# What to do now?



## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

After several failed attempts at the 180 I think I'm finally doing it right. No more pleading, begging, phone calls, etc. to her. I was served divorce papers and seeing her signature on those docs was a big wake up call that it is over. I'm about a month in doing the 180 successfully. 

Admittedly, I started the 180 for the wrong reasons...mainly to try and get her to see what she is missing (me as well as the family life we had with our two kids aged 4 and 6). It has morphed into half doing it for the wrong reasons and half doing it for the right reasons (to be ok no matter what happens). I've progressed over the past month...not huge progress but going in the right direction. 

But my mind is still obsessed with the would've, could've, should'ves and it's me whose missing the family unit the most (or so it seems). It's so odd going from 15 years building a life and family together to a "hi" and a "bye" once a week when we pickup/dropoff kids. 

So I do want my wife/family life back AND I want to be just fine it I don't get that life back. I know the 180 is working (slowly but it is) on being okay if I don't get that back but I'm starting to wonder if it's the most effective way of actually resuscitating my marriage. I feel like I'm just letting it die.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What to do now? Keep doing the 180 and start doing things for yourself.. moving on.


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

33,

Why did the two of you separate?

Stretch


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## CrazyBeautiful1 (Oct 21, 2013)

I'm right there with you. The 180 seemed to be a logical choice to satisfy both needs..Wanting my marriage back, as well as making me okay in the long run.

Hopefully it works out for you, in whatever way is best!


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Stretch said:


> 33,
> 
> Why did the two of you separate?
> 
> Stretch


I was in limbo land for a little over a year prior to separation while she tried to figure out if she even wanted to even try to work on the marriage. Worst year of my life...pure hell. She wasn't willing to go to MC so I had to try to work on M by myself which was viewed as not giving her space. I was trying to reconnect with her and I was failing at every turn. Those failures and the limbo put me through these waves of depression that would come and go. I had to draw a line in the sand for my own sanity...work on the marriage or separate. She chose separate and filed divorce papers not too long after.

But our problems started years ago. She thought I worked too much. It wasn't the hours as much as our conflicting work schedule. I worked weekends so she had to handle kids on her own. She resented me for this to the point she says she stopped loving me (which I didn't find out about until recently). Looking back now I can see she stopped loving me but at the time I couldn't really put my finger on what was wrong. I was definitely unhappy due to the lack of any intimacy but wasn't self aware enough at the time to diagnose it. I was loyal to my wife for 13 years and then I ended up making out with some girl. No excuses for that. I told her the next day. When she reacted with indifference I knew I was unlikely to save us.

I think we would have ended up at the same place with or without make out session. Our main problem was I need to have an intimate partner as my wife and she wasn't interested in that. She didn't even want to try and meet in the middle because then she says she's sacrificing herself. She looks at intimacy as her having to boost my ego. The wrong way to look at it if you ask me. I look at it as she's my wife I love her and I want to be intimate with her. We didn't have intimacy probs before the kids so it's not like she never was intimate. 

And to clarify I don't just mean sex. Kissing, hugging, laying next to and holding eachother. Shouldn't you want to do that with your spouse. She turns it around on me like I'm the one that's wrong for wanting that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

OK, so I now I can give you a little bit of guidance based on what happened to me, no kids 22 yrs married.

My wife was hurting needing changes in our marriage and I ignored her cries for help. She left 14 months ago 4 days before our 22nd anniversary. I was devastated. I figured out that going dark and working on myself was the only way to survive and have a chance at R.

Two weeks ago, out of the blue my WAW sends me an email, I have to talk to you. I meet her an she wants to get back together.

Go dark, work on yourself, do the 180. If it is meant to be she will be back. If not you will be prepared to move on, which is what I am doing, saying no to R.

Good luck friend,
Stretch


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Stretch said:


> OK, so I now I can give you a little bit of guidance based on what happened to me, no kids 22 yrs married.
> 
> My wife was hurting needing changes in our marriage and I ignored her cries for help. She left 14 months ago 4 days before our 22nd anniversary. I was devastated. I figured out that going dark and working on myself was the only way to survive and have a chance at R.
> 
> ...


Thanks Stretch. I definitely need to work on myself. This whole ordeal was a huge hit to my confidence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AnnRains (Oct 16, 2013)

stretch what do you mean by go dark and do a 180
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

CrazyBeautiful1 said:


> I'm right there with you. The 180 seemed to be a logical choice to satisfy both needs..Wanting my marriage back, as well as making me okay in the long run.
> 
> Hopefully it works out for you, in whatever way is best!


You as well! I'm worried about the holidays...if I can make it through them sticking to the 180 I should be just fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CrazyBeautiful1 (Oct 21, 2013)

bmark33 said:


> You as well! I'm worried about the holidays...if I can make it through them sticking to the 180 I should be just fine.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Uggggh. The holidays. I'm just hoping they go without more drama, 180 should help keep the peace!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

Divorce Busting by Michelle Weiner-Davis is the source of the 180.

A strategy to work on yourself and set the groundwork for R, if the other person wants it but prepares you for your new life no matter what the other person does.

Others might chime in to help me explain the going dark/180 approach.

Be strong and work on YOU,
Stretch


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Stbxw told me the other day she missed me...the love is still there somewhere. I wish she'd be willing to work it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

B,

You stay focused on yourself. Don't be aloof but let the stbx continue to simmer and let her continue to move towards you if that is to be.

Be ready to communicate your ground rules if she commits to R but let her suggest it.

Merry Christmas friend,
Stretch


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Stretch said:


> B,
> 
> You stay focused on yourself. Don't be aloof but let the stbx continue to simmer and let her continue to move towards you if that is to be.
> 
> ...


It HAS to be her idea.

And, you suggesting it will have the opposite effect.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks Stretch and Conrad. The old me would have taken that "I miss you" and do a full court pressure for R. The new me said "I miss you too" and then turned and left with our kids (I was picking them up for my days with them. Maybe I shouldn't have said I miss you to her? We can legally get divorced in a few months. Let's say things get progressively better between us...and we're a week away from finalizing. Do I suggest to her "we don't have to work on us right now, I can continue to give you space (a contention of hers during the in house limbo period...now live apart), but let's suspend the divorce"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

bmark33 said:


> Do I suggest to her "we don't have to work on us right now, I can continue to give you space (a contention of hers during the in house limbo period...now live apart), but let's suspend the divorce"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Translation: 

Hey Dear, 
Your needs and life are more importman than mine. 
Do what ever you feel - I'll be here postponing my life just for you. Even if you link up with another man - I am willing to be your 2nd option and wait around for as long as you want. 

Be Free. 

NOT ATTRACTIVE.

You are a MAN w/ options... Believe It!


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

I understand that ReGroup. But my wife is the same woman that vanquished her best friend of 10 years over a petty argument only to want to have that relationship back but was unable to talk to her friend about it due to her extreme high anxiety (mixed with pride).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

And I know for a fact I have options. I'm young, good looking, fun to be around...but my wife is the only option that would allow me to be with my kids and tuck them in every night. I'd rather be a full time father than a part time father.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> I understand that ReGroup. But my wife is the same woman that vanquished her best friend of 10 years over a petty argument only to want to have that relationship back but was unable to talk to her friend about it due to her extreme high anxiety (mixed with pride).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What was your wife's childhood like?


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

It was more difficult than she'd like to let on. Her mother took care of a disabled man for many many years and was gone from the house as a result. Her father was the primary caretaker of the kids but he didn't hold a steady job. She lost her brother when she was very young to cystic fibrosis and she has issues resulting from that. She thinks her brother did not love her because of normal sibling arguments. Her parents relationship was very contentious. One time the father chased after the mother with a hammer and another time the mother chased after the father with their car. The father five years ago was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and it has progressed rapidly. So I know she has issues from that as well. I think all of these things have contributed to her unhappiness but it seems I'm taking the brunt of the blame. Although I am not blameless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

bmark33 said:


> Stbxw told me the other day she missed me...the love is still there somewhere. I wish she'd be willing to work it out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Words mean nothing. What are her actions showing you?

When a WAW says "I miss you", she is just having a moment of sentimental feelings. She misses some aspect of her previous relationship with you. That's all.

It does not mean she loves you and wants to R.

Have you filed for D yet?

Are you supporting her financially?

