# Isolated Men



## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

On this site and IRL I see a lot of married men who have no friends. I have friends, my brothers do, my Dad did, it seems pathological not to.

Some of the classical ways guys had friends aren't as popular as they once were, e.g. going to the bar after work, hunting camp. 

I think some wives feel that a husband w/ no friends is easier to push around/control.

Can you think of other reasons married men are less likely to have friends than in the past?

I am not saying women aren't ever isolated, but this thread isn't about it. Feel free to start one that is.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm not ready to blame women in general though I'm sure some are shrewish enough.

Maybe low T?

I see what you are talking about though. I have friends and we get together as we can. I've also seen many men starving for friendship and almost embarrassingly obsequious about getting an invite to some activity.


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## BeetleJuice53 (Dec 29, 2018)

It can only happen if you let it.
If I was told I can't do something with friends without a valid reason, such as forgetting a prior commitment I would be full speed ahead.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

I need no friends. Had them in high school. Etc etc. I keep in touch maybe a text message or phone call here and there. Good friends I hardly see now, I can count on one hand.
I prefer to be alone. I consider myself alpha. 
Do not need recognition or acceptance from anyone. 

Sure, camaraderie is nice, but not necessary. I prefer the company of my wife.
That said, if you ever need something, man to man, you can have the shirt off my back.
I was the guy that enjoyed buying my friends lap dances.
The dance in itself did nothing for me. I preferred the company of women. 

My dad was the same. Kept to himself, but was quick to help anyone in need if necessary. 

But that's just me. I do miss my dad. 
I'll see him again on the other side one day.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

SpinyNorman said:


> On this site and IRL I see a lot of married men who have no friends. I have friends, my brothers do, my Dad did, it seems pathological not to.
> 
> Some of the classical ways guys had friends aren't as popular as they once were, e.g. going to the bar after work, hunting camp.
> 
> ...


Work. It's hard to develop friendships when you're working 12/6 schedules.
I think social activists also worked to have created isolated men so they are easier to control.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

I was alienated from my friends and family systematically. I didn’t even realize what was going on…until I did. I have reconnected with many over the last two years. Friends and family have gotten me through my divorce. I couldn’t imagine life without them, yet that was my life just two years ago. It happens. I see many men come on here with their first post saying “I have no one to talk to IRL”….breaks my heart.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I've observed that many of my friends husbands seen to have their social lives through their wives. So while they do seem to have friends most of their socializing is done with the other husbands in the larger couple friends group.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> I've observed that many of my friends husbands seen to have their social lives through their wives. So while they do seem to have friends most of their socializing is done with the other husbands in the larger couple friends group.


Thanks. Do you think this is more due to the wive's wishes or the husbands?


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

DoctorManhattan said:


> I need no friends. Had them in high school. Etc etc. I keep in touch maybe a text message or phone call here and there. Good friends I hardly see now, I can count on one hand.
> I prefer to be alone. I consider myself alpha.
> Do not need recognition or acceptance from anyone.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of men either don't want or don't know how to make or maintain friendships. Some of these will follow their wive's lead and befriend people she leads him to. However, in the event of an ugly breakup, he is likely to be alone in the world, which for some people is ok but for many is not, and for the latter is a particularly bad time to be alone.

Some just rely on their W for all of their companionship. This has the above mentioned hazard, as well as if she dies.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I've observed that many of my friends husbands seen to have their social lives through their wives. So while they do seem to have friends most of their socializing is done with the other husbands in the larger couple friends group.


I've seen this as well and I can't help but think it isn't very healthy.

The only real friends I have are those met outside of the men I've met through friends of Mrs. C.


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## DoctorManhattan (Jan 22, 2019)

SpinyNorman said:


> I think a lot of men either don't want or don't know how to make or maintain friendships. Some of these will follow their wive's lead and befriend people she leads him to. However, in the event of an ugly breakup, he is likely to be alone in the world, which for some people is ok but for many is not, and for the latter is a particularly bad time to be alone.
> 
> Some just rely on their W for all of their companionship. This has the above mentioned hazard, as well as if she dies.


Fair enough. 
When I went through divorce 12 or so yrs ago, it hurt like a motherf...

When I ripped the band-aid, soon afterwards my life consisted of sleep, steak on the grill, tend to my business, hit the gym, rinse and repeat. I grew mentally and physically. I realized when shi...hit the fan, you are alone. You can either choose to stand alone, or crawl into a hole alone.
I chose to get up, hit the gym, run distances, short sprints, whatever, long distances. 
Go to sleep (you can't feel pain while sleeping) when I wasn't doing any of the above, because I was depressed. I was in pain, but I made myself snap out of it. Don't get me wrong, I still wanted to die.

Just myself w help from the person who created me. He understood what I was going through, even if I didn't. 
...........
I came out better on the other side. Bigger. Stronger. Calmer. Happier although I rarely smile. 
I never seeked another female, or many females. I was tired. I was depressed. I was dead. .....
Isolation is good.
..........
I do have 2 or 3 male friends. Haven't seen them in yrs. But I'm happy..my wife doesn't control me or tell me what to wear etc. I mostly determine how we pass our time.
Since I've already walked the fire once, I know you don't die. So if it came down to it, I'd do it again if I had to. I don't want to. But IF I had to.
.........
On the flip side. I see all these male clubs and crews, if you want to call them that, different social groups, and when one isn't looking, the other is hitting on the wife..
Chumps. But they portray a big bad fake alpha facade...smh


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> I've seen this as well and I can't help but think it isn't very healthy.


I think it depends on the person. Some thrive on having a large circle of friends and cultivate those friendships. Others don't need a large group and only have a few if any friends.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Normally...

A friend of the man must be a friend of the family.

If not, therein makes the friction that breaks away friendships.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

My gf has enjoyed meeting my friends and me, hers. We have both hung out with each other’s friends. She actually told me that she was glad I had friends, many for over 25 years now. She would have seen it as a red flag if I didn’t have friends. To her, it proves that I can have long lasting relationships even if I’ve had two failed marriages.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Years ago, people tended, generally, to remain in the same place all of their lives so they were able to build friendships and maintain them throughout their lives. Some people moved out of town, but not that many.

