# I tried to hit my husband, he shoved me hard



## westcoast11 (Aug 11, 2016)

Hi all, this is my first post in this community so I appreciate any time you take to help me with this.

Last night, my husband and I got into a heated argument, and I attempted to slap him, but his arms caught mine. In retaliation, I tried to throw a punch to his shoulder/general facial area but he caught that too, then shoved me quite hard. I lost my balance and fell backward near a nightstand, and ended up with scratch cuts on my hands. I forced him to let me leave the house (he kept refusing my pleas to leave, so I threatened to rip up our marriage license to show him I was serious about needing space -- the terrible thing is, I meant it) then I spent the night in a hotel. We haven't contacted each other since.

This is the first instance in which he's truly done this. (The worst previous incident was him throwing/smashing my cell phone to the ground when I tried to slap him, or trying to nudge me away.). Not sure if it matters, but I'm 5'1 and 108 lbs; he's about 5'7 and 140-150 lbs.

The main questions I'm wondering are: does this count as domestic violence, also whether this was OK for him to do or if I should self check whether this is indeed my fault since I "instigated" it and he just resorted to self defense? I've heard of people thinking there are double standards when it comes to domestic violence and that men suffer it too, and since this is my first time ever being involved in a situation like this, I'm not sure what to think about it.

My husband is a normally calm and patient man, albeit more exhausting/possessive/intense than my previous partners (Scorpio). I'm normally very happy-go-lucky and have never laid hands on any of my previous partners. I have my flaws, I get angry sometimes and yell, but have never gotten physical. We've only been married one year so I fear it could get worse and am at a point where I'm afraid our arguments may only escalate worse from this point, and am questioning whether we're even good for one another if we're able to get under each other's skins to this level of anger/activity. Or if it will just take some outside mediation.

Any thoughts whatsoever would be so helpful.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

westcoast11 said:


> Hi all, this is my first post in this community so I appreciate any time you take to help me with this.
> 
> Last night, my husband and I got into a heated argument, and I attempted to slap him, but his arms caught mine. In retaliation, I tried to throw a punch to his shoulder/general facial area but he caught that too, then shoved me quite hard. I lost my balance and fell backward near a nightstand, and ended up with scratch cuts on my hands. I forced him to let me leave the house (he kept refusing my pleas to leave, so I threatened to rip up our marriage license to show him I was serious about needing space -- that terrible thing is, I meant it) then I spent the night in a hotel. We haven't contacted each other since.
> 
> ...


Yes, you at the least, are guilty of domestic violence. It is hard to gauge if he is also or if he is measure in his self defense.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

You are both completely out of line.

You raised hands/fists twice to him, and got shoved as a result.


Sounds like you guys need some major counseling and anger management.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

how dare him block your slaps, punches and left hooks!


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## westcoast11 (Aug 11, 2016)

not looking for sarcasm or criticism - this was a genuine question of mine.


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## Ralph Bellamy (Aug 8, 2016)

Genuinely stop attempting to hit him.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

You sound ridiculous.

"I tried to hit my husband but he pushed me away instead. Can I get him for domestic violence??"

If you find yourself having to hit someone, and find yourself in a situation of violence. You are probably:

A) Needing some help yourself in terms of anger management.
B) In the wrong relationship
C) Both


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Yes this is domestic violence. He should be turning you in as soon as possible.


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## westcoast11 (Aug 11, 2016)

that's not what I said..."can I get him for domestic violence?"
I've obviously never been in this situation before, so am trying to get some genuine outside insight. I could just as easily play the victim and not try to see the other side at all, which I'm NOT. 



COguy said:


> You sound ridiculous.
> 
> "I tried to hit my husband but he pushed me away instead. Can I get him for domestic violence??"
> 
> ...


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Yes you are guilty of domestic violence . Hitting isn't ok, not even a slap


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

westcoast11 said:


> Hi all, this is my first post in this community so I appreciate any time you take to help me with this.
> 
> Last night, my husband and I got into a heated argument, and *I attempted to slap him, but his arms caught mine. In retaliation, I tried to throw a punch to his shoulder/general facial area but he caught that too,* *then shoved me quite hard. *I lost my balance and fell backward near a nightstand, and ended up with scratch cuts on my hands. I forced him to let me leave the house (he kept refusing my pleas to leave, so I threatened to rip up our marriage license to show him I was serious about needing space -- the terrible thing is, I meant it) then I spent the night in a hotel. We haven't contacted each other since.
> 
> ...


What brought you to the point of assaulting your husband? What started it.....exactly

Stopping you from hitting him and shoving you to get away would most likely be just defending himself. Sure, you could attempt to push the issue....But, yes, you need to self-check here. What you need to ask yourself is why you believe that your attempted hitting, is not as important as his blocking and shoving (cause it sounds like that IMBW).

Why do you think your assaults will only get worse?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

westcoast11 said:


> not looking for sarcasm or criticism - this was a genuine question of mine.


My answer WAS genuine. You are guilty of domestic violence. It is unclear if his response was appropriate self defense or also domestic violence.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

westcoast11 said:


> not looking for sarcasm or criticism - this was a genuine question of mine.


You are gonna get both...You have to cull out what actually applies. We only have one side to work with. 

Attempt, if you can, to post what your husbands side of this would look like. That will enlighten you....hopefully....and us. 

There is always more to the story


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

This caller is a real peach........He should leave your azz.


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## westcoast11 (Aug 11, 2016)

Thank you for your constructive response. This is kinda wordy but here goes nothing: He asked me to help him write a thank you email to job interviewers he met with today, so when we got home I asked him to log into his gmail so I could help him write it so that all he had to do was hit 'send.' I opened up the gmail login screen for him, but he asked me if I could log into mine instead, write the email from my gmail, then just send to him to send later....which would create 3 extra unnecessary steps in my mind, and just seemed weird. So I started asking him why he didn't just want to log into his gmail directly? (We've had mistrust issues before where I caught him sexting with another girl before we were married, like a couple years ago). I thought this was all too fishy, I felt myself getting angry and tried walking away because I didn't want to start yelling. But he kept getting in my face to ask where my attitude/distant mood was now coming from. I simply asked him to let me leave and he wouldn't. So instead I just felt a surge of anger and old hurt feelings came back; I yelled out that he's obviously hiding something from me and I'm not that stupid. I tried to leave AGAIN, but then he grabbed my wrists so I attempted to slap him. Ensue rest of my post. Thoughts?
---



MarriedDude said:


> What brought you to the point of assaulting your husband? What started it.....exactly
> 
> Stopping you from hitting him and shoving you to get away would most likely be just defending himself. Sure, you could attempt to push the issue....But, yes, you need to self-check here. What you need to ask yourself is why you believe that your attempted hitting, is not as important as his blocking and shoving (cause it sounds like that IMBW).
> 
> Why do you think your assaults will only get worse?


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Betrayedone said:


> This caller is a real peach........He should leave your azz.


Kinda super non-helpful. OP is asking for advice...for help. It is almost always a drawn out process..teasing out enough details to paint a semi-accurate picture. We currently don't know what brought them to the point of the assault...

Hell....I've been slapped plenty of times in my 45 years...and pretty much, I must admit kinda of deserved about 95% of the time. This isn't saying what happened here is wrong, bad, etc...but that there is always more to the story.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Now you know. The fact that you are only 5'1" doesn't give you license to hit your husband. The fact that you didn't connect doesn't matter. What made you think it would be acceptable?


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

One year? No kids? Throw in the towel. You want to spend the rest of your life like this? 

You should have demanded he log into his email right then and there, or you're gone. 

Jeesh. What a mess. Just end the misery.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

westcoast11 said:


> Hi all, this is my first post in this community so I appreciate any time you take to help me with this.
> 
> Last night, my husband and I got into a heated argument, and I attempted to slap him, but his arms caught mine. In retaliation, I tried to throw a punch to his shoulder/general facial area but he caught that too, then shoved me quite hard. I lost my balance and fell backward near a nightstand, and ended up with scratch cuts on my hands. I forced him to let me leave the house (he kept refusing my pleas to leave, so I threatened to rip up our marriage license to show him I was serious about needing space -- the terrible thing is, I meant it) then I spent the night in a hotel. We haven't contacted each other since.
> 
> ...


It appears to me your STBH was protecting himself with the pushing of you and your fists away from him. Yes, what you perpetrated is domestic violence. So what is your question?


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

westcoast11 said:


> Thank you for your constructive response. This is kinda wordy but here goes nothing: He asked me to help him write a thank you email to job interviewers he met with today, so when we got home I asked him to log into his gmail so I could help him write it so that all he had to do was hit 'send.' I opened up the gmail login screen for him, but he asked me if I could log into mine instead, write the email from my gmail, then just send to him to send later....which would create 3 extra unnecessary steps in my mind, and just seemed weird. *So I started asking him why he didn't just want to log into his gmail directly? (We've had mistrust issues before where I caught him sexting with another girl before we were married, like a couple years ago). I thought this was all too fishy, I felt myself getting angry and tried walking away because I didn't want to start yelling. But he kept getting in my face to ask where my attitude/distant mood was now coming from.* I simply asked him to let me leave and he wouldn't. So instead I just felt a surge of anger and old hurt feelings came back; I yelled out that he's obviously hiding something from me and I'm not that stupid. I tried to leave AGAIN, but then he grabbed my wrists so I attempted to slap him. Ensue rest of my post. Thoughts?
> ---


Thats called a "Trigger"...something real or imagined or assumed, etc....that returns...in a rush...all of the feelings that were present when you were dealing with the infidelity. 

They tend to reduce over time (sometimes a long time). How was the original incident dealt with?

Do you both have each others passwords for all devices/accounts? Why not?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

westcoast11 said:


> not looking for sarcasm or criticism - this was a genuine question of mine.


You are asking the wrong question. You should be asking what constitutes domestic violence and ramifications of hitting your H/W/significant other.


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## westcoast11 (Aug 11, 2016)

I did, and he wouldn't, he kept saying "Why is this a big deal? Where is this coming from?" So I thought I might be getting dramatic about it.
I'm not proud of it but instead, I got mad and retaliated the way I did.
We have no biological kids -- I'm the (stepmom? half mom?) of his six-year-old son from an accidental pregnancy. He has never been married either before me. (Not like any of that matters.)



GuyInColorado said:


> One year? No kids? Throw in the towel. You want to spend the rest of your life like this?
> 
> You should have demanded he log into his email right then and there, or you're gone.
> 
> Jeesh. What a mess. Just end the misery.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Trying to hit him is not ok. Ever.

Him refusing to let you leave is also abusive and not ok.

Ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

westcoast11 said:


> But he kept getting in my face to ask where my attitude/distant mood was now coming from. I simply asked him to let me leave and he *wouldn*'t.


Did he block you physically?



> So instead I just felt a surge of anger and old hurt feelings came back; I yelled out that he's obviously hiding something from me and I'm not that stupid. I tried to leave AGAIN, but then *he grabbed my wrists* so I attempted to slap him. Ensue rest of my post. Thoughts?
> ---


Physically restraining you is not good. Hitting him is not good either. I would recommend MC for both of you, honestly.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Yep to lifeistooshort's post. He has absolutely no right to keep you from going anywhere. This man is not safe for you. This man is not safe with you, either. A serious conversation between you two to set some boundaries is needed and the sooner the better.

FWIW, his request for the e-mail roundabout is sketchy.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

westcoast11 said:


> I did, and he wouldn't, he kept saying "Why is this a big deal? Where is this coming from?" So I thought I might be getting dramatic about it.
> I'm not proud of it but instead, I got mad and retaliated the way I did.
> We have no biological kids -- I'm the (stepmom? half mom?) of his six-year-old son from an accidental pregnancy. He has never been married either before me. *(Not like any of that matters.)*


It all matters. The events of our lives and of those close to us...create the world we live in....create the shared perceptions of your marriage, your family...etc..

You might want to consider that him deflecting the request...was really the trigger. He knows where it was coming from. You will need to be able to calmly (CALMLY) tell him about things that trigger you. Your reaction has changed the dynamic...it's no longer about transparent access to his accounts...it's about your anger. See how that happened? 

