# Finally had the talk...dont know where this end up



## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Well after taking in what people posted yesterday on my post I finally made the move to go home tonight after work and get to the bottom of the issue. I feel numb to be honest. I just laid it out there, no more bs, no more promises or apologies just honest answers to me no matter how hurtful. I think in a way the wife was waiting for me to make her let it out.
After crying she admitted even though she loves me and the marriage she has been feeling guilty about our sex life. She admitted that she has gotten wrapped up in her romance-sex novels she reads day and night and the constant use of her vibrator in place of us having sex. 

She has always struggled with having orgasms thru PIV sex but never been an issue as we always got it thru foreplay or toys in the past. But she told me that with constant use of her vibrators she cant get to that point with hand stimulation even if she does it herself so she cant O when we are intimate. She has fallen for the sex she reads about but knows she wouldn't be able to even act out whats on the page but it consumes her. That she gets so lost that she is using her vibrator 3-4x a day (she works from home so easy with no one home) so when I get home she is done. I asked if she is wanting another man and says no as she loves me and no shape or size can make her climax POV but she yearns for it like the books. It is basically consuming her mind and leaving her not wanting to have the real thing.

She said she has been feeling so bad as if to burst knowing I was being denied. She asked me how I could go that long. And that she would stay in her bed clothes all day, burp and fart on the couch and when I went to bed made a move. She was hoping I would not want to so she didn't have to deny me.

I told her it hurts because I have always been mindful to get her off and try whatever she wanted. What can I do if she cant get herself off unless its reading and using the vibrator. I was told pretty much everything else is so good with us but she cant help the place she is in with her mind with sex. One night her and her sister went out for a girls night couple of months ago and talked to a guy that had the name of the guy in a book she was reading. It consumed her all night thinking if she had a night like the book. Even though in real life he could make her orgasm PIV either but it was thought. She told me she couldn't wait till I left for work that morning so she could get the vibrator out. 

So basically no idea what to do. Pretty much most of the marriage is fine except a key part...sex. What was once a satisfying sex life has been traded for a dreamworld which I don't know how to achieve. 

Sorry for the ramble just at a loss for everything. Has anyone experienced this or something like it.


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## soulsearch (Aug 2, 2013)

your wife needs professional help. this is an addiction that she needs to learn to break. for her, the porn is the same as alcohol to an alcoholic.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

What's missing from her tearful exchange is any promise to make any effort what-so-ever to change things. Like most other explanations, excuses, etc, from these sexless "partners", the end result is nothing is going to change and you're supposed to accept that. No mention that she has destroyed her vibrator or her romance novels. Let me guess...you're the primary bread-winner?


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## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

She had a lot of words and platitudes. She was a little short on concrete action. Here is the key:



Eagle3 said:


> I was told pretty much everything else is so good with us but she cant help the place she is in with her mind with sex.


This is a cop out - and she is relying on you being the kind sweet husband you have always been, and accepting her awful dilemma. And she loves you so you should understand. After all, she said she felt bad, right? 

I believe you when you said she felt guilty, because I doubt she is an awful person. But she is avoiding and minimizing this. She admits to seeking orgasm upwards of 3-4 times a day, so she has a sex drive, just not with you. She admits to actively finding ways to denying you and hoping you won't initiate, so she's worthy of having her needs met but you aren't. She admits to getting turned on by strange men just because she associates them with an erotic image in her mind (from the book). In other words, she attracted to other men but not to you. Frankly, Eagle, if all this doesn't flavor your disappointment in your wife with a moderate amount of anger, you're doing it wrong.

It's not even as though she is having sex with you, then scooping up her toy for a few more go-times during the day to satisfy herself. That would create a different set of issues but least then she'd be considering your needs. As it is now, she's very selfishly explained that while she will absorb all the care and adoration you dish out, she is unwilling to love you back in the way you most want.

Now what is she going to do about it? More important, what are you going to do if/when she does nothing to change?

Just in little-old-Convection's opinion, I think you need to pull back a bit. You've laid out your case, she cannot deny she is aware there is a problem. Don't believe what she says, believe how she acts. In addition to the books suggested on your other thread, I recommend this:

The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your r

Pull back. Don't make yourself as available. That is not a recommendation to cheat on her - but to find things that make you happy. Instead of fetching her drinks and rubbing her feet, you need to be out, with friends, or doing hobbies, or get politically active, or do whatever gives you internal happiness. If she is unwilling to meet your needs, start doing it yourself. Do it with a smile on your face and make no apologies. She is not meeting your needs, so you are. You are worthy of it.

One of the maxims around this board is that you can't control the other person, only yourself. So you need to figure out what you want and what you are willing to accept, then act accordingly. If you don't nothing is going to change.

Good luck.


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## Cyclist (Aug 22, 2012)

Sorry your going through this. Most of us on here would love our SO to be more sexually active. Yours is going crazy every day but not letting you get involved. Gotta be frustrating.

All great advice on here Eagle and I really agree with Convection

Now that things are out in the open if she does not make an immediate change then I would start pulling back. It will seem selfish at first but work through that and find something you like to do and get involved.

I would also suggest she gets out of the house. Can she work mobile? Its tough to read romance novels and use a vibe at Starbucks. If she can work from a different spot for a while it may help.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> After crying she admitted even though she loves me and the marriage she has been feeling guilty about our sex life. She admitted that she has gotten wrapped up in her romance-sex novels she reads day and night and the constant use of her vibrator in place of us having sex.


Similar to a cheater, feeling guilty enough to feel bad about it, but not enough to stop doing it.



> _She has always struggled with having orgasms thru PIV sex but never been an issue as we always got it thru foreplay or toys in the past. But she told me that with constant use of her vibrators she cant get to that point with hand stimulation even if she does it herself so she cant O when we are intimate._


Here's a different idea. Maybe try anal sex instead? Unless she has been using her vibrator there too, it's very unlikely she has become numb to that, and it would allow you to approach the problem from a totally different direction (both literally and figuratively).


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> What's missing from her tearful exchange is any promise to make any effort what-so-ever to change things. Like most other explanations, excuses, etc, from these sexless "partners", the end result is nothing is going to change and you're supposed to accept that. No mention that she has destroyed her vibrator or her romance novels. Let me guess...you're the primary bread-winner?


:iagree:

Another sit down talk is in the offer I feel. This time its you that takes the ehad line. Put to her MC and specialist help for her addiction. 
Make it clear that as far as your concerned there is no where to go until this is done. 

also have a look at what shes reading. see if there is something there that needs addressing from yourside before you go MC.
That way you can honestly say youve looked at what turn on is, youve tried to replicate it to help and now its her turn to seek support and make an effort.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm having a hard time with this. I read a lot of erotica, a lot! I write my own stuff plus a edit for others on occasion. Maybe because I write it, I read it more critically? The romance/erotica genre is sometimes so absurd the way men are portrayed, I not only don't enjoy it I can't imagine any woman actually falling for it!

There was a time when my marriage was in the toilet, my life was filled with stress, my unhappiness in general was overwhelming, and I became almost addicted to erotica/masturbation. Closing real life out of my brain was the only thing I wanted. Seeking mindless release that was just for me, not for the H, the kids, the home, extended family, it was a powerful draw.

If, during the time mentioned above, someone had known and challenged me to stop, I'm not sure I could have.

What is very positive is that your wife admitted to all of this. What is also positive is that she is now recognizing how her behavior is hurting the marriage. She may not be recognizing ALL of her behavior, but in time I believe she will get there. That really is a very good sign!

I would suggest you and your wife discuss ways she can include you in her masturbation. Perhaps even requesting that a few days per week, she not masturbate unless you are also in the room with her. Of course this goes on the honor system so she HAS to buy into the need for this.

Also, you need to read the same stuff she is reading. Depending on how she is reading it, she should highlight some passages she finds particularly stimulating and would like to see them incorporated into your sexual routine.

As you read the same material, find passages that describe an unrealistic dynamic between the two lovers. Try to find more unrealistic qualities about the woman than the man. Although that may be hard because one of the things these romances always highlight is a relatively normal woman, and lots of times that includes normal b!tchiness that would turn normal people off but the heroin thinks it's cute ugh!

What you will find is that the heroine alway always refers to body parts in glowing terms. A "pretty" pvssy, a luscious tlt, a sumptuous ass... Men IRL, don't normally use words like that ever let alone always! This IS something men can do better at.

I think another possible avenue to bring your wife back to reality is for you 2 to write an erotic story yourselves, to each other, for each other.

I'm sorry I'm coming late to this game. I didn't read your other thread, only this one. The bottom line is that your wife has to bring you in on this fantasy world she is building. I don't think it will work to try to get her to leave that world or tear it down. If you become a part of it, you two together can bring some rationality into it, and rationality is exactly what your wife is missing right now.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Eagle3 said:


> She has always struggled with having orgasms thru PIV sex but never been an issue as we always got it thru foreplay or toys in the past. But she told me that with constant use of her vibrators she cant get to that point with hand stimulation even if she does it herself so she cant O when we are intimate. She has fallen for the sex she reads about but knows she wouldn't be able to even act out whats on the page but it consumes her. That she gets so lost that she is using her vibrator 3-4x a day (she works from home so easy with no one home) so when I get home she is done. I asked if she is wanting another man and says no as she loves me and no shape or size can make her climax POV but she yearns for it like the books. It is basically consuming her mind and leaving her not wanting to have the real thing.


So what is she going to do about this? The porn and the vibrator probably need to go. I suggest a sex therapist.

But I would note another big problem. She says she does not want another man, but:



> One night her and her sister went out for a girls night couple of months ago and talked to a guy that had the name of the guy in a book she was reading. It consumed her all night thinking if she had a night like the book. Even though in real life he could make her orgasm PIV either but it was thought. She told me she couldn't wait till I left for work that morning so she could get the vibrator out.


She was fantasizing about that guy she met. That is a red flag, as it is a first step to realizing her fantasies with another man.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I'm sorry I'm coming late to this game. I didn't read your other thread, only this one. The bottom line is that your wife has to bring you in on this fantasy world she is building. I don't think it will work to try to get her to leave that world or tear it down. If you become a part of it, you two together can bring some rationality into it, and rationality is exactly what your wife is missing right now.


Anon, I truly love your advice most of the time. But I have to ask would this advice apply if a man was ignoring his wife so that he could masturbate to porn on the computer? Because I don't see a whole lot of difference in what is happening here.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

A lot of women can't O from just PIV sex. They need clitoral stimulation. However, relying on a vibrator is desensitizing. I have no doubt that she probably can't O from manual stimulation anymore, if she's using her vibrator that frequently. In order to get back to a point where manual will do it for her, she's got to give up the vibrators entirely. And it may take quite a while, months even, for her to be able to O without them.

