# I would like some opinion's please



## lostman2021 (Apr 15, 2021)

Been with my wife for 21 years. In the beginning we thought the world of eachother, were best friends and had sex a bare minimum of daily. As the years went by she began to be less loving little by little. Making her best effort to reduce how much we have sex and not being affectionate. I miss hugs and kisses. I have repeatedly asked what the problem is and she says my desire for her is disgusting and we are too old to be acting like kids in love. We are early 40's and no kids. She does give sex but she is not really about it and has repeatly stated if we seperated she would never want to be with anyone again because she hates affection and sex. I told her she is the one who has changed and I am still how I am when we got married. I would rather not get a divorce. I am certain her stance will not change after years of trying. Cheating was never anything I believed in doing but I feel if I could get a little on the side from someone who would show affection as well I would be complete. Even though I have expressed my feelings to her she just see's me as a horny pervert anymore. She says our marriage is fine and I should wind back my desire for her and sex. She doesn't understand I am not interested in doing that.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Sit her down and flat out tell her you will be seeking sex elsewhere. If she can't give you what you need, then you have every right to go find it out there. If this means separation, well so be it.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

This is an example of a person standing at the front door knocking louder and louder. Eventually you're going to walk away and then she's going to wonder why you stopped knocking. She is hoping sooner or later your desire will fall off and she's planning to just hang on until then. Searching for whys and hows won't help so you just need to decide if you're willing to live like this for the rest of your life or not. Getting a little on the side will not help you and is the wrong path. Early 40s is very young to expect a major reduction in sex life. If you really want to avoid divorce you could try marriage counseling but I would bet it will not help given the way you describe her attitude which sounds very dismissive.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Look up gaslighting. That's exactly what she's doing to you over your sexual desire for her.

"Wife, since you clearly have no interest in a sexual relationship with me, you surely won't mind if I go out and find someone who is. But at least we can still remain married."

Now, I'm not suggesting you should cheat. However, there is absolute emotional judo in that statement. First of all, she is more than willing to accept all the benefits of the marriage to her without putting any work into why it's important to you. Second, it's a test as to whether or not your marriage is dead.

If she freaks out, there may be a sliver of hope for your marriage, because it means she is selfish enough to not want to lose you. There are ways to use that to your advantage. If she doesn't care, your marriage is dead and gone, and likely will never be recovered.

To further reinforce it, one night you should dress up and put on cologne, then tell her you're going out for the night. If she asks where, be coy. Tell her you just need some time alone.

I would not normally jump to such an extreme measure, but rather would incrementally work my way towards it. However, with her gas lighting, she needs a bucket of cold water thrown on her ****ty attitude.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> Sit her down and flat out tell her you will be seeking sex elsewhere. If she can't give you what you need, then you have every right to go find it out there. If this means separation, well so be it.


Well...

That will bring this bad zit (of a marriage) to a head.

It will move her to action.

What action remains to be seen.

She will likely say, "Get out!"

Obey this directive.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Well, it is about time no?

I was the sexual one in my first marriage. If I was denied sex for as long as he has, and with the ridiculous excuses he has been given, I would have popped that pimple before the puss became visible. 

They have no kids. He needs her, but apparently she thinks she doesn't need him. She will have a very rude awakening.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

While we can all give you advice on how to handle your situation you should realize that success stories are very rare when it comes to turning your type of situation around. At best the frequency picks up a little but enthusiasm from the partner is never had. It’s more like screwing a dead fish that died with a smile on its face.

You already said your not interested in divorce so you don’t even have one shred of leverage. She has you right where she wants you. You can keep being her wallet and roommate.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> You already said your not interested in divorce so you don’t even have one shred of leverage. She has you right where she wants you. You can keep being her wallet and roommate.


Exactly. If you’re not willing to walk away from the marriage over this if she doesn’t change (AND YOU SHOULD) then there is zero hope of anything ever changing. Just suck it up and fall deeply in love with Rosy Palm.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lostman2021 said:


> . I have repeatedly asked what the problem is and she says my desire for her is disgusting and we are too old to be acting like kids in love.
> 
> has repeatly stated if we seperated she would never want to be with anyone again because she hates affection and sex.
> 
> ...


Those are all very powerful statements and she has basically come right out and told you that she does not love you, does not desire your romantically/affectionately/sexually and does not want a sex life with you. 

Some others here will disagree and may cite bible passages and such but as far as I am concerned she has waived any rights to your sexuality and your sexual exclusivity. As far as I am concerned, you can do whatever you want whether it be to continue living as roommates and spank to porn all the time, seeking comfort elsewhere or simply having her sign and initial the appropriate lines on the divorce papers and walking away. None of it really matters because the affectionate/intimate/sexual part of your marriage is already over anyway. 

At this point it doesn't matter what you do so do whatever you wish.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

When she says she will never want sex again she actually means she never wants sex with *you* again.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

lostman2021 said:


> Cheating was never anything I believed in doing but I feel if I could get a little on the side from someone who would show affection as well I would be complete. Even though I have expressed my feelings to her she just see's me as a horny pervert anymore.


