# The Problem with Infidelity...



## DaytoDay (Jun 23, 2013)

I'm not making light of infidelity and I haven't been unfaithful and don't have any plans to do so. I'm just trying to understand. 

There was a time when I thought that my H being unfaithful to me (sexually) was the worst thing I could ever imagine him doing. But now, after all that he has done to me over the years, I don't think I'd even skip a beat if I found out he was having an affair, too. I don't believe it would hurt me more than the other things he has done, nor would I be surprised. That just seems so wrong to me now, especially in light of the way I used to think about infidelity.

So now, I can' t even pinpoint exactly what it is about infidelity that makes it such a dealbreaker for so many. I can totally relate to it destroying your trust in the other person, but doesn't lying have the same effect? I understand the problem with the lack of loyalty, but don't many people have issues with their spouses siding with their mother or father or siblings or even kids or anyone rather than them? I understand the risk of STD's or pregnancy, but if that were it, wouldn't that clear the path to reconciliation once they were proven negative? It isn't the feelings of love the WS holds for the other person because many times it's just a one-night stand, yet still potentially lethal to the M. I can't see it being a purity thing, because I think most people nowadays are not virgins when they marry anyway.

What is "the thing" that makes infidelity so damaging? And if the answer is trust, why is it more damaging than lying (or is it)?


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## DaytoDay (Jun 23, 2013)

I read this on another thread. I love what it says, but again, why is infidelity different than all the other relationship destroyers?



> Trust is a big issue as the deception and betrayal were massive and sustained. In the face of very direct questions over a period of months and, looking back now, pathetic pleas for just a modicum of truth and respect for what I was going through. Which was dumbstruck disbelief and then despair at my inability to recognize my wife. Trust and openness I think we can get back. And to an extent I think we have. What I cannot get back is the way I saw the world, marriage, and my wife before. Maybe that's not all bad. We live, we learn, we grow.
> 
> I think about these things a lot. This morning driving my girls to school. Not all the time, but frequently. Several times a day, but not all day or even much or most of any day. I know that this could happen again and I am not sure where to put the odds. Different times I place them on different points on the scale, but that doesn't bother me so much. Much of what knocked me for a loop was that something happened that I never imagined possible. That was huge. Everything seemed to become completely unreal. I couldn't find which way was up. rLooking back, I was pretty naive. Maybe a little less so now. There is something that is real that I never imagined could be. Almost 2 years gone by, I think I am pretty well able to acknowledge that and live with it. Wasn't an easy transition, but here I am and maybe I have grown some in the process. So I don't think I'll get knocked off my horse again, maybe just alter my course, ride in a different direction. But who knows? Anyway, I look at it differently now. Trust matters and in my reeling disbelief I was focused on that for a long time, but now it doesn't seem to be the central issue. People will do what they will do.
> 
> ...


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

Oh I don't know, I never really thought about it much......

Until it happened to me. So what's the "thing"????? Really??

I'll tell you what, have your H take a baseball bat and hit you as hard as he can right in the freaking gut. And then it's all down hill from there. I guess it's a location thing, you just have to be there.


Btw, do you go to funerals and ask people what the big deal about death is? I mean we all die right?


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## DaytoDay (Jun 23, 2013)

Another great post from Make It Stop:


> Aside from the obviously shattered trust with my WH, one of the hardest things I'm also struggling with is trusting myself. I don't mean trusting myself not to go have revenge sex or something (though I strongly considered it in the weeks after Dday), but trusting myself - my judgment - to know what is real.
> 
> I was duped for so long and even when I had my suspicions, I rationalized them away because I truly, whole-heartedly, believed, TRUSTED, my husband would never do anything like this. I was stone cold wrong. Everything I thought was real was absolutely wrong. Turns out, I didn't really even know the man I was married to.
> 
> ...


The problem is, Harry, he has already done that to me, so many times. Just not in *this* way (though an EA, yes.) But even in that case when I found out, I can't say it was even all that painful, because he had already "primed the bat" numerous times before.

And I didn't say it wasn't a big deal. It's the "infidelity" forum, it seemed the appropriate place to ask.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

DaytoDay said:


> Another great post from Make It Stop:
> 
> 
> The problem is, Harry, he has already done that to me, so many times. Just not in *this* way (though an EA, yes.) But even in that case when I found out, I can't say it was even all that painful, because he had already "primed the bat" numerous times before.
> ...


My point is it.s really hard to explain. Most people who haven't experienced it don't really understand it. The evidence of this is the fact that spouses cheat on their mates and don't realize the damage they are doing. One of the most common reactions of the wayward spouse is that didn't realize that it would hurt their mate so much. That's what my WW wife told me when I asked her how the f¥€k could you do this to me. She told me she had no idea it would hurt me that much, she said she wouldn't have done it if she had realized just how bad it hyet me. You may be having a hard time understanding this because it sounds like you've been abused to the point of apathy, so maybe you just don't care anymore. But those of us who never expected anything like this from our spouses it's like all the bad things that's happened to you in your marraige happening to us all at once. It's a "little" overwhelming.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

DaytoDay said:


> ..... But now, after all that he has done to me over the years, I don't think I'd even skip a beat if I found out he was having an affair, too. I don't believe it would hurt me more than the other things he has done, nor would I be surprised. That just seems so wrong to me now, especially in light of the way I used to think about infidelity.
> 
> I can totally relate to it destroying your trust in the other person, but doesn't lying have the same effect?
> 
> What is "the thing" that makes infidelity so damaging? And if the answer is trust, why is it more damaging than lying (or is it)?