You will need to apologize for your actions. Sincerely apologize for your actions. Don't excuse or minimize them in any way. BUT....your demand for access remains and will need to be addressed. He will do it or he won't. You WILL have to make a decision about that. Make sure you have decided....in advance what your response will be.


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## westcoast11 (Aug 11, 2016)

Original incident was dealt with me telling him to leave me alone. I didn't talk to him for two weeks. After those two weeks, we eventually reconciled and I decided to move forward.

Passwords for all devices/accounts: We have each other's phone passcodes but we've reached a level of trust where we don't check them routinely anymore. We don't have any other passwords beyond that. For my side, I'm not hiding anything and wouldn't have a problem with him having my passwords, but I've experienced him getting jealous/angry over many things in the past that he has read into, so the concept sort of worries me. (e.g. a guy family friend I've known since high school recently moved to our area and messaged me to meet up/catch up with my group of friends -- this was NOT OK with my husband and he basically made up in his head that this guy was a former flame of mine, and demanded I stop talking to him). So my past experiences with his alleged jealousy is prob why we (or I specifically) haven't pushed it, didn't seem necessary when we seemed to have been working through our probs.

I do think that the trigger is what led to this unfortunate scenario. I understand that I need to be in control of my feelings but I'm not superhuman. I literally asked him to let me leave like 4x so I could cool off/sleep elsewhere and he physically guarded the door.



MarriedDude said:


> Thats called a "Trigger"...something real or imagined or assumed, etc....that returns...in a rush...all of the feelings that were present when you were dealing with the infidelity.
> 
> They tend to reduce over time (sometimes a long time). How was the original incident dealt with?
> 
> Do you both have each others passwords for all devices/accounts? Why not?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Yep to lifeistooshort's post. He has absolutely no right to keep you from going anywhere. This man is not safe for you. This man is not safe with you, either. A serious conversation between you two to set some boundaries is needed and the sooner the better.
> 
> FWIW, his request for the e-mail roundabout is sketchy.


And his following you around, OP, to ensure it is "not a big deal" is to distract you from the fact that it IS a big deal. Betcha a buck.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

westcoast11 said:


> Original incident was dealt with me telling him to leave me alone. I didn't talk to him for two weeks. After those two weeks, we eventually reconciled and I decided to move forward.
> 
> Passwords for all devices/accounts: We have each other's phone passcodes *but we've reached a level of trust* where we don't check them routinely anymore. We don't have any other passwords beyond that. For my side, I'm not hiding anything and wouldn't have a problem with him having my passwords, but I've experienced him getting jealous/angry over many things in the past that he has read into, so the concept sort of worries me. (e.g. a guy family friend I've known since high school recently moved to our area and messaged me to meet up/catch up with my group of friends -- this was NOT OK with my husband and he basically made up in his head that this guy was a former flame of mine, and demanded I stop talking to him). So my past experiences with his alleged jealousy is prob why we (or I specifically) haven't pushed it, didn't seem necessary *when we seemed to have been working through our probs.*
> 
> I do think that the trigger is what led to this unfortunate scenario. I understand that I need to be in control of my feelings but I'm not superhuman. I literally asked him to let me leave like 4x so I could cool off/sleep elsewhere and he physically guarded the door.


It kinda sounds more like a stalemate than a level of trust. 

Did you stop talking to the old family friend?


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> And his following you around, OP, to ensure it is "not a big deal" is to distract you from the fact that it IS a big deal. Betcha a buck.


i would bet like....SUPER huge that it is a VERY big deal. 

Hell....I'd even give odds


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## westcoast11 (Aug 11, 2016)

I did stop talking to the old family friend, completely stopped responding to his texts, FB messages, everything (which is just really weird if you know me in person -- I don't just ghost like that. I like to consider myself a good friend.)

Ironically, this family friend was invited to my best friend's moving away party just this past weekend so that was our first time communicating in over a year. Very awkward and I felt bad for not explaining at all why I dropped off the face of the earth. He met my husband and thought he was a nice dude.



MarriedDude said:


> It kinda sounds more like a stalemate than a level of trust.
> 
> Did you stop talking to the old family friend?


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

westcoast11 said:


> I did stop talking to the old family friend, completely stopped responding to his texts, FB messages, everything (which is just really weird if you know me in person -- I don't just ghost like that. I like to consider myself a good friend.)
> 
> Ironically, this family friend was invited to my best friend's moving away party just this past weekend so that was our first time communicating in over a year. Very awkward and I felt bad for not explaining at all why I dropped off the face of the earth. He met my husband and thought he was a nice dude.


A good friend would totally understand. I am friendly with my HS girlfriend....I really like her husband...truthfully...talk to him WAY more than her (he's more interesting). My wife didn't like it when it started like 15+ years ago -So I told her (old GF) about it. She was very sorry and let it be- apologized to my wife. BUT, always sent christmas cards to our family, sent gifts to her last baby shower, etc...eventually, it worked itself out, once they met -my wife's concerns pretty much vanished. 

Transparency, Honesty, Integrity...all build trust over time. But it does take time.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

westcoast11 said:


> Original incident was dealt with me telling him to leave me alone. I didn't talk to him for two weeks. After those two weeks, we eventually reconciled and I decided to move forward.
> 
> Passwords for all devices/accounts: We have each other's phone passcodes but we've reached a level of trust where we don't check them routinely anymore. We don't have any other passwords beyond that. For my side, I'm not hiding anything and wouldn't have a problem with him having my passwords, but I've experienced him getting jealous/angry


Eeeek. It keeps getting better and better. </sarcasm>. Jealous anger is a very common abuse indicator.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Poor slug. He was all set to gaslight her but when it didn't go according to plan he tried to bully his way out of it. Moral of the story: when you ask your spouse to help you with an e-mail, don't leave incriminating evidence on the computer. Moron.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Poor slug. *He was all set to gaslight her *but when it didn't go according to plan he tried to bully his way out of it. Moral of the story: when you ask your spouse to help you with an e-mail, don't leave incriminating evidence on the computer. Moron.


IDK...He didn't even have to really gaslight her (though I'm sure it was headed that way)...Her going at him...changed the whole dynamic for him. 

She now needs to address her end -but- her questions remain. Once she apologizes and he accepts it.....SHe goes right back to the email account....but with an all new focus and calm.


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## zzzman99 (Oct 23, 2015)

westcoast11 said:


> not looking for sarcasm or criticism - this was a genuine question of mine.


You got what you deserved. I can't believe your letter. How can you have the audacity to put the complete blame on him.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Turn yourself into jail.

Shame on women who hit their husbands. Disgusting.
You only do it because you think he won't hit you back. Or you think you can guilt him or take advantage of people's feelings for women.

Shame!


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## westcoast11 (Aug 11, 2016)

wow, you couldn't be more wrong. If I was trying to "guilt" him or take advantage of others' feelings, why would I bother asking others for their opinions to help me see different perspectives? You clearly didn't read my entire thread and subsequent add-ons.

Look yourself in the mirror for being so quick to judge, if I'm so "disgusting." Shame on yourself for sitting all high and mighty on your computer chair as if your marriage is perfect.



nirvana said:


> Turn yourself into jail.
> 
> Shame on women who hit their husbands. Disgusting.
> You only do it because you think he won't hit you back. Or you think you can guilt him or take advantage of people's feelings for women.
> ...


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## westcoast11 (Aug 11, 2016)

I didn't put "complete blame on him" -- that's the whole reason for this post to get others' opinions on how to navigate this?

Am I missing something? And also did you even read my whole forum / subsequent add-ons in response to others' questions?

And wow. If you feel anyone deserves to be shoved/end up with hand scrapes, regardless of the scenario, I don't know what to tell you. That's harsh and I hope no one ever wishes the same on you. 



zzzman99 said:


> You got what you deserved. I can't believe your letter. How can you have the audacity to put the complete blame on him.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

westcoast11 said:


> I didn't put "complete blame on him" -- that's the whole reason for this post to get others' opinions on how to navigate this?
> 
> Am I missing something? And also did you even read my whole forum / subsequent add-ons in response to others' questions?
> 
> And wow. If you feel anyone deserves to be shoved/end up with hand scrapes, regardless of the scenario, I don't know what to tell you. That's harsh and I hope no one ever wishes the same on you.


Recognize that you did leave important details of the story out.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It sounds like he was the first person to initiate the laying on of hands, with his grabbing your wrists. His unwillingness to permit your free movement might also be considered domestic violence. 

A poster here said once that his wife called the police on him for blocking her ability to leave the room. The police did come to his home for that.

Your trying to slap him could be considered self-defense, a way to gain your free movement.

Things escalated from there, and will likely escalate again.

It might be worth reporting this, just to have a record in case you need a restraining order against him at some point in the future.

I strongly recommend divorcing him.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

nirvana said:


> Turn yourself into jail.
> 
> Shame on women who hit their husbands. Disgusting.
> You only do it because you think he won't hit you back. Or you think you can guilt him or take advantage of people's feelings for women.
> ...


So this is what your wife should do?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

jld said:


> So this is what your wife should do?


Nirvana controls his wife's movement with physicality?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Nirvana controls his wife's movement with physicality?


Not sure. Nirvana?

He said she has pinched and bit him. He was discussing it in his thread.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You are lucky all he did was shove you. 

You have bought into the Xena Warrior Princess Fallacy: that women are as physically tough as men. Well, newsflash....you are not Linda Hamilton. 

Some women are very tough and have taken fight training or martial arts, but 90% of the time most women try that sh!t, piss off the wrong guy and end up looking like potato salad. 

Why oh why is this stupid grrrrl power myth perpetuated? It is going to get a lot of women hurt.

Stay away from your husband until you get yourself into anger management therapy. It sounds like you both need a lot of counseling and work.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> You are lucky all he did was shove you.
> 
> You have bought into the Xena Warrior Princess Fallacy: that women are as physically tough as men. Well, newsflash....you are not Linda Hamilton.
> 
> ...


Bandit, what would you have recommended she do when he grabbed her wrists and would not let her leave the house?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

jld said:


> Bandit, what would you have recommended she do when he grabbed her wrists and would not let her leave the house?


Stop struggling, calm down, and ask him calmly to release her. 

She admitted to taking a swing at him first. I would have done the same thing he did.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Stop struggling, calm down, and ask him calmly to release her.
> 
> She admitted to taking a swing at him first. I would have done the same thing he did.


And if he had not released her?

Remember, he had grabbed her wrists. That was the first laying on of hands.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

jld said:


> And if he had not released her?
> 
> Remember, he had grabbed her wrists. That was the first laying on of hands.


Now....why would he just grab her wrists for no reason? Does your husband just walk up to you, out of the blue, and grab your wrists?

That doesn't make sense jld. 

He grabbed her wrists to restrain her from hitting him.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

No man should just stand there and let a woman wail on him. No. uh uh.....

I would restrain a woman, and if she kept on, I'd clock her hard to get her away from me. I don't care what sex you are, I'm not going to stand there and let myself be assaulted.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Stop struggling, calm down, and ask him calmly to release her.
> 
> She admitted to taking a swing at him first. I would have done the same thing he did.


You would have physically preventing her from leaving the situation in order to calm down? When she further attempted to leave a volatile situation, you would have restrained her wrists such that she could not? I am not saying that trying to hit someone bigger than you is smart. But it is understandable under the circumstances.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Now....why would he just grab her wrists for no reason? Does your husband just walk up to you, out of the blue, and grab your wrists?
> 
> That doesn't make sense jld.
> 
> He grabbed her wrists to restrain her from hitting him.


Oh for f sake. Read the thread.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Some of the guys on this attached video are douche-bags, but this disturbing vid proves one salient point: ladies, never, ever pick a physical fight with a guy. 

It just rarely ever works out. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiXA9SOzE3Y


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## Luvher4life (Jan 15, 2016)

I think what the OP is saying is that she got mad at him for not accessing his e-mail. An argument pursued, things got heated enough that she just wanted to leave, yet he wouldn't allow her to. I envision him following her around, all the while arguing, and she had enough and felt like she needed to go somewhere, anywhere, just to cool off. He wasn't going to let her just walk away, so he blocked the door, grabbed her wrists, etc. Then, it escalated into the actual physical altercation.