If you start getting some on the side from someone who shows you affection, it will no longer on just on the side. You will dump your wife in a millisecond...maybe rightfully so. You don't really know what's going on with her. You have to decide how willing you are to dig deeper. If you want to try to fix your marriage, there are things you can do, and you may be successful, but the likelihood of success is very low. How do you reason with someone who says that sex disgusts her?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Now, it's entirely possible that your wife has no clue that most men rank sex as a top emotional need, necessary for emotional bonding with a partner. Or, worse, she may just be a frigid witch who doesn't care that that's the case. Only you know if either of those is true. But, since you apparently aren't interested in divorcing right now over this, then maybe it's worth making sure you've cleaned up your own side of the street. 

OP, you've said you are the same as when you first married. Did you mean regarding sex and affection? Or in all ways? Is it possible that, while you're still treating your wife like you did when you were dating sexually speaking, you've gradually stopped treating her like you did when you were dating in non-sexual ways? 

Most women don't have sex as a top emotional need in a relationship. Most men do. (See _His Needs, Her Needs_ by Willard Harley if you want to know more.) Which means that most women value other relationship aspects more highly than they do sex. So, if the attitude of their male partner towards sex remains the same, but his attitude towards other things that matter more to them in the relationship slide off or stop, women's sexual interest may also deteriorate sharply. In other words, you have to keep treating your woman like your girlfriend in all ways if you expect her sexual interest in your to remain at girlfriend levels. If you start treating her like a wife/mom/caretaker/nanny then you should expect her sexual interest in you to reflect that. Your _girlfriend_ wants to shag you. A woman you essentially treat like the mean mommy to your rebellious tween self, most definitely _does not_. 

So, if you want to start somewhere other than divorce, start with evaluating what your wife valued about you in the start of your relationship. Are you still that guy? If you're not, you should fix that. It might be too late to get your wife interested in sex with you again, but being that guy will put you in a much better place to attract another partner at some point in the future. 

Oh, and by the way, if you have no intention of ever divorcing your wife over the lack of sex, then you will most likely remain in a sexless marriage. You have to be willing to work with your wife on improving the relationship if there are deficits there - but also be entirely willing to risk the relationship if nothing improves within a reasonable time frame - if you ever hope to really fix this situation.


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## lostman2021 (Apr 15, 2021)

I should point out that she does have sex but she is not into it even when I get her off. Its less frequent too. I find her sexy and would prefer her but the genuine lack of affection hurts. I am open to divorce if needed. She says sex can be painful but not willing to do ask her Dr. about it. I honestly haven't changed how I am. I still act to her like I did when we began and she hates it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If the marriage is no longer working, divorce. It's not right to start another relationship. It sounds like you wanted such frequent sex that she just got bored and tired of taking care of your needs and is over it completely now. The old saying, all things in moderation. People burn out, people get bored, people start to think all you care about are your own sexual needs and nothing else, which builds resentment, and they are very often correct. 

That said, there's no reason to stay married if what you want is sex and not a family life. Sex is only about 10 percent of a marriage and family. You have no kids, so just leave, don't remarry, and live the single life so you can move on once someone no longer has romantic feelings for you.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lostman2021 said:


> She says our marriage is fine and I should wind back my desire for her and sex. She doesn't understand I am not interested in doing that.


Two things here -

-The first is that she DOES understand fully well, she simply does not want to has no repercussion for not doing it. 

-The other is she is getting what she wants from the marriage which is presumably money, resources and provisioning. And probably some household chores she doesn't want to do like mowing the lawn, cleaning the garage, unclogging the toilets, changing flat tires etc. 

You are basically being used as an ATM and work horse here and you are allowing it. 

Stop giving her money and provisioning and stop doing her errands and she would likely be glad to sign the divorce papers. 

And you are likely codependent here and are keeping her around because you don't think you can do any better and you likely fear being alone. 

Are you morbidly obese? Are you unemployed? Are you on the Autism spectrum or otherwise lack basic social skills?

If yes, work on those issues and become a functional adult male. Unless you were planning on paying prostitutes for sex, you would need to be reasonably fit and healthy, well dressed and groomed and have a liveable income and basic social and interpersonal skills anyway in order to get a side piece......... and it is a whole lot easier for an average 40 year old man to date on the open single market than get any kind of ongoing side piece. 

so basically what I am saying is you are going to have to do the work and fix yourself whether you opt to leave and try to find someone else or try to get something on the side. 

Or you can sit in the dark and spank to porn and watch the attractive and sexual people have sex.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lostman2021 said:


> She says sex can be painful but not willing to do ask her Dr. about it. I honestly haven't changed how I am. I still act to her like I did when we began and she hates it.


OK let's be reasonable here. Let's say I come over to your house and I want to shove a big ol' dildo up your butt dry. You say it hurts and causes you pain and that you do not have any affection or sexual feelings for me. 

But I say that I am gay and have always liked shoving dildos up people's butts dry and that I think you should see a doctor about your pain. 

