# How to take the leap



## Midwestmel (10 d ago)

Married to DH 21 years, 2 children, both in college. I’ve been in “should I stay or should I go” mode for almost 3 years. I’ve spent my most of my marriage “walking on eggshells” with a person whose moods run the gamut -silent, overthinking mode to hanging all over me professing his love. My children have also suffered and none of us can trust what “mood” we will get or have to tiptoe around. Im tired of hearing-“what’s up with dad?” The mood swing/anxiety recently ruined a family vacation and it became even more clear that I’d trade all of this just to live alone in peace and only worry about myself and my grown children. Let me be clear about a few things-has never touched drugs, rarely drinks, has never hit me, incredible work ethic because he loves money and fears being broke-we are probably considered well off. I do not think he is a narcissist-just some childhood crappy parenting. Although he makes very good money, it’s inconsistent because he keeps changing jobs-has had 6 different jobs in 4 years-he’s not an easy co worker. “Shrewd” and “condescending” and “unkind to people at times”. I debate in my mind if he’s truly a good person or not because he goes to church and is that guy who will stop and help change your flat tire. I’ve spent my life being his puppet, go along to get along, sweep everything under the rug. I’m a terrible communicator because I’d rather eat dirt than have conflict with him. He told me during last fight if I left, he’d make it a nightmare for me. During last (ruined)vacation, I woke up in the middle of the night with a very clear vision on how to leave. It involved finding a 30 day rental in a high rise secured building where our only contact would be through a lawyer. It would need to be an abrupt exit because he’s smart and manipulative enough to convince me to stay. I’d offer to give up more than my share of our assets in order be able to keep the family home, which I can afford on my own. He’d have 30 days to move out. The thoughts were so vivid!! But now I’m we are back home to day to day living with work, pets, kids back to college, I’m back in comfortable mode again. I’m in my forties now and I’m so afraid to stay for the sake of what is easy So how does one know when the time has come? I’ve heard “you’ll just know” , you’ll have an “aha” moment.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Midwestmel said:


> Married to DH 21 years, 2 children, both in college. I’ve been in “should I stay or should I go” mode for almost 3 years. I’ve spent my most of my marriage “walking on eggshells” with a person whose moods run the gamut -silent, overthinking mode to hanging all over me professing his love. My children have also suffered and none of us can trust what “mood” we will get or have to tiptoe around. Im tired of hearing-“what’s up with dad?” The mood swing/anxiety recently ruined a family vacation and it became even more clear that I’d trade all of this just to live alone in peace and only worry about myself and my grown children. Let me be clear about a few things-has never touched drugs, rarely drinks, has never hit me, incredible work ethic because he loves money and fears being broke-we are probably considered well off. I do not think he is a narcissist-just some childhood crappy parenting. Although he makes very good money, it’s inconsistent because he keeps changing jobs-has had 6 different jobs in 4 years-he’s not an easy co worker. “Shrewd” and “condescending” and “unkind to people at times”. I debate in my mind if he’s truly a good person or not because he goes to church and is that guy who will stop and help change your flat tire. I’ve spent my life being his puppet, go along to get along, sweep everything under the rug. I’m a terrible communicator because I’d rather eat dirt than have conflict with him. He told me during last fight if I left, he’d make it a nightmare for me. During last (ruined)vacation, I woke up in the middle of the night with a very clear vision on how to leave. It involved finding a 30 day rental in a high rise secured building where our only contact would be through a lawyer. It would need to be an abrupt exit because he’s smart and manipulative enough to convince me to stay. I’d offer to give up more than my share of our assets in order be able to keep the family home, which I can afford on my own. He’d have 30 days to move out. The thoughts were so vivid!! But now I’m we are back home to day to day living with work, pets, kids back to college, I’m back in comfortable mode again. I’m in my forties now and I’m so afraid to stay for the sake of what is easy So how does one know when the time has come? I’ve heard “you’ll just know” , you’ll have an “aha” moment.





Midwestmel said:


> So how does one know when the time has come?


