# need mostly Male opinions on this one. but Female opinions fully accepted too



## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

I'll make this as brief as I can...

H has been a serial cheater for years now...and has now promised to stop cheating and start a-new :roll eyes: not that I trust it yet.

But it seems like every time we go out, he sets off this vibe when other women are around, especially ones that are alone...
I can see him almost puff up...and it seems like he's giving these women his "approval" with eye contact.. and he gets really quiet when he does this. 

I watch him every time now, and have noticed that while he does this, the woman he does it to, puts a little smirk on her face, or she takes a second look at him after. Then when I ask him "what was that all about" he gets all uncomfortable, and starts getting really jittery..and asks, "what are you talking about"

I asked him one day if he thinks that will help my trust issues about him, and he just tells me he's not doing anything..and I'm just paranoid.

What do you all think? 
Do a lot of men do this? 
Is it appropriate that a married man does this? 
Or am I just paranoid?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Do you really like living like this?

He won't stop. 

Don't kid yourself. 

Is this what you want your life to be? Doesn't sound like an intimate relationship to me.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Do you really like living like this?
> 
> He won't stop.
> 
> ...


That's why I'm asking you all what you think.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

I eye women all the time, although I try to be discreet. My wife knows I'm doing it, even when I'm wearing shades. I have a particular tell that she has probably known about since we met. This is behavior is natural to the male. You've probably noticed that he only gets reciprocal looks from some, not all, of the women he eyeballs. The difference between me and your husband is that he's actually on the make, based on previous performance. And the women who respond to him are also on the make. The ones who ignore him are either women of integrity, already have a higher value male, or else are not ovulating.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> *he just tells me ... I'm just paranoid*.


I'm pretty sure this is the wrong thing to say to the betrayed spouse that you've serially cheated on in the past.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I think it's crap behavior because he's a "serial cheater". Why are you still there with him? Then he says you are paranoid? LOL! HE's been a cad!

I think it's crap behavior that he makes you think he'll stop it just by saying he'll stop it.

I think you have every right to be suspicious and think the worse.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> I'm pretty sure this is the wrong thing to say to the betrayed spouse that you've serially cheated on in the past.


Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not trying to kill you.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Hes scoping her out, and making himself known. 

Common bachelor tactic for hooking up.

Make eye contact for a few seconds and see the response. If she turns her back shes not interested, if she smiles or does anything positive take the seat next to her/buy her a drink. 

You're not paranoid. 

All men still check out chicks even when they're in a relationship, but hes sizing up and letting himself be sized up by another chick. 

He ain't that slick about it either. 

Hes not gonna go over there and chat her up in front of you, but if he ever sees her again and you're not there he'll have the perfect "hey I've seen you before" excuse to start a conversation.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I wonder if you could go out with him and have a friend secretly video him doing this. Then show him.

But, he's a cheater at heart. His self value is tied up in how many women he can attract. He does not value being a dedicated husband. IMHO, it's not worth living like this.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> I eye women all the time, although I try to be discreet. My wife knows I'm doing it, even when I'm wearing shades. I have a particular tell that she has probably known about since we met. This is behavior is natural to the male. You've probably noticed that he only gets reciprocal looks from some, not all, of the women he eyeballs. The difference between me and your husband is that he's actually on the make, based on previous performance. And the women who respond to him are also on the make. The ones who ignore him are either women of integrity, already have a higher value male, or else are not ovulating.


This is the thing.

I never really cared or even noticed for years. Because I knew guys are just stupid like that (no offence)  It's just now that I'm spent with all the past deception..I can't help but get so angry that he won't keep his eyes just on me.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> I'm pretty sure this is the wrong thing to say to the betrayed spouse that you've serially cheated on in the past.


I totally agree


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> This is the thing.
> 
> I never really cared or even noticed for years. Because I knew guys are just stupid like that (no offence)  It's just now that I'm spent with all the past deception..I can't help but get so angry that he won't keep his eyes just on me.


I understand completely. I don't think he's capable of stopping it. Maybe when he gets in his 50's and they quit looking back, but I doubt it. It's primal.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Kasler said:


> Hes scoping her out, and making himself known.
> 
> Common bachelor tactic for hooking up.
> 
> ...



This is my biggest worry. Lately this happens while we are at a certain store we go to. and there's a few cashiers he is always awkward around too. It bothers me so much that I don't even want to go to the store anymore with him. and I feel like punching these women for allowing him to even think he has a chance...


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> This is my biggest worry. Lately this happens while we are at a certain store we go to. and there's a few cashiers he is always awkward around too. It bothers me so much that I don't even want to go to the store anymore with him. and I feel like punching these women for allowing him to even think he has a chance...


I know your H. He's always on with the women, and it ain't just looking. I've got a male client that I consider a pretty good friend, but I wouldn't leave him alone with my wife (who can be somewhat dubious herself) under any circumstances. If my W is around he lights up like a Christmas tree and it was my wife who pointed it out to me, which means he's not hot enough for my W. My best bud in college was the same way (married 4X last I heard and probably a swinger) every chick was either somebody to make a play for or just to make a practice run. He threw away many phone numbers.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I wonder if you could go out with him and have a friend secretly video him doing this. Then show him.
> 
> But, he's a cheater at heart. His self value is tied up in how many women he can attract. He does not value being a dedicated husband. IMHO, it's not worth living like this.


I've expressed to him how much it hurts me. He has proven too many times to be a caddy husband. 

I'm just getting tired of being treated like the third wheel all the time. I want to feel like I'm the only woman he's attracted to and wants to be around. But so far, he has been failing in that department. 

He does tell me how beautiful I am (at least to him), and how much he is attracted to me, but what he says quickly dissipates when he looks at other women. I suddenly feel like I'm with a man I don't know


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> I know your H. He's always on with the women, and it ain't just looking. I've got a male client that I consider a pretty good friend, but I wouldn't leave him alone with my wife (who can be somewhat dubious herself) under any circumstances. If my W is around he lights up like a Christmas tree and it was my wife who pointed it out to me, which means he's not hot enough for my W. My best bud in college was the same way (married 4X last I heard and probably a swinger) every chick was either somebody to make a play for or just to make a practice run. He threw away many phone numbers.


Yes, exactly..he is that type. It makes me sick to my stomach now that I know it.

I'm even just contemplating leaving just based on how much s&%^ he's told me and put me through.


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

My husband was so bad about this, when we were out in public together I felt like I was alone. We'd sit at a booth in a restaurant and I remember watching his eyes the whole time. I don't think he even looked at me..maybe through me. 

I started doing it to him..looking at other men..even flirting..just to give him a dose of his own. He knew why I was doing it of course.

I told him I didn't want to go anywhere with him because of it. He is a little better. At least he isn't commenting about them now. 

Maybe you should refuse to go out with him until he can pay attention to you instead of every other chick around...


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## livnlearn (Mar 5, 2012)

What do you all think?
I think it is rude and disrespectful and shows that your husband has no regard for your feelings. 

Do a lot of men do this?
all men (and women) look at the opposite sex. only the inconsiderate/insensitive ones make it obvious. 

Is it appropriate that a married man does this? 
in the manner that your husband does it.... NO 

Or am I just paranoid?
nope. your husband is blatantly disrespecting you.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> Yes, exactly..he is that type. It makes me sick to my stomach now that I know it.


Yeah, that level of action is just intolerable unless you have very low sex rank or he's high value enough that you choose to tolerate it to keep him. Even Elvis himself was famous among women for making his dates think they were the only women in the room (E was not a true Alpha, most likely). Your H ain't gonna change his spots. He can't. Once his testosterone drops to that of an 8 year old girl, he'll probably be okay. Not before. It's just the nature of that personality type and those guys are most likely DNA hardwired to utilize that reproduction strategy.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

I don't believe flirting is 100 percent bad. I think if it can be done respectfully and in front of your spouse, then it can be healthy. Proof of attractiveness, worthiness etc.

But your husband is disrespectful and a serial cheat. Your decision to be with him I know should be obvious, but difficult to follow through with. Stay strong.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

dixieangel said:


> My husband was so bad about this, when we were out in public together I felt like I was alone. We'd sit at a booth in a restaurant and I remember watching his eyes the whole time. I don't think he even looked at me..maybe through me.
> 
> I started doing it to him..looking at other men..even flirting..just to give him a dose of his own. He knew why I was doing it of course.
> 
> ...



Yeah.. that's exactly how I feel sometimes too.. he makes me feel like I'm just a tag along. Even though, there's plenty of men looking at me, however I don't let it get to my head, and I ignore them. I don't even let it become an issue.

I did tell my H to stop it or I would never go shopping with him coincidentally after the last time I caught him being awkward, and he said he would try to make me feel better, but then he said I was being paranoid. I can see through his crap though.

