# Nasty oral sex



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Are there any ladies out there who overcame an aversion to receiving oral sex? 

My wife thinks it's a nasty, disgusting, more-or-less unthinkable act (both giving and receiving). I don't expect to ever get a bj, but I would like to be able to decide for myself what is and isn't too disgusting a place to put my face, though she won't allow it. Never has, not once. 

The plan so far has been to respect a well stated boundary. Some around here seem to think that taking charge and being more manly or aggressive is the right approach to this sort of thing, more of a "dive in" mentality. I fear it will get my skull crushed like a coconut, but then I'm not a woman. 

I'm sure I'll get a bunch of accept it and move on to other things answers, which I want to hear if that's really the harsh reality that I've always believed it to be, but I'm about out of other things to try without success. This act seems to be more universally satisfying to more woman than most - it might be my last great hope for adding some variety in the bedroom.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

How long have you been together? Your wife sounds like she has major hangups with sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

richie33 said:


> How long have you been together? Your wife sounds like she has major hangups with sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's an understatement, son. Married 27 years, and I'm trying to make the issue out of our sex life that I should have made 26 years ago before time and decay have removed all desire.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

How old is your wife and how long have hou ben together? Was she raised very conservatively?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Sorry to hear that. That's a sounds horrible. I feel for you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

mineforever said:


> How old is your wife and how long have hou ben together? Was she raised very conservatively?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


1. 50
2. 27 years
3. Standard Catholic upbringing, mother converted to Mormonism when she was a teenager. Not Bible-thumping conservative, but not terribly liberal either.

Sorry if you don't have the backstory. She's not comfortable with just about any expression of sexuality that's not plain vanilla sex. No mutual masturbation except the once-in-blue-moon hj for me when circumstances require, no contact with her breasts for more than a few seconds, no oral, and face-to-face PIV only. She is highly and at one time in the past multiply orgasmic as long as the restricted script is followed. 

I'm no longer willing to stick to the script, so I'm looking for ways to successfully introduce more variety.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

richie33 said:


> How long have you been together? Your wife sounds like she has major hangups with sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I second the notion. The lovely Dr. Mrs. LD has major sex hang ups but oral has never been one of them. So we're talking pretty serious hang ups...


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

Cletus:

My wife is almost exactly like yours. There is NO foreplay. She won't touch me. Sex is get yourself hard and get it over with. Oral is absolutely forbidden. She doesn't believe sex should be part of marriage. As strange as it sounds, that is really her beliefs. I don't know where they came from. Things were different, but I am basically in your shoes and only a few years behind you with our time together. Just know you are not alone!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

bbdad said:


> Cletus:
> 
> My wife is almost exactly like yours. There is NO foreplay. She won't touch me. Sex is get yourself hard and get it over with. Oral is absolutely forbidden. She doesn't believe sex should be part of marriage. As strange as it sounds, that is really her beliefs. I don't know where they came from. Things were different, but I am basically in your shoes and only a few years behind you with our time together. Just know you are not alone!


Thanks. Signs of the end of my sex life in the now not unforeseeable future made me decide that I have to give it the ol' college try before I resign myself to my fate. 

I can think of worse things in life than getting punched in the face for trying to go down on my wife, but only if there's a chance of success.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

There is a trick people use for doing, um, things with their mouths that may or may not be um, yummy. Such as tossing a salad.

BUT...the same trick could be used for many other things, and in fact, the trick produces a very interesting feeling for the receiver.

All you do is spread some Saran Wrap over the "area" that you want to put your tongue on but which you don't want to swap fluids with. 

This could easily be used for giving oral to a woman, and strangely enough, the sensation of a tongue through the plastic feels amazing. It may not be enough direct sensation to cause an orgasm, but it would be a great way to explore the area.

I'm pretty sure this idea might sound just as weird or worse than just doing oral with no Saran Wrap to your wife, so I doubt this is very helpful. But just thought I'd through it out there. It is actually a really fun game.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Overhead this conversation on the train about two week ago (note to self... stop listening to other people's conversations):

Younger woman: ... he spent hours "down there"
Older woman: Really? Sounds nice.
Younger woman: Doesn't your husband do that?
Older woman: No. I don't let him
Younger woman: Why not.
Older woman: I leak.

Chris then went right back to minding his own business.

I assumed that the older woman was talking about bladder control and was afraid of leaking on her husband while he was going down on her. Wondering if that could be the problem here.


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

Seems to be a rather common thing with LD females. That their lack of desire for Oral sex is by the way side.If mine chose not to give.I could live with that,And I do.But to not like to receive Oral is very hard to live with.She feels is gross as well.But it always was not like this.I have always felt if I could get her to enjoy it maybe it would change other things as well


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

Chris Taylor said:


> Overhead this conversation on the train about two week ago (note to self... stop listening to other people's conversations):
> 
> Younger woman: ... he spent hours "down there"
> Older woman: Really? Sounds nice.
> ...


She might think her vaginal lubrication is leakage. Some women have zero clue about their own bodies, especially older women.

OP maybe you could check out the Christian Nympho website with her. Show her what normal Christian women are doing in the bedroom. If you think any of this is a religious type hang up.

Good luck . It's really disheartening to see women think of sex and especially their own bodies as disgusting.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

FemBot said:


> She might think her vaginal lubrication is leakage. Some women have zero clue about their own bodies, especially older women.
> 
> OP maybe you could check out the Christian Nympho website with her. Show her what normal Christian women are doing in the bedroom. If you think any of this is a religious type hang up.
> 
> Good luck . It's really disheartening to see women think of sex and especially their own bodies as disgusting.


It's not a religious thing except as perhaps residual leftover from a conservative background. She's a hard core agnostic (at best) now. 

