# Gone sour... ***sorry if this is TMI***



## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Hi,

What a frustrating situation i found myself in night before last..

W had been sick for the past 2 weeks and on monthly week before so no sex for 3 weeks. This weekend we were camping and she says "if we were home you'd be getting it tonight".. im like ohh man that sucks (kids sleeping in camper, not a good place to fool around). So next day we're back home and in my mind this was like THE night  so she comes in bed undressed and lays there, she likes to have her back rubbed ect at first so I do that and start rubbing her back. I do that for like almost an hour and she still doesn't move,,, im starting to wonder!
So I start kissing her back and neck hoping to get her to reciprocate... nothing so I assume she still wants me to rub her back so I continue... 
After another while she gets like annoyed and says "we may as well just do it because im not getting in the mood"... so i'm at that point quite frustrated but im not showing it since I would kindof like to have sex since it's been that long... but I told her that we could wait if she didnt feel it.
Then she turns around and suddenly exposes herself so I can go in... but guess what, I'm not up yet! But really did she expect me to have an erection for an hour and a half while she was getting in the mood. She then gets annoyed with that saying I didn't really want her if I wasn't hard... eventually it gets up and I start to try and go in her but by then she's closed up her legs and im just going at her behind area waiting... she never opens her legs until im almost ready to finish... so I get inside for a few seconds and im done.
within seconds she gets up slams the bedroom and bathroom doors ect... I almost felt like I was raping her at the end which is why I didn't persist to get inside of her so I had come to terms with finishing oustide.

So that's the story, she gives me cold sholder all night. When I say "I love you" before going to sleep she says "im not so sure", so I asked her a few times why she said that and she comes up with "I don't know", so I say "well if you don't know, don't say it!", that was it for that night.

Next day acts as though I did something wrong. When I persist for knowing why she said "well you wouldn't even go inside of me"... arggg anyway I told her she didn't make sense and I felt likle I was raping her given the hard time I was having. I told her the next time she's not feeling it I would rather not do it at all and that I will stop if she acts like that again.

(part 2 next post)


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

so fast forward to last night and we watched a movie together, and afterwards I found she was getting kind of cuddly and started to kiss her... she reciprocated right back and started kissing me one thing led to another and we had a great time of intimacy. She was actively participating which made me ready for her when she was... 
This morning she said well that was better than last time... I told her yes and that I enjoyed that she was participating rather than just laying there and that's why I was ready for her.. hopefully she gets the point for next time...

I wanted to share this as it kind of follows a prev thread in the main section, although it turned out ok the next day I would like to know what some of you would do in this situation..


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

strat_guy said:


> I told her the next time she's not feeling it I would rather not do it at all and that I will stop if she acts like that again.


Yah, this would be best in that situation.

I don't know your story, strat_guy, but it appears that there are some relationship issues going on with you and your wife that need to be addressed? Those kinds of things have a way of creeping into the bedroom.

Best wishes.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

strat_guy said:


> so fast forward to last night and we watched a movie together, and afterwards I found she was getting kind of cuddly and started to kiss her... she reciprocated right back and started kissing me one thing led to another and we had a great time of intimacy. She was actively participating which made me ready for her when she was...
> This morning she said well that was better than last time... I told her yes and that I enjoyed that she was participating rather than just laying there and that's why I was ready for her.. hopefully she gets the point for next time...
> 
> I wanted to share this as it kind of follows a prev thread in the main section, although it turned out ok the next day I would like to know what some of you would do in this situation..


 I like that you didn't let her get 
away with turning it all on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

golfergirl said:


> I like that you didn't let her get
> away with turning it all on you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I knew she would try it and knew I had done nothing to deserve that kind of a reaction so I wanted to make sure she knew how I felt about it... thanks for the thumbs up!


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

strat_guy said:


> so fast forward to last night and we watched a movie together, and afterwards I found she was getting kind of cuddly and started to kiss her... she reciprocated right back and started kissing me one thing led to another and we had a great time of intimacy. She was actively participating which made me ready for her when she was...
> This morning she said well that was better than last time... I told her yes and that I enjoyed that she was participating rather than just laying there and that's why I was ready for her.. hopefully she gets the point for next time...
> 
> I wanted to share this as it kind of follows a prev thread in the main section, although it turned out ok the next day I would like to know what some of you would do in this situation..