Should I start to put myself "out there" just to show him how awful it feels maybe? I don't want to lower myself to his level though. I just want him to get a grip.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Yeah, that level of action is just intolerable unless you have very low sex rank or he's high value enough that you choose to tolerate it to keep him. Even Elvis himself was famous among women for making his dates think they were the only women in the room (E was not a true Alpha, most likely). Your H ain't gonna change his spots. He can't. Once his testosterone drops to that of an 8 year old girl, he'll probably be okay. Not before. It's just the nature of that personality type and those guys are most likely DNA hardwired to utilize that reproduction strategy.


What is a low sex rank?

What would qualify him to be high value?


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Vegemite said:


> I don't believe flirting is 100 percent bad. I think if it can be done respectfully and in front of your spouse, then it can be healthy. Proof of attractiveness, worthiness etc.
> 
> But your husband is disrespectful and a serial cheat. Your decision to be with him I know should be obvious, but difficult to follow through with. Stay strong.


I have made the decision that if I see a text or a phone call, or some real proof that he is still cheating, then I will have no problem leaving. I have given him this ultimatum. But until then, these little things he does just tick me off.


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## mina (Jun 14, 2012)

you are not setting any boundaries for him. he's acting like a baby in a candy store.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

mina said:


> you are not setting any boundaries for him. he's acting like a baby in a candy store.


well..I've tried to tell him throughout our R, that this is not acceptable, and I do not agree with what he is doing.. he hasn't respected that.

However, I have not left because of this one aspect, no. 

What kind of boundaries, besides leaving, do you think I should set? 

It's kind of like beating a dead horse with him


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

So how many chances have you given him so far?


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

cheatinghubby said:


> So how many chances have you given him so far?


Too many.. can't count

Rewinding back, I was stupid and did not set any boundaries at all because I never even had a thought about it.

I also trusted him WAY too much, gave him way too much lenience, and never questioned his motives. 

Time has always ticked on, my feelings had been very hard to hurt the past few years due to many reasons. So it's taken a long time for me to see that I deserve better and that I don't have to take it anymore. 

Even two months ago, I still was set in my mind to stay in this marriage through thick and thin. No matter what he decides to do. Out of stubbornness and dedication. But lately my heart has been changing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

somethingelse said:


> I've expressed to him how much it hurts me. He has proven too many times to be a caddy husband.
> 
> I'm just getting tired of being treated like the third wheel all the time. I want to feel like I'm the only woman he's attracted to and wants to be around. But so far, he has been failing in that department.
> 
> He does tell me how beautiful I am (at least to him), and how much he is attracted to me, but what he says quickly dissipates when he looks at other women. *I suddenly feel like I'm with a man I don't know*


He's done this forever right? So how could you feel like you are wiht a man you don't know? This is him. You know this.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

If your husband is a serial cheater then he should *not be eying women at all*. He should be 110% committed to earning your trust. This man will never change isn't showing you respect. Leave this man.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> He's done this forever right? So how could you feel like you are wiht a man you don't know? This is him. You know this.


I get this feeling for every bad thing he has done. 

But like I said, for years I would see the bad things he did and I'd wonder who he is, but then once they were forgotten for a while, I would see his other side (the good things about him) That's what i mean by..when he does this I feel like I don't know who he is. 

His dark sides are what I cannot understand and that I don't like. I know he is this way, but there's always that thing inside of me that will always love the man that is kind, and loving (which is what a lot of people have felt during their marriages I'm sure) It's why I have stuck it out.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

AlphaHalf said:


> If your husband is a serial cheater then he should *not be eying women at all*. He should be 110% committed to earning your trust. This man will never change isn't showing you respect. Leave this man.


I know he shouldn't be. 

I need to know that I know that I know...and I will know...because I'm getting a VAR put in our car


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## phlo2 (Aug 18, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> This is my biggest worry. Lately this happens while we are at a certain store we go to. and there's a few cashiers he is always awkward around too. It bothers me so much that I don't even want to go to the store anymore with him. and I feel like punching these women for allowing him to even think he has a chance...


I think you are in a terrible situation, that he is a serial cheater and won't change and that you are best off leaving.

I don't think it is these women you should feel like punching.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

There is a *big* difference between glancing at an attractive woman/man and seeking eye contact/flirting.

What your husband does is, IMO, outrageous. It is incredibly disrespectful to you and also says a lot about the women flitting with a man clearly with someone else.

If my wife (pre or post her cheating) did that, I would simply walk out and go home.

For your own self respect, please do not tolerate this boorish behaviour.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> What is a low sex rank?
> 
> What would qualify him to be high value?


Sex rank is also expressed as Sexual Market Value (SMV). Basically, it's desirability. A guy who is young, hung, good looking, built, loaded, socially smooth, and physically and socially dominant, and is already in a relationship with at least one woman, is going to have the very highest SMV to the widest selection of females (fat part of the bell curve). That's a high value guy. Start playing with any two of the attributes and his value drops sharply. Downgrade enough of the attributes and you get low sex rank.

Here's an example of some SMV factors.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you know that he isn't really going to stop being who he is inside and the rationalizations that enable him to serial cheat. 

You want to find a way to make him change and be true, but your seeing that he is just not wired that way.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Sex rank is also expressed as Sexual Market Value (SMV). Basically, it's desirability. A guy who is young, hung, good looking, built, loaded, socially smooth, and physically and socially dominant, and is already in a relationship with at least one woman, is going to have the very highest SMV to the widest selection of females (fat part of the bell curve). That's a high value guy. Start playing with any two of the attributes and his value drops sharply. Downgrade enough of the attributes and you get low sex rank.
> 
> Here's an example of some SMV factors.


This sort of thing applies to a certain sort of person. If that's the pool you want to swim in, then perhaps you get the sort of relationship that that sort of person forms.

To each, their own.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> This sort of thing applies to a certain sort of person. If that's the pool you want to swim in, then perhaps you get the sort of relationship that that sort of person forms.
> 
> To each, their own.


That pool would be the human race. It pretty much crosses culture and time. Read the classics. Or the Bible.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Sex rank is also expressed as Sexual Market Value (SMV). Basically, it's desirability. A guy who is young, hung, good looking, built, loaded, socially smooth, and physically and socially dominant, and is already in a relationship with at least one woman, is going to have the very highest SMV to the widest selection of females (fat part of the bell curve). That's a high value guy. Start playing with any two of the attributes and his value drops sharply. Downgrade enough of the attributes and you get low sex rank.
> 
> Here's an example of some SMV factors.


What you just said right here sums up my H to a T. He used to work out all the time when he was 17, doesn't now, but he is still built very well with his muscle structure (chest, shoulders, arms). He doesn't really need to work out. Everything else you just said fits him. Depressing


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I think you know that he isn't really going to stop being who he is inside and the rationalizations that enable him to serial cheat.
> 
> You want to find a way to make him change and be true, but your seeing that he is just not wired that way.


I don't necessarily want to make him change...I know I can't. I want him to want to change, because what he is doing is not only destructive to me and our kids, but to himself. My prayers and hopes are that he will see what he has, and stop thinking with his other "mind"


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

phlo2 said:


> I think you are in a terrible situation, that he is a serial cheater and won't change and that you are best off leaving.
> 
> I don't think it is these women you should feel like punching.


Oh believe me, I feel like using my husband as a punching bag when he does this. But the girls that are allowing him to give his "sign of approval" are in the wrong just the same. Because I'm right there beside him with my two kids, we both have wedding rings on....and these girls could care less. It's disgusting. 

And the funny part about it is, they think I am oblivious to the signals they are giving him. It's almost comical. They have no clue what him and I have been through, so they think that I am totally naive to what they are putting out there to him. I feel like saying sometimes "you do know that I am aware of what you are doing right?"


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> That pool would be the human race. It pretty much crosses culture and time. Read the classics. Or the Bible.


There is more than one value system. If you believe the one about "Alpha" males and well hung young men, then that is your choice.

Perhaps it is a matter of semantics and what defines "Alpha". My point is that not all women value the same thing, much as a certain type of man would like to think they understand the "key" to "all women".


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> Oh believe me, I feel like using my husband as a punching bag when he does this. But the girls that are allowing him to give his "sign of approval" are in the wrong just the same. Because I'm right there beside him with my two kids, we both have wedding rings on....and these girls could care less. It's disgusting.
> 
> And the funny part about it is, they think I am oblivious to the signals they are giving him. It's almost comical. They have no clue what him and I have been through, so they think that I am totally naive to what they are putting out there to him. I feel like saying sometimes "you do know that I am aware of what you are doing right?"


