# WTF



## Hosed89

Been dealing with this for a few weeks now. Marriage seemed good, then 3 weeks ago boom.

Spouse is a high school teacher teaching AP and honors level courses. Always talked about a "disgusting pig" who worked there (on his third wife, multiple affairs). He's 58, my wife is 32.

This is hard to type. 

We have 2 young kids.

Information was sent to me by an unknown sender. I thought it was a scam or bad joke, but the some proof was there. While I am not certain who sent it to me, I have 2 people I suspect it could be. 

They carried on in school, during the school day during her free time. He's an administrator, not the principal. I would have never know if someone would not have tipped me off. I have since gone through everything and found almost nothing suspicious that I missed.

When I confronted my wife, she lied to my face like a Hollywood actress. I couldn't tell she was lying to me expect for the proof I had. 

I have since used a VAR in her SUV to get more information and it confirmed the worst. She also follows his coaching. The things he tells her to say to me, she says to me. I want to throw up. She's listening to him and not me. She has has a friend that I have never liked that knew about it as well and she chimes in with the same kind of crap.

At one point he told her worst case scenario they would have to lay low for a while and could pick up again later and my wife said OK.

I've given her 3 different chances to come clean with everything and she has just lied and lied and lied. She only admits to what she is certain I know. I have not tipped my hand to everything I have yet. Although I'm not sure what good it does to still hold back at this point.

I've left a lot of stuff out, not sure it matters, this is the gist of it anyway.

It's over. I don't think there is anything left to try to save.

I'm hoping that typing this out will make me feel better. So far I just feel like crap.


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## Mr.Married

Believe it or not you are already WAY ahead of the game. You already understand you are finished, understand your wife is responsible and not only blaming the affair partner, not believing the lies, already collected the proof you need, and most importantly you aren’t doing the “pick me” and begging BS with your wife.

You’re an ace and just don’t know it yet. Chin up dude.

Find a lawyer…. always be working towards that divorce goal and don’t let her control the narrative.


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## Mr.Married

Never let her gaslight you or make it about you. If there was anything you did she could have discussed it with you or divorced you.

Cheating is 100% ….ON HER !!!

Don’t believe otherwise…. Because believe me she is about to rewrite history and tell you what a piece of trash you are when you expose the truth


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## QuietGuy

Sorry you are having to deal with this horrible situation. You don't have to prove anything to anyone. Start the divorce process. Tell her that you know for a fact she is cheating and you will not even consider reconciliation until she is completely open and honest about what she was doing. Read up on the 180 communication method and implement it. Do have sex with her. Do not beg or cry in front of her. Get a support group for yourself by confiding in a few trustworthy friends and some family members. First and foremost, take care fof yourself physically and emotionally.


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## Hosed89

Thanks for the replies. My parents have a lawyer they want me to meet with next week. I just can't see anyway to work through this aside from a divorce.

I'll try to find the 180 book on amazon . That provides some guidance or a plan to move forward?

First holiday season I've lost weight. Can't sleep and don't feel much like eating. I need to move forward in some positive way.

Please excuse typos, I really don't feel myself.


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## Hosed89

*180 Your Life New Beginnings:*
Is this what you mean quietguy? I don't have a small group, but can probably figure it out on my own.


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## Megaforce

Hosed89 said:


> Thanks for the replies. My parents have a lawyer they want me to meet with next week. I just can't see anyway to work through this aside from a divorce.
> 
> I'll try to find the 180 book on amazon . That provides some guidance or a plan to move forward?
> 
> First holiday season I've lost weight. Can't sleep and don't feel much like eating. I need to move forward in some positive way.
> 
> Please excuse typos, I really don't feel myself.


It is really traumatic. Many therapists consider cheating the worst form of emotional abuse. Glad you told your parents. See that lawyer for sure. Divorce is the best option. You will never trust your wife again, rightfully so.
How old are your kids?


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## BoSlander

@Hosed89 Your case is exactly like mine. Sorry you’re here. The “disgusting pig” comment was her way of letting you know HE was in her bucket list.

Just curious… how were they carrying out the affair? Were they meeting during girls night out? Weekends? Right before/after the school day? The more information you can give the more informed people will be and understand/relate to what happened. In exchange, you will receive very good advice as to what to do and what not to do. The goal is to be as granular as possible so that people can understand how the cheating filth carry out their activities.


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## Hosed89

Kids are 7 and 5.


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## jlg07

Here is the link to the 180:

180 for Betrayed Spouses

Oh, get checked for STD's right away (and don't have sex with her ever again).
Also, just to show her the seriousness of what she's done, DNA your kids....


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## Openminded

Sadly, your situation happens frequently. And the part about complaining how awful the affair partner is also happens frequently. Most cheaters don’t plan on breaking up their marriage (with women cheaters it’s usually because their affair partner is in it only for sex and doesn’t want to take them and their children on). If she realizes you’re considering getting out be prepared for her to start throwing sex at you to convince you to stay. Some reconcile and some get out. You’ll have to decide what’s best for you. I’m sorry you find yourself here — especially during the holidays. Try to focus on you and your children as much as possible during this time. Nothing is going to make this easy so you just have to move through it as best you can.


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## Hosed89

From everything I have so far, they don't appear to have met up outside of school. Their "meetings" took place during her planning period, and she was also able to stay late after school let out. Her workday ended before mine and she picked the kids up on her way home. She was staying in the school with him after most everyone else hit the door running and I didn't know. They did get noticed though by someone and that's how I got my information. There are at least two other women teachers he has had affairs with that still work there. Based on the VAR, they think pone of them tipped me off for spite.

Listening to the VAR has been the worst experience of my life. She's hysterical sounding in most if it. He's calm, his primary questions were what I exactly did I know, what did the proof look like, what was I going to do.

His big concern and the one he keeps driving home to her is how much trouble they can both get in. He's worried I will go to the administration or his wife. I have not done either so far.

He also keeps telling her to deny everything she can that I will want to believe her. I'm ashamed to say I would really like to have believed her and most likely would have if not for the VAR.


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## Bulfrog1987

Don’t show any more cards and keep looking.


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## Hosed89

JLG, much appreciate the link.


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## Hosed89

The kids have to be mine, everyone says how much they look like me and from the VAR it doesn't sound like this started this school year. My kids are too old.

The STD test I hadn't thought of


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## Hosed89

I meant to say it sounds like it started this school year.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Easy solution. Go to the administration and his wife simultaneously BAM! Watch them scurry!


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## Hosed89

No Longer, that is what I thought, but my parents are advising against that until I can speak to a lawyer. They think if we are divorcing that it is in my best interest to make sure she has a job.

If there was any way to save the marriage then that would have been a must.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Hosed89 said:


> No Longer, that is what I thought, but my parents are advising against that until I can speak to a lawyer. They think if we are divorcing that it is in my best interest to make sure she has a job.
> 
> If there was any way to save the marriage then that would have been a must.


You may be able to snag a nice financial settlement for yourself, too.


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## Hosed89

If I'm being honest, I'm also very embarassed that my wife would cheat on me. I don't exactly know how that conversation goes. Hi my wife is banging the overweight guy old enough to be her dad.


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## jlg07

Hosed89 said:


> The kids have to be mine, everyone says how much they look like me and from the VAR it doesn't sound like this started this school year. My kids are too old.
> 
> The STD test I hadn't thought of


No, I wasn't implying that they were not. Just the fact that you will DO the DNA test will show your wife how awful her actions were, how much they have impacted YOUR thinking about the entire history of your marriage.
It's basically a big FU to your wife....


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## Rubix Cubed

Hosed89 said:


> No Longer, that is what I thought, but my parents are advising against that until I can speak to a lawyer. They think if we are divorcing that it is in my best interest to make sure she has a job.
> 
> If there was any way to save the marriage then that would have been a must.


They are right about the job but I believe they base divorce settlements on her earning potential if she is out of work. You'd need to ask your lawyer about that and then blow it up accordingly. If you have any joint accounts you may want to move/protect 50% of them.
You are doing excellent so far. Keep playing it close to your chest and don't offer up anything about 'how you know'. It really doesn't sound like you could EVER trust her again and divorce is the only way you won't live a tortured miserable life with her second-guessing every time she leaves the house, stays late for work, or goes out with friends. If you read stories on here for awhile you will see she followed the cheater script to a tee. 
Sorry you are having to deal with this it is a horrible **** sandwich.


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## jlg07

Hosed89 said:


> If I'm being honest, I'm also very embarassed that my wife would cheat on me. I don't exactly know how that conversation goes. Hi my wife is banging the overweight guy old enough to be her dad.


You shouldn't be embarressed -- this has NOTHING to do with you, how you were as a husband, your sexual capabilities or anything like that. It is 100% on your wife and the crappy character that SHE has.


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## Laurentium

Hosed89 said:


> They think if we are divorcing that it is in my best interest to make sure she has a job.


It's a good point


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## SunCMars

No, nothing to gain, nothing to save.

She cheated on you and cheated on her children.

There is no coming back from this, especially, knowing she is lying through her teeth.

For her and the Administrator to talk this way means they have already had sex.
Why else the extreme secrecy?

Your wife's talk about him being a pig was (likely) meant to throw you off the scent.

She is remorseless and is desperately covering her own butt and reputation.


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## *Deidre*

I’m so sorry this all happened, wow. 

I think it’s great that your parents are there for you. It’s interesting how effective VAR’s are (I’ve read about those for the first time on TAM) but I’m so glad that you have the truth now, because she would keep lying and lying forever.

Your wife cheating has nothing to do with you, btw - this guy sounds gross but he may say all the right things that your wife thinks she’s missing. But, it’s not about you at all. It’s about something else, that she’ll need to sort out on her own, but I can imagine that this all feels surreal. It’s common for betrayed spouses to feel like they’re too blame in some way.

Prayers for you to stay strong through this process.🙏


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## Rubix Cubed

Hosed89 said:


> If I'm being honest, I'm also very embarassed that my wife would cheat on me. I don't exactly know how that conversation goes. Hi my wife is banging the overweight guy old enough to be her dad.


Don't let their scummy actions embarrass you. You had no control or knowledge of it so it really shouldn't reflect on you. Any consequences (getting fired, divorced, etc.) they receive are a direct result of THEIR actions. Always remember that.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Hosed89 said:


> If I'm being honest, I'm also very embarassed that my wife would cheat on me. I don't exactly know how that conversation goes. Hi my wife is banging the overweight guy old enough to be her dad.


I’ve been where you are. You have nothing to be embarrassed about. She is the one who should be embarrassed.


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## Hosed89

Deidre, the VAR is how I have found out most of what I know. I have two. I have been rotating them in her car. Her phone connects to the car bluetooth and I get both sides of the conversation when she calls from her car.

The VAR has confirmed for me.
They have been having sex in the school.
He is worried about getting fired, his licenses, and his wife finding out.

He has recently told her they need to lay low and she needs to stop calling him. She deletes the calls from her the call log in her phone, but i could see them on our mobile phone account.

After I confronted her about the deleted calls and the cell phone account, she must have picked up another phone because I now have calls that she has made that don't show up on the cell bill. The new phone is not connected to the car bluetooth so I only get her side of the call.

From the conversations with her cancerous friend, this sounds like the first time she has done this.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Consider having her served at school too for maximum shock value.


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## BoSlander

@Hosed89 Dude, this has NOTHING to do with you. Cheating is entirely 100% on her.

By what you’ve said so far and the fact that your wife hasn’t taken any odd time off or engaged in unusual social activity there is a very good chance it started this year. Do you know if the affair has advanced to the physical stage?

The “good news” is that it sounds as though this is your wife’s first _rodeo_. And the fact that she is talking in the car on the way to/back from means she is not a seasoned cheater. Furthermore, she is hysterical because she realizes her life is about to collapse. Over an old fat f-ck nonetheless.

Sounds as though you already have proof of the affair so, technically, if divorce is your desired route, you could start the 180 and separation proceedings. Unfortunately, there is no way for you to un-see and un-hear what you saw and heard. It happened, and the quicker you realize it, the better.

Would u like to work things out with her or get a divorce?


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## *Deidre*

Hosed89 said:


> Deidre, the VAR is how I have found out most of what I know. I have two. I have been rotating them in her car. Her phone connects to the car bluetooth and I get both sides of the conversation when she calls from her car.
> 
> The VAR has confirmed for me.
> They have been having sex in the school.
> He is worried about getting fired, his licenses, and his wife finding out.
> 
> He has recently told her they need to lay low and she needs to stop calling him. She deletes the calls from her the call log in her phone, but i could see them on our mobile phone account.
> 
> After I confronted her about the deleted calls and the cell phone account, she must have picked up another phone because I now have calls that she has made that don't show up on the cell bill. The new phone is not connected to the car bluetooth so I only get her side of the call.
> 
> From the conversations with her cancerous friend, this sounds like the first time she has done this.


Yea, I had only first heard of VAR’s on TAM.

I feel like crying for you. You sound so utterly blindsided. I’m so sorry. 

The fact that she bought another phone to keep this going is so scary. Like it’s scary to not know who you’re living with, who this person is that you married.

I would follow your lawyer’s advice and your parents’ suggestions - it may feel good to blow up this man’s life, but your attorney may caution you for now.


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## Hosed89

BoSlander- 100% confirmed they have been having sex in the school.


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## Hosed89

Bo, I know I can't go on like this. I would like to fight for and save my family, but I can't see that I have anything left to fight for at this point. I think divorce is my only option as she won't engage in an honest discussion.

The first time we talked, before I showed her anything she swore that I must be having a mental breakdown and needed psychiatric care to think she would ever do something like this. I knew she was lying, but didn't have all the details then. 

Then she said it looked worse than it was I should believe her, how could I think so poorly of her, etc. I honestly can't tell by looking at her or listening to her when she's lying. Either she's really good at it, or I just am not capable of figuring it out. I can't live like this.


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## *Deidre*

Hosed89 said:


> Bo, I know I can't go on like this. I would like to fight for and save my family, but I can't see that I have anything left to fight for at this point. I think divorce is my only option as she won't engage in an honest discussion.
> 
> The first time we talked, before I showed her anything she swore that I must be having a mental breakdown and needed psychiatric care to think she would ever do something like this. I knew she was lying, but didn't have all the details then.
> 
> Then she said it looked worse than it was I should believe her, how could I think so poorly of her, etc. I honestly can't tell by looking at her or listening to her when she's lying. Either she's really good at it, or I just am not capable of figuring it out. I can't live like this.


Well, she’s a liar. She has been found out and her reaction is to continue lying. And pushing it on you like how dare you think this of me, bla bla…

I’d encourage you to read the stories on here of infidelity - those who left and those who reconciled. It’s a hard road either way but it may give you some perspective.

Edit to add - it just occurred to me that they should be fired because they’re using school property (he’s using it as a breeding ground for his infidelity) to have sex, and suppose a student saw them? Ugh. I think he needs to be gone because he’s a threat to the safety and integrity of the school, too.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy

You shouldn't be embarrassed. Your wife should be the one to feel shame, embarrassment. Sorry this has happened to you.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

*Deidre* said:


> Well, she’s a liar. She has been found out and her reaction is to continue lying. And pushing it on you like how dare you think this of me, bla bla…
> 
> I’d encourage you to read the stories on here of infidelity - those who left and those who reconciled. It’s a hard road either way but it may give you some perspective.


I reconciled seven years ago after being hellbent on divorce. Long story, but I went scorched earth on POSOM and my FWW. If you desire to reconcile exposure is a must. If you are solid on divorce proceed with caution. PM me is you have questions


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## QuietGuy

It is normal to feel embarrassed, but you shouldn't. Cheating is about the cheaters shortcomings not yours, Her ability and willingness to lie so well would be an absolute deal breaker for me, How could you possibly ever trust her again. She seems to have no conscience, guilt, remorse or even regret. Regardless of what she does or says from this point on, I would recommend divorce. Just keep marching forward one step at a time, one day at a time. No need to justify yourself to her or even engage in any deep conversations. Your only goals now should be to look after your kids, look after yourself and get yourself out of infidelity. It will get better - but probably not anytime soon.


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## SunCMars

Hosed89 said:


> Deidre, the VAR is how I have found out most of what I know. I have two. I have been rotating them in her car. Her phone connects to the car bluetooth and I get both sides of the conversation when she calls from her car.
> 
> The VAR has confirmed for me.
> They have been having sex in the school.
> He is worried about getting fired, his licenses, and his wife finding out.
> 
> He has recently told her they need to lay low and she needs to stop calling him. She deletes the calls from her the call log in her phone, but i could see them on our mobile phone account.
> 
> After I confronted her about the deleted calls and the cell phone account, she must have picked up another phone because I now have calls that she has made that don't show up on the cell bill. The new phone is not connected to the car bluetooth so I only get her side of the call.
> 
> From the conversations with her cancerous friend, this sounds like the first time she has done this.


Yep, you are hosed....

She is hosed, the marriage is hosed.

_All t_hat was good and worthy, was blasted wet, and sent down the sewer to *Hell.*

And, all because the wayward wife wanted a little strange penis, from a pea-brained, corrupt and selfish Administrator.


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## Openminded

Yes, burner phones are common. She may have more than one. Thankfully, you have VAR evidence — otherwise she’d be successful at gaslighting you because you really want to believe it’s not true. My exH was an expert liar — the best I’ve ever heard — and really good at gaslighting so I know well what that’s like. I can tell you from experience that you would never trust her again (and you shouldn’t) because you can’t tell when she’s lying so how would you ever know what’s true and what’s not.


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## Tatsuhiko

Hosed89 said:


> she swore that I must be having a mental breakdown and needed psychiatric care...


Just evil. Trying to make you question your own sanity. This woman is not worth keeping, even if she suddenly becomes truthful.

Never reveal your sources, especially as VAR use is kind of a legal grey area.

Do NOT let her fool you into getting her pregnant with another child. She might try to do this as a way to chain you down further. For all we know, she could be carrying the other man's baby.

Continue to keep your cards close to the vest. Coldly determine how to work things to your legal advantage. The information you have can possibly be used to have her agree to a more favorable divorce settlement.


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## *Deidre*

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> I reconciled seven years ago after being hellbent on divorce. Long story, but I went scorched earth on POSOM and my FWW. If you desire to reconcile exposure is a must. If you are solid on divorce proceed with caution. PM me is you have questions


I remember your story and I’m happy for you that things worked out. I remember thinking back then, that you should divorce but you’re a tough man! And your wife was truly remorseful. That’s the key, I think - the wayward spouse has to do a TON of heavy lifting, and if he/she won’t, it’s not worth the painful journey, imo.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

*Deidre* said:


> I remember your story and I’m happy for you that things worked out. I remember thinking that you should divorce but you’re a tough man! And your wife was truly remorseful.


Toughness!? I was wounded to the core. It was the fact she was REMORSEFUL. Op’s wife is anything but remorseful. My FWW helped pull me out of the dark abyss I was in for other reasons. Had my wife acted as Op’s, she would have been toast.
I do not see an R with this woman. She is in Lala land.


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## BeyondRepair007

@Hosed89 I’m sorry you’re in this ****show. Your life just took a crap and you never had a choice. TAM has been there, we know your pain.

I agree with others you are doing remarkably well. I know it sucks and doesn’t feel like that, but trust us…you are doing great. You’ll come out of this right side up.

Looking one step further, after you lawyer up and start the divorce process…once she learns you are divorcing, all hell will break loose. It’s very likely that she will fall on her knees begging and will promise you the world. She knows her OM is crap and won’t take her. Or at least she will learn that.

All I’m saying is to brace yourself for a ton of confusing back and forth wild eyed emotions. But…they are all fake. She will be caught and like a wild animal will do anything to escape. Steel yourself against her. Use your anger now to get there.

Best of luck to you. You’re among friends here, no need for embarrassment. Most of us have been right where you are but few of us been able to get there so quickly.


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## *Deidre*

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Toughness!? I was wounded to the core. It was the fact she was REMORSEFUL. Op’s wife is anything but remorseful. My FWW helped pull me out of the dark abyss I was in for other reasons. Had my wife acted as Op’s, she would have been toast.
> I do not see an R with this woman. She is in Lala land.


I know you were wounded but you were strong, meaning you stuck to your values and want you wanted to see happen. I agree - the OP’s wife sounds like she’s not willing to admit how culpable she was and if there isn’t at the very least honesty, there’s nothing to build from.


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## Wolfman1968

Hosed89 said:


> Deidre, the VAR is how I have found out most of what I know. I have two. I have been rotating them in her car. Her phone connects to the car bluetooth and I get both sides of the conversation when she calls from her car.
> 
> The VAR has confirmed for me.
> They have been having sex in the school.
> He is worried about getting fired, his licenses, and his wife finding out.
> 
> He has recently told her they need to lay low and she needs to stop calling him. She deletes the calls from her the call log in her phone, but i could see them on our mobile phone account.
> 
> After I confronted her about the deleted calls and the cell phone account, she must have picked up another phone because I now have calls that she has made that don't show up on the cell bill. The new phone is not connected to the car bluetooth so I only get her side of the call.
> 
> From the conversations with her cancerous friend, this sounds like the first time she has done this.


SAVE THE RECORDINGS! DON'T ERASE OR RECORD OVER THEM WHEN YOU ROTATE! Or, at least download the recordings to a file, and keep a duplicate in a safe place (like your parents' house).


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## Wolfman1968

Also, read this sticky note by one of the former TAM members, Weightlifter. It's several years old, so the technology may not be current, but the basic concepts are sound.

Weightlifter's Standard Evidence Post


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## Evinrude58

Hosed89 said:


> Deidre, the VAR is how I have found out most of what I know. I have two. I have been rotating them in her car. Her phone connects to the car bluetooth and I get both sides of the conversation when she calls from her car.
> 
> The VAR has confirmed for me.
> They have been having sex in the school.
> He is worried about getting fired, his licenses, and his wife finding out.
> 
> He has recently told her they need to lay low and she needs to stop calling him. She deletes the calls from her the call log in her phone, but i could see them on our mobile phone account.
> 
> After I confronted her about the deleted calls and the cell phone account, she must have picked up another phone because I now have calls that she has made that don't show up on the cell bill. The new phone is not connected to the car bluetooth so I only get her side of the call.
> 
> From the conversations with her cancerous friend, this sounds like the first time she has done this.


After discussing with your attorney, I would use the affair and your evidence as leverage in getting the best possible divorce settlement.
Then, I would totally tell his wife and have his sorry ass fired if it was the last thing I ever did.
Yes, I’d do it for revenge and I’d savor ever second of it. Meh, blowing up his world so that he couldn’t keep targetting other me a wives would be a good second best reason.
After divorcing her, and blowing up his world, I’d ghost her as much as I possibly could, with the knowledge that you are waAaaAssayyyyyy better off having this happen now rather than a lifetime wasted with trash like your wife. 

You are hurting. But you are doing ok. You are handling this far better than most. Please don’t think this is something that will ruin your life, it just feels that way now. Do the best you can to get as much custody as possible with your kids and the best financial deal you can by using the leverage you have.

