# Would this upset most women?



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Are most wives happy as long as they get what they want even if their husband doesn't participate? 

My wife recently divorced me after 18 years. She gave a 100 various reasons. One was my recent lack of participation in things she liked to do, but I didn't try to prevent her from doing it.

One example is our vacation to the beach last year. The beach had been her choice of vacation spots the last few years, and I had grown tired of it. We went with her sisters and their families. 

I let her know that i wasn't too excited about going, but decided we could go anyway. I payed for the trip and participated in every activity we did except go to the beach every day. Instead, I chose to just hang out at the room and relax while the beach activity was going on. 

She would ask "if" I was going each day, but never once said it would mean a lot to her if I did; she mentioned after we got back, however, that me not going ruined her vacation. 

Another example: A big thing in her family is playing board games. When we gather with her family, that is all they want to do. I participated for years, but grew a little tired of it, so I started watching tv or something while everyone played scrabble. They could play games for hours. She said my lack of participation robbed her of a great pleasure.

When I talk to other people about this they ask, "Did you tell her she couldn't do it?" My answer is no. I have spoken with women who say they are satisfied as long as their husband doesn't try to stop them from doing what they want. One woman told me, "If my husband payed for a vacation and drove me there, I wouldn't care whether he wanted to do everything or not, especially if my sisters were there." 

Would this be a big deal to those here? I realize it could be a rough area, but would it be a big, big, deal to you?


----------



## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

It depends on a woman's love language. Sounds like hers is quality time. She wants to do things WITH you. Instead, you were just sort of there, but not showing that you wanted to spend time with her. I would be upset by it big time. I get offended when my H is home and doesn't want to go somewhere with us. Or if he comes along somewhere but then sits by himself and doesn't participate. I asked him along so that we could be together, not just to be a warm body in the room. 

You also mentioned how you used to do those things but then grew tired of them. So what your relationship and happy times were founded on, suddenly became boring. But she still wanted that time to bond.


----------



## Kcrat (Mar 18, 2011)

It would be a big deal to me. If I went on vacation with my husband, (and others) it would still hurt my feelings if he was not "present" when we participated in various activities. It would feel as if something was wrong...........it would be uncomfortable and quite frankly a bit embarrassing. It almost seems as if you were wanting to make some sort of "statement" or something. To be honest, if you did not want to "join in" I am surprised to went and did not just send her to go and enjoy her family. Again, for you to not go would seem strange if it were my husband. On the flip side, did they or you ever suggest an activity that YOU would enjoy doing? On vacation, all need to be flexible and sometimes people "go their own ways" but meet up for meals, etc. Did you say there WERE things you did participate in with everyone? Sounds like you guys need to sit down well BEFORE a trip, and kind of discuss what each of you would enjoy doing, but make sure there are things (maybe something neither of you have ever done) that you can enjoy together so she does not feel uncomfortable or slighted. ALL should be able to enjoy a vacation not necessarily doing every single thing together. Good luck on your next trip


----------



## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

I do a lot of things with my husband that he likes to do and he wants me to do with him, like watching cricket. Luckily for me (or for him), I don't mind much because I end up getting interested in those things too.

I love biking, biking trips.. He doesn't like doing sports things much. Normally I don't care. I go biking by myself. It's actually better for me that way.

But sometimes the realization that he doesn't seem to want to make himself do things I like with me and for me (and this is something I do for him and with him) chafes.


----------



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

My guess is that she was having an affair and these are excuses, OR, the two of you have a long history of poor communication and/or you ignoring her needs. In the latter case, she may have been very good at meeting your needs just because you asked, without you having to explain or beg. Google "Walk Away Wife" syndrome and see if that applies at all, and be honest with yourself--no one here cares if you were or were not part of the problem. You need to care, however, b/c it will affect your future.


----------



## MariaR (Apr 4, 2011)

It depends on the person. For me, yes. I figure I'm not really into NFL, NBA, NCAA, PGA, NASCAR... you name it (yes, they're boring!). And yet, I try to have the get togethers over at our place because it's important to him. And I cook whatever menu I think everyone (mostly guys) would like. 

Now I'm a busy career woman with kids and that isn't exactly my idea of a great time, either the cooking, the yelling at the tv, or the cleaning part, but I make the best of it and participate because it's important to me to make my husband happy. Does he have to ask me if he can do it? Does he have to tell me that it's important to him or that it would mean a lot if I participated? Does he have to give me a hard time if I don't? Does this have to become one of our issues that eventually lands us either in counseling or divorce court? Not from my end.

