# Is your spouse cheating?



## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

So I thought I would give something back to this forum as its help me through a very difficult period in my life.

So as some of you may know my wife had an affair which lasted 8 months. It was on and off and certain circumstances led to that affair. I was emotionally and physically distant from my wife for a quite a while. We had bought a house and finances were strained. A friend fitted our bathroom and basically screwed us over money wise. All of these things add up and when you both don’t talk about it that’s where the problems start. I took the option of burying my head in the sand hoping they would all go away. During this time my wife still made a lot of effort with me like she always had, emotionally and physically and I ignored her advances. This ultimately led to her affair with a man who turned up at the wrong time and said the right things.
So the reason I’m writing this thread is to maybe help others learn from my mistakes, and also my wife’s. And also how to spot the signs of cheating.

Do you suspect your spouse is cheating?

I’m going to list a few signs which I saw as “Red Flags” which turned out to be correct in my circumstances.

*Gut Instinct *

Never ignore your gut instinct, if you feel that there is something not quite right then there probably is. If your other half starts to pull away emotionally and the only way I can describe it is that the energy that connects you when you’re both close suddenly turns into a void. It’s awkward, and sometimes you feel like you’re coming across pressuring when in you're own mind nothing you are doing is out of the ordinary but it feels like it where the other half has pulled away.

*Tables are Turned on You*

When the adulterer try’s to justify their actions. Trying to turn the tables on you. This can manifest itself in different ways. A simple question is met by anger in defence to try and get you to retreat and not bring up such questions. For my example I noticed my wife was looking after herself and kept everything trimmed downstairs even though we hadn’t had sex in a while, this was met with “what do you mean, do you think I’m doing this for someone else?! Why did you have to bring that up, it’s really bothered me”. My question initially didn’t have any meaning behind it but her response raised a red flag, and it turned out my concern was right.

*Using New Friends As An Alibi*

“I’m just popping out to see X for a bit as he/she is upset”, “Would you like me to come with you?”, “No that’s fine” and then they don’t end up coming home for a good few hours or even late at night. One of my experiences was that my wife used a friend’s break up as an excuse for her to come home late or even not at all. So beware of this, my wife would always be there for her friends before but not to the extent that she was doing. Turns out she was with the other man in my case. Also watch their friend’s reactions when you confront them about the amount of time your other half is spending with them, they normally can’t hide their discomfort at being confronted, especially if they are covering up for the affair.

*Phones and Computers*

The cheating spouse will guard these like their life depended on it. If you ask to view messages or emails they will decline and normally accuse you of being paranoid or that you don’t trust them. I asked a number of times to check my wife’s phone and there was more chance of pigs flying. I instead installed a key logger onto our computer and got hold of my wife’s Facebook details. I logged on and there were red flags but not enough to confront her over. She eventually cottoned on to what I had done and threw it in my face. I still knew something wasn’t right but it was about collating enough evidence. So be smart and patient if you decide to go down this route.

*Things just don’t add up*

A guilty spouse will drop the ball somewhere along the lines and contradict themselves. Keeping up with all the lies can be hard to keep track off for them. Once again if you do find this happens be smart and patient; don’t jump in two feet first. Write events like this down so you can keep track of what has been said so you can back yourself up in future. If she says she’s at a friend’s staying the night and you’re mutual friends with their friends other half drop them a message asking if they are in fact there. Eventually the lies will start to unravel. 
Physical contact goes out of the window it becomes more
In my case it became non excitant. I wouldn’t even be able to hold her in bed. The guilt builds in the cheating spouse and normally they’re afraid that their body language is going to give too much away. The other way they hide this is the complete opposite, wanting sex more and hiding in plain sight. Even when it comes to kissing you can feel their body language is tense and rigid instead of being relaxed and accepting. 

After me and my wife separated I still kept myself in check by abstaining from messing about with other women, I didn’t want to give anyone an excuse to point a finger at me and also mess my already broken mind up anymore. I recommend you do this too. 

In my case my wife ended up coming clean and admitting everything in detail. In some ways it was a relief that I was correct all along and that I wasn’t going mad. It was also a platform to start building up our marriage again and tracing back to why the affair took place originally. 

My approach to all of this was to stay calm and talk, going mad would have been too easy and nor would it have changed the past of and what happened.

I hope this helps anyone out there who finds their selves in a similar situation. My advice would be keep your council small, stay calm and composed and be smart about it. The truth will always come out in the end.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

did you use or do any exposure?


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

convert said:


> did you use any exposure?


What do you mean by exposure?


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Jay83 said:


> What do you mean by exposure?


to help end the affair or help keep the affair dead Exposure is a great tool it also helps in possible making them think about starting another affair in the future by giving them consequences for their affair.
exposure can also gain the BS some support.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Your wife, or your stbxw? What is the point in catching them cheating if you are just going to stay with them?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jay83 said:


> What do you mean by exposure?