Both of them were wrong, and neither is more to blame than the other, in my opinion. I like MarriedDude's approach to this situation, in that she needs to keep her cool and approach him with what really triggered her to get angered in the first place. There's definitely a lot of jealousy and distrust in this relationship whether justified or not.

They need to make sure they can actually sit down and communicate without judging each other. Talk about their triggers, how to avoid them, and learn to walk away when angered to the point of these heated engagements. If this relationship is to weather these issues that keep arising, and lasting trust is to be built, they definitely need to treat each other better. Complete transparency is just a start, but it has to be continuous and in effect anytime a trust issue arises.

Above all else, they both need to learn how to control their temper or this relationship will end, and could very well end up very badly.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

westcoast11 said:


> Thank you for your constructive response. This is kinda wordy but here goes nothing: He asked me to help him write a thank you email to job interviewers he met with today, so when we got home I asked him to log into his gmail so I could help him write it so that all he had to do was hit 'send.' I opened up the gmail login screen for him, but he asked me if I could log into mine instead, write the email from my gmail, then just send to him to send later....which would create 3 extra unnecessary steps in my mind, and just seemed weird. So I started asking him why he didn't just want to log into his gmail directly? (We've had mistrust issues before where I caught him sexting with another girl before we were married, like a couple years ago). *I thought this was all too fishy, I felt myself getting angry and tried walking away because I didn't want to start yelling. But he kept getting in my face to ask where my attitude/distant mood was now coming from. I simply asked him to let me leave and he wouldn't. So instead I just felt a surge of anger and old hurt feelings came back; I yelled out that he's obviously hiding something from me and I'm not that stupid. I tried to leave AGAIN, but then he grabbed my wrists so I attempted to slap him.* Ensue rest of my post. Thoughts?
> ---


Getting in her face, her asking him to let her leave, his refusing, her trying to leave again, his grabbing her wrists. All that preceded her trying to slap him.

I think a judge would be interested in the lead up to the attempted slap, OP.

And if you look up "grabbing wrists domestic violence," you will realize you are not the first woman this has happened to.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I definitely think one is more to blame than the other. She hit him in self defense, trying to gain freedom of movement.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You're with an abuser, OP. You need to get away from him.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Okay then jld.....

Knee to the balls, or forehead to the bridge of the nose. There, that is how you get someone to release you. Then run like hell.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

jld said:


> You're with an abuser, OP. You need to get away from him.


And he needs to get away from her. They are both toxic.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Okay then jld.....
> 
> Knee to the balls, or forehead to the bridge of the nose. There, that is how you get someone to release you. Then run like hell.


Sounds risky. Any physical confrontation of a man sounds risky.

Thing is, bandit, what if she had not tried anything? What if he had decided to tie her up and do who knows what to her?

I understand her (feeble) attempt to escape.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> And he needs to get away from her. They are both toxic.


Her presence is not bringing out the best in him, that is for sure.

But I think he is a threat to her. I don't think she is to him.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

If you aren't prepared to take a punch, you probably shouldn't be the first to throw one.

Add me to the ever growing list of those who agree that you're guilty of domestic violence, whether you want to hear it or not.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

jld said:


> Her presence is not bringing out the best in him, that is for sure.
> 
> But I think he is a threat to her. I don't think she is to him.


Then...

She...

Needs...

To...

Leave...

Himmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cletus said:


> If you aren't prepared to take a punch, you probably shouldn't be the first to throw one.
> 
> Add me to the list of those who agree that you're guilty of domestic violence, whether you want to hear it or not.


Did you read the whole account?

He grabbed her wrists and would not let her leave. It was only then that she tried to escape by trying to slap him.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Then...
> 
> She...
> 
> ...


I have already said that a few times myself.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Okay then jld.....
> 
> Knee to the balls,


Bad, bad advice. As much as you boys love your toys, actually disabling him is not all that likely with this.


> or forehead to the bridge of the nose.


Still dumb but slightly less dumb.


> There, that is how you get someone to release you. Then run like hell.


Better yet, pick up the phone and call 911. But all of this is sort of mute (nod to the grammar thread, I do know the word is moot). She was in the heat of an emotional state induced by a triggering event. So sanity and calm reason may not have been accessible to her at that time.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Bad, bad advice. As much as you boys love your toys, actually disabling him is not all that likely with this.
> 
> Still dumb but slightly less dumb.
> 
> Better yet, pick up the phone and call 911. But all of this is sort of mute (nod to the grammar thread, I do know the word is moot). She was in the heat of an emotional state induced by a triggering event. So sanity and calm reason may not have been accessible to her at that time.


He had grabbed her wrists and would not let her move. How was she going to call the police?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

jld said:


> Did you read the whole account?
> 
> He grabbed her wrists and would not let her leave. It was only then that she tried to escape by trying to slap him.


Yes. I'm still trying to work my head around how one needs to block a slap when one already has control of the arms by the wrist.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Yes. I'm still trying to work my head around how one needs to block a slap when one already has control of the arms by the wrist.


OP? Can you address this?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

jld said:


> Her presence is not bringing out the best in him, that is for sure.
> 
> But I think he is a threat to her. I don't think she is to him.


Sodium is a useful metal that we all require to survive. 

Water is a pleasant compound of hydrogen and oxygen that we all need to survive. 

Apart these two compounds are important, contributing members of life. We like them. We need them. 

But put them together? KABOOM. Not good. 

Now ...add chloride to the sodium? Then water and sodium get along splendidly. Fish love them together. 

These two either need to stay the hell away from each other, or find their chloride.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

jld said:


> He had grabbed her wrists and would not let her move. How was she going to call the police?


Fair enough. Still the ball shot is a bad piece of advice given that it works poorly most of the time. Any decent self defense trainer will tell you this. If you want to get away from the bear, you don't piss it off and engender an epic beating.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Blocking her exit all by itself was the first act of domestic violence.

Not sure why you guys are defending this guy, or trying to make them equal.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Fair enough. Still the ball shot is a bad piece of advice given that it works poorly most of the time. Any decent self defense trainer will tell you this. If you want to get away from the bear, you don't piss it off and engender an epic beating.


I said as much in my response to him.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

westcoast11 said:


> Hi all, this is my first post in this community so I appreciate any time you take to help me with this.
> 
> *Last night, my husband and I got into a heated argument, and I attempted to slap him, but his arms caught mine. In retaliation, I tried to throw a punch to his shoulder/general facial area but he caught that too,* then shoved me quite hard. I lost my balance and fell backward near a nightstand, and ended up with scratch cuts on my hands. I forced him to let me leave the house (he kept refusing my pleas to leave, so I threatened to rip up our marriage license to show him I was serious about needing space -- the terrible thing is, I meant it) then I spent the night in a hotel. We haven't contacted each other since.
> 
> ...


I have highlighted three parts of your post.

Two in which you admit to using or attempting to use physical violence against your husband.

The third highlighted extract is where you deny you have ever gotten physical with him.

Yeah, you have. Because you just admitted to two incidents right there!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Sodium is a useful metal that we all require to survive.
> 
> Water is a pleasant compound of hydrogen and oxygen that we all need to survive.
> 
> ...


She needs to leave. He is an abuser. And it is likely he will do it again.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jld said:


> Blocking her exit all by itself was the first act of domestic violence.
> 
> Not sure why you guys are defending this guy, or trying to make them equal.


Not if it did not involve physical restraint?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Not if it did not involve physical restraint?


From the list I saw, it does not need to involve his actually touching her. Simply blocking her exit is enough to qualify as domestic violence.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jld said:


> She needs to leave. He is an abuser. And it is likely he will do it again.





> My husband is a normally calm and patient man


Yep. His abusive nature just flies off the screen there...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> > [My husband is a normally calm and patient man,/QUOTE]
> >
> > Yep. His abusive nature just flies off the screen there...
> 
> ...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jld said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> > He can tell it to the judge. Preventing her exit and grabbing her wrists clearly qualifies as domestic violence.
> ...


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

jld said:


> From the list I saw, it does not need to involve his actually touching her. Simply blocking her exit is enough to qualify as domestic violence.




Blocking her escape would be grounds for a DV arrest although a conviction might be harder to get. Often the charge will be reduced to something less to which the accused will plead guilty. Even then the accused might not get jail time or be sentenced to time already served. There are many variables. 

If she hit him or tried to slap him in some jurisdictions both will be arrested and it will be left for the judge to sort out. If she slapped him she is definitely going to jail and deserves to go. 

They BOTH will go to jail. Both.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> jld said:
> 
> 
> > @jld, you are an advocate for the rights of women to physically attack their husbands and that if the husband attempts to defend himself that he should, how did you put it? Ah, yes! "Tell it to the judge."
> ...


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> jld said:
> 
> 
> > @jld, you are an advocate for the rights of women to physically attack their husbands and that if the husband attempts to defend himself that he should, how did you put it? Ah, yes! "Tell it to the judge."
> ...


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Double post. Bring back the darn delete function.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> I would agree with @jld on this. Blocking her escape would be grounds for a DV arrest although a conviction might be harder to get. Often the charge will be reduced to something less to which the accused will plead guilty. Even then the accused might not get jail time or be sentenced to time already served. There are many variables.
> 
> If she hit him or tried to slap him in some jurisdictions both will be arrested and it will be left for the judge to sort out.


His aggression would be on his record, though. Her self-defense would be on hers.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sokillme said:


> This post is embarrassing. OP says herself she tried to hit him out of anger never once was self-defense talked about.
> 
> The moderators of Talk About Marriage should be ashamed to let this person post on here. (And I know I am not the first to complain about it!)
> 
> ...


I used her own text. There is no misandry here.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> I would agree with @jld on this. Blocking her escape would be grounds for a DV arrest although a conviction might be harder to get. Often the charge will be reduced to something less to which the accused will plead guilty. Even then the accused might not get jail time or be sentenced to time already served. There are many variables.
> 
> If she hit him in some jurisdictions both will be arrested and it will be left for the judge to sort out.


What if he only hid the door key?

Or lay pressed up against the door, sobbing?

It's possible to invent all sorts of imaginary things he could have done, including nailing her feel to the floor, but we just do not know what happened.

Apart from the physical assaults (yes, there were two) of the wife and defensive moves of the husband we know nothing of what actually transpired after her violent outbursts.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jld said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> > Where have I advocated for women to physically attack their husbands?
> ...


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> What if he only hid the door key?
> 
> Or lay pressed up against the door, sobbing?
> 
> ...


I think if the caller feels threatened, the police are obliged to come.

The man here who posted that his wife called the police because he had blocked her exit said that his wife felt threatened. That is what prompted her call.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sokillme said:


> You completely ignored the point that he didn't grab he wrist he caught them when she was striking at him. It was even pointed out to you in another post. OP wrote it herself, never denied it.
> 
> Mods I am looking at you! Why is this continually allowed? Again I know I am not the first to complain here. People have left the board because of it.


Look at the bolded, sokillme. She is clear that he grabbed her wrists to prevent her leaving _before_ she attempted to slap him:



westcoast11 said:


> Thank you for your constructive response. This is kinda wordy but here goes nothing: He asked me to help him write a thank you email to job interviewers he met with today, so when we got home I asked him to log into his gmail so I could help him write it so that all he had to do was hit 'send.' I opened up the gmail login screen for him, but he asked me if I could log into mine instead, write the email from my gmail, then just send to him to send later....which would create 3 extra unnecessary steps in my mind, and just seemed weird. So I started asking him why he didn't just want to log into his gmail directly? (We've had mistrust issues before where I caught him sexting with another girl before we were married, like a couple years ago). I thought this was all too fishy, I felt myself getting angry and tried walking away because I didn't want to start yelling. But he kept getting in my face to ask where my attitude/distant mood was now coming from. I simply asked him to let me leave and he wouldn't. So instead I just felt a surge of anger and old hurt feelings came back; I yelled out that he's obviously hiding something from me and I'm not that stupid. *I tried to leave AGAIN, but then he grabbed my wrists so I attempted to slap him. *Ensue rest of my post. Thoughts?
> ---


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jld said:


> I think if the caller feels threatened, the police are obliged to come.
> 
> The man here who posted that his wife called the police because he had blocked her exit said that his wife felt threatened. That is what prompted her call.