So it would be nice if he reciprocated. He doesn't, and it actually reflects in many ways throughout our marriage mainly in the selfish attitude that says he only cares if he's happy. Sorry... but it does matter. And I'm close to following your ex-wife out the door...


----------



## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

She enjoyed your company, and spending time with you. When you didn't participate you sent the message you didn't enjoy it, therefore didn't want to spend as much time with her.

I married my husband to be with him, not live under the same roof, but go separate ways. 

It is a big deal to me. My H and I are having this same issue in our marriage. We had an argument about it last night. The result: me crying, him saying "get over it."


----------



## littlebear (Apr 9, 2011)

I agree it depends on the person. You can't categorize all women as being the same. There are things that you do that I am sure that your wife does not like to do just as there are things your wife does that you don't like to do. Part of growing closer together is showing appreciation towards one another's interests. This helps you guys get closer. Going on a trip and actually going to those events is a thumbs up! That shows you are taking interest, however, you need to push yourself further and try to get engaged in the activities that she does because it means a lot to her. Just as there are probably things that she does that mean a lot to you. Being in a relationship means showing interest in one another because in the end it will help show one another that even though you might not like the activity, you love that person so much that you are willing to do something that you don't like.


----------



## SadieBrown (Mar 16, 2011)

A lot of it depends on the person and it sounds as if you and your wife have poor communication. But here is a hint - if she was asking you every day if you were going to the beach, get a clue she wanted you to go.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> Would this be a big deal to those here? I realize it could be a rough area, but would it be a big, big, deal to you?


Ok, I'm going to be honest - I am kind of selfish, and I LIKE being with my man, NO, scratch that, I *LOVE* being with my man, and if he didn't want to do things I carefully planned (vacation choices) and hang right along with me, if I felt he was not there "in spirit", I would likely be VERY disturbed (but very unlike your wife, I would have let him know)- because *for me*, I am not the type to hang with the girls, I have no sisters, and I crave the romantic togetherness of being with my best friend/lover. 

I have a friend who does NOT at all need alot of time with her husband, she is always hanging out with her Mom & family -while he is in the garage with his buddies, it WORKS for THEM. So to each marriage , their own. Nothing wrong with that. 

If he was my husband, my family would be totally the last people I would want to drag on vacation & you'd find me hanging out with the guys in the garage. Which might have annoyed him !

So always a ++ to marry someone with the same Love Languages in these areas & good communication skills when these things are not meshing as one may like.

Maybe you would have enjoyed these vacations more so if her family was not along? Maybe you could have suggested this. Personally if I had my family or a bunch of women with me on vacation, chances are I would NOT be upset if my husband wanted to stay back as he would assume I was having fun with them. I can understand WHERE you are coming from also. She should have let you know in some manner. 

I understand your tiring of "Board games". I never cared for them much. I do it from time to time for the kids, I have to PUSH myself. Inevitably, I start yawning (especially Monopoly) , I sometimes throw myself on the floor saying "I cant take it anymore, when is this going to end?!! ". Yes, these things are terrible, but when husband wants me to join the kids, I still do it. For a short time. Probably should have continued to join in from time to time -just to show a connection with their fun.


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Do you ever suggest activities?

Maybe that is what is bugging her.


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

LonelyNLost said:


> It depends on a woman's love language. Sounds like hers is quality time. She wants to do things WITH you. Instead, you were just sort of there, but not showing that you wanted to spend time with her. I would be upset by it big time. I get offended when my H is home and doesn't want to go somewhere with us. Or if he comes along somewhere but then sits by himself and doesn't participate. I asked him along so that we could be together, not just to be a warm body in the room.
> 
> You also mentioned how you used to do those things but then grew tired of them. So what your relationship and happy times were founded on, suddenly became boring. But she still wanted that time to bond.



:iagree: That's exactly the case.

I was in that situation for more than twenty years. My "love tank" was on empty because the estranged husband never wanted to spend time doing things together.


----------



## Mike188 (Dec 29, 2009)

Do you have things you like to do? Did your wife participate in those? That's my situation. I'm expected to everything she wants to but then she doesn't like to do my stuff - ever. 

