# Will things change



## Island hopper (Apr 15, 2014)

I am very unsure of where things are going in my marriage and really could use input. Sorry this is a long story.

It all came to light about 6 weeks ago. I told my husband that I was going on a trip with a girlfriend. He has been extremely upset about not being included and/or the fact that I would be taking a vacation without him but it has escalated over the last few weeks to the point that basically he said that if I go we are done. A couple of days ago I said to him that if it has come to that then I would not go. Even though I really do want to still go. I guess I am being selfish. I haven't cancelled the trip yet. But .....

I'll try to give a brief history. We have been together about
20 years, married 3. My husband is a high functioning alcoholic.
We both work, but from time to time he has been out of work and I support him and the house. For the most part he does contribute to about 1/3 of the bills. We have been successful and have a big house on a lake, a big boat on another lake, cars, take lots of trips, etc, etc. Finances are none of the problem. The kids are all gone and have families of their own.

Fast forward to now. The arguments are being started daily by him, usually after a few drinks. He will yell and carry on for hours, through all that he keeps saying that he loves me with all his heart and that I am killing him. He always throws in there
"why did I say yes" and the fact that HE made me wait for so long before he would marry me. The next day same thing after a few drinks - and it all begins again. One night he admitted to me that he is a control freak. Basically what I get out of this is that its all about either his way or the highway. I am very tired of this.
Last week I made the mistake of going to a girlfriends house after work because I didn't want to go home to another argument and I admit I lied to him about where I was. I have never lied to him before and felt terrible about it so I fessed up the next day.
Last night again, prime example. We had some work to do around the house that required both of us to complete. We had dinner then did the work, no arguments. Afterwards he gets into a few drinks. He and I had a shower and we went to bed. It was in bed that he started the same argument AGAIN! I kept saying to him this I was very tired (because he had kept me up until about 12.30 am two nights ago) so I just wanted to go to sleep. He would not relent so I ended up leaving and sleeping in the spare room.
At 6.00 am this morning he started again. Now he NEVER gets up early with me, but this morning he had to come downstairs just to start this again. And he kept say "you did this".

Another funny thing. With all this arguing he is so touchy feely.
When we do get to bed he wants me to hug him and hold him and tell me that I love him. I just want to sleep from exhaustion and I am still mad. Why is he doing this? 

He can be a great guy, he is home earlier than I am and cooks most dinners, does some laundry, etc. So I know that if I do take this vacation he is very capable of taking care of himself.

I am getting to the point of exhaustion and am very frustrated with the whole situation. I am to the point that I think I am done because I refuse to live like this much longer. 

Can somebody help me with some ideas or thoughts. I really do love him (I am getting to the point though that I don't like him). I've told him that he HAS to stop this drinking, and as normal with most alcoholics he tries to turn the table and say that for him to stop drinking I have to quit smoking (of which he does too), or stop drinking pop. Oh, he has told me so many times that he can quit whenever he wants to and will stop but I've heard it so many times that those words mean nothing to me now.

Should I give up and get out for my own sanity? 
Maybe I am going through day to day now like a horse with blinkers on and hoping things will change and get better.
I thought that when I told him I wouldn't go life would get back to normal. Maybe there is no normal anymore.

Thoughts anyone !!!:scratchhead:


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## Feelingsadnlonely (Mar 3, 2014)

Have you ever thought about asking him to get help for his drinking? It seems that most of your problems/issues with him stem from the drinking. You may want to go with him to AA.

I know how you feel. My H is a weekend binge drinker and I do consider that an alcoholic. Once he starts, he can't stop. Ugg, and once he's had a few, I just want to get away from him. He is so annoying and I can't stand when he starts slurring his words. A lot of OUR big fights and part of what led to our separation was fights when he was drunk or he'd lie to me about his drinking (hello, I can smell it on you). 

But you are the only one that knows if he's willing to get help. He's going to have to WANT to do this for you and your marriage. Good luck to you....


