# not sure what to do??



## gettingstrongereveryday (May 1, 2012)

My husband of 10 years has always struggled with anxiety and depression - which is usually under control with medication however he has always been extremely jealous of anyone (particularly men) who I talk to - even co-workers. Last summer he suffered a major health issue diverticulitis attack which resulted in a sepsis infection - he was hospitalized for 20 days. I was by his side every minute and he thanked me constantly but since his recovery he has been in a constant state of anger and depression "pouting" - our son is 10 and is always asking me why is Dad so mad at us, every time I want to break down in tears because I honestly don't know how to answer him. It has been almost a year of this now and I'm almost completely spent, exhausted and ready to give up. Every time I try to talk to him about it he just says that he has his own issues going on and he can't deal with mine?? So I have been dealing with it for a year and recently he finally agreed to go on a family/friend day trip to the river - it was fine but I noticed that he was his old self with our friends, joking and actually cracking a smile...but he never spoke to me or our son the entire day? I was so upset, but of course didn't know what to say or how to approach it, so last night I sat down with him and explained everything how I felt like he is okay with everyone else but angry all of time at home – he just blew it off and said we were talking in circles and the conversation was pretty much over...so now I'm stuck - do I try to talk to him again or is it time to end this? I also worry about sharing custody, when he gets really angry he calls me terrible things to family members, the thought of him doing that in front of our son terrifies me but on the other hand what kind of example am I setting for my son showing him that it's basically okay for me to be treated this way, I love my husband he was my best friend and I feel like it's all gone now.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

people with depression will hide it from certain people, so dont take too much stock in the fact he seems fine with friends and not with you unless there is some underlying issue you havent told us yet.

how willing has he been with going to a psychiatrist or other professional help?


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## Cort (May 2, 2012)

My fiance also deals with depression, and I deal with anxiety. They go hand in hand, but I don't really experience depression and he doesn't really have anxiety. But I agree with Almostrecovered. People who deal with these things hide them from certain people. He is closest with you than anyone, therefore, he isn't afraid to show you the "real" him. I do the same thing. My co-workers do not see my anxiety, even though all day I'm super anxious and upset over something, I can hide behind a smile and good mood. Totally fake. When I talk to my fiance, he gets the real deal. It's nothing personal to him, I just know I can't hide it from him. My fiance went through a very bad time right before we met, and ended up in the hospital because of his depression. He went to a psychiatrist and got medicated and is much better. But here recently, the past 2 months or so, I noticed he wasn't himself. He was extremely moody with me, short with my son, just a jerk. It was really starting to upset me because he's always treated me like a queen. It started causing terrible fights, and I was so confused. He was so hateful to us, especially to me, and told him he didn't want to be with me anymore and just said HATEFUL terrible things. Well, that just ignited my anxiety so we were nothing but a mess. After hours of screaming and crying, we were able to calm things down. The next day, I sat him down and talked to him. I asked him what is going on, and asked him if he had been taking his meds. Found out, he wasn't, and he hadn't been taking them for a couple of months because of the sexual side effects. He told him they made him feel less of a man sexually like he couldn't satisfy me, which is CRAZY! I told him if he didn't take his meds, he wouldn't have me to satisfy because I couldn't stick around that kind of emotional abuse. I had already been in a very bad marriage before and I've learned my lesson. So, he has started taking his meds again and it's amazing, the difference! He's back to himself and we haven't fought one time. Not even argued. Before, I couldn't say anything without him attacking me. I think the first step your husband needs to take if he hasn't already is to talk to a professional. Maybe if he's on meds, they aren't the right ones. I've been through that as well.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

Has your husband seen anyone for his depression? Is he on anything for it?
Have you considered recording him treating you and your son like **** on some instances and then playing it back to him at a later time so he can see how bad he really is? Or record him being that way and then record your son talking about how it makes him feel when his dad acts like that. Maybe he will Finally see he needs some serious help.

