# My friends affair



## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

My friend disclosed to me recently that she had a 6 month affair. She was caught and they are dealing with the consequences. I am 100% against affairs, but when she told me about it I couldn't help feel so sorry for her. (Yes she was wrong and I feel bad for him obviously, but I know her on a personal level and she is so in love with her husband and works her butt off to be a good mother/wife/provider).

They have 4 kids. She is beautiful and cares about her looks. She works full time plus goes to school full time, he works full time also. She had always told me since I've known her that she always initiates sex. They had great sex but it was only because she initiated, she told him about how it bothered her but he never changed or stuck to making more of an effort. She was getting denied a lot by him to the point of making her feel like a pervert. One day she initiated again and he snapped and said geez you need medication! After that something in her died. The next day when she ran into an old friend that he hasn't seen in a while, and she said... Katie, he looked at me in a way that I haven't been looked at in a long time. I don't know why but this broke my heart. And that was the beginning of their affair. 

I know that this goes both ways, male and female. But I think it's so easy to become "roommates" and have such a routine life with each other that we often forget to look at our spouse as our beautiful, sexy, playmates so to speak. We just become moms and dads and whatever. As a women I know it's so important to feel desired and hot by my husband. Idk where I am going with this but I think it's a common problem with marriages... we stop dating each other.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

This is almost like looking into the future.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Yes the husband was severely lacking in his duties and was asking for big trouble.

doesnt excuse the affair, but the advice is totally valid.

never take your spouses for granted.

realize what a privalege and sacred thing it is to be married.

never forget. Remind yourself every day.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> My friend disclosed to me recently that she had a 6 month affair. She was caught and they are dealing with the consequences. I am 100% against affairs, but when she told me about it I couldn't help feel so sorry for her. (Yes she was wrong and I feel bad for him obviously, but I know her on a personal level and she is so in love with her husband and works her butt off to be a good mother/wife/provider).
> 
> They have 4 kids. She is beautiful and cares about her looks. She works full time plus goes to school full time, he works full time also. She had always told me since I've known her that she always initiates sex. They had great sex but it was only because she initiated, she told him about how it bothered her but he never changed or stuck to making more of an effort. She was getting denied a lot by him to the point of making her feel like a pervert. One day she initiated again and he snapped and said geez you need medication! After that something in her died. The next day when she ran into an old friend that he hasn't seen in a while, and she said... Katie, he looked at me in a way that I haven't been looked at in a long time. I don't know why but this broke my heart. And that was the beginning of their affair
> .
> ...


And this is one of the reasons for breakups.Maybe if your friend had talked to her husband instead of "revealing"herself to you and probably a few more friends she wouldn't need to screw around on her husband and children.This always baffles me and was the cause of my own engagement ending,women telling their friends everything about their partners private lives and then can't understand why their partners pull away and refuse to communicate.She got caught,she didn't confess.You are painting a picture of some poor lost soul who was in such pain she could only relieve it by dropping her knickers for another man.Ffs she had four children,she must have been having some sex at least with the poor sap she left at home taking care of her kids while she fcuked around.
Also this wonderful mother/wife/provider is only looking for sympathy,of course she is going to paint her husband in as bad a light as she can.She is obviously an educated woman if she is going to school,she knew exactly what she was getting into,please do not believe this sympathy seeking bs..She jumped into bed at the first opportunity,got caught after six months (probably a lot longer)but is still so much in love with her husband.Did you actually read this after you wrote it?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

How old is she? How old is her husband? 

Does such deep love as you describe exist where infidelity exists? 

Hormones are the cause of these desires. They aren't wrong.

Does she have a history of rash decisions prior to, during or directly after menstruation?

Has her drive soared in recent years? How much did she talk to you about her marital sex life before this? 

Was she satisfied with her love life at some point in her life with her husband or was she not so sure when she married him, but thought she should try because of his potential?


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## kenyaone (Jan 26, 2017)

Sent from my TECNO-H3 using Tapatalk


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

She has talked to her husband multiple times about their sex life, there was no secret there. What do you do when you talked to your husband about not being happy with your sex life, wanting him to initiate more and he doesn't change. I get that she is 100% wrong. But when he snapped at her and told her she needs to be put on medication because she tried to initiate sex from her husband who she loves and is super attracted to and they haven't had sex in months... I mean he said that like there is something wrong with her. You needs meds? Really because I want to have sex with my husband? 

They went to therapy. They decided to stay together. This happened last year, she told me this week for the first time. Their marriage is still a struggle, and their sex life is still absent and pretty much the same as before.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

So her husband didn't lust after her and she felt rejected by him. 
Understandable but she could have talked with him instead of giving into temptation. 

Who was looking after the kids when she was with her AP? 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Andy1001 said:


> And this is one of the reasons for breakups.*Maybe if your friend had talked to her husband instead of "revealing"herself to you and probably a few more friends *she wouldn't need to screw around on her husband and children.This always baffles me and was the cause of my own engagement ending,women telling their friends everything about their partners private lives and then can't understand why their partners pull away and refuse to communicate.She got caught,she didn't confess.You are painting a picture of some poor lost soul who was in such pain she could only relieve it by dropping her knickers for another man.Ffs she had four children,she must have been having some sex at least with the poor sap she left at home taking care of her kids while she fcuked around.


The OP stated that her friend did talk to her husband about the issue and he chose to make no changes.


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## kenyaone (Jan 26, 2017)

kenyaone said:


> Even though the rate of incompatibility as a couple was dwindling fast,she acted in haste for seeking attention from his old aquitance. To my view all options of re igniting passion in their bedroom were not yet exhausted.
> 
> Sent from my TECNO-H3 using Tapatalk




Sent from my TECNO-H3 using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MrsAldi said:


> So her husband didn't lust after her and she felt rejected by him.
> Understandable but she could have talked with him instead of giving into temptation.


Apparently she did talk to her husband about it. 



katiecrna said:


> They had great sex but it was only because she initiated, she told him about how it bothered her but he never changed or stuck to making more of an effort. She was getting denied a lot by him to the point of making her feel like a pervert. One day she initiated again and he snapped and said geez you need medication!


Sometimes a person can talk to their spouse about something that is a problem but the spouse just does not care to address the problem. I had that happen in my marriages. There is nothing you can do to make another person change when that person could care less about meeting your needs.

I'm not justifying her affair. But I thin it's important to recognize that she did talk to her husband about it and he refused to deal with the issue.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> And this is one of the reasons for breakups.Maybe if your friend had talked to her husband instead of "revealing"herself to you and probably a few more friends she wouldn't need to screw around on her husband and children.This always baffles me and was the cause of my own engagement ending,women telling their friends everything about their partners private lives and then can't understand why their partners pull away and refuse to communicate.She got caught,she didn't confess.You are painting a picture of some poor lost soul who was in such pain she could only relieve it by dropping her knickers for another man.Ffs she had four children,she must have been having some sex at least with the poor sap she left at home taking care of her kids while she fcuked around.




I don't mean to paint a picture of a poor lost soul. My point was, that marriage is hard. And there is so much deep emotional feelings within you that can be really cultivated by your spouse, or damaged and messed up by your spouse. Her self esteem took a hit obviously, I mean marriage is tough you guys. throwing yourself at your spouse and being denied over and over can mess you up. I'm sure a lot of men understand this. But it's a little different with women because we all know men are visual creatures and it hurts to put on lingerie and be denied. And to be denied over and over again I personally couldn't imagine feeling good about myself. 

Cheating is wrong. Period. But I'm just saying I get why some people cheat, it's sad. She loves her husband and it wasn't worth divorcing him and ruining a family. But people have needs. She did what she did, she took a risk and cheated and she got caught. It's up to the spouse to decide if it's worth staying with an adulterous women.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> The OP stated that her friend did talk to her husband about the issue and he chose to make no changes.




Correct. He was physically and legally married but he left the marriage emotionally, mentally, spiritually and sexually. 

He broke the marriage vows as much as she did.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

kenyaone said:


> Sent from my TECNO-H3 using Tapatalk


Absolutely without a doubt.

doesnt negate the fact he was a fool and a bum for treating his wife
like yesterdays garbage.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> The OP stated that her friend did talk to her husband about the issue and he chose to make no changes.




She was at school, the kids were at school or their grandparents house.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

katiecrna said:


> She has talked to her husband multiple times about their sex life, there was no secret there. What do you do when you talked to your husband about not being happy with your sex life, wanting him to initiate more and he doesn't change. I get that she is 100% wrong. But when he snapped at her and told her she needs to be put on medication because she tried to initiate sex from her husband who she loves and is super attracted to and they haven't had sex in months... I mean he said that like there is something wrong with her. You needs meds? Really because I want to have sex with my husband?
> 
> They went to therapy. They decided to stay together. This happened last year, she told me this week for the first time. Their marriage is still a struggle, and their sex life is still absent and pretty much the same as before.


I've seen threads on TAM in which men are in the situation that your friend is in, and posters have told the guy that they would not blame him if he cheated.

What do you think the chances are that your friend will end up divorcing her husband? I would think it is high. He clearly had no intent of meeting her needs, never has apparently.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> ...she is so in love with her husband...


:lol: :rofl:


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Their life is really hard. They are struggling, and just hearing the stories from her stresses me out. They are both working SO hard, and trying to be the best parents to their 4 young kids that they are exhausted all the time. It's hard for me to relate to her but I feel bad for both of them. And he's probably 45 and I'm sure he is exhausted at the end of the day that the though of sex is crazy to him. 

It's just a different kind of life that I'm not use to. They made bad decisions and are doing the best they can do deal with those decisions that they are just keeping their head above water. And there is nothing sexy, relaxing, good about living a life like that, that is a constant struggle. Eventually when the kids get older it will be better I'm sure. Who knows. Marriage is hard, and it's tougher when life is hard.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> My friend disclosed to me recently that she had a 6 month affair. She was caught and they are dealing with the consequences. I am 100% against affairs, but when she told me about it I couldn't help feel so sorry for her. (Yes she was wrong and I feel bad for him obviously, but I know her on a personal level and she is so in love with her husband and works her butt off to be a good mother/wife/provider).
> 
> They have 4 kids. She is beautiful and cares about her looks. She works full time plus goes to school full time, he works full time also. She had always told me since I've known her that she always initiates sex. They had great sex but it was only because she initiated, she told him about how it bothered her but he never changed or stuck to making more of an effort. She was getting denied a lot by him to the point of making her feel like a pervert. One day she initiated again and he snapped and said geez you need medication! After that something in her died. The next day when she ran into an old friend that he hasn't seen in a while, and she said... Katie, he looked at me in a way that I haven't been looked at in a long time. I don't know why but this broke my heart. And that was the beginning of their affair.
> 
> I know that this goes both ways, male and female. But I think it's so easy to become "roommates" and have such a routine life with each other that we often forget to look at our spouse as our beautiful, sexy, playmates so to speak. We just become moms and dads and whatever. As a women I know it's so important to feel desired and hot by my husband. Idk where I am going with this but I think it's a common problem with marriages... we stop dating each other.


While I agree with your thoughts on dating our spouses, she had an obligation to stand up to her husband and confront him with the issues that were going on instead of throwing away the dignity of wife and mother for the dubious title of slvt or cheap piece of ass.

Very sorry she chose to shyt on her family and herself that way and sorry that she didn't deal with her marital problems like an adult.

All marriages and people have rough spots and imperfections. How would she like it if when she wasn't the best wife in the world, he started nailing a coworker for six months?

Butt stupid.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> :lol: :rofl:


My thoughts exactly!

Define love and I doubt you will see fvcking someone else for six months until caught in the definition.

It is very clear she loved herself and her crotch a bit more than her husband and children there.

Love is actions and hers showed contempt and hatred towards her husband and children.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> She has talked to her husband multiple times about their sex life, there was no secret there. What do you do when you talked to your husband about not being happy with your sex life, wanting him to initiate more and he doesn't change.


That's great. I didn't ask that. I asked a specific question or two about this. She did right if she talked with him. My questions are not to determine right or wrong. They were to determine patterns of behavior in her life. 





katiecrna said:


> I get that she is 100% wrong. But when he snapped at her and told her she needs to be put on medication because she tried to initiate sex from her husband who she loves and is super attracted to and they haven't had sex in months... I mean he said that like there is something wrong with her. You needs meds? Really because I want to have sex with my husband?



She isn't 100% wrong. She is 100% right for who she is. It's 100% wrong for me to have an affair. 

It's damn hard for me to explain my view. 

Her husband was way wrong to say that to her. It was hurtful and really for many women and possibly men, it's harmful. Harmful is abusive. Emotional plus verbal? I'm not sure. Doesn't matter how I define it. I know it's wrong and worthy of a hell of a talking to and some consideration of IC.

However, if he thinks she needs meds, it may be due to her coming into peri-menopause when her drive soars. It isn't wrong, but most men will not understand it at all. They will have no clue what is going on, and the woman going through it may not even realize how high her drive is compared to what it used to be. 





katiecrna said:


> They went to therapy. They decided to stay together. This happened last year, she told me this week for the first time. Their marriage is still a struggle, and their sex life is still absent and pretty much the same as before.


So, have you come here to assuage your guilt over something, to get ideas of how to cope with something you are confused about how to feel and where to place your allegiance, all of the above or something else?

I doubt you are here for her, but you might send along a thought or two you picked up from TAM members. Right?

So, how can anyone offer you or her help, if you are unable provide answers?

If you just want to see your words in writing to help figure out what you are thinking. I understand. It's no problem.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> While I agree with your thoughts on dating our spouses, she had an obligation to stand up to her husband and confront him with the issues that were going on instead of throwing away the dignity of wife and mother for the dubious title of slvt or cheap piece of ass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




She did deal with her martial issues. She told her husband all about it multiple times. But her husband didn't deal with the issues like an adult. He was stubborn and didn't change, or put effort into his wife. 

She made a terrible decision to cheat. He made a terrible decision not to love and respect his wife. Both of them are wrong. It's easy to say it's all her fault Bc she cheated, but that's not fair. He neglected his wife even after she confronted him multiple times. Yes cheating is wrong. Yea this is 100% her deciding to cheat. But she felt like she did all she could do from her point of view except for begging him to sleep with her. She didn't want a divorce. Yes she never should of lied and cheated and continued to do it for 6months. But he is not innocent at all.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> The OP stated that her friend did talk to her husband about the issue and he chose to make no changes.


So her answer was to jump into bed with the FIRST guy who gave her a second glance.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> She has talked to her husband multiple times about their sex life, there was no secret there. What do you do when you talked to your husband about not being happy with your sex life, wanting him to initiate more and he doesn't change. I get that she is 100% wrong. But when he snapped at her and told her she needs to be put on medication because she tried to initiate sex from her husband who she loves and is super attracted to and they haven't had sex in months... I mean he said that like there is something wrong with her. You needs meds? Really because I want to have sex with my husband?
> 
> They went to therapy. They decided to stay together. This happened last year, she told me this week for the first time. Their marriage is still a struggle, and their sex life is still absent and pretty much the same as before.


No sex is a good reason to divorce in my book.

Not cheat.

She should have let him know that they were bound for divorce if they weren't able to work their marital, sex, issues out.

She chose to be a dipshyt instead and fvcking someone else for six months doesn't actually endear your spouse to be attracted to you sexually.

Actually has the opposite effect.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> That's great. I didn't ask that. I asked a specific question or two about this. She did right if she talked with him. My questions are not to determine right or wrong. They were to determine patterns of behavior in her life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Geez your getting a little nutty...

My point was to bring to discussion what I learned about my friend. It's not about right or wrong, and I think my post is clear about it. I understand both sides, there isn't always one wrong side and that's my point. Marriage is hard, life is hard. It's not all one sided. 

No she hasn't had any previous issues to radical behavior. She is a nice hard working super calm and patient women. No she is not menopausal. She is 40. 

I have no guilt over anything and for you to infer that is not only offensive but weird. People like you wish there was 1 person to blame, 1 side, 1 truth. But my whole point was that there are 2 sides to every story. Yes she was wrong, but so was he. She isn't a Terrible person like many people want to believe people who have affairs are. Yes affairs are terrible, but life is not black and white.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Well she cheated on a husband who apparently couldn't cope with the pressures of marriage. That is the summary of what you said. Now moving forward:

How did she get caught ?


What happened when she got caught ? Did she deny, trickle truth, gaslight, rewrite marital history or all of the above ?


What has she donesince to make things right ?


Has she now provided all the details and truth ?


Has she admitted to have really enjoyed the sex which (being illicit and carefree sex) was fantastic ?


Did she admit to her husband that it was better than the sex she had with her husband ?


Did she admit that she had feelings for the other guy (6 month affair after all) and that they haven't gone away and also, throughout the affair she felt she needed to stay true to the POSOM rather than her husband sexually ?


Was the POSOM married and if so, has his wife been told ?


Did her husband wreak havoc on the POSOM ?