Is there a PoSOM?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> It was more difficult than she'd like to let on. Her mother took care of a disabled man for many many years and was gone from the house as a result. Her father was the primary caretaker of the kids but he didn't hold a steady job. She lost her brother when she was very young to cystic fibrosis and she has issues resulting from that. She thinks her brother did not love her because of normal sibling arguments. Her parents relationship was very contentious. One time the father chased after the mother with a hammer and another time the mother chased after the father with their car. The father five years ago was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and it has progressed rapidly. So I know she has issues from that as well. I think all of these things have contributed to her unhappiness but it seems I'm taking the brunt of the blame. Although I am not blameless.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you realize how difficult it is to commit and stick with an adult relationship with a background like that?

She doesn't "get mad"... she IS mad. People that were supposed to love her did not - and she's furious with them. Unfortunately, you're the stand-in for her anger, that's why you get blamed for everything.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

bmark33 said:


> And I know for a fact I have options. I'm young, good looking, fun to be around...but my wife is the only option that would allow me to be with my kids and tuck them in every night. *I'd rather be a full time father than a part time father.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


All of us guys here wanted that. But at what price?

I have 50/50 custody of my kids. And no angry, disordered wife to live with! It's great!

You will adjust, your kids will adjust. And you will not miss the drama


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Do you realize how difficult it is to commit and stick with an adult relationship with a background like that?
> 
> She doesn't "get mad"... she IS mad. People that were supposed to love her did not - and she's furious with them. Unfortunately, you're the stand-in for her anger, that's why you get blamed for everything.


Dysfunctional people *cannot* have healthy, functional relationships.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ThreeStrikes said:


> Dysfunctional people *cannot* have healthy, functional relationships.


In rare cases, they will acknowledge their disorder and make strong efforts to self-regulate it.

But, it is true they are not able to "stop" their emotions from misinforming them.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

ThreeStrikes said:


> Words mean nothing. What are her actions showing you?
> 
> When a WAW says "I miss you", she is just having a moment of sentimental feelings. She misses some aspect of her previous relationship with you. That's all.
> 
> ...


She filed. Not supporting her financially. No POSOM from what I can tell (no unusual calls or texts made).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Do you realize how difficult it is to commit and stick with an adult relationship with a background like that?
> 
> She doesn't "get mad"... she IS mad. People that were supposed to love her did not - and she's furious with them. Unfortunately, you're the stand-in for her anger, that's why you get blamed for everything.


She's had those issues since I met her 14 years ago and we were able to have what I thought was a good relationship up until recently.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

She makes hasty decisions and blindly sticks with them...and then regrets them far down the road. I know she'll regret this down the road...but way down the road!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> She's had those issues since I met her 14 years ago and we were able to have what I thought was a good relationship up until recently.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You realize that if someone is disordered - and you try to stick it out and save them - the 15 year mark is where they statistically leave because you "didn't make them happy"

If you read Uptown's posts here, he's the best with the lowdown on this stuff.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You realize that if someone is disordered - and you try to stick it out and save them - the 15 year mark is where they statistically leave because you "didn't make them happy"
> 
> If you read Uptown's posts here, he's the best with the lowdown on this stuff.


My relationship ended at the 15 year mark.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Geez, seems like my marriage was doomed before it began.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Geez, seems like my marriage was doomed before it began.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


bmark,

You sound really sad. I realize many people in your life will say things like, "I know how you feel", etc.

And, it doesn't really offer much support, because you're sure that they really don't.

Guess what?

The people that post in this particular subforum DO know exactly how you feel. Almost to a person, we've all felt "it". Yes, it feels helpless and hopeless. It's difficult sometimes to even function and you just wish things weren't this way.

Here's the good news.

What we're telling you to do is the BEST way for you to move forward. AND, that does not necessarily mean without her.

Think about her family of origin - which you described.

The people that taught her about relationships... the people that "drew" her emotional map... were they warm and loving towards her, or were they cold and distant?


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Conrad said:


> bmark,
> 
> You sound really sad. I realize many people in your life will say things like, "I know how you feel", etc.
> 
> ...


Her parents relationship with eachother was definitely cold and unloving. Her relationship with each parent individually I wouldn't classify as being in either end of the spectrum. 

I am sad. And I'm pissed. I deserved better than a year of limbo and "I'm not sure I even want to try". After 14 years of being best friends, being a team with the kids to her moving out 5 months ago and we haven't spoken for more than 10 minutes to eachother since. I was her family and she was mine. Who turns their back like that on family?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

bmark33,

I strongly suspect an OM, or at the very least a toxic friend. But it really doesn't matter.

It takes two to make a marriage, but only one to end it. She has chosen to end it, for whatever reason. Something in her head is telling her she was unhappy.

It's possible you may never get closure. A lot of us haven't.

Here's the deal: Now is the time to begin to work on yourself. Focus on you.

1.) Go to IC. It will help with the grieving process. Also delve into your childhood issues. There are reasons you chose a woman like her.
2.) Exercise. Eat right. Get into shape.
3.) Continue being an awesome Dad.

It's probably a good idea to introduce you to the Drama Triangle:

An Overview of the Drama Triangle

Some questions:

Do you have a separation agreement in place?

What custody arrangement do you have?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Her parents relationship with eachother was definitely cold and unloving. Her relationship with each parent individually I wouldn't classify as being in either end of the spectrum.
> 
> I am sad. And I'm pissed. I deserved better than a year of limbo and "I'm not sure I even want to try". After 14 years of being best friends, being a team with the kids to her moving out 5 months ago and we haven't spoken for more than 10 minutes to eachother since. I was her family and she was mine. Who turns their back like that on family?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The people that drew her emotional map were cold.

She associates "cold" with love. I know that's screwed up.

But, if she has a posOM, she likely isn't even paying attention to you - at all.

So, as 3Strikes indicates, this is a key piece of information.

Do you have access to phone records, email, text logs, chat, and/or Facebook?


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

ThreeStrikes said:


> bmark33,
> 
> I strongly suspect an OM, or at the very least a toxic friend. But it really doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


How about 5 toxic friends? Her circle of friends are all divorced single moms...to a tee. I guess she wanted to be part of crew! We do have a custody agreement in place (a 3/2/2 schedule). We've both adhered to it. We've split all finances already. She's on her own doing her own thing and I'm doing my own thing. We split daycare costs down the middle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Conrad said:


> The people that drew her emotional map were cold.
> 
> She associates "cold" with love. I know that's screwed up.
> 
> ...


When we shared cell accounts I did not see any abnormal texts or calls. I don't suspect another party. She says she wants to work on herself and be left alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> When we shared cell accounts I did not see any abnormal texts or calls. I don't suspect another party. She says she wants to work on herself and be left alone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have enough money for a private investigator?


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Conrad said:


> You have enough money for a private investigator?


Not after splitting up our assets.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Not after splitting up our assets.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She and the toxic friends party much?


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Nothing extreme. They'll go out to dinner or stay in and drink some wine. Maybe once every other week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Nothing extreme. They'll go out to dinner or stay in and drink some wine. Maybe once every other week.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like a coven.


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Sounds like a coven.


Seven more members and they'll have one.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

I was progressing well the past two months but with Xmas approaching it has really depressed me. They're doing all the things I love to do without me. And the things I do with the kids just isn't the same without her. Depressed, lonely, hurt, abandoned. Need to be stronger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Why do I care so much? Why the hell am I fighting this? She's been rejecting me for years now. For two years prior to limbo, a year of limbo, and 5 months of separation. She hasn't taken one step back towards me. Not one. Not once has she called to ask me how I was doing or to catch up since she left. And I'm the idiot still caring...still wanting. Still wanting the scraps she used to feed me but no longer does. Yearning for scraps. Pathetic. Codependent. 

But at least now I don't let her see it.

Why can't I get it out of my head the woman I married is gone. Completely different person. Why can't i replace the idealized version of her with who she is now? I have owned my failures in the marriage. She hasn't owned one of hers at least not to me. 

She asked for copies of all of our family pics taken over the years. All I see we're good times and she acts like it never happened. Like she was never happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Why do I care so much? Why the hell am I fighting this? She's been rejecting me for years now. For two years prior to limbo, a year of limbo, and 5 months of separation. She hasn't taken one step back towards me. Not one. Not once has she called to ask me how I was doing or to catch up since she left. And I'm the idiot still caring...still wanting. Still wanting the scraps she used to feed me but no longer does. Yearning for scraps. Pathetic. Codependent.
> 
> But at least now I don't let her see it.
> 
> ...


