# Reached the point of not being able to take it anymore.......and was called a 'child'



## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Hi, everyone - this is my first post, but have been reading the forums for several months now just embarrassed to post. I have seen at least a few posts from people who are dealing with something so similar to what I am dealing with.............I'll give a brief overview and then will share more about the fall-out last night which has left me DEVASTATED.

We have had these SAME arguments for YEARS. Married 23 years, two kids ages 12 and 15.............when the kids were both really young, we both were somewhat absorbed in 'kid care' and what all that entailed, that the lack of attention and affection didn't really bother me, and wasn't an issue for him since he is what I know now to be called LD. The kids started getting older and more self-sufficient, so the issues came to the surface again about 5 years ago. I wondered about "Low T" and sure enough, he went and had it checked and it was low. He went for TWO YEARS and got weekly shots and life was great. He was interested in me, affectionate, even his personality changed. He didn't see any physical effects from it and quit going because he didn't want to keep making a weekly visit. The 'gel' they gave him as another alternative did nothing, so he just decided it wasn't worth it to keep going. I noticed immediately when he quit getting the shots, and the last 6 months he has went back to the way he was before with little to no interest in me. He says it is NOT the "T", that it's ME and my expectations are just too high. He is grouchy, short with me, and just shows no real interest in me (he has initiated a few times, but I get the sense that it is to 'check it off the 1x a week box' of chores, IYKWIM. He is a GREAT father and provider, but I swear it is ALL about the kids, and I just get what feels like crumbs. And those crumbs are crumbs that anyone could get (not really a lot of intimacy).

So - I confronted him for probably the third time in the last six months, but was more direct this time. He hung up on me (this conversation started AFTER he left for work.........not my choice)...........so I texted him the following:


"I ove you and would play any price or give up anything to feel like a wife, someone special to you, someone you want to be with and that are attracted to and that is more than a companion and co-parent. I had that for two years so I know it is possible. That's all I want. To be a wife to you and feel special. I am lonely. I cry at night when I go to bed because I know you will be sitting upstairs playing your music or games or just hanging out for hours, and choosing that over me. I understand you need your unwind time. What's wrong with spending two hours on the games and cutting it short by an hour to come and spend with me? Even if nothing 'happens', you can still put your arms around me and sleep with me. That's all I want. For 10 years, we have never went to bed together at the same time. You keep saying once a week you will and it never happens. And it is rare that YOU make any effort to be with me in an intimate way. Two years ago, you were approaching me 3x a week some weeks. ALl I am asking is for once a week, and for you to do it out of more than just a sense of obligation. I get told all of the time by random guys that I am beautiful..........but NEVER by you. Do you know what I would give to hear you say that? I would gladly give up whatever else you provide for and to me if I could have more love and affection. I asked you to read "Love Languages' and you blew it off, telling me that I am not happy unless there is a problem to fix. I'm sorry you see it that way. I love you and I want to get back to the way it was those two years. I know it's possible. But I can't keep going like this. The things I NEED are the things that you are the only one in this world that could (or SHOULD) be giving me. Take away anything else you want, but please give me that. Please listen to me as your wife. I am trying to tell you what I need."

The reply? I am childish and shouldn't be demanding attention like a child. That just cut me to the core. He keeps talking about how the kids will be gone in a few years and he wants to make the most of that time. I agree with that, but WHAT ABOUT ME AND HIM??? After they leave, WE are what's left!!!! 

I won't get into specific examples, but will share two. We went away for V-day to a nice hotel (I planned it). I thought perhaps being away from the stresses of every day life would help. We were there THREE nights and nothing happened, only the morning we were getting ready to leave..........and I chalk that up to him having to 'get in his quota' before he left. Also, I went out of town for a family trip and was gone almost a week. I came back, kids were still gone for an additional week (spring break), and it was FOUR DAYS before he even approached me for any physical contact. And that was only because the kids were coming home the next day. Or so I thought. 

I just can't cope with the fact that my husband doesn't see me in any sort of intimate way, has lost attraction, or something. I weigh the same as I did when we met, I am a super-fitness buff, am told I am attractive weekly, and see no other reason why he would just not be attracted to me.

I have a counseling appointment in 2 weeks. I don't know what else to do. Before he hung up, he told me I was free to "look at your options", which he has never said before. Makes me feel like this time was the blow up of all blow-ups.

Does anyone think I need to make this time "Count" and actually LEAVE or take a bold step? We've been through it sooo many times before and it never seems to make a difference. I am wondering if I SHOULD do something bold? Can it be held against me if I leave my house (and kids) to give him space to SEE if he will miss me? I surely don't want it thrown up later should things go south that I 'abandoned' him and the kids........yet I can't stand to be here another minute while I am slowing dying inside.

Help (((


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I think you should ask him to go to MC with you in an attempt to work this out....but ultimately, he likely won't change (just based on what you've shared).