He is, in his eyes, further dominating you with this behaviour. He is showing the other women that he is quite capable of attracting other mates even when you are there. This is because he probably has a remarkably high opinion of himself.

An opinion you reinforce when you behave in such a submissive way.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> He is, in his eyes, further dominating you with this behaviour. He is showing the other women that he is quite capable of attracting other mates even when you are there. This is because he probably has a remarkably high opinion of himself.
> 
> An opinion you reinforce when you behave in such a submissive way.


How can I stay in this marriage, and be less submissive without him feeling that I'm a controlling W? I don't like to control people. I don't like to be the mother figure to him. So what do I do to get him to see that I am not to be messed with other than leaving? Or is that even possible to do?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> How can I stay in this marriage, and be less submissive without him feeling that I'm a controlling W? I don't like to control people. I don't like to be the mother figure to him. So what do I do to get him to see that I am not to be messed with other than leaving? Or is that even possible to do?


He knows it bothers you. He just doesn't care. 

You have already told him it bothers you. Any sane man would realise how disrespectful it is to you - heck he shouldn't do it when you're *not* there.

It is more important to him to flirt with random women than to stop you feeling hurt and humiliated. He either gets a massive kick out of the flirting, or doesn't give one jot about your feelings. My guess is that both are true.

Forgive me for being blunt, but your husband sounds like a not very nice person who is self obsessed and does not care for the feelings of others.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> He knows it bothers you. He just doesn't care.
> 
> You have already told him it bothers you. Any sane man would realise how disrespectful it is to you - heck he shouldn't do it when you're *not* there.
> 
> ...


Those are the feeling I have about him too. It's like he almost enjoys when I get upset about this. Like a rub in the face.

He is a very nice person....just when you are not married to him. 

If I ever do leave, the next woman he gets with (which will happen...he has admitted he will never be able to be alone) will have the shock of a lifetime...I'm probably the only woman he will ever find that will stay as long as I have


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> I'll make this as brief as I can...
> 
> H has been a serial cheater for years now...and has now promised to stop cheating and start a-new :roll eyes: not that I trust it yet.
> 
> ...


Paranoid? No. Far from it.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> What you just said right here sums up my H to a T. He used to work out all the time when he was 17, doesn't now, but he is still built very well with his muscle structure (chest, shoulders, arms). He doesn't really need to work out. Everything else you just said fits him. Depressing


In this case, even if he gets himself under control, the women are still going to go out of their way to approach, rub boobs against him on accident, etc. It'll taper off at 40. That's my personal experience. I quit training at 25 and was able to coast on it until about 38.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> In this case, even if he gets himself under control, the women are still going to go out of their way to approach, rub boobs against him on accident, etc. It'll taper off at 40. That's my personal experience. I quit training at 25 and was able to coast on it until about 38.


Ugh..

The things I get to look forward to 

I'm actually hoping he will lose some of his hair....maybe that will deter them 

Nah, I shouldn't wish that


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> There is more than one value system. If you believe the one about "Alpha" males and well hung young men, then that is your choice.
> 
> Perhaps it is a matter of semantics and what defines "Alpha". My point is that not all women value the same thing, much as a certain type of man would like to think they understand the "key" to "all women".


Human attributes and behaviors fall somewhere along what is known as a bell curve. You'll have outliers very, very far out on the tails of that bell curve, but generally 70% of the people are going to be within one sigma of the mean and 95% within two. Plus these behaviors, especially with regards to women, have nothing whatsoever to do with values, morals, or professed religion. The Limbic rules this particular domain. That's why the not-so-humorous term "female rationalization hamster" exists.


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## barbiegirl (Aug 18, 2012)

This is COMPLETLY off topic..BUT..i am a new user and i HAVE NO IDEA how to post a new Forum? Can ANYONE help me ive been looking everywhere to see where it says post a new forum but i don't see anything how do i do this? please Help<3 thank you


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> Ugh..
> 
> The things I get to look forward to
> 
> ...


Yes, hair loss will work wonders. I still have all mine. However, I had a retard barber recently mistake by instruction for "regular men's, left hand part, tapered back" for a total buzz job. The women loved it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

You have every right to feel as you do! Once that only the element of "suspicion" of betrayal accentuates itself, little to nothing can ever circumvent that. When a spouse comes to suspect infidelity, then that suspicion, much more often than not, is extremely well founded!


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> You have every right to feel as you do! Once that only the element of "suspicion" of betrayal accentuates itself, little to nothing can ever circumvent that. When a spouse comes to suspect infidelity, then that suspicion, much more often than not, is extremely well founded!


and believe me..my suspicions are very well founded


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

barbiegirl said:


> This is COMPLETLY off topic..BUT..i am a new user and i HAVE NO IDEA how to post a new Forum? Can ANYONE help me ive been looking everywhere to see where it says post a new forum but i don't see anything how do i do this? please Help<3 thank you


Go into the section you want to post a thread using *forums* (at the bottom of the new posts) you will see the sections (coping with infidelity, general relationship discussion, etc) 

Then near the top of the section you will see forum tools...under that you will find thread starter


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

barbiegirl said:


> This is COMPLETLY off topic..BUT..i am a new user and i HAVE NO IDEA how to post a new Forum? Can ANYONE help me ive been looking everywhere to see where it says post a new forum but i don't see anything how do i do this? please Help<3 thank you


Hi, when you are at the "Coping with Infedility" part with all the posts listed, there should be a blue button to the top left that says "New Thread". Click this to start your own thread in the forum.

hth

Chris989


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Hi & welcome.

I was wondering why you stayed with him until later on you posted you have children. That changes everything.

I assuming he is good-looking if random women are responding to him all of the time.

Too bad he has such low self-esteem that he needs constant reminders from random women that he "still has it."

Just to give you another's experience - Both of my husbands NEVER behaved like your husband.

You seem to have a good attitude about his. I guess you have the "no more cheating" thing worked out.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Yes, hair loss will work wonders. I still have all mine. However, I had a retard barber recently mistake by instruction for "regular men's, left hand part, tapered back" for a total buzz job. The women loved it.


well then I secretly hope he loses some


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

But honestly, you are asking what WE think, however, the only person who should matter is what YOU think. Does this bother you? Then go with that.


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

Vegemite said:


> I don't believe flirting is 100 percent bad. I think if it can be done respectfully and in front of your spouse, then it can be healthy. Proof of attractiveness, worthiness etc.


I used to think this too and I used to be the consummate flirt; it was fun and it built the ego. Before my EA, my stbAP told me that I flirt alot and I shrugged and said, "flirting is just harmless'. Some flirting, a few train rides, a few plane rides and a few nights out and I was in love with her.

Don't kid yourself. Flirting *can* be harmless. It's just that one or two times that it's not harmless that lands you in trouble.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Hi & welcome.
> 
> I was wondering why you stayed with him until later on you posted you have children. That changes everything.
> 
> ...


Yeah, we do have children, which makes my decisions all the more difficult. He must be as good looking to other women as he is to me, otherwise these women would not be so willing. 

However, enough is enough now, and I have my plan of action if he so chooses to cheat again and he can try to find someone who is willing to stay as long as I have..I doubt that is possible though.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

that_girl said:


> But honestly, you are asking what WE think, however, the only person who should matter is what YOU think. Does this bother you? Then go with that.


It bothers me very much. I guess I'm just confirming with others that I am not crazy or just paranoid. That what I am feeling about it is legit. It helps me to feel more secure about my stand on it.


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> Yes, hair loss will work wonders. I still have all mine. However, I had a retard barber recently mistake by instruction for "regular men's, left hand part, tapered back" for a total buzz job. The women loved it.


Yeah, baldness doesn't deter women. I started balding when I was 25; I've got a runway on top of my head and I still get lots of looks and more than a few flirts, most often from women much younger than I am (but part of that is probably my clothes and I'm well built, though not trim)

Sorry SE, but if he's trim, it won't deter them.

<joke>
Just disfigure him or something. When he's a sleep, cut off one of his legs or iron a silk shirt on his face with the iron set to 'wool'. 

Most women wouldn't want someone who is disfigured.
</joke>

Disclaimer: The poster of this message does not, in any way, condone violence against anyone.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

somethingelse said:


> However, enough is enough now, and I have my plan of action if he so chooses to cheat again and he can try to find someone who is willing to stay as long as I have..I doubt that is possible though.


IMO, just file and move on. Start working on re-building your life instead of wasting it on this guy. You know it's only a matter of time so all you're doing is stalling and praying for a miracle that won't happen.

