to tell me about every single new person they interact with on a given day, but if she has stuck up a new friendship I would be the first to know. That is just how spouses should work together.


Bravo!


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Did the OP ever respond or say if the wife refused to let him see her phone after demanding to see his? That’s the thing that sticks out to me about this


This exactly.

From the looks of things I agree with suspicious behavior from the wife that needs understood. Maybe she’s up to something maybe not.

But lack of clarity about what she has said or done or how she responds to OP is leaving a big hole in the picture that could be filled with anything, including misbehavior on OP’s part.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It’s a long thread and frankly, I have a lot of people on ignore. Did the OP ever respond or say if the wife refused to let him see her phone after demanding to see his? That’s the thing that sticks out to me about this. She doesn’t have much contact with these women, she’s clearly pulling away from them. But if she is demanding full access to his personal stuff and not reciprocating, frankly that’s a much bigger red flag than some wild friends she barely sees any more.


You are right that she doesn't seem to have a lot of contact with this friend group, but then again the interactions are being hidden from the OP, so could it be more than it seems?

Below are the Cliffs Notes of what the OP has said. The only thing he has said no to, is going to a bachelorette party where there were 2 male strippers. She doesn't allow him to have secret friends, has broken into his phone , stalked his social media and asked him to not be friends with certain people. All the while she hides conversations with this group. Double standard and a huge red flag.



wolfstooth said:


> One small group she used to work with years ago, from what little I know of them, is marriage toxic. My SO has maintained her relationship with these prior coworkers on the down low. Two of the three in this tight knit group have been arrested for drinking and driving, and really know how to put the F-U in fun. *There was also the private bachelorette party for one of them with 2 male strippers years ago *(which my wife did not attend).
> 
> My SO has, for all intents and purposes, kept this group of friends and me separate and their activities secret. By that I mean she doesn't mention that they are going to do something. They are, with the exception of one, single and have been friends with my wife since before her and I met. There has never been a time that I was welcome to participate socially with this group. *As a matter of fact, I get a strong sense they don't really care for me, which is prolly/maybe b/c I told her the bachelorette party was a no go.*





wolfstooth said:


> Allegedly, all this group does or tries to do, is get together once a month for lunch. My thought is, what's the big deal? *Why aren't things being done in the light? Why are conversations being hidden? If there's nothing going on, why hide it?* I really don't know what is going on or why this is such a big secret if there's nothing going on. It's definitely women and no men from from what I have been able to discern.





wolfstooth said:


> You’re grossly misunderstanding this; My wife does have friends and lots of them; *this isn’t about me giving her permission, it’s about the decency and respect of not keeping secrets and she expects the same; *I always tell her where I’m going, with who and when I’ll be back





wolfstooth said:


> yeah,* it’s just the secrecy and it’s almost always through omission and only with this one group;* I’m not really interested in seeing her texts or what they’re saying to one another; *she has broken into my phone in the past and accused me of cheating*





wolfstooth said:


> *Yes, she is; she’s asked me to not be friends with people, stalked my social media*, you get the picture





wolfstooth said:


> no, we don’t vacation separately; *she’s pretty open about her other friends but doesn’t mention this group; if you don’t know something is happening, you can’t possibly inquire about it*


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Double standard and a huge red flag.


Agreed, huge red flag. Usually her behavior would either be a reaction to something he’s done (which he doesn’t mention, and several people asked specifically about it) or projection. This sure seems like projection. It’s pure speculation that she’s actually cheating but it’s certainly very concerning and a problem even if it’s not actual cheating. That double standard isn’t right.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Below are the Cliffs Notes of what the OP has said. The only thing he has said no to, is going to a bachelorette party where there were 2 male strippers. She doesn't allow him to have secret friends, has broken into his phone , stalked his social media and asked him to not be friends with certain people. All the while she hides conversations with this group. Double standard and a huge red flag.


No argument from me on this.
Conventional wisdom says it's an open and closed case that she is projecting her own bad behavior, and is likely up to no good (whatever than means in this case).

I just can't get past the spidey sense that something is missing from this story.

As it relates strictly to her friend group, the only real suspect behavior is "hiding" it and there's not even a clear idea of what that means. At least not when compared to her normal behavior or her response about why she hides anything (because OP didn't answer those questions). OP actually seems to know quite a lot about about the friend group, their activities, the members, etc. The only part that seems to be missing is him reading the actual texts.