Telling friends and family, outing to children (in an age-appropriate way) and informing work colleagues and management, especially if the affair is a workplace affair.

By the way, thank you for your post wihch will help a lot of other people at TAM.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Thanks for sharing this. 

The exposure would happen after you discover the affair. The OP is giving us tips on how to identify an affair, not how to react to an affair. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

Oh right I see. Then yes we both have, she's been very open about it to be honest wit our friends and her family etc. So yes we have used exposure.

Well it would be nice for others to maybe read this or even input there own events or signs into this.


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

Also just to mention that since the end of the affair barriers have been pulled down. We talk honestly and openly about our feelings. what we like and don't like. It's something so simple which can save thousands of marriages and relationships. It's why are marriage started to fail and spiral, when things got tough we buried our heads in the sand.


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Your wife, or your stbxw? What is the point in catching them cheating if you are just going to stay with them?


My wife. I believe in trying to fix what was once broken. For better or worse and all of that : )


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Jay83 said:


> My wife. I believe in trying to fix what was once broken. For *better or worse and all of that : )*


*
*
all that also includes forsaking all others in the vow as well.

Seems you're taking a lot of responsibility for her choice to cheat. But that was her choice. You own what you did in the marriage but should not in the affair. She had other options.

I like your list but add the Unsolicited anger and cruelty. I know when my wayward X was cheating she was downright cruel to both me and our children. Personally think it's guilt masking as anger. 

Good luck in your reconciliation


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

Wolf1974 said:


> [/B]
> all that also includes forsaking all others in the vow as well.
> 
> Seems you're taking a lot of responsibility for her choice to cheat. But that was her choice. You own what you did in the marriage but should not in the affair. She had other options.
> ...


I'm taking responsibility for my actions, my wife doesn't blame me and takes full responsibility. It does seem like marriage vows count for f**k all now. 

Thanks for the input and the good luck message, much appreciated. Hopefully I can put a positive spin on this forum : )


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## bluezone (Jan 7, 2012)

Jay83 said:


> Also just to mention that since the end of the affair barriers have been pulled down. We talk honestly and openly about our feelings. what we like and don't like. It's something so simple which can save thousands of marriages and relationships. It's why are marriage started to fail and spiral, when things got tough we buried our heads in the sand.


Jay83 thank you for this post. As someone who has had "gut" feelings before and whose H was probably getting close to an EA before I confronted...I really appreciate your thoughts on this. I know exactly what you are talking about with the "void" feeling in the relationship...yes it feels like they are pulling away. And communication is KEY. My H and I were in counseling for 2 years, and we have worked really hard at improving our communication. It's SO important.

I would add that the book "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Harley is an excellent book in terms of understanding what your spouse needs from you to keep the relationship strong.


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

bluezone said:


> Jay83 thank you for this post. As someone who has had "gut" feelings before and whose H was probably getting close to an EA before I confronted...I really appreciate your thoughts on this. I know exactly what you are talking about with the "void" feeling in the relationship...yes it feels like they are pulling away. And communication is KEY. My H and I were in counseling for 2 years, and we have worked really hard at improving our communication. It's SO important.
> 
> I would add that the book "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Harley is an excellent book in terms of understanding what your spouse needs from you to keep the relationship strong.


I will give that book a look, any sort of help is always appreciated. Like many of us I ignored my wife's needs and it doesn't excuse her actions but it made me realise where I was going wrong with myself. And if my advice can help other marriages which are heading down this path then that means a lot to me.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Great post and very helpful to anyone who may have that "gut feeling" that something is wrong. It's also good that you are rebuilding your marriage and have started growing stronger through communication. 

Was there an emotional bond between your wife and the OM or was it sex only? Are they now NC and how did that go down? How did she meet him? Lastly, how much did her friends know and cover for her, and have they too been cut from her life?


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> Great post and very helpful to anyone who may have that "gut feeling" that something is wrong. It's also good that you are rebuilding your marriage and have started growing stronger through communication.
> 
> Was there an emotional bond between your wife and the OM or was it sex only? Are they now NC and how did that go down? How did she meet him? Lastly, how much did her friends know and cover for her, and have they too been cut from her life?


Thank you : ) 

My wife runs her parents pub and this guy was working down our way from Monday to Friday. Very charming albeit older (40). It started off just sex but of course over time an emotional bond grew. She ended it with him as she didn't want to have an actual relationship which is what he ended up wanting (and did all along). Every time she broke it off he would threaten to tell me. It ended physically in May but they had little contact since. When he heard we were talking about sorting out our marriage back in early August he tried to black mail her again but she told me and admitted the affair.