In our group of couples there is one husband that absolutely WILL NOT participate in board games. He will sit and watch something on TV and make comments about this person or that person. His wife doesn't like it, but she accepts it. It's either accept it, fight about it or divorce him. She accepts it. She does a lot of stuff that he doesn't like either and he accepts it by *****ing about it a lot. Everyone just accepts that's the way he is.

Funny thing. She like to decorate. Her house is always very nice but he *****es that they is "too much stuff" on the walls, counters, tables, bookshelves, etc. She finally got so mad that she took EVERYTHING down and put it in boxes. The house had furniture but NOTHING ELSE. It really looked weird. He finally gave in and they came to a compromise.

What's even funny is that her mom is just like her and she is just like her DH. WTH you ask? Well, we went with them and another couple to Colorado for vacation one year. They stayed at her parents cabin with her parents (retired) and we rented a cabin. Her mom had the coolest cabin decorated with all kind of neat western paraphenilia that she had collected over the years. I thought it was really cool. She thought her mom had TOO MUCH STUFF and started sneaking it out and giving it to charity. SHE WAS ACTING JUST LIKE HER HUSBAND DOES TO HER. I mentioned this to her and its like she never realized it before. People are funny.


----------



## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

This is a tough question because I see both sides of it. On the one hand it was something your wife obviously enjoyed and she wanted you to be a part of it. On the other hand spending that much time with the in-laws makes me cringe. Forget that it was doing things that you didn't like (beach, board games). But that's where communication should have come in. I've been married for 19 years and what we do with families has evolved. In the beginning it was more about them and less about us but then both of us got sick of it. Like we used to visit his family a lot and they live 550 miles away. I spoke up, we compromised and now we go less. We used to spend a lot of time in the sun, then dh spoke up and said that really wasn't his thing, we compromised and now I put him under an umbrella or go alone. 

Did you try to offer up a compromise like yes we will go and I agree to TWO beach days not all five. I'll play board games once a month not every week that kinda thing. Or did you just assume if she went alone you were off the hook?


----------



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I appreciate all the comments. I am to the point that If someone can tell me that I was the biggest idiot-husband in the world and they fully understand why my wife divorced me, I am willing to accept that. Marriage is sacred to me, so I the idea of not playing board games and going to the beach as part of why i am divorced is strange to me and most that I talk to, but if others seem to understand, it helps me understand.

I suppose poor communication was our downfall. I obviously knew she enjoyed these things, but i never knew they were that important to her. If she had made me know early on that things like this was what she needed, it could have made a difference. I didn't realize the importance because it's not my love language, and there are plenty of things that I don't get to do, but I wouldn't divorce over it. To be honest, if I had known those things were that important to her, I would have gladly done them. 

I tend to remember the commercial a few years ago that showed the family on vacation where the man was always shown sleeping while the mother and kids did their thing. I suppose I thought that was ok. 

I think these situations could be viewed two ways. It didn't seem she was very interested in what I wanted either. I suggested doing something else for vacation, such as a trip to Washington D.C. She wasn't against the idea at all, but in talking with her sisters, the beach just seemed to win out.

Also, I never knew about the "love language" thing until recently, but have come to realize that sexual intimacy is my love language. My wife didn't look at vacations as a time for sexual intimacy. It wasn't like she was having wild sex with me every night and then I refused to give her her needs by being a lazy bum. It's difficult to remember who started slacking first. Did I stop doing what she wanted, so she lost interest in sex, or did she stop wanting sex and then I slacked off on what she wanted? 

To be honest, I don't think I slacked off intentionally with a "I'll show you" attitude. Being that the beach isn't my thing anyway, for example, I suppose in the back of my mind I just didn't have the drive being that she didn't seem interested in my needs. 

This also proves to me that relationships are waaaaaaaay more complicated than they should be. We teach and learn a lot of things in school, but relationships were never mentioned; where was I supposed to learn all this stuff? It seems my "on-the-job" training didn't work out so well.

I know I have rambled.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> To be honest, I don't think I slacked off intentionally with a "I'll show you" attitude. Being that the beach isn't my thing anyway, for example, I suppose in the back of my mind I just didn't have the drive being that she didn't seem interested in my needs.


I am sure it wasn't intentional, many times it is not. 

But unfortunetely she likely also lost "the drive" for that sexual intimacy. Seriously THIS is how it works and goes astray. 2 MissMatched Love Language spouses face a battle if they remain silent, Why a little communicational CONFLICT to ALERT is absolutely VITAL -before the subtle beginnings of resentment seep in -inevitably causing ever more lack of "enthusiam" & engaging drive to please the other. 

