# Middle aged husband and teenager girls



## rockoko (Oct 15, 2014)

Hello. I am confused and frustrated of why I've caught my husband staring at very young girls (late teens or early twenty's) the last year or so. He's 42, handsome, successful. He looked at these girls while talking to me, provided it was a few seconds glance, it was more than one glance at each occasion. I was outraged and embarrassed. I told him that I found men, especially married men that did that to me before creepy and I always feel bad for the wife. It's a look sure, harmless but it's so disrespectfully to the marriage and the wife. I asked where this is coming from and where is it going? He claimed he's innocent, that he didn't have bad thoughts and didn't mean to hurt me. I believed first look is normal and innocent, but after 4 looks, his mind went to something else and no longer just a look. I caught him twice the last 6 months when we're out together; he said it's only twice a year and it's nothing and I am blowing thing out of control. I believe this is happening for a reason, a deep desire that he's hiding from me since he did not do this before. I also think it's possible that he no longer finds me attractive and old (I am 8 years older). I don't feel good about myself and I told him this. Like usual, when things bothers me that was caused by him, he turned the table and make it about him because he said I can't control myself. Now he's locking up and and said he wants to be alone. We don't have the best marriage, old issues never got resolved from 7 years ago. I pushed him for a reason because I think this could be a beginning of more to come and I want to know to prepare myself. I know he will never admit to anything that would make him the "bad guy". My relationship with him is normal, plain when we don't have issues. Sex life is below normal. We have a 10 year old little boy that's the strongest bond between us. I know most of you will say it's nothing, but what I am looking for is the root of the issue why he would do this lately. I can't not talk to him since I am the type that want to get to the bottom of things and he's would just shut down, or make it my fault.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

News flash... Guys look at women. Guys in relationships that are "intimacy challenged" look more often. Guys will lie about looking at women or porn to stay out of trouble. 

However... Smart guys or guys who care about how their women feel don't get caught looking...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

I think you're making too much out of it and he's shuting down. 

He's just looking because it's natural to give a quick glance at a pretty girl. The girls are not underage, they are woman. 

Now it's a different story if the girls are 15,16,17. 

Why is sex below normal? 1x a week? 1x a month?

What were unresolved issues from the past?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

If he is just glancing I don't see a big problem.
But if you think he has stepped out in the past then that is another story.
Need more info please.


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## BWBill (Jan 30, 2013)

Don't know enough about your husband or you to give an opinion, but some things to think about:

There's a difference between glancing and staring. Sometimes we glance before we know what we're doing. Staring, however is generally inappropriate.

Is it only young girls, or is that what you're focusing on? It could be disturbing if he's looking at teenagers but not twenty/thirty somethings. 

Sounds like you're disappointed in your marriage and sensitive about your age (or age difference). Could that be coloring your view of your husband's actions?


Again, I don't know you well enough to opine, just offering some things to think about.


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## rockoko (Oct 15, 2014)

I need no news flash. I was raised old school and traditional, I know a lot of subjects are acceptable now a day. I have problems with porn and problems that my husband would look at girls in front of me. He did have a on-line relationship with a college girl a couple years back. He recruited her thru linkedin for a project that lasted 8 months, it ends because I discovered it and had to go through extreme to make him see it's inappropriate. She created a icon for his business and he used our initials, that was the only thing that gave me comfort, my initial was included. An icon that took 8 months! It only ended because I had to make it a big deal. It's not that I made things out of nothing. If he would told me he recruited her for the job I wouldn't mind, or ask for my input since it's our business logo. He hid the relationship for 8 months and the girl went to a college where he used to work, 200 miles a way. Phone calls, text and Skype. He also traveled a lot during that time but claim he did not cheat. I have problems trusting him since. Yes PBEAR, is did discovered 7 years ago he was a porn user and yes he did lie, he tried to lie but the evidence was on my laptop. That was the biggest break in this relationship, it's where the trouble started and my trust and respect for him diminished. We are not the same since.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

have you asked him to take a polygraph about that girl? The cheating and the timing is suspicious isn't it. 

I think until you resolve that particular question you'll never be able to deal with other day to day trust related issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

PBear said:


> News flash... Guys look at women. Guys in relationships that are "intimacy challenged" look more often. Guys will lie about looking at women or porn to stay out of trouble.
> 
> However... Smart guys or guys who care about how their women feel don't get caught looking...
> 
> ...


Lucky guys have women who point out the particularly sweet eye candy that they may have missed.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

We can only comment on what you tell us. If you hold back relevant details, you won't get relevant responses. 

So what's your question? He says he can't control himself on something that's apparently a deal breaker in a marriage that "isn't the best". He possibly cheated on you years ago. You can't force him to change his behavior or attitude. So given that, do you want to continue the relationship?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

rockoko said:


> I believe this is happening for a reason.


yes my dear, its called a penis. Most guys have them. :rofl:

looking at other women, especially young nubile buxom women dressed in sexy new fashions and high heels.....mmmm only 5 looks?? My tongue would be dragging pavement.

Give your poor hubby a break and ignore it. just pretend you do not see him doing it.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

murphy5 said:


> looking at other women, especially young nubile buxom women dressed in sexy new fashions and high heels.....mmmm only 5 looks?? My tongue would be dragging pavement.


Sometimes we go to local fairs. Filled with petite young girls dressed in their skimpy and slu*ty outfits with the short shorts and the boobs hanging out. After an evening of that my neck hurts, and it's not from the spinning rides, it's from getting repeatedly smacked in the back of the head by my girlfriend. She's a bit more understanding though. I say something like "well they WANT to be checked out, that's why they dress like that!? She says "they dress like that to attract other teenage boys not old men like you!" 

She's got a point.



rockoko said:


> I also think it's possible that he no longer finds me attractive and old (I am 8 years older).


You being 8 yrs older is a problem. Keep yourself in shape, that's all I can tell you. Maybe try putting your hair in pigtails with a bow, and wear a plaid skirt. Maybe a sweater with a big letter on it for good measure.



rockoko said:


> I don't feel good about myself and I told him this.


Why don't you feel good about yourself? Have you gained weight? It's not necessarily his fault that you have poor self esteem. 



rockoko said:


> I know most of you will say it's nothing


Why do you say "I know most of you will say it's nothing"? Why not just put your story out there and let people answer however they may? 



rockoko said:


> What I am looking for is the root of the issue why he would do this lately.


If he's into young girls it didn't just start happening lately. You just started picking up on it, that's all. 



rockoko said:


> Hello. I am confused and frustrated of why I've caught my husband staring at very young girls (late teens or early twenty's)


I wouldn't quantify that as "very young girls". More like "young girls". Very young girls are more like 13-16.



rockoko said:


> He claimed he's innocent, that he didn't have bad thoughts and didn't mean to hurt me.


Yeah right. I don't have "bad thoughts" either. My head just sort of naturally spins in all those different directions all by itself.



NobodySpecial said:


> Lucky guys have women who point out the particularly sweet eye candy that they may have missed.


I know, right? 

Her: "I bet you think SHE'S hot, don't you?"

Me: Where? Oh, her.. yeah she qualifies.

Her: "I bet you'd want to do a threesome with her, wouldn't you?"

Me: "I love you"


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I have a 19 year old daughter. Men of all ages look at her. I'm actually kind of amused by it. One time we were at Trader Joes and I decided to just kind of hang back and watch. I lost count of the head turns and double takes. The males employees were the worst though. She was oblivious. When we left she says, "I should get a job here." Umm, yeah, no.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> I have a 19 year old daughter. Men of all ages look at her. I'm actually kind of amused by it. One time we were at Trader Joes and I decided to just kind of hang back and watch. I lost count of the head turns and double takes. The males employees were the worst though. She was oblivious. When we left she says, "I should get a job here." Umm, yeah, no.


What's the odds that you're talking about the Trader Joe store by my house?

I need to do some grocery shopping


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> I have a 19 year old daughter. Men of all ages look at her. I'm actually kind of amused by it. One time we were at Trader Joes and I decided to just kind of hang back and watch. I lost count of the head turns and double takes. The males employees were the worst though. She was oblivious. When we left she says, "I should get a job here." Umm, yeah, no.


This just makes me want to check YOU out ! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

Newflash Rocoko!! All men, young, old, middle aged, and even some gay men LOVE admiring sexy teen girls. Its the way we are wired by God. We love adoring the handiwork of Jesus...and for men, girls are the most beautiful thing in the whole universe.

Looking does not make us perverts, nor pedophiles, nor abnormal. It means that we are normal males.

Now having said that, we men must be mindful not to check teens out while around our wives, as the wife might get the wrong idea.

And you should have thought of this before you married a man 8 years your senior...remember Demi Moore and Aston Kucher?!?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

WalterWhite said:


> Newflash Rocoko!! All men, young, old, middle aged, and even some gay men LOVE admiring sexy teen girls. Its the way we are wired by God. We love adoring the handiwork of Jesus...and for men, girls are the most beautiful thing in the whole universe.
> 
> Looking does not make us perverts, nor pedophiles, nor abnormal. It means that we are normal males.
> 
> ...


Ummmm, that would be a man 8 years her junior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> I have a 19 year old daughter. Men of all ages look at her. I'm actually kind of amused by it. One time we were at Trader Joes and I decided to just kind of hang back and watch. I lost count of the head turns and double takes. The males employees were the worst though. She was oblivious. When we left she says, "I should get a job here." Umm, yeah, no.


:rofl:
My d is going to be 16 and the wolves stare at her.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

WalterWhite said:


> Newflash Rocoko!! All men, young, old, middle aged, and even some gay men LOVE admiring sexy teen girls. Its the way we are wired by God. We love adoring the handiwork of Jesus...and for men, girls are the most beautiful thing in the whole universe.
> 
> Looking does not make us perverts, nor pedophiles, nor abnormal. It means that we are normal males.
> 
> ...


