# My insecurities and jealousy



## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

Not sure if this belongs here or not, but here it goes:
_Going to be long_ Wife and I have been married for 6 years now, we were together for quiet a few years before getting married. I've struggled with jealousy and insecurities. I blame it on past relationships. (PREVIOUS RELATIONSHIP NOT Current Wife)One in particular when I was younger, both young and in college, and we were still kind of together, but she was chasing after someone else, and I felt cheated but, till this day I still don't know if anything ever happened. Anyway, flash forward. Wife is an amazing person, way more social than I am and works with a lot of guys. Whom I think are way better looking and more outgoing than myself. I've always off and on felt jealous when she talked about her boss, in my mind she sounded excited talking about him/to him than she did with me. She was even texting him (about work) when we were on vacation before I proposed. Which, I think I've held onto that. This was talked about in our marriage classes too. She hangs out with a group off and on, they go out and play bingo and drink. A few months ago we all met, myself included, went bowling and drinking and her boss and a few others were with. I was already annoyed with her because instead of coming home to help me get the kids ready with our oldest to watch, she just went out and met with her friends. So off to a nice start. We ate, went bowling and during which, I was watching her and saw her "check out" her boss. That got me a lot more than it probably should. I told her about it after which she says she "didn't realize she did". I kind of forgave her, but not really. She's never done anything, she's always telling me she's not interested, and she would never do anything to jeopardize our relationship. She went out again two weeks ago, my jealousy again got in the way. We talked, she said the same thing she always says, she's not going to do anything. I feel like she's holding it against me now though, and it's come up more often lately that it's weighing on her. I feel like a total piece of **** that I can't just get over this and trust her and let her live her life. I feel like I'm turning into my father which, is and always has been protective of my mother (and she claims never let her have a social life). I don't want that in my marriage but, I just can't let go of these constant questioning and getting inside my own head with stupid ideas/thoughts. She likes to read of a lot of erotic novels, she's been reading more and more of them since the new year when I mentioned it would be nice for more sex next year. She reads of a lot "bad boy" books and some books about a Boss (like workplace boss..) and those make really uncomfortable..

TL;DR I'm struggling with my own insecurities and jealousy issues, wife has never done anything to make me not trust her but, I can't let go of thoughts/feelings that she could/would with the group she's hanging out with. I feel like it's causing unnecessary stress on our relationship.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

From the sound of it, I would think it is not very attractive to act the way you are acting, which could have the opposite effect of what you want.

Although some of her behaviors would have just about anyone keeping their eyes open.

I wouldn't express your concern unless you have evidence that she is doing something inappropriate.... trust but verify... not saying to turn a blind eye at all though.

If you need a confidence boost, hit the gym more, try to improve yourself.

It somewhat sounds like her having a social life means her hanging out without you around? Is that true?


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

> It somewhat sounds like her having a social life means her hanging out without you around. Is that true?


I'd say yes that probably is true..she doesn't want me around her friends a lot. I'm not very social when I first meet people. I take a bit to warm up. She goes out biweekly or so with this group from work.. with out me. I've asked to join but she's never asked me to come


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I'd say yes that probably is true..she doesn't want me around her friends a lot. I'm not very social when I first meet people. I take a bit to warm up. She goes out biweekly or so with this group from work.. with out me. I've asked to join but she's never asked me to come


What are those events like - after work cocktail hour or a weekend meetup for an extended period? Who is there and when does she come home?

ETA: On one hand it sounds like this jealousy thing started before you met your wife, and there is some sort of underlying social insecurity, but on the other hand, you should always trust your gut and it does seem to deserve a little investigation. Maybe a little investigation will help to ease your thoughts about it all (assuming you don't find anything).


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

re16 said:


> What are those events like - after work cocktail hour or a weekend meetup for an extended period? Who is there and when does she come home?


Usually it's cocktail hour and bingo. After work and until 8-9pm. It's friends from work..her boss included. Which after the seeing her check him out has me even more nervous about them hanging out.. 
We talked about this concern in our marriage classes with the priest and she said the same thing then as she does now. It's just never really gone away.. it will for a bit and then I fall into the pit. I have dug through her phone (I know I shouldn't) but, never found anything that would lead me to believe she's doing anything. It's the books, her boss and my own thoughts. I have reached out to seek therapy.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I have dug through her phone (I know I shouldn't)


I don't see an issue with this... my wife is welcome to look through anything of mine at any time she wants.

Is the boss single or married?

If there was something going on, workplace affairs are really tough to deal with, because there is so much face time, they don't need to coordinate via phone / text etc.

Do you guys share location on your phones?


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

He's single. We don't share location I used to use an app that shared but she stopped or it broke and I haven't fixed it.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

Again, I say polygraph.

Does your wife want to come in to console you?

Ask questions, get therapy if it goes away, start a divorce if it doesn't.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

You have to make a decision to trust her or not. She has given you no reason to doubt her.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

This is your issue and yours alone to deal with. Your wife is doing nothing wrong.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Trust your gut.

Stop confronting your wife.

She is giving you reasons not to trust her.

This doesn’t mean she is cheating. Just acting shady.

If she is cheating, it wouldn’t be the first time a wife has cheated with her boss.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I'd say yes that probably is true..she doesn't want me around her friends a lot. I'm not very social when I first meet people. I take a bit to warm up. She goes out biweekly or so with this group from work.. with out me. I've asked to join but she's never asked me to come


Your wife “works with a lot of guys” that she regularly goes out with after work to “play bingo and drink”. She has made it clear to you that “she doesn’t want” you around these friends, and “never asks” you to join them. Even when you asked to join them for bowling and drinking, she met you there so that you did not arrive or leave as a couple. With you right there, you have seen her with your own eyes checking out her single boss. In this situation it is normal to feel jealous and insecure, because she prioritizes this heavily male drinking group before you. This whole situation is BS. You appear to be a spouse of convenience, necessary to help raise the kids. If she is not cheating on you already, she is in a position in these drinking groups to easily cheat on you later with one of these men. 

You cannot control her, but you can control what you will put up with. I would not put up with this. You should never make someone a priority in your life that does not also make you a priority. 

Question, did she bring some of the kids into the marriage from a previous relationship?


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

You have to work on your own self confidence. 

Some garbage that a teenager pulled on you when you were both young, inexperienced college students is old news. You have to let that go. You absolutely cannot keep hanging on to that or emotionally punishing your wife because of something that somebody else did more than a decade ago. 

If you keep this up being suspicious all the time, accusing your wife of checking out her boss when all she probably did was look at the guy, eventually she is going to get fed up with your insecurities & accusations. When she's had enough she will leave you because you made her life miserable, not because she was cheating. 

If her going out drinking with work mates is the real problem, focus on the alcohol abuse not alleged infidelity that may only exist in your mind.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

I don't know. This sounds like a bit of both to me. Insecurity on your part but also some inappropriateness on your wife's part. There's no valid reason for her not to include you. I think my radar would be pinging too. And if you're as insecure as you say that's going to make this just messy. I think some counseling may be in order. I think in this situation you two could use an unbiased ear and some straight shooting advice.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Flyaway9768 said:


> Not sure if this belongs here or not, but here it goes:
> _Going to be long_ Wife and I have been married for 6 years now, we were together for quiet a few years before getting married. I've struggled with jealousy and insecurities. I blame it on past relationships. One in particular when I was younger, both young and in college, and we were still kind of together, but she was chasing after someone else, and I felt cheated but, till this day I still don't know if anything ever happened. Anyway, flash forward. Wife is an amazing person, way more social than I am and works with a lot of guys. Whom I think are way better looking and more outgoing than myself. I've always off and on felt jealous when she talked about her boss, in my mind she sounded excited talking about him/to him than she did with me. She was even texting him (about work) when we were on vacation before I proposed. Which, I think I've held onto that. This was talked about in our marriage classes too. She hangs out with a group off and on, they go out and play bingo and drink. A few months ago we all met, myself included, went bowling and drinking and her boss and a few others were with. I was already annoyed with her because instead of coming home to help me get the kids ready with our oldest to watch, she just went out and met with her friends. So off to a nice start. We ate, went bowling and during which, I was watching her and saw her "check out" her boss. That got me a lot more than it probably should. I told her about it after which she says she "didn't realize she did". I kind of forgave her, but not really. She's never done anything, she's always telling me she's not interested, and she would never do anything to jeopardize our relationship. She went out again two weeks ago, my jealousy again got in the way. We talked, she said the same thing she always says, she's not going to do anything. I feel like she's holding it against me now though, and it's come up more often lately that it's weighing on her. I feel like a total piece of **** that I can't just get over this and trust her and let her live her life. I feel like I'm turning into my father which, is and always has been protective of my mother (and she claims never let her have a social life). I don't want that in my marriage but, I just can't let go of these constant questioning and getting inside my own head with stupid ideas/thoughts. She likes to read of a lot of erotic novels, she's been reading more and more of them since the new year when I mentioned it would be nice for more sex next year. She reads of a lot "bad boy" books and some books about a Boss (like workplace boss..) and those make really uncomfortable..
> 
> TL;DR I'm struggling with my own insecurities and jealousy issues, wife has never done anything to make me not trust her but, I can't let go of thoughts/feelings that she could/would with the group she's hanging out with. I feel like it's causing unnecessary stress on our relationship.


Don't mean to add fuel to your situation, and I am very old fashioned.
I cannot understand why she would repeatedly do things that make you so upset. It does not matter she has the right to do so or social life freedom,.......
I wonder what family therapist would say.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

TRy said:


> Question, did she bring some of the kids into the marriage from a previous relationship?


No, I actually brought a kid into the relationship - she's not 15. We have two kids together but 3 in total.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

Not said:


> There's no valid reason for her not to include you.


It came up once that I "should come with" and that's really where it ended. She hasn't asked or offered to bring me or wanted me to come with since that.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Flyaway9768 said:


> Usually it's cocktail hour and bingo. After work and until 8-9pm. It's friends from work..her boss included. Which after the seeing her check him out has me even more nervous about them hanging out..
> We talked about this concern in our marriage classes with the priest and she said the same thing then as she does now. It's just never really gone away.. it will for a bit and then I fall into the pit. I have dug through her phone (I know I shouldn't) but, never found anything that would lead me to believe she's doing anything. It's the books, her boss and my own thoughts. I have reached out to seek therapy.


Again, I am very old fashioned.
But why would a woman with 3 children hang out like that after work. I would be worried children at home.
If it is once or twice a year, that would be fine.
Checking out her boss is very wield to me.
May be marriage counseling? And clearly tell her what you feel about all these behavior.
Not that only going to bed together is problem. Inappropriate behavior is also problem, especially the other party feels very uncomfortable.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

@Flyaway9768 
trust your guts. there is no smoke without fire. 

I'm a boss and we dont have that social life after work drinking etc..
opposite sex drinking together after work could lead to trouble. dont listen about trust BS that people talk about

you might be able to trust her but not the people around her. 

you know your wife more than anyone here, and if caught her checking him out and talk to him about then she might already be in emotional affair, if it is not physical already. 

there is nothing wrong with being protective or jealous. 

if you check my previous comments from other threads you will see that I had worked in small and large healthcare and enterprise companies in a leadership role. 

all affairs started with married individuals during their after hours and drinking sessions. 

if she knows you are a jealous person then her job is to make sure that you are comfortable together. it is two way streets, it is not just about you need to trust her. 

life lesson 1 - Do not trust anyone 

drinking makes taboos easier - erotic novels pave the ways to taboos - a well spoken man/woman in a boss role will make it much easier.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

Maia.2022 said:


> Again, I am very old fashioned.
> But why would a woman with 3 children hang out like that after work. I would be worried children at home.
> If it is once or twice a year, that would be fine.
> Checking out her boss is very wield to me.
> ...


it is sad we call family relation is an old fashion - 
i agree with everything you said above


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

One thing she always says. if I use "what If I did that" like for example her hanging out alone with other men "If I hung out alone with another woman" her reply "well I know you wouldn't do anything and you'd come home to me". She's used that where "I wouldn't do anything, and I always come home to you" is the answer. Is this cryptic ? Like yeah, you can come home to me but while you're out doing whatever does it even matter if come home to me?... 


EDIT- when she comes home from these outings with friends.. she comes home and will usually fall asleep soon after, we dont' really talk. I've confronted her about this too, her response is usually " I don't want to tell you about it because I fear what you're going to think and you get upset".


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> One thing she always says. if I use "what If I did that" like for example her hanging out alone with other men "If I hung out alone with another woman" her reply "well I know you wouldn't do anything and you'd come home to me". She's used that where "I wouldn't do anything, and I always come home to you" is the answer. Is this cryptic ? Like yeah, you can come home to me but while you're out doing whatever does it even matter if come home to me?...


that alone tells me a lot
she is planning to cheat or she already cheated

*1- I know you wouldn't do anything means:*

you will cant find another woman to hang out with you. and I will stop that from happening
or you should find someone - and that will justify her action of cheating and hanging out with other men. because you are doing it
*2- you would come home to me - means*

she can rug sweep anything
why we dont both cheat and find other people
I know you cant do anything about it

that statement alone means she is doesn't care about your relationship and would like to explore other possibilities but keep a plan B

bud look at it from a different scenario
you work for your boss - your boss change your job responsibilities a little by giving some of your duty to another employee (the reason you got this job because of these duties). you express concern to your job and he says " you can always look outside my department or company for another job but you are always welcome to stay"

the fact your boss didnt fight for you tell me that he is planning to replace you or layoff - and he is buying time to find a replacement


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

My recommendation to you 

think about your situation as you getting divorced. 

strength your financial, separate your accounts and even talk to a lawyer - all of this just cane just to give you one step a head. 

then work on your marriage - draw the lines - take your evidence gathering under group - monitor the situation from far if you cant stop your wife from hanging out without you. 

it is your right to ask your spouse to stop hanging out with opposite sex after work, alone or none related work functions.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I think since you acknowledge that at least part of this is due to your own insecurities, you should get into individual therapy and start working on it and get yourself right. Then you can better assess the situation. It won't happen overnight. But you should work on that.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I don't want to tell you about it because I fear what you're going to think and you get upset".


Well that doesn't sound very good, you need to investigate this more.

There are some real red flags here.

She is clearly stating that she knows what she is doing would not be acceptable to you, so she just hides the truth from you.

You had location sharing and she turned it off.....

I think you should be able to have some sort of idea where she actually is... how do you know she is at bingo with a group and not just alone with the boss?

If you have iphone - maybe air tag in the car?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

ABHale said:


> Stop confronting your wife.


I strongly second this... do not say anything (for now) about what she is doing or that you are suspicious.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

She's a partier. There are problems with that since the alcohol is taking time away from you & the kids but I don't see cheating. I see the potential for substance abuse. Your insecurities gloss over the alcohol & the drinking a driving. Since she is inviting you, she's not cheating with a person but her choices are harming your relationship. This is important because the fixes for infidelity vs substance dependence are vastly different.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

D0nnivain said:


> Since she is inviting you, she's not cheating


I don't think she is inviting him based on this:



Flyaway9768 said:


> she doesn't want me around her friends a lot.... She goes out biweekly or so with this group from work.. with out me. I've asked to join but she's never asked me to come


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Flyaway9768 said:


> One in particular when I was younger, both young and in college, and we were still kind of together, but she was chasing after someone else, and I felt cheated but, till this day I still don't know if anything ever happened.


She was interested in another guy in college back in the days? Did you discuss this matter with your wife? What did she tell you?



Flyaway9768 said:


> Anyway, flash forward. Wife is an amazing person, way more social than I am and works with a lot of guys. Whom I think are way better looking and more outgoing than myself.


Why do you feel like this? *So what *if they are better looking than you? Are you supposed to compete with them in looks? Is this a beauty contest?

You are a MAN and you have a wife and a family unit of your own. This is an accomplishment in itself for you.

Keep yourself in good shape; join a gym and/or work out. This activity will boost your confidence. Become the ALPHA in your mind.

Women appreciate physical fitness and confidence.



