# After MC -Now I am not sure I want to be married to her



## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Those who know my story will know I heard my WAW tell me she wanted a Divorce in February. We went to MC for awhile then tried weekly meetings and the Mort Fertel book. After some signs of hope about a month ago she up and left me. Again said she wanted a Divorce and then backed off to say she would work on it. So we are both in MC and IC each. 

Tonight was are 3rd MC meeting where I heard the same complaints, of petty incidents which she is as much responsible for and I have apologized for likely several times now. Most of the stories she exaggerates to some degree.

The one thought that really popped into my head was sadly...I am not sure I want to be married to her anymore. She just seems so childish and will never let these incidents go, whether she is right or wrong.

These past 10 months I have been fully on board and wanting to fix and repair the marriage, but now I it seems that I am losing my desire and love for her.

My question to those who have done MC. Has anyone had these thoughts before? Or am I just realizing the real writing on the wall? 

Maybe it is too soon and this is just part of the process?

Can anyone share their MC experiences?


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## Darkhorse (Dec 3, 2011)

MC seems to harp on the negatives. People want to vent, which is good, but it keeps bringing the bad things to the light instead of trying to heal and move forward. Either ditch MC or you and your wife need to agree to use MC to HEAL, not rehash. NOTHING good will come of it. Nothing.

It's good to start seeing your wife for who she is, not the woman you are mourning. So you may not feel "in love" with her at the moment...but that doesn't mean you don't love her. In fact, it's just a stepping stone to a deeper love IF that is where you want to go.

The ball is in your court. Where you throw it is up to you.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

You ought to be going to a counsellor who will tell her in no uncertain terms to stop harping on about petty incidents. Otherwise its more likely he will be the cause of your break up than the one to mend it.


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## Darkhorse (Dec 3, 2011)

I would recommend independent counseling for the both of you, then you two can come together and talk about what you're learning about yourselves. Much more productive than paying a therapist for an hour to hear all the bad shet.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

TIM: Based on what I remember of your prior threads - she's already been seeing someone outside of your marriage. Dunno why you'd go to MC when she's in the midst of an affair.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

It AINT gonna get better till she's out of the fog. You know that. At this point looks like you are ready to move on. Maybe you ought to give that option additional consideration. You've grown as a person now. She is no longer someone you want to stay married to. You've matured, she's regressed. 

Its sad, but while you've lost a lot. I think you've gained so much more!


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Darkhorse said:


> MC seems to harp on the negatives. People want to vent, which is good, but it keeps bringing the bad things to the light instead of trying to heal and move forward. Either ditch MC or you and your wife need to agree to use MC to HEAL, not rehash. NOTHING good will come of it. Nothing.
> 
> It's good to start seeing your wife for who she is, not the woman you are mourning. So you may not feel "in love" with her at the moment...but that doesn't mean you don't love her. In fact, it's just a stepping stone to a deeper love IF that is where you want to go.
> 
> The ball is in your court. Where you throw it is up to you.


Thank you for the feedback. I agree. When we went the last time it became very frustrating that she keeps harping on the same stories and blames me 100% as if she has nothing to do with what happened and why the issue started. 

All the complaints of these past incidents have explanations why I did what I did or did not do what she believes I did, but her mind is hard wired to believe it is all my fault.

Even though I have apologized in the past, she can still not let these go. Which makes me believe she is just holding on to these as her reason to not repair the marriage, and actually being used to destroy it.

I got three things out of MC last night. One, she changed her goal of doing MC from repairing the marriage to not sure status. Two, she cannot show any remorse for her part in the incidents she is holding against me and will not forgive or apologize. Three, I believe my love for her is now fading.

I understand my thoughts and comments are reactionary to the unpleasant feeling of the experience last night and will change with time. She has agreed to IC and will start over the weekend. I will also be going back over the weekend for myself and we will both do joint again next Monday.