I think it's more of an ick thing for her, like licking a slug.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> There is a trick people use for doing, um, things with their mouths that may or may not be um, yummy. Such as tossing a salad.
> 
> BUT...the same trick could be used for many other things, and in fact, the trick produces a very interesting feeling for the receiver.
> 
> ...


Interesting possibility. I would have thought this to be about as exciting as sex with a condom, but then, I don't have a vagina. I might just have to figure out how to suggest it. What have I got to lose?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes, it is possibly something like the de-sensitized feeling of a condom...but having done it, I can also say it is a curiously good feeling...it makes you want "more" of it....so if she would allow this, she might like it enough to want more and then allow it without it.

It is not that sexy when doing this trick, as Saran Wrap is noisy and sticks to itself, it can be a clumsy process. But the feeling is actually quite nice.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I got over it when SO got angry and said I was depriving him of the sex life he needs just bc I have hangups about my own vagina.He said I'm making my neurosis his problem and it's not cool.
> 
> Oral is a requirement of mine now LOL


So you're saying he forced the issue.

How did that go? How do you bury your face in your wife's crotch and say "I'm not taking NO for an answer" and get away with it?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cletus said:


> So you're saying he forced the issue.
> 
> How did that go? How do you bury your face in your wife's crotch and say "I'm not taking NO for an answer" and get away with it?


 It wasn't like that at all.He didn't force the issue,he showed emotion about it so I understood it wasn't some frivolous request.It was a need for him.He needed to please me in that way.
He didn't bury his face and act like you described.He communicated.Like a grownup.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> It wasn't like that at all.He didn't force the issue,he showed emotion about it so I understood it wasn't some frivolous request.It was a need for him.He needed to please me in that way.
> He didn't bury his face and act like you described.He communicated.Like a grownup.


Well, communicating "like a grownup" (condescension noted) hasn't worked thus far, and some have suggested that a Real Man (TM) would just take matters into his own hands, even if I'm pretty sure that's a bad idea.

I'm glad you saw the importance of the issue and gave in, to the benefit of you both.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm going to guess that Scarlet's SO made that statement much earlier in their relationship, when they were still forming their "normal". 

Cletus in your relationship, what you have right now is your "normal" so I think it is too late for you to execute things the way Scarlet's SO did.

However...just curious...why this topic, when I thought the last post you made was saying you were now considering leaving?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Well, communicating "like a grownup" (condescension noted) hasn't worked thus far, and some have suggested that a Real Man (TM) would just take matters into his own hands, even if I'm pretty sure that's a bad idea.
> 
> I'm glad you saw the importance of the issue and gave in, to the benefit of you both.


I'm sorry you feel I was condescending Cletus.Obviously I'm not helping you.I'll step out of your thread now. 

Have a good day,hope things improve.


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## momtwo4 (May 23, 2012)

Cletus said:


> So you're saying he forced the issue.
> 
> How did that go? How do you bury your face in your wife's crotch and say "I'm not taking NO for an answer" and get away with it?


Oh, I would not do that. That could really backfire on you--esp. with a wife that is already uptight. I'm not saying you should accept things the way they are, but you wouldn't want things to escalate to "I can't trust you in bed" or "You don't value my wishes/feelings."

Have you asked your wife what she WOULD be comfortable with (new positions, places, etc...) and willing to at least try?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm going to guess that Scarlet's SO made that statement much earlier in their relationship, when they were still forming their "normal".
> 
> Cletus in your relationship, what you have right now is your "normal" so I think it is too late for you to execute things the way Scarlet's SO did.
> 
> However...just curious...why this topic, when I thought the last post you made was saying you were now considering leaving?


Considering leaving is accurate, but since this is probably the first time I've said that our sexual disconnect might spell the end of our marriage, I think it's only fair that I exhaust every avenue. 

I've long said that I was looking for some non-intercourse sexual act to add to our routine. I was never terribly specific about what that was, because I was open to pretty much every possibility. Over the last year, we've tried most of the mainstream things like a vibrator and touching, but those have fallen flat. This is an activity that many women claim they enjoy, some more so than intercourse, so just maybe if I can get past the "ick" there might be an "ahhh" moment.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"...but since this is probably the first time I've said that our sexual disconnect might spell the end of our marriage..."

Ok well in that case, you might have a shot still.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I'm sorry you feel I was condescending Cletus.Obviously I'm not helping you.I'll step out of your thread now.
> 
> Have a good day,hope things improve.


On the contrary, you're exactly the person I need to hear from. You specifically overcame the obstacle I'm asking about.

The approach your husband took was one I think I have tried in the past, but I've always acquiesced to her phobias. How hard did he push on issue? For how long did you reject him before relenting? Did you enjoy it immediately, or did it take a period of adaption? If I'm guilty of just not being persistent enough, that's good information.

If you didn't mean to imply that those suggesting a "just do it" approach weren't acting as adults, then I apologize.


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## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

Maybe we have a new product here.Sarah Wrap T-Bar.How nice would it be to have a depenser next to the bed on the wall??A roll of Baggies ??? I once had a GF that loved Oral with her panty hose on?? Funny thing is most of us men would allow it all???


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

momtwo4 said:


> Oh, I would not do that. That could really backfire on you--esp. with a wife that is already uptight. I'm not saying you should accept things the way they are, but you wouldn't want things to escalate to "I can't trust you in bed" or "You don't value my wishes/feelings."
> 
> Have you asked your wife what she WOULD be comfortable with (new positions, places, etc...) and willing to at least try?


Of course. The answer is always "I'm perfectly satisfied with our sex life as it is. I like the feel of PIV and nothing else." 

We bought the book "101 Nights of Great Sex" about 10 years ago now. After thumbing through it, she was able to do three or four of the less challenging suggestions, and nothing that permanently changed our sex life. 

