# Am I overreacting??



## sgdgolf (Sep 11, 2018)

Hi all.

So here is my story: I am 49, my wife 46, been married for 23 years. Our troubles started in 2013 when I caught her lying to me about seeing another man. I do not know the extent of the relationship, but I know that they went to Yoga together several times a week and shopping together, driving in the same car. She did not see that guy anymore to the best of my knowledge, after I confronted her about it.

A year later in 2014 I did something stupid. I was still pondering if my wife still loved me and at some point created a profile on an online dating site. The intent was primarily to see if I was still attractive to other women, no other intentions, I swear, I just needed a little ego boost. I met one lady from that site for dinner once, but only because she was in a similar situation, being separated from her husband etc. It was just a casual dinner, nothing fancy, nobody got dressed up and some nice conversation. Never met her again. Please keep in mind, I have no family here and nobody else to talk to.
My wife apparently had been going thru my browsing history and found out about this. This created a major crisis, because for one an online profile does look bad and also my wife to this day seems convinced that I cheated on her. We somehow worked thru this, but it was hard.

In 2015 we decided to spice up our marriage and sex life and invited another male into our bedroom. Big mistake. They had incredibly passionate sex, probably partly due to him being a new guy and me being a 23 year old model. Afterwards she said some very hurtful things to me, like "Sex with him is just so much better" and she is "not sure if she still wants to have sex with me, because my performance and his just don't compare". After she realized how hurt I was, she stopped having sex with him to the best of my knowledge, and we worked on improving our sex life and skills.

Fast forward to yesterday. So during a quiet moment I asked her if we are ok again. While we have a good relationship otherwise, she said that she has forgiven but not forgotten and even if I told her now that I did not have an affair, she would not believe me. To this day, she said her family also believes I cheated on her.

Two things that struck me were, that obviously she still does not trust me, because it does not matter what I say in regards to my mistake. I have completely forgiven her mistakes and never brought them up again, ever.

The other thing that struck me was that obviously her whole family knows. My family lives overseas, so I have no support here. During the last three years I had always noticed that at family parties nobody really liked talking to me, but I thought I was imagining things. But now it all makes sense. Obviously I am quite disappointed, that she has basically made me radioactive in her family because of my slip-up, but nobody knows about the things she has done. I intentionally never told my family about any of this, because families always take sides. Initially she had told me that she had only sought advice from one of her aunts.

So the questions is: Will she ever trust me again? I trust her. When I asked her how our sex live is now she said it was fine. Not exactly a glowing endorsement, even though I am always trying and she seems to orgasm every time. Would she be happier with another man? I do not want to be someone she settles for because it is comfortable.
Divorce is not imminent, but in 3 years our kids will be in college and at that point I would like some clarity going forward.

There is naturally a lot more to this, but I tried to condense it as much as I could. Thank you so much for any opinion.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

You have allowed your wife to blame you for her foul behaviour. Don't forget she cheated first. 

Secondly you have only yourself to blame for bringing another man into your bedroom. I just don't get men that want to share their wife.

See a Divorce Lawyer and end your misery.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Offer to take a polygraph . You let your wife push you around and cheat on you. Why would she respect you? Who’s idea was it to get another man involved? Did I you watch?

Ge the books NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY and MARREID MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. Maybe you can get your mojo back. At this point though she’s just keeping you around for a paycheck.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Oh boy.

There's just NOTHING less attractive than a whiny, needy, desperate man whose furiously doing the "pick me" dance and clinging to his wife's skirt, begging her to love him. You've basically become this woman's own personal floor mat. Just....ugh.

She likely had something going on with gym boy back in 2013 and THAT'S when you should have manned up and taken* control *of the situation. Instead, you were too afraid to take care of business and were wishy-washy and passive and to this DAY you STILL have no idea what happened between them. What the hell are you so afraid of? 

And because you were too afraid to take care of business, you did the passive/aggressive thing instead and made a dating profile. But unlike you, when your wife found your dating profile, she was NOT afraid to take charge of the situation and shake YOU down when she found out about it. That's the difference between you two. She's not afraid to take care of business because sadly, she knows *she's* in charge.

Then you foolishly bring another man into the bedroom. Either you're a cuckold (my suspicion) or into hot-wifing, not sure which. But when you* already* look like a wishy-washy coward to your wife, about the LAST thing you should be doing is glaringly pointing that fact OUT to her by bringing a masculine man into your bedroom who took care of business and made you look even worse than you already do to her.

Lastly, do you honestly think your *biggest *problem is getting her to trust you again??????? That's not nearly your biggest issue. Your main problem is that you won't stand up and take control, so to compensate for that, you continually kiss this woman's ass in an attempt to win her favor in other ways. And it blew up in your face big time when the stallion you brought into your bedroom took charge of the situation (which your wife no doubt found attractive) and I'm willing to bet it was less of a 'threesome' and more you sitting in the background watching and fetching them water when they asked for it. Hell, were you even in the room?

Your wife lost respect for you a long, long time ago. And she's just using your dating profile as an excuse to screw you over and do whatever the hell she wants, whenever she wants. And she knows you'll whine a lot less if she uses your dating profile to justify whatever it is she's doing. That's so obvious it isn't even funny.



> I do not want to be someone she settles for because it is comfortable.


That's exactly what you are and probably have been for many, many years. But if she depends on you financially, it's not likely she's going anywhere soon. I guess it's up to you to decide if that's worth staying or not.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

I say she's blameshifting. She knows she is inclined to and capable of cheating and so believes you are as well. As long as she is untrustworthy, you will be too -- at least in her eyes.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

sgdgolf, She'sStillGotIt has already said everything you need to hear. Even though my views and perceptions have changed over the past year in what I had to go through in my own situation with my 18 year relationship, the cheating, the betrayal and the eventual divorce .... I still tend to lean on the side of reconciliation when both parties go all in on the marriage with re-commitment. 

Having said that, I did eventually read your entire post but I stopped at and almost moved on from this page after I read the paragraph starting "In 2015 we decided to spice up our marriage". First of all, WTF were thinking and second of all, her reaction and to response to all of that including her putting the blame on you for all of this, TELLS you everything you need to know. All of the other details just back up the rest of the narrative. 

