# Can't take it anymore - how to ask H to leave



## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

Hi. I am unable to figure out how to link my prior post, but if anyone is interested in BG, please look up my post. It's the only one I have. Long story short, I have come to the conclusion that I can no longer live with my DH and still be sane. I am no longer in love with him or I cannot access it- haven't been able to for about a year. We have only been married for 3 years, and have an almost 3 year old son. We have had financial problems from the get go b/c of his inability/unwillingness (combo of both I believe) to find a decent job. He is employed, but it results in about 15k a year total. I work FT and go to school. I make a decent salary, but not enough to support us all by myself. I have spent the last year trying everything I can think of to suppress the mounting dissatisfaction with my marriage, but it is no longer possible. I feel like the only choice I have left is to ask him to leave. We cannot afford to divorce, but I can't live like this any longer. Even though I mention only the financial issue, there are other factors that lead me to believe it is truly over. How do I ask him to leave when I know he has nowhere to go? I am physically sick at this point so I know a decision needs to be made, but how do you guys suggest I break the news?


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

I have already consulted an attorney. FL is a no fault state, and a parenting plan is required to be filed with the court in order to divorce. I don't even know that I am ready to take legal action, but I cannot live in the same house with him anymore. That is my dilemma. I want to believe that space and time would change my mind, but I am not naive enough to think that is likely.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

vampfan75 said:


> ...how do you guys suggest I break the news?


Short, simple, direct.

Tell him exactly what you told us. His refusal to find a good job and contribute meaningful income to the family has caused you great distress and now you are physically ill. You realize his goals and commitment to a successful marriage/family are not the same as yours. Your feelings have changed, you no longer wish to be married to him, and you will be filing for divorce.

By law, you can't just kick him out of his home so give him an option. Either you are leaving or he can leave (I assume he can't afford your current housing on his meager salary) so he will have to find a roommate or a buddy's house to crash at. Tell him if you are the one who leaves, you will no longer pay the rent at the current home so he will be out anyway. Give him (or you) a reasonable amount of time to find new living arrangements, 30 days seems realistic.

Then follow through.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

Why did your get married and have a son with him if you weren't happy with his work ethic? Three years is not long enough to quit a marriage. His son needs his Dad is life. Do you really want to be a single Mom? You sound busy and probably don't see your son much. I think you shouldn't worry about him leaving the house (unless there is abuse or addiction problems) and work on your marriage. Don't be selfish and just be concerned about your happiness, you have a son to worry about too.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Short, simple, direct.
> 
> Tell him exactly what you told us. His refusal to work and contribute meaningful income to the family has caused you great distress and now you are physically ill. You realize his goals and commitment to a successful marriage/family are not the same as yours. Your feelings have changed, you no longer wish to be married to him, and you will be filing for divorce.
> 
> ...


Wow, I know you probably didn't intend it, but your suggestion that I leave the house instead really got me thinking about how harsh my plan of action sounds. I can't even fathom being the one who doesn't get to see my son every day. He is everything to me. I don't WANT to take my son away from his father, but I don't know what else to do. We are already in counseling, but it doesn't seem to be working. He hasn't taken anything to heart it appears, and acts like our counseling sessions are the only time I expect him to communicate with me. Nothing has changed at home. I feel like this drastic measure is the only thing that will get through to him. I don't know what to do.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

vampfan75 said:


> Wow, I know you probably didn't intend it, but your suggestion that I leave the house instead really got me thinking about how harsh my plan of action sounds. *I can't even fathom being the one who doesn't get to see my son every day.* He is everything to me.


I certainly didn't mean for you to leave your son behind! If you leave, of course you take your son with you. You have just as much right to take your son to a new residence as he does to keep him at the old one. That will all get sorted out eventually through a custody agreement, but until that process gets started your son stays with you.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Vampfan75
If you are determined to leave, then I think the best approach is "no fault". 

"I'm sorry, but I am not happy in this marriage and I don't think there is any chance things will get better. I want a divorce". 

Don't get into a "blame" game. It isn't important that he believe it is his fault.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> I certainly didn't mean for you to leave your son behind! If you leave, of course you take your son with you. You have just as much right to take your son to a new residence as he does to keep him at the old one. That will all get sorted out eventually through a custody agreement, but until that process gets started your son stays with you.


The issue there is that the house is mine. Bought before we even met. I have no intention of leaving the only home my son has ever known. Not to mention the fact that I have a very low mortgage payment and any movement at this point would be a move in the wrong financial direction. Makes no sense for me to leave.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Vampfan75
> If you are determined to leave, then I think the best approach is "no fault".
> 
> "I'm sorry, but I am not happy in this marriage and I don't think there is any chance things will get better. I want a divorce".
> ...


Thank you. I think my hesitation with saying this is my tiny reservation and small hope that making him move out wake him up to the realization that his inaction is no longer acceptable, and he will step up and do what he needs to do to provide for his family. I know it is a long shot, but the desire to not put my child through a lifetime of split time is what is driving that thought. If he could show me that he can be the provider I need as a partner, maybe my love would return and we could find a way to make it work.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Since the house is legally yours and belonged to you before you were married, you have a legal say over who can or can't live there.