However, oftentimes these days people have to move long distances for work, so the family is uprooted and friendships wither and die.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> I think it depends on the person. Some thrive on having a large circle of friends and cultivate those friendships. Others don't need a large group and only have a few if any friends.


I get that but I'm referring to only having men friends you meet through your wife's acquaintances as being unhealthy.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

My longest friend and I have had an unbroken friendship for over 45 years.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> I get that but I'm referring to only having men friends you meet through your wife's acquaintances as being unhealthy.


Yes that is unhealthy. Misread your post


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> My longest friend and I have had an unbroken friendship for over 45 years.


My longest friend died in 2016. Haven't really taken time to make a new one


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## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

I have friends, my wife still push me over and walk over me like a carpet, unless I decided to shut her out and give her no attention.
I don’t want I blame the other sex for cause men to have no friends. Or claim men with no friends are easy prey. I think (some) women just do what they do. Friends or no friends means very little to them.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Numb26 said:


> My longest friend died in 2016. Haven't really taken time to make a new one


Sorry to hear that. I’m sure he was happy to know you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> My longest friend died in 2016. Haven't really taken time to make a new one


Sorry to hear that. I honestly don't see being able to do any differently than you.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> Sorry to hear that. I’m sure he was happy to know you.


I was lucky to know him. Great guy


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Sorry to hear that. I honestly don't see being able to do any differently than you.


There is no way to create decades of trust, pain, laughing and such. Makes it hard


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

SpinyNorman said:


> I think a lot of men either don't want or don't know how to make or maintain friendships. Some of these will follow their wive's lead and befriend people she leads him to. However, in the event of an ugly breakup, he is likely to be alone in the world, which for some people is ok but for many is not, and for the latter is a particularly bad time to be alone.
> 
> Some just rely on their W for all of their companionship. This has the above mentioned hazard, as well as if she dies.


Men don't develop friendships. They have mutual interests. 

My suggestion for lonely men is figure out your interests in life and join clubs or Facebook groups or other social media that shares those interests.
In the worst cases, in the event of a divorce, you'll still have your interests to keep you going.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

I have a good friend that I met the first day of kindergarten! BUT I don't have a ton of other friends.
Most of the guys I am/was friendly with were from work, but since I lived about 2+ hours away on a train, and none of them live near me, it's really hard to do anything to keep up a friendship. We would sometimes go out after work for a quick drink, or I would do a lot of walks during lunch around the city, but not a lot of other time -- we are just physically too far away.
Very hard to make new friends where I live.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

jonty30 said:


> Men don't develop friendships. They have mutual interests.


Not 100% true, like most gender statements. Do you think a generation or two ago this was more/less true?


> My suggestion for lonely men is figure out your interests in life and join clubs or Facebook groups or other social media that shares those interests.
> In the worst cases, in the event of a divorce, you'll still have your interests to keep you going.


Hobbies are a good thing.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

SpinyNorman said:


> Not 100% true, like most gender statements. Do you think a generation or two ago this was more/less true?


Most men live for purpose. The people they associate with tend to serve a purpose. 
I don't know many men who hang around with other men just to shoot bull or gossip like women. 

How many men do you know that sit in the backyard, just to gossip and wouldn't rather be doing some work or hobby?
It's one of the reasons why women complain about men not paying attention to them, because they are caught up in their workload or purposes.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

SpinyNorman said:


> Thanks. Do you think this is more due to the wive's wishes or the husbands?


I think the husbands are steeped in family life and it's easier to just socialize with the other husbands. I also think there's something to the idea that once a person marries or partners up they start to have couple friends. 

Of course that doesn't mean separate friendships shouldn't be maintained, but when you have couple friends generally everyone supports everyone else's marriage which is good.

But I also know that the husbands will sometimes do things together without the wives and from what I can see the wives are fine with that.

My best running friend, who I've known for 16 years, is married and her husband often asks if my bf will be around when we get together. They're about the same age and he likes spending time with his wife while having another guy to BS with.

My bf doesn't seem to have many guy friends that he hangs out with though he does have friends he keeps in touch with. He's close to his brother and they hang out, though probably less since he's been with me. His brother and I get along well enough so no issues there....it's just that gf's and sex are hard to compete with 😀


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

DoctorManhattan said:


> Fair enough.
> When I went through divorce 12 or so yrs ago, it hurt like a motherf...
> I realized when shi...hit the fan, you are alone. You can either choose to stand alone, or crawl into a hole alone.


This may be the best approach for you, but it isn't the only one and not the best one for me. Divorce was a bad time for me, but having friends made it better.


> On the flip side. I see all these male clubs and crews, if you want to call them that, different social groups, and when one isn't looking, the other is hitting on the wife..
> Chumps. But they portray a big bad fake alpha facade...smh


Not sure what you're referring to, doesn't sound familiar.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

jonty30 said:


> Men don't develop friendships. They have mutual interests.


^^This


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

jonty30 said:


> Most men live for purpose. The people they associate with tend to serve a purpose.
> I don't know many men who hang around with other men just to shoot bull or gossip like women.
> 
> How many men do you know that sit in the backyard, just to gossip and wouldn't rather be doing some work or hobby?
> It's one of the reasons why women complain about men not paying attention to them, because they are caught up in their workload or purposes.


Thanks, I started the thread to find out why this seems to happen and it is informative to hear other people's perspectives.

My perspective is, you can be friends w/o gossiping like women. I do useful stuff as well as hobbies w/ friends, and also shoot the bull sometimes.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

SpinyNorman said:


> Thanks, I started the thread to find out why this seems to happen and it is informative to hear other people's perspectives.
> 
> My perspective is, you can be friends w/o gossiping like women. I do useful stuff as well as hobbies w/ friends, and also shoot the bull sometimes.


You might shoot the bull while doing stuff. , that's true enough.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

jlg07 said:


> I have a good friend that I met the first day of kindergarten! BUT I don't have a ton of other friends.
> Most of the guys I am/was friendly with were from work, but since I lived about 2+ hours away on a train, and none of them live near me, it's really hard to do anything to keep up a friendship. We would sometimes go out after work for a quick drink, or I would do a lot of walks during lunch around the city, but not a lot of other time -- we are just physically too far away.
> Very hard to make new friends where I live.


