# How much is fair to pay for expenses?



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I would not be with a life partner who did not want to be my life PARTNER. But that's my choice.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

If he wants to live at your house, he should be paying 1/2 of all the expenses.

Sorry but with 1 kid, that shouldn't even be considered an offset, we are talking penny pinching here.

Half of mortgage, utilities and food. Same for entertainment, restaurants etc.

Sounds like he is trying to save up as much as possible by living with you, but I will tell you to NOT throw that in his face/take a sensitive approach on the subject vs blame etc.

Partnership/relationships are all about balance. if both of you are working and doing about 1/2 the chores/responsibilities.....this should transfer over to finances as well.

Anytime you get away from 50/50 and the balance is swayed too much one way, WATCH OUT. Now, don't get me wrong, 60/40 and even 70/30 CAN work but it's best to keep it around 50/50 in your situation.

Also I think OP should consider what SHE thinks would be appropriate for her SO to pay/contribute. Are your expectations beyond 50/50 levels?

What I would recommend is to first define what you think is fair and have a serious conversation with your partner. Be positive/optimistic about it and smile when you do so.

If you guys can't reach a mutual agreement, politely ask him to move back to his house as you feel that it's not fair.

He shouldn't be bitter about it or let this effect the relationship (if he is mature/fair person). So you can use it as a little test.

Again, approach/HOW you do it will be crucial/VERY important here. Plan it out and put yourself in his shoes and approach it with your plan PRIOR to actually doing so.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Livvie said:


> Hello!
> 
> I have a question about what would be fair in this situation.
> 
> ...


Let him go. Buy a dog. Or get another guy.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

No less than $550 a month toward the mortgage and then say 25% of the utilities. Plus what does he think he should eat on your dime also?


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

boy where did you find this skinflint? And why did you not work this out BEFORE he moved in? 

I would think splitting the mortgage monthly payment and since he makes more than you, he pays 2/3 the family food bill.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

He's *chosen *to take advantage of you instead of being fair and splitting most bills and housing costs down the middle.

Take heed. He's *showing *you without a doubt who he is.


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## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

Livvie said:


> Hello!
> 
> I have a question about what would be fair in this situation.
> 
> ...


I don't like the fact that he is unwilling to take on half of the burden of everything, especially since he earns twice as much as you do and can afford it. There is a lack of generosity in spirit that that I don't like especially if you are going to share your lives together, for better or for worse. It looks like he doesn't want to take on the worse part, and the way he calculated the living and housing expenses seems more like a roommate situation than a love-match situation. 

I guess the first mistake is letting him move in without discussing finances first. 

The good thing is that you are not married to him yet. He has shown you his real self.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

coffee4me said:


> You are being taken advantage of. What is his reasoning for only paying $200 a month toward his housing cost?
> 
> Single rooms rent for $600 where I live.


His reasoning is that that's all the money he has...which is untrue. And he stated: Why should he pay to build equity in a home he doesn't own? My thinking is he owns his own home, too and is building equity there by having a tenant because he lives on my home!


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

loveadvice said:


> the way he calculated the living and housing expenses seems more like a roommate situation than a love-match situation.


It's actually much worse than that. He's offering $200 per month for housing, plus another $200 for utilities. A roommate would pay for more than that per month.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Livvie said:


> His reasoning is that that's all the money he has...which is untrue. And he stated: Why should he pay to build equity in a home he doesn't own? My thinking is he owns his own home, too and is building equity there by having a tenant because he lives on my home!


Yes, you are seeing him for who he is. A liar, and someone who is only looking out for his own benefit.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

DoF said:


> If he wants to live at your house, he should be paying 1/2 of all the expenses.
> 
> Sorry but with 1 kid, that shouldn't even be considered an offset, we are talking penny pinching here.
> 
> ...


1/2 the mortgage, but she gets to keep the equity? Um, no.


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## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

Livvie said:


> His reasoning is that that's all the money he has...which is untrue. And he stated: Why should he pay to build equity in a home he doesn't own? My thinking is he owns his own home, too and is building equity there by having a tenant because he lives on my home!


You are absolutely correct!

If you already think that he is lying to you, why are you staying with someone who lies to you to gain an advantage?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> 1/2 the mortgage, but she gets to keep the equity? Um, no.


