# His needs, her needs, not good enough...



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Never thought I would have to ask for assistance again, but here it is... guess nothing good last forever ey?

My girlfriend and I have reached the apex of a persistent issue that has plagued us for quite some time. In the beginning we were very happy, still had our stupid fights but always recovered and stronger. We grew closer and closer and had already made plans for the future. She was indeed what I had thought to be my soulmate, and I could say I actually fell in love with her, which was a big thing for me as I never had such a surge of vulnerability. We didn't find the need for space in our relationship and perhaps that's what led to all this as we were completely transparent and hid nothing and did everything we could do - together. We became very much a big part of each other's lives and our respective families.

There have been several major changes in my life since she came along, my life found new purpose and direction, I quit smoking and became healthier, everything was good, people were so happy - and sometimes jealous - for us. However, things have changed - apparently I had changed, and she mentions I've become quite different. Less affectionate, I start less topics, I make less effort, etc etc. So I acknowledged how she felt, tried to improve, but it didn't work. 

It's come to the point that I wonder if I'm even compatible any longer with her needs. She requires lots of affection, I am colder by nature, and I'm not sure I can change that. She starts alot of topics, I'm more of a listener and a thinker. She does make alot of effort and this is one thing we argue about because I feel she doesn't acknowledge the effort I put into the relationship and vice versa. When I bring up what I do to for her, she says it's "expected". Which does make me wonder if I had spoiled her in our early days. I am also INTJ, and she is ESFJ. 

All, and I mean ALL of our fights are over the little things, but it's those little things isn't it? I failed to prioritise her enough several times, especially when I'm focused on a particular task, hobby or conversation. Each time we fight I harden more and more and I've begun to resent her for refusing to listen to anything I say as any thing she considers "excuses" and accuses me of lies in which I have never betrayed her trust in the past. 
Just makes me wonder why should I even bother. She tells me she's happy then turns around and complains unexpectedly and several times she's mentioned breaking up to the point that now I'm the one who has initiated a break for a few days. She's not taking this well, and currently quite upset as you can imagine that I'm capable for it but I reckon it's time to take a break, and re-access the situation.

She's also quite jealous which I never understood when it comes to me as I'm an aging fool in my 30s while she's a stunning beauty in her 20s, and she gets attention ALL the time, which I've already come to terms with. She'll find someone within a blink of an eye while for me I'm ready to retire after finally finding someone this special especially as it didn't work despite my best efforts. I don't know if I had changed, my cat was taken from me last year which admittedly did make me quite cold perhaps but I don't know. Did I spoil her too much? Am I just not relationship let alone marriage material? Am I just not good enough for her and would she just be happier with someone more compatible and can satisfy her needs? 

Either way, I need a make a decision soon, I gave my word.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

She’s very young. She will continue to become restless. Do you remember the huge amount of energy and willingness to take absolute risks at that age? Do you remember how it was literally impossible to imagine the future beyond a couple of years?

I don’t want to say this but if you lock her down now, you’ll most likely be sorry later. Because young people don’t respond well to being locked down and will wiggle out of it even if they are the ones who appear jealous.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I remember all of the discussion regarding your age difference. More specifically, her very young age. Wasn't she still technically a teenager when you started dating?

People change a lot from their early twenties. Who you want to be with in your early twenties is often different than who you want to be with in your late twenties. The concern is that she could be too young to make and keep to a lifelong commitment at such a young age. Because of all of the personality changes that happen as one matures into adulthood.

Your right match will think you are terrific just as you are. Not saying partners should not put effort into a relationship... But not every woman will need as much as your girlfriend does.

Some of that more measured view of life and relationships comes with maturity. Some is just personality type.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> She’s very young. She will continue to become restless. Do you remember the huge amount of energy and willingness to take absolute risks at that age? Do you remember how it was literally impossible to imagine the future beyond a couple of years?
> 
> I don’t want to say this but if you lock her down now, you’ll most likely be sorry later. Because young people don’t respond well to being locked down and will wiggle out of it even if they are the ones who appear jealous.


Our issues don't reflect a typical couple of a similar age gap. If anyone has been pushing for the ball and chain it has been her. However her age does make me wonder though, as she has few relationships to compare me with, all short term flings in her adolescence. This is her first long term relationship and perhaps she misses the honeymoon phase. Only way I can give her that again is to let her go. 

Yet, I guess I want there to be a solution, because I know the road ahead if there isn't one. With all the help I've sought over the years on this forum, this is perhaps the time I need it the most.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Livvie said:


> Some of that more measured view of life and relationships comes with maturity. Some is just personality type.


Neither of which there seems to be a solution for, that allows us to be together. Our personality types are opposites in most ways, we found synergy in it - until we don't, and it all falls apart.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > Some of that more measured view of life and relationships comes with maturity. Some is just personality type.
> ...


It really does suck. I'm sorry. How long have you been together? The older I get I really do think the 2 year rule is pretty on point... If there are incompatibilities they tend to show up after this timeframe.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

RandomDude said:


> Neither of which there seems to be a solution for, that allows us to be together. Our personality types are opposites in most ways, we found synergy in it - until we don't, and it all falls apart.


 It sounds like you already know the score. The easy limerent part of the relationship is waning and now the real compatibility starts to really matter, and unfortunately, it sounds like it's not there due to her immaturity.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Livvie said:


> It really does suck. I'm sorry. How long have you been together? The older I get I really do think the 2 year rule is pretty on point... If there are incompatibilities they tend to show up after this timeframe.


Nearly one and half years, so sadly, did not make it to two years.



Rubix Cubed said:


> It sounds like you already know the score. The easy limerent part of the relationship is waning and now the real compatibility starts to really matter, and unfortunately, it sounds like it's not there due to her immaturity.


Well, I can't say it's due to that alone if it's even due to that at all as in many ways she is much more mature than I. Maybe not immaturity, inexperience, perhaps the better word.

A part of me already knows the score and is being prepared. The other part of me dares to hope. The relationship has been very intense to the point that many investments have been made, financially, emotionally and socially. It would not be over quick, but true, it's nothing compared to marital breakdown. Yet this time, despite no marriage, I've invested more.

Just wish there is a solution.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

RandomDude said:


> thing for me as I never had such a surge of *vulnerability*. We didn't find the need for space in our relationship and perhaps that's what led to all this as we were completely transparent and hid nothing and did everything we could do - together. We became very much a big part of each other's lives and our respective families.
> 
> There have been several major changes in my life since she came along, my life found new purpose and direction, I quit smoking and became healthier, everything was good, people were so happy - and sometimes jealous - for us. However, things have changed - apparently I had changed, and she mentions I've become quite different. Less affectionate, I start less topics, I make less effort, etc etc. So I acknowledged how she felt, tried to improve, but it didn't work.
> 
> ...


This is a life changing crisis--take it slowly. We change as we mature, it's maturity more than age. (My dad was much older than my mom and they remained 'sickenly' in love always.)

You are especially scared because you have allowed yourself to be vulnerable? Your life improvements like better health are for both of y'all--don't expect her to appreciate them. Are you withholding affection because you are scared? When you said 'aging fool in my 30's', I (your grandma's age) spit up my sweet tea! It is strange that she expects you to change your personality. It is more than this--have you withdrawn from her because things are feeling shaky? Your confidence as a man is being attacked?

You are second guessing the way you both have grown in relationship. Who has done the most changing? Being flexible is one thing, being uncomfortable with your life is another. Her threats for breaking up--are her expectations/requirements valid or not? This is not a good place to be--but it seems to be a necessary place as a foundation for the future. 

You have given excellent advice for a long time here. Hope you find helpful thoughts now.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

sunsetmist said:


> This is a life changing crisis--take it slowly. We change as we mature, it's maturity more than age. (My dad was much older than my mom and they remained 'sickenly' in love always.)
> 
> You are especially scared because you have allowed yourself to be vulnerable? Your life improvements like better health are for both of y'all--don't expect her to appreciate them. Are you withholding affection because you are scared? When you said 'aging fool in my 30's', I (your grandma's age) spit up my sweet tea! It is strange that she expects you to change your personality. It is more than this--have you withdrawn from her because things are feeling shaky? Your confidence as a man is being attacked?
> 
> ...


She has been the first to make me truly vulnerable again since my childhood, and hence why I mentioned it, as for me she's worth trying to find a solution for. However if there's no solution when the weekend is over unfortunately the decision will be to let her go which I'm hoping to avoid. Sadly, it's not something I can take slowly as she lacks patience in this and wants an answer on what we are to do. Neither of us have a solution for this crisis as of yet.

She had made suggestions to break up in the past but today's proposal is actually mine - due to the lack of solutions. Today she was much more interested in getting me to make promises which I don't make unless I know I can keep them and considering I've been apparently failing lately at meeting her expectations I've proposed the break. She was understandably upset but it needed to be done.

I hardened with her for much more primal instincts; anger. When there is a misunderstanding, which there were bound to be, no matter what I say it seems she immediately makes up her mind and I end up wasting my breath. I do not admit fault unless it's true, which I wonder if this makes me overly arrogant or if this the correct approach. For example, if I made the mistake of ending a text conversation with a closed statement and not an open statement; like "I know" instead of "I know, what do you think?" or some such she accuses me using it as an example of how I don't talk to her anymore and how she's always talking and making topics, I get irritated at her starting an issue over what I consider so miniscule yet for her it's a sign that the earth will shatter.