Leaving all the god and jesus rubbish aside, just wanted to say that while you are busy being a dirty old man, the teens are laughing at you behind your back or even to your face like my friends and I used too. Sorry but for a young girl/woman there is nothing quite as ugly as an old man perving on her.

Go ahead and glance but if you think that god gave you the right to be a pervert then that is way creepy.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

If you think something was going on during those 8 months then polygraph or at least the threat of one.


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## rockoko (Oct 15, 2014)

Walter White:
Please do not refer to God so casually. God made men in his image. So this is suppose to be God's image? Beauty is to be admired, agreed. But when you're sitting and talking to your wife and your eyes went to the direction of another girl, is it acceptable for a man to do so? If you must blame God for the way men are wired, you then did not read the rest of the bible "If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."

If he was the man he is today when I met him, there would be absolutely no union. He had qualities that I did not find in men my age or older and that won my heart. Well, maybe we will go down the same way as Demi and Aston.


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## tonedef (Aug 7, 2014)

I think everyone is giving her a hard time. Yes men look, I get it, but he doesn't have to make it obvious. You're suppose to make your spouse feel like they are the only one there. Instead of checking your spouse out, you are putting your focus on someone who could care less. Its rude. You are just more sensitive to it because you are older. He should be making a point to make YOU feel better about yourself. I really wish I had some advice. Just work on yourself. You can't change him but you can change yourself and do things to make you feel better about yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

To be honest. This summer I saw these two girls, maybe 19-21 and the bathing suits they were wearing didn't cover a great deal and I looked. Oh boy I looked but at the same time I wondered how they could be comfortable with most of the bottom of the suit stuck in their ass's. Hell you can't help but to look.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

6301 said:


> To be honest. This summer I saw these two girls, maybe 19-21 and the bathing suits they were wearing didn't cover a great deal and I looked. Oh boy I looked but at the same time I wondered how they could be comfortable with most of the bottom of the suit stuck in their ass's. Hell you can't help but to look.


I see women walking around in jeans that are so tight I wonder if it took an hour for them to get in.
End t/jack.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

rockoko said:


> I don't feel good about myself


There's your real issue.

Men look. If you marry a man, expect his eyes to pick up attractive women around him.

Your issue isn't your perfectly normal husband. It's your low self esteem. Deal with that and you won't care about the split second your husband's eyes pick up a hot young woman.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Lady,

I'm not sure why you don't feel good about yourself. I've dated some of the most amazing mid to late 40 ladies that could run circles of sexy around those young 20 year olds. Hell, I'd date some of those hot 50 year olds too if I could meet one (and found one that likes McDonalds)



Yeah. Young girls are cute. But the whole mature mindset just fills in the rest, making it super sexy.

Don't rely upon your husband to make you feel good. You need to do that yourself. Eat well. Take care of yourself. And you will leak the sexy.

He either gets on board and notices the prize he has, or he doesn't.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

alphaomega said:


> Lady,
> 
> I'm not sure why you don't feel good about yourself. I've dated some of the most amazing mid to late 40 ladies that could run circles of sexy around those young 20 year olds. Hell, I'd date some of those hot 50 year olds too if I could meet one (and found one that likes McDonalds)
> 
> ...


Eh...
"Happy Meal"?:smthumbup:


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

alphaomega said:


> Lady,
> 
> I'm not sure why you don't feel good about yourself. I've dated some of the most amazing mid to late 40 ladies that could run circles of sexy around those young 20 year olds. Hell, I'd date some of those hot 50 year olds too if I could meet one (and found one that likes McDonalds)
> 
> ...


That being said, there is a lot wrong with the way this guy is acting. Guys, you can look all you want, but ask yourself this... How does it make you feel about your own situation? I found that my roving eye was about the dissatisfaction that I was feeling... with me, with my partner, etc. 

I worked on me and I found a partner who was more suitable to me. Of course there will always be more attractive women around- just as there will be more attractive men for her to look at- I just try not to look now, and when I do find myself looking I try to identify what it is inside of me which is lacking.

I also am more attuned to the fact that it is my wife who will be there for me, and her feelings Are more important than getting a look at some other woman. Now, if I can just get her to stop pointing out all the pretty women. She is not jealous in the slightest, but then I give her no reason to be...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Well,

My eyes roamed because I was in a sexless marriage. So I'd glance at women, fantasizing about the awesome monkey fun sex I could be having.

Now...well...I just glance at women to fantasize about the awesome monkey fun sex I could be having.

Giggidy.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Except glancing a the young 20 girls. There just comes an age when anyone under 25 all look like they are floating around 16 years old. And that's just creepy. The guy with the hair where the silver is starting to overtake the rest....

Yeah. There comes an age where you run the fine line of turning into the "creepy" guy.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
my wife and I make a joke out of this. I'll catch her looking at an attractive waiter and tease her about it. (Actually I'm lying, I don't "catch her", I know what she likes and assume - and I'm usually right). I'm good at looking without moving my head - but I'm not hiding anything, its just a game.

My wife knows I like staring at her. If she is wearing something revealing (as she often does in the evening) she'll tell me "I'm going upstairs now, do you want to watch...". She got me a bathrobe that has a habit of falling open by itself. When it wore out she got me another 


People look at other attractive people. Its much better to just be amused then to try to force them to pretend that they don't find anyone else interesting. The goal is not for your partner to lack interest in others, but for them to be interested in you.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Interesting to note...gay men of all ages (including super old) have the same type of eye for very young men/boys.

This fact seems to creep a lot of straight men out.

Yet straight men are the ones who claim it is not creepy for them to have an eye for very young girls/women.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

I used to be like that all the time. Nowadays my wife keeps me worn out in the bedroom and I don't do it anymore.

The ball is now in your court.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

lenzi said:


> You being 8 yrs older is a problem. Keep yourself in shape, that's all I can tell you. Maybe try putting your hair in pigtails with a bow, and wear a plaid skirt. Maybe a sweater with a big letter on it for good measure.


roll play in marriage is an excellent way to keep a spouse horny and interested. Not every time, but maybe once a week. 

In your case, yes, try dressing up like a HS girl, bobby sox, white panties, plaid mini skirt, maybe one of those big lollipops with the color swirls. Let him "be your first time". 

See if THAT gets him interested!


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

tonedef said:


> I think everyone is giving her a hard time. Yes men look, I get it, but he doesn't have to make it obvious.


the point made by the OP is that he is NOT making it obvious. He is stealing a glimpse and trying to not get caught. SHE is the one flipping out about it.

And Jaysus, what does this have to do with religion?? ALL men look at attractive women. I get the biggest laugh when these holier-than-thou ultra-religious are caught with teenage prostitutes and have to give up their pastorship! Hypocrisy. Denying your bodies needs is denying God's plan for us. That does not mean you have to give in to any temptation! That means you do NOT treat your body's normal sexual reactions as "dirty" or "sin". Gawd, what a perverted view of mankind!


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

It was the number of looks. She saw it so how is that not making it obvious?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

PBear said:


> News flash... Guys look at women. Guys in relationships that are "intimacy challenged" look more often. Guys will lie about looking at women or porn to stay out of trouble.
> 
> However... Smart guys or guys who care about how their women feel don't get caught looking...
> 
> ...


OR simply look when the wife is not around. I do the blinders thing when with my wife. Ive also learned how to be subtle when she is not around.

Gawking is rude. Gawking with your wife next to you is rude, disrespectful, and stupid.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

sparkyjim said:


> That being said, there is a lot wrong with the way this guy is acting.


I'd like to point out that the OP said she caught her husband glancing at younger women for a "few seconds" only "twice [in] the last six months".

You know what's wrong with her husband? He has a penis.


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## rockoko (Oct 15, 2014)

I am not the average 50 year old woman. I am not over weight (size zero) or ugly. I still get looks when I am in public. It happened a couple months ago when we were at a restaurant and I saw an old men sticking his tongue out at me, then he started rubbing his private part. I told my husband about it, he confronted the guy and the restaurant owner ended up calling the cop to chase him out. I was one of those young girls that got checked out by older, creepy men even indecent proposals from some of them. I found it's disgusting, disrespectful and felt bad for their wives, now I am one of those wives. I used to get one whistle a day in high school. I've been in other relationships and many dates. No one ever glanced at another girl while they were with me. I am confident with myself and always felt good about myself in my past relationships. 

A few men and women here offered valid supports and I thank you. I like to know there are men out there that respect their wives enough to put the creepy, meaningless look a side for the sake of their other half. It's not flattering for a young girl to see a married man check her out, at least, it was not for me. Again, beauty is hard to resist as I sometimes find a certain men so handsome, but my eyes would never drift towards their directions while my husband is sitting in front of me. It's not worth it for a look at something that's just passing by.

One person posted here that he found the source of his wandering eyes, thank you for being honest; that is what I am trying to get out of him. I want the truth even if it's hard to take, from there we can decide if it's a problem we can tackle or it's a bigger problem to call it quit. This will not be done with him since now he made it my problem for calling out his bad behavior instead of what he did wrong to upset me. No I will not dress up like a teenager to entertain him and the person who kept insisting I have him take a polygraph for the Linkedin relationship, he will not and I don't need him to. I talked to the girl and saw a couple of their text messages. The point of that is the trust was violated by him not telling me about her, he did not sleep with her.

We all got married because we love that person, yet a lot of us are here looking for answers. Most of us here are hurt by the other person that is suppose to love us but can't offer comfort when they offended us. What is love now a day?


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

lenzi said:


> You being 8 yrs older is a problem. Keep yourself in shape, that's all I can tell you. Maybe try putting your hair in pigtails with a bow, and wear a plaid skirt. Maybe a sweater with a big letter on it for good measure.