He shouldn't have moved in then, if all he wants to pay is $200 per month in rent. He also owns a home, and by moving in with her, he is reaping all the equity in that home plus all the rent he receives from his tenant - at his gf's expense.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

My SO and I are going through our budgets and financials right now, with the plan to move in together to her house. We've lumped together our incomes (minus my support payments), added up ALL of our expenses, and splitting things evenly. What's left over will go into a shared savings/retirement bucket. I would consider this a very equal partnership I don't feel like a "tenant" or houseguest of hers, and we will talk to a lawyer to draw up a document to cover house equity/ownership (as I'll be going on the mortgage). 

Your guy is proposing a sweetheart deal that seems unfairly tilted in his favor. But you should have had the financial discussion before he moved in. 

C

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

He is taking advantage of you. Period. He lives there and uses the house as he pleases so, half of the mortgage for sure. Utilities...I can't even believe he is being this petty, but whatever. He needs to pay at least 1/4 of it since there are 4 people living in the house. I wouldn't even let that slide though because he is taking your kids utility use into account and that is just petty. 


You are a single mom with a HOME that is YOURS. Don't allow this guy to come into your life and take advantage of that. If it were the other way around, he wouldn't hesitate to charge you for half of everything. 

Just tell him to find somewhere else to live for $400.00 a month with food and utilities included. He won't be able to.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts!!!


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## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

You can clearly see that he is not a man with a good character. He lies, he's selfish, he's thinking only for himself and not for you, and he's not fair. If you can see all that now, it's not going to get better later even if he decides to pay for half of the mortgage and the utilities. There will be other issues that will come up later that will be related to his selfishness, and tendency to lie. When looking for a partner, you should first look to the person's character. Kick him out even if he says he'll pay for half because he has already shown you his bad character. Thank him for this because you found out earlier than later.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Perhaps 1/2 the interest on the loan, plus a fair interest on 1/2 the down payment, plus 1/2 the utilities with no adjustment for the kids (since they don't make much difference really) plus a 10% margin.

Actually I'm being a bit facetious. It's really impossible to split things fairly when you're shacking up and trying to keep everything separate. How could you ever take everything into account? Groceries, dining out, vacations....there are a ton of expenses that would have to be split somehow taking into account equity etc...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Perhaps 1/2 the interest on the loan, plus a fair interest on 1/2 the down payment, plus 1/2 the utilities with no adjustment for the kids (since they don't make much difference really) plus a 10% margin.
> 
> Actually I'm being a bit facetious. It's really impossible to split things fairly when you're shacking up and trying to keep everything separate. How could you ever take everything into account? Groceries, dining out, vacations....there are a ton of expenses that would have to be split somehow taking into account equity etc...


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

How much was he paying on his mortgage on the other house before he got renters to cover that cost? What would be fair is him taking half of what his mortgage used to be, figuring out what half your mortgage is and meet somewhere in the middle. 

That's my advice, of course, if you chose to continue with this relationship. However, I think you are seeing his true colors and may want to rethink your future. I am also concerned about his comment about how he is investing in YOUR equity. Umm, is this relationship not ending in marriage? Wouldn't it be equity for both of you? 

Oh, and please don't me started on his attitude regarding his child's education.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

coffee4me said:


> I you some how think this man is going to be into a long term living situation with you. Please check the laws in your state regarding your home. In some instances in a long term partnership arrangement where both parties are paying half the mortgage the non deeded party can file for part ownership in the home. Not saying they will win but make sure you protect yourself and your home ownership with this man or any man you invite to live in your home.


Thanks!!!


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> 1/2 the mortgage, but she gets to keep the equity? Um, no.


Well, if he is in it long term.....he is paying for BOTH of their equity, isn't he?

He can always move back to his own house and pay off his own equity.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Livvie said:


> Hi,
> 
> Half of what he used to pay is over half of what my mortgage is! His $200.00 a month proposal is less than 1/3 of what he used to pay.
> 
> I agree with what you said about the equity. This whole issue has made me feel horrible and very sad. Not good.


It should make you feel horrible and very sad. And that's why you need to think things through and figure out what you think is fair.

IMO, you made a HUGE mistake by not doing ALL of this PRIOR to him moving in. Let this be a lesson for you.

You still need to deal with it IMO. $400 a month is not enough/or fair IMO and he is taking advantage of you.

How long have you been with this man?