Get out of this as cleanly as you can do you can be at a place you can be happy in the future. You’re only in a bad place as long as you don’t take action to get yourself out of this marriage and start your life over. Taking action is the key to getting out of the pain. And yes, I do now how painful it is. Know you’re not alone in that others know how terrible this feels.


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## Mr.Married

At your weakest point you will have a moment where you think to yourself “Maybe we can get over this and be happy together again…she only lied to me about this out of fear.”

**** THAT DO NOT RECONCILE !!!!!

The cheater is the one who gets off the hook while the betrayed eats chit sandwiches the rest of their life. For every 1 decent reconciliation there are probably 10 horrible ones …..DONT DO IT.


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## CrapMan

I agree with MM. Divorce should your only option. Forget reconciliation. My exW forgave me twice; but, not after the 3rd time and I don't blame her.


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## Rus47

Hosed89 said:


> If I'm being honest, I'm also very embarassed that my wife would cheat on me. I don't exactly know how that conversation goes. Hi my wife is banging the overweight guy old enough to be her dad.


No reason for YOU to be embarrassed. She is the one who should be ashamed. Eventually HER people will need to know, I imagine her parents if they are living will be terribly ashamed of her.

The overweight guy old enough to be her dad has *something* that attracts the ladies to him like bees to honey. Evidently your "wife" is just the latest of many at the school.

BTW, this is common in the education field.


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## ShatteredKat

Hosed89

In case you have yet to read through the Weightlifters post - this is very important.


******
_So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding.
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding.
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding.

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY!

***_
No more revealing ANY info you have or how you obtained!!!!!

Consider VAR in the house also where she goes to have 'private' calls.

The posters here - all of us are sorry to see you "join" - but also - know that our advice to you is colored by our experiences. 

You may want to see more than one lawyer to get different perspective and "how to proceed" choices.

Then - look on the Internet for "how to divorce" in whatever state you reside. 

Nail down all your financials. Having all your financial info in hand when chatting with lawyer will be helpful.

Let your employer know there is a family issue taking much of your time and investigate "employee assistance" with regard to private counceling.

Get that STD testing down pronto and repeat in six months!

Prepare for the worst you can imagine! 

DV (Domestic Violence) - keep a VAR going ON YOURSELF - and maybe also video with your cell phone!
You are now seeing a person you don't know existed until the horrible news was conveyed to you.


----------



## Chillidog

Your getting some very solid advice. Hang tough.


----------



## Exit37

OP, make sure you are using an incognito browser window and closing that window out when you are posting here, or doing any knid of research or looking up lawyers, etc. Especially if POSOM is coaching her, she could start poking around to see what you are viewing online. That includes your computer, tablet, phone, etc. Good luck.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Tatsuhiko said:


> Just evil. Trying to make you question your own sanity. This woman is not worth keeping, even if she suddenly becomes truthful.
> 
> Never reveal your sources, especially as VAR use is kind of a legal grey area.
> 
> Do NOT let her fool you into getting her pregnant with another child. She might try to do this as a way to chain you down further. For all we know, she could be carrying the other man's baby.
> 
> Continue to keep your cards close to the vest. Coldly determine how to work things to your legal advantage. The information you have can possibly be used to have her agree to a more favorable divorce settlement.





*Deidre* said:


> I know you were wounded but you were strong, meaning you stuck to your values and want you wanted to see happen. I agree - the OP’s wife sounds like she’s not willing to admit how culpable she was and if there isn’t at the very least honesty, there’s nothing to build from.


@Hosed89 wife has no redeeming virtue currently. Can she? Yes, if she comes clean 100% and begs for forgiveness and reaches a stage of remorse.

Right now she is his enemy. He needs to remember this in dealing with her.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Once again this posts brings out the “Sun Tzu” in this old marine. @Hosed89 why not pull one on her. Come in with a long face Monday after work and tell her you have STD and the only person you have been with is her?


----------



## Hosed89

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. This is helpful.

My parents are coming over to talk to me tonight. My dad is bringing a new bourbon we read about to try.

My wife is staying at her mom's house a few miles away with kids- my request. She's pissed says she belongs in her own home with all of us as a family and that I can't see how dedicated she is when she's not here with me. I guess there is truth to that, but I just can't take anymore lies right now.

tatsuhiko, I sent you a message with a question. I think I did it right. If you have a chance to take a look I would appreciate it.


----------



## Openminded

Well, it doesn’t appear that she wants a divorce (he doesn’t want her so why would she want out) and she’s likely to try whatever she can think of — especially sex — to convince you to keep her. I’m sure your parents have your best interests at heart (I certainly did when my child discovered they had a cheating spouse). I hope it works out well for you.


----------



## Openminded

You might consider having this moved to the Private forum. Less searchable that way.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Hosed89 said:


> Thank you all for taking the time to respond. This is helpful.
> 
> My parents are coming over to talk to me tonight. My dad is bringing a new bourbon we read about to try.
> 
> My wife is staying at her mom's house a few miles away with kids- my request. She's pissed says she belongs in her own home with all of us as a family and that I can't see how dedicated she is when she's not here with me. I guess there is truth to that, but I just can't take anymore lies right now.
> 
> tatsuhiko, I sent you a message with a question. I think I did it right. If you have a chance to take a look I would appreciate it.


Keep her out of the house. “Dedicated “? Now that is a WTF for certain. **** her and feed her sorry ass fish heads.


----------



## Evinrude58

Yeah, that’s the problem, he does see how dedicated she is when she’s not with him. She’s dedicated to banging her AP while she’s at work and not with the OP.
I think the OP sees that she’s really, really dedicated to cake eating.

That’s really some admirable dedication there.

I hope OP can keep from hurling at such comments as these that she makes while his attorney is getting his case together.


----------



## Tdbo

Hosed89 said:


> No Longer, that is what I thought, but my parents are advising against that until I can speak to a lawyer. They think if we are divorcing that it is in my best interest to make sure she has a job.
> 
> If there was any way to save the marriage then that would have been a must.


If she is a member of a Teacher's Union, odds are that she will be fine.
The biggest hit will be to her reputation, and she may be in the "Broken Toy Bin" of the district for awhile.
If he is an Administrator in the district, odds are that he will be the one that is toast.
Make a copy of your evidence, and set up an appointment with the Superintendent of the district.
Tell him/her that they can clean up the mess, or you will blow it up.
Find out the individual school board members and reach out to them. Work them as well.
Do everything you can to turn Lover Boy's a** into grass.
You deserve it, the good teachers in the district deserve it, the community deserves it, and above all, the kids deserve it.
Yes, I speak from experience (31 years in Education, 22 as an administrator,) and unfortunately, I have had to investigate and deal with incidents very similar to this.


----------



## Tdbo

jlg07 said:


> No, I wasn't implying that they were not. Just the fact that you will DO the DNA test will show your wife how awful her actions were, how much they have impacted YOUR thinking about the entire history of your marriage.
> It's basically a big FU to your wife....


This. Make sure she's there when you swab 'em..


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Hosed89 said:


> tatsuhiko, I sent you a message with a question. I think I did it right. If you have a chance to take a look I would appreciate it.


I responded. Definitely a question for your lawyer.


----------



## VintageRetro

@Hosed89 I'm sorry you are going through this and believe me when I say I understand the chaos in your life right now.

As someone that found out about their xw's affair from the AP's spouse I beg you to please, when it's advantageous to you, please tell the other betrayed spouse. She deserves the opportunity to decide her own fate in her marriage.

Make yourself number one right now. Your children need you healthy and strong. Stay quiet. Make your plans. Take advantage of your support group. This is not something you should handle alone. 

I wish you the best. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk


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## gr8ful1

Good to hear from you VR. Hope you & your son are doing well!


----------



## jparistotle

Hosed89 said:


> Thank you all for taking the time to respond. This is helpful.
> 
> My parents are coming over to talk to me tonight. My dad is bringing a new bourbon we read about to try.
> 
> My wife is staying at her mom's house a few miles away with kids- my request. She's pissed says she belongs in her own home with all of us as a family and that I can't see how dedicated she is when she's not here with me. I guess there is truth to that, but I just can't take anymore lies right now.
> 
> tatsuhiko, I sent you a message with a question. I think I did it right. If you have a chance to take a look I would appreciate it.


As they say roaches scurry when they see light. Time to bring this all into the light of day. Inform the school. Inform his wife. Inform all the husbands. Inform yur inlaws. Start the divorce dicussions. Tell you wife you know everything and protect your kids. inform her you did not sign up for this and it is over then fight for the kids at every turn. Let her know your are moving on with then new reality. 
Let her know you now know you now see her for what she is. End of storry


----------



## Wolfman1968

jparistotle said:


> As they say roaches scurry when they see light. Time to bring this all into the light of day. Inform the school. Inform his wife. Inform all the husbands. Inform yur inlaws. Start the divorce dicussions. Tell you wife you know everything and protect your kids. inform her you did not sign up for this and it is over then fight for the kids at every turn. Let her know your are moving on with then new reality.
> Let her know you now know you now see her for what she is. End of storry


No. 

It's not time to inform ANYONE until he gets the OK from his attorney.

He's not aiming to achieve reconciliation, so the timing of exposure should be coordinated with his legal situation.


----------



## jparistotle

Wolfman1968 said:


> No.
> 
> It's not time to inform ANYONE until he gets the OK from his attorney.
> 
> He's not aiming to achieve reconciliation, so the timing of exposure should be coordinated with his legal situation.


Seems they already know. They alerted him and are playing damage control.


----------



## VintageRetro

gr8ful1 said:


> Good to hear from you VR. Hope you & your son are doing well!


Thank you. Doing great. He'll be one soon. He's my little bodyguard. 


Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk


----------



## gameopoly5

Hosed89 said:


> Been dealing with this for a few weeks now. Marriage seemed good, then 3 weeks ago boom.
> 
> Spouse is a high school teacher teaching AP and honors level courses. Always talked about a "disgusting pig" who worked there (on his third wife, multiple affairs). He's 58, my wife is 32.
> 
> This is hard to type.
> 
> We have 2 young kids.
> 
> Information was sent to me by an unknown sender. I thought it was a scam or bad joke, but the some proof was there. While I am not certain who sent it to me, I have 2 people I suspect it could be.
> 
> They carried on in school, during the school day during her free time. He's an administrator, not the principal. I would have never know if someone would not have tipped me off. I have since gone through everything and found almost nothing suspicious that I missed.
> 
> When I confronted my wife, she lied to my face like a Hollywood actress. I couldn't tell she was lying to me expect for the proof I had.
> 
> I have since used a VAR in her SUV to get more information and it confirmed the worst. She also follows his coaching. The things he tells her to say to me, she says to me. I want to throw up. She's listening to him and not me. She has has a friend that I have never liked that knew about it as well and she chimes in with the same kind of crap.
> 
> At one point he told her worst case scenario they would have to lay low for a while and could pick up again later and my wife said OK.
> 
> I've given her 3 different chances to come clean with everything and she has just lied and lied and lied. She only admits to what she is certain I know. I have not tipped my hand to everything I have yet. Although I'm not sure what good it does to still hold back at this point.
> 
> I've left a lot of stuff out, not sure it matters, this is the gist of it anyway.
> 
> It's over. I don't think there is anything left to try to save.
> 
> I'm hoping that typing this out will make me feel better. So far I just feel like crap.


This is a heartbreaking situation that has happened to you, I know how it feels because similar happened to me with my first wife.
As for the wife denying everything, women are masters at the game of deceit, lies and deception. What she`s doing is described as gaslighting, meaning she is trying to make you believe you`re the crazy one.
You must now consider the person you love and the mother of your children as your worse enemy as horrible as it may sound.
Considering you have 2 young children you`re a husband being screwed over for alimony and child support waiting to happen, you must get ahead of the game to protect your own a*s, so to speak.
Hope you have kept all the evidence you`ve obtained against her.
First, do not confront your wife any more and sleep in a separate room. Under no circumstances leave the marital home otherwise she`ll say you deserted her and the kids.
When your wife is out try and have secret cameras installed in the home in case she tries to say you are abusive or attacked her.
Without your wife`s knowledge see a lawyer for legal advice.
Without warning your wife, visit the principal at the school, explain what has happened. Also inform the AP`s wife.
Then when this has been completed, file for divorce.
Again, sorry this has happened to you and know it stinks, but you must take action.
BTW, I am a retired divorce legal executive.


----------



## sokillme

Unfortunately we see it over and over on here, some folks can't keep good partners. They basically have had a moment where they shoot out of their league but once they come back to earth and the whole thing just blows up. 

Here are the people who handle it the best. You will see a common theme, which is be assertive and bold.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Hosed89 said:


> Been dealing with this for a few weeks now. Marriage seemed good, then 3 weeks ago boom.
> 
> Spouse is a high school teacher teaching AP and honors level courses. Always talked about a "disgusting pig" who worked there (on his third wife, multiple affairs). He's 58, my wife is 32.
> 
> This is hard to type.
> 
> We have 2 young kids.
> 
> Information was sent to me by an unknown sender. I thought it was a scam or bad joke, but the some proof was there. While I am not certain who sent it to me, I have 2 people I suspect it could be.
> 
> They carried on in school, during the school day during her free time. He's an administrator, not the principal. I would have never know if someone would not have tipped me off. I have since gone through everything and found almost nothing suspicious that I missed.
> 
> When I confronted my wife, she lied to my face like a Hollywood actress. I couldn't tell she was lying to me expect for the proof I had.
> 
> I have since used a VAR in her SUV to get more information and it confirmed the worst. She also follows his coaching. The things he tells her to say to me, she says to me. I want to throw up. She's listening to him and not me. She has has a friend that I have never liked that knew about it as well and she chimes in with the same kind of crap.
> 
> At one point he told her worst case scenario they would have to lay low for a while and could pick up again later and my wife said OK.
> 
> I've given her 3 different chances to come clean with everything and she has just lied and lied and lied. She only admits to what she is certain I know. I have not tipped my hand to everything I have yet. Although I'm not sure what good it does to still hold back at this point.
> 
> I've left a lot of stuff out, not sure it matters, this is the gist of it anyway.
> 
> It's over. I don't think there is anything left to try to save.
> 
> I'm hoping that typing this out will make me feel better. So far I just feel like crap.


File on grounds of cheating, she is very cooperative or you air her dirty secrete far and wide. Get divorce signed and blow it up with school board. Send her back to the streets where she belongs. If he is married or has GF, blow it up there.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

Expose this to the employer. She is more than capable of finding other employment.They both deserve everything they have coming to them.


----------



## BoSlander

*Deidre* said:


> The fact that she bought another phone to keep this going is so scary.


I can almost guarantee you that that was HIS suggestion. That is a seasoned cheater move.


----------



## BoSlander

Hosed89 said:


> BoSlander- 100% confirmed they have been having sex in the school.


They could really get in BIG trouble for this.


----------



## BoSlander

Evinrude58 said:


> Yeah, that’s the problem, he does see how dedicated she is when she’s not with him. She’s dedicated to banging her AP while she’s at work and not with the OP.
> I think the OP sees that she’s really, really dedicated to cake eating.
> 
> That’s really some admirable dedication there.
> 
> I hope OP can keep from hurling at such comments as these that she makes while his attorney is getting his case together.


If sounds as though *HE* has been grooming her (into a good/obedient cheater) for a while... her reaction in the car points to him training her on what to do and say to not get caught. Now she's absorbed the information and is trying to gaslight the OP with every exchange. What IS puzzling to me is how quickly she has learned to compartmentalize her life. I bet, just like my ex, with time, she gradually stopped talking about work, making sure to always speak negatively of coworkers (to keep the unsuspecting husband off of the scent) and to completely remove the school from anything being discussed at home.


----------



## BoSlander

Tdbo said:


> Yes, I speak from experience (31 years in Education, 22 as an administrator,) and unfortunately, I have had to investigate and deal with incidents very similar to this.


Have you noticed a change in the cheating patterns among education sector employees? I mean, their cheating now seems, to me at least, so secretive even a PI would have issues getting them busted. My ex was doing her thing with the OM during school hours and never went out or stayed late (aside from the parking lot BJ or a one-off hiking in the park with friends event). I mean... doing it in the school?! Are you kidding me??? Even the principal would have an issue finding out.


----------



## Rus47

Hosed89 said:


> Thank you all for taking the time to respond. This is helpful.
> 
> My parents are coming over to talk to me tonight. My dad is bringing a new bourbon we read about to try.
> 
> My wife is staying at her mom's house a few miles away with kids- my request. *She's pissed says she belongs in her own home* with all of us as a family and that I can't see how dedicated she is when she's not here with me. I guess there is truth to that, but I just can't take anymore lies right now.
> 
> tatsuhiko, I sent you a message with a question. I think I did it right. If you have a chance to take a look I would appreciate it.


So this implies that she knows divorce is imminent? When and how did that happen? I thought you were keeping cards close until the attorney had the paperwork ready and you finished preliminaries like adjusting bank accounts, credit cards, etc.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Tested_by_stress said:


> Expose this to the employer. She is more than capable of finding other employment.They both deserve everything they have coming to them.





BoSlander said:


> Have you noticed a change in the cheating patterns among education sector employees? I mean, their cheating now seems, to me at least, so secretive even a PI would have issues getting them busted. My ex was doing her thing with the OM during school hours and never went out or stayed late (aside from the parking lot BJ or a one-off hiking in the park with friends event). I mean... doing it in the school?! Are you kidding me??? Even the principal would have an issue finding out.


one of our friends years ago found out his wife, a principal, was doing the janitor. The school district fired them both pronto.


----------



## BoSlander

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> one of our friends years ago found out his wife, a principal, was doing the janitor. The school district fired them both pronto.


IN the school???


----------



## BoSlander

@Hosed89 Dude, mouth shut, ears open. Otherwise the drama you will be subjected to will make you want to jump off a building. Pay her adultery with the same currency: lies, silence, minimizing and trickle truth. At the same time, protect your assets, start working on the divorce and separation with your attorney (so as to find out what your future life is going to look like) and letting your kid know you're divorcing his mom (as well as finding help for him/her). Do not have sex with her and have all interactions recorded because she WILL call the cops on you and lie.

Let your attorney know if there is an issue with you breaking the adultery to the OM's wife, the school system they both work for and her family and, if not, let them have it.

Good luck.


----------



## gr8ful1

My advice: do NOTHING until you’ve met with your attorney and have formulated a full game plan. You may very well be able to leverage exposure to get a better settlement with your STBXW but you have to do it exactly right, hence the need for the attorney. After the divorce you’ll likely be able to blow up both their worlds.


----------



## gr8ful1

In the mean time I’d advise doing the 180, and if necessary, simply say you’re feeling ill (no doubt you are) and therefore you’ll be sleeping in another room and avoiding her.


----------



## Rus47

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> one of our friends years ago found out his wife, a principal, was doing the janitor. The school district fired them both pronto.


This certainly seems a wonderful outcome for the BH in terms of getting "revenge" on both. But there are always the side effects and unforeseen consequences for any action. In this case, the wife who had a good paying job is now unemployed ( and maybe unemployable ). So the potential exposure of the BH to more spousal and child support is a possible result. The janitor may take offense at being outed and make it his purpose in life to get even with BH. In any case, seems to me the OP needs to keep his "eye on the ball" to get the divorce, custody, asset, support agreed to and done ASAP, so getting wound around the axle trying to get back at his spouse won't do anything but make his life more miserable.

Wouldn't better pathway be to follow the attorney's advice in these matters, have the attorney draft a letter to the wife *implying* that cooperation in the process will make things easier on her and AP without explicitly stating as much. Then, when the divorce is done, expose the sordid details to one and all, maybe on SM.

One thing that is a little concerning is the VAR thing. In this case, both parties to the telephone conversation were recorded, without their knowledge. Most states that don't prohibit using VARs outright have a "one party" consent rule, that is if either party to a telephone discussion gives permission, recording the conversation is not illegal. So for example if OP were talking with his wife on the telephone, he could record the conversation without her knowledge. Several states require that both parties be informed they are being recorded.

So, I would think that the VAR info is only of use having informed OP of the facts. And he must not ever reveal the source of his information to either her or AP. A VAR on he person while wife is around is now advisable, and letting her know that she is being recorded might prevent her from trying the false DV charges.

Further that, personally I would be concerned that eventually they suspect a VAR is in her car, search for and find it. In OP's shoes, he now knows what has been going on so more information is unnecessary and pointless. Remove the VAR from her car and instead carry it on his person 24x7. Remember, the AP has been doing other married women so he knows the ropes well as to how to be the OM without consequences. He knows what a suspicious husband is liable to do seeking information.

BTW, he needs to get a keyed lock for the room he will now sleep in and lock the door when he is there and when he isn't. See @Vaughan thread for why.


----------



## Tdbo

BoSlander said:


> Have you noticed a change in the cheating patterns among education sector employees? I mean, their cheating now seems, to me at least, so secretive even a PI would have issues getting them busted. My ex was doing her thing with the OM during school hours and never went out or stayed late (aside from the parking lot BJ or a one-off hiking in the park with friends event). I mean... doing it in the school?! Are you kidding me??? Even the principal would have an issue finding out.


No, there really hasn't really been much of a change in such events.
The messiest that I was ever involved in was the head secretary in our building involved in a tryst with the head football coach (both were married.) They were hooking up and were using the school clinic (and the boiler room) as their hookup points after hours, until they were caught by the night custodian. During the investigation, we found that they did a pretty good job documenting their exploits on school e-mail. The one quote that I will always remember until the day that I die: "The cherry pie in the clinic is the best."
Actually with the advent of school security, and in some cases newer buildings, it has become easier to find out. When you catch on video a male and female coming out of a one hole men's restroom, it is pretty clear cut what was going on. It certainly wasn't that the guy was wearing a cast, and needed help wiping his a** after taking a dump.
My opinion on why you see these types of situation in the building is that there are a percentage of teachers who have never really grown up and "Out" of high school. They still (at an emotional level) see themselves as 15-16 years old and are still very much caught up and in the pomp and circumstance of high school. They are easy to identify. They are as wrapped up in the activity as the kids. For instance, they are as wrapped up in Homecoming (or even more so) as the kids, and are there side by side building a float with the same level of excitement. How this level of "Enthusiasm" translates into the current topic, may be that the 32 year old mother/professional may not view who she is banging in the classroom as a 58 year old washup, she may be viewing him as the favorite teacher/principal that she had (and always wanted to do.) 
Then you have another group that at least have the commonsense not to "S**t where they eat." They will keep their trysts out of the building, and the drama as well. They are discrete, and operate in that mode. Generally, we may never know or hear about it (unless it is discovered, blows up, and gets messy.) 
My fourth paragraph IMO really sums up the difference between an educational setting and a normal employment setting. The vast majority of people (at least where I was and prior to my retirement) were good people who wanted to do the best job possible for kids. The vast majority of us there had morals and integrity. In my 31 years in education, I didn't cheat on my wife because I have morals and integrity. However, there were "Rabbit Holes" available, that those who didn't could avail themselves in. However, those same pathways are available to anyone in virtually any walk of life.
In summation: s*itty people are gonna be s*itty people, regardless of wherever they are.