I'm sorry you are in this position, it sucks.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Does anyone think I need to make this time "Count" and actually LEAVE or take a bold step? We've been through it sooo many times before and it never seems to make a difference. I am wondering if I SHOULD do something bold? *Can it be held against me if I leave my house (and kids) to give him space to SEE if he will miss me?* I surely don't want it thrown up later should things go south that I 'abandoned' him and the kids........yet I can't stand to be here another minute while I am slowing dying inside.
> 
> Help (((


Two things. 

1. If you leave, leave because you're done. Don't leave secretly hoping he'll chase you down and beg you to come back.

2. It sounds like you've already decided that the kids will remain with him if you decide to leave, based on the bolded part above. Why is that? Why not at minimum go for joint custody?


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Well, it seems like it IS THE T, he just doesn't want to admit it. 

I really feel for you, it would burn me up if there was an easily obtained solution demonstrated for 2 years to work and my wife stopped it for no stated reason. 

Counseling may help if he hears things from a third party. The T thing will only get worse year by year without treatment.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

> I have a counseling appointment in 2 weeks. I don't know what else to do. Before he hung up, he told me I was free to "look at your options", which he has never said before. Makes me feel like this time was the blow up of all blow-ups.



Seems like he was calling your bluff with bluster.

I'm sorry for your troubles, I know right well what you're feeling.



1. Lay out exactly what you want from him. Both ideally and minimally. Affection, admiration, attention. How often and what. I know you've had this conversation with him but you need to do it one last time and I'll tell you why.

2. You give him the list and you tell him this is what you want and you let him decide if this is what he is willing to do so you feel loved.

3. You tell him you have no intention of staying in a loveless marriage.

4. You also ask him what he needs from you to feel loved and then you do it. Happily, enthusiastically, eagerly.

This will cause a slight upsurge in effort that won't last long. Once that happens start doing this:

1. You start doing stuff without him regularly. Happy hours with the girls, day trips with a friend, girls nights out and girls weekends away. You do NOT plan your fun around the family. Yes you have obligations to me but instead of sitting at home and pinning away, you get yourself out of the house and having fun..without him!

2. You stop planning anything with regard to couple time.

3. You stop paying attention to him at all except regular room mate stuff.


4. This is the important part: You begin planning your life without him. You start looking for places to live, you start planning how to best separate the household goods, you look around housing you both can afford on half the household income. You research about how much you can expect for spousal support and child support. You Make PLANS to leave.

This doesn't mean that you are actually going to do it, but once you start getting these things decided, you will begin to feel more strength and less fear about actually pulling the trigger.

And here is WHY this is important.

No One Changes Unless Not Changing is MORE Painful Than Changing.

You are going to show yourself and him that if he continues to fail to love you he will lose you. He will then decide which is more painful to him. Actually changing or losing you. And you want him to decide this before it's too late and you already have closed that door.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Does anyone think I need to make this time "Count" and actually LEAVE or take a bold step? We've been through it sooo many times before and it never seems to make a difference. I am wondering if I SHOULD do something bold? *Can it be held against me if I leave my house (and kids) to give him space to SEE if he will miss me?* I surely don't want it thrown up later should things go south that I 'abandoned' him and the kids........yet I can't stand to be here another minute while I am slowing dying inside.


Leaving him and the kids will not help you at all. It will justify to him that you are not a good wife or mother. This is not playing hard ball, this is abandoning your children. He will have a field day with it... _"I was right. She was not a good wife or mother. She is selfish.. so selfish that when I did not pander to her need for excessive attention she abandoned both me and your her children.. her children."_

He will then most likely file for divorce and for 100% custody because you abandoned them.

Your husband is not only LD, he has no interest in non-sexual intimacy with you. That is more than LD.

He probably stopped the hormone treatments because he does not want to be close to you. He is uncomfortable with it.

I think that you are at a point that an ultimatum with a real threat of divorce is your only alternative to the status quo.

I would tell him that either he goes to counseling with you and reads the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters" and works through them with you or you are filing for divorce.

If he refuses, file for divorce.

See an attorney before you do this so that you know your rights and have your ducks in a row BEFORE you give the ultimatum.

What you are asking for is what just about everyone wants in a marriage, a true partner and lover. He is not willing to give you that. 

He is very comfortable with the status quo, so comfortable that he stopped the hormone treatments to return your marriage to a place where he is comfortable.

It's time to destabilize the marriage and to let him know that things will never again be the status quo.


Do you work outside the home? Or are you a SAHM?


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

I find the instant sort of violent response by the ladies somewhat interesting. 

I don't disagree, just interesting


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## LaundryMan (Mar 17, 2015)

anonmd said:


> I find the instant sort of violent response by the ladies somewhat interesting.


My thoughts exactly, anonmd. Some of these comments...wow.

