# is all hope lost?



## bojangles

Hey, I feel like everything I do is a mistake. Looking for some different perspectives, hope someone can help. We're mid-30's, no kids, my 1st marriage, her 2nd, I pulled her away from her ex. We've been together 8 years, married 3. Here's the rest...

Wife came to me probably over a year ago and said "I'm unhappy, feel unloved, no fireworks". I tried to do things for her to fix it but apparently not enough or in the right way. Mistake #1

She started an affair w/ a co-worker who is also married, every Friday night for awhile. I finally got her to admit it but it took a lot of grinding. Mistake #2

I rode her ass about the affair too much and she finally got sick of talking about it and stonewalled me. Mistake #3. 

I took a personal leave of absence from work and went to another state to be w/ family for 2 months. Mistake #4. 

Of course the affair started back up while I was gone and she admitted it to me after grinding on her. Mistake #5

I told her to quit her job and we'll move out of state. She agreed. I think this was actually a good idea. 

After putting in her notice, I found out she slept w/ this guy AGIAN. I'm still out of state. 

I told her to keep her job, I'm coming back to the home state but don't want to be w/ her anymore. She agreed to let me stay in the apartment that's in her name until I find other arrangements 1-2 months. Mistake #5

I want to talk about affair stuff and only last 2 days in the apartment. Stormed out on her, revoked a car from her that was in my name and sofa surfed for awhile before getting an apt. All mistakes. 

Now we're separated for sure. I've told her I think we can STILL work it out. She says she doesn't think she wants to be w/ me. "Think" gives me a glimmer of hope. 

Think she's just messing w/ me emotionally or means it? I've since read to break off all contact and I've done that. Is my ego just damaged and I'm crazy for wanting her back in my life? Have I done so much damage she'll never talk to me again? I know for now all I can do is wait to see if she calls/texts or gchats me. IF she does that, what's my next move?


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## EunuchMonk

Good griefs, man!

Thank the stars you don't have kids. She is a piece of work, your wife. What exactly are you going back to? More of this same treatment? Yes, you ego is damaged. She is out there being romanced and sexed up by OM and you are on the computer wishing she will take you back? Do you not see anything wrong with this picture 'cause I do.

Flush her out of your system. The way to do that is to find out why you are so co-dependent. Godspeed, OP.


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## Lostinthought61

I am reading your post and your messing with my head...your like a yo-yo...she is clearly not going to give up this guy and she DOES NOT RESPECT YOU....move on. and BURN HER ASS...you can start by telling the guys wife and also their employer...or you can give her back your balls and tell her "i will do what ever you want dear". 

no more mistakes...move on.


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## Satya

When you say you "pulled her from her ex" do you mean that she had an affair, with you, while married?

... If yes, see where I'm going? 

People rarely change. She is not marriage material. Sure, there are many mistakes you made, but the best you can do is learn from them and take action. 

So, what's do you want and what will you do?


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## MrsAldi

I'm not judging but...
You pulled her "away" from her ex husband? 
Or did you cheat with a married woman? 

I'm sorry but do you really think that she can change? 
I don't know, it may take a lot of therapy. 
Wouldn't it just be better to find someone who understands the concept of fidelity and boundaries? 




Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## GuyInColorado

Wow, you are a weak beta male. Find your balls, man up, and never talk to this POFS again. Start going to the gym, eating and drinking healthy, and get your confidence back. You are young. You have no kids. If you have a good job, you can have 90% of the single women out there you desire. You have no idea how good you have it!


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## bojangles

Thanks for your replies. 



EunuchMonk said:


> Good griefs, man!
> 
> Thank the stars you don't have kids. She is a piece of work, your wife. What exactly are you going back to? More of this same treatment? Yes, you ego is damaged. She is out there being romanced and sexed up by OM and you are on the computer wishing she will take you back? Do you not see anything wrong with this picture 'cause I do.
> 
> Flush her out of your system. The way to do that is to find out why you are so co-dependent. Godspeed, OP.


