# when the CS doesnt always end up too bad after all



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

A not so close friend of mine, his W had an A about 8 years ago, way before my W had her own, but anyways recently she got back into FB and friended me, I casually accepted because back then I never judged her (he use to beat up on her) and well she looks very good and she married the guy she had the A with, and they are doing very well, have a huge ranch up in NV and fancy vacations and stuff. He in turn (BH) doesnt look too good, you can see age and stress I suppose have taken a toll on him, he works his tail off as always and he is alone (not sure if by choice or what). They have split custody of 2 kids, one over 18
Anyways my point is not the first time I see cheaters come out just fine on the other end, hence I never been a karma believer. He wasnt the best husband on earth and as I said he used to beat up on her and stuff, of course her citing this the reason for her A, but overall was a nice guy on the outside to me. Alongside I also dont believe this notion that cheaters that marry their AP never last, not always the case as in this one, so far at least. just food for thought.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I do wonder though. Do cheaters in general, who divorced their betrayed spouses and marry their AP's, if they always wonder if they will be cheated on? I think trust would always be in the back of their minds, simply because their own relationship came from having an affair with each other. Idk. What do you think about that?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CantBelieveThis said:


> A not so close friend of mine, his W had an A about 8 years ago, way before my W had her own, but anyways recently she got back into FB and friended me, I casually accepted because back then I never judged her (he use to beat up on her) and well she looks very good and she married the guy she had the A with, and they are doing very well, have a huge ranch up in NV and fancy vacations and stuff. He in turn (BH) doesnt look too good, you can see age and stress I suppose have taken a toll on him, he works his tail off as always and he is alone (not sure if by choice or what). They have split custody of 2 kids, one over 18
> Anyways my point is not the first time I see cheaters come out just fine on the other end, hence I never been a karma believer. He wasnt the best husband on earth and as I said he used to beat up on her and stuff, of course her citing this the reason for her A, but overall was a nice guy on the outside to me. Alongside I also dont believe this notion that cheaters that marry their AP never last, not always the case as in this one, so far at least. just food for thought.


If he was beating her then he was just as abusive as her affair was. Doesn't sound like a nice guy to me. I bet you wouldn't be saying that if he was hitting you.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Physical abuse on the part of a BH is one of THE things that will prompt me to summarily not give a **** about his wife leaving him for someone else.

We do swear to "love, honor, and _protect_", after all.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

My Dad married his AP and they have been happy ever since. 

But this guy beat his wife, he's not a nice guy. Looks like karma got HIM. 
She may get her own kind as well that you don't see.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> I do wonder though. Do cheaters in general, who divorced their betrayed spouses and marry their AP's, if they always wonder if they will be cheated on? I think trust would always be in the back of their minds, simply because their own relationship came from having an affair with each other. Idk. What do you think about that?


The OP was an example of an exit affair from an abusive relationship.

Different animal than other affairs.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

sokillme said:


> If he was beating her then he was just as abusive as her affair was. Doesn't sound like a nice guy to me. I bet you wouldn't be saying that if he was hitting you.


Actually for all we know, his beating her may have been the cause for her affair. The douche bag probably has gotten what he deserves, Because no one who abuses another should imagine they deserve that persons loyalty and faithfulness.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> My Dad married his AP and they have been happy ever since.
> 
> But this guy beat his wife, he's not a nice guy. Looks like karma got HIM.
> She may get her own kind as well that you don't see.


Her Karma may be the good marriage she apparently now has for putting up with abusive *******.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Even if he was nice to you, I would NEVER use the word nice to describe any man who beat his wife.

That aside, and addressing the broader question here as to whether APs can have lasting success, of course I won't say it can't happen, but the odds are not in their favor as they have both proven to be cheaters. In the absence of extreme circumstances (such as the physical battery you described) chances are high that at least one of them will stay true to form. 