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## alwayshere (Apr 16, 2014)

This sounds a lot like my situation and I ask myself the same question - should I get out for my own sanity. However, I know that is easier said than done. 
I have read codependent no more. It's a great book. If you havent read it, give it a try. I'm sure you will be able to relate and maybe it will help.
Sorry I cant give you any good advice but the truth is I am struggling with similar issues myself and havent been able to get myself out, but if you would like someone to talk to you may message me. (I wont be back online for a few days, have to keep things like this forum a secret from my very insecure husband.)
Good luck!


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Yes it's a co-dependant relationship that's un healthy. He needs to cut the boozing out. In the end it will ruin the relationship. Why do you allow it? Ask yourself that.


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## Island hopper (Apr 15, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. I never thought of being codependent.
Honestly I've never even heard the term before. I did look online at the book to see what it really means, I will read it.

As for his drinking problem. I have mentioned many many times about getting help and as with most alcoholics he will not entertain that idea. According to him, he can stop whenever he wants. Yeah right !!! To Fordsvt, drinking is not something that you allow or don't allow, they will drink anyway. And it is true what everyone says, he needs to want help before he will seek help out. AA, forget it until he wants to get help himself.

To alwayshere; I would love to hear more of what you are going through and how you get through it. I really don't want to end the marriage as I know that if that happens I will most likely remain single and alone for the rest of my life. I am scared at that thought as I am in my 50's and to be honest I am kind of turned off by the thought of any relationships at this point.
I too could NEVER tell my husband about being on this site, he would totally go crazy. It is getting more and more apparant to me how insecure he is as well.

My Dad asked me today about the trip with my girlfriend and how my husband is dealing with it. I told him some of this but certainly left out the majority of the details. He is sad for me and said that he and my Mom thought the trip would be really good for me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Island hopper said:


> he said that if I go we are done
> 
> My husband is a high functioning alcoholic.
> 
> ...


Yes. 

He may just be an escalating drunk, or he may be abusive and you're just blind to it (read Why Does He Do That? to find out). Either way, this is no way to live. He obviously is super-insecure, and if you do stay, you will have to start enacting boundaries and consequences about it. For instance, you MUST go on that vacation. I mean it. Whatever you do, do NOT back down.

The next big boundary you need is to stop allowing the chewing out. The next time he starts, hold your hand up and say 'stop it.' If he doesn't stop, you say "When you're able to talk to me in a respectful manner, I will talk. Until then, I'm not discussing anything with you." And go to another room and lock the door. If he lays in wait as he seems to do just to take it up the next time he sees you, you go for a drive. If he pounces on you again when you get back from your drive, you pack a bag and go to a friend's house or a hotel for the night. If when you come back home, he lays into you again, you get enough clothes for a few days, rinse and repeat. He'll be freaking out by now and scared that he's losing you, so it will be hard for him to calm down; this is why your consequence to him (leaving the room, leaving the house) MUST be consistent. If you leave for a week and he STILL can't talk to you without being rude and mean, well, you know the answer - you move out.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Island hopper said:


> My Dad asked me today about the trip with my girlfriend and how my husband is dealing with it. I told him some of this but certainly left out the majority of the details. He is sad for me and said that he and my Mom thought the trip would be really good for me.


Even your family knows you're being abused.


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## Island hopper (Apr 15, 2014)

So as usual he said that he would cut down on the drinking - lasted 2 days.
After 5 or 6 drinks today he was very argumentative again. He confronted me again aboug the trip and I told him that I haven't made up my mind to go or not. His response to that was "fine, when are you leaving". Not on the trip, leaving him.
I am really seeing how controlling he is. After saying that he stormed upstairs to go to bed but the bed was not made as the sheets were just washed. He said in a very mean voice "bring the bedding upsgairs", so I said I'd be there in a minute, he said "NOW". He then came downstairs while I made the bed and yelled at me to come back downstairs NOW.

I guess we will see what tommorrow holds. I don't imagine it will be good.
I don't take being ordered around like a slave very well.