The sad thing is I just read RDJ Personal Growth post right before MC and got excited with the hope it gave me. I even shared a bit of it with the MC and WAW at the beginning of the session. That positive turned very negative with her living in the past information.

At this moment I will continue to show patience.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

accept said:


> You ought to be going to a counsellor who will tell her in no uncertain terms to stop harping on about petty incidents. Otherwise its more likely he will be the cause of your break up than the one to mend it.


I will address this with the MC in my IC meeting on Friday. In defense of both of them, I believe the MC wanted to get an idea of the issues we have had and how we dealt with them, so she can advise us moving forward. But it also showed the WAW just wanted to take dwell on these moments to spew as much of the same old junk as she has for nearly a year now.

The meeting left me feeling we had taken one step forward and then two steps back.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Dadof3 said:


> . She is no longer someone you want to stay married to.


That is not exactly what I said.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

It sounds like for one reason or another you have an embittered wife on your hands. Her embitterment will cause her to just see the bad in you (from her point of view) and none of the good in you.

Ask your wife if (a) she still loves you and if the answer is no, (b) is she still capable of loving you. If you get a no to both questions then all you are doing is spinning your wheels and wasting time and money. If she gives a yes to either, then take yourselves off to something like a marriage enrichment program at Alpha Marriage Course | Emmanuel Methodist Church. You do not have to participate in these programs. It is not about solving specific problems, it is about teaching you successful marriage structures and dynamics. Forgiveness is a big part of it as is the art of communication and building strong foundations.

What resentful and embittered wives don’t realise, what they don’t foresee is that their very bitterness about things from the past actually kills their husband’s love for them and drives him away. And basically that’s because men are very forward thinking and look to times 20 or 30 years ahead and imagine themselves being taken to task for the very same things they were taken to task decades previously.

Plus. Whenever an embittered wife complains to their husband about an event from times past, say fifteen years ago, the husband just thinks what a total waste of time all his “good” was in the intervening 15 years. He just see those years as an absolute waste of time as far as his wife is concerned and becomes entrenched and determined to waste no more of his life.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

May I advise you again. Your MC at the moment seems to be your only hope so use her well. Get a decision out of her for everything you or your wife brings up. Right or wrong. Dont waste your money. If she says you were wrong about something, own up and say sorry. Your wife will most likely do the same if she sees you do it. Whatever you do dont argue with her the MC or try to defend yourself, just admit it and get it over with and move on. Your MC will hardly likely agree to this kind of session, thats not the way they were trained, but its the only one that really works.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

AFEH said:


> It sounds like for one reason or another you have an embittered wife on your hands. Her embitterment will cause her to just see the bad in you (from her point of view) and none of the good in you.
> 
> Ask your wife if (a) she still loves you and if the answer is no, (b) is she still capable of loving you. If you get a no to both questions then all you are doing is spinning your wheels and wasting time and money. If she gives a yes to either, then take yourselves off to something like a marriage enrichment program at Alpha Marriage Course | Emmanuel Methodist Church. You do not have to participate in these programs. It is not about solving specific problems, it is about teaching you successful marriage structures and dynamics. Forgiveness is a big part of it as is the art of communication and building strong foundations.
> 
> ...


I am pretty certain her answers would be vague to your questions depending on her moment. She has stated on occasion that she still loves me, but has lost the loving feelings towards me. So is she capable is the real question. We are seperated and she wants her space, plus I am doing the 180 which makes is difficult to communicate with her about our relationship. 

Through this whole process, she has shown very little interest in talking about the relationship and working on it. Where I have was trying and found it was pushing her away. My understanding from reading up on WAW and MLC is they need to figure it out on their own, but I fail to see her snapping out of it.

What do I do, what do I do.

1. Keep giving her space and time?
2. Break the 180 to a small degree and ask her to be direct with how invested she really is in repair?
3. Visit a lawyer, make sure I am covered and tell her either she is all in or I am prepared to move on with my life?