She thinks she's already come a long way by allowing the lights on in the bedroom, adding 1 sexual position since our honeymoon, and learning how to reliably orgasm from sex. With all that success under our belt, she views my needs as a never ending litany of insatiable desires. Why give any more when it will never be enough? 

So this is about the last frontier that's never had much discussion.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I would suggest;

More books Or Sex therapy if she's open to them or try a playful approach, flirt have fun. take a mini honeymoon and call it that. Prepare together buy new undies and add edible underwear. Treat it like a new and improved sex life. Tell her you love to try before you both get older and have regrets.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Cletus



Cletus said:


> 3. Standard Catholic upbringing, mother converted to Mormonism when she was a teenager. Not Bible-thumping conservative, but not terribly liberal either.


Not liberal at all.

At the time, oral sex was strongly frowned upon in the LDS faith (Mormonism) It fell into the category of, "unnatural, impure, or unholy practices" and was grounds for refusing admission to the temple (Assuming it became known.)

Aside from Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses are the only other Christian sect I'm aware of that inserts itself into the bedroom of married couples like this.

I'm wondering if maybe some of this rubbed off on your wife? (Even if she's not terribly religious now.)


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> Cletus
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know. 

MC will be part of our Last Stand. I don't know that this question will ever get answered - I won't waste too much time on any counselor who wants to spend endless hours analyzing why things are the way they are as opposed to working on solutions today. 

If you ask my opinion, I think it's just a matter of taste. Sexual expression, like every human trait, has tails to the left on the normal distribution, and I think she just lands there. She's not broken, she just needs someone in the same place. She's not asexual, just very restricted in her expression of sex. It's our pairing which is the problem. 

I'm much better off than a lot of the men around here, so I'm not going to casually toss my marriage aside without getting my ears boxed for bad behavior, if that's what it takes.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

LI did. We were not having any oral sex because I told him that one thing I didn't want to taste or smell. He pretty much said "Me either " but clearly he deceive me. But I don't know what change my mind...OK TAM change my mind. whatever. But I just start to want to give him a BJ because it seems so erotic when other women talk about it here. He had kind of hint that he did like receiving but felt like he shouldn't ask to receive if he didn’t want to give. So I gave him a BJ the first time for Valentines Day. I practice several times on a cucumber -- stop laughing! 

But I still didn't want to receive even though I was giving him a BJ both as foreplay and finishing. He started telling me I should just try it to see if I like it. I just didn't want to because I was so self conscious about myself down there. Smell taste etc. We always kissed each other down there during foreplay but kind of like a peck on the cheek. So to make a long story short he pretty much eased me into it by getting closer and closer and giving me a lot of reassuring caresses of my hips until I could no longer resist. 

Then you know how you men do with the sweet talk which pretty much seal the deal. You create a movie that she wants to see again. 

But he lied to me when he told me he didn’t like it. My story probably doesn't help you any but it might help somebody else who is just starting out.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Cletus - is it something you tell her you'd like to do? Sometimes your opinion of a body part can change with constant positive comments from a partner. I used to hate my breasts, for instance, because I got them too early in life. I was always slumping and trying to minimize them. My feelings towards them changed with positive feedback from partners over the years. 

My H has just started giving me oral after 18 years. I always wanted it - it was him who was holding back for whatever reason. (Bad past experiences for one and lack of confidence for another.) You would think all would be well, but I'm telling you, if you have come to believe your partner is or should be repelled by that area it takes time to overcome. 

And, once again, why are these frigid ladies getting all the great orgasms!? I'm going to make that my next sig line.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> And, once again, why are these frigid ladies getting all the great orgasms!? I'm going to make that my next sig line.


Yeah, I noticed that too... 


Anyway, my wife had hangups about oral. Especially receiving one. She was disgusted by a mere thought of it. Her vagina was, by her own standards, a very dirty place that constantly oozes unappealing stuff. 

But, I have told her constantly that is important to me that I want to do it and all those smells, tastes and softness was, for me, a very good thing. 

I think that main thing that led her to change her mind and let me down there it the attention she received. She really loves my attention, that is my secret weapon. 

But, unlike ScarletBegonias she never embraced the act. Just few months ago she described it as 'not uncomfortable' and maybe it will always stay in that category. Your analogy with broccoli applies here nicely. I do think that sometimes it feels good for her but she will never wish it on her own when there are other things to do.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Another thing that might be helpful to you. I have always shown interest in her toilet habits, periods, ovulations, gyn. visits, etc. She really liked that, having me to talk about those things, ask for advice. That made her very comfortable around me and that helped quite a bit.

She actually took that on a whole another level in time but that would be TMI for most here.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cletus, I admire your tenacity and I don't want to discourage you from trying to enter a new frontier, so to speak. But if touching and vibrators fell flat oral is also likely to fall flat no matter your technique. For a woman to orgasm via oral, she has got to give herself openly to the experience and enjoy it from her mind then down to her clit. Getting over that mindset takes determination on her part first, your part secondly. And it will likely take several good experiences before she is a true convert.

I LOVE FaithfulWife's suggestion about Saran Wrap! If her mind will allow the openness to happen, perhaps plastic wrap can get her to fully enjoy the experience without being overly concerned about what all if happening down there. 

I was also thinking it might help if she would allow you to shave her first. If she isn't already fully shaved, the difference is incredible, sensory wise and the confidence of being cleanly shaved can help her relax and enjoy your attention.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Cletus...My wife was the same at first....I got her over it within the first 6 months of our marriage. As best I can recollect she was too up tight to orgasm the first time, but did when we finished PIV...

After thinking about it for a few days she was MUCH more receptive to it the second and subsequent times, and orgasmed rather quickly......

Oral for me was a different can of worms...Perhaps 10 times in the first 20 years..........