Check with your attorney and find out what the law says about getting your husband out of a house YOU own.

Depending on what the lawyer says, I stand by my original advice. Give him 30 or 45 days to make suitable living arrangements. Allow generous visitation with your son. You are not trying to take your son away from his father, you simply no longer wish to be married.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Figure it all out first. Then present him with a workable plan. 

Who will keep the kid while you are at work and at school? 

Who will pay bills that are in both names (phone, insurance, car payment, etc...) 

What are your ideas for visitation? 

Will he be open to a discussion about this? My ex...and others I've heard about.... have refused to discuss separation, or have refused to leave the home (which is their right without the legal divorce).

Do you have a support group? It sure helps! 

Read up about custody in Florida. Knowledge is power. 

Find out about the courts in your area. One lawyer I talked to (when I lived in Fl) explained how a judge in one county was very "by-the-book", but the one in the next county was more open to the spouses making their own agreements, coming up with their own numbers, etc... Something else to think about! 

Consider actually filing for divorce as opposed to just discussing filing. That is so vague. Just because you file doesn't mean you ever have to finalize it. It's possible to get back together and cancel (or just not finish the divorce paperwork/court stuff). Also, if you go ahead with it, consider printing out a "marital settlement agreement". Even if you don't file it, it shows sincerity and planning head. It will also show that you are trying to be grown up and "fair", not just screwing him over. Plus, if he agrees to it (the division of assets and debt) it should carry over to the divorce settlement. 

Since Florida has no legal separation, as long as you do not get divorced you will be responsible for any and all debt jointly... even while you are "separated". It's all marital debt. Just something to think about.

There is a lot of planning and consideration once you've made the decision.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

SunnyT said:


> Figure it all out first. Then present him with a workable plan.
> 
> Who will keep the kid while you are at work and at school?
> 
> ...


Thank you. These are all things I have been thinking about and weighing over the last few months. Since 2012, FL has pretty much been pushing all divorcing couples to do 50/50 shared custody, unless it is not in the child's best interest to do so, and proving that has become difficult (according to the attorney I consulted). I do have a support system in place to help me with childcare, but my goal would be for my DH to be default childcare provider when I am unable to, and when he is available. The idea of filing and not actually going through with it has crossed my mind, but even just the initial paperwork is $400, and I don't want to do that just for a scare tactic. I guess I'm still conflicted.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

Lila said:


> Since this is your house then I agree, you should not leave it.
> 
> Did you lawyers say that you can force your husband to move out? I think Florida has a 30 eviction notice process.


The lawyer I talked to yesterday said that I cannot force him out if we are still married since it is the marital home, unless I can prove that there is some sort of abuse, which there is not. I am consulting another lawyer today and will confirm that. My DH is a genuinely good guy, and I am not trying to cause unnecessary animosity between us. I actually wake up every day wishing he would come to me and say he agrees with me so that I wouldn't feel like I am devastating him by asking him to leave.


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## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

Very often these announcements to an oblivious spouse does cause the motivation needed for him to turn things around. Without a very aggressive strategy to keep ut going it all is temporary. 

If he does makes some changes you have to keep the pressure on to keep it going. 

I would let him know you want him to leave immediately because that 30 days you give him will result in it dragging out to 6 months or never. 

You also need to tell him that you have noted the only time he communicates is in counseling and he has not taken things to heart.

If you decide if he wakes up to give him a chance then get something immediate from it like him following thru on your biggest pet peave immediately and then give a timeline for the other items you want action on. 

Be VERY clear what you expect so you can hang him with it if it backslides.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Sometimes playing ignorant is a good thing. I would never mention that you can't force him out, if he goes to a lawyer and finds out on his own so be it, deal with that then.

I would lean the discussion toward since the house was bought by you and is in your name it is your home and he is the one that needs to move. Maybe a bit harsh but honestly once the momentum toward divorce starts building you two will not be wanting to live in the same house.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

YupItsMe said:


> Very often these announcements to an oblivious spouse does cause the motivation needed for him to turn things around. Without a very aggressive strategy to keep ut going it all is temporary.
> 
> If he does makes some changes you have to keep the pressure on to keep it going.
> 
> ...


This is all good stuff, thank you. I am stuck between wanting to be nice and wanting to be firm. I know he truly in his heart believe that he is doing the best job that he can to change his job situation, and me forcing him out b/c I'm not happy with his efforts just seems cruel to me, even though I feel so unhappy and depressed every day. My gut tells me that I am fair to require actual results, but my heart can't stand to beat him up any farther.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Keep in mind, that separation/divorce as a scare tactic can explode in your face.

You have to at the very least, be prepared to lose him. He may go willingly, he may go happily. Since he isn't very forth-coming, there is no way to know. Some of them appear to be hurt, but everyone thrives and it all turns out well. Some adjust well to the idea, but like to "blame" you for being the one to give up. 

Bottom line.... be ok with your decision. Own it. 

What Cooper said makes sense too. Often, one partner does all the research and the other has no idea how all this works. Can you kick him out? No. He may not know that tho. Can you change the locks? Yep. But he is allowed to "break in" because it's his residence also. But he may not know this either. 