I posted my previous reply before I saw this second post of yours - and sorry, I admit that I haven't followed your other thread. I will have to go look it up.

Well, in the first case, maybe you could tell she wasn't real responsive that night - an hour of massage with no reciprocation. Yah, time to hang up your shoes - it wasn't likely to happen.

Ask yourself what were the differences between those two nights? On the first night when she wasn't as responsive, had you two done anything to connect with each prior to getting in to bed like you did on the second night?

The second night you watched a movie together, sitting together and cuddling. It may have met her needs for your attention - some conversation and affection - and maybe she was feeling a bit better physically too.

For a lot of women, the prelude and the ramp-up to sex is an entire event, not just an act. So, whether dudes want to believe it or not - what you do in the hours before sex can often make a big difference as to whether your wife will be ready for it or not. That's because for us women it can be more about how we feel emotionally, and it can be difficult to just flip a switch. You've got to learn to work the system - work her up emotionally with affection and talking and see how it goes. 

Best wishes.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> I posted my previous reply before I saw this second post of yours.
> 
> Well, in the first case, maybe you could tell she wasn't real responsive that night - an hour of massage with no reciprocation. Yah, time to hang up your shoes - it wasn't likely to happen.
> 
> ...


Its true though we had more time to relax together so that could have made a diff and her feeling better may also have played a part. In my mind the reason I didn't stop was because i didn't want her to feel like I didn't desrire her because I really did but it just makes it hard when there is no reciprocation during the pre activities...


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

A camper is a great place to get it on.

Sorry you had a bad night.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

that_girl said:


> A camper is a great place to get it on.
> 
> Sorry you had a bad night.


Thanks... yes camper is a great place but only if you don't have your kids with you  that's a little too close for comfort.. depending on the layout but this one is too close


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

strat_guy said:


> Thanks... yes camper is a great place but only if you don't have your kids with you  that's a little too close for comfort.. depending on the layout but this one is too close


Damn kids. 



:rofl:


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

hi hi what can you do eh


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

When my wife crawls into bed naked and turns her back to me, sometimes the same thing happens. She just lays there. But if she is naked, I know what she expects.

Typically what I find works is to tease her. I rub her back for a while (maybe 10 minutes or so). After a bit, I might have my hand move around in front on her tummy and grace the underside of her breasts. I rub lower down her back to her bottom. Then her thighs, then every once in a while, I let my had grace her vajayjay. 

Just rubbing her back, doesn't get her into it, but teasingly touching her will usually get her to participate.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

SadSamIAm said:


> When my wife crawls into bed naked and turns her back to me, sometimes the same thing happens. She just lays there. But if she is naked, I know what she expects.
> 
> Typically what I find works is to tease her. I rub her back for a while (maybe 10 minutes or so). After a bit, I might have my hand move around in front on her tummy and grace the underside of her breasts. I rub lower down her back to her bottom. Then her thighs, then every once in a while, I let my had grace her vajayjay.
> 
> Just rubbing her back, doesn't get her into it, but teasingly touching her will usually get her to participate.


that makes sense... I sometimes think of that and then don't want to make it look like I want to get it done and over with... I guess a good balance of both worlds is what I should aim for in this situation.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

strat_guy said:


> that makes sense... I sometimes think of that and then don't want to make it look like I want to get it done and over with... I guess a good balance of both worlds is what I should aim for in this situation.


If she isn't naked, then you probably shouldn't start groping her unless she has given some indication of interest. But I say crawling into bed naked is a green light to rock her world.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

strat_guy said:


> so she comes in bed undressed and lays there, she likes to have her back rubbed ect at first so I do that and start rubbing her back. I do that for like almost an hour and she still doesn't move


Ok, first, stop giving one-hour back rubs. That's submissive and NOT sexy. Do it long enough to show her you're taking care of her and then move on to other things.



> So I start kissing her back and neck hoping to get her to reciprocate... nothing so I assume she still wants me to rub her back so I continue...


Huh? Why would you assume that? You need to be taking charge. You are being too female, too puppy dog in this, ok?



> After another while she gets like annoyed and says "we may as well just do it because im not getting in the mood"


Because you've been doing it WAY too long! Instead of apologizing, you should have said Great! and started moving in for the kill.



> I told her that we could wait if she didnt feel it.


Stop doing that!



> She then gets annoyed with that saying I didn't really want her if I wasn't hard...