Now, I can expect oral to completion about half the time, and recently she walked into my BR at 2:00 AM and gave me an unsolicited BJ...Said she thought I was horny and couldn't sleep...Gotta love a woman like that......:smthumbup:

I am sorry to say I think it is just too late for your wife to change, but then my wife came around to giving oral at about the 40 year mark....Go figure...

good luck
the woodchuck


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

TheStranger said:


> Yeah, I noticed that too...
> 
> 
> Anyway, my wife had hangups about oral. Especially receiving one. She was disgusted by a mere thought of it. Her vagina was, by her own standards, a very dirty place that constantly oozes unappealing stuff.
> ...


Yah what man would want put his face close to a warm tender fragrant vagina, clitoris engorged, labia flaring, dripping with desire.....The line forms right behind the woodchuck.....:smthumbup:


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

You know what they say about oral being like pizza. When its great - its great! But when its not so hot -- eh -- its still pretty darned good!


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

I must admit that I had a few lovers that thought themselves the gift of god when it came to all things sexual, guess what,they were nothing compared to the man I married!!!!

I was quite young when I first experienced oral from a BF and it was actually a big turn off hearing him slurping away as though he was drinking a bowl of milk after eating his cereal, and well, I was icky about giving as pee came out of the end of his d!ck, and some guys really need to get in touch with hygiene too as a crusty smelly d!ck was not never going in my mouth, I was turned on to giving for the first time through a series of erotic conversations an ex and I had he kind of centered it around me sucking him off and the story got me so hot that when we did meet up I actually wanted to do it, but being inexperienced I kind of got embarrassed the first times and went off the idea as he didn't help me understand what he wanted and when he tried to ejaculate down my throat that was a done deal no more!!! Hubby was way better than any of them and actually gave hints and tips on what to do and how he likes it, never will let him finish in my mouth but good fun getting him close though 

Don't bother to force it, could go badly wrong and then you will be like some of the other threads on here!!

Talk dirty with her, playful dirty, erotic fantasy dirty and see if you can open some bridges? My hubby used the slip of the tongue to rim me every once in a while, so happy he he cracked that code!!!!!

Good luck and keep us posted on how it goes for you and what tactics you employ.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> Cletus...My wife was the same at first....I got her over it within the first 6 months of our marriage. As best I can recollect she was too up tight to orgasm the first time, but did when we finished PIV...
> 
> After thinking about it for a few days she was MUCH more receptive to it the second and subsequent times, and orgasmed rather quickly......
> 
> ...


Well thats good to know. About 5 more years and the DW might actually like giving me a BJ. :smthumbup::sleeping:


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

But he lied to me when *he told me he didn’t like it.* My story probably doesn't help you any but it might help somebody else who is just starting out. 

You poor thing, how can you ever trust him again after being so dishonest with you.....

I guess we can all forgive a few "sweet" lies when told in the heat of passion.....

You hit upon a pet peave of mine...Women being self conscious about the appearance of their vagina.....My wife's "V" is a shrine....It is lovelier than any rose petal, and could have been the model for an oil painting or sculpture by a renaissance master....And yet nothing I can say or do will convince her it is not "ugly".....

If men saw vaginas the way most women do the species would die out....Since there is no danger of that, logic should dictates that us guys think they look pretty damned fine......

Ladies, please, *Trust us on this one*...:smthumbup:

the woodchuck


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

I second Anon's advice to shave, if you can talk your wife into it. It makes things feel sooooooooo good and maybe it will make her feel somehow more "presentable." 

Cletus, um, do you guys ever have a few beers or smoke some pot (can I ask that on TAM)? It sounds to me like your wife could do with some relaxing of inhibitions. I'm not suggesting you get her drunk or stoned and then trick her into doing something she's going to regret, but even in my most hard core LD years, my husband's eyes would light up when I had a few drinks, because he knew what he was in for.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Cletus...your wife appears to be close to my age and women in my age bracket tend to be at a point in there life where we are more can be set in our ways and a might stubborn.....she is also most likely heading in to some major hormonal changes with mid-life menapause having said that you may have quite a challenge ahead of you and you may want to consider a different approach depending on where she is in her life.

I love oral so I can't help you there...but I really wasn't to excited about anal sex but Big Daddy really wanted to try it. If he had tried the push me...I would have bulled up so fast it would have made your head spin....not happening. That approach might have worked when I was in my 30's but no my late 40's or 50's. I am to independant and set in my ways now to be pushed like that. Big guy has figured out an approach to my chagrin that seems to work for him every time. 

He starts sending me texts (suggestive texts) in the middle of the day and continues until I get home....he keeps up the constant teasing, touching, through dinner and the evening...he keeps the senual sexual onslaught up until I really don't care what he does....I am usually so hot by the time he gets me to the bedroom I just want to get his cloths off I'll do whatever he wants. Just food for thought its a different approach.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> I second Anon's advice to shave, if you can talk your wife into it. It makes things feel sooooooooo good and maybe it will make her feel somehow more "presentable."
> 
> Cletus, um, do you guys ever have a few beers or smoke some pot (can I ask that on TAM)? It sounds to me like your wife could do with some relaxing of inhibitions. I'm not suggesting you get her drunk or stoned and then trick her into doing something she's going to regret, but even in my most hard core LD years, my husband's eyes would light up when I had a few drinks, because he knew what he was in for.


Shaving? Great suggestion, but nah, that ain't gonna happen. She has to teach a swim class with preschoolers, which means getting naked in a shower with other women once a week. No way in hell she'll agree to having to explain THAT one. We already know from my vasectomy how much upkeep is required once you do that to keep sex from becoming little more than extended playtime with a belt sander. 

Can't get her near the ganja, but she'll have a drink or two. Pretty much guarantees early sleepy time. I haven't found the substance legal or not that does the trick yet. 

How do you tell the difference between inhibition and disgust?