Prepare yourself for whatever happens. I remember trying to imagine all of the possible scenarios, and how I might react to each. (Easy to do when you are laying there awake trying to figure it all out anyway.) This helped, because nothing he did surprized me. Well, not catastrophically anyway. He may cry, he may rant and rave, he may be calm and shut down....he may do all of the above. (Mine did.... he also talked about really wierd old stuff that either didn't happen or made no sense). 

Just prepare yourself mentally. Sounds like you have it figured out legally.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Did he obtain his certifications to teach? Has he requested his child support be lowered in light of his new earnings? 

If no to both, he is not inclined to improve his/your financial situation. In short, he is using you. The fact that he is 50 years old and content to do a teenager's work speaks volumes. You're only 38, so move on to someone who has the same values and goals as yourself. You can't pity him out of his lethargy.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

happy as a clam said:


> I certainly didn't mean for you to leave your son behind! If you leave, of course you take your son with you. You have just as much right to take your son to a new residence as he does to keep him at the old one. That will all get sorted out eventually through a custody agreement, but until that process gets started your son stays with you.


He can petition the court to have their son returned to live full time at the family home. A parent cannot remove a child to live elsewhere without the consent of the other parent.

I know people do this all the time. If he wants to fight it, family law is on his side.

I've seen women who do this lose custody of their children.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

vampfan75 said:


> The issue there is that the house is mine. Bought before we even met. I have no intention of leaving the only home my son has ever known. Not to mention the fact that I have a very low mortgage payment and any movement at this point would be a move in the wrong financial direction. Makes no sense for me to leave.


You cannot kick him out of the house. It's his legal residence. He will not have to move out until there is a court order.

Now maybe you can convince him to move out sooner. he would be a fool to leave and leave his son with you. That could be construed to be abandonment.

You say that you are having financial problems now. 

If he leaves and takes his income with him, as low as it is, are you going to be able to support your self and your child?


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Did he obtain his certifications to teach? Has he requested his child support be lowered in light of his new earnings?
> 
> If no to both, he is not inclined to improve his/your financial situation. In short, he is using you. The fact that he is 50 years old and content to do a teenager's work speaks volumes. You're only 38, so move on to someone who has the same values and goals as yourself. You can't pity him out of his lethargy.


No he didn't. He did go through the application process, but when he received a letter stating that he would have to take college classes still in order to qualify, he gave up. Don't know about the child support, b/c I've not asked him lately, and he doesn't offer information. And even though intellectually believe that only he can help himself, it is hard to remove all support from the father of my child. I feel like I am in turn hurting my son.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> You cannot kick him out of the house. It's his legal residence. He will not have to move out until there is a court order.
> 
> Now maybe you can convince him to move out sooner. he would be a fool to leave and leave his son with you. That could be construed to be abandonment.
> 
> ...


That is what I am worried about. I don't have any intention of keeping his son from him. Any time he wants with him he can have. But I also want space and want him to be forced to make it on his own so he realizes how much I am enabling his inaction. And yes, I have crunched the numbers. It will be VERY tight, and I will have to cut back on some things, but I can manage to support my son and myself on my salary alone, if for only the bare necessities. I already pay all household bills on my own. He only pays for food and incidentals. Again, I will have to cut back, but I believe I can manage. I am resentful that I will have to live a lifestyle that I have worked so hard to avoid in adulthood, but it is better than having no hope of ever having a different scenario, which is what I feel is the case if I stay with DH.


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## Marriedwithdogs (Jan 29, 2015)

I would hope that his little income isn't the only reason you want to divorce him. Most couples start out making very little and sometimes it's a slow climb up the ladder. I'm sure you've heard old couples who've been married 50+ yrs share how they ate baked beans for dinner, they weren't rich, but their love was. I only mention the amount bc you said he IS working.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

Marriedwithdogs said:


> I would hope that his little income isn't the only reason you want to divorce him. Most couples start out making very little and sometimes it's a slow climb up the ladder. I'm sure you've heard old couples who've been married 50+ yrs share how they ate baked beans for dinner, they weren't rich, but their love was. I only mention the amount bc you said he IS working.


No, our issues go beyond the financial believe me. Also, we are not kids. I am almost 40, and he is 51. This is a lifelong issue. It is not that he is CURRENTLY making a meager salary. It is his lack of ability/resources/willingless to move beyond it that is the problem.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

If he gets 50:50 custody, you may be paying him child support based n the difference between your income and his. Not sure how it is calculated in FL.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

cons said:


> If he gets 50:50 custody, you may be paying him child support based n the difference between your income and his. Not sure how it is calculated in FL.


Yes that was something I asked the lawyer about b/c that was a concern of mine. The lawyer said that though 50/50 custody is favored, that as long as both parties agree to the parenting plan, that we can be creative with the # of overnights to avoid either one of us paying the other. Of course, that is assuming that DH cooperates. If he doesn't, than I guess I can always fight him for custody and hope that my lawyer is smarter than his. I hope it doesn't get that far though.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> Since the house is legally yours and belonged to you before you were married, you have a legal say over who can or can't live there.


I doubt this is the least bit true.

They're married, she can't just kick him to the curb because the house belongs to her. 

