# Conflict with Wife; Now Considering Divorce



## john555

New to the forum and have been reading some of the other posts. I've been married for 7 years and with my wife for 13 total.

Things were pretty good between my wife and I until one weekend almost a month ago. She had some dental surgery, took Friday off, and spent most of the weekend drugged up and sleeping. I took the day off with her, drove her around, and was at the house all weekend. So, I have 3 out of state coworkers who I'm also personal friends with. I've been waiting for them to come to my area for a while (1 for 2 years, other 2 for 1 year), and they were all coming Monday - Wednesday for their first time, and probably last time for a year. I planned to invite them to come over one night, so I spent the weekend cleaning the house, and finishing up small projects. My wife flips out on me Sunday night, because I wasn't 'there' for her. Even though I was at the house the whole time, and regularly checking on her, she basically claims I should of just sat there the whole weekend next to her while she sleeps for 3 days. I apologize for the misunderstanding, then she says she doesn't want my friends coming over, because she's uncomfortable with it, but won't give a reason. This gets me a little mad, because most of my friends live out of town, and so I rarely get to see any of my friends. 90% of the time we hang out with people, it's her friends. We've had her friends stay over, and I've cleaned the house the same way, given up my time to be a good host. Hell, I've even picked up and dropped some off at the airport. So I 'm getting irritated with the double standards. Then she goes on saying I don't love her anymore and I care about my friends more than her. Completely not true, I was just trying to take advantage of the one time they all finally come here. So she blows up on me Sunday night. Monday comes and I hang out with them all day at work and after. My wife has work then college class after on Mondays and doesn't get home until around 9-9:30. I get home an hour after her and she blows up on me again. Mind you, she has chosen to hang out with her friends over me many times, and I've never complained. I'm married to her, plan to be around, and I get how other people's schedules can be limiting, so I try to allow her to work with that, and all I expected was the same. Like I said, I don't get to spend much time with any of my friends, since not many live near here anymore. Then she argues with me until 3am throwing out all the insults, guilt tripping she could. She says we are done and that we will be getting a divorce. I figured she was still just upset about the weekend, and just blowing off steam. My wife comes to happy hour with us the next day, acts like everything is fine, then goes back to being cold and arguing as soon as we get home. I thought all of this was just going to last a couple days, but it's been almost a month, and now I am lost. I get her being mad, but to the extremes she is taking everything, it seems a bit much for me just wanting to hang out with some out of town friends for 3 days. She acts as if I cheated on her or something.

Main points, she says she refuses to file a divorce, but that I need to because I don't love her anymore (not true). She brought it up a lot the first week after, but then it died down some. She moved to the other bedroom, so I figured she wanted space, but then she blew up on me more saying giving her space won't fix anything, so I'm staying with her in the guest bedroom (I don't get it). I've found tons of stuff for how to fix marriages, make your spouse feel more loved, appreciated, ect. Lots of info on that, but I am trying to figure out how to get from where I am now to that point. She has a massive emotional barrier up, and I can't get it down.

So here's the main ups and downs.

Ups for saving marriage:
- She has me stay in guest bedroom with her, I imagine this shows she still wants me around
- She allows me to hug and cuddle her at night, but she won't hug me back
- The verbal abuse has become less the past 2 weeks
- In-laws are coming in a month and they really like me

Downs for losing it:
- She's said we are getting divorced at least a dozen times in the past month, but I have to initiate it. Typically, I'd see this as a scare tactic, but it's starting to be used too much for that.
- Our neighbors are selling their house and she made the comment that hopefully they sell it quickly for a high price to make selling ours easier
- She has become extremely verbally abusive and has insulted me on everything she can when she bursts into these 'moods.' She's like that about 30% of the time, the other 70% is cold shoulder treatment 
- She often leaves without a word. She left last Sat and Sunday for several hours to hang out with her friends. Just walked out the door without a word. She gets off around 5-5:30, and she didn't get home until 11 last night. This seems pretty hypocritical. I get she is trying to "show me how it feels" but since this was the backbone of her argument for the whole fight, doing it multiple times doesn't justify your actions. I haven't attacked her over it, I've just acted as if everything is normal
- She said as soon as she graduates in May, we are parting ways. We are done and nothing will fix it. I asked her why she keeps arguing with me then, since it's a pointless waste of time, since we are done, trying to call a bluff. I even asked why she still planned thanksgiving with people over if we are done. her response was that we can tell people there and "oh, I bet your dad will be proud of you." He's had 2 divorces.
- She says we've had these issues for 2 years (me not loving her or respecting her) and she's over it. This is a total lie. I've gone out of my way pretty much all the time to show I love her. We have had very few issues the past two years. In fact, I thought they were some of the best we've had since being together.


The hard parts where I am stuck:
- I don't know how to talk to her. If I try talking about what happened, she just becomes verbally abusive, and throws insults at me for anything she can, as if I am fighting a middle school child. If I talk about anything else, she gives one word responses, and is cold. She even said "I'm going to make our communications as painful as possible for you"
- She says I act like nothing happened. This isn't true, I realized it happened, but I don't know what response I'm supposed to have. Am I supposed to be angry, throw stuff around the house non-stop, or cry in a corner? I'm just acting like an adult, and every time I try talking to her, it ends up like the bullet above. How can I show her that I still feel guilty, didn't forget about it, and that I am not ignoring it without getting attacked? This is where I am really struggling.
- She literally compares this to cheating. I told her that I am sorry for putting my friends as a higher priority, since they were coming from out of town, and I'd like us to work past it. She literally can't move past those couple days though. She has even compared it on the same level as cheating saying "If I went and cheated on you, you wouldn't be able to move past it." Woahh there, apples and watermelons on that one. More like if I came home, and she came hours after me, because she was hanging out with her friends. That's happened dozens of times and I hardly ever complain, let alone threaten divorce.
- Speaking of, should I call her out on her ditching me for friends? In fact, it's 8pm right now, she should have been home at 6, and I haven't heard a word. I know she will play the 'now you know how it feels' but at the same time, how can she truly justify her actions this way? I have called her out on her double standards before, and she just turned it to me not showing any guilt, and just trying to turn the blame on her. No, I am trying to show she is overreacting for something she does on the norm.
- The verbal abuse, threats of leaving, and double standards have really started pushing me away. Before, I was 100% for saving the marriage, and getting through it. Now, I am starting to drift towards the divorce side.
- If I do 100 good things and 1 bad, she will only remember the bad, then over exaggerate it. This is also making me feel "what's the point of trying anymore" and moving towards giving up. I judge her on her overall behavior for the past 13 years. She just seems to want to judge me on that 1 week only, and forget everything else.