What if she wasn't?

Is that somehow your fault?


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

I feel like it is somewhat my fault but more the feeling of failure. Not being able to despite my intentions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> I feel like it is somewhat my fault but more the feeling of failure. Not being able to despite my intentions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So, you're going to own your emotional response and hers also?


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Conrad said:


> So, you're going to own your emotional response and hers also?


Point taken.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

"They're doing things I loved to do"

Short of spending time in the ladies restroom, I don't see any reason why you can't do them yourself?

My first Xmas alone last year, as part of my 180, rolled my sorry ass down to Lowes, bought a tree, turned on some music, poured a ****tail and decorated my tree. Loved that tree, the smell in the house everytime I came home was awesome.

It's your life, live it!

Stretch


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Stretch said:


> "They're doing things I loved to do"
> 
> Short of spending time in the ladies restroom, I don't see any reason why you can't do them yourself?
> 
> ...


I have made sure I've done the things I love to do. I took the kids to go see Santa and we went and got a tree together as well. And while I had a good time there was always an underlying tone that something was missing. Hopefully, that will fade with time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

I remember my IC telling me that all of the post-D "firsts", like holidays and anniversaries, will have a sadness to them.

It's normal.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Another tough day but I think I handled it ok. Went to stbxw house to drop off her car seat. They had just finished opening presents (I'll have kids Xmas eve and most of Xmas day). I assembled my sons bike that he received (she said she would do it but son insisted I do it) and she needed help changing light bulbs in kitchen ceiling (she's too short to reach). She offered me dinner for the first time since she split 5 months ago. I was hungry, initially accepted, but then declined. Not sure why I declined but felt it was time for me to go. It felt normal again...just family hanging out at Xmas. Haven't brought up our M to stbxw in quite sometime. Everytime I did it was same old story...arguments/rejection. I think I've had enough rejection from her. Didn't go to hug her this time around...just kissed the kids and left. She texts a minute later "are u ok?" First time she asked that in 5 months. I didn't respond.

Don't know what any if that means if anything?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Seems like she noticed that you are detaching.


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## JohnC_depressed (Dec 6, 2012)

bmark33 said:


> Another tough day but I think I handled it ok. Went to stbxw house to drop off her car seat. They had just finished opening presents (I'll have kids Xmas eve and most of Xmas day). I assembled my sons bike that he received (she said she would do it but son insisted I do it) and she needed help changing light bulbs in kitchen ceiling (she's too short to reach). She offered me dinner for the first time since she split 5 months ago. I was hungry, initially accepted, but then declined. Not sure why I declined but felt it was time for me to go. It felt normal again...just family hanging out at Xmas. Haven't brought up our M to stbxw in quite sometime. Everytime I did it was same old story...arguments/rejection. I think I've had enough rejection from her. *Didn't go to hug her this time around...just kissed the kids and left. She texts a minute later "are u ok?" First time she asked that in 5 months. I didn't respond.*
> 
> Don't know what any if that means if anything?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You handled it EXACTLY right. It doesn't mean anything other than maybe - hey I dont have as much control over him as I used to - gee that sucks. F' her.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Need some guidance here. We did not spend Holloween or Thanksgiving together. It was just too soon from separation. I still want to reconcile but have not been pressing her as of late. Slowly our relationship has improved (although the smallest of improvements). Should I invite her to my house to open presents with kids (she already opened presents she bought at her house; no invite to me) or should I let her stew in her decision to divorce and show her what Xmas morning is like minus family (her family lives out if area)?

The kids will have fun either way. We go to my parents house and all their cousins are there to play with.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

bmark33 said:


> Need some guidance here. We did not spend Holloween or Thanksgiving together. It was just too soon from separation. I still want to reconcile but have not been pressing her as of late. Slowly our relationship has improved (although the smallest of improvements). Should I invite her to my house to open presents with kids (she already opened presents she bought at her house; no invite to me) or should I let her stew in her decision to divorce and show her what Xmas morning is like minus family (her family lives out if area)?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keep 180 and let her stew. She didn't invite you to hers - you'll just appear weak if you invite her to yours.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Need some guidance here. We did not spend Holloween or Thanksgiving together. It was just too soon from separation. I still want to reconcile but have not been pressing her as of late. Slowly our relationship has improved (although the smallest of improvements). Should I invite her to my house to open presents with kids (she already opened presents she bought at her house; no invite to me) or should I let her stew in her decision to divorce and show her what Xmas morning is like minus family (her family lives out if area)?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do not invite her.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

That's what I was thinking. Now enough about her...I'm going to enjoy this with my kids. Hope you all do too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> That's what I was thinking. Now enough about her...I'm going to enjoy this with my kids. Hope you all do too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hang in there brother. Better days ahead.

It has to give you some satisfaction that she's actually noticing the cold.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Just found out my employer is selling the business so now have the added stress of worrying about my job. 2012 and 2013 = worse years of my life. A lot of that self inflicted. Looking forward to 2014 and taking back control and willing myself to a great year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

I'm still progressing with the 180. I have so many temptations to revert back and reach out to her and try to talk/rationalize with her to reconcile. But now I just don't. Starting to feel like our M was another life. It's getting easier to resist these temptations. She's so stubborn even if she wanted to reconcile she couldn't make the first move. I've been going through ReGroups thread and my stbxw is so different than his. We have minimal interaction...seems like mine just wants to pretend last 15 years never happened...like we never happened. Seems like this is so easy for her. Just tossed me out like a jigsaw puzzle piece that wouldn't fit anywhere.

I have this letter I'm writing to her. I feel like I need to do something or whatever is left on her end, if anything, will just die. I know her well. Once a decision is made she won't let herself reconsider. The letter just thanks her for the memories, owns my faults in the marriage, calls her out on hers, let's her know what I've learned about myself (over the past 6 months), how I don't want to reconcile but just want to suspend D so we can continue to work on ourselves, and let our new relationship continue with the momentum we have now and perhaps reconcile at a later time when were both ready. I know I shouldn't send it. Maybe I won't/will.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

She shares the anger with Mrs. ReGroup.

She just expresses it passively, rather than aggressively.

Trust me, she blames you for everything - in exactly the same way Mrs. ReGroup blames ReG.

If you send that letter, you will regret it forever.

We'll make you a deal. Finish it. Post it here.

We'll all read it.

By the time we're done commenting on it, you'll want to burn it

But, it will likely be a good exercise for you… to get it out.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

It's quite long and not done yet but I'll post it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## split_open_and_melt (Dec 15, 2013)

I sent the letter. Did me absolutely no good and she didn't even reply. Only seemed to further aggravate her blame shifting. Found out later that the weekend I sent it she was at the coast with her new boyfriend and our kids...

Wish I hadn't. My advice, don't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

split_open_and_melt said:


> I sent the letter. Did me absolutely no good and she didn't even reply. Only seemed to further aggravate her blame shifting. Found out later that the weekend I sent it she was at the coast with her new boyfriend and our kids...
> 
> Wish I hadn't. My advice, don't.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Still would help to post it - to help him work on himself.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

bmark33 said:


> Just found out my employer is selling the business so now have the added stress of worrying about my job. 2012 and 2013 = worse years of my life. A lot of that self inflicted. Looking forward to 2014 and taking back control and willing myself to a great year.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like a great opportunity to reboot your life.


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

Bmark,

I agree with Conrad. It will help you to get your thoughts and feelings out with the letter, but DO NOT send it. I can promise you that she will not care.

Post it here and get it out.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Honorbound said:


> Bmark,
> 
> I agree with Conrad. It will help you to get your thoughts and feelings out with the letter, but DO NOT send it. I can promise you that she will not care.
> 
> Post it here and get it out.


She might care.

BUT, it will only firmly establish bmark as "Plan B"


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Don't send the letter. It won't help. Just keep repeating to yourself: 

"This was your choice, not mine, I can't make you love me."

The hardest part is believing it. I struggle every day. 

Remember, you are worthy, competent, and you belong!


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## Heidi2005 (Oct 27, 2013)

Write the letter for your healing journey. However, do not send it!! Shred it or tear it up after you write it.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Pictureless said:


> Don't send the letter. It won't help. Just keep repeating to yourself:
> 
> "This was your choice, not mine, I can't make you love me."
> 
> ...