You gotta watch the dispensing of legal advice if you aren't qualified.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

50:50 custody implies that you both will have equal # of overnights (otherwise it is not longer 50:50)...which means that the higher wage earner (if significant enough to the other parent) will need to pay child support. 

I currently pay child support to my ex husband because we have 50:50 custody...but that is what we chose was best for the kids.

I don't here anything from you that he is not a good father...please don't let money be the deciding factor as to how much time he gets with his son.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

He's not going to suddenly agree with you and pack his bags and walk out of your life.

If you do ultimately divorce, you may very well end up paying him alimony. And if he's working less than you are, he could probably make the case for being the child's primary caregiver, and he could end up with primary custody.

And.. as unbelievable as this may sound, he could end up awarded with temporary occupancy of the marital home for the good of the child, even though you owned it prior to the marriage.

It happens.


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## IamSomebody (Nov 21, 2014)

You could get a post-nuptial (similar to a pre-nup but done after the marriage commences) to protect your house and belongings. You can include any "rent" your H will pay while you are still married as well as any household expenses he must pay (you can make the"rent" include these." Assignment of household duties can be included. You can even include that, should the two of you split, neither pays the other alimony. Since you have only been married for three years alimony is *EXTREMELY* unlikely. Many judges are loathe to grant an adult male, capable of supporting himself, alimony.

You can *NOT* include custody, visitation or child support in the post-nup. Even though you are the parent, the courts don't allow you to use your child for negotiation for your benefit.

Speak with several shark-like divorce attorneys before deciding on one. Initial consultations are free and can help prevent them for representing H. You ONLY want an attorney with experience in preparing post-nups. You don't want to be somebody's trial case.

IamSomebody


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm sorry the positive update on your previous thread last July didn't pan out. 

It's unfortunate he didn't choose to take the college courses required so he could teach. When you discuss the situation with him, what does he say?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

lenzi said:


> I doubt this is the least bit true.
> 
> They're married, she can't just kick him to the curb because the house belongs to her.
> 
> You gotta watch the dispensing of legal advice if you aren't qualified.


Oh brother. You took that completely out of context lenzi, because you failed to quote the *rest* of what I said, PLUS what was *clarified* by the OP in a subsequent post:



happy as a clam said:


> *Check with your attorney* and find out what the law says about getting your husband out of a house YOU own.
> 
> *Depending on what the lawyer says,* I stand by my original advice.


And THIS:



vampfan75 said:


> *The lawyer I talked to yesterday said that I cannot force him out* if we are still married since it is the marital home, unless I can prove that there is some sort of abuse, which there is not.


I wasn't "dispensing" legal advice. I was bringing up valid issues to consider AFTER discussing with her attorney.
Perhaps you didn't read all the way through before you tossed that out.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

vampfan75 said:


> Hi. I am unable to figure out how to link my prior post, but if anyone is interested in BG, please look up my post. It's the only one I have. Long story short, I have come to the conclusion that I can no longer live with my DH and still be sane. I am no longer in love with him or I cannot access it- haven't been able to for about a year. We have only been married for 3 years, and have an almost 3 year old son. We have had financial problems from the get go b/c of his inability/unwillingness (combo of both I believe) to find a decent job. He is employed, but it results in about 15k a year total. I work FT and go to school. I make a decent salary, but not enough to support us all by myself. I have spent the last year trying everything I can think of to suppress the mounting dissatisfaction with my marriage, but it is no longer possible. I feel like the only choice I have left is to ask him to leave. We cannot afford to divorce, but I can't live like this any longer. Even though I mention only the financial issue, there are other factors that lead me to believe it is truly over. How do I ask him to leave when I know he has nowhere to go? I am physically sick at this point so I know a decision needs to be made, but how do you guys suggest I break the news?


I do think there's something you ought to consider in all this -- you said you're about 40 and he's 51, correct? And you married him and decided to have kids with him about 3 years ago.

So you were 37, and he was 48. You were old enough when you married him to have a pretty good idea about how life works, and he was old enough to be pretty much set in his ways. So, uh, what were you thinking exactly would happen? Did you think a guy making student wages at 48 was suddenly going to become a great provider when he hit 50?


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Happilymarried25 said:


> Why did your get married and have a son with him if you weren't happy with his work ethic? Three years is not long enough to quit a marriage. His son needs his Dad is life. Do you really want to be a single Mom? You sound busy and probably don't see your son much. I think you shouldn't worry about him leaving the house (unless there is abuse or addiction problems) and work on your marriage. Don't be selfish and just be concerned about your happiness, you have a son to worry about too.


So apparently living with a non contributing deadbeat, and supporting him the rest of your life is selfish?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here is a link to Florida statues for alimony. Did you discuss this with your attorney? 

There are two types of alimony. Temporary alimony can be awarded to the lower income spouse until the divorce is final. He could ask for this plus child support from you. It would be easier for him to get if he is not living in the same house with you.

Then there is the alimony that comes after divorce. Search the blow link for "short-term". That's a marriage under 7 years in length. That's is what applies to you. "Bridge-the-gap" and rehabilitative alimony could apply in your case.

