# The quick Road to Separation



## dodron1324 (Nov 26, 2017)

Hello, I will start by saying I understand what killed my marriage, My wife and I had our own child together 3 years ago, I am now 26. At the time I was an emotional wreck from my previous arrangement and living with my parents with my 3 year old son who I was awarded custody of. I was scared to tell anyone about my daughter for a year and a half, ( I'm not saying in any way this was right) Still, after all of it came out my wife decided to be with me, we were on and off the year and a half also. Just before I came out about my daughter to everyone, my wife had invited an " abusive" ex over, they ended up sleeping together. I later found out when we both talked about if we had slept with anyone or not, I couldn't understand why she would invite someone who was abusive over but then I found even more by the fact we both had gotten an STI from it, then she informed me that she was raped and there was no bringing it up again. I could never really grasp it or understand it, she just left me in the blink of an eye one night and I didn't hear from her for 2 weeks and then she decided to talk to me and that was the result. I left it alone and moved on from it, fast forward half a year later and we had gotten married, she read books and stuff on websites about how living in a separate house from your husband was great and good for everyone and worked best and insisted that is what she wanted. We tried it for a month, it was very taxing on me as I would have to drop my son off at school then drive to her place to spend time then go to work and then do the same on the way home from work, missing putting my son to bed, she had even gone to far as to ask me to let him live with my parents and I move in with her. After a bunch of fighting and her finally getting that this was wrong we took the plunge and moved in. She had another child from a previous arrangement which the father was abusive and he didn't want us living there and my son didn't want to live there and they would often fight, we would constantly be talking about and fighting over the kids and our parents (she often felt in competition with my step mother to be mom even though my son called her mom) and pretty much everything under the sun. After a while we both decided to go to church, and we enjoyed it, and talked more because of it. She then started talking to two guy friends from her childhood and I was uneasy at first, and then I learned that she was talking to them about the problems in our marriage instead of me and they would insist she divorce me, (This was another fight to get her to see it was wrong to do) She then stopped talking to them stating that they were flirting with her and she was married so she couldn't tolerate that. When we would fight and they would come up she would often say it was because of me she stopped talking to them. Fast forward 3 months and these guys didn't want anything to do with her, no one did, her best friend, the only other person that talked to her besides myself and out kids was her mother and my family, my family was always there when we needed financial help or support or just general help with the kids. She failed her G test twice and blamed me for it, i'm not sure why but I got yelled at the whole way home. Later one she was having thoughts that worry people so we went to a crisis center who said she had
psychosis and a few other problems along with the fact she had PTSD, We decided we needed to go to couples counselling and the church offered to pay for it, we went to our first session, as Christians and our church they didn't believe in divorce. When we came out of the counselling we were talking more then ever about how to improve out marriage, and it even resulted in praising from my wife about us and myself, then one night we were at her mothers and they were both praising us to the moon and back and how perfect we were doing etc. One night as my son had developed anger problems, my wife often told me I had anger problems because I got upset over people not being able to put stuff in the garbage rather then on the floor beside it or on top of it. She got nasty with him and would do stuff to purposefully get a reaction out of him, I stepped in and took over and the next morning I sent him to my brothers for a day as I had an interview to get to and figured they could use some time to cool off. I came back and she said she had prayed on it as she knew it was wrong, that night she had asked me to put my daughter to bed because she was too tired to do so, so I did. After I fell asleep I guess according to her son she got up and went to have a coffee (This was out of the ordinary as she always sleeps through the night and randomly couldn't and rarely left the house or even the bed) the next morning I made her breakfast in bed and went to have a shower, I came out confused as to what happened and asked her about what had happened after I fell asleep and that was the where it started. She took it as an accusation that she was cheating on me and went in for the killing blow, I had grown very insecure with everything that went on previously and she knew it and constantly thought that I thought she was cheating on me, even when I told her I wasn't. Her last few words were that I accused her of cheating so much she might has well of been for the trouble. Then she told me to pack up and get out. She immediately removed me from Facebook, changed her status to separated, called and dropped out of counselling and said I was very abusive, I asked her what all the talk about us being great and the counselling was about and she said that never happened and wasn't true, and arranged for me to have visits with my daughter 1 day a week or 2 days but supervised by her. The first visit was last week and when I came in she had all my stuff packed by the door and gave my daughter her tablet to watch movies instead of the dancing she was doing with me, so my daughter remained glued to it the whole time, I asked for my sweaters and got that she hadn't done laundry so I couldn't get them, for some reason she wouldn't let me upstairs to get my stuff. She hasn't spoken to me that much and when I asked about divorce or separation she said she hasn't had time to file anything as shes had a lot of other drama going on. I've since decided to let her cool off, she blew my Saturday visit off at the last minute today saying my daughter was sick and I'm just kind of at a loss, my son and I don't know what is going on or why. I will admit I wasn't always nice when I thought she was being out of line or unfair, and looking back I did sometimes minimize her feelings of hurt. I'm at the point where I think its pretty much dead in the water. We were married for just over 1 year. 


