# Why Woman initiate most Divorces



## MovingForward

Just thought this was an interesting article and website. 

The Breaking Point: Why Do Women Initiate Divorce More Than Men?


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## Bananapeel

I think that article is missing some major points. I think usually the men are hesitant to file because they worry about the financial implications and the loss of seeing their children, since the family court system as a whole has the reputation of favoring women. I think if there was more gender equality in the court system then men would file just as often as women do.


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## Married but Happy

I think the article is correct. The reason women file most, is for this reason (which seldom seems to be a motivation for men, IMO):



> Women seek closeness and vulnerability in marriage where, under the veil of marriage, it is safe to be real and raw with our chosen one, or soul mate. When she reaches out for that connected feeling and is met with the “wrong” response, she lays a brick down. Then one day, the wall is too high to penetrate it.


Men seem to have a different view of intimacy, and are more easily satisfied except when it comes to the quality and quantity of sex.


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## MovingForward

I do think it has some good points, communication styles for example between Men and Woman. 

Problem with these kinds of divorces is History will probably repeat its self again to these spouses with their new partners.


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## Ynot

I don't disagree with the article. But, I think she is just talking fundamentals however and never really got into specifics. To generic IMO. For instance there was no discussion about what happened to the connection that a W was seeking ( I assume she had it early, why else did she marry the M). Was it because, even though she averted her focus from the H to the children or her career, she still expected him to make her the center of her world? Despite the fact that the H had many of the same distractions as well? She also stated but never discussed why college educated women file at a higher rate than less educated women do. Why is that?


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## MovingForward

Bananapeel said:


> I think that article is missing some major points. I think usually the men are hesitant to file because they worry about the financial implications and the loss of seeing their children, since the family court system as a whole has the reputation of favoring women. I think if there was more gender equality in the court system then men would file just as often as women do.


I somewhat agree, I have known people who worked out what they would lose in Divorce and decide against it. Same for most dads we just assume we lose contact with our Children, i think maybe that is partially why I stayed so long and tried to make it work, be happy and convince myself everything was good.


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## MovingForward

Ynot said:


> I don't disagree with the article. But, I think she is just talking fundamentals however and never really got into specifics. To generic IMO. For instance there was no discussion about what happened to the connection that a W was seeking ( I assume she had it early, why else did she marry the M). Was it because, even though she averted her focus from the H to the children or her career, she still expected him to make her the center of her world? Despite the fact that the H had many of the same distractions as well? She also stated but never discussed why college educated women file at a higher rate than less educated women do. Why is that?


What I took away from it was Men and Woman want the same things mostly but ask for help and see, hear and translate things differently.

In my experience my XW wanted it all and wanted to give nothing and when I couldn't do it all she found someone else and got 50% of what she wanted. She wanted a provider(I paid all bills) she wanted a dad for kids(I spent most of my free time with children) she wanted to spend freely but have no debt and also a large savings account(I tried to balance constantly) she wanted free time(she got it) She wanted someone to help around the house(I hired a cleaner and did majority of the chores) and this left me with Zero time left to be a lover/husband etc I was so loaded with everything and she provided Zero support to me at all. 

She got her wish money(Alimony, child support plus a 6 figure lump sum) she got her free time since she only has them 50% of the time and regularly pays babysitters on her own time, she has a boyfriend who she lives with and just get to enjoy dating with.


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## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> I think that article is missing some major points. I think usually the men are hesitant to file because they worry about the financial implications and the loss of seeing their children, since the family court system as a whole has the reputation of favoring women. I think if there was more gender equality in the court system then men would file just as often as women do.


I would agree as well. I think as the courts alter rulings to be more reflective of modern reality and less about the past realities, we might see more men file in the future.
But another aspect I think has gone unmentioned is that men are conditioned at an early age to suffer in silence and just make do with what they have. They lack that empowerment message than many women are getting these days. Not only are they not receiving any sort of message of empowerment, but they are being blamed or shamed instead.


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## oldshirt

Ynot said:


> She also stated but never discussed why college educated women file at a higher rate than less educated women do. Why is that?


That's simple - more options. 

I'm going to admittedly stereotype a bit here to make a point, but an educated (and assumeably gainfully employed) woman is going to be more aware of her options and entitlements and responsibilities and she is going to be better able to afford her own legal representation and will be less financially dependent on a husband than someone without education/job training and other career options. 

Additionally, someone who has been barefoot and pregnant and rearing offspring her whole adult life, may simply not be as aware of what all options are out there and may not be aware of the resources and assistance that would be available to her.


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## oldshirt

.... another thing that I think we all need to keep in mind is our grand parents and great grandparents and beyond did have a lower divorce rate than educated professionals do today. 

But that does not mean that their lives, marriages and existences were any healthier or happier or more functional. Just because someone remains married, does not mean that it was a better or healthier existence - it just means they didn't take the steps to divorce.