The other suspect behavior is how she treats OP, but that's not even what the OP was about. Was this behavior not on his mind at all? It seems to be all about not answering texts from that group when she's with him.

Just too many unanswered questions for me to be sure.
I started out thinking she was up to something, and maybe she is.
But OP's seeming evasiveness since the OP has me wondering.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's her friends. She gets to have friends.


Show us where he said she doesn't get to have friends.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Did… did someone say that?


No, but DBTR seems to completely ignore the fact that OPs wife is more unstable with the social media stalking and accusations than he is, but somehow DBTR thinks he is the a**hole here.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's not his call. And her hiding them is likely because she already knows he disapproves and isn't about to lose her friends over it.


And he's not making the call.

The only abuse here is his wife stalking his social media and trying to manipulate his with what seems to be ferocious jealousy and accusations. He is doing none of those things.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's not his call. And her hiding them is likely because she already knows he disapproves and isn't about to lose her friends over it.


Yet you say nothing about her stalking his social media and manipulation....got it.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

uphillbattle said:


> She isn't being a hypocrite. If she is snooping it's only because he has done something wrong.


Bulls***. My x-wife would ridiculously accuse me of cheating. While she was out cheating, she accused me of actually bringing a woman into our house while our kids were asleep.

She did so to make me less suspicious about what she was doing. She would look at my phone just HOPING to find something. The very idea I stayed home with the kids while she was out f****g other men, and that I was bringing a woman into the house was utterly absurd, especially when she could have come home at any time.

Some people accuse others to try to remove suspicions about what they are doing, or want to believe its true to make them feel better about cheating themselves.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Just too many unanswered questions for me to be sure.
> I started out thinking she was up to something, and maybe she is.
> But OP's seeming evasiveness since the OP has me wondering.


Same. The whole situation is fishy.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Because there are some men who don’t believe the bolded statement. It’s about power and control.


He isn't trying to control what she does. He is allowed to not be ok with what seems to be highly suspicious.

SHE is the one trying to exert more control by accusing him and stalking his phone and such.


But nobody seems to want to talk about that.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> No argument from me on this.
> Conventional wisdom says it's an open and closed case that *she is projecting* her own bad behavior, and is likely up to no good (whatever than means in this case).


BINGO!


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Girls night out is total bs. Any man that tolerates it without leaving the relationship is a chump. Tolerating a spouse who hides things is a chump. People get married to share their life. They don’t need all this “privacy” River speaks of. Nor do they want it. They want to share their life with the other person. The only thing I ever kept from my ex was the things in my life that I knew would bore her. 

I wondered the last couple of years before I discovered my ex was cheating why she had changed the way she dressed and why she wore more revealing clothing and had her hair done so perfectly snd had let it grow out long like she knew I liked but didn’t seem to care what I liked in the past.

OP seems like a very reasonable man. Yet he is alarmed at her GNO’s and her need for “privacy”. If his wife weren’t acting like a cheat, he wouldn’t be worried. He is.

To pretend this guy is some insecure, controlling man when he plainly is not and us even going too far the other direction with passivity, is doing him a huge disservice.

Sadly, if he isn’t too scared to start getting some information about why his wife needs such privacy while breaking into his phone, and he comes back and posts about it, I expect to see a sad tale of cheating.

Privacy required about GNO? Lmao
I’d give her all the privacy she needed. Along with walking papers. But I understand his weakness. Until one goes through betrayal and realizes the juice isn’t worth the squeeze regarding trying to not rock the boat, it’s hard to call foul when one sees it.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

I didn't mind my x-wife on GNOs, I was even happy to watch the kids while she was supposed to be out having fun with her friends.

Boy what a putz I was. Thankfully, I don't have to deal with that BS any longer.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

drencrom said:


> He isn't trying to control what she does. He is allowed to not be ok with what seems to be highly suspicious.
> 
> SHE is the one trying to exert more control by accusing him and stalking his phone and such.
> 
> ...


In this case, it’s kinda bending that way. This was more a general statement in reaction to other posters. This situation is so strange. There’s something we don’t know I think.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

drencrom said:


> Bulls***. My x-wife would ridiculously accuse me of cheating. While she was out cheating, she accused me of actually bringing a woman into our house while our kids were asleep.
> 
> She did so to make me less suspicious about what she was doing. She would look at my phone just HOPING to find something. The very idea I stayed home with the kids while she was out f****g other men, and that I was bringing a woman into the house was utterly absurd, especially when she could have come home at any time.
> 
> Some people accuse others to try to remove suspicions about what they are doing, or want to believe its true to make them feel better about cheating themselves.


