# Is she or isn't she?



## TomO (May 16, 2013)

So... this is my first time posting to something like this but I have no where to turn and no one to talk to that wouldn't put "our news" out for all to know. 

My wife of almost 10 years started a full time job about 10 months ago as an events coordinator. It is a demanding job with lots of long hours. The Job is in a college which is trying desperately to bring new venues onto their campus and get exposure and income for the school. The atmosphere at her work is very friendly and inviting. I have been there several times and meet most of her colleagues. 

My issue is this up untill about 3 months ago she never really used her cell phone. As such she was on a pre-paid plan which 1,000 minutes used to last like 4-6 months. Around end of March begining of April she recharged her phone which I thought nothing of, then within the space of a week she needed to recharge again. 

When I approached her about it she said she had begun using her phone for work more and more and that this is the busy season for colleges. I said we needed to then get her on a regular plan as soon as possible, which we did. 

Around this same time I noticed marked changes in her behaviors somone who was never on the phone was now on it all the time texting constantly. when I asked her about it she said she was having a hard time with her upcomming b-day ane was talking to a close mutual firend who was going through the same thing. 

I have never had a reason to not trust my wife in the almost 10 years we have been together but this coupled with other behaviours started to trouble me and give me that nagging feeling in my stomach. 

I forgot to mention she had asked me to put a code on her phone because of prying eyes at work, only for me to find she had later changed her code to something else and didn't tell me she said given the nature of her conversations with her firend she did not want our 8 year old daughter to see the texts. 

Long story short when she got the new phone with the new code I called her old # and checked her voice mails. I think checked on the new phone as well. There was a guy calling both numbers calling her honey but really nothing else of interest. When I approached her about it (all be it not in the right way) she was furious that I checked on her, and swore that the messages were the result of someone calling the wrong number. I have serious doubts that someone call two wong number (same incomming #) and made that mistake. Come to fine out the guy is an older student at the school and also works part time at security. 

Well a week or two went by and I still couldn't get over that gut feeling so I observed her and learned the code to her phone. I found his number saved in the phone as one of her girlfriends. So I set up her online account so I oculd see just how much calling and texting was going on between them. turns out quite a lot. 148 to and from texts in the space of 3-4 days and a handful maybe 4-5 quick calls. 

I printed everything and confronted her and asked for an explanation. She was furious and said she hid his number because she didn't want me to see his name after the voicemails and that she needs to talk to him from time to time because of her job. She also said it wasn't her and there must be some kind of mistake with respect to the phone records. I just do not think the phone carrier got this wrong. 

The last week or two has been very rocky between us and we did start to talk but it escalated into and arguement where she got so mad I was accusing her that she said we should just go our seperate ways. I told her this is not what I wanted, but need to understand all the coincidences that are happening where this guy is concerned. 

I'm really confused right now and feel that there is something wrong and that we are just going through the motions rather than addressing it head on. I want to know if any of you have ever found yourself in a similar situation and how you've handled it. Of if anyone has advise given the circumstances. If she really has cheated on me I could never forgive it. Either way right now I'm affraid this has ruined what was left of our marriage, but I don't want to run out the door as there is an eight year old little girl involved that loves her parents deeply.

Any thought, suggestions or comments are appreciated.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

Ouch she lied to cover up a lie, not good. reloading 1000 minute blocks within a week, not good, 148 texts in 3-4 days, not good.

Welcome to TAM, sorry your here, my gut feeling is that you have more than justified your doubts. This is at least an emotional affair at this point, maybe even physical if he's the janitor and has keys to everywhere while there at work.

I feel for you, the feelings of betrayal can be crippling. I'd bare minimum start the 180:
The Healing Heart: The 180
and see how far that gets you, prepare yourself emotionally that this might get worse before it can get better. No woman is gonna admit to an affair until absolute PROOF is given. The problem now is she knows your watching, look for cash withdrawls or a charges to possiblely go buy a GO PHONE that she can keep hidden from you now. Maybe put a VAR, voice activated recorder, under the seat of her car (cheap at like walmart) Velcro it in really good. Maybe if you have the funds, hire a Private investigator to follow her around a bit. Her old phone is prob not gonna yield any more info cause she knows your watching, they will take any affair underground now.


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## TomO (May 16, 2013)

Thanks Thumper, 

The 180 is I beleive exactly what I needed right now. I would like to believe that if there is an affair it is emotional right now, however who knows. 

I am going to begin implementing this today and see what happens. I've been thinking about these things, maybe seeing it in print will be the kick in the pants that I needed to get things moving. 

Quick question did you yourself ever do the 180?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

She is. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

I'm still doing the 180, but its more to help myself than try to make the marriage work at this point. I'm pretty sure my wife has moved on, although she says all the things I want to hear, except going to MC. Its all a form of manipulation. Until she decides that MC is back on the table, I've told her there no reason to talk reconciliation.

For me an emotional affair is something i'd be willing to forgive and forget, but if I found out it got physical, at least for me, its a deal breaker.

Its funny in these situations how time can be both your friend, and your enemy, so use your time wisely.


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## TomO (May 16, 2013)

Thanks again Thumper. Seems like you and I are in the same lousy boat unfortunately. I have a feeling the 180 is going to be for me and my daughter and not to save the marriage. I too could never forgive a physical affair. But really at this point I don't know that I'd beleive her if she put it all out on the table and said it was only an emotional affair. I think you make a valid point about MC and I've mentioned it and will continue while on the 180 ash she notices and inquires. 

Good luck with your situation and keep me looped in on how it turns out. I'll do the same. I'm starting it today.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

OP: Her excuses are BS. That's very clear. This is at least an EA. EAs are just as bad if not worse than PAs. Don't minimize EAs. It means she's invested her emotional energy in another man other than you.

She's angry at you. A very typical cheater's response. She wants to deny.

Rather than carry on with an uneasy truce, I think you need to sit her down and talk to her very openly. Tell her she needs to tell you the truth. YOu have tons of evidence of her cheating. What she says is ridiculous. Tell her that if your marraige means anything to her that she has to come clean and stop ALL contact with this guy, PERIOD.

IF she refuses, deflects, denies, etc. Then file for a divorce. Because it means she's already checked out or is so much in the affair fog that she can't see straight. You have to shock her out of it and to do that, you have to risk ending your marriage.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Tom,

She's lying to you. As others have said, it's at least an EA but truth be told that since they work together and she's putting in long hours and he's in security (and would know where they could go and not be "bothered") I fear the worst

Long hours in of itself for an event coordinator isn't too unusual. It the added fact of the security guard that's the issue.