Has the affair been exposed ? Do her kids know ?


What made her husband stay in the marriage or lets use the vernacular here, "reconcile" ?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> She has talked to her husband multiple times about their sex life, there was no secret there. What do you do when you talked to your husband about not being happy with your sex life, wanting him to initiate more and he doesn't change.


"Honey, I'm tired of this, and I won't live this way any more. So you have three options...

1) Improved sex life
2) Open marriage
3) Divorce

Your move."

Any of their talks look anything like ^that^?


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

He found out through her email. He came to her work and confronted her. (In front of all of us). They went outside and talked about it. She didn't deny it. She gave up her phone for him to see. They went to marriage counseling. And are not longer going. (The affair was a year ago). She doesn't want to divorce. He doesn't want to divorce either. That's all I know. Except, her sex life with him is unchanged.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> Geez your getting a little nutty...
> 
> My point was to bring to discussion what I learned about my friend. It's not about right or wrong, and I think my post is clear about it. I understand both sides, there isn't always one wrong side and that's my point. Marriage is hard, life is hard. It's not all one sided.
> 
> ...


Was the other man in the affair with this loving wife/mother /provider a married man and did he have children.Or would it have mattered to her anyway.Who is the main earner in this marriage and did that have any part to play in her not wanting to leave.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> He found out through her email. *He came to her work and confronted her. (In front of all of us).* They went outside and talked about it. She didn't deny it. She gave up her phone for him to see. They went to marriage counseling. And are not longer going. (The affair was a year ago). She doesn't want to divorce. He doesn't want to divorce either. That's all I know. Except, her sex life with him is unchanged.


LOL... damn!


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> "Honey, I'm tired of this, and I won't live this way any more. So you have three options...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Her talks like this.... honey I'm tired of being the only one initiating. It makes me feel like you don't love me. Are you even attracted to me because I don't feel like you are. 

I'm unhappy with our sex life. It's been months and I can't take it anymore. Are you not attracted to me anymore? 

Can we find more time for just you and me? We haven't had sex in months.

Every time she initiated he turned her down Bc he was to tired or not in the mood. Honey what can we do because there is obviously a problem here. He grunts, I'm doing the best I can, I'm just tired. Or relax geez. What's the matter with you? Stop I'm tired.


I don't know but I'm guessing she didn't want to give her husband an ultimatum as a way to con him into having sex with her when he clearly doesn't want to. She was already peer pressuring him which didn't make her feel good. She was thinking that the two of them are just too busy and too stressed out with 4 kids that thats the reason why he couldn't have sex with her at this time. She didn't want a divorce, she thought this was just a situational problem that would resolve itself once they were able to become less busy (when the kids got older).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> She did deal with her martial issues. She told her husband all about it multiple times. But her husband didn't deal with the issues like an adult. He was stubborn and didn't change, or put effort into his wife.
> 
> She made a terrible decision to cheat. He made a terrible decision not to love and respect his wife. Both of them are wrong. It's easy to say it's all her fault Bc she cheated, but that's not fair. He neglected his wife even after she confronted him multiple times. Yes cheating is wrong. Yea this is 100% her deciding to cheat. But she felt like she did all she could do from her point of view except for begging him to sleep with her. She didn't want a divorce. Yes she never should of lied and cheated and continued to do it for 6months. But he is not innocent at all.


No. She did not deal with it like an adult. She deal with it like a slvt.

I already posted answering this but she should have started moving towards divorce if he wouldn't budge.

Sex is very necessary for marriage and depriving your mate is borderline abuse in my book.

He might have been starving the marriage but she blew it's fvcking brains out with what she did.

I hope they work it out but it doesn't sound good.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> Was the other man in the affair with this loving wife/mother /provider a married man and did he have children.Or would it have mattered to her anyway.Who is the main earner in this marriage and did that have any part to play in her not wanting to leave.



He was divorced. 
Why does who makes more money matter? She makes more. And again she doesn't want to leave because she loves him. She would much rather sleep with her husband than the other guy.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> No. She did not deal with it like an adult. She deal with it like a slvt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I disagree. There are times when life is really busy and sex isn't the priority. All you have to do it get through the bump in the road. Just because your marriage is sexless right now doesn't mean it will be the next 50 years. People can't leave when there are bumps in the road. When you have 4 small kids and both work full time... trust me sex will decrease. Doesn't mean it will stay low forever.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

He did what he did and it damaged the marriage. She did what she did and it damaged the marriage. Like another poster said, they both broke marriage vows. It's interesting that we are partial and are more angry when a certain vow is broken more than another vow.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Stay compassionate @katiecrna, we hand out our own rewards or punishments when we judge too deeply and forgetting our own flaws... keep kicking the stones out of your way.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> *Geez your getting a little nutty...*
> 
> My point was to bring to discussion what I learned about my friend. It's not about right or wrong, and I think my post is clear about it. I understand both sides, there isn't always one wrong side and that's my point. Marriage is hard, life is hard. It's not all one sided.
> 
> ...



I haven't posted anything one sided in this thread. In fact, I was quite balanced in my responses. 

I made no claims on whether she worked hard or not. I didn't ask what she did for a living. I don't know if I even care.


When you say "menopausal", do you mean she has not started to have cycles out of her normal timing? Do you simply mean she still gets her period, whether on time or at differing intervals? 



It isn't strange to ask questions to clarify and prevent misunderstandings.

It gives me a bad gut feeling when I get a response like this. 



So, your purpose for coming here was to make a case for her innocence due to her perception of her marriage? 

No problem. I understand.


I was clear, logical, and respectful. I made no inferences, but asked questions for clarification. 


Please don't call me names like "weird" and "nutty". I find that offensive and incorrect.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

What medications is he prescribed by his doctor?


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> I haven't posted anything one sided in this thread. In fact, I was quite balanced in my responses.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Your asking me details about my friends menstrual cycle like this is a critical piece in the puzzle. It's not. 

My friend is not innocent, I never said this. I just think some people hear cheating/adultery and they want to crucify the person and paint them to be an evil sl*t of a person, when this isn't always the case. People make mistakes. Good, loving people make mistakes. People do stupid and bad things, doesn't mean they are stupid and bad. She acted stupid and selfishly and she is the first to admit it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> He did what he did and it damaged the marriage. She did what she did and it damaged the marriage. Like another poster said, they both broke marriage vows. It's interesting that we are partial and are more angry when a certain vow is broken more than another vow.


It is funny that you can't see the difference between a sexual desert in your marriage and letting another man paint your cervix for six months.

That happy shyt probably sealed their fate.

He seems out to lunch and disconnected anyway but if he is still denying her sex than there really isn't a chance.

Denying sex, unless there is a serious reason, is abusive.

Cheating is flat out murder to a marriage. Was she ever going to quit?


----------



## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> He found out through her email. He came to her work and confronted her. (In front of all of us). They went outside and talked about it. She didn't deny it. She gave up her phone for him to see. They went to marriage counseling. And are not longer going. (The affair was a year ago). She doesn't want to divorce. He doesn't want to divorce either. That's all I know. Except, her sex life with him is unchanged.


She should D before dropping an A bomb on the marriage.

Did she get tested for stds? Did she fall in love with the OM? are any of her kids not her H's kids? Now if she cheated once, he will think it is not the only time. He will DNA the kids.

Before she cheats again, have her get a D. or go to affair recovery.com. 

sometimes the new man is not great around her kids. She does need to think about the kids. She would not be while having an A.

Good luck to them. the H now has so much anger from the A, that he might not really find her attractive now.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> What medications is he prescribed by his doctor?




I don't get why your trying to find a reason for his lack of sex drive to prove her guilty. She is guilty. Very guilty! I don't care what kind of medication he is on, that's not the point of this. 

There are a lot of things people do, and medications they take, and diseases and problems they have that decrease your desire and ability to have sex. And they happen for both men and women. 

I am not saying he caused her to have an affair don't you get that? She had the affair because she choose to have sex with another man. But if he finds himself in a position where he can't satisfy his wife for whatever reason it being stress, medication, disease, or his d*ck is too small it doesn't matter what the reason is, if he finds himself in this situation then a serious conversation needs to take place, like I love you so much and I am sexually attracted to you but... 
this is not the case. He wasn't sensitive to her needs and he was very insulting to her to the point that he is saying she has a problem and there is something wrong with HER. That is not right. If he had a problem for whatever reason he should convey that to HER, and make it clear that it's him, and he's trying the best he can and if she could just hang in there and be patient or whatever. NOT make her feel like she is the problem.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

harrybrown said:


> She should D before dropping an A bomb on the marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




She doesn't like the guy at all. It was purely physical. She is for sure not in love with him. She really does love her husband even though no one will believe that it's true.

All her kids are with her husband. 

I didn't ask about the std testing but that's really between them.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> She doesn't like the guy at all. It was purely physical. She is for sure not in love with him. She really does love her husband even though no one will believe that it's true.
> 
> All her kids are with her husband.
> 
> I didn't ask about the std testing but that's really between them.


If I was him I would dna test ALL of the kids,you only have her word for it that this is her first affair,she is so nonchalant I would think it's the first time she got caught.And this is bs that she doesn't even like the guy.That is just talk for her conscience and her husband should get std tested immediately because she sounds like a slvt.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

Love the double standard in this thread. In other threads, a man cheats when he is not getting sex he is a POS. A woman does the same...oh, the poor thing!


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

My husband has been sleep deprived many times and couldn't have sex. My husband was on beta-blockers and that messed with his erections. During these times, he made it very clear that it was him with the problem not me. Even though every girl feels kinda bad when their husband struggles to get it up. But my husband made it a point to reassure me that he loves me and finds me very attractive. Needless to say, he switched his medications because he couldn't take it anymore and there were no more problems. 

BUT her husband shamed her. Made her feel ugly, and crazy and perveted and said she needs medication. That is so crazy to me. Life happens... sometimes men cant perform for whatever reason and that's ok. You can't blame it on your spouse or shame your spouse it's messed up.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> *I don't get why your trying to find a reason for his lack of sex drive to prove her guilty*. She is guilty. Very guilty! I don't care what kind of medication he is on, that's not the point of this.
> 
> There are a lot of things people do, and medications they take, and diseases and problems they have that decrease your desire and ability to have sex. And they happen for both men and women.
> 
> ...



OMG! 

Edit: Forgot to add that I was initially trying to figure these below out for her, then I would move on to him. I was trying to figure out if her sex drive went up from peri. 

I was trying to help you figure out why his sex drive went down. Was it:

because he is on new meds which lower his libido

because he is older and low test issues have come up

because he is obese and/or has diabetes

Ruling out physical issues, I then hoped to rule out mental issues which may or may not include:

meds for depression/anxiety

meds for high blood pressure

meds for heart disease

Ruling out those issues, I would then look at his place in his life and marriage. 

See? I'd want to do something similar with her. My thoughts are not to prove guilt or innocence, but to look at the whole picture because to get to cheating is a long road, unless one is familiar with it. 

Hey, I got better things to do than to constantly explain myself. Good luck and I hope you can convince others how right it is to cheat in some instances. I don't really care about proving someone wrong in this instance. It's quite clear. However, that can be a reason for some to cheat. They have proven to themselves that something is true and cannot see beyond their own conclusions.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

EunuchMonk said:


> Love the double standard in this thread. In other threads, a man cheats when he is not getting sex he is a POS. A woman does the same...oh, the poor thing!




I don't think there is a double standard because everyone is crucifying her calling her a sl*t just like they would do with the man. 
Also I don't blame people for cheating, I get it, I understand why they do it. It's 100% wrong of course but I understand there is another side. It's up to the other person if they want to continue the marriage or end it. But the reality is, mistakes happen and it depends on how good the marriage was before whether the person will want to R vs D. 
Cheating is a sh*tty thing to do whether your a man or women period. But circumstances around it determine whether your going to forgive and try to get past it vs divorce. There are always 2 sides to every story. 

And btw her husband chose to forgive her also because he knew he was refusing sex with her for so long. And it put it effort to improve sex with him. It wasn't like she was cheating on him while refusing sex with her husband.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I don't think there is a double standard because everyone is crucifying her calling her a sl*t just like they would do with the man.
> Also I don't blame people for cheating, I get it, I understand why they do it. It's 100% wrong of course but I understand there is another side. It's up to the other person if they want to continue the marriage or end it. But the reality is, mistakes happen and it depends on how good the marriage was before whether the person will want to R vs D.
> Cheating is a sh*tty thing to do whether your a man or women period. But circumstances around it determine whether your going to forgive and try to get past it vs divorce. There are always 2 sides to every story.
> 
> And btw her husband chose to forgive her also because he knew he was refusing sex with her for so long. And it put it effort to improve sex with him. It wasn't like she was cheating on him while refusing sex with her husband.


No, the male posters are crucifying her calling her a ****. The female poster, at least most of them, are quite sympathic. They are like, "hey, **** happens". Subtle but it is there. If the roles were reversed it would be, "See she forgave and stayed with him after his shenanigans. What a good wife. That dog doesn't deserve her!"

A person can contribute to a bad marriage, never to an affair. The affair is on the person who did it, no one else. I don't care if he is boxing you up and down. You can leave! C'mon people we have to be consistent in our advice both to male and female.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I don't think there is a double standard because everyone is crucifying her calling her a sl*t just like they would do with the man.
> Also I don't blame people for cheating, I get it, I understand why they do it. It's 100% wrong of course but I understand there is another side. It's up to the other person if they want to continue the marriage or end it. But the reality is, mistakes happen and it depends on how good the marriage was before whether the person will want to R vs D.
> Cheating is a sh*tty thing to do whether your a man or women period. But circumstances around it determine whether your going to forgive and try to get past it vs divorce. There are always 2 sides to every story.
> 
> And btw her husband chose to forgive her also because he knew he was refusing sex with her for so long. And it put it effort to improve sex with him. It wasn't like she was cheating on him while refusing sex with her husband.


You are correct,there are two sides two every story.It's just the side you have been fed strikes most men on this thread as complete bs.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> OMG!
> 
> Edit: Forgot to add that I was initially trying to figure these below out for her, then I would move on to him. I was trying to figure out if her sex drive went up from peri.
> 
> ...




I clearly understood what you were trying to do but you aren't getting my point. 

1. There is no excuse to shame your spouse, or make them feel bad about themselves when they are trying to have sex with you. 
2. There is no excuse for cheating.

I'm not saying she is innocent or that it's ok to cheat I don't understand why your trying to say I am. I'm saying I understand why people cheat. I am saying that he is wrong just like she is. But everyone wants to crucify her and not him. Like one vow is more important than the other. 

Who cares if he has a low libido or whatever, does that make it ok to insult his wife when she is trying to have sex with him? No. Who cares if he can't always get an erection, does that mean it's ok for her to cheat on him? No.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EunuchMonk said:


> No, the male posters are crucifying her calling her a ****. The female poster, at least most of them, are quite sympathic. They are like, "hey, **** happens". Subtle but it is there. If the roles were reversed it would be, "See she forgave and stayed with him after his shenanigans. What a good wife. That dog doesn't deserve her!"
> 
> A person can contribute to a bad marriage, never to an affair. The affair is on the person who did it, no one else. I don't care if he is boxing you up and down. You can leave! C'mon people we have to be consistent in our advice both to male and female.


Many of us are and I actually advocate more women to leave their husbands than vice versa.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EunuchMonk said:


> Love the double standard in this thread. In other threads, a man cheats when he is not getting sex he is a POS. A woman does the same...oh, the poor thing!


I've seen plenty of threads on TAM telling a man that it's ok to go outside the marriage for sex if his wife is withholding sex. I've never seen any thread on TAM saying it's ok for a woman to do this.

Not one person on this thread is saying that her affair was ok.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I've seen plenty of threads on TAM telling a man that it's ok to go outside the marriage for sex if his wife is withholding sex. I've never seen any thread on TAM saying it's ok for a woman to do this.
> 
> Not one person on this thread is saying that her affair was ok.


They are sympathizing. Which is more sympathy than I expect a man to get. It is subtle but it there. I would appreciate it if you could share said threads. Thank you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> I clearly understood what you were trying to do but you aren't getting my point.
> 
> 1. There is no excuse to shame your spouse, or make them feel bad about themselves when they are trying to have sex with you.
> 2. There is no excuse for cheating.
> ...


That is a big reason why this farce won't work.

He still isn't having sex with her. Now comparing him starving her to her fvcking around is not the same and that is where you are pissing a few people off.

She might not have wanted a divorce so becoming a slvt was a more acceptable option?

She still has a dead marriage and her infidelity will only add to the sexual dysfunction of their marriage.

They obviously haven't worked through the issues if he is still not having sex with her a year later.

I think they are cooked.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

Miss Independent said:


> I was banned last month for telling a female poster that it was understandable that her husband cheated on her.
> 
> The same advice applies to this case.
> 
> ...



