# What to think?



## harperlee76 (Mar 4, 2021)

About 12 years ago, my husband said that he was not happy. He felt that I was no longer in love with him, didn't want to spend quality time together and that the marriage was just not a priority. I was surprised and knew I wasn't perfect but he wasn't either. I acknowledge some of what he said and tried to change. I am more of a homebody but we went out more each month, went on some great vacations (instead of just family vacations) and I thought things were pretty good.  About a year ago, I noticed that he was just not interested in physical intimacy much at all, which was a big drop off. I stepped it up and even though I am not much of a drinker, initiated contact and went drinking and had some (I thought) pretty fun times. Still, weeks would go by and sometimes months. This continued until I initiated a conversation where he told me that he was still resentful from the way I was all those years ago. He felt that I just didn't change that much and things were more or less the same. He just wasn't happy and couldn't get over things. I was shocked quite honestly. Things had been going well or so I thought. I said well I still love you and am in love with you. He said flatly that he didn't believe me. When I asked him how he felt he hemmed and hawed and finally said he didn't know. Well then. I said what is his end game? Stay in a sexless marriage or what? We both agreed that living as roomates won't work. I am leaving him alone now. He is going to see a therapist to try to figure out some answers. In the meantime, I feel like I am waiting in the wings. I am sad, mad, resentful, hurt, bewildered. The thought of being alone is pretty daunting and he agrees. Anyone every experience something like this?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

It sounds exactly like the "walkaway wife syndrome" but with the sexes reversed.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

well I'm glad you're getting into therapy with him because he could just be projecting all that and the problem could be within him. Surely he didn't expect to be fawned over like a new baby the whole marriage.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Livvie said:


> It sounds exactly like the "walkaway wife syndrome" but with the sexes reversed.


Ah, that walk-away strife, syndrome.

When enough is enough, now it is freedom, that I need.

There comes that point were even 'a little more' is too much.

The old wounds never healed properly.
Those old resentments festered and never went away.

What's more.....get this.

Some on this Earth are fated to have other lives, with other people.
Both of you delayed this inevitable outcome.

An outcome, meant to be.

A seven year itch, never to be quelled.

Forever itching, never letting up.

It is his fate that needs to be met.

His fate therefore, will become, later, yours.

His big change becomes your pocket change.

We are not our own masters.

Nope.

Sorry for your situation.

Change is painful, it can be unfair, and often is, to one partner, not always both.



_King Brian-_


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I’ll keep it short...... your not the problem. It’s obvious nothing you do will be good enough. Do yourself a favor and drop him first.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> I’ll keep it short...... your not the problem. It’s obvious nothing you do will be good enough. Do yourself a favor and drop him first.


When I read comments about spouses making open-ended demands like that (e.g. "I don't feel like you love me enough") and uses their feelings as facts, I assume the same thing: nothing will ever be good enough for them. 

Also, my gut tells me there's something else going on with that spouse... like they have abandonment issues, control issues, or some other personality issue, and they don't know what they want or how to be happy. they just constantly NEED things, like a bottomless pit.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

TomNebraska said:


> When I read comments about spouses making open-ended demands like that (e.g. "I don't feel like you love me enough") and uses their feelings as facts, I assume the same thing: nothing will ever be good enough for them.
> 
> Also, my gut tells me there's something else going on with that spouse... like they have abandonment issues, control issues, or some other personality issue, and they don't know what they want or how to be happy. they just constantly NEED things, like a bottomless pit.


I think it boils down to resentment that he will never let go of. You can’t change the past but she looks to be trying pretty dang hard. If he can’t get over it...that’s his problem. Besides he never gave her a heads up that she was slacking. He should have spoke up much earlier.


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## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm a bit perplexed. What exactly (if I can ask) can't he get over? I have a lot of friends who describe times in their marriages as you have and they're just fine - ups and downs, etc. As mentioned above, his charges sound vague and based on emotions. Have you talked about specifics? It sounds to me like he is the one with issues and may be simply projecting. If you are working on whatever faults you or he thinks you have, you'd expect to see things going in a positive direction at least incrementally. 

A sexless marriage is a big, big deal. I'd start demanding he be specific. What are the issues and why exactly doesn't he believe you.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The past is that storm cloud that either lurks on the horizon, or rains on on you, every other week, or so..

So sad.

Humans, like elephants were given memories for protection. To remind them of bad outcomes from bad situations.
Maybe from people who harmed them.

These cold and hard memories, like those owned by elephants, never seem to be forgotten. They stubbornly will not subside, step aside, melt in warm sunlight.