Livvie said:


> Thanks for this....yes....I agree, it's either a partnership or it's NOT. I was married for 16 years, and we were all in together, finances were never an issue.
> 
> I wanted this man to be a partner...and I have a lot to offer financially as a partner (I'm not a freeloader!!) he's not a partner.


Slow down a bit, he is as much of a partner as you allow him to be!

Over the years I've seen people do finances 2 different ways. They both work pretty well from what I gather.

1 - everything in one pile >both decide aka what you call partnership 

2 - finances completely separate > 50% split on expenses down the middle.

I wouldn't go as far as saying "he is not a partner" or holding that against him because he believes in #2. There is nothing wrong with that and plenty of marriages work this way.

Another words, just because it's different or something you are not used to, doesn't mean it's wrong.

It's up to you to decide. I'm still curious to know how long you have been with him (please PLEASE tell me it's been at least a year or 2.....)


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

Hey Livvie. I have been in the same boat as you and all that will happen is that you will get more and more resentful. 

Let me give you some examples. I too made the mistake of having my partner move in with me and not discussing all of the financials. We opened a joint bank account and moved forward. At first it was new and exciting, yada, yada, yada. Before she moved in, she owned a home and mentioned she had some minor debts. No big deal, lots in this situation. We can work on those things. We rented her house and got her settled in my home. Rent covers the mortgage plus a little extra and she has a job. All good, right?

Fast forward a couple of years and I am more than a little upset. Shortly after moving in and getting married, she demands, not asks, that I pay her credit debt. She had mentioned she had a little debt, turns out it was over $20k! I will help, but she incurred the debt and I expect her to pay it off. She does not like that. To this day, she has never contributed a cent to the mortgage, buys food maybe once a month, and only pays the cable bill. If we go on a trip or vacation, I am expected to pay for everything. She gets very annoyed when I mentioned I feel like an ATM machine. This is a woman who has a decent job with benefits, yet is always "tapped out" financially. I understand that she has kids and bills, but so do I and every little thing helps out. And that joint account we have, I am the only one every to ever put money in the account.

Long story short, don't expect him to change. I would recommend that he give notice to his renters that they need to find a new home to rent. Find someone that is willing to go in with both feet in your relationship, emotionally and financially. I am getting very bitter about my relationship and the fact that I have allowed it to continue to the point it is now. Don't end up like me.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm curious, C3156, why do you stay in this relationship?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

loveadvice said:


> You can clearly see that he is not a man with a good character. He lies, he's selfish, he's thinking only for himself and not for you, and he's not fair. If you can see all that now, it's not going to get better later even if he decides to pay for half of the mortgage and the utilities. There will be other issues that will come up later that will be related to his selfishness, and tendency to lie. When looking for a partner, you should first look to the person's character. Kick him out even if he says he'll pay for half because he has already shown you his bad character. Thank him for this because you found out earlier than later.


I think this is a bit extreme. We all have a little bit of selfishness within us......and even lie when the situation allows for it.

I think the bigger issue is the OP vs her boyfriend. She allowed for this to happen by letting him "move in" without any kind of agreement.

Just look at what PBear did, it's a NIGHT AND DAY difference and probably a more mature/adult way to go about it.

You simply don't allow people to move into your house without some kind of agreement. 

OP should really look in the mirror and figure out what mistakes she has made and what lead her to allow for such situation.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

C3156 said:


> Hey Livvie. I have been in the same boat as you and all that will happen is that you will get more and more resentful.
> 
> Let me give you some examples. I too made the mistake of having my partner move in with me and not discussing all of the financials. We opened a joint bank account and moved forward. At first it was new and exciting, yada, yada, yada. Before she moved in, she owned a home and mentioned she had some minor debts. No big deal, lots in this situation. We can work on those things. We rented her house and got her settled in my home. Rent covers the mortgage plus a little extra and she has a job. All good, right?
> 
> ...


Sorry to tell you this, but I blame YOU more than I blame HER.

Without an enabler there will be no people that take advantage of others.

Demand you said? And you actually put up with that crap?

Time to evaluate YOURSELF deeply and figure out what is wrong with you. 

Dealing with her proper will come later.......sorry


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Let me play the devil's advocate here...

400 a month is not a lot, so much is true... but maybe the guy is a born negotiator and this is just an opening bid. Maybe he's expecting a counteroffer so both parties can reach a middle ground and shake hands happily. 

