# Why does he do this?



## pigpen (May 5, 2008)

I could use some help.
I don't get what my husband wants. 

Let me give you just a little back ground.
We have been married for 18 years. We have always struggled in our marriage and I have thought about leaving my husband many times. He has been a jackass and I have too. So we have not been close in an interpersonal way.
We are, however, decent social companions and so if we ignore the marriage we get along mostly OK.
I have stayed because of financial reasons, because of my son and because if I dont think about my marriage as something to fix its not bad. Just not close or personal.
We have not had sex in 8 years. I tried to get him interested for 2 years after my son was born and he would sometimes be interested. But he never approached me and I just gave up even asking. I am 41. 

Any way, since we have called a truce we have been closer. Not by much. We simply don't argue. We do not have sex, or kiss. We do have the occasional friendly hug. But we don't go out as a couple (have no done so in 10 years). We have agreed to do our best in our marriage and this keeps us neutral. I am happier because I am not an emotional wreck.

Any way, when we first stopped having sex altogether I was in good shape and was quite the hotty. So I know my physical appearance was not distasteful.

But I never figured out why he would not have sex and he would never tell me even though I would ask him point blank.

Here is the question -
We were discussing sex in some general and non personal way (probably some article on the web) and he says
"yeah, I have been thinking about that. How would you feel if I bought some condoms. You know, just in case the situation would ever come up".

Now I know this guy has been faithful - at least physically. I know he is not close to anyone. 

But what the hell is he thinking? We don't kiss. We have no romance. 

I don't want to make my situation worse than it is so I just looked at him and said "it takes a lot more work than that."

He kind of skulks off saying "yeah, I thought you would say that."

I think he is just trying to press his luck to see what he can get away with. But why in the hell is doing this now? What does he really want?

Red danger signs are flashing before my eyes and I fail to understand what is going on. Is this male communication thing? 

Thanks for the help!


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

He was making a small effort forward before you killed it. It was a slight way to ask about sex after all these years. Maybe he has a medical issue as well. I think the only way for you to get hat you want is to communicate and both of you seem bad at it so I would suggest a councilor.

draconis


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

draconis said:


> He was making a small effort forward before you killed it.


I beg you to put your ego to one side and apologise to him. Obviously you have built up a wall of resentment about being neglected, but he is finally wanting to do something about it. You speak of romance, but he had guts to say what he said, isn't that romantic?


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## pigpen (May 5, 2008)

Do men think this is romantic?
To ignore someone for so long and then ask if they should by condoms?
Its not that I am resentful.

But after so long we are strangers sexually. 
I think he treated the situation without thought or respect for me. 

But this is good to know that men think this is OK as a line of thought. It gives me some idea what may be going in his head.

Quite frankly I found the question a bit humiliating and degrading. I thought it showed that he did not care for me but that I was conveniently available. 

Do men really think all it takes is "can I buy some condoms"?

That is so low. It is worse than prostitution. Its expecting something for nothing at all.

I have nothing to apologize for. I am not resentful of past hurts. But I am working in the now. The now says we havent had sex for 8 years and there is no long a "right of demand" in place.

We are at square one in that area and its well within my right to expect the same sort of care and respect anyone would expect at square one. Just because there is a piece of paper and a child between us does not mean he has any right to just expect me to open my legs like a prostitute.

I have more respect for myself than that.


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## pigpen (May 5, 2008)

Draconis - do you really think putting the cart before the horse is "making some small effort?" How about an intimate conversation - sweet words and some emotional closeness before we jump into sex? eh? 
How about making the relationship emotionally close enough for sex to actually happen? 
And THEN broaching the idea?

Your post makes me so mad! 
I have no obligation to provide sex to this man who happens to live in my house. Its not about ego. Its about human respect.
I am not a prostitute. i am a human being.
Discussing politics calmly at dinner is not close enough to even discuss sex let alone do it.
Discussing some generallity of sex is not close enough to have sex. 
How about some basic arrousal?
Do you think I should put my ego aside pretend that arousal is not important?
pltthhth!


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## pigpen (May 5, 2008)

MarkTwain - I have nothing to apologize for.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Well if he can't and you will not get there by baby steps then I think without counciling you are dooming yourselves to the situation you are in. To quote you pltthhth!

draconis


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I'm sorry to say this, BUT my separated husband and I are closer than the two of you. And I complain about how distant he is towards me. By all mean, go to counseling.


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## pigpen (May 5, 2008)

By all means baby steps are the way to go.
How about affection?
I guess I am missing something.
Counseling is a given for me.
He chooses not to go.

I dont get why you all seem to think my attitude is messed up on this one and I really would like to figure it out.

It just seems so sudden, out of place and yes, disrespectful to jump into a conversation about birth control.