Now I will say, before I end this. I'm continuing to seek counselling and my wife has left me with an I don't know attitude she often doesn't want to talk about divorce and insists that asking about divorce must mean I want one, we've been through a lot in a year financially and mentally maybe that is taking a toll and that the day before we separated she told me I was never allowed to leave her. Her last words were that she hopes I change. 

Thank you for your time.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Lies, Deception, and Avoidance: the streamlined killers of marriages and committed relationships!*


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## dodron1324 (Nov 26, 2017)

This is true, I still have not figured out why she doesn't want to file for divorce though. I know she wants control, and wants visits to be supervised until a separation agreement is in place but then also doesn't want to get on top of getting that done either.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

There's nothing stopping you from getting the process started.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I agree. 

Start the process.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

@Uptown


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

@Farside, thanks for the call-out. 



> She had even gone to far as to ask me to let [my son] live with my parents and I move in with her.... She got nasty with him and would do stuff to purposefully get a reaction out of him.


Dodron, the most disturbing thing you've written -- by far -- is the outrageous way your W has treated your 6-year-old son. You say she tried to separate you from your own son by trying to persuade you to give him to your parents to raise. Then, after you refused to do that, she would _"get nasty"_ with your young son so as to _"get a reaction out of him."_ This mean-spirited behavior suggests that your W may be very emotionally immature and unstable.



> She said I was very abusive.


She said the same about her exBF, claiming that he had "raped" her. Do you have any reason to believe that her claims about him are any more accurate than her false claims about you?



> Crisis center said she had psychosis and *a few other problems*.


Dodron, what were those "other problems" that the crisis center mentioned? I ask because, when emotional instability lasts for only a year or two, the two most common causes are a strong hormone change and drug abuse. However, you do not mention her having a drug abuse problem and she hasn't been pregnant for three years. Moreover, if I understand you correctly, you apparently are not talking about a _temporary_ instability but, rather, a persistent _lifetime_ instability that may have originated in her childhood. 

The two common causes of lifetime instability are BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and bipolar disorder. So far, you do not seem to be describing a pattern of bipolar symptoms. The psychosis, however, could have been produced by a bipolar manic period. I therefore suggest you take a look at my description of 12 Bipolar/BPD Differences to see if you recognize strong symptoms of bipolar or BPD behavior. What you describe here seems much closer to the red flags for BPD than to those for bipolar.

Specifically, many behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling actions, verbal abuse, easily triggered temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, blaming you for every misfortune (e.g., failing the G exam), and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as temper tantrums.



> Crisis center said... she had PTSD.


Most people suffering from PTSD do not exhibit persistent, strong BPD symptoms. There nonetheless is a strong association between those two disorders. A recent study of nearly 35,000 American adults found that 27% of the women suffering from PTSD in the past year also exhibit full-blown BPD. It also found that nearly 40% of the women exhibiting full-blown BPD also suffered from PTSD in the past year. See Table 2 at 2008 Study in JCP.

Of course, learning to spot BPD warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for a stroke or heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid staying in a toxic marriage and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her.

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of _18 BPD Warning Signs_ to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _Maybe's Thread_. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join *Farside* and the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Dodron.