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## MovingForward

Ynot said:


> I would agree as well. I think as the courts alter rulings to be more reflective of modern reality and less about the past realities, we might see more men file in the future.
> But another aspect I think has gone unmentioned is that men are conditioned at an early age to suffer in silence and just make do with what they have. They lack that empowerment message than many women are getting these days. Not only are they not receiving any sort of message of empowerment, but they are being blamed or shamed instead.


All great points and 100% spot on, there is no support system for men, I didn't even tell my Mother until the Divorce was underway and no one knew that I was in a great deal of stress and emotional pain and torment, I actually at one point considered giving up everything and just leaving and going back to my home country as I was breaking down and could not see a way out other than to run away.

My XW was surrounded by support of other woman and her parents and sister, men do not have that, we are supposed to not feel and be strong always but at the end of the day we are all just human.

Another thing to bring up is since most woman have already moved on in the heads and grieved it leaves the men blind sided and there entire world past and future is ripped apart before they have a chance to react so it just leaves a huge void and devastation.


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## NickyT

Most of the situations I know of were initiated by the wife. Of the 6 couple I know who have divorced, for all of them there were years of struggling in the marriage and then the wife found out the husband had been cheating for years. To me, this means that the men were willing to take what was given to them - sex and a responsible-free relationship from the mistress and stability, child rearing, homemaking from the wife - until it all fell apart. The men should have filed, but...well, in these cases, I think they were too selfish/lazy to do so.


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## MovingForward

NickyT said:


> Most of the situations I know of were initiated by the wife. Of the 6 couple I know who have divorced, for all of them there were years of struggling in the marriage and then the wife found out the husband had been cheating for years. To me, this means that the men were willing to take what was given to them - sex and a responsible-free relationship from the mistress and stability, child rearing, homemaking from the wife - until it all fell apart. The men should have filed, but...well, in these cases, I think they were too selfish/lazy to do so.


Cheating obviously is a slightly different matter, I have also seen this scenario but from what i have seen it is less common at least in the couples I know.


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## MovingForward

oldshirt said:


> That's simple - more options.
> 
> I'm going to admittedly stereotype a bit here to make a point, but an educated (and assumeably gainfully employed) woman is going to be more aware of her options and entitlements and responsibilities and she is going to be better able to afford her own legal representation and will be *less financially dependent on a husband than someone without education/job training and other career options. *
> 
> Additionally, someone who has been barefoot and pregnant and rearing offspring her whole adult life, may simply not be as aware of what all options are out there and may not be aware of the resources and assistance that would be available to her.


Yes this and maybe also the crowd they associate with in the work place.


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## cc48kel

I have heard that many women divorce when they are older as well. The kids are grown and out of the house and she wants to get out and go do something for herself.


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## StillSearching

Boy I wish mine would have 22 years ago........


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## oldshirt

cc48kel said:


> I have heard that many women divorce when they are older as well. The kids are grown and out of the house and she wants to get out and go do something for herself.


It is understandable that people (men and women for that matter) would want to do a number of things for themselves after the kids are grown. Heck, in a number of ways I feel that way now and my kids are 13 and 16 and still in the house for a few more years. 

But for that, the question must be asked - what is it that these people want to do that requires a divorce in order to do it?

Travel? - I don't recall ever buying plane tickets that forbade married people from flying? 

Taking up golf, tennis, mountain climbing etc ? - I've seen people on the golf course wearing wedding rings and over heard them talking about their spouses.

Going back to school? - I haven't come across any educational institutions that bar married people from attending.

Getting a new job? - Employers are barred by labor laws to even enquire about someone's marital status in an interview let alone restricting a position to only single people. 

Have sex with other people? Pretty much every city in the US with a population around 100K has a swingers club and there are countless swingers websites across the globe that embrace couples exploring their sexuality as a couple. 

So my point is, if someone wants to travel, go back to school, get a new/different job, engage in new hobbies, or heck even have sex with other people - there's nothing that says one has to be single to do those things. They can all be done as a married person *if both parties embrace it and agree to it together.*

It's when one or both people don't agree on it and don't want to make the journey together that it becomes an issue.


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## MovingForward

oldshirt said:


> It is understandable that people (men and women for that matter) would want to do a number of things for themselves after the kids are grown. Heck, in a number of ways I feel that way now and my kids are 13 and 16 and still in the house for a few more years.
> 
> But for that, the question must be asked - what is it that these people want to do that requires a divorce in order to do it?
> 
> Travel? - I don't recall ever buying plane tickets that forbade married people from flying?
> 
> Taking up golf, tennis, mountain climbing etc ? - I've seen people on the golf course wearing wedding rings and over heard them talking about their spouses.
> 
> Going back to school? - I haven't come across any educational institutions that bar married people from attending.
> 
> Getting a new job? - Employers are barred by labor laws to even enquire about someone's marital status in an interview let alone restricting a position to only single people.
> 
> Have sex with other people? Pretty much every city in the US with a population around 100K has a swingers club and there are countless swingers websites across the globe that embrace couples exploring their sexuality as a couple.
> 
> So my point is, if someone wants to travel, go back to school, get a new/different job, engage in new hobbies, or heck even have sex with other people - there's nothing that says one has to be single to do those things. They can all be done as a married person *if both parties embrace it and agree to it together.*
> 
> It's when one or both people don't agree on it and don't want to make the journey together that it becomes an issue.


