# Double Standard?



## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

There is a clear double standard on TAM, when it comes to sexless marriages.


Perhaps I am wrong, but I notice that the advice given is gender biased.


Women are told that their emotions outweigh their husband's sexual needs, while men are advised to be more romantic and emotionally available-even though they may resent the lack of sex. Very little sympathy is shown for a male member's negative feelings. 

Does anyone else notice this as well? Why do you think such a difference has occured?


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

FirstYearDown said:


> There is a clear double standard on TAM, when it comes to sexless marriages.
> 
> 
> Perhaps I am wrong, but I notice that the advice given is gender biased.
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

too many disney movies


----------



## Hubby01 (Jul 5, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> There is a clear double standard on TAM, when it comes to sexless marriages.
> 
> 
> Perhaps I am wrong, but I notice that the advice given is gender biased.
> ...


:smthumbup: uh huh!

I think it's simple people the dismiss a mans sexual urge as purely physical and something that a wife volunteers for when the husband is good. In the real world or a "normal" functional marriage, it's something both parties should enjoy without keeping score.

If that were the case we would have a simple barter system where dishes=HJ, the washing=BJ and mowing lawns=sex.

Granted we all look at sex differently, but I get ZERO affection from my wife, whilst committing every day to try and meet her needs around the house and emotionally. She gives 1% of the effort to meeting my needs that I give to meeting hers.

With the exception of the fact that she's the mother of my child, I couldn't care less any more.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Let's see - I've been on TAM for about six months now, I think. Here's some of the things that I've observed:

- I've noticed more men than women posting complaining about sexless marriages. We do get women complaining, but just not in the same proportions as we do the men. And it'd be great if we could get more women to post (like from the LD wife), but I don't know if they don't see it as a problem or if they get scared away when they do post or if they start looking through old threads. Sometimes there can be a backlash when some of the women post about not wanting sex with their H's and I think they get scared off. I've not seen many of them return to their threads if there was some bashing or debating going on.

- I've noticed lots of similarities in situations. For the sexless men, you try and ferret out what is going on - do they follow the 'nice guy' pattern whereby they get all their self-worth from their wives - do they really understand what their contribution is to the marital problems - do they understand what their wife's is - do they understand what their wife needs? Are both willing to work at it? Lots of things can go on.

- For the sexless women, some of them come with problems with their husbands having no drive. I haven't been able to really know what to say in those cases - just give 'em a list of possible causes and start working the list, or if they come across in their post as kind of clingy or needy, let them look at the thermostat stuff and see if it sinks in (we had one gal on here recently who has had great success with implementing that.)

- I've only seen a very few posts from women that you could tell they were really 'with' it (like poster bettertimes, but she hasn't returned to give any updates, but she was really receptive to working on trying to meet her husband's needs), and when you suggested they try and meet their husband's needs were realy enthusiastic about it. That's too bad - I have some really great articles for gals about understanding their husband's sex drives.  

But I don't think there's as many gals who post with as much of a willingness to try - that's just an observation though. Most of them can't seem to rev up enough oomph for their husbands because they're so disconnected from them so it's difficult for them.

We also have heartbreaking ones - where the H's are really cruel or abusive - hard to recommend they have more sex in those cases. You just sometimes want to tell them to find the door instead.

Have you ever noticed there are 'themes'? Like every week I'll notice there's some trend that week about common issues or problems. It's kind of interesting. Like a few juicy posts bring out other posters with the same problem.

I also think posters gravitate to posts that speak to them personally. I know I do. I've not a clue how to handle the ones that come in and seem to be infideltiy issues, but there are others very adept at handling those.

It's certainly always interesting and entertaining. And I'm sure it is skewed based upon our own personal interests and experiences. But's that's why it's interesting having a wide variety of people participate - so you can see all different sides.


----------



## NoIssues (Oct 9, 2011)

Its not a double standard, its an undeniable reality that men and women are different as a result of culture and/or biochemistry. 

Others can argue which came first the culture or the bio. 

Women need to be pursued to not be resentful a the biggest sexual organ is her mind. (romance novel) If you dont pursue her, over time, you can forget it. Women may prefer sex but pursuit need trumps it involuntarily

Men need sex in order not to be resentful. Men may prefer appreciation but sex trumps it. Dont put out and over time, its over.