I think your first step, though, is to have another talk with your wife. Make it clear that you love her and really want to have a sex life that is mutually fulfilling for both of you. Also make it very clear to her that a healthy sex life with your wife is so important that the lack of it is endangering your marriage. After that, briefly run over the points she shared with you so you are both clear on what she believes the problem is. 

Then, ask her what concrete steps she plans to take to correct the situation. Those steps might be a visit with a sex therapist, MC, IC, getting rid of all the toys, limiting or eliminating the novels, scheduling sex, working outside the home so her days are more filled, etc. But they need to be concrete, actionable, steps rather than vague promises to "change" or "do better". It's fine to suggest the steps that you'd like to see and to offer to make changes that she needs that would help her with this. But make sure she understands that the problem, as she's presented it, is one she will have to take the steps to correct. And that you fully expect her to _do so_. 

Also, it might not hurt to make sure you and your wife are getting about 15 hours of good quality alone time each week. Focus that time on doing fun, date-like, things, talking to one another, being affectionate and flirtatious, being sexual with one another. Essentially, use that time to treat one another as if you're a happily dating couple, rather than married people who are sort of tired of dealing with each other.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Anon, I truly love your advice most of the time. But I have to ask would this advice apply if a man was ignoring his wife so that he could masturbate to porn on the computer? Because I don't see a whole lot of difference in what is happening here.


No, it wouldn't be the same for a man. Women experience their sexual selves very very differently from men. BUT what is the same for both is the need to be desired. A man can build his fantasy world of the hot porn chick being driven mad with lust and attacking him for his body. Women rarely experience that from porn or pictures. It's why women flock to romance and erotica, the desire is built on the page for them, they don't have to imagine a romantic hero who opens doors and talks about her pretty pvssy. A woman needs the whole picture, the scene has to be set, the dynamics present.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> No, it wouldn't be the same for a man. Women experience their sexual selves very very differently from men. BUT what is the same for both is the need to be desired. A man can build his fantasy world of the hot porn chick being driven mad with lust and attacking him for his body. Women rarely experience that from porn or pictures. It's why women flock to romance and erotica, the desire is built on the page for them, they don't have to imagine a romantic hero who opens doors and talks about her pretty pvssy. A woman needs the whole picture, the scene has to be set, the dynamics present.


I think you are missing my point, so let me approach it from a different way. If a woman posted that her husband was refusing sex, masturbating to porn 2-3 times daily and complained that without it, he could not orgasm with her, would your advice have been for her to join his porn fantasy world and become part of it? 

I don't think it would be (rightfully so), so I am confused as to why he is expected to join her's.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> No, it wouldn't be the same for a man. Women experience their sexual selves very very differently from men. BUT what is the same for both is the need to be desired. A man can build his fantasy world of the hot porn chick being driven mad with lust and attacking him for his body. Women rarely experience that from porn or pictures. It's why women flock to romance and erotica, the desire is built on the page for them, they don't have to imagine a romantic hero who opens doors and talks about her pretty pvssy. A woman needs the whole picture, the scene has to be set, the dynamics present.


I disagree the real lore to porn is the desire of the actress to please the man. not the hot skinny big boob fake woman.

just like the lore to romance novels is the chase the woman keeps pushing him away but he restlessly keep up the desire until she caves and then of course he's just the right size and has amazing skills and know just what she wants.

they seem very similar to me.

I think just like the advice given to men ....quit the porn and let your natural sexuality come back and start dating and appreciation of each other to try to reconnect is the best plan for both genders.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

and add the right of first refusal to the equation.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Thanks to everyone that has responded its been helpful to hear from an outside prespective especially a woman's. Obviously i have a lot to figure out. I dont know if this was the right move or not but i stepped away from having more of a discussion last night as the hurt, anger, was getting to me and i didnt want to say things that could be damaging in long term if that is to even happen. What confuses me is that I have am highly sexual person (not overbearing) that is up to have sex morning, noon, and night. I mean we have friends come over to the house and to hear some of the wives complain that their husbands cant be bothered or touch them in a long time she always says how hard that must be for the wives but she is doing that to me. We went to having a fullfilling sex life to overtime nothing and not from a lack of me wanting or giving her needs attended to in the bedroom but due to novels and toys. 

To answer some of the questions that were asked. I am very active with hobbies and social with a ton of friends. One thing we always give each other is time to spend with others and together as a gorup. Granted i have alot more friends etc but i dont abuse that option. And i am no Mr. Perfect i am sure there are things i do that annoy her too but that is marriage in general or any relationship. I travel for work quite a bit and know that lead to some weight gain living in hotels for periods of time. I got a belly that i was not happy with, but i commiteed to the gym and lost 25lbs and am pretty much look like i did before we even dated. She actually gained about 30lbs herself and has done nothing about it. I dont care and still desired her the same so i cant think she got lost in that world due to me gaining weight.

The other reply is yes we have always used the toys in our sex lives and masturbated together etc...and her not having orgams striclty thru PIV was never a problem. But for some reason now after these things she imagines in her book something in the back or her mnnd is triggering frustration she cant get that.

Again thanks for all the advice. I def think she has to want to put the toys away for a bit and get back to allowing a real emiotional sex life. In some sick way i almost wish there was a problem with another man than i could see what the difference or reason could be. Its hard thiking i am getting shut out of the bedroom with made up characters


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Eagle3 said:


> Thanks to everyone that has responded its been helpful to hear from an outside prespective especially a woman's. Obviously i have a lot to figure out. I dont know if this was the right move or not but i stepped away from having more of a discussion last night as the hurt, anger, was getting to me and i didnt want to say things that could be damaging in long term if that is to even happen.


Making these shorter conversations can be a good thing. Most of us are not made to have intense, three hour discussions over such volatile issues. Breaking them up into much smaller chunks makes listening and processing easier.

By bringing it up the next day (and the days that follow), it also enforces that this is a real problem that is not just going away. You need to keep raising this (in the short term) to make clear that this is a big issue to you.


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## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

soulsearch said:


> your wife needs professional help. this is an addiction that she needs to learn to break. for her, the porn is the same as alcohol to an alcoholic.


Difficult to say if it's addiction or not, but your wife is living in her Fantasy World... at least, part-time...

The irony is I can bet that erotic books writers (practically all ladies) never experienced what they described in their books... It's all imagination - fantasy world... 

OK, back to the real world... If you wife wants to have a real - not imaginary husband - probably, she needs to have real - not imaginary - sex?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I think you are missing my point, so let me approach it from a different way. If a woman posted that her husband was refusing sex, masturbating to porn 2-3 times daily and complained that without it, he could not orgasm with her, would your advice have been for her to join his porn fantasy world and become part of it?
> 
> I don't think it would be (rightfully so), so I am confused as to why he is expected to join her's.


My understanding is that she can't orgasm without a vibrator and that is common for women. She also doesn't orgasm through PIV, and that is extremely common for women. 

I don't think vibrator dependent women are 100% responding to the actual physical sensation alone. Holding the vibrator in place and allowing it to do it's job mimics the sensation of a lover creating sensation much more so than a woman rubbing her own clit. One is passive the other is active.

I don't think it's a big deal that she requires a vibrator to get off, but I can see how this would be very hurtful to her husband. I think if she learns to associate her husbands presence with climax, she will become less dependent on the vibrator over time.

Again, because women are different, I think the bigger issue here is that her full sexual arousal is only happening as a result of erotic romance. THAT, IMO, is the big problem.

Maybe the underlying issue, self rejecting thoughts during real sex due to real body image or self esteem, is the same for both genders. I just know from my own perspective and experience that creating the perfect erotic world WITH your partner leads to more open and more satisfying sex than relearning to settle for a reality that is no longer erotically satisfying. 

Keeping in mind that women tend to need newness more frequently than men do, it just makes sense that they create that new erotic picture that she is looking for together.



chillymorn said:


> I disagree the real lore to porn is the desire of the actress to please the man.


That is exactly the point I made...


Anon Pink said:


> A man can build his fantasy world of the hot porn chick being *driven mad with lust and attacking him for his body*.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Aerith said:


> *The irony is I can bet that erotic books writers (practically all ladies) never experienced what they described in their books... It's all imagination - fantasy world... *


That's exactly IT!!!

This is why, IMO, women should watch porn to gain an understanding of the kinds of moves and sounds that turn men on. And why men should read romance to gain an understanding of the kinds of moves and word choices that turn a woman on.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I think one of the best analogies I ever saw was right here on this website.

Porn (and in this case romance novels) are to sex, what professional wrestling is to fighting.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> My understanding is that she can't orgasm without a vibrator and that is common for women. She also doesn't orgasm through PIV, and that is extremely common for women.
> 
> I don't think vibrator dependent women are 100% responding to the actual physical sensation alone. Holding the vibrator in place and allowing it to do it's job mimics the sensation of a lover creating sensation much more so than a woman rubbing her own clit. One is passive the other is active.
> 
> I don't think it's a big deal that she requires a vibrator to get off, but I can see how this would be very hurtful to her husband. I think if she learns to associate her husbands presence with climax, she will become less dependent on the vibrator over time.


I think that is ignoring the original post. Though she did not have orgasms from PIV in the past, they were able to do so with foreplay. She is now saying that is no longer possible. form the original post:



> But she told me that with constant use of her vibrators she cant get to that point with hand stimulation even if she does it herself so she cant O when we are intimate.


So from her own words, the her vibrator use is affecting her. It is a big deal because she can't O without it.



> Again, because women are different, I think the bigger issue here is that her full sexual arousal is only happening as a result of erotic romance. THAT, IMO, is the big problem.


I don't disagree, but how is this different than a man watching porn videos?



> Maybe the underlying issue, self rejecting thoughts during real sex due to real body image or self esteem, is the same for both genders. I just know from my own perspective and experience that creating the perfect erotic world WITH your partner leads to more open and more satisfying sex than relearning to settle for a reality that is no longer erotically satisfying.
> 
> Keeping in mind that women tend to need newness more frequently than men do, it just makes sense that they create that new erotic picture that she is looking for together.


That sounds all fine and good, but I am still at a loss as to why the advice regarding her unhealthy porn obsession is for him to got on the same train and join in.

I agree that they should work together to create a great sexual relationship. But right now, she is not. Rather, she is obsessed with fantasy, masturbating compulsively to the point were she cannot O without a vibrator, actively avoids her husband's sexual advances, and has started focusing her sexual energy on another man (albeit at the very beginning stages). 

