# Bankrupt Marriage



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

So our money problems have finally gotten so extreme, I have realized I need to file for bankruptcy. I told my husband this a few weeks ago and he made very immature comments. He threatened to go sweep floors overnights at Walmart (in addition to his executive style day job). He won't even SHOP in a Walmart let alone go sweep the floors in one. So it was a childish threat. 

So here I am filing bankruptcy. Alone. I've suggested we get on the same page with the finances, but he hasn't tried to sit down with me at all. Then, I've gone to 2 bankruptcy meetings and he seems to care less. After I told him I felt alone and ignored after the first one... He made sure he called after the second one to ask how I was doing. I didn't answer right away and after we finally talked, he implied that he was nervous that I didn't pick up because he was "worried I did something bad to myself". I was SO angry that he would EVER suggest I would harm myself. I'm a mom and a Christian. And I recently started therapy again and he KNOWS I'm not going to commit suicide. 

Am I wrong for being livid about this? He couldn't even care enough to come to the meeting but then suggests I'm going to take my life if I don't pick up right away? 

How might you deal with this? I am the bread winner btw.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

You have to do what you have to do and if you have to do it alone, forge ahead. It doesn't sound like he's anywhere near on the same page as you.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Nope. Be livid.

Is it going to fix anything with your husband? Nope. He's who he is.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

But he says THIS is him being supportive! He called! He worried! 

In the meantime... I'm still angry and alone. Would you remain married to this kind of spouse? I mean the other side of it is that I'm so warped and used to doing things alone... What SHOULD I expect? 




A Bit Much said:


> Nope. Be livid.
> 
> Is it going to fix anything with your husband? Nope. He's who he is.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

questionme2 said:


> But he says THIS is him being supportive! He called! He worried!
> 
> In the meantime... I'm still angry and alone. Would you remain married to this kind of spouse? I mean the other side of it is that I'm so warped and used to doing things alone... What SHOULD I expect?
> 
> ...


Your husband sounds very aloof and insensitive. Would I stay married to that? NO. It's not a partnership. He's more like a dependant not an equal. 

Keep your expecations low if you stay. He's not a step up to the plate guy. That is and always has been YOUR job.


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

questionme,

What are you in counciling for now and what was it before?


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

I'm in counseling for this marriage problem and problems with my own self esteem. I have followed far too long and I'm trying to become a leader. My husband obviously doesn't like confrontation so I have spent a lot of time trying to bury my feelings and opinions. And it's left us bankrupt. It's as if everything is MY problem. I have to figure everything out. And we also have problems with sex. It's been awhile now.. But he tends to be very selfish there too. 

But we have a 6 year old. I hate to disrupt his life. But my husband just doesn't get it. It's our anniversary this weekend. And he knows I am filing for bankruptcy. But I found out he booked a sitter for an overnight at a pricey resort. He just doesn't GET it! 




Toffer said:


> questionme,
> 
> What are you in counciling for now and what was it before?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ShawnD (Apr 2, 2012)

questionme2 said:


> But we have a 6 year old. I hate to disrupt his life. But my husband just doesn't get it. It's our anniversary this weekend. And he knows I am filing for bankruptcy. But I found out he booked a sitter for an overnight at a pricey resort. He just doesn't GET it!


Does he or any of his relatives have bipolar disorder? Is he on any prescription or illegal drugs?

Mania:


> To be classed as a manic episode, while the disturbed mood is present at least three (or four if only irritability is present) of the following must have been consistently prominent: grand or extravagant style, or expanded self-esteem; reduced need of sleep (e.g. three hours may be sufficient); talks more often and feels the urge to talk longer; ideas flit through the mind in quick succession, or thoughts race and preoccupy the person; over indulgence in enjoyable behaviors with high risk of a negative outcome (e.g., extravagant shopping, sexual adventures or improbable commercial schemes).[11]
> 
> The World Health Organization's classification system defines a manic episode as one where mood is higher than the person's situation warrants and may vary from relaxed high spirits to barely controllable exuberance, accompanied by hyperactivity, a compulsion to speak, a reduced sleep requirement, difficulty sustaining attention and, often, increased distractability. Frequently, confidence and self-esteem are excessively enlarged, and grand, extravagant ideas are expressed. Behavior that is out of character and risky, foolish or inappropriate may result from a loss of normal social restraint.[12]
> 
> ...


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

No. No bi polar history. He does not and has never done drugs. 






ShawnD said:


> Does he or any of his relatives have bipolar disorder? Is he on any prescription or illegal drugs?
> 
> Mania:


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I don't think he has a mental illness. He's just a very self centered individual.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

But insinuating that I would harm myself is just infuriating considering he never even bothered to pick up the phone or attend the first meeting with me. I feel like he's playing head games with me! 







A Bit Much said:


> I don't think he has a mental illness. He's just a very self centered individual.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

questionme2 said:


> But insinuating that I would harm myself is just infuriating considering he never even bothered to pick up the phone or attend the first meeting with me. I feel like he's playing head games with me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He may think because you're going to counseling you're considering suicide. Some people only equate therapy with being depressed and in that state of mind. Maybe his mind isn't open enough to consider the true reason you're going and this is what he came up with.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

No. I've been going to therapy for years on and off and I told him it was because of marital issues and asked him to come too. He hasn't ... Yet. 