To put it simply, she is not a very good person and you have and are making horrible decisions. Please get yourself into counseling and then start figuring out what an amicable divorce looks like. The problem is, with the picture you have painted of her. Once you do have enough of being treated like this and living like this, she is going to try and tear your head off because that's the type of person she is and she knows you fear her. Please see a counselor sir!


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Absolutely incredible! I will NEVER understand how allowing another man to "have" your wife while you're right there watching the performance could ever achieve anything but heartache, mind movies, and regret.


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## sgdgolf (Sep 11, 2018)

Thank you so much for all the responses.

I just wanted to clear up a few things. First of all, in 2015, it was both our decision to include other people in the bedroom. We also tried with another couple, but had to stop before things got really going, because she was too jealous seeing me with another woman. I was also the first and only one she had ever been with up to that point.
I would have been fine with everything that happened, but her comments afterwards shocked the hell out of me.

She is actually a good person and my intention was not to make her look all bad, because I share the blame here. We have always been best friends and have a very good marriage otherwise. She told me that there was nothing romantic going on with the first guy and they were really just going to Yoga together. That guy was also married. Quite frankly I believe her but what hurt more was that she lied about it and that she spent time with him even if they were just friends.

At that time in 2013 we were also in a difficult financial spot because of the recession and I was so disappointed that she was having fun while I am working 14 hours per day trying to save our house (we are self-employed). We have recovered financially by now and are actually leading a worry free life.

Yes, she is basically financially dependent on me. I earn 95% of our income. We also have two children who will be in college in 3 years. I could never separate before that because I do not want to break my kids' hearts. Some people in her family and her parents are not poor either, so it is not like she would be on the street if I am not in the picture.

However, up to this day, I am constantly trying to avoid surfing web sites that could be interpreted wrong. Double check every app I am downloading for fear she might find something incriminating. I am writing all this in incognito mode, because I am sure she still checks my browsing history.
We are best friends and very loving with each other, but it seems she just has not gotten over things. She is otherwise a very loving mother and a good person and in 23 years we have only fought 3 or 4 times, so I am a little hesitant to throw that all away if there is a way to reconcile.

The one thing that puzzles me is that instead of Yoga, now she regularly meets up with 1 or 2 older men who live a few streets down, who she walks our dogs with, because they have dogs too. Now, these are guys 20 years older than her and married, so I doubt there is any interest on her part, but I find it curious that she never befriends other women. But again, I am nitpicking here and being a little paranoid myself, but given what happened with her Yoga buddy, I am shaking my head a little.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Your wife is a cake eater and she has thrown you under a bus with her family. I’m also amazed that any man would let another man **** his wife but you look even weaker in her eyes because she got some strange but you didn’t.
Her family think you’re a cheat and she doesn’t seem to care. Don’t be surprised if she beats you to the punch regarding divorce and under no circumstances do you leave your home,she will have you for abandonment. 
You say she is 95% financially supported by you so don’t mention divorce yourself until the last of your kids have left home.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

sgdgolf said:


> Thank you so much for all the responses.
> 
> I just wanted to clear up a few things. First of all, in 2015, it was both our decision to include other people in the bedroom. We also tried with another couple, but had to stop before things got really going, because she was too jealous seeing me with another woman. I was also the first and only one she had ever been with up to that point.
> 
> ...


This is the famous and prevalent 'back track post' that many of us see and have posted in our times of crisis. It's when you don't like what you hear or see from the responses and you have to clarify, it seems reasonable in your head and we just misunderstood the situation, right? No, sorry man, we know the situation because, sadly, we have either seen situations just like it or often, have lived it. Your wife may have been a 'good' person at one point and still could be a good mother but the both of you let that train head out of town over the last 5-7 years (parenting excluded). 

The way you tried to clarify giving up your wife to another man makes none of it any better. From what I understood, most incredibly stable and happy marriages don't even survive those types of situations, let alonr one where there is already trust and betrayal issues. 

This marriage is toast and you are set to live out your remaining years in fear, misery and wallowing through it all. 

The ONLY thing that could save this, is a miracle and what that would look like is you going to some sort of retreat with your wife, you lay it ALL on the line and pledge your lives to each other, no ifs, ands or buts about it and then go from there but I don't see that happening. Right now you are sort of a pain in the neck to your wife, something she lives with for now but as it's already been mentioned, don't be surprised when you think you are doing the right thing by giving it your all, giving her forgiveness, only for her to increase the disdain she has for you and pull the plug as soon as she has a plan fully executed to where it looks like a normal divorce or one where you are at fault.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read the book No More Mr Nice Guy? I suspect it would open your eyes a bit.


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## sgdgolf (Sep 11, 2018)

I understand all of your points, but what makes me hesitant is that during the last 3 years we have had a really good and harmonious marriage. No fights, sex has been fine and we both have been working on brushing up on our bedroom skills over the last few years, so I do see some progress. You are also hearing the story from my side and I am sure my wife would tell the story a bit different, even though I tried to be as impartial as possible and only reported facts.

I was just surprised when I asked her about how we are doing that she still does not trust me. She can check my phone and computer anytime, I have no passwords that she does not know and we both have GPS tracking software on our phones, so we both can always check where the other one is or has been. 
I also do not think she would ever have a sexual relationship with another man behind my back. She is just not that type of person. She apologized back then for the remarks she made and was truly sorry.

The one thing I have decided is that I will not attend any more family parties, because I just end up sitting somewhere in the corner browsing my phone. It does bother me that everyone seems to see me as a cheater, but I would not know what to do about that.
Other than that, does everyone here think that divorce is the only viable option? I am not afraid to go there, but I also do not want to regret something later on.
I will definitely check out the "No more Mr. nice guy" book, it looks intriguing, but please understand, I am a successful man professionally and otherwise and what most would consider an alpha male in regular life. I do not easily get pushed around and I do love my wife.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Your wife doesn't trust you because of her own behavior. This is common with all cheaters. Men 20 years older will cheat too. That’s happened here more times than be counted.