Ya think? The issue of sarcasm was brought up shortly after I posted it.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Got


drencrom said:


> I didn't mind my x-wife on GNOs, I was even happy to watch the kids while she was supposed to be out having fun with her friends.
> 
> Boy what a putz I was. Thankfully, I don't have to deal with that BS any longer.


girl’s NIGHT out, pretty much says it all. 
married men and women spend nights with their spouse.

This OP doesn’t respond to many questions.
How is she dressing for these nights out?
How often?
When is she getting home?
Does she shower right when she gets home?

OP doesn’t get to choose her friends. He DOES get to choose his boundaries and the consequences for violating them.
One of my boundaries is being home safe at a reasonable hour, and not out bar hopping. The consequence of crossing that boundary is divorce.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

uphillbattle said:


> Ya think? The issue of sarcasm was brought up shortly after I posted it.


Ok, but usually sarcasm is followed with the eye roll emoji. I couldn't tell. Thought you were somehow on the OP is the a**hole bandwagon.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Got
> 
> 
> girl’s NIGHT out, pretty much says it all.
> ...


I know it's a bit of T/J but I'm not sure OP will come back anyway

I will defend BNO & GNO in the marital relationships.
I know feelings on this are all over the place, especially with so many betrayed spouses on this board.
But I really think this is the best, and healthiest way to handle things in a good, healthy marriage. And only that.

My wife has GNO, Girls overnight O, even GWeekendO. She's taken 1 week long trip with girls before.
In our case, I think this girl-time is healthy and needed for my wife. I encourage and support her in these outings.

Now... the "guardrails" are non-negotiable.
I know everyone. And not just casually, these are my friends too, and their husbands are my buddies.
I know when, where, and the plans.
I'm ok with the frequency. Maybe 1x per month (that's her schedule not mine)
Sometimes not that much in the recent past because covid. Sometimes more. 
But I'm comfortable with the frequency is the point.

I don't try to control her behavior, like telling her no alcohol for example, but I expect her to behave like a married woman.
The same as she does when we are together.

She can have all the privacy about what they talk about and all that, I don't pry.
I ask questions like a good husband should when she tells me about this or that afterwards.
But I don't pry unless something gets close to a guardrail.

So...as long as she can act like an adult, she will have my trust to go and have fun with her girlfriends.
If that changes, I will have bigger problems than GNO to deal with I'm afraid.

I have never had an inkling of a red flag. And let me assure you I know what they look like, even for a GNO situation. BTDT.

Anyway, I hope that helps some internet stranger.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

drencrom said:


> I didn't mind my x-wife on GNOs, I was even happy to watch the kids while she was supposed to be out having fun with her friends.
> 
> Boy what a putz I was. Thankfully, I don't have to deal with that BS any longer.





Evinrude58 said:


> Got
> 
> 
> girl’s NIGHT out, pretty much says it all.
> ...


You should take note that the OP said his wife has only gone on a few of these, GNOs over the course a years. All had SM posts that showed everything being pretty tame. He also said she never had any interest in girl's only vacations. 

This makes her behavior even more baffling. This says she really isn't doing anything she would need to hide, yet she is hiding her interactions with this group of people. Given that she knew these people before she met her husband and that they probably think he is a stick in the mud for not approving of her going to a party with strippers. I bet they talk **** about him. I think (hope) this is the worst that is going on. However, given the extreme level of secrecy and her apparent jealous streak I would be worried that she is hiding something she is doing, possibly cheating, flirting, who knows. I would be less worried about the GNOs since she really doesn't participate and more worried about what secrets she is telling them that she doesn't want her husband to see.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I know it's a bit of T/J but I'm not sure OP will come back anyway
> 
> I will defend BNO & GNO in the marital relationships.
> I know feelings on this are all over the place, especially with so many betrayed spouses on this board.
> ...


I don’t disagree with this and was that way too. But, I have changed my mind about the gals going to clubs. It’s the clubs that bother me.
When I was in a relationship I didn’t go to clubs, didn’t go out drinking with the guys. Maybe get together on a fishing trip and have a few beers. Out where hot women just waiting to jump me and take me to bed…… I had to steer clear of those areas. 😇

just one q. How did you know if she was getting close to the guardrails without asking questions?

I think this is where OP is having the problem. He doesn’t get to ask squat. I’d be upset too.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> But, I have changed my mind about the gals going to clubs. It’s the clubs that bother me.


