# Husband making new friendships with single women, ok?



## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

Just wanted to get people's advice on friendships while married. How would you feel if your partner added new single people to facebook because they are friends of friends and have met in person? Some innocent flirting has gone on but your partner offers to help the person out with for example....moving or relationship advice. This women has even offered to have my husband over for "play dates" with our kids. I've never met her and she also visits my husband at work. He insists they are just friends and nothing shady is going on but I think it's inappropriate for a married man to have friendships with single women. I think married people should be friends with couples or at least offer that I meet her in person and become friends with her as well. I need advice on how to explain this to my husband without it seeming controlling. I've tried to talk to him about it and his reasoning is that he's a nice guy and likes to help people.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

There is no way in hell my husband would be doing that. If he did, he'd be out on his ass.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I would like for my husband to introduce me to them ASAP. Have a party, create an outing and round up friends. Whatever. And then I would observe whether these women are interested in being friends with us, with me being the contact point or if they insist upon carrying a separate friendship with my husband.

If it's the latter, then there is no possibility for a friendship.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Mamabean said:


> I think it's inappropriate for a married man to have friendships with single women.


Just out of curiosity, do you have single male friends? The wording struck me as odd.

Anyway, assuming you don't, I'd say just be honest - tell him that your marriage is important enough for you to want to protect it, and you'd like to have a boundary where neither of you have opposite sex friendships. Or whatever boundary you think is appropriate.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Try flipping the roles around here

Ask your husband how HE'D feel if it was you friending single males and getting invites for play dates.

Suddendly play dates won't look so tame to him!


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm with Hope, no way. Visiting him at work...I would be visiting her to explain she needs to find another KISA and hands off mine.

I would also be having a discussion with him about boundaries, and protecting the marriage. Hanging out with single people leads to becoming one.


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## BuddyL33 (Jul 16, 2009)

As a basic rule it isn't a good idea for a married person to create new friendships with singles of the opposite sex. It's just inviting trouble, even if that's not the intent. There isn't a chance in hell I would stand for it with my wife.


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

I have single guy friends on my facebook but don't have conversations in private message with them or hang out with them in person.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Mamabean said:


> I have single guy friends on my facebook but don't have conversations in private message with them or hang out with them in person.


I suggest that you and your H sit down and discuss what is appropriate as far as opposite sex friendships go, and that you should be prepared to give up these single Facebook friends if he asks you to as part of this compromise.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

This book is a great one for issues like this

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm going to try and talk to him tonight and will let you all know what happens tomorrow.


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## Lazarus (Jan 17, 2011)

No way is it right. Beware. Starts off as just friends and then they become the couple and you become the friend!


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Mamabean said:


> I'm going to try and talk to him tonight and will let you all know what happens tomorrow.


 We all know what is probably going to happen when you talk to your husband. First he will tell you that they are "just friends". Then he will tell you that you are jealous and controlling. Then he will tell you that you have no right to decide who he can be friends with.

How do I know this will probably happen before it happens? Because this is what all future cheaters say as they develop inappropriate relationships with members of the opposite sex. What makes this inappropriate, is that you are being kept out of it. Many married people do not have opposite sex at all. Those that do, require that the opposite sex friend be a friend of the marriage and a friend of the spouse. They also require that the spouse always feels welcome to come when they are together. Your husband's relationship with this other women does not meet any of these healthy criteria. 

If you caught it early enough, he has not physically cheated on you yet. Emotionally he is already getting hooked. It is normal for it to feel good when a person of the opposite sex pays attention to you. We as humans are wired this way. This releases drugs in the brain that can be addictive. The newer the relationship, the stronger the drugs. This newness factor is often called getting some "strange" by players such as Charlie Sheen. Charlie Sheen ex-wife Denise Richards was considered by many to be one of the most beautiful woman on the planet, yet she could not compete with far less attractive "strange". Same with Tiger Woods ex-wife. This is why letting this emotional connection develop is unhealthy for the marriage.

The longer that you wait to put your foot down the worse are your odds to save your marriage. Here is the rub. The earlier that you stop it, the less that they will feel that they have done anything wrong, because they will not acknowledge an emotional affair as cheating. But if you wait for them to let it to progress to a point that they feel that they have done something wrong, it is often too late by then. So take the anger from them them now rather than wait until it is too late. Draw the line in the sand now while you still matter to your husband. Affairs often lose their attraction when real life invades on them.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

My wife has said as long as she meets the person, then it is not a big deal. My wife also has some friends of the opposite sex that I am either not friends with or know just a little.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Mamabean said:


> Just wanted to get people's advice on friendships while married. How would you feel if your partner added new single people to facebook because they are friends of friends and have met in person? Some innocent flirting has gone on but your partner offers to help the person out with for example....moving or relationship advice. This women has even offered to have my husband over for "play dates" with our kids. I've never met her and she also visits my husband at work. He insists they are just friends and nothing shady is going on but I think it's inappropriate for a married man to have friendships with single women. I think married people should be friends with couples or at least offer that I meet her in person and become friends with her as well. I need advice on how to explain this to my husband without it seeming controlling. I've tried to talk to him about it and his reasoning is that he's a nice guy and likes to help people.


Ummmm ... no. Just no.

Don't worry about being called anything. Not jealous or insecure or controlling. Just do what you have to do to protect the marriage.

Just tell him that you find this unaccpetable and if he wants to be nice and help he can start and be nice to your marriage and to you. End of story. He blocks them in facebook and they are history.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Mamabean said:


> I have single guy friends on my facebook but don't have conversations in private message with them or hang out with them in person.


No because to do say one on one is called dating. So good for you.

You guys may want to do His Needs Her Needs together and define and agree upon some tighter opposite sex friend boundaries.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I am fairly liberal with my attitude to opposite sex friends but if some chick was going to his work place to visit him I would get that stopped asap. I don't even go to his work place to visit.

Sounds like she either has no concept of what boundaries mean or she knows exactly what she is doing and she is looking for more than a friendship.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

I cannot see what the problem is with people in a steady relationship having single friends of the opposite gender. In fact the gender and relationship status of our friends should have no bearing on how we treat them. I have been married for nearly 20 years and have had many platonic friendships with single women and my wife has had single male friends. Some of these have been with mutual friends or neighbors; some have been co workers or members of the same church or parents of our own children’s friends. These friendships are openly discussed and we all gain from them. Over the years I have had to remind a few friends that it’s “just friends” but if done politely and subtlety this does not cause a problem.

Both my wife and myself do go out of our way to help our friends in our own way, my wife will often look after friends children for the evening to allow them to have a grown up evening out. We both try to help / advice new parents especially with their first child. We often have single friends around even when one of us is not there. For my part I am often asked to help with DIY around the house or to fix a car. During the resent snows in the UK our 4 by 4 (SUV) did several extra shopping trips for those who could not get out safely in their standard cars.

Just because of are in a relationship (marriage / civil union/ etc) with someone does not mean that you own them, they can and should be able to form friendships with whomever they please. You should be able to trust your partner to stick to whatever vows or promises they have made. If they can’t keep their word OR you can’t trust then you face real problems.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Wiltshireman said:


> I cannot see what the problem is with people in a steady relationship having single friends of the opposite gender.


There is no problem if both spouses have good boundaries and/or are connected very deeply and intimately. (If that's you, that's great for you!)

The problem arises when one spouse does not. (That's the OP's hubby, not so good for her, and boundaries are appropriate.)


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

Well I talked to him last night and he insists that it's not a big deal and he's just acquaintances with her because she is a friend of a friend. I told him I think it's inappropriate for him to be offering to help her move and it's inappropriate for her to ask him over for playdates with our kids. The issue is still not really resolved because he says he doesn't understand why it's inappropriate. I tried my best to explain it to him but he says he's confused why it's inappropriate to offer to help a friend. I really don't know where to go with this now, the same issue just keeps coming up. I asked him to flip the tables and he said he wouldn't care because he trusts me. I told him I trust him too but why bring in possible threats to our marriage. We need to protect our marriage. I'm going to try and bring it up again tonight to try and resolve it. Any tips on how else to explain it to him??