I stand corrected.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> That is a big reason why this farce won't work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I don't know if their marriage will last or not. 

The word slvt is really bothering me though. I hate that word. 

Maybe he really is the problem and doesn't want to have sex with her. Who knows. The marriage may or may not work out, the affair may or may not be the cause of the failed marriage. His inability to have sex with his wife may or may not be the cause of the failed marriage. Nobody knows. There are a lot of people in miserable, sexless marriages... but because they aren't divorced does this mean that their marriage is successful because it didn't "fail". What we see in the outside doesn't always reflect what a relationship is really like.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Miss Independent said:


> I was banned last month for telling a female poster that it was understandable that her husband cheated on her.
> 
> The same advice applies to this case.
> 
> ...




You broke the First Commandment of TAM. 

Thou shall not tell the OP they deserved to be cheated on. 

But we can tell the OP it is understandable that they cheated.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> The word slvt is really bothering me though. I hate that word.


As you should. It is descriptive of someone behaving in a disgusting and shameful way.

I actually hate the actions of your friend far more than any descriptive term.

I can guaranty they will not make it based on your information.

He will not give her sex and cruelly rejects her, she turns into a slvt, hateful term that accurately describes her actions, and gets caught after six months of adulterous sex with a man she claims to not even like. Yuk btw.

They go to counseling and a year later he is still not having sex with her?

They are done with a capital "D"!

If he wanted to reconcile with her, he needed to send her to work bowlegged more days than not. 

She can hope all she wants but he wasn't doing what he needed to do before her affair and he isn't doing it now.

I do absolutely agree with you about not taking your spouse for granted and your illustration about your friend is a cautionary tale.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

If she is 'so in love with her husband' as you said, she would not cheat on him at all, let alone cheat, lie and deceive him for 6 months. 
I am amazed that he can trust her again.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I don't think there is a double standard because everyone is crucifying her calling her a sl*t just like they would do with the man.
> Also I don't blame people for cheating, I get it, I understand why they do it. It's 100% wrong of course but I understand there is another side. It's up to the other person if they want to continue the marriage or end it. But the reality is, mistakes happen and it depends on how good the marriage was before whether the person will want to R vs D.
> Cheating is a sh*tty thing to do whether your a man or women period. But circumstances around it determine whether your going to forgive and try to get past it vs divorce. There are always 2 sides to every story.
> 
> And btw her husband chose to forgive her also because he knew he was refusing sex with her for so long. And it put it effort to improve sex with him. It wasn't like she was cheating on him while refusing sex with her husband.


Not sure I would call a 6 month affair a 'mistake'. It was a choice she made over a long period of time to cheat again and again and again.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

EunuchMonk said:


> No, the male posters are crucifying her calling her a ****. The female poster, at least most of them, are quite sympathic. They are like, "hey, **** happens". Subtle but it is there. If the roles were reversed it would be, "See she forgave and stayed with him after his shenanigans. What a good wife. That dog doesn't deserve her!"
> 
> A person can contribute to a bad marriage, never to an affair. The affair is on the person who did it, no one else. I don't care if he is boxing you up and down. You can leave! C'mon people we have to be consistent in our advice both to male and female.


As a female I am not in the least sympathetic towards anyone who cheats, male or female. Both are equally selfish and equally cruel. 
I am amazed that he stayed, not sure how he can ever believe a thing she says again after 6 months of lies and deception. I couldn't.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> He found out through her email. He came to her work and confronted her. (In front of all of us). They went outside and talked about it. She didn't deny it. She gave up her phone for him to see. They went to marriage counseling. And are not longer going. (The affair was a year ago). She doesn't want to divorce. He doesn't want to divorce either. That's all I know. Except, her sex life with him is unchanged.


 I am not surprised it hasn't changed, how could anyone have sex with their spouse again after they had sex multiple times with someone else? I couldnt.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I am not surprised it hasn't changed, how could anyone have sex with their spouse again after they had sex multiple times with someone else? I couldnt.


This is such a major problem in cases where there wasn't sexual dysfunction before the affair but in this case there was already major sexual dysfunction before.

I mostly feel for the children. They deserved more from their parents.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> He did what he did and it damaged the marriage. She did what she did and it damaged the marriage. Like another poster said, they both broke marriage vows. It's interesting that we are partial and are more angry when a certain vow is broken more than another vow.


What vow did he break? All marriages have times when one or both is less interested in sex. One of those times is when you have small children and they have 4! Their lives are hectic and busy, he is probably tired and worn out and stressed. 
You do not chase after someone else every time you hit a bad patch in the marriage. 
She had a very long affair with another man. She lied, she deceived, she risked destroying her family and deeply hurting her children, she slept with the OM countless times over 6 months. It wasn't a once off mistake in the heat of the moment, but a cold calculated decision she made every time they had sex. 
If she works so hard and has 4 small children, how did she get the time or energy to meet this man time and time again? 

To try and compare the 2 things is crazy.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> This is such a major problem in cases where there wasn't sexual dysfunction before the affair but in this case there was already major sexual dysfunction before.
> 
> I mostly feel for the children. They deserved more from their parents.


I agree, its always the children who suffer when there is an affair. People are so very selfish sometimes.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Unfortunately your friends actions are like the person whose house has a broken pipe and they decided to set it on fire. She just took what was maybe a workable problem and turned it into what very well might be a death sentence or at least the death of the marriage they had, maybe they didn't have a great one, but like did she think how this would effect the kids. Man was that some poor decision making. Plus she gave away her honor and the high road she had. Now just trying to R all the issues will be about the affair. Plus do you think the guy is going to want to have sex with her now?

Truthfully sounds like divorces is where they were headed and she just wanted to blow it up. What did she thing was going to happen? 

I can't agree that she loved as much as you say, she didn't love him more then her orgasms. Really the affair was an exit one or done out of malice. An affair is like the inverse of falling in love. Also it's not like she went to a male prostitute to just get off. I am sure there was some sort of emotion component to it. You and especially your friend would do better to be honest about this stuff and what really went on. 

Sad thing is doesn't sound like they have much to work with. Maybe divorce in there case would be a good thing. She can go off and find someone sexually attracted to her and he can do whatever he wants. What is the point of staying married at this point except guilt?


On another note -



> I've seen threads on TAM in which men are in the situation that your friend is in, and posters have told the guy that they would not blame him if he cheated.


 @EleGirl you can't be saying just because some male posters misguidedly suggest having affairs when there wives don't have sex with them that makes it alright the women do it can you? Wrong it wrong right? I mean isn't it better that right and wrong doesn't have a gender or does bad behavior justify others bad behavior with you depending on if you are of the same sex as the offender?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sokillme said:


> @EleGirl you can't be saying just because some male posters misguidedly suggest having affairs when there wives don't have sex with them that makes it alright the women do it can you? Wrong it wrong right? I mean isn't it better that right and wrong doesn't have a gender or does bad behavior justify others bad behavior with you depending on if you are of the same sex as the offender?


Of course that's not what I'm saying. I really helps to actually look at the post that I was replying to. If you do that, you just might understand the context of my post. Geez


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> He did what he did and it damaged the marriage. She did what she did and it damaged the marriage. Like another poster said, they both broke marriage vows. It's interesting that we are partial and are more angry when a certain vow is broken more than another vow.


I'm sorry what marriage vow is said about guaranteeing sex? Please fill me in because I don't remember one at least not in the ones I took. So what if he had and accident, or got sick, would it be wrong then?

Besides all that she let someone else in the marriage now. At this point the person will always be there. That is the biggest issue. What she did never fully goes away. They will have to accept a marriage that in some ways is diminished. There is also no guarantee this will fix his issue and will probably exacerbate them. For instance if he was having problems with confidence I doubt this will help that. 

I think a lot of us are thinking she took a stick of dynamite to a fixable problem. It's just so sad. 

Saying all that, I think you probably agree so I am not sure what you are looking for here? You know you friend probably blew it up, I really don't think there is much you can say to her at this point. I mean maybe talk to her about her judgment. The other thing is it was a very selfish thing to do more so because of the kids. I mean I divorce is one thing, but this will now create issues for the kids now too they will grow up with there mother and father in the middle of this mess. One day they are going to find out there Mom was an adulterer. How do you think that will that affect the boys (if she has them) relationship with women? Your friend needs some help I think, because her thinking was very short sighted. 

sigh


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> She doesn't like the guy at all. It was purely physical. She is for sure not in love with him. She really does love her husband even though no one will believe that it's true.
> 
> All her kids are with her husband.
> 
> I didn't ask about the std testing but that's really between them.


She may love her husband with all her heart but if she is going to other men when she is dissatisfied with him (even if she has every right to be) what is her love worth? Not much. I mean I say this all the time here, love is not enough. There is so much to good relationships then love. People get married without love and can end up having a happy loving relationship, because of there actions. In the same respect you can have lots of love, but your actions are much more dependent on if you have a good relationship or not.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I don't think there is a double standard because everyone is crucifying her calling her a sl*t just like they would do with the man.
> Also I don't blame people for cheating, I get it, I understand why they do it. It's 100% wrong of course but I understand there is another side. It's up to the other person if they want to continue the marriage or end it. But the reality is, mistakes happen and it depends on how good the marriage was before whether the person will want to R vs D.
> Cheating is a sh*tty thing to do whether your a man or women period. But circumstances around it determine whether your going to forgive and try to get past it vs divorce. There are always 2 sides to every story.
> 
> And btw her husband chose to forgive her also because he knew he was refusing sex with her for so long. And it put it effort to improve sex with him. It wasn't like she was cheating on him while refusing sex with her husband.


I take it you have never been cheated on right? At least not by someone you had given your whole future to.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I'm sorry what marriage vow is sad about guaranteeing sex? Please fill me in because I don't remember one at least not in the ones I took. So what if he had and accident, or got sick, would it be wrong then?
> 
> Besides all that she let someone else in the marriage now. At this point the person will always be there. That is the biggest issue. What she did never fully goes away. They will have to accept a marriage that in some ways is diminished. There is also no guarantee this will fix his issue and will probably exacerbate them. For instance if he was having problems with confidence I doubt this will help that.
> 
> ...


I think Kat was trying to share a cautionary tale. Not get advice, which is near impossible on CWI, but encourage people to work on marriages.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> The word slvt is really bothering me though. I hate that word.


Adulterer?

I think what a lot of the posters are reacting to is when you are cheated on there is a level of destruction that is almost like emotional amputation. It is a degradation of your soul. Those of us who have been through it know that this kind of thing really changes you as a person. It removes all of your innocence. After it happened to me I was never able to have that kind of innocent love that I had with my first love. My feelings about love changed, love became a little more practical and a little less idealistic. Now maybe in some ways that was a good thing. I think the world is such that that innocent love isn't really practical. But I AM envious of those who have it for their whole lives.

I am sorry but when you have been through it this is very different then being told you are gross because you want to have sex. 

But then it sounds like you have never gone through this so how could you know.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EunuchMonk said:


> They are sympathizing. Which is more sympathy than I expect a man to get. It is subtle but it there. I would appreciate it if you could share said threads. Thank you.


I have to say personally I *can't *understand how anyone can cheat, man or women. I think my attitude on this is pretty clear on this subject, and there are plenty of female posters on here who see it exactly my way. However to @EleGirl's point I have seen female posters advocate for men to cheat when they are in a sexless marriage.

There are definitely posters on here who are gender biased though, on both sides. 

Anyway all this talk of guys and girls takes away from this threads purpose. 

*Now lets talk about R and how it is mostly pointless, #Quality are you around?* (that was a joke :corkysm60


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Okay, so your friend is like me. I love my wife dearly but she simply has no real sex drive. I have been turned down many times, but I love her dearly. 

So, if I cheat on her can I come here and get some sympathy from you? 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> Okay, so your friend is like me. I love my wife dearly but she simply has no real sex drive. I have been turned down many times, but I love her dearly.
> 
> So, if I cheat on her can I come here and get some sympathy from you?
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk




Yea if you paint a convincing picture I probably will. I'm an emotional sucka


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I have to say personally I *can't *understand how anyone can cheat, man or women. I think my attitude on this is pretty clear on this subject, and there are plenty of female posters on here who see it exactly my way. However to @EleGirl's point I have seen female posters advocate for men to cheat when they are in a sexless marriage.
> 
> There are definitely posters on here who are gender biased though, on both sides.
> 
> ...


Funny!😁 But reconciliation isn't always pointless and is often a healthy option.

Trust me in that I am hard as hell on infidelity and cheaters but it isn't without the purpose of reformation.

Sometimes that reformation works well with reconciliation for both the WS and BS.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I've never really been cheated on. Well my husband did kiss another women last year... or she kissed him but that's it.

I've been with a man that doesn't change regardless of how much you ask him so maybe I am understanding where she is coming from. Of course this does not justify cheating. But I'm just saying.... when you talk to your spouse over and over again about the same thing and he doesn't change it's really hard too. It's a different type of disrespect and hurt but it's different than cheating because everyone curses the cheater like they are the devil. I don't know how to explain it... she just wanted attention and effort from her husband and didn't get it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> I've never really been cheated on. Well my husband did kiss another women last year... or she kissed him but that's it.
> 
> I've been with a man that doesn't change regardless of how much you ask him so maybe I am understanding where she is coming from. Of course this does not justify cheating. But I'm just saying.... when you talk to your spouse over and over again about the same thing and he doesn't change it's really hard too. It's a different type of disrespect and hurt but it's different than cheating because everyone curses the cheater like they are the devil. I don't know how to explain it... she just wanted attention and effort from her husband and didn't get it.


I hear you but she took an unhealthy marriage and straight up killed it.

Is becoming a ---- for a scumbag she didn't even like better than moving for divorce?

Not in my book. She wanted her cake and to eat it as well.

She didn't want to make hard choices about her marriage and so she made easy, s----y choices and thought she could have it both ways.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Funny!&#55357;&#56833; But reconciliation isn't always pointless and is often a healthy option.
> 
> Trust me in that I am hard as hell on infidelity and cheaters but it isn't without the purpose of reformation.
> 
> Sometimes that reformation works well with reconciliation for both the WS and BS.


Dude that was a joke, are you new here? Quality and I have a running debate all over this place about that. I am as tired of it as I am sure everyone else is here. Even I don't really believe it is always pointless (I find people rarely get when you are using hyperbole to make a point). No it's just mostly pointless. I actually believe much more in divorce and starting over. But lets just end this talk now before Quality shows up and tells me I have no point of reference, I should shut up, asks the moderators to ban me, while finally telling me I am against God and don't deserve his benevolence. >


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Dude that was a joke, are you new here? Quality and I have a running debate all over this place about that. I am as tired of it as I am sure everyone else is here. Even I don't really believe it is always pointless (I find people rarely get when you are using hyperbole to make a point). No it's just mostly pointless. I actually believe much more in divorce and start over. But lets just end this talk now before Quality shows up and tells me I have no point of reference, I should shut up, asks the moderators to ban me, while finally telling me I am against God and don't deserve his benevolence. >


Actually, I thought your joke was genuinely funny, I am very aware of your conversations with Quality and I am relatively new to TAM for only being a member since 2013 with under 100,000 visits to my profile. 😉


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I've never really been cheated on. Well my husband did kiss another women last year... or she kissed him but that's it.
> 
> I've been with a man that doesn't change regardless of how much you ask him so maybe I am understanding where she is coming from. Of course this does not justify cheating. But I'm just saying.... when you talk to your spouse over and over again about the same thing and he doesn't change it's really hard too. It's a different type of disrespect and hurt but it's different than cheating because everyone curses the cheater like they are the devil. I don't know how to explain it... she just wanted attention and effort from her husband and didn't get it.


I am not sure if you read my post about what it feels like to be cheated on, but it is worse then being told you are ugly or the scum of the earth or not worthy of sex or any of that. Those are words, cheating is an action that pretty much reinforces and proves the words if that makes sense. I think that is why a lot of us are so repulsed by it. It really is one of those things in life that changes you as a person. Like a death. It's hard to explain when you haven't gone through it. 

Again it changed my views on life and love. I used to be a Disney love will conquers all type of person, soulmate all that stuff. I doubt anyone here would see me as that now. 

Anyway what your friends husband did was worthy of divorce and sucks. What your friend did will probably affect every relationship this man has for the rest of his life. I will probably affect his relationship with himself for the rest of his life. There just really is no comparison.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Actually, I thought your joke was genuinely funny, I am very aware of your conversations with Quality and I am relatively new to TAM for only being a member since 2013 with under 100,000 visits to my profile. &#55357;&#56841;


I know you're not new, also a joke. Most of the time I think we agree. You are just not as cynical as me yet, give it time, everyone comes to this view on there own pace. I rooting for you. :surprise:


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> But I'm just saying.... when you talk to your spouse over and over again about the same thing and he doesn't change it's really hard too. It's a different type of disrespect and hurt but it's different than cheating because everyone curses the cheater like they are the devil. I don't know how to explain it... she just wanted attention and effort from her husband and didn't get it.