Flyaway9768 said:


> I've always off and on felt jealous when she talked about her boss, in my mind she sounded excited talking about him/to him than she did with me. She was even texting him (about work) when we were on vacation before I proposed. Which, I think I've held onto that. This was talked about in our marriage classes too. She hangs out with a group off and on, they go out and play bingo and drink. A few months ago we all met, myself included, went bowling and drinking and her boss and a few others were with. I was already annoyed with her because instead of coming home to help me get the kids ready with our oldest to watch, she just went out and met with her friends. So off to a nice start. We ate, went bowling and during which, I was watching her and saw her "check out" her boss. That got me a lot more than it probably should. I told her about it after which she says she "didn't realize she did". I kind of forgave her, but not really. She's never done anything, she's always telling me she's not interested, and she would never do anything to jeopardize our relationship. She went out again two weeks ago, my jealousy again got in the way. We talked, she said the same thing she always says, she's not going to do anything. I feel like she's holding it against me now though, and it's come up more often lately that it's weighing on her. I feel like a total piece of **** that I can't just get over this and trust her and let her live her life. I feel like I'm turning into my father which, is and always has been protective of my mother (and she claims never let her have a social life). I don't want that in my marriage but, I just can't let go of these constant questioning and getting inside my own head with stupid ideas/thoughts. She likes to read of a lot of erotic novels, she's been reading more and more of them since the new year when I mentioned it would be nice for more sex next year. She reads of a lot "bad boy" books and some books about a Boss (like workplace boss..) and those make really uncomfortable..


So your wife met this man (her boss) before you proposed her? She finds him interesting and exciting as well?

Facepalm, bro. 🤦‍♂️

Why did you marry this woman *IF* she does not finds YOU interesting and exciting but other men? What were you thinking, really?

OR

You do have some qualities which your wife found to be attractive and she decided to say YES to you when you proposed?

You have confidence-related problems. So what if other men are better looking than you? See my advice above.

Be *the* MAN and _*the*_ BEAST in your mind (be confident and strong-minded in other words). Hit the gym and work out - this will help. Keep yourself in good shape (and smile) when you are with your wife. She will notice.

Your wife is reading erotic stories about so-called Bad Boys and Bosses. *Take this as a hint. *

Your wife most likely holds her boss in high regard. This is OK.

*But* you saw her checking him out. This is NOT OK.

He is single but your wife is not. She should be *reserved* while interacting with her boss and other male colleagues. She should NOT give them encouraging vibes.

When you notice something inappropriate in her interactions with other men, what are you supposed to do as her husband? You are supposed to CAUTION your wife about it. This is "sensible."

IF she is DRINKING with other men then you should draw a line in this regard. She should be *sober* while interacting with her boss and other male colleagues.

In short, your wife should be *reserved* and *sober* while interacting with her boss and other male colleagues. This is how a married woman is supposed to behave.



Flyaway9768 said:


> TL;DR I'm struggling with my own insecurities and jealousy issues, wife has never done anything to make me not trust her but, I can't let go of thoughts/feelings that she could/would with the group she's hanging out with. I feel like it's causing unnecessary stress on our relationship.


She is having quality time with her colleagues, and this bugs you.

Are you having quality time with your wife? Do you have any hobbies (or activities) in which you can involve your wife? Just the two of you?

For perspective:

1. I take my wife to a park where both of us have a WALK together. For fitness reasons.

2. I watch movies with my wife.

3. I play video games at times, and I am introducing my wife to these contents. She seems to be onboard.

You should be having quality time with your wife of your own making. Determine how to keep her involved with you.

Become the man who is fun and engaging to be with yourself.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Whether your jealousies are justified or not, with your whiny beta behavior you're heading toward a self fulfilled prophesy.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

@LeGenDary_Man you make good points about the looks.. 
as for the first part, know that was a previous relationship.. which I need to let go of.
No, we need to do better with quality time..the issue is, she is always reading her books. She gets up in the morning, reads. After dinner, reads. Before bed, reads. We tried watching a movie together the other night and we were cuddling on the couch. She says she's going to bed, which I walk in to her reading again.. so quality time with her hard at home. We did have a date night on Friday which was nice.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Flyaway9768 said:


> when she comes home from these outings with friends.. she comes home and will usually fall asleep soon after, we dont' really talk. I've confronted her about this too, her response is usually " I don't want to tell you about it because I fear what you're going to think and you get upset".


 So she does not "tell you about what she does with these other men" because she knows that you would "get upset". This also explains why you are not invited to join them. You already know that she goes drinking with these other men, so now you have to ask yourself what is it she is doing with these other men that would make you upset; it is more than just playing bingo.

Stop complaining to her and secretly hire a P.I. with a camera for one of the nights that you know she will be going out with them. Have the P.I. take photos as he follows her from work to the place that they are going to, observe what they do there, and then to home. Get the full picture of what is going on. It will be money well spent. Just because you have low self esteem, which she appears to be encouraging instead of helping you with, does not mean that you deserve to be cheated on.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

@TRy it's not just other men she goes with. There's other woman that go with. I guess I maybe didn't mention that the first time. It's not like she's with them alone.. it's a group of 5-6 women and men.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> @TRy  it's not just other men she goes with. There's other woman that go with. I guess I maybe didn't mention that the first time. It's not like she's with them alone.. it's a group of 5-6 women and men.


do you think her reading books is her way to avoid you. 
example, i went through a period in my marriage where i played video games every minutes and chance because i was checked out and not liking my spouse. bad time in marriage that I got over

do you feel her reading increased since she started working for this boss? may be her reading a book is her way to mask her feelings for the other person or guilt from cheating. 

she might not be cheating but bud, you marriage, wife and other guy/guys do not look good


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

blackclover3 said:


> do you think her reading books is her way to avoid you.
> example, i went through a period in my marriage where i played video games every minutes and chance because i was checked out and not liking my spouse. bad time in marriage that I got over
> 
> do you feel her reading increased since she started working for this boss? may be her reading a book is her way to mask her feelings for the other person or guilt from cheating.
> ...


She's been at the same place for over 10 years. She has worked with the same guy/Boss since we've been together. She has read books off and on, she has a collection at home but, her frequency in reading has changed.. like I said, she reads when she gets up, gets home, after dinner, before bed. I did ask her if her reading is a way to avoid talking and she did admit that it might be..


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> @TRy it's not just other men she goes with. There's other woman that go with. I guess I maybe didn't mention that the first time. It's not like she's with them alone.. it's a group of 5-6 women and men.


If you were a wife complaining about her husband behaving this way I would tell you what an inconsiderate bastard he is for not taking care of his wife and being above suspicion around females.

You need to man up and stop being ok with bs behavior.

As far as jealousies and insecurities go you're gonna have them. So work it out with your wife and/or counseling.
But none of this matters if she continues to go with the boys. Because you're gonna end up divorced or in an open marriage.


“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.”
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

“Just because you're insecure doesn't mean she isn't cheating.”
― BR, TAM


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> She's been at the same place for over 10 years. She has worked with the same guy/Boss since we've been together. She has read books off and on, she has a collection at home but, her frequency in reading has changed.. like I said, she reads when she gets up, gets home, after dinner, before bed. I did ask her if her reading is a way to avoid talking and she did admit that it might be..


than that tells you everything you need - she is avoiding you to mask her guilt and think about the other man. 
some cheaters think they are cheating on their affair partner with their spouse.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

blackclover3 said:


> than that tells you everything you need - she is avoiding you to mask her guilt and think about the other man.
> some cheaters think they are cheating on their affair partner with their spouse.


This sounds the worst scenario. But if I were OP, I would take your advice from earlier post and get some preparation for the worst scenario. Hope it is done in vain, but if it comes, better to be prepared.

What bothers me most, she seem to have zero care for her man, her children,.....
I have never seen any women with 3 children can have time read, read, read, read, ...... I do not think this is nornal.
Also, if she is making someon under the same roof so uncomfortable, upset, or even in pain, how can she be so indifferent and repeat it forever without feeling any discomfort. I do not think this is normal.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> If you were a wife complaining about her husband behaving this way I would tell you what an inconsiderate bastard he is for not taking care of his wife and being above suspicion around females.
> 
> You need to man up and stop being ok with bs behavior.
> 
> ...


I think it is not about his manning up or not.
It is that she does not care.Tango needs 2 people to dance, she does not want to dance.
All the conversations, I think she is very cold hearten.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

Maia.2022 said:


> What bothers me most, she seem to have zero care for her man, her children,.....
> I have never seen any women with 3 children can have time read, read, read, read, ...... I do not think this is nornal.
> Also, if she is making someon under the same roof so uncomfortable, upset, or even in pain, how can she be so indifferent and repeat it forever without feeling any discomfort. I do not think this is normal.


I've been handing the kids for the most part, while she sleeps or reads inside..
Should I talk to her about this again? A part of me just wants to dig in.. when we went on our date I told her how I've been feeling, like I'm losing her and I don't want to and she made a short conversation and then back to reading..
I need to know why all this reading... what is she hiding from or hiding?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Maia.2022 said:


> I think it is not about his manning up or not.
> It is that she does not care.Tango needs 2 people to dance, she does not want to dance.
> All the conversations, I think she is very cold hearten.


I think OP is scared to set boundaries.
Agree she doesn't care...which is scary for OP because when he stands his ground she will go to her AP.

That's the context for the ‘man up’ comment. Stop being afraid to do the right thing and stand up for yourself even if she leaves.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Flyaway9768 said:


> One thing she always says. if I use "what If I did that" like for example her hanging out alone with other men "If I hung out alone with another woman" her reply "well I know you wouldn't do anything and you'd come home to me". She's used that where "I wouldn't do anything, and I always come home to you" is the answer. Is this cryptic ? Like yeah, you can come home to me but while you're out doing whatever does it even matter if come home to me?...
> 
> 
> EDIT- when she comes home from these outings with friends.. she comes home and will usually fall asleep soon after, we dont' really talk. I've confronted her about this too, her response is usually " I don't want to tell you about it because I fear what you're going to think and you get upset".


So basically she is saying what she is doing is shady.

Are they playing strip bingo?


she is playing you for a fool.This isn’t your insecurities from your previous relationships. This is your wife hiding things from you.

Tell her to come clean with what is going on or the marriage is over. That your not going to play the fool any longer.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I've been handing the kids for the most part, while she sleeps or reads inside..
> Should I talk to her about this again? A part of me just wants to dig in.. when we went on our date I told her how I've been feeling, like I'm losing her and I don't want to and she made a short conversation and then back to reading..
> I need to know why all this reading... what is she hiding from or hiding?



You have already lost and don’t realize it. She has checked out of the relationship.

Talk with a lawyer so you know what a divorce will look like. If you do everything for the kids, go for custody as primary.

Do you work or stay home with the kids?


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> You have already lost and don’t realize it. She has checked out of the relationship.
> 
> Talk with a lawyer so you know what a divorce will look like. If you do everything for the kids, go for custody as primary.
> 
> Do you work or stay home with the kids?


I work a full time job.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I've been handing the kids for the most part, while she sleeps or reads inside..
> Should I talk to her about this again? A part of me just wants to dig in.. when we went on our date I told her how I've been feeling, like I'm losing her and I don't want to and she made a short conversation and then back to reading..
> I need to know why all this reading... what is she hiding from or hiding?


I should be last person to give you advice. I am not married, never married.
I guess it depends on the person, personality. My personality, I like to find things out as quickly as possible, make plan and take action.
From what you wrote, she does not seem to have any bit of care for the family. It is odd to me you are taking care for children in evenings. But every family is different, if that works for your family.
Is it very expensive to hire a private detective to find out what is going on with all her hangouts?


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

Maia.2022 said:


> Is it very expensive to hire a private detective to find out what is going on with all her hangouts?


No idea.. I don't even know where to start.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Flyaway9768 said:


> She's been at the same place for over 10 years. She has worked with the same guy/Boss since we've been together. She has read books off and on, she has a collection at home but, her frequency in reading has changed.. like I said, she reads when she gets up, gets home, after dinner, before bed. I did ask her if her reading is a way to avoid talking and she did admit that it might be..


What does she have to do for you to realize she is over you?


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I work a full time job.


Then this is very odd. You also work for full time, and do all house work, take care for kids.
All she does is hanging out, reading, ........
This is not normal.
If I were you, I would PM blackclover and ask more details what to prepare.
I think the priciple might be that prepare things very quietly, like collecting evidences, ....


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> She's been at the same place for over 10 years. She has worked with the same guy/Boss since we've been together. She has read books off and on, she has a collection at home but, her frequency in reading has changed.. like I said, she reads when she gets up, gets home, after dinner, before bed. I did ask her if her reading is a way to avoid talking and she did admit that it might be..


This is more concerning of a pattern than the going out with coworkers. She is reading to avoid talking to you and she doesn't want to talk to you about what went on during the biweekly outing. Do you have any idea why?

You mentioned she said this about not telling about her nights out: "I don't want to tell you about it because I fear what you're going to think and you get upset". I could take that two ways. She did something you know you wouldn't approve of, which is really bad. Nothing should be hidden from a spouse and if you are afraid to tell them about it then you shouldn't be doing it. Or she knows no matter what she did you will read something into it and get upset. Do you know which it is?

As for not wanting to talk in general, what is that all about? Do you regularly direct conversations to topics about her interactions with her boss and coworkers? If so, then that begs the question, is she afraid she may let something slip about activities that are not appropriate, or is she just tired of you beating the same drum of jealousy?

I can't tell if the situation is as you describe it, or if the description is being influenced by some unfound jealousy and insecurity you have. For example, her checking out her boss. Was that real or your perception? I wouldn't have expected her to answer any other way than she did regardless of the reality, so it doesn't really help us discern if it was real or your paranoia. How did you know she checked him out?

You mentioned asking about going with her. To me that is the best solution, but I guess that may not always be possible with kids at home, unless the oldest can watch them. Do other spouses go with? I'm personally not a big fan of socializing with the opposite sex without both spouses present. I wouldn't be bothered if my wife went out on a rare occasion with mixed company from work, but on the regular would be an issue for me. Especially since it seems to be purely social, no business involved. I would personally want to go with, and I think my wife feels the same way and would likely ask me to go with or she wouldn't go.


ETA: For clarity. What do you mean when you say biweekly? That could be twice a week or every other week. Which is it?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I work a full time job.


Great, glad to hear this.

Now talk with a lawyer and respect yourself enough to put an end to what she is doing.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

> You mentioned she said this about not telling about her nights out: "I don't want to tell you about it because I fear what you're going to think and you get upset". I could take that two ways. She did something you know you wouldn't approve of, which is really bad. Nothing should be hidden from a spouse and if you are afraid to tell them about it then you shouldn't be doing it. Or she knows no matter what she did you will read something into it and get upset. Do you know which it is?


I feel like it's she's just thinking no matter I'm going to think bad things.. 



> As for not wanting to talk in general, what is that all about? Do you regularly direct conversations to topics about her interactions with her boss and coworkers? If so, then that begs the question, is she afraid she may let something slip about activities that are not appropriate, or is she just tired of you beating the same drum of jealousy?


probably tired of me beating the same drum - so that's the question then.. do I just leave it be or keep trying to talk to her about my concerns? 



> I can't tell if the situation is as you describe it, or if the description is being influenced by some unfound jealousy and insecurity you have. For example, her checking out her boss. Was that real or your perception? I wouldn't have expected her to answer any other way than she did regardless of the reality, so it doesn't really help us discern if it was real or your paranoia. How did you know she checked him out?


That night started off on a bad note..she got off work early and met up with her friends, which in turn left me to make sure the kids were fed and everything situated at home. I was already pissed off.. while we were out I keep my eye on her and while watching her, her eyes went from up, down and then back up. 



> You mentioned asking about going with her. To me that is the best solution, but I guess that may not always be possible with kids at home, unless the oldest can watch them. Do other spouses go with? I'm personally not a big fan of socializing with the opposite sex without both spouses present. I wouldn't be bothered if my wife went out on a rare occasion with mixed company from work, but on the regular would be an issue for me. Especially since it seems to be purely social, no business involved. I would personally want to go with, and I think my wife feels the same way and would likely ask me to go with or she wouldn't go.
> ETA: For clarity. What do you mean when you say biweekly? That could be twice a week or every other week. Which is it?


It's about every other week they go out. I will ask about going and see how she reacts. 

To be fair, I used to commute for my job, I used to go out once maybe every 2 months or more. Now I'm working closer to home and don't really have that social after work. 
I don't have much interaction with people outside of phone calls and the occasional clients coming in. The aloneness and boredom doesn't help anything. I do try and keep busy but, it's only short lived.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I feel like it's she's just thinking no matter I'm going to think bad things..
> 
> 
> probably tired of me beating the same drum - so that's the question then.. do I just leave it be or keep trying to talk to her about my concerns?
> ...


What is the contribution she is making to the family besides her income?
Does she ever care what is going on with children, like how they are doing in school, if they are physically alright, does she ever worry about any tiny sign of sickness in your children.
Does she ever worry about any one in the family?
Does she make any effort to make anyone happy?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Flyaway9768 said:


> @TRy it's not just other men she goes with. There's other woman that go with. I guess I maybe didn't mention that the first time. It's not like she's with them alone.. it's a group of 5-6 women and men.


You said in your first post that she works with “a lot of guys”, which means that out of the group of 5-6, 2 to 4 are men. These outings similar to how group dates work. What she is doing with these men she does not want you to know.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Why stay with a wife that doesn’t want to spend any time with you?

