# Moving stuff out



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Just a quick question: when a trial separation is discussed and decided upon, how long does a person have to move themselves out of the home, provided that the home doesn't belong to him/her? Do they move everything out, or just essentials at this time?


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Ursula said:


> Just a quick question: when a trial separation is discussed and decided upon, how long does a person have to move themselves out of the home, provided that the home doesn't belong to him/her? Do they move everything out, or just essentials at this time?




Depends on the law in your state. 

My STBX and I were legally separated but occupied our marital home for over a year (separate bedrooms). I finally got fed up and took what I needed for my own apartment. Our home sold about 8 months later and we then divided the remaining household items. The final decree should be in the mail soon. 

We reside in Virginia. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Pretty sure there is no set time frame for this, its up to the two of you to come up with a deadline. I would think 2-4 weeks would be sufficient. If you dont do this, then things could drag on interminably.


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

What's the housing market like in your area? it took months for my son to find an affordable, commute-friendly place to live. Unfortunately someone can't just snap their fingers and find a place.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Okay, thanks guys. I'm in Canada, and will have to look up those laws. I plan on having small suitcase packed and at my parent's place, but I have a feeling that they think he'll leave by the end of the weekend, and I'm not so sure. It's my house (built by me years before we were dating, his name isn't on the mortgage or the deed), so he'll be the one to move out. I guess that would have to be discussed with our lawyers present. @Chris Taylor, I think he would probably move in with his Mom, as that's where he was living before moving in with me, and he doesn't have any close friends in the city to move in with.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I don't think there's any set time frame for this. I had always though a separation wasn't the same as a GTFO, so you would be allowed to keep things in the martial home.


----------



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

You're leaving until he moves out? Did I read that correctly? If so I think that's a mistake, what if he doesn't leave? If he has no ownership in the home then he needs to leave, I wouldn't leave him alone there for a minute, he could lose it and trash the place.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Yes, you read that right, Cooper, and the reason that I'm doing this is because I've talked to a few people about this (a friend who's been through the process, and a therapist), and no one thinks that he will leave the house. There are quite a few serious mental illnesses in his family, which scare me, and while I'm hoping for the best possible outcome, I'm preparing for him flying off the handle, which I don't want to be around for. True that he could completely destroy my house, but I plan on taking photos of the entire home beforehand, and if he does destroy it, that will come up in court I suppose. I don't really want to leave him there, but given the fact that I would probably be too scared to stay there alone with him, I will be leaving and taking my dogs with me. I'm just curious about how long I should wait for him to move out.



Cooper said:


> You're leaving until he moves out? Did I read that correctly? If so I think that's a mistake, what if he doesn't leave? If he has no ownership in the home then he needs to leave, I wouldn't leave him alone there for a minute, he could lose it and trash the place.


----------



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Ursula said:


> Yes, you read that right, Cooper, and the reason that I'm doing this is because I've talked to a few people about this (a friend who's been through the process, and a therapist), and no one thinks that he will leave the house. There are quite a few serious mental illnesses in his family, which scare me, and while I'm hoping for the best possible outcome, I'm preparing for him flying off the handle, which I don't want to be around for. True that he could completely destroy my house, but I plan on taking photos of the entire home beforehand, and if he does destroy it, that will come up in court I suppose. I don't really want to leave him there, but given the fact that I would probably be too scared to stay there alone with him, I will be leaving and taking my dogs with me. I'm just curious about how long I should wait for him to move out.


I understand being frightened of what's going to happen, and not wanting to be around him to deal with a possible blow up.

Let me ask you this. The guy has issues enough that he scares you, is this truly a "trial separation" or is it a step toward divorce? I ask because if you are baby stepping toward divorce maybe you would be better served having a judgement rendered against him forcing him to leave and then having the police come and escort him off the property. I agree that's an extreme measure but once you are out of the house it could take several months or longer to evict him from his home. And yes I say "his" home, him not being on the deed may make a difference in the end but right now it is his marital residence as much as yours, if you chose to leave what would be his motivation to leave so you could return? 