Hurt me once, twice, thrice, I will never trust you.
Never stretches to forever, the last time i looked.

Those having fixed signs in their making are like this.
Their memories are fixed, for good, or badly.

Some people roll with the punches, others cannot.
They take to heart every blow.
They retain the bruises for life, never healing.
They seem, not able.

Such these bulls, these lions, these scorpions, even water bearers.

Maybe OP's husband has that fixed mindset.

There can be no forgiving.

These people cannot fly, as they swallowed yesterdays leaden thoughts.

I do need to mention those crabs. Many climb inside those shells for protection, so thin is their living skin.


_King Brian-_


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Sooo....have you given any thought at all to the possibility that he's seeing someone else? Or, perhaps, even just has someone else in mind? Maybe an emotional affair if not a physical one?

Being distant, looking for ways to find fault with you and the relationship, giving you reasons he's unhappy that are so vague or so far in the past that you can't possibly do anything about them, suddenly deciding he's never really been happy or that the marriage has been bad for a long long time, not wanting sex with you? While not necessarily proof of an affair of any type, those are all things you may notice when your partner is stepping out. 

DO NOT ask him if he's cheating or of there's someone else. Even if there is another woman, he'll just lie and say there isn't and double down on blaming you for the problems in the marriage. And if he's not cheating, he'll just be offended and hurt that you asked. Instead, quietly snoop around a bit. Check the phone bills for recurring numbers you don't recognize, maybe look through his texts and emails, see if he has unaccounted for time or financial expenditures, check the credit card statements or banking information. Is he a little too close with a friend of the opposite sex? Does he seem to have poor boundaries with women, or a woman, in your lives? Just generally check to see if he's acting shady in any way. 

Maybe he just can't let go of past resentments and some IC for him will help. But, it's probably worthwhile to try to rule out an affair, because if he's in an affair then really nothing you do to work on the marriage will be of any use.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

Sorry to hear and this one's tough. Seems to me like you've both grown apart. Sometimes that's triggered from something specific and sometimes it just happens. Whatever 'happened' or didn't all those years ago fundamentally changed how he sees things and you. His reaction and reasoning are probably ways for him to rationalize and absolve guilt for feeling that way. Which doesn't excuse it because it seems like a selfish way to process and hurtful.

That said...how do you really feel? Natural reaction is to say "of course i love him" and defend the life you've built together. You've invested in it and there's a sunk cost mentality. But really do you want and deserve to be with someone that doesn't cherish and isn't able to understand his own feelings?


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> I think it boils down to resentment that he will never let go of. You can’t change the past but she looks to be trying pretty dang hard. If he can’t get over it...that’s his problem. Besides he never gave her a heads up that she was slacking. He should have spoke up much earlier.


I recall my XW saying to our MC "_He needs to show me he loves me enough._" in response to a question from the MC about what she expected from me. And the MC asking, "_okay, *but what is enough?* What kind of things can he do to show you that?_" I think my XW responded "_I decide what's enough_" or something like that, and they went around in circles until XW got angry and started yelling at the MC...

To me such requests are never actually about love or happiness, but the demander's personal issues, or abandonment issues. They need something to fill that void inside, and they really don't care what... they just need constant attention. They're unable or unwilling to see their behavior for what it is. And regardless of what one does, nothing will ever address it to the demanding spouse's satisfaction. Nothing will ever be enough.


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## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

I sounds like there is more going on that what the OP has indicated here

Now I would say that he might be having an affair, but this has been going on for a long time --it isn't something that came out of the blue, in which a guy looks for excuses to cheat
you need to determine where this resentment and restless is coming from. I never subscribed to the theory that it is simply depression or something chemical. There are reasons for the way we behave and perceive the world.

some things to consider:

1. When he says that you were distant and neglecting the marriage, to what degree is that true? Were you simply a bit icy, or were you completely dismissive towards him, never initiating sex, deliberately bad in bed, isolating in the house, and putting the kids before him in every situation? Was the marriage a roommate situation? And if that is the case, why?

2, What was the sex life like before the troubles started?

3. How is your weight and fitness? Have you gained a lot of weight? Are you still taking care of yourself and dressing well? Are you putting effort into your appearance? Guys will make excuses and come up with all kinds of stories about why they aren't attracted anymore, when it simply comes down to appearance.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

harperlee76 said:


> Anyone every experience something like this?


Some folks go into marriage with very unrealistic expectations thinking that the other person will make them happy. One might also expect that a spouse will outgrow any imperfections and mature. 