Quite frankly I've forgotten the vast majority of the other incidents as they are quite stupid (to me) but each built up over time and her general consensus is that I make less effort and show less affection. I've tried to compromise by leaving mental notes to message her appropriately but it's not been enough. I've also tried to show more affection but my methods of affection are more, playful than romantic. I'd rather a nose rub, a tickle, and a cuddle, where as she would rather lots of kisses. Come to think of it, this particular problem with intimacy language isn't new - based on past partners.

Please note though that despite our fights in several ways she DOES truly treat me like a king. We 'fight' over who pays as she always wants to get me stuff, if I didn't have lunch sometimes she orders it remotely through uber and surprises me. She gives me wakeup calls, she even dresses me and hates it when I try to reject her. I try to reciprocate as best I can but perhaps I do fall short, my contributions like making time for her, sparing no expense when it comes to what would please her or being a chaffeur without exceptions or massages (which she doesn't even like) or showing care for her when she's ill perhaps everything is simply as she said - "expected". Perhaps it's the extra mile she desires, like when I show up unexpectedly when she missed me.

But frankly, I'm not so sure I can live with the extra mile as a requirement and have days ruined if I fail.

As for who has changed the most, well, it's a hard question to answer. For me she has been quite consistent, her expectations were high, and initially I met them according to her but I have failed in them nowadays. I've also opened up, and maybe I've gone the reverse direction recently... or maybe just today. I'm quite numb right now.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Do you really want assistance? The tenor of your post makes me think you feel worn out, pretty much exhausted. So, I'm questioning if you're up for assistance because I don't believe you posting here is all that is required. You know the board and you've been around this bend since 2010, so why come here for one-sided responses based on your one-sided point of view and expect to get any real assistance? So I'm thinking you're just not up for debate but posted out of urgency. Maybe you really just wanted validation. Or maybe, if you're just exhausted, then you're looking for somebody to tell you to end it already because that would be easier. Am I getting warm? LOL

But if you truly want assistance, then bring your girl here and let her post her side of things so the members have details and her point of view to examine and consider. If you're not up for it soon, then talk to her tomorrow to let her know you'd like her to put her thoughts and complaints out here in a few a days or so. You extend your decision deadline that way.

To maintain your privacy, you don't have to tell her you are a member here. Just have her register her own account, and you and she can post in the thread that she starts, each of you offering your own side of the situation. If she registers as "Molly" for example, then you can post in her thread identifying yourself as "Molly's Man". I don't think that violates any forum rules since you will not be registering a duplicate account. Do check it out though.

People come here solo with their problems or complaints or whatever, but I don't understand it from a seasoned veteran. You're giving people you are somewhat familiar with more of a voice in your decision-making you're giving your girlfriend. As result, you received general assessments from people who don't know her. She deserves a chance unless you prefer not to give her one.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

RandomDude said:


> ...I hardened with her for much more primal instincts; anger. .
> 
> I've also tried to show more affection but my methods of affection are more, playful than romantic. I'd rather a nose rub, a tickle, and a cuddle, where as she would rather lots of kisses. Come to think of it, this particular problem with intimacy language isn't new - based on past partners.
> 
> ...


I love your ways of showing affection--sorry she only wants kisses--I think intimacy is a closeness of the spirit, not just kisses.

The anger--from both of you-- is monumental. Poor communication--refusal to listen--is frustrating, draining. 

There has been so much good. Would couples counseling be appropriate?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Neither of which there seems to be a solution for, that allows us to be together. *Our personality types are opposites in most ways,* we found synergy in it - until we don't, and it all falls apart.


So are mine and my husbands, we are polar opposites in almost everything lol. The difference in our case I honestly feel is our ages. We both have more life experience and our age gap is closer than yours - he's only 5 years older than me.

Nothing wrong with spoiling her, my husband spoilt me when we were dating, still does. 

I'm wondering what's changed in you, that you no longer want to meet her needs? At least that's how it seems? I could be reading that totally wrong...have the two of you ever sat down and asked each other exactly what the other needs from you? It's not all about her - I'm sure you have needs that she's not meeting either, it's a two way street after all.

Meanwhile, I'm conscious of the fact that there is a young woman out there distraught at the moment, and having a terrible weekend. The fact that you're so undecided shows that you're not really all in anymore, so you would be far kinder to end it now. Were I in her shoes, when asked for space I would have ended it right then and there.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

You say that her expectations were high in the early days and you met them. 
So what’s changed? Have you “retired” into the settled life and no longer work on the relationship or has her expectations increased thereby setting you up for failure. 
You can’t be someone you’re not, at least not for very long. If you have changed then this is salvageable, if this is how you really are and she wants changes then it’s a sunk cost fallacy. 
Despite what I’m reading I think you had this woman on a pedestal and unfortunately with this behavior what was a pleasant surprise yesterday is your duty today. In other words you have to keep doing more and more to get the same result. 
I wish you luck.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> Our issues don't reflect a typical couple of a similar age gap. If anyone has been pushing for the ball and chain it has been her. However her age does make me wonder though, as she has few relationships to compare me with, all short term flings in her adolescence. This is her first long term relationship and perhaps she misses the honeymoon phase. Only way I can give her that again is to let her go.
> 
> Yet, I guess I want there to be a solution, because I know the road ahead if there isn't one. With all the help I've sought over the years on this forum, this is perhaps the time I need it the most.


There is a solution. The reason she starts all those arguments, is because she's begging for attention, even if it's negative. Not getting her emotional needs met would also makes her more irritable in general, more apt to start fights.

I'm an INFJ too, but that doesn't mean we can't be affectionate. You probably already know what, specifically, she wants from you. Find a way to make it happen. If she's like most women, she needs affection, and intimate conversation. So when you're together, cuddle. Rather than sit separately, sit with her, and have as much physical contact as casually possible. Rather than talk from across the room, hold her. It takes almost zero effort, just talking to her from a different spot in the room. If she wants to kiss a lot, then is there a reason why would that be difficult to arrange?

If you're not one for conversation, then conversing intimately with her will be more of a challenge. But as an INTJ, deep and meaningful conversation with people close to us is typically our thing. Engage her in that. Women will talk to you without much prompting if something is on their heart and mind. All you have to do is express that you care, and listen. 

In closing, I'd encourage you to not give up. I value the input of those on these boards, but it's almost always negative. "Forget her", "Move on", "Plenty of fish out there, don't waste your time". If this woman means something to you, and you want to be with her, then fight for her. All relationships have problems. Don't let nay-sayers get in your ear, and convince you that you're doomed to fail, or better off apart. 

She treats you like a king, you care about her, and trust her enough to let her see your soul. That means something, don't throw that away. Don't make the mistake of taking her for granted, only realizing how much she meant to you after she's gone. Ask her how you can do better, and do it. All she wants is for you to show her that you care.

What promises has she asked you to make?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

IIRC, she was 18 when you met her so she's probably around 20 now? Still very young obviously but very much a giver from the beginning. You were beyond giddy when you met her (I remember your posts). And you very likely spoiled her in all the ways she enjoyed (time, attention, affection, and whatever other things her love languages are) so her expectations were that life would always be that way. And now it's not exactly that way because the level she expects is not something that comes naturally to you as those things she does for you comes to her. The question is can the two of you compromise about this? If you both can, then you have a chance. If not, then over time resentment (by one or both of you) will doom this.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

After reading your posts again, I will say that you sound mopey. Your girlfriend has normal needs and expectations. All she wants is for you to care about her, and make an effort to show her that. Snap out of whatever this "johnny rain cloud" business is that you've got going on, and be a better man. A more caring man. If you screw this up, you're going to regret it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

BioFury said:


> After reading your posts again, I will say that you sound mopey. Your girlfriend has normal needs and expectations. All she wants is for you to care about her, and make an effort to show her that. Snap out of whatever this "johnny rain cloud" business is that you've got going on, and be a better man. A more caring man. If you screw this up, you're going to regret it.


I disagree here. To me, it sounds like the girlfriend has some pretty intense expectations. And if he doesn't meet those intense expectations, he's made out to be a failure.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

It sounds like she has very rigid views of what her life and partner should be like. It sounds like she's trying to shape you into what she wants out of a partner rather than appreciating you for who you are. I don't think her requests are necessarily out of line, but she does seem very uncompromising about them. I'm sure you also have preferences of what a perfect partner should do or say, but it sounds like you're more flexible with those things.

A lot of this is probably because she's young and hasn't had enough adult relationships to realize that she can't call all the shots. If she had had more relationships, she probably would have experienced several breakups already if she tried to be too controlling. You're not a dog to be trained to her preference. You're an independent person with your own needs and desires. It sounds like you may have been too compromising already, which has allowed her to think her behavior is okay. I suspect that unless you push back and start making your own demands, she will continue to try to shape you into what she wants.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Livvie said:


> I disagree here. To me, it sounds like the girlfriend has some pretty intense expectations. And if he doesn't meet those intense expectations, he's made out to be a failure.


He stated that he fulfilled her needs in the beginning of their relationship just fine. It didn't required Herculean effort then, and I see no reason why it would now. RD has just changed, become more... gloomy. Sad. Withdrawn. And is distancing himself from the person he loves as a result.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Openminded said:


> IIRC, she was 18 when you met her so she's probably around 20 now? Still very young obviously but very much a giver from the beginning. You were beyond giddy when you met her (I remember your posts). And you very likely spoiled her in all the ways she enjoyed (time, attention, affection, and whatever other things her love languages are) so her expectations were that life would always be that way. And now it's not exactly that way because the level she expects is not something that comes naturally to you as those things she does for you comes to her. The question is can the two of you compromise about this? If you both can, then you have a chance. If not, then over time resentment (by one or both of you) will doom this.





