# I don't know if we can reconcile



## LTCNurse

Hi, I'm new here. I just found this forum and I see others are struggling as well. I hope to gain a lot of information here by reading the struggles of other members. Hopefully, others can help me see my marital situation objectively.

I have young adult children from a previous marriage, he has no children and had never been married. We dated 4 years and things were always fun. MAYBE I would have seen some red flags now and then but for the most part but things were going pretty smoothly. 

I wasn't pushing him to marry me, I still had an 18 year old daughter at home who was struggling. I had my own house, he had his own house. I'm going to skip a lot of information here and jump ahead to when we got married in late 2015. Things were calm and going well, at first. But then the mental abuse began.

I was called sl*t, wh*ore, c*unt, b*itch for no reason that I could understand. Sometimes when I would walk outside, he would lock the door behind me and not let me back in. I would have to go around to the garage and enter the code too get back in. He drank every night. He would tell me "you can go sleep out in the back yard tonight." There was no obvious lead up (or fight) to these instances. I couldn't even cut pizza right! He told me I had "single wide mobile home taste in décor." If I was on the couch, he would "playfully" throw his body onto me and it HURT! Most of this was done under the guise of being "playful." Over and over again I told him it wasn't funny. Finally, I had had enough. I was starting a new, intense job and this environment was not supportive. My self esteem was suffering and I no longer felt close to him. I wondered if this was his way of saying he was unhappy (cowardly way but human) so I wrote a letter to him about my concerns and told him that when he was ready to talk about it, I was ready to engage/listen. He never did. My heartfelt letter made him angry. It was not accusatory, but I couldn't continue on in this way. I asked him why he appeared resentful. I wanted to solve it. 

He was so mean the next few nights and it hurt my feelings very badly. I had opened up about how I felt and he was injuring me in the places it hurt (as I had revealed to him). I called out of my new job one Friday and waited until he left for work and cleared out my personal belongings (as much as I could with a RING camera at the front door. It was a one stop load before he looked on his RING website and saw me doing it. He used to say that he lived in a neighborhood where you could leave the doors unlocked but then put up this stupid RING spy device. He also (I didn't know it at the time) put my phone on child security status when he added me to his plan and he regularly spied on me. I had nothing to hide, I certainly wasn't cheating or even in any kind of emotional cheating. 

Anyway, this was in May I left. He was so incredibly mean in text. I finally blocked his number. I had my own phone plan by the time I left and friends who didn't know told me that he would send them messages, like, "I miss you" to see if they were someone I was cheating on him with. That was crazy and embarrassing. 

At Christmas, his number had become unblocked (my carrier blocks it for 3 months at a time) so by then, it had been blocked 7 months. He tearfully (drunk text) texted me and I invited him over for Christmas. He says he doesn't want a divorce, we need to "become friends again". I am reluctant to enter this relationship again. I rented my own place for this year, I want to buy a house again when the lease is up. My 23 hear old daughter is living with me again while I help her through college (she finally got on the right track). He would never allow her too live with us and I've made a 2 year commitment to her to get her through college.

I love him, but I don't want to live with him again. He didn't put me on the deed to the house, we never blended our money or got a joint checking account, we have filed taxes separately since married and he didn't make an effort to treat me well while we were married. I would feel unsafe living with him. Yet, I love him. Does that make sense? What is wrong with me? Am I seeing this right? I am still building myself up again after feeling like I was "less than him". I don't want to feel like that ever again with a "partner". Help me see this clearly. Thanks.


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## MJJEAN

Good Lord, this man sounds like a mentally ill, controlling, abusive, nightmare of a human being. No, you can't reconcile this, nor should you even try. Block him again, get a restraining order if you need to, but under no circumstances try to have any kind of relationship with this creature.


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## Rhubarb

LTCNurse said:


> I was called sl*t, wh*ore, c*unt, b*itch for no reason that I could understand.


That's reason enough for a divorce right there! You would be crazy to get back together with him. Get a divorce, cut all ties and move on. It sounds like your assets are already separated. You don't have any kids together. There is ZERO reason to stay with this guy another minute.


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## LTCNurse

Thank you MJJean. I don't understand why I am spending time imagining reconciliation. He still drinks, probably nightly as he always did. I guess I didn't see this while we were dating since my daughter was still in high school and struggling. It wasn't a long distance relationship, we lived in the same town. Maybe I didn't want to see? 

I don't think he will ever let me close. I have spent the last 8 months getting my sh*t together. I lost my great job by calling out that day (you don't do that in the first three months) and reading his texts at work and getting sad/mad. It was very destructive and I shouldn't have been doing it. Oh well, I have another job and things are going fine. 

I am regularly angry about what I gave up to marry him. I loved my house! He still hasn't given me things that are mine from the house (what does he want with my winter coat for goodness sake?). We talk via text pretty regularly but not important topics, just things like the superbowl l last night while we were watching it separately. There have been NO romantic interludes, nor do I want one!!!! I can't even imagine honestly. How did this go so wrong? Do you guys have any recommendations for books to read or other things to do too enlighten me? I would like to have a healthy relationship with someone in the future but I think I have a lot to learn, apparently.


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## LTCNurse

Thank you Rhubarb. I guess I'm imagining how I would want it to be and not how the relationship/he actually is. My daughter can't stand him-says he "hates women". Assuming she is right, now do I and did I not see this?


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## happy as a clam

You say you still love him. I would venture to say that it’s really a mixture of being “addicted” to him, as well as unhealthy codependency.

Get yourself to Al-anon or CODA as quickly as you can to help you shed this toxic relationship and your “feelings”. Some individual counseling would be good too. And why are you paying for your 23 year old daughter to get through college (presumably you mean financially)? Why are you taking on this responsibility for a grown adult? (in my mind, quite different from an 18 year old youngster heading to college right out of high school). Again, this points toward your codependency — a belief that you have to “fix” things for other people.

Stay away from your husband, he sounds AWFUL (a mean, abusive drunk) and file for divorce if you haven’t already.


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## MJJEAN

LTCNurse said:


> Thank you MJJean. I don't understand why I am spending time imagining reconciliation. He still drinks, probably nightly as he always did. I guess I didn't see this while we were dating since my daughter was still in high school and struggling. It wasn't a long distance relationship, we lived in the same town. Maybe I didn't want to see?
> 
> I don't think he will ever let me close. I have spent the last 8 months getting my sh*t together. I lost my great job by calling out that day (you don't do that in the first three months) and reading his texts at work and getting sad/mad. It was very destructive and I shouldn't have been doing it. Oh well, I have another job and things are going fine.
> 
> I am regularly angry about what I gave up to marry him. I loved my house! He still hasn't given me things that are mine from the house (what does he want with my winter coat for goodness sake?). We talk via text pretty regularly but not important topics, just things like the superbowl l last night while we were watching it separately. There have been NO romantic interludes, nor do I want one!!!! I can't even imagine honestly. How did this go so wrong? Do you guys have any recommendations for books to read or other things to do too enlighten me? I would like to have a healthy relationship with someone in the future but I think I have a lot to learn, apparently.


Why are you worried about him letting you close??? So you can fix him? You can't. No one can. He's a walking disaster. All alcoholics are, even the functioning ones bring drama and bullshyte into the lives of their SO's and families.

I think you ignored the red flags because you wanted him to be the man you hoped/thought he was and, instead, he showed you the man he actually is.



LTCNurse said:


> Thank you Rhubarb. I guess I'm imagining how I would want it to be and not how the relationship/he actually is. My daughter can't stand him-says he "hates women". Assuming she is right, now do I and did I not see this?


Love goggles. Rose colored glasses. The sex haze. I've heard it called many things, but it's limerence. It's the period of a relationship when your hormones are jumping and literally clouding your judgement. Usually, limerence lasts about 12-18 months. Then the hormones start to decrease and you start seeing more clearly.


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## LTCNurse

Thanks to you, also, happy as a clam. I'm taking all advice seriously. If I'm expecting a change in him, it hasn't happened yet. I don't think he wants change or is capable of change. It would be insane to do it again with no change, wouldn't it? It would be different if he suggested counseling but he hasn't. Part of me is soooo angry, the other part of me is stupid as h*ll, I guess.


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## LTCNurse

MJJean, I think you hit on a couple things about me that I don't want to admit. I'm naturally a caretaker, even chose to be one as a career. Why waste brain power trying to "heal" him when he obviously doesn't want to be? Why don't I spend that energy improving my life, my daughter's life, myself? I think each of us have "patterns of behavior" that carry from one relationship to the next UNLESS we seek help to fix our thinking errors. How can I fix this about myself? I can't believe I got it so wrong with him! Good career, same company for 25 years, very stable. He is in sales, I guess he sold himself.


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## LTCNurse

Happy as a clam-I can file in May. 

My daughter is paying her way through college (or doing what is necessary to get scholarships, loans) but was finding it difficult to finish the last two years while working full time t cover her rent. She lived on her own for three years. The last two years in the major field of study is pretty challenging in IT. It relieves her for me to pay the rent. She has to pay her other needs (prescriptions, food, gas, etc). Do you think this is even wrong? I think lots of parents do this for their 20 something children, don't they? Over Christmas, she worked a lot of hours, spring break and summer, she plans to do the same. Do you still think this is wrong?