Ah clubs... yes... that would be outside my comfort zone.
Clubs, bars, stripjoints, anyplace where men and women are on the prowl for hookups. negative. Not happening.

Thanks for that important callout.
My wife's GNO usually involve lots of food, shopping, and on the overnights, a really expensive hotel (where the girls share rooms cause girls).


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Ah clubs... yes... that would be outside my comfort zone.
> Clubs, bars, stripjoints, anyplace where men and women are on the prowl for hookups. negative. Not happening.
> 
> Thanks for that important callout.
> My wife's GNO usually involve lots of food, shopping, and on the overnights, a really expensive hotel (where the girls share rooms cause girls).


Yeah, I guess GNOs can come in many forms. If my wife is going out dancing, she wants it to be with me. She has no problem with others coming along, but that is something we do together. Her GNOs are usually just diner and drinks with her friends at a restaurant or occasionally the pub in town where locals play music and it happens to be someone in they know.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Ah clubs... yes... that would be outside my comfort zone.
> Clubs, bars, stripjoints, anyplace where men and women are on the prowl for hookups. negative. Not happening.
> 
> Thanks for that important callout.
> My wife's GNO usually involve lots of food, shopping, and on the overnights, a really expensive hotel (where the girls share rooms cause girls).


Ugh, clubs are loud and you can never get a seat or a drink. Me and my friends are old ladies: we want a table and a server and to be able to talk. We don't shop much (ugh, I hate shopping) but we do go to expensive hotels and restaurants. I usually plan hikes and other adventure-y stuff for us to do during the day so we don't spend the whole day drinking. 

On our last girl's weekend, we were in bed by 9 pm every night. Glorious sleep! 

About 13 years ago, some friends and I had a girl's weekend in Vegas. We even went to a club. But nothing untoward happened at all. We have no interest in that. I'm told there were some guys who approached us a few times, but we were so busy talking that I honestly didn't even notice. I was there to be with my friends, and I'm the one who dragged them out of the club because it was too loud and the wine list was abysmal.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Yeah, I guess GNOs can come in many forms. If my wife is going out dancing, she wants it to be with me. She has no problem with others coming along, but that is something we do together. Her GNOs are usually just diner and drinks with her friends at a restaurant or occasionally the pub in town where locals play music and it happens to be someone in they know.


The types of GNO's you are describing with your wife are those that I'd actually encourage. It's good to get out with friends here and there. Just like if I was married, my poker nights shouldn't be discouraged.

It all depends on the interactions and the type of people they are out with. Because like the OPs situation, his wife, when she did it, would do things that were conducive to one of the other friends cheating on their boyfriend, and they are all single. Meaning they are going to want to have the type of fun that really isn't suitable for a married woman. But even then, just depends on the nature of said fun. There is a reason people go to clubs...and it isn't to hang out with the same sex and engage in thought provoking conversation.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I was responding to friends having the right to privacy. If a friend confides in me I will keep her secret as long as it doesn’t affect me or my marriage. I’d be furious to learn a friend was giving her husband our texts or emails, and I don’t have anything to hide. (I’m hilarious, really 🤪) It’s the principle of the thing. Circle of trust and all that.


My wife and I are one....you tell one, the other knows...especially if it is something deviant. Know or suspect a friend is cheating. Friends who do wrong should not expect a right to privacy. If you keep a secrete like that then it makes one culpable and guilty by association. Same time if friend is having issues my wife has given me valuable advise to give them previously.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> Depending on my level of commitment at the time, I could very well be traumatized just the same.
> If that many women, in a relatively small circle of friends, are this cavalier about sex and relationships, I would probably reasonably conclude that I could never commit at all to any woman.
> I also think it is unfortunate that this is the state of relationships and marriage in this day and age.


I think the percentage of decent women now a days are in the minority.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> I think the percentage of decent women now a days are in the minority.


I'm inclined to agree. In the modern ethos, it's only cheating when the man does it.
Not the ethos of those on the board, because most of us are in agreement that either party stepping out is cheating.
What feminists want is a role reversal, where men are the housewives and to be the ones tolerant of bad behaviour on the wife, while the men have to be the patient and devoted spouse.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

wolfstooth said:


> I go to work and that’s about it; a guy at work talked me into joining the gym (not his); next thing you know, she lost her mind and joined the same gym too; ironically she went the same hours on the same days


She goes with you? Or with the other guy?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That’s true. One of my best friends is in an open marriage. It’s not for me and if I’m honest I have opinions about it that I wouldn’t share with her because it would hurt her feelings. But she’s my friend and I have faults too so…


It is kind of a "Don't tell, Don't tell"..."You don't mention it and I will not tell you what I think about it!"