Better still, feel free let your head spin for all those shirtless stallions. There are tons of gorgeous hot boys out there, and as you noted, women too have great appreciation for beauty.

Way more fun to gander on your own terms than to humiliate yourself competing for his attention. You may even find some that truly appreciate *you.*


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

rockoko said:


> I am not the average 50 year old woman. I am not over weight (size zero) or ugly. I still get looks when I am in public. It happened a couple months ago when we were at a restaurant and I saw an old men sticking his tongue out at me, then he started rubbing his private part. I told my husband about it, he confronted the guy and the restaurant owner ended up calling the cop to chase him out. I was one of those young girls that got checked out by older, creepy men even indecent proposals from some of them. I found it's disgusting, disrespectful and felt bad for their wives, now I am one of those wives.


This is completely irrelevant to your husband checking out young girls, no clue why you posted it. 



rockoko said:


> I used to get one whistle a day in high school. I've been in other relationships and many dates. No one ever glanced at another girl while they were with me. I am confident with myself and always felt good about myself in my past relationships.


I guess it's so we all know you're attractive and your husband checking out young women has nothing to do with you and the shape you're in? Or that you've been in relationships where guys don't check out other women therefore your husband is deficient in some way? Lots of guys look, some guys don't, most likely the guys that don't look are just more discreete about it.

If you don't like him looking, and it's a dealbreaker, then show him the door. Doesn't matter what other guys do. 

I get it, you feel disgusted, it's creepy, whatever. Do you think that guys who check out women, young or old, could give a rat's ass about what the woman thinks about being checked out? Truth be told, the ones that dress up all skanky showing off their boobs, their legs, their a$$ are doing it BECAUSE they want the attention. Why else would they do it?



rockoko said:


> I like to know there are men out there that respect their wives enough to put the creepy, meaningless look a side for the sake of their other half.


Then go find one of them. Obviously your husband isn't one of them and he never is going to be one of them. You can try to modify his behavior, he might try to appease you by being more discrete, but he'll still look, and he'll still fantasize and that's never going to change no matter how much you complain about it and say how much it bothers you and how there are other men that don't do it.




rockoko said:


> It's not flattering for a young girl to see a married man check her out, at least, it was not for me. Again, beauty is hard to resist as I sometimes find a certain men so handsome, but my eyes would never drift towards their directions while my husband is sitting in front of me. It's not worth it for a look at something that's just passing by.


Again, it's irrelevant what you think. It's like saying you don't do drugs because it's not worth the health risks. A drug addict will disagree with you and keep doing the drugs. 




rockoko said:


> I want the truth even if it's hard to take, from there we can decide if it's a problem we can tackle or it's a bigger problem to call it quit.


The truth is he enjoys checking out young women, he does have "bad thoughts" as you put it and whether or not he's honest with you or not doesn't change a thing. The truth is there, it's right on the table in front of you and if you can't deal with it then call it quits and stop complaining about his bad behavior because it's not going to change.



rockoko said:


> No I will not dress up like a teenager to entertain him


That was said tongue in cheek. It won't solve anything.




rockoko said:


> The point of that is the trust was violated by him not telling me about her, he did not sleep with her.


That's a totally different issue, it's deceptive and a complete breach of trust and is another significant problem. If he's unwilling to address these issues with you then you've got nothing left to work on. 




rockoko said:


> What is love now a day?


Love is really a meaningless term, it's got so many interpretations and definitions. You see it on these boards all the time. "She cheated on me but she loves me!" "He beats the crap out of me and doesn't give me any money but he loves me!" Yeah right.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Don't know why the Bible was brought up but since it was, many people accept that Mary and Joseph were married when Mary was only 14. As was common with many marriages back then - many of which were arranged before the girl ever entered puberty, and married soon after her first period. 

Once a woman goes through puberty - even as a child/teen, once you develop breasts, the hips widen and other signs of sexual maturity become obvious men will look. I blame biology and our ingrained desire to reproduce. Saying a man finds a teenager attractive goes against the Bible would not be accurate as back then many young teenage women were married off and the marriages were probably consummated. Today we live longer, it's not necessary and is frowned upon for children to get married so young. 

Also, while there are passages such as he who so much as looks at a women with lust has committed adultery, there are also plenty that encourage a free and exciting marital sex life so as to prevent infidelity and extramarital sex. So it was expected that the temptation would be there.

The bigger issue here is not that your husband looks at women. It's a trust issue from seven years ago and that your marriage is not as strong right now or intimate as it should be. If it was rock solid as I'm assuming it once was, this would probably not be an issue or as big of one for you. 

The second thing is also not that he looks but how long. Men look, women look but there is a difference between a passing glance at something or someone shiny and gawking and drooling. The latter is more disrespectful than the former.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

EH, I would be grossed out if I saw H staring at a teen girl. Now that he's older they all just look like someone who could be his daughter. 

He doesn't even look at hot women, at least around me. I'll see one and watch to see if he notices and he never looks or stares. Even when women obviously flirt with him he doesn't act like he gives a crap. IMO it would be just disrespectful if he didn't. 

Staring/looking is a choice. It's not something you HAVE to do. I hate when people think having a penis gives someone a free pass to act like a creep... cause they can't help themselves... they're men


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Interesting to note...gay men of all ages (including super old) have the same type of eye for very young men/boys.
> 
> This fact seems to creep a lot of straight men out.
> 
> Yet straight men are the ones who claim it is not creepy for them to have an eye for very young girls/women.


You are making an incredible amount of generalizations about men in this post, regardless of sexuality.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Miss Taken said:


> Saying a man finds a teenager attractive goes against the Bible would not be accurate as back then many young teenage women were married off and the marriages were probably consummated.


Well the Bible is interpreted however the reader wants it to be. I mean, look at the headlines this week. It's clearly stated in the Bible that homosexuality is a SIN, but suddenly it's ok with the Church. Why? Because they need the gays to fill the collection plates, that's why.



Miss Taken said:


> The bigger issue here is not that your husband looks at women. It's a trust issue from seven years ago and that your marriage is not as strong right now or intimate as it should be. If it was rock solid as I'm assuming it once was, this would probably not be an issue or as big of one for you.


Excellent point, that I expect the Op to refute. 



Miss Taken said:


> The second thing is also not that he looks but how long. Men look, women look but there is a difference between a passing glance at something or someone shiny and gawking and drooling. The latter is more disrespectful than the former.


Another great point, but could you clarify for me an approximate time frame for the cutoff between a passing glance and gawking and drooling so I can appropriately tailor my behavior? If possible round off to nearest second.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

always_alone said:


> Better still, feel free let your head spin for all those shirtless stallions. There are tons of gorgeous hot boys out there, and as you noted, women too have great appreciation for beauty.


Where are these shirtless stallions?!?!?!?! I need to move. Gah. 

I live on a military base. It's hot here (Matter of fact, it's Oct. 16 and it's going to be 90 today). People go without shirts or only wear tank tops...Hardly of them are hot looking. They are supposed to be in shape right? It's the military!!! You might....MIGHT catch one hot guy that's in shape, but you have to stalk the gym and I'm just not that creepy.

Every other guy has a beer belly or has hair growing off their shoulders. buhhhh.

Point is, I would LOVE to get payback by staring at a hot guy (and give my H a good laugh)...but I can't, because they seem to be like a unicorn. 

OP, just sit your H down and talk to him. Ask him if he would like to work on your sexual relationship since you said it was below average (whatever that means to you). Maybe that is why his eyes are wandering so much. That's just one possibility though. But be direct and talk to him about your sex life without shaming his bad behavior. Hopefully he is honest and says whether he is satisfied on not and you can go from there.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Let's try this again:

The OP didn't say her husband was leering at young women. She didn't say he was gawking, whistling, approaching, or even staring.

She said her husband had a few glances, lasting mere seconds, at some attractive young women. And she "caught" him only twice in half a year.

Do all men look? Of course not, but most absolutely do. Whether you notice or not is another matter entirely.

The woman who started this thread admitted to not feeling the best about herself. She is living in some fantasy world where a man's eye never roams simply because he made vows to one woman. Somehow dedicating his life to her makes his sexuality magically exist only in relation to her.

If she's willing to divorce her husband over something the majority of men do, so be it. Perhaps she can find a eunuch next time go round.

Or marry a gay man. Maybe she'll feel more comfortable catching her husband glancing at young men.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> EH, I would be grossed out if I saw H staring at a teen girl. Now that he's older they all just look like someone who could be his daughter.


Ah, there it is, the old "she could be your daughter!" reference.

So according to that wonderful logic, when a guy turns 40, he can't look at anyone, say under 22, because "she's old enough to be his daughter".

At 50, he can't look at anyone, say under 32 because "she's old enough to be his daughter".

I guess at 90, he'd be a creep for checking out a 70 year old because, well, she could be his daughter!

All women are someone's daughters. Strippers, prostitutes, the woman a guy picked up at the bar last night, or even his lifelong relationship partner. 

Get over it.

Creepy guys are someone's son. Ever think of that?


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## RollerCoasterRide (Sep 8, 2014)

It seems like you're cherrypicking replies you agree with just to get some kind of justification. From the myriad of posts it's clear that looking or accepting your partner looking are not uncommon, so it comes down to choice. The REASON behind it is obvious, and it's likely not that he just started, it's that u just started catching him. 

So talk to him about it, not in an accusatory tone but in a 'this makes me feel bad' tone. If he respects your need he'll attempt to stop getting caught. But dont think u'll be able to change how he thinks about those women...thats just hard wired.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

lenzi said:


> Ah, there it is, the old "she could be your daughter!" reference.
> 
> So according to that wonderful logic, when a guy turns 40, he can't look at anyone, say under 22, because "she's old enough to be his daughter".
> 
> ...