All I want for Christmas is my old normal life back.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

accept said:


> May I advise you again. Your MC at the moment seems to be your only hope so use her well. Get a decision out of her for everything you or your wife brings up. Right or wrong. Dont waste your money. If she says you were wrong about something, own up and say sorry. Your wife will most likely do the same if she sees you do it. Whatever you do dont argue with her the MC or try to defend yourself, just admit it and get it over with and move on. Your MC will hardly likely agree to this kind of session, thats not the way they were trained, but its the only one that really works.


Please I appreciate the advice. I agree the MC is our hope. The stories from the past are hard to hear over and over when I have already apologized for them and she shares a great deal of the fault. 

I have read what you are talking about regarding not defending myself for her claims right or wrong. I actually knew this and failed this approach last night. Depending on how this week goes, I will try to remind myself of that next week.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

accept said:


> May I advise you again. Your MC at the moment seems to be your only hope so use her well. Get a decision out of her for everything you or your wife brings up. Right or wrong. Dont waste your money. If she says you were wrong about something, own up and say sorry. Your wife will most likely do the same if she sees you do it. Whatever you do dont argue with her the MC or try to defend yourself, just admit it and get it over with and move on. Your MC will hardly likely agree to this kind of session, thats not the way they were trained, but its the only one that really works.


I reread this and understand now that you are saying to have the MC play judge on every claim. I don't think she will do that. In a round about way I know she was trying to point out to the WAW that she was not hearing me and my interest in an apology for her part in an issue too. My WAW is very strong headed like her mother and has an ego/attitude of being superior and not humble.

I hope to address the individual claims made against me with the MC ant IC later this week.

Thanks!


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

AFEH said:


> It sounds like for one reason or another you have an embittered wife on your hands. Her embitterment will cause her to just see the bad in you (from her point of view) and none of the good in you.
> 
> Ask your wife if (a) she still loves you and if the answer is no, (b) is she still capable of loving you. If you get a no to both questions then all you are doing is spinning your wheels and wasting time and money. If she gives a yes to either, then take yourselves off to something like a marriage enrichment program at Alpha Marriage Course | Emmanuel Methodist Church. You do not have to participate in these programs. It is not about solving specific problems, it is about teaching you successful marriage structures and dynamics. Forgiveness is a big part of it as is the art of communication and building strong foundations.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Great advice... so true my wife can list all the little "bad" stuff even going back to our wedding! It is like none of the good gets recognized...it's crazy. Women are weird.

Thankfully mine is coming around... no longer talks about the past.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

At times I think there must be something wrong with me that I cannot come up with all the crappy things my wife did to me over the past 20 years. But, women's brains are wired to remember emotional events better than men (for the most part). AFEH is dead on about how all these past 'transgressions' blot out anything good us Hs have done and pushes the W away.

I've tried (and we'll see if it works out), telling the W that I am interested in discussing things from the past ONLY if it can be a positive discussion with the goal of a resolution so that we can move on and be done with it. We can discuss something from a couple weeks ago only to help improve the future.

Moving forward, things need to be discussed as they happen. The statute of limitations is now only a few weeks long (at most).

That all said, my wife is very good at pushing all the right buttons and sucking me into the same, tired and pointless conversations.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

I carry on. When you go make sure you bring with some sharp 'weapons' as well. For every fault she has with you have one ready about her. Dont overdo it, just try to keep even and level. Once she sees and is told by the MC she is also not the angel she thinks she is she will not expect you to be. But it must come from the MC who tells her that. You really need a lawyer to speak for you there. If your MC is not prepared to play judge you wont get anywhere.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

accept said:


> I carry on. When you go make sure you bring with some sharp 'weapons' as well. For every fault she has with you have one ready about her. Dont overdo it, just try to keep even and level. Once she sees and is told by the MC she is also not the angel she thinks she is she will not expect you to be. But it must come from the MC who tells her that. You really need a lawyer to speak for you there. If your MC is not prepared to play judge you wont get anywhere.