Another option is giving him the ultimatum of getting help or separating from you while you decide what's best for you and your son. Whatever you do, do it sooner than later before your son ends up being affected by your husbands attitude long term. If your hubby won't go to counseling maybe you and your son go for your own benifit.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

What are his reasons for acting like this? You just brushed it off like he was being irrational. My guess is you are doing the same thing when he is telling you, hence the circles comment and his frustration.

What is he actually saying? Are you really trying to understand him or just make him out to be crazy?


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## gettingstrongereveryday (May 1, 2012)

He refuses all offers of seeking help, I have told him that counseling seems like the best alternative for us - but he flat out refuses it. I was thinking about making an appointment for myself and seeing if he would then come with me....not sure how that would turn out.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

gettingstrongereveryday said:


> He refuses all offers of seeking help, I have told him that counseling seems like the best alternative for us - but he flat out refuses it. I was thinking about making an appointment for myself and seeing if he would then come with me....not sure how that would turn out.


You didn't answer the question. What is he saying is the reason he's acting like this? What is his complaint?

You say, "Why are you ignoring your wife and son?" and he says "???"

He's obviously saying something as you had a disagreement about it. I don't see any attempt from your side to understand what he's feeling. I'm not saying your wrong, or that he's acting rationally or anything like that. Just, a lack of empathy.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

gettingstronger, I'm cutting and pasting what you posted in Leah's thread

[posted originally by gettingstronger]


> My husband and i have been going through the exact same thing, we have been married for 11 years (we married young 20 + 21) and he and I have always have co-worker "friends" that we text and FB - we also have always had a wonderful relationship.
> 
> However, recently a new woman 38, married to a 28 year old and have 5 year old twins started working at his his office.
> 
> ...


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

gettingstronger--now your original thread makes sense. You were originally posting about your husband's anxiety and depression. COguy asked some questions that you never answered.

Thanks to your posts in Leah's thread (which I've cut and pasted here with your understanding that I'd do so), we have a broader picture.

We have:

1. a husband who is extremely jealous of you when you talk to male co-workers

2. constant state of [inexplicable] anger and depression "pouting" 

3. this is unlike him--he was not this way before (at least not this extreme)

4. this has been going on for a year

5. he was your best friend, now he calls you terrible names in front of family members

6. recently a new woman 38, married to a 28 year old and have 5 year old twins started working at his office

7. recently with friends you saw his "old" self that he never shows you any more, on a river trip

8. this woman was on this river trip

9. his texting to her is "constant - while we were at home in the evening and on the weekend sometimes every hour!"

10. last night you were sitting by the pool relaxing and he got a text message from her. She did this even though "he had talked to his co-worker about not texting him about anything but work and only at home if was a "work" emergency"

11. she texted him last night saying that her husband was being so mean to her and she went for a walk by herself because she felt so alone blah,blah,blah


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Now just my thoughts after reading all the various things you posted--

It is 100% inappropriate for a married man to be texting "constantly" to a married female work colleague when he's at home, every hour on the hour, about her private marital affairs.

He may have told you that she's not to text him about non-work stuff at home, but right in front of you he makes no effort to shut her down. This means he probably didn't put much, if any, effort to prevent these communications.

I'm going to quote from His Needs, Her Needs for Parents, by Dr. Harley, a well-known marriage counselor who specializes in healing from infidelity:



> We all need to know that someone cares for us, and people commonly express that care through affection. When you hug someone, you send them a message: "You're important to me, and I'll care for you." Hugs that are given to friends, relatives, children, pets, and even stuffed animals, can communicate a simple message of care.
> 
> But intimate affection goes much further. It communicates the care needed in a romantic relationship. *Studies have shown that one of the quickest ways to make someone fall in love with you is to say you care for them and then prove it by the way you treat them.* That's because intimate affection meets a very important emotional need, especially in women.
> 
> ...


You--and your husband--may say in return after reading this passage, but he hasn't told her that he cares for her. To which I say, bs. He has repeatedly, for hours and hours and hours by now, listened patiently as she stabbed her young husband in the back for all his marital peccadillos. This is intimate affection in a nutshell: he is sexually attracted to women, she is a woman, she is betraying her marriage by sharing secrets from her marriage and tearing down her husband to a person who should have no part of that, and he is doing nothing to stop her.