I don't think I have a ton of friends, I have a handful and a longer list of acquaintances. It varies a lot how often I see them, as well as how often we phone/email/etc. That doesn't seem unusual or worrisome to me.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

I have 4 groups of friends. Guys I met in high school, guys I met doing my graduate degree, guys I work with, and guys I met in the last few years who belong to the "married to someone with mental illness" club. Some I talk to every day (dumb/funny videos, memes, etc), some I talk to a few times a week (sports or politics chat generally), some maybe once a month or two to catch up, and a handful call every few months to chat for an hour or to meet up for drinks. I don't see any of them very often anymore (used to be weekly) and some friends were lost along the way, but it's not because I'm married.

Some reasons from them... Depression and not wanting to socialize, getting a new GF and putting all his attention there, starting families and having wives who won't let the husband go out and want all of his time (I know several like this). For those first three, after a while people will give up on the friendship. Another is people getting into new hobbies or careers and finding more likeminded friends. For that one, it will be pretty hard for a guy to make new friends if he has no hobbies outside of the house. People are also a lot less neighborly these days, in my experience, and some people just suck to be around. 



lifeistooshort said:


> I've observed that many of my friends husbands seen to have their social lives through their wives. So while they do seem to have friends most of their socializing is done with the other husbands in the larger couple friends group.


For me, it has been the opposite (if it happens at all). I can think of quite a few marriages (including mine and my parents) where the wives have no friends and never or rarely socialize. If they do, it's with the husband's friends or their wives.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

My husband is very social. His main group of friends are from elementary, middle, and high school. He's known them for years, they are like family to him. 

We've moved to different states and he seems to carry over friends from all those states as well.

I can't imagine him without friends. He has a very outgoing personality. He thrives in social situations and he has no problem meeting new people.

I'm completely the opposite. I'm an introvert who gets overwhelmed by social situations. I have friends but I don't chat or talk to them so often like my husband does. 

I have no problem if he wants to go out with his friends. He travels with his friends too. I have no problem with that either. I don't get jealous of whatever he's doing, and I don't want him stuck to my hip either. I need him to have a life outside of our family and marriage. I think that's healthy for both of us.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> I'm not ready to blame women in general though I'm sure some are shrewish enough.



Come on. How many guys do you know that once they got married they disappeared never to be seen again? my buddies who leaned blue pill I haven't seen in years. No decades. And I know why. I feel bad for them actually since they are really busting it and were married to fill the provider role. They didn't even know it.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

pastasauce79 said:


> My husband is very social. His main group of friends are from elementary, middle, and high school. He's known them for years, they are like family to him.
> 
> We've moved to different states and he seems to carry over friends from all those states as well.
> 
> ...


Even if a husband is less social, men should maintain their own interests within the marriage.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

SpinyNorman said:


> On this site and IRL I see a lot of married men who have no friends. I have friends, my brothers do, my Dad did, it seems pathological not to.
> 
> Some of the classical ways guys had friends aren't as popular as they once were, e.g. going to the bar after work, hunting camp.
> 
> ...


I think it is sampling bias too. A sign that men need emotional support and if they do not have friends, they are more likely to resort to an internet forum sooner.


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

I wish my ex husband had of had some friends, at least one. He claimed it was his ex wife who stopped him from seeing them, but over the years I saw a few people keep reaching out to him, trying to organise things with him, he just didn't answer their messages. He was a rubbish communicator and those friendships withered because of that. His family were equally as bad so he didn't even have his 2 brothers to hang with.

I guess it can be down to the individual sometimes.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Years ago, people tended, generally, to remain in the same place all of their lives so they were able to build friendships and maintain them throughout their lives. Some people moved out of town, but not that many.
> 
> However, oftentimes these days people have to move long distances for work, so the family is uprooted and friendships wither and die.


i remember a LOT of family parties when i was a kid.
but after everyone grew up, and moved all over the country, we rarely meet again. once in a while there is a wedding or funeral that pulls us all back together for a short time. 

i guess the same can be said for friends. we all had schooltime friends, either grade, highschool, college, but they also moved all over the country. we lost their addresses, lost their phone numbers, their email addresses eventually become obsolete. 

UNLESS you spend a lot of time to find NEW FRIENDS where ever you land, and are extroverted, the quantity of friends is bound do drop.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> I've seen this as well and I can't help but think it isn't very healthy.
> 
> The only real friends I have are those met outside of the men I've met through friends of Mrs. C.


This is the difference between "friends" and "acquaintances" 

Similar to choosing your spouse and and arranged marriage.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

manowar said:


> Come on. How many guys do you know that once they got married they disappeared never to be seen again? my buddies who leaned blue pill I haven't seen in years. No decades. And I know why. I feel bad for them actually since they are really busting it and were married to fill the provider role. They didn't even know it.


I had two friends like that. One I've never seen again even though he got divorced and I never stopped trying with the other because he tried as well and we never lost touch.

My other long term friend married late in life to a Philippine lady and she is as much fun to be around as him. My wife loves that I have friends as well.

Can't paint with too broad a brush. There are very solid women out there and probably some that are near being solid but had rotten teaching.
My friends and I are older men at 50 so we might be out of touch with today's situations.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Talker67 said:


> i remember a LOT of family parties when i was a kid.
> but after everyone grew up, and moved all over the country, we rarely meet again. once in a while there is a wedding or funeral that pulls us all back together for a short time.
> 
> i guess the same can be said for friends. we all had schooltime friends, either grade, highschool, college, but they also moved all over the country. we lost their addresses, lost their phone numbers, their email addresses eventually become obsolete.
> ...


It seems to me people socialize less in person than they used to.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

manowar said:


> Come on. How many guys do you know that once they got married they disappeared never to be seen again? my buddies who leaned blue pill I haven't seen in years. No decades. And I know why. I feel bad for them actually since they are really busting it and were married to fill the provider role. They didn't even know it.


I think some of them are married to *****es, but we've seen on this thread some men saying they don't want to have friends, some saying they only want guys to do hobbies with, and a woman saying her BF prefers to socialize through her friends. So there is some of each.