I try to gentle drop reminders about certain things related to her complaints about me that show she is also responsible for how it plays out. Our MC trys to chime in to point out where she may be missing her errors, but she is a strong spirit with a self absorbed ego sometimes and blocks out her own issues.

I know I am not a saint, but try to acknowledge my faults and hope for change. Would be refreshing to hear that from her.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

jayde said:


> At times I think there must be something wrong with me that I cannot come up with all the crappy things my wife did to me over the past 20 years. But, women's brains are wired to remember emotional events better than men (for the most part). AFEH is dead on about how all these past 'transgressions' blot out anything good us Hs have done and pushes the W away.
> 
> I've tried (and we'll see if it works out), telling the W that I am interested in discussing things from the past ONLY if it can be a positive discussion with the goal of a resolution so that we can move on and be done with it. We can discuss something from a couple weeks ago only to help improve the future.
> 
> ...



I like that, Statues of Limitations. I think I need to mention that. I am the same in regards to remembering things she has done. It must be a guy thing to forgive and forget. I fully understand that none of us are perfect and as long as we are trying to improve, it is worth continuing onward and hopefully upward.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

So she just left me an VM message asking if I could call her to remind her our next MC time? It is the same day and time next week. How could she forget?

Is this her just wanting to make sure I am still on board after her bashing last night?


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

No youre going about it the wrong way. Its no use saying she is repsonsible for your errors that wont work. You have to come up with real separate errors on her part which have nothing to do with you. Meaning which she cant blame you for. If your wife is a stronger character than the MC youre wasting your money.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

I wouldn't say she is stronger, but a bit less polite at times. I appreciate the nature of the MC. For what I have seen she is good. 

It is hard for me to come up with specific issues, since I let them go. Actually, I should not need them if we are moving forward and not dwelling on the past. I will give it some thought as a card in the back pocket.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

There is no reason not to be polite to the MC. If I were the MC I would be giving your wife a ticking off every time. You seem to think that you can just move forward. It just doesnt work that way. The past has first to be 'cut' away.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

TIM - firstly, I got the impression at some point that your MC is the same person as your IC, did I get this right?? ANd is your wife seeing the same person for IC? Or are there 3 different therapists (which is ideal, I think).

The reason I ask is that when we had our first round of MC, my wife was seeing the Therapist for herself for some time. I was a marked man when I walked in. At one point my wife said, if Jay doesn't speak to me, "I needle him, needle him, needle him' until he does. The therapist didn't blink and eye at this but slammed me for being sarcastic. 

Whatever (he says sarcastically).

Just make sure the MC is being objective, fair and forthright.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

This is me said:


> So she just left me an VM message asking if I could call her to remind her our next MC time? It is the same day and time next week. How could she forget?
> 
> Is this her just wanting to make sure I am still on board after her bashing last night?


This strikes me as some sort of controlling stuff where she gets you to do things for her. She should be able to maange her own schdules and appointments but if she can get you to call to tell her, why not?

On another note, I wonder if she realizes how bashed you feel (??).


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

The short answer is YES, there were many times in MC that I felt ready to divorce. But I was committed to making my marriage work and eventually, so was my husband, and we are REALLY REALLY happy now. We've been together 7 years, married 5 and the past 3 years have gotten sweeter and sweeter.

We still do maintenance MC (going tonight) about every 6 weeks. And my H and I also do IC to work on ourselves. 

We had to switch MC several times, and IC several times, to find the right person....and they are all psychologists. We saw some MSW, LMFT types and they just didn't have the same professionalism or approach.

MC and IC is a PROCESS and takes a long while to work. I would encourage each of you to get IC because you probably have issues that are holding you back from getting the most from the MC. For example, the MC may suggest you both change certain behaviors but you won't be able to make those changes if you have unresolved issues. KWIM?


