# The whole child bearing thing



## QuietSoul

So, H and I are Christians, and I dunno about you but the general idea I have come across at church is the idea that married couples, if fertile, should "multiply".

Well, me and H have really gone against the grain on that one. Married six years, i'm turning 32 soon, and still no babies. Not that we have spent six years trying or anything. We have been making some half baked effort to try the last six months but no baby yet. 

About 18 months ago, my pastor came to pray over a place we bought, and the prayer was... omg.... awkward? I know he meant well, but... praying in the spare room that it would be "waiting " for a baby, and praying in our main room that it would be a room of love and passion and conception... subtle right? I dunno, maybe he assumed we were trying or even wanting a baby. Since then, I have felt funny about him praying for me or for us as a couple.

I do feel a kind of pressure to have a baby - as a Christian, a wife, a woman in her early 30s... my H isn't pressurey, he is very patient actually, and like me, he is not super clucky or "do or die" about it.

There are a bunch of reasons for my hesitation, the main one being my abject phobia of the entire birth process, or of miscarrying. 

One other reason I feel would be frowned upon at church is that I know that my body will NEVER be the same again. I like it how it is, and I know things will go south eventually, but after birth, hormones cause weight gain, women pee themselves, have issues with their pelvic floor, vagina not the same, boobs change. 

Apart from the toll it would take physically, I don't mind the idea of a baby and I know it would be loved and welcomed, but I wish I was trying for a baby feeling like my heart is actually in this. On an intellectual level, I think I am there. And I think we would regret not having one if we could.

Bleh... I dunno....

I looked into adopting, which is always what I thought I would do if I wanted kids one day. my H was open to it but I could sense his heart wasn't in it and I didn't think it would be fair for him or a kid if I charged down that path.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fozzy

Being a parent is not a requirement for salvation. Have children (or not) on your timetable, not your pastor's.


----------



## EleGirl

If you really don't want a child, do not have any. It's not something to do just because you feel pressured by the church or society.

That's a real person that will be created and he/she deserves something more positive as the reason they were brought into this world.


----------



## Cynthia

QuietSoul said:


> There are a bunch of reasons for my hesitation, the main one being my abject phobia of the entire birth process, or of miscarrying.
> 
> One other reason I feel would be frowned upon at church is that I know that my body will NEVER be the same again. I like it how it is, and I know things will go south eventually, but after birth, hormones cause weight gain, women pee themselves, have issues with their pelvic floor, vagina not the same, boobs change.
> 
> Apart from the toll it would take physically, I don't mind the idea of a baby and I know it would be loved and welcomed, but I wish I was trying for a baby feeling like my heart is actually in this. On an intellectual level, I think I am there. And I think we would regret not having one if we could.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Since you said that you are not trying to prevent pregnancy and that you don’t mind the idea of a baby, I’ll give you some encouragement from my own life.
You sound a lot like I felt in my 20's. My husband and I were married 10 years before we had a baby and then it was because my husband told me that he wanted children and that I had told him I did too before we married, so changing my mind on this was not acceptable. I agreed and we started trying. It took over a year, but we now have three children.
I did gain a bit of weight after having our 2nd and 3rd children, but I was still slim. I put on weight later, but have taken it off now. I don’t think it had anything to do with child bearing. I now wear a size 2 and am very fit at 50 yrs.
I was very nervous about having a baby, but the experience made me feel very powerful and feminine. All three of my pregnancies and births were affirming to me. Breastfeeding and caring for my children has brought out something in me that I didn’t know existed. It radically changed me as a person for the better. I am so thankful for my children. They are a huge blessing in my life. 
I do not have pelvic floor issues despite giving birth naturally to a 9 lb. 10 oz. baby. There are exercises that keep those muscles in good condition. Having regular sex is also good for them. Sex does not stop after babies come and my husband has not given me any indication that things are not working properly.
My breasts certainly changed. They got huge, then they went back down, but not as much as before. I was a 32 AA. Now I’m a 32D. Pregnancy definitely changes the breasts, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Men like breasts and they don’t seem to care too much about how they change after babies. Some men actually see it as something they contributed to and like it that way. Besides that, bodies change as we age anyway. There is no fountain of youth.