You need to get a keylogger on your PC too, ASAP. She's up to something because she's waving t a whole bunch of Red Flags.

You should ask a moderator to move this to the infidelity section


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## TomO (May 16, 2013)

Thanks Toffer, I am pretty new at this, can you tell me how to request a move to to a differnt area?

Thanks,


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Ray Charles could see this from a mile away. Your wife is having an affair. Do something about it!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

PBear said:


> She is.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Is there any rules about a student having an affair with someone in the university? Or is that with a professor only?

There is an affair going on and like Thumper said earlier, she'll deny everything unless there is any concrete proof. I'm glad you saw this early, but understand you have no chance with her unless this guy is out of the equation.

Why do you think she suggested to go separate ways? She wants the space to continue what she is doing without having to worry about you. Expect the "speech" to come which goes something like this.....you are controlling, you don't want me to be who I am, I have not felt good about this marriage for the last five years, I think we both need time away from each other to heal since we are all busted up now, and we need to fix ourselves before we can fix this marriage.

I don't know about the 180 to be honest. I tried it and it didn't work. If I could rewind time with my wife, I would have brought out the bazooka. Just lay it on her. "This is the way this whole thing will play out. I want to meet this friend of yours and look him in the face. Then I want him to tell me straight to my eyes that he isn't sleeping with you. If I believe him, then you are going to cut all contact with him. If I have one hint that you still are communicating with him, then its simple, you can move out of the house. But before you do, you are going to my lawyer and we're going to agree right then and there that I will provide you no financial support and that you will sign a full custody agreement on my favor for our daughter. 

I believe its early in the game for you and you can probably break up this affair now before it truly escalates. Once your wife gets into the fog, you don't know how long it will be before she starts to see straight. Bring out the bazooka I say.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Yes, she is.


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## belleoftheball (May 16, 2013)

I most def. would have to agree and say she is. There are way to many red flags here to say otherwise. Sorry.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Many people who are having affairs talk to their affair partner on their cells commuting to and from work. Because of his, a VAR (voice activated recorder) in the car aften be used to record these conversations.

If you do this use velcro to secure the VAR to a hidden surface in her car.

also look up your state's laws about recording converstions. Generally it's best to not reveal what is recorded but to use that as info to help you know exactly what is going on.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

TomO said:


> Thanks Toffer, I am pretty new at this, can you tell me how to request a move to to a differnt area?
> 
> Thanks,


Request that one of the moderators move your post if you haven't done this already


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

What a lame excuse, "checking up on me".

From personal experience, those who always get angry have something to hide.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Yes she certainly is, and she's taking steps to hide it from you, so that tells you where her priorities and loyalties lie.

Him calling her honey is a very strong sign that its gone PA, you don't have per names for someone you haven't been physical with. You use pet names to reinforce your physical relationship when you are speaking to one another.

Use a voice activated recorder is a very good start,

I'd also be investigating the OM - where he lives, is he married etc?

Look at her call times, see if you can find the patterns of when talk,

Those short calls - those are meetings between them. First to say I'm on my way, and the second later one to say how great it was.

Most affairs do not use protection, so you might want to buy a semen detection kit and test her panties especially when circumstances may have given her the chance to hook up with him.

This may sound over the top to you, but the fact is your wife is having a relationship with this guy, she's putting real effort into hiding it from you, and she's putting a huge amount of time into him.

Do you think the OM would be putting that much effort into her if he wasn't getting in her pants?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Expect her to soon get a burner phone so you can't track her contact with him.


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## carolinadreams (Nov 30, 2012)

You need to end this now, unless you want your wife going further down the rabbit hole with this dude.

Sounds like your wife needs to find a new job. 

If she hasn't already I'm sure she will be sanitizing the phone.

Do you have her Facebook and email passwords? A particular indicator to look for in the records is if photo messages have been exchanged between the two of them.

I'd review your wife's email and facebook to see if you can lock down any other information. You need to have your wife prepare a no contact letter.

Here's where you have to be firm, or you going to lose your marriage. Explain to her that there can be no expectation of privacy with regards to communications with other men etc within the bounds of the marriage. That goes for you too unless you are doing classified work for the government.

If you get resistance, you may need to report this guy to the University's HR, and tell them you intend to name the University as a Defendant in a lawsuit if the employee continues to have inappropriate contact with your wife. That should shut it down in a hurry.


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

It would have been a lot better if you hadn't have confronted her yet, because now she's going to be extra careful. 

This student guy who you're suspecting is the OM, he works at the same college as her did you say? So they must be having some sort of physical interaction. I'd say it's an EA at the least. 

Try to find out her NEW pass code, (if she hasn't changed it already) and forward all the emails/texts to your phone for later. 

Has your wife's appearance suddenly changed? Dressing up more, wearing make up, keeping fit? Etc. 

Have you had any recent marriage problems? 

I suggest you get a VAR and put it in the car. That way if she's on the phone you'll know what she's saying. 

Does your wife have an iPhone? If so, track her whereabouts on the find my iPhone app. 

Keep us updated and good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Well Tom sorry to see you are here as I have said in the past people who come here usually do not get good news but they do always get the truth. Let me tell you how I see it.

1: She is talking to a guy more than she is talking to you.

2: This guy has a pet name for her.

3: She is hiding his name on her cell phone from you.

4: She is continuing to text him and talk to him.

5: When you asked her to stop she gave you the whole then we don't need to be together which means she would values his time more than you or your kid.

Conclusions are simple she is having at least an EA with him and possibly more. This is not in doubt she has stepped out of your marriage and at least emotionally and given the amount of texts I will not be surprised if she has gone physical. You can impliment the following actions to try to find out how far it has gone.

1: Try to get her phone code and go through her text messages if not you can get some spy stuff that will look at her phone. Others can give you the specific names.

2: Voice Activated Recorder in her car is a good decision at this point.

3: GPS in her car you can do this with your own phone if you have a decent model but you will be without your phone. 