Do you actually believe she still loves you?


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> Why stay with a wife that doesn’t want to spend any time with you?
> 
> Do you actually believe she still loves you?


I do think she still loves me.. I don't believe she has or will do anything to jeopardize our marriage.. I think she's just sick of my ****.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I do think she still loves me.. I don't believe she has or will do anything to jeopardize our marriage.. I think she's just sick of my ****.


What are you going to do about it?


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> What are you going to do about it?


Talk to her more about my concerns, tell her how I feel about everything, tell her how uncomfortable I am with her hanging out with who she does and how much she is reading and what she's reading.. seek therapy to help deal with myself.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> Talk to her more about my concerns, tell her how I feel about everything, tell her how uncomfortable I am with her hanging out with who she does and how much she is reading and what she's reading.. seek therapy to help deal with myself.


So you are going to reiterate everything you've said before that now leads you to believe she is "sick of your ****"? Won't that make her more sick of your ****?

Is this biweekly thing the only thing she does socially without you?

As for all the reading, have you thought about telling her you want more time together with her?


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Flyaway9768 said:


> @LeGenDary_Man you make good points about the looks..


Thanks.

Never compare yourself with other men like that. You are not in competition with other men for looks.

Take good care of yourself (and your hygiene). Take a bath, brush your teeth, and comb your hair regularly. Shave, and cut your nails periodically. Smell good when you are with your wife. These matters are routine but important to retain attraction.



Flyaway9768 said:


> as for the first part, know that was a previous relationship.. which I need to let go of.


You should.



Flyaway9768 said:


> No, we need to do better with quality time..the issue is, she is always reading her books. She gets up in the morning, reads. After dinner, reads. Before bed, reads. We tried watching a movie together the other night and we were cuddling on the couch. She says she's going to bed, which I walk in to her reading again.. so quality time with her hard at home. We did have a date night on Friday which was nice.


You certainly need to figure out how to have quality time with your wife. This is important for you and your marriage.

You need to become the man who is fun and engaging to be with, yourself.

Your disclosure suggest that she is trying to avoid you, or minimize spending time with you. What do you talk about when she is with you? Do you confront, complain, accuse, and/or express your jealousy very often? Have you pis**d her off or something? Is she upset or angry?

When she comes back from her office this time, give her a hug, take her to your room, and talk to her about her excessive reading habit (about her focus on erotic stories).

Tell her that this is not helpful and you are concerned.
Admit to her that the two of you need to have better quality time with each other.
Ask her if something is bothering her lately.
Ask her if all is well in her office and otherwise.
Your motive should be to encourage her to open up to you and speak her mind. Encourage her to talk (and vent).

See how it goes, and then provide an update here.

Just stop confronting her and accusing her all the time. This is not helpful.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Never compare yourself with other men like that. You are not in competition with other men for looks.
> 
> ...


I did this tonight. She was home late which already had me anxious, I made supper and fed the kids. She got home and I expressed my concerns and asked if she cared about any of them. I asked about the reading and what it is about them that she constantly has to be reading.. she claimed the storyline grabs her.. I expressed my concerns with a lot them being about men in power and how they seem like her boss, as he's a higher up than her. She acknowledged that concern and explained they're just a way to unwind, they're not based on reality and that's not how the world works. We talked about how we don't do anything like hang out or watch movies or really talk anymore. She acknowledged and agreed with that. She also agreed to spend more time together. She also explained she doesn't talk to me about her outings because she thinks I'll just think something bad when nothing but bullshitting and talking goes on. I did ask about going and she didn't hesitate and said yes she would like that. She just doesn't want me to sit there sulking or giving dirty looks, which I admit might happen. I again expressed my concerns with her boss, relating her readings and even Grey's Anatomy,which is one of her favorite shows.. "that's not reality". She asked about having a board game night with friends.. I asked who would come and she named off her usual group..boss included. I said I would have a problem with that.. she also explained how she feels like she can't have friends or at least guy friends and thay the group she has at work are her friends and only friends besides her sister and me. She also told me how I make it sound as though I don't trust her.. it's not really so much as I don't trust the people she hangs out with... I told her how I feel about my social life as well and where maybe it's jealousy that she has that social life, where I don't have much of one since I don't have my old group (they're all an hour away and work different jobs now). Also brought up with the reading, her new years resolution was to have more sex or be more sexual with me, and she took it as that's all I wanted was sex and touching. I explain that's not what I meant.. I wanted more sex/physical attention yes, but I didn't want it at the expense of us not talking hanging out together. 
I told her I want to hear about her day, I want to hear about her time out l, even if I have a problem with it.. she told did opened up about more.. she said it was a bit of a relief to share. 

We went for a walk tonight after all this..she's been kind of quiet and tells me she's "processing" what we talked about..


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I did this tonight. She was home late which already had me anxious, I made supper and fed the kids. She got home and I expressed my concerns and asked if she cared about any of them. I asked about the reading and what it is about them that she constantly has to be reading.. she claimed the storyline grabs her.. I expressed my concerns with a lot them being about men in power and how they seem like her boss, as he's a higher up than her. She acknowledged that concern and explained they're just a way to unwind, they're not based on reality and that's not how the world works. We talked about how we don't do anything like hang out or watch movies or really talk anymore. She acknowledged and agreed with that. She also agreed to spend more time together. She also explained she doesn't talk to me about her outings because she thinks I'll just think something bad when nothing but bullshitting and talking goes on. I did ask about going and she didn't hesitate and said yes she would like that. She just doesn't want me to sit there sulking or giving dirty looks, which I admit might happen. I again expressed my concerns with her boss, relating her readings and even Grey's Anatomy,which is one of her favorite shows.. "that's not reality". She asked about having a board game night with friends.. I asked who would come and she named off her usual group..boss included. I said I would have a problem with that.. she also explained how she feels like she can't have friends or at least guy friends and thay the group she has at work are her friends and only friends besides her sister and me. She also told me how I make it sound as though I don't trust her.. it's not really so much as I don't trust the people she hangs out with... I told her how I feel about my social life as well and where maybe it's jealousy that she has that social life, where I don't have much of one since I don't have my old group (they're all an hour away and work different jobs now). Also brought up with the reading, her new years resolution was to have more sex or be more sexual with me, and she took it as that's all I wanted was sex and touching. I explain that's not what I meant.. I wanted more sex/physical attention yes, but I didn't want it at the expense of us not talking hanging out together.
> I told her I want to hear about her day, I want to hear about her time out l, even if I have a problem with it.. she told did opened up about more.. she said it was a bit of a relief to share.
> 
> We went for a walk tonight after all this..she's been kind of quiet and tells me she's "processing" what we talked about..


This is jsut suffocating to read.
Whole conversation or argument chills me. This woman is cold hearten unhumane manipulating.....
You are arguing about her outing with her boss, and to make things better she is suggesting a game night with her boss!
She wants to further upset you.
She does not have to love you not to do this. Just as a human being, only with empathy, a normal person would not do this!
Why are you with her? If it is beause of kids, I have nothing to say. If you think there is hope, she loves you, you still lover her.... Wake up.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I did this tonight. She was home late which already had me anxious, I made supper and fed the kids. She got home and I expressed my concerns and asked if she cared about any of them. I asked about the reading and what it is about them that she constantly has to be reading.. *she claimed the storyline grabs her..* I expressed my concerns with a lot them being about men in power and how they seem like her boss, as he's a higher up than her. She acknowledged that concern and explained they're just a way to unwind, they're not based on reality and that's not how the world works.


If I were in your shoes, and she said that, I would have used her statement as an opportunity to make her smile:

_"Hey horney, how about I grab you..."_ - followed by a wink, and giving her that look with a smile on my face.

Try some humor in your conversations for a change. It will make your wife feel better and comfortable in your company.

You can express your concern(s) about her questionable habit(s) when she is relaxed and comfortable. Allow her to be more expressive, and to vent. She cannot if you will continue to judge her all the time.

Point is to observe what is happening (keep your eyes open) *but* revisit your communication skills.


You should be engaging when you feel the need to.
You should be serious when you feel the need to.
You should be fun when you feel the need to.

You should NOT be serious and worried all the time. This will add to your stresses.

Your wife also works, and she should NOT be under stress all the time. She should NOT be made to walk on egg-shells all the time.

She should find you to be comforting, loving and supportive when she is at home. She should be able to open up to you and confide in you. She cannot, if she is judged all the time.

Confrontation works when it is absolutely necessary, well-timed, and on the mark. The objective of confrontation is to define a boundary in your marriage which should be respected by both you and your wife. You can frame it in this way.



Flyaway9768 said:


> We talked about how we don't do anything like hang out or watch movies or really talk anymore. She acknowledged and agreed with that. She also agreed to spend more time together. She also explained she doesn't talk to me about her outings because she thinks I'll just think something bad when nothing but bullshitting and talking goes on. I did ask about going and she didn't hesitate and said yes she would like that. She just doesn't want me to sit there sulking or giving dirty looks, which I admit might happen.


This is all good. She is realizing it.



Flyaway9768 said:


> I again expressed my concerns with her boss, relating her readings and even Grey's Anatomy,which is one of her favorite shows.. "that's not reality".


Do NOT bring this up in your conversations with your wife Again and Again and Again - every day. This is not helpful.

He is the boss (her boss), and your wife have no choice but to interact with him for work-related matters. She cannot cut him off from her life unless you want her to quit her job and find another (or stay at home).

What you need to do is to convince her to keep her interactions with her boss "professional." He is SINGLE and can afford to play around [after] office hours, but your wife is a married woman and her family should be her top priority in her life now.

She should be spending time with you and your kids [after] office hours. This is completely normal expectation from her.

If you want this to happen then you need to be a better man yourself, be willing to have quality time with your wife, and revisit your communication skills.

Your strategy should be to rope her in - pull her towards you.



Flyaway9768 said:


> She asked about having a board game night with friends.. I asked who would come and she named off her usual group..boss included. I said I would have a problem with that.. she also explained how she feels like she can't have friends or at least guy friends and thay the group she has at work are her friends and only friends besides her sister and me. She also told me how I make it sound as though I don't trust her.. it's not really so much as I don't trust the people she hangs out with... I told her how I feel about my social life as well and where maybe it's jealousy that she has that social life, where I don't have much of one since I don't have my old group (they're all an hour away and work different jobs now).


It sounds like she sought your permission for a board game night with her [office] friends.

You have objected to it, right?

Why she cannot have a board game night with you? You [should] offer to go with her for this game instead. This does NOT have to be a routine, and you do NOT have to be an expert in a board game - just take her out and play with her for fun when she feels like it.

Tell her that a married woman having (single) male friends, is not acceptable to many people around the world. You share this sentiment, and you are not an exception in this view. It is important to have some boundaries in a marriage.

Then tell her that you understand her need to have friends in life *but* *they should be friends of your marriage as well.* They should allow you to join them when your wife is hanging out with them [after] office hours - your wife should let them know that you might decide to join them out of the blue (they should expect this)*. She is NOT allowed to consume alcohol with them either. This is how it works for married people. These are the boundaries.

*Her (office) friends will know that they should be sober with your wife while hanging out with her. Because you might come.

Then tell her that these perspectives and boundaries apply to you as well (the husband). In fairness.



Flyaway9768 said:


> Also brought up with the reading, her new years resolution was to have more sex or be more sexual with me, and she took it as that's all I wanted was sex and touching. I explain that's not what I meant.. I wanted more sex/physical attention yes, but I didn't want it at the expense of us not talking hanging out together.
> I told her I want to hear about her day, I want to hear about her time out l, even if I have a problem with it.. she told did opened up about more.. she said it was a bit of a relief to share.
> 
> We went for a walk tonight after all this..she's been kind of quiet and tells me she's "processing" what we talked about..


This is good. You should encourage her to open up to you and confide in you.

Remember my advice. You need to be a better man yourself, be willing to have quality time with your wife, and revisit your communication skills.

Keep us informed.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> If I were in your shoes, and she said that, I would have used her statement as an opportunity to make her smile:
> 
> _"Hey horney, how about I grab you..."_ - followed by a wink, and giving her that look with a smile on my face.
> 
> ...


I think this is quite misleading.
Did you read all conversations between them? Also, he is taking care for home besides his full time job.
All she dos at home is reading reading reading......
She avoids talking with him, and during all conversation, she is just trying to answer with any words and get over.
She shows not a bit of intention to make it work. She has no concern what he is feeling, how the kids are........
You don't have to be good wife or good mother, .... just a normal person would not do it.
He is telling how much he gets upset about her outing with boss regardless how many people are there, he is upset about this and obviously in pain. As solution she is suggesting game night with boss.
It does not matter she slept with boss or not. She shows not a bit of care when he is in pain.......... Is not this enough?
And you are asking him to make more effort.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Maia.2022 said:


> I think this is quite misleading.
> Did you read all conversations between them? Also, he is taking care for home besides his full time job.
> All she dos at home is reading reading reading......
> She avoids talking with him, and during all conversation, she is just trying to answer with any words and get over.
> ...


Your perspective is appreciated and your heart is in the right place but you are not married and you do not have sufficient perspective.

I do see his problem and understand his concern very clearly. My wife is a working lady and she have male colleagues as well. Her own supervisor is a man and likes her. She is relatively young in her work environment as well. I am very observant (eyes open) but I also have GAME of my own.

Being jealous, lazy, and accusatory - these are bad characteristics. This is how a man can push his wife away.

The husband have work to do and he gets my point and perspective which his for his benefit. I am telling him to consider having quality time with his wife and revisit his communication themes (allow her to open up to him and vent) because she is fed up with his "insecurities." She is finding quality time with her colleagues and reads a lot when she is at home to avoid clashes with her husband, or she is really upset.

I have NOT told him to allow his wife to date her boss. Not once in my post.

_"What you need to do is to convince her to keep her interactions with her boss "professional." He is SINGLE and can afford to play around [after] office hours, but your wife is a married woman and her family should be her top priority in her life now."_

I am telling him how to fix his problem. I am advising him how to shape her friendships by suggesting boundaries.

_"Then tell her that you understand her need to have friends in life *but* *they should be friends of your marriage as well.* They should allow you to join them when your wife is hanging out with them [after] office hours - your wife should let them know that you might decide to join them out of the blue (they should expect this)*. She is NOT allowed to consume alcohol with them either. This is how it works for married people. These are the boundaries."_

STEP - BY - STEP to fix his marital problems.

Applying hammer can backfire on the husband if he is being lazy, insecure, and accusatory all the time. He should rediscover himself and his GAME - something he probably used to have but lost it.

Let us see how things work out for him but suggestions from men in successful marriages are important for him.

Marital problems can be years in the making - they do not have quick fixes.

There are many horror stories in the infidelity section. You may check them out.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Your perspective is appreciated and your heart is in the right place but you are not married and you do not have sufficient perspective.
> 
> I do see his problem and understand his concern very clearly. My wife is a working lady and she have male colleagues as well. Her own supervisor is a man and likes her. She is relatively young in her work environment as well. I am very observant (eyes open) but I also have GAME of my own.
> 
> ...


It needs two people to work to make it work.
She does not need to be a good wife, just as a normal person, if it is making someone in her family so much in pain, why on earth she is repeating it?! Only one answer, it is more important than her husband feeling or their relationship, going out with her boss!
Look at the whole conversation, she has not even a bit of compassion empathy. Someone next to you is in pain! She has no care,...... Not even a bit of effort to make him feel a bit easier, in stead continue upsetting him.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Your perspective is appreciated and your heart is in the right place but you are not married and you do not have sufficient perspective.
> 
> I do see his problem and understand his concern very clearly. My wife is a working lady and she have male colleagues as well. Her own supervisor is a man and likes her. She is relatively young in her work environment as well. I am very observant (eyes open) but I also have GAME of my own.
> 
> ...


It does not matter infidelity happened or not. He is upset about it, then she should just stop it, unless it is more important than her husband feeling. The more I read his story, the more I think this woman is totally cold hearten.
Just as a normal person, average person, people stop somethign that is making another person very upset, unless that thing is something more important than any one!


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Your perspective is appreciated and your heart is in the right place but you are not married and you do not have sufficient perspective.
> 
> I do see his problem and understand his concern very clearly. My wife is a working lady and she have male colleagues as well. Her own supervisor is a man and likes her. She is relatively young in her work environment as well. I am very observant (eyes open) but I also have GAME of my own.
> 
> ...


Also, I think a normal woman with 3 children, 2 of them must be still young, can be so carefree and hangout after work. This is absolutely not normal.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> _She is NOT allowed to consume alcohol with them either. _


Do you actually think this is possible?!


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> You have objected to it, right?


