# Wife, wants the love of her life....WTF



## clairebear

Hi Everyone, I have been on this site for quit awhile and finally decided to post! I'm at loss and any feed back is welcome!

I been married for about 10 years, we had ups and downs but I always been thinking we had a good marriage, wife had a 6 years relationship with someone else, I met her after their break up and two years later we got married. Through the years I could see that my wife was often depressed and would cry for no apparent reason, when I would ask her about it she should tell was cause she never really forgot her ex bf and how she still loved him, she was always open about it, we went to MC multiple times over this issue and every time I would think this time it will be ok... well apparently not!!!!! A few weeks ago I found out that she has been what I believe started as an EA and it may not be a PA, she does not deny it and tells me he is/was always the love of her life and that no matter what this time they not giving up on each other!!!! WTF!!!!!!!

Let me add this guy is bi polar, lives with his parents still and besides my wife has only had one gf all his life!!!!! I confronted him after find out and he had the nerve to tell me " she is mine and I'm fighting for her she is the love of my life" I just wanted to punch is romeo face, don't know how I controlled myself!!!!!

I'm enraged, hurt and still love my wife, I don't want to lose her to this POS!!!!

Any input is welcome!!!

PS - My nickname is my daughter's favourite bed time story.


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## Mike11

Hi Clairbear

I am sorry you are in this situation, it is not an easy one for sure, I know you are not going to like what I tell you, Your wife is an adult and as such, I doubt you have any power to change her mind.

IMHO there is no other course of action other then confronting her and presenting the options to her, either commit to your marriage, or you file for divorce imediatly and let her go.

Honestly I dont thing there is not much that you can do to change her mind, she needs to face the reality of breaking up her family over a fantasy that may very well blow up in her face, you need to protect yourself and your child 

read this

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html


It will give you some understanding 

Stay strong


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## Indy Nial

There is zero, nada, nothing that you can do. Let her go, its clear that this has been eating away at your relationship and even if she changed her mind would you ever believe her?!

You need to get on with your life, be strong, let her have her 'true love' but you can't continue a relationship with someone who isn't commited.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alex2400

She will go back to him he obviously has issues move into his parents basement and then the dose of reality will sink in when its to late.

My wife with a guy she thinks is perfect yet she recently asked me for money to drive back from this guys house because she didnt have enough petrol nor did this guy have the money to give her because of his own problems. 

I know what you mean about wanting to punch them square in the face I mean which guy wouldnt, but when you move on and find someone who is better for you her life will be the one turning upside down and life will seem to get that bit more brighter for you.


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## lordmayhem

I know you don't want to hear this, but your whole marriage has been a lie. If you've been on this site and reading the various stories here, then you know that you cannot make her love you. She's been in love with this OM, her ex bf, your whole marriage, you were only her back up plan when she broke up with her ex bf. There's another thread on here that's very similar to yours right here.

What now?

In your case, your WW has admitted to you that she loved OM all along. I suspect that over the years you have already tried to compete with OM, by trying to show her you're the better man and all that, and it hasn't worked. You should also know that from reading stories here, that you cannot compete with the OM. She has long ago convinced herself that he is the love of her life, exactly what she told you. 

You deserve to be married to woman who views YOU as the love of her life. Right now, you are only the steady guy she married who raises the children and pays the bills while she continues loving her OM. Now, you have to take steps to let her go, read up on the links in my signature, especially the one about "Just Let Them Go" my morituri. 

Another thing, how sure are you that this is just an EA? From what you've said, this OM is in the local area since you've been able to confront him face to face. When two people are in love with each other this long, I sincerely doubt its not been a PA all along. This OM has been there in her heart your whole marriage so I have to say something else that you may not want to hear. Are you sure you're the father of your daughter? Have you had a paternity test done? 

You deserve to have a faithful wife who only loves one man as her husband, YOU. You are no one's back up. You are no cuckold. You need to stop living in this hell of LIMBO. Letting her go is not losing to the OM, its about you letting go a WW who doesn't love you. You already know OM is a loser who lives in his parent's basement or whatever. You're already superior to him. Let her go, let her see the reality of what it's going to be like with him. It's time to tell her to leave and start the D process.


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## bryanp

Why would you wish to stay married to a woman who clearly loves another man? If the roles were reversed I doubt that she would want to stay with you. Do not waste your time. Time to move on and find someone else who can truly commit and love you as a spouse. Good luck.


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## LovesHerMan

She needs to be told that if she wants to keep her family, she must cut this man out of her life. She is lost in the fantasy of who she thinks he is, not the reality that she cannot save him from himself. If she wants you, she has to write him a no contact letter. She has to be completely transparent with all of her communications and whereabouts to you. She has to show true remorse, and do everything she can to repair your marriage.

If she does not agree to these things, file the divorce papers. That is the only thing that will wake her up.


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## alphaomega

Fkn rights! If sh loves him so much, then tell her he can have him. And tell her to move out. 

You would be surprised when you meet someone actuall into YOU, and don't have to deal with ths type of crap anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

alphaomega said:


> Fkn rights! If sh loves him so much, then tell her he can have him. And tell her to move out.
> 
> You would be surprised when you meet someone actuall into YOU, and don't have to deal with ths type of crap anymore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:iagree::iagree:

Learn about doing the 180. It may be that once she has to actually face the reallity of divorce and a broken family she may come around. Of course this means she will probably be with the other man for at least a while. It may not work but looks like your only shot at getting him out of her mind. 

Help her pack a bag and change the locks. Reality is a b!tch.

Find the 180, its actually for helping you move on but sometimes works to bring spouses back together. Most importantly make her leave, DO NOT LEAVE YOURSELF. She 's the one cheating. Do not let that loser in your house. 

Good luck and prayers

Chap


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## aug

You're a rebound to her, so it seems. A rebound relationship is a distraction for your wife.

It has been 10 years and is not getting any better for you. Perhaps you should try the opposite approach - let her go.

And you have a daughter so that makes letting her go much harder for you and your child(ren).

But it'll be easier for you, if you prepare yourself financially, legally and mentally, keeping in mind your daughter.

Separate yourself from any of joint bank accounts, credit cards and debts/loans.

Start your own private bank account. 

Research your legal options.


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## Simon Phoenix

What they said.

There are few things in life that are worse than marrying someone who sees you as the cheap imitation to the real thing. You have been playing the role of second-banana ever since you got involved with her. You are only there to pay the bills and play daddy daycare when she needs a break. No matter what you say or do, you will never, EVER get her to think of you in a better light than her ex. In her eyes, he can do no wrong and you're just the substitute teacher, the temp worker who fills in until the other person comes back; then it's to the back of recycle bin you go.

Is that what you want, my man? To spend the rest of your life always looking over your shoulder, wondering what she's up to? Wondering whether she's thinking of him when she's making love to you?

Dude, that's not living. Take it from me and several others here that got badly burned by a spouse who still held a torch for some blast from the past. This does not get better with time; it will only get worse. You cannot make a person love you so your only option is to let her go. Do not stay with a person who doesn't regard you with the same kind of love and passion as you see her. Find a gal who sees you as the hottest thing on two legs; they're out there. Few things are as satisfying as finding that person, having the ex try to come 'back home' after her fantasy with the OM falls apart, only for you to give that person the Heisman pose...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

RWB said:


> cb,
> 
> Probably a PA, Get your Ducks lined up.
> 
> Get checked for STD,
> Have Paternity Test,
> Separate Finances quietly,
> Spy up, VAR, key-logger, Phone Logs,
> Lawyer Up,
> 
> Prepare mentally to Move On.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

All the above. The paternity test will tell you much. Legally you will likely be on the hook no matter who the father is. I get that you love her no matter what. Not the point.

Be prepare to be told once this is all said and done that she is not yours ... even if she is. So best get that tested as the results work both ways for you. You need to know.


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## the guy

As back ward as this sound, stop begging for your marriage and get in the mind set that you are confident to give up your marriage if your WW continues. 

The idea is to empower your self, crying and begging and showing this unconditional love you are empowering your WW to continue. So empower your self by being confident enought to give up you marriage, hopefully making your WW second guess her choices. 
In order to pulll this off you must come to term in letting go of your marriage, b/c if she calls your bluff and you stick around your even more screwed.

Its all about additude and confidence, the tough love and the reality of you moving on with out her. Not saying you have to move on but her perseption of how serious you really are. 

Be warned she may be so fogged in that the both of you could be sitting across from each other in divorce court before she gets it.


kick off gotta go sorry for ther spelling


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## clairebear

Hi Everyone,

Thank you very much everyone who got back to me, I appreciate your advice and insight! This is such a mess, I'm so enraged!!!

I will try to answer all your points without missing any.

The POS lives 8 hours a way, I drove there, wife has a drivers license but does not have a car. Through the years I hired a PI multiple times, checked the computer, phone records you name it, everytime it was an issue I snooped to check if there were any contact, it never was. Two months ago we were where he lives for a wedding (wife's friend and also friend of the POS) that's where they reconnected, apparently he told wife how he never forgot her either, looked for her for years, loves her and this ****!!! Since then they been in contact by phone and cell phone. 

About our children we have a daughter and son (twins) they are from a previous relationship I had, when I met wife I had full custody already, after we got married wife became their legal guardian. She is an awesome mom and the kids love her, she also takes very good care of the house, cleans, cooks, is great with money and is always there for us no matter when we need her. I love her to death and do not want to break our family.

This morning we talked and she begged me to work things out, that she wants to love me and not the OM but needs help, says she wants feel for me what she feels for him, she was also very scared of losing the kids, offered to go to MC and IC, whatever it takes she says!!!! 

I don't know guys, help me out!!! Should I give it a chance????? I don't want to break my family but I no longer want this man in our marriage anymore!!!!


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## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Thank you very much everyone who got back to me, I appreciate your advice and insight! This is such a mess, I'm so enraged!!!
> 
> I will try to answer all your points without missing any.
> 
> The POS lives 8 hours a way, I drove there, wife has a drivers license but does not have a car. Through the years I hired a PI multiple times, checked the computer, phone records you name it, everytime it was an issue I snooped to check if there were any contact, it never was. Two months ago we were where he lives for a wedding (wife's friend and also friend of the POS) that's where they reconnected, apparently he told wife how he never forgot her either, looked for her for years, loves her and this ****!!! Since then they been in contact by phone and cell phone.
> 
> About our children we have a daughter and son (twins) they are from a previous relationship I had, when I met wife I had full custody already, after we got married wife became their legal guardian. She is an awesome mom and the kids love her, she also takes very good care of the house, cleans, cooks, is great with money and is always there for us no matter when we need her. I love her to death and do not want to break our family.
> 
> This morning we talked and she begged me to work things out, that she wants to love me and not the OM but needs help, says she wants feel for me what she feels for him, she was also very scared of losing the kids, offered to go to MC and IC, whatever it takes she says!!!!
> 
> I don't know guys, help me out!!! Should I give it a chance????? I don't want to break my family but I no longer want this man in our marriage anymore!!!!


So she hooked up with her on the trip and now is in contact with him. You have to decide if that is a deal breaker for you or not. It would be for me, but that does not matter. What do you want?


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## joe kidd

I would tell her that if there is to be a chance the OM is out of the picture forever. Tell her you will not be 2nd choice, no way no how. These were things that had to happen in my R. If you want to give her a chance who am I to say you shouldn't? I'm giving mine one. I will tell you though, If the POS OM ever shows back up in her life I'm gone.


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## Eli-Zor

For her to start proving herself , she hand writes a letter of no contact to the OM , you verify the letter and have it delivered such that he signs for it. She disables any Facebook or mail accouts and changes her mobile number thus preventing him from contacting her.

No Contact Letter


Don't go to MC or IC until you verify the affair is dead. 

A side question , were you divorced when you met your current wife?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clairebear

Thanks guys!

Well she talked with POS for about 20 minutes the day of the friend's wedding with my sister in law next to him! I saw them talk from a far but had no clue this was "the guy". My sister in law is a whole story but she is no longer allowed near my wife and my children, the day of the wedding wife told POS that she was married and although had this feelings nothing could come of it and then walked away. Well sister in law gave POS our phone number and wife's cell phone number.

Eli-Zor, Wife agreed to the no contact letter, how should I go from here?????

I was already divorced, my kids are from a 3 year old marriage, wife bailed out when they were 6 months old and I got fully custody as she did not want to have anything to do with the kids. I met my current wife 8 months after my divorce.


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## clairebear

She has no facebook account, I changing phone numbers tomorrow, email address has been clear, no emails nothing from POS and I verified that she only has one email address.


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## bryanp

Do your relatives now know what your sister in law did? What does your brother have to say about this?


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## clairebear

My brother knows but begged me to not "involved them or the family on this" it was his wife who got involved!!!!!! Anyways I have not discuss it with anyone but him and told his ***** of a wife to stay far away from my wife, my children and me!!!! My brother is in denial about his wife, "oh she didn't mean it that way" and other crap like this, she play all innocent, the victim and that I'm the monster, she is/has always been a selfish ***** who for whatever reason has always been very jealous of our life!!!! If she wasn't a woman I would have lost it with her!!!!


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## Chaparral

bryanp said:


> Do your relatives now know what your sister in law did? What does your brother have to say about this?


Could have been her sister?

Good luck CB and prayers for your family staying together and being happy. I think this might have been a good thing in the end because of the unrequited feelings she had.

After all the dude lives in a basement.

Stay strong and stay alert. MC and IC strongly suggested.

Keep temper and sarcasm under complete control and be the rock your family can hang onto.

Chap


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## lordmayhem

clairebear said:


> Eli-Zor, Wife agreed to the no contact letter, how should I go from here?????


Ok, thanks for adding additional information. So you WW is a Stay At Home Mom (SAHM), with no job or car, and your kids are from a previous marriage. Add in the fact that OM lives 8 hours away and in his parents basement or whatever. They only reconnected recently at a wedding, and your toxic SIL gave OM your WWs home phone and cell phone numbers. It seems your situation may not be as bad as you first described, although an EA is already devastating enough. I know that first hand, its hurts so bad to know that your WW has given someone else her heart.

The good thing is you have a chance to recover from this, provided an EA is not a deal breaker for you. In addition to the NC letter, you need to:


If you haven't already, install a keylogger or better yet, quality computer monitoring software like Web Watch, Spy Agent, Spector Pro, etc, on the home computers. These will let you know if your WW attempts to use a secret email account or any other secret account. One of the main tools to cheat are the secret email accounts and secret cell phones.
Buy a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR), you can hide one in your bedroom or wherever else you think she might be using a phone to talk to OM, and it will help you detect if there is a secret cell phone being used.
You need to tell her that she has to rebuild the trust that she has broken. The main way is that she has to be completely transparent. That means handing any and all passwords to all accounts. Of course, you might get the passwords to the accounts that are known, hence the need to install the computer monitoring software to detect any secret ones.
She has to show true remorse, and not try to rug sweep this EA. 
Change both the home phone number and cell phone number as you said. 

Here's a table you can use to see if she's truly remorseful or merely trying to sweep things under the rug. Know this, if you allow her to sweep this under the rug, then you're setting yourself up for future affairs. This guide was made by fighting2survive at the SI forum.


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## clairebear

Thanks Guys!

Well wife gave me the NC letter tonight, I'm feeling like drive 8 hours and deliver it myself!!!! I do want to hit that POS so much!!! 

I am changing home phone and cell phone numbers first thing in the morning.

I got a VAR friday and have it in our bedroom in a place where she will never find it, she only uses the phone in our bedroom.
I also have all the other stuff you mention by advice of the PI I had hired in the past. As far as passwords go I had always had her email password, she barely uses the computer to the extent I have only my work laptop as there were never a need for her to have her own computer, on the rare occasions she uses the computer she uses mine.
She seems very remorseful, doesn't want to love the POS, wants to feel that way for me, begged my forgiveness, assured me she could never leave the kids and I could see how devastated she was by the thought of losing them. 

I'm hurt, enraged but if she is sincere I'm willing to work things out!


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## lordmayhem

Very good. It looks like you're taking decisive action and she appears to be remorseful. It seems that the initial prognosis for R appears good. However, you have to be watching her for a while. Trust but verify. Know that part of the cheater's script is to "fish" for renewed contact. If OM doesn't know your/her number, then the fishing, if done, will come from her. Hopefully, neither of them will attempt to fish.

You might want to call your local police department and inquire about how to go about getting a restraining order or protection order. I don't know what state you're in or the criminal statutes governing ROs/POs, so contact your local PD and see if he can be served with one. I know in my state, you can have a PO served on someone for unwanted contact, stalking, etc. That would work better than confronting him face to face. Also, I would advise against seeing him face to face again, as he could try to call the police on you and say you're threatening him. If you send the NC letter, send it by certified mail, that way he has to sign for it and you know it was received. 

If you've done the reading here, then you know that you're going to ride the emotional roller coaster. One moment you're done with her, the next moment you can't bear to live without her. As time goes by and she's remorseful and transparent, and as trust is slowly rebuilt, the highs and lows of the roller coaster start to flatten out slowly. 

You will eventually have to decide if this is a deal breaker for you, but that time will come in the future. For now, verify, verify, verify.


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## Eli-Zor

> Well wife gave me the NC letter tonight, I'm feeling like drive 8 hours and deliver it myself!!!! I do want to hit that POS so much!!!
> 
> I am changing home phone and cell phone numbers first thing in the morning.


Its a good start, one of the steps of helping ensuring this affair is killed is to together tell her parents and yours of the affair. 

Obtain her agreement if the POSOM contacts her again then she will lay a charge of harassment against him. 

As for your wife falling in love with you,she imagines the OM has and will give her something you do not . Therefore you need to work on yourself, physically , mentally and in paying attention to her. Many woman want an alpha male but they also want a man who listens , cares and says and does things that satisfy them emotionally 

Schedule time with your wife, as if you are dating, try the following :- 

Emotional Needs Questionnaire

Love Busters

A flag for you, it is very rare that a wayward stops contact with the OM directly after confrontation or a NC letter, it is a drug that draws them. You must have an explicit boundary and action plan in place if she does contact him, assume she will or he at the minimum will try renew contact.


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## ArmyofJuan

clairebear said:


> This morning we talked and she begged me to work things out, that she wants to love me and not the OM but needs help,* says she wants feel for me what she feels for him*, she was also very scared of losing the kids, offered to go to MC and IC, whatever it takes she says!!!!


I've been here and I can tell you the only thing that really works is the fear of losing you. From my experience and from the other stories I read the odds of her ending the A for good are pretty slim. Many WS will get desperate and try to R when you first try to pull the rug out from under them but they end up slacking off once the fear subsides. 

You can get her to NC the OM but he will still be in her head and once she is secure with you she will eventually go back to her old mindset. Until she either hates or feels indifferent towards the OM your M will always be in danger. You can make her feel passion for you again by proxy, she has to be afraid of losing you.

She won’t really have the same feelings for you like she does for him until she thinks you will be gone for good and experience the “don’t know what you got until it’s gone” scenario. 

Regardless of what she does or says, she will still be in love with the OM in her head because he is still a fantasy to her. You got to ask yourself can you tolerate that (she can’t force herself to stop feeling for him, only actually being in a failed relationship with him will do that) and has what she already done considered a deal breaker like someone mentioned before? 

If I was in the situation I would make her sweat it out while I make up my mind. She isn’t going anywhere and the more you blow her off, the more she will want you and the more she wants you, the less she’ll want the OM.


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## Jellybeans

ArmyofJuan said:


> I've been here and I can tell you the only thing that really works is the fear of losing you. .
> 
> You can make her feel passion for you again by proxy, she has to be afraid of losing you.
> 
> If I was in the situation I would make her sweat it out while I make up my mind.


BINGO!

This is the ONLY thing that works.

Lose your fear of losing her. Completely. Tell her in no uncertain terms _"I will not live in an open marriage. Either you end all constant with him immediately or I will take approprirate measures to end our relationship, including up to and filing for divorce. This is a non-negotiable. I will not lie to people to cover up to you and I refuse to be in a marriage where there are third parties."_

End of discussion. 

You have to MEAN it though. 

A boundary without consequnces = no boundary.

How you handle this will set the tone for the rest of your relationship.


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## PHTlump

I think you've gotten some very good advice so far. And I'm glad your wife has stated that she wants to be with you and your kids.

But from the brief back story, it seems you're too light on your alpha traits. Crying over another man and admitting it to you is a HUGE, NUCLEAR, IN-YOUR-FACE SH!T TEST. And you failed it. The way you're reacting to this EA is more along the lines of how you should have reacted to her telling you she was still in love with another man.

Read some blogs, starting with Married Man Sex Life by Athol Kay. You need to up your alpha traits and learn how to pass those sh!t tests in order to improve your life and become more attractive to your wife.

Good luck.


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## clairebear

NC letter was mailed this morning to POS!!! My in
laws and brother in law also talk to her this morning, I not sure what the conversation was, my father in law later talked to me and suggested they start taking the kids once a week so we can have date night (something she always asked and I never did in almost 10 years) he also suggested that we should finally go on that honeymoon trip she wanted so much but at the time cause the kids were very small we decided to delay but that since then I have delayed it myself. 

I changed home phone today and tomorrow she will change cell phone number (it's on her name so I couldn't do it myself today) well this morning both my ***** of a sister in law and the POS called her cell phone she told them to not ever contact her again although they both think I'm an evil monster holding her hostage but whatever, she was short with them and right afterwards called me to tell me about the phone call.

She also set MC and IC for both of us next week!!!

I'm reading through the links you guys posted and will ask her to fill the questionaries, I know I have not been a good husband in some areas and want work on it!!!


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## Eli-Zor

I don't want to rain on your optimistic note , you were not present when she was called by the OM , you do not know what they said for all you know she and he made a detailed plan to go underground . While I commend your faith in your wife in her being honest with you I do ask that you do not lull yourself into a false recovery.

When she changes her phone she puts you on the plan so you can see her detailed bill.

Trust and verify , her talking to the OM is not in the trust part , next time assume he will contact her by some means and be ready to deal with him. Be cautiously optimistic , make the changes with yourself so as to remove any reason for her to stray again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

Good news on the NC letter , his happy face should be a sight to behold . You have so far been fortunate in having a wife agree so readily to your requests.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kobo

Your sister in law really grinds my gears.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Ohhh man, this is so sick. Im sorry your going through this. Nothing I can think of about my own situation was worse than teh fact that my W was all to eager to embrace and live in the fantasy world... 

The lost soul mates, wayward lovers, true love, destiny crappola..

everything was painted with movie script/romance novel background.

Sounds like your W has been living in that fantasy world in her head for a long time.

That sucks so bad.

ps. Nice job on not knocking out the OM. Impressive control given the circumstances.


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## clairebear

Eli-Zor, to her I'm showing her I believe her, in my mind I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt, I will keep checking every single avenue and not let my guard down.

She agrees that tomorrow when we change her cell phone number I will be on her plan, we are going to the store together.

I think she is being sincere, however I do believe the POSOM will try to contact her!!! I would bet my money on it!!

I wish I could see is face, it would have been worth the 8 hour trip!!!

Kobo, my sister in law is a miserable piece of ****, she is a selfish hateful woman, my brother is an enabler, I don't know what her problem is, is like she lives to cause havoc in other people's lives.

Pit, thanks!

I'm sorry you had to go through this **** as well, sick is a great word to put a name on it!!!

What both my wife and this POSOM told me could have been a script for any of those crapy movies of "love conquers all" In my case POSOM is living on the fantasy as well. 
You are right when you say it's the worse kind in our situation, knowing that they believe this OM is their true love, their lost love and that once reunited with them life will be perfect, makes me sick!!!!! WTF is wrong with our spouses?????

ps. Man believe me I was shacking, I wanted to beat the crap out of him so much, he had such a nerve...when I think about it I just want to drove 8 hours and smack his face until there's nothing left!


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## clairebear

FIL and MIL took the kids to dinner and will take them to the watch a movie afterwards. We will have some hours alone, I will see how it goes. POSOM has tried to call her cell phone and she got it off, well with me home I wouldn't count on her answering it anyways, let's see after tomorrow with the new number.


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## Chaparral

Keep romancing her if you want to keep her. This can never stop. Its a must- dates, complements, being strong and remember communication or disintegration.

You've been leaving a void in her heart that let someone else in.

Wishing you luck and prayers but its strength, commitment and energy that you need.


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## clairebear

Chapparal, thanks for your words man! I'm trying! We had a very nice dinner and an honest talk, wife asked for my forgiveness again, she sounded, looked remorseful, she said she wants to love me and feel for me what she feels for the POSOM, have with me the life she been dreaming to have with him, it felt like knifes on my heart but I kept my best behavior and guess is good she was this honest!

I printed the questionaries and we will both fill them tomorrow night, brother in law is coming to babysit the kids tomorrow morning (she home schools them) while we go change the cell phone number. Her current cell phone has been kept off by her.

She was also very affectioned with me and well we ended up having sex, I didn't want to, I'm very hurt and alot going inside but at the same time I felt this was the first time in a long time I felt that she really want it!!! Afterwards she told me this was the first time in almost 10 years that I made love to her and didn't just had sex. I'm shocked, never imagine she has felt this way and clearly I need to make some changes, alot to take in!

On other note she asked me to move far away from the POSOM, out of state or at least as far as we can, apparently early today she discussed this with my in laws who told her if I agree they will buy our house so we can have immediately the money to move they will then sell the house and wait for it to be sold as long as it may take.

Well alot to think of and to take in.


----------



## morituri

Great update cb.

Too bad that you and her didn't videotape your love making session and sent it to the OM with the note, 'What did you say about my wife being yours?' Talk about a well deserved kick in the nuts.


----------



## lordmayhem

Keep your guard up. This period that you're in, in the aftermath of the affair, is where one of them will "fish" for renewed contact. You've successfully deflected OM attempt to fish by the OM. Unfortunately, this loser has very little to lose because he has no wife or SO to put any pressure on him. So I doubt that he'll give up so easily, especially since you have a toxic SIL who has no qualms about helping him. 

Also, be wary of your WW and any attempts to fish from her side. As you've read here, you have to take anything your WW says with a huge grain of salt, at least until she's proven herself trustworthy again - and that will take some time. Hopefully for your sake, she's not merely pretending. Now, with him being an ex, who says was the love of her life, she will never completely cut him out of her life emotionally. The fact is, he will always be present, even as a fond memory. And that just plain sucks, that's just the reality of the situation. This is something you'll have to live with if you decide to stay with her. You can't control her feelings and thoughts. So trust, but verify. Actions, not words.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

CB,

Make darn sure you cut out all of the "enablers" from you and your wife's lives.

These toxic people must go..even the ones that you are related too. This sister in law sounds like pure evil.

Sounds like your wife is having a "soul mate" complex. At least that's what I like to call them, it's caused by watching to many Jennifer Aniston movies.

I'm not trying to make light of your situation, you sound like a good guy that just wants to hold his family together. Believe me I understand. 

I hope she doesn't try to meet up with the POSOM....but I would bet she will...keep your guard on high alert!

Additionally, I think Jellybean might have already said this...but you have to be prepared to walk away from her....she has to see what its like if she loses you. I know this will hurt like crazy...but there is just no other way...especially if she still try's to see this other dude.


----------



## lordmayhem

Yup. The soulmate shmoopie thing. I've posted this before, but here's a couple of cartoons made up by a member of another infidelity support site that satirizes the whole soulmate thing.

Soul Mate Shmoopies


----------



## ing

Jellybeans said:


> BINGO!
> 
> 
> 
> You have to MEAN it though.
> 
> A boundary without consequnces = no boundary.
> 
> How you handle this will set the tone for the rest of your relationship.


:iagree:


----------



## clairebear

Morituri, aww man I thought about it, would love see is face :rofl:

Lordmayhem, I'm keeping my guard up, I found more information about POSOM that makes me believe he will not give up, besides living on his parents basement, he works on a local well know store (minimum wage job) after work everyday he goes home and spends his time on the computer, including weekends. Apparently he is planning to move from the basement and move across the country to start a sales business and intents to take my wife!!!! He is claiming to everyone what a monster I am, how they love each other and that he will not give up on her!!! I think I may very likely end up beating the crap out of him, can't believe any man who is a real man would talk about someone else's wife this way!

I know thats why I'm keeping everything in place, not gonna let my guard down, I'm showing her I trust her but in my mind I don't, not until her actions keep showing it to me. Yeah, it sucks, this POSOM will very likely always stay on her mind on way or the other, she told me she wants him out of herself but if nothing else will always be a memory, it pisses me off and I'm figuring out how to deal with it.

GM, I talked with my brother tonight and let him know either he or his wife will have my new home number or her cell phone number, he has my cell if he needs he can contact me that way. I also made clear that once his wife is enemy of marriage she is not allowed near my wife, our children or me, brother gave the crap that "maybe they really love each other and I should let them be happy" WTF I didn't bother answer as he clearly has is mind made by his ***** of a wife, I just told him to keep his opinions to himself and if he is not able to respect my marriage either then I won't be able to have a relationship with him either!

Right on the money, wife loves lifetime movies and all the hollywood romantic crap, one of her most recent "I love this movie" it was Water for Elephants. :scratchhead:

I know, we only have one car as she doesn't like to drive but we have my brother in laws house key (related to keep an eye on his dogs when he is not around) anyways he has two cars, my fear has been she may go there while I'm and he is at work and take one of the cars, I asked brother in law to not let the key where he usually does and where she knows it is, anyways I'm keeping a close look at that.

I was very clear with my in laws today that although I'm willing to work this out, if she keeps contact with him or worse I will be filling for divorce and full custody. I'm sure they told her, if nothing else she is terrified of losing the kids.


----------



## clairebear

Lordmayhem, thanks for the laugh man :rofl:


----------



## cb45

clairebear said:


> Eli-Zor, to her I'm showing her I believe her, in my mind I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt, I will keep checking every single avenue and not let my guard down. _This kinda contradicts this following stmt/sentence:_
> 
> I think she is being sincere, however I do believe the POSOM will try to contact her!!! I would bet my money on it!! _YOU are too quick to place onus of
> blame on him. take a real, i said real good look at yer W._
> 
> ps. Man believe me I was shacking, I wanted to beat the crap out of him so much, he had such a nerve...when I think about it I just want to drove 8 hours and smack his face until there's nothing left!


_Again, further proof of my point of stop majorly blaming him.
She knows/loves(?) u, He didnt/doesnt. stop the manly cop
out of focusing all/most of yer anger on him, tho' agreed some
is due....his way._



chapparal said:


> You've been leaving a void in her heart that let someone else in.THis is only partially true; dont let it set u up as to be the
> loser tho'.





morituri said:


> Great update cb.
> 
> Too bad that you and her didn't videotape your love making session and sent it to the OM with the note, 'What did you say about my wife being yours?' Talk about a well deserved kick in the nuts.


 I know i shouldnt agree with this one, but have to admit, its darn effective if u wanna plant some stinkbombs in their sex life
they are fantasizing as better than marriage one/sex life.



Geoffrey Marsh said:


> CB,
> 
> 
> Sounds like your wife is having a "soul mate" complex. At least that's what I like to call them, it's caused by watching to many Jennifer Aniston movies.
> 
> I'm not trying to make light of your situation, you sound like a good guy that just wants to hold his family together. Believe me I understand. _This may be your deep down real motivation for making this junk
> work. u need to really dig deep and see if IT is so. If so, then
> u need to contemplate both sides of the realities of whether its
> really worth it or not, long run for u. u'd hate to wake up yrs
> later n feel that u r not happy, cheated yerself, etc. read many other posts here, u'll c what i mean._
> 
> 
> God's blessings to u.


----------



## Kobo

Can't believe your brother said that. I would have left him with a "you better control your woman or I will do it for you". That's some BS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

Ok I could use some real quick advice, POSOM drove all night and is parked two blocks away from my home!!!!!!!!! WTF WTF!!!! 
My brother in law just saw him, I'm guessing cause my wife kept her phone off he just drove all the way here!!!!!!! I want to go there and solve this my way!!!! You this POS thinks he is?????? I cannot believe he had the nerve to come here!!!!!!!


----------



## Whip Morgan

Any violence initiated by you will only be bad..for you. Who knows what this guy will do, but make sure you don't START anything violent....Got a VAR you can keep on you?


----------



## tacoma

Where is your wife?

She needs to deal with him preferably with you present.


----------



## morituri

Your wife's suggestion that the two of you move away from toxicville may not be a bad one. It may not be a total solution but it would make it very hard for her and the OM to get together and easier for you to continue planting pleasant memories like your recent intimate session where she remarked that you made love to her and not just simply had sex with her.

Besides his classic book "His Needs, Her Needs", Dr Willard Harley has another one called "Love Busters" in which he expands on the destructive behaviors he briefly touched on "HN,HN" like angry outbursts, disrespectful behavior, etc. which kill romantic love and leave spouses vulnerable and more likely to cross marital boundaries which often lead to an affair. You may learn quite a bit from it.


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## clairebear

Wife is giving kids their breakfast as brother in law was going to watch them while we were going to the store, right now I'm not sure what to do!!!! I don't think I can control myself in his presence!!! We did not told wife he is here and brother in law suggested he makes some excuse to go out and goes and talks to him, I don't want to talk I want to beat him up!

I think you are probably right as he now knows where we live and dares to come here!!!! 8 hours is clearly not far away enough!!

I will be getting two copies of both books and make sure she reads hers.


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## tacoma

Let your brother in-law deal with it for the moment.
Have him get rid of the OM.

Honestly I don`t see how you injecting yourself into it can lead to anything but an assault charge.


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## clairebear

Your right!!! It's just the urge to beat the crap out of him is so strong!!! I will let my brother in law go talk with pile of human trash and try to remain as calm as I can!!! Don't want wife to know he is here!!!


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## tacoma

Just stay calm man, I understand your desire to pummel him.
I'm not sure I'd be able to take my own advice even though I know I'd regret it.

Keep us posted
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

Call out sick today

I'd bet a lot that despite your BIL's efforts that POSOM will stick around to wait until you are gone or visit her work (don't know if she's a SAHM or not)

If he shows up, do NOT get physical with him!!


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## Scottt

If POSOM already received the no-contact letter, this would count as stalking. You should call your local cops ASAP, and they'll send someone to talk to him.


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## Entropy3000

You definitely need to call in sick today.

You need a restraining order. He is stalking your wife now. He is waiting for you to leave.

From her comments she is still in the fog. She should not under any circumstances see him alone. She really should not see him at all.

From what you describe he could actually try to kidnap your wife. He may have a weapon. he may be capable of hurting you, your wife and / or himself.

You need a restraining order.

One huge problem as you have stated is that you have members in the extended family that are enablers of all of this. That absolutely amazes me.

He would be very stupid to enter your home, even if she invites him in. But then again, he drove all this way.


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## clairebear

POSOM does not want to talk!!!! Only to my wife and alone!!! Refuses to leave unless he talks to her alone!!! BIL and I will call sick today, I'm in no condition of going to work and BIL does not want to leave me alone!!! WTF WTF WTF!!! 

BIL will call his friend in law enforcement and see what he says.


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## tacoma

clairebear said:


> NC letter was mailed this morning to POS!!!


Posted yesterday.
The OM hasn`t received the NC letter as of yet.

Not that it matters, he`s probably there because she went dark.
Hopefully.


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## tacoma

clairebear said:


> POSOM does not want to talk!!!! Only to my wife and alone!!! Refuses to leave unless he talks to her alone!!! BIL and I will call sick today, I'm in no condition of going to work and BIL does not want to leave me alone!!! WTF WTF WTF!!!
> 
> BIL will call his friend in law enforcement and see what he says.


Your BIL is a smart man.

You`re going to have to let the wife know he`s here since he`s not leaving of his own accord.

She should tell him to get lost but NOT ALONE!

Have your BIL walk out to his car with her and have her tell him it`s done over and to leave her alone.


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## clairebear

Yes, I believe it was because yesterday she kept her phone off and the day before told him to not call her again, she said the same thing to my SIL who probably told him she doesn't want to talk to her either .


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## tacoma

Pay attention to her actions after all this is over.
Keep an eye on her phone, computer, whatever.

The emotional pull this act will have on her is going to be strong.

It`ll be a great barometer into her true feelings.


----------



## Almostrecovered

tacoma said:


> Your BIL is a smart man.
> 
> You`re going to have to let the wife know he`s here since he`s not leaving of his own accord.
> 
> She should tell him to get lost but NOT ALONE!
> 
> Have your BIL walk out to his car with her and have her tell him it`s done over and to leave her alone.


if you do this she will have to be down right cruel and mean to him, any wavering or signs of empathy to him and he will assume she is being coerced- I'm not sure she'd be a willing accomplice at this point to do that. (what a true litmus test it would be however)

she basically has to tell him flat out- "I don't ever wish to see or hear from you again. I don't love you and I am choosing my husband over you because he is my true love. If you continue to try to contact me, I will call the police and get a lawyer to put a restraining order on you. "


----------



## tacoma

Almostrecovered said:


> if you do this she will have to be down right cruel and mean to him, any wavering or signs of empathy to him and he will assume she is being coerced- I'm not sure she'd be a willing accomplice at this point to do that. (what a true litmus test it would be however)


You may be right but anything else would be cruel and mean to clairebear.
What to do?



> she basically has to tell him flat out- "I don't ever wish to see or hear from you again. I don't love you and I am choosing my husband over you because he is my true love. If you continue to try to contact me, I will call the police and get a lawyer to put a restraining order on you. "


She has effectively already told him this in the NC letter.
Y`know, the one that`s still in the hands of the USPS somewhere.



Akk...irony...


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## Almostrecovered

even if psycho OM got the letter I'd bet he would still be doing this. He's obviously got it in his head that she is the "one" and must do anything and everything to "save" her.


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## Gabriel

GRRRR, this makes me so mad!!

What is it with POSOMs that make them behave like leeches that never, ever LEAVE!!

He has the audacity to demand to speak to her alone? Never allow this - it is the chance he is looking for to convince her to leave you. Since you can't forcibly remove him from that spot, I guess you could call the police and let them know he is there, and why. If that doesn't work, I think the only thing that will is time. After awhile he will get really sick of waiting there, getting no attention.

Ugh, this pisses me off.


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## clairebear

BIL called FIL and asked him to come pick the kids, he will be here in 15/20 minutes, BIL told wife it's just a change of plans, once the kids are gone we will tell her.

His friend on law enforcement said that at this point there's not much they can do, there's no trespassing, the street is a public domain, he is not being violent, at this point is not considered stalking and once very likely my SIL was the one who gave him the address, she clearly does not she him as dangerous!!! He thinks we should let my wife deal with him!!!

As you all can imagine I don't want her near him!!!


----------



## tacoma

I really think she's going to have to deal with him.
This is her mess and he's not going to stoP until he hears it frOM her.

In no way should you allow them to be alone and you're too emotionally messed to do it with her.

She's not a child tell her what's going on and see how she wants to deal with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhereAmI

Have your wife call his mother. She must express that she is scared and feeling threatened by his presence. She needs to make it clear that she is in love with you and will be filing a restraining order if he continues his stalker like behavior. Allow his mother to give him the message. He needs to start seeing consequences or I'm afraid he won't give up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

WhereAmI said:


> Have your wife call his mother. She must express that she is scared and feeling threatened by his presence. She needs to make it clear that she is in love with you and will be filing a restraining order if he continues his stalker like behavior. Allow his mother to give him the message. He needs to start seeing consequences or I'm afraid he won't give up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with this. It makes no sense to me that your wife even with BIL goes to where this guy is at and interactes with him in anyway. 

If there is contact I suggest your BIL hand this guy the no contact letter and tell him that she is married to you and that he is pursuing a married woman who wants him to go away. catering to him is a very bad idea. 

I'll be honest with you. I would not at all allow my wife to see this guy, even with the BIL. I would go too if it was decided for him to see them. He needs to see you with her. She needs to be holding onto you in a loving manner. They would have to be at least ten feet apart. In fact I would insist the OM staty in his car. No hugging or any show of affection. No, I will always love you. No handshakes. No tearful goodbyes. See I do not think this is possible. So I say do not cater to him. Her seeing him will only rekindle her affections for him, no matter how this goes down. You run the risk of her begging you in front of him for her to be able to keep seeing him. In any event he no matter what was said, he would take this as encouragement.

Again I would have the BIL hand him the NC letter and tell him to go away. If he stalks the wife and goes near the home he is risking harm. That is legitimate as he has no right to approach the home. I would get a restraining order so if something does go down there is documentation.

I do not think he will give up. But again I do not think your wife seeing will do anything but make this worse.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Your wife does not talk to this man not even in the company of others. All of you move temporarily to your FIL or BIL house and settle down a while. Under no circumstance do you let this man near your wife nor do you waver on your boundaries .

Control the drama don't let it control you. Have you or your BIL actualy seen the OM or is it people who have seen a car similar to his. Be very clear of facts not stories , if you have seen him call his mother , be calm , let her know that your wife has written a no contact letter and is more than willing to lay a harassment charge against him.

Talk to your wife , what you do not want is her seeing him as a knight comming to rescue her , an infatuation can do that . Go to the police yourself with your wife and enquire what steps are required for you to charge him with harassment .I doubt much will come out of this however your wife being with you and supporting the enquiry goes a long way . Don't exaggerate nor add in details unless they are know facts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

Wife does not want to talk or see him. BIL thinks she needs to her cell phone on and when he calls her (BIL assumes he is trying) answer and tell him he needs to leave and it's over!

I think it may be a very good idea talk to his mother or father whoever picks the phone but BIL doesn't think will do any good once POSOM refuses to listen anything unless he talks to my Wife!!!


----------



## tacoma

He isn`t going away until he speaks with your wife.

She is an adult, let her call him or confront him or whatever but he isn`t going away otherwise.


----------



## Almostrecovered

tacoma said:


> He isn`t going away until he speaks with your wife.
> 
> She is an adult, let her call him or confront him or whatever but he isn`t going away otherwise.



I disagree, let him wait and waste away his day. If he attempts to go into the house you then can call the police for tresspassing.


----------



## Eli-Zor

It does not matter if he does not listen to his parents , once they are aware of his behaviour and the no contact letter if he comes near her you have the opportunity to charge him. Moving your wife and children to a safer location is an strong option, the guy sounds like he may try many things to convince her to go with him . 

Being with family gives all of you time to think clearly as long as you don't listen to irrational advice , as may come from family in moments of such drama. Just take a few days leave and work on a plan with your wife .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## adv

Almostrecovered said:


> I disagree, let him wait and waste away his day. If he attempts to go into the house you then can call the police for tresspassing.


I agree. POSOM doesn't control this situation, clairebear and his wife do.


----------



## WhereAmI

clairebear said:


> I think it may be a very good idea talk to his mother or father whoever picks the phone but BIL doesn't think will do any good once POSOM refuses to listen anything unless he talks to my Wife!!!


He refuses to listen because the people who are talking to him have zero impact in his real life. He can go home after sitting in the street for days and no one will know that he's basically stalking a married woman. He needs consequences that will follow him. His mother is the perfect target.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Almostrecovered said:


> I disagree, let him wait and waste away his day. If he attempts to go into the house you then can call the police for tresspassing.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Not sure why anyone would cater to his drama. Even a little bit is encouraging him to double his efforts. Total NC. Yes, call his mother. Tell her the NC letter has been sent and that he is not to attempt to see the wife.


----------



## Almostrecovered

The only contact (if any) to do at this point imo is to have BIL give him a signed copy of the NC letter and state that it was mailed yesterday and any attempts at trying to contact her will be forwarded to the police.


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Wife does not want to talk or see him. BIL thinks she needs to her cell phone on and when he calls her (BIL assumes he is trying) answer and tell him he needs to leave and it's over!
> 
> I think it may be a very good idea talk to his mother or father whoever picks the phone but BIL doesn't think will do any good once POSOM refuses to listen anything unless he talks to my Wife!!!


So by all means do not give in to his power. Why should he be able to call the shots? Let him waste his time. Do not cater to him. Catering to him is letting him have power.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Almostrecovered said:


> I disagree, let him wait and waste away his day. If he attempts to go into the house you then can call the police for tresspassing.


Agreed , don't let him control this , he does not know what is happening nor should you allow him to . It is key your wife is supportive of the steps you take together , remain calm and in control , it is your calmness and strength in the face of this that will make your wife look to you for support and protection. Keep your words to a minimum , there is nothing worse than verbal diarrhoea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

He is acting like a child. You need to treat him like such. Rule #1 in dealing with children is you don't negotiate or give in. That only shows them they have a chance to change your mind.

He doesn't get to talk to your wife. 

Someone should hand him a copy of the NC letter signed by your wife, and tell him to get lost.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

I talked with his parents, they both tried to stop him from driving here, they were worried cause he drove all night and did not answered his phone while they tried to call multiple times. POSOM knows about the NC letter, big mistake I told my brother who must have told my SIL who told him!!! Well his parents told me that he does not believe my wife his behind it and that I must have "forced her" to do it, they begged me to him talk to her one way or the other and let him hear from her.

BIL thinks she needs to pick the phone and tell him, my wife does not want to talk to him and I don't want her to do it either.


----------



## morituri

Inform your wife that the OM will not abide by NC and that he is seeking to be alone with her to convince her to leave you. Let her know that the only way left is for her to take out a restraining order against him. Do it quickly and take her to the county court closest to you to obtain the RO.


----------



## Entropy3000

Almostrecovered said:


> The only contact (if any) to do at this point imo is to have BIL give him a signed copy of the NC letter and state that it was mailed yesterday and any attempts at trying to contact her will be forwarded to the police.


:iagree:

Perfect.


----------



## clairebear

BIL's law enforcement friend said we do not have any facts at this point to get a RO, any attempts to try to get one will be dismissed and will hurt any future attempts to get one, as it will look we ask for frivolous RO's.


----------



## tacoma

No one knows what the wife has told him.

He may feel he is "saving" her from clairebears imprisonment.

If he is in love with her I`m telling ya he isn`t going away until he hears it from her.

I can`t see why no one wants her to straighten her own mess out.

You all are handling her like she`s a baby.

I`m not recommending giving them time alone but she`s a grown up, she has created this situation and sooner or later she will have to deal with him.

She should simply man-up and gitterdun now rather than later.

I`d look into what the wife has said to the SIL as well because her`s is a very odd attitude to have without some serious reason for it.
Married women don`t generally advise their married female family members to carry on affairs unless they believe they need to get away from their spouse.


----------



## tacoma

clairebear said:


> Well his parents told me that he does not believe my wife his behind it and that I must have "forced her" to do it, they begged me to him talk to her one way or the other and let him hear from her.


Told ya!




> BIL thinks she needs to pick the phone and tell him, my wife does not want to talk to him and I don't want her to do it either.


She needs to, it`s that simple.
Why are you letting this OM cause such havoc with your family?

She tells him to get lost and he gets lost.

It`s really that simple.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Your wife does not talk to him as he will try to manipulate her.

A RO very difficult to obtain however a statement signed in the presence of a lawyers and countersigned by witnesses is doable. The lawed can work the words showing hour wife is supportive of the NC and it can be sent by express mail to him copy his parents. It os a small cost to bear to tighten the legal loop and can be done today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhereAmI

clairebear said:


> BIL's law enforcement friend said we do not have any facts at this point to get a RO, any attempts to try to get one will be dismissed and will hurt any future attempts to get one, as it will look we ask for frivolous RO's.


Where exactly is he parked? Call the police and ask them to check on the creeper who is sitting in his car for hours. Tell them you've never seen him before and it's making you nervous. The cops will at least knock on his window and ask him what's up. Maybe that will be enough to scare him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> I talked with his parents, they both tried to stop him from driving here, they were worried cause he drove all night and did not answered his phone while they tried to call multiple times. POSOM knows about the NC letter, big mistake I told my brother who must have told my SIL who told him!!! Well his parents told me that he does not believe my wife his behind it and that I must have "forced her" to do it, they begged me to him talk to her one way or the other and let him hear from her.
> 
> BIL thinks she needs to pick the phone and tell him, my wife does not want to talk to him and I don't want her to do it either.


I suggest you all remain strong to not break the NC. He is aware of the letter. He has been informed. No point in invalidating the NC. there is no letting him down easy. It is best to make this a hard cutoff. Her talking to him will not send him away. It will encourage him and it draws her closer to him emotionally. She needs to stay dark and go through withdrawal. 

The SIL is your brother's wife!? What in the world is she doing!? Even if it was her sister this would be wrong. But why in the world is the SIL enabling this? Sorry that is a rhetorical question and does not matter. I would cut her out of my life forever. Maybe the SIL needs to runaway with this guy.

Your wife and you should go to the court today and get a restraining order. he can be served while sitting in his car.


----------



## tacoma

Eli-Zor said:


> Your wife does not talk to him as he will try to manipulate her.


So you`re saying she is a child and doesn`t have the strength to carry through with her stated course.

If that`s so then I wouldn`t want to be married to her.

If it were my wife she`d already have told him to get lost and he`d be gone.

I would have demanded it.


----------



## Eli-Zor

tacoma said:


> Told ya!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She needs to, it`s that simple.
> Why are you letting this OM cause such havoc with your family?
> 
> She tells him to get lost and he gets lost.
> 
> It`s really that simple.



Maybe , the OM will then insist on a one to one.

The call between the OM and your wife yesterday is a worry as you do not know what she said to him!!!, I thought she told you she said to him it was over with him.

Go to a lawyer and ge a statement signed and witnessed . Job done , then there is no misinterpretion what NC means.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

Entropy3000 said:


> Your wife and you should go to the court today and get a restraining order. he can be served while sitting in his car.


You`ll never get an RO for this Entropy.


----------



## Eli-Zor

tacoma said:


> Told ya!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She needs to, it`s that simple.
> Why are you letting this OM cause such havoc with your family?
> 
> She tells him to get lost and he gets lost.
> 
> It`s really that simple.



Maybe , the OM will then insist on a one to one.

The call between the OM and your wife yesterday is a worry as you do not know what she said to him!!!, I thought she told you she said to him it was over with him.

Go to a lawyer and get a statement signed and witnessed . Job done , then there is no misinterpretion what NC means.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

Eli-Zor said:


> Maybe , the OM will then insist on a one to one.


Who cares what he insists on?

He isn`t running this show..err..actually he is at the moment but it can be stopped.

When a woman tells me to **** off I **** off.
So will he.


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> BIL's law enforcement friend said we do not have any facts at this point to get a RO, any attempts to try to get one will be dismissed and will hurt any future attempts to get one, as it will look we ask for frivolous RO's.


You know what. Call a lawyer. I would not leave this in the hands of a comment from you BIL and his friend. It may be true but seriously this has all the makings of a serious problem. Get legal advice from someone who is working for you.


----------



## clairebear

Talk with my FIL's lawyer, he said there's no way we will get a RO and that will hurt our case if in the future we try to, as far as a no contact letter goes it will take him at least until tomorrow morning to have it ready and he does not think it will work. Plus a RO wife would have to see POSOM in court at some point! He told me wife needs to tell him, after that if he keeps stalking her eventually we can get a RO.

My SIL is a sick woman I could write a book on her toxic behavior.

Yes wife did told him on the phone she does not want to talk to him and yesterday the phone was off all day.


----------



## Shaggy

Her talking to him won't do anything. It only feeds his feeling that he can demand things and get them. Aldo remember all those crap romcoms have a period where the lovers fight and the guy chases her only to have her change her mind. That is what is fueling the POS game plan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Shaggy said:


> Her talking to him won't do anything. It only feeds his feeling that he can demand things and get them. Aldo remember all those crap romcoms have a period where the lovers fight and the guy chases her only to have her change her mind. That is what is fueling the POS game plan.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Indeed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

ok then I suppose the only other option is to let him camp out in front of the house.