Sorry, this is getting kind of long. The main summary is, to me she is far over reacting to what happened. I still tried to see things from her point, apologize, and make it better, but she doesn't want to let go. I still want to save our marriage, but the longer it takes, the more I am starting to let go of that idea. She's super cold or tries to lash out at me, and says its over. I can't tell if this is all a bluff to try and mega guilt trip me, or if it's the truth. She hasn't been like this before, it was as if a light switch flipped in her head. Like I said, I originally I chalked it up to stress from work/school and surgery, and expected this to last 5 days max. 

I don't even know what I should do at this point. I've found a lot of fixing it once that wall comes down, but I can't get it down. I talk about what happened, and it's a one way assault on me. I try acting like a good husband, get her to 'fall back in love with the man she originally did' technique, and it's me not having guilt or acting like nothing happened. I say I love her and want to fix it and the response is "no you don't and you don't really care." So it seems like no matter what I do, it's wrong. She's just all of a sudden become a super toxic person and it seems all the love she had for me just vanished. Right now, I only see two options. Option 1, take the abuse, keep loving her, and try to show her why she married me to begin with, but this looks like it could take a couple months. Option 2, just accept things are over, and prepare for the divorce. I have to look out for myself, it will be emotionally hard to let go, so I should start the process of detaching myself now. If option 1 fails, I'll probably regret not starting option 2 sooner. Another tip I've seen if people say to move on and act like you don't care, this will tend to bring them back. Seems like doing this would justify her "you don't love me anymore and are just acting like nothing happened" argument. So please, any advice will help.

13 years and I feel like I just woke up in the middle of a minefield.

- John


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## Livvie

Well, I'd choose option 2. She sounds unreasonable, unlikeable, and life with her sounds pretty hellish. Certainly not an enhancing life partnership for you.

I'm sure other posters will be here soon suggesting multiple ways you should kiss her ass to get her to "change".


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## niceguy47460

Have you checked her phone . I would almost bet she is cheating . When they call you a cheater and says it's like you are cheating that is almost a given that she is the one cheating . What she is doing are red flags . She is seeing someone else .


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## sokillme

She sounds like she has mental illness or a personality disorder or something. Is she always like this?

Life is too short shesh.


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## farsidejunky

My wife used to threaten divorce all the time. At the advice of a wise poster on this forum, I answered her with the following, and it was the last time she ever threatened it.

"If you want to divorce, I understand, and I will miss you. I likely won't find anybody I love as much as you. But I will settle for somebodywho can resolve their differences without threats and emotional abuse."

My wife absolutely lost her **** at that, and she threw a shampoo bottle at me.

I've then informed her that if she ever threw anything at me again or laid another finger on me in anger, my next step would be to phone the police and report her for domestic violence.

There's a lot of talk about toxic masculinity, and its negative impact on women. The flip side to that coin is that toxic masculinity also insists that men can't be victims of abuse because we are stronger. Bovine excrement.

Now, that is not to say that you are blameless in this. But frankly, your wife can jump up and down, complain, give you the silent treatment, etc, all she wants. She is doing it to get a reaction out of you, and it is working.

The other thing I wouldn't tolerate is her trying to act like everything is okay in public, and then turning around and being abusive in private. The next time you were in public when she is behaving this way, I would simply tell her that you have too much respect for your friends to pretend as if everything is okay while in their presence, then I would separate yourself from her and find somebody else to talk to. I would also make sure to say it loud enough that there is no mystery from anyone around you about things being okay.

In short, you need to work on how to enforce your boundaries. Don't think that simply because you are a man, and bigger / stronger, that you should simply put up with this.

Also learn the following statements:

*I'm not okay with x (yelling, screaming, silent treatment, etc.).

Use this anytime she does something that she shouldn't, such as yelling or screaming at you.

*I'm sorry you feel that way.

Use this statement anytime she tells you you're a lousy husband, or some other nonsense. It is the perfect statement to deflect her anger back at her. It's effectively holding a mirror in front of her when she's raging.

*You do what you feel you have to do. I will do the same.

UCS anytime she threatens divorce, or threatens anything for that matter. Again... Mirror... Reflection... Raging.

*Are you done?

use this anytime you feel like you are about to repeat any of the first three.

Boundaries, my man. in the meantime, you may want to give serious consideration as to whether or not you can remain married to her. She may be like my wife, and just need somebody to put her in her place when she is emotionally raging. Conversely, she may not be capable of improvement. 


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## john555

Livvie said:


> Well, I'd choose option 2. She sounds unreasonable, unlikeable, and life with her sounds pretty hellish. Certainly not an enhancing life partnership for you.
> 
> I'm sure other posters will be here soon suggesting multiple ways you should kiss her ass to get her to "change".





sokillme said:


> She sounds like she has mental illness or a personality disorder or something. Is she always like this?
> 
> Life is too short shesh.


To answer both of your questions at once. She hasn't been like this for the past 13 years. Well, let me rephrase that. We've gotten into fights before, and she's acted this way, but it's always lasted a couple days, and been over much more serious things. Never this long over such a small thing.

So Livvie, this is kind of out of the norm. I agree with you if she stays like this, but if it's a phase, then I don't want to potentially ruin the rest of my marriage over something that was temporary.

sokillme, too sudden and too coincidental to be something like that. If anything close, it would be a mental breakdown from stress due to everything else, and I am just an easy target. Maybe mid-life crisis, even though she's only 33?