When BOTH partners get to this point, one (your wife in this case) may be more "RESTLESS" with the whole routine, and so off her heart went. You are more Calm, more the "loner" type, so these things were less important in your eyes, and VOWS cemented in stone. 

I don't think anyone here will ever call you the Biggest Idiot Husband Southbound.  We've all learned things along the way.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

We stopped taking vacations when I refused to go with her entire d*mn family like we had for so many years before. It's not a vacation when all the siblings their wives and husbands, their kids, the mother in law and god knows who else is in tow.


----------



## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

southbound said:


> Also, I never knew about the "love language" thing until recently, but have come to realize that sexual intimacy is my love language. My wife didn't look at vacations as a time for sexual intimacy. It wasn't like she was having wild sex with me every night and then I refused to give her her needs by being a lazy bum. It's difficult to remember who started slacking first. Did I stop doing what she wanted, so she lost interest in sex, or did she stop wanting sex and then I slacked off on what she wanted?


I might be off base but I think the one who wants the sex (in my case it was me) unfortunately has to work harder to figure out the other ones needs first. Occasionally I've heard of women in my circle saying "hey I'm going to try giving my man more sex in the hopes that MY needs get met" but that never works because the intimacy isn't there, they feel resentment, etc. and sadly most men just think cool I'm getting more sex and never see the cry for what their wives really want. So the women quit in oh less than 2 weeks. Yes I've heard first hand that's about how long it lasts. So if you want sex you'd better find out what it takes for your partner to be happy and give it to them tenfold. Then you stand a very good chance of getting laid. This has been my experience with my husband that is.

As far as who started it what does it matter? Right now you can have all the hindsight in the world and it won't change a thing. 

I just in the past year learned about love language as well (again married 19 years) and I thought my dh's was physical touch and yeah I was so wrong. Mine is physical touch/quality time and I find it's rare for couples to share the same language. Oh they think they do but I'd argue that. Opposites attact. My husband's language is gifts. Gifts? Really? Could have knocked me over with a feather when I had that realization. I married someone who likes freakin gifts and I hate gifts. By the way clue for you when you meet someone new the way to find out someones language is to watch how they show love to others. Dead giveaway. My dh is a spender, loves to buy presents, loves to treat, yep gifts. I'm still stunned.


----------



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Runs Like Dog, it isn't a vacation to you, remember. I like nothing better than to be in a big group where my kids are occupied with the children of people I know and trust, and I can kick back and relax with fewer "kidbligations" on my plate. Doesn't have to be my family, but if were just mom, dad, and the kids, my entire "vacation" would be spent tending to the kids' needs and I would get no down time. Dad had figured out that if he did things in ways he knew the kids didn't like, they'd go to mom. So he would get all sorts of down time while for me, tending to kids' needs in a strange environment (not at home) is more work, not less. I tried to instill a "no one sits down to 'relax' until everyone can sit down to relax" ethos, but it didn't work. 

BUT, OP, you are not an award-winning idiot. Nor is she. It is a difficult lesson for sure. Although you want to say, "She should have told me it was important," she could always reply with a couple of things: a. "I learned pretty early that even if I told you it was important to me, you would ignore it or 'convince' me that it wasn't that important; or b. "You never asked if it was important to me." Proposition A under scores the "Walk Away Wife" syndrome. 

Either way, I know it is rough and I hope you will heal fully and find new adventures in life. Good luck.


----------



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> Runs Like Dog, it isn't a vacation to you, remember. I like nothing better than to be in a big group where my kids are occupied with the children of people I know and trust, and I can kick back and relax with fewer "kidbligations" on my plate. Doesn't have to be my family, but if were just mom, dad, and the kids, my entire "vacation" would be spent tending to the kids' needs and I would get no down time. Dad had figured out that if he did things in ways he knew the kids didn't like, they'd go to mom. So he would get all sorts of down time while for me, tending to kids' needs in a strange environment (not at home) is more work, not less. I tried to instill a "no one sits down to 'relax' until everyone can sit down to relax" ethos, but it didn't work.
> 
> BUT, OP, you are not an award-winning idiot. Nor is she. It is a difficult lesson for sure. Although you want to say, "She should have told me it was important," she could always reply with a couple of things: a. "I learned pretty early that even if I told you it was important to me, you would ignore it or 'convince' me that it wasn't that important; or b. "You never asked if it was important to me." Proposition A under scores the "Walk Away Wife" syndrome.
> 
> Either way, I know it is rough and I hope you will heal fully and find new adventures in life. Good luck.