I really heve to wonder though, when push comes to shove will he come to his senses and start acting like an adult?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why should he? You've taught him that you make a good slave.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

btw, you DO realize what you should have done, right? You should have handed him the pile of sheets, turned around, and left.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

I agree with Tunera.
Also you must be prepared to lose your marriage before you can ever save it.


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## Island hopper (Apr 15, 2014)

I think at this point I am prepared to lose my marriage. I am just to tired an exhausted from arguing.

Over this weekend he has flip flopped all over the place. One minute he is prepared to compromise on the vacation and then within the space of a couple hours he's not. I just am having a very hard time getting out of my mind some of the very bad things that have been said and done of the last 6 weeks. I really don't know if I can carry on. As of Friday night he said that we were done. Fine with me. Then Saturday he was all touchy feely and not a bad word was said. Sunday I got a call from my friend and her husband. He followed me all around the house to eavesdrop on the call and then asked me what was said and I wouldn't tell him. Yesterday he made a comment about the trip and that I had cancelled it - I have not and told him so on Friday. He is so confusing. Even last night I made a comment about my brother saying I could go with him to his skeet shooting club and be blew up again over that. What gives with that?

On the upside, the last 2 nights he had 0 to drink and the 3-4 days before that (aside from 1 night) 1 or 2 drinks. Maybe he will be able to conquer that problem after all. He said that HE is ready anyway. Why did it take getting to this point for him to be ready?

I


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Island hopper said:


> I really don't want to end the marriage as I know that if that happens I will most likely remain single and alone for the rest of my life. I am scared at that thought as I am in my 50's and to be honest I am kind of turned off by the thought of any relationships at this point.


So you seriously believe that living with an abusive alcoholic is better than living on your own?? You are not living. 



Island hopper said:


> On the upside, the last 2 nights he had 0 to drink and the 3-4 days before that (aside from 1 night) 1 or 2 drinks. Maybe he will be able to conquer that problem after all. He said that HE is ready anyway.* Why did it take getting to this point for him to be ready?*


He isnt ready, he is baiting you. Nothing is going to change.


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## Island hopper (Apr 15, 2014)

You are probably right, he is most likely baiting me. I wonder for what?
I know in my heart that sometime within the next couple of days he will be drunk as a skunk again. Then the arguments will be right back at a peak.

I have been reading quite a lot of posts and am learning that he has so many traits that are described here of passive/agressive, jealousy, controlling, etc. in him. All the while though he proclaims to love me. I don't doubt that as I do still love him too, but I just can't deal with these behaviours anymore. I have always backed down from him and let everything go his way but this vacation is too important to me and I have decided that I won't back down over it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

GOOD. GO. Enjoy your trip, and dont answer his calls or texts. If you are lucky then when you get back, you will be on your way to divorce. I doubt it though, because he is way too dependent on being enabled by you. You are getting stronger.


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## Island hopper (Apr 15, 2014)

Thanks, I am getting stronger. I have reconciled myself that if the marriage is going to end over this it will be him that ends it, not me. Maybe he will change over all this. I don't hope to be divorced when all is said and done because we do still love each other. Remember in the marriage vows that the minister said
"love conquers all". I hope that he is right.

I have learned quite a lot about him, and myself as well. I know these posts are all so one sided and I don't proclaim to be a saint, but I think I am a good wife and a good person. Maybe he will learn the hard way what he would be giving up. It's funny that during the arguments he keeps on saying that I am the one that would be giving up "someone who loves you".
The you being me. I wonder if anyone on these forums has had a spouse with these traits and they do honestly change?


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## bearded dragon (Apr 21, 2014)

Island Hopper jealousy is like cancer, if you can cut it out at the start of a relationship you have a chance of survival! I do believe he loves you however if he can't trust you to go away for a few days it wuill develop into him not trusting you at work or going shopping and on and on till he needs to know where you are all the time!