Books like his needs her needs which I am not in total agreement with, highlights that differences between men and women are as old as the earth.

There are exceptions, misunderstood love languages, the ol my situation doesnt fit stuff, neurotic behavior and other mental illness, baggage, addiction, anger and other issues that throw of the WTF is worng reader meter but boil it all down to its simpolest form and women need pursuit and men need sex. 

If they are getting that, then all the other good stuff falls into place. 

Each is all too happy to meet the other secondary needs of the other.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I am generally on the side of the men more so - for 2 reasons, I feel much guilt for missing it in the past and hurting my husband out of pure ignorance and... having experienced both sides of this....I personally KNOW, have felt the depths of want and NEED as the sexually driven Higher driver, so much so -that I even made comments to my dear husband -had I not been getting enough, I swore to him, I was not sure if I could have controlled myself if a hot guy came on to me. Now that is a nasty thing to say to your spouse, isn't it !? .....But I was just trying to convey just HOW freaking "strong" those urges were for me. He understood that, and did not hold those words against me.

He did tell me he didn't believe I could ever do that -no matter what came out of my mouth. He was hardly worried as he made it his daily JOY to take care of me. If all spouses had this kind of SPIRIT & love, how many marriages could grow wings and rise above it all. 

But of coarse this furthered my tears - to know how I was not there for him in this way -when he felt as I. And I can't go back in time and make up for it.




> For the sexless women, some of them come with problems with their husbands having no drive. I haven't been able to really know what to say in those cases - just give 'em a list of possible causes and start working the list, or if they come across in their post as kind of clingy or needy, let them look at the thermostat stuff and see if it sinks in (we had one gal on here recently who has had great success with implementing that.)


 They do feel clingy & needy- and so alone, who can relate to them, I think it is harder on women to be in this situation. It would have did me in if my husband wasn't there for me. Then they get around their girlfriends who are complaining their husbands won't leave them alone, at this point they want to SHAKE these women! They feel more alone, envious, angry. At least the men are generally in the same boat, never lacking for company. 

Pulling away more after his not caring -would only escalate her resentment. I truly feel for these women.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I think most sexless marriages are due to anger and resentment between the couple. My wife said so many mean, husrtful , enasculating things that I had no intetion of approaching her for sex. And, that pissed her off. But, who wants to be intimate with someone who is abusive.


----------



## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> Women are told that their emotions outweigh their husband's sexual needs.


Maybe it's just the threads I've chosen to read (I don't read them all, I just read the ones that appeal to me for one reason or another) but I haven't seen this. Instead, I've seen dozens and dozens of posts, the one right after the other, saying the same thing to the man who wants more sex, which is basically, 

"if that were me, I would have left after ______ (2 weeks, 2 months, a year, etc)".

Basically telling the husband that he should just leave, it's not worth staying in a sexless marriage.

Whereas I've seen women whose husbands want more sex being told, again over and over:

"you, as a woman, will just NEVER understand how important and necessary sex is to a man. NEVER. Just accept it and do it and your marriage will be fine."

When it's a woman who wants more sex, the advice seems to be more constructive - more delving into the individual situation to figure out what is going on. When it's a man who wants less sex - well I haven't seen a lot of those posts, if any.


----------



## Nikki1023 (Sep 24, 2011)

Hubby01 said:


> :smthumbup: uh huh!
> 
> I think it's simple people the dismiss a mans sexual urge as purely physical and something that a wife volunteers for when the husband is good. In the real world or a "normal" functional marriage, it's something both parties should enjoy without keeping score.
> 
> ...



I DEF think its disgusting and true that some people in relationships exchange sex for favors. I have seen a woman pinky promise her husband sex if he did the laundry that night for her. But I have also heard a man say to a woman, you bought 200 dollar sunglasses..you better put out tonight. 

I think some people have completely forgot what sex is all about, and its kind of sad. It should not be viewed as something that is only given if a persons needs or wants are meant in other aspects of life. I think this is why so many married people have issues in the bedroom. 