I've scanned through your other threads. With respect I think you have a few issues. I think your understanding of what 'emotional' and 'trust' is needs to be looked at.

You actually don't have any idea about what trust is ? Come on

Is it lying? OF course it is, deceit dishonesty are treachery and betrayal and all part of, if broken, a breach of trust. Love does not hold you together that's up and down but trust is a 'glue' that holds everything together and keeps the reins on love imo and the moment it's breached - finito. No trust means you no longer have belief that the person you thought would ever destroy you (who already has) will then not do it again.

The following comments seem to ba at odds with you within you 



DaytoDay said:


> As for emotional investment, I wonder if you could expand on that? I see love as being an _action_, not just a feeling. *And emotional investment manifests itself in a love language of one sort or another. His complete and utter lack of effort in love languages is pretty indicative of a lack of emotional investment*, to my way of thinking.


What exactly do you mean by that ? Be specific in laymans word if you will?


Here your H is a bastard


DaytoDay said:


> He has thrown me under the bus for friends, siblings and children. He has lied and cheated. Virtually every hobby/interest he partakes is exclusive of me. He hides things from me because he knows I'll disapprove. He has reamed every aspect of my character to such a degree that I can't even imagine why he would want to be around me, period. What investment, emotional or otherwise, would drive a man to want to remain M'd, in spite of his apparent misery?


Yet here there's little wrong with him :scratchhead:



DaytoDay said:


> Thanks, IrishGirlVA. I wasn't trying to be evasive, only to keep the post short. *Yes, he has good qualities: he's gainfully employed, is a good father, will make effort to clean around the house, can handle a little home maintenance, doesn't gamble, drink excessively, or punch, goes to church, likes to be social, tries to be funny, is always up for sex, etc.*
> 
> I'm going to order a book on the tactics of manipulative people. I think his claim for emotional pain might just be a tactic to keep me in the M. Otherwise, I just don't understand it.


I don't think you understand it. Neither do I :scratchhead:
I think you're a littel mixed up is what you want what you think you want and what to do about it.

Btw I'm not having a go at you here I'm genuinely confused by you
Maybe you could offer up some clearer views of what you are asking


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

DaytoDay said:


> I'm not making light of infidelity and I haven't been unfaithful and don't have any plans to do so. I'm just trying to understand.
> 
> There was a time when I thought that my H being unfaithful to me (sexually) was the worst thing I could ever imagine him doing. But now, after all that he has done to me over the years, I don't think I'd even skip a beat if I found out he was having an affair, too. I don't believe it would hurt me more than the other things he has done, nor would I be surprised. That just seems so wrong to me now, especially in light of the way I used to think about infidelity.
> 
> ...


It's not just one 'thing', it's a whole list.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

DaytoDay said:


> I'm not making light of infidelity and I haven't been unfaithful and don't have any plans to do so. I'm just trying to understand.
> 
> There was a time when I thought that my H being unfaithful to me (sexually) was the worst thing I could ever imagine him doing. But now, after all that he has done to me over the years, I don't think I'd even skip a beat if I found out he was having an affair, too. I don't believe it would hurt me more than the other things he has done, nor would I be surprised. That just seems so wrong to me now, especially in light of the way I used to think about infidelity.
> 
> ...


There are more than 7 billion people on the planet. In a typical monogamous marriage each spouse thinks that out of 7 billion he/she chose ME. This is what makes me/us special. Infidelity shatters the feeling that you are special to your spouse. Among all the behaviors that can be thought of as lying or trust-killing, infidelity alone involves bringing a living breathing third party into the relationship, the ultimate betrayal.

IMO, that's the thing about infidelity.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Philat said:


> There are more than 7 billion people on the planet. In a typical monogamous marriage each spouse thinks that out of 7 billion he/she chose ME. This is what makes me/us special. Infidelity shatters the feeling that you are special to your spouse. Among all the behaviors that can be thought of as lying or trust-killing, infidelity alone involves bringing a living breathing third party into the relationship, the ultimate betrayal.
> 
> IMO, that's the thing about infidelity.


Yep and the tools to achieve that infidelity are? - lying deceiving treachery and betrayal 

and after the event ....... they open up and admit their destructions lie at your feet, remorseful and full of guilt ? 

Er NO actually, the hell they do - shed loads of yet more lying deceiving and betrayal

God infidelity is utter sh!t isn't it


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## DaytoDay (Jun 23, 2013)

> But those of us who never expected anything like this from our spouses it's like all the bad things that's happened to you in your marraige happening to us all at once.


This. This is what I concluded before I came back and checked this thread. 

