# Young And Soon To Be Divorced



## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Hi all,

I'm a young man, 28, and married to who I thought would be by my side for life. As I'm posting in this forum we can all assume that is not the case and a separation will be drafted next week. I am starting to see that in my relationship I was a victim of verbal and emotional abuse - which is very hard to admit or see. I don't know what I am looking for by posting my experience here, but perhaps some honest conversation and support would be my goal.

My wife and I have been together for 3 1/2 years, married for just over 2 years. We have had our ups and downs as any marriage does, but Sunday night a line was crossed and I don't have the strength to try and mend this again. I apologize for the length of this first post, but some background will hopefully help with my situation.

We dated for 6 months long distance, approximately 4 hours of flying separated us. We did manage to see each other almost bi-weekly though as I have always been in a position professionally that time off and travel costs were not a huge burden for me. During this time my wife (gf at the time) would go off for 1 or 2 days without cell service and come back bragging about drunk she got with a large group of male friends. Bolstering this were claims of getting naked and how everyone always "hooked up" - except her of course, although she couldn't remember 85% of the weekend. She was young, in university, it was the way it was.

At the same time, I was carrying on some flirtatious conversations online with an old fling. Now that I look back on it I can say with 100% certainty I was being a child and looking to do something similar to what she was doing, it was ok for her to get black out drunk and most likely flirt with a number of people in person, I could do it online. 

At the 6 month mark she moved across the country and in with me. Within 2 months I had proposed to her and in another 6 we were married. 4 months after our wedding my wife went onto my Facebook page and started to snoop, within an hour she came across the conversations I had with this old fling and had a complete break down. She was convinced I was cheating on her during the time I was writing those messages, kicked me out of our home, said she never wanted to see me again. The next day we reconciled and I moved back home. 3 months later we moved to the opposite side of the country away from all of my friends and family (whom she never liked or had any interest in getting to know).

This was 18 months ago. Almost like clock work - every 4 months a fight based off of those messages comes back up. I am reminded of what a horrible person I am, that I am disgusting, a pig, and of course many other words and phrases. This is usually followed by me sleeping in the spare bedroom or her in the spare bedroom for a number of weeks. Over this time I again apologize and do everything I can to make things right. But, within 4 or so months another blow up occurs, and worse than the last.

After one of these fights my wife had said she wanted a divorce. This was one of the worst fights we had been through to date. I was on the couch for weeks, during this time I joined an online site for married people looking to step outside their bounds. I was drunk, sad, lonely, and looking for someone to talk to. I woke up in the morning, decided that it was a horrible idea and never looked at it again. As usual, a few weeks later we reconciled. Then, months later, my wife somehow finds the old profile and assumes it is me. This is the day I returned home from day surgery and a week prior to Christmas. She threatened to call the police and say I was abusing her, through stuff around our house and once again kicked me out. This time I almost ended it. I have a lawyer on retainer due to my business who also dabbles in family law, I went in and spoke with her and started to put paperwork together for a separation agreement. But, against all advice from family, friends and my lawyer I went home, we reconciled, and over the next few weeks got back to center. I really did think that was the last major blow up for us. It got bad, we both regretted what we had done, and both wanted to make this work.

Fast forward to this weekend... We are on what is supposed to be a vacation of our lifetime in France for the F1 race in Monaco. Everything is going ok, not great but ok, and then on Sunday night she gets bumped by a security guard in a crowded line while we are trying to exit a hotel. In her mind I was supposed to stand up and fight the guy, I chose to pull her aside and let him pass as it wasn't worth our effort. Due to this I do not support her and am in turn a worthless human being.

The shove from the security guard then starts a cascade of fighting from her - I cheated on her 3 years ago with the internet ****, I was trying to cheat on the website, I am a cheap ******* who only spends money on themselves etc. The really gritty details will be left out, but needless to say I'm now sleeping alone in a 5 star hotel in Nice while she stays with family in London. I paid for her to take a last minute to London while I stayed here.

Now I'm not a perfect husband. I do lose focus at times, I stress too much about work and I have a crude sense of humour. BUT I've never cheated, and never thought of it. Below is a list of what I do do in our relationship.

Pay for her university.
Pay every bill and vacation
Cook every meal
Buy all the groceries
Clean up after the animals
- Plan a vow renewal (this past thursday) on the side of a castle in the french riviera - to which she loves and enjoys and then decides to leave on Sunday.
Apologize for all mistakes - whether they are mine or not
Give her foot rubs
Give her back rubs
Buy her gifts, flowers, dresses etc.
Make time for her every night
Try to keep the house clean
Work non stop to afford our lifestyle
Do absolutely anything she asks me to, no questions asked
Offer to help with anything else

What she has done
Gone to school - not yet finished
does not cook
does not clean
does not do yard work
gets angry at "men" in general and then takes it out on me for days on end

I can continue on, but this is where it all sits at this time. I'm terrified that when I get home on Thursday I'm going to watch my life slowly fade away.

To top this off, her father is currently house sitting for us and taking care of our two dogs. He's also picking us up from the airport (she's flying back to france on wednesday so she can catch our original flight back home). I am planning on driving everyone back to the house, dropping her and her father off and then getting a hotel for a few days so that they can talk. 

My current feelings - some relief that this is over, mostly terrified of what is to come, and grief that I couldn't make this work along with disappointment in myself.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

No kids.....should be a clean break. You will stand to lose some $$$ but life is too short to be miserable. You made some mistakes, own them and move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## legiox (Sep 2, 2012)

Her getting drunk with a bunch of male friends (no matter what she says about what happened) should of been a HUGH RED FLAG. I to am young and about to be divorced in 2 months (I hate the North Carolina 1year wait). MY STBXW was a party girl, i didnt see it and was blinded by my love for her. Fast forward now, she left me to live the single life.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Definitely no kids - so yes, aside from the financial woes it should be a clean-ish break. 

As with everything - there is more to it as well. My wife is here on a visa and I have sponsored her for residency. I have been with her through much of her schooling which has always been completed on a student visa. These visas are now expired due to our application for residency. If I withdraw my sponsorship her application will get rejected, she will not complete school, and will most likely have to go back to London UK.

I do not want this. For all the issues we've had - I do not feel it to be fair for her to be forced to fail in her schooling due to our marriage falling apart. She's a fairly fragile woman who explodes with anger to mask the frailty - if she is unable to complete her schooling I'm afraid she'll fall apart.

But, I do not want to stay on as a sponsor as if her application is approved I'm then responsible financially for her for 10 years. With a divorce looming, there is no way I can take on that responsibility. 

What do I do? I understand that once we go down this path I'm supposed to stop worrying about her and worry about myself - but I'm not really wired that way.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

@legoix

She has made more comments than i can count about how much she hates the responsibility of marriage. We've had countless fights about how she wants an open marriage (which she doesn't really, but it fires me up so she says it) and to find someone with more money to buy her things I can't. I used to be a pretty confident outgoing guy, all of the crap I've been put through has pretty worn it all out of me.

For example - I was in on the waterfront in Nice, France tonight. 5 years ago I would have been in a lounge, having a drink, chatting up everyone from the 90yr old drunk in the corner to the attractive 20 yr old at the bar. Tonight - I walked along the water and sat on a bench by myself. This was followed by a dinner alone in the corner of the restaurant and a walk up to my hotel room. 

I don't even feel like the same person anymore, just doesn't feel right.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Ask this question...what would your wife do is the roles were reversed? You think she would be worried about your education?
Doesn't sound like she would be too caring. 
You have to read the book No More Mr Nice Guy. You sir are a nice guy. Time to change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

@richie33

I had this exact same conversation with a family member tonight. If the roles were reversed I'd actually be in jail. The amount of aggressive comments and borderline "abuse" would have been more than enough for my wife to call the police out for a domestic dispute. 

But, in the current situation - I'm 6'0" 210lbs and she's 5'1" 110lbs so it doesn't quite work like that.

I have atoned for my mistakes, apologized a thousand times, and attempted to talk about things she has done that have hurt me or been the jumping point for poor decisions made on my part. The response to those conversations is that all men are f'ing pigs and we need to be sterilized.

Oh, as another side note - I have been backed into a corner and within 2 months was supposed to have a vasectomy. My wife doesn't like how condoms feel, the patch on her side irritates her skin and pills give her large breasts. So the only solution in her eyes is for me to get snipped. In a way, I'm glad this has occurred now and not in 4 months.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Run....your 28 years old. You have a life that's waiting for you. This woman is not your soulmate. For Christ sake she wants to cut off your balls.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## legiox (Sep 2, 2012)

richie33 said:


> Run....your 28 years old. You have a life that's waiting for you. This woman is not your soulmate. For Christ sake she wants to cut off your balls.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


^^ Yes run.

There will be someone out there way better. How would you feel having a kid with this person? That should answer ur question.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Oh, definitely not having a kid with her. That said - I won't be having a kid with anyone else, most likely. I have a genetic "defect" which I'd be passing on to offspring 50/50 that almost guarantees them a form of cancer by the time they're 40. 