You simply don’t understand women. Get the MMSLP book and the NMMNG book. 

She cheat later, probably is cheating and even if she is not, you really should not want her to trust you. 

Be frank with her, tell her you’re not going to her folks place because she has poisoned the well for you. 

If she tells you again she doesn’t trust you tell her you haven’t trusted her since the first time she cheated. If she refuses to admit cheating, just say fine we can both do polygraphs and MEAN IT. Otherwise you’re just wussing out again.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Get your testosterone count above 10 and then start posting.

I personally would tie her up in the bedroom, take another woman for hours in front of her while occasionally spanking her.

But, I would have never let things progress to the point you have either.

You are wimpy and can't perceive just what a nasty piece of work you married.

Your marriage is a one way street with your wife's name on it.

Enjoy being a doormat.


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## SGr (Mar 19, 2015)

sgdgolf said:


> Divorce is not imminent, but in 3 years our kids will be in college and at that point I would like some clarity going forward.


Um. You're going to need some clarity A LOT sooner than in 3 years! 

Sent from my BLA-A09 using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Wow, you make excuse after excuse after excuse for what she has done. You are blind, even to your OWN behavior! Newsflash... YOU CHEATED ON HER by going on a date with another woman! Your wife cheated on you with the yoga dude, then disrespected you and your marriage by telling you sex was better with the other guy you ALLOWED her to be with. She probably had sex with him other times you know nothing about, too. Now she is hanging out with TWO OTHER MEN?? Dude what is WRONG with you, wake up!! Your wife is a cheater, and its time you face that fact and stop living in denial.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Probably best to not spend much time in this thread, folks.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I don't think you know your wife. "She's not that kind of person". Um, yes she is. She showed it to you by thoroughly enjoying sex with another dude in front of you and then telling you how much better he was. 

She owns you.

You have three choices, kids timing be damned.

1) continue being her doormat, keep apologizing for all your actions and being unattractive to your wife (trust me, you are not attractive to her right now)

2) start taking a stand for yourself, and get back some semblance of dignity....and become more attractive to your wife.

3) just divorce now


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sgdgolf said:


> I will definitely check out the "No more Mr. nice guy" book, it looks intriguing, but please understand, I am a successful man professionally and otherwise and what most would consider an alpha male in regular life. I do not easily get pushed around and I do love my wife.


I think you will be surprised by what you read. And first, please understand 'alpha male' does not mean chest-thumping bull in china shop. A real alpha male knows his worth and never needs to raise his voice, let alone a fist. A real alpha man DOES love his wife but also loves himself more.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> Probably best to not spend much time in this thread, folks.


Yeah, you're probably right Gus.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Am I over reacting?

Yes, you are ‘over’ acting.

You’ over, looking down.
She under another man.
She, her head over heels.
She getting even.

No, she never got under her Yoga partner.
No, she never forgave you for you getting over on her with your O.L.D..

She agreed to swinging but with her swinging, leaving you dangling.
She getting the meat, yours never meeting another fur pie.
She telling you it was good, she getting even, you getting the chill.

It was all about her getting even for your purported cheating.

Her side of the scale would never balance out without the revenged PIV.

You got yours, she got hers.

The thing is……

You got none, got nothing, no relief, just the chill.

Just the memory. 
The memory of misguided accusations, of misplaced trust.

She getting over with two men. 

Yoga man as friendly companion, swinger man as consummated revenge.
You too, getting under two men, soon maybe two more.

Using Kings English:

No, I do not think her and Yoga Man had sex.

Yes, I think she honestly thought you had scored with your online dating.

Even if she was not sure, she was rightly sure of your intentions. 
That you wanted to find a women to plant your manhood in…. some new her.

The reason she agreed to swinging was to poop-test you.
To see if you would actually penetrate another woman.
Once she was convinced you ‘were’ capable and willing, she got angry and she balked on your getting any that night..

Now she was convinced that you were capable, likely culpable, you actually did got ‘some’ online. 

Yes, she did let another man penetrate her.

And yes, she rubbed her fun in your face. 

She did not do it for fun or sex, she did it to cut you deep.
She told you he was so good and you are such a poor lover. 
This is evident. She wanted revenge, she wanted to hurt you.

Had she actually had sex or improper relations with Yoga Man, she would not have gotten so angry, so hurt, so revengeful.

Her discourse following her intercourse with swinger man proved this to me. She wanted to hurt you, to get even with you. 

That was her main intention.

On these two older men, they and she walking their dogs.
What could start out as dog walking could lead to [hot dogs] popping out of senior zippers.

She likes, prefers male company. She has allowed herself to be ‘had’ once. 
Had for revenge.

Once ‘had’, the next ‘giving’ goes easier. 
The next ‘had’ given for pleasure.

This is not a surety, it is a sure risk.


King Brian-


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Your wife was have a physical affair with Yoga man. You rug shifted and that made her lose further respect for you. Then you allow your wife to use the coffee date with a stranger to brow beat you. The reason she doesn't believe you is because she's a serial cheater. We're talking pure projection on her part.

As for bringing another person into your bed, that is always a bad move. If you were to look at the number of threads of men who tried that and get burned you'd be surprised. I'd bet it was her idea too.
A woman wants to be treasured. In her inner hamster mind, she knows that you letting another man have her, means she's doesn't mean much to you. 

She was to jealous to allow you to get some while she was getting her fill? What a croc. This woman has detached from you since yoga man. I would bet money there have been other men, including the dude you served her up to having repeat performances behind your back.

As for the older guys walking their dogs being safe, you have another thing coming. Woman are attracted to older confident men who have their **** together. To these men, your wife being 20 years younger, looks like a goddess. Now tell yourself, how a detached wife with a weak husband at home is going to react to older men who will thirst for her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. You're about as alpha as Mr. Bill...


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Probably best to not spend much time in this thread, folks.


Bridge dweller you think?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Andy1001 said:


> Bridge dweller you think?


That or he’s so hopelessly lost that he’s not going to do anything meaningful in terms of removing himself from the fount of **** that is his marriage.