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## dodron1324 (Nov 26, 2017)

@Uptown Hello, So my wife was diagnosed with PTSD when she was younger because she was raped when she was younger and her mother has DID Identity disorder, the crisis center said she has psychosis, her PTSD was up again because of stress, She has auditory hallucinations, and visual, on the way back from the clinic she had a break down because she forgot where she was. Also her son has ADHD, sensory processing disorder and a few other things to be diagnosed and the doctor said he was such a handful that the chemical the brain pumps out for happiness was depleted in her and couldn't be restored without drugs. she however does not do any other drugs other then what is prescribed by her doctor, she goes through phases of self destructive, kicking me out on and off for a year or more and often says i have mood swings or bi-polar in our 1 year of marriage she admitted she was wrong twice and the rest was me apologizing even if I didn't think I was the problem. She can never stay committed to anything, I'll say in her entire life of existence, being married to me and living in our marital home were the longest shes done anything, usually she tries to go vegan or various things but never commits, some days she doesn't even leave bed. I understand these are all red flags, I just never really linked them to anything and spent so much time being told I was the monster I believed it. Some of this wasn't even diagnosed until after we were married. I will also add, that once my wife had me in the picture and the in-laws that came with it, it was often Me doing everything to make her happy and when it wasn't done or I refused it was abuse or me being cruel or mean. I will admit, I became very insecure because of all the flags and she had instilled in the beginning that She could drop me cold flat when she wanted to and then later on got annoyed that I worried about it so much. She would even tell me fights and stuff never happened or good events never happened and then accused me of gas lighting her, she has a very big issue with control I know that, she often thought she was competing with my step mother over who was the mother or step mother of my son, even if my step mom just said hi, or you know gave us a loan of $600 to help out and then my wife kicked me out and didn't have to pay back. Its fairly confusing. She's stuck to bible study and being a Christian when she doesn't go to church on Sundays she's very hard to please she also seems to find posts and sayings to drill her further from me. I asked her why she stopped wearing her ring and she told me to watch bruce almighty? Oh the other thing I was going to mention was that she was always positive that the problem in our house was always myself my step son and my son always the males as she would say, my son started copying my step sons behaviour and she would associate and say the two had the exact same problem.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

> I understand these are all red flags, I just never really linked them to anything and spent so much time being told I was the monster I believed it.


Dodron, if you've been married to a W exhibiting strong BPD traits for a year, consider yourself lucky that you're only feeling confused. Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater "crazy-making" effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths. 

This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the _one most notorious _for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.

If you would like to discuss this further, it would be helpful if you would tell us which of the 18 BPD Warning Signs are very strong and which do not apply at all. Based on what you've said, I suspect you will find most of these red flags to sound very familiar.


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## dodron1324 (Nov 26, 2017)

@Uptown

1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;

Anytime I had a difference of opinion I automatically became "all bad" as you say, like I was a monster, I wanted to do a budget and didn't want to spend money and sudenly because she wanted to spend $100 on bibles I became financially controlling.

2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"

Very frequent it was I am always rude or cruel or abusive and I never apologized or cared or I always meant to say something even if I was just asking a question. For instance, I asked what happened after I fell asleep she said I always accuse her of cheating on me.

3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;

She was adamant and even told our marriage counselor I have an unhealthy relationship with my parents because I lived with them, and they supported me no matter what while her family abandoned her. Regardless of what my parents said, she always made it into a her vs them. For a year before we lived together I was stuck in a tug of war battle between her and my step mom, if I did anything my step mother asked me to do my wife was mad at me, if I did it the other way my son suffered and my step mom wasn't happy.

4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;

I often worked 10-12 hours a day 6 days a week sometimes and would come home to her being bent over the stove watching netflix on her phone while kids were screaming or getting in to things, daughter ripping laundry everywhere or dumping 4lbs bag of flower all over, and she would say " I watched them all day and all you did was work, so you get to deal with all 3 and I am going to do what ever I want" 

5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;

I always walked on eggshells, even while I was at work, the slightest word wrong or something the kids were doing at home that I couldn't deal with because I was at work she would be mad that I didn't come home to help. She would often like to remind me how she could have been a doctor if it wasn't for the kids or how she regretted marrying me ( I will admit as i've told her I have never regretted marrying her)

6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;
She often just got upset and told me because I was being an A**hole or that she missed her brother and sister which haven't talked to her in 10 years.

7. Low self esteem;
She suffered from this a lot, I think me more then her as she had a lot of moments where she would do everything.

8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;

I remember having a nightmare one night randomly and she got mad at me for it, most of her tantrums were non-verbal shunning they lasted days, sometimes she'd just go in to them and I wouldn't know until days later.

9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;

We have been on and off for 3 years with her always initiating separation or kicking me out or every time it came to us moving in she would change her mind. She always expected me there when she texted.

10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;

She was always the victim I was or am always the abuser, she has said this about several exes and kids.

11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);

She has no impulse control at all, she went and got 4 cats and 2 dogs to add to the craziness and has a problem with upgrading her phone all the time to the newest model and a problem with going to the store for something and coming back with $200 worth of junk food.