Thanks for the kind words. I believe her when she says ILYBINILWY. I'm confident that if she put her heart into R that we could get back to a good place. But I think that because of her parents marriage she was never really open or trusting enough to be in love with someone. Looking back I'm not sure she was ever really "in love" with me. I believe her unhappiness is derived from many things, one of which is our difficulties within the marriage, but the majority of unhappiness comes from situations I had nothing to do with. Her parents marriage, her brother's death, her feelings that her brother didn't love her, her father's Alzheimer's, and more. All of those things were out of her control but the marriage is not. She's using our marriage as the scapegoat for all these other issues. I am a fixer, so I want to help her through these issues. She is my family and just like any other family member who needs help I would want to do what I possibly could to help out so it's been tough for me to just sit back and be still (180). But at the same time I know she has to recognize these on her own and want to fix them. I feel like if I expose these issues to her in the letter then maybe, just maybe, it will plant the seed that will eventually help her seek out the help she needs. I admit this is an extremely difficult thing to do without coming off as blaming her or faulting her for our demise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

bmark33 said:


> Thanks for the kind words. I believe her when she says ILYBINILWY. I'm confident that if she put her heart into R that we could get back to a good place. But I think that because of her parents marriage she was never really open or trusting enough to be in love with someone. Looking back I'm not sure she was ever really "in love" with me. I believe her unhappiness is derived from many things, one of which is our difficulties within the marriage, but the majority of unhappiness comes from situations I had nothing to do with. Her parents marriage, her brother's death, her feelings that her brother didn't love her, her father's Alzheimer's, and more. All of those things were out of her control but the marriage is not. She's using our marriage as the scapegoat for all these other issues. I am a fixer, so I want to help her through these issues. She is my family and just like any other family member who needs help I would want to do what I possibly could to help out so it's been tough for me to just sit back and be still (180). But at the same time I know she has to recognize these on her own and want to fix them. I feel like if I expose these issues to her in the letter then maybe, just maybe, it will plant the seed that will eventually help her seek out the help she needs. I admit this is an extremely difficult thing to do without coming off as blaming her or faulting her for our demise.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're welcome. Good luck


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

180 fail for me yesterday. But fxxx her. She's a cold hearted bxxxx. She admits our marriage failed in large part because of her issues. She says "what makes you think I want to fix my issues?" She's content with sweeping it under the rug, breaking up her family. She says after the kids it's too hard to maintain a relationship. Hey genius, if you didn't have a relationship you wouldn't have the kids. Makes me a sperm donor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> 180 fail for me yesterday. But fxxx her. She's a cold hearted bxxxx. She admits our marriage failed in large part because of her issues. She says "what makes you think I want to fix my issues?" She's content with sweeping it under the rug, breaking up her family. She says after the kids it's too hard to maintain a relationship. Hey genius, if you didn't have a relationship you wouldn't have the kids. Makes me a sperm donor.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's not about you.

But, you persist in making it about you.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Conrad said:


> It's not about you.
> 
> But, you persist in making it about you.


I do. I take it personally.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

It's not your fault. This was her choice, not yours. You can't make someone love you. Let go. Don't worry about tomorrow because there's enough to worry about today. You are worthy, competent, and you belong. You are free now if you want it.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Pictureless said:


> It's not your fault. This was her choice, not yours. You can't make someone love you. Let go. Don't worry about tomorrow because there's enough to worry about today. You are worthy, competent, and you belong. You are free now if you want it.


I'm just trying to accept the fact that while I loved her more everyday despite her faults she loved me less because of mine. I'll get there. Meanwhile the pain is deep. I come here because I know people here can relate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

bmark33 said:


> I'm just trying to accept the fact that while I loved her more everyday despite her faults she loved me less because of mine. I'll get there. Meanwhile the pain is deep. I come here because I know people here can relate.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If she loved you, she would see past and overlook all your faults. People who love you love you just the way you are!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> I do. I take it personally.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The opinion of one person is enough to destroy your self-worth?

See yourself hovering @50k and observe your reactions to her abuse.

Everytime you give yourself permission to fire back…. every time you give yourself permission to engage in her nonsense and let her suck you in, it's a subtle form of blame shifting.

It's you allowing her to hijack you emotionally and steal your power.

Yes, she is an emotional vampire.

Staunch the flow of the hot blood she so delights in sucking out of you.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

My 180 fail a couple of days ago has sent me reeling. Realize it wasn't a true 180 anyway since I was hoping for something in return from stbxw. But I could tell that going 180 did help me progress so back to square one but this time I'm not expecting anything from her out of it. Keeping the hope alive for our M just kills me when she rejects me. Again and again and again. I'm not letting her do that to me anymore. 

So I'm mourning my marriage right now. I lost my best friend of 14 years. She's cut me out of her life so harshly and so quickly it's stunning. I'm mad at her for giving up on us...enraged really. When we married we didn't sign up for just the good times. We promised to work through the bad as well. But she didn't keep that end of the promise. It's a shame because it really was a fixable situation...she obviously sees it differently. 

All in all. I loved being married to her. Or perhaps I just loved being married? Both? I don't see a point in finishing the letter I was thinking about sending. Definitely not sending it now. I know what I brought to the table as a husband and a father and if she thinks that her future looks better without me then good luck to her. 

My New Year's Resolution is to let her go. To let go of all the dreams and plans I had for us and our family. TO BE AT PEACE. Because I'm really tired of this being always on my mind and bringing me down.


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## jeffthechef (Sep 10, 2013)

I absolutely know your pain Bmark. Don't hold back your emotions. I wrote a letter a day to Mrs. Chef, in the beginning, varying between "why can't we try and fix this" to "I f!cking hate you, you b!tch! Then proceeded to tare each one up. It helps I think.

Time is your friend. You are strong. You've got this.

Don't try and understand her, you will lose your mind.

Post here as much as you want to.

You are free.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

jeffthechef said:


> I absolutely know your pain Bmark. Don't hold back your emotions. I wrote a letter a day to Mrs. Chef, in the beginning, varying between "why can't we try and fix this" to "I f!cking hate you, you b!tch! Then proceeded to tare each one up. It helps I think.
> 
> Time is your friend. You are strong. You've got this.
> 
> ...


Thanks Chef. How long did it take for you to recover? I've been fighting a losing battle for over a year and a half.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jeffthechef (Sep 10, 2013)

Mrs. Chef first mentioned separation 7 months ago, then left in September. Since September I've been focused on me, and moving on as best as possible. I've had many backsliding moments. She would say things like how much she missed me, that would pull me back. She would flirt often, ask for hugs and pull me back. Tell me she's horny etc.

I've seen her every day (only one car), which made moving on near impossible, and the hopium addiction going strong.

She left 4 months ago, I feel good, but bad days still happen, and I care less about her every day.

Realizing Mrs. Chef isn't my best friend helped a lot. No friend would ever do the sh!t she's done. 

As Conrad would say, Submit to the Truth. You must.

I still have fleeting moments of desire for Mrs. Chef, or more accurately; the fantasy of what we had.

But, the last 2 weeks specifically, I've made great progress towards freedom from that nuttsy girl. I'm aware though, sad times can be one song, one photo, one piece of clothing away.

Feeling lonely and sad about this is normal,and expected. Own it, feel it, let it go. 

Just know, after you submit to the truth of who she is, and more importantly; who you are, it only gets better with time. How Long?

It's up to you brother, it's up to you.

Do you exercise? If you don't, start. Like, tomorrow. Get your ass up and move.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

jeffthechef said:


> Mrs. Chef first mentioned separation 7 months ago, then left in September. Since September I've been focused on me, and moving on as best as possible. I've had many backsliding moments. She would say things like how much she missed me, that would pull me back. She would flirt often, ask for hugs and pull me back. Tell me she's horny etc.
> 
> I've seen her every day (only one car), which made moving on near impossible, and the hopium addiction going strong.
> 
> ...


I started working out a couple of months ago with my brother. That has helped. I know I'm holding myself back. It's all on me. I think I'm missing the fantasy as well...I wanted us all to be happy. I wanted her to show me love (and maybe she did but not the way I wanted her to display it). During the marriage I initiated all physical and emotional intimacy. My fantasy was that she would come around and reciprocate. To come to me with loving eyes and to kiss me, to hug me, to sexually desire me. But it was never to be. Says she's not like that. Says I was needy for asking that of her. She convinced me I was needy. But I know better now. What I was asking for was not me being needy. It is a requirement for me (and I think most relationships) to feel loved in return. What I need to get through my thick skull is that it's not my fault she didn't reciprocate. She has issues that prevent her from doing so. She should have been able to reciprocate but she just couldn't for whatever reason. I was a good husband; am a good father; not perfect but deserved that love from my wife. 