In fact, I strongly suspect he's encouraging this behavior. He is thoroughly enjoying rescuing his work colleague and he derives all kinds of emotional satisfaction from listening to her woes.

Your advice to Leah was to stop reading the texts between her husband and his coworker. Do you read the texts? Is he open with his computer and phone? How much of this do you read? He is texting her so much--how do you know all of the things that they say to each other?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Ok. It looks like your WH is in a full blown Emotional Affair (EA). The OW is a coworker thats using a typical ploy: She claims to be in an abusive relationship and needs him to save her and be a shoulder to cry on. And like many wayward husbands (WH) he has the Knight In Shining Armor (KWIM) syndrome and wants to save her. Expose the affair to the Other Woman's Husband (OWH) and you WH must go No Contact (NC). Preferably one of them must leave the job if NC is to be maintained.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I should have added, my husband's EA was just the same. Co-worker in a loveless marriage.

Except, my husband hid his texting with her not long after the period of intense texting in front of me. (Before that he claimed he was including a male work colleague in joint texts. I never asked to read even one text between them.)

I discovered their full-blown soulmate relationship when I found a secret email acct open on our computer; that was about 1.5 YEARS into the relationship.

So much for the theory of not reading their texts because it will just drive you crazy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gettingstrongereveryday (May 1, 2012)

iheartlife, thank you so very much for taking the time to sort through all of my various posts!

To answer your question, no - i haven't read one email or text, and I have been tempted BUT it just doesn't feel right.....but after reading all of your advice I wonder if it's time I find out what is really going on.

I can't keep living in a marriage where it will be in the back of my mind always wondering if there was or is more.

How did you and your husband overcome this? did he or she move jobs? did you go the counseling?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Well--as far as me not reading my husband's texts--you have to understand, it never once entered my mind to do so. He was never even close to acting as suspiciously as your husband is. I strongly suspected an affair, as I said, but I never dreamed it was with this particular co-worker. I discovered the affair because of an open secret email acct on our home computer.

It's important to understand that most emotional affairs start unintentionally. Yes, some people seek them out. But they are very insidious because they develop from otherwise innocent relationships. Discussing private marital stuff with a co-worker breaks down the usual work colleague barriers. It creates an "us" between the two people. From there, falling in love is just a step or two away. 

"Falling in love" is not the deep bond that you'd need before you married someone. It's infatuation, but the emotions are powerful and they feel AWESOME. Most married people have not felt that way in an extremely long time and it is a huge ego-boost and wonderful in every way.

When I discovered my husband's secret email account, he had already quit his job with the co-worker. She also had a new job.

If they had continued to work together, one or the other would have had to quit their jobs. Once they are in an actual emotional affair, they cannot go back to just being friends. It's no different from an ex-BF or ex-GF. You shared something, you went a ways down a road together, and you will always have a bond.

My H and I are not examples to follow on how to break up an affair. That's because like you, I was so trusting. After DD#1 I never asked for his phone. I never dreamed of installing a VAR (voice-activated recorder) because I'd never heard of using one. If I had done that ONE thing--installed a recorder--I would have discovered that just a few weeks after DD#1--at the very START of MC--he was right back in touch with her.

Emotional affairs are powerful compulsions / habits, some say addictions. They are lots and lots of fun and in general people do not give them up because their spouse is outraged or deeply wounded. Those reactions--like you getting up in the huff--they worked for little things like not taking out the garbage again. For an emotional affair, getting huffy is like throwing a stick at a tank. It doesn't just bounce off--the people in the tank don't hear the stick when it hits the tank.

You should educate yourself about emotional affairs. The book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass is such an eye-opener.

Your husband's constant inappropriate all-hours texting is a huge, huge red flag. Coupled with the bajillion other red flags--the irritability and the personality change being up at the top--odds are he is in knee-deep with this lady already.

But, you have no way of knowing one way or another. I'm guessing it's because if you asked to read the texts, he'd get in your face and yell at you and tell you to shove it down your throat. Or some approximation of that. Am I right at all about that?