Thanks, I'll get to reading on co-dependency 



Xenote said:


> I am reading your post and your messing with my head...your like a yo-yo...she is clearly not going to give up this guy and she DOES NOT RESPECT YOU....move on. and BURN HER ASS...you can start by telling the guys wife and also their employer...or you can give her back your balls and tell her "i will do what ever you want dear".
> 
> no more mistakes...move on.


Told their bosses when I first found out. I know where he lives and his wife doesn't work. I could tell her but supposedly she knows and doesn't care that he runs around...their marriage is just for show. Pry a lie. 


Satya said:


> When you say you "pulled her from her ex" do you mean that she had an affair, with you, while married?
> 
> ... If yes, see where I'm going?
> 
> People rarely change. She is not marriage material. Sure, there are many mistakes you made, but the best you can do is learn from them and take action.
> 
> So, what's do you want and what will you do?


When we were together and working on it I kinda wanted out and when we're fighting or separated I want back in. Does co dependency make someone yo-yo like that, I wonder. 




MrsAldi said:


> I'm not judging but...
> You pulled her "away" from her ex husband?
> Or did you cheat with a married woman?
> 
> I'm sorry but do you really think that she can change?
> I don't know, it may take a lot of therapy.
> Wouldn't it just be better to find someone who understands the concept of fidelity and boundaries?
> 
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk



They were separated when I met her. He wanted counseling, I convinced her to stick w/ me instead. Maybe bad karma coming back at me.


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## bojangles

90% of the single women aren't hsv+ and never want to have kids.

re: guyincolorado


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## GuyInColorado

Ah, that helps shed some light. You got the Herpes and think this is as good as it gets.


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## Herschel

Have you tried sending her flowers or writing a poem to her? Maybe serenading her outside her boyfriend's window? It's possible she may need you to cover for them if they take a vacation for a weekend, that might do it...


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## Steve1000

EunuchMonk said:


> Good griefs, man!
> 
> Thank the stars you don't have kids.


Or even a house to lose.


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## bojangles

Herschel said:


> Have you tried sending her flowers or writing a poem to her? Maybe serenading her outside her boyfriend's window? It's possible she may need you to cover for them if they take a vacation for a weekend, that might do it...


No, do you see the world in black and white or as it really is? Are you talking down to me because you think it will help me or do you get a small amount of satisfaction out of giving people a hard time? Have you been on the business end of an affair? Probably not, cuz you're an alpha dog and these kinds of things don't happen to alphas unless they're the OM. Which begs the question why are you wasting valuable time on my thread when you could be out mackin another man's wife?


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## Herschel

bojangles said:


> No, do you see the world in black and white or as it really is? Are you talking down to me because you think it will help me or do you get a small amount of satisfaction out of giving people a hard time? Have you been on the business end of an affair? Probably not, cuz you're an alpha dog and these kinds of things don't happen to alphas unless they're the OM. Which begs the question why are you wasting valuable time on my thread when you could be out mackin another man's wife?


I feel ya and I was just trying to show you what it looks like from the outside. I am working through my second divorce right now, so it's not like I don't get it. I just want you to see how fruitless a lot of the stuff you have been doing. 



> "Think" gives me a glimmer of hope.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMRrNY0pxfM

I am telling you to GTFO and don't look back. Work on yourself. Become a new man.


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## LadybugMomma

From what you've posted the only "mistake" you've made is still wanting to be with her. She will cheat over and over again. Rid yourself of her and move on. Get yourself to a lawyer and start the divorce process. If she calls, tell her that you're filing for divorce and be prepared to be served with papers.


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## MJJEAN

If your wife is HSV+ and her OM is married, you have a moral obligation to tell his wife so that she can be tested and treated if he has passed it on to her. She may not care if he has a side fling or two, but I bet she would care very much to know he is having a fling with an STD+ partner.

To your original question, I think you were her exit affair. Now, this new guy is her exit affair. I believe she truly doesn't want to be with you any longer and that you should start detaching and moving on with your life. If you are also HSV+ , well, so is a decent portion of the female population. You could date women who already have HSV or you could date women who are unknown, disclose, and see if it's a dealbreaker. There are many websites specifically for STD+ people to meet and there are also STD specific singles and support groups out there. I know plenty of women in their mid-20 to mid 30's who are not interested in having kids and looking for a man who also doesn't want kids. Trust me, you can find someone who isn't going to cheat on you...repeatedly...even after you discover it and offer reconciliation.