I believe I am codependent. I have read those books but something is not really getting through to me. But I think I have the belief that if I am useful, if I "save" someone, then they have to love me. That is pretty much codependency! I will spare you the details of my childhood other than to say my father was a child molester. I worked hard to make my Mom love me enough to protect me but she didn't. Same theme going forward, I suppose. it's awful how part of us remains a child inside. Being angry at myself doesn't help though. I have to nurture myself, be gentle. It's been hard enough as it is.:/


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## FalCod

The number one most important rule in relationships is to stay away from crazy. This guy is way crazy. I can't imagine why you think you love someone that treats you like that. If I were in your shoes, I would avoid him entirely - no communication other than what is legally required for the divorce. I'd forget about any of my stuff he still has. Nothing is worth risking that sort of entanglement.


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## MJJEAN

LTCNurse said:


> MJJean, I think you hit on a couple things about me that I don't want to admit. I'm naturally a caretaker, even chose to be one as a career. Why waste brain power trying to "heal" him when he obviously doesn't want to be? Why don't I spend that energy improving my life, my daughter's life, myself? I think each of us have "patterns of behavior" that carry from one relationship to the next UNLESS we seek help to fix our thinking errors. How can I fix this about myself? I can't believe I got it so wrong with him! Good career, same company for 25 years, very stable. He is in sales, I guess he sold himself.


Counseling. Fix this about yourself with counseling. Or serious self help book reading and honest introspection. Whichever works for you.

You suggested you would consider reconciling if he suggested counseling. Don't. For therapy to work, the person seeing the therapist has to be willing to be totally honest, identify their problem(s), and do the work to fix themselves. That ain't him, from the sounds of it. Sure, he may offer to go as a way to get you back, but merely going isn't enough.



LTCNurse said:


> Happy as a clam-I can file in May.
> 
> My daughter is paying her way through college (or doing what is necessary to get scholarships, loans) but was finding it difficult to finish the last two years while working full time t cover her rent. She lived on her own for three years. The last two years in the major field of study is pretty challenging in IT. It relieves her for me to pay the rent. She has to pay her other needs (prescriptions, food, gas, etc). Do you think this is even wrong? I think lots of parents do this for their 20 something children, don't they? Over Christmas, she worked a lot of hours, spring break and summer, she plans to do the same. Do you still think this is wrong?
> 
> I believe I am codependent. I have read those books but something is not really getting through to me. But I think I have the belief that if I am useful, if I "save" someone, then they have to love me. That is pretty much codependency! I will spare you the details of my childhood other than to say my father was a child molester. I worked hard to make my Mom love me enough to protect me but she didn't. Same theme going forward, I suppose. it's awful how part of us remains a child inside. Being angry at myself doesn't help though. I have to nurture myself, be gentle. It's been hard enough as it is.:/


No, I don't think letting your daughter live at home while she works and finishes her degree is co-dependent. I'll be doing the same with my son if he doesn't go out of state for college. 

Sounds like you need to realize you're worthy of love because of who you are without having to "earn" love by "fixing" broken people. You're a female version of the KISA (Knight in Shining Armor).


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## TAMAT

LTCNurse,

What happened to you is not uncommon, men frequently behave like they are the most charming person is the world, until you marry them. After marriage they will want to control and basically enslave you by systematically destroying your sense of self-worth and preventing you from having your own money or cars in your name and burdening you with debt. He will also try to isolate you from everyone else who could help you fight him. It's an ugly process which I have seen time and time again. 

Nothing will be his fault, everything will be your fault, all of his opinions will be true. 

Get out before he destroys more of your life.

Tamat


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## chillymorn69

Run forest run.

Never take this person back or younwill regret it !


Thats my advice!


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## Openminded

Don't even for a moment consider reconciling with him. You'll just end up back in the life you left and that's not some place you need to be. Stay as far away from him as you can. And don't respond to him if he calls or texts. Your daughter is correct -- listen to her -- he doesn't like women. Whatever his issues are, they don't need to be part of your life. Move on.


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## Tomara

I tend to agree with others here. He’s a mean drunk, you are better than that. I believe he sold you fools gold to get you to marry him. Be strong 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LTCNurse

Thank you, thank you, thank you! 

He is smart, makes 6 figures, well groomed, talented in many areas (he has an amazing voice and plays guitar)-I thought I was on the right path. How could there be any major issues with a guy who managed to work at the same company for 25 years? While we were dating, I remember that he was upset when I didn't take him with me when I purchased a car and house. He wanted to make decisions for my life without committing to marriage. I just figured if he "didn't believe in marriage" that I was a single woman making my own decisions, right? 

When he finally asked me to marry him, I was reluctant because I was seeing his anger when I made my own decisions. That was the red flag I ignored. He worked so passively at wearing me down, hurting my confidence about my work when I talked to him about daily issues that happened, told me I couldn't cook (he cooks very well). Even at Christmas when I made dinner, he thanked me for dinner and I said something like, "It turned out pretty well" he replied that "it is designed that way to be easy"-meaning Turkey dinners with the fixings are just easy to come out right no matter who makes it. That's how I took that comment-is that how you guys would take that comment? As rude? Also, at Christmas, He came in, sat on the couch, and took control of my tv. Since I left, he has purchased a BMW motorcycle and his new interest is biking, so he watched an extreme biking competition. He didn't make an offer to help clean up. My take on all of this information gathered at Christmas is-he can put a lot of effort into a new interest (biking) and can apply himself well but he has not made any effort to explore his actions in our marriage. That means no change. That means no way can I enter into another living situation. I guess I've explored staying married, keeping my own home and keeping a friendship. But I don't know because even when we text, he has ways of making me question my work ability, my thinking process, my choices. I hear them loud and clear even if they are sort of passive. That's not friendship. He says the equivalent of "you're too sensitive" or "you see conspiracy in every work situation". I don't believe that's true. I'm not playing victim in my work. He has accused me of playing victim in our marriage. Playing victim is a very limiting world view. I don't think I have it-I see patients with it everyday, from drug abusers who claim we are not medicating them enough with morphine or OxyContin yet they refuse to take part in physical therapy and lay in the same spot 24/7 in their bed. I recognize victim mentality and I don't think I have it. I think it was another way to wear down my self esteem. What do you think? Maybe this is hard to analyze without knowing the actors in this awful real life movie.


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## Taxman

My dear, if I were your father, I would pass on this fatherly advice; NO...Goddamnit,...NO!
He both verbally and physically assaults you, and now through tears he wants back???? Never. Even if it was playful. It speaks volumes of resentment, and aggression. NO! Your old life with him was toxic. Nothing has changed. Better to serve him with a restraining order, than to reconcile.


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## LTCNurse

Thank you Taxman! Oh boy would it have been nice to have a different Father! 

I thank all of you-the administrators who created this site and all of you who have responded. It is incredible to have a place to find support through this very difficult life event, so much pain expressed by posters here! 

I see no positive thoughts from all of you that we should reconcile. I am sad that so far, in this life, I have not had this kind of love in a marriage that we all want and to some extent, EXPECT. I guess that is why it is important to love yourself and have some time building up a lifestyle on your own. Do NOT pick a partner hoping he/she will love you and you will finally have that love you wanted. Vet them, for goodness sake! Date long enough to see how they weather the tough times, to see how they handle difficult issues with you. Don't ignore the red flags! And for goodness sake, make sure this person will be an asset to your family if you decide to have children. Stay away from addicts, social drinking is not a 24/7 thing. If he wakes up and makes a bloody mary but still manages to hold a good job, he can still be an alcoholic. Drugs are a nope. Wake and bake is a big NOPE. If you can't love yourself enough to read the signs, think about what it would be like with children. The children will see the early morning bloody mary and the wake and bake will not stop. Do you want your children to have a DUI in college? An addict will break your heart. Personality disorders will break your heart. Bipolar even while taking meds...this relationship needs to pass the test of time before marriage. Borderline personality disorder....never without a history of and continuation of individual therapy. Read all you can about the signs of these personal issues in your potential partner and even yourself.


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## Openminded

You don't need him. But he needs you so he can put you down and make himself feel superior. 

He will destroy you if you let him. Don't. Get a divorce and move on. Don't even try to keep him as a friend because he isn't.


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## musiclover

Don't go back he won't change. Trust me, I was married to a mean drunk who still says he did nothing wrong to me.


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## lifeistooshort

What are you going to reconcile?

He's an abuser. Period. He's behaving in highly predictable ways.....abuse until your victim leaves, then be charming. Initially they test the waters to see what you'll tolerate....you tolerated it.

If your goal is to reconcile with an abuser then by all means go back. Just do it with your eyes open. 

I suspect part of your problem is that you're basing your self worth on his abuse, so in your mind if your kiss his rear enough he'll stop being abusive and that will make you worthwhile.