Until you get the proof you are on the right track go 180 and dark. Start to disconnect from the relationship if she ask you why tell her she is willing to throw away this marriage for a friendship, that she is going outside the marriage for her emotional needs, that she has shown no consideration for you feelings. Also inform her that you do not want to be with someone who values a friendship over her love for you and the stability of your child. Don't get into an argument with her just state the facts. Keep the 180 and keep disconnecting these are the most important things for both YOU and YOUR marriage. Until she realizes you are going to leave her and move on she will stay in this crazy fog thing. Also keep posting the people here are very smart and excellent bullshyte busters.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

Tom, so sorry you are here. You're getting great advice from posters far more wise than me. I second the suggestion that you should try and get her new code. Chances are that she will have deleted any incriminating texts from him, but you should also check the conversations she has had with any close girlfriends. After two weeks of denials from my wife that the affair had turned physical, I found my answers that way. 

Our situations are similar. I hope for the best for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

How many stories is she going to come up with?

If I'm not mistaken her 1st lie was wrong #.
Then it was wotk stuff.
Then it turned to a friend that talked time to time.
Now it lets seperate.

So which is it?

These trail of lies leads me to believe she most definately is cheating you out of the truth.

BTW you just lost your power ranking by not excepting her offer to seperate.

Sir you should have never told her you *didn't* want to go your seperate ways!!!

You should have jumped at the chance and helped her start packing.

Sir....you just told her you aren't going any were no matter what she does or how she treats you!!!!!!!!!

So please stop beggging and crying for your marriage and show your old lady you are confident enough to let her go....a tactic that will get her to think twice what she is about to lose.

Especially when her new boy friend has to deal with her full time and dumps her now that he has to fully be there for her.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

It seems pretty obvious she is in an affair. You have a wife who constantly lies to your face time after time. If the roles were reversed and you were doing this with another female would she be so accepting as you have been. Remember two things:

1. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.

2. Since your wife is showing such disrespect to you and your marriage: If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

One more thing. Why does she feel it is acceptable to continue lying to you time and again? I think you need to put it on the table with her that any affair will be a deal-breaker to you and one more lie and it is over. I do think she is in an affair because of the red flags which is characteristic of someone in an affair.


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## carolinadreams (Nov 30, 2012)

bryanp said:


> It seems pretty obvious she is in an affair. You have a wife who constantly lies to your face time after time. If the roles were reversed and you were doing this with another female would she be so accepting as you have been. Remember two things:
> 
> 1. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.
> 
> 2. Since your wife is showing such disrespect to you and your marriage: If you do not respect yourself then who will?


This. All of the advice you are going to get, all of the procedures, strategies, everything is all worthless until you make the determination that you are worthy of fair and honest treatment, that deception is never justified, and that you are willing to stand up for that and for yourself even if it means some temporary pain to you and your wife.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

When the WS is confronted with things like phone call & text records they will lie and make excuses until they can no longer, like trying to tell you the phone records are wrong and the "girlfriend" who was really the "hi honey" guy called the wrong #twice etc. 

Mine only admitted to what I had at the time, one phone # I recognized, then as I found more, what he would admit went a little deeper until I finally said enough, tell me the full extent of it or I am out. He did, for the most part, and then finally the little details I needed also came out, once he realized he would lose it all with me.

Your WW sounds pretty defensive and telling you you should go your separate ways is a bluff. The 180 is the only way to go for you unless she proves she wants to make it work with you. Don't confront any further unless you have real evidence like texts seen or printed out on her phone or recordings on a VAR in her car. There is an 'evidence' thread on here which covers a lot of ideas for this.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Yup, she's cheating. Brace yourself.

Increase in phone use...check.
Locked phone...check.
Texting like a teenager...check.
A "he" hidden as a "she" in the contacts list...check.
Angry when confronted...check.

It's all there and all points to one thing and one thing only...some kind of affair. Now you need to figure out if it is an EA or PA.

Your biggest mistakes so far were confronting without solid proof of an affair. She will deny, deny, deny until you have solid proof. Even then she may still deny.

You also should not have said you wanted to stay and work things out when she brought up separation. You, or she, should have been immediately GONE.

The fact she mentioned separation makes me believe this is a full blown PA. She would not want a separation if you being suspicious was not somehow ruining her fun and threatening the affair. She wants you either clueless and stupid, OR, if you're suspicious, she wants you "out of the way" so she can continue to have her fun without having to worry about you.

Cheater's script: Separation = "I want to keep you hanging on so in case this doesn't work out with the other guy, I can get you back. I also don't want you interfering with my love life until I make up my mind."

Plant a couple VAR's around the house while you're gone. You'll have your answer in days.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

carolinadreams said:


> This. All of the advice you are going to get, all of the procedures, strategies, everything is all worthless until you make the determination that you are worthy of fair and honest treatment, that deception is never justified, and that you are willing to stand up for that and for yourself even if it means some temporary pain to you and your wife.


:iagree: with this totally. But you also have to be proactive if you want to save your marriage. Is it worth saving? I'd suspect that you think so. 

The suggestions about the VAR and gps are ways to ensure that she is being truthful when/if she swears she's broken it off (although she swears there's nothing to break off). 

Find out all that you can about the OM. Even if you two go your separate ways you'll want to know about this creature who will be around your daughter if it comes to that. 

Get yourself to an atty right away and see what your rights are in your state. You may be given very good advice on how to protect your assets while she's dawdling with this guy. You don't want to find out that your accts have been cleaned out. 

Do the 180 for yourself. Don't engage her in lengthy convos be sparse with your words and put your emotions on hold in her presence. No crying, begging, threatening, etc. 

But if you do threaten (say for example divorce) be sure you are willing to follow through. There's nothing worse that meaningless threats. 

You are in a tough spot. You need to have a clear head. Thus limit alcohol totally, exercise your body as much as you can and eat (although you may not feel like it) healthy. 

Be strong for your kid. ATM you are the one that the future of the family depends on if it is to survive.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

So far it's been one lie after another. From the reason for the increase in calls in March to the need to have passcode to the need to change the passcode to the supposed wrong numbers on two different phones to the entering the other man's contact info as a woman's name to - what else?.

He was calling her honey back in March. They see each other every day. She is having sex with him - this is about 100% guaranteed.

She will say or do anything to get you to drop it. First she tried lying. Now she is starting with the threats - maybe we should both just go our separate ways - really? over phone calls with a guy from work who is just a friend? Come on, you KNOW what's going on. This guy is not a viable option for her yet, maybe never will be, or maybe she's still getting all her ducks lined up. In any event, she doesn't want to give this guy up.