I don't see that they can build something until she deals with her porn addiction. Once she does, they can then start to work together to create their own fantasies. But to expect him to try and join her is not more workable than expecting a wife to become a porn start for her addicted husband.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> That's exactly IT!!!
> 
> This is why, IMO, women should watch porn to gain an understanding of the kinds of moves and sounds that turn men on. And why men should read romance to gain an understanding of the kinds of moves and word choices that turn a woman on.


Anon Pink, wow i have to admit this was eye opening and something i never have thought of. I consider myself open minded to stuff but i have never read these novels. I think it stems from my ignorance of what they are. I know they are highly evolved but in my mind they remind me of my youth seeing my mom leave her books laying aroud with a guy looking like Fabio on the cover. 

But all the same good to hear becasue I have used dirty talk but taking a step back it prob comes across more from a porn perspective than words being used in erotica novels. Of coure i never was told to change that approach. Something to think about in general though, thanks.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. My advice is based on my own experience with my own sexual deviations. I never had vibrator dependency but did have a dependency on a passive form of masturbation and it wasn't until I learned to incorporate that action into our lovemaking that I was able to make the transition away from that to him. 

Secondly, I've never joined threads regarding a mans porn addiction because I have no experience and no knowledge in that area. I don't think a mans chronic porn/masturbation is exactly the same as a woman's chronic romance/masturbation simply because men and women are vastly different.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I guess we will have to agree to disagree. My advice is based on my own experience with my own sexual deviations. I never had vibrator dependency but did have a dependency on a passive form of masturbation and it wasn't until I learned to incorporate that action into our lovemaking that I was able to make the transition away from that to him.


I think this ignores the physical aspect due to the vibrator. As of now, they can't achieve the goals of fully sexual experience without a vibrator being used. Her fantasies of a man doing these things to her, in her own words, are now an impossibility. They cannot create those fantasies for her.



> Secondly, I've never joined threads regarding a mans porn addiction because I have no experience and no knowledge in that area. I don't think a mans chronic porn/masturbation is exactly the same as a woman's chronic romance/masturbation simply because men and women are vastly different.


Sorry, but I think you word choice is telling. Him viewing videos and masturbating to the determinate of their sex life is readily described as porn, with all that entails, while her's is "romance" with all that entails. 

We will disagree. Her addiction is the problem. She is even taking steps to direct her sexual energies to other men. I don't see how catering to this behavior leads to positive results.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Also i wanted to add to some of the posters that have given me advice, I have downloaded some of the books that were recommended before. My head is spinning so much the last 24hrs it would be good to let my mind wander. I dont know how much i can get accomplished this weekend with dealing with this as this weekend is our weekend with her daughter and she is having friends stay over so i dont want show tension in the house (she gets that enough at her fathers) and i leave Monday morning for work for the week. 

I hate leaving with his just being opened and bad timing on my part, but after finally opening up on this site and getting the helpful feedback given to me, when i got home last night and saw her reading i just could let it sit another minute.

I feel better though i finally brought it out to the open, just feel like crap that i am in this postion. I KNOW this is wrong to to think, but i am blaming myself as to how this happended to us. I know it is her that put us here and i am not like this usually. I think the thought knowing i have been replaced sexually is messing my head. One thing i dont have much experience with in relationships is trouble with a sex life and to have this being married is tough.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I sounds like she has a sex addiction... to her vibrator.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

There is a huge difference between the eroticism found in visual porn and the eroticism found in erotic romance. The huge difference is the relationship the eroticism is based on. In visual porn, the relationship between the man and the woman is based solely on lust and desire. They both want to get naked and have sex. That is the reason they both are present. Whether she is chasing him or he is chasing her, the driving motivation is sex. 

In romantic erotica, the desire is built through relationship interactions long before anyone takes their clothes off. The two characters are slowly building erotic tension, so the reader is slowly becoming engrossed in the story as she becomes aroused imagining herself being chased/courted/desired. Sex comes about as a crescendo, not as the reason for their very presence. Also a common theme in romance erotica is that the woman is described as only slightly better than average, or very curvy, while the man is always described as BIG everywhere. Whereas in visual porn, both characters are not exactly average in physical attributes. This difference speaks to the common problem of a woman's body image interfering with her ability to feel desired and cherished. This is why less women enjoy porn than men. Women have body image problems that men don't seem to suffer from nearly as often as women do.

Eagle 3, I'm sure your head is spinning right now. You've been given a lot of constructive advice. I suggest you pick one or two actionable suggestions that sit right with you and leave them with your wife before you leave town next week. Give her some time to think and process and maybe figure things out on her own. Make a plan to talk again when you get back.

I have to say first right of refusal seems like the logical way to reconnect sex with each other. How hot would that be if she has to have you on the phone with her as she masturbates with her vibrator while listening to you tell her all about her "pretty little pvssy"....?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Perhaps reading erotica together? Or have her read to you, with you in control of the vibe?

Do you know what genre she likes to read. Personally I read a lot of erotica and I've found that there are a ton of different genres. Sexual slavery, swinging, domination, cheating.....the list goes on and on. And I think your approach probably needs to depend on what it is she's getting off to.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> Also i wanted to add to some of the posters that have given me advice, I have downloaded some of the books that were recommended before. My head is spinning so much the last 24hrs it would be good to let my mind wander. I dont know how much i can get accomplished this weekend with dealing with this as this weekend is our weekend with her daughter and she is having friends stay over so i dont want show tension in the house (she gets that enough at her fathers) and i leave Monday morning for work for the week.
> 
> I hate leaving with his just being opened and bad timing on my part, but after finally opening up on this site and getting the helpful feedback given to me, when i got home last night and saw her reading i just could let it sit another minute.
> 
> I feel better though i finally brought it out to the open, just feel like crap that i am in this postion. I KNOW this is wrong to to think, but i am blaming myself as to how this happended to us. I know it is her that put us here and i am not like this usually. I think the thought knowing i have been replaced sexually is messing my head. One thing i dont have much experience with in relationships is trouble with a sex life and to have this being married is tough.


In the future after you have worked out some of the issue and since you travel a lot, how about taking one of her novels with you and reading it to her over skype while you get to watch her play. I am suggesting this because while you are away it will be hard for to control not taking care of her self.

This also assumes you mind the NSA having a copy. lol

Keep your faces off the screen.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Always Learning said:


> In the future after you have worked out some of the issue and since you travel a lot, how about taking one of her novels with you and reading it to her over skype while you get to watch her play. I am suggesting this because while you are away it will be hard for to control not taking care of her self.
> 
> This also assumes you mind the NSA having a copy. lol
> 
> Keep your faces off the screen.


:rofl:
If there's an audience, you have to put in more effort!


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Well, if she lays off the vibrator it is reasonable to believe she will gain more sensitivity to other routes to orgasm. I recently went through this myself after 10 years of solely relying on a very strong vibrator.

The truth is that vibrators are easy - physically and mentally. The game turns much more dicey (this is my experience) using other routes but the sensitivity does return after a break from the strong stimulous.

The erotic.literature is also easy. The male characters in these novels know instinctually what to do, often making clueless, innocent females climax and become insatiable sex godesses without the women having to take any action at all. Totally different from the real life of trying yo make this **** work between two.regular people who do real life things and fit in sex when they can.

I have nothing against the literature - Ive read my fair share of erotic literature and I have watched my fair share if porn as well. I do think they are roughly the same thing. They provide the same stimulous and escape in any way. Some can use responsibly and others become sucked in to the detriment of their relationship.

In any case - I hope your wife will take a break for now and concentrate on her real life relationship.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Part of her excuse was her difficulty achieving orgasm. So, that's what sex is for her? A means to an orgasm? Intimacy isn't important? Her husband's feelings and needs are irrelevant? If she doesn't feel hunger, she'll happily watch her husband starve? This is more than about a sex "addiction". This is a woman making chronic, selfish choices and showing routine indifference to the needs of someone she dares to claim as her partner.


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## MrHappy (Oct 23, 2008)

Confiscate it!! Tell her if she is good during the day she can have it back for one O while you watch her.

(What/what type) erotica is she reading about? Find out what is turning her on. Most people will stick to stories with certain kinks.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Miss Scarlett thanks for your thoughts good to hear from people that have gone thru the same thing somewhat. If you dont mind me asking going thru this how much stress did this cause your husband and how did he handle it? Were you doing this for an escape etc...? That is the main issue with me is that up until this became a problem our sex life was pretty good. I could make her orgasm and made sure that she was satisfied. It wasnt till after she got lost in her books and vibrator did our sex life suffer and her frustration she couldnt O during our time together. To me its crazy that she shut off sex with orgasms with her husband to little or bad sex after this involvement. Also she knows me and knows i would have had no problem getting invlovled with acting out things in the book or having me do things that are done in them etc...Since you have expereince any suggestions on how i should go about getting this turned around?

unbelievable- you also hit on something i had brought up last night with her. It wasnt just the sex it was the little things, gone were the simple hugs, laying together on the couch, kissing. That only happend when i initiated and after awhile i backed off. Its crazy how quicky rejection can go by so fast.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I disagree that confiscating her security blanket will lead to great sex between these two because she will be resentful. However, I am hoping she will voluntarily choose to take a break from the compultion.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Anon Pink said:


> My understanding is that she can't orgasm without a vibrator and that is common for women. She also doesn't orgasm through PIV, and that is extremely common for women.
> 
> I don't think vibrator dependent women are 100% responding to the actual physical sensation alone. Holding the vibrator in place and allowing it to do it's job mimics the sensation of a lover creating sensation much more so than a woman rubbing her own clit. One is passive the other is active.
> 
> ...


and conversely the reel lore of erotica is the desire of the man to put up with all her bull$hit and still want to bang her and of course he know exactly what she needs to have the strongest mind blowing orgasm in the world

same same in my book both are building unreasonable expectations compared to real life.

especially if your denying your partner for life sex so you can masturbate to fantasy. wouldn't it be much better if both partners opened up to what they like and try to please each other????? seems simple enough to me just seems like there are so many who don't get this concept......oh well thats life i guess.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

My situation differs from yours - no less hurtful to my husband in the long run. I have not shunned my husband, he has had the sex he wanted and has gotten oral over the past 18 years. He hasn't been denied. 

The way I have hurt him is that I had never had an orgasm with him and after 8 years started faking and using a vibrator by myself and thought this was good enough. He was happy and I could get off as much as I wanted to.

But then in march this became unbearable and I confessed to him that I had never had an orgasm with him. (In my defence he had never given me oral or tried to stimulate me manually or with toys.) So now the whole thing is not good. What I did was wrong and hurtful and I am nursing plenty of resentlment that have built up over 18 years. In a nutshell.


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## MrHappy (Oct 23, 2008)

MissScarlett said:


> I disagree that confiscating her security blanket will lead to great sex between these two because she will be resentful. However, I am hoping she will voluntarily choose to take a break from the compultion.