Anyway….to answer your question unless you have an official court order stipulating a date he needs to leave by I believe he can stay until you legally force him out. In the state I live in during a separation the spouse that has to leave the marital home is allowed to take whatever basic belongings are necessary to live elsewhere, and also allowed to use marital monies to purchase what is needed, apartment, bed, food,..etc.

Of coarse maybe everything is different in Canada, best to check the laws in your area.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I think you should consult with an attorney. How the courts view things can be different than how the law reads in black and white. How the police deal with things could be surprising, too.

Once you abandon the home, you may have no real rights to get him out or to get restitution if he destroys it. What if he burns it to the ground? Will your insurance cover it? What if he is now considered a tenant rather than a spouse or a squatter? Idk the answers, but suspect that you will be on the losing end of those kinds of situations.

If I were you, I'd be seeing how I could legally have him out of the house asap. I'd try to be firm but nice, but firm about it. Give him the grey rock treatment. Blame yourself not him. Be calm even when he gets upset or personal. If he does go off the rails, know ahead of time what your rights are and how to get the right kinds of authorities involved.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I would say to tell him he has two weeks to get his stuff in order, then he needs to be out. See how it goes from there. He knows it is YOUR house, so there is a chance that he gets it, and will just go. I would suggest that YOU not leave your house, get a legal order to have him removed if he refuses to go.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

With no one there to monitor him, he can basically do whatever he wants about moving out. Or maybe even not moving out if he decides he doesn't want to. 

That's really a lot of control you're giving him over your house and your possessions.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Hey guys,

Thanks for all of the thoughts! I had actually asked about all of this on the General board (I think) a couple weeks ago, and got no replies, so I just used my own judgement in terms of my feeling safe. I may be off base and making a mistake though, I don't know.
@Cooper, for me, this is a trial separation probably leading to divorce, and this is because we just have a few too many issues that need to get resolved, and we don't really know each other. As for him having issues, he does, but is by far the most stable in his family from what I know of him. And yes, it might be better to just rip the bandaid off and file for divorce, but I figured that taking it a little more slowly would ease him into it, and maybe not be such a hard hit. I'm hoping that it doesn't take several months for him to move out! I have enough clothes packed at my parent's for a week. And yes, it's his home too. Even if my name is the only one on the deed and mortgage, that's still where he comes home to every evening, and hangs his hat. At this point, I'm stuck between that and my folks though, as they think he should be moving out that same weekend, and they're adamant that it's NOT his home. Trying to tell them otherwise, and that I have to go by a lawyer's advice, doesn't seem to be working! In answer to your question, he probably wouldn't have a lot of motivation to leave, except for the fact that he knows deep down (and it states in our prenup) that the house belongs to me in the event of us parting ways. 
@Thor, I've consulted a lawyer, and he hasn't gotten back to me regarding my questions yet, and he goes on holidays on Wednesday. Being that the home is in the prenup, I would think that I would have a right to it; that's 1 reason why we had a prenup done up… We were both older, and coming into the marriage with quite a bit each. I have home owner's insurance, so if he burns it to the ground, I would think that insurance would cover it. And I also think that I would then have the rights to sue him. Grey rock treatment sounds like a good plan, and I've been trying to find out information on how to do this, but have been coming up with nothing, so I'm just going with my gut. 
@3Xnocharm, 2 weeks sounds reasonable, and yes, he does know that it's technically my home, as it stated that in our prenup, and both of us, and our 2 lawyers signed it. 
@Openminded, I am giving him a lot of control, but am trusting him to do what he knows is right. As to my possessions, I've moved a few treasured items to my parent's, and have a couple more to get over there, as well as the items that I need to run my 2 small businesses, but I will do that on Friday, as I have half the day off from work in order to do this. Again, I don't know if I'm handling this the right way, but haven't had much luck in getting answers from lawyers, and there's only so long that a person can wait.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Keeping my fingers crossed that everything goes well for you with this.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Ursula, it sounds to me like you're approaching this in a measured and thoughtful way. 