Dudes and dudettes...from the OP it sounds like everything was fine when he was on the shot. That says to me that low testosterone is the problem, a shot is the solution. His calling OP a "child" is not acceptable at all, but he simply sounds embarrassed by the problem to me. Be supportive enough to convince him to get the shot again. I wish my sexual problems could go away that easily.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

LaundryMan said:


> His calling OP a "child" is not acceptable at all



Male equivalent of the female calling the male a sex addict / pervert / sex maniac


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I think all of the ladies are right. Anon Pink has nailed it especially. 

I think it's interesting how quickly a consensus forms when a woman is in this situation vs a man but that is not relevant for the OP's predicament. 

I would go one step further than Anon Pink and advise the OP to find a way to truly become comfortable mentally with the idea of being apart.

Maybe taking the practical steps to figure out a life apart that Anon Pink recommends is enough to get you there mentally, maybe not.

But when you KNOW you can move on from your husband if he refuses to meet your needs, then you will be in control of your situation.

Then you can tell him calmly in a way he can understand what your line is.

Right now he is dismissing you believing you are just having an outburst. He is responding to the PRESENTATION, not the WORDS.

Figure out a way to come to peace with losing him and then present it to him in a calm way that he cannot ignore.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

LaundryMan said:


> My thoughts exactly, anonmd. Some of these comments...wow.
> 
> Dudes and dudettes...from the OP it sounds like everything was fine when he was on the shot. That says to me that low testosterone is the problem, a shot is the solution. His calling OP a "child" is not acceptable at all, but he simply sounds embarrassed by the problem to me. Be supportive enough to convince him to get the shot again. I wish my sexual problems could go away that easily.


I don't read her OP that way. She has begged him over and over to get back to taking his T shots. She has talked over and over and not only does he refuse, he turns it around and tries to minimize her needs by calling her a child.

How do we respond to men whose wives call them perverts for wanting sex more than once a month? Destabilize, work on yourself, them draw the line on your minimum standard of working on the relationship.

I might be one of the very few who have been there and done that and it actually worked. It worked because I was willing and ready to walk away and he knew it.

You have to be willing to risk it to save it!


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> How do we respond to men whose wives call them perverts for wanting sex more than once a month? Destabilize, work on yourself, them draw the line on your minimum standard of working on the relationship.


With a laundry list of things they must be doing wrong, because they are probably an insensitive oaf, THEN with what you wrote...

In other words, what the guy writes is surely only half the story. But the women, that must be the whole truth. 
:lol:

Again, you are probably right. Just observing.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think you should ask him to go to MC with you in an attempt to work this out....but ultimately, he likely won't change (just based on what you've shared).
> 
> I'm sorry you are in this position, it sucks.


I am not sure of how to do multiple quotes, so I may just have to do several separate responses or try to remember what I want to say.

YES, I asked him a few months ago when I first told him I was likely going to see a counselor and he DID agree to go after I have seen her a few times first on my own. Of course that was before the blow up last night and him telling me I was free to look at my options.........so I don't know if he will still agree to go, but I am going to hope that he will honor what he said he would do earlier.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I have a counseling appointment in 2 weeks. I don't know what else to do. Before he hung up, he told me I was free to "look at your options", which he has never said before. Makes me feel like this time was the blow up of all blow-ups.


Figure out which of the options folks have suggested sounds best to you, also the second best option or approach.

Then go to your counseling session. As the MC for their take on the situation. Expect them to ask to have your husband attend a session, after all it is a pretty big step.

You might want to indicate to your H that when he told you to look at your options you have and because it is such a big thing in your life and the life of the children you share with him, you would like him to attend MC with you so you can better figure out which option you want to choose based on your H's telling you to choose an option. Tell him that the MC session(s) might also help him deal with the dramatic life/family changes that you may soon initiate. You love him and want him not to be blindsided.

A good MC should be able to work with that situation quite well and find out what your H really does want or fear.

Good luck


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

anonmd said:


> With a laundry list of things they must be doing wrong, because they are probably an insensitive oaf, THEN with what you wrote...
> 
> In other words, what the guy writes is surely only half the story. But the women, that must be the whole truth.
> :lol:
> ...


First of all, of course I'm right! 

You are also right, we do question how the dude is treating her because THAT plays a large role in how much sex she is going to want with him. Because.....women's sex drives within a relationship are not fueled by testosterone. 

Case in point, I bet your wife could tell you that you're getting fat, and then start taking off her clothes to have sex and you'd join her. Try that with a woman and you'll hear her vagina clamp shut louder than a iron door in the dungeon!


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Fozzy said:


> Two things.
> 
> 1. If you leave, leave because you're done. Don't leave secretly hoping he'll chase you down and beg you to come back.
> 
> 2. It sounds like you've already decided that the kids will remain with him if you decide to leave, based on the bolded part above. Why is that? Why not at minimum go for joint custody?