----------



## Hosed89

I appreciate the link to other stories and the other sites. I've spent some time reading and am more depressed in some ways than I was before.

Rus, you asked how she knows I'm considering a divorce. I didn't know I was supposed to keep that to myself and some of our exchanges have been very emotional. I thought I was doing pretty good at keeping my stuff close, but guess I should have not said that either? I was really trying to get her to be honest with me. I'd still like that. Basically, I told her she was leaving me no choice except divorce. That happened a few days ago.

She's coming back today for another round of this drama that seems to go no where. 

I have read about asking for a timeline. I'm thinking that I'm going to ask her for that, make an appointment for the lawyer as soon as I can get one, and pulling the VAR until I can speak to the lawyer. I already have more than enough VAR recordings any way. I do have them saved in a safe place. 

My mom is pushing real hard for me to see a doctor to to get tested and my dad ordered some DNA kit online last night. I can't believe this is my life.

I'm also trying to process the 180 stuff. Some of it seems easier than others. Is that mostly though to get to reconcile?

TDBO, I sent you a message, can you check it if you have time? Thanks.


----------



## Hosed89

Not sure if I made this clear either, but it sure sounds like my wife's old fat boyfriend dumped her.

Not sure why this seems so important to me, but it does.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Hosed89 said:


> Not sure if I made this clear either, but it sure sounds like my wife's old fat boyfriend dumped her.
> 
> Not sure why this seems so important to me, but it does.


Who cares if he dumped her (except for schadenfreude), the damage to your relationship is already done and can't be undone. Proceed as if they are still in the affair. After all if it were up to her, they still would be.


----------



## *Deidre*

He dumped her because he’s worried that his wife and employer are about to find out just exactly what he’s been doing.

I wouldn’t get into too much drama with your wife; she messed up and wants to turn back time to before this happened, and expects you to sweep this out of your mind. She is quite scared - and the only reason she’s interested in not divorcing.

If you never used the VAR, she’d still be lying.

I applaud your parents! They are standing by you which you need a strong support system now. Stay strong!🙏


----------



## Exit37

Hosed89 said:


> Not sure if I made this clear either, but it sure sounds like my wife's old fat boyfriend dumped her.
> 
> Not sure why this seems so important to me, but it does.


Well you said it earlier, he's scared to death that, despite all his "coaching" and "experience" in having affairs, you've found out and are going to out him to the OBS and get him fired. I would be surprised if he did anything different. At least you can be sure that he's ****ting his pants right now over what you might do.

Remember, if you do nothing, there is a very good chance that he will eventually get up the courage to reach out to your WW again. So meet with your lawyer, put a game plan together, and the plan needs to include outing the affair to his wife (OBS) and possibly the school. Or, you can just have your WW quit first, then out him later... Lots of options.

Regardless, write down your game plan. Fee free to run it by the folks here. You've been given "sample" plans above... And I would stop talking with your WW for a few days, until you can get yourself together and talk with the lawyer. Have her move in with her parents or a local friend. Good luck.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

BoSlander said:


> IN the school???


Yes they were doing the horizontal mambo in one of the locker rooms during school hours. Busted by one of the coaches


----------



## Tdbo

Hosed89 said:


> I appreciate the link to other stories and the other sites. I've spent some time reading and am more depressed in some ways than I was before.
> 
> Rus, you asked how she knows I'm considering a divorce. I didn't know I was supposed to keep that to myself and some of our exchanges have been very emotional. I thought I was doing pretty good at keeping my stuff close, but guess I should have not said that either? I was really trying to get her to be honest with me. I'd still like that. Basically, I told her she was leaving me no choice except divorce. That happened a few days ago.
> 
> She's coming back today for another round of this drama that seems to go no where.
> 
> I have read about asking for a timeline. I'm thinking that I'm going to ask her for that, make an appointment for the lawyer as soon as I can get one, and pulling the VAR until I can speak to the lawyer. I already have more than enough VAR recordings any way. I do have them saved in a safe place.
> 
> My mom is pushing real hard for me to see a doctor to to get tested and my dad ordered some DNA kit online last night. I can't believe this is my life.
> 
> I'm also trying to process the 180 stuff. Some of it seems easier than others. Is that mostly though to get to reconcile?
> 
> TDBO, I sent you a message, can you check it if you have time? Thanks.


Hosed, saw and responded to your message. Hope it was of some help.
Even though the VAR cannot be used for anything in a legal proceeding and could potentially be illegal, I'd keep it going (as long as you can do so discreetly) and DO NOT DISCLOSE that you have one there or disclose where you are getting the info from. Trickle just enough general information to let her know that you are on to her, but not the specialized knowledge that you have garnered from the VAR. If she presses, her that you have a source inside the school. That will make her paranoid AF, and perhaps she will slip up.
Definitely implement the 180. That is to help you emotionally detach, and make her experience such.
IF she comes back to the house, move her out of the master and secure the room, at least until such time as she has had a full battery of STD testing. Swab the kids in front of her. Deploy VAR's throughout the house.
She needs to experience and feel consequences. You will get nowhere until you harsh her buzz and she breaks out of her affair delusions.


----------



## Openminded

Hosed89 said:


> Not sure if I made this clear either, but it sure sounds like my wife's old fat boyfriend dumped her.
> 
> Not sure why this seems so important to me, but it does.


Yeah, that was totally predictable. He’s after easy sex — not taking on a new wife who’s a cheater with small children to deal with. She may or may not have had the fantasy of dumping you for him but now that option’s unavailable. He’s probably already got the new one picked out or — more likely — he may have decided to hide out for awhile since he knows that you know and he’s scared of the consequences. So back to you it is — also totally predictable. Don’t ever be tempted to let that happen since you can’t tell when she’s lying.


----------



## *Deidre*

Do your parents want you to divorce her, @Hosed89 ?


----------



## Megaforce

gr8ful1 said:


> My advice: do NOTHING until you’ve met with your attorney and have formulated a full game plan. You may very well be able to leverage exposure to get a better settlement with your STBXW but you have to do it exactly right, hence the need for the attorney. After the divorce you’ll likely be able to blow up both their worlds.


This is good advice. Leveraging exposure is delicate. Your attorney should know how to walk the line between pointing out their risk and extortion. Gotta be super careful about this.
My buddy did it extremely well. Got him out of any spousal support after a 23 year marriage to a stay at home wife, in California, no less.


----------



## Megaforce

Rus47 said:


> This certainly seems a wonderful outcome for the BH in terms of getting "revenge" on both. But there are always the side effects and unforeseen consequences for any action. In this case, the wife who had a good paying job is now unemployed ( and maybe unemployable ). So the potential exposure of the BH to more spousal and child support is a possible result. The janitor may take offense at being outed and make it his purpose in life to get even with BH. In any case, seems to me the OP needs to keep his "eye on the ball" to get the divorce, custody, asset, support agreed to and done ASAP, so getting wound around the axle trying to get back at his spouse won't do anything but make his life more miserable.
> 
> Wouldn't better pathway be to follow the attorney's advice in these matters, have the attorney draft a letter to the wife *implying* that cooperation in the process will make things easier on her and AP without explicitly stating as much. Then, when the divorce is done, expose the sordid details to one and all, maybe on SM.
> 
> One thing that is a little concerning is the VAR thing. In this case, both parties to the telephone conversation were recorded, without their knowledge. Most states that don't prohibit using VARs outright have a "one party" consent rule, that is if either party to a telephone discussion gives permission, recording the conversation is not illegal. So for example if OP were talking with his wife on the telephone, he could record the conversation without her knowledge. Several states require that both parties be informed they are being recorded.
> 
> So, I would think that the VAR info is only of use having informed OP of the facts. And he must not ever reveal the source of his information to either her or AP. A VAR on he person while wife is around is now advisable, and letting her know that she is being recorded might prevent her from trying the false DV charges.
> 
> Further that, personally I would be concerned that eventually they suspect a VAR is in her car, search for and find it. In OP's shoes, he now knows what has been going on so more information is unnecessary and pointless. Remove the VAR from her car and instead carry it on his person 24x7. Remember, the AP has been doing other married women so he knows the ropes well as to how to be the OM without consequences. He knows what a suspicious husband is liable to do seeking information.
> 
> BTW, he needs to get a keyed lock for the room he will now sleep in and lock the door when he is there and when he isn't. See @Vaughan thread for why.


Extremely good advice.


----------



## Megaforce

Tdbo said:


> Hosed, saw and responded to your message. Hope it was of some help.
> Even though the VAR cannot be used for anything in a legal proceeding and could potentially be illegal, I'd keep it going (as long as you can do so discreetly) and DO NOT DISCLOSE that you have one there or disclose where you are getting the info from. Trickle just enough general information to let her know that you are on to her, but not the specialized knowledge that you have garnered from the VAR. If she presses, her that you have a source inside the school. That will make her paranoid AF, and perhaps she will slip up.
> Definitely implement the 180. That is to help you emotionally detach, and make her experience such.
> IF she comes back to the house, move her out of the master and secure the room, at least until such time as she has had a full battery of STD testing. Swab the kids in front of her. Deploy VAR's throughout the house.
> She needs to experience and feel consequences. You will get nowhere until you harsh her buzz and she breaks out of her affair delusions.


No need for further information or consequence other than divorce. OP is " fortunate ". Unlike many of us who went through protracted investigations, he knows everything he needs. 
I would ditch the VAR in the car for legal reasons, as others have mentioned.


----------



## Tdbo

Megaforce said:


> No need for further information or consequence other than divorce. OP is " fortunate ". Unlike many of us who went through protracted investigations, he knows everything he needs.
> I would ditch the VAR in the car for legal reasons, as others have mentioned.


Given some other information not contained within the thread, he would be well advised to continue with the VAR for a short while longer, as long as he can do so discretely.


----------



## BoSlander

@Tdbo That is fascinating. Do you ever check internal communications on these cheaters? Reason I ask is because, in my case, my XW and her ex OM (he dumped her as soon as he found out I was onto him,) at one point, went off grid and were only communicating via Google Docs and work email.

Furthermore, since you have privileged information, if someone were to have a school employee husband/wife that he/she suspects is also “off grid” and carrying on the adultery solely in the school, is there anything they can do to find out if that is the case? Is there someone they can contact? 

I’d heard someone say to try to contact the security guards or janitors AFTER school, but I’m not sure if that is a smart idea.


----------



## BoSlander

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Yes they were doing the horizontal mambo in one of the locker rooms during school hours. Busted by one of the coaches


They were begging to get caught then.


----------



## Megaforce

BoSlander said:


> They were begging to get caught then.


Unless they are mentally deficient, I think many cheaters , at least subconsciously, want to end their marriages. But, they do not want to act responsibly and honorably. They,for some reason I cannot understand, seem to feel that just because they are not th he ones to initiate the divorce, they did not cause the marriage to be destroyed. 
Who in their right mind thinks like this?


----------



## Sparky282

I’m so sorry this happened to you.

I know you are so hurt and your emotions are running high. That’s why you are not even capable of thinking completely correctly.

man’s it’s understandable. Your entire life has been blown up. Out of know where. You have been hit it an honest to god trauma. One of the worst things that will ever happen to you in your life. You will not do anything 100% correclty

1st if your parents can stay with you I would ask them to. As much as possible. You need support.
you need to talk to a lawyer asap. Different places have different rules and they will give you specific advise for your specific situation.

you need to file and protect your self at all cost. You can always stop it later.

also your parents are correct. Don’t blow up the job until you have talked to the lawyer.

you may have to go through the divorce process. Then blow the job up afterwards. Same applies to the wife.

Also if there is a chance to save the marriage your wife needs to do it. In your presence. She will take you in to tell the principal why she’s quitting. She will email or call school boards with you in the room on speaker. She will copy you on all emails. She will go with you to his house to tell the wife or copy you on all messages or call her on speaker phone with you present.

she will do these things. Or you have to divorce.

she needs to prove her loyalty.

you can do all these things yourself later if she does not.

remember she is scared and unstable right now too. She did not think she would be caught.

I know it’s hard to think of your best friend, wife and mother of your children as your greatest enemy but that is exactly what she is right now.

you can’t trust her at all. At least right now.

she is coming back to argue today. Don’t do it. It will just mess you up more.

don’t tip your hand about the VAR. as much as possible. Don’t mention her friend. Not yet at least. Concentrate on him.

When she is in the house and settled in go search her car for that phone. Do it when she is out of sight.

how to handle her. Keep your statements short and to the point.

“you are caught”

“he is my enemy so when you lye and cover for him that means you are my enemy too”

“it means you love him and you don’t love me”

“Do you think you are really going to keep that job?”

“you need to think about what you want” I love you but I can’t be with someone who lies to me or loves another man”

“you are all in or all out”

“you cannot have any secrets between you two anymore or I can never trust you”

there is nothing else to talk about until she submits to 100% of your demands.

then you still don’t talk until she does all the things everyone has been telling you that needs to be done. Including ending his career and marriage.

don’t have sex with her under any circumstances until you talk to a lawyer. It can be seen as forgiveness by some courts.

she needs the std test. She needs to feel dirty when she takes it.

you need to do the dna test in front of her. She needs to feel how evil her actions where. How much danger she put the kids in.

she needs to write the complete timeline. She needs to write everything down in an email and send it to you so you have a record. She needs to see written in front of her how evil she was and know you’re going to read it. She needs to feel the disgust. And she cannot hold on to any secrets.

I would write everything down before you speak to her so you can stay on track and focused.

dont let her get you off track.

let’s say you do want to save this marriage. You probably should not honestly. The advise on these forums are harsh for a reason.

you will always think about this. It will always be there. 10 years 20 years from now you will always think about this.

not never goes away.


----------



## Megaforce

BoSlander said:


> @Tdbo That is fascinating. Do you ever check internal communications on these cheaters? Reason I ask is because, in my case, my XW and her ex OM (he dumped her as soon as he found out I was onto him,) at one point, went off grid and were only communicating via Google Docs and work email.
> 
> Furthermore, since you have privileged information, if someone were to have a school employee husband/wife that he/she suspects is also “off grid” and carrying on the adultery solely in the school, is there anything they can do to find out if that is the case? Is there someone they can contact?
> 
> I’d heard someone say to try to contact the security guards or janitors AFTER school, but I’m not sure if that is a smart idea.


These workplace affairs can be hell to discover. I read that the vast majority of cheating remains undiscovered forever. I think we get a somewhat skewed view on these sites because folks come here having already found out, or at least suspecting. God only knows how prevalent it really is.
In the past 16 years, many, many people who I never suspected of being victims of cheating, have disclosed having experienced it to me.
Same with paternity fraud. I read that a study done in Canada, among just the general public, not exclusive to couples touched by infidelity, showed that about one in ten guys was, unknowingly, raising a child that he had not biologically fathered. Imagine if the study had been confined to only couples where the wife was known to have cheated.
Not sure of the reliability of the study, as it seems kind of unbelievable. It would mean that if you were at a party with 100 married guys, 10 of them would not really know.


----------



## Sparky282

Also you will always sleep with one eye open. You will always wonder what she is doing when she is not with you.

also her. She may want to save this marriage now but what about the long term. She will have a hard time living with the consequences.

she will always have to be accountable for where she is and who she is with.

she will never have male friends again.

she will never work late.

her devices and social media will always be open and her use of them will be limited.

she will have to walk on egg shells for a long time and even a little bit forever.

she won’t be able to keep that up for the long term.

your both scared right now.

honestly you just need to move forward. Maybe you can try again but not until you are completed in writing legally protected.

that might mean divorce and she can try to win you back and date again while you keep your options open.

but honestly the best thing for your long term healing is to move on as quickly as possible and keep your co parenting over text.

listen to the advise on here. They are not wrong.

im so sorry and my heart breaks for you.

I wish you the best of luck.


----------



## Max.HeadRoom

Not sure if this is legal where u are but it is in NY, here u can record any conversation that you are part of. It’s call single party consent. Check were u live. I would carry the var and have it on whenever you are with ur wife in case she call the police on you with made up crap to make you the bad guy


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Hosed89 said:


> Not sure if I made this clear either, but it sure sounds like my wife's old fat boyfriend dumped her.
> Not sure why this seems so important to me, but it does.


 They unknowingly told you they were going to do this in this message:




Hosed89 said:


> At one point he told her worst case scenario they would have to lay low for a while and could pick up again later and my wife said OK.


----------



## Gabriel

Hosed89 said:


> Not sure if I made this clear either, but it sure sounds like my wife's old fat boyfriend dumped her.
> 
> Not sure why this seems so important to me, but it does.


It matters because now is when your wife will put on the real show to try to keep you. She'll eventually admit to more, beg for forgiveness, produce an amazing amount of crocodile tears.

Only because he dumped her. Remember when she does this, that she'd still be banging him if he hadn't.

She is a lying cheater with no moral character. Sorry.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

Tdbo said:


> Hosed, saw and responded to your message. Hope it was of some help.
> Even though the VAR cannot be used for anything in a legal proceeding and could potentially be illegal, I'd keep it going (as long as you can do so discreetly) and DO NOT DISCLOSE that you have one there or disclose where you are getting the info from. Trickle just enough general information to let her know that you are on to her, but not the specialized knowledge that you have garnered from the VAR. If she presses, her that you have a source inside the school. That will make her paranoid AF, and perhaps she will slip up.
> Definitely implement the 180. That is to help you emotionally detach, and make her experience such.
> IF she comes back to the house, move her out of the master and secure the room, at least until such time as she has had a full battery of STD testing. Swab the kids in front of her. Deploy VAR's throughout the house.
> She needs to experience and feel consequences. You will get nowhere until you harsh her buzz and she breaks out of her affair delusions.


If the building has the amount of security cams that most secondary have, there is also the power of the Public Records Request for the cams that record the area used for the affair. Since it was after hours and likely not a lot of student traffic it would be an easy request for the before/after school footage of the suspected dates that align with the VAR.

While a VAR is the quiet conviction to move forward without disclosure as it is illegal to produce as formal evidence, video is a powerful tool in any formal investigation.

The efficient part is the entire administration chain (and a district lawyer) will want to review before turning over to the requestor.

I've seen admin resignations forced out of discovery from the results of the initial PRR request alone.


----------



## Tdbo

BoSlander said:


> @Tdbo That is fascinating. Do you ever check internal communications on these cheaters? Reason I ask is because, in my case, my XW and her ex OM (he dumped her as soon as he found out I was onto him,) at one point, went off grid and were only communicating via Google Docs and work email.
> 
> Furthermore, since you have privileged information, if someone were to have a school employee husband/wife that he/she suspects is also “off grid” and carrying on the adultery solely in the school, is there anything they can do to find out if that is the case? Is there someone they can contact?
> 
> I’d heard someone say to try to contact the security guards or janitors AFTER school, but I’m not sure if that is a smart idea.


In the case that I referenced, we were able to check e mail because it was our system and our devices that were used. All school employees were aware that the district reserves the right to do that, as well as internet blocking and monitoring.

Cameras were a sticker situation. Towards the end of my career, the union tried to insert a clause that camera footage could not be used in an internal investigation. However, we came back with since the areas monitored were hallways and commons areas, that there was no expectation of privacy. We could not share footage externally. If we were involved in a situation involving law enforcement, we could show them the footage, but if they wanted or needed a copy of the footage, it had to go through central office, which generally stated they needed to subpoena it.

In regards to "Privileged information," obviously we could not give out privileged information. However that's not to say (wink wink) that in the right situation we might not accidentally leave it on a desk and be summonsed out of the office, or try to subtly get people in that situation, the info they needed, or at least aim them in the right direction, or give them strategies to do so.

I've worked in inner city, urban, and suburban settings, and have generally found custodians to be generous with information. If one can approach them and subtly inquire, they will tell much. If nothing else, with athletics/extracurriculars going on after hours, many buildings are open until 9-10 PM, 5 or 6 nights a week. If a spouse feels that something is going on that may be nefarious, stop and get some of their spouses favorite fast food, and take it to them. Never met a janitor or security guard in all my years that wouldn't let someone through for the purpose of bringing their spouse dinner. Perfect scenario to be either a loving spouse, or the one that catches their significant other in the act.


----------



## Openminded

Keep in mind that since your parents know, and have been giving you advice, they would very likely have considerable difficulty forgiving your wife if you chose to reconcile. I definitely wouldn’t have been able to forgive had my child decided to reconcile when dealing with a cheating spouse. Thankfully, that wasn’t an option and so we were able to cut the cheater out of our lives and went on our way. If you reconcile and your parents have to see your spouse often, it will be extremely awkward at best. They would always hate what she did to you and they would probably make that clear to you and to her. Cheating destroys many relationships — not just the primary one.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

Tdbo said:


> In the case that I referenced, we were able to check e mail because it was our system and our devices that were used. All school employees were aware that the district reserves the right to do that, as well as internet blocking and monitoring.
> 
> Cameras were a sticker situation. Towards the end of my career, the union tried to insert a clause that camera footage could not be used in an internal investigation. However, we came back with since the areas monitored were hallways and commons areas, that there was no expectation of privacy. We could not share footage externally. If we were involved in a situation involving law enforcement, we could show them the footage, but if they wanted or needed a copy of the footage, it had to go through central office, which generally stated they needed to subpoena it.
> 
> In regards to "Privileged information," obviously we could not give out privileged information. However that's not to say (wink wink) that in the right situation we might not accidentally leave it on a desk and be summonsed out of the office, or try to subtly get people in that situation, the info they needed, or at least aim them in the right direction, or give them strategies to do so.
> 
> I've worked in inner city, urban, and suburban settings, and have generally found custodians to be generous with information. If one can approach them and subtly inquire, they will tell much. If nothing else, with athletics/extracurriculars going on after hours, many buildings are open until 9-10 PM, 5 or 6 nights a week. If a spouse feels that something is going on that may be nefarious, stop and get some of their spouses favorite fast food, and take it to them. Never met a janitor or security guard in all my years that wouldn't let someone through for the purpose of bringing their spouse dinner. Perfect scenario to be either a loving spouse, or the one that catches their significant other in the act.


Each state has different PRR laws for video... where I live they can be used for almost anything as long as faces are blurred. I can't tell you how many HS parking lot footage I've had to sort through for accidents that occurred in them.

Hallways and corridors are common areas and could be requested too (and were by parents), but it needed a reason.

An accusation against an administrator would warrant such.


----------



## Tdbo

Emerging Buddhist said:


> If the building has the amount of security cams that most secondary have, there is also the power of the Public Records Request for the cams that record the area used for the affair. Since it was after hours and likely not a lot of student traffic it would be an easy request for the before/after school footage of the suspected dates that align with the VAR.
> 
> While a VAR is the quiet conviction to move forward without disclosure as it is illegal to produce as formal evidence, video is a powerful tool in any formal investigation.
> 
> The efficient part is the entire administration chain (and a district lawyer) will want to review before turning over to the requestor.
> 
> I've seen admin resignations forced out of discovery from the results of the initial PRR request alone.