He didn't take it very well, he was bitter about it as he still loved her (even though he has since moved abroad) and he told me she ended it and it's ruined her life and he hates her. Well more for him getting involved with a married woman. He knew she was married and going through a difficult time with me, so i guess that's karma. No contact now though.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

How many of her friends knew and covered for her? Did she cut them from her life too?


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## mistakesweremade (Aug 15, 2016)

As a former WW, this list is extremely accurate.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Good list.

OP must have some big guilt of being a sh&tty husband to take back a cheater/lier. I couldn't have done it.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

GuyInColorado said:


> Good list.
> 
> OP must have some big guilt of being a sh&tty husband to take back a cheater/lier. I couldn't have done it.


I always wonder what's the point of these statements that pop up around here all the time? I don't get it....is not that you couldn't have done it , am sure anyone can do it, it is a choice not to do it based on personality traits, and rightfully so. But i might as well ask how could someone eat frog legs, I could never do it...


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

Your list is very good. One thing I can add that my WW did during her affair was to quit bugging me about things- such as a home improvement project she had been on my case to begin... or a trip she wanted us to take, or quit complaining when I had to work late. etc... after I began to suspect something, she turned negatively critical of everything to do with me. I could do nothing right. 

She had also been one to call/text me multiple times a day at work to chat. This all but stopped. (she was texting the OM instead) Looking back, I saw that our communication changed to a pattern of her only contacting me in order to confirm where I was, or how much longer I would be. 

She QUIT MENTIONING anything at all about her new boss at work (he was the OM) wheras before she got involved with him she mentioned him frequently. 

She made out like a whole group of coworkers went to lunch everyday- (which they did) but a lot of the time it was only her and OM. If I called her at lunchtime- she would never pick up- but would call me back in a few minutes. Every single time. 

My wife worked for 14 years and hardly EVER worked late at the office until her affair. Then it became several days a week. It didnt register with me because I worked a highly technical job with deadlines that had to be met, and working late was par for the course. 

If your spouse travels for work, then watch for changes in their habits. My wife would be miserable away from me and the kids when she traveled. She would text/call multiple times and fuss over childcare, meals, and then we would chat for hours at night before bed. This changed to her 'going to eat out with the group' until a lot later- and brief calls to me centered around the children, and then long silences and her being 'tired' and needing to go to bed. (she was banging the other man who was travelling with her). 

When I started being suspicious, and crawled up her butt with a microscope I actually found receipts where she had gone to MOVIES with the OM while on business trips, and also had room key cards in her purse for his room as well as hers. 

If you ever notice your spouse being overly protective of their phone- do nothing to alert them- then get hold of text recovery software and learn how to use it on your own phone- then snag theirs in the dead of the night and recover their deleted texts. 

If you ever accidentally catch them with suspicious texts- do not let them have the phone back- run lock yourself in a room, or leave the house with the phone so you can recover/save them as evidence. If you give them the phone back they will delete the texts, do a factory reset on the phone, or replace the phone altogether to prevent you from being able to recover them.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi @Jay83, 

Many here have doubts this reconcilation will last. Other marriages have survived worse. Again read @drifting on threads also read @MovingFrwrx thread. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/309042-struggling-forget.html. In both case the a BS went all in after a period of serious doubts, but they went all in, as you need to do. I would http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/309042-struggling-forget.html that you keep finances separate for several years 2.5 to 5 years. Why this length, because that is how long it takes to have true faith though with no guaranties. Bear in mind the money is still a marrital asset. If you spilt she gets half if you are off the deed. You know the truth, the court wants proof and is very demanding on what is proof. 

After you have legal proof offer to pay less than going rate for a house share and put the money she gave you in a long term investment in your name. (again the legal proof should contain language that spells this out). It is fair since you will be doing things around the house.
Finally start yet another new thread in the reconciliation forum with links to your past threads. Perhaps title it after adultery, reconciliation what's ahead. I've read many threads and would like to share what I learned.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Jay83 said:


> I will give that book a look, any sort of help is always appreciated. Like many of us I ignored my wife's needs and it doesn't excuse her actions but it made me realise where I was going wrong with myself. And if my advice can help other marriages which are heading down this path then that means a lot to me.


Affairs rarely take place in a vacuum. Understanding that is not blame shifting, it is
recognizing a simple fact. Jay, I'm glad you recognized that. I hope it will help others.


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## Jntrs (Feb 13, 2013)

i remember when i figured something was going on, my ex was never very affectionate with me, but then that change, weird to say, but if your wife/husband acts different that is the first clue, after that was the phone with her all the time and the going out with "friends" more than me even when she said she was going to stay home and last minute would change her mind


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## confusednAlone (Aug 15, 2016)

Has anyone mentioned a VAR? Can't lie with that as evidence. 