Have fun with that.

He`s only there because she lied to him and he doesn`t know it yet.

She doesn`t want to talk to him because she would have to confess her lies and she doesn`t want to do that.

I`m kinda shocked at that everyone thinks she shouldn`t have to deal with the crisis she`s created.

Just don`t get it.

I see no other way to get rid of him.

If she does admit to her lies to him he may go off the handle and then you`ll have a foot to stand on for RO or kicking his ass or both.

Yes, your wife will be horribly upset, she deserves it, it will be a great learning experience for her and she needs a couple of those.


----------



## Entropy3000

tacoma said:


> No one knows what the wife has told him.
> 
> He may feel he is "saving" her from clairebears imprisonment.
> 
> If he is in love with her I`m telling ya he isn`t going away until he hears it from her.
> 
> I can`t see why no one wants her to straighten her own mess out.
> 
> You all are handling her like she`s a baby.
> 
> I`m not recommending giving them time alone but she`s a grown up, she has created this situation and sooner or later she will have to deal with him.
> 
> She should simply man-up and gitterdun now rather than later.
> 
> I`d look into what the wife has said to the SIL as well because her`s is a very odd attitude to have without some serious reason for it.
> Married women don`t generally advise their married female family members to carry on affairs unless they believe they need to get away from their spouse.


No matter what she says, he will say she is being forced to do it. UNLESS HE IS ALONE WITH HER. That will be his stand. And alone is him driving off into the sunset with her. This is actually a dangerous thing to do, and not just fior the marriage.


----------



## Almostrecovered

tacoma said:


> So you`re saying she is a child and doesn`t have the strength to carry through with her stated course.
> 
> If that`s so then I wouldn`t want to be married to her.
> 
> If it were my wife she`d already have told him to get lost and he`d be gone.
> 
> I would have demanded it.


1) she already told him she doesn't want contact, if he believes she is being coerced that is his problem and not hers

2) she already stated this morning she doesn't want to talk to him- she's already made her choice. Talking her into greeting him or answering his call is a bad idea and sends mixed messages. ("it's okay to talk to him when he's distressed")


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

Geez what a sh*t situation.

Your following all of the recommended steps, and doing a good job of listening and implementing them.

Man I don't know what to say and certainly don't want to suggest anything that strays from what can be a proven process of reconciliation... 

But my gut is screaming at me. I fear that your actions combined with the OM's actions and your W's history of living in a cheap romance novel is feeding the fantasy. Seems like the intention of the 'standard' recommended measures for successful reconciliation are to "wake up" the WS, and shake the fog. I don't know why it feels like some of this is going to do the opposite.

You just can't keep them apart by shear will or threats, the more you resist and the harder you fight to keep them apart the more they (specifically the OM who is playing the 'knight in shining armor' and 'soul mate' role in his head) feel compelled to continue the 'Robin Hood and Maid Marian' or (insert stupid love story character names here) parts... 

Everything she is saying to you sounds so much like this make believe script and having all these other characters and sub plots in it (brother, sister in law, etc..) just keeps the whole thing on a ‘plot line’ that doesn’t end well for your marriage...

Besides that, you can't do this forever. Your W has said she has pined for this guy all her life, he’s ‘the one’, blah, blah... all this makes it feel like it's going to be worse and even if she stays and you are successful at keeping them apart right now... She will resent you or regret not taking what she probably feels like is 'destiny speaking'... 

Blah... this is just so awful. I just feel like this fantasy must be destroyed. But you can't be the one to do it. She has to be the one to realize everything she has built up in her head about life with this d0uchebag is 'make believe'. What's that saying? "If you love something let it go free. If it doesn't come back, you never had it. If it comes back, love it forever."

I really don't know, I hate the situation that you’re in and I do know how you must feel. This thread and your story has stoked some serious emotions in me as well. 

I'm not saying not to follow all of the recoomedations these good people are offering you to the letter, I am saying that there may be a point when you have to be willing to let go. 

Stay strong. I’m willing some good karma your way brother. Stay away from this guy, don’t test yourself. He’s not worth it. Frankly she isn’t either. Think of your children at all times. I know you must be boiling with anger. Keep a picture of your kids in your pocket or close to you. When you feel that fury building up, look at it.


----------



## tacoma

Almostrecovered said:


> 1) she already told him she doesn't want contact, if he believes she is being coerced that is his problem and not hers


Did anyone besides the wife and OM actually "hear" that conversation?
I wouldn`t take her word for anything concerning the OM.



> 2) she already stated this morning she doesn't want to talk to him- she's already made her choice. Talking her into greeting him or answering his call is a bad idea and sends mixed messages. ("it's okay to talk to him when he's distressed")


That`s just silly.

Good thing he didn`t show up towing a travel trailer.
Maybe he`s got a cooler in the back seat and intends to just sleep in the car.


----------



## clairebear

Thanks Pit!! You nailed it man!!! I feel so dam sick, I just want to throw up, have a massive headache and just want to scream!!!

Yes, she is speaking the true about the talk with the other man I have it recorded, she did told him it was over and to not call her anymore!

MIL/FIL also thinks she needs to deal with him, she does not want to! I'm so enraged right now just want tell them all to go **** themselves!!!!!


----------



## Entropy3000

tacoma said:


> So you`re saying she is a child and doesn`t have the strength to carry through with her stated course.
> 
> If that`s so then I wouldn`t want to be married to her.
> 
> If it were my wife she`d already have told him to get lost and he`d be gone.
> 
> I would have demanded it.


I would say she needs to go through withdrawal before she gets near her drug. I have been there. NC is required. She is still addicted to the OM.


----------



## Almostrecovered

look, all he's done so far is park two blocks away from the house

if he's dumb enough to approach the house then you call the police


----------



## Entropy3000

tacoma said:


> You`ll never get an RO for this Entropy.


So then I would get a lawyer as has been suggested. Just to get the straight advice. Even if it is you cannot do anything.

I would do this for CYA. Just in case this dude comes to the house. He is the one doing the escalation. Who knows how far he is willing to go.


----------



## tacoma

Entropy3000 said:


> I would say she needs to go through withdrawal before she gets near her drug. I have been there. NC is required. She is still addicted to the OM.


I get your point but I've always bee a "rip" the band aid off kinda guy.

I also don't see how she could indulge in her drug with a family member present.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

Ok guys here is the deal, FIL/MIL/BIL think she needs to tell him over the phone or just go there and look at his pile of trash face and tell it word by word, I do not want to do this but they accuse me of wanting to keep up the drama!!!!

She is crying and begging me to not talk to him or see him, she doesn't want to!!!! Suggested we and the kids should go spend a few days with one of her aunts out of state. She's begging my forgiveness and that wants stay with me and our kids.

I'm so enraged but so enraged that I wonder if I should just pack her bags and kick her and her family out!!!!! Out of my life!!! Tell her go have fun with the love of your life the bi polar sicko!!!!!


----------



## tacoma

Entropy3000 said:


> So then I would get a lawyer as has been suggested. Just to get the straight advice.


He did that, the lawyer told him what I`m telling him.

She has to deal with this.

Look I`m not empathizing with the OM but he`s been lied to as well.
He was fed so much BS about how she was treated by her man that he simply won`t leave her to deal with it alone.

Until she is compelled to admit to him she was lying to justify her cheating he won`t realize what an ass he`s being. 

She has to deal with this.
It`s her mess and only she can clean it up.


----------



## Eli-Zor

clairebear said:


> MIL/FIL also thinks she needs to deal with him, she does not want to! I'm so enraged right now just want tell them all to go **** themselves!!!!!


Your FIL is giving poor advice, NC is NC , there is to be no contact as stated in the NC letter. You do not waver on this and do listen; go to the lawyer , have a letter drawn up and witnessed stating she wants no contact with him ever and if he does she will charge him with harresment ,the letter is signed by her , you and the lawyer , send to OM , a copy to his family and a copy for your records.

If he contacts her she charges him.

While doing that take some leave , go to the In laws or a short break somewhere , get away from the noise.

And stop talking , it reads like you don't need a VAR your family are telling all sorts of stories to the SIL and OM .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

clairebear said:


> Ok guys here is the deal, FIL/MIL/BIL think she needs to tell him over the phone or just go there and look at his pile of trash face and tell it word by word, I do not want to do this but they accuse me of wanting to keep up the drama!!!!


Your family and LAWYER are right.
She has to do this.



> She is crying and begging me to not talk to him or see him, she doesn't want to!!!! Suggested we and the kids should go spend a few days with one of her aunts out of state. She's begging my forgiveness and that wants stay with me and our kids.


She wants to run away from the lies and mess she`s caused.
You do her no favors by allowing her to do so.
Would you allow one of your children to disown such a crisis they caused?
Why allow your wife the easy way out?



> I'm so enraged but so enraged that I wonder if I should just pack her bags and kick her and her family out!!!!! Out of my life!!! Tell her go have fun with the love of your life the bi polar sicko!!!!!


Ask yourself that question again after she tells him to go away and you`ve spent a few days checking on any contact they may or may not have had after this crisis is over.


----------



## Almostrecovered

clairebear said:


> Ok guys here is the deal, FIL/MIL/BIL think she needs to tell him over the phone or just go there and look at his pile of trash face and tell it word by word, I do not want to do this but they accuse me of wanting to keep up the drama!!!!
> 
> She is crying and begging me to not talk to him or see him, she doesn't want to!!!! Suggested we and the kids should go spend a few days with one of her aunts out of state. She's begging my forgiveness and that wants stay with me and our kids.
> 
> I'm so enraged but so enraged that I wonder if I should just pack her bags and kick her and her family out!!!!! Out of my life!!! Tell her go have fun with the love of your life the bi polar sicko!!!!!




you wife doesn't want to talk to him so honor that. Whether she's afraid to be mean to him and hurt him or truly wishes to never see him again is something you'll have to figure out later.

it would be a good idea to get out of the house for at least today imo

and a previous poster suggested you call the police and tell them there's a creepy dude parked on the street for a few hours now. They will have to investigate it and probably scare him a bit.


----------



## clairebear

BIL talked with toxic SIL, she knew he was coming!!! Gave him our address!!! I was done with her before but after this I'm done, no chance of any sort of contact ever!!! According to her the only reason he is here is because my Wife told him to back off the other day and has not answer her phone yesterday. According to her, my wife has been withdraw from POSOM since I confronted her so POSOM and SIL believe is because I am "forcing her" once their "love is to strong" SIL is not only sick but as crazy as POSOM, I don't if she really believes this or is just pure bat **** crazy!!!!


----------



## tacoma

If you allow her to get out of this situation scott free you`ve missed the perfect opportunity to see where her heart really is.

You`ve also taught her to shirk the responsibility in your marriage.

You`re getting really bad advice here, listen to your lawyer.


----------



## tacoma

clairebear said:


> BIL talked with toxic SIL, she knew he was coming!!! Gave him our address!!! I was done with her before but after this I'm done, no chance of any sort of contact ever!!! According to her the only reason he is here is because my Wife told him to back off the other day and has not answer her phone yesterday. According to her, my wife has been withdraw from POSOM since I confronted her so POSOM and SIL believe is because I am "forcing her" once their "love is to strong" SIL is not only sick but as crazy as POSOM, I don't if she really believes this or is just pure bat **** crazy!!!!


Did your wife tell him to "back off" or did she tell him it`s over not to call her or contact her again?

He will not go away until she confronts him.


----------



## Dadof3

tacoma said:


> If you allow her to get out of this situation scott free you`ve missed the perfect opportunity to see where her heart really is.
> 
> You`ve also taught her to shirk the responsibility in your marriage.
> 
> You`re getting really bad advice here, listen to your lawyer.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## clairebear

According to SIL the day I confronted her she told him to "back off" quote they believe it came from me, it did not!!!


----------



## Almostrecovered

tacoma, how many times does she have to tell him?

she said it once over the phone and then sent a letter (which we now knows he knows about)

honestly, why does it have to be in person or over the phone again?

and what happens next week when he shows up again or next month, etc etc

the best way to show someone that you want nothing to do with them is to never contact them again. She gave TWO warnings- one verbal and one written. That's plenty for me.

also SIL shares a lot of the blame for the reason POSOM is there btw. I truly wonder if POSOM would be there if she didn't get him worked up.


----------



## Entropy3000

Angel5112 said:


> *"I would say she needs to go through withdrawal before she gets near her drug. I have been there. NC is required. She is still addicted to the OM."*
> 
> Yes, but all he has to do is plant that seed of doubt into her mind. "Honey, he is dangerous. He has driven all the way here and is refusing to leave. He seems unstable and I am afraid that he may try to hurt you, the kids, or myself." Maybe that will make her feel threatened and her motherly instincts will kick in. Maybe then she will really see that potential psycho that this guy is! (I still can't get over him driving to your home and staking out your house)


:iagree:


----------



## Eli-Zor

Guys guys guys 

His wife is passing the test, she wrote the NC letter, she is keeping to NC by not wanting to talk to the OM . What she is doing is correct and is following the NC programme, the marriage can repair once the the OM is gone. There is no need for her to talk to the OM again nor is there any need for anyone to confront the OM unless it is the law or a lawyer. 

All that is happening here is the OM is looking for an in, don't give it to him. Be a supportive husband , be proud she is standing by you and not the OM and use your common sense , park the testosterone it is not required at this stage .
_Posted via Mobile Device_ edited : typos due to android thumb typing


----------



## Almostrecovered

Eli-Zor said:


> Guys guys guys
> 
> *His wife is passing the test*, she wrote the NC letter, she is keeping to NC by not wanting to talk to the OM . What she is doing is correct and is following the NC programme, the marriage can repair once the the OM is gone. There is no need for her to talk to the OM again not is her any need for anyone to confront the OM unless it is the law or a lawyer.
> 
> All that is happening here is the OM is looking for an in, don't give it to him. Be a supportive husband , be proud she is standing by you and not the OM and use your common sense , park the testosterone it not required at this stage .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


YES


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> BIL talked with toxic SIL, she knew he was coming!!! Gave him our address!!! I was done with her before but after this I'm done, no chance of any sort of contact ever!!! According to her the only reason he is here is because my Wife told him to back off the other day and has not answer her phone yesterday. According to her, my wife has been withdraw from POSOM since I confronted her so POSOM and SIL believe is because I am "forcing her" once their "love is to strong" SIL is not only sick but as crazy as POSOM, I don't if she really believes this or is just pure bat **** crazy!!!!


I was wrong. Seek a RO against this woman. The SIL.

This is actually hard to believe. She provided the OM with your wife's email and cell number. And now she knew he was coming and provided him with the address.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Claire, as bad as your SIL is, remember that she did t create this mess. Your wife did, your SIL is helping by enabling. I have a feeling your wife told your SiL alot more about how she loves this guy than you know. Your W is in denial and rugsweeping mode by avoiding this mess by wanting to leave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Wow your SIL needs to get ostracized by the whole family. She is aggressively trying to destroy your marriage and your kids family.

Wow. You and your wife should and her a NC letter as she is toxic to your marriage, family, and choices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Whip Morgan said:


> Claire, as bad as your SIL is, remember that she did t create this mess. Your wife did, your SIL is helping by enabling. I have a feeling your wife told your SiL alot more about how she loves this guy than you know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with this but the recent events were set off by SIL getting involved where she shouldn't and certainly has made a bigger mess

and how is it rug sweeping by avoiding OM? It's exactly what BS wants


----------



## Shaggy

As for POS ignore him, but realize he hasn't a life so he will be back tomorrow and the day after. That's stalking and it's very dangerous. I can't believe a lawyer is suggesting what he has. This is a dangerous situation where POS may decide to get a gun and try and SAVE her from her prison. Seriously nut jobs should not be just ignored.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

Almostrecovered said:


> tacoma, how many times does she have to tell him?


I`m not certain she has told him at this point.
He hasn`t received the NC letter and telling him to "back off" is not a commitment to NC



> she said it once over the phone and then sent a letter (which we now knows he knows about)


He knows "about it" through third hand heresay.
He hasn`t seen it.



> honestly, why does it have to be in person or over the phone again?


Obviously because he doesn`t believe it or wasn`t actually informed.



> and what happens next week when he shows up again or next month, etc etc


Then it will be easy to get an RO as he will have definately been warned in all possible ways at that time.



> the best way to show someone that you want nothing to do with them is to never contact them again.


Actually no it isn`t.
The best way to show someone you want nothing to do with them is to tell them you want nothing to do with them.
The fact that she`s freaking out about having to do so is telling....very telling.
"Actions not words" isn`t that the mantra this place runs on?



> She gave TWO warnings- one verbal and one written. That's plenty for me.


One of which he hasn`t seen the other is still pretty shaky and all depends on what the WW has led the OM to believe.
From his actions I`d say he was led to believe she`s being forced against her will.



> His wife is passing the test, she wrote the NC letter, she is keeping to NC by not wanting to talk to the OM .


To my mind she`s failing miserably.
Trying to duck out of her responsibilities and continuing to mislead either her H or her OM or both.

There is no other reason for such a visceral reaction from her when confronted with speaking to OM.


----------



## tacoma

Entropy3000 said:


> This is actually hard to believe. She provided the OM with your wife's email and cell number. And now she knew he was coming and provided him with the address.


This and the reaction of the OM tell me the wife is still being less than honest about what she`s doing and saying.


----------



## Entropy3000

Angel5112 said:


> *"According to SIL the day I confronted her she told him to "back off" quote they believe it came from me, it did not!!!"*
> 
> He *needs* to hear that from her. Trust me. This guy sounds just like my ex. He believed I wanted to be with him regardless of what I or anyone else told him and I didn't even rekindle a romantic relationship w/him like your wife did with the OM. I had to convince him and I had to be mean and cruel to do so. I feel bad for hurting him like that b/c I am not a mean person but sometimes it's the only way. It is what it is.


Having been in an EA I understand this urgency. But what HE needs is not important. He needs to leave this man's wife alone. He will continue to need her no matter what she says. No matter how cruel because he will delude himself into thinking she is being controlled. He lives with his freaking parents. He has major issues. He insists on seeing her alone. That is not safe. He may decide if he cannot have her no one can. No I am not being overly dramatic. His wife is not in a castle. She can walk out the door any time and stay gone. He will not accept a phone call as the answer. Only encouragement. He will plead and beg with her to meet him.
If she is still going through withdrawal it will be completely reset by this contact.

@tacoma -- Hey I understand your point of view. This is a tough situation. I just do not think cracking NC would be a good idea. But I do respect your position. I don't see this guy giving up no matter what.


----------



## clairebear

Well Wife says that although she is "confused" why everyone is pushing her towards talking with him, she is willing to call him and get the record straight!!!! My gut still tells me I should not give in to this POSOM!!!

Plus something else wife just told me, right before I confronted her she was "withdrawing from him" because he made clear after they would get together she could never "see me or the kids again" "that they would have their own kids" my wife does not understand this logic as our kids (biological are only mine) to her they have always been "hers" like if she gave birth to them, she could never have no contact with them, more the fact that I "did not kick her out" when I found out and been willing forgive her, showed her that she does not "want him anymore" she does not deny the feelings for him but wants to stay with me and work things out!

I don't want her to see him but maybe he needs to her this!


----------



## clairebear

About SIL, wife and I will send her a non contact letter, at this point I don't talk to my brother either as he clearly has not done a thing to take my side!


----------



## StrangerThanFiction

this thread is now stranger than fiction.

CB you are not obligated to follow the the advice of your wife's family. This is between you and your wife.

You don't really owe the other man anything more than a no contact letter and that's it. Yes your wife made a big mess but agreeing to and sending a no contact letter is a huge step towards dealing with it. 

The results of her meeting face to face with him are unpredictable. It could stir up unexpected feelings in her that further complicate things. on the other hand, it may be the quickest way to get it through his head that its over (but i doubt it).

Whatever you do, the real test will be if she continues to stay out of contact with him.

Why doesn't your wife want to and deal with him face to face, with you present? Just curious what her reason is - to maintain no contact or because she's trying to ignore the mess she made?

good luck will say a prayer for your marriage.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Angel5112 said:


> This is just more proof that this guy is nuts. He is sounds like he would be controlling and emotionally, if not physically, abusive. It seems like she is starting to see the crazy in him. He will hurt you or your family if she does not make him leave. I am convinced of it. Have her threaten him with a RO. He is probably too stupid to realize you can't get one yet.



here's the thing...


you can't rationalize with nuts

I really doubt that even if she went out and screamed at him that she hates his guts and has a small penis that he will stop

It sucks that legally you have to wait until he does something to get the police involved and RO. But negotiating with a looney is not a good idea in my opinion.


----------



## clairebear

Well although she does seem sincere about no longer want to be with him, sadly she does has feeling for him or whatever you want to call it, she is afraid that seeing him may make things worse when she is so hard "trying to fight it off".

I just want this piece of trash gone, gone for good, out of our lives!


----------



## ArmyofJuan

The good news is the OM is acting desperate and crazy which are huge turnoffs. This may help to show her what a mistake being with him would be.

I would ignore him and the in-laws. The OM can’t stay there forever and as long as he doesn’t do anything illegal he can’t be touched anyway. He’s a pathetic loser and not worth getting all upset over. Just wait him out, he’ll leave eventually. 

Check your cell phone service to see if you can block calls. I have Verizon and have numbers blocked on my step-son’s phones for like $4 a month.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shaggy said:


> As for POS ignore him, but realize he hasn't a life so he will be back tomorrow and the day after. That's stalking and it's very dangerous. I can't believe a lawyer is suggesting what he has. This is a dangerous situation where POS may decide to get a gun and try and SAVE her from her prison. Seriously nut jobs should not be just ignored.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This would be my concern. This guy has no life other than his quest.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Clairebear : keep to the NC , breaking it gives the wrong message to the OM , holding out causes huge stress to him as his fantasy collapses . Use this time to help your wife , strengthen your relationship and fill the love bank between you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

This might be an opportunity to be alpha. Instead of hiding you should confront him and tell him to back off. The fact that he is hiding two blocks away shows he fears you. Just walking to where he is, hand him the NC letter, and telling to him to go away followed by turning your back to him and strutting away might help some.

He is a coward doing a crazy wimps view of romance. Show him you don't fear him, and that you hold him in contempt might get him gone for now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Oh, and don't hang around the house hiding either. Pack you wife etc in the car and go have a picnic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Well Wife says that although she is "confused" why everyone is pushing her towards talking with him, she is willing to call him and get the record straight!!!! My gut still tells me I should not give in to this POSOM!!!
> 
> Plus something else wife just told me, right before I confronted her she was "withdrawing from him" because he made clear after they would get together she could never "see me or the kids again" "that they would have their own kids" my wife does not understand this logic as our kids (biological are only mine) to her they have always been "hers" like if she gave birth to them, she could never have no contact with them, more the fact that I "did not kick her out" when I found out and been willing forgive her, showed her that she does not "want him anymore" she does not deny the feelings for him but wants to stay with me and work things out!
> 
> I don't want her to see him but maybe he needs to her this!


IF the phone call occurs I would want to know what is said. I still say face to face is a bad idea.


----------



## lordmayhem

I go to court this morning, and come back and find this is going on? WTH?

Tacoma and BILs cop buddy is right, there's nothing the cops can do and no grounds for any RO or PO at this point in time, not if he's parked on a public street two blocks away. As a former cop, even without knowing the criminal statutes of his state, that a crime has NOT YET been committed. 

clairbear's wife must confront OM, either in person or by phone, preferably by phone. clairebear CANNOT file a restraining order against OM on behalf of his WW because he's not the victim. She would have to be the one to file it and be the victim on the police report for harassment so she can obtain a RO/PO. *She doesn't have to do it in person, she can do it by cell phone, that's all that's needed. Put the call on speakerphone and record it via VAR that she wants no contact with him whatsoever and any attempts to see her or otherwise contact her will result in harassment charges being filed against him*. The alternative is let the OM on the porch or somewhere on the property and when he refuses to go, then clairebear can call the police himself and charge OM with trespassing. 

I wouldn't let him on the property though, OM might be armed with some type of weapon and a physical confrontation could be likely.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

I have read a lot of this post and just want to say something for you to consider, (this is unfortunately from my experience).

1. How mentally and emotionally strong is your wife? Unless she is strong and from what I have read, she is not, With the "Love of her Life" pleading with her when they are one on one do not expect a good outcome.

2. A one on one with your wife and the OM no matter what will not end well, from what I have read you are her rudder and Yes maybe you are the controlling one but that is her choice.

3.If you let her go on her own she will latch on to a rudder to guide her and you won't be there. If he wants to talk you have to be there.

Take it or leave it. I unfortunately let my significant other do what she wanted to do on her own and have paid for it mentally ever since.


----------



## clairebear

I asked BIL to join the In Laws with the kids and let them stay over for tonight, also asked them to neither of them call me or the wife, we will called them if we them. Can't deal with their noise anymore, I know they trying to help but right now neither the wife or me can't deal with it. We need some silence, wife is an emotional wreck and they not helping. Her cell phone will be off until we get a new number or we decide she will talk to him. His mother called begging us to let my wife talk to him, she believes if he hears if from her he will go home, she is worried about the nut job, I feel for her but not gonna risk my marriage over it.

I have no problem in confront him but I don't think I will be able to hold myself.


----------



## Eli-Zor

She spoke to him already, she sent a hand written NC letter , how many more times does his mother or him need to be told it's time to leave your wife alone. My suggestion of a lawyers note still stands , this is based on experience elsewhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

lordmayhem said:


> I go to court this morning, and come back and find this is going on? WTH?


you also missed the whole shamwow thread too


----------



## COGypsy

ArmyofJuan said:


> The good news is the OM is acting desperate and crazy which are huge turnoffs. This may help to show her what a mistake being with him would be.
> 
> I would ignore him and the in-laws. The OM can’t stay there forever and as long as he doesn’t do anything illegal he can’t be touched anyway. He’s a pathetic loser and not worth getting all upset over. Just wait him out, he’ll leave eventually.
> 
> Check your cell phone service to see if you can block calls. I have Verizon and have numbers blocked on my step-son’s phones for like $4 a month.


Unless when you look through Harlequin Romance glasses, "desperate and crazy" looks like "you had me at hello" and Richard Gere driving up in the limo to sweep her away. Granted he's no Richard Gere....but we've already established that we're dealing with someone who's been hung up on this guy since before she and clairebear even met.

Frankly clairebear, I think you need to take a step back from the emotions and look at some of the facts and ask yourself some questions here. 

First off, she's been so entwined with this guy that through your whole marriage she's sunk into funks thinking of him and missing him. That timeline, plus your marriage puts it at 15 - 20 years of her mooning over him. _Why is she willing to drop it all cold turkey now when years of MC couldn't convince her to do that?_

The involvement that your SIL has in all this is just strange. Are she and your wife particularly close? Has your wife been confiding all this time about her "one that got away"? She might not be as crazy as you're thinking if she's been hearing your wife's Lifetime Romance for all these years.... inappropriate, yes, but not unpredictable if she's heard all about this unrequited love for however long.

Even now, your wife is one minute saying that she's sorry and she loves you and she wants it to work. Then she turns right around and says that she doesn't want to talk to him or see him because she's trying so hard to "fight it off" presumably when it comes to her feelings for him. _How much faith are you going to put in either story?_

It sounds too that as a result of her admitted feelings for this other guy, you've been monitoring her for years. And after this, you'll have to keep doing that, probably even more. _Is that the kind of loving marriage that you want to sustain when there hasn't been any change in her yet and in fact, things escalated with the other guy despite your efforts?_

I know you're really angry at this guy, but I'm really wondering why there isn't a similar level of frustration, intolerance... something... for your wife? I seriously question your wife's motivations for "working this out" when from what you've described, she's made it pretty clear that you're her second choice no matter how amicable that's been. And depending on what is motivating her to stay with you, how long is this NC/ work it out/ you're the one for me determination of hers going to last? 

The weirdo guy is an annoyance that could escalate to a more serious problem, to be sure. But to me, the real question is how much more are you going to be willing to invest in this relationship and in this drama?


----------



## clairebear

I agree, I just wonder if is the right thing to do or am I just prolonging this ordeal? As far as the NC letter the lawyer said the one we sent is acceptable as a NC letter as it was signed by my wife. Even if she would talk to him could never be right now as she is such an emotional wreck he would not believe her state is caused by his crazy actions coming here but would believe I'm "forcing" her. I understand where his mother is coming from after all she is his mother but as cruel as this my seem it is not my concern.


----------



## Lon

CB, I have read this thread and to me it seems clear that your W is looking for you to take the lead on this, it seems she recognizes she is in withdrawal from him and that by her confronting him she'll probably have to reset the process of detaching from him. Therefore I have to disagree with Tacoma, though he has a very valid opinion, but you should not let yourself get sucked into this drama - just keep it cool around your W, show through action that you are a lot more man than the loser/stalker in the car, and be ready to make a bold move against him if he comes at you or your W. Whatever you decide, just make a decision and stand by it. This unstable POSOM is possibly a physical threat and so keep your Brother's law enforcement friend in the loop - keep him afar and keep your W close - go have an afternoon date with her.


----------



## tacoma

COGypsy said:


> Frankly clairebear, I think you need to take a step back from the emotions and look at some of the facts and ask yourself some questions here.


Definitely.



> The involvement that your SIL has in all this is just strange. Are she and your wife particularly close? Has your wife been confiding all this time about her "one that got away"? She might not be as crazy as you're thinking if she's been hearing your wife's Lifetime Romance for all these years.... inappropriate, yes, but not unpredictable if she's heard all about this unrequited love for however long.


The SIL has been told things by claires wife to make her believe claire is bad for her and she needs to go to her "true love".
The SIL has been lied to by the wife as well I`d wager.



> Even now, your wife is one minute saying that she's sorry and she loves you and she wants it to work. Then she turns right around and says that she doesn't want to talk to him or see him because she's trying so hard to "fight it off" presumably when it comes to her feelings for him. _How much faith are you going to put in either story?_


This is where claire is missing a godsend of an opportunity.
If he tells his wife to go talk to him with a VAR in her pocket he`ll have a very good idea of where her head really is because the fact that he`s here and the SIL is on board with it tell me she`s not been truthful with what she`s told her husband she`s said to the OM and SIL.
This is why the wife is freaking out so bad about talking to him.
She doesn`t want her continued lies/manipulations exposed right there in broad daylight in the middle of the street.
I for one would demand she go speak to him and fix her mess.

Everyone keeps talking about the NC letter he`s been sent but it was only mailed yesterday, he hasn`t even seen it yet so how could it affect him?
The same with the phone call, one minute it`s stated she told him not to contact her ever again and the next it`s stated she just told him to "back off".
So I`m still unsure this idiot has been told anything about any NC.


----------



## clairebear

I think the turning point was the fact he wanted her to never see the kids again, it showed her his true colors! As far as love me she is not saying she loves me right now, I'm not stupid and I know she doesn't as she clearly has said she has feelings for him. Although she is willing to work things out and she has done so far everything I have asked her, if nothing else I want to give her the benefit of the doubt for now. My kids deserve it and if she is sincere I want give this a chance. As far as my SIL goes she has never been close to my wife, she did belong to the same group of friends back in the day.


----------



## Almostrecovered

cb- just so we have clarification


how are BIL and SIL related to your wife?

(is BIL her brother is SIL her sister?)


----------



## clairebear

BIL is my wife's brother. SIL is my brother's wife.


----------



## lordmayhem

Agreed. Most likely OM thinks clairbear is a monster because he's been told that by clairebears's WW. Demonization of the BS by the WS is in the cheater's handbook, chapter 2 I think. 

OM is a bunny boiler too it seems.


----------



## Entropy3000

COGypsy said:


> Unless when you look through Harlequin Romance glasses, "desperate and crazy" looks like "you had me at hello" and Richard Gere driving up in the limo to sweep her away. Granted he's no Richard Gere....but we've already established that we're dealing with someone who's been hung up on this guy since before she and clairebear even met.
> 
> Frankly clairebear, I think you need to take a step back from the emotions and look at some of the facts and ask yourself some questions here.
> 
> First off, she's been so entwined with this guy that through your whole marriage she's sunk into funks thinking of him and missing him. That timeline, plus your marriage puts it at 15 - 20 years of her mooning over him. _Why is she willing to drop it all cold turkey now when years of MC couldn't convince her to do that?_
> 
> The involvement that your SIL has in all this is just strange. Are she and your wife particularly close? Has your wife been confiding all this time about her "one that got away"? She might not be as crazy as you're thinking if she's been hearing your wife's Lifetime Romance for all these years.... inappropriate, yes, but not unpredictable if she's heard all about this unrequited love for however long.
> 
> Even now, your wife is one minute saying that she's sorry and she loves you and she wants it to work. Then she turns right around and says that she doesn't want to talk to him or see him because she's trying so hard to "fight it off" presumably when it comes to her feelings for him. _How much faith are you going to put in either story?_
> 
> It sounds too that as a result of her admitted feelings for this other guy, you've been monitoring her for years. And after this, you'll have to keep doing that, probably even more. _Is that the kind of loving marriage that you want to sustain when there hasn't been any change in her yet and in fact, things escalated with the other guy despite your efforts?_
> 
> I know you're really angry at this guy, but I'm really wondering why there isn't a similar level of frustration, intolerance... something... for your wife? I seriously question your wife's motivations for "working this out" when from what you've described, she's made it pretty clear that you're her second choice no matter how amicable that's been. And depending on what is motivating her to stay with you, how long is this NC/ work it out/ you're the one for me determination of hers going to last?
> 
> The weirdo guy is an annoyance that could escalate to a more serious problem, to be sure. But to me, the real question is how much more are you going to be willing to invest in this relationship and in this drama?


There is no doubt that at its core the wife is the issue of course. CB is choosing to reconsile. It is unclear what motivates the SIL. Perhaps she really wants the wife just go away. But if she is close to the wife then that says much.

There is way too much drama with Repunzel.

One good thing is that the children are clearly his and he is not risking having to let this nut job raise his kids.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

clairebear said:


> I asked BIL to join the In Laws with the kids and let them stay over for tonight, also asked them to neither of them call me or the wife, we will called them if we them. Can't deal with their noise anymore, I know they trying to help but right now neither the wife or me can't deal with it. We need some silence, wife is an emotional wreck and they not helping. Her cell phone will be off until we get a new number or we decide she will talk to him. His mother called begging us to let my wife talk to him, she believes if he hears if from her he will go home, she is worried about the nut job, I feel for her but not gonna risk my marriage over it.
> 
> I have no problem in confront him but I don't think I will be able to hold myself.


CB,

I think its high time you take a giant step back. All of this running around...trying to prevent this and that...BIL, SIL helping or not helping...your wife having the "soulmate complex"...all of this adds up to you eventually losing your mind and your health.

It's time to let it go...

Simply tell her, if she has any future contact at all with this guy..you will file for divorce. Then leave it at that. Remind her that you want to work it out, but are unwilling to let her explore options with this other guy. It's just that simple.

Believe me...all of this craziness that surrounding you right now will end up costing you so much.

Draw the firm boundary and stick to it. She can't even walk to his car and ask him to leave.

Realize there is absolutely nothing you can do, short of locking her in a room, that will prevent her from from seeing this guy..if that's what she wants.


I just think that your situation is getting way out of control...time to step back and stand firm.


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> BIL is my wife's brother. SIL is my brother's wife.


This has been confusing but that is how I was thinking. How strange that is. The SIL enabling this is your own brother's wife. UFB.


----------



## Almostrecovered

clairebear said:


> BIL is my wife's brother. SIL is my brother's wife.



okay so BIL and SIL aren't married to each other that what was confusing the heck outta me, I thought BIL was your wife's brother and SIL was his wife


----------



## tacoma

clairebear said:


> BIL is my wife's brother. SIL is my brother's wife.


So what exactly does your brothers wife have against you?

She has something against you or she wouldn`t be doing this.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lon said:


> CB, I have read this thread and to me it seems clear that your W is looking for you to take the lead on this, it seems she recognizes she is in withdrawal from him and that by her confronting him she'll probably have to reset the process of detaching from him. Therefore I have to disagree with Tacoma, though he has a very valid opinion, but you should not let yourself get sucked into this drama - just keep it cool around your W, show through action that you are a lot more man than the loser/stalker in the car, and be ready to make a bold move against him if he comes at you or your W. Whatever you decide, just make a decision and stand by it. This unstable POSOM is possibly a physical threat and so keep your Brother's law enforcement friend in the loop - keep him afar and keep your W close - go have an afternoon date with her.


I believe this is what a strong husband would do.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

To be calm and in control. But yes, prepare in your mind what you will do when he comes to the door. Frankly I think the best is to not answer it if you are there and call the cops. Let them pull up and see him banging on the door. Then you answer the door to the police and tell the police this guy drove eight hours to see your wife and she has sent him a NC letter. Do not let this work in his favor. i.e. do not take advice from the cops to let him see your wife.

BTW, if you leave a relative at your home with your kids, they should not answer the door to him at all. Do not let him involve your children


----------



## clairebear

Guys, SIL has deeper motivations that go back many years ago even before I met the wife, not worth get into the whole story now but there's deeper issues that has motivated all this, POSOM and wife are to blame big time, my SIL just took advantage of the situation because had access to information from the same group of friends back in the day and because I trusted my brother through the years and told him about my wife issues with this guy, SIL put two and two together and when the situation with the friends wedding came long took advantage of it, plain and simple!


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

tacoma said:


> So what exactly does your brothers wife have against you?
> 
> She has something against you or she wouldn`t be doing this.



My guess is nothing except that CB is standing in the way of "true love."

I bet the SIL is in love with Jennifer Aniston movies. She feels that it's her sacred duty to all that are in "true love" to promote their happiness.


----------



## Dadof3

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> CB,
> 
> I think its high time you take a giant step back. All of this running around...trying to prevent this and that...BIL, SIL helping or not helping...your wife having the "soulmate complex"...all of this adds up to you eventually losing your mind and your health.
> 
> It's time to let it go...
> 
> Simply tell her, if she has any future contact at all with this guy..you will file for divorce. Then leave it at that. Remind her that you want to work it out, but are unwilling to let her explore options with this other guy. It's just that simple.
> 
> Believe me...all of this craziness that surrounding you right now will end up costing you so much.
> 
> Draw the firm boundary and stick to it. She can't even walk to his car and ask him to leave.
> 
> Realize there is absolutely nothing you can do, short of locking her in a room, that will prevent her from from seeing this guy..if that's what she wants.
> 
> 
> I just think that your situation is getting way out of control...time to step back and stand firm.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## clairebear

Long story short, SIL cannot have children, when I was left by my first wife with the kids (they were 6 months old) I was on my own and finishing school plus working. She wanted to adopt my kids and I refused, when I started dating my wife she tried to have her make me give up the kids to her and brother to raise my wife did not went long with this. Well here you have the short version why she hates me!!!! 

BTW she does love Jennifer Aniston and that stupid tv show she was on whatever was called!


----------



## tacoma

Actually I understand his request for her not to see her step-kids.

They aren`t biological and any contact with them meant contact with the ex.

Any resources she chose to utilize to aid the kids in the future would be resources taken from my kids/family to support the Ex`s kids/family.

Not a situation I`d accept as her future husband/boyfriend.

Point is moot but it`s understandable.


----------



## Jones

Is this POSOM still out there.....sitting in his car? Has he done anything besides try to call her yet? THis guy is a wacko


----------



## tacoma

Jones said:


> Is this POSOM still out there.....sitting in his car? Has he done anything besides try to call her yet? THis guy is a wacko


It appears he`s still out there and they`re all hiding in the house.


----------



## clairebear

Well my wife legally adopted them and she loves them and feels them as her own blood. The kids have been the deal breaker she would never leave them, been on their life since they were a little over a year and has raised them much more than I have. The reason they broke up, in fact was my wife who broke up, after 6 years of dating she got tired of his lack of commitment, I think that was the main reason.

Yup still in the car, not two blocks away anymore, on my street now, see it from my window. Besides calling her nothing, well the phone is off so I guess not even that.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> CB,
> 
> I think its high time you take a giant step back. All of this running around...trying to prevent this and that...BIL, SIL helping or not helping...your wife having the "soulmate complex"...all of this adds up to you eventually losing your mind and your health.
> 
> It's time to let it go...
> 
> Simply tell her, if she has any future contact at all with this guy..you will file for divorce. Then leave it at that. Remind her that you want to work it out, but are unwilling to let her explore options with this other guy. It's just that simple.
> 
> Believe me...all of this craziness that surrounding you right now will end up costing you so much.
> 
> Draw the firm boundary and stick to it. She can't even walk to his car and ask him to leave.
> 
> Realize there is absolutely nothing you can do, short of locking her in a room, that will prevent her from from seeing this guy..if that's what she wants.
> 
> 
> I just think that your situation is getting way out of control...time to step back and stand firm.


CB,

All of the noise you are having DOES NOT MATTER. Take my advice above, before you lose your mind.

I realize I just quoted myself...I just believe very strongly..that you are on a path of self destruction. There are way to many people involved that you cannot trust right now.


----------



## Almostrecovered

You could always do the Beverly Hills Cop trick and stick a banana in the tail pipe and drive by him so when he follows he stalls out.*











*disclaimer, this is not actual advice but rather the result of me watching too many 80's movies in my teens


----------



## Jones

So why cant CB hand deliver him another copy of the NC letter signed by his wife, and let him know....calmly and collectively.... that they do not want him ever returning or they will file for a RO. Talk to him rationally. If he tries anything, let him and then you could charge him.


----------



## tacoma

Jones said:


> So why cant CB hand deliver him another copy of the NC letter signed by his wife, and let him know....calmly and collectively.... that they do not want him ever returning or they will file for a RO. Talk to him rationally. If he tries anything, let him and then you could charge him.


I don`t think CB can be calm and rational with OM (understandably).

The OM will start spewing some bile and CB will kick his ass.
Then he`ll be arrested and thrown in jail at the OM`s mercy (Filing charges).

The best bet is to have the WW tell the OM to go away forever but that`s not going to happen even though all legal and law enforcement advice agrees with this approach.

:scratchhead:


----------



## tacoma

Angel5112 said:


> [
> Didn't he say earlier that she was their legal guardian? Adoption makes the child yours. Legally responsible and all that. Doesn't matter whether they biologically are yours.


I understand your point but from the OM`s perspective it would be a dealbreaker (As it would for me).


----------



## clairebear

Guys you are all right and have gave me great advice!!! You gonna with me through this ****!!! 

Here is what I'm gonna do!

Tell wife:

If she has any kind of contact with POSOM I'm filling for divorce immediately and joint custody! 

We will send NC letter to SIL tomorrow!

FIL/MIL/BIL we very grateful for their help but this is now a private matter and any input about this matter is no longer welcome! 

I will go out and get her a new phone! 

She will be alone and free to make her own choices, do whatever she wants, if she calls him or goes out of the house I will know and then I will have my answer recorded!


----------



## Entropy3000

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> CB,
> 
> I think its high time you take a giant step back. All of this running around...trying to prevent this and that...BIL, SIL helping or not helping...your wife having the "soulmate complex"...all of this adds up to you eventually losing your mind and your health.
> 
> It's time to let it go...
> 
> Simply tell her, if she has any future contact at all with this guy..you will file for divorce. Then leave it at that. Remind her that you want to work it out, but are unwilling to let her explore options with this other guy. It's just that simple.
> 
> Believe me...all of this craziness that surrounding you right now will end up costing you so much.
> 
> Draw the firm boundary and stick to it. She can't even walk to his car and ask him to leave.
> 
> Realize there is absolutely nothing you can do, short of locking her in a room, that will prevent her from from seeing this guy..if that's what she wants.
> 
> 
> I just think that your situation is getting way out of control...time to step back and stand firm.


I totally agree. He needs to have set boundaries and what is and is not a deal breaker. I would personally set any break of NC as a deal breaker.

But he will likely have to make a stand with the OM himself. The OM will be stalking his wife. He is likely to be going to his home. If his wife is talked inot meeting with him, I would let her go. No point in living this way.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

clairebear said:


> Guys you are all right and have gave me great advice!!! You gonna with me through this ****!!!
> 
> Here is what I'm gonna do!
> 
> Tell wife:
> 
> If she has any kind of contact with POSOM I'm filling for divorce immediately and joint custody!
> 
> We will send NC letter to SIL tomorrow!
> 
> FIL/MIL/BIL we very grateful for their help but this is now a private matter and any input about this matter is no longer welcome!
> 
> I will go out and get her a new phone!
> 
> She will be alone and free to make her own choices, do whatever she wants, if she calls him or goes out of the house I will know and then I will have my answer recorded!


CB,

Good...welcome back to the earth.


----------



## Almostrecovered

do you have a home security system?

if you dont you may wish to get an emergency installment in case crazy OM decides to break in to "free the damsel in distress"


----------



## Dadof3

clairebear said:


> Guys you are all right and have gave me great advice!!! You gonna with me through this ****!!!
> 
> Here is what I'm gonna do!
> 
> Tell wife:
> 
> If she has any kind of contact with POSOM I'm filling for divorce immediately and joint custody!
> 
> We will send NC letter to SIL tomorrow!
> 
> FIL/MIL/BIL we very grateful for their help but this is now a private matter and any input about this matter is no longer welcome!
> 
> I will go out and get her a new phone!
> 
> She will be alone and free to make her own choices, do whatever she wants, if she calls him or goes out of the house I will know and then I will have my answer recorded!


:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## clairebear

Yes, I have a security system and VAR both in the bedroom and living room, she is not aware of this!


----------



## Jones

Good for you CB. Way to take control of situation.


----------



## NotLikeYou

Wow. What a keeper of a wife you have. She cheated on you, and then..... 

When the psycho BF shows up in front of YOUR house, she finds herself unable to go outside and resolve the situation directly. You are furious at the BF. 

Your family urges your wife to go end things. You get furious at them. 

A Police officer tells your BIL that your wife should go resolve the situation directly. You get furious at him. 

Your lawyer tells you that your wife should go resolve the situation directly. You get furious at him.

Maybe you should get furious at your wife. You know, that neat-o gal that currently hopes to one day "love you like she loves the other man." 

I think your VARs will record your wife not making a clean separation from the OM. But that's okay, you'll find somebody else besides her to get furious at.


----------



## Entropy3000

tacoma said:


> Actually I understand his request for her not to see her step-kids.
> 
> They aren`t biological and any contact with them meant contact with the ex.
> 
> Any resources she chose to utilize to aid the kids in the future would be resources taken from my kids/family to support the Ex`s kids/family.
> 
> Not a situation I`d accept as her future husband/boyfriend.
> 
> Point is moot but it`s understandable.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## Entropy3000

Jones said:


> So why cant CB hand deliver him another copy of the NC letter signed by his wife, and let him know....calmly and collectively.... that they do not want him ever returning or they will file for a RO. Talk to him rationally. If he tries anything, let him and then you could charge him.


CB could end up in jail overnight


----------



## lordmayhem

That's why I say have her use the speakerphone, read out the letter to him with no conversation whatsoever, and record the whole thing via VAR in the bedroom where the VAR is hidden so that she won't know its there.


----------



## Jones

Seems to me CB has been able to control his temper up until now, so why would he end up in jail overnight if he is still able to do so?
Why is everyone avoiding this idiot?


----------



## Entropy3000

Angel5112 said:


> *Actually I understand his request for her not to see her step-kids.
> 
> They aren`t biological and any contact with them meant contact with the ex.
> 
> Any resources she chose to utilize to aid the kids in the future would be resources taken from my kids/family to support the Ex`s kids/family.
> 
> Not a situation I`d accept as her future husband/boyfriend.
> 
> Point is moot but it`s understandable. *
> 
> Didn't he say earlier that she was their legal guardian? Adoption makes the child yours. Legally responsible and all that. Doesn't matter whether they biologically are yours.


That complicates custody if he lets her go.


----------



## Entropy3000

Almostrecovered said:


> do you have a home security system?
> 
> if you dont you may wish to get an emergency installment in case crazy OM decides to break in to "free the damsel in distress"


Yes. He is waiting for him to leave.

He will go to the house. At the very least pull up in front and honk his horn for her to come out.


----------



## tacoma

Angel5112 said:


> *"That complicates custody if he lets her go."*
> 
> What do you mean?


She can fight for custody of his kids.


----------



## Entropy3000

Angel5112 said:


> *"That complicates custody if he lets her go."*
> 
> What do you mean?


If she had not adopted them, the children would go to the biological father. She could request visitation due to her role in the family. However, since she has adopted them, she has binding legal rights to custody.

So if she were to leave him for this OM, if she wanted she could sue for custody. Now we know OM does not want this. BUT, in theory CB would have to grant her some custody at her home with the OM. If she had not adopted then this is less likely.

I was thinking how fortunate he was that these were his kids and not hers. BUT she adopted them.


----------



## Almostrecovered

well the good news in all of this is that OM hasn't slept in 24 hours, likely hasn't eaten much of anything at all and is very emotionally worked up- at least he now knows to a small degree what it feels like to be a betrayed spouse


----------



## Entropy3000

Angel5112 said:


> *"Yes. He is waiting for him to leave.
> 
> He will go to the house."*
> 
> :iagree::iagree:
> 
> Agreed. If you leave, take the W with you.


He is testing her. Not all bad. Just very risky. If she messes up. Let her go.


----------



## Entropy3000

Almostrecovered said:


> well the good news in all of this is that OM hasn't slept in 24 hours, likely hasn't eaten much of anything at all and is very emotionally worked up- at least he now knows to a small degree what it feels like to be a betrayed spouse


He is wearing a diaper ..... Like that astronaut crazy woman. Probably not but who knows.

Him not sleeping is a double edged sword.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Entropy3000 said:


> He is wearing a diaper ..... Like that astronaut crazy woman. Probably not but who knows.
> 
> Him not sleeping is a double edged sword.


I was mostly being sarcastic of course and his behavior is definitely looney tunes


----------



## WhereAmI

Entropy3000 said:


> He is wearing a diaper ..... Like that astronaut crazy woman. Probably not but who knows.


Seriously one of the first things I thought about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

WhereAmI said:


> Seriously one of the first things I thought about.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only half kidding here. Who knows?


----------



## tacoma

Y'know, I`ve just re-read this thread from the beginning.

The OM has never had any NC letter or phone call.

The letter was just mailed yesterday, did you read it CB?
Do you know what it says?

The only evidence of an NC contact you have CB is your wife stating she told him on the phone.
You know that`s a lie, you have got to know that`s a lie and even if it isn`t it doesn`t count as a real NC contact because you didn`t hear it.
You weren`t even in the same house when it was made.

I`m telling you he wouldn`t be out in your street right now if he had a valid NC contact.

He`s only there because he`s still acting on the BS fairytale your wife spun with him.
He hasn`t been told any different by the only person who matters.

I don`t know why her telling him is such a big deal.


----------



## adv

clairebear said:


> *snip*
> Yes, she is speaking the true about the talk with the other man I have it recorded, she did told him it was over and to not call her anymore!
> *snip*


----------



## tacoma

Well this is what I saw...
From page 3



clairebear said:


> I changed home phone today and tomorrow she will change cell phone number (it's on her name so I couldn't do it myself today) well this morning both my ***** of a sister in law and the POS called her cell phone she told them to not ever contact her again although they both think I'm an evil monster holding her hostage but whatever, she was short with them and right afterwards called me to tell me about the phone call.


