# Words vs. Action



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

We will have been married for 17 years this coming Saturday. 15 of those years were basically spent being parent partners (not by my choosing) and suddenly one day my husband comes home and essentially says he wants us to change. Yes, after 15 years of me essentially beating my head against a wall and him telling me our marriage is awesome he "realizes" that it isn't. So I try my best to put aside 15 years of hurt, anger and neglect and try to make the best out of our future together. We went to counseling and things "seemed" to be getting better. 
Fast forward to today. I realize that there has been no change in him whatsoever except for words. In the last 2 years he does say "I love you" and "you are the most important person in the world to me" so I guess that is progress? But what does the context tell me. He says these things yet doesn't back it up with any action. None. His "I love you's" are usually said while tapping away at his laptop, barely looking up at me. As for being the most important? I certainly don't feel it. A small example: over the weekend we were supposed to "talk" and try to understand one another better. That didn't happen despite my asking him about it. He said "let's do it tomorrow". Sunday, nothing. So yesterday I sent him a private message telling him my feelings about us. He got that message before 9:00 am. No response whatsoever and last night he spent all night watching t.v. before falling asleep at 11:00. Today, when I confronted him about it he said "You didn't give me a chance to respond". What? How is that making me the most important person to you? Hell, the television was more important than my feelings!
He says that his word is his bond. Okay. But what if those words don't match the action? A man can tell his wife he loves her all he wants but if his actions are those that hurt her, what do his words mean anymore? 
In these past two years he has been more vocal but my "list" of actions have gone ignored. On my list were things that are/were important to me and ways that he could make me feel like a priority to him with time spent together. I wanted him to take black and white photos of me (he is/was an amateur photographer), I wanted to go up to the airport at night, lay on the hood of his car and watch the planes take off and land (I love airplanes, want to get my pilot's license), I wanted to go out just the two of us to a nice restaurant that wasn't kid friendly and had candlelight. I wanted to have sex outdoors (lol). Not ONE thing on this list has happened or even come close to happening in TWO YEARS. Most of it is free for God's sake! I have mentioned (and even written these items down) more times than I can count. It is always the same thing....next weekend/next time/next month/after this, that and whatever. Yet I am supposed to believe his words and he gets angry/sad that I don't believe them. What hurts the most? It's not like he doesn't have it in him to act on his words. He has made a career out of managing projects, deadlines, resources, budgets and people. He is a Project Manager and very successful at what he does. It just leaves me realizing that I am a "project" that isn't important enough. 
Are words as important as action? What if the words aren't met with action? 
I am just so hurt. 17 years this Saturday and I am dreading that damn day.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

It sounds like you have done a lot of talking yourself.

Have you taken any action to force the issue...?

Just start doing the things on your list. Set the time you are going, ask him to come, if he doesn't go, don't pout just take someone else.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I have not finished your post but it hit me by the 1st few sentences and saw that was me { 19 years of grap and I wanted change, just suddenly}

My take, if he wants change, well his 1st change for you is read "how to love your wife". 2nd change is for you to support it.

I spead through your post, and he hasn't done a thing, right ( no action)?

Well dont resent, dont say any thing, show him through your actions to his s**ty attempt on being better through words and give him exambles like affection, take his hand while walking, give him a quick peck on the neck, even slight touch on his back, a touch with a long look/stear or a light slap on the butt. I'm just quessing here but if your already doing this, do it more.

I have found the more affection I get from my W the more I want to return it. It just seams like the right thing to do. You know what I mean, its like when someone says hi, you say hi back. Does that make sense?

He may start questioning your physical attention and well actions speak loader then words and besides he started this.

W & I never saw much puplic affection from our parents and it WAS an obsticle for us as adults.IDK, try it.


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## gtsanchez (Sep 26, 2010)

I actually know a lot about action vs words from experience. For years, my low self esteem issues have played havoc with my marriage (23 years), and many times I have said that I would change. I always had the intention of doing so and would work hard for a while, and things would get better. But eventually I would fall back in the same habits and hurt my wife all over again. It got to the point that she had had enough and said she may want to leave. Just the jolt of her wanting to leave has been quite the motivator!

It may be that your husband realizes that change is needed, and he actually wants to change. I suspect that he probably tries for a bit, then things feel "normal" again and he gets comfortable and goes back to his same pattern. He probably won't make any real, permanent change until you are both at "rock bottom". That is why drug addicts have such a hard time changing until they are at their lowest poing. It is just human nature. You may have to force his hand by action on your part. Just be sure that if you bluff, that you are ready to follow through. I really hope things work out for you. You both sound like you have a lot to work with and can get through this.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Atholk,
I told him that I would hire a photographer to take pictures (clothed) of me and his response was "They will come out better that way. I don't have a studio or good lighting". When he said that it made me feel ugly. I told him so and he said that I misunderstood him in that he wanted to make sure they were "perfect". I could care less how those photos came out, I wanted to experience this with HIM. None of the things on my list would matter jack **** if it were done with somebody else.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

The Guy: I will buy that book. Thank you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So what are you going to do?

