# Need advice...serial flirt or much more?



## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

*Hi*

Just introducing myself. 40 year old female with him for 20 years, 2 teenagers. Over a year ago i caught him with a second phone and he was flirting and getting sexy pics from other women. I immediately kicked him out. He (supposedly) smashed the phone and showed it to me, deleted facebook (was flirting and deleting stuff on there too) , made a job change to leave the environment and the girls he was sexting and began IC. Also put a tracking app on his phone at the advice of his counselor so i alwats can check where he is. After 8 months he seemed to be doing everything right so i allowed him another chance. This is not the first time he has engaged in this behavior but i have no proof of PA, just flirting. 

Anyway things have been going well i thought until i realized this is actually a false reconciliation. Although things seemed ok i started to get a gut feeling that something was up. He assured me nothing was going on. Reminded me he got rid of the second phone, did counseling, deleted fb etc. But i didnt trust it. He was defensive and no longer showing remorse just impatience for me to get over this already. I found proof on his ipad that he still had the phone last September. A girl texted him on his real number and he replied “don't text me on here my wife checks this” and gave her his second phone number! So i confronted him and he lied again. He said “sorry, i still had the second phone when you took me back, didnt really smash it, but after working with the therapist all year i finally was able to understand why i need this other attention and work through it then get rid of the phone”. He said he didnt tell me because things were going well and he didnt want to rock the boat. I judt knew he was lying.

So I went digging and discovered he still has the second phone and is still texting other women. NOW! He lied to my face multiple times about it. I cant find the phone or see what's on it (keeps it at work im guessing) but i texted the number from an app pretending to be some random girl and he answered and gave details that allowed me to know 100% it is him. Nothing sexual yet. 

Anyway im keeping this info to myself for now so i dont do the whole blow up and then kick it under the carpet thing. What is my next step? How can someone be so sneaky that they do everything that looks right but still be keeping this second phone and lying? THE WHOLE TIME! He treats me well, our relationship seemed solid, seemed remorseful at first not now; and everything is good EXCEPT it seems its all an act! I always know where he is (well i know where his real phone is but he could be elsewhere with the other phone im suspecting ). Is he a serial cheater, narcissist or something? Am i that oblivious? I feel crazy. He has lied, gaslighted me, trickle truthed etc. I love him but obviously have ZERO trust in him and ZERO respect for him. I think i have to leave him for good but its hard because my life seemed so good. All lies though...


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*Re: Hi*

Welcome to TAM.

Sadly, you've caught this guy up to no good *numerous* times over the years. 

A year ago when you caught him, he put on this big dog and pony show of cancelling accounts, supposedly smashing his 2nd phone, changing his job, putting GPS apps on his phone, and mostly just lying through his teeth over and over and over until you actually believed him. And because you didn't want to leave him, you once again took a huge bite of the **** sandwich he's been serving you for years. I get the impression you've dealt with suspicious behavior from over the years but it's only been in the last year or so you've had actual hard evidence to back it up. Trust me when I tell you, those other times in the past, the odds are 99.999999% that you were right in your suspicions, you just lacked the smoking gun evidence is all.

And now you're right back to square one - you've caught him yet *again* and you're getting the same bull**** you got last time - that he's a good guy, he's never gotten physical with anyone, you're imagining most of it, his therapist said it's because he needs attention (you're PAYING for some hack to tell you that? I could have told you that for free), and he's telling you all the other lies he always tells you to get out of the doghouse.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Sadly, you're attached to a lying serial cheater who will *always cheat on you*. And serial cheaters have no clue what remorse is; the big crocodile tears they cry are simply part of the dog and pony show they put on for you each time they're caught. If he were REALLY remorseful, he _wouldn't _be a serial cheater, so that answers the question about remorse.



> What is my next step?


Well, you have a choice. You can continue dining on the never-ending **** sandwich this cheater is constantly serving up to you, and you can continue self-deluding, thinking this lying serial cheater is worth investing *one* more second of your time. Or, if you're wise, you'll call your lawyer today and start the process of ridding yourself of this toxic waste from your life once and for all.

I'd personally choose the latter.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

So so sorry for you. Your WH is definitely a serial cheater and could even be a narcissist cause he doesn't empathise with the pain he has caused you. 
You should act normal but start making a plan to get rid of him and exit from the relationship.
Do not put him on notice, start building up your finances (I hope you are married, you did not say). Are you working? Go and see a lawyer to see what your options are. I would also VAR his car to catch him in the act of talking to these women.
How old are your kids? Confide in close family or friends as to what he is doing. See a therapist for yourself so that you will be strong enough to walk away. This man will never change and you will live a life which is not real. You need to escape from him.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

What are you asking? 
He’s a lying, cheating, manipulative ******* but you know all this and you’re still there. 
He lied to the counselor and you know this as well and you’re still there. 
He’s “flirting” with other women and you know this but you’re still there. 
He has another phone and you know this and so on and so on. 
You have never actually done anything about his cheating and he figures you never will. 
And so far he’s right. 
Why are you still with him?


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

I have done something... I legally divorced him the first time this happened and we were apart for several years. Found our way back to each other. Thought we were happy for a long time until the incidents a year ago and I promptly threw him out again. Took him back 8 months later because he did “all the right things”. I don’t know what I’m asking...I guess I just need the blunt truth like you guys gave me. I don’t understand how or why a person can on the surface do everything that was asked but still be lying the whole time. Character disorder I guess. He maintains it was only ever flirting because he needs a lot of attention and that he didn’t cross any physical lines. But the lying itself is a dealbreaker I think.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It's not just the lying. It's the cheating, too.

Some people are masters at both and have their SOs completely fooled.

You've been given the gift of sight. I would act on that. Stop trying to talk yourself out of the truth of his behavior. What you know is just the tip of the iceberg. He's only flirting? Sure, and I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Kick him out and start detaching. Look up the 180 and implement the steps. Once you detach, your own love goggles will disappear and you will see the truth of him.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Just remember that it's much easier to focus his bizarre behavior than to focus on your own.

To bottom line it, it doesn't really matter why he does what he does. You're not gonna get satisfying answers to that. 

As Andy alluded, it'll be much more productive for you to take the time to figure out why you keep interacting with him.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

This.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

The guy is 40 and this started a year ago. You mentioned you divorced him, and we're apart for years? Was that a typo and it was months and not years?

If this started a bit before but before he turned 40, then this man is going through a midlife crisis. My X was a loving, loyal spouse until he turned around 38 and started feeling old and depressed. To feel better and younger, he started fantasizing about other women and at 40 he had a full blown affair with a 27 year old prostitute. He had no idea she was a prostitute, but the truth later came out. He has never been the same since then. He lies and is a horrible partner to any woman he has a relationship with. Serial cheater indeed.