I objected to the boss being included only. Not the game night. I said I'd have a problem with him being there... "He's part of that group and shouldn't exclude him, he probably won't come" is what she replied with.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I objected to the boss being included only. Not the game night. I said I'd have a problem with him being there...


Right. This is exactly what I have been talking about!
You were upset about her outing with her boss, regardless how many are there, you are upset about this, and obviously in pain.
And to make things better, she is suggesting game night including her boss!
What a cold hearten woman!



> "He's part of that group and shouldn't exclude him, he probably won't come" is what she replied with.


There are 7.7 billion on the planet.
Then she could easily invite antoehr group!
Not the group with her boss!!!!!!!!!
I feel furious to go through all the conversation. How do you put up with it?!


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

@Maia.2022 I did ask her if she cared about my concerns, she said she did but that was it..
Idk I guess I didn't get upset about it, just expressed my dislike of him coming.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Flyaway9768 said:


> @Maia.2022 I did ask her if she cared about my concerns, she said she did but that was it..
> Idk I guess I didn't get upset about it, just expressed my dislike of him coming.


I think as a grown up we do not really care what people say as much as what they do.
What she do never shows any concern on you or childrn.

Besides her income, what contribution is she making? you are doign house work, taking care for children........
The conversation between you two, just suffocating to read..................
This is your choice and if you think this is ok.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

Maia.2022 said:


> I think as a grown up we do not really care what people say as much as what they do.
> What she do never shows any concern on you or childrn.
> 
> Besides her income, what contribution is she making? you are doign house work, taking care for children........
> ...


I mean she does help with the children, she does have more time for herself than myself,. I do a majority of the house work and cooking yes.. it's how we've always been though..


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Flyaway9768

Your wife is not cheating but she's heading toward checking out because you have turned into an overly anxious smothering wet blanket. Most of your problems are of your own making. Get some therapy & be more fun. 

She goes out to unwind & talk to adults who want to talk about things other than "OMG I'm so anxious." She reads books about strong men because she likes strong men. You can become that again if you let yourself. She wants to spend time with you but when she invites you sulk & are no fun. You ruin it for everybody. Stop doing that & be more engaging or at least less annoying. 

You have a job & you clearly love your kids. But your insecurities are making you crazy which in turn makes you unattractive to her based on your personality manifestations not the way you look. Work on yourself. Be positive. Say supportive loving things to your wife but be decisive. 

Somebody's suggestion was go for walks. When she's reading & not paying attention to you, don't snivel & sit there & seethe because she's not paying attention to you. Get up announce that you are going for a walk. Hold our your hand & say "come with me" not so much as a question but more as a mild command. Show her that you are a take charge guy who is fun to be around. Even if she doesn't agree to go on the walk with you, go anyway. You want to show her that you are decisive & independent. Find a hobby & engage in it so you have something that makes you happy apart from her. You need to live again. Right now you are just existing. 

You said you both had fun on your date night the other day. Do more of that.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I mean she does help with the children, she does have more time for herself than myself,. I do a majority of the house work and cooking yes.. it's how we've always been though..


Not exactly right phrase, but it has a few layers of meanings: One wants to beat, the other one is willing to be beaten.


https://www.wordsense.eu/%E5%91%A8%E7%91%9C%E6%89%93%E9%BB%84%E7%9B%96/


I think your life will go on like this forever,.......
From time to time, you can come to the forum and release some stress.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I objected to the boss being included only. Not the game night. I said I'd have a problem with him being there... "He's part of that group and shouldn't exclude him, he probably won't come" is what she replied with.


*IF* your wife is planning this meetup then she can decide who can join her in this meetup.

*IF* her boss (or another colleague) is planning this meetup then your wife is not in the position to decide who can join in this meetup.

This is how it works.

You should ask her *who* is planning this meetup. *IF* she is planning it then tell her to *NOT* invite her boss *but* YOU. *IF* her boss or another colleague is planning this meetup then she should excuse herself from it for your sake. 

Her boss is SINGLE - you can make this the basis for your objection to your wife spending time with him [after] office hours. 

You should tell your wife that you are *NOT* against her having friends *but* her friends should be friends of your marriage as well. This is how it works for married couples.

Your previous update suggests that your wife is listening to you which is good. *Allow her to open up to you because you will have a better prespective of her situation in this manner. *You also need to be confident, and a better husband to her.

You should tell your wife that *both* (you and her) need to have a better relationship dynamic for the trust to develop [further] between the two of you. Assure your wife that you will prioritize having quality time with her *but* you expect her to show better commitment to you by spending more time with you and your kids. Assure her that you love her and really want your relationship to work. That your words should match your actions, and you expect the same from her.

I hope that your next update will be more meaningful. 

Keep us informed.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

I agree with @LeGenDary_Man Outside friends must be friends of the marriage. That said, it might be healthier for @Flyaway9768 to go to the game night & have fun with the wife's colleagues. If he can show up & not sulk it sounds to me like the wife wants him there but she doesn't want the wet blanket version who puts a damper on the whole thing.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

@Flyaway9768
I just dont understand, why cant say clearly " i dont want you to hang out with XZ as long as we are married, unless you want a divorce"
simple as this - she likes men with power and you are not displaying a power even in marriage. you displayed weakness and hesitance then she goes to work and gathering and see her boss as confidence decision maker. good job to you 

and even take it to the next level, request a poly. if she says " you dont trust me?" then tell her I dont because of 1, 2 and 3

how difficult is that?

I swear you are kind of a guy that you would forgive her if you found out she had slept with her boss


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

D0nnivain said:


> I agree with @LeGenDary_Man Outside friends must be friends of the marriage. That said, it might be healthier for @Flyaway9768 to go to the game night & have fun with the wife's colleagues. If he can show up & not sulk it sounds to me like the wife wants him there but she doesn't want the wet blanket version who puts a damper on the whole thing.


You read my mind, bro. 

@Flyaway9768

*IF* her boss or another colleague is planning this meetup then she should excuse herself from it for your sake. In this case, you should offer to take her out for the board game instead. You can allow her best friend(s) to join as well - those you approve of. This is how you demonstrate leadership and have fun.

Let us know how she responds.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> *IF* your wife is planning this meetup then she can decide who can join her in this meetup.
> 
> *IF* her boss (or another colleague) is planning this meetup then your wife is not in the position to decide who can join in this meetup.
> 
> ...


I asked who was planning it, she said she would and it would be at our house.. I asked if I was against her boss coming what would she day/do.. she said she wouldn't have game night or invite just one other couple instead because it would put her in an awkward position to not invite one of usual "the group". I asked if someone else made it and she asked me to go and I said I wouldn't she said she would ask to go and I would need a valid reason for not wanting to go... (Like illness). 
Has she just established too much of a relationship with this group at this point? Idk how to process this...she says she'd take my feelings into consideration but only for a valid reason ..


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> I agree with @LeGenDary_Man Outside friends must be friends of the marriage. That said, it might be healthier for @Flyaway9768 to go to the game night & have fun with the wife's colleagues. If he can show up & not sulk it sounds to me like the wife wants him there but she doesn't want the wet blanket version who puts a damper on the whole thing.


This isn't such a bad idea... I should go and not sulk or glare... And give it a chance..


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

It’s normal to go to happy hours with coworkers without your spouse.

If she’s not messing around I suggest you just forget it. If you need help with that there are plenty of psychologists and such who I’m sure would be happy to help. If you need to verify her happy hours are without incident, get a PI.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

blackclover3 said:


> @Flyaway9768
> I just dont understand, why cant say clearly " i dont want you to hang out with XZ as long as we are married, unless you want a divorce"
> simple as this - she likes men with power and you are not displaying a power even in marriage. you displayed weakness and hesitance then she goes to work and gathering and see her boss as confidence decision maker. good job to you
> 
> ...


Now i can understand why another post, may be a couple of posts said: man up.
What kind of man is this?



> I swear you are kind of a guy that you would forgive her if you found out she had slept with her boss


I totally agree with you, and I was going to say this, but you wrote first. I feel suffocated to see.
A few cuddling from her will do the job, lol.
Sorry i am getting mean, but this guy is really suffocating.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I asked who was planning it, she said she would and it would be at our house.. I asked if I was against her boss coming what would she day/do.. she said she wouldn't have game night or invite just one other couple instead because it would put her in an awkward position to not invite one of usual "the group". I asked if someone else made it and she asked me to go and I said I wouldn't she said she would ask to go and I would need a valid reason for not wanting to go... (Like illness).
> Has she just established too much of a relationship with this group at this point? Idk how to process this...she says she'd take my feelings into consideration but only for a valid reason ..


Man up!
This is my final advice!


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I asked who was planning it, she said she would and it would be at our house.. I asked if I was against her boss coming what would she day/do.. she said she wouldn't have game night or invite just one other couple instead because it would put her in an awkward position to not invite one of usual "the group". I asked if someone else made it and she asked me to go and I said I wouldn't she said she would ask to go and I would need a valid reason for not wanting to go... (Like illness).
> Has she just established too much of a relationship with this group at this point? Idk how to process this...she says she'd take my feelings into consideration but only for a valid reason ..



she is making all the excuses in the world to keep her boss invited.
let her know that you will report it to HR
bosses should not be joining employees hang outs unless it is an event

she cant make the boundaries then let her know you will talk to HR and you will talk to her Boss
or she can look for another job

have you ever read any threads about bad boys and women are attracted to men with strong personality?

I bet if the shoes were reversed she will not allow you to do the same thing (lets say she is stay home mom). 

you need to look for yourself now and move on - stop torturing yourself

fill divorce paper and dont sign it and hand it to her. that will make her wake up from her novels when she realize she is losing her house and family. 

basically she is telling
1- im not going to stop or change what im doing
2- im not going to stop hanging out with the guy i like
3- F you and your Feeling 

does that make it clear to you - you are unable to see you it this way because you are masking your feelings. you are being needy in her eyes.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I asked who was planning it, she said she would and it would be at our house.. I asked if I was against her boss coming what would she day/do.. she said she wouldn't have game night or invite just one other couple instead because it would put her in an awkward position to not invite one of usual "the group". I asked if someone else made it and she asked me to go and I said I wouldn't she said she would ask to go and I would need a valid reason for not wanting to go... (Like illness).
> Has she just established too much of a relationship with this group at this point? Idk how to process this...she says she'd take my feelings into consideration but only for a valid reason ..


IMO you are sabotaging your marriage. Your wife is all but screaming that she needs a strong man in her life and you are not filling that need, but you could if you got your head on straight.

She is right about inviting the boss to this game night idea. It sounds like these biweekly get togethers have been going on for a long time and inviting everyone in that group except him is going to make her look pretty bad. She would be forced to lie or she would have to tell her boss that you are comfortable with him being around her. That would put her in a pretty awkward position at work.

You guys really, really need to do more things together. You can easily take the lead on that, rather than whining about what she is doing and who she is doing it with. Go to those biweekly cocktail hours and enjoy the adult company with her. To me that is an opportunity to show everyone how close you are to your wife. @D0nnivain made a great suggestion of taking getting her to go on a walk with you. It is an easy opportunity to show you aren't weak and whiny.

I believe mate guarding is something a husband should do, but simply whining about things you don't like isn't effective.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

blackclover3 said:


> she is making all the excuses in the world to keep her boss invited.


So her logic is like, if she invites the group at work and skips the boss, that would make her situation awkward.
There are 7.7 biollion on the world! Why must that stupid work group!

I do not think the wife has problem, but he himself has problem. Why let this go on?!!!!!!!!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

blackclover3 said:


> she is making all the excuses in the world to keep her boss invited.
> let her know that you will report it to HR
> bosses should not be joining employees hang outs unless it is an event
> 
> ...


She is pushing the boundaries, but I think it is being brought on or at least exacerbated by his actions and words. Her reading habits make it obvious that she is dreaming of having a strong man in her life. Right now her boss is filling that hole that her husband can't or won't. This can be fixed pretty easily in my mind. He needs to take a leadership role and make them a couple again, doing everything they can together. If she wants to go out every other week to socialize, fine, he is right there with her. If she is reading, tell he to mark her spot, take her hand and go do something together.

One thing for sure, continuing to just whine and continuously bring this topic up over and over again with no real action is just going to keep pushing her further away.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

Maia.2022 said:


> Now i can understand why another post, may be a couple of posts said: man up.
> What kind of man is this?
> 
> 
> ...


@Maia.2022 I'm suffocating for him by just reading his post about his suffering. there is a solution but he is just looking for away to justify her doing without losing her. it is about her feeling, it is about me losing her, ........etc

it is crazy to see, every cheating scenario on this site have 1 thing in common, the male is doormat, Beta , unable to draw the lines, soft and lack of self confidence. and all female cheaters cheated with the opposite personality.

this guy doesn't want to take an advice from people who been through it.

@Flyaway9768 - you are going to end not only losing your wife but your kids as well to another man. because you are not able to draw the lines early and take the necessary measurements.

*I stand firm for*
1- No need for marriage counseling - why you should pay for another Man's being confident/pretty in the eyes of your wife. that money should go to your kids

2- start acting like you are getting divorce, prepare mentally and financially. consult an attorney. you are dont have to go through divorce. this is just awake up call. if this was not enough to wake her then you lost her long time ago

3- do 360 - no speaking or interaction with her - in fact stop doing your house chores and let her take the responsibilities - let her feel what it means to be a single mom

4- enroll in the gym, workout like nuts and forget she exists

5- start sleeping in another room

6- spend more time with your kids alone. take them to theaters, parks all good stuff. let them remember you and not her

7- separate your bank accounts, credit cards, debts....

marriage is partnership between two - if god forbid my wife asks me to stop hanging out with my friends or particular people because she is hurting then F that person. no one is WORTH making the slightest dent to her feeling or my family.

Marriage is about two people moving forward together - and your wife would like to move forward with 10+ people and carry her boss - because she likes him.

your wife is checked out and making you are safe net when she falls. even if takes her family with it.

@Flyaway9768 it shouldn't be that hard for her to change what she is doing if she has the slightest respect for you.
I bet you $1000,000 if her boss asked her to stop hanging with one of her female friend she will do that immediately and will not invite them to the gathering.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

blackclover3 said:


> have you ever read any threads about bad boys and women are attracted to men with strong personality?


I am wondering what about women with strong personality? Are they attractive to men?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

blackclover3 said:


> she is making all the excuses in the world to keep her boss invited.
> let her know that you will report it to HR
> bosses should not be joining employees hang outs unless it is an event


This is ridiculous. A boss who doesn’t hang out with employees outside work is doing it wrong especially in a close unit; for one thing that person should be there to expense the bar bill when possible.



Maia.2022 said:


> So her logic is like, if she invites the group at work and skips the boss, that would make her situation awkward.
> There are 7.7 biollion on the world! Why must that stupid work group!


Of course it would be awkward. This guy is at all the happy hours and stuff and you cut him off because of the neurotic husband?

It would be better for her to explain she’s not hanging out after work because her husband asked her not to. They’ll think she has a square husband but they’ll get it. Her social network will degrade which is really not great… but at least her husband will be happy until the next thing he fixates on.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I asked who was planning it, she said she would and it would be at our house.. I asked if I was against her boss coming what would she day/do.. she said she wouldn't have game night or invite just one other couple instead because it would put her in an awkward position to not invite one of usual "the group".


Your wife already spends 40 hours a week working with this group which includes her boss. She spends additional time socializing with this group which includes her boss. If you want to get to know this group and how the men in this group interact with your wife, why would you exclude the boss? 

If you want to take control of the situation, have game night at your house and see who comes. The men that do not want to socialize with you are the ones that you should be concerned about. Also, for those that come, pay attention to such things as how much touching goes on, and who your wife prioritizes in this group. Watch how your wife responds to your touches.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> IMO you are sabotaging your marriage. Your wife is all but screaming that she needs a strong man in her life and you are not filling that need, but you could if you got your head on straight.
> 
> She is right about inviting the boss to this game night idea. It sounds like these biweekly get togethers have been going on for a long time and inviting everyone in that group except him is going to make her look pretty bad. She would be forced to lie or she would have to tell her boss that you are comfortable with him being around her. That would put her in a pretty awkward position at work.
> 
> ...


This is spot on 💯

Your wife should respect your concerns and help you overcome fears, even if it means some behavior modifications. Same thing would apply to you.

But you can't be a whiny controlling s.o.b. either. You can't lock her away or prevent her from having friends. This whole group thing has been going on for a while so you can't blow it up without good reason. And your unsupported fear isn't enough. That would push her even farther away.

Find ways to be the man in her life and take your marriage back. With an open mind, get involved with the group _every time_ and _everywhere_ ... get to know these people. Including the boss. You will know soon enough if there's a problem or not.