The thing is, she got my attention and made me see how important it was to her when she started talking divorce, but she said then it was too late. I asked why she didn't let me know these things could lead to a divorce earlier in our marriage, and she said she wasn't one to use divorce as a threat. :scratchhead: What would have been wrong at some point with telling me that these things she needed could really lead to trouble if not addressed?

At that point, i told her I was willing to work and would do "anything" to make it right, and I meant it. I didn't say, I'll go 50/50, or you still have to do this, but I said I was willing to do "anything." She said at that point, however, that it was too late.

Mike188 mentioned in this thread that when things happen you either accept it, argue about it, or divorce. I feel that she went straight for the divorce and never gave it a chance. If I had still seemed selfish at this point, I could have understood, but I was willing to work things out. She seemed to think "working it out" was strange. She said there was nothing to work out at that point.

I truly am sorry if my actions made her life so miserable. I guess i was just brought up in a family where you don't always "get what you want", and that is part of life. So, I didn't realize her "wanting" something such as playing board games or vacationing could lead to such misery. To me, things like that in the big picture of life are trivial, but apparently very serious to her. 

Now that i am single and can do what i want, I realize there are several things that I enjoy that I didn't do when married, but it wasn't serious to me, it wasn't a deal breaker. To me, the financial security, healthy and happy kids, our good health, our nice home, etc. outweighed me getting to do a few things.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

magnoliagal said:


> I find it's rare for couples to share the same language. Oh they think they do but I'd argue that. Opposites attact.


I think these are 2 separate things~~ Love languages and "TEMPERMENTS" - when I hear the term Opposites Attracting, I usually think of Temperments more so, cause many times those do work well as one spouse may be lacking in one area -where the other picks up & vice versa to bring 2 together and make a nice balanced whole. 

Totally opposite temperments can have the exact same LOVE languages in the same order. I also think it is rare, but it happens. Me & my husband are like that. Totally opposite in Temperments though. Me being the expressive Extrovert, more aggressive & excitable, Him being the more quiet Introvert, more passive & calm. 

I did a thread on these Love languages here >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-languages-how-does-affect-your-marraige.html 

Yeah, Gifts is a RARE one for guys! and true, we usually Do what we want in return. That comes free flowing for us. 


And here is a thread on Opposites Attracting (about the Temperments) -with some links to take tests to see what you are & your spouse. >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/19081-opposite-attract.html


----------



## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

southbound said:


> To me, things like that in the big picture of life are trivial, but apparently very serious to her.
> 
> Now that i am single and can do what i want, I realize there are several things that I enjoy that I didn't do when married, but it wasn't serious to me, it wasn't a deal breaker. To me, the financial security, healthy and happy kids, our good health, our nice home, etc. outweighed me getting to do a few things.


Women are complicated that's for sure. You sound like my husband. It would take a lot for things to be a deal breaker for him.

I've got a friend now who has been married for 10 years. She's been trying to get her husband's attention (think hints) that's she's not thrilled with him. He doesn't like to do anything she does (she's extraverted and he's VERY introverted). He says no to all her requests. My dh and I both predict unless he wises up once she's financially able to support herself and/or her kids are grown she will eventually divorce him. He will likely claim he had no idea....


----------



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Women are complicated that's for sure. You sound like my husband. It would take a lot for things to be a deal breaker for him...


I've had other women also tell me that women are complicated. That's why I feel this whole relationship thing is just too complicated for me and that I would be better off staying single. Who knows what I might get into next time!

As for taking a lot to be a deal breaker, nothing short of cheating or abuse would be a deal breaker for me. I think it's because I take the commitment of marriage very seriously. To me, it trivializes marriage to divorce without exhausting yourself to work it out. It seems weird that we stay together through sickness and health till death do us part, but I'll leave if you don't play games with me and go to the beach.

I have discovered in this divorce how one life has such an impact on so many other things. It's not like she just opened the door, I was gone, and everything else went on as usual, but it affects so much else.

I know there are marriages where the kids are in so much misery, they actually get relief with a divorce, but this wasn't the case here. My kids were as puzzled and crushed as I was, but apparently that didn't matter to my x. 