As a woman, Yes I do want my emotional needs met by my husband, and when they are..the sex is just that much better. But I would never dangle it over his head and only give it to him for favors, I need sex just like he does, no doubt about that. I think that using sex as leverage is pathetic, and in all honesty..a person who would do something like that is either 1. not that happy with their sex life..or 2. desperate for sex. 

But I do also believe that people who have a crappy sex life before they are married, will have a crappy sex life when they are married. So if sex is that important to you, you should rethink your life choice partner..I know I wouldnt be able to be married to someone who didnt meet my sexual needs and desires ( Unless it was something they couldnt help..ie being sick or whatever) But this is something that should be decided BEFORE marriage..not AFTER you made the commitment.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

FirstYearDown



FirstYearDown said:


> There is a clear double standard on TAM, when it comes to sexless marriages.
> 
> 
> Perhaps I am wrong, but I notice that the advice given is gender biased.


I went back and read some of your posts here and I think I know exactly what you're talking about and perhaps even a particular participant you had in mind



FirstYearDown said:


> Women are told that their emotions outweigh their husband's sexual needs, while men are advised to be more romantic and emotionally available-even though they may resent the lack of sex.


I think your perception is perfectly valid. I've only been here a short while, but I'm a voracious reader. It certainly does appear that when a woman is experiencing low sex drive, it somehow works out to be some failing on the part of the man. 

If he's assertive, then he's being demanding and selfish. If he's kind and considerate, then he's being 'too nice.' If he initiates physical intimacy, then he's being needy. If he waits for her to initiate physical intimacy, then he's being cold and aloof. If he can't sweep her off her feet like a fictionalized character from a romance novel, then perhaps he should read a few. If she only wants sex four times a year, then he should learn to live with that and count his blessings. It goes on and on and on and on. 

On the surface, this does seem terribly unfair, but I think what we're seeing is simply the unintended result of the limitations of an internet discussion board coupled with the basic differences between male and female sexual dysfunction. 

All we can give each other here is words of advice. 

When a woman is experiencing low sex drive regardless of whether it is her fault, his fault or (Far more likely) nobody's fault at all, a change of mood can be exactly what's needed. And internet discussion boards especially lend themselves to assisting with this sort of problem. 

But when a man is experiencing low sex drive, it is simply not normal from a physical standpoint. The male sexual apparatus produces a fluid and this fluid is stored. As with all bodily systems, storage capacity is finite and this manifests itself as a fairly regular desire *and need* for some form of sexual release. (Sorry for putting things in such crass terms)

When this isn't happening, there's not much in the way of advice which will directly fix the problem. (Which pretty much echoes what Enchantment has already said.)

A man might have high blood pressure, poor circulation, low hormone levels, etc. and medication, exercise, a change in diet, vitamins, etc. might help. But none of us can make a physical diagnosis over the internet.


----------



## SockPuppet (May 16, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> Women are told that their emotions outweigh their husband's sexual needs, while men are advised to be more romantic and emotionally available-even though they may resent the lack of sex. Very little sympathy is shown for a male member's negative feelings.


I think it depends on the gender of the individual giving the advice as well.

Women tend to band together with other women in telling them that their emotions are more important than the males sexual needs. Id think this type of coddling to be very unhealthy, although it does hold positive intentions.
If a man comes in suggesting that she turn up the "s1ut in the bedroom", that advice is never taken because someone out there will find problem with the particular language used, and then we have a hijacked thread discussing a fraction of the posters post and advice.
I can only recall a rarity of women giving advice to other women about increasing sex, and this is usually done with great results.

Male and Female advice givers tell men to smarten up and turn up the love and affection to solve a sexless marriage. Given, for this point Id say its the more regular male's who give this type of advice.

For men, Id think they get their wake up call with a swift kick in the ass, and thats why we generally dont "support" their emotional pain, but this ideal is entrenched in the whole "manning-up" phenomena, and getting the man to take responsibility for his place in life and realising that any sadness he brings upon himself. I would consider this healthy advice.


----------



## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Very thoughtful responses about this subject. I love it!

Ocotillo, there are too many women on here who follow this double standard, for me to pick out just one. We could be thinking of the same people though. 

Reading some of the posts made by the majority of female TAM members, leads me to feel that there must be something terribly wrong with me.