Draconis - you said baby steps. This isnt a baby step. This is huge when you have been celibate for 8 years.
How is this a small thing?

What should I have said?
Sex is out of the question without more emotional intimacy.
What could I have said?
Oh do buy those condoms? I wont have sex with you right now but you never know what may happen?

That would have been an out and out lie. We need so much more than a box of condoms. 

Should I have said - I will consider it if we are closer?
He would have seen this as an insult too.

There is absolutely nothing I can think of that would have been appropriate to say in this situation.

Frankly I am really disheartened that my question generated flak right off the bat. I really dont get it at all. I was shocked by his question and shocked by the few responses I have recieved so far.

What would a man have wanted his wife to say in this situation?
If you were my husband posing that question - what do you expect out of it?
What would you have wanted me to do?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

In this regard, Draconis is correct; if neither of you are open to, or capable of acknowledging the efforts of the other, to thaw the cold-war, nothing will change. If you cannot find an effective means to communicate with one another - where you are now is as good as it will ever get, and it will only continue to degrade.

That said, here is my piece, being in a similar situation:



> How about making the relationship emotionally close enough for sex to actually happen?
> And THEN broaching the idea?


This is exactly what should happen. But, it is unrealistic. You aren't emotionally close. You don't even sound friendly towards one another. 

His comment *was* stupid. It sounds more to me like he was actually setting himself up for exactly the response he got. My wife does this too. It's her way of being passive aggressive. 

Ask him what he wants his marriage to be. Ask him to describe it in detail. Write it down if that makes it easier. You should do the same. Then share them, and hopefully there will be at least ONE thing in common between your lists. Decide to work at, and meet that desire or need for one another. If there is no common ground, or he refuses to even participate, you should focus your energy in another direction.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Okay I don't want to make you irate I just want a clarification here on a few things.

You are still with your husband

1) Because you are "decent social companions "
2) You have stayed for "financial reasons"
3) "because of [you] son"
4) You don't think your marriage is that bad.

Okay #1 Because you are "decent social companions " But [you] don't go out as a couple (have no done so in 10 years). :scratchhead:
#2 You have stayed for "financial reasons" Okay I'll give you that on your word.
#3 "because of [you] son" Personally I don't see the benefit to your son other than you will know a step parent will not be treating him badly. But he will grow up in a loveles house and will fail to know how to treat a lady. Further does it change things when he moves out?
#4 You don't think your marriage is that bad. Okay so no communication, no sincerity, no intimate touch is all okay because you don't argue?
In another thread you said " I have tried hard to figure out how to make this work. but I hate every minute of it"
"Fix? That is obviously no optional at this point in the game." "I am sincerely tired of arguing and so give up."
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/1217-multiple-problems.html

You asked "Is this male communication thing? " The answer is no and to think that way is sexist. Does you husband have a problem communicating, from what you described sure. But you lack empathy "He kind of skulks off", "yes my husband is lazy." "he is a parked car facing the wrong direction with a stalled transmission" "
my husband is an a-hole" "gee you are lame, {to husband on thought} " "I now recognize that he is disrespectful" "And tells me he would get it done if I didnt nag all the time. <eyeroll>" "I think he is a prude." 

The way I see it it takes two. You had the choice to engage him in a meaningful conversation about a topic that can help both of you. Instead you fired back at him knowing only worring about "you[r] situation."

You then asked for help understanding. I responded. I suggested to communicate and maybe use a councilor and I though he was trying to get back the sexual part of the relationship.

You fired back at me and MT for not being cheerleaders for you. You think you did nothing wrong and he is the only one to blame. Further you continue to use sexist remarks classifying all men together. Yet you find nothing wrong with being sexist either. You also have the same sexism in other threads, "(well I know) you can wait for infinity for your man to "get it". He wont right now."

Egoism~the habit of valuing everything only in reference to one's personal interest; selfishness.

MT may not have been going there as I think he meant ego as in protecting or thinking of oneself. Instead treating the marriage like a partnership.

So I came back at it to again help you and explain it another way.

Guess what I get blasted again! WHy because you don't understand that it will take a thousand steps to get to where you need to go. He made the first one and you blasted him back 1000 more. Then you blast everyone for not siding with you. This isn't about sides. It is about the lack of communication and empathy in your relationship.

To answer your last question


> If you were my husband posing that question - what do you expect out of it?


Frankly I wouldn't stay in a loveless relationship, I have to much respect for myself.

You know for the most part your first 24-28 posts were well balanced, helpful and insightful. Then they turned against men, against anyone that seemed not to have sympathy towards you, and anyone not against your husband. You have not painted him as a nice man. I understand that your family will not help you out, and his family gives you grief. I am sure that the relationship is stressful, and has hurt your self esteem. But the people on the forums are not against you. But we do have our opinions. That is all we have to offer.

draconis


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

pigpen-

When I made my reply, I had not read your previous threads. Now that I have, I understand more of your viewpoint. It seem that he never took the time to warm you up even when you did have sex.