She has lost all respect for you because you are a Nice Guy. You disgust her now. She wants a man who will take her breath away, not take no for an answer, not give her back rubs to kiss up to her, and certainly not wait 1 or 2 hours to get to do it! You disgust her so much now that she has taken to verbally abusing you. Are you gonna take that?



> When I say "I love you" before going to sleep she says "im not so sure", so I asked her a few times why she said that and she comes up with "I don't know", so I say "well if you don't know, don't say it!", that was it for that night.


Oh, wow, you showed her! Come on, strat. You know you can't keep doing this. If she insults you, stop whining and just tell her you've had enough insults.



> I will stop if she acts like that again.


Well, that's a LITTLE bit of standing up to her. Not much. You have a lot to learn.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

strat_guy said:


> the reason I didn't stop was because i didn't want her to feel like I didn't desire her


It's not your job to make her feel anything. Your job is to SHOW her you desire her by your actions. Did I recommend the 52 Invitations book yet? You need to get it pronto.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Ok, first, stop giving one-hour back rubs. That's submissive and NOT sexy. Do it long enough to show her you're taking care of her and then move on to other things....QUOTE]
> 
> Thanks for the feedback!! As I read NMMNG I can see many of the Nice Guy traits even in this one message... I guess having help identifying what doesn't make sense from someone on the outside is a big plus so thank you to all who have taken the time to read my posts and replied... I hope I can eventually get out of this Nice Guy paradigm im in...


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> It's not your job to make her feel anything. Your job is to SHOW her you desire her by your actions. Did I recommend the 52 Invitations book yet? You need to get it pronto.


Never heard of it til now... will look into that one once NMMNG is done... thanks!!


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

yeah dude, let her lay there until you do just the right thing that sets her off, IF you actually discover what on earth that might be

shame on you for trying to make her feel good by doing things alot of women suggest in here to get your woman going. i find when that stuff doesnt work it is often suggested that you just "take her" and rock her world. if your just trying to "take her" and she is reluctent then you need to rub her feet and draw up a warm bath with candles.

so she comes to bed naked but doesnt allow you to build up and even tells you that she just isnt in the mood, i find that to be extremely confusing


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

strat_guy said:


> Never heard of it til now... will look into that one once NMMNG is done... thanks!!


 It's not that kind of book. It's a set of invitations - 26 for YOU to give to HER, and 26 for HER to give to YOU.

They are written that way; the ones you give her are for what a guy would do for rocking a girl's socks off. The one for her to give you are for a girl to pleasure a guy. 

One a week (in a perfect world, lol).

Anyway, it's an actual invitation/envelope. Each one is different. You pick an evening (morning, whatever) and you write that on the invitation along with the location. The invitation tells her where to go and when, and what - if anything - she needs to bring with her. Meanwhile you set up the date. For instance, one for the girls included telling him to bring a can of whipped cream. Meanwhile, she was to get a bunch of fruit, cut it up, and string it on a string that she wraps around her...something. He shows up and that's all she has on. His job is to use the whipped cream as he chooses on pieces of fruit he wants to bite off the string, until he runs out of fruit. By then, he should be ready to partake of other 'fruit,' kwim?

I think that if you were to step up your game and do some of these things they would intrigue her, make you more valuable in her eyes, and ramp up your manly factor. And you are definitely missing out on that.

http://www.amazon.com/52-Invitation...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1318020233&sr=1-1


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> so she comes to bed naked but doesnt allow you to build up and even tells you that she just isnt in the mood, i find that to be extremely confusing


 Actually, speaking as a woman, it was strat who blew it here. Hour-long backrub? Who does that except a masseuse? Come in the room, turn off the lights, turn on some music, rub some oil on her back for about five minutes, start rubbing elsewhere, slowly turn her over to rub more somewhere 'else,' and when she's getting into it, proceed. 

There shouldn't even be speaking going on.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> Actually, speaking as a woman, it was strat who blew it here. Hour-long backrub? Who does that except a masseuse? Come in the room, turn off the lights, turn on some music, rub some oil on her back for about five minutes, start rubbing elsewhere,


What happens when she says "No, just my back!" at this stage? Or if you then go back to her back, then re-escalate, she says "Are you deaf or stupid? I SAID just my back!"?