I think someone people get lost in the child rearing years and lose their connection with each other and try and escape and feel its easier to move on with someone new rather than work on what they have or find a new relationship with the existing partner. In some cases to start I am sure it is easier especially if you are ready to change and your partner is still stuck in their own rut but me personally i think the entire point of marriage is to decide you love someone enough to fight for the relationship and get back to mutual happiness again. 

But despite what i write above I am super happy since i got divorced and feel rejuvenated and reborn so maybe it is better to just cut losses and move on :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

This thread could be related to the Feminist/women empowerment thread. I'm not saying good/bad, but these type of threads will get wifely varied responses. And that can be good.


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## Ynot

oldshirt said:


> That's simple - more options.
> 
> I'm going to admittedly stereotype a bit here to make a point, but an educated (and assumeably gainfully employed) woman is going to be more aware of her options and entitlements and responsibilities and she is going to be better able to afford her own legal representation and will be less financially dependent on a husband than someone without education/job training and other career options.
> 
> Additionally, someone who has been barefoot and pregnant and rearing offspring her whole adult life, may simply not be as aware of what all options are out there and may not be aware of the resources and assistance that would be available to her.


I agree. I have posted much the same thing many times before. I was just critiquing the article. It was mentioned in passing but not discussed. I think it is relevant to the discussion


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## minimalME

oldshirt said:


> It is understandable that people (men and women for that matter) would want to do a number of things for themselves after the kids are grown. Heck, in a number of ways I feel that way now and my kids are 13 and 16 and still in the house for a few more years.
> 
> But for that, the question must be asked - *what is it that these people want to do that requires a divorce in order to do it?*
> 
> Travel? - I don't recall ever buying plane tickets that forbade married people from flying?
> 
> Taking up golf, tennis, mountain climbing etc ? - I've seen people on the golf course wearing wedding rings and over heard them talking about their spouses.
> 
> Going back to school? - I haven't come across any educational institutions that bar married people from attending.
> 
> Getting a new job? - Employers are barred by labor laws to even enquire about someone's marital status in an interview let alone restricting a position to only single people.
> 
> Have sex with other people? Pretty much every city in the US with a population around 100K has a swingers club and there are countless swingers websites across the globe that embrace couples exploring their sexuality as a couple.
> 
> So my point is, if someone wants to travel, go back to school, get a new/different job, engage in new hobbies, or heck even have sex with other people - there's nothing that says one has to be single to do those things. They can all be done as a married person *if both parties embrace it and agree to it together.*
> 
> *It's when one or both people don't agree on it and don't want to make the journey together that it becomes an issue.*


Exactly. ^

My ex-husband and I valued different things. Living life _together_ just seemed impossible. The crux of it was that I was tired of the power struggles. 

I prefer life to be very simple - with copious amounts of sex. That _was not_ going to happen in my marriage.


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## Laurentium

"Divorce magazine"? Wow! 

The article describes the woman's half of the problem pretty accurately. I am guessing their readership is women.


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## PDXGuardsman

Bananapeel said:


> I think that article is missing some major points. I think usually the men are hesitant to file because they worry about the financial implications and the loss of seeing their children, since the family court system as a whole has the reputation of favoring women. I think if there was more gender equality in the court system then men would file just as often as women do.




I completely agree with your response to the main post...I’ve been divorced twice and remarried the 2nd wife a 2nd time...we have two children together...we are so different but I choose not to divorce her now because of the kids, the courts, and the financial implications...finances are huge knowing that the nice house we all live in would have to be sold...my kids would be forced into a different school district...the courts may grant joint custody, but that is not the norm in our state despite the laws...child support would relinquish each of us into renting decent apartments and a diet of rice and beans...and then to think of having to date again...like somehow the “grass will be greener” or something. I’ve heard people say that “the good is the enemy of the great,” but I’ll settle for “okay” in my situation and try to accept that the kids will benefit...perhaps my perspective will change as I get older...I’m 47...we were married 11 years the first time and coming on 3 this go around...i retired after 22 years in the military, I know I’ll be ok, but i want time with my kids...i want to pour the milk in their bowl of cereal every morning...to tuck them into bed at night...one thing for certain “change is an inside job” and divorce isn’t always an easy solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MovingForward

PDXGuardsman said:


> I completely agree with your response to the main post...I’ve been divorced twice and remarried the 2nd wife a 2nd time...we have two children together...we are so different but I choose not to divorce her now because of the kids, the courts, and the financial implications...finances are huge knowing that the nice house we all live in would have to be sold...my kids would be forced into a different school district...the courts may grant joint custody, but that is not the norm in our state despite the laws...child support would relinquish each of us into renting decent apartments and a diet of rice and beans...and then to think of having to date again...like somehow the “grass will be greener” or something. I’ve heard people say that “the good is the enemy of the great,” but I’ll settle for “okay” in my situation and try to accept that the kids will benefit...perhaps my perspective will change as I get older...I’m 47...we were married 11 years the first time and coming on 3 this go around...i retired after 22 years in the military, I know I’ll be ok, but i want time with my kids...i want to pour the milk in their bowl of cereal every morning...to tuck them into bed at night...one thing for certain “change is an inside job” and divorce isn’t always an easy solution.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just curious but how long were you divorced and what lead to the decision to get remarried? I am not picking fault just genuinely interested, I could not even consider dating let alone marrying my XW again, so assuming maybe you guys Divorced fast after and argumement but never really separated or both regretted it? 

I do miss putting my kids to bed each night and knowing about everything they do, 50% of there life I do not see and rarely hear about and another man is there.


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## arbitrator

*Because they know that they have the proverbial anatomical leg up in the American family court system!

And Gentlemen, best of luck in trying to displace them in that most heralded endeavor!*


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## PDXGuardsman

MovingForward said:


> Just curious but how long were you divorced and what lead to the decision to get remarried? I am not picking fault just genuinely interested, I could not even consider dating let alone marrying my XW again, so assuming maybe you guys Divorced fast after and argumement but never really separated or both regretted it?
> 
> 
> 
> I do miss putting my kids to bed each night and knowing about everything they do, 50% of there life I do not see and rarely hear about and another man is there.




We were divorced two years...the decision to remarry was easy...to easy...I wanted to be an active part of my kids’ lives and didn’t want to live alone...dating was a joke because there wasn’t anyone I met that I could see as being a 2nd mom to my kids...but I often doubt that it was the best decision today for me personally, but it definitely was the right decision for the kids! At the time we divorced I was the non-custodial parent and had my kids every other weekend and alternating holidays and 5 weeks in the summer...absolutely slammed by child support...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MEM2020

Agree with this and believe that men are socialized to protect their female partner.

Stoic + protector = Do not initiate divorce 

It often gets complicated over time because an ill treated H is more likely to cheat or emotionally check out. 





Ynot said:


> I would agree as well. I think as the courts alter rulings to be more reflective of modern reality and less about the past realities, we might see more men file in the future.
> But another aspect I think has gone unmentioned is that men are conditioned at an early age to suffer in silence and just make do with what they have. They lack that empowerment message than many women are getting these days. Not only are they not receiving any sort of message of empowerment, but they are being blamed or shamed instead.


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## ReturntoZero

Married but Happy said:


> I think the article is correct. The reason women file most, is for this reason (which seldom seems to be a motivation for men, IMO):
> 
> 
> 
> Men seem to have a different view of intimacy, and are more easily satisfied except when it comes to the quality and quantity of sex.


MBH,

Just out of curiosity... is nagging "reaching out for closeness?"


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## Married but Happy

ReturntoZero said:


> MBH,
> 
> Just out of curiosity... is nagging "reaching out for closeness?"


I think it can be, but it's certainly not a positive or effective method! But when everything may have failed ....


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## ReturntoZero

Married but Happy said:


> I think it can be, but it's certainly not a positive or effective method! But when everything may have failed ....


It's surprising how many women are so loathe to give up on a method that rarely - if ever - brings any sort of positive result.

Obviously, I'm speaking from some experience. But, it doesn't work. Yet, it's - apparently - the first tool in the arsenal.

Yeah, that's great, but you forgot about....


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## cc48kel

MovingForward said:


> I think someone people get lost in the child rearing years and lose their connection with each other and try and escape and feel its easier to move on with someone new rather than work on what they have or find a new relationship with the existing partner. In some cases to start I am sure it is easier especially if you are ready to change and your partner is still stuck in their own rut.
> 
> 
> Yes exactly!! I think older women do want the divorce because kids are gone and all that's left is her and him. She's been raising kids for all these years and he puts everything into work. So when they are together, there is nothing there- chemistry-connection--passion--hobbies--travel!! He could be stuck in a rut with work and home. Or she's just fed up because she is still doing the same things for him! So I think once divorced she just enjoys her own 'space' or a breather that she couldn't get at home. Perhaps a new relationship but I think many older women just like to be left alone to do their 'own thing'. Isn't there a lot of older single women? I'm pretty sure there are... Could be for that reason.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

cc48kel said:


> MovingForward said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think someone people get lost in the child rearing years and lose their connection with each other and try and escape and feel its easier to move on with someone new rather than work on what they have or find a new relationship with the existing partner. In some cases to start I am sure it is easier especially if you are ready to change and your partner is still stuck in their own rut.
> 
> 
> Yes exactly!! I think older women do want the divorce because kids are gone and all that's left is her and him. She's been raising kids for all these years and he puts everything into work. So when they are together, there is nothing there- chemistry-connection--passion--hobbies--travel!! He could be stuck in a rut with work and home. Or she's just fed up because she is still doing the same things for him! So I think once divorced she just enjoys her own 'space' or a breather that she couldn't get at home. Perhaps a new relationship but I think many older women just like to be left alone to do their 'own thing'. Isn't there a lot of older single women? I'm pretty sure there are... Could be for that reason.
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly there are Ws that think and/or get talked into rash action, thinking their only choice for a breather is to leave their H who's been shouldering a lot in their marriage as well. And never talks to their husband. And later they realize they made a mistake. Obviously not all before someone objects, but many. Those are tragic circumstances.
Click to expand...


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## MovingForward

PDXGuardsman said:


> We were divorced two years...the decision to remarry was easy...to easy...I wanted to be an active part of my kids’ lives and didn’t want to live alone...dating was a joke because there wasn’t anyone I met that I could see as being a 2nd mom to my kids...but I often doubt that it was the best decision today for me personally, but it definitely was the right decision for the kids! At the time we divorced I was the non-custodial parent and had my kids every other weekend and alternating holidays and 5 weeks in the summer...absolutely slammed by child support...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well I hope it all works out for you, it is a shame we get forced into positions to pick happiness between our own and our children. I thought the same and actually didnt think i would meet someone who i even liked but I did, she was not looking for anyone with kids and turns out she oves mine and they love her equally there is a bond already


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## 3Xnocharm

It has been my experience that most men just don't really put much value on a consistent connection with their spouse. As long as their basic needs are being met (shower, food, tv, maybe tinker at their hobby) and no one is nagging or harassing them, they are content. And they seem to think that if THEY are content, then so is everyone else. Establishing a real connection with their spouse just doesn't register as a priority. Women get tired of fighting for attention, so eventually give up, then eventually that turns into filing for divorce. 

I KNOW, this is not ALL men, but I am just sharing my thoughts from my own experiences. The men here at TAM seem to be unusually enlightened or attuned or something lol....


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## MovingForward

3Xnocharm said:


> It has been my experience that most men just don't really put much value on a consistent connection with their spouse. As long as their basic needs are being met (shower, food, tv, maybe tinker at their hobby) and no one is nagging or harassing them, they are content. And they seem to think that if THEY are content, then so is everyone else. Establishing a real connection with their spouse just doesn't register as a priority. Women get tired of fighting for attention, so eventually give up, then eventually that turns into filing for divorce.
> 
> I KNOW, this is not ALL men, but I am just sharing my thoughts from my own experiences. The men here at TAM seem to be unusually enlightened or attuned or something lol....


We like feedback from the other side:grin2: I didn't post to bash, very similar things came up in counseling sessions i have attended so thought good to share. 

You are correct i do think guys are generally more content with basics and not require much to be happy, we also do not all understand the female mind and thought process at times so unintentionally do things which are harmful to our relationships without understanding what we are doing. It actually takes me back to another one of my posts - http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...e-tight-sue-johnson-questions.html?highlight= this was a book my counselor recommended. 

The difference between the sexes is incredible in how we see and hear things, Man may hear and see nagging but his wife things she is crying for help and making it clearly known she is disconnecting from him, Husband may feel loved and great and think his wife feels same right after sex but she feels like she has done a chore and still feels like something is missing. 

So many factors it takes to make a relationship work, how your actions appear you may not have the same effect on your partner.


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## GusPolinski

Can’t take any article that uses the term “soul mate” seriously.


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## GusPolinski

MovingForward said:


> What I took away from it was Men and Woman want the same things mostly but ask for help and see, hear and translate things differently.
> 
> In my experience my XW wanted it all and wanted to give nothing and when I couldn't do it all she found someone else and got 50% of what she wanted. She wanted a provider(I paid all bills) she wanted a dad for kids(I spent most of my free time with children) she wanted to spend freely but have no debt and also a large savings account(I tried to balance constantly) she wanted free time(she got it) She wanted someone to help around the house(I hired a cleaner and did majority of the chores) and this left me with Zero time left to be a lover/husband etc I was so loaded with everything and she provided Zero support to me at all.
> 
> She got her wish money(Alimony, child support plus a 6 figure lump sum) she got her free time since she only has them 50% of the time and regularly pays babysitters on her own time, she has a boyfriend who she lives with and just get to enjoy dating with.


Why are you paying alimony if she’s living with her boyfriend?