I don't need endless wooing, coddling and emotional discussions to enjoy lovemaking with Sexy Husband. I never withhold sex because I am angry or unhappy; I love it too much to do that and manipulation disgusts me. Initiating has never been an issue in my eyes because quite frankly, if I want some kocky I just go for it. He is my husband after all! No need for stupid shyness with the person I pledged to share my life with. We discussed the importance of sex before we were even engaged. :smthumbup:

This is why whenever a man or woman posts about a sexless marriage, my sympathy is usually with the deprived spouse. I am a firm believer in the joy of married sex and anyone who refuses this all the time should not be married. 

Romance novels? Ugh! Nothing but astonishingly bad writing and unrealistic scenarios. I never understood the appeal of that trash.

It helps that we will not have children, to come between the strong sexual bond we have. From what I have read here, motherhood tends to consume a woman's identity and make her forget who she had the children with. I like being First Year Down: wife, friend, daughter and student. I have no interest in only being "Mommy." Don't even get me started on wives who only have sex to become moms, only to demote their husbands to Wallet and Sperm Donor. issed:issed:


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I think ANY sexless marriage is a sham and should be given x amount of time to be fixed or file.

Also, a marriage where sex is used as a bartering tool is also a sham, imo.

I'm not kidding. No one gets married to be celibate. That's just stupid.


----------



## misterthhat (Nov 19, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> If he's assertive, then he's being demanding and selfish. If he's kind and considerate, then he's being 'too nice.' If he initiates physical intimacy, then he's being needy. If he waits for her to initiate physical intimacy, then he's being cold and aloof. If he can't sweep her off her feet like a fictionalized character from a romance novel, then perhaps he should read a few. If she only wants sex four times a year, then he should learn to live with that and count his blessings. It goes on and on and on and on.


Pretty much spot on. It's easy to blame the man, it's a common sterotype that if anything is wrong in a marriage it's the husbands fault one way or another. And even if it isn't it's the husbands responsebility to fix it.

Men are damned if they do, damned if they don't.


----------



## Upset and confused (Nov 1, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> too many disney movies


----------



## Upset and confused (Nov 1, 2011)

misterthhat said:


> Pretty much spot on. It's easy to blame the man, it's a common sterotype that if anything is wrong in a marriage it's the husbands fault one way or another. And even if it isn't it's the husbands responsebility to fix it.
> 
> Men are damned if they do, damned if they don't.


I think I am entering my replies wrong...don't seem to be coming out....what I said is I don't understand why either men or women don't have high sex drives. I think it is the most natural thing and what a wonderful way to show the person you love how much they mean to you!!!


----------



## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

I too have sensed that this forum reflects the social cultures it's partisipants live in. It seems there are are alot of people who live in straight marriages and a lot of the post have the idea that it is the mens duty to be the active partisipant in the relationship and the womens right to be passive, if she so wishes. 

I believe the world is much more diverse - even with straight people. There are passive men who wish to be taken, and women who just wish to be the more active person in the relationship. And then there are the rainbow-relationships (gay/lesbian/bi/trans/poly), in which the genders just can't be used to define what duties or rights any person in the relationship has. 

But I think the most important messages are present in many of the post (communication, defining and setting boundaries etc.). Wether the post is about manning up (boundaries) or discussing your emotions (communication), the message is there - even if there are gender-based expectations in there aswell. 

My partner is same-sex as I am, so that influences how I read the posts on any message board. I do think that some of the advices with heavy gender-norm based expectations (that men should be active and figure out what they are doing wrong etc.) can be harmful. I think the most important thing any of us can do is figure ourselves out (the boundaries, wants/needs/etc.) and learn communication-skills and see if by doing those it possible to repair something that has been broken or has always been broken in the relationship.


----------



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Upset and confused said:


> I think I am entering my replies wrong...don't seem to be coming out....what I said is I don't understand why either men or women don't have high sex drives. I think it is the most natural thing and what a wonderful way to show the person you love how much they mean to you!!!


That's how I view it, but I'm a guy and I guess that's just me being too simple minded. I always wondered how a person goes week after week in a relationship that is without major issues, like cheating or abuse, with someone they cared enough about to marry, yet they have no desire for sex. Sure, there may be dislikes and things one is not happy with, but how do you just shut down sexual desire? But again, that's just me being a guy I suppose.