BioFury said:


> After reading your posts again, I will say that you sound mopey. Your girlfriend has normal needs and expectations. All she wants is for you to care about her, and make an effort to show her that. Snap out of whatever this "johnny rain cloud" business is that you've got going on, and be a better man. A more caring man. If you screw this up, you're going to regret it.





Livvie said:


> I disagree here. To me, it sounds like the girlfriend has some pretty intense expectations. And if he doesn't meet those intense expectations, he's made out to be a failure.





BioFury said:


> He stated that he fulfilled her needs in the beginning of their relationship just fine. It didn't required Herculean effort then, and I see no reason why it would now. RD has just changed, become more... gloomy. Sad. Withdrawn. And is distancing himself from the person he loves as a result.


The issue is that we have tried to rectify this. I didn't ask her to compromise her standards but at least be more understanding and non-accusatory.

I don't recall ever being super affectionate at the start, but in our early days yes, when there were many new things to explore together things were great, she felt more loved and enjoyed the effort I spent in making plans, outings, trips, etc. After several thousands down the drain both ways and our financial plans for the future being placed on hold we adopted a more... homey lifestyle which we both agreed to. Netflix and chill.

Perhaps this is why she felt things change, as perhaps even though my affection was constant and nothing super, she was distracted in other ways of affection where nowadays I'm making plans for our future which is less romantic... and which is currently on hold due to issues with her family. 

The fights are becoming quite irritating yes and I'm tired of having days ruined over stupid sh-t, withdrawing as a result but then when we have a stretch of no dramas and just bliss I'm back to normal again - mostly - and then another stupid fight and accusations, I withdraw again... then cycle repeats. I should be used to the drama based on past relationships but in this one I can't stand it because it actually gets me into an emotional bind and my day actually gets ruined. 

Not to mention the way she complains about it makes me feel like I'm not good enough using words like "always" and "never" and I've always questioned my cradle robber status and I'll only want to stay if I'm good for her but if she carries on like this despite telling me she loves me and yadda yadda then I'm obviously not worthy of her and I'm sure she can easily find many other men who would literally worship her.



wilson said:


> It sounds like she has very rigid views of what her life and partner should be like. It sounds like she's trying to shape you into what she wants out of a partner rather than appreciating you for who you are. I don't think her requests are necessarily out of line, but she does seem very uncompromising about them. I'm sure you also have preferences of what a perfect partner should do or say, but it sounds like you're more flexible with those things.
> 
> A lot of this is probably because she's young and hasn't had enough adult relationships to realize that she can't call all the shots. If she had had more relationships, she probably would have experienced several breakups already if she tried to be too controlling. You're not a dog to be trained to her preference. You're an independent person with your own needs and desires. It sounds like you may have been too compromising already, which has allowed her to think her behavior is okay. I suspect that unless you push back and start making your own demands, she will continue to try to shape you into what she wants.


I guess so, but since hardening in preparation for a possible break up in the following days my demands may likely just end things anyway. I'm tired of the accusations, she never gives me the benefit of the doubt and several times I've considered lying to her because a false story is easier to believe than the truth! Also I'm tired her expectations of regular texting and routine affirmations, yes I'm safe, yes I ate, yes I'm at work, going to bed now, good morning. Hell we fight over me not wishing her a good morning when I just dont want to wake her up! I've been patient and consistently honest despite her paranoia and accusations, I've been compromising with her needs for affirmation, but what can I possibly demand?

Sure I can demand she stops accusing me but that may just drive it underground and she'll start resenting me, sure I can also demand she gives up her expectations of affirmation but then that's denying her her own needs. Reading back at the texts just makes me angry again and maybe I need more than a few days to cool off but it's too late now to ask for more time. She's already breaking the rules of space, messaging me hoping that I'm driving safely, and reminder that she still loves me. I have not replied, as for the first time in our relationship I've literally asked for space and I mean it.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> The issue is that we have tried to rectify this. I didn't ask her to compromise her standards but at least be more understanding and non-accusatory.
> 
> I don't recall ever being super affectionate at the start, but in our early days yes, when there were many new things to explore together things were great, she felt more loved and enjoyed the effort I spent in making plans, outings, trips, etc. After several thousands down the drain both ways and our financial plans for the future being placed on hold we adopted a more... homey lifestyle which we both agreed to. Netflix and chill.
> 
> ...


So what does she want from you now? Today? Can you please lay it out for us so we can understand what's before you? You said she's asked you to make promises you're not sure if you can keep. What do those consist of?



RandomDude said:


> I guess so, but since hardening in preparation for a possible break up in the following days my demands may likely just end things anyway. I'm tired of the accusations, she never gives me the benefit of the doubt and several times I've considered lying to her because a false story is easier to believe than the truth! Also I'm tired her expectations of regular texting and routine affirmations, yes I'm safe, yes I ate, yes I'm at work, going to bed now, good morning. Hell we fight over me not wishing her a good morning when I just dont want to wake her up! I've been patient and consistently honest despite her paranoia and accusations, I've been compromising with her needs for affirmation, but what can I possibly demand?
> 
> Sure I can demand she stops accusing me but that may just drive it underground and she'll start resenting me, sure I can also demand she gives up her expectations of affirmation but then that's denying her her own needs. Reading back at the texts just makes me angry again and maybe I need more than a few days to cool off but it's too late now to ask for more time. She's already breaking the rules of space, messaging me hoping that I'm driving safely, and reminder that she still loves me. I have not replied, as for the first time in our relationship I've literally asked for space and I mean it.


So what I'm hearing, is that you don't like the amount of closeness she does? You want distance in a relationship, while she wants to be as close as possible. She wants to talk at all hours, know what you're thinking, and be a single emotional unit. While you want to be two independent emotional entities, that collaborate at night - if you're feeling it.

The reason she's accusing you of things, is because you're being "evasive" (by not being transparent and open with her). You're pushing her away when she tries to draw close to you.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> For example, if I made the mistake of ending a text conversation with a closed statement and not an open statement; like "I know" instead of "I know, what do you think?" or some such she accuses me using it as an example of how I don't talk to her anymore and how she's always talking and making topics, I get irritated at her starting an issue over what I consider so miniscule yet for her it's a sign that the earth will shatter.
> 
> Quite frankly I've forgotten the vast majority of the other incidents as they are quite stupid (to me) but each built up over time and her general consensus is that I make less effort and show less affection.


With this example, it sounds like she has an overall feeling of being neglected and that you're not interested in talking with her, her thoughts and opinions. And this is her grasping at a concrete example for you. That or she's got unrealistic expectations and no one will be able to satisfy her long term.

Have you tried deliberately starting conversations with her? Or when she does initiate a topic, do you make a real effort to engage and ask her opinion and thoughts? Once she gets it in her head that you aren't interested in her, every little thing that can be twisted to support that is added to her pile of proof. But if overall she started to feel you were interested in her, then the little things shouldn't be so noticeable to her.

Or is it simply that you really are NOT interested in having conversations with her, what she thinks and what she feels? You just aren't a person who wants to talk about these things and even knowing it's important to her you don't have the mental energy/stamina for it because it's just "not you?" I think in general women want conversation more than men do. I know it's extremely important to me and always the #1 frustration in a relationship for me -- feeling that the guy has no patience for my idea of a "good conversation." It's always irritates me that "men" want women to have time and energy to meet their needs for sex with them and do things they enjoy, but then they completely resist the idea of participating in conversation with the woman.



RandomDude said:


> I've also tried to show more affection but my methods of affection are more, playful than romantic. I'd rather a nose rub, a tickle, and a cuddle, where as she would rather lots of kisses. Come to think of it, this particular problem with intimacy language isn't new - based on past partners.


I have to ask -- this is a question I've been wanting to as men in general -- If you're a man and you know your woman likes being kissed, and you know it's important to her, why don't you do it more? Do you actively dislike kissing? Is it a stubbornness thing on your part? Does she have bad breath? Do you worry that you do? 

I'm not asking with any attitude -- As a woman who wants to be kissed more, I'm just sincerely baffled by it. I understand Kissing may not be your first choice for affection, but it seems so simple to me. If you know she wants to be kissed... why don't you kiss her?

I've never understood when people say "...because my love language is different than my spouses." OK... But if you know your spouse would love a sweet little note where you prefer a nice hug ...why wouldn't you give him or her the sweet little note, AND get yourself a nice hug? Why just give a hug and act like you have no control over it?



RandomDude said:


> But frankly, I'm not so sure I can live with the extra mile as a requirement and have days ruined if I fail.
> 
> As for who has changed the most, well, it's a hard question to answer. For me she has been quite consistent, her expectations were high, and initially I met them according to her but I have failed in them nowadays. I've also opened up, and maybe I've gone the reverse direction recently... or maybe just today. I'm quite numb right now.


I think it all comes down to does she really need more than you can/will give, or have you two become (temporarily) polarized where she's hyper-sensitive to everything you're not doing, and you're having trouble doing anything because you're angry at her for treating harshly in response to her disappointment?

It's hard to say because I see some women (like my mom) who OMG they have this script for life written out in their head and they don't give you a copy, but when you don't say your line right - you've got hell to pay and there's no way you'll ever measure up. Other times, guys are just freaking stubborn and dense. They woman tells the guy what she wants and he does everything except that and then decides she's too high maintenance when she's never satisfied...