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## Leahcar1985 (Apr 21, 2012)

How long has the texting been going on? Just curious as to why you didn't mention it in your original post, yet has significance since you are at your breaking point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gettingstrongereveryday (May 1, 2012)

Leahcar1985 said:


> How long has the texting been going on? Just curious as to why you didn't mention it in your original post, yet has significance since you are at your breaking point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi Leah (and ihearlife), I took a break from this site because I wondered if it was hurting more than it was helping (you know, fueling the emotional fire that is my life) The constant texting started shortly after his major mood swings at home with me and our son and approximately 3 months after she started working with him (she is fairly new to the company). I found out something very interesting about her from a mutual friend that works in their department, she used to manage a restaurant and was let go because of a sexual harassment claim that came up from a (male, married) co-worker. This really startled me and that is what really started my journey on realizing that my husband had officially checked out of our marriage and wants to pursue a relationship with her. Him and I have had three major talks since I last posted, he said he never thought that I would want to separate, he said he was shocked and that I would regret losing this marriage over a delusion that I am having that he is having an affair. I explained that even if there has been nothing physical, this is an EA – I have been researching this and it’s a classic example. There is no indication that either one of them will be leaving their jobs anytime soon so they will be together 5 days week and honestly I’m done. It hurts more than anything to think that I am giving up 11 years (and 10 years married) but, I honestly don’t see what more I can do. I have offered counseling, he refuses – and I have explained my feelings over and over – he refuses to see my side. He wants to do what he wants when he wants and has no remorse for my feelings and I simply cannot put up with it. 

I also want to apologize for high jacking your thread Leah, never meant to do that – I wanted to communicate with you because I felt we shared a common experience and iheartlife was trying to help me out.

Bottom line, I have to focus on myself and my son – I have a pretty good family and friend support team and they all are backing me up (even his Dad and brother!) I have so much going on in my life right now to focus on – I’m close to finishing my BS in Computer Information Systems and I would like to start living for me and be happy again!

I saw your update and I am really happy for you! I’m glad your husband made the right decision and realized how important your marriage is, any more updates?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

gettingstronger, just wanted to let you know I saw this and will answer when I can. Sending you some hugs, it sounds like you need that and a whole lot more.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I'll be honest, gettingstronger, I am proud of you for being able to see the truth. Researching the OM or OW is always a good idea. A lot of people walk around with stuff they don't want others to know--criminal backgrounds, multiple marrages, bankruptcies, all kinds of things they'd rather you not know.

You've refused to try to read his messages with her, if I understand correctly. That might have given you the evidence to wake him out of this. But, perhaps not. Frequently Wandering Spouses (WSs) continue their denial and only the wakeup call of filing divorce gets them to confront the truth of their betrayal.

Threats of divorce don't work, BTW.

Just realize that filing for divorce is _not_ the same thing as achieving divorce. It can be slowed down, delayed, or retracted. It may take this to get him to agree to counseling. You would be very far from alone if that were the case.

I still would see how much additional concrete evidence I could collect about the OW and her relationship with your husband. I realize you've preferred to take the high road, and this may make you feel better, but not having this has meant you've been fighting this affair with one hand tied behind your back.

If you managed to get him to go to counseling, you will need a counselor who is VERY savvy and trained in handling infidelity. I found our excellent counselor via referral from sex / porn addiction therapists, my husband is neither but these therapists are very familiar with escapist behaviors and infidelity. They won't let your husband pull the wool over their eyes (like many MCs do!).