----------



## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> There is a clear double standard on TAM, when it comes to sexless marriages.
> 
> 
> Perhaps I am wrong, but I notice that the advice given is gender biased.
> ...


I don't really see that posters spend time judging the people who come with a problem. A guy comes with zero sex life, asking how he can make it better, what good is it to tell him how his wife needs to get her act together? Sure, if she's self-absorbed, and it doesn't work, he'll hopefully show up in the Divorce section. Since few of us are mariage therapists or sex therapists, we give advice based on what we've observed.

I'd be really nice if a poster says something like, "my wife really has a high sex drive, but I can't get my sh!t together in the romance department, so she yawns when we have sex", or "she likes to be pursued, and I really do pursue her, but resentment stops her from wanting it from me," but I've never seen such a honest self-assessment. So, posters deal with what they got.


----------



## misterthhat (Nov 19, 2011)

Halien said:


> I don't really see that posters spend time judging the people who come with a problem. A guy comes with zero sex life, asking how he can make it better, what good is it to tell him how his wife needs to get her act together? Sure, if she's self-absorbed, and it doesn't work, he'll hopefully show up in the Divorce section. Since few of us are mariage therapists or sex therapists, we give advice based on what we've observed.


If a woman were to make a thread about how they have zero sex life and that the husband doesn't want it. Nobody would say that it's up to her to change, up her game, take responsebility and do something about it.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Don't know don't care not worried about it anymore.


----------



## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

misterthhat said:


> If a woman were to make a thread about how they have zero sex life and that the husband doesn't want it. Nobody would say that it's up to her to change, up her game, take responsebility and do something about it.


You missed the point. In your same scenario, a responder can say that her husband needs to get his act together. We can spend 20 paragraphs talking about what he can do to get his act together ... but he isn't the one who posted the thread. Frankly, I'd have to tell her that it is time for ultimatums, because that's something that the person posting the situation can actually do. 

If 10 guys come here with relationships where the wife never wants sex, point is we're going to tell 10 people the same thing if they have similar circumstances. That's not bias. The bias is in the 10 people with the same situation who come her to post.

We have a dichotomy that exists among posters in regards to posts where a wife does not have sex with her husband very often. Some tell the man to make sure that he understands her needs, leaving it open as to whether he actually does. Maybe some do always blame the man instead, but I see it more as just offering one opinion among many who reply. Others tend to blame the woman. Each of us can only reply based on what works for us, in our own experiences.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Halien said:


> If 10 guys come here with relationships where the wife never wants sex, point is we're going to tell 10 people the same thing if they have similar circumstances. That's not bias.


I agree. To actually demonstrate bias, we would need to compare the advice given to these 10 men with the advice given to 10 women who come here with relationships where the husband never wants sex, which is what I think the respondent to your initial comment may have been driving at.

Some of the participants here have post counts in the thousands and it has been relatively easy to compare the advice they typically give men who's wives suffer from low libido with the advice they typically give women who's husbands suffer from low libido. 

This is not intended as a criticism; --I've already explained why I believe a facial difference exists.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Halien said:


> Maybe some do always blame the man instead, but I see it more as just offering one opinion among many who reply. Others tend to blame the woman. Each of us can only reply based on what works for us, in our own experiences.


Even if just one little sentence out of 20 posts helps clue the poster in to something, a light bulb moment, that may help them , give a little peace, open a new door of " I have not tried that yet!", or "Geeze, I might be seeing this all wrong, let me think about that!"... then it is all so worth it, our stories, if they just might be relateable. 

Also extending a little sympathy to those posters who are feeling hurt & alone, is a good thing to do. Even if others may feel they are selfish, I try to gleem some good in there, some redeeming quality, I think we are all selfish to some extent anyway, so who are we to judge. So a little sympathy can help someone not feel so alone & more apt to open up on here to dissect further of thier situation. 