----------



## Omego

Just chiming in here to say that before I had children, I didn't have any maternal instincts whatsoever. Never thought babies were cute, wasn't charmed by toddlers, etc. Couldn't have cared less about the whole thing. 

After having a baby, all of that changed. I would say it's the best experience I've ever had. Nothing can compare to it. I wouldn't want to have missed out on it. I have four children and frankly, despite the pain of childbirth, I would have had more had it been feasible. I'm now waiting patiently to become a grandmother just so I can hold a newborn again. I lost all of the extra weight after each birth, and didn't suffer from long-term breastfeeding. My H says you can't even tell I've had any children, so truthfully, you can't be certain that your body will change for the worse.

All of this to say that you may end up being very, very happy if you do decide to have children of your own. Adoption is also a very noble idea, of course.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

I think maybe you should try to get into fostering a child if you really want to do some good. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with not wanting to deal with pregnancy and babies and the change in your body. I think it's insulting when people try to pressure others into procreation. There are quite enough people being born into the world every day and choosing to abstain from adding to that number is actually a pretty responsible choice,IMHO.


----------



## Jellybeans

Not everyone wants to have babies and there is nothing wrong with that.

Do what you and your husband want, not what society/your church wants/expects from you.

Someone else explained in another thread like this that she thought some people were just born with the "baby chip' and some aren't. I think that is true. There is no right or wrong answer.

Women, I think feel this pressure to have children by society in a way that is really unfair and judgmental if they don't.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Omego said:


> Just chiming in here to say that before I had children, I didn't have any maternal instincts whatsoever. Never thought babies were cute, wasn't charmed by toddlers, etc. Couldn't have cared less about the whole thing.
> 
> After having a baby, all of that changed. I would say it's the best experience I've ever had. Nothing can compare to it. I wouldn't want to have missed out on it. I have four children and frankly, despite the pain of childbirth, I would have had more had it been feasible. I'm now waiting patiently to become a grandmother just so I can hold a newborn again. I lost all of the extra weight after each birth, and didn't suffer from long-term breastfeeding. My H says you can't even tell I've had any children, so truthfully, you can't be certain that your body will change for the worse.
> 
> All of this to say that you may end up being very, very happy if you do decide to have children of your own. Adoption is also a very noble idea, of course.



Me too. I never babysat and didn't really care for kids, but the moment I saw my first everything changed. He looked at me and smiled right after he was born and we bonded instantly. The doctor told me it was just gas but I didn't believe him; that baby smiled at me and we've been tight ever since (he's 13 now). My second wasn't so happy at first but he and I are equally bonded and he's pretty happy these days (almost 11).

Don't worry about the toll on your body; true it does change you but if you take care of yourself it's not that big of a deal. Besides, you're going to get old and all of those things will happen anyway. If you don't want kids that's different and you shouldn't have them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SimplyAmorous

lifeistooshort said:


> Me too. * I never babysat and didn't really care for kids, but the moment I saw my first everything changed. He looked at me and smiled right after he was born and we bonded instantly. * The doctor told me it was just gas but I didn't believe him; that baby smiled at me and we've been tight ever since (he's 13 now). My second wasn't so happy at first but he and I are equally bonded and he's pretty happy these days (almost 11).
> 
> Don't worry about the toll on your body; true it does change you but if you take care of yourself it's not that big of a deal. Besides, you're going to get old and all of those things will happen anyway. If you don't want kids that's different and you shouldn't have them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was like this.. I didn't have much family, never around babies ..I don't even think I ever held one.. until I had our 1st son..it all came so natural (the mother -son bonding, knowing what to do)...I was in Heaven... he was so good, I just wanted to have another one -right away!.. but that didn't happen... 