Think about it. You actually wrote a letter detailing your hurt feelings and offering to talk to an ABUSER. What did you imagine that would accomplish? That's like asking how you can politely tell someone who's cursing you out that it's not ok. You can't..... if they understand polite they wouldn't be cursing you out.

Don't have anything more to do with this guy. His abuse has nothing to do with you.....its who he is.


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## TAMAT

LTCNurse,

The more you describe this guy the more he sounds like a frustrated perfectionist, possibly some guy who failed at high school or college sports and never got over it. He has to win all the time or better yet make other people lose to prop himself up. 

I have to agree with the others he's a woman hater POS, stand up to him and he will back down and cry into his booze like most bullies. 

Tamat


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## LTCNurse

TAMAT said:


> LTCNurse,
> 
> The more you describe this guy the more he sounds like a frustrated perfectionist, possibly some guy who failed at high school or college sports and never got over it. He has to win all the time or better yet make other people lose to prop himself up.
> 
> I have to agree with the others he's a woman hater POS, stand up to him and he will back down and cry into his booze like most bullies.
> 
> Tamat


I did everything to make him love me (lol). I cleaned up his house (the old one he sold before he bought our marital home which was never mine, really), mended holes in the walls, cleaned carpets, hauled stuff to the dump in my nice, clean BMW SUV, made appointments with charity organizations to take furniture he didn't want to keep, painted, refinished his cabinets, cleaned his refrigerator, pressure washed his deck and re stained it. I know about making a house sellable-long history of rehabbing properties and had my real estate license. I made that place fly off the market (not bragging, it's just the truth). I put my heart in it. He complained. (Why did you cut the carpet out under the stairs storage area? Uh, it was eaten away by a busted bleach bottle). He should have raved about me mending the big holes in the drywall that I repaired the right way. You couldn't even tell there was even a hole there. There were bugs and worms up against the walls downstairs and I had to remove them by hand, they were glued there by their guts, lol. I replaced blinds and vertical blinds, I really put my heart into it. He didn't thank me without an insult included. I saved him thousands of dollars and lots of work if he did it himself. I work second shift so I gave up a lot of sleeping time. I'm so upset about the time and effort I put into this relationship.:frown2:


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## GusPolinski

Nope.


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## Herschel

He is broken AF. Be upset about more time you out into this relationship not what you already have. 

However, I will say “single wide mobile home taste in décor.” Is a pretty funny line. Sorry, but sometimes you just gotta laugh.


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## LTCNurse

Herschel said:


> He is broken AF. Be upset about more time you out into this relationship not what you already have.
> 
> However, I will say “single wide mobile home taste in décor.” Is a pretty funny line. Sorry, but sometimes you just gotta laugh.


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## Openminded

Don't focus on wasted effort in the past. There's no point. Focus on your future without him. And be very careful. Narcissists look for people just like you.


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## MJJEAN

Him wanting to make decisions for you, criticizing you, belittling your hard work and accomplishments...all things abusers do to wear down their victim. Victims who aren't worn down will walk away, you know.


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## LTCNurse

Yes, Herschel, it's funny now...not so much then! I didn't know how to reply on my phone last night!


OK all you wonderful people who replied...I have an appt with an attorney to draw up the divorce papers, serve him and get on the court calendar. It's not until May 5th I can appear in court but lots of process to do before that. I appreciate everyone who commented and I DO believe he is a Narcissist. I'm mourning the good days but now I feel like they weren't even real. I think they were just part of selling himself and not even his REAL self. I could never, ever live with him again because I wouldn't feel secure. Sex after all this hurt would really not be possible in a good way. He could have tried to put a little effort into reconciliation at this point, but instead, he got a biking hobby and worked hard at developing it. A drunk text at Christmas and a little crying is so not enough. I would never say to anyone after a Christmas meal invite, "thanks, it was good, but designed to be easy' which was basically what he said. I also would not leave without offering to clean up. TBH, I don't think he would say that to anyone but me.:/


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## LTCNurse

He actually got a new phone and kept my phone number on his plan!!! Then he texted friends of mine as late as August. If he got a text, I guess he responded like it was someone I cheated on him with, stupid things, like, "I miss you" to try to get them to reply and expose my (supposed) cheating! That is way crazy in my book. When I looked back on the times he asked, "who are you texting" and I would answer honestly, he was matching up the phone number with the name for future identification I guess to see if I was cheating. If he read texts of mine, then he already knew who it was to. I betcha he probably read some bad stuff about himself, too. If I was texting with a sister (one or the other of mine) he probably DID read some negative stuff. Kinda sad he got mad about that (supposedly) instead of seeing why I was hurting and fixing it. I never said anything to anyone about not loving him or wanting too leave. My texts were all about what he said/did and how it hurt. I was really "all in" in this marriage. I didn't plan on leaving until, one night, I knew I was leaving in the morning. When I left that day, I rented a place and bought the basics I would need (bed) because I knew it would be a big struggle to get my things back, if at all. 

After being out for a short time, I had become smart about him and told him...I will file for separation but I have to tell you that if I do, there will be information about the name calling and the locking me outside and the separation papers will be public record. That was enough to make him file himself. He keeps telling me, "I'm just giving you what you want." That is his way of not taking responsibility for the marriage fail. 

Here's one more unbelievable thing I did after the Christmas dinner. He had a car accident on the way back home on new years eve. It took place a couple hours out of town. He texted me to tell him about it and how shook up he was. I am now sure his plan was for me to help him. I took off work (roll eyes I know) drove two hours so he could return his rental, drove home with him pretty much not talking, dropped him off at the local car rental place. Oh my. He filled up my gas tank and gave me $40. I was repeating my pattern as much as he was. I have a lot to work on before trying any relationship again!


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## LTCNurse

I hope this isn't a dead thread yet. The next few months will be hard whatever happens. I will see the attorney this month, I hope it isn't too costly. I think I need to spend the next year renting in order to get my budget back on track. 

So I texted H about marriage counseling and he "thinks he probably would" be willing to go but "why now when I blocked his number for 7 months"?

Does he really not remember being mean AF in texts while I find a new home, find the money to obtain a rental with no furniture in it, keep a new job, finish finals in a masters program as he remotely deletes the Word from my computer?

This is bullsh*t.


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## LTCNurse

I just had what I hope is the last conversation with him that I ever have. I replied to his "I think I probably would" comment and the following "but why did you not talk to me for 7 months" by asking him, "Do you not remember all of the mean texts you were sending me?"

His reply was, "I think that what you thought was mean was not really but you took it that way."  I asked him how I was supposed to take the comment, "You can go sleep in the backyard" and told him he said it more than once, more than twice even. Hedoesn't remember it that way. I said that maybe that was because he was drinking nightly? Then he got angry and told me I have a "conspiracy theory approach to everyone."

I then said that I don't want to have any more conversations. I'm filing and would rather not serve you at work, so as the time gets closer, I will ask him for some dates/times when he is at home. I can't work with the fact that he takes no responsibility for his actions or words.


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## lifeistooshort

You're still trying to negotiate with an abuser.

Please get therapy to find out why you don't understand the futility of this.


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## LTCNurse

lifeistooshort said:


> You're still trying to negotiate with an abuser.
> 
> Please get therapy to find out why you don't understand the futility of this.


Maybe. Or maybe I am just making absolutely sure there is no hope in saving the marriage. And there isn't.

The important part is to make sure I can see through a Narcissist in the future. They sometimes don't show their colors until the conquest is won.


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## lifeistooshort

LTCNurse said:


> Maybe. Or maybe I am just making absolutely sure there is no hope in saving the marriage. And there isn't.
> 
> The important part is to make sure I can see through a Narcissist in the future. They sometimes don't show their colors until the conquest is won.


 Fair enough..... your second paragraph is a good point.

But the first..... this guy has shown you over and over again who he is..... you're refusing to believe him. You shouldn't have to explain that telling you to sleep outside is nasty.....if he was a decent human being he'd know that. 

So either he's not a decent human being or he doesn't give a **** about you. Actually, even a guy who didn't give a **** about you wouldn't do something like that if he was a decent human being.

Why should YOU do the heavy lifting? He should be moving heaven and earth to show you he's not a scumbag.

Yet he's not.


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## LTCNurse

lifeistooshort said:


> Fair enough..... your second paragraph is a good point.
> 
> But the first..... this guy has shown you over and over again who he is..... you're refusing to believe him. You shouldn't have to explain that telling you to sleep outside is nasty.....if he was a decent human being he'd know that.
> 
> So either he's not a decent human being or he doesn't give a **** about you. Actually, even a guy who didn't give a **** about you wouldn't do something like that if he was a decent human being.
> 
> Why should YOU do the heavy lifting? He should be moving heaven and earth to show you he's not a scumbag.
> 
> Yet he's not.