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

Cletus said:


> How do you tell the difference between inhibition and disgust?


In cases like these, I would say the former fuels the latter.

I'm sorry this is your lot. Your avatar is quite ironic, as I find you to be a particularly thoughtful/self-aware poster...

And because you are already self-aware (and your own "marital-situation" -aware)..I don't know how much I could write that you don't already know

I think your first instincts are correct. She's not going to go for the assertive and "insistent" husband routine in this realm. I think it'd just be too out of character for you---for her to take it seriously.

Have you stimulated her to orgasm by hand before? And if not, I would think that's the place to start...manual before oral.

And if you have gotten her off by hand already...then maybe see if she'll go for that saran wrap idea. Because it is sort of like a training wheels version of oral sex. 

I honestly think that reticence in this area is more about the extreme difficulty of 'just letting go' and enjoying the moment due to a constant underlying fear of rejection. 

Women just aren't programmed to let go sexually the way men can. I think there are evolutionary reasons for this (and obviously we're not oozing testosterone)--and though these inhibitions can be overcome, it's only with conscious/willingly given effort. And honestly, someone who's already decided that they're 'not so into sex' probably isn't even willing to contemplate expending that effort.

Oh also---alcohol...I know you wrote it makes her sleepy. I don't know what to say to that...because I wouldn't bother to attempt any of the aforementioned things without her at least somewhat 'less than sober'...I just think it'll be futile if she's stone-cold serious and full of nervous tension...


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## salamander (Apr 2, 2013)

I love that you asked how to tell disgust, because the science of micro-expressions does just that. Perhaps you've watched the series based on the research, "Lie To Me". Disgust is one of the basic Mammalian emotions. The funny thing about bodily "attitudes" (postures) and expressions is that not only do they reflect emotions, they also inspire them. 
Poker Tells: Disgust Micro Expressions | Nicolas Fradet

Perhaps you and your W can become more mindfully aware of how your faces register emotions as you enter romantic/erotic connection. Time outs to take deep cleansing breaths could be helpful to reduce heartrate when triggered by one's own or the partner's disgusted facial/body postures.

give her space and alert her the moment her nostril flares on one side and one side of the lip draws up. the tension in the corner of the eyes drawing the outer corner down is another clue. 

Disgust is a life-saving instinct to save vertebrates from putrefied food, disease-carrying "vapours", etc. It is instinctive. 

Inhibition is equally life-saving, because social alienation equaled death to our ancestors. We are a social species, so getting ostracized usually meant a painful hermitage and solitary death. Our brains can't tell if a tiger is about to eat us, vs our social circle is about to ostracize us. Both mean certain death.

Mindful awareness on both sides is the answer.

all my best,
s.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Shaving? Great suggestion, but nah, that ain't gonna happen. She has to teach a swim class with preschoolers, which means getting naked in a shower with other women once a week. No way in hell she'll agree to having to explain THAT one. We already know from my vasectomy how much upkeep is required once you do that to keep sex from becoming little more than extended playtime with a belt sander.
> 
> Can't get her near the ganja, but she'll have a drink or two. Pretty much guarantees early sleepy time. I haven't found the substance legal or not that does the trick yet.
> 
> How do you tell the difference between inhibition and disgust?


Good question. I'd say inhibition and disgust seem to have a symbiotic relationship when it comes to sex. If a woman feels disgust towards oral sex, she's going to inhibited from trying it. If a woman is inhibited by oral sex, she (perhaps) decides that it must be disgusting. When I think about the ways I've overcome sexual inhibitions, I know that I've had to sort of "talk myself" through the discomfort (disgust, embarrassment, feelings of not being "good enough"--what ever was causing it.) There was always a point beyond which things got much, much easier. What has worked for me was to not focus on my own negative feelings, but those of my husband, which I knew were positive, since I was trying something that gave him pleasure. If you ever do get your wife to agree to let you go down, it might help her to have a way to distract her thoughts from her own feelings. (Presumably an orgasm might help this along . . . )

Your wife strikes me as someone who isn't able to just "let go" easily--which makes her a tough nut to crack, so to speak. Why, for example, would she feel she has to EXPLAIN her personal grooming habits to the other swim teachers?

I guess maybe "baby steps" toward your goal of going down on her is what you're left with. Too bad that a few drinks don't loosen her up. I blush to think of some of the things I've agreed to while under the influence . . . 

I'm curious to see what comes out of your MC.


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## Red2 (Apr 28, 2013)

Here is my advice. Everything new in life seems strange and overwhelming until you try it. It took me several years in my twenties to learn giving and receiving oral sex without feeling weird. Maybe you could make a deal with your wife.... tell her you want to try giving her oral at least ten times and if she still doesn't like it by the end of that trial period, you won't ask her again. (For me, an offer of new clothes or shoes or...you get the picture, would also do the trick to try something new.)


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Red2 said:


> Here is my advice. Everything new in life seems strange and overwhelming until you try it.


:iagree:

I'd recommend taking it in baby steps. Try just touching first; tell her you'd like to feel how soft she is and you'll only touch her there for 5 minutes. If you do that a few times, she might be able to start relaxing about being touched. 

Maybe then you can then increase the length of time a bit. Once she's ok with that, suggest that you touch her there while your head is on her thigh. No oral, just close by enough that she can get used to your mouth being near her vagina. And keep taking the baby steps, slowly over time...kissing the top of her thigh, kissing on the outside only, in the dark...however fast or slow she needs to take it.


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## PzykoticBreak (Jun 4, 2013)

Speaking of Saran Wrap, there is something of that equivalent on the market. I believe it's called a dental dam. It's sort of a square piece of latex and is available in various flavors. Just thought I'd mention it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

PzykoticBreak said:


> Speaking of Saran Wrap, there is something of that equivalent on the market. I believe it's called a dental dam. It's sort of a square piece of latex and is available in various flavors. Just thought I'd mention it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Heard of that. I always thought it was for bjs, and I've never had one in my hands. Have you ever used one?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Safer Oral Sex - Dental Dams | Information for Teens

Suggested prophylactic for safer cunilingus...