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> We grew up with different perspectives. Women having zero say in how they were treated or what happened in their lives, men being held unaccountable and not having to make any effort at all in marriage, was easier for men. The marriages lasted because the women had no way out. A long marriage is not the same as a happy marriage, and what man wouldn’t be happy with a live-in maid, cook and plan B for sex to whom he owed nothing? Sounds great. That’s the marriages you “knew.” I knew a lot of those too.
> Now women can support themselves so when a man cheats or beats them or is neglectful or treats them like a servant she can leave.
> It isn’t that marriage is BAD for men, it’s that marriage isn’t bad for women any more. Men have to make an effort and many don’t want to. So they claim they’re “going their own way.” That’s fine. Fewer abusive marriages is a win for society.


Women being more independent also means they can be unfaithful because after all, if spouse divorces them, they will be fine. The have a job and can take half of everything that may have been paid for mostly by hubby. That is wrong. That is why in the Sodom and Gomorrah time we live in, men are at greater risk by default in marriage.

I think if there is adultery in a marriage the assets need to be split favoring the faithful partner. Same with custody. If wife cheats and hubby makes 2x more, then he gets 66% of assets. If he cheats then the wife gets 66% of the assets.

If divorce outright no cheating, then split 50/50.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> And the fact that you know she told him probably means he didn’t keep it to himself either.


More male bashing.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ElOtro said:


> Some misandry around?


Just look at what bartenders say...Batchelorette parties typically get wilder and over the top compared to Batchelor parties. The women, married, single and betrothed getting handsy, or worse with the strippers or other men from the bar when drinking.

I think society, well a lot of men, would be shocked if all dad's DNA tested their supposed children.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That is fair. I don’t think it was intended to insult men, but rather to say that women don’t focus on looking for sex as often as was implied. That we will go out and about with our friends and not really think about hooking up.


This applies to you and yours. There are a lot of wo.en/GNO where they are on the prowl.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's just nonsense. Friends fulfill a different role than a spouse does, and many spouses are not even good for being confidantes with and are not your "best friend." Your best friend is your best friend. A lot of men definitely don't sit still for girl talk and "what I've been doing all day" and "the cute things I saw out shopping today" any more than a lot of women don't want to sit and listen to endless sports commentary. So don't be ridiculous. That's just controlling isolating abusive think.


B.S. Of course she HAD to throw in that last line....gets one to BACK OFF. Like calling some one racist.. .DARVO???


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's just nonsense. Friends fulfill a different role than a spouse does, and many spouses are not even good for being confidantes with and are not your "best friend." Your best friend is your best friend. A lot of men definitely don't sit still for girl talk and "what I've been doing all day" and "the cute things I saw out shopping today" any more than a lot of women don't want to sit and listen to endless sports commentary. So don't be ridiculous. That's just controlling isolating abusive think.


If they are not your confidant or best friend why would one make them a spouse? You are stereo typing again. 

Sports? I could not tell you who was in the Superbowl. Don't like basketball, don't like NFL, occasionally watch part of college football game, maybe a world series game. Rather watch a Hallmark movie or some other romance or Christian movie. 

Not all women like "Girl Talk". My wife could care less what her friends or mom has been doing all day. She hates working with women for that reason. She says "I there to work and go home to my family, not chit chat with co-workers about their lives and listen to them ***** about their spouse, when they are a big reason for the issues." 

What I've been doing all day....cute outfit I saw shopping Sounds like a 10 yr olds having conversations with their BFF about the mall...or lonely cat lady needing to talk to someone.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Men and women have friendships differently and it makes it hard for men to understand women friendships. Just from my observations, guys can be great pals and hang around together but never have a serious deep discussion about anything emotional.
> 
> I remember when I was young being shocked when close in time together two different men told me I was their best friend. I didn't even know what to say because they weren't my best friend. I had old friends with 20 years of tenure I considered my best friends. One of these guys couldn't tolerate any talking about my feelings and the problems I was having with the other guy who I was in love with. He would just not respond if anything like that started so he was certainly not my best friend. He didn't want to hear about anything like that. And he was married. Everyone knew who his best friend was and it was someone he'd known since high school that he was still in a band with so I really didn't understand where he was coming from.
> 
> ...