I was a little surprised how many men said they consciously chose to not have friends, but am grateful they took the time to respond. I did learn something.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

This is an interesting topic. Good thread.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

there ARE ways of meeting new people.
get a group training session at a gym, where you work out with the same group once or twice a week.
checkout online places like Meetup.com, where you find other guys with similar interests as you: cooking, skiing, mushroom hunting, etc
Join a sportsman's club and participate in the events/meetings


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

jonty30 said:


> Even if a husband is less social, men should maintain their own interests within the marriage.


Absolutely. I can't imagine living with someone without their own interests, hobbies, something that makes them happy outside the marriage or family.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I would imagine that factors such as change in life priorities, perhaps time and commitments, whether it's important to someone, being part of specific social groups, and location may play a part.

My husband and I are both more extroverted. We have moved around a bit, different countries and states. Where we live now is the most we have felt at home and established longer-term roots here. He joined a volunteer group and through the shared camaraderie, developed friendships. Most of those guys are married and I'm friends with their wives, so I occasionally get together with them separately, and together we see them as couples. Beyond that, he does catch up separately as friends. For me, the core of my current friends were met through work. The only friendship carried over from school is a friend I've known about 30 years, although we have since both moved, so see one another periodically.

We like each others friends, and are encouraging of those friendships with one another.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Of course that doesn't mean separate friendships shouldn't be maintained, but when you have couple friends generally everyone supports everyone else's marriage which is good.


Agreed.

To add, with those he is friends with, there's no shenanigans. My husband's friends are the type that would have his back and vice verse. That's something I respect. And perhaps selfishly, it helps me feel more comfortable with the volunteering. From my view, it extends into what they're about. If that makes any sense at all.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

SpinyNorman said:


> I was a little surprised how many men said they consciously chose to not have friends, but am grateful they took the time to respond. I did learn something.


yeah all good points. . it is surprising.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

This is a HUGE issue for many men. The timeline I see from most guys I chat with is:

1. Have close friends that you hang out with often.
2. You and your friends get married. Less time with friends.
3. You and friends have kids. Time with friends down to zero. You might have a weekend free, but your buddy has a soccer tournament in Ohio he has to go to. This goes on for years.
4. One friend gets divorced and suddenly has lots of time on his hands. He reaches out to friends... no luck. Everyone is busy with wife and kids.
5. Divorced guy tries to fill the social hole in his life by dating and quickly jumping into another relationship. This ends badly.

I run a members-only group at Dad Staring Over called the DSO Fraternity, and we recently had a big in-person meetup in Nashville (going to have our next in Austin, TX). It was painfully obvious that MANY guys there have next to no experience with close personal relationships with other men. The concept of close buddies you can have long personal conversations and fun with was foreign to them. These guys were so energized and ready to tackle the world after our meetup. That's awesome... and sad. Imagine what men can achieve with regular, meaningful social interaction and a feeling of BELONGING to something more than "I'm a dad and a husband".


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

dadstartingover said:


> Divorced guy tries to fill the social hole in his life by dating and quickly jumping into another relationship. This ends badly.


Great points above -- especially this one. This is the classic move by the blue pill recently divorced beta. Woman is typically looking for a beta provider and this sort of guy willingly jumps right back into the provider trap with an open wallet (pathetic). Even combining families like a fool. That ester villar has a point when she said s/t like "men don't know how to be free -- they seek enslavement. It's the only way modern man knows how to live". That is the theme of her book written in the 1970s.

DSO -- you should make every one of those guys read these three books:

1. The Manipulated Man -- ester villar

2. The predatory Female -- Rev Shannon

3. Female Psychology for the Practical Man -- Joe south.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

heartsbeating said:


> Agreed.
> 
> To add, with those he is friends with, there's no shenanigans. My husband's friends are the type that would have his back and vice verse. That's something I respect. And perhaps selfishly, it helps me feel more comfortable with the volunteering. From my view, it extends into what they're about. If that makes any sense at all.


Have they ever really been tested before? To see how much they have his back? Something tells me if you were a different kind of woman, decided to get a little drunk and flirt with one of them one night, that their true nature wouldn't take long to reveal itself. 

And that's just it. Maybe I've just been unlucky, but I've never seen male relationships where one guy wasn't happy to f the other one over, if the right opportunity arises. I'm going to bring that into my life again so I can have someone to chat about fantasy football with? No thanks. Not worth it. And if it helps, I got rid of all my male friends way before I started dating my wife. She would prefer if I had a few.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

gaius said:


> Have they ever really been tested before? To see how much they have his back? Something tells me if you were a different kind of woman, decided to get a little drunk and flirt with one of them one night, that their true nature wouldn't take long to reveal itself.
> 
> And that's just it. Maybe I've just been unlucky, but I've never seen male relationships where one guy wasn't happy to f the other one over, if the right opportunity arises. I'm going to bring that into my life again so I can have someone to chat about fantasy football with? No thanks. Not worth it. And if it helps, I got rid of all my male friends way before I started dating my wife. She would prefer if I had a few.


Without the need to test that, I feel confident this would not be the case.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Plus what bonded them does require them very much to have each others back.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

gaius said:


> Have they ever really been tested before? To see how much they have his back? Something tells me if you were a different kind of woman, decided to get a little drunk and flirt with one of them one night, that their true nature wouldn't take long to reveal itself.
> 
> And that's just it. Maybe I've just been unlucky, but I've never seen male relationships where one guy wasn't happy to f the other one over, if the right opportunity arises. I'm going to bring that into my life again so I can have someone to chat about fantasy football with? No thanks. Not worth it. And if it helps, I got rid of all my male friends way before I started dating my wife. She would prefer if I had a few.


You'll find that the most likely kind of male, who would screw over his friend, would be the alpha male doing that to a beta male.
Although, it's contextual. If a male tried to hit on my wife, there would be no second chance. He would be completely erased from my life. I wouldn't care if he had been inebriated.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

gaius said:


> Have they ever really been tested before? To see how much they have his back? Something tells me if you were a different kind of woman, decided to get a little drunk and flirt with one of them one night, that their true nature wouldn't take long to reveal itself.
> 
> And that's just it. Maybe I've just been unlucky, but *I've never seen male relationships where one guy wasn't happy to f the other one over, if the right opportunity arises.* I'm going to bring that into my life again so I can have someone to chat about fantasy football with? No thanks. Not worth it. And if it helps, I got rid of all my male friends way before I started dating my wife. She would prefer if I had a few.