> slowly turn her over to rub more somewhere 'else,' and when she's getting into it, proceed.
> 
> There shouldn't even be speaking going on.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then you get off the bed, turn on the lights, turn off the music, put your clothes back on, and say 'I'm going out. I deserve better treatment than this, and I'm out of here.'

Then you leave and go hit the sports bar or call on some friends and put her out of your mind, and leave her there alone, wondering what just happened. 

That's a consequence. Something his wife has never experienced, IMO.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> Then you get off the bed, turn on the lights, turn off the music, put your clothes back on, and say 'I'm going out. I deserve better treatment than this, and I'm out of here.'
> 
> Then you leave and go hit the sports bar or call on some friends and put her out of your mind, and leave her there alone, wondering what just happened.
> 
> That's a consequence. Something his wife has never experienced, IMO.


So, a back massage is _never_ just a back massage? It's _always_ foreplay?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She was naked. It wasn't supposed to be just a back massage.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> She was naked. It wasn't supposed to be just a back massage.


She wants a back massage and doesn't want oil on her clothes.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why don't we ask strat; he was there. Was she inviting you for SF or not?


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

If she only wanted a back rub, she would have had panties on. She also would have mentioned it to him.

My wife plays this game sometimes where she says, "just a back rub". But 80% of the time she ends up rubbing something of mine. This is great but I find it confusing sometimes, when she says back rub only and when I try for more (because 20% of the time she wants more) I get slapped. 

I have to learn that when she says back rub, she means back rub, unless she starts something. She is allowed to change her mind. Because she is a woman.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

In my case it was a back rub with benefits... that's often how we start, she really enjoys it and I don't mind doign this either but when she just stays there for like an hour not responding it doens't really help me get into it either...

If she just wanted a back rub she would have come in the room dressed after her shower and asked me to rub her back but sometimes she'll trick me into thinking since she's dressed were not gonna do it but then she turns on like a light.. i don't mind these kind of games but when its mind games like my OP it drives me nuts...
I know the next time she acts like this I will be letting her know, trying to grow some NUTS and not being such a Nice Guy... this is however a tough concept to learn since i have been this way since I can remember.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> It's not that kind of book. It's a set of invitations - 26 for YOU to give to HER, and 26 for HER to give to YOU.
> 
> They are written that way; the ones you give her are for what a guy would do for rocking a girl's socks off. The one for her to give you are for a girl to pleasure a guy.
> 
> ...


That seems like a good thing to spice things up around here. .. that could be a good idea for a valentines gift between the two of us  i'll check it out, thanks!!


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Actually, speaking as a woman, it was strat who blew it here. Hour-long backrub? Who does that except a masseuse? Come in the room, turn off the lights, turn on some music, rub some oil on her back for about five minutes, start rubbing elsewhere, slowly turn her over to rub more somewhere 'else,' and when she's getting into it, proceed.
> 
> There shouldn't even be speaking going on.


yeah im too passive I know that and i have for years, i am trying to get better at this. what i am going to struggle with is not loosing the fact that I am a nice person and I don't want to become a jerk in the process!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Taking what you want doesn't make you a jerk. It makes you a man. DEMANDING what you want makes you a jerk.

Did you read the Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. book yet? I also recommend that you look at the website it comes from; maybe even sign up for one of their conferences. It's based exactly on men who have been too passive too long. It's bettermen.org.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Taking what you want doesn't make you a jerk. It makes you a man. DEMANDING what you want makes you a jerk.
> 
> Did you read the Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. book yet? I also recommend that you look at the website it comes from; maybe even sign up for one of their conferences. It's based exactly on men who have been too passive too long. It's bettermen.org.


I agree! I will try to finish NMMNG and then look up the NUTS book which I did take a quick look at before as it was suggested in my first post I beleive...
I am glad that you can see where Im coming from in wanting to take charge of my needs and myself but I don't want to end up being an overpowering idiot in the process so I need to keep that in check along the way... I am going to try and develop some kind of a plan to go by I think... but then again that may be just trying to overanalyze and control everything again....

I think I need a psycologist... was watching gene simmons and it appears to have helped him quite a bit in his life tough our lives are in no way similar, it has helped me see what the effects of having someone to talk to has...


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

turnera said:


> One a week (in a perfect world, lol).


(only) One a week . . . NOT a perfect world. :rofl:

Phew - you're on a roll on this thread!


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

strat_guy said:


> I agree! I will try to finish NMMNG and then look up the NUTS book which I did take a quick look at before as it was suggested in my first post I beleive...