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@RandomDude

I’m typing on my phone so please pardon misspellings. I do have a thought that I think it’s worth sharing. You mentioned that you are and INFJ and she is ESTJ meaning that she is very close to your polar opposite as regards personality. I think some of your dynamic may be a clash between E and I. As an extrovert, her main way of gathering energy is to interact with other people. And other words, she charges her battery by conversation. In contrast, your main way of gathering energy is by quiet time or relative solitude. I say this as a fellow introvert who basically loves to be alone with just one guy— EB! So one thing I might bring to your mind as a challenge is that as an introvert in a relationship with an extrovert you want to love her in the way that she understands and receives love. So for example one thing you might do is start conversations using questions like “1000 questions couples should ask each other” or like Gottman cards or anything that will help you just spark the talking. Likewise, since you need relative quiet time she could love you by recognizing that she needs to just sit by you and maybe cuddle a little bit. The clash is both of you learning to love the other in their way (not your own). Neither way is “wrong” —they are just not the same.

This clash of personalities plays out in the examples you gave. In the beginning she fell in love with you because you took her out like an extrovert because you had money to take her out. Now, you have reverted to Netflix and chill which is a very introverted way and she is telling you that what she needs is some extroverted loving!

Even the example of constantly messaging is a difference in introvert – extrovert. And extrovert wants to constantly be in contact, connected and communicating, whereas an introvert would appreciate some downtime in between communications. Envision her reaching out a little tentacle to touch base with you “You OK good we’re done?” And she just does that every so often throughout the day to maintain her energy. For you that feels like constantly draining your energy. 

So I think one possible solution might be to speak with her explaining introvert extrovert (I’m sure she’s aware of it) and understanding that this is at least partially a sharp contrast in those two. If you understand that she is just trying to restore her energy, and she understands that you are just trying to maintain your energy, maybe the two of you can reach a compromise agreement such as “I will willingly touch base with you in the morning at lunchtime and when I’m leaving work. In addition, if there is a blood or fire emergency we can contact each other anytime.”


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

StarFires said:


> People come here solo with their problems or complaints or whatever, but I don't understand it from a seasoned veteran. You're giving people you are somewhat familiar with more of a voice in your decision-making you're giving your girlfriend. As result, you received general assessments from people who don't know her. She deserves a chance unless you prefer not to give her one.


I fully intend to show her this topic in a few days time and there's nothing stopping her from reading or joining, whether or not she's reading it right now it's up to her and we are not in a position to talk at the moment. I've given her complete transparency with this site including private messages. I've hidden nothing from her and maybe that's a problem.

I once thought since I have nothing to hide and I want to earn her trust completely I'll be fully honest and transparent. Simple right? Wrong, it's such a huge cause of misunderstandings and many times it's reached the point I literally tell her the truth knowing full well she's going to blow up in my face over nothing before I can ever explain anything as she does not distinguish an explanation from an excuse.



BioFury said:


> So what does she want from you now? Today? Can you please lay it out for us so we can understand what's before you? You said she's asked you to make promises you're not sure if you can keep. What do those consist of?


She wants me to put more effort in the relationship, to prioritise her, to start topics, to show her that she's not a "second choice" when it comes to my friends or hobbies.



> So what I'm hearing, is that you don't like the amount of closeness she does? You want distance in a relationship, while she wants to be as close as possible. She wants to talk at all hours, know what you're thinking, and be a single emotional unit. While you want to be two independent emotional entities, that collaborate at night - if you're feeling it.
> 
> The reason she's accusing you of things, is because you're being "evasive" (by not being transparent and open with her). You're pushing her away when she tries to draw close to you.


Well the more she blows up like this the less and less I want to talk to her about anything. It's already come to that point I've come to regret showing her every single aspect my life.



WorkingWife said:


> With this example, it sounds like she has an overall feeling of being neglected and that you're not interested in talking with her, her thoughts and opinions. And this is her grasping at a concrete example for you. That or she's got unrealistic expectations and no one will be able to satisfy her long term.
> 
> Have you tried deliberately starting conversations with her? Or when she does initiate a topic, do you make a real effort to engage and ask her opinion and thoughts? Once she gets it in her head that you aren't interested in her, every little thing that can be twisted to support that is added to her pile of proof. But if overall she started to feel you were interested in her, then the little things shouldn't be so noticeable to her.
> 
> Or is it simply that you really are NOT interested in having conversations with her, what she thinks and what she feels? You just aren't a person who wants to talk about these things and even knowing it's important to her you don't have the mental energy/stamina for it because it's just "not you?" I think in general women want conversation more than men do. I know it's extremely important to me and always the #1 frustration in a relationship for me -- feeling that the guy has no patience for my idea of a "good conversation." It's always irritates me that "men" want women to have time and energy to meet their needs for sex with them and do things they enjoy, but then they completely resist the idea of participating in conversation with the woman.


That's another thing, since we are together pretty much as often as possible many times there's nothing interesting that I want to share. I go to work, nothing happens, I go home. What's there to talk about? My routine chores? She's much more interesting to me I'd rather hear her blabber on - much more goes on in her life. If I do have something interesting to share I share it straight away and I tell her everything until there's nothing left and then I'm in trouble because I ran out of sh-t to say. There's always sh-t to say she reckons, well I don't want to bore her and hell I BORE MYSELF talking about my OWN BORING SH-T!



> I have to ask -- this is a question I've been wanting to as men in general -- If you're a man and you know your woman likes being kissed, and you know it's important to her, why don't you do it more? Do you actively dislike kissing? Is it a stubbornness thing on your part? Does she have bad breath? Do you worry that you do?
> I'm not asking with any attitude -- As a woman who wants to be kissed more, I'm just sincerely baffled by it. I understand Kissing may not be your first choice for affection, but it seems so simple to me. If you know she wants to be kissed... why don't you kiss her?
> I've never understood when people say "...because my love language is different than my spouses." OK... But if you know your spouse would love a sweet little note where you prefer a nice hug ...why wouldn't you give him or her the sweet little note, AND get yourself a nice hug? Why just give a hug and act like you have no control over it?


Kisses, doesn't really do much for me by itself, maybe it's a girl thing. I do like kisses with her but I like other forms of affection better and I initiate kisses only through the other forms of intimacy like I'd rather put my arms around her and kiss her neck before I kiss her lips or I'd rather rub her nose with mine then kiss, or play with her make her giggle and in our moments of pause kiss her, that's just me. 



> I think it all comes down to does she really need more than you can/will give, or have you two become (temporarily) polarized where she's hyper-sensitive to everything you're not doing, and you're having trouble doing anything because you're angry at her for treating harshly in response to her disappointment?
> 
> It's hard to say because I see some women (like my mom) who OMG they have this script for life written out in their head and they don't give you a copy, but when you don't say your line right - you've got hell to pay and there's no way you'll ever measure up. Other times, guys are just freaking stubborn and dense. They woman tells the guy what she wants and he does everything except that and then decides she's too high maintenance when she's never satisfied...


I'm likely just stubborn and dense. I mean, there was one guy hitting on her at her workplace who was way more persistent than the rest who I was very close to flattening until she changed companies. But from what I've heard from her, he literally worships the grounds she walks on and from his past relationships based on what he told her he does everything for her - and he got cheated on. Of course I asked her if that's what she wants and she replied that she's not interested in him and that he needs a backbone and stop being a doormat and that she finds it disrespectful that he can't take no for an answer. I don't believe there was anything sinister and he's just one of many, many annoying admirers who I wish I can just machine-gun down but now I can hear them going "Let her go! Your turn is over! It's our turn now! We can treat her better!" based on the sh-t she tells me these days.

I am angry yes and it hasn't subsided. I am also extremely depressed and sad I have not eaten anything nor had much sleep. The emotional hardening works for numbness in between moments of weakness where I have broken down for a few minutes until I recollect myself. I'm quite collected now... or maybe not, I can't tell...



Affaircare said:


> @RandomDude
> 
> I’m typing on my phone so please pardon misspellings. I do have a thought that I think it’s worth sharing. You mentioned that you are and INFJ and she is ESTJ meaning that she is very close to your polar opposite as regards personality. I think some of your dynamic may be a clash between E and I. As an extrovert, her main way of gathering energy is to interact with other people. And other words, she charges her battery by conversation. In contrast, your main way of gathering energy is by quiet time or relative solitude. I say this as a fellow introvert who basically loves to be alone with just one guy— EB! So one thing I might bring to your mind as a challenge is that as an introvert in a relationship with an extrovert you want to love her in the way that she understands and receives love. So for example one thing you might do is start conversations using questions like “1000 questions couples should ask each other” or like Gottman cards or anything that will help you just spark the talking. Likewise, since you need relative quiet time she could love you by recognizing that she needs to just sit by you and maybe cuddle a little bit. The clash is both of you learning to love the other in their way (not your own). Neither way is “wrong” —they are just not the same.
> 
> ...


Glad that you have mentioned this:

"Simply talking to your girlfriend does not require you to be an extrovert", is her answer along with "If you want to use introvert and extrovert then there will be excuses for everything"


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

> The reason she's accusing you of things, is because you're being "evasive" (by not being transparent and open with her). You're pushing her away when she tries to draw close to you.





> Well the more she blows up like this the less and less I want to talk to her about anything.


So that's the feedback loop. The more you ... the more she ... and vice versa ...

You need to break that loop.