Do a google image search for dental dams... You'll find quite a range from cringe worth dental pics to eroticly suggestive images. Since this is your wife, I think cling wrap would do the trick.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Cletus said:


> She is highly and at one time in the past multiply orgasmic as long as the restricted script is followed.
> 
> I'm no longer willing to stick to the script, so I'm looking for ways to successfully introduce more variety.


Have you tried following the script to give her her orgasm and *then* introducing variation?

I know for me, after an orgasm or two I reach a state of arousal where I would pretty much go along with anything.

Mind you, I took to oral like a duck to water, so YMMV.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

MissScarlett said:


> You know what they say about oral being like pizza. When its great - its great! But when its not so hot -- eh -- its still pretty darned good!


have to disagree. bad oral is bad can't even enjoy it if the person isn't into giving and is just doing it to shut you up.

frozen pizza is bad and would rather eat PB&J.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

There's no real benefit to a dental dam that you can't get from the saran wrap that's already in your kitchen. They are both clumsy and totally unsexy. But the intention behind using them is edgy so it makes up for it.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

My goodness Cletus; you've been married 27 years, never any oral either way, and you've just now come to the end of your rope?

You have certainly been a patient man. I think you may have a tough job explaining to your wife; Why now?

That said, only you can decide if this a deal breaker. But if you're wife is willing to "work" with you on this - counseling, intimacy exercises, taking it slow, whatever; I think that would be a good start.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I am sure some women have overcome it. It seems you knew she was not into this at all before you married. Some people are very stuck in their ways and will simply never be into it. This could be the case for your wife. 

Some women despise it, have psych. issues with it or just think it's dirty or are concerned w/ their taste, etc so they simply will not go there.

I am not one of them. To me, there is nothing better.  So it is a very personal thing. Sounds like your wife is just not into it at all.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

badmemory said:


> My goodness Cletus; you've been married 27 years, never any oral either way, and you've just now come to the end of your rope?


:rofl:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

badmemory said:


> My goodness Cletus; you've been married 27 years, never any oral either way, and you've just now come to the end of your rope?
> 
> You have certainly been a patient man. I think you may have a tough job explaining to your wife; Why now?
> 
> That said, only you can decide if this a deal breaker. But if you're wife is willing to "work" with you on this - counseling, intimacy exercises, taking it slow, whatever; I think that would be a good start.


The "why now" is the result of - 

1. The nest has recently emptied. The children are off to college, and I have fulfilled my primary obligation as an involved parent in their raising. I no longer have to automatically put aside my needs for their benefit.

2. I have been recently afflicted with a mild case of Peyronie's disease. It's not so bad that intercourse is difficult, but it has changed the functioning of the only tool in the shed. I want at least one alternative to PIV intercourse, both as a backup and for variety. 

3. I'm bored in the bedroom, and while this has always been true, I've always managed to keep my desire for my wife. I've noticed that this isn't so true any more. Too many years of an unsatisfying sex life has finally taken a toll on my desire.

4. I'm almost 50. I can see the end of my sex life on the horizon. I'm not sure I want it to end this way.

Is oral sex a deal breaker? Not in a million years. What's become the possible deal breaker is the numbing sameness of the sexual straight jacket that is my marriage. I'm trying to loosen up just one arm to see if it's even possible. I've tried manual stimulation with no success - and no interest in further experimentation. Same with toys. I'm running out of options.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> I am sure some women have overcome it. It seems you knew she was not into this at all before you married.


Well, not quite. Young dumb naive kids in their 20's who are told that sex is reserved for marriage don't always understand what questions to ask before the ring goes on. 

I am fully on board with the personal preference thing. I like the "try it 10 times" contract suggestion - if it isn't her thing, so be it. I haven't figure out yet how to overcome the initial revulsion to even give it a try.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Have you ever told her you really REALLLLLLLLLLLLY want to do it and to please let you try it! Life is short! Tell her!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

This thread is interesting to me. Because I am so to the contrary. Honestly if a guy wouldn't do it, it'd be a sexual dealbreaker for me. No dice. Do not pass go. Do not collect $100. You're fired. Lol.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Have you ever told her you really REALLLLLLLLLLLLY want to do it and to please let you try it! Life is short! Tell her!


Not exactly. I've definitely said I would like to, just not with as many Ls. This place seems to universally agree that begging is a counterproductive turn-off.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Not exactly. I've definitely said I would like to, just not with as many Ls.


:lol:

Tell her emphatically that you realllllllllllllly want to do it. 
It's not begging to state what you want, dear.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Don't have any advice but just wanted to chime in because I don't like oral (on me) either. 

I didn't start out that way though. I used to love it.

My aversion happened after one too many comments from husband about smelling or tasting funny down there. If he hates it then he can just keep his mouth away. 

Now if (VERY rare) he tries, I can't relax and can't enjoy it because the entire time I'm wondering if he is holding back a gag, or thinks I'm disgusting.

So maybe she is just worried that you will smell or taste something down there, that you won't like. I know that no matter how much my husband tells me that he doesn't mind, I will never believe him anymore. 

So maybe her problem is she is just worried about you being down there. I don't know. But just make sure any progress you make you respond with enthusiasm. Remind her how much you love her, and how much you like it. Make it about you, and take the focus off of her.


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## coupdegrace (Oct 15, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Not exactly. I've definitely said I would like to, just not with as many Ls. This place seems to universally agree that begging is a counterproductive turn-off.


