# Suggested Books/Workbooks for DS/WS?



## RichardTornApart (Aug 20, 2011)

Hello All,

I have a question for you the regular posters. My wife had an affair and has made several other decisions that were detrimental to our marriage. I'm still in limbo on what I am going to do. On one hand I want to try to reconcile and on the other hand I want to cut my losses and move on...

In either case, she says she desperately wants to reconcile and will do anything to keep us together. While I don’t think this is healthy (she is literally willing to put the marriage above either of our happiness), I think it is a good opportunity to help her learn a little about herself, affairs, healthy marriages, reconciliation, etc and who knows maybe it could even help her save the marriage.

She says she wants to do whatever it takes, but she doesnt seem to be doing much of anything about it. To be fair, she is also trying to work her 12-step program for AA, take care of 7-month old twins (one of whom cries longer and louder than I ever thought possible), house work, etc, etc. I have told her that to start she needs to create a schedule. With the twins it will not be possible to have a tight schedule, but unless she at least has a prioritized task list, things are not going to end well. She allows herself to be consumed with taking care of the twins and house work. She may just be looking for a distraction so that she doesn’t have to actually work on fixing things. But once she has a prioritized task list then I will see. If she still fails to do what it takes to make progress, then I know what I need to do.

There is one more problem... I know very little about affairs, healthy marriages, reconciliation, etc. And what I am learning is really focused on recovery from the perspective of the BS, not the DS/WS. I can come up with some things that I think would be beneficial, but then I may send her off in completely the wrong direction. What I would really like is a book or two that I could start her off by reading/working through its suggestions, etc. But I am having a hard time finding books/workbooks that focus on recovery from the viewpoint of the DS/WS. Does anyone know of any good material?

Thanks,
Richard


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Love Must Be Tough by James Dobson

After the Affair (Not sure who the author is)


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

I have a list of several sources on my blog...linked below.


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## Cypress (May 26, 2011)

Rich,

A great book is 'Not Just Friends' by Shirley Glass. It is balanced and very informative.

Cypress


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

I read all your threads. So, have you find out the paternity of your twins? By this thread, I speculate that you are leaning toward R?

My honest opinion is that if you find the twins being not yours, and if you are not desperately in love with your WW, then one of the options would be D her and take 15 yr old son(your biological son) with you and let your wife take the twins. 

My reasoning is that you should take the son because your wife has addiction issues and makes her unfit mother to your son. And, as for the twins, if they are not your biological children, you should not raise them as your own unless your heart strongly urges you to do so. Deducing from what you describe about your wife, your future M will be a very rocky one at best, and it is not fair not only for you but also for the twins having to grow up in such volatile environment. 

It may sound harsh but what she does with the twins is her decision. As you already stated in the other thread, her OM may be a good enough guy to make a decent dad to the twins. In a situation like this, one has to be brutally honest and selfish to look out for one's self interest. Don't play a hero or Jesus. Be collective and practical about this.


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## RichardTornApart (Aug 20, 2011)

Jellybeans,

Thanks, I looked at some summaries and reviews of both books. They sound very helpful... I particularly like the idea of "Love Must Be Tough" even though it sounds as if it is intended for the BS who is trying to win back their DS. I think it may serve her well as even though she is the DS, she is the one who is clinging to our marriage and wants desperately to save it. But its hard to say, we have some interesting dynamics in our case, that may make it nearly impossible for her to try those techniques.

Geoffrey,

Thank you, I'll check out the links when I get home tonight. I can get to your site from work, but much of the content is blocked and I can't see it. But I should have no problems once I get home.

Cypress,

Thank you for your recommendation also. I'm not sure I will pick this one up yet, but if we do decide to stay together for the long term I will definitely insist that she read this. I could not believe that she was foolish enough to think that she could have a "friend" of the opposite sex that she could confide about marital and family problems too and that it was a safe environment. It seems so obvious to me and seems like there is no way, anyone in their right mind would think they could do that and not end up in an affair. But clearly this does happen and some people just dont see the danger of certain situations and friendships. So, thanks for the recommendation.

sadcalifornian,

Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate your interest and your advice. Yes, I have found out the paternity. I've suffered multiple crushing blows in the past couple of weeks. I found out that I was not the biological father of either twin (they were so much different in appearance and disposition from each other) and since they are Fraternal and it was technically possible, even though I tried not to, I started thinking that the girl was probably mine and just the boy was not. When it came back that neither of them were mine I took it pretty hard. About two weeks later I found out even more bad news. I have only been with one woman my entire life. Our relationship, including sexual intimacy, did begin before marriage but she was my first partner and has been my only partner for the nearly 20+ years we have been together. Despite the safety and reassurance that this would seem to provide, I now know that I have herpes simplex 1. Furthermore, she has both herpes simplex 1 and 2. Neither of us had either (or any other STDs) previously. So she contracted both from someone outside of our marriage and has given me at least one of them. If I really don’t have type 2, then that means either I resign to the fact that I will get it anyway and practically deliberately let it happen by having unprotected sex, or I would now have to use protection with my wife of 19+ years and the only woman I have ever been with in order to hopefully avoid it. It is difficult to find words to express the things I feel this past 6 weeks or so...

I am far from desperately in love with her now. In fact I find it increasingly difficult to believe that I will be able to get over this and that we have any hope of a lasting recovery. And the option you mention is one of the options that dominate my thoughts. I’m afraid that I’m having difficulty making the decision as easily as I would like to be able to. In so many respects, I wish that she still felt strongly for the OM and wanted to be with him. This would be so much easier.

I would definitely have the 15 year old. He has made it clear that he is tired of her addictions and relapses and lies, etc. He doesn’t know about the affair or the twins right now. But despite that, he has said and she knows that if we do not remain together that he will live with me.