Do you see the disconnect here??????

If someone you are not attracted to and may not even like is shoving things into you that hurt and your response is that they should see a doctor (which she should for her own sake to make sure there isn't some kind of disease or problem) but that you are going to continue as you always have without trying to make any kind of concessions or accommidations, that pretty much makes you a jerk. 

What may very well have taken place here is she has developed an actual sexual aversion and hates the thought of sex with you because you have been completely disregarding and insensitive to her pain and discomfort. 

With intensive professional marital counseling and sex therapy along with medical treatment for her pain, you MIGHT be able to turn this around.....maybe. 

But there is a point of no return when it comes to pain and sex aversion and she may never be able to feel desire or trust with you again.


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## lostman2021 (Apr 15, 2021)

Wow, thanks. Can tell that came from a woman. She had admitted she over exarorates the pain to get me to not pursue her as well.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Has she brought up the subject of divorce or separating at all?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

lostman2021 said:


> Wow, thanks. Can tell that came from a woman. She had admitted she over exarorates the pain to get me to not pursue her as well.


You will not agree with the advice or opinions of everyone here. Just take what you need and toss the rest. I get what you need. The majority of us here do even if our approaches differ. You want change because you need the sex, love, and attention from your other half. That is normal. You are not asking for unreasonable needs. If she can't fulfill them, then you need to take over and decide what you can and cannot live without. Only you can control YOU. You can't control or change her, but she won't change if you don't play your cards right and just take the scraps she throws out. That is not a balanced marriage. It takes two to make a marriage work and only ONE to break it!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

lostman2021 said:


> Wow, thanks. Can tell that came from a woman. She had admitted she over exarorates the pain to get me to not pursue her as well.


The women on this forum are pretty in tune with what makes relationships work. You are not going to find them man bashing for the most part.....on the other hand it’s pretty easy to find guys bashing women....so keep that in mind.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> When she says she will never want sex again she actually means she never wants sex with *you* again.


That is obvious.

I suspect this feeling will be carried over to any new relationship.

Unless, she too is close to her own rosy fingers.

I sincerely doubt this. Sex has already been described as disgusting. 

Any new man will get the same treatment once she places the ring on.

On her finger, and in the new man's nose.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lostman2021 said:


> Wow, thanks. Can tell that came from a woman. She had admitted she over exarorates the pain to get me to not pursue her as well.


If you are referring to my post - I am a dude. 

And whether she exaggerates the pain or not is irrelevant, it's that there is pain AT ALL. 

Why would you think someone should be ok doing something that causes them pain?


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

lostman2021 said:


> I should point out that she does have sex but she is not into it even when I get her off. Its less frequent too. I find her sexy and would prefer her but the genuine lack of affection hurts. I am open to divorce if needed. She says sex can be painful but not willing to do ask her Dr. about it. I honestly haven't changed how I am. I still act to her like I did when we began and she hates it.


There are countless stories on here just like yours, read them. It is a very rare occasion that the spouse who has no interest in sex changes, very very rare. It is always the spouse who is interested in sex who forces themselves into a state of acceptance to avoid divorce. Many times the divorce comes anyway. Many times they come to realize years later they cannot live with it even though they at one point convinced themselves they could. 

It is very likely your wife thinks there is no way you will divorce because she still occasionally spreads her legs for you so you should be happy for that. It's not a matter of blame or fault, it's a matter of compatibility. You are no longer compatible and it sounds like you haven't been for quite some time. 

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned the 180 to you before. But there is plenty of info on this site and someone can probably provide a link for you to read up on. It is something you should consider to help you get to a mental place to make a well thought out, clear headed decision on how to proceed.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> That is obvious.
> 
> I suspect this feeling will be carried over to any new relationship.
> 
> ...


I disagree. While there are some people that truly do not like sex at all regardless of who it is with (I think at last count there were twelve) In the vast, vast majority of cases, the issue is with the other person in question or the dynamics of their relationship. 

With someone else, she may be having wild monkey sex swinging from the chandeliers.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I disagree. While there are some people that truly do not like sex at all regardless of who it is with (I think at last count there were twelve) In the vast, vast majority of cases, the issue is with the other person in question or the dynamics of their relationship.
> 
> With someone else, she may be having wild monkey sex swinging from the chandeliers.


Yours, would certainly be the preferred truth.

If she is self-pleasuring, that would lead me to your take on her.

I bet she is not, and that she has no interest in sex.

She has eaten of the bitter fruit and found it to her liking.

That said, people can change.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> With someone else, she may be having wild monkey sex swinging from the chandeliers.


I'll point out for the OP that NRE is not sustainable. 

Even on other forums where folks discuss open relationships, people get tired of a spouse and have wild monkey sex with someone new. Eventually they grow tired of the different person and sex winds down to nothing. Rinse, wash, and repeat again with someone _else_ new.

My point being is that someone else will eventually join the OP's boat in that she will not want sex with either of them.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> To further reinforce it, one night you should dress up and put on cologne, then tell her you're going out for the night. If she asks where, be coy. Tell her you just need some time alone.