And that contributed to her vulnerability. She was ripe for the first person who paid attention to her.

I am guessing she had the affair instead of divorcing in part because she did not want to upset the family structure? She appreciated having some of her own needs met while still getting to see her children every day?

If her husband does not change, I do not think there will be a happy ending to this story. Good thing she has a good job.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

TX-SC said:


> Okay, so your friend is like me. I love my wife dearly but she simply has no real sex drive. I have been turned down many times, but I love her dearly.
> 
> So, if I cheat on her can I come here and get some sympathy from you?
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


Ditto

My late wife was the same. I had chances, didn't take them. And I loved her until the day she died.

OP:

Did your friend ever say she knew it was wrong but did it anyway?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> They have 4 kids. She is beautiful and cares about her looks. She works full time plus goes to school full time, he works full time also. She had always told me since I've known her that she always initiates sex.


And now she has taken on a lover.

How does she find the time?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> My friend disclosed to me recently that she had a 6 month affair. She was caught and they are dealing with the consequences. I am 100% against affairs, but when she told me about it I couldn't help feel so sorry for her. (Yes she was wrong and I feel bad for him obviously, but I know her on a personal level and she is so in love with her husband and works her butt off to be a good mother/wife/provider).
> 
> They have 4 kids. She is beautiful and cares about her looks. She works full time plus goes to school full time, he works full time also. She had always told me since I've known her that she always initiates sex. They had great sex but it was only because she initiated, she told him about how it bothered her but he never changed or stuck to making more of an effort. She was getting denied a lot by him to the point of making her feel like a pervert. One day she initiated again and he snapped and said geez you need medication! After that something in her died. The next day when she ran into an old friend that he hasn't seen in a while, and she said... Katie, he looked at me in a way that I haven't been looked at in a long time. I don't know why but this broke my heart. And that was the beginning of their affair.
> 
> I know that this goes both ways, male and female. But I think it's so easy to become "roommates" and have such a routine life with each other that we often forget to look at our spouse as our beautiful, sexy, playmates so to speak. We just become moms and dads and whatever. As a women I know it's so important to feel desired and hot by my husband. Idk where I am going with this but I think it's a common problem with marriages... we stop dating each other.


Still no excuse to cheat. She gets rejected sure, but how much effort did she really put into trying to get him to hear her? If a man had done this, would you have been so sympathetic to his plight or rejection and lack of sex?


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

aine said:


> Still no excuse to cheat. She gets rejected sure, but how much effort did she really put into trying to get him to hear her? If a man had done this, would you have been so sympathetic to his plight or rejection and lack of sex?




It depends on the situation. Rejection is tough on anyone, especially men. I would be sympathetic to a man that kept getting rejected and kept trying and his wife insulted him and he spoke to her multiple times about his unhappiness from their sex life. 

Cheating is wrong period. But circumstances around it change how I feel about the situation. Justifying something doesn't make it right, but if I can understand it then I don't think the person is a complete a$$hole and heartless and I believe in R as a chance.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

MrsAldi said:


> So her husband didn't lust after her and she felt rejected by him.
> Understandable but she could have talked with him instead of giving into temptation.
> 
> Who was looking after the kids when she was with her AP?
> ...


As said she did talk to him and she was met with insults. Not really justifying the affair, but I don't blame her. Probably among the most impossible things to do is to talk somebody into ginning up their sex drive. You either have the hots for somebody or you don't. He doesn't and her talking did nothing but annoy him. 
Personally, its just a matter of time before she either leaves him or finds another lover. (With the kids, I'd recommend NSA relationship she can keep her mouth shut about. Three three things are necessary for a sustainable marriage, I'll call the marriage triangle. They are sex, communication, and money. If you remove any one of the legs are removed, it will eventually fail. She can prop the marriage up by finding someone else to fill his deficiency.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I believe that wrong is wrong and sin is sin. But I also believe that your heart and your intention matters too. Obviously she was being selfish and thinking about herself. But isn't there some sympathy on her part compared to the wife who cheats on her husband and keeps denying her husband sex and makes fun of him behind his back to the guy she's sleeping with? 

Like a guy that steals a car vs a guy that steals food to feed his hungry kids. Yea that's extreme but you know what I'm trying to get at. Are there levels of wrong?


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> I believe that wrong is wrong and sin is sin. But I also believe that your heart and your intention matters too. Obviously she was being selfish and thinking about herself. But isn't there some sympathy on her part compared to the wife who cheats on her husband and keeps denying her husband sex and makes fun of him behind his back to the guy she's sleeping with?
> 
> Like a guy that steals a car vs a guy that steals food to feed his hungry kids. Yea that's extreme but you know what I'm trying to get at. Are there levels of wrong?


If her husband had gone for D instead of R, and the 4 children were shuttled back and forth, what level of wrong would that make it?

He was a jerk, she was much worse.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> I believe that wrong is wrong and sin is sin. But I also believe that your heart and your intention matters too. Obviously she was being selfish and thinking about herself. But isn't there some sympathy on her part compared to the wife who cheats on her husband and keeps denying her husband sex and makes fun of him behind his back to the guy she's sleeping with?
> 
> Like a guy that steals a car vs a guy that steals food to feed his hungry kids. Yea that's extreme but you know what I'm trying to get at. Are there levels of wrong?


Again. She was a cake eating cheater.

She didn't want to make hard choices about her marriage or take adult actions.

She decided to keep her pathetically unsexual marriage and become a slvt for an assh0le to satisfy her want of sex.

I have zero sympathy for her because there is nothing dignified or admirable about her behavior in a tough marriage.

She should have made better choices. She is far from the first person in a sexless marriage and she won't be the last but she chose to harm her marriage, including her children, in an extremely pathetic and selfish manner.

She is apparently too stupid or weak to realize her marriage is a farce/ dead anyway.

If it was getting healthier, they would be having sex.

I feel sympathy for her kids, not her. The reason I don't feel a lot of sympathy for the husband is he apparently just wants a roommate to help him with the kids.

That is no marriage.

She is only a victim of her own disgusting actions.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> As said she did talk to him and she was met with insults. Not really justifying the affair, but I don't blame her. Probably among the most impossible things to do is to talk somebody into ginning up their sex drive. You either have the hots for somebody or you don't. He doesn't and her talking did nothing but annoy him.


I can sympathise with OPs friend, my own husband did reject me in the past and it was extremely hurtful. 
And I signed up for sex therapy. Try and try again. Marriage is hard work and requires patience, understanding and courage. 

Having sex with the first man who shows me attention, I don't see how that solves the original problem. 



> Personally, its just a matter of time before she either leaves him or finds another lover. (With the kids, I'd recommend NSA relationship she can keep her mouth shut about. Three three things are necessary for a sustainable marriage, I'll call the marriage triangle. They are sex, communication, and money. If you remove any one of the legs are removed, it will eventually fail. She can prop the marriage up by finding someone else to fill his deficiency.


Sorry, but I would fill the deficiency with something else other than a lover. If I had four children, I would endure and suffer for them. But I was raised traditional, just my opinion. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## curious234 (Jan 28, 2017)

did she tell you about the affair when it happened and was she remorseful that she had to do that


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

She told me a year after it happened. She was embarrassed to tell me and was super remorseful. She was ashamed for sure.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I believe that wrong is wrong and sin is sin. But I also believe that your heart and your intention matters too. Obviously she was being selfish and thinking about herself. But isn't there some sympathy on her part compared to the wife who cheats on her husband and keeps denying her husband sex and makes fun of him behind his back to the guy she's sleeping with?
> 
> Like a guy that steals a car vs a guy that steals food to feed his hungry kids. Yea that's extreme but you know what I'm trying to get at. Are there levels of wrong?


See I see this more like the guy who shots the store keeper and steals the food because of his hungry kids. The guy who steals food is like looking a porn in a sexless marriage. The guy who shoots the store keeper is having the affair in a sexless marriage. I think that is where you and many of the posters differ.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> She told me a year after it happened. She was embarrassed to tell me and was super remorseful. She was ashamed for sure.


She is right to feel ashamed she behaved shamefully.In your own words you admitted she slept with the FIRST man who looked at her,even though she admitted to hating him.Don't you realise what that makes her look like to everyone,other than you obviously.She is like a cat in heat and the first "Tom" she met gave her what she wanted.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I feel sympathy for her kids, not her. The reason I don't feel a lot of sympathy for the husband is he apparently just wants a roommate to help him with the kids.


Well maybe he is exhausted, I mean they have 4 kids and she apparently has time to have a 6 month affair, which leads me to believe he is basically doing all the work. No wonder he didn't want to have sex with her. It's not like at they weren't having sex at some point, they have 4 kids! So something happened to change that. Hmm lets guess. 

Her problem solving tends to show her as kind of a selfish person, so I suspect her selfishness is probably embedded in a lot of her actions that would affect their whole marriage. My suspicion is he got tired of her sh!t and was only really staying with her for the kids from the beginning. Maybe he doesn't really like her much let alone want to have sex with her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Well maybe he is exhausted, I mean they have 4 kids and she apparently has time to have a 6 month affair, which leads me to believe he is basically doing all the work. No wonder he didn't want to have sex with her. It's not like at they weren't having sex at some point, they have 4 kids! So something happened to change that. Hmm lets guess.
> 
> Her problem solving tends to show her as kind of a selfish person, so I suspect her selfishness is probably embedded in a lot of her actions that would affect their whole marriage. My suspicion is he got tired of her sh!t and was only really staying with her for the kids from the beginning. Maybe he doesn't really like her much let alone want to have sex with her.


Whatever his issues are, denying her sex then and now isn't helping the marriage.

I've been pointed about her. She should have moved for divorce.

But no way in hell would I put up with a sexless marriage either.

I wouldn't choose to cheat but I would move on.

I'm not taking anything away from her shameful behavior but he isn't all there to expect to deprive her of sex while rejecting her with cruelty and still have a marriage.

My wife ever behaves like that and the next thing she knows will be a process server introducing themselves to her.

They need to change their lifestyle if it is getting in the way of sex or they might as well be roommates and babysitters.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

aine said:


> Still no excuse to cheat. She gets rejected sure, but how much effort did she really put into trying to get him to hear her? If a man had done this, would you have been so sympathetic to his plight or rejection and lack of sex?


I have been sympathetic to men who have cheated for this reason.

I feel bad for anyone who is miserable enough in their marriage to cheat. What a horribly lonely and desperate place to be.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm surprised by this thread.

A man in his forties can't get it up for his beautiful and attractive wife. Further, she begs him for sex and he belittles her, treats her like a perv and tells her she needs to see a doctor?

Something is wrong with him. He's really gay, he has a girlfriend, he has a medical condition but lies about it, he's addicted to porn, etc. but he sure as hell isnt to tired to bang his beautiful wife.

On top of it all, he finds out she has found someone else to do his job, reconciles and still can't/won't get it up.

She shouldn't feel guilty at all. Where I come from, when someone slaps you, you punch him in the mouth no matter how big they are. Then you pick yourself up and move on. Her husband is an embarrassment to all men. Use it or lose it.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> This is almost like looking into the future.


 @blueinbr is spot on. Spot on a White Dress. Spot on a White Rabbit that just bolted down into the hole to his Warren, Ohio pad. Or was it Michigan?

I Wonder. I _Wonder_ driving my 50 shades of grey_ Land_ Rover. My mind doth wander, Dear.

*Is this post a fantasy of yours?* Are you looking for a rationale to cheat? Are you trying to "out" the insincere, the hypocrites? Are you [size 36] titillating the moral bankrupts here? 

You are not black and white. Not Yin or Yang. You Dear, are a blended family of morals and desire. I believe your desire side is starting to push for dominance.

If you want Our Blessing to wander, to taste what the shadow men have to offer, what they can slip into your....drink. You are in luck. Soon, he may be in you? 

You have been taken to the brink by a few "here". They will agree with you that "certain" circumstances allow a person to cross the shallow part of the Styx River. To cross the river by taking very wide steps, spreading your long beautiful legs, stepping on the few and spread wide rocks strewn across that boiling river.

Some here will take you to the near side of the river. Alas, my Lass, you will have to do the crossing yourself. Be careful, the mist [fog] is very dense atop that boiling stream. You may lose your way, never reaching the other side, never going in a straight line. You will be in limbo during the crossing. 

If I am spot-on your dress; if your fantasy does become reality and you head across The River, you may lose your footing, your marriage and your mind.

Lastly, you will lose your [pretty feet] soles. That river will boil them loose. Your soul to follow. Such a feat should never be attempted.

You will have plenty of company, but no admirers. 

Note: You can fly across that River if thee be a light-hearted, single and free Lady. And once sated, you can fly back home. Back home, your head held high, a devils grin on your pretty face.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> She is right to feel ashamed she behaved shamefully.In your own words you admitted she slept with the FIRST man who looked at her,even though she admitted to hating him.Don't you realise what that makes her look like to everyone,other than you obviously.She is like a cat in heat and the first "Tom" she met gave her what she wanted.




Your really stretching what I said. I said that she ran into a guy that she use to be friends with years ago and he looked at her in a way that she hasn't been looked at in a long time. She use to be friends with him so she obviously liked him as a friend, and she said she like him like that, that it was a physical thing. I don't know how that got translated into the first guy that looked at her and she hates him.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> @blueinbr is spot on. Spot on a White Dress. Spot on a White Rabbit that just bolted down into the hole to his Warren, Ohio pad. Or was it Michigan?
> 
> I Wonder. I _Wonder_ driving my 50 shades of grey_ Land_ Rover. My mind doth wander, Dear.
> 
> ...




Ok looney tunes.

For the record this is not about me. I would never cheat on my husband, ever. Ever ever ever. And I would never need "approval" from others if I wanted to do anything. I believe in treating others how you want to be treated. If anyone knows me on this thread I am super emotional with an occasional bad temper that can fly off the handle. My husband himself told me that he would never cheat on me for the fact that he would be scared of what I would do to him. And I agree 100%. 
I am actually very strict on my beliefs about males and females being friends and crossing the line. If I feel the line is being crossed by a man I put a stop to it right away.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> Your really stretching what I said. I said that she ran into a guy that she use to be friends with years ago and he looked at her in a way that she hasn't been looked at in a long time. She use to be friends with him so she obviously liked him as a friend, and she said she like him like that, that it was a physical thing. I don't know how that got translated into the first guy that looked at her and she hates him.


I saw this the other day: "I wish someone would look at me the way I look at chocolate cake." 

It is funny, but I think some people (like your friend) really feel that way. Very sad that their spouses do not desire them. 

Did she mention how the other guy is feeling? Does she know?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> She doesn't like the guy at all. It was purely physical.
> 
> 
> Where does this describe him as an old friend from years ago that she obviously liked.Stop changing the story line to salve your own conscience.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> Ok looney tunes.


:rofl:

How dare you disrespect the intellect of TAM's riddler, girl wonder.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

jld said:


> I saw this the other day: "I wish someone would look at me the way I look at chocolate cake."
> 
> It is funny, but I think some people (like your friend) really feel that way. Very sad that their spouses do not desire them.
> 
> Did she mention how the other guy is feeling? Does she know?


Do you always blame the victim? That seems to be one of your two default stances. Blame the victim, and blame the man. Heaven forbid the two are the same then :surprise:.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Do you always blame the victim? That seems to be one of your two default stances. Blame the victim, and blame the man. Heaven forbid the two are the same then :surprise:.


I am not blaming her friend. I think she did what she thought was in the best interests of her family.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

jld said:


> I have been sympathetic to men who have cheated for this reason.
> 
> I feel bad for anyone who is miserable enough in their marriage to cheat. What a horribly lonely and desperate place to be.


Jld,you are in a very strong marriage with you husband that you both work hard at and that is great.Not everybody else is as lucky.This woman had four children,worked full time,went to school and still had a six months affair which she never confessed to and would probably still be in if her husband had not found out.We only have her word for it that her husband refused sex and every cheating spouse will try and make their betrayed partner look as bad as possible just to ease their own conscience.Some people are never happy with what they have and always want to taste the forbidden fruit,they are of course very sorry when they are caught but hey siht happens.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> Jld,you are in a very strong marriage with you husband that you both work hard at and that is great.Not everybody else is as lucky.This woman had four children,worked full time,went to school and still had a six months affair which she never confessed to and would probably still be in if her husband had not found out.We only have her word for it that her husband refused sex and every cheating spouse will try and make their betrayed partner look as bad as possible just to ease their own conscience.Some people are never happy with what they have and always want to taste the forbidden fruit,they are of course very sorry when they are caught but hey siht happens.


Okay, you don't believe her. 

I do.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

jld said:


> I am not blaming her friend. I think she did what she thought was in the best interests of her family.


How is the potential for destroying her family is in it's " best interests " ?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Malaise said:


> How is the potential for destroying her family is in it's " best interests " ?