Buy a voice-activated recorder and some heavy-duty velcro and put it under the seat of her car.

Any new lingerie? Affair sex usually is unprotected sex - have you looked at her panties for any evidence?

If you want to save your marriage, you are going to have to blow up this affair. Can you find out if the other man is married or has a girlfriend?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

By the way, if she asks for a separation while she "figures things out" or "needs space" (cheater code for getting down and dirty with no guilt) dont - repeat - don't leave the house.

Never leave your home unless there is a separation agreement of your liking. If she want space - tell her to pound sand.

You would be wise to have a second VAR on you if things start getting heated. The woman you've known and THINK you know is not beyond playing dirty and goading you so that the cops will force you out. (another reason the 180 is so very valuable to you).


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## TomO (May 16, 2013)

Wanted to thank everyone for the good advice on here. Going to implement some of it today and tomorrow. I am starting to realize in my heart and soul that this is over and we are just going through the motions right now I think mainly because of our daughter. 

Going to introdcue some shock value tonight. and start the 180 today as well. I'll keep you all posted on how things go.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Sorry Tom. 

I think you are taking the right approach. You still need to investigate the OM and find out what kind of scum he is. You may find out he's married, divorced, etc. Check into his background and see if he has a criminal record. The fact that he is in security doesn't mean anything. Check him out on publicdata dot com to see if he has civil or criminal proceedings. You need to protect your daughter in case he becomes a part of her life. 

You may want to expose the affair if you think she will spin the tale that "you both agreed that things weren't working out" or worse that you were a bad husband and abusive, controlling. It's not uncommon for a WW to rewrite marital history to make herself look better or worse a victim. 

If you don't think she's that kind of woman then just let it go and proceed with 180. Polite but cold and dark. No convos about anything but your daughter and finances. 

See a lawyer as soon as you can and protect your assets. Again 
Don't leave your home - regardless of what she says. She can sleep on the couch if she wants but you ain't goin' nowhere!


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## firefly789 (Apr 9, 2013)

So sorry you are here. Of course she is cheating. I hope you do some counseling to see how to minimize this for your 8 yo D. She is not only cheating on you, but also D. I hope you are contacting a lawyer to find out your custody rights.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

firefly789 said:


> So sorry you are here. Of course she is cheating. I hope you do some counseling to see how to minimize this for your 8 yo D. She is not only cheating on you, but also D. I hope you are contacting a lawyer to find out your custody rights.


Contacting a atty. is not only in your best interest, but a tactic that shows her you will not tolorate this and how serious this is in possibly ending the marriage due to *her* actions!

Filing for divorce is not the same as finalizing a divorce...so keep that in mind.

Again a tactic that shows her you are confident enough to let her go and no longer "control" her...if you know what I mean?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

the guy said:


> Contacting a atty. is not only in your best interest, but a tactic that shows her you will not tolorate this and how serious this is in possibly ending the marriage due to *her* actions!
> 
> Filing for divorce is not the same as finalizing a divorce...so keep that in mind.
> 
> Again a tactic that shows her you are confident enough to let her go and no longer "control" her...if you know what I mean?


Serve her at work she will get the message.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

TomO said:


> Wanted to thank everyone for the good advice on here. Going to implement some of it today and tomorrow. I am starting to realize in my heart and soul that this is over and we are just going through the motions right now I think mainly because of our daughter.
> 
> Going to introdcue some shock value tonight. and start the 180 today as well. I'll keep you all posted on how things go.


Keep in mind , as your heart and soul direct you on your path, this is no longer about her, but you being emotionally healthy for you and your kid.

Her betrayal is all on her, what you do from here on out is for you and the boundries you have...the walls you put up to protect you from additional emotional torture that limit you you in being the best you can be.

In short, you have to move on..it will be up to your old lady to keep up and deal with the consequences that come her way. You have to take control of you and how you want to be as an individual and as a father....

As far as being a husband, she phucket that up and it will be her choice to fix this or not! Just like it will be your choice to stand up as stop being defining by your chick sh1t!

From were I'm sitting she is the one that needs to do the heavy lifting to keep her marriage...or lets say...recommit to a new relationship with the same man that can be respected/command respect.


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## NatureDave (Feb 19, 2013)

> The last week or two has been very rocky between us and we did start to talk but it escalated into and arguement where she got so mad I was accusing her that she said we should just go our seperate ways.


Tom,

It sounds like you are starting to wrap your head around this and see exactly what you are dealing with. Now for some advice on how to go forward.

What I have quoted above is classic method a wayward uses to turn things back on you. She's going to separate because you looked at her phone and don't trust her?? And then you say "I'm sorry, just trying to understand the coincidences"? Sit back and see just how absurd that is...you should be the one kicking her to the curb from cheating on you!

She has gotten you to back off while she continues to get her emotional needs met by the both of you, what we call "cake eating" here.

You have to turn the tables to have any hope of saving your marriage. And here is the hardest part...YOU HAVE TO BE READY TO CUT HER LOOSE TO HAVE ANY CHANCE TO SAVE IT!

Ask anyone here who has been through this...

begging, pleading and crying won't work, 
trying to be patient and understanding doesn't work, 
asking for explanations doesn't work, 
confronting time after time doesn't work, 
stomping and yelling doesn't work, 
threatening doesn't work.

What works is action, and the action is that the current situation is unacceptable and calls for divorce. Not empty words, but actions. Have her served with divorce papers, or at least show her the receipt for your lawyer's retainer.

She will react one of two ways...either she will break down in a short period of time, admit the wrongdoing, and beg for another chance. Then the decision on whether or not to go forward is your's and not her's. 

If you decide to give her another chance, then this is where you make demands like no contact ever again with the OM (including changing jobs), complete transparency with phones, emails, finances, etc. 

The other way she could react is more denial, blame shifting, and the classic "I need time to decide if I want to save it." This attitude means she is not ready to give up the affair and commit to you and that you are in for a world of heartache. If this is the case, you need to just go ahead with the divorce.

Being new to this, I know this course of action sounds very harsh and extreme for what you think may be just a text buddy. Trust us, it's much more than that. 