Be a strong leader, communicate your boundaries and let the chips fall where they may.
But if you treat her unfairly and out of petty jealousy (ie, not love and respect), you will kill the marriage for sure.

And get in MC asap!


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

Maia.2022 said:


> I am wondering what about women with strong personality? Are they attractive to men?


yes they are, but mostly smart women who are talkative. 
Smart, strong and attactive is a full package. and if the man is not getting that in his marriage and hang out with such woman (that likes him back) then the marriage is 100% will fail. 
again, no one is perfect, our brain always trick us that the other person is perfect because we always looking for what we miss but not the whole picture. the whole picture is family, kids, husband/wife history together and more
we think the lawn is greener on the other side and once we step on the other side we find that either there are a lot of of yellow patching or the new lawn requires frequent maintenance such as fertilizers, more watering, more seeding and... in order to not lose it. 

women are the same way if not even worse. women typically focus on one thing and are driven by their emotions. they dont look at positive things in their marriage but negatives. hold grudges and not forgiven. and when they feel prince charming at work shows up that they their tickets to ride the white horse. once that prince take her for a break in a shed or under the tree he will ride his hose and leave her behind. 

sorry for typos, i travel for work and between flight i use touch screen to type


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> This is spot on 💯
> 
> Your wife should respect your concerns and help you overcome fears, even if it means some behavior modifications. Same thing would apply to you.
> 
> ...


she is refusing to do things together. 
the ongoing events is her story 
and yes, she has the right to not join


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> This is ridiculous. A boss who doesn’t hang out with employees outside work is doing it wrong especially in a close unit; for one thing that person should be there to expense the bar bill when possible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


have you been reading his posts?

she is ignoring her husband and read erotic novels about boss with coworkers
she is ignoring his needs to spend more time with him
she made it clear she is reading to ignore him and not communicate 
she acknowledge his concerns and fears and not doing anything about them. 

I come from corporate, and HR during managers boarding or training make it clear that the boss can have gathering or even as part of team bonding. but hanging out every week or other week after hours with the team this is a disaster to play favorites. 

I'm all hanging out with coworkers or groups - it is great that everyone close to their bosses. 
but she is not attending her family needs before her boss or her group

it is like, a husband who lives next to a beautiful woman who ride horses. then the wife catches her husband watching port about banging female neighbor who ride horses. then husband becomes more and more attracted to horses and only talk about horses. the husband spend more time visiting horse ranches with his attractive neighbor because all of the sudden he finds a like to horses ( lol despite watching western movies, shows with horses, national Geographics all his life)

how does that sound? now add to this, it is the wife's fault and insecure for questioning her husbands like for horses.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I asked who was planning it, she said she would and it would be at our house.. I asked if I was against her boss coming what would she day/do.. she said she wouldn't have game night or invite just one other couple instead because it would put her in an awkward position to not invite one of usual "the group". I asked if someone else made it and she asked me to go and I said I wouldn't she said she would ask to go and I would need a valid reason for not wanting to go... (Like illness).
> Has she just established too much of a relationship with this group at this point? Idk how to process this...she says she'd take my feelings into consideration but only for a valid reason ..


This is BETTER actually. IF your house is the venue for this meetup then no problem. IF she wants to invite her GROUP of Friends including her Boss to your house for board game(s) then this is fine.

Make sure that you are prepared for this meetup. You should have the necessary arrangements for it. You should be in your house during this meetup.

You should agree to this proposal, and meet these people and judge them. This is your opportunity. Be nice and polite to them including her boss.

Tell your wife that you would love to meet her friends including her boss. But let her know in very clear terms that you will NOT allow her to meet and have fun time with her boss [after office hours] in any Public Venue *unless* he invites you there. Your relationship dynamic is NOT mature enough for this engagement to continue outside your presence for now. This is a line that you have drawn for her. Period.

You should date and take your wife out more often. Try to build your rapport with her friends as well.

I love to go out with my wife. For Dinners; Walks; Movies; Ice Cream; Shopping; Games - everything.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

...


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

blackclover3 said:


> she is refusing to do things together.
> the ongoing events is her story
> and yes, she has the right to not join


I don't think she is refusing to do things together. She is good with him attending the get togethers, she just doesn't want him to mope around and be a wet blanket, which it sounds like he has done in the past.

As for the excess reading, he really needs to man up. I don't care for that term, but I don't know how else to put it. I haven't seen OP say one word in this thread about taking any kind of concrete action. Just more talking and whining.

A long time ago my wife used to work for a company that was very social, including the boss/owner. It was mixed gender and there was sadly a lot of infidelity issues with employees there. I wasn't a very social person, but I made it a point to go to every event with her. The social events weren't mandatory, but if you wanted to do well there you pretty much had to be there at least most of the time. It was very clear to every person there that we were solidly married, inseparable and that my wife was off limits or you would be dealing with me. I did all that by always being there with her and being confident in who and what I was. The bottom line is be a man, be a husband, not a whiny guy sitting at home. You can take charge and man up without controlling your wife to the point not letting her do anything with friends.

Now if I was truly uncomfortable with a situation or my wife being around someone my wife wouldn't hesitate do what I asked. Same for me. But I wouldn't be doing it due to my insecurities. I think OP has obvious insecurity issues that are obvious to the wife and I bet he has a track record of whining about every social thing she does, and never actually takes action. I think he is past the point of just telling her to not go. I think he needs to insert himself into the social circle. It will be good for him and her.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Maia.2022 said:


> More likely all these efforts are going to be fruitless.
> But the OP will go on live like this.


He is getting valuable advice, and can fix his marital problems. A man should strive for self-development and fight for his marriage when it is going through a rough patch. Family comes first.

WE should encourage him to define marital boundaries and address his insecurities.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> He is getting valuable advice, and can fix his marital problems. A man should strive for self-development and fight for his marriage when it is going through a rough patch. Family comes first.
> 
> WE should encourage him to define marital boundaries and address his insecurities.


Believe it or not I am taking notes in these suggestions and going to apply them. I need to be a better man and a better husband. I need to stop whining and be more assertive. She wants a strong man then I need to be that for her and my family.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

....


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Maia.2022 said:


> Hope it can work out.
> But I do see little hope if not no hope.
> She already lost total interest in him, and is thinking more fun somewhere outside.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are saying, but I'm not so sure that the marriage is already doomed. I don't see going out every other week or so with coworkers is a sign she has totally lost interest in him. The situation does definitely require him to do something different. What he has been doing hasn't worked, so a new approach is required. 


@Flyaway9768 How is your marriage other than the issues you mentioned here? Do you "date" your wife? How is your sex life?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I've read the 437 pages, but I still don't know how many times a week the wife goes to bingo and drinks after work and what time she is back?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

blackclover3 said:


> have you been reading his posts?


Enough of them, yes.



blackclover3 said:


> she is ignoring her husband and read erotic novels about boss with coworkers


I missed the part where she reads erotic novels where her boss is the protagonist in a book club with her coworkers.



blackclover3 said:


> she is ignoring his needs to spend more time with him


What if he’s smothering? I would ignore that as well.



blackclover3 said:


> she made it clear she is reading to ignore him and not communicate


Maybe he’s annoying?



blackclover3 said:


> I come from corporate, and HR during managers boarding or training make it clear that the boss can have gathering or even as part of team bonding. but hanging out every week or other week after hours with the team this is a disaster to play favorites.


Oh good! We wouldn’t want to make corporate HR upset by having fun!



blackclover3 said:


> how does that sound?


Slightly unhinged.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

His wife said that outside of the marriage, she had to invite the boss to the game night and the boss wouldn't come anyway.

It's hard to see that the relationship is over, but the woman's actions explain the situation.

He should offer a polygraph, but his wife won't accept it because when he manipulates her husband and raises trust and personality issues, he shuts himself down.

it should go on like this, divorce is not on the table and the woman will not confess.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> I've read the 437 pages, but I still don't know how many times a week the wife goes to bingo and drinks after work and what time she is back?


There was a partial answer - every other week.

Even the other day when he had the talk, OP opened with wife was late coming home.....



Flyaway9768 said:


> She was home late which already had me anxious



I'm curious where she actually is and if these meetups are always group meet ups.

Now that OP has complained again and stated his concerns... don't do it again. Time to start to changing your actions.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

re16 said:


> There was a partial answer - every other week.
> 
> Even the other day when he had the talk, OP opened with wife was late coming home.....


She is going out once every other week for bingo and a drink with colleagues and he is complaining? It's not like she stays out after work every day... is this reprehensible behaviour?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> She is going out once every other week for bingo and a drink with colleagues and he is complaining? It's not like she stays out after work every day... is this reprehensible behaviour?


Ten years, 25 x per year... call it 250 times of not being invited to hang out, or only getting go once... while she is out drinking with this group seems a little off.

If there is nothing nefarious going on, he should go more often (and not have an attitude) if she is actually ok with it....


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

re16 said:


> Ten years, 25 x per year... call it 250 times of not being invited to hang out, or only getting go once... while she is out drinking with this group seems a little off.
> 
> If there is nothing nefarious going on, he should go more often (and not have an attitude) if she is actually ok with it....


I think the wife explained the reason why he is not invited? I get the feeling she is having a little fun occasionally before returning to the jealous and insecure husband of hers. Like she needs a break from time to time. Doesn’t sound unreasonable to me. 250 days out of 3,650 is not a lot, is it?


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

> blackclover3 said:
> ]she made it clear she is reading to ignore him and not communicate
> Maybe he’s annoying?


I would agree that I am.. and I will lay off, chill out and work on being a better person/man/husband.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I would agree that I am.. and I will lay off, chill out and work on being a better person/man/husband.


You need to do things yourself that make you happy.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

*@Flyaway9768 *

You seem like a good guy. Try to remember that your wife married you because she loves you. She chose you! Be the man she thinks you are. Work on your self confidence. Google the phrase & do some exercises to boost your own self esteem until you can get into therapy. You need IC before MC can help. 

These co-workers are her friends. There is nothing nefarious here, except in your mind. She spends time with people she enjoys. End of story. On her leisure time she wants to include you & she wants you to have fun. Try doing that. Get to know her co-workers. You may end up liking them. Since she loves you & likes her boss enough to socialize with him, I bet you two have a lot in common. If you can calm your insecurities enough to get to know him, you may make a friend yourself. 

Whatever you do, do not act like you are getting a divorce, give her ultimatums, demand a polygraph or call the HR department at her work (assuming the company is even big enough to have one.) You call HR & you undermine her authority, air your dirty laundry in public & basically tell her company she is untrustworthy based on nothing more than your unfounded fears. If my husband humiliated me like that, damn straight I'd be filing for divorce in a heartbeat. No amount of I'm sorry's could ever fix that. It would be unforgiveable IMHO. 

During this game night at your house you are on your home turf. Use that to your advantage. Be a gracious host. Talk to everyone. Be disarming & listen more then you speak but make sure you casually touch your wife & be appropriately flirty with her to "mark your territory". You should learn a lot by being observant. If you can remove your fear filter & try to have fun playing the games, I hope the evidence reassures you. If they start playing NSFW games like Trust or Dare, I Never, or Spin the Bottle that is a whole other set of problems.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

...


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

...


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

Maia.2022 said:


> Does it matter anyway?
> In terms of emotional affair, 99% yes.
> In terms of physical affair, we do not know. He can find out by hiring PI, but why should he do that?
> If he find out yes, he will stay in marriage anyway and with more pain and anxiety.
> ...


Can I just say you are very negative.. 
I can see why there's a lot of emphasis on the "cheating" side.. But is that really all you're going to focus on.. 
I guess I started this thread to see what others thought on what was going on, if it's a me issue (which I already thought) or a her issue.. You've painted this picture that she's some lazy, fun-loving boozer woman.. She goes out with friends maybe once every 2 weeks or so, depends on how everyone else's schedule works.. Does she do housework like a good "housewife" should? No, she's never been that way though, before we had kids (just the oldest I had) I did all the chores.. It's just worked for us.. Do I get frustrated with it, yea but I've come to terms with that.. 
as for the accusations.. My mind goes to those places..but she's shown me and I've found zero evidence to prove that anything has or will happen. Call me ignorant or whatever for saying that but I honestly in my heart know she's not been unfaithful.. in my mind, maybe. 
The other advice some have mentioned or given seem to be on par for what's happening.. She doesn't want to hang out with me and her friends because I'm a "wet blanket" and do pout and try not to have a good time.. That's not her fault. She sits there worrying if I'm having fun knowing I'm not. I don't like the one guy (Boss), but, she has a valid point in not inviting him as they work together and are a group of friends. I can't deny her that and I can't force her to put herself in an awkward position with not inviting him. 
I think the PI, You are, you need to, get a divorce needs to pump the brakes a bit..


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> *@Flyaway9768 *
> 
> You seem like a good guy. Try to remember that your wife married you because she loves you. She chose you! Be the man she thinks you are. Work on your self confidence. Google the phrase & do some exercises to boost your own self esteem until you can get into therapy. You need IC before MC can help.
> 
> ...



this....this is helpful. Thank you. I really mean that.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

...


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Flyaway9768 said:


> Can I just say you are very negative..
> I can see why there's a lot of emphasis on the "cheating" side.. But is that really all you're going to focus on..
> I guess I started this thread to see what others thought on what was going on, if it's a me issue (which I already thought) or a her issue.. You've painted this picture that she's some lazy, fun-loving boozer woman.. She goes out with friends maybe once every 2 weeks or so, depends on how everyone else's schedule works.. Does she do housework like a good "housewife" should? No, she's never been that way though, before we had kids (just the oldest I had) I did all the chores.. It's just worked for us.. Do I get frustrated with it, yea but I've come to terms with that..
> as for the accusations.. My mind goes to those places..but she's shown me and I've found zero evidence to prove that anything has or will happen. Call me ignorant or whatever for saying that but I honestly in my heart know she's not been unfaithful.. in my mind, maybe.
> ...


There can be posts and statements that you can choose to ignore if you do not find them helpful. But every post have value.

Allow me to set things straight here.

1. You are NOT a bad person.

2. You are NOT a bad husband. You do household chores - this is rather _underappreciated_ work on your part. You should involve your wife in household chores to some extent in my view - she should know that these tasks have value and can be draining.

3. Your wife is NOT perfect. You should NOT spoil her, or give her too much freedom. This is bad for your marriage.

4. Your mind is NOT all over the place - you have some genuine concerns as a husband. There are things that you see in person, and they have bugged you enough to seek advice in relevant platform(s) - you made the right call. Your wife have certainly demonstrated questionable behavior (reading too many erotic stories at home instead of having quality time with YOU; she is rather having quality time with her colleagues and boss in particular). You must define and enforce boundaries for your marriage. Your wife is somewhat spoiled in my honest opinion. You need to put her back on track again.

The expected meetup in your house is an opportunity for you to meet, interact with, and observe her friends including her boss up close. Avail this opportunity as advised *but* keep your eyes open. You have concerns about her boss - completely understandable. They might choose to be sober in your house as well. I would not jump to conclusion from this meetup alone.

Remember this suggestion:

_"Tell your wife that you would love to meet her friends including her boss. But let her know in very clear terms that you will NOT allow her to meet and have fun time with her boss [after office hours] in any Public Venue *unless* he invites you there. Your relationship dynamic is NOT mature enough for this engagement to continue outside your presence for now. This is a line that you have drawn for her. Period." _









My insecurities and jealousy


I agree with @LeGenDary_Man Outside friends must be friends of the marriage. That said, it might be healthier for @Flyaway9768 to go to the game night & have fun with the wife's colleagues. If he can show up & not sulk it sounds to me like the wife wants him there but she doesn't want the...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





5. You mentioned 'your problems', and some members including ME advised you how to address them.

You have POINTERS for how to address your "insecurities." WE told you how to improve yourself and become a better man (and husband). It is important for you to be strong and decisive as a man. You must be prepared for the WORST as well.

In your words:

_"as for the accusations.. My mind goes to those places..but she's shown me and I've found zero evidence to prove that anything has or will happen. Call me ignorant or whatever for saying that but I honestly in my heart know she's not been unfaithful.. in my mind, maybe."_

You are [already] making excuses for your wife (Look! She is PERFECT. She can do NO wrong). You tend to assume that ONLY YOU have "problems." This is why I continue to insist that you have insecurities to address on a personal level, bro.

You CANNOT be certain about anything too soon. You will need SIX MONTHS at minimum to see where things are heading for your relationship. Refer back to point 3 above.

You can be an excellent partner yourself but everything is NOT in your control. It takes two to tango in the end. WE cannot tell much about your wife in fact. WE do not know what is in her mind. You have expectations from your wife; do NOT forget this. She MUST respect your concerns. Your relationship dynamic is NOT mature enough for you to allow your wife to continue to have quality time with her colleagues and her boss in particular [after office hours] on a frequent basis because they do NOT invite you in their meetups. They have NOT proven to be friends of your marriage YET. Some members do NOT see a problem in this case but their relationship dynamic is relatively mature as well. Keep this in mind.