So by mentioning condoms, you probably thought, "here we go again", sex yes, but no intimacy...

However, I really want both of you to succeed, so here is a thought. A man far wiser than I taught me that people often attract other people into their lives that mirror exactly what they feel in themselves.

In your earlier threads, you mention your frustration at not having had sex for 8 years. With the "condom incident" it appears that the situation now has the possibility to come out of the deep freeze.

I thought that is what you wanted? The title and start of this thread is "why does he do this - I could use some help.
I don't get what my husband wants". Based on the mirror principle, I could well ask "Why are *you *doing this, I don't get what *you *want" 

But... you are right. When you defrost an item from the freezer, it comes out just how it went in, maybe worse. So your hubby knows nothing of how to make sex tender... and his condom suggestion perhaps shows that. But you have to begin from where you are. If you are smart, (and I think you are), you could have him eating out of your hand. I am happy to suggest a few tricks to try.

I never meant to seem down on you by the way, I really like your style of writing, you have a punchy way of talking that makes me respect you, and I can see why your hubby has stuck around even though you both argue.


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## pigpen (May 5, 2008)

draconis said:


> Okay I don't want to make you irate I just want a clarification here on a few things.
> 
> You are still with your husband
> 
> ...


No one can know what they would do in another's place. Its easy to say what you would or would not do. But its not sp easy to see neuances or explain 18 years of marriage on a forum.

MarkTwain-
You are right.
What I want - Instead of conversations about condoms, I want hand holding and kisses. 

There is not anything wrong with wanting basic respect. And starting slow means not missing the steps.

Draconis - I see your point of view. I am thinking on these things. I am thinking on my husbands point of view too. That is why I came to the forum with my question.

Given my situation I would rather try to build love than continue as we have been. If I could afford the 150 an hour for a counselor I would be there so fast. But right now its not an option. Right now I have to make do by reading what I can and looking for help here. 

I have to say that "it takes more work than that" does not have to be a conversation killer. He could have said "what do you have in mind?" or "what do you mean?"

I did not show my husband my ire or put him down because I DO recognize that to him, his question, was trying.

We have reached a companionable truce. Meaning we get along if we dont bring up painful topics. Meaning we can share a meal with our son and its not painful or tense. 

But we have a long way to go. 

Draconis you mentioned a "loveless marriage". I don't know that my marriage IS loveless. But is not healthy. 

When we got married I had all kinds of ideas of what marriage is. i dont have those same ideas. I need new ones. I AM trying. 


I have to go to work.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

pigpen-
What do you want right now? Do you want advice on how to get the sex thing back on the road, (with a sprinkling of romance thrown in) or not?

By the way, if ever I quote your own words back at you, it's just for clarification, not as a put down. I like you anyway.


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

---He was making a small effort forward before you killed it.---

Your pride is to blame here. Its like if he doesn't express interest in the exact words, the exact way, the exact place, and the exact time that you want him to, that he is failing.

The hostile way you are responding to people that are trying to help you, and the constant assertions that "you owe him nothing" make it seem like you have a guilty conscience.

---Do men really think all it takes is "can I buy some condoms"?---

Again, you are choosing to focus on the literal meaning, vs the "real" meaning of what he asked you. You then go on to make several defensive claims of owing him nothing, and him having no right, such as:

---I have no obligation to provide sex to this man who happens to live in my house.---

Wow... ok that "my house" is especially cold, and I suspect inaccurate since the FIRST REASON you list for staying is "financial". 

Imagine him saying the same to you, but replace "sex" with "emotional support" or "financial support". I bet you are thinking "oh thats not the same". You're wrong, its EXACTLY the same.

---You think you did nothing wrong and he is the only one to blame.---

This, at the end of the day, is one of the biggest problems in this situation. You are CHOOSING to see his actions as wronging you, instead of an attempt at communication that they are.

Before you blow me off, just consider the following in entirety...

You need to go up to him, apologize for being so short, and saying that the only reason you were so short was that he caught you off guard. You should tell him that you ABSOLUTELY think that the idea of him buying condoms "just in case" is a GREAT idea, AND *(and this is where you get to plug YOUR wants)* that if you guys can also work on the emotional connection, "just in case" could be pretty soon.


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

---What I want - Instead of conversations about condoms, I want hand holding and kisses.---

Again, spitting back on him when he reaches out to you is NOT going to achieve this end.

---There is not anything wrong with wanting basic respect. And starting slow means not missing the steps.---

Stop worrying about him following YOUR steps exactly as YOU want them to be followed at YOUR time, and start recognizing his efforts.