Since you questioned another poster's street cred, I was a WW and a BW in my first marriage, divorced him to be with my exit affair partner, and have been with him for 16 years, married for 13 of those.


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## TAM2013

Dump her and never talk to her again, lift weights, eat well, buy new clothes, concentrate on good friends, talk to them, concentrate on your career, throw all your junk out, get your finances sorted, get drunk with a pal (not every day), READ THIS and never, ever make those mistakes again.


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## sokillme

bojangles said:


> Hey, I feel like everything I do is a mistake. Looking for some different perspectives, hope someone can help. We're mid-30's, no kids, my 1st marriage, her 2nd, I pulled her away from her ex. We've been together 8 years, married 3. Here's the rest...
> 
> Wife came to me probably over a year ago and said "I'm unhappy, feel unloved, no fireworks". I tried to do things for her to fix it but apparently not enough or in the right way. Mistake #1
> 
> She started an affair w/ a co-worker who is also married, every Friday night for awhile. I finally got her to admit it but it took a lot of grinding. Mistake #2
> 
> I rode her ass about the affair too much and she finally got sick of talking about it and stonewalled me. Mistake #3.
> 
> I took a personal leave of absence from work and went to another state to be w/ family for 2 months. Mistake #4.
> 
> Of course the affair started back up while I was gone and she admitted it to me after grinding on her. Mistake #5
> 
> I told her to quit her job and we'll move out of state. She agreed. I think this was actually a good idea.
> 
> After putting in her notice, I found out she slept w/ this guy AGIAN. I'm still out of state.
> 
> I told her to keep her job, I'm coming back to the home state but don't want to be w/ her anymore. She agreed to let me stay in the apartment that's in her name until I find other arrangements 1-2 months. Mistake #5
> 
> I want to talk about affair stuff and only last 2 days in the apartment. Stormed out on her, revoked a car from her that was in my name and sofa surfed for awhile before getting an apt. All mistakes.
> 
> Now we're separated for sure. I've told her I think we can STILL work it out. She says she doesn't think she wants to be w/ me. "Think" gives me a glimmer of hope.
> 
> Think she's just messing w/ me emotionally or means it? I've since read to break off all contact and I've done that. Is my ego just damaged and I'm crazy for wanting her back in my life? Have I done so much damage she'll never talk to me again? I know for now all I can do is wait to see if she calls/texts or gchats me. IF she does that, what's my next move?



"I pulled her away from her ex." If you mean you cheated on her ex with her then this was your first mistake, thinking you can have a successful long term relationship with someone of poor character. 

Your second mistake was not dumping her as soon as you found out she was cheating. 

You can't change her it is in her nature.


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## jb02157

You need to get out of this married while you can. All she's going to do is cheat when you are away. I think the "feeling" unloved speech you got was just for validation for herself. I think that all that time she was seeing someone else.


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## straightshooter

So far I have not read anywhere here where she agrees to stop banging the OM/

So until you can verify that that happens, what is your glimmer of hope hoping for??? her to agree to still allow you to be in her open marriage????

You are playing the good old fashioned "pick me game" and she gets to sit back and choose. make the choice for her. File for divorce and that gives her a finite amount of time to get off the fence. the fact that you let her party with him every Friday night showed her you would do nothing with any consequences. She still believes that is the case.

No kids. Run and do not look back


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## bojangles

I had no idea how much of a ***** I was being until all the replies rolled in. Glad I decided to post in here.


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## bojangles

jb02157 said:


> You need to get out of this married while you can. All she's going to do is cheat when you are away. I think the "feeling" unloved speech you got was just for validation for herself. I think that all that time she was seeing someone else.


I suspect this may be the case. 



straightshooter said:


> So far I have not read anywhere here where she agrees to stop banging the OM/
> 
> the fact that you let her party with him every Friday night showed her you would do nothing with any consequences. She still believes that is the case.
> 
> No kids. Run and do not look back


Every Friday was "happy hour", I didn't allow them once I found out it was actually an affair. Any way you cut it, I have a total majority telling me to man up and run. I'm taking the advice.