As truly, very few open up to friends about these very intimate issues.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Halien said:


> I don't really see that posters spend time judging the people who come with a problem. A guy comes with zero sex life, asking how he can make it better, what good is it to tell him how his wife needs to get her act together? Sure, if she's self-absorbed, and it doesn't work, he'll hopefully show up in the Divorce section. Since few of us are mariage therapists or sex therapists, we give advice based on what we've observed.
> 
> I'd be really nice if a poster says something like, "my wife really has a high sex drive, but I can't get my sh!t together in the romance department, so she yawns when we have sex", or "she likes to be pursued, and I really do pursue her, but resentment stops her from wanting it from me," but I've never seen such a honest self-assessment. So, posters deal with what they got.


Hammer meets nail.


----------



## Prometheus Pyrphoros (Jun 16, 2011)

Of course it's a double standard.

Each case of marriage is specific and should be viewed as such, but it is my belief that the majority (or just a statistically significant share) of low sex marriages are the result of one thing:

- THEY BOTH MARRIED THE WRONG PERSON

I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this but people just go ahead with some things in life because that's how the society taught them it should be done.

"We've been together for some time, now we'll get married (because that's what everybody does and why should we think otherwise)."

Another opinion of mine which will not be popular here, especially amongst those who always advise working on a relationship, emotional needs of a woman (but really just jumping through hoops), is to not be afraid to let it go and seek happiness elsewhere. Even if there are children involved.
As for that emotional needs thing, romance etc. and all the hoops so the wife will consider REWARDING you with some poontang, how come often these things come up mostly after getting married, and not before? Did you have to do all that to get laid before you got married? If yes, then you're stupid to do so. If not, the woman executed a classic bait and switch manouver. No excuses there.
We all get to live just one life and end up in the cold earth, don't be afraid to make a drastic change to break up a life of misery.

But the most important thing is to think through before you get married, who is this person beside me? Do I really know her/him? What part of our relationship is an act, what will change after we get married? I know this isn't easy, one can spend 20 years beside someone and not really know him/her. But please, just don't live in a fairy tale thinking "Oh I'm gonna marry her, I'll be the provider, father, protector etc and this makes me feel empowered and I'll be entitled to getting what I need." It just doesn't work that way. Or do, but make sure to get an early price on that penis cage thingy.


----------



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Prometheus Pyrphoros said:


> Of course it's a double standard.
> 
> Each case of marriage is specific and should be viewed as such, but it is my belief that the majority (or just a statistically significant share) of low sex marriages are the result of one thing:
> 
> ...


I was married for 18 years and my wife divorced me because she was the classic, "unhappy." At this point, I'm willing to entertain the idea that we were wrong for each other, but that is what makes this relationship thing seem even more complicated.

Why? Even as I look back now being 18 years wiser, there were no warning signs. We seemed perfect for each other and were in love. I can't look back and see a single thing that would have been a red flag. 

So, if a marriage that got off to a wonderful like start like mine could end, then that means there are no true signs of whether two people should or shouldn't get married, unless somebody knows something I don't.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

E,
One theme that DOES jump out is this: guy comes on and says "I have been sexless for ... Long time ..." and have tried. X,y and z. My W tells me things are fine and I have the problem not WE have a problem. Many female posters proceed to tell him some very basic: be nicer, try harder stuff.
How about ask him some questions first? And the first one might be: why doesn't your wife feel it is a Joint issue?
Followed by: what did you do as this trend emerged?

I do think sometimes someone marries you because they like or love what You do for them. Not because they like or love YOU. And that is a largely insolvable problem if you allow the pattern to persist for a year. Because you have reinforced their theory that you exist to serve them.




Enchantment said:


> Let's see - I've been on TAM for about six months now, I think. Here's some of the things that I've observed:
> 
> - I've noticed more men than women posting complaining about sexless marriages. We do get women complaining, but just not in the same proportions as we do the men. And it'd be great if we could get more women to post (like from the LD wife), but I don't know if they don't see it as a problem or if they get scared away when they do post or if they start looking through old threads. Sometimes there can be a backlash when some of the women post about not wanting sex with their H's and I think they get scared off. I've not seen many of them return to their threads if there was some bashing or debating going on.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SB,
Your posts are so sad. Your W was never really in love with you. You represented a stable comfortable life for her. B

At risk of sounding shallow - when a woman loves you as opposed to what you do for her - it shows up in bed. That is how females are wired. 
Your lack of frequency, her lack of willingness to try new things and AND the total absence of her giving you oral sex were all big red flags.
I hope you find a woman who really loves you next time.