> I've never understood when people say "...because my love language is different than my spouses." OK... But if you know your spouse would love a sweet little note where you prefer a nice hug ...why wouldn't you give him or her the sweet little note, AND get yourself a nice hug? Why just give a hug and act like you have no control over it?





> Kisses, doesn't really do much for me by itself, maybe it's a girl thing. I do like kisses with her but I like other forms of affection better and I initiate kisses only through the other forms of intimacy like I'd rather put my arms around her and kiss her neck before I kiss her lips or I'd rather rub her nose with mine then kiss, or play with her make her giggle and in our moments of pause kiss her, that's just me.


Your answer, doesn't really answer the question. If you know she likes X, why not do X? 
Saying because my favourite is Y, doesn't really hit the point.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> She wants me to put more effort in the relationship, to prioritise her, to start topics, to show her that she's not a "second choice" when it comes to my friends or hobbies.


So how much time do you spend with friends other than her? When you are with these friends are you animated and talking and discussing things, where she gets to see you actually do have things to say? Just not to her?



RandomDude said:


> Well the more she blows up like this the less and less I want to talk to her about anything. It's already come to that point I've come to regret showing her every single aspect my life.


Yeah her attempts to pull you closer are pushing you away. I read something else you wrote that reminded me of a "typical woman" where she wants to know everything you think and feel, and you tell her, and then she does not like what she just heard. People do that all the time, women in particular, they demand the guy be honest with them and then when he is ...BIG MISTAKE on his part.



RandomDude said:


> That's another thing, since we are together pretty much as often as possible many times there's nothing interesting that I want to share.


Check out the phone app "Beyond Small Talk" it has interesting questions to ask each other that are great conversation starters. Current events are also great for conversation -- what do you think of XYZ that is happening in the world right now? But, I'm starting to wonder just how much does she want/expect to talk? Does she want *all your free time together* to be filled with conversation? Like it is when you are with company/friends? If that's the case, then you probably ARE not compatible long term. She's not wrong to want that, but she's in the minority. Most people want to be able to just relax an "be" with each other in companionable silence too.



RandomDude said:


> Kisses, doesn't really do much for me by itself, maybe it's a girl thing. I do like kisses with her but I like other forms of affection better and I initiate kisses only through the other forms of intimacy like I'd rather put my arms around her and kiss her neck before I kiss her lips or I'd rather rub her nose with mine then kiss, or play with her make her giggle and in our moments of pause kiss her, that's just me.


Random Dude... Sigh... Your answer here... Dude... THIS is why women leave men. You have a woman you are crazy about and I sense really want to keep if you can get her to stop blowing up at you. You at least want her enough to desire to mow down the men who hit on her. You know one thing she wants is kissing. But you don't do it much not because you hate kissing, but because "it doesn't really do anything for you." WHISKEY. TANGO. FOXTROT??? You do realize that if all women had that attitude there would be no back rubs or blowjobs, don't you? Is that a world you want to live in?!

Affection is not a zero sum game. Kissing her more often does not mean you can't still rub your nose to hers and be playful and make her laugh and hug her. Or are you seriously saying that to her, the kiss doesn't count if it's preceded by you putting your arms around her first? 



RandomDude said:


> I'm likely just stubborn and dense. I mean, there was one guy hitting on her at her workplace who was way more persistent than the rest who I was very close to flattening until she changed companies. But from what I've heard from her, he literally worships the grounds she walks on and from his past relationships based on what he told her he does everything for her - and he got cheated on. Of course I asked her if that's what she wants and she replied that she's not interested in him and that he needs a backbone and stop being a doormat and that she finds it disrespectful that he can't take no for an answer. I don't believe there was anything sinister and he's just one of many, many annoying admirers who I wish I can just machine-gun down but now I can hear them going "Let her go! Your turn is over! It's our turn now! We can treat her better!" based on the sh-t she tells me these days.


OH PLEASE, SIGH -- those men would NOT "treat her better." Trust me, as a woman who recently divorced and suddenly seemed to draw attention from men like a magnet, they ALL SAY THAT. That's what men do when they want to get into your pants. They try to plant seeds of discontent in your mind about your current relationship, they lavish attention on you, they hang on your every word, blah blah blah. They find you beautiful and fascinating and they would never take you for granted... 




RandomDude said:


> I am angry yes and it hasn't subsided. I am also extremely depressed and sad I have not eaten anything nor had much sleep. The emotional hardening works for numbness in between moments of weakness where I have broken down for a few minutes until I recollect myself. I'm quite collected now... or maybe not, I can't tell...


I'm so sorry. Get something to eat at the very least. 



RandomDude said:


> Glad that you have mentioned this:
> 
> "Simply talking to your girlfriend does not require you to be an extrovert", is her answer along with "If you want to use introvert and extrovert then there will be excuses for everything"


How much time a day or week do you think you two DO spend talking? It is possible you really are very mismatched here and unfortunately it's a need of hers that is a deal breaker for her. I ask how much time because when I read something like this, *she *sounds extremely self centered and immature here.

Does she expect you to understand and accommodate her need for all the conversation she wants, but have no interest/empathy for you and your need to recharge and not constantly be "on?" 

Sorry you're going through this.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> I once thought since I have nothing to hide and I want to earn her trust completely I'll be fully honest and transparent. Simple right? Wrong, it's such a huge cause of misunderstandings and many times it's reached the point I literally tell her the truth knowing full well she's going to blow up in my face over nothing before I can ever explain anything as she does not distinguish an explanation from an excuse.


And from what I understand, this is a recent development correct? She hasn't always done that?



RandomDude said:


> She wants me to put more effort in the relationship, to prioritise her, to start topics, to show her that she's not a "second choice" when it comes to my friends or hobbies.


_Is_ she a second choice when it comes to your friends or hobbies? Are they more important to you than her?



RandomDude said:


> Well the more she blows up like this the less and less I want to talk to her about anything. It's already come to that point I've come to regret showing her every single aspect my life.
> 
> That's another thing, since we are together pretty much as often as possible many times there's nothing interesting that I want to share. I go to work, nothing happens, I go home. What's there to talk about? My routine chores? She's much more interesting to me I'd rather hear her blabber on - much more goes on in her life. If I do have something interesting to share I share it straight away and I tell her everything until there's nothing left and then I'm in trouble because I ran out of sh-t to say. There's always sh-t to say she reckons, well I don't want to bore her and hell I BORE MYSELF talking about my OWN BORING SH-T!


Ok, so find an activity to engage in together. Activities create new experiences, which create new threads of conversation. Nothing big or extravagant. Just spend some time finding a hobby or sport you both enjoy (this will take months, enjoy the journey), and start doing it together. Not only will it cut down on the amount of time conversation _can_ be had, but it will create shared experience that will bring you closer, in addition to giving you subject matter to talk about when you're not engaging in said sport/activity. 



RandomDude said:


> Kisses, doesn't really do much for me by itself, maybe it's a girl thing. I do like kisses with her but I like other forms of affection better and I initiate kisses only through the other forms of intimacy like I'd rather put my arms around her and kiss her neck before I kiss her lips or I'd rather rub her nose with mine then kiss, or play with her make her giggle and in our moments of pause kiss her, that's just me.


Well dude, you're unlike to find any girl who doesn't need or want lots of kissing. So work out a way to enjoy it, or be lonely the rest of your life. This shouldn't even be an issue dude. Just kiss your girlfriend. Often. It costs nothing, takes almost no effort, and makes her happy. You're hardly having your fingernails removed.



RandomDude said:


> I'm likely just stubborn and dense. I mean, there was one guy hitting on her at her workplace who was way more persistent than the rest who I was very close to flattening until she changed companies. But from what I've heard from her, he literally worships the grounds she walks on and from his past relationships based on what he told her he does everything for her - and he got cheated on. Of course I asked her if that's what she wants and she replied that she's not interested in him and that he needs a backbone and stop being a doormat and that she finds it disrespectful that he can't take no for an answer. I don't believe there was anything sinister and he's just one of many, many annoying admirers who I wish I can just machine-gun down but now I can hear them going "Let her go! Your turn is over! It's our turn now! We can treat her better!" based on the sh-t she tells me these days.


There you go, you don't want to lose her. So don't. Your girlfriend's request are not unreasonable, nor are they even difficult to fulfill. So stop whining, ask her if you guys can "reset" this whole situation, and start again. This time, do better.



RandomDude said:


> I am angry yes and it hasn't subsided. I am also extremely depressed and sad I have not eaten anything nor had much sleep. The emotional hardening works for numbness in between moments of weakness where I have broken down for a few minutes until I recollect myself. I'm quite collected now... or maybe not, I can't tell...


Why are you angry? Be happy that your girlfriend cares enough about you, and your relationship, that she bothers causing this ruckus. Would you rather she dumped you the moment you inconvenienced her? Would you rather she valued you so little that she just gave up? She trying to get your attention dude. She's letting you know how you can improve, and make her happy. Start listening to her.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Laurentium said:


> Your answer, doesn't really answer the question. If you know she likes X, why not do X?
> Saying because my favorite is Y, doesn't really hit the point.


Yeah I read that and thought wait, that doesn't answer my question. Then I thought -- actually maybe it does. It also answers why so often women get so hurt over seemingly little things.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

BioFury said:


> And from what I understand, this is a recent development correct? She hasn't always done that?


She usually gave me the benefit of the doubt, now it's all excuses to her.



> _Is_ she a second choice when it comes to your friends or hobbies? Are they more important to you than her?