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## Mr.Fisty

Have you just thought she is a serial cheater and gets bored and looks for the next fix? She will likely cheat on the the new guy if you divorce. Her blaming you may be just her being bored and she blames you for what she is not cut out for?


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## tropicalbeachiwish

bojangles said:


> Any way you cut it, I have a total majority telling me to man up and run. I'm taking the advice.


Good! Keep posting. There are a lot of folks on here that are dealing with the same thing as you. They can help you with the things that are yet to come.


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## bojangles

she claims she's never cheated on anyone else but she's said alot of **** that turned out to be false.


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## Herschel

bojangles said:


> she claims she's never cheated on anyone else but she's said alot of **** that turned out to be false.


What do you know of her first marriage and her first husband?


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## MarriedDude

bojangles said:


> Hey, I feel like everything I do is a mistake. Looking for some different perspectives, hope someone can help. We're mid-30's, no kids, my 1st marriage, her 2nd, *I pulled her away from her ex*. We've been together 8 years, married 3. Here's the rest...
> 
> Wife came to me probably over a year ago and said "*I'm unhappy, feel unloved, no fireworks*". I tried to do things for her to fix it but apparently not enough or in the right way. Mistake #1
> 
> *She started an affair* w/ a co-worker who is also married, every Friday night for awhile. I finally got her to admit it but it took a lot of grinding. Mistake #2
> 
> I rode her ass about the affair too much and she finally got sick of talking about it and stonewalled me. Mistake #3.
> 
> I took a personal leave of absence from work and went to another state to be w/ family for 2 months. Mistake #4.
> 
> Of course *the affair started back up* while I was gone and she admitted it to me after grinding on her. Mistake #5
> 
> I told her to quit her job and we'll move out of state. She agreed. I think this was actually a good idea.
> 
> After putting in her notice, I found out *she slept w/ this guy AGIAN*. I'm still out of state.
> 
> I told her to keep her job, I'm coming back to the home state but don't want to be w/ her anymore. She agreed to let me stay in the apartment that's in her name until I find other arrangements 1-2 months. Mistake #5
> 
> I want to talk about affair stuff and only last 2 days in the apartment. Stormed out on her, revoked a car from her that was in my name and sofa surfed for awhile before getting an apt. All mistakes.
> 
> Now we're separated for sure. I've told her I think we can STILL work it out. *She says she doesn't think she wants to be w/ me.* "Think" gives me a glimmer of hope.
> 
> Think she's just messing w/ me emotionally or means it? I've since read to break off all contact and I've done that. Is my ego just damaged and *I'm crazy for wanting her back in my life?* Have I done so much damage she'll never talk to me again? I know for now all I can do is wait to see if she calls/texts or gchats me. IF she does that, what's my next move?



Run. Run away from this like it was a bomb...because it is. 

Yes...you are crazy for wanting her back. You want another perspective?? If what is happening to you...was happening to your son, brother, best buddy....what would you tell him to do? 

Do that


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## Manchester

bojangles said:


> She says she doesn't think she wants to be w/ me. "Think" gives me a glimmer of hope.


No it means she has processed her thoughts and after thinking about it she doesn't want you anymore.

It's like you going on a fast circular amusement park ride and you get off and you're falling all over the place and you feel the bile rising in your throat and just as you are about to heave the contents of the sausage and peppers you ate right before getting on the ride, you "think" you're going to puke.


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## Mr.Fisty

bojangles said:


> she claims she's never cheated on anyone else but she's said alot of **** that turned out to be false.



She currently does not have a good track record of honesty. She also lacks the ability to control her impulses. I believe the magical ran out for her after the honeymoon period ended and she sought that out.


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## Hope1964

bojangles said:


> Any way you cut it, I have a total majority telling me to man up and run. I'm taking the advice.


Yay! Please do!! And DO NOT get into another relationship until you have learned how to be happy ON YOUR OWN. You do NOT need a woman to make you happy.