----------



## Almostrecovered

clairebear said:


> Yes, she is speaking the true about the talk with the other man I have it recorded, she did told him it was over and to not call her anymore!


AND 



clairebear said:


> *POSOM knows about the NC letter*



That's twice now that OM has been informed not to contact CB's wife ever again


he's just refusing to believe it and wants to hear it from her (so he can persuade her otherwise imo) and was definitely egged on by SIL to do as such- well tough sh!t for him I say.


----------



## tacoma

Almostrecovered said:


> That's twice now that OM has been informed not to contact CB's wife ever again


hearing about an NC letter isn`t the same as reading it .



> he's just refusing to believe it and wants to hear it from her (so he can persuade her otherwise imo) and was definitely egged on by SIL to do as such- well tough sh!t for him I say.


I`ll have to continue to disagree.
If he needs to hear it from her directly then she should tell him directly after all she got him into this.
She bears responsibility.

It`s an awesome opportunity for her to start doing the heavy lifting and for CB to get a great reading on where her loyalties lie.

It`s also likely he`d no longer be scaring the neighbors stalking in the street.

However I`d never speak to my brother or his wife again after this.


----------



## Almostrecovered

If she calls- OM thinks her husband is forcing her
If she goes to car with husband - OM thinks husband is forcing her
If she goes alone then wife's safety is now at risk IMO as there is the possibility of him grabbing her

Where does it end? Let this guy dig his own hole, call the police and state that he has been out there for over 8 hours! That is still illegal. If he continues to stay there you call again until a pattern is established that he is stalking and dangerous and then you can get th RO
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

Almostrecovered said:


> Where does it end? Let this guy dig his own hole, call the police and state that he has been out there for over 8 hours! That is still illegal. If he continues to stay there you call again until a pattern is established that he is stalking and dangerous and then you can get th RO
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Police have already said he`s breaking no laws.

Pretty soon they`ll be able to get him for "Camping on public domain" though so it`ll only take a couple of days.


----------



## Almostrecovered

It's loitering and that is against the law, it's been over 8 hoursand that certainly passes any time lit someone can stay in a public street with no justifiable reason
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

This OM and your W are fogged to the 100th degree.... translation: They are "in love". I'm sure hearing that is like having a cinderblock dropped on your heart, but it's true. They very much feel that they are.

He is going to hear what he wants to hear, your not going to turn off the speaker in this nutbag's head that is screaming "love conquers all"... 

Wouldn't be surprised if this crazy bag of d1cks pops out of his car in front of your house with "thier song" blaring on a boom box... lol.










your W isn't going to willingly turn it off either... Who the fock really knows what dopamine induced thoughts are cooking in her head (your W). Quite certain she feels 'special' and 'loved' by both of you right now.. But she only loves one of you in return. 

I'd bet, if she has been hung up on this d0uchebag for 20 focking years, all this drama is playing out like some rediculous B movie love story... 

Wouldn't doubt if she's deciding whether the 'leading lady' in her epic tale of romance is going to go to her true love or 'sacrifice herself' for her children and a man she doesnt love because of some sense of loyalty. (might not wanna live in his parents basement either, lol)

The way you have explained it... You are now and have always been choice "B"... As Im certain you realize, her decision is between her kids and this man. They are the "deal breaker" as you put it. If it was just you vs. him, you would be reading a "Dear Claire" letter right now. 

Tough thoughts to live with, but they will need to be dealt with eventually. When the dust settles some of these thoughts and questions will start creeping in.


----------



## Entropy3000

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> This OM and your W are fogged to the 100th degree.... translation: They are "in love". I'm sure hearing that is like having a cinderblock dropped on your heart, but it's true. They very much feel that they are.
> 
> He is going to hear what he wants to hear, your not going to turn off the speaker in this nutbag's head that is screaming "love conquers all"...
> 
> Wouldn't be surprised if this crazy bag of d1cks pops out of his car in front of your house with "thier song" blaring on a boom box... lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your W isn't going to willingly turn it off either... Who the fock really knows what dopamine induced thoughts are cooking in her head (your W). Quite certain she feels 'special' and 'loved' by both of you right now.. But she only loves one of you in return.
> 
> I'd bet, if she has been hung up on this d0uchebag for 20 focking years, all this drama is playing out like some rediculous B movie love story...
> 
> Wouldn't doubt if she's deciding whether the 'leading lady' in her epic tale of romance is going to go to her true love or 'sacrifice herself' for her children and a man she doesnt love because of some sense of loyalty. (might not wanna live in his parents basement either, lol)
> 
> The way you have explained it... You are now and have always been choice "B"... As Im certain you realize, her decision is between her kids and this man. They are the "deal breaker" as you put it. If it was just you vs. him, you would be reading a "Dear Claire" letter right now.
> 
> Tough thoughts to live with, but they will need to be dealt with eventually. When the dust settles some of these thoughts and questions will start creeping in.


Good post. Tough to hear I am sure. I think he could become Plan A depending on how this works out. It depends who looks like the strong man. That said, it sounds like they have not had a lot of quality time together without the kids. There still is some amout of history revision to this.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

Entropy3000 said:


> I think he could become Plan A depending on how this works out. it sounds like they have no had a lot of quality time together without the kids. There still is some amout of history revision to this.



I agree WHOLE HEARTEDLY with the fact that he could become # 1. 

But, I disagree with this being the way. 

I think that would require a monsterous shift in her thought paradigms and the absolute destruction of the fantasy world she has lived in. 

For that, I don't think saving or fixing anything is the answer... 

Battling this OM or her fantasy world is a losing cause. I think her reality needs to be smashed to dust. Rock bottom, absolutely leveling the entire thing, all the way to the absolute brink or even past it... and then rebuilding it on fresh, solid ground is the best path to this goal. 

Just my opinion, but I feel like having the courage and strength to walk away would go a long way here.


----------



## Entropy3000

Angel5112 said:


> *“If she had not adopted the children would go to the biological father. She could request visitation due to her role in the family. However, since she has adopted them, she has binding legal rights to custody.
> 
> So if she were to leave him for this OM, if she wanted she could sue for custody. Now we know OM does not want this. BUT, in theory CB would have to grant her some custody at her home with the OM. If she had not adopted then this is less likely.
> 
> I was thinking how fortunate he was that these were his kids and not hers. BUT she adopted them.”*
> 
> 
> 
> That is how it works, and all judges make sure you are aware of that before they will even proceed. The process is so difficult anyways that it’s not worth it unless you really WANT to be their parent. It’s expensive, stressful, time consuming, not to mention you have to get in contact with the ex to get them to sign away rights, interviews, home studies, letters of recommendation, etc etc...
> 
> Again though, he thinks she is a good mother and doesn’t sound as if he wants/plan to try and keep the kids from her. In theory though, let’s say that they split up on less than amicable terms. If she was spiteful and wanted to wreak vengeance on claire, she likely could get full custody depending on what state and how liberal/conservative said state is. We would all hope that didn’t happen though.
> 
> *
> “He is wearing a diaper ..... Like that astronaut crazy woman. Probably not but who knows.
> 
> Him not sleeping is a double edged sword”*
> 
> 
> :lol::rofl:
> Thank you for the laugh!!


And you make a really good point here. She has made a comittment to this family. Not just CB. These are not her biological children, but she CHOSE to be their mother. 

So does the other man feel safe in sleeping in his car overnight near the house? Doing so is very threatening to the family but also while not advocating anything, he takes a big risk himself.

I would hope that the police would come by once an hour to wake him up and see if he is ok. All night long. I would have a problem with a guy staking out a neighbor if he was parked in front of my house overnight. Public road or not. I would have him towed. He could get pinned in and not be able to move his car. I would not want children to be playing near him.
Plus he does not have any license plates.

At the very least I would hope I had some good friends that might keep him awake all night. 

I know he is not rational. Gee I hope he does not have to deal with multiple flat tires.


----------



## Scottt

Entropy3000 said:


> I know he is not rational. Gee I hope he does not have to deal with multiple flat tires.


I had wondered about that. I'm not advocating it, but if someone were to just unscrew the valve cores, and not slash 'em or anything, would it even be considered vandalism, or just a prank between "friends"? And depending on community standards, it might be something the cops would encourage him to have towed.


----------



## clairebear

Pit, man the they "in love" crap drives me crazy, seriously makes me want to throw up!!!!

Well as I suspected and everyone else here POSOM came to my door as soon as I left, wife called the police on him, he was not arrested or charged as nock on someone's door is not a crime but wife was forced to open the door when the cops arrived and had to tell POSOM with the cops right there she does not want to talk to him or see him. Long story short the cops took him back to his car and asked him to leave, he was parked 5 blocks away, two hours ago and who knows now!
I'm processing all this!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Gabriel

clairebear said:


> Pit, man the they "in love" crap drives me crazy, seriously makes me want to throw up!!!!
> 
> Well as I suspected and everyone else here POSOM came to my door as soon as I left, wife called the police on him, he was not arrested or charged as nock on someone's door is not a crime but wife was forced to open the door when the cops arrived and had to tell POSOM with the cops right there she does not want to talk to him or see him. Long story short the cops took him back to his car and asked him to leave, he was parked 5 blocks away, two hours ago and who knows now!
> I'm processing all this!!!!!!!!!!!


This is actually a very good result. 1) the police are involved now and aware of what he is doing, and 2) your wife stood up to him.

This is a good thing, CB. I am interested to see if he is still there later tonight or if he got the picture. I'm sure your W is a complete wreck right now over this whole thing.


----------



## Lon

crazy... your doing good (but why'd you leave her alone with him there??!!)


----------



## clairebear

yes she is an emotional wreck, been locked in the bathroom since I got home.

Wanted to give her the choice, make her own decisions!


----------



## Whip Morgan

Claire, once things settle down, if I were you, I'd ask your wife something along the lines of:

"How could you love this man, who would chase a married woman, who required police involvement to leave? How is this the love of your life?"

Also, asking her that question might lead you to another: Does Clairebear really want to fight to save a marriage to a cheating wife, a woman who considers this POS the love of her life?


----------



## clairebear

Yeah there's alot I will have to ask her about, I'm still so pissed off! So much going through my mind!

Right now just gonna order some food, been all day without eating and sitting on the other side of the door while wife cries her guts out won't do me any good! For how long can a woman cry anyways???!!!


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Pit, man the they "in love" crap drives me crazy, seriously makes me want to throw up!!!!
> 
> Well as I suspected and everyone else here POSOM came to my door as soon as I left, wife called the police on him, he was not arrested or charged as nock on someone's door is not a crime but wife was forced to open the door when the cops arrived and had to tell POSOM with the cops right there she does not want to talk to him or see him. Long story short the cops took him back to his car and asked him to leave, he was parked 5 blocks away, two hours ago and who knows now!
> I'm processing all this!!!!!!!!!!!


Have you listened to the VAR yet?

It is amazing that he did not expect you to come up behind him and invite him in. Which would be very dangerous for him.


----------



## clairebear

Yeah have listened to the VAR, also talked with the cops who were at my house. POS does has a nerve!


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Yeah have listened to the VAR, also talked with the cops who were at my house. POS does has a nerve!


No surprise. There is not much spearation between nerve and stupidty though. 

So he has been told in front of the police. If he does not go home now that pretty much puts aside any comments about her calling him up to satisfy him. Him hanging around now is offically stalking.


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Yeah there's alot I will have to ask her about, I'm still so pissed off! So much going through my mind!
> 
> Right now just gonna order some food, been all day without eating and sitting on the other side of the door while wife cries her guts out won't do me any good! For how long can a woman cry anyways???!!!


She is crying!? WTF!?

Ok so maybe I am not surprised, but what is the dynamic here? She locked herself in the bathroom. Could be any number for reasons for that. But a better reaction would be her running to you to give you and hug and tell you she is sorry for all of this.

She should be very pissed that he did this. She should not be upset with you at all. Not for your boundaries and not because you left her. She needs to take responsibility and actually feel embarrassed that she brought this on you.

Another husband may have handled this with a baseball bat.


----------



## clairebear

sadly to be considered stalking will be required this behavior for quite a period of time and some dangerous behavior I was told by the cops, not that easy to get a RO as it may seem. He was also very put together in front of the cops, they do not consider him dangerous and he left and told so, well at least from my street! 

Yeah she is crying, haven't seen it but can hear it! Wonder how long can it last???? Has been locked in the ****ing bathroom for hours now!


----------



## tacoma

clairebear said:


> Pit, man the they "in love" crap drives me crazy, seriously makes me want to throw up!!!!
> 
> Well as I suspected and everyone else here POSOM came to my door as soon as I left, wife called the police on him, he was not arrested or charged as nock on someone's door is not a crime but wife was forced to open the door when the cops arrived and had to tell POSOM with the cops right there she does not want to talk to him or see him. Long story short the cops took him back to his car and asked him to leave, he was parked 5 blocks away, two hours ago and who knows now!
> I'm processing all this!!!!!!!!!!!



Oh very excellent!!

She`s faced him, he didn`t get his "alone time", and the cops have a report of him stalking your wife.

Now if he keeps it up you have an "in" for an RO.

This is a great turn of events CB!!

Let her cry, but once she`s done (tomorrow) she`s got some seriously deep difficult questions to answer man.
Questions you won`t like the answers to probably.


----------



## morituri

Ok now you have evidence that your wife, in front of the police, told the POSOM she never wants to see him again. Get a copy of the police report and use it for the basis for obtaining an RO. Do it ASAP.

Now as much as your seething with anger, please consider that your wife did what was expected of her and without you being present. If she was still infatuated with POSOM, she would have never called the police and she would have willingly opened the door to your home, invited him and engaged him in boundary breaking conversation, or worse, sexual interaction. So as much as you and others here want to punish her, she behaved accordingly as a wife and mother. Be glad that the POSOM is such a loser who gave her the ultimatum of not allowing her kids to be a part of their fantasy life together, for it showed her what piece of human garbage he truly is. 

Perhaps you should consider putting aside your anger and showing her your compassionate side and your love for her.


----------



## tacoma

Most definitely she should be told you appreciate the way she handled herself and the situation.

Tell her you know it was very difficult for her but the fact that she did it goes a good ways towards repairing trust.

Don`t go overboard but let her know what she did was the right thing and you are happy she did it.


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> sadly to be considered stalking will be required this behavior for quite a period of time and some dangerous behavior I was told by the cops, not that easy to get a RO as it may seem. He was also very put together in front of the cops, they do not consider him dangerous and he left and told so, well at least from my street!
> 
> Yeah she is crying, haven't seen it but can hear it! Wonder how long can it last???? Has been locked in the ****ing bathroom for hours now!


By official I was not meaning legally so. If after he was told by her to go away and that she called the cops there is no further plausible doubt here. He will argue that until he can get her away from you back home for a while that she is under your control. 

Ok, so she handled it. I guess she will have to keep on calling the police. Until he gets more bold or goes home. I would not tempt fate. She stood up when you needed her to do so. I think it is ok for you to be the protector now. Well done BTW.


----------



## Entropy3000

tacoma said:


> Oh very excellent!!
> 
> She`s faced him, he didn`t get his "alone time", and the cops have a report of him stalking your wife.
> 
> Now if he keeps it up you have an "in" for an RO.
> 
> This is a great turn of events CB!!
> 
> Let her cry, but once she`s done (tomorrow) she`s got some seriously deep difficult questions to answer man.
> Questions you won`t like the answers to probably.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## clairebear

Thanks guys! She left the bathroom, wants to cook us dinner and fill the questionaries together, I'm going along with it and putting my best behavior. Will also express to her what you guys telling me, sounds very good advice and I can use it right now as you can imagine I'm angry and need to get it under control.

No police report was filed the cops did not saw a need for it, like I said he put quite a show to them in my opinion, left when told and all this crap that is taking into account.

On other note like I said before we will be sending a NC letter to my SIL, I was having conflicting thoughts about my brother as he is my only brother, well he called and let me know that they let POS stay there tonight as he (brother) feels responsible for him coming here once his wife gave him the address etc etc and he is concerned by POS staying out all night, brother also told me POS intends to stay in town for a few days! I will be sending NC letter to my brother as well. Done with him as well!


----------



## lordmayhem

clairebear said:


> sadly to be considered stalking will be required this behavior for quite a period of time and some dangerous behavior I was told by the cops, not that easy to get a RO as it may seem. He was also very put together in front of the cops, they do not consider him dangerous and he left and told so, well at least from my street!
> 
> Yeah she is crying, haven't seen it but can hear it! Wonder how long can it last???? Has been locked in the ****ing bathroom for hours now!


The statutes differ from state to state with regards to stalking or harassment. In mine, any unwanted contact like what happened here is grounds to obtain a Protection Order. I would imagine when the cops arrived, they put him in handcuffs and searched him for weapons before releasing him and telling him to leave.


----------



## clairebear

they did searched him and his car but he was not put in handcuffs, he told them he got the address from my SIL and I'm sure that played a role. The cops kinda felt they were called for no reason!


----------



## tacoma

clairebear said:


> On other note like I said before we will be sending a NC letter to my SIL, I was having conflicting thoughts about my brother as he is my only brother, well he called and let me know that they let POS stay there tonight as he (brother) feels responsible for him coming here once his wife gave him the address etc etc and he is concerned by POS staying out all night, brother also told me POS intends to stay in town for a few days! I will be sending NC letter to my brother as well. Done with him as well!


Most definitely done CB!

Cut him out like a cancer...un****ingbelievable!!!


----------



## clairebear

that was all a domestic issue


----------



## TRy

clairebear said:


> I was having conflicting thoughts about my brother as he is my only brother, well he called and let me know that they let POS stay there tonight as he (brother) feels responsible for him coming here once his wife gave him the address etc etc and he is concerned by POS staying out all night, brother also told me POS intends to stay in town for a few days!


Wow, POS is only able to stay in town because your brother is helping him by giving him a place to stay. He will have dinner with him and talk to him and treat him as a friend. He is not even being neutral on this. He has picked a side and it was against you. The fact that he would do this is a true and total betrayal that I would never forgive or forget.

My advice is to Ignore the POS. You are giving him the attention that he wants. Relax and live your life. Tell your wife that you need to trust her to do the right thing. Tell her if she does the right thing all of you will have a good life together. If not you will move on. Then start planning your honeymoon with your wife right now. Take her mind off of the other man with fun thoughts with you. Your calm will calm her down. Joke, watch TV and ignore the OM. Maybe go to dinner with your wife or see a movie. Ignore him.

After that bait the POS by leaving the house on short errands. If while you are away he knocking on the door over and over again, have your wife call you. Go home but do not allow yourself to get baited into talking to the POS. Do not fight with him no matter what. Being strong does not mean being stupid. Getting arrested would be playing into his hands. Rinse and repeat this a few times so that when you call the police you can say that he is disturbing the peace and harassing you by repeatedly knocking on the door knowing that he is being ignored. Knocking on the door one time is not harassment. Doing it repeatedly is. Ask the police how many times someone can do this before they call it harassment and take action? Be nice to the police but be firm.


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Thanks guys! She left the bathroom, wants to cook us dinner and fill the questionaries together, I'm going along with it and putting my best behavior. Will also express to her what you guys telling me, sounds very good advice and I can use it right now as you can imagine I'm angry and need to get it under control.
> 
> No police report was filed the cops did not saw a need for it, like I said he put quite a show to them in my opinion, left when told and all this crap that is taking into account.
> 
> On other note like I said before we will be sending a NC letter to my SIL, I was having conflicting thoughts about my brother as he is my only brother, well he called and let me know that they let POS stay there tonight as he (brother) feels responsible for him coming here once his wife gave him the address etc etc and he is concerned by POS staying out all night, brother also told me POS intends to stay in town for a few days! I will be sending NC letter to my brother as well. Done with him as well!


UFB. So your brother is letting the OM stay at his home while he stalks your wife. Methinks there is way more to this my friend. You brother is neck deep in this. Why? You gave a reason for the SIL, but a brother is blood. There is something very rotten here.

Does your brother or SIL know this guy personally? Why would your brother leave this guy in his house with his wife? They must know him.

So are you needing to go back to work? If so your brother has made this possible for the OM.
Essentially the OM can kice with your brother on and on. And have him come back anytime. On any weekday or weekend and have a friendly base camp.


----------



## lordmayhem

Entropy3000 said:


> UFB. So your brother is letting the OM stay at his home while he stalks your wife.


+1

UFB is right. I can hardly believe what I'm reading. OM is not his concern, who gives a crap if he wants to live in his car? His brother should be helping him give OM the beatdown if it came to it. I know all mine would, not that I would even need their help.


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## Entropy3000

lordmayhem said:


> +1
> 
> UFB is right. I can hardly believe what I'm reading. OM is not his concern, who gives a crap if he wants to live in his car? His brother should be helping him give OM the beatdown if it came to it. I know all mine would, not that I would even need their help.


Exactly. The OM living out of his car wears him down. He can no longer stay credible to the police. Legally he has a place to stay now. A reason for being in the town. He is their guest. He has friends and encouragement and resources. The SIL can do his laundry. They can provide other family information. The brother can call up his work to make sure he is there and have plausible denial. And who knows what else. Now when the police ask where he is staying he can say I am staying at that guys brothers home. I am their guest. I am visiting them. I have a reason to be in your town. The brother will vouch for him with the police.

How far away do they live from your house CB?


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## TRy

Entropy3000 said:


> Exactly. The OM living out of his car wears him down. He can no longer stay credible to the police. Legally he has a place to stay now. A reason for being in the town. He is their guest. He has friends and enciuragement and resources. The SIL can do his laundry. They can provide other family information. The brother can call up his work to make sure he is there and have plausible denial. And who knows what else. Now when the police ask where he is staying he can say I am staying at that guys brothers home. I am their guest. I am visiting them. I have a reason to be in your town. The brother will vouch for him with the police.


This is right on. 

Rather than write your bother off right now, give him a chance to do the right thing. Call him and tell him how he is empowering the POS. Tell him that you are calling him to stand up and act like your bother and to not help or let his wife help the POS stay in town. Tell him to pick a side right now. If he does not act like your brother then tell him that your relationship is over forever as it is better to have no brother than to have a bother that betrays you like this. If he has trouble understanding what you are saying, tell him to call a friend that he trusts and ask the friend how he would feel if his brother did this to him.


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## Whip Morgan

So your brother is playing house with the OM. Your brother's wife is okay with this. At first I couldn't wrap my mind around that, but the. I started thinking: the OM may have something on your brother. This is such a bizarre turn, and CB's brokerage certainly is not acting like it. CB I hate to even think it, but have you considered that something occurred between your wife and your brother, that she told her OM or her sister, that is now being used for leverage for OM to stay there?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clairebear

I told my brother everything I could, not worth it anymore, he made his choice, he thinks he is making me a favor let the POS stay there tonight so at least "I know where he is" and tell me that POS will stay in town for the next few days, POS will not stay at my brother but anyways what he has done for me is enough. Already told wife we will go NC with brother too.

Tomorrow morning FIL will drop the kids off and I will go with him to the lawyer get NC letters to brother and SIL. I told wife she should have a normal day with the kids as always, that after the lawyer I will get us both the two copies of the books, go straight to work and will try to get home earlier tomorrow. I told wife POS will be in town for the next few days, told her I trust her and believe she will do the right thing like today, if she needs to call me at work.

The honeymoon sounds a great idea, I will start looking into it, it's something she asked for years and I know I should have done a long time ago.

No, nothing between my brother and my wife, my brother is just a jerk doing what is wife wants, plus on his crazy ass mind he actually thinks he is doing me a favor!


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## CharliesAngel

Hi there! I love what every user has said so far and agree with most of the comments. 
You train people how to treat you my friend, and hanging around waiting for your wife to "make it work" with ANOTHER man is simply something you will not tolerate. You have no reason to stay. You love your wife so tell her, "I love you baby but I have to love you enough to let you go." You choose your own happiness and she is choosing what she believes in hers. Like some of the other comments have stated...You will find someone who is totally into YOU and not living in the past with a lame ex BF who lives with his mommy. 
Good luck my friend...keep us posted!


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## clairebear

brother and SIL live about 30 minutes away


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## Whip Morgan

CB, I was thinking more along the lines of an affair between them that she told someone, that could use it as leverage... It's certainly Jerry Springer territory, but so is most of this craziness. 

Hang in there dude!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clairebear

they have barely speak through the years, SIL and wife were never close for reasons I explained earlier. I have kept a relationship with my brother even that not a close one.


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## lordmayhem

clairebear said:


> No, nothing between my brother and my wife, my brother is just a jerk doing what is wife wants, plus on his crazy ass mind he actually thinks he is doing me a favor!


That really is crazy. Blood isnt thicker than water in your case. If my SIL had an OM and OM came to our town trying to take my brother's wife, well........he wouldn't be in my house thats for sure! 

Definitely a Jerry Springer type situation.


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## Whip Morgan

Got it. Considering how batsh*t crazy this has become, I have to reconsider my first post here what seems like pages ago. I think you're doing pretty good at handling this. Keep at it! I definitely recommend rereadimg GeoffreyMarsh's thread, the advice about saving your sanity. Gotta still take care of yourself, too
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> brother and SIL live about 30 minutes away


So at least it is not two blocks over. But it is not eight hours either.


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## Geoffrey Marsh

Talk about toxic people in your life....I can't believe it.

CB..I am glad to see that you are going NC with your brother and SIL. They should not exist to you anymore.

Good Luck.


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## clairebear

Thanks GM!

Yup as hard as it is they dead to me, not gonna pretend is easy when it comes to my brother but the true is they have no really ever have been in my life that much or in a positive way, even before I met the wife! My in laws have really been the ones that have been in mine and our kids lives in a positive way and as real family!


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## clairebear

Ok Guys, help me before I do something really stupid!!!! With all this crap neither of us pick our mail all day, usually wife does around the time mail comes by. POSOM left in our mail box LOVE LETTER TO WIFE, A CELL PHONE, A CARD FROM A HOTEL 40 MINUTES FROM HERE, A CARD FOR A RENTAL CAR AND 500 BUCKS IN CASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't think straight right now!!!!!!!!!


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## clairebear

the nerve of this POS is beyond belief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he needs the crap beat out of him!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## clairebear

the money is clearly so wife can rent a the ****ing car!!!!!!


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## Eli-Zor

Take all the items to work and lock them away . As your wife is at home assume the OM will come a calling.

I did say previously take leave and go away for a few days . Your wife has still been standing up for you against the POS despite her crying for hours . Make a plan and be at home , don't leave her in this alone , it is at times like this you stand together .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

Yes, if you can, take some vacation hours if you have them and take her and the family away for a few days and not tell anyone you don't trust where you are going. I'm sure if you explain the situation to your boss, they would very likely understand.

I would NOT leave your wife alone in the house while OM is in town. This POS is definitely unstable.


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## Entropy3000

Eli-Zor said:


> Take all the items to work and lock them away . As wife is at home assume the OM will come a calling. I did say take leave and go away for a few day . Your wife has still been standing up for you against the POS despite her crying for hours . Make a plan and be at home , don't leave her in this alone , it is at times like this you stand together .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Yes. She handled the first situation fine. However the OM knows your wife. Frankly he is now in the abuse category. Yes, lock those things away. Do not turn on the phone. 

Sorry but my marriage is the most important thing to me. Yours is under siege with an enemy at the gates. Time for a family emergency as far as work is concerned. This is not the time to not be there. It is make or break time. He will be around for a few days. Have someone watch your house and you guys go away.

Did he sneak back and put this in there I wonder. After the cops came, or was it there before ...

No matter what the cops say or your brother, this guy may not be that stable. Do not leave her alone. He may assume he has to kidnap her. Seriously. Do not leave her alone. Again she passed with flying colors today. Enough is enough. He is bullying her now. Defend your wife. and family. Get them out of harms way. I know you cannot do this forever, but now is critical.

Also, realize if you do not have a garage, that there could be a gps on your vehicle.


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## Eli-Zor

Do not tell anyone where you are going , to many of your family are talking and working against you. The way to retain co trol is not to advertise your next steps to family or friends .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clairebear

Thanks Guys! I'm a nervous wreck right now!!! I did not wanted to involve FIL in this anymore but have no other option as I have no else I really trust!!! FIL will stay here tomorrow morning when he drops the kids while I go to work (there's stuff I need to drop) and talk with my boss so I can get some days off on my way back I will drop by the lawyer and get NC letter to brother and SIL.

FIL also suggested while we are away both he and MIL stay in the house, due to their jobs they will be only able to do so wednesday morning so FIL suggested that tomorrow morning he stays with the wife and kids and the rest of the day I stay with them. On early wednesday morning we leave when they arrive.

FIL also said we may be able to use his parents house that was used by the family as a vacation home back on the day, no one goes there in 14 years so he is not sure how much of an option it is!

POS letter to wife could have been written by a 16 year old, he pulls all the strings of their past relationship, all the love crap and sexual content!!!!! Not sure if he was also hoping I would read it!!!!


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## lordmayhem

Well, the money and things for the hotel proves that he has money to stay in one. So why is he staying at your brother's house again? So he can keep an eye on him? :scratchhead:

Anyway, sounds like you have a good plan and you're doing something about it, even if it is only temporary. What do you plan to do in the long term?


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## clairebear

I'm not sure, the hotel card is just a card with a hotel name on it, brother said he is only staying for tonight, I assume he will be checking in at the hotel at some time tomorrow. He must have assumed my wife would leave with him today and all this is a second option, I'm not sure what can go through is ****ing mind.

Honestly long term I'm not sure... it will depend how long he will be around, I doubt he will move here, well at this point I don't know!!!


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## aug

clairebear said:


> Ok Guys, help me before I do something really stupid!!!! With all this crap neither of us pick our mail all day, usually wife does around the time mail comes by. POSOM left in our mail box LOVE LETTER TO WIFE, A CELL PHONE, A CARD FROM A HOTEL 40 MINUTES FROM HERE, A CARD FOR A RENTAL CAR AND 500 BUCKS IN CASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't think straight right now!!!!!!!!!



$500 cash! Easy money. Keep it as a present to spend on your next date.

A cell phone to call Zimbabwe, a Nigerian Prince, all the 900 numbers you ever want to but could not afford. Cant you leave these 900 phone number connected forever? The phone bill itself would hopefully wipe out the OM financially. 

Keep the cell hidden away from you. Make sure no spyware was installed. Did it come with a battery charger?

Leave the rental car and hotel alone 'cause you may have to sign for it to use it.

Never in your lifetime would you get this opportunity again.








just saying what I might do if it was me...


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## clairebear

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

thanks for the laugh!!!! :smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## clairebear

yes, is a new cell phone, inside the box and everything!


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## Geoffrey Marsh

Buy yourself something nice...or maybe take your wife out to dinner. Burn the rest.


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## clairebear

what POSOM doesn't know is that wife has an old nokia phone, really but really old that she refuses to replace, the number has been replaced due to tech issues and the phone fixed many times but she loves this dam old phone and doesn't let it go. I got her a new one today cause she couldn't go with me change hers but I have a feeling she will end up wanting the new number on the dam old nokia. 

Guess either way POS wouldn't have impressed her with the high tech expensive phone :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Powerbane

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

The OM is a bunny boiler , is desperate and I suspect your wife is aware of this. Thats why the fantasy was wonderful until reality hit home and she knew she had to bail. 

You must be there for your wife, comfort, strength, security and trust in you is what she requires now. She in turn must remain resolute in protecting her marriage and not talking to and dealing with the OM or anyone else who supports him. 

Whatever you do do not leave her at home alone , and no disrespect to you family , I would not trust any of them to stand up against the OM if he shows up at the door. 

Keep a very clear head , refrain from saying disrespectful or threatening remarks to anyone about the OM, you need this in case there is a requirement for charges to be laid against him. 


Don't assume your wife is able to handle the OM on her own nor take any risks in leaving her alone. This is a dual issue, your wife may be weak and give in to him or she may be resolute in defending the marriage and the OM does harms her. So far it looks like your wife is still on the marriage side, she could have bailed many times and she has not, do not leave her without support.


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## Kobo

Your brother is a p****y and it's clear his wife has him under control. No way I let another man sleep in my house unless we're family. No way some dude that is trying to mess with my brother's family and he stays at my house. I would be parked right next to that MF on the street. I would make it very uncomfortable for this guy. If my wife was trying to setup my brother's wife with another man we would have a serious problem. A problem worthy of some time apart. Just terrible.

Get some time off and get your family away. Enjoy each other. Show each other what you guys are fighting for.


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## Almostrecovered

Wow crazy

Hang in there CB
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## uphillbattle

He may be there for a couple of days but he just gave you the money to go to a nice hotel with a hottub for a few days. Take the money and go have a little bit of fun away from the house. Hell, it will probibly make you feel better that its on his dime. Maybe afterward you can send him a thank you letter for giving you the means to go have an nice f!ck fest with his "soul mate".


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## Shaggy

Irony: use the money to pay the lawyer
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

do know that in the long run that OM has done you a favor by his recent actions (as crazy stressful as they have been)

often times DS will remain in the fog until something snaps them out of it. Sometimes the BS can expose the affair to the OM/OW's spouse and sometimes BS will then get thrown under the bus. This helps remove the fog.

Your OM wasn't married so unfortunately you didn't get this option.

However, by his complete and utter bat sh!t crazy behavior post d-day he has now shown himself to be stalkerish, mentally unstable and downright pathetically weak. I hope your wife comes to realize this and the fog lifts.


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## FieryHairedLady

WOW! This is all so crazy. my heart sank when I read your brother is helping him.  

I honestly wonder what kind of crazy stories she has been saying?

Take the money and take her out on a second honey moon.

Selling the house and moving is looking better and better.

Give your wife a chance. Stand by her.

After all this is over. Get some serious counseling for your marriage.

It seems like you really love her and care about her but have been dropping the bomb in the romance dept.

Let her know that you are sorry for being neglectful of her needs, but that its something you two can work on together.


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## F-102

The OM, your brother and SIL all need to be in straitjackets and locked in a rubber room.


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## lordmayhem

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> It seems like you really love her and care about her but have been dropping the bomb in the romance dept.
> 
> Let her know that you are sorry for being neglectful of her needs, but that its something you two can work on together.


No, this wasn't some troubled marriage. This was about old flames reconnecting. This type of affair happens in good marriages as well. If you've read the beginning, OM was her lover from before they got married, always stayed in her heart all these years, then got reconnected by the toxic SIL. clairebear was only her rebound man, while OM was the love of her life. If anything, she needs to be the one sorry for the amount of disrespect she has shown him and the family. *She is the one who needs to do the heavy lifting to save her marriage*.


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## Entropy3000

Kobo said:


> Your brother is a p****y and it's clear his wife has him under control. No way I let another man sleep in my house unless we're family. No way some dude that is trying to mess with my brother's family and he stays at my house. I would be parked right next to that MF on the street. I would make it very uncomfortable for this guy. If my wife was trying to setup my brother's wife with another man we would have a serious problem. A problem worthy of some time apart. Just terrible.
> 
> Get some time off and get your family away. Enjoy each other. Show each other what you guys are fighting for.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Whip Morgan

lordmayhem said:


> clairebear was only her rebound man, while OM was the love of her life.


The sad truth. LM, if there is one thing that Clairebear needs to repeat to himself over and over if he feels like he is losing strength to keep going, it is that quote. 

Thats what has to be addressed with his wife when the dust settles enough for somewhat-calm discussion. But as I said earlier, CB will have to figure out if he wants to settle for being someones back-up. The wife sticking around solely for the children will lead to another marital crisis, then another...


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## Geoffrey Marsh

Whip Morgan said:


> The sad truth. LM, if there is one thing that Clairebear needs to repeat to himself over and over if he feels like he is losing strength to keep going, it is that quote.
> 
> Thats what has to be addressed with his wife when the dust settles enough for somewhat-calm discussion. But as I said earlier, CB will have to figure out if he wants to settle for being someones back-up. The wife sticking around solely for the children will lead to another marital crisis, then another...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## clairebear

Well I got off until next monday and will be staying home today, the lawyer will fax me the NC letter to brother and SIL. I still looking where we will go for the next few days.

I told wife about the stuff POSOM left on the mail box and we ended up having what I think may have been an honest talk, I been on my best behavior thanks to you guys here but I'm still enraged, pissed off, hurt and everything else you can possible imagine but I'm controlling myself. Wife asked for my forgiveness again, apologize for her behavior, his behavior, showed herself very remorseful for all this ****, is very thankful not only that I didn't not just kicked her ass out but also for how I have been handling the situation. She told me that while we were dating and after we were married she was in love with me but over time (pointed out a few issues that I indeed have been terrible at) her feelings for POSOM made their way in, she does not blame me and doesn't want this to excuse her behavior. She said that although "yes she has wanted to be with POSOM that is no longer the case" "cannot change what happened" but "if I can forgive her and give her another chance" " wants to work things out and make me the only person she will love" 

So this is where things stand!!!

On other note, wife has also been very affectionate with me this last couple of days, she used to be this way while we were dating and first got married to the point I used to find her dam annoying, I never was an affectionate person, as time went by she withdraw more and more and I always thought "that she just had grown out of it" HUGE MISTAKE!!! I asked her this morning why all the sudden affection and she said "well cause I was when we made love the other day and you let me!" 

I guess there's alot I need to examine on my own actions that may have lead this chain of events! This has also been the second day in almost 10 years that I ever took a day off work!


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## Eli-Zor

So far so good, though do expect something more from the OM. 



> On other note, wife has also been very affectionate with me this last couple of days,


Wait till the hysterical bonding starts, we may not hear from you for a while -you will be very busy 



> I guess there's alot I need to examine on my own actions that may have lead this chain of events!


:iagree:

and she should look at her poor boundaries and what changes she must make.



> This has also been the second day in almost 10 years that I ever took a day off work!


New motto, family first , work second

Why stay at home , go away somewhere and treat it as a vacation. Once you are on vacation you two may settle a bit, don't talk about the affair or relationship. Date your wife, enjoy the vacation time as alone time . 

When you come back I think OM will be still up to his tricks so both of you best be prepared for the long haul, maybe even charges being laid and a court case.


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## Jellybeans

I would tell him that if he comes near your property again, you are calling the police.

He sounds like a real d-uchebag.


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## Jellybeans

Eli-Zor said:


> Wait till the hysterical bonding starts, we may not hear from you for a while -you will be very busy


Too true.


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## Whip Morgan

clairebear said:


> "yes she has wanted to be with POSOM that is no longer the case"


Seems the fog is lifting for the wife? Seems like it. But it'll be slow. This OM's insanity may be what made your wife realize how bad this dude is. 

Its up to you to determine her sincereness. Its always a danger that the affair could go underground, and your family isnt going to help you.

CB, its up to you to figure out if you're wife is going to settle for you because she doesnt want to leave the children, or she realizes that she WANTS you to be her man for the rest of her life. I think its great that things have calmed enough to discuss the negative behavior on your part that affected the marriage. Stay calm and civil, its important to listen!

Stay strong amigo. Remember, its not about staying for children, its about staying so she can be with YOU.


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## tacoma

Well this thread has a much better atmosphere today!

Overall CB well done dealing with the OM yesterday on both your and your wifes part.
I actually think the way it played out showed both of you things you needed to see in each other to make R a bit easier.
It also allowed the wife to see what the OM really is.

The OM will get the message sooner rather than later, just keep your eyes open and family safe.

Spend that $500.00 on you and the wife, I`m sure you know someone who could use a brand new cell phone.


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## clairebear

Eli-Zor, I believe so I don't think he will give up at least for now, wife believes it as well, although she thinks he will not try to use any force against her, she is afraid he may try against me, made me promise I will not deal with him myself but let the police deal with him if necessary, I agreed but not sure how I will respond if he shows up at our door.

I think I got a preview of that hysterical bounding the other night and looking for the busy time 

The appointment she got us with MC and IC is still up to next week, last time I did not agree with IC as didn't thought was important, ANOTHER BIG MISTAKE!!! She also set our MC with someone else, give it a try with someone new as clearly has not worked with the one we saw before!

Yes, after she is done home schooling the kids, MIL is coming to watch them while we will go out for a bit, we will get the books you suggested together and have dinner, I'm embarrassed to say the last time we went out for dinner was 6 years ago!

About the days off, wife's grandparent's old house won't be an option, she told me she used to go there with POS while they were dating, we don't think he would ever go there but it brings memories and she thinks we shouldn't.

MIL suggested one of her relatives in a near town, the lady doesn't know POS or my brother or my SIL, MIL suggested she will call and just tell her we will be in town for a few days if we could stay with her. It seems the best option right now!

I know, wife is great with money, never spends unless we really need, sometimes she is to cheap lol but anyways we have a very comfortable life but all this years it was like if I could never make enough, I always wanted more, there's many days I could have taken off and I didn't.

Jellybeans, he is! I have never seen anything like this POSOM, if he does I will call the cops they may not do anything but eventually they will!

His nerve is just beyond believe :scratchhead:

Whip Morgan, I hear you about the kids, I want get that clear but need to do so in a way I won't put at risk what was already accomplished.

Tacoma, thanks!!! 

Believe me that phone needs to be replaced so bad, it became a private joke among my inlaws :rofl:


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## Entropy3000

Your comment about not taking her to dinner in six years says it all.

I am thinking that she has this long lost lover and more thinking you just dropped the ball yourself.

That is very good news. I don't think he is the love of her life per se. I think you could be the love of her life if you can get through this start being that good husband. I am not making excuse for your wife. But be her Lover, Best Friend and Husband and you will have an excellent chance at things. In that order BTW.


See His Needs Her Needs and Married Man Sex Life.

Even if sex is good take a look at that website if you have not. It is a daily blog and their is a book. The blog keeps reminding me to make my marriage the #1 priority.

The bird is in your hands ....


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

Whip Morgan said:


> Seems the fog is lifting for the wife? Seems like it. But it'll be slow. This OM's insanity may be what made your wife realize how bad this dude is.
> 
> Its up to you to determine her sincereness. Its always a danger that the affair could go underground, and your family isnt going to help you.
> 
> CB, its up to you to figure out if you're wife is going to settle for you because she doesnt want to leave the children, or she realizes that she WANTS you to be her man for the rest of her life. I think its great that things have calmed enough to discuss the negative behavior on your part that affected the marriage. Stay calm and civil, its important to listen!
> 
> Stay strong amigo. Remember, its not about staying for children, its about staying so she can be with YOU.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Exercise caution CB! There is a lot of good stuff your wife is _saying_....I would be more happy about her actions. Just keep you radar up and running.

Also...I detect a bit of "blame shifting" from your wife...this could be a sign of a less than remorseful attitude. You might have stuff to work on..which is fine...just be careful.


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## clairebear

Entropy, I know, nothing excuses her behavior but I know I could have done better, well I see that only now. I'm gonna work really hard on myself.

I will get two copies of His Needs Her Needs today, we also have done half of the questionaries I printed out last night and will finnish it tonight. I will also go through the website.

Sex has always been good in itself but is an issue in the sense that I was just having sex and not making love, I think changing this as been so far my biggest success. :smthumbup:

GM, I'm keeping my guard up but she doesn't need to know this, VAR and everything else is where it has been and will remain there for the time to come. Until down her actions have showed me she means business but... I will keep my eyes open!

As far as the blame goes, she has not blamed me for anything, she has showed herself remorseful over and over again she has pointed out issues as so do I and she has expressed over and over again how no matter what the issues may have been there's no excuse for her behaviors. She also took full responsibility when confronted by my in laws.

Only her actions will keep telling me where she stands but for now I have pretty much to trust but verify, I think the biggest test will very likely be next week once I return to work and she is alone all day until then I have to do my best and give her a chance.


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## Geoffrey Marsh

CB,

Best of luck. Sounds like you have a plan.


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## clairebear

GM, thank you


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## clairebear

Well ******* brother called a few times, for now I'm just ignoring him, can't imagine what he can possible think he needs to tell me!!! Tomorrow morning NC letter will be mailed to him and SIL, if they accept it great if not will start by changing my cell number and go from there!!!

POSOM's mother also called I ignored it as well, my take is that crazy pants has keeps not answering her calls, I feel for her but nothing I can do.

POSOM also left another ridiculous "love letter" in our mail box, I bet he will pull this crap as long as he is staying in the area, the letter nothing new, just same ****ing **** script of "forever love" that could have been written by a 16 year old, no phone, no money, or cards this time. The only thing is a copy of a fake marriage certificate, like those of best dad, best mom etc etc, seems he and wife while they were dating did this fake marriage crap, I guess is from this **** that he got the idea that "she is mine" The probably on his crazy ass mind thinks I'm the OM!!!!


----------



## WhereAmI

So he didn't actually mail the last letter? Get a camera and point it at your mail box. That's a federal offence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

The Other man's MOTHER is calling you??? WHY? 

Call your phone carrier and block his #/his mother's # so they cannot call you. 

How long ago did their affair start?


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Well ******* brother called a few times, for now I'm just ignoring him, can't imagine what he can possible think he needs to tell me!!! Tomorrow morning NC letter will be mailed to him and SIL, if they accept it great if not will start by changing my cell number and go from there!!!
> 
> POSOM's mother also called I ignored it as well, my take is that crazy pants has keeps not answering her calls, I feel for her but nothing I can do.
> 
> POSOM also left another ridiculous "love letter" in our mail box, I bet he will pull this crap as long as he is staying in the area, the letter nothing new, just same ****ing **** script of "forever love" that could have been written by a 16 year old, no phone, no money, or cards this time. The only thing is a copy of a fake marriage certificate, like those of best dad, best mom etc etc, seems he and wife while they were dating did this fake marriage crap, I guess is from this **** that he got the idea that "she is mine" The probably on his crazy ass mind thinks I'm the OM!!!!


He is delusional. I am curious what your brother wanted to tell you but I think you are doing the best thing. Do not play their games. Your brother had an opportunity to help you out. He botched that badly. And of course this would not have occurred if they had not provided the OM the contact information let alone support.

And you have said all you need to to the OMs mother.


----------



## Entropy3000

Jellybeans said:


> The Other man's MOTHER is calling you??? WHY?
> 
> Call your phone carrier and block his #/his mother's # so they cannot call you.
> 
> How long ago did their affair start?


The OM lives with his parents. As part of exposing the situation they were notified that he came to this city.


----------



## clairebear

WhereAmI, I will see which kind of camera I can get there, had not thought about it!! Will also give a call to the lawyer I been in contact with and see what he tells me.

Jellybeans, his mother called me yesterday as she knew he was coming and because he had not answered his phone all night during the 8 our trip she was concern about his well being. My take is that he is ignoring her as she wants him to just back off and go home.

About 4 weeks ago.


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## clairebear

Entropy, there's really nothing at this point that he can possible say to change my mind, despite the fact SIL provided the POS with my address I was still willing to give my brother a chance, he failed me miserably, I will never forget his actions and words!!!


----------



## Jellybeans

I am seriously confused--why on earth is OM's mother calling YOU of all people??? Was he planning to stay at your home or something and she gave him your #??? I is confused!!


----------



## clairebear

My wife had kept her phone off as part of the NC with the OM so my take is that she called her phone was off so then called me, I guess she assumed I would know if he was with my wife or not (meaning he didn't crash his car) plus wanted my wife to tell him it's over just go home.


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## Jellybeans

Oh i see... so the OM's mom called your wife's phone but you got it.

UM did you tell her, _Look I am X's HUSBAND. Your son is having an affair with my wife and enough is enough. Stop calling our family and trying to destroy our marriage. Do not contact us again!_


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## clairebear

yes I told her and she already knew


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## Parrot_head

Hi 1st post here..
Your tale made me join up so I could offer you some great advice..


----------



## Parrot_head

clairebear said:


> POSOM also left another ridiculous "love letter" in our mail box, I bet he will pull this crap as long as he is staying in the area, the letter nothing new, just same ****ing **** script of "forever love" that could have been written by a 16 year old, no phone, no money, or cards this time. The only thing is a copy of a fake marriage certificate, like those of best dad, best mom etc etc, seems he and wife while they were dating did this fake marriage crap, I guess is from this **** that he got the idea that "she is mine" The probably on his crazy ass mind thinks I'm the OM!!!!


Leave him a letter saying you need a little more $$ ,


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## Almostrecovered

Parrot_head said:


> Leave him a letter saying you need a little more $$ ,


Lol

Nice
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

"OM, the camera has been recording you so tread carefully."


----------



## joe kidd

Parrot_head said:


> Leave him a letter saying you need a little more $$ ,


A little more and he will have enough to make bail if he decides to beat his ass.


----------



## clairebear

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## adv

WhereAmI said:


> So he didn't actually mail the last letter? Get a camera and point it at your mail box. That's a federal offence.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That was my first thought too.


----------



## uphillbattle

joe kidd said:


> A little more and he will have enough to make bail if he decides to beat his ass.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
please stop you almost made me piss myself


----------



## clairebear

Had a very nice evening with the wife, we went together to the book store and got ourselves two copies of both books, also took her to have dinner and we finished the night with some hysterical bounding  I wonder how the POSOM spent his night????? Hmmmmm either all alone at the hotel room where he is staying writing some crappy ridiculous love letter or eating SIL disgusting food lol or both :rofl: yup either way doesn't sound much fun :rofl:

******* brother tried to call again this morning, left voice message "really needs to talk" I will keep ignoring him, NC letters will be mailed this morning and monday when I go back to work I will change my cell phone number, I'm really done with him.

The in laws will be coming this morning, they will stay over while we are away, we and the kids will go away until sunday night to MIL's relative, friday night MIL will join us to stay with the kids so wife and I have the weekend just for ourselves.

FIL did some digging and found out POSOM will be staying at the hotel until next thursday morning after that I assume he will go back to his basement or whatever hole he lives in!!!!


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## F-102

Why don't you tell the OMs mom where he is-then mommy and daddy and the men in white coats can come and take their baby boy home.


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## F-102

And, I know you don't want to, but hear your bro out-the POSOM may have told him something that could be important to your safety, i.e., "If I have to get rid of him to be with my love..."


----------



## clairebear

F - 102, :rofl: 

I been giving it some thought but I kinda feel his parents to some extent are enablers.

Yeah, I been having conflicting thoughts about answering ******* brother, I don't want hear anything he may have to say but at the same time wonder what he wants. :scratchhead:


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Had a very nice evening with the wife, we went together to the book store and got ourselves two copies of both books, also took her to have dinner and we finished the night with some hysterical bounding  I wonder how the POSOM spent his night????? Hmmmmm either all alone at the hotel room where he is staying writing some crappy ridiculous love letter or eating SIL disgusting food lol or both :rofl: yup either way doesn't sound much fun :rofl:
> 
> ******* brother tried to call again this morning, left voice message "really needs to talk" I will keep ignoring him, NC letters will be mailed this morning and monday when I go back to work I will change my cell phone number, I'm really done with him.
> 
> The in laws will be coming this morning, they will stay over while we are away, we and the kids will go away until sunday night to MIL's relative, friday night MIL will join us to stay with the kids so wife and I have the weekend just for ourselves.
> 
> FIL did some digging and found out POSOM will be staying at the hotel until next thursday morning after that I assume he will go back to his basement or whatever hole he lives in!!!!


I wonder how he would know how long this guy is staying? He could always switch hotels or extend stay or whatever. So I would not put too much faith in that. That is a very long time for him to be where you are at frankly. Long enough to look for a rental even.


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## pidge70

I'm not trying to rain on your parade but, it seems your W changed her mind awfully quick about the OM. Please, be ever vigilant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

Entropy, that's a possibility, POSOM is check in in this hotel until next thursday morning, he was also seen getting inside the hotel last night but yes everything you say is a possibility and although I'm hoping for the best I'm preparing myself to other outcomes. 