A Bit Much said:


> He may think because you're going to counseling you're considering suicide. Some people only equate therapy with being depressed and in that state of mind. Maybe his mind isn't open enough to consider the true reason you're going and this is what he came up with.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Sorry you are having to go through all of this alone. I'm having to also. My estranged husband blew all of our money on women, wine, travel, and only God knows what else. We have been separated 4 1/2 years. I tried to get him to file for bankruptcy as a couple to save some of the assets nearly two years ago. He showed up to a couple of the meetings (attorney/client). That's about it. He never would turn in his portion of the paperwork. Needless to say, the bankruptcy attorney dismissed us.

After everything became unbearable, I filed for bankruptcy as an individual. And I did all of it without an attorney. Now my estranged husband thinks I should help him file (so he won't have to get an attorney).:scratchhead:

So we file for bankruptcy.... there's still a very big problem. Our spouses have a spending problem and live in denial. What are you going to do once your bankruptcy is discharged? Won't you be right back there? I know I won't because our finances are completely separate. What steps will you take? I honestly don't think you've gotten angry enough yet!


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your issues 827Aug. Yikes. I feel for you! Are you both still living together?

Yes you are right. Not much will change and I'm probably not nearly mad enough. It's his 40th bday this weekend and I'm currently planning a day for him. What is wrong with me?



827Aug said:


> Sorry you are having to go through all of this alone. I'm having to also. My estranged husband blew all of our money on women, wine, travel, and only God knows what else. We have been separated 4 1/2 years. I tried to get him to file for bankruptcy as a couple to save some of the assets nearly two years ago. He showed up to a couple of the meetings (attorney/client). That's about it. He never would turn in his portion of the paperwork. Needless to say, the bankruptcy attorney dismissed us.
> 
> After everything became unbearable, I filed for bankruptcy as an individual. And I did all of it without an attorney. Now my estranged husband thinks I should help him file (so he won't have to get an attorney).:scratchhead:
> 
> So we file for bankruptcy.... there's still a very big problem. Our spouses have a spending problem and live in denial. What are you going to do once your bankruptcy is discharged? Won't you be right back there? I know I won't because our finances are completely separate. What steps will you take? I honestly don't think you've gotten angry enough yet!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

I don't know anything about your marriage, so I'm throwing this out there. Does he feel you got yourself into bad financial shape by overspending or underearning?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

No. I'm the breadwinner. He hasn't helped cut back when I've asked. So... No. This one should be more about him helping and apologizing. 




tennisstar said:


> I don't know anything about your marriage, so I'm throwing this out there. Does he feel you got yourself into bad financial shape by overspending or underearning?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rj700 (Jun 22, 2012)

If you are the breadwinner, where/how does he get money? If he has access to the bank account, get one in your name only. If he has credit cards, take them away - your name only.

Obviously he is not going to help, so you have to restrict his ability to hurt (financially). Whether you want to be or not, you are in charge. This may sound harsh, but I'll just put it out there. You said he won't help cut back on things/expenses. Well it sounds like he is one big expense. What does he bring to the table/family/relationship?


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

Well we did stop the excessive spending but the damage was already done. And I had to take a paycut and it is just all catching up with us. It's hard because I make a good living but I can't even buy myself something nice at the store because I'm trying to pay for the damage of the past.

After the bankruptcy, and after the bills are gone... I feel like our lifestyle is still extravagant. I suggested moving... Giving up my car in the bankruptcy and using cash to buy an older one. He disagreed with all of that saying I will be making our son move too much. He's 6 and just started first grade and he has moved a lot. But I just want to be stable down the road. I want to stop the vicious cycle. I understand where he's coming from... But I am looking at the big picture. No longer seeing things month to month. He's almost 40. We have about 40k combined for retirement. That's it. We can't keep living like this ... In my opinion. 



rj700 said:


> If you are the breadwinner, where/how does he get money? If he has access to the bank account, get one in your name only. If he has credit cards, take them away - your name only.
> 
> Obviously he is not going to help, so you have to restrict his ability to hurt (financially). Whether you want to be or not, you are in charge. This may sound harsh, but I'll just put it out there. You said he won't help cut back on things/expenses. Well it sounds like he is one big expense. What does he bring to the table/family/relationship?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rj700 (Jun 22, 2012)

It sounds like you are pretty level headed. Though I haven't been there myself, I know bankruptcy is tough, and often times demoralizing. You made suggestions about ways to cut back, but he disagreed. So what alternatives did he suggest? If he can't come up with reasonable ways to cut back and get back on top, you already know you can't continue as is. So what's left?

Maybe let him take that night job at walmart. I'm only half joking.


----------



## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

Curious, if you have dual incomes (you said he had a white collar job) what specifically is causing you to go bankrupt? Is it simply your husbands over spending? Or are you stretched thin in other areas, or both?