Who needs a signature?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

GuyInColorado said:


> Good list.
> 
> OP must have some big guilt of being a sh&tty husband to take back a cheater/lier. I couldn't have done it.




I have no guilt in giving my wife a second chance, my half of the marriage I made mistakes, I brought problems into the marriage. Why? Because I'm not perfect. Sure, what I did wasn't nearly as bad as what my wife did, and had I been perfect she wouldn't get a second chance. But that's not the case is it, instead we are both fallible, flawed if you will. We are all human, we are all fallible, and the best thing about being human is that we can change. Not everyone can change, but every human is capable of change. 

When I see a comment like this one above, I hold nothing against the poster, instead I see you are holding to your beliefs. Your opinion counts, your opinion could be true for most, but for some it's wrong. But I would hate for a betrayed spouse who has decided to reconcile read your comment and change their mind. Your opinion is what you would do, but the way you phrase taking back a cheater leaves one to perceive that a betrayed spouse who reconciles is weak. Reality is, they are taking the path that is in their best interest, and that makes them strong whether it's divorce or reconciliation.

Lastly, a wayward spouse is capable of becoming a great person again. Their are several that immediately come to mind. I won't name them here, but they contribute very well to betrayed spouses who are trying to heal. They have offered some very valuable advice and opinions, sort of making the betrayed spouse calmer. They help to understand why people chose infidelity, and most importantly show the betrayed spouse it isn't their fault. I hope they all keep posting, it helps me too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> I always wonder what's the point of these statements that pop up around here all the time? I don't get it....is not that you couldn't have done it , am sure anyone can do it, it is a choice not to do it based on personality traits, and rightfully so. But i might as well ask how could someone eat frog legs, I could never do it...


I get it. I put it in the exact same realm as "everyone makes mistakes," which pops up, just like other similar statements, all over this website. It is called a different perspective.


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> How many of her friends knew and covered for her? Did she cut them from her life too?


Two of them and yes. They weren't real friends they were wolves in sheep clothing, dragging her down to their level to make their own pity-full lives seem better. Her real friends didn't know, she was too ashamed to tell them as she knew they would tell her straight. Instead now my wife has been left with a broken marriage which we are trying to fix and also a lot of broken friendships. Makes you think about how destructive affairs are and also how sometimes its not the pebble hitting the water which causes the damage it's the ripples in the water which has the affect.


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

destroyd said:


> Your list is very good. One thing I can add that my WW did during her affair was to quit bugging me about things- such as a home improvement project she had been on my case to begin... or a trip she wanted us to take, or quit complaining when I had to work late. etc... after I began to suspect something, she turned negatively critical of everything to do with me. I could do nothing right.
> 
> She had also been one to call/text me multiple times a day at work to chat. This all but stopped. (she was texting the OM instead) Looking back, I saw that our communication changed to a pattern of her only contacting me in order to confirm where I was, or how much longer I would be.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely correct in regards to the phone calls and text messages suddenly changing. All of these woven patterns we have in our lives without us realising it until something happens and it changes. 

Did you ever try to sort the marriage out after you found out about your wife's affair?


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## rafaelandy (May 8, 2013)

as jay83's purpose in starting this thread, i'd like to share some behaviors i observed on my (soon to be) WW...she's a flight attendant, by the way :

- she dressed differently

- she listend to different music / songs

- she started exercising frequently

- she went out with friends frequently

- she wanted to go on a vacation with friends

- her friends joked / teased her, in my presence, about sex and her "other bf's"

- became interested in good-looking and muscular movie actors, she collected / kept pictures and magazine articles

- anonymous / dropped calls on her phone

- recorded "lively / flirty" greetings in her phone answering machine

- numerous international calls to the city where her lovers were located

- unusual frequency of flights to the same city / destination

- drank alcohol / wine more frequently

- caught her many times checking-out other men

- a different "sparkle" in her eyes and teen-like giggle when talking to her male friends

- shouted "...you're not my priority anymore, i will do what i want, i deserve to be happy, etc..."

- shaved "different styles" down under

- i was given the "cold treatment"

- kissed differently and did some unusual moves when we had sex

- avoided sex as much as possible (very unusual)

- kept "remembrances" (voice recordings, pictures, letter of OM and other men)

- marks and bruises on her sensitive body parts ( neck, breast, upper-thighs)

- didn't answer calls

- avoids eye contact

- flirty FB / sms messages to other men

- suddenly blurted out when she was tipsy "...i wish i might as well got paid..." to which she immediately denied saying when asked to clarify what she just said


i also hope the things i mentioned above may help others looking for answers.

my best wishes and good luck to jay83 on his journey to recovery.