Pidge, I'm keeping the VAR's and everything as I have it, will keep checking everything as well and keep my eyes open, including during our trip, the biggest test will be next week when I go back to work, she will be staying with the kids alone all day and POSOM will be in town, I will also contact the PI I hired in the past, wife will have to take my daughter to the ballet on tuesday, it's an opportunity to either see him or even get another phone, I will trust but for the meantime verify.


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## pidge70

I hope for your sake she is indeed sincere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clairebear

Pidge, thanks.

If she is not, I will do as I told her and my in laws, file for divorce the next day and joint custody, I will be done.


----------



## pidge70

Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clairebear

Thanks.


----------



## Almostrecovered

hmmm...he's in town for 10 days?!

My guess is that he's job hunting and apartment hunting


----------



## Entropy3000

Yes, be vigilant but she may very well be sincere. She has to go through withdrawal and rebond with you. Again I think this is less about a long lost lover and more about you guys needing to focus more on you as a couple. She was vulnerable to this. She should not have gone there but looking forward what you are doing seems the best approach.

You can very much be the love of her life. Do be that guy. Stay strong. Do not be a doormat. Be the Alpha male that drives off all poachers.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

clairebear said:


> I will trust but for the meantime verify.


Yeah man. I trust my 3 year old not to drink a jug of bleach... That doesn't mean Im going to leave one laying around. 

Your wife is a now a cheater. Time to install "child locks" and "baby gates" on anything she might hurt herself with. lol.


----------



## Entropy3000

Almostrecovered said:


> hmmm...he's in town for 10 days?!
> 
> My guess is that he's job hunting and apartment hunting


Exactly. He is there to stay.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Talk to your brother! Keep your friends close and your enemies closer!!


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Yeah man. I trust my 3 year old not to drink a jug of bleach... That doesn't mean Im going to leave one laying around.
> 
> Your wife is a now a cheater. Time to install "child locks" and "baby gates" on anything she might hurt herself with. lol.



Quote of the freaking day! Love it.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

clairebear said:


> I been giving it some thought but I kinda feel his parents to some extent are enablers.



CB, 

His parents are for sure enablers.


----------



## Gabriel

I agree with others. CB, I think you should talk to your brother, even if it is just one last time. "Really need to talk" tells me that he might have something dire to tell you - it's possible the OM confided his plans to your brother, scary plans, and he wants to warn you.

I think you need to swallow your pride on that for the sake of gathering information. This OM is delusional and possibly very dangerous. At this point, it is a wargame for him. Seriously.


----------



## Jellybeans

WHY is the OM in your town at a hotel? Do you know? Is this the same hotel where he dropped the key off and $$$ for your wife? 

Did she plan with him this trip and planned to stay with him at the hotel???

I am completely lost with this story. Is the affair over or not? Why is he in your hometown? What is your wife saying?

If your bro said he wants to REALLY talk to you, then REALLY talk to him, like Gabriel said. Could be very important.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Jelly- allow me to sum up the past 2 days



2 Days ago OM drove up in the middle of the night (he lives 8 hours away) after WW called him to tell him to never contact her again. (they also mailed a NC letter that day that OM hasn't recieved yet but knows about) He sat and waited in his car close to 12 hours 5 blocks away from CB's house. OM knows CB's address because meddling, superb!tch SIL (CB's brother's wife) gave him this info and worked him up into a lather. CB got his kids out of the house and his BIL (wife's brother) approached OM and he stated that he thinks she is being coerced and will not leave until he got to speak to WW alone. OM's parents are even involved and have been calling CB to plead with him let his wife talk to him so he will calm down and come home. (he now ignores calls) 

Later that day, CB had to run an errand and, of course, OM immediately ran to knock on their door. WW didn't answer and called police instead. Police questioned and escorted OM (after searching him and car) away with no cuffs or arrest. (verified by VAR in living room)
OM then went to CB's brother's and SIL house, whom they gave him a place to stay freely. (see how crazy this is so far?) CB now is sending a NC letter his brother and his wife due to their betrayal and complete disregard for his marriage.
WW's dad has found out which hotel OM is staying and knows he is there until next week from today. OM also has been leaving love letters and items for WW including, rental car flyer, hotel card, $500 cash, and a brand new cell phone in CB's mailbox.


hope this sums it up and I didn't get anything wrong


----------



## Almostrecovered

also more summary-

WW- so far doing the right things for R, still needs to work more on remorse and getting completely out of the fog
WW's parents and brother- very supportive of marriage and helpful with kids and other things
CB- going crazy but so far doing a very nice job handling what must be an incredibly hard and stressful situation
CB's SIL- crazy superb!tch, openly supported and encouraged WW's affair and is purposely poisoning the situation and is making it ten times worse and much of OM's behavior is due to things she is telling him
CB's brother- doing nothing to stop his wife and completely betrayed CB
OM- bunny boiler that won't stop so far, unfortunately RO is not possible yet


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## Entropy3000

Gabriel said:


> I agree with others. CB, I think you should talk to your brother, even if it is just one last time. "Really need to talk" tells me that he might have something dire to tell you - it's possible the OM confided his plans to your brother, scary plans, and he wants to warn you.
> 
> I think you need to swallow your pride on that for the sake of gathering information. This OM is delusional and possibly very dangerous. At this point, it is a wargame for him. Seriously.


Agreed. he can make the chat his opportunity to confirm the NC. But he probably should get information. He should share none himself. None. Just ok tell me what you want me to know but I am answering no questions.


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## Jellybeans

Almostrecovered said:


> Jelly- allow me to sum up the past 2 days
> 
> 
> 
> 2 Days ago OM drove up in the middle of the night (he lives 8 hours away) after WW called him to tell him to never contact her again. (they also mailed a NC letter that day that OM hasn't recieved yet but knows about) He sat and waited in his car close to 12 hours 5 blocks away from CB's house. OM knows CB's address because meddling, superb!tch SIL (CB's brother's wife) gave him this info and worked him up into a lather. CB got his kids out of the house and his BIL (wife's brother) approached OM and he stated that he thinks she is being coerced and will not leave until he got to speak to WW alone. OM's parents are even involved and have been calling CB to plead with him let his wife talk to him so he will calm down and come home. (he now ignores calls)
> 
> Later that day, CB had to run an errand and, of course, OM immediately ran to knock on their door. WW didn't answer and called police instead. Police questioned and escorted OM (after searching him and car) away with no cuffs or arrest. (verified by VAR in living room)
> OM then went to CB's brother's and SIL house, whom they gave him a place to stay freely. (see how crazy this is so far?) CB now is sending a NC letter his brother and his wife due to their betrayal and complete disregard for his marriage.
> WW's dad has found out which hotel OM is staying and knows he is there until next a week from today. OM also has been leaving love letters and items for WW including, rental car flyer, hotel card, $500 cash, and a brand new cell phone in CB's mailbox.
> 
> 
> hope this sums it up and I didn't get anything wrong


OMG. 
(And thank you for recapping for me, AlmostR).
OM is psycho!!! Definitely keep a look out for him, CB and call the police. He is seriously psycho/bunny boiler/stalker/territory!

What is your wife saying about this? The bro and SIL are a$$holes for letting him stay over. 

Dude does not sound stable.


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## F-102

Hey, here's an idea-take the money and hire a dominatrix to see him at his hotel-I mean a real whips and chains type, and let her have her way with him!


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## Almostrecovered

Jellybeans said:


> OMG.
> (And thank you for recapping for me, AlmostR).
> OM is psycho!!! Definitely keep a look out for him, CB and call the police. He is seriously psycho/bunny boiler/stalker/territory!
> 
> What is your wife saying about this? The bro and SIL are a$$holes for letting him stay over.
> 
> Dude does not sound stable.


They have spoken to the police and were told that so far he has done nothing illegal. CB with the help of his lawyer is documenting everything and will attempt to build a case for a RO.


Wife has expressed some remorse over her part in OM's behavior and wishes to R and has so far done NC, been transparent and starting to lift herself out of the fog. (VERY good sign that she called the police on OM instead of answering him.)

Yes Bro and wife are major problems in this and thus CB has decided to extricate them from his life.


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## clairebear

Hi Everyone, thanks for the good advice!!! I don't know what I would have done if you had not been here for me this last couple of days!!!

I'm very pissed off right now and enraged beyond words, keeping my good face around the wife through!!!! The lawyer returned my called about the unwanted trash POSOM has left there so far and pretty much at this point nothing we can do, just keep saving everything but there's no mention of violence in any of the crap he left so for now not much we can do! Lawyer also told me I need to let the wife read the letters and see everything the POSOM has left her (wife has not wanted to see or read anything POSOM left), if we need to ask a RO in the future she will be the one having to do it and for that she needs to be aware of all the facts!!!! I'm thinking how I will approach this with her!!! Honestly I don't want to show her anything!!!!

I also took advantage of the fact the in laws got here and been helping wife and the kids with packing to go the post office and mail NC letter to ******* brother and ***** SIL, on my way back ******* brother kept calling and I answered!!!!! My ******* brother is no longer a man, there's no traces of manhood left in him, like one of you said he is just a *****!!! I had to stop my car and calm down before driving home!!!! So according to ******* ***** brother although he does not "agree with the involvement of his wife in all this or how she has been helping POSOM" he does think "that my wife and POSOM are in love" "had a story together" and "I should let people be happy" yes I should let people be happy!!!! Forget I am her husband, forget I been with her dating/married almost double the years POSOM was, yes I should just let people be happy!!!! He also still thinks that the fact POS slept at his house was his (brother) away of helping me!!!! because POS's parents were very worried about his issues (bi polar) and if something had happened to him I could be sued for something. He also told me POSOM "will not give up on my wife" "he really loves her" and although ******* brother doesn't know for how long POS will be in town "POSOM quit his job back home"!!!!!! That I should "just accept things as they are and move on" "my wife and POSOM really love each other" He also said apparently when POSOM used to get into his bi polar episodes while they were dating, "wife was the only one capable of calm him down" I don't know what that **** this means and don't ****ing care!!! This explains his parents enabling him, my wife was the free nurse to their mental ill POS of a son!!!

I'm telling wife I trust her and believe she will do the right thing but this is what I'm telling her...since d-day she has done everything I asked her and showed herself sincere, sorry and very remorseful however I'm not letting my guard down, I will not show it to her but will keep everything as if the affair was still going on, spying, checking, everything. While out I got two new VAR for our trip, one for the bedroom and one to be put wherever the home phone is. I will trust her but like PIT said and well the "child locks" will be in place!

About the unwanted mail and the fact POSOM has been hanging around wife has show herself very sorry and asked for forgiveness for the stress it is causing me, showed herself shocked by it, (never thought POS would come here) and although she doesn't think he would hurt her feels concern about me.


----------



## Almostrecovered

clairebear said:


> I'm telling wife I trust her and believe she will do the right thing but this is what I'm telling her...since d-day she has done everything I asked her and showed herself sincere, sorry and very remorseful however I'm not letting my guard down, I will not show it to her but will keep everything as if the affair was still going on, spying, checking, everything. While out I got two new VAR for our trip, one for the bedroom and one to be put wherever the home phone is. I will trust her but like PIT said and well the "child locks" will be in place!


this is all fine but remember that she needs to be completely transparent as well. IOW, she should hand over her phone when you ask, give passwords and emails to you, inform you as to her whereabouts, etc


----------



## Almostrecovered

btw- not that you would ever agree with your dumb brother but no one can "calm down" a bipolar person in the throes of a manic or depressive cycle merely by their presence. That's just complete BS. (I would know)

Sounds like your brother is swallowing the BS his wife has shoveled at him, as sad as it is I think you're doing the right thing by cutting him out of your life.


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## Jellybeans

Dude. Your brother is an a$$hole. Where does his loyalty lie? Seriously???

I think you should show her what he said on advice onf your lawyer. That way you will truly know how she feels. If she reaches out to him, then you know what her deal is. It's a good idea to use the VAR and etc on your trip (When is that happening?) If she doesn't contact him, great. If so, file for divorce and be done with her. This is way too much drama. All brought on by her and psycho OM. The fact your bro is enabling this (and yes, he is enabling this, NOT helping you as he says) makes this so much worse.

I think the saddest part of your story is that your wife told you from the get that she still had feelings for this dude and you guys even went to MC about it several times. It sounds to me like she never let him go and she was prob involved in a long-term emotional affair with him, never giving your marriage 100%.


----------



## uphillbattle

Wow, I really need to know the name and location of your brother. What ever drugs that dumb ass has, I need to get me some.


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## Entropy3000

UFB does not say enough. I would have told him that your strategy will be to encourage the OM to pursue the SIL. She has shown real compassion for this man and you think she must really care about him and they would be very happy together. 

So, you dumb brother did nit have any good information at all. Yeah proceed with NC. 

So your wife needs to leave her husband because she is the only one who can calm down the crazy guy. I the SIL should offer to sleep with him until he gets on his feet.


----------



## clairebear

Yes, I have her email password, even before this, wife rarely but really really checks her email and when she does she uses my laptop so I know what she emails. She doesn't have any facebook or the likes, she is using a new phone that I gave her and I'm holding on to her old one until the new number is switch to it, she wants the dam old phone!!!!

Well I'm sure and have prove they only been in contact this last four weeks since that dam wedding but yeah I know what your saying, if nothing else has been on her mind probably all along even through she says she did not had any feeling for him until the recent couple of years but yea I hear you...

Yes, any sort of contact with him in any shape or form I'm done, done for good.

I'm coming to believe my ******* brother may indeed on drugs or some sort of mental issue, I barely recognize him!!!!!


----------



## scione

Right now your brother only hear the story from his wife and the OM's side. You should have your wife call your brother and the SIL and tell them who she wants to be with. If they are sane and not on drug, that should stop them from helping the OM.


----------



## clairebear

believe me man for the POS want to be involved with my SIL he had not only to be crazy what he is, he would have no be on drugs and drunk as well :rofl::rofl::rofl:

SIL is delusional, the only time she saw my wife and POSOM together was when they were dating back on the day and she was never friends with my wife at all, not then not now but she still thinks "they make a cute couple"!!!!!!


----------



## clairebear

the trip we will be going tonight


----------



## Jellybeans

I agree taht your wife should personally tell your brother and sis in law that they need to back out of your marriage and stop enabling the OM. That will drill it home for them.

It's absolutely nuts what your bro is doing. My sis and I get into it sometimes, hardcore (typical sisterly bickering) but she ALWAYS has my back. In fact I remember her offering to put a shiner on my ex's face when we separated...and she adored him. LOL. Blood is thicker than water (usually).


----------



## Dadof3

Not to mention, wouldn't be bad for wife to do some "heavy lifting" now - by talking to your brother and sister-in-law.


----------



## Shaggy

You should have said,

So dear brother your advice to me is that I should let a mentally ill man walk into my house and do everything he can to convince my wife to abandon her husband and children and run off into his fantasy world contrasted in his mentally ill mind?

And

You are helping a mentally ill man in his attack upon my famillly, even after my wife has said she has no desire to go with him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

Not even! He shouldn't have to ASK questions to his bro. He should just tell his bro flat out,

"You are disrespecting me and my marriage by enabling this affair. You are my brother and your behavior has hurt me deeply. It's best that you don't contact me for now."


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Yes, I have her email password, even before this, wife rarely but really really checks her email and when she does she uses my laptop so I know what she emails. She doesn't have any facebook or the likes, she is using a new phone that I gave her and I'm holding on to her old one until the new number is switch to it, she wants the dam old phone!!!!
> 
> Well I'm sure and have prove they only been in contact this last four weeks since that dam wedding but yeah I know what your saying, if nothing else has been on her mind probably all along even through she says she did not had any feeling for him until the recent couple of years but yea I hear you...
> 
> Yes, any sort of contact with him in any shape or form I'm done, done for good.
> 
> I'm coming to believe my ******* brother may indeed on drugs or some sort of mental issue, I barely recognize him!!!!!


It makes no sense that your SIL would have hooked them up at the wedding and say that they love each other let them be together. If they have indeed been separated from each other for years this is absurd of her.

And again, I think if they feel so much for this guy your brother should share his wife with him until he can get settled in.


----------



## WhereAmI

I'd bet money your SIL is bangin the mail man. She's far too into this soulmate ****. She's a pro at brainwashing your brother, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

SIL reason to say they "love each other" is the fact POS and wife been in contact for four weeks SIL on words, "only a week would have been enough for real love" she told me this. Wife has not talked with my ******* brother but did talk with my SIL the other day, I have it on VAR and it was a brief talk where wife said "you don't know me *****, you know anything about me, don't ever call me again"

I tried everything along this lines with ******* brother, nothing gets through him, we used to be best buds until he got married after that I always kept being the nice brother and helped him multiple times, payed off debts he got from his ***** of a wife crazy shopping trips and so much more but he has changed so much over the years that I don't know him anymore.


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## Eli-Zor

> I think if they feel so much for this guy your brother should share his wife with him until he can get settled in.



:lol:

Perhaps he is already


----------



## clairebear

WhereAmI, honestly would not surprise me, I been thinking is based on her hate towards me but she does act like someone who does know to much about this "forever love" crap


----------



## Jellybeans

CB--how soon after she broke up with OM did you start dating her?


----------



## clairebear

met her about two and half years and we started dating then


----------



## Jellybeans

You met her 2.5 years after they broke up?

Is that right?

What concerns me is that just Sunday you posted she said: _he is/was always the love of her life and that no matter what this time they not giving up on each other!_"

This was not you run of the mill affair or even short EA. This sounds like it was a long-term EA. Did they keep in touch the entire time???

How long has she been No contact?


----------



## clairebear

yes I started dating her 2.5 years after they broke up.

No, wife and her family moved right after they broke up they moved for unrelated reasons and POSOM had no idea where wife was until he saw us at this other friends wedding and SIL told him where we were, phone number etc etc


----------



## Gabriel

Jesus, I think it's time for your W to man up here. She needs to talk to the SIL and your brother herself. They are sooooo convinced they are in love that they are trying to make that happen! Your words have no power to them.

This is what they are thinking..."jeez, it really sounds like they were meant to be together. W and CB have been having problems. We feel bad for her - she hasn't been taken out to dinner in 6 months, CB doesn't ever even take a day off to be with her. You, know, look at the determination of this guy - it just seems like it was always meant to be. CB should just do the right thing and let her go, it's so obvious she'd rather be with OM."

Of course, part of this thinking is because they are doing nothing but hearing the OM's sob story.

Here's my advice. Let go. I'm not saying dump her. I'm saying, take your hands off the steering wheel and tell her you won't stand for this drama anymore. It is wrecking your life as you know it. Tell her it's all in her control to make this go away. Because you can't. Tell her you love her and you hope she ultimately chooses you and your marriage. Then release. See if she heavy lifts to end this nonsense. It's ridiculous now, like a bunch of 16 year olds. Her putting her head in the sand, refusing to talk to anyone is not facing the reality that SHE has created. The reality that is ruining all of you, and all of your relationships. They all need to grow up, get out of high school, and deal with this one way or another.


----------



## clairebear

Gabriel you are right, I do think you have a point.

Two things I forgot to mention SIL throw at my face that "if she had been in touch with the POSOM before and had know how much he loves wife and how he never forget her, she would have helped him years ago" This tells me that wherever POSOM says they buy it!!!

My ******* brother to "prove" how nice POSOM is to my wife told me "POSOM is even willing now to let her have a relationship with the kids" So yea POSOM has done a great job showing how nice he is!!!!


----------



## clairebear

This more the fact SIL hates me and brainwashed my ***** brother through the years, makes me in their view the bastard of the story I'm sure!!!


----------



## Dadof3

Gabriel said:


> Jesus, I think it's time for your W to man up here. She needs to talk to the SIL and your brother herself. They are sooooo convinced they are in love that they are trying to make that happen! Your words have no power to them.
> 
> This is what they are thinking..."jeez, it really sounds like they were meant to be together. W and CB have been having problems. We feel bad for her - she hasn't been taken out to dinner in 6 months, CB doesn't ever even take a day off to be with her. You, know, look at the determination of this guy - it just seems like it was always meant to be. CB should just do the right thing and let her go, it's so obvious she'd rather be with OM."
> 
> Of course, part of this thinking is because they are doing nothing but hearing the OM's sob story.
> 
> Here's my advice. Let go. I'm not saying dump her. I'm saying, take your hands off the steering wheel and tell her you won't stand for this drama anymore. It is wrecking your life as you know it. Tell her it's all in her control to make this go away. Because you can't. Tell her you love her and you hope she ultimately chooses you and your marriage. Then release. See if she heavy lifts to end this nonsense. It's ridiculous now, like a bunch of 16 year olds. Her putting her head in the sand, refusing to talk to anyone is not facing the reality that SHE has created. The reality that is ruining all of you, and all of your relationships. They all need to grow up, get out of high school, and deal with this one way or another.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Simple solutions are usually the best solutions. People should fix messes they create. If it isn't meant to be, than it wasn't meant to be. If she doesn't / can't do this - you will be seen as a controlling person who had to have his way. Not to say that you are, but that is how most are perceiving.

She alone has control of herself. If she just "messed up" and started her EA because she was lonely, this ought to be an easy cleanup chore. Set your boundaries and enforce, but let her deal with the issues. 

Sometimes if we let our waywards hide behind us, they won't learn to respect us any more than before. Matter of fact, how long before the next crisis that you are managing for her. 

She's a woman. Expect her to act like one.


----------



## Jellybeans

Gabriel said:


> Here's my advice. Let go. I'm not saying dump her. I'm saying, take your hands off the steering wheel and tell her you won't stand for this drama anymore. It is wrecking your life as you know it. Tell her it's all in her control to make this go away. Because you can't. Tell her you love her and you hope she ultimately chooses you and your marriage. Then release.


This is the * BEST * advice.

Heed it. 

A funny thing happens when you release someone. They find out that the freedom/fantasy they wanted sometimes ain't all it's cracked up to be. And you get your self-respect back.

Did your bro and SIL even know POSOM before the wedding? Seems odd they'd just randomly let him stay over.


----------



## Gabriel

Dadof3 said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> Simple solutions are usually the best solutions. People should fix messes they create. If it isn't meant to be, than it wasn't meant to be. If she doesn't / can't do this - you will be seen as a controlling person who had to have his way. Not to say that you are, but that is how most are perceiving.
> 
> She alone has control of herself. If she just "messed up" and started her EA because she was lonely, this ought to be an easy cleanup chore. Set your boundaries and enforce, but let her deal with the issues.
> 
> Sometimes if we let our waywards hide behind us, they won't learn to respect us any more than before. Matter of fact, how long before the next crisis that you are managing for her.
> 
> She's a woman. Expect her to act like one.


Exactly! Where are the adults at? Anyone?

Us Dads of 3 are thinking alike on this one. CB, don't be the tree she hides behind. Move out of the way and let her end this drama. You've done enough. Just don't walk away all frustrated. Do it calmly, tell her in a measured way why you need to step back and let her make this choice (hopefully) to end it. Can't force it.


----------



## clairebear

SIL knew who he was but never had ant contact with him before as they didn't had same friends or anything in common, she really just talked with him first time at the wedding and when I pointed out this to her she said "was enough to see he means well" maybe is crazy but I wonder if SIL thinks if wife is no longer in the picture I will hand over my kids to her like she wanted all along!!!!


----------



## Jellybeans

So they just randomly let some psycho stranger stay at their house in the name of "love?" How completely ridiculous.


----------



## clairebear

they are ridiculous, I could write a book on all the crazy, insane and ridiculous crap they have done through the years, special SIL who is the one who wears pants on that house.


----------



## Lon

Gabriel said:


> Exactly! Where are the adults at? Anyone?
> 
> Us Dads of 3 are thinking alike on this one. CB, don't be the tree she hides behind. Move out of the way and let her end this drama. You've done enough. Just don't walk away all frustrated. Do it calmly, tell her in a measured way why you need to step back and let her make this choice (hopefully) to end it. Can't force it.


I think us betrayed husbands on here are looking at this situation and recognizing that CB's W is still in the fog - hopefully some of this drama is making her realize its not worth it and getting her out of the fog, but the problem with the fog is if he just lets her go right now she will just run to fantasy guy, and what needs to happen before CB can have faith in his W to do the right thing is to destroy her little fantasy world (without being the bad guy, that's the hard part), and I think he is doing well with it. If she in unhappy in her marriage he can't keep her she is an adult and can do what she pleases, but it is not clear that she was simply unhappy, she just had this fantasy served to her as an option by some crazy determined loser with no respect for her marriage.


----------



## Gabriel

clairebear said:


> SIL knew who he was but never had ant contact with him before as they didn't had same friends or anything in common, she really just talked with him first time at the wedding and when I pointed out this to her she said "was enough to see he means well" maybe is crazy but I wonder if SIL thinks if wife is no longer in the picture I will hand over my kids to her like she wanted all along!!!!


You may be on to something there. Who knows? Just take a deep breath, release this, and let your W decide once and for all. Who cares about all the rest right now. It's irrelevant. Your brother and SIL are poison to your marriage. That's all you need to know about them.


----------



## Gabriel

Lon said:


> I think us betrayed husbands on here are looking at this situation and recognizing that CB's W is still in the fog - hopefully some of this drama is making her realize its not worth it and getting her out of the fog, but the problem with the fog is if he just lets her go right now she will just run to fantasy guy, and what needs to happen before CB can have faith in his W to do the right thing is to destroy her little fantasy world (without being the bad guy, that's the hard part), and I think he is doing well with it. If she in unhappy in her marriage he can't keep her she is an adult and can do what she pleases, but it is not clear that she was simply unhappy, she just had this fantasy served to her as an option by some crazy determined loser with no respect for her marriage.


Lon, I understand this point of view (I am a betrayed H myself). I agree that the fog needs to lift, and the INITIAL drama should have done that. It has now gone nuclear and needs to stop.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Tell your wife that she is free to go. Tell her you love her and want her to choose you, but tell her it is totally up to her. Tell her to be sure of what she is doing, because if she leaves, she isn't coming back.

Tell your Brother and SIL that you have told your wife that she is free to go. She can choose the OM or she can chose her husband.

Then get out of the way.

I hope she chooses you. I think the only way you will ever be able to feel totally loved by this woman is if you give her the free choice to go.


----------



## clairebear

I told that to my wife the day he was outside wanting to talk to her, I even left the house, also told my brother and SIL that I did this.


----------



## Jellybeans

SadSamIAm said:


> Tell your wife that she is free to go. Tell her you love her and want her to choose you, but tell her it is totally up to her. Tell her to be sure of what she is doing, because if she leaves, she isn't coming back.
> 
> She can choose the OM or she can chose her husband.
> 
> Then get out of the way.
> 
> I hope she chooses you. I think the only way you will ever be able to feel totally loved by this woman is if you give her the free choice to go.


A-freaking-men! 

Not just that, but it ends limbo quickly! Her choice will tell you all you need to know.


----------



## Jellybeans

I would have called the cops on him if he was lurking outside. And I would not have left. That is YOUR house.


----------



## Gabriel

It sounds like she told you she's choosing you, and has acted as such thus far. But she needs to get tougher now, since nobody seems to believe her. There is no greater buzzkill than when the "love of your life" screams from the rooftops at you to get lost. If she tells everybody to back off, and they don't, THEN it's po-po time for harrassment.


----------



## joe kidd

CB you are doing great and show way more self control and restraint than I could have mustered. I already know that cops would have been called to a scene in a hotel parking lot. Way to go man.


----------



## Eli-Zor

> the trip we will be going tonight



Good for you . Take the break and recollect your thoughts, your wife has stood by you don't drop your support for her and leave her isolated.

I suggest you take this day by day and enjoy the support she is giving you. The time will come where her input into dealing with this crisis will be required. Probably the legal route. All you must do is cut of contact with brother and SIL and allow time to pass. 

The OM and your SIL will get upset and wont know what you are doing, that is their problem . The moment the OM makes contact with your wife she files a harassment charge. 

Your key task is to assure your wife you still love her, her task is to be honest, stand united with you against the OM and be prepared for the showdown that is bound to come. 

Don't initiate any more drama. Your in control, they are not, keep it that way.


----------



## Eli-Zor

> Tell your wife that she is free to go. Tell her you love her and want her to choose you,





> I told that to my wife the day he was outside wanting to talk to her,


She chose to stay , let it be. From now on this is a combined husband and wife battle against the OM and his supporters. One of the most effective tools is to go dark on them , this means no communication with them or with anyone who may be passing messages to them.

Have an agreed plan with your wife if the OM does contact her or knocks on the door when she is at home alone. If he does pitch up when she is at home , have her call the cops then you, she then lays charges against him.


----------



## Dadof3

Lets be clear - let her go in the sense of making her stand up and be accountable and do some heavy lifting, but by no means abandon her to the other man. you can still be by her side and support her, just don't let her hide behind you for an issue she created. be protective, yet hold her accountable.


----------



## joe kidd

Hopefully she sees the OM for the fruit bag he is. Freakshow stalking nutcase.


----------



## lordmayhem

clairebear said:


> because POS's parents were very worried about his issues (bi polar) and if something had happened to him I could be sued for something.


You know this is ridiculous, right? He could die on the side of the road and you wouldn't even be remotely liable. He's an adult. 

Your brother is an idiot like his wife.


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> believe me man for the POS want to be involved with my SIL he had not only to be crazy what he is, he would have no be on drugs and drunk as well :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> SIL is delusional, the only time she saw my wife and POSOM together was when they were dating back on the day and she was never friends with my wife at all, not then not now but she still thinks "they make a cute couple"!!!!!!


Ok. That is so messed up. She believes in that soulmate [email protected] I get it now.


----------



## Chaparral

Eli-Zor said:


> Good for you . Take the break and recollect your thoughts, your wife has stood by you don't drop your support for her and leave her isolated.
> 
> I suggest you take this day by day and enjoy the support she is giving you. The time will come where her input into dealing with this crisis will be required. Probably the legal route. All you must do is cut of contact with brother and SIL and allow time to pass.
> 
> The OM and your SIL will get upset and wont know what you are doing, that is their problem . The moment the OM makes contact with your wife she files a harassment charge.
> 
> Your key task is to assure your wife you still love her, her task is to be honest, stand united with you against the OM and be prepared for the showdown that is bound to come.
> 
> Don't initiate any more drama. Your in control, they are not, keep it that way.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


Your number one responsibility to your family is to protect it. Do not force your wife to confront anyone if you don't think she is emotionally ready to handle it. 

Take your vacation have a good time bonding all the way. When you come back you all will be in a more settled and stronger position to handle goof ball. 

It doesn't matter what silly SIL or dummba$$ brother thinks about anything. Serves them right if they never get another clue from eother one of you.

Just be very wary as the goof ball may or may not be mentally stable and dangerous. Weirder things have happened. If anyone comes even close to a threat call police and be ready to defend yourselves.

Good luck and prayers, stay strong

Chap


----------



## Jellybeans

Entropy3000 said:


> Ok. That is so messed up. She believes in that soulmate [email protected] I get it now.


Yeah anytime I hear someone proclaim their belief in soulmates & all that other Hallmark-y star-crossed BS, they automatically lose some "real life" points in my book.


----------



## Chaparral

Eli-Zor said:


> She chose to stay , let it be. From now on this is a combined husband and wife battle against the OM and his supporters. One of the most effective tools is to go dark on them , this means no communication with them or with anyone who may be passing messages to them.
> 
> Have an agreed plan with your wife if the OM does contact her or knocks on the door when she is at home alone. If he does pitch up when she is at home , have her call the cops then you, she then lays charges against him.



:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

I fell like there is a time warp somewhere in this thread.:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Gabriel you are right, I do think you have a point.
> 
> Two things I forgot to mention SIL throw at my face that "if she had been in touch with the POSOM before and had know how much he loves wife and how he never forget her, she would have helped him years ago" This tells me that wherever POSOM says they buy it!!!
> 
> My ******* brother to "prove" how nice POSOM is to my wife told me "POSOM is even willing now to let her have a relationship with the kids" So yea POSOM has done a great job showing how nice he is!!!!


OMG. Sure let psycho have access to your children. If I had a choice of prison or my kids going where this guys was, I would no doubt choose prison.


----------



## Entropy3000

Gabriel said:


> Lon, I understand this point of view (I am a betrayed H myself). I agree that the fog needs to lift, and the INITIAL drama should have done that. It has now gone nuclear and needs to stop.


The thing is that the nuclear part is the OM, the borther and the SIL. The WW is not the cause for the brother or SIL. She did cause the problem with the OM, BUT she called the police and told him to go away. She is not responsible for inlaws.


----------



## Entropy3000

SadSamIAm said:


> Tell your wife that she is free to go. Tell her you love her and want her to choose you, but tell her it is totally up to her. Tell her to be sure of what she is doing, because if she leaves, she isn't coming back.
> 
> Tell your Brother and SIL that you have told your wife that she is free to go. She can choose the OM or she can chose her husband.
> 
> Then get out of the way.
> 
> I hope she chooses you. I think the only way you will ever be able to feel totally loved by this woman is if you give her the free choice to go.


The problem is the fact that she adopted his kids. He should not have to live with those two with his children.

The wife has already chosen her husband.

I get her doing the heavy lifting. I donlt think it is her job to deal with the brother or SIL. They are on another planet altogether. She already told the SIL to go away.

I think back in high school these folks took the wrong drugs or drank from the same bad well of water. Gee whiz. 

I think she has done her part now. If he comes back and the cops are called she should go nuclear and yell at him and tell the police she is afraid of him and she wants a police report filed.


----------



## clairebear

When I think it can't get any crazier I'm proved wrong!!! My ******* brother told my ***** SIL about our conversation early today and this must have sent the ***** on some psyco rage!!!!! She came to my house!!! as I refused to let her in and told her to leave she started banging the door, screaming, name calling!!!!!! Totally out of control, I had to call the police on her!!! ******* brother stayed on the car the whole time as the ***** that he is!!! When the police arrived I had to open the door and she then try to physically attack my wife!!!! Had to be restrain by me and one of the officers.
She claimed I was "holding wife hostage" "brainwashing her" "being abusive" and everything else you can imagine!!!! She screamed at wife "how could she do this" "POSOM really loves her" "how can she be with me" and all the soulmate forever crap, ****ing unbelievable!!!!!! 

A police report was filed and the cops told ******* brother his wife is "unstable" that he should "seek medical help for her" 

I'm just in disbelief!!!!!!!!! You don't hit a woman but I almost forgot that!!!! She just lost any control, boundaries, this is beyond anything I can possible imagine between people!!!!


----------



## joe kidd

clairebear said:


> When I think it can't get any crazier I'm proved wrong!!! My ******* brother told my ***** SIL about our conversation early today and this must have sent the ***** on some psyco rage!!!!! She came to my house!!! as I refused to let her in and told her to leave she started banging the door, screaming, name calling!!!!!! Totally out of control, I had to call the police on her!!! ******* brother stayed on the car the whole time as the ***** that he is!!! When the police arrived I had to open the door and she then try to physically attack my wife!!!! Had to be restrain by me and one of the officers.
> She claimed I was "holding wife hostage" "brainwashing her" "being abusive" and everything else you can imagine!!!! She screamed at wife "how could she do this" "POSOM really loves her" "how can she be with me" and all the soulmate forever crap, ****ing unbelievable!!!!!!
> 
> A police report was filed and the cops told ******* brother his wife is "unstable" that he should "seek medical help for her"
> 
> I'm just in disbelief!!!!!!!!! You don't hit a woman but I almost forgot that!!!! She just lost any control, boundaries, this is beyond anything I can possible imagine between people!!!!


Geeze. R is hard enough without a traveling freakshow coming by your house everyday. Stay strong man.


----------



## Dadof3

I thought I'd heard it all. Wow.


----------



## clairebear

thanks, I have a massive headache for four days now, hopefully at least now I'm done with both brother and her this insane woman.


----------



## joe kidd

clairebear said:


> thanks, I have a massive headache for four days now, hopefully at least now I'm done with both brother and her this insane woman.


So what does the SIL think? That your wife and the OM will live in bliss in his parents basement? Ahhh true love. Geeze. You might have to put your foot up your brother's ass.


----------



## clairebear

On her mind no because I'm the one "taking wife's true love way from her" I'm using "mind control on her" if I hadn't heard it I wouldn't believe it!! My brother is such a sad pathetic guy the whole time did not said a word, does need a foot up that ass :rofl:


----------



## Whip Morgan

How does your wife respond to the claims of "soulmate" "in love" nonsense?


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> When I think it can't get any crazier I'm proved wrong!!! My ******* brother told my ***** SIL about our conversation early today and this must have sent the ***** on some psyco rage!!!!! She came to my house!!! as I refused to let her in and told her to leave she started banging the door, screaming, name calling!!!!!! Totally out of control, I had to call the police on her!!! ******* brother stayed on the car the whole time as the ***** that he is!!! When the police arrived I had to open the door and she then try to physically attack my wife!!!! Had to be restrain by me and one of the officers.
> She claimed I was "holding wife hostage" "brainwashing her" "being abusive" and everything else you can imagine!!!! She screamed at wife "how could she do this" "POSOM really loves her" "how can she be with me" and all the soulmate forever crap, ****ing unbelievable!!!!!!
> 
> A police report was filed and the cops told ******* brother his wife is "unstable" that he should "seek medical help for her"
> 
> I'm just in disbelief!!!!!!!!! You don't hit a woman but I almost forgot that!!!! She just lost any control, boundaries, this is beyond anything I can possible imagine between people!!!!


Awesome. Really. Upsetting sure. But in hindsight this was great. Now when the police are called they will have less patience for this [email protected] She may end up with the OM yet. Seriously.


----------



## Shaggy

Youbreally wanna make this over the top?

Take the POS money, spend it on flowers for your SIL and tell her you have realized that she is the true woman who makes your heart sing. You want her to leave your brother and become the new mom to your kids when POS claims your wife.

See how your brother likes that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## joe kidd

Shaggy said:


> Youbreally wanna make this over the top?
> 
> Take the POS money, spend it on flowers for your SIL and tell her you have realized that she is the true woman who makes your heart sing. You want her to leave your brother and become the new mom to your kids when POS claims your wife.
> 
> See how your brother likes that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow! That would open some eyes.


----------



## Entropy3000

Shaggy said:


> Youbreally wanna make this over the top?
> 
> Take the POS money, spend it on flowers for your SIL and tell her you have realized that she is the true woman who makes your heart sing. You want her to leave your brother and become the new mom to your kids when POS claims your wife.
> 
> See how your brother likes that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like it. No joke. It is about turning this @$$clown posse against each other.

They may figure you did it ... but they will never really know.


The card could say that he always had a crush on her back in school. He has always felt a special connection. That he realizes she is his soulmate.


----------



## Voiceofreason

This actually adds some clarity to what has been going on with SIL and brother. Earlier people were looking for motive, her wanting the kids, etc. to explain her behavior. Now you know SIL is clearly waaaaay off her rocker--now psychotic--and your brother has developed a co-pathology and enabling personality to cope with living with her. Sad really. It happens with some couples. One goes off mentally and the other just kind of goes along. 

Very sorry you are getting the Jerry Springer quadruple whammy here CB (dealing with WW, bro, SIL and basement boy). You sir, are a pillar of strength and handling yourself and those around you admirably...you are the eye of the storm...you are the only adult in the room...you are the rock for WW and kids to tie to in the chaos...no doubt WW finds this very attractive right now...regardless of the outcome, you are da man CB...good luck carry on...


----------



## clairebear

My wife was shocked, last time SIL was at our house was 4 years ago for the kids birthday so the fact she came in the first place was in itself shocking. My wife handle the situation very well taking into account the insanity of it, she told the cops she "is fine", "not being held or forced to anything at all", that crazy woman "has persisted in get herself involved in a private matter" " that she has no relationship whatsoever with her" and "cannot possible understand where all her ideas were coming from" About the whole soulmate crap, wife told SIL "If I wanted that don't you think I could have gonna with him when he was here!!!" " I was alone" "I don"t want to be with him" SIL then started screaming the all love crap and my wife is being mind control by me, try to attack her, SIL said she was just going to shake her!!!! Like if it's ok go to someone's house to shack them!!!!

Guys thanks for the laugh, I sure need it and know what if I would do that I'm sure insane woman would say yes!!!! She has wanted my kids all long!!!!


----------



## clairebear

thanks, it actually makes sense, despite everything he has done I was so sorry for my brother, he looked broken, didn't even look like him, he was clearly embarrassed and didn't know how to act, sad to see.


----------



## joe kidd

clairebear said:


> thanks, it actually makes sense, despite everything he has done I was so sorry for my brother, he looked broken, didn't even look like him, he was clearly embarrassed and didn't know how to act, sad to see.


I'm going to guess that your bother had no say in whether or not the OM stayed at his house. Sybil runs that show.


----------



## Gabriel

OMFG.

Okay, it's much clearer to me now. The SIL is, and has been for years, on a mission to punish you. Maybe it's because of the kid thing, maybe it's something else. But she wants to punish you for something. She saw this guy at the wedding, and her little crazy light bulb went off, "This is my chance to ruin him! This is how I will destroy their marriage!"

And she plotted this whole thing, pushed it to the brink. She didn't just enable your W, she encouraged it, to punish YOU. It's clear as day now. Your brother is just whipped by his wife, and has no balls to stand up to her, so he is going with it, supporting his W.

And you figured things out, and now you AND your W are putting a stop to the SIL's plan, which had actually gotten pretty far. It got so close to success that the SIL could taste victory. And you guys are snatching that away from her now, and she is going ballistic.

Now, I don't know your history with the SIL well enough to understand the motive completely. But this is very clearly, IMO, was all a plan formulated by the SIL. Your W almost fell for it. 

I actually feel a little bad for your W and even a little for the OM. You know why? They were your SIL's pawns. She fed the OM what he needed to hear to give him hope, and he thought he was getting his long lost love back. He's bipolar besides. It's actually sad how badly he fell. Your W seems to have snapped out of it, but the OM is too immature to see what is going on. W and OM got played, as a ploy by the SIL to punish you, CB. For what I'm not sure.

Signed,

Sherlock Gabriel Holmes


----------



## clairebear

SIL has always had issues with me I'm not sure why I have never got involved in her relationship with my brother, was never rude or anything towards her. In fact through the years my brother got into massive debt due to her crazy shopping habits and I payed thousands of dollars in his behalf from loans to credit cards you name it and not always I got my money back. At some point I even payed for an adoption lawyer (when they tried to adopt) and the list goes on. Yes there were times I had to say no to my brother's money requests because I'm not an ATM and frankly one thing is help out when they are on a tough spot other is co sign for a loan because brother has bad credit and SIL wanted a lexus for her birthday. She does hava a problem being told NO and yes I had to do that many but many times through the years.


----------



## morituri

CB,

This little scene is a gift from Heaven. Now there is a police report which will detail the antics of your bat sh!t crazy SIL and how she came to attack your wife - police witnessed it. In a way, your SIL was/is more dangerous than the OM because she was the mastermind behind the OM coming to town and feeding his delusions that your wife was in love with him - as well as probably providing him with the means to stay a couple of days in town.

Contact your attorney and have your wife explain to him what happened. It seems that now you have what is needed for a RO to be issued against your SIL. She is after all the head of snake and once you cut the head, the body dies.


----------



## lordmayhem

Voiceofreason said:


> This actually adds some clarity to what has been going on with SIL and brother. Earlier people were looking for motive, her wanting the kids, etc. to explain her behavior. Now you know SIL is clearly waaaaay off her rocker--now psychotic--and your brother has developed a co-pathology and enabling personality to cope with living with her. Sad really. It happens with some couples. One goes off mentally and the other just kind of goes along.
> 
> Very sorry you are getting the Jerry Springer quadruple whammy here CB (dealing with WW, bro, SIL and basement boy). You sir, are a pillar of strength and handling yourself and those around you admirably...you are the eye of the storm...you are the only adult in the room...you are the rock for WW and kids to tie to in the chaos...no doubt WW finds this very attractive right now...regardless of the outcome, you are da man CB...good luck carry on...


Jerry Springer type situation is right. :scratchhead:

Sorry you have to go through this CB.


----------



## Dadof3

morituri said:


> CB,
> 
> This little scene is a gift from Heaven. Now there is a police report which will detail the antics of your bat sh!t crazy SIL and how she came to attack your wife - police witnessed it. In a way, your SIL was/is more dangerous than the OM because she was the mastermind behind the OM coming to town and feeding his delusions that your wife was in love with him - as well as probably providing him with the means to stay a couple of days in town.
> 
> Contact your attorney and have your wife explain to him what happened. It seems that now you have what is needed for a RO to be issued against your SIL. *She is after all the head of snake and once you cut the head, the body dies*.


Correction: Two headed snake - the SIL created a two headed snake. Cause the OM is delusional (and bipolar) - she created an automaton who will need additional effort to disable.

IMHO.


----------



## morituri

*SIL?*


----------



## clairebear

precious :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## clairebear

yea, I'm going to contact the lawyer and see what he tells me about it


----------



## uphillbattle

I don't know how the SIL can even reasonably say you are abusive. Anybody who had abusive tendancies would have bloodied up 4 differnt people by now. Hell, I am far from abusive and I would have at the verry least kicked the **** out of 2 people by now. You have been a class act to this point and seem to be verry graceful under pressure. Good job, keep it up.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I'm almost afraid to click this thread anymore in fear of reading what has happened next. I am so sorry you have to deal with this cluster f*** CB. 


a few thoughts....

I find it ironic that your SIL is screaming that you have brainwashed your wife. If there's any argument to be made that someone was brainwashed in this circle of people, it would be your brother.

While all I can do is arm-chair psychology (which is next to worthless), based on how you describe SIL past and present, your SIL has certainly exhibited symptoms of manic behavior from someone suffering bipolarism. (careless spending, inflated notions of romanticism, high sense of self to get involved in other's business to "make things right", fits of rage, etc.)
Thus the shame of it all is that by putting SIL and OM in the same room is like combining gas and an open flame. The only place these two should ever be together is in group therapy.

I hope someday your brother will wake up to the situation he's placed himself in and finds the strength to either get his wife serious help or leave her to own machinations.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

I was about to reply yesterday that your future book was going well, a real page turner... and a few more twists we might be talking movie script material... 

and then...... today.... Boom! b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l.

I cant wait for the sequel where it turns out OM & SIL had spent time together in the nut house and forged this relationship and whole plan to poach your wife & kids! lol.


----------



## scione

Wow, this is insane. I have to say sorry for suggesting that your wife call your bro and SIL. Your SIL is already insane. Give her another push and she will go into psychopath killer mode. NC letter was a good idea, but I think RO will be more suited.

You are doing everything right. So keep on doing whatever you are doing.


----------



## Jellybeans

Gabriel said:


> OMFG.


Exactly.

Mori -- :rofl:

CB--your SIL and bro are out of control. Wtf is wrong with them? Why don't they mind their business?

My question is--what is your wife saying about all this bullsh!t?


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## clairebear

Thanks Guys.

I don't know what it is but I'm certain now my SIL must have some sort of mental issue, not trying to make excuses but I'm sure the many years of failed infertility treatments and failed adoption attempts is very likely to have played a roll in how she finds herself today mentally. My brother on the other hand always made excuses to odd behaviors and other stuff she did that although were not that important by itself on a bigger picture were already signs she was not well, years ago after their last attempt with the fertility treatments I suggested to my brother they should seek IC to deal with all this, don't if they ever did. I do feel very bad for him, yesterday it was like if wasn't him at all, I don't even find the words to explain.

My wife feels in disbelief about brother/SIL involvement she doesn't understand why they care or why they feel the need to involve themselves and SIL behavior yesterday is just beyond what she could imagine.

As far as the POSOM goes he did not left any trash in our mail box yesterday, my FIL confirmed he is still at the hotel but no trash, maybe I'm being overly optimistic but maybe POSOM just gave up!!!


----------



## joe kidd

clairebear said:


> Thanks Guys.
> 
> I don't know what it is but I'm certain now my SIL must have some sort of mental issue, not trying to make excuses but I'm sure the many years of failed infertility treatments and failed adoption attempts is very likely to have played a roll in how she finds herself today mentally. My brother on the other hand always made excuses to odd behaviors and other stuff she did that although were not that important by itself on a bigger picture were already signs she was not well, years ago after their last attempt with the fertility treatments I suggested to my brother they should seek IC to deal with all this, don't if they ever did. I do feel very bad for him, yesterday it was like if wasn't him at all, I don't even find the words to explain.
> 
> My wife feels in disbelief about brother/SIL involvement she doesn't understand why they care or why they feel the need to involve themselves and SIL behavior yesterday is just beyond what she could imagine.
> 
> As far as the POSOM goes he did not left any trash in our mail box yesterday, my FIL confirmed he is still at the hotel but no trash, maybe I'm being overly optimistic but maybe POSOM just gave up!!!


I hope he gave up too but....expect at least one more desperate act of "love". Stuff like this makes me glad I live in a conceal and carry state.  Good luck man.


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Thanks Guys.
> 
> I don't know what it is but I'm certain now my SIL must have some sort of mental issue, not trying to make excuses but I'm sure the many years of failed infertility treatments and failed adoption attempts is very likely to have played a roll in how she finds herself today mentally. My brother on the other hand always made excuses to odd behaviors and other stuff she did that although were not that important by itself on a bigger picture were already signs she was not well, years ago after their last attempt with the fertility treatments I suggested to my brother they should seek IC to deal with all this, don't if they ever did. I do feel very bad for him, yesterday it was like if wasn't him at all, I don't even find the words to explain.
> 
> My wife feels in disbelief about brother/SIL involvement she doesn't understand why they care or why they feel the need to involve themselves and SIL behavior yesterday is just beyond what she could imagine.
> 
> As far as the POSOM goes he did not left any trash in our mail box yesterday, my FIL confirmed he is still at the hotel but no trash, maybe I'm being overly optimistic but maybe POSOM just gave up!!!


He is probably just in another phase but no problem with wishful thinking if it helps you focus on your wife. Just behave as if he switched his approach. Very likely he is apratment and job hunting.


----------



## WhereAmI

I doubt he gave up. He's probably busy buying billboards or doing something equally insane. More "romantic gestures" are sure to come. Don't get comfortable yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Yes you're being overly optimistic
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

So has your wife called SIL and your bro out on their BS? 

This story is nuts.


----------



## Entropy3000

WhereAmI said:


> I doubt he gave up. *He's probably busy buying billboards* or doing something equally insane. More "romantic gestures" are sure to come. Don't get comfortable yet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good call!


----------



## joe kidd

WhereAmI said:


> I doubt he gave up. He's probably busy buying billboards or doing something equally insane. More "romantic gestures" are sure to come. Don't get comfortable yet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just hope he doesn't go all Van Gogh and leave other things in your mailbox.


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## clairebear

Yes my wife called them on their crap, the police was also not please to come back to my house again in less than three days over what they call a "domestic dispute".

Yea guys you probably right and I'm being too optimistic but maybe the fact he didn't let any trash means that he might at least be thinking about giving up and go back to his basement or as I early on had found out he was planning to move across the country and start his own business maybe he will, that would be for the best!!!!


----------



## joe kidd

Whether or not the police were pleased would be the least of my concerns. That's what they are there for. They will come when called. As I said I really hope you are done with basement boy.


----------



## F-102

Go on vacation with your W to get away and reconnect, but for gods sake, DON'T LET ANYONE IN YOUR FAMILY KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING!!! 

SIL will surely tell POSOM where you are, and buy him a plane ticket to win back his true love!

As far as your brother-he's too far gone.