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## gettingstrongereveryday (May 1, 2012)

iheartlife, it has been really difficult to face the scary reality that we have a long and difficult road ahead of us splitting all of the assets and figuring out all of the details however, I feel empowered and smart (I know that sounds silly) but I feel like I came out of this the better person. He is the one who is going to lose in the long run once this runs its course and he realizes what he lost - a great family and wife who loved him more than anything. I have to keep going and be strong for my son who is extremely confused - he has many friends whose parents are divorced but I don't think he ever thought he would join the club. Everyone in our family is shocked (I kept all of this to myself so my side was shocked) his side thinks he is crazy and not sure what to say. I feel bad that everyone feels so awkward but I really feel I had no other choice, it would be no different if he had a physical affair, (which I am sure this is bordering dangerously close if has not already gotten there) I don't know if I told you but we all work for the same company (terribly awkward) but my office is located downtown and there's is more rural. A co-worker friend of mine said on her way home one evening she saw my husband in the parking lot after work talking to this woman and they ended up hugging! So I asked myself, if he had made the choice to first have a PA would I have stayed in the marriage and my answer was no - I just can't "share" my husband. This really destroyed me broke me down to shambles but yes, I'm living up to my name I feel a little stronger everyday and hope that one day my son will truly understand why things didn't work out.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Thank you so much for your more detailed update. It sounds at least like his family is somewhat supportive which is more than I would have expected. I assume that they all know why. It's important that this person not be introduced to the family as it he just happened to start dating her after you separated. A lot of cheaters try to pull that one.

It is a very small solace to you and your son, but their chances of success in a relationship aren't good. My husband admitted he would never be able to be certain that his AP wouldn't cheat on him. We all know that a person who would "date" someone who is very much married is not exactly life partner material.

Whatever their relationship is it hasn't been tested by the reality of life. Anything that people generally find annoying about him, she will eventually find annoying too. My husband's AP told me she found my husband infuriating. I never asked why she thought that, but I can only assume that he made her wait for a lunch date one too many times.  Of course I didn't respond (like I was going to start backstabbing my husband with her as if we were a couple of gossipping girlfriends! blech!).

I have one thought for you. You can draft custody agreements to include morality clauses to prevent exposure of your son to the OW until they are at least engaged to be married. Ask your lawyer how to get that in there if you haven't already.


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## gettingstrongereveryday (May 1, 2012)

iheartlife, another update and not sure what to do?

Her husband has been trying to contact me, not sure why as I am really nervous about what he might have to say....I'm sure he has heard about my husband and I's decision to separate and wants to know why...I just feel this is a really bad idea, my friends tell me to meet with him and see what he has to say but I just feel really awkward about it, I mean I'm just now getting myself to a place where I have accepted all of this and am trying to move forward with my life, do I really want to keep dredging around in this - he first emailed me about meeting in person, I haven't responded at all because I'm honestly not sure what to do here. His email was extremely vague so I'm confused as to what he would want to see me about....any advice would help!!! 

Also, thank you for advice on the custody agreement - I have thought about this and have met with a friend of a friend who is a lawyer and asked him about this - he explained it in detail but did warn that it can be tricky to enforce in the state that I live in - will keep you updated.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Well, unless you know this man some other way, he is obviously wishing to discuss their relationship. It's hard to say why; he might only have suspicions, or he wants to divorce and needs more evidence, or he is trying to reconcile and save his marriage.

Why don't you be honest with him via email and say what you said here. Say, I'm separated from my H, he's in constant texting communication with your wife and he won't stop. I don't know what they say to each other. It took strength for me to leave him and I don't want to be more deeply wounded than I already am. Then, if he wanted to share evidence, he won't, and if he thinks you have evidence, you don't have much beyond the awareness of their constant communication. He will also see you know about the affair and you don't have leverage b/c you're separating.

But, he may have evidence that you could use in custody or divorce. And, maybe he know far less than you, in which case he needs to know what you know. It's only fair, if he's even more in the dark than you have been.