Have you tried telling her that this could possibly spice things up and keep things fresh, or does she just not care and brush your requests and suggestions aside? Perhaps you're not adamant enough about trying new things... and please don't take offense. I'm just speculating.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Cletus said:


> The "why now" is the result of -
> 
> 1. The nest has recently emptied. The children are off to college, and I have fulfilled my primary obligation as an involved parent in their raising. I no longer have to automatically put aside my needs for their benefit.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you can fashion a "husband to wife" version of these explanations to your wife. They all are very legitimate. 

Talk to her and help her understand how important this is to you.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Don't have any advice but just wanted to chime in because I don't like oral (on me) either.
> 
> I didn't start out that way though. I used to love it.
> 
> ...


The next time he tries please let him and put those thoughts out of your head. If he does say something then tell him thats why you dont like it. I wish my wife would let me go down on her. I would do it until I developed lock jaw.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Don't have any advice but just wanted to chime in because I don't like oral (on me) either.
> 
> I didn't start out that way though. I used to love it.
> 
> ...


Awful. My stbx was somewhat like that. My bf before him loved giving me oral. But the H seemed to be nitpicky. He wouldn't come out and say he didn't like the smell, taste whatever but he would indicate it in subtle ways, or he would complain that he could feel some miniscule amount of stubble. Afterwards he would always run to the bathroom and wash out his mouth for 5 minutes  After a while it really affected my sexual confidence.

My next lover - if I ever find one - will have to be enthusiastic about it or I'll be moving on.

But anyway- OP is it possible she was with a guy before you who gave her a complex about her body? Those ideas didn't form by themselves.

Have you had a bath or shower together first so there is no concern about cleanliness? Kissing her down there through her panties? Kissing and licking her inner thighs? I think you'd have to move very slowly, going a bit further each time you have sex.

It took a while to 'teach' my H what I wanted him to do down there. There is no way to know what type of techniques an individual woman likes until she tells you- we are all different. It takes some trial and error for each couple.

How about flavored lubes? Maybe the kind that are cooling or heat up?

From what you said this may be out of the question but a Brazilian wax could help. Better than shaving- it does make you anxious to share the smoothness. And getting it done pretty much requires you to get over any shyness about your p*ssy. Seriously the women she teaches swimming with are going to eyeball her pubic mound and then quiz her about it? 

It seems weird to me that she is that orgasmic with PIV sex but doesn't like other forms of stimulation. Sorry to bring this up but are you sure she isn't faking it during intercourse?


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

--- 4. I'm almost 50. I can see the end of my sex life on the horizon. I'm not sure I want it to end this way. ---

Wow. I'm almost 50, too. I definitely do NOT see the end of my sex life on the horizon. That is a very sad statement, my friend.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Don't have any advice but just wanted to chime in because I don't like oral (on me) either.
> 
> I didn't start out that way though. I used to love it.
> 
> ...


I hope you told him his junk smells funky and you just CAN'T force yourself.......

the woodchuck


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

I know it may be whipping a dead horse (no reflection on the little woman). 

But what if the next couple of times you two are intimate, don't even mention oral, but get your face a little closer to ground "zero" and casually comment on how intoxicating and intriguing her scent is, and how only a man can appreciate it......let her know that it really arouses you......

Nothing too overt, but more complimentary each time....Let her know "The scent of a woman" is a really good thing.....

Also have you tried roofies? (just kidding)...

the woodchuck


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Cletus said:


> Not exactly. I've definitely said I would like to, just not with as many Ls. This place seems to universally agree that begging is a counterproductive turn-off.


I don't know what Ls means? I haven't read all of these replies... I am a woman who has overcome every sexual inhibition I ever had. Including both orals. In my case, it was too much religious/conservative thinking, associating these acts with porn/ strippers ...it's not like the married were talking about the JOYS of marital sex -this beauty & expression of ORAL... what a shame! 

My husband started going DOWN early in our marriage... . I remember it being intensely sensitive... he would keep trying to do this .....slithering down my body.....and *my mind was totally screwing the experience.*....it was a recurring....."How can he stand this, ewwww, what if I taste bad...smell bad "...instead of just focusing on the sensations....relaxing... giving in to it..even if "just for him"...I did sometimes.. 

Looking back, I feel my husband could have done more here to help me... he was far too quiet in bed.... Love him to tears....but I really feel had he expressed verbally his want, his lust for this...talking me up...arousing the idea in my mind, a little flirting/ teasing.... speaking his wanting to go there...this could have calmed my raging mind.... allowing me to relax more ...

Just hearing how MUCH, how high, how deeply, how wide this sexual act meant to him...(cause it was UP there)....... Us not communicating our deep lusts in an arousing way (outside of just touch) - I feel was a part of my remaining STUCK, stagnant in my repression in many ways. 

Although unspoken back then....his view has always been..."My touch - (in this case his tongue)... should speak a 1000 words"... 

Had I been one of those women who orgasmed this way... I'm pretty sure I would have overcome quite quickly...like the first time.....but this was never me.... PIV is 99.9 % ....never miss... but oral.... I can only count 2 times in the last 23 yrs ... I think he does a great job, has tried a variety of techniques even...feels amazingly but I like the DEEP...I know it's something he wishes he could give me..... it's mainly our foreplay. 

These days, I'd be upset if he DIDN'T want to go there, so that is how much I have overcome....yet still I struggle to orgasm ...

I don't know the answer, I see you say it's not a religious hang up but maybe the ICKY hang up. That would be outside my experience. 

I agree though, asking / begging is not the ticket...finding a way to arouse her senses, to be "open" to it...to allow you in...is the way to go....