Perhaps that's just my feelings due to my marriage and the unwavering hatred of procreating that my wife possesses, only time will tell I guess.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

you married an entitled princess, run....leave skid marks

whines about everything, UGH

take her to a desert and tie her to a cactus and shave her head


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Her education is her issue to deal with, not yours. And don't kid yourself that she doesn't really want an open marriage --- my guess is that she does.

You are young and have no children. Move on.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

>>During this time my wife (gf at the time) would go off for 1 or 2 days without cell service and come back bragging about drunk she got with a large group of male friends. Bolstering this were claims of getting naked and how everyone always "hooked up" - except her of course, although she couldn't remember 85% of the weekend. She was young, in university, it was the way it was.<<

I can see why you thought she was marriage material.


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## zappy882000. (May 23, 2013)

BrokenM said:


> @legoix
> 
> She has made more comments than i can count about how much she hates the responsibility of marriage. We've had countless fights about how she wants an open marriage (which she doesn't really, but it fires me up so she says it) and to find someone with more money to buy her things I can't. I used to be a pretty confident outgoing guy, all of the crap I've been put through has pretty worn it all out of me.
> 
> ...


Story of my life brother. I can understand your feelings specially when you get betrayed by someone you loved the most, you tend to loose all the confidence.

I was just like you, an extrovert, intrepid and a go getter. But now that level of energy is long gone.

I am 31 and my wife is 29 and I loved her madly. She left and aborted our first kid when she was 6 months pregnant and never gave me a chane to speak to her again. Got influenced by her Divorced female friends and took restraining order against me by producing false witnesses.

My heart and soul bleeds every day, every second when I think of my life without her.

I had the best time of my life with her and I shudder when I think there will be a time when our D will be finalized and she will be gone.

I hope you are not too emotionally attached to her like I was to my wife, then it will be real easy for you to move on.

Zappy


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

zappy882000. said:


> Story of my life brother. I can understand your feelings specially when you get betrayed by someone you loved the most, you tend to loose all the confidence.
> 
> I was just like you, an extrovert, intrepid and a go getter. But now that level of energy is long gone.
> 
> ...




I can't begin to express my sympathy. I can say it gets better. But that's a "cheap -out-"


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

The more I've thought about this the last few days the less emotionally attached I've become. There are no tears anymore - just concern about how I am to handle the upcoming situation. How I am supposed to interact with her father who is currently house sitting for us. How to get out of this with the least financial responsibility possible. I know that when I get home she's going to try and patch this up, or push for me to make the first move to patching it up at least - but I am done. I can not continue on with this path.

Thank you for the support everyone.

@Conrad - at that time we were both young and partying a lot. I wasn't perfect, neither was she. I forgave her for those indiscretions many years ago - she can not forgive me for mine (which were nothing more than txt messages flirting with someone else after we had been dating for 3 months long distance).


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Not everyone who was young did those things.

Trust me on that.

It's about her character.

She's still showing you who she is.

Believe her.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

*****- she can not forgive me for mine (which were nothing more than txt messages flirting with someone else after we had been dating for 3 months long distance). 


she can't forgive you because she can not forgive herself

textbook blame shift 101


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Well, some updates...

Made it back home from the trip in one piece and now my wife is moving out on Saturday to a small condo. I'm taking over the house and I think she just wants to move on. I'm not going to be surprised if she more or less falls off the face of the earth, it's kind of her way.

I feel really bad as I sit here today. She's now moping around the house etc. Normally this is when I'd give in and we'd sit down to try and work it out - but I will not give in this time.

Thanks again for the advice and sounding board everyone.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

***I'm taking over the house and I think she just wants to move on****

Give her EXACTLY what she (thinks) she wants

Rise to 50k feet, observe.....

unless your situation is a rarity, it's far from over


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Give defiant people what they say they want.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

I agree. I can only hope that she sticks to it.

She has told me she has 3 options for her plan.

1 - find a job within a month here, she'll then stay in the condo she found.
2 - can't find a job here, move back to Winnipeg to be with her friends and go back to what it was before we met
3 - get another visa and go back to Thailand to teach english

She is a very stubborn person and will refuse every offering of help that I give her. With any luck she'll just continue to refuse until I have the papers settled next week and then I'll at least have some legal grounds with all of this.

There isn't any equity to share in our house or anything else as I went into crazy debt last year starting my business. I'm happy to take on all the debt accrued and the house and she can just walk away and start over. If she gets nasty and tries to go after things I'll get my lawyer back involved and just split it all as common property. In that case I wind up with 1/2 my debt taken over by her and she winds up with a huge amount of debt and probably having to vacate the country back to England as she won't be able to handle it.

I sound like an ******* in that last comment, sorry.



Chuck71 said:


> ***I'm taking over the house and I think she just wants to move on****
> 
> Give her EXACTLY what she (thinks) she wants
> 
> ...


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Oh, and it has now turned into tears on her end. The anger and defiance has kind of left her, she's now sobbing and crying while she packs all of her clothes into bags and gets ready to move out tomorrow.

I offered to help, offered to talk, but never offered an apology or to talk about getting back together. I want to try and find the right time to explain that neither of us are happy and this is good for us, but I'm sure it will just turn into another fight so I'll probably just stay quiet for now.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She wants a reaction and for you to save her

With no children, you may get a bit of insight from my thread(s)

15 years, no kids....it's hard to find a similar feeling

when a vast majority on TAM, are Ds with children


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Thanks Chuck,

How did it all proceed with you? Any further thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated...



Chuck71 said:


> She wants a reaction and for you to save her
> 
> With no children, you may get a bit of insight from my thread(s)
> 
> ...


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

*Re: Re: Young And Soon To Be Divorced*



BrokenM said:


> Oh, and it has now turned into tears on her end. The anger and defiance has kind of left her, she's now sobbing and crying while she packs all of her clothes into bags and gets ready to move out tomorrow.
> 
> I offered to help, offered to talk, but never offered an apology or to talk about getting back together. I want to try and find the right time to explain that neither of us are happy and this is good for us, but I'm sure it will just turn into another fight so I'll probably just stay quiet for now.


Do not offer a thing and don't explain a thing. The tears will turn to anger once you don't play ball.

If she really wants to ask something, she will ask.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

06D is spot on! He always is


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Yeah...this is a power play on her part...she has loved having all the power in your marriage...and you have spent it attending to her and her bottomless well of need...like throwing gold down a black hole. Be happy that you are reversing this trend right now. Do not let guilt (over NOTHING you should be guilty for) make you weak. I know you are a nice guy and that you loved this girl...and you would hate to see her struggle, but she is an unhappy person overall...YOU will never make her happy...a physical impossibility unless she chooses one day to get her stuff together. Nothing will be good enough for her...and the good feelings from all this stuff you arranged will just die out quicker and quicker. She has no respect for you and thinks anything you give her, she deserved anyway.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

misery always loves company........table for two sir?


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> misery always loves company........table for two sir?


Well, if you're buying...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

BrokenM said:


> Oh, and it has now turned into tears on her end. The anger and defiance has kind of left her, she's now sobbing and crying while she packs all of her clothes into bags and gets ready to move out tomorrow.
> 
> I offered to help, offered to talk, but never offered an apology or to talk about getting back together. I want to try and find the right time to explain that neither of us are happy and this is good for us, but I'm sure it will just turn into another fight so I'll probably just stay quiet for now.


She's tried mean... now she'll try for sympathy.

Where's my enabler?!!

Dammit.. where is he?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

*Re: Re: Young And Soon To Be Divorced*



06Daddio08 said:


> Do not offer a thing and don't explain a thing. The tears will turn to anger once you don't play ball.
> 
> If she really wants to ask something, she will ask.


Going to add to this.

Even if she tries to talk to you, you owe her nothing at this stage of the game. If you decide to talk (everyone does at some point), it's best to give short answers of yes or no. When she asks why you won't bend over backwards for her, all you should say is "I'm not okay with that".

No more, no less. A common mistake, is the idea that this is "your chance" to say something or do something. It's not. There will be plenty more down the road.

Trick is to know when to engage and when to not bother. The best way to figure this out is by turning the focus on you and working on yourself.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

^ I am trying not to engage or do anything to even start a conversation. The less communication at this time the better in my mind.

I do however get agitated and angry when I think about the current situation with her and her father here picking up her things.

This house is essentially mine. Over the past 18 months I have paid every mortgage payment, every bill, cleaned the yard, fixed the issues and on top of that still paid for the rest of my wife's school, belongings etc. She has literally done nothing, she's been a kept woman.

And yet - here I am, sitting in my office trying to work done and dreading the moment when my laptop battery dies and I need to go get my cord from downstairs. Isn't that just wrong? I should be the one walking around like I own the place, because I do...


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Then behave like it but don't do it to get a reaction. If you behave in ways to get reactions, the only person to blame is yourself.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

BrokenM said:


> ^ I am trying not to engage or do anything to even start a conversation. The less communication at this time the better in my mind.
> 
> I do however get agitated and angry when I think about the current situation with her and her father here picking up her things.
> 
> ...


Then do it.

If they speak or attempt to agitate you, respond with, "I don't like where this conversation is headed"


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Broken.................... these guys.....listen to them......you are in the best hands possible......and there is no co-pay (i think.... j/k)


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Thanks guys.