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## Island hopper (Apr 15, 2014)

This vacation is more than a few days, but no matter. I have never given him any reason not to trust me and now he is attacking my girlfriend as well without justification. He has known her a long time and does not question that she is a good person too. I think that started because he knew that he was having no satisfaction from attacking me in that respect.
We don't have to worry about work, because I work with all family. Shopping is most always done together. You are right though - right now he does want to know where I am at all times.

I have to wonder that he is worried that if I get away from him for a little while I may end up liking it too much.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Island hopper said:


> I have to wonder that he is worried that if I get away from him for a little while I may end up liking it too much.


This is EXACTLY what he is worried about! How is he supposed to keep functioning as the alcoholic that he is without you around to enable it? He is terrified of what it would mean to be on his own and responsible for himself.


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## Island hopper (Apr 15, 2014)

Well then, I guess he will come to the realization that I am going and that's that. And he had better work on getting over his issues. And he had better learn how to run the dishwasher.
Either that or he will end up not having a wife.

So this comes right back to my original "Will things change?".
Can he overcome these traits himself?
:scratchhead:


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Island hopper said:


> Well then, I guess he will come to the realization that I am going and that's that. And he had better work on getting over his issues. And he had better learn how to run the dishwasher.
> Either that or he will end up not having a wife.
> 
> So this comes right back to my original "Will things change?".
> ...


He isnt overcoming anything until he stops drinking. And only HE can decide to do that. I think that its unlikely to happen as long as you are around, to be honest. And who knows, he could still be a controlling a$$ even if he stops drinking, but there is no way to know until he stops. You need to be willing to end things in order for there to be any changes. Have you tried attending any Al-Anon meetings?


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## Island hopper (Apr 15, 2014)

I've never gone to Al Anon and he proclaims that he can quit on his own. I have brought up AA many times but he just ignores that line of conversation. He is a high functioning alcholic so it's not like he can't get by day to day. Generally he drinks every night and then just passes out on the couch. I usually wake him up to go to bed. He will cook, shop and clean for himself - no problems there.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Alcohol abuse has zero place in a healthy marriage. It's a third person in a marriage that destroys because of its selfish and destructive nature. Booze goes, he needs to get into AA and go clean or divorce. Don't live another day with a drunk in your life. 

I absolutely despise drunks. I honestly do not care what issues you have. Alcoholism is not a disease, its a selfish, lazy weak choice instead of dealing with your problems.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Sanity said:


> Alcohol abuse has zero place in a healthy marriage. It's a third person in a marriage that destroys because of its selfish and destructive nature. Booze goes, he needs to get into AA and go clean or divorce. Don't live another day with a drunk in your life.
> 
> I absolutely despise drunks. I honestly do not care what issues you have. Alcoholism is not a disease, its a selfish, lazy weak choice instead of dealing with your problems.


Whatever it is, it cannot be overcome without help. Island, your husband says he can do it on his own because he is not ready or serious about quitting.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Island hopper said:


> I've never gone to Al Anon and he proclaims that he can quit on his own. I have brought up AA many times but he just ignores that line of conversation. He is a high functioning alcholic so it's not like he can't get by day to day. Generally he drinks every night and then just passes out on the couch. I usually wake him up to go to bed. He will cook, shop and clean for himself - no problems there.


The main issue is that any substance abuse will literally rewire the brain to keep craving the stimulant or drug. These changes can be permanent and life altering. The non-alcoholic in the marriage must eventually make the decision to either drink with the spouse to "survive", force them to get treatment or leave.

In my experience drunks do not stop until they wrap their car around a tree and see angels or demons coming to get them. 

In short, divorce MUST be an option when dealing with alcoholics. It is that toxic to marriages.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

3Xnocharm said:


> Whatever it is, it cannot be overcome without help. Island, your husband says he can do it on his own because he is not ready or serious about quitting.


I agree but he has to want to do it. In my almost four decades on this earth with tons of alcoholics in my family including my father, I have only witness one drunk giving up the booze after being told that it was the booze or his family.