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## Hungryman (Aug 11, 2013)

Cletus,

I feel for you man.
This same issue has come up with my wife in the last 8 months or so. She is not having it, and I for some reason have become nearly obsessed with it. I will bring the topic up every now and again, and it usually ends up feeling like I am interrogating her about why she is not even willing to try. To this point, she had just been making various excuses and giving me time frames or scenarios where there would be a chance of it happening. But today she finally told me that I need to drop it, that it's "not going to happen." Now, this on the surface seems like a sudden and extreme proclamation, but I will have to say that in our nearly 19 years together ( 17 married ), our sex life has had periods of extremes - from constant, vigorous and intense ( when trying to get pregnant ), to strictly on the weekends/minimal foreplay/almost always missionary ( current prolonged state ). She has gone done on me ( however briefly ) probably 5 times in our 19 years, three of those in the last 6 months. She has allowed me to go down on her twice - and stopped me each time within a minute. Therapy is off the table ( "that is nobody's business but ours" is her reasoning ). So now on top of this all coming to a head, sometimes I am racked with guilt over just wondering about cheating. I fear, only in my mid 40's, that the end is near - unless I pick up with someone else ...


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## gumtree (Jun 1, 2013)

This thread is interesting, sorry I had to resurrect it. I don't know if my experience would work on your wife Cletus but it is a recent revelation to me I thought I'd share. I never really liked receiving or giving oral overly and no man had ever really shown enthusiasm for giving it to me. I had 'allowed' a couple of men to go down on me but it was a pretty unrewarding experience for all involved and only served to convince me that it must be unpleasant for men, or that I was even - worst fear - more unpleasant down there than other women. 

My ex-husband expressed interest, and did it a few times but it was still a bit of a non-event. He is a nice-guy beta man and never pushed the issue. However I recently started a FWB thing (probably too-soon etc etc but talking about oral sex here lol) who made no bones about the fact he wanted to go down on me, saying he wanted to taste me. 

After a couple of times with me pushing his head away from my groin at each attempt to slither in that direction, he 'got serious' with me. One evening, right after I had showered, we were making out on the bed when he knelt between my legs, frowned, looked me very sternly in the eye and said "this has to be done" as he pulled my panties off, which made me laugh. And then he started kissing all around the area. Every time I went to push his head away he held my wrists and murmured that this was for him not for me. I trust him and know that if I had gotten truly upset he would have stopped, but he just resisted my discomfort with the idea by reassuring me and pushing back over my protests. As he got there I sort of reflexively clamped my legs and he gently forced them apart several times and held them firmly as he started to kiss me in the cleft, moaning his pleasure at getting there finally. The combination of the sensation, the gentle domination and the obvious enjoyment he was getting from it made me wonder if in fact this could be very nice if I would just bloody relax. I peered anxiously at him for a few moments but he seemed to be in heaven so I lay back. I didn't orgasm but I came damn close and since then have cum several times from oral he gives me, which is a first. He simply loves it and will happily do it for ages with no payback expected, although of course I do. I was so keen to reciprocate and found myself really enjoying giving a bj for the first time. I'd never minded it overly but now I'm gagging to do it (excuse the pun). Suddenly I'm fantasising about 2 acts that I had never really been that into before, I have gained some new sexual confidence. 

The approach of a man to these matters can make a big change in my desire. The difference I've experienced is a man who firstly brings an element of authority to the bedroom which is a real turn on, and secondly clearly communicates his own sexual enjoyment. My previous partners were fairly quiet in bed for the most part, but the verbal praise and noises I now hear show me that I am blowing his mind (among other things) which is a massive turn on and makes it such a pleasure to give and receive. 

I truly hope you can get over the line with this Cletus, but I don't know. I just shared what changed my mind on the topic. Best of luck to you!


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

I don't think that resurrecting a thread, especially one that's only a few months old, is a bad thing if more people can offer thoughts that might help.

I read through the posts as much as I have time for (thankfully it's only a few pages of them), but one thing that I noticed without reading all of them is that there is a focus on body image and sexuality issues. 

There are a couple of things in your posts, Cletus, that made me think that this is actually an emotional intimacy issue. A lot of people associate the word intimacy with sexual intimacy, but emotional intimacy is allowing someone to see deeply into us and sharing ourselves much more deeply than "just sex". It sounds like she has a defensive perimeter, if you will, or a zone beyond which she is unable to let you in. 

One possibility is that oral sex, to her, is a much more intimate act than PIV sex, or that she has simply allowed herself to compartmentalize PIV sex and not associate it with emotional intimacy. Allowing you to give her oral sex requires letting her guard down and letting you in beyond that emotional perimeter. It requires becoming much more emotionally intimate with you.

If so, then you may have more success by approaching this as a couples issue (as opposed to her issue). You may find that approaching this as an "emotional wall" may be more fruitful. It's something to think about, anyway.

Best of luck to you.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

My wife, like many other women, prefers to receive rather than give oral. That's fine with me as I actually enjoy going down on her more than I like getting head. 

Perhaps the women that don't want it feel as if they have a hygiene issue? Just a guess, of course. But that may be it. How about taking a shower together and then going down on her in there or immediately afterwards? That will at least tell you if she has a hang up about her possible odor, if it exists or not.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

gumtree said:


> This thread is interesting, sorry I had to resurrect it. I don't know if my experience would work on your wife Cletus but it is a recent revelation to me I thought I'd share. I never really liked receiving or giving oral overly and no man had ever really shown enthusiasm for giving it to me. I had 'allowed' a couple of men to go down on me but it was a pretty unrewarding experience for all involved and only served to convince me that it must be unpleasant for men, or that I was even - worst fear - more unpleasant down there than other women.
> 
> My ex-husband expressed interest, and did it a few times but it was still a bit of a non-event. He is a nice-guy beta man and never pushed the issue. However I recently started a FWB thing (probably too-soon etc etc but talking about oral sex here lol) who made no bones about the fact he wanted to go down on me, saying he wanted to taste me.
> 
> ...


I think I love you...


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