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

This is me said:


> I will address this with the MC in my IC meeting on Friday. In defense of both of them, I believe the MC wanted to get an idea of the issues we have had and how we dealt with them, so she can advise us moving forward. But it also showed the WAW just wanted to take dwell on these moments to spew as much of the same old junk as she has for nearly a year now.
> 
> The meeting left me feeling we had taken one step forward and then two steps back.


Whao nelly! There is a big conflict if you and/or your wife are seeing your MC as your IC. No good MC or IC will do this. It creates a conflict in terms of trust, transparency, etc. 

MC is only as good as your counselor. There are many MC out there and only a small % of them are really good. Mixing clients is not cool!


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

This is me said:


> The one thought that really popped into my head was sadly...I am not sure I want to be married to her anymore. She just seems so childish and will never let these incidents go, whether she is right or wrong.
> 
> These past 10 months I have been fully on board and wanting to fix and repair the marriage, but now I it seems that I am losing my desire and love for her.
> 
> ...


This must be part of the process because I think these thoughts all day. I wake up in the middle of the night thinking this stuff. I am consumed with having an affair. Although I have not proceeded, the ow stops my heart and I become paralyzed, consumed by her, thinking of nothing else, overwhelming attraction worse than high school. It takes every ounce of self control I can muster not to make my move. Doesn't look real good starting an affair while in counseling with my wife and I've got kids to think about too. I can't believe this is all happening. Like you, I didn't ask for this. All I want is things back the way they were


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

jayde said:


> TIM - firstly, I got the impression at some point that your MC is the same person as your IC, did I get this right?? ANd is your wife seeing the same person for IC? Or are there 3 different therapists (which is ideal, I think).
> 
> The reason I ask is that when we had our first round of MC, my wife was seeing the Therapist for herself for some time. I was a marked man when I walked in. At one point my wife said, if Jay doesn't speak to me, "I needle him, needle him, needle him' until he does. The therapist didn't blink and eye at this but slammed me for being sarcastic.
> 
> ...


We found this one together and both like her. She is both our MC and both our IC. Our first MC from earlier this year said he would not be both, which I had asked this one if that is a problem. According to her it should not be a problem and she will not be repeating information shared individually, but help us both express those items that do not come up in MC.

So far she seems fair, and objective.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

jayde said:


> This strikes me as some sort of controlling stuff where she gets you to do things for her. She should be able to maange her own schdules and appointments but if she can get you to call to tell her, why not?
> 
> On another note, I wonder if she realizes how bashed you feel (??).


I think she was trying to get a reading on me. I ended up texting her the info and not calling.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> The short answer is YES, there were many times in MC that I felt ready to divorce. But I was committed to making my marriage work and eventually, so was my husband, and we are REALLY REALLY happy now. We've been together 7 years, married 5 and the past 3 years have gotten sweeter and sweeter.
> 
> We still do maintenance MC (going tonight) about every 6 weeks. And my H and I also do IC to work on ourselves.
> 
> ...


Thank you. This is helpful. Having the WAW call me today to see what time our next one is showed me she is still on board and my emotions were pretty high last night after the beat me up session. I can take it if the end result is a better me and her, however this ends up.

Thank you for sharing!


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> Whao nelly! There is a big conflict if you and/or your wife are seeing your MC as your IC. No good MC or IC will do this. It creates a conflict in terms of trust, transparency, etc.
> 
> MC is only as good as your counselor. There are many MC out there and only a small % of them are really good. Mixing clients is not cool!


Well I questioned this with our current MC/IC and it did not seem to be a problem. Obviously if they are getting the business. I will have to ask around some more to see what others say and if so address this with the WAW.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

This is me said:


> Well I questioned this with our current MC/IC and it did not seem to be a problem. Obviously if they are getting the business.