Well I am trying to read between the lines. I think from what she said there is a lot more not said and she might not even be able to express it. It isn't like she won't get it back or used on her, just not instantly. Basically a form of edging. Also it changes her outlook that he is providing any relief if it is regular sex, him using the toy on her, or her using it while he watches.


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## Lordhavok (Mar 14, 2012)

You do know that they make c*ck rings with vibrator bullets on them. But theres a few more issues here.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Lordhavok said:


> You do know that they make c*ck rings with vibrator bullets on them. But theres a few more issues here.


We have one of those. Didn't work, couldn't get it in the right spot for me and of course, once he moved game over. It was fun for him though...


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> My situation differs from yours - no less hurtful to my husband in the long run. I have not shunned my husband, he has had the sex he wanted and has gotten oral over the past 18 years. He hasn't been denied.
> 
> The way I have hurt him is that I had never had an orgasm with him and after 8 years started faking and using a vibrator by myself and thought this was good enough. He was happy and I could get off as much as I wanted to.
> 
> But then in march this became unbearable and I confessed to him that I had never had an orgasm with him. (In my defence he had never given me oral or tried to stimulate me manually or with toys.) So now the whole thing is not good. What I did was wrong and hurtful and I am nursing plenty of resentlment that have built up over 18 years. In a nutshell.



Thanks Miss Scarlett for the response and didnt mean to pry into your issue. Sorry to hear that and hope it gets better for you. Although no offense i cant imagine going that long in a marriage not giving my wife oral or stimulated intimacy in the bedroom. Talking to people here really makes you think how much goes on in relationships etc...


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I'm having a hard time with this. I read a lot of erotica, a lot! I write my own stuff plus a edit for others on occasion. Maybe because I write it, I read it more critically? The romance/erotica genre is sometimes so absurd the way men are portrayed, I not only don't enjoy it I can't imagine any woman actually falling for it!
> 
> There was a time when my marriage was in the toilet, my life was filled with stress, my unhappiness in general was overwhelming, and I became almost addicted to erotica/masturbation. Closing real life out of my brain was the only thing I wanted. Seeking mindless release that was just for me, not for the H, the kids, the home, extended family, it was a powerful draw.
> 
> ...


Anon, don't you normally quote NMMNG? Isn't this a 'nice guy' approach? (bolded)

OP, you can't 'nice' someone out of an addiction. I am not saying a 2x4 is called for here, but please set some limits that are based on both your needs.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> I have nothing against the literature - Ive read my fair share of erotic literature and I have watched my fair share if porn as well. I do think they are roughly the same thing. They provide the same stimulous and escape in any way. Some can use responsibly and others become sucked in to the detriment of their relationship.
> 
> In any case - I hope your wife will take a break for now and concentrate on her real life relationship.


:iagree:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Jung_admirer said:


> Anon, don't you normally quote NMMNG? Isn't this a 'nice guy' approach? (bolded)
> 
> .


No, not normally because I haven't read it. I have recommended it a few times when it felt like the OP was trying to nice his way into his wife's pants by doing the dishes and vacuuming. I personally think a man folding laundry is sexy as hell and when mr pink does it there is always a happy ending

I didn't read Eagle 3's other thread, but in this thread it doesn't strike me either an addiction, nor that he is trying to nice his way through it. Perhaps I should read his other threads...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I didn't read Eagle 3's other thread, but in this thread it doesn't strike me either an addiction, nor that he is trying to nice his way through it. Perhaps I should read his other threads...


Sure sounds like it to me. Quotes from a couple of his posts:



> The other thing is she is addicted to her Kindle and kinky novels. She reads all hours of the day and night.





> But she told me that with constant use of her vibrators she cant get to that point with hand stimulation even if she does it herself so she cant O when we are intimate.





> She has fallen for the sex she reads about but knows she wouldn't be able to even act out whats on the page but it consumes her. That she gets so lost that she is using her vibrator 3-4x a day (she works from home so easy with no one home) so when I get home she is done.





> One night her and her sister went out for a girls night couple of months ago and talked to a guy that had the name of the guy in a book she was reading. It consumed her all night thinking if she had a night like the book. Even though in real life he could make her orgasm PIV either but it was thought. *She told me she couldn't wait till I left for work that morning so she could get the vibrator out.*


So if it is not an addiction, it is at least an obsession and escape mechanism. She cares more about her written porn than about her relationship with her husband. 

I think that is where our disagreement is. You appear to view it (perhaps because of your own experiences) as a reasonable, albeit wrongly focused, fantasy. I look at it as fantasy that has gotten so deep that it subsumes everything else. He, as a regular guy, can no more compete with the written male character than she, as a regular gal, could compete with a women on video. And because of her over use of a vibrator, he can't even make her O when they have sex without it. So he has been set up to fail.

I am all for the two of them reading together, playing with toys, watching some porn - all things that when done together, allow them to build a great sexual relationship. But with her obsession, I really think she needs to detox and reset her mind and her body.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> ...
> After crying she admitted even though she loves me and the marriage she has been feeling guilty about our sex life. *She admitted that she has gotten wrapped up in her romance-sex novels she reads day and night and the constant use of her vibrator in place of us having sex.*
> ...
> *She has fallen for the sex she reads about but knows she wouldn't be able to even act out whats on the page but it consumes her. That she gets so lost that she is using her vibrator 3-4x a day *(she works from home so easy with no one home) so when I get home she is done.


Anon, no addiction here? I'm no therapist, but I don't think using the term 'addiction' is a stretch here.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

A situation like this looks like an addiction to me. I'm not sure I like the idea of getting involved with her and the focus of her addiction at the same time. It was suggested earlier to be in control of the vibe while she reads her book to you. 

Isnt that kind of like offering to hold the needle for a heroin addict? Not really solving the problem, imo.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> So if it is not an addiction, it is at least an obsession and escape mechanism.


I agree, it's not obsessive or compulsive, it's an addiction: 

What is the Difference Between Addictions and Compulsions


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> That's exactly IT!!!
> 
> This is why, IMO, women should watch porn to gain an understanding of the kinds of moves and sounds that turn men on. And why men should read romance to gain an understanding of the kinds of moves and word choices that turn a woman on.


So I should read my wife' erotic romance books to see what she is fantasizing about?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Honestly when it comes to porn and comes to erotic literature I tend to favor situations in which a woman doesn't have to do a darned thing. In fact I have been fantasizing bondage since I was a child. 

All this shows (in my opinion) is the opposite of my real -life sex life of having to be so responsible for a sex life that feels so problimatic.

My H would likely get the message if he were to look into what I read and watch. But honestly if he were that curious about me and how I feel about sex we wouldn't find ourselves int he current situation at all.

I apologize - Miss Scarlett is having a very pessimistic week and is not at all sure things are going to work out at this point. Miss Scarlett needs to go to the gym or something.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I apologize - Miss Scarlett is having a very pessimistic week and is not at all sure things are going to work out at this point. Miss Scarlett needs to go to the gym or something.


I could tell, you changed your avatar again. MissScarlett is near ready to make a declaration...as God is my witness, I'll never go without an orgasm again!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Jung_admirer said:


> Anon, no addiction here? I'm no therapist, but I don't think using the term 'addiction' is a stretch here.


Well the. I'm an addict too! I read it, I write it, I edit it. I love it!


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

rush said:


> So I should read my wife' erotic romance books to see what she is fantasizing about?


It is how I became aware of my wife's proclivities. I would highly recommend it. She knows I know but prefers to act like I know nothing about it. I believe it is because I do not fit into those fantasies.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

RClawson said:


> It is how I became of my wife's proclivities. I would highly recommend it. She knows I know but prefers to act like I know nothing about it. I believe it is because I do not fit into those fantasies.


Actually for quite some time I sneak what she is reading and look it up on amazon to see what its about, then I thumb through it when I get a chance, some are pretty dam hot!


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

rush said:


> Actually for quite some time I sneak what she is reading and look it up on amazon to see what its about, then I thumb through it when I get a chance, some are pretty dam hot!


See this is something I should have thought about or maybe asked about. I don't know if it would have changed my situation some. Anon Pink mentioned men could learn from talking like the books and i def think she taught me something with that. Good for you rush for doing it already. 

I don't want to not have my wife not read this but just not substitute it for real sex. For those who have given me advice that i am thankful for an update. I came home tonight not wanting to discuss our talk from last night but i could tell she did. i said to let it go this weekend so her daughter was here and i leave for the week for work on Mon to just step away and think about us. She kept asking me where i was with everything and i told her i think she needs to let us get back to our sex life and maybe step away from the constant use of novels and vibrator. And when that happens than bring that back in so we start it back together. When i told her i got this advice from reading here she lost it. How could i talk to people about what is going on with us. She told me she could handle it on her own that she did not use her vibrator today and was reading non sex book today. 

After she went to bed her Kindle was out and i know this was wrong but i had to after what has been going on. I looked at what she was in the middle of reading and sure enough it was an Erotica novel. So i am sure she got off today earlier. Why lie? i didn't ask her not to do that yet. I don't know what the hell is going on. The person in that bed right now upstairs is not who i have known all these years. I cant wait to to leave on my work trip to get away. 

Sorry guys for the ramble. Had some wine to help the BS going on here.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

A random post but I was getting concerned about how late I was staying up reading under the covers (I have been reading Stephen King, not erotica) and started leaving it downstairs charging at bedtime. Ive been sleeping a lot better without the distraction.

Neither here nor there - just that it would be beneficial on more than one account for your wife to take leave of her compultions for a bit.

That is crappy of her, though, to lie on the first day out.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

She has crossed into the realm of -damn I hate being wrong- classic addiction denial. "I can handle this" or "I can control this" you'd think people would not be so blatant in their tells. Also, the expectation of secrecy, just like an addict to insist their behavior be kept secret. Now granted, it's about her sex life so yes she would expect secrecy, but this is an anonymous forum so the histrionics were a bit over the top. And lying about her indulgence in her addicted behavior... Kind of the last nail in the coffin.

I guess your next step is to make an appointment with a therapist. Find a PhD therapist, not a LCSW. Your wife's issues are a bit more complicated than a social worker would be skilled enough to deal with.

I'm sorry you have to go through this. FWIW, I indulge in erotica daily, sometimes all day especially if I'm writing or editing. But it has never replaced my desire for the real thing. It only heightens my desire for the real thing, even after masturbating.

How long has this been going on now?