I can tell you that in my experience that not many districts are going to give up that video short of a court order. The districts that I have worked for were more than willing to let such a request to go to that level.

However, the mere request for the footage would send central office staff running to view it. That by itself, may very well achieve the desired result.


----------



## sokillme

Hosed89 said:


> I appreciate the link to other stories and the other sites. I've spent some time reading and am more depressed in some ways than I was before.
> 
> Rus, you asked how she knows I'm considering a divorce. I didn't know I was supposed to keep that to myself and some of our exchanges have been very emotional. I thought I was doing pretty good at keeping my stuff close, but guess I should have not said that either? I was really trying to get her to be honest with me. I'd still like that. Basically, I told her she was leaving me no choice except divorce. That happened a few days ago.
> 
> She's coming back today for another round of this drama that seems to go no where.
> 
> I have read about asking for a timeline. I'm thinking that I'm going to ask her for that, make an appointment for the lawyer as soon as I can get one, and pulling the VAR until I can speak to the lawyer. I already have more than enough VAR recordings any way. I do have them saved in a safe place.
> 
> My mom is pushing real hard for me to see a doctor to to get tested and my dad ordered some DNA kit online last night. I can't believe this is my life.
> 
> I'm also trying to process the 180 stuff. Some of it seems easier than others. Is that mostly though to get to reconcile?
> 
> TDBO, I sent you a message, can you check it if you have time? Thanks.


I know it sucks right now but the vast majority of these people recovered and had happy lives. Something is wrong with your wife. I agree with the DNA test for your kids, if you notice in the stories often spouses who act out like this have always been this way. It seems like it's sudden only because it's the first time they have been caught.


----------



## Rus47

Hosed89 said:


> Not sure if I made this clear either, but it sure sounds like my wife's old fat boyfriend dumped her.
> 
> Not sure why this seems so important to me, but it does.


Not important at all. If things were to calm down, they would be at it again in no time. He may be old and fat, but he has something she really really likes a lot.

IMO, having conversations with her about this is pointless. You will never find out anything you don't already know. So IMO discussions ought to be minimal, seeking no information from her and giving nothing but bare minimum regarding your children. You already know she has lied through her teeth about everything, why would you expect that to change?

And the "timeline" stuff is for someone contemplating reconciliation. Your wife is *NOT* reconciliation material. She has proven that over the entire scenario. She has admitted nothing and in fact told you that you were "nuts" and needed to see a shrink. There is no point asking her anything "ask me no questions and I will tell you no lies" is the phrase that comes to mind.

Focus on the attorney, getting the agreements filed and in place, get tested for STDs, let your parents help you. IMO the DNA stuff is also pointless. Not to say that this is your wife's first rodeo, but based on her methodology it doesn't seem like she is experienced being an adulteress. So DNA of the kids IMO just adds some drama you don't need.

Let the attorney(s) guide your way. Be sure the attorney you select has a track record of getting his or her clients quickly out of the mess with minimal damage to their finances. That means speed is your friend. The faster the process moves the fewer billable hours so the lower the cost,

Eventually, maybe a year from now you will be on the other side of the trauma. Your xww will be someone you once knew. The best revenge is a life lived well, you don't need bad baggage to weigh you down. See @Vaughan story.


----------



## Tdbo

[


----------



## Beach123

Don’t allow her to come home. Have your kids come home.
Expose the OM to his wife. That puts another person imposing some sort of consequence on them/their cheating.

I would file for divorce. She lies so easily…that’s something I can’t live with. When you can’t trust - there is no love. She’s not sorry she did it - she’s only sorry she got caught. She’s also still protecting the affair - so there is nothing to save - she has ruined the chance of the marriage ever being good again.

have the kids come home. Have her stay away. File for divorce. You can’t consider reconciling when she won’t get honest and doesn’t intend to change to help the marriage.

Ask your parents to help for a while. You need to settle in to a solid routine with your kids.


----------



## Tdbo

Rus47 said:


> Not important at all. If things were to calm down, they would be at it again in no time. He may be old and fat, but he has something she really really likes a lot.



Or, does he have something that she really needs a lot?
Given that this guy is in a position of authority over her at work, this story has some potential nuances to it that could be interesting. These nuances could provide the OP with some real interesting scenarios he may need to contemplate, as well as options to explore.
OP is on top of it, is actually out ahead of the curve, and realizes that more than likely, wife needs to go curbside.
He's got this.


----------



## BoSlander

Tdbo said:


> Or, does he have something that she really needs a lot?
> Given that this guy is in a position of authority over her at work, this story has some potential nuances to it that could be interesting. These nuances could provide the OP with some real interesting scenarios he may need to contemplate, as well as options to explore.
> OP is on top of it, is actually out ahead of the curve, and realizes that more than likely, wife needs to go curbside.
> He's got this.


For what it’s worth, in my XW’s case, her mother was 15 years younger than her father, and I did notice that she’s always had a wandering eye for men (surprise mothersucking surprise!!) way older than her. In fact, the guy she last cheated on me with was in his 50s, fat, balding and married. A George Constanza lookalike.

Worst of all, like I said in the past, she was doing things to him, sexually speaking, that were almost porn-star grade.

This is why I believe the OP ought to not come back here until he’s gathered his wits because the reality of what potentially went on is most likely going to get him to lose more sleep and completely shut down his appetite.

Let him talk to his lawyer, develop a plan and then come back here to give us an update.


----------



## Rus47

Hosed89 said:


> Rus, you asked how she knows I'm considering a divorce. I didn't know I was supposed to keep that to myself and some of our exchanges have been very emotional. I thought I was doing pretty good at keeping my stuff close, but *guess I should have not said that either?* *I was really trying to get her to be honest with me. I'd still like that.* Basically, I told her she was leaving me no choice except divorce. That happened a few days ago.
> 
> *She's coming back today for another round of this drama that seems to go no where.*


No you should have said nothing about your plans. Keep her guessing what you plan, don't tell her what they are.
Trying to get her to be honest is obviously impossible. There isn't an honest bone in her body. Don't waste your time.

I am guessing that as this is written you are into another round of drama with her since she came back today. And of course it will go nowhere. There isn't anything to work with. She is gone. The woman you thought you married, the mother of your children, no longer exists. She is gone. I am sorry, but you just have to accept that. She has been replaced by a deviant eager to be railed in her workplace by a much older serial womanizer. He has skills that she now craves. Despite his having supposedly "dumped" her, she will be chasing him at every opportunity.



Hosed89 said:


> I'm thinking that I'm going to ask her for that,* make an appointment for the lawyer as soon as I can get one, and pulling the VAR until I can speak to the lawyer.*


Forget the time line. Yes, see the attorney and pull the VAR


----------



## Evinrude58

A couple if things:

you are wishing and attempting to get something from your wife: truth.
You are not ever going to get it. Ever. She might give you part of it once she sees what you already know……but it will only be something that she gives in order to save herself or get something in return, etc. she’s a liar. A liar that would be glad to make you doubt your own sanity and steal your own agency about being married to a cheater and being cuckolded. Never ever expect or even ask for truth from a liar. They are by definition incapable of truth.

secondly, even if her AP “dumped” her which is only for appearances and self preservation (it’s obvious this guy thinks Only of himself 24/7), you still have a wife that has given her emotions to another man and has zero true feelings of romantic love for you (if she ever did have them). The feelings she has of wanting to be with that guy sexually—- those feelings will never again return to be directed at you—- even if she wishes those feelings would.

Lastly, don’t dare let her know EVER about the VAR, I’d get them out of wherever they are in case she starts looking for it, and although they can’t be used in court, the recordings would be very useful to be played for the affair partner’s wife when the time is right.

Divorce her fast. One can’t have a relationship with this kind of person your wife is. She is a lying, unremorseful cheater who has no character, no empathy for your feelings or thr AP’s wife, and no love for you except for the security you offer.

Use whatever means necessary to prevent yourself from financing her lifestyle while she looks for the next guy.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

I have had to step back and chill for a while. Old memories can still be strong memories at times and I want to refrain from allowing my emotions from clouding my two cents.You story is somewhat similar to mine.

Do not allow her back into your home as you need time to think without interference. Before you act always consult your legal counsel. No matter how strong you are infidelity is like a sledgehammer to your heart. Do your best to react logically not emotionally (yea easier said than done).

Now, I was able to reconcile, as I had been married 29 years when my wife decided to step out with a POSOM . So never say never. However, my FWW came clean 100%. If reconciling is an option keep it close to your vest like a poker hand. Your wife needs to experience fear and shame. If you go R you must have the truth. My wife fortunately realized what she had out at risk as our two adult children shunnned her for a while. Her siblings gave her hell, too, as did my late MIL.

What you must be on guard for is trickle truth, but with what you have gleaned from the VAR, you have a head start on her.

Read and implement the 180. It is for you. Sort of a “fake it till you make it” tool, but highly effective when she see you indifferent to her.

You mentioned bourbon 🥃! Keep a light hand on this. It can get out of control in a situation such as you find yourself in. I was good for 1/2 bottle of Woodford nightly in the days after Dday. Wasn’t pretty as I got pretty angry.

Be 100% present for your children. They sense more than you realize.

Minimize your stress by hitting the gym, eating healthy.

Where you are at is temporary not permanent. Do not forget this. This too shall pass. Left foot right foot breathe repeat.

You got this.


----------



## *Deidre*

Don’t be surprised if she claims that she felt “forced” and she wants you to comfort her because she was a “victim.” When wayward spouses are backed into a corner, they might say anything. You’re in a vulnerable, hurt and confused state of mind so I could see her playing the victim of this older guy who preys on all the women at work, and asking you to stay with her. 

She was having an affair and she consented. She wasn’t a victim - but she doesn’t know what you know.😌 So, don’t be surprised if she claims to be a victim.


----------



## oldshirt

Be smart and secretly gather info, but always appear to be dumb and that you know nothing.

then the hardest part here is do NOTHING until you can consult with an attorney and then follow attorneys instructions to the latter.

anything that you feel is the right thing to do will actually be the wrong thing and things that will often help you the most will feel wrong.

Do what the attorney says and do not do what he/she says not to do.

Only do things on the guidance and direction of the attorney. Don’t freelance or try to do anything on your own.

Hopefully you will only experience this once in your life time. But your attorney has been to law school and deals with cases just like this day in and day out all day every day for many years.

Follow his/her advise and direction.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Hosed89 said:


> Not sure if I made this clear either, but it sure sounds like my wife's old fat boyfriend dumped her.


Either that, or they've gone underground/taken a hiatus in their activities until the coast is clear.


----------



## oldshirt

Hosed89 said:


> Not sure if I made this clear either, but it sure sounds like my wife's old fat boyfriend dumped her.
> 
> Not sure why this seems so important to me, but it does.


There are some important things to note here. 

The quickest way to get another man to split is to make the WW a single woman. OM are in it for the quick and easy poon without all the other stuff that goes along with an actual relationship.

if she becomes single and starts wanting to go on proper dates and to get with her friends and family and wants him to go to Puppypalooza with her and her corgi an OM is going to bow out 9 times out of 10.

if he himself is married, he will go into hiding and start getting prepared to deal with the Thunder that is going to come down on his own marriage.

HOWEVER, he is still very much in the game for a hook up if they are both able to sneak away for a shag. He hasn’t dumped her in the classic sense.

if you have any doubt of that, just get your hands on her phones and txt him pretending to be her and tell him your dying for one last bang and promise to do that thing he likes and then see his reply.

As someone said above, he’s not gone, he’s just gone underground.


----------



## Hosed89

Deidre, yes, my parents want me to divorce. 

My mother could also never be cordial to her again even if we were to try and work through it at this point. I hadn't thought about that one. It would be awkward.

Anyway, she came over today. Same crap different day. She maintains there is nothing else to tell me, she's sorry for the way it looks. If I loved her, I'd believe her. She'll do anything to make it right, etc.

Then she was crying telling me how exhausted she is and asked if she could lay down and take a nap. She invited me to hold her, I declined. I told her she could take a nap but I still wanted her to stay with her parents for now. She left a trail of her clothes on the way to the bedroom. I did not follow.

I took advantage of her nap time to snoop through her purse. I didn't find anything in it.

However, I did pull the VAR and decided to snoop through her vehicle. I didn't find anything in there either. I have listened to the VAR. There is not much new on it. It is much harder to get the whole story only getting one side of the conversation. 

She is back at her parents again this evening.

I'm goping to try ignoring her except for the kids until I can speak to a lawyer.


----------



## ShatteredKat

Hosed89

No Longer advised you to go lightly on the "Woodford" (good stuff btw!) as it will lower your inhibitions which can lead to you saying or doing something you should not. 

and

The Ethanol will make your sadness and depression feel worse

also

_"She's coming back today for another round of this drama that seems to go no where."_

Read the 180 and stick to it - "drama" will be of no help in sorting out yourself and figuring out your path forward. Take your time. It will eventually become more clear on which way to move your life forward.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Hosed89 said:


> Deidre, yes, my parents want me to divorce.
> 
> My mother could also never be cordial to her again even if we were to try and work through it at this point. I hadn't thought about that one. It would be awkward.
> 
> Anyway, she came over today. Same crap different day. She maintains there is nothing else to tell me, she's sorry for the way it looks. If I loved her, I'd believe her. She'll do anything to make it right, etc.
> 
> Then she was crying telling me how exhausted she is and asked if she could lay down and take a nap. She invited me to hold her, I declined. I told her she could take a nap but I still wanted her to stay with her parents for now. She left a trail of her clothes on the way to the bedroom. I did not follow.
> 
> I took advantage of her nap time to snoop through her purse. I didn't find anything in it.
> 
> However, I did pull the VAR and decided to snoop through her vehicle. I didn't find anything in there either. I have listened to the VAR. There is not much new on it. It is much harder to get the whole story only getting one side of the conversation.
> 
> She is back at her parents again this evening.
> 
> I'm goping to try ignoring her except for the kids until I can speak to a lawyer.


Good update, it sounds like you’re doing well. The love bombing and tears and seductions will continue, trying different tactics, ect. Don’t fall for it. She’s only trying to save her ass. She doesn’t care two hoots for you except as a means to an end.

Continue the 180 and disengage, disengage, disengage. Protect your heart, the days to come will be hard. When she finds out you’re really really serious, it will get much worse. Animal caught in a cage kind of worse.

I would keep those VARs active, if for intelligence gathering if nothing else. I mean, you can’t believe her so protect yourself with intelligence. Plus you need them everywhere you are near her to guard again false domestic violence charges.

See the lawyer, follow their advice. You’re doing great.


----------



## Openminded

Cheaters are especially good at sexually manipulating their husbands into not divorcing them. She’s not surprisingly already started trying so you’ll need to always be prepared for that possibility when you’re alone with her.


----------



## *Deidre*

Hosed89 said:


> Deidre, yes, my parents want me to divorce.
> 
> My mother could also never be cordial to her again even if we were to try and work through it at this point. I hadn't thought about that one. It would be awkward.
> 
> Anyway, she came over today. Same crap different day. She maintains there is nothing else to tell me, she's sorry for the way it looks. If I loved her, I'd believe her. She'll do anything to make it right, etc.
> 
> Then she was crying telling me how exhausted she is and asked if she could lay down and take a nap. She invited me to hold her, I declined. I told her she could take a nap but I still wanted her to stay with her parents for now. She left a trail of her clothes on the way to the bedroom. I did not follow.
> 
> I took advantage of her nap time to snoop through her purse. I didn't find anything in it.
> 
> However, I did pull the VAR and decided to snoop through her vehicle. I didn't find anything in there either. I have listened to the VAR. There is not much new on it. It is much harder to get the whole story only getting one side of the conversation.
> 
> She is back at her parents again this evening.
> 
> I'm goping to try ignoring her except for the kids until I can speak to a lawyer.


“She’s sorry for the way it looks.” 

I think it’s interesting that she’s still playing this like she didn’t have an affair, because she doesn’t know what you know.

I think she’s using tears and sex to get you to let this go. 

You’re probably the first story on here that I’ve read, where parents have stepped in to help navigate the situation. It seems like too many betrayed spouses are left to go it alone, and I know my parents would be doing exactly like yours if my husband was cheating.

I think you know what to do, but you’re remembering the woman you married and wondering what happened. Most likely, your wife has been drifting away and this guy was there. It could have been any guy, really. Affairs don’t happen out of nowhere but your wife is to blame, not you.

Stay strong.🙏


----------



## Openminded

What has she told her parents?


----------



## Hosed89

Openinded, I don't know if she has told her parents the truth. I suspect she has not.

Her parents say I'm over reacting and that I should believe her. But they have not listened to the VAR.

I do think her mom would cover for her if she felt she had to. I could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me either way.

Based on what I have heard from the VAR recordings. I just can't answer this one for sure one way or the other.


----------



## Openminded

Hosed89 said:


> Openinded, I don't know if she has told her parents the truth. I suspect she has not.
> 
> Her parents say I'm over reacting and that I should believe her. But they have not listened to the VAR.
> 
> I do think her mom would cover for her if she felt she had to. I could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me either way.
> 
> Based on what I have heard from the VAR recordings. I just can't answer this one for sure one way or the other.


Parents almost always side with their guilty child (not that I think she’s told them the truth and probably won’t) — no matter how close they are with their child’s spouse. I’ve seen that happen many times. She has lost your parents by her actions and you will very likely lose hers as well (assuming you care about hers, of course — not everyone cares about losing in-laws). Siblings (if there are any) take sides as well. IOW, the betrayed spouse rarely gets support from the cheater’s family so better not to expect any and be pleasantly surprised if there is.


----------



## Beach123

See a lawyer. Find out what it takes to get the divorce started.
Your wife is in full denial/no remorse mode. She is also looking for ways to manipulate you. Good job denying her.

don’t be around her alone. She’s just evil and wants you to look the other way. Stay strong.


----------



## jsmart

Your WW is not remorseful or even regretful. There is nothing that you can work R with. Having your family hate her is going to make things hard. 

Personally I think you should have already exposed them at their job and to his wife. Most likely she will be spoken to and maybe have something in her file but I doubt she will lose her job. The OM will very likely be fired because he’s an administrator. Losing his job and facing his wife’s wrath is a just punishment. This guy knows that she has young children at home yet he pursues her. Now your kids are very likely going to have a broken home because of them.

Lastly, it has been over 3 weeks and yet you haven’t engages a lawyer. You done so much right but delaying getting her served, is what is having her stick so hard to this guy. She is going to see him as the dynamic guy who goes after what he wants and you’re the guy who just talks.

A shock and awe campaign of exposing at work, exposing to his wife, revealing the details to her parents, having her served at work, would be the consequences she needs to wake up. Right now she’s still emotionally his girl. Their breakup is just until the smoke clears. He’s going to want more of that young thing. Remember, you can stop the divorce if she turns it around and is fighting for you but that won’t happen without you breaking her and also breaking him.


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## Wolfman1968

deleted post. answered my own question upon re-reading OP note.


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## Wolfman1968

deleted post


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## Jimi007

After your attorney consultation...

Go Scorched Earth...

Do it just for yourself


----------



## Mr.Married

Don’t fall into the sex trap ….. it’s a bear trap in disguise !!!!!

Remember what I said: At your weakest moment you will think about reconciliation…. Don’t do it !!!!


----------



## BoSlander

*Deidre* said:


> Most likely, your wife has been drifting away and this guy was there. It could have been any guy, really.


This is one thing I will never understand... wives "drifting away" from marriages in silence. Or hiding their displeasure with the way things are going behind euphemisms that most men will never fully understand. 

This is why I strongly believe children ought to learn, from an early age, how to communicate effectively across genders.


----------



## BoSlander

jsmart said:


> Most likely she will be spoken to and maybe have something in her file but I doubt she will lose her job. The OM will very likely be fired because he’s an administrator.


Oh, she's going to be fired too. Most likely, upon discovery, the district will order a full investigation and those recordings will be reviewed. Nowadays, schools have zero tolerance with this stuff. 

Am I right @Tdbo?


----------



## BoSlander

@Hosed89 If reconciliation is in your mind... do what many do, divorce, then date your wife and, if the spark is relit, remarry her.

With the understanding that the old marriage is done, toasted, gone forever.


----------



## Megaforce

jsmart said:


> Your WW is not remorseful or even regretful. There is nothing that you can work R with. Having your family hate her is going to make things hard.
> 
> Personally I think you should have already exposed them at their job and to his wife. Most likely she will be spoken to and maybe have something in her file but I doubt she will lose her job. The OM will very likely be fired because he’s an administrator. Losing his job and facing his wife’s wrath is a just punishment. This guy knows that she has young children at home yet he pursues her. Now your kids are very likely going to have a broken home because of them.
> 
> Lastly, it has been over 3 weeks and yet you haven’t engages a lawyer. You done so much right but delaying getting her served, is what is having her stick so hard to this guy. She is going to see him as the dynamic guy who goes after what he wants and you’re the guy who just talks.
> 
> A shock and awe campaign of exposing at work, exposing to his wife, revealing the details to her parents, having her served at work, would be the consequences she needs to wake up. Right now she’s still emotionally his girl. Their breakup is just until the smoke clears. He’s going to want more of that young thing. Remember, you can stop the divorce if she turns it around and is fighting for you but that won’t happen without you breaking her and also breaking him.


Pretty sure it does not matter if she is " his girl" or " wakes up" etc. OP is divorcing. And, it is inadvisable for him to ever consider staying married to such a person like his wife, IMO.


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## Evinrude58

You cannot see an attorney fast enough. You can’t start the process fast enough.
You’re seeing a woman who is trying to save her butt. Cares zero for you or her conscience would drive her to come clean. She not only hasn’t, she’s actively trying to manipulate you.

You need to realize the woman you thought you married doesn’t exist now, may never have. Abd when she is served with divorce papers, you won’t even recognize how she will react once she discovers the jig is up. She will very likely try to take half your retirement, make you buy her out of your home, take half the savings, etc. This is why you need a GOOD attorney, why you should do this as fast as legally possible, and why you should be using the leverage of what you know and her feelings for her AP and therefore fear of him Losing his job and marriage against her in this divorce.

Tour wife has totally betrayed you and you need to treat her like the person she is, not the person you wish she was.

Stop procrastinating and find an attorney. Not only that, find out who the other best ones are and get a free consultation which will prevent her from using them against you.

time is important here. You’re wasting it.


----------



## Rus47

Hosed89 said:


> Openinded, I don't know if she has told her parents the truth. I suspect she has not.
> 
> Her parents say I'm over reacting and that I should believe her. But they have not listened to the VAR.
> 
> I do think her mom would cover for her if she felt she had to. I could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me either way.
> 
> Based on what I have heard from the VAR recordings. I just can't answer this one for sure one way or the other.