The same way you just did. Whether you believe it or not, you already know that the time has come. Now it's just a matter of actually pulling the cord off the plug. How do you pull the cord? by doing the proverbial "getting your ducks in a row". Start with a consultation with a family lawyer to get a sense of what you are legally entitled to. Then, start one by one putting in order the things that you need to do in order to divorce. Having achieved what you needed to accomplish before divorcing, such as economics, material things you want, communicating the news, and why, to whomever you would want to let know, to mentally/emotionally prepare yourself for when the final break comes and you are on your own.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Do you think that individual counselling for him and MC would help?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I read an article recently about a woman who killed her abusive husband when he attacked her. She’s claiming self-defense but for now she’s in jail — without bail — pending her trial. She spent over 20 years walking on eggshells as it slowly escalated from verbal abuse to physical abuse and now she could spend a long time in prison. She didn’t think it could happen to her but it did. Don’t let it happen to you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Just the fact he threatened to make it a nightmare for you to me is a lot of bile and disrespect, not something you should feel obligated to remain pledged to. If you believe he is beyond marriage counseling and unable to change, which honestly, most people find change nearly impossible, do what will make you happiest. Your kids are grown. That's a blessing. Both they and his employers have trouble coping with him, so that does tell me it's HIM.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

How old is your husband? Most people don't realize that men go through andropause (male menopause). Take a look at male supplement ads--fatigue, *mood swings*, less sex drive etc. Menopausal symptoms.

That is one possibility, another is psychological guilt or baggage he's responding to. Counseling and check on testosterone levels might be a good start.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

How did he ruin the holiday?

Are these new behaviours or consistent throughout the whole marriage?

Great worker and work ethic, helps people. These are how he could be measured externally but how is he at home? He’ll help when you’re sick for example? Or run off and change the tyre while you’ve been asking for a family day out? Everyone says he is a good guy, but what do you mean by the moods he has behind closed doors? Any anger or emotional neglect?


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Live with it Or get rid of it


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Midwestmel said:


> Married to DH 21 years, 2 children, both in college. I’ve been in “should I stay or should I go” mode for almost 3 years. I’ve spent my most of my marriage “walking on eggshells” with a person whose moods run the gamut -silent, overthinking mode to hanging all over me professing his love. My children have also suffered and none of us can trust what “mood” we will get or have to tiptoe around. Im tired of hearing-“what’s up with dad?” The mood swing/anxiety recently ruined a family vacation and it became even more clear that I’d trade all of this just to live alone in peace and only worry about myself and my grown children. Let me be clear about a few things-has never touched drugs, rarely drinks, has never hit me, incredible work ethic because he loves money and fears being broke-we are probably considered well off. I do not think he is a narcissist-just some childhood crappy parenting. Although he makes very good money, it’s inconsistent because he keeps changing jobs-has had 6 different jobs in 4 years-he’s not an easy co worker. “Shrewd” and “condescending” and “unkind to people at times”. I debate in my mind if he’s truly a good person or not because he goes to church and is that guy who will stop and help change your flat tire. I’ve spent my life being his puppet, go along to get along, sweep everything under the rug. I’m a terrible communicator because I’d rather eat dirt than have conflict with him. He told me during last fight if I left, he’d make it a nightmare for me. During last (ruined)vacation, I woke up in the middle of the night with a very clear vision on how to leave. It involved finding a 30 day rental in a high rise secured building where our only contact would be through a lawyer. It would need to be an abrupt exit because he’s smart and manipulative enough to convince me to stay. I’d offer to give up more than my share of our assets in order be able to keep the family home, which I can afford on my own. He’d have 30 days to move out. The thoughts were so vivid!! But now I’m we are back home to day to day living with work, pets, kids back to college, I’m back in comfortable mode again. I’m in my forties now and I’m so afraid to stay for the sake of what is easy So how does one know when the time has come? I’ve heard “you’ll just know” , you’ll have an “aha” moment.


Another guy about to get blind sided. You have been with the guy for 20 plus years, he's never been any different, but you now you're bailing? You know why he's the way he is, he has mental health issues and emotional trauma by your own admission.

If you've done your best to help him with this then I apologise, otherwise your as much to blame for this situation as he is. You have your own issues, terrible communicator, conflict adverse. 

What's really not cool about your behaviour is rather than being an adult, and dealing with the problem, you've spent the last 3 years living off his dime while you've been emotionally detaching from him ready to wreck his life. Oh he knows everything's not right in marriage town, and you wonder why he's anxious and moody. 

Your aha moment will come when you're sure your future lifestyle won't be impacted to dramatically


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Jamieboy said:


> Another guy about to get blind sided. You have been with the guy for 20 plus years, he's never been any different, but you now you're bailing? You know why he's the way he is, he has mental health issues and emotional trauma by your own admission.
> 
> If you've done your best to help him with this then I apologise, otherwise your as much to blame for this situation as he is. You have your own issues, terrible communicator, conflict adverse.
> 
> ...