I need to be thankful on what she has given me: many great memories, two beautiful kids, recognition of what my boundaries are, and other lessons learned to make my next relationship successful. Although I'm not sure I can fully open my heart again...knowing how much pain can be caused from someone you'd think would never hurt you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> I started working out a couple of months ago with my brother. That has helped. I know I'm holding myself back. It's all on me. I think I'm missing the fantasy as well...I wanted us all to be happy. I wanted her to show me love (and maybe she did but not the way I wanted her to display it). During the marriage I initiated all physical and emotional intimacy. My fantasy was that she would come around and reciprocate. To come to me with loving eyes and to kiss me, to hug me, to sexually desire me. But it was never to be. Says she's not like that. Says I was needy for asking that of her. She convinced me I was needy. But I know better now. What I was asking for was not me being needy. It is a requirement for me (and I think most relationships) to feel loved in return. What I need to get through my thick skull is that it's not my fault she didn't reciprocate. She has issues that prevent her from doing so. She should have been able to reciprocate but she just couldn't for whatever reason. I was a good husband; am a good father; not perfect but deserved that love from my wife.
> 
> I need to be thankful on what she has given me: many great memories, two beautiful kids, recognition of what my boundaries are, and other lessons learned to make my next relationship successful. Although I'm not sure I can fully open my heart again...knowing how much pain can be caused from someone you'd think would never hurt you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What do you mean by "fully open your heart"?


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Conrad said:


> What do you mean by "fully open your heart"?


I guess I mean I'll be more guarded. Not sure if I can trust someone that much again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

bmark, 

During your relationship - did you have issues standing up for yourself?

Did she always have her way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> bmark,
> 
> During your relationship - did you have issues standing up for yourself?
> 
> ...


We really didn't have too many arguments. She says that when we did argue I wouldn't budge so after awhile she wouldn't even bother voicing her opinion. Wasn't worth the argument for her. Of course resentments built on her end as a result. I see it differently. I was a doormat for sure. I avoided arguments because I was aware of her inability to forgive. Arguments that I thought were resolved were not for her. They just silently festered in her. I guess we were both guilty of keeping things internally.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> I guess I mean I'll be more guarded. Not sure if I can trust someone that much again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Part of this process is evaluating IF what you were doing is/was healthy.

Was it?

What were you counting on her to do for you/with you?


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

bmark33 said:


> We really didn't have too many arguments. She says that when we did argue I wouldn't budge so after awhile she wouldn't even bother voicing her opinion. Wasn't worth the argument for her. Of course resentments built on her end as a result. I see it differently. I was a doormat for sure. I avoided arguments because I was aware of her inability to forgive. Arguments that I thought were resolved were not for her. They just silently festered in her. I guess we were both guilty of keeping things internally.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok, 

You seem to realize the issues at hand.

I'll give you some insight into my relationship - Mrs. RG is stunningly attractive...
When she first met me, I did what others in her past didn't - I didn't put her on a pedestal. I was the one guy that took her to task when it needed to happen.

The reaction? She wouldn't stop chasing me, keep her hands off me, etc... 

In her mind: Who is this F'ing guy? 99% of the guys on this planet would do my bidding, but this guy... Won't. Why not?

I'm getting divorced now because I stopped being that guy.

In your next relationship, be that guy... It's likely your wife wasn't affectionate enough because she most likely felt she had you in the palms of her hands... Next time, have the edge I had. Be that guy. It won't fail.

Read Conrad's Fitness Test: Step 1.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ReGroup said:


> Ok,
> 
> You seem to realize the issues at hand.
> 
> ...


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> Ok,
> 
> You seem to realize the issues at hand.
> 
> ...


Just read it. She certainly gave me fitness tests. And like you passed most of them at the beginning. Then started failing them once I felt like I was losing her...well I was losing her. So of course I did everything to try and please her. I couldn't figure out why my extra efforts to do as she wanted wasn't paying dividends. She just tested me more and I kept failing. Too late to save this relationship it seems. No more tests from her; just radio silence. At least I know of the fitness tests now and better prepared to play a game I didn't even know existed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Just read it. She certainly gave me fitness tests. And like you passed most of them at the beginning. Then started failing them once I felt like I was losing her...well I was losing her. So of course I did everything to try and please her. I couldn't figure out why my extra efforts to do as she wanted wasn't paying dividends. She just tested me more and I kept failing. Too late to save this relationship it seems. No more tests from her; just radio silence. At least I know of the fitness tests now and better prepared to play a game I didn't even know existed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's like riding a motorcycle - counterintuitive.

When you feel unsteady on a bike, the BEST thing to do is speed up.

Yet, your instincts tell you to slow down.

We need to change our instincts to win this.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Just read it. She certainly gave me fitness tests. And like you passed most of them at the beginning. Then started failing them once I felt like I was losing her...well I was losing her. So of course I did everything to try and please her. I couldn't figure out why my extra efforts to do as she wanted wasn't paying dividends. She just tested me more and I kept failing. Too late to save this relationship it seems. No more tests from her; just radio silence. At least I know of the fitness tests now and better prepared to play a game I didn't even know existed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Radio silence is the ultimate fitness test.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Radio silence is the ultimate fitness test. Not sure it's a test anymore after almost 6 months of it. I think she's done testing.

Went out last night with my brother and a friend to the downtown scene. Going out there to the bars doesn't interest me in the least bit. I see all the women there and absolutely none of them do "it" for me. I mean plenty of them were pretty but I'm just uninterested. I recognize I'm just not ready for anything And then I look at the guys and think..."stbxw thinks she's going to find better than me out there? She's out of her mind." Although she insists she's not looking for anyone either. I believe her...she's just as worn out as me from what we've been through the last couple of years. I go to the bar scene only for a few drinks but mainly to get out of the house and to hang out with people I enjoy being with. 

Tonight I took the family pics and started dividing them up for each of us. It was painful to look at these pictures because I recognize what was lost but at the same time they ARE good memories and at least we made them. I'm assuming stbxw believes our marriage was more bad than good (or else why file for divorce right?) and it really puzzles me how she can view it that way.

My current living situation needs to be improved. I work in city A which is 20 miles north of marital home; marital home is 20 miles north of parents home. When I don't have kids I'm at marital home with 3 roommates. Their rent basically covers the entire rent so it's cheap for me to stay there. I've known roommates for quite some time and they have been a great support group for me. I don't want to have kids in marital home because with the roommates it's not really conducive with raising kids. When I have kids I'm at parents house. They are great support as well as they help with the kids and being around people that really love me no matter what. So keeping marital home helps with commute which doesn't seem far but traffic is usually stop and go the whole way. I'm able to save money with this situation which helps with my goal of buying a condo but now I'm wanting a homebase of my own because the back and forth is making it impossible to settle down. My mother cooks dinner for my siblings that live there and in turn my kids but I'm feeling less of a parent because I should be cooking for my kids. I know they're trying to help though...and it does help when I'm overwhelmed. Get a place of my own? I want to but that also means I'd be extending the time it would take for me to have my down payment ready. 

I still think about the whole mess this situation is but I read somewhere to visualize crumpling the thoughts like a piece of paper and throwing it away. Sounded corny but shoot it's actually worked. I can't do that when I'm sleeping though. When I'm sleeping I'm actually dreaming that I'm in the limbo stage when stbxw and I still lived together. Literally in my dreams there is still hope for successful R. In the dreams the hope feels good...there's still a chance. Then I wake up and realize NOPE. Just a dream...crumple it up and throw it away. Pathetic really...night visions of being in limbo and being happy about it. Big sign that I've got some ways to go to work on myself...subconsciously I'm still a doormat with little self respect and no boundaries. I hope those dreams stop manifesting themselves soon.

Have been getting some good workouts in. I use my anger as fuel and motivation to bench press (or whatever I'm working on) the extra weight. Physically I can see a difference in my arms, chest, and shoulders over the past few months. Now I just need to keep that up and eat more. Trying to get my weight up to 175. I've been 155 since I graduated HS. Now in my early 30s. I'm 6 foot tall and I've always wanted to pack on the muscle but never had the time before with the wife and kids. Now I have the time when she had the kids. My metabolism runs like Usain Bolt so I just have to keep eating protein. The gym has been a godsend. 