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## MovingForward

GusPolinski said:


> Why are you paying alimony if she’s living with her boyfriend?


Because cohabiting doesn't count in my state they have to be married. I also made it non changeable since she agreed to a shorter duration and if it was changeable she could take me to court whenever and extent the duration.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Sounds about right. Women are constantly told marriage is a fairy tale, they plan their wedding and pick out their wedding dress before they are old enough to date. Then their husband woos her while dating with expensive trips, fun getaways and no worries. 

They get married, have kids, have bills, have a mortgage, and he is always working. Now wife is let down. The fairy tale is a lie. Its just a boring life with responsibilities! The fun getaways end and comfort ensues. Except she isn't happy. And husband would rather watch football than go shopping or talk about stupid gossip. Then her response is to withhold sex to get what she wants. So you are forced to go jerk off. Sucks but whatever, porn ain't so bad.

This is when she either checks out and leaves you or goes bangs some smooth talking Chad after which there is nothing to save. As a guy, you were comfortable and unsuspecting...you were told happy wife, happy life-- except she isn't really happy. You were providing for your family, being responsible, but she took your balls and you let her. The thrill is gone. Seen it a thousand times and lived it.


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## MovingForward

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Sounds about right. Women are constantly told marriage is a fairy tale, they plan their wedding and pick out their wedding dress before they are old enough to date. Then their husband woos her while dating with expensive trips, fun getaways and no worries.
> 
> They get married, have kids, have bills, have a mortgage, and he is always working. Now wife is let down. The fairy tale is a lie. Its just a boring life with responsibilities! The fun getaways end and comfort ensues. Except she isn't happy. And husband would rather watch football than go shopping or talk about stupid gossip. Then her response is to withhold sex to get what she wants. So you are forced to go jerk off. Sucks but whatever, porn ain't so bad.
> 
> This is when she either checks out and leaves you or goes bangs some smooth talking Chad after which there is nothing to save. As a guy, you were comfortable and unsuspecting...you were told happy wife, happy life-- except she isn't really happy. You were providing for your family, being responsible, but she took your balls and you let her. The thrill is gone. Seen it a thousand times and lived it.


You can tell you have lived it, I felt same also, my XW lived in a fantasy offered nothing but expected the world, I am lucky I know my weaknesses and actively aware of them and have and continue to work on them but she has no clue, she will make all the same mistakes again.


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## MrsHolland

Bananapeel said:


> I think that article is missing some major points. I think usually the men are hesitant to file because they worry about the financial implications and the loss of seeing their children, since the family court system as a whole has the reputation of favoring women. I think if there was more gender equality in the court system then men would file just as often as women do.


In Aus we do have gender equality in divorce however women still initiate divorce more than men.


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## NobodySpecial

Married but Happy said:


> I think it can be, but it's certainly not a positive or effective method! But when everything may have failed ....


One person's nagging is another person's attempt to share their thoughts and feelings when previous attempts have been ignored.


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## Bananapeel

MrsHolland said:


> In Aus we do have gender equality in divorce however women still initiate divorce more than men.


It's still an uneven financial hit to most men, if they are the high earners in the relationship. I coincidentally talked about this with my son's yesterday in regards to gender equality, feminism, and modern feminism. Basically, the thinking goes that today men and women have near equality in career options (although that doesn't mean they'll choose equal career paths and each person should live with the consequences of their decisions). Traditionally men choose careers that pay more so they are the high earners. When a man and woman get married they combine their income so the high earning men take a decrease in lifestyle during the term of the marriage and the women get a lifestyle upgrade. For simplification purposes, a man earning 80K and a woman earning 20K get married and live like they're each earning 50K, so the man has less buying power than when he was single and the woman has more buying power than she was single. Now after 10 years they get divorced and she's entitled to half of the marital equity. So basically she got an upgrade in lifestyle during the whole time she was married to him and in addition gets to walk out with assets that would have been his (actually he'd have more if he hadn't supplemented her lifestyle) had he not been married. The "fairest" thing to do is look at each person's financial contribution during the marriage and divide assets that way. So in the above example she'd get 20% of the assets to match her contribution and he'd get 80% to match his contribution. I know people will argue there are intangibles that need to be figured into the contribution like cooking, cleaning, etc. and that could be worked into an algorithm to figure out a better distribution. But, that is not the way the laws work in the US despite it technically being a "fair" way to distribute assets. I know I'd never consider marrying anyone again without a prenup, unless they were the high earner because it's not worth the potential financial loss when most people these days are willing to just live together in a married lifestyle without the legal marriage contract. One of my two biggest concerns about getting divorced was the financial loss, so I spoke with an accountant prior to filing.


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## purplesunsets

MEM2020 said:


> Agree with this and believe that men are socialized to protect their female partner.
> 
> Stoic + protector = Do not initiate divorce
> 
> It often gets complicated over time because an ill treated H is more likely to cheat or emotionally check out.