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

You need to really have your ducks in a row before filing.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

lenzi said:


> I doubt this is the least bit true.
> 
> They're married, she can't just kick him to the curb because the house belongs to her.
> 
> ...


Ok sorry.

Kiss and make up?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

lenzi said:


> Ok sorry.
> 
> Kiss and make up?


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)




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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

cons said:


> 50:50 custody implies that you both will have equal # of overnights (otherwise it is not longer 50:50)...which means that the higher wage earner (if significant enough to the other parent) will need to pay child support.
> 
> I currently pay child support to my ex husband because we have 50:50 custody...but that is what we chose was best for the kids.
> 
> I don't here anything from you that he is not a good father...please don't let money be the deciding factor as to how much time he gets with his son.


Please don't misunderstand. I in no way want to limit the amount of time he ACTUALLY sees our son. I am just looking for the best way for each of us to live separately and still be able to afford it. If I pay him child support it will put a financial burden on me, and will probably not significantly improve his situation. My fear is that he will have to take a 2nd job to pay for a place to live, and that will increase my daycare costs and also make it impossible for him to see his son as close to a 50/50 split as we would both like. I'm just trying to be practical, not punish him.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Here is a link to Florida statues for alimony. Did you discuss this with your attorney?
> 
> There are two types of alimony. Temporary alimony can be awarded to the lower income spouse until the divorce is final. He could ask for this plus child support from you. It would be easier for him to get if he is not living in the same house with you.
> 
> ...


I realize that I may be required to pay him temporary alimony, but I don't see another option. If he can't afford to live outside the home, then I just have to accept that any money I give him is only aiding him in providing a better life for my son while he is with him.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

John Lee said:


> I do think there's something you ought to consider in all this -- you said you're about 40 and he's 51, correct? And you married him and decided to have kids with him about 3 years ago.
> 
> So you were 37, and he was 48. You were old enough when you married him to have a pretty good idea about how life works, and he was old enough to be pretty much set in his ways. So, uh, what were you thinking exactly would happen? Did you think a guy making student wages at 48 was suddenly going to become a great provider when he hit 50?


He had a job making over 40k a year when I met him. Even though that job disappeared through no fault of his own (company moved headquarters to another state), I had no reason to believe at the time that he couldn't just get another comparable job in the near future. It was not until we married that I realized the full extent of his inability to develop a career and his job history. I naively assumed that he had the ability to provide. My bad for not asking for a resume before I said I do I guess.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

Openminded said:


> I'm sorry the positive update on your previous thread last July didn't pan out.
> 
> It's unfortunate he didn't choose to take the college courses required so he could teach. When you discuss the situation with him, what does he say?


Thank you. He was discouraged by the idea of taking a couple of years and more money to qualify for yet another job. He did that a decade ago in order to qualify for accounting jobs, and was never able to get anywhere with it. And to be quite frank, with his track record, I'm not really on board with spending thousands of dollars on more education for him either. He can't seem to make it work for him.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Stop worrying about how he is going to make it. Isn't that pretty much THE issue? That he won't pull his weight? Separating because you want him to stand on his own? Then quit trying to figure out how you are going to help or hinder him. THAT is not your problem.

Do not offer to help him. If it ends up in court, and you are ordered...so be it. Until then, it's his problem. 

That is one difficult thing about the initial separation.... we are so used to worrying about them and helping them... it's hard to turn that off.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

SunnyT said:


> Stop worrying about how he is going to make it. Isn't that pretty much THE issue? That he won't pull his weight? Separating because you want him to stand on his own? Then quit trying to figure out how you are going to help or hinder him. THAT is not your problem.
> 
> Do not offer to help him. If it ends up in court, and you are ordered...so be it. Until then, it's his problem.
> 
> That is one difficult thing about the initial separation.... we are so used to worrying about them and helping them... it's hard to turn that off.


Thank you so much. Yes it is SO hard to break that cycle. I feel like I am leaving him high and dry, especially since no matter how many times I have told him he needs to act or I am going to divorce him, I don't think he has ever taken it seriously. I feel like this is my only option to show him that it is not ok, and not an idle threat. If and when I break the news he is going to act like a lost puppy, shocked that it has "gotten so bad" (words he has said in the past when we have visited this subject).


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm confused. Why would taking a second job decrease his 50:50 time? He would still have physical custody on his days (even if it includes daycare time). If you choose to use him as a care provider for your son, he would see his child during your 50% in addition to his 50%.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

cons said:


> I'm confused. Why would taking a second job decrease his 50:50 time? He would still have physical custody on his days (even if it includes daycare time). If you choose to use him as a care provider for your son, he would see his child during your 50% in addition to his 50%.


I guess because I'm thinking that a 2nd job will put him working nights, or at least 2nd shift, and how can he take our son if he isn't physically home with him in the evenings? IDK, the whole custody thing gives me a headache to be honest. I just want what is fair and best for my child.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why is it your fault that he has never taken you seriously? Yes, he probably will 'act' shocked but you know better. All he has done is pay lip service about improving the situation to get you off his back and continued on his merry way.