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

questionme2 said:


> Sorry to hear about your issues 827Aug. Yikes. I feel for you! Are you both still living together?
> 
> Yes you are right. Not much will change and I'm probably not nearly mad enough. It's his 40th bday this weekend and I'm currently planning a day for him. What is wrong with me?
> 
> ...


No, we do not live together. We've been separated for 4 1/2 years. Furthermore, we recently lost our house. I'm very grateful my family took us in (me, two daughters, one dog, and 4 cats). He, however, is still living in his beach house (in a gated community). And he is approximately $10K behind on child support and alimony this year. He makes plenty of money, but his lifestyle is over the top. 

Please take steps now to get your husband's lifestyle to match your budget. I was nice to my husband for way too long. Then, when I did put my foot down, he simply went underground with his spending. That's something you need to watch out for also. Never think things can't get any worse than they already are. They can!

Hope you can gain your confidence and self-esteem to do what you must do. I certainly wish you the best with the daunting task before you.


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Moving doesn't damage a kid. Having an unstable and unpredictable household does. Mommy is stable, daddy is not. Mommy is responsible, daddy is not. Mommy is a good provider, daddy is not. Mommy can do paperwork and math and balance a checkbook. Daddy cannot. I really don't see how divorcing this non-husband freeloader is going to damage your child. Honestly. People move all the time. We evolved from nomads. The human brain is built to adapt to all sorts of situations. Household stability is way more important in action than in theory. Marriage is a theory that doesn't hold up to reality in your child's case. He will learn a lot from observing how Mom can manage life for herself and how much things change after she is fully in charge of her household. Likewise, he will see the kind of household dad has. Maybe being on his own will inspire Dad to be self-responsible. Right now he doesn't have to, like his kid he has a Mommy to do that. He doesn't need to. He's probably acting like you would suicide to get you all nerved up and defensive about going to therapy. He knows if you continue with therapy you will eventually see the writing on the wall. Of course he doesn't want that. He will lose his freeloader status. He may have made reservations, but you can cancel them. You can refuse to go. Big deal, what's he going to do, sit in a corner and mope? Maybe suggest if he wants to go to a resort, he sign on with the room cleaning service or be a bellhop, since he's above the whole Wal-mart scene. Sack some money aside for yourself, and while you're filing for bankruptcy, file for divorce as well. Does your H parent at all? Does he work? What was his life like prior to you two getting married? Was there ever a time when he was a breadwinner? Honestly, he doesn't really sound as though he is being honest about anything. I just wonder how much you knew about him prior to marriage...


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

You know he is a good parent when he's one on one. But he does not act responsibly when it comes to making sure things are done for his care. He has definitely improved in this area after we went to therapy last year. 

We got married young. He was 26. I was 24. He worked hard but I now know his parents helped him substantially at that time. Also he worked in my city when I met him but his parents lived 2 hours away. I now know for a good portion of time he lived several days a week at a girls house he was dating. He said he was with her more for convenience since he didn't have to drive home every night to his parents house 2 hours away. 

Then when we got engaged he insisted on us living together despite my religious beliefs. And that's basically where we began things. 

He is so oblivious to all of this. Completely oblivious. And I don't know why I feel bad about canceling plans. I just do. I guess I keep having hope that time with him will make me feel closer to him again. But that's probably not healthy. 





Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Moving doesn't damage a kid. Having an unstable and unpredictable household does. Mommy is stable, daddy is not. Mommy is responsible, daddy is not. Mommy is a good provider, daddy is not. Mommy can do paperwork and math and balance a checkbook. Daddy cannot. I really don't see how divorcing this non-husband freeloader is going to damage your child. Honestly. People move all the time. We evolved from nomads. The human brain is built to adapt to all sorts of situations. Household stability is way more important in action than in theory. Marriage is a theory that doesn't hold up to reality in your child's case. He will learn a lot from observing how Mom can manage life for herself and how much things change after she is fully in charge of her household. Likewise, he will see the kind of household dad has. Maybe being on his own will inspire Dad to be self-responsible. Right now he doesn't have to, like his kid he has a Mommy to do that. He doesn't need to. He's probably acting like you would suicide to get you all nerved up and defensive about going to therapy. He knows if you continue with therapy you will eventually see the writing on the wall. Of course he doesn't want that. He will lose his freeloader status. He may have made reservations, but you can cancel them. You can refuse to go. Big deal, what's he going to do, sit in a corner and mope? Maybe suggest if he wants to go to a resort, he sign on with the room cleaning service or be a bellhop, since he's above the whole Wal-mart scene. Sack some money aside for yourself, and while you're filing for bankruptcy, file for divorce as well. Does your H parent at all? Does he work? What was his life like prior to you two getting married? Was there ever a time when he was a breadwinner? Honestly, he doesn't really sound as though he is being honest about anything. I just wonder how much you knew about him prior to marriage...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

He sounds VERY SELFISH - are you sure he doesn't have a personality disorder - narcissism? If he does, he's NOT going to change. Things will continue to go DOWNHILL until there IS no way out of the mess you're in.