Some people, whether they ever realize it or not, really are little more than cautionary tales for the rest of us.


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

Why doesn't your wife smooth things over with her family with you? Why doesn't she be fair and show both sides? Do not a man and woman leave their families and clove to each other when they get married?

Why don't you know what happened about the yoga man? Is it because it will make your wife angry and freeze yout out?

A married guy drove around your wife's car to go to yoga and shopping three days a week, and you know very little about it. It was a secret. And you think that wasn't cheating?

Also, you don't understand the two old dudes who are trying to bone her now?

Why do you not understand basic things with your wife and her relationships? Why she doesn't have women friends, only guys?

When you have sex and are being "harmonious," do you ever ask questions you are curious about?

I'm sorry, I think you are in denial. I think you know little about cheating and how it works, and the red flags.

Your phone and computer are transparent - is your wife's too?

She told you very hurtful things about sex, but has never apologized and never tried to make you feel better about it. The best you get is "sex is fine." Wow, so antiseptic. It makes me grimace thinking about having sex and it being "fine."

What part of the above is "love."

I agree with chapparal, I think, who said offer a polygraph for her, and ask her to do the same for you.

By the way, I don't believe your story about not cheating, either. You wanted to see if women would want you? So you actually met and had nice conversation for lunch with a woman. I'm smiling even writing this, starting to chuckle. That's some balls giving an excuse like that.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I'm hoping OP does come back. It's a jarring experience when we TAMers blow right through the smoke to the nitty gritty. They usually start with the excuse making for their wife. But many come back when they do a deeper dive. 

I'm thinking about the recent thread with guy that was concerned about his wife having an EA then it turned out that his twin kids actually were sired by his WW's former FWB.

So I hope you continue to read. You need to dig deep. I have no doubt in my mind that your WW has had multiple encounters with different guys over the years.


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## sgdgolf (Sep 11, 2018)

Hi all:

Don't worry, I am not going anywhere. It is very insightful hearing all the different perspectives. I am going back and forth between "yeah, you got a point here" and "man you harbor a lot of anger". Obviously, you guys have had a lot more experience in this regard, however, it is curious that most people commenting seem to be males. A woman's perspective would be interesting too.

Please don't get me wrong, I am old enough to know that life is full of surprises and disappointments, but I am also the kind of guy who likes to think about things and act rationally instead of giving in to anger. After all, I am also responsible for two wonderful children, who have absolutely nothing to do with this and for whom I would give my life.


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## sgdgolf (Sep 11, 2018)

My next question would be, is there any way to find out if she truly loves me or is just using me? What exactly should she do in order to smooth things over with her family?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sgdgolf said:


> My next question would be, is there any way to find out if she truly loves me or is just using me? What exactly should she do in order to smooth things over with her family?


sgd, here's the rub. 

When a man cheats, it's almost always cos he wants MORE SEX.

When a woman cheats, it's almost always cos she wants A MAN TO LOVE HER.

Now, 'a man to love her' is a VERY complicated thing. We can help with that. 

That said, IF your wife is cheating on you, the 'time' issue becomes very very important. Look up '**** tests.' It goes back to caveman days. Women NEED a strong man. And psychologically, that becomes a VERY complicated issue.

No matter what, we really need to know if she is cheating.


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## sgdgolf (Sep 11, 2018)

turnera said:


> sgd, here's the rub.
> 
> 
> No matter what, we really need to know if she is cheating.


Well, unless she is technologically much savvier than me, I have a hard time seeing how she could have cheated in the last 3 years. I did check her phone, messages, browsing history, calls made/received, emails a while back. As far as I could see there was nothing suspicious. And we do have GPS trackers on both our phones, nothing there either.
Am I missing something that I did not check?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

my fear is your wife has done a hell of a number on you, she has painted you in a corner where no matter what your move you look like the bad guy...frankly the one move you have not tried is to read her the riot act by telling her that you have had enough of her gaslighting and crap and the blame shifting and that you are ready to walk if she does not stop this crap once and for all and accept the blame in all of this.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sgdgolf said:


> Well, unless she is technologically much savvier than me, I have a hard time seeing how she could have cheated in the last 3 years. I did check her phone, messages, browsing history, calls made/received, emails a while back. As far as I could see there was nothing suspicious. And we do have GPS trackers on both our phones, nothing there either.
> Am I missing something that I did not check?


Seriously?

Nearly every cheating woman who's come here has said that her CHEATING PARTNER has taught her how to hide everything.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

turnera said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Nearly every cheating woman who's come here has said that her CHEATING PARTNER has taught her how to hide everything.


 ^Yup^, and a burner phone is all it takes to get past what you so diligently checked.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Here's something you need to listen to. When a woman tells a man "Sex with him is just so much better" and she is "not sure if I still want to have sex with you, because my performance and his just don't compare", it means she has no respect for you (notwithstanding her trashing you to her family). Sex with him, or anybody else she respect, is going to be so much better. If your chick wanted to be with a puzzy she'd be playing for the other team. The kind of message you need to send to her is leaving your harpy azz is in the cards. 
BTW, you know you got roped into that MMF threeway. Real men who have threeways have FMF threeways. Of course real men don't need threeways. And my take is she wasn't through banging her bull after you experiment with wife sharing. You likely shared her with the bull several times.


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## Dawghoused (Mar 24, 2018)

It seems after seeing your online dating profile she get a chance to cheat on you without any fear. You should talk to her about your situation and try to sort out the things. You trust her but she doesn't trust you.


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## scaredlion (Mar 4, 2017)

When she says she don't trust you and doesn't believe you did not have an affair, why haven't you answered with, "Well I still don't believe you didn't have an affair back in 2013 when you were going out with that man." You have just as much reason to not trust her as she has to not trust you.

Next. I would never willingly share my wife with another man but since you did bring another man into your sex life, and she was so happy, then why didn't you demand to have another woman brought in to make you so happy? To see if sex with another woman is better than with her. Just from what I've read I see you as a doormat who jumps when she pulls the strings. And you have accepted that as getting along good with her. Whose ideal was bringing in another man?