Get out and start being happy again. It might take a while but you will be happy again.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

TCx said:


> Yeah, baldness doesn't deter women. I started balding when I was 25; I've got a runway on top of my head and I still get lots of looks and more than a few flirts, most often from women much younger than I am (but part of that is probably my clothes and I'm well built, though not trim)
> 
> Sorry SE, but if he's trim, it won't deter them.
> 
> ...


:rofl:

Oh boy...I have thought these things before sadly ..


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

somethingelse said:


> However, enough is enough now, and I have my plan of action if he so chooses to cheat again and he can try to find someone who is willing to stay as long as I have..I doubt that is possible though.


Actually, you don't have a plan. 

You have communicated a boundary and nothing more.

As I see it, you should have two plans:


The list of actions that the two of you will perform together to prevent him from cheating. This includes counseling. You may have a sub plan that involves you using subtle or overt manipulation to get him to go. Maybe even offering him the opportunity to break the 'unbreakable 7' if he goes to counseling with you for one month.
The list of actions that you will perform if he crosses the boundary that you have set for him.

He has to make his own decisions and he has to be responsible for his own actions. But he is suffering from a form illness. Losing you will be therapy in itself, yes, and that might be the catalyst that he needs.

The question is, would you take him back if he came to you 2 years later saying that he'd change. What if he does change? What if he does seek help? 

How detailed is 'your plan'?


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

cheatinghubby said:


> IMO, just file and move on. Start working on re-building your life instead of wasting it on this guy. You know it's only a matter of time so all you're doing is stalling and praying for a miracle that won't happen.
> 
> Get out and start being happy again. It might take a while but you will be happy again.


I know I know...I was on the brink of leaving totally a month ago. I had no doubt in my mind that he was a dead horse.

But I can't help but feel like his promise might lead to better (he never used to promise me he'd be totally invested into our M). It will be a miracle, but miracles are still possible right?

I'm still sticking to putting a VAR in our car to see what he's up to. If I find anything odd...he's cut off


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Some women don't see a balding, out of shape beer belly, older man. If they think he's got money, all they see is green.

Like Sinbad the comedian said,

You're a 50 year old man, that 20 year old isn't with you because of your looks, she wants your house. You don't see 20 year old girls chasing after a homeless 50 year old guy on the street do you?

And yes OP, miracles do happen, how do you think my wife stayed with me.


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

Note: Plan 1 is only relevant if you really do want to keep him. If you are, however, hoping that he'll cheat to give you the excuse that you need to leave, then you're being dishonest with yourself.

I'm not going to suggest what you should do other than take a hard look at yourself. What do you really want out of this? Then make a plan to get it.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

TCx said:


> Actually, you don't have a plan.
> 
> You have communicated a boundary and nothing more.
> 
> ...



Hmm..I will tell him I want to go to therapy with him and see what he says. But he will most likely blow it off. I will try anyway

and good question about taking him back..I haven't really thought that through yet

I was thinking, just leave...hope that he will move on and let me move on (which won't be the case...he will try for R with me if I leave), but if he was to actually move on and initiate help for himself all on his own, on his own time, and not be with a GF in the meantime....

that would be the ONLY way I would take him back. Is if he had done everything in that order. I would not take him back if he decided to find a temporary GF while he was working on himself that's for sure. I would need concrete evidence that he was not with anyone during that time, and was in fact in counselling sessions.

He would have a hard go to get me back


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

cheatinghubby said:


> Some women don't see a balding, out of shape beer belly, older man. If they think he's got money, all they see is green.
> 
> Like Sinbad the comedian said,
> 
> ...


What did you do to make your M work?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> What did you do to make your M work?


I don't think your husband is anywhere near age 50, is he?


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> I don't think your husband is anywhere near age 50, is he?


No, her and tcx was talking about balding and still attracting the opposite sex.

As to how we made it work, alot of hard work and alot of time. And me not sleeping with other women anymore really helped. And my wife only gave me one chance and I have no intention of asking her to give me a 2nd chance ever.


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

somethingelse said:


> I was thinking, just leave...


That's not a plan. That is a knee jerk reaction.

Where would you stay? What would you do for money? What kind of expenses would you be looking at? Can you save money for the possibility just in case? What about the kids school? What would you do if he ambushed you at the school? What about lawyers fees? Has he signed something saying that if he gets caught cheating again he forfeits custody? ie - does he truly understand what he will lose if he cheats again?

Please forgive me for saying this but if he is what others think he and you still love him, you might consider making him understand the cost of failure. If he doesn't understand the cost, he will have nothing to learn from.

And it won't hit him at first. There will be the initial reaction of loss and fear but that will pass and turn into unhappiness or even depression. People do some ****ed up stuff when they hit this stage; I did.. I climbed into a bottle and I am terrified of alcohol because my father is a raging alcoholic that destroyed his entire life.

In his case, he'll probably go out and find his version of 'the bottle'.



somethingelse said:


> hope that he will move on and let me move on (which won't be the case...he will try for R with me if I leave)


Bingo.



somethingelse said:


> but if he was to actually move on and initiate help for himself all on his own, on his own time, and not be with a GF in the meantime....


So I ask you, what is it about him having one or more temporary gf's that matters to you. Is it because it would be a trigger to you? Think about this rationally... you've left him... you can't expect him to be faithful when you've told him that you want nothing to do with him. And I suspect that you'd need to send him that message... he'd need to truly think that he lost you not that you were just mad and it would blow over.



somethingelse said:


> that would be the ONLY way I would take him back. Is if he had done everything in that order. I would not take him back if he decided to find a temporary GF while he was working on himself that's for sure. I would need concrete evidence that he was not with anyone during that time, and was in fact in counselling sessions.


What if he screws his brains out for a few months and then realizes that you are the greatest thing that ever happened to him? Too late?

Unrelated question - were you his first or second sexual partner btw?



somethingelse said:


> He would have a hard go to get me back


And so it should be. He should have to fight hard to get you back for two reasons. First to get that sense of accomplishment if he manages it (I can't believe she took me back) which makes you 'valuable' in his mind. Second, you would have to start dangling dissatisfaction with his behavior in front of him to make him less secure in the relationship with you.

Also, consider what consequences he's had so far when he's cheated. None. You have trained him that it's okay to cheat. I'm not placing blame on you, you don't need to take responsibility for his cheating. I'm just saying that he might hear the words "this is your last chance" but they may not register in his brain. He probably doesn't understand what that really means and I doubt he's really thought about it other than from some abstract fear.

Fear only lasts so long. We learn most when we fail. If you want to help him heal, IMHO, you should help him understand the cost of failure so that if he does fail, he knows what's coming so that you can say, "I tried to tell you but you didn't listen. Maybe you won't make the same mistake with the next one.".


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

TCx said:


> Where would you stay? What would you do for money? What kind of expenses would you be looking at? Can you save money for the possibility just in case? What about the kids school? What would you do if he ambushed you at the school? What about lawyers fees? Has he signed something saying that if he gets caught cheating again he forfeits custody? ie - does he truly understand what he will lose if he cheats again?


I have plans for what I would do if I leave. and my kids aren't in school yet, so that wouldn't be an issue. I would be going to a financial aide lawyer for D. and him? Sign something like that? Not in his lifetime...

I'm sure it's crossed his mind what he would lose if I left. But he has mentioned to me before, that if I leave, can we still be "buddies"...I'm not sure if he's serious, but at the time it seemed that way. I don't think he ever thinks that he will ever truly lose me. I've been here through thick or thin....kind of hard for him to picture me gone.




TCx said:


> Please forgive me for saying this but if he is what others think he and you still love him, you might consider making him understand the cost of failure. If he doesn't understand the cost, he will have nothing to learn from.


The closest to making him understand the cost of losing me, was when I was 12 hours away staying with my parents..I told him I wasn't coming home. I was done. I didn't want anything to do with him. That if he wanted he could come see the kids whenever he saw fit (I would never deny him access to our kids) I don't want him resenting me and I also want our girls to have their father.



TCx said:


> And it won't hit him at first. There will be the initial reaction of loss and fear but that will pass and turn into unhappiness or even depression. People do some ****ed up stuff when they hit this stage; I did.. I climbed into a bottle and I am terrified of alcohol because my father is a raging alcoholic that destroyed his entire life.


I'm sure he would be very upset and heart broken for a while and trying to scramble up any excuses he could to get me back.



TCx said:


> In his case, he'll probably go out and find his version of 'the bottle'.


I'm very certain that he would fill the void with other women or a woman to occupy his time. 



TCx said:


> So I ask you, what is it about him having one or more temporary gf's that matters to you. Is it because it would be a trigger to you? Think about this rationally... you've left him... you can't expect him to be faithful when you've told him that you want nothing to do with him. And I suspect that you'd need to send him that message... he'd need to truly think that he lost you not that you were just mad and it would blow over.