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> She has crossed into the realm of -damn I hate being wrong- classic addiction denial. "I can handle this" or "I can control this" you'd think people would not be so blatant in their tells. Also, the expectation of secrecy, just like an addict to insist their behavior be kept secret. Now granted, it's about her sex life so yes she would expect secrecy, but this is an anonymous forum so the histrionics were a bit over the top. And lying about her indulgence in her addicted behavior... Kind of the last nail in the coffin.
> 
> I guess your next step is to make an appointment with a therapist. Find a PhD therapist, not a LCSW. Your wife's issues are a bit more complicated than a social worker would be skilled enough to deal with.
> 
> ...


I would say the last 2 years but i really only noticed the last year. Here is why. 2 years ago we were still having sex but i didn't know she was this involved with the reading and vibrator so when i would usually make her climax was starting to be faked. Than the last year and a half i noticed a change in everything. The not getting dressed unless we had to go somewhere, the excuses for no sex. Straight rejection. After i knew something was wrong for her bday last year i set up for us to get away in a different city than where we live. I thought a change of scene would help. The whole 2.5 hr drive she read. We went to dinner and things were going well. We went out for drinks etc after and when came back i had to change something at the front desk. By the time i got back in the room she was in bed fully clothed saying her stomach hurt from drinking and dinner. I was disappointed but ok i went to bed. She didn't notice but woke at 430am and she was reading her kindle. Next morning she was all like sorry about last night i will make it up tonight. Well that didn't happen.

I also don't know if i could get her to a counsler. I will try but not feeling good about that.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Oh wow!

She is out of control, not at all in control. This won't go away by itself. Like any addiction, you can't nice your way out of it, you can't control her use of it, you can't bargain your way through it.

"Because this has been going on for so long I now understand what I didn't last year. You have an addiction. You can't control this. It means more to you than I do. Get help or get out."

How money does she spend per month on her kindle?

http://www.sexualrecovery.com/resources/self-tests/wsast.php


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Oh wow!
> 
> She is out of control, not at all in control. This won't go away by itself. Like any addiction, you can't nice your way out of it, you can't control her use of it, you can't bargain your way through it.
> 
> ...


:iagree:
Go see some attorneys and learn your legal options.

I don't see her changing unless you show you are more than willing to move on.
Either that or...and I just mean ask your wife if you can get your needs met elsewhere?
Show her you are done with this crap.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

If it got to the point where it was effecting my sex life as yours I would demand some action, counseling or whatever, as far as the toys we have in this house, I kinda police them to see when they have been touched and here it is rare. My wife is out of town and has not been reading it at all. Good break for her head I think.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

My hubbys cure.....he came to bed in the buff pulled me between his legs and sat me there laying on his chest. Then he pulled out my Kindle and proceeded to read to me....wouldn't you know he found the "spanking" one....wanted to know if I wanted to try it..:-/.... Yeah I really like to read and I got really hooked on those novels...I went the other way though it drove my already high sex drive through the roof. I was getting a little to demanding and wanting sex to often. I had to give up the Kindle completely, because I enjoy it too much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

mineforever said:


> My hubbys cure.....he came to bed in the buff pulled me between his legs and sat me there laying on his chest. Then he pulled out my Kindle and proceeded to read to me....wouldn't you know he found the "spanking" one....wanted to know if I wanted to try it..:-/.... Yeah I really like to read and I got really hooked on those novels...I went the other way though it drove my already high sex drive through the roof. I was getting a little to demanding and wanting sex to often. I had to give up the Kindle completely, because I enjoy it too much.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay, that is hot! What would have happened if he'd pulled up the femdom stuff?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

If she has a kindle fire she could be watching porn on it, not just reading erotica. You can check the history.

Neither here nor there. Either way she has a problem that has become quite serious by her own admission.


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## Want2babettrme (May 17, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> Well after taking in what people posted yesterday on my post I finally made the move to go home tonight after work and get to the bottom of the issue. I feel numb to be honest. I just laid it out there, no more bs, no more promises or apologies just honest answers to me no matter how hurtful. I think in a way the wife was waiting for me to make her let it out.
> After crying she admitted even though she loves me and the marriage she has been feeling guilty about our sex life. She admitted that she has gotten wrapped up in her romance-sex novels she reads day and night and the constant use of her vibrator in place of us having sex.
> 
> She has always struggled with having orgasms thru PIV sex but never been an issue as we always got it thru foreplay or toys in the past. But she told me that with constant use of her vibrators she cant get to that point with hand stimulation even if she does it herself so she cant O when we are intimate. She has fallen for the sex she reads about but knows she wouldn't be able to even act out whats on the page but it consumes her. That she gets so lost that she is using her vibrator 3-4x a day (she works from home so easy with no one home) so when I get home she is done. I asked if she is wanting another man and says no as she loves me and no shape or size can make her climax POV but she yearns for it like the books. It is basically consuming her mind and leaving her not wanting to have the real thing.
> ...



OP, I have to concur with the previous posters who stated that your W appears to have a sex addiction. Characteristics of addiction are: inability to stop the activity, escalation of the activity, use of the activity to self medicate instead of addressing problems, engaging in the activity interferes with important aspects of the addicts life, progression, i.e. having to use more and more to get the same high, and withdrawal symptoms when the activity is stopped. If she can stop the masturbation and romance novel fantasizing, as heavily involved as she is, she'll go through withdrawal period similar to what an alcoholic or drug addict experiences. She'll have actual physical, emotional and mental symptoms including depression, physical pain, insomnia, change in appetite, intrusive thoughts of using, restlessness, irritability, and others.

She needs to be in IC to get at the root of why she's avoiding life through romance novel porn and compulsive masturbation. There are several 12 step sex addiction programs which help the addict with support to get and stay sober. A 12 step program will also help her get to the root causes of her addiction. 

You should consider a 12 step program for partners of sex addicts. This will help you deal with the typical dynamics in the addictive family. You are not responsible for her addiction. You won't be able to manage her behavior, no matter how hard you try. You could benefit from IC also to deal with the frustration, anger, resentment, feelings of rejection, etc.

MC will be helpful, but IMHO that should come later. She's got a lot of work to do on herself first. There are also inpatient and outpatient intensive programs to address the addiction. This would help her stop the acting out and deal with withdrawal.

As regards sexual activity, she has to stop using the vibrator cold turkey. Frequent use of vibrators can make the user habituated to the intense stimulation until she can't reach orgasm through other methods. This is just like men who masturbate a lot using a tight grip and can't reach orgasm through PIV. After a time her stimulation threshold will adjust down to allow for orgasm through manual or oral stimulation. Many women are unable to orgasm through PIV, so I wouldn't fixate on that. (Women TAM posters seem to be an exception to this, just as male TAM posters all seem to be hung above average and can go PIV 8 to 12 times a day. JK:rofl

You may want to just put sex with her on the shelf for a while. Instead concentrate on non-sexual touching, cuddling, passionate kissing, etc. Work on yourself to be the best you possible. Make yourself a romance novel hero. Get in shape. Romance her. Date her. Tell her through words and actions that she is a beautiful and sexual woman and that you desire her. Surprise her and get her intrigued as to what you will do next. Don't be predictable or routine.

She needs help. You have the opportunity to help her by showing her your strength and your ability to have a fulfilling life with or without her.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> If she has a kindle fire she could be watching porn on it, not just reading erotica. You can check the history.
> 
> Neither here nor there. Either way she has a problem that has become quite serious by her own admission.


Miss Scarlett, she does have a kindle fire and good suggestion to check but I would be surprised if she is doing that (although at this point I should be prepared for anything), but porn never really was her thing. We would watch it together and sometimes act out what was going on, but she did that more for me. She always hated how fake the girls seemed having sex. She would day to me I don't care if you watch it yourself just don't think that is what women sound and act with sex. The irony of her telling me that in light of this is off the charts. 

I think she is trying to deflect this off her as she keeps harping on me going on here and talking to people about this. I told her would you want me to talk about this to friends that know us. For me telling you guys and getting advice has really helped me. I am not a person that talks about my problems with friends I am more of a listener so this was a good outlet. She knows that and that hurts especially knowing messed up homelife I had growing up I don't open up about myself.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> Miss Scarlett, she does have a kindle fire and good suggestion to check but I would be surprised if she is doing that (although at this point I should be prepared for anything), but porn never really was her thing. We would watch it together and sometimes act out what was going on, but she did that more for me. She always hated how fake the girls seemed having sex. She would day to me I don't care if you watch it yourself just don't think that is what women sound and act with sex. The irony of her telling me that in light of this is off the charts.



Isn't that the truth! But it doesn't necessarily indicate she's holding YOU to an unreasonable standard. She may be holding your relationship in itself to an unreasonable standard though.

As we all know relationships take work, they are not always perfect. The hardest part about resolving conflict is finding our own accountability in the conflict. I could see how she might have experienced an undercurrent of slight dissatisfaction and slowly became engrossed in the perfectness of romance, that is so easily tidied up at the end, as a preference to dealing with life in general.

This has nothing what so ever to do with you or any imperfections or less than full effort times you might have gone through. She was married before, right? So she is deeply and personally aware of how relationships fall apart.

The irony is that she didn't want to held to an unrealistic ideal as she found escape and solace in her own unrealistic ideal of romance.




> I think she is trying to deflect this off her as she keeps harping on me going on here and talking to people about this. I told her would you want me to talk about this to friends that know us. For me telling you guys and getting advice has really helped me. I am not a person that talks about my problems with friends I am more of a listener so this was a good outlet. She knows that and that hurts especially knowing messed up homelife I had growing up I don't open up about myself.


Because don't you know romance heroes know instinctively how to solve relationship conflicts, have degrees in psychology and gynecology, criminal justice, and attained a high rank in the navy seals while amassing a fortune in security software! 

Don't pay ANY attention to her indignant rants!


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Anon Pink, besides giving me great advice or things to think about you do say stuff that makes me laugh. Thanks for all of that. We talked again little bit ago and she admitted that we are in a rough spot and that a lot of that is on her. She said that sometimes she would hope I would get on her about that almost like its a test. That I would carry on would drive her nuts. Just my nature but point taken. 

From the start I have maintained that I am not without fault. I guess little bit ago I acted a little different for a short period of time, but she said I was in my right for that. I prob didn't think it showed but it did and I did bury it till it passed. But we were out to dinner with her co-workers and she lied to them about how I grew up and the dealings with that. I would have been ok if we discussed that before it happened. I didn't want to make a thing with people she worked with.

Also no she was never married. She got pregnant at 15 hence why I have a step daughter older than our age people would think. I always wondered if that would ever play a role later on with us. She was always a little self conscious that I had a lot more partners and experience than her. 