Have you asked about a MC?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Sanchez,
Thank you for your insight. Yes, we have LONG history. Married 17 years (this dreaded Saturday) and have known each other since age 9. Friends. Dated others yet ended up together. What I cannot wrap my brain around is how do you treat the "most important person in your life" the way he has? He is my lover, my rock, my love. I think he would say the same about me. He isn't a jerk or a cheater yet he seems to care more about his comforts than to put forth effort in to me. Again, words versus actions. Right now, if he told me the sky was blue I would have to go outside and check for myself....his words mean that little.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Turnera,
We went to MC for five months. She in essence said that we both harbor anger and resentment over the past 15 years when we didn't think our marriage was important. I took serious issue with that. For 15 years (try 6 months after being married) I told him that something was wrong, something was off, this didn't feel normal. My husband dismissed it. He was happy, loves me and cannot wait to spend the rest of his life with me. 
Looking back, to him, words meant everything. To me, actions spoke louder than words. We have both read the 5 Love Languages. Here is what saddens me the most. He came out highest on words of affirmation. So to him when he says he loves me, he really means it. But he doesn't show it. Ever. I am not asking for the Hope Diamond, I am asking for his time, his connection, his love and his attention and it hurts more than anything to think he gives that away freely to co-workers, friends, our boys and his parents but not me. The "most important person" in his life my ass.


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## lovebugfoosa (Sep 26, 2010)

Hey! I hear ya on the words vs action issue, it seems like they wanna try and then they dont... at all. Even when I go way out of my way to make an effort like compliments, i love you's, actions, etc i get get nothing in return. I haven't decided if they are oblivious and dont get it or if the relationship is too damaged to repair. Even when I get frustrated and bring up his lack of effort/action/anything he just repeats his words of yes i wanna work on the relationship etc etc. I just wanted to relate, i am still learning myself and wanted to be let in on any tips. One thing that does seem to make the relationship better is spending time together to just get to know each other again and sometimes all those fun things that you wanna do happen bc you get carried away in the moment. idk i hope it helps a littleish! good luck!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It frusterates me, I was that guy , for 19 years I dismissed my W.
I wish I had some great wisdom that brought me to were I/we are today. 
I hope he wakes up soon, believe me, a spouse will do some ugly thing for self preservation when ther need aren't met. and he is a fool for not understanding that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I've been in the same boat for 30 years. I'll tell you the ONLY thing that has worked: I finally told him that I'm thinking of leaving him if things don't changed. 

Then HE changed.


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## takris (Sep 22, 2010)

I think that when you are ready to deal with whatever consequence you dictate, you'll probably just have to tell him to use his project management skills to give you a workable plan of demonstrated behaviours, with defineable results. For your part, maybe you could commit to your own plan of actions to support the behaviors he will commit to.

Some people only move out of their comfort zone when they realize inevitable consequences. I see that you've worked with plans in the past, but the difference might just be the lack of consequences (when you feel that you have no other choice). Your offering of helpful books referenced above could be a step he chooses to incorporate into his plan.

For me, with a wife who suffers from personality disorder issues, I committed to supporting actions. So, since I'm a guy, I noted them on a notecard that I keep with me at all times. I was able to say the things she needed (and mean them), but her end didn't work out too well.


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

*Some words get through, but ...*



turnera said:


> I've been in the same boat for 30 years. I'll tell you the ONLY thing that has worked: I finally told him that I'm thinking of leaving him if things don't changed.
> 
> Then HE changed.


Brennan,

If you change Turnera's he/him to she/her and 30 to many, I could have said that. 

W has changed for the better recently, actions finally matching words after a multi year series of too many rejections, too many "I know, I'll change", but after I used Leaving and Divorce in the span of five minutes she heard me. It didn't seem to hit home until days later, but it did.

At this time I think you need to raise these topics, a broom and a rug is not the way to deal with them if you want a fulfilling marriage and life. 

I don't think your MC was effective, do you? He is either not hearing you, wants to separate or divorce, or thinks you would rather stay married than leave.

Like other spouses who have been rejected repeatedly and not heard for years, I'm dubious these actions will stick, even if they do there are still big problems ahead of us, not the least my lingering anger.

I mention this because you need to find out if he decides he wants to change and does, would you want to stay married?