What man? The man who was attacked in this thread?

Or some random other man who has no relationship with or relevance to this thread?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Nope. Just reading what you wrote.


Nope. I have never advocated that women strike their husbands.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> What man? The man who was attacked in this thread?
> 
> Or some random other man who has no relationship with or relevance to this thread?


The man who posted this on TAM. OP's husband is not here, so it is obviously not him.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

jld said:


> Look at the bolded, sokillme. She is clear that he grabbed her wrists to prevent her leaving _before_ she attempted to slap him:


I get it your a "forum supporter" so they probably can't ban you. Watch them ban me now again.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I get it your a "forum supporter" so they probably can't ban you. Watch them ban me now again.


Anyone can be banned.

There are going to be different opinions on a message board, sokillme. It is not a reason for banning anyone.

OP asked for everyone's thoughts, and she is getting them.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jld said:


> The man who posted this on TAM. OP's husband is not here, so it is obviously not him.



Oh. So it was a pointless threadjack?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

jld said:


> It sounds like he was the first person to initiate the laying on of hands, with his grabbing your wrists. His unwillingness to permit your free movement might also be considered domestic violence.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Did we read the same initial post? Because you must have read something different or just are ignoring what the OP said to fit your agenda. She admitted to the first slap and punch, even if blocked. That is DV and she is off to jail. If he blocked her exit, he goes to. Everything else is useless debate even the police won't listen to. The judge will decide after both spend at least a night in jail. 

BTW this thread seems familiar.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Oh. So it was a pointless threadjack?


I was explaining the reason why his wife called the police. Her exit was blocked just like the OP's.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> Did we read the same initial post? Because you must have read something different or just are ignoring what the OP said to fit your agenda. She admitted to the first slap and punch, even if blocked. That is DV and she is off to jail. If he blocked her exit, he goes to. Everything else is useless debate even the police won't listen to. The judge will decide after both spend at least a night in jail.
> 
> BTW this thread seems familiar.


:iagree:

PS Maybe she was drunk and he was trying to stop her driving off in a drunken rage?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

jld said:


> Sounds risky. Any physical confrontation of a man sounds risky.
> 
> Thing is, bandit, what if she had not tried anything? What if he had decided to tie her up and do who knows what to her?
> 
> I understand her (feeble) attempt to escape.




The legal system responds to actions not conjecture. Speculate all you want. She initiated battery. Him blocking her was assault. Him grabbing her hands was battery.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

So let's assume that this isn't the first time she's tried to slap him. 

I too would be in the habit of restraining someone who was prone to take a swing at me, especially when I can see it coming. Call it DV if you like. I call it smart.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

@blueinbr



westcoast11 said:


> Thank you for your constructive response. This is kinda wordy but here goes nothing: He asked me to help him write a thank you email to job interviewers he met with today, so when we got home I asked him to log into his gmail so I could help him write it so that all he had to do was hit 'send.' I opened up the gmail login screen for him, but he asked me if I could log into mine instead, write the email from my gmail, then just send to him to send later....which would create 3 extra unnecessary steps in my mind, and just seemed weird. So I started asking him why he didn't just want to log into his gmail directly? (We've had mistrust issues before where I caught him sexting with another girl before we were married, like a couple years ago). *I thought this was all too fishy, I felt myself getting angry and tried walking away because I didn't want to start yelling. But he kept getting in my face to ask where my attitude/distant mood was now coming from. I simply asked him to let me leave and he wouldn't. So instead I just felt a surge of anger and old hurt feelings came back; I yelled out that he's obviously hiding something from me and I'm not that stupid. I tried to leave AGAIN, but then he grabbed my wrists so I attempted to slap him. *Ensue rest of my post. Thoughts?
> ---


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jld said:


> I was explaining the reason why his wife called the police. Her exit was blocked just like the OP's.


But that didn't happen in this case so it is of no relevance.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> :iagree:
> 
> PS Maybe she was drunk and he was trying to stop her driving off in a drunken rage?


OP? Comment?


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cletus said:


> So let's assume that this isn't the first time she's tried to slap him.
> 
> I too would be in the habit of restraining someone who was prone to take a swing at me, especially when I can see it coming. Call it DV if you like. I call it smart.


She was trying to leave. If he had let her, there would have been no slap. 

Gentlemen, are you reading all of her posts? I have reposted and highlighted the lead up to the attempted slap several times now.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Cletus said:


> So let's assume that this isn't the first time she's tried to slap him.
> 
> 
> 
> I too would be in the habit of restraining someone who was prone to take a swing at me, especially when I can see it coming. Call it DV if you like. I call it smart.




Yes the judge will sort it out taking into consideration prior arrests or convictions. But many jurisdictions have zero tolerance. Both go to jail. That is the arrest. It does not mean conviction and does not mean right or wrong.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> But that didn't happen in this case so it is of no relevance.


The blocking of the exit is exactly what happened.

Did you read the highlighted post?


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> :iagree:
> 
> PS Maybe she was drunk and he was trying to stop her driving off in a drunken rage?




That is when you call 999 or 202 or whatever you do in UK. If you physically stop here you can end up in jail. Hiding the keys or sleeping in front of the door works too. Btdt.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I am saying ban her because she is a misandrist. Would they allow a racist on the board or is only Men who are allowed to be talked about like this? If every post by a woman had a male poster on here saying and I will paraphrase "Well you are a girl so what can you expect, you really must be your fault some way.", "Dr Kavorkian says in his research that a man is to dumb and can only follow a woman's lead so it is really the woman's fault." Would it be allowed? Would it!? Would anyone be happy about it?
> 
> This is just a blatant double standard and it is an embarrassment. It chases people who need help away from the topic at hand.
> 
> ...


OP, in response to your question, Yes, I think he could be arrested on grounds of domestic violence. I have pointed out why.

It is also possible you could be charged along with him. Depends on the court, I guess.

This is why you must leave him. Those domestic violence sites said that abusers use their power to control their victims. You cannot compete with his strength. He has, and will likely continue to feel able, to impede your movement and physically aggress you. 

I really think leaving him is your safest option.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> That is when you call 999 or 202 or whatever you do in UK. If you physically stop here you can end up in jail. Hiding the keys or sleeping in front of the door works too. Btdt.


Again, he would not let her leave and he had grabbed her wrists. How was she going to call 911?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

jld said:


> OP, in response to your question, Yes, I think he could be arrested on grounds of domestic violence. I have pointed out why.
> 
> It is also possible you could be charged along with him. Depends on the court, I guess.
> 
> ...



:slap: I give up.....


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jld said:


> Again, he would not let her leave and he had grabbed her wrists. How was she going to call 911?


Because if he was holding her wrists all the time, *how was she able to get a hold of their marriage certificate and threaten to rip it to pieces?* :scratchhead:

Funny, that...


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

She slapped him prior or tried to slap him. She has anger issues. 

I am not lawyer but seems to me we are arguing both assault and battery issues. Assault does not even need to be physical. 

Keep in mind if a wife beater hits her and she hits back she can go to jail too. It does not mean she gets convicted. And i am not saying he is a wife beater. 

We can debate who is right or wrong here. And we can debate the law. They might not agree.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@westcoast11, 

The answer to your question is simple. The legal definition of "assault" can be summarized as "a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm." Assault is a crime and note that it does not differentiate between genders. Thus, if a female person threatens to punch, slap or hit their male live-in significant other.... OR .... if a female person actually throws the punch, slaps the face or hits the male person.... it would be exactly the same as if the male person did that to her. EXACTLY THE SAME.

However, in our current society right now, there is a gigantic bias against men such that men are nearly always seen as "the perpetrator" of domestic violence, and women are nearly always portraited as "the victim." If a male human being is punched and gets a bruise he is JUST AS MUCH a victim of domestic violence as a female human being would be. If a female person does the punching, she is just a guilty of a criminal act as a male person would be. 

For reference please look at your own state's laws on assault and battery: State Assault and Battery Laws - FindLaw 

For the legal definition of assault, you can look here:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assault
Assault legal definition of assault
Assault and Battery Overview - FindLaw

In conclusion, it is my personal opinion that all this bickering back and forth does the OP any good. Please speak to the OP and their topic, not to "each other" (SMH)


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

westcoast11 said:


> I did, and he wouldn't, he kept saying "Why is this a big deal? Where is this coming from?" So I thought I might be getting dramatic about it.
> I'm not proud of it but instead, I got mad and retaliated the way I did.
> We have no biological kids -- I'm the (stepmom? half mom?) of his six-year-old son from an accidental pregnancy. He has never been married either before me. (Not like any of that matters.)


Now, I am prolly going to get a lot of slack for saying this, but I spent the last 5-6 months in a domestic violence shelter and in the course of that had to read copious amount of literature and books on the subject. Yes, it is a trigger, BUT, it was a trigger based on a real event. This is something that HE DID in the past, so red flag, he is up to no good. SO you tried to slap him while he attempted to detain you, HIS DETAINING YOU was the first domestic violence issue, at no time can someone grab your wrist and detain you. 

Now, most people think that domestic violence is one sided, I will tell you, the vast majority of the time it isn't. One person grabs, the other person hits, the first person shoves...and so on. You need to get yourself out of this marriage asap. PLEASE. If it is escalating like this NOW, it will get much worse when you have kids together or when any other fight comes up. Please listen, go to a shelter and get the help that you need. I am glad that I did.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"I am saying ban her because she is a misandrist."

She is no such thing. Any more than you are a misogynist. jld will almost always take the woman's side and it isn't because she hates men. It's because she views women as weak and in need of protection, in my opinion. She will probably contest my opinion but it is only that - an opinion.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

OP...

I hope you come back. The hitting, anger, restraint, all of them...are symptoms of the problem. IMO...its about trust, transparency and just simple respect...you both handled it very wrong this time, but with effort, you and your husband can fix it. This is but 1 moment, 1 interaction out of thousands you have every week, everyday. 

You need to keep in mind, that cornering or otherwise attempting a physical altercation with a grown man is dangerous. Regardless of who started what....if you feel at risk...you call for help..dont mess around with this. You have one life as does he. 

As to restraining you...bad idea...ive been slapped...yeah it stings..ive been chased by angry thai club girls...all i could do was run my a $$ down the road...but i wasnt about to take a swing...just not my nature...how in the hell could i tell my commander or anyone that i was defending myself against an 80 pound girl....i mean...seriously???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Not if it did not involve physical restraint?


Getting in someone's face is considered domestic violence. 


"I believe that getting in someones face meets the 3 prongs of assault under fl law.
For the following reasons: Coming toward someone aggressively is an act that threatens violence, there is an ability to do violence when you are up close to a person and someone getting in your face is usually followed by them using some type of force toward you."

Someone getting in your face

Disproportionate Abuse:

"Does your spouse react with a violent rage to the slightest upset? If your spouse’s reactions to events are exaggerated then you are living with abuse that is disproportionate to the imaged offense. In a situation like this, it does not matter how gently you try to communicate an issue with your spouse, they will respond with a temper tantrum. Your abuser will get your attention and cause intimidation when they react by throwing things, slamming doors, getting in your face or screaming and yelling."

Domestic Abuse Types and Signs


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## Kitty08 (Nov 27, 2015)

If you are engaged please break it off.

Once you raise a hand on your partner and/or viceversa it will continue to happen. It is domestic violence. You two are better off away from each other.

Getting married will be a ticking bomb about to explode as things are just going to keep escalating.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Why do people marry jerks and expect them to magically change after marriage? 

On page one, he was cheating on you before you married him. That should have been the red flag to not marry him. 