Third, tell her how you feel about how her family treats you and ask if she has told them about your once being on a dating site and having gone to dinner with one of the women. Tell her if she has told them then you need to also tell them about her man from 2013 and lying to you about it. See what she thinks about that. She is playing the "don't do as I do, do as I say do" game.

I heard a line in a movie once that made absolute sense. "You accept the love you think you deserve." I have to say you don't think you deserve very much.

It's time for you to have a very serious talk with your wife and let out some of the hurt, resentment, and confusion you have bottled up. It appears you are afraid to truly find out where you stand in your marriage. 


Please forgive me if I have offended you but this is the way you sound to me. I do wish you well.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Each of you got what you deserve, deserved.

I do not think she is presently unfaithful.
She was unfaithful, so were you.

Let this situation go and use it as a learning lesson.
Provided all else is now good in your relationship.

For example:

You enjoy each others company.
You have regular love making sessions.

Both try to please the other in the bedroom.
Both are compatible in most things.

As far as trust?
Both have lost that.
Trust will never return.

Both scrutinize the other. 
Oh, yes she watches you, too.

Keep watching her. Do not pester her.
Limit and observe her time with 'any' male.

You can stop observing her when she reaches 90 yrs.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

sgdgolf said:


> Well, unless she is technologically much savvier than me, I have a hard time seeing how she could have cheated in the last 3 years. I did check her phone, messages, browsing history, calls made/received, emails a while back. As far as I could see there was nothing suspicious. And we do have GPS trackers on both our phones, nothing there either.
> Am I missing something that I did not check?


How do you know what she is doing when she walks the dog?

Check her underwear drawer to see if there are things there she doesn’t wear for you.

Could someone be visiting your home?

Burner phone.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

sgdgolf said:


> no other intentions, I swear
> 
> I met one lady from that site for dinner once


These two statements don't align. The second one tells me the first one is horse sh*t.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you checked her car for another phone? Have you gone through her drawers?


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

First, she cheats on you, at minimum an emotional affair, with another man.

Then you create a profile on a dating site and cheat on her by having a date with another woman. (it was a date and that is cheating).

Next, you guys decide to bring another man into the bedroom with you.


Jeez, my man, your marital history is fraught with HORRIBLE decision making. Work on that first and everything else should take care of itself.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

sgdgolf said:


> You are also hearing the story from my side and I am sure my wife would tell the story a bit different


This brings up a great opportunity. One technique that therapists use, and I love, to encourage empathy is to tell that story from their perspective. Like role playing. Put yourself in her shoes and tell us this same story only tell it as if you are her. I'd love to read it. Don't interject yourself into the story, this is all her. Tell us this story as her.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> Here's something you need to listen to. When a woman tells a man "Sex with him is just so much better" and she is "not sure if I still want to have sex with you, because my performance and his just don't compare", it means she has no respect for you (notwithstanding her trashing you to her family). Sex with him, or anybody else she respect, is going to be so much better. If your chick wanted to be with a puzzy she'd be playing for the other team. The kind of message you need to send to her is leaving your harpy azz is in the cards.
> BTW, you know you got roped into that MMF threeway. Real men who have threeways have FMF threeways. Of course real men don't need threeways. And my take is she wasn't through banging her bull after you experiment with wife sharing. *You likely shared her with the bull several times.*


I don't thinks so. 

Yes, she went places with Yoga Man.
This is cheating, straight away.

No, I just don't think they had sex. 
Any man that does Yoga sounds wimpy, likely is passive. 
Him, taking her shopping, again, sounds wimpy.
Just a gut feeling.

Now, YM likely wanted to get in her pants, that is why he persisted.
OP's wife likes having male friends. She may have entertained sex with him at one point but likely friend zoned him.
Again, just a gut feeling.

OP's wife is male oriented. She walked a tight line. Continues to.
Had she met a real player, one who was refreshing and good looking, well, yes she could have succumb.

This is all water under the bridge. She has now been penetrated.

Her defenses have been breached. She took a shot to the bow, uh, to the lower deck.

Swinger man torpedoed her and your marriage. You facilitated this.
You allowed your wife to be target practice for him.

Let it all go,

Start from scratch or divorce her.

She was bad, you were horrible.


Just Sayin'



King Brian-


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

turnera said:


> Have you checked her car for another phone? Have you gone through her drawers?


Yes, check her wooden dresser drawers.

And her cloth drawers and her Sundays finest silk ones! :|:crying:

.........................................................................................

Check all closets, in all hanging garments, in the pockets, under furniture, in nooks and crannies in the basement and garage, in her car, under seats, in the trunk.

The key here....she must charge it up. At some point it needs charging, likely regularly. 
Look for a strange charger. One readily available. 

I forgot, does she work?

.........................................................................

Humor aside, I do not think she is cheating.
She could always start doing it again.
She is now more capable.

One's attitude changes when you made that first slip up.
In her case.....slip in. Into. :surprise:

Dunno..


KB-


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

sgdgolf said:


> I just wanted to clear up a few things. First of all, in 2015, it was both our decision to include other people in the bedroom. We also tried with another couple, but had to stop before things got really going, because she was too jealous seeing me with another woman. I was also the first and only one she had ever been with up to that point.


Gosh, your legs must be tired from all that back-peddling you're doing. She's your typical selfish cheater is what she is. No mystery here at all. She doesn't want anyone ELSE to play with her toys (you) but she's happy as hell to bang other guys. That's pretty much how ALL cheaters operate - they can break the rules but YOU'D better not do it. While you're busy feeling oh so loved and flattered by HER selfishness and insecurities in not wanting YOU to have sex with others, she's having the time of her life having sex with other men - sometimes, while *you *watch. Yup, the woman's a Saint, by golly.

You're going to continue keeping your head buried in the sand because it feels so nice and warm around your ears, aren't you?

And now, you're claiming nothing happened with she and Yoga Boy. You believe your wife's obvious bull**** story that because they were both married *that* means he and your wife were following the rules and respecting each other's marital status. Well how *silly *of us to assume it was anything *but *100% innocent just because she had a habit of lying to you about all the time she was spending with him. 