I do agree - if I do anything to get a reaction then it is 100% my own fault and I should honestly get kicked in the shins.

I have no interest in a fight or reaction. I just want it to be civil and have them move on.

Unlike many - I really get no joy in the fight. I know at times it's hard not to get your own back when someone has hurt you but I try to look at it critically and understand what benefit that action would actually have. 99% of the time any action to get a negative reaction has absolutely no use, especially in a time when things are going poorly.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

If you are not ready to engage with her-don't

if you are, use what Conrad said

set your boundaries


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

On topic but off topic.

Any good ideas on where/how to sell off diamond rings? I don't really want to pawn them as I'm sure they will give me nothing close to what the rings are worth.

my ring - 18k white gold. Cost $1200ish, no idea what it's worth now

her rings.
.67 carat diamond, SI1 (i think, does that sound right?), no yellow for colour. platinum tiffany band. I think I spent around $4,000
2 - platinum bands with diamonds that encircle the solitaire, I think they were $800 each.

Would nice to try and get what I paid for them all back if I can find it.


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## zappy882000. (May 23, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> She wants a reaction and for you to save her
> 
> With no children, you may get a bit of insight from my thread(s)
> 
> ...


Hi Chuck - Were you married for 15 years? I thought I read some where in your thread that you were 29 ?


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## zappy882000. (May 23, 2013)

FormerSelf said:


> Yeah...this is a power play on her part...she has loved having all the power in your marriage...and you have spent it attending to her and her bottomless well of need...like throwing gold down a black hole. Be happy that you are reversing this trend right now. Do not let guilt (over NOTHING you should be guilty for) make you weak. I know you are a nice guy and that you loved this girl...and you would hate to see her struggle, but she is an unhappy person overall...YOU will never make her happy...a physical impossibility unless she chooses one day to get her stuff together. Nothing will be good enough for her...and the good feelings from all this stuff you arranged will just die out quicker and quicker. She has no respect for you and thinks anything you give her, she deserved anyway.


Amzing Advise and Amazing Response.

Couldn't be more true


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## zappy882000. (May 23, 2013)

BrokenM said:


> ^ I am trying not to engage or do anything to even start a conversation. The less communication at this time the better in my mind.
> 
> I do however get agitated and angry when I think about the current situation with her and her father here picking up her things.
> 
> ...


This is too funny, this is like a Lion who is too scared of impalas in a jungle :scratchhead:


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## zappy882000. (May 23, 2013)

BrokenM said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I do agree - if I do anything to get a reaction then it is 100% my own fault and I should honestly get kicked in the shins.
> 
> ...


This is very sage thinking that will get you far in personal and carrer growth.

Very well said brother 

Zappy


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

So, had a very long and sad discussion with my wife tonight. I have not given in but I can see how unbelievably hard it is not to.

She has gone from a confident defiant woman who wants to tell me where to go and how horrible I am to a terrified girl who has no idea what to do. It's heartbreaking to sit there and see this happen. The tears, sadness and utter broken will.

I won't cave, but now I feel worse than ever. My wife has literally no money, her visas are expired and if we separate everything she has worked for goes down the drain. If I hated her this would be much easier - but I do still love her. I also know that we will never work out or be happy as a couple again but that doesn't preclude me from feeling sadness and responsibility for all of this.

Ugh, this is going to be a crappy night.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Give defiant people what they want.

This is a test.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Still getting what she wanted last week. She is moving out tomorrow into a furnished condo - which of course is on my dime as she doesn't work and I pay for everything, but I guess that's just part of the process as well.

Her father left today which was good, I had my first long talk with him which was not fun. He really didn't think it was as bad as it is and was trying to get me to go in and patch things up. The look on his face when I said no and that there is no way for us to continue was brutal - never seen a 55 yr old man start to quiver and almost break down like that.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Why in the world are you paying her to leave you?


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Well, I control all of the money as she has absolutely $0. In our marriage I worked and she was in school full time. Neither of us have any family or support where we currently live - hers are in the UK mine are on the other side of the country.

I figured I have two options.

1 - I'm on the hook for spousal support anyways once I sign papers so I was not too concerned with getting her into a condo.

2 - She stays in the house with me and makes my life a living hell.

We live about 30 minutes from town and she doesn't own a car. She really has not done a thing for the last 2 years, I take care of just about everything here. As I look back on it I've been more of a parent to her these last 2 years than her family has been for her entire life.

If you have another suggestion I'm all ears. That said, I can not with any kind of good conscious throw her out on the street with no money and the clothes on her back. Her family has no money either to help out. 

My kindness and generosity may change come Tuesday after I speak with my lawyer, but for now it's all I really can think of to do.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

How old are you?

Have you spoken to a lawyer?

If you are married less than 5 years, spousal support is ZERO.

Wake up.

Quit paying her to leave you.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Lawyer is on Tuesday. Married for 2 years. I spoke with the lawyer in December when I almost left last time and was told I could be on the hook for support for 2 years - basically the same amount of time that I've been married.

I can say that after this first month I won't be spending any more unless I'm ordered to by my lawyer or the courts in general. The $1,500 this month will cost me I'm calling an investment into my sanity. If she were to live here for an entire month with this going on I would end up spending that on hotel rooms for myself within 2 weeks.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

zappy882000. said:


> Hi Chuck - Were you married for 15 years? I thought I read some where in your thread that you were 29 ?



I wished! Nahhhh I was a Led Zeppelin IV baby.... I just crossed 40 a few seasons ago. If I were 29, I'd have gotten hitched at 14 BUT.........this is TN!


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Married for 2 years .. she isn't working and you are paying for her condo?

I wish you could hear the sound I just made. That's me digesting my own vomit.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Broken I am not up to date on non-US spousal support breakdowns

here, it was for SAHMs with four children and little / no job skills

about fifty years ago... you have no kids, married less than some 

Ozzy Osbourne parties. 

She is an entitled princess and will live off your "titty" as long as possible

she does not want to return home, daddy still thinks she hung the moon

IMO, she wants to go to university to find herself, and POSOMs,

while her dear H works his arse off and foots the bill

Broken, you said earlier, she just wants to walk away

is there something readers are not privy to?


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

something not privy to such as?

I've outlined my couple of mistakes in the relationship and that's about it. There's more from her end but I figured I'd need to write a book and charge $10/print if I was going to go that far.

Aside from what's noted my soon to be ex hates that I make all the money and don't spend all of it on her. I am in the process of building a sports car for myself. With the money I work 60 hours a week and invest every dime I have to make - but I won't buy her a $25,000 diamond in the middle of the year mid way between our 1st and 2nd anniversary. 

That's the basics I think.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

06Daddio08 said:


> Married for 2 years .. she isn't working and you are paying for her condo?
> 
> I wish you could hear the sound I just made. That's me digesting my own vomit.


I will never have to eat again due to the extent of the vomit ingestion I'm working on right now in line with the scotch consumption I've successfully completed.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

BrokenM said:


> something not privy to such as?
> 
> I've outlined my couple of mistakes in the relationship and that's about it. There's more from her end but I figured I'd need to write a book and charge $10/print if I was going to go that far.
> 
> ...


Then she should shut her trap and make her own money. Simple. She better be getting a job or be prepared to live on the street.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

sorry - and aside from me paying for a condo any other ideas on how to get her out of the house?

That's my main motivation, the fact that if I can spend $1,500 and have my house clear for a month and then not pay the next for her... It would force her out and she'd then have to move back to the UK most likely. 

If anyone has a better idea I'm all ears... But I can' deal with her in here indefinitely.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

06Daddio08 said:


> Then she should shut her trap and make her own money. Simple. She better be getting a job or be prepared to live on the street.


She can't legally work - she's here on a visa and it expired. We were working on residency when this all blew up... again, why I'm afraid it will come back on me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BrokenM said:


> She can't legally work - she's here on a visa and it expired. We were working on residency when this all blew up... again, why I'm afraid it will come back on me.


You will most likely have to pay interim spousal support until the divorce is final. Then according to you there is the 2 years (length of marriage).

Married people are required to support each other by law. So during the divorce process you two are still married.

If she cannot work because of her visa status there really is not anything she can do to support herself. Will she be exported?


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> You will most likely have to pay interim spousal support until the divorce is final. Then according to you there is the 2 years (length of marriage).
> 
> Married people are required to support each other by law. So during the divorce process you two are still married.
> 
> If she cannot work because of her visa status there really is not anything she can do to support herself. Will she be exported?


She could be. And at that point she would just remove herself due to pride. She would not stay here if it was to just sit and collect money. While she does have that ability when we're married now that we're separating the pride is coming out and she will not accept any help unless it life altering.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BrokenM said:


> She could be. And at that point she would just remove herself due to pride. She would not stay here if it was to just sit and collect money. While she does have that ability when we're married now that we're separating the pride is coming out and she will not accept any help unless it life altering.


She's kind of in a tough spot in that she cannot support herself. So she might find that the pride has to be put aside so that she does not end up in the street.

Being unable to buy food or put a roof over one's head is live altering.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> She's kind of in a tough spot in that she cannot support herself. So she might find that the pride has to be put aside so that she does not end up in the street.
> 
> Being unable to buy food or put a roof over one's head is live altering.


agree completely.and that exact situation is why I still feel some kind of responsibility in our situation. I can't say she'd be better off if we hadn't married, because she wouldnt be, but at least she'd be in a consistent spot and wouldn't have the turmoil.