OP didn't say how much the rent is on his house, minus his own mortgage and expenses. Also a factor.

And she acknowledged his money is tight, so that was not a lie of his part.

She may not have such a bad deal, given the circumstances and if the initial offer is upped a bit (unclear if food is included, that would change everything of course).

Because, whatever way you want to turn it, without his presence he wouldnt contribute anything financially instead of the x00 $ he's going to now.

All factors to be considered is all.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DoF said:


> It should make you feel horrible and very sad. And that's why you need to think things through and figure out what you think is fair.
> 
> IMO, you made a HUGE mistake by not doing ALL of this PRIOR to him moving in. Let this be a lesson for you.
> 
> ...


.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

EasyPartner said:


> Let me play the devil's advocate here...
> 
> 400 a month is not a lot, so much is true... but maybe the guy is a born negotiator and this is just an opening bid. Maybe he's expecting a counteroffer so both parties can reach a middle ground and shake hands happily.
> 
> ...


.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

norajane said:


> I'm curious, C3156, why do you stay in this relationship?





DoF said:


> Sorry to tell you this, but I blame YOU more than I blame HER.
> 
> Without an enabler there will be no people that take advantage of others.
> 
> ...



Not to derail the OP, but I realize that I am an enabler. Not to mention a Knight in Shining Armor. I knew in my gut that this relationship was not good, yet I let it play out. Shame on me for not listening to my little voice.

This has been an expensive mistake that could have been avoided. I will have to start my own thread to really let the light in on things.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Livvie said:


> I know it was a mistake not to discuss this prior to him moving in. I let the moving in happen because I was scared of his reaction if I said we weren't ready (someone contacted him who wanted to rent his place). YES I know that is my issue and that I have _a lot_ of personal work to do asserting myself. We have been together over three years. Stormy and full of issues.


pfew, glad it was 3 years. 





Livvie said:


> I would be okay with either #1 or 2, but what's going on here is #3....me paying $1,200 a month and him paying $400 a month (mortgage and all utilities including heating oil) to live. That's so unbalanced it's choking me!!!!


that's just not fair

What about food and other expenses?

You know what I would do, open up your book and list your monthly expenses. Hand it to him and punt the ball into his court.

"Tell me honey, what do you think is an appropriate/fair amount for you to contribute?"

If he comes back with the same $400 or something that's not fair. Tell him how you feel about that (if it's fair or not) and politely ask him to move back to his house?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

C3156 said:


> Not to derail the OP, but I realize that I am an enabler. Not to mention a Knight in Shining Armor. I knew in my gut that this relationship was not good, yet I let it play out. Shame on me for not listening to my little voice.
> 
> This has been an expensive mistake that could have been avoided. I will have to start my own thread to really let the light in on things.


By all means do so, we would love to help.

But first, it seems like you already know yourself pretty well. I would suggest you sit down that think things through yourself. 

Adding what you feel/think is the best approach to your thread would be helpful and go a long way to tell us that you are serious about addressing issues in your life.

Identifying an issue is the FIRST step of resolving it.  :smthumbup:


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Livvie said:


> True, without him, there would be NO contribution. However...I don't think an extra $200.00 a month toward my mortgage is worth feeling taken advantage of by someone who is supposed to be my partner and love. As I see his savings grow because he is paying so little of his fair share to live together, I am sure it will eat at me.


I think you should be happy that he is able to save and his savings account grows. I'm sure you will see some of that money in some shape or form (maybe a gift....vacation.....etc).

Being able to save/having savings is a great thing (and if you are jealous, that's completely normal too.....just don't hate on it).

It's also an indicator of financially responsible person.

Focus on contribution towards household/family, do not weave off the issue at hand and start with jealousy/other BS things.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Livvie said:


> True, without him, there would be NO contribution. However...I don't think an extra $200.00 a month toward my mortgage is worth feeling taken advantage of by someone who is supposed to be my partner and love. As I see his savings grow because he is paying so little of his fair share to live together, I am sure it will eat at me.


Ok... how much would it take for you not FEELING taken advantage of?

Earlier you said you paying 1200 and he 400 (doesn't matter how much is for mortgage and for utilities) was off balance... not saying it is not but what kind of figure are you looking for?

Would it make a difference if your house was all payed for? How much would your rate be then?