So while it is possible, no W should ever be surprised if he/she becomes a B in the ensuing relationship. It astonishes me that anyone who has been a W would assume they were somehow immune to this.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> The OP was an example of an exit affair from an abusive relationship.
> 
> Different animal than other affairs.


I agree, but in general, if there's no abuse, and the affair partners get married, I wonder if they struggle with trust issues because of how their own relationship started?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> The OP was an example of an exit affair from an abusive relationship.
> 
> Different animal than other affairs.


While my parents were not in an abusive marriage, my mom did have an exit affair after many years of a bad match with my dad. Exit affairs are indeed a very different animal than other affairs.

My mom married her AP and they have been happily married for 30 years. It has been an excellent match for both of them.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> I agree, but in general, if there's no abuse, and the affair partners get married, I wonder if they struggle with trust issues because of how their own relationship started?


Yes. Generally they do. Crappy behavior and character are poor building blocks for a relationship.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Never really put much stock into karma or "they never really last". The ones that leave me shaking my head are the cases where the BSs are left blindsided when their CSs run off into a happy sunset with their APs. Abuse and bad compatibility? I get that. But the aforementioned cases...?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Oh and I just wanted to add that a lot of abusers are totally nice on the outside. That's how they end up with people. It's not like they smack them around on the first date. They are often charming, often popular and friends of the community, often guys you'd never think would be that way. It's why they get away with it.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

*Deidre* said:


> I agree, but in general, if there's no abuse, and the affair partners get married, I wonder if they struggle with trust issues because of how their own relationship started?





ConanHub said:


> Yes. Generally they do. Crappy behavior and character are poor building blocks for a relationship.



Sorry guys, but that's just wishful thinking on the part of BS. 

I agree that there is a cheater's script, but this isn't necessarily part of it. Most second marriages in general fail, whether there is prior cheating involved or not. It all depends on the situation. Anyway, it sounds like this guy got what he deserved and I agree that abusive behavior is itself a betrayal. The minute he started beating her, his wife owed him nothing.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Thor said:


> While my parents were not in an abusive marriage, my mom did have an exit affair after many years of a bad match with my dad. *Exit affairs are indeed a very different animal than other affairs.*
> 
> My mom married her AP and they have been happily married for 30 years. It has been an excellent match for both of them.


Very good point. Some people don't have the courage or strength to consciously end a bad marriage. Instead they will sabotage the marriage so that their partner ends it for them. It is easy to stop taking care of your body, start drinking, or doing inappropriate things with others of the opposite sex as you tell yourself that your marriage is fine, until your spouse ends the marriage and you silently celebrate.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

blahfridge said:


> Sorry guys, but that's just wishful thinking on the part of BS.
> 
> I agree that there is a cheater's script, but this isn't necessarily part of it. Most second marriages in general fail, whether there is prior cheating involved or not. It all depends on the situation. Anyway, it sounds like this guy got what he deserved and I agree that abusive behavior is itself a betrayal. The minute he started beating her, his wife owed him nothing.


I'm simply speaking from the 50+ cases of infidelity I have personally known and quite a bit of research.

Maybe a lot of second marriages occurred because of crappy behavior in the first one? Would make sense.

Mrs. Conan was the OW in two marriages and was cheated on and cheated in both her marriages before meeting me.

Trust has always been an issue for her and not for me as I've never cheated.

Any crappy behavior is a poor foundation for a relationship, infidelity is one of the worst.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

blahfridge said:


> Sorry guys, but that's just wishful thinking on the part of BS.
> 
> I agree that there is a cheater's script, but this isn't necessarily part of it. Most second marriages in general fail, whether there is prior cheating involved or not. It all depends on the situation. Anyway, it sounds like this guy got what he deserved and I agree that abusive behavior is itself a betrayal. The minute he started beating her, his wife owed him nothing.





