# We always fight over finances. Whatever I do for her is never enough



## techer22 (Apr 14, 2013)

This is my first post in this forum. I have thought about this long and hard, but I don't know what else I can do. Hope I can find some answers from folks who have faced similar issues.

I am a recent immigrant to this amazing country. The first paycheck I ever earned in my life was in this country at a university food court. That paid $6.5 an hour. I am now 29, with a Masters degree and working for a tech company making a little over $120k including bonus, so yeah, I am doing pretty well financially. I have always been careful with my money. Enjoy the food and wine, spend some on travel and clothes, give back a little to charity and save in 401k and stocks. And then I got married at age 28. My wife is an internationally trained dentist and wishes to practice in America. She would need to undergo 2 years of Dental School in US to get a license. She has never practiced before, nor has she ever had a steady source of income. 

She is not earning right now; not an issue. In fact if she never brings in anything, I am fine with that too. But the first year of our marriage was rough. For example, I never understood why she needed a $30 conditioner that only lasts a month. I didn't stop her, but thing like that bothered me. Anyway, we had a good discussion about it and I understood that I just need to let go of things. I have a budget and I let her spend on whatever she wants, as long as it's within the budget; no need to micromanage. Things got a little better after the first year, I rarely stopped her from buying things she wants (different than needs). Another big expense is her applications to universities. Dental school applications are not cheap, it takes about $500 to apply to each school and this year we are applying to 15 schools, so $7.5k have been set aside for this expense. And then there are her exams and certifications and books. And then there is the usual rent, groceries, utilities, phone bills, car payments, insurance, restaurants, shopping etc etc. I love my wife, and to help her get started with dental school, I have saved about $60k for her tuition. That's about 2 years of my savings, and we have been married only for 18 months. Dental school would cost around $200k, so the rest would be in loans which she would be paying off later. Bottomline, I thought I am doing good by her. Giving her a comfortable life, putting her needs first. It's always in the back of my mind that I shouldn't let her feel I am the one bringing in the money. We spend what we make as a couple. And by and large that has worked.

But she says the most hurtful things some times. She tells me that she is scared to spend on things in the mall because I would not approve. She also says that given an item, she picks the lowest cost item available. She also says that I don't spend a lot, and she doesnt understand why I save so much money? I don't know if I save a lot of money, but I definitely don't like living on the edge. That money in the bank account buys some peace of mind, that if I lose my job, we will have something to get by till I get another one. Also, its really really hurtful when I work my ass off at work and provide for the family, only to hear from her that I give her the perception that money is tight and she needs to be careful where she spends. And maybe let's assume that it's true, but isn't that life? I mean, we all can't get whatever we desire. There needs to be balance. But if I say NO to some things, I am a cheapo.

She says she will spend when she get's her DDS and starts earning. I am fine with that. I didn't marry her for the prospect of money. It's like this passive aggression; I don't know why she tells me that. Even if she does share the money she earns with me, I dont know what I would do with it. Don't need it now, don't need it then.

Every time the topic of finances comes up, we end up fighting. I recently told her that I may be getting a promotion and a decent raise this year as I really have been slogging off at work. I was thinking of doubling my 401k contribution from 4.5 percent to 10 percent. That would take care of our retirement needs, and I find tremendous peace of mind with that. The downside is I will get a take home paycheck of what I was getting before the promotion. My wife is not on board with that idea. She feels I save too much.

I really don't know how to talk to her regarding finances. Sometimes I think she will understand things once she starts earning. That what you are promised and what you get once you factor in taxes, rent, endless bills and then saving for retirement takes a major chunk away. And then what you are left with, you *try* to be happy with it.

I am open to suggestions. If you guys feel there is something I can improve on, please let me know. I also firmly believe you cannot control people. I can only change things that are under my control -- my outlook and my actions.

Thank You!


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## hehasmyheart (Mar 11, 2010)

I think you sound very wise in wanting to save, and not gratifying every little want you might have at the moment.

She probably feels guilty splurging just for the fact that you don't do it for yourself. Since you're earning all the income right now, and not spending much, she feels like she shouldn't be either. Just give each of you a certain amount of spending money that you can spend on whatever and don't have to answer for. So, if she wanted $30 conditioner, she wouldn't have to tell you how much it was. In this way, she won't feel like you're being controlling with the money, or like you're the parent asking how much she spent on items.

Just come up with creative ideas on how to keep the peace. Try to come up with a balance between the two of you. Likely, you learned to be more of a saver, and she learned to be more of a spender. You can often look at these patterns in families. Just don't get to where she sees you as selfish, it will cause problems.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

You're right and she's wrong. You know wealth, not income per se, is what matters financially. Living below your means is a necessity. Does your wife know you should save at least 10% of your income for retirement? And that you should have an emergency fund of 6 months expenses (12 if you are the sole earner)?