That would be up to HIM as it's HIM thinking teen girls are too young to be sexy and HIM thinking they could be his daughter. What he notices in teen girls is their behavior and actions and hoping like hell his own daughter doesn't act like that someday.
If he ever caught a grown man looking at his DD when she is 16-20ish, he would end up in jail. He would be a hypocrite (on top of a creep) if he did it himself.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Under sexed and not even allowed to look. Some guys just can't catch a break.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Staring/looking is a choice. It's not something you HAVE to do. I hate when people think having a penis gives someone a free pass to act like a creep... cause they can't help themselves... they're men


So you think merely looking at a woman for a few seconds, simply noting her attractiveness, is being a "creep"?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
Don't forget that it can sometimes be difficult to judge someone's age. Younger teen girls often dress to look older. Older women often dress to look young.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> That would be up to HIM as it's HIM thinking teen girls are too young to be sexy and HIM thinking they could be his daughter. What he notices in teen girls is their behavior and actions and hoping like hell his own daughter doesn't act like that someday.
> If he ever caught a grown man looking at his DD when she is 16-20ish, he would end up in jail. He would be a hypocrite (on top of a creep) if he did it himself.


Oh, that's what he said? "I don't check out women 18 years younger than myself because they could be my daughter and I hope she doesn dress and act like those slu*ty teenagers that Lenzi checks out at the local fairs because I'd assault any man who looked at my daughter before she reached the age of 16-20"

That's rather..detailed and specific of him. Almost like he's trying too hard. Anyway I sure hope I don't run into your family at a local fair. It might not end well. I just had this image of your husband chasing me through one of those mirror mazes as I'm trying to wolf down a sausage and pepper hero.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

jaquen said:


> So you think merely looking at a woman for a few seconds, simply noting her attractiveness, is being "creep"?


If you happen to be that young girl, and some geezer dude is fixating on your tits, then yes, absolutely creepy.

Guys may not give a rat's a$$ what women they are leering at are thinking, but mostly it's "buzz off, my body isn't your candy store."


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I love how even the language is couched to villainize this woman's husband.

According to her this man is checking out legal adults. She says, right in the OP, the age bracket she caught him glancing at were "late teens/early 20's".

Those aren't "girls", those are young women. Saying that a man is checking out "teenage girls" is implicating him in behavior associated with pedophilia. 

If you don't even respect your husband enough to acknowledge that took a couple glances at actual women, not little girls, than you've got issues a lot deeper than a few stolen looks.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

always_alone said:


> If you happen to be that young girl, and some geezer dude is fixating on your tits, then yes, absolutely creepy.
> 
> Guys may not give a rat's a$$ what women they are leering at are thinking, but mostly it's "buzz off, my body isn't your candy store."


Have you seen the way these teenage girls dress? Push up bras and low cut shirts showing several inches of cleavage and maybe even a touch of areoli? Shorts that cover 1/4 of the but cheeks.

She goes out dressed like a w*ore yet finds it creepy when guys of all ages check her out. How dare they!

When you cast a wide net you're going to catch all types of fish. That's how it goes. 

If you can't take the heat then don't dress up like you're in a hot kitchen. Or something like that.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

always_alone said:


> If you happen to be that young girl, and some geezer dude is fixating on your tits, then yes, absolutely creepy.
> 
> Guys may not give a rat's a$$ what women they are leering at are thinking, but mostly it's "buzz off, my body isn't your candy store."


You again. I'm absolutely shocked to see you in here with pitch forks and torches, escalating the situation. Floored, I tell you.

Before you derail yet another thread with your ongoing male bashing, let me point out that nowhere in this thread was it stated that the woman's husband was:

- fixating on anyone's tits
- leering

She caught his eyes wandering for a "few seconds". That's it. Something the women he's glanced at will likely never know unless he is face to face with them and literally staring at their bodies. Nobody was violated here. We don't even have any clue what this woman's husband was thinking in his mind.


But, of course, in your usual fashion you've elevated this man to the level of a peeping tom.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/british-men-in-shorts-are-so-splendid#ythtwq


Role reversal. It's just seems funny to me.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

At my age I'm usually thinking, what does that shirt say.?


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Looking does not make one a creep. As a woman, I know I find at least one piece of eye candy to look at while going about my business in a typical day.

However, it can _feel creepy_ for the girl who at ten (in my case it started as young as ten as I had C cups then), 12, 14, 16 etc. is being looked at or talked to in that way. So while I think it's natural, I also think you can overdo it. 

Lenzi, I think you are joking in asking but I'll answer anyhow. I'd say the passing glance is just that. It's a second or two then you go about your business. An example of gawking is staring at her the entire time you're driving up to her, then slowly past her - even rubbernecking as you pass her and not even looking at the road.

Most women (that I know at least) can tell when we're being checked out. Checking out isn't so much offensive as how it's done.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

jaquen said:


> But, of course, in your usual fashion you've elevated this man to the level of a peeping tom.


Funny how it's always man-bashing on TAM to put forward a female perspective.

I have not escalated anything at all; it's all there in the OP.

And fact is like it or not, young girls, errr women, do find it creepy when some geezer dude is checking them out. Especially when he is with a wife or gf.

If you think they don't notice, well, you're wrong.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

staarz21 said:


> http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/british-men-in-shorts-are-so-splendid#ythtwq
> 
> 
> Role reversal. It's just seems funny to me.


Here's another one:

The "crotch cam". Women checking out a man's package (not talking about UPS) on the train.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

staarz21 said:


> http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/british-men-in-shorts-are-so-splendid#ythtwq
> 
> 
> Role reversal. It's just seems funny to me.


:lol:

Although I'm not sure amused disbelief is in quite the same category as appreciation.

And are suit shorts really a thing?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Funny how it's always man-bashing on TAM to put forward a female perspective.
> 
> I have not escalated anything at all; it's all there in the OP.
> 
> ...



Why did you bring up tits and leering?


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## rockoko (Oct 15, 2014)

staarz21:
Thanks for the humor! LMAO but as you said "where are the hot studs?"

Thank you all for sharing your opinions whether I like it or not I am thinking of all angles. 

Some really good point of views here, I appreciate it. I guess I do live in a fantasy world because I was not exposed to this before, to accept he's a common man and lower the standard. 

Have a good day everyone!


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

GTdad said:


> :lol:
> 
> Although I'm not sure amused disbelief is in quite the same category as appreciation.
> 
> And are suit shorts really a thing?


I don't know. But I'm not sure there should be. :rofl:


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Funny how it's always man-bashing on TAM to put forward a female perspective.


Don't try to straw man me Alone. It won't work.

"Female perspective" is not synonymous with "man-bashing". You don't represent the entirety of the "female perspective" anymore than I represent the entirety of "TAM".

This is one poster (me) talking about another poster's (you) long, documented history of man-bashing. This has nothing to do with the "female perspective" or "TAM". 



always_alone said:


> I have not escalated anything at all; it's all there in the OP.


Nothing you've spun up is in the OP. It, as usual, is your hyperbolic, misandric interpretation of the OP.




always_alone said:


> And fact is like it or not, young girls, errr women, do find it creepy when some geezer dude is checking them out.


And? Very few people on this planet are living in total isolation. I'm a man. I've been glanced at, stared at, and even gawked at by women AND men. My wife, who is a lot more keen to notice than I am, tells me people look at me all the time. A woman just cat called me and another male friend in the street a couple months ago. I've had some genuinely creepy experiences that would make your skin crawl.

But guess what? I don't judge those who merely glance or look. I realize that I'm not living in a world of one.

Just as I have no problem if my wife glances at some person she finds attractive. 

Because, gasp, we're human. And we understand that human beings look. It's natural, normal, regardless of whether you like being the object of a quick glance or not.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

staarz21 said:


> Point is, I would LOVE to get payback by staring at a hot guy (and give my H a good laugh)...but I can't, because they seem to be like a unicorn.


Yes, you need to move!

Seriously, though, it's a pretty good way to drive the point home. Lots of guys get quite bent out of shape when they realize their wives are thinking about how hot the pool boy/waiter/mailman/ random stranger is.

It's not just women who get these feelings of inadequacy or insecurity when they realize their mates might be preferring something else.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

The kicker here for me is that I have a wife who really wouldn't mind if I checked out other women, as long as it wasn't a creepy leer. She has said as much, and has even gone so far as to point attractive women out to me, doesn't mind the occasional trip to the strip club...and I'm the guy who honestly doesn't check out other women like that.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

lenzi said:


> Oh, that's what he said? "I don't check out women 18 years younger than myself because they could be my daughter and I hope she doesn dress and act like those slu*ty teenagers that Lenzi checks out at the local fairs because I'd assault any man who looked at my daughter before she reached the age of 16-20"
> 
> That's rather..detailed and specific of him. Almost like he's trying too hard.


Of course not. We're talking conversations over the past 8 years and seeing his behavior in public, seeing the types of porn he watches (hint: not teenagers).