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## john555

farsidejunky said:


> My wife used to threaten divorce all the time. At the advice of a wise poster on this forum, I answered her with the following, and it was the last time she ever threatened it.
> 
> "If you want to divorce, I understand, and I will miss you. I likely won't find anybody I love as much as you. But I will settle for somebodywho can resolve their differences without threats and emotional abuse."
> 
> Now, that is not to say that you are blameless in this. But frankly, your wife can jump up and down, complain, give you the silent treatment, etc, all she wants. She is doing it to get a reaction out of you, and it is working.


That was some pretty good advice and I expect a similar reaction to the first part. 

I'm willing to take blame for things I have done wrong and have apologized for them. She just doesn't want to accept it. Yeah, agreed, she definitely wants and is getting a reaction out of me. But I feel like she wants a certain one, but does the wrong things to get it, and gets even more upset when I give her the wrong reaction.

I'll definitely keep those replies in mind, thanks!


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## sunsetmist

Thinking y'all at least need to give marital counseling a try. A third party can help achieve better balance. (Think a complete physical is in order for her also.) 

If she refuses, then I think she is looking for excuses to divorce, but wants you to take the blame. I'd quietly check for OM--start with phone and consider her work environment, especially the friends that she goes out with or the location.


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## SunCMars

Her behavior smacks of severe depression and anxiety.

Is she taking any sort of ADHD drug, maybe Adderall, amphetamines, or CNS stimulants?
Drugs would one of my first guesses.

Does she have any toxic friends who push the single life?

I agree, she is prepping you, planning on divorcing you.

She hates and resents you, oh, it really shows.

So sorry.





KB-


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## sokillme

john555 said:


> To answer both of your questions at once. She hasn't been like this for the past 13 years. Well, let me rephrase that. We've gotten into fights before, and she's acted this way, but it's always lasted a couple days, and been over much more serious things. Never this long over such a small thing.
> 
> So Livvie, this is kind of out of the norm. I agree with you if she stays like this, but if it's a phase, then I don't want to potentially ruin the rest of my marriage over something that was temporary.
> 
> sokillme, too sudden and too coincidental to be something like that. If anything close, it would be a mental breakdown from stress due to everything else, and I am just an easy target. Maybe mid-life crisis, even though she's only 33?


Check your phone bill.


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## sokillme

SunCMars said:


> Her behavior smacks of severe depression and anxiety.
> 
> Is she taking any sort of ADHD drug, maybe Adderall, amphetamines, or CNS stimulants?
> Drugs would one of my first guesses.
> 
> Does she have any toxic friends who push the single life?
> 
> I agree, she is prepping you, planning on divorcing you.
> 
> She hates and resents you, oh, it really shows.
> 
> So sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KB-


Or she cheated.


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## niceguy47460

The first and last time my ex acted like that she was cheating . You should really check her phone for texting another guy and see what her and her friends are talking about .


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## Tilted 1

john555 said:


> New to the forum and have been reading some of the other posts. I've been married for 7 years and with my wife for 13 total.
> 
> Things were pretty good between my wife and I until one weekend almost a month ago. She had some dental surgery, took Friday off, and spent most of the weekend drugged up and sleeping. I took the day off with her, drove her around, and was at the house all weekend. So, I have 3 out of state coworkers who I'm also personal friends with. I've been waiting for them to come to my area for a while (1 for 2 years, other 2 for 1 year), and they were all coming Monday - Wednesday for their first time, and probably last time for a year. I planned to invite them to come over one night, so I spent the weekend cleaning the house, and finishing up small projects. My wife flips out on me Sunday night, because I wasn't 'there' for her. Even though I was at the house the whole time, and regularly checking on her, she basically claims I should of just sat there the whole weekend next to her while she sleeps for 3 days. I apologize for the misunderstanding, then she says she doesn't want my friends coming over, because she's uncomfortable with it, but won't give a reason. This gets me a little mad, because most of my friends live out of town, and so I rarely get to see any of my friends. 90% of the time we hang out with people, it's her friends. We've had her friends stay over, and I've cleaned the house the same way, given up my time to be a good host. Hell, I've even picked up and dropped some off at the airport. So I 'm getting irritated with the double standards. Then she goes on saying I don't love her anymore and I care about my friends more than her. Completely not true, I was just trying to take advantage of the one time they all finally come here. So she blows up on me Sunday night. Monday comes and I hang out with them all day at work and after. My wife has work then college class after on Mondays and doesn't get home until around 9-9:30. I get home an hour after her and she blows up on me again. Mind you, she has chosen to hang out with her friends over me many times, and I've never complained. I'm married to her, plan to be around, and I get how other people's schedules can be limiting, so I try to allow her to work with that, and all I expected was the same. Like I said, I don't get to spend much time with any of my friends, since not many live near here anymore. Then she argues with me until 3am throwing out all the insults, guilt tripping she could. She says we are done and that we will be getting a divorce. I figured she was still just upset about the weekend, and just blowing off steam. My wife comes to happy hour with us the next day, acts like everything is fine, then goes back to being cold and arguing as soon as we get home. I thought all of this was just going to last a couple days, but it's been almost a month, and now I am lost. I get her being mad, but to the extremes she is taking everything, it seems a bit much for me just wanting to hang out with some out of town friends for 3 days. She acts as if I cheated on her or something.
> 
> Main points, she says she refuses to file a divorce, but that I need to because I don't love her anymore (not true). She brought it up a lot the first week after, but then it died down some. She moved to the other bedroom, so I figured she wanted space, but then she blew up on me more saying giving her space won't fix anything, so I'm staying with her in the guest bedroom (I don't get it). I've found tons of stuff for how to fix marriages, make your spouse feel more loved, appreciated, ect. Lots of info on that, but I am trying to figure out how to get from where I am now to that point. She has a massive emotional barrier up, and I can't get it down.
> 
> So here's the main ups and downs.
> 
> Ups for saving marriage:
> - She has me stay in guest bedroom with her, I imagine this shows she still wants me around
> - She allows me to hug and cuddle her at night, but she won't hug me back
> - The verbal abuse has become less the past 2 weeks
> - In-laws are coming in a month and they really like me
> 
> Downs for losing it:
> - She's said we are getting divorced at least a dozen times in the past month, but I have to initiate it. Typically, I'd see this as a scare tactic, but it's starting to be used too much for that.
> - Our neighbors are selling their house and she made the comment that hopefully they sell it quickly for a high price to make selling ours easier
> - She has become extremely verbally abusive and has insulted me on everything she can when she bursts into these 'moods.' She's like that about 30% of the time, the other 70% is cold shoulder treatment
> - She often leaves without a word. She left last Sat and Sunday for several hours to hang out with her friends. Just walked out the door without a word. She gets off around 5-5:30, and she didn't get home until 11 last night. This seems pretty hypocritical. I get she is trying to "show me how it feels" but since this was the backbone of her argument for the whole fight, doing it multiple times doesn't justify your actions. I haven't attacked her over it, I've just acted as if everything is normal
> - She said as soon as she graduates in May, we are parting ways. We are done and nothing will fix it. I asked her why she keeps arguing with me then, since it's a pointless waste of time, since we are done, trying to call a bluff. I even asked why she still planned thanksgiving with people over if we are done. her response was that we can tell people there and "oh, I bet your dad will be proud of you." He's had 2 divorces.
> - She says we've had these issues for 2 years (me not loving her or respecting her) and she's over it. This is a total lie. I've gone out of my way pretty much all the time to show I love her. We have had very few issues the past two years. In fact, I thought they were some of the best we've had since being together.
> 
> 
> The hard parts where I am stuck:
> - I don't know how to talk to her. If I try talking about what happened, she just becomes verbally abusive, and throws insults at me for anything she can, as if I am fighting a middle school child. If I talk about anything else, she gives one word responses, and is cold. She even said "I'm going to make our communications as painful as possible for you"
> - She says I act like nothing happened. This isn't true, I realized it happened, but I don't know what response I'm supposed to have. Am I supposed to be angry, throw stuff around the house non-stop, or cry in a corner? I'm just acting like an adult, and every time I try talking to her, it ends up like the bullet above. How can I show her that I still feel guilty, didn't forget about it, and that I am not ignoring it without getting attacked? This is where I am really struggling.
> - She literally compares this to cheating. I told her that I am sorry for putting my friends as a higher priority, since they were coming from out of town, and I'd like us to work past it. She literally can't move past those couple days though. She has even compared it on the same level as cheating saying "If I went and cheated on you, you wouldn't be able to move past it." Woahh there, apples and watermelons on that one. More like if I came home, and she came hours after me, because she was hanging out with her friends. That's happened dozens of times and I hardly ever complain, let alone threaten divorce.
> - Speaking of, should I call her out on her ditching me for friends? In fact, it's 8pm right now, she should have been home at 6, and I haven't heard a word. I know she will play the 'now you know how it feels' but at the same time, how can she truly justify her actions this way? I have called her out on her double standards before, and she just turned it to me not showing any guilt, and just trying to turn the blame on her. No, I am trying to show she is overreacting for something she does on the norm.
> - The verbal abuse, threats of leaving, and double standards have really started pushing me away. Before, I was 100% for saving the marriage, and getting through it. Now, I am starting to drift towards the divorce side.
> - If I do 100 good things and 1 bad, she will only remember the bad, then over exaggerate it. This is also making me feel "what's the point of trying anymore" and moving towards giving up. I judge her on her overall behavior for the past 13 years. She just seems to want to judge me on that 1 week only, and forget everything else.
> 
> Sorry, this is getting kind of long. The main summary is, to me she is far over reacting to what happened. I still tried to see things from her point, apologize, and make it better, but she doesn't want to let go. I still want to save our marriage, but the longer it takes, the more I am starting to let go of that idea. She's super cold or tries to lash out at me, and says its over. I can't tell if this is all a bluff to try and mega guilt trip me, or if it's the truth. She hasn't been like this before, it was as if a light switch flipped in her head. Like I said, I originally I chalked it up to stress from work/school and surgery, and expected this to last 5 days max.
> 
> I don't even know what I should do at this point. I've found a lot of fixing it once that wall comes down, but I can't get it down. I talk about what happened, and it's a one way assault on me. I try acting like a good husband, get her to 'fall back in love with the man she originally did' technique, and it's me not having guilt or acting like nothing happened. I say I love her and want to fix it and the response is "no you don't and you don't really care." So it seems like no matter what I do, it's wrong. She's just all of a sudden become a super toxic person and it seems all the love she had for me just vanished. Right now, I only see two options. Option 1, take the abuse, keep loving her, and try to show her why she married me to begin with, but this looks like it could take a couple months. Option 2, just accept things are over, and prepare for the divorce. I have to look out for myself, it will be emotionally hard to let go, so I should start the process of detaching myself now. If option 1 fails, I'll probably regret not starting option 2 sooner. Another tip I've seen if people say to move on and act like you don't care, this will tend to bring them back. Seems like doing this would justify her "you don't love me anymore and are just acting like nothing happened" argument. So please, any advice will help.
> 
> 13 years and I feel like I just woke up in the middle of a minefield.
> 
> - John


John, next time she's home get her purse, and get you balls back. Ok you are playing the pick me game! And she got someone else on the side. She's saving herself for him, why do you think she out all the time? And what your seeing is the 180 in reverse, she already compared you to cheating. Most cheaters do exactly this. And belittling you at every corner

Most cheaters shifting blame to take the spot light off of their own wayward actions. Now vthe interesting thing about her style is she got a pair of big one, and got you so distracted by her tantrum's it's throwing you off. She off with friends and out late with them. Come on John, she wants you to file so she can say you ended the marriage, so she's then free to shackup with her new boyfriend. Hell she's only 33 you don't say. And she keeps her little image. It's the 7year itch. And in mid to early 40s.

When you file, your the bad guy and when her next relationship fails she gots you to blame. You need to read -

Hold on to Your Nuts: The Relationship Manual for Men
Book by Wayne Levine.... And - 

No More Mr. Nice Guy
Book by Robert A. Glover.......

She's checked out, the writing is on the wall. Bet it's someone from college, and he joins her and maybe her friends. But l wouldn't bet on it. And your correct you are in the war, her War against you and she's winning.