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Your H's behaviour is inappropriate for a married man. If my SO did this I'd tell him to shape up or ship out.

You might want to read Dr Shirley Glass' book, "Not Just Friends," or visit her website:- http://www.shirleyglass.com/bookmain.htm


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Mamabean,

A couple of questions that may help members to give appropriate advice.

Has your husband given you cause not to trust him / his judgement?
Why do you think it inappropriate for a married man to have single femail friends?
Do you have or would you concider having any single male friends.


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

Let me just be clear that he has a lot of opposite sex friends that are single and has helped them out in the past. I've never had a problem with any of them but have read some of the posts that she makes to my husband and it gave me a bad feeling that she wanted something more. It bothers me because she's never offered to meet me or include me in any of these plans. Neither does he and I expressed this to him and I believe he understands that point. It would be different if she said "once I move into my new place you'll have to bring your wife and kids over for a playdate and hang out" That's what made me mad. I'm a mom of a 2 month old baby and a 3 year old. I stay home while he works 60+ hours a week and it makes me mad when he's offering help to another women to move when he hardly has time to spend with his family. He told me he had no intention of going over for playdates without me but I'm wondering why she thought it was appropriate to even ask. We've had some issues earlier this new year about him not being sure what he wants. He left me hanging for a week wondering if my marriage was ending and me thinking I'd be a single mom. We've worked it out and things are getting better after a long talk about what we needed from this relationship. I think while we are working on our issues it would be nice for him to not worry about other people's problems and helping them out...he needs to help us!


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> Your H's behaviour is inappropriate for a married man. If my SO did this I'd tell him to shape up or ship out.


Cosmos,
What has he done that is inappropriate. 
There is no mention by the OP of infidelity or of him neglecting her. ?


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm not worried that he would cheat on me, he's a very flirty guy and it's one of the reasons that attracted me to him..it kinda turns me on to see him flirt with other women. This women is a threat though and just sets off red flags to me. My husbands best friend of 16 years is also a women and I have been best friends with her since I started dating my husband. I'm not a jealous women and that's why I can't let go of this bad feeling I have about her. Like I said, it would be different if she ever mentioned me or he did, but its all behind my back.


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

Wiltshireman said:


> Cosmos,
> What has he done that is inappropriate.
> There is no mention by the OP of infidelity or of him neglecting her. ?


Thank you for giving me another perspective as well.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Mamabean,

Thank you for the clarification.
Given the circumstances:
You at home with two under 5's one of which is a new baby (congratulations BTW) 
Your husband spending long hours at work)
Your recent loss of confidance in your relationship.
I would describe your husbamds actions as Ill advised / not thought through. It seems to me (from what you have said) that you have a "bad feeling" about this particular femail friend and maybe fell a little threatened by the relationship she is trying to build with your husband.

That is understandable afterall his is "your Husband" and his first duty is to you and your young family.

Why not just try and defuse the whole situation by inviting this women over to your home when you will all be there. Let her see what a strong family you and your husband have and how happy you can be together. This will allow you the chance to see if your feelings about her are missed placed or not and If not you could just have a quiet "hands off he's mine" chat with her.

I hope all goes well for you.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

READ THIS BOOK. Seriously. And have him read it too.

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"

And anyone else who doesn't see a problem with this type of thing should read it too.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Wiltshireman said:


> Why not just try and defuse the whole situation by inviting this women over to your home when you will all be there. Let her see what a strong family you and your husband have and how happy you can be together. This will allow you the chance to see if your feelings about her are missed placed or not and If not you could just have a quiet "hands off he's mine" chat with her.
> 
> I hope all goes well for you.


This sounds good in theory, but unless her husband develops better boundaries the same thing is going to happen again. Not to mention that to some women a 'hands off' chat is just like throwing down the gauntlet.

The ONLY thing to do here is for her to NOT be a part of either of their lives. Period.


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> This sounds good in theory, but unless her husband develops better boundaries the same thing is going to happen again. Not to mention that to some women a 'hands off' chat is just like throwing down the gauntlet.
> 
> The ONLY thing to do here is for her to NOT be a part of either of their lives. Period.


 confused by that last part,,not be a part of whose lives?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Wiltshireman said:


> Cosmos,
> What has he done that is inappropriate.
> There is no mention by the OP of infidelity or of him neglecting her. ?


The other woman is positioning herself in the life of the OP's husband to be alone with him at times when the wife is not around. When the other woman starts visiting at work, this is beyond innocent flirting, and the bottom line is that she is not behaving in a manner consistent with being a friend to the marriage.

The husband is allowing this behavior to the point where the OP feels "controlling" to fear for her marriage.

Anyone that has been involved with or seen infidelity will tell you that there are more than enough red flags here to warrant decisive action by the OP.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Wiltshireman said:


> I cannot see what the problem is with people in a steady relationship having single friends of the opposite gender. In fact the gender and relationship status of our friends should have no bearing on how we treat them. I have been married for nearly 20 years and have had many platonic friendships with single women and my wife has had single male friends. Some of these have been with mutual friends or neighbors; some have been co workers or members of the same church or parents of our own children’s friends. These friendships are openly discussed and we all gain from them. Over the years I have had to remind a few friends that it’s “just friends” but if done politely and subtlety this does not cause a problem.


 First you say that the gender and relationship status should have "no bearing", and then you say that you have had to remind a few of your opposite sex friends that they are "just friends", thus showing why it does have bearing. Having single opposite sex friends that have show to you that they would like to be more than just friends with you, is playing with fire. 

Right now your marraige appears strong, but what if there is a down patch in your marraige? During this down patch, what if the extra attention of this opposite sex friend that wants to be more than just friends has a very human impact on you and makes it such that you develop inappropriate emotional feelings for her? People in emotional affairs (EA) almost never feel at first that what they are doing is wrong. The negative impact of an EA is that it weakens even more your bond with your spouse just when it was already weak. Studies show that EAs either escalate or end, with 49% escalating into physical affairs (PA). Yes many people will play with fire and get away unburned, but that does not mean that playing with fire is a good idea.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Mamabean said:


> Well I talked to him last night and he insists that it's not a big deal and he's just acquaintances with her because she is a friend of a friend. I told him I think it's inappropriate for him to be offering to help her move and it's inappropriate for her to ask him over for playdates with our kids. The issue is still not really resolved because he says he doesn't understand why it's inappropriate. I tried my best to explain it to him but he says he's confused why it's inappropriate to offer to help a friend. I really don't know where to go with this now, the same issue just keeps coming up. I asked him to flip the tables and he said he wouldn't care because he trusts me. I told him I trust him too but why bring in possible threats to our marriage. We need to protect our marriage. I'm going to try and bring it up again tonight to try and resolve it. Any tips on how else to explain it to him??


All that matters is that YOU need to understand it is inappropriate. He does not need to see it. He needs to respect you on this.

Tell him it IS unacceptable and that perhaps after he goes NC in time he will realize it was inapproriate. That was my case.

He needs to trust you is right. He needs to trust you that this is a deal breaker. If his marriage is #1 to him then he will comply becuase he loves you. That is what I did.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Mamabean, you don't just have a few red flags here, you have a full-on marching band. I'm in the final stages of a divorce from a husband who had NO boundaries when it came to opposite sex friendships. He was able to twist my desire to not be controlling, old-fashioned, possessive, etc., into gaslighting and putting blame on me for what I knew to be inappropriate behavior. He had multiple EAs during our marriage. He still, to this day, does not acknowledge them as such. But they totally fit the definition. 

Do invite the friend over, and closely observe their interactions with each other. Watch their body language, and most importantly, watch how they treat you. You should be his partner in entertaining her and she should be the guest. Not the two of them chatting and sharing inside jokes while you act like the maid, bringing them food and keeping the kids happy. Look for things like that. 