I know I shouldn't be concerned about stuff like that, but it's the way my brain works.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BrokenM said:


> agree completely.and that exact situation is why I still feel some kind of responsibility in our situation. I can't say she'd be better off if we hadn't married, because she wouldnt be, but at least she'd be in a consistent spot and wouldn't have the turmoil.
> 
> I know I shouldn't be concerned about stuff like that, but it's the way my brain works.


Why do you think that you should not be concerned about stuff like throwing your wife out on the street? Sure she's got problems. I know this is hard because she has been difficult to deal with. But you brought her to a country where she cannot even support herself.

She sounds very depressed and in over her head with the move. Have you and she gone to any counseling about your marriage problems and her personal issues?

I'm struggling with something similar with an ex who cannot support himself. It's a problem.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

I've suggested counselling for 18 months now to which she has denied at every turn. She will not spend the time on it, has no interest in it, says all councillors are a joke as they don't have a PHD so they can't know what they're talking about.

I didn't bring her into the country. She was here for 2 years studying in university prior to meeting me. 6 months after we started dating she moved in with me and then we grew our life together.

Prior to living in Canada she lived in Thailand for a year by herself and taught there.

She's no stranger to surviving on her own and being self sufficient. 



EleGirl said:


> Why do you think that you should not be concerned about stuff like throwing your wife out on the street? Sure she's got problems. I know this is hard because she has been difficult to deal with. But you brought her to a country where she cannot even support herself.
> 
> She sounds very depressed and in over her head with the move. Have you and she gone to any counseling about your marriage problems and her personal issues?
> 
> I'm struggling with something similar with an ex who cannot support himself. It's a problem.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

BrokenM said:


> She would not stay here if it was to just sit and collect money.


How sure are you about above statement?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Ah, I thought that you said she came after you did to join you. 

Well in Thailand she could legally work apparently.

She cannot legally work in Canada.

I guess it would be best if she move out of country. Surely her education credits would transfer.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Some would transfer, but not most of them. She'd be back to 1/2 way through her honours degree instead of 1 semester away from finishing.

It's a very odd situation.

She should be able to work here but she stopped putting effort in on the visa front and her residency. She became so careless about it that I had to forge her signature and send in an authorization for agent form so that I could call and follow up on the process because she refused to.

The fact that she can not legally work or study at this time is no one's fault but hers.

I went as far as to fill out the required forms and sign them on her behalf a few months ago but would not send them in until she reviewed them - she refused to review them, said it was a waste of money and that was that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BrokenM said:


> Some would transfer, but not most of them. She'd be back to 1/2 way through her honours degree instead of 1 semester away from finishing.
> 
> It's a very odd situation.
> 
> ...


Well there is nothing quite like reality to get someone to wake up and do what needs to be done.

Unfortunately you will most likely be supporting her for a while longer.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Ele brings up a good point about her being possibly deported if she cannot work here. All answers that should be given to you via a lawyer. After rereading a few posts, I can see how it would place you in a tough spot emotionally and it's understandable. So it would be best to find out what your legal obligations are and then go only by those, which is a good starting point to detach emotionally.

Knowing what you are and are not legally obligated to do.


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## Camelia (May 2, 2013)

BrokenM, I have been thinking about your situation. Go ahead and help her get started on her own because you did marry her because you love her, and you may come to regret that you sank to her level. I personally think its always best to be the better person. As far as her visa and school, let that be her problem. It seems to me that given what we as a nation found out after recent horrifying events is that our government is barely keeping track of the visas anyway. (not exactly a positive thought, I know) And let her figure out how to pay for it. She obviously has problems. She may need some psychological screenings, but until she realizes that her behavior is screwing up her life, there is nothing you can do to help her. Enabling her will only hurt you. Hang in there, and accept your feelings for what they are. Just don't let them rule your world.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Yes, unfortunately my lawyer was away holidays last week so I'm meeting with her on Tuesday.

Today's another hard one. She's cleaning out the closet and putting her stuff in garbage bags to be thrown out. Lots of crying and sobbing as it all goes through. I'm sitting on the couch and feel like I should be doing something but don't really want to intervene. It's progress towards her moving out and I'm afraid if I try to help it'll end up putting a stop on the progress and it'll be another night of no sleeping in the spare bedroom and her just laying in bed.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> How sure are you about above statement?


Very.

Her entire family has a huge problem with pride. I could throw money at her and it would just sit in the bank and never be touched.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

So this morning was yet again harder to deal with. She has now lost all anger towards me as she can see that I've given up on us.

She has broken down and literally begged me to try and make it work. That she will change, will try counselling finally. Basically everything I've asked for over the past 2 years she is now willing to do. She was fighting her hardest to try and get us to stay together. She's absolutely terrified. I stuck with myself and said no, that we are not going to work, it was the hardest conversation of my life.

She's now packed and waiting for a cab. I took the dogs for a walk to clear my head and she booked herself a hotel and is going to figure it out from there. She isn't bringing her phone as I pay for it so she doesn't want to be a burden on me. I have no idea where she is going after tonight.

What do I do if she disappears and doesn't return emails? 

Today I feel weak, weaker than I've felt. I feel like I should be trying to save this one last time. But I'm also angry that while I fought for 2 years she did not, and now that I've ended it she sees that she really does want to be a part of my life, and now it matters


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

She only wants you because she can't have you.

If you cave today nothing will change.

Let her go....it's what she's wanted for 2 years.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

I haven't caved yet, but now worry is starting to set in. Not worry about our marriage and if this is the right decision - but worry for my wife.

She is not taking her phone, only a computer. She has very little money and 2 suit cases. She's now refusing to let me help as she just wants to run away. She can't afford a flight anywhere, she has no way to contact anyone. I'm worried she's going to wind up somewhere rotten and not have anyone to help her.

She has almost no friends here as she's a bit of a loner and just focusses on school and all her family is in the UK.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

These are not your problems.

She's a grown woman.

Let her figure it out.

Anything else is codependent behavior on your part.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I hope you stick to your guns

her family will come get her if she is in bad shape

see, in life, people think they know what they want

until it is served, then they do not like it


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Trying to stick to my guns. She is moving out Monday now to a condo in town. I think she's been able to secure some money from family to pay for it. 

The guilt trip from her is getting pretty heavy. Comments about how every other fight when I was fighting for us she gave in and came back and now this one time when she wants to fight I've already checked out and it isn't fair.

I look at it differently - like there were plenty of occasions for her to fight and put in her effort over the last 2 years but now it's too late. I've already given up. But I can't tell her this when we're talking as whenever I get close to bringing that up she is in tears and sad that her dogs are going to be gone, and that she has to move out. Which then drives me into showing emotions I'm trying so hard to keep in check.

She doesn't have a good concept of money, and I think that is where some or most of our issues have stemmed from. In her mind since I'm staying in the house I am coming out ahead. I would gladly leave the house and move to a condo - if that meant she would pay the $4,000/month it costs for our mortgage and household bills. But again, if I bring that up with her she'll get distraught and it won't do any good. If anything it'll just end up with her saying that I need to leave the house and she'll stay here. Which could never work as she doesn't drive and we live 30 minutes from town. She couldn't even get groceries if she needed them.

Due to this - I feel there's no way I should leave the house. But, I can't kick her out either, which is now becoming a concern for me. I'm really worried that as these days drag on she's going to get more and more determined to stick together and refuse to move out. We're both on title and the mortgage so I have no legal ability to remove her from the house.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> see, in life, people think they know what they want
> 
> until it is served, then they do not like it


That is exactly what is happening here. I will say that for the first time ever in our relationship she is actually admitting that it is her fault that I feel this way and she pushed us to this point. That alone is a huge step for her, but I don't think there is anyway that it would help us in our relationship if it were to ever move forward again. it's that feeling that is helping stay on track with this.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

What was her childhood like?


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Conrad said:


> What was her childhood like?


It was horrible to be honest - and so was some of her adult life. Which is where a lot of her shortfalls have come from. She however won't address them with counselling or therapy - which I've suggested before.

As a child her parents split up and her mother treated her more like a friend and sounding board than a child. Her mother told her about the affairs she had, introduced her to men, would leave her alone in their flat in London for weekends at a time when she was 12 years old. Her mother ruined her father's confidence and her trust in relationships to a degree.

Her boyfriend prior to me was abusive. He broke her arm and collar bone. When he found out that we were dating he tracked her down outside a pub at 2am in a parking lot and smashed her head into the car and attempted to rape her. 

This is why I found the strength to deal with our problems for 2 years like I did. Always hoping that as we stayed together she would get stronger and the insecurities would fall away - but they haven't. In fact, many of them are getting stronger.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Sounds like she's a sexual abuse victim.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

As an adult - yes. As a child - no. As a child there was a lot of verbal abuse, but I don't believe anything physical or sexual. At least not that I'm aware of.

She's actually taken a step to see a counsellor next week which is a first. This on her own time as well, not with me forcing her to do it. I'm still moving away from us and looking to separate, but perhaps this will be the catalyst that pushes her to confront those issues and put them behind her.