The marriages that have been saved in this situation are the ones where the betrayed spouse took quick, decisive action.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

TomO said:


> Wanted to thank everyone for the good advice on here. Going to implement some of it today and tomorrow. I am starting to realize in my heart and soul that this is over and we are just going through the motions right now I think mainly because of our daughter.
> 
> Going to introdcue some shock value tonight. and start the 180 today as well. I'll keep you all posted on how things go.


TomO

Go buy a VAR and hide it under the seat of the car.

You will find out quickly enough what is going on.

Do not tell her you have a VAR.

Just get the truth and act upon the information.

No matter what you hear stay cool, calm and dispassionate right now.

Protect yourself, your kid and your assets.

HM64


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

When HM says don't tell her about the VAR, I think what he means is, don't tell her the info you fond on the VAR. Don't ever let on how you find your info. This is paramount. The reason is because once she knows your sources, she knows how to get around them. She knows how to hide things better.

Hope things are going 'well'....as well as can be expected.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Yea we got the classics all lined up here. We got "wrong #" to "it's a friend" to an EA. 

There's a very, very, high chance it'll turn into "we kissed" to "we had sex once" to "okay twice" etc. 

It looks to be following the classic cheater script. 

Nuke it from orbit. I'd take the phone, send the guy a txt and say "I can't wait to have sex again." if he replies "Me neither" you know it's a PA. if he says "Wait what?!" you know it isnt. 

Then i'd tell her family, yours, post it on FB and drag all that nasty crap into the light. 

Blow it up, and walk away from the explosion like you're in an action movie. 

Then? start going out. Go to the gym, reconnect with old friends, do what makes you happy. If she comes crawling back, think hard on whether it's a good idea. 

Personally? For me and you both it's probably best to stay away from these kinds of women. Or at the very least keep a close eye on things and truly make sure you are completely detached now and forever, and are able to leave at any minute. 

Just remember you're in love with who you *thought* was your wife, not who she actually is. If you choose to stay around and she changes her tune maybe you'll want to discover the real her. 

Does she take showers immediately after work on random days? Are there spans of time you two don't have sex? Has she seemed hyper sexual recently? Does she recently seem to thumb her nose at sex with you? Did she start to diet or work out? New underwear or lingerie? 

Regardless of the answers, if she's willing to drop you for some guy she just "txts" then there's a high chance she's in love, or at least thinks so.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Classic cake-eater. 

NatureDave is right, the only chance to save this situation is to have her served. It may not work, but it is the only option you have left.

Happyman is right about the VAR as well. It will be your best method to find out what the real situation is and which direction it is moving after you serve her.


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## TomO (May 16, 2013)

OK Ladies and Gents, 

Need your advice on the most recent conversation. I had started following the 180 to the letter and had pulled way back. And I guess it didn't take too long. She asked me why I wasn't talking to her. I explained my position again and that fact that I said we need MC and she said go our seperate ways.

Her position is she is hurt that I accused her of something and she said that she felt like a piece of garbage because I checked the milage on the car and seperated her laundry out of mine and my daughters. She also felt that I violated her by setting up the online portion of her cell account. She suggested seperate ways because I was convinced that something happened and nothing she could say seemed to change my mind. 

Then out of left field she agreed to go to MC.... To be honest it caught me off guard. She said she feels like what I did to her was wrong. I explained to her I gave her every opportunity to explain anyting she needed to explain, and she gave me nothing, and I did what I did because she gave me nothing. I also mentioned what I did find once I did it did not look good for her. Long story short she feels violated and wants me to appologize so that we can work on the marriage. I told her I can't apologize, and that I will go to MC and take the suggestion of the Counselor. 

Then again out of left field she appologized to me. She said she was sorry if anyting she did made me feel that what I did was my only option. She also said that she never set out to hurt me with anyting she's done with her phone, that she was completely happy with our marriage prior to all this going down. 

Have any of you ever been involved in, or seen a situation wher the signs were wrong? I'm not backing down from my postion or getting soft, I intend to continue the 180 and go through the MC to make sure I have done everything I can on my part. Then if I have to I can walk out with my head held high knowing I've done everyting I can.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

You know Tom when a spouse loves the other spouse they usually will be truthful, convincing and not jump to separating right away.

Did you buy the VAR and put it under her car seat?

You really need to verify what is going on for your own piece of mind.

Do not let her make excuses about any of her actions because she will do it to the MC as well.....


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Yup been there. She is trying to get you off her back for some time with the suggestion for MC after you caught her with her hand in the cookie jar.

Do not agree to go separate ways as she wanted. Hold your ground. Giving her your blessing to go separate ways means you just gave her the visa for her to continue doing something behind your back.

You know that MC won't work if there is someone else in the picture right? You can take her to your first session and mention to the counselor about the other man and emphasize that counseling won't help any until she gets rid of the other person.

So far you have done well. Be very strong and do not give her an inch. 

So far so good.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She is manipulating you big time and trying every manipulation in the book.



> Long story short when she got the new phone with the new code I called her old # and checked her voice mails. I think checked on the new phone as well. There was a guy calling both numbers calling her honey but really nothing else of interest. When I approached her about it (all be it not in the right way) she was furious that I checked on her, and swore that the messages were the result of someone calling the wrong number. I have serious doubts that someone call two wong number (same incomming #) and made that mistake. Come to fine out the guy is an older student at the school and also works part time at security.





> I printed everything and confronted her and asked for an explanation. She was furious and said she hid his number because she didn't want me to see his name after the voicemails and that she needs to talk to him from time to time because of her job. She also said it wasn't her and there must be some kind of mistake with respect to the phone records. I just do not think the phone carrier got this wrong.


She is playing you and trying to guilt you. Don't fall for it. The stronger you are, the better the chances you have at fixing her behavior and marriage. Carriers don't get numbers wrong.


What phone does she have? You can try recovering text messages.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

She seems to be trying to push some of her guilt onto you. Goes as far as wanting you to apologize to her. Don't do it. You've don nothing wrong in checking on her shady behavior.

If she mentions separation again, I would say, "So you want a divorce?".

When she calls what she thinks is your bluff, up the ante.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

MC only works if both parties are into it and have the intention of resolving the issues. Otherwise it's a delaying tactic on the part of one party.

She's only agreeing to MC under duress, so she's not really into it. You'll be wasting time and money. Spend the money instead on 2 VARs.

If she wants the marriage to work, she needs to be transparent. Even then she could take a few things underground.

Put a VAR in her car. Use 2 so that you can rotate them.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Her game is pretty classic.

she's having an affair. 