You should neither beat yourself too much and nor jump to conclusions too soon. You have work to do.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I do think she still loves me.. I don't believe she has or will do anything to jeopardize our marriage.. I think she's just sick of my ****.


Then you are in complete denial.

Have fun tasting him when you kiss your wife.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

See if your wife would be interested in reading “Not Just Friends”. 

I guess actually catch your wife in the act is the only way to open your eyes.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I objected to the boss being included only. Not the game night. I said I'd have a problem with him being there... "He's part of that group and shouldn't exclude him, he probably won't come" is what she replied with.


He probably won’t come because he is pissed that she is still with you. He is doing his best to get her to stop having sex with you. She would out right leave because of the kids.

So, all of her books are about men in power?!?! Do you mean wives cheating with their boss? Trash novels?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Flyaway9768 said:


> This isn't such a bad idea... I should go and not sulk or glare... And give it a chance..


There are cheaters that try and gets their spouse and AP to become friends. Easier to be around one another.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Flyaway9768 said:


> Believe it or not I am taking notes in these suggestions and going to apply them. I need to be a better man and a better husband. I need to stop whining and be more assertive. She wants a strong man then I need to be that for her and my family.


Start by reading NMMNG


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Flyaway9768 said:


> Believe it or not I am taking notes in these suggestions and going to apply them. I need to be a better man and a better husband. I need to stop whining and be more assertive. She wants a strong man then I need to be that for her and my family.


This sounds like playing pick me!!

It will not work because you are doing for the wrong reason. She will see straight through it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

@Flyaway9768 
You do seem to have some mental/emotional problems that do need worked out. That being said, your wife's behavior isn't totally above board and certainly not helping.

I have no insecurities or jealousies and I would react negatively to my wife behaving as yours does.

Her boss would learn to fear me and my wife would step up and protect our marriage or she could f off with her boss into the sunset because I don't play.

I'm telling you this because I'm a different creature than you and I find some of your wife's behavior to be unacceptable.

Friends of my wife have to be friends of our marriage or they can go play with themselves in the dark and f off.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

There is a story a lot like yours.

The wife was cheating with her boss. They joked around like they were best friends.

The similarities between the two threads.

His wife ended up getting an std from her boss. She stopped having sex with her husband giving every excuse.

He divorced his wife and informed the OBS. OBS divorced the ex boss because her family owed the business.

He is doing great and the cheater not so much.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

...


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

...


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> She is going out once every other week for bingo and a drink with colleagues and he is complaining? It's not like she stays out after work every day... is this reprehensible behaviour?


actually, that is already way beyond average outing freq.
I have work experiences both in academia and industry. In academia, there can be a bit more outing, because people are a bit younger, but still probably once in 2-3 months. In industry, most socializing is during lunch. Only dinner socializing we had were in occasions when some important people visited us. It was not more often than once in half year.
In any place, married women rarely joined, because they need to pick up kids, already plan with her husband, ........ Unless the event is very important and related to work, or event is invitation to employee and family, etc. they do not join.
Outing every other week and drinking is way beyond.
If I were the husband, I would be furious and clearly define the line.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

As a closure from my side after going through all the feelings of messy divorce while reading OP's posts:

The right thing to do may not always be the best thing to do. The right thing may demand some qualities that the person may not possess. Then, the best thing might be the best choice among things in his reach.
I think that OP is very lack of critical logical thinking, totally led by his vulnerable emotion. Going through a divorce demands a very strong personality that is capable of making decisions solely based on sense. It also demands intelligence. Fighting for custody and money needs no mercy, but sense sense sense, endless sense.
Let's say OP got his divorce, and full custody for 3 children which I would assume since he has been taking care for the kids. What he can do next? The best he can do is to find a motherly woman who can take care for his vulnerable emotion and love him the way he is. It is hard for me to imagine any woman would love such beta man enough to take in 3 children. I myself can only be attracted to smart, strong alphaman, like the German guy I fancy.
Then the best thing for OP is to stay like this. At least he can get occasional cuddling from her.

This is my closure and I should not continue on this thread, should focus on my work rest of the day.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Maia.2022 said:


> actually, that is already way beyond average outing freq.
> I have work experiences both in academia and industry. In academia, there can be a bit more outing, because people are a bit younger, but still probably once in 2-3 months. In industry, most socializing is during lunch. Only dinner socializing we had were in occasions when some important people visited us. It was not more often than once in half year.
> In any place, married women rarely joined, because they need to pick up kids, already plan with her husband, ........ Unless the event is very important and related to work, or event is invitation to employee and family, etc. they do not join.
> Outing every other week and drinking is way beyond.
> If I were the husband, I would be furious and clearly define the line.


Maybe in Denmark. In the UK, we go out with colleagues after work for a drink, a lot... there is nothing strange about it and it's definitely not "way beyond". I would be happy for my wife to go out for a drink after work, as long as she doesn't do it every day!  I can look after my kids, I can cook and I can do chores... I don't really need my wife to be there all the time and she entitled to time off and to enjoy herself.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

I feel sorry for being very harsh on OP. I wrote too much and do not have time to go through all and make them empty.

I think more or less we are all poor existences, and more or less we are all delusional.
Probably in hard times, delusion is what can make us keep moving, and on the way we might find pleasant surprise.
It is about how OP is feeling in the situation, not about what the truth is, not about what is the right thing to do. Right thing or wrong thing is very subjective anyway.
It is all about how he feels about the situation, and what advice is comfortable for him to take. I should not make harsh judgment.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

There is a difference when you go out for drinks with colleagues after work and avoiding spending time with your SO. I see no problem going out in mixed company, we need friends. The problem is OP’s wife doesn’t want to spend time with him.

She has also made it clear that she, at the very least, admirers her boss.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

Maia.2022 said:


> I feel sorry for being very harsh on OP. I wrote too much and do not have time to go through all and make them empty.
> 
> I think more or less we are all poor existences, and more or less we are all delusional.
> Probably in hard times, delusion is what can make us keep moving, and on the way we might find pleasant surprise.
> ...



If you're right, I'll be sure to come back and thank you for your input.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Flyaway9768 said:


> If you're right, I'll be sure to come back and thank you for your input.


No need to thank me.
Just try to protect yourself. She is treating you bad! Why do you put up with this?
Please read blackclover's posts very carefully, and try to understand what he is saying, try to catch the points.
ABHale also made the points very clear.

If you are trying to be "better man better husband" as you think or as some people advised here, she will think you more and more so boring so annoying so much wants to get rid of you avoid you.
Do you have no self respect?!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ABHale said:


> There is a difference when you go out for drinks with colleagues after work and avoiding spending time with your SO. I see no problem going out in mixed company, we need friends. *The problem is OP’s wife doesn’t want to spend time with him.*


Are you surprised?



ABHale said:


> She has also made it clear that she, at the very least, admirers her boss.


I didn't read "at the very least" anywhere, or maybe I'm not very good at finding it...


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I didn't read "at the very least" anywhere, or maybe I'm not very good at finding it...


Probably it does not matter if she admires her boss or not.
If you look at their conversations, the woman shows not even a bit of sincerity to make any effort to make the relationship work. She has not a bit of concern what he is feeling. Her answers are super perfunctory.
I would be furious if I were treated like that.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Maia.2022 said:


> Probably it does not matter if she admires her boss or not.
> If you look at their conversations, the woman shows not even a bit of sincerity to make any effort to make the relationship work. She has not a bit of concern what he is feeling. Her answers are super perfunctory.
> I would be furious if I were treated like that.


I think what we are missing is how and how long he has been bringing this kind of thing up. I get the impression that he hasn't handled himself very well since the beginning. Instead of addressing it head on and in an adult manner he tends to sulk and pout about it. Getting in a bad mood rather than addressing the issue. Hopefully he can rectify that. Once he actually does that I think he will get a difference response from her.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

I have a Dr. appointment scheduled for today to seek some anxiety meds and get into therapy.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> I have a Dr. appointment scheduled for today to seek some anxiety meds and get into therapy.


I asked this previously, but didn't see an answer. How is the rest of your marriage? Do you take your wife on quality dates? Do you have a satisfying sex life?


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I asked this previously, but didn't see an answer. How is the rest of your marriage? Do you take your wife on quality dates? Do you have a satisfying sex life?


We don't get out as often as we should, so no, there's been a lack of Date nights/days. 
Sex, sex has been often and frequent and more adventurous.. since she started reading she's been more into having sex.. most of the time she comes (not every time).


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> We don't get out as often as we should, so no, there's been a lack of Date nights/days.
> Sex, sex has been often and frequent and more adventurous.. since she started reading she's been more into having sex.. most of the time she comes (not every time).


That is actually good pretty good news IMO. Her being sexually attracted to you is important. If that were not the case I would be much more concerned about your situation. 

Just some more suggestions. 

Work on yourself, including but not limited to getting the medical and psychological help you need. 
Get out there with your wife. Both during her working events and on your own. I suggest that you find a way to go on a date night at least as often as you attend get togethers with other people. That should at least be a goal that you give your full effort.
Work on being more of a leader in your marriage and your improve your confidence.
Sounds like she gets a thrill from the books and you seem to be the beneficiary of that. It would be nice to find a balance that allows her to continue with her reading hobby while not negatively impacting your quality time together. I think that can come from working on being a better leader in your marriage. It will also make you more like those strong male protagonists in her books, which could further improve your intimate life.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Are you surprised?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't read "at the very least" anywhere, or maybe I'm not very good at finding it...


She has talked about her boss in a positive way. She is also checking him out in front of OP.

She thinks he is a good guy or she could be ****ing his brains out.

At the very least she admires him.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ABHale said:


> She has talked about her boss in a positive way. She is also checking him out in front of OP.
> 
> She thinks he is a good guy or she could be ****ing his brains out.
> 
> At the very least she admires him.


I admire lots of female colleagues, but it doesn’t mean I want to f**** them… 😊 But if that’s your impression, fair enough.


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## loblawbobblog (9 mo ago)

Your wife's behavior is problematic and identical to my wife's behavior during the time period of her infidelity. Regularly going out drinking with opposite sex coworkers is not acceptable in a marriage. There's a very good chance it will lead to infidelity. You need to tell her you can no longer accept it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

loblawbobblog said:


> Your wife's behavior is problematic and identical to my wife's behavior during the time period of her infidelity. Regularly going out drinking with opposite sex coworkers is not acceptable in a marriage. There's a very good chance it will lead to infidelity. You need to tell her you can no longer accept it.


Is twice a month “going out regularly”? Is she only going out with opposite sex coworkers?  I have the feeling you skipped a few pages.


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## loblawbobblog (9 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Is twice a month “going out regularly”? Is she only going out with opposite sex coworkers?


Going out drinking with a mixed crowd who is mostly single (I'd bet money on) without your spouse is a non-starter. Twice a month means it's a regularly scheduled thing that her husband is excluded from. Nope.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I think as big of an issue is that OP does almost all of the housework and child care. What does this wife even do for the family? OP why have you signed up to be her servant, basically?

Sounds like the only thing she does while home is read books. Constantly. 

OP why are you okay with this life?


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## loblawbobblog (9 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> I think as big of an issue is that OP does almost all of the housework and child care. What does this wife even do for the family? OP why have you signed up to be her servant, basically?
> 
> Sounds like the only thing she does while home is read books. Constantly.
> 
> OP why are you okay with this life?


He's a classic beta provider. I should know, it takes one to know one. I'm working on not being that. OP needs to realize what he is in order to begin taking steps to change it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

loblawbobblog said:


> Going out drinking with a mixed crowd who is mostly single (I'd bet money on) without your spouse is a non-starter. Twice a month means it's a regularly scheduled thing that her husband is excluded from. Nope.


I’m glad I’m not your wife…


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> I think as big of an issue is that OP does almost all of the housework and child care. What does this wife even do for the family? OP why have you signed up to be her servant, basically?
> 
> Sounds like the only thing she does while home is read books. Constantly.
> 
> OP why are you okay with this life?


The OP has to fix himself first. This is why his wife doesn’t want to be there.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> The OP has to fix himself first. This is why his wife doesn’t want to be there.


His wife sounds life a selfish piece of work.

No good person with any sense of decency lets their spouse do all the housework and child care while they sit back on their ass and relax and READ.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

Saw the Dr.. was prescribed some meds for anxiety/depression.. 
Also talked to him about what was going on a little.. he suggested a Marriage Counselor, but also an individual for me.. 

To clarify with some on the outing.. of the group, 1 Married Couple (2 people), 1 Married woman (husband doesn't go), and POSSIBLY 2 single guys (1 for sure, the other I'm not sure if he goes), and my wife.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> His wife sounds life a selfish piece of work.
> 
> No good person with any sense of decency lets their spouse do all the housework and child care while they sit back on their ass and relax and READ.


I don’t think he does It all. And it’s their arrangement.


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## loblawbobblog (9 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I’m glad I’m not your wife…


Do you regularly go out drinking with a mixed crowd without your husband?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

loblawbobblog said:


> Do you regularly go out drinking with a mixed crowd without your husband?


I’m a man 👨 - it was a joke, sorry - but my wife used to go out occasionally with work colleagues, like 2-3 times a month and I was perfectly fine with it. I went out too. A marriage is not a prison. It’s funny like lots of people here seem to blame the wife.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> I think as big of an issue is that OP does almost all of the housework and child care. What does this wife even do for the family? OP why have you signed up to be her servant, basically?
> 
> Sounds like the only thing she does while home is read books. Constantly.
> 
> OP why are you okay with this life?


From what I read, his wife is great in bed. She reads a lot of erotic books and comes to him for adventerous sex very frequently.
Disgusting!
A man is paying price for the great sex!


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> His wife sounds life a selfish piece of work.
> 
> No good person with any sense of decency lets their spouse do all the housework and child care while they sit back on their ass and relax and READ.


Exactly, I think just unbelievable, and he thinks nothing is wrong with all this.
Just unbelievable, and since i pointed out, he says i am being negative........
Unbelievable, any human being can be dense at this level.


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## loblawbobblog (9 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I’m a man 👨 - it was a joke, sorry - but my wife used to go out occasionally with work colleagues, like 2-3 times a month and I was perfectly fine with it. I went out too. A marriage is not a prison. It’s funny like lots of people here seem to blame the wife.


I had a very bad experience with an identical situation as the OP describes, so I guess I'm a bit biased.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Flyaway9768 said:


> To clarify with some on the outing.. of the group, 1 Married Couple (2 people), 1 Married woman (husband doesn't go), and POSSIBLY 2 single guys (1 for sure, the other I'm not sure if he goes), and my wife.


So this is OK with you. Then what are you whinning about? Oh I see, your anxiety worrying about her indidelity which does not even exist.
I believe you read all 159 post, but seems like your view did not change even a bit,exactly same as at the start.

The problem is not your anxiety worrying about infidelity. She clearly is selfish, inappropriate, and who know what worse can there be?!

OMG. You are legitimate to be angry when your wife behaves like that!

You need to man up and clearly define lines, and show your anger when she does such ****s


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Flyaway,

One thing to be mindful of is that work affairs are very easy to hide and can go on for years, or in a few instances I've seen decades. The fact that your W knew her boss before you is not necessarily comforting. 

I don't know if you DNA'ed you kids or got yourself tested for STDs but it will give you more data points, if those tests are negative and positive respectively you have your answer.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

TAMAT said:


> Flyaway,
> 
> One thing to be mindful of is that work affairs are very easy to hide and can go on for years, or in a few instances I've seen decades. The fact that your W knew her boss before you is not necessarily comforting.
> 
> I don't know if you DNA'ed you kids or got yourself tested for STDs but it will give you more data points, if those tests are negative and positive respectively you have your answer.


He believes his wife is faithful, and it is his problem to be anxious about something that does not exist. He blames for his mental problems. Poor man.


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## damo7 (Jul 16, 2020)

I'm not religious or old fashioned. But my wife or I don't hang out on the regular with opposite sex 'friends' even as part of groups or even from work - not on a regular basis and not with the other present. Maybe sometimes is ok, but on the regular this is not a person I'd choose to marry.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I don’t think he does It all. And it’s their arrangement.


No. It's not their "arrangement". He's irritated by doing the majority ofeverything and he's irritated that literally all she does is read.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

damo7 said:


> I'm not religious or old fashioned. But my wife or I don't hang out on the regular with opposite sex 'friends' even as part of groups or even from work - not on a regular basis and not with the other present. Maybe sometimes is ok, but on the regular this is not a person I'd choose to marry.