I agree. However, there is nothing like hearing it from the horse's mouth 9 months out. He didn't come up with the idea of counseling himself, he didn't jump on it when I mentioned it, he made excuses for his behavior, had no good answer for why he would say something awful more than once-more than TWICE, and then makes it all my fault by saying I just think it is all a conspiracy against me. What better way to move on totally guilt free than to get perspective from a separate position for 9 months and ask the important questions?
It is also SO helpful to receive input here and read the different stories.


----------



## LTCNurse

Thank you for your input, Lifeistooshort! I started reading the beginning of this thread and it is amazing how much all of you helped me in a short period of time.

It has just been hard for me to see how we dated since 2011 and things were mostly ok, at first they were awesome! Is is just such a shock how much he changed when we got married. We were only married 1 year and 8 months before I left. It started almost immediately after we were married. wth?

Reading other stories, I see that I'm not the only one shocked, I'm not even the only one who delves a little into denial or anger or sadness or even "maybe reconciliation is possible". I'm just awful glad there are no children involved and that my daughter was not close to him. I just keep feeling like it isn't even real. Seriously, wth is up with that kind of change in a person? The only thing that I've read that truly explains that abrupt of a change is if he is a narcissist.


----------



## lifeistooshort

You're welcome!

Don't think you're the only one to overlook red flags.....it happens all the time. 

I did the same thing, though what I dealt with was nothing like what you've dealt with. 

And abusers sniff out targets, so make sure you don't radiate abuse target in the future.

Just don't make the very common mistake of projecting your values onto him. He doesn't share them and thus doesn't react like you.


----------



## LTCNurse

lifeistooshort said:


> You're welcome!
> 
> And abusers sniff out targets, so make sure you don't radiate abuse target in the future.
> 
> .


Quite afraid of that, actually. So my next question is does anyone have recommendations for me to read? List them in here, please, if you will. I have read, Codependent No More and it just didn't help me. I'm sure there are plenty of other things I can read but I think the problem is that I don't know what I don't know!!! 

So we have determined:
1)He's an abuser
2)He's a narcissist 

I may or may not be codependent and whatever the h*ll that means. It doesn't mean I like abuse because I don't!!! 

I used to work at a job (as a nurse) where a coworker was a big bully. She didn't just bully me, she bullied others but I don't know why or how she picked us. She made me miserable. That is what H is referring to when he says I see conspiracies at work (which doesn't make that much sense to me, just another jab at me). Now, at this job, I am calm when a coworker wants to bully (bullies are everywhere but dang, nurses can be mean to each other). Anyway, I think that the combination of living with a bully as well as working with one was just too much stress for me. I am so relieved now. The only one who is a bully at my current job really doesn't have any professional power so it doesn't rattle me as much. Though I am a strong person due to what I had to work through as a child and how I've managed to make something of myself, I am a soft person in other ways. I tend to want to take someone else's hurt away or to help them to see what is causing their hurt. Is this what is meant by codependence?


----------



## LTCNurse

Hmm, reading codependent definition and I don't think it really fits. I was surprised when he started getting mean once we were married. I didn't enjoy it and didn't try to "fix" him. I just couldn't believe it was happening and in 18 months, I was done! He was attempting to wipe away any self esteem I had, he didn't like me studying to get my masters degree, and then the abuse part you already heard too much about. I didn't support his drinking, try to cure his drinking, I didn't try to stop seeing friends because of him-I recognized his unhealthy behaviors and I sure wasn't liking it. 

But the focus is on me (he is gone) and what I need to do not to be an abuse/narcissist/crazy magnet.


----------



## LTCNurse

lifeistooshort said:


> Just don't make the very common mistake of projecting your values onto him. He doesn't share them and thus doesn't react like you.


OMG! I started googling on abuse, emotional abuse, emotional violence and after reading...as stupid as this sounds....I never knew that other people THOUGHT this way! I thought that, for the most part, people think similar to me except for the outliers of society. I really never have approached people in everyday life thinking that they could have extremely different views than I do (duh).

For example, I never thought anyone would lie about their belief system to get you to accept them and enter into a relationship with them, I didn't think H could or would or did...from the beginning, I guess...think that he is superior to me and will always believe that! I don't know if I could have seen that when he was always so nicey nicey when we were dating and so generous. I guess I need to challenge someone's belief system to find out if it holds true? Or are some people so smart that they would see right through that?

I have spent a long time not being that child who grew up only being what parents filled me up to be. I never had the luxury of discovering what I wanted. This is a hard burden to drop because it's hard to accept and believe and know HOW to figure out what my own hopes and dreams are. Maybe few understand what I am talking about here but the abused child will. It would be nice to have a forum section on that. I'm just blown away by what you said up there and how it never got through to my brain until now.


----------



## Andy1001

LTCNurse said:


> OMG! I started googling on abuse, emotional abuse, emotional violence and after reading...as stupid as this sounds....I never knew that other people THOUGHT this way! I thought that, for the most part, people think similar to me except for the outliers of society. I really never have approached people in everyday life thinking that they could have extremely different views than I do (duh).
> 
> For example, I never thought anyone would lie about their belief system to get you to accept them and enter into a relationship with them, I didn't think H could or would or did...from the beginning, I guess...think that he is superior to me and will always believe that! I don't know if I could have seen that when he was always so nicey nicey when we were dating and so generous. I guess I need to challenge someone's belief system to find out if it holds true? Or are some people so smart that they would see right through that?
> 
> I have spent a long time not being that child who grew up only being what parents filled me up to be. I never had the luxury of discovering what I wanted. This is a hard burden to drop because it's hard to accept and believe and know HOW to figure out what my own hopes and dreams are. Maybe few understand what I am talking about here but the abused child will. It would be nice to have a forum section on that. I'm just blown away by what you said up there and how it never got through to my brain until now.


You are seeing your husband as a patient who has an illness and you think he can get better.
He won’t change,he has lived his life like this,hiding behind a facade and when he feels he had you trapped he showed his real self.
When someone shows you who they really are,believe them.


----------



## LTCNurse

Andy1001 said:


> You are seeing your husband as a patient who has an illness and you think he can get better.
> He won’t change,he has lived his life like this,hiding behind a facade and when he feels he had you trapped he showed his real self.
> When someone shows you who they really are,believe them.


Not anymore I'm not, it's a new day!!!

I have tons of patients with addictions and personality disorders and they are very hard to like. I never thought for a minute to apply this to my own life, wth is wrong with me!!! And I know all about the cycle of violence but, again, never thought to apply this to me. I haven't a clue why I was so dense except to say that I really have spent my whole life climbing out of the abuse from my childhood.


----------



## LTCNurse

So I blocked H again on my phone and then he texted my daughter. He texted something about me and my conspiracy theories, how I twisted events and words and wrote, "you know the drill". Did he think my daughter was going to side with him?? We didn't reply.

What is this 180 deal I keep hearing about?

Oh, I see, I tried to paste the link here and it won't let me. Regardless, The 180 plan is for reconciliation so it doesn't apply. We are toast at this point. I would never be able to trust him again.


----------



## VeryHurt

Trust me on this >>>>>>>> DIVORCE HIM !!!!!
Be Strong !!!


----------



## Openminded

The 180 is for you to detach and move on. Sometimes it does work to wake a spouse up but that's not its purpose. It's solely for you. And frankly you should have never considered R with him anyway. He's a user -- and he's not through yet. He really needs you to prop him up. The 180 will help you be done with him.


----------



## LTCNurse

Openminded said:


> The 180 is for you to detach and move on. Sometimes it does work to wake a spouse up but that's not its purpose. It's solely for you. And frankly you should have never considered R with him anyway. He's a user -- and he's not through yet. He really needs you to prop him up. The 180 will help you be done with him.



I kinda figured after NC for 7 months, he wouldn't even bother anymore. But my 2nd 30 day block was over and he texted me again a few days before Christmas. I was silly enough to think that maybe he had thought about things he had done and would be different. 

May is our 1 year of us living apart that is required by our state. I am very done so don't worry. I just hope he goes away and leaves me alone. I don't want to hear another f*cked up word from him, he actually texted that I am "twisting things" about remembering him locking me out and telling me to sleep outside! Is that called gaslighting?


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## lifeistooshort

LTCNurse said:


> I kinda figured after NC for 7 months, he wouldn't even bother anymore. But my 2nd 30 day block was over and he texted me again a few days before Christmas. I was silly enough to think that maybe he had thought about things he had done and would be different.
> 
> May is our 1 year of us living apart that is required by our state. I am very done so don't worry. I just hope he goes away and leaves me alone. I don't want to hear another f*cked up word from him, he actually texted that I am "twisting things" about remembering him locking me out and telling me to sleep outside! Is that called gaslighting?


Textbook abuser.....gaslight your victim. 

You know who he is.


----------



## LTCNurse

lifeistooshort said:


> Textbook abuser.....gaslight your victim.
> 
> You know who he is.



I am forever in debt to you wonderful people! Awesome site, awesome people! I'll update you when the deed is done. I hate that it came to this but there is nothing more I can do.


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## LTCNurse

Went to attorney today and paid for the divorce to be prepared by the attorney. Next is a house purchase again! Goodbye renting!


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## Openminded

Good for you. You're on your way to a normal life again.