WorkingWife said:


> So how much time do you spend with friends other than her? When you are with these friends are you animated and talking and discussing things, where she gets to see you actually do have things to say? Just not to her?


No they are not. I rarely even go out with my friends, but if I'm in the middle of texting them and take too long she starts to feel neglected. I try to rush but when under pressure out of fear she's going to blow up in my face seems I end up taking longer. Work is different at least, she doesn't blow up over calls or texts from work otherwise I'll be screwed.



BioFury said:


> Ok, so find an activity to engage in together. Activities create new experiences, which create new threads of conversation. Nothing big or extravagant. Just spend some time finding a hobby or sport you both enjoy (this will take months, enjoy the journey), and start doing it together. Not only will it cut down on the amount of time conversation _can_ be had, but it will create shared experience that will bring you closer, in addition to giving you subject matter to talk about when you're not engaging in said sport/activity.


We did that, I got her involved and it's become a cause of drama because she could stalk when I could talk to fellow hobbyists and use that as an example of me neglecting her when I talk to them more than her which is a recent catalyst. She's no expert and new like me, of course I'm going to ask more from the experts. So yeah, sometimes solutions blow up in our faces. Right now she's told me to quit so we've given up on that particular hobby and I've come to learn to never share an activity that involves other people either than her! If it ain't solo, don't get her involved!



> Well dude, you're unlike to find any girl who doesn't need or want lots of kissing. So work out a way to enjoy it, or be lonely the rest of your life. This shouldn't even be an issue dude. Just kiss your girlfriend. Often. It costs nothing, takes almost no effort, and makes her happy. You're hardly having your fingernails removed.


It's not that I don't kiss her, it's just that I don't kiss her as often as she wants me to! And she wants me to initiate! Affection has always been natural for me and I can't stand it when I have to mentally tell myself to do show it a particular way and not my way. I've had this same issue with several exs maybe I'm just not fit for a relationship. Yes I've given in and tried, but it's still not enough for her, perhaps I'm not putting in enough effort for her love language I don't know.



> There you go, you don't want to lose her. So don't. Your girlfriend's request are not unreasonable, nor are they even difficult to fulfill. So stop whining, ask her if you guys can "reset" this whole situation, and start again. This time, do better.


It's difficult for me to promise and I'm just tired of this and feeling so inadequate in furfilling her needs that she's complained about repeatedly. The first time she mentioned it I already wanted to end it because I told her there's only 3 things she can do that will make me end things with her:
1) She falls out of love with me
2) She cheats on me or betrays my trust
3) She will be better off without me

When she makes me feel like number 3... bah! It led to quite some dramas in the past until I made her the promise that I would no longer try to decide on her behalf whether to stay or go. She's freed me from that promise recently.



WorkingWife said:


> Yeah her attempts to pull you closer are pushing you away. I read something else you wrote that reminded me of a "typical woman" where she wants to know everything you think and feel, and you tell her, and then she does not like what she just heard. People do that all the time, women in particular, they demand the guy be honest with them and then when he is ...BIG MISTAKE on his part.


That's the thing though like, if I have to be guarded with my own partner and not be fully transparent then I'll just have the type of relationships I had in the past where I needed my space. This relationship has been so refreshing for me because of the transparency and the feeling that we are two parts of a whole. If I have to give that up our dynamics will shift too much in a direction I don't want it to shift and gives me even more reason to not continue.



> Check out the phone app "Beyond Small Talk" it has interesting questions to ask each other that are great conversation starters. Current events are also great for conversation -- what do you think of XYZ that is happening in the world right now? But, I'm starting to wonder just how much does she want/expect to talk? Does she want *all your free time together* to be filled with conversation? Like it is when you are with company/friends? If that's the case, then you probably ARE not compatible long term. She's not wrong to want that, but she's in the minority. Most people want to be able to just relax an "be" with each other in companionable silence too.


The times where I'm texted others while she's in front of me is my fault and I've made compromises for that. Other several times I'm lost in thought and before I even formulate my thoughts into something plausible to share she accuses me of being silent, those are the worst ones and I don't think despite attempting to explain it she understands the concept of that.



> Random Dude... Sigh... Your answer here... Dude... THIS is why women leave men. You have a woman you are crazy about and I sense really want to keep if you can get her to stop blowing up at you. You at least want her enough to desire to mow down the men who hit on her. You know one thing she wants is kissing. But you don't do it much not because you hate kissing, but because "it doesn't really do anything for you." WHISKEY. TANGO. FOXTROT??? You do realize that if all women had that attitude there would be no back rubs or blowjobs, don't you? Is that a world you want to live in?!
> 
> Affection is not a zero sum game. Kissing her more often does not mean you can't still rub your nose to hers and be playful and make her laugh and hug her. Or are you seriously saying that to her, the kiss doesn't count if it's preceded by you putting your arms around her first?


Well I wouldn't want her to give back rubs or BJs if she doesn't enjoy it. I wouldn't dare to ask such a compromise from her.

Besides it's not that I don't like kissing her I do enjoy it and when I'm in certain cuddle positions I kiss her repeatedly. I just don't want it to be expected or routine or to have a specified quota as a determinant whether she feels loved or not - which ok sure, that's not my choice to make as she's her and I'm me and that lies the problem - if it's just compatibility.



> OH PLEASE, SIGH -- those men would NOT "treat her better." Trust me, as a woman who recently divorced and suddenly seemed to draw attention from men like a magnet, they ALL SAY THAT. That's what men do when they want to get into your pants. They try to plant seeds of discontent in your mind about your current relationship, they lavish attention on you, they hang on your every word, blah blah blah. They find you beautiful and fascinating and they would never take you for granted...


Sure most of them, but I'm sure that persistent ****** probably could treat her better considering how he worships the grounds she walks on. Besides doormats need love too.



> How much time a day or week do you think you two DO spend talking? It is possible you really are very mismatched here and unfortunately it's a need of hers that is a deal breaker for her. I ask how much time because when I read something like this, *she *sounds extremely self centered and immature here.
> 
> Does she expect you to understand and accommodate her need for all the conversation she wants, but have no interest/empathy for you and your need to recharge and not constantly be "on?"


She has her moments, like myself as well. 
When together very few moments of silence. When apart, we generally text 15-30 minutes between texts. 

In the past I didn't text her back for hours which she didn't like. In the beginning we didn't use to have problems with it; when she doesn't text me for hours I trusted that she was ok and give her space to live her life and when she responds I'm happy and I did the same, but since emotions got involved she began to require regular affirmation which I've adapted to. I used to be able to maintain my focus on whatever I am doing but now I have mental cues in my brain to "text her, keep her updated"

Now it's not really the frequency of the content but the content itself she's not satisfied with. She wants me to start more topics and not just respond for example, but not every thought is worth sharing for me.



Laurentium said:


> So that's the feedback loop. The more you ... the more she ... and vice versa ...
> 
> You need to break that loop.


If it wasn't for the frequency of our stupid little fights the loop would probably just diminish itself in our bliss but now it's a serious cause of concern.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Wow. I'm a female, and I probably couldn't keep up, or want to keep up with THAT MUCH discussion and texting. I'd probably lose my mind.

This looks like a major compatibility issue.

I personally don't foresee it improving.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Anyway it may seem that I'm complaining about her but in the end she's the best I've ever found. She's smart, beautiful, loyal, caring, funny, hardworking, giving, romantic, honest, trustworthy, in other words she's complete perfection. And for the year and a half she's been with me she's treated me like a king and she has the right to demand effort.

Issue isn't about her integrity or quality, issue is all compatibility. The issue is that I'm coming out short of her subjective expectations and unable to please her. How can I dare to even ask her to be more compromising when yes, she does more of the little things. I hate the words coming out from my mind as I pour them on this thread because I know she's done alot for me and I don't want to discredit her side of things.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Livvie said:


> Wow. I'm a female, and I probably couldn't keep up, or want to keep up with THAT MUCH discussion and texting. I'd probably lose my mind.
> 
> This looks like a major compatibility issue.
> 
> I personally don't foresee it improving.


On our good days we generally spend entire days with no breaks in between except for sleep or naps which isn't a bad thing for me. It's more conversational and love languages that we seem to be incompatible with from time to time... well, to the point it's fked now, like WTF?!

And she took off her promise ring I gave her on our anniversary during our fight. I know it's rather silly and sentimental, but I never took mine off. That hurt me enough to harden like fk and I was ready to burn everything we built to the ground. Hell in fact if it wasn't for her phone call after she made me drive off I would have gone home and removed everything of hers from my apartment and throw everything out along with the ring she got me. When she realised what she had done she tried to reassure me and wanted to continue to wear it but either way I'm no longer wearing mine right now either as it's fitting for our little break.

I sound so stupid... but anyway, that's but a sympton of the illness.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> She has her moments, like myself as well.
> When together very few moments of silence. When apart, we generally text 15-30 minutes between texts.


Are you saying throughout the day when one of you is working, you're still texting at least every 30 minutes and she's wanting to have a text conversation of substance? That is a LOT of communication, IMO. I wouldn't be able to sustain that long term in a relationship, and I'm a woman who loves to talk and text. My BF doesn't like texting and I respect that and keep texting short with him. Sometimes we have something amusing/witty to say, but for the most part, texting is for exchanging information -- like when will you be home, do you need anything from the grocery store, etc.

If this is a matter of her being more sensitive now that she perceives you're not showing her the interest she needs, then maybe if you two can reset and start over. But if it's a matter of that is her base level for what she needs to feel loved in a relationship, well, that's an extremely tall order and I can understand why you feel kind of hopeless about being adequate for her.