Try to engage her in doing things just the two of you -- why is HE the one having playdates with her kids? That seems totally odd. Why not the two moms getting together with the kids? I'd offer and see if she takes you up on it (don't tell your H first, just put it out there -- get an unrehearsed reaction). Offer to do things with her as 2 girls. If she declines or seems uncomfortable, that's another huge red flag that she's out for your husband and is no friend of your marriage.

The basic thing he should remember is this: in your vows, you most likely said some form of 'forsaking all others.' That means he puts your feelings first above a friend's. He is feeling flattered by her attention, her need of his help. This is when the chemicals start flowing for him, and it starts heading to dangerous territory. She's a single mom -- how recently? Is she trying to help get over a break-up by seeking attention from another man? If so, that's totally understandable, but she needs to get it from someone who's not already taken.

The fact that you've had some shaky times in your marriage lately is also a huge red flag. I wonder what came first -- the shaky times leading him to feel like he doesn't need to take you as seriously? Or, getting involved with friends that don't honor your marriage, and that leading to the shaky times? 

Trust your gut. Many times here, and in my own situation, I've seen spouses say they just didn't feel right about a 'friendship,' but their concerns were shot down by the other spouse. Lying is part of this whole thing, once it gets started. Don't just rely on how much you've been able to trust him in the past, and start doing your own verification.

Good luck!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Wiltshireman said:


> Mamabean,
> 
> A couple of questions that may help members to give appropriate advice.
> 
> ...


One has to understand what EAs are all about and have knowledge on how people bond with each other.

Men and women are not the same. Whether a friend is a man or woman matters. You can say it does not but men and woman are different beyond just the genitals. 

You can have a liberal attitude towards oppostie sex friends but you also need to be aware of EAs, and the damage they cause to marriages to be able to see this clearly.

EAs are most often not recognized as such. They are seen as close freindships. They suck the life out of the primary relationship and yet are not seen as the root cause. YMMV.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Mamabean said:


> confused by that last part,,not be a part of whose lives?


The OW should not be a part of your life or your husbands life.

Have you read the book yet?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> One has to understand what EAs are all about and have knowedlge on how people bond with each other.
> 
> Men and women are not the same. Whether a friend is a man or woman matters. You can say it does not but men and woman are different beyond just the genitals.
> 
> ...


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

This is spot on. LISTEN to it.

Mamabean, you posted asking for opinions, but when we said it sounds like your husband is doing something inappropriate you started looking for reasons why it ISN'T inappropriate.

Are you going to admit there's a problem here or not?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

This is the problem with relationships today. to be sexually faithful is clear. To be emotionally faithful is not so clearcut. And there are some people who like to exploit that cloudiness. 

***You should be his partner in entertaining her and she should be the guest. Not the two of them chatting and sharing inside jokes while you act like the maid, bringing them food and keeping the kids happy. Look for things like that.****

boy this is poignant. I remember on the fateful weekend that my exH and exMIL had invited a couple over for the weekend. I was the last to know and my ExMIL had big plans like going to an expensive restaurant and treating the 6 of us (my exSIL was there, too).

I told my exH that I felt closed out of conversations. His solution? You should have picked up a try and offer the guests another drink. 

My ExH was rather extrverted, but still, the remark crystallises everything.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> Originally Posted by Wiltshireman View Post
> Cosmos,
> What has he done that is inappropriate.
> There is no mention by the OP of infidelity or of him neglecting her. ?



The OP's H's behaviour has the potential to lead to an EA. The friendship excludes his W and his female friend already sees fit to visit him at work...

Having boundaries when it comes to opposite friends is important to the stability of any healthy relationship.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Mamabean said:


> I'm not worried that he would cheat on me, he's a very flirty guy and it's one of the reasons that attracted me to him..it kinda turns me on to see him flirt with other women. This women is a threat though and just sets off red flags to me. My husbands best friend of 16 years is also a women and I have been best friends with her since I started dating my husband. I'm not a jealous women and that's why I can't let go of this bad feeling I have about her. Like I said, it would be different if she ever mentioned me or he did, but its all behind my back.


Cheating is not the issue with these things. Yes it can happen.

Inappropriate Behvior --> Unfaithfulness --> Cheating

Marriages are destoyed well before PIV. Having proper boundaries in the inappropriate behavior area will go a long way to keeping out of the unfaithful area.

Her visiting him at work is inappropriate. If he kept that information from you it would be unfaithful.

He needs to help his marriage. Why is it on him to "help" single women?

So this is a single woman with young children?

If so she may be looking for a daddy for them. RED FLAG.

If she has not children ... WTH?

So he is helping with move her? Why? Is she having relationship problem?

This sounds like a woman in need of a man to bond with. This is more than friends.

At a glance this is not a good situation. However when one looks closer at what has been stated it looks quite serious to me.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> This sounds good in theory, but unless her husband develops better boundaries the same thing is going to happen again. Not to mention that to some women a 'hands off' chat is just like throwing down the gauntlet.
> 
> The ONLY thing to do here is for her to NOT be a part of either of their lives. Period.


Time is limited for a couple. The guy works 60+ hours a week and has young children. His energies should be family related. He should be spending his energies developing relationships with single folks period at this time in his life. Not to this extent.

I mean how does he know this women at all? Is he a memeber of the clergy? Is he a teacher? Is he somehow a mentor? If she visits him at work I guess we can assume she does not work with him. So I cannot see why a married man with young children is invetsing in a single woman.

Men do not invest time in women if they do not have some interest in them. I am saying he is having some needs met and he is trying to meet this woman;s needs. There is not doubt he should be meeting his families needs. 

How much one on one time is he spending with his wife. How much father time does he have with his children. 

These relationships are already impacting his marriage. He is messing up big time.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Mama, he clearly doesn't respect your wishes. On this particular issue if I was in this situation and my W told me it was making her uncomfortable I would respect that and remove this friend from causing conflict with my marriage.

My wife is priority #1. I would not let an opposite sex friend drive any type of wedge in my marriage.

Your request does not seem unreasonable or controlling since you are not demanding he remove 'ALL' his friends, just her.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> This is the problem with relationships today. to be sexually faithful is clear. To be emotionally faithful is not so clearcut. And there are some people who like to exploit that cloudiness.


Awesome. :iagree::iagree::iagree:

You nailed it.


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

I don't want it to seem like I'm making excuses for his behavior but he's given me no reason to think he'd cheat on me. He's never gone to her house to have these playdates she asked about and didn't even respond to it when she said it. I know there is a problem and that's why I'm asking for advice on how to approach him with it. He said he wouldn't go over to her house without me, he realizes that's wrong. He said he wouldn't hang out with her alone. He has a really hard time opening up and that's one of our issues we are working on. He did say that he didn't realize it was inappropriate behaviour, we talked for a few minutes but have a newborn that starts crying every time we try to talk seriously. The issue is still not settled in my mind so needs to be addressed again. I will try again tonight to bring it up and try to make my point clear.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Mamabean said:


> I don't want it to seem like I'm making excuses for his behavior but he's given me no reason to think he'd cheat on me. He's never gone to her house to have these playdates she asked about and didn't even respond to it when she said it. I know there is a problem and that's why I'm asking for advice on how to approach him with it. He said he wouldn't go over to her house without me, he realizes that's wrong. He said he wouldn't hang out with her alone. He has a really hard time opening up and that's one of our issues we are working on. He did say that he didn't realize it was inappropriate behaviour, we talked for a few minutes but have a newborn that starts crying every time we try to talk seriously. The issue is still not settled in my mind so needs to be addressed again. I will try again tonight to bring it up and try to make my point clear.


You do not wait until there is cheating. That is too late. He is investing energies in another woman. This is energy is not going to his family. Right now not listening to you is getting into the unfaithful range.

This stuff has momentum. It is chemical. Once people bond they have to go through withdrawal. 
That requires complete NC for about two months. Only then will they realize what they have been doing is inappropriate. Why does this single woman matter more than you? 