I don't think she thought she was destroying it. Quite the contrary.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

jld said:


> I don't think she thought she was destroying it. Quite the contrary.


Having a six month affair is good for marriage?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Malaise said:


> Having a six month affair is good for marriage?


I think she thought she was saving her family and her marriage.

You may not think so. But she may have thought so.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I know that she wasn't lying about her husband refusing sex with her. I've worked with my friend for 5 years on night shift and we had plenty of conversations about our spouses and she's told me multiple times about this being a problem. She felt super self conscious after her 4th child about her breasts and she even got breast implants to boost her confidence and maybe help their sex life. She really is a nice women and all she wants is her husband to "love" her a certain way.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> I know that she wasn't lying about her husband refusing sex with her. I've worked with my friend for 5 years on night shift and we had plenty of conversations about our spouses and she's told me multiple times about this being a problem. She felt super self conscious after her 4th child about her breasts and she even got breast implants to boost her confidence and maybe help their sex life. She really is a nice women and all she wants is her husband to "love" her a certain way.


And she does that by getting some strange for six months.

Have you ever asked her if she would be still doing it if she had not been caught?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

jld said:


> I think she thought she was saving her family and her marriage.
> 
> You may not think so. But she may have thought so.


I wish you would elaborate on this because I really don't get it.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

jld said:


> I think she thought she was saving her family and her marriage.
> 
> You may not think so. But she may have thought so.


It's like Vietnam:

"We had to destroy the village in order to save it "


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Malaise said:


> And she does that by getting some strange for six months.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever asked her if she would be still doing it if she had not been caught?




No I did not ask her. I wasn't prying in her business. She did something stupid, she regretted it, she is embarrassed and feels stupid. They went to therapy and he decided to forgive her. It is not my place to ask a million questions. The bottom line was their marriage was going through a tough time. She tried to address the problem in different ways and she ended up feeling bad about herself and not wanted by her husband. When he told her she needed medication something in her snapped and changed inside her. Like how wrong that really is. She used that for the reason to allow herself to cross the line when an old friend looked at her how she wanted her husband to look at her. And she made a stupid decide to start the affair. And MY guess is, it probably felt good to have sex, and feel sexy and desired by someone. Even though this is wrong, I'm sure it felt good. She regretted it the affair and she knew it was wrong.

The moral of the story is... marriage is really hard. And no matter what you do, and how much effort you put into the marriage you can't make the other person do anything. And that's what is so hard about marriage. You can't force your spouse to change. Love is love, but sometimes your spouse won't do what you want/need him to do and your put in a difficult position. Stay and hope things change, or leave because you want to be treated better. She did something stupid, almost ruined her marriage, they got past it. And nothing changed and they are back to where they started. She's in a loveless marriage where she feels bad about herself and he's with a women that he doesn't trust and who betrayed him. Take that combined with the fact that they are old school Italians who don't believe in divorce and have 4 kids together. The point is...marriage is hard and it's not always a love story.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

People act like marriage is simple. If your unhappy talk to your spouse about it and he will change. No this isn't true. It doesn't always work that way. Sometimes no matter what you do and say your spouse doesn't change. And it's a tragedy because you can really love the person. 
And it's the same on his side. He may really love his wife but he just can't change because it's hard.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> People act like marriage is simple. If your unhappy talk to your spouse about it and he will change. No this isn't true. It doesn't always work that way. Sometimes no matter what you do and say your spouse doesn't change. And it's a tragedy because you can really love the person.
> And it's the same on his side. He may really love his wife but he just can't change because it's hard.



I get that. Really. BTDT. Same scenario.

I'm not disagreeing just to be a jerk. I am saying that I can't see cheating is, in any way, good for the marriage or anything less than a betrayal of the spouse and the family unit.

I know you said she was wrong, she's ashamed, but...there seems to be an undercurrent of 'she was justified' somehow.

No.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

jld said:


> I am not blaming her friend. I think she did what she thought was in the best interests of her family.


She thought an affair was for the best interest of her family? jld no matter what anyone tells me no one can convince me your post are not just one big elaborate trolling exercise.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> The point is...marriage is hard and it's not always a love story.


And is sure as hell is hard if you have an affair. (or don't take a stick of dynamite to a termite problem) I really don't get this post, is your whole point don't have an affair? Are you looking for advice to give her? Are you looking for others to say what she did is acceptable?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Malaise said:


> I get that. Really. BTDT. Same scenario.
> 
> I'm not disagreeing just to be a jerk. I am saying that I can't see cheating is, in any way, good for the marriage or anything less than a betrayal of the spouse and the family unit.
> 
> ...


I wonder is their a little bit of envy involved on the op's part.She sounds like someone describing a bank robber,outwardly critical but with an undercurrent of admiration.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Malaise said:


> I get that. Really. BTDT. Same scenario.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yea maybe your right, there is a undercurrent of justification by my part. I think affairs are wrong and never ok and never the answer. BUT I think what is causing me to defend her so much is the fact that people hear what she did and jump to conclusions and assume they know who she is and want to paint her to be this evil person which she isn't. Good people do bad things. Bad terrible actions don't mean the person bad. It bothers me when people call her a slvt, and other mean things. She doesn't deserve that. She did a stupid thing but you don't have to kick her when she's down, especially when she is trying to make it right. That's why I'm defending her strongly, is because of other people's judgement on her.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> And is sure as hell is hard if you have an affair. (or don't take a stick of dynamite to a termite problem) I really don't get this post, is your whole point don't have an affair? Are you looking for advice to give her? Are you looking for others to say what she did is acceptable?




I don't know what my point is. I usually react very strongly when I hear someone had an affair. But because I know her, and I know the kind of person she is I felt conflicted because I felt for the first time, sympathy for the person having the affair.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I don't know what my point is. I usually react very strongly when I hear someone had an affair. But because I know her, and I know the kind of person she is I felt conflicted because I felt for the first time, sympathy for the person having the affair.


If she was married to your brother would you feel so conflicted?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> If she was married to your brother would you feel so conflicted?


If my brother were behaving the way her husband is, I would ask him if he were really shocked.

Most people are not going to go forever without their needs met. It is not realistic.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> I don't know what my point is. I usually react very strongly when I hear someone had an affair. But because I know her, and I know the kind of person she is I felt conflicted because I felt for the first time, sympathy for the person having the affair.


Life is often not black and white, Katie. It can only help you to see this.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> Yea maybe your right, there is a undercurrent of justification by my part. I think affairs are wrong and never ok and never the answer. BUT I think what is causing me to defend her so much is the fact that people hear what she did and jump to conclusions and assume they know who she is and want to paint her to be this evil person which she isn't. Good people do bad things. Bad terrible actions don't mean the person bad. It bothers me when people call her a slvt, and other mean things. She doesn't deserve that. She did a stupid thing but you don't have to kick her when she's down, especially when she is trying to make it right. That's why I'm defending her strongly, is because of other people's judgement on her.


I am surprised the "****" comment is not grounds for banning, frankly.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sokillme said:


> She thought an affair was for the best interest of her family? jld no matter what anyone tells me no one can convince me your post are not just one big elaborate trolling exercise.


Showing compassion and understanding to a wayward is trolling?

I heartily disagree.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> Yea maybe your right, there is a undercurrent of justification by my part. I think affairs are wrong and never ok and never the answer. BUT I think what is causing me to defend her so much is the fact that people hear what she did and jump to conclusions and assume they know who she is and want to paint her to be this evil person which she isn't. Good people do bad things. Bad terrible actions don't mean the person bad. It bothers me when people call her a slvt, and other mean things. She doesn't deserve that. She did a stupid thing but you don't have to kick her when she's down, especially when she is trying to make it right. That's why I'm defending her strongly, is because of other people's judgement on her.


If she had had an ONS, that's one thing. But six months means a lot of planning and lots of choices, all bad.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> People act like marriage is simple. If your unhappy talk to your spouse about it and he will change. No this isn't true. It doesn't always work that way. Sometimes no matter what you do and say your spouse doesn't change. And it's a tragedy because you can really love the person.
> And it's the same on his side. He may really love his wife but he just can't change because it's hard.


Hon. I've been married over 21 years and with my wife over 25.

I know marriage isn't simple and requires hard choices and hard work.

Your friend made an easy choice and took an easy path.

She showed herself unworthy of the dignity of being the wife and mother of her family to be a slvt.

She could have moved on or at least proceeded that way to see if he might decide she was worth doing his part to keep.

She has made the situation worse for everyone including her kids.

She can't point her finger at her husband and blame him.

She chose stupid. No excuse.

As much as I love my wife, if she ever stopped hearing me and was cruel to me over sex, I would, and have, had pivotal talks with her which, if she didn't / hadn't responded to, I would have eventually moved to separate and then divorce.

I wasn't even in a sexless relationship but a low sex relationship.

I let her know she had work to do to improve.

She did.

It is two ways and I have had to step up as well.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

jld said:


> If my brother were behaving the way her husband is, I would ask him if he were really shocked.
> 
> Most people are not going to go forever without their needs met. It is not realistic.


But that is my point,we only have the cheating wife's word that her husband was refusing to be intimate.Also he worked full time,looked after the kids because his wife worked nights and he probably did most of the house work because she went to college.Would you be in any mood for sex in this scenario.
By the way I did not like the troll comment by another poster,you have given me some good advice and I appreciate it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I don't know what my point is. I usually react very strongly when I hear someone had an affair. But because I know her, and I know the kind of person she is I felt conflicted because I felt for the first time, sympathy for the person having the affair.


You don't have to justify what she did in order to have sympathy for her. That is where you are thinking wrong. See her as a flawed person who did a terrible thing. Not unlike most of us. You really go wrong though when you change your morals depending on who is the one doing immoral. In this case right is right and wrong is wrong. If that is black and white thinking so be it. I like being around people who think black and white. It's safer.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> She thought an affair was for the best interest of her family? jld no matter what anyone tells me no one can convince me your post are not just one big elaborate trolling exercise.


She is somewhat special or touched when it comes to the subject of infidelity.

She is like a crazy cousin that is often fun but a bit nutty sometimes.

She is the real deal. Trust me.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> But that is my point,we only have the cheating wife's word that her husband was refusing to be intimate.Also he worked full time,looked after the kids because his wife worked nights and he probably did most of the house work because she went to college.Would you be in any mood for sex in this scenario.
> By the way I did not like the troll comment by another poster,you have given me some good advice and I appreciate it.


You're welcome, Andy. Even though we often disagree, there is a certain straightforwardness about you that I appreciate.

As to the husband not being in the mood for sex . . . I have a low lifetime partner count. But I have never been with a man, including right now in my marriage, who was not interested in sex just as often as possible. So I just cannot relate to what you said above about him. I think there is something wrong with him, and I am not surprised she ended up vulnerable to an affair. 

Again, humans are only human. After enough deprivation, they are very likely to fall.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> You don't have to justify what she did in order to have sympathy for her. That is where you are thinking wrong. See her as a flawed person who did a terrible thing. Not unlike most of us. You really go wrong though when you change your morals depending on who is the one doing immoral. In this case right is right and wrong is wrong. If that is black and white thinking so be it. I like being around people who think black and white. It's safer.




I'm not changing my morals and never said it was ok.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

jld said:


> I am surprised the "****" comment is not grounds for banning, frankly.


It is actually a fairly accurate description. Nit even as hard as the language God uses in the bible.

But if trying to get people banned floats your boat then shoot away.


I'm just as good with slimy, vile and disgusting behavior to describe slimy, vile and disgusting acts.

If someone murders someone you call them a murderer.

The word she doesn't like is only one of many, many terms and descriptive words that can be used to describe her actions.

It is very much what she chose to become. She will hopefully choose to be a different sort of person from now on.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> It is actually a fairly accurate description. Nit even as hard as the language God uses in the bible.
> 
> But if trying to get people banned floats your boat then shoot away.
> 
> ...


I cannot imagine Jesus ever talking about a wayward woman the way you do, Conan.

Sorry for the t/j, Katie.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> Yea maybe your right, there is a undercurrent of justification by my part. I think affairs are wrong and never ok and never the answer. BUT I think what is causing me to defend her so much is the fact that people hear what she did and jump to conclusions and assume they know who she is and want to paint her to be this evil person which she isn't. Good people do bad things. Bad terrible actions don't mean the person bad. It bothers me when people call her a slvt, and other mean things. She doesn't deserve that. She did a stupid thing but you don't have to kick her when she's down, especially when she is trying to make it right. That's why I'm defending her strongly, is because of other people's judgement on her.


Bad people decide to do bad things. She chose to become a bad person.

Hopefully she chooses differently from now on.

Good people are tempted but don't.

People can choose to change for the better or worse.

She chose to become a much worse person than she use to be and now maybe she will choose to become better.

Her marriage is still toast regardless because for whatever reason no sex is going on.

Hearing the husband would probably give us far more insight into this.

I certainly hope screwing around on her husband felt good because trashing your dignity and family over nothing seems a pretty big waste.

Anyway, I hope she wakes up and leaves before becoming a person who lets men besides her husband have sex with her behind her husband's back while lying the whole time.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

jld said:


> I cannot imagine Jesus ever talking about a wayward woman the way you do, Conan.
> 
> Sorry for the t/j, Katie.


Being that Jesus was God. Try reading the whole bible and see just how many times God directly refers to an unfaithful woman as a wh-re and men who play with them as wh-re mongers.

The cool thing about Jesus is that he offers people the choice to change from something disgusting to something new and redeemed.

His direct language translated from Greek is amazingly harsh at times.

He was not afraid to call evil evil. He had power over sin and had no need to sugar coat anything.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> It is actually a fairly accurate description. Nit even as hard as the language God uses in the bible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I bet you money that if her husband heard anyone call his wife a slvt he would punch them in the face. He forgave her. That is still the mother of his children and his wife. No one needs to be called those names.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> Her talks like this.... honey I'm tired of being the only one initiating. It makes me feel like you don't love me. Are you even attracted to me because I don't feel like you are.
> 
> I'm unhappy with our sex life. It's been months and I can't take it anymore. Are you not attracted to me anymore?
> 
> ...


This didn't happen magically overnight. There had to have been a downward progression to it. Maybe they shouldn't have had that second kid after the first one put a dent in their sex life. Or the third, or the fourth. Maybe she shouldn't have been working AND going to school full time. There were LOTS of lifestyle changes they could have made in response to the deterioration in their sex life before she chose to cheat. And if those changes didn't have the effect she wanted, she could have suggested counselling or separation before choosing to cheat.

The marriage was probably not what either of them wanted or expected. She's the one who did the damage by cheating. The only fault I'll ascribe to him is not understanding how hurtful his words were. The correct response to that hurt is to improve communication, not run out and cheat.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

jld said:


> I cannot imagine Jesus ever talking about a wayward woman the way you do, Conan.
> 
> Sorry for the t/j, Katie.


I'm not sure what religion if any you practice but the Old Testament God was not slow to vent his opinion on wayward women.
I think he was ok with wayward men though.lol.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> I bet you money that if her husband heard anyone call his wife a slvt he would punch them in the face. He forgave her. That is still the mother of his children and his wife. No one needs to be called those names.


Well. I would have a few choice terms for him as well since he is destroying his marriage and family through sexlessness.

I talk hard and care. I have helped more than a few marriages recover from infidelity and polite conversation sometimes has it's place but it is often discarded in the ragged landscape of reconciliation.

When you shoot your partner in the guts, best not be afraid of blood and gore if you want to stop the bleeding and save them.

This is an open discussion forum. Do not mistake it for interchangeable with real life interaction.

I would have to know them personally to even be in a conversation with them.

I did use harsh language when interacting with my best friend and his wayward wife.

I spoke hard to both of them and I was the only one in their lives that didn't give up on their marriage.

They are now in a fantastic marriage with two children and my wife and I are closer to them than blood relatives.

I stand by calling evil evil.

If your friend's husband knew me well enough to talk with me and didn't like what I said about both of them, he could take his best shot but more than one man has broken his hand on my face! LOL!


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I bet you money that if her husband heard anyone call his wife a slvt he would punch them in the face. He forgave her. That is still the mother of his children and his wife. No one needs to be called those names.


Well it would prove he was capable of feeling some passion for his wife even if it was jealousy.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S.

Maybe you should be pissed off at both of them enough to use some harsh language for what they are doing to their marriage which is directly impacting their children!

Everyone who spoke politely in my friend's situation didn't do crap for them.

A hard rebuke from a friend is real love.

Soft words aren't always kind.

Peace.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

sokillme said:


> My suspicion is he got tired of her sh!t and was only really staying with her for the kids from the beginning. Maybe he doesn't really like her much let alone want to have sex with her.