Hey - when I'm done typing this post, I'd like to talk to you about oceanfront property in Nevada I'm hoping to sell. <insert gigantic eye-roll gif here>



> At that time in 2013 we were also in a difficult financial spot because of the recession and I was so disappointed that she was having fun while I am working 14 hours per day trying to save our house (we are self-employed).


She was having 'fun,' alright.

And it's obvious she's financially dependent on you. I already called that in my last post. THAT was obvious. You're supposed to financially support her and be happy for her when she finds better sex with someone else - but you're supposed to be 100% loyal to HER. See how that works?



> However, up to this day, I am constantly trying to avoid surfing web sites that could be interpreted wrong. Double check every app I am downloading for fear she might find something incriminating. I am writing all this in incognito mode, because I am sure she still checks my browsing history.
> 
> We are best friends and very loving with each other, but it seems she just has not gotten over things. She is otherwise a very loving mother and a good person and in 23 years we have only fought 3 or 4 times, so I am a little hesitant to throw that all away if there is a way to reconcile.


So I guess your plan is to continue kissing her ass, being her personal welcome mat, and showing her you're a true sycophant. Got it. Even though she clearly had an affair with Yoga Boy (keep that head buried in the sand!) and even though she didn't want to stop having sex with the stallion you brought home a few years ago - and she TOLD you how you simply *can't compare* to him and that he's the best sex she's ever had, and she reluctantly stopped having sex with monkey boy *only* because you were whining so much about it.

Yeah, *that's* some "saint" and good marriage you've got there. :crazy:



> The one thing that puzzles me is that instead of Yoga, now she regularly meets up with 1 or 2 older men who live a few streets down, who she walks our dogs with, because they have dogs too. Now, these are guys 20 years older than her and married, so I doubt there is any interest on her part, but I find it curious that she never befriends other women. But again, I am nitpicking here and being a little paranoid myself, but given what happened with her Yoga buddy, I am shaking my head a little.


Even though I'm beginning to suspect there's a whole lot of leg-pulling going on in this thread, I'll take the 'bait' and predict she's pulling the train with all the older married dog-walkers in the neighborhood. 

As usual, Vlad hit the nail right on the head. She lost her respect for you a long, long time ago. However, that doesn't mean that she wants to give up her meal ticket. Pffft.


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## sgdgolf (Sep 11, 2018)

Thank you so much for the responses. I have searched high and low, but have not found any evidence of her currently cheating. Even her GPS data checks out fine and she always answers her phone when I contact her. Quite frankly, it does not feel right going thru her stuff, but I understand the purpose. I am just a person who is uncomfortable snooping around. Btw, none of this is made up. No reason for me to lie, I am just seeking opinions and advice from others.

We have not gotten counseling yet. I told her yesterday that I would not be attending anymore family events on her side of the family, because I am just not comfortable with everyone knowing and seeing me as the bad guy. While I admit that I did something terribly wrong, I also think that my wife is at least equally to blame. However, everyone just knows her side of the story, and in my experience it is only natural for families to support their own anyways. 

Naturally, this announcement made her quite upset, which I expected, but she also understands that it was her who told everyone. However, at the moment she has no idea to to fix the issue with her family and I certainly do not want to give her my opinion about that, because it is her family and her mistake to tell them. Ultimately, if she asked me sincerely, I would probably attend family gatherings just for her sake, because I love her, but my preference would still be for her to work something out that gives me at least a bit of dignity back.

I also asked her to search her feelings about why she still does not believe me. She then said that she believes me now, but to me it just kind of sounded like a save of face, because it is a complete reversal from what she told me a few days ago, when she still thought everything was fine. In a way I regret a little bringing it up, because we both seemed to be doing fine, but it was just a shock for me to learn that everyone knew and I would really like to work thru all feelings so nothing is lingering and coming back to haunt us in the future.

Regardless, I love her very much and she told me that she loves me and we both seem to want to work on our relationship, because there is just too much good to throw it all away. But I also want her to work thru those feelings of mistrust, so we can both go back to a healthy relationship, were neither has to look over their shoulder constantly.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

VladDracul said:


> Here's something you need to listen to. When a woman tells a man "Sex with him is just so much better" and she is "not sure if I still want to have sex with you, because my performance and his just don't compare", it means she has no respect for you (notwithstanding her trashing you to her family). Sex with him, or anybody else she respect, is going to be so much better.


THIS! This was your cue to exit stage right and not look back. You have ZERO self respect for sticking around after this.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

I am confused whether this is something that happened a few years ago and you two are slowly moving on from or if this is just an open sore that just keeps festering? My only advise is you can't fix this by yourself, this has to be a joint effort or it is a waste of time. When you talk, do beat around the bush, just come out and say what you mean. Also, you need to get your mojo back and realize you have self worth, even if she does not appreciate it personally. A man that grovels for a woman's attention could not chase her away faster if he chased her down the street with a stick.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

@sgdgolf i need to ask a clarification question...when you said you brought that gentleman into your bed...did she see that gentleman outside the bed room? 
Also was there talk about bring in a woman as well?


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I know how to fix the issue with her family, she comes clean about her affair, and her having another guy in your bed. Tell her that you will now go with her, but she has to tell each and every one of them, then say you are getting a polygraph and it will prove you never had any sexual contact. She is the goddamned bad guy, but made you out to be a cheater. If she does not tell, then say each of her relatives will be getting a letter.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

VermiciousKnid said:


> First, she cheats on you, at minimum an emotional affair, with another man.
> 
> Then you create a profile on a dating site and cheat on her by having a date with another woman. (it was a date and that is cheating).
> 
> ...


THIS
In case some people missed huge parts of this story


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## sgdgolf (Sep 11, 2018)

Lostinthought61 said:


> @sgdgolf i need to ask a clarification question...when you said you brought that gentleman into your bed...did she see that gentleman outside the bed room?
> Also was there talk about bring in a woman as well?