He doesn't seem to have a problem with it while he's married to me. So why not, if I'm gone. But I already know that. That's why I think that it would be a next to nothing chance that he could actually win me back. 



TCx said:


> What if he screws his brains out for a few months and then realizes that you are the greatest thing that ever happened to him? Too late?


Then that's too bad for him.

If he chooses to do that, then he is not truly remorseful, nor does he care if I've left. There would be no possibility of R even if he was truly changed after that. and he already tells me I'm the greatest thing that has ever happened to him....so that would just be "talk" in my eyes.



TCx said:


> Unrelated question - were you his first or second sexual partner btw?


He's been with plenty of women before me (around 7). He had a baby with one of his ex's too before he met me.



TCx said:


> And so it should be. He should have to fight hard to get you back for two reasons. First to get that sense of accomplishment if he manages it (I can't believe she took me back) which makes you 'valuable' in his mind. Second, you would have to start dangling dissatisfaction with his behavior in front of him to make him less secure in the relationship with you.


I agree.. and I would be very dissatisfied if all this came to pass anyway



TCx said:


> Also, consider what consequences he's had so far when he's cheated. None. You have trained him that it's okay to cheat. I'm not placing blame on you, you don't need to take responsibility for his cheating. I'm just saying that he might hear the words "this is your last chance" but they may not register in his brain. He probably doesn't understand what that really means and I doubt he's really thought about it other than from some abstract fear.


You're right. I haven't given him any reason to stop cheating...not that he should be anyway...but you're right



TCx said:


> Fear only lasts so long. We learn most when we fail. If you want to help him heal, IMHO, you should help him understand the cost of failure so that if he does fail, he knows what's coming so that you can say, "I tried to tell you but you didn't listen. Maybe you won't make the same mistake with the next one.".


Well..I'm giving him one more time to prove something to me. Which is beyond my limits already. I think I have been very gracious with him. If he thinks he can do better than me, then he will cheat, and he can have whoever he cheats with....because he won't have me to snuggle into at night anymore


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

It's just a matter of respect and self worth. Apparently his is not so much.


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

somethingelse said:


> The closest to making him understand the cost of losing me, was when I was 12 hours away staying with my parents..I told him I wasn't coming home.


But you didn't follow through. The thing about teaching people things is that you have to follow through when you say something. Never say something that you aren't willing to do as going back on your word devalues you.

Children are great at manipulating their parents in exactly this way.



somethingelse said:


> I'm very certain that he would fill the void with other women or a woman to occupy his time.


It sounds to me like you've already made your decision and you're just going through the motions. I could be wrong.



somethingelse said:


> You're right. I haven't given him any reason to stop cheating...not that he should be anyway...but you're right


Then kick that message into his head and mean it this time. Enlist the help of your friends and family to help you through it. It sounds like he might also be persuasive and you have history. Get them to support you. Make it more than just about you and him... 



somethingelse said:


> Well..I'm giving him one more time to prove something to me. Which is beyond my limits already. I think I have been very gracious with him. If he thinks he can do better than me, then he will cheat, and he can have whoever he cheats with....because he won't have me to snuggle into at night anymore


Too gracious. I'm just saying that if you're genuinely interested in giving him this last chance that his best chance of success is through clear and concise communication.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

TCx said:


> But you didn't follow through. The thing about teaching people things is that you have to follow through when you say something. Never say something that you aren't willing to do as going back on your word devalues you.
> 
> Children are great at manipulating their parents in exactly this way.


Well..what happened was I told him I wasn't coming home unless he could promise me that he would be 100% faithful to me in all ways. and that if he couldn't promise me that and mean it, then I was not coming back home. 

He broke down and told me that he hates what he does, and he doesn't want to do it anymore. Then he promised me he would be faithful from then on. So after humming and hawing, I came back, and ever since have been giving him a hard time and I still tell him he has to keep up on his promise. 



TCx said:


> It sounds to me like you've already made your decision and you're just going through the motions. I could be wrong.


I am going through the motions now. I can't trust a hair on his head. Because he's done this over and over to me I am just in preparation mode. I have never been this way before. I don't like it, but don't know how to change it now.



TCx said:


> Then kick that message into his head and mean it this time. Enlist the help of your friends and family to help you through it. It sounds like he might also be persuasive and you have history. Get them to support you. Make it more than just about you and him...


That is the one thing that is hard about living with him. He's very manipulative and persuasive. I've learned over the years to overcome him trying to turn conversations around. So I feel a bit of empowerment from that. He also is probably a bit threatened now that my parents know what has been going on the past few years. He can't hide it as much now.



TCx said:


> Too gracious. I'm just saying that if you're genuinely interested in giving him this last chance that his best chance of success is through clear and concise communication.


I am always expressing my desires to him. What I see if he does not change, what will happen. How everything will change on his end and on mine. How I will not be letting him back into my life if so much as one sign of him cheating. 

I am also not letting down his A's anymore. (I used to be upset for maybe a week, then I would just let it go, and move on).. I didn't like the inconvenience of dealing with his A's. I felt that they were not worthy of me worrying over them and I didn't want more problems than he had already caused. Big mistakes on my end.

He hates that I want to know information now. But I still ask questions. He's not used to it. But I don't care. 

I'm trying to prevent another failure...even though, ultimately, if he wants to, he will cheat. I'm not his mother, I'm his wife... and if he wants to go there, he will no matter what I think or what consequences are waiting.


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## Biscuits (Aug 2, 2012)

I had the opportunity to cheat on my wife. I went to pick up my kids from my EX's house, and she started talking about how she wanted me back, (my wife and I werent married at the time) and tried to kiss me. I pulled back instantly, and the only thought running throuhg my mind was, how am I going to tell my wife. I hadnt done anything wrong, but I still felt guilty because I placed myself in that position in the first place. Now, my LOVE for my wife was greated than my LUST for my EX wife, and that stopped me from cheating. I dont know how in the world a man can cheat on his wife, and put LUST of another woman over LOVE. Love to me is more important, and makes lust better, for your partner. Also, my wife cheated on me with her EX, so Im confused at what to do right now as well. But, if he cheated on you more than once, get out. One time is still not ok but you can justify a major mess up and get past it. Twice is just not acceptable, more than twice and he definitely does not love you.


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## lifeisnotsogood (Jun 11, 2012)

Let's see...serial cheater=Divorce. You must have extremely low self esteem.


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

lifeisnotsogood said:


> Let's see...serial cheater=Divorce. You must have extremely low self esteem.


Jesus Christ "you people" really piss me off. Please read this:

» How to Give Kind Criticism, and Avoid Being Critical :zenhabits


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

lifeisnotsogood said:


> Let's see...serial cheater=Divorce. You must have extremely low self esteem.


No..I'm quite happy with who I am. I wouldn't change a thing about myself. If you feel like contributing some kinder words about my situation, then I welcome you to it.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

TCx said:


> Jesus Christ "you people" really piss me off. Please read this:
> 
> » How to Give Kind Criticism, and Avoid Being Critical :zenhabits


TC ...as much as I appreciate all your kind words and you sticking up for me..could you please please not use the Lord's name in vain...


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Biscuits said:


> I had the opportunity to cheat on my wife. I went to pick up my kids from my EX's house, and she started talking about how she wanted me back, (my wife and I werent married at the time) and tried to kiss me. I pulled back instantly, and the only thought running throuhg my mind was, how am I going to tell my wife. I hadnt done anything wrong, but I still felt guilty because I placed myself in that position in the first place. Now, my LOVE for my wife was greated than my LUST for my EX wife, and that stopped me from cheating. I dont know how in the world a man can cheat on his wife, and put LUST of another woman over LOVE. Love to me is more important, and makes lust better, for your partner. Also, my wife cheated on me with her EX, so Im confused at what to do right now as well. But, if he cheated on you more than once, get out. One time is still not ok but you can justify a major mess up and get past it. Twice is just not acceptable, more than twice and he definitely does not love you.


He is the cake eater type. He loves me and he wants me for the rest of our lives. But he doesn't understand fully what loving me is supposed to mean. He doesn't know what true dedication is.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

He will never stop, he'll be in his 60s and still be cheating and whoever W he is with at the time.

Staying with him is a waste of time and energy; he is screwed up in the head and believes he is justified in cheating and knows he can get away with it. Forgiving one time is one thing but after the second its establish a pattern that he knows he will always be able to talk his way back. He has very little motivation to change.

It’s a catch-22, they only thing that “might” make him stop cheating is a D but if you R he will just end up cheating again (thinking he still has control over you to keep you from leaving for good). You have to decide if its worth staying with a ticking time bomb waiting for the next A to drop.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> He is the cake eater type. He loves me and he wants me for the rest of our lives. But he doesn't understand fully what loving me is supposed to mean. He doesn't know what true dedication is.