!! Spot on advice!


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

lostman2021 said:


> Wow, thanks. Can tell that came from a woman. She had admitted she over exarorates the pain to get me to not pursue her as well.


Not sure who you are wowing. But Oldshirt is a man. And pretty man oriented.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Anastasia6 said:


> But Oldshirt is a man. And pretty man oriented.


Ummmm, maybe you should qualify that. That can be interpreted and misinterpreted a number of different ways. 

Maybe I opened myself up for that with the dildo analogy LOL


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Ummmm, maybe you should qualify that. That can be interpreted and misinterpreted a number of different ways.
> 
> Maybe I opened myself up for that with the dildo analogy LOL


I simply meant you would take a more favorable opinion for a man. If a woman and a man were arguing chances are you'd agree with the man.

I think your observation about sex aversion is spot on. The issue of pain should have been dealt with when it first came up not avoided and continue to have sex with a partner that maybe in pain. Then you really are saying I don't care about you except for sex right? That doesn't lead to long term good feelings about the relationship or sex.

It is completely possible she isn't in pain and using that as an excuse but then approaching this conversation from a position of I care about you and let's get your health in order is a more loving approach then I need sex lay down and take it. Oh gee you aren't excited and begging me to screw you in pain?

Of course what is the opposite is true. She still wants sex but tries to tone you down due to pain. Chances are it isn't that but... Doesn't seem like you really know.

OP have you ever had 'the talk' with her. Where you tell her you need sex and you expect some from your spouse. 

I'm not suggesting that now but I'm wondering it seems like maybe you have.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> Yours, would certainly be the preferred truth.
> 
> If she is self-pleasuring, that would lead me to your take on her.
> 
> ...


You are thinking like a man. 

Female sexuality is different than male sexuality. 

The longer a man goes without sex, the hornier and more assertive and initiative he can get. 

For many women, their sexuality can go dormant and they lose all interest and initiative. Sometimes for years and they will say (especially to their partners that they do not like) that they have no interest and no desire for anyone. 

But that can change in an instant if someone else comes along that flips on the right switches and their sexuality can flare up and rage out of control like a wildfire. 

I personally know a gal that hadn't had any kind of sexual activity for about a half dozen years and went into menopause and hadn't had a menstrual period in a couple years. No masturbation, no anything. 

Then started getting with a guy and not only did her libido come roaring back with a vengeance but her physiology rebooted and she started having monthly periods again. 

She went to her gyne and she said that does happen from time to time. 

So for women, they can go sexually dormant for periods of time and then have a whole system reboot if someone else comes along that activates the right circuits and flips the right switches.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

badsanta said:


> I'll point out for the OP that NRE is not sustainable.
> 
> Even on other forums where folks discuss open relationships, people get tired of a spouse and have wild monkey sex with someone new. Eventually they grow tired of the different person and sex winds down to nothing. Rinse, wash, and repeat again with someone _else_ new.
> 
> My point being is that someone else will eventually join the OP's boat in that she will not want sex with either of them.


NRE with it's wild monkey sex from the chandeliers may not be sustainable forever. 

But a dead bedroom and dead marriage CAN be forever. And from what she is saying, it sounds like her intent and purpose is to not have a sexlife with him and to have a sexless marriage forever. 

But an important distinction to make here is that even if the wild monkey sex and swinging from the chandeliers of NRE settles down a few years down the road, if it is with someone more compatible, one could have a continuing sex life even if the chandeliers are no longer a part of it. 

And even if one does enter into a Rinse and Repeat cycle over the years, Wouldn't that still be better than remaining in a dead relationship where it is known that the romantic/sexual component is over for good?

Let me put that this way, there is no guarantee that he will have a good sex life forever with someone else. 

But he IS guaranteed of no sex life if he remains with her. 

If he moves on, he at least has a chance. If he stays, he knows he doesn't have a chance. 

Now for some people, remaining in a bad situation that they are familiar with is more acceptable to them than taking a chance with an unfamiliar situation. Only he can decide that.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Don’t cheat, just tell her you’re going to leave if she is checked out sexually. Unless you’re not in which case you can open it up or remain celibate.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I'd come up with a reasonable expectation. Let's pretend that is 2x/week. Tell her you need this badly, and it's a big part of your connection to her. Then, if she obliges and you otherwise have a good marriage, then you can perhaps continue this way until your drive subsides. 

If she doesn't hold up her end of that compromise, then tell her you need to find sex outside of the marriage. Then it's her choice if she wants to accept that as part of your marriage or divorce.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

5 basic options here -

- accept that she is no longer attracted to you sexually and no longer wants a sex life with you so you spank to porn all the time until you die.

-leave.

- open marriage (in which she would easily find others, you not so much. not a slam, just a basic difference between the boys and the girls.)

-get a side piece.

-see if she will do marital counseling/therapy and see if that has any impact. 

Each option has it's own pros and cons. 