He overspends even KNOWING the financial mess you're in. He INSISTS you live together even knowing it goes against your religion. He doesn't really seem to CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS (and he never has) as long as HE'S getting what HE WANTS.

I think you should make a list of the pros/cons of remaining married to him. It might help you decide if this is a relationship worth saving.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

I went to therapy tonight and the therapist brought up these very same points. He honed in on the fact that I've basically handled every difficult problem in our marriage... And my husband hasn't NEEDED to worry because he knows I will never let our family fall too far. 

Here's my question: how could I find out if my husband truly loves me and would have my back in the toughest of times? 

I thought about telling him that I am worried I'm going to lose my job... Or I need to go to take a few months off etc. I just wish I could "test" him to see If anything has changed since he went thru done therapy last year. 

Is it a marriage worth hanging on to?




SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> He sounds VERY SELFISH - are you sure he doesn't have a personality disorder - narcissism? If he does, he's NOT going to change. Things will continue to go DOWNHILL until there IS no way out of the mess you're in.
> 
> He overspends even KNOWING the financial mess you're in. He INSISTS you live together even knowing it goes against your religion. He doesn't really seem to CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS (and he never has) as long as HE'S getting what HE WANTS.
> 
> I think you should make a list of the pros/cons of remaining married to him. It might help you decide if this is a relationship worth saving.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

questionme2 said:


> I went to therapy tonight and the therapist brought up these very same points. He honed in on the fact that I've basically handled every difficult problem in our marriage... And my husband hasn't NEEDED to worry because he knows I will never let our family fall too far.
> 
> Here's my question: how could I find out if my husband truly loves me and would have my back in the toughest of times?
> 
> ...


IMO you have had the toughest times already and where is he? How much tougher would times have to get before you see him for who he is? At any point in your relationship has he ever stepped up? He can't do the easy stuff, he's shown you that. Harder times than now won't bring out Superman. He's not that guy.


----------



## Carisma (Aug 24, 2012)

If you are not both on the same page filing BK and you plan to continue to be together, the BK is not going to help you at all! My husband got laid off of a high paying job and we lost our insurance at the same time my son developed significant medial problems. We ended up VERY far in debt, plus we were not restricting our lifestyle enough to meet the very decreased income he was able to get at that time. We ended up filing BK about 2 years ago but we did it together, on the same page etc. you need to talk to an attorney and decide if you are going to stay with him because continuing ot use credit cards while you file for BK can be considered fraud and you can face significant penalties to the point of being denied your BK. Don't take risks with this. They go through bankruptcies with a fine toothed comb now. If it is like our judge they will ask about your cars, your house, your vacations, your future plans for vacations, your retirement accounts, your savings accounts, your possessions from furniture to clothing. I cannot imagine you it could be done individually and what good that would do for a family's overall finances.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He insinuated you would hurt yourself because he is ASHAMED of himself for not supporting his family and, just like he did when he was 7, he shifted the blame off of him and onto you. Don't read too much into it. He is unenlightened.

The next time he offers to go sweep floors, telll him 'Great! About time! I'll give you the bank account number so you can have it direct-deposited.'


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

questionme2 said:


> Is it a marriage worth hanging on to?


Not at this point. But that's not your problem right now. Do what you need to do. Stop meeting his needs. Let him start meeting yours. Stop enabling him.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

He is NOT that guy. That's true. The thing is... I married him. Is it my job to accept that I'm going to have to handle everything from now on to make sure it is done right? I think my problem is two fold. I've screwed up by trusting him in the past. Looking to him for an opinion and going with the flow. BUT when I realize that I can't TRUST him... In that sense..my image of him is tarnished. Terribly. 

He knows I'm going to my 3rd bankruptcy meeting today. I kindly told him that I'd like to try to do something inexpensive for our anniversary as opposed to his surprise overnight trip. He reluctantly agreed. But do you know what he had planned? A dinner/dancing cruise that was 300.00 and a night at a 250.00 hotel. Great of we could afford it... But I am filing BK! How in the world does he not understand that this isn't going to be OK?!?!





A Bit Much said:


> IMO you have had the toughest times already and where is he? How much tougher would times have to get before you see him for who he is? At any point in your relationship has he ever stepped up? He can't do the easy stuff, he's shown you that. Harder times than now won't bring out Superman. He's not that guy.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

questionme2 said:


> I *kindly* told him that I'd* like to try* to do something inexpensive for our anniversary as opposed to his surprise overnight trip.


And that, right there, is the KEY to you enabling him.

"I expect you to man up and lead this family and that includes financially. If you won't or can't do that, I'll have to continue doing it on my own, and I don't need you around to do that. Either man up or get out."