The assault 3 years ago is also what triggered her very strong "feminist" views as she calls them. She lost faith in men in general after that.


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## Camelia (May 2, 2013)

Please don't abandon her. I am not saying that you should not set your boundaries, you absolutely should. But, think of her as a wounded animal. They don't know that you are trying to help them, so they try to bite you. Let her go to counseling. Praise her for it. This is something she needs for herself, not for you as a couple. I think Conrad is on the money with the sexual abuse thing. Just because she never told you doesn't mean it didn't happen. Let her move into her condo. Both of you take some time to let the anger subside. Let her take the time to examine what her priorities in life are. 

For too many reasons to list here, I have been told by several professionals that the fact that I had a sixteen year marriage and two great children that I totally committed to showed a lot of strength and character in spite of ...... The fact that I stayed and fought ended up meaning nothing to my husband when the chips were down. He moved out. His reasons: I stopped caring about how efficiently I ran the household. I felt/feel abandoned. Betrayed. 

You don't have to stay married to her, just make sure she is moving toward a healing place. And while you're at it, heal yourself too. Don't forget about the boundaries. Very important.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

I completely agree. She's terrified that I'm going to abandon her and she'll be left to her own. We really are best friends as well so this is unbelievably hard for me as well.

She's meeting with her counsellor next week and I'm going to go to individual counselling as well. I can see that our marriage doesn't work and I'm hoping that once she talks to a counsellor that they can help her see that this is for the best as well. 




Camelia said:


> Please don't abandon her. I am not saying that you should not set your boundaries, you absolutely should. But, think of her as a wounded animal. They don't know that you are trying to help them, so they try to bite you. Let her go to counseling. Praise her for it. This is something she needs for herself, not for you as a couple. I think Conrad is on the money with the sexual abuse thing. Just because she never told you doesn't mean it didn't happen. Let her move into her condo. Both of you take some time to let the anger subside. Let her take the time to examine what her priorities in life are.
> 
> For too many reasons to list here, I have been told by several professionals that the fact that I had a sixteen year marriage and two great children that I totally committed to showed a lot of strength and character in spite of ...... The fact that I stayed and fought ended up meaning nothing to my husband when the chips were down. He moved out. His reasons: I stopped caring about how efficiently I ran the household. I felt/feel abandoned. Betrayed.
> 
> You don't have to stay married to her, just make sure she is moving toward a healing place. And while you're at it, heal yourself too. Don't forget about the boundaries. Very important.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I had a screwed up childhood and it took me hitting rock bottom before I sought help.

Btw it isn't abandonment if she's the one who has wanted to leave for 2 years.

Said it before and I'll say it again. 

If you cave before she gets help she WILL do this again.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> I had a screwed up childhood and it took me hitting rock bottom before I sought help.
> 
> Btw it isn't abandonment if she's the one who has wanted to leave for 2 years.
> 
> ...


I know. That's why I'm keeping my distance in the house and trying not to engage. It feels like she's starting to get very depressed. 

If she doesn't leave tomorrow I'm seriously considering flying back to BC where my family and business are. I can spend a few weeks there healing, seeing old friends and getting work done while she has time here with the dogs etc. But yet again, I'm the one paying to leave and do whatever I need to do. She's being given some money by her family on Monday to pay for her rental next week so that does help if she can actually get the strength to move out.

The new thing is that she wants both of our dogs. She's trying to hold onto everything she can right now. I don't mind leaving her the mutts but I don't know if she has the strength to stay in Canada. Afraid that she's going call me in 9 months and say I need to fly them out to BC where I'm going to be living. I was considering re-homing them so that I could start fresh out west so I was already trying to separate myself from them.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

BrokenM said:


> I completely agree. She's terrified that I'm going to abandon her and she'll be left to her own. We really are best friends as well so this is unbelievably hard for me as well.
> 
> She's meeting with her counsellor next week and I'm going to go to individual counselling as well. I can see that our marriage doesn't work and I'm hoping that once she talks to a counsellor that they can help her see that this is for the best as well.


She pushed you away for 2 full years... now you're going.

She didn't mean it.

Yeah, right.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

I know Conrad -

The fact that I tried to fight for 2 years with no real response is the only reason I've been able to stick to my guns about separating.

What I could really use are some suggestions on how to get her to leave the house if she doesn't move out tomorrow. I have a really hard time drawing the line and being blunt or hurtful to her. I'm used to fighting with her when she 100% believes she is right and I'm in the wrong. In this situation with all the crying and apologizing I lose my footing, it's unknown territory.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

BrokenM said:


> I know Conrad -
> 
> The fact that I tried to fight for 2 years with no real response is the only reason I've been able to stick to my guns about separating.
> 
> What I could really use are some suggestions on how to get her to leave the house if she doesn't move out tomorrow. I have a really hard time drawing the line and being blunt or hurtful to her. I'm used to fighting with her when she 100% believes she is right and I'm in the wrong. In this situation with all the crying and apologizing I lose my footing, it's unknown territory.


Ask for her key.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

She doesn't have a key. Funny as it sounds - we have 2 keys... 1 is in the lock box for the realtor and the other is on my key ring.

She has no need for a key, she doesn't drive and we live outside of town so the only time she leaves the house is with me, then I either hang around or come back to pick her up whenever she's done what she's doing.

Once she's out of the house she has no way of getting back in unless I let her. but again, I don't want it to come to that. Then it feels like I'm playing dirty, locking her out of the house etc.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

BrokenM said:


> She doesn't have a key. Funny as it sounds - we have 2 keys... 1 is in the lock box for the realtor and the other is on my key ring.
> 
> She has no need for a key, she doesn't drive and we live outside of town so the only time she leaves the house is with me, then I either hang around or come back to pick her up whenever she's done what she's doing.
> 
> Once she's out of the house she has no way of getting back in unless I let her. but again, I don't want it to come to that. Then it feels like I'm playing dirty, locking her out of the house etc.


On her departure day, ask if she has everything she needs and drive her over there.

Drop her off.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

BrokenM said:


> I was a victim of verbal and emotional abuse.


Broken, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., temper tantrums, verbal abuse, always being "The Victim," rapid flips between loving you and hating you, blame-shifting, black-white thinking, and controlling behavior -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

Of course, you cannot determine whether your STBXW's BPD traits are so strong as to meet 100% of the criteria for having full-blown BPD. Only a professional can do that. Yet, even when the traits fall well below that diagnostic threshold, they can make your life miserable and undermine a marriage. Moreover, there is a world of difference between _making a diagnosis_ and simply _spotting the warning signs_. 

Before you graduated high school, Broken, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. You could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. 

Similarly, you will be able to spot strong BPD traits when they occur if you take time to learn what red flags to look for. There is nothing subtle about traits such as temper tantrums, verbal abuse, and always being "The Victim."


> She's a fairly fragile woman who explodes with anger to mask the frailty


If she has strong BPD traits, she has a very fragile sense of who she is. She also would be filled with enormous anger and shame that she's been carrying inside since early childhood. The result is that you don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, all you have to do is say or do some minor thing that TRIGGERS the anger that is always there. This is why BPDers can explode into a rage or temper tantrum within ten seconds.


> [Her childhood] was horrible to be honest.


If she has strong BPD traits, that is to be expected. In a recent study of 35,000 American adults, 70% of the BPDers reported that they had been abused or abandoned in childhood. 

The result is that a BPDer's emotional development typically is frozen at about age 3 or 4. This means that the BPDer never learned the more mature ego defenses such as how to regulate her own emotions, how to do self soothing to calm herself down, or how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as reality.


> She has made more comments than i can count about how much she hates the responsibility of marriage.


If your STBXW is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), you do not have a husband/wife relationship. Instead, you have a parent/child relationship. It can be hard to recognize that a woman has the emotional development of a four year old when she has the intelligence, knowledge, cunning, and body strength of a full grown adult.


> The response to those conversations is that all men are f'ing pigs and we need to be sterilized.


This black-white thinking -- wherein everyone is categorized as "all good" or "all bad" -- is one of the hallmarks of having strong BPD traits. Like temper tantrums and projection, B-W thinking is one of the primitive ego defenses that we all use in childhood. 

Moreover, we all continue using it throughout adulthood whenever we experience very intense feelings. This is why we "normal" folks refrain from making decisions and keep our mouths shut whenever we are extremely angry or infatuated. We know that our judgment goes out the window whenever we experience intense feelings.

BPDers, however, tend to do B-W thinking most of the time. One reason for it is that, because a BPDer has a fragile sense of self, she cannot tolerate having strong mixed feelings or experiencing ambiguities or uncertainties. The result is that, with interpersonal relationships, she will shoehorn everyone into a black box ("against me") or a white box ("with me"). And, in just ten seconds, she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other based solely on a trivial comment or action.


> We moved ...away from all of my friends and family (whom she never liked or had any interest in getting to know).


If she is a BPDer, she has a great fear of abandonment. The result is that a BPDer's first agenda during the marriage is to isolate you away from all of your friends and family members. This makes it much easier for her to control all aspects of your private life (to prevent abandonment).


> Almost like clock work - every 4 months a fight based off of those messages comes back up.... within 4 or so months another blow up occurs, and worse than the last.