He is using you and preying on your kindness. Don't let him make you feel guilty for holding him accountable.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Why is it your fault that he has never taken you seriously? Yes, he probably will 'act' shocked but you know better. All he has done is pay lip service about improving the situation to get you off his back and continued on his merry way.
> 
> He is using you and preying on your kindness. Don't let him make you feel guilty for holding him accountable.


I want to be able to take this viewpoint, believe me. But I think he honestly believes that he has done everything he can to improve his situation. Also, because we have only been in counseling for a few sessions, he is going to take the stance that I haven't given him ample time to respond and make changes. But in the two weeks between sessions, he does nothing outwardly or communicates anything to me about the job unless I specifically ask or send him a lead or link to a job opportunity. I feel like this will never change.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Gently, he has improved his situation - he's got you improving his lifestyle. It isn't your fault he is where he is and it isn't your fault he hasn't found a better job. You've done your part in making up for his loss of income and giving him leads on jobs. He isn't interested.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Gently, he has improved his situation - he's got you improving his lifestyle. It isn't your fault he is where he is and it isn't your fault he hasn't found a better job. You've done your part in making up for his loss of income and giving him leads on jobs. He isn't interested.


Intellectually I understand that I have done my part and he isn't doing his. What I am having trouble with is that I believe his age and lack of progress have resulted in depression, which is further impeding any hope of change. I have mentioned depression to him, but he doesn't seem to give it much credit. I am afraid of pulling the rug out from under him and causing things to get worse instead of better. I don't want to destroy the father of my child. And this is all emotions speaking. I do understand that my feelings aren't exactly helping me right now.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It seems that you're more worried about his mental state than he is. If he says he isn't depressed, believe him.

Honestly, it seems that you're looking for excuses. You honestly don't have the kind of power to destroy him that you think you do.

You say he took accounting classes that never led to anything. Every year H&R Block hires people to help during tax season. The people they hire are no more qualified than your husband. If he wanted to improve his situation, he could and would.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> It seems that you're more worried about his mental state than he is. If he says he isn't depressed, believe him.
> 
> Honestly, it seems that you're looking for excuses. You honestly don't have the kind of power to destroy him that you think you do.
> 
> You say he took accounting classes that never led to anything. Every year H&R Block hires people to help during tax season. The people they hire are no more qualified than your husband. If he wanted to improve his situation, he could and would.


I guess I am looking to cover all the bases of his excuses and see what everyone else things of them. This is all stuff I need to hear from parties outside of the situation. Part of the problem is that I truly find him to be a good, caring man. He just can't get his act together and I am realizing that I can't live with it, and so I feel like a selfish, materialistic woman.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

vampfan75 said:


> I guess I am looking to cover all the bases of his excuses and see what everyone else things of them. This is all stuff I need to hear from parties outside of the situation. Part of the problem is that I truly find him to be a good, caring man. He just can't get his act together and I am realizing that I can't live with it, and so I feel like a selfish, materialistic woman.


Codependency is when you put the issues/well-being of anther person ahead of your own. It's a natural reaction to a bad situation. You are trying to fix a problem in your life and the only way to fix it is to fix him. Start focusing in on what you need. In a marriage both spouses should be getting their needs met. This is not happening in your marriage. You are meeting his needs. He's happy. He is not even concerned about your needs.

You would benefit from reading the book Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Vamp-

It doesn't matter what anyone on TAM thinks of your husband's reasons/excuses/etc. You are the one who decides whether this salvageable or not. 

You are at a crossroads....with a big choice to make.

My suggestion is to make sure you get all your ducks in a row legally...understanding all legal ramifications of divorce in your circumstance (it may be a financial hit). But you'll know the consequences of that decision.

I know for me, divorce was a fiscal hit for me (I made more than my ex- which had a lot to do with his choice not to make much efforts as well). But I went into the decision, feeling that it was the best decision for me and my kids. 

The best decision we need to make for ourselves, often isn't the easiest.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Well, look on the bright side: in 11 years he can quit altogether & collect Social Security. Of course, it won't be much because he's making diddly squat now and will for the next 11 years unless he DOES something. 

If that doesn't scare the crap out of you & him, I got nothin' left.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Codependency is when you put the issues/well-being of anther person ahead of your own. It's a natural reaction to a bad situation. You are trying to fix a problem in your life and the only way to fix it is to fix him. Start focusing in on what you need. In a marriage both spouses should be getting their needs met. This is not happening in your marriage. You are meeting his needs. He's happy. He is not even concerned about your needs.
> 
> You would benefit from reading the book Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself


Elegirl, thank you for the reality check. I have always considered myself strong and independent, and so the idea that I have actually fallen victim to codependency is surprising to me, although as you explain it I guess that is what has happened. I will look into the book.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Well, look on the bright side: in 11 years he can quit altogether & collect Social Security. Of course, it won't be much because he's making diddly squat now and will for the next 11 years unless he DOES something.
> 
> If that doesn't scare the crap out of you & him, I got nothin' left.


It DOES scare the crap out of me. Which is why I am on the verge of this life changing decision. Thank you for putting it in perspective. Sometimes the most simple ideas are the ones that hit home the best.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

cons said:


> Vamp-
> 
> It doesn't matter what anyone on TAM thinks of your husband's reasons/excuses/etc. You are the one who decides whether this salvageable or not.
> 
> ...