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

DoF said:


> I think you should be happy that he is able to save and his savings account grows. I'm sure you will see some of that money in some shape or form (maybe a gift....vacation.....etc).
> 
> Being able to save/having savings is a great thing (and if you are jealous, that's completely normal too.....just don't hate on it).
> 
> ...


I doubt though that saving by shorting someone else is anything to celebrate. I mean, I could "save" money by shorting what I throw in when I go out to dinner with friends. I doubt seriously that my friends will be thrilled on my behalf though...

I'm also pretty sure that "saving" on rent and utilities isn't going to result in better jewelry at Christmas. I'm guessing his money stays right where it is, in his pocket.

As far as what an equitable division looks like, I think you need to look at the total expenses for operating the house. Then negotiate a fair division based on income and use. I mention use because I believe that you have a child in the house and he does not? I can understand not wanting to subsidize someone else's kid, but you're in fact subsidizing his kid by absorbing the loss on his living expenses. 

Most importantly, I would see an attorney and draft a cohabitation agreement that lines out the assets and the obligations that you both bring to this living arrangement. Absolutely do this to document the agreement AND protect your equity in the home. If you have him contribute toward the mortgage, then he can come back and sue for "his" part of the equity, even if he isn't on the mortgage or title. I would skew his contribution toward utilities and consumables, if need be to avoid giving him any claim on your home.

But really, three years of dating that you describe as "stormy and full of issues" and now you're having major disagreements on the terms of living together, after the fact. What exactly is worth hanging onto here?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

COGypsy said:


> I doubt though that saving by shorting someone else is anything to celebrate. I mean, I could "save" money by shorting what I throw in when I go out to dinner with friends. I doubt seriously that my friends will be thrilled on my behalf though...


Well of course, that's assumed



COGypsy said:


> I'm also pretty sure that "saving" on rent and utilities isn't going to result in better jewelry at Christmas. I'm guessing his money stays right where it is, in his pocket.


That's a indicator of selfish/not relationship material. But it's also a BIG assumption to make. 

We don't know enough about OP boyfriend to say that he doesn't share/give well.




COGypsy said:


> As far as what an equitable division looks like, I think you need to look at the total expenses for operating the house. Then negotiate a fair division based on income and use. I mention use because I believe that you have a child in the house and he does not? I can understand not wanting to subsidize someone else's kid, but you're in fact subsidizing his kid by absorbing the loss on his living expenses.
> 
> Most importantly, I would see an attorney and draft a cohabitation agreement that lines out the assets and the obligations that you both bring to this living arrangement. Absolutely do this to document the agreement AND protect your equity in the home. If you have him contribute toward the mortgage, then he can come back and sue for "his" part of the equity, even if he isn't on the mortgage or title. I would skew his contribution toward utilities and consumables, if need be to avoid giving him any claim on your home.


Agreed



COGypsy said:


> But really, three years of dating that you describe as "stormy and full of issues" and now you're having major disagreements on the terms of living together, after the fact. What exactly is worth hanging onto here?


I was going to ask this as well (what the issues are)......


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You could check out the 'room for rent' ads for your neighborhood and see what you could realistically charge to rent a spare bedroom. That might be an indicator of what would be fair for him to contribute.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> You could check out the 'room for rent' ads for your neighborhood and see what you could realistically charge to rent a spare bedroom. That might be an indicator of what would be fair for him to contribute.


I have. $800 with utilities included, or $675 and renter pays utilities. That's renting space in someone's home (bedroom and living area).


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Then there's your figure. He can pony up or hit the road. You're not his sugar mama.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Under those conditions, I think you should charge for sex. ;-)
Just kidding, but honestly, I hope he's not bragging to his friends how great his situation is, how a single mom is the way to go (MILF) since you know no matter what they're going to pay rent/mortgage and put a meal on the table every night and do the laundry and keep house for their kids.

I can't believe you let him move in without discussing expenses first.

But, if you're feeling it's unfair, you're not far off the mark.

Since it's your place and his name isn't on a lease or a mortgage, you can feel free to give him walking papers.

I once dumped a guy because he started showing up for dinner every night even without making arrangements. 6'3" and manual labor, I don't think so! Feeding him would have at least doubled my grocery bill, at least, and so what if he helped with the dishes, he should be doing that anyhow! He should have offered to help with the groceries. He didn't.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

And while he's living in your home, you lose your freedom to date around or just have breathing space if you decide he's not the guy for you, or need to think about it. Ugh. 