With all this reading to do . . . you won't have time for anything in the bedroom.

Problem solved!


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

jayde said:


> With all this reading to do . . . you won't have time for anything in the bedroom.
> 
> Problem solved!


Yeah really, I don't usally read that much at home and most of this reading im doing at work... which in a way isn't good since I can't concentrate for long periods on what I am reading but at least it's giving me a once over what I need to start doing and not doing...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

jayde said:


> (only) One a week . . . NOT a perfect world. :rofl:
> 
> Phew - you're on a roll on this thread!


lol, jayde, I was talking about the invitations. That's why there are 52 of them - one for each week.

You can do whatever you want the rest of the week! ;0


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

turnera said:


> You can do whatever you want the rest of the week! ;0


Ahh . . .alrighty then : )


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> Taking what you want doesn't make you a jerk. It makes you a man. DEMANDING what you want makes you a jerk.
> 
> Did you read the Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. book yet? I also recommend that you look at the website it comes from; maybe even sign up for one of their conferences. It's based exactly on men who have been too passive too long. It's bettermen.org.


The difference between "demanding" and "taking what you want" (when it isn't being offered) is a bit too subtle for me...:scratchhead:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Taking what you want: Wife, it's been a long time since we went on a weekend trip. I packed a bag and made reservations, and I'll pick you up at home at 5:30. Pick out a swimsuit and some massage oil to bring!

Demanding what you want: I'm sick and tired of you turning me down. I expect to have sex with you tonight, or I'm gonna go find it somewhere else.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Taking what you want: Wife, it's been a long time since we went on a weekend trip. I packed a bag and made reservations, and I'll pick you up at home at 5:30. Pick out a swimsuit and some massage oil to bring!
> 
> Demanding what you want: I'm sick and tired of you turning me down. I expect to have sex with you tonight, or I'm gonna go find it somewhere else.


Good description of the two... thanks for the definition...


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> Taking what you want: Wife, it's been a long time since we went on a weekend trip. I packed a bag and made reservations, and I'll pick you up at home at 5:30. Pick out a swimsuit and some massage oil to bring!


"What did you do that for? I made other plans."
"Great! I can catch up on my reading!"
"That's nice dear"<goes back to doing whatever>
"Great, but don't expect sex - I just can't be bothered".
"I just invited my mother over"

The only thing that's getting taken is the p*ss. If it ain't on offer, you can't take it!

If she wants to, it'll happen without all the smoke and mirrors, if she doesn't, they won't make her want to.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> "What did you do that for? I made other plans."


Fine. I'm going without you. Maybe I'll meet someone there who wants to be with me.



> "Great! I can catch up on my reading!"


You can try, but I intend for us to be too busy. And the book just may end up falling out the window.



> "That's nice dear"<goes back to doing whatever>


Not going? Ok, have fun pulling the weeds. I'm off to have fun.



> "Great, but don't expect sex - I just can't be bothered".


Sorry to hear that. You'll be getting the divorce papers after I get back then. (won't THAT be a fun weekend for her?)



> "I just invited my mother over"


That's ok. I have her number. I'm calling her right now to tell her I'm taking her daughter on a weekend getaway.



> The only thing that's getting taken is the p*ss. If it ain't on offer, you can't take it!
> 
> If she wants to, it'll happen without all the smoke and mirrors, if she doesn't, they won't make her want to.


 I don't follow.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> .
> 
> 
> I don't follow.


If your wife wants to have sex with you, she'll have sex with you. If she doesn't want to, then taking her to some hotel won't make her. If it isn't being offered, you can't "take" it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's why you have to stop being a doormat and become someone who takes what he wants. Women want to be swept off their feet, have their breathe taken away, be surprised. If your wife stopped giving it, it's because of YOU.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> That's why you have to stop being a doormat and become someone who takes what he wants. *Women want to be swept off their feet, have their breathe taken away, be surprised*. If your wife stopped giving it, it's because of YOU.


I think the bolded bit is a sweeping generalisation.

Some wives, like mine, have sex with their husbands because they love them, like sex and think it's a really good fun thing to do together.

Some need the big gesture you describe, for any number of different reasons.