Yes, I understand on #1. #2. I didn't mean long-term. I would definitely want joint custody. I meant for the immediate future. When he gets in his moods he is hard to be around and after last night, it seems like I crossed the line with him by being so direct and stating my needs that he is going to be a bear to live with. I was talking about leaving to give him his space and so I could sort through things. And I can't really take the kids with me - it would be easier if HE would leave and leave me home with them, but that will never happen. I didn't want to do that, though, and find out he could put out some kind of 'abandonment" charges ((


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening LilMissSunshine
I just wanted to say that you have my sympathy. Being rejected by the person you love is incredibly painful. 

You have landed in an ongoing discussion (debate? war?) over LD/HD so I hope you are not put off by the inevitable storm of responses.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Seems like he was calling your bluff with bluster.
> 
> I'm sorry for your troubles, I know right well what you're feeling.
> 
> ...



GAWD ((( All of this makes so much sense. And you are exactly right, no one changes unless not changing is more painful than changing. I need to print that out and keep referring back to it. I kept holding all of this inside because he gets sooo confrontational, but the longer I held it in, the longer I felt like my soul was just evaporating. I want and need his love. It's killing me!

So, how much more specific do I need to be with the list? Is this adequate:

1. Come to bed at least one time a week with me (minimal), preferably two. If this cannot be done, at least come to bed at the same time once and a second time just come and sleep with me at the hour of your choosing (as in on my side of the bed - we have a king size bed).

2. Be with me in an intimate way at least once a week (minimal). Ideal twice.

3. Attend at least four counseling sessions with me over the next four months (one per month minimum. Two per month would be ideal).

4. NOT SURE WHAT TO SAY about being complimentary and affectionate words - it just seems so 'fake' if I am 'making' him say it ((( Can somebody help with this one?


5. Go back and get on the shots at least every other week (minimal), ideally weekly.

Am I on the right track? Will he take this as being 'selfish', 'demanding', etc.???


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Leaving him and the kids will not help you at all. It will justify to him that you are not a good wife or mother. This is not playing hard ball, this is abandoning your children. He will have a field day with it... _"I was right. She was not a good wife or mother. She is selfish.. so selfish that when I did not pander to her need for excessive attention she abandoned both me and your her children.. her children."_
> 
> ?


YES, this is what I am afraid of and that I don't want. Yet I am forced to be home with him when I know he is going to be terrible to deal with all because I made my needs known. Do I just put myself in another part of the house? What can I really do while we are in this 'limbo' of trying to figure out whether or not we can get past this?

BTW, I am not a SAHM, but for the past 20 years have had a part-time professional job in my field (about 30 hours a week). I jumped off the career track because his job is very demanding and he is the higher earner, so one of us could take care of the needs of the kids. It would take me a while to get back into a full-fledged 'career', and honestly, that's what is really what is holding me back. I don't WANT to get back into it full-time especially because I still want to be there for the things that the kids need, but I am afraid going out on my own I would be forced to do that. Honestly, THAT is the biggest thing holding me back should he not make the needed changes and I am forced to make a tough decision to go.


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## Sandie (Mar 31, 2015)

what's a 'ch?


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> I think all of the ladies are right. Anon Pink has nailed it especially.
> 
> I think it's interesting how quickly a consensus forms when a woman is in this situation vs a man but that is not relevant for the OP's predicament.
> 
> ...


YES..............this makes sense, too. Maybe it would take away some of my fear that I have if it comes to the point I actually DO decide it isn't worth it anymore. I would have probably been to that point sooner had I not had these fears -mostly about not being able to make it on my own, though there are a few others. That is the big one. Putting together a budget and a list of practical matters on paper will help me see the reality of it. Maybe it will be worse than I thought, maybe not. I don't know. I guess I need to do it and just see. 

So if I cannot take a BOLD step by leaving right now - because he could call it 'abandonment' later - what *is* my bold step exactly? Confronting him with the list I shared above? Or waiting a few weeks until I have all of the practical matters that I just mentioned sorted out and THEN sharing that? I guess I'm worried about how I am going to live with him for several more weeks without making a bold move to let him know I mean business. I don't need weeks of him making me feel bad and all of the drama that comes with it. I somehow want to get the point over to him ASAP that I am at the end of my rope (( Does any of that make sense??? I'm just totally struggling right now and hoping I am making any sense to someone that can help.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> First of all, of course I'm right!
> 
> You are also right, we do question how the dude is treating her because THAT plays a large role in how much sex she is going to want with him. Because.....women's sex drives within a relationship are not fueled by testosterone.
> 
> Case in point, I bet your wife could tell you that you're getting fat, and then start taking off her clothes to have sex and you'd join her. Try that with a woman and you'll hear her vagina clamp shut louder than a iron door in the dungeon!