I think I have already decided that this life is not the one I want for the rest of my life. And I know it will not be an easy one, especially financially. I am in accounting myself, so I know how to crunch numbers. I am very afraid of the struggle that lies ahead of me if I go through with it, and that is holding me back. I keep hoping that a job opportunity will present itself to my husband (I know, not likely) so that the blow will be lessened. Because even if he does get it together, I believe our marriage is beyond repair. Even as I typed that, I think it was the first time I truly felt it to be true. It saddens me to make a decision that will be good for me, and devestating to someone I used to love and still care about.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Perhaps I'm assuming you and he have already discussed that his inability to take action in providing more financially to the union has this dire consequence...therefore he can't say he was blind-sided or devastated by you. But rather any devastation is a result of his own doing (or lack thereof).


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

cons said:


> Perhaps I'm assuming you and he have already discussed that his inability to take action in providing more financially to the union has this dire consequence...therefore he can't say he was blind-sided or devastated by you. But rather any devastation is a result of his own doing (or lack thereof).


Yes, we have had discussions about this for the last 2 years at least. I started off trying to be supportive but firm, and when that didn't get me anywhere, I tried shaming. When that didn't work, I tried reasoning with him and trying to understand the problem and be part of the solution. Then I just got angry and mean about it, telling him I would in fact divorce him if it didn't change. The final straw for me was about a month ago when I told him he was going to do marriage counseling or we were done. He agreed, but I fear that he now believes that the counseling has bought even MORE time, since he has paid lip service to the counselor as far as change needing to happen, but I have yet to see any change when we are out of the office. I do not wish to pay for more sessions if that is going to be the result. We are only one joint session in, but I am already so resentful at his continued apathy that I fear I am not longer open to the counseling. Am I being impatient do you think?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

vampfan75 said:


> Thank you. These are all things I have been thinking about and weighing over the last few months. Since 2012, FL has pretty much been pushing all divorcing couples to do 50/50 shared custody, unless it is not in the child's best interest to do so, and proving that has become difficult (according to the attorney I consulted). I do have a support system in place to help me with childcare, but my goal would be for my DH to be default childcare provider when I am unable to, and when he is available. The idea of filing and not actually going through with it has crossed my mind, but even just the initial paperwork is $400, and I don't want to do that just for a scare tactic. I guess I'm still conflicted.[/Q
> 
> If you still conflicted, and hoping marriage may improve, then tell him all that, your plans, that you have contacted lawyers, but you are still willing to work on it, if he gets his crap together. If that doesn't wake him up, then you are done.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> vampfan75 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you. These are all things I have been thinking about and weighing over the last few months. Since 2012, FL has pretty much been pushing all divorcing couples to do 50/50 shared custody, unless it is not in the child's best interest to do so, and proving that has become difficult (according to the attorney I consulted). I do have a support system in place to help me with childcare, but my goal would be for my DH to be default childcare provider when I am unable to, and when he is available. The idea of filing and not actually going through with it has crossed my mind, but even just the initial paperwork is $400, and I don't want to do that just for a scare tactic. I guess I'm still conflicted.[/Q
> ...


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## Angelou (Oct 21, 2014)

Is the income the only issue? Are you still in love with him?


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

Angelou said:


> Is the income the only issue? Are you still in love with him?


No, income is not the only issue, just the one that has caused the greatest amount of dissatisfaction with the marriage thus far. I don't know if I still love him. I know I don't feel like I'm "in love" with him, but I have been told by many and read on TAM and other resources that this feeling ebbs and flows and that I shouldn't let that be the only factor I consider. I do know that I have no desire to be with him physically right now. He has tried, and I have just not responded. And I don't know how to deal with that either. I feel like I shouldn't pretend to be interested when I'm not, but I also feel like it's not fair of me to withhold sex either. I'm very confused about how to deal with this issue. Is it valid for me to not have sex with him if I don't want to? I obviously don't mean forever, but at least until we make a decision which way things are going?


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Unfortunately you can make someone leave their home they have with you in a marriage. I have the same problem, a spouse that refuses to do her part in the marriage and that I would like not to be married to anymore, but can't afford a divorce.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

vampfan75 said:


> The issue there is that the house is mine. Bought before we even met. I have no intention of leaving the only home my son has ever known. Not to mention the fact that I have a very low mortgage payment and any movement at this point would be a move in the wrong financial direction. Makes no sense for me to leave.


Unless you have a prenup it isn't just yours anymore. Not to say that you may not get it but it's not a sure thing for sure.

Chances are you'll get 50-50 custody and yes times will come with you wont have the kiddo. That's what divorce is


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

It's good that you consulted a lawyer. Move through process slowly.