12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;

Still does to this day, although now i'm on that list too.

13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"

Yeah, she pretty much enjoyed everything I did or wanted to do and now she wants me to change all of that to what she wants.

14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;

She hasn't been able to keep to anything, jogging, managing money, or training the dogs, she never finishes.

15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;

She doesn't do any calming down she just shuts down all together and dissociates I believe the doctor calls it 

16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);

He select few friends are either the guys I don't want her telling about the marriage or girls who have been diagnosed with bi-polar they talk on and off most of the time mad at each other.

17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; 

this is one of the biggest things I noticed is that whoever she talked to ( my sister in-law) who was complaining about me and my brothers, she then developed that personality on the way home, she would always changed based on who she was around, I never knew what to expect. 

18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she often "rewrites history" because she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.

She often changed the way things went and told me I was just gas lighting her, often I'd just give up the fight because there was children around or I felt crazy.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> @Uptown


I was typing this very thing.

My goodness.

A "few other problems" - indeed.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Dodron, you apparently have identified all 18 of the BPD warning signs as being strong. Please keep in mind that, if your W does exhibit a strong and persistent pattern of BPD behaviors as you describe, she likely has one or two other PDs as well. Most BPDers (i.e., those with strong BPD traits) also exhibit strong traits of another PD too (e.g., narcissism, OCPD, or sociopathy). In addition, most of them also exhibit at least one "clinical disorder" such as PTSD, depression, anxiety, ADHD, or panic disorder.



> Regardless of what my parents said, she always made it into a her vs them. For a year before we lived together I was stuck in a tug of war battle between her and my step mom, if I did anything my step mother asked me to do my wife was mad at me.


If she is a BPDer as you suspect, her fear of abandonment is so great that she likely will misperceive your desire to visit family and friends as you choosing THEM over HER. My BPDer exW, for example, was very jealous of time I spent with my foster son and other members of my own family.



> She told me that she watched the kids all day and "all you did was work, so you get to deal with all 3 and I am going to do what ever I want.


If she is a BPDer, you will find it impossible to build up a lasting store of good will on which you can draw during the hard times. Like that of a young child, a BPDer's perception of reality is almost fully determined by how she's feeling AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME. Because she is unable to regulate her own emotions, she frequently experiences feelings so intense that she is convinced they MUST be true, i.e., must reflect reality accurately. She is too immature to intellectually challenge those feelings. Hence, regardless of what sacrifices you've made for her in the past, her perception of you will be dictated by what you've done today or yesterday.



> Most of her tantrums were non-verbal shunning they lasted days, sometimes she'd just go in to them and I wouldn't know until days later.


Whereas most BPDers usually express their anger outwardly in the form of verbal abuse and yelling, some BPDers will instead punish their partners by withdrawing into an icy silence and making passive aggressive snide remarks.



> We have been on and off for 3 years with her always initiating separation or kicking me out or every time it came to us moving in she would change her mind.


 BPDer relationships are notorious for having multiple breakups. A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth of them (23%) -- like your relationship -- went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll.

This repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back occurs because the BPDer's two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- lie at the opposite ends of the _very same_ spectrum. This means you are always in a lose/lose situation because, as you back away from one fear to avoid triggering it, you will start triggering the fear at the other end of that same spectrum.

Hence, as you move close to a BPDer to comfort her and assure her of your love, you will start triggering her engulfment fear, making her feel like she's being suffocated and controlled by you. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you will find that you've started triggering her abandonment fear. And, sadly, there is no midpoints solution (between "too close" and "too far away") where you can safely stand to avoid triggering her two fears. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years searching for that Goldilocks position, which simply does not exist.



> She was always the victim I was or am always the abuser, she has said this about several exes and kids.


Because a BPDer has such a fragile, weak sense of who she is, the closest thing to a lasting self identity that she has is the false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." Hence, if your W is a BPDer, she will tolerate you being in the relationship only as long as you continue to "validate" that false self image. There are two ways to do this. During the brief courtship period, you did it by being "The Rescuer" who rode in on a white horse to save her from unhappiness. You were allowed to play this role because her infatuation convinced her that you are the nearly perfect man.

Once the infatuation started to fade, however, she no longer perceived of you as "The Rescuer." Instead, she started seeing you as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of her unhappiness and every misfortune. As long as you continue apologizing and taking the blame for everything, she likely will be content to continue the marriage because she has a powerful desire to "validate" her false self image. Hence, you should not be surprised that she has not yet filed for divorce. Nor should you be surprised when she returns and starts love bombing you again to pull you back into the marriage.