I could go through a lot of pain and disgust to know that my kids are enjoying themselves. Their happiness would work to ease my unhappiness with other issues. I can't believe my wife was so miserable and disgusted that she had to go and that nothing could be worked out, especially after acting so happy all those years.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

RIGHT, it's not a vacation to me. Actually they would all fight a lot, openly, loudly. So it was never a vacation for anyone either. Plus with 9 or 10 kids there seemed to always be someone who was sick or throwing up. 

But that's my point. Some people want a calm quiet vacation. Not a madhouse.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> As for taking a lot to be a deal breaker, nothing short of cheating or abuse would be a deal breaker for me. I think it's because I take the commitment of marriage very seriously. To me, it trivializes marriage to divorce without exhausting yourself to work it out. It seems weird that we stay together through sickness and health till death do us part, but I'll leave if you don't play games with me and go to the beach.


 I seriously doubt it was just that. More was brewing under the surface, and some of it could have just been ALL HER. Sometimes women get depressed & they can't even explain why! And some leave what they thought was a bad marraige only to find out their is nothing better out there. Some regret it. 

I totally agree about the "*exhausting yourself to work it out*" part , this was skipped from your wife. I believe it is the responsibiity of the UNHAPPY spouse is SPEAK UP, make an ISSUE Loud & clear - so things have an opportunity to be overcome. 

Sadly though, many do this very thing , women and men, and still they keep coming up empty handed , hitting a brick wall, no common ground, no passion, resentment continues. I think alot of us have DEAL BREAKERS and yes, many have a longer list than yours SouthBound. 

I personally would not be able to remain in an unhappy / unfullfilling marraige. I am just too darn Selfish. I can admit it ! But I also give ALOT -so I expect alot in return. 

I would blow the Vows to the wind (after a time of exhusting), get a divorce & be on a mission to find someone more compitable. 

Here is an interesting thread about "Deal Breakers" Trenton Started a while back - http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/18223-what-your-deal-breakers-women.html


----------



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I seriously doubt it was just that. More was brewing under the surface, and some of it could have just been ALL HER. Sometimes women get depressed & they can't even explain why! And some leave what they thought was a bad marraige only to find out their is nothing better out there. Some regret it. l


Oh no, it wasn't just this. She gave a hundred reasons, but none were any more serious than these. I just like to pick a few reasons that she gave sometimes, analyze them, get feedback from others, and try to figure things out. 

Even though there is legitimacy in the reasons she gave, I think she was depressed, didn't know why, and blamed it on the things she wasn't happy with in the marriage. She would never have done this a few years ago.

It's not that I think I am such a great catch, but I think she and I were a better match than she currently wants to realize, and I think she will regret it some day, because I think the person she was prior to a few months ago is the "real" her. Even though I didn't meet the needs that she currently thinks are the most important, I was good to her in many other ways. I think she will recognize that some day, but I don't know if she will admit it.


----------



## MariaR (Apr 4, 2011)

I guess the hard part for many women is that you didn't show you cared enough DURING the marriage. You waited until you were hit over the head with divorce. When these issues come up, big and small, you shouldn't take it for granted that if the other person had the same "commitment" to marriage then she should just settle.

Marriage is absolutely a negotiation. Not everything needs to be 50/50, but where something is very important to one person you shouldn't have to be hit over the head with threats, begging, etc. Just do it because it makes the other person happy. I think if more marriages were of this mindset we'd have a lot less divorce going on.

And yeah, I'm on my 2nd marriage and it's sad that all of these stories just sound way too familiar...


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> I was good to her in many other ways. I think she will recognize that some day, but I don't know if she will admit it.


And you know what, some people are just too darn "PROUD" to admit they were wrong/they made a mistake - they would willingly choose hidden emotional suffering than take a hit to their halo before someone they hurt, not wanting to appear weak and vulnerable. 

Personally I feel that is a form of insanity, but it happens all the time and in many relationships where one or both have not learned to communicate well.


----------



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

MariaR said:


> I guess the hard part for many women is that you didn't show you cared enough DURING the marriage. You waited until you were hit over the head with divorce. When these issues come up, big and small, you shouldn't take it for granted that if the other person had the same "commitment" to marriage then she should just settle.
> 
> Marriage is absolutely a negotiation. Not everything needs to be 50/50, but where something is very important to one person you shouldn't have to be hit over the head with threats, begging, etc. Just do it because it makes the other person happy. I think if more marriages were of this mindset we'd have a lot less divorce going on.
> 
> And yeah, I'm on my 2nd marriage and it's sad that all of these stories just sound way too familiar...