Mark


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Thank you all for your responses. We met today for lunch, at my asking. I told him that I was unhappy with us and he said he knew. I told him his words vs. actions don't match. I then painted a scenario of this: 'A man cheats on his wife. She finds out and is crushed. He sees her hurting and says "but honey, I only love you".' What do his words vs. actions mean to her? His words mean nothing. His actions spoke louder than his words. My husband gave me a blank stare and said "but honey, I am not cheating on you nor ever will". Huh? THAT'S what he took out of what I said?! I left.
Driving back to work I was fuming and by the time I got to work I was seeing red. I fired off a message to him basically telling him that he is void of caring and compassion (and not in such nice words). He wrote back that I make it "impossible for him to want to do nice things for me since I am overly critical of him, belittling and always looking for something wrong". I fired back that maybe I behave like that now because of YEARS of neglect, being ignored and last on his list. He then tries to pull out the chicken/egg theory of which came first. Well seeing as I was happy when I walked down the aisle and really felt important to him, he can shove his "theory" up his ass. 
So I guess what he expects/wants out of me is to be praising, adoring, caring, smiling and accepting. I shouldn't point out that this anniversary weekend will literally make it 7 months since we went out as a couple. I shouldn't point out that nothing on my list has even been attempted by him. I shouldn't point out that I sit in a room with him trying to have a conversation but he can't be bothered to make eye contact, since his computer is more important. Nope, shouldn't do anything to upset his feelings. I should just smile and believe him when he says "I love you" and that I am "the most important person in his life". 
I think I married an emotional idiot.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Read this: His Needs Her Needs.

You are BOTH in default. You BOTH need to fix your side. HE had just as many valid points as you do. 

If you want him to fix his side, you have to be willing to fix YOUR side. 

Are you?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Can I ask the guys out there a question? I was thinking real hard about our relationship today and I have come to this conclusion. My husband never wanted to take care of me. 
Don't most husbands want to please their wife? I am not taking about kissing ass. I am talking about husbands who enjoy going out with their wife, spending time with their wife, doing nice things for their wife, going on vacations with their wife and "protecting" their wife. He has never done that. Ever. 
Don't most husband WANT to do this? Am I wrong here?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read Men Are From Mars? You don't seem to understand the DIFFERENCE between how men and women operate. Educate yourself.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Can I ask the guys out there a question? I was thinking real hard about our relationship today and I have come to this conclusion. My husband never wanted to take care of me.
> Don't most husbands want to please their wife? I am not taking about kissing ass. I am talking about husbands who enjoy going out with their wife, spending time with their wife, doing nice things for their wife, going on vacations with their wife and "protecting" their wife. He has never done that. Ever.
> Don't most husband WANT to do this? Am I wrong here?


 Most men replace their mothers with their wives. They, therefore, WANT to avoid getting in trouble.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Turnera,
I value your input tremendously. Your posts are always spot on. So what now? I mean, how do I fix my side when the anger and hurt is so vast that with each additional hurt I get more and more angry?
Just the most recent example was 3 weeks ago (my birthday). He had purchased gifts "from the boys" and made certain to tell me (repeatedly) that they were from "the boys". Nothing from him. He said that we would go out to dinner "as a family" the next day. We didn't. It's been 3 weeks. So again, how do you let go of that? And now multiply this times 17 years of the same neglect and hurt.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

So going out with me would equate getting in to trouble? I don't understand that. I just want to have fun with him. I am not looking to cause trouble. 
Please elaborate.


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

I have always taken care of my lovers, wives, children, guests, the people who reported to me at work, my close male friends behave in the same way even when the marriage is falling apart. I take care of my kids, took care of my parents to the extent I could while living on the opposite coast.

This is a fundamental part of my being - I take care of my loved ones. Is this because I was the big brother? because my mother loved me? because my father loved me? I don't think it matters, it is.

I'm one of the nice guys, the quiet fellows, the ones the flashy girls ignore the first time around. Despite my once wish that I connected with one of these flashy females, I've realized that way too many of these women are as self centered and lousy partners as the guys they choose. 

Mark






Brennan said:


> Can I ask the guys out there a question? I was thinking real hard about our relationship today and I have come to this conclusion. My husband never wanted to take care of me.
> Don't most husbands want to please their wife? I am not taking about kissing ass. I am talking about husbands who enjoy going out with their wife, spending time with their wife, doing nice things for their wife, going on vacations with their wife and "protecting" their wife. He has never done that. Ever.
> Don't most husband WANT to do this? Am I wrong here?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Mark,
Thank you. He takes care of his loved ones too. I am just not one of them. Our children come first, his parents second, friends third and co-workers fourth. I am an afterthought.
Over the years he has made excuse after excuse as to why he couldn't "do" certain things for me. Dates, vacations, special things. When times were tight he would say he couldn't afford to buy me a Christmas gift, birthday gift, you name it. Funny (not really), I always managed to get him what he wanted. Always. If that meant working extra hours or during the really lean early years selling something of mine, I did it. He never did. Just excuses. I learned years ago to get what I wanted and just wrap it up and put it under the tree so the boys would think it was from him. Sickening. I should have let them see back then exactly who he was. He got a pass...for years. THAT is my fault. 
Again I go back to words vs. actions. He will tell me until he is blue in his face how much he loves me. Really? Just really?