I think getting to the root cause though will take time as when I try to inquire about that part of it she shuts down and closes down the convo.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> We talked again little bit ago and she admitted that we are in a rough spot and that a lot of that is on her. She said that sometimes *she would hope I would get on her about that *almost like its a test. *That I would carry on would drive her nuts.* Just my nature but point taken.
> 
> From the start I have maintained that I am not without fault. I guess little bit ago I acted a little different for a short period of time, but she said I was in my right for that. I prob didn't think it showed but it did and I did bury it till it passed. But we were out to dinner with her co-workers and *she lied to them about how I grew up and the dealings with that. *I would have been ok if we discussed that before it happened. I didn't want to make a thing with people she worked with.
> 
> ...


Just some thoughts on the bolded parts...

1. She wants you to help her control herself. She wants you to care enough about her to put your foot down and insist. Just like the romance heroes do. This would be where you threaten a bare bottom spanking... Now, is this you? Is this something you're okay with? Temporarily or long term? Is this something that is ultimately in her best interest, something she can really live with? Is she interested in a "Taken in Hand" kind of domestic discipline relationship? Are you? 

It's driving her nuts knowing she is destroying this relationship and you keep show patience and understanding. She expects consequences, she needs consequences. She may not like the consequences at all, but she is crying out for them.

Go here, read while you're away. See if any of it sits okay with you.
Taken In Hand

Domestic Discipline | A Uniquely Different Life

The least this will do is familiarize yourself with the actual practices and theories in real life relationships, which are glossed over and romanced in romance. The best it will do is to give you a clear avenue to follow. Again, this is YOUR decision. This is a growing trend among women, some say they want it, some only like eroticism of it, others are turned on but embarrassed because it means they are terrible feminists! Yeah yeah whatever floats your boat best is what you should do. If you aren't comfortable, then don't even bring it up with her.

But if your curious about it, bring it up, talk it out. She is still responsible for her choices and decisions, but you will now be responsible for checking up on her and maintaining vigilance.

2. She lied about your upbringing? Did she make it better, all for show? Don't allow this. Reality is what you insist on. There is no such thing as perfect, we don't give a damn about appearances. Life is messy and complicated. It is what it is. The choice is to not answer the question or to tell the truth, lying is never an acceptable option.

3. Pregnant at 15... So she feels the weight of this mistake in terms of feeling like it make her less worthy than other people?

4. She feels intimidated by your sexual experience compared to hers? Again, she feels less worthy because she doesn't feel confident in the bedroom.

She needs therapy and as the head of your household, since that's what she been reading and the role into which she has cast you, you insist it happens no matter the tantrums and tears. Roll up the sleeve on your dress shirt as you sit down in a straight backed chair, and tell her she is going to therapy and getting a spanking for being such a brat! <--- kidding on the last part, couldn't help the scene that inserted itself...


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Anon Pink, again many thanks for your help and guidance. I already pulled up your link and got into it some. I am def taking this for my trip and am interested to see what I uncover. It never occurred to me that she wanted this. On the surface she is strong minded and stubborn that I wouldn't think that is what she was looking for but as I am finding out a woman's mind is more complex than we dive into. So I def see your point here. Some responses for you:

Yes she did lie. She comes from a well to do family and close family. They all stay close and get together for anything and everything. Don't get me wrong they have been great but it took awhile for them to see me for me and not where I came from. Her job is family connected so her co-workers are the same. My father went to jail before I was born and left when I was 1 so I have never met the man. My mom struggled with that and after meeting a new man years later decieded she needed a fresh start and left for Fl without telling me. I was all of 9. So after years of foster homes my aunt finally got custody and took me in. In my wife's family and friends world I might have flown in from space. That was the only time she did that so I was thrown for a loss. I don't hide from it, in some ways I think it made me the person I am today.

Being a young mother with a ****bag for her daughters father, she missed out on a lot of her younger years. She never got that freedom and living the life of people her age were doing.

Due to that she has not had many partners or experienced I would say. Her last bf before me had issues in the ED area so it was not a great setup in the bedroom. I was the first guy to have her experience an orgasm and even to really masturbate (look at the monster I created) so in a way I was different in a lot of aspects for her. 

When I get back from my trip I will be pushing the therapy. Again your advice has been very appreciated.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> My father went to jail before I was born and left when I was 1 so I have never met the man. My mom struggled with that and after meeting a new man years later decieded she needed a fresh start and left for Fl without telling me. I was all of 9. So after years of foster homes my aunt finally got custody and took me in. In my wife's family and friends world I might have flown in from space. That was the only time she did that so I was thrown for a loss. I don't hide from it, in some ways I think it made me the person I am today.
> 
> .


Not in some ways, but in some very important ways. Don't sell yourself short because you didn't have a charmed childhood. How on earth can a child be held accountable because the people who brought him into this world didn't parent and chose to abandon him to the system? That is disgusting to me and they should be shamed their whole lives for what they did to you! They should have to wear the Scarlett Letter A. "Abandoned my helpless child"

I used to work with kids in foster care, my heart goes out to you. Not pity, but that you had/have to work harder than others, that from an early age you had to accept responsibility for things children are ill equipped to handle. And you did it! I have a sh!t ton more respect for people who survived and thrived through foster care than for those with a charmed childhood! 

Which brings me to a point I think your wife needs to contemplate. Abandonment will likely always be a hot button for you. Whether you have an unreasonable tolerance for stuff that would drive others away, or you are defensive to the point of walking away before they can, it is your hot button. As such, it is very unfair for her to pull away from you without giving you insight into why. She needs to understand the importance of this.

If you haven't already done so, read No More Mr. Nice Guy. My husband has read it and it really opened his eyes to how his issues affected our marriage. Our reconciliation is going so well because he read it and took those lessons to heart.


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## The Grey One (Dec 9, 2013)

I had a similar problem to your wife once upon a time.

I started masturbating as a child before I even had semen to cum with. I'd masturbate at least once a day, usually more. I could always get myself to cum quickly.

Once I finally started getting girls to join in on the action, many years later, I found I was unable to cum with normal sex - I could get very, very close, but never actually would.

I discovered that if I stopped masturbating (it was really, really hard to stop this), I started being able to cum. The difference was several weeks between when I stopped masturbating and when I was able to cum from sex. Having regular sex didn't inhibit this - just masturbation.

I think the only hope for you here is for your wife to agree to give up the vibrator, and wait for you to come home. Then you two can have regular sex - without you spending too much time trying to get her to cum.

After she begins to get sensitive again, she should start cumming again.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Not in some ways, but in some very important ways. Don't sell yourself short because you didn't have a charmed childhood. How on earth can a child be held accountable because the people who brought him into this world didn't parent and chose to abandon him to the system? That is disgusting to me and they should be shamed their whole lives for what they did to you! They should have to wear the Scarlett Letter A. "Abandoned my helpless child"
> 
> I used to work with kids in foster care, my heart goes out to you. Not pity, but that you had/have to work harder than others, that from an early age you had to accept responsibility for things children are ill equipped to handle. And you did it! I have a sh!t ton more respect for people who survived and thrived through foster care than for those with a charmed childhood!
> 
> ...


Anon Pink, again your words and adivce is spot on and nice to hear. Yeah going thru that as a kid i dont really talk about much to people because its hard for others to grasp what goes on with all of that. Her family means well but they would push for me to build a relationship with my mother. There was a huge to do when i would not invite her to our wedding. I was baffeled that they wanted to me include someone on our day that didnt include me in her life. Sometimes i think with certain circles they run in it seems embarassing to explain etc....

You hit the nail on the head about prob why i try not to make waves and where some have avised me to maybe start the process of leaving i cant do that...unless things cannot be repiared. Even though her daugher is older i dont want to leave her as we have a great relationship. I know that could come across as not the best of reasons but to me it makes me think that way.

Hopefully a week away will get her to think of things. I told her this morning to really think about us and both looking in the mirror and see if we like what we see. I told her that i dont want to have a good relationship for 3/4 of our marriage but not one of most importatnt part. That i miss the intimacy of us. I cant wait to get to the hotel tonight and start reading the links you and others have told me to look into.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Just some thoughts on the bolded parts...
> 
> 1. She wants you to help her control herself. She wants you to care enough about her to put your foot down and insist. Just like the romance heroes do. This would be where you threaten a bare bottom spanking... Now, is this you? Is this something you're okay with? Temporarily or long term? Is this something that is ultimately in her best interest, something she can really live with? Is she interested in a "Taken in Hand" kind of domestic discipline relationship? Are you?
> 
> ...


I am not against this, but Eagle3, make sure that this is what you want. The issue I see is that you end up being stuck as the adult in the relationship. Every time things are not like what she wants, you could end up being responsible fro fixing it. That may not be a problem for you, but reigning her in every time she acts out may not be what you want. 

Don't get so caught up in keeping this marriage that you get stuck in a marriage that does not bring you happiness or work for you.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I am not against this, but Eagle3, make sure that this is what you want. The issue I see is that you end up being stuck as the adult in the relationship. Every time things are not like what she wants, you could end up being responsible fro fixing it. That may not be a problem for you, but reigning her in every time she acts out may not be what you want.
> 
> Don't get so caught up in keeping this marriage that you get stuck in a marriage that does not bring you happiness or work for you.


Completely agree with this!

Most of these DD relationships were initiated by the wife who had to talk the husband into it. I've read blog posts from husbands who are terrified of what their wives are asking for. It is NOT to be contemplated lightly!


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

So just wanted to tell everyone thanks for all the links of things to look into and read. After i checked in my hotel last night i dived in a couple of things. Really eye opening stuff and i think i might take a little of each and work with it. If anything, it gives me a peace of mind that i am doing what i can. For example when i landed yesterday i only sent a single text stating that. Most of the time i will tell her i miss her or love her etc...later last night she called asking was i not going to call her and what not. I simply said that i thought we could use the time away to reflect and it would be helpful for us to really look into oursevles. I could tell she was taken back by me just bluntly telling her something and leaving it at that. No idea if being more firm will change anything but after some stuff i read it might help me in general.

I have mentioned before we have a mutual friend before we dated and got married and she knows a little what is going on etc...she sent me an email yesterday saying that my wife makes it sound like i knew a lot of what she was doing was going on. She also informed me that she has befriended 3 other women on a book blog and they meet online to discuss erotica novels and life. Apprently the 2 are off bad divorces and the other is in a bad marriage. This has been going on for a good bit of time. Again its not that she had to tell me this goes on, i am all for having independence to do things, but makes me wonder if these talks affect her in someway. I also wonder if she tells our mutual friend some of this stuff hopeing it gets back to me in a sense. Not sure really and dont want to breal the trust of her and tell my wife i know these things.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

So, if you are not going to have her get rid of the kindle and the toys, you will never get out of this mess. She has to have transparency, and there is only one way to do that.