From what she said in regards to sex with you, I don't think it really matters what you do so do whatever you want and whatever you think will work best for you.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Obligatory book plug. Written for guys in your shoes: *The Dead Bedroom Fix.*


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## Girlonfire (Apr 7, 2021)

The other posters are right. You should straighten yourself out and then leave. If you are codependent on her, just stop. You will never get it from her. She’s not in the marriage anymore for love and sex. I doubt therapy will work because when a woman isn’t attracted, that’s it. Nothing works.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

lostman2021 said:


> Been with my wife for 21 years. In the beginning we thought the world of eachother, were best friends and had sex a bare minimum of daily. As the years went by she began to be less loving little by little. Making her best effort to reduce how much we have sex and not being affectionate. I miss hugs and kisses. I have repeatedly asked what the problem is and she says my desire for her is disgusting and we are too old to be acting like kids in love. We are early 40's and no kids. She does give sex but she is not really about it and has repeatly stated if we seperated she would never want to be with anyone again because she hates affection and sex. I told her she is the one who has changed and I am still how I am when we got married. I would rather not get a divorce. I am certain her stance will not change after years of trying. Cheating was never anything I believed in doing but I feel if I could get a little on the side from someone who would show affection as well I would be complete. Even though I have expressed my feelings to her she just see's me as a horny pervert anymore. She says our marriage is fine and I should wind back my desire for her and sex. She doesn't understand I am not interested in doing that.


Do not cheat. Now by that, I mean don't go behind her back. Either it needs to be part of an ENM agreement or you leave. What is the rest of the marriage like? If the rest is good, is she telling you that you are not allowed sex from outside the marriage? Some spouses who have lost interest in sex, or has pain problems where they don't want it have told their SO's to go seeking sex outside the marriage. So it's not unheard of. But don't even bother if there are other problems. She may say your marriage is fine, but just from what you wrote, I am somehow doubting that. So ending it now is actually my advice over any kind of ENM.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

maquiscat said:


> Some spouses who have lost interest in sex, or has pain problems where they don't want it have told their SO's to go seeking sex outside the marriage. So it's not unheard of. But don't even bother if there are other problems. She may say your marriage is fine, but just from what you wrote, I am somehow doubting that.


For most people, it is pretty much an Extinction Level Event for one partner to tell the other to get it elsewhere. 

On one hand for someone to do that, it means they are so disgusted and disconnected with them, that they simply want them out of the their airspace. 

And on the other hand, it is often a form of disrespect and dismissal and even kind of a "#&^! you" challenge because because most women know their husbands aren't going to be able to just go out and get a side piece with a hallpass anyway. For most women who tell their H's to get it elsewhere, it's just a slam and a dig and a form of humiliation because they are 99.9% sure they won't do it and likely wouldn't even be able to do it so it is just a humiliation maneuver. 

And there is also a real risk that if he did happen to be able to get something that she would use that against him to where there really wasn't much advantage of ENM vs cheating. 

It may be a bit more ethical, but for all practical purposes in the big scheme of things, it doesn't matter all that much either way. 

With ENM, he would just be zipping up his pants after being with someone that likes him to go home to someone that has made it clear that she doesn't like him and just wants him for his money to help pay rent and to clean the garage and unclog toilets. 

Whether he cheats or whether he gets a hallpass and finds a needle in a haystack, it's probably just a ticking time bomb on the marriage anyway. When someone has made it clear to you that they don't want to be with you, once you find someone that does want to be with you, it's just a matter of days, weeks or months until you are packing up your stuff anyway. 

The people that have long term ENM relationships usually have good relationships and good sex lives and good communication to begin with. 

And the people that have long term affairs usually have BS's that are still invested, still having sex and still have a relatively functional relationship at home - the WS is just being a selfish cheater. 

When someone has declared an end of intimacy like this and outright said they don't want a sex life - the clock on the marriage has already started counting down. 

It truly doesn't matter what he does. 

There's no true advantage. It's just verbal judo and mental gymnastics.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I must say that I find it hard to accept a term like ethical non monogamy in a marriage - it is opposed to the very meaning of marriage. But that's just me.


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## lostman2021 (Apr 15, 2021)

I want to give a little update. I took my wife to dinner and told her I really am at a brealing point if she can't start showing affection to me. It's not just about sex. We had connected well in the beginning with lots of hugs and kissing so I miss that connection. She told me I am not as nice to her as I used to be. I told her we both need to work on our issues and hopefully we can make things a little better. I can't tell if we will resolve things or last forever but I am willing to try. We been together 21 years and I still find her attractive.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Did you scratch beneath the surface to understand her perspective of how you are 'not as nice to her as you used to be'?

This might be pointy of me and could be just the way it's communicated here in type but you wrote 'I told her we both need to work on our issues...' You TOLD her. Did you ask her if she's willing to do so? Is she agreeable to this?