You have a right to look, other people have the right to think whatever we want about people who do. Why does it matter?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

rockoko said:


> I am not the average 50 year old woman. I am not over weight (size zero) or ugly. I still get looks when I am in public. It happened a couple months ago when we were at a restaurant and I saw an old men sticking his tongue out at me, then he started rubbing his private part. I told my husband about it, he confronted the guy and the restaurant owner ended up calling the cop to chase him out. I was one of those young girls that got checked out by older, creepy men even indecent proposals from some of them. I found it's disgusting, disrespectful and felt bad for their wives, now I am one of those wives. I used to get one whistle a day in high school. I've been in other relationships and many dates. No one ever glanced at another girl while they were with me. I am confident with myself and always felt good about myself in my past relationships.
> 
> A few men and women here offered valid supports and I thank you. I like to know there are men out there that respect their wives enough to put the creepy, meaningless look a side for the sake of their other half. It's not flattering for a young girl to see a married man check her out, at least, it was not for me. Again, beauty is hard to resist as I sometimes find a certain men so handsome, but my eyes would never drift towards their directions while my husband is sitting in front of me. It's not worth it for a look at something that's just passing by.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are conveying. If I'm with my wife I'm focused on her. My eye does not wander. If we are conversing(usually we don't shut up) and I just look off to whatever, it is disrespectful. Unless of course there is a commotion that would draw anyone's attention. I would be a bit incensed if my wife kept looking at every Tom, D(i)ck and Harry that walked by. She would be incensed with me looking at every Mary, Margaret and Jane that walked by. It shows very little respect.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Don't try to straw man me Alone. It won't work.
> 
> "Female perspective" is not synonymous with "man-bashing". You don't represent the entirety of the "female perspective" anymore than I represent the entirety of "TAM".
> 
> ...



Yes, well this exchange is just you and me, but my experience is that a goodly number of men here see me as a man-basher.

Now obviously, the easy response is that they see me this way because I am. And y'all are entitled to your opinions.

But what, pray tell, is man-bashing about saying (1) a little payback might drive the point home; and (2) that yes indeed, young women do not much like geezer attention? 

To me these are just simple observations. I'm sorry you find hem so man-hating and offensive.

Yes, the OP did use the word "seconds", but she also pointed out quite clearly how much that type of looking bugged her when she was the object of it, not just the bystander. So clearly, we are talking about actions that are abundantly obvious to all.

Why is it man-bashing to point that out?

PS, I never said my opinion reflected that of other women, or at least that was not my intent. But certainly any perspective that could even remotely be construed as feminist, or slightly challenging of male entitlement to objectify women, is pretty much always called out for man-hating around here.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Reading threads with this topic some of the female posters really, really work overtime to leave the impression that plenty of women don't check out guys. Or other women.

It's _hilarious _to behold the hypocrisy.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Why did you bring up tits and leering?


Doesn't it count as leering when it's obvious to all that there's some "checking out" going on?

As for the tits, well that's just been my experience. When I was being "checked out", that's usually where the attention was directed.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

jaquen said:


> Reading threads with this topic some of the female posters really, really work overtime to leave the impression that plenty of women don't check out guys. Or other women.


I cannot say I have gotten that impression.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

always_alone said:


> As for the tits, well that's just been my experience. When I was being "checked out", that's usually where the attention was directed.


I would say your experience is very similar to what other women have experienced.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He doesn't even look at hot women, at least around me. I'll see one and watch to see if he notices and he never looks or stares. Even when women obviously flirt with him he doesn't act like he gives a crap. IMO it would be just disrespectful if he didn't.
> 
> ROFLMAO. He is being respectful and/or wanting to stay out of trouble. If he has a working wiener, and working eyes, he looks when you are not around. Either that, or he is gay. Odds are the former, not the latter.
> 
> Staring/looking is a choice. It's not something you HAVE to do. I hate when people think having a penis gives someone a free pass to act like a creep... cause they can't help themselves... they're men


Staring does not equal looking.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Of course not. We're talking conversations over the past 8 years and seeing his behavior in public, seeing the types of porn he watches (hint: not teenagers).
> 
> You have a right to look, other people have the right to think whatever we want about people who do. Why does it matter?


It only matters if I run into your family at a local fair and I end up with a snow cone up my a$$.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

rockoko said:


> I am not the average 50 year old woman. I am not over weight (size zero) or ugly. I still get looks when I am in public. It happened a couple months ago when we were at a restaurant and I saw an old men sticking his tongue out at me, then he started rubbing his private part. I told my husband about it, he confronted the guy and the restaurant owner ended up calling the cop to chase him out. I was one of those young girls that got checked out by older, creepy men even indecent proposals from some of them. I found it's disgusting, disrespectful and felt bad for their wives, now I am one of those wives. I used to get one whistle a day in high school. I've been in other relationships and many dates. No one ever glanced at another girl while they were with me. I am confident with myself and always felt good about myself in my past relationships.
> 
> A few men and women here offered valid supports and I thank you. I like to know there are men out there that respect their wives enough to put the creepy, meaningless look a side for the sake of their other half. It's not flattering for a young girl to see a married man check her out, at least, it was not for me. Again, beauty is hard to resist as I sometimes find a certain men so handsome, but my eyes would never drift towards their directions while my husband is sitting in front of me. It's not worth it for a look at something that's just passing by.
> 
> ...


Your Problem is that you are taking an event which many women take in stride and personalizing it to your OWN set of insecurities.
Men look at women all the time and that’s just it. Most of us are simply LOOKING. We aren’t trying to stray or to offend our wives. 
We are simply wired that way.

Women also look quite often but they usually look at slightly different things. 
We know.
We have known about it for centuries.

It seems to me that you have an agreement with yourself that you are, somehow, “better” than those women and it’s a personal affront that your husband considers those women potentially more desirable than you. Your posts are quite obvious in their judgmental tone and superior inflection. 
Obviously you must think you are “all that and a bag of chips”.
So when your husband shows any sign of wanting any other snack food, I bet you get terribly offended.
But as my grandmother used to say “It doesn’t matter where he gets his appetite, as long as he comes home for dinner.”

Lighten up and I bet you two will have more fun together. Right now this attitude would drive me further away.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

weightlifter said:


> ROFLMAO. He is being respectful and/or wanting to stay out of trouble. If he has a working wiener, and working eyes, he looks when you are not around. Either that, or he is gay. Odds are the former, not the latter.


I don't care if I'm not there to see it. It's disrespectful to do it in front of your wife. It's creepy (to me) to do it to teenagers.

Although, I still don't see him as a looker. He's a 'lookee' (women stare at him and gawk/flirt/ stand in a way that makes themselves look sexier ) I've pointed it out to him a few times, so has his friends, he doesn't care. I don't care if it's just for my benefit... in fact that would make me feel even better about it. It's respect.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

always_alone said:


> Doesn't it count as leering when it's obvious to all that there's some "checking out" going on?
> 
> As for the tits, well that's just been my experience. When I was being "checked out", that's usually where the attention was directed.


Most guys are looking for the nipples...staring at tits without nipples would be "pointless".




wait for it...


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SamuraiJack said:


> Your Problem is that you are taking an event which many women take in stride and personalizing it to your OWN set of insecurities.
> Men look at women all the time and that’s just it. Most of us are simply LOOKING. We aren’t trying to stray or to offend our wives.
> We are simply wired that way.
> 
> ...


I have always vehemently disagreed with that thought process.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> Your Problem is that you are taking an event which many women take in stride and personalizing it to your OWN set of insecurities.
> Men look at women all the time and that’s just it. Most of us are simply LOOKING. We aren’t trying to stray or to offend our wives.
> We are simply wired that way.
> 
> ...


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

SamuraiJack said:


> Your Problem is that you are taking an event which many women take in stride and personalizing it to your OWN set of insecurities.
> Men look at women all the time and that’s just it. Most of us are simply LOOKING. We aren’t trying to stray or to offend our wives.
> We are simply wired that way.
> 
> ...


It can be very jarring when a person, male or female, discovers that wedding vows don't alter human sexuality.

This is when romantic ideals fall away and are replaced by stark reality.

And some people take this awakening poorly. It's not easy to realize that your ideal doesn't exist, or at the very least doesn't exist in your circumstances.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> I have always vehemently disagreed with that thought process.


Im not saying hang out in strip clubs, but it is possible to both enjoy female forms and stay true to your vows.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> I have always vehemently disagreed with that thought process.





Yeswecan said:


> I call BUL LSH(i)T



Oh please say more!


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SamuraiJack said:


> Im not saying hang out in strip clubs, but it is possible to both enjoy female forms and stay true to your vows.


What that little pearl of wisdom means is it doesn't matter how or whom they get horned up with so long as they release it with their partner. I for one don't want some other guy getting my wife all horny and her using me as a masturbation tool when she gets home. I extend her the same courtesy.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> Im not saying hang out in strip clubs, but it is possible to both enjoy female forms and stay true to your vows.


Yes, it is possible. But I believe the OP was stating enjoying the female form with her present and engaged in conversation is disrespectful. I can assure you if I was checking out the female forms while dinning with my W the evening would be short lived. It would be the same for my W if she were getting her appetite around the room.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Yeswecan said:


> Yes, it is possible. But I believe the OP was stating enjoying the female form with her present and engaged in conversation is disrespectful. *I can assure you if I was checking out the female forms while dinning with my W the evening would be short lived. It would be the same for my W if she were getting her appetite around the room.*


And not because you couldn't wait to get home and naked...


----------



## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> What that little pearl of wisdom means is it doesn't matter how or whom they get horned up with so long as they release it with their partner. I for one don't want some other guy getting my wife all horny and her using me as a masturbation tool when she gets home. I extend her the same courtesy.


So you are telling me that you NEVER look at other women...not even for a brief second?


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> And not because you couldn't wait to get home and naked...


Exactly.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

lenzi said:


> It only matters if I run into your family at a local fair and I end up with a snow cone up my a$$.


Then don't look at teen girls who are out with their fathers, especially ones who could kick your butt.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> So you are telling me that you NEVER look at other women...not even for a brief second?


I will never tell you this. Only horses in Lancaster County PA have blinders on. What I'm saying and what the OP is trying to convey, checking out women of any age while with your SO is disrespectful.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SamuraiJack said:


> So you are telling me that you NEVER look at other women...not even for a brief second?


Of course I notice other women in my day to day life, just as I notice other cars, and trees, but there is a difference between noticing, and looking...


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Then don't look at teen girls who are out with their fathers, especially ones who could kick your butt.