Forget about how wonderful your WS was. That person is completely gone and has been replaced with this selfish, lieing, deceitful human being you don't want to be around. Get away and stay away from him for your own sanity and peace!

It has been 15 years since my X displayed those awful crisis traits and he is still deep in the muck. He is one of those that got stuck. Yours is probably the same. Let him go and don't look back! He will not get better, but he certainly will get worse.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

I'm sorry you're in this mess again. 

Every spouse deserves to feel 100% safe from infidelity (including safe from risky and/or flirty behavior). He has failed you and continues to fail you.

Among other things, the personality characteristics that enable him to behave inappropriately are: selfish, entitled, deceitful, and lacking in empathy for you.

Whatever he learned from the divorce and/or IC he's still letting the above characteristics control his decision making.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

*Re: Hi*

Now you know all the stuff you tried didn't really work. He just got more careful because he wants his fun on the side but he doesn't want a divorce. You can't control his actions so that leaves you with the option of either staying and putting up with whatever he does or moving on and creating a new life without him because he obviously doesn't plan on changing. Which is it going to be?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

*Re: Hi*

You love who you thought he was but the truth is that the lying and sneaking around is who he really is. Ask yourself if you really want to spend the rest of your life living with someone who can't be trusted. I lived that life for decades and it isn't fun.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It's not flirting. It's cheating. And it's who he is. You either accept this is your life with him or you move on and finally get him out of your life forever. It's all up to you because he's not changing.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

*Re: Hi*

Life is good, but you know it's all lies. You don't know specifics, but you do know he has lied about many things, has lied many times, and you know that he is still doing all those same things. You know he cannot be trusted. You know he cannot be respected.

I'm not sure what more you need to know. What you do know already is more than enough to divorce him. 

When a person shows you how they are, believe him. Stop hoping for specific evidence when all the evidence you have shows your husband's true self. And shows he is never going to stop being his true self to suddenly turn into the man you wish he was. He treats you well to keep the wool over your eyes and in a state of confusion. Your relationship seems good to keep the wool over your eyes and in a state of confusion. That man of yours is diabolical, and you live the disgrace. How much more of this could you possibly want? It's time to see your reality for what it is, as opposed to what you wish it to be.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Some believe that anything less than PIV is not cheating. Apparently he's one who believes that -- or at least that's the story he's selling you. You've taken him back twice now and he's still doing the same thing? What does that tell you?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Why does he keep coming back to you? Because he wants the stability of being with you and also to keep his fun on the side. One woman will never be enough for him because he feels entitled to whatever he wants. That's typical for serial cheaters. They don't want to change and very rarely do. 

He'll continue to keep trying to convince you that he only wants you because that's worked well in the past. You're part of what he wants but not all of it. That's what you need to remember.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

Bibi1031 said:


> The guy is 40 and this started a year ago. You mentioned you divorced him, and we're apart for years? Was that a typo and it was months and not years?
> 
> If this started a bit before but before he turned 40, then this man is going through a midlife crisis. My X was a loving, loyal spouse until he turned around 38 and started feeling old and depressed. To feel better and younger, he started fantasizing about other women and at 40 he had a full blown affair with a 27 year old prostitute. He had no idea she was a prostitute, but the truth later came out. He has never been the same since then. He lies and is a horrible partner to any woman he has a relationship with. Serial cheater indeed.
> 
> ...


I’m 40, he’s actually 50. I divorced him about 9 years ago and we were apart for 2 years. Then we got back together and Everything was good (I thought) until a year and a half ago when I kicked him out for 8 months. So basically I guess this has been probably going on since he was 40ish.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

Thank you all. This is what I needed to see to be able to stay strong. I will refer to this every time I want to believe him. My mind wants to make it go away so I don’t have to go through the upheaval again...it hurts so bad.... how can someone do this to another person??? Especially the “love of their life” and mother of his children...
I know you’re all probably right and he’s actually a serial cheater who will never change and just wants to eat cake. Probably has gone physical too. Next step STD testing for me... 😔


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

He's a cake eater and a serial cheat. He's just taken it underground more he'll get possibly better at this because of the way he is.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

*Re: Hi*



Reeney said:


> What is my next step?


Time to lawyer-up. Sorry, but I don't see this as salvageable.



Reeney said:


> How can someone be so sneaky that they do everything that looks right but still be keeping this second phone and lying?


I'd attribute part of it to simply being able to get away with it. Sure, you kicked him out. But when he put on the dog-and-pony show for you, you eventually let him back in. He also has no character and his moral compass is broken. There ARE crappy people in this world. It seems you married one.



Reeney said:


> He treats me well, our relationship seemed solid, seemed remorseful at first not now; and everything is good EXCEPT it seems its all an act!


Of course it's an act, and his motivation for treating you well is to keep you around. He's playing "nice" so he can continue being a cake eater. Like I said, I'd kick him to the curb.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

He’s irredeemable. You must leave. Do your daughters now what a lying scumbag he is?


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

Son and daughter. They knew about the time over a year ago (overheard a lot plus I didn’t lie when my son directly asked me) but nothing about this time (well I guess last time never ended...did it 🤦*♀) Im not sure what is age appropriate to share plus I haven’t even confronted him yet. I’m biding my time this time so I can get all my ducks in a row before the showdown. I’m guessing I’ll just tell them that lying and secret phones have continued and that marriage can not survive with trust and respect. It’s heartbreaking for them and of course for me. What a chump I am...


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

This is real life to you, but a game to him. His ego feed is more important than anything else. I understand your ties to the man you thought you married and I'm sorry he moved on to his fantasy single life.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

*Re: Hi*

Thanks everyone. (Sorry for the duplicate post I put pretty much the same thing in the CWI forum because I coukdbt figure out how to post at first.)
It’s a hard truth to swallow but I know you have all been there done that and recognize what I was too blind to clearly see. I feel SO STUPID. How could I be so blind for TWENTY YEARS?? I’m done being the chump now though. Time to reclaim myself. I wonder if I’ll ever trust anyone ever again? I’d say it’s doubtful. But that’s the least of my problems...


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

*Re: Hi*



She'sStillGotIt said:


> Welcome to TAM.
> 
> Sadly, you've caught this guy up to no good *numerous* times over the years.
> 
> ...