After reading your post I thought the reason he's not that into sex with her is because he's getting it some place else. Men express the same behavior as women in that they feel they are cheating on their lover. Anyway, the joke about Calvin Coolidge comes to mind and is what's known as the Coolidge effect:

The President and Mrs. Coolidge were being separately shown around an experimental government farm. Mrs. Coolidge came to the chicken yard she noticed that a rooster was mating very frequently. She asked the attendant how often that happened and was told, "Dozens of times each day." Mrs. Coolidge said, "Tell that to the President when he comes by." Upon being told, the President asked, "Same hen every time?" the attendant's reply was, "Oh, no, Mr. President, a different hen every time." President: "Go tell that to Mrs. Coolidge."


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

VladDracul said:


> After reading your post I thought the reason he's not that into sex with her is because he's getting it some place else.


Wow, I bet you are right, Vlad. Never even thought of that. But it makes sense.

He wants her kept in her place, and even sees fit to shame her at her work for daring to move from that place. And she feels all kinds of guilty, yet still unloved and ignored. Meanwhile he does whatever he wants.

And to think of all the terrible things that have been said about *her* here . . .


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I tell you what JLD, I had a clientele of mostly married women in a past life. I can remember none that were with me that didn't complain about being neglected and taken for granted and many of the husbands started this neglectful behavior when they began relationships with mistresses and girlfriends. Their interest was diverted from their long time wives to a fresher model. A few husband's sanctioned their wife's going out and one told me directly her having me around stopped her constant nagging about their lack of intimacy. Most didn't know it. In any case, it worked out for most and I believe the problems in the marriage were there long before they heard of me.
When a guy is not interested in sex with one women, its often because he's getting it somewhere else. Taking what is reported at face value, my guess is this guy either has a girlfriend or has realized he likes guys. Its like my uncle's friend who owned a large cattle ranch out west would say, "you can't be a cowboy if you don't spend time in the saddle".


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> :rofl:
> 
> How dare you disrespect the intellect of TAM's riddler, girl wonder.


Girl wonder?

Nah, women lover, I yam. 

I yam what I yam....quote my mentor Popeye!

Early in my marriage I lived with 8 females............. my daughters, wife and her relatives. Even our dog was female. These [extra women] were yonder-days somewhat wealthy, very educated refugees from a far-away land.

I ate well.............and well, they kept me busy.....running in circles!

And they taught me to read......body language. One language, oh so foreign, to so many swinging ducks.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

VladDracul said:


> I tell you what JLD, I had a clientele of mostly married women in a past life. I can remember none that were with me that didn't complain about being neglected and taken for granted and many of the husbands started this neglectful behavior when they began relationships with mistresses and girlfriends. Their interest was diverted from their long time wives to a fresher model. A few husband's sanctioned their wife's going out and one told me directly her having me around stopped her constant nagging about their lack of intimacy. Most didn't know it. In any case, it worked out for most and I believe the problems in the marriage were there long before they heard of me.
> When a guy is not interested in sex with one women, its often because he's getting it somewhere else. Taking what is reported at face value, my guess is this guy either has a girlfriend or has realized he likes guys. Its like my uncle's friend who owned a large cattle ranch out west would say, "you can't be a cowboy if you don't spend time in the saddle".


I hear you, Vlad. And considering what else she has said about him, it really makes a lot of sense.

Thanks again for sharing your perspective.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Malaise said:


> If she had had an ONS, that's one thing. But six months means a lot of planning and lots of choices, all bad.


and also lots of time away from the kids. Bet she missed a few school plys, games and ceremonies....... all for a little strange.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

"I don't mean to paint a picture of a poor lost soul. My point was, that marriage is hard. And there is so much deep emotional feelings within you that can be really cultivated by your spouse, or damaged and messed up by your spouse. Her self esteem took a hit obviously, I mean marriage is tough you guys. throwing yourself at your spouse and being denied over and over can mess you up. I'm sure a lot of men understand this. But it's a little different with women because we all know men are visual creatures and it hurts to put on lingerie and be denied. And to be denied over and over again I personally couldn't imagine feeling good about myself. "

Here is the thing about cheaters. They lie. She could be lying about her husband. She didn't just see her friend and jumped on his penis that very day. Think about the timing (maybe) that one day he told her she needed meds, then the next day or so (this is why timelines are important) she started a fair with an old-friend she hasn't seen for a while?

That is typical cheaters. They tend to make up a reason for their actions. Talk to anyone who has been cheated on, especially by a wayward wife. (since men are more into just getting the sex). 

Now, if what she said is TRUE, that he rejected her. Then he *DOES* have some issues. As someone posted "he already checked out" - if so, then he shouldn't care. Still, she should have brought the seriousness of the situation to his attention. "I am going to have sex with OTHER **MEN** to get my needs met and have an open relationship - or we divorce and I get laid OR we go to counseling and we fix our problems"

There are men AND women who deny sex and intimacy with their SO for bad reasons. Okay, break up. Open the relationship or fix it. 3 choices pretty much. Unless I am hurt or sick - I wouldn't deny my wife sex... and I was horny when I was hurt and sick in a hospital for a week (when I was feeling better). You say she is very attractive - then his excuse isn't very good. But with guys - sometimes our penis don't function because of stress, meds, mental or age. My wife thought I was cheating on her, I has stress & mental issues affecting ME in the bedroom - back then. Some men will sometimes push their women away, rather than admit that their manhood is broken.

She has to do her part to try to save the marriage, but also - HE HAS to do his part to save it. If after 3~6 months no progress is made, then they should split. They need to evaluate their relationship as a couple. Is it improving or not? Is he willing to improve? Is she remorseful? etc.

Good luck to both of them.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Okay... so your friend's husband has the time and feelings to punch someone else for calling her a sloot. But not enough to take care of her emotional and sexual needs? I get the time is short thingy, its life of being parents. But IF she has time to get dressed sexy for him, he has time to get a woody and use it.

Something *IS* off here. Sounds more like SHE is trying and he isn't (if that is true). He should be able to make a real effort for their marriage, they went to counseling? Okay, then his lack of sex was brought up. If he doesn't care to make love to his wife, then she should leave him.

But I was going to post the following as others have said.
There is a good chance that her husband is getting sex on the side, and doesn't have energy or care for her. He wouldn't be the first guy to do this. Especially if it is sex with other dudes. So it comes back to the 3 choices.
1 - Start having sex / respect for each other
2 - open marriage. She has sex with guys, he has sex with guys or his hand or women, or whatever.
3 - divorce.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TaDor said:


> "I don't mean to paint a picture of a poor lost soul. My point was, that marriage is hard. And there is so much deep emotional feelings within you that can be really cultivated by your spouse, or damaged and messed up by your spouse. Her self esteem took a hit obviously, I mean marriage is tough you guys. throwing yourself at your spouse and being denied over and over can mess you up. I'm sure a lot of men understand this. But it's a little different with women because we all know men are visual creatures and it hurts to put on lingerie and be denied. And to be denied over and over again I personally couldn't imagine feeling good about myself. "
> 
> Here is the thing about cheaters. They lie. She could be lying about her husband. She didn't just see her friend and jumped on his penis that very day. Think about the timing (maybe) that one day he told her she needed meds, then the next day or so (this is why timelines are important) she started a fair with an old-friend she hasn't seen for a while?
> 
> ...


You are so right in that people who cheat will always lie about their spouse to try and justify their affair. Its the 'wife doesn't understand me' phrase. They will either downright lie, exaggerate, or omit the positives about their spouse. 

My husband's ex did this, she told many people things that just weren't true, exaggerated other things, omitted all of HER many issues,and omitted all of his many good points, just so that she would feel better about cheating and ending the marriage. So that people would be on her side. 
Having been married to him for 12 years this year, I know they were lies, I knew very quickly what had really gone on in that marriage, and this was confirmed by one or two people who knew them both and could see though her nonsense. Sadly most people just took her word for it.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

There is another possibility with regard to the H. @katiecrna you describe your friend as attractive and focused on her appearance. She got a boob job after the kids.

There is another reason a man won't be attracted to his W. it happens when he knows she has weak boundaries and seeks attention too much.

We don't know how the W interacts with others in his presence or outside it. It's possible he sees her reaction to others and it diminishes his feelings of being attractive and special. Most guys won't think of it that way, but that's how a woman might feel (guys would think they're just angry or upset because it is an attack on their w and marriage and masculinity on some level.) I'm not saying all men act this way, but most guys I know who are very NOT beta can sense this attention seeking behavior and it's a huge turn off.

Couple that with the possibility (IMO likelihood) that this isn't her first rodeo, and H may be checked out. Particularly if she's bugging him for sex. And cheaters often introduce different moves / approaches they've picked up. All in all - we don't know the he wasn't clued in before and it grossed him out.

Why did he find out? He must have been suspicious.

Anyway - my point is we aren't in the marriage - something HUGE must have been going on that we don't know about.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

TheTruthHurts said:


> There is another possibility with regard to the H. @katiecrna you describe your friend as attractive and focused on her appearance. She got a boob job after the kids.
> 
> There is another reason a man won't be attracted to his W. it happens when he knows she has weak boundaries and seeks attention too much.
> 
> ...


Speaking as a moderator:

This is every bit as speculative as what Vlad posted.

Taking a speculative scenario, which has no basis in fact, is exactly what leads to threads like these going completely off the rails.

Further complicating this thread is the fact that it is completely made up of third-hand information.

Let's leave the speculation out of it. 

Thank you in advance.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@farsidejunky aren't all posts about her H speculative? I'm confused why this post would be offensive.
[edit] or are you saying this is a t/j?

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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Speaking as a moderator:

Here's what we know:

The OP's friends marriage is sexless, then she stepped out on her marriage, then she got caught.

It is one thing to speculate with the individual, who obviously isn't here for this thread. At least then there's the ability to attempt to refute based on first hand experience. In this case, there is zero opportunity to do so.

Then somebody espouses a wild theory, someone else latches on to that theory, and off to the races we go with information that can't be proven or disproven. Further aggravating this is emotional judgements that have been made in previous threads between certain posters. 

This place is emotional enough as it is. Speculation on unverifiable, third-party information is a recipe for disaster, and results in almost trollish behavior from established members. 

As a moderator, a thread can be closed in an effort to prevent people from getting too emotional. It is normally that in lieu of a ban. Instead of closing the thread, I am telling folks here to stick to the facts.

Any continuation of or trollish commentary on speculation in this thread will result in a 48-hour time out.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Speaking as a moderator:
> 
> Here's what we know:
> 
> ...


No that is far from the facts. In the first post the op said this. 

'She had always told me since I've known her that she always initiates sex. They had great sex but it was only because she initiated'.

So they had GREAT sex and she initiated. I know marriages where the man always initiates, I cant see the issue with that, especially as it was described by her as 'great sex'. It was far from a sexless marriage. They had a grerat sex life. Her complaint was that she always had to start it off. Cant see the problem there myself. Certainly no reason or excuse to cheat.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> No that is far from the facts. In the first post the op said this.
> 
> 'She had always told me since I've known her that she always initiates sex. They had great sex but it was only because she initiated'.
> 
> So they had GOOD sex and she initiated. I know marriages where the man always initiates, I cant see the issue with that, especially as it was described by her as 'good sex'. It was far from a sexless marriage. They had good sex but her complaint was that she always had to start it off. Cant see the problem there myself. Certainly no reason or excuse to cheat.


Thank you for the clarification.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Speaking as a moderator:
> 
> It is normally that in lieu of a ban. Instead of closing the thread, I am telling folks here to stick to the facts.
> 
> Any continuation of or trollish commentary on speculation in this thread will result in a 48-hour time out.


Farside, you know everything on here is hearsay and sticking to the facts can only go as far as sticking to ones perspective of the facts. I fully understand the mods not allowing the threads to get overly emotional and devolving into name calling, et cetera. Moreover, the very nature of these threads calls for analysis based on the "owner/starter" initial post and subsequent comments and clarifications. If there's a misunderstanding of the "facts", my observation is that its incumbent, to a certain extent, on the owner/starter to correct and clarify these misunderstandings. Speculation is often a product of having to fill in too many blanks and requires the person giving advice to rely on their own interpretation and perspective of the information. Without reliable data, all you're ever going to have are opinions based on speculation.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> There is another possibility with regard to the H. @katiecrna you describe your friend as attractive and focused on her appearance. She got a boob job after the kids.
> 
> There is another reason a man won't be attracted to his W. it happens when he knows she has weak boundaries and seeks attention too much.
> 
> ...



I agree with this and it goes both ways.

I didn't like watching my ex H go spineless with the wife of one of his friends and glossing over her behavior which in principle he would disapprove from others. When it involved this particular wife, it was always "no, I didn't notice......."

One of the many reasons why my husband had to dump his just a friend ex was because I was losing respect from him knowing the way he allowed her to treat him ........ and still he wanted to call her a friend.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> One of the many reasons why my husband had to dump his just a friend ex was because I was losing respect from him knowing the way he allowed her to treat him ........ and still he wanted to call her a friend.



Just to be sure...... I meant "respect FOR him...."


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I don't think there is a point to dissect every possible reason. Marriages and people aren't perfect. Our spouses will never fully make us happy, do what we want, and fully satisfy us. There could be so many reasons why she cheated, some of them from issues with her, with who she is and how she feels and some of them being issues with her husband and how he treats her and how he makes her feel. But the combination was what gave her reason in her head to cheat. 
Who knows why he refuses sex with her. It could be issues with him, mental, physical, emotional and issues with her treatment toward him. 
Whatever the combination is that caused his neglect and her cheating is something that I believe was built up, and developed over time. Which is probably why when things get really bad in marriage it seems impossible to fix because both people adapt into a selfish, self preserving, high walls built up to protect themselves, non vulnerable people who kinda hate and protect themselves against the other. 
Who knows at least that is my take on it. Problems that bad can't happen overnight, it's developed over years of not addressing issues and developing protective mechanisms from one another.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Certainly agree @katiecrna


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I moved this thread from the Sex In Marriage forum to the Coping with Infidelity forum because it does not fit the rules of SIM.


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## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

If you're that unhappy in your marriage, you get a divorce, THEN go out and slvt around. It always baffles me - the sense of entitlement and selfishness of cheaters. Disgusting.

She certainly painted herself as the rosey, do-gooder victim wife who was just utterly neglected by her unloving husband, didn't she? Convinced herself and you. Heard this BS story millions of times. It's a crock of sh*t.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm not going to argue the point that the wayward is responsible for their actions and they should have talked more, get counseling, left the marriage before finding a substitute, et cetera. The reality is however, a person that wouldn't have cheated otherwise will cheat under certain conditions. A spouse withholding sex/affection is often such a condition, especially if there is not some known bona fide reason that causes them to withhold. When it appears that one spouse is withholding affection because they no longer, for what ever reason, find the other worthy of affection, you have a perfect storm for cheating. Show me a woman whose husband takes her for granted and perennially denies her affection and I'll show you a woman I (well I'm a little long in the tooth now) or somebody like me, can steal. 
When you think about it, why should one spouse be denied the joys of sex, having someone desire them, because the entitled iceburg they married decides they are no longer interested or are worth the effort. Like a bumper sticker I had once that said, "If you ain't paying attention your lady, you ain't doing what I will."


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> I'm surprised by this thread.
> 
> A man in his forties can't get it up for his beautiful and attractive wife. Further, she begs him for sex and he belittles her, treats her like a perv and tells her she needs to see a doctor?
> 
> ...



Did someone hack your TAM account, Chappy?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> I'm not going to argue the point that the wayward is responsible for their actions and they should have talked more, get counceling, left the marriage before finding a substitute, et cetera. The reality is however, a person would wouldn't have cheated otherwise will cheat under certain conditions. A spouse withholding sex/affection is often conditions, especially if there is not some known condition that causes them to withhold. When it appears that one spouse is withholding affection because they no longer, for what ever reason, find the other worthy of affection, you have a perfect storm for cheating. Show me a woman whose husband takes her for granted and perennially denies her affection and I'll show you a woman I (well I'm a little long in the tooth now) or somebody like me can steal.
> When you think about it, why should one spouse be denied the joys of sex having someone desire you because the entitled iceburg they married decides they are no longer interested or worth the effort. Like a bumper sticker I had once said, "If you ain't paying attention your lady, you ain't doing what I will."


That not what was said. read this. 
'She had always told me since I've known her that she always initiates sex. They had great sex but it was only because she initiated'.
They had great sex she said, her beef was that she had initiated it, as many husbands do all the time time.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> That not what was said. read this.
> 'She had always told me since I've known her that she always initiates sex. They had great sex but it was only because she initiated'.
> They had great sex she said, her beef was that she had initiated it, as many husbands do all the time time.


Despite what people sometimes like to think, men =/= women.

We're told how much men "only want one thing", that men are sex crazed, that they'll screw a hole in the wall if necessary, etc. etc. For a woman, being the only initiator of sex can be extremely damaging. We're taught that men are the more sexually aggressive gender. When a sex crazed beast who only wants one thing doesn't want his wife, his wife is bound to feel rejected, hurt, and begin to question her very womanhood. Self esteem and self worth plummet. The sex being great when they had it was probably more painful for her because why wouldn't a man want to initiate great sex with his wife. Yet this one did not. Even after being begged.