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## GusPolinski

Hope1964 said:


> Yay! Please do!! And DO NOT get into another relationship until you have learned how to be happy ON YOUR OWN. You do NOT need a woman to make you happy.


I'd also add "Stay away from married women" to that list.

In fact, it would be #1 on the list.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

Does dirtbag om's wife know?

It's not fair to keep this from her, particularly since you know std's are involved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bojangles

Herschel said:


> What do you know of her first marriage and her first husband?


That he left her. She said it was because she was partying too much. I'm thinking she did the same to him. And he came back to her wanting to work it out, hooray, I did the exact same thing. He still emails or texts her from time to time. 



Mr.Fisty said:


> She currently does not have a good track record of honesty. She also lacks the ability to control her impulses. I believe the magical ran out for her after the honeymoon period ended and she sought that out.


Thinking so. 



lifeistooshort said:


> Does dirtbag om's wife know?
> 
> It's not fair to keep this from her, particularly since you know std's are involved.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


supposedly yes. Impossible to know the truth at this point. I'm not sure I want to start a war with 1 person I don't know much about (OM) and another that may be a pathological liar (WW). Or look even more pathetic if she really does already know. Sometimes vengeance is good, sometimes not so much. Life isn't fair to any of us. I feel no obligation to tell her.


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## TheTruthHurts

@bojangles you should think about boundaries, honesty and integrity. Look in the mirror and fix what you need to.

Your boundaries are weak because you continue to accept abuse and don't clearly see that you deserve to be treated with respect.

Honesty -come on man - you said you wanted out but reversed course when she took control. Be honest with yourself and keep being honest on future relationships.

Regarding integrity - the fact that you feel no obligation to warn the OM's BS about the STD's shows me you lack - at least to some degree - integrity. I understand why telling her is not priority #1 but "being a man" in my book means doing the right thing even if it's hard.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GusPolinski

bojangles said:


> supposedly yes. Impossible to know the truth at this point. I'm not sure I want to start a war with 1 person I don't know much about (OM) and another that may be a pathological liar (WW). Or look even more pathetic if she really does already know. Sometimes vengeance is good, sometimes not so much. Life isn't fair to any of us. *I feel no obligation to tell her.*


Until you do, you don't deserve to be in any sort of committed relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Malaise

You feel you have no obligation to her, a stranger. Why should we help you, a stranger?

You see how that works?


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## straightshooter

Bojangles,

OK buddy, it seems like you have made the smart decision to get yourself out of this marriage. She appears to be a serial cheater and is not about to stop now. 

Now I'll try again to make some sense for you as to why you should get in touch with this wife of OM. It appears that because it is the moral and right thing to do is having no effect on you. And I am not sure about what you are saying about a conflict over it with OM. Screw him.

Until you divorce your wife, and I hope you do, there is always the chance she may "lure" you back in to try to work it out. If that occurs you are going to kick your self in the butt wondering if his wife really knew or not or if your wife has just added to the lies she has told you.

Regardless, at some point you are going to wonder if you acted on facts or lies, and you will feel much better knowing you knew everything and that there was no reason to second guess yourself.

But first things first, and I hope you meant it when you said you were going to file. She is a nightmare that you are going to keep having again and again.


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## bojangles

last spring i tried her cell from 3 separate lines and left a vm about the affair. never heard back. i suspect he intercepted, maybe not. 

WW's favorite method of deception was gaslighting. second was the limited hangout/half truth. 

i've been told: 

his wife is schitzo
that OM and his wife haven't been intimate for years 
that she doesn't care about him running around
that WW disclosed it to OM

some, all or none of that could be true. 

50-70% of the population has one form or another by midlife whether they know it or not. 

too many unknown variables to go stirring up sh!t over. i understand the counter argument that it's too many unknowns to not act. my moral obligation is to any of my future partners. IF OM contracted it from WW it's his moral obligation, not mine.


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## Manchester

bojangles said:


> 50-70% of the population has one form or another by midlife whether they know it or not.


One form or another of what?


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## bojangles

hsv


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## TheTruthHurts

bojangles said:


> hsv




25% of women and 20% of men and 85% don't know, largely because of dbags like you. Just sayin'


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bojangles

the ad hominem and "just sayin'" are weak forms of argument. the final word is yours if you want to bask in the glory.