I continue to learn things about some men's lives. Thanks for posting.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> You'll find that the most likely kind of male, who would screw over his friend, would be the alpha male doing that to a beta male.
> Although, it's contextual. If a male tried to hit on my wife, there would be no second chance. He would be completely erased from my life. I wouldn't care if he had been inebriated.


Alphas, betas, gammas and deltas will all stab each other if the time is right.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

gaius said:


> Alphas, betas, gammas and deltas will all stab each other if the time is right.


Potentially, I suppose. 
But it's only if they can get away with it. A beta doesn't want the crap beaten out of him, so he's less likely to pull things.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> Potentially, I suppose.
> But it's only if they can get away with it. A beta doesn't want the crap beaten out of him, so he's less likely to pull things.


I think there's something in most, if not all men, that just triggers when they see an opportunity to get over on another guy. Especially when it comes to women. And loyalty, friendship, whether or not they're going to get beat up, it all falls by the wayside rather quickly. 

For example, Will Smith probably could have ended the career of that no name guy who banged his wife but noname didn't care one bit. He's busy rapping about it he's so proud.

I've been both the victim and the perpetrator of that so I'm not complaining really. That's just how it is. No matter who you are.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

gaius said:


> I think there's something in most, if not all men, that just triggers when they see an opportunity to get over on another guy. Especially when it comes to women. And loyalty, friendship, whether or not they're going to get beat up, it all falls by the wayside rather quickly.
> 
> For example, Will Smith probably could have ended the career of that no name guy who banged his wife but noname didn't care one bit. He's busy rapping about it he's so proud.
> 
> I've been both the victim and the perpetrator of that so I'm not complaining really. That's just how it is. No matter who you are.


It's not something I would do, and not just because I'm concerned for my health and continued existence. It's not who I am.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

jonty30 said:


> It's not something I would do, and not just because I'm concerned for my health and continued existence. It's not who I am.


That's exactly what I thought before my friends girlfriend started hitting on me many years ago. It was shocking how quickly in my head he went from good guy to douchebag when he all of a sudden had something I could have. 

I'd like nothing better for you or any other guy to be tested and prove me wrong. This is one topic I'd enjoy being wrong about.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

gaius said:


> That's exactly what I thought before my friends girlfriend started hitting on me many years ago. It was shocking how quickly in my head he went from good guy to douchebag when he all of a sudden had something I could have.
> 
> I'd like nothing better for you or any other guy to be tested and prove me wrong. This is one topic I'd enjoy being wrong about.


I can never say never, but I really don't think that I am at risk, because my reaction is already predetermined.
I would be at risk if I was unaware of a woman's status or if I was aware that she was single.

Just something about marriage that creates an impenetrable barrier to me.

It does remind me of a story that I heard.
This guy was dating his girlfriend and she decided to introduce him to his family.
She left the room and her real hot sister started hitting on him and he was weakening, so he got up to get his shoes and leave the house.
His girlfriend came out of a bedroom and gave him a huge hug and kiss on the cheek for being unwilling to cheat.

He learned that keeping condoms in the car was a really good idea.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

gaius said:


> Have they ever really been tested before? To see how much they have his back? Something tells me if you were a different kind of woman, decided to get a little drunk and flirt with one of them one night, that their true nature wouldn't take long to reveal itself.
> 
> And that's just it. Maybe I've just been unlucky, but I've never seen male relationships where one guy wasn't happy to f the other one over, if the right opportunity arises. I'm going to bring that into my life again so I can have someone to chat about fantasy football with? No thanks. Not worth it. And if it helps, I got rid of all my male friends way before I started dating my wife. She would prefer if I had a few.


Also to add, most are married themselves. 

There's a mutual respect and if I hypothetically imagined the actions you mentioned, if anything, could quite easily imagine them actively discouraging shenanigans. I think the group around us are solid.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

gaius said:


> I think there's something in most, if not all men, that just triggers when they see an opportunity to get over on another guy. Especially when it comes to women. And loyalty, friendship, whether or not they're going to get beat up, it all falls by the wayside rather quickly.
> 
> For example, Will Smith probably could have ended the career of that no name guy who banged his wife but noname didn't care one bit. He's busy rapping about it he's so proud.
> 
> I've been both the victim and the perpetrator of that so I'm not complaining really. That's just how it is. No matter who you are.


Will Smith is a wimp/b1tch married to a mangy ally cat.

I've never knowingly messed with another man's woman and that goes double for friends.

I don't have many friends but they would never try to insult my wife and myself by making a move on her. 

We had one couple we were friends with and they separated and he ended up hugging Mrs. Conan too tight one time. He got ghosted but he was friends through his wife to mine.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

gaius said:


> That's exactly what I thought before my friends girlfriend started hitting on me many years ago. It was shocking how quickly in my head he went from good guy to douchebag when he all of a sudden had something I could have.
> 
> I'd like nothing better for you or any other guy to be tested and prove me wrong. This is one topic I'd enjoy being wrong about.


I could have had friend's women many times over.

I don't touch what isn't mine.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

gaius said:


> I think there's something in most, if not all men, that just triggers when they see an opportunity to get over on another guy.


I think this speaks to the competitive nature of some men. Which translates to insecurity for me. So, you won the blue ribbon - BFD. Does that make a person feel they are the very bestest? It is all relative. At some point in your life, there will always be someone who is better looking, healthier, wealthier, better at whatever which changes in a nano second. The only person you need to compete with is yourself. It is the only standard that holds any meaning in your life.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> I think this speaks to the competitive nature of some men. Which translates to insecurity for me. So, you won the blue ribbon - BFD. Does that make a person feel they are the very bestest? It is all relative. At some point in your life, there will always be someone who is better looking, healthier, wealthier, better at whatever which changes in a nano second. The only person you need to compete with is yourself. It is the only standard that holds any meaning in your life.