I think you responded on my nagging thread, and I think you are seeing some VERY VALUABLE insight into how men think. I have said countless times (as have other men) that when they try, and are shot down, they feel worthless and stop trying.

Your husband just tried, and was shot down. He is not going to try again anytime soon without some sign that its worth the effort.


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

Do you see the irony in asking how men think and then biting back at the answers? Are you really interested in how men think and behave or are you wanting to hear people agree with you on what a pig your husband is?

Your husband, in his own way, tried to approach you about sex. After all these years of failed communication do you think it's realistic he would know exactly how to communciate those words to you? I know you want it done Hollywood style with choclates and flowers but you have to start somewhere.

Think about what he was really trying to do instead of killing him on his style points.

You have a long way to go yourself. You sound angry and resentful. Not that it's unwarrented. But if you want to make some progress with him you must look at the bigger picture. Any attempt at communicating with you should be welcomed. Dont shoot him down for it.

Men convey affection through sex.


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## pigpen (May 5, 2008)

You know - my original question was a sincere one.

You all have made some good points. 

I really dont understand my husband at all. 

I came home from work today to talk to him alone. We are never alone. 

I do recognize compassion is a two way street. 

I do recognize that men and women do not communicate in the same way. I just dont think I get how men DO communicate.

I dont think either one of us had a good self esteem when we met. I know it has not gotten better for being together.

So what did I say today?
I said " I am sorry". I am sorry for saying things that hurt you when I am not trying to hurt you. I am sorry I dont understand but I really want to and I am trying. I told him I am sorry that I dont give enough compassion. And I am sorry if I do not seem supportive. I want to be supportive and I am doing my best to figure out ways to do that.


Some of the comments on this thread have not been fair to me. And some of my comments about my husband have not been fair to him.

I am not here to make men angry. Or take a beating.

Chopblock - I cant say "thats a great idea". that would be a lie. I dont think it is a great idea. i think it is pre-mature.
There has got to be some middle ground between promises I dont know that I can keep and keeping the door open to possibilities. To me committing to birth control is making a promise of sexual activity.

I cant promise that. 

I dont know how anyone else feels but sex isnt just physical it is emotional too. If the emotional bond is not there sex is not so good. It sure makes me feel cheap. I dont like that and it wont bring me closer to my husband.

Chop - you mentioned stop expecting things my way and recognize his efforts. 

This is part of the conversation between my husband and myself. 
Its all stuff you cant see and I cant explain properly. But over the course of our marriage (when we were having sex) he used to tell me he wants it when he wants it and if I dont understand that then "I dont know what to tell you"

I just wanted a little warning and warming up before sex and I tried very hard to show him what made me feel good. What would warm me up and make me feel sexy. 
Common stuff - cuddling on the couch and kissing just because it is nice to kiss. But he would tell me "to get over it" and that I had to learn to do it his way. I would do it his way - and I would try to create what I thought his way was.
I suprized him one time by dressing up in sexy lingere.
He refused me - he said he did not want to make love to me when I was acting so cheap and then said "dont cheapen yourself like that".
But without some warm up and closeness I DO feel cheap.

I never could figure this one out. I am willing to listen, and I am willing to drop the cuddles and kissess some time. But dont I get them ever? Is it really selfish for me to expect some of that in my marriage? That makes me feel really sad.

Finances - yeah. Well I work full time. he works 2 nights a week at a long over night shift. he earns 9 bucks per hour and is trying to become a self supporting artist. I earn more and it pays most of our bills but the 800 or so he brings home ensures we all eat. 

Do I love him? DO I want to be loved by him?

I used to have this idea that we were good together and that we would be like his parents. Strong and enduring and still in love. Love growing deeper with time.

I know everyone of us on this board felt that way when we got married. We want it to work - we really did want our marriages to work. But we are all flawed humans. We lack skills. We lack patience. I dont think any of us started out lacking love.
But we dont always know how to get what we want and we certainly dont always understand what the other person wants.

Its not so easy to say "walk away" or "loveless marriage". There is love there. Its buried pretty deep sometimes. Over time its also become harder to separate the hurts from the good stuff. 

A lot of people would have walked away. 

My husband can be emotionally abusive. At least he used to be in the past. that is getting better though.
Some time this past summer we had some break through there where he could see that and recognize it for what it is.

Yes - I am angry sometimes. I bring my anger here instead of taking it out on him. Sadly that has not always been the case.
I try very hard to see his point of view and to try to curtail my words. i dont always succeed. But I really do work on it.

My comment "it take more work than that" was not intended to slam him. I was struggling with the right words. I wanted to convey the idea that I was open to the possibility but that its just not right to buy condoms before we are even close to having sex. It looks like this is one of those times when I failed in my mission.