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## LTCNurse

When I first moved into this tiny rental house, it was big enough for one person....ME! But now that we are a family of three (Daughter, her doggie and me) I want a place just a little bigger and of course, I want to own my own place again. I put a bid on one place, someone bid higher. Now I'm in a contract for a second property and it looks like it is going well so far. I will be a homeowner again soon!!!

As I mentioned on the last post, went NC again and this time permanently. Even email is blocked but when I pulled up a copy of our separation agreement (sent by him) I got a look at all the emails he had sent me over the last year that I never received. I don't care about any of them but the last one, that said, "The communication problem was yours alone, I was all in." :surprise:

What the actual hell is wrong with his brain? I asked him if he wanted to go to marriage counseling and he said he would have been interested if I hadn't been NC for 7 months, he cries, he asks me out, he comes over for Christmas....how many mixed signals can a person give who, apparently, was "all in". How does someone even think like this? I am very disappointed in myself that I fell for this mess of a human being but even more shocked that someone wants to f*ck with someone's brain in this fashion. What is an abuser/control freak thinking? I just don't understand. I doubt I will ever take the risk again. I know everyone says this though.

Edited to add: I am SO looking forward to filtered water again, ice cubes and a dishwasher! WOOOT!


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## LTCNurse

Today I close on my condo!

I received a message from STBXH that slammed me twice. First sentence was it is almost over, another divorce for you (I was his first marriage at 54 yo). The second sentence was something like, "I am so sorry you screwed me over."

I feel silly to say that I stewed for hours on how to respond. It's best not to, right? One day it will stop, right? 

Why does he want to try and inflict pain? He's not the only one hurting, he hasn't looked at a thing he has done wrong and this will never change between us, right?

I didn't screw him over, I can't see how he can even feel that way. I want to feel like humanity doesn't suck again.


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## BluesPower

LTCNurse said:


> Today I close on my condo!
> 
> I received a message from STBXH that slammed me twice. First sentence was it is almost over, another divorce for you (I was his first marriage at 54 yo). The second sentence was something like, "I am so sorry you screwed me over."
> 
> I feel silly to say that I stewed for hours on how to respond. It's best not to, right? One day it will stop, right?
> 
> Why does he want to try and inflict pain? He's not the only one hurting, he hasn't looked at a thing he has done wrong and this will never change between us, right?
> 
> I didn't screw him over, I can't see how he can even feel that way. I want to feel like humanity doesn't suck again.


If someone did not tell you already, he is completely nuts, actually completely insane. He may have a job and appear function but that is all he is doing. 

My GF married a guy like this. He did a complete personality change when she married him. It completely freaked her out as well. 

I am not sure what the name is for this type of thing, but it is usually called a bait and switch, and it is usually woman that do this from what I have heard. 

They are nuts, but they keep it under wraps while dating, like they do in their everyday life. When they get married you actually get to meet the real monster. 

I wonder if there is a philological name for this. 

Just stay no contact and be glad you got out when you did...


----------



## LTCNurse

Thanks Bluespower. Boy was I shocked and still am. I didn't respond...still have no idea how to anyway. But I am a proud owner of a little condo that needs some TLC so I will be BUSY!!!


----------



## aine

LTC, I have only read halfway through and all i can see is that your H is

1. an emotional abuser 
2. possibly an alcoholic too 

This does not make for a good mix at all. I think you should run for the hills, there is nothing to save here unless you want more of the same thing.
If you are a caretaker/co-dependent you will be drawn to people like you H in order to save them. Read on SoberRecovery.com friends and family and learn how Al-Anon helps friends and families of A especially when they are always covering and enabling the A.
Even if he gets help for his drinking, as the saying goes, if you have an alcoholic horse thief, take away the alcohol you still have a horse thief. i think this is the same with your H. Sorry.

Work on yourself and take care of your side of the street. Unless he goes to AA, therapy, etc and makes fundamental changes you would be crazy to go back with him.


----------



## aine

LTCNurse said:


> Today I close on my condo!
> 
> I received a message from STBXH that slammed me twice. First sentence was it is almost over, another divorce for you (I was his first marriage at 54 yo). The second sentence was something like, "I am so sorry you screwed me over."
> 
> I feel silly to say that I stewed for hours on how to respond. It's best not to, right? One day it will stop, right?
> 
> Why does he want to try and inflict pain? He's not the only one hurting, he hasn't looked at a thing he has done wrong and this will never change between us, right?
> 
> I didn't screw him over, I can't see how he can even feel that way. I want to feel like humanity doesn't suck again.


He is playing with your mind. Read this.

https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/a...t-emotional-abuse-can-make-you-think-you-are/

Did you never wonder why he never married before you? He as almost 50 when you married, to me that is already a red flag.


----------



## RandomDude

A little late on this thread. Just glad that you made the right choice LTCNurse.

Never get involved with anyone with any hint of bitterness towards women. How you could have loved him baffles me. But I'm glad you have upped your standards since.


----------



## LTCNurse

aine said:


> He is playing with your mind. Read this.
> 
> https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/a...t-emotional-abuse-can-make-you-think-you-are/
> 
> Did you never wonder why he never married before you? He as almost 50 when you married, to me that is already a red flag.


Thanks Aine! I read your link. I can see how a person, with parents who were abusive, can get into the pattern of being with abusive partners. There is no comparison for a healthy relationship! That's why, reading this type of article years ago, would not have really "sunk in". I've read the cycle of abuse tons of times and I apply it to other people in my job but applying it to self is another matter. It is weird how it doesn't sink in! Another reason it didn't sink in years ago is because a lot of women (all people probably ) think they are overreacting to apply the cycle of violence in cases of emotional/mental abuse. It's about physical violence only (they think). I remember years ago that I thought that physical violence was only a punch in the face. it didn't apply to pushing, blocking an exit or throwing things at someone. I don't know how to get through to abused persons more effectively. How frustrating! I would glady spare anyone the sh*t I've been through if I knew how to get through to them earlier.


----------



## LTCNurse

RandomDude said:


> A little late on this thread. Just glad that you made the right choice LTCNurse.
> 
> Never get involved with anyone with any hint of bitterness towards women. How you could have loved him baffles me. But I'm glad you have upped your standards since.


Good point, it is always important to look at someone's behavior toward others and know that, someday, this is how he/she will act toward YOU eventually.


----------



## LTCNurse

aine said:


> Even if he gets help for his drinking, as the saying goes, if you have an alcoholic horse thief, take away the alcohol you still have a horse thief. i think this is the same with your H. Sorry.
> 
> 
> .



Haha! I never heard this before! I would tend to think the drinking is the cause for horse thieving but...no....the saying is correct. 

You know what? This thread has helped me more than years of IC. Seriously...you people rock.


----------



## LTCNurse

Good news...I own my own place again after a year of renting post separation. What a relief!

Bad news (mostly), my block time ended on my phone and ex is texting me again. He isn't being an a**hole but who knows if these texts are manipulative. Here's a sample:

I'm sorry I let you down, I love you always, I think I know what depression is now, I feel like I deserve to feel bad...it sucks enormously, I own this failure, I'm sorry I made you feel so unhappy, I was/am in a bad place, I don't know what is wrong with me, I might be damaged.

I'm going to change my phone number. I emotionally invest in these texts (anger or confusion or whatever) and I don't want to. WTF is wrong with him?


----------



## Beach123

You may never figure out what's wrong with him! 

When you stop wondering - that's when you'll make progress. Get professional help. Help so that you don't give him ANY more of you time/thoughts!

He may not change - so I'm glad you're changing it!

Change the phone number! Do not give him the new number and if he ever texts/calls - do NOT respond! Abusers love to invoke a response.


----------



## Beach123

LTCNurse said:


> Today I close on my condo!
> 
> I received a message from STBXH that slammed me twice. First sentence was it is almost over, another divorce for you (I was his first marriage at 54 yo). The second sentence was something like, "I am so sorry you screwed me over."
> 
> I feel silly to say that I stewed for hours on how to respond. It's best not to, right? One day it will stop, right?
> 
> Why does he want to try and inflict pain? He's not the only one hurting, he hasn't looked at a thing he has done wrong and this will never change between us, right?
> 
> I didn't screw him over, I can't see how he can even feel that way. I want to feel like humanity doesn't suck again.


Why does he inflict pain? Because every abuser needs a victim.

You see, it's him, not you.

Stop thinking it's you.


----------



## Openminded

He's likely trying to make you feel sorry for him (and he definitely feels sorry for himself) so you'll rescue him again. He's not likely to stop so you need to reblock or get a new number or whatever you have to do so that he stays in the past where he belongs.


----------



## LTCNurse

Openminded said:


> He's likely trying to make you feel sorry for him (and he definitely feels sorry for himself) so you'll rescue him again. He's not likely to stop so you need to reblock or get a new number or whatever you have to do so that he stays in the past where he belongs.