Violence is wrong, unless in self defense - and something is really wrong if you can't have a logical calm discussion without getting violent, both of you. Praying that you figure out your next steps. I didn't read the whole thread lol I just read page one. But, that's my advice for now.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

anony2 said:


> Getting in someone's face is considered domestic violence.
> 
> 
> "I believe that getting in someones face meets the 3 prongs of assault under fl law.
> ...


Oh. You have just mirrored the description that westcoast11 gave of herself.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Kitty08 said:


> If you are engaged please break it off.
> 
> Once you raise a hand on your partner and/or viceversa it will continue to happen. It is domestic violence. You two are better off away from each other.
> 
> Getting married will be a ticking bomb about to explode as things are just going to keep escalating.


I think westcoast11 said they'd been married for a year?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Deidre* said:


> Why do people marry jerks and expect them to magically change after marriage?
> 
> On page one, he was cheating on you before you married him. That should have been the red flag to not marry him.
> 
> Violence is wrong, unless in self defense - and something is really wrong if you can't have a logical calm discussion without getting violent, both of you. Praying that you figure out your next steps. I didn't read the whole thread lol I just read page one. But, that's my advice for now.


This is her description of herself and her husband



> My husband is a normally calm and patient man, albeit more exhausting/possessive/intense than my previous partners (Scorpio). I'm normally very happy-go-lucky and have never laid hands on any of my previous partners. I have my flaws, I get angry sometimes and yell...


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

jld said:


> OP, in response to your question, Yes, I think he could be arrested on grounds of domestic violence. I have pointed out why.
> 
> It is also possible you could be charged along with him. Depends on the court, I guess.
> 
> ...


This power does not always mean physical power, it can also mean mental power, emotional power or sexual power. For instance, my husband would constantly have me on edge about other women because he was constantly talking about how other women were screwable, he was up all night on video games talking to other women or watching porn. I later found that he had joined these porn sites that had chat sights on them. Then it went on to him watching porn while the kids were in the room with him. He enjoyed watching me get upset and then called me crazy for being upset. He is still doing this even as we are to be divorced, or at least attempting to, I no longer let him have control over my emotions. 

Also aggression on someone also includes bashing the house all to pieces. I don't know how many holes in the walls that I had to repair, he broke 2-3 guitars, and countless other things. That too is domestic violence. 

Also, the sexual abuse....my husband was purposefully touching me while I was sleeping even though I was going through counseling for being molested. I told him that this was triggering me and he made up some lame excuse that he didnt know that he was doing it, but after I got through counseling for this, he stopped touching me. He was constantly telling me he wanted to go to sex shows, for me to have sex with other men so he could watch and was sending me porn of one type or another. Even though he knew I was not interested in any of this. 

He also laid his general depression on me all the time as if I could some how help him, even though he did not really want help, because he could have been going to counseling, but when he got to counseling, he didnt want to do any of the work or take the anti-depressants like he should have. I was having to take all kinds of medication due to them thinking I had bi-polar because my emotions were everywhere. He was like a vampire, feeding off of all my emotions. Since I have left, I have gone off of all medications and I am not showing any signs of being bi-polar at all. I feel this sense of calm all the time. 

I am not telling you this personally, I am just adding to what you had said.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

westcoast11 said:


> Thank you for your constructive response. This is kinda wordy but here goes nothing: He asked me to help him write a thank you email to job interviewers he met with today, so when we got home I asked him to log into his gmail so I could help him write it so that all he had to do was hit 'send.' I opened up the gmail login screen for him, but he asked me if I could log into mine instead, write the email from my gmail, then just send to him to send later....which would create 3 extra unnecessary steps in my mind, and just seemed weird. So I started asking him why he didn't just want to log into his gmail directly? (We've had mistrust issues before where I caught him sexting with another girl before we were married, like a couple years ago). I thought this was all too fishy, I felt myself getting angry and tried walking away because I didn't want to start yelling. But he kept getting in my face to ask where my attitude/distant mood was now coming from. I simply asked him to let me leave and he wouldn't. So instead I just felt a surge of anger and old hurt feelings came back; I yelled out that he's obviously hiding something from me and I'm not that stupid. I tried to leave AGAIN, but then he grabbed my wrists so I attempted to slap him. Ensue rest of my post. Thoughts?
> ---





MattMatt said:


> This is her description of herself and her husband





MattMatt said:


> Oh. You have just mirrored the description that westcoast11 gave of herself.


No, that is what she said about her husband.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

Also, I see a lot of myself in the first post. I too would take all of the blame til my counselor would sort it all out for me and question everything I said to get WHERE my emotions were coming from. It would often be something like this where he didnt want to get into his email, but wanted me to use mine...leaving me to question why, but when I would question why, he would go on to say I was TRYING to get him to cheat on me or call me names. I too had found out he was sexting other women while we first got together, but not through him telling me this or confessing it to me, but him telling me that he was talking to one of the women and I asked him if I could see it and he told me he had deleted it all. Then I found out that basically everything that came out of his mouth afterwards was a lie. 

Man did I learn to make excuses for him about virtually everything to how he treated me, to how he treated everyone else. Looking back, had I divorced in the first year we were together, I could have sent his butt back home to his mommy and let her sort him out because I spent my life attempting to do just that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

anony2 said:


> No, that is what she said about her husband.


*
And it is a very apt description of her, too.*


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Off topic: do women get preferential treatment regarding violence over men? Is it fair?

The clear answer is a man should never hit a woman because he is much larger than her. Should the same standard hold if it's another man? What if she is 5"8 175 and he is 5"4 145? Does that matter? Is it ok for a dude 6"2 225 to hit that guy but not that girl? That seems sexist to me...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

jld said:


> So this is what your wife should do?


Why not?
Any woman who hits her husband is despicable.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

jld said:


> His aggression would be on his record, though. Her self-defense would be on hers.




When did you find time to get your law degree with all the time you spend here?

Do we have a real lawyers here who can chime in?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

anony2 said:


> Getting in someone's face is considered domestic violence.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Are you a lawyer or do you watch one on TV?

Heck, i am watching Law and Order right now. I will give my ruling on this at the end of the hour.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

It's easy to tell if there's misandry or misogyny going on. Replace the hers with hims and vice versa and see if you still feel the same way.

"She got angry, I wanted to let it go. She grabbed my wrists and kept me from leaving so I tried to hit her. If she hadn't tried to stop me I wouldn't have swung at her."


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

westcoast11 said:


> not looking for sarcasm or criticism - this was a genuine question of mine.


You got some legitimate answers, too.

In every jurisdiction in the United States, your intentional action to physically strike him would classify as attempted assault, and could be Class 1, 2 or 3, depending on jurisdiction. The fact that he blocked you only means yours was an attempt, not that it wasn't a crime. In fact, based in your paragraph #1, you could be found guilty of two charges of same.

If all he did was block you, he would be guilty of nothing. It would be up to a law enforcement officer's judgment whether his "shove" was more than adequate to block you, but since you did get injured, I expect he'd be found guilty of a lower assault charge - because it began as self-defense.

However...no jurisdiction would simply find you guilty and penalize/jail you. Rather, they would remand both of you to court-mandated counseling. In most parts of the US, there's AMEND - Abusive Men Exploring New Directions - and AWEND - for women.

No, the worst thing isn't that you meant tearing up your marriage license (which would have no legal impact), the worst thing is that you took to violence instead of resolving problems. The law will see the violence as the "worst" thing.

Get help.

Good luck.

-another West Coaster


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Cletus said:


> So let's assume that this isn't the first time she's tried to slap him.


We don't have to assume, she admitted this wasn't the first time. 

Here's what she wrote first:


westcoast11 said:


> Hi all, this is my first post in this community so I appreciate any time you take to help me with this.
> 
> Last night, my husband and I got into a heated argument,* and I attempted to slap him, but his arms caught mine. In retaliation, I tried to throw a punch to his shoulder/general facial area but he caught that too, then shoved me quite hard. *I lost my balance and fell backward near a nightstand, and ended up with scratch cuts on my hands. I forced him to let me leave the house (he kept refusing my pleas to leave, so I threatened to rip up our marriage license to show him I was serious about needing space -- the terrible thing is, I meant it) then I spent the night in a hotel. We haven't contacted each other since.
> 
> ...




Kind of interesting how most responses were saying she initiated DV for sure and not so sure with the husband. Why is it interesting to me? She rewrote the story with the blocks and deflections becoming wrist grabs. Suddenly NOW, he is an ogre who grabbed her wrists and wouldn't let her leave the house. Sorry, an abuser isn't going to back off because you threaten to rip up a marriage certificate. 

Kind of funny how some latched onto the new post, as the unadulterated truth, to label a man an abuser.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

DustyDog said:


> You got some legitimate answers, too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks DD. Good you have someone in the know join in.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

westcoast11 said:


> that's not what I said..."can I get him for domestic violence?"
> I've obviously never been in this situation before, so am trying to get some genuine outside insight. I could just as easily play the victim and not try to see the other side at all, which I'm NOT.


You came here for kibbles.

Sorry but we don't feed kibbles to bad kitties.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

jld said:


> She was trying to leave. If he had let her, there would have been no slap.
> 
> Gentlemen, are you reading all of her posts? I have reposted and highlighted the lead up to the attempted slap several times now.


jld, you are reposting her second explanation. The guys have quoted and are referring to her original post where she said that she tried to hit him, then his arms blocked her...and somewhere there was a shove and she hurt her hands, and then he didn't let her leave. It's kind of hard to lay all the blame on him from her first post. 

OP, you changed your story. So it's hard to know if it's even true or which scenario is the correct one. In the first you are the aggressor and in the second explanation you are the victim. 

Consider separation? At the very least, counseling for the both of you. You triggered, handled it poorly.... he may be hiding something, and turned it around on you. What a stupid mess. Y'all need a referee! 

You just do not hit people. And you surely do not hit someone you love. So all that is on you.... you have to figure out how to handle your anger. You say this is new and you don't know where it is coming from..... then get help! 

We are not counselors. We can dissect your post every which way...but you need professional help. Maybe just anger management??


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Now....why would he just grab her wrists for no reason? Does your husband just walk up to you, out of the blue, and grab your wrists?
> 
> That doesn't make sense jld.
> 
> He grabbed her wrists to restrain her from hitting him.


They were having an disagreement. She wanted to leave. He grabbed her wrists to keep her from leaving.

Yea, that's pretty common in some relationships. 

She tried to slap him after he grabbed her wrist.. to get him to let her go.

I've had this done to me plenty of times... had my wrist, neck, arm grabbed in anger to try to get me to no leave when I thought things were getting out of hand.

The difference between me and the OP is that I never slapped or hit back.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> They were having an disagreement. She wanted to leave. He grabbed her wrists to keep her from leaving.
> 
> Yea, that's pretty common in some relationships.
> 
> ...


I tried to hit my husband, he shoved me hard

Is the title of the post. I think you are projecting.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Okay then jld.....
> 
> Knee to the balls, or forehead to the bridge of the nose. There, that is how you get someone to release you. Then run like hell.


So if she had kicked him in the balls, that would be ok?

But since she tried to slap him to get him to release her wrist, she's wrong?

Weird


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Yep. His abusive nature just flies off the screen there...


Matt, in her second (or third post) she said that before she tried to slap him, she tried to leave. He grabbed her wrist and physically prevented her from leaving. That is when she tried to slap him.. to get him to release her and let her leave.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sokillme said:


> I tried to hit my husband, he shoved me hard
> 
> Is the title of the post. I think you are projecting.


I'm not projecting at all. I actually read all of the OP's posts. You see she tells more about the lead up to the incident in another post.

The physical part of it started when she tried to leave, before things went crazy. But he grabbed her by her wrists and restrained her from leaving. It was in response to his restraining her by grabbing her wrists that she tried to slap her.

See my next post.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Unfortunately the OP described the incident in two separate posts. In the first post, her OP, she left of the first part in which the physical altercation started with him grabbing her by the wrists to retrain her so that she could not leave. Here is the info form the two posts, copied below, put in time sequence. The OP confused a lot of people on this thread.




I felt myself getting angry and tried walking away because I didn't want to start yelling. 