And what a dog and pony show it was... he’s such a sick person!! Like you said “toxic waste”...so accurate. Thank you for your honesty. I need that to 
stay strong.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Hi*

@Reeney

You had 3 threads with basically the same original post. 2 of them had a fair amount of replies. So I merged all 3 of the threads. You will get much better input with one thread.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

*Re: Hi*

Omg sorry! And thank you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Hi*

@Reeney

Do you feel that you have enough info know that he is still cheating? Or do you think that you need more evidence?


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

*Re: Hi*



EleGirl said:


> @Reeney
> 
> Do you feel that you have enough info know that he is still cheating? Or do you think that you need more evidence?


Knowing he has the second phone and has lied this whole time is enough for me. I’m sure even if I discover more there will still always be more that I’ll never know... It’s just hard to wrap my head around (and I want to stay in the dark so I don’t have to face my new broken life) but yes it’s enough. Proof of a PA would be great since some people I know don’t think anything else is cheating but I doubt I’ll get the proof... he’s too sneaky. So this will be enough, I’m going to throw him out for good.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

I’m going to keep reading posts for info on how to handle the confrontation because I don’t want to screw it up or end up believing his new lies.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Reeney said:


> I’m going to keep reading posts for info on how to handle the confrontation because I don’t want to screw it up or end up believing his new lies.


It's not clear from your posts if you two are married now, or just living together. Could you clarify?

One thing you need to keep in the forefront in your mind when you confront him is that he, like most cheaters, will not admit to what he has actually been doing. When I confronted my husband about his infidelity, he lied and lied and lied. He only admitted to things I was able to find. It got to the point that I stopped telling him most of what I found so that I could fact check what he told me against the facts that I found. (I had a LOT of info.) When it became very clear that he would never tell me anything that I had not already found out on my own, I gave him a choice: 1) tell me the truth; answer my questions truthfully or, 2) I will just assume that my imagination is what you did, and I can assure you that what I imagen is probably far worse than the truth. He chose #2. 

If you are currently married to him, it might be best to wait until you see an attorney, get your ducks in a row, and have divorce papers to give him.

So when you confront him, don't expect the truth from him. Know that you already know enough of the truth to end this relationship. Don't let him wiggle his way out, lie, or gilt trip you. Don't even let the discussion get to the point that he can argue his innocence, or that it's really not as bad as you think it is.

Keep it short and to the point. If you are afraid that the confrontation will get out of hand, write it down as a letter and give it to him. Keep I not more than 2-3 paragraphs. Keep it non-emotional. If you have divorce papers, put the letter on top of the papers and hand them to him. He'll get the point.


Dear ……..

I cannot continue in this marriage because of your lying, hiding things, and cheating with women. I have decided that this marriage cannot continue and that I must seek a divorce. This is something I have been struggling with for since I discovered that you have never actually stopped your contact with other women. I have reached the limits of my pain threshold and just cannot go on any longer. I am asking you to move out.​
Going forward, you should interact with him per the 180. The idea of the 180 is to protect yourself emotionally while you heal. 

Here is a link to the 180: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/affairrecoveryforum/the-180-t10616.html


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Reeney said:


> Proof of a PA would be great since some people I know don’t think anything else is cheating but I doubt I’ll get the proof... he’s too sneaky.


I would hope that people would understand if you explain about the bogus phone, pretending to participate in counseling, and he had a secret second phone the whole time. And you texted as a female and he responded. Whether he cheated again is beside the point. Who wants to be in a relationship with someone like that? He’s a pathological liar.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

*Re: Hi*



Reeney said:


> A girl texted him on his real number and he replied “don't text me on here my wife checks this” and gave her his second phone number! So i confronted him and he lied again. He said “sorry, i still had the second phone when you took me back, didnt really smash it, but after working with the therapist all year i finally was able to understand why i need this other attention and work through it then get rid of the phone”. He said he didnt tell me because things were going well and he didnt want to rock the boat. I judt knew he was lying.
> 
> So I went digging and discovered he still has the second phone and is still texting other women. NOW! He lied to my face multiple times about it. I cant find the phone or see what's on it (keeps it at work im guessing) but i texted the number from an app pretending to be some random girl and he answered and gave details that allowed me to know 100% it is him. Nothing sexual yet.
> 
> Anyway im keeping this info to myself for now so i dont do the whole blow up and then kick it under the carpet thing. What is my next step? How can someone be so sneaky that they do everything that looks right but still be keeping this second phone and lying? THE WHOLE TIME! He treats me well, our relationship seemed solid, seemed remorseful at first not now; and everything is good EXCEPT it seems its all an act! I always know where he is (well i know where his real phone is but he could be elsewhere with the other phone im suspecting ). Is he a serial cheater, narcissist or something? Am i that oblivious? I feel crazy. He has lied, gaslighted me, trickle truthed etc. I love him but obviously have ZERO trust in him and ZERO respect for him. I think i have to leave him for good but its hard because my life seemed so good. All lies though...



Just a plain liar. Even if he had good intentions at first (which I doubt) he couldn't get the buzz from normal life. A didn't have guts to do the right thing about it.

Not often I say this - dump his arse and get whatever you can.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> So when you confront him, don't expect the truth from him.



THIS ^^^

He might want to "explain" (justify) or "be sorry" (try to convince you not to change his set up) or even blame you (shift blame).

Don't go there.

You might want a reason, or some type of closure, hoping to salvage some sign of respect from him.

Don't go there.

He is a confirmed and committed liar. His words are just a ploy to help him slide through life without having to deal with the mess he makes. Chalk this one up to experience and forget the bad moments.

Don't bother listening to anything he has to say, any reasons, any pleas, any compromises.
Someone who is out and out lying like that to you repeatedly is not going to ever be a helpful force in your life. Get free now and don't waste any more resources than you have to to get clear (and get what you're entitled to).

Get clear, and don't look back.

As I said before, not often do I say the "dump his arse, and take him for what you can". But this is one of those cases.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Be prepared for him to say everything he can think of to stay in your life (and to continue saying it for days, weeks, months, years because he wants to continue to be in your life). 

You have a history of giving in to him so you will have to be very, very strong to finally end this and never again take him back.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

EleGirl said:


> It's not clear from your posts if you two are married now, or just living together. Could you clarify?
> 
> One thing you need to keep in the forefront in your mind when you confront him is that he, like most cheaters, will not admit to what he has actually been doing. When I confronted my husband about his infidelity, he lied and lied and lied. He only admitted to things I was able to find. It got to the point that I stopped telling him most of what I found so that I could fact check what he told me against the facts that I found. (I had a LOT of info.) When it became very clear that he would never tell me anything that I had not already found out on my own, I gave him a choice: 1) tell me the truth; answer my questions truthfully or, 2) I will just assume that my imagination is what you did, and I can assure you that what I imagen is probably far worse than the truth. He chose #2.
> 
> ...