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## Adelais

Regarding your wife expecting you to be by her side while she was out on pain meds, I have some experience with several surgeries the last couple of years. She is not being reasonable, and sounds childish or selfish.

When zonked out because pain meds, or having to remain in bed for an extended period to allow healing, I didn't expect anyone to sit by my side. All I hoped for was for someone to bring me something to eat and drink a few times a day.

Regarding your friends coming over, as long as she wasn't expected to do all the work (because she might still need rest) I don't know what her problem was. It sounds like something else is going on with her.

When did your wife begin acting like this?


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## EveningThoughts

Are the friends you mention, all male, or were any of them female?

Apologies if the answer was in your original post and I just missed it. It was your wife's comment about feeling like being cheated on, that made me question this.


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## ConanHub

She is giving you a huge **** test and has a good probability of cheating.

She also might be having a health problem as this started around a medical procedure.

Regardless, don't tapdance to her tune.


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## Rainboww

The only explanation that I can think of to explain her behaviour is that she actually felt like you were cheating. If a girl was amongst your group of friends that you wanted to invite over and your wife was laying in bed recovering from her dental surgery while you were cleaning away, she may have felt as though you were trying to impress that girl. Especially if your wife feels that your friend who is a girl is somewhat flirtatious or trying to throw herself at you. 

Now, if your group of friends were all guys, then her behaviour would be extremely out of line. And I would think she is suffering from depression, stress & anxiety. I doubt she is cheating as others have suggested but you definitely can never know in this life and would be worth having a look at her phone/email maybe.

I don’t think divorce should be on the cards over this conflict though. Everything can be resolved with time (marriage counseling) but regardless of her reasons for being upset, verbal abuse shouldn’t be tolerated.
Next time she throws out insults, maybe tell her that you’ve had it with her attitude and verbal abuse and that you’re going to give her what she wants and go spend the night at a family member’s or friend’s house? Just to incite change in her maybe. She seems to have lost gratitude for the good relationship/marriage she has with you.


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## SunCMars

sokillme said:


> Or she cheated.


Who am I to argue? I am a TAM follower.

Cheaters, 'some of them', think themselves wanted, desirous, and much more worthy than their BS.

Because of their success in finding another lover, they look down their nose at their dated and old spouse.

Every imaginable problem that they have is laid at their spouses feet.
Sure, their spouse may be that louse, but then, what are they?

In this case, OP appears the good man, not deserving of this disrespecting treatment.



King Alroy-


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## Tex X

john555 said:


> Ups for saving marriage:
> - She has me stay in guest bedroom with her, I imagine this shows she still wants me around
> - She allows me to hug and cuddle her at night, but she won't hug me back


Umm - you are just confirming that you are a weak man and that she has lost all respect for you. Get in your own damn bed and let her sleep alone in the guest bedroom. Who died and made her queen?


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## jsmart

This screams of projection. I would bet my next mortgage payment that she's having an affair with either a co-worker or someone from school. Many cheaters accuse their betrayed spouse of doing exactly what they're actually doing.

The fighting is a way to avoid intimacy. It's the best way to avoid cheating on her real man. Getting you to pull the switch on the D is so she can avoid being the reason for the divorce. She can tell everyone that she tried to work it out but that you didn't love her and were probably cheating.

You better do some detective work. I doubt she's hanging out with female friends, unless they're in a group that includes a particular guy.


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## badsanta

john555 said:


> Ups for saving marriage:
> - She has me stay in guest bedroom with her, I imagine this shows she still wants me around


*NO!* 

You stay in the master bedroom and she can go sleep somewhere else. Be very calm about it and tell her you want to work on the marriage and that if it is indeed over that she can be the one to get up and leave. 

She will get upset and then get up and go to sleep in the guest bedroom and find a way to blame you for being unreasonable. 

Follow her there and tell her *NO!* Tell her that she needs to LEAVE as in LEAVE the house. Then calmly tell her she can stay, but only if she is willing to work on the marriage. 

She will leave. She will need to see and experience herself doing it in order to realize what is going on. It will be unpleasant. But then you will have a new starting point for working on things if and when she comes back. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## In Absentia

Are you sure it was dental surgery and not brain surgery? Sounds like she's had a personality transplant too...


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## 3Xnocharm

Wow, she is unhinged. OP I dont feel like you did anything wrong here. Wanting to spend time with out of town friends is perfectly reasonable, and it didnt sound to me like you would be excluding her. She is out of line. I have a strong suspicion that she is likely cheating, the projection onto the spouse is pretty typical of someone in the midst of an affair. Either that or she has some kind of personality disorder... because this is in no way normal behavior, and you should not be expected to tolerate it. 

Call her bluff. File for divorce.


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## Marduk

This is pretty much what my ex wife did when she started cheating and decided I was an inconvenience in her life. 

She also had a high likelihood of having a personality disorder. 

My advice to you is to get a lawyer and to stop talking to your wife. You can’t negotiate if she’s cheating, or if she has a personality disorder, or if she’s just an ******* and wants out. 

Back up all important documents. Take all heirlooms that are yours out of the house. Pick a bedroom and put a lock on it and make it just yours. Act single. Do what your lawyer says. 

If she goes on a tirade or becomes violent, pull out your phone and record it. 

This is done.


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## snerg

niceguy47460 said:


> The first and last time my ex acted like that she was cheating . You should really check her phone for texting another guy and see what her and her friends are talking about .


I was thinking this.

You should see who her new boyfriend(or girlfriend) is.


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## Tilted 1

What about the friends All male?


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## SunCMars

Just once, please once....

Let these TAM cheater-thinkers, eat of crow.

Freshly killed, with feet and beak, its nub intact.

All feathers eaten of.

Just once, let them be wrong.

And let me witness them munching down.

And let them see me snickering, and hearing my loud guffaws.



King Brian-


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## BluesPower

SunCMars said:


> Just once, please once....
> 
> Let these TAM cheater-thinkers, eat of crow.
> 
> Freshly killed, with feet and beak, its nub intact.
> 
> All feathers eaten of.
> 
> Just once, let them be wrong.
> 
> And let me witness them munching down.
> 
> And let them see me snickering, and hearing my loud guffaws.
> 
> King Brian-


I would love that to be the case on a lot of these threads. Unfortunately, it is almost never the case.