When you pushed for her to come clean, and started looking she knows you'll find something so she needed time to clean things up and she needed you to back off from any more looking.

So she tries the aggressive, I'm violated and we need to separate tactic. She hoped that at best you'd immediately cave, back off, and let her keep up the affair. At worst, you'd move out and that would give her the freedom to continue cheating.

You didn't react like she wanted, but it did give her time to figure out what you've seen and how she can cover herself in the future. So she's decided to try delaying things by going to MC.

Her goals in MC are:
1. Keep you busy with the MC stuff, so you won't be checking up on her
2. Get the MC to convince you that spying on her. Is wrong and violates her privacy.
3. Give her delaying time so she can continue the affair longer.

The question you need at have answered by an MC when you are choosing one, us do they believe that married partners should have secrets and secret & private relationships with people of the opposite sex? If they say anything other than No, keep shopping for an MC.

You are wasting money on the MC as long as your wife is in the affair.

The MC won't get her to stop the affair.MC can help rebuild a marriage after an affair, but they won't be any help in ending the affair.

You need to use the VARs and any other means you can to get evidence and to destroy the affair.

Exposure when you've hit evidence is a very powerful tool.

Stop talking to her about it. You've given her a chance to cone clean and she's looked you in the eye and told you no, she won't be stopping. The affair is more important to her right now than the marriage.

Never reveal your sources. Never.

She'll likely switch to a burner phone or a texting app that uses data instead of SMS.

She'll also be more careful about being caught. The good news is that most cheaters think their car is a safe and secure spot to conduct their affair.

If you back off she will get complacent thinking she's fooled you, and she'll get sloppy. You need to be watching and gathering evidence.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

I agree that she is probably trying to manipulate you any way she can. First she tried threats, then demand apologies, now she wants to sandbag you with an MC. (Don't just go to ANY MC - be sure they are experienced with infidelity issues). 

Tell her you want to see her phone whenever you ask - she can see yours at will too. (keep the VAR in the car). 

It might be that after discussing it with the "wrong number caller" they decided to cool it until you are under control. 

Be suspicious of a burner phone until you are satisfied that she has recommitted to the marriage. 

Don't apologize to her for trying to protect your marriage. She's supposed to be doing that too. She's not doing that now.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It sounds like you are expecting the MC to get to the bottom of all this and it won't work, often you walk out of the office looking like the bad guy and your wife going back to he boyfriend and telling him it is all under control.

So please start doing your own ivestigation with a VAR, cuz if you get a bad counselor it won't fix anything.

Look, she tells you she felt violated, then she changes tunes and tells you she is sorry.....there hasn't been one thing consistant with her emotions which leads me to really believe some one else is effecting them.

I mean I just keep reading how your old lady takes a stance and when it doesn't go her way she changes her approach...why can't she stick to her guns on the violation issue if infact she did nothing wrong? But no she changes her tune.....

Sorry man, but she wasn't consistant with the phone call deal and she isn't consistant now.

It kind of looks like she is cake eating. Maybe its me, but it looks like she has feeling for two men and is very confused.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

What do you know about the other guy? Is married? Does he have girlfriend? Expose to them asap. Most women wouldn't like it if there H/bf was calling some other woman "honey". And all the texting?

If the OMW/gf blows up and your wife quickly reacts, you'll know that your wife and OM are tight.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If she has a smart phone you can probably retrieve her messages. What brand is it.

It is great she now wants to work on your marriage. But, its like others have posted, this means nothing yet.

Trust but verify.

Buy the VAR at walmart or best buy, the Sony model that costs about 50 dollars is great. Check it out in your car first to get the settings right. Use heavy duty Velcro to hold it under her front seat.

Let her know all this is the way she has acted, lied and lied about lying. Hiding a mans number under a woman's name.

DO NOT LET HER KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HOW YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION AGAIN.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

The VAR is always secret. Chapparal is right of course. VAR's give excellent results.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Nice conversation, but nothing of importance was covered.

*There is only one thing - WHY DID SHE LIE SO MANY TIMES?*

As for her feeling unjustly accused, how would she react after being lied to a half dozen times about a woman you were communicating with? I think being suspicious after what she's done is a NORMAL reaction to her behavior.

Tom, I just re-read your initial post and she said just about every single thing that a cheater says. Even if she's not cheating, which in my opinion is close to zero percent chance that she's not, she still has told you mutliple lies related to this guy and her latest act - that she can't believe you would think she is cheating - after all her lies - is just another thing that cheaters do. Any normal person would at least acknowledge their behavior was suspicious and immediately try to disprove it. Your wife took the opposite tack - the one that cheaters take - and instead hid it even more.

Look at what you posted Tom:

LIE 1. When I approached her about it she said she had begun using her phone for work more and more. 

LIE 2. I noticed marked changes in her behaviors somone who was never on the phone was now on it all the time texting constantly. when I asked her about it she said she was having a hard time with her upcomming b-day and was talking to a close mutual friend who was going through the same thing. _(So the increased use of the phone was not from work after all?)_

LIE 3. I forgot to mention she had asked me to put a code on her phone because of prying eyes at work, only for me to find she had later changed her code to something else and didn't tell me she said given the nature of her conversations with her friend she did not want our 8 year old daughter to see the texts. _(I thought you already had put a code on it - how does a new code change anything except keep YOU out? PLUS, SHE DIDN'T OFFER YOU THE NEW CODE - I guess you were one of the "prying eyes" she wanted to keep out of her secret conversations.) _

LIE 4. Long story short when she got the new phone with the new code I called her old # and checked her voice mails. I think checked on the new phone as well. There was a guy calling both numbers calling her honey but really nothing else of interest. When I approached her about it (albeit not in the right way) she was furious that I checked on her, and *swore that the messages were the result of someone calling the wrong number.* I have serious doubts that someone call two wong number (same incomming #) and made that mistake. *Come to fine out the guy is an older student at the school and also works part time at security.* _(The biggest lie yet, the most incriminating so far, she directly lied about who it was, and it was another guy, which is exactly what you were suspicious of in the first place - yet she can't understand why you would suspect her of anything - give me a break.)_