But he kept getting in my face to ask where my attitude/distant mood was now coming from. 


I simply asked him to let me leave and he wouldn't. 


So instead I just felt a surge of anger and old hurt feelings came back; I yelled out that he's obviously hiding something from me and I'm not that stupid.


 I tried to leave AGAIN, but then he grabbed my wrists so I attempted to slap him. Ensue rest of my post. Thoughts?


but his arms caught mine. 


In retaliation, I tried to throw a punch to his shoulder/general facial area 


but he caught that too,


 then shoved me quite hard. 


I lost my balance and fell backward near a nightstand, and ended up with scratch cuts on my hands. 


I forced him to let me leave the house (he kept refusing my pleas to leave, so I threatened to rip up our marriage license to show him I was serious about needing space -- the terrible thing is, I meant it) 


then I spent the night in a hotel. We haven't contacted each other since.



westcoast11 said:


> Thank you for your constructive response. This is kinda wordy but here goes nothing: He asked me to help him write a thank you email to job interviewers he met with today, so when we got home I asked him to log into his gmail so I could help him write it so that all he had to do was hit 'send.' I opened up the gmail login screen for him, but he asked me if I could log into mine instead, write the email from my gmail, then just send to him to send later....which would create 3 extra unnecessary steps in my mind, and just seemed weird. So I started asking him why he didn't just want to log into his gmail directly? (We've had mistrust issues before where I caught him sexting with another girl before we were married, like a couple years ago). I thought this was all too fishy, *I felt myself getting angry and tried walking away because I didn't want to start yelling. But he kept getting in my face to ask where my attitude/distant mood was now coming from. I simply asked him to let me leave and he wouldn't. So instead I just felt a surge of anger and old hurt feelings came back; I yelled out that he's obviously hiding something from me and I'm not that stupid. I tried to leave AGAIN, but then he grabbed my wrists so I attempted to slap him. Ensue rest of my post.* Thoughts?
> ---





westcoast11 said:


> Hi all, this is my first post in this community so I appreciate any time you take to help me with this.
> 
> *Last night, my husband and I got into a heated argument, and I attempted to slap him, but his arms caught mine. In retaliation, I tried to throw a punch to his shoulder/general facial area but he caught that too, then shoved me quite hard. I lost my balance and fell backward near a nightstand, and ended up with scratch cuts on my hands. I forced him to let me leave the house (he kept refusing my pleas to leave, so I threatened to rip up our marriage license to show him I was serious about needing space -- the terrible thing is, I meant it) then I spent the night in a hotel. We haven't contacted each other since.*
> 
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nirvana said:


> Why not?
> Any woman who hits her husband is despicable.


And any man who restrains his wife by the wrists so that she cannot leave is despicable.

You seem to have missed the part where this is what started the physical altercation.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Unfortunately the OP described the incident in two separate posts. In the first post, her OP, she left of the first part in which the physical altercation started with him grabbing her by the wrists to retrain her so that she could not leave. Here is the info form the two posts, copied below, put in time sequence. The OP confused a lot of people on this thread.
> 
> [/LIST]
> 
> ...


Convenient how the second post after everyone has already told her she committed domestic abuse changed to be "he grabbed my wrist". My question would be how did she swing at him the second time if he already had both her wrists. 


The first one from grabbing her (as she says now)
The second one when she tried to slap him.

With her 3rd arm she tried to punched him. 

Her first post was about trying to get him locked up for pushing her, I read her posts too.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> Are you a lawyer or do you watch one on TV?
> 
> Heck, i am watching Law and Order right now. I will give my ruling on this at the end of the hour.


Neither, please show me where it says on this forum or post that only lawyers should reply. Are you a lawyer? Did you reply on this thread? 

I don't get where some of you guys are coming from. This is clearly domestic violence situation and it does not matter to me one bit if it is coming from him or her, they need help.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

anony2 said:


> Neither, please show me where it says on this forum or post that only lawyers should reply. Are you a lawyer? Did you reply on this thread?
> 
> I don't get where some of you guys are coming from. This is clearly domestic violence situation and it does not matter to me one bit if it is coming from him or her, they need help.


I think that some people did not really read both of the posts in which the OP described the event. Sadly she left off the part about her husband grabbing her wrists to restrain her from leaving.

And yes that is domestic violence.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Convenient how the second post after everyone has already told her she committed domestic abuse changed to be "he grabbed my wrist". My question would be how did she swing at him the second time if he already had both her wrists.
> 
> 
> The first one from grabbing her (as she says now)
> ...


As someone stated earlier, most likely neither one would get locked up for doing what was explained here.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

COguy said:


> It's easy to tell if there's misandry or misogyny going on. Replace the hers with hims and vice versa and see if you still feel the same way.
> 
> "She got angry, I wanted to let it go. She grabbed my wrists and kept me from leaving so I tried to hit her. If she hadn't tried to stop me I wouldn't have swung at her."


Yep, and if a woman were to grab a man by the wrist and thus prevent him from leaving, it's still domestic violence. And if he swung at her or slapped her to get her to release his wrists, it's self defense... on his part.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Convenient how the second post after everyone has already told her she committed domestic abuse changed to be "he grabbed my wrist".


You are right that we have no way of knowing if that second post is true or if she added it to mitigate her own actions.

Some here dismiss the second post. Others accept is further explanation. Neither group is wrong. And to attack



sokillme said:


> My question would be how did she swing at him the second time if he already had both her wrists.
> 
> 
> The first one from grabbing her (as she says now)
> ...


That's easy. I guess you have never had someone grab you by your writs for the purpose of restraining you. I have several times. Even though I could not break the hold on my wrists, I could move my arms around. I could have hit/slapped the guy. But I was only trying to break lose.



sokillme said:


> Her first post was about trying to get him locked up for pushing her, I read her posts too.


Yes, she was asking about if what happened after she tried to slap him was domestic violence. Perhaps she did not realize that him restraining her by her writs is also domestic violence and thus she left that off (if it was true).


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

anony2 said:


> As someone stated earlier, most likely neither one would get locked up for doing what was explained here.


If the entire story she told was true, that it started with him restraining her by her wrists, then it was domestic violence and she had injuries from when she fell. So there is a chance that charges would have been brought against him. In that scenario, he's the aggressor. Her attempted slap was self defense. So yea, he could have been charged for that.

But if it started with her just trying to slap him, she's the aggressor. It's still domestic violence. He had no visible injuries. So I doubt anyone would be charged.

The problem is that we don't know what the real story is. the OP adding the bit about her writs being restrained as the first act of aggression makes it look like she's making it up. It's often hard to figure out what really happened in situations like this.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Yep, and if a woman were to grab a man by the wrist and thus prevent him from leaving, it's still domestic violence. And if he swung at her or slapped her to get her to release his wrists, it's self defense... on his part.


grabbing someones wrist is often not considered violent and not unreasonable. how long and why is taken into account.
forcing a release is "reasonable force" ... but striking, especially towards eyes or groin is escalation (and intent to injury in the case of eyes/groin). This is because "stopping someone leaving", unless there is future danger, is not significant injury - if it's prolonged then "illegal detainment" and eventually "kidnapping".

slap etc for self defense means she'd have to leave immediately (ie escape) and not mean punishment or revenge. 

the punishment for "male strikes female" is much higher that the other way around. but assault is non-gender biased. and escalation can end up with both parties getting sentenced for assault.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> You are right that we have no way of knowing if that second post is true or if she added it to mitigate her own actions.
> 
> Some here dismiss the second post. Others accept is further explanation. Neither group is wrong. And to attack
> 
> ...



Or perhaps she is just wants to strike out against him and DV is a good way to do that. My question is if she wanted to pursue DV wouldn't she have posted that he restrained her in the first post. That would at least be an avenue to pursue? From the tone of her first post she wasn't to worried about him until he pushed her which was after she tried to hit him twice. 

The point is from the evidence we have it certainly seems like at the very least both are in the wrong, however as usual one person on here seems to only find one person at fault. And as usual this has everything to do with that persons gender. If this was with the same constancy and the bias was skin color I highly doubt everyone would be giving such person a pass. I would be the first in line complaining about it as well. It's just as wrong either way and it a bad reflection on this site that it is continually allowed here. 

sigh.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

spotthedeaddog said:


> grabbing someones wrist is often not considered violent and not unreasonable. how long and why is taken into account.


I disagree. A person has no right to grab their spouse by the wrist and hold them, preventing them from leaving on their own free will.



spotthedeaddog said:


> forcing a release is "reasonable force" ... but striking, especially towards eyes or groin is escalation (and intent to injury in the case of eyes/groin). This is because "stopping someone leaving", unless there is future danger, is not significant injury –


Once a person has been grabbed and retrained by their wrists, how do they know if there is future danger. It’s completely reasonable to assume that if someone grabs/retrains you by the wrists that their intent is to harm you. Why on earth would a person be required to wait until the grabber starts to further harm them? A reasonable person would try to get away from the restraint as soon as possible. It a slap does it, then good.


spotthedeaddog said:


> if it's prolonged then "illegal detainment" and eventually "kidnapping".


 slap etc for self defense means she'd have to leave immediately (ie escape) and not mean punishment or revenge. 



spotthedeaddog said:


> the punishment for "male strikes female" is much higher that the other way around. but assault is non-gender biased. and escalation can end up with both parties getting sentenced for assault.


This is because the men are, on average much stronger than women. So it’s more likely that a woman will be injured by bare handed physical violence by a man.

I agree that in the OP’s case, both could end up getting sentenced for assault. And I think that in the case of the OP, that’s probably the most reasonable solution.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

A whole lot of jib jab here without a lot of factual info......Waste of a conversation IMO.......


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Or perhaps she is just wants to strike out against him and DV is a good way to do that.


Yep, this could be what she's doing. We don't know. 

As a person posting on an open forum like this, I'm taking the stance that there are two possible truths here... 

1. He did not restrain her first. She started it with the slap.

2. He restrained her by the wrists first and thus her actions after that were reasonable.

It's two different stories. Some people here believe (or are arguing) #1 and some believe and are arguing #2.

Which is true? I don't know. People seldom tell the entire story in their first post. I'm not going to try to figure out which is the real story.



sokillme said:


> My question is if she wanted to pursue DV wouldn't she have posted that he restrained her in the first post. That would at least be an avenue to pursue? From the tone of her first post she wasn't to worried about him until he pushed her which was after she tried to hit him twice.


One explanation for why she might have posted the way she did is that she did not become injured when he restrained her by her wrists. She did become insured because of what he did after she slapped (or tried to slap) him. So she was only concerned about that which led to her injuries.



sokillme said:


> The point is, from the evidence we have it certainly seems like at the very least both are in the wrong,


You mean that from the evidence that you accept, because you choose to reject the additional evidence that the OP provided.
If #1 is the scenario, then she started the violence and his actions are self-defense.

If #2 above is the real story, he’s at fault. He started the violence by restraining her and not allowing her to leave. In that scenario, her slap was her attempt to stop the restraint and he escalated from there.



sokillme said:


> however as usual one person on here seems to only find one person at fault. .


Of interest, every single male posting on this thread rejects that he restrained her by the wrist. Every single male believes that she started the violence.

Some of the women, not all, accepted the extra info that the OP gave in her follow up posts.


sokillme said:


> And as usual this has everything to do with that persons gender


“That” person is not the only person who took into consideration the additional info that the OP provided about her husband restraining her by her wrists as the first act of violence.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Of interest, every single male posting on this thread rejects that he restrained her by the wrist. Every single male believes that she started the violence.


I just said at the very least they both are at fault. From her first post no one would say he is at fault though. Only from her second.

Again, this is not the first time "that person"'s agenda has cause trouble on this board. Ignore it if you want, heaven forbid though some guy comes on her and says his wife cheated on him and "that person" tells him in so many words it's his fault. That would be on you moderators if that happens.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sokillme said:


> I just said at the very least they both are at fault. From her first post no one would say he is at fault though. Only from her second.
> 
> Again, this is not the first time "that person"'s agenda has cause trouble on this board. Ignore it if you want, heaven forbid though some guy comes on her and says his wife cheated on him and "that person" tells him in so many words it's his fault. That would be on you moderators if that happens.