Usually vehicles, guns, hunting and fishing, Chainsaws, power tools, etc.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Re


ABHale said:


> When they act shady with a few friends, yes. Please remember, this specific group is the one OP has a problem with. Everything is out in the open with the rest of her friends.


IKR.
Some are getting it mixed up. The wife is being secretive with this group only, they are all single, except for the old cheater and all are marriage toxic and do not like the OP because a Batchelorette Party she did not attend. 

It is not he does not like them....
It is they do not like OP 

He has issues with her secretiveness with regards to her interactions with these single party women who are marriage toxic and do not like the Him, the husband of the only girl that is married.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It is abusive if he thinks he gets to make the call whether she sees them or not. That's not his call.


He just wants her to quit being secretive. 
She has no problem making that demand of him. So his wife is secretive and abusive then...


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's not his call. And her hiding them is likely because she already knows he disapproves and isn't about to lose her friends over it.


He disproves the secrecy she is commiting. It is her marriage toxic friend group that does not like him.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> What is this about? All over I read about how bad women having friends is, how all GNOs and girls weekends are all about chasing men. Most of our girls nights are talking about kids and drinking wine. Sometimes we branch out and talk about work. Or even our hobbies. At no point does anyone lose their top or make out with a stranger.


Just because your group is not like that, don't mean it is not regular happening.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

uphillbattle said:


> [QUOTE="BigDaddyNY, post: 20495959, member: She is also a hypocrite. She has snooped in his phone, but won't let him see hers.


She isn't being a hypocrite. If she is snooping it's only because he has done something wrong.
[/QUOTE]

Bull crap. Cheaters often accuse their spouse of cheating.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> I think the percentage of decent women now a days are in the minority.


To be fair it´s not gender related IMO.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ElOtro said:


> To be fair it´s not gender related IMO.


Correct. It was a comment rebuttal to the bashing of men.

When you are one of the good guys in today's time, the actions of women give you a grim outlook for the future possibilities on a decent wife or daughter in law for your boys.

I waited to have sex till 22 looking for "The One" Finally found her at 24 as a divorcee from 10 yr serial cheating hubby. I gave up on finding the good girl that was not already sleeping around.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> This applies to you and yours. There are a lot of wo.en/GNO where they are on the prowl.


And there are plenty where the girls just get together to enjoy their friendship. Every married couple needs outside interests. Every interaction outside of marriage is NOT an affront to that union. 

Stop over generalizing. 



Divinely Favored said:


> He just wants her to quit being secretive.


He's perfectly justified in that want. It's a reasonable thing to expect. She shouldn't be secretive. She probably has resorted to being secretive because he may have over-reacted about this group of friends in the past. Two wrongs don't make a right but let's look at what we're talking about here. The wife has LUNCH with these women every so often. She doesn't go to happy hour with them; she don't vacation with them; he's not complaining that she comes home drunk after these lunches. It sounds to me like she knows where the lines are & she respects her marriage but likes her friends even if hubby doesn't


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> He's perfectly justified in that want. It's a reasonable thing to expect. She shouldn't be secretive. She probably has resorted to being secretive because he may have over-reacted about this group of friends in the past. Two wrongs don't make a right but let's look at what we're talking about here. The wife has LUNCH with these women every so often. She doesn't go to happy hour with them; she don't vacation with them; he's not complaining that she comes home drunk after these lunches. It sounds to me like she knows where the lines are & she respects her marriage but likes her friends even if hubby doesn't


I agree, but I don't think we're getting the whole story. That may be why he hasn't come back. It's really strange that she accuses him and demands to see his phone and then is secretive. There just HAS to be more to this.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

In all these 14 pages, somehow I missed the part where she demands but doesn't give transparency. That is wrong.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I agree, but I don't think we're getting the whole story. That may be why he hasn't come back. It's really strange that she accuses him and demands to see his phone and then is secretive. There just HAS to be more to this.


There is probably more.
What never ends to surprise me while sadly shoudn´t is the assumption that the bad still unknown is necessarily about one gender, the opposite of the gender of the poster.
Sad, sad, sad...


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

ElOtro said:


> There is probably more.
> What never ends to surprise me while sadly shoudn´t is the assumption that the bad still unknown is necessarily about one gender, the opposite of the gender of the poster.
> Sad, sad, sad...


You confuse me sometimes with your word choices.
Please let me restate what you said and see if I got it.