Damn straight AP!
:rofl::lol:

One of these days she'll piss me off so much I'll turn her down, as long as I do it right away and don't think about it for 45 seconds


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

LilMissSunshine said:


> GAWD ((( All of this makes so much sense. And you are exactly right, no one changes unless not changing is more painful than changing. I need to print that out and keep referring back to it. I kept holding all of this inside because he gets sooo confrontational, but the longer I held it in, the longer I felt like my soul was just evaporating. I want and need his love. It's killing me!
> 
> So, how much more specific do I need to be with the list? Is this adequate:
> 
> ...


This is why it took me so long to voice my unhappiness. I was very afraid that what I needed and wanted from him was too much to ask.

Your needs are what they are. Neither too much nor too little. The goal in any healthy marriage is that BOTH spouses have their needs met, feel loved and respected/honored by their spouse and grow together.

I have higher needs than my husbands...doesn't matter. He had a choice to make, as does your husband. Meet my needs or tell me you can't. Whether they are reasonable or not is NOT up for discussion!

First, he goes back to the doc. Everything predicates on that. If he refuses that, nothing else matters because he won't DO anything else.

How often do you want affection? Everyday? Hugs, pats, kisses, hand holding? Wanting or needing these everyday is okay. Refusing to do these every day, particularly when they are so simple and easy to do, shows a lack of care and concern, right?

How frequently do you want compliments? I want them often! I don't care if he thinks it's too much. And if he does think it's too much than we have a problem because I NEVER withhold a compliment and I think compliments all the time. It's not rocket science for crying out loud!

You want him to spend alone time with you twice a week. They say good relationships include significant alone time together, include dating your spouse. Do you and your H do that? If not add this to your list.

But nothing on your list will make you happy unless he is getting his T shots again. So start with that!


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Yes, AnonPink..............I think the shot would make everything else a moot point, but that's the one thing he gets the most mad about when I bring it up. Because it doesn't yield VISIBLE changes to him, he thinks it really isn't doing anything. I've told him that *I* see changes, but that just doesn't sink in. I 100% agree that should be the most important thing. In fact, maybe I should just have a list of two things..........1. shot 2. counseling. That might be less overwhelming for him, though I don't think anything I have listed is extraordinarily overwhelming either ((


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Am I on the right track? Will he take this as being 'selfish', 'demanding', etc.???


I know you weren't responding to me, but I'm responding to you because I am in a similar situation, just from a male perspective.

I believe you need to get to a point where you do not care whether he thinks what you are asking for is "selfish," "demanding," whatever.

He needs to understand flatly that whatever is so important to you is a need, something that you cannot live without.

He does not get to define what your needs are for you, you define them.

Obviously, you need to think hard about what you MUST have to continue.

He then can decide whether or not he can meet them.

To ease the burden on him, I believe it is sensible to say, "I don't expect you to meet these needs 100% tomorrow. I do expect that you will make a consistent good faith effort toward getting to 100%. I believe that over time you will get to 100%, but this will be an adjustment for both of us. If I did not believe you were capable of meeting my needs, I would not even be having this conversation with you. I believe in you and I believe we can do this together."

The above has to be 100% true. You have to believe that he can do it (maybe he really can't) and know that you will follow through with the other path if he doesn't.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> First of all, of course I'm right!
> 
> You are also right, we do question how the dude is treating her because THAT plays a large role in how much sex she is going to want with him. Because.....women's sex drives within a relationship are not fueled by testosterone.
> 
> Case in point, I bet your wife could tell you that you're getting fat, and then start taking off her clothes to have sex and you'd join her. Try that with a woman and you'll hear her vagina clamp shut louder than a iron door in the dungeon!


And btw, get it right. You forgot short, bald and probably a few others.


20 years and I've NEVER turned her down. I did pull out once when she was not exhibiting a good attitude. Had to wrestle my way out of her hooked ankles. She did NOT like that!

She proceeded to perform a memory dump of every perceived slight in the past decade........Then she wiggled her ass and we made up. 

Women are like cats, if you want to pet them they back off. Walk away or put on something black and here they come.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> I know you weren't responding to me, but I'm responding to you because I am in a similar situation, just from a male perspective.
> 
> I believe you need to get to a point where you do not care whether he thinks what you are asking for is "selfish," "demanding," whatever.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Anon1111. I DO think he is CAPABLE of it, but whether he will, I don't know. Honestly, I have been asking for YEARS for him to come to bed at the same time once or twice a week. He stays up "unwinding" with his hobbies and games for a good 3-4 hours after I go to bed. Is he CAPABLE of shutting it down one night out of seven if it means that much to me? YES, he is capable...............but I am beginning to see that it just isn't a priority. And I have let him continue to get away with it. I know how long it is going on because he made a point to tell me that ever since our youngest was born, that's how long he has gotten used to his 'alternate schedule' (and our youngest is 12, so it's really longer than 10 years). He is capable.............the question is WILL HE. And yes, I need to feel confident that I will follow through if he doesn't. Which is why I like the one idea about looking at the practical side of things that one of the other posters mentioned (i.e., I am going to put together a budget of what it would take me to survive and actually start pricing living arrangements, getting some legal advice, etc.). THEN I will know if I can actually follow through with it. It's the FEAR that has prevented me from putting any teeth into any proposed actions should he not be willing to comply. TOTALLY agree with your statements about 100%..........I will make sure and include that. As long as I see progress, I don't expect 100% right out of the gate.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

anonmd said:


> I find the instant sort of violent response by the ladies somewhat interesting.
> 
> I don't disagree, just interesting


Violent? No one has suggested any violence.