You all dont know that when I met him he was homeless. But I loved him any way. you all dont know I have had to endure comparisons of my lack of beauty with the beauty of someone else. Or that he leaves a mess and tells me "the house is a pig sty" and makes me aware in no uncertain terms that I am to blame for that. Not so much now - but before.
You dont know that when my son was 6 months old I slipped on the stairs and dropped my son. God - I felt so bad. You dont know that I had to endure a 3 hour diatribe about my carelessness and worthlessness and my stupidity. And how he was not sure if he could trust me with the baby. I was just so dumb I was going to kill the child. 
I stayed then because I knew he was scarred for my son and his words were not becasue of me but because of his fear. 

You also dont know that when my family isnt there for me - my husband suddenly becomes supportive and careing. You dont know that when I was let go from my job several years ago -, my husband was right there assuring me that it would be Ok and we could get through the financial hardship.

You dont know that I know he built a studio in our yard for me and he did it because he loves me. you dont know that before he acutally built it he wrote a contract and then broke the contract less than 3 months later. One of many broken promises. But he did it in the end becasue he could see that his actions hurt me. He could not do that a few years ago.

Does he love me or not? He is confusing guy. Kind, generous and caring and an utter jerk all rolled into one.

Yes - I love the guy that IS the considerate and careing. Its there and I do see it. i dont love the guy who can treat me like crap and think I should thank him for it.

You probably do know that I am utterly human and have made many mistakes too. Mistakes that other men would have left me for. I love him for that too.

But those mistakes on both our parts has not made us happy. But I think the biggest reason we stay together is that we DO see glimmers of that person we love in one another. That there is still some hope of having a really deep love.

Yeah- partially its financial. Partially because of my son, partially becasue of that love that I think is still there somewhere. 

I had time to write this becasue I took the day off. I came home from work to tell my husband the things that started this post.

I am not without compassion or thought. I am not. 

My husband sleeps on Mondays and this is why I have had the time to post all of this.

I got home - woke him up and told him I was sorry. He was tired and went back to sleep. But he cried and told me I dont have anything to be sorry for and that he understood I was not trying to be mean. I really was not. 

He had to go back to sleep. But I just wanted you all to know.

Its not easy to post on this board and be understood for what you mean. Some times I am so angry at him, at me and my inability to figure it all out.

I want to come home and get a sweet hug and a kiss and put dinner on the table for my family. I want to feel secure and I want to him to feel loved and secure too. And I want that for my son most of all.


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

That really was a beautiful heartfelt post. I'm sure it feels good to pour yourself out on paper sometime.

One thing for sure I have gotten from this forum is how flawed we all are as humans. Devleoping compassion and understanding sure goes a long way to helping keep marriages togeather.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

pigpen-

I loved that last post 

One thing on a practical note. You say there is no point him buying condoms until you have got to that stage, but... If in a few weeks or days time, you suddenly feel close enough - it's going to kill the mood if one of you has to go out in the rain to buy some. So giving him the benefit of the doubt, you could say he was being responsible and practical.

So my advice, tell him to get some in. That will put him back on track faster than saying sorry will (which you already did).

As for your need to be warmed up, I have a feeling that now he is older and wiser, he might just be trainable, as long as you don't expect Casanova to take over in 3 sessions time


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

Hey *pigpen* you must of wrote a book and not once, even when you where talking all compassionate, did I read anything about you just shutting up and giving him some without him having to jump through emotional hoops. 
All I read was that you want hugs and kisses, what a big person you are for telling him you were sorry, then him being the bigger person by saying "you have nothing to be sorry about" when you obviously do have some blame to accept as you stated yourself. He sounds scarred of you and or sick of your stuff that's why he waited 8 years to build up the courage to ask for some in his own beat down awkward way, only to be shot down.

You sound almost proud of the fact that you've neglected your man for so long and that he hasn't cheated, hiding behind 
"if he would do this or do that for me, I would be more open to sex" expecting compensation for your services and then getting mad because he's "treating you like a prostitute". 
Your statement, that you had a good figure and he still didn't want you back in the day, was missing the obvious. You see, my Wife is hot and beautiful but I wont touch her when she pisses me off or is being a "B", she disgusts me actually and makes my skin crawl when she touches me the longer she makes me wait.

I, like your husband has obviously mastered, am getting good at not asking for it and just waiting for the month to come around when she gets her head out of her ass long enough to see that she is not alone in this relationship or finally wants it without all the strings attached. 

This forum is a great place to let off steam, get things off your chest and if you are open to looking at yourself through the eyes of others and being honest, you can actually learn something too.

I really do hope you figure this situation out soon for your husbands sake.

You should be grateful that your man has morals or loves you or something, because any lesser man would not have gone 8 years without cheating or kicking you to the curb.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

pigpen said:


> I got home - woke him up and told him I was sorry. He was tired and went back to sleep. But he cried and told me I dont have anything to be sorry for and that he understood I was not trying to be mean. I really was not.