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Don't how to comfort you Brennan.
I just know when my husband does something for me, I feel very sweet and I want to do more to show my love for him.

Tiny tiny things, like I am sick, I don't like to take medicine, my husband will get water and medicine ready and make me take it. I have a rash, I ignore it. My husband will ask me to show him my leg and put cream on it. 

For the things you listed on your list, if you husband is considerate of you, he should have done it. It is not much to request. You can do all the things alone without him, but the feeling is different. You just want to feel being loved by him and do all the things together. 

A lot of men are so wrapped up in their own business world, they ignore the duties of being loving and caring husbands. 

But what is their goal in their life? Become successful in a business world and feel important among men? Who is going to spend the rest of his life with him when he is not working. If he doesn't have a sweet relationship with his wife, at that time, where will he get that satisfying feeling like he has now?

Just want men to think, what is more important? 
Work or wife? 

Put some effort on your wife, make her a happy wife, and you will get a lot in return!!!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

GP,
Thank you for your response. He is not wrapped up in business. When he gets home, he is HOME. He is there for the boys, talking on the phone to his parents and checking in with his friends. I am an afterthought however. Any additional effort that he has to exert for me is none. After a stressful day and after the boys are in bed, he fires up his laptop and starts playing a game. We sit in the same room. I try to engage him. Nothing. He will smile and nod and pretend like he is listening but he isn't. He doesn't make eye contact with me. The only time he will realize what he is doing is when I get pissed off and tell him to close his laptop and listen to me. He has an expression like he is being executed. 
He is a good person. If I am sick, he DOES bring me whatever I need without any prompting. He always makes sure that I have enough gas in my car and checks my tires daily. Weird, right? He always makes sure to stuff $20 in purse "just in case" regardless of how much money I have in my wallet. These are just things he does. So why go through these things if he doesn't deliver on the larger issues? It's like he is trying to be good guy but won't do the things that are the most important to me. I don't get it.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Brennan said:


> GP,
> Thank you for your response. He is not wrapped up in business. When he gets home, he is HOME. He is there for the boys, talking on the phone to his parents and checking in with his friends. I am an afterthought however. Any additional effort that he has to exert for me is none. After a stressful day and after the boys are in bed, he fires up his laptop and starts playing a game. We sit in the same room. I try to engage him. Nothing. He will smile and nod and pretend like he is listening but he isn't. He doesn't make eye contact with me. The only time he will realize what he is doing is when I get pissed off and tell him to close his laptop and listen to me. He has an expression like he is being executed.
> He is a good person. If I am sick, he DOES bring me whatever I need without any prompting. He always makes sure that I have enough gas in my car and checks my tires daily. Weird, right? He always makes sure to stuff $20 in purse "just in case" regardless of how much money I have in my wallet. These are just things he does. So why go through these things if he doesn't deliver on the larger issues? It's like he is trying to be good guy but won't do the things that are the most important to me. I don't get it.


Sounds like he is a caring husband in many ways. 
Please don't feel offended, sounds like he doesn't like talking to you. Sounds like you don't have good conversation with him. He would rather be alone than talk to you. Is that right? 

Once I saw a post said that he loves his wife a lot, but he doesn't know what to talk to her. They don't have the same kind of interest. 

He is ignoring your emotional needs. Hope he understands. What does he like to talk about? Have you ever tried to talk things he likes to talk and he still ignores you? What does he like to do? If you want to do things he likes to do, what does he feel? Will he try to do things you like to do?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Damn, are you married to me? I think I know you .
Any way I agree people will move out of there comfort zone when there is bad stuff coming there way.(I can't spell consiquences)