I *feel* exactly like the two posts I quoted, so I was thinking I'm crazy because I could no longer imagine the magnitude of pain I might feel if H had a PA. I would relate it to the injuries you acquire from getting hit by a car vs. acquiring them in individual incidents. If you incur a concussion, broken leg, fractured ribs, bruised face, damaged spleen, etc. from a car, versus a concussion from slipping on the ice, a broken leg from falling down the stairs, fractured ribs from falling off a ladder, a bruised face from walking into something, a damaged spleen from ... er, however you can damage your spleen, etc., the problem is that the car accident is ALL AT ONCE, and the combination can literally kill you. And that, Harry, I suspect would the the equivalent to the "overwhelming" aspect you mentioned.

Am I close? There was a time when I really did understand this.

But in the end, after you "heal," you still have all the identical scars in both cases. The difference is the mental trauma. So you either go through the rest of your life fearful of walking in front of a car, or afraid of ice/stairs/ladders/walls/spleen-things/etc.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

It’s having your belief/faith system shattered. You believed in them; It’s not just trust, but it’s them a whole, like an extension of yourself. That extension is based on your belief in your marriage. The “us”, not the “him and I” like you just happen to occupy the same space. That whole thing is shattered; Who is this person?

And I do believe those things can be broken in other ways. But it isn’t the same sort of hurt like tearing off a leg or losing an eye. Both suck, but in different ways in how they affect you. 

If I were a guessing man, I’d say those other abuses have triggered a coping skill of distancing. So, you’re already at the ‘I don’t care about you’ phase. He’ll do what he’ll do and all you can do is isolate yourself from him. Doesn’t sound like a marriage to me at all. That’s when I started understanding the ILYBNILWY speak. My wife became a family member I loved, but distant enough that I saw ‘her life’ and ‘my life’ where there were only family bound intersections where we had to deal with each other. It’s also when I recognized I could have that kind of relationship with an ex-wife.....


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## DaytoDay (Jun 23, 2013)

> There are more than 7 billion people on the planet. In a typical monogamous marriage each spouse thinks that out of 7 billion he/she chose ME. This is what makes me/us special. Infidelity shatters the feeling that you are special to your spouse. Among all the behaviors that can be thought of as lying or trust-killing, infidelity alone involves bringing a living breathing third party into the relationship, the ultimate betrayal.
> 
> IMO, that's the thing about infidelity.


Philat, your post is the sort of thought that throws me. The AP isn't creating a three-some (like polygamy), but it's your spouse putting someone else above you, proving that you in fact are not special, right?

I understand you feeling that way. I feel like my H did that to me when he lied to me to protect his sister for something she was doing, when she was doing something destructive to our M. He betrayed me for someone else, valued someone else over me, showed me I wasn't special to him, showed me the M wasn't important to him, even if sex wasn't involved. 

I'm not retracting my earlier post, just pointing out that this is where my thinking goes awry. Oh, and the entire concept of polygamy, but I don't even want to start that discussion.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

DaytoDay said:


> This. This is what I concluded before I came back and checked this thread.
> 
> I *feel* exactly like the two posts I quoted, so I was thinking I'm crazy because I could no longer imagine the magnitude of pain I might feel if H had a PA. I would relate it to the injuries you acquire from getting hit by a car vs. acquiring them in individual incidents. If you incur a concussion, broken leg, fractured ribs, bruised face, damaged spleen, etc. from a car, versus a concussion from slipping on the ice, a broken leg from falling down the stairs, fractured ribs from falling off a ladder, a bruised face from walking into something, a damaged spleen from ... er, however you can damage your spleen, etc., the problem is that the car accident is ALL AT ONCE, and the combination can literally kill you. And that, Harry, I suspect would the the equivalent to the "overwhelming" aspect you mentioned.
> 
> ...



I think you really just don't understand. I get that it is hard to understand but you say you thought your husband was doing it to you and now you look back at it and think. That was not really that big of a deal compared to the other things. 

Have you really been in love with your husband? I mean seriously In love? I am not in your marriage and I do not know you but I can tell you if you experienced what this really does to a person you would not even be on this site saying this stuff. 

Did your husband die? do you morn for the loss of him? Do you often think you really see him walking around the house you have built with a new man you really don't know? These are just some of the emotions and feelings someone goes through when facing this kind of a traumatic event. 

Its hard to really understand until you have been there but let me tell you this from my heart. I am happy to hear you have never been there. I would not wish it upon anyone. 

If you simply just can't understand I would chalk it up to a mystery and move on to the next chapter in your life. 

Be happy you have never experienced this. Once you do nothing is ever the same again. (Its because a good part of you Died that day" 

Clay


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## DaytoDay (Jun 23, 2013)

Racer said:


> It’s having your belief/faith system shattered. You believed in them; It’s not just trust, but it’s them a whole, like an extension of yourself. That extension is based on your belief in your marriage. The “us”, not the “him and I” like you just happen to occupy the same space. That whole thing is shattered; Who is this person?
> 
> And I do believe those things can be broken in other ways. But it isn’t the same sort of hurt like tearing off a leg or losing an eye. Both suck, but in different ways in how they affect you.
> 
> If I were a guessing man, I’d say those other abuses have triggered a coping skill of distancing. So, you’re already at the ‘I don’t care about you’ phase. He’ll do what he’ll do and all you can do is isolate yourself from him. Doesn’t sound like a marriage to me at all. That’s when I started understanding the ILYBNILWY speak. My wife became a family member I loved, but distant enough that I saw ‘her life’ and ‘my life’ where there were only family bound intersections where we had to deal with each other. It’s also when I recognized I could have that kind of relationship with an ex-wife.....