Being competitive has nothing to do with insecurity. It's about striving to be better then you were the day before


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> Being competitive has nothing to do with insecurity. It's about striving to be better then you were the day before


I think she was speaking to the specific situation @gaius was referring to and not just general competition.

I knew a guy who was always going after taken women and she may have a point.

I know she is right about focusing on yourself and I think you both actually agree on becoming a better man.👍


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> I think she was speaking to the specific situation @gaius was referring to and not just general competition.
> 
> I knew a guy who was always going after taken women and she may have a point.
> 
> I know she is right about focusing on yourself and I think you both actually agree on becoming a better man.👍


I might have misunderstood what she was saying. You know that I am very competitive and don't consider that an insecurity.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> I might have misunderstood what she was saying. You know that I am very competitive and don't consider that an insecurity.


Yup but I don't think I've ever seen a post where you are trying to score with another man's woman either.

It's been hinted at, long ago, that I wasn't confident (insecure) and jealous (the unhealthy kind) because I'm territorial and I mate guard.

Both could have been true of me but my situation is very much the opposite. I've been more confident than is probably right in my life and my Mrs. has all the freedom in the world to dress however and interact with whomever in whatever situation as long as I'm satisfied she is safe.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

gaius said:


> I think there's something in most, if not all men, that just triggers when they see an opportunity to get over on another guy. Especially when it comes to women. And loyalty, friendship, whether or not they're going to get beat up, it all falls by the wayside rather quickly.
> 
> For example, Will Smith probably could have ended the career of that no name guy who banged his wife but noname didn't care one bit. He's busy rapping about it he's so proud.
> 
> I've been both the victim and the perpetrator of that so I'm not complaining really. That's just how it is. No matter who you are.


It's really not how it is for me. I suspect I choose different friends than you do. 

I'm not meaning to criticize you, I thank you for sharing your perspective and that's what I am doing, too.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> Being competitive has nothing to do with insecurity. It's about striving to be better then you were the day before


I think competition is a good thing, in appropriate avenues. But I'm not sure how much you meant this generally vs. in the specific avenue of trying to bed another guy's wife. 

If I compete on the tennis court, that is appropriate and I am likely to be better than I was the day before. Competing for another another guy's wife(not sure if you meant this) is not appropriate and I don't see how I would get better.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Yup but I don't think I've ever seen a post where you are trying to score with another man's woman either.
> 
> It's been hinted at, long ago, that I wasn't confident (insecure) and jealous (the unhealthy kind) because I'm territorial and I mate guard.
> 
> Both could have been true of me but my situation is very much the opposite. I've been more confident than is probably right in my life and my Mrs. has all the freedom in the world to dress however and interact with whomever in whatever situation as long as I'm satisfied she is safe.


Yeah, that's not really of interest to me. I didn't even want my EX after she had been with someone else. LMAO


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> Yeah, that's not really of interest to me. I didn't even want my EX after she had been with someone else. LMAO


And I see things the same way. I've never seen the attraction of trying to rub another man's rhubarb.😵‍💫


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I couldn't conceive of a life where I didn't have some male friends. 
That said, guys all have different categories or levels of trust groups their friends fit into, from completely trustworthy and there in any circumstance as you are for them, to some that are entertaining but are more like friendly acquaintances, and multiple levels in between the two book ends.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> Most men live for purpose. The people they associate with tend to serve a purpose.
> I don't know many men who hang around with other men just to shoot bull or gossip like women.


You've obviously never been an infantryman.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> You've obviously never been an infantryman.


I have to admit that I haven't, but you're in the army. You don't much of a choice of having to spend time with other men. You're there for a purpose.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

I am introverted, so I already do not want to have many friends. I just want a few really good ones.

I do have many “hobby” friends and a couple of them have turned into pretty good friends of mine - but I like the point that @MattMatt made about people leaving town. This is my main issue. My best friends do not live where I do. They live in my home city. My plan is to one day move my family back to my home city, but I don’t know when that will happen (if it ever does). As such, I only see or hear from them once a year, but I know we can easily pick back up where we left off in a heartbeat.

if something would ever seriously go wrong in my life, my best friends who all live 4 hours away from me would be the first guys I’m calling, not anyone local to me.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I had a lifelong friend since 1978 that i would see almost every week. I also has a tight group of friends up until a few years ago. my lifelong friend died.
my other friends, one moved to panama, another to utah, another to colorado, another to az. and another to north carolina.
as much as i missed them, it was for the better, as i got remarried and they wanted to party all the time. i'm just getting to old for that.
so, my friends are all gone. covid has made it pretty hard to get new friends, and i've been pretty much isolated with my wife since covid.
it's been fine with me, so no new friends on the horizon.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

I'm not saying having friends move away makes it easier to stay in touch, but I do maintain friendships over distance. It was a lot harder when in-country long distance phone calls cost money and email wasn't a word.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> Will Smith is a wimp/b1tch married to a mangy ally cat.
> 
> I've never knowingly messed with another man's woman and that goes double for friends.
> 
> ...


If that guy hadn't separated from his wife you'd probably still be friends with them. You would count him as a guy who hadn't messed with you. Simply because the situation needed to bring out that side of him hadn't occurred. Who knows how many of your other friends are like that? Where the right stimulus just hasn't happened yet.

I almost never experience outright, blatant disrespect. When I'm out with my wife guys don't mess with me or her. But at home in my neighborhood it always seems like there's something subtle going on.

For example, there's an older guy in my neighborhood who my wife had taken to the doctor once. He then felt at liberty to call her up and not ask, but demand she do it again on occasion. Or help him out with some other favor. Even after I had introduced myself as her boyfriend to him. He felt he could demand things from her. I had to go knock on his door and tell him to knock it off before he quit.

Another guy would ask her out whenever he saw her and I wasn't there, up to the point we got married. A third guy started coming into our yard and doing yard work without asking me or my wife. I had to knock on his door too. And most recently, some guy who moved in will avoid me when I'm out in the yard but feels at liberty to come over and talk to my wife whenever she's out there. I work on the road so I haven't had a chance to put him in his place yet but his day is coming.