Aw. This warms my heart. It's honestly a double edged sword. Stoic= not showing feelings or expressing feelings to wife. Wife feels disconnected. Wife tries to initiate change but man doesn't know what else to do. Wife leaves. Of course, that's a simplistic version of ONE scenario...but it's very true.

My husband is very stoic and definitely sees himself as the protector. It's something I truly love about him. However, it's simply not enough to sustain a marriage. Connection is vital.


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## VermiciousKnid

I work in this field. The reason is that in western cultures women fare far better than men in divorce. They get the kids, house, alimony, child support, and half of hubby's 401K. I love representing women. That's always a much bigger payday for our firm than representing men. With men our goal is to get them out as even as possible but they never prosper from it.


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## WasDecimated

MovingForward said:


> What I took away from it was Men and Woman want the same things mostly but ask for help and see, hear and translate things differently.
> 
> In my experience my XW wanted it all and wanted to give nothing and when I couldn't do it all she found someone else and got 50% of what she wanted. She wanted a provider(I paid all bills) she wanted a dad for kids(I spent most of my free time with children) she wanted to spend freely but have no debt and also a large savings account(I tried to balance constantly) she wanted free time(she got it) She wanted someone to help around the house(I hired a cleaner and did majority of the chores) and this left me with Zero time left to be a lover/husband etc I was so loaded with everything and she provided Zero support to me at all.
> 
> She got her wish money(Alimony, child support plus a 6 figure lump sum) she got her free time since she only has them 50% of the time and regularly pays babysitters on her own time, she has a boyfriend who she lives with and just get to enjoy dating with.


I think we were married to the same woman!


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## sa58

Yes men are socialized to be the protector and provider to their 
wife and family. Often times in society and with women if they 
show their emotions they appear weak, and are thought to be the 
NICE GUY and get walk over. In western cultures women do get treated
better in divorce. I know a few lawyers and they will even tell you this
is true. I often wonder why divorce is not treated more like contract law.
It is a legal binding agreement between to adults. Who ever breaks the contract 
should not get everything.


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## MovingForward

Bananapeel said:


> It's still an uneven financial hit to most men, if they are the high earners in the relationship. I coincidentally talked about this with my son's yesterday in regards to gender equality, feminism, and modern feminism. Basically, the thinking goes that today men and women have near equality in career options (although that doesn't mean they'll choose equal career paths and each person should live with the consequences of their decisions). Traditionally men choose careers that pay more so they are the high earners. When a man and woman get married they combine their income so the high earning men take a decrease in lifestyle during the term of the marriage and the women get a lifestyle upgrade. For simplification purposes, a man earning 80K and a woman earning 20K get married and live like they're each earning 50K, so the man has less buying power than when he was single and the woman has more buying power than she was single. Now after 10 years they get divorced and she's entitled to half of the marital equity. So basically she got an upgrade in lifestyle during the whole time she was married to him and in addition gets to walk out with assets that would have been his (actually he'd have more if he hadn't supplemented her lifestyle) had he not been married. The "fairest" thing to do is look at each person's financial contribution during the marriage and divide assets that way. So in the above example she'd get 20% of the assets to match her contribution and he'd get 80% to match his contribution. I know people will argue there are intangibles that need to be figured into the contribution like cooking, cleaning, etc. and that could be worked into an algorithm to figure out a better distribution. But, that is not the way the laws work in the US despite it technically being a "fair" way to distribute assets. I know I'd never consider marrying anyone again without a prenup, unless they were the high earner because it's not worth the potential financial loss when most people these days are willing to just live together in a married lifestyle without the legal marriage contract. One of my two biggest concerns about getting divorced was the financial loss, so I spoke with an accountant prior to filing.


I like this post, it was a huge financial hit and one I probably wont ever recover from. I told my current girlfriend i could not risk another Divorce so if I would ever marry again it would involve a prenup, it is just too risky, lots of people say its unfair or preparing for the worst but I actually want to retire one day with some money and marriage is a coin flip on if you will last so simply a bad gamble and actually a bad and unfair contract to the higher earner. Every situation is unique and I do agree some marriages where wife stays at home and handles business or works lesser job to support husbands career result in him being more successful with her support and assistance, in my situation my wife wanted certain things, I waited for what I wanted to provide it for her and kids and her immediate plans, she contributed zero, was not supportive, decreased my earning potential by making it so hard for me to actually progress and left with everything I had worked on for us and our future to go spent it on another guy.


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## TheGoodGuy

sa58 said:


> I know a few lawyers and they will even tell you this
> is true.