You make good money. $120k puts you in the top 10%. Some would say that's not "real" money, but most would argue you should meet your needs (including saving) on what you make now. While your wife does not say you don't make enough, her emphasis on living even better than she does now and what she's going to do with her money when she's a DDS is trouble for both of you.

People can have a disconnect between what a good income is, and what that income will (and will not) achieve. It's like "$100k is more than most people make; why can't we afford" whatever it is. I think your wife has this problem, and you are not helping.

You are shielding her from financial reality by putting her before yourself and coming up with a huge chunk of her tuition. Right now, putting yourself second to support her fuels her "there's plenty for me, you don't really need to do without" attitude. Later, paying for a huge chunk of her school allows her to enjoy the income of a dentist without feeling the full sting of the investment needed to generate that income.

Besides, if she's already was a dentist overseas, why are you making all the finances happen? I can't think of a place where professional doctorate holders don't make an above-average income. I'm curious as why you are doing everything now and what happened to her earnings before marriage.

If I were you, first of all I would continue to save. Second, I would not subordinate myself to her to make the saving happen. Enjoy yourself and let her make do with less. Third, given her money attitude, I would have her pay for all her schooling and associated expenses (applications, licensure and exam fees, review courses, etc). If we say that the total cost for all that is around $225k, it would cost her around $2k a month for 30 years in loan payments (a mortgage, essentially). She needs to feel the impact of what it costs for her to be dentist.

Third, you need to set expectations around her contribution to the household. If she's making as much as you (if not more) she needs to contribute as much as you (if not more). And, that includes savings as well as current expenses. You don't want a situation where she's spent everything she makes, wants to retire, and looks to you (the saver) to make it happen. Alternatively, watching you retire while she continues to work might cause resentment, and you want to avoid that also.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

It's possible that she has a "shopping/spending addiction", and like a person addicted to drugs, she is blaming you when she feels that she can't have what she really wants to buy.


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## pb76no (Nov 1, 2012)

I know you said her not earning now is not an issue, but:
1) Why isn't she earning?
2) What is she doing?
It is an issue because it is not just about the money, it is about a sense of contribution. Your views on money, particularly on savings, are very important and very sound.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tell her that, when SHE gets her degree, then she can spend all of her own money on herself. But until then, you are giving her a budget of $500/month and if she wants more than that, she can go get a part-time job to pay for it.

And go read No More Mr Nice Guy.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

Techer, your wife needs to grow up! She is acting like a rebellious teen. Gosh, you have $60k for her tuition and you pay the $7,500 for school applications, and she is still not satisfied?!? If you don't yet have children, I would consider divorcing her. A woman like her can really drag a marriage down to hell.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

You wrote, "But she says the most hurtful things some times. She tells me that she is scared to spend on things in the mall because I would not approve. She also says that given an item, she picks the lowest cost item available. She also says that I don't spend a lot, and she doesn't understand why I save so much money? But isn't that accurate particularly as you questioned her purchase of conditioner. Some advice. 

1. Marriage is a partnership. Yu are going to have to be flexible. Some pre-marital counseling focuses on spending and savings habits. 

2. It will be good when she works. Many women want their own money. Until that happens, I would urge you concentrate less on savings than your marriage, recognize that even though you work finances are a mutual decision.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

Bobby, good advise, but one cannot concentrate on one's marriage without bringing in issues of finance.


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## Cinema79 (Aug 30, 2013)

A good woman would kill to be married to you. You are provider...and you are doing your part.

Don't worry, I was married a very high-maintenance materialistic woman who didn't think my 70K was enough, and she was pulling 35K a year.

We did nicely: Beautiful suburban home, new cars, great clothing, jewelry and had no kids - but it wasn't enough!

We divorced, and she found a guy who makes around 110K per year. Apparently that extra 30K was oh so appealing! 

Read this article:
How Materialism Harms a Marriage | For Your Marriage 

and set some boundaries with your over privileged wife. There are families out there who struggle to make over 60K combined who are far happier in life and love each other for who they are.


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## Obennyl (Sep 3, 2013)

I understand where you are coming from. I would say first and foremost, you need to look at the bigger picture. It sounds like you make plenty of money and you are saving adequately, so I don't think you need to worry about that. After all, you can't take it with you...right? Be thankful for your good fortune and be sure to give back. To answer your question...I believe that sometimes, arguments about money are really about something else. Perhaps your wife feels that you love money more than you love her. Perhaps her desire to have your okay with how she spends money is actually her way of searching for reassurance that you love her. I would say that, unless you feel that she has a real problem/addiction, you should lighten up. Let go of your need for control and trust your wife not to run you into the poor house. If you absolutely cannot do that, perhaps you could sit down and agree on a plan to allow her "x" amount of money each month to spend any way she wants and don't question her on that. Then after she becomes a wage earner, sit down and agree on who pays what bills. And remember, as long as you are married, your earnings are hers and vice versa. Never say "my money." You sound like a nice person and I'm sorry if this was not what you wanted to hear.