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

questionme2 said:


> He is NOT that guy. That's true. The thing is... I married him. Is it my job to accept that I'm going to have to handle everything from now on to make sure it is done right? I think my problem is two fold. I've screwed up by trusting him in the past. Looking to him for an opinion and going with the flow. BUT when I realize that I can't TRUST him... In that sense..my image of him is tarnished. Terribly.
> 
> He knows I'm going to my 3rd bankruptcy meeting today. I kindly told him that I'd like to try to do something inexpensive for our anniversary as opposed to his surprise overnight trip. He reluctantly agreed. But do you know what he had planned? A dinner/dancing cruise that was 300.00 and a night at a 250.00 hotel. Great of we could afford it... But I am filing BK! How in the world does he not understand that this isn't going to be OK?!?!
> 
> ...


You give him the access. This is your fault IMO, not his. He's irresponsible and has been all this time, yet you still give him the access to continue.

You want to make a statement? You want to save $? Call every place he booked and cancel it right now. You can't afford it. Tell him tomorrow its all been cancelled. Don't apologize. Why would you? Stay home and do something else.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

Well, the problem is he doesn't deal with confrontation well. So I have learned to walk on egg shells. Even though I said it kindly... He agreed to do his plan another time. But had I said it the way you suggested... It would have turned into world war 3. 

This has ALL been cancelled now. 




turnera said:


> And that, right there, is the KEY to you enabling him.
> 
> "I expect you to man up and lead this family and that includes financially. If you won't or can't do that, I'll have to continue doing it on my own, and I don't need you around to do that. Either man up or get out."


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

questionme2 said:


> Well, the problem is he doesn't deal with confrontation well.


So what?

Again, enabling.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

questionme2 said:


> But had I said it the way you suggested... It would have turned into world war 3.


questionme2, you are in bankruptcy. Because you wouldn't GO to WWIII. Because you DID walk on eggshells, and gave him access to money, and tried to ask nicely.

You have trusted him and he has trampled on your trust. And yet you still worry about upsetting him.

Why is that?


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

You all should moonlight as therapists . My therapist asked me the same question last night. The answer is I don't want the uncomfortable tension. I'm scared of being uncomfortable.... I really don't know why that is. Essentially I am always scared of people being mad at me. And I don't know why... I'm working on the answer. But that is how my husband has controlled me all this time. 




turnera said:


> questionme2, you are in bankruptcy. Because you wouldn't GO to WWIII. Because you DID walk on eggshells, and gave him access to money, and tried to ask nicely.
> 
> You have trusted him and he has trampled on your trust. And yet you still worry about upsetting him.
> 
> Why is that?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

questionme2 said:


> You all should moonlight as therapists . My therapist asked me the same question last night. The answer is I don't want the uncomfortable tension. I'm scared of being uncomfortable.... I really don't know why that is. Essentially I am always scared of people being mad at me. And I don't know why... I'm working on the answer. But that is how my husband has controlled me all this time.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So for the tradeoff of not having uncomfortable tension, you compromise your health and blood pressure and peace of mind. Uncomfortable tension is short term. Financial ruin is long term. And that's just ONE problem you have with this man... finances.


----------



## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

questionme2 said:


> You all should moonlight as therapists . My therapist asked me the same question last night. The answer is I don't want the uncomfortable tension. I'm scared of being uncomfortable.... I really don't know why that is. Essentially I am always scared of people being mad at me. And I don't know why... I'm working on the answer. But that is how my husband has controlled me all this time.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would call a severe financial problem uncomfortable tension. 
He seems content to let you bear the burden.


----------



## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

I have read some of your other posts. Looks like you got the switch and bait the men normally get. 

How does your husband contribute to the relationship? Doing the bare minimum so he does not get thrown out? Forced to counseling rather then wanting to actually be a loving partner? Does he actively try to make you happy or just put on a show to appear like he is?

Looks like you have been dealing with a selfish partner for a long time. Does he love you or is he just scared to stand on his own two feet? Can he even admit to himself these things? Has he ever stood on his own two feet in his lifetime?


Why did you have a child with this guy? Did you think a child might bring the two of you closer? Did that work? Down the road when the kid is out of the home on his own do you see yourself with this guy?

What is keeping you from moving on? The child? I see you say that you are religious. Is that why you sticking it out? Does he do things to cause you to fall away from your religion? Have you explained these things to your pastor? Do you still love him after all this time or is he more like a friend?

It is great you are getting help. When it is time to leave I can not say, I struggle with that myself. From your posts though it looks like the same old over and over again? Started in your 20's and now getting close to 40?

For now lock down your own bank account. Someday your kid is going to need college money. Let alone the holiday season approaching quickly.


Find the help you need, multiple sources including your religious leaders if that is important to you. Perhaps things will look clearer. I do not think God intended marriage to be a constant burden. Tough times yes, but not a one way street.

Learn to feel good at whatever decision you come up with. Get past those hang ups that are holding you back from happiness. 

I apologize if I pegged the situation wrong. Do not let it get to you until you develop an eye twitch. I hope you can work things out with him and have a happy marriage. But you can not change somebody that does not want to change. Sometimes things go on for so long that any change is hard, just a miserable status quo.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

questionme2 said:


> You all should moonlight as therapists . My therapist asked me the same question last night. The answer is I don't want the uncomfortable tension. I'm scared of being uncomfortable.... I really don't know why that is. Essentially I am always scared of people being mad at me. And I don't know why... I'm working on the answer. But that is how my husband has controlled me all this time.