ConanHub said:


> *I'm simply speaking from the 50+ cases of infidelity I have personally known *and quite a bit of research.
> 
> Maybe a lot of second marriages occurred because of crappy behavior in the first one? Would make sense.
> 
> ...


You've personally known of 50+ cases!!?? Are you involved in a support group? :surprise:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

blahfridge said:


> You've personally known of 50+ cases!!?? Are you involved in a support group? :surprise:


Ministry on the marriage 💑 and counseling end of things. Good work but painful.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Physical abuse on the part of a BH is one of THE things that will prompt me to summarily not give a **** about his wife cheating on him.
> 
> We do swear to "love, honor, and _protect_", after all.


I couldn't agree more Gus.....that why I never really have had I'll feelings towards her....once you hit me once is all over

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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Even if he was nice to you, I would NEVER use the word nice to describe any man who beat his wife.
> 
> That aside, and addressing the broader question here as to whether APs can have lasting success, of course I won't say it can't happen, but the odds are not in their favor as they have both proven to be cheaters. In the absence of extreme circumstances (such as the physical battery you described) chances are high that at least one of them will stay true to form.
> 
> So while it is possible, no W should ever be surprised if he/she becomes a B in the ensuing relationship. It astonishes me that anyone who has been a W would assume they were somehow immune to this.


I don't disagree with yours or anyone's reply really....and before their A, the abuse was unknown to me. 

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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sometimes, people made really bad choices with their first marriage and while cheating is a bad choice, getting together with someone you really love and loves you back is a good investment.

I could have been the OM with my first love who married an idiot for many wrong reasons.

If I would have had sex with her or even asked, she would have left him in a heartbeat and we would have probably been great together.

I had strong principles and didn't let it happen but it would have probably been successful between us.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

*Deidre* said:


> I agree, but in general, if there's no abuse, and the affair partners get married, I wonder if they struggle with trust issues because of how their own relationship started?


My best friend married her AP. They trusted each other explicitly. He had an affair 4/5 years ago and she was completely shocked and devastated. With my bff, she'd only ever been unfaithful to her ex husband, with her current husband, for a period of about 4 months before she left her ex husband forbger current husband. Her ex husband was 30 years her senior, wouldn't have sex with her md they got married because he was a park ranger and they wouldn't let her live on the state park property with him unless they were married. She left him for her AP, he himself was remarried 6 months later, they've never spoken since. Her new husband however was a serial cheat, admittedly.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

LH, Your friend picked two total losers in a row. What are the odds?


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

TDSC60 said:


> LH, Your friend picked two total losers in a row. What are the odds?


Lost her virginity to her gym teacher at the age of 13, her step dad found out, got jealous and started raping her. Her mom knew and stayed with her stepdad because she needed his income. No one ever turned in the gym teacher either. No one ever protected her from bad men. Her dad left her mom for her moms best friend. All in all, she didn't learn much about love growing up. And cheating 15 years ago aside, shes an amazing woman. Heart of gold. I wish things had been different in her life.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

CantBelieveThis said:


> A not so close friend of mine, his W had an A about 8 years ago, way before my W had her own, but anyways recently she got back into FB and friended me, I casually accepted because back then I never judged her (he use to beat up on her) and well she looks very good and she married the guy she had the A with, and they are doing very well, have a huge ranch up in NV and fancy vacations and stuff. He in turn (BH) doesnt look too good, you can see age and stress I suppose have taken a toll on him, he works his tail off as always and he is alone (not sure if by choice or what). They have split custody of 2 kids, one over 18
> Anyways my point is not the first time I see cheaters come out just fine on the other end, hence I never been a karma believer. He wasnt the best husband on earth and as I said he used to beat up on her and stuff, of course her citing this the reason for her A, but overall was a nice guy on the outside to me. Alongside I also dont believe this notion that cheaters that marry their AP never last, not always the case as in this one, so far at least. just food for thought.


In the beginning, he beat her.
In the end, she beat the odds.