Physically, emotionally, spiritually...all a work in progress...perhaps this situation is just what I needed because I was probably on auto pilot and complacent on those fronts for a good while.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Was at stbxw apt to pickup kids and she got mad at me for something trivial. Stbxw was telling daughter that she was angry to which I replied "big surprise". Smart axx comment by me but truthful. She insisted that I apologize. I didn't (I don't think there was anything to apologize for).Then replied "Its pointless to apologize to someone who isn't capable of accepting one". Stbxw shot me the evil eyes the whole time I was there and I remember thinking to myself that I'm free from that now and that her evil eyes didn't bother me anymore. I used to tiptoe around when she was like that before. Progress I guess?

I think my feelings for her are fading. I am now capable of seeing her for whole self and not just my idealized version. She has some great qualities but she's also: selfish, pessimistic, uptight, unforgiving, entitled, and huge blameshifter (won't take any blame). A cold fish through and through. She wasn't always that way...I used to make excuses for her...life stresses, bills, kids, etc. No more...there's no excuse to be like that the majority of time. 

Oh and the old credit card account we used to share (I'm no longer attached to this account) sent me an email for her monthly statement (I guess she hasn't changed email notification settings). She's managed to rack up $4500 in debt in a few months. We (see me) had always paid entire bill every month and were never in debt. I'm saving up more money/month than I've ever done before. I was the money manager in our relationship. A new skill she needs to learn. I'm watching a train wreck in slow motion. Her problem now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> Ok,
> 
> You seem to realize the issues at hand.
> 
> ...


I used the same approach with my STBXH. He was also stunningly attractive. He asked for my phone number and I gave him a fake one. He tracked me down and pursued me heavily because I didn't put him on that pedestal. Low and behold, one of the reasons he now wants a divorce is because I withhold putting him on a pedestal while everyone else around him does. I put him on a pedestal when I married him. I guess the point I'm trying to make is sometimes that approach can backfire later on.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

I believe if the two partners are actting honestly then they both would be putting each other on a pedestal. It's when things become unequal that problems start.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Pictureless said:


> I believe if the two partners are actting honestly then they both would be putting each other on a pedestal. It's when things become unequal that problems start.


I did have her on a pedestal. Probably more than I should have though. She said she didn't want to put me on a pedestal because she believes it only serve to boost my ego and confidence. I'm not sure that she even believed those words or it was just a cover-up to the fact that she did not love me anymore. Eventually I had to lay it out explicitly that I needed an emotional and physical connection with her to which her reply was that I was needy. If needing to be felt loved and important by my wife is needy then sure I'm guilty. I don't think I was asking for anything that a normal married couple would want. Literally everything I did in the past few years was wrong. I could do no right. A very difficult woman to please. Like I said a cold fish through and through.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

bmark33 said:


> I did have her on a pedestal. Probably more than I should have though. She said she didn't want to put me on a pedestal because she believes it only serve to boost my ego and confidence. I'm not sure that she even believed those words or it was just a cover-up to the fact that she did not love me anymore. Eventually I had to lay it out explicitly that I needed an emotional and physical connection with her to which her reply was that I was needy. If needing to be felt loved and important by my wife is needy then sure I'm guilty. I don't think I was asking for anything that a normal married couple would want. Literally everything I did in the past few years was wrong. I could do no right. A very difficult woman to please. Like I said a cold fish through and through.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It sounds all too familiar my friend. Are you sure you're not talking about my wife? :smthumbup:


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> I did have her on a pedestal. Probably more than I should have though. She said she didn't want to put me on a pedestal because she believes it only serve to boost my ego and confidence. I'm not sure that she even believed those words or it was just a cover-up to the fact that she did not love me anymore. Eventually I had to lay it out explicitly that I needed an emotional and physical connection with her to which her reply was that I was needy. If needing to be felt loved and important by my wife is needy then sure I'm guilty. I don't think I was asking for anything that a normal married couple would want. Literally everything I did in the past few years was wrong. I could do no right. A very difficult woman to please. Like I said a cold fish through and through.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


bmark,

What did you do about it?


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Conrad said:


> bmark,
> 
> What did you do about it?


I kept trying to appease her at my own expense. Tried to placate myself with the scraps she gave. Obviously didn't help the situation. Basically did everything to make it worse while thinking it was the best way to solve it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> I kept trying to appease her at my own expense. Tried to placate myself with the scraps she gave. Obviously didn't help the situation. Basically did everything to make it worse while thinking it was the best way to solve it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The instincts of a manipulative niceguy.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Conrad said:


> The instincts of a manipulative niceguy.


Can you expound on that a bit?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Can you expound on that a bit?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's important to realize the costs of not standing up for yourself.

All human beings are self-interested. We want things to work out the way we want them to work out.

Many many married men will cave in to their wives on issue after issue - not wanting the drama, or whatever of denying her vision of how things should be.

But, even when caving in, we'll have some plan about how to turn things our way going forward - even though we surrendered in the current situation.

It's much more direct and honest to have good healthy personal boundaries.

Stand up for yourself when they're crossed, instead of secretly plotting in some covert contract about how to turn things around.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Conrad said:


> It's important to realize the costs of not standing up for yourself.
> 
> All human beings are self-interested. We want things to work out the way we want them to work out.
> 
> ...


Thanks Conrad. That all makes sense. Wish I knew these things before my marriage fell apart! 

On a side note...I've been pretty much ousted from her life other than the kids exchange...when we do exchange she can't even look me in the eye...what's that about?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

bmark33 said:


> Thanks Conrad. That all makes sense. Wish I knew these things before my marriage fell apart!
> 
> On a side note...I*'ve been pretty much ousted from her life other than the kids exchange.*..when we do exchange she can't even look me in the eye...what's that about?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is exactly what you want. Be thankful for it. No drama.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Thanks Conrad. That all makes sense. Wish I knew these things before my marriage fell apart!
> 
> On a side note...I've been pretty much ousted from her life other than the kids exchange...when we do exchange she can't even look me in the eye...what's that about?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Guilt

Do not help her with it.

Intentionally make eye contact and be all smiles.

If she calls, get off the phone quickly - always be busy.

If she texts, don't answer for hours.

You get the idea.

Full life - without her.

All you were waiting for was for her to get out of your way.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

ThreeStrikes said:


> This is exactly what you want. Be thankful for it. No drama.


Yeah you're right. Much better than fighting/arguing all the time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Feeling angry tonight. S4 has a 102 degree temp and he really wants his mom. I'm more than capable of caring for him when he's ill but I'm pissed he just doesn't have the option to be comforted by his mom right now. She took that away from him. 

I'm a very loving dad and I'm doing a good job of comforting him myself...but sometimes a boy just wants his mommy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Feeling angry tonight. S4 has a 102 degree temp and he really wants his mom. I'm more than capable of caring for him when he's ill but I'm pissed he just doesn't have the option to be comforted by his mom right now. She took that away from him.
> 
> I'm a very loving dad and I'm doing a good job of comforting him myself...but sometimes a boy just wants his mommy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Observe that emotion. Righteous anger is good. Motivational.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

I've been focusing on myself a lot lately and it's been paying off. I've been hitting the gym hard the past few months with my brother and roomate (who's a personal trainer). I go about 4 times a week and I'm seeing the results. Bigger chest, arms, shoulders. More definition. Trying to bulk up to 175 lbs from 155 lbs. Need to eat, eat, eat.

Playing poker again. I literally grew up playing cards with my dad, grandpa, and uncles. I'd have my bag of nickels, dimes, quarters and we'd play various forms of stud poker (baseball, queens game, Chinese lo-ball). Grew into me playing online poker to which I was pretty successful (enabled her not to work for a couple years). I stopped because of stbxw of course. She didn't like me "gambling" which I understood but I tracked every dollar I put on the table. Right down to my hourly rate I was taking in. After showing her my years of tracking and that I simply never had a losing year I proved to her I wasn't "gambling" per se. Well then it became I was taking advantage of people that didn't know better. I stopped playing to keep the peace. I even told her point blank..."I like to play...it's part of who I am". I resented her for her position on this and her pressure to make me quit but I blame myself for giving in. I won't ever do that again. It's nice to be able to check raise bluff again.

Locked eyes with a beautiful Mediterranean woman the other night at a popular bar downtown. Literally a staring contest as she walked by and neither of us budged. She walked by 10 minutes later and same thing. Friend of mine saw it too and said "those are a set of f*** me eyes if I've ever seen em". They certainly were but I'm not quite ready to approach a woman...yet...definitely was tempting.