I'm dealing with the exact same thing. Only I've been doing it for more than 30 years. So let me be the person who warns you - if you don't stop it now, you'll likely go through the depression, the thoughts of suicide, the wasted years not 'being there' for your kids, and a life wasted on a man who won't step up. 

Because I didn't stand up when I should have, I now get to try to get us out of $100,000 of debt. Don't be like me.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

Miserable status quo. You are right. Yes you have me pegged well. He does the bare minimum until I get off of his back. Forced to counseling and then he stops the moment I start to feel OK again. 
The pressure is off. Honestly, for the longest time I didn't see him for what/who he is. I looked to him and his judgement like it was gold. It wasn't until things started going awry... That I finally realized that he is not who I made him out to be. 

I think he truly loves me in his own way but he's just selfish. That's how he is.. For better or worse. If I told him I wanted to stay home with our son and work part time... He would flip out. He could not handle the responsibility. He makes 75k a year but we live in one of the most expensive cities in the country. So it's like making 45k in Texas where we used to live. You can't support a family on that but he has no gumption to try and make more or provide more. Giving him business ideas is infuriating because he had a great client and he gave them to a friend of his... He won't stretch himself. 

And then I think.. It's not fair to expect him to provide for his family 100 percent because he's never been asked to. It's always been on me. Is it fair for me to have a change of heart and cut my salary drastically ... And find happiness? He's lived all these years doing what he LOVES no matter the smaller pay... But I'm required to push all my limits and bring in all that I can to provide for my family... Even though I'm feeling tortured? 



CrazyGuy said:


> I have read some of your other posts. Looks like you got the switch and bait the men normally get.
> 
> How does your husband contribute to the relationship? Doing the bare minimum so he does not get thrown out? Forced to counseling rather then wanting to actually be a loving partner? Does he actively try to make you happy or just put on a show to appear like he is?
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Carisma said:


> you need to talk to an attorney and decide if you are going to stay with him because continuing ot use credit cards while you file for BK can be considered fraud and you can face significant penalties to the point of being denied your BK.


Not to worry credit cards get declined the minute the bankruptcy stay goes into effect. I didn't owe the credit card company anything, and therefore, did not include them on the list of creditors. Still, it was gone on Day 1. It's going to hit OP's husband really hard when he has to pay cash for everything. That will discourage some of his spending tendencies.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

Actually he won't be impacted on his own... Much at all because he isn't filing. All of his credit cards are fine. But we will see how long that lasts... Since I will no longer be picking up the tab. 

Plus the attorney said the trustee wouldn't allow our large lease payment and he wants us (me) to move. My husband is extremely upset about this... Says we aren't/can't move. 





827Aug said:


> Not to worry credit cards get declined the minute the bankruptcy stay goes into effect. I didn't owe the credit card company anything, and therefore, did not include them on the list of creditors. Still, it was gone on Day 1. It's going to hit OP's husband really hard when he has to pay cash for everything. That will discourage some of his spending tendencies.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

questionme2 said:


> Actually he won't be impacted on his own... Much at all because he isn't filing. All of his credit cards are fine. But we will see how long that lasts... Since I will no longer be picking up the tab.
> 
> Plus the attorney said the trustee wouldn't allow our large lease payment and he wants us (me) to move. My husband is extremely upset about this... Says we aren't/can't move.
> 
> ...


So his credit cards are solely in his name? If they are joint, he will feel the impact.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

Yes! Unfortunately my husband has never done anything! He always had ME do things. He even picked out my engagement ring and took me to the store and when I loved it... Told me he couldn't afford it and asked me to take credit for the rest! And I did it! I'm terribly to blame for things like this... I just always took action.. Bought things.. Did things. And now I'm left holding the bag. 




827Aug said:


> So his credit cards are solely in his name? If they are joint, he will feel the impact.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Bet you'll never do that again, huh? lol

You realize, right, that you set the standard, you lowered the bar, that day you took out credit to buy your own ring?

You taught him how to treat you - poorly.


----------



## Carisma (Aug 24, 2012)

questionme2 said:


> Yes! Unfortunately my husband has never done anything! He always had ME do things. He even picked out my engagement ring and took me to the store and when I loved it... Told me he couldn't afford it and asked me to take credit for the rest! And I did it! I'm terribly to blame for things like this... I just always took action.. Bought things.. Did things. And now I'm left holding the bag.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If he does nothing to contribute, has never supported the family financially, lets you make all the decisions, and you are capable of supporting your child on you own, since it sounds like you have been all along, why prolong the misery? I am just really curious. I can imagine staying with someone like this if he paid all the bills and you couldn't support yourself, but it sounds like he is just a drain. Why not go through the BK, get your child and yourself away from him, and start over with healthy finances, living on cash only, and making a future for you and your child?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Look at it this way. By allowing him to mooch off of you, you are HURTING him by not expecting him to stand up and be a 'man.' And the longer he is not a 'man,' the more he hates himself. And the more he hates himself, the worse he becomes as a husband and father. 