This is not a casual friendship. I see it as unfaithful right now but arguably inappropriate. If you do not deal with this stuff early on you have already lost.

You husband has a young family. What is his problem?

When he helps her move, there is her opportunity for her to be alone with him. Later she will be calling him ar home and he will need to run over to her place to finish up something. And so on.

Who is this woman? You have not said. Where does he know her from and why is he the one to help her out? Why is he filling this role in her life? Why is he meeting her needs? He is being her protector.

Is she a single mom? Is she really single or is she going through a divorce? How do you know?

If he was my friend I would smack him in his head ans ask what he is thinking. Married men with young families do not do this.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Mamabean said:


> I don't want it to seem like I'm making excuses for his behavior but he's given me no reason to think he'd cheat on me. He's never gone to her house to have these playdates she asked about and didn't even respond to it when she said it. I know there is a problem and that's why I'm asking for advice on how to approach him with it. He said he wouldn't go over to her house without me, he realizes that's wrong. He said he wouldn't hang out with her alone. He has a really hard time opening up and that's one of our issues we are working on. He did say that he didn't realize it was inappropriate behaviour, we talked for a few minutes but have a newborn that starts crying every time we try to talk seriously. The issue is still not settled in my mind so needs to be addressed again. I will try again tonight to bring it up and try to make my point clear.


GET THIS BOOK. There is a REASON I keep saying this.

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Wow, Entropy, I wish I'd had someone like you to hit STBXH up the side of his head.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Mamabean said:


> I don't want it to seem like I'm making excuses for his behavior but he's given me no reason to think he'd cheat on me. He's never gone to her house to have these playdates she asked about and didn't even respond to it when she said it. I know there is a problem and that's why I'm asking for advice on how to approach him with it. He said he wouldn't go over to her house without me, he realizes that's wrong. He said he wouldn't hang out with her alone. He has a really hard time opening up and that's one of our issues we are working on. He did say that he didn't realize it was inappropriate behaviour, we talked for a few minutes but have a newborn that starts crying every time we try to talk seriously. The issue is still not settled in my mind so needs to be addressed again. I will try again tonight to bring it up and try to make my point clear.


It is good that he seems somewhat receptive to you about this topic.

Consider that if you and he are having a hard time opening up to each other, and for whatever reason he is not having that problem with the other woman, she will be attractive to him in that way. He will continue to open up to her, struggle to open up to you, etc., and eventually he could just turn to her when he wants to emotionally connect to someone. The more he connects with her, the harder it will be to connect with you, etc.

Maybe approaching him from that angle might make him understand where you are coming from.


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

This is the conversation they had about helping her move:

HIM:
hey you how are things ?

7:46pm
Her:
Super stressed...hold on I'm gonna turn my computer on

7:46pm

Him
oh ok

7:53pm
HER:
Hey...
So you know anybody with a truck that can pull a trailer that can help me move on Thursday or Friday?

9:11pm
HER:
I think I got it sorted out...fingers crossed!

9:48pm
HIM:
ah no i dont know anyone with a trailer hitch.

9:53pm
HER:
Its ok...I think I've got it sorted out...How are you doing?

9:55pm
HIM:
where ya moving too??
im doing ok... working lots... really tired...

9:55pm
HER:
I got a place on Kathleen near Notre Dame

9:56pm
HIM:
oh cool cool....
nice place ? lots of room for the boys?

9:58pm
HER:
It's ok...its tiny but it'll be our own place so that's what matters.
How's work going? I'll have to go in for an oil change soon 

9:59pm
HIM:
ya thats right, it is a rough over your head..
lol ROOF

9:59pm
HER:
lol

10:01pm
HIM:
do roof da roof da roof is on fire!

10:02pm
HER:
We don't need no water let the mother f..... burn

10:02pm
HIM:
burn mo-fo burn!!

10:02pm
HER:
Hahaha
What are you up to this weekend?

10:03pm
HIM:
do you have enough ppl to help you move?

10:05pm
HER:
My sister and I are gonna do it...we should be alright...Mike was supposed to help but he is going for surgery on Monday so he'll be out of commission

10:05pm
HIM:
let me know, if i can help out i will 

10:06pm
HER:
I'm watching Diners, Drive ins and Dives and I am sooo hungry now...lol

10:06pm
HIM:
i have to work, more then likely but... im sure i can help out a friend 
k im gonna head for bed.. 530 am comes quick...

10:07pm
HER:
Okie Dokie It'll be on Thursday...you could meet us when we get into town and help bring it in...lol
Awww...you're a great friend We'll have to have baby playdates once I'm settled...have a good night...maybe I'll stop in for a hello

10:09pm
HIM:
k talk to you after...


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## bailingout (Jan 25, 2013)

Quoting whoever said: All that matters is that YOU need to understand it is inappropriate. He does not need to see it. He needs to respect you on this.



What matters in a healthy relationship is that it matters to YOU, therefore he should respect you for that.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Mamabean said:


> This is the conversation they had about helping her move:


Ok, Hubby having trouble opening up to you... check.
Hubby having no trouble opening up and texting single woman... check.

Hubby putting up resistance to your objections to his female friend... check.
Hubby putting up no resistance to helping female friend move and accepting an invite to visit him at work and on playdates... check.

There is a problem here.


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


> You do not wait until there is cheating. That is too late. He is investing energies in another woman. This is energy is not going to his family. Right now not listening to you is getting into the unfaithful range.
> 
> This stuff has momentum. It is chemical. Once people bond they have to go through withdrawal.
> That requires complete NC for about two months. Only then will they realize what they have been doing is inappropriate. Why does this single woman matter more than you?
> ...


She is a women he met at his work and she is also a friend of a guy he works with who is gay. The guy from work lives with his boyfriend and this women has been staying with the work friend until she could find a place to live. He has visited this work friend's house but insists she was not there when he visited. My husband works at an Oil Change Centre so she is also a customer and goes in for her car care.


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## Omegaa (Nov 17, 2012)

Mine did something similar.

If he does this again, he will be a history.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Mamabean said:


> She is a women he met at his work and she is also a friend of a guy he works with who is gay. The guy from work lives with his boyfriend and this women has been staying with the work friend until she could find a place to live. He has visited this work friend's house but insists she was not there when he visited. My husband works at an Oil Change Centre so she is also a customer and goes in for her car care.


I see. Ok so she is a friend of a coworker. She comes by work to see them and to get her oil needs met.

I see no reason why your hubby needs to interject himself in this. If he were single I would understand.
Married guy working 60+ hours with a young family. Makes no sense to me. 

He was the one fishing to to help her out.

Sounds like he is having trouble getting into this whole marriage thing. He sounds very young and has not transitioned into married life fully as yet. These are dangerous times. He can get his act together or this will diverge into potential disaster. I am just saying that IMO you are at the crossroads. You guys need to set some better marital boundaries here. Not just interaction with OS friends, but friends in genral. Read His Needs Her Needs. Part of that is setting boundaries but you guys also need the meeting each other's needs stuff. There is only so much time in our lives. How we spend it matters.

She is a damsel in distress. RED FLAG. This is NOT your husbands problem to solve. There are other men out there. These other friends can helo her move. He needs to spend that time with you. 

Helping her move is an escalation of the relationship. And invitation for more help. Play dates? I would not pursue this. If this was a couple it might be different. But it is not. You do not need him filling the void of a missing husband and father. He has a wife. He has his own children.


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## Omegaa (Nov 17, 2012)

Yes. Absolutely.

In his "EA" Fog, he is a single, available man (away from his REALITY with his wife and the family). Tell this silly woman (with no concept of boundary) to stay away from you husband. You shouldn't put up with this sort of utter nonsense.