Same with the talking when you're together. My #1 "need" in relationships is good conversation. But to almost always be talking when together, assuming you're together a lot, I'm pretty sure most people can't sustain that for long.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Obviously, loving someone doesn't mean a relationship will work with them. If what she needs is not compatible with what you are able to give long-term -- and compromise isn't possible -- it's better to know that now. But have you given yourself enough time to seriously think about it?


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> She usually gave me the benefit of the doubt, now it's all excuses to her.
> 
> No they are not. I rarely even go out with my friends, but if I'm in the middle of texting them and take too long she starts to feel neglected. I try to rush but when under pressure out of fear she's going to blow up in my face seems I end up taking longer. Work is different at least, she doesn't blow up over calls or texts from work otherwise I'll be screwed.


Well, once again, it doesn't look like your girlfriend just can't tolerate you texting your friends, it's just a symptom of the bigger issue - her feeling neglected.



RandomDude said:


> We did that, I got her involved and it's become a cause of drama because she could stalk when I could talk to fellow hobbyists and use that as an example of me neglecting her when I talk to them more than her which is a recent catalyst. She's no expert and new like me, of course I'm going to ask more from the experts. So yeah, sometimes solutions blow up in our faces. Right now she's told me to quit so we've given up on that particular hobby and I've come to learn to never share an activity that involves other people either than her! If it ain't solo, don't get her involved!


More info is needed on this. Were you focusing your interactions with other people, and just expecting her to tag along behind you? Or did you make a concerted effort to involve and focus on her?

If that hobby/sport didn't work out, try another one. Like I said, it will likely take a while to find one you both enjoy, that fits the bill.



RandomDude said:


> It's not that I don't kiss her, it's just that I don't kiss her as often as she wants me to! And she wants me to initiate! Affection has always been natural for me and I can't stand it when I have to mentally tell myself to do show it a particular way and not my way. I've had this same issue with several exs maybe I'm just not fit for a relationship. Yes I've given in and tried, but it's still not enough for her, perhaps I'm not putting in enough effort for her love language I don't know.


Ok, so why not kiss her more? Why not have a make out session? Do all the snuggling, and nose brushing that you enjoy, while making out. A make out session doesn't have to consist of only kissing.



RandomDude said:


> It's difficult for me to promise and I'm just tired of this and feeling so inadequate in furfilling her needs that she's complained about repeatedly. The first time she mentioned it I already wanted to end it because I told her there's only 3 things she can do that will make me end things with her:
> 1) She falls out of love with me
> 2) She cheats on me or betrays my trust
> 3) She will be better off without me
> ...


Well that's not good. Dude, I'm telling you right now, if you value this woman, you need to wake up. She starting to distance herself from you, and if you don't do something, you're going to hurt her, and lose her.



RandomDude said:


> That's the thing though like, if I have to be guarded with my own partner and not be fully transparent then I'll just have the type of relationships I had in the past where I needed my space. This relationship has been so refreshing for me because of the transparency and the feeling that we are two parts of a whole. If I have to give that up our dynamics will shift too much in a direction I don't want it to shift and gives me even more reason to not continue.
> 
> The times where I'm texted others while she's in front of me is my fault and I've made compromises for that. Other several times I'm lost in thought and before I even formulate my thoughts into something plausible to share she accuses me of being silent, those are the worst ones and I don't think despite attempting to explain it she understands the concept of that.


Then stop doing what you're doing now, and do what you did at the beginning when everything was good. She's not a crazy psycho, which someone could mistake her for by the descriptions you've given. She's been pushed into being all clingy because you push her away. Stop pushing her away, and it will break this nasty cycle of you withdrawing, her becoming upset, so you withdraw some more, so she gets more upset, so you want to be even further away.... and on and on it goes.

Break the cycle.



RandomDude said:


> Well I wouldn't want her to give back rubs or BJs if she doesn't enjoy it. I wouldn't dare to ask such a compromise from her.
> 
> Besides it's not that I don't like kissing her I do enjoy it and when I'm in certain cuddle positions I kiss her repeatedly. I just don't want it to be expected or routine or to have a specified quota as a determinant whether she feels loved or not - which ok sure, that's not my choice to make as she's her and I'm me and that lies the problem - if it's just compatibility.


I very much doubt she has a specific number in mind. "He needs to kiss me at least 13 times each day, and he only does so 7!". You realize you sound like a withholding wife right now? "I don't mind sex, I just don't want it to be expected, or have to do it a certain number of times each week."



RandomDude said:


> Sure most of them, but I'm sure that persistent ****** probably could treat her better considering how he worships the grounds she walks on. Besides doormats need love too.
> 
> She has her moments, like myself as well.
> When together very few moments of silence. When apart, we generally text 15-30 minutes between texts.
> ...


Have you talked to her about this in a non-combative way? Told her that you really want to meet her needs, but that you're not a very creative conversationalist? That you feel hampered in your ability to please her, but that you want to, and ask her for advice on what you can do that would please her? 

Maybe she's not expecting anything original, or awe-inspiring in your replies. She just wants your responses to communicate interest. You've probably texted a girl in times past, that responded with one-word answers, never asked you a single question, and all that? It's a pretty strong communicator of disinterest. _That_, could be what she has a problem with. Not that you don't generate new theories on meta-physics to discuss together each day.



RandomDude said:


> Anyway it may seem that I'm complaining about her but in the end she's the best I've ever found. She's smart, beautiful, loyal, caring, funny, hardworking, giving, romantic, honest, trustworthy, in other words she's complete perfection. And for the year and a half she's been with me she's treated me like a king and she has the right to demand effort.
> 
> Issue isn't about her integrity or quality, issue is all compatibility. The issue is that I'm coming out short of her subjective expectations and unable to please her. How can I dare to even ask her to be more compromising when yes, she does more of the little things. I hate the words coming out from my mind as I pour them on this thread because I know she's done alot for me and I don't want to discredit her side of things.


Then rise to her expectations. You've got a good woman here man. Someone who, evidently, will stay by your side and be good to you. Stop being angry about past wrongs. Forgive them and put them behind you. Hit the reset button and start anew with her.

Cause I'm telling you, if you don't pull it together right now, and hold on to this woman, you're going to realize what a huge mistake it was once she's gone. 

If you want my advice, go get her flowers, go to her apartment/house at the very next opportunity (right now, would be good), and say you're sorry. That you've been an idiot. That you want her to be happy, and that you're willing to do whatever it takes.


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## cma62 (Jul 31, 2010)

I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that she is young and immature and wants what she wants and finds compromise hard.
She hasn’t had enough relationship experience to realize that the “ honeymoon “ period doesn’t last forever and is Ill equipped to deal with the ups and downs of real life within a relationship.
Granted there are simple, reasonable things she is asking for but also her expectations of other things are far too much.
Seems like you have been doing a lot of what she wants and how she wants it but then she moves the goalposts , so you are confused that she has upped her expectations when everything seemed to be working out fine, and suddenly you aren’t giving enough.
So you never feel that anything you do is good enough for her, and she is constantly griping at you.
It seems a bit extreme to expect a man to text or communicate that amount of time throughout the day....no wonder there’s nothing left to talk about in person...it’s been exhausted already.
It’s a shame as things seemed to be going so well. After reading a lot of your other threads and posts, i was happy to read you had found someone that was worth being vulnerable for.

This is just the start...when you throw other stressors into the mix in the future, how is she going to be able to deal a with those if she can’t deal with this small hurdle that has unfortunately upset the status quo for both of you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

WorkingWife said:


> Are you saying throughout the day when one of you is working, you're still texting at least every 30 minutes and she's wanting to have a text conversation of substance? That is a LOT of communication, IMO. I wouldn't be able to sustain that long term in a relationship, and I'm a woman who loves to talk and text. My BF doesn't like texting and I respect that and keep texting short with him. Sometimes we have something amusing/witty to say, but for the most part, texting is for exchanging information -- like when will you be home, do you need anything from the grocery store, etc.
> 
> If this is a matter of her being more sensitive now that she perceives you're not showing her the interest she needs, then maybe if you two can reset and start over. But if it's a matter of that is her base level for what she needs to feel loved in a relationship, well, that's an extremely tall order and I can understand why you feel kind of hopeless about being adequate for her. Same with the talking when you're together. My #1 "need" in relationships is good conversation. But to almost always be talking when together, assuming you're together a lot, I'm pretty sure most people can't sustain that for long.


Nah she doesn't expect it at work but when we are apart and not working yes she expects it. I prefer face to face too but it's not always possible and I prefer texts to phone calls where I can still do my own thing. I've made strides on that but now her issue is my short replies.



Openminded said:


> Obviously, loving someone doesn't mean a relationship will work with them. If what she needs is not compatible with what you are able to give long-term -- and compromise isn't possible -- it's better to know that now. But have you given yourself enough time to seriously think about it?


Trying to give myself time, she's messaging me hoping to talk but I'm stalling it until I'm ready to talk.



BioFury said:


> Well, once again, it doesn't look like your girlfriend just can't tolerate you texting your friends, it's just a symptom of the bigger issue - her feeling neglected. More info is needed on this. Were you focusing your interactions with other people, and just expecting her to tag along behind you? Or did you make a concerted effort to involve and focus on her?