So by you allowing him to stay there, you are hurting everyone.

Kick him out, let him experience life without your money, and HAVE to figure out how to earn a living. 

Then, after he's drug himself up out of the ditch and become a viable person, you two might have a chance together.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

He does make a decent living but it has never been enough to support us on his own. He does work hard at his job and has won many awards. 

I just don't think he would ever be willing to do MORE than this job. That's the issue. And as my therapist said... Maybe he needs to fall on his face. The problem is he NEVER seems to take ANY risks on his own... He has always had me to do it. If/when I stop... I know he will remain the same way. He will not fall because he won't jump on his own... Not a risk taker. 




turnera said:


> Look at it this way. By allowing him to mooch off of you, you are HURTING him by not expecting him to stand up and be a 'man.' And the longer he is not a 'man,' the more he hates himself. And the more he hates himself, the worse he becomes as a husband and father.
> 
> So by you allowing him to stay there, you are hurting everyone.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So you have to decide if you can live with that.

My DD22 has only had one boyfriend in 3+ years of college. She is very picky and fine being single, until the right guy shows up. He must be: NOT a jock (expects her to sit around while he has his fun), NOT an addict (unstable), NOT a bible-thumper (new development - hates people who think they are better than her), NOT a guitar player (who expects her to sit there and moon over him playing his guitar), and must be working toward a career that will challenge him. Not for money but for brains; she won't settle for a guy who's willing to just come home and sit down and watch tv all night, she wants someone who's going to go out hiking or read books or get a higher degree. In other words, she is NOT willing to carry him.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

questionme2 said:


> And as my therapist said... Maybe he needs to fall on his face.


And isn't that what we've all been telling you, too? Not to deny your love for him, but you sound a bit codependent. 

Are you afraid that, if you step back and let him fall, he'll just walk away? Because he always takes the easy way out? And if you make it hard to keep you, he'll just choose easy and go away?

If so, is that all you're worth? Keep your man by being easy to keep?


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

I really can't describe it, but I don't think he could fail while married to me. I an very independent in the way that I function now, so I just work to make money for the family. He doesn't really buy anything on his own for himself etc. he doesn't do anything... Ever. He has no friends. THe father of one of our son's friends has asked him to hang out several times and he tells him no every time (unless it's a kid play date). I kept encouraging him to go and he has always refused. 

He stays at home... Goes to work ... And then watches tv or does stuff around the house. He is just a very minimal risk taker. 

The ONLY way he might feel uncomfortable is if he was without his family or living on his own paycheck. But is that fair? Should he essentially be punished because I make more? History would say yes.. But if you don't know the situation... On face value... That sounds pretty cruel. 

Btw... Good for your daughter!!!! You raised her right!!!



turnera said:


> And isn't that what we've all been telling you, too? Not to deny your love for him, but you sound a bit codependent.
> 
> Are you afraid that, if you step back and let him fall, he'll just walk away? Because he always takes the easy way out? And if you make it hard to keep you, he'll just choose easy and go away?
> 
> If so, is that all you're worth? Keep your man by being easy to keep?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's what I mean, though. You married a dud. No offense. But you describe him thus. Content to wake up every day, do his job, come home and coast. While you keep the family going.

That's fine, IF you personally are fine with it.

DD22 would NEVER accept a man who lived like that, but that's just her. So what WILL you accept in a partner? I'm not telling you to divorce him but to search yourself and see what it is YOU want out of life. 

When you married, what were your expectations? Dreams? Are you getting them? Or did he marry you for an easy way out, as is his nature, and then just settle into the life he expected, and only do enough to keep you from leaving him?

This is a good time for you to step back and see if this is really what you wanted, or deserve. Only you can answer that.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

You are absolutely right! You know, I grew up riding horses. We didn't have a lot of money but riding and showing horses was my passion. When I went off to college (I still have student loans) I had to sell my horse and my main goal was to be successful enough to have a horse again. 13 years later... I've made more money than I could have ever predicted and I've never had a horse. I am instead filing for bankruptcy! It's not that my husband ever said "no" but he always started making me feel bad every time I came close to getting back into riding. 

I took him to a horse show a few times to try and help him understand what it was that I loved so much and he was miserable. Didn't like the smell... Stared at his phone... Just found it awful, I suppose. 

So what is it that "I" want? I want to ride again... It's what truly made me happy. 





turnera said:


> That's what I mean, though. You married a dud. No offense. But you describe him thus. Content to wake up every day, do his job, come home and coast. While you keep the family going.
> 
> That's fine, IF you personally are fine with it.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Forgive if I'm wrong but it seems to me that you shelter him from reality. When consequences come you step in front and take the splatter and none touches him. 
Again, I am only going by what I have read in this thread.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

Well, when I ask him to take the reins so to speak... He will walk away. If he's at work...and there's a crisis with child care... He will suddenly become unavailable. And I won't teach him a lesson... At our child's expense... So yes, I will save the situation instead of leaving our son in a lurch because his dad is "too busy". That is true... But, I don't feel like I'm sheltering him. I asked him to go to the first bankruptcy meeting and he told me he had to work. Basically that's his excuse for everything. 




joe kidd said:


> Forgive if I'm wrong but it seems to me that you shelter him from reality. When consequences come you step in front and take the splatter and none touches him.
> Again, I am only going by what I have read in this thread.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

questionme2 said:


> So what is it that "I" want? I want to ride again... It's what truly made me happy.