> She doesn't do any calming down she just shuts down all together and *dissociates* I believe the doctor calls it.


If she is a BPDer, dissociation is to be expected. Indeed, one of the 9 defining symptoms for BPD is _"Having severe dissociative symptoms, such as feeling cut off from oneself, observing oneself from outside the body, or losing touch with reality."
_
Although this term sounds weird and strange, keep in mind that all adults do mild dissociation many times each day. Do you remember the time you were driving and suddenly realized you could not recall seeing anything during the past ten miles -- not even the three lighted intersections you drove through? 

Well, that's a mild example of dissociation. What happened was that, while your conscious mind was dreaming a thousand miles away, your subconscious was driving you through traffic and stopping the car for three intersections. The same thing happens when you go to the kitchen and, on opening the refrigerator door, suddenly realize you have no idea what you intended to get. Again, your conscious mind was a thousand miles away while your subconscious was carefully walking you around furniture and into the kitchen.

When dissociation becomes a bit stronger, you may have brief periods where you feel fake and not a part of your own body. Indeed, you may even feel at times like you are somehow "outside" your body. Moreover, when dissociation is very strong, a person's personality is so fractured that -- although she has only one personality -- she will appear to have "multiple personalities." When dissociation is that strong, the behavior pattern is called "Dissociative Identity Disorder" or "DID" (what once was called "Multiple Personality Disorder"). 

Significantly, BPDers do not have DID. I mention DID only because BPDers generally do experience dissociation more often and more intensely than most other people -- with the result that a BPDer's partner may sometimes feel he's living with a person who is half way to having multiple personalities. Strictly speaking, however, BPDers are not considered to be half way to having DID.



> When I asked about divorce or separation she said she hasn't had time to file anything.... I've since decided to let her cool off.


Dodron, it sounds like you are unwilling to divorce her at this time. If you change your mind, let us know and I will be glad to point you to a number of online resources about divorcing a BPDer -- and about how to co-parent with a BPDer after you have divorced. This information is invaluable because, if your W is a BPDer, the divorce almost certainly will get very nasty very quickly -- and she likely will try using the kids to punish you. 

Regardless of whether you intend to divorce or not, it would be prudent to obtain a VAR (Voice Activated Recorder) to carry in your shirt pocket. If your W is a BPDer, there is a good chance she will fight you by trying to get you arrested for "brutalizing" her -- as my exW did to me (putting me in jail for three days). Because BPDers usually believe the outrageous allegations coming out of their mouths, they can be very convincing to a policeman. Similarly, they can be very convincing to Child Protective Services when trying to deny you custody of the child you two had together.


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## dodron1324 (Nov 26, 2017)

@Uptown, that all sounds horrible.. So there is really no hope for anything good? 

I mean we just separated 11 days ago so its still kind of fresh which is why I probably can't come to terms, I asked her why she wasn't wearing her ring and she told me to watch Bruce Almighty? Any Idea what that would mean? :|


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

dodron1324 said:


> So there is really no hope for anything good?


I don't know because, not having met the young lady, I don't know how strong her BPD traits are. Yet, if you decide that her BPD symptoms are strong and persistent, you should realize that it is rare for such a person to have the self awareness and ego strength required for doing well in therapy. 

How serious the problem is depends not only on how strong the traits are but also on whether they are _persistent_, i.e., a full lifetime problem. Most occurrences of strong BPD traits are only temporary flareups of the BPD traits we all have. These flareups nearly always are caused by drug abuse or, most commonly, by a hormone change -- e.g., puberty, pregnancy, postpartum, PMS, or perimenopause (or any other life event starting with the letter "P," LOL).

If serious hormone and drug problems can be ruled out, the remaining common cause of strong BPD traits is a stunted emotional development, i.e., something occurring before age five that caused her emotional development to freeze at the level of a young child. This is a far more serious problem because it is results in BPD traits that are permanent unless the BPDer undergoes years of intensive therapy to acquire the emotional skills that the rest of us learned in childhood. 

The BPDer needs to learn, for example, how to do self soothing, how to regulate all of her emotions, how to avoid black-white thinking by tolerating strong mixed feelings, how to trust, how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as self-evident "facts," and how to stay aware of the present instead of escaping through daydreams into the past and future. Absent those skills, she must continue to rely on the primitive ego defenses used by young children: e.g., projection, denial, temper tantrums, magical thinking, and black-white thinking.