This thread is not the place to discuss your personal issue with another poster. If you want to PM me, that's fine.

Plus it's my bed time.. 1am.. so way after my bed time. So if you want we can talk about it tomorrow.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> This thread is not the place to discuss your personal issue with another poster. If you want to PM me, that's fine.
> 
> Plus it's my bed time.. 1am.. so way after my bed time. So if you want we can talk about it tomorrow.



I will let it go I have said my piece, it is not personal it is only about the offensive content that is posted.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

sokillme said:


> Or perhaps she is just wants to strike out against him and DV is a good way to do that. My question is if she wanted to pursue DV wouldn't she have posted that he restrained her in the first post. That would at least be an avenue to pursue? From the tone of her first post she wasn't to worried about him until he pushed her which was after she tried to hit him twice.
> 
> The point is from the evidence we have it certainly seems like at the very least both are in the wrong, however as usual one person on here seems to only find one person at fault. And as usual this has everything to do with that persons gender. If this was with the same constancy and the bias was skin color I highly doubt everyone would be giving such person a pass. I would be the first in line complaining about it as well. It's just as wrong either way and it a bad reflection on this site that it is continually allowed here.
> 
> sigh.


This thread is about the OP. Some people think she is telling the truth and was not the first aggressor. That's about the crux of it. Your dislike of another poster is not the OPs problem.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

The story and details changed in this thread. And the title does not match. Hard to tell what is truth here. Most OPs would tell the critical details in first post, not change the story. To me the story changed, not just an elaboration of details. 

What other advice is there to give but for them to divorce?


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

Blue, are you a private detective? It is not your job to try and say what she said or determine which came first the chicken or the egg....she was asked what started all of that and she answered.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Matt, in her second (or third post) she said that before she tried to slap him, she tried to leave. He grabbed her wrist and physically prevented her from leaving. That is when she tried to slap him.. to get him to release her and let her leave.


This explanation reminds me of a young female American comedian who did a parody of old movies.

Something like this...

"So I hit lefty in the face. No! Wait! I remember now! I never hit Lefty! Lefty hits me, first! Then, as I fell to the floor I must have accidentally caught Lefty on the face with my foot! Yeah! That's what happened, officer! You gotta believe me! I wouldn't hurt Lefty! He is my pal!"

Or to paraphrase Groucho Marx, "And that is my story. And if you don't like that story, I have plenty of others!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

anony2 said:


> Blue, are you a private detective? It is not your job to try and say what she said or determine which came first the chicken or the egg....she was asked what started all of that and she answered.



I was many years ago.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Convenient how the second post after everyone has already told her she committed domestic abuse changed to be "he grabbed my wrist". My question would be how did she swing at him the second time if he already had both her wrists.
> 
> 
> The first one from grabbing her (as she says now)
> ...


SOme of yall must have me on ignore. I said this earlier. Funny, I can go get threads where posters hold the man accountable for his first post and do not allow him to rewrite anything when it comes to DV or abuse.


Yeah, time to go.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

the moral of the story is: walk away from crazy

it's not clear what the truth is here. probably both of them are out of line.

one of them should be smart enough to disengage.

instead, it's a contest of wills over who is "right" and who is "the abuser"

if you are a guy, you will always lose this contest, regardless of the facts.

so it's better not to play.


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## westcoast11 (Aug 11, 2016)

Thank you very much for this advice. I understand we both have our own flaws and individual faults in this scenario, my main hope in posting in this forum was to gain some clarity from those not as close to the situation, and suggestions on how to move forward from here if we decide to do so together. I appreciate this.



Luvher4life said:


> I think what the OP is saying is that she got mad at him for not accessing his e-mail. An argument pursued, things got heated enough that she just wanted to leave, yet he wouldn't allow her to. I envision him following her around, all the while arguing, and she had enough and felt like she needed to go somewhere, anywhere, just to cool off. He wasn't going to let her just walk away, so he blocked the door, grabbed her wrists, etc. Then, it escalated into the actual physical altercation.
> 
> Both of them were wrong, and neither is more to blame than the other, in my opinion. I like MarriedDude's approach to this situation, in that she needs to keep her cool and approach him with what really triggered her to get angered in the first place. There's definitely a lot of jealousy and distrust in this relationship whether justified or not.
> 
> ...


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## westcoast11 (Aug 11, 2016)

We were standing in front of the door (his back to it, me facing him in front of it). I was trying to grab the doorknob to leave, but he kept blocking me which included grabbing my wrists. I lost my cool and tried to slap him -- I just wanted to get out of there.



jld said:


> OP? Can you address this?


Yes. I'm still trying to work my head around how one needs to block a slap when one already has control of the arms by the wrist.
OP? Can you address this?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Everyone seems to be talking about you try to slap him in self defence, but in your first post you said you tried to 'punch him in the face'.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

westcoast11,

Both you and your husband need to get into counseling for anger management. 

What happened it way out of line. You are the one who is most likely to get hurt regardless of who is at fault. He's larger than you and men are generally much stronger than women.

But this sort of nonsense can be stopped and you two can learn better ways to handle things.

If he will not go to counseling for anger management, you go. It only takes one person to de-escalate a situation. 

If you two don't stop the angry outbursts and violence, you need to leave the relationship.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jorgegene said:


> Everyone seems to be talking about you try to slap him in self defence, but in your first post you said you tried to 'punch him in the face'.





westcoast11 said:


> Last night, my husband and I got into a heated argument, and* I attempted to slap him*, but his arms caught mine. In retaliation, I* tried to throw a punch to his shoulder/general facial area *but he caught that too, then shoved me quite hard. I lost my balance and fell backward near a nightstand, and ended up with scratch cuts on my hands. I forced him to let me leave the house (he kept refusing my pleas to leave, so I threatened to rip up our marriage license to show him I was serious about needing space -- the terrible thing is, I meant it) then I spent the night in a hotel. We haven't contacted each other since.


They got into a brawl


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> They got into a brawl


If I was the LEO called to the scene, I'd arrest both of them, and if I was still an ADA, I'd accept charges on both.

I think instead of trying to figure out who started what and who's more abusive than who, it would be a lot more constructive to address de-escalation and anger management. I've read some excellent advice to that end on this page alone.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

as long as one person in the relationship thinks it's justifiable to get physical with the other one, it will end in disaster.

there is no justification for it for either person.

you always have the option of walking away or leaving.

if you are truly, truly in a situation where there is no option of just walking away, then that is a different story. obviously, defend yourself if you need to.

but if you have a choice to just walk away and you don't exercise that, you are NOT defending yourself, no matter who "started it."


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## westcoast11 (Aug 11, 2016)

First off I just want to thank everyone for taking the time to read my accounts and offer your advice. I was not expecting this volume of response at all and it speaks to what an attentive, supportive community this is that welcomes a diverse range of perspectives, all helpful in enabling me to understand what's transpired.

Second, I want to clarify that when I asked if this "counted as domestic violence" -- in no way was I trying to charge my husband with anything/take him to court/"get him." I think my language was taken quite literally in that sense with all the court talk that then transpired -- I was simply asking to better understand what had just happened. To define it for myself, in a way. I've not been in a situation like this previously. 

I think the short of it is -- We got into an argument because I found his behavior triggering a past betrayal, I attempted to leave with unsuccessful attempts to grab the doorknob (blocking/wrist grabbing), my hurt/temper built to the point where I attempted to slap him, and YES, probably attempted a punch by that point too because honestly, I had sorta blacked out by that point. (Anger does not provide the best clarity.) Which led to the shove.

Neither of us were saints in this scenario, and I know I'm 100% at fault for my portion. I think overall this mainly gives me a lot to think about in regards to whether we're right for each other and should move forward.

Thank you for taking the time to weigh in and provide your insight.


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## Luvher4life (Jan 15, 2016)

westcoast11 said:


> Thank you very much for this advice. I understand we both have our own flaws and individual faults in this scenario, my main hope in posting in this forum was to gain some clarity from those not as close to the situation, and suggestions on how to move forward from here if we decide to do so together. I appreciate this.


Did you make threats such as "I'm going to just kill myself", or anything of that nature? Had either one of you been drinking?

Be honest. What was you saying when he was blocking the door? I'm just trying to get the scenario pictured in my head.

From what you've mentioned earlier, it appears that you have been physical with him before, while he just defended himself without lashing back. It seems you pushed him a little too far this time. It doesn't "justify" anything, and he was abusive, but by the same token you were, too.

I hate to say this, but I've seen abusive relationships my entire life, and know how these scenarios escalate. I also hate to admit that I have been abusive in some past relationships, and I think it's because I grew up around it. It's a cycle that can get worse. It's a cycle that can also be changed if you are strong willed enough to make necessary changes. I'm living proof of that.


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## westcoast11 (Aug 11, 2016)

I'm confused -- no one was drinking or making suicidal threats here. That would have been a major thing to leave out of my story.

As said in my earlier account, I got mad after his gmail behavior, he kept asking me why I was now distant/had attitude, so I yelled that I felt he was up to something, and I'm not that stupid. And just wanted to leave.



Luvher4life said:


> Did you make threats such as "I'm going to just kill myself", or anything of that nature? Had either one of you been drinking?
> 
> Be honest. What was you saying when he was blocking the door? I'm just trying to get the scenario pictured in my head.
> 
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

westcoast11 said:


> First off I just want to thank everyone for taking the time to read my accounts and offer your advice. I was not expecting this volume of response at all and it speaks to what an attentive, supportive community this is that welcomes a diverse range of perspectives, all helpful in enabling me to understand what's transpired.
> 
> Second, I want to clarify that when I asked if this "counted as domestic violence" -- in no way was I trying to charge my husband with anything/take him to court/"get him." I think my language was taken quite literally in that sense with all the court talk that then transpired -- I was simply asking to better understand what had just happened. To define it for myself, in a way. I've not been in a situation like this previously.
> 
> ...


What you need to do is figure out some deescalating ways of handling things.

He blocks the door... you just go sit down and stop interacting with him. 

If he grabs your wrists stop physically fighting it and stop verbally fighting. Go limp. 

If he continues to harass you after you sit down and de-escalate you go to another room and lock the door. If he still continues to harass, yells, bangs on the door, etc, you call 911.

Most of all you need to learn to end interacting with him when you get upset. Do not allow yourself to get to the point where you are so angry that you 'black out'. 

Take some time to go through this altercation and other arguments you have had and pin point the time when you can tell (in retrospect) that you and he were escalating. Learn to ID that in real time when the two of you are interacting. And in the future, this is the time when you call a time out.

As I mentioned earlier, I was married to a man who was physically abusive. I made the mistake of trying to verbally defend myself against his constant verbal attacks which often led to him escalating to violence. ( I did not hit back... always just tried to get away)

Then I started to use a de-escalation method that I read about in the book "The Dance of Anger". 

It said to have a safe word, "STOP". When things first start to escalate, to put your hand up in the stop signal and to firmly say "STOP". Then tell the other that you are leaving for a while so that both of you can calm down. then go to another room, or for a walk, etc.

I practiced this in front of a mirror, while imagining one of our altercations and would say it out loud, putting my hand up right before the point of escalation. I practiced until it was an automatic response.

Then I had a talk with him when we were both calm. Told him how I hated the anger and was afraid. That the ugly words spewed could never be taken back so they should never be said. And I told him that I would be doing the "STOP" thing. 

From then on out , that's what I did. He caught on. It got to the point where, if I did the "STOP" thing he would just grab his helmet and go for an hour bike ride.

After a couple of months, all angry outburst stopped... this included him attacking my physically.

Its completely possible to stop the angry outbursts.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

breeze said:


> This thread is about the OP. Some people think she is telling the truth and was not the first aggressor. That's about the crux of it. Your dislike of another poster is not the OPs problem.


I don't have a problem with the poster I have a problem with gender bias. Everyone should. Woman most especially since they are subject to it so much. If you don't want me to post about it quit calling me out about it in your posts.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> *Both you and your husband need to get into counseling for anger management. *
> 
> If you two don't stop the angry outbursts and violence, you need to leave the relationship.