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## Boottothehead (Sep 3, 2013)

Maybe the two of you need to visit a financial counselor/planner together. If she can see your strategic vision laid out, maybe she won't think that you are a "cheapo." Honestly, you sound like a super swell guy, as well as a planner, to me. And maybe she feels guilty because she's not contributing, so she (consciously or not) throws that back onto you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

About the $60,000 you have saved for her tuition. My suggestion is that you not spend that $60K on tuition. Instead her tuition should be paid by student loans that are paid out of her income over time. This is not marital/community debt. It’s her sole debt. If anything were to happen to your marriage, she will take that debt with her. 

I suggest that you and your wife read the book "Smart Couples Finish Rich". It will explain to your wife why you are saving and handling the finances as you are in terms that she should be able to understand.

The very basic rules are that:

All money both of you earn goes into a joint account.

10% of your income goes into savings (401K) for long term.

5%-10% -- Some agreed upon amount goes into savings for big purchase, vacations, etc

All bills, groceries, etc are paid.

Any money left over is split 50/50 between the two of you to spend and/or save as you please as individuals. Doing this usually takes the pressure off that your wife is feeling. She has money that she can spend and not have to answer to you for how she spends it.

The book as a lot more detail.


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## aeasty (Jun 5, 2013)

OP your in the right but don't pay for her collage that is personal debt and is a driving force behind her to get work out of collage! I know how you feel and I wish I had of seen the signs earlier in my marriage would of atleast forewarned me about a few things. In Australia its a little different the avg wage here is about 60k a year but I was an exception to that and at a young age I am making 170k plus a few bonuses and perks my ex wife thought I was a tight arse with money but I would spend it on items that would make returns like investing in a small business and I brought a few blocks of land out of town very cheap that prime locations and have now started venturing into joint property ownership with a few like minded people. explain to her that you want to be wealthy not rich Wealth can not be spent and exhausted by one generation. I was handed nothing from my parents but my education which I left early to start working my brother on the other hand had cars and jobs and more given to him and now he is hopeless and expects the world to be giving to him without working for it


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## SScaterpillar (Oct 30, 2011)

You sound quite reasonable to me. It's quite possible that she just doesn't have an adult's idea of the realities of finances just yet. Money-wise, you are doing everything right. I'm impressed and would love to be that way. Hopefully when I graduate, I'll be able to set aside money rather than it all having to go to bills. 

I have worked full time since I was 15. My husband worked nearly full time starting at 15. We both have always maintained jobs, regardless of how much they brought in. We know that a steady flow of income is crucial and if you get laid off, go work at a restaurant or $8/hr job until you can find a permanent job. It's just reality. However, it sounds as though she didn't grow up that way, so she has no concept of money. My sister-in-law is this way. She has never had a job and has been in school for teaching for the last 15 years with no apparent end in sight. She hounds my brother about bringing in money (they don't live together...they've been married for 9 years, have two children and have never lived together) and she refuses to live with him until he can provide a nice life for them. Meanwhile, she lives with her mommy and has a trust fund. She has a new haircut every week, nails done, very nice clothes and accessories, and drives a brand new luxury vehicle. 

My point with my SIL is that there are many "adults" (male and female) who just didn't grow up in reality. They have a very skewed idea of how finances work and until they're ready to hear the truth, they won't accept it or change. 

Your wife may get better about this once she's in school. She might be bored and it's leaving her anxious, thus she goes out and shops. It gives her something to do. Listening to or reading Dave Ramsey is also a great idea. He can prove why living the way you do with your money is ideal. 

Also, make sure you're being honest about yourself. Are you really not nagging? Are you really not making her feel bad? Are you really not being a "cheap-o" with her? I had an ex who held my own income hostage and we weren't married nor were we living together (we both lived with our parents). He refused to allow me to spend my own money. He said I was too crazy with it. (I was! I also lived with my parents, so I could do that if I wanted to.) We fought a lot about that (and other things), but he was very controlling and abusive. He would have never admitted to being that way and always presented himself around others as this sweet, loving person when, behind the scenes, he was cruel and mean. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, because you sound sincere. 

I say hang in there. She'll learn. She just needs to mature quite a bit.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

If you have your safety net savings, you should be maxing out that 401k now, not after the raise! You can't get back the benefit of tax deferral or any matching that is available.

She should finance her own schooling and applications. You chould give her an allowance and not question how she spends it.

She needs to mature a bit. Not certian why she isn't working at SOMETHING....


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## rdl3 (Oct 7, 2013)

Have either of you have ever thought about her getting a small job. Maybe if she has a job where she is bringing in a small amount of income then she can feel good about earning some of her own money and spending on it whatever she likes rather than always knowing that her purchases are strictly from your earnings.


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