The reality is that most folks pretend to be a better version on themself at the beginning of a relationship in order to make a good impression. As time goes by it becomes harder and harder to keep this up until you finally just start being yourself. Then the two people that got married then get to see and know each other for the first time (this process can take a few years). Meanwhile the expectations that you and your spouse would grow into better people and accomplish your dreams are likely still there and probably based on science fiction. 

No you did not become extremely successful in your careers as you wanted to be. More likely you experienced some hardships and setbacks. Your personalities have not matured, but instead you are now aware that each is more imperfect than the day you met. Odds are you each have health issues that places yet another burden on daily life. This is not what you signed up for and it is not what you wanted. 

That is pretty much life! That is pretty much everyone's reality. Hopefully you married someone kind enough to see his/her own faults and work with you as a team to do what it takes to get through it and find some moments of joy here and there to share with one another.

In the words of a good friend of mine, "life is messy!" That pretty much sums it up. 

Badsanta


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## harperlee76 (Mar 4, 2021)

Thanks all for your honest answers. At this juncture, not sure exactly what he can't get over. When this happened all those years ago, he said we never did anything as a couple (i.e. go out without the kids, do fun, exciting things such as concerts, sporting events, etc.) 

He also maintained that while I never turned him down for intimacy (ever) and we were intimate 2-3x a week, it was not what he was seeking. He wanted something more that involved having a nice romantic evening. I will admit that we had teens at home and I was going back to work after finishing grad school. It was hectic to say the least.

Not always the time or inclination to do that. I thought never turning him down was enough. We always had nice family vacations, not couple time. Also, we went out as a couple but dinner. Not those events he wanted. 

So I really tried. We went one some fantastic vacations (just us, no kids.) We went out to fun events but it was not weekly. Just as fun events came up Intimacy stepped up a lot. We went out and I would have a drink or two and really have fun..But looks like that was not enough according to him. We had a real nice evening a week ago (initiated by me after 5 weeks.) The next day I was talking to him with some playful banter and he said that just because we had fun the other night, things still are not right. The next day he said he is not sure if he is in love with me or not. Ouch. Didn't see that coming. He says that he is still resentful because he wants to live life and we aren't doing that. I still have not changed. 

Also, I have maintained my weight, work out and dress nice. Always have and still look decent. As for the possibility of someone else, well the thought has crossed my mind of course. But he is the type that wouldn't beat around the bush with that. I think he would announce he met someone and just leave. On the other hand, I guess it is possible he could be talking to someone and it's a friendship, emotional thing. Jury is still out on that.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

badsanta said:


> Some folks go into marriage with very unrealistic expectations thinking that the other person will make them happy. One might also expect that a spouse will outgrow any imperfections and mature.
> ....


That's not necessarily a deal breaker though. I imagine most people have that sort of attitude - especially prior to their first marriage. Then they learn the hard way that marriage isn't quite an "end" in an of itself they expected... you don't just live happily ever after, you still have to live the rest of your life the same way as before, except now you need to accommodate your spouse's needs as well. Ideally your spouse gives at least as much as they take.

I think emotionally mature people can make that mental adjustment to the reality of marriage without too many problems; they realize _their expectations were unrealistic_, but they love their spouse, and adjust their expectations and behavior accordingly.



harperlee76 said:


> ... The next day I was talking to him with some playful banter and he said that just because we had fun the other night, things still are not right. The next day he said he is not sure if he is in love with me or not. Ouch. Didn't see that coming. He says that he is still resentful because he wants to live life and we aren't doing that. I still have not changed.
> ...


Not to be sexist, but that seems to me an unusual thing for the man to be saying (in a heterosexual marriage)!

I'd push him to get to the point here, and ask what he wants to do to "live life." And if that's not something you can do maybe he's looking for a way out, and just can't bring himself to say it? Or if he';s asking for something you have done for/with him and he's not giving you credit or acknowledging it, then I'd suspect it's not the real reason for his issues, and he's either not being honest or has something wrong with him.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Sounds as if, even after you've expended effort(s) to improve the situation, it's still not enough for your husband. My guess is the dissatisfaction he has with the marriage is within himself. He may be one of those people for whom enough is never enough. Could also be an EA going on that you don't know about. Have you checked out his phone or other social media where he might post?


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## harperlee76 (Mar 4, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> Sounds as if, even after you've expended effort(s) to improve the situation, it's still not enough for your husband. My guess is the dissatisfaction he has with the marriage is within himself. He may be one of those people for whom enough is never enough. Could also be an EA going on that you don't know about. Have you checked out his phone or other social media where he might post?