Good plan. Actually now that I think about it, most of them are out with their girlfriends who are dressed the same way. It's almost like they're in competition to look the most slu*ty.

Makes it much more interesting.


----------



## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> I will never tell you this. Only horses in Lancaster County PA have blinders on. What I'm saying and what the OP is trying to convey, checking out women of any age while with your SO is disrespectful.


To me, the way the OP comes across is very controlling.

I have angreement with my SO that its okay. In fact we often play word games around it. She will point to a woman and say something like "Exotic or Beautiful?" and I will have to decide. She gets the same treatment. "Rugged or Rough around the edges?"
It is in this way that we enjoy and appreciate people.

Im thinking other people may have more "extreme" visons of what I am saying


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> To me, the way the OP comes across is very controlling.
> 
> I have angreement with my SO that its okay. In fact we often play word games around it. She will point to a woman and say something like "Exotic or Beautiful?" and I will have to decide. She gets the same treatment. "Rugged or Rough around the edges?"
> It is in this way that we enjoy and appreciate people.
> ...


I find it odd to have an agreement. :scratchhead:

My wife and I "people watch". We do it out of curiosity and mostly for laughs. Sit on the boardwalk of a ocean town and watch the people. That is what we do. There is nounderlying scheme. Just watching people. If we want to get our engines going we pull up a saved sext message or that pic sent by my W of her in a very seductive outfit. Or my favorite...rub her leg under the table while people are close by. Works every time.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Yeswecan said:


> My wife and I "people watch". We do it out of curiosity and mostly for laughs. Sit on the boardwalk of a ocean town and watch the people. That is what we do. There is underlying scheme. Just watching people.


That's a nice past time for a couple to enjoy together, however, in the scenario presented on this particular thread, the Op and her husband would need to pull up a couple of chairs outside a local high school.


----------



## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> I find it odd to have an agreement. :scratchhead:
> 
> My wife and I "people watch". We do it out of curiosity and mostly for laughs. Sit on the boardwalk of a ocean town and watch the people. That is what we do. There is underlying scheme. Just watching people.


Why would you find that odd? Its what has developed over the course of time and we agreed upon it. We are avid people watchers as well. 
Its just that sometimes these things need to be said aloud to make sure everyone is on the same page.

Perhaps the OP needs to have this small talk with her husband?
Sounds like it could save a lot of hassle.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

lenzi said:


> That's a nice past time for a couple to enjoy together, however, in the scenario presented on this particular thread, the Op and her husband would need to pull up a couple of chairs outside a local high school.


Next you will say the H needs to bring candy. 

Oh brother....


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> I have always vehemently disagreed with that thought process.


As do I. 

It's one thing to glance, admire, whatever, but I think that if a spouse's appetite is being whet largely from people, or images, outside of their spouse, there is a real problem. The source of your "appetite" matters, at least it would to me.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> Why would you find that odd? Its what has developed over the course of time and we agreed upon it. We are avid people watchers as well.
> Its just that sometimes these things need to be said aloud to make sure everyone is on the same page.
> 
> Perhaps the OP needs to have this small talk with her husband?
> Sounds like it could save a lot of hassle.


I don't know. Maybe it is unsaid between my W and I but understood all the same. It never really presented a issue between us. 

Well, yes. Talking about it clears the air. Always good to lay it out on the table. It does save a lot of grief.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> Of course I notice other women in my day to day life, just as I notice other cars, and trees, but there is a difference between noticing, and looking...


There is a difference between noticing and looking.

The info provided by the OP suggests her husband's VERY brief, VERY sporadic glances fall into the "noticing" category.

As is always the case with these hotbed topics, people have projected left and right and totally steamrolled over the perimeters set forth by the OP.

We originally started off with a man who got caught twice in SIX months glancing at young women for a *few* seconds.

Then the OP, and subsequent people, have now painted him as little more than a creepy old pedophile who is leering and drooling at underage girls while his long suffering wife looks on in embarrassment and disbelief.

Nevermind the fact that OP has admitted that she, in her naivete, didn't even think "noticing" happened with married men.

This thread isn't a testament to the awfulness of the OP. It's the testament to how out of touch with reality the OP is, and how her husband's rather normal, brief glances have been escalated in her mind as they make her feel worse about herself.

And don't get me started on the fact that their sex life is below par. Sexually starved AND painted as trenchcoat pervert.

That's tough.


----------



## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> I don't know. Maybe it is unsaid between my W and I but understood all the same. It never really presented a issue between us.
> 
> Well, yes. Talking about it clears the air. Always good to lay it out on the table. It does save a lot of grief.


If that was the way it is with my GF, then it would be called an understanding. We , however, are careful about these things because assumption killed both of our previous marriages.

Its also remarkably refreshing. 

@jaquen
Thats why I posted the comment of not haging out in stripclubs.
I think this would have gone smoother if I had explained my grandmother beforehand.
No matter.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> Its also remarkably refreshing.


Openness...certainly! :smthumbup:

Liberating as well


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

She said 
_ it was more than one glance at each occasion_
and 
_ I believed first look is normal and innocent, but after 4 looks, his mind went to something else and no longer just a look. I _


It's not just one quick notice, it's many looks.


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

jaquen said:


> As do I.
> 
> It's one thing to glance, admire, whatever, but I think that if a spouse's appetite is being whet largely from people, or images, outside of their spouse, there is a real problem. The source of your "appetite" matters, at least it would to me.


And we'll, that's exactly it. 

No one is troubled by noticing. Everyone notices. It's when the "checker" is obviously distracted, or making efforts to gain a better view, or the "checkee" is noticeably uncomfortable or pitying that it starts to be a problem.

Now it is possible that OP is overly sensitive, but I'm not sure it fair to assume that she is controlling and he is just her innocent victim.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> She said
> _ it was more than one glance at each occasion_
> and
> _ I believed first look is normal and innocent, but after 4 looks, his mind went to something else and no longer just a look. I _
> ...


She also said:

"provided it was a few seconds glance" and that she "caught" him only twice in six months.

Do you have any idea how the human body works? That 4 "looks" , a few seconds each, is not remotely a lot?

Do you any idea how often behaviorists have noted men look at women, on average? Because I think the reality would scorch your face off if you really, truly believe what the OP described is abnormal or remotely excessive. 

Don't get me started on how often men look at other men, women look at other women, and women look at men. And a lot of it is totally automatic and unconscious. 

This conversation lacks truth and a basic sense of reality.


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

jaquen said:


> And don't get me started on the fact that their sex life is below par. Sexually starved AND painted as trenchcoat pervert.
> 
> That's tough.


At least he got to console himself with that college girl.

Of course, his cheating couldn't possibly have anything to do with that sub par sex life and her worries about his loyalty...


----------



## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Middle aged husband and teenager girls*



NobodySpecial said:


> Lucky guys have women who point out the particularly sweet eye candy that they may have missed.


Why on earth would anyone do that?


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

catfan said:


> Why on earth would anyone do that?


It's a playful way for the woman to tease her guy. It's a sign of love and affection, and self confidence. 

Example usage: "Honey I'd bet you'd like to get a piece of HER wouldn't you?"

This approach works well when the man has not yet noticed the hottie.


----------



## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> I have a 19 year old daughter. Men of all ages look at her. I'm actually kind of amused by it. One time we were at Trader Joes and I decided to just kind of hang back and watch. I lost count of the head turns and double takes. The males employees were the worst though. She was oblivious. When we left she says, "I should get a job here." Umm, yeah, no.


My two girls are beauties The youngest one developed very early

Walking through the mall (only invited because of my AMEX card) I could feel the paternal rage building as men of all ages would stare at her.

Even though I would remind myself of that it's still hard not to look.

55


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

always_alone said:


> At least he got to console himself with that college girl.
> 
> Of course, his cheating couldn't possibly have anything to do with that sub par sex life and her worries about his loyalty...


You mean the "cheating" that she doesn't even believe was "cheating"?

So now you get to define adultery for someone else?


----------



## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

WalterWhite said:


> Newflash Rocoko!! All men, young, old, middle aged, and even some gay men LOVE admiring sexy teen girls. *Its the way we are wired by God. We love adoring the handiwork of Jesus...and for men, girls are the most beautiful thing in the whole universe.*
> 
> Looking does not make us perverts, nor pedophiles, nor abnormal. It means that we are normal males.
> 
> ...


If God made anything better than girls...He/She kept it for Him/Her Self (Keeping my options open here ladies)

55


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

catfan said:


> Why on earth would anyone do that?


Some people are secure enough to do that.


----------



## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Middle aged husband and teenager girls*



lenzi said:


> It's a playful way for the woman to tease her guy. It's a sign of love and affection, and self confidence.
> 
> Example usage: "Honey I'd bet you'd like to get a piece of HER wouldn't you?"
> 
> This approach works well when the man has not yet noticed the hottie.


To me it sounds more like fishing to find out what her guy wants and finds attractive, it sounds like a trap for trouble. Why would a woman make her husband want to [email protected] women he didn't even notice? To seem like a 'cool' woman that isn't jealous?


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

lenzi said:


> It's a playful way for the woman to tease her guy. It's a sign of love and affection, and self confidence.
> 
> Example usage: *"Honey I'd bet you'd like to get a piece of HER wouldn't you?"*
> 
> This approach works well when the man has not yet noticed the hottie.


My wife playfully tried that approach a few times and was genuinely surprised at my lackluster response. It didn't take her long to figure out that when she lifts up HER shirt and says "I bet you want a piece of THESE" now THAT gets a response


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

catfan said:


> Why would a woman make her husband want to [email protected] women he didn't even notice?