Only 12% of therapist have any MC training at all yet 80% of therapist offer MC. IC is totally different than MC. IC involves meeting the happiness needs of only one person. MC involves controlling intense conflict and meeting the happiness needs of two people with different and often conflicting needs. Find out if your therapist has specific MC training.


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## unovoce (Dec 7, 2011)

This is me said:


> Thank you. This is helpful. Having the WAW call me today to see what time our next one is showed me she is still on board and my emotions were pretty high last night after the beat me up session. I can take it if the end result is a better me and her, however this ends up.
> 
> Thank you for sharing!


As I read through all of your posts, I can’t help noticing that even though you and your wife are in the midst of very difficult conflict right now, you seem willing to keep working at saving you r marriage – and I get the sense that she’s not ready to give up yet either. That’s huge, and if you can both be on the same page with that desire, there's hope. Laurae1967’s post was really encouraging, and I have to say I’ve read more than once about research that says that couples who were on the verge of divorce but stayed together were able to describe their marriages as “very happy” five years later. You haven’t said anything about whether or not you have kids- that’s always a major reason to keep fighting for your marriage. In any case, if you think divorce will be easier than the effort it takes to resolve the kinds of personal issues you’ve described, you may end up disappointed. I can’t quite get a sense for your MC’s approach from what you’ve said, and if you feel like they’re helping, I wouldn’t want to offer conflicting advice. At the same time, in a few years of having worked with Focus on the Family, I became familiar with many resources on marriage, and a couple of books came to mind right away - The Surprising Way to a Stronger Marriage: How the Power of One Changes Everything by Michael and Amy Smalley and I Love You More: How Everyday Problems Can Strengthen Your Marriage by Les and Leslie Parrott – might be worth checking out. I hope you’ll hang in there. Take care, ok?


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

unovoce said:


> As I read through all of your posts, I can’t help noticing that even though you and your wife are in the midst of very difficult conflict right now, you seem willing to keep working at saving you r marriage – and I get the sense that she’s not ready to give up yet either. That’s huge, and if you can both be on the same page with that desire, there's hope. Laurae1967’s post was really encouraging, and I have to say I’ve read more than once about research that says that couples who were on the verge of divorce but stayed together were able to describe their marriages as “very happy” five years later. You haven’t said anything about whether or not you have kids- that’s always a major reason to keep fighting for your marriage. In any case, if you think divorce will be easier than the effort it takes to resolve the kinds of personal issues you’ve described, you may end up disappointed. I can’t quite get a sense for your MC’s approach from what you’ve said, and if you feel like they’re helping, I wouldn’t want to offer conflicting advice. At the same time, in a few years of having worked with Focus on the Family, I became familiar with many resources on marriage, and a couple of books came to mind right away - The Surprising Way to a Stronger Marriage: How the Power of One Changes Everything by Michael and Amy Smalley and I Love You More: How Everyday Problems Can Strengthen Your Marriage by Les and Leslie Parrott – might be worth checking out. I hope you’ll hang in there. Take care, ok?


Thank you! I do appreciate hearing hopeful messages. Sadly we do not have kids as she was unable to with a mis-shaped womb. The fact that she is still going to MC is a positive sign, but her efforts for 10 months is scattered and minimal. She agreed to IC this week and I am already there. I have it in my head that I will do everything I can to improve myself and hopefully she will eventually do the same as well.

I am giving her space and time. I will continue in limboland as long as I can, and she shows she is trying.

I will look into the books and appreciate your sharing!


Thanks again!


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## unovoce (Dec 7, 2011)

Hey - glad to hear back from you. It sounds like you're in a really good place when it comes to having patience - my favorite definition of patience is "a willingness to wait." Stay strong and positive as you continue to give it time and know you've got support out here.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

She called today in the afternoon. Did not leave a message. Thought about a call back, email, text...and opted to just not respond at all.

Sadly, I felt closer to her in the days right after she walked....feeling further and further away. In someways I don't even feel like I know her anymore. 

IC tomorrow night.


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