At the end, she beats feet.
At the end of his rope, BH now beats his meat.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

My intuition is ringing, really insistent.
It references this post, references this beating.
This alleged beating.

Did he beat her?
Did she re-write their marriage?

If he did beat her.
If he did beat her, did he beat a cheater?

Not excusing beating.
Not excusing cheating.

Which came first?

The cheating or the beating?


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## Primrose (Mar 4, 2015)

My ex-husband's dad left for his AP and they've been together for 15 years (not counting the four years their affair lasted) and married for 11. They do seem genuinely happy, but I, too, wonder if they live in constant paranoia.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> My best friend married her AP. They trusted each other explicitly. He had an affair 4/5 years ago and she was completely shocked and devastated. With my bff, she'd only ever been unfaithful to her ex husband, with her current husband, for a period of about 4 months before she left her ex husband forbger current husband. Her ex husband was 30 years her senior, wouldn't have sex with her md they got married because he was a park ranger and they wouldn't let her live on the state park property with him unless they were married. She left him for her AP, he himself was remarried 6 months later, they've never spoken since. Her new husband however was a serial cheat, admittedly.


That sounds so painful to go through.  It could be coincidence, but I don't think that anyone who marries their AP thinks that the same AP will do to them, what he/she did to their BS. But, I just wonder if there is some distrust there, etc because they married as a result of an affair. 

Cheating can be a symptom of a bad marriage, but often times, it seems to be a symptom of a person's unhappiness in themselves, so they go off to marry the AP, and the same unhappiness lingers, never being resolved. (like your friend's AP maybe?) They think it was the marriage, but it was them.


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## JustTheFacts (Jun 27, 2017)

This case doesn't count. Beaters are worse than cheaters. She deserves a good second marriage not bad karma.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I would think it would have a lot to do with the marriage before the cheating, how the affair happened and was dealt with, if they left for each other or got kicked out and had to go with the AP. 

All kinds of variables. 

A guy that just got bored with married life and meets someone new will probably be more likely to cheat again than the guy who's wife hasn't had sex with him for 10 years and he meets and falls in love with someone because he is so detached from his marriage and she is willing to meet his needs.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

*Deidre* said:


> That sounds so painful to go through.  It could be coincidence, but I don't think that anyone who marries their AP thinks that the same AP will do to them, what he/she did to their BS. But, I just wonder if there is some distrust there, etc because they married as a result of an affair.
> 
> Cheating can be a symptom of a bad marriage, but often times, it seems to be a symptom of a person's unhappiness in themselves, so they go off to marry the AP, and the same unhappiness lingers, never being resolved. (like your friend's AP maybe?) They think it was the marriage, but it was them.


Her husband is a piece of work. His mom and dad left him when he was 15, he has ptsd from the military and when he was a police officer, he attempted suicide when she caught him cheating and threatens suicide again every 2-3 months. He has major depression issues. Gets a new job every 6 months or so because he hates everywhere he works. I wish she'd leave him honestly. Not because he had an affair, but because he sucks everything out of her.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> Her husband is a piece of work. His mom and dad left him when he was 15, he has ptsd from the military and when he was a police officer, he attempted suicide when she caught him cheating and threatens suicide again every 2-3 months. He has major depression issues. Gets a new job every 6 months or so because he hates everywhere he works. I wish she'd leave him honestly. Not because he had an affair, but because he sucks everything out of her.


That's so sad. I think that we're all broken in our own ways, we all have issues. It's what we do with the brokenness that matters. So sad she is still with him, ugh!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Sometimes, people made really bad choices with their first marriage and while cheating is a bad choice, getting together with someone you really love and loves you back is a good investment.


Then divorce first before dating...its not a hard concept....


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

[SGC
the guy who's wife hasn't had sex with him for 10 years and he meets and falls in love with someone because he is so detached from his marriage and she is willing to meet his needs.[/b] 

Throw in spends like crazy, is critical of him, plus, etc. But we still have the notion divorce before cheating.