Even when I say it myself I hope against hope that I am wrong... So far I have not been, but I can try...


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## SunCMars

Ah, well, ahem, er, uh, she, that wife of OP's, oh' please, yes.

She IS cheating the poor man out of his sanity.

I can, and do concede this, that.

So far.


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## john555

Rainboww said:


> The only explanation that I can think of to explain her behaviour is that she actually felt like you were cheating. If a girl was amongst your group of friends that you wanted to invite over and your wife was laying in bed recovering from her dental surgery while you were cleaning away, she may have felt as though you were trying to impress that girl. Especially if your wife feels that your friend who is a girl is somewhat flirtatious or trying to throw herself at you.
> 
> Now, if your group of friends were all guys, then her behaviour would be extremely out of line. And I would think she is suffering from depression, stress & anxiety. I doubt she is cheating as others have suggested but you definitely can never know in this life and would be worth having a look at her phone/email maybe.
> 
> I don’t think divorce should be on the cards over this conflict though. Everything can be resolved with time (marriage counseling) but regardless of her reasons for being upset, verbal abuse shouldn’t be tolerated.
> Next time she throws out insults, maybe tell her that you’ve had it with her attitude and verbal abuse and that you’re going to give her what she wants and go spend the night at a family member’s or friend’s house? Just to incite change in her maybe. She seems to have lost gratitude for the good relationship/marriage she has with you.


There was 4 people total. One guy, who I knew, but not well enough to consider a friend, two girls, and another guy who I had known the longest out of them. The two guys are both married. One of the girls is married with two kids. The other girl is 10 years younger than me, and has a boyfriend. 

I could see the potential for jealousy with the girls, but neither of them are lookers to put it nicely. All five of us were hanging out together and my wife was welcome to join. She was fine by that Monday, but just had work and class. If they were to come over, it would have been on that Tuesday, and my wife would have been there. 

I agree with you on the cheating part. I won't rule it out, but it's a low probability assumption. Not a definite known fact like others are jumping to. Some of the advice from other posters I can see as dangerous, if people were to immediately go with the 'she's definitely cheating' and react that way to their spouse, they have a huge chance of definitely destroying their marriage if that's not the case. The depression, stress, and anxiety are more likely culprits like you said. Between that and the surgery, it kind of just pushed her over the edge. 

I'll check her phone when I get a chance to either confirm or rule that out.

But if that's not the case, then I still need to find a way to have her take her guard down. I've gotten some pretty good advice for how to deal with her threats and verbal abuse, but for the majority of the time, when she is being cold, distant, and won't talk, I need to figure out how to deal with that.

Some advice I've seen says to act super nice, remind her of why she fell in love with you, and be that person. That seems like pretty good advice, but falls into the trap of her accusing me of acting like nothing happened.

Other side I've seen it to just not take any of her crap, and essentially just live my own life (no contact), but I can see that building more distance and resentment if she has truly talked herself into believing that I don't love her anymore. 

Need to find a balance in the middle.


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## john555

Tex X said:


> Umm - you are just confirming that you are a weak man and that she has lost all respect for you. Get in your own damn bed and let her sleep alone in the guest bedroom. Who died and made her queen?


Tried that, didn't work out so well. I have to get up at 4am for work, she doesn't get up until 7:30. She will just stay up until 3:30 making sure I do as well. If I stay in the same bedroom as her, she let's me at least sleep.


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## john555

One other thing I will add. I was cheated on by a girlfriend in the past, so I am no stranger to that. I know a lot of the red flags and signs. Other than the projecting and being out late, which seems more like an "f*ck you, I'll put my friends before you so you see how it feels" without realizing she does that normally anyway. If she was cheating, there would likely be more suspicious behavior beforehand. Everything was great with us right before. We even went on a vacation to Europe for 10 days like 3 weeks before this happened. It's too coincidental that it all happened right when she was drugged up from surgery immediately followed by my friends coming in. If she was on the edge from stress, anxiety, depression from work and school, that might of been the final thing to kick off the storm. Typically though, I'd say that would last only a week, but if the drugs she was on might of just screwed her up hormonal, even if she was only on them a couple days. I'm not a doctor, just trying to be unbiased, and look at all possibilities, before charging in full speed collision course on the cheating thing. She seems to have calmed down some. Haven't had any verbal attacks in almost a week now, she seems to be opening up to me a hair bit more, but the emotional wall is still pretty high.


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## SunCMars

john555 said:


> One other thing I will add. I was cheated on by a girlfriend in the past, so I am no stranger to that. I know a lot of the red flags and signs. Other than the projecting and being out late, which seems more like an "f*ck you, I'll put my friends before you so you see how it feels" without realizing she does that normally anyway. If she was cheating, there would likely be more suspicious behavior beforehand. Everything was great with us right before. We even went on a vacation to Europe for 10 days like 3 weeks before this happened. *It's too coincidental that it all happened right when she was drugged up from surgery immediately followed by my friends coming in. If she was on the edge from stress, anxiety, depression from work and school, that might of been the final thing to kick off the storm.* Typically though, I'd say that would last only a week, but if the drugs she was on might of just screwed her up hormonal, even if she was only on them a couple days. I'm not a doctor, just trying to be unbiased, and look at all possibilities, before charging in full speed collision course on the cheating thing. She seems to have calmed down some. Haven't had any verbal attacks in almost a week now, she seems to be opening up to me a hair bit more, but the emotional wall is still pretty high.


You may be on to something.

In a somewhat related study of what pain meds can do to the brain, depression and anxiety were mentioned, in the study.

She may have had a very bad reaction to the pain med. prescribed. We are wired differently. Plus, she may have taken more than directed of the medication.

https://psychcentral.com/news/2013/11/20/pain-medication-causes-significant-brain-changes/62294.html


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## aquarius1

wow. Im thinking a few possibilities.

Shes cheating and looking for an “out”
Shes depressed or struggling with something.