The downside of this is that if he starts giving you fair rent and expenses, you may grow to be dependent on him, and I personally don't think he sounds like the kind of guy you want to be dependent on.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Livvie said:


> Being able to save is great. Saving because you are paying $400.00 a month to live, as an adult man, because your girlfriend picks up the rest seems like a *savings plan at the expense of another.* In my opinion that isn't financially responsible. Would you say the same thing if a high earner female let her lower earning boyfriend subsidize her living so she could save for herself?
> 
> He has let me pay for most of his utilities for years now with no offer to help. He is not the pay it forward type. If he was, I wouldn't be feeling like this.


Livvie, in my opinion, the bolded in your statement is key.

You are with a man who is very willing to gain at your expense.

Back when I was single, this was the key point for me, it was the first item I explored when I found someone interesting. It was a quick and very reliable indicator of someone with Good Husband potential.

Anyone who is willing to make his life easier/more profitable/more enjoyable by making YOUR life LESS easy/less profitable/less enjoyable- that my man is a "chicken dinner." He is only going to degrade your quality of life.

You two were in a position for a true win-win where you both were able to save money and work towards a more stable future. He could still pay much less than he did on his mortgage and still pay enough to seriously help you. You would both be gaining together. TOTAL FAIL here.

Have you spoken at length with him about this? Have you asked him to contribute more? 

You've already invested three "stormy" years. I think you should seriously start to think about your opportunity costs. He might be trainable, but honestly it does not look good to me. A person who is willing to gain at your expense is selfish, and it is very hard to change that trait.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> And while he's living in your home, you lose your freedom to date around or just have breathing space if you decide he's not the guy for you, or need to think about it. Ugh.
> 
> The downside of this is that if he starts giving you fair rent and expenses, you may grow to be dependent on him, and I personally don't think he sounds like the kind of guy you want to be dependent on.


:iagree:I posted at the same time. 

Your guy is willing to take advantage of you when are well; can you imagine what he would do if you were sick? *shivers*


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Livvie said:


> We have been together over three years. Stormy and full of issues.


What kind of issues? Maybe your answer lies there - maybe this relationship isn't the right one for you, but you're trying to make it fit for some reason.

Don't settle. You'll live to regret it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

Livvie said:


> I have. $800 with utilities included, or $675 and renter pays utilities. That's renting space in someone's home (bedroom and living area).


How much is he renting his house out for? Is he paying their utilities? I am guessing not. 

What is your total for:
1. Mortgage
2. Property tax
3. Home insurance
4. Annual maintenance (guess here but consider furnaces evetuallu go out, water heaters break, lawn mowers need replacement, etc)
5. Ultilities (heat, AC, Internet, cable, etc)
6. Food

If you toal that, what portion would you feel good with him paying? I would start with asking him for somewhere between 1/3 (if you consider your kids to use about 1/3 of the utilities) and 1/2. I am sure it will total more than $400/month.

If he balks because you are building equity, ask him if he is giving his renters a break because they are building his equity? Also, the first several years of a mortgage, you are mostly paying interest! So you are not building much equity if you are just a year into owning the home.

My husband is renting a tiny room in a house for $400/mo out of state in an economically depressed area (so cheap rents) where he is working right now. Utilities are included but he about froze this past winter (thermostat set low to save $) and no food is provided. He also did most if the cleaning and buys all the cleaning supplies (disgusting habits of the other 2 guys in the house) and he did most of the shoveling since he was the only one worried about getting out of the driveway to work.

I assume your living conditions are much better for him so him paying only $400 is ridiculous. Why should you fund his savings? Ask him to fund your savings for your kids' college education! See if he is willing.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Livvie said:


> Hi again...
> 
> I feel so awful.. My stomach is in a knot and I am drained. Thank you for all of the thoughts and advice here. It means a lot!!!
> 
> ...


You probably already know how to feel better.
I was in a similar situation, got sick and it almost killed me because of the additional stress of sharing my home with someone like this (and my kids.) We are all much much happier now. And since I own my own time and can cut costs without having to get another (irrational and controlling) person on board, I can take on more work and cut costs at the same time, while also increasing my free time, r&r. It is so much better.