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## eblissherwin (Apr 21, 2014)

Hello,
First off, I'm sorry that you have an alcoholic in your life. I am now an adult child of a heavy drinker and substance abuser. I know the affect having such an ill person can have on another human being. There are groups called AlAnon that support family/friends of the alcoholic. My parent was also at times high functioning but at other times, low. The emotional abuse that I watched my mom, step mom and myself experience at the hands of his drinking.

How long have you known your husband to have a problem? In my experience, those with a true drinking problem usually become defensive at the suggestion of getting help. They will usually find a way to turn it around on the people closest to them through guilt and manipulation. Substance abusers are master manipulators that are able to twist thier own problem into making it someone elses. 

I won't tell you what to do because I don't know the whole story. But I do know that sadly, it becomes the people closest to the substance abuser that become the sickest (physically and mentally) from years of abuse. While an alcoholic can go seek help quitting drinking. Those that suffered through the abuse and drinking are often scarred for life and require serious support and therapy.

I know it's not an answer to your question but only you know what you need to do and what is right for you. I hope it provides perspective.


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## eblissherwin (Apr 21, 2014)

Just want to second what Sanity posted below. Alcoholics only change when rock bottom comes knocking. Spouses and children threatening to leave are sadly not rock bottom. Alcoholics are SELFISH. It's them and to hell with everybody else.


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## Island hopper (Apr 15, 2014)

OMG, you guys are scaring me. You paint a very bleak picture of my future.
The drinking got a lot worse about 3 years ago when he was laid off from work for the first time. That lasted a year, then back to work, then laid off, then back, and on and on.
If losing your wife, your home, your security blanket that he would lose by my leaving won't get him to get help then what is rock bottom?


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## Island hopper (Apr 15, 2014)

Have you heard of genetic alcholism? I have and I believe that is the problem. In his family this has affected his father, brother, 2 of his 3 kids - need I go on?

How do you get them to want to get help without leaving?
Again, I will say that I don't want to leave and at this point I don't think I would, but, he may want to call it quits, but that would be up to him.

If threats don't work - what do you think would work?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Island hopper said:


> Have you heard of genetic alcholism? I have and I believe that is the problem. In his family this has affected his father, brother, 2 of his 3 kids - need I go on?
> 
> How do you get them to want to get help without leaving?
> Again, I will say that I don't want to leave and at this point I don't think I would, but, he may want to call it quits, but that would be up to him.
> ...


What is it that is keeping you there? Sounds like misery. Just loving someone isnt enough to make a fulfilling life. Threats wont work because you will not follow through on them, they are merely empty words and he knows this. His own personal rock bottom is about the only thing that WILL work. Like someone mentioned, wrapping his car around a tree, for example. Maybe injuring someone if he is driving drunk. A bad work accident due to the drinking. Who knows? Rock bottom isnt the same for everyone. 

Possibly if you get into Al-Anon and start following the advice given there, which is mostly teaching you ways to STOP enabling his addiction, MAYBE that can push him to seek help for himself. Stop cleaning up his drunken messes behind him, stop driving him places, stop engaging in his angry outbursts, cut back on available "fun" money, stop putting him to bed when he is passed out on the floor...basically stop helping him continue his habit.


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## Island hopper (Apr 15, 2014)

Some of those things will be difficult. He doesn't drink and and drive or drink at work. Only in the evenings. The money is not an issue - we are very fortunate in that way. I guess I will have to think about what I really do that is enabling him and find ways to stop it. Immediately is can stop engaging him in arguments, that is something I have been doing. As for the bedtime thing, I will have to watch as he will wake me up to go to bed if I fall asleep watching a movie, if I don't get him up he'll stop getting me up too. Somestimes it's tit for tat.

Thanks for the information, I really do appreciate other peoples perspectives on this.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Island Hopper,

There are few in this world who have not been touched by alcoholism.

You must be prepared to leave him to save yourself. He may choose to join you

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

I agree with Longwalk.
He needs to fix his issues in order for his life to move forward. 
Also for your relationship to move forward and survive. There is no other way. No excuses.


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