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## lostman2021 (Apr 15, 2021)

I knew that I was a little moody at times with her mainly because of the lack of affection from her. I am willing to admit I haven't been perfect. I'll admit it before she ever would. After all she is a woman so it seems to always be all my fault and none hers in her eyes. She said if I was nicer she would consider what I said, maybe.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

The point of me asking this, is that both need to be active and willing participants for any type of change/resolution to occur. I wouldn't want you to go down a path of thinking she is onboard with making changes because you stated to her that you both need to, and then it really just ends up you putting in some work and likely jumping through hoops and turning yourself unnecessarily into a pretzel. She needs to be as invested as you for any type of glimmer of change.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

lostman2021 said:


> After all she is a woman so it seems to always be all my fault and none hers in her eyes.


Eep. Your generalization caused me to bristle. 

Although, if she is not taking any accountability for her part in the dynamic (assuming you have a typical relationship without anger/abuse and such) then you can't navigate that solo. Well, you can.. but from my view it would be wasted energy.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

lostman2021 said:


> I should point out that she does have sex but she is not into it even when I get her off. Its less frequent too. I find her sexy and would prefer her but the genuine lack of affection hurts. I am open to divorce if needed. She says sex can be painful but not willing to do ask her Dr. about it. I honestly haven't changed how I am. I still act to her like I did when we began and she hates it.



I can't begin to understand or comprehend what this must be like...To know someone has zero desire and claims to be in pain to have any sex, yet people do it anyway....I know I have heard about the stories of "marital duty" but I dunno...Just seems like the most dreadful type of event, I can't for the life of me see how this would be a better option than just beating yourself off...I think I'd rather walk down 5th avenue buck naked on Christmas Eve, than attempt this...but that's me...

What direction it goes from here is no where but down, IMO....These situations, as others have stated have almost no chance of improving...

Unless you have very convoluted financial circumstances, divorces that don't involve children are often a breeze...A friend of mine recently divorced(no kids) and did it with an online legal service for under 300 bucks.. A month and it was over and a few months after that he is with a new woman and seems very happy...


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

lostman2021 said:


> I knew that I was a little moody at times with her mainly because of the lack of affection from her. I am willing to admit I haven't been perfect. I'll admit it before she ever would. After all she is a woman so it seems to always be all my fault and none hers in her eyes. *She said if I was nicer she would consider what I said, maybe.*


My parents used this same BS(bolded), when I badgered them to get a mini bike when I was a kid...

I never got the bike until much later, when I had the money and did what I wanted with it....

I doubt she is serious about this statement....It's a stall tactic or a way to blow you off or make you feel somewhat guilty or that it's somehow all your fault...


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

lostman2021 said:


> I knew that I was a little moody at times with her mainly because of the lack of affection from her. I am willing to admit I haven't been perfect. I'll admit it before she ever would. *After all she is a woman so it seems to always be all my fault and none hers in her eyes.* She said if I was nicer she would consider what I said, maybe.


Yeah, that's not because she's "a woman". It's because _she_ is who _she is_. That's a problem with her. Women are not some great hive mind, and there are plenty of them out there who are entirely capable of taking responsibility for themselves, and willing to do so. 

Did your views that "all women XYZ" precede your marriage, or is this just your resentment of your wife emerging? If it's your resentment of your wife, then that's a relationship problem that you're going to need to understand is a _my wife does_ issue rather than _an all women do_ issue. If you've always had these negative ideas about how women are, then I think you'll find a fair number of women will be turned off by that. Because you don't think much of women as a whole and don't really like them as people.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

lostman2021 said:


> I knew that I was a little moody at times with her mainly because of the lack of affection from her. I am willing to admit I haven't been perfect. I'll admit it before she ever would. After all she is a woman so it seems to always be all my fault and none hers in her eyes. She said if I was nicer she would consider what I said, maybe.


Your dilemma is very common. You're moody because your wife is not showing you affection. Now, she doesn't feel affectionate toward you because you're moody all the time. It's a downward spiral. If you want to try to fix it, you have to learn to project yourself as you want to be received. Give it a good while to give her the opportunity to notice. You really should see a marriage counselor (individual counseling at first) to get a realistic profile of who you are.

It's not exactly related, but I remember the story of a woman who lost interest in having sex with her husband. Everything else seemed okay in the marriage. He was a blue-collar worker. What he finally discovered was that his hygiene was not where it should be, and she was repulsed by it. She never bothered to tell him for fear of hurting his feelings. Their problem was easy to solve. Yours will take more work, but if she's telling you the truth, it seems like you have a shot at it.


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## lostman2021 (Apr 15, 2021)

I get what you saying about my percieved view of women is. I would have say that is because I spend all day at work with a woman who one of the most backstabbing and lying people I have ever met and then come home to my wife who isn't rhat warm to me. The one at work is a real doosy. She will be all nice to someone's face and then talk crazy crap about them amd try to het them in trouble when they aren't looking. Betwern the two of them its easy to forget there might be somw better ones around.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

lostman2021 said:


> I get what you saying about my percieved view of women is. I would have say that is because I spend all day at work with a woman who one of the most backstabbing and lying people I have ever met and then come home to my wife who isn't rhat warm to me. The one at work is a real doosy. She will be all nice to someone's face and then talk crazy crap about them amd try to het them in trouble when they aren't looking. Betwern the two of them its easy to forget there might be somw better ones around.