Then he already married such a person. Instead of clearly defining lines for her, he is blaming himself for anxiety,...
He says he got medicine for this.
Just unbelievable, anyone can have this little respect for himself, totally defenseless, ..... poor man, i think he is totally hopeless.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> I admire lots of female colleagues, but it doesn’t mean I want to f**** them… 😊 But if that’s your impression, fair enough.


Now your putting words in my statement that are not there.

There isn’t anything wrong with admiration.

There is a problem when you spend every chance you get to be with that person and it isn’t your spouse.


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> Not sure if this belongs here or not, but here it goes:
> _Going to be long_ Wife and I have been married for 6 years now, we were together for quiet a few years before getting married. I've struggled with jealousy and insecurities. I blame it on past relationships. One in particular when I was younger, both young and in college, and we were still kind of together, but she was chasing after someone else, and I felt cheated but, till this day I still don't know if anything ever happened. Anyway, flash forward. Wife is an amazing person, way more social than I am and works with a lot of guys. Whom I think are way better looking and more outgoing than myself. I've always off and on felt jealous when she talked about her boss, in my mind she sounded excited talking about him/to him than she did with me. She was even texting him (about work) when we were on vacation before I proposed. Which, I think I've held onto that. This was talked about in our marriage classes too. She hangs out with a group off and on, they go out and play bingo and drink. A few months ago we all met, myself included, went bowling and drinking and her boss and a few others were with. I was already annoyed with her because instead of coming home to help me get the kids ready with our oldest to watch, she just went out and met with her friends. So off to a nice start. We ate, went bowling and during which, I was watching her and saw her "check out" her boss. That got me a lot more than it probably should. I told her about it after which she says she "didn't realize she did". I kind of forgave her, but not really. She's never done anything, she's always telling me she's not interested, and she would never do anything to jeopardize our relationship. She went out again two weeks ago, my jealousy again got in the way. We talked, she said the same thing she always says, she's not going to do anything. I feel like she's holding it against me now though, and it's come up more often lately that it's weighing on her. I feel like a total piece of **** that I can't just get over this and trust her and let her live her life. I feel like I'm turning into my father which, is and always has been protective of my mother (and she claims never let her have a social life). I don't want that in my marriage but, I just can't let go of these constant questioning and getting inside my own head with stupid ideas/thoughts. She likes to read of a lot of erotic novels, she's been reading more and more of them since the new year when I mentioned it would be nice for more sex next year. She reads of a lot "bad boy" books and some books about a Boss (like workplace boss..) and those make really uncomfortable..
> 
> TL;DR I'm struggling with my own insecurities and jealousy issues, wife has never done anything to make me not trust her but, I can't let go of thoughts/feelings that she could/would with the group she's hanging out with. I feel like it's causing unnecessary stress on our relationship.


Dude,
Nip that in the bud, stop it or she leaves.
No bingo, nor drinks. When she don't want to do something. Add with me. It's true.stop being a beta simp.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> No. It's not their "arrangement". He's irritated by doing the majority ofeverything and he's irritated that literally all she does is read.


It is their arrangement... read his reply: "_I mean she does help with the children, she does have more time for herself than myself,. I do a majority of the house work and cooking yes.. *it's how we've always been though*.. _"


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ABHale said:


> There is a problem when you spend every chance you get to be with that person and it isn’t your spouse.


Every chance?


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> _.. *it's how we've always been though*.. _"


That It has been like that does not mean it is something he is happy about. From the full context, it is more likely something he has to put up with.
The man never manned up, never stood up for his rights.
simp!


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Every chance?


You do not need to bite every word.
The full context, you can see the woman is avoiding him, instead, outing with group including boss.
she could choose a group for game night without boss, but instead, she choose a group with boss, and claimed she cannot just skip boss in the group.
Any one witha bit of sensibility cannot help but interpreting this as she likes to be with boss everywhere possible.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Maia.2022 said:


> That It has been like that does not mean it is something he is happy about. From the full context, it is more likely something he has to put up with.
> The man never manned up, never stood up for his rights.
> simp!


He is not a simp. He is a nice man who cares about his wife. Unfortunately, he is insecure and and anxious and jealous, which are all traits putting his wife off. After all these years, he hasn't managed to change and the wife has adjusted her life accordingly. She goes out with friends twice a month and reads books to isolate herself from the trap she is in.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Maia.2022 said:


> You do not need to bite every word.


Words are important. The poster is saying I'm putting words in his mouth and then he replies with the same concept, just using different words...I don't understand how you can say that the wife spends _every chance_ to be with her boss. She spends time with her boss, at work and twice a month at the bingo. How can you say she spends every chance to be with him?


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> He is not a simp. He is a nice man who cares about his wife. Unfortunately, he is insecure and and anxious and jealous, which are all traits putting his wife off. After all these years, he hasn't managed to change and the wife has adjusted her life accordingly. She goes out with friends twice a month and reads books to isolate herself from the trap she is in.


We all see he is nice man, nice enough even if his wife is unfaithful, he would forgive and live on with her. No doubt!!!
Hope you get married and get 3 children 2 still very young toddler, and your wife goes out twice a month and see what it feels like.
If you read carefully he is very upset about his wife outing!!! he was already pissed when she arrived late.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Words are important. The poster is saying I'm putting words in his mouth and then he replies with the same concept, just using different words...I don't understand how you can say that the wife spends every chance to be with her boss. She spends time with her boss, at work and twice a month at the bingo. How can you say she spends every chance to be with him?


words are importnat in the sense it is convey the meaning the information
so the meaning and information is more important because it is the final goal
if there is a type, and obvious, you can still understand that is typo for a word, what is imåortnat is the meaning the information the sentence is tyring to convey , not the type!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Maia.2022 said:


> We all see he is nice man, nice enough even if his wife is unfaithful, he would forgive and live on with her. No doubt!!!
> Hope you get married and get 3 children 2 still very young toddler, and your wife goes out twice a month and see what it feels like.
> If you read carefully he is very upset about his wife outing!!! he was already pissed when she arrived late.


I was married with 3 toddlers and my wife went out with colleagues and friends. And I did too. So what? I don't need my wife to be there. I can do things myself, without her. And I wasn't jealous or insecure.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I was married with 3 toddlers and my wife went out with colleagues and friends. And I did too. So what? I don't need my wife to be there. I can do things myself, without her. And I wasn't jealous or insecure.


Maybe
but the op is obviously different and feeling unhappy about it!
then what a normal average wife would do!!!!
hardly imagine anyone else would repeating it, and makign things worse, keep hurting his feelings make him more anxious
it doe snot matter she has the right or not
it is about she has zero care!
may be you are outlier
from what most people on this thread is saying, clearly the wife is inappropriate and selfish


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Maia.2022 said:


> words are importnat in the sense it is convey the meaning the information
> so the meaning and information is more important because it is the final goal
> if there is a type, and obvious, you can still understand that is typo for a word, what is imåortnat is the meaning the information the sentence is tyring to convey , not the type!


Sorry, I don't need a lecture in semantics...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Maia.2022 said:


> Maybe
> but the op is obviously different and feeling unhappy about it!
> then what a normal average wife would do!!!!
> hardly imagine anyone else would repeating it, and makign things worse, keep hurting his feelings make him more anxious
> ...


So, what you are saying is that she should be at home all the time trapped with a jealous and insecure man, and she is not allowed to go out...


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> So, what you are saying is that she should be at home all the time trapped with a jealous and insecure man, and she is not allowed to go out...


not all time, just as much as an average woman would do to an anxious husband! to help him to cope with it, and make things better!!!!!!
besides, you are outlier, for 99.999999% of people once in 2 weeks is too much and crazy.......


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Every chance?


Really?!?!

she is out with him and the other coworkers any chance she gets. She isn’t really spending any time with her own family.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> So, what you are saying is that she should be at home all the time trapped with a jealous and insecure man, and she is not allowed to go out...


Who is projecting his own self on to someone else.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Maia.2022 said:


> besides, you are outlier, for 99.999999% of people once in 2 weeks is too much and crazy.......


I'm glad to be an outlier, if 99.999999% of people are not even allowed to go out twice a month...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ABHale said:


> Really?!?!
> 
> she is out with him and the other coworkers any chance she gets. She isn’t really spending any time with her own family.


She is not spending any time with her family? Really?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ABHale said:


> Who is projecting his own self on to someone else.


You are not answering the questions. You are just replying with overarching exaggerated statements: she is always trying to spend as much time with her boss and she doesn't spend any time with her family. Do you really think this is what's happening?


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> You are not answering the questions. You are just replying with overarching exaggerated statements: she is always trying to spend as much time with her boss and she doesn't spend any time with her family. Do you really think this is what's happening?


Overly exaggerated or not is not something you decide or ABHale decide, but the OP decide.
OP started the thread because he feels unhapy or upset or anxious whatever, he feels not right!


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> She is not spending any time with her family? Really?


At least not enough time, the OP says.
Always reading reading reading reading at home. OPdoes most work, besides his full time work!
The only thing OP said postively about his her great skills in bed! which i think is disgusting!
because i can only imagine such lazy selfish cold hearten woman comes to me with all sex adventures. I can only be disgusted!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Maia.2022 said:


> At least not enough time, the OP says.


Well, this is better, a lot closer to reality than "she never spends any time with her family". This is not what the OP said. Let's not twist facts to make a point.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Well, this is better, a lot closer to reality than "she never spends any time with her family". This is not what the OP said. Let's not twist facts to make a point.


again, you are just biting words instead of trying to catch the information that he is trying to convey
It is not enough time, close to no time, because she is either outing or reading at home, or sex adventures based on what she read. Just disgusting woman! selfish, cold, lazy, gas light


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Maia.2022 said:


> again, you are just biting words instead of trying to catch the information that he is trying to convey
> It is not enough time, close to no time, because she is either outing or reading at home, or sex adventures based on what she read. Just disgusting woman! selfish, cold, lazy, gas light


I don't really know what to respond to this, so I won't. We see the matter in completely different ways and there is no point in keeping talking about it. We are getting nowhere.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> It is their arrangement... read his reply: "_I mean she does help with the children, she does have more time for herself than myself,. I do a majority of the house work and cooking yes.. *it's how we've always been though*.. _"


Just because it's how it's always been doesn't mean it's an arrangement. 

It's means she's been selfish and taking advantage, throughout their relationship. 

She reads constantly and doesn't engage with her husband at all.

It's not insecurity to be fed up with the outings every other week including a boss she totally checked out, right in front of her husband. 

Some very strong males have responded saying that **** would not not fly with them, OP isn't inappropriately insecure about it.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Just because it's how it's always been doesn't mean it's an arrangement.
> 
> It's means she's been selfish and taking advantage, throughout their relationship.
> 
> ...


So I think someone is speaking some sense here.
Do you read that the guy thinks he has mental problems and is taking medicine.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

There is a lot of reading into the situation that I don't recall being explicitly said.

*@Flyaway9768 comments about going out *
_She hangs out with a group off and on
She goes out biweekly or so with this group from work
After work and until 8-9pm
It's about every other week they go out. I will ask about going and see how she reacts.
I did ask about going and she didn't hesitate and said yes she would like that.
I told her I want to hear about her day, I want to hear about her time out l, even if I have a problem with it.. she told did opened up about more.. she said it was a bit of a relief to share.
She goes out with friends maybe once every 2 weeks or so, depends on how everyone else's schedule works_


I don't know that going out every 2 weeks or so adds up to always going out. I personally wouldn't be comfortable with my wife going out socially on any regular frequency with people of the opposite sex solo. That would be an easy fix though, I would go with. The wife appears to be on board with that. Since they have kids that may not always be possible, but since the oldest daughter is 15 she can babysit. Every two weeks isn't much of an imposition on her. I also think it would be healthy for OP to find his own thing to do at a similar frequency and invite his wife if possible.

*OP's comments about going out with her*
_It came up once that I "should come with" and that's really where it ended.
She doesn't want to hang out with me and her friends because I'm a "wet blanket" and do pout and try not to have a good time.. That's not her fault. She sits there worrying if I'm having fun knowing _

She doesn't have a problem with him coming with, so long as he isn't sitting around sulking. I think if he makes a genuine effort to and have some fun it will go s long way to strengthening their marriage.

*OP's comments about infidelity*
_I have dug through her phone (I know I shouldn't) but, never found anything that would lead me to believe she's doing anything.
I've found zero evidence to prove that anything has or will happen._

Considering the high level of insecurity and jealousy expressed by the OP I suspect his assessment that she isn't cheating is probably right. However, nothing wrong with keeping his eyes open. Going to the get togethers would be a good opportunity to observe.

*OP's comments about quality time*
_No, we need to do better with quality time..the issue is, she is always reading her books. She gets up in the morning, reads. After dinner, reads. Before bed, reads. We tried watching a movie together the other night and we were cuddling on the couch. She says she's going to bed, which I walk in to her reading again.. so quality time with her hard at home. We did have a date night on Friday which was nice.
I did ask her if her reading is a way to avoid talking and she did admit that it might be..
when we went on our date I told her how I've been feeling, like I'm losing her and I don't want to and she made a short conversation and then back to reading..
We talked about how we don't do anything like hang out or watch movies or really talk anymore. She acknowledged and agreed with that. She also agreed to spend more time together
She asked about having a board game night with friends._

This is as concerning as anything OP has brought up in my mind, more than the going out every few weeks. A wife that is trying to escape conversations and time with hubby is very bad situation. Quality time is important. And here he even says that a topic of conversation on a date night was about his insecurities and fears. There isn't necessarily anything wrong with that kind of conversation, but it was not good timing. A rare date night isn't the time to talk about issues. It should be a time for fun and romance. Reminding them why they are together. The good news is the OP has reported that their sex life is quite good. I feel sex life is a good barometer in a marriage. She still has a sexual attraction to him, which in my mind means there is hope. 


I do feel it sounds like she is placing more value on her social life than her marriage which is a major issue in mind. At the same time I can appreciate that she wants and needs that social interaction. @Flyaway9768 even wants her to have that, he said this: "_I feel like I'm turning into my father which, is and always has been protective of my mother (and she claims never let her have a social life). I don't want that in my marriage" _A big problem is this social group has existed longer than the marriage, and even though it was talked about in premarital counseling OP never completely addressed it. It just kind of got swept to the side. At this point, years later, it would be rather hard for him to say you have to stop this now or else. This is why I think at this point in time it would be better for him to take the initiative to make some changes in himself and become a part of that social circle. He doesn't sound like the type of person that just goes out and finds new friends. I can sympathize. I do a lot of sports so I make friends in those circles, but we don't really hang out expect at games. My wife is the friend maker and they just become our social friends, which I'm good with.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

。。。


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> She is not spending any time with her family? Really?


That is what OP has posted. Unless your calling him a liar.

He is the one taking care of the house and kids mostly.

What would you call it?


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> That is what OP has posted. Unless your calling him a liar.
> 
> He is the one taking care of the house and kids mostly.
> 
> What would you call it?


It just amazes me how people can make big issues big stories from accessories, not from the core, from the points.
I think you and blackclover can catch the points and speak on right on the points.
Sadly, OP is so confused, and in addition, all those accessary advice in in his favor, and he selectively listen to what he likes to hear.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ABHale said:


> That is what OP has posted. Unless your calling him a liar.
> 
> *He is the one taking care of the house and kids mostly.*
> 
> What would you call it?


so, from that you assume that she doesn’t spend any time with the family?


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

some people here might not even dated but their spouses. 

I hate to keep talking about myself - but, during my young years i was very active with women. 

I remember it clearly, i was 21 (youngest) and my group of friends from work were 7 (1 single man, 1 married and myself) the remaining 4 were women either married or in committed relationship. all of us always brought the sex topic during bar hang outs and while drinking. and from a man's view - we always were thinking how we can sleep with the females in our circle and we did during the years (not proud). 3 women were married with kids in a happy relationship. 