"We (on TAM) typically side with the poster without knowing the whole story."

Is that right or are you getting at something else?
Sorry, I mean no offense...trying to learn here myself.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

D0nnivain said:


> And there are plenty where the girls just get together to enjoy their friendship. Every married couple needs outside interests. Every interaction outside of marriage is NOT an affront to that union.
> 
> Stop over generalizing.


No overgeneralizing in the least. If you will read the prior comment by another poster you can see where people are coming from. Again the mentioned comment was a rebuttal to the other poster saying women do not go out on GNO looking for sex. That is why I said that applied to her and her friends, but there are many women who do use GNO to go on the prowl. Just like some men do also.


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## Imnobodynew (Feb 11, 2016)

I just got caught up this thread. I am going to agree with Divi here.

* As a BS/WS myself, I have learned that shining the light of honesty and truthfulness/openness on all issues, is hard, but it's the only to protect your marriage. My wife and I are brutally honest and it's great, cause we now know we can handle it. We can agree to disagree but understand too that we have to work out a compromise on "our issues" we share together. We also agree that there are certain issues like monogamy that are non-negotiable.

*While she might not be participating and the activities of her toxic friends (and it's more than likely she is), she is hanging around and fraternizing with them. "Toxic friends are like black mold. Hang around it enough and it will get into your blood." -Me 3/23/2022  (lol)

*If she has nothing to hide. Then show it. For example, if I am having a conversation with a guy friend and my wife asks to see my text. I let her know they are telling me some private things, but she is welcome to see it. More often than not she passes, but sometimes she wants to see it. I tell my close guy friends who open up to me that My wife has access to my phone so take that into account. I by default show her any conversation that is prolonged with any female. She never has to ask. So ask yourself why is she protecting them?

Keep your marriage simple and don't have layers of secrecy, it will last longer that way.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Imnobodynew said:


> Toxic friends are like black mold. Hang around it enough and it will get into your blood." -Me 3/23/2022  (lol)


I like this quote.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> You confuse me sometimes with your word choices.
> Please let me restate what you said and see if I got it.
> 
> "We (on TAM) typically side with the poster without knowing the whole story."
> ...


A probable source of my poor word choices may be that English is not my first language and neither the currently spoken one at my country. I appologize if this is the reason of your or other one´s confusions.

You are right on what you said above as a general statment. But is not the case.
At least in the specific answer that I was commenting (my quoted one), the poster (to whom I have the high respect she deserves) is not exactly taking the side of the OP but almost the opposite. Wich of course she haves right to.

But, reading along this thread I note some frequent (you may call them) gender biased "double standards" from both sides of the gender divide. I was pointing to what is IMO an example of it.

When the OP said he was worried about an unnusual silence from his wife about only a particular group of her otherwise numerous friends he was advised (not always in friendly terms) to:

Respect her rights by not invading her privacy.
To drop his not well founded suspictions about "women´s behaviour" during said group meetings.
I have no objections at all to the above said.

But...
You may also read that almost the same ones say that if his wife spies his phone and media...then... she probably haves a good reason to do it (to invade his privacy)... and so they infer that "There just HAS to be more to this. "
The otherwise reasonable advice about trust and respect does not apply this time.

AND
You can also read the opposite simmetrical chorus from the other side of the gender fence.

The continuity of "sex wars" by other means

That´s all what I´m pointing at. And I say it´s a sad thing.

Just in case in other posts I´ve also pointed to prejudices and unilateral assumptions from some men about women as equally wrong

Best wishes to you all.


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## Noman (Oct 17, 2014)

So what was the bottom line on this thread before all the back and forth started?

I don't think I can take 15 pages of B&F.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Noman said:


> So what was the bottom line on this thread before all the back and forth started?
> 
> I don't think I can take 15 pages of B&F.


I honestly don't think we have one! He was upset because she was shady about text messages from this one particular group of friends that she only does lunches with anymore because they're always engaging in marriage-unfriendly behavior. At one point she demanded access to his phone but won't give him access to hers. OP never said what precipitated her demand to see his phone. We're all in agreement that double standards are wrong but I strongly suspect there is more to this story than we know.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

ElOtro said:


> A probable source of my poor word choices may be that English is not my first language and neither the currently spoken one at my country. I appologize if this is the reason of your or other one´s confusions.
> 
> You are right on what you said above as a general statment. But is not the case.
> At least in the specific answer that I was commenting (my quoted one), the poster (to whom I have the high respect she deserves) is not exactly taking the side of the OP but almost the opposite. Wich of course she haves right to.
> ...