It's the same advice that would be given to a man whose wife not only refuses to do what is known to fix sex drive issues but also refuses to spend any time with the spouse.

What advice would you expect?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LaundryMan said:


> My thoughts exactly, anonmd. Some of these comments...wow.
> 
> Dudes and dudettes...from the OP it sounds like everything was fine when he was on the shot. That says to me that low testosterone is the problem, a shot is the solution. His calling OP a "child" is not acceptable at all, but he simply sounds embarrassed by the problem to me. Be supportive enough to convince him to get the shot again. I wish my sexual problems could go away that easily.


He refuses to continue with the shots.

He also refuses to spend any time with the OP. That has nothing to do with low T.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Yes, I understand on #1. #2. I didn't mean long-term. I would definitely want joint custody. I meant for the immediate future. When he gets in his moods he is hard to be around and after last night, it seems like I crossed the line with him by being so direct and stating my needs that he is going to be a bear to live with. I was talking about leaving to give him his space and so I could sort through things. And I can't really take the kids with me - it would be easier if HE would leave and leave me home with them, but that will never happen. I didn't want to do that, though, and find out he could put out some kind of 'abandonment" charges ((


He would, most likely be able to claim abandonment.

Look at the 180 in my signature block below. That is how you need to interact with him from here on out, unless he moves heaven and earth to fix things.

You have told him clearly what you need from him. He is refusing. There is nothing more to talk about unless he has a revelation. Well nothing except what I absolutely necessary for the children and running a home together.

Mostly ignore him and stay away from him. Do not address the 'talk' and long text from earlier today.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> YES, this is what I am afraid of and that I don't want. Yet I am forced to be home with him when I know he is going to be terrible to deal with all because I made my needs known. Do I just put myself in another part of the house? What can I really do while we are in this 'limbo' of trying to figure out whether or not we can get past this?


What does he do that is so terrible to deal with? Can you give some examples?

And yes you stay in a different part of the house if you need to.



LilMissSunshine said:


> BTW, I am not a SAHM, but for the past 20 years have had a part-time professional job in my field (about 30 hours a week). I jumped off the career track because his job is very demanding and he is the higher earner, so one of us could take care of the needs of the kids. It would take me a while to get back into a full-fledged 'career', and honestly, that's what is really what is holding me back. I don't WANT to get back into it full-time especially because I still want to be there for the things that the kids need, but I am afraid going out on my own I would be forced to do that. Honestly, THAT is the biggest thing holding me back should he not make the needed changes and I am forced to make a tough decision to go.


Yes, you would have to go back to work full time. How old are your children?


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Violent? No one has suggested any violence.
> 
> It's the same advice that would be given to a man whose wife not only refuses to do what is known to fix sex drive issues but also refuses to spend any time with the spouse.
> 
> What advice would you expect?


"violent" was intended somewhat tongue in cheek. Anon Pink understood exactly. 

As for advice, you do it all the time for men, look at your signature line. Or is it not possible for a man to have some unmet non-sexual need

Mind you, probably not. We're talking the worst possible combo, male brain with marginal communication and empathy to begin with + no testosterone. 

I do find the instant assumption that the women needs the fully listed out rescue plan spelled out interesting as well.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Yes, AnonPink..............I think the shot would make everything else a moot point, but that's the one thing he gets the most mad about when I bring it up. Because it doesn't yield VISIBLE changes to him, he thinks it really isn't doing anything. I've told him that *I* see changes, but that just doesn't sink in. I 100% agree that should be the most important thing. In fact, maybe I should just have a list of two things..........1. shot 2. counseling. That might be less overwhelming for him, though I don't think anything I have listed is extraordinarily overwhelming either ((


When he was on the T shots, how did that change the interactions between the two of you? Did he spend more time with you, just you without the kids? Or was it just that he wanted more sex?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

anonmd said:


> "violent" was intended somewhat tongue in cheek. Anon Pink understood exactly.


I got it too. My response was somewhat tongue in cheek as well.



anonmd said:


> As for advice, you do it all the time for men, look at your signature line. Or is it not possible for a man to have some unmet non-sexual need


I also suggest the needs based solution attempt to women all the time. But the OP has already tired that. Her h refused to read the book and to deal with anything.

If he refuses to spend any time with her and refuses to work on the marriage, how exactly is she supposed to meet any of his unmet needs? She can spew all kinds of admiration of him.. but if he is not there to hear it, it won't help will it?