Is this out of character for him to cry? If so, I would say this is a great starting point in reconnecting with him and knowing he's appreciating where you're coming from.

Maybe not literally, but maybe make a mental note to put a condom in the virtual condom jar


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I think its good that you're getting all your angry and frustration out on here. I like your writing style. its very up front and 'real.' When i first came on these posts i was angry and resentful of my H, too. It did come out in my responses. If you keep posting you might notice your perspective change and you will become less angry. ive noticed that since i've been posting and reading posts that my attitude towards my H has become softer and less resentful. 

Take what people say on here with a grain of salt. No one on here knows you or knows exactly what is going on with you. Plus, just like you, some people come on here with a lot of anger and resentment that comes out towards you, but is really not about you. Its probably also something they want to say to their spouse but vent on here instead.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

*carmaenforcer*

If you read pigpen's earlier threads, you can see why she is not over the moon. I expect she would probably admit to a 50/50 situation.


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

ljtseng said:


> I think its good that you're getting all your angry and frustration out on here. I like your writing style. its very up front and 'real.' When i first came on these posts i was angry and resentful of my H, too. It did come out in my responses. If you keep posting you might notice your perspective change and you will become less angry. ive noticed that since i've been posting and reading posts that my attitude towards my H has become softer and less resentful.
> 
> Take what people say on here with a grain of salt. No one on here knows you or knows exactly what is going on with you. Plus, just like you, some people come on here with a lot of anger and resentment that comes out towards you, but is really not about you. Its probably also something they want to say to their spouse but vent on here instead.


:iagree:

I have a lot of anger and resentment and this forum has been a form of therapy for me. Sometime reading others issues or their comments about my obvious issues is just what I need to see the error in my ways or to sympathize for my Wife.


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

---I dont know how anyone else feels but sex isnt just physical it is emotional too. If the emotional bond is not there sex is not so good. It sure makes me feel cheap. I dont like that and it wont bring me closer to my husband.---

This is one of the saddest downward spirals between men and women. Men need sex to feel loved, while women need to feel loved to have sex. If the women don't feel loved, they won't give sex, which makes the men feel unloved, therefore the men don't show love... and so on.

If you want to break the downward spiral, then ONE of you has to make the first move. ONE OF YOU has to take a step forward, maybe TWO OR THREE (since you guys have such a history of feeling resentful, it may take a LOT of action on one part before a reaction is obtained).

---So my advice, tell him to get some in. That will put him back on track faster than saying sorry will ---

I agree, and here is my reason. You said you don't understand how men think? Well men are problem solvers, and they look for problems to solve. In his mind, taking an action (getting condoms) is a step towards solving a problem. When you shot him down, you rejected his involvement.

Saying you are sorry was an EXCELLENT first step. You have been told by several people here to tell him to go get the condoms. Tell him to go get them. Bottom line, IT CAN'T HURT.


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

:iagree:

Nice post *Chopblock*



> Men need sex to feel loved, while women need to feel loved to have sex. If the women don't feel loved, they won't give sex, which makes the men feel unloved, therefore the men don't show love... and so on.


Sad but true...


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Chopblock said:


> Saying you are sorry was an EXCELLENT first step. You have been told by several people here to tell him to go get the condoms. Tell him to go get them. Bottom line, IT CAN'T HURT.


I agree with part of this. I do think saying sorry is a good first step. its important to acknowledge someone else's efforts, even if they arent exactly what we'd like at that moment. But the effort is the important part to acknowledge.

From a women's perspective, however, feeling cheap and used during sex is the worst feeling in the world. the feeling that she is just a prostitute, and cheap need to be resolved before being intimate with him or she will do damage to herself. i think she needs to also respect her boundaries.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

ljtseng-

I took the trouble to read pigpen's other threads. She tried to get him to initiate sex with her many years ago, and in the end she gave up.

So to that extent, I feel she needs to work with what she has, and try to improve it.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> ljtseng-
> 
> I took the trouble to read pigpen's other threads. She tried to get him to initiate sex with her many years ago, and in the end she gave up.
> 
> So to that extent, I feel she needs to work with what she has, and try to improve it.


I agree that she has to work with what she has. 

If she just goes for it and is intimate with him thinking that will absolve her feeling, well, it would be like telling herself, if it hurts, do it anyway. if doing something hurts, emotionally or physically, then one shouldn't do it. Before she is intimate with him she needs to resolve why she feels so worthless and cheap. Not keep banging her head against a pole hoping this time it wont hurt. That is what she has to work with, and it is the start of becoming intimate again.


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## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

Oh, this is sad. You went from being lovers to room mates, darlin. You need help with your marriage, because you need to get that closeness back. I could see if your husband had a dead horse, and can't help it, but if this is not the case, than he might be getting it somewhere else. 
Not trying to put bad thoughts in your mind, sweetheart, but if I were you, I would go get help for your marriage. Either that or find someone else.