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## Haram (Jan 28, 2013)

I'd say...single girls on his FB..a step away from cyber cheating or real cheating. He should be spending his time with you not on his comp befriending strangers on FB. Secondly, I sadly begun to believe men and women can't just stay friends...one side, if not both, will want sex Don't let him.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Mamabean said:


> Just wanted to get people's advice on friendships while married. How would you feel if your partner added new single people to facebook because they are friends of friends and have met in person? Some innocent flirting has gone on but your partner offers to help the person out with for example....moving or relationship advice. This women has even offered to have my husband over for "play dates" with our kids. I've never met her and she also visits my husband at work. He insists they are just friends and nothing shady is going on but I think it's inappropriate for a married man to have friendships with single women. I think married people should be friends with couples or at least offer that I meet her in person and become friends with her as well. I need advice on how to explain this to my husband without it seeming controlling. I've tried to talk to him about it and his reasoning is that he's a nice guy and likes to help people.


 IF they are "just friends" why haven't you met her??? There is something more to this then "just friends" In my opinion. I hope I am wrong.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> All that matters is that YOU need to understand it is inappropriate. He does not need to see it. He needs to respect you on this.
> 
> Tell him it IS unacceptable and that perhaps after he goes NC in time he will realize it was inapproriate. That was my case.
> 
> He needs to trust you is right. He needs to trust you that this is a deal breaker. If his marriage is #1 to him then he will comply becuase he loves you. That is what I did.


Both opinions should matter. Just because one person thinks something doesn't mean it has to be set in stone. A couple should talk it and hear both sides, just just blindly follow one side. That could lead to a whole other mess of problems.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Haram said:


> I'd say...single girls on his FB..a step away from cyber cheating or real cheating. He should be spending his time with you not on his comp befriending strangers on FB. Secondly, I sadly begun to believe men and women can't just stay friends...one side, if not both, will want sex Don't let him.


Just because they want sex doesn't mean the sex will happen.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

that conversation posted above seems totally harmless to me. Seems like he is just being a good friend that is all.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

gbrad said:


> Both opinions should matter. Just because one person thinks something doesn't mean it has to be set in stone. A couple should talk it and hear both sides, just just blindly follow one side. That could lead to a whole other mess of problems.


A spouse does not make a unilateral decision to invite another person into their life without agreement from their spouse. That only happens in open marriages. Monogamous couples can follow the Policy Of Joint Agreement if they need a template to start.

Which MEANS both spouses have the veto power to stop such things. So indeed they both must agree to add these type of friends. 

Sooooo. If one spouse has on their own invited someone into their world against the wishes of their spouse they should respect their spouse and NOT have that friend out of respect for their spouse if their spouse has an issue with it.

I know this is an advanced marriage concept for many.

You can study up on POJA on your own.

This works for those really into the whole marriage thing.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> A spouse does not make a unilateral decision to invite another person into their life without aggreement from their spouse. That only happens in open marriages. Monogamous couples can follow the Policy Of Joint Afgreement.
> 
> Which MEANS both spouses have the veto power to stop such things. So indeed they both must agree to add these type of friends.
> 
> ...


When you mention "open marriage" are you talking sexually open, because that is what I think of? I am not saying that you avoid the opinion of the spouse, all I am saying is that it should be discussed, not just this is my opinion and I don't even have to explain myself. 2 people should discuss things when there is an issue, hear things out. If after doing so one spouse still has that strong feeling, then yes I get it, they should respect the spouses wishes, but they need to discuss it first.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

gbrad said:


> When you mention "open marriage" are you talking sexually open, because that is what I think of? I am not saying that you avoid the opinion of the spouse, all I am saying is that it should be discussed, not just this is my opinion and I don't even have to explain myself. 2 people should discuss things when there is an issue, hear things out. If after doing so one spouse still has that strong feeling, then yes I get it, they should respect the spouses wishes, but they need to discuss it first.


No. I will repeat. The boundary in a good marriage is NOT the prevention of PIV cheating.

It has to do with the emotional bonding. The expediture of energies outside the marriage to take back seat to the energies spent on the marriage.

I mean just between you and I, her husband from what she describes is an immature guy, totally clueless about taking care of his marriage and his children. He is NOT an example of something good to follow. He is totally messing up.

He is however at the crossroads. He can screw the pooch ... not talking about the girl ... and go down the path he is on or he can get a clue, be a mature man, who takes care of his family first. He may have never had a good example to follow. No matter. This is an example of what NOT to do. He is likely innocent here. Meaning he may not be looking to be unfaithful. This is the way it mostly is with folks. Just clueless.

Did he discuss this new friend with his wife? Did she agree for him to spend time with her. Ummm. No she did not. So he did this unilaterally. He did not dicuss this with her. See the difference here?
No he messed up. So she is trying to get him back into the marriage whcih is her right.


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## hekati (Jan 24, 2013)

Haram said:


> I'd say...single girls on his FB..a step away from cyber cheating or real cheating. He should be spending his time with you not on his comp befriending strangers on FB. Secondly, I sadly begun to believe men and women can't just stay friends...one side, if not both, will want sex Don't let him.


It is kinda shocking to me to discover here on the forum that some people eventually would want sex with any available person of opposite sex. I thought it takes a really very special person to create a sexual desire....


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> No. I will repeat. The boundary in a good marriage is NOT the prevention of PIV cheating.
> 
> It has to do with the emotional bonding. The expediture of energies outside the marriage to take back seat to the energies spent on the marriage.
> 
> ...


I am talking about anything, not just affairs here. If I say I want to do something and my wife says no. I want to ask why and be able to explain to her why I want to do it. Once we have talked it out together, if she still opposes vehemently, then I should respect it. But, you are trying to imply that it is wrong for a spouse to have a discussion with their spouse regarding why they believe something is good or bad? I just don't get that logic of why a discussion is wrong.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

hekati said:


> It is kinda shocking to me to discover here on the forum that some people eventually would want sex with any available person of opposite sex. I thought it takes a really very special person to create a sexual desire....


LOL.

UFB

When a man invests time in a woman ... he is interested unless he is a close relative. He may be comitted to someone and he may not intend to cheat and he may not ... but he is interested.

The average man is attracted by women sexually in a broad range above and below his sex rank.

Meaning if a good looking woman walked into a singles club where there were 100 unattached guys, 80% or more of these men would take her to bed that night ... no questions asked. I may be conservative here. But for argument sake do you really believe it would be less than 50%? I would venture to say that if she was really hot it might approach 100%.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

gbrad said:


> I am talking about anything, not just affairs here. If I say I want to do something and my wife says no. I want to ask why and be able to explain to her why I want to do it. Once we have talked it out together, if she still opposes vehemently, then I should respect it. But, you are trying to imply that it is wrong for a spouse to have a discussion with their spouse regarding why they believe something is good or bad? I just don't get that logic of why a discussion is wrong.


Gbrad, you talk about what you want.

I am talking about this thread. I am talking about a wife wanting her husband to be faithful to her. He needs to do that whether he sees the issue or not. Or he is not much of a husband. Works both ways.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

OP: If I were you, I'd keep the conversation(s) going with your husband about why it is inappropriate for him to continue being "friends" with this woman. He is definitely in the EA "fog" and it's probably going to take some work to get him out of it. I know, because I had an EA and was "just friends" with someone online (never met in person), but I put a lot of energy into maintaining that relationship while things in my marriage were not being attended to. 

Judging from the message you posted, your husband is exhibting many of the same behaviors that I had in chats with my AP. He is very likely deep in fantasyland, even if he has said that he wouldn't go on those playdates with her. She's fishing and he is feeding into it. That, coupled with the issues that you said that you had earlier this year, it's time to make sure that he understands that continuing to be friendly with her is threatening the marriage and he needs to make a committment to his family, if that is what he really wants.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> Gbrad, you talk about what you want.
> 
> I am talking about this thread. I am talking about a wife wanting her husband to be faithful to her. He needs to do that whether he sees the issue or not. Or he is not much of a husband. Works both ways.


I guess I read what you wrote incorrectly earlier. I thought you were saying that if a man has a friend that the wife doesn't want him to have, he has to just respect that regardless. Now you are saying it is about being faithful to her. Of course she has every right to want him to be faithful and he needs to do that.