That’s some heavy victim blaming. She’s apparently tried it all and at what point is it her responsibility to do the hard work of divorcing. He seemed incredibly unhappy and could have divorced her first. Too hard to act married, too hard to pull the plug too. 

Maybe this hits home for you given your past obsessions with that other women, yet refusal to invest in your own marriage, or pull the plug yourself.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Do you think that individual counselling for him and MC would help?


Wondered about that myself. She's already identified "childhood crappy parenting" as being the root issue. Appropriate therapy could really help. But if she's done, she's done.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> That’s some heavy victim blaming. She’s apparently tried it all and at what point is it her responsibility to do the hard work of divorcing. He seemed incredibly unhappy and could have divorced her first. Too hard to act married, too hard to pull the plug too.
> 
> Maybe this hits home for you given your past obsessions with that other women, yet refusal to invest in your own marriage, or pull the plug yourself.


Victim of what exactly, no abuse mentioned there, and how on gods good earth can you draw parallels to my situation? 

Also where is the evidence of apparently tried it all, or are you just inventing facts to fit your narrative 🤔


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Midwestmel said:


> Married to DH 21 years, 2 children, both in college. I’ve been in “should I stay or should I go” mode for almost 3 years. I’ve spent my most of my marriage “walking on eggshells” with a person whose moods run the gamut -silent, overthinking mode to hanging all over me professing his love. My children have also suffered and none of us can trust what “mood” we will get or have to tiptoe around. Im tired of hearing-“what’s up with dad?” The mood swing/anxiety recently ruined a family vacation and it became even more clear that I’d trade all of this just to live alone in peace and only worry about myself and my grown children. Let me be clear about a few things-has never touched drugs, rarely drinks, has never hit me, incredible work ethic because he loves money and fears being broke-we are probably considered well off. I do not think he is a narcissist-just some childhood crappy parenting. Although he makes very good money, it’s inconsistent because he keeps changing jobs-has had 6 different jobs in 4 years-he’s not an easy co worker. “Shrewd” and “condescending” and “unkind to people at times”. I debate in my mind if he’s truly a good person or not because he goes to church and is that guy who will stop and help change your flat tire. I’ve spent my life being his puppet, go along to get along, sweep everything under the rug. I’m a terrible communicator because I’d rather eat dirt than have conflict with him. He told me during last fight if I left, he’d make it a nightmare for me. During last (ruined)vacation, I woke up in the middle of the night with a very clear vision on how to leave. It involved finding a 30 day rental in a high rise secured building where our only contact would be through a lawyer. It would need to be an abrupt exit because he’s smart and manipulative enough to convince me to stay. I’d offer to give up more than my share of our assets in order be able to keep the family home, which I can afford on my own. He’d have 30 days to move out. The thoughts were so vivid!! But now I’m we are back home to day to day living with work, pets, kids back to college, I’m back in comfortable mode again. I’m in my forties now and I’m so afraid to stay for the sake of what is easy So how does one know when the time has come? I’ve heard “you’ll just know” , you’ll have an “aha” moment.


You say he is not a narcissist, but many of the signs are there. They are not all cheaters (though how would you know he doesn't have a double life?).


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Jamieboy said:


> Victim of what exactly, no abuse mentioned there, and how on gods good earth can you draw parallels to my situation?
> 
> Also where is the evidence of apparently tried it all, or are you just inventing facts to fit your narrative 🤔


What exactly do you define as "abuse" does she have to have bruises? There is such as thing as psychological and emotional abuse. Go and look it up. It has not only affected her but the kids as well. "Walking on egg shells" is a classic sign.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

aine said:


> What exactly do you define as "abuse" does she have to have bruises? There is such as thing as psychological and emotional abuse. Go and look it up. It has not only affected her but the kids as well. "Walking on egg shells" is a classic sign.


Yes you have taken one phrase and correctly identified abuse. You seem to have a knack for reading things that aren't there. If the OP said I'm being emotionally abused I'd have responded differently perhaps, but she didn't


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Jamieboy said:


> Victim of what exactly, no abuse mentioned there, and how on gods good earth can you draw parallels to my situation?
> 
> Also where is the evidence of apparently tried it all, or are you just inventing facts to fit your narrative 🤔


She’s fantasising about being in a high secure tower for a month. Now that’s alarming and very sad. Some people fantasise about leaving and having a cat, or new partner, or the good things, like kicking back on a beach. It’s got to be really bad where your vision is that. Upstairs in a tower, safe. 