I agree. I think that HE feels better if I engage him. I think that he is thinking he is "not that bad" if I am willing to talk to him again. He texted me again yesterday. Next time I have a day off, I'm changing my number. It is a pain in the a*s to do it but I guess I have to. I want to forget he exists. There's nothing there and yes, whoever said it above, he has already had enough of my time.


----------



## Beach123

He's the perpetrator who needs a willing victim.

Don't be the victim! ANY contact is his opportunity to be cruel to you so just don't communicate - ever.

Next up expect him to have some "emergency" to grab attention - don't fall for it! He will, it's a matter of when. 

It's his way of checking to see if you will participate - DON'T participate on ANY level.

Instruct your attorney to communicate every single time.


----------



## Cynthia

Congratulations on your new home.

Have you filed for divorce?

Why haven't you changed your phone number? Delete his texts, block him again, go get a new number.



LTCNurse said:


> Good news...I own my own place again after a year of renting post separation. What a relief!
> 
> Bad news (mostly), my block time ended on my phone and ex is texting me again. He isn't being an a**hole but who knows if these texts are manipulative. Here's a sample:
> 
> I'm sorry I let you down, I love you always, I think I know what depression is now, I feel like I deserve to feel bad...it sucks enormously, I own this failure, I'm sorry I made you feel so unhappy, I was/am in a bad place, I don't know what is wrong with me, I might be damaged.
> 
> I'm going to change my phone number. I emotionally invest in these texts (anger or confusion or whatever) and I don't want to. WTF is wrong with him?


----------



## Adelais

LTCNurse said:


> I did everything to make him love me (lol). I cleaned up his house (the old one he sold before he bought our marital home which was never mine, really), mended holes in the walls, cleaned carpets, hauled stuff to the dump in my nice, clean BMW SUV, made appointments with charity organizations to take furniture he didn't want to keep, painted, refinished his cabinets, cleaned his refrigerator, pressure washed his deck and re stained it. I know about making a house sellable-long history of rehabbing properties and had my real estate license. I made that place fly off the market (not bragging, it's just the truth). I put my heart in it. He complained. (Why did you cut the carpet out under the stairs storage area? Uh, it was eaten away by a busted bleach bottle). He should have raved about me mending the big holes in the drywall that I repaired the right way. You couldn't even tell there was even a hole there. There were bugs and worms up against the walls downstairs and I had to remove them by hand, they were glued there by their guts, lol. I replaced blinds and vertical blinds, I really put my heart into it. He didn't thank me without an insult included. I saved him thousands of dollars and lots of work if he did it himself. I work second shift so I gave up a lot of sleeping time. I'm so upset about the time and effort I put into this relationship.:frown2:


Wow! That is a lot of free work!

You seem like a nice person LTCNurse, but there is definitely codependency going on. Your first step in recognizing it is admitting what you get out of "helping" so much. Do you feel important, valuable, think you are making the person you are helping indebted to you so they will keep you around?

If you had known he was going to treat you badly and that you would get nothing good out of the relationship, what of the huge list of things you wrote would you have done anyway? If the answer is "none of it" that shows that you had hidden motives...codependency.


----------



## MJJEAN

Why should you have to change your number? Tell him to stop texting you or you'll take legal action.


----------



## LTCNurse

Araucaria said:


> If you had known he was going to treat you badly and that you would get nothing good out of the relationship, what of the huge list of things you wrote would you have done anyway? If the answer is "none of it" that shows that you had hidden motives...codependency.



Really? Do others agree with this statement because I don't. Members here who don't have children from a marriage (because that changes perspective) and that marriage ended badly and was abusive in some way, wouldn't we all say we wouldn't do it again? At this point, I wouldn't have repeated even the good times! I think that "insight" doesn't fly, I don't think.


----------



## LTCNurse

MJJEAN said:


> Why should you have to change your number? Tell him to stop texting you or you'll take legal action.


I'm pretty sure he won't listen and I'm pretty sure I'm not going to invest energy and money in an attorney. I think his impulse to text me after drinking is too strong.


----------



## LTCNurse

CynthiaDe said:


> Why haven't you changed your phone number? Delete his texts, block him again, go get a new number.



Differing opinions here for sure!:smthumbup:

Separation has to be a year here in NC. It has now been a year, divorce complaint has been filed.

Anyone here have Verizon? From what I read from previous blocks, I can have 3 three month blocks for a number and that is it. So now that is over.


----------



## Beach123

LTCNurse said:


> Differing opinions here for sure!:smthumbup:
> 
> Separation has to be a year here in NC. It has now been a year, divorce complaint has been filed.
> 
> Anyone here have Verizon? From what I read from previous blocks, I can have 3 three month blocks for a number and that is it. So now that is over.


Get a new phone carrier or a different phone or both. Its worth it.


----------



## Openminded

It's unfortunate that you have to change your number but if that's what it takes to get rid of him then it will be worth it. Otherwise, he very likely won't give up because he knows replacing you won't be easy so he'll keep trying to stay in your life.


----------



## Adelais

LTCNurse said:


> *I did everything to make him love me (lol).* I cleaned up his house (the old one he sold before he bought our marital home which was never mine, really), mended holes in the walls, cleaned carpets, hauled stuff to the dump in my nice, clean BMW SUV, made appointments with charity organizations to take furniture he didn't want to keep, painted, refinished his cabinets, cleaned his refrigerator, pressure washed his deck and re stained it. I know about making a house sellable-long history of rehabbing properties and had my real estate license. I made that place fly off the market (not bragging, it's just the truth). I put my heart in it. He complained. (Why did you cut the carpet out under the stairs storage area? Uh, it was eaten away by a busted bleach bottle). He should have raved about me mending the big holes in the drywall that I repaired the right way. You couldn't even tell there was even a hole there. There were bugs and worms up against the walls downstairs and I had to remove them by hand, they were glued there by their guts, lol. I replaced blinds and vertical blinds, I really put my heart into it. He didn't thank me without an insult included. *I saved him thousands of dollars and lots of work if he did it himself. I work second shift so I gave up a lot of sleeping time. I'm so upset about the time and effort I put into this relationship.:frown2:*





Araucaria said:


> Wow! That is a lot of free work!
> 
> You seem like a nice person LTCNurse, but there is definitely codependency going on. Your first step in recognizing it is admitting what you get out of "helping" so much. Do you feel important, valuable, think you are making the person you are helping indebted to you so they will keep you around?
> 
> If you had known he was going to treat you badly and that you would get nothing good out of the relationship, what of the huge list of things you wrote would you have done anyway? If the answer is "none of it" that shows that you had hidden motives...codependency.





LTCNurse said:


> Really? Do others agree with this statement because I don't. Members here who don't have children from a marriage (because that changes perspective) and that marriage ended badly and was abusive in some way, wouldn't we all say we wouldn't do it again? At this point, I wouldn't have repeated even the good times! I think that "insight" doesn't fly, I don't think.


First I want you to know that I am not trying to attack you. I just want to help you recognize if you had any unhealthy part in how you picked him, what you did to keep him interested in you, what you got out of it, etc. so you can break your side of the cycle. Otherwise you will find yourself attracted to another abusive guy again. There is an expression I learned on marriage boards: "Your picker is broke."

Healthy people don't have to do things to "make" someone love them. They are just themselves, and let a relationship grow or die based on natural attraction and compatibility. If the relationship ends they don't make a huge list of the things they did for the other person and then regret everything they did that they think should have made the other person keep them around.

There is a book called "No More Mr. Nice Guy." It is written for men but some of it can also apply to women, or codependent people in general.

The book explains "covert contracts." Men usually make them for sex. They do all kinds of things for a woman throughout the day hoping that at the end of the day they will get sex. When they don't get sex, they are angry thinking the woman isn't fulfilling her end of the bargain. However, she didn't know there were strings attached to all the nice things the guy was doing.

It is a little different for women. Some women also make covert contracts. They put up with and do a lot of things for a guy (including having sex) in hopes of having a lasting relationship. They will put up with alcoholism and some abuse, while doing way more of the physical labor around the house than they should, just to be in a relationship. When they are not appreciated for what they did, or they are dumped, they feel taken advantage of. The guy didn't take advantage of her. He didn't ask her to do all those things, she chose to. He didn't realize that he was obligated to keep her around longer than the expiration date in return for all her hard work.

How did you miss that your guy was an alcoholic when you were dating? The alcohol sweats out of the pores even when an alcoholic is not drinking. If he drinks at night, you can smell it the next day, even after a shower. In addition, they have dysfunctional personalities that most people can identify in normal daily interactions.

There were red flags that would have caused other people to not even consider him as dating material, yet you didn't recognize those red flags, or ignored them and became more attracted to him ultimately marrying him.

You mentioned your past, or childhood. Were you abused, or did you live with an alcoholic or drug addicted abusive parent, or father?

You're an intelligent woman, no one is begrudging you that. Being codependent isn't a matter of intelligence, it is conditioned personality trait, that can be changed.

I'm not picking on you, I'm being honest with you, because I know that if you don't recognize and fix your side (codependency) of the equation you will pick another man like your ex, and live that cycle of abuse again and again.