:iagree: 

Yes, I think you pegged it. Whereas an affair rips the band-aid off all at once, my H has accomplished the same thing one hair at a time. Perhaps I'm not so crazy afterall.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

DaytoDay said:


> As for emotional investment, I wonder if you could expand on that? I see love as being an _action_, not just a feeling. *And emotional investment manifests itself in a love language of one sort or another. His complete and utter lack of effort in love languages is pretty indicative of a lack of emotional investment*, to my way of thinking.


DtoD

Sorry to 'bag' you but what are you meaning when you said this?

what 'love languages' what is this exactly ?

No intimacy? no affection? no sweet talk/ - what?

Can you explain?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

DaytoDay said:


> I'm not making light of infidelity and I haven't been unfaithful and don't have any plans to do so. I'm just trying to understand.
> 
> There was a time when I thought that my H being unfaithful to me (sexually) was the worst thing I could ever imagine him doing. But now, after all that he has done to me over the years, *I don't think I'd even skip a beat* if I found out he was having an affair, too. *I don't believe it would hurt me* more than the other things he has done, nor would I be surprised.


Until you have lived it, you could *never* possibly understand.


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## DaytoDay (Jun 23, 2013)

Headspin said:


> DtoD
> 
> Sorry to 'bag' you but what are you meaning when you said this?
> 
> ...


I was talking about the same love languages everyone else talks about. We even did the Love Languages book by Harley the first year we were M'd. Knowledge isn't the problem, application is. 

In any case, that was another thread at another time and I think I've moved beyond reconciling my M. I think Racer had it right on, I think I'm just too distanced right now to be comprehensive. Like trying to grasp the concept of starvation right after a Thanksgiving meal. Perhaps someday I'll be in a relationship again where the thought of my H stepping out would be devastating. It's just not the case in this one anymore.

I do appreciate everyone chiming in. I feel real empathy for your obvious pain. Ironically, *I* still hold that it's a very bad thing to do, and have always known that even without experiencing it. Just never imagined I would be where I'm at and contemplating the difference, is all.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

From the way you describe it, you already have an awful marriage and infidelity wouldnt make much difference...so how can you possibly understand it?? 

Maybe its time to end the awful marriage for th myriad of other reasons your post alluded to and find someone more suited to you...then you might understand it

infidelity is betrayal/dishonesty/deception all rolled into one...its a total disregard and lack of respect for the cheated on and the family..the spouse who cheats destroys everything about them the cheated on found attractive and married them for in the first place...the person the cheated on married is GONE, replaced by a lying decieving cheater...

and if thats what you are already married to, without infidelity, then its time to get out of that mess...


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## DaytoDay (Jun 23, 2013)

:iagree:

If that's not what I said, that's what I was trying to say.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

DaytoDay said:


> Philat, your post is the sort of thought that throws me. The AP isn't creating a three-some (like polygamy), but it's your spouse putting someone else above you, proving that you in fact are not special, right?
> 
> I understand you feeling that way. *I feel like my H did that to me when he lied to me to protect his sister for something she was doing, when she was doing something destructive to our M. He betrayed me for someone else, valued someone else over me, showed me I wasn't special to him, showed me the M wasn't important to him, even if sex wasn't involved.*
> 
> I'm not retracting my earlier post, just pointing out that this is where my thinking goes awry. Oh, and the entire concept of polygamy, but I don't even want to start that discussion.


DaytoDay, I gotta tell you that I'm as thrown by your post as you were by mine. The example you give of your H's betrayal, while damaging, is nowhere near the betrayal of infidelity.

I guess jellybeans is right--unless you've been there you don't really get it.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Another thread that proves my belief that it's better not to know


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Because I looked her in the eyes, and promised to love and hold, to cherish and support her, and only her. 
And she looked me in the eyes, and promised the exact same thing. 

And that vow was broken. 


As for why it kills? Physically and mentally? 

Because I didn't get it. I earned a great salary and very comfortable living. I went to the gym, and I'll tell you I did steroids (safely and responsibly with little to no side-effects until DDay) so my body was impressive. I was tall, rippling with muscle, making money, and yet, I couldn't keep her eyes from wandering. Her cheating told me, I wasn't man enough. 

And I was open with her. I liked the emotional intimacy we shared as a couple. But it still wasn't enough. 

She gave me the love my parents wouldn't or couldn't. And she ultimately betrayed that love. 

That's why it hurt so much.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

DaytoDay said:


> I was talking about the same love languages everyone else talks about. We even did the Love Languages book by Harley the first year we were M'd. Knowledge isn't the problem, application is.
> 
> In any case, that was another thread at another time and I think I've moved beyond reconciling my M. I think Racer had it right on, I think I'm just too distanced right now to be comprehensive. Like trying to grasp the concept of starvation right after a Thanksgiving meal. Perhaps someday I'll be in a relationship again where the thought of my H stepping out would be devastating. It's just not the case in this one anymore.
> 
> I do appreciate everyone chiming in. I feel real empathy for your obvious pain. Ironically, *I* still hold that it's a very bad thing to do, and have always known that even without experiencing it. Just never imagined I would be where I'm at and contemplating the difference, is all.


you're still being vague - what love languages 

in respect of your own marriage what do you mean?