Another hallmark of BPDer relationships is the push-you-away and pull-you-back cycle. It is believed to be caused by the BPDer's two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. I explain how that process is believed to work at the link I provide below.

The result is that BPDer relationships typically are characterized by numerous breakups before the final separation. A poll at BPDfamily, for example, found that 60% of the couples broke up and reconciled at least 3 times before finally separating. About a third of them did it at least six times before separating. And a fourth did it ten or more times.


> Against all advice from family, friends and my lawyer I went home, we reconciled.


This is predictable if your STBXW is a BPDer. It is very VERY difficult to resist the love bombing occurring while she is splitting you white. The suction is so great that, at the BPD websites devoted to the abused partners, it is called "hoovering" -- being named after the popular vacuum cleaner.


> I chose to pull her aside and let him pass as it wasn't worth our effort. Due to this I do not support her and am in turn a worthless human being.


Again, this is classic black-white thinking. If she is a BPDer, she does not intellectually challenge her intense feelings. They therefore constitute her "reality." Hence, "feelings" constitute "facts." The result is that a BPDer can flip -- in just ten seconds -- from adoring you to devaluing (even hating) you. This Jekyll-Hyde behavior is another hallmark of having strong BPD traits.


> We are on what is supposed to be a vacation of our lifetime in France....The shove from the security guard then starts a cascade of fighting from her.


With a BPDer, the very WORST fights will usually occur immediately after the very BEST of times. The reason is that, having a fragile self image, the BPDer cannot tolerate intimacy or closeness very long. She will feel like you are suffocating her. She also may get a very frightening feeling that she is disappearing into thin air, being absorbed into your strong personality. This feeling of disappearing and being controlled and dominated is called "engulfment."

The result is that a BPDer's subconscious will protect her from the engulfment by projecting bad thoughts and feelings onto you. In that way, the BPDer subconsciously creates a fight -- over absolutely nothing at all -- to push you away and give her breathing space. This is why your worst fights likely occurred immediately after an intimate evening or great weekend -- or right in the middle of a great vacation. And this is why, three days later, both of you had trouble remembering what the fight had been about.


> I'm now sleeping alone in a 5 star hotel in Nice.


That's exactly what happened to me on two expensive vacations. I quickly learned that it was a waste of money to take my BPDer exW on expensive vacations because I would end up spending $500/day to hear a temper tantrum -- which inevitably would start by the third day.


> Her boyfriend prior to me was abusive. He broke her arm and collar bone.


Because BPDers need lots of drama to "validate" their false self image of being "The Victim," they are often found in relationships with other BPDers or narcissists. They also are attracted to excessive caregivers like you and me.


> If the roles were reversed I'd actually be in jail.


If your STBXW is a BPDer and you stay with her, you likely will end up in jail. As I said, BPDers are convinced they are eternal victims. So it is common for them to have their spouses arrested, giving the BPDer the equivalent of a Harvard PhD in victimhood. At the end of my 15 year marriage, my exW had me thrown into jail for 3 days on the bogus charge of "brutalizing" her.


> I don't know what I am looking for by posting my experience here, but perhaps some honest conversation and support would be my goal.


Broken, I agree with the advice that has already been provided by other TAM members. Yet, if you are still wanting a sense of "closure" or are having trouble with guilt, I would suggest you read more about BPD traits to see if they sound very familiar. 

I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a spectrum disorder, which means we all have it to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your STBXW has BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits such traits at a strong level. Not having met her, I certainly don't know the answer to that question. I nonetheless am confident that you learn to spot the red flags if you take a little time to read about them. 

An easy place to start reading -- if you are interested -- is my description of these traits in my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Broken.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BrokenM said:


> She doesn't have a key. Funny as it sounds - we have 2 keys... 1 is in the lock box for the realtor and the other is on my key ring.
> 
> She has no need for a key, she doesn't drive and we live outside of town so the only time she leaves the house is with me, then I either hang around or come back to pick her up whenever she's done what she's doing.
> 
> Once she's out of the house she has no way of getting back in unless I let her. but again, I don't want it to come to that. Then it feels like I'm playing dirty, locking her out of the house etc.


Since the home you are in is her legal residence, she can always get a lock smith to let her in and make a key for her.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

^Uptown

Thank you very much. That read was definitely something I was looking for. Many, if not all, of your points resonated with me.

It's interesting that you note the parent/child relationship. I have felt this way for almost our entire marriage. I was having a long conversation with my mother the other night and even she brought it up - and I have only seen my parents twice in the last 18 months. Even though we've only seen each other 2 times she was still able to spot the parent/child relationship with ease.

Her mother has some serious problems, and i see them coming out in my wife as well. Her and her mother do not speak at all anymore, it's been about 18 months since she cut all ties with her. Mom seems to exhibit these exact same traits and had her father sucked in for almost 16 years. She also told my wife not to marry me and a whole slew of other comments regarding my family etc. Would send my wife emails about how she is a horrible child and that her life is worth nothing, it was pretty rough.

It's amazing how an upbringing and childhood really affect someone. I was brought up in a loving house hold. My parents never fought in front of us kids, were affectionate, valued family and supported us. I've always considered myself to be fairly level headed and I really attribute that to growing up in a mostly drama free house hold.

My wife hates it, that I can look at something objectively and not fight about it. It infuriates her when she yells at me and I say nothing and walk away. Which is not the response that I want, I just want her to look at it objectively and try to understand that blowing up does not benefit either of us at all. But, in the end, that is all for not as we're separating and these fights will in turn no longer rule my life.

I just hope I can meet someone who's level headed and enjoys life in the future. No more walking on egg shells or trying to make her happy with gifts and superficial BS. Someone who would be happy with a nice home cooked dinner, a drive down the coast, a little vacation here and there. Just a normal marriage like what I grew up with would be perfect.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Since the home you are in is her legal residence, she can always get a lock smith to let her in and make a key for her.


She can, but she won't. Her pride once again will get her into trouble.

She asked me to set up a time this week with the bank and lawyer so that I can take her off of the mortgage and off of the title of the home. She wants nothing to do with it if we separate.

That opinion may change, but it's moot anyways as we're selling the house and within a few months neither of us will be living here.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Uptown said:


> An easy place to start reading -- if you are interested -- is my description of these traits in my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Broken.


Thanks, 

I'd definitely like to chat more about your experience and ways to deal with mine. 

In all honesty - I am the only person I know who has or is going through a divorce. With being shut off from family and friends it makes it even harder to put everything into context. Add to that the fact that my wife is upstairs crying all day and I'm in an even worse spot.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If she does not drive and you life out away from things, how was she supposed to find a job, friends, etc?


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

We live in a small town outside of the big town. It was actually her decision to choose this house, she wanted the big country house so I obliged.

I work from home and can work almost any hour schedule I choose. She was in school from 8am - 7pm many days and would spend her entire day downtown with other students. If she wanted to go into town for anything I would drop the work I was doing and drive her in. I'd then either work from a coffee shop or drive home and then back again.

She used to work at a spa down the road from us but decided to quit that after a few months as she didn't like the internal politics of working with women exclusively.

She does have a job in town on Saturdays during school where I get up at 6am and drive her in then come back at 5pm to pick her up. Then we'd usually go out for a dinner and beer and end up in an argument on the way home.




EleGirl said:


> If she does not drive and you life out away from things, how was she supposed to find a job, friends, etc?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

In other words, her schedule was more important than yours.

She got the message - trust me.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Conrad said:


> In other words, her schedule was more important than yours.
> 
> She got the message - trust me.


Her schedule was definitely more important than mine. Everything to do with her life was more important.

It went so far that if I spent 4 hours driving her around and hanging out at university and I wanted to work 4 hours later to catch up I'd get into a fight with because I worked too much.

If I worked outside of 8am - 4pm there would usually be a fight. Even if 1/2 that time was spent driving her around, going shopping, going for a walk etc. If I didn't stop by 4pm and start making dinner she'd usually get frustrated that there's nothing to eat. This would result in her having a box of crackers for dinner and not talking to me until the next day.

I made my work schedule around cooking dinner, getting her to school and trying to only work during the day.

I know that as I type this it wasn't healthy at all - but I still sit here and almost long for it to be what it was 2 weeks ago. At least then I wouldn't have a crying wife upstairs sobbing in my bed while I try to sleep in a small cramped bed in the spare bedroom with 2 dogs. It sucked, but at least it was a normal suck.

Thanks again for being a sounding board. No family/no friends out here makes it hard to make sense of this all.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Normal suck may be familiar but do you really want that for the rest of your life?

At least this new suck will end one way or another.

She will either leave for good or she will get help.

Stay the course.

Don't cave.....


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> Normal suck may be familiar but do you really want that for the rest of your life?
> 
> At least this new suck will end one way or another.
> 
> ...


You're very right Mavash - 

And honestly a lot of this strength I have is coming from this damn forum. My days now consist of sitting on the couch and posting on here while I read about cars and politics. If I was up to my own devices I'm pretty sure I would have caved days ago.