So the next step is to destabilize the relationship if she wants things to change. It's a way to wake him up. If he does not wake up to the fact that she is not a child and is not just being demanding, then there is not much else she can do.. except to accept the marriage as it is or leave.



anonmd said:


> Mind you, probably not. We're talking the worst possible combo, male brain with marginal communication and empathy to begin with + no testosterone.
> 
> I do find the instant assumption that the women needs the fully listed out rescue plan spelled out interesting as well.


If she had said that she had not done anything yet, then I would have suggested that she try the "His Needs, Her Needs" thing first.

But you see she said that she asked him to read the love languages book and he refused. He refuses to spend any time with her. There is a long line if what he refuses.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Thanks, Anon1111. I DO think he is CAPABLE of it, but whether he will, I don't know. Honestly, I have been asking for YEARS for him to come to bed at the same time once or twice a week. He stays up "unwinding" with his hobbies and games for a good 3-4 hours after I go to bed. Is he CAPABLE of shutting it down one night out of seven if it means that much to me? YES, he is capable...............but I am beginning to see that it just isn't a priority. And I have let him continue to get away with it. I know how long it is going on because he made a point to tell me that ever since our youngest was born, that's how long he has gotten used to his 'alternate schedule' (and our youngest is 12, so it's really longer than 10 years). He is capable.............the question is WILL HE. And yes, I need to feel confident that I will follow through if he doesn't. Which is why I like the one idea about looking at the practical side of things that one of the other posters mentioned (i.e., I am going to put together a budget of what it would take me to survive and actually start pricing living arrangements, getting some legal advice, etc.). THEN I will know if I can actually follow through with it. It's *the FEAR that has prevented me from putting any teeth into any proposed actions should he not be willing to comply*. TOTALLY agree with your statements about 100%..........I will make sure and include that. As long as I see progress, I don't expect 100% right out of the gate.


He can sense the fear. He knows that no matter how much you complain you will not leave him. 

When I say that you need to destabilize the relationship, I don't mean that you need to do it today or tomorrow. Planning, getting your ducks in a row, seeing an attorney are all steps in the right direction. When you are ready, if he has not changed, you will know that it's the time to do something.

But do not wait until you no longer care about him and the relationship. Because then there is no one last chance of fixing things. It happens very often that once a person does actually leave, the other spouse finally believes them and wakes up. But then it's too late to fix anything. The key is to destabilize the relationship before you could care less but after your are sure that you will leave if things do not get better.

Have you read the book "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters"? If not I really suggest that you read them. They are more in-depth than the love languages book. I suggest that you add them to your list of things you need from him.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> He can sense the fear. He knows that no matter how much you complain you will not leave him.
> 
> When I say that you need to destabilize the relationship, I don't mean that you need to do it today or tomorrow. Planning, getting your ducks in a row, seeing an attorney are all steps in the right direction. When you are ready, if he has not changed, you will know that it's the time to do something.
> .


EleGirl, when I say he is awful to be around when he is in one of his moods, he isn't violent or verbally abusive, he is just short with whatever he is saying, stomps around, basically just asks like the kid that didn't get a second cookie. Makes me feel like I am continuing to do something wrong, even if I just ignore him. But that's what I will do. He has actually already gotten home, changed clothes, and took a child out to bring home pizza. he was just as I described.........short, not much to say, no hug or usual peck on the cheek. When I say there is NO affection, there is no REAL affection..........a peck in the morning and at night and a hug like you would give your grandmother once a day, and that's it...............so it's not COMPLETELY without affection, but there certainly isn't anything that I would consider that would be reserved for the spouse only. Also, he WILL watch TV with me, will go out if I plan something, so it's not that he won't spend any time, he just doesn't want to do anything that requires physical contact with me.................I hope I didn't make it sound worse than it is (which it IS bad, for the one that lives with it because I crave more............but he isn't totally unemotional and detached).

I am going to look up those books tonight. I have an e-reader and have a feeling I will be spending the evening alone after the confrontation, so if they are available electronically, I can get a good start.

DE-STABLIZE. That makes sense. And isn't something I have heard of before, but then again, I've never gotten to this point before. I think part of what makes him think he can get away with it is that I have told him long ago that no matter what, we would never leave each other...............he agreed to the same. We both have strong religious beliefs, though now, I honestly think I would still consider a change just because of how miserable I have become.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

One of the side effects of low T is grumpiness and irritability.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Perhaps inform your H that there is an insertable pellet which is implanted beneath the skin that slowly releases testosterone over a six month period thereby eliminating the need for weekly injections.


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## jin (Sep 9, 2014)

The obvious solution would be you secretly administer the T to him.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Why is he going to Dr. to get shots weekly. My Dr. prescribed me a 10 cc vial and I give myself shots weekly. I detest the way he is acting toward you. He is being an ass.