Alpha. I seriously don't believe it is possible for a pure Alpha to be sexually exclusive to one woman. I believe in Free Will, but part of what makes an alpha male alpha is the innate inability to have sexual restraint with women who are coming on to him. Pretty much hardwired.

All the women want an Alpha. Few get one to commit. Only Rose Kennedy types will stay with one; at least in modern times. These are women who accept the pre-1850 view as to what constitutes the natural state of the male (think Biblical marriage).


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

The H in this thread sounds like my deal ol' dad. He's a real badazz Alpha male, and he has always tried to nail everything he can. His marriage to my mother didn't slow him down a bit. I have a half-sis out there somewhere, conceived while my mom was carrying me. She finally had enough of his shyte, and divorced him many years ago.

I don't think you're going to change a guy like this.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

ArmyofJuan said:


> He will never stop, he'll be in his 60s and still be cheating and whoever W he is with at the time.
> 
> Staying with him is a waste of time and energy; he is screwed up in the head and believes he is justified in cheating and knows he can get away with it. Forgiving one time is one thing but after the second its establish a pattern that he knows he will always be able to talk his way back. He has very little motivation to change.
> 
> It’s a catch-22, they only thing that “might” make him stop cheating is a D but if you R he will just end up cheating again (thinking he still has control over you to keep you from leaving for good). You have to decide if its worth staying with a ticking time bomb waiting for the next A to drop.


I do have a feeling that he is a ticking time bomb. It has taken me a long time to see who he is, and understand who he is. That's why I have stayed so long. 

However, we have children, and they love their dad. If we didn't have kids, I would have been gone for sure the last time he was talking to other women (or more likely before this). But since we do, I can justify staying this last time. To give him that. He will know for sure after this, that he forced me to leave if he cheats again.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> That's why I'm asking you all what you think.


It all boils down to what you think!
I cant see anything promising for you guys from
him being a serial cheater.
you are granting him the satisfaction of hurting you time and time again.
I really feel that you should walk away from this man sense he seems to enjoy walking more towards other women


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

How many chances will you give him?


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

TCx said:


> Jesus Christ "you people" really piss me off. Please read this:
> 
> » How to Give Kind Criticism, and Avoid Being Critical :zenhabits


i dont think this was meant as insulting but more like questioning the op for self esteem.
not that i can imgaine she feels to great sense she is married to someone who always gives what he should to her to another.
i know that would kill my self esteem.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> He is the cake eater type. He loves me and he wants me for the rest of our lives. But he doesn't understand fully what loving me is supposed to mean. He doesn't know what true dedication is.


honey you cant honestly believe he wants YOU when he isnt having you.
you cant understand love when you live a loveless life and a 
fufilling sexual life.
i cant see him being dedicated to anything other than his penis.
i feel really bad for you.
i know that you just want all of him and you have the right to want that. you are his wife.
i hope that you decide on leaving, it will be much better on you.
you shouldnt have to worry about being in public with him and having to watch him because you are worried he will be on the prowl again.
and he shows those sigsn right in front of you.
do you really want to be with someone you have to watch because you KNOW he will at some point stirke again?


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Alpha. I seriously don't believe it is possible for a pure Alpha to be sexually exclusive to one woman. I believe in Free Will, but part of what makes an alpha male alpha is the innate inability to have sexual restraint with women who are coming on to him. Pretty much hardwired.
> 
> All the women want an Alpha. Few get one to commit. Only Rose Kennedy types will stay with one; at least in modern times. These are women who accept the pre-1850 view as to what constitutes the natural state of the male (think Biblical marriage).


Well..I'm not that type of woman. I am very patient and willing to forgive. But I believe this passage 

2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

So I don't believe in fornication outside the M, and I don't believe in multiple wives because this was written in the New Testament


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> How many chances will you give him?


He has one more. No more than that.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> He has one more. No more than that.


have you said that everytime this happened?

the reason i am asking is because i have.
and all it got everytime was what i asked for.
to a person you keep giving chances to they know you are weak in that area, you obviously have a a very forgiving heart to do so jsut as i did and pretty much still do.
i dont want to see you suffer.
this man is taking full advantage over the fact that he knows you will not leave him because this time wont be his last time!


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

bkaydezz said:


> honey you cant honestly believe he wants YOU when he isnt having you.
> you cant understand love when you live a loveless life and a
> fufilling sexual life.
> i cant see him being dedicated to anything other than his penis.
> ...


What he does is his own problem. Like I've said many times on here. This is his last chance for romance. I gave him the ultimatum (which I have never done before this) a month ago. I told him I wasn't coming home, he made huge promises to me (which he's never done before) and so, I told him I'm giving him one LAST chance. Made it very clear to him.

If he so chooses to step over the line and does this again to me, he will be sorry. I will have a lawyer at his throat right away. He will be scrambling and shocked at what I will do.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> What he does is his own problem. Like I've said many times on here. This is his last chance for romance. I gave him the ultimatum (which I have never done before this) a month ago. I told him I wasn't coming home, he made huge promises to me (which he's never done before) and so, I told him I'm giving him one LAST chance. Made it very clear to him.
> 
> If he so chooses to step over the line and does this again to me, he will be sorry. I will have a lawyer at his throat right away. He will be scrambling and shocked at what I will do.


Now i am confused.
If it is his problem why are you so worried about it then?

this is everybit your problem.
its your marriage.
YOU are the one that is trying to save it.
hes just in a comfortable place with you.
he can not commit to loving you fully, you even 
said that yourself.
i dont know why you would settle for that.
you seem to be to good for it IMO.

but whatever you do happen to do.
I wish you sanity.
Best wishes with it.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> I'll make this as brief as I can...
> 
> H has been a serial cheater for years now...and has now promised to stop cheating and start a-new :roll eyes: not that I trust it yet.
> 
> ...


If I had done this my wife would have done this. My wife would have A. given me the eyes of death. then B. walked out of the restaurant.

You should practice this. I did this once when I was only 23 or so and we were getting close to the big M. I have never ever done it since. Remember you can't control how he acts. You can only control how you act. 
Next time leave the place and him. He will likely chase you out the door. Once he gets in the car tell him fine if you get to flirt I get to flirt. I would then precede to drive to the closest male strip club and tell him that if you want to stay with me. You are going to have to watch me enjoy other men for the rest of the night.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

bkaydezz said:


> have you said that everytime this happened?
> 
> the reason i am asking is because i have.
> and all it got everytime was what i asked for.
> ...


I have never told him this before. I always just told him to never do it again to me. But I never said one last chance ever since the time I've known him.

Thank you for your concerns and for caring about me. I appreciate it. However, I don't want you to feel sorry for me. I can handle a lot of things. I don't sit around and sulk all day or cry myself to sleep. I used to a long time ago, but I don't anymore. I want to be happy just like everyone else does. 

I think I've just needed to find out more of who I am, and become comfortable with being alone. I've spent a lot of time in prayer too. I know what I want now and I know that God does not want me to suffer anymore. So I am granting my H this last chance out of respect and love (despite whether he shows me respect or love)..if he cannot grab it and take hold, then that's what he has chosen for his life.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

bkaydezz said:


> Now i am confused.
> If it is his problem why are you so worried about it then?
> 
> this is everybit your problem.
> ...


I mean that I'm handing him the responsibility of keeping this M together now. It's his problem whether I leave or not. He will decide... so that he knows it is because of him that this M failed.

Machiavelli is right when he says that my H is an Alpha male. It's hard to get them to see straight. Let alone to take responsibility of ruining an M. 

I agreed to give him one last chance, I will stick by that. I will have much better peace of mind than if I just left today.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

I know it is hard for everyone to understand why I would even consider giving my H this one last chance. You yourselves would have left the second time around or possibly even the first time. I have not been a perfect W. I have made my own mistakes in this M too. 

Humans are weak in one way or another. Very few humans on this earth can say that they have not submitted to something before that they shouldn't have. And there are some people (my H included), who have a harder time fighting evils. 

I myself used to believe that weak people are those that cannot handle rough patches and leave on whims. I don't now.

However, I don't have respect for those who cannot see that they are not perfect and are quick to think that they would do so much differently if in another's shoes. And no, I am not saying that any of you believe you are perfect. But there are people out there that do believe they could do no wrong. That is why I do not let things bother me as much as some do.

We all have our own views and breaking points....mine just happens to be more lenient and further in. I have a lot of patience and willingness to see past my H's faults and his inability to be faithful. I know this about myself. 

I also believe that because of what I have been through, if I was to ever be with another man, I would not stay after one A. I have learned too much to ever go through that again.