And, I'm also wondering: did the POSOM even have any ideas about reconnecting with your W? Or, did SIL put the idea in his head, probably when she saw the two of them together at the wedding?


----------



## morituri

I know it's not that easy but have you thought about moving far away from loonytunyville?


----------



## Eli-Zor

> Go on vacation with your W to get away and reconnect, but for gods sake, DON'T LET ANYONE IN YOUR FAMILY KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING!!!


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

go go go


----------



## clairebear

Yes, we will today after lunch to MIL'S relative, we were supposed to go this morning but with everything that happened yesterday I needed a few more hours of sleep this morning, is just an hour drive but still. Brother/SIL don't know MIL's relative and only the in laws know where we are going, they 100% on my side and won't say anything, not even MIL's relative was told why we going.

Well I was told by both SIL/Brother and the POSOM's parents when I exposed to them, that POSOM never forgot my wife and always hoped to reconnect to the point all this years he never dated anyone else. I think was a combination of the two things POSOM has been crazy all this years and SIL with her own craziness helped the nut bag.

FIL yesterday offered again to buy our house so we could have immediately the cash to move and buy a new house, he then would sell it and whenever it would be sold he could get the money back, wife also suggested we do just that but I still not sure.


----------



## Almostrecovered

clairebear said:


> FIL yesterday offered again to buy our house so we could have immediately the cash to move and buy a new house, he then would sell it and whenever it would be sold he could get the money back, wife also suggested we do just that but I still not sure.



That's a HUGE decision and an incredibly generous offer by your FIL.

As much as your instinct may be to move right away, you really should give it much thought and consideration before deciding as such.


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## morituri

In a healthier situation, moving away is not necessary but since your situation is far from healthy because SIL and POSOM have proven themselves capable and willing of physical confrontation, it may be a wise choice. For your family's sake, your children in particular, you should seriously consider taking advantage of this opportunity.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

You know maybe its just me...but I wouldn't let anyone force me from my house. If you want to move and you think it's a good deal then no harm. If your moving because your SIL, brother, or POSOM are making you nervous then I say stand your ground. A mans house is his castle! 

If they continue to harass you, get restraining orders. Get a big dog.


----------



## scione

I think the OM is some kind of a well put together stalker. He won't do the same thing over and over and expect different result. I am thinking he is planning for something. He didn't just quit his job and leave everything just to give up in a few days. Just be careful and go on vacation for a week or two.

Looks like you can trust your wife to do the right thing. But for somebody to sit in a car for hours waiting for an opportunity, kidnapping sounds like a possibility.

I think I watched too many CSI.


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## Jellybeans

I agree with Geoffrey. Why move for other people?


----------



## Jellybeans

scione said:


> I think the OM is some kind of a well put together stalker. He won't do the same thing over and over and expect different result. I am thinking he is planning for something. He didn't just quit his job and leave everything just to give up in a few days. Just be careful and go on vacation for a week or two.
> 
> But for somebody to sit in a car for hours waiting for an opportunity, kidnapping sounds like a possibility.
> 
> I think I watched too many CSI.


I agree. A normal and stable person does not sit outside of a married couple's home waiting and waiting and waiting. It's seriously psychotic and is stalking. Which is a criminal offense. Not to mention he had the FREAKING NERVE to put all that stuff in your mailbox. A federal offense. He needs his a$4 kicked. I'm not advocating violence but he needs a eal wake up call. Be careful, CB. This guy isn't working with a full deck.

Re: your wife, it's insane to me that she seems to just be waching this all go down and being sort of quiet about it. A real woman would tell him, "Hey --you can't come to my house and be waiting around my property and lingering around and stuffing my mailbox with stuff. I am married. You need to respect that. I dont want to be with you. I made a very poor decision in getting involved with you again and I've decided I want my marriage. The time has come for you to go back home. If you really care about me/love me, you would respect what I am saying and back off. There is nothing for you here." 

And then she'd tell your SIL and bro to please stop getting involved with your marriage.

Your wife isn't acting right, IMO. Something is off.

And that guy sounds like a volcano waiting to erupt.

BE careful!


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## Entropy3000

The moving would get them away from the Brother / SIL. And the OM for at least some time. But the key there would be that they would have a fresh start and the OM would not have friends that would support him where they go. 

In the current situation thye have to deal with three toxic people, one supporting the other. Not good. If they move they just have to deal with the OM. It can be then shown that he moved twice to follow them which helps ultimately when his body is found inside the house as he is trying to break in.


----------



## Entropy3000

Jellybeans said:


> I agree. A normal and stable person does not sit outside of a married couple's home waiting and waiting and waiting. It's seriously psychotic and is stalking. Which is a criminal offense. Not to mention he had the FREAKING NERVE to put all that stuff in your mailbox. A federal offense. He needs his a$4 kicked. I'm not advocating violence but he needs a eal wake up call. Be careful, CB. This guy isn't working with a full deck.
> 
> Re: your wife, it's insane to me that she seems to just be waching this all go down and being sort of quiet about it. A real woman would tell him, "Hey --you can't come to my house and be waiting around my property and lingering around and stuffing my mailbox with stuff. I am married. You need to respect that. I dont want to be with you. I made a very poor decision in getting involved with you again and I've decided I want my marriage. The time has come for you to go back home. If you really care about me/love me, you would respect what I am saying and back off. There is nothing for you here."
> 
> And then she'd tell your SIL and bro to please stop getting involved with your marriage.
> 
> Your wife isn't acting right, IMO. Something is off.
> 
> And that guy sounds like a volcano waiting to erupt.
> 
> BE careful!


I guess I read where she has done this by calling the police on the OM and with her confrontatio with the SIL.

Not sure what else she should be doing. Her going to seek out the OM is not a good idea. Her talking to him when he comes to the door is not a good idea without police presence. he could force the door open, and hurt her, rape her or kidnap her.

The OM is like a child. Negative attention is still attention.


----------



## clairebear

The chance of moving is great but needs to be very well thought, there's many things involved with moving.

POSOM is a bigger concern than my brother/SIL, as he is more likely to keep up this crap and become stalking us or who knows what else, it concerns me alot he left his job and has been so far away from his basement already for this many days. Brother/SIL I think they will very likely sooner or later give up, the fact my brother yesterday didn't said a word speaks volumes to me, all his life when he was done with something you wouldn't hear a word from him about the subject anymore, SIL is also the type that will pursue something until the end but if things don't go her way throws a tantrum and she is done, they will receive the no contact letter probably tomorrow and there's a police report on SIL any other attempts to contact me or my wife we will go straight to the court house and seek an RO.

Wife confronted brother/SIL yesterday and confronted the POSOM on monday when she called the cops on him, I confirmed it with the cops and also have it on VAR.

The issue gonna be next week, I go back to work on monday, wife will be home alone all day (well with the kids but you get the point) I have all the spy stuff up and also contacted the PI, as I'm sure you can imagine I will not hold her hostage at home or forbid her to take our daughter to the ballet etc etc so I'm doing my part, trusting her, verifying but ultimately it's up to her to do the right thing or not, until now she has done everything I asked her and I have reasons to believe she is sincere but only the week ahead and time will tell me if she really means business, if she does we keep working on it if she doesn't I know what to do.


----------



## clairebear

We have a big dog :smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## joe kidd

While your SIL set this up your wife did encourage it for a brief time. Has she said sorry about her part in bringing this joker into your life?


----------



## clairebear

Yes, she has asked for my forgiveness many times, showed herself remorseful, took responsibility for it all including when she was confronted by my in laws and has not blame me for it, until now she has put all the blame on herself.


----------



## joe kidd

clairebear said:


> Yes, she has asked for my forgiveness many times, showed herself remorseful, took responsibility for it all including when she was confronted by my in laws and has not blame me for it, until now she has put all the blame on herself.


Ok. Man I wish you all the luck.


----------



## clairebear

Thanks man. I'm hoping for the best but still on the look out for the worst.


----------



## TRy

clairebear said:


> The chance of moving is great but needs to be very well thought, there's many things involved with moving.


If you like the idea of moving then below is what you should do.

1) Move right now. That means rent a new place this weekend. Do not tell anyone where you are moving too. That means no one. This will give you time to fix your marriage without outside interference. 

2) You need to stop worrying about the OM and start working on you M. Your wife has been doing all the right things at all the key moments. It is now your turn. Plan the honeymoon for as soon as possible. Let your wife pick where she wants to go and what she wants to do. Take her on dates where you are not allowed to talk about the OM, your kids, or any other issues. Just have fun. Be kids together again. Maybe even see a chick flick with her.

3) You need to become a couple. You did not have a good start to your M because you were never a couple, you were a family with kids right from the start. No honeymoon? No taking her out to dinner in the last 6 years? And you wonder why you have issues in your M? Kids stress all marriages but most couples have good couple memories to fall back on. You need to build fun couple memories with her. Tell her you are sorry for this and that you are committed to making changes to correct this. 

Action speaks louder than words.


----------



## Chaparral

clairebear said:


> The chance of moving is great but needs to be very well thought, there's many things involved with moving.
> 
> POSOM is a bigger concern than my brother/SIL, as he is more likely to keep up this crap and become stalking us or who knows what else, it concerns me alot he left his job and has been so far away from his basement already for this many days. Brother/SIL I think they will very likely sooner or later give up, the fact my brother yesterday didn't said a word speaks volumes to me, all his life when he was done with something you wouldn't hear a word from him about the subject anymore, SIL is also the type that will pursue something until the end but if things don't go her way throws a tantrum and she is done, they will receive the no contact letter probably tomorrow and there's a police report on SIL any other attempts to contact me or my wife we will go straight to the court house and seek an RO.
> 
> Wife confronted brother/SIL yesterday and confronted the POSOM on monday when she called the cops on him, I confirmed it with the cops and also have it on VAR.
> 
> The issue gonna be next week, I go back to work on monday, wife will be home alone all day (well with the kids but you get the point) I have all the spy stuff up and also contacted the PI, as I'm sure you can imagine I will not hold her hostage at home or forbid her to take our daughter to the ballet etc etc so I'm doing my part, trusting her, verifying but ultimately it's up to her to do the right thing or not, until now she has done everything I asked her and I have reasons to believe she is sincere but only the week ahead and time will tell me if she really means business, if she does we keep working on it if she doesn't I know what to do.


I understand you not wanting to hold your wife "hostage" but there is not one chance in he!! I would leave my wife alone with the nuts you have described that are running around loose and are after your wife.

With what they have done so far anything is possible. Your number one responsibility to your family is to keep them safe. And make no mistake, you and your family are in danger. You are dealing with at least 2 mentally unstable people who have become psycho.

Your second responsibility to your family is to provide for them. You have all ready shown you have been putting your job ahead of your family your whole marriage and this is why you are in the position you're in now. It is time now to do the right thing before something you can't fix happens. There will always be jobs but your family needs you now and a job is a very distant second.


Get real,

Chap


----------



## clairebear

Thanks Guys for the advice and wake up call!!! Wife, the kids and I had a great time this afternoon, MIL came along with us so she can look after the kids, they will stay with MIL's relative in the house's first floor while wife and I will have the second floor just for ourselves. Wife and I started reading His Needs Her Needs, we also finished the questionaries I had printed out, wow what an wake up call!!! I have drop the ball so many times over the years!!! Some of the things I could have done and didn't are quite frankly too embarrassing, I do have work to do on myself!!! 

After giving it some thought I decided that on sunday night instead of going back home, I will keep wife and the kids here, as many of you have pointed out it's not safe leave them alone at home at this point. I will go into town to take care of a few issues like go to bank, take more time from work, etc etc and then I will go from there. I'm thinking I may take the wife on that honeymoon while the in laws already offer to look after the kids. I don't know how far the POSOM will go but as of right now this may be the best option.


----------



## the guy

I think you and your wife should start a hobby togther, it will bring you closer.
I suggest joining a gun club, taget shooting is something the both of you could enjoy. 
Or maybe join a gym and the both of you can take MMA classes of a self defense class.

I think learning how to shoot different guns at the gun club would be fun! Just saying.


----------



## the guy

One more thing, maybe your big dog needs another big dog to play with and chase "things" LOL


----------



## clairebear

the guy said:


> I think you and your wife should start a hobby togther, it will bring you closer.
> I suggest joining a gun club, taget shooting is something the both of you could enjoy.
> Or maybe join a gym and the both of you can take MMA classes of a self defense class.
> 
> I think learning how to shoot different guns at the gun club would be fun! Just saying.




Not a bad idea at all!!! I belonged to a gun club back in the day and you have idea how much I'm missing a gun this days lol


----------



## clairebear

the guy said:


> One more thing, maybe your big dog needs another big dog to play with and chase "things" LOL



Yup, as mean and horrible it may sound I did thought about my dog chase a particular "thing" yesterday and only then call the police, it did cross my mind.


----------



## the guy

When I met my wife she had issue with a certain group of guys that liked motor cycles. Its a nice peace of mind when the dog is chained up in the front yard and the gun is in a safe place. 

Me and my WW would practice unlocking it as quick as we could...that was date night back in the day.LOL 


All seriousness its all about peace of mind and what we needed to do. so many years ago. Bottom line is, the 911 is the best option #1, but its nice to have a safe and secure option #2.

And in your case its nice to have options...at least for a little while. At least until the "bunny burner" goes away.


----------



## clairebear

the guy said:


> When I met my wife she had issue with a certain group of guys that liked motor cycles. Its a nice peace of mind when the dog is chained up in the front yard and the gun is in a safe place.
> 
> Me and my WW would practice unlocking it as quick as we could...that was date night back in the day.LOL
> 
> 
> All seriousness its all about peace of mind and what we needed to do. so many years ago. Bottom line is, the 911 is the best option #1, but its nice to have a safe and secure option #2.
> 
> And in your case its nice to have options...at least for a little while. At least until the "bunny burner" goes away.



I owned a gun for many years, although I always kept it locked and in a safe box wife never liked the idea of a gun in the house because of the kids, so when got older she just made me get rid of it. This last week I have considered get one again just in case...

I have kept myself in check and dealing with it through the normal channels 911, lawyer but I have been wanting to just solve it my away maybe a gun is go to far but a serious beating for sure!!!


----------



## the guy

My wife was the one that wanted ...needed to take the steps I mentioned.

In your case, see if she is even interested in shooting, the gun thing sounds like a deal breaker for her and the POSOM may be nuts but dangerous...body bag dangerous,IDK?

The both of you have enough on your plate with the R, bring a gun in the house would be bad. Even though joining a gun club and renting from there and doing some target shooting makes for a fun date for some chicks.


----------



## morituri

CB, you may also want to read Dr Willard Harley's book 'Love Busters' and also complete the Love Buster's questionnaires for wife and husband located *here*. Check it out.


----------



## clairebear

the guy said:


> My wife was the one that wanted ...needed to take the steps I mentioned.
> 
> In your case, see if she is even interested in shooting, the gun thing sounds like a deal breaker for her and the POSOM may be nuts but dangerous...body bag dangerous,IDK?
> 
> The both of you have enough on your plate with the R, bring a gun in the house would be bad. Even though joining a gun club and renting from there and doing some target shooting makes for a fun date for some chicks.



I took wife a few times shooting while we were dating she liked it and was fun, I will definitely make that one of our next dates. Thanks for the great idea!

Yea, I not sure how dangerous POSOM is, he is clearly nuts, today that things were calmer and my thoughts are more settle down I'm getting more concern.


----------



## clairebear

morituri said:


> CB, you may also want to read Dr Willard Harley's book 'Love Busters' and also complete the Love Buster's questionnaires for wife and husband located *here*. Check it out.



Morituri, thanks for the link, I will use it to print out the questionnaires, wife and I got the 'Love Busters' book as well, gonna try to start reading it tomorrow together with His Needs Her needs that we started today.


----------



## Chaparral

Its nice to see your working on your relationship and things are definitely looking up. Stay safe.


----------



## Almostrecovered

yes spending time together and shared interests are huge for repair


----------



## clairebear

Well had a very nice weekend with the wife, we went out for lunch and dinner, spend alot of time together, had some fun, worked on reading keep reading both books, did the questionaries and had plenty of hysterical bounding 

MIL and I are going back to town tomorrow morning, I need to talk with my boss and get the time off, get a new phone number and there's a few other things I need to do. Wife and the kids will stay here.

As far as the POSOM goes, he spent the weekend on his car outside my house, tried to talk to FIL on saturday morning who told him to **** off, his speech is the same wants to talk to my wife "alone" etc etc and left more garbage on our mail box. FIL called the police who said no crime is being committed and we should just ignore him!!!!

On other note on friday evening I was served by proxy (through FIL) with a NC letter from ******* brother and ***** SIL, not sure what to make of it.

I'm thinking maybe is a good idea use the PI to try to find out what the POSOM is up to!!! I don't know check if POS is looking for a home/job here or not, I don't know!!!


----------



## morituri

Here's something that might be of interest



> *Why You Can't Deliver Mail Yourself*
> 
> Postmaster General Patrick R. Donahoe warned that his agency is so financially strapped that it faces a shutdown in 2012. "The Postal Service is on the brink of default," Donahoe said at a U.S. Senate hearing.
> 
> No matter.
> 
> Even in a Postal Service shutdown, you can't deliver the mail yourself.
> 
> "If you have a curbside mailbox or a mailbox on the outside of your house, Postal Service regulations govern what can and can not be placed in them. Generally speaking, only mail that has been sent through the USPS may be placed in these types of receptacles," the Postal Service advises.
> 
> Here's what Section 508.3.1.3 of the Postal Service's Domestic Mail Manual says about delivering letters or other materials yourself:
> 
> "No part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items or matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle. Any mailable matter not bearing postage and found as described above is subject to the same postage as would be paid if it were carried by mail."
> 
> The Postal Service defines postage as "payment for a delivery service that is affixed or imprinted to a mailpiece, usually in the form of a postage stamp, permit imprint, or meter impression."
> Exceptions to Postal Service Regulation
> 
> There is an exception to the U.S. Postal Service's seemingly tough regulations. If you want to deliver a letter, flyer or brochure through the mail slot on someone's front door, go right ahead. The same goes for nonlockable bins or troughs used with apartment house mailboxes.
> 
> "USPS regulations do not govern what can be placed in a mail slot on your door," the Postal Service advises. "This means that if a local business wants to put a flyer in the mail slot, they can do so."
> 
> The Postal Service is concerned only about public use of its mailboxes, or maintaining what it calls its "mailbox monopoly." Even though consumers purchase mailboxes with money out of their own pockets, the Postal Service is permitted under federal laws to dictate the terms of access to them.
> 
> *History of the Postal Service Regulation*
> 
> Congress adopted the mailbox restriction in 1934, according to the Government Accountability Office, to "protect postal revenue by preventing delivery of unstamped matter to mailboxes."
> 
> The U.S. Supreme Court, which heard a complaint from civic groups that the rule infringed on their First Amendment rights under the Constitution, upheld the regulations in 1981.
> 
> "The Court denied the groups' claim, ruling that the law and enforcement actions were not geared in any way to the content of the message placed in mailboxes," according to the Postal Service.
> 
> "The Court also found that mailboxes are an essential part of national mail delivery and that postal customers agree to abide by laws and regulations that apply to their mailboxes in exchange for the Postal Service agreeing to deliver and pick up mail in them."
> 
> *Penalties for Delivering Mail Yourself*
> 
> Anyone caught delivering flyers, brochures or other materials to a mailbox can face prosecution and fines.
> 
> Here's what the U.S. Code says about the infraction:
> 
> "Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits any mailable matter such as statements of accounts, circulars, sale bills, or other like matter, on which no postage has been paid, in any letter box established, approved, or accepted by the Postal Service for the receipt or delivery of mail matter on any mail route with intent to avoid payment of lawful postage thereon, shall for each such offense be fined under this title."
> 
> Violations of the mailbox restriction law can be punished by a fine but not by imprisonment. The maximum fine for each offense is $5,000 for individuals and $10,000 for organizations.


It seems that POSOM may be in violation of USPS regulations. You may want to contact your local post office and see if this is the case.


----------



## Dadof3

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## clairebear

Thanks man, I definitely gonna look into this and I will mention it when I call the lawyer in the morning, I want this POS out of our lives and out of my street!!!


----------



## jnj express

Go to the city atty., and tell them the police are not doing their job, and you will sue the city, if they don't get him out of there---what laws is he breaking, tresspass, he is also stalking, he is harassing, he maybe is vandalizing------or you could call the police and with them there, make a citizens arrest, for any and all of the above

Civil suit could be brought against him, for intentional infliction of emotional distress


----------



## Chaparral

jnj express said:


> Go to the city atty., and tell them the police are not doing their job, and you will sue the city, if they don't get him out of there---what laws is he breaking, tresspass, he is also stalking, he is harassing, he maybe is vandalizing------or you could call the police and with them there, make a citizens arrest, for any and all of the above
> 
> Civil suit could be brought against him, for intentional infliction of emotional distress


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Police are just blowing this off.


----------



## janrobinson

I know it is painful to hear, but it sounds like your wife it going though the "what could have been" with this man. It is new, fresh and good. If you truely love her, let it be.... let her find out he is not what he is cracked up to be.... she with then run back to you..... and it will never be an issue again... OR you can reject her when she runs back to you and it will never be an issue. If she has thought of this dude thoughout your whole marriage, then there is nothing you can do to stop it... She is living out what she has been living in her mind for years. 
When you had sex with her, it wasn't you she was having sex with, you can beat on that. 
If you love her set her free, when she comes back it will be up to you rather you take her back and deal with his mental illness issues .. or you can find someone who you are the love of their life and will be all about you like she is him....... best wishes



clairebear said:


> Hi Everyone, I have been on this site for quit awhile and finally decided to post! I'm at loss and any feed back is welcome!
> 
> I been married for about 10 years, we had ups and downs but I always been thinking we had a good marriage, wife had a 6 years relationship with someone else, I met her after their break up and two years later we got married. Through the years I could see that my wife was often depressed and would cry for no apparent reason, when I would ask her about it she should tell was cause she never really forgot her ex bf and how she still loved him, she was always open about it, we went to MC multiple times over this issue and every time I would think this time it will be ok... well apparently not!!!!! A few weeks ago I found out that she has been what I believe started as an EA and it may not be a PA, she does not deny it and tells me he is/was always the love of her life and that no matter what this time they not giving up on each other!!!! WTF!!!!!!!
> 
> Let me add this guy is bi polar, lives with his parents still and besides my wife has only had one gf all his life!!!!! I confronted him after find out and he had the nerve to tell me " she is mine and I'm fighting for her she is the love of my life" I just wanted to punch is romeo face, don't know how I controlled myself!!!!!
> 
> I'm enraged, hurt and still love my wife, I don't want to lose her to this POS!!!!
> 
> Any input is welcome!!!
> 
> PS - My nickname is my daughter's favourite bed time story.


----------



## Jellybeans

How long has POSOM been sleeping in his car outside your house now??

What is your wife saying about this?


----------



## clairebear

I called my lawyer this morning and I waiting to hear back from him, I agree and do think the police is not taking this serious as it is or as I would like, I'm sure they busy and deal with much worse so yea on their book this may not yet be that bad but I want something to be done.

I already did all that and wife wants to stay with me, she does not want to be with POSOM.

He was all weekend inside his car and slept there, this morning FIL says he left and confirmed he is at the hotel.

My wife thinks this is insane, doesn't understand why he would do this on the first place and doesn't understand why he doesn't leave after she made very clear it's over and is confused about what he thinks he will accomplish with this.


----------



## Shaggy

Your wife needs to then go get a restraining order against him, they keep saying you can't do it, that she must do it, ok, let her finally do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

I am with Shaggy--get a restraining order.


----------



## Dadof3

I wanted to add a comment regarding the mail box. I don't think / believe (I used to work at a company that had a postal facility within it and I was at one time certified to Postal Regs) that the police have jurisdiction concerning US Mail. This is strictly a postal matter and needs to be reported to your local Postmaster as such. As the offending mail has been removed, next time some pops up in there, call the Postal Service direct to get someone to come out and take a look. Talk to the Postmaster before hand and let them know what has already happened, and can prepare to look into this next time it happens. When it happens again, DO NOT remove the mail from the box until they have investigated it.

Again, maybe things have changed since the mid 90's.


----------



## Jellybeans

What new garbage did he put in your mailbox?


----------



## clairebear

I intent to ask the lawyer again about a RO, maybe we can't get one now but maybe anything of the sort.

I think you are right, at some point the police mention that unless the unwanted mail mentions violence (what it doesn't) it is not their jurisdiction to investigate or do something about it.

More "love letters", poems and an engagement ring!!!!


----------



## aug

clairebear said:


> More "love letters", poems and *an engagement ring*!!!!



Get the ring appraised. Sell it.

Now you are up: $500, a new cell phone, and a ring.

If this keeps up, you could ask him to support you and the whole family.


----------



## morituri

Dadof3 said:


> This is strictly a postal matter and needs to be reported to your local Postmaster as such. As the offending mail has been removed, next time some pops up in there, call the Postal Service direct to get someone to come out and take a look. *Talk to the Postmaster before hand and let them know what has already happened, and can prepare to look into this next time it happens. When it happens again, DO NOT remove the mail from the box until they have investigated it..*


:iagree:

Get the Postmaster involved ASAP. 

NOBODY but the USPS and YOU (and your immediate family) has the right to open your residential mailbox.


----------



## morituri

aug said:


> Get the ring appraised. Sell it.
> 
> Now you are up: $500, a new cell phone, and a ring.
> 
> If this keeps up, you could ask him to support you and the whole family.



:rofl::lol::rofl::lol:


----------



## clairebear

thanks for the laugh :rofl: I sure need one.

I will this afternoon, doesn't seem fake but not sure how much it may be worth, I just want to shove it down his throat!!!


----------



## aug

clairebear said:


> thanks for the laugh :rofl: I sure need one.
> 
> I will this afternoon, doesn't seem fake but not sure how much it may be worth, I just want to shove it down his throat!!!



It's all cash for your troubles. At least the OM is considerate?!?


----------



## clairebear

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## morituri

clairebear said:


> I will this afternoon, doesn't seem fake but not sure how much it may be worth, I just want to shove it down his throat!!!


Consider shoving it through his southern orifice instead.


----------



## clairebear

morituri said:


> Consider shoving it through his southern orifice instead.



:rofl::rofl::rofl::lol::lol::lol::smthumbup:


----------



## Jellybeans

He put an engagement ring in the mailbox? Seriously? He's mental.

Does your wife know about the ring?


----------



## clairebear

Yes POSOM did. 

Not yet, I only found out about the ring this morning when I stopped by my house, it was on a box that FIL told me POS had left, FIL had not open the box so when he told me about this crap yesterday we weren't aware was this.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Change tact slightly, ask your wife is she wants to know what he writes and sends or can she trust you to protect her from his triggers and deal with it in your way. It would be preferable if you have a secure place that only you can get to and deposit the items therein . 


The OM is picking, he is well aware you are looking at the letters , if he thinks you are not then more fool him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

Eli-Zor said:


> Change tact slightly, ask your wife is she wants to know what he writes and sends or can she trust you to protect her from his triggers and deal with it in your way. The OM is picking, he is well aware you are looking at the letters , if he thinks you are not then more fool him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Wife told me she didn't want to see the first (letter, cell phone, card from hotel/rental and money) but I been tempted to ask her again and today was my first thought. I will ask her. Yea, I think the POSOM must know I am maybe that's even why POS is going this far, POS must know it pisses me off!!!!


----------



## Eli-Zor

Check with your wife again , if she declines to see them do not mention the contents to her. Collect the items , keep them secure one day use the cash and gifts for yourselves or give it to charity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ArmyofJuan

aug said:


> Get the ring appraised. Sell it.
> 
> Now you are up: $500, a new cell phone, and a ring.
> 
> If this keeps up, you could ask him to support you and the whole family.


Dear Diary,
JACKPOT$$!


Also stalking is illegal in most states I believe so get him on that.


----------



## SadSamIAm

I think you should sell the ring. Then put the box back on the mailbox for him. Put the receipt you get for selling the ring in it. Hopefully he paid a couple of grand for it and you can show you pawned it for $200.


----------



## clairebear

Yes I will check with her again.

Well POS is trying to win big!!!, the engagement ring is worth a little over $15,000!!!!!! It's a 3 CT ring!!!! 

I do wish I could flush it down the toilet while POS would be forced to watch or shove it down his throat or up his ass or all of them!!!! I'm so full of hate for this POS!!!


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

clairebear said:


> Yes I will check with her again.
> 
> Well POS is trying to win big!!!, the engagement ring is worth a little over $15,000!!!!!! It's a 3 CT ring!!!!
> 
> I do wish I could flush it down the toilet while POS would be forced to watch or shove it down his throat or up his ass or all of them!!!! I'm so full of hate for this POS!!!



Whoa! Sell that thing on ebay...pay off something.


----------



## scione

I think you should keep all those gifts in a safe place for a while, until things settled down. He might try to sue you to get all of them back.

But then again you can deny that you received any of them.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

scione said:


> I think you should keep all those gifts in a safe place for a while, until things settled down. He might try to sue you to get all of them back.
> 
> But then again you can deny that you received any of them.


He put them in his mailbox...I call that a gift. There is no liability here on CB's part.


----------



## COGypsy

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> He put them in his mailbox...I call that a gift. There is no liability here on CB's part.


You might call it a gift... Others may call it evidence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

scione said:


> I think you should keep all thse gifts in a safe place for a while, until things settled down. He might try to sue you to get all of them back.


Do this. Although clearly a gift, he can sue you over it if you give him this in. Even if he knows that he will probably lose, he may sue just to get to depo your wife with him right there.


scione said:


> But then again you can deny that you received any of them.


Not this. When being questioned by a lawyer someone will always spill the beans.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

OK so the guy lives in his parents basement, worked at a retail store (if I recall) and he somehow has 15k to spring for a ring... and after spending what must be his life savings on this ring, he leaves it in a mailbox?... 

furthermore, he knows (or suspects) that clairebear is the person getting these items... so has so little regard for what is undoubtably the most expensive and most emotionally meaningful purchase of his life that he leaves it in a mailbox to be throw away, stolen by any random person, taken by the mailman, or who knows what? 

No, he wouldnt want to see her face when she saw this amazing symbol of his undying love and devotion?... No, he wouldnt be proud of the 3ct /15k ring and want to share this moment with his life long soulmate? 

Really? lol. ok.


----------



## Gabriel

How old is everyone involved here? Serious question.


----------



## Jellybeans

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> No, he wouldnt want to see her face when she saw this amazing symbol of his undying love and devotion?... No, he wouldnt be proud of the 3ct /15k ring and want to share this moment with his life long soulmate?
> 
> Really? lol. ok.


Like I said, he's not working with a full deck. 

He is nuts.


----------



## Shaggy

Take the ring bx, without the ring. Tie a helium ballon to it. Walk out where he can see you. Wave and let it go. His reaction should be priceless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

Well did talk with the lawyer, as far as the trash in the mail goes he told me to report it to the USPS, the police will not act on it that I may try to pressure them to file a police report (have the lawyer call) but it's unlikely they will. He told me I should keep all the trash for now just in case. He suggested that I hire a server processor and serve him with a cease and desist while he is here and then go from there. I honest don't think this will work but I don't feel I have many other options.

Pit man don't know what to tell you, maybe if I lived in my parents basement for more than 20 years at cost zero I would such quick cash, yea the one I got my wife was more expensive but cost me all my savings of many years but still I was not living for free at someone's basement. Plus he is crazy, nothing he does makes any sense.


----------



## clairebear

Gabriel said:


> How old is everyone involved here? Serious question.


Wife is on her mid 30's, I'm on my early 40's as well as POSOM but his brain his obvious the one of a 2 year old!!!!


----------



## morituri

CB, of course you realize that we don't really know if it was through his years of hard work that he bought that ring. For all we know, your POS SIL and your dumba$$ bro may have loaned him the money to buy that ring. God how I wish it was the latter because I can just picture the look on her face when she finds out that his plan fizzled. It's nice to fantasize sometimes.



> furthermore, he knows (or suspects) that clairebear is the person getting these items.


You don't suppose. Nah it can't be. Oh no. CB, YOU are his love interest. Run CB, run.


----------



## clairebear

I'm very grateful to everyone who took their time to answer my thread and everyone who sincerely wished to help me, this has been the most horrible experience of my life and if wasn't for the good people of this forum I would be in much worse shape, as to the ones who think I'm coming here and making up all the crap I'm going through there's not much I can tell you, I know this is a online forum but shocks me you think I would come here and just make this up. I'm dealing with alot and I just don't need more stress in my life.

Thank you to all of you who answered and sincerely tried to help me!


----------



## Gabriel

Man, I can't believe this guy is STILL hanging around! Like one day, he thinks all the effort will make CB's W say, "Wow, he really, really loves me to be doing all of this." It's unbelievable someone in his 40s would be pulling these shennanigans. It's like the guy is 18!


----------



## aug

clairebear said:


> I'm very grateful to everyone who took their time to answer my thread and everyone who sincerely wished to help me, this has been the most horrible experience of my life and if wasn't for the good people of this forum I would be in much worse shape, as to the ones who think I'm coming here and making up all the crap I'm going through there's not much I can tell you, I know this is a online forum but shocks me you think I would come here and just make this up. I'm dealing with alot and I just don't need more stress in my life.
> 
> Thank you to all of you who answered and sincerely tried to help me!



There is at least a positive to your situation. 

So far, you are up $10,000 plus in assets. You have enough grounds to believe that these items are legitimate gifts or offerings to your wife or yourself. If you cash these in, you should be able to cover your legal fees and expenses that the OM (and your wife) put you through unnecessarily.


----------



## aug

Oh, buy a VAR or hidden cameras to record activities in and out of your house.


----------



## morituri

I really don't know who among us would doubt your word. This type of situation happens every day to thousands of people everywhere, often ending with tragic results. If we've been able to help you just a little bit with our insights, commiseration and silly humor, then we've achieved our purpose.

Nevertheless, you are to be commended for your handling of the situation. It takes a lot of emotional fortitude to face a wife who had a fantasy view of love for her past boyfriend, and more so to face 3 obviously mentally disturbed people, POSOM B!TCH SIL and DUMBA$$ BRO fighting to destroy your marriage and family. You also shown wisdom, in taking this situation as an opportunity for you to communicate with your wife and to learn with her, how the two of you can become the real 'love of his/her life'.

Keep up the good work CB.


----------



## F-102

He suddenly comes up with a 15-grand ring? I'll be willing to bet that the ring was either bought from someone in a dark alley or POSOM's mother is going to realize that her great-grandmother's family heirloom is missing! Get with his family first before you "keep" the ring.

And, I would LMAO if he got it thru your SIL!!!!


----------



## COGypsy

F-102 said:


> He suddenly comes up with a 15-grand ring? I'll be willing to bet that the ring was either bought from someone in a dark alley or *POSOM's mother is going to realize that her great-grandmother's family heirloom is missing*! Get with his family first before you "keep" the ring.
> 
> And, I would LMAO if he got it thru your SIL!!!!


My thoughts exactly! I wouldn't count on someone at some point figuring out that the family treasure is missing and with it abundantly clear that you're aware of his mental health diagnosis and altered mental state....could easily come after you for the value of the ring if you sold it or whatever.

Better just to stash and document his lack of lucidity....


----------



## Chaparral

clairebear said:


> Well did talk with the lawyer, as far as the trash in the mail goes he told me to report it to the USPS, the police will not act on it that I may try to pressure them to file a police report (have the lawyer call) but it's unlikely they will. He told me I should keep all the trash for now just in case. He suggested that I hire a server processor and serve him with a cease and desist while he is here and then go from there. I honest don't think this will work but I don't feel I have many other options.
> 
> Pit man don't know what to tell you, maybe if I lived in my parents basement for more than 20 years at cost zero I would such quick cash, yea the one I got my wife was more expensive but cost me all my savings of many years but still I was not living for free at someone's basement. Plus he is crazy, nothing he does makes any sense.



I just don't understand why the police cannot stop someone from tresspassing? Anyone have a clue? And what about stalking? 

If he'll spend that kind of money he's crazy and dangerous. The police should have him held for observation

:rofl::rofl::scratchhead:


----------



## lordmayhem

chapparal said:


> I just don't understand why the police cannot stop someone from tresspassing? Anyone have a clue? And what about stalking?
> 
> If he'll spend that kind of money he's crazy and dangerous. The police should have him held for observation
> 
> :rofl::rofl::scratchhead:


People watch too much tv or think the police can do everything. The police can only enforce state criminal statutes and city/town ordinances. The mail falls under the USPS, which is under the local US Postmaster, and must be reported through that channel. The local police CANNOT write a report for violating a federal law. 

Is he crazy to spend that much money on a ring? Possibly, that doesn't automatically mean he's a danger to himself or others. Under the circumstances that CB posted, OM does not meet the criteria for being EPCd (Emergency Protective Custody) and transported to a hospital for an eval. 

As for a RO/PO, even his lawyer says he cant go for one yet based on the criminal statutes of his state. I for one would like to know which state this is, because under the criminal statutes of my state, CB would be able to obtain one on OM, and a judge would have no problem signing off on it. OM is definitely stalking and harassing (unwanted contact) according to the statutes of my state. 

marksaysay's WW was able to get a RO on him simply because the judge agreed that marksaysay disturbed her peace. What state/country is CB in?


----------



## krismimo

OHH MY GOD Sounds like my LIFE!!!! Except my hubby didnt cheat but he does have a phsyco ex wife. But I believe everything you said CB. As for police they really dont get involved unless he threatens them or he becomes violent. WOW claire just wow good luck!


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

clairebear said:


> Pit man don't know what to tell you, maybe if I lived in my parents basement for more than 20 years at cost zero ? Plus he is crazy, nothing he does makes any sense.


I hear you. 

Guess it hard to apply logic to someone that has none. I should have learned that and thought that after some parenting classes I took... They said the biggest mistake that parents or adults make is they try to apply adult reasoning and logic to a childs behavior and try to find answers... They don't think like that and any attempt to understand them using "your thinking" is futile and ultimately counter productive...

Note to self: Same applys to nutbags. lol.

Thought to self: ... Hmmmm, Interesting thought, I wonder if the most effective way to deal with nutbags would also be the ways recommended when dealing with / punishing small children? Minimal communication? Clear consequences? Time outs? Maybe counting to three? lol. j/k obviously... lol.


----------



## HelloooNurse

Put him in the "naughty corner".


----------



## clairebear

Well POSOM was served with the cease and desist. My lawyer also gave a contact of a lawyer whose main area is domestic violence and stalking, he suggested I get an appointment and talk to him. I will do that.

We had our first MC session today and I think it was ok, wife seemed very committed to help me heal and work on our marriage, the MC was also much stronger about all this than the previous MC's we saw that to some extent made excuses to wife's behavior, wife said she no longer feels about POSOM the "same way as before" "doesn't want be with him" but "still has some feelings for him" so yea not what I wanted to hear. 

I'm just trying to take one day at the time. Again thanks guys for all your help, you have made a huge difference in helping me deal with all this ****.


----------



## the guy

Come on, you could have heard her say she loved OM and only wants you for your penis or money. She wants you period and you have a long way to go before your start to hear what you want to hear from her.

She's not telling you what you want to hear, she telling you whats on her mind. That something brother, and it aint worth dismissing. So acknowledge her feelings and show her the reason why she wants you by being the confident man that can beat this sh1t and be the better man that can take his W and make her feel good.

Again, go and show her why she picked you by taking her to that place that she wants to be with you.


----------



## Chaparral

the guy said:


> Come on, you could have heard her say she loved OM and only wants you for your penis or money. She wants you period and you have a long way to go before your start to hear what you want to hear from her.
> 
> She's not telling you what you want to hear, she telling you whats on her mind. That something brother, and it aint worth dismissing. So acknowledge her feelings and show her the reason why she wants you by being the confident man that can beat this sh1t and be the better man that can take his W and make her feel good.
> 
> Again, go and show her why she picked you by taking her to that place that she wants to be with you.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: Dittoes


----------



## clairebear

the guy said:


> Come on, you could have heard her say she loved OM and only wants you for your penis or money. She wants you period and you have a long way to go before your start to hear what you want to hear from her.
> 
> She's not telling you what you want to hear, she telling you whats on her mind. That something brother, and it aint worth dismissing. So acknowledge her feelings and show her the reason why she wants you by being the confident man that can beat this sh1t and be the better man that can take his W and make her feel good.
> 
> Again, go and show her why she picked you by taking her to that place that she wants to be with you.



Thanks man, I need to get myself together and show her I can be that man, your right. I just had a very tough day, been through a roller coaster of emotions lately, need to get a better hold of myself and be here for her. I need to beat this **** and make my marriage better than ever was.


----------



## TRy

clairebear said:


> Thanks man, I need to get myself together and show her I can be that man, your right. I just had a very tough day, been through a roller coaster of emotions lately, need to get a better hold of myself and be here for her. I need to beat this **** and make my marriage better than ever was.


You were tough on her when you needed to be tough. Now is the time to earn all of her love back from the POSOM. You cannot demand love. You must earn it.


----------



## Almostrecovered

CB do know that it appears your wife has passed many tests so far, tougher than what most DSes have to pass. If she wanted him, she would've been long gone by now. I know you want her to just hate him, but it doesn't always happen like a switch. Just be patient and continue to listen, acknowledge and respond without being defensive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

Is that fool still hanging outside your house? Wht happened after the cease & desist?


----------



## joe kidd

Jellybeans said:


> Is that fool still hanging outside your house? Wht happened after the cease & desist?


If he is this is what you do. Lay down a couple wheelbarrows full of gravel in the lawn beside his car. Then.....mow over it. Bagger off and discharge facing his way.


----------



## Almostrecovered

joe kidd said:


> If he is this is what you do. Lay down a couple wheelbarrows full of gravel in the lawn beside his car. Then.....mow over it. Bagger off and discharge facing his way.



use money and ring to buy new mower


----------



## clairebear

Neither FIL or I have been at my home so I'm not sure if POSOM has been around, he did indeed checked out of the hotel this morning as his reservation stated he would. 

I set an appointment with the lawyer my lawyer recommend, also talked with him a little about the case over the phone, he advised me to send another server processor to serve POS at his home address, if he is not there he can be served by proxy through his parents and this way POSOM's parents will also be informed what is going on. For legal reasons the lawyer said is good if he is also served at his official home address so he cannot use this fact in any sort of loophole in case we end up in court.

If POSOM violates the cease and desist the lawyer thinks the next step will be to try to get a RO, what he thinks won't be easy but we have a shot.

I have been thinking in calling a repo company :rofl::rofl: :lol:


----------



## Eli-Zor

clairebear once the OM is out of the picture , and he will be , you will find yourself going through different emotional states, you are still to experience the range of them and your wife will be the target. 

Forewarn your wife , be ready and take time out for yourself, if you are angry let her know and go for a walk or go to the gym. Give yourself time to clear your mind , let the thoughts pass, if you analyze to much you will not have the answers you are seeking and this will irritate you. 

Spend a good 15 to 20 hours a week alone time with your wife. Date her, court her, go to a football match together (if she wishes to) . Do something she enjoys as well, dancing or such like. This is husband and wife time.

For some pointers read the book "his needs her needs" by Harley , its about $11 from Amazon .


----------



## Entropy3000

Updates?


----------



## krismimo

Clairbear how ar things going so far?


----------



## clairebear

Thanks Eli-Zor, Entropy and Krismimo for the advice and checking on me.

Last couple of days I been dealing with the anger issue, it comes out of no where and I feel I could just explode at my wife for no apparent reason, I have controlled myself around her so far.

The in laws have been great and we agreed that every month they will take the kids two weekends and during the week at least once . I'm also looking into activities we can do together, my wife did ballet for more than 20 years, she was a professional ballerina and has always asked me to join a couple's dance class with her I been thinking I will surprise her with that. The football is also a great idea, she used to go with my brother in law before we were married but since then I have never took her to any games.

We are both reading "His Needs Her Needs" it has been an eye opener! 

As far as the POSOM goes I sent the server processor to serve him at his home address as well, as my lawyer suggested, POS was not there and the cease and the desist was given to his parents. It is not clear to me if he returned home or not. After this my lawyer received a BS call from a lawyer who claims to be their "family lawyer" meaning POSOM's parents are paying for it, who says POSOM wants to make a "deal" basically that POS meets with my wife in my lawyer's office so they can "talk" and after this POS will leave us alone. Lawyer claims that "his client" only wants to speak with his "friend" and that I through brainwashing I'm preventing this and with a "talk" this could all be "solved". The lawyer also claimed a bunch of BS to justify all the insane behavior POS has engaged into and that I'm the one preventing my wife to talk to him, even when she called the police on POS it was my "fault".

Lawyer also wants the ring back that he claims is a "family heirloom" if not they will sue us for it!!! Tomorrow I have an appointment with the new lawyer and will see how we will respond to all this BS!!!! 

I will certain not agree to any meeting between POSOM and my wife and as far as the ring goes I don't want give them anything!!!!


----------



## krismimo

you are right, and As far as a ring is concerned WHAT Ring? You never got it.... too bad probably got lost somewhere.....


----------



## Entropy3000

New Lawyer? What happened with your old lawyer? He wants out?

Is there a legal basis for "brain washing"? I mean realisitically if someone falls in love with someone we can say they are brain washed.

I am thinking this is blackmail. To threaten to stalk someone. To make a deal that the stalking will stop if a demand is met. Deliver this man's wife to me under these cicumstances whether she wants to or not. Really!? 

Sorry, but this guy would end up ... missing.


----------



## clairebear

krismimo said:


> you are right, and As far as a ring is concerned WHAT Ring? You never got it.... too bad probably got lost somewhere.....


That's the direction I'm going, I don't want give them anything back!!!


----------



## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> New Lawyer? What happened with your old lawyer? He wants out?
> 
> Is there a legal basis for "brain washing"? I mean realisitically if someone falls in love with someone we can say they are brain washed.
> 
> I am thinking this is blackmail. To threaten to stalk someone. To make a deal that the stalking will stop if a demand is met. Deliver this man's wife to me under these cicumstances whether she wants to or not. Really!?
> 
> Sorry, but this guy would end up ... missing.


My lawyer suggested I go with this other guy, this lawyer his main area is domestic violence and stalking and my lawyer thinks that if this ends up in court I will be better represented with someone who this is their main area than with him.

Yes, their lawyer is full of BS, he went as far as say that FIL/BIL and I were the ones harassing POSOM when we called the police on him!!! Their argument is that she doesn't want because I "don't let her".

I have been tempted to go that route...


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> My lawyer suggested I go with this other guy, this lawyer his main area is domestic violence and stalking and my lawyer thinks that if this ends up in court I will be better represented with someone who this is their main area than with him.
> 
> Yes, their lawyer is full of BS, he went as far as stated that FIL/BIL and I were the one harassing POSOM when we called the police on him!!! Their argument is that she doesn't want because I "don't let her".
> 
> I have been tempted to go that route...


I think I would propose that I just want to be alone with this guy for thirty minutes in an isolated area because he is obviously brain washed into thinking my wife will leave with him. The voices must be telling him this. That would be my deal. To help the voices to go away.

So he is going to sue you for not delivering your wife to him. Who knew this was ok? Maybe it will go to the supreme court and we will find that in the pursuit of happiness any man can request time with another man's wife as she is held against her will by her husband.

Any man who is creepy enough to continue this as he is, is creepy enough to eventually break into your home. Seriously.


----------



## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> I think I would propose that I just want to be alone with this guy for thirty minutes in an isolated area because he is obviously brain washed into thinking my wife will leave with him. The voices must be telling him this. That would be my deal. To help the voices to go away.


POS is delusional, the sad thing is that all along I kinda have been feeling bad for POS parents but now I feel enraged at them as well, they must be footing the lawyer's bill, I might be wrong but I feel they been enabling him all along on this fantasy. POS must really think that the only way my wife cannot want him is if she is being "brain washed" by me. There's no way I will agree to any agreements, there's no settling!


----------



## lordmayhem

What state/country do you live in?


----------



## clairebear

I'm in the US, rather not post the state for now, just in case!


----------



## lordmayhem

clairebear said:


> I'm in the US, rather not post the state for now, just in case!


In case of what? That OM might find you? That OM or his family or lawyer might know your identity?


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> POS is delusional, the sad thing is that all along I kinda have been feeling bad for POS parents but now I feel enraged at them as well, they must be footing the lawyer's bill, I might be wrong but I feel they been enabling him all along on this fantasy. POS must really think that the only way my wife cannot want him is if she is being "brain washed" by me. There's no way I will agree to any agreements, there's no settling!


The acorn does not fall far from the tree. They are probably the lion share of why he is so screwed up.


----------



## clairebear

lordmayhem said:


> In case of what? That OM might find you? That OM or his family or lawyer might know your identity?



I never thought I would found myself here and I did, for now I will be careful.


----------



## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> The acorn does not fall far from the tree. They are probably the lion share of why he is so screwed up.


Yea, I was naive to think that his parents could/would talk some sense into him, special if they were aware of the cease and desist, clearly they will not or who knows what POS may have told them. I have a hard time believing any parents would support their son/daughter in pursuing someone married but my own family did so what do I know.


----------



## aug

clairebear said:


> Lawyer also wants the ring back that he claims is a "family heirloom" if not they will sue us for it!!! Tomorrow I have an appointment with the new lawyer and will see how we will respond to all this BS!!!!


Ask the POS to prove that there was a ring or anything else for that matter. Ask him to show documentation (eg, old appraisal of ring). Admit nothing and ask him to provide evidence of the ring.


----------



## Chaparral

clairebear said:


> Yea, I was naive to think that his parents could/would talk some sense into him, special if they were aware of the cease and desist, clearly they will not or who knows what POS may have told them. I have a hard time believing any parents would support their son/daughter in pursuing someone married but my own family did so what do I know.[/QUO
> 
> 
> Parents may just be freaked at the loss of such an expensive ring. Any way to tell if it is really old or new?
> 
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## F-102

clairebear said:


> Thanks Eli-Zor, Entropy and Krismimo for the advice and checking on me.
> 
> Last couple of days I been dealing with the anger issue, it comes out of no where and I feel I could just explode at my wife for no apparent reason, I have controlled myself around her so far.
> 
> The in laws have been great and we agreed that every month they will take the kids two weekends and during the week at least once . I'm also looking into activities we can do together, my wife did ballet for more than 20 years, she was a professional ballerina and has always asked me to join a couple's dance class with her I been thinking I will surprise her with that. The football is also a great idea, she used to go with my brother in law before we were married but since then I have never took her to any games.
> 
> We are both reading "His Needs Her Needs" it has been an eye opener!
> 
> As far as the POSOM goes I sent the server processor to serve him at his home address as well, as my lawyer suggested, POS was not there and the cease and the desist was given to his parents. It is not clear to me if he returned home or not. After this my lawyer received a BS call from a lawyer who claims to be their "family lawyer" meaning POSOM's parents are paying for it, who says POSOM wants to make a "deal" basically that POS meets with my wife in my lawyer's office so they can "talk" and after this POS will leave us alone. Lawyer claims that "his client" only wants to speak with his "friend" and that I through brainwashing I'm preventing this and with a "talk" this could all be "solved". The lawyer also claimed a bunch of BS to justify all the insane behavior POS has engaged into and that I'm the one preventing my wife to talk to him, even when she called the police on POS it was my "fault".
> 
> Lawyer also wants the ring back that he claims is a "family heirloom" if not they will sue us for it!!! Tomorrow I have an appointment with the new lawyer and will see how we will respond to all this BS!!!!
> 
> I will certain not agree to any meeting between POSOM and my wife and as far as the ring goes I don't want give them anything!!!!