Brennan, I thought leaving lunch was bad, could there have been another way to get your point accross? 
I see you are getting sick of his grap but then you pail on lunch with out accomplishing anything, way waste the time in setting up a meeting? You've known hin long enough.
Like me, most idiots need help when it comes to matters of the heart so pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one my help use understand. Never assume us idiots get what our spouses are telling us. Resenting us just confusses us even more. 
I still think you should draw up some fake D papers or super impose a picture of you kissing another guy, that will get his attention;-)
Try this; when he goes to sleep play a recording that repeats "show your wife effection" over and over again, until morning, do it for a week. (if you can wait that long)
Any way good luck girl in get that light bulb to come on.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Thank you Green and The Guy,
Yes, he is caring in a sense of obligation. He does the basics, always has. I know he doesn't like talking to me anymore. I feel so lost. I am so hurt. 
The guy, I have written out a list of what I need. Black ink on a white paper. I don't think he can use the excuse of not "knowing" what I need and I don't think a Powerpoint presentation is what he needs. He knows, he choses to do other things. 
As for resenting him, well that grows every day. I am just so upset. I did laugh a bit at your subliminal message of "show your wife affection" with tapes.  But then it turned to sadness. Shouldn't he want to show me affection? I don't want to be with a man who I have to "tell" to love me. It sucks and it hurts more than anything.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Thank you Green and The Guy,
> Yes, he is caring in a sense of obligation. He does the basics, always has. I know he doesn't like talking to me anymore. I feel so lost. I am so hurt.
> The guy, I have written out a list of what I need. Black ink on a white paper. I don't think he can use the excuse of not "knowing" what I need and I don't think a Powerpoint presentation is what he needs. He knows, he choses to do other things.
> As for resenting him, well that grows every day. I am just so upset. I did laugh a bit at your subliminal message of "show your wife affection" with tapes.  But then it turned to sadness. Shouldn't he want to show me affection? I don't want to be with a man who I have to "tell" to love me. It sucks and it hurts more than anything.


I had this experience with my EX, not my loving husband now. 
I wanted him to be more romantic in bed, he couldn't understand why. He was like erection, go in, shoot, finish, he didn't even kiss anymore. I am a very romantic woman, I want romantic sex. We even went to get help by talking to somebody. Anyway, he didn't change. Then I got lost, I made my decision to leave, not just because of sex, there were other reasons. Oh, man, did he ever want to try hard to keep me? He wanted to kiss me, he wanted to lick me, he wanted to do all the things I wanted, but once a woman's love is gone, it is gone, he didn't even have the opportunity to get back what he had lost. 

I don't want you to take this step. I think your husband knows how sad you are, but I don't think he knows how serious it is!!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Turnera,
> I value your input tremendously. Your posts are always spot on. So what now? I mean, how do I fix my side when the anger and hurt is so vast that with each additional hurt I get more and more angry?


You take a deep breath and accept the fact that YOU are here learning, and he is not. Therefore, it has to be YOU who does the heavy lifting for a while until you get your marriage back on track. It sucks, but that's how it works. Just accept it, do the hard work, bite your tongue, and see what happens. Give yourself a deadline, and determine at that point if you've seen any progress.



> Just the most recent example was 3 weeks ago (my birthday). He had purchased gifts "from the boys" and made certain to tell me (repeatedly) that they were from "the boys". Nothing from him. He said that we would go out to dinner "as a family" the next day. We didn't. It's been 3 weeks. So again, how do you let go of that? And now multiply this times 17 years of the same neglect and hurt.


 How? By TELLING HIM THE TRUTH. That he is Love Busting you like crazy and that each time he does it, you lose a little more love for him, and you will eventually reach the point where you just LEAVE.

So many of us women hold our resentment like a sweater - it comforts us, it gives us a purpose, it makes us the victim and him the bad guy. Instead of speaking our mind, setting boundaries, and then following through if our needs aren't met.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Can I ask the guys out there a question? I was thinking real hard about our relationship today and I have come to this conclusion. *My husband never wanted to take care of me. *
> Don't most husbands want to please their wife? I am not taking about kissing ass. I am talking about husbands who enjoy going out with their wife, spending time with their wife, doing nice things for their wife, going on vacations with their wife and "protecting" their wife. He has never done that. Ever.
> Don't most husband WANT to do this? Am I wrong here?


You are making what's called a DJ: Disrespectful Judgment. That means that you ASSUME what he is thinking. Of course he wants to take care of you. Or at least at one point he did. Most likely, over the years, he's tried to do things, gotten shot down, felt like he has no clue what you want, or just generally gave up.

We all have dysfunction in the way we interact with each other, based on how we saw our parents do it. We all have our baggage. We all have our DJs. Put two people together who aren't completely, utterly, and ALWAYS 100% honest with each other, and you end up with two people on opposing sides. 

You're miserable. He most likely is, too. Have you ever asked him what he thinks about, how he feels, if he feels like he's making you happy, if HE is happy?

Have I suggested that you read the book His Needs Her Needs? Get it today. Learn what it means to nurture a marriage. Once you start doing YOUR half, he will probably (not a guarantee) want to start doing his half.

Going out doesn't equate to getting in trouble. I'm saying that he probably feels like nothing he does is ever right. That he knows you're unhappy, but has tried things that don't work, and doesn't understand what to do to get out of the doghouse. Just like most husbands. Because the woman holds her resentment in, he senses it, and he retreats and gives up.