Keep things on an even emotional level when you interact with him, and provide him no indication there is any hope of getting back together. Just be businesslike and polite, yet firm. Don't heap blame on him for anything. Normally I'd say be honest in your interactions but since he may be volatile or his family may be, I think it better to avoid hostilities. Make bland statements about why the marriage isn't working. It turns out you just aren't compatible in a way which would make you both happy in the long run.

Just be alert to when things turn the corner in a bad way. Trying to be calm with him is fine, but be ready to do whatever is necessary. You may need to call the police suddenly. If he threatens suicide, for instance, it is time to call the police. If you see him become very upset, you may need to immediately leave. If your gut is telling you something is wrong, pay attention. Definitely follow your attorney's advice for dealing with things.

Hopefully he goes relatively calmly into the night.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Thor said:


> Ursula, it sounds to me like you're approaching this in a measured and thoughtful way.
> 
> Keep things on an even emotional level when you interact with him, and provide him no indication there is any hope of getting back together. Just be businesslike and polite, yet firm. Don't heap blame on him for anything. Normally I'd say be honest in your interactions but since he may be volatile or his family may be, I think it better to avoid hostilities. Make bland statements about why the marriage isn't working. It turns out you just aren't compatible in a way which would make you both happy in the long run.
> 
> ...


 @Openminded and @Thor, thanks!

I'll definitely do my best to keep things on an even emotional level in my interactions with him, and won't heap blame on him. We do share the blame pretty equally in this anyways. I do think that his family will be extremely upset with me, and I expect angry emails or Facebook posts, especially from his sister, who is very mentally unbalanced. I'll be blocking her and his Mom from posting on my Facebook wall, but will keep a log of any interactions that I happen to receive. I thank the good Lord that neither of them have vehicles or access to transportation that would be easy for them. 

And yes, suicide is something that still worries me, but not as much anymore. I now understand completely that if that's the route he decides on, that's his decision, and has nothing to do with what I would choose for him. However, if he lets me know about any suicidal intentions, you better believe that 9-11 is what I'll be calling right away.

Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts; they're greatly appreciated!


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

So Friday was D-day for H and I; we had our couple's counsellor appointment, and I had asked the therapist ahead of time to be a mediator for us for a trial separation. We talked for a bit, H talked a lot about his work, then made our way around to where we stand and what we want out of the relationship. When trial separation came up, H said that he was shell shocked, and wished that I had talked about this more beforehand. The thing is that I had brought it up more than once in the past year, and he said in the appt., that when I had talked about it before, he thought I was just being overly emotional, and didn't read very far into my words. I'm not sure why, because when we had talked about it, there was no yelling, no tears, nothing but calmness on both parts. Initially, he was hurt and disappointed, but by the end of the appt., he was angry, and was saying things out of anger. The therapist pointed out how when we talk, we talk about the past, and go in circles, which is true, and something he really focused on when continuing the conversation, bringing up past things, but calling me out when I responded in kind.

So, it's done, we have another appt. to touch base and see where we're at in 8 weeks. The dogs and I are staying with my parents for a few days, and I'm probably more concerned for them than for me. My girl is happy to just be around people she loves and trusts. My boy and I are very in-tune to one another, and his eyes speak volumes. He silently questions often, and I can tell that he knows something is going on. I feel awful for putting them through this. I also didn't expect to feel so awful, but expected to feel more relief. My stomach feels like someone has used it for a punching bag, and I feel horrible for hurting H and those close to him. How long does this feeling last?