LIE 5. Well a week or two went by and I still couldn't get over that gut feeling so I observed her and learned the code to her phone. *I found his number saved in the phone as one of her girlfriends. *So I set up her online account so I oculd see just how much calling and texting was going on between them. *turns out quite a lot. 148 to and from texts in the space of 3-4 days* and a handful maybe 4-5 quick calls. _(So, this is the same guy she lied about being a wrong number, now on her phone listed under a girlfriend's name? And now she is all "Ooh, I don't know why you don't trust me, I think we should go our separate ways because your lack of trust in me is SOOOOO irrational?)_

LIE 6. I printed everything and confronted her and asked for an explanation. She was furious and said she hid his number because she didn't want me to see his name after the voicemails and that she needs to talk to him *from time to time * _(like 148 times in a few days?) _ because of her job. She also said it wasn't her and 

LIE 7. *there must be some kind of mistake with respect to the phone records* _(yet she does nothing to call the carrier to get an explanation - but at this point, why believe anything she says? When you find out the phone carrier was right after all, she'll just say she lied because she wanted to talk to the guy but knew you would get mad.) _I just do not think the phone carrier got this wrong. 

she got so mad I was accusing her that she said we should just go our seperate ways. I told her this is not what I wanted, but need to understand all the coincidences that are happening *where this guy is concerned*. _(So, she lies a half dozen times, then thinks the solution is to go your separate ways when you get suspicious? This is a cheater's solution, akin to asking for more "space" so she can carry on the affair more easily without your prying eyes.)_

Tom, how could you even question the legitimacy of your concerns in this situation?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Tom, you discovered messages on both of your wife's phones of from an older student who works as a security guard - both of the messages, he called her "honey." Does this sound normal to you? Assuming your wife is older than this guy, or maybe the same age, do you think he would be calling her "honey"? Then she lies that it was a wrong number. Then you find his number listed in her contacts as a girlfriend's name.

Tom, first, get the voice-activated recorders in place. Even if they have only had a few conversations on the phone that you can see, it is quite likely that they are meeting in your wife's car for lunch hour and after hours.

Next, turn up the heat. Next time your wife talks about her being so hurt by your accusations, tell her you would like to get an outside opinion from your and her family and close friends and see if they think anything sounds suspicious with what is posted above.

Remember this when you go to the marriage counselor, Tom: Trust is always earned. ALWAYS. When people tell you lies, trust erodes. Don't let the counselor tell you that you MUST trust your wife. Tell the counselor that you will begin to trust again when you start to hear the truth again, when you get a story that makes sense again.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

@WK, that was awsome and worth repeating..." trust is earned and once she start being truthful you will regain the trust"...

So don't let this MC session turn into a issue of trust and violations but being honest and facing the infidelity. Often folks get confussed between adultery and infidelity. So even if your old lady isn't banging the OM she sure is on her way and that is the issue at hand. IMHO

At the end of the day her crap just does not add up, I mean its so much easier to keep a story straight when its not a lie...and this is not the case with your old lady.

There are just to many TAM vets here that have been here so damn long that if it looks like a duck and sound like a duck it is a duck.....You know what I mean?

All this second guessing on your part can be eliminated by investigating..for example planting a VAR!!!!!!!!


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## moto (Jan 24, 2013)

TomO said:


> Have any of you ever been involved in, or seen a situation wher the signs were wrong? I'm not backing down from my postion or getting soft, I intend to continue the 180 and go through the MC to make sure I have done everything I can on my part. Then if I have to I can walk out with my head held high knowing I've done everyting I can.


By the sounds of it, she may have you already second guessing yourself already! its normal, I did for so long. 

Don't let your guard down with this EA ( or possible PA), don't do what I did 5 years ago. My Wife convinced me its was nothing and it was *NEVER A P.A.* at first, I have been feeling like a such fool for a while now because I put it under the rug when I found out of the so called EA, just a few months after our wedding, she convinced me it was nothing but an E.A and after 5 years of feeling guilty for thinking I was wrong and it wasn't a PA, she final fessed up to a summer long PA and ended it, just a few weeks before we got married! (I now have a lot/ton of angry issues and feelings that are so FUBAR about everything) And I just wanted to let you know it's a lot worst second guessing yourself about this stuff and to stick to your guns like many have pointed out already.

She is doing something wrong period, loving/faithful married women/men do not act this way. If your wife is serious about going to MC, inform her of what an EA is, this might make her notice the pain she is causing to you and to your family. My wife on the other hand didn't know , that's because she was in a FOG for this OM during the hundreds of phone calls/texts/FB msgs and emails for 4 weeks before it turned into PA! while I was in an other country for 5 months trying to pay for our wedding!

So for now, explain to her this.

Since when do married women/men feel it's okay to hide voice/text/ email messages etc... from their spouse? 

it's not okay! they're doing something they shouldn't being doing!


Good luck and I hope it works out the way you want it to.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

moto said:


> By the sounds of it, she may have you already second guessing yourself already! its normal, I did for so long.
> 
> Don't let your guard down with this EA ( or possible PA), don't do what I did 5 years ago. My Wife convinced me its was nothing and it was *NEVER A P.A.* at first, I have been feeling like a such fool for a while now because I put it under the rug when I found out of the so called EA, just a few months after our wedding, she convinced me it was nothing but an E.A and after 5 years of feeling guilty for thinking I was wrong and it wasn't a PA,*she final fessed up to a summer long PA and ended it, just a few weeks before we got married! * (I now have a lot/ton of angry issues and feelings that are so FUBAR about everything) And I just wanted to let you know it's a lot worst second guessing yourself about this stuff and to stick to your guns like many have pointed out already.
> 
> ...


WTF .And you are still married?


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## moto (Jan 24, 2013)

Yes, its a very long story (3 kids, health issues and money issues) and one day, I'll spend a few hours explaining the "train wreck of a marriage at times" when my feeling upto it.

But for now, let get the OP up to speed and I hope the OP wife is just having a EA.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

moto said:


> Yes, its a very long story (3 kids, health issues and money issues) and one day, I'll spend a few hours explaining the "train wreck of a marriage at times" when my feeling upto it.
> 
> But for now, let get the OP up to speed and I hope the OP wife is just having a EA.


Sorry i should have included this, you wrote in you´re first post..Hence the WTF are you still married Question.

*And almost the entire wedding party (8 people) including the wedding planner!!! knew of the affair, but myself and my best man and one other girl. 