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## Cynthia

Araucaria said:


> How did you miss that your guy was an alcoholic when you were dating? The alcohol sweats out of the pores even when an alcoholic is not drinking. If he drinks at night, you can smell it the next day, even after a shower. In addition, they have dysfunctional personalities that most people can identify in normal daily interactions.


If you don't know what an alcoholic smells like, how would you know that the smell is indicative of an alcoholic? I've never even heard that before, so if I ran across something like that I would probably just think that person smelled weird or that was their particular smell. Everyone has a particular smell that is related to their lifestyle and all the scents involved from what they eat to what they wash their clothing with. There are some things that are easily recognized like dog smell or garlic, but a lot of scents are difficult to break down into recognizable components, especially if someone isn't familiar with the origin of the scent.


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## Adelais

CynthiaDe said:


> If you don't know what an alcoholic smells like, how would you know that the smell is indicative of an alcoholic? I've never even heard that before, so if I ran across something like that I would probably just think that person smelled weird or that was their particular smell. Everyone has a particular smell that is related to their lifestyle and all the scents involved from what they eat to what they wash their clothing with. There are some things that are easily recognized like dog smell or garlic, but a lot of scents are difficult to break down into recognizable components, especially if someone isn't familiar with the origin of the scent.


It took 10 seconds to find a whole list of articles and message boards about it on the internet. Here's just one of them:

http://alcoholrehab.com/alcoholism/smell-of-alcohol-breath-pores/

It is an unmistakeable odor, which emanates from the pores, as well as permeates the clothes, and is a sweet, stale, and sometimes slight alcohol odor. I've smelled it on people while standing in the grocery line as well as have known heavy drinkers through work when I was a high school teacher. I've smelled it on several men who did repairs to our home. 

It doesn't matter what their liquor of choice is, when they drink a lot of it, they all smell the same when the body is detoxing the alcohol from the body.

I'm surprised that you haven't recognized it in your interactions with people throughout your life. Maybe I have a "good nose."


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## Cynthia

I'm not saying there isn't a scent associated with alcoholism. I'm saying that if a person doesn't know what the odor is from, they don't know it's from alcohol. I have no idea what an alcoholic smells like. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be able to smell it. It means if I have smelled it, I didn't know that's what it was from.

I have a ridiculous sense of smell, but if I have no idea what that smell is from, how would I be able to identify it? For example, laundry detergent smells very strong to me, but I don't know if you're using Arm and Hammer or Tide, because I don't use either of them. I can tell if someone uses dryer sheets, because I can physically feel it in the back of my throat. But if I had never seen a package of dryer sheets and smelled them, I wouldn't know what that smell was from. I would recognize the smell, but not know it was from dryer sheets.

So maybe I have smelled that alcoholic smell before, but didn't know it had anything to do with alcohol. This is what I'm saying about the OP. If she didn't know that smell was from alcohol, she could have thought it was his soap or his laundry detergent or moldy bread or the stale smell from his house not being aired out or cleaned, etc. 



Araucaria said:


> It took 10 seconds to find a whole list of articles and message boards about it on the internet. Here's just one of them:
> 
> http://alcoholrehab.com/alcoholism/smell-of-alcohol-breath-pores/
> 
> It is an unmistakeable odor, which emanates from the pores, as well as permeates the clothes, and is a sweet, stale, and sometimes slight alcohol odor. I've smelled it on people while standing in the grocery line as well as have known heavy drinkers through work when I was a high school teacher. I've smelled it on several men who did repairs to our home.
> 
> It doesn't matter what their liquor of choice is, when they drink a lot of it, they all smell the same when the body is detoxing the alcohol from the body.
> 
> I'm surprised that you haven't recognized it in your interactions with people throughout your life. Maybe I have a "good nose."


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## LTCNurse

I was responding and took tooo long so I wasn't able too save my response!!! Ugh.

My picker is dfinitely broken. I don't think I can ever do a relationoship again. No relationship I have ever been in...other than with my parents...has deliberately set about breaking me down, sucking my soul out of me. He was intentionally cruel, he had a method and was almost (if not actually) aware oof what he was doing. That iis scary.


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## LTCNurse

This site needs autocorrect!!

Anyway, as I said somewhere in this thread, this marriage lasted all of 1 year, 8 months. He was never cruel or insulting while dating. We didn't date during the week, we didn't take long trips together or even spend an entire weekend together. We did day long hikes so the drinking was not apparent. 

The thought of actually being in a relationship again actually makes me feel physicaly suffocated. The thought f anyone touching me again is unbeaerable. I don't know if it will ever be fixed-something inside me is different. This is not necessarily a problem tho? It's ok to be done with romace at 55. I can have plutonic relationships for the rest of my life. If I change my mind, I can get IC to fix my picker. At this point, Imm n ot interested in investing financially in that option.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Don't give up. When you least expect it someone will come into your life you'll want to check out and see them for a while.


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## Adelais

LTCNurse said:


> I was responding and took tooo long so I wasn't able too save my response!!! Ugh.
> 
> My picker is dfinitely broken. I don't think I can ever do a relationoship again. No relationship I have ever been in...other than with my parents...has deliberately set about breaking me down, sucking my soul out of me. He was intentionally cruel, he had a method and was almost (if not actually) aware oof what he was doing. That iis scary.


That is a good attitude to have for the time being.

Most people want to give and receive love again, even after a bad relationship. The best chance you have of being in a loving relationship is to do your own work, so you will recognize signs of unhealthy people, keep them at a distance and free up time so you will be available for that healthy man when he comes along.

Your next post of being in platonic relationships is a good one, as long as those are with females. Unfortunately, most men (and women) won't want to stay platonic for long, and then once sex gets involved, people's minds turn off to warning signs.

Do you have female friends or family to do fun things with or Hobbies that will open doors for you to meet new people?

Learning what red flags you missed, or what unhealthy traits attracted you (so you can address and fix the unhealthy parts of yourself) will come out in counseling, if you choose to go deeper.

An 18 month old relationship, from meeting the person to marriage and divorce is pretty fast. It takes at least 2 years of knowing someone to see how they deal with life stresses. People are usually on their best behavior for quite a while, but most can't keep it up for that long. Personally, if I had to start over, I would never marry anyone that I hadn't known (very well) for at least 2 years.

You should really be proud of yourself that you got out of the relationship, and didn't remain trapped after it turned bad!!


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## Adelais

CynthiaDe said:


> So maybe I have smelled that alcoholic smell before, but didn't know it had anything to do with alcohol. This is what I'm saying about the OP. If she didn't know that smell was from alcohol, she could have thought it was his soap or his laundry detergent or moldy bread or the stale smell from his house not being aired out or cleaned, etc.


Well now she knows. 

And so do you. The next time you are standing behind an unshaven, dirty, glazed eyed hobo in the supermarket and your "ridiculous sense of smell" picks up a familiar odor you have smelled on other hobos or on "that guy at work," or the construction workers hired by the guy you are having install hardwood flooring in your home, you will have a good idea what it might be.

In OP's case, there is no doubt that she was with XH many times when he drank heavily, and for some reason she missed that red flag. Two hard liquor drinks several nights in a row or more than 2 beers several nights in a row would definitely be a red flag to me. A single drink every few days would not bother me. I don't know what her acceptable limit is. I am just trying to help her identify red flags she missed, whether out of ignorance as you are claiming, or out of misplaced acceptance, so she doesn't make the same mistake again.


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## LTCNurse

Araucaria said:


> That is a good attitude to have for the time being.
> 
> 
> 
> An 18 month old relationship, from meeting the person to marriage and divorce is pretty fast.


We dated since 2011. Four and a half years before marriage.


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## LTCNurse

Araucaria said:


> Well now she knows.
> 
> And so do you. The next time you are standing behind an unshaven, dirty, glazed eyed hobo in the supermarket and your "ridiculous sense of smell" picks up a familiar odor you have smelled on other hobos or on "that guy at work," or the construction workers hired by the guy you are having install hardwood flooring in your home, you will have a good idea what it might be.
> 
> In OP's case, there is no doubt that she was with XH many times when he drank heavily, and for some reason she missed that red flag. Two hard liquor drinks several nights in a row or more than 2 beers several nights in a row would definitely be a red flag to me. A single drink every few days would not bother me. I don't know what her acceptable limit is. I am just trying to help her identify red flags she missed, whether out of ignorance as you are claiming, or out of misplaced acceptance, so she doesn't make the same mistake again.



No alcohol smell. He drinks hard for about 4 hours of the evening and starts drinking water at about 9pm before bed. Ive smelled the smell and it's not always in unkept people, for sure.


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## LTCNurse

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Don't give up. When you least expect it someone will come into your life you'll want to check out and see them for a while.


Oh, the walls that are up now he will never scale! lol

There is this guy who comes to my job (mobile xray tech) who asked me out. We talk casually when he comes to my job site but we had a phone conversation and he talked non stop! Nope, I'm out. Anyone who is so unaware that they talk non stop, who isn't interested in the other person enough to ask questions and have a mutual conversation and not a monologue...red flag. Everything is a red flag, lol. I don't even want to go out with him now because there are such better ways to spend my time than hearing non stop about a vacation he had in Cabo. Is that supposed to impress me because I want to go to work and home and that's it. I hope I get better, I really do.