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

drifting on said:


> I have no guilt in giving my wife a second chance, my half of the marriage I made mistakes, I brought problems into the marriage. Why? Because I'm not perfect. Sure, what I did wasn't nearly as bad as what my wife did, and had I been perfect she wouldn't get a second chance. But that's not the case is it, instead we are both fallible, flawed if you will. We are all human, we are all fallible, and the best thing about being human is that we can change. Not everyone can change, but every human is capable of change.
> 
> When I see a comment like this one above, I hold nothing against the poster, instead I see you are holding to your beliefs. Your opinion counts, your opinion could be true for most, but for some it's wrong. But I would hate for a betrayed spouse who has decided to reconcile read your comment and change their mind. Your opinion is what you would do, but the way you phrase taking back a cheater leaves one to perceive that a betrayed spouse who reconciles is weak. Reality is, they are taking the path that is in their best interest, and that makes them strong whether it's divorce or reconciliation.
> 
> ...


Same as me to be honest, I don't feel guilty but I've realised that I really didn't help our marriage, I was probably the original poison which infected our marriage. I wasn't nasty, abusive or had an affair but I took her for granted and let the marriage go stale. A lot of the times people like to point the finger at the spouse who had the affair.... but what about everything leading up to it? What events had caused the wife or husband to go astray? 

Can I ask how your reconciliation is going?


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

sidney2718 said:


> Affairs rarely take place in a vacuum. Understanding that is not blame shifting, it is
> recognizing a simple fact. Jay, I'm glad you recognized that. I hope it will help others.


Thank you. It's hard for others to admit when they are wrong. Don't get me wrong this is hard, very hard but I hope we come out of this stronger.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Good post... But I think one area where this may (or tend to) not work is with an experienced serial cheater... possibly a sociopath, so everything is always a lie, there is no guilt - ever. That man who goes out of his way to cheat. Be it co-workers to add to his notch or prostitutes.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

A great (and useful) thread. All of the lists of signs are in relation to WW. 
I wonder are there any differences for WH since men are able to compartmentalize their feelings much better imo?


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## MovingFrwrd (Dec 22, 2015)

Jay83 said:


> Two of them and yes. They weren't real friends they were wolves in sheep clothing, dragging her down to their level to make their own pity-full lives seem better. Her real friends didn't know, she was too ashamed to tell them as she knew they would tell her straight. Instead now my wife has been left with a broken marriage which we are trying to fix and also a lot of broken friendships. *Makes you think about how destructive affairs are and also how sometimes its not the pebble hitting the water which causes the damage it's the ripples in the water which has the affect*.


The ripples are tough to deal with at times, and you don't realize how far reaching they are until they show up. I was at the bus stop with my 7yo son yesterday, and he asked me when we were going to see the (OM's family name) again. Mind you, this is more than a year and a half later. I simply responded, 'I don't know.' He then asked why we weren't friends with them anymore? I responded that OM and OM wife didn't work with mommy anymore. (Actual names used when talking with my son, obviously.) 

Part of me took this as a good sign, that my wife and I have done a good job of keeping the kids life fairly normal apart from the OM's family being in it. Part of me realized again how big a hole was created. It was a sad moment, but life does go on.



aine said:


> A great (and useful) thread. All of the lists of signs are in relation to WW.
> I wonder are there any differences for WH since men are able to compartmentalize their feelings much better imo?


Interesting question, and I'd be interested to hear the responses. In my experience, my FWW compartmentalized exceptionally well (not a good thing during the affair, obviously) and looking back, the only clues I can think of off the top of my head were we fought more, she was more critical of me and a bit less helpful with day to day things. I just chalked this up to us going through a stressful time and it was part of the ebb and flow of marriage. I recognized that we weren't doing well in our marriage for a period of time, but thought we would bring it back around as the stress eased. We didn't stop having sex, we didn't stop saying we loved each other, we had periods where we would tuck little surprise love notes to each other etc. Normal stuff, right?

Had I not stumbled across texts that raised questions, I probably wouldn't have found out. As far as our day to day life, she barely did anything that I would have said raised a red flag. In 20/20 hindsight I can spot more inconsistencies, but when it was happening (and I wasn't hyper vigilant) I didn't pick up on things.

Apparently, the OM didn't compartmentalize quite as well - I found out after the fact that the OM's wife had suspicions for a fairly lengthy time. She was probably more 'present' in their relationship than I was in mine.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Jay after you too separated did she still the other man?


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

Xenote said:


> Jay after you too separated did she still the other man?


No, he moved away because when she ended it he couldn't handle it, she broke his heart (playing the smallest violin for him right now). After we split they messaged each other though and that's when she said we were working things out. He then threatened to tell me and she said no, that she wanted to tell me.