At the very least, you should have confronted her when you saw what she was reading.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Tasorundo said:


> So, if you are not going to have her get rid of the kindle and the toys, you will never get out of this mess. She has to have transparency, and there is only one way to do that.
> 
> At the very least, you should have confronted her when you saw what she was reading.


Tasorundo, i see what you are saying, but i feel like she has to get control or want to stop on her own or it will never get fixed. I told her to put the the reading and toys on hold to get us back. If i took the Kindle what prevents her from downloading a book on her phone or laptop? She can purhcase a book in a store and i would not know. I am willing to bet the kit of toys we use in the bedroom prob is not the only place there are some. If she cant get it in herself to make a change or work on this without me having to take stuff away than that will speak volumes to me where i stand or us. If it comes to me having to do that than i will. I put on doing anything big as i was leaving town and this weekend her daughter had friends over so didnt want go get into anything heavy with kids in the house.

Thanks for your response and point well taken.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

So, if she was smoking crack, would you say the same thing? I understand that there are differences, but there are more similarities. She is in a pattern, addicted to what she is doing, with people that are enabling and encouraging her behavior.

If you will not fight along side with her, then you might as well just cash it in. She has expressed a desire to change, but it is not a switch, and she will need your support in that.

I understand that you are out of town, but when you get back, you have to draw lines in the sand. There cannot be a wishy-washy stance. This is more like she is having an affair than she is just not paying attention to you.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Update: So i might have made a breakthru on the root casue of my situation late last night. I dont know if its becasue i am not at home or been ignoring her mostly the last couple of days but i finally got some answers. She called me and said we needed to talk that my silence was worrying her. I took some of the advice given to me hear and things i was told to read and just unloaded (i think not face to face might have been easier for both of us to get things off our chests). I told her losing sex to her toys and novels was hurting me that the lack of intimacy is something i cant live with. That if this was not cleared i would consider movng out for a bit. Now i dont know if it was the heat of the moment as i was not really prepared to do that but it must have triggered something. 

After collecting herself and couple of minutes of silence she thanked me. Apprently unloading and making a stand in some way is what she was wanting from me. She told me that i am a great husband, couldnt ask for anything more to help raise her daughter, all the things i do for her. I was told she was taking that for granted and stopped looking at me like she used to. She lost the image of me like i was at first and too much of a nice guy. When we first dated there was another woman i was talking too as well just early stage stuff, but the thought of having me as a chase drove her nuts. That she missed the not always nice guy, she wanted me to get on her about stuff to hold her accountable. She still wants me to treat her nice like i do but still give her the taste of how i was or can be. She told me that is what her book give her the escape of everyday life and an escape of sex in that way. She wanted me to take her and do her more like a stranger not a loving wife. Even though before our probem sex was still giving her orgasms, she wanted to feel not like a wife. 

She has a gf who is always in terrible relationships but my wife said she would be turned on hearing how her and her guy would have sex and he would be a d*ck to her after. Now she doesnt want me to be like that all the time in our marrige but a little bit would be great. I told her i want the constant reading to be put on ice till we can get back to us. She said she would fantasize that i would come in the room throw her kinde down and demand to be taken care of instead of the books.

I told her that she knows i am up for anytihng sexually and have asked to be more adventerous and i got nothing back. I guess trying to hard to appease her was not the way to go. That i should have just done it. She told me that she cant just tell me this is what she wanted in some ways she felt funny thinking like that so getting lost in her books was her escape. I dont know how this will play out, it concerns me that our sex life suffered because of some of the stuff she did and there are things that i still want answers for, but it might be start. 

Thanks again to all that gave me adivce and answers to what might be wrong with us, it really helped me and i will still need help. I woke up this morning feeling a little better i just hope its not a false hope. I did send a text this morning about glad we talked last night. Now i want you to put the toys and kindle away on ice for a bit. I want you to only think of me coming home on Friday locking the doors and not leaving the bedroom till Monday morning.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Eagle3 said:


> Thanks again to all that gave me adivce and answers to what might be wrong with us, it really helped me and i will still need help. I woke up this morning feeling a little better i just hope its not a false hope. I did send a text this morning about glad we talked last night. Now i want you to put the toys and kindle away on ice for a bit. I want you to only think of me coming home on Friday locking the doors and not leaving the bedroom till Monday morning.


Well, this at least gives you an avenue to pursue. It will require you to me more aggressive and demanding in bed. Many women prefer than man to take the lead, so this is a reasonable jumping off point.

I think your big decision will be when you find out that she has in fact read her kindle and used her vibrator (because those who are addicted or obsessed rarely give it up without backsliding). Do you walk out the door after noting that she has made her choice or do you take her over your knee for a spanking and then have you way with her. I think both have their advantages, but you will need to chose one and stick to it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> Update: So i might have made a breakthru on the root casue of my situation late last night. I dont know if its becasue i am not at home or been ignoring her mostly the last couple of days but i finally got some answers. She called me and said we needed to talk that my silence was worrying her. I took some of the advice given to me hear and things i was told to read and just unloaded (i think not face to face might have been easier for both of us to get things off our chests). I told her losing sex to her toys and novels was hurting me that the lack of intimacy is something i cant live with. That if this was not cleared i would consider movng out for a bit. Now i dont know if it was the heat of the moment as i was not really prepared to do that but it must have triggered something.
> 
> After collecting herself and couple of minutes of silence she thanked me. Apprently unloading and making a stand in some way is what she was wanting from me. She told me that i am a great husband, couldnt ask for anything more to help raise her daughter, all the things i do for her. I was told she was taking that for granted and stopped looking at me like she used to. She lost the image of me like i was at first and too much of a nice guy. When we first dated there was another woman i was talking too as well just early stage stuff, but the thought of having me as a chase drove her nuts. That she missed the not always nice guy, she wanted me to get on her about stuff to hold her accountable. She still wants me to treat her nice like i do but still give her the taste of how i was or can be. She told me that is what her book give her the escape of everyday life and an escape of sex in that way. She wanted me to take her and do her more like a stranger not a loving wife. Even though before our probem sex was still giving her orgasms, she wanted to feel not like a wife.
> 
> ...


Well damn! If that isn't as close to a happy ending as we get here I don't know what is!

Excellent break through! Well done Eagle 3 well done!

There is still a ways to go but your path is now cleared of misunderstandings. I said it was an excellent sign that she was honest about what she was doing and taking responsibility for it. She does love you. She's in over her head. She still need help getting out of the whole she's dug for herself but I have no doubt everything will work out just fine!

The book and b!tch group...gotta go! They won't help her forward. 

She wants you to take charge! But don't do it just yet. She can't go into this kind of relationship until she is fully healthy again.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Do you walk out the door after noting that she has made her choice or *do you take her over your knee for a spanking and then have you way with her. * I think both have their advantages, but you will need to chose one and stick to it.


I vote for the bolded part and I am fairly certain Mrs Eagle would as well!


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I vote for the bolded part and I am fairly certain Mrs Eagle would as well!


That is what I would do as well, but it does not work if that ain't Mr. Eagle. Nothing wrong with that, but he needs to know himself.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Thanks Anon and Tall Avg Guy, both of you guys have given me great advice thru my posts, it really did help me. I slept better last night than i have had in months. Whatever happens i finally got some understanding and answers. We havent talked like that to each other in a long time i felt. I def see both of us have things to work on and fix. I hated that we both put ourselves on the shelf as we did. I my mistake was i got wrapped up in what was going on and letting it go not thinking of the signs of me needing to help her get out of this. I need to get better on letting it known i am upset about something instead of keeping it in. 

That was also borught up last night. She had refused my suggestion of councling because i came across as a hyprocite as she wanted me to do that years ago. She always thought i could have used it to help with the stuff with my parents and all of that followed. To me i have buried that long time ago but could be why i dont open up as much and let things simmer. So i told her i would consider it if she would do it as well.

Tall Avg Guy, i am def siding with the spanking part when this arises. I love my wife too much to choose the latter. 

Anon Pink, i agree 100% with you that the book group has to end. I am going to hold firm on that. That is wasted negative energy going on there.

Friday seems like years away, i want to get home.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I expect a full salacious report next Monday! For research purposes....


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I am glad to hear things went well.

I have similar issues with my wife, sort of. However when I tried to take her, she shut down. In fact, when I came home after a week away I kissed her passionately in the airport.  She started to cry in the car on the way home, feeling like I only missed having sex with her.

Sigh, relationships and sex, such a conundrum.


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## MrHappy (Oct 23, 2008)

Congrats. Thought this might behind it all. Welcome to the wonderful world of dominance. *sniff* *sniff* Next Eagle3 will be telling us she picked out a safe word.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MrHappy said:


> Congrats. Thought this might behind it all. Welcome to the wonderful world of dominance. *sniff* *sniff* Next Eagle3 will be telling us she picked out a safe word.


I know...they grow up so fast... Sniff sniff...


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

So just wanted to give an update on the issue here. Friday after couple of weather delays I finally made it back home hours later than I was supposed to. When I got in the house there was a box on the table with a note saying inside was her kindle and the toys from the bedroom. She asked that I hold onto them till things get better and sorry for the problems caused. I was glad to read that. 

When I went into the bedroom the wife was laying in bed under the covers. She pulled them off lying naked and asked if I read the note. Than flipped over and asked that I spank her for causing problems. I know some advice I got here was to hold off on doing anything but I couldn't help it. I spanked her harder than I ever did before and she reacted like I never seen her before either. We had pretty intense sex that night.

Next morning we talked some and I asked when the toys and kindle were put away. She said that night we talked on the phone, but admitted by Thursday she was struggling and masturbated in the shower using the shower head. I know there is a long road ahead to get to normal. I asked her about the spanking that occurred. She told me she was so turned on by the thought of me coming home to do that. I told her I was shocked because I would spank her during sex in the past and she didn't like it. She explained that for some reason its different that when I would do it with sex it didn't feel good and more like a porno. She told me that she wants to have the spanking go on but not a full time thing or not to go overboard. I don't know what to make of it as I read some of the links on this posters gave me and I don't think she would be ok with all of that. Can you only do certain parts of this or you have to fully commit?

I have to say things were better but I don't know if that is a short term thing or not but I want to stay positive. I want to do whatever will work and help, just don't want to rush or make the wrong move.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Spank that naughty girl!

Good for you OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Love your update! I was thinking about you yesterday.

You can do whatever works for the two of you. Some couple do erotic spanking, role play spanking, punishment spanking. You can do all of it, some of it, or none of it.