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

spotthedeaddog said:


> THIS ^^^
> 
> He might want to "explain" (justify) or "be sorry" (try to convince you not to change his set up) or even blame you (shift blame).
> 
> ...


Exactly. You’re so right. Thank you.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

Openminded said:


> Be prepared for him to say everything he can think of to stay in your life (and to continue saying it for days, weeks, months, years because he wants to continue to be in your life).
> 
> You have a history of giving in to him so you will have to be very, very strong to finally end this and never again take him back.


I know. I’ve been a giant sucker/chump etc. It’s going to be very hard but I think posting on here and reading all of the cut to the chase responses is going to help me. Plus my family and all my friends strongly dislike him now and are hoping and praying I do this for good this time.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Reeney said:


> No longer married (I divorced him years ago but we got back together and wear rings and basically present ourselves as married still) I own the house (bought it after divorce in my name only thank goodness) but we have various other cars things etc to untangle.


How many years have you held yourselves as a married couple without the legalities? It depends on the laws of your state, but you might have a common law marriage. This is where you need a competent attorney to get involved. In several states, case law recognizes common law marriage, while other states recognize it via statutory law. 

No need to untangle squat. AGAIN, PLEASE GET A COMPETENT FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY - like yesterday. You own the home. However, you cannot just kick him out. I assume he considers it his domicile as well and gets his mail there. You'd have to give him a 30-day notice to vacate, just as you would a tenant.

Sending letters/texts is something I personally consider right out of high school. Sure, the other party is forced to "hear" you by reading it, but so what? You get stuff off your chest without having an immediate response, but what difference does it make how this serial cheat/liar responds? You know he'll just turn it around on you and lie some more or make it your problem.

Just find out what you need to do legally to extricate yourself from this jerk. I'm sorry to sound harsh, but I just cannot fathom why you wouldn't just see an attorney and scrape this crap off the bottom of your shoe.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

Prodigal said:


> How many years have you held yourselves as a married couple without the legalities? It depends on the laws of your state, but you might have a common law marriage. This is where you need a competent attorney to get involved. In several states, case law recognizes common law marriage, while other states recognize it via statutory law.
> 
> No need to untangle squat. AGAIN, PLEASE GET A COMPETENT FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY - like yesterday. You own the home. However, you cannot just kick him out. I assume he considers it his domicile as well and gets his mail there. You'd have to give him a 30-day notice to vacate, just as you would a tenant.
> 
> ...


I wasn’t thinking about it that way...didn’t think I needed a lawyer but you’re right. It’s been about 10 years I guess that we aren’t legally married. So I will have to give him time to get out so I can do the 180 while he’s still there. He owns other property himself so I just figured he would go there but who knows. He can easily manipulate me as I’ve shown over and over so I was hoping to avoid that. 

I liked the letter idea because I’m terrified he’s just going to talk his game and I’ll want to believe and blah blah blah I’ll be posting here in another few years.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Reeney said:


> He can easily manipulate me as I’ve shown over and over so I was hoping to avoid that.
> 
> I liked the letter idea because I’m terrified he’s just going to talk his game and I’ll want to believe and blah blah blah I’ll be posting here in another few years.


*DON'T DISCUSS THIS WITH HIM. DON'T WRITE HIM A LETTER.*

*PLEASE see an attorney FIRST.* You are weak and he can manipulate you. You are doing nothing more than shooting yourself in the foot if you convey what you're thinking about before you see an attorney!


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

Prodigal said:


> *DON'T DISCUSS THIS WITH HIM. DON'T WRITE HIM A LETTER.*
> 
> *PLEASE see an attorney FIRST.* You are weak and he can manipulate you. You are doing nothing more than shooting yourself in the foot if you convey what you're thinking about before you see an attorney!


Ok that is what I will do prior to any confrontation thanks!


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Reeney said:


> Knowing he has the second phone and has lied this whole time is enough for me. I’m sure even if I discover more there will still always be more that I’ll never know... It’s just hard to wrap my head around (and I want to stay in the dark so I don’t have to face my new broken life) but yes it’s enough. Proof of a PA would be great since some people I know don’t think anything else is cheating but I doubt I’ll get the proof... he’s too sneaky. So this will be enough, I’m going to throw him out for good.


You don't need to dig one more second. Honestly, it's not rocket science, Reeney. Just because you haven't found solid proof of physical affairs *doesn't mean it's not happening.* It just means he's *sneaky* enough to keep it hidden well. Men don't go to the lengths he's gone to and don't continually take the kinds of risks he keeps taking *JUST* so they can have a 'text buddy' to flirt with or to get themselves a date with a woman to go to the burger shack and share a milkshake and play the jukebox. 

He takes these risks for a *payoff* - and that payoff is sex.

While it's said there are no absolutes in life (other than death and taxes), the one thing you CAN be certain of is that there's always, ALWAYS more to the story when it comes to serial cheaters. And make no mistake - he's a serial cheater. He's got fishing lines out all over the place, hoping to reel in live ones. Don't be surprised if a year or two (or even 10 or 20 years) from now someone tells you something out of the blue that he did while you were married to him that you knew nothing about at the time. That's always fun. Serial cheaters are the gift that just keeps giving, even many years later. Ask me how I know.

You said the magic word - "chump." There's a website JUST for chumps who were also fooled for long periods of time by their lying cheaters and finally saw the light. Go to ChumpLady.com and spend a few hours reading there. Their motto is, _"Leave a cheater, gain a life." _She's also got a sub-reddit (r/ChumpLadyNation - you have to request membership) where members can post because the forum is no longer active on her regular ChumpLady website.

Lastly, that's EXCELLENT advice for you to seek legal counsel *before* you say a word to this lying snake. So many people don't make intelligent choices for themselves because they didn't take the time to learn what their actual rights are or what they're entitled to, based on their particular situation and the laws of their state. So they made bad choices based on their assumptions or worse - based on the bull**** their cheater _claimed_ would happen if they split up.

Don't be that uneducated person making bad choices. Go to your lawyer and find out exactly where you stand before you talk to him. Knowledge is POWER.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You don't need to dig one more second. Honestly, it's not rocket science, Reeney. Just because you haven't found solid proof of physical affairs *doesn't mean it's not happening.* It just means he's *sneaky* enough to keep it hidden well. Men don't go to the lengths he's gone to and don't continually take the kinds of risks he keeps taking *JUST* so they can have a 'text buddy' to flirt with or to get themselves a date with a woman to go to the burger shack and share a milkshake and play the jukebox.
> 
> He takes these risks for a *payoff* - and that payoff is sex.
> 
> ...