I'm curious, did your first marriage end for similar reasons that I listed, and are you happy in your second marriage?


----------



## AvaTara539 (Apr 10, 2011)

If she gives you your time regularly to pursue your own interests why not indulge her on the rare beach visit or board game night?


----------



## MariaR (Apr 4, 2011)

southbound said:


> I'm curious, did your first marriage end for similar reasons that I listed, and are you happy in your second marriage?


That's a really good question. In my 1st marriage it was about addiction issues. I left because things were just too damaged to fix. I went into my 2nd marriage knowing how much I was capable of giving. I felt all the while I was giving 100%... not that I'm perfect, but what mattered to him and what made him happy was important to me. Regardless of whether I wanted to actually do those things, found them boring, etc. Unfortunately what made me happy didn't matter to him... unless they also happened to fit into what made him happy. So it's become very one-sided.

I'm at a fork in the road with my 2nd marriage. I shudder at the thought that I'm one of those people that just can't stay married. I had kids before this marriage and am so blessed that they all turned out great. We have one together now and it's breaking my heart the thought of the alternative.

What's interesting though is that a year ago I "hit him over the head" and wanted to kick him out for his selfish ways... because they always tended to roll in the gray areas. He begged and pleaded, and said I was the most important thing in the world to him. But I had told him many times before, not in a nagging way, but just that these are important to me and he needed to show the effort. A year later and yeah, he's changed... in some ways... but I know he's now resentful that who he felt he was before wasn't good enough. But it hurts because I gave him a wife that I felt he deserved. And he didn't love me enough to give me the same. At least that's the feeling that I'm left with.

When we set our foundations in business and work we're usually pretty careful that details are tended to and our attentions are focused in the areas that need to be focused on. Because things can easily fall apart. Somehow in a marriage we all settle in and don't feel the same attention to detail is needed.

It's not about the grass is greener. But can you honestly say that living with resentment and bitterness that's built up over years is worth it... not just for today but for 30 years from today? Because that's really what marriage is about.

Unfortunately for me, my heart has experienced so much hurt that I'm afraid it's too damaged to fix as well.


----------



## MariaR (Apr 4, 2011)

btw southbound, I also think it's important to do things independently. It's not about being tied together constantly, but at some point you have build on the things that are going to keep you connected. And if it's Monopoly, vacation with in-laws, etc. (both of which I find boring too!)... I think it was worth the investment.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to make you feel worse. But hopefully we all learn from our mistakes so that we can go on and live a truly happy life.


----------



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

MariaR said:


> btw southbound, I also think it's important to do things independently. It's not about being tied together constantly, but at some point you have build on the things that are going to keep you connected. And if it's Monopoly, vacation with in-laws, etc. (both of which I find boring too!)... I think it was worth the investment.
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't mean to make you feel worse. But hopefully we all learn from our mistakes so that we can go on and live a truly happy life.


You didn't make me feel worse, I appreciate your view and advice. It would be too easy to just say I'm the good guy, she's the bad guy, and let it go. I want some "real" understanding. I'm trying to understand so I can truly learn from this situation.

The thing that puzzles me the most is why 18 years was the right time for her to divorce. I think that is a big investment just to flush down the toilet without giving it her all. If things were so bad, how did she stand it that long? Why did everyone around her think she was the happiest woman on earth?

I suppose one personality characteristic of mine that perhaps lead to our downfall is the fact that I feel i am in charge of my own happiness; I don't look for others to make me happy. I suppose somewhere in my mind I think everyone is like this, but they are not. If I enjoyed something that she didn't, I could do it myself and it be no big deal. For example, I could actually go to the movies by myself and enjoy it if I was really interested in the movie. That characteristic helps greatly now that I am single, but I guess it wasn't so good when married.


----------



## MariaR (Apr 4, 2011)

18 years is a long time. Maybe she just couldn't do it anymore. We all go into self-preservation mode - smile when we're not exactly happy at the moment, making things ok for everyone else.

Maybe she felt like she did give it her all. Maybe she felt like you didn't. I'm sorry, again, since I know that's kind of hurtful to say. But like I said in my post, the feeling that I'm left with is that my husband didn't love me enough. I know it's not the truth, but it's how I translate the hurt that I feel and that he's caused. Maybe it's the same for your wife.