Significantly, if your exGF's strong BPD traits are really persistent, you likely will find evidence in her past history. Persistent traits typically start showing very strongly in the early teens and remain strong thereafter. Yet, because the vast majority of BPDers are high functioning, they usually show their strong BPD traits only to their partners, very close friends, and a few family members. Those usually are the only people who can trigger the BPDer's great fear of abandonment and engulfment.



> I asked her why she wasn't wearing her ring and she told me to watch Bruce Almighty? Any Idea what that would mean?


Can't help you there. I only recall that, at the start of the movie, all that Bruce's GF wants is a wedding ring and children. Toward the end of the movie, however, she no longer values the ring and asks God to help her stop loving Bruce so she can leave him. My wild guess, then, is that your W may have been telling you that she is tired of the R/S and wants to fall out of love with you. 

Yet, regardless of what she really meant, that is how she felt at that moment in time. It tells you little about how she feels about you today. If she is a BPDer, she can flip between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (hating or devaluing you) in ten seconds when you trigger one of her two fears. And then, a few hours or days later, she can flip back again just as quickly. 

This black-white thinking occurs because a BPDer is too emotionally immature to handle strong conflicting feelings simultaneously. Hence, like a young child, a BPDer will subconsciously put the conflicting feeling out of reach of her conscious mind. In that way, she only has to deal with one set of strong feelings (e.g., love or hate). Young children do these flips several times a day for that very reason.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

dodron,

Uptown is great at this, as you can tell.

Ask him about the traits he's witnessed in HIS significant other. She still clings to her fantasies about their relationship.


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## dodron1324 (Nov 26, 2017)

@Uptown @ReturntoZero

I had to drop off some papers to my wife today, and she explained to me that there was no significance to the movie, and that we are separated so she didn't have to wear her ring. She told me court can wait as shes already battling her ex again for custody, and that she knows I want to get it over with but it can wait. I also said I was naive and didn't think divorce was on the table because she wouldn't talk about it which is when she said " I don't want to talk about it. You keep bringing it up" 

That was pretty much my day.

She was worried when I stopped by that I was serving her papers, what i'm not getting is, do I somehow magically serve her papers? I'm not sure what the next step is..

Oh and she said she hasn't filed for a speedy divorce on grounds of adultery or abuse because abuse is hard to prove even though she kicked me out saying I was abusive. 

any insight?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Take control and drive the divorce. She says that's what she wants, we give defiant people what they say they want.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

dodron1324 said:


> @Uptown @ReturntoZero
> 
> I had to drop off some papers to my wife today, and she explained to me that there was no significance to the movie, and that we are separated so she didn't have to wear her ring. She told me court can wait as shes already battling her ex again for custody, and that she knows I want to get it over with but it can wait. I also said I was naive and didn't think divorce was on the table because she wouldn't talk about it which is when she said " I don't want to talk about it. You keep bringing it up"
> 
> ...


Just hire a lawyer and he will have her served. 

Just about everything else she said was babble and most of it you shouldn't even be listening to. She has you set up in the lose/lose game. Don't file and you,leave control of this to her and her whims, file and your the bad guy because she will spin it that you pushed for it and she tried to save it....the victim chair. 

She also doesn't believe you will file and if you don't your going to be stuck in this mess for months. Allowing her the power to decide is what she wants and she will jerk you back and forth like a yo yo.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

dodron1324 said:


> Oh and she said she hasn't filed for a speedy divorce on grounds of adultery or abuse because abuse is hard to prove even though she kicked me out saying I was abusive. Any insight?


Dodron, as I noted above, a BPDer has a powerful desire to "validate" her false self image of being "The Victim." Hence, you should not be surprised that she has not yet filed for divorce. Nor should you be surprised when she returns and starts love bombing you again to pull you back into the marriage. This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is titled, _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!

_Of course, if you choose to remain in a toxic marriage with a BPDer, the abusive behavior will follow on the heels of the love bombing. This means you will have to resume your role of accepting blame, being "The Perpetrator," so as to validate her false self image. And, in an attempt to minimize the temper tantrums and icy withdrawals, you will resume being VERY careful about what you say and do. Indeed, you likely will modify your behavior so much that you will start to forget who you really are. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book is titled, _Stop Walking on Eggshells_.


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