I agree that counselling is needed. I also think you should just end the relationship, as I think there is something about you two together that brings out the worst in each other.

Good people can be driven to do bad things in certain circumstances. Part of being mature is to own when a situation is unhealthy and make hard choices to get out of that situation.

I hope you figure this out before things get worse. Good luck.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Is there anyone that doesn't think this kind of "relationship" is f-ucked up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uelHwf8o7_U


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> As I mentioned earlier, I was married to a man who was physically abusive. I made the mistake of trying to verbally defend myself against his constant verbal attacks which often led to him escalating to violence. ( I did not hit back... always just tried to get away)
> 
> Then I started to use a de-escalation method that I read about in the book "The Dance of Anger".
> 
> ...


 @EleGirl - This is impressive to read. You learned how to manipulate the beast to take back control of the situation. I did something similar in my first marriage, so I know exactly how difficult this is.

You were never truly safe in that relationship. The key point, to my mind, is *you did divorce him*.

Skip to the end, OP. Save yourself the gory struggle, it isn't worth it. Every moment you spend in a miserable relationship like this, is theft. You are stealing away your own precious moments of happiness. We only get so many in this life.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

People are always quick to say end the relationship

reading between the lines, I see two kind of insecure, immature people here.

they can both improve and their problems will go away. if they split, they are likely to repeat the same problems with other people.

both the OP and her husband seem to get thrown off by the other's emotional volatility.

their individual volatility feeds the other's volatility and then you get into a crazy cycle.

they should each simply decide what their boundaries are and unemotionally make them clear. then unemotionally back them up.

for the OP, her boundary may be that she does not want her husband to hide his communications due to his past infidelity. 

if he's not willing to do this, then she will need to decide whether that is relationship ending. 

It does not need to be confrontational. She can't make him share his communications with her. She can only tell him she expects it and what will happen if he doesn't.

it's likely the case that neither of them has this sort of stuff straight in their own heads. so they air this internal discord out live with each other.

take a big step back, reflect calmly on what you expect out of a relationship, whether it is realistic, whether your partner provides it and what you are actually willing to do about that. 

Then act accordingly without the drama.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Anon1111 said:


> People are always quick to say end the relationship
> 
> reading between the lines, I see two kind of insecure, immature people here.
> 
> *they can both improve and their problems will go away. if they split, they are likely to repeat the same problems with other people.*


Respectfully, Anon, have you ever experienced an abusive relationship? I agree with you they are insecure and immature, but I disagree their problems will 'go away'.

Another way of looking at this is, they are trying to force a square peg in a round hole. Some people are just incompatible and bring out the worst in each other. I agree that both are demonstrating immature behaviours but when it reaches the point of physical violence, I think it's very unlikely they will improve to the point their problems will go away.

What is more likely is they find other, more compatible partners who don't aggravate whatever insecurities they both have.

The other possibility is there is one partner who is more "messed up" than the other in these relationships. I can't tell from the OP if this is the case here, but I can tell you from my own experience (and I'd guess it's the same with Ele) that my exH continues to have problems with his new GF and I don't with my H. I went for IC and unwound a lot of tangles, he didn't.

I tried to get my ex to change for almost 20 years. In hindsight, I should have left in the first 5 years. The signs were there, I chose to ignore them.

Good luck, OP.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

OP, have you documented your injuries? Please take photos of them, and consider showing other people so you have some witnesses.

You should also write down exactly what happened, from beginning to end. Leave nothing out.

Could you talk more about how you blacked out? 

Are you in counseling? Could you call today for an emergency appointment? Calling a lawyer would be a good idea, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Luvher4life (Jan 15, 2016)

westcoast11 said:


> I'm confused -- no one was drinking or making suicidal threats here. That would have been a major thing to leave out of my story.
> 
> As said in my earlier account, I got mad after his gmail behavior, he kept asking me why I was now distant/had attitude, so I yelled that I felt he was up to something, and I'm not that stupid. And just wanted to leave.


I wasn't insinuating anything, and if that's the way it came across I apologize. I've seen both a few times before, and was trying to get an accurate picture of how it might have escalated.

Needless to say, he shouldn't have kept you from being able to leave, and you should've been more calm in your approach. There's fault in both of you.

If I were you, I would heed the advice given by EleGirl, and do what you must do. If the two of you can't take control of your tempers, this relationship will continue to cycle towards more abuse. You have more control of the escalation than you realize, but he has to be able to control himself, too.

Suffice it to say, if steps are not taken to stop this abusive cycle the relationship will end badly, and usually with one or both of you in jail. Stop it!


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

sapientia said:


> Respectfully, Anon, have you ever experienced an abusive relationship? I agree with you they are insecure and immature, but I disagree their problems will 'go away'.
> 
> Another way of looking at this is, they are trying to force a square peg in a round hole. Some people are just incompatible and bring out the worst in each other. I agree that both are demonstrating immature behaviours but when it reaches the point of physical violence, I think it's very unlikely they will improve to the point their problems will go away.
> 
> ...


you might be right. It's hard to tell from this one incident though.

To be clear, I'm not saying this one incident is excusable. I just don't see evidence that there is some pattern of abuse here.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

jld said:


> OP, have you documented your injuries? Please take photos of them, and consider showing other people so you have some witnesses.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Taking pictures and showing them to people does not make them witnesses. It must be first hand because injuries and photos can be faked. Or the pictures would need to be taken by a person of standing. If you don't know anything about this topic please don't give out poor or bad advice. 

You should advise her to seek guidance from a domestic violence center. Hotline, online or in person. 

She also has option for TRO and either the center or local DA or police can tell her what documentation is needed. 

She also needs to understand her culpability. If she gets physical she can go to jail. The DV center will offer her guidance on what she should or should not do to protect herself and remain out of jail.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

OP -I hope your holding up and making good choices in terms of communication and protecting yourself. 

Have you talked with your husband about any of this?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

OP, I meant that you should show people your injuries, so that you have their testimony in addition to the pictures I hope you have taken.


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## westcoast11 (Aug 11, 2016)

Thank you. We still haven't spoken since the incident. We've been in the same room but only briefly (I had a work engagement last night, so came home later then just walked past him straight to the bedroom. We missed each other this morning, as he usually leaves for work earlier than I do.)

I'm thinking our next encounter / time to talk will be tonight when we both get home from work. I'm still sorting through what I want to say though.



MarriedDude said:


> OP -I hope your holding up and making good choices in terms of communication and protecting yourself.
> 
> Have you talked with your husband about any of this?


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Ffs, can we please stop letting the threads degenerate like this? There isn't a prize for who gives the best advice, we are all just guessing and extrapolating based on our own experience.

Assume the OP has enough intelligence to figure out what advice will work best. She knows enough to type and use a computer on the internet.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

westcoast11 said:


> Thank you. We still haven't spoken since the incident. We've been in the same room but only briefly (I had a work engagement last night, so came home later then just walked past him straight to the bedroom. We missed each other this morning, as he usually leaves for work earlier than I do.)
> 
> I'm thinking our next encounter / time to talk will be tonight when we both get home from work. I'm still sorting through what I want to say though.


if you want to reconcile, go to him when you are able to remain completely calm.

your number 1 goal will be to avoid re-starting the same fight.

accept in advance that you may not get any resolution as to who was "right."

say in whatever way you are comfortable what you regret about your own behavior. 

Do not expect that you will receive an apology from him in exchange. You will be answering for yourself only, not trying to extract something from him.

if you don't think you can do this, then there is no point in having the interaction.

if you can look at this as step 1 in a long term project for you to take greater responsibility for yourself and to stop simply "reacting" emotionally to how he acts to you, it will be positive regardless of what he does.

If he was here, I would say the exact same thing to him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

{Speaking as a moderator here}

I just deleted the latest thread jack on this thread.

I've been trying to keep this thread focused on solutions for the OP but quite honestly I have a life. So......

The OP is here to get help. It was established a while back that DV did occur and they are both at fault. And they both need to work to fix this or end the marriage. That part of the discussion is over.

All this argument about what constitutes domestic violence, hypothetical scenarios, and expressing how much you disagree with or hate some other poster is way out of line.

From here on out only offer advice/input directly to the OP. 

If you want to discuss DV in general, a new thread has been started. Go join that thread.

Anyone who continues the thread jack will get a time-out ban.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

@westcoast11



westcoast11 said:


> Thank you. We still haven't spoken since the incident. We've been in the same room but only briefly (I had a work engagement last night, so came home later then just walked past him straight to the bedroom. We missed each other this morning, as he usually leaves for work earlier than I do.)
> 
> I'm thinking our next encounter / time to talk will be tonight when we both get home from work. I'm still sorting through what I want to say though.


Sorting through your thoughts is a very good idea. You might find it easier write them down....that way, it will be harder to get off track. If you can, hold his hand as you talk to him....keep that contact going. Dont sit across from each other at a table...sit together on a couch or bed...this isnt a negotiation, its a heart to heart with your husband that loves you and that you, in turn, love. Keep your posture open, accepting. Avoid crossing your arms, be mindful of your tone and facial expressions, for most men, a softly spoken female voice is calming...use that. 

As you are collecting your thoughts remember to keep the discussion productive. Dont let it turn into an accusation festival..remember your goals. If he wants some time to answer you, give it to him. He is upset as well....some men will show fear as anger...be as kind as you can, be polite and respectful, if it gets too heated, as if you can take a break from your talk to re-collect your thoughts. Its best not to leave the room when you are doing this, if you have to. 

BUT....you need to keep your anger in check. If he trys to bait you...dont take. It takes two to argue...if you wont, it stops. If you have a very trusted friend or family member, it would be good to let them kniw that you may need help...you dont have to tell them the entire story...just ask them to be ready to swing by at a pre-appointed time if you dont check in. 

Be safe, be calm. yelling, adrenaline production, making fists, all produce the opposite of the effect you want. 

Good luck and be safe ( you could post your duscussion notes ahead of time here if you want some input of presentation).

Calm

Calm

Calm
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

Also, a few days ago, my sons counselor brought over a pamphlet called how to fight fair. I realize now that I was NEVER a fair fighter and thus contributed to the domestic violence. I was always dredging up one incident from the past and that was the first red flag that I ignored...which was when I found out about him sexting other women and keeping them around and labeling them as friends so I would not know. 

Looking back, I realize now that that one incident SHOULD HAVE BEEN my deal breaker. But I was invested in the relationship and he promised to make up for it. Well, there was no way to make up for it and the investment "I" had was of course, one sided. 

Going through all of the domestic violence counseling I had, and contrary to popular belief from the comments on this forum, was not about "oh, he was such a bad man" it was more like; "how could YOU have handled this differently"? It was getting out of the victim mode and realizing that you have a choice in the matter and in the marriage. 

Practicing what Elegirl said is an excellent idea. I was reading something not too long ago that said that if you practice this once, and then again and so forth, it will be how you continue to deal with things in other areas of your life, so it isn't just for marriage. It actually resets your brain pattern. It not only helped me separate myself from the domestic violence pattern, but also helped me deal with other people in my life, such as my kids and my job.


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## Natthewife (Jun 16, 2014)

A very long time ago with a previous partner I fell victim to domestic abuse. This over time taught me to become an instigator also of which I am very ashamed. This relationship ended after 7 long years of absolute hell. It took me to move away, meet a new man and retrain my brain on how I react and deal with situations. 
I look back on the previous relationship with utter disbelief. It seriously astounds me. 

What you need to do first is revaluate your relationship, if you both feel this is a relationship too good to give up on then talk about what you both need to do to completely remove any chance of this happening again. 
The process of how anger and frustration is dealt with needs modified to a more healthy and safe way where you can both get your feelings across but know your limits and when to momentarily walk away, even for a brief period of time to cool off.
I didn't need counseling to do this I just had determination that I wanted this relationship to be the best it can be, done my own research and took it from there. It's amazing what you can do with determination. 
Good luck to the both of you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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