Only suggestion I have is if you can remin civil and work through things together not only will you have money but also heartache with the courts and the kiddo. If not it's pretty much war

Good luck


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

vampfan75 said:


> No, income is not the only issue, just the one that has caused the greatest amount of dissatisfaction with the marriage thus far. I don't know if I still love him. I know I don't feel like I'm "in love" with him, but I have been told by many and read on TAM and other resources that this feeling ebbs and flows and that I shouldn't let that be the only factor I consider. I do know that I have no desire to be with him physically right now. He has tried, and I have just not responded. And I don't know how to deal with that either. I feel like I shouldn't pretend to be interested when I'm not, but I also feel like it's not fair of me to withhold sex either. I'm very confused about how to deal with this issue. Is it valid for me to not have sex with him if I don't want to? I obviously don't mean forever, but at least until we make a decision which way things are going?


I think it's obvious you have lost respect and admiration for your H. And his lack of effort doesn't help either.

I don't agree with separation but that might be the shock he needs to get his shyte together, and when and if he does, him looking after himself and his son and finding a better job opportunity plus the distance can make him more atractive in your eyes. The downside is that a separation can make the Little emotional connection that's left almost gone.

You are in a tough spot i really don't know what to suggest, because it seems your H is a nice guy and all but you have lost your feelings for him or they might be hidden somewhere.

The lost of atraction, respect and admiration doesn't happen overnight and getting that back is very hard but i believe it can be done, it will just take time. Will you be willing to wait for that to happen?, if you really believe that he can pull it off, and i n do believe he can. Do it. set yourself a time limit, if and then after him knowing that you have one foot out the door he doesn't get his shyte together, then you'll have no other choice but to walk away. Hope this doesn't happen, but you have to be willing to risk it all for your family.


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## vampfan75 (Jul 11, 2014)

Regretf said:


> I think it's obvious you have lost respect and admiration for your H. And his lack of effort doesn't help either.
> 
> I don't agree with separation but that might be the shock he needs to get his shyte together, and when and if he does, him looking after himself and his son and finding a better job opportunity plus the distance can make him more atractive in your eyes. The downside is that a separation can make the Little emotional connection that's left almost gone.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I go back and forth. Do I give him a time limit(what would be appropriate - 6 months? A year? Less? I have no idea) and stay together in the house, or do I ask him to leave and make him show me he can change before I entertain thoughts of really re-commiting to the marriage? I am really torn because past experience has caused me to believe that anything short of actually making him leave is not going to result in any real change. But the fact that separating would cause such an upheaval for my young child makes me not want to do this if there is another way. My plan at the moment is to lay it all out on the table in our MC session tomorrow night and see how he responds. Hopefully being in an environment where he cannot ignore the questions will bring about a solid answer from him and help me decide.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Vamp-

I think once you tell him, categorically, what you need (family commitment which includes financial support to the household) that you will need to choose to separate/divorce the clock begins. This has to be what you are comfortable. YOU choose how long you are willing to be ALL IN...supporting his emotional needs (regardless if you get it in return)... If, say after 6 weeks none of your actions of love and care have been returned, then you will have more confidence in making a tough decision. 

Your husband needs to know that ACTIONS NOT WORDS is what is going to turn this big ship around. He cannot continue to placate any longer.

I am so sorry you have to exercise this level of tough love. But I assure you, that you will have more strength because you have put your all into this relationship. 

Best Wishes!


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

cons said:


> Vamp-
> 
> I think once you tell him, categorically, what you need (family commitment which includes financial support to the household) that you will need to choose to separate/divorce the clock begins. This has to be what you are comfortable. YOU choose how long you are willing to be ALL IN...supporting his emotional needs (regardless if you get it in return)... If, say after 6 weeks none of your actions of love and care have been returned, then you will have more confidence in making a tough decision.
> 
> ...


Agree 100%


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Just know that the time frame is set by you (you can voice this to your husband or you can just internally know what how much is needed to expect some actions to have taken place). Whatever you decide is right for you.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

You cannot kick him or force him to leave the marital home, especially if there is no divorce being filed. If he was smart, he would stay if you asked him to leave. And even if you were able to bring something like this to a judge with no pending divorce, the judge isn't going to put someone's father, with barely any income, on the streets unless you can prove that he is abusive, etc. 

Do the right thing. Save up money and get a divorce. Move on with your life and find a man who has the strive to make your life more comfortable. You have been going through this issue for 2 years now and now you move to threatening him (basically scaring him into becoming something he is not?) Just save the money and file already. That is my personal opinion.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Anything new?


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## AriYarjan (Mar 21, 2015)

You have more than one thread going. I asked some questions on your other one. Just curious, did you fall out of love with your husband when he didn't take the job offer ?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

vampfan75 said:


> Wow, I know you probably didn't intend it, but your suggestion that I leave the house instead really got me thinking about how harsh my plan of action sounds. I can't even fathom being the one who doesn't get to see my son every day. He is everything to me. I don't WANT to take my son away from his father, but I don't know what else to do. We are already in counseling, but it doesn't seem to be working. He hasn't taken anything to heart it appears, and acts like our counseling sessions are the only time I expect him to communicate with me. Nothing has changed at home. I feel like this drastic measure is the only thing that will get through to him. I don't know what to do.


Ask the MC - in front of him - what consequences you can give your husband when he doesn't step up. And then FOLLOW THROUGH on those consequences. Inform him front of the MC that you're giving him six months to change his mind set and that if he doesn't make a difference in six months, you WILL be filing for at least legal separation. Do this in front of MC.


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