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## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm sure you have been bombarded in how YOU should conduct your marriage but suffice to say it really is about boundaries. This is really about what you are comfortable with and what you are not comfortable with. WE can all argue all day long until the cows come home but in all honesty it really depends on the two of you. Regardless if your not comfortable in how he is engaging in speaking and dealing with these women then it's time to do something about it.


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## hekati (Jan 24, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


> LOL.
> 
> UFB
> 
> ...


Well… I am not a man I don’t know. I thought less than 50%. But I am afraid it would not be “investing” it would be “wasting”. For me it was extremely hard to find a guy that I would like to take to bed. It was so hard to find that freaking chemistry you so much sorted out like a low animal instincts that sets too low bar for a human. And it seems me that some guys have actually very high bar for what is hot too.
And usually my male friends like to have conversations with me. Although we both know that we are not interested in each other. But usually we had a good discussion on problems that we were interested mutually. 
It also was common where I lived, in ussr, that neighbors or colleagues at work helped to any female neighbor or colleague even if she is very far from being hot. Even if she old, fat and ugly. If she needed help with moving especially. Although it wasn’t common for a woman to be just a housewife as it is basically ok in US and women and men were basically equal but men there still believed that women are physically not as strong as men and if she in moving maybe she needs help with heavy furniture etc. My male friends from there sometimes surprised that here wife could be upset if her husband would stop at the freeway to help a girl to change a tire. And women here actually explained it like – he is investing his time in some girl that could just call AAA. And I understand it too. But my friends usually objected – no, it is just about helping a person who is not as physically strong to move a heavy tire. Sorta… 
I do believe that if it all upset a wife then both a husband and a wife have a problem and they should discuss and solve it. I also didn’t see anything in the conversation. There is a possibility he likes the girl. But if so then nothing could be done. The more the wife would demand attention the more it will actually drive husband away from her. I would say she should find common interests and somehow make husband be interested again. Well I see you here have totally different approach – you should guilt trick the husband and make him realize the dark nature for his dirty instincts and suppress those instincts and then they will live happily after.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

hekati said:


> Well… I am not a man I don’t know. I thought less than 50%. But I am afraid it would not be “investing” it would be “wasting”. For me it was extremely hard to find a guy that I would like to take to bed. It was so hard to find that freaking chemistry you so much sorted out like a low animal instincts that sets too low bar for a human. And it seems me that some guys have actually very high bar for what is hot too.
> And usually my male friends like to have conversations with me. Although we both know that we are not interested in each other. But usually we had a good discussion on problems that we were interested mutually.
> It also was common where I lived, in ussr, that neighbors or colleagues at work helped to any female neighbor or colleague even if she is very far from being hot. Even if she old, fat and ugly. If she needed help with moving especially. Although it wasn’t common for a woman to be just a housewife as it is basically ok in US and women and men were basically equal but men there still believed that women are physically not as strong as men and if she in moving maybe she needs help with heavy furniture etc. My male friends from there sometimes surprised that here wife could be upset if her husband would stop at the freeway to help a girl to change a tire. And women here actually explained it like – he is investing his time in some girl that could just call AAA. And I understand it too. But my friends usually objected – no, it is just about helping a person who is not as physically strong to move a heavy tire. Sorta…
> I do believe that if it all upset a wife then both a husband and a wife have a problem and they should discuss and solve it. I also didn’t see anything in the conversation. There is a possibility he likes the girl. But if so then nothing could be done. The more the wife would demand attention the more it will actually drive husband away from her. I would say she should find common interests and somehow make husband be interested again. Well I see you here have totally different approach – you should guilt trick the husband and make him realize the dark nature for his dirty instincts and suppress those instincts and then they will live happily after.


Allrighty then.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

hekati I don't read anything as people saying that men should not help women move heavy furniture or help them change a tyre. You may have missed the subtlety of this particular situation the OP is talking about.

I say this with all due respect to the wonderful men of the world but guys can be naive when it comes to predatory women. Most likely the OPs DH is just a good guy, friendly and does not see what the issue is.
The real problem is the woman involved, she is a predator, she knows he is married and she is deliberately doing things that will put a wedge between husband and wife.

OP do not underestimate this woman but don't turn your DH into the enemy while dealing with this. I would invite her over to your house as a pp has suggested. Watch her in action and let her know she is being watched. 

I have opp sex friends, have always had them. I do not have an issue with my partner having them but if there were ever a situation where a woman was visiting him at work or making arrangements with him that excluded me then I would not let it slide.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

gbrad said:


> I guess I read what you wrote incorrectly earlier. I thought you were saying that if a man has a friend that the wife doesn't want him to have, he has to just respect that regardless. Now you are saying it is about being faithful to her. Of course she has every right to want him to be faithful and he needs to do that.


Yes. I am saying exactly those things. You are an awesome straight man. Folks are going to believe I am gbrad and just setting Entropy up.



> I thought you were saying that if a man has a friend that the wife doesn't want him to have, he has to just respect that regardless.


Yes I am saying that.



> Now you are saying it is about being faithful to her.


Yes. I am indeed saying this. This second quote goes hand in glove with the second. By not doing the first he is not being faithful to his spouse. By definition.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

krismimo said:


> I'm sure you have been bombarded in how YOU should conduct your marriage but suffice to say it really is about boundaries. This is really about what you are comfortable with and what you are not comfortable with. WE can all argue all day long until the cows come home but in all honesty it really depends on the two of you. Regardless if your not comfortable in how he is engaging in speaking and dealing with these women then it's time to do something about it.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Holland said:


> hekati I don't read anything as people saying that men should not help women move heavy furniture or help them change a tyre. You may have missed the subtlety of this particular situation the OP is talking about.
> 
> I say this with all due respect to the wonderful men of the world but guys can be naive when it comes to predatory women. Most likely the OPs DH is just a good guy, friendly and does not see what the issue is.
> The real problem is the woman involved, she is a predator, she knows he is married and she is deliberately doing things that will put a wedge between husband and wife.
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

My faith is restored in TAM.

This is awesome. I have seen some really great stuff on this thread. I am totally sincere.

We guys are easy marks. We really are.


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## hekati (Jan 24, 2013)

Holland, I agree that it is a good idea to invite her sometime tho. If the wife is concerned would be better to let them know each other.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes. I am saying exactly those things. You are an awesome straight man. Folks are going to believe I am gbrad and just setting Entropy up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But I believe this is also due to the fact that you don't think men and woman should be friends with people of the opposite sex if they are married. (you can correct me if I am wrong, going off of knowledge from previous posts)
Not everyone believes this and a difference of opinion could alter this thinking. 
I personally believe that a husband and wife should be able to share their opinions on any topic and then make a decision, not have to just treat something like a dictatorship.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

gbrad said:


> But I believe this is also due to the fact that you don't think men and woman should be friends with people of the opposite sex if they are married. (you can correct me if I am wrong, going off of knowledge from previous posts)
> Not everyone believes this and a difference of opinion could alter this thinking.
> I personally believe that a husband and wife should be able to share their opinions on any topic and then make a decision, not have to just treat something like a dictatorship.


I have oppiste sex friends. I do not have close opposite sex friends. I do not hangout alone with OS friends. I'll be even clearer I work very hard and I have limited time. I invest that time in my family and my personal pursuits. I have male friends but I do not invest a great amount in time with them either. I am a hard working family guy. I travel often enough with colleagues and get plenty of bonding with men and women. There is plenty of socializing with this as well.

But my comments are about this thread and about him not respecting his wife's wishes.

When I view a situation I test it. Up front. By priority. Once I see that he is disrespecting her by not following her wishes ... nothing else matters. No need to muddy it with extraneous ... stuff or alsos. I think this way because I am an Engineer. Not everyone thinks like me nor should they. But I do have to deal with very complex and abstract topics breaking them down into their component parts. To deal with complex things one must do is abstract and simplify them to focus on what is important.