Doing things that I want to do. Don't have to answer to anybody. Confidence growing. The light at the other end of the tunnel is in sight. Moving forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> I've been focusing on myself a lot lately and it's been paying off. I've been hitting the gym hard the past few months with my brother and roomate (who's a personal trainer). I go about 4 times a week and I'm seeing the results. Bigger chest, arms, shoulders. More definition. Trying to bulk up to 175 lbs from 155 lbs. Need to eat, eat, eat.
> 
> Playing poker again. I literally grew up playing cards with my dad, grandpa, and uncles. I'd have my bag of nickels, dimes, quarters and we'd play various forms of stud poker (baseball, queens game, Chinese lo-ball). Grew into me playing online poker to which I was pretty successful (enabled her not to work for a couple years). I stopped because of stbxw of course. She didn't like me "gambling" which I understood but I tracked every dollar I put on the table. Right down to my hourly rate I was taking in. After showing her my years of tracking and that I simply never had a losing year I proved to her I wasn't "gambling" per se. Well then it became I was taking advantage of people that didn't know better. I stopped playing to keep the peace. I even told her point blank..."I like to play...it's part of who I am". I resented her for her position on this and her pressure to make me quit but I blame myself for giving in. I won't ever do that again. It's nice to be able to check raise bluff again.
> 
> ...


Make up your mind never to submit again - unless it's mutual.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Stbxw,

Not sure what happened to the person that I fell in love with. She was fun and easy going. Seems as though I haven't seen her since before the kids were born. Kids are tough yes...but that's not an excuse to turn into what you are now. You convinced me your unhappiness was my fault. It wasn't. My love for you grew every day in our marriage as it was supposed to. You just withdrew effort and put stepping stones down that led to divorce. 

I should have seen via your sister and your mom. A family of martyrs...poor pity you the world is against you. Bullxxxx. You three are the same...confronted with a problem? Blame everyone else and run and hide. Close your eyes and pretend it doesn't exist. The anxiety shoots through the roof if you actually have to resolve something. My fault for allowing such cowardice. 

I realize I don't love you anymore. The you that you are now isn't the same person I married. I was so blinded by my love for that person I was fooled by this new person. A wolf in sheeps clothing. You quit on your marriage and in turn your family. Pathetic. I'd offer suggestions for new activities. Nope! It was too "this" or too "that". It wasn't that you didn't want to try it out...you just didn't want to reengage in our relationship. Sabateur. And I'm the one that's not fun? MC? Oh you refused to go after the 3rd session when the counselor suggested that you need to look at your role in this. Take some of the blame? Can't do that can we! Naive. Your blame shifting to me has finally worked in my favor! Since it was all my fault you divorced me! Now I'm free from it.

Small problem for you though...who are you going to blame everything on now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Bmark, good to see you write that here. Tell her off!!!

Don't send it.

You're angry (and rightfully so). 

Your letter is chocked full of anger and blame (I understand).

It will not receive your desired response. Don't send it.

180, NC, move forward. Think of all the hot chicks you're going to be with when this is done. The karma bus is gonna get your STBXW. Living well is the best revenge.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

helolover said:


> Bmark, good to see you write that here. Tell her off!!!
> 
> Don't send it.
> 
> ...


Nah, was never going to send it to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Nah, was never going to send it to her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She likely has PTSD


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Been about a week since my last post. I've been doing great. Turning into a gym rat and can see a noticeable difference in my arms, shoulders, chest. Need more work on my core though. Basically bought a new wardrobe. I've been getting out of the house and socializing much more. My financial situation has improved greatly (funny this started to turn around after wife left...hmmm). Confidence is high right now. I feel like I'm walking taller now. Chest out and head held high. 

Conversely, my stbxw has looked like she's aged 5 years in the past few months. I can definitely see the stress in her face and eyes. But whatever that's her problem. 

We don't talk, text, visit,...nothing. We've NC'd each other. With our situation the way it is I can see now that it's a good thing. The only bad thing that I see about this is that I don't see us co-parenting at all...now or much in the future. Literally, the only communication about anything at all is regarding the dropoff of kids on Saturday via text (mid week is done via daycare). And that communication is shorter than an average Tweet.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Been about a week since my last post. I've been doing great. Turning into a gym rat and can see a noticeable difference in my arms, shoulders, chest. Need more work on my core though. Basically bought a new wardrobe. I've been getting out of the house and socializing much more. My financial situation has improved greatly (funny this started to turn around after wife left...hmmm). Confidence is high right now. I feel like I'm walking taller now. Chest out and head held high.
> 
> Conversely, my stbxw has looked like she's aged 5 years in the past few months. I can definitely see the stress in her face and eyes. But whatever that's her problem.
> 
> We don't talk, text, visit,...nothing. We've NC'd each other. With our situation the way it is I can see now that it's a good thing. The only bad thing that I see about this is that I don't see us co-parenting at all...now or much in the future. Literally, the only communication about anything at all is regarding the dropoff of kids on Saturday via text (mid week is done via daycare). And that communication is shorter than an average Tweet.


Full speed ahead.

Stay the course.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Full speed ahead.
> 
> Stay the course.


I'm staying the course...but right now missing the companionship. I've realized these feelings come on in waves so I'm just riding it out until it subsides.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

My mind has been consumed with my marital woes for too long now. Almost two years of limbo or separation. It stings less now but how do I stop thinking about it? 

All in all I have many things to be grateful for:

- my health (best shape of my life)
- roof over head and financially stable
- two beautiful healthy kids and their unconditional love
- great support group...6 siblings who are there for me anytime, much extended family, and of course TAM.
- still young (33) 

And much more but the things listed above should be enough for me to be content and to let it go; to relieve the stress of constantly thinking about my sitch. Yet I can't do it...it's always there hanging around in my head. I keep myself busy at the gym and movies but it's still there. If anyone has any advice on how to eliminate the thoughts I'd take it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> My mind has been consumed with my marital woes for too long now. Almost two years of limbo or separation. It stings less now but how do I stop thinking about it?
> 
> All in all I have many things to be grateful for:
> 
> ...


Claim your happiness.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Claim your happiness.


bmark,

I realize the above isn't as helpful as I'd intended.

Thundarr put it best in a post I've just read:

*I was forcing myself to go through daily motions like work, play with kids, eat, sleep. But internally I was bogged down with worry, stress, anxiety, fear, and embarrassment. It really is a terrible time for people.

The night before I was trying to get my hands around why I had no control of things. How would I get over her infidelity. Why was I not coming up with ways to fix it. Also what was I actually trying to save.


I awoke and the weight was gone. It seemed clear that "having no control" was the answer. I did indeed have control of me. Just not her. It seemed clear that I was trying to hold onto an idea rather than the person who'd done these things. What seemed scary the night before now felt exciting and like a challenge. That feeling of excitement, peace, and hope felt so good I thought I'm just not going back to that other place ever. I was then really pissed at myself for accepting some of the crap (does that take away from peace? probably).*


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> bmark,
> 
> I realize the above isn't as helpful as I'd intended.
> 
> ...


What a great post. I can relate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> What a great post. I can relate.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


me too.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Conrad said:


> bmark,
> 
> I realize the above isn't as helpful as I'd intended.
> 
> ...


Thanks Conrad for posting that here. It is helpful. I'll work on coming to the realization it's out of my hands and hopefully it does for me what it did for Thundarr.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Reminding myself what I do have control over and what I don't has helped. While I still think about the situation it's not as stressful now. 

Not sure why she has so much anger towards me when I see her to switch kids. She wanted this divorce...she's getting what she wanted. BUT out of my control.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

bmark33 said:


> Reminding myself what I do have control over and what I don't has helped. While I still think about the situation it's not as stressful now.
> 
> Not sure why she has so much anger towards me when I see her to switch kids. She wanted this divorce...she's getting what she wanted. BUT out of my control.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She has to hate you in order to justify in her mind her POS behavior.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

I've realized today that even if she wanted R I would say no. I don't know this person anymore. It's brought about a finality for me that I didn't have before. And while this is great for my personal progress it also comes with a certain amount of disappointment and failure. She's done, I'm done, we're done, our family's done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFPhoenix (Dec 24, 2013)

BM,

I know it's a bitter sweet feeling. I came to that realization a few weeks ago. It was after hearing that song Let Her Go. Yes, you know you love her when you let her go but you know you love yourself when you know you will never take her back.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> I've realized today that even if she wanted R I would say no. I don't know this person anymore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You just didn't see her completely before.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Should I be paying anything to stbxw before a court order requires? She wants half of health coverage for kids. I do pay half of daycare directly to daycare.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

bmark33 said:


> Should I be paying anything to stbxw before a court order requires? She wants half of health coverage for kids. I do pay half of daycare directly to daycare.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No. Like daycare, pay the provider directly.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Wondering if that's possible since it comes directly out of her paycheck...?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Convict (Feb 16, 2014)

Bmark. I read this thread from beginning to end. Sorry u had to go thru all that, but am glad to see u moving forward.