Not unexpected that her parents side with her. Blood is thicker than water. There is no point in having any conversations with them or her about anything beyond your children. Speaking of which, have you seen your children since this whole thing blew up? If not, is she/they keeping them from you? This should not be. That is why the filings need to begin sooner rather than later to formalize custody/separation/finance/support arrangements. You sure don't want HER to get an attorney before you get one on board.

I hope you will get with an attorney like yesterday. You will have to give him/her a retainer which will hurt some more. But as others say, divorce is expensive because it is worth the cost. Unfortunately this is a terrible time of year to have to be going through this stuff. In the meantime, the less interaction you have with your WW the better for you. One thought I had, is it possible for your mother to be present whenever your WW is at your house? That would reduce the possibilities for false DV charge.


----------



## Rus47

jsmart said:


> *Lastly, it has been over 3 weeks and yet you haven’t engages a lawyer*. You done so much right but delaying getting her served, is what is having her stick so hard to this guy.


This! I didn't realize it has been that long. The paperwork should have already been filed! She should have been served no more than a week after you found out. It takes very little time for an attorney's paralegal to fill in the blanks on standard separation agreement, support agreement, asset division agreement. A lot of it gets negotiated during the procedure. 

GET THIS GOING ASAP! Absent that, everything else is just wasted motion and effort.


----------



## Rus47

Evinrude58 said:


> You cannot see an attorney fast enough. You can’t start the process fast enough.


Exactly! Every day you delay puts you in greater peril! I surely hope she hasn't already retained an attorney on advice of her AP and/or her parents.


----------



## Tdbo

BoSlander said:


> Oh, she's going to be fired too. Most likely, upon discovery, the district will order a full investigation and those recordings will be reviewed. Nowadays, schools have zero tolerance with this stuff.
> 
> Am I right @Tdbo?


Wish I could say you were Bo, but I doubt it.
The odds of her getting fired depend on 2 variables: the conservative nature of the community and the BOE, and the strength of the union.
The more conservative the community and the BOE is, the greater the chance the teacher gets fired.
The stronger the union is, the less chance she has of getting fired.
Consider both the items I just listed as a sliding scale.
To show you how it can work, let's go back to the example I used earlier in the thread.
After a lengthy investigation, in which 3 administrators put in multiple hours (I spent over 40.) We had them dead to rights. Hell, they even confessed when we laid out the evidence.
What happened to them? Absolutely squat. The Superintendent basically did everything he could to protect them. He "Understood", as he had cheated on his first wife with the woman who is now his second.
However, internally, people were pissed. The pressure was building. So he had to do something.
He called in a marker with a friend that was a Super about 15 miles away. Just so happened they needed a head football coach, and a teacher that fit his credentials. Guess who got the job WITH A SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLAR PAY RAISE? However, he did end up divorced.
The secretary in question was assigned to CO. Even though the length of her contracted days increased, she ended up with a NET PAY RAISE. However, she did end up divorced.
Yes, the two of them did end up getting married. While they are still married (last I heard) they did NOT live happily ever after.
In regards to the Administrator, that's a mixed bag. That depends on the mores of the community and how well connected they are. I've seen them summarily dismissed. I've seen lateral reassignments. I've also seen them promoted up the chain, to get them out of the way. Generally if it is a clear cut abuse of position, they are canned, or quit before termination proceedings can begin. Administration generally does not have a union, and thus the protections afforded from that. If a given situation is generally messy and has potential to become litigious, more than likely they are either terminated, resign, or sometimes a side deal is cobbled out to save embarrassment/money for the district, and face for the perpetrator. Many times in these situations, the motivation is to deal with things on the QT, and avoid a PR debacle.
There are too many variables in these circumstances to say that these people just automatically get canned. It just depends on the details of the situation, PR, money, politics, and the proverbial lay of the land.


----------



## Tdbo

Rus47 said:


> This! I didn't realize it has been that long. The paperwork should have already been filed! She should have been served no more than a week after you found out. It takes very little time for an attorney's paralegal to fill in the blanks on standard separation agreement, support agreement, asset division agreement. A lot of it gets negotiated during the procedure.
> 
> GET THIS GOING ASAP! Absent that, everything else is just wasted motion and effort.


I'm just going to say this (and I really don't care if it is popular or not) because *things like this are why original posters leave threads and never come back.*
This guy has got things under control.
He has a plan, he has his head on straight.
He has exceptionally strong support from his family, who are actively assisting him.
He is ahead of the curve both from an action and mental perspective, and he realizes that his marriage is essentially done, and she needs to go.
He is working a solid action plan at an appropriate pace and is doing fine.
He will come out on top because of his inner strength and how he garners and utilizes resources available to him,* not because of needless ***jabber and noise.*
Give the guy what he needs when he asks for it.
He might actually share the outcome of it, if he is not driven off.
He's got this. He really does.


----------



## Gabriel

Hosed89 said:


> Deidre, yes, my parents want me to divorce.
> 
> My mother could also never be cordial to her again even if we were to try and work through it at this point. I hadn't thought about that one. It would be awkward.
> 
> Anyway, she came over today. Same crap different day. She maintains there is nothing else to tell me, she's sorry for the way it looks. If I loved her, I'd believe her. She'll do anything to make it right, etc.
> 
> Then she was crying telling me how exhausted she is and asked if she could lay down and take a nap. She invited me to hold her, I declined. I told her she could take a nap but I still wanted her to stay with her parents for now. She left a trail of her clothes on the way to the bedroom. I did not follow.
> 
> I took advantage of her nap time to snoop through her purse. I didn't find anything in it.
> 
> However, I did pull the VAR and decided to snoop through her vehicle. I didn't find anything in there either. I have listened to the VAR. There is not much new on it. It is much harder to get the whole story only getting one side of the conversation.
> 
> She is back at her parents again this evening.
> 
> I'm goping to try ignoring her except for the kids until I can speak to a lawyer.


Excellent job.

My take, she is scared you know more than you are letting on. And she's trying to throw you off your scent. 

It seems you have the proof you need. Hanging on to it for the right moment is wise. When is that moment? Have you decided when you'll do that?


----------



## Vaughan

I would have video recording any time she is near you. If she decides you are going to divorce her and she has nothing to lose, one false domestic violence accusation removes you from the house, a restraining order is automatic and could also apply to your children, and if it stuck would impact your ability to rent and future employment. Cheap insurance. A VAR saved me, video would have been much better.


----------



## Gabriel

BoSlander said:


> Oh, she's going to be fired too. Most likely, upon discovery, the district will order a full investigation and those recordings will be reviewed. Nowadays, schools have zero tolerance with this stuff.
> 
> Am I right @Tdbo?


I am on the "don't expose at work" team. What good will that do, other than to wield punishment that will only hurt his finances?

Considering the guy has done this before, and will likely do it again, a certain promise to him personally would likely do the trick. I'd tell him you have proof that he's used his position to bed married coworkers and that when he least expects it, you can use that proof to end his job, so he better find another place to work. Party's over, pal.

But STBX should keep her job, especially if he's gone. OP, you need her income to stay intact.


----------



## Taxman

It is terrible knowing the truth, having the evidence, and being unable to release it at this time, as it would impair your case. When your VAR evidence is released, it will at once make your case, and devastate your ex. BTDT. End of the day, you have everything you need, it is just a matter of timing. Plus, please, do not allow her to have naps in your home. That could lead to charges. Make damn sure the VAR and your phone are recording every time she is in your presence. When it becomes apparent that she is going to lose it all, she will counter with some sort of accusation. Do not give her that opportunity.


----------



## Tdbo

Gabriel said:


> I am on the "don't expose at work" team. What good will that do, other than to wield punishment that will only hurt his finances?
> 
> Considering the guy has done this before, and will likely do it again, a certain promise to him personally would likely do the trick. I'd tell him you have proof that he's used his position to bed married coworkers and that when he least expects it, you can use that proof to end his job, so he better find another place to work. Party's over, pal.
> 
> But STBX should keep her job, especially if he's gone. OP, you need her income to stay intact.


I wouldn't worry too much about her losing her job.
The odds of that happening are slim to none, even if he went "Scorched Earth."
The "Weebl with the bad rug" she hooked up with would probably take the brunt of it.
With the right "Word salad," she could probably have him by the short hairs.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Gabriel said:


> I am on the "don't expose at work" team. What good will that do, other than to wield punishment that will only hurt his finances?
> 
> Considering the guy has done this before, and will likely do it again, a certain promise to him personally would likely do the trick. I'd tell him you have proof that he's used his position to bed married coworkers and that when he least expects it, you can use that proof to end his job, so he better find another place to work. Party's over, pal.
> 
> But STBX should keep her job, especially if he's gone. OP, you need her income to stay intact.


Absolutely disagree and the think BoSlander is right. Expose this to the school district. Cheaters and other people of low character are like ****-roaches. They thrive where there is shade and the light does not shine. Bring it all into the light, let them wallow in the cess-pool they created and live with the consequences. The other betrayed spouse needs to be informed. Their employer needs to be informed and I personally would threaten to sue the school district. I would go nuclear.


----------



## Gabriel

BootsAndJeans said:


> Absolutely disagree and the think BoSlander is right. Expose this to the school district. Cheaters and other people of low character are like ****-roaches. They thrive where there is shade and the light does not shine. Bring it all into the light, let them wallow in the cess-pool they created and live with the consequences. The other betrayed spouse needs to be informed. Their employer needs to be informed and I personally would threaten to sue the school district. I would go nuclear.
> 
> View attachment 94072


Why though? For punishment? OP needs to think about how HIS life will be best served. 

Also, most employers aren't going to care. They want to stay out of these things. Or just have a private convo and keep it quiet. Nobody wants negative gossip. Not to mention, him blowing this up at their school will only make for a rougher co-parenting situation.

Agree to disagree I guess.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Gabriel said:


> Why though? For punishment? OP needs to think about how HIS life will be best served.
> 
> Also, most employers aren't going to care. They want to stay out of these things. Or just have a private convo and keep it quiet. Nobody wants negative gossip. Not to mention, him blowing this up at their school will only make for a rougher co-parenting situation.
> 
> Agree to disagree I guess.


Because without exposure, his STBXW will frame the narrative, it is what trash does.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

BootsAndJeans said:


> Absolutely disagree and the think BoSlander is right. Expose this to the school district. Cheaters and other people of low character are like ****-roaches. They thrive where there is shade and the light does not shine. Bring it all into the light, let them wallow in the cess-pool they created and live with the consequences. The other betrayed spouse needs to be informed. Their employer needs to be informed and I personally would threaten to sue the school district. I would go nuclear.
> 
> View attachment 94072


I agree with you _conditionally_

OP needs to protect himself during divorce. Blowing things up prematurely could hurt him if she's unemployed or starts to contest every darn thing out of spite.

So yes, expose expose expose, but do it strategically.

If they were going to R then no need to wait. blow it up yesterday.


----------



## BoSlander

BootsAndJeans said:


> Because without exposure, his STBXW will frame the narrative, it is what trash does.


Which is what she's trying to do already. She's already keeping her parents in the dark. She's already re-writing the marriage history so that her monumental f#ck-up is given a logical sequence of events.

It surely couldn't have been her! She must have been driven to make such a drastic decision... HE was a bad husband.

How many times have we seen and heard this scripted jibber-jabber?


----------



## Gabriel

BootsAndJeans said:


> Because without exposure, his STBXW will frame the narrative, it is what trash does.


This is why you blow it up in other places. Her family, their friends. Let her suffer there. Framing the narrative at HER work doesn't matter at all. He doesn't go into her office or spend time there. He won't even know what is said. The ONLY benefit to exposing at work is to punish the OM. That is the only positive outcome possible, and he can do that in other ways. Gotta think critically and not emotionally.


----------



## TAMAT

Mr.Married said:


> Don’t fall into the sex trap ….. it’s a bear trap in disguise !!!!!
> 
> Remember what I said: At your weakest moment you will think about reconciliation…. Don’t do it !!!!


I will add to Mr.Married post that you do not know who this OM had sex with and each person he had sex with could have had an STD. Do not put your health at risk.


----------



## Evinrude58

Since he is an administrator, it will indeed mess him up. In the system, they say there’s 2 things that will get a teacher fired—- romance and finance. He checks the box on romance. He can’t bed people he’s supervising (if he is), or he is screwed. Even if he’s not, the school system frowns on infidelity amongst coworkers and likely has a morals clause in the contract.

when the case is settled, I’d absolutely take the proof to the superintendent and have them canned. Why should the OP have his life wrecked by this guy and the guy get off Scot free? That’s illogical to me.

Personally, I think the AP’s wife knows he’s a philanderer and stays anyway, I doubt he will divorce. Some people are willing to accept anything. But yes, I’d tell her (only with evidence in hand), after he’s in the clear financially. And I would inform her that scorched earth and exposure would result if terms of divorce with custody and such aren’t met, in a subtle, legal way.
As someone who has been through this, I can’t emphasize enough the importance of time. Once she knows he’s gone, her whole demeanor will change and she will be out for blood in divorce. She’s already proven that she indeed is that selfish and conniving.


----------



## SunCMars

Gabriel said:


> This is why you blow it up in other places. Her family, their friends. Let her suffer there. Framing the narrative at HER work doesn't matter at all. He doesn't go into her office or spend time there. He won't even know what is said. The ONLY benefit to exposing at work is to punish the OM. That is the only positive outcome possible, and he can do that in other ways. Gotta think critically and not emotionally.


Provided.....

After the divorce is final, then the School District can be presented the allegations.

And, the AP's wife is told, at some point, convenient to the divorce proceedings. 
Probably, after the divorce. She might go nuclear at the school, herself and spoil OP's better settlement.


----------



## SunCMars

Tdbo said:


> Wish I could say you were Bo, but I doubt it.
> The odds of her getting fired depend on 2 variables: the conservative nature of the community and the BOE, and the strength of the union.
> 
> *The stronger the union is, the less chance she has of getting fired.*


So true!


Yes, I have been up against Unions before.

They protect the guilty, and many could care less about justice or parity.
It is a contentious power struggle between management and the workers representatives.

Teacher unions are very strong in bigger cities.

Protecting their members is in their charters.
Such that, they are bound to do this.
And, if nothing else, they do_ that _well.


----------



## *Deidre*

BoSlander said:


> This is one thing I will never understand... wives "drifting away" from marriages in silence. Or hiding their displeasure with the way things are going behind euphemisms that most men will never fully understand.
> 
> This is why I strongly believe children ought to learn, from an early age, how to communicate effectively across genders.


It’s not a gender thing. If you read some of the stories on here posted by men or women that their spouses are having affairs, they often start off their threads with “everything was great and then he/she had an affair.”

But, as the thread goes on, the betrayed spouses remember something was “off.” My point being, no one goes from 0 to an affair, over night.

Think back to your wife’s behaviors - she probably started drifting away and you might not have thought much of it. But if you look back, you probably remember things changing. Even subtly.

But the affair itself, is always the cheater’s fault imo, because if they’re that unhappy, then ask for a divorce.


----------



## re16

Be sure you have backup copies of the recordings, she may attempt to look through everything you have and purge evidence.

It is crazy how many affairs happen in the education industry, here is another case of knowing about 3 affairs at one school.

I think the timeline is a good idea, even though you plan to divorce, it will be a written document that details that she is lying.

At some point, I would tell her parents the truth... your wife will likely try to create a false narrative with you being the problem (she already kinda did with those comments about you needing psychiatric care for accusing her of cheating).

You are doing well so far.

I would second VR's advice, and sometime soon, please tell the OM's wife, even if it is anonymous. A guy like VR would have never found out if it wasn't for the other spouse saying something.


----------



## BoSlander

*Deidre* said:


> It’s not a gender thing. If you read some of the stories on here posted by men or women that their spouses are having affairs, they often start off their threads with “everything was great and then he/she had an affair.”
> 
> But, as the thread goes on, the betrayed spouses remember something was “off.” My point being, no one goes from 0 to an affair, over night.
> 
> Think back to your wife’s behaviors - she probably started drifting away and you might not have thought much of it. But if you look back, you probably remember things changing. Even subtly.
> 
> But the affair itself, is always the cheater’s fault imo, because if they’re that unhappy, then ask for a divorce.


You may be right but... doesn't your first paragraph pretty much prove what I'm saying? That we can't communicate effectively? 

Yes, when it comes to adultery, there's more meat on the bone but the underlying issue of not being able to get the information we need so that we can make informed decisions is still there. I mean, people like Donovan Sharpe have made a ton of money deciphering what females are trying to say within romantic context. He calls it "_womanese_." My question is: Is this how we're supposed to communicate? Is this how we're supposed to express out feelings? Behind euphemisms? I, for one, don't think so. If my stomach hurts, I say "it hurts." _Et cetera_.

My XW's entire modus operandi was that of a classical serial cheater: she hid EVERYTHING. She was an entirely different animal. Did she ever give me "hints" of her cheating? Probably, but she was using *WAY MORE* energy trying to hide those relationships and making sure I did not find out. To this day, she has zero remorse, and the only thing she has expressed to me is "getting you mixed up in my own issues." Namely, "issues" she made sure I was not aware of when we first started going out and more so when I proposed to her. She was and is and will always be a f-cking filthy liar. Don't get her mixed up with the other females. Two different animals.


----------



## Megaforce

Yeah, the expectation of clairvoyance is high in many cheaters. One is supposed to just know they are unhappy. Many are passive aggressive. 
On another note, I am in the camp recommending holding off on disclosing. He loses whatever leverage he has relating to any fear of damage to her reputation she may have. Just wait until after the divorce. 
And, I agree as BHs go, he is acting fairly expeditiously. Just needs to be really careful about false DV charges. Seems to happen alarmingly frequently.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Gabriel said:


> Why though? For punishment? OP needs to think about how HIS life will be best served.
> 
> Also, most employers aren't going to care. They want to stay out of these things. Or just have a private convo and keep it quiet. Nobody wants negative gossip. Not to mention, him blowing this up at their school will only make for a rougher co-parenting situation.
> 
> Agree to disagree I guess.


Things that thrive in the dark only has benefit from darkness. The light of truth shone widely and brightly is the only disinfectant for that which festers in the shadows.

I am suspicious of anyone who advises that truth not be spread far and wide, unless like a sheathed concealed blade it only be drawn a moment before it draws fatal blood.

But that would make you an assassin, without honor, I was trained as a soldier (dumb brute who acts like a trungion when right).


----------



## Megaforce

Dictum Veritas said:


> Things that thrive in the dark only has benefit from darkness. The light of truth shone widely and brightly is the only disinfectant for that which festers in the shadows.
> 
> I am suspicious of anyone who advises that truth not be spread far and wide, unless like a sheathed concealed blade it only be drawn a moment before it draws fatal blood.
> 
> But that would make you an assassin, without honor, I was trained as a soldier (dumb brute who acts like a trungion when right).


The one thing a betrayed spouse needs to be worried about when disclosing is a phenomenon known as fundamental attribution error. A narrative about a betrayed husband being controlling or abusive is often times, being spun by the cheating wife as she tries to justify the cheating. To those who have not experienced cheating, remember, it is often viewed as a minor transgression and they buy these justifications. Most folks have no idea of the extent of the trauma.
If one is too zealous in revealing, too angry or demonstrative, it feeds into the cheater's characterization of the betrayed. This happened to a friend of mine. He was so pissed he came off as nuts, someone who folks believed was likely a controlling jerk. He was not, but his reaction to this particular type of abuse was just too extreme for public consumption.
So, be calm and matter of fact when disclosing.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Megaforce said:


> The one thing a betrayed spouse needs to be worried about when disclosing is a phenomenon known as fundamental attribution error. A narrative about a betrayed husband being controlling or abusive is often times, being spun by the cheating wife as she tries to justify the cheating. To those who have not experienced cheating, remember, it is often viewed as a minor transgression and they buy these justifications. Most folks have no idea of the extent of the trauma.
> If one is too zealous in revealing, too angry or demonstrative, it feeds into the cheater's characterization of the betrayed. This happened to a friend of mine. He was so pissed he came off as nuts, someone who folks believed was likely a controlling jerk. He was not, but his reaction to this particular type of abuse was just too extreme for public consumption.
> So, be calm and matter of fact when disclosing.


This is good advice, they say what precedes the word but is negating what was said, not in this case, but; lies fills a vacuum when no truth is offered. Offer the truth as soon as possible.


----------



## Gabriel

It's common here that people want vengeance. I get it. They want the perp to suffer max damage.

Just be careful of the damage turning collateral.

If clear of that possibility, then go for it.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Gabriel said:


> It's common here that people want vengeance. I get it. They want the perp to suffer max damage.
> 
> Just be careful of the damage turning collateral.
> 
> If clear of that possibility, then go for it.


Justice demands planning, not inaction.


----------



## BootsAndJeans




----------



## SnowToArmPits

> If I'm being honest, I'm also very embarassed that my wife would cheat on me. I don't exactly know how that conversation goes. Hi my wife is banging the overweight guy old enough to be her dad.


Here's how to make that conversation less embarrassing, you add this to the end: "That's why I'm divorcing her."

At some point down the road, make sure you inform the school administration about this as*hole, blow his world up. Then you can also add this to the above conversation, becomes even less embarrassing: "I had that as*hole fired from his job".


----------



## Jimi007

SnowToArmPits said:


> Here's how to make that conversation less embarrassing, you add this to the end: "That's why I'm divorcing her."
> 
> At some point down the road, make sure you inform the school administration about this as*hole, blow his world up. Then you can also add this to the above conversation, becomes even less embarrassing: "I had that as*hole fired from his job".


I totally agree , Scorched Earth


----------



## QuestionAssumptions

Hosed89 said:


> Based on what I have heard from the VAR recordings. I just can't answer this one for sure one way or the other.


Are the VAR recordings legal and admissible in your jurisdiction? If not, they may be good enough to confirm to you what's going on but you may need to pry other evidence out of your wife such as the burner phone (with the pass-code and without her tampering with it first), a written confession (with whom, what they did, and where), etc. It may be possible for you to get that out of her if she's convinced she's been caught, knows she can't lie her way out of it, and doesn't want your marriage to end and tell her that it's now or never. Mention that you'll likely demand she take a polygraph to confirm whatever she says.

If she's conflicted when you confront her, tell her that she's got a choice. She can either act lie Mrs. [Name], your wife and help you, or Ms. Side-piece for a married man and help him, but she can't be both and her old life if having it both ways is over. She needs to pick one. If she complains she's not a "side-piece for a married man", then ask her what she thinks she's been? If she answers, you might get a glimpse into her fantasy.

In any event, ask the lawyers you talk to about the legality of the VARs and what you can do to get further evidence. Follow their advise and ask them before doing something different.