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## TheTruthHurts

bojangles said:


> the ad hominem and "just sayin'" are weak forms of argument. the final word is yours if you want to bask in the glory.




Oh, I'm sorry. You misunderstand. I wasn't arguing a point. I was contradicting your claim on the one hand, and articulating why people don't know they're infected on the other. It is not an ad hominem argument when I am directly making a value judgement about your actions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky

The fact that you described the start of your relationship with her as such, and your unwillingness to prioritize telling the OBS about your wife's STD, speaks to your character.

Do the right thing. Not doing so only costs you your honor, and the benefit is you no longer have to fear mirrors.


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## bojangles

I've reconsidered my position on this and have tried to get into contact w/ the OMW. 

So last spring, when I found out OM's last name (through work emails on WW's phone), I went on beenverified.com and got his address. I show up at the house and a lady answers the door. Come to find out, the address was outdated BUT the lady answering the door asked why I was looking for this guy. I told her and she said she owned the home, OM used to rent from her, they had a falling out, he's a POS and she gave me his new address plus OMW's phone number. I had it all right at my fingertips but knew nothing of this forum or the nature of affairs at the time. I could have been cool, calculating and hit a homerun. But I was hot headed, not thinking at all and made a mess. 

I show up at the correct address and he answers the door. This is still last spring. I thought I could intimidate him since I'm a pretty tall and broad dude. Tell him to cut it out. No "or else" just "stop what you're doing, good night." When I get home, I call his wife and leave a VM. (WW much later admits he intercepted that) Next day I text both their bosses, "are you interested in the details of the affair between X and Y?" Ranking boss texts back, "not company policy to interfere in personal lives of employees." I reply, "it's on company time and email." They reply, "still not our business." I act foolishly out of rage and start emailing/texting OM at work. Sent him a meme base on this pic http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/000/130/disaster-girl.jpg He texts me, "stop calling, emailing, texting me, don't come by my house." 

Fast forward to now. I still have OMW's number but can't get through. Tried using co-worker's cell phones, multiple lines at work, left vms, no reply. I took to facebook using a burner account (I din't have a "real" facebook, not into social media at all) sent her a friend request and message that was never accepted/returned. Got in touch with MIL of OM on FB and told her there's an affair going on. She says, "find that hard to believe but I'm listening." I tell her it's a co worker and they meet several times a week. I figure we'll have more exchanges but my burner account gets de-activated shortly after that, probably from having the last name "Ishavinganaffair." I create a real facebook account and send friend requests again, have not had anyone accept. Found MIL and FIL on beenverified. Calls to listed numbers have gone un returned. 

Later that night (after FB blowup) WW calls me but I don't pick up. I know the call is no coincidence and she's hot that I blew **** up on facebook, if only for a day. But, I did not mention the H on facebook, that's something that needs to be told to OMW privately. 

Then, just for ****s, I forward work emails to HR and their bosses realizing WW and OM likely rugswept it. The forwarded emails leave little doubt regarding the nature of their relationship. Next day I get a cease and desist reply from HR but just to not email any employees. 

I could show up at OMW's house on a weekday to try and tell her. I'm worried that all these foolish acts (from not handling anger well) has a) me towing the line of getting charged with legitimate harassment or b) WW and OM seeing me as enough of a threat, that they may frame me for harassment (ww can be a calculating person) c) OM having had plenty of time to condition his wife that "some crazy guy may show up, he thinks I'm with his wife, we're just friends, don't take calls, don't answer the door, call the police, etc." 

I don't know what, if any options I have left without getting into some **** for harassing people.


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## bojangles

also, this should pry be moved to dealing w/ separation and divorce. my first post was hanging onto false hope of reconciling. i've accepted the reality of what's going on which is separated with divorce inevitable.


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## GusPolinski

The employer doesn't care, so move on.

Focus on the wife. Go by his house to and talk to her directly. Make copies of whatever evidence you have and bring it along w/ you. Also give her your email address, phone number(s), and whatever else (FB info, etc) in case she wants to reach out to you later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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