However when we did split up, best part of ten weeks or so, maybe longer, she did go off the rails and sleep with a few other men. All of who are out of the picture now. All of them way below par for her and when I asked why she couldn't give me a straight answer apart from that she felt alone, ashamed and depressed about what was happening. Her self esteem was at the bottom of the barrel and she thought that if she ever told me about what would happen I would have been out of her life for good. To be honest If I would have found out at the time I would have left, I think it was the time that I had to process what I really wanted, and it was horrible seeing my wife turn into this fake person that isn't truly her.


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

MovingFrwrd said:


> The ripples are tough to deal with at times, and you don't realize how far reaching they are until they show up. I was at the bus stop with my 7yo son yesterday, and he asked me when we were going to see the (OM's family name) again. Mind you, this is more than a year and a half later. I simply responded, 'I don't know.' He then asked why we weren't friends with them anymore? I responded that OM and OM wife didn't work with mommy anymore. (Actual names used when talking with my son, obviously.)
> 
> Part of me took this as a good sign, that my wife and I have done a good job of keeping the kids life fairly normal apart from the OM's family being in it. Part of me realized again how big a hole was created. It was a sad moment, but life does go on.
> 
> ...


I've read your thread and I honestly feel your pain. How are you find the marriage now? One problem I face are moments of complete darkness where my mind is cruel and I struggle to shake images from my mind.


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

aine said:


> A great (and useful) thread. All of the lists of signs are in relation to WW.
> I wonder are there any differences for WH since men are able to compartmentalize their feelings much better imo?


Thank you : )

I think it all depends on the person and their persona to be honest. No one is exactly the same so where each affair has the same traits I don't think any of us react in the exact way.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Jay83 said:


> No, he moved away because when she ended it he couldn't handle it, she broke his heart (playing the smallest violin for him right now). After we split they messaged each other though and that's when she said we were working things out. He then threatened to tell me and she said no, that she wanted to tell me.
> 
> However when we did split up, best part of ten weeks or so, maybe longer, she did go off the rails and sleep with a few other men. All of who are out of the picture now. All of them way below par for her and when I asked why she couldn't give me a straight answer apart from that she felt alone, ashamed and depressed about what was happening. Her self esteem was at the bottom of the barrel and she thought that if she ever told me about what would happen I would have been out of her life for good. To be honest If I would have found out at the time I would have left, I think it was the time that I had to process what I really wanted, and it was horrible seeing my wife turn into this fake person that isn't truly her.


Jay i have to say while i am happy things are getting back on track between each other, i have to tell you as a man, i would be pissed that she gets to sleep around and then when she suddenly feels remorse and comes back you take her back.....frankly and i know this sounds selfish that as part of the agreement that you have a certain number of hall passes for you to use at your discretion and she can not be upset about it...take it or leave it...your a better man than i Gunga Din.


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## MovingFrwrd (Dec 22, 2015)

Jay83 said:


> I've read your thread and I honestly feel your pain. How are you find the marriage now? One problem I face are moments of complete darkness where my mind is cruel and I struggle to shake images from my mind.


The darkness is wickedly cruel, and your mind plays tricks on you and drags you back down into your own personal hell. My worst times were when I was drinking. The depression plus anger plus the alcohol were a horrific combination and I would just spiral down into darkness. I've since stopped drinking, and my day+ long spirals have shrunken down considerably. I can use mental tricks of a stop sign, or counting blessings, or any number of other more positive thoughts to break my thought pattern. Most times it works pretty well, but mostly I need to stay off alcohol and I've identified that as my number one problem - your mind muddles and you don't break out of it as easily.

The marriage is going as good as I can hope at the moment. The tide has turned, as I've been stabilizing, my wife is now going through her own issues. If I'm stressed out or mad at work, she gets worried. I can see it in her body language that she begins walking on eggshells around me and gets stressed out. I need to definitely control my own emotions and communicate better with her, let her know that I'm angry about work, or something else that may be unrelated to her to put her back at ease.

The rebuilding is a long and tough road, but I count myself lucky that she has walked away from what she did and has not once gone back, hasn't once contacted any of the OMs. We now tell each other that we choose each other each day.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Jay83 said:


> Same as me to be honest, I don't feel guilty but I've realised that I really didn't help our marriage, I was probably the original poison which infected our marriage. I wasn't nasty, abusive or had an affair but I took her for granted and let the marriage go stale. A lot of the times people like to point the finger at the spouse who had the affair.... but what about everything leading up to it? What events had caused the wife or husband to go astray?
> 
> Can I ask how your reconciliation is going?





Jay

Our reconciliation is moving forward, slow, but I'm the type that needs to question and answer everything. Once I have my questions answered, processed that information, then I accept it. It's the acception that is so brutally painful. This takes more time, but since I chose to reconcile I am turning over every stone to get this process done correctly. I move slow, be sure I have my footing before moving forward, I don't want this to fail because we rushed through. 