I really wanted my own Family.. We tried immediately & was pregnant in 3 months.. but then we couldn't... it took another 7 yrs.. as far as the Body.. Heck, I've had 6 C-sections... He still loves and adores my body.. and it's all good...he sees my stretch marks as the battle scars of our children..its a beautiful thing.. 

I am not a person who likes RISK.. very safety conscious, but when it came to having Babies.. that was blown to the wind.. when you want something bad enough..when it is a heart's desire... you will fight for it and be willing to go to the ends of the earth. also go under "the knife".. which I did after years of infertility .....all kinds of tests...endometrial biopsy, dye in my tubes, drugs, post coital test... still nothing... so I had an exploratory laparoscopy surgery.. been sliced open quite a few times ! So thankful I live today.

As far as the Pastor, ya know...he was being presumptuous...I really don't understand why someone would DO what he did -without having more indept conversations with you as a couple, talking to you personally about your hopes, dreams.. Obviously the man doesn't sit down & really LEARN of those he preaches to.. and this .. I think is a little sad. 

I don't go to church anymore, but it is ONE thing I adored about my Pastor, he was always seeking to learn about People, ya know...and cater to their individual needs and wants.. I learned A LOT about communication from that man.


----------



## FormerSelf

When we went to church, we were constantly asked about our plans for a child. Wife very uncomfortable with having a child because of her rough past...which I was fine with...but we just never expected to get asked about it so often at church..and people just need to get that sometimes the issue of child-bearing may involve some heavy issues with shame and whatnot. 

My wife already has social anxiety, so the stress of being bugged about it began to get to her...not to mention that if you don't have kids, you rarely get included in the women's activities...NOT that my wife would go anyway. But like I mentioned in another thread, my wife was told by a youth pastor's b****-a** wife that she was committing abortion being on the pill. If you are judging, you aren't f****** helping!


----------



## SimplyAmorous

FormerSelf said:


> *my wife was told by a youth pastor's b****-a** wife that she was committing abortion being on the pill.*


 I've never heard this one! ...Somehow we got on birth control in my Mops group , this friend of mine is a Christian Doula.....when I shared with her how much I loved my IUD... I got a lesson in how the baby is conceived then the IUD kills it, that I've probably had umteen abortions.... I listened to her.. the whole thing.. then told her I still loved my IUD.. so I guess I was admitting I was a murderer.. oh well...can't please 'em all !


----------



## ScarletBegonias

ROFL dafuq?! Are they serious?? 

IUD's do not allow a baby to be conceived.Birth control pills do not allow a baby to be conceived. If she's a doula she should try to study up a bit and get her facts straight.


----------



## Cynthia

ScarletBegonias said:


> ROFL dafuq?! Are they serious??
> 
> IUD's do not allow a baby to be conceived.Birth control pills do not allow a baby to be conceived. If she's a doula she should try to study up a bit and get her facts straight.