I know. It’s so depressing though. And yes I’ve found that website. That along with all of your advice on here is the only thing keeping me strong.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Reeney said:


> I’m 40, he’s actually 50. I divorced him about 9 years ago and we were apart for 2 years. Then we got back together and Everything was good (I thought) until a year and a half ago when I kicked him out for 8 months. So basically I guess this has been probably going on since he was 40ish.


You are still young enough to meet someone else and have a really good life with them. Someone who loves and respects you. YOu should get lots of IC to see why you allow this man to keep coming into your life and treating you like s***. He may be a narcissist.
Get rid of him once and for all. Move on. He wants you because you are his security blanket, he is no spring chicken and wants a soft place to land. Let him go free and have all the fun he so seems to desire. Don't allow him to have his cake and eat it. He will not change.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Just tape the trash can lid shut this time.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Normally I'm all for giving a person another chance but... ugh, this one is tough. Whether he has gone to a PA yet, or even an EA, he is obviously still keeping that door open for himself in case the opportunity arises.

One thought, it's possible he doesn't actually have a second physical phone. To me it seems possible that he might have a secondary phone line set up that is mostly digital. For example, he can use Google Voice, which creates a totally free phone number that you can use to make phone calls and send/receive text message from via an app on his phone. No pre-paid cards, no bills, no physical phone to hide. He can just turn off notifications so that the phone doesn't ring/vibrate when receiving a message. I'm guessing he never used the line to make many calls anyway, probably mostly just text messages.

Best of luck to you.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

cdbaker said:


> Normally I'm all for giving a person another chance but... ugh, this one is tough. Whether he has gone to a PA yet, or even an EA, he is obviously still keeping that door open for himself in case the opportunity arises.
> 
> One thought, it's possible he doesn't actually have a second physical phone. To me it seems possible that he might have a secondary phone line set up that is mostly digital. For example, he can use Google Voice, which creates a totally free phone number that you can use to make phone calls and send/receive text message from via an app on his phone. No pre-paid cards, no bills, no physical phone to hide. He can just turn off notifications so that the phone doesn't ring/vibrate when receiving a message. I'm guessing he never used the line to make many calls anyway, probably mostly just text messages.
> 
> Best of luck to you.


Well he might have that too for all I know...but I know he does have an actual second phone too. He confessed to buying it at Walmart so he had a place for the sexy pics girls were sending him. I’ll never know the truth about everything though so that’s why I decided to end it for good this time. Thank you for all the support!


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

Gabriel said:


> Just tape the trash can lid shut this time.


Well said. I need to print out these posts and keep them handy when I feel the urge to do something dumb. He’s such a manipulative jerk. Love bombing the heck out of me. I can’t go total NC cuz of the kids but I’m trying to limit it as much as possible.


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## 20yr (Apr 19, 2019)

Reeney said:


> Well said. I need to print out these posts and keep them handy when I feel the urge to do something dumb. He’s such a manipulative jerk. Love bombing the heck out of me. I can’t go total NC cuz of the kids but I’m trying to limit it as much as possible.


Google the Grey Rock method. It good for situations where you cannot go NC. It is working well for me.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

*Re: Hi*



spotthedeaddog said:


> Just a plain liar. Even if he had good intentions at first (which I doubt) he couldn't get the buzz from normal life. A didn't have guts to do the right thing about it.
> 
> Not often I say this - dump his arse and get whatever you can.


This is what I imagine, that is, that serial cheaters don't feel alive / can't get off unless it's clandestine activity.

Just like I believe that some men don't enjoy consensual sex for the same reason.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

Welp guys... you were all right. I found out a lot of things this week by sleuthing around. Not just sexting. Lots of sexual affairs including bringing a girl into our home and doing her in our own bed. He is a truly sick person. I’m guessing this probably went on the entire 20 years...🤮


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Ugh....

Can you detach emotionally now and get the ball rolling on getting rid of him?

I know it's hard. We twist ourselves into pretzels trying to justify staying when we fear an unknown future. Your future is much brighter without him, though, even if it is currently a question mark.

Best of luck. I'm sorry this has happened to you.


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## 20yr (Apr 19, 2019)

@Reeney - I am so sorry to hear that. Take your time to process what you have learned. Find a therapist, an attorney, and a trusted friend. Lean on us at TAM.

Hugs.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

And....please remember that you wouldn't accept any of this behavior from a friend. He is a liar and cheater. Try to focus on what you, an honest person, will accept in a spouse. Don't make any more excuses.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

alte Dame said:


> Ugh....
> 
> Can you detach emotionally now and get the ball rolling on getting rid of him?
> 
> ...


Thank you. Twisting into pretzels is an excellent analogy. That’s exactly how I feel. It baffles me that I must be so scared of the unknown that my mind IS STILL TRYING to justify everything so things can “go back to normal”. Which is stupid and will never happen. I need to get my head together and kick him out for good. And tape the trash can shut as was previously advised. Lol. 20 years up in smoke. Such a devastating feeling.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

"Tis devastating, but you were not living the 20 years you thought you were, nor was he. So sorry!


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I would be contacting an attorney and filing for divorce. How many times can you forgive his man? Is there any trust left?


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

I confronted him once I had the actual proof. It went better than expected. He didn’t even lie or deny anymore. Amazing. I felt validated that I finally have the truth (well some lol I’m sure I’ll never get all but knowing of the sex with other women was enough)- He cried, I cried and he packed his **** at my request and left. It’s my house, we are no longer legally married. We do have some vehicles and things to unravel but that will take some time. At least he’s gone now. And knows I’m not taking him back. I’m devastated but also feel unburdened. Thanks for all the support guys. Couldnt have stayed strong enough to not confront without getting the PA evidence without your help. That sealed the deal for me. Was still waffling before that.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Sorry about the situation but glad you are moving on. You'll find someone better.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

20yr said:


> @Reeney - I am so sorry to hear that. Take your time to process what you have learned. Find a therapist, an attorney, and a trusted friend. Lean on us at TAM.
> 
> Hugs.


QFT (quoted for truth)

I have practical advice for you. 

In the next few days, you are going to cry a river, so go tomorrow and buy some lotion tissues. If you use regular, non-lotion kleenex, you will rub your eyes and nose raw, and then you'll have salty tears in chapped eyes...OUCH! It's normal to cry, so just do yourself a small favor and get some lotion tissues. 

Next, get a couple cans of soup, because I guarantee you're going to go on the infideity diet...which means you're not hungry and if you did try to eat something, you can't choke it down past the lump in your throat. Soup is liquid, so it's a little easier to choke down, and it's relatively nutritious and comforting. So when you have to take care of kids or go to work or whatever you "have to" do...you can eat a cup of soup and at least get some nutrition, plus it feels warm on the tum.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You have been very strong!