Yeah, having to deal with two not-great women in your life can be draining. But imagining that their issues translate to all women is a trap I think you'd do well to steer clear of. 

My first husband was a lying serial cheater who was routinely emotionally abusive. But it's much more mature, healthier, and leads to more happiness for me to understand that that's not a "because he's a man and they're all like that" problem. It's a "that's him and he's an asshat" problem. Clinging to the first concept would leave me bitter, angry, and self-sabotaging in future relationships. Understanding the latter idea freed me to find a great future partner - one with none of the red-flags I was too young, inexperienced, and ignorant to see in my ex-husband for far too long. 

By the way, emotionally healthy women won't want to have sex with a man they can tell either doesn't like women or doesn't like them. If you don't like your wife, it's no wonder she doesn't want to have sex with you. Maybe you have very good reason not to like her. _But_, if you carry that dislike forward into the future, quality women will be able to spot it and it will make you a much less desirable partner (at least in the long-term) to them. You'll create a self-fulfilling cycle of "women suck, quality women don't want me, women _really_ suck, quality women _really _don't want me....." Resentment and bitterness are the opposite of sexy.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

lostman2021 said:


> Been with my wife for 21 years. In the beginning we thought the world of eachother, were best friends and had sex a bare minimum of daily. As the years went by she began to be less loving little by little. Making her best effort to reduce how much we have sex and not being affectionate. I miss hugs and kisses. I have repeatedly asked what the problem is and she says my desire for her is disgusting and we are too old to be acting like kids in love. We are early 40's and no kids. She does give sex but she is not really about it and has repeatly stated if we seperated she would never want to be with anyone again because she hates affection and sex. I told her she is the one who has changed and I am still how I am when we got married. I would rather not get a divorce. I am certain her stance will not change after years of trying. Cheating was never anything I believed in doing but I feel if I could get a little on the side from someone who would show affection as well I would be complete. Even though I have expressed my feelings to her she just see's me as a horny pervert anymore. She says our marriage is fine and I should wind back my desire for her and sex. She doesn't understand I am not interested in doing that.


Something is very wrong. Could be that you have treated her so bad she has lost any respect and desire for you, could be she is cheating or cheated and has given herself to another man so now being with you will be cheating. Could be medical and she doesn't want to deal with it, or it could be some sort of sexual situation she never dealt with, such as sexual abuse. I would ask her about this (gently when it comes to the abuse part) but I would do it under the guise of your marriage in it's current configuration is unsustainable. You are 40 years old there is a lot of life left and a lot out there for you.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


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## lostman2021 (Apr 15, 2021)

Well, like I said I am going to work my attitude towards her and see if she is willing to inprove on her end. I do love her and she says she loves me. We have been together for over half of our lives at this point. We have a nice home that would have to get sold and each buy a cheaper house if we split. Maybe with some effort things will improve. We'll see.


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## lostman2021 (Apr 15, 2021)

For those saying she been getting elsewhere I have doubts about that given our work schedules being so close she would have very little time to pull that off. Its not like we have large periods of time apart other than when we are actually at work. I flat out asjed if she has cheated and said no that she never has. Everyone knows that its possible but I just doubt it. She doesn't ever doll herself up at all. To me that would be a good indicator.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

if i read you correctly she has basically thrown the ball back in your court...you need to be nice to her and what does she have to do? try? try what....it's a two way street...basically if you have to do all the hard work and she gets to sit back and wait and assess what you are doing is good enough than you have to ask is it really worth it?


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

This forum is filled with guys who have tried to nice their way to more sex. So far its never worked. Work on yourself and become a better version of yourself. Not for her, for you.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

This marriage has reached its sell by date... early 40s? No kids? Get out and get yourself a nice girlfriend. Someone who actually loves you and doesn't give you ********.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

lostman2021 said:


> I knew that I was a little moody at times with her mainly because of the lack of affection from her.


This has happened to me: you get a bit moody and your wife takes offence, but doesn't do anything to fix it, because you shouldn't be moody. So, you get even more moody until you get pity sex. And the cycle repeats itself. Then you decide not to be moody anymore and do your own thing, waiting for your wife to miraculously have _the vision_... which never happens.


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## Straightadvice (Apr 17, 2021)

gr8ful1 said:


> Exactly. If you’re not willing to walk away from the marriage over this if she doesn’t change (AND YOU SHOULD) then there is zero hope of anything ever changing. Just suck it up and fall deeply in love with Rosy Palm.


No. Bad advice- this plays straight into the sexless *****'s plan. Cheat on her first .. that'll feel really good. Then, before she concedes to the once in a few years sex and gets pregnant and it really gets complicated ... get out.