Perhaps you should have put the word "lawyer" in quotation marks. No real attorney would go along with what POSOM is asking.


----------



## PHTlump

clairebear said:


> Yea, I was naive to think that his parents could/would talk some sense into him, special if they were aware of the cease and desist, clearly they will not or who knows what POS may have told them. I have a hard time believing any parents would support their son/daughter in pursuing someone married but my own family did so what do I know.


Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, if your son was living in your basement for years with diminishing chances for a normal, productive life, you might grasp on to any chance for him to improve his condition. Pursuing a married woman certainly isn't ideal, but he's probably told them you're beating her and he's the white knight.

I wouldn't hold much hope for them learning the whole truth and trying to help you keep the OM away from your family. It's too attractive for them to believe you're the bad guy.

As for the ring, I would talk to your lawyer. I don't know that an engagement ring left in a mailbox can be seen as an unconditional gift. If your wife declines the proposal, she may be obligated to return the ring. Even if she's not, you certainly don't want to give the OM any extra incentive to keep contacting you, like trying to get his ring/money back.

Good luck.


----------



## lordmayhem

OM isn't exactly in any position to be making any demands whatsoever. Not even for the ring. It was freely given. :rofl:

I would welcome any lawsuit at this point, OM would end up paying my lawyers fees, not to mention damages for all the mental suffering and emotional anguish he has caused.


----------



## F-102

Agree with PHT-junior can do no wrong.


----------



## Dadof3

I would also add, that the request to have the ring back could also be used against him with the Post Office. This, my friends, is a federal offense and I'm not sure if its a misdemeanor or felony, but you have an "in" with the Post Master on securing a confession that could be used to prosecute him with. I would HIGHLY recommend you pursuing this, if he pushes to get it back.


----------



## TRy

krismimo said:


> you are right, and As far as a ring is concerned WHAT Ring? You never got it.... too bad probably got lost somewhere.....


As much fun as it sounds, do not go down this road. Handled wrong, this could be the legal hook that POS uses to stay in you lives. He would take legal action and be there when your wife's depo is taken as to the whereabouts of the ring. Also, right now your wife sees you as the good guy. Do you really want to ask her to lie about the ring in a depo?


----------



## Dadof3

Here is a link. I STRONGLY suggest you file a complaint, and do it NOW.

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/MLNtRcvd.aspx

This will throw him for a new loop altogether. You and your wife have done no wrong, but he has already broken at least one law. Pursue it. Show him there are consequences for being batsh*t crazy.


----------



## Dadof3

-CITE-
18 USC Sec. 1725 01/07/2011

-EXPCITE-
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 83 - POSTAL SERVICE

-HEAD-
Sec. 1725. Postage unpaid on deposited mail matter

-STATUTE-
Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits any mailable matter such
as statements of accounts, circulars, sale bills, or other like
matter, on which no postage has been paid, in any letter box
established, approved, or accepted by the Postal Service for the
receipt or delivery of mail matter on any mail route with intent to
avoid payment of lawful postage thereon, shall for each such
offense be fined under this title.

-SOURCE-
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 784; Pub. L. 91-375, Sec.
6(j)(33), Aug. 12, 1970, 84 Stat. 780; Pub. L. 103-322, title
XXXIII, Sec. 330016(1)(F), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)


----------



## Dadof3

I would also find out if the "lawyer" who sent the letter was in fact, genuine.


----------



## Dadof3

Nothing would scare an ambulance chaser off faster than by letting them know that a federal crime was committed with said family heirloom.


----------



## aug

If you complain to the postal inspector about the packages, then you cant claim it as gifts.

They are obviously gifts. Once a person gifted something away, they have no (legal) right to get it back.


----------



## PHTlump

lordmayhem said:


> OM isn't exactly in any position to be making any demands whatsoever. Not even for the ring. It was freely given. :rofl:


IANAL, but there are legal issues concerning conditional gifts. And I would consider an engagement ring a conditional gift.
And so would Roy Williams.
Cowboys' Roy Williams files lawsuit to get engagement ring back - NFL - Sporting News



lordmayhem said:


> I would welcome any lawsuit at this point, OM would end up paying my lawyers fees, not to mention damages for all the mental suffering and emotional anguish he has caused.


Anguish would be a separate issue. If someone causes you anguish, you are not entitled to steal from them. If keeping a conditional gift is not legal, then you would need to return the gift and sue OM separately for anguish. However, I'm not sure either case is winnable. Attempting to break up a marriage hasn't been prosecuted in this country for a very long time.


----------



## PHTlump

Dadof3 said:


> I would also add, that the request to have the ring back could also be used against him with the Post Office. This, my friends, is a federal offense and I'm not sure if its a misdemeanor or felony, but you have an "in" with the Post Master on securing a confession that could be used to prosecute him with. I would HIGHLY recommend you pursuing this, if he pushes to get it back.


I also question this. The law you quoted doesn't say that putting anything at all in a mailbox is a crime. It states that putting "mailable matter" in a mailbox is a crime. I think you could argue that a ring is not mailable matter, such as letters, fliers, etc.

Although, I think the OP said he did leave a letter in the mailbox. So that would be a violation of the law. But I still doubt the postmaster gets up a posse for that kind of complaint.


----------



## Dadof3

The reg may not be the right one, I think the "tampering" with the post system is the more accurate reg to use on this.

Fact is, if the POS can put something in their mailbox, what can he also TAKE OUT. Therein, lies the crime. It is AGAINST the law to mess with them, around them, and inside of them. 

There was one limited exception I saw, concerning a newspaper item, but the law read that the item had to be out of the mailbox before the next delivery. I think that exception is VERY LIMITED AND VERY RARELY used, if ever.


----------



## Dadof3

With the Post system in the state of financial disrepair it is, I wouldn't put my bets on them not making a big fuss out of this. Think of the fines they could capture.


----------



## karole

Tell the OM's lawyer you thought it was garbage and threw it away. What is he gonna do, get a search warrant for your house to look for something he left willingly and knowingly in YOUR mailbox as a gift to YOUR wife?


----------



## lordmayhem

PHTlump said:


> IANAL, but there are legal issues concerning conditional gifts. And I would consider an engagement ring a conditional gift.
> And so would Roy Williams.
> Cowboys' Roy Williams files lawsuit to get engagement ring back - NFL - Sporting News


Would a ring be a conditional gift for an engagement to an already legally married woman? How can you be engaged to a woman thats already married and living with her husband? And the proposal was not accepted. The case cited doesnt have any bearing on this one.



PHTlump said:


> Anguish would be a separate issue. If someone causes you anguish, you are not entitled to steal from them. If keeping a conditional gift is not legal, then you would need to return the gift and sue OM separately for anguish. However, I'm not sure either case is winnable. Attempting to break up a marriage hasn't been prosecuted in this country for a very long time.


I'm talking about the stalking and harassment that the OM has done that is causing the mental anguish to the wife, husband, and children.


----------



## aug

Keep things simple...

First, ask POS to prove that he left the ring there.

Second, *after proof is provided*, maintain that it's a gift. It'll be up to him to prove otherwise. It'll be easy to knock down any of his assertions.


----------



## Jellybeans

clairebear said:


> As far as the POSOM goes I sent the server processor to serve him at his home address as well, as my lawyer suggested, POS was not there and the cease and the desist was given to his parents. It is not clear to me if he returned home or not. *After this my lawyer received a BS call from a lawyer who claims to be their "family lawyer" m*eaning POSOM's parents are paying for it, who says POSOM wants to make a "deal" basically that POS meets with my wife in my lawyer's office so they can "talk" and after this POS will leave us alone. Lawyer claims that "his client" only wants to speak with his "friend" and that I through brainwashing I'm preventing this and with a "talk" this could all be "solved". The lawyer also claimed a bunch of BS to justify all the insane behavior POS has engaged into and that I'm the one preventing my wife to talk to him, even when she called the police on POS it was my "fault".
> 
> Lawyer also wants the ring back that he claims is a "family heirloom" if not they will sue us for it!!! Tomorrow I have an appointment with the new lawyer and will see how we will respond to all this BS!!!!
> 
> I will certain not agree to any meeting between POSOM and my wife and as far as the ring goes I don't want give them anything!!!!


Are you even sure the "family lawyer" is LEGIT? Most lawyers will respond in writing to this BS. Sure, a call can be made but they generally follow up with a letter of representation and outline what their client wants.

For all you know, the "family lawyer" is not even real. It coul be POSOM.

I have never heard of a lawyer saying the clients should meet up to talk and discuss things after a "cease and desist" order is handed out. *That would violate the entire order. * DUH. 

If you've ordered that idiot to stay away from you, then why the F would it be ok to meet with your wife/you/family??? It goes against the entire point of a Cease & Desist. :scratchhead:

I would file a restaraining order against this fool too and let the courts handle it. You don't have to respond to anything this jacka$$ says. Just let a judge handle it. 

AND DEFINITELY let your postmaster/postal service people know what's going on. It IS a federal offense (the stupid things he's done with your mail/mailbox). 

What is your wife saying?? 

Your wife must feel such shame and guilt for bringing this circus into your life. Totally ridiculous. All of this unnecessary bullsh-t has been brought on because of her.

Grrr.


----------



## Voiceofreason

Be careful about getting into a lawsuit with POSOM. There is an old saying: never wrestle with a pig, because you will both get muddy and the pig will like it.

In a lawsuit, you would have continued contact with this D-bag and he would have the right to be present during depositions and court hearings...most of all you want this guy out of your life and a lawsuit will just draw all that out and continue his emotions toward W and you...and to be sure, lawsuits stir up emotions...

you might consider whatever further steps there are to preserve the no contact order for as long as possible so all he gets is silence from you and W...if you need to remove his excuse by returning the ring, so be it...and besides, as long as you have the ring the drama will continue...maybe it will anyway...who knows....


----------



## Dadof3

wouldn't hurt to distract him with a postal investigation and prosecution.


----------



## clairebear

Thanks everyone for your insight and advice.

I had the meeting with the new lawyer today. POSOM's lawyer is real, he is someone who has worked for the family for many years and has mostly worked in the area of business law.

We will be sending an affidavit answering each statement he made on the phone to my other lawyer, for legal reasons it is important do this in a written format in case we may end up having to go to court.

My lawyer also called their lawyer, I got the impression that neither POSOM or his parents told their lawyer all the facts, my lawyer kept it simple, they will receive the affidavit and my wife under any circumstances will meet with POS. The bottom line is that whatever POS might want to believe my wife does not want to see him, talk to him, to be with him etc... and any future attempts to do so or violations of the cease and desist we will immediately ask what's called an emergency RO.

As far as the ring goes, my lawyer did not confirm or deny that I have it. Their lawyer claims, POS "mother has documentation that proves the ring is family property", that my wife while dating POS "saw that ring many times", the ring is suppose to be for a "future DIL" etc etc.

My lawyer says that if I want to keep the ring they will very likely file a lawsuit, if that happens no matter the outcome that btw can go both ways as lawyer says we both have grounds to want to keep the ring, either way this will be dragged through the courts and I may end up spending more money than the ring is worth. He advice me that we offered them a deal, we will give them the ring back but documentation will be prepared that the ring not only was given back but also that POS did in fact left the ring and the rest of the trash on my mailbox, POS must sign this. Lawyer said that depending how crazy and stalker POS is, he may do what many stalkers do that is basically as long as there is a court case going on he "feels he is having some connection with the person he is stalking" once wife will be there/he will be there etc etc. I need to give this some thought and see what I will do.

I also had already reported it to the USPS about the letters, not about the ring, money or cell phone as I needed to keep this as evidence, the letters I just took copies of it. My lawyer told me today that once their investigation is done POS will most likely have to pay a fee.

My wife is not doing well this past days over all this, she is embarrassed, feels very guilty about it, doesn't understand his behavior and is very concerned.

We will be sending the affidavit in the days ahead and as far as the ring goes I will need to give all this some thought.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

do you really want his grandma's ring? Yeah its worth money, you could sell it... but your selling away her memories, and a families heirloom. yeah this dude is a bag of nuts, he deserves to have it sold off to the wind.. But, I dunno the story behind that thing... I don't want to be linked to that story, and just assume have it gone.

If this douche bought the ring, f*ck him, keep it. lesson learned. but this ring comes with history (yeah, I buy karma, energy, souls, good and evil, the whole thing)

anyway...

you want this a$$wipe to learn his lesson obviously... but I would just assume he take his sh*t and get the f*ck out of my face and my life.


----------



## aug

If you give the ring back, place some conditions on it. For example,

- they indemnify you for your damages (legal fees, costs, etc)
- ask them for a security on their house(?) to indemnify future legal costs (due to their enabling their crazy son)
- the son acknowledges it was a gift or abandoned by him


You didnt go into their house to take the ring. If the ring went missing, the problem is between the son and his parent.


----------



## Entropy3000

He is just basically throwing a tantrum and creating drama. I agree he embrace the legal entanglement because it bonds him to you guys and he is looking for any connection he can have. He is getting attention. Good or bad he does not care right now.

I susprect too that being in a legal situation if you move all parties must know about it. Not sure.


----------



## PHTlump

lordmayhem said:


> Would a ring be a conditional gift for an engagement to an already legally married woman?


Yes. I doubt the marital status of the woman has anything to do with considering an engagement ring a conditional gift.



lordmayhem said:


> How can you be engaged to a woman thats already married and living with her husband?


Again, the marital status of the woman has nothing to do with it. Married woman can date other men, sleep with them, and even promise to marry them. They must divorce their husbands before getting married again, but engagements are legal.



lordmayhem said:


> And the proposal was not accepted. The case cited doesnt have any bearing on this one.


The proposal not being accepted is the most important fact. Due to an engagement ring being a conditional gift, refusing the proposal should result in the return of the ring. The Roy Williams case was more favorable for the woman. He had a two-year relationship with the woman. They got engaged, and then they called off the engagement. And he's arguing that he's still entitled to the return of the ring. The article says that the pertinent issue is which person terminated the engagement.

In this case, there was only a short, online relationship. There was an implicit proposal by leaving the ring, which CB's wife has refused. The OM has a much better case than Roy Williams for demanding the return of the ring.



lordmayhem said:


> I'm talking about the stalking and harassment that the OM has done that is causing the mental anguish to the wife, husband, and children.


Right. I understand that CB, his wife, and his family are upset by the OM's actions. But I don't see how they rise to the level of harassment that would require remuneration. So far, the police and his attorneys haven't even been able to get a restraining order against the other man because he hasn't threatened them or trespassed.

Fortunately, this discussion is moot because CB has two lawyers who are advising him. I'm only discussing things from my limited understanding of the law and based on how I would vote were I on a jury in such a case. I don't want to leave statements unchallenged that another person may read and believe that the law provides, or requires, something that it doesn't.


----------



## Jellybeans

How old is POSOM? 

He is insufferable. And annoying as all get out. 

I would have your lawyer tell them they need to state something saying how he LEFT IT at your house in your MAILBOX which is a federal offense. 

Don't have wife meet with him. 

He is nuts. Completely.

Your wife--Idk how she sleeps at night w/ all this bullsh*t going on because of her.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Right... she SHOULD be embarrassed and guilty.

And hopefully she's remorseful and telling you/showing you so.


----------



## clairebear

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> do you really want his grandma's ring? Yeah its worth money, you could sell it... but your selling away her memories, and a families heirloom. yeah this dude is a bag of nuts, he deserves to have it sold off to the wind.. But, I dunno the story behind that thing... I don't want to be linked to that story, and just assume have it gone.
> 
> If this douche bought the ring, f*ck him, keep it. lesson learned. but this ring comes with history (yeah, I buy karma, energy, souls, good and evil, the whole thing)
> 
> anyway...
> 
> you want this a$$wipe to learn his lesson obviously... but I would just assume he take his sh*t and get the f*ck out of my face and my life.



I hear ya....

As stupid as it may be I just feel like showing him.... and after his mommy and daddy paying for the lawyer... I just want show them too!!!! 

I know is irrational and won't accomplish anything if I do!!! I guess I just would like to make them feel some pain, any pain... a tiny fraction of the pain I have been going through...

I still just want beat the **** out of this POS human trash until there's nothing left!!! It would not change my situation but hell I would feel alot better.


----------



## Gabriel

How has this next suggestion not come up yet....

Can you give him the ring back on condition he agrees to never contact you, your brother, your SIL, or your wife ever again?

Is that enforceable somehow?


----------



## clairebear

Yea, if I give the ring back it documentation will be prepared I won't just give it back.

Right on the money, my lawyer also thinks POS probably wants to drag this to the courts cause as long as he does he will feel "connected to my wife" most stalkers at some point go this route!!! Yes, if we move and there's a legal case going on without a RO my address is not confidential.

POS is on his early forties, 41, 42 I'm not sure.

Well my wife has been an emotional wreck this last couple of days, she really thought he was going to give up. She has been very apologetic and remorseful.


----------



## clairebear

Gabriel said:


> How has this next suggestion not come up yet....
> 
> Can you give him the ring back on condition he agrees to never contact you, your brother, your SIL, or your wife ever again?
> 
> Is that enforceable somehow?



I have not thought about it and my lawyer did not mention it but is definitely a good suggestion that I will check tomorrow. Maybe it is possible.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Claire, you mentioned yor wife is concerned. About what?

Is she concerned on what could potentially happen to the OM?

Or concerned about the stress, anger, and emotional turmoil her infidelity has caused YOU?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

Whip Morgan said:


> Claire, you mentioned yor wife is concerned. About what?
> 
> Is she concerned on what could potentially happen to the OM?
> 
> Or concerned about the stress, anger, and emotional turmoil her infidelity has caused YOU?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She has expressed her concern that due to the stress, anger and all the roller coaster emotions I'm feeling not only because of the affair but also dealing with this BS from POS more the financial stress, I may no longer want to reconcile with her. She also expressed her concern that I may lose it and get into some sort of confrontation with POS and he may harm me or the kids.


----------



## clairebear

She also wanted me to go to the doctor to check how this may be affecting my health but there's alot of things I need right now one of them is not a doctor!!!!


----------



## Almostrecovered

Actually a doc is a good idea, no shame in getting antianxiety meds for a short period of time
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> I hear ya....
> 
> As stupid as it may be I just feel like showing him.... and after his mommy and daddy paying for the lawyer... I just want show them too!!!!
> 
> I know is irrational and won't accomplish anything if I do!!! I guess I just would like to make them feel some pain, any pain... a tiny fraction of the pain I have been going through...
> 
> I still just want beat the **** out of this POS human trash until there's nothing left!!! It would not change my situation but hell I would feel alot better.


I don't think it is irrational for someone to want those that are openly disrespecting them and attacking thier family to have a co-pay for their actions.

It sounds like your lawyer realizes that the returning of the ring must have conditions. For example you return the ring and the next day he offers it again to your wife. He then sues for its return and the cycle continues until she accepts his proposal. 

My only advice is that if and when this escalates to him breaking into your home that you do not just wound him and that the police find the evidence completely inside your home.


----------



## Chaparral

Gabriel said:


> How has this next suggestion not come up yet....
> 
> Can you give him the ring back on condition he agrees to never contact you, your brother, your SIL, or your wife ever again?
> 
> Is that enforceable somehow?


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


And if he doesn't tell them your going to hit it with a hammer before you send the diamond dust back to them.


:rofl::rofl::lol::rofl:


----------



## adv

I've followed your story/problem from the beginning and you have a level of self-control that I can only dream of. Stay strong and good luck. You deserve it. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

Almostrecovered said:


> Actually a doc is a good idea, no shame in getting antianxiety meds for a short period of time
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm just afraid of any medication cloud my judgement or keep me to calm.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Not unless you abuse them
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> I don't think it is irrational for someone to want those that are openly disrespecting them and attacking thier family to have a co-pay for their actions.
> 
> It sounds like your lawyer realizes that the returning of the ring must have conditions. For example you return the ring and the next day he offers it again to your wife. He then sues for its return and the cycle continues until she accepts his proposal.
> 
> My only advice is that if and when this escalates to him breaking into your home that you do not just wound him and that the police find the evidence completely inside your home.


Yes, the lawyer was very strong on the point that if I decide to give back the ring it can only be returned if documentation is done about it, which must include POS taking responsibility for leaving not only the ring but the rest of the stuff on the mailbox, without this no ring should be return.

Believe me if that scenario happens...I'm prepared for it...


----------



## clairebear

adv said:


> I've followed your story/problem from the beginning and you have a level of self-control that I can only dream of. Stay strong and good luck. You deserve it.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks man, this has been one of the worst things that ever has happened to me, a nightmare.


----------



## clairebear

Almostrecovered said:


> Not unless you abuse them
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I'm not sure I wouldn't, it would feel great sleep a couple of days non stop and hope when I would wake up all this **** would be over.


----------



## aug

clairebear said:


> Yes, the lawyer was very strong on the point that if I decide to give back the ring it can only be returned if documentation is done about it, which must include POS taking responsibility for leaving not only the ring but the rest of the stuff on the mailbox, without this no ring should be return.
> 
> Believe me if that scenario happens...I'm prepared for it...


And to pay for your legal costs to deal with the **** he dumped onto you.


----------



## clairebear

Well POSOM's lawyer faxed my lawyer what seems to be prove that his mother owns the ring (lawyer will confirm the authenticity of the documents) their lawyer also claims that my wife can confirm this not only because she saw it many times while they were dating but also because when changes were done to the ring and it was "resized" it was "resized" to my wife's finger!!!! POS and his parents really believe she would marry him!!!! I just feel like forcing wife to look to the ****ing ring or maybe I should demand she puts it on her finger!!!!! 

As far as give it back my lawyer advice me to do it if they agree with our conditions. I still just want to flush it down the toilet, tape it and send it to them!!!


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Well POSOM's lawyer faxed my lawyer what seems to be prove that his mother owns the ring (lawyer will confirm the authenticity of the documents) their lawyer also claims that my wife can confirm this not only because she saw it many times while they were dating but also because when changes were done to the ring and it was "resized" it was "resized" to my wife's finger!!!! POS and his parents really believe she would marry him!!!! I just feel like forcing wife to look to the ****ing ring or maybe I should demand she puts it on her finger!!!!!
> 
> As far as give it back my lawyer advice me to do it if they agree with our conditions. I still just want to flush it down the toilet, tape it and send it to them!!!


I would not have the wife put it on her finger. I would give the ring back with conditions.


----------



## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> I would not have the wife put it on her finger. I would give the ring back with conditions.


I'm so furious right now, I can't even think straight!!!


----------



## Jellybeans

Sorry you are upset. Try to calm down. Seriously. Go outside, get some fresh air or punch a pillow or scream loudly. 

Then "Woosa yourself." Breathe in, breathe out. 

Go for a run if you need to.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

Yup, go for a run...

run your foot about a yard deep into douche bag's a$$.

You'll feel like a million bucks.

lol.


----------



## Jellybeans

Hee hee.


----------



## clairebear

Thanks JB and Pit.

I'm trying to calm down, I know I won't make any good decisions on this state of mind, I have built up so much rage since this **** started that it's like is bigger than myself!

Ha if I could only put my foot and hands on POS and let my rage go wild...:rofl:

Still have MC today! The fun never ends...


----------



## Dadof3

something stinks in the state of Denmark. i've watched this thread and something still doesn't add up with POS. Even a whackjob should have given up by now.

does WW have anything to add to the stories of POS persistence? Not to say she isn't genuine about R, but has she told him everything yet? 

Open-ended questions might help here. She may have been on an escape plan before POS showed up after she got shut down. Is there any texts / emails that she hasn't shared yet (or better yet, deleted) that if he showed his parents / your SIL, BIL that would give them the ability to support his actions?

At this point its a he/she said affair. Its you two against many (toxic people indeed), but maybe there's more that she needs to share here to make more sense. 

I would think a cease and desist order would apply to even lawyerly communication, but oh well, stranger things have happened. It's just a feeling in my gut...


----------



## clairebear

I do have the texts from about a week and half before I confronted her and the call on VAR where she told him it was over.

The lawyer has spoke mostly for POS parents regarding the ring as they want some sort of deal to get it back.


----------



## Jellybeans

clairebear said:


> Ha if I could only put my foot and hands on POS and let my rage go wild...:rofl:
> 
> Still have MC today! The fun never ends...


Definitely state how you are feeling full of RAGE and want to kick POSOM's ass in MC. That is a place you need to be completely honest at (MC). It is never good to hide your feelings in there. Talk about how you're furious and you can't sleep well.


----------



## clairebear

Jellybeans said:


> Definitely state how you are feeling full of RAGE and want to kick POSOM's ass in MC. That is a place you need to be completely honest at (MC). It is never good to hide your feelings in there. Talk about how you're furious and you can't sleep well.


I'm going to, I'm not feeling to well in general and the stress this past few days has been overwhelming, wife is an emotional wreck as well. We haven't been able to eat much either. Wife has pushed me to go to the doctor and see how this is might be affecting my health, Almostrecovered also suggested it might help. I think I will set a doctors appointment and try to get some anti anxiety meds.


----------



## Dadof3

ask her in MC if there is anything else she needs to share, and that there will be no prejudice shown on items she still might be scared to show.

i realize that she maybe a wreck from your own emotional state, but something tells me her reaction shows that she is afraid of telling the "rest of the story". although all this stuff is bad, I would think she would be less of a mess if it were all on the table.


----------



## Jellybeans

How has your wife been an "emotional wreck lately?" I am curious.

OH and What Dadof3 said just made me think of something...

In MC today, explain your feelings but ALSO, in front of the counselor, tell your wife "I want you to tell me everything. I do not want you to leave anything out. It's part of me being able to rebuild trust with you. Tell me everything that happened with him: why, for how long, and anything you haven't before so that I know you are being honest and transparent with me. It's only fair to me. Now is the time to be honest and not withhold anything or omit anything."


----------



## Dadof3

Jellybeans said:


> How has your wife been an "emotional wreck lately?" I am curious.
> 
> OH and What Dadof3 said just made me think of something...
> 
> In MC today, explain your feelings but ALSO, in front of the counselor, tell your wife "I want you to tell me everything. I do not want you to leave anything out. It's part of me being able to rebuild trust with you. Tell me everything that happened with him: why, for how long, and anything you haven't before so that I know you are being honest and transparent with me. It's only fair to me. Now is the time to be honest and not withhold anything or omit anything."


JB says it better than I.

It may not be so important to know the "why" as the "what", "where", "who", "how long" at this point. She may have more difficulty with the "why" part.


----------



## Dadof3

my wife learned from her counselor that a "why" question can shut down a conversation. there are ways to figure out the why without the confrontation of "why".


----------



## Jellybeans

You could be right.

I know for me and my exH the WHY was extremely important. 

Either way, tell her to be totally honest because if not, it's going to set you back immensely. And after the recent events, it's the LEAST she could do.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Glad to hear you will see the doc, trust me it helps take the edge off
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

Dadof and JB thank you for your advice. 

I will use both your suggestions on MC today and see how she reacts. It has not been easy be around me this past few days, I admit this and it is possible I'm stressing her and just making things worse.

Lately she has been worse part I think is the fact she has been having alot of nightmares, not sleeping much and the little she sleeps she has nightmares, wakes up, screaming, sweating etc. We have kept a small light in the room at night cause other way she won't get herself to bed. She has also been very worried about me and how this is affecting me, feeling guilty, remorseful, is constant worried every time I leave the house will call me every 15 minutes just to check on me. She has been going to IC I would think it would help, I'm not sure.


----------



## clairebear

Almostrecovered said:


> Glad to hear you will see the doc, trust me it helps take the edge off
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope. I have been trying to make myself all strong but this crap is affecting me more than I ever thought.


----------



## Jellybeans

clairebear said:


> every time I leave the house will call me every 15 minutes just to check on me.


This is part of her guilty conscience.

Has she ever apologized to you?


----------



## Whip Morgan

I think I missed something big the last few pages, about the documentation for resizing this ring.

Was the family trying to imply that OM gave the ring to Clairebear's wife to resize it for her specifically before DDay?


----------



## clairebear

Jellybeans said:


> This is part of her guilty conscience.
> 
> Has she ever apologized to you?


Yes she has apologized many time but is like everyday she apologizes more and more, I don't want to come out as insensitive and I understand she may feel the need to express how sorry she is but most of the time I no longer know how to respond when she apologizes.


----------



## clairebear

Whip Morgan said:


> I think I missed something big the last few pages, about the documentation for resizing this ring.
> 
> Was the family trying to imply that OM gave the ring to Clairebear's wife to resize it for her specifically before DDay?


It was resized while they were dating and changes were made on the ring, there's also documentation of upgrading the diamond whatever that means and a will.


----------



## Dadof3

there's likely some more baggage there behind the apologies.


----------



## Jellybeans

_Yes she has apologized many time but is like everyday she apologizes more and more, I don't want to come out as insensitive and I understand she may feel the need to express how sorry she is but most of the time I no longer know how to respond when she apologizes. _

^ Tell her that. Just be aware that her apologizing profusely may be a part of her own way of healing/recovery. I apologized to my exH more than a thousand times and in many different ways: verbally, in a letter, email, voice messages, text messages, in person, over the phone, etc. 



Whip Morgan said:


> I think I missed something big the last few pages, about the documentation for resizing this ring.
> 
> Was the family trying to imply that OM gave the ring to Clairebear's wife to resize it for her specifically before DDay?


Yes.


----------



## clairebear

Jellybeans said:


> ^ Tell her that. Just be aware that her apologizing profusely may be a part of her own way of healing/recovery. I apologized to my exH more than a thousand times and in many different ways: verbally, in a letter, email, voice messages, text messages, in person, over the phone, etc.
> 
> I will try to keep this mind, I don't want to come out as insensitive os dismissive of her feelings just sometimes don't know how to react/what to say.


----------



## Jellybeans

I was just trying to give you another angle. Nonetheless, you NEED to be honest with her, so tell her how it makes you feel. And tell her to be HONEST in MC, that any lying or ommitting is going to set you back. Ask any questions you have that are unanswered still. Tell her she must absolutely bet ransparent or it's going to set your relationship back. She OWES you that.


----------



## krismimo

Well I’m about to play devil’s advocate some things you may or may not like to hear but I’m trying to be biased as possible trust me nothing she did was acceptable but in your case all the circumstances were… well circumstances… 

1.) Please correct me if I’m wrong but your wife did meet OM through your sister in law correct? And if so then there are two things that strike out to me, although she did exchange phone number s with him she got in contact with him BECAUSE of your SIL. There is a difference here even if it is a small one; again I’m not excusing what she did. 

2.) If I’m correct in this was an emotional affair it wasn’t physical, now we could debate all day long which is worse, but it could have been worse things were stopped before it could go that far but THEY did not sleep together which makes a huge difference.

3.) OM is a Fatal, ok here is my biggest point here, she had an emotional affair/And or Physical affair. As bad as everything that has happened is this guy is a fatal. How the situation came to be is her fault and her/ Your SIL, but his behavior IS NOT HER FAULT which I feel why she also feels awful. I’m sorry but no one Warrants a crazy person stalking them even if there was an affair that does not give HIM the right to keep coming after YOUR family especially when she decided to stay with you and work things out, I feel this dude was already off to begin with which is obvious. People don’t make other people crazy or do odd or weird things there are characteristics and traits that person had WITHIN THEMSELVES that manifested OVER TIME. (For example) Please really think about this yes it wrong for what she did, but neither you nor she deserves this much harassment which brings me to my next point.

4.) Remorse, you have repeated yourself over and over again how sorry she is and how bad she has felt. I think she is sorry you know her better than anyone else, and if anyone else says otherwise they need to lay off because this is your marriage you know her best. From what you told us she has bent over backwards (Which she should) to show you that she is not only sorry, but also transparent in everything without arguing with you and she has told the OM that it is over in front of Law enforcement and or other witness. As mad as you are, please keep in mind that I think your wife is doing the best she can to fight for her marriage, me and others like on TAM have never really had SO apologize not alone BE TRANSPARENT without arguing with the betrayed. She already has done more than most to save her marriage and that is something you really need to consider especially with the horror stories I’m sure you have read on here.


5.) Free Will- The one thing you have to figure out for you CLAIREBEAR and only time will tell after all the madness has died down is if YOU still truly want to reconcile with your wife (Which I also feel why she is a nervous wreck.) Or if you have forgiven her too quickly and you having doubts on whether or not you wish to continue with the marriage which no one would blame you. But the thing is Over time if you truly wish to forgive her through time, remember no one really twisted your arm to stay in the marriage and if you decide to stay you have to forgive her fully NOT forget but forgive and that may take awhile. I feel you’re back and forth because you have two different situations going on and you have to sort them out, you’re trying to figure out things with your wife, slowly repair the marriage, battle a crazy nut bag and his family, AND figure out how to deal with your brother and his wife. Like I said before and I will say it again. I’m not saying your wife was right for what she did but this thing did take a life on its own and only you and you alone know what you want to do and what makes you happy. Should you stay or should you go? Good Luck!


----------



## Initfortheduration

CB, the next time she apologizes, take her face in your hands and look her in the eyes. Tell her that any future apologies will be considered for her benefit. And that she can say it as long as she feels she needs to. But tell her as soon as she is ready, to set down the bag of guilt. And that her doing that would be far more beneficial to you, her and your marriage then any additional apologies. Then give her a big kiss, hug and tell her you love her.

P.S. Sounds like she has a case of PTSD. Sounds like she is completely fogless. Her guilt is making her physically ill.


----------



## krismimo

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## clairebear

Thank you Ladies, I appreciate your advice and perspective, I sure needed to read it.

I was told a few similar things on MC today. First of all the MC said that both wife and I should go to a doctor and seek some help for all the anxiety, not being able to sleep, not eating etc etc that we are both going through. I was also told off for not going to IC, I will not even post the excuses I used to not go, I take responsibility that I probably not doing all my work. I have been reading the books some of you suggested, wife and I filed the questionaries but like in the past I failed to keep up with the IC, wife set two appointments that I already missed, I will call myself first thing tomorrow morning and try to get the next appointment available. MC also suggested that taking into account the emotional wreck wife is she should go at least twice a week to IC at least for a few weeks.

MC also pointed out that although my rage and feelings are normal and I have the right to feel the way I do, I can only held wife accountable about the affair and not for the way POSOM is behaving. MC said that he is clearly mentally ill and suggested that is even possible this behavior is the result of a manic episode or the fact he may not be even on any medication at all for the bipolar disorder or any other issues he may suffer from. MC also thinks that I'm focusing to much in getting back at the other man and on revenge more than I am at working in healing my marriage. I had not thought about this not at least this way.

Wife expressed all her feelings of guilty, remorse, shame for making me go through this, wants my forgiveness. Feels guilty not just for the affair but because POS is acting the way he is, never thought he would do this and feels terrified that her actions may cause harm to me or our kids, says she can't live with herself, is afraid I will not be able to forgive her and work on our marriage and will decide for divorce, claims to be tormented by the nightmares and is terrified of what POS may do. 

MC also asked some questions about wife and POS dating times and his personality, I understand it's necessary but I had a very hard time with that. 

I think overall went well, there were some things I definitely needed to hear, I think at this point I'm having more trouble with myself than with my wife, MC said wife is truly remorseful, has done everything she can to make things better and has done more than many DS will ever do and that now is in my power to be open or not to work in moving forward in healing my marriage if thats what I truly want.

I'm trying to be more patient with my wife since we got home, last couple of days every time I saw her cry it just got on my nerves, it's like it triggers me or something, I'm just giving her time alone and let her cry if that's how she feels.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Sounds like you have a good counselor
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Whip Morgan

CB, the craziness is mind-blowing. Hang in there bud.

You made it clear how the wife is upset. But how does she feel about this "love of my life" nonsense ? Does she consider that feeling to be real, or is completely gone?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

Whip Morgan said:


> CB, the craziness is mind-blowing. Hang in there bud.
> 
> You made it clear how the wife is upset. But how does she feel about this "love of my life" nonsense ? Does she consider that feeling to be real, or is completely gone?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



At some point the MC pointed out that was wife who broke off her relationship with Mr. Wonderful while they were dating and that no matter how she feels about those years of dating, what was going on between them on the EA was a "fantasy", wife's reply was "I don't know what I was thinking". MC also pointed out that this "forever love" crap people in affairs are so willing to risk everything for is not real.


----------



## Gabriel

I agree that it sounds like you have a very good counselor.

Stick with the apppointments. I am troubled to read that you already missed a couple of them that your W set up. Why? Was it because of work? Because you not taking any time off of work, not taking your W out to dinner in years, etc, was part of the problem in your marriage. Don't let that slip back or you might have to go through all of this yet again.


----------



## clairebear

Gabriel said:


> I agree that it sounds like you have a very good counselor.
> 
> Stick with the apppointments. I am troubled to read that you already missed a couple of them that your W set up. Why? Was it because of work? Because you not taking any time off of work, not taking your W out to dinner in years, etc, was part of the problem in your marriage. Don't let that slip back or you might have to go through all of this yet again.


I took the time off of work and still have 12 days left. The excuses to not go to the two IC appointments were lame excuses based on the fact I was not feeling that well. I set a new appointment to next tuesday and will stick with it. I have always had issues in the past with the IC, I think I have a hard time facing my part of the blame for all this ****, I also have a hard time talking about myself, I'm not an emotional person and have trouble talking about feelings and emotions, I'm also not an affectionate person at all and this has been part of the problem that I'm sure played a roll in this crap.


----------



## krismimo

Man I should be a councelor! I was dead on thanks for listening clairebear like I said before it is ahrd but you have to seperate the two incidents between her actions and what he is doing. Don;t let her wife alone too much what she needs from you also is reassurence that your fighting for the marriage as well. You two when you ready need to talk things out how you feel and where you stand and work on this together.


----------



## Jellybeans

clairebear said:


> I also have a hard time talking about myself, I'm not an emotional person and have trouble talking about feelings and emotions, I'm also not an affectionate person at all and this has been part of the problem that I'm sure played a roll in this crap.


I have no doubt if you were not affectionate/emotional toward her, that prob emphasized those traits in the OM if he was affectionate/emotional toward her. I speak from experience.


----------



## Gabriel

And we all know the OM here is VERY emotional. Like a kid.


----------



## Jellybeans

He is crazy. I wouldn't compare him to a kid. I would compare him to The One Who Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

Not working with a full deck at all. It's scary to think CB's wife invited someone like that into their lives. He is not mentally sound and kinda reminds me of that psycho guy who followed the family on their vacation in "Cape Fear."


----------



## clairebear

Krismimo, It has been really hard, I know I have been focusing to much on the POSOM and his actions, probably more than I have in trying to heal my marriage. MC advised me that unless POSOM does violate the cease and desist (and then I immediately seek a RO) I should try not to focus on getting back a him (through the whole ring thing) that I should put all my time and effort on myself, wife and working in our marriage. The in laws will have the kids until monday morning and I hope to have a nice weekend with the wife, the MC called it "try to be good to each other" I will try to do just that. Some of you here and my brother in law still in the dating scene gave me some great ideas for dates, I will take wife out over the weekend and do something fun. I want her to know I do love her very much and want to work this out, I want to make the marriage better than ever was, I hope I will find the right way to express it.

JB and Gabriel you are right. MC asked many questions to wife about the time she and POSOM were dating and about his personality in general. He was extremely affectionate, very emotional kind of guy, likes to cuddle, hold hands, sleep hugged to each other etc etc, my wife is the same way and I always had a trouble with it, for most part I found it annoying and would just blow her off, for years there were no physical touch unless we were having sex, I recognize now this is/was a big problem. This last few weeks I have been more understanding about her need for touch but is hard it's not something I feel comfortable with or that I even know how to react to. Wife has also mention how we been making love instead of just have sex. It's a serious problem that I hope I will be able to make better.


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## COGypsy

You know, the more you talk about your relationship with your wife, the more it sounds to me like you went out and found a mother for your kids. It doesn't sound like you and she have any connection at all other than you support her and she raises your kids and keeps your house. You've said how great she is with your kids and how much she loves them, she's great with money and keeps the house nice....but I don't think you've ever said anything like she's beautiful or amazing and special or any of those things you'd say about someone you're in love with.

Your reactions seem a lot more like you're mad that someone would try to take what's yours than you might lose someone important to you. And if I felt like someone felt that way about me, I'd cry for any past romance too.

Hopefully your wife doesn't feel the way I see it. But if she does--you've got to seriously work on you and her instead of just going through the motions or this pattern is going to just keep going and going.....


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## clairebear

COGypsy said:


> You know, the more you talk about your relationship with your wife, the more it sounds to me like you went out and found a mother for your kids. It doesn't sound like you and she have any connection at all other than you support her and she raises your kids and keeps your house. You've said how great she is with your kids and how much she loves them, she's great with money and keeps the house nice....but I don't think you've ever said anything like she's beautiful or amazing and special or any of those things you'd say about someone you're in love with.
> 
> Your reactions seem a lot more like you're mad that someone would try to take what's yours than you might lose someone important to you. And if I felt like someone felt that way about me, I'd cry for any past romance too.
> 
> Hopefully your wife doesn't feel the way I see it. But if she does--you've got to seriously work on you and her instead of just going through the motions or this pattern is going to just keep going and going.....



Well I just mentioned a few of her qualities, she is indeed very beautiful, although she is on her mid 30's she looks years younger, she is an amazing pianist, a talented ballet dancer, danced for more than 20 years, cooks every single recipe from scratch, is very compassionate, caring and sensitive and the list goes on...have I always been able to tell her this or expressed it? Probably not. I'm not perfect and I'm working on it! 

Yes, of course I'm mad! There's a POS trying to destroy my family so yes I'm pissed of beyond words, I think it's a very normal reaction!

I hope she doesn't because I love her more than anything and do want to make this work, I do have my own issues maybe from the disaster than was my first marriage I don't know, I'm just committed to make it better and do the best I can.


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## clairebear

Ok guys just looking for some quick advice here, I just talked with BIL who told me he just saw POSOM downtown meaning he is still here. My question is should I call the police and report it? Can I do this? I mean can the police do something?


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## Entropy3000

It is not illegal for him to be in your town. Do you have an RO? Did not see that posted. Even with one it has proximity defined.

I think calling the police under these circumstances is pre-mature and makes you look like the aggressor.

Not sure how far downtown is from you. I am also assuming your wife is home with you.


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## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> It is not illegal for him to be in your town. Do you have an RO? Did not see that posted. Even with one it has proximity defined.
> 
> I think calling the police under these circumstances is pre-mature and makes you look like the aggressor.
> 
> Not sure how far downtown is from you. I am also assuming your wife is home with you.



I know you probably right, I'm just wondering if there's something I can do, just the fact he is still in town I wonder if is enough to say that he violated the cease and desist and use that to seek the emergency RO.

It's about 30/35 minutes. Yes wife is home with me.


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## lordmayhem

clairebear said:


> Ok guys just looking for some quick advice here, I just talked with BIL who told me he just saw POSOM downtown meaning he is still here. My question is should I call the police and report it? Can I do this? I mean can the police do something?


You already went thru this with your lawyer, did you not? You have no active RO/PO against him.


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## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> I know you probably right, I'm just wondering if there's something I can do, just the fact he is still in town I wonder if is enough to say that he violated the cease and desist and use that to seek the emergency RO.
> 
> It's about 30/35 minutes. Yes wife is home with me.


Even an RO is only going to talk about contacting you. So I doubt you can do anyhting about this, but since I am not a lawyer I will monitor other posts. 

My assumption is that he has moved to your town and will be there for a long while, even if an RO is granted.

This may seem overkill but you could install some small cameras around your home so that if you hear anything weird in the night you can check a monitor and see if he is outside. I know that seems creepy, but if it helps you relax then good. Plus if you record the activities then maybe you can use that as evidence that he is stalking. If you do not have a security system in your home you really should get one. That is a good idea for most families anyway. Some of those can include the camera stuff.


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## clairebear

lordmayhem said:


> You already went thru this with your lawyer, did you not? You have no active RO/PO against him.


You right I did. I just wonder if I somehow could use this as a violation of the cease and desist to apply to a RO. I know the fact he is on my town is not illegal I'm just to frustrated at this point and wish I could do something to get rid of this human trash.


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## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> Even an RO is only going to talk about contacting you. So I doubt you can do anyhting about this, but since I am not a lawyer I will monitor other posts.
> 
> My assumption is that he has moved to your town and will be there for a long while, even if an RO is granted.
> 
> This may seem overkill but you could install some small cameras around your home so that if you hear anything weird in the night you can check a monitor and see if he is outside. I know that seems creepy, but if it helps you relax then good. Plus if you record the activities then maybe you can use that as evidence that he is stalking. If you do not have a security system in your home you really should get one. That is a good idea for most families anyway. Some of those can include the camera stuff.



I just not sure how he will live here with no job plus as far as I know he has always lived his parents basement is hard to me believe or I'm just in denial that he will leave the basement and move out whether here or anywhere else.

We do have a very good security system with camera.


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## Entropy3000

If he is driven he will find a way. He may explode and go nuts trying to do it, but if he is determined he may find a job, a room mate and get a cheap apartment. If this is a stretch then time is on your side.


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## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> If he is driven he will find a way. He may explode and go nuts trying to do it, but if he is determined he may find a job, a room mate and get a cheap apartment. If this is a stretch then time is on your side.


I feel more and more tempted to solve this my way...


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## lordmayhem

IF you have the means to do so, you can hire a PI again for a couple of days to find out where he's staying, tail him for a couple of days and try to find out his intentions.


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## Entropy3000

lordmayhem said:


> IF you have the means to do so, you can hire a PI again for a couple of days to find out where he's staying, tail him for a couple of days and try to find out his intentions.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> I feel more and more tempted to solve this my way...


I suggest you hang in there and let him make the move. At some point he will get desparate and make a mistake. 

If that mistake is him breaking into your home then deal with that. 

If it is him coming up to you and your wife while you are out then you are on pretty safe ground to defend yourself and your loved ones.

Anything else I would not advise at this point. If he was a typical predator male then sure go confront him. But this guy is crazy.


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## morituri

clairebear said:


> I feel more and more tempted to solve this my way...


Careful with those thoughts for they may lead to actions which you may later regret. POSOM and his cohorts are not worth you losing your wife and family. Don't let your ego get the best of you.


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## clairebear

Thank you guys, I really appreciate your help and advice, I'm not thinking to clear, I need to control this urge to do something stupid, I just feel so frustrated and consumed by anger.

I will follow your advice and hire the PI for a few days to try to find out what POS is doing/where is he staying/his intentions...

I will keep my guard up, I not sure if I should tell wife about this or not, her emotional state has not been the best and I'm afraid if she knows this she will freak out and just not let me leave the house at all, as it is she already calls me every 15 minutes if I'm not here just to check on me.


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## Whip Morgan

clairebear said:


> He was extremely affectionate, very emotional kind of guy, likes to cuddle, hold hands, sleep hugged to each other etc etc, my wife is the same way and I always had a trouble with it, for most part I found it annoying and would just blow her off, for years there were no physical touch unless we were having sex, I recognize now this is/was a big problem.


In the midst of this craziness, your marital problems still exist. With reflection, you can see how some of your behaviors have led to a rocky relationship between the two of you - realistic needs that were being ignored.

Not an excuse for cheating - which she seems to grasp now, and hopefully to your benefit. Once things settle (hopefully soon!) yo have the opportunity to work on things.

My sister recently was told by her H he wanted a divorce - months of arguing and bitterness have culminated in it. The biggest problem: she improved herself, while he did not. She wanted him to change, tried to make him change, but failed. Because HE didn't want to try.

You have made a huge first step by recognizing where you didn't meet her needs (shi**y way to be reminded of it, though). you already stated you want to improve yourself to be a better husband -I hope you continue to build on that. In the meantime, hang in there with this craziness.

And please, unless this guy assaults you or breaks into your home, do not get violent! Its easy to say through a keyboard, but we all know its a different feeling when this guy is present..Stay strong CB!


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## Chaparral

Have you two been reading the "Love Busters" book? If so, do you think it has helped?

Any body else?


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## WhereAmI

PLEASE tell your wife he's still in town. First, you should both be coming from a place of complete honesty to build communication and repair your marriage. More importantly, your wife has expressed fear that OM may try to do something rash to get her attention. She needs to be on high alert to protect herself and her children. If something happened and she found out you knew OM was around, she may feel like you failed to protect her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf359

The POSOM might say to you or her, (IF I CAN NOT HAVE HER, NO ONE WILL). My friend who is female, said that her old nuts in the head boyfriend, said that above. She was not thinking that he was dangerous. She was wrong, he had mental problems, that him and his parents were hiding. She almost got hurt, in this scary mess. He was bipolar too. Watch out for the signs of that.


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## TRy

clairebear said:


> Ok guys just looking for some quick advice here, I just talked with BIL who told me he just saw POSOM downtown meaning he is still here. My question is should I call the police and report it? Can I do this? I mean can the police do something?


Your reaction to POS still being in town is just the reaction that POS wants. It is why he is still in town. He feels that he has you on the run looking for him over your shoulder. He is enjoying this feeling of power and will stay as long as he has it. You are giving him this power and you are doing it in front of your wife. Stop it right now. Do not hire a PI. Stop caring where he is.

Your wife made all the right decisions so far so it is time that you trust her. Tell her that he is in town and that you no longer care because she has started to earn your trust back and you know that she will no longer communicate with him. Discuss with her how she should act when he eventually confronts her face to face or over the phone (and eventually he will). Agree to the details and then live your life.

If you do this, POS will look like the nut case and you will look like the strong and confident Alpha male. Continue to communicate with her to work on your marriage and not talk so much about him. If you see him when you are with your wife, kiss her long and hard in front of him and look back at him and smile. She is your wife and not his. Time to start enjoying that fact. Let him know that he has no power and he will leave.


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## Entropy3000

wolf359 said:


> The POSOM might say to you or her, (IF I CAN NOT HAVE HER, NO ONE WILL). My friend who is female, said that her old nuts in the head boyfriend, said that above. She was not thinking that he was dangerous. She was wrong, he had mental problems, that him and his parents were hiding. She almost got hurt, in this scary mess. He was bipolar too. Watch out for the signs of that.


Yes. And the children are targets as well.


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## clairebear

Thank you everyone for your advice and perspective, I'm very grateful for all the advice I get here, it has made me reflect on my own faults and it has also saved me a few times of doing something really stupid that I would probably regret.

Whip Morgan, I recognize that my marriage has problems that although not an excuse for the affair did plant the seed that lead to it. I think part of the problem has been my constant desire to make more and more and more money, this has caused me to spend many hours at work that now when I look back on it I didn't need. We have a very comfortable life and in part thanks to wife who is very good with money, I do not recall in this almost 10 years a single time that she made a financial request or demand, she will always go for the cheapest of everything and there's no waste at my home, it has been material for many private jokes over the years! I think part of my obsession to make so much money comes from the fact that during my first marriage there were never enough money to my ex wife, shoes, clothes, make up, more shoes, handbags, girls nights out, you name it she was never satisfied with anything, always wanted more, at the time in school and with two jobs I couldn't make it, there were other issues but money was one of them. I was back then what you guys call here a doormat, I did everything for my ex who stepped on me in every single way you can possible imagine. 