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## harperlee76 (Mar 4, 2021)

Well I have had a lot to think about. Now with some hindsight, just looking back over this past year, I kind of feel like I had blinders on. The huge drop in intimacy of course, but other signs. When intimacy dropped a lot, I said lets try to fix it since we can't live with room mates. He said that I was a hypocrite for saying that since that's how I was with him for years. Now I don't deny that I made some mistakes but so did he. And when I tried to tell him my side (at least there was some intimacy and pretty frequent at that) he said that's not what he wanted. 

I have always been confident of my looks especially around husband. He always used to compliment me and one day it hit me that he just doesn't do that anymore. I brought it up to him and he said, don't go start with him. But the last year that confidence has dropped. I started losing my confidence about everything (looks, career, etc.) I didn't say anything to him for awhile but when I did, he was basically noncommital and said we get older and change. Well I never brought that topic up again.

Also, when we were having a somewhat serious discussion about the possibility of maybe separating or worse, I said (half jokingly) that I should get more of the the assets if we do split since he was the one who was not getting their needs met and would be causing the split. He countered with actually I was causing it because i made him unhappy. Alrighty then. He also was very apologetic and said he was sorry he was feeling that way. I was still somewhat hoping that we could work things out at this point.

I haven't done any snooping or otherwise regarding a possible emotional (or worse) affair. Even if that was going on, that would be a deal breaker for me anyway. So, things don't look good.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

harperlee76 said:


> Thanks all for your honest answers. At this juncture, not sure exactly what he can't get over. When this happened all those years ago, he said we never did anything as a couple (i.e. go out without the kids, do fun, exciting things such as concerts, sporting events, etc.)
> 
> He also maintained that while I never turned him down for intimacy (ever) and we were intimate 2-3x a week, it was not what he was seeking. He wanted something more that involved having a nice romantic evening. I will admit that we had teens at home and I was going back to work after finishing grad school. It was hectic to say the least.
> 
> ...


Why wouldn't he best around the bush with seeing someone else? 

He has done nothing BUT beat around the bush with his intimacy and love.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

harperlee76 said:


> Well I have had a lot to think about. Now with some hindsight, just looking back over this past year, I kind of feel like I had blinders on. The huge drop in intimacy of course, but other signs. When intimacy dropped a lot, I said lets try to fix it since we can't live with room mates. He said that I was a hypocrite for saying that since that's how I was with him for years. Now I don't deny that I made some mistakes but so did he. And when I tried to tell him my side (at least there was some intimacy and pretty frequent at that) he said that's not what he wanted.
> 
> I have always been confident of my looks especially around husband. He always used to compliment me and one day it hit me that he just doesn't do that anymore. I brought it up to him and he said, don't go start with him. But the last year that confidence has dropped. I started losing my confidence about everything (looks, career, etc.) I didn't say anything to him for awhile but when I did, he was basically noncommital and said we get older and change. Well I never brought that topic up again.
> 
> ...


Your husband is a passive-aggressive manipulator.

He's also full of ****. 

You are in a cycle:

1. He's unhappy, and tells you why.

2. You adjust, and he gladly takes it.

3. After a while, he tells you that while he gladly accepted your increased effort, nothing has changed.

4. Repeat.

I don't buy his game for one moment. Neither should you. You are constantly living under the proverbial Sword of Damocles, and it is borderline emotionally abusive, especially in light of his ****ty, passive-aggressive communication.

Your biggest fault is that you continue to dance to the tune.

Have you ever just simply called his bluff? Understand that in order to do so, you have to be willing to lose the marriage. Some simply...aren't willing to risk it. But ultimately, you are being held hostage by your emotional attachment, and he is more than willing to allow it to continue.

Oh, and him being butt-hurt over sex 2-3 times a week? Bovine excrement. 

Look, I think it is clear he is manipulative. But I also am not painting him as some evil mastermind. Rather, he is emotionally flawed, and trying to solve that flaw in getting you to do something about it. 

Think about that for a moment...

He is missing something, so he asks you to fix it for him. But HE doesn't know what it is...yet he places the burden on you to solve. 

It is a ridiculous situation when you break it down that way...and it only continues if you allow it. 

I'm sorry you have found yourself here. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## harperlee76 (Mar 4, 2021)

Well, many of you kind folks have validated what I have been thinking for years. Husband blames his dissatisfaction, unhappiness, unfullfillment, whatever you want to call it on me. His big complaint is that we never do quality things as a couple that leads to good times and intimacy in the bedroom and out. I have said repeatedly that I thought we were doing just that now (I admitted that it had fallen off in years prior but I also tried to step it up.) He said that no I didn't do anything. The things that I said I tried (going on overnights, concerts, etc.) were few and far between and we would have probably done them anyway, without me having to suggest them. I have said that happiness comes from within while he maintains that his unhappiness is caused by me. 