What about meeting him with a friend in tow? He won't mind that. Your friend can take notes or look at what he has and serve as a buffer and support in the meeting if you need that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gettingstrongereveryday (May 1, 2012)

Thank you for that! I'm still not entirely sure - I have met him just a few times (when I thought my H and the OW were just friends) but you are right - if he doesn't know anything then he should be made aware....I mean I can't imagine that he wouldn't know but she may be good at hiding the relationship form him? Okay, he called my office phone twice today already....I guess I will email him back and see if he really needs to meet with me or if we can just discuss over email (which I would prefer)

I will keep you updated! this should be a very interesting weekend!:scratchhead:


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

gettingstrongereveryday said:


> Thank you for that! I'm still not entirely sure - I have met him just a few times (when I thought my H and the OW were just friends) but you are right - if he doesn't know anything then he should be made aware....I mean I can't imagine that he wouldn't know but she may be good at hiding the relationship form him? Okay, he called my office phone twice today already....I guess I will email him back and see if he really needs to meet with me or if we can just discuss over email (which I would prefer)
> 
> I will keep you updated! this should be a very interesting weekend!:scratchhead:


Good luck. Take a friend if you need the moral support.

If it were me, I would 100% go, but I'm me and you're you.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Wondering if you have any updates...


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## gettingstrongereveryday (May 1, 2012)

Wow, I have been incredibly busy I didn’t even realize how long it had been since I last posted 6/8!!! Updates, well – I have a ton…but will try not to make a book out of it. Since my son has been out of school for the summer, I took a girls and kids trip to Orlando for 5 days (it was heavenly! And my son and I had so much fun!) It was definitely exactly what we needed to get away from all of the drama and emotions and have some fun…I was also able to talk to my son one on one about the situation which was good. Of, course I want to make this as easy for him as I possibly can – I would NEVER talk about his Dad in front of him (regardless of how I feel about him right now! ) He took it a lot better than I expected – I mean I know this will be an adjustment and hard for him but he was so brave and I was really proud of him (I get teary just thinking about it)

So, for the grand update – I didn’t respond to my husband’s mistress’ husband – just didn’t feel right. I was totally torn, I felt like he should know everything if he didn’t already but I guess I was just scared of being the one to tell him…plus I didn’t want to rehash everything, I have been doing really well on my own and feel stronger than I have in years (and happier!) SO, right before I left on vacation with my son he shows up at my office! Our office doors are locked and you can only enter with a key card or ring the bell, well he made quite a scene trying to find me (on the verge of being frantic) my boss didn’t want me to talk to him but I told her it was okay and I took him across the street for a coffee.

He said he had noticed the constant attention to my husband, and the massive text messages and emails going back and forth. He was really angry, he said he wasn’t giving up and was angry with me for letting go so easily….I explained that our marriage had been rough for awhile and this EA (suspected PA) was the last straw, giving my husband the courage to finally leave a marriage that he wasn’t happy in. He pulled out pages of emails and text message logs and threw them on the table (he gave them to me – I still haven’t read them – I know – I’m chicken, but kept them just for legal reasons in case I need them) He said he has tried to contact my husband several times with no response (duh!) and he demanded that I tell him where he is living now, I didn’t share that with him – he was way to volatile. He is living temporarily with his father until he gets his own place, and we have been sharing our son pretty well (no major drama yet – but it’s still new) 

I have a lawyer (friend of a friend) who is helping me with everything, it is stressful….but again, it’s nice to come home to a quite, tense free house and spend time with my son. I am also able to do things that I couldn’t before…because he didn’t want me to and it feels so good to do things for me. I dyed my hair, been working out (lost 10lbs.) it was funny because he noticed when I went to pick up my son, he said “you look really great” I answered thanks, that I am really great (ha!).

Sorry, ended up making a book anyway! Thanks again for all of your help and support through this site, I must say it was nice to have a place to vent and receive advice from outside views.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Good to hear from you. You sound so positive, I'm glad you were able to have a bit of fun and that you have a good outlook. He truly is the loser in all of this.

I have to say, I feel very sorry for the OWH. But obviously you can't try to fix your marriage just so his wife will leave her affair. I also think you had little choice but to refuse to tell the OWH where your H is. His problem is with his wife, not your H. Many male BSs have ended up in jail confronting OM because they lose all control. We can hardly blame them, but it just makes a very bad situation that much worse.

I wonder if he reads this forum. He probably would miss your thread because it isn't in Coping with Infidelity. It also sounds like he didn't have much to add to what you already knew. Surely the logs just list dates and times; he did it in front of you so the amount and specifics can't really be that shocking.

Wish you all the best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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