Communication is the key to your problem. IMO


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Mark,
> Thank you. He takes care of his loved ones too. I am just not one of them. Our children come first, his parents second, friends third and co-workers fourth. I am an afterthought.
> Over the years he has made excuse after excuse as to why he couldn't "do" certain things for me. Dates, vacations, special things. When times were tight *he would say he couldn't afford to buy me a Christmas gift*, birthday gift, you name it. Funny (not really), *I always managed to get him what he wanted*. Always. If that meant working extra hours or during the really lean early years selling something of mine, I did it. He never did. Just excuses. *I learned years ago to get what I wanted and just wrap it up and put it under the tree so the boys would think it was from him.* Sickening. I should have let them see back then exactly who he was. He got a pass...for years. THAT is my fault.
> Again I go back to words vs. actions. He will tell me until he is blue in his face how much he loves me. Really? Just really?


 People treat you the way you TEACH them to treat you. You didn't get what you wanted, yet you acted like it was alright, and took care of him anyway, and even HELPED him do this to you by buying your own gift. Without telling him what it was doing to his marriage.

My DH tried to do that to me when we were first married. He didn't 'believe' in 'having' to buy gifts when 'society' told him to (birthday, Valentines Day, Christmas) - he just wanted to be the cool, hip guy who showered me with gifts when HE wanted to. The first year, he ignored my birthday. Gave me that crap excuse. So when his birthday rolled around, I ignored it as well. He was furious! How dare I! What kind of wife was I, who couldn't give her husband a birthday gift?

I just shrugged and said 'you didn't feel like you had to give me a gift on MY birthday, so I just assumed you didn't expect one, either.'

He never missed it again.

I TAUGHT him how to treat me. Mind you, I TOLD him what it was about. I didn't just ignore his birthday and go about my business and build a wall of resentment on both our parts - I TOLD him why I did it, so he could LEARN. 

All you've done is enable him to mistreat you. And now you resent him like crazy. When you could have done something about it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Brennan said:


> GP,
> Thank you for your response. He is not wrapped up in business. When he gets home, he is HOME. He is there for the boys, talking on the phone to his parents and checking in with his friends. I am an afterthought however. Any additional effort that he has to exert for me is none. After a stressful day and after the boys are in bed, he fires up his laptop and starts playing a game. We sit in the same room. I try to engage him. Nothing. He will smile and nod and pretend like he is listening but he isn't. He doesn't make eye contact with me. The only time he will realize what he is doing is when I get pissed off and tell him to close his laptop and listen to me. He has an expression like he is being executed.
> He is a good person. If I am sick, he DOES bring me whatever I need without any prompting. He always makes sure that I have enough gas in my car and checks my tires daily. Weird, right? He always makes sure to stuff $20 in purse "just in case" regardless of how much money I have in my wallet. These are just things he does. So why go through these things if he doesn't deliver on the larger issues? It's like he is trying to be good guy but won't do the things that are the most important to me. I don't get it.


He doesn't KNOW what things are most important to you.

Print out this thread and hand it to him. THEN he'll know.

The thing is, we all have our different love language. HIS love language (how he shows you he loves you) is to make sure your car is safe, you have emergency money, you've got what you need when you're sick. In HIS mind, he IS showing you he loves you, and he can't figure out why you're so unhappy.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I'm responding in this thread, well cuz it's yours and not about keeping house. You can always ask one of the mods to move this thread to an appropriate sub-forum of your choosing.

I like your list. Especially the airport and wild kingdom bit. Pretty tame, reasonable and all completely doable.

As I'm sure you are well aware by now, there are some really good people, with really good input here.

I think a few people have mentioned marriagebuilders.com. There are some excellent guides there.

I tried these things. I suggested counseling. I suggested 'dating'. I suggested 'fake it till you make it'. She suggested Mort Fertel. She suggested that we lose so much if we give it up. She suggested just being 'nice' to one another.

We tried. In the end nothing changed. Nobody got what they needed. Honestly? I don't even know what she needs any more. I'm not sure she knows either.

I do know what I want. Specifically, I'm referring to what I want and need from my partner. I know that she is capable of delivering it. She no longer believed herself capable, nor did she desire to. She believed whatever she tried, wouldn't be good enough in my eyes. 

She was never going to be the one to pull the plug. Not ever. She was perfectly content with her passive aggressive, avoidant and dismissive treatment of me as her lover and romantic partner, and was quite happy with me as a housemate, provider and parenting partner.

Sound familiar to you?

I have stated elsewhere that I believe if your marriage can be saved, then you should do everything you can to save it, and shape it into the very thing that we convince ourselves must exist elsewhere.

Because the dirty secret is, that the elsewhere, and the other man, or other woman is invariably going to march down the same, or very similar path that you have just traversed with your spouse.