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

I'm sorry you live such a sh!!ty life w someone. 

~sammy


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## looking for clarity (Aug 12, 2013)

Just putting this out there. I could have written this post a few years ago. The bad treatment I received was because he was already cheating on me. He needed to justify his behavior and so he blamed me for his problems. How do you know he's not cheating?

I also was confused. Why does he stay with me if I do such terrible things and make him so angry. When I found out he was cheating, it was the cherry on a pile of crap. I was shocked as I thought his staying with such with me when there was so much wrong with me proved just how devoted he is to me. He is a master gas lighter.

I also am confused. Some sick part of me says - well it's just messing around with other people. He did that before he met me. He's smart - he use protection. Then my life won't have to change. The other part of me says I need to get the hell out of this marriage. I'm in a civil war with myself.

I was pretty happy with my life . His actions have caused me to lose the life I had and will probably force my son to grow up in a broken family. I can't sleep at night. I'm a stress eater and I've gained ten pounds in 2 months !!!! My stomach is in a knot. I'm tense a
All the time. Infidelity did that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

"The" problem with infidelity is... it ruins *EVERYTHING*.

Let me repeat, EVERYTHING! 

Everything you thought you once knew, worked hard for, cried for, built, shared, 
experienced, bought, built, believed, stood for, cherished.... the list goes on.... your life will NEVER be the same.

You will think, act and feel different forever.

It's a scar that will be with you until you die. Period.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

For me the "thing" was the loss of the ability to trust in someone I loved unconditionally, someone whom I felt safe with, someone who I believed always had my back, someone who I would allow to hold my heart. I no longer have that. That's the thing. It sounds like you don't have any of that in your marriage. I guess you don't have that to lose. I'm sorry you've never experienced that kind of love. I don't believe that I will experience it ever again.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

I think those that haven't been through it can never understand just how crushing it really is until it happens. Suspecting your partner of cheating is a horrible feeling. However KNOWING your partner has cheated is worse. At least while you suspect, you still have hope... even if that hope is a delusion.

My D-Day was August 2012. Not ONE single day has passed in that time that I haven't thought about it and replayed it, the events leading up to it, the events during and after it in my mind. Not ONE. I don't want it, I didn't ask for it.

The mental gymnastics I have to do in order to be with this man that I once loved as much as myself is astounding. I have to forget that he licked some other woman's pvssy, stuck his penis in her, kissed her, fingered her, told her she's beautiful, took her on dates, bought her presents while I was at home, rubbing the back of our hysterically sobbing eight year old son and tending to a new born baby by myself.

I have to forget that he told everyone - friends family, coworkers that I cheated on him first (never happened) and that I physically attacked him (never happened). 

I have to forget that he paraded her all over Facebook and his place of work. Meanwhile, never inviting me to one staff party and keeping me from commenting on his Facebook for years.

I have to forget about their pregnancy scare only five months after giving birth to our second child.

I have to forget about the text-messages where he badmouthed about me, saying I was full of drama.

I have to forget about him telling me that he didn't love me, that he hated me, that I was acting like a *****, I gained weight, I didn't exercise as much as he wanted me to, I wasn't as motivated as I should be, I wasn't "freaky enough in bed", I don't cook the food he likes, I was horrible, I was lazy, I was a bad mom.

Now I'm supposed to believe him when he says that I'm sexy, I'm beautiful, he loves me, we're good together, I turn him on, he's sorry, he'll never cheat again?


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

It is something that no one can describe....frankly and I would not have understood it if I did not go through it.
I remember seeing friends whose spouses fooled around on them and thinking intellectually "well get over it!"
I never thought I could get over it but thought people should just move on.
But as most mentioned here it changes everything.
Your marriage (mine was over).
Your children (who were confident - now are insecure)
Your faith in the world (you now mistrust others of the opposite sex).
Your spouse (who you thought was this loyal person into an evil vindictive person).
Many other things.....my ex turned my children against me because she felt guilty and knew what she was doing was wrong so to cover her tracks she spread lies about me.
I said to someone before the affair I never thought there was evil in the world or never believed in Satan...afterwards I felt I knew Satan personally....up close and personal.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

cantthinkstraight said:


> "The" problem with infidelity is... it ruins *EVERYTHING*.
> 
> Let me repeat, EVERYTHING!
> 
> ...


I agree... so far, for me it's trashed an entire lifetime of memories. It's made me doubt my entire past, my entire reason for being. I wonder if I'm the fool for being a faithful upstanding person and always putting my family in front of my own needs and desires. I find a person that makes me feel special, makes me feel like I'm not a creep or a freak, and then one day I find out that her and another man are laughing at me behind my back as they share intimacy. I'm back to being bullied, being a laughing stock.. Wondering if I just don't deserve to have a female treat me right.. if even my best friend and childhood sweatheart could cast me aside for another. 20 years of marriage down the crapper.. an entire lifetime of work and memories, thrown away.. It changes everything.

When my wife says "I ruined everything..." I don't say "no you didn't" or anything like that.. I just stay silent, what do you say to that? "yup, you sure did..."