----------



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

MariaR said:


> 18 years is a long time. Maybe she just couldn't do it anymore. We all go into self-preservation mode - smile when we're not exactly happy at the moment, making things ok for everyone else.
> 
> Maybe she felt like she did give it her all. Maybe she felt like you didn't. I'm sorry, again, since I know that's kind of hurtful to say. But like I said in my post, the feeling that I'm left with is that my husband didn't love me enough. I know it's not the truth, but it's how I translate the hurt that I feel and that he's caused. Maybe it's the same for your wife.


I think she did feel she gave it her all and I didn't, I guess we just have different definitions of that. Another weird part is that I don't think I'm that bad of a guy. I didn't cheat, I wasn't abusive, I wasn't a lazy bum, I helped out, and I am a good father. I can't find a lot to hang my head about when I go out in public, but apparently my wife couldn't take anymore and needed a divorce.:scratchhead:


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> I suppose one personality characteristic of mine that perhaps lead to our downfall is the fact that I feel i am in charge of my own happiness; I don't look for others to make me happy. *I suppose somewhere in my mind I think everyone is like this, but they are not.* If I enjoyed something that she didn't, I could do it myself and it be no big deal. For example, I could actually go to the movies by myself and enjoy it if I was really interested in the movie. That characteristic helps greatly now that I am single, but I guess it wasn't so good when married.


What I outlined in red , I think is very true.

Speaking of movies, I would also not want to go alone, that would bother me if I was married. Now plenty of times we have went together & split up with the kids cause I am not into a Rated G flick, so he takes them to the cartoon feature while I choose to go see the Romance (sitting alone wishing he was there). This didn't bother me at all, I still felt he was "there" in spirit and it was more of a "putting our kids 1st" kinda thing. 

BUT if we didn't have the kids to break us up, and he just would rather hang out at home instead of accompanying me, this just wouldnt sit well with me- after a time. I would likely be off trying to find friends to come along -cause I don't like doing things alone, I want someone to share them with -or worse yet, start wondering why my husband doesn't want to do these things with me anymore. 

Then add -if your wife had married friends who did everything together, maybe she started to question why her marriage wasn't like this (anymore), why so & so's husband jumped everytime she wanted to go somewhere. In your defense Southbound - Of coarse your wife may not realize or consider maybe So & So also jumped in the bedroom for her man too --for him to react so favoably to her wishes, but still -some of us only want to see what WE WANT TO SEE never calling ourselves into question. 


I don't think feeling this way makes me not happy "within myself" (I feel I have that going on) BUT I can see where a wife might start questioning the husband's desire to be with her, his passion to make her happy , simple enjoyment of her company (especially if she is a "Quality Time" Love language woman) and eventually be CRAVING more "Ompphhh" in the relationship.

I can see where one may slowly succom to emotionally depressive thoughts over such things IF she doesn't talk about it & lets it "build" in her mind.


----------



## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

LonelyNLost said:


> It depends on a woman's love language. Sounds like hers is quality time. She wants to do things WITH you. Instead, you were just sort of there, but not showing that you wanted to spend time with her. I would be upset by it big time. I get offended when my H is home and doesn't want to go somewhere with us. Or if he comes along somewhere but then sits by himself and doesn't participate. I asked him along so that we could be together, not just to be a warm body in the room.
> 
> You also mentioned how you used to do those things but then grew tired of them. So what your relationship and happy times were founded on, suddenly became boring. But she still wanted that time to bond.


OK, but was she doing things HE liked to do? I mean, I cannot imagine being married long term and not KNOWING my hubby doesn't prefer the beach, or doesn't prefer board games.


----------



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

lisa3girls said:


> OK, but was she doing things HE liked to do? I mean, I cannot imagine being married long term and not KNOWING my hubby doesn't prefer the beach, or doesn't prefer board games.


True. She says I have changed, but I don't think I have made uncommon changes considering it has been 18 years. I played games in the early years, but i never pretended it was "my thing." As 18 years went along and I got older, it just got harder and harder to do it all the time, and she knew that. I played board games when i was in my 20s, but what is weird about a 43 year old man having grown out of playing board games?

Also, I have never been a water person. I never did pools or any kind of water activity if i had a choice. 

I think after 18 years we were just in a rut and hadn't given our relationship the tune-up it needed. She apparently would rather have bailed out than tuned up. 

I don't think we had any problems that we couldn't have worked through had she wanted to.


----------