From what I read, this is all almost an exact recreation of the situation I am going thru and am still in.

This woman clearly does not deserve u. She just ain't worth it. She as a wife has to be discarded. If ur Achilles heel is ur kids, I can totally understand and relate to that. But she as ur wife is no longer worthy of ur love or ur loyalty.

Invest everything in ur kids. They should be ur priority (invest in the new u of course as well). She should just be the mother of ur kids. Nothing more, nothing less. Forget everything else about who she was to u.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Convict said:


> Bmark. I read this thread from beginning to end. Sorry u had to go thru all that, but am glad to see u moving forward.
> 
> From what I read, this is all almost an exact recreation of the situation I am going thru and am still in.
> 
> ...


Thanks Convict. I'm doing much better now. I'm 99% sure I'm out of tears for her/us. 

My next challenge is to figure out how to effectively coparent. I'd rather not discuss anything with her at all. To be honest Id rather not coparent at all. Just easier not to discuss anything with her other than pickup/dropoff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Just amazed at where my relationship is with stbxw. Went to pick up kids the other day at her apartment and she got all pissy with me because I walked from the living room to the bathroom (where they were at brushing teeth). Apparently, I'm to stay in the living room. I'll just stay outside from now on at pickup/dropoffs.

This is where she preferred our relationship to be? This is what she meant by divorce will be better for the kids? To see us fight because I walked down the hallway? We fight more now than ever before and we don't even really see eachother. Don't think I'll ever understand how she chose to use her energy to deconstruct everything instead of building it up.

She missed out on our annual trip to Disneyland. First time she missed it since we've had the kids. We had a great time...hard not to. The new Cars ride is a blast.

Just feeling a bit down today but I'll be fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Just amazed at where my relationship is with stbxw. Went to pick up kids the other day at her apartment and she got all pissy with me because I walked from the living room to the bathroom (where they were at brushing teeth). Apparently, I'm to stay in the living room. I'll just stay outside from now on at pickup/dropoffs.
> 
> This is where she preferred our relationship to be? This is what she meant by divorce will be better for the kids? To see us fight because I walked down the hallway? We fight more now than ever before and we don't even really see eachother. Don't think I'll ever understand how she chose to use her energy to deconstruct everything instead of building it up.
> 
> ...


Good job.

Just tighten boundaries until it doesn't hurt.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Haven't posted in over a month. 

I just been living with this empty feeling in my gut but I'm getting used to it. Seeing families together makes me feel envious. 

I've been having bad dreams of all the pain over the years. The pain of the absence of her love during the marriage, pain and frustration of not being successful in repairing the marriage, pain and rejection how I'm just completely dead to her now, pain of how little she cared to try. It wakes me up in tears.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Good job.
> 
> Just tighten boundaries until it doesn't hurt.


Did you read this the first time?

It still applies.

Will you allow one fickle idiotic person's opinion to define you?


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Did you read this the first time?
> 
> It still applies.
> 
> Will you allow one fickle idiotic person's opinion to define you?


No I won't. And I don't. But how to stop the dreams?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> No I won't. And I don't. But how to stop the dreams?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They will pass.

How is IC going?


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Conrad said:


> They will pass.
> 
> How is IC going?


Unfortunately, was laid off recently so I can't afford it right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bmark33 said:


> Unfortunately, was laid off recently so I can't afford it right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Find a way to get back in there.

It will help you turn the corner.... as will a new job.

Men and employment are inextricably linked.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Three months past since last post. So pissed at myself for still investing so much of my mental energy to my dead marriage. Can't seem to get passed it.

She's treated her 15 year partner like a bad date. Simply no contact at all which with kids is tough..."does she know our daughter has early release today from school"? Having trouble with the rejection and low self esteem. She never cared to meet me halfway. She never cared to help me with our relationship. I asked her to dinner so we can open lines of communication for our kids sake...no reply. 

I go to the gym with my brother 3 times a week. Go out with the kids and do fun things. But I'm still stuck in this rut. I can't get over how easy this was for her. I felt of little value to her the last few years of our marriage and if I wasn't convinced of this before she's showed me this past year how I'm nothing to her. And of course I had her on a pedestal. She messed me up something good and I let her. 

Hoping more time will be better to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

Hey 33,

Sorry you are struggling.

You keep on working on yourself.

You still use a lot of "she" and "her" in your post. Maybe you can try to eliminate that perspective from your posts. I know it is in your head and you can fight to refocus on you.

Good luck friend, you are going to thrive, I can tell!

Stretch


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Stretch said:


> Hey 33,
> 
> Sorry you are struggling.
> 
> ...


Thanks Stretch. I've tried to be patient with myself but it's been a year since she left and now I'm just eager to get to the other side. Therehas been progress just not as much as I'd hope after a year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

Stbxw is on some single women empowerment binge...putting up quotes on Instagram to the like and how her happiness is of utmost importance (which of course is important) ... But at the same time our daughter is having issues to the point where she wants to put her in therapy. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. She's become such a naive fool. 

I'm so pissed I want to say no to all her suggestions regarding kids just to spite her. Trying to get a reign in on that but it's tough because I feel she's wronged me and the kids. She took so much away from us I want to make her life a living hell too. But I know it doesn't do any of us any good. 

So I'm back in IC. Only two sessions in but I can see this counselor is better than the last one...more costly too. Funny how that works. I can't really afford it but I can't really afford not to go if you know what I mean. Hopefully she can get me quickly through this anger stage I'm in right now. 

But until then stbxw is such a [email protected]%$#.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

bmark33 said:


> Stbxw is on some single women empowerment binge...putting up quotes on Instagram to the like and how her happiness is of utmost importance...at the same time our daughter is having issues to the point where she wants to put her in therapy. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. She's become such a naive fool.
> 
> I'm so pissed I want to say no to all her suggestions regarding kids just to spite her. Trying to get a reign in on that but it's tough because I feel she's wronged me and the kids. She took so much away from us I want to make her life a living hell too. But I know it doesn't do any of us any good.
> 
> ...


Save your $$$ and vent her for now.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

I've been seeing an IC and that certainly has helped. It's helped me see that while stbxw may have wanted our marriage to succeed her ingrained conflict avoidance made it impossible. Not necessarily her fault because she developed those skills out of necessity as a child. Working on being able to spot these red flags as I move forward in life. 

Which brings me to this girl that I've met. Beautiful. We have a great time together. Looking for red flags and I guess the only thing I don't like right now is that she wants to move at a different pace than I do. I have told her that I'm not looking for a serious relationship right now and that I want to take things slow. After she took some time to consider my position she wanted to keep seeing each other. I've been guilty of giving her mixed signals which isn't fair to her so I'll try to correct that. Having someone be so into me is such the polar opposite of how my wife treated me the last few years that it feels a bit odd.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

bmark33 said:


> Stbxw is on some single women empowerment binge...putting up quotes on Instagram to the like and how her happiness is of utmost importance (which of course is important) ... But at the same time our daughter is having issues to the point where she wants to put her in therapy. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. She's become such a naive fool.
> 
> I'm so pissed I want to say no to all her suggestions regarding kids just to spite her. Trying to get a reign in on that but it's tough because I feel she's wronged me and the kids. She took so much away from us I want to make her life a living hell too. But I know it doesn't do any of us any good.
> 
> ...


Mark, block her on IG. Its attention whoring behaviour. Don't give it the time of day.


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## bmark33 (Jun 20, 2013)

I actually did block her but some family members have relayed this info over.


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## angel kate (Sep 13, 2014)

Go dark, work on yourself, do the 180. If it is meant to be she will be back. If not you will be prepared to move on, which is what I am doing, saying no to R.


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