1 lady was 15 years older than me and her husband even work in the same place as us. after few drinks between the 7 us I remember her saying something like " you will not be able to handle me in bed, would you like to try" 

i couldn't look into her husband's eyes for years. 

my point, Man + Woman after work hang out means sex. Man + woman + drinks + night outs = definitely/eventually sex

men always thinks about their manhood - and when a married woman (with good intention) drinking and talk about some minor problems with her friends, consider this the door that her male friend will enter from. male friend will make that problem look bigger to either unintentionally support his female friend or to internationally try to sleep with her
" are you kidding me, your husband doesn't take you on date nights? when i was dating my ex and I were always doing something together, camping, reading, hiking, date nights"
" your husband always forget to take out the trash? what a lazy, I always help in the hours, clean, cook and do laundry - i want my wife or girl friend always to stay happy because she work hard"
" my ex and I used to be physical 2 times a day even with kids" 
"why your husband ignoring your needs, this is not cool. you might need marriage counseling" 
with drinks, minor concerns or discomforts with the spouses appears as big problem, the male friend becomes the perfect partner
"oh he listens to me"
"he likes what I dress"
"he such a nice guy"
"he always smiles"
"he is funny" 
"he is warm heated and good guy"

then her pants are down in his apartments 

I dont care what you say or how you sugar coat things, or how progressive you think you are. unless the Man is diskless he will always think about banging his female friend. and even if he is diskless he would still try to keep his female friend around him. 

the story that most painful to me and until this day after 20+ years - about one of the our circle married female friend. we met her husband who is successful, good looking and most caring guy. they have 3 kids together - their youngest 4 suffered from cancer. we met her husband few times and he made sure his wife always supported. always involved even with us the circle of friends, always take care of his 2 kids. bought new car for his wife despite working full time. lived in a nice big house. always taking them to vacations. 
she later slept with one of my friends - her husband found out from text messages. i stopped hanging out with group after this incident


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Just because it's how it's always been doesn't mean it's an arrangement.
> 
> It's means she's been selfish and taking advantage, throughout their relationship.
> 
> ...


It's an unspoken arrangement, or agreement. He never protested and has done nothing to change things, because he is a weak man who bends backwards to please his wife. She's lost respect for him and has taken advantage of the situation. I can see a lot of myself in the OP in my married times. It's not good. This marriage's finished.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

@In Absentia

You are at peace with your relationship dynamic - it is MATURE and works out for you.

*The relationship in question have "drama" and "problems."*

He _hinted_ a guy who met his (now) wife back in the college days. In his words:

_"I blame it on past relationships. One in particular when I was younger, both young and in college, and we were still kind of together, but she was chasing after someone else, and I felt cheated but, till this day I still don't know if anything ever happened."_

This history have fueled his insecurity. When I asked him some questions in relation, His response was simply this: _"know that was a previous relationship.. which I need to let go of."_

WE can argue that this woman was young and naive back then but she did show lack of character at the time. You do not date another man when you have a boyfriend, right?

He then _hinted_ that his (now) wife is into her boss *before* he proposed to her. In his words:

_"Anyway, flash forward. Wife is an amazing person, way more social than I am and works with a lot of guys. Whom I think are way better looking and more outgoing than myself. I've always off and on felt jealous when she talked about her boss, in my mind she sounded excited talking about him/to him than she did with me. She was even texting him (about work) when we were on vacation before I proposed. Which, I think I've held onto that. This was talked about in our marriage classes too."_

He got the impression that she liked her boss more than him.

I have advised him to address his insecurities. I have given him some tips for how to improve himself and treat his wife. I have also told him to encourage his wife to talk to him at home - he will have better perspective of her situation in this manner.

More in following posts:









My insecurities and jealousy


I did this tonight. She was home late which already had me anxious, I made supper and fed the kids. She got home and I expressed my concerns and asked if she cared about any of them. I asked about the reading and what it is about them that she constantly has to be reading.. she claimed the...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com













My insecurities and jealousy


I agree with @LeGenDary_Man Outside friends must be friends of the marriage. That said, it might be healthier for @Flyaway9768 to go to the game night & have fun with the wife's colleagues. If he can show up & not sulk it sounds to me like the wife wants him there but she doesn't want the...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





*Now, let us concentrate on other details:

1.* The husband handles household chores in large part. In his words:

_"She goes out with friends maybe once every 2 weeks or so, depends on how everyone else's schedule works.. Does she do housework like a good "housewife" should? *No, she's never been that way though, before we had kids (just the oldest I had) I did all the chores..* It's just worked for us.. Do I get frustrated with it, yea but I've come to terms with that.."_

*2.* The wife likes to go out and have fun with her a group of friends including her boss instead of helping him at home. In his words:

_"She hangs out with a group off and on, they go out and play bingo and drink. A few months ago we all met, myself included, went bowling and drinking and her boss and a few others were with. I was already annoyed with her because instead of coming home to help me get the kids ready with our oldest to watch, she just went out and met with her friends."_

*3.* The wife spends much time reading erotic stories at home as well. In his words:

_"She likes to read of a lot of erotic novels, she's been reading more and more of them since the new year when I mentioned it would be nice for more sex next year. She reads of a lot "bad boy" books and some books about a Boss (like workplace boss..) and those make really uncomfortable.." _



In Absentia said:


> It's an unspoken arrangement, or agreement. He never protested and has done nothing to change things, because he is a weak man who bends backwards to please his wife. She's lost respect for him and has taken advantage of the situation. I can see a lot of myself in the OP in my married times. It's not good. This marriage's finished.


He protested once, to no avail. See above.

*This is the situation:

1.* The husband is of the view that his (now) wife have LIKED other men more than him (a guy in the college; her boss). *He is overburdened, and bothered by the fact that his wife LIKES her boss more than him while she have it all* - *socialization with her friends including her boss, and a husband of convenience at home.*

He have probably felt like he was the PLAN B to her all along.

*2.* The husband have now reached the point of starting medication and therapy:









My insecurities and jealousy


See if your wife would be interested in reading “Not Just Friends”. I guess actually catch your wife in the act is the only way to open your eyes.




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





-----

You are CORRECT in pointing out that _*"he is a weak man."*_

I am also of the view that he chose to marry a woman who have HURT him *before* "marriage." He never had a closure with her about the MEN he complains about. She have taken advantage of his weakness and sounds SPOILED.

I have advised him to IMPROVE his relationship with his wife.

I have also advised him to STOP putting his wife on the pedestal.

While he is supposed to go out with his wife more often, he should also try to involve her in household chores. She should share this burden with him.

She also needs to show to him that he is *not* PLAN B - that her love for him is genuine. She needs to stop hanging out with her boss [after office hours] for a change because this bugs her husband.

The husband can work on himself, change himself for the better, and see how she responds to him.

But he should keep his eyes open. WE do not know much about the wife and her boss. He does not know much either.

This is a situation in which he will have to improve himself and also play DETECTIVE for a while.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> @In Absentia
> 
> You are at peace with your relationship dynamic - it is MATURE and works out for you.
> 
> ...


Nooo.... that was a completely different relationship between me and a girl...she's the mother of the 15yr old... 
Also, She's not known her boss since before we met.. I don't recall when they started working together, but it wasn't before we met. They were talking via text (about work) while we were on vacation where I proposed.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> so, from that you assume that she doesn’t spend any time with the family?


Your being an argumentative for some reason. He actually said she wasn’t spending time with the family.

It is in his post if you actually read it.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Flyaway9768 said:


> Nooo.... that was a completely different relationship between me and a girl...she's the mother of the 15yr old...


My bad.

Your opening post is jumbled up - it can confuse readers. You should clearly mention that this was another woman/girl.



Flyaway9768 said:


> Also, She's not known her boss since before we met.. I don't recall when they started working together, but it wasn't before we met. They were talking via text (about work) while we were on vacation where I proposed.


You might have known your wife *before* she met her boss _*but*_ this is NOT what I stated or implied. I stated that your wife was into her boss *before* you proposed her. How could she be texting her boss on the day you proposed her while the two of you were on a vacation IF she was not working for him back in the days? Right?


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

I am in a very social profession. Drinks after work in mixed groups is the norm. If you don't attend those frequently you miss out on the good assignments. 

Yes, there are some people with no morals & poor boundaries fall into bed after a few drinks but many more people manage to control themselves. 

As the world is opening up, I'm back to doing more evening things for work in mixed groups. I'm probably out of the house 1-2 days per week & alcohol is involved. As my schedule gets refilled that could go back to 4-5 days per week out. DH knows he's welcome at almost all of that but he has his own stuff 2 days per week. Some of which I'm only partly welcome at because I am not a member of the organization & that's OK.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> Nooo.... that was a completely different relationship between me and a girl...she's the mother of the 15yr old...
> Also, She's not known her boss since before we met.. I don't recall when they started working together, but it wasn't before we met. They were talking via text (about work) while we were on vacation where I proposed.


what was she talking to him about - work related?


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

blackclover3 said:


> what was she talking to him about - work related?


From what I can recall it was.. but I know I took more as a way that they can talk..they were texting while we were supposed to be together.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> From what I can recall it was.. but I know I took more as a way that they can talk..they were texting while we were supposed to be together.


that was unprofessional from him but it happens. however, are you sure it is work related? like sure as you read the messages or did your wife tell it was work related?
I will take a guess - your wife told you it is work related and you didnt see the messages


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

You want to know about the wife?
Sure. She's a beautiful woman, very smart, she is kind and generous (may not seem that way).
we lived together while she went to school and after she was done we married. She's a great mother to our kids, the breadwinner of the family.


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

blackclover3 said:


> that was unprofessional from him but it happens. however, are you sure it is work related? like sure as you read the messages or did your wife tell it was work related?
> I will take a guess - your wife told you it is work related and you didnt see the messages


No I read the messages. I don't recall specifically what it was about but, I do recall it was work stuff.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Do you not work?

Who is she "kind and generous" to?


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## Flyaway9768 (7 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Do you not work?
> 
> Who is she "kind and generous" to?


Yes I work... 
I know from what picture I painted she sounds awful...she is to her clients(old people) and her family (me and the kids included)


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## loblawbobblog (9 mo ago)

She was assaulted in her youth, big red flag. That's unfair, but it's true. Sounds like she makes more money than you? That's a red flag on your part, women may try to convince themselves they're cool with being the main breadwinner but only in rare cases are they actually ok with that scenario. From what I've seen, they quickly resent their boyfriend/husband, find him unattractive and start looking for attention elsewhere.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Flyaway9768 said:


> You want to know about the wife?
> Sure. She's a beautiful woman, very smart, she is kind and generous (may not seem that way).
> She's two years younger than me, grew up in a small town on a dairy farm with her Mother and Father and younger sister. She was a bit sheltered, she was assaulted when she was younger (after therapy she was able to tell her parents and me about it more _she told me previously_).
> She was in Nursing School when we met at Applebee's on a Monday night in the fall. An old friend of ours set us up. She recalls telling her cousin who was with "I am going to marry him".. She lived with her cousin in town while she went to school. We dated, my daughter who was 2 at the time became attached to her, as did I. We had some bumps, broke up 2 times over stupid **** (she got too drunk 1 time and I couldn't handle it _immature move on my end_, I thought I liked someone else but, nothing ever came of that, and I realized that my Wife was a better choice) and got back together and have been since. We moved out of my parents house (with a 2 years at 18-19 was kind of hard to live anywhere else). We moved into an apartment where she continued schooling and working. She was working at the Nursing home, which would eventually be purchased by someone else and they moved sites (same town). She's still there. Anyway, she graduated and then I set out to marry her (This after 7 years of being together but, I told her nothing until she graduated because I didn't want her to get distracted by wedding stuff). We get married in 2016.
> ...


thanks for that we have a much clearer picture now.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

Flyaway9768 said:


> You want to know about the wife?
> Sure. She's a beautiful woman, very smart, she is kind and generous (may not seem that way).
> She's two years younger than me, grew up in a small town on a dairy farm with her Mother and Father and younger sister. She was a bit sheltered, she was assaulted when she was younger (after therapy she was able to tell her parents and me about it more _she told me previously_).
> She was in Nursing School when we met at Applebee's on a Monday night in the fall. An old friend of ours set us up. She recalls telling her cousin who was with "I am going to marry him".. She lived with her cousin in town while she went to school. We dated, my daughter who was 2 at the time became attached to her, as did I. We had some bumps, broke up 2 times over stupid **** (she got too drunk 1 time and I couldn't handle it _immature move on my end_, I thought I liked someone else but, nothing ever came of that, and I realized that my Wife was a better choice) and got back together and have been since. We moved out of my parents house (with a 2 years at 18-19 was kind of hard to live anywhere else). We moved into an apartment where she continued schooling and working. She was working at the Nursing home, which would eventually be purchased by someone else and they moved sites (same town). She's still there. Anyway, she graduated and then I set out to marry her (This after 7 years of being together but, I told her nothing until she graduated because I didn't want her to get distracted by wedding stuff). We get married in 2016.
> ...



thank you - it appears she missed a lot during her time growing up -
honestly, I would monitor her and keep an eye -

she might be liking and proud where is at right now from family and financial stand point. she feel empowered and happier than early life.
which also dangerous when a guy like her boss come along

you just need to be careful - and be the man everyone is telling you to be here. strong and know how to draw the lines. dont be weak.

keep a close eye on her - she might not be the problem but the people she hangs out with.

you need to start build yourself, career and financially.

nothing you need to be worried about - keep your guards up

being jealous, paranoid, and fearful about your wife means you love her and what you built together. this is great and every man should

if she sense you are weak or needy then you lost or will lose her forever

dont even mention to her your weakness currently about seeing a therapist. she will hold that against you and justify her action if there were any.

work out, dress nice, look nice and be nice

if it is meant to be with her until the day you die then no force on earth can separate you. if it is not meant to be together then there is someone else in a distant future waiting for you

we all get anxiety and paranoid. and we do we lose self-esteem and feels like the entire life shuts its door in front of us and we are doomed to fail. this is your brain playing tricks on you.

1- stand up for your self and your family. how? be strong and not weak - better yourself - see above
2- keep a close eyes. monitor messages, acts and habits. like new lingers etc..
3- there is nothing wrong about spying on her. your intention is to protect her and protect your family.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Flyaway9768 said:


> You want to know about the wife?
> Sure. She's a beautiful woman, very smart, she is kind and generous (may not seem that way).
> She's two years younger than me, grew up in a small town on a dairy farm with her Mother and Father and younger sister. She was a bit sheltered, she was assaulted when she was younger (after therapy she was able to tell her parents and me about it more _she told me previously_).
> She was in Nursing School when we met at Applebee's on a Monday night in the fall. An old friend of ours set us up. She recalls telling her cousin who was with "I am going to marry him".. She lived with her cousin in town while she went to school. We dated, my daughter who was 2 at the time became attached to her, as did I. We had some bumps, broke up 2 times over stupid **** (she got too drunk 1 time and I couldn't handle it _immature move on my end_, I thought I liked someone else but, nothing ever came of that, and I realized that my Wife was a better choice) and got back together and have been since. We moved out of my parents house (with a 2 years at 18-19 was kind of hard to live anywhere else). We moved into an apartment where she continued schooling and working. She was working at the Nursing home, which would eventually be purchased by someone else and they moved sites (same town). She's still there. Anyway, she graduated and then I set out to marry her (This after 7 years of being together but, I told her nothing until she graduated because I didn't want her to get distracted by wedding stuff). We get married in 2016.
> ...


Thanks for this update.

Please understand that you can be confusing and contradictory in your disclosures. You need to CORRECT this problem on your end. You need to work on your communication skills. You should be *truthful* in your disclosures.

You (and your wife) will be judged in view of the information you choose to provide - logical. People cannot address your concerns if you choose to withhold information and/or contradict yourself. I suspected that you were withholding information - it turns out that you were.

You seem to admit that your wife is doing whatever she can to support you (and your family unit)... If this is the case then it is FAIR on your part to handle your household chores.

My suggestions are the 'same' for your situation: Here, Here and Here. I have re-posted these links for your benefit - to make sure that you do not loose track of the pointers which can help your situation. FOR NOW.

But given your frame of mind, you should check following thread:









Be A Better Man, Be A Better Partner


"I'm a Nice Guy, the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Why doesn't she want me?" All of the following links address an array of questions that pertain to men changing their behavior with a goal of improving how they are perceived by their partners and themselves. If you are in a sex starved...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





Treasure-trove of information in this thread - very helpful.



Flyaway9768 said:


> Yes I work...


Are you satisfied with your line of work, or you want to get a better job?



Flyaway9768 said:


> I know from what picture I painted she sounds awful...she is to her clients(old people) and her family (me and the kids included)


You certainly did.

Anyways, WE can work with latest information on hand.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

I think may be OP disclosed too much information?
City, profession, ages of whole family, number of children, ......
Some people near by probably can identify your family, and you also disclosed very private information.

I also do not think here is where you can really find help, at most release some stress. Then you do not need to disclose full information, your wife might mind.

Only professional counselers who can see and talk with both of you probably can help.
Or friends and family who are close to you enough.

On this forum, you can learn how people think, their logic, etc, but when they deduct from A to B, you can learn the logic only. Besides A, there are AA, aa, ab, ac, ......., So A to B does not really apply to you. But you can still learn the essense.


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## Maia.2022 (7 mo ago)

From my experience with posting on forum, I think only OP knows full story with full details, and it is impossible to explain everything in one post.
So OP still needs to think by himself after learning all logic and all ways of thinking from responses


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