I agree with you SGC.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Yes. Generally they do. Crappy behavior and character are poor building blocks for a relationship.


Of course not! They are often so much in love with their new love that the idea of their new love cheating on them does not even occur to them.

Only someone who has drunk a glass of delicious Rainbow Unicorn milkshake (not the ordinary kind, but the one with sparkly sprinkles) will even start to understand this mind set.

Trouble is when you get some sparkly bits stuck between uour teeth.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

JustTheFacts said:


> This case doesn't count. Beaters are worse than cheaters. She deserves a good second marriage not bad karma.


Maybe this is her good karma? 

Some people tend to think of karma as being punishment. It isn't.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Then divorce first before dating...its not a hard concept....


Absolutely preaching to the choir here partner!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

CantBelieveThis said:


> A not so close friend of mine, his W had an A about 8 years ago, way before my W had her own, but anyways recently she got back into FB and friended me, I casually accepted because back then I never judged her (he use to beat up on her) and well she looks very good and she married the guy she had the A with, and they are doing very well, have a huge ranch up in NV and fancy vacations and stuff. He in turn (BH) doesnt look too good, you can see age and stress I suppose have taken a toll on him, he works his tail off as always and he is alone (not sure if by choice or what). They have split custody of 2 kids, one over 18
> Anyways my point is not the first time I see cheaters come out just fine on the other end, hence I never been a karma believer. He wasnt the best husband on earth and as I said
> he used to beat up on her and stuff, of course her citing this the reason for her A, but overall was a nice guy on the outside to me. Alongside I also dont believe this notion that cheaters that marry their AP never last, not always the case as in this one, so far at least. just food for thought.


*Yeah, but do the elements of deception and cheating themselves give credence enough to make the entire act right?*


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

JustTheFacts said:


> This case doesn't count. Beaters are worse than cheaters. She deserves a good second marriage not bad karma.


Bingo...fvck him - he needs to work on himself - she is lucky she escaped without real physical damage or death...


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Handy said:


> [SGC
> the guy who's wife hasn't had sex with him for 10 years and he meets and falls in love with someone because he is so detached from his marriage and she is willing to meet his needs.[/b]
> 
> Throw in spends like crazy, is critical of him, plus, etc. But we still have the notion divorce before cheating.
> ...


Yes. And for the record it is wrong to cheat. 

Sometimes people get complacent. They don't leave their bad marriage. They get used to it and stay. Then someone comes along that wakes them up and wants to meet their needs and they get the push to end their marriage. 

It's wrong. It's still very wrong and they should have divorced first. But in those situations they are less likely to just be a cheater who cheats on every partner they have.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I've read that studies have found that about 3% of affairs lead to marriages that last more than a year or so.

So yes, some affairs do turn into long term relationships. Most do not.

In the case of this woman the OP is talking about, good on her for finding a better relationship.


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## Aletta (Aug 7, 2017)

*Deidre* said:


> I agree, but in general, if there's no abuse, and the affair partners get married, I wonder if they struggle with trust issues because of how their own relationship started?


I think that maybe not. The couple believes they are special. That their true love overcame obstacles. I have seen this.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I would like to amend my previous statement...



GusPolinski said:


> Physical abuse on the part of a BH is one of THE things that will prompt me to summarily not give a **** about his wife cheating on him.


...to this...

Physical abuse on the part of a BH is one of THE things that will prompt me to summarily not give a **** about his wife leaving him for someone else.


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## LaReine (Aug 14, 2017)

Don't know about in general..

A close couple friend of ours are APs. He has outright said he will never marry her as she clearly doesn't value marriage or wouldn't have been with him (while he was married). And also that he doesn't ever want her to believe he would do it again to a "new" wife.

They are happy but she often wonders if he is cheating, and he often wonders if she is cheating. Both agree they deserve it either way for how they ended up together.


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