All I think about is everyone knew about the PA when I said "I do" that's worst day of my life when I look back on it.*


BTW there is no reason for you to explain any thing.I´m sorry
just got so effing stunned over how effed up you´re "wife"
action´s..Hence my WTF


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

TomO said:


> Then again out of left field she appologized to me. She said she was sorry if anyting she did made me feel that what I did was my only option. She also said that she never set out to hurt me with anyting she's done with her phone, that she was completely happy with our marriage prior to all this going down.


 This is a fake appolgy where she does not admit to doing anything wrong and does not take responsibility for her actions. She is sorry that you are bothered by her actions but admits to nothing. This is right out of the cheaters handbook and you should not treat it as a real apology. Regardless of anything else, she is for a fact lying to you and she needs to acknowledge that this is wrong. 

The lies are as follows. She at first told you that the other man (OM) leaving voice messages where he called her by an affectionate name were errors and that she did not know him, never mind that the OM left these messages on both of her phone numbers; this was a lie as she now admits that she knows the OM from work and that they were work related calls. She also claims that the phone records from the phone company of her many communications with this OM was wrong as there "must be some kind of mistake"; saying that the phone company is falsely showing her communicating with the other man is an obvious bold face lie, that she has a lot of nerve to expect you to accept. Her response to you catching her is also right out of the cheaters handbook; lie and act outraged that the spouse would dare spy on you. To a cheater, you spying is a divorce-able offense worse than cheating; this is another lie as in truth even they do not really believe this. Tell her that you did nothing wrong and that all that you are doing is trying to protect your marraige. 

Call her on all of her lies. Tell her that her lying about her communications with this OM is why you know that she is doing something wrong. If she had nothing to hide, she would not be hiding her relationship with this OM. Lying and having secret relationships with OM is wrong in and of itself. Lying has no place in a marraige. Also tell her that accept for when you are in the bathroom, there is no privacy in a healthy marraige and that going forward you are demanding full transpancy in your marraige. Full transpancy includes both of you sharing full access to all phones and sharing all passwords without complaint. Finally you must tell her that you want her to end all non-work related contact with this OM as she is having at least and emotinal affair with this OM.

Affairs do not end without a fight. You cannot nice your way out of her affair. You must be willing to end the marraige to have a chance at having a real marraige. If she is not already in too deep, she will agree to your reasonable demands. If she fights you on this, you must be willing to file for divorce and mean it. Divorce takes time and you can always change your mind if she give you good reason to. I am sorry that you are here. Good luck and be well.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Well Tom, your BIGGEST problem was anytime you got a shread of questionable evidence you confronted her. And because the evidence wasn't concrete, it was easily explained away by her. 

The ONLY thing you did was to let her know that you are on to her. The ONLY thing you did was to teach her how to hide the affair better. And now, you have her on guard. She's constantly looking over her shoulder and retracing her steps. She knows you're on the lookout.

Now, she's trying to scare you with divorce, then backed off because she saw you weren't scared. If she would have gone through with her threat, she knows people would have asked you what happened and she knows you would have exposed her and she would rather not have explain to a hundred people that you're bat sh*t crazy; and yet, trying to justify and hide her new boyfriend.

Someone already suggested several times to get a voice activated recorder (VAR) and go to the hardware store. Buy some heavy duty velcro and secure it under the drivers seat. Most cheaters do most of their communicating while driving. You can also purchase a GPS tracker and hide it in the car. The wheel well of the spare tire is usually a good spot (unless she gets a flat). You can track her movements throughout the day on the computer. 

And finally, if she has an iphone and used the home computer to charge it, chances are that phone sync'd up with the computer. Therefore, there's a hidden file on that computer that has the texted conversations of that phone stored in it. All you would have to do is download an iphone file extractor to put up this file on the computer to view it.

While you are collecting evidence, you need to play the clueless idiot! DO NOT CONFRONT UNTIL YOU HAVE THAT SMOKING GUN!! If you find anything, post about it here first and see if people would agree that, that piece of evidence is good or not. 

What might work in your favor is going to MC. If she feels that you are being pacified into believing that the both of you are working on the marriage, it might get you to relax and not look so hard, therefore, she'll be able to continue her affair without you looking into it. I've seen countless time where a couple are in MC while he or she continued the affair.


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## Reluctant_Doubter (Apr 11, 2013)

TomO said:


> Have any of you ever been involved in, or seen a situation wher the signs were wrong?


Maybe. My story is elsewhere. Several forum members (all well meaning) passed judgment that my wife was cheating on me. 

I made some mistakes in the early stages - declaring my hand too early etc. But I also implemented many of the recommendations provided via this forum. I got access to all of her (known) electronics. I got passwords to all known accounts and emails. I used a VAR and a GPS tracker over a period of weeks.

None of this turned up anything. This at least gave me some hope.

Of course she may have just covered her tracks very very well, but on the other hand, she may have been telling me the truth - that she had become disengaged from the relationship but was having neither an EA nor PA and had never done so.

That left me with a choice - accept the possibility that she MAY have been unfaithful but in the absence of proof allow for the doubt and then decide whether or not the marriage was worth saving.

I know as a minimum that she was disrespecting me and being untruthful to some extent. It seems you know that of your wife. 

I chose the latter and then looked to see how my wife would react. I will not say it has been easy, but she has been fully cooperative. It took several weeks of discussions - sometimes arguments - and a period in which I applied many elements of the 180 (talked about widely in this forum), but since the final climactic argument when she eventually realized that the marriage really was about to end, she has not put a foot wrong and has ended all attempts to justify her previous (but still - she maintains - non-adulterous) behaviors.

I remain deeply hurt, tender, on guard and non-trusting. I doubt any of that will be fixed quickly. We are left with working on the problems that lead to her known behaviors and rebuilding the marriage. In particular we need to work on what each sees as mutually acceptable in terms of where the boundaries are between ourselves and friends and contacts of the opposite sex.

Will this be successful? Too soon to say. Do I want it to succeed? Very much - and she is doing a great job of making me believe that she wants it to succeed as well.

So to your point - you have evidence of a likely EA. You need to look for other evidence. If you look carefully (as I did) but find no smoking gun, then you still do not have proof of her innocence, but you at least have hope. You then have to decide whether the damage done so far is terminal to the relationship.

If you decide to stick with it, you need her continuous cooperation and mutual communication. And you need to agree on what constitutes stepping over the line in any contact with any member of the opposite sex outside the marriage.


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