All this woman wanted was to be wanted. Instead, her husband accused her of being a pervert or sex crazed loon for simply wanting regular sex that is sometimes initiated by him.

Either a quick divorce or an affair was as predictable as the sunrise. 

Seeing as the H still doesn't want to have sex with his wife, I'm betting she'll have another affair and be very discreet about it or simply realize she is wasting the best years of her life and sexual vitality on a dud and leave.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Definitely seems, through the observations of kat, that the marriage is a wasted effort.

Not in anyway taking away from or mitigating her friend's deplorable behavior but cruelly rejecting her for sex before the affair and denying her still is not a marriage.

It is a joke.

There has to be more to this story however and it is unfortunate to only have a one sided, non first person account.

BTW Vlad. Men who target vulnerable women are just parasitic bugs.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> BTW Vlad. Men who target vulnerable women are just parasitic bugs.


You're right Conan. The reality of it though there are plenty of us* out there. Like hiking a trail in middle Georgia in early fall, if you don't want your lady exposed to ticks, make sure she knows you care enough to provided the repellent. If she's vulnerable, you don't want to be the one that caused it. Ya, you can kill the ticks after they attach, but they'll leave a mark that won't ever go away.

*was at the time but I use present tense. Its like an alcoholic. You're never a former alcoholic and I still fight it with every thing that's in me if she gives me a sign she's willing to make time.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

VladDracul said:


> You're right Conan. The reality of it though there are plenty of us* out there. Like hiking a trail in middle Georgia in early fall, if you don't want your lady exposed to ticks, make sure she knows you care enough to provided the repellent. If she's vulnerable, you don't want to be the one that caused it. Ya, you can kill the ticks after they attach, but they'll leave a mark that won't ever go away.
> 
> *was at the time but I use present tense. Its like an alcoholic. You're never a former alcoholic and I still fight it with every thing that's in me if she gives me a sign she's willing to make time.


Just keeping things in perspective. 

Dog shyt smells no matter how nice the lawn is.

Maybe you can provide some form of insight from a certain angle.

But from the angle of a man like me, it is worth little.

Men who sniff around what isn't theirs are looking to get some easy pleasure at the expense of the woman, her children, husband and whoever else could get hurt.

I've never in my life taken advice from or been in fear from sniffing dogs. Just been disgusted by them.

Just keeping it real. I have nothing but contempt for anyone who would harm a family to get their pecker polished.

I've got all the life coaching they could ever need with a 3 round session.

The OM usually gets to skip off after fvcking everyone's life up.

One look at me and they see an end to being able to walk without a cane much less skip.

Being a good partner in marriage is always good advice but predators are a separate issue.

Killing all the parasitic bugs in an area works pretty fvcking good too mate.

Reality balance check done and my rant is over.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. I appreciate sharing information a lot.

Just sharing mine and how I relate to predators.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> P.S. I appreciate sharing information a lot.
> 
> Just sharing mine and how I relate to predators.


Conan I wouldn't be too worried about the "count".
There is one and only one rule about true pick up artists.
Those who can do.Those who can't,talk about it.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Just keeping things in perspective.
> 
> Dog shyt smells no matter how nice the lawn is.
> 
> ...




Totally agree. Dbags like that are equivalent to people who loot the life savings of the elderly with scams. Really the exact same moral character - or lack of character. I honestly believe one has to be on the sociopathic scale to do either of those things and still get up in the morning. Most can not, which makes it twice as easy to get away with for the sociopath because it's so out of the norm from an empathy and human interaction standpoint.


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

Katie - I've read through the thread, and it doesn't appear your friend tried to arrange for marriage counselling or seeing a sex therapist with her husband before her affair. Maybe your friend and her husband tried that before her affair, but you forgot to tell us?

Sounds like they could use some intensive therapy now if they have a sexless marriage. Is that in the cards do you think?


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

Much the same story as my WW and myself. Yes, my WW approached me a few times with similar complaints. I'M the one who suggested marriage counseling- and I was amenable to it because we BOTH had issues. Any type of counseling was not acceptable to her. Flat refused it. I honestly tried to up my game- but on top of normal married with kids issues I was struggling with a failing career, and caring for an elderly terminally ill parent. Honestly, for that stretch of time, my main concern was not sending her to work bowlegged every day. My concern was keeping my job, getting a few hours sleep, and doing what I could in my mother's last days. Well, Mom did die, and I did lose my career of 20 years. Found out about her affair after I was layed off and had time to be suspicious. She had been at it since well before I was layed off. Instead of understanding my grief, and offering support and help of a loving wife, she had disconnected, acted like everything was right with the world and began an illicit affair with her coworker. Some of the things she did suggested she relished doing the things she did as if to hurt me as much as possible. 

To the single, younger guy at her work who poached her because I took my eye off the ball- my sincere hopes are that karma will visit you one day. 

Yes, she knows now what she was to him- a piece of tail- and she is 'oh so sorry'. But, you can't un-**** a WW. All you can do is leave or pick up the pieces. 

Yeah, we had issues- but they were workable ones- until she murdered the marriage stone cold dead as hell. 

To the OP- I echo what others have said. A spouse just talking about issues a few times and then throwing in the towel and cheating has not in any way given due dilligence to trying to work on a marriage. Go get some real professional help. Just suck it up and divorce if you know you aren't happy or dont want to work on things. Bombing the remains of the marriage with an affair, and then wanting to stay after being caught puts the BS in the worst hell of their life. If your friend wonders now why sex isn't happening- probably 90% of it is because the husband can't get the mind movies out of the bedroom.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> I'm surprised by this thread.
> 
> A man in his forties can't get it up for his beautiful and attractive wife. Further, she begs him for sex and he belittles her, treats her like a perv and tells her she needs to see a doctor?
> 
> ...


Uhhh... OK.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> Conan I wouldn't be too worried about the "count".
> There is one and only one rule about true pick up artists.
> Those who can do.Those who can't,talk about it.


Never claimed to be a pick up artist my man.


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

I gotta put this out there as well- OP knows nothing of what really went down in the friends marriage- only what a WW was willing to tell to paint the best picture possible to justify the indescretion. 

A peek behind the curtain of my own marriage would have revealed a wife who was insanely intolerant of a close relationship between her husband and his elderly mother because she never had a close relationship with her own mother to even know what normal was. This was an ongoing issue from early in the marriage. The close family bond between my mother and myself was strong because my father had been lost in a tragic accident during my formative years. However, when I met my wife, I was out of college, working full time, and had a place of my own. My wifes issues with her own mother extended over to a dislike of mine as well- no matter what I did there was friction there to the point of a call to my mother every couple of days to see how she was doing was a problem for my wife. When my mother became terminally ill, with no one but me to look after her it did not sit well with my wife- even though she knew it was my duty as my mothers only child. 

Also, a trust issue had developed between my wife and myself over having another child. We had several already, big mortgage, finances were strained to the breaking point, the company I worked for was struggling and having quarterly layoffs threatening my job- our very future uncertain- and my wife's internal clock was running out for childbearing and she put in for ANOTHER child. My response was 'it isn't a good time, lets wait'. Well, however, and for whatever reason her birth control pills somehow just 'quit working' and she became pregnant. 
Feeling, and probably knowing, that she had purposely taken matters into her own hands doused my enthusiasm somewhat. The pregnancy ended in a miscarriage several weeks later. 
This changed my wife in a decidedly negative manner. In hindsight, she blamed me for the loss of the pregnancy. None of this did us any favors in the intimacy department. 

However, we were having sex. I estimate in the year before she began the affair, even with all the stuff we had going on, we had sex no less than 70 times. 


These situations and the interactions between us set the backdrop for her path to becoming a person who could cheat on her spouse. 

My point being, a look behind the curtain would very often reveal things that good counseling and professional help could very well have resolved. Being 'too proud' and not availing yourself of those options before destroying a marriage in an affair is just a tragic tragic thing that is almost sure not to end well for all parties.


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## Tim Cook (Oct 23, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> Your asking me details about my friends menstrual cycle like this is a critical piece in the puzzle. It's not.
> 
> My friend is not innocent, I never said this. I just think some people hear cheating/adultery and they want to crucify the person and paint them to be an evil sl*t of a person, when this isn't always the case. People make mistakes. Good, loving people make mistakes. People do stupid and bad things, doesn't mean they are stupid and bad. She acted stupid and selfishly and she is the first to admit it.




A six month affair isn't a mistake. It's a conscientious decision to lie and stab your partner in the back. And given that husband's general have vicious mind movies of their wife's with their affair partners after the affair is exposed the sex is likely to get worse not better. 


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

I agree- a 6 month affair is going back again & again and making conscious decisions to descend fully into the deceit and betrayal. The lies told to make time for it, the planning of the encounters, the wayward coming home and acting normal- even having sex with the unknowing spouse. Make no mistake- it is evil, abusive, and unconscionable behavior- and in my book the wayward deserves every label they earned.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Destroyd, sounds like your old lady is a highly selfish, vain, temperamental and manipulative chick who wants what she wants when she wants it. Doesn't sound like she's the type person who would consider taking, " a look behind the curtain (that) would very often reveal things that good counseling and professional help could very well have resolved." When your the dealer, its tough to realize the hand you delt yourself is not a winning hand. My best advice is to fold, shuffle the deck and re-deal.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> P.S. I appreciate sharing information a lot.
> 
> Just sharing mine and how I relate to predators.


Conan, don't think I somehow got the impression you admire men who chase other men's wives. Dog shyt is not a bad way of describing them. Most of them know it and their character is not the really the issue. They are what they are and my insight is intended for folks to take what they want and disregard the rest or all of it. But from the angle of a man like (you), (where) it is worth little, I'm going to explain it a little differently from the viewpoint of another predator but the principle is the same.

_We take old RV down to Lake Eufaula (Lake George) every so often. On one trip I was walking my dog near the water. My dog was nearing the waters edge for a drink of water when I heard something say, "hey buddy, you need to keep your dog away from the water" I looked around and didn't see anybody but I noticed a 12-14 foot gator just off the bank looking at me. I said, "gator is that you talking to me". The gator said, "yes it me. I can see you love your dog but if he gets any closer, I'm going to eat him. I'm telling you this because I don't want to see you lose your dog but I'm a predator and that's what I do. I had one just the other day and it was tasty." I said, "gator, you are one sorry piece of crap, eating peoples dogs they love and I'll kill you if you eat mine." The gator said, "no matter what you call me, or how much you hate me, I'll still eat your dog cause Im a predator and that's what I do. If you kill me, one of my 25 cousins will be here to take my place and one of them will eat your dog. So, if you don't want your dog eaten by a predator like me, make sure they have plenty of water at your campsite so they don't come down here looking to quench their thirst."_


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

Vlad, you are pretty much correct. She is a strong willed woman who is the product of a failed marriage where her father cheated and her parents divorced. It was always her way or the highway through most of our marriage with me trying to live up to almost impossible ideals. Her standing on the edge of the precipice and looking behind her at the smoking ruins of our marriage, regrets from her failed relationship with her own family when her own estranged mother died suddenly and unexpectedly last year, and staring a Divorce in the face was the only thing that got through to her and made her start examining herself. She IS examining herself and admits her flaws and unrealistic expectations. She takes blame for the affair. As for my part in our issues pre-affair, I am examining and improving myself as well. I've had a helluva ride on the infidelity train. Based on the majority of TAM advice I would have pushed on with a divorce long ago but ultimately decided to extend her grace and give R a shot and see where it goes. So far things are going well. I do have a plan in place in case things do not continue to go well.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I love my wife dearly. She is LD and I am HD. I would love to have sex every day. In reality, we have sex on average once per month, maybe twice. Three times in a month is considered a real blessing. If I follow the logic some here are using, after 21 years of marriage like this, I would be justified in cheating on my wife. Yes it would be evil and cruel, but justified. I have been rejected in many ways, including being told I'm "too horny" or that I need to stop thinking about sex so much. So, yes I understand how it hurts. 

With that being said, I married my wife because I love her. Sex is only ONE aspect of marriage. It's an important aspect, but it isn't everything. I could never cheat on my wife, no matter how much I want more sex. I just can't use being horny as a justification to ruin the trust we share and the joy I get being her husband. Affairs are so very damaging. There's no way she couldn't know what she was about to lose. 

What more can I say? I wish my wife would push me onto the bed and have that "I want you!" look in her eyes, but I never get that. I wish my wife would enjoy spontaneity, but she doesn't. I feel the pain of what your friend is going through, but it does not justify cheating. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

Vlad, the analogy with the gator is pertinent and I do understand it. Sort of like the scorpion and the frog.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

In the final analysis, you have to ultimately deal with other people based on their quirks, perspectives, crazy making, et cetera, rather than by your own. If you expect others to be fair because you're fair, your likely in for a disappointment.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

The difference being the WS (as opposed to the dog in the analogy) has all the tools to know there are gators in the water, yet chooses to get close anyway.

Further applicable to the situation is the dog blaming the owner for being attacked because he/she had to ask the owner for walks.

At issue in your analogy, Vlad, is the question of agency. I used to believe in mate guarding. I no longer do, as I have no interest in controlling someone, nor do I have any interest in a partner that cannot control themselves. 

Life is too damn hard to partner with someone who is loyal only when everything is good to great. It is unrealistic to expect a marriage will always be that way.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Farside, I have a saying written in a little tablet called my lesson in life. It sez, "its better to be alone than with someone who doesn't want to stay". So like you're saying, whats the use in keeping a spouse who has already cheated in their mind and look for a way to make it a reality.

You're right on the difference between a WS and a dog in respect to my analogy. My point I hoped was to point out men who chase other men's wives are always going to be there no matter how a potential or actual BH feels about them. If the dog is going to be easy pray, the gator is going to take advantage of it. The gator, (other than my gator who warned me. he was one of the gooduns), does not feel a responsibility to the dogs owner.


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

I absolutely would have arranged a polite-but-stern 'meeting' with OM in my case before anything went down had I not been preoccupied with what at the time seemed more important issues. I had recognized the guy (who was her newly arrived direct supervisor) was calling her at innapropriate times about 'important work issues'. I even had that talk with WW. I worked 20 years in a similar office environment and had been called at home on my 'off' time maybe three times in those 20 years and it was a sub 3 minute conversation in each case. He had called several times in a month and talked far too long and I told her I didnt like it, and that it could wait until business hours. I kick myself for not arranging a meeting and doing a bit of mate guarding. It may not have done any good, but then again it may have. At least the guy would have sensed I was 'present' and casting an eye his way. I'm fifteen years older than the guy and harder edged- a little chat may have made a difference. Water under the bridge now though.

Upon further reflection I don't think it would have ultimately made a difference- maybe staved it off a bit longer- they spent too much time together and took trips alone with one another. Given her issues and our history I think the die was cast when he walked into the scene. 

The post above about dealing with individual person's realities is spot on. It doesn't matter if a wayward is right or wrong, or justified or not in their dissatisfaction- if they are dissatisfied the **** is gonna hit the fan.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SnowToArmPits said:


> Katie - I've read through the thread, and it doesn't appear your friend tried to arrange for marriage counselling or seeing a sex therapist with her husband before her affair. Maybe your friend and her husband tried that before her affair, but you forgot to tell us?
> 
> Sounds like they could use some intensive therapy now if they have a sexless marriage. Is that in the cards do you think?


They didnt have a sex less marriage.Her compliant was that while they had good sex she had to initiate it .


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Diana, does it sound reasonable to you that the only problem was that she had to initiate sex? Would that have such an impact on most women it would cause them to take a potential life altering action? It seems to me its is way more involved then that.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> The difference being the WS (as opposed to the dog in the analogy) has all the tools to know there are gators in the water, yet chooses to get close anyway.
> 
> Further applicable to the situation is the dog blaming the owner for being attacked because he/she had to ask the owner for walks.
> 
> ...


You sound tired out, far.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Vlad, I am "liking" your posts not because I actually like the reality in them, but because there is indeed reality in them. Uncomfortable reality. That can only help us if we hear it.

Don't push a spouse past his or her limits. Don't play with fire. Yes, you might be married to a fireproof person, or you might be fireproof. But what if you or they are not?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> Diana, does it sound reasonable to you that the only problem was that she had to initiate sex? Would that have such an impact on most women it would cause them to take a potential life altering action? It seems to me its is way more involved then that.


That was what was said in the original post, that they had great sex but she had to initiate it. 
There are many reasons why people cheat, mainly because they have no sense of responsibility or integrity or keeping the promises they made. Many people wouldn't cheat no matter what happened.