I have individual therapy to help make me become the best I can be. Obviously I was responsible for half of the marital issues, I need to correct those. I also needed to self reflect to correct my issues, my wife telling me what I did wrong prior to the affair helps, but correcting your issues AFTER the affair is very difficult. Many times I thought I was rewarding my wife, this is caused by your emotions of being hurt, you have to look past this. This is part of the reason self reflecting is so difficult, you are destroyed by infidelity and then have to work hard on yourself when you don't feel at fault. You have to separate the issues, work on them thoroughly, and then your reconciliation will benefit. 

Although mine is going well now we have had bumps in the road. I'm sure we will have more, but communication will help those issues become resolved. One other note Jay, your wife has to be willing, remorseful, and use actions to show this is indeed the most important work she will do. Her value of the marriage must be at its highest, her protection of the marriage at its highest, and her communication skills at the absolute best she is capable of. Anything less and this reconciliation will fail. Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

Xenote said:


> Jay i have to say while i am happy things are getting back on track between each other, i have to tell you as a man, i would be pissed that she gets to sleep around and then when she suddenly feels remorse and comes back you take her back.....frankly and i know this sounds selfish that as part of the agreement that you have a certain number of hall passes for you to use at your discretion and she can not be upset about it...take it or leave it...your a better man than i Gunga Din.


It's ****... it really is. But the "hall passes" in theory but in reality this is only going to make the situation worse.

I had my chances when separated to pull and sleep around with other women, but I knew deep down how that was only going to mess up my mind more and also potentially hurt another person because of my situation at the time. And now looking back I made the right choice. My wife is a wreck because of what she has done. The guilt, remorse and shame (all of the guys weren't really very nice taste) my wife feels now is terrible, and I am glad I don't have that issue to deal with either.


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## Jay83 (Jun 10, 2016)

drifting on said:


> Jay
> 
> Our reconciliation is moving forward, slow, but I'm the type that needs to question and answer everything. Once I have my questions answered, processed that information, then I accept it. It's the acception that is so brutally painful. This takes more time, but since I chose to reconcile I am turning over every stone to get this process done correctly. I move slow, be sure I have my footing before moving forward, I don't want this to fail because we rushed through.
> 
> ...


I turned to drink (not heavily though) to help me through the lonely nights where I was full of doubt. I seem to deal with the mental aspect of it with looking at the bigger picture and also laughing at the men she dated and the man she had the affair with. I consider myself to be a strong character who has a rational mind.

As I have said on here before if she wasn't making the effort then I would not be interested, but she's chosen the hard way in trying to reconcile with me and is trying hard to make amends, as am I. 

I'm glad you two are sorting out your marriage.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Jay83 said:


> I turned to drink (not heavily though) to help me through the lonely nights where I was full of doubt. I seem to deal with the mental aspect of it with looking at the bigger picture and also laughing at the men she dated and the man she had the affair with. I consider myself to be a strong character who has a rational mind.
> 
> As I have said on here before if she wasn't making the effort then I would not be interested, but she's chosen the hard way in trying to reconcile with me and is trying hard to make amends, as am I.
> 
> I'm glad you two are sorting out your marriage.




I hope you have stopped drinking, it won't help you, maybe start a training regimen at your local gym, also helps with the anger you'll feel. Your wife may be trying hard, may be remorseful, but what she has to do is very difficult. Your work is going to be difficult too. Unless you are both all in, same goals for the future of the marriage, and strict boundaries, you have a chance. I wish you the best of luck on your journey, this process is long and has no shortcuts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Jay83 said:


> Same as me to be honest, I don't feel guilty but I've realised that I really didn't help our marriage, I was probably the original poison which infected our marriage. I wasn't nasty, abusive or had an affair *but I took her for granted and let the marriage go stale.* A lot of the times people like to point the finger at the spouse who had the affair.... but what about everything leading up to it? What events had caused the wife or husband to go astray?
> 
> Can I ask how your reconciliation is going?


i think this is the biggest thing we all are up against in our marriages. after the 'honeymoon years'.

even if you try, it's hard. and when you don't even try, you're courting disaster.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

CantBelieveThis said:


> I always wonder what's the point of these statements that pop up around here all the time? I don't get it....is not that you couldn't have done it , am sure anyone can do it, it is a choice not to do it based on personality traits, and rightfully so. But i might as well ask how could someone eat frog legs, I could never do it...


I agree with your posting. I hold the same opinion as @GuyInColorado, that there is no way I can continue to be married to a woman who has physically betrayed me. I feel this way for a variety of moral and personal reasons. I guess it's similar to the same reason you won't eat frog legs, because it's disgusting to you (amongst other reasons).