Whether I have close opposite sex friends or not is besides the point.
What does count is that I do take marriage seriously. Going off in various directions does not converge on actions or decisions. Good to have an open mind but one needs to focus on what is significant at the time. Being in the moment if you will.

Some people enjopy obfuscating as a hobby. FUD. Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.

This guy is sliding off the grid. Even many of those who have close opposite sex friends can see this.

This guy is NOT a good example of someone successfully having opposite sex friends.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

gbrad, let's looks at this from the opposite direction.

If you had a female friend who upset your wife, would you then ask your female friend to change her behavior?

For example, not respond to her calls unless she calls you on the husehold phone instead of your cellphone? Only use a joint e-mail account and address the e-mail to the both of you.....

Ensure that when you female friend visits, that she treats your wife like an equal friend and so on......

Or do you insist that only person in this triangle that has to suck it up would be your wife?


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

One thing about this thread that does cause me sorrow is the number of relationships in which one partner is unable / unwilling to trust the other.

If a partner has given you cause in the past to doubt them this attitude is understandable but to not trust without cause would seem in itself to be the start of a slippery slope. 

IMHO long term successful relationships must be bassed as much on mutual trust and understanding as they are on love.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Wiltshireman said:


> One thing about this thread that does cause me sorrow is the number of relationships in which one partner is unable / unwilling to trust the other.
> 
> If a partner has given you cause in the past to doubt them this attitude is understandable but to not trust without cause would seem in itself to be the start of a slippery slope.
> 
> IMHO long term successful relationships must be bassed as much on mutual trust and understanding as they are on love.


It isn't a trust issue, it's a boundary issue. We need healthy boundaries in most aspects of our lives, and there's every reason, IMO, why we would want to protect our intimate relationships with clear, healthy boundaries, too.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Three things to think about here:

1. All relationships have the potential to be dynamic, going from one stage to another; one type of relationship to another.

2. Male female friendships are NOT 100% interchangeable with same sex friendships.

3. Relationships do not occur in a vacuum. Every type of relationship you have can impact on the one with your spouse.

Anyone who accepts all of the above will understand why boundaries are necessary for male female friendships. boundaries are early warning signals that the relationship is not a benign friendship.


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

Didn't get around to bringing the subject up again last night so don't really have any updates. I had a little accident yesterday afternoon, I passed out in the kitchen while doing dishes. I'm not sure why I passed out but I've been exhausted and stressed out with the newborn and 3 year old. I called my husband at work and he left work to come home and watch the kids so I could rest. I have a big bump on my forehead and a little cut from something..not too sure. Anyways thank you everyone for your advice, either good or bad outcome we're trying to work on our marriage. I'm not giving up on us.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Mamabean,

Lets hope that passing out in the kitchen was just a one off due to exhaustion. If you start to feel faint on a regular basis or have further fainting incidents please go to your doctor,it could be something as simple as low blood sugar but you should get it checked out.

I hope that you and your husband can find the time and energy to talkabout your relationship and work together to improve it.

I know that you have lots on your plate ATM (relationship, kids, housework) but do remember to look after your own health.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I second Wiltshireman. Take care of yourself, Mama.


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

Holland said:


> hekati I don't read anything as people saying that men should not help women move heavy furniture or help them change a tyre. You may have missed the subtlety of this particular situation the OP is talking about.
> 
> I say this with all due respect to the wonderful men of the world but guys can be naive when it comes to predatory women. Most likely the OPs DH is just a good guy, friendly and does not see what the issue is.
> The real problem is the woman involved, she is a predator, she knows he is married and she is deliberately doing things that will put a wedge between husband and wife.
> ...


I particularly agree with the statement:

I say this with all due respect to the wonderful men of the world but guys can be naive when it comes to predatory women. Most likely the OPs DH is just a good guy, friendly and does not see what the issue is.
The real problem is the woman involved, she is a predator, she knows he is married and she is deliberately doing things that will put a wedge between husband and wife.

That's exactly how I feel...she's a threat to my marriage, even if he tells me that he wouldn't pursue anything with her it bothers me that she would even offer and therefore it's inappropriate in my eyes to continue the friendship he has with her.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Wiltshireman said:


> One thing about this thread that does cause me sorrow is the number of relationships in which one partner is unable / unwilling to trust the other.
> 
> If a partner has given you cause in the past to doubt them this attitude is understandable but to not trust without cause would seem in itself to be the start of a slippery slope.
> 
> IMHO long term successful relationships must be bassed as much on mutual trust and understanding as they are on love.


Marriage is about love and respect. Trust is by product.

Trust is also a two-way street. Meaning, if you have a friend that is too close and your spouse wants you to put your marriage first, you should trust your spouse. You should trust that they see something from their view that you do not.

You see the reason this is critical and not just important is that when we bond with someone we get some amount of oxytocin from it. That brings us closer and lowers our guard. We can then start having needs met and start getting dopamine from the relationship. This is not just common but very common. The spouse with the OS sex friend is under the natural influence of these brain chemicals. Their judgement is impaired. Seriously. People tend to make decisions based on their feelings. The thing is that very close relationship feel fine. Even when they are not fine.
You do not trust someone with an addiction to get out of it by themselves.

EAs happen between friends who bond too closely. This is very very comkon. The brain chemicals tell them all is fine. Most folks in EAs swear they are just friends. They are NOT lying. They truly believe they are just friends. However if they go NC and go through withdrawal they can then with clear mind see that they were in a EA. They do not see this when they are in the relationship. This happened to me so I am not guessing here. It happens to a lot of people. Most affairs begin this way.
Sp head this off and you head off most affairs. Affairs are not always about PIV sex. The damage to the marriage occurs welll before that and even if this never happens.

Soooo, then the spouse with the too close OS friend needs to trust the spouse who is not under the influence but the person who can see this happening. Note how often we see people at work who claim to just be friends but everyone at work knows better. They can see it. The people in the EA do not realize it. Eventually it escalates of course.

Anyway, I agree there needs to be trust. But not in the way you mean. Trust your spouse when they say your OS friend is too close. They can be more objective than you. In my case I did not believe it. However because I loved my wife I respected her and went NC. I realized later I was in an EA.

So yes trust and respect your spouse when they do not want you to destroy your marriage over an OS friend.

I trust my wife with my life. I trust that she wil look out for me / us and that I will also. That is a partnership. It is a level of a relationship many people cannot or unwilling to elevate to. 

Why in the world would a young husband and father have a female friend he met at the oil lube place where he works. WTF? What married person acquirs friends like that. Young single people live that way. They are free agents. Married people are not.

We need to trust that our spouse would not make such poor choices. So when this happens they break trust.


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## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

No one is safe men or women that is the truth it is a choice.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Mamabean said:


> She is a women he met at his work and she is also a friend of a guy he works with who is gay. The guy from work lives with his boyfriend and this women has been staying with the work friend until she could find a place to live. He has visited this work friend's house but insists she was not there when he visited. My husband works at an Oil Change Centre so she is also a customer and goes in for her car care.


I bet she was there.
Your husband works 60+ hours a week, when would he have the time to go over to a co-worker's house?
And bigger question, why would he go over to a gay co-worker's house?
It's not often you see gay & straight men hanging out together. 
Add in this other woman & it sent my "WTH" radar off.
Think about this, if your husband ONLY met her at his job, how many times has she been there & how much time have they spent together that their friendship has progressed this quickly.
This isn't adding up at all, there is something missing in the timeline, which is how did they get from, "hey Bob, meet my friend Jane, she's staying with me until she gets a place" to emailing & texting each other & him telling you she's his friend.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Seducible said:


> Like most men they tend to get bored easy. They are looking for attention and eye candy, So give it to them.
> 
> Try dressing up in lingerie or role playing. don't be shy to even introduce sex toys in the mix that will give him pleasure as well as you pleasure.


In other words, if we want more attention from our spouses / SOs, we should just break marital boundaries to get them to sit up and take notice? I think not. :scratchhead:


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

lol I just had a baby 8 weeks ago so our sex life was on the back burner for a little while. Recently though we've been very intimate together and everything is back on track in that department.