I know this is “right out there” but since its so closely tied to her dental surgery is it possible, even remotely, that the anesthesia, the procedure, the pain meds or something caused some kind of a weird reaction in her thats manifesting this way?
Its a long shot but it seems too coincidental

I agree with others. I think butt kissing is highly overrated.
If you were a woman, would this type of cruelty, manipulation and abuse be tolerated? NO
Please dont tolerate it.

I agree with others. Switch off, stand your ground. The weaker you are the angrier she will get. Draw the line in the sand. Demand respect.

“I refuse to talk to you until you stop behaving this way”
“Im sorry that you feel that way”

Do NOT tolerate physical abuse (throwing things) under ANY circumstances. Thats domestic violence. Please call the police.
Just busy yourself when she goes silent. 
I might suggest carrying a voice recorder on you from now on for your safety if this continues.

If she threatens divorce again, tell her to lawyer up or stop saying it (shut up) Call her bluff.


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## manwithnoname

She's a selfish ***** who treats you like **** and you were used to it and accepted it. Now, possibly due to the medication, she's increased the level to the point where you feel it is too much. 

You also seem to be fine with going back to her just being a selfish ***** who treats you like ****.

Why is this acceptable to you?


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## Lila

john555 said:


> There was 4 people total. One guy, who I knew, but not well enough to consider a friend, two girls, and another guy who I had known the longest out of them. The two guys are both married. One of the girls is married with two kids. The other girl is 10 years younger than me, and has a boyfriend.
> 
> I could see the potential for jealousy with the girls, but neither of them are lookers to put it nicely. All five of us were hanging out together and my wife was welcome to join. She was fine by that Monday, but just had work and class. If they were to come over, it would have been on that Tuesday, and my wife would have been there.


Have you asked her if the reason she's so being so upset with you is that you were hanging out with 2 women? 

Do you both work? Do you share finances?


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## BluesPower

Here is the problem, with the way that she is acting, the marriage is over already. 

I almost hope that she is cheating, which I think she is... because it would give you a clear reason that you could understand. 

Unless she is kind of mentally ill, which really should not manifest at this age, it really looks like she is cheating, or she is just done. 

So check the phone bills, and look around and keep your mouth shut until you find out something. 

But being nice about all of this is stupid. You don't treat people this way, and you don't allow yourself to be treated this way. 

Good luck...


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## nekonamida

Not everyone has the classic cheating spouse who acts resentful and contemptuous. Some times people have a "perfect" spouse with a dark secret and a double life. Maybe something changed with her AP. Maybe she isn't currently cheating but has before which is why her reactions are so over-the-top but her paranoia is real. Maybe she really is having a bizarre, long lasting negative side effect to the drugs she was prescribed. There's a lot of possibilities.

Something you CAN do is check up on her. Rule out infidelity if you find it unlikely and then you can combat this from the stand point that it is the meds. Right now you're in the dark so at least try to inform yourself even if it's through process of elimination.


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## SunCMars

Our bodies are chemical factories.

If she is not cheating... 

Having low estrogen levels can cause mental problems. She needs to check this. 

Good luck in suggesting it! Talk to her PCP during her next annual check up.


*The estrogen hypothesis.* 

_Women show a tendency toward premenstrual and post*partum exacerbation of symptoms when estrogen levels are relatively low. These clinical observations, confirmed by some but not all studies, have led to the hypoth*esis that estrogens are neuroprotective and also protect against psychosis.

Estrogen withdrawal in specific brain cells may release a cascade of events that over time can increase the severity of psy*chotic and cognitive symptoms. The reason for suspecting such effects is based on what we know about estrogenic effects on neurotransmitter, cognitive, and stress-induction pathways, and—more fundamentally—on neuronal growth and atrophy.

According to the estrogen hypothesis, women are—to some degree—protected against schizophrenia by their relatively high gonadal estrogen production between puberty and menopause. Women lose this protection with the onset of perimeno*pausal estrogen fluctuation and decline, accounting for their second peak of illness onset after age 45.

Epidemiologic studies showing a second peak of schizophrenia onset in women (but not men) around the age of menopause sup*port this hypothesis. Longitudinal out*comes for schizophrenia—which are better in women than in men during late adolescence or early adulthood11—gradually even out after the first 15 years of illness, suggest*ing that women’s advantage is lost at a time approximating menopause. _
Mary V. Seeman, MD- 

If her estrogen levels have become low, she may now be showing these short tempered feelings. And showing you this unwarranted contempt. Her personality is now all pins and needles. 


I am not suggesting that a more serious condition is now presenting itself.


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## Tex X

john555 said:


> Tried that, didn't work out so well. I have to get up at 4am for work, she doesn't get up until 7:30. She will just stay up until 3:30 making sure I do as well. If I stay in the same bedroom as her, she let's me at least sleep.


So she's in control of the situation. Got it. Geez man get your f-ing balls back and sleep in your own bed. Doesn't make any sense that if you sleep with her in the guest bedroom that she'll let you sleep, and if you sleep by yourself in your bedroom she'll keep you up until 3:30. Explain to me how that make sense. It's control - she is controlling you.


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## Stillasamountain

john555 said:


> Some advice I've seen says to act super nice, remind her of why she fell in love with you, and be that person. That seems like pretty good advice.


That's horrible advice. It's called doing the "pick me" dance and its track record is abysmal. People respect strength, decisiveness, and boundaries. You said this is a pattern with her in the past, just for shorter intervals. Frankly, a few of those types of interactions (short or not) would have been enough for me. It's straight up abuse.


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## ConanHub

john555 said:


> Tried that, didn't work out so well. I have to get up at 4am for work, she doesn't get up until 7:30. She will just stay up until 3:30 making sure I do as well. If I stay in the same bedroom as her, she let's me at least sleep.


I'd divorce her so fast over this one issue it would make her head spin!


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## ConanHub

I honestly wouldn't care if she was cheating or not!

She would be gone yesterday and good riddance!

I would feel sorry for anyone blind enough to fall in with her!

Do you enjoy the abuse OP?