My personality would require an immediate end to the marriage no matter the circumstances of the affair and the aftermath would most likely be scorched earth. That's just me and how I feel I need to deal with it. However, every opinion here is a valid one, regardless if you agree with it or not. @DriftingOn said he would hate for a BH/BW to read @GuyInColorado's post and act on it. I think that every BH/BW should read all opinions, and then do what's best for them, under their circumstances. 

That being said, I would never advise any spouse to take back their cheating husband/wife after a physical affair, and I would give them my thought process on why I feel that way.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> I agree with your posting. I hold the same opinion as @GuyInColorado, that there is no way I can continue to be married to a woman who has physically betrayed me. I feel this way for a variety of moral and personal reasons. I guess it's similar to the same reason you won't eat frog legs, because it's disgusting to you (amongst other reasons).
> 
> My personality would require an immediate end to the marriage no matter the circumstances of the affair and the aftermath would most likely be scorched earth. That's just me and how I feel I need to deal with it. However, every opinion here is a valid one, regardless if you agree with it or not. @DriftingOn said he would hate for a BH/BW to read @GuyInColorado's post and act on it. I think that every BH/BW should read all opinions, and then do what's best for them, under their circumstances.
> 
> That being said, I would never advise any spouse to take back their cheating husband/wife after a physical affair, and I would give them my thought process on why I feel that way.





I'm not sure if you just skimmed this paragraph, but this is what I wrote;

When I see a comment like this one above, I hold nothing against the poster, instead I see you are holding to your beliefs. Your opinion counts, your opinion could be true for most, but for some it's wrong. But I would hate for a betrayed spouse who has decided to reconcile read your comment and change their mind. Your opinion is what you would do, but the way you phrase taking back a cheater leaves one to perceive that a betrayed spouse who reconciles is weak. Reality is, they are taking the path that is in their best interest, and that makes them strong whether it's divorce or reconciliation.


The way that Colorado phrased his post immediately had me perceiving his post as the BS is weak for reconciling. @CantBelieveThis is correct in his post, I didn't say not to act. I said to make the best decision for them, whether it be divorce or reconciliation. If this person perceived colorados post as I did, the BS may make the decision to divorce because he will appear weak. That would be a disservice to the BS, don't you think?

I believe all opinions are great, even yours, even if we disagree. We disagree here because I have not once told a BS not to act, if the affair is currently or about to start, I'm a believer in hard shutdowns. Possibly could be considered to be scorched earth. This OP has stated he is going to reconcile, I support the OP, even if I don't agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Jay83 said:


> To be honest If I would have found out at the time I would have left, I think it was the time that I had to process what I really wanted, and it was horrible seeing my wife turn into this fake person that isn't truly her.


It always pains me to hear a BS make statements like this.

I can convince myself that I am a great person, with no flaws. However, it doesn't carry much weight when I'm sitting in a jail cell for some sort of a crime. All of us... Every single one of us... Are not defined by who we think we are, but rather what we do. Our actions define us.

This quoted statement is you literally trying to convince yourself that her actions are not really her. Bullshyte. She made those choices. It may not be all of her, but it is a significant enough part for her to have run the risk of blowing up her family. 

Don't lie to yourself this way.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> It always pains me to hear a BS make statements like this.
> 
> I can convince myself that I am a great person, with no flaws. However, it doesn't carry much weight when I'm sitting in a jail cell for some sort of a crime. All of us... Every single one of us... Are not defined by who we think we are, but rather what we do. Our actions define us.
> 
> ...




I completely agree. @Jay83 - if you felt that way before, why do you not feel that way now?

Every day we wake up and make a NEW set of decisions. It may not seem like it but it's true. We decide to stay at our jobs and stay with our spouses - or we decide not to.

Only a fool believes yesterday's decision has to be acted upon today.

BTW I believe this to be 100% true. To those that say "that's crazy - if I rob a bank yesterday I have to live with the consequences today" I say rubbish. Just because the options available today may be influenced by actions in the past or actions of others around you, doesn't remove your obligation to take responsibility for each new days decisions. That's why prisoners sometimes get training and schooling, or get religion, or stab their cell mates. 

We don't live in a "clockwork orange" where everything is predetermined.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I am sorry for all the hurt and pain I read here. But I still to this day can not see how people stay with a cheating spouse. 

Yes we have all been guilty of not putting in a 100%, not being there. Did you go out and cheat because of it, NO. The lying, cheating POS did. That is the difference. There is no excuse for it, they piss all over their marriage. Then when caught tears and more lying/trickle truth. 

Because let's be honest, why would you fight for a spouse that stabs you in the back. Why fight to stay with a cheat. Because no they do not LOVE YOU when they are screwing another persons brains out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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