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## Sweet love (Sep 10, 2008)

YES THATS WHAT I WAS THINKING TOO.
WHEN THE GUY CALL WOMEN DARLIN AND SWEETHEART to soemoen else than you then youc an be sure there is soemthing wrong. Also when he refuse closeness with you, but try hell all he can to get it with others than you.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

I liked your post #18, I have been away for many days.

The problem with the posts are we never can have enough information and base all our judgement on what we have or think we have and from our point of view.

I wonder what type of home your husband grew up in, that he feels the need to hide emotions like he does? I wonder why he hasn't softened up after all these years?

draconis


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## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

draconis said:


> I liked your post #18, I have been away for many days.
> 
> The problem with the posts are we never can have enough information and base all our judgement on what we have or think we have and from our point of view.
> 
> ...


 Some people are set in their ways, I guess.


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## Sweet love (Sep 10, 2008)

pigpen said:


> I could use some help.
> I don't get what my husband wants.
> 
> Let me give you just a little back ground.
> ...



married 18 years.
no sex for 10 years
no physical contacts
no kiss
no romance
but my dear, you are not married with that guy but on paper!
there is absolutly nothign between you and him!
if oyu stay for ther money thats compeltely wrong.
divorce
go out
stay friend with him as oyu are anyway
and go found oyurself soemone who will lvoe you and wil rejoice in making love to oyu!
i cant beleive that you stayed like that withotu ahving sex from you were 33!!
what the heck is he thinking about and why do you go along with it?
cant oyu see it is completely wrong?
you are no longer married with him. officialy, but in reality there is nothing at all in that marriage.
its cal friendship not marriage..
and even friends will be closer than that.
and his attempt at having sex wiht oyu is really rude and gross!
you said yourself it gone worng before and oyu wantede to leave.
why didnt you do that?
thats what oyu MUST do.
thats a very unhealthy thing oyu got there, and oyu should break it as soon as possible.
There is absolutly no love at all so why keep it going?
looks even like oyu dispise each others for the most.
its not like there is a problem to besolved sincde you can go out and have good time but as firends or as pal, but not as a married couple, so i tel you, get a divorce make a friendly one and it will be hte case since both of you wants to go and its been like that isnce 10 years, and get yoruself a new life before its too late!
why on earth did you wait to be over the 40 before thinkign of oyu and your future??
do you realise that by now oyu could bewith someoen else that will love you and have a super good time and feel happy everyday, and this since ýears?
instead to stay with this brute.
I am really sorry for you cause its not funny to go through that. How could oyu sleep in the same bed for so long with no feelings for one another and beign so young?
And you call it marriage? people cal anythign for marriage as long as they got a paper on it now a day.
But its not marriage.
Thats a circus.
You need a wake up call lady, and i hope this one is it, cause its time for you to do some catch up in your sex life..and in your emotional life and in your self awareness.
You just told us that you spend over 60% of your married life unmarried.. :scratchhead: why did you stayed?
and i imagined that before stopping sexual contacts there had been signs of a bad marriage..
So oyu were goign along for how long realy? 5 years? less?
Do oyu now see in perspective how much time of yoru life you just waisted with the worng person, who is a pal but as hubbys goes, a total stranger?
WOW! thats what i call a bad habit that hang long and strong.
Do you have friends? did you told any of them about that?
As for money goes, by gettign divorced you could get money for the kid and i dont think it will ahve been a problem..
You have been cheatign yourself for far too long.
it is not just sex that left the marriage but love and everythign that makes one.
as for your son i dont see whats good for a kid to be in a house with no love. Do you?


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## Sweet love (Sep 10, 2008)

A man that use you as a hole to get his instrument in and pleasure himself on oyu, should be deeply ashame of himself, and should e throw out the door!
He never like having sex but enhjoyed masturbating himself inside you.
No kisses?
no caressing?
but hte man do not care abotu you not even in sexual ways and even is discust by you
the alone hting he wanted was to satify his won needs and i do not get how draconis and twain and chop can have the nerve of talking oif her having to make effort and comparing women ways to men ways!
hello!
men do kiss and do like caresses and to caress the woman they are together with and do not jump on her like apiece of meat just to stick it in and come!
thats not making love that banging like a dog!
I understand her and i dotn understadn how she accepted being treated like this for so long and even married him.
He has no affection for oyu at all and you should never have stayed with him.
it is oyu who is working and him not
you provide him on all.
the guy see oyu as a sex doll or sexual object so oyu go buy some condoms and you assume the position and he satisfied himself and thats it.
Heeelllooo there! i am choked!
how can any of you guy agree with that?
and in worse he tell her ot go buy some condoms! WHAT!?
the guy got a serious egoistic problem and a seriosu lack of emotional intelligence and thats it.
Any man doing as he did and does will be show the door by anyone.
and to have sex with her as he does is call rape.
If he never kissed her and bee gentle to her before the act, then he never did anythign for her.
Lady: run run run! out of this faulse marriage full of misery!