Of course women can succeed even as single parents, just as well as men. There is no reason you can't, you have managed these past three years, the future will be a breeze.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

_Posted via Mobile Device_ Thank you for the words of support


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

call a lawyer. know your rights and then tell him to get the .....out.

good luck.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

DoF said:


> Well, if he is in it long term.....he is paying for BOTH of their equity, isn't he?
> 
> He can always move back to his own house and pay off his own equity.


I agree that he is using her but this is wrong. If they begin living like they think they are married then they should hand over half of their retirement savings to each other now since it will eventually happen.

Never ever begin living a relationship like you are married until you are engaged. Especially with finances.

With that said, he is cheap and should be paying more.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why does it matter if he is contributing to the equity in her home? If he were renting from a landlord, he would be paying the equity in that property. This argument is a red herring.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

In Canada, once he is living with you for a period of time, you would be considered in a 'common law' relationship and he will be entitled to 50% of the equity growth in your property from the time he moved in. Whether he was paying for it or not. 

My opinion is to get out of this relationship. Just proposing what he did shows that he doesn't possess the character needed for a long term relationship.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I think he should be paying half of all utilities and food, but I'd be very careful about letting him pay into the mortgage - you want to be careful that he couldn't make a claim against your home if you break up down the track. 

It doesn't make much difference where I live in Australia, if a couple lives together for 2 years then the house is split 50/50 anyway, married or not. 

It's absolute penny pinching on his behalf, expecting you to reduce his share of utilities for what your children use. For goodness sake, just pay it already mate!


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Livvie said:


> It would be different if the house were paid for. I would have more financial freedom and would be in a position to OFFER to provide housing for free for my partner if I wanted. The actual financial reality is that I wonder what my financial future holds, day to day and month to month. I am not a high earner and work hard to keep a home.


You don't need him, or his 400$ per month. You own your own home and you have a job. Being lonely can lead to making some poor choices. You've been with him for a few years, you said it has been a stormy relationship, and on top of that he's not even an equal financial partner. Being stingy is a very bad character flaw.

Get rid of him. No debating, no negotiating. He doesn't have your best interests at heart. He has his own best interests at heart. Look at this time spent with him as a learning experience. You can find someone else.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Livvie said:


> His reasoning is that that's all the money he has...which is untrue. And he stated: Why should he pay to build equity in a home he doesn't own? My thinking is he owns his own home, too and is building equity there by having a tenant because he lives on my home!


This tells me he is not in it for the long haul. However, the fact is that I only paid my DH about $50 a week rent when I moved in with him, and that was at my insistence. We shared all the expenses. If you are going to be with someone unto death, these little things don't really matter. If you aren't, they really do, and if you aren't, should he really be living with you?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

breeze said:


> This tells me he is not in it for the long haul. However, the fact is that I only paid my DH about $50 a week rent when I moved in with him, and that was at my insistence. We shared all the expenses. If you are going to be with someone unto death, these little things don't really matter. If you aren't, they really do, and if you aren't, should he really be living with you?


It sounds like the guy did not discuss beforehand, sounds like he moved in expecting to pay nothing, and now he's just being cheap. 

Plus the stormy relationship. 

Your situation applies for people who are harmonious and respectful. Not everyone is like that.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Omego said:


> You don't need him, or his 400$ per month. You own your own home and you have a job. Being lonely can lead to making some poor choices. You've been with him for a few years, you said it has been a stormy relationship, and on top of that he's not even an equal financial partner. Being stingy is a very bad character flaw.
> 
> Get rid of him. No debating, no negotiating. He doesn't have your best interests at heart. He has his own best interests at heart. Look at this time spent with him as a learning experience. You can find someone else.


.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I really appreciate everyone's replies and perspective, thank you for being here.....


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Livvie said:


> I hear this....no, he is not a financial partner, he is not a life partner. This situation has brought everything to a head. Hitting rock bottom. Thank you for your thoughts.


Hang in there, Livvie. You're a smart woman. Your relationship progressed and you saw the red flags. It hurts, but you are wise and strong to make the hard decisions now. You will get through this to a much brighter future.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If he were truly your "partner", we wouldn't be having this discussion. Partners don't quibble over nickles. They both give their all to the success of the household and the relationship. The fact that he is content to contribute less with you than he would in any other rental arrangement identifies him as an exploiter. Does he have a history of taking advantage of others or of selfish behavior or does he reserve these wonderful traits just for you? I'm picturing you and him walking across the desert with two canteens. He's drinking one himself and showering with the other.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

RoseAglow said:


> Hang in there, Livvie. You're a smart woman. Your relationship progressed and you saw the red flags. It hurts, but you are wise and strong to make the hard decisions now. You will get through this to a much brighter future.