We had a small argument today when I asked him about seeing a therapist next week. He thinks that someone can help him sort out of he is being unrealistic in his expectations or what his next move should be. I told him that no therapist is going to tell you what to do, you have to figure that out on your own. And I did say that he will never be satisfied. If we manage to get over this rough patch, something else will come up. I also told him that we can't go on like room mates and he said that is how it was for years. Well no, there was physical contact and intimacy, just not what he wanted. He said I am just making excuses, I guess I'm no allowed to give my point of view on things. I said well we have NO contact now, maybe every 2 months and initiated by me. Again, that's how I wanted things. 

Also, after I already sent my response before, I realized that it was kind of ridiculous to say he would not beat around the bush about someone else, he would just leave. He has kept secrets before (not another woman) and felt that when he was caught he was completely justified. So, anything is possible.

Bottom line, I agree with the poster who said he is emotionally flawed. Husband is "very black and white." There is NEVER any middle ground. He is rigid and uncompromising in many of his beliefs. While he is a good man and excellent father, whatever is going on is with him. I told him that telling me he is not sure he is not love with me is close to a deal breaker. I'm not sure how I can go on after that declaration. He tried to backpeddle on that one but we both know what he said. He said that obviously decisions can't be made quickly and overnight. Right now, I am unhappily standing on the sidelines. He isn't the only one who has to make some decisions.

Peace


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

You know his attitude should be a deal breaker. And I agree with farside he is trying to manipulate you and blame his whole unsatisfactory existence on you. He's in a malaise and you are the blame. Guess what he'd be equally unhappy without you probably more. 

It sounds somewhat like a mid-life crisis or the rewriting the truth people do when they start emotional or physical affairs. They have to make their partners out to be the bad guy to justify their bad behavior. You should snoop. You should stop being the punching bag too. 

I'd sit him down and say look I've wanted to fix this and I've tried but you've made it clear you don't even see what I've been doing or contributing. The whole while you aren't doing anything to contribute. You have made it clear you probably don't love me, you don't really want to have sex and I'm done living like this. I'm not responsible for your emotional uncertainty. I am no longer going to allow you to be mine. And decisions can be made quickly. I'll be thinking about how I want to proceed, with or without you very soon. How about you think about it and be prepared to have a sit down next Friday.

Let him go to a therapist. Any of them worth the money will tell him happiness comes from inside. It seems more like he wants porn than connection. You say you live like room mates but room mates normally talk. 

He talks about romance and connection but expects you to initiate. It isn't a rare woman that expects or waits for her man to initiate. Or needs some time and attention to get warmed up. So maybe he is expecting you to drop on your knees and give him a blow job just because you are overwhelmed by the sight of him. Or he expects you to ride him. Or some other fantasy he doesn't have the balls to share. Men want to be wanted. They want to feel wanted. They want you to want sex. And all of that is ok. But it is also normal for it to go the other way too. It seems like maybe he feels you are going through the motions without 'wanting' it in whatever way he has fantasized about. I bring up porn because unimaginative low EQ men expect or want what they see in porn without acknowledging that there are other things at play.

You say you initiate. What exactly does this look like? Do you two ever flirt with each other. Do you ever just grab his but or something like that? How does he pay sexual attention to you? 

Have you heard of love languages. search on the internet and you'll get a short version there is a book as well. But it seems you are trying but not reaching him. I personally think it's because he is being passive aggressive and just wants to place his **** on you. But it is possible you aren't speaking his language. See my language is acts of service. So hubby gets more points for dishes than roses. For many women it's the opposite. What's his language? Are you speaking it. What's yours and what's he doing for you. 

You have spoken about his needs, his complaints and such. But what about you? you deserve things too. Does he check your boxes? Have you thought about his actions and how you are affected.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Your husband is rewriting history to suit his narrative. And, basically, he's an unhappy, miserable man. You can stay and be his whipping post, or you can tell him to GTFO. I was married to someone like this. And it didn't take me long to figure out my husband had a script/narrative in his head. He was going to believe and say whatever he had to in order to sustain his belief system. Fine with me. I left. And I was relieved when I did.

Seriously consider ending this. People like your husband suck the life out of their partners. Let him live with himself. Maybe he'll start to realize he's his own worst enemy. Seriously.


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