If you can't understand there's really nothing to explain here. 



samyeagar said:


> It didn't take her long to figure out that when she lifts up HER shirt and says "I bet you want a piece of THESE" now THAT gets a response


That would get a response from me too.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

catfan said:


> To me it sounds more like fishing to find out what her guy wants and finds attractive, it sounds like a trap for trouble. Why would a woman make her husband want to [email protected] women he didn't even notice? To seem like a 'cool' woman that isn't jealous?


Or maybe she's just a cool woman...who isn't jealous.

They do exist.

In the same way that a lot of guys would be burning with jealousy over other guys checking their SO others out, and I happen to find it flattering. 

Different strokes and all that.


----------



## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

catfan said:


> To me it sounds more like fishing to find out what her guy wants and finds attractive, it sounds like a trap for trouble. Why would a woman make her husband want to [email protected] women he didn't even notice? To seem like a 'cool' woman that isn't jealous?


You cant MAKE someone want to bang a girl.

Some guys appreciate that their gals are secure enough to know they like certain things.
It also has a slight "dare" component to it. 
Sometimes its also a test.

People tell a story with their whole body. Sometimes its fun to read. The most beautiful person I ever saw was 104.
She was a self contained novel of astounding complexity and beauty.


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

jaquen said:


> You mean the "cheating" that she doesn't even believe was "cheating"?
> 
> So now you get to define adultery for someone else?


No, I am not defining adultery for OP. I am reading her posts.




rockoko said:


> . He hid the relationship for 8 months and the girl went to a college where he used to work, 200 miles a way. Phone calls, text and Skype. He also traveled a lot during that time but claim he did not cheat. * I have problems trusting him since.*


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Or maybe she's just a cool woman...who isn't jealous.
> 
> They do exist.
> 
> ...


So far we've seen it described as insecure, jealous, controlling...but what if it's really as simple as feeling disrespected?

There are things my wife feels are disrespectful that I don't, and I can't even remotely understand why she feels the way she does but you know what...I don't do it for no other reason than I don't want her feeling disrespected by me.

Different strokes and all that.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Do you any idea how often behaviorists have noted men look at women, on average? Because I think the reality would scorch your face off if you really, truly believe what the OP described is abnormal or remotely excessive.


I've seen how often men look (and it's never the guys you _want _to be looking BTW) and it doesn't matter. 

It doesn't matter what other people do, it matters what your spouse thinks. 

It's a choice. If it bothers your spouse, don't do it. Simple. It's not going to hurt you to not look at other women when she's with you.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I've seen how often men look (*and it's never the guys you want to be looking BTW*) and it doesn't matter.
> 
> It doesn't matter what other people do, it matters what your spouse thinks.
> 
> It's a choice. If it bothers your spouse, don't do it. Simple. It's not going to hurt you to not look at other women when she's with you.


Hmmm...those are the guys YOU are looking at?


----------



## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Middle aged husband and teenager girls*



lenzi said:


> If you can't understand there's really nothing to explain here.
> 
> 
> 
> That would get a response from me too.


I really don't understand why you would want your husband to cheat...still please explain? I'm very puzzled.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> Hmmm...those are the guys YOU are looking at?


Sure if I was single but I tend to stay away from men. Sometimes a simple look can be misinterpreted as interest and an invitation to come over and chat so I avoid it.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> So far we've seen it described as insecure, jealous, controlling...but what if it's really as simple as feeling disrespected?
> 
> There are things my wife feels are disrespectful that I don't, and I can't even remotely understand why she feels the way she does but you know what...I don't do it for no other reason than I don't want her feeling disrespected by me.
> 
> Different strokes and all that.



If a woman walks by my eyesight who I perceive to be gorgeous, sexy, hot, whatever adjective floats your boat, and I catch her for a few seconds while my wife is with me, it literally has nothing to do with my wife.

I won't pretend it has anything to do with her. Studies show that most men pick up an attractive woman in mere milliseconds, often before conscious thought even comes into play. So many notice a woman so subtly that their wives/girlfriends have no idea they even looked. Sometimes your eye catches someone before you catch yourself. I won't pretend that I will never, ever, for a few seconds here or there, catch someone in my eye sight. 

And I won't lie to my wife, or falsely placate her, just because she notices that I'm human. I can promise that I won't stand there leering, gawking, drooling, staring, whatever. But *noticing*? 

But here's the rub. I wouldn't be married to somebody too insecure to recognize that. That would have been my mistake if I did.

If some woman is so insecure as to feel disrespected by a glance here and there, then I'll leave it up to her husband to deal with that nonsense.

I will not agree that a simple feeling of disrespect means you're being disrespected. It's worthy of a conversation where two adults discuss their perspective, but it doesn't mean you get your way just because you have a "feeling". Your feeling could easily be irrational, crazy, absurd, detached from reality.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

But this is not about a glance so subtle that the woman you are with doesn't even notice. 

If you are looking in a way that your date/wife notices or the woman you are looking at would notice, it's too much of a look if it makes them uncomfortable.


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

If the woman were in their 30s and 40s this wouldn't be a problem?


----------



## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Did we get an answer from her as to why she doesn't see what we see as obvious, the lack of a good sex life and his frustration is directing his libido elsewhere. It seems he has been quite disciplined and apparently a brief look is creating problems. She then nags him and he withdraws. 

I don't think the problem is that she is older, but that she is "acting older." Instead of great sex, new positions, cute outfits, he get nagging befitting an older woman. He is now frustrated. 

I think she should try being more amorous, dress cuter, and try to be a cute girlfriend, instead of an older nagging wife.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> But this is not about a glance so subtle that the woman you are with doesn't even notice.
> 
> If you are looking in a way that your date/wife notices or the woman you are looking at would notice, it's too much of a look if it makes them uncomfortable.


Some women are so insecure and paranoid that even a subtle glance is noticed. 

Does that mean a man is universally in the wrong just because she happened to notice a few seconds glance?


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

just got it 55 said:


> My two girls are beauties The youngest one developed very early
> 
> Walking through the mall (only invited because of my AMEX card) I could feel the paternal rage building as men of all ages would stare at her.
> 
> ...


I simply don't get it. My oldest is a good looking girl. She gets looked at. If it doesn't bother her, it doesn't bother me. Mens eyes can't get her pregnant nor give her an STD. 

Let one of them try to touch her when she doesn't want it OTOH and it's on...


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Would she discuss it with you? Does she even notice?


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Yes and yes. The occasional look doesn't bug her at all. The staring like FW talked about where he's looking over and over again does bug her.


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Some women are so insecure and paranoid that even a subtle glance is noticed.
> 
> Does that mean a man is universally in the wrong just because she happened to notice a few seconds glance?


Some men are dishonest and engage in selfish and inappropriate behaviours.

Does that mean a woman in universally in the wrong because she happens to transfer her anger and insecurity to new situations?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Some women are so insecure and paranoid that even a subtle glance is noticed.
> 
> Does that mean a man is universally in the wrong just because she happened to notice a few seconds glance?


It's not about being right or wrong. It's just compatibility. A man who likes to look at other women isn't going to be compatible with a woman who is bothered by it. 

After being with a man who doesn't look, I couldn't be with a man who does. I want to feel like the most important girl in the room when I'm out with my man. A man who checks out other women, and especially teen girls, just wouldn't be right for me. Doesn't make him _universally _wrong, he'd just have to find someone who doesn't mind.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Also- I think it's a little funny that a forum that advocates paranoia (down to panty checking, VARs, keyloggers, etc) if you even suspect your wife may be flirting, that all of a sudden it's a "boys will be boys" situation when a wife in uncomfortable with her husband's behavior around the opposite sex. 

If a woman was out with her husband checking out hot 20 year old men, being disrespectful to him, would you have a different response?


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> After being with a man who doesn't look, I couldn't be with a man who does. I want to feel like the most important girl in the room when I'm out with my man. A man who checks out other women, and especially teen girls, just wouldn't be right for me. Doesn't make him _universally _wrong, he'd just have to find someone who doesn't mind.


I agree. If he wants to pursue a variety of "snack food", he's more than welcome to. I won't stop him.

Of course, I probably won't stick around for it either.


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

As men when out with our wives we should keep either our eyes focused on them or the floor.


----------



## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

richie33 said:


> As men when out with our wives we should keep either our eyes focused on them or the floor.


:whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip::whip:


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Also- I think it's a little funny that a forum that advocates paranoia (down to panty checking, VARs, keyloggers, etc) if you even suspect your wife may be flirting, that all of a sudden it's a "boys will be boys" situation when a wife in uncomfortable with her husband's behavior around the opposite sex.


Just like I told Always_Alone that I'm not responsible for all of TAM, I'll reiterate this with you.

Since I'm not one of the paranoia advocates who jump to "panty checking, VARS, keyloggers, etc", this is a wasted straw man. Perhaps somebody else in this thread who is can answer for the seeming hypocrisy?

I don't subscribe to "boys will be boys" on this topic, but rather "humans will be humans".



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> If a woman was out with her husband checking out hot 20 year old men, being disrespectful to him, would you have a different response?



If a hot 20 year old dude walked by my wife and she merely looked at him for a few moments, I wouldn't find that disrespectful. I'd tell a man in those shoes who does to _get over it _. I'd recommend he deal with his own personal insecurities, that are so rampant that he can't handle the fact that his wife isn't blind and/or dead.


----------



## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Many adult womendo not have an attraction to 20-something young men. I'm one of them. If If I look twice at a good looking man older than 40 my husband becomes jealous.


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Since I'm not one of the paranoia advocates who jump to "panty checking, VARS, keyloggers, etc", this is a wasted straw man. Perhaps somebody else in this thread who is can answer for the seeming hypocrisy?
> 
> I don't subscribe to "boys will be boys" on this topic, but rather "humans will be humans".


And, truth is, I often agree with your posts, and find a lot of the reactions to opposite sex friends and GNOs to be overblown and paranoid.