And some, again for any number of reasons just aren't interested. Whether it's because they think sex is ghastly / dirty / degrading / silly, apathy, lack of empathy, too many other things going on, too many other things that they prioritise, resentment, passive aggression (read some of what AFEH has to say on this) or whatever, they DON'T want to be swept off their feet or be surprised.

Some don't fit any of the above, but one size does not fit all.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

wifeofhusband said:


> I dare say she wanted you to be more assertive - but maybe not, she is not me. You remind me a bit of my husband - you take the gentle approach, you're very reverent, definitely a nice guy - but in bed to feel desired I want to see a bit of determination, strength and DESIRE. I want him to want me so much that he takes control and leads. Sometimes my husband doesn't get it when he wants it because I find his approach a turn off. Maybe next time try progressing the massage and see what happens?


thanks for the insight, that is something i will normally do but sometimes I start progressing and she just lays there with no response and thats an indicator to me that Im going to fast but then she gets annoyed... definitely mixed signals eh..


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

do you ladies who want to be lead or taken or even dominated in bed set this same tone in the rest of your life? if not i dare say you are contributing to your husbands lack of assertion or cautious approach.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

okeydokie said:


> do you ladies who want to be lead or taken or even dominated in bed set this same tone in the rest of your life? if not i dare say you are contributing to your husbands lack of assertion or cautious approach.


Thats a real good point... If all the W does all the time is being the dominator aside from the bed room it makes it hard for the H to change roles... 
although reading through the No More Mr Nice Guy book, the H should be the dominant figure (not a dictator), so if that was the case there would be no reason for this discussion I guess


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> I think the bolded bit is a sweeping generalisation.


Why do you keep arguing with a WOMAN about what a WOMAN wants?

Doesn't it say something that you are not getting the results you want?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> do you ladies who want to be lead or taken or even dominated in bed set this same tone in the rest of your life? if not i dare say you are contributing to your husbands lack of assertion or cautious approach.


Not really. I've spent 30 years NOT speaking up and saying what I want. But I still want him to be in charge in the bedroom. It's more of a primal thing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

strat_guy said:


> Thats a real good point... If all the W does all the time is being the dominator aside from the bed room it makes it hard for the H to change roles...


Well, first, why should it? Unless you are letting her actions destroy your self esteem. But that's on YOU, not her. 

And second, why do you allow her to dominate at all?


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Well, first, why should it? Unless you are letting her actions destroy your self esteem. But that's on YOU, not her.
> 
> And second, why do you allow her to dominate at all?


that's exactly it, she should not be dominating me so with changing that it should get rid of these anoying problems right


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yep. May get rid of her, too, as she may have chosen you because you were so easy to control. But who would want to be married to that (her)?


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> Why do you keep arguing with a WOMAN about what a WOMAN wants?


Because whilst you know what YOU want, as far as I am aware no one has appointed you the single representative empowered to speak on behalf of ALL women. When and if this is the case, let me know. I do not on any level question that you know what works for you. But you ain't everyone.



> Doesn't it say something that you are not getting the results you want?


:rofl: Ah, but I am! My wife and I have sex because we love each other, think sex is great fun and enjoy one another on many levels.

Neither of us has passive aggressiveness, deep-seated inhibitions or a need to have the other one tick a certain number of boxes in order to co-incide with some stereotype before we get going.

Sorry to disappoint you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> Because whilst you know what YOU want, as far as I am aware no one has appointed you the single representative empowered to speak on behalf of ALL women. When and if this is the case, let me know. I do not on any level question that you know what works for you. But you ain't everyone.


Hell of a lot closer to knowing what women want than YOU are. :scratchhead:



> :rofl: Ah, but I am! My wife and I have sex because we love each other, think sex is great fun and enjoy one another on many levels.
> 
> Neither of us has passive aggressiveness, deep-seated inhibitions or a need to have the other one tick a certain number of boxes in order to co-incide with some stereotype before we get going.
> 
> Sorry to disappoint you.


 Am I mistaking you for someone else who has been here asking for help with wife/sex issues?


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

turnera said:


> Hell of a lot closer to knowing what women want than YOU are. :scratchhead:


I definitely know what MY woman wants, and I know what a number of other women definitely seem to NOT want. I would hestitate to extrapolate either of these to all women, but I offer them for information and to provoke reasoned discussion of the variety of what's out there.




> Am I mistaking you for someone else who has been here asking for help with wife/sex issues?


Let me make it easy for you: no, I haven't asked for help with wife/sex issues.


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