No, we only met the guy twice at a hotel, never outside of that.
We had also set up a date with another couple, but that did not go any further than kissing, because she could not handle seeing me with another woman.
Never discussed meeting with just a woman after that because it seemed pointless.


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## sgdgolf (Sep 11, 2018)

Taxman said:


> I know how to fix the issue with her family, she comes clean about her affair, and her having another guy in your bed. Tell her that you will now go with her, but she has to tell each and every one of them, then say you are getting a polygraph and it will prove you never had any sexual contact. She is the goddamned bad guy, but made you out to be a cheater. If she does not tell, then say each of her relatives will be getting a letter.


My idea is actually that she could send an email to everyone explaining how we both share the blame and her behavior has not been any better and that it would be wrong to just hold this against me. I don't see the point in getting into details. Her family is very catholic, and if she were to mention our swinging activities, we could both just move out of the country as well. Something along those lines. We will see if she comes up with something like that or if she will just accept me being absent from parties. The first option would definitely be the more mature way to deal with this.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

sgdgolf said:


> * Quite frankly, it does not feel right going thru her stuff,* but I understand the purpose. I am just a person who is uncomfortable snooping around.
> 
> However, at the moment she has no idea to to fix the issue with her family and I certainly do not want to give her my opinion about that, because it is her family and her mistake to tell them. *Ultimately, if she asked me sincerely, I would probably attend family gatherings just for her sake, because I love her,* but my preference would still be for her to work something out that gives me at least a bit of dignity back.
> * In a way I regret a little bringing it up*, because we both seemed to be doing fine, but it was just a shock for me to learn that everyone knew and I would really like to work thru all feelings so nothing is lingering and coming back to haunt us in the future.
> ...


 There are jellyfish floating around in the ocean with more spine than you have. You are about to repeat the cycle, and you will do it again and again until you actually stand up for yourself and stop being a doormat. she will be better at covering her tracks each time, and you will be either completely clueless with your head in the sand or you will drive yourself insane with suspicion and resentment.


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## sgdgolf (Sep 11, 2018)

Rubix Cubed said:


> There are jellyfish floating around in the ocean with more spine than you have. You are about to repeat the cycle, and you will do it again and again until you actually stand up for yourself and stop being a doormat. she will be better at covering her tracks each time, and you will be either completely clueless with your head in the sand or you will drive yourself insane with suspicion and resentment.


Ok, I have been asking for advice, but some of this is getting a bit out of hand. There are 2 kids involved here too, and if you are a heartless and selfish SOB then that is your problem. I for my part look at a wife with obvious flaws who has messed up twice in 27 years of being together and who is a wonderful Mom. I will always try to fix it first before deciding to throw it all away. At the very least then I can always tell myself that I tried and gave it my best instead of taking the easy way out and divorce without regard for 2 innocent and wonderful kids. This is what having a spine is all about.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

sgdgolf said:


> Ok, I have been asking for advice, but some of this is getting a bit out of hand. There are 2 kids involved here too, and if you are a heartless and selfish SOB then that is your problem. I for my part look at a wife with obvious flaws who has messed up twice in 27 years of being together and who is a wonderful Mom. I will always try to fix it first before deciding to throw it all away. At the very least then I can always tell myself that I tried and gave it my best instead of taking the easy way out and divorce without regard for 2 innocent and wonderful kids. This is what having a spine is all about.


 You can keep deluding yourself all you want, and I'm sorry if the truths I speak upset you,but "If my answers frighten you _Vincent_, you should cease asking scary questions". Staying in a marriage where your wife cheats on you twice and still gets to call all the shots while you kowtow to her is going to completely screw your poor children up in regards to dealing with future relationships and their character, far more than having 2 happy separated parents, of which hopefully you would be the good stable one. Sadly, using your children as an excuse is pathetically spineless but you're in good company. Plenty use that excuse to reconcile but very few actually can make it stick without driving themselves crazy with resentment or having their Wayward spouse continue their behavior. Good luck, I hope you are one of the very few.

E.t.a
So let me get this straight. All the folks here who divorced their lying, cheating, deceitful waywards even though they had kids, are spineless? Good to know.


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## sgdgolf (Sep 11, 2018)

Rubix Cubed said:


> You can keep deluding yourself all you want, and I'm sorry if the truths I speak upset you, but staying in a marriage where your wife cheats on you twice and still gets to call all the shots while you kowtow to her is going to completely screw your poor children up in regards to dealing with future relationships and their character, far more than having 2 happy separated parents, of which hopefully you would be the good stable one. Sadly, using your children as an excuse is pathetically spineless but you're in good company. Plenty use that excuse to reconcile but very few actually can make it stick without driving themselves crazy with resentment or having their Wayward spouse continue their behavior. Good luck, I hope you are one of the very few.
> 
> E.t.a
> So let me get this straight. All the folks here who divorced their lying, cheating, deceitful waywards even though they had kids, are spineless? Good to know.


Please let's not get into name calling and insults. I know that some opinions will differ from mine. That's why I asked for them. At the same time please keep it civil.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

From your posts it seems your wife replaced you in her heart with Yoga guy 5 years ago.

It looks like you have become exactly what you said you did not want to be in you first post - the guy she settled for because it is convenient.

You should prepare for her to walk as soon as the kids are settled.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I would still take her to the polygraph center, and there let her see that you NEVER stuck your penis in another woman. Therefore, you are blameless and she is the cheater. Watch her realize what she did. If that does not occur, then your best bet is to find another woman. AND-let her know that if her relatives ever talk to you, you will be telling the truth, and f your wife and the horse she rode in on. WHY do you have to be the bad guy, what, so every family function they can talk shytte behind your back? Let them know who the real culprit was. AND>>>>very catholic? They have confession. They have forgiveness? Too bad you aren't getting what is due to you sir. I would never put up with this. 