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Here is my problem with it.

First, obviously, another man had his penis in my wife....and she probably enjoyed it. Sex is the most intimate thing a husband and wife do, and she went and did it with someone else. It ruins a specialness we had. Try living your life with your mind randomly projecting images of your wife/husband having sex with someone else. Its not fun.

Now on to other issues. Everything has been a lie. Memories up to this point have been shattered or tarnished. I look at our pictures from our Disney vacation and no longer see a happy family. I not look at those pictures and see an idiot who had no idea his "loving" wife was screwing another guy. Did I mention everything up to this point feels like a lie?

Next, the "innocence" and pureness of our marriage has been ripped away. Regardless of whether or not we R, its gone forever. Also, the woman I thought I knew is gone forever. Shes dead to me. This "new" woman just looks exactly like her. 

And finally....when I look at my wife now, I dont see safety. I dont see someone who would through hell and back for me. I dont see home. I see someone who brought me to my knees and tried to destroy me. To R with her she now has to be the person who helps me get back up and put me back together. My actual home doesnt feel like home anymore. The ground I stand on is no longer solid and I feel like it will give at any step.
I no longer plan for the future, instead taking life day by day because I cant see past today anymore.


I mean, the sex part alone will gut you and never heal.....everything else is just fuel to the fire.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

hawx20 said:


> Here is my problem with it.
> 
> First, obviously, another man had his penis in my wife....and she probably enjoyed it.


Correction: DID enjoy it.



hawx20 said:


> Sex is the most intimate thing a husband and wife do, and she went and did it with someone else. It ruins a specialness we had. Try living your life with your mind randomly projecting images of your wife/husband having sex with someone else. Its not fun.


I found it to be the most demeaning feeling I've ever felt in my life.



hawx20 said:


> Now on to other issues. Everything has been a lie. Memories up to this point have been shattered or tarnished. I look at our pictures from our Disney vacation and no longer see a happy family. I not look at those pictures and see an idiot who had no idea his "loving" wife was screwing another guy. Did I mention everything up to this point feels like a lie?


I do the same.



hawx20 said:


> Next, the "innocence" and pureness of our marriage has been ripped away. Regardless of whether or not we R, its gone forever. Also, the woman I thought I knew is gone forever. Shes dead to me. This "new" woman just looks exactly like her.
> 
> And finally....when I look at my wife now, I dont see safety. I dont see someone who would through hell and back for me. I dont see home. I see someone who brought me to my knees and tried to destroy me. To R with her she now has to be the person who helps me get back up and put me back together. My actual home doesnt feel like home anymore. The ground I stand on is no longer solid and I feel like it will give at any step.
> I no longer plan for the future, instead taking life day by day because I cant see past today anymore.
> ...


Indeed it is my friend, indeed it is.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

What is infidelity like? Imagine this analogy:

You and your husband are sitting a home one evening, watching TV. All of a sudden, a woman comes crashing through the front door and starts beating on you. Your husband just sits there and watches. The two of you fight for half an hour until you're both so beat up and injured that you can't move. 

Then, your husband picks up the other woman in his arms to carry her to the ER. On his way out, he steps over you and spits in your face while you lay there bleeding.

Something like that.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

DtD, you have checked out of your M a while ago. If you would go back to your pastor and tell him that you are denying your H sex, what would your pastor say?

you have suggested to your H that you would like to split up and that he would find someone else.

After reading all your threads and post I would like to ask you this question.

Are you cheating on your H or are you thinking about it?


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

badmemory said:


> What is infidelity like? Imagine this analogy:
> 
> You and your husband/wife are sitting at home one evening, watching TV. All of a sudden, a woman/man comes crashing through the front door and starts beating on you. Your husband/wife just sits there and watches. You cant move because a few minutes prior your husband/wife injected you with something that paralyzes you. This person beats you to a pulp, laughs at you, and then your husband/wife stands up, has sex in front of you, and they both walk away laughing.
> 
> ...


Awesome analogy. I did have to tweak it a little bit though for more effect.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

DaytoDay said:


> What is "the thing" that makes infidelity so damaging? And if the answer is trust, why is it more damaging than lying (or is it)?


Because we get to play mind movies in our heads over and over of our spouse f****g someone else. Someone tells a small lie to me, I can get over that depending on the severity of the lie.. A wife or gf of mine riding another man? Not so much.

There are a lot of things that are worse than infidelity. Murder, rape, physical abuse, etc, etc.

Something doesn't have to be worse than infidelity to make it a deal breaker. Trust is just part of it. Its the other baggage that comes with it. For me it was looking at my x-wife and seeing "cheating wh0re" written all over her forehead. That kind of made it a dealbreaker for me


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

hawx20 said:


> Awesome analogy. I did have to tweak it a little bit though for more effect.


Oh, yeah that's rough too.

I was trying to use an analogy that didn't include infidelity in the comparison. Not sure I succeeded, but I hope you get the picture OP.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Because we get to play mind movies in our heads over and over of our spouse f****g someone else. Someone tells a small lie to me, I can get over that depending on the severity of the lie.. A wife or gf of mine riding another man? Not so much.


What did it for me was I cant even watch porn anymore. Everytime I do I see Ron Jeremy doing my wife. Damn her!!!