The best course is for you both to very very clearly define and explain what you want. And as Mr Happy a already said, you have to have a safe word. Here's a jumping off article for those wondering...
Beginning Domination - Erotic Romance author Cherise Sinclair


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> So just wanted to give an update on the issue here. Friday after couple of weather delays I finally made it back home hours later than I was supposed to. When I got in the house there was a box on the table with a note saying inside was her kindle and the toys from the bedroom. She asked that I hold onto them till things get better and sorry for the problems caused. I was glad to read that.
> 
> When I went into the bedroom the wife was laying in bed under the covers. She pulled them off lying naked and asked if I read the note. Than flipped over and asked that I spank her for causing problems. I know some advice I got here was to hold off on doing anything but I couldn't help it. I spanked her harder than I ever did before and she reacted like I never seen her before either. We had pretty intense sex that night.
> 
> ...


She wants you to assert your dominance over her.

And it's not always about sex, but it DOES lead to that many times.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Anon, thanks for the link, I am going to have her look at it and agree with you that just set some boundries. I am excited and anxious to see this develop. I def think its bringing a spark. I found out this morning I have to leave again for the week for a work trip which pisses me off as I wanted to have some time at home to talk about these things. After I got off the phone with work she was in the shower I hopped in and surprised her. I grabbed her from behind and spanked her again telling her when I am gone this week to not use the showerhead and wait for me. Than I got out right after no sex or anything. She is out now Christmas shopping with her daughter but I did get a text little bit ago saying that this morning in the shower was so hot that she cant wait to get home later. 

As happy I am with this going on, I am wondering do I just keep going forward and go as is, or do I talk about some of the things that happened leading up to it. She seemed to make a step with boxing up the kindle and toys, but there was a lot going on leading up to this. I don't want to take steps back, but don't want to just let all of that pass too. There was a lot of hurt and frustration with both us that I fear doesn't get addressed might bubble again? Or just move ahead with this change going forward. I hate having to leave again as it been a great 48 hrs.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Keep moving forward slowly, but talking everything out is vital. You can't do one with out the other.

Boxing up her kindle and vibrators is a huge positive. Controlling her masturbation is a component of domination. Some like it, some hate it. This is where excellent communication is vital. I'd not like to go a whole week without masturbating! I'd probably assume he planned to give me to go ahead by Tuesday, latest! 

I don't think you should continue to dominance into next week unless you two have had lots of time to talk. You could try texting her some directions/instructions just to keep the games going, but the big goal still needs to be her getting in touch with what she needs from in terms of reality, and getting control of her addiction to erotica/masturbation.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> Anon, thanks for the link, I am going to have her look at it and agree with you that just set some boundries. I am excited and anxious to see this develop. I def think its bringing a spark. I found out this morning I have to leave again for the week for a work trip which pisses me off as I wanted to have some time at home to talk about these things. After I got off the phone with work she was in the shower I hopped in and surprised her. I grabbed her from behind and spanked her again telling her when I am gone this week to not use the showerhead and wait for me. Than I got out right after no sex or anything. She is out now Christmas shopping with her daughter but I did get a text little bit ago saying that this morning in the shower was so hot that she cant wait to get home later.
> 
> As happy I am with this going on, I am wondering do I just keep going forward and go as is, or do I talk about some of the things that happened leading up to it. She seemed to make a step with boxing up the kindle and toys, but there was a lot going on leading up to this. I don't want to take steps back, but don't want to just let all of that pass too. There was a lot of hurt and frustration with both us that I fear doesn't get addressed might bubble again? Or just move ahead with this change going forward. I hate having to leave again as it been a great 48 hrs.


Talk about the issues, but don't overdo it. Don't overdo the dominance, either.

Let things come and go naturally.

She really does want you to have a certain "dominance", or "control" over her in bed. A desire for her that overwhelms her.

Yea yeah I'm talking cheesy. But you get the point.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Instruct her to masturbate Tuesday. But make her text you a picture of it. Or FaceTime or Skype.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Wish my wife would hurry up and get back home......


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## MrHappy (Oct 23, 2008)

Tell her/Text when she can masturbate for a set amount of time but she CAN'T have an orgasm and she has to tell you what she did. Especially a few days before you come home.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MrHappy said:


> Tell her/Text when she can masturbate for a set amount of time but she CAN'T have an orgasm and she has to tell you what she did. Especially a few days before you come home.


I hate this idea. I wouldn't last a day. I'll be happy to film it, but it's happening dude!

Don't like orgasm denial. Don't like it. Don't like it. Don't like it!


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I wonder if she wants a 50 Shades type spanking where the woman is actually in control by being able to.say stop - but they are proper over the knee spankings with lots of lead up, not a surprise attack.

I'm rather with anon that I would not take kindly to orgasm denial. I have religious baggage, though, where a lifetime of masturbation abstainance was expected. There's no way anyone could frame this in a romantic way for me.


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## MrHappy (Oct 23, 2008)

MissScarlett said:


> I wonder if she wants a 50 Shades type spanking where the woman is actually in control by being able to.say stop - but they are proper over the knee spankings with lots of lead up, not a surprise attack.
> 
> I'm rather with anon that I would not take kindly to orgasm denial. I have religious baggage, though, where a lifetime of masturbation abstainance was expected. There's no way anyone could frame this in a romantic way for me.


A sub is the one always in control. Safe words are usually more for the Dom.

OK. I am shocked I found something Anon isn't into.  I wonder why neither of you like it? (for my psychological curiosity) Many guys do this to treat PE, so maybe there is less stigma about it. You are just waiting for permission to O. Pretty common in BDSM. Just wondering and I know everyone is different in what they like.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

I would NOT be okay with my husband telling me I could masturbate but not O.

Him telling me I can only masturbate on a certain day, and that I have to send him a picture, now that would be hot.

I completely recommend this. It will give her something to look forward to, and she will have her release without having to "sneak" it or feel guilty. Plus your still in control. Which is what she seems to want. Win win.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I don't like it because, as I mentioned, I was raised from my youth being told that I could never masturbate in my whole life. Never. Even once was a sin against God that required confession and consequences. 

I have an irrational, knee jerk reaction to the suggestion I can't touch my own body when I want to. It's not a sexy reaction in any way. 

However, I've never felt masturbation cut into my sex drive. I haven't chosen masturbation over sexual intimacy with another person even though I've only had an orgasm with my H a handful of times and they have all been this year.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

I agree. I wouldn't personally like to be told that I couldn't do it.

His wife is struggling with an addiction to it. She prefers stories over her husband. So I think this would work in her case. This gives her an acceptable time to "slip up" on her promise to not masturbate, without hurting either party or her feeling the need to start hiding it again.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Oh yeah, I totally get it and I'm very glad the OP's wife is putting forth an effort to change the dynamic.

Someone just asked for an elaboration on why I didn't like it - that's all.


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## MrHappy (Oct 23, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback.

For the OP (or anyone) you can get the BDSM checklist (google it) filled out and IF she is truthful you can find out what she likes.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

That's funny, there are a few things I refuse outright and some I refuse unless I'm in the right frame of mind. But most everything else is on the table for exploration.

I hate orgasm denial, which is different from edging. Denial means no orgasm. Edging is getting to the edge, but holding off or backing off for a short period of time.

I didn't have orgasms at all for years! I worked hard to get here and I refuse to deny it. Also, denial to me feels careless and too sadistic. Clearly I'm a terrible masochist!


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

hum...........hurry up and come home wife!


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

So thanks for all the responses while I was away it was great to read. I have no idea if I am going down the right road or not but I wasn't able to read these till I got back.

I ended up taking the advice here and set up a night to have her masturbate but with me included. I kept her kindle and toys away as she gave me but I didn't want to ruin her pleasure of getting off cold turkey when I am not around so I told her I wanted to do it over face time on the phone. I started the day sending some texts to her when I was at work setting up what was to happen that evening. It ended up going pretty good and she seemed pretty receptive to that and told me she liked me telling her what to do while she did that.

The one issue is I was on separate coasts this trip so we couldn't connect till I got home last night. She confided to me she used the shower head again twice later on in the week. After she told me this we were watching tv on the couch. I told her to come to me as I stripped her down to her panties and spanked her hard and used my hand on her. We fell asleep but this morning she told me she loved the face time and the spanking but even knowing she deserved the spanking she felt bad about the shower head. The problem is her urges were there. 

Right now I am taking the slow approach as I know she is trying and we are trying new things so patience is what I am making myself have and maintain,


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

What's wrong with the shower head? Well I guess if she is giving up her dirty stories she won't be making herself aroused, so not masturbating might not be a big deal.

Glad things are working out for you Eagle.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> What's wrong with the shower head? Well I guess if she is giving up her dirty stories she won't be making herself aroused, so not masturbating might not be a big deal.
> 
> Glad things are working out for you Eagle.


I am of two minds with the shower head. She is a individual and a sexual being, so controlling that seems problematic. It also may cause her to shut down that side of things.

On the other hand, she has been developing and exploring her sexual side without him, and inf fact in a manner that has hurt their relationship and closed him out. So I get that her behavior there needs to be watched.

Perhaps figure out a way to allow her some of that freedom while making it part of your sex life together. Maybe she has to describe what she did. Or she has to engage you sexually if she does (not that you two can't trying to get her to O, just that she can't use her previous masturbation as an excuse to put you off).

Also consider that she used the shower head and told you about to provoke the spanking.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Also consider that she used the shower head and told you about to provoke the spanking.


Bingo!


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## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

Eagle, your situation just sounds like an exaggerated version of mine. I'm not sure if I would be able to cope as you did with it being to the degree that you speak of. However, in your situation, your wife came clean about it all, even expressed remorse/knowledge that it was causing damage, and worked with you to get through/past it. I'm glad that you had that experience. Reading your story from the beginning was very painful for me as it is basically what I most fear in my own situation. Best wishes.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

ET1SSJonota said:


> Eagle, your situation just sounds like an exaggerated version of mine. I'm not sure if I would be able to cope as you did with it being to the degree that you speak of. However, in your situation, your wife came clean about it all, even expressed remorse/knowledge that it was causing damage, and worked with you to get through/past it. I'm glad that you had that experience. Reading your story from the beginning was very painful for me as it is basically what I most fear in my own situation. Best wishes.


Thanks ET1SSJonota, I will dive into your posts to see what is going on with you. Where you the one that posted about 50 Shades? If so I have some of an idea. Anyway yes I am lucky that my wife was able to admit what was going on and take a chance on doing things to changing the way we were going on. 

I was helped in coming here cause if not I would probably still be suffering in silence. That said I was not without fault too. There were things I was not doing and picking up on. But I hope things will work out for you, but don’t fear yet, as there might be a chance to turn it around.


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## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

NO 50 shades problems here... compared to most my issues are mild so don't put too much energy into it! Best of luck.


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