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## anythingbutordinary (Sep 30, 2020)

lostman2021 said:


> Been with my wife for 21 years. In the beginning we thought the world of eachother, were best friends and had sex a bare minimum of daily. As the years went by she began to be less loving little by little. Making her best effort to reduce how much we have sex and not being affectionate. I miss hugs and kisses. I have repeatedly asked what the problem is and she says my desire for her is disgusting and we are too old to be acting like kids in love. We are early 40's and no kids. She does give sex but she is not really about it and has repeatly stated if we seperated she would never want to be with anyone again because she hates affection and sex. I told her she is the one who has changed and I am still how I am when we got married. I would rather not get a divorce. I am certain her stance will not change after years of trying. Cheating was never anything I believed in doing but I feel if I could get a little on the side from someone who would show affection as well I would be complete. Even though I have expressed my feelings to her she just see's me as a horny pervert anymore. She says our marriage is fine and I should wind back my desire for her and sex. She doesn't understand I am not interested in doing that.


I would try to find out what changed if things used to be different. Did something happen with her? Maybe something to effect her confidence, other life things going on that take away from her interest in it? 

My husband is the one not really interested in me and as much as it sucks, I don't think cheating is the answer. I feel like if you're not happy and want something else, end it and move on. Maybe if your wife knew you have thoughts of cheating, she would open up about what the problem is. 

Just my two cents. 🤷‍♀️


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So she wants no affection and doesn’t want to give any affection. Pretty simple. Bye.

it all boils down to what your beliefs are. Do you believe you have one life to live and that it’s finite? Then live it well. Having someone to give and receive affection is kinda important to a full life. You’ve been loyal. She doesn’t care for you anymore. Divorce her and find another.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

lostman2021 said:


> Been with my wife for 21 years. In the beginning we thought the world of eachother, were best friends and had sex a bare minimum of daily. As the years went by she began to be less loving little by little. Making her best effort to reduce how much we have sex and not being affectionate. I miss hugs and kisses. I have repeatedly asked what the problem is and she says my desire for her is disgusting and we are too old to be acting like kids in love. We are early 40's and no kids. She does give sex but she is not really about it and has repeatly stated if we seperated she would never want to be with anyone again because she hates affection and sex. I told her she is the one who has changed and I am still how I am when we got married. I would rather not get a divorce. I am certain her stance will not change after years of trying. Cheating was never anything I believed in doing but I feel if I could get a little on the side from someone who would show affection as well I would be complete. Even though I have expressed my feelings to her she just see's me as a horny pervert anymore. She says our marriage is fine and I should wind back my desire for her and sex. She doesn't understand I am not interested in doing that.


My wife and i have increased sex to almost daily. She is 52 im 49. She needs to get hormones checked. Most likely going through the change. Does she want to remain the loving wife or not...that is the question. She will fix it or you know how little she now cares for you.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

lostman2021 said:


> I should point out that she does have sex but she is not into it even when I get her off. Its less frequent too. I find her sexy and would prefer her but the genuine lack of affection hurts. I am open to divorce if needed. She says sex can be painful but not willing to do ask her Dr. about it. I honestly haven't changed how I am. I still act to her like I did when we began and she hates it.


Wonder if it makes her feel guilty as she may have someone on the side or on-line.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> OK let's be reasonable here. Let's say I come over to your house and I want to shove a big ol' dildo up your butt dry. You say it hurts and causes you pain and that you do not have any affection or sexual feelings for me.
> 
> But I say that I am gay and have always liked shoving dildos up people's butts dry and that I think you should see a doctor about your pain.
> 
> ...


All this just reinforces her hormones are whacked! Or she just does not love him any longer. Refusing to go to Dr. to fix an issue is saying you should accept how u treat you now because i should not have to be bothered with your needs enough to make a freaking Dr appt.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

lostman2021 said:


> Wow, thanks. Can tell that came from a woman. She had admitted she over exarorates the pain to get me to not pursue her as well.


Sounds like hormones diminishing or she does not want you any longer. She gets on HRT and starts jumping you bones again, you know it was hormones. She refuses to address it or does and nothing changes, you know she just no longer wants you.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Mr.Married said:


> The women on this forum are pretty in tune with what makes relationships work. You are not going to find them man bashing for the most part.....on the other hand it’s pretty easy to find guys bashing women....so keep that in mind.


Except 1 in particular. I think she loathes the Y chromosome.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

lostman2021 said:


> I get what you saying about my percieved view of women is. I would have say that is because I spend all day at work with a woman who one of the most backstabbing and lying people I have ever met and then come home to my wife who isn't rhat warm to me. The one at work is a real doosy. She will be all nice to someone's face and then talk crazy crap about them amd try to het them in trouble when they aren't looking. Betwern the two of them its easy to forget there might be somw better ones around.


Mu wife hates working with women. She said she would rather work with a bunch of grimey sweaty stinking men than an office with women. She very much has a male thought process when it comes to getting work done and cut the gossipping and women backstabbing BS in the workplace.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

The part about her not liking affection probably has more meaning than the not liking sex part. That sounds personal. Of course, if she is in pain every time you have sex then it becomes more clear.


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