----------



## *Deidre*

BoSlander said:


> You may be right but... doesn't your first paragraph pretty much prove what I'm saying? That we can't communicate effectively?
> 
> Yes, when it comes to adultery, there's more meat on the bone but the underlying issue of not being able to get the information we need so that we can make informed decisions is still there. I mean, people like Donovan Sharpe have made a ton of money deciphering what females are trying to say within romantic context. He calls it "_womanese_." My question is: Is this how we're supposed to communicate? Is this how we're supposed to express out feelings? Behind euphemisms? I, for one, don't think so. If my stomach hurts, I say "it hurts." _Et cetera_.
> 
> My XW's entire modus operandi was that of a classical serial cheater: she hid EVERYTHING. She was an entirely different animal. Did she ever give me "hints" of her cheating? Probably, but she was using *WAY MORE* energy trying to hide those relationships and making sure I did not find out. To this day, she has zero remorse, and the only thing she has expressed to me is "getting you mixed up in my own issues." Namely, "issues" she made sure I was not aware of when we first started going out and more so when I proposed to her. She was and is and will always be a f-cking filthy liar. Don't get her mixed up with the other females. Two different animals.


I understand your point as it relates to your ex wife. I’d like to think that I communicate clearly with my husband, but I’m not going to communicate like him. He’s not going to communicate like me. But, somehow, we learn from one another. To me, that’s what relationships are about, not men vs. women and being angry because we don’t communicate exactly alike.

As far as affairs and cheaters go though - even if your wife wasn’t happy in the marriage, that’s no reason to cheat. Most cheaters seem to want the best of both worlds - the security of marriage and the adventure of an affair. To act on that, is a person who lacks character and that is one of the main reasons why your wife cheated. She lacks character, and unfortunately you got hurt in all of that.


----------



## *Deidre*

Megaforce said:


> The one thing a betrayed spouse needs to be worried about when disclosing is a phenomenon known as fundamental attribution error. A narrative about a betrayed husband being controlling or abusive is often times, being spun by the cheating wife as she tries to justify the cheating. To those who have not experienced cheating, remember, it is often viewed as a minor transgression and they buy these justifications. Most folks have no idea of the extent of the trauma.
> If one is too zealous in revealing, too angry or demonstrative, it feeds into the cheater's characterization of the betrayed. This happened to a friend of mine. He was so pissed he came off as nuts, someone who folks believed was likely a controlling jerk. He was not, but his reaction to this particular type of abuse was just too extreme for public consumption.
> So, be calm and matter of fact when disclosing.


That’s an excellent point; I wouldn’t have considered that.


----------



## Megaforce

*Deidre* said:


> That’s an excellent point; I wouldn’t have considered that.


Just an aside, but the way I handled some of the disclosures seemed to work for me. I directly disclosed to immediate family and close friends. But, when dealing with folks that were not too close( primarily friends of my in laws who had come to know me fairly well, or neighbors), I would work the disclosure more casually into the conversation. 
I would be approached by one of these folks, often expressing sympathy that we were divorcing, " Sorry to hear that you a ... are divorcing" etc. They had no idea about cheating.
I would respond " yeah, thanks. Not much I could do, what with the cheating. "
I would not ld just work it in , as though it was an established fact( she was maintaining innocence, for a while). Just matter of fact, resigned to it and as if it was generally accepted as fact by all( it was by her family, who helped me investigate).
No approaching these more casual acquaintances with specific intent to disclose. Just worked it into the dialogue. Got a lot of surprised expressions.
The lack of advocacy to establish it seemed to impress folks that it was true.. And, I was always calm, just resigned to the fact demeanor.


----------



## Beach123

Or just say “I’m divorcing you because I deserve better - and I want my self respect”!


----------



## bygone

your wife had an affair and she didn't confess even though you asked many times, she continued to sleep with om, you listened to these

you do not disclose her and om, you are embarrassed and financial situation

your wife is equipped to find a new job in a few months,

(I think it should be)
(Write the names of your wife and om on the divorce papers. Let it be sent to your wife at work and om's house, the lawyer also inform affair the workplace with evidence / if there is a law of alienation of love, sue om / answer honestly to those who ask why you are divorced.)

You have a chance to put aside excuses and remind yourself that you are a self-respecting man and a father, but you don't have the courage to do so.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

BootsAndJeans said:


> View attachment 94075


Amen from the choir.


----------



## Hosed89

I have been spending time with the kids. They spend some nights here with me and some with their mom at her parents house.

I am set with an appointment to see a lawyer on Thursday.

Have an appointment with my doctor next Tuesday.

Couldn't sleep last night thinking about everything again. I think I may have missed a signal when things started. However, when I asked she had excuses that I believed.

She was bringing more work home with her this year than she normally had. In hindsight, I think this is because she was not using her planning period to do work and was extending her school days a bit to mess around. Basically took time away from us at home and had me doing more stuff around the house to pick up the slack. The gift that just keeps giving a kick to the backside. She said the kids were behind and she was doing extra work trying to get them caught up. I believed it.

She has continued to blow up my phone today. I have done my best to ignore her.


----------



## Diana7

Hosed89 said:


> I have been spending time with the kids. They spend some nights here with me and some with their mom at her parents house.
> 
> I am set with an appointment to see a lawyer on Thursday.
> 
> Have an appointment with my doctor next Tuesday.
> 
> Couldn't sleep last night thinking about everything again. I think I may have missed a signal when things started. However, when I asked she had excuses that I believed.
> 
> She was bringing more work home with her this year than she normally had. In hindsight, I think this is because she was not using her planning period to do work and was extending her school days a bit to mess around. Basically took time away from us at home and had me doing more stuff around the house to pick up the slack. The gift that just keeps giving a kick to the backside. She said the kids were behind and she was doing extra work trying to get them caught up. I believed it.
> 
> She has continued to blow up my phone today. I have done my best to ignore her.


Dont kick yourself for not seeing it clearly before. We are supposed to be able to trust our spouse, you believed what she said which is normal. A family member had the same. Felt something was off but believed her when she told him he was being paranoid. They have been divorced for many years and he has had a really nice partner for about 10 years now.

Just wanted to say, I will never understand who some women go after these players who cheat and sleep around. I would run a mile from a guy like that.


----------



## Evinrude58

Hosed89 said:


> I have been spending time with the kids. They spend some nights here with me and some with their mom at her parents house.
> 
> I am set with an appointment to see a lawyer on Thursday.
> 
> Have an appointment with my doctor next Tuesday.
> 
> Couldn't sleep last night thinking about everything again. I think I may have missed a signal when things started. However, when I asked she had excuses that I believed.
> 
> She was bringing more work home with her this year than she normally had. In hindsight, I think this is because she was not using her planning period to do work and was extending her school days a bit to mess around. Basically took time away from us at home and had me doing more stuff around the house to pick up the slack. The gift that just keeps giving a kick to the backside. She said the kids were behind and she was doing extra work trying to get them caught up. I believed it.
> 
> She has continued to blow up my phone today. I have done my best to ignore her.


I think that the more she lies, the more she boosts your resolve. The longer she lies, the longer you will have an extra motivation to detach and the more you wil see her as she really is and not who you wished she was.

She is taking a jackhammer to the pedestal you’ve had her on all this time.

I sincerely hope for your sake that her Lies and attempts to gaslight you, continue to go on.
It’s extremely hard to get past your mind’s urge to get you loose from the excruciating pain you’re enduring. Her lies are helping you.

I hate it for you, but the truth you have is inevitably going to set you free. I’ll bet that VAR is well worth the price to you at this point.

sorry for what you’re suffering. Just know that the wise action you’re taking will get you faster to the point of seeing the light at the end of the tunnel that all betrayed spouses so desperately need to see.


----------



## Diana7

Evinrude58 said:


> I think that the more she lies, the more she boosts your resolve. The longer she lies, the longer you will have an extra motivation to detach and the more you wil see her as she really is and not who you wished she was.
> 
> She is taking a jackhammer to the pedestal you’ve had her on all this time.
> 
> I sincerely hope for your sake that her Lies and attempts to gaslight you, continue to go on.
> It’s extremely hard to get past your mind’s urge to get you loose from the excruciating pain you’re enduring. Her lies are helping you.
> 
> I hate it for you, but the truth you have is inevitably going to set you free. I’ll bet that VAR is well worth the price to you at this point.
> 
> sorry for what you’re suffering. Just know that the wise action you’re taking will get you faster to the point of seeing the light at the end of the tunnel that all betrayed spouses so desperately need to see.


The lies are just as bad as the cheating sometimes.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

I'd blow her and AP up at their work. The court normally considers her earning potential, not her current earnings when calculating alimony (ask your lawyer though).


----------



## bff

@Hosed89 You're doing great, Brother. You're getting good advice here, but more importantly, you're sifting through it and following what makes sense for you. I've been there (like many others, here) and I just want to tell you that as dark as things seem right now, there is light on the other side of all of this. Sounds like you're still a young guy - this is NOT the end of the world, as much as it probably feels that way now. I vividly remember pulling VARs and listening to them and hearing my XW and OM laughing ABOUT ME and thinking to myself "I can't believe this is my life." You seem like a very reasoned, proactive guy. It won't be easy and it won't be quick, but you will get through it.

One bit of advice I'll give you: you need to AT LEAST tell the OM's wife, if not the school. I promised myself I was going to take the high road and not be vindictive or vengeful to my XW. So I was reluctant to "blow them up". I wanted to just let karma take care of that. But, at the advice of many folks in this forum (some of them posting in this thread!) I talked to the OM's long-time girlfriend. She didn't know he was cheating on her, but she DID know of the affair 6 years prior! She thought it was done and dusted. She deserved to know, and if she had followed this advice and told me, I might have saved 6 years of my life. Anyway, to make a long story short, sounds like OM in your situation is a serial cheater, and there are probably other guys in your position that would want to know that their spouses are betraying them... maybe telling the OM's wife or school would get that word out to the right people.

Always happy to help if you need someone to hear you out or bounce ideas off of in a less public setting. Feel free to DM me if I can be of any assistance. Many, many people here want to help!

bff


----------



## TAMAT

Hosed,

Do the world a favor and expose this institutional predator.

This is why this guy was so good at coaching your WW about what to do and say, unfortunately for OM you found this site and strength and You are not going to absorb this. 

If you know of other WWs the OM cheated with expose the OM to their BHs as well, who knows perhaps they will do your dirty work for you.


----------



## Megaforce

Have you stopped to think about what your wife was like in other areas? The character flaws required for cheating spill over into just about every facet of their lives. Cheaters are dishonest and lack empathy. They are selfish in the extreme. 

Think back over your relationship. Odds are with your blinders off now, you will start to recall just how deficient she was in many other areas. Reflecting on this can help drive away some of the doubt that may linger as to whether you are doing the right thing by divorcing.


----------



## Megaforce

Was it your wife who told you this guy had cheated with others? That is a bit strange. Had he told her this and she still went forward with cheating?
You have been exposed to a huge STD risk. Not just from this guy and the other women. You have, essentially, been exposed to all of the sexual partners of this group. Think those women that cheated only did so with this guy? Your wife put your health in serious jeopardy.


----------



## Trdd

Sorry you are here. 

Most wayward wives will not come clean until you blow up the entire thing. Just like yours, their AP and friends tell them not to reveal the affair. Hell, some counselors tell them that too. They believe that confessing will end the marriage so if they want the marriage, the hide the truth for as long as they can. Little do they know that the trickle truth and lying will kill the marriage too. 

If you are set on D, it doesn't really matter. She may or may not ever confess. But if you decide you want to consider R, then finding a way to tell her you have proof of the infidelity that is 100% certain and her lies are killing any chance of even a remotely possible R is probably the strategy to take. You are in the driver's seat because you have proof. She does not need to know how you got it if you don't choose to reveal that. So if you want to conisder R, tell her and also tell her to research trickle truth and lying post affairs so she can see what she is doing will kill any chance of R. You can do that after seeing the lawyer if you can wait.


----------



## QuestionAssumptions

Trdd said:


> So if you want to conisder R, tell her and also tell her to research trickle truth and lying post affairs so she can see what she is doing will kill any chance of R. You can do that after seeing the lawyer if you can wait.


Even if there isn't a chance of reconciliation at this point, he can give her the hope that there is a chance to get a confession out of her, especially if he wants one. I don't think telling her to research trickle truth and lying post affairs would be as effective as handing her printed articles about Trickle Truth and how cheaters lie about affairs to read. @Hosed89 has no obligation to be honest or fair with her at this point. And when he tells her what he knows, he doesn't have to tell her how he knows and probably shouldn't unless his lawyers tell him to.


----------



## FakeNews001

Hosed89 said:


> She has continued to blow up my phone today. I have done my best to ignore her.


Stay strong. Grow your self respect to a level where she can't break it down.


----------



## ShatteredKat

Hosed;

(kind of fitting handle eh?)

suggestion: Go back over this thread and read - pick what fits your situation.

Suggest you read #6 and the "Weightlifters" standard post a few times also.

You are fighting with someone who purposefully inflicted pain and suffering - although that likely was not a forethought on her part. Regardless, you have suffered. Treat her as an enemy to your bodily and mental health.

use your Internet search and do: "how infidelity affects men" - lots of info that can help you through the coming days


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Consider writing an excerpt of one of the VARs.Leave it for your wife to see. Take an envelope make it look like it was mailed to you using POSOMs return address. Mess with her and his minds. He will wonder what his wife knows. Exploit their paranoia to the max.


----------



## Jimi007

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Consider writing an excerpt of one of the VARs.Leave it for your wife to see. Take an envelope make it look like it was mailed to you using POSOMs return address. Mess with her and his minds. He will wonder what his wife knows. Exploit their paranoia to the max.


I totally disagree....He shouldn't tip his hand until after he files..She doesn't need to know how he got his info ...Then scorched earth and blow'em all up


----------



## gr8ful1

Lawyer. Lawyer. Lawyer. Before you do ANYTHING. Continue a strict 180 (this is for your own emotional protection). No doubt she’s lying thru her teeth to her parents. Let her. After the divorce, visit her parents privately and play (but don’t give) the recording for them. That way they’ll hear it but won’t have a copy of it. Never play it for your STBXW. Let her parents be the ones to come down on her. You’ll be long gone - much to your benefit.


----------



## Tdbo

Jimi007 said:


> I totally disagree....He shouldn't tip his hand until after he files..She doesn't need to know how he got his info ...Then scorched earth and blow'em all up


The key is that he needs her to be paranoid.
He needs to take a couple of pieces of information that he has obtained.
The smaller and trivial the better, he doesn't want to burn a source, but she *has to know that he knows something.*
With the right question set, he could manipulate her into confessing.
Catbird seat! Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Tdbo

QuestionAssumptions said:


> Even if there isn't a chance of reconciliation at this point, he can give her the hope that there is a chance to get a confession out of her, especially if he wants one. I don't think telling her to research trickle truth and lying post affairs would be as effective as handing her printed articles about Trickle Truth and how cheaters lie about affairs to read. @Hosed89 has no obligation to be honest or fair with her at this point. And when he tells her what he knows, he doesn't have to tell her how he knows and probably shouldn't unless his lawyers tell him to.



This is the key.
Making a reconciliation call is not necessary right now.
Frankly, his goal right now should be to break her down to base level.
He needs to make her a sobbing pile of goo.
She needs to think that he is willing to stay together to get her to this point.
He needs to manipulate the hell out of her.
He needs the knowledge.
Knowledge is power.
He can make his decision after he gets what he needs to protect him and his kids.


----------



## Evinrude58

I disagree. He already has the info he needs. She continues to obfuscate and gaslight. A confession is useless unless written and signed which she won’t give.

lawyer up and come up with a plan of action with the attorney, then follow it.
Nothing left to do. After settlement, then inform AP spouse and AP work.


----------



## Megaforce

Tdbo said:


> This is the key.
> Making a reconciliation call is not necessary right now.
> Frankly, his goal right now should be to break her down to base level.
> He needs to make her a sobbing pile of goo.
> She needs to think that he is willing to stay together to get her to this point.
> He needs to manipulate the hell out of her.
> He needs the knowledge.
> Knowledge is power.
> He can make his decision after he gets what he needs to protect him and his kids.


Seems he has all the knowledge he needs already. 
Even if it were possible to elicit some emotional response from his wife(and a genuine one is unlikely, IMO) one should not give a rat's s ass.
The women is a living, manipulative jerk, devoid of empathy. What satisfaction comes from seeing some performance of fake remorse?


----------



## Megaforce

Megaforce said:


> Seems he has all the knowledge he needs already.
> Even if it were possible to elicit some emotional response from his wife(and a genuine one is unlikely, IMO) one should not give a rat's s ass.
> The women is a living, manipulative jerk, devoid of empathy. What satisfaction comes from seeing some performance of fake remorse?


Lying, not living. I hate this autocorrect.


----------



## Megaforce

His lawyer should be the one that alludes to wider dissemination of information if the negotiations are less than favorable. The lawyer should know how to handle it without crossing the extortion line.
In a friend's case, they subpoenaed the affair partner alleging that dissipating marital assets in the affair was relevant to the division of assets.
His wife folded as she was so concerned about her reputation. Once the divorce was finalized, he disclosed far and wide anyway.


----------



## Gabriel

Hosed89 said:


> I have been spending time with the kids. They spend some nights here with me and some with their mom at her parents house.
> 
> I am set with an appointment to see a lawyer on Thursday.
> 
> Have an appointment with my doctor next Tuesday.
> 
> Couldn't sleep last night thinking about everything again. I think I may have missed a signal when things started. However, when I asked she had excuses that I believed.
> 
> She was bringing more work home with her this year than she normally had. In hindsight, I think this is because she was not using her planning period to do work and was extending her school days a bit to mess around. Basically took time away from us at home and had me doing more stuff around the house to pick up the slack. The gift that just keeps giving a kick to the backside. She said the kids were behind and she was doing extra work trying to get them caught up. I believed it.
> 
> She has continued to blow up my phone today. I have done my best to ignore her.


She's in panic mode. 

Good.

I take it she's still admitting nothing?


----------



## sideways

Your wife takes you for a chump.

She wanted to take a nap at your place and left a trail of her clothes to the bedroom. Hoping you'd take her p*$$# bait.


----------



## Tdbo

Megaforce said:


> Seems he has all the knowledge he needs already.
> Even if it were possible to elicit some emotional response from his wife(and a genuine one is unlikely, IMO) one should not give a rat's s ass.
> The women is a living, manipulative jerk, devoid of empathy. What satisfaction comes from seeing some performance of fake remorse?


No, he really does need some additional information.
I'm not talking about fake remorse. I'm talking about actually mentally breaking her, breaking her emotionally to the point where she is almost, if not totally rubber room worthy.
All's fair in love and war, especially when your spouse turns it into a battle royale.


----------



## Tdbo

sideways said:


> Your wife takes you for a chump.
> 
> She wanted to take a nap at your place and left a trail of her clothes to the bedroom. Hoping you'd take her p*$$# bait.


That's all she has, so he is really in a good place.
Now, he needs to ratchet down. Hard.


----------



## ButtPunch

I agree with all the others that the OM's wife should be informed but that doesn't have to be today. 

I would not inform the school either but use that as leverage for the divorce negotiations.

Once the divorce is final, I would immediately inform the betrayed wife.

As far as reporting to the school, I would let it go. You have young kids and her losing her
job would not benefit you or them in the least. Hopefully, your desire for revenge will have
faded by then anyway.


----------



## Megaforce

Tdbo said:


> No, he really does need some additional information.
> I'm not talking about fake remorse. I'm talking about actually mentally breaking her, breaking her emotionally to the point where she is almost, if not totally rubber room worthy.
> All's fair in love and war, especially when your spouse turns it into a battle royale.


To what end? There are kids here. Plus,mwhatvare thevodds someone with her level,of dysfunction would breakdown? These folks, the disordered, have their defense mechanism somfirmly in place that it is near impossible to breakthrough them and get them to regret their actions. 
Just keep it strictly business. If the threat of possibly divulging buys some chips in negotiations, great.
I have had many clients that wanted some personal satisfaction in the form of an apology or remorse from an offender. It is rarely forthcoming.


----------



## Tdbo

Megaforce said:


> To what end? There are kids here. Plus,mwhatvare thevodds someone with her level,of dysfunction would breakdown? These folks, the disordered, have their defense mechanism somfirmly in place that it is near impossible to breakthrough them and get them to regret their actions.
> Just keep it strictly business. If the threat of possibly divulging buys some chips in negotiations, great.
> I have had many clients that wanted some personal satisfaction in the form of an apology or remorse from an offender. It is rarely forthcoming.


I'm not going to break information that I was given in a private conversation.
He needs additional information. That's all I'm going to say.
You absolutely can break through their "Defense Mechanism" if you want to.
All you need are the skills (including being a total SOB) to do so.


----------



## jsmart

It always hurts when you look back and realize how deep the betrayal was. That your wife was using up her planning time to F this POS, which then forced her to spend less time with you and the kids and less around the house . I would bet that your sex life was really drying up but chalked it up to her working hard. 

There was a very popular thread on SI that the WW admitted to turning her husband down in the mornings that she knew she was going to be with OM or the evenings after she was with him. See, the OM is always a WW’s priority. There’s no way she was going to turn her OM down, so she turns her husband down. I’m sure you were getting a similar treatment.

The more you look back, you will discover how deeply she betrayed you and the family. Having a young kids at home meant nothing to her. Through her actions, she showed that having sex with OM was more important than having family time in the evening with her young kids.


----------



## Jimi007

Evinrude58 said:


> I disagree. He already has the info he needs. She continues to obfuscate and gaslight. A confession is useless unless written and signed which she won’t give.
> 
> lawyer up and come up with a plan of action with the attorney, then follow it.
> Nothing left to do. After settlement, then inform AP spouse and AP work.


@Tdbo ....100% All day


----------



## *Deidre*

Tdbo said:


> No, he really does need some additional information.
> I'm not talking about fake remorse. I'm talking about actually mentally breaking her, breaking her emotionally to the point where she is almost, if not totally rubber room worthy.
> All's fair in love and war, especially when your spouse turns it into a battle royale.


To go to such lengths to destroy someone’s life will actually hurt the revenge seeker just as much, to be honest. 😌

Reminds me of Nietzsche “He who fights against monsters should see to it that he does not become a monster in the process.”


----------



## Jimi007

*Deidre* said:


> To go to such lengths to destroy someone’s life will actually hurt the revenge seeker just as much, to be honest. 😌
> 
> Reminds me of Nietzsche “He who fights against monsters should see to it that he does not become a monster in the process.”


He has to become a monster in the process...Or lose himself


----------



## Rus47

Tdbo said:


> The key is that he needs her to be paranoid.
> He needs to take a couple of pieces of information that he has obtained.
> The smaller and trivial the better, he doesn't want to burn a source, but she *has to know that he knows something.*
> With the right question set, he could manipulate her into confessing.
> Catbird seat! Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Wasnt OP tipped off by one of OMs previous interests? That letter or note could be revealed.


----------



## *Deidre*

Jimi007 said:


> He has to become a monster in the process...Or lose himself


I disagree. Doing what he needs to do to protect himself and his kids doesn’t have to make him someone he doesn’t recognize. Reporting the guy to the school isn’t vindictive, it’s part of doing the right thing for that school and parents who trust sending their kids there.