Kudos to you for standing up for yourself. Your future will be much better than your past with him. I have no doubt.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Reeney said:


> I confronted him once I had the actual proof. It went better than expected. He didn’t even lie or deny anymore. Amazing. I felt validated that I finally have the truth (well some lol I’m sure I’ll never get all but knowing of the sex with other women was enough)- He cried, I cried and he packed his **** at my request and left. It’s my house, we are no longer legally married. We do have some vehicles and things to unravel but that will take some time. At least he’s gone now. And knows I’m not taking him back. I’m devastated but also feel unburdened. Thanks for all the support guys. Couldnt have stayed strong enough to not confront without getting the PA evidence without your help. That sealed the deal for me. Was still waffling before that.


You're not able to see it just yet, but one day you'll truly see that booting his ass out the door was the BEST loss of 180 pounds of completely worthless flesh you'll _*ever*_ lose.


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## 20yr (Apr 19, 2019)

Reeney said:


> I confronted him once I had the actual proof. It went better than expected. He didn’t even lie or deny anymore. Amazing. I felt validated that I finally have the truth (well some lol I’m sure I’ll never get all but knowing of the sex with other women was enough)- He cried, I cried and he packed his **** at my request and left. It’s my house, we are no longer legally married. We do have some vehicles and things to unravel but that will take some time. At least he’s gone now. And knows I’m not taking him back. I’m devastated but also feel unburdened. Thanks for all the support guys. Couldnt have stayed strong enough to not confront without getting the PA evidence without your help. That sealed the deal for me. Was still waffling before that.


You should probably still consult an atty. You said that you have 2 teens - are they still minors? You will need to work out a support agreement, agree on how to handle college education costs. Also, many states recognize common law marriage. If you live in such a state, legally separating must be more formal. I am sure you just want to start moving on but you need to be careful to protect your rights and your children's rights.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

20yr said:


> You should probably still consult an atty. You said that you have 2 teens - are they still minors? You will need to work out a support agreement, agree on how to handle college education costs. Also, many states recognize common law marriage. If you live in such a state, legally separating must be more formal. I am sure you just want to start moving on but you need to be careful to protect your rights and your children's rights.


I just typed out a whole long response and lost it. But anyway yes I did talk to a lawyer and my state does not recognize common-law. I make triple the money he does and I’m fully prepared to pay for everything. He is definitely not going to bother raising kids while he is out chasing girls and yearning for the single life. I know from the last separation that I had all the responsibility and he just did whatever he wanted and never even saw the kids for months. I am 100% fine with not pursuing any type of support. I would probably end up paying him anyway with the income difference LOL. Thank goodness that I spent the last few years obtaining my graduate degree and pursuing a lucrative career. While he was out messing around...sigh...


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

I really cannot say this enough. Anyone who is reading this post please please please listen to the fellow posters about the importance of staying quiet and collecting evidence. The things that I now know and have seen in black-and-white make me so physically ill that there is never a chance in 1 million years that I would take this man back. And I truly believe without that I would not have had the strength to end this for good. 

Besides having another woman in our bed and bragging about it and descriptively outlining exactly what they did and how he had to wash the comforter before I got home because it was so stained up...he also was using the ploy of “interviewing cleaning ladies” so the neighbors would not suspect why women were coming in my house. AND SO HE COULD GET PAST the tracker on his phone. It was advised by his therapist to build trust! Welp he found away around it. Just bring the hoes home. Unbelievable. 

And the day that I confronted him (RIGHT before I did) he actually said to me that he had a new cleaning person to interview this week. After I had just read those text messages. So I knew that he was setting up the next one right then. What a disgusting waste of a human. Next stop STD testing… Sadly….

This is a man who everyone loves and is so charismatic and friendly. Always acts like a gentleman opening doors and stuff like that. Stopping for stranded motorists. Rescuing abandoned kittens. &#55357;&#56900; Etc. Catered to me. Treated me well in most ways (except the jealousy which was obviously projection and the constant flirting of course). And yet he is a sick disgusting pervert. 50 year old man out banging skanky 20 year olds and graphically sexting anytime he’s not actually screwing one. Disgusting. &#55358;&#56622;

I BELIEVED him for years, still didn’t like the flirty stuff but he took it underground and boy I’m glad and sickened that I saw the whole truth of what he is. I could’ve wasted another 20 years believing his lies. I started out thinking he was just a serial flirter And have come to find out the extent of his sickness. Serial physical sexual cheating. &#55358;&#56622; 

The disrespect he has for me and our kids and home and well whole life is just astounding. Thank you all for this forum and your wise words and support. I’m devastated but so grateful that the wool was lifted from my eyes and I know the extent of his sex addiction, narcissism whatever the hell it is. And was able to save my remaining shred of dignity and toss the trash out where it belongs... ughhhh thanks for listening.


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## 20yr (Apr 19, 2019)

You sound very strong and it sounds like you are going to get through this.

But be warned, right now you are fueled by your righteous indignation - I was too when I first learned the truth about my STBXH (thanks to some tricks suggested here on TAM). There will be a point when you start to crumple a bit. It's ok - you will go through a rollercoaster of feelings as you let go of the person you thought he was. It is normal.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Forward focus! It must be so gratifying to know that you know. To not be in the dark. To not have to deal with gut feelings as he lies to your face. You know what he is now. Breathe a sigh of relief as you move forward.

I think you are a strong woman. Best of luck to you!


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Come back here when you are down. How disgusting to find this out about your charming louse and sexual pervert. It must have been full-time work to be so deceiving!


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

alte Dame said:


> Forward focus! It must be so gratifying to know that you know. To not be in the dark. To not have to deal with gut feelings as he lies to your face. You know what he is now. Breathe a sigh of relief as you move forward.
> 
> I think you are a strong woman. Best of luck to you!



Gratifying but also makes me soooo sick. I’m moving forward but get choked up and feel sucker punched throughout the days. I have been cleaning out my house...first step removing all traces of him. He texts me constantly begging for counseling and such but after seeing the things I have seen there is zero chance of that. Thank goodness any time I feel weak all I have to do is read his disgusting texts to other women and know for sure he is a twisted and very sick man and that I want NOTHING to do with him.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

sunsetmist said:


> Come back here when you are down. How disgusting to find this out about your charming louse and sexual pervert. It must have been full-time work to be so deceiving!