I'm really not so sure that the journey quite so much depends upon the person as it does the tools that person brings with them.

Ask your husband the same question that Conrad asked you.

"Do you want this marriage to work?"

I will presume that he will give the rote answer of "Yes, of course I do."

Then ask him, "Why?"
This answer is actually more important than the first question. This is where the respondent has to articulate why they value the marriage, and you may discover that why they value the marriage has little to do with _you_. You just need to pay very close attention to what they say.

"The kids."
"We made a vow."
"I remember how we used to be."
"Money"
"We've put so much into this, it would be a shame to throw it away."

We still loved each other when we put our marriage on DNR. We decided to let it go because there wasn't going to be any more 'quality of life'. Our marriage died of cancer and Alzheimer's. 

So my question to you is a little different. Are you just angry and fed up, or are you prepared to let him go? Are you ready to take your marriage off life support?

If not, you should call the crash cart and take all steps necessary to revive the patient. If the patient doesn't respond, let the bitterness go, acknowledge that you did what you could, and say your goodbyes respectfully.

Then go find your life again, and accept that the premise sounds far more enticing than the reality. You will work just as hard at building a new life as would be required to save the one you have now.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Deejo,
I just saw you posted. I had forgotten about this post of mine. Do I want this to work? YES!!! 
As for my husband's response to that question of "Do you want this marriage to work", I have already asked that and without hesitation he said "yes, I love you, I've always loved you, you are the love of my life". I KNOW he loves me, he doesn't show it however. He knows I need that part. 
This part is going to be LOOOONG so fair warning: Our relationship is a complicated one that goes back 30 years. We met at the age of 9. We hated each other at first but then became friends. Dear friends. Fast forward a bit: At 17 he asked me to marry him "when we got older" and I freaked out! While I had developed a crush on him too, I wasn't at the same point he was! It really shocked me. I was stunned and sadly, I stopped talking with him for 2 years. At 19, I moved away without telling him.
So there I was living in a different city with my boyfriend, "the love of my life". My life spiraled out of control. We were partying every night, living on the edge. I got involved in some bad things (I have posted about that) and "the love of my life" (**snort**) became verbally abusive. During that time I thought about my (now) husband alot. My mind wouldn't let it go, ever. It was a voice screaming out to me....ditch the jerk and be with your true love. I wanted to hold him and hug him and make love with him (for the first time), but I didn't. Instead, I had dreams about him, thoughts and I felt anxious all the time. I was young and in a bad place. I thought that by writing down my thoughts, it would ease me. I did and "******* of my life" found it. He read my diary and verbal abuse turned into physical abuse beyond words. I'll spare you further details but that was my last night with him. I fled the apartment and went down to the Manager's office. She called the police. I then called my Mom and told her everything. What I had done, the lifestyle, the abuse, all of it. She was frantic and wanted me out of there as fast as possible and "home". A 3 hour drive wasn't quick enough for her. She called my (now) husband as she knew his best friend was within 20 minutes of me (a friend I have also known for years, part of our group). He called his friend who was attending college near me. Best friend rushes over, goes into the apartment, gets all my clothes and drives me 3 hours to get back home. The conversation is strained to say the least. He blurts out that I am a ***** and that I hurt his best friend beyond words. He told me that bf dated two other girls but dumped them because they are not "me". He had anger in his eyes and I don't blame him.
I arrive safely back at Mom's and 1 day later (now) husband shows up at our door with sunflowers in hand, my favorite flower. He says "I'm so glad you're back, I have missed you". We started dating that moment. Been married 17 years. The love has always been there, we just don't show it anymore and that's what I need. Would you pull the plug on that history? I won't in a million years.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Nope. I wouldn't.


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## changehappens (Sep 14, 2010)

You sound in some ways like my wife only a lot more angry. Briefly, we've been married 24 yrs and are on the verge of the end. 

Your situation sounds so similar to mine in that it's complicated, has many angles and strange fundamental relationship problems, and a lot of history. You recently posted about your history and how, after all of what's happened, how it would be so hard to toss it all away. Basically, I think it would be a mistake on your part, as well as your H's, to consider the 'history' part in making any decision about the future. I know, I've done that - still do in fact - but have come to realize that while it may FEEL important, and may seem to have validity on the future, what really matters is what you do from today forward.

You sound like you are carrying a million tons of resentment around on your shoulders (my problem also). Guaranteed - resentment is not going to be a useful tool in fixing a bad situation. I can also guarantee that your husband sees that ton of resentment on your shoulders and he does not see it as an attractive accessory. Hence - he ignores you because it's the easiest thing to do. I know I take the path of least resistance when it comes to conflict resolution with my wife - it's usually not the best way to go - but after so many years of dysfunctional love/communication, it is definitely the easiest thing to do. I truly get so tired of always talking about "IT". I just what it to be easy and fun! 