 @VermiciousKnid confirmed this for you two posts above yours:



> I work in this field. The reason is that in western cultures women fare far better than men in divorce. They get the kids, house, alimony, child support, and half of hubby's 401K. I love representing women. That's always a much bigger payday for our firm than representing men. With men our goal is to get them out as even as possible but they never prosper from it.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

From what I can tell, the only time its initiated more by men is when there is infidelity. Women tend to stay with their cheating husbands at higher rates than men stay with their cheating wives.


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## MovingForward

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> From what I can tell, the only time its initiated more by men is when there is infidelity. Women tend to stay with their cheating husbands at higher rates than men stay with their cheating wives.


Interesting statistic, I never thought of this, I guess for a man the ultimate betrayal is sexual infidelity


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## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> What I took away from it was Men and Woman want the same things mostly but ask for help and see, hear and translate things differently.
> 
> In my experience my XW wanted it all and wanted to give nothing and when I couldn't do it all she found someone else and got 50% of what she wanted. She wanted a provider(I paid all bills) she wanted a dad for kids(I spent most of my free time with children) she wanted to spend freely but have no debt and also a large savings account(I tried to balance constantly) she wanted free time(she got it) She wanted someone to help around the house(I hired a cleaner and did majority of the chores) and this left me with Zero time left to be a lover/husband etc I was so loaded with everything and she provided Zero support to me at all.
> 
> She got her wish money(Alimony, child support plus a 6 figure lump sum) she got her free time since she only has them 50% of the time and regularly pays babysitters on her own time, she has a boyfriend who she lives with and just get to enjoy dating with.


In other words.... she had NOTHING to lose and EVERYTHING to gain.

If you ask me.... many are encouraged to D in situations as yours. She financially benefited from

D you. What was her "incentive" to stay?

It's like paying $20 for a scratch-off when you're guaranteed to win at least $25. WTH not!


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## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> In other words.... she had NOTHING to lose and EVERYTHING to gain.
> 
> If you ask me.... many are encouraged to D in situations as yours. She financially benefited from
> 
> D you. What was her "incentive" to stay?
> 
> It's like paying $20 for a scratch-off when you're guaranteed to win at least $25. WTH not!


For sure she could keep all the benefits and go explore and try some new D :grin2:


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## Chuck71

Ynot said:


> I would agree as well. I think as the courts alter rulings to be more reflective of modern reality and less about the past realities, we might see more men file in the future.
> But another aspect I think has gone unmentioned is that men are conditioned at an early age to suffer in silence and just make do with what they have. They lack that empowerment message than many women are getting these days. Not only are they not receiving any sort of message of empowerment, but they are being blamed or shamed instead.


It is not PC to be a white male.....

Today's white males are made to pay for their ancestor's misgivings.


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## sa58

My sons xw was a lawyer, she cheated.
He thought about staying but they both
agreed to divorce. They agreed on 50/50
custody of their child and he was not responsible
for any of her student debt. Sometimes I guess
it depends on the people involved in the relationship.
Or you can just not get married many couples
are doing that. But some still have kids and 
other debts.


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## Ynot

sa58 said:


> My sons xw was a lawyer, she cheated.
> He thought about staying but they both
> agreed to divorce. They agreed on 50/50
> custody of their child and he was not responsible
> for any of her student debt. Sometimes I guess
> it depends on the people involved in the relationship.
> Or you can just not get married many couples
> are doing that. But some still have kids and
> other debts.


And when those couples that don't get married go their separate ways, there is no divorce. So it appears as though the divorce rate is dropping when in reality. It is just being bypassed.


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## Chuck71

NobodySpecial said:


> One person's nagging is another person's attempt to share their thoughts and feelings when previous attempts have been ignored.


There's much better ways to convey your thoughts, feeling, emotions than.... nagging.

Yet we must recall the old adage... She can read her Hs mind.... and he should then, be able to read hers.

Funny thing.... female told me this years ago.


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## NobodySpecial

Chuck71 said:


> There's much better ways to convey your thoughts, feeling, emotions than.... nagging.


What would you suggest when you have said something several times and it goes ignored, not even responded to or even agreed with, then not acted on? I am pretty sure a whop with the cast iron skillet would get a person in trouble.


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## sa58

I agree with you ynot the divorce rate seems to be decreasing
but it is simply being bypassed. Marriage rate is decreasing as well.
But in all types of relationships I think there is still hurt and pain when they 
end.


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## Chuck71

NobodySpecial said:


> What would you suggest when you have said something several times and it goes ignored, not even responded to or even agreed with, then not acted on? I am pretty sure a whop with the cast iron skillet would get a person in trouble.


LOL.... my grandmother did that. It worked!

If one states their view of what needs to be done, what needs stopped, started, increased, decreased, etc

and they sit there emotionless like they do not care..... File for D. File, have separation in place and move

on with your life. In my state, 60 days, 90 with kids uncontested. Anyone can wait that long 

to start dating. States with one year +, different story. Too many times one spouse cheats....

to fill a void. At least file first and have a separation in place.


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