I'll be going back to my place at the end of the week, but will swing by tonight to see what shape it's in. I talked to him Mom yesterday, and going by what she had said, he was out of the house, and it sounds like he's moved back in with her.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Well if he went to stay with his mom, then why would you stay away from the house all week? No sense in uprooting yourself.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> Well if he went to stay with his mom, then why would you stay away from the house all week? No sense in uprooting yourself.


Just in case he's forgotten something and wants to go back for it. I also want to email my new lawyer and see if/when I'm allowed to change the locks. I'm not so worried for myself, as I put myself in this situation, but I don't want him to go in during the day to take the dogs.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

If this is a trial separation, then why would you change the locks? THat seems a little extreme... Was his anger concerning for you? If he takes the dogs, are you afraid he wont bring them back?


----------



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Ursula said:


> Just in case he's forgotten something and wants to go back for it. I also want to email my new lawyer and see if/when I'm allowed to change the locks. I'm not so worried for myself, as I put myself in this situation, but I don't want him to go in during the day to take the dogs.


I would encourage you to change the locks on the house. Not to be a jerk toward him but boundaries are important right now and you don't want him going in and out of the house as he pleases.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> If this is a trial separation, then why would you change the locks? THat seems a little extreme... Was his anger concerning for you? If he takes the dogs, are you afraid he wont bring them back?


It does seem extreme, but as @Cooper pointed out in his post, boundaries are important, and I really don't want him going in and out as he pleases. I've contacted my lawyer to ask about this, and to see if it's something I'll be allowed to do, or if it needs to wait until the next appt. in 8 weeks. If that's the case, I'll probably go back from time to time, but the dogs will remain elsewhere. And yes, his anger was concerning to me, as I had basically just rejected him.


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

@Ursula I'm glad this has finally happened, and seems to be going ok. You definitely needed this. *hugs*


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> @Ursula I'm glad this has finally happened, and seems to be going ok. You definitely needed this. *hugs*


Thanks for the virtual hugs, @FeministInPink, I needed that. It hurts and I feel horrible for putting everyone through this, but in the end, I don't want to live like that for the rest of my life, and I want both him and I to find someone who will be our equals in terms of lifestyle, life goals and values. I think that's really important to have. We had LOADS of things in common, but those interests and hobbies mean nothing when the goals and values aren't at least similar.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I know it's tough but just take it a day at a time (or an hour at a time -- as I often did). 

Soon you'll be home again.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Thanks to everyone who helped me out and gave me advice. I know that at times, it probably felt like I wasn't going to take action and do anything. I just needed to do it in my own time. But, all of the advice was (and still is) greatly appreciated!!


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Ursula said:


> Thanks for the virtual hugs, @FeministInPink, I needed that. It hurts and I feel horrible for putting everyone through this, but in the end, I don't want to live like that for the rest of my life, and I want both him and I to find someone who will be our equals in terms of lifestyle, life goals and values. I think that's really important to have. We had LOADS of things in common, but those interests and hobbies mean nothing when the goals and values aren't at least similar.


Sometimes what is best for us is the hardest and most painful choice. It's so much easier to stick with the status quo, even if it makes us unhappy, because that is the easiest choice. 

You have chosen the more difficult path, and it's going to be painful for you. But what you stand to gain from this decision is worth it. Take it from me, and from all the other people on TAM who were in your shoes at one point. It will take time, but it will get better. And someday you will look back at all this and marvel at how far you've come and how much better your life is.

When you need support and things seem to be more than you can handle, come here. We will support you and hold your hand.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I believe our kids in the long run will see our strength and will look positively upon it. Even if it is difficult today, because change always causes some anxiety. Try to put a positive spin on things with your kids. Don't lie to them, but point out the positive aspects.

Sometimes doing the right thing is hard, but in the end your kids will learn from your example about doing what is right and about standing up for yourself in relationships.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Thor said:


> I believe our kids in the long run will see our strength and will look positively upon it. Even if it is difficult today, because change always causes some anxiety. Try to put a positive spin on things with your kids. Don't lie to them, but point out the positive aspects.
> 
> Sometimes doing the right thing is hard, but in the end your kids will learn from your example about doing what is right and about standing up for yourself in relationships.