As for the twins, I am struggling with my feelings for them. I wish I were a “better” man and loved them as if they were my own, regardless of what happens to their mother and I. But the truth is even if we stay together I find it very difficult to look at them sometimes. My wife has always wanted a girl and now a stranger has given her one and I will never be able to give her a girl at all, much less her first girl. And I’m told that he looks like the OM. Maybe the only reason I am having difficulty reconnecting to them and feeling the bond that was shattered is because I don’t believe our marriage is going to work. I feel like a horrible person for even thinking the way I do, but I can’t help it. Some people have tried to tell me that paternity means nothing and that finding out that they are not mine should have no impact on how I feel about them?!?!? What?!?!?! Really?!?! Just in case there are any self-righteous types ready to pounce on me for struggling with it, keep your thoughts to yourself unless you have walked a mile in my shoes. I’m beating myself up enough over this one. I don’t need any help.

So you may be wondering… “Richie, what the hell are you doing, why isn’t she out on her rear already”. It is very difficult to articulate and I have started to post about it a couple of times and decided that it would be too long and too boring. So unless you really want to read it all, let’s just say, even though I am struggling with the idea of staying together, I am having an equally difficult time with the idea of what is actually involved in ending it. If you really are a glutton for punishment and want to read the battle waging in my head and heart then let me know and I will try to write it up and post it.

Thanks again to everyone,
Richard


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

I am so sorry to hear the bad news. Even with condom, it's difficult to prevent transmission of herpes, and there is no cure but some drug to supress the symptoms. It is virus.

I think you should detach your feelings and stop introspecting so much. You may have some feelings for the twins despite them being not yours, but you should look in the long run. Raising kids is no picnic in the park. It take sheer sacrifice and dedication and lots and lots of money. Since your older one is already 15, I do not see why you have to commit yourself to the responsibility of raising these kids for another 18 years, moneywise, timewise, affectionwise, etc... The only justification is that despite A, your WW is such a wonderful woman that you just cannot see another woman like her if you D her. In your case, that is not the case. Even without the OC, your effort to stay in this relationship must be strained as it is with her addiction and other issues. 

We often give advice based on what sounds good politically, but here I just want to give you my honest advice and let others throw rocks at me if they want.

I really think you should detach your feelings for WW and OC, and try to see the situation as dry and objectively as you can. Just put your "feelings" aside completely. No love, no guilt, no what morally seems right or wrong. What reason is there for you to stay in this M? Based on your description, I see none! I know it is hard to end M after so many years of history and what not, but with the current situation being what it is, I think you should bail, and not bailing would be crazy. Good people like you sometimes feel guilty leaving someone in dire need of help. Yes, your wife needs help and OC needs help as they are babies. But, you cannot play Mother Theresa here. You may try it for a couple days or a couple months or years, but honestly for the next 18 years? Be realistic!

By having A and OC, your wife already departed from your M and she started her own life now. No matter what the paper says, you should not consider her your wife anymore! What more can she do to prove to you that she is not your wife other than signing D paper at this point? I say some harsh things, not to belittle you, but to help you maintain sanity in this. You say you wish you were a "better" man, which implies that you feel guilty about thinking leaving your W and OC, and I say you shouldn't. To me, "better" man should be able to make "better" decisions about life in general, not someone subjugating himself to a ridiculous abuse like this. If a woman finds herself living with an abusive husband, should she call herself a "better" woman by sticking it out and allowing herself being abused? She should bail out, and it's not because she is not a "better" woman. 

See the lawyer and discuss an exit plan prompto. Don't dwell on feelings and stuff. Just go thru it like a business. This is my honest advice.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Get out.

Any woman that would have affairs get pregnant and then have you raise another man's children is beyond forgiveness. On top of that she infected you with the diseases she caught from the sleaze balls she was cheating with,

I doubt she wants R, she really just doesn't want to loose the cuckokd who has been supporting her and giving her the lifestyle where she can carry on her secret life.

Take the 15 year old and both of you get away from her abuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

To say that your wife is a broken woman is stating the obvious but necessary so that you can accept the truth that the only person who can address and resolve your wife's issues is her.

I disagree that she is unworthy of being forgiven but she is unworthy of being a wife. I forgave my wife but still chose to divorce her for my own well being. Ask yourself honestly, 'Am I endangering my well being by chosing to remain married to her?'

No matter what decision you take, it will be painful for all parties involved - that is unavoidable.


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm normally one of those people who says the biological origin of a child shouldn't matter. In this situation, it unavoidably does matter. These aren't adopted children or test tube babies or anything like that, they are the living embodiment of the greatest betrayal of your life. They may be wonderful children in and of themselves, but can you ever look at them as your own again? Can you ever look at them again without feeling the pain your wife has inflicted on you? How can you ever truly be a good father to these children now?
I think men have a responsibility to all children to protect them from harm; whatever you do, this responsibility obligates you to account for the best interests of these children. You may not be their biological father, and your wife may have destroyed your ability to be any kind of a father to them at all, but you can still do right by them. You can leave their lives responsibly. I don't think any reasonable person would judge you negatively for it.


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## RichardTornApart (Aug 20, 2011)

sadcalifornian, Shaggy, morituri, & ren,

I want to thank you all. You have all made some excellent points and I really appreciate them.

It seems I may have hijacked my own thread, so I am going to start a separate thread and I will respond to your thoughts there.

For this thread, I would still like to know if anyone has any recommendations. Even if I end up walking away from this marriage, someone else may search and find this thread later who is looking for resources as well. So any recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks Again,
Richard


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