The more postings I see the stronger I feel.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

BrokenM said:


> Her schedule was definitely more important than mine. Everything to do with her life was more important.
> 
> It went so far that if I spent 4 hours driving her around and hanging out at university and I wanted to work 4 hours later to catch up I'd get into a fight with because I worked too much.
> 
> ...


You are in the company of a forum filled with enablers.

We all know about sacrificing to "keep the peace" and having anger be the result.

It's due to a loss of respect.

She hates herself.

So, if you're trying to please someone she hates so much, why wouldn't she hate you too? For having such bad judgement.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

It takes having contact with safe people to stay strong.

Why do you think support groups are so effective?

Almost impossible to do this alone.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

I know, 

She keeps trying to use me as her support, trying to talk to me about the situation and hoping to change my mind but it just makes her more sad. I keep asking her to just talk to her family, go back to the UK, talk to anyone but me for support but she won't. She's so closed off and private that she refuses to look to anyone for assistance. Which just makes it even worse for me as I am the first point of contact.

I wish she would just open up to someone else and let them help her. I want her to see that this is actually a good thing with us moving on. Argh, oh well.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

She doesn't want support she wants an enabler.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

You're right.

I guess a hard thing right now is that the words she's using are words she's never used before. This is the first time a sincere effort on the surface is being made to rectify our problems. I know it is only because I've finally said no, but it still plays with me and makes it ever so much harder.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Her words are simply to keep you in play.

She never in a million years thought you'd actually let her go.

Trust me on this.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

I am however doing something good for myself. I should probably make a point of bringing this up as well.

I'm very into the automotive scene and culture. My wife hates cars and doesn't understand how I get enjoyment from them. It's been the focus of many fights in the past.

In January I bought a sports car again. I had missed the fun associated with them for years. It's a 2008 Mitsubishi Evolution. All wheel drive, 2.0L turbo, lots of fun. I did little bits of work to it - but either this week or next I'm going to be driving it down to New Jersey to have a ton of work done to it.

New motor, new turbo, transmission parts, suspension work. When it's all done it will potentially be the single fastest Evo X MR on pump gas in the world. I've already sent deposits in for a few things so I'm definitely committed. I was planing on doing it when we were still together but was planning on cancelling it due to her reservations.

Now, I can't wait to road trip it down there and get the work started. I should be able to pick the car up in the middle of July. that will be the real start of my summer I think.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Think of all the free time and money you will have when you aren't enabling her anymore.

Yes I read the list of things you do vs what she does.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

BrokenM said:


> I was planing on doing it when we were still together but was planning on cancelling it due to her reservations.


Straight out of NMMNG.

Give up everything about you that's attractive - to please her.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> Think of all the free time and money you will have when you aren't enabling her anymore.
> 
> Yes I read the list of things you do vs what she does.


yah, that list was more than a little one sided. During our marriage I treated those tasks like things I just thought had to be done. Not until I spoke to other married couple did I start to realize how wrong it really was.

When every single wife looks at her husband and says "why don't you do any of that" when I tell them what I do and every husband says "shut up" I know I'm a little off base.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

BrokenM said:


> yah, that list was more than a little one sided. During our marriage I treated those tasks like things I just thought had to be done. Not until I spoke to other married couple did I start to realize how wrong it really was.
> 
> When every single wife looks at her husband and says "why don't you do any of that" when I tell them what I do and every husband says "shut up" I know I'm a little off base.


If it actually worked to help the relationship, you could feel a bit better about it.

Keep in mind, that sort of behavior will only stop once you start working on yourself.

Just getting rid of her won't solve it.

This is an internal problem of codependent behavior.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Yes it is. I'm hopefully going to be seeing a counsellor this week to try and work some of my own internal issues. 

I wasn't always this way... In fact, I was a very selfish person until I married my wife.

When I was single I lived a very outgoing, social life. Lots of dating, dining, sporting events. Had a huge group of friends. Was a great date and decent boyfriend, but definitely was not operating in the same way I am now.

I don't what it was about my marriage, but within this relationship is when I started to operate like I do today. I think it is because I knew very early on that this was going to be a rough ride. But, my family doesn't agree with divorce so I decided to do whatever I could to make her happy. Which just spiralled out of control.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Don't think codependent behavior isn't selfish.

You behave that way to GET SOMETHING from someone else.

It's very controlling.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Don't think codependent behavior isn't selfish.
> 
> You behave that way to GET SOMETHING from someone else.
> 
> It's very controlling.


True, I had never thought of it that way before.

What usually triggers codependent behaviour?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

BrokenM said:


> What usually triggers codependent behaviour?


Relationships you're afraid to lose.

You can be codependent with your own kids.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

BrokenM said:


> True, I had never thought of it that way before.
> 
> What usually triggers codependent behaviour?


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/44287-nice-expectations-ticket-emotional-hell.html


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Thank you for the link.

I'm sure 99% of men who are too "nice" probably say the exact same thing I'm about to say - I do a lot of work and nice things, but in my mind I was never looking for anything in return. Or perhaps a better way to phrase it is that I was never looking for anything tangible in return, or immediate in return.

Taking her to school, I did that as it was what we had always done. It became more and more reliant on me and adjusting my schedule though. Perhaps what I was looking for was a thank you - or for her to be comfortable working late if I put in the time with her. In that case, I guess you could say I was looking for something - but I had never EVER thought of it like that.

Cooking dinner - I love to cook and I'm happy to do it. But, you could say I was hoping that if I cook dinner and take care of the groceries I would hope she would do more around the house. This never really happened, but I guess it could be something that I was looking for in return but once again not something I ever really thought about.

That's what I find hard when trying to look back on my actions. I can't find a single moment where my thought was "if I do this, I want her to do this". It was always "I need to do this as this is what I do".


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You really mean you weren't trying to stay out of trouble?

What did you expect if you didn't perform?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Your views on marriage and relationships are flawed even if you expected nothing in return.

Successful relationships are about give AND take.

Unhealthy relationships are one sided and involve a user.

Yes I get you're a giver but what about your needs?

Did you forget about yours or did you think sacrifice is what makes a good husband?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> Your views on marriage and relationships are flawed even if you expected nothing in return.
> 
> Successful relationships are about give AND take.
> 
> ...


Yes.... a "good husband" sacrifices for his wife.

We all want to be "good", right?

Why do we want to be good?


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

We want to be good because it should elicit a positive response from the person we are spending our life with.

It's great to talk about this with people who have no vested interest in anything regarding my life. 

"A good husband sacrifices for his wife". this is a statement that really resonates for me. Again - old European family living in Canada - the husband never stops sacrificing. You can be a lying, cheating, ***** of a man, but as long as you sacrifice for your wife you are doing the right thing. It's a horrible mentality to have, but it is engrained in us for some reason.

I didn't forget any of my needs, I resented her because she didn't realize that mine needed to be filled. I pushed mine aside so that I could try and please her. Again, hoping that a sacrificial husband will net me the roses.

Last - I wasn't trying to stay out of trouble... There was no "if I didn't perform". We live 30 minutes from school and she doesn't have a car - so I'm the one who drives. I see it for what it is now - but at the time I just thought it as my husbandly duty.

That, along with paying for school, buying all the groceries, cleaning up after the dogs, paying all the bills etc.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Two discussion questions.

Where do you think resentment comes from?

Who is responsible for getting your needs met?


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Resentment - in my opinion - comes from jealousy. I was jealous that her needs were "being met" but mine were not. I then started to resent the situation because I was stuck attempting to make it work as it became routine.

I am responsible for making sure my needs are met. There is no one but me who can be held responsible for that. I have a very hard time with that though. I've put my needs behind me for so long just to make my wife happy.

Case in point - 

We moved from BC to Nova Scotia 18 months ago. We had been married 6 months. I wanted to build a house in BC, start a life there. I had a great job, she was in school and working, it was great. She saw an ad for a university in NS and instantly the plan was to move there - with or without me. She was great at these kinds of comments. I'm moving there, if you don't come that's your problem. 

So, me being me, I put my desire aside and forget about and try to get excited about her desire. In turn I take the lead and get us out here. Then, 12 months after we've moved in we visit BC and she says that she wants to move back... So, I put my business on hold here and structure a plan to move back to BC and keep the bulk of my sales in BC. 4 months later - she doesn't want to move back to BC, but now to Quebec.

I finally said no, I'm moving to BC and you must as well. We're married, we made a decision, we need to follow through with it. Her response was that her changed her mind and she's allowed to do that. I can move there and she'll move to Quebec, we do it long distance again.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Forgot to mention that I've been really trying to look forward to moving back to BC.

I've always wanted to live right downtown in a loft building. Exposed wood, heritage style loft. I've gotten in touch with an agent and am starting to really filter through the supply out there. It's great to look forward and try to envision what it's going to be when I'm there.

Right downtown, 1,000 sqft, heritage style loft. Walking distance to pubs, life, friends, a new life.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

If you don't fix these problems that are within you moving away and starting over will likely include another damsel in distress.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

I completely agree. I'm starting the counselling here but will be following up more as soon as I get to BC. I'm not interested in another relationship at this time or the foreseeable future. That said, I want to be prepared incase someone does come up.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

BrokenM said:


> In January I bought a sports car again.... either this week or next I'm going to be driving it down to New Jersey to have a ton of work done to it.