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## Adelais

LTCNurse said:


> We dated since 2011. Four and a half years before marriage.


My bad. I missed that.

Will 4 hours of hard drinking every night, even if they stop and follow it with water for the rest of the evening be a red flag in the future?

It sounds like your XH learned how to reduce his hangover the next day, and that is how he kept his job performance up for 25 years!

So glad you have ended that! Good job catching that red flag on that guy who talks about himself non stop having no interest in your life or input beyond your being a captive audience!


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## LTCNurse

Araucaria said:


> My bad. I missed that.
> 
> Will 4 hours of hard drinking every night, even if they stop and follow it with water for the rest of the evening be a red flag in the future?


Sure will! 



Araucaria said:


> It sounds like your XH learned how to reduce his hangover the next day, and that is how he kept his job performance up for 25 years!


Yes, I believe that is true. But a functional alcoholic is not really functioning if they can't sustain a healthy relationship. So there's no such thing as a functional alcoholic.



Araucaria said:


> Good job catching that red flag on that guy who talks about himself non stop having no interest in your life or input beyond your being a captive audience!


Better than shooting myself in the head!:grin2:


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## BluesPower

LTCNurse said:


> This site needs autocorrect!!
> 
> Anyway, as I said somewhere in this thread, this marriage lasted all of 1 year, 8 months. He was never cruel or insulting while dating. We didn't date during the week, we didn't take long trips together or even spend an entire weekend together. We did day long hikes so the drinking was not apparent.
> 
> The thought of actually being in a relationship again actually makes me feel physicaly suffocated. The thought f anyone touching me again is unbeaerable. I don't know if it will ever be fixed-something inside me is different. This is not necessarily a problem tho? It's ok to be done with romace at 55. I can have plutonic relationships for the rest of my life. If I change my mind, I can get IC to fix my picker. At this point, Imm n ot interested in investing financially in that option.


You know, that is OK for a while, maybe even healthy. But I believe that people need love, I think it is important. 

So take your time, but try not to have this attitude for too long. But yes, fix your picker, and take your time...


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## LTCNurse

BluesPower said:


> You know, that is OK for a while, maybe even healthy. But I believe that people need love, I think it is important.
> 
> So take your time, but try not to have this attitude for too long. But yes, fix your picker, and take your time...


Thanks BP.


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## LTCNurse

Yeah, it's not gonna stop.


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## LTCNurse

Verizon helped me download an app to block ex's number. I haven't changed my number so let's hope this works and I won't have to change it.


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## LTCNurse

The app named "Hiya" does not continue to block text messages. So I got a few from ex and responded (you just cant teach some people, eh?). Ive since erased them but he said "I thought you would be my life partner, I miss you" blablabla. Our divorce will be final July 12th. So I thought...maybe he has really grown from this experience???

Ha

The next morning, I texted him. This time, his reply to anything between us was, "15 months is a long time apart."

It is really unbelievable to me that some people are so narcissistic. It is also unbelievable to me that for every narcissistic person is another person who is an incurable romantic who can only learn the hard way.:slap:


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## LTCNurse

Omg, he just now texted me again saying he would have "gone for it" in cancelling the divorce. I just don't understand someone that unbalanced and how I didn't see it. Why does anyone try to screw with someone's head this way? It is so strange.


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## Beach123

LTCNurse said:


> Omg, he just now texted me again saying he would have "gone for it" in cancelling the divorce. I just don't understand someone that unbalanced and how I didn't see it. Why does anyone try to screw with someone's head this way? It is so strange.


Why? He does it because you allow it!

Change your number!


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## LTCNurse

I've decided not to change my number because I have a daughter who has drug issues, is homeless and sometimes she calls me. She emails me, also, but what if she called me and my number is changed? That thought bothers me more than STBXH annoying me with texts.

Wednesday is D day. I don't think he will leave me alone then either. I think he didn't want to be married but somehow thinks he can woo me back into a casual relationship with him after the divorce. As I told him...he is a horny/drunk narcissitic teenage BOY (in terms of emotional development).


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## Beach123

LTCNurse said:


> I've decided not to change my number because I have a daughter who has drug issues, is homeless and sometimes she calls me. She emails me, also, but what if she called me and my number is changed? That thought bothers me more than STBXH annoying me with texts.
> 
> Wednesday is D day. I don't think he will leave me alone then either. I think he didn't want to be married but somehow thinks he can woo me back into a casual relationship with him after the divorce. As I told him...he is a horny/drunk narcissitic teenage BOY (in terms of emotional development).


So email your daughter your new number. 

Or change phone carriers to be able to really block him!


If you really wanted him blocked - nothing would be stopping you.


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## LTCNurse

Beach123 said:


> If you really wanted him blocked - nothing would be stopping you.


I'm torn up about my daughter, her last arrest, she didn't even have an address...the address listed is a parking garage.  I'm so upset that he could text me 10,ooo times and I wouldn't even care right now. when you text a mother that her daughter can just get an email of her new number, like that's easy without a home. A phone. A laptop.

{edited to remove name calling, etc.} EleGirl


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## EleGirl

Moderator warning.. 

Telling someone to "shut up", calling them "stupid", etc breaks forum rules. This is a warning. 

Please read the forum rules.

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/forum-guidelines/350914-posting-guidelines-forum-rules-2018-a.html


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## EleGirl

LTCNurse said:


> I'm torn up about my daughter, her last arrest, she didn't even have an address...the address listed is a parking garage.  I'm so upset that he could text me 10,ooo times and I wouldn't even care right now. when you text a mother that her daughter can just get an email of her new number, like that's easy without a home. A phone. A laptop.


Most phone services allow you to block individual numbers. So you could block his number and your daughter would still be able to reach you.


You could also send him a text telling him to not text you ever again except for emergencies dealing with your daughter. Then if he does text nonsense to you, have your divorce lawyer send him (or his lawyer) a cease and desist letter telling him that if he does not stop texting you, that you will consider it harassment/stalking and you will get a restraining order against them.


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## EleGirl

I have a step son who has problems similar to those your daughter has. When I had to change my phone number, I texted him my new phone number. And I texted it to him every day until he called me. That way he had it. I even texted some of his friends. (just an idea0


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## Ambyr

Are we married to the same man? Omg, we have such similar situations. Get out hun, trust me, it won't get any better if you stay. Cash out. I have been with mine for almost 20, and I am telling you from the bottom of my heart to run. He isn't going to change. It will be a repetitive rinse/wash/repeat cycle and it will take a toll on you emotionally. Please find help and get out.


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## LTCNurse

EleGirl said:


> Most phone services allow you to block individual numbers. So you could block his number and your daughter would still be able to reach you.
> 
> 
> You could also send him a text telling him to not text you ever again except for emergencies dealing with your daughter. Then if he does text nonsense to you, have your divorce lawyer send him (or his lawyer) a cease and desist letter telling him that if he does not stop texting you, that you will consider it harassment/stalking and you will get a restraining order against them.


Verizon allows a 3 month block 3 times then no more. I guess they figure most people would move on after 9 months. I've already done this.

My last text to him told him the second part (STOP texting me). I hope it works. I don't really want the extra expense of an attorney but if that's what it takes, I'll do it. I've got enough drama in my life hoping my daughter calls so leaving my phone on when I'm sleeping just to get some dumb text from a middle aged narcisstic (sp) teenage boy. 


Thanks for being polite.


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## LTCNurse

EleGirl said:


> I have a step son who has problems similar to those your daughter has. When I had to change my phone number, I texted him my new phone number. And I texted it to him every day until he called me. That way he had it. I even texted some of his friends. (just an idea0



She doesn't have a phone or a home. Or friends. Or a job. I wish I didn't care but she's my daughter. I bought her a phone about a month ago but she says she was raped and robbed. I don't know if that is true or she sold it or just lost it. I have suggested many ways for her to get back on track so her life is not as dangerous.


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## LTCNurse

Ambyr said:


> Are we married to the same man? Omg, we have such similar situations. Get out hun, trust me, it won't get any better if you stay. Cash out. I have been with mine for almost 20, and I am telling you from the bottom of my heart to run. He isn't going to change. It will be a repetitive rinse/wash/repeat cycle and it will take a toll on you emotionally. Please find help and get out.



Thanks Ambyr, I've been out for 15 months and MY divorce (I paid for it, lol) is final TODAY. Why don't you leave, Ambyr? Its never too late.


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## EleGirl

If you want to save the fees for an attorney, you might want to start by writing him a formal cease and desist letter and mail it to him registered mail with signature required. That way you will have a receipt showing that you mailed it to him. Then if he still texts you, you can try filing a harassment case against him with the police and getting a restraining order against him.

Here is a sample cease and desist letter

https://jux.law/cease-desist-harassment-intimidation-example-template-letter/


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