Hopefully, a good attorney will navigate some of this for him.


----------



## Tdbo

*Deidre* said:


> To go to such lengths to destroy someone’s life will actually hurt the revenge seeker just as much, to be honest. 😌


Sometimes in life, you have to look at the big picture, and act accordingly.
Not at all saying that this is a desired tactic, but it all comes down to the proper tool for the job.
Besides, who tried to destroy whose life and their family first?


----------



## *Deidre*

Tdbo said:


> Sometimes in life, you have to look at the big picture, and act accordingly.
> Not at all saying that this is a desired tactic, but it all comes down to the proper tool for the job.
> Besides, who tried to destroy whose life and their family first?


She destroyed the family with her adultery, totally agree, but that doesn't mean the OP needs to purposely destroy her. She will reap what she has sown.

I think with young kids in the picture, they both need to be emotionally present for them, and if it turns into complete chaos and she ends up trying to take her life over it (never know), who does that serve?

It also may backfire. If it were me, I would just let the lawyers do all the talking, and my husband wouldn't be allowed to just pop over anytime he wants. I wouldn't be reconciling, because all of this took incredible planning on her and the OM's part. To me, I'd always wonder if I'm just a marriage of convenience for my husband, and not really who he would want to be with. No thanks.

But, that's just me. Everyone has to do what they need to do. I'm just cautioning against going off the rails and turning into someone you're not so you can stick it to a cheating spouse.

In the end, the OP is still left feeling bad that this all happened to begin with. Revenge doesn't speed up the healing process, it just makes you a different person, AND you're still left having to heal on your own. I'm not a vengeful person, I would just lessen my communication. I've always thought silence is the best answer with someone like the OP's wife. I'd keep it to communicating about the kids and the divorce only, if he takes that path.

Just my thoughts, anyway.


----------



## re16

The best revenge will be quickly living a better life, moving on like she was nothing to him.

Professional and business like to her, only engaging in discussion regarding children. Perhaps the threat of disclosure will help get her on board with acting similar.

Her seeing him at a kids sports event with a hot new younger girlfriend will be all the revenge he needs...


----------



## Openminded

My exH had a prominent role in our community and in his field. I considered blowing his professional life up when I divorced him but I didn’t. It had nothing to do with money since that was done. I felt whatever happened to him in the future — payback, so to speak — would happen even without my involvement. And it did.


----------



## Tdbo

*Deidre* said:


> I'm just cautioning against going off the rails and turning into someone you're not so you can stick it to a cheating spouse.


Honestly, I agree with about 98% of your original post.
However, nobody said anything about going off the rails.
I'm talking about utilizing a somewhat harsh tactic in a targeted and measured manner to achieve a specific objective.
If it is in the long term best interest of the wronged individuals involved to utilize it, why not?
If it helps equalize the "Playing field" so the wronged come out of it okay, what's wrong with that?
Actually, if done correctly, it may help the offender become a better person in the long run, if the destructive behavior and entitlement is eviscerated and is replaced with a more constructive mindset.
It's behavior modification in its crudest form.


----------



## Gabriel

Tdbo said:


> The key is that he needs her to be paranoid.
> He needs to take a couple of pieces of information that he has obtained.
> The smaller and trivial the better, he doesn't want to burn a source, but she *has to know that he knows something.*
> With the right question set, he could manipulate her into confessing.
> Catbird seat! Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I thought he had proof. You said you learned in a private convo that he does not? Without disclosing details....is there proof she cheated or not?

Listening to stuff on a VAR confirming she's having an inappropriate relationship should be all he needs. Physical cheating really doesn't even matter at this point. It's clear she's extremely deceptive, been lying about her relationship with this person. Plus there's the letter tipping him off.


----------



## re16

Has she admitted to anything yet?

I think he has full proof of PA through VAR, but he hasn't let her know what evidence he has.


----------



## Tdbo

Gabriel said:


> I thought he had proof. You said you learned in a private convo that he does not? Without disclosing details....is there proof she cheated or not?
> 
> Listening to stuff on a VAR confirming she's having an inappropriate relationship should be all he needs. Physical cheating really doesn't even matter at this point. It's clear she's extremely deceptive, been lying about her relationship with this person. Plus there's the letter tipping him off.


I said he needs additional information.
I'm not going any farther than that, other than to say it would be similar to deciding that if you had a piece of pie in front of you, would it taste better with a scoop of ice cream on top of it?
Kind of cryptic, I know, but it's not my story to tell.
He's got this.


----------



## Evinrude58

Get a PI and get the scoop of ice cream.
The affair isn’t over, she hasn’t been dumped. Heck, they were only screwing, it wasn’t real relationship anyway. OP’s wife is one of many in his harem. I wonder if she foolishly thinks she’s the only one he’s banging ?


----------



## ABHale

I don’t believe anything should be done at this time to jeopardize the cheater’s job. If that means telling the OBS after agreements are signed and sealed so be it. It worked out ok for VR finding out a little later.

I would have the VAR recordings transcribed if you are able. I believe there is a program that can do this.

I believe a letter sent to you from the AP’s address would be a great thing for your wife to see by mistake (Great thought @No Longer Lonely Husband). It might get a full confession from your wife. Make sure the envelope is bulky.


----------



## Evinrude58

ABHale said:


> I don’t believe anything should be done at this time to jeopardize the cheater’s job. If that means telling the OBS after agreements are signed and sealed so be it. *It worked out ok for VR finding out a little later. *
> I was thinking he would actually have been able to start a family with a new, more loyal lady if he’d been told sooner. Just sayin’, not meaning to be argumentative.
> 
> I would have the VAR recordings transcribed if you are able. I believe there is a program that can do this.
> 
> I believe a letter sent to you from the AP’s address would be a great thing for your wife to see by mistake (Great thought @No Longer Lonely Husband). It might get a full confession from your wife. Make sure the envelope is bulky.


----------



## jlg07

Hosed89 said:


> I have been spending time with the kids. They spend some nights here with me and some with their mom at her parents house.
> 
> I am set with an appointment to see a lawyer on Thursday.
> 
> Have an appointment with my doctor next Tuesday.
> 
> Couldn't sleep last night thinking about everything again. I think I may have missed a signal when things started. However, when I asked she had excuses that I believed.
> 
> She was bringing more work home with her this year than she normally had. In hindsight, I think this is because she was not using her planning period to do work and was extending her school days a bit to mess around. Basically took time away from us at home and had me doing more stuff around the house to pick up the slack. The gift that just keeps giving a kick to the backside. She said the kids were behind and she was doing extra work trying to get them caught up. I believed it.
> 
> She has continued to blow up my phone today. I have done my best to ignore her.


Don't forget -- the 180 isn't for you to reconcile with her or punish her -- it is to help YOU detach from her so that you can move on. Keep following it as much as you can. Talk to her ONLY about the kids, and the divorce....


----------



## Rubix Cubed

The VAR recordings are illegal (neither party were privy or gave consent to the conversation being recorded). If he divulges the recording or writes them out and they are discovered he could go to jail, get a record and completely screw the pooch on ANYTHING divorce-related.


----------



## Rus47

Rubix Cubed said:


> The VAR recordings are illegal (neither party were privy or gave consent to the conversation being recorded). If he divulges the recording or writes them out and they are discovered he could go to jail, get a record and completely screw the pooch on ANYTHING divorce-related.


He was informed originally by one of the AP's lovers, who was probably trying to sink WW's ship and reclaim the AP. OP used a VAR to confirm what he had been told. And knows exactly what his wife was doing and when. So there is no need to ever divulge the use of a VAR to anyone. He certainly needs nothing to divorce her. I believe he confirmed it was pulled from her vehicle. He knows what happened, which is all that counts. I assume his attorney has informed him about the issues.

His WW has no idea what he knows or how he knows it, and IMO he would be wise to keep it that way.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Rus47 said:


> His WW has no idea what he knows or how he knows it, and IMO *he would be wise to keep it that way.*


Agreed. 
From an OPSEC standpoint and a 'screw you for keeping secrets' schadenfreude standpoint.


----------



## ABHale

Maybe, VR truly loved his wife. It will take some time for him to heal. I believe the love for his son will help that along.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

ABHale said:


> I don’t believe anything should be done at this time to jeopardize the cheater’s job. If that means telling the OBS after agreements are signed and sealed so be it. It worked out ok for VR finding out a little later.
> 
> I would have the VAR recordings transcribed if you are able. I believe there is a program that can do this.
> 
> I believe a letter sent to you from the AP’s address would be a great thing for your wife to see by mistake (Great thought @No Longer Lonely Husband). It might get a full confession from your wife. Make sure the envelope is bulky.


Just think of the fun he could have making her squirm.


----------



## QuestionAssumptions

Rubix Cubed said:


> The VAR recordings are illegal (neither party were privy or gave consent to the conversation being recorded). If he divulges the recording or writes them out and they are discovered he could go to jail, get a record and completely screw the pooch on ANYTHING divorce-related.


That's why he needs to talk to the lawyers before doing anything else.

Some US states are one party consent. Some require both parties to give consent for recordings. Having no consent in a private place like a car is almost certainly a problem. As such, the VAR recordings may be sufficient for @Hosed89 to know what his wife has been up to for his own certainty and to decide if he wants to divorce her but probably won't be admissible in divorce proceedings, probably can't be used to get her or the AP fired, and shouldn't be disclosed to others at all as you point out. If his parents have heard the VAR recordings, they should also probably not talk about it, either. And trying to use the recordings to hurt his wife or the AP will increase the odds that they'd try to take legal action against him. Again, he needs to talk to the lawyers about all of this and listen to what they say, even if it sounds incredibly unfair.

This is also why I think his best bet is to tell her what he knows at some point in sufficient detail to make it clear to his wife that he knows everything, not tell her how he knows or about the VAR recordings, leave out any details that he could only know via such recordings (specifics of what they talked about), and try to get a full disclosure confession out of her immediately while she's still surprised and before she can coordinate with the AP that's been coaching her, either recorded or in writing and signed, under the hope that if she does so that he might consider not divorcing her if she comes totally clean and doesn't talk to the AP. He might also want to immediately ask her for her burner phone, the access code, and her permission to look at it while she's in shock if she says she'll do anything to save their marriage. Handing her an article from an infidelity/reconciliation site that stresses the importance of immediate honesty and full disclosure if there is any chance of saving the marriage and asking her to read it before she does anything else might help him get her to cooperate and confess.

If adultery is irrelevant in divorce settlements where he lives, the lawyers will probably advise him to simply file to divorce her, split the assets and child custody, and forget about the recordings and possibly destroy them. If he's looking to get her or the AP fired at some point, his best bet is probably telling the school district and the AP's wife about the original email that tipped him off, allude to them that he confirmed that it's true to his satisfaction and believes they've been having sex in the school, and that he is divorcing his wife without divulging more details, and let them take it from there.

But, again, he should listen to the advice of lawyers over other advice going forward, so I'm curious what the lawyers will say to do on Thursday.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Agreed.
I think that was established and he recognized it when he posted the info had been recorded.
Very informative post(s). I've gotta wonder where you came from.


----------



## Amanhasnoname

Jimi007 said:


> I totally disagree....He shouldn't tip his hand until after he files..She doesn't need to know how he got his info ...Then scorched earth and blow'em all up


She won't be finding out how he got his info, she'll be getting a taste of her own gaslighting medicine.


----------



## Megaforce

QuestionAssumptions said:


> That's why he needs to talk to the lawyers before doing anything else.
> 
> Some US states are one party consent. Some require both parties to give consent for recordings. Having no consent in a private place like a car is almost certainly a problem. As such, the VAR recordings may be sufficient for @Hosed89 to know what his wife has been up to for his own certainty and to decide if he wants to divorce her but probably won't be admissible in divorce proceedings, probably can't be used to get her or the AP fired, and shouldn't be disclosed to others at all as you point out. If his parents have heard the VAR recordings, they should also probably not talk about it, either. And trying to use the recordings to hurt his wife or the AP will increase the odds that they'd try to take legal action against him. Again, he needs to talk to the lawyers about all of this and listen to what they say, even if it sounds incredibly unfair.
> 
> This is also why I think his best bet is to tell her what he knows at some point in sufficient detail to make it clear to his wife that he knows everything, not tell her how he knows or about the VAR recordings, leave out any details that he could only know via such recordings (specifics of what they talked about), and try to get a full disclosure confession out of her immediately while she's still surprised and before she can coordinate with the AP that's been coaching her, either recorded or in writing and signed, under the hope that if she does so that he might consider not divorcing her if she comes totally clean and doesn't talk to the AP. He might also want to immediately ask her for her burner phone, the access code, and her permission to look at it while she's in shock if she says she'll do anything to save their marriage. Handing her an article from an infidelity/reconciliation site that stresses the importance of immediate honesty and full disclosure if there is any chance of saving the marriage and asking her to read it before she does anything else might help him get her to cooperate and confess.
> 
> If adultery is irrelevant in divorce settlements where he lives, the lawyers will probably advise him to simply file to divorce her, split the assets and child custody, and forget about the recordings and possibly destroy them. If he's looking to get her or the AP fired at some point, his best bet is probably telling the school district and the AP's wife about the original email that tipped him off, allude to them that he confirmed that it's true to his satisfaction and believes they've been having sex in the school, and that he is divorcing his wife without divulging more details, and let them take it from there.
> 
> But, again, he should listen to the advice of lawyers over other advice going forward, so I'm curious what the lawyers will say to do on Thursday.


Yeah, in just about all jurisdictions, infidelity is irrelevant. I know in a few it can affect division of assets and maintenance. Odds are it will not,but worth checking with his attorney. 
Most of us have had to make due with never getting the truth from the cheater. Even in the face of virtually incontrovertible evidence they deny.
And, because the typical, normal person cannot accept th hat there are, actually, people out there walking among us who are so messed up and can do this, sometimes, doubt creeps in a little.
All types of influences come to bear making us doubt what we know.
For example, one night I found some writings of my XW, specifically stating " I want to stop my destructive habits, smoking, drinking, SEX WITH STRANGERS. "
I was a young lawyer then. I was trying cases and trained to sniff out dishonesty and had decent reading comprehension and analytical abilities. Yet, for a period of months, I did not confront and would , actually, question whether I had either misread or whether these writings were just fantasy ( yet, I knew and accepted that she was smoking and drinking. So, why could I not face the reality about the extramarital sex?).
Now, as an older, maybe wiser person, I am a bit embarrassed by ,not my naivety, but my retreat into denial. I now understand where that stems from.


----------



## Affaircare

Okay let's summarize on the VAR thing. 

The VAR is not for "evidence in a court of law" when it is used to determine if a spouse is or is not cheating. The VAR is for one purpose only: for the Betrayed Spouse to hear and convince themselves what is or is not happening. The vast majority of Betrayed have a "gut feeling" that something is going on, and when they talk to their Wayward about it, they get gaslit and told they have mental health issues. In other words, they are lied to! So the VAR proves TO THE BETRAYED ONLY that their gut feeling was correct...or not. These recordings are not helpful as evidence in a court of law.

The only other time a VAR is recommended is after the Wayward begins to realize that the Betrayed is divorcing and they are serious about it, sometimes a Wayward will attempt to gain temporary custody of the home and children with a false domestic violence claim. IN THAT INSTANCE, we recommend a VAR be used every time there is any kind of interaction between the Betrayed and Wayward. To operate within the law in those circumstances, you HOLD UP THE VAR so the other party can see it, and you say, "For both of our safety I am recording this conversation. As a party to the conversation, I consent. If you speak to me, I will take that as your consent to be recorded. If you do not want to be recorded, do not speak to me." Either way, you've covered both one and two party consent...and you have proof to protect against any false claims of any kind by either party. These recordings MIGHT BE helpful as evidence in a court of law.


----------



## Rus47

Affaircare said:


> Either way, you've covered both one and two party consent...and you have proof to protect against any false claims of any kind by either party. These recordings MIGHT BE helpful as evidence in a court of law.


The recordings OP made of two-way telephone call in his WW car, *neither* party to the conversation was aware they were being recorded. IMO, since he got the confirmation he sought, the recordings and any transcription of them should be destroyed. They now serve no legitimate purpose at all. He knows she is an untruthful cheater, needs to prove nothing to anyone to divorce her. And unless they are in an at fault state, the law cares nothing about adultery. 

Regarding the OM, I would think he can use the info provided by OM's previous squeeze to burn him once the divorce is final and OP's attorney agrees.


----------



## QuestionAssumptions

Hosed89 said:


> I am set with an appointment to see a lawyer on Thursday.


Hope your lawyer visit helps you sort out what you should do.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

QuestionAssumptions said:


> Hope your lawyer visit helps you sort out what you should do.


I'm wondering if his lawyer told him to stop posting here.


----------



## Hosed89

Just a quick update.
The meeting with the lawyer went well. I really liked the lawyer my mom found. I am proceeding down that path.

The voice recordings are not usable where I live for anything other than me knowing the truth. I plan to get rid of them.

I had the kids with me the last 2 nights. My wife has not changed her position. Still admits to only what she knows that I have information on.

No other path forward for us but divorce.

Thanks everyone.


----------



## Hosed89

Tatsuhiko, something very close to that. See the message I just sent you.

Thanks all.


----------



## Rus47

Hosed89 said:


> Tatsuhiko, something very close to that. See the message I just sent you.
> 
> Thanks all.


I suspect that a lot of the betrayed that vanish after visiting their attorney do so on their attorney's advice.

Understandable, controlling communication pathways and keeping strategy private would be key to successfully finishing a case. And, the betrayed should really only listen to the attorney's advise, do what they say and don't do what they say not to do. 

Too easy for a wayward or AP or acquaintance of either to monitor what is being discussed on a public forum. Would seem moving a thread to the private forum would be advisable, believe that is what others have done. The Moderators readily make those moves at OP request. That would also help shield what has already been written in the thread from prying eyes,

Good luck @Hosed89 ! You are moving down the best path with support of your parents and help of a good attorney,


----------



## Megaforce

Rus47 said:


> The recordings OP made of two-way telephone call in his WW car, *neither* party to the conversation was aware they were being recorded. IMO, since he got the confirmation he sought, the recordings and any transcription of them should be destroyed. They now serve no legitimate purpose at all. He knows she is an untruthful cheater, needs to prove nothing to anyone to divorce her. And unless they are in an at fault state, the law cares nothing about adultery.
> 
> Regarding the OM, I would think he can use the info provided by OM's previous squeeze to burn him once the divorce is final and OP's attorney agrees.


I believe the quote from affaircare is referring only to recordings of himself and his wife to protect against false DV charges.


----------



## masterofmasters

Hosed89 said:


> Just a quick update.
> The meeting with the lawyer went well. I really liked the lawyer my mom found. I am proceeding down that path.
> 
> The voice recordings are not usable where I live for anything other than me knowing the truth. I plan to get rid of them.
> 
> I had the kids with me the last 2 nights. My wife has not changed her position. Still admits to only what she knows that I have information on.
> 
> No other path forward for us but divorce.
> 
> Thanks everyone.


i'm curious...what does your wife know that you know of?

you should definitely blow up both of their worlds. i would dangle the truth or her job.


----------



## Jeffsmith35

Hosed89, I'm sorry this happened to you. You should have this thread moved to the Private area, for safety of the information from searchability.


----------



## Sparky282

I would not get rid of them. Keep them safe.

after this is over you could play them for his wife and find the other 2 women’s husbands and let them take care of things.

also you can use them for proof for her parents or her.

id keep them safe for back up. At least until you divorce.

mom so sorry


----------



## Sparky282

I’m so sorry


----------



## oldshirt

Sparky282 said:


> I would not get rid of them. Keep them safe.
> 
> after this is over you could play them for his wife and find the other 2 women’s husbands and let them take care of things.
> 
> also you can use them for proof for her parents or her.
> 
> id keep them safe for back up. At least until you divorce.
> 
> mom so sorry


This^^^^

I would keep them safe, perhaps even kept by a trusted friend or relative. But I would not get rid of them. They may come in useful some day.

they may not be admissible in an actual court, but they would be very helpful for informing the OM’s BS or his employer of what he is doing on school property on school time.

it can also come in handy if your wife’s family is coming after you because they do not believe that she is actually cheating and think you are just being paranoid and being mean to her.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

@MattMatt can you please move to Private to protect our friend? He may also need instructions on locating his thread, as he is new here.


----------



## QuestionAssumptions

Hosed89 said:


> My wife has not changed her position. Still admits to only what she knows that I have information on.


I understand if you can't or don't want to talk about your situation anymore, but I'd be interested in an update about how this turns out, particularly after she finally realizes that she can't bluff her way out of this. Best wishes going forward.


----------



## QuestionAssumptions

oldshirt said:


> they may not be admissible in an actual court, but they would be very helpful for informing the OM’s BS or his employer of what he is doing on school property on school time.


If the recordings are considered illegal where he is, they could potentially sue him for illegally recording them and harming them with the recording, so that would probably be a bad idea unless a lawyer tells him it's OK.


----------



## Jimi007

I would keep the VAR recordings somewhere safe.. definitely don't erase.


----------



## Rus47

QuestionAssumptions said:


> If the recordings are considered illegal where he is, they could potentially sue him for illegally recording them and harming them with the recording, so that would probably be a bad idea unless a lawyer tells him it's OK.


Actually, besides that, there is nothing to be gained from them anymore. He only needed confirmation of info provided by AP's old girlfriend. He is best served getting things over and finished ASAP, focus on getting the D over and done before the WW has time to react. If he forwards the info he was given when the time is right to OM's wife, that is all that is needed.


----------



## Divinely Favored

QuestionAssumptions said:


> If the recordings are considered illegal where he is, they could potentially sue him for illegally recording them and harming them with the recording, so that would probably be a bad idea unless a lawyer tells him it's OK.


That is why employer and other BS gets an anonymous tape with no return address and typed note to who's voices are on the tape. 🙄


----------



## *Deidre*

Here we go again, with plotting revenge. lol

OP - happy to see you like your attorney, and that your parents are so supportive. You know the truth and to me, that's all that matters. You don't need to ''prove'' to others why you're divorcing. They don't have to fully understand, only you do. You have what you need to move on. Stay strong! 🙏


----------



## oldshirt

QuestionAssumptions said:


> If the recordings are considered illegal where he is, they could potentially sue him for illegally recording them and harming them with the recording, so that would probably be a bad idea unless a lawyer tells him it's OK.


Good luck prosecuting that.

I suppose it would be one thing if he called in to a morning radio talk show and played it on air or plastered it all over his Facebook for the whole world to hear, that would be one thing.

But if her parents showed up on his doorstep asking why he was tossing their sweet little darling out into the street and he pulled that out of his pocket and let them hear her and OM with their own ears.

Or if he got in touch with OM’s BW and had her listen to it, nothing is going to come of it in the real world.