Thank you for the clarification.
I see the same gender biases and double standards. I attribute that to the human condition along with a vast array of experiences. In fact I would also appreciate those points of view, in the sense that my point of is also blinded by my own biases, thus having a radically different opinion forces me to re-think.

In the case with OP, I think he has left enough holes in the entire story that beg to be filled. In the absence of that, projection & speculation can go anywhere, which will reveal those biases easier.

Thanks for your feedback to my question. It was helpful.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

_*Round up the usual suspects !! *_


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Duplicate post


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If you married a woman you trusted who you knew had ethics, you wouldn't care so much about that.





wolfstooth said:


> there was one member of the group that was a cheater; I know because she told me she was physically cheating on her husband with another guy; she was kicked out of the group years ago for some other reason tho


So the question is, have you noticed anything in how her interactions with you have changed over the years? Decrease/increase of sex out of the blue? Suddenly wanting to try new things in bed? A change in how she dresses or her style, color of hair or makeup? Anything that would be different from your normal relationship? Moody, testy, argumentative, overly attentive or loving?


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

wolfstooth said:


> One small group she used to work with years ago, from what little I know of them, is marriage toxic. My SO has maintained her relationship with these prior coworkers on the down low. Two of the three in this tight knit group have been arrested for drinking and driving, and really know how to put the F-U in fun. There was also the private bachelorette party for one of them with 2 male strippers years ago (which my wife did not attend).


I would politely ask her to put some air in between her and them. You ought have ZERO tolerance for toxic anything. FTS!



> My SO has, for all intents and purposes, kept this group of friends and me separate and their activities secret. By that I mean she doesn't mention that they are going to do something. They are, with the exception of one, single and have been friends with my wife since before her and I met. There has never been a time that I was welcome to participate socially with this group. As a matter of fact, I get a strong sense they don't really care for me, which is prolly/maybe b/c I told her the bachelorette party was a no go.


After many years of this, they probably feel like they can do anything and everything with your wife. NO ONE, aside from you and your kids, should have the access to your wife that these animals do. NO ONE.



> Historically, their activities have included GNO at bars and vacations. One of them is constantly organizing "girls only" activities. My wife did go to a few GNO with them over the years but didn't stay out late. They did post pics on social media to document their fun and it looked pretty tame.


I get a lesbian vibe from the overall commentary. No offense. The male strippers are the distraction. 



> My SO does not go out on GNO to the bars with them any more and was never interested in a "girls only" vacation. To be sure, my SO would not be happy if I was going out with the boys and would be deeply hurt if there were female strippers on the itinerary. I don't do BNO, or female strippers. Nothing wrong with those that do, all relationships are different, but to me they're just pick pockets.
> 
> What's really odd is that my S/O never talks to them on the phone when I'm around, ever... over all these years. When my wife and I are out driving around, a text message notification will come on the info system in her car and she will always dismiss it without reading.


That IS a red flag. There is no secrecy in a marriage. If she needs secrecy she can get divorced, and if she needs space she can contact Elon Musk if she wants to, but this secret attitude is a big red flag.



> Allegedly, all this group does or tries to do, is get together once a month for lunch. My thought is, what's the big deal? Why aren't things being done in the light? Why are conversations being hidden? If there's nothing going on, why hide it? I really don't know what is going on or why this is such a big secret if there's nothing going on. It's definitely women and no men from from what I have been able to discern.
> 
> Has anyone experienced this?


I kind of had something similar happen to me years ago with my now ex wife. She's a school psychologist so she had all summers off and her and a bunch of female co workers used to go to each other's houses for pool parties. I used to ask her what the deal was and she would minimize everything, so at one point I had a conversation with her and demanded that she made clear what she was doing over there, so she started posting pictures on Facebook and telling me how the day went. 

Eventually, right before the divorce, I found out what had really happened: the pictures she was posting on FB were from the earlier part of the get-together, and what she was conveniently leaving out was that *some* of the husbands AND male friends used to join the get-together toward the end of the afternoon for a little Southern Comfort. Annnnnnnnd, among those "unsuspecting friends" that somehow made it to a GDO party was someone my wife conveniently left out of the conversation the umpteen times we talked about her party. AKA the guy my my wife cheated on me with. 

See, these social gatherings are harmless and fun... until they're not. And by the time they're not, your marriage is essentially ended without you knowing. 

Tread carefully my friend.


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