MY wife had this in her family, the wife was made out to be the criminal. Her husband, a cousin made certain that her name was blackened. Turned out, that he had multiple affairs, but he projected onto her. She found out that when she refused to accompany him to family dinners etc, that he had said that she had affairs, which she did not. Next family dinner, as everyone avoided her, she got up and said, I have my evidence, and if you all want to know the truth, here it is. "She proceeded to pass her cell phone around the table, everyone got to see her husband on top of his mistress. It was unmistakeable that it was a mistress, as she was of another race, and not his wife. He did not realize what was going on, until his mom screamed out. Turned out his family was also racist. He was asked to leave his parents' house. Everyone now knows the score.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

sgdgolf said:


> Please let's not get into name calling and insults. I know that some opinions will differ from mine. That's why I asked for them. At the same time please keep it civil.


 No worries. If a wake up call/2x4 just offends you and doesn't clue you in then this "heartless and selfless SOB" will spend his personal time on someone else who can actually benefit from it. Arrivederci'.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Taxman said:


> I know how to fix the issue with her family, she comes clean about her affair, and her having another guy in your bed. Tell her that you will now go with her, but she has to tell each and every one of them, then say you are getting a polygraph and it will prove you never had any sexual contact. She is the goddamned bad guy, but made you out to be a cheater. If she does not tell, then say each of her relatives will be getting a letter.


I agree. I was just going to say if she wants you back into the family events, she should take you to her family, all together, and tell them the truth -sanitized -of ALL the crap that's gone on in your marriage, so that they see you're not the source of all the issues. If she's not willing to do that, then you're not willing to do family stuff. Her choice.


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## sgdgolf (Sep 11, 2018)

turnera said:


> I agree. I was just going to say if she wants you back into the family events, she should take you to her family, all together, and tell them the truth -sanitized -of ALL the crap that's gone on in your marriage, so that they see you're not the source of all the issues. If she's not willing to do that, then you're not willing to do family stuff. Her choice.


Yeah, I was thinking along the lines of sending an email out to everyone, thanking them for their support and also setting the record straight. It is a rather large family, so seeing and talking to everyone is not really feasible. They do not need to know the details, but should know that we are both to blame and not just me.

So far she has not thought of that and I have not suggested it, because my feeling is that she messed this up and she should come up with a solution without my help. Yesterday she was in tears when we talked about the whole situation and renewed our commitment to each other. Mind you the last 3 years have been really good for both of us.
I am just surprised so far that she has not thought of sending an email yet. It seems such an easy thing to do in order to set the record straight. 
I think she was hoping last night that I would be willing to compromise somewhere and come to maybe important holidays.

Apart from that when we talked I got the impression that there is a little resentment, because she said she feels like she is never good enough, because she is just a housewife and I am a successful businessman. I told her that in my view her work and raising the children is at least as important as my work.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

sgdgolf said:


> Well, unless she is technologically much savvier than me, I have a hard time seeing how she could have cheated in the last 3 years. I did check her phone, messages, browsing history, calls made/received, emails a while back. As far as I could see there was nothing suspicious. And we do have GPS trackers on both our phones, nothing there either.
> Am I missing something that I did not check?


Don't be surprised if she has a burner phone.


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## sgdgolf (Sep 11, 2018)

Sports Fan said:


> Don't be surprised if she has a burner phone.


It is possible, but I have searched high and low and so far nothing.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

sgdgolf said:


> Yeah, I was thinking along the lines of sending an email out to everyone, thanking them for their support and also setting the record straight. It is a rather large family, so seeing and talking to everyone is not really feasible. They do not need to know the details, but should know that we are both to blame and not just me.
> 
> So far she has not thought of that and I have not suggested it, because my feeling is that she messed this up and she should come up with a solution without my help. .


She knows that she will have to set this right, but because it paints her as the bad guy, she will likely never move to fix things. Throwing you under the bus was a coping mechanism. Due to this, I can recommend that she be blindsided. Please compose the email, give excruciating details, and send it. Let her deal with the aftermath. She will not miraculously go, "My dear husband, I have wrecked your reputation to my family, and I will confess everything so that they will come to view you more positively." Her brain is saying, "If I confess, they'll know I am a liar, and will be mad at me, my husband is not related, and it saves my skin for them to dislike him."

Sure she will be inundated with calls. You could mitigate a touch by telling her that you have composed the email and are about to send it. But, be absolutely resolute in this, you must send the email, as she will never do so.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

You let another man have sex with her? Done. This is toast. Get a divorce. You've screwed this up so badly there is no point in even trying. There is no coming back from something like that. You can drag this out but two are done. Auf Wiedersehen.......Kaputt!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sgdgolf said:


> Yeah, I was thinking along the lines of sending an email out to everyone, thanking them for their support and also setting the record straight. It is a rather large family, so seeing and talking to everyone is not really feasible. They do not need to know the details, but should know that we are both to blame and not just me.
> 
> So far she has not thought of that and I have not suggested it, because my feeling is that she messed this up and she should come up with a solution without my help. Yesterday she was in tears when we talked about the whole situation and renewed our commitment to each other. Mind you the last 3 years have been really good for both of us.
> I am just surprised so far that she has not thought of sending an email yet. It seems such an easy thing to do in order to set the record straight.


You're here, seeking help. That shows an openness to learning and growing and an open mind. Most people never reach that level of enlightenment to think of seeking help, let alone do it. So to expect her to come up with 'fixes' is not realistic and, frankly, seems a bit to me to be setting her up for failure. I thought you were a team now - yet you're waiting for her to PROVE herself. Seems a little passive aggressive to me.

And yes, an email to an extended group may be ok but for the group of people with whom you interact on a daily basis, an in-person conversation is in order. Because emails always beget misinterpretation, assumptions, not being able to see the person's face when they say it, and rumors. Tell the close group in person, as a team, and then send the email to the rest. That way when those people call the closer group - and they will - the in-person group will be able to say 'yes, they came over and I really believe them.' That will at least partially stop the rumor mill.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

sgdgolf said:


> It is possible, but I have searched high and low and so far nothing.


If she has her own car check there first. Check the boot, where the spare tyre is kept, under the seat, etc. Then check her hand bags even the ones she is not using, and inner pockets of her coats. Don't forget a burner phone she will only access for lover boy and no one else. Hence why she would keep it in an awkward place cause she will only access it when alone.


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