Broken, I strongly recommend that you find a safe place to park that car until you have time to drive it to NJ. If your STBXW does have strong BPD traits, she is emotionally unstable and therefore very unpredictable -- especially when her greatest fear (i.e., abandonment) is being realized. This means, if she is a BPDer, you really have NO IDEA what she is capable of doing over the next few months. As I said, my BPDer exW had me arrested and thrown into jail -- something I never would have imagined she was capable of doing.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Uptown said:


> Broken, I strongly recommend that you find a safe place to park that car until you have time to drive it to NJ. If your STBXW does have strong BPD traits, she is emotionally unstable and therefore very unpredictable -- especially when her greatest fear (i.e., abandonment) is being realized. This means, if she is a BPDer, you really have NO IDEA what she is capable of doing over the next few months. As I said, my BPDer exW had me arrested and thrown into jail -- something I never would have imagined she was capable of doing.


But, we would have.. you masher


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Thanks Uptown.

I'll be driving it down later this week I think. Once she's out of the house tomorrow (if it goes as planned) then there is no way for her to get her hands on it.



Uptown said:


> Broken, I strongly recommend that you find a safe place to park that car until you have time to drive it to NJ. If your STBXW does have strong BPD traits, she is emotionally unstable and therefore very unpredictable -- especially when her greatest fear (i.e., abandonment) is being realized. This means, if she is a BPDer, you really have NO IDEA what she is capable of doing over the next few months. As I said, my BPDer exW had me arrested and thrown into jail -- something I never would have imagined she was capable of doing.


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

More updates and more drama.

My wife was supposed to move out today... She now wants me to leave the house and move back to BC and take it off the market. this way she can stay here with our dogs and go to school. I of course will be on the hook for mortgage payments, bills and she's asked if I can somehow get her a car. 

She thinks that since I have my business I'm going to be fine and that I just want to leave her on the side of the road. I am meeting with my lawyer tomorrow to go over things, and it can not come soon enough.

I have no problem going back to BC and was actually planning on leaving the house prior to it selling anyways. My real estate agent can get it sold without me here. I wouldn't even mind leaving and having her stay here while it's on the market. I can spend time with my family and regroup, it'd be good for me.

What I am not ok with is taking it off the market and spending $3,000 - $4,000/month keeping the house running while my wife goes to school and plays with our dogs.

She wants it to be "fair" but this is far from it.

Me - move to parent's house like I'm 16 again, pay bills for house in NS.
Her - stay in 3,400 sqft custom home with an ocean view. keep the dogs. get a car. pay no bills. go to school.

I can swing the money side of it, but it just doesn't make any sense. I can not get her to leave the house which means that I'm going to have to leave if I want us to separate. 

Not sure what to do..


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

You say no. Unless you're okay with her getting all the financial benefits of a married while playing single life.


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## zappy882000. (May 23, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> You will most likely have to pay interim spousal support until the divorce is final. Then according to you there is the 2 years (length of marriage).
> 
> Married people are required to support each other by law. So during the divorce process you two are still married.
> 
> If she cannot work because of her visa status there really is not anything she can do to support herself. Will she be exported?


hi Elle - its Deported


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Do everything by the book with this woman. Whatever the lawyer tells you to do....do. Don't go out of your way to give her extra. She will be taking your kindness for weakness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zappy882000. (May 23, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> I hope you stick to your guns
> 
> her family will come get her if she is in bad shape
> 
> ...



So well said Chuck.....100% certified fact.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

she is getting a better deal being single, of course she wants it

like I said, this is far from over

she has friends who put bugs in her ear

now she wants it all at your dime

sure blows the "she wants to just walk away with her pride"

theory out of the water! but.....this is very common


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## zappy882000. (May 23, 2013)

BrokenM said:


> ^Uptown
> 
> Thank you very much. That read was definitely something I was looking for. Many, if not all, of your points resonated with me.
> 
> ...




I wanted the same kind of wife who would love me and would be more than happy to have a nice home cooked meal with me than going out and trying to find happiness outside.

Our thinking is so much in simpatico.

You remind me of Stay Strong ...I believe you both share the same writing power.


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## zappy882000. (May 23, 2013)

BrokenM said:


> She can, but she won't. Her pride once again will get her into trouble.
> 
> She asked me to set up a time this week with the bank and lawyer so that I can take her off of the mortgage and off of the title of the home. She wants nothing to do with it if we separate.
> 
> That opinion may change, but it's moot anyways as we're selling the house and within a few months neither of us will be living here.


I can only imagine how difficult and miserable is to sell the house you once bought with all the eagerness.

The kind of emotional investment you put in a house to make it home is behemoth and when you see it slipping away, it sure is gutwrenching.

Give it a shot to your marriage if you still love her BrokenM.


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## zappy882000. (May 23, 2013)

Uptown said:


> Broken, I strongly recommend that you find a safe place to park that car until you have time to drive it to NJ. If your STBXW does have strong BPD traits, she is emotionally unstable and therefore very unpredictable -- especially when her greatest fear (i.e., abandonment) is being realized. This means, if she is a BPDer, you really have NO IDEA what she is capable of doing over the next few months. As I said, my BPDer exW had me arrested and thrown into jail -- something I never would have imagined she was capable of doing.


I second that opinion, after looking at your post uptown I realize that my BPD wife would be 120% glad to put my ass in jail if she could


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

No no no no

Do not leave the house.

She's lost her mind.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> No no no no
> 
> Do not leave the house.
> 
> She's lost her mind.


Agree with this. STBX could potentially sabotage any sale you had. Get it under Contract and then leave.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

oh


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I have three threads you may now want to read

Zillard

GutPunch

ReGroup


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## BrokenM (May 28, 2013)

Thanks everyone. If only there was a constant set of emotions coming from her this would be at least somewhat palatable. As with most days, things have now changed again.

Her push this morning dissipated as the day went on. I don't have it in me to be extremely stern and to tell her to just leave. I know I should be stronger, but I am doing what I can. I've found that I am able to talk to her now and her crying is starting to subside. After about 4 hours of conversation today I do have her agreeing to leave and move to a condo in town. She's going to take one of our dogs, not both as she originally wanted.

I'm speaking with my lawyer tomorrow morning about a multitude of things, but I do know how the spousal support conversation will go as I already discussed it with her back in December. No matter what I do I am going to be responsible for getting her shelter. I am not legally on the hook for her school but there will definitely be spousal support. Due to this I don't have much issue finding her a condo prior to a final agreement being drawn up. Perhaps it's naive but if I'm going to be covering it anyways I'd rather her get out sooner than later.

One thing i have not mentioned yet is our monetary situation. While I do currently carry a good amount of debt due to my business (which is financed personally but we won't get into all that BS on here) I do also make a very healthy wage. If I go cold turkey on support and try my best to fight it there is the chance she could get wise and get her own lawyer, then I'm in trouble. She's going from a household income of $200,000 - $300,000 / year to living in a $1,400/month rental apartment. No matter how you cut that cookie it is still one sided in my direction.

I've also decided that I'm going to stay on as her sponsor for residency. I am committed for 3 years after she is awarded her landed status. If she ever defaults on a loan or has medical bills she can't pay for I will be the fall back. I am ok with this for a couple of reasons. Before we were together she was here on visas and was covered under her university medical. Once we got married we stopped applying for visas as together we decided that residency in Canada was a better solution for our needs. The key is "our needs". We made that choice together, I can not in good conscience back out of that decision now. It has no ramification for me if i cancel it, but it will quite literally throw her entire plan off track. I'm already coming out of this 500% better than she is, I can't drive her off the edge like that.

Once her residency is sorted she'll be able to work as well. Upon that time my support will hopefully not be required. I'll be writing a clause into the separation agreement that she needs to be actively looking for work to hopefully spur her to get a job sooner than later.

The day started out on a bad foot but ended on a good one. Tonight was the first night since I ended things that we said good night to each other without tears or anger mixed in. She's not happy, I'm not happy, but we're at least attempting to work through this civilly now.

The biggest hiccup at the end of the day however was her asking me if in 6 months we can try again. I told her that I have no idea how I'm going to feel in 6 months, which is true. I love 70% of my wife, the other 30% is a nightmare. If she were ever able to get help and get back to where she was when we first met I'd probably give it another shot. I did not tell her this however. The last thing I want is her waiting with false hope for the 6 month mark hoping that I'm going to call and say I want to try again. That is only going to ruin her recovery and also hang over my head. I'm hoping that a few months on her own and she'll realize that being single is not that bad, maybe even meet someone almost as awesome as me... I kid.

So I know some are going to pissed about some of my decisions today, but I think I'm doing ok. I'm bending over and letting her stay here, flying away and reducing myself to a door mat. But I'm also not throwing her out on the street and exercising my will of dominance.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Pissed? No, it's your life to live but I do think it's damn foolish to put yourself on the 'hook' for future loans and financial issues of hers based on old 'promises' and 'dreams' that have now been shat all over.

I highly suggest going to your lawyer tomorrow, and asking him what the bare minimum you are required to do legally for her. This doesn't entail the lawyer telling you how to 'screw' her over, but the bare minimum is all that should be done.

Anything else, you'll be kicking yourself later for.


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