The parallels are drawn because of your concern for these blindsided men, and the victim blaming. And taking about the women ‘using them’ for a few years while they plan their escape. And quite often, sadly, it is an actual escape. 

In your case, will you be blindsided too? That’s why I’m drawing a parallel because the anger towards this poster is coming from you quite thick. 

I’m always concerned, or course, when I see these situations, and it’s a common scenario when men get angry at their loss, to pull the ‘used him to to pay bills card’. Quite often men who have been abusive, cheated, absent etc.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> She’s fantasising about being in a high secure tower for a month. Now that’s alarming and very sad. Some people fantasise about leaving and having a cat, or new partner, or the good things, like kicking back on a beach. It’s got to be really bad where your vision is that. Upstairs in a tower, safe.
> 
> The parallels are drawn because of your concern for these blindsided men, and the victim blaming. And taking about the women ‘using them’ for a few years while they plan their escape. And quite often, sadly, it is an actual escape.
> 
> ...


I note you couldn't find any evidence of tried it all so you changed tack, so I'll challenge you to find one post on this site where I have feared being blindsided or have victim blamed.

I'm calling it as I see it based on the information presented. You however are inventing things to confirm your bias.


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## Midwestmel (10 d ago)

Jamieboy said:


> Another guy about to get blind sided. You have been with the guy for 20 plus years, he's never been any different, but you now you're bailing? You know why he's the way he is, he has mental health issues and emotional trauma by your own admission.
> 
> If you've done your best to help him with this then I apologise, otherwise your as much to blame for this situation as he is. You have your own issues, terrible communicator, conflict adverse.
> 
> ...


Eeks. That’s a harsh reply, feels like you’re projecting perhaps? I do not “live off his dime”. I too have a high paying job that I actually support us when he is in between positions. And while I am not perfect, I am not responsible for another persons happiness. I have pointed out the mood-anxiety issues and convinced him to get medication at one point.


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## Midwestmel (10 d ago)

aine said:


> You say he is not a narcissist, but many of the signs are there. They are not all cheaters (though how would you know he doesn't have a double life?).


I’ve always thought of a narcissist as being really self centered, obsessed with their looks, exaggerated sense of self importance….maybe he is and it’s covert?? If he lives a double life, I’d be shocked. We both WFH and I see/hear most everything.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Midwestmel said:


> I’ve always thought of a narcissist as being really self centered, obsessed with their looks, exaggerated sense of self importance….maybe he is and it’s covert?? If he lives a double life, I’d be shocked. We both WFH and I see/hear most everything.


Despite what someone has stated above narcissists always cheat. They gaslight and abuse, the term gets thrown around far to liberally.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Jamieboy said:


> Another guy about to get blind sided. You have been with the guy for 20 plus years, he's never been any different, but you now you're bailing? You know why he's the way he is, he has mental health issues and emotional trauma by your own admission.
> 
> If you've done your best to help him with this then I apologise, otherwise your as much to blame for this situation as he is. You have your own issues, terrible communicator, conflict adverse.
> 
> ...


A guy who's threatened to make leaving a nightmare is going to be blindsided?

She's going to wreck HIS life?

This is a really misogynistic post.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Midwestmel said:


> Eeks. That’s a harsh reply, feels like you’re projecting perhaps? I do not “live off his dime”. I too have a high paying job that I actually support us when he is in between positions. And while I am not perfect, I am not responsible for another persons happiness. I have pointed out the mood-anxiety issues and convinced him to get medication at one point.


He is projecting. Take the post with a grain i
of salt.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

My kids father threatened to make my life a nightmare too....that's what bullies do.

I wished him good luck and filed anyway.

You know what happened? Nothing. In fact he got a very good deal...his lawyer told him to take it before I changed my mind and went to court.

Bullies like to bully until it doesn't work.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Midwestmel said:


> I’ve always thought of a narcissist as being really self centered, obsessed with their looks, exaggerated sense of self importance….maybe he is and it’s covert?? If he lives a double life, I’d be shocked. We both WFH and I see/hear most everything.


Not all are grandiose, some are covert and seem pleasant enough until you live with them


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Jamieboy said:


> Despite what someone has stated above narcissists always cheat. They gaslight and abuse, the term gets thrown around far to liberally.


Really? sorry I would listen to the likes of Dr Ramani who is an expert in narcissism and no they don’t all cheat! . Take the cerebral narc for example. Maybe you are throwing around a few generalisations yourself!


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