UOTE=southbound;488917]I was married for 18 years and my wife divorced me because she was the classic, "unhappy." At this point, I'm willing to entertain the idea that we were wrong for each other, but that is what makes this relationship thing seem even more complicated.

Why? Even as I look back now being 18 years wiser, there were no warning signs. We seemed perfect for each other and were in love. I can't look back and see a single thing that would have been a red flag. 

So, if a marriage that got off to a wonderful like start like mine could end, then that means there are no true signs of whether two people should or shouldn't get married, unless somebody knows something I don't.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

PP,
I dated and married with one simple premise: we both deserve to be loved. At points in the marriage we have both firmly told the other what WE needed. An awful lot of folks seem willing to let their spouses break the first vow....

UOTE=Prometheus Pyrphoros;487329]Of course it's a double standard.

Each case of marriage is specific and should be viewed as such, but it is my belief that the majority (or just a statistically significant share) of low sex marriages are the result of one thing:

- THEY BOTH MARRIED THE WRONG PERSON

I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this but people just go ahead with some things in life because that's how the society taught them it should be done.

"We've been together for some time, now we'll get married (because that's what everybody does and why should we think otherwise)."

Another opinion of mine which will not be popular here, especially amongst those who always advise working on a relationship, emotional needs of a woman (but really just jumping through hoops), is to not be afraid to let it go and seek happiness elsewhere. Even if there are children involved.
As for that emotional needs thing, romance etc. and all the hoops so the wife will consider REWARDING you with some poontang, how come often these things come up mostly after getting married, and not before? Did you have to do all that to get laid before you got married? If yes, then you're stupid to do so. If not, the woman executed a classic bait and switch manouver. No excuses there.
We all get to live just one life and end up in the cold earth, don't be afraid to make a drastic change to break up a life of misery.

But the most important thing is to think through before you get married, who is this person beside me? Do I really know her/him? What part of our relationship is an act, what will change after we get married? I know this isn't easy, one can spend 20 years beside someone and not really know him/her. But please, just don't live in a fairy tale thinking "Oh I'm gonna marry her, I'll be the provider, father, protector etc and this makes me feel empowered and I'll be entitled to getting what I need." It just doesn't work that way. Or do, but make sure to get an early price on that penis cage thingy.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Even if just one little sentence out of 20 posts helps clue the poster in to something, a light bulb moment, that may help them , give a little peace, open a new door of " I have not tried that yet!", or "Geeze, I might be seeing this all wrong, let me think about that!"... then it is all so worth it, our stories, if they just might be relateable.
> 
> Also extending a little sympathy to those posters who are feeling hurt & alone, is a good thing to do. Even if others may feel they are selfish, I try to gleem some good in there, some redeeming quality, I think we are all selfish to some extent anyway, so who are we to judge. So a little sympathy can help someone not feel so alone & more apt to open up on here to dissect further of thier situation.
> 
> As truly, very few open up to friends about these very intimate issues.


SA, You really should consider writing a book..... really!


----------



## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> I do think sometimes someone marries you because they like or love what You do for them. Not because they like or love YOU. And that is a largely insolvable problem if you allow the pattern to persist for a year. Because you have reinforced their theory that you exist to serve them.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ths hits my marriage right on the head. The ****ed up part is, I recognized this pretty early and did nothing to stop it until it became a massive problem.


----------



## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

SockPuppet said:


> Women tend to band together with other women in telling them that their emotions are more important than the males sexual needs. Id think this type of coddling to be very unhealthy, although it does hold positive intentions.
> If a man comes in suggesting that she turn up the "s1ut in the bedroom", that advice is never taken because someone out there will find problem with the particular language used, and then we have a hijacked thread discussing a fraction of the posters post and advice.
> I can only recall a rarity of women giving advice to other women about increasing sex, and this is usually done with great results.
> 
> ...


Well said.

Women are coddled more. This is often done by other women who simply identify with the woman based on common gender. And also by men who don't want to appear being mean to a woman.

Men are often given little sympathy by either gender. Which is ultimately a good thing.


----------