I will say to him "here is oyur condom" and buy him a sex doll form a sex shop. i am sure he wotn even notice the difference. oh yes, he even have to wear a condom so he might even like it better!

Why do you say sorry to the guy for?
he is the one not doing what he should he is the one lacking "the other half" of what a marriage is, while you are the oen doign it all and blaming oyurself for all and everything and for not doing enough.
stop it lady! as oyu can see men never get enough.. form male reactions they just think its ok that you do all that and he do nothing..
but its not ok, so get out of it. 
he only stay with you because its comfortable and you dont annoy him with private talks liek if oyu were total strangers. But oyu want to talk about those subjects and they need to be talk through.
he is the one that do not want to do so.
And no there si nothign call men way of thingkinh and talkign and women ones.. if they want to be understood beleive me there is no need for a chineese translator! so all that is hypocrisy!
and men do know perfectly that you dont just come home expecting yoru wife to be legs open in the entrance, you come in, ejaculate and leave go watch tv!
cause thats exactly what chop said. and the other gfuys and no thats not natural thats not normal, and thats totaly inhuman to expect from you that you wil go along with 10 years of emotional indiference and then jump in bed just like that!
youa re right and they are wrong . your husband is totaly beside his shoes in his assumptions about how thigns should be and a bit disrange in fact.
or he takes you for a fool or he is retard. All men and i will say everybody no matter the gender do know that you need tenderness and touching and do like it too in love situationa nd in sexual ones too.
the alone situation where you dont kiss and warm up is with a prostitute so oyur husband has been using you as one for as long as you ahd sex!! thats horrefull!
I follw you entirely. if he doesnt show some care then there is nothing.
but oyu have to divorce and go out of that marriage what are you still doing wiht that man?
of course there willl be some good memories after almost 20 years together thats obvious, but that doesnt outbalance all the rest and its your life, and soon it will be too late for oyu to bgin a new life so dont stand still anylonger, get yoruself free and build up a new and much much better life for yoruself.
Maybe oyur childhood memories made you strong wishing for a strong home, and that has been oyur jail in htis life.
comfort and security instead of happyness. but it is you that builded it klady, oyu seems to forget it. it is you that pay the bills and come with bread on the table and not him.
So please do soemthing fopr yopurself now and cut oyurself free live alone for a year and found real love else where.
you deserve much much better than that in oyur life!
you do deserve to be loved and taken care of and you do deserve to b ekissed and wanted by a man.
So cut yourself lose and learn ot be yourself again.. free from him and free from your childhood trauma.. 

You need love, lots of love, and there is someone out there waiting to give you just that, but for that opportunity to actualise, you will have first to have made yoruself free from whats weiging yoru life and selfestime down at the moment.
Get rid of the dead weight. Push away all yoru fears to do so. Dont be scared of takign the wrogn decision or making the rigth choice, do what you feel isnide is the rigth thing to do, do what your very very angry heart is telling you to do snce so very long.
cut lose. and for good.


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## TheLuckiest08 (Jun 2, 2008)

pigpen said:


> Do men think this is romantic?
> To ignore someone for so long and then ask if they should by condoms?


Men usually aren't the best communicators. It sounds like he was testing out the water to try to gauge your reaction.....and your reaction was "no way." No matter what resentment you've had in the past, you have to ask yourself if you want to continue living this way or give your husband the chance he is looking for. The best response would have been surprise, then "that sounds like a good idea..." It's not too late to talk to him about this, though.......


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## TheLuckiest08 (Jun 2, 2008)

brad said:


> Do you see the irony in asking how men think and then biting back at the answers? Are you really interested in how men think and behave or are you wanting to hear people agree with you on what a pig your husband is?
> 
> Your husband, in his own way, tried to approach you about sex. After all these years of failed communication do you think it's realistic he would know exactly how to communciate those words to you? I know you want it done Hollywood style with choclates and flowers but you have to start somewhere.
> 
> ...


ITA


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

men oversimplify, women overanalize


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## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

okeydokie said:


> men oversimplify, women overanalize


Na..men don't care and women do. Did I get any points :smthumbup: for that one, Ladies?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Honey said:


> Na..men don't care and women do. Did I get any points :smthumbup: for that one, Ladies?



hmmmmmmmmm, i think you have shed light on some things, yeah


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## husbandinthemking (Oct 3, 2008)

For the record, most men see sex as being intimate and close to their partner. 

Woman on the other hand need an emotional connection to feel close to their partner. 

It is as clear as crystal.


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