It might be one thing if he went completely public on a campaign to destroy their lives and was posting it publicly for the whole world to hear and was clearly trying to malign and defame them. 

But selectively and discretely using that inform select people to back up his assertion of their behavior? No, ain’t nuth’n gonna come from that legally. 

If someone is going to sue him, then he CAN present it publicly for the whole world to hear as it would then become public record.


----------



## jsmart

Hosed89 said:


> Just a quick update.
> The meeting with the lawyer went well. I really liked the lawyer my mom found. I am proceeding down that path.
> 
> The voice recordings are not usable where I live for anything other than me knowing the truth. I plan to get rid of them.
> 
> I had the kids with me the last 2 nights. My wife has not changed her position. Still admits to only what she knows that I have information on.
> 
> No other path forward for us but divorce.
> 
> Thanks everyone.


I’m glad to read that you contacted a lawyer to start the D process. It seems like the one that serves first has an advantage. Not sure if it’s true but I’m sure that it gives you a psychological boost to be in control of your destiny.

The faster you get her served, the better the shock to get her to wake up to what her actions have wrought. Because of right now, she probably been coached to believe that you will cave. Besides her continued lying in the face of the family being separated tells me that she’s in deep wuv.

As for the VAR recordings, you should definitely hold on to them. Not because they’re admissible for leverage in the divorce but because it can be used to expose OM to his wife and to your stbx’ parents. They will still side with their daughter but will not have a hatred towards you for irrationally divorcing their daughter.


----------



## oldshirt

*Deidre* said:


> Here we go again, with plotting revenge. lol
> 
> OP - happy to see you like your attorney, and that your parents are so supportive. You know the truth and to me, that's all that matters. You don't need to ''prove'' to others why you're divorcing. They don't have to fully understand, only you do. You have what you need to move on. Stay strong! 🙏


it doesn’t have to be about revenge. If her parents or siblings show up on his doorstep attacking him as the bad guy for breaking up the family or saying it’s all a misunderstanding or that he’s being paranoid, playing a few seconds or her talking filth with the OM will bring her family down to reality.

The OM’s BS probably knows he’s a philanderer but showing it to her would at least allow her to make an informed decision based on what really is going on between them.

And since some of these sexual encounters were taking place in school grounds, I think he has an actual civic duty to report it to the school district.

I know I wouldn’t want my kid being sent to the broom closet to grab a broom to sweep up something in the classroom and walk in on them banging one out.

Getting down on school property during the school day can border on to an actual criminal offense if it could possibly expose school kids to it. 

i know some will disagree but I think he has a civic duty to report this.

mid this guy is banging all these married staff members, it’s not a huge leap to wonder when he may try to get with a student some day if this isn’t addressed.


----------



## Sparky282

He needs to keep it.

I think he is wise to keep it from her. If she wants to save the marriage she needs to be the one to destroy him. On her own.



she is already trying to portray him as crazy so after the dust has settled I think it would be a good idea to use it to prove he was not crazy and she was lying.

it needs to be voluntary.

also after wards he is going to want some justice.

he should at least keep it as a back up so he has the option.

he won’t get in trouble for it.


----------



## *Deidre*

oldshirt said:


> it doesn’t have to be about revenge. If her parents or siblings show up on his doorstep attacking him as the bad guy for breaking up the family or saying it’s all a misunderstanding or that he’s being paranoid, playing a few seconds or her talking filth with the OM will bring her family down to reality.
> 
> The OM’s BS probably knows he’s a philanderer but showing it to her would at least allow her to make an informed decision based on what really is going on between them.
> 
> And since some of these sexual encounters were taking place in school grounds, I think he has an actual civic duty to report it to the school district.
> 
> I know I wouldn’t want my kid being sent to the broom closet to grab a broom to sweep up something in the classroom and walk in on them banging one out.
> 
> Getting down on school property during the school day can border on to an actual criminal offense if it could possibly expose school kids to it.
> 
> i know some will disagree but I think he has a civic duty to report this.
> 
> mid this guy is banging all these married staff members, it’s not a huge leap to wonder when he may try to get with a student some day if this isn’t addressed.


I'm not saying he shouldn't ever use this information at the right time, but he doesn't need to prove anything to anyone.

He could simply tell everyone that he found out details of her affair through a reliable source. He could even share details with his wife, without giving away how he has that info. I just think he needs to be very careful because sharing these recordings at the wrong time or too soon, could hurt him in the end.


----------



## Divinely Favored

*Deidre* said:


> Here we go again, with plotting revenge. lol
> 
> OP - happy to see you like your attorney, and that your parents are so supportive. You know the truth and to me, that's all that matters. You don't need to ''prove'' to others why you're divorcing. They don't have to fully understand, only you do. You have what you need to move on. Stay strong! 🙏


It is about getting justice.....because of the court system that now robs the BS from the justice they deserve.


----------



## *Deidre*

Divinely Favored said:


> It is about getting justice.....because of the court system that now robs the BS from the justice they deserve.


Agree, but if these recordings aren't legally ''permissible,'' how can they be used as evidence of the affair?


----------



## Megaforce

oldshirt said:


> Good luck prosecuting that.
> 
> I suppose it would be one thing if he called in to a morning radio talk show and played it on air or plastered it all over his Facebook for the whole world to hear, that would be one thing.
> 
> But if her parents showed up on his doorstep asking why he was tossing their sweet little darling out into the street and he pulled that out of his pocket and let them hear her and OM with their own ears.
> 
> Or if he got in touch with OM’s BW and had her listen to it, nothing is going to come of it in the real world.
> 
> It might be one thing if he went completely public on a campaign to destroy their lives and was posting it publicly for the whole world to hear and was clearly trying to malign and defame them.
> 
> But selectively and discretely using that inform select people to back up his assertion of their behavior? No, ain’t nuth’n gonna come from that legally.
> 
> If someone is going to sue him, then he CAN present it publicly for the whole world to hear as it would then become public record.


This is true. I used to practice criminal defense. Prosecutors have way more to worry about than this type of stuff.
And, as mentioned, no one is going to sue and make this public.


----------



## Megaforce

*Deidre* said:


> Agree, but if these recordings aren't legally ''permissible,'' how can they be used as evidence of the affair?


In the vast majority of jurisdictions, infidelity is irrelevant.


----------



## Megaforce

Sparky282 said:


> He needs to keep it.
> 
> I think he is wise to keep it from her. If she wants to save the marriage she needs to be the one to destroy him. On her own.
> 
> 
> 
> she is already trying to portray him as crazy so after the dust has settled I think it would be a good idea to use it to prove he was not crazy and she was lying.
> 
> it needs to be voluntary.
> 
> also after wards he is going to want some justice.
> 
> he should at least keep it as a back up so he has the option.
> 
> he won’t get in trouble for it.


Yeah, keeping them will not hurt him. No one would want to publicize this from her end or OM' s.


----------



## Megaforce

oldshirt said:


> it doesn’t have to be about revenge. If her parents or siblings show up on his doorstep attacking him as the bad guy for breaking up the family or saying it’s all a misunderstanding or that he’s being paranoid, playing a few seconds or her talking filth with the OM will bring her family down to reality.
> 
> The OM’s BS probably knows he’s a philanderer but showing it to her would at least allow her to make an informed decision based on what really is going on between them.
> 
> And since some of these sexual encounters were taking place in school grounds, I think he has an actual civic duty to report it to the school district.
> 
> I know I wouldn’t want my kid being sent to the broom closet to grab a broom to sweep up something in the classroom and walk in on them banging one out.
> 
> Getting down on school property during the school day can border on to an actual criminal offense if it could possibly expose school kids to it.
> 
> i know some will disagree but I think he has a civic duty to report this.
> 
> mid this guy is banging all these married staff members, it’s not a huge leap to wonder when he may try to get with a student some day if this isn’t addressed.


Just report it after the divorce is final. Personally, my civic duty would play no part. I would do it strictly for revenge.


----------



## Megaforce

*Deidre* said:


> Here we go again, with plotting revenge. lol
> 
> OP - happy to see you like your attorney, and that your parents are so supportive. You know the truth and to me, that's all that matters. You don't need to ''prove'' to others why you're divorcing. They don't have to fully understand, only you do. You have what you need to move on. Stay strong! 🙏


It is pretty natural to want revenge or justice, unless you are Ghandi. But, after a while one realizes there will never be justice and seeking revenge is unlikely to give one the peace sought. Life really is unfair. So cheaters go on to happy, prosperous lives.
I read that it is just as tough for people to accept good things happening to bad people as the reverse is( bad things happening to good people).
The betrayed has, unfortunately, just crossed paths with some truly bad people. Put them in the rearview mirror. 

One of the most valuable things I learned from all this was that disordered people walk among us. And, I was terrible at spotting them.
These folks do have tells, give signs. These can be subtle, difficult to spot.
My advice is to try to educate yourself on what to look for. Many of us were too trusting, overly empathetic etc. These disordered folks, both instinctively and intentionally absolutely target people with these qualities.


----------



## Megaforce

Rus47 said:


> Actually, besides that, there is nothing to be gained from them anymore. He only needed confirmation of info provided by AP's old girlfriend. He is best served getting things over and finished ASAP, focus on getting the D over and done before the WW has time to react. If he forwards the info he was given when the time is right to OM's wife, that is all that is needed.


I once had my Xw's writings where she admitted serial cheating with strangers. I got rid off them. 
Sometimes, I wish I had retained them. My kids are grown now and my XW has always maintained that her affairs were strictly emotional. Her writings contradict this, as does a mountain of other evidence.
I used to regret having thrown the writings as I felt they were needed to support the information I told my kids. But, surprisingly, my kids have always believed me, never doubted me.
See, they have observed their mom's behavior throughout the years. They know what she is. Same with my ex in laws. No one ever doubted I had it right.


----------



## *Deidre*

Megaforce said:


> It is pretty natural to want revenge or justice, unless you are Ghandi.


 Agree, that it's human nature to want to see people who have hurt us, reap what they've sown. But, we have to sometimes keep our emotions in check, because acting out of our emotions can backfire. Ask me how I know. lol



> But, after a while one realizes there will never be justice and seeking revenge is unlikely to give one the peace sought. Life really is unfair. So cheaters go on to happy, prosperous lives.


 I've learned from past relationships, men who have really hurt me, ultimately reaped what they had sown. In a very organic way, because cheaters never change, and eventually, they tangle with the wrong person. Or they're just miserable because their lives are just so destructive. I'm not sure narcissists ever really learn, though. They lack the ability to self-reflect. 



> I read that it is just as tough for people to accept good things happening to bad people as the reverse is( bad things happening to good people).
> The betrayed has, unfortunately, just crossed paths with some truly bad people. Put them in the rearview mirror.
> 
> One of the most valuable things I learned from all this was that disordered people walk among us. And, I was terrible at spotting them.
> These folks do have tells, give signs. These can be subtle, difficult to spot.
> My advice is to try to educate yourself on what to look for. Many of us were too trusting, overly empathetic etc. These disordered folks, both instinctively and intentionally absolutely target people with these qualities.


Great insight and advice. 😌


----------



## jsmart

Megaforce said:


> Just report it after the divorce is final. Personally, my civic duty would play no part. I would do it strictly for revenge.


It’s not revenge, it’s punishment. The Punisher reference. But all kidding aside. I’m with you. I guess I must be a petty POS. This guy went after his wife knowing she had 2 young kids at home. Now they will live in a broken home because of what they did to his family. That he did this with other married women who also probably have kids, just makes taking him down so much more important. 

I would be going at exposing both of them to their family but also their jobs. Her having to be called in to the Administration to answer about having sex on school grounds will be a serious wake up that what she did was not glamorous. All those fearing that he will be stuck having to pay alimony or higher child support are incorrect. The courts base their financial decisions on the salary history of both parties. Being temporarily out of work does not change that. 

Even if they don’t lose their jobs, having to shamefully answer to the big wigs should be enough to snap his wife out of her complete infatuation with POS. So I say shed the light of day on these cockroaches. They shouldn’t be walking away from what they did with their heads held high.


----------



## gr8ful1

Under no circumstance should you delete these recordings!! 



QuestionAssumptions said:


> If the recordings are considered illegal where he is, they could potentially sue him for illegally recording them and harming them with the recording, so that would probably be a bad idea unless a lawyer tells him it's OK.


As has been stated, it’s one thing if he builds a web server and places the recordings there for the world to hear. It’s COMPLETELY DIFFERENT if he strategically PLAYS the recording to someone (like perhaps his kids one day if they don’t believe what their mother did and OP’s made out to be the bad guy). If he doesn’t give out copies, just how would anyone prosecute him for it?? At that point it’s just hearsay whether he recorded anything or not.

Let’s just say QuestionAssumptions that you’re right, and the FBI has stood up 1,000 new field agents to seek out those who made recordings without consent. SOMEHOW law enforcement gets a hold of the copy (one that OP is NOT distributing) AND somehow they have evidence OP planted the device (a crap ton of assumptions here). It goes to trial. I’d give it a 1% chance at conviction given the content of the recording and the fact that it was made in a vehicle owned by OP. 

Regarding a private suit, again, it would just be hearsay. Let’s say OP decides to play it (not give it) to his inlaws since they’re calling him a monster, liar, whatever. Then let’s say, for sake of argument, they, or even STBXW tries to sue him. I ask: based on what evidence? The mere testimony of her parents would not be sufficient as it’s only hearsay. 

All this talk about such VAR recordings made in homes/property owned by the one recording being the equivalent to a nuclear bomb in terms of danger is laughable. I have cameras also recording audio all over the perimeter and also inside my house. I guess I should be waiting for the FBI to arrest me as well 🙄

Again OP, common sense: keep the recordings but don’t give any copies to anyone other than your lawyer. I’m sure you know this. Unfortunately many on TAM don’t get it.


----------



## Divinely Favored

*Deidre* said:


> Agree, but if these recordings aren't legally ''permissible,'' how can they be used as evidence of the affair?


It is admissable in the court of opinion of friends, family and employers to air their dirty little secrets.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Megaforce said:


> Just report it after the divorce is final. Personally, my civic duty would play no part. I would do it strictly for revenge.


I can see BOTH reasons working very well, and ZERO reasons to keep their dirty little secret and take any blame for it whatsoever. Consequences.
Of all the folks here who knock revenge, I wonder how many attempted it and of the rest who don't/didn't, how many wish they had.
As far as civic duty goes I would also feel a need to inform the school system, too many variables that would affect others for me not to expose them. My empathy for other human beings would require that and that I not "mind my own business", they made it my business.


----------



## QuestionAssumptions

gr8ful1 said:


> If he doesn’t give out copies, just how would anyone prosecute him for it?? At that point it’s just hearsay whether he recorded anything or not.


I'm not a lawyer and unless you are and are giving legal advice, it's best for him to talk to and listen to his lawyer instead of amateurs (either of us) on a message board. I do think you have a faulty understanding of what "hearsay" means and need to understand "expectation of privacy" better (why you can't legally put cameras in the bathrooms of your house and record what people do in there even though you own the house) but I'll leave it at that, because arguing this any more with you might be to the detriment of the OP. Finally note that the law doesn't always follow "common sense". For example, it continues to boggle my mind from a "common sense" perspective that adultery is irrelevant to divorce settlements in most jurisdictions.

And for the record, personally and morally, I'd love to hear he's destroyed the AP and exposed his wife's lies to everyone but I don't want him to burn himself doing it.


----------



## QuestionAssumptions

Duplicate.


----------



## Divinely Favored

*Deidre* said:


> In a very organic way,


What does "containing carbon" have to do with it. All living things contain carbon and are there for "organic".


----------



## *Deidre*

Divinely Favored said:


> What does "containing carbon" have to do with it. All living things contain carbon and are there for "organic".


☺ I mean it as “natural.” Like karma will come their way, naturally/organically. It doesn’t need a push.


----------



## Divinely Favored

I don't know who come up with using that term that way. 🤣
Back when the term was coined dealing with growing food, organically meant that man made chemical fertilizer was not used. 

Compost, manure etc was used, matter that contained carbon.

So when someone said it developed organically, they are really saying it was falling apart and was really going to shyt. 🤣


----------



## *Deidre*

Divinely Favored said:


> I don't know who come up with using that term that way. 🤣
> Back when the term was coined dealing with growing food, organically meant that man made chemical fertilizer was not used.
> 
> Compost, manure etc was used, matter that contained carbon.
> 
> So when someone said it developed organically, they are really saying it was falling apart and was really going to shyt. 🤣


Whateverrr. 🤣

The CEO of my firm uses it this way when discussing growing the business. 😂


----------



## Jimi007

I wouldn't care if it was legal or not...I would keep the recordings, and use them where applicable. At my discretion


----------



## Casual Observer

QuestionAssumptions said:


> If the recordings are considered illegal where he is, they could potentially sue him for illegally recording them and harming them with the recording, so that would probably be a bad idea unless a lawyer tells him it's OK.


I’d keep the recordings and tell her it’s time to stop playing games, that he has heard recordings “someone” made. That would be entirely truthful and likely very unsettling. She’d no longer have any notion of privacy and she’d tell her AP who would then be broadening his own circle of fear.

And yes, the husbands of the OM’s other affair partners… I believe there’s a duty to inform them. For their safety and agency.


----------



## Evinrude58

This is a case where it would be quite satisfying to see the OP get some justice and at the same time see the karma bus run clean over this serial married woman chaser of an AP and OP’s cheating wife.


----------



## Megaforce

jsmart said:


> It’s not revenge, it’s punishment. The Punisher reference. But all kidding aside. I’m with you. I guess I must be a petty POS. This guy went after his wife knowing she had 2 young kids at home. Now they will live in a broken home because of what they did to his family. That he did this with other married women who also probably have kids, just makes taking him down so much more important.
> 
> I would be going at exposing both of them to their family but also their jobs. Her having to be called in to the Administration to answer about having sex on school grounds will be a serious wake up that what she did was not glamorous. All those fearing that he will be stuck having to pay alimony or higher child support are incorrect. The courts base their financial decisions on the salary history of both parties. Being temporarily out of work does not change that.
> 
> Even if they don’t lose their jobs, having to shamefully answer to the big wigs should be enough to snap his wife out of her complete infatuation with POS. So I say shed the light of day on these cockroaches. They shouldn’t be walking away from what they did with their heads held high.


You know, I agree with you on how spousal support is calculated. Any halfway decent attorney could establish earning capacity even if this specific job was lost. And,, if the termination related to the cheating on school grounds or some other violation stemming from the cheating, it provides the betrayed with an opportunity to make the infidelity relevant as it impacted current earnings.
This is much like when infidelity becomes relevant as it pertains to dissipation of marital,assets to subsidize the cheating.
And, while it is true that the magistrate is not supposed to consider infidelity in most jurisdictions. I know of two cases where it was introduced because of its relevance to dissipation of assets and I am pretty sure it swayed the judge to side, to some extent, with the betrayed.
I used this tactic( my lawyer did) and the spousal maintenance awarded was extremely low and for a much shorter duration than was typical. 
At one point, as we were recessing, the judge caught my eye after this evidence came in and gave me a subtle grin and nod.


----------



## Megaforce

QuestionAssumptions said:


> I'm not a lawyer and unless you are and are giving legal advice, it's best for him to talk to and listen to his lawyer instead of amateurs (either of us) on a message board. I do think you have a faulty understanding of what "hearsay" means and need to understand "expectation of privacy" better (why you can't legally put cameras in the bathrooms of your house and record what people do in there even though you own the house) but I'll leave it at that, because arguing this any more with you might be to the detriment of the OP. Finally note that the law doesn't always follow "common sense". For example, it continues to boggle my mind from a "common sense" perspective that adultery is irrelevant to divorce settlements in most jurisdictions.
> 
> And for the record, personally and morally, I'd love to hear he's destroyed the AP and exposed his wife's lies to everyone but I don't want him to burn himself doing it.


From a strictly legal point, you are absolutely correct, he could get in trouble. I would not chance it. Any disclosure could be done without referencing having recorded. Probably still be pretty effective.
As a practical matter,best not to chance it, although I think it doubtful a cheater would want anymore of the publicity that would flow from either a civisuit or criminal prosecution. 
But, you are right. Why chance anything. Simply reporting it, if there is a desire for revenge or justice would do a decent job


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## SunCMars

Tatsuhiko said:


> I'm wondering if his lawyer told him to stop posting here.


He can ask the MODs to convert and move this thread to the _private _forum.


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## Megaforce

gr8ful1 said:


> Under no circumstance should you delete these recordings!!
> 
> 
> 
> As has been stated, it’s one thing if he builds a web server and places the recordings there for the world to hear. It’s COMPLETELY DIFFERENT if he strategically PLAYS the recording to someone (like perhaps his kids one day if they don’t believe what their mother did and OP’s made out to be the bad guy). If he doesn’t give out copies, just how would anyone prosecute him for it?? At that point it’s just hearsay whether he recorded anything or not.
> 
> Let’s just say QuestionAssumptions that you’re right, and the FBI has stood up 1,000 new field agents to seek out those who made recordings without consent. SOMEHOW law enforcement gets a hold of the copy (one that OP is NOT distributing) AND somehow they have evidence OP planted the device (a crap ton of assumptions here). It goes to trial. I’d give it a 1% chance at conviction given the content of the recording and the fact that it was made in a vehicle owned by OP.
> 
> Regarding a private suit, again, it would just be hearsay. Let’s say OP decides to play it (not give it) to his inlaws since they’re calling him a monster, liar, whatever. Then let’s say, for sake of argument, they, or even STBXW tries to sue him. I ask: based on what evidence? The mere testimony of her parents would not be sufficient as it’s only hearsay.
> 
> All this talk about such VAR recordings made in homes/property owned by the one recording being the equivalent to a nuclear bomb in terms of danger is laughable. I have cameras also recording audio all over the perimeter and also inside my house. I guess I should be waiting for the FBI to arrest me as well 🙄
> 
> Again OP, common sense: keep the recordings but don’t give any copies to anyone other than your lawyer. I’m sure you know this. Unfortunately many on TAM don’t get it.


Well, it is not hearsay for a witness to testify as to having listened to the recordings and having been given this opportunity by the betrayed playing them. That is just direct evidence of what transpired.
And, if nonconsensual recording is illegal, it could be prosecuted or the subject of a civil suit, regardless of the extent to which it was broadcasted . I suppose the extent of damages awarded would be impacted by the extent of dissemination.


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## QuestionAssumptions

Hosed89 said:


> No other path forward for us but divorce.


How are things going? No need for details if the lawyer is advising you against talking about your case going forward. Just hoping you and your kids are doing OK.


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## QuestionAssumptions

@Hosed89 Hoping this New Year goes better for you than the end of last year did. Best wishes for whatever you decided to do.


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## bygone

your wife may have gone one step ahead of you and installed a program on your phone or pc.

what you write here allows them to sync their movements

cheaters check their partner, location, chat, sm, they always know what's on his mind

that you will not disclose the relationship, as they know,


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