Jk, i still have my weird sense of humor through all this....

But yeah, that twists my insides and even though its cold as hell where I live, it boils my blood....No matter what happens, no matter how much time passes, I doubt I will ever completely stop having these images in my head.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

Not to forget Narcissism...for sure...isnt there a wayward spouse here on TAM who actually has her picture as an avatar?? She is a very pretty blonde woman...

how many cheaters would openly admit this in a forum, and THEN put their glamour shot on their avatar??/

Narcissism at its finest imo...no shame...


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

missthelove2013 said:


> Not to forget Narcissism...for sure...isnt there a wayward spouse here on TAM who actually has her picture as an avatar?? She is a very pretty blonde woman...
> 
> how many cheaters would openly admit this in a forum, and THEN put their glamour shot on their avatar??/
> 
> Narcissism at its finest imo...no shame...


I know who you're talking about, but after reading her threads I choose to believe she's *OWNING* what she did. If so, nothing says that more than putting your picture as your avatar.

Maybe I'm naive.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

badmemory said:


> I know who you're talking about, but after reading her threads I choose to believe she's *OWNING* what she did. If so, nothing says that more than putting your picture as your avatar.
> 
> Maybe I'm naive.


sorry...It was a glamour-puss shot...looked very narcassistic to me...but I am not an expert...


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Sooo??? Do we just learn to live with everything that is ruined now? Is that our new reality? I just dont see how it ever can be ok again. Even with all the hard work the books tell us we must do. 

So incrediable easy for the ww. As long as we the bs keep our heads down, solider on, make the changes that the ww was unhappy with... Keep our mouths shut, and not rock the boat much for the ww, then they feel we're moving on, we are getting through this mess... 

Problem is, it's now apart of who we are... 

~sammy


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## DaytoDay (Jun 23, 2013)

I thought this thread had run its course. Seems to have been resurrected.

Thorburn, our pastor gave up on us long ago, literally. And I don't blame him. No, I haven't cheated on my H, nor do I plan to. Frankly, it's hard to imagine that I could ever trust another person or my own judgment again to get into another relationship.

Badmemory, I get the analogy. Unfortunately, your example of excluding sex in it is exactly what my confusion centers around. Are my H and I the only ones that weren't virgins when we got M'd?? I wouldn't think so. So the references to imagining your spouse doing it with someone else? Well my H was M'd and had 3 kids with his ex. I could easily imagine him with her. But I was with people before him, too, so he could do the same thing. Yes, when you M, you promise fidelity. But "forsaking all others" doesn't only mean sexual fidelity. It means leaving your family behind and cleaving to you spouse.

Besides, there's polygamy, swinging, threesomes, etc. that some M'd folks seem to deal with just fine. So I feel like it has to be the broken trust that's the real dealbreaker.

I think for me, it would be the instant that you realize that your S would choose to jump in front of someone else to save them from a bullet, instead of you. I just don't believe infidelity is the only means to get that message across.


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## looking for clarity (Aug 12, 2013)

Sammy3, this is what I'm struggling with too. Too just say, ok alms forgiven - let's live happily ever after and I'm happy for the changes you made - gag me. Currently, it never feels like things will be ok.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## struggling55 (Jan 16, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> It is something that no one can describe....frankly and I would not have understood it if I did not go through it.
> I remember seeing friends whose spouses fooled around on them and thinking intellectually "well get over it!"
> I never thought I could get over it but thought people should just move on.
> But as most mentioned here it changes everything.
> ...


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

DaytoDay said:


> I thought this thread had run its course. Seems to have been resurrected.
> 
> Thorburn, our pastor gave up on us long ago, literally. And I don't blame him. No, I haven't cheated on my H, nor do I plan to. Frankly, it's hard to imagine that I could ever trust another person or my own judgment again to get into another relationship.
> 
> ...


I believe in bigfoot... I saw a TV show on it. They put out muffins and food for the bigfoot, so it must exist. I've never actually seen one, but hey, I feel it's out there.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

sammy3 said:


> Sooo??? Do we just learn to live with everything that is ruined now? Is that our new reality? I just dont see how it ever can be ok again. Even with all the hard work the books tell us we must do.
> 
> So incrediable easy for the ww. As long as we the bs keep our heads down, solider on, make the changes that the ww was unhappy with... Keep our mouths shut, and not rock the boat much for the ww, then they feel we're moving on, we are getting through this mess...
> 
> ...


Its not fair...the ws cheats and the bs makes all the changes??
Just so unfair...I cant do it...if I am such a **** husband that my wife needs to cheat, and assuiming she has actually discussed this with me ad nauseum and I cant or wont change, then she needs to file...vice versa as well

I think most of the "problems" the ws have are excuses...things they fabricate or exaggerate to justify the affair...whether they do it during or after the affair, or before it when they see it coming...one day your spouse adores you, the next they are distant and cross with you, I see this in so many stories and its not like these "issues" become intolerable over night, its that they decide to pursue the affair over night...:smthumbup:


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

russell28 said:


> I believe in bigfoot... I saw a TV show on it. They put out muffins and food for the bigfoot, so it must exist. I've never actually seen one, but hey, I feel it's out there.