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

The WW says she had to initiate. That is code for "I need to be pursued" "I crave attention" "I need to be fawned over". There's nothing wrong with expecting a man to initiate a significant portion of the time, I get that. But what guy, after being married a long time, and having four children with his wife is going to pursue her in as lively a manner like a horny OM who only wants to get layed? Very few- no matter how hard you try. That's the difference in hormone based infatuation and long term mature love. 
When the wife is an ocean of perpetual 'want' then how do you navigate those waters? 

I can tell you what won't work- and that is to ignore it.


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> They didnt have a sex less marriage.Her compliant was that while they had good sex she had to initiate it .


Right. I'll ask a different way maybe easier to understand, did your friend consider a marriage counselor or a sex therapist to address the problems in their sex life and marriage before beginning her affair? (he wouldn't initiate, called her names, made her feel terrible about herself) 

What I left unsaid in my first question, if she didn't pursue MC before her affair began, it's a damn shame.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

destroyd said:


> I agree- a 6 month affair is going back again & again and making conscious decisions to descend fully into the deceit and betrayal. The lies told to make time for it, the planning of the encounters, the wayward coming home and acting normal- even having sex with the unknowing spouse. Make no mistake- it is evil, abusive, and unconscionable behavior- and in my book the wayward deserves every label they earned.


I cheated on my husband. Drunken ONS that ended in oral sex that I stopped 30 seconds in. That, in and of itself has been completely impossible to forgive myself for. I am not sure that I ever will. But what I can say, is that it was not a choice I ever set out to make. That morning when I woke up, I didn’t think to myself “I’m going to cheat today!” I wasn’t happy in my marriage, but I surely wasn’t looking for an out or a good time. I went out with friends that day, got drunk, got schmoozed with some smooth words and did what I did. I never continued a relationship with my OM. Nothing ever happened after that. Although I did lie and tell my husband for 2 years that it was just a kiss.

So in the meantime, my husband and I have separated twice, with the intent to divorce the first time and then unsure of what to do the second time. Both in house separations. During the second in house separation, I discovered that my husband had once again escalated his 10 year EA with his ex gf. This escalated while we were together, not during our separation times. He went to her home at least twice that I am aware of. Neither of them will admit that it was physical, however, I’m not stupid. This is what I’m having a problem dealing with right now. She does not live in our town. He wasn’t just driving down the road and saw her out mowing her grass and stopped by to say hi. She lives two hours away. Both times that I have confirmed he visited her, he had to PLAN. He took half day vacations from work those days. In doing so, he would go to work early those mornings so that he could leave our town by 10AM so he could be to her house by noon, spend a few hours and be home before I suspected anything. In going to work early, that meant that he couldn’t get our daughter on the bus in the morning. Which means the night before, he would tell me he had to go to work early and could I get our daughter on the bus? Which would mean I would have to go into work a half hour late. He jeopardized my job to have his affair. The second time he went to visit her (I didn’t know it was the second time at this point) – he told me he could get my daughter from the bus stop but that he had a meeting in a different town and it would be close. I ended up getting a phone call from my daughter asking where he was. I text him and he said he was still at the meeting in another town (45 minutes away). He left my daughter standing in the cold while he was 2 hours away with his AP. He lied at told me he was in a meeting, when he was actually with her. Both of these times that I know of that he went to see her, he had to have at least planned it the night before so that he could go into work early the next day. In order to do that, he was using his work phone to call and/or text her, set up the times and then delete the call log / texts so that I couldn’t see them. When I discovered that he’d gone to her house once, I packed his things and kicked him out. He swore up and down that he only went to her house once. Once I let him come back home, I discovered he’d been to her house at least twice. When I asked him why he lied he said it was because I flipped out so badly the first time. 

I am incredibly hurt and angry by his betrayal. Yeah, we’re together. But our relationship is sh*t. Yes, I cheated first. But read the above and tell me who was more calculated? Who’s affair required more planning, more betrayal, more conscious decisions? Each time he went to see her, he had a 2 hour drive on the way there to think about what he was doing! Each time he went to see her he stayed 2 hours so he had to block off a 6 hour time frame to be with her! Which one of us was more calculated in our betrayals? I’m not saying that makes him worse than me. Betrayal is betrayal and it hurts and sucks no matter what way you slice it.

But you know what I’m struggling the MOST with? The calculated lies. All of the things that were done to cover it up. Which means he KNOWS what he was doing was wrong. The lengths that he went to to get away with this and have me not found out. The calculated actions to deceive me. That hurts worse than anything else. I don’t know how you get past that.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> I cheated on my husband. Drunken ONS that ended in oral sex that I stopped 30 seconds in. That, in and of itself has been completely impossible to forgive myself for. I am not sure that I ever will. But what I can say, is that it was not a choice I ever set out to make. That morning when I woke up, I didn’t think to myself “I’m going to cheat today!” I wasn’t happy in my marriage, but I surely wasn’t looking for an out or a good time. I went out with friends that day, got drunk, got schmoozed with some smooth words and did what I did. I never continued a relationship with my OM. Nothing ever happened after that. Although I did lie and tell my husband for 2 years that it was just a kiss.
> 
> So in the meantime, my husband and I have separated twice, with the intent to divorce the first time and then unsure of what to do the second time. Both in house separations. During the second in house separation, I discovered that my husband had once again escalated his 10 year EA with his ex gf. This escalated while we were together, not during our separation times. He went to her home at least twice that I am aware of. Neither of them will admit that it was physical, however, I’m not stupid. This is what I’m having a problem dealing with right now. She does not live in our town. He wasn’t just driving down the road and saw her out mowing her grass and stopped by to say hi. She lives two hours away. Both times that I have confirmed he visited her, he had to PLAN. He took half day vacations from work those days. In doing so, he would go to work early those mornings so that he could leave our town by 10AM so he could be to her house by noon, spend a few hours and be home before I suspected anything. In going to work early, that meant that he couldn’t get our daughter on the bus in the morning. Which means the night before, he would tell me he had to go to work early and could I get our daughter on the bus? Which would mean I would have to go into work a half hour late. He jeopardized my job to have his affair. The second time he went to visit her (I didn’t know it was the second time at this point) – he told me he could get my daughter from the bus stop but that he had a meeting in a different town and it would be close. I ended up getting a phone call from my daughter asking where he was. I text him and he said he was still at the meeting in another town (45 minutes away). He left my daughter standing in the cold while he was 2 hours away with his AP. He lied at told me he was in a meeting, when he was actually with her. Both of these times that I know of that he went to see her, he had to have at least planned it the night before so that he could go into work early the next day. In order to do that, he was using his work phone to call and/or text her, set up the times and then delete the call log / texts so that I couldn’t see them. When I discovered that he’d gone to her house once, I packed his things and kicked him out. He swore up and down that he only went to her house once. Once I let him come back home, I discovered he’d been to her house at least twice. When I asked him why he lied he said it was because I flipped out so badly the first time.
> 
> ...


How can you say you cheated first when his affair had been going on for ten years?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

jld said:


> How can you say you cheated first when his affair had been going on for ten years?




Exactly!


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

MrsAldi said:


> So her husband didn't lust after her and she felt rejected by him.
> Understandable but she could have talked with him instead of giving into temptation.
> 
> Who was looking after the kids when she was with her AP?


It's possible that she did try several times to talk with her husband and he actually was a real clod. We'll never know the true dynamics, but if she was at the end of her rope, she should have initiated divorce instead of the lazy/coward method of cheating.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

destroyd said:


> The WW says she had to initiate. That is code for "I need to be pursued" "I crave attention" "I need to be fawned over". There's nothing wrong with expecting a man to initiate a significant portion of the time, I get that. But what guy, after being married a long time, and having four children with his wife is going to pursue her in as lively a manner like a horny OM who only wants to get layed? Very few- no matter how hard you try. That's the difference in hormone based infatuation and long term mature love.
> When the wife is an ocean of perpetual 'want' then how do you navigate those waters?
> 
> I can tell you what won't work- and that is to ignore it.


I can tell you what wont work, cheating for 6 months.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm naturally a mate guarder, not a babysitter.

I offer a feeling of security but not oversight.

I trust Mrs. Conan but I naturally mark my territory.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

jld said:


> How can you say you cheated first when his affair had been going on for ten years?


I cheated first physically, to my knowledge. I’ve always had suspicions that his EA was a PA too but never any proof. Knowing what I know now, I still believe that until at least 3 years ago – and never before my cheating – he was never PHYSICAL with her. 3 years ago is the first time I caught his texting with her hot and heavy – never saw any messages, talking about volume of texting. That was 2 months after I cheated. EVERYTHING has escalated since then. Based on my suspicions and what I know now, that’s the point I believe his affair went full throttle into physical. I only have PROOF that he saw her in person recently. Everything before that was suspicion.


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

LH, I've followed your story in its entirity- you made a drunken mistake. Period. And I'm not too sure you weren't set up and/or possibly drugged, in which case you did pretty good to stop it when you did. In my book at least, what you did was bad, but in an entirely different category from calculated, sober, cold planned cheating. It's like the difference between manslaughter and premeditated murder.

If your situation had of happened in my marriage, it would be a betrayal, but with extenuating circumstances. I'd have beat my friends ass for taking advantage of my severely drunken wife- and we would NOT be friends in any way any more. 

No doubt in my mind I could get over what you did much easier than a planned 8 month betrayal with emotional attachment as well.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

destroyd said:


> LH, I've followed your story in its entirity- you made a drunken mistake. Period. And I'm not too sure you weren't set up and/or possibly drugged, in which case you did pretty good to stop it when you did. In my book at least, what you did was bad, but in an entirely different category from calculated, sober, cold planned cheating. It's like the difference between manslaughter and premeditated murder.
> 
> If your situation had of happened in my marriage, it would be a betrayal, but with extenuating circumstances. I'd have beat my friends ass for taking advantage of my severely drunken wife- and we would NOT be friends in any way any more.
> 
> No doubt in my mind I could get over what you did much easier than a planned 8 month betrayal with emotional attachment as well.


:iagree:


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## ShatteredStill (Dec 20, 2016)

I understand that the OP opened this thread simply to discuss something 'interesting' & then became defensive after being dragged into arguments. It's repeatedly been stated that she believes her friends actions to be completely wrong. I'm not bashing. I too find it 'interesting' that when we hear a cheats justifications (as an unexperienced outsider) it is possible for it to foster sympathy.

The TRUTH is, like MANY adulterers, this friend had zero intentions of divorce. What possible, rational excuses can there be for making a troubled marriage EVEN worse? This was not an exit affair. That at least I can understand. An empathic, brave person would file of divorce & go it alone before they started dating but I can wrap my head around someone being terrified of being alone, having an affair until the other offers a new life. It's cruel but fear can drive some to do deplorable things.

Committing adultery when you KNOW it's just for sex, closeness, conversation or any other 'high' can not be rationalized as anything other than selfishness & ego boosts. Yes, the friend had a major problem in her marriage but this adultery could never be seen as any form of solution. It's illogical to argue that her husband's behavior drove her to it. His attitude to sex wasn't a big enough issue to divorce over. He said & did things that made her feel bad....many of us can find something in a long marriage with kids to complain about. How do "complaints" justify, with malice, planning, deceiving & abusing your partner who you claim to love? 

What was supposedly in her mind? 'I'll have this new WAY OF LIFE & then tell my husband to torture him into wanting more sex!'. I bet NOT! She met an old friend who she had the hots for. He was interested so she chased & PLANNED to have a relationship. She got all hot & excited. Chased the high of lust & deception. Had a really good-time...Then got caught & looked into her marital history to explain why she was vulnerable in the first place. 

During the affair she would have talked about how attractive & wonderful & fulfilling her sex partner was. That's NOT very sympathetic though is it? I have no doubt that she truly believes her justifications but they're nothing more than guilty justifications. Her marriage is now worse than ever. What was the point? I wish people like this would actually pause for a second to think about the consequences!!


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

FFS. She's not a ****, she's an adulteress/cheater. We don't call male cheaters "****". So sick of that word being thrown around at women. It's offensive. 

And no, I'm not sympathetic to her. If she was in a true sexless marriage and put up with it for years, maybe. But it didn't sound like it. She married an LD man and knew what she was getting into, since she was the one to always iniate. His words were cruel and heartless, but it doesn't give her a free pass to cheat. 

I get what katie is getting at though. Not all cheaters are horrible, evil people. And yes I do believe that our actions can contribute (not cause) to a spouse's cheating. People are human.

And for all the Bible talk, let's not forget that Jesus stood up for an adulteress. Whoever is without sin, cast the first stone and what not. So some need to get off their high horses with the name calling.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Celes said:


> FFS. She's not a ****, she's an adulteress/cheater. We don't call male cheaters "****". So sick of that word being thrown around at women. It's offensive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The fact is, many people believe this is slvtty behavior and they have just as much a right to express that as you do with your viewpoint about the term.

Personally I'd have to meet the WW before I'd assess whether or not she's a ****. And if the H is actually a dbag I wouldn't have a problem expressing that.

Words do have meaning and we form our boundaries based on what we perceive as acceptable and crossing a line. The whole issue of adultery has to do with weak boundaries and the ability to equivocate and not draw clear distinctions. So, from that perspective, I personally think it's better to have a clear idea if unacceptable behavior with a label that articulates that boundary - nothing in my mind draws a clearer picture than the term ****. So, for that reason, the pros outweigh the cons in the use of explicit terms here.

But then that's just my opinion and my boundaries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Celes said:


> FFS. She's not a ****, she's an adulteress/cheater. We don't call male cheaters "****s". So sick of that word being thrown around at women. It's offensive.
> 
> And no, I'm not sympathetic to her. If she was in a true sexless marriage and put up with it for years, maybe. But it didn't sound like it. She married an LD man and knew what she was getting into, since she was the one to always iniate. His words were cruel and heartless, but it doesn't give her a free pass to cheat.
> 
> ...


No they arent all horrible, but they have low moral values, little integrity, are happy to lie and deceive their own spouse and potentially devastate the lives of their own children. There isnt much more selfish than that.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> The fact is, many people believe this is ****ty behavior and they have just as much a right to express that as you do with your viewpoint about the term.
> 
> Personally I'd have to meet the WW before I'd assess whether or not she's a ****. And if the H is actually a dbag I wouldn't have a problem expressing that.
> 
> ...


The word is derogatory to women and an attack on female sexuality. 

Also, the definition of the word is a woman who has casual sex with several men. So it's not even applied correctly in this instance, since she was sleeping with one OM.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I agree. That word is offensive and should not be allowed on sites like this. It's not only sexist, but character assassination. Name calling is not OK. It's juvenile, judgemental, meant to hurt, and frankly it's like bullying someone. People get depressed, Cut themselves, Harm themselves, and even try to kill themselves sometimes with success when they are bullied and called mean names like that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The forum software filters out words that are not allowed on TAM. It replaces the word with the "****". Overriding the banned word by spelling it in a manner to prevent it from being edited out is against forum rules.

Please removed the banned words from your posts. They are banned for a reason. I will edit any post that it not edited by the person who wrote it.

{Speaking as a moderator.}


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

thenub said:


> I think posm and posw should also be banned then. If it's political correctness that the mods want, they should enforce every little bit of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Moderator message

The forum rules call for civil, civilised discourse. *Not* political correctness.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Speaking as a poster:

I have bypassed the filters more times than I can count. That said, I have made a pledge to stop doing so immediately to the other mods, and now to all posters.

Speaking as a moderator:

Rules regarding the enforcement of bypassing filters has been lax by all of us mods. That changes now. Any further infractions will be dealt with accordingly.

This thread will also not be used to facilitate a debate about the rules or filters. Any further infractions of that nature will result in a 48 hour+ time out.

If you want to see the filter criteria changed, post it in the suggestion box.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm likely a guilty as anybody else and occasionally don't even try to get around the filters. But I have to admit its refreshing to see ya'll draw a line in the sand. You can hardly watch a prime time show these days without being inundated with bad language. In my opinion, the frogs been in the hot water long enough. Good to see you're getting him out.


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## ShatteredStill (Dec 20, 2016)

Celes said:


> The word is derogatory to women and an attack on female sexuality.
> 
> Also, the definition of the word is a woman who has casual sex with several men. So it's not even applied correctly in this instance, since she was sleeping with one OM.



THANK YOU!!

This is the reason why 'Love Shack' is no longer my main forum!! The words & quotes used against women (& the 'likes' they receive) have become so offensive that is pushing many women off of the site. Being 'clever' & changing the word to "female dogs" doesn't make me feel any better when I'm told that there are millions of women in the world "Just in case the female dog thinks she's irreplaceable!". 

Forums like this attract a lot of very hurt & vulnerable people. We NEED to remember that when we are posting from anger & resentment. Many feel that the above quote, when directed at an adulteress is harmless BUT when I forum has many BS still reeling from the agony of betrayal being called a "female dog" & 'you're completely replaceable' is thoughtless & cruel. :crying:

Again, thank you mods of TAM. It's so refreshing to read your words :smile2:


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