Yes he is so disgusting. Thank goodness I know the truth despite how hard it is to know.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

20yr said:


> You sound very strong and it sounds like you are going to get through this.
> 
> But be warned, right now you are fueled by your righteous indignation - I was too when I first learned the truth about my STBXH (thanks to some tricks suggested here on TAM). There will be a point when you start to crumple a bit. It's ok - you will go through a rollercoaster of feelings as you let go of the person you thought he was. It is normal.


Youre right about the stages. I’m in the angry I will hurt you and burn your new house down phase. Ugh.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Reeney said:


> Yes he is so disgusting. Thank goodness I know the truth despite how hard it is to know.


Never let that feeling leave you. There are so many who never get the truth and so they stay with their cheater (who for many reasons wants to stay with them). But you finally know and he won't be able to convince you otherwise. He will likely continue to try though because he wants back in your life. Be prepared for that.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

Openminded said:


> Never let that feeling leave you. There are so many who never get the truth and so they stay with their cheater (who for many reasons wants to stay with them). But you finally know and he won't be able to convince you otherwise. He will likely continue to try though because he wants back in your life. Be prepared for that.


YOURE so right. He’s crazy. First he has been texting me how sorry he is and will I go to counseling with him? Then when I declined he started telling me a sad sad story of sexual abuse he suffered as a preteen which he never mentioned in 20 years. It may be true but bringing it up now is just trying to manipulate me and prey on my empathetic nature. Then when I continued to pretty much ignore him he tried sexting me exactly like he did with his *****s! Said if I could talk dirty with him that would be all he needs to be fulfilled with only me! Then when I ignored that too he went back to lovey texts. Then angry ones that I’m probably ignoring him because I’m with another man already. Then are you ok? I’m so worried about you...
It’s been like a week! He’s nuts. I have PTSD from this. God how I wish I could go full no contract but with the kids I can’t. I’m now going to research the grey rock thing. God what a nightmare. I have had to keep coming back here to reread all the responses so I stay strong.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Absolutely *NOTHING* these slime bag cheaters do shocks me anymore.

 Nothing. 

I just hope you don't have to *pay* this deviant one shiny nickle for any type of 'common law' stuff due to the fact that he's a complete and utter loser and you out-earn him three times over because he'd rather chase tail than better himself by trying to advance at work or get a better education. God he's just so useless.

Next time, set your sights higher.

Much, *MUCH* higher. :grin2:


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Reeney said:


> YOURE so right. He’s crazy. First he has been texting me how sorry he is and will I go to counseling with him? Then when I declined he started telling me a sad sad story of sexual abuse he suffered as a preteen which he never mentioned in 20 years. It may be true but bringing it up now is just trying to manipulate me and prey on my empathetic nature. Then when I continued to pretty much ignore him he tried sexting me exactly like he did with his *****s! Said if I could talk dirty with him that would be all he needs to be fulfilled with only me! Then when I ignored that too he went back to lovey texts. Then angry ones that I’m probably ignoring him because I’m with another man already. Then are you ok? I’m so worried about you...
> It’s been like a week! He’s nuts. I have PTSD from this. God how I wish I could go full no contract but with the kids I can’t. I’m now going to research the grey rock thing. God what a nightmare. I have had to keep coming back here to reread all the responses so I stay strong.


I know all too well and I greatly sympathize. 

My ex-husband was a serial cheater who didn't want a divorce and promised the moon to get me to stay. I bought it the first time but not the second time. At that point I knew there was no way I would ever trust him again and I got out. 

I needed peace in my life and I finally got it. You will too.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Sometimes there are no comfortable options. In your case, you are taking the least painful path, which is to cut your losses now and do the work of moving on. There is no magic elixir. You will feel pain, but it will lessen with time until you are just fine, even happy, with your new life. If you were to cave to his *lies*, you would be consigning yourself to a lifetime of pain and disrespect. Life is too short for that and your life is too valuable.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

Openminded said:


> I know all too well and I greatly sympathize.
> 
> My ex-husband was a serial cheater who didn't want a divorce and promised the moon to get me to stay. I bought it the first time but not the second time. At that point I knew there was no way I would ever trust him again and I got out.
> 
> I needed peace in my life and I finally got it. You will too.



Yes, peace! I already feel it although I’m sad a lot, crying a lot etc. I no longer have to play detective, worry what or who he’s doing, listen to his constant negativity or be near his drama. I know this will take time but I’m hopeful.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

alte Dame said:


> Sometimes there are no comfortable options. In your case, you are taking the least painful path, which is to cut your losses now and do the work of moving on. There is no magic elixir. You will feel pain, but it will lessen with time until you are just fine, even happy, with your new life. If you were to cave to his *lies*, you would be consigning yourself to a lifetime of pain and disrespect. Life is too short for that and your life is too valuable.



Thank you for the reminder. I have my days when I feel weak but then I read this thread or chump lady or the disgusting texts I discovered or picture him with the 20 year old OW and welp that’s all it takes to remain on this path away from him.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It will help that you are not married. You will be able to detach more easily. Stick with us for when you want to talk. Chumplady is great for keeping the spine stiff. When you get wobbly, go back and read her.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Reeney said:


> Yes, peace! I already feel it although I’m sad a lot, crying a lot etc. I no longer have to play detective, worry what or who he’s doing, listen to his constant negativity or be near his drama. I know this will take time but I’m hopeful.


It's amazing the uplifting effect that letting go of all that can have. Yes, it's still a difficult process but it's such a positive to take charge of your life.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

Openminded said:


> It's amazing the uplifting effect that letting go of all that can have. Yes, it's still a difficult process but it's such a positive to take charge of your life.