What will happen to mankind if bigfoot manages to mate with a chupacabra?? Were all doomed I tell you...doomed!!
ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Your wife tells you a lie, she says she's going to the gym, but she actually goes to see a movie by herself and gets some fast food. Your trust is broken.

Your wife tells you a lie, she says she's going to the gym but she's actually going to a hotel with a guy she's been secretly in love with for months and now they're going to have hot dirty sex, she'll put her mouth all over his body and hopefully you won't kiss her when she gets home.
Trust is broken.

In these two scenarios, trust is broken and is going to be a problem. In the second scenario, there are issues that are well beyond trust. Respect, honor, vows are broken, risk of disease, mind movies, self esteem destruction, boundaries are crossed in many ways and often children's lives are upturned. It's not just about trust, but about WHAT you are trusting them with and what they do with it. You aren't trusting them to watch your goldfish and they fall asleep and it dies. You are trusting them with your emotional well being and they destroy it, and then laugh behind your back with their lover as you crumble.

Not all trust is equal I guess would be my point after the rant...


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> Its not fair...the ws cheats and the bs makes all the changes??
> Just so unfair...I cant do it...if I am such a **** husband that my wife needs to cheat, and assuiming she has actually discussed this with me ad nauseum and I cant or wont change, then she needs to file...vice versa as well
> 
> I think most of the "problems" the ws have are excuses...things they fabricate or exaggerate to justify the affair...whether they do it during or after the affair, or before it when they see it coming...one day your spouse adores you, the next they are distant and cross with you, I see this in so many stories and its not like these "issues" become intolerable over night, its that they decide to pursue the affair over night...:smthumbup:


The WS has the aha moment when they realize that it's all about excuses and stupid rationalizations, and that the problems were caused by the affair, not the other way around. Not in every case, but in the case such as you describe. Good husband, good family, girl wants to get married, wants kids, you give her everything, she eventually gets 'bored', wants to find herself, life like she's a teenager again, abandon her family for her own selfish needs... Once they cross that road, they spend countless amounts of time and effort justifying to themselves and others (telling family how controlling and jealous you are). You are controlling and jealous because you can sense problems. Once they can admit that the affair was because they made bad life choices, and pursued it because they were selfish is the first step. They can take it off you, stop blaming the devil, and take some ownership so they can begin to heal and hopefully in the future make healthier choices in life. Sad they have to find out the grass isn't greener the hard way, usually destroying so many people in the process. Gas lighting.. blame shifting.. take a good long look at your problems, before you accept that they were actually real problems. They may have been fabricated, or caused by the WS actions and treatment of you. Nobody is perfect, but does the WS REALLY think your issues were worth destroying you for? Did they really make themselves hate you that much? Did what you do/did deserve that level of hate? Put the dishes in the dishwasher backwards?


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Im having few problems of who the person I am becoming because of his infidelity...some of my "new" habits, and lifestyle hasn't been the healthiest choices. 

I find even being on TAM weird too sometimes, a world full of stranger, like an underground community. I would never be here, if it weren't because of infidelity.

Because I am an empty nester, (living apart, starting mc, trying for R, 2.5 yrs out) I am out more, and at home more, which now brings in more drinking, more spending,more strangers, & a more relaxed attitude towards meeting people. 

I take my "broke" 23 yr. old out to dinner as often as I can, again, out and about, talking, and enjoying more open freer way of looking at life as often "his" friends join us, ((are all broke)) But, I enjoy his friends and the convo, as they are young, all just starting their lives, most finishing grad programs, etc.. It's all a fine time by all.

But, I also stay home, and can be in my home for days at a time and never go out, look into the refrige and think, "oh, dont eat that, or you'll have to go out to the store." Be home 24/7 alone, until finally the food is gone. 
I havent adjusted to this "new" me yet, or even how to navigate this new person. 

~sammy


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## Solitaire (Oct 26, 2012)

For those that don't understand why someone would ask about infidelity vs plain lying. When you have been married for 20 years and worked really hard for the last 12 to make it work, you get tired. You can keep going if you get a "bone". But when you try everything - big things, little things sexy things, talking, even the wrong things like yelling, and the only thing that gets through is that someone needs to leave. You die a little inside. Each day. When you no longer have interests in common. You start to become a shell of a person. Your husband, whom you were deeply in love with, essentially ignores you and your needs for years. You cease to exist. It is now no longer whether or not you love him. You probably do. I do. But it has changed. The pain from whatever the emotional scars - lying, ignoring, put downs, etc. has damaged you deep inside. And at this point, it is hard to understand how infidelity could hurt more. Pain is pain - and I do understand your question. I don't think any of us can judge. Emotional withdrawal & choosing someone or something else over you hurts like he**. One huge figurative punch vs several smaller well placed ones - they all do damage.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

I don't think about the lying. It goes hand in hand with cheating. 

My partner cheating is the worse thing that could have ever happened to me, with the exception of something happening to my kids. 

I would rather be gang raped by 20 different men or beat to a bloody pulp on a daily basis than have the man that was supposed to love me betray me the way he did. Strangers can hurt me. They after all didn't make promises to me. They weren't supposed to protect my heart. My guy was supposed to do all that, and he didn't. 

Call me dramatic, but that's just how bad cheating really is.


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