In the recent debacle I focused on conversing with others as they have more knowledge of the hobby but I share everything I find that is interesting or amusing. The latest issue is when she shared her opinion on the subject and I replied with "I know", then after further discussing with hobbyists on group chat I said good night to them, went back to text her, saw that she didn't reply, assumed she read what I wrote on the group chat and passed out. That resparked everything from me replying with a short answer and me making more effort with others than her etc.

I regret not saying good night to her personally or trying to involve her more but her blowing up in my face after that, then proceeding to text me on a busy work day distracting me really drove me up the wall. This is far from the first time. I can see how in this instance I can't really have any excuses as I was texting the hobbyists, but I'm so done with little mistakes like that making me feel like I have to tip toe around her.



> Maybe she's not execting anything original, or awe-inspiring in your replies. She just wants your responses to communicate interest. You've probably texted a girl in times past, that responded with one-word answers, never asked you a single question, and all that? It's a pretty strong communicator of disinterest. _That_, could be what she has a problem with. Not that you don't generate new theories on meta-physics to discuss together each day.


It's not that I just go "Uhuh" "Yeah", nothing like that, unless I'm really pissed at her, like now. The "I know" was a mistake.



> Then stop doing what you're doing now, and do what you did at the beginning when everything was good. She's not a crazy psycho, which someone could mistake her for by the descriptions you've given. She's been pushed into being all clingy because you push her away. Stop pushing her away, and it will break this nasty cycle of you withdrawing, her becoming upset, so you withdraw some more, so she gets more upset, so you want to be even further away.... and on and on it goes. Break the cycle.


I didn't even notice the cycle until recently. We've had a confrontation about it because I was trying to sweep things under the rug in the hopes it'll go away but it sapped at my affection for her, which led to more issues.



> I very much doubt she has a specific number in mind. "He needs to kiss me at least 13 times each day, and he only does so 7!". You realize you sound like a withholding wife right now? "I don't mind sex, I just don't want it to be expected, or have to do it a certain number of times each week."


Sadly, I've always related more to the withholding wife than the sex-starved husband on this forum.



> Have you talked to her about this in a non-combative way? Told her that you really want to meet her needs, but that you're not a very creative conversationalist? That you feel hampered in your ability to please her, but that you want to, and ask her for advice on what you can do that would please her?


Yes and she believes it's excuses.



> Then rise to her expectations. You've got a good woman here man. Someone who, evidently, will stay by your side and be good to you. Stop being angry about past wrongs. Forgive them and put them behind you. Hit the reset button and start anew with her. Cause I'm telling you, if you don't pull it together right now, and hold on to this woman, you're going to realize what a huge mistake it was once she's gone. If you want my advice, go get her flowers, go to her apartment/house at the very next opportunity (right now, would be good), and say you're sorry. That you've been an idiot. That you want her to be happy, and that you're willing to do whatever it takes.


I already tried that and failed and now she wants more reassurance that I don't know if I can even give because I've tried and failed multiple times and I don't want to ask her to compromise her standards either considering what she does for me so we are at a standstill and I'm debating if we can work things out or not.



cma62 said:


> I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that she is young and immature and wants what she wants and finds compromise hard.
> She hasn’t had enough relationship experience to realize that the “ honeymoon “ period doesn’t last forever and is Ill equipped to deal with the ups and downs of real life within a relationship.
> Granted there are simple, reasonable things she is asking for but also her expectations of other things are far too much.
> Seems like you have been doing a lot of what she wants and how she wants it but then she moves the goalposts , so you are confused that she has upped her expectations when everything seemed to be working out fine, and suddenly you aren’t giving enough.
> ...


Strangely, we work out other issues with no problems. It's always the little things with us that pile up. I don't think she moved the goalposts I think I just overestimated myself in forfilling her needs up to her standard.

We were both quite passionate during the honeymoon period and it lasted so long that it has become a standard within our relationship I guess.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

... and so much for fking space to find a solution she's coming to see me right now. Claims to have a solution.
Thought she would know better than to come see me in angry RD mode by now. *sigh*

Now I know it may seem easy to just get her flowers and start over but it's come to the point that if I do such I will resent her.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> ... and so much for fking space to find a solution she's coming to see me right now. Claims to have a solution.
> Thought she would know better than to come see me in angry RD mode by now. *sigh*
> 
> Now I know it may seem easy to just get her flowers and start over but it's come to the point that if I do such I will resent her.


Yeah, it must be tough having a girlfriend who cares. Woe art thou.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> In the recent debacle I focused on conversing with others as they have more knowledge of the hobby but I share everything I find that is interesting or amusing. The latest issue is when she shared her opinion on the subject and I replied with "I know", then after further discussing with hobbyists on group chat I said good night to them, went back to text her, saw that she didn't reply, assumed she read what I wrote on the group chat and passed out. That resparked everything from me replying with a short answer and me making more effort with others than her etc.


"I know"? :| So you minimized her opinion, talked to others rather than her, then left her hanging.

I'm beginning to see why she's constantly upset with you. Is being considerate and thoughtful too much to ask?



RandomDude said:


> I regret not saying good night to her personally or trying to involve her more but her blowing up in my face after that, then proceeding to text me on a busy work day distracting me really drove me up the wall. This is far from the first time. I can see how in this instance I can't really have any excuses as I was texting the hobbyists, but I'm so done with little mistakes like that making me feel like I have to tip toe around her.


Not dismissing her opinion, and not ignoring her, are hardly "tip-toe" things. Especially if you do things like this often. Which I'm getting the impression you do.



RandomDude said:


> It's not that I just go "Uhuh" "Yeah", nothing like that, unless I'm really pissed at her, like now. The "I know" was a mistake.


It doesn't really matter whether your replies are three or four words, if they still communicate the same thing - zero investment in the conversation.



RandomDude said:


> I didn't even notice the cycle until recently. We've had a confrontation about it because I was trying to sweep things under the rug in the hopes it'll go away but it sapped at my affection for her, which led to more issues.
> 
> Sadly, I've always related more to the withholding wife than the sex-starved husband on this forum.
> 
> I already tried that and failed and now she wants more reassurance that I don't know if I can even give because I've tried and failed multiple times and I don't want to ask her to compromise her standards either considering what she does for me so we are at a standstill and I'm debating if we can work things out or not.


Well, you sound more and more like a detached, insensitive boyfriend. Your girlfriend has a lot of love to give, and it appears that you don't. I feel sorry for her.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Your girlfriend is too needy for you. Her wanting you to devote every spare moment to her is suffocating you. She has to find ways to keep herself entertained and let you off the leash.

This may improve as she matures or it may not.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

We had a talk last few hours, showed her this thread. I have to thank everyone for your opinions in this, both sides of the debate.

We've come to an understanding and will see how this goes. Right now we need to take the time to heal.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

She reminds me of me when I was in my 20s. I was super insecure and had low self esteem... women like this need a lot to feel loved and happy. I remember many fights I would get into with my ex husband Bc I never felted loved and I always needed more effort, more affection, more more more and it was exhausting to my ex. Now I realize that he loved me the entire time and the issue was just mine. There is a difference between being loved and feeling loved and for some reason I needed a lot of feel loved and it wasn’t fair.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Girl_power said:


> She reminds me of me when I was in my 20s. I was super insecure and had low self esteem... women like this need a lot to feel loved and happy. I remember many fights I would get into with my ex husband Bc I never felted loved and I always needed more effort, more affection, more more more and it was exhausting to my ex. Now I realize that he loved me the entire time and the issue was just mine. There is a difference between being loved and feeling loved and for some reason I needed a lot of feel loved and it wasn’t fair.


I think you may have nailed it here.
@RandomDude said he felt like he was making her look bad in this thread but she's actually wonderful, and I thought -- she doesn't look bad to me. She does sound like a really wonderful person, HOWEVER, she sounds *very insecure*. It seems that no matter what he does to try to give her what she's asking for, she raises the bar with new, more stringent needs. That's because insecurity really can't be sated by another person. 

Insecurity would explain why she treats him so good (feeling a need to prove herself worthy) but also why nothing he does scratches her itch for approval, admiration, connection, etc. She constantly needs proof of his love for her because inside she doesn't feel truly valuable, even if logically she knows she is. 

Unfortunately, if we're correct, it is something she will have to overcome herself and like you said, that may just be a matter of maturing and growing up, which takes time and life experiences.

And you can't look at a woman and say -- but she's beautiful, and popular, and likable, and all these guys want her, and she's so great, she *shouldn't *feel insecure. It doesn't matter. For some reason, she just does.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

WorkingWife said:


> I think you may have nailed it here.
> 
> 
> @RandomDude said he felt like he was making her look bad in this thread but she's actually wonderful, and I thought -- she doesn't look bad to me. She does sound like a really wonderful person, HOWEVER, she sounds *very insecure*. It seems that no matter what he does to try to give her what she's asking for, she raises the bar with new, more stringent needs. That's because insecurity really can't be sated by another person.
> ...




Exactly. When my ex husband and I divorced he would always tell me that he loved me to the max that he could love anyone but it wasn’t enough for me. And he was right it wasn’t enough. And it wasn’t fair to my ex.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Needy people can suck the air out of a room in record time.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Needy people can suck the air out of a room in record time.


... Especially when they put forth that the other person is the one who has failed. Their neediness is not made the dynamic to address, they make the partner's failure to fill their void as the issue and a failure.


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## stefanjames (Jul 15, 2019)

Exactly. When my ex husband and I divorced he would always tell me that he loved me to the max that he could love anyone but it wasn’t enough for me. And he was right it wasn’t enough. And it wasn’t fair to my ex.


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