And truth be known, I've have been seeking the courage within myself to leave. That is why I posted this thread. I wanted to ask if what my H was doing while shopping with me and our kids is wrong, more so to build up what I already know to be true. It helps me have firmer grounds. and prepares me for what I believe is to come. 

Closer to when I met my H, I spoke to my mom about whether to stay with my H or give him up. She said to me, she cannot give me that answer. It is up to me what I want, what she wants is not what will make me satisfied in my decisions. She said that when I know, that I know, that I know, I will be ready to leave. That was 6 years ago. It's taken 6 years for me to come to this decision. My mom knows my heart. I love her so much.

This is very hard for me to write, because even the fact that I'm writing this shows that I am already mourning the failure of this R. I wanted nothing more than to have a good life, with a great husband and more children. But it must not be in the cards for me. God's plan for me is much more than what I thought it would be. I know that now. What I am going to do with my life, on assumption that my H will cheat again...I don't know for sure. I can plan all I want, and still, what I want is not what matters. To me, what matters is what God wants for me. (I don't know whether any of you believe in God or not, but I believe) So that's where I am at. 

I am not worried anymore about what my H will choose. Because he has his own free will to choose. and I have mine. I can only be on my guard. And worrying will do nothing but cause me to be sick, so I will try not to do that in the meantime.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

I can understand you, and the way you feel.
I think its wonderful that you have put your foot down to give him his ultimatum so that he will see you are not testing him to see if he will or not. It would be as you say his own problem if he decides to do it after you have warned him.
Im glad that you are a strong women and are doing this out of love and love for the Lord. I just wish it wasnt something you had to do.
But as far as the Alpha male, ugh. Dont you wish you knew he was this beforehand so you wouldnt suffer...But then again you wouldnt have your amazing kids and your story to show you another way in your future.
I know it is hard for you to share your hurt as it is for everyone else here. Im glad that you choose to share it with us.
Just keep us updated on how things progress over time


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

bkaydezz said:


> I can understand you, and the way you feel.
> I think its wonderful that you have put your foot down to give him his ultimatum so that he will see you are not testing him to see if he will or not. It would be as you say his own problem if he decides to do it after you have warned him.
> Im glad that you are a strong women and are doing this out of love and love for the Lord. I just wish it wasnt something you had to do.
> But as far as the Alpha male, ugh. Dont you wish you knew he was this beforehand so you wouldnt suffer...But then again you wouldnt have your amazing kids and your story to show you another way in your future.
> ...


Thanks bkay,  

I wish sometimes that I would have known who is was from the start...but no use in having regrets I guess. and I love my babies.

I will definitely keep you all posted


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

somethingelse said:


> I wish sometimes that I would have known who is was from the start...but no use in having regrets I guess. and I love my babies.


IMHO, regretting our decisions is pointless. We make the best decisions that they are able to with the tools we have. Good decisions give us confidence, bad decisions give us wisdom to make better decisions.

You are where you are. You can't change the past, you can only make a better future. Life "is", not "was".

Hmm.. I think I have a new .sig.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> Well..I'm not that type of woman. I am very patient and willing to forgive. But I believe this passage
> 
> 2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
> 3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
> ...


Actually, the NT only prohibits polygyny only for "elders and deacons." The Greek word translated "fornication" and it's Latin equivalent "fornicatio" mean "prostitution," rather than the modern English meaning that has evolved over the last few centuries. *However, all that has absolutely nothing to do with your situation, since he took modern vows to "forsake all others." Nobody held a gun to his head at the altar: a deal is a deal and he's violated the contract.*


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

TCx said:


> IMHO, regretting our decisions is pointless. We make the best decisions that they are able to with the tools we have. Good decisions give us confidence, bad decisions give us wisdom to make better decisions.
> 
> You are where you are. You can't change the past, you can only make a better future. Life "is", not "was".
> 
> Hmm.. I think I have a new .sig.


You are completely right TCx

and that's a good signature


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Actually, the NT only prohibits polygyny only for "elders and deacons." The Greek word translated "fornication" and it's Latin equivalent "fornicatio" mean "prostitution," rather than the modern English meaning that has evolved over the last few centuries. *However, all that has absolutely nothing to do with your situation, since he took modern vows to "forsake all others." Nobody held a gun to his head at the altar: a deal is a deal and he's violated the contract.*


Ah....crud Machiavelli. Not this again. My husband says that all the time. That the scripture I just gave you does not translate into a man should only have one wife in a marriage. He just says it means that every woman he has, he should have benevolence to, and control over her body.  It's a hard one to swallow. 

I guess I have to give up on that one. That's one that lots of people like to debate. My parents believe that that scripture means just one wife. I wish it was true.

But you're right. In our culture, he swore to forsake all others and committed to me knowing that I am monogamous. Good luck to him trying to find someone who isn't.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

Somethingelse, you show a lot of courage. You have an awful decision to make. I know you say it ultimately will be your CH who decides, but at some point you will decide.

And your decision is difficult and either outcome (stay or go) just sucks. I know, I'm in the same place. 

It's just so hard to accept reconsiliation, when you know what they've done & who they are. Thanks for sharing.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> Ah....crud Machiavelli. Not this again. My husband says that all the time. That the scripture I just gave you does not translate into a man should only have one wife in a marriage. He just says it means that every woman he has, he should have benevolence to, and control over her body.  It's a hard one to swallow.
> 
> I guess I have to give up on that one. That's one that lots of people like to debate. My parents believe that that scripture means just one wife. I wish it was true.


The debate on that stuff is between the Sola Scriptura crowd (the guys who use the Bible as it was understood 2000 years ago as the source) and those who also go by the "added on" Churchian traditions of the last 500 years. People forget and others deny falsely that the Jews in Christ's time were polygynists. *Your husband is a real rat to try to justify his behavior with the scriptures. * Furthermore, these were *not the terms you entered into marriage* under. He is not only NOT a man of his word, he's a Clintonian (another alpha) law twister and self-justifier. Yet more strikes against him.



somethingelse said:


> But you're right. In our culture, he swore to forsake all others and committed to me knowing that I am monogamous. Good luck to him trying to find someone who isn't.


Alphas and Sigmas, or even good fakers, can and do get some low sex rank women to go along with them on the polygamy journey. I know a goofy guy who claims to be a Druid and he has a couple of goofy "wives" that probably only rank about 4 on a good day. My wife watches a tv show about this with some Mormon guy who could probably get a 7 woman, but he has a whole flock of 3s and 4s.

A top level Alpha can even get top level women to go along. If not formally, then in a "soft harem" where the women know about each other, but don't live under the same roof. Think Kennedys again.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> The debate on that stuff is between the Sola Scriptura crowd (the guys who use the Bible as it was understood 2000 years ago as the source) and those who also go by the "added on" Churchian traditions of the last 500 years. People forget and others deny falsely that the Jews in Christ's time were polygynists. *Your husband is a real rat to try to justify his behavior with the scriptures. * Furthermore, these were *not the terms you entered into marriage* under. He is not only NOT a man of his word, he's a Clintonian (another alpha) law twister and self-justifier. Yet more strikes against him.


He definitely twists things to go his way....very much so, and often. So I'm with a Mega Alpha then?? :slap: 




Machiavelli said:


> Alphas and Sigmas, or even good fakers, can and do get some low sex rank women to go along with them on the polygamy journey. I know a goofy guy who claims to be a Druid and he has a couple of goofy "wives" that probably only rank about 4 on a good day. My wife watches a tv show about this with some Mormon guy who could probably get a 7 woman, but he has a whole flock of 3s and 4s.
> 
> A top level Alpha can even get top level women to go along. If not formally, then in a "soft harem" where the women know about each other, but don't live under the same roof. Think Kennedys again.


I know that show...I don't want to watch it though. Hurts to look at.

I'm almost positive, that if I was totally open to a polygamist lifestyle, that my H would be overjoyed. All his hiding and anxiety would fly away, and he would be dancing on cloud 9  
Aren't I the lucky one...:woohoo:


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Vegemite said:


> Somethingelse, you show a lot of courage. You have an awful decision to make. I know you say it ultimately will be your CH who decides, but at some point you will decide.
> 
> And your decision is difficult and either outcome (stay or go) just sucks. I know, I'm in the same place.
> 
> It's just so hard to accept reconsiliation, when you know what they've done & who they are. Thanks for sharing.



Thanks Vegemite  

It is very hard to be in the position we are in. But I have faith that either way this goes, I will be in good hands. I hope for you and your H that you will find peace one way or another too.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> Thanks Vegemite
> 
> It is very hard to be in the position we are in. But I have faith that either way this goes, I will be in good hands. I hope for you and your H that you will find peace one way or another too.