:iagree::iagree:


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## Aspydad (Oct 17, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> 1/2 the mortgage, but she gets to keep the equity? Um, no.


Half the mortgage is more than fair. Believe me, when you rent (which is what the partner is doing) you keep NO EQUITY!! I would assume that the OP is responsible for property taxes, home insurance, and maintenance - paying half the mortgage is actually a hell of deal here!!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Aspydad said:


> Half the mortgage is more than fair. Believe me, when you rent (which is what the partner is doing) you keep NO EQUITY!! I would assume that the OP is responsible for property taxes, home insurance, and maintenance - paying half the mortgage is actually a hell of deal here!!


yes, but he is making money and building equity in the property that he owns and is currently renting out..... something that he would not be able to do if he could not find another place to live whether with Livvie or anywhere else.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Livvie, I feel for you. When I was recently divorced I met a guy while skiing with my sisters. He took an interest in me and my sister and parents took an interest in our relationship.

I told him that I was happy where I was and so he said he would make the effort to move there. Hinting to me and my family that he was on the marriage track. 

he also asked if he could move in with me ....indefinitely....... and he said, would "pay something towards the rent and then I could make money off of him." Well, if we were destined to marry each other, why on earth would I be interested in making money off of him since my money would be his money some time soon.

It's amazing what some women think. I obviously did not love him enough. My sister said that he had been acting like a bf and now he wanted the gf treatment from me.

My parents told me that I was not going to do better....yeah, I guess a black woman in her 40s....... at least this one wasn't in jail right,......

Interestingly enough though, he made a 6 figure salary and was ready to throw his earning power away by accepting the first job offer that he got...... which leads me to believe that maybe he was thinking since I live in London and he was in the US, he could have an easy year in Europe and without any obligations like a rental contract, he could just pick up leave whenever he wants to.....

I turned down his "offer" immediately. And after giving a lot of thought to that incident and others, was able to articulate to my self what I wanted to see in a relationship before I felt secure.

I really do have to see the guy making an "investment" in the relationship. Someone who takes up a lot of my time but wants to split everything 50 /50 ( so that he can take the money saved and date someone else or hang out with his EA) was not going to work for me. 

and someone like this guy who wanted to move in with me, who seemed to constantly try to wrap me up in longterm agreements where I had obligations to him (like giving him room and board) .... all I can say is wow.... just wow.....

But it does seem as if men can get really far when they start throwing the "M" word around.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"pay something towards the rent and then I could make money off of him." 

Wow, that just made me get all goose-pimply. How romantic! And, how generous! What a d!ck.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

RoseAglow said:


> Hang in there, Livvie. You're a smart woman. Your relationship progressed and you saw the red flags. It hurts, but you are wise and strong to make the hard decisions now. You will get through this to a much brighter future.


And most importantly, in the future, take your time and recognize/identify the person in front of you. DO NOT ignore red flags.

Read up on "Honeymoon" phase, this is important!!!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You shouldn't "shack up" with a minor child in your home.
Get him out ASAP. If he's not marriage material, you should not be mixing finances in any way, shape or form.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Livvie said:


> Yes, I need to heed them for sure! I DID ignore them. It was post divorce, I hadn't dated anyone in 18 years. I let things slide that I shouldn't have, and it's all coming home now (ha, pun intended).


And that's completely ok. Live and learn.

Some NEVER learn, so if you are willing to adjust and learn from your past experiences you are already head of the game.



Good luck!


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## TurtleRun (Oct 18, 2013)

50/50. 

Doesn't matter if you have the kids living with you or not. If he factors in the kids then he thinks yours and his life are separate... if that is so then he should get his own place. Halfway is the only balance.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

TurtleRun said:


> 50/50.
> 
> Doesn't matter if you have the kids living with you or not. If he factors in the kids then he thinks yours and his life are separate... if that is so then he should get his own place. Halfway is the only balance.


I agree with this. I thought partner and child(ren) are supposed to be a single package. in that case, a partner shouldn't quibble over overhead. ie You're going to get gas and electric whether or not you have children.


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