Well, then, you know your answer.

You only get one life, qm. Make it count.

Start making all choices toward achieving what you want. You've spent 13 years doing what it takes to make HIM happy. Now it's your turn. ALL choices, toward achieving what YOU want. Sell the house, sell the furniture you don't want, sell whatever, get out of your debt, and start working back up to the horse.

He can either come along for the ride (groan), or he'll end up along the side of the road.


----------



## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

questionme2 said:


> Well, when I ask him to take the reins so to speak... He will walk away. If he's at work...and there's a crisis with child care... He will suddenly become unavailable. And I won't teach him a lesson... At our child's expense... So yes, I will save the situation instead of leaving our son in a lurch because his dad is "too busy". That is true... But, I don't feel like I'm sheltering him. I asked him to go to the first bankruptcy meeting and he told me he had to work. Basically that's his excuse for everything.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No I can see not wanting to make your son suffer to teach him a lesson. None of my business but are you going to separate your finances after bankruptcy?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

qm, stop ASKING him. Move forward in a way that does not require his participation and make all decisions that favor YOU. He can be a hanger on while you get what you want, or he can disappear. That's his choice. Stop including him in the process.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

He had the day off of work yesterday and we both picked our son up from school. Last night during dinner he told me that he had a jealous feeling toward all the parents picking up their children and that he couldn't help but want to be that parent..."working from home" and able to pick up their kids. I got the impression he thinks his 9-5 job isn't satisfactory... And he wants to "work from home". I didn't even ask... What he might do???? But you can see his brain is not focused on working extra to make our family financially stable for the decades to come! 





turnera said:


> qm, stop ASKING him. Move forward in a way that does not require his participation and make all decisions that favor YOU. He can be a hanger on while you get what you want, or he can disappear. That's his choice. Stop including him in the process.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sounds to me like he's priming you because he's about to quit his job.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

No... No. He isn't THAT bad. He wouldn't quit. He was having a hard time when he first started and he made that type of threat and I told him he absolutely could not quit. He said he knew that... He was just upset with his situation but that he would never do that. 

But I will quiz him a bit more about that today..., 





turnera said:


> Sounds to me like he's priming you because he's about to quit his job.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Christians commit suicide all the time.


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Wish you were closer. I could at least help you out with the horse dream. I have 7 or 8 very nice pasture ornaments just going to waste. Although they are well trained show horses, no one will buy them. Unfortunately, the bankruptcy trustee didn't want them either. I dread feeding them this winter.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

827, could you set up a charity and look for grants to let disadvantaged kids ride them or something like that?


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

turnera said:


> 827, could you set up a charity and look for grants to let disadvantaged kids ride them or something like that?


I honestly wouldn't know where to start on that one. In addition, my family isn't going to allow others out here riding on the farm--liability issues.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Check with your local city council. You could take the horses to a group home or a school or hospital or something.


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

So I told my husband tonight that as part of the bankruptcy... We have to move. Yes, our son has to change schools (no more private school). He said he is completely against it and said I was crazy to want to move our son mid school year. He said that between losing the security deposit on our current house and putting down another.. On a new house... We would be losing money in the long run. 

He is making me feel like I'm making a mistake. We have 8 months left on our current lease. Am I making a mistake? Is he right? He always does this to me...




QUOTE=turnera;1100897]Check with your local city council. You could take the horses to a group home or a school or hospital or something.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rj700 (Jun 22, 2012)

What did he offer as an alternative? It is ok for him to be against it, but he has to come up with some alternatives to help your situation. If you can, reframe the whole discussion. Start it off with - "Unless we can come up with other ways to cut back, we will have to move? What do you suggest?".


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yep. Put this on him. Tell him 'come up with $750 dollars a month and we can stay. You have 20 days til I have to pay such and such.'

If he can't, you start moving. 

How old is your son?


----------



## questionme2 (Dec 23, 2008)

He's 6. In first grade. The savings would be about 1000 a month if we moved because of gas, as well. We can't get out of our cars... Because we are upside down. 





turnera said:


> Yep. Put this on him. Tell him 'come up with $750 dollars a month and we can stay. You have 20 days til I have to pay such and such.'
> 
> If he can't, you start moving.
> 
> How old is your son?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

qm, elementary schools are just fine in the public school districts. He doesn't need to be in private school. Trust me, we went that route. Moved D over in 3rd grade - she was BEHIND the other kids!

And he's nowhere near old enough that the move would upset him in the least, if you handle it correctly. If your H doesn't act like an ass about it. Warn him that if he does, he's out.


----------