Thanks. 

PS: I'm a BH still with my CW.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> I'm almost positive, that if I was totally open to a polygamist lifestyle, that my H would be overjoyed.


Anytime something with polygamy comes on TV, my wife thinks it's right up my alley. She gets a kick out of goading me about it, but only because she knows I won't go back on our deal.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Vegemite said:


> Thanks.
> 
> PS: I'm a BH still with my CW.


Oops. lol sorry Vegemite


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Anytime something with polygamy comes on TV, my wife thinks it's right up my alley. She gets a kick out of goading me about it, but only because she knows I won't go back on our deal.


Would you really ever consider polygamy?? What deal have you made with your W?


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## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> I'll make this as brief as I can...
> 
> H has been a serial cheater for years now...and has now promised to stop cheating and start a-new :roll eyes: not that I trust it yet.
> 
> ...


I think he is not acting appropriately.
Not a lot of married men do such activities if they love their wives.
There again, not right to act in such a manner!
And finally, you are not paranoid, just observant!


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

** UPDATE **

Last night H was on his job site (he works away from home) and he was on break. We were having a normal conversation, he was talking about what he was having for supper (his friend was BBQing) and I said that I wanted us to succeed and he said he wanted to as well. 

So I asked if that meant he was being 100% faithful. Then it took him a while to answer.. He finally answered Yes..but after stating what he was eating again (he already told me what he was eating in the beginning). He also said he was helping bring to food in when I asked him that (in relation to the pause)...so I felt like I had to ask the same question again..

He answered with, "since I told you.. why do you drag us into these talks when we talk nice?" I told him that once he tries to drag it off topic, I suspect he is lying. He said he was doing food, so I understood that, but I don't like when he answers with anything other than a yes or no reply (because he is very manipulative with words).

I asked why he answered "since I told you". He started talking about the food again, and then said "cause that is what I know". I basically told him after that, that this is why I can't trust him..because he avoids confrontation about the subject.

Then I said that I hope it's the truth, and if it isn't I pray that I will find out the truth. He paused and then said "Amen" 

So I said "so you have been lying" another pause and he says " ? you are weird. Not what I meant at all" then "if you want to succeed then you wouldn't be doing this"

So I asked "have you been lying" Him: "I love you. Please let's be good. Time is of the essence right now"

Me: "have you been lying" Him: "No. I swear I will answer no again"
I said I don't believe him.

Then he said "at all cost you want to catch me in a lie, or get us into an argument" 
Then he continued to try to blame our fighting all on me, and how I shouldn't do that to him while he is at work (he's either going to be sleeping or working for the next 2 weeks)

Then he said another thing that struck a chord with me... "This does not mean that I am lying. It means that what's done is done. So if you want to find a lie so badly just to leave me and put me down.." ..and on he went

But the conversation was not about what he did prior to his promise he made to me. It was only whether he was being 100% faithful and honest.

So this morning we talked on the phone. I told him that if he couldn't allow me to ask him questions without him lashing out on me, then this won't work. He said that he doesn't want to talk about these things anymore, and that he has been faithful. In the end he basically told me how much of a b&*%$ I am being, and how I'm the one who doesn't want this to work or succeed. I told him in order for us to have a better R, we have to be able to talk and work through my trust issues. and I don't want to resent him. 

He still stood by what he was saying, and didn't budge. I told him he's being selfish and he doesn't want to work on this M. We ended the conversation with him hanging up.

Was I wrong? If I was, please tell me. I will eat my words and surrender.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Alpha. I seriously don't believe it is possible for a pure Alpha to be sexually exclusive to one woman. I believe in Free Will, but part of what makes an alpha male alpha is the innate inability to have sexual restraint with women who are coming on to him. Pretty much hardwired.
> 
> All the women want an Alpha. Few get one to commit. Only Rose Kennedy types will stay with one; at least in modern times. These are women who accept the pre-1850 view as to what constitutes the natural state of the male (think Biblical marriage).


"All the women" do not want what you think of as an "Alpha". You patronise any woman with an IQ higher than 100 every time you say this.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> ** UPDATE **
> 
> Last night H was on his job site (he works away from home) and he was on break. We were having a normal conversation, he was talking about what he was having for supper (his friend was BBQing) and I said that I wanted us to succeed and he said he wanted to as well.
> 
> ...


I think he is lying to you like a boss. I think he is trying to push you to the limit of what you will accept. I think this is part of how he controls you.

I am not saying he is a "bad person"; it's just how he is.

I think you accept him as a philanderer, or not at all. Some people can do that, some can't.

I am not a religious man but, for what it's worth you are in my thoughts and I hope you can make sense of whatever this relationship becomes.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

tons of deflection, not good


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Twofaces said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here is something that ive been turning over and over in my head since last week. A friend said it to me, and it was better advice, if you will, than i have gotten from counseling once a week for over a year now.
> 
> ...


That's also what my mom used to ask me years ago.. do I want to stay with someone who will always be this way.

My answer now, is no. I don't want to be with someone who has no regard for the feelings of others, and who lies and cheats constantly. 

I adore the Alpha male's ability to make me believe like he's all mine...and loves me...I love his adventurousness and smarts..but what I believe may not be what is true. And even though he seems like a catch to most women, he causes me too much pain for me to believe anything good about him anymore.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Ben Connedfussed said:


> I think he is not acting appropriately.
> Not a lot of married men do such activities if they love their wives.
> There again, not right to act in such a manner!
> And finally, you are not paranoid, just observant!


Thank you for the compliment Ben. Observant...hmm that's got a nice ring to it 

I had a strong feeling that what he does is not right..my heart tells me it's very disrespectful and I don't appreciate him doing it


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> I think he is lying to you like a boss. I think he is trying to push you to the limit of what you will accept. I think this is part of how he controls you.
> 
> I am not saying he is a "bad person"; it's just how he is.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your support Chris 

He must be lying. I don't exactly know what he is lying about though....he loves to be in control too.

My Q is though...what is it he's hiding? Could it be he's still cheating? Maybe he talked more to one of his AP's after I gave him the "ultimatum"? I'm still not sure...because he's not telling me


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> tons of deflection, not good


Yes.... tons of it


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> Thank you for your support Chris
> 
> He must be lying. I don't exactly know what he is lying about though....he loves to be in control too.
> 
> My Q is though...what is it he's hiding? Could it be he's still cheating? Maybe he talked more to one of his AP's after I gave him the "ultimatum"? I'm still not sure...because he's not telling me


It could even be that he hasn't cheated lately. The point is, you have no way of knowing and he is letting you know that.

It's nothing to do with being faithful or not, it is entirely to do with control and making you "submit" to him.

Much as I deride much of this "Alpha" pseudo science, his behaviour does seem to rather conform to the stereo type of somebody who thinks being an "Alpha" is a good thing.

This includes, control, lack of respect and is, perhaps, a branch of misogyny.

You sound caring, ready to forgive and willing to see the best side of every person's traits.

Some people, however, see this as what they think of as "weakness". I am just in the middle of figuring this is what my WW is like. Her family are certainly like that.

Imagine if you were with a man who respected you; who would not contemplate "flirting" with other women, who would always be faithful, who treated you with respect.

That, to me, is what a *real* man is. It's corny, but the poem "If" says it all to me. 

It could be that what you seek can only be found in a man like your husband and there is obviously nothing wrong with that, but perhaps you have to, like Jackie Kennedy, like Mrs Clinton and like many other women, accept that that is just "what he is like". I really don't mean that in any negative way - everything in life is a big "pros and cons" list; a large see-saw of desires balanced with that which you do not want.

Take some time out. It sounds to me as though you prefer the "If" man to the "Alpha" man, but it may be that you *want* to want that type of man.

Well, there I go again rambling but I hope you get my drift


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Just found out my H had sex with a girl just before he promised to good to me. It's a deal breaker. He lied and told me that he hasn't had sex with anyone since January.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> Oops. lol sorry Vegemite


No worries


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> Just found out my H had sex with a girl just before he promised to good to me. It's a deal breaker. He lied and told me that he hasn't had sex with anyone since January.


Oh wow!! So sorry for you.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> Just found out my H had sex with a girl just before he promised to good to me. It's a deal breaker. He lied and told me that he hasn't had sex with anyone since January.


I'm sorry.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Update:

I've been crying all day, while packing all of my stuff, so that I can leave for my parents house (8 hours away). I don't know how I'm going to sleep tonight. I feel like I'm already gone, and there's no turning back. I can't stop crying it hurts so much.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do once I get to my parents house. My whole life is going to change.

I'm so angry that my H has pushed me over the edge like this. I feel so alone.


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