After my divorce I made a point that I would never be treated that way ever again, I think I brought alot of that bitterness into this marriage. It is also possible is the reason why I have so many problems in expressing to my wife how much I love her, I do have alot of trouble expressing emotions and feelings, is something I just don't feel comfortable with. I really want to change and do the work, whatever it takes to make it better, this morning while wife making the breakfast something she has done for almost 10 years without failing a single day, is like something just clicked on my mind I had an epiphany! I thought of how all this years she has always put myself and our kids first, in every single occasion it has always been about my needs, the kids needs and what was best for us, my son has especial needs and wife has sacrificed more than I ever did so my son can be today where he is, doctors and specialists have told us over and over again how my son would never be where he is if was not for my wife dedication to him, how much she sacrificed of herself and the things she wanted for us and all this without ever been asked to do it or complaining, I have never been able to tell her any of this, I feel it but have never been able to express it or show it by simple things as being home at dinner time or buying her a birthday present instead of just giving her the money, I'm coming to realize I have been an ******* probably my whole marriage. I love her more than anything and I'm scared to death that maybe is to late to fix things and I won't be able to undue the damage and will end up losing her. I want to change I really do, I have not been a good husband, I want work on it but I'm terrified of not being able to do so. 

Chapparal, wife and I are reading "Love Busters" and "His needs Her Needs", I recommended it to everyone, great books, also to fill out the questionaries, they are huge eye openers.

WhereAmI, Wolf, Try and Entropy, I didn't told her anything last night, it was the first time in days that she was able to get some sleep despite the nightmares and I thought telling her would just aggravate her emotional state and keep us up all night. I did tell her this morning but in a calm way, I let her know that I'm not blaming her for his behavior and that I trust her in case POSOM will show up, she begged me to not get into any confrontation with POS and I promise I wouldn't. POS did say some of this things the day he was at my house, I have it on the VAR, he is clearly unstable and like the MC said is possible that besides bipolar he suffers from some other mental illness we are not aware of, I was also told recently that POS has been obsessed with my wife since she was 15, they started dating when she was 18 but I was told he was literally obsessed with her long before that. Wife and I had a very nice day together and I remained calm, I did not mention POS or anything related to him. I'm worried but I'm keeping that to myself, my biggest concern is him showing up here while wife and the kids are alone, she will not open the door but I'm afraid this POS human trash might be capable of anything.

I will try not to do anything stupid if POS shows up here, you all have given me strength and courage to keep my mind on the right track since all this **** started and I hope I will keep all of this in mind if a situation of confrontation comes up.


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## Dadof3

Maybe you need to get her trained to pack heat and be deadly accurate.


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## adv

If you can just remember that the POS OW does not matter to you as much as your wife and children, then I think you will be good.

If he confronts you, your wife, or your kids, think before you act but don't think too long because the OM sounds straight up crazy.

And take your wife and kids out to dinner, try to relax and have a good time; or at least do something different that gets you all out of the house.


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## morituri

It may not be part of your nature but being a good lover is not something any of us is born with and as with anything in life, it takes a willigness to do what is necessary to become one. Consider surprising your wife by givinging her lots of warm hugs, kisses, and a few 'I love you' throughout the day. The point is to make her feel that you value her beyond her role of wife and mother, that you value her as your lover, in and out of bed.


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## F-102

A couple of things that you can do with the ring:

Sell it and tell the POSOMs family that you donated the proceeds to a battered women's shelter,

OR...

Tell them that for legal reasons, you had the ring appraised, and that they got snowed-it's only worth $4.98!


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## F-102

And, about that POSOM's "lawyer"...

There was a TV special (I think Dateline) about Dalia Dipolito, the Boynton Beach newlywed who tried to hire someone to kill her H.

Before she hired the hitman (who turned out to be an undercover cop), a lawyer advised the H to sign over all of his assets to his W for legal purposes (ostensibly, so the govt. couldn't seize it).

Turns out, the "lawyer" was one of her ex-BFs/affair partner.

In other words, I'll bet anything that the POSOM's lawyer is a family friend (or member, or even one of your SIL's acquaintances) posing as one.


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## clairebear

Dadof, One of the things I took her to this weekend was shooting, she was not that bad, makes me wonder how it would be with a real target :rofl:

Adv, If it comes to it I hope I will be able to control myself unless I'm physical confronted, when it comes to this POS sadly I think be prepared for the worse may be the most likely scenario, I would think by now he would be gone, not sure what he's thinking he will accomplish at this point.

The in laws are dropping the kids tomorrow morning before they go to work and I will take them and the wife to lunch and then do something fun, it has been a while since the last time we did something the four of us together.

Morituri, I have been trying to do that this past couple of days, it's something new for me but I'm willing to work hard on it, to be honest the first few times was really difficult now is not as difficult I guess is some improvement. I have been more affectionate, touching her more, kissing, hugging, she did notice this change and I can see is having a positive effect in the way we emotional relate to each other, I can feel there's more connection. I will keep working on it.

F-102, Man you have no idea all the possible scenarios I already thought about this ring, I could write a book, my imagination has gone wild :lol:

Yea, the lawyer has worked for POSOM parents for years and is very good friends with POS father, he works basically as a business lawyer, very likely because he knows the family for so long he's buying all the BS they saying.

My lawyer on friday did faxed their lawyer the conditions under which I am willing to give POS mother the ring back, I will see which BS they gonna come back with.


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## IamSaved

clairebear said:


> After my divorce I made a point that I would never be treated that way ever again, I think I brought alot of that bitterness into this marriage. It is also possible is the reason why I have so many problems in expressing to my wife how much I love her, I do have alot of trouble expressing emotions and feelings, is something I just don't feel comfortable with. I really want to change and do the work, whatever it takes to make it better, this morning while wife making the breakfast something she has done for almost 10 years without failing a single day, is like something just clicked on my mind I had an epiphany! I thought of how all this years she has always put myself and our kids first, in every single occasion it has always been about my needs, the kids needs and what was best for us, my son has especial needs and wife has sacrificed more than I ever did so my son can be today where he is, doctors and specialists have told us over and over again how my son would never be where he is if was not for my wife dedication to him, how much she sacrificed of herself and the things she wanted for us and all this without ever been asked to do it or complaining, I have never been able to tell her any of this, I feel it but have never been able to express it or show it by simple things as being home at dinner time or buying her a birthday present instead of just giving her the money, I'm coming to realize I have been an ******* probably my whole marriage. I love her more than anything and I'm scared to death that maybe is to late to fix things and I won't be able to undue the damage and will end up losing her. I want to change I really do, I have not been a good husband, I want work on it but I'm terrified of not being able to do so.
> .....



You probably realize it, but what you've written above is expressing your feelings ("you're scared to death...of losing her" e.g.). You need to say this to your wife if you haven't already! You need to change the way you approach your marriage (as you've mentioned). It will never be the same and you should not want it to be the same. Just do it. 

My W of 13 years forgave my EA and let all of her walls down (again) just 4 days after D-day which was 6 months ago. She said it would do no good to harbor resentment, etc. Our marriage has never been better because I finally understood what loving her really means (after almost losing the most important person in my life).

Reading your story puts me on the edge of my seat, I feel like I'm watching a movie and can't wait for the happy ending:smthumbup:


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## clairebear

IamSaved said:


> You probably realize it, but what you've written above is expressing your feelings ("you're scared to death...of losing her" e.g.). You need to say this to your wife if you haven't already! You need to change the way you approach your marriage (as you've mentioned). It will never be the same and you should not want it to be the same. Just do it.
> 
> My W of 13 years forgave my EA and let all of her walls down (again) just 4 days after D-day which was 6 months ago. She said it would do no good to harbor resentment, etc. Our marriage has never been better because I finally understood what loving her really means (after almost losing the most important person in my life).
> 
> Reading your story puts me on the edge of my seat, I feel like I'm watching a movie and can't wait for the happy ending:smthumbup:



I guess is easier to write it than actually expressing it to her or letting her know how I feel, I think I'm afraid of looking weak and being taken advantage of. I'm really looking forward to start IC tomorrow, I hope it will help me to sort out all this issues. I'm sure my marriage cannot go back to what it was and I think that's a positive thing, I know if it goes back to what it was I may find myself in this situation again.

Today was a tough day, I lost my temper with her. I'm trusting but verifying so today while I was going through all the receipts of what has been spent there're 30 bucks missing, I went crazy, reading all the stories here of the DS hiding phones my first thought was she must have got some phone. I confronted her, she denied it and tried to show me how the receipts matched the bank records and well long story short she was right but I thought she was lying and lost it, lost it really bad, I apologized and she was understanding but can't help I feel awful, I know my reaction was not appropriate, if nothing else I hadn't solid prove and lost it. 

Congratulations on your R with your wife. I'm working on getting there, being able to forgive my wife completely is what I really want, I hope I can get there. Thank you for posting your story it gives me hope!!


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## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> I guess is easier to write it than actually expressing it to her or letting her know how I feel, I think I'm afraid of looking weak and being taken advantage of. I'm really looking forward to start IC tomorrow, I hope it will help me to sort out all this issues. I'm sure my marriage cannot go back to what it was and I think that's a positive thing, I know if it goes back to what it was I may find myself in this situation again.
> 
> Today was a tough day, I lost my temper with her. I'm trusting but verifying so today while I was going through all the receipts of what has been spent there're 30 bucks missing, I went crazy, reading all the stories here of the DS hiding phones my first thought was she must have got some phone. I confronted her, she denied it and tried to show me how the receipts matched the bank records and well long story short she was right but I thought she was lying and lost it, lost it really bad, I apologized and she was understanding but can't help I feel awful, I know my reaction was not appropriate, if nothing else I hadn't solid prove and lost it.
> 
> Congratulations on your R with your wife. I'm working on getting there, being able to forgive my wife completely is what I really want, I hope I can get there. Thank you for posting your story it gives me hope!!


I understand why you lost your temper. I think your wife has proved she is comitted to your marriage. I know it is easy for me to say, but try not to jump to conclusions so quickly. You know this already but from a distance I think that is important for your healing right now. You guys are now in this together. Good luck. We all have bad days.


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## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> I understand why you lost your temper. I think your wife has proved she is comitted to your marriage. I know it is easy for me to say, but try not to jump to conclusions so quickly. You know this already but from a distance I think that is important for your healing right now. You guys are now in this together. Good luck. We all have bad days.



Thanks man. I'm gonna try not to, if it happens again will be sure before open my mouth. It just got the best of me.

I'm also letting go of the ring. POS doesn't want to sign anything like my lawyer suggested as a condition to give the ring back, POSOM parents do want some sort of agreement anyways so our lawyers got something that sounds good to me. POSOM parents will sign a document that they received the ring back but where it is stated that I had it because POSOM left it on our mailbox, they will also pay the lawyer fees involved in what the ring is concerned. I will let it go, if they sue even if I win it will be to stressful and I don't think it will help my marriage recover. I will focus my energy in healing my marriage and try to move forward.


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## Almostrecovered

been there myself CB (having a bad moment of something not adding up and later finding out I was wrong) That panic takes over and ration gets tossed aside. Do know that the way your wife handled things is an extremely encouraging sign and will go miles towards your healing process.


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## clairebear

Almostrecovered said:


> been there myself CB (having a bad moment of something not adding up and later finding out I was wrong) That panic takes over and ration gets tossed aside. Do know that the way your wife handled things is an extremely encouraging sign and will go miles towards your healing process.



Almostrecovered, It was a roll coaster of thoughts, in less than a minute I came up in my mind with all possible scenarios, now when I look back I know I did not act rational but at the time as you say and well panic takes over, I hope this gets better with time. I apologized again this morning and wife was very understanding, suggested we try to come up with a way that it will make it easier for me to check the receipts, whatever may cause me less stress.

IC was huge eye opener today!!! Although it's not in anyway an excuse for her EA I do have some issues of my own that need to be worked out. IC thinks that I haven't recovered from all the crap that happened during my first marriage and that I was so committed to not be a "doormat" in my current marriage that I ended up just "stone walling" my wife, that I love her but have been incapable of "let her in". IC said that for almost 10 years I have been emotional punishing my wife for all the crap my first wife did to me. It was very tough to hear and I felt so devastated that for the first time in like 10/12 years I cried like I don't think I ever cried before!! IC does think that with hard work it can be worked out so I'm hoping it will!!! I will definitely keep up the work with IC and try to be the best man I can. Hopefully I'm still in time to save and heal my marriage.


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## Whip Morgan

CB, 

One thing that destroyed my sister's marriage (divorce talk happened recently) was the inability of both spouses to be honest (completely) about emotions and how they both failed to express themselves, eventually things erupted. 

Have you talked to your wife of how you're realizing these things, especially your breakthrough at IC? Its an idea that to me, sounds like a good idea in sharing with her right away, but I could be wrong. Has IC suggested more time before you speak to her about this?


----------



## joe kidd

CB I can understand the explosion. For a while there I was asking about every number that I didn't recognize on her phone. Asked about every minute that wasn't accounted for. These things are understandable, she knew I had to ask I just had to find a way to do it without being an angry ass.


----------



## morituri

mikl78apkle said:


> She needs to be told that if she wants to keep her family, she must cut this man out of her life. She is lost in the fantasy of who she thinks he is, not the reality that she cannot save him from himself. If she wants you, she has to write him a no contact letter. She has to be completely transparent with all of her communications and whereabouts to you. She has to show true remorse, and do everything she can to repair your marriage.


While your advice is good, you are so behind in the development of this story that it would be wise if you first try reading the entire thread before commenting.


----------



## clairebear

Whip Morgan, Thanks for sharing about your sister's marriage. It has for sure been my case as well, I have never really shared with my wife my feelings, She on the other hand is very emotional and sensitive, it's one of the reasons I fell in love with her in the first place and what makes her such a compassionate and caring person, through the years she tried to talk to me about how she feels or her emotions and I just couldn't handle it in general, I have a hard time with it, I would just ignore her or brush her off, this has lead that either of us is expressing our true feelings and be honest about our emotions.

Yes, the IC suggested that next time wife and I are home alone or on MC on thursday that I tell her word by word how I feel without fear or restrictions, just be brutally honest and tell her everything I have realized not just through the IC but in general about myself. That wife needs to help me heal but she cannot do that if she is not aware of how I feel or what's going on with me, IC also advised me to ask her for forgiveness, not that my failings in the marriage are as serious as her affair what they are not but that to start moving forward is important I do so and to show her that I am truly remorseful as well for my wrongs in the marriage, that the same way she owns the affair I own my mistakes as well. I will do this on MC this week. 

Joe Kidd, I hear you. IC told me the same thing, I have the right to check whatever I need but can't be a jerk about it, I will try not let the heat of the moment take the best of me again. Wife was very understanding about it and felt very bad it caused stress but still I shouldn't have lost my temper. One of the things we have to deal with all this crap is the checking, I'm trusting but not capable of not checking, I hope I will in the future but as of now I can't. 

Morituri, :iagree:


----------



## clairebear

Just to give you guys a quick update. POSOM showed up here at around 1:30 am, yelling and calling for my wife, repeatedly knocking on the door, cussing, totally out of control. We called the police but despite this I had a small confrontation with him cause he grabbed my wife's arm and pushed her!!!! He was searched and handcuffed but was not arrested, a police report was filed. The court house will open in a few hours and wife and I will go there file for a so called emergency RO, I will call my lawyer on our way there. Keep me in your thoughts and prayers and that finally this ****ing nightmare is over!!!!


----------



## lordmayhem

clairebear said:


> Just to give you guys a quick update. POSOM showed up here at around 1:30 am, yelling and calling for my wife, repeatedly knocking on the door, cussing, totally out of control. We called the police but despite this I had a small confrontation with him cause he grabbed my wife's arm and pushed her!!!! He was searched and handcuffed but was not arrested, a police report was filed. The court house will open in a few hours and wife and I will go there file for a so called emergency RO, I will call my lawyer on our way there. Keep me in your thoughts and prayers and that finally this ****ing nightmare is over!!!!


Finally some grounds for an RO. What you need to realize is that he WAS arrested, he just wasn't booked into jail. Most peole have the misconception that if a person wasn't booked into jail, that he wasn't arrested. If a police report was filed, that means a crime was committed, he was issued a criminal citation and released until his court date. Still, I don't know what kind of police you have, but in my neck of the woods, that would have been enough to book him into jail on at least four charges: trespassing, assault, disorderly conduct, and stalking.


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## Eli-Zor

> POSOM showed up here at around 1:30 am, yelling and calling for my wife, repeatedly knocking on the door, cussing, totally out of control. We called the police but despite this I had a small confrontation with him cause he grabbed my wife's arm and pushed her!!!!


Cool, let him lose control, if the RO does not stick this time , make sure you are ready for the next round.

Harassment is a good second charge to lay against him.


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## morituri

lordmayhem said:


> Still, I don't know what kind of police you have, but in my neck of the woods, that would have been enough to book him into jail on at least four charges: *trespassing, assault, disorderly conduct, and stalking*.


CB, LM brings up an excellent comment and it may be something that you should consider bringing up with your lawyer as to why the police didn't act more aggressively.


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## lordmayhem

morituri said:


> CB, LM brings up an excellent comment and it may be something that you should consider bringing up with your lawyer as to why the police didn't act more aggressively.


His PD may have different guidelines that determine under what conditions a suspect will be booked into jail. 

clairebear, did you get the police report number? If not, you can still call the police department to get the report number and a copy of the report, since police reports are public record. The police report will show what happened, and what he was arrested for. Now, he has a court date, and if he doesn't show, a warrant will be issued for his arrest (automatically booked into jail). 

Now, when you get the emergency RO, you can find out where he is. I know the police can hold him for a reasonable amount of time (up to an hour) so that the process server can get to him and serve him. I know, because I've had to do this with suspects who were dodging being served with an RO. Once he is served, the RO is officially in effect. If he violates it, then that's mandatory booking, no ifs and buts about it.


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## clairebear

Thanks Guys!

We got the emergency RO, there's one in my wife's name and other in my name, both of them mention that this applies to our kids and our pets as well. The emergency RO will last about 20 days when a court hearing is set, the RO will then be either dismissed or we will be granted a so called permanent RO that it can go from one year to two years. Our lawyer thinks we might have a chance of getting the 1 year one, if we lose we can appeal. POSOM will be served, if he doesn't show up on the court date a warrant for his arrest will be issued and very likely wife and I will get the permanent RO.

POSOM is staying at a very cheap hotel, my lawyer was indeed pissed off with the police report as he thought they could have done more but at the same time the fact there's a police report it's already great as in stalking cases you build up the case little by little so he thinks anything that happens is our gain. The police report states "domestic dispute" and what really pissed off my lawyer was the fact it mentions how cooperative POS was etc etc...POSOM put on his best show in front of the police officers but POS is bat **** crazy, ****ing nuts, he thought he was coming to pick my wife and our kids, the crap that came out o his mouth is beyond the pale!!!!


----------



## joe kidd

clairebear said:


> Thanks Guys!
> 
> We got the emergency RO, there's one in my wife's name and other in my name, both of them mention that this applies to our kids and our pets as well. The emergency RO will last about 20 days when a court hearing is set, the RO will then be either dismissed or we will be granted a so called permanent RO that it can go from one year to two years. Our lawyer thinks we might have a chance of getting the 1 year one, if we lose we can appeal. POSOM will be served, if he doesn't show up on the court date a warrant for his arrest will be issued and very likely wife and I will get the permanent RO.
> 
> POSOM is staying at a very cheap hotel, my lawyer was indeed pissed off with the police report as he thought they could have done more but at the same time the fact there's a police report it's already great as in stalking cases you build up the case little by little so he thinks anything that happens is our gain. The police report states "domestic dispute" and what really pissed off my lawyer was the fact it mentions how cooperative POS was etc etc...POSOM put on his best show in front of the police officers but POS is bat **** crazy, ****ing nuts, he thought he was coming to pick my wife and our kids, the crap that came out o his mouth is beyond the pale!!!!


You sir are a rock. I don't know how you kept from beating him when he touched your wife.


----------



## Almostrecovered

joe kidd said:


> You sir are a rock. I don't know how you kept from beating him when he touched your wife.


I was going to say the same thing


----------



## Dadof3

i'd like to know what is "domestic" about this confrontation. I thought that was reserved for household spats between family members.


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## Dadof3

i would have insisted that it was assault and battery at the minimum.


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## clairebear

JK and AR, I smacked him against the wall, the police was right there and pushed me aside, I wasn't going to go any further not that I didn't want to but the first thing it came to my mind is that I would probably end up the night in jail and POS could always come back.


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## clairebear

Dadof, my lawyer said that sadly the fact POSOM is known to us, the police did not took it as serious as if it was a stranger, plus I was incredible nervous at the time, after the fact I wish I had done this/that but at the time I couldn't think clearly, POS made it all about a love triangle where I was just keeping them "apart".


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## Initfortheduration

CB, Get a shotgun, fill one barrel with rock sold and buck shot in the other barrel. If he shows up again threatening give him the rock salt across the front of his legs. That will stop him. On the odd chance it doesn't give him the other barrel. 

First off, you do understand that the police will never be able to protect you from the posom. Its not their job (up held by the SCOTUS). They can only protect "society". That leaves the responsibility of protecting yourself to one person.....YOU. He has now assaulted your wife, and it is in the police record. So get yourself a gun and protect your wife and kids from this maniac. There ain't a court in the land that would convict you.


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## morituri

There is always the possibility that POSOM will come back. In his delusional mind, he may believe that since the police did not book him into jail in the last two encounters, he can make a repeat performance. Please consider getting a VAR (voice activated recorder) as well as motion activated video camera placed out of site outside your front door. As always, first consult with your attorney as to the legal ramifications of doing so and whether the evidence gathered from such devices can be used in court to finally 'put a stake through his heart' - legally speaking of course


----------



## clairebear

Initfortheduration said:


> CB, Get a shotgun, fill one barrel with rock sold and buck shot in the other barrel. If he shows up again threatening give him the rock salt across the front of his legs. That will stop him. On the odd chance it doesn't give him the other barrel.
> 
> First off, you do understand that the police will never be able to protect you from the posom. Its not their job (up held by the SCOTUS). They can only protect "society". That leaves the responsibility of protecting yourself to one person.....YOU. He has now assaulted your wife, and it is in the police record. So get yourself a gun and protect your wife and kids from this maniac. There ain't a court in the land that would convict you.




Infortheduration, you right, my lawyer suggested I keep myself on guard and to not be naive thinking that the RO is some sort of "it's done" as POSOM can violate the RO, he will very likely then be arrested but still POS can do it.

Lawyer also said that now with the RO if I want I can legally get a gun very easily, I'm considering it.


----------



## clairebear

morituri said:


> There is always the possibility that POSOM will come back. In his delusional mind, he may believe that since the police did not book him into jail in the last two encounters, he can make a repeat performance. Please consider getting a VAR (voice activated recorder) as well as motion activated video camera placed out of site outside your front door. As always, first consult with your attorney as to the legal ramifications of doing so and whether the evidence gathered from such devices can be used in court to finally 'put a stake through his heart' - legally speaking of course


Morituri, my lawyer mention this as well, is a concern. I do have both the VAR and a camera both place outside of my front door and in the inside, it has been there to keep an eye on my wife but I will ask my lawyer if it can be used in this situation as well. POSOM is so out of his mind that I almost feel pity for him!!!


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## joe kidd

The POSOM is nutzy. So let me take this in. He really thinks if he could just talk with her alone he can "break the spell" you have her under and ride off into the sunset? Cripes, your wife must REALLY know how much you love her now with you dealing with this sh*tstorm.


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## NotLikeYou

Clairebear, I second Morituri's points. If he is being psycho to you and being saintly to the police, having a VAR handy to record the conversation before the police show up will be helpful to your case. Honestly, the next time it happens, you would be better off not opening the door. Don't escalate the confrontation, record it for your own purposes. If you give your lawyer a tape recording (or a video recording, even better) where you state the time and date and tell the guy to leave, and he is spouting crazy stuff, it will definitely help you get a permanent restraining order.


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## clairebear

joe kidd said:


> The POSOM is nutzy. So let me take this in. He really thinks if he could just talk with her alone he can "break the spell" you have her under and ride off into the sunset? Cripes, your wife must REALLY know how much you love her now with you dealing with this sh*tstorm.



:iagree: 

POS told police wife wants go with him, went as far as say when he touched her felt she "wants to go". They "soul mates" "love each other since forever" POS "met her first" and the list of crazy **** doesn't stop. POS really thought wife and our kids were going to leave with him!!!! Pure insanity!!!!


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## clairebear

NotLikeYou said:


> Clairebear, I second Morituri's points. If he is being psycho to you and being saintly to the police, having a VAR handy to record the conversation before the police show up will be helpful to your case. Honestly, the next time it happens, you would be better off not opening the door. Don't escalate the confrontation, record it for your own purposes. If you give your lawyer a tape recording (or a video recording, even better) where you state the time and date and tell the guy to leave, and he is spouting crazy stuff, it will definitely help you get a permanent restraining order.


I will definitely look into this with my lawyer. We opened the door only when the police got here. POS looks to me as a master manipulator he was able to go from this crazy guy knocking on my door to the calm nice guy talking with the police.


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## Unsure in Seattle

On the tiniest lighter side-

-Your wife is never going to be able to have an argument with you ever again. "What? Mow the lawn? Remember POS?"

Ha ha. 

You've handled this all SO WELL. you should be proud of how you're taking all of this.

I trust the wife was properly mortified by all of this?


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## karole

I don't see how there could be any legal ramifications in setting up a video recorder or VAR in your own home. People use nannie-cam's all the time, this is no different. Use the recorders. Good luck man!


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## Jellybeans

This thread is so unbelievable. 

Didn't your wife tell him to F off when he came to your house at nearly 2 a.m. and pushed her? WTF? 

Now he's staying in a motel? Does he have a job? How is he funding his stalker trip that seems to have been going on for about a month now? I realize we are all laughing about how nutty this guy is but he sounds completely dangerous. I would be very careful. He seems like he is capable of anything. What a lunatic. He is the male version of Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.


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## clairebear

Unsure in Seattle said:


> On the tiniest lighter side-
> 
> -Your wife is never going to be able to have an argument with you ever again. "What? Mow the lawn? Remember POS?"
> 
> Ha ha.
> 
> You've handled this all SO WELL. you should be proud of how you're taking all of this.
> 
> I trust the wife was properly mortified by all of this?



Unsure, thanks for the good laugh :rofl: I sure could use one.

Thanks, the scenario keeps playing in my mind over and over again and every time I think there's something else I could have done different.

Yea she was/is, after the court (lawyer and wife had to be in the court room alone) lawyers told me the judge suggested I would call wife's IC and tell what's going on, wife is a emotional wreck since last night and in the court room wasn't any better, my lawyer said she was great in court through. IC told me to just keep an eye on her and if something doesn't look good just take her to the ER, to give her space and respect her feelings. Wife has an appointment on friday with IC and tomorrow we have MC.


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## F-102

Even if you get a permanent RO, do you really think that POSOM's going to obey it? You've seen how crazy he is, and you see that it will take bodily harm, or worse, to get the cops in your town off of their fat donut-eating asses and do something. RO's are only worth the paper they're printed on.


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## clairebear

karole said:


> I don't see how there could be any legal ramifications in setting up a video recorder or VAR in your own home. People use nannie-cam's all the time, this is no different. Use the recorders. Good luck man!


Thanks. I just need to check if legally can be used in court.


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## karole

It could be used as evidence for you if the POSOM should show up at your house again and you had to take drastic physical action against him......


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## clairebear

Jellybeans said:


> This thread is so unbelievable.
> 
> Didn't your wife tell him to F off when he came to your house at nearly 2 a.m. and pushed her? WTF?
> 
> Now he's staying in a motel? Does he have a job? How is he funding his stalker trip that seems to have been going on for about a month now? I realize we are all laughing about how nutty this guy is but he sounds completely dangerous. I would be very careful. He seems like he is capable of anything. What a lunatic. He is the male version of Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.


She did but POS answer was she is "confused". 

POS is staying at this cheap hotel. I don't think he has a job, he has either worked on online sales from his house or in minimum wage jobs so not sure how he could get a job here that easily with this economy. POS his a failed arts teacher couldn't hold the job was fired more than once. You right he is very dangerous what most scared me is how he goes from crazy to relax so fast. He is bat **** crazy, the crap he said I have a hard time thinking he believes it!!!


----------



## clairebear

F-102 said:


> Even if you get a permanent RO, do you really think that POSOM's going to obey it? You've seen how crazy he is, and you see that it will take bodily harm, or worse, to get the cops in your town off of their fat donut-eating asses and do something. RO's are only worth the paper they're printed on.


I hear you man...it does concern me, I'm going back to work in a week, even if I could take more time off I don't think that's the solution. My lawyer did pointed RO are violated all the time and I need to be careful not fell into a sense of security.


----------



## clairebear

karole said:


> It could be used as evidence for you if the POSOM should show up at your house again and you had to take drastic physical action against him......


Yes in this circumstances I think it can...


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

You have children, his "plan" included picking them up too. Dont think for a second that every man (even batsh*t crazy ones) doesn't know the way to a womens heart is through her children.

Dont f*ck around dude. I don't know what else you need to see from this crazy douch3bag. a gun and a concealed weapons permit should be on your grocery list tomorrow.

*edit* also... Tazers and Mace FTW!


----------



## morituri

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> You have children, his "plan" included picking them up too. Dont think for a second that every man (even batsh*t crazy ones) doesn't know the way to a womens heart is through her children.
> 
> Dont f*ck around dude. I don't know what else you need to see from this crazy douch3bag. a gun and a concealed weapons permit should be on your grocery list tomorrow.
> 
> *edit* also... Tazers and Mace FTW!



Aim the tazer at his nut$ and shock his b0ll$ till they frie and drop to the floor like two pieces of charcoal.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Wild, cathartic revenge fantasies aside, you should DEFINITELY find out what's okay and not okay in your area as far as using force (in your own home, of course). I'm stunned the cops didn't do more... but if he violates the new RO, he'll be in a world of trouble. 

Keep your eyes peeled. Keep the cameras running, just in case.


----------



## clairebear

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> You have children, his "plan" included picking them up too. Dont think for a second that every man (even batsh*t crazy ones) doesn't know the way to a womens heart is through her children.
> 
> Dont f*ck around dude. I don't know what else you need to see from this crazy douch3bag. a gun and a concealed weapons permit should be on your grocery list tomorrow.
> 
> *edit* also... Tazers and Mace FTW!



Yea man, this POS must realize that part of the reason why their "forever love" fantasy died was the fact he did not wanted the wife to ever see our kids again. In the last couple of weeks POS went from not wanting her to see the kids, to allowing her to see the kids to now wanting to take the kids!!!! This causes my brain to boil with so much anger and hate I feel like I losing my mind, just the thought of this POS could come any near my kids makes me want to beat the crap out of him so hard but so hard that after I would be done not a single bone in his body would be intact.

I had a gun for many years, when the kids got older the wife made me get rid of it (even that I always had it in a safe box) she didn't want it in the house. I do think I need/should get a new one. I'm considering just get it and not tell anything to the wife!!!

The tazers and mace for the wife I'm definitely getting it tomorrow.


----------



## clairebear

morituri said:


> Aim the tazer at his nut$ and shock his b0ll$ till they frie and drop to the floor like two pieces of charcoal.



At this point I would pay to do that...have never hated anyone this much!!!!!


----------



## Shaggy

Any ongoing noise from your brother and evil sister in law?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

Unsure in Seattle said:


> Wild, cathartic revenge fantasies aside, you should DEFINITELY find out what's okay and not okay in your area as far as using force (in your own home, of course). I'm stunned the cops didn't do more... but if he violates the new RO, he'll be in a world of trouble.
> 
> Keep your eyes peeled. Keep the cameras running, just in case.



I'm going to, as crazy as this may seem I want keep an eye on the wife as well. 

If POS violates according to the lawyer and the RO he will very likely be arrested, can be released on bound but is much serious then.


----------



## clairebear

Shaggy said:


> Any ongoing noise from your brother and evil sister in law?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, since they were served with mine and wife's NC letter and served me back, they have not contacted us.


----------



## F-102

POSOM has been in town HOW long? It doesn't sound like he's going anywhere, get your W some protection (guns, grenades, ANYTHING), because this POSOM may force her to leave with him, like threatening to kill you or the kids if she doesn't, and he may pull a gun on her to back up his threat.


----------



## F-102

Oh, and while you're at it, get in touch with the DA in your area, and tell them what a great job Andy and Barney Fife are doing in your town to "Serve and Protect".


----------



## clairebear

F-102 said:


> POSOM has been in town HOW long? It doesn't sound like he's going anywhere, get your W some protection (guns, grenades, ANYTHING), because this POSOM may force her to leave with him, like threatening to kill you or the kids if she doesn't, and he may pull a gun on her to back up his threat.


POS has been here for about three weeks, not sure how much longer can he stay, the hotel as cheap as it is costs money, not sure what is plan is. He is not using his car anymore, last night had a rental car that costs money as well, was a crappy car but still. Yea, I'm very afraid of that, if POSOM would do that I have no doubt wife would do thinking that she was protecting the kids. POSOM did threat to kill our dogs last night really shows which scum he is!!!! Wife just didn't open the door cause I put my foot down but was terrified he would do it.


----------



## clairebear

F-102 said:


> Oh, and while you're at it, get in touch with the DA in your area, and tell them what a great job Andy and Barney Fife are doing in your town to "Serve and Protect".



Yea, my lawyer has a court case tomorrow and said if he gets the chance he would mention it to the DA.


----------



## clairebear

F-102 said:


> Oh, and while you're at it, get in touch with the DA in your area, and tell them what a great job Andy and Barney Fife are doing in your town to "Serve and Protect".


On other note BIL did suggest that he and his fraternity buddies have a "talk" with POSOM. I'm honest it's tempting...


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Just to give you guys a quick update. POSOM showed up here at around 1:30 am, yelling and calling for my wife, repeatedly knocking on the door, cussing, totally out of control. We called the police but despite this I had a small confrontation with him cause he grabbed my wife's arm and pushed her!!!! He was searched and handcuffed but was not arrested, a police report was filed. The court house will open in a few hours and wife and I will go there file for a so called emergency RO, I will call my lawyer on our way there. Keep me in your thoughts and prayers and that finally this ****ing nightmare is over!!!!


I have no idea why he was not arrested especially whne he touched your wife. Again he is closer and closer to breaking into your home.


----------



## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> I have no idea why he was not arrested especially whne he touched your wife. Again he is closer and closer to breaking into your home.


After that he was searched and handcuffed but sadly not arrested.


----------



## tacoma

clairebear said:


> POS has been here for about three weeks, not sure how much longer can he stay, the hotel as cheap as it is costs money, not sure what is plan is. He is not using his car anymore, last night had a rental car that costs money as well, was a crappy car but still. Yea, I'm very afraid of that, if POSOM would do that I have no doubt wife would do thinking that she was protecting the kids. POSOM did threat to kill our dogs last night really shows which scum he is!!!! Wife just didn't open the door cause I put my foot down but was terrified he would do it.


He threatened to kill your animals?!!

Claire take the earlier advice and find out what you can legally physically do to this ****wad if he continues this ****.

Here in Florida we have a "Castle Law" which means to a certain extent I can kill your ass just for being in my house uninvited.

Wouldn`t it be nice to have an RO, numerous police reports and witnesses to/about his harassment AND a Castle law where you live?

It`s not every day you can physically assault a POS and be so well founded in a legal manner.

Edit:
Think about it.
next time he comes over, turn on your VAR, loudly announce that you want him to leave the premises and that he is not allowed in your house.
Do this while opening the door widely and stepping back so he can easily walk in.
Once he does go at his ass with the baseball bat you had behind the door and then call the cops.

Make sure your wife`s not in the house though or at least not in the room.

Yeah, yeah, I know I`m fantasizing but it would be nice.


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Thanks Guys!
> 
> We got the emergency RO, there's one in my wife's name and other in my name, both of them mention that this applies to our kids and our pets as well. The emergency RO will last about 20 days when a court hearing is set, the RO will then be either dismissed or we will be granted a so called permanent RO that it can go from one year to two years. Our lawyer thinks we might have a chance of getting the 1 year one, if we lose we can appeal. POSOM will be served, if he doesn't show up on the court date a warrant for his arrest will be issued and very likely wife and I will get the permanent RO.
> 
> POSOM is staying at a very cheap hotel, my lawyer was indeed pissed off with the police report as he thought they could have done more but at the same time the fact there's a police report it's already great as in stalking cases you build up the case little by little so he thinks anything that happens is our gain. The police report states "domestic dispute" and what really pissed off my lawyer was the fact it mentions how cooperative POS was etc etc...POSOM put on his best show in front of the police officers but POS is bat **** crazy, ****ing nuts, he thought he was coming to pick my wife and our kids, the crap that came out o his mouth is beyond the pale!!!!


This is not a domestic dispute. He is not a member of the family. This happened at 1:30 in the morning. He should have spent the night in jail at the least. 

He is lucky you did not shoot him.


----------



## Entropy3000

joe kidd said:


> You sir are a rock. I don't know how you kept from beating him when he touched your wife.


I would have gone over the edge and he would have for sure spent time in the hospital at the least and maybe more than that.

My state has a whole different attitude toward things happening after dusk on your property.


----------



## clairebear

tacoma said:


> He threatened to kill your animals?!!
> 
> Claire take the earlier advice and find out what you can legally physically do to this ****wad if he continues this ****.
> 
> Here in Florida we have a "Castle Law" which means to a certain extent I can kill your ass just for being in my house uninvited.
> 
> Wouldn`t it be nice to have an RO, numerous police reports and witnesses to/about his harassment AND a Castle law where you live?
> 
> It`s not every day you can physically assault a POS and be so well founded in a legal manner.
> 
> Edit:
> Think about it.
> next time he comes over, turn on your VAR, loudly announce that you want him to leave the premises and that he is not allowed in your house.
> Do this while opening the door widely and stepping back so he can easily walk in.
> Once he does go at his ass with the baseball bat you had behind the door and then call the cops.
> 
> Make sure your wife`s not in the house though or at least not in the room.
> 
> Yeah, yeah, I know I`m fantasizing but it would be nice.



Yea, it shows the real scum he is!!!

We don't have a "castle law" in my state, however both the lawyer and the police told me not by this words but in uncertain terms that with the RO if POS comes to my house and I feel "a threat" I can.....

I do like the fantasizing....:smthumbup:


----------



## Entropy3000

Initfortheduration said:


> CB, Get a shotgun, fill one barrel with rock sold and buck shot in the other barrel. If he shows up again threatening give him the rock salt across the front of his legs. That will stop him. On the odd chance it doesn't give him the other barrel.
> 
> First off, you do understand that the police will never be able to protect you from the posom. Its not their job (up held by the SCOTUS). They can only protect "society". That leaves the responsibility of protecting yourself to one person.....YOU. He has now assaulted your wife, and it is in the police record. So get yourself a gun and protect your wife and kids from this maniac. There ain't a court in the land that would convict you.


I understand the sentiment but once you pull a weapon you have to be able to use it.

I once had to put my .357 in a mans face in my front door. Trust me I had reason to do so. I told him calmly that if I ever saw him near my family again I would kill him. A passer by saw this. The police came. I told them what had happened and that if he came back I would shoot him and call them to pick me and him up. They got the message and delivered it to that man as well that I was very serious. I was well within my rights. We have never seen him again. It has been 20 years now. 

Now your crazy guy may not be impacted by this. BUT, with him there is no point in putting him in the hospital if you are locked up as he will go after your family while you are away. So, if you do act, make it permenant. I know that is a tad harsh for folks but if he breaks into your home you have every right to protect your family. He is a nut and should be considered dangerous.


----------



## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> I would have gone over the edge and he would have for sure spent time in the hospital at the least and maybe more than that.
> 
> My state has a whole different attitude toward things happening after dusk on your property.


Sadly the police didn't feel this way, the fact he brought up he knows "my family" "stayed with them" made it sound less serious than it is. Now with the RO I have more of grounds to defend myself than before and if he shows up legally I'm just protecting myself...


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> On other note BIL did suggest that he and his fraternity buddies have a "talk" with POSOM. I'm honest it's tempting...


Any "man" who would hurt a dog deserves a visit.


----------



## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> I understand the sentiment but once you pull a weapon you have to be able to use it.
> 
> I once had to put my .357 in a mans face in my front door. Trust me I had reason to do so. I told him calmly that if I ever saw him near my family again I would kill him. A passer by saw this. The police came. I told them what had happened and that if he came back I would shoot him and call them to pick me and him up. They got the message and delivered it to that man as well that I was very serious. I was well within my rights. We have never seen him again. It has been 20 years now.
> 
> Now your crazy guy may not be impacted by this. BUT, with him there is no point in putting him in the hospital if you are locked up as he will go after your family while you are away. So, if you do act, make it permenant. I know that is a tad harsh for folks but if he breaks into your home you have every right to protect your family. He is a nut and should be considered dangerous.


It's what I should have done to this POS!!!!

Yea, it was what stopped me last night, think that I would spend the night in jail and he would be free to come after my wife again.


----------



## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> Any "man" who word hurt a dog deserves a visit.


Is disgusting, it shows how crazy POS is at this point. Wife and I love dogs, wife loves animals in general, if I would let her our backward would be a zoo lol Our two dogs were rescued by her from a "kill shelter" years ago and she loves them to pieces. Now she is so terrified POS will harm them that doesn't want let them out of the house, for today it's fine I don't want aggravate her more but it's not a realistic option in the long term.


----------



## lordmayhem

The way I see things going as clairebear described, can either go one of two ways:


OM gets the hint because of the potential legal troubles, or:
Things begin to escalate because he's becoming more desperate.

Be on guard.


----------



## clairebear

lordmayhem said:


> The way I see things going as clairebear described, can either go one of two ways:
> 
> 
> OM gets the hint because of the potential legal troubles, or:
> Things begin to escalate because he's becoming more desperate.
> 
> Be on guard.


I hope it goes as the first option and I do hope to get that 1 or 2 years permanent RO.

I will, trying not get the stress take the best of me.


----------



## Entropy3000

lordmayhem said:


> The way I see things going as clairebear described, can either go one of two ways:
> 
> 
> OM gets the hint because of the potential legal troubles, or:
> Things begin to escalate because he's becoming more desperate.
> 
> Be on guard.


Exactly. He needs to know where his ultimate boundary is. The threat that has been made about leaving with the children is a very serious thing. Actually so is the threat on the animals is an indicator. 

One should not need an RO to purchase a weapon. Yes there may very well be a waiting period. I can't believe he does not have one in the house. He needs to assume the OM has a weapon if he breaks in.

I do agree that the wife would probably leave with the OM if she thought the children were at risk. I would not by her taking the children along though.


----------



## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> Exactly. He needs to know where his ultimate boundary is. The threat that has been made about leaving with the children is a very serious thing. Actually so is the threat on the animals is an indicator.
> 
> One should not need an RO to purchase a weapon. Yes there may very well be a waiting period. I can't believe he does not have one in the house. He needs to assume the OM has a weapon if he breaks in.
> 
> I do agree that the wife would probably leave with the OM if she thought the children were at risk. I would not by her taking the children along though.


It is what most concerns me, knowing my wife as I know I'm sure if that would happened, if she would feel the kids could be at risk she would leave with him just so he would not try to take the kids along, just the thought scares me, can't take it out of my mind. I'm gonna use the RO to get a gun and not tell my wife anything about it!


----------



## Blue Moon

Why is everyone treating the threat to the dogs as the last straw? I like dogs too but didn't the guy grab his wife and talk about running off with their kids? Holy sh*t.


----------



## always_hopefull

CB I have been following your thread and I am sorry you are in this position but amazed with how you have handled yourself. While I cannot offer you any better advice than that which you have already received, I was just curious if you could tell the POS that your wife has left you and is now living at your sil's house, tell him that she is confused over what she wants and went there to get away from you and think things over. Continue to assure him that they will vehemently deny she is there to protect her and allow her privacy. Send a little pos love their way....


----------



## Chaparral

Please take all precautions. Afraid when I click on this thread POSOM is going to have done something crazy. How in the world are you going to go to work leaving them alone. 

If he will come there and confront you, what will he do when your not there?

This whole story needs to be told directly to the DA. The Police are not getting the whole story, just various officers coming by seeing one small slice of what is going on.

I'm sure POSOM has a plan no one is going to like.

His parents need to know what he is doing, that you now consider him dangerous, ask them If they know whether or not he has any weapons and you WILL be defending your family.


----------



## lordmayhem

How and when was this RO served to the OM? Because it's not in effect until he's officially served. Did you follow my advice about that?


----------



## clairebear

Thanks Guys, I really appreciate your advice and concern.

My lawyer will be in court all morning today on another case and told me he would try to mention my case to the DA either before or after. 

My FIL will take time off work so next week when I have to go back to work he will stay here during the day until I come home, this until the court date after that depending how it goes we will have to come up with other options or not.

FIL also suggested that wife and I together with our lawyer make a conference call to POS parents and their lawyer and tell them what's going on, FIL doubts POSOM parents know what is really going on, that they only know POS version of the facts and should listen from my wife what is really going on. FIL told me that POS parents always liked my wife a lot and saw her as a second daughter, he thinks wife should talk to them. I will talk with my lawyer about this.

POS will be served within 24/48 hours, the latest tomorrow he will be served.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

I don't think you or she should have any communication with those people.


----------



## clairebear

Unsure in Seattle said:


> I don't think you or she should have any communication with those people.


Got a quick update from my lawyer POSOM was served, as far as telling his parents lawyer says there's nothing against it but doesn't think it will accomplish much. I not sure.


----------



## Entropy3000

Unsure in Seattle said:


> I don't think you or she should have any communication with those people.


I see no point to it. It is not about them. They will stick with their son no matter what. They could see it as harassment. Keep it simple.


----------



## Almostrecovered

yeah, it's not like they stopped him before


----------



## clairebear

Yea you guys are right, it hasn't stopped him until now.

I have a question, do I have the right to request that my wife does not associate with people I may consider a bad influence? I found out this morning one of our neighbor's wife has been having an EA/PA, they now separated but living in the same house while she is still on the affair, they have four kids under 13 years old. My wife is not particular close with this neighbor's wife at all but our daughters do attend ballet classes together and I know they talk, can I request that my wife does not engage in conversation/contact with her? or am I crossing the line?


----------



## Almostrecovered

clairebear said:


> Yea you guys are right, it hasn't stopped him until now.
> 
> I have a question, do I have the right to request that my wife does not associate with people I may consider a bad influence? I found out this morning one of our neighbor's wife has been having an EA/PA, they now separated but living in the same house while she is still on the affair, they have four kids under 13 years old. My wife is not particular close with this neighbor's wife at all but our daughters do attend ballet classes together and I know they talk, can I request that my wife does not engage in conversation/contact with her? or am I crossing the line?


just bring it up in conversation or MC, she may even agree with you


----------



## clairebear

Almostrecovered said:


> just bring it up in conversation or MC, she may even agree with you


Thanks man, I will, trying not to be controlling...


----------



## Shaggy

Forbidding her is not ok, however there is nothing wrong at all with expressing the opinion that this woman is going to have very biased views on cheating being ok, and that this isn't the kind of person that woudbr in anyway a friend to your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

clairebear said:


> Thanks man, I will, trying not to be controlling...


you cant control her anyways, you can only control yourself

so far she's shown the willingness to do the heavy lifting in such a sh!tfest of stress, give her some slack and let her know how you feel about this woman and see what she says.


----------



## COGypsy

clairebear said:


> My wife is not particular close with this neighbor's wife at all but our daughters do attend ballet classes together and I know they talk, can I request that my wife does not engage in conversation/contact with her? or am I crossing the line?


Are they friends outside of ballet class, or do they just chat while they wait and do the "dance mom" thing? If it's just that they're friendly because they're always in the same place, I think it creates more drama to have one mom freeze out another and suddenly quit speaking to her. Especially if they're just sitting around waiting for their kids to finish a dance class. Super awkward silence in that case.

If they aren't particularly close and their acquaintance is based on their kids, I doubt seriously that the neighbor's wife is much of an influence either way. Now if they started hanging around and doing lunch or whatever--that'd be different. 

Besides--when you really think about it, if we live around our neighbors long enough, we usually find out they're ALL a bad influence one way or another!  Or that the story goes that way, at least. Unless you're the one having an affair with this guy's wife--it's all gossip anyway no matter what the grapevine thinks they "know". I mean think about it...you're the guy with the crazy man on your lawn at all hours and the cops at your house all the time, right? What might people be saying about talking to you guys at dance class?

I think your energy is far better spent on keeping up the efforts on opening up to her and making the bond between the two of you stronger than it is clamping down on everything she might do or say or hear.


----------



## Entropy3000

COGypsy said:


> Are they friends outside of ballet class, or do they just chat while they wait and do the "dance mom" thing? If it's just that they're friendly because they're always in the same place, I think it creates more drama to have one mom freeze out another and suddenly quit speaking to her. Especially if they're just sitting around waiting for their kids to finish a dance class. Super awkward silence in that case.
> 
> If they aren't particularly close and their acquaintance is based on their kids, I doubt seriously that the neighbor's wife is much of an influence either way. Now if they started hanging around and doing lunch or whatever--that'd be different.
> 
> Besides--when you really think about it, if we live around our neighbors long enough, we usually find out they're ALL a bad influence one way or another!  Or that the story goes that way, at least. Unless you're the one having an affair with this guy's wife--it's all gossip anyway no matter what the grapevine thinks they "know". I mean think about it...you're the guy with the crazy man on your lawn at all hours and the cops at your house all the time, right? What might people be saying about talking to you guys at dance class?
> 
> I think your energy is far better spent on keeping up the efforts on opening up to her and making the bond between the two of you stronger than it is clamping down on everything she might do or say or hear.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## TRy

COGypsy said:


> If they aren't particularly close and their acquaintance is based on their kids, I doubt seriously that the neighbor's wife is much of an influence either way. Now if they started hanging around and doing lunch or whatever--that'd be different.


I agree with this.

As an FYI, my wife and I know a couple where my wife is friends with the wife, I am friends with the husband, and my daughter is friends with their daughter. Now that the husband has been caught having an affair, although I would talk to him at parties, out of respect for my wife's feeling, I would probably not see him one on one until things settle down.


----------



## lordmayhem

clairebear said:


> Got a quick update from my lawyer POSOM was served, as far as telling his parents lawyer says there's nothing against it but doesn't think it will accomplish much. I not sure.


How did they find him to serve him?


----------



## Chaparral

COGypsy said:


> Are they friends outside of ballet class, or do they just chat while they wait and do the "dance mom" thing? If it's just that they're friendly because they're always in the same place, I think it creates more drama to have one mom freeze out another and suddenly quit speaking to her. Especially if they're just sitting around waiting for their kids to finish a dance class. Super awkward silence in that case.
> 
> If they aren't particularly close and their acquaintance is based on their kids, I doubt seriously that the neighbor's wife is much of an influence either way. Now if they started hanging around and doing lunch or whatever--that'd be different.
> 
> Besides--when you really think about it, if we live around our neighbors long enough, we usually find out they're ALL a bad influence one way or another!  Or that the story goes that way, at least. Unless you're the one having an affair with this guy's wife--it's all gossip anyway no matter what the grapevine thinks they "know". I mean think about it...you're the guy with the crazy man on your lawn at all hours and the cops at your house all the time, right? What might people be saying about talking to you guys at dance class?
> 
> I think your energy is far better spent on keeping up the efforts on opening up to her and making the bond between the two of you stronger than it is clamping down on everything she might do or say or hear.


Totally but respectfully disagree. Adultery is evil, horrible and should have consequences. Think of the many victims from one affair. 