And these are apparently the guys I'm supposed to have a beer with and befriend? No thanks.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

gaius said:


> If that guy hadn't separated from his wife you'd probably still be friends with them. You would count him as a guy who hadn't messed with you. Simply because the situation needed to bring out that side of him hadn't occurred. Who knows how many of your other friends are like that? Where the right stimulus just hasn't happened yet.
> 
> I almost never experience outright, blatant disrespect. When I'm out with my wife guys don't mess with me or her. But at home in my neighborhood it always seems like there's something subtle going on.
> 
> ...


The hugging guy wasn't my friend but friends through the wives acquaintance.

My friends have all been single and/or divorced through the years I've been with my wife and what I say about them is accurate.

Interesting story about that idiot in your neighborhood.

My son's fiance gets harassed by an older neighbor too.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. we haven't had too much trouble with idiots impinging on Mrs. C because I've got an earned reputation and even gently testing our boundaries gets them unpleasant results.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

gaius said:


> If that guy hadn't separated from his wife you'd probably still be friends with them. You would count him as a guy who hadn't messed with you. Simply because the situation needed to bring out that side of him hadn't occurred. Who knows how many of your other friends are like that? Where the right stimulus just hasn't happened yet.
> 
> I almost never experience outright, blatant disrespect. When I'm out with my wife guys don't mess with me or her. But at home in my neighborhood it always seems like there's something subtle going on.
> 
> ...


Well some of your neighbors sure sound crazy.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> The hugging guy wasn't my friend but friends through the wives acquaintance.
> 
> My friends have all been single and/or divorced through the years I've been with my wife and what I say about them is accurate.
> 
> ...


I get that you didn't consider that guy a personal friend. I just don't think being single is the one and only situation that will tell you if they have the potential to behave badly or not. It was for that particular guy but it might be something else for other men.

I'm not going to pretend I know your friends better than you do. If you say they're good then they're good. I've just never gotten to know or observed anyone like them myself.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

SpinyNorman said:


> Well some of your neighbors sure sound crazy.


They are. The guy who kept asking her out almost died of Covid recently. Normally I'd be glad in that situation but something about him is just sad. Him asking my wife out was like someone paralyzed trying to walk. He just doesn't get it.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

gaius said:


> And these are apparently the guys I'm supposed to have a beer with and befriend? No thanks.


IDK who thinks you should be friends w/ crazy men, I sure don't. We can post **** behavior by women until the internet runs out of bits, and then ask if these are the people we should share intimacy and legally binding commitments with, but the lesson in both cases is, you have to choose the good ones.

Of course if you'd rather do w/o either or both, that is your option.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

SpinyNorman said:


> I'm not saying having friends move away makes it easier to stay in touch, but I do maintain friendships over distance. It was a lot harder when in-country long distance phone calls cost money and email wasn't a word.


Road trips!!!

if you do a cross country road trip, say once a year, and hit all of your long lost friends, that is a big bonus. 

I stopped by to visit a friend in Kansas city a couple years ago, someone i had not seen in over a year. we had a blast for a few days. 2 months later i heard he died of heart attack. i am so glad i had a chance to see him one last time.


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## y5mgisi (Oct 20, 2021)

Just my thoughts to help me. For me, anyone my wife found to be annoying in any way, I was somehow convinced to remove from my life to protect her from having to deal with people she didn't like. As it turns out, anyone that takes a minute away from me giving her my undivided attention, is annoying to her. So now, I have no friends and have at least a mini panic attack any time a friend or family member asks if they can stop by our house or asks for me to come over. I know it's not an option because it would be inconvenient for her. So it's no longer worth it for me to try and maintain friendships. It's basically not possible. 

I know it's my fault for allowing it to happen. But I didn't realize what she was doing at the time.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

y5mgisi said:


> Just my thoughts to help me. For me, anyone my wife found to be annoying in any way, I was somehow convinced to remove from my life to protect her from having to deal with people she didn't like. As it turns out, anyone that takes a minute away from me giving her my undivided attention, is annoying to her. So now, I have no friends and have at least a mini panic attack any time a friend or family member asks if they can stop by our house or asks for me to come over. I know it's not an option because it would be inconvenient for her. So it's no longer worth it for me to try and maintain friendships. It's basically not possible.
> 
> I know it's my fault for allowing it to happen. But I didn't realize what she was doing at the time.


I don't think you're the only man this has happened to. As for it not being possible for you to have friends, I disagree. It isn't possible to get her approval, but that is a different thing.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

DoctorManhattan said:


> I need no friends. Had them in high school. Etc etc. I keep in touch maybe a text message or phone call here and there. Good friends I hardly see now, I can count on one hand.
> I prefer to be alone. I consider myself alpha.
> Do not need recognition or acceptance from anyone.
> 
> ...


I am similar. Have good friends from high school and college that I almost never see. I am 50 years old and do not go to bars anymore, more introverted the older I get, and pretty much only text. I do not miss being social at all, though when I was in my 20s (and a little bit into my 30s) I could not pass up the opportunity to "go out" with friends, or football games (partying), weekend back home/holidays going out with friends back in our home town (partying) , etc. 

Now when I spend time with my kids, stepkids, wife, next comes sister/brother dad and stepdad (mom passed 4 years ago), and in-laws. When i have my own time i tend to want to be alone. 


Honestly, most days my preference would be to be alone. I am totally happy alone. Silence is at a premium in my life.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

y5mgisi said:


> Just my thoughts to help me. For me, anyone my wife found to be annoying in any way, I was somehow convinced to remove from my life to protect her from having to deal with people she didn't like. As it turns out, anyone that takes a minute away from me giving her my undivided attention, is annoying to her. So now, I have no friends and have at least a mini panic attack any time a friend or family member asks if they can stop by our house or asks for me to come over. I know it's not an option because it would be inconvenient for her. So it's no longer worth it for me to try and maintain friendships. It's basically not possible.
> 
> I know it's my fault for allowing it to happen. But I didn't realize what she was doing at the time.


Does this make you want to be single again?


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

jonty30 said:


> Work. It's hard to develop friendships when you're working 12/6 schedules.
> I think social activists also worked to have created isolated men so they are easier to control.


um, wut?


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> My longest friend and I have had an unbroken friendship for over 45 years.