May not be right but if I were in your shoes I would get dolled up and go "out"...go to relatives and crash on couch till about 5 am. Do not answer your phone. When he asks where you were just say with a smile..."Looking at my options like you said" and go straight to take a shower and not discuss a thing.

But then... I'm the type of person who says rock the boat hell!!! I'm gonna sink it!!!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I am not sure of how to do multiple quotes, so I may just have to do several separate responses or try to remember what I want to say.


If you mean that you do not know how to break up a post into multiple quotes... just put the quote tags around blocks of text



LilMissSunshine said:


> like this text block 1 [ / QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jin said:


> The obvious solution would be you secretly administer the T to him.


Um yea... that's a felony.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> First of all, of course I'm right!
> 
> You are also right, we do question how the dude is treating her because THAT plays a large role in how much sex she is going to want with him. Because.....women's sex drives within a relationship are not fueled by testosterone.
> 
> Case in point, I bet your wife could tell you that you're getting fat, and then start taking off her clothes to have sex and you'd join her. Try that with a woman and you'll hear her vagina clamp shut louder than a iron door in the dungeon!


I must be one of the strange ones. I am basically a walking hard on but absolutely can't have sex if I'm mad or emotionally hurt.

OP. Anon Pink has walked the walk and knows well what she is talking about. I hope you can work it out but must admit some anger towards your H's response.

You have been very adult in your approach to this problem. He, quite the opposite.

You are going to have to brace yourself for action of some sort, follow APs lead, because your H is either too selfish or immature to deal.

I still don't comprehend men behaving this way. It is starting to look like a plague.

I know a young woman that divorced because her H wouldn't have sex. She is beautiful and in the prime of vitality and youth.

Kinda bizarre!:scratchhead:


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Update: didn't go through my list of five things this morning, but choose TWO (the shot and the counselor).

1. Counselor - said he will still go with me.
2. Shot - says NO that he never thought it did anything for him and says I am being totally unrealistic that for someone married over 20 years and mid-forties that more than once a week is totally NOT the norm (where he is getting this from, I don't know).

He was still very defensive and said *I* need to step up and approach him more...................which kind of defeats the whole thing of me wanting HIM to be interested. I could approach every day, but if he doesn't do it, then it's the same thing I've been thinking all along - he isn't interested.

So very grateful to at least feel some degree of control in this situation with being proactive and doing my homework, knowing that I *will* be o.k., with or without him (though I hope it is WITH.....23 years is a long time to be with someone. And I do love him )


SOOOO..........don't know if this is considered 'progress' or not, but I guess I should say it is since he agreed to 1 of the 2 things. Going to start my 'pre-planning' for destabilizing and getting all of my stuff in order, researching, etc.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

That's progress. Once in therapy with you his version of normal will be corrected. 

What do you think he means when he says you need to step up and approach him more? Does he want you to seduce him, do a strip tease or something? How will you know whether or not he will reject you? I can see that seducing him might be a lot of fun...if he didn't reject you. Why would he want you to step up more when it's him who doesn't want sex to begin with? Are the other things going on that might be bothering him?


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> 2. Shot - says NO that he never thought it did anything for him and says I am being totally unrealistic that for someone married over 20 years and mid-forties that more than once a week is totally NOT the norm (where he is getting this from, I don't know.


Straight out of the LD playbook! Once a week, once a month, whatever. 

Don't fret. This is good, the counseling thing.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Mixed feelings on wanting you to initiate, I think you may need to bend some here. There are compromises that could be worked out. Light a candle to signal general interest for example.


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## Colonel Angus (Apr 11, 2015)

If your hubby calls you a child for wanting attention darlin', then just wait until he sees another man providing his wife that attention. He's goin' to be the one cryin' like a baby.



If I overstayed my welcome, just tap me on the head.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Do you know what your bottom line is regarding frequency? Are you willing to end the relationship if you don't get it multiple times per week?

you need to be credible when you talk to him. If you say you NEED sex twice per week and then you do nothing when he says no, then he will not take any of your other supposed needs seriously and you will be right back where you started (probably worse).

Him accepting therapy is a start. Figure out what your true bottom line is regarding sex, spending time together, going to bed together. Be prepared to lay it out for him clearly in therapy and be prepared to say the relationship won't continue if he cannot make a good faith effort to meet your needs.

You have tolerated it thus far so he will not be inclined to believe you. Be prepared for that and be prepared to speak to him in a calm very serious way that demonstrates that you have come to a decision to assert your needs despite the past.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Regarding initiating, I agree with anonmd that I would seek some middle ground here at first.

I can assure you I know how painful it is to have a spouse who never shows affirmative interest. I would never say give up on expecting your husband to initiate completely.

However, if you could up the sexual frequency and togetherness by YOUR initiating, at least at first, that could become a foundation for HIM to initiate later.

You could be up front about this. Say, "I know we have not been close recently and I am expecting a lot from you in terms of changes. I am willing to reach out to you more now in the hope that this will encourage you to reach out to me too."


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