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## 3Xnocharm

ConanHub said:


> I'd divorce her so fast over this one issue it would make her head spin!


Right?? Complete disrespect.


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## waynejoey

she basically claims I should of just sat there the whole weekend next to her while she sleeps for 3 days
- I see a lack of communication here. You are painting a picture of your one-sided story, but I recommend being very careful to get your antenna up and really listen to your wife. How does she feel? Listen to how she feels, acknowledge it, and don't try to defend yourself.

then she says she doesn't want my friends coming over,
- It is your job as the man to honor her and keep her safe. Sure, tell her how you feel "well that makes me upset that I can't spend time with my friends, but I understand you need to feel safe right now, I choose you over them"

This gets me a little mad
- Anger is a secondary emotion. Your primary emotion is that you were disppointed that your whole scheme didn't play out the way you wanted. Life got in the way. Getting angry all the time is an indicator that you are having trouble managing your emotions and communicating with those around you. I would recommend some self-discovery to get control of this. Anger does no one any good. It will not solve anything.

90% of the time we hang out with people, it's her friends
- This is resentment. Instead of holding it in and getting angry, share your feelings with her, don't argue, and let her make the changes. Women are really receptive and emotional as communicators. She will empathaize with you in her own time and you'll see a change maybe a month or two later where she starts inviting your friends.

Then she goes on saying I don't love her anymore
- This is a cry for help. I can see where she is coming from, nothing you are doing is loving. You are very self-centered and demanding.

She says we are done and that we will be getting a divorce.
- Yea my wife told me that too. Its just a cry for help. Now my wife tells me how much she loves me every day. 

I can't even read the rest of your post, its so much defense and nonsense. You need to get off the path you are on or you will lose it all. 

1. Go to marriage builders.com, see what a love buster is, then stop doing them
2. Go get The Love Dare delivered to your phone from Amazon on the kindle app, it will take 5 mins out of your day. Do 1 a day and follow-through.
3. Enjoy your new saved marriage.


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## Mr.Married

Howdy John555,

As long as you are responding to her crazy antics she will have all the control. That is exactly what is happening. 

She has been completely shi*testing you and your losing badly. That never ends well.

The only way your going to get a hold of this is to draw and very hard and fast line in the sand. 

Believe me that when you do .... a complete melt down will follow , then you will gain some control back.

Until you stand up for yourself .... your just going to be her little BEAAAATTTTTTCCHHHHHH


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## ABHale

Sounds like she was just looking for an excuse. 

Could she be seeing someone else


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## TomNebraska

Stillasamountain said:


> That's horrible advice. It's called doing the "pick me" dance and its track record is abysmal. People respect strength, decisiveness, and boundaries. You said this is a pattern with her in the past, just for shorter intervals. Frankly, a few of those types of interactions (short or not) would have been enough for me. It's straight up abuse.


Not just that, but if her intention is to get some sort of behavior out of him, he's going along with it, and like Pavlov's Dog, she will keep doing it.

She wants him at her beck and call (_for whatever reason: anxiety, depression, fear of abandonment, who knows? it doesn't matter_). She feels she can't get this just by asking for it (_because it is unreasonable, manipulative, and controlling for an adult to demand this from another adult_), so she goes about it by provoking conflict and attacking him.

If he caves and she gets what she wants from him by doing XYZ, she will do it again. Louder and angrier next time. And as an added bonus to her, when she attacks him and demands he make her happy, she goes from a position of feeling weak and vulnerable, to feeling in charge and aggressive. AND she gets what she wants from it! 

Conflict within a relationship can get just as addicting to one side as a narcotic. 

When a spouse is willing to treat their partner this way, it doesn't bode well for the relationship.

The theory that this could be a chemical imbalance or some other hormone related issue would hold more water in my mind if it didn't last as long as it sounds like it has.


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## AandM

john555 said:


> One other thing I will add. I was cheated on by a girlfriend in the past, so I am no stranger to that. I know a lot of the red flags and signs. Other than the projecting and being out late, which seems more like an "f*ck you, I'll put my friends before you so you see how it feels" without realizing she does that normally anyway. If she was cheating, there would likely be more suspicious behavior beforehand. Everything was great with us right before. We even went on a vacation to Europe for 10 days like 3 weeks before this happened. It's too coincidental that it all happened right when she was drugged up from surgery immediately followed by my friends coming in. If she was on the edge from stress, anxiety, depression from work and school, that might of been the final thing to kick off the storm. Typically though, I'd say that would last only a week, but if the drugs she was on might of just screwed her up hormonal, even if she was only on them a couple days. I'm not a doctor, just trying to be unbiased, and look at all possibilities, before charging in full speed collision course on the cheating thing. She seems to have calmed down some. Haven't had any verbal attacks in almost a week now, she seems to be opening up to me a hair bit more, but the emotional wall is still pretty high.


Funny, that. I had surgery a few weeks ago, and did the post-op followup Friday. The paperwork they had me do was a depression screen. Turns out, post-op depression is quite common, even if the operation is a minor one.

https://www.health.com/condition/depression/depression-after-surgery
https://www.verywellhealth.com/depression-and-surgery-3157203
https://blog.udemy.com/depression-after-surgery/



> It’s not quite known exactly what factors cause this depression, though there are some thoughts about that. As depression may strike any surgery patient, there are theories as to exactly which aspects of the surgery may have a detrimental effect on patients, such as:
> 
> Anesthesia from the surgery
> Antibiotics and other medications given to treat pain
> Disorientation after the surgery
> Digestive problems caused by medication given to the patient
> Post-Surgical Traumatic Stress Syndrome
> Soreness and pain
> Being bedridden in the recovery process


While your wife's behavior as you described is over-the-top, if everything was truly fine before this, depression may be something to look into.

Although many people consider antibiotics to be minor drugs, like aspirin, they can have some very real side-effects. It is now thought that you gut bacteria play a significant role in your mood, and a broad-spectrum antibiotic like what they usually give following oral surgery is like a nuke in your gut.


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## Lila

Thread closed. OP has not been on TAM for several weeks.
@john555 if you return and would like to have the thread re-opened, please contact a moderator.


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