He came over briefly the other night to pick up more of his stuff. He brought his secret phone to me as a gesture towards reconciliation (he thought anyway I guess...would have been more useful 18 months ago instead of all that time of trickle truth and outright lies and more fishing for other women... 🤦*♀) . Well I looked at it for about 30 seconds (enough to see no texts were on it and there were 16 pics...didn’t even click on the individual pics just saw the mini previews.. finally I am just DONE and don’t even care anymore thank goodness) and handed it back. He had deleted EVERYTHING out of it but a few not that racy photos of the OW (well the only verified PA anyway I know there is a lot more I’ll never know) For so long I thought if I Just had that phone all would be well. If I could just see that he was finally truthful maybe I could move on with him. Ummmm nope. All it did was solidify how pathetic he is and how dumb he must think I am. Ohh thanks so much for the empty deleted phone...Lol... I felt a weight lift off me that night. Knew 100% that nothing he ever does again will be enough for me. HE is not enough for me. I was not enough for him. He is a pathetic little man who needs constant validation from women to feel good. He can never be truthful and thinks throwing these little bones to me would be enough. I am no longer the codependent little 20 year old he first groomed and married (I say that because he was ten years older and it’s obvious to me now that he preys on young women- OW was 20 and he’s 50...🤦*♀) I am that girl no longer. I am a strong educated valuable woman and someday I will meet someone who will appreciate my intelligence, humor, loyalty etc. I am still semi young, in shape and attractive. I have had plenty of friends both male and female remind me of that lately. I just never could hear them before. I don’t need him. He’ll still be trying to prey on young vulnerable girls until he’s too old to hook any. Meanwhile my life is slowly moving on. I joined a boot camp style gym which I always wanted to do but he was always jealous and wouldn’t allow it. I have loved the classes. When I go I actually sleep through the night! It’s a beautiful thing lol. I ordered a meal prep service because well I like it and he never wanted that kind of food. I restarted therapy. I began going to happy hours with coworkers (also always forbidden). I am slowly reclaiming myself. My kids and I will be just fine. I have everything. My home, my career, my kids, the pets, good friends, support from you guys. He on the otherhand has nothing. No family...kids won’t even talk to him despite me saying that they should continue a relationship with him because he’s still their dad. No pets. No me. Just his meaningless shallow little fantasy life. Good riddance to him!


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## 20yr (Apr 19, 2019)

Reeney said:


> He came over briefly the other night to pick up more of his stuff. He brought his secret phone to me as a gesture towards reconciliation (he thought anyway I guess...would have been more useful 18 months ago instead of all that time of trickle truth and outright lies and more fishing for other women... 🤦*♀) . Well I looked at it for about 30 seconds (enough to see no texts were on it and there were 16 pics...didn’t even click on the individual pics just saw the mini previews.. finally I am just DONE and don’t even care anymore thank goodness) and handed it back. He had deleted EVERYTHING out of it but a few not that racy photos of the OW (well the only verified PA anyway I know there is a lot more I’ll never know) For so long I thought if I Just had that phone all would be well. If I could just see that he was finally truthful maybe I could move on with him. Ummmm nope. All it did was solidify how pathetic he is and how dumb he must think I am. Ohh thanks so much for the empty deleted phone...Lol... I felt a weight lift off me that night. Knew 100% that nothing he ever does again will be enough for me. HE is not enough for me. I was not enough for him. He is a pathetic little man who needs constant validation from women to feel good. He can never be truthful and thinks throwing these little bones to me would be enough. I am no longer the codependent little 20 year old he first groomed and married (I say that because he was ten years older and it’s obvious to me now that he preys on young women- OW was 20 and he’s 50...🤦*♀) I am that girl no longer. I am a strong educated valuable woman and someday I will meet someone who will appreciate my intelligence, humor, loyalty etc. I am still semi young, in shape and attractive. I have had plenty of friends both male and female remind me of that lately. I just never could hear them before. I don’t need him. He’ll still be trying to prey on young vulnerable girls until he’s too old to hook any. Meanwhile my life is slowly moving on. I joined a boot camp style gym which I always wanted to do but he was always jealous and wouldn’t allow it. I have loved the classes. When I go I actually sleep through the night! It’s a beautiful thing lol. I ordered a meal prep service because well I like it and he never wanted that kind of food. I restarted therapy. I began going to happy hours with coworkers (also always forbidden). I am slowly reclaiming myself. My kids and I will be just fine. I have everything. My home, my career, my kids, the pets, good friends, support from you guys. He on the otherhand has nothing. No family...kids won’t even talk to him despite me saying that they should continue a relationship with him because he’s still their dad. No pets. No me. Just his meaningless shallow little fantasy life. Good riddance to him!


You go, girl!

:woohoo:


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

The hardest part in these situations is that we find it impossible to believe that someone can actually BEHAVE this way. My gosh, since we don't behave like that it becomes absolutely mind-bending and reality shifting. It's very hard for our brains to think that way.
The most difficult part is wrapping our brains around the fact that YES, there are actually people like that OUT THERE. People we've loved, cared for and/or been friends with.
It makes us question ourselves. How didn't I see this? What's wrong with me that I didn't see this? What's wrong with me that I let someone fool me/treat me this way?

The short answer is THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. As good people, we honestly expect the same from others. It bends our reality when people behave so grossly out of the "ordinary" for human expectation.

I'm sad and glad that you got more info. It helped you to close the door decisively. Go forward from here.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Absolutely *NOTHING* these slime bag cheaters do shocks me anymore.
> 
> Nothing.
> 
> ...


I don't always agree with how bluntly you often state things. But I have to give you a gold medal on this one! :grin2:


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

aquarius1 said:


> The hardest part in these situations is that we find it impossible to believe that someone can actually BEHAVE this way. My gosh, since we don't behave like that it becomes absolutely mind-bending and reality shifting. It's very hard for our brains to think that way.
> The most difficult part is wrapping our brains around the fact that YES, there are actually people like that OUT THERE. People we've loved, cared for and/or been friends with.
> It makes us question ourselves. How didn't I see this? What's wrong with me that I didn't see this? What's wrong with me that I let someone fool me/treat me this way?
> 
> ...



Thank you. It is so difficult. I feel very naive and gullible but I know deep down it’s not my fault. I think everyone is like me (loyal, trusting, caring etc.) but as you said that is not always the case...there are actually people like him out there...deceptive, cheating, etc. ... depressing and a powerful lesson for me.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

None of this is your fault. He is a broken individual who turned your life into a game of fear, suspicion, and gotcha. In the end that's what it was. 

Your description of him is telling. He bounces from excuse to pathetic lure to outright lie. Anything to get you locked down at home so that he can feel anchored as he flits from skanky conquest to skanky conquest. He sounds like an insecure validation *****.

I hope you can keep your resolve. Come here for help if you need it.


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## Reeney (Aug 17, 2019)

alte Dame said:


> None of this is your fault. He is a broken individual who turned your life into a game of fear, suspicion, and gotcha. In the end that's what it was.
> 
> Your description of him is telling. He bounces from excuse to pathetic lure to outright lie. Anything to get you locked down at home so that he can feel anchored as he flits from skanky conquest to skanky conquest. He sounds like an insecure validation *****.
> 
> I hope you can keep your resolve. Come here for help if you need it.


It’s been about a month and 9/10 days are great. I’ve been keeping myself too busy to think much but it’s crept up the last few days. Had all my std testing (all good thank goodness) but stirred up a lot more anger and other emotions. Finally got him to split up the cell phone plan and move most of his stuff out. Its so peaceful without him here. It’s a process to unravel things we have together but my resolve remains strong. Thanks guys!


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