Thor, my kids are furry and 4-leged with waggy tails. :smile2:
That doesn't mean though that they don't sense the changes, and that Mama is sad right now, and Papa is no longer around. They're much smarter and more sensitive than we realize, sometimes!


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Ursula said:


> Thor, my kids are furry and 4-leged with waggy tails. :smile2:
> 
> That doesn't mean though that they don't sense the changes, and that Mama is sad right now, and Papa is no longer around. They're much smarter and more sensitive than we realize, sometimes!




They will adapt 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Ursula said:
> 
> 
> > Thor, my kids are furry and 4-leged with waggy tails. :smile2:
> ...


Yes, they will. And they will bring you a lot of comfort and love in this time of transition. My cats were a surprising source of emotional support when my XH moved out.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ursula said:


> Thanks for the virtual hugs, @FeministInPink, I needed that. It hurts and I feel horrible for putting everyone through this, but in the end, I don't want to live like that for the rest of my life, and I want both him and I to find someone who will be our equals in terms of lifestyle, life goals and values. I think that's really important to have. We had LOADS of things in common, but those interests and hobbies mean nothing when the goals and values aren't at least similar.


So this post sounds to me like this is NOT a trial separation, this sounds to me like you are done... am I misreading? I only ask because if you really are done, then your H does deserve to know that.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

FeministInPink said:


> Yes, they will. And they will bring you a lot of comfort and love in this time of transition. My cats were a surprising source of emotional support when my XH moved out.




My dogs have been EVERYTHING to me through this whole effed up process. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> So this post sounds to me like this is NOT a trial separation, this sounds to me like you are done... am I misreading? I only ask because if you really are done, then your H does deserve to know that.


As I've read @Ursula's posts, she's been calling it a trial separation, but her posts definitely give off the vibe of "I am over and done with this." 

When the XH and I split up, we were calling it a trial separation, but he was clearly done the minute he walked out the door. And while I maintained the possibility and was open to reconciliation, there was part of my brain, way in the back there, which knew that is was really over... that part of my brain was waiting for the rest of me to catch up.

If she needs to call it a trial separation to make the transition easier, then that's what she needs. I get it.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I went through the same during my separation and divorce, @Ursula. I didn't know what to call it, but I just had to move out, moved back home, and it took a while for me to actually call the relationship done even though I kind of knew in the back of my head that it was.

Thats the confusion that hits when you're trying to take a certain direction but it's filled with apprehension and uncertainty. If that makes any sense.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> As I've read @Ursula's posts, she's been calling it a trial separation, but her posts definitely give off the vibe of "I am over and done with this."
> 
> When the XH and I split up, we were calling it a trial separation, but he was clearly done the minute he walked out the door. And while I maintained the possibility and was open to reconciliation, there was part of my brain, way in the back there, which knew that is was really over... that part of my brain was waiting for the rest of me to catch up.
> 
> If she needs to call it a trial separation to make the transition easier, then that's what she needs. I get it.


 @3Xnocharm, @FeministInPink and @Satya pretty much hit the nail on the head. I'm calling it a trial separation #1, because I don't know what else to call it, and #2, because I wanted to ease the transition for my husband. He's a fantastic person (just not the person for me), but his personality is a bit quirky, and with all the mental illness in his family, I thought that a gradual transition would be better for him. So did a couple others that I spoke to about this, including a therapist. He also is the type of person who, no matter how unhappy or how unhealthy a situation that it gets to be, he wants to keep "trying". Trying is in quotes because to be honest, not much has been worked on in the last 6 months besides myself through therapy, and realizing that my values and life goals ARE worth something, and I shouldn't feel badly for wanting certain things in my life that aren't available in my current relationship.


----------