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

So this past week we've been able to talk about things and one of the main issues being this woman he's become friends with. Things are better now that I've gotten it all out and was able to have time to talk. I think the bigger issue is my insecurity in the marriage because of our issues at New year's time. I lost all my faith and security in the relationship when I was left to worry if he was leaving. I still wake up some days wondering if he will change his mind and want to leave us. I told him about all this and he said that the issues we had discussed are better and things are going great in his eyes now that everything is out in the open. Intimacy was one of the main issues and we were basically living like room-mates with 2 kids. Things are much better in that department and we show each other much more affection. We were in a funk I guess. So that's why this woman had me worried because he started being friends with her when things started to go rocky for us. He says it was a coincidence that he became friends with her at that time. He says it's obvious that he doesn't know women because he doesn't see this women as a threat to our marriage, he just doesn't see her that way. So I guess that's a good thing that he's clueless to it. He told me the last time she was at his workplace was back in November for an oil change and he saw her new year's day because he picked her and his 2 other friends up and drove them home when they were drunk. This is the same night that we had the discussion of how miserable he is with our marriage and things need to change. He promised me on his children's lives that nothing happened with her that night and he never thought of doing anything inappropriate. I believe him and think he's just clueless to her subtle advances. He told me he would never go visit her alone or with the kids and he is not helping her move because I told him I didn't feel comfortable with it. I asked him to not add any more women to his facebook that he happens to meet at work. All these issues were not a problem before that week where I thought he'd leave. I thought during that time that he was looking for someone else. He assured me that he's not going anywhere and is intent on working through our issues. I think we might need to go for marriage counselling or some kind of therapy. I am obsessed with checking up on him now. I'm checking the history on the computer to see who he's chatted with, I check his facebook to make sure he hasn't talked to that woman. I read back the conversations they've had through private messaging on facebook to analyse them for clues. Even though he's told me I have nothing to worry about I'm afraid I'll never gain the security back and I'll always be insecure. I'm scared that if I let my guard down things will fall apart.


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## Mamabean (Jan 28, 2013)

Everyone forgot about me


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Hi Mama! Sorry about that. I did read what you wrote above. It's very good that he's willing to go for therapy. You have every right to be shaken by how those events in November all came together. To hear that a spouse is even thinking of leaving is hard enough without also seeing behavior that makes one think he's looking elsewhere. 

It will take time, work on the part of BOTH of you, and commitment to get your trust back. At the very least, this looks like it was the _start_ of an EA (very possibly further than that). 

What spouses who have EAs often don't realize is that the damage done is often every bit as deep and severe as if it was a PA. Marriages are not just built on physical contact; it's the emotional connection that is paramount. So it makes sense that an EA can cause a lot of damage. Hopefully, you can find a counselor who understands this, too, and doesn't just blow you off. 

If he puts the necessary work in and wants to keep your marriage together, you're going to have to work on being able to forgive and trust him. 

And, you will also need to work on strengthening yourself. It's never good to be so dependent on a spouse for your well-being that the idea of losing them makes you fall apart. I've learned that, as have many here. Your marriage will be better if you are a stronger person on your own first. It doesn't mean you're not committed to your marriage or that you don't love your husband. You will be with him because it _adds_ to who you already are, not because it defines you. Does that make sense? I'm not sure if I'm getting it out the way I mean it.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Mamabean said:


> So this past week we've been able to talk about things and one of the main issues being this woman he's become friends with. Things are better now that I've gotten it all out and was able to have time to talk. I think the bigger issue is my insecurity in the marriage because of our issues at New year's time. I lost all my faith and security in the relationship when I was left to worry if he was leaving. I still wake up some days wondering if he will change his mind and want to leave us. I told him about all this and he said that the issues we had discussed are better and things are going great in his eyes now that everything is out in the open. Intimacy was one of the main issues and we were basically living like room-mates with 2 kids. Things are much better in that department and we show each other much more affection. We were in a funk I guess. *So that's why this woman had me worried because he started being friends with her when things started to go rocky for us. He says it was a coincidence that he became friends with her at that time. He says it's obvious that he doesn't know women because he doesn't see this women as a threat to our marriage, he just doesn't see her that way.* So I guess that's a good thing that he's clueless to it. He told me the last time she was at his workplace was back in November for an oil change and he saw her new year's day because he picked her and his 2 other friends up and drove them home when they were drunk. This is the same night that we had the discussion of how miserable he is with our marriage and things need to change. He promised me on his children's lives that nothing happened with her that night and he never thought of doing anything inappropriate. I believe him and think he's just clueless to her subtle advances. He told me he would never go visit her alone or with the kids and he is not helping her move because I told him I didn't feel comfortable with it. I asked him to not add any more women to his facebook that he happens to meet at work. All these issues were not a problem before that week where I thought he'd leave. I thought during that time that he was looking for someone else. He assured me that he's not going anywhere and is intent on working through our issues. I think we might need to go for marriage counselling or some kind of therapy. I am obsessed with checking up on him now. I'm checking the history on the computer to see who he's chatted with, I check his facebook to make sure he hasn't talked to that woman. I read back the conversations they've had through private messaging on facebook to analyse them for clues. Even though he's told me I have nothing to worry about I'm afraid I'll never gain the security back and I'll always be insecure. I'm scared that if I let my guard down things will fall apart.


It wasn't a coincidence, he readily accepted her advances, he was not a clueless bystander in their developing friendship.
He's trying to snow you, he is more than fully aware of his participation in what happened between the two of them WHILE he was having marital problems with you.
That's a VERY common occurrence & not just here on TAM.
The question becomes, did he reciprocate BEFORE or AFTER you two had problems, THAT will be critical in moving forward.
I highly recommend finding a pro marriage counselor who can help you.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Mamabean said:


> Just wanted to get people's advice on friendships while married. How would you feel if your partner added new single people to facebook because they are friends of friends and have met in person? Some innocent flirting has gone on but your partner offers to help the person out with for example....moving or relationship advice. This women has even offered to have my husband over for "play dates" with our kids. I've never met her and she also visits my husband at work. He insists they are just friends and nothing shady is going on but I think it's inappropriate for a married man to have friendships with single women. I think married people should be friends with couples or at least offer that I meet her in person and become friends with her as well. I need advice on how to explain this to my husband without it seeming controlling. I've tried to talk to him about it and his reasoning is that he's a nice guy and likes to help people.


I can handle "casual" friendships that take place strictly at work or maybe on Facebook that never involve the two of them hanging out alone for any reason, but other than that HELL NO will my wife be hanging out and spending any quality time with another dude.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

It still sounds to me like you are taking FAR too much of the blame for what HE did here.

Do you have Not Just Friends yet??

Keep snooping, and hold him accountable.


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## Ellen Steve (Jan 23, 2013)

I would like my husband to introduce me to them as soon as soon as possible, especially after he’s had a couple of visits at work. What do they do? Do they go out to lunch? Well, then invite me along next time. And he better clearly mention me in his conversations with her. In any case, it sounds like your husband is very friendly and makes friends. And while it isn’t wrong for him to have single women friends, he should at the very least involve you in a way so that you don’t feel threatened of them or suspicious of him. As for talking to him about it, the best thing to do is to initiate an invite. Tell him to invite her over for dinner one night to meet you. It doesn’t seem controlling and you can gauge his feeling by how easily he responds. You’ll also get a glimpse at how they interact and gather what it is that has drawn them towards a friendship. It all might be innocent after all.Common Marriage Issues


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Husband making new friendships with single women, ok?*



hekati said:


> It is kinda shocking to me to discover here on the forum that some people eventually would want sex with any available person of opposite sex. I thought it takes a really very special person to create a sexual desire....


Nope, my boyfriend had sex with someone he wasn't attracted to for 4 years, because she was a friend and they both had nothing else. Friends with benefits. For many people it's not a deep action at all. I don't understand either. But to some it's an itch that needs to be scratched...


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