You don't have to be an a$$ about it but under no stretch would I be the least bit friendly with anyone who was cheating or helping cheaters hide their affair. Let them hang with other low lifes, there are plenty of them out there. 

This whole society is suffering because people are not being held accountable. Shocked at your attitude on this forum of all places.


----------



## clairebear

Thanks Shaggy, AR, Cogypsy, Entropy and Try for your advice and input. I'm needing to get my paranoia under control. MC told me off on it, I need to stop seeing a threat everywhere and get suspicious of every single move my wife makes or every single person she talks to.

I mentioned it to my wife and she said we don't know "if is true" "people talk and gossip" and that if is an issue she will just be polite to her but "not engage in conversation" Wife is not close with her basically they wait together like all the other moms for the daughters to be done with class, they have also been together at kids parties and stuff not much more than this.

Lordmayhem, when the police asked for his drivers license they also asked where he is staying so I got the hotel's name, when my lawyer filed the RO application you have to file before you see the judge both the hotel's address and his home address (parents home) was put on the form, his phone number also. I assume it must have been from there.


----------



## clairebear

chapparal said:


> Totally but respectively disagree. Adultery is evil, horrible and should have consequences. Think of the many victims from one affair.
> 
> You don't have to be an a$$ about it but under no stretch would I be the least bit friendly with anyone who was cheating or helping cheaters hide their affair. Let them hang with other low lifes, there are plenty of them out there.
> 
> This whole society is suffering because people are not being held accountable. Shocked at your attitude on this forum of all places.


Chapparal, thanks for replying, I just saw your post now. I'm trying not to be paranoid about it, MC told me off really hard on it today. 

I'm trying to trust my wife that it won't be an issue but of course it concerns if is true that is a very bad influence, also don't feel that comfortable letting my daughter go there if is true that this women is taking her OM to the house, it concerns me if is true.


----------



## Shaggy

chapparal said:


> Totally but respectively disagree. Adultery is evil, horrible and should have consequences. Think of the many victims from one affair.
> 
> You don't have to be an a$$ about it but under no stretch would I be the least bit friendly with anyone who was cheating or helping cheaters hide their affair. Let them hang with other low lifes, there are plenty of them out there.
> 
> This whole society is suffering because people are not being held accountable. Shocked at your attitude on this forum of all places.


I respectfully agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iballwrite

I feel your pain. Just your words feel crippling. As an actor in the play Divorce N' Us, I play the role of a husband whose wife challenges him with having fathered an outside child. I retaliate by reminding her that our daughter saw another man kissing her. 'Every time' we do this scene the whole audience seems to cringe. It seems too many people [many who will never admit it] relate personally to an outside force that has or is affecting their 'love'. Someone once told me: "If you're happy, stay. If you're not, leave. Too bad it's not just so easy...


----------



## Chaparral

Shaggy said:


> I respectfully agree.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Just caught that LOL . My typing skills are terrible. Even when I proof read it just makes things worse. Fairly certain I did not use to be this bad.


----------



## clairebear

iballwrite said:


> I feel your pain. Just your words feel crippling. As an actor in the play Divorce N' Us, I play the role of a husband whose wife challenges him with having fathered an outside child. I retaliate by reminding her that our daughter saw another man kissing her. 'Every time' we do this scene the whole audience seems to cringe. It seems too many people [many who will never admit it] relate personally to an outside force that has or is affecting their 'love'. Someone once told me: "If you're happy, stay. If you're not, leave. Too bad it's not just so easy...


I hear you man. The thought of ever having my kids around this POSOM or them seeing my wife and him together or any other child having to go through such thing drives me crazy, no child should have to go through this, no spouse no matter his/her failings should have to go through this ****.

My wife has showed herself truly remorseful over and over again, until now I have all reasons to believe that she is truly committed to me and our marriage but today on MC it came up the fact that wife and POSOM waited 3 years so they could date each other (wife was only 15 and POSOM was 22), I can't help but think if this is really done or if in a few years I will find myself again on this position, wife swears was a "terrible and horrible mistake that will not happen again" but I can't help but wonder...it was a tough day...


----------



## Shaggy

I can see your worry about the future, but POSOM has really done his very best to drive your wife away. This guy has been super beta, super freaky, super creepy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

clairebear said:


> it came up the fact that wife and POSOM waited 3 years so they could date each other (wife was only 15 and POSOM was 22), I can't help but think if this is really done or if in a few years I will find myself again on this position, wife swears was a "terrible and horrible mistake that will not happen again" but I can't help but wonder...it was a tough day...


CB keep in mind that before POSOM showed his true colors, your wife's initial perception of him was that of when she was a young girl and the fond memories she had of him. Now she has a much different and realistic perception of him and I doubt very much that she has any romantic illusions with regards to him. If there was ever a set of rules that OM followed, POSOM broke all of them with his sociopathic behavior. He f*cked up any chance he had of whisking your wife away from you.

CB, just like you I also have also been betrayed by an ex-wife (2nd wife) and it took plenty of counseling for me to open my heart and soul to another woman. Today I'm in a committed relationship with a woman whom I love, care very deeply, and hopefully will one day accept to become my future wife (I guess you could say I'm a stubborn old f*rt - I'm 53 years old). What I'm trying to say is that you can overcome all the pain and hurt from your first marriage and become the best lover your wife will ever know but it depends on you choosing to become a very loving, understanding and patient lover. I have no doubt sir that you can achieve this.


----------



## COGypsy

clairebear said:


> Chapparal, thanks for replying, I just saw your post now. I'm trying not to be paranoid about it, MC told me off really hard on it today.
> 
> I'm trying to trust my wife that it won't be an issue but of course it concerns if is true that is a very bad influence, also don't feel that comfortable letting my daughter go there if is true that this women is taking her OM to the house, it concerns me if is true.


There's a huge difference between forbidding conversation between two adults and screening where your kids hang out. Granted I've never thought much about where kids play, but I also feel that my husband and are both reasonably intelligent enough not to sway to any influential breeze that goes by. While I think it's horrifying that the 50+ year old guy bought himself a 20 year old mail-order bride from Russia, I do manage to say hello over the trash cans without worrying that I'm going to decide to suddenly sell myself off to a foreigner or that my husband will come home with some barely legal "nanny" for the cat. But what do I know? Maybe they fell madly in love at a friend's party and the age and language barriers are just a coincidence. I don't know, so in absence of any conviction, I stay civil. Would I let a kid play at the house of a guy that old who married someone that young? Maybe not, but the relationship between the two adults isn't mine to judge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## clairebear

Shaggy, one of the things that came up on MC today was that POSOM behavior is so over the top sick and toxic that even if wife was single he would not be dating material, that due to his mental state he is not dating material to anyone, wife strongly agreed with this and that although she still believes he would "not hurt her" she is very scared of him and does not want him any near us or the kids. 

Morituri, one of the things wife said today is that POSOM is no longer the same person she was in love with and that she has kept in her memory all this years, the fact he has not been able to respect a decision to commit to the marriage but even more shocking to her was the fact he was "willing to cut off a mother from her children's lives" "what kind of person would do that" MC also made sure wife understands that his mental state is not her responsibility, is not her job to fix him or help him, in the past wife made sure POSOM would go to doctors, take his medications and help him with his bipolar, MC let very clear that this cannot happen ever again. 

Morituri, thank you for sharing your experience and encouraging words. I regret I did not seek therapy right away after my divorce, was a huge mistake but back then I was young and I just wanted to move on but I guess I never really did, I was a mess for a few months and should have seek therapy instead I just built this wall around me and all this years later everything came back to haunt me. I will not delay the work I need to do on myself anymore, I'm committed to IC and will do whatever it takes to become the loving and caring lover my wife and I deserve me to be. I wish you all the best on your relationship I'm sure you will have the loving and fulfilling marriage you so much deserve, and at 53 you are not old at all :smthumbup:


----------



## clairebear

COGypsy said:


> There's a huge difference between forbidding conversation between two adults and screening where your kids hang out. Granted I've never thought much about where kids play, but I also feel that my husband and are both reasonably intelligent enough not to sway to any influential breeze that goes by. While I think it's horrifying that the 50+ year old guy bought himself a 20 year old mail-order bride from Russia, I do manage to say hello over the trash cans without worrying that I'm going to decide to suddenly sell myself off to a foreigner or that my husband will come home with some barely legal "nanny" for the cat. But what do I know? Maybe they fell madly in love at a friend's party and the age and language barriers are just a coincidence. I don't know, so in absence of any conviction, I stay civil. Would I let a kid play at the house of a guy that old who married someone that young? Maybe not, but the relationship between the two adults isn't mine to judge.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




COGypsy, I know I need to give more credit to my wife and her ability to make her own decisions, after all she did not got into this affair because someone told her to, as far as the kids go as my wife pointed out to me tonight if it comes up and is true that there is reasons for us to be concern there's other places where they can meet up to play. MC pointed out that people who make very bad choices are everywhere and although is ok I'm very concern and worried that this woman may be a bad influence on my wife taking into account our current situation we all ultimately have free will to make our own choices. I'm trying to feel less paranoid about it but of course it worries because of what I'm going through but again at the end of the day I need to trust my wife as the intelligent woman that she is and that she will do the right thing. Wife suggested that if our neighbor would mention something to her (what she probably won't they not close) but that if she does wife would try to advice her to "leave the affair and seek help for her family"


----------



## Jellybeans

Shaggy said:


> I can see your worry about the future, but POSOM has really done his very best to drive your wife away. This guy has been super beta, super freaky, super creepy.



ITA. If your wife is still into him after all the psychotic things he has done, then I'd be she is isn't emotionally stable or mentally well. No woman with a decent head on her shoulders would be attracted to that kind of crazy. He sounds very very nuts. 

I was watching Dr. Drew (Lifechangers) this week (well, the adverts for it) and there was a woman on there with a similar story. She was having an affair with her childhood sweetheart and blah blah blah. The husband confronted them both and at the end it said "what will they do now?" The question wasn't answered but it reminded me so much of this situation.


----------



## morituri

Jellybeans said:


> ITA. If your wife is still into him after all the psychotic things he has done, then I'd be she is isn't emotionally stable or mentally well. No woman with a decent head on her shoulders would be attracted to that kind of crazy. He sounds very very nuts.
> 
> I was watching Dr. Drew (Lifechangers) this week (well, the adverts for it) and there was a woman on there with a similar story. She was having an affair with her childhood sweetheart and blah blah blah. The husband confronted them both and at the end it said "what will they do now?" The question wasn't answered but it reminded me so much of this situation.


I know well enough not to doubt the wisdom of your comments young lady, but I don't think that is the case with CB's wife. Just like you and your OM, she had a crush on a childhood boyfriend but she has now come to see that he is not the man she envisioned from long ago. Still your words ring true;


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Hmmmm.

Your MC knows that you have every right to be upset/paranoid, don't they? 

I mean, don't be a **** about it, but given the circumstances that YOUR WIFE IS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR, I think you've every right in the world to be hurt, paranoid and upset. Your wife was into some psycho- and you have NO CLUE as to why... I think it's not unreasonable at all to want other potentially bad influences out of your life.

I'm sorry but I just feel kind of upset when a MC comes down on the aggrieved party. You've a right to your feelings.


----------



## morituri

Unsure in Seattle said:


> Hmmmm.
> 
> Your MC knows that you have every right to be upset/paranoid, don't they?
> 
> I mean, don't be a **** about it, but given the circumstances that YOUR WIFE IS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR, I think you've every right in the world to be hurt, paranoid and upset. Your wife was into some psycho- and you have NO CLUE as to why... I think it's not unreasonable at all to want other potentially bad influences out of your life.
> 
> I'm sorry but I just feel kind of upset when a MC comes down on the aggrieved party. You've a right to your feelings.


I didn't get that impression from CB's comment about MC but that doesn't invalidate your comment either. Nevertheless, there were marital issues that MAY have contributed to CB's wife falling prey to the sweet words of a sociopath. NOT an excuse for her EA but mind you a fact nonetheless.


----------



## TRy

Unsure in Seattle said:


> Hmmmm.
> 
> Your MC knows that you have every right to be upset/paranoid, don't they?
> 
> I mean, don't be a **** about it, but given the circumstances that YOUR WIFE IS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR, I think you've every right in the world to be hurt, paranoid and upset. Your wife was into some psycho- and you have NO CLUE as to why... I think it's not unreasonable at all to want other potentially bad influences out of your life.
> 
> I'm sorry but I just feel kind of upset when a MC comes down on the aggrieved party. You've a right to your feelings.


I so agree. I think the MC was wrong.


----------



## Jellybeans

morituri said:


> I don't think that is the case with CB's wife.


You don't think what is the case?


----------



## clairebear

MC has all been about how wife owns the affair and it's her responsibility alone what happened, that she is an adult and she can/will make her own decisions independent of others life experiences or not. That if for some reason she would restart the EA it would be about her and not my neighbor or someone else. I think I was told off more in the sense of my own peace of mind so I don't go crazy every time she talks to someone. For example as far as checking goes, phone, emails, etc, etc, MC was very strong that I do have the right to check as much as I want for as long as I want but without being a jerk.


----------



## Jellybeans

clairebear said:


> That if for some reason she would restart the EA it would be about her and not my neighbor or someone else.


Wait. Did your wife say "If I restart my EA it will be because xyz?"


----------



## clairebear

Jellybeans said:


> Wait. Did your wife say "If I restart my EA it will be because xyz?"


No, the MC said that "if she would restart the EA would be her responsibility and not over a bad influence"


----------



## Jellybeans

Oh I see. Cause I was gonna say.......


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> No, the MC said that "if she would restart the EA would be her responsibility and not over a bad influence"


And that is the right message. As part of your wife's boundaries she should avoid toxic friends / acquaintences.

In my opinion she should just keep this other person at an appropriate distance without befriending her per se. We have to deal with all sorts of people in life. I would suggest she not discuss marriage rrelated issue with that person. This only makes sense. This should be a very low key thing. Matter of fact. The reason it is a hot topic is because of all of the circumstances.


----------



## Jellybeans

What's up with the neighbor? I missed that part of the story. Is the neighbor bad news? And why?


----------



## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> And that is the right message. As part of your wife's boundaries she should avoid toxic friends / acquaintences.
> 
> In my opinion she should just keep this other person at an appropriate distance without befriending her per se. We have to deal with all sorts of people in life. I would suggest she not discuss marriage rrelated issue with that person. This only makes sense. This should be a very low key thing. Matter of fact. The reason it is a hot topic is because of all of the circumstances.



MC brought that point, that there's no circumstances why my wife special being such a private person would discuss this issue or any marriage issues with this person or anyone in general. My wife is also extremely ashamed and guilty about it so don't imagine she would.


----------



## clairebear

Jellybeans said:


> What's up with the neighbor? I missed that part of the story. Is the neighbor bad news? And why?


Well apparently and I will say apparently because it may not be true is having an affair but it may very well just be gossip.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

I guess I'm just sensitive to the issue as my own personal issues with an EA were absolutely exacerbated by my SO's best friend. Her friend was TOXIC in the extreme, and actively encouraged my SO in straying, providing cover stories and rewriting our history together. The toxic friend had a (supposedly) bad marriage and she was adamant that my relationship with my SO was equally as poor as whatever was going on in her life.

Misery loves company, don'cha know. 

And while your wife is an adult and makes her own decisions, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that she maybe doesn't have the strongest bounadaries in the world. Again, you don't want to be a controlling *******, but I think you've a right to suggest that she not interact (or at least limit her interactions) with potentially toxic people.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Based on what cb has told us, the MC has been excellent so far imo. I think they picked a good one.

The woman is an acquaintance at best and I doubt his wife and her will suddenly become best buds like Thelma and Louise roving around the country in a convertible finding Brad Pitt types to screw and then drive over a cliff. CB and his wife talked about it in a appropriate manner and they seem to be on the same page so there's little if anything to worry about here.


----------



## Jellybeans

How do you know neighbor chick is having an affair?


----------



## clairebear

Unsure in Seattle said:


> I guess I'm just sensitive to the issue as my own personal issues with an EA were absolutely exacerbated by my SO's best friend. Her friend was TOXIC in the extreme, and actively encouraged my SO in straying, providing cover stories and rewriting our history together. The toxic friend had a (supposedly) bad marriage and she was adamant that my relationship with my SO was equally as poor as whatever was going on in her life.
> 
> Misery loves company, don'cha know.
> 
> And while your wife is an adult and makes her own decisions, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that she maybe doesn't have the strongest bounadaries in the world. Again, you don't want to be a controlling *******, but I think you've a right to suggest that she not interact (or at least limit her interactions) with potentially toxic people.


I'm very sorry you had to go through such hell and find yourself in this situation as well. I hear you as my own brother and SIL acted in a similar manner providing POSOM access to my wife's contact and even let him stay at their house! I feel your pain.

My wife's attitude is that it bothers me so she will keep it cordial if approached by this person (they see each other at our daughter's ballet class) but will not engage her in conversation or be friendly towards her, they not close anyways as this person belongs to the "girls nights out" crowd of our neighborhood and always has looked down on my wife because she doesn't go with them.


----------



## Jellybeans

Almostrecovered said:


> I doubt his wife and her will suddenly become best buds like Thelma and Louise roving around the country in a convertible finding Brad Pitt types to screw and then drive over a cliff.


:rofl:


----------



## Almostrecovered

Jellybeans said:


> How do you know neighbor chick is having an affair?



he doesnt, it's gossip

which makes it likely but not certain


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

clairebear said:


> I'm very sorry you had to go through such hell and find yourself in this situation as well. I hear you as my own brother and SIL acted in a similar manner providing POSOM access to my wife's contact and even let him stay at their house! I feel your pain.
> 
> My wife's attitude is that it bothers me so she will keep it cordial if approached by this person (they see each other at our daughter's ballet class) but will not engage her in conversation or be friendly towards her, they not close anyways as this person belongs to the "girls nights out" crowd of our neighborhood and always has looked down on my wife because she doesn't go with them.


Brother, I appreciate the sympathy, but my problems are nothing compared to yours- I don't have some nutbag John Cusak-wannabe showing up in front of my door Say Anything style or dropping off love notes (and lavish, moronic gifts) or being a psycho! I mean, I have a woman who is weak when it comes to communication and boundaries... It's a sucky club most of us belong to, but it helps (a little) knowing that other's have suffered thru the same or similar things...

Just as long as you're not being ganged up on in MC. And your wife is contrite and owning up to all of this... I was just kind of reacting to the idea that you were "beat up" in MC over something that I think is a semi-reasonable concern.


----------



## clairebear

Unsure in Seattle said:


> Brother, I appreciate the sympathy, but my problems are nothing compared to yours- I don't have some nutbag John Cusak-wannabe showing up in front of my door Say Anything style or dropping off love notes (and lavish, moronic gifts) or being a psycho! I mean, I have a woman who is weak when it comes to communication and boundaries... It's a sucky club most of us belong to, but it helps (a little) knowing that other's have suffered thru the same or similar things...
> 
> Just as long as you're not being ganged up on in MC. And your wife is contrite and owning up to all of this... I was just kind of reacting to the idea that you were "beat up" in MC over something that I think is a semi-reasonable concern.


I understand, if wasn't for the good people on this forum and their advice and support I think I would have lost my sanity long ago. It's knowing that there's others who have gone to similar situations as mine and that I'm not alone that as kept me going.

Wife has been very remorseful, guilty and apologetic through it all, she has not accused me of being even remotely responsible for her affair, she has owned it since the moment I confronted her. We having a hard time with her emotional state as she is not capable of forgiving herself for the EA, can't overcome the feelings of guilty and pain she has caused me, I'm trying to help her the best I can but is possible only time will make it better. For now and as advised by the MC she will keep doing IC twice a week and has a doctor's appointment next week so hopefully she can get something to help her sleep, she is either constantly up checking the kids or the little she sleeps being waken by nightmares. I understand if I read about a BS being "beat up" or anything similar it causes me the same type of reaction.


----------



## Chaparral

clairebear said:


> I'm very sorry you had to go through such hell and find yourself in this situation as well. I hear you as my own brother and SIL acted in a similar manner providing POSOM access to my wife's contact and even let him stay at their house! I feel your pain.
> 
> My wife's attitude is that it bothers me so she will keep it cordial if approached by this person (they see each other at our daughter's ballet class) but will not engage her in conversation or be friendly towards her, they not close anyways as this person belongs to the "girls nights out" crowd of our neighborhood and always has looked down on my wife because she doesn't go with them.




GNO strikes again and again and again...................


sorry, is common sense not politically correct?


----------



## lordmayhem

chapparal said:


> GNO strikes again and again and again...................
> 
> 
> sorry, is common sense not politically correct?


Not anymore. Now common sense is viewed as being controlling, jealous, and insecure.


----------



## clairebear

lordmayhem said:


> Not anymore. Now common sense is viewed as being controlling, jealous, and insecure.



Yup, years ago when we first moved into the neighborhood this person and a few of the other ladies of the "girls nights out" invited my wife to come along and be part of their "group" when my wife declined that's how they described me to her "a control freak", my wife told them "no he is not like that" "I don't want to go" their reaction was "your poor thing he really has you under control" yup I brainwash her :rofl:


----------



## lordmayhem

Yeah, the woman who do those things always play the "controlling" card. That's their free kitchen pass. Many men nowadays are just so afraid of being labled as controlling. When my fWW didnt want to go out on GNOs to clubs with other females, I imagine they said the same thing. Me? I could care less what they think, I'm alpha anyway.


----------



## clairebear

lordmayhem said:


> Yeah, the woman who do those things always play the "controlling" card. That's their free kitchen pass. Many men nowadays are just so afraid of being labled as controlling. When my fWW didnt want to go out on GNOs to clubs with other females, I imagine they said the same thing. Me? I could care less what they think, I'm alpha anyway.



I hear you. I don't care either. I got a few jokes over the years like I have wife on a "curfew" and stuff like that but I don't care.


----------



## joe kidd

clairebear said:


> I hear you. I don't care either. I got a few jokes over the years like I have wife on a "curfew" and stuff like that but I don't care.


There is give and take. I don't stay out all night... she shouldn't either. I'm very happy with my R right now but I'm not going to lay down and be a fool again. CB I'm so glad to hear that she is committed to making this right.


----------



## Entropy3000

GNOs don't kill marriages. Disrespectful spouses with no boundaries kill marriages. GNOs can be one of the many weapons to do so.


----------



## Entropy3000

update?


----------



## tacoma

Entropy3000 said:


> update?


Yeah, what`s going on CB?


----------



## scione

He's probably happy now and forgot about us.


----------



## Jellybeans

They always forget about the little people. ::sniffles:: 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

I get nervous when this thread is bumped


----------



## clairebear

Hey Everyone,

Joe Kidd, Congratulations on your R, I wish you and your wife the best.

Entropy, Tacoma, Scione, JB and AR, thanks for checking on me, it means a lot, I haven't forgot you! 

Things are going well. Wife and I are keeping up with the IC and MC, have another MC appointment today. Wife is still going through the guilt feelings for all the pain she has caused me, she has been having a hard time but like my IC told me that's something she needs to keep working on and on her own time. The in laws took the kids over the weekend so we could have alone time and brother in law has helped with babysitting so we can have date night. I went back to work yesterday morning, wife was very emotional and didn't want me to go, she got use to have me around, FIL took off three weeks and is staying over during the day while I work, wife was terrified of staying home alone with the kids so was the best option we could come up with at least for now. I'm making a point to get home around 5:30 pm no more extra hours, before I was getting home around 10:30 pm by then the kids were asleep and wife tired of waiting for me to have dinner, no more of that. 

As far as the POSOM goes his lawyer filled a petition with the court requesting more time to prepare his defense on the RO hearing, the petition was granted and we have now a court date in a little over than a month, the RO was extended until the new court date, my lawyer says this is just POSOM basically wanting to fight the RO and using the system to keep this going as long as he can, nothing new the lawyer says when it comes to cases like this. My lawyer thinks we may have some chances of getting the permanent RO that in cases like this can go both ways. I also found out that POSOM is staying with my brother and my SIL, not much I can say about such betrayal other than any chances I could ever reconcile with my brother are done for good, I may one day forgive him but don't want anything do to with him ever.

Thanks for checking on me, I will check back on you later today or at some point tomorrow, thank you for all your help and going with me through all this!


----------



## Jellybeans

Omg I want to slap ur bro and SIL. What nerve!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> I get nervous when this thread is bumped


Worries me when I see a new post and it worries me when CB doesn't post. Glad everything is all right, was really worried last night. 

Boy, BIL and SIL are pieces of work, that's shocking.


----------



## Almostrecovered

cb- are your parents still alive? (forgive me if its been asked and answered)


----------



## Entropy3000

Married Man Sex Life: The Three Day Rule For Guests

Your brother is messing up in many ways. You may or may not buy into the three day rule that Athol mentions but he makes some good points with it.

Essentially your brother at the urging of his wife has another man living in their home. A stranger with mental issues. Let the comforting begin. Before this is all over the OM may be stalking your brother or even worse ( or better ) your brother may end up stalking his ex wife and this OM.

It of course has been crazy stuff all the way, but why in the world would your brother do this?


----------



## aug

clairebear said:


> I also found out that POSOM is staying with my brother and my SIL...



You (or another relative) should go over and visit your brother and ask his wife, your SIL, to take good care of the OM -- you know, his emotional and, maybe, his physical needs. The OM is in a fragile state and needs comforting.

Oh maybe she'll do it without being asked.


----------



## morituri

I truly hope that POSOM does end up switching his attention away from your wife and on to your SIL and she in turn runs off with him. You can then tell your brother 'why fight it bro, you can't stand in the way of true love'. I'm evil


----------



## clairebear

Thanks everyone.

Yea my brother and my SIL do need some slapping, to be honest I'm not that surprise they letting POSOM stay with them, stupid me thought that at some point in the future I could reconcile with my brother, not anymore, to be honest I'm so detached from him after all this he means nothing to me at this point.

Why he would do this? I cannot come up with a good answer, I could say this is all SIL but then I feel I'm making excuses about my brother's behavior so I not sure.

SIL has also been spreading lies to my relatives but I don't give a **** about it, not gonna get into her drama plus pretty much everyone in my family knows how she is so I don't care. The way she behaves about POSOM is like she wants to be his mother, sick. SIL biggest complain is that POSOM is sick and drinking again and needs my wife to help him get sober again between other ridiculous statements of soul mates, true love and sunsets. 

My parents are still alive, they got divorced when both my brother and I were already adults, they are not that involved in our lives, my wife through the years has tried to have them involved in the kids lives, calls over the holidays, birthdays, at least once a week to try to check on them, sends them pictures and updates from the kids but my parents are very selfish people and we usually don't get much feedback from them.

awww I would love be able to him that line :rofl::rofl:


----------



## IamSaved

Hey CB;

I'm so glad things are going well with you and your wife. I read each post on the edge of my seat, and I can't wait for the next installment! I think this story could be a feature movie on Lifetime!


----------



## SadSamIAm

Your SIL must think a lot of this POSOM. Your brother should be worried that maybe your SIL and this POSOM might hook up. Would be great if someone could get this thought into your brother's head. Anything to get his POSOM out of your town.


----------



## morituri

SadSamIAm said:


> Your SIL must think a lot of this POSOM. Your brother should be worried that maybe your SIL and this POSOM might hook up. Would be great if someone could get this thought into your brother's head. Anything to get his POSOM out of your town.


There is a strong possibility that this might happen and if it did, it would serve CB's brother right.


----------



## lordmayhem

clairebear said:


> As far as the POSOM goes his lawyer filled a petition with the court requesting more time to prepare his defense on the RO hearing, the petition was granted and we have now a court date in a little over than a month, the RO was extended until the new court date, my lawyer says this is just POSOM basically wanting to fight the RO and using the system to keep this going as long as he can, nothing new the lawyer says when it comes to cases like this. My lawyer thinks we may have some chances of getting the permanent RO that in cases like this can go both ways.


It can go both ways? What the hell kind of state do you live in? You MAY have a chance? Seriously? So this guy's jobless and his parents are bankrolling his lawyer? This should be a slam dunk with all the evidence you have...unless you're leaving some things out.

And I didn't know that there was such a thing as a permanent RO. Usually those things are good for a year or two, depending on your state.


----------



## lordmayhem

morituri said:


> There is a strong possibility that this might happen and if it did, it would serve CB's brother right.


The brother appears to be so whipped, I don't think it would matter.


----------



## Dadof3

highly recommend that the RO be extended to the bro and sis-in-law.


----------



## clairebear

The fact POSOM is staying with my brother and SIL may matter in court more the fact he technically lives eight hours away, his lawyer can claim that he is really not dangerous (staying with my family) and that he lives eight hours away so not really a threat, there's other technicalities and loopholes they can use. It's called a permanent RO because it can go from one year, two years or in extreme cases seven years and can only be removed by court order not like the one I have now that will expire. 

If my brother and SIL contact me violating the no contact letter I will be able to then ask for a RO as well, my lawyer said that sadly just the fact POS is staying there is not enough other way I would go for it.

Yea if both of them would just get together and leave that would be for the best but even to POSOM SIL is just more than he can take :rofl: must give him credit for being under the same roof as her and worse eating her food :rofl:


----------



## morituri

Just like we tell others that the woman we once knew and love is gone, so is the brother you knew and love.

Let us not forget brothers and sisters - church organ plays in the background - that if SIL and POSOM discover they are each other's true soul mate, then let no man torn asunder.

Can I get an amen brothers and sisters?


----------



## clairebear

morituri said:


> Just like we tell others that the woman we once knew and love is gone, so is the brother you knew and love.
> 
> Let us not forget brothers and sisters - church organ plays in the background - that if SIL and POSOM discover they are each other's true soul mate, then let no man torn asunder.
> 
> Can I get an amen brothers and sisters?


You right, I know it might be difficult to be believe and it is even to myself but my brother used to be a great guy, we used to be best friends and were always there for each other, he had values and things he used to stand for, then he married SIL and through the years is like slowly what he was just started to fade away, I don't recognize him anymore.

HILARIOUS, love your sense of humor :iagree::iagree:

I could so much use a good laugh :rofl::rofl::rofl::lol::lol:


----------



## lordmayhem

clairebear said:


> The fact POSOM is staying with my brother and SIL may matter in court more the fact he technically lives eight hours away, his lawyer can claim that he is really not dangerous (staying with my family) and that he lives eight hours away so not really a threat, there's other technicalities and loopholes they can use. It's called a permanent RO because it can go from one year, two years or in extreme cases seven years and can only be removed by court order not like the one I have now that will expire.
> 
> If my brother and SIL contact me violating the no contact letter I will be able to then ask for a RO as well, my lawyer said that sadly just the fact POS is staying there is not enough other way I would go for it.


Now this doesn't make sense. First you said there's legal loopholes that OM can use to show he's not a threat, which says in your state someone actually has to be proven a threat to get an RO. Then you say you can get an RO on your brother and SIL if they violate your NC letter. Are they considered a physical threat as well?

Also, your state must not have laws against stalking, huh?


----------



## morituri

clairebear said:


> HILARIOUS, love your sense of humor :iagree::iagree:
> 
> I could so much use a good laugh :rofl::rofl::rofl::lol::lol:


Humor was the best medicine I ever took to recover from my traumatic development. I hope humor helps you as well to recover from losing your brother.


----------



## clairebear

Lordmayhem, maybe I didn't explain myself well, what my lawyer said was that every law has it's loopholes depending how "smart" POSOM lawyer is he may or may not try to use it, it doesn't mean he will or that it will be successful, the fact he lives eight hours away and is friends with my family is an issue. Here we are aware that what POSOM has done is stalking but not yet for the law, keep in mind I only have the trash he left on the mail box and one police report that states only "domestic dispute" to the law this is not stalking yet, I would need POS to engage in this behavior for longer time to be straight out stalking, if when POSOM came to my house the police had not made any report at all the RO would have very likely been dismissed. A RO is not that easy to get special if does not involved a spouse as is the case. Yes, if my brother and SIL violate the NC letter I will have grounds to request a RO that I may or may not get in this case cause POSOM is staying there I probably would.


Morituri, thanks. I hear you, humor does help a lot to be able to cope. My IC is also helping me to go through it, I was told I need to mourn his loss and allow myself to grief, I'm working on it, trying not to shut down my emotions and let it flow, wife has been supportive and trying to help me heal, since this started I got the worse from my family but at the same time the best from my parents in law and my brother in law for that I'm grateful, I'm trying to focus on the positives as hard as it is.


----------



## lordmayhem

clairebear said:


> Lordmayhem, maybe I didn't explain myself well, what my lawyer said was that every law has it's loopholes depending how "smart" POSOM lawyer is he may or may not try to use it, it doesn't mean he will or that it will be successful, the fact he lives eight hours away and is friends with my family is an issue.


I think I know a thing or two about criminal statutes, having testified on the stand and defense lawyers grilling me. As long as the elements of the statute have been met and articulated well by the victim, loopholes or no loopholes, even a good defense attorney is going to waive the white flag on that one.

Having his residence 8 hours away and being a friend of the family is irrelevant. A person can get one against their parent(s) or sibling(s).



clairebear said:


> Here we are aware that what POSOM has done is stalking but not yet for the law, keep in mind I only have the trash he left on the mail box and one police report that states only "domestic dispute" to the law this is not stalking yet,


Either your state statutes are liberal or vague concerning stalking, or you failed to articulate this in the report. 



clairebear said:


> I would need POS to engage in this behavior for longer time to be straight out stalking,


Again, your state statutes must be liberal or vague about this. Length of time should be irrelevant. All it should take is that his actions caused you and your wife fear.



clairebear said:


> if when POSOM came to my house the police had not made any report at all the RO would have very likely been dismissed.


That at least makes sense. It is harder to get an RO against someone without a detailed police report.



clairebear said:


> A RO is not that easy to get special if does not involved a spouse as is the case.


So it's easier to get an RO there if the suspect is a spouse? OM is an exboyfriend of your WW. Like you said, that makes it domestic.



clairebear said:


> Yes, if my brother and SIL violate the NC letter I will have grounds to request a RO that I may or may not get in this case cause POSOM is staying there I probably would.


Because OM is staying there it would be grounds for an RO against your brother and SIL? How is that relevant? Because according to your laws, they would have to be engaging in stalking behavior for a long period of time, is it not?

I'm just trying to understand what's going on here. BTW, did you get a copy of the police report? What did it say?


----------



## clairebear

Basically what my lawyer said was that sadly courts will much more likely give someone a RO against their spouse than they will against anyone else, my lawyer has never lost a case that involved someone's spouse, one of the reasons is because you can allege you been suffering from abuse for many months or years, this is what I was told.

Well if my brother/SIL would contact me regarding POSOM I can allege that he is there, there's a RO against him and they contacted me, this of course would also be a violation of the RO by POS once it states he cannot use a third party to contact us, this does not mean I would get a RO against my brother/SIL but it gives me grounds for it.

The police report only says "domestic dispute" nothing else.


----------



## Entropy3000

clairebear said:


> Basically what my lawyer said was that sadly courts will much more likely give someone a RO against their spouse than they will against anyone else, my lawyer has never lost a case that involved someone's spouse, one of the reasons is because you can allege you been suffering from abuse for many months or years, this is what I was told.
> 
> Well if my brother/SIL would contact me regarding POSOM I can allege that he is there, there's a RO against him and they contacted me, this of course would also be a violation of the RO by POS once it states he cannot use a third party to contact us, this does not mean I would get a RO against my brother/SIL but it gives me grounds for it.
> 
> The police report only says "domestic dispute" nothing else.


I am amazed the report did not mention that he touched your wife. There should have been a report the first time he showed up. Some very shoddy police work or there is something missing.


----------



## clairebear

Entropy3000 said:


> I am amazed the report did not mention that he touched your wife. There should have been a report the first time he showed up. Some very shoddy police work or there is something missing.


The police report was only done because I really pushed for it other way it wouldn't have, POSOM was very cooperative with the police during the whole thing, it made it seem that was just three people arguing about something, yea I told them everything that has been going on but again was my word against POSOM, I have no report about the first time he came over.


----------



## scione

If it was me... Next time he comes over, I'll let him into the house. Beat the crap out of him to the point of death. Put a baseball bat in his hand. Call a cop and say somebody broken into your house. Just sayin.


----------



## clairebear

scione said:


> If it was me... Next time he comes over, I'll let him into the house. Beat the crap out of him to the point of death. Put a baseball bat in his hand. Call a cop and say somebody broken into your house. Just sayin.


The irony is that both my lawyer and one of the officers I talked to (when POS was sitting on his car outside my home) told me not directly but implied something around the same lines "well if he breaks into your home then you can...." " you were just protecting your family" so yea does give you some ideas...


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## krismimo

How are you doing Clairebear hope all is well!


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## clairebear

krismimo said:


> How are you doing Clairebear hope all is well!


Hey Krismimo, thanks for checking on me! I hope all is well with you too!!! 

Things are going well, I get home everyday between 5:00 - 5:30 pm, been spending a lot of time with the wife and kids. We also keep going out on date night every week and are following up with MC and IC for both of us. Our marriage is much better now than it was before the affair and I risk to say is better now than ever was, wife told me the other night that I'm "letting her in" and that she feels we are more connected now that when we were dating. She also has been helping me heal and go through my bad days, my neighbor's wife was indeed cheating and took off with her OM after cleaning their joint account, this was a huge trigger for me and I was off balance for a few days, wife was very understanding, caring and helped me to calm down. She has also and without being asked tells me where she is at all times, if she goes out she let's me know where she is going and keeps calling me every 15 minutes so I know where she is/what she is doing and when I get home she hands me over all the receipts of anything that she got. This is helping me to start building my trust on her (I still doing my own checking) but means a lot to me she is coming forward about it without being asked.

FIL is going back to work on monday but wife says that she will be ok staying home alone with the kids during the day, BIL will check on her going and coming from classes through out the day. We will host thanksgiving this year, my MIL has hosted it since forever, since I started going out with wife we have always been to them for the holidays but this year my MIL is not in the best health and the in laws have helped so much with the kids and supporting us through all this that this year we will host it ourselves, wife is very excited, she loves all the cooking and organizing involved and loves to have people over. We are planning to do something small but knowing wife the way I do "there's always place for a few more plates" lol 

Wife always had the desire to move to the country, far from the city and suburbs, lately we have discussed it again, I also realized that during this almost ten years of marriage she is the one who has sacrificed more for our family and that all the big decisions have been made by me, I think it may be time to do something that she has wanted all along. We will see some properties this weekend and go from there...

As as far as POSOM goes we have the court hearing in a few weeks and I heard from the family grapevine that he is no longer staying with my brother/SIL, whether is true or not I don't know...


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## adv

It sounds like things are going much better for both of you. Keep up the good work as it's nice to see a success around here once in a while.:smthumbup:


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## Chaparral

Great job CB, really happy to hear it.


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## Almostrecovered

You sir are a testament and the way you and your wife managed to get closer through this incredible sh!t storm is truly amazing and speaks volumes of your character and fortitude. I am very happy for you that this appears to be headed in the best possible direction for you and wife considering the circumstances.


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## joe kidd

Almostrecovered said:


> You sir are a testament and the way you and your wife managed to get closer through this incredible sh!t storm is truly amazing and speaks volumes of your character and fortitude. I am very happy for you that this appears to be headed in the best possible direction for you and wife considering the circumstances.


Oh yes. R is hard enough without nutbags stalking you. As I said before sir, you are a rock.


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## clairebear

Thank you very much guys, I really appreciate your words and it is thanks to all of you here that I been able to handle things the way I am, if wasn't for all your support and advice I would have lost it, I was close to it a few times. You guys have really been the best.

Tonight BIL came for dinner and afterwards wife and I went for a walk, she thanked me for have made her "my wife and the mom of our kids " and for have done that "twice" when I decided to give her a second chance after the EA, she told me I "will not regret it" and she "won't disappoint me" She also said how much she "admires me and the way" I'm handling all the crap with POSOM and that "she is in love with me" :smthumbup: I didn't control my tears or my emotions (before IC I would have) I just let her know that I love her and we will go through this, it will be okay. I'm really hopeful we will and in a successful R.


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## clairebear

Hey Everyone,

Just giving a quick update. Things are going well, we saw the properties over the weekend and there is one wife really liked, it's a very big house and big property, plenty of space to the kids play, wife can have a garden and even eventually get the horses she and the kids really want. I really want to get this property as a surprise for my wife, we will celebrate our 10 year anniversary next month and I really want to surprise her with this house more the honeymoon she has been wanting all along, so I talked with my in laws and they offered to buy my house (they will later sell it and get the money back) and they also offered to cover part of the difference between my house and the new property, this way I will be able to get it free and clear and get the deal done by the time of our anniversary. I'm very excited about this and I think it's a good decision. 

We will be going to court in about two weeks now. My brother called my lawyer, with the holidays approaching he wanted to "invite me for coffee" and try to "sort things out" it may seem harsh but NC is NC and I frankly don't think there's anything for us to sort out.


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## adv

With your brother, as much as it sucks, I think you are taking the right path. A betrayal such as his can not be overlooked just because the holidays are near. In fact, it is all the more reason to stick to NC in the hopes that he may realize the problems he has helped facilitate.


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## adv

And good job to both you and your wife for moving through this together. Hopefully, you will both be stronger and more in-tune with each others needs at the end.


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## TRy

clairebear said:


> My brother called my lawyer, with the holidays approaching he wanted to "invite me for coffee" and try to "sort things out" it may seem harsh but NC is NC and I frankly don't think there's anything for us to sort out.


Take this opportunity to send a short 2 line note through the attorney back to your brother explaining why there is nothing to sort out. It will make you feel better.

It should say something such as "There is no need to meet as you have already sorted things when you decided to be an open enemy of my marriage. When I needed my family most, not only were you not there for me, but you actively helped a stranger against me, my children and the love of my life."


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## adv

I think TRy's suggestion is better than my own.


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## clairebear

Adv and Try, thanks for the feedback guys. Wife and I are working on R very hard, following very serious with the MC and IC and communicating with each other very openly about our feelings and needs, wife has also helping a lot with the triggers, she is being very patient, understanding and loving about it, I think we will be able to keep up the work and have a much better marriage.

I do like your suggestion as a note to my brother, I have been struggling with sending a note or not, I want it but haven't been sure about it. I can't get pass the fact that if depended on him I would be the one spending the holidays alone, he didn't want me to fight for my marriage and gave POS a place to stay, I really can't get pass this.


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## tacoma

clairebear said:


> I do like your suggestion as a note to my brother, I have been struggling with sending a note or not, I want it but haven't been sure about it. I can't get pass the fact that if depended on him I would be the one spending the holidays alone, he didn't want me to fight for my marriage and gave POS a place to stay, I really can't get pass this.


Nor should you get past it.

I wouldn`t send him anything.

I`d never speak to him through any medium again.


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## adv

tacoma said:


> Nor should you get past it.
> 
> I wouldn`t send him anything.
> 
> I`d never speak to him through any medium again.


You're right Tacoma, some things can't and shouldn't be forgiven. No matter the vice grip Clairbear's sister-in-law has on his brother's balls, he is still family and he failed to support and help his brother when needed.


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## krismimo

Hmm I wrestle with this, I'm glade that everything is going along fine with you clairbear you sond happy and happy to hear that your wife is seems healthier and doing everything she can she build your marriage. Now about your brother for right now I would say cut your losses, seems like maybe the only way you two might possibly reconcile is if he is not with yout toxic SIL any longer, I feel the spell would finally lift and she wouldnt be an influence on him anymore. As for your family I wish you guys well withthe new home a fresh start is always a good thing.


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## Entropy3000

Way too soon to be sorting anything out with the brother. I suggest you let that simmer for a few years. Seriously. Wait at least until you and your wife are rock solid again. I agree that realisitically he was not there for you when you really needed him. I would cut him loose for eternity. He is toxic.


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## clairebear

Thanks Everyone. I really appreciate your comments, as hard as it is I really don't imagine myself forgiving my brother, I think if I'm ever I'm able to, my forgiveness will still not come along with having a relationship with him. I could never really trust him with any info or would be able to have a normal relationship with him, anything I would tell him would end up in SIL's ears and just create more drama. It makes me sad of course cause is my only brother but he did betrayed me and tried to help destroy my life, in his position I would have acted very differently.


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## aug

From the brother's perspective, he had to make a choice of his marriage or his brother. I suppose, to him, his marriage is more important than his brother -- just like clairebear is making a choice right now that his marriage is more important than his brother.

Yes?

Similarly, who's more important - wife or parent?


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## TRy

aug said:


> From the brother's perspective, he had to make a choice of his marriage or his brother. I suppose, to him, his marriage is more important than his brother -- just like clairebear is making a choice right now that his marriage is more important than his brother.


You are very wrong to put the brother in the same light as CB in picking his wife over his brother. The brother was actively helping his wife to hurt CB's life in a big and immoral way (remember CB is the husband and not the OM). CB is only staying away from the brother because of this betray and not at the request of his wife. They are not at all the same. To compare the two is almost insulting to CB.


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## morituri

CB, please keep in mind that forgiveness and reconciliation are two totally separate things. It is possible to forgive a betrayer yet never reconcile with him/her, as well as never forgive and yet reconcile. I hope you can give some thought to it.



morituri said:


> What is forgiveness?
> 
> For a great many people, it means amnesty for the offender and of the consequences that would befall him/her. The problem with this definition is that it makes the offender the beneficiary while the offended getting nothing in return.
> 
> But to others, myself included, forgiveness means to accept - not condone - that what was done cannot be undone and to make peace with it, NOT for the benefit of the offender but for the benefit of the offended. This type of forgiveness does not remove the consequences that would befall the offender.
> 
> People who subscribe to the former definition of forgiveness are unable to achieve it because it is an emotionally daunting task. It is also dependent on the offender showing true remorse to the offended for his/her transgression(s) which may or may not be present or ever will be.
> 
> But those of us who subscribe to the latter definition, forgiveness is an acknowledgement that no matter what the outcome of the situation with the offender is, that in order for us to move on with our lives is to *make the decision that anger and bitterness are the toxic twins that will forever follow us and poison our lives IF we consciously allow them to. Here, forgiveness is a conscious choice for the benefit of the offended, not the offender.*
> 
> I divorced my wife not because I could not forgive her for her affair nor because I no longer loved her, but because at the time it was necessary for me to do so in order to emotionally and psychologically heal myself. And yes, I did forgive her because I subscribe to the latter definition of forgiveness.


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## aug

TRy said:


> You are very wrong to put the brother in the same light as CB in picking his wife over his brother. The brother was *actively *helping his wife to hurt CB's life in a big and immoral way (remember CB is the husband and not the OM). CB is only staying away from the brother because of this betray and not at the request of his wife. They are not at all the same. To compare the two is almost insulting to CB.



Actively? I dont believe so. In the brother's family, the SIL runs it.


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## clairebear

Thank you guys, Aug, I know where you coming from and I respect your opinion and perspective but I cannot agree it's the situation in this case, Try explains the concept very well and there's something I would like to share. My parents are very selfish people who were never that close with us to this day but when my brother started dating SIL my mother from the get go was very against their relationship, she didn't like SIL and did everything she could to mess up their engagement and marriage, the situation got so out of hand that for the first couple of years of their marriage my brother had no relationship whatsoever with my mother, this until that she learned to respect some boundaries and respect SIL as his wife. No matter my opinion of SIL already back then my brother was correct, it was not my mother's job choose who he was going to marry or not and at the time I did support his decision. My brother didn't have to take my side but he could have made the choice to at least not get involved in trying to ruin my marriage or trying to make me believe I shouldn't fight for my family.

Morituri, thanks for this fantastic post about forgiveness, I have not thought about it this way,I do want to get to a place where I can forgive my brother and move on, I don't want this toxic feelings to keep eating at me for the rest of my life. I want be able to find peace and let it go. Thank you for pointing out that forgiveness and reconciliation are two separate things, I think I will eventually be able to achieve the first one, as far as reconciliation goes I honestly do not see it as a possibility.


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## Almostrecovered

I would only speak to your brother if he sent a message stating he was divorcing his wife


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## Initfortheduration

You think you want to start a new thread? "My wife chose me". Or is that to soon.


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## krismimo

Like I said before, I think the honestly the only chance you and your brother have of reconciling is if she is out the picture, then and only then will be probably look back and see the poor choices he made with his wife. I believe that when your with someone they either bring out the best in you or the worst.


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## Darth Vader

clairebear said:


> Adv and Try, thanks for the feedback guys. Wife and I are working on R very hard, following very serious with the MC and IC and communicating with each other very openly about our feelings and needs, wife has also helping a lot with the triggers, she is being very patient, understanding and loving about it, I think we will be able to keep up the work and have a much better marriage.
> 
> I do like your suggestion as a note to my brother, I have been struggling with sending a note or not, I want it but haven't been sure about it. I can't get pass the fact that if depended on him I would be the one spending the holidays alone, he didn't want me to fight for my marriage and gave POS a place to stay, I really can't get pass this.


Maybe I missed something, but, was this an EA or PA or both your wife had with the psycho OM? In any case, it seems like your wife has not only put herself in jeopardy, but also you and the children from her actions. 

_I wonder if she still wants the love of her life_


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## Complexity

any update clairebear?


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## calif_hope

Back from the dead! Last post six weeks ago
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri




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## TallE

I just finished reading this entire thread. Took me a few days. Claire Bear, I hope that your silence in the last few weeks means that you are working towards R successfully.

Somewhere in this thread you mentioned that you had not taken a day off in 10 years. 

I am sure that by now you have read in some "how to" book for saving your marriage that taking time off from work to work on your relationship is a necessity.

I myself am not married, yet. (am engaged to be married this year). However, my fiance and I make it a point to go away every 6 months to the Caribbean or on a cruise or whatever. We find that it recharges our relationship and gives us something to look forward to.

Not sure how realistic it is for others to do so when you throw children and in other financial circumstances into the equation. However, I really think that you should at least go away once every year. Going 10 years without a vacation together is just trouble waiting to happen in my opinion, especially if your W is a SAHM.

Good luck


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## calif_hope

TallE, did you notice the dates on the postings ....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

calif_hope said:


> TallE, did you notice the dates on the postings ....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think so....



> I hope that your silence in the last few weeks means that you are working towards R successfully.


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## TallE

calif_hope said:


> TallE, did you notice the dates on the postings ....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup, I did. Anxiously waiting for an update like everyone else.


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## krismimo

Hey CB how are things gpoing? Hopefully well. -Kris


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## Dadof3

Probably back to working too much, hence no visit to the forum!


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## clairebear

Hey good folks at TAM! Thanks for checking on me! Haven't forgot you guys! A lot going on!

A quick update! Things are going well. Following up with IC/MC, R is going good, we finally had that honeymoon for our wedding anniversary, closed the deal and got the property wife wanted so much, there's some construction work who needs to be done, we will move probably around march, wife and kids also want horses I will see what I can do! No contact with my brother or SIL, no drama! We got the one year RO against POS, he has not violated it and there's been no contact, I'm trusting but verifying! His side of the story believes once the kids go away for college (about 5/6 years from now) wife will leave, I'm not letting this thought bother me or mess up R, I have bad days and good days, wife has been great and very caring helping me with triggers. Of course I wonder if she thinks of him/loves him special when she gets lost on her own thoughts but the only thing I can do is be the best man I can be and do my best, I will not let this thoughts get into the way of R. In short we are happy and I'm able I gave her a second chance.

Thank you very much to everyone here for their help and care, I'm very grateful to this board!


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