But this time, it seems to me you have focused on the word "seconds" to the exclusion of everything else the OP has said. And decided that therefore she must just be overly insecure and neurotic, even though there's a reasonable chance that he has cheated on her and lied to her about other things.

Yet you persist in ignoring these things so you can keep b*tching about how insecure and unreasonable everyone is.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

always_alone said:


> And, truth is, I often agree with your posts, and find a lot of the reactions to opposite sex friends and GNOs to be overblown and paranoid.


That's refreshing to read. I had no idea!



always_alone said:


> But this time, it seems to me you have focused on the word "seconds" to the exclusion of everything else the OP has said. And decided that therefore she must just be overly insecure and neurotic, even though there's a reasonable chance that he has cheated on her and lied to her about other things.



Ignoring what?

The woman said that she didn't think her husband cheated. That wasn't the root of her issue with the interactions between the girl.

But the main thread indeed is, according to the OP, about catching her husband looking at young women or a few seconds, twice in six months. She then later on goes on to say she's surprised that lots of men do this, didn't have a clue, and now will adjust her expectations accordingly.

She admits to having self esteem issues and admits, again, to not even realizing that it's pretty normal for guys to check out other women briefly. I'm focusing primarily on the issue that she created this thread over.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

tom67 said:


> :rofl:
> 
> My d is going to be 16 and the wolves stare at her.



I've had to deal with wolves for a while now 

My older girl is a Kim Kardashian Eurasian look alike... The younger a classical European beauty. They do turn heads but hey, good for them. I know they don't get the attention get into their heads. 

42 is not middle age by the way. I'm 55 and that's middle age - barely.

Now about older guys and wandering eyes, some of us actually prefer the moms . Younger women rarely know how to dress well (mine do - the benefit of a dad in the design professions who taught them at a very early age about good fashion). 

Men always look, but women do too. How many times my wife has looked at some starlet lookalike and be thankful her daughters have better taste than that...


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Ignoring what?
> 
> The woman said that she didn't think her husband cheated. That wasn't the root of her issue with the interactions between the girl.


What you are ignoring is that she said outright that the problem started 7 years ago when her h was caught up with some college girl, and they never really recovered from that.

And she never said that she thinks he didn't cheat; she said that *he* said he didn't cheat. 

And that she actually feels pretty good about herself, her looks, at least in terms of how attractive she is to men other than her h.

And while she said that she might be expecting too much from him, she also called it "lowering her sandard".

Now obviously we're outsiders who don't know the full story, so it's up to OP and her h to judge what's really going on.

But to just zero in on what you see to be an over the top reaction is to ignore the history that is feeding into that reaction. And to focus on her insecurity alone is to ignore that he may well indeed be feeding that insecurity.

As you noted earlier, it is unpleasant for many of us to be put in the position of feeling like our SO's are really interested in and aroused by others.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

always_alone said:


> And she never said that she thinks he didn't cheat; she said that *he* said he didn't cheat.


Really? This says otherwise.



rockoko said:


> ...and the person who kept insisting I have him take a polygraph for the Linkedin relationship, he will not and *I don't need him to*. I talked to the girl and saw a couple of their text messages. The point of that is the trust was violated by him not telling me about her, *he did not sleep with her.*





always_alone said:


> And that she actually feels pretty good about herself...


Really?



rockoko said:


> * I don't feel good about myself* and I told him this.







always_alone said:


> And while she said that she might be expecting too much from him, she also called it "lowering her sandard".


I call it "getting in touch with reality".

YMMV.




always_alone said:


> But to just zero in on what you see to be an over the top reaction is to ignore the history that is feeding into that reaction. And to focus on her insecurity alone is to ignore that he may well indeed be feeding that insecurity.


He very well could be. But what I am suppose to do, ignore what she says here?

She says that the college coed situation regarding the young woman who lived 200 miles away was an issue of him not telling her about the partnership, a trust issue, but she believes he did not sleep with her. She says in the OP that she is the one who doesn't feel good about herself, before later contradicting this assertion. 





always_alone said:


> As you noted earlier, it is unpleasant for many of us to be put in the position of feeling like our SO's are really interested in and aroused by others.


Unpleasant? Yes.

But it's highly unrealistic to expect that a marriage license and vows are going to magically render your SO unable to become aroused by, or even interested in, another human being.

And that's my point. This woman seems totally shocked that her husband could even find other, younger women around him attractive at all. That is living a fantasy world best shaken awake from.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Unpleasant? Yes.
> 
> But it's highly unrealistic to expect that a marriage license and vows are going to magically render your SO unable to become aroused by, or even interested in, another human being.
> 
> And that's my point. This woman seems totally shocked that her husband could even find other, younger women around him attractive at all. That is living a fantasy world best shaken awake from.


But it's not unrealistic to expect your partner to respect you enough to not make it obvious when you are out with them and to stop looking at other women if you've asked them to and told them it makes you uncomfortable.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Really? This says otherwise.


Oh, well colour me a bad reader because I somehow missed that post about the polygraph.

Still, I think OP's first posts made it pretty clear the trust issue runs very deep in that relationship. It may be "realistic" that spouses are attracted to others, but surely that doesn't mean that whatever lies or disrespectful behaviour a spouse dishes out are acceptable. No doubt you have your lines, too, where if your wife crossed them, you'd be questioning her love for you.

Personally, I don't have much use for a relationship where if I were to tell my partner that what he's doing is making me feel bad about myself and insecure about our relationship, his only response would be, "too freaking bad, your problem, that's how I'm wired, I do what I want".

And yet, that is the response here. Matters not a whit how he might be contributing to this. Everything is her fault. Her insecurity, her unwillingness to accept people as they are, her naivety.

People may be people, but if we're going to the bother of a monogamous relationship, shouldn't we be making at least some effort to respect our spouses? Otherwise, why not stay true to our nature, be footloose and fancy free, instead of pretending some sort of commitment?


ETA: I just wanted to add a personal note to this. My response to such disrespect from my SO was to simply detach completely. If he doesn't care, why should I? And as far as I'm concerned he has forfeited any right to complain about what I might be "wired" to do. If he doesn't like it, perhaps he should find someone else.

I'm sure you can see how this attitude is not very conducive to building a strong relationship.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

I think this thread has shown another layer of being potentially incompatible with someone as a partner.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> But it's not unrealistic to expect your partner to respect you enough to not make it obvious when you are out with them and to stop looking at other women if you've asked them to and told them it makes you uncomfortable.


Again, what is "obvious"?

To me "obvious" would be frequent, inappropriate staring and/or leering. That is disrespectful. 

What if somebody's "obvious" is "I saw your eyes drift for two seconds at that attractive person"? At what point is somebody so out of touch with reality, or unreasonable, that catering to them would be absurd or highly unlikely?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Oh, well colour me a bad reader because I somehow missed that post about the polygraph.
> 
> Still, I think OP's first posts made it pretty clear the trust issue runs very deep in that relationship. It may be "realistic" that spouses are attracted to others, but surely that doesn't mean that whatever lies or disrespectful behaviour a spouse dishes out are acceptable. No doubt you have your lines, too, where if your wife crossed them, you'd be questioning her love for you.
> 
> ...


Of course you are absolutely right. I think respect in a relationship is second, and barely so, to love (though in true, perfect love there should inherently be respect).

But, for me, it comes down to what is reasonable.

Nobody on planet Earth respects me more than my wife. She has never, not once, intentionally disrespected me. However there have been a few times when she's said, or done, something that made me feel disrespected. And a good majority of those rare times my wife did absolutely nothing wrong; there was just something inside of me that was feeling insecure, some wound, that didn't take much to trigger. My wife isn't in the wrong automatically simply because I feel a negative emotion. 

And the same goes for her. We have to discover if the other person was actually in the wrong, or just said, or did something, that was perfectly reasonable, but we reacted in an unreasonable way. We don't just automatically expect the other to make promises of change every single time our feelings get hurt.

I'll give you an example. My wife has never had a problem with me acknowledging other women were attractive. I don't do it often, but I don't make it a secret if I say "Oh she's cute/beautiful/hot/etc". This was never a problem until she gained some weight and started feeling bad about herself. The real work didn't come with me making promises to NEVER note a woman is attractive, anymore than I expected her to do the same when it came to my own insecurities around body image (and trust me, my body image issues go back a lot further than hers and were very severe for a long time). Instead the real work came in exploring her issues and dealing with the root problems, which were not me occasionally noticing somebody's attractiveness. 

Sometimes the best way to respect a person you love is to walk with them through their issues. Sometimes the seemingly wrong spouse IS being disrespectful and needs to change. 

But sometimes the hurt spouse, due to deeper issues, is being unreasonable or unrealistic and they need to deal with those issues.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Sometimes the best way to respect a person you love is to walk with them through their issues. Sometimes the seemingly wrong spouse IS being disrespectful and needs to change.
> 
> But sometimes the hurt spouse, due to deeper issues, is being unreasonable or unrealistic and they need to deal with those issues.


Yes, absolutely. I agree.

What stands out for me in your story is that both you and your wife have utmost respect for each other. You love and trust each other. She never had these problems before. And, to top it off, when she had some issues you walked through them with her. 

More to the point: You didn't just dismiss her outright, or expect her to live up to some double standard that you held for her, but not yourself.

This sort of stuff makes all the difference in the world. OP described a foundation of lost trust, one where he was dismissive, lying and entitled. Where he gets to do what he wants, but one wonders how he'd respond if she were to do the same sorts of things.

In that context, basically telling her that something is wrong with her (but not him, of course, he is exactly like every other normal male) seems pretty presumptive and a bit mean. 

Although, I have to say, I was happy to see that you at least framed it as a *human* tendency, rather than just a male one. The intense double-standards I so often see here get me down.


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