Yes, mine is 6 days younger than me and our parents were friends when we were born and we have been friends our whole lives. In high school we developed the same friends so we have stayed friends. I went to a football game with him about a month ago, the week we both turned 50, and i think it was the first time I had seen him in like 4 years. He had not even met my wife ( I didn't realize this til we met him at his tailgate before the game).


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

manowar said:


> Come on. How many guys do you know that once they got married they disappeared never to be seen again? my buddies who leaned blue pill I haven't seen in years. No decades. And I know why. I feel bad for them actually since they are really busting it and were married to fill the provider role. They didn't even know it.


"leaned blue pill"; please elaborate-- why do you feel bad (ly) for them? Are they unhappy?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

uwe.blab said:


> Yes, mine is 6 days younger than me and our parents were friends when we were born and we have been friends our whole lives. In high school we developed the same friends so we have stayed friends. I went to a football game with him about a month ago, the week we both turned 50, and i think it was the first time I had seen him in like 4 years. He had not even met my wife ( I didn't realize this til we met him at his tailgate before the game).


We have a very similar situation and we are the same age even. We know each other's wives though.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> We have a very similar situation and we are the same age even. We know each other's wives though.


I remarried 3 years ago, but he has been married over 20 years and I have known his wife since they were dating. So basically we havent seen each other much in the last 4 years or so. Even before that though it was not too often. Partly because I lived in other states for more than 15 years and he lived in our home city.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

I have very few friends but it has always been that way. It comes with the territory of being an introvert who has some obscure passions/hobbies. Also, quite busy between work and family. Pretty much nonstop until 9 pm monday to friday and then I make a priority of being with my 7 year old on Saturdays. Does not leave a ton of time for socializing.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

I wish my husband had more friends. 

We moved not too long ago, and we both need to work on making new friends.



dadstartingover said:


> Imagine what men can achieve with regular, meaningful social interaction and a feeling of BELONGING to something more than "I'm a dad and a husband".


No one is "just" a dad, husband. He's still a whole person, still a man. He has needs, desires, dreams etc., and he should still have friends.

I know this is about men specifically, but it's not good for women either. It's not good for anyone to completely lose their identity, who they really are, and be relegated to only filling certain roles - for other people.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

theloveofmylife said:


> I wish my husband had more friends.
> 
> We moved not too long ago, and we both need to work on making new friends.
> 
> ...


In between everything a man has to do to contribute to the household, it's very difficult for most men to make friends once they marry. Most that have friends usually kept them from childhood or college.
He should be encouraged to develop his interests. From there, he might make some connections.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

SpinyNorman said:


> On this site and IRL I see a lot of married men who have no friends. I have friends, my brothers do, my Dad did, it seems pathological not to.
> 
> Some of the classical ways guys had friends aren't as popular as they once were, e.g. going to the bar after work, hunting camp.
> 
> I think some wives feel that a husband w/ no friends is easier to push around/control.


This nailed it on the head for me. I don't know if my idiot ex-wife thought she could control me or push me around, but she did alienate me from my friends, therefore during the latter parts of our marriage I had none.

I've reconnected and do things with them quite a bit.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

jonty30 said:


> In between everything a man has to do to contribute to the household, it's very difficult for most men to make friends once they marry. Most that have friends usually kept them from childhood or college.
> He should be encouraged to develop his interests. From there, he might make some connections.


Unless he fishes, hunts, rides motorcycles, plays cards, likes to have bbqs, church member, other clubs, etc etc.

What does get in the way for some men is work like over focusing on work when there are a few spare minutes here and there, and a W that wants him to have friends, but not have fun, only do something on her schedule. Yes, that's an oxymoron I know.

Work for M and caring for family is built in to many of us and even when over the hump, many can't chill now and then, that's a real thing.

And the poor guy that succumbs to Ws vision of how he should pigeonhole his time is lost from jumpstreet.

Not all Ws are like that, and I celebrate all who aren't. But it happens.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Unless he fishes, hunts, rides motorcycles, plays cards, likes to have bbqs, church member, other clubs, etc etc.
> 
> What does get in the way for some men is work like over focusing on work when there are a few spare minutes here and there, and a W that wants him to have friends, but not have fun, only do something on her schedule. Yes, that's an oxymoron I know.
> 
> ...


I agree with you in that making friends is not everybody's thing, but we should as a habit have something that we look forward to doing that occupies us that is fun to do. 
I'm not offhand defining anybody's sense of fun, other than to say that we should all have some.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

This is a great topic to discuss btw.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I guess I would fit in the "extreme isolation" section. I think while being attached, family life just absorbed my time that drew me away from other friends. It has been years since I just "hung out" with anyone. I get calls every now and again because I know lots of smart things so people ask my advice. However, no one calls to go do anything because every single person I know is attached and they just do their 'couples stuff'. I don't ask, I don't need to be the third wheel. Probably the most depressing realization is when I am working and I realize it is Saturday night and I am sitting on my parent's couch talking to them. 

It is not really that I can't make friends, it is that I don't want to put effort into male friends and have to explain myself, all that I do and know, and sort of seek acceptance. It's the same as dating. Just over it. By now, men have their little circles based on their partners. 

I identify as a Sigma though, not really Alpha because I 100% operate alone. I get annoyed having to drive in city traffic at times because I am in the country by myself. I try to plan my visits to stores when they are not busy. 

As far as the other men I know, they are in relationships and though some might say they are "whipped", most of these guys are Alphas and just prefer to be in their little family click. That is just how it works around here. 

One poster mentioned about men don't gossip, they do things. That is precisely how I am!! Nearly impossible for me to just sit a talk and not actually be doing something constructive. I was working at a best friend's shop yesterday. He came out in the shop to chit chat for a bit, see what I was up to, and promptly rolled out to race to his girl friend's place. 
If there is one thing I have realized in the past 4yrs, it is that women have a safety net of girl friends, and guys will chat them up. Men are attracted to other men by toys. Buy a fancy boat, all the dudes are your friend now. Get a Lambo, more friends. Not really your "friends", but you know.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

A man needs friends and his own social circle. The problem is too many men put their wives as the center of their life instead of a compliment to their life.


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