My wife explained a couple of things to me the other day in terms that were easy to understand (at least on the surface). She said we occupied opposite ends of the spectrum when it came to how we communicated and related to each other in an empathetic manner. I being the more distant one –she being the one more willing to open up and understand things. She says I have a hard time being “real” – I find it hard to understand what she really means by that. 

Anyway – I don’t want to make this about my story – it’s your story. IMO, based on what I’ve read by Greenpearl , she exemplifies a good model of what a good relationship between a man and a woman looks like. I’m betting that if you could somehow put your anger out of the picture and quit looking for all that affection, caring, concern, and all the other stuff you think is missing from your relationship and just focus on turning the little things in each day into the important things, you might see a positive change in your relationship. I know that if my wife could just forget about all those needs she has that are first required from me to make it work for her, she would be a much more appealing woman to me and then she, as well as I, would become much happier people. I firmly believe that the woman in any romantic/physical relationship ultimately has the power to make it either good or bad. The problem is that few women realize they have that power, and of those few, even fewer know how to use that power to really make things good. That’s my 2 cents – or whatever it’s worth to you.


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

"The love has always been there, we just don't show it anymore and that's what I need. Would you pull the plug on that history? I won't in a million years."

I first of all apologize for not reading the entire thread. Secondly, you said "we" don't show. Did you try leading? Showing him love first, for an extended period of time (a month, maybe two) without expecting anything in return and seeing if he follows the lead?
People get used to being lazy in relationships. Like all other habits, this one has to be surpassed progressively, with training and persistence.

Also people are sometimes reluctant to do whatever doesn't feel natural/instinctual to them. They don't understand that it's because they think it's not natural, that it's not. Hard to explain. The idea is...start doing whatever it is you want from your guy, chances are he'll mimic your behavior. 

Last...did you try really keeping your eyes open on whether he's proving that he loves you. We WANT certain things to feel loved. Our partner may be doing completely other things because that's what they think they should do to make us feel loved. If you're expecting hugs and kisses and he shows his love by mowing the lawn (just an example), it's only natural that you'll both feel bad. You'll still be angry you're not getting hugs, he'll be angry because he's not being praised for mowing the lawn. Do this for a year, resentment builds up, none of you will want to give anything. 
As always, i'm recommending something that i'm having trouble doing myself, although i have the feeling that it's the right thing to do . The bad part of all this is that you'll naturally think "why do I have to change? He should". The good part is that if you start, you'll be making YOUR future happy  So good luck.


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## fourofus (Oct 9, 2010)

Brennan I feel for you I'm in the same position you are. I have been married for 11 years and all I get are words. For example yesterday was the 3rd day in the love dare book which is buy your spouse a small gift. Did I get one? Nope... When I asked about it he said I really wanted to but I didn't know what to get blah blah blah I love you so much blah blah blah.. I have come to the conclusion that love is as much as a necessity as food, water and air. They have done studies on children who are feed, changed and kept warm but with out love those children just don't seem to be ok. I guess their care takers could even stand over their cribs and say I love you, I love you but with out holding, touching etc... the out come is the same. I have no words of wisdom or advise but I feel your pain. And yes I did buy him a gift and have read all the books everyone has mentioned on this post. I have given so much love and affection and yet to receive anything back. Someone said on here you teach people how to treat you and I think they are right. But I also think you can't teach old dogs new tricks. So this will be it for me until I get the guts up to leave.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Have you read Richard Schwartz?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Turnera has really good advice, in my opinion.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

From your last post I wouldn't doubt your husband is scared of losing you. He probably thinks he's holding on by a string and does a lot of ignoring because if he confronts the issue head on you may leave without notice again just as you did many years ago and at the lunch date (I bet that was a big trigger for him). Many can forgive but few can forget. Instead of threatening divorce I would reinforce that you are there for the long haul. Don't always look to discuss the relationship when you're on a lunch date or just hanging. Find away to have fun. See a funny movie together, bowl, etc. 

When talking about the relationship start with one issue that YOU could do better. Don't be defensive. don't argue. Take it to heart. I would guess his main issue is how you talk to him. Agree to work on that issue. Set a date for a "working date" Where you talk about how you've done on on that specific issue. I'm sure you will put your all into it and he'll be pleased. Bring up one issue that you would like HIM to be better at. Be specific, us men don't like riddles. Make it plain as day. (Example: I need you to show more affection. I would like you to begin by holding hands, hugs in the morning, Cuddling, and kisses goodnight) Set up the next "working date" to review progress. Read the books Tunera posted. My wife and I came up with a couple that we would like to mirror our marriage after and that became our vision of marriage. You and your husband should come up with your own vision for your marriage. Good luck.


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