There is a scientific basis for the belief that IUDs and birth control pills can cause loss of human life. 
Once the sperm unites with the egg, a zygote is formed. The zygote is the first stage of human life. The zygote attaches to the uterine wall where it continues to develop.
According to WebMD, “ There are two types of IUDs available in the United States. One type releases the hormone progestin, which causes the cervical mucus to become thicker so the sperm cannot reach the egg. The hormone also changes the lining of the uterus, so implantation of a fertilized egg cannot occur. There are two hormone IUDs available: Mirena can be used for up to 5 years and the Skyla can be implanted for up to 3 years.
The other type doesn't use hormones. It contains copper, which is slowly released into the uterine cavity. The copper stops the sperm from making it through the vagina and uterus to reach the egg, thus preventing fertilization. There is one copper IUD available, the ParaGard T380A, which can be kept in place for up to 10 years.” http://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/iud-intrauterine-device
According to babycenter.com, “In the unlikely event that an egg does get fertilized and survives, both IUDs cause inflammation in the uterus that makes it harder for the egg to implant there.” http://www.babycenter.com/0_intrauterine-device-iud_3564.bc
How often this happens is unknown and there is probably no way to evaluate that.
Birth control pills have more than one function. First they inhibit ovulation. If a woman doesn't ovulate, she cannot become pregnant. This is the primary function of birth control pills. However, they do not always work. For various reasons, there is a chance that ovulation will not be inhibited and an egg will be released. In this case, the secondary function of the pill comes into play. The hormones in the pill change the uterine wall and can make it difficult for a zygote to implant. Also if a woman becomes pregnant, while continuing to take the pill, it can make the uterine environment unable to sustain the pregnancy.
“Estrogen and progestin are the main hormones in birth control pills. Estrogen causes the uterine lining to grow and thicken; progestin inhibits ovulation and changes the secretions in the vagina that makes sperm less likely to enter to uterus.” http://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/news/20030313/are-periods-obsolete
This is why people believe that IUDs and birth control pills can cause the death of a human being. They believe that due to the fact that the zygote has complete human DNA and is the first stage of human development, that making the uterine lining hostile to its ability to attach is a form of abortion.
Pregnancy is defined as when the zygote implants in the uterine wall. Because of this, many people believe that it is okay to stop the zygote from implanting in the uterine wall, since the woman is technically not pregnant. The zygote cannot continue to develop if it does not implant.
https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Human_development_(biology).html . This is not a matter of being uninformed. It is a matter of whether or not you believe that a zygot is a human being.
I think the comments about IUDs and birth control pills should be answered as to why someone would believe those things since it is pertinent to the topic of this thread.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

"There are two types of IUDs available in the United States. One type releases the hormone progestin, which causes the cervical mucus to become thicker so the sperm cannot reach the egg. The hormone also changes the lining of the uterus, so implantation of a fertilized egg cannot occur. There are two hormone IUDs available: Mirena can be used for up to 5 years and the Skyla can be implanted for up to 3 years.

The other type doesn't use hormones. It contains copper, which is slowly released into the uterine cavity. The copper stops the sperm from making it through the vagina and uterus to reach the egg, thus preventing fertilization. There is one copper IUD available, the ParaGard T380A, which can be kept in place for up to 10 years."



So people are saying a fertilized egg is a baby. Alrighty then.


----------



## Cynthia

ScarletBegonias said:


> So people are saying a fertilized egg is a baby. Alrighty then.


Not quite.
The zygote is not technically a fertilized egg. It is often referred to that way, but technically it is no longer an egg, so in reality there is no such thing as a fertilized human egg. Once the sperm hits the egg, it is no longer a sperm or an egg. It is a zygote.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

CynthiaDe said:


> Not quite.
> The zygot is not technically a fertilized egg. It is often referred to that way, but technically it is no longer an egg, so in reality there is no such thing as a fertilized human egg. Once the sperm hits the egg, it is no longer a sperm or an egg. It is a zygot.


I don't consider that a baby so I imagine that's why I think the doula is FOS for saying what she said to SA.
Also,thanks for all the technical information.


----------



## Cynthia

ScarletBegonias said:


> I don't consider that a baby so I imagine that's why I think the doula is FOS for saying what she said to SA.
> Also,thanks for all the technical information.


Exactly. It is a difference in opinion about when human life begins.
Hopefully she doesn't have the same view of your opinion, but can understand that we all have them and they are not all the same.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

CynthiaDe said:


> Exactly. It is a difference in opinion about when human life begins.
> Hopefully she doesn't have the same view of your opinion, but can understand that we all have them and they are not all the same.


I really don't care if she does or not so it's all good.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

ScarletBegonias said:


> *I don't consider that a baby so I imagine that's why I think the doula is FOS for saying what she said to SA.
> Also,thanks for all the technical information.*





> *CynthiaDe said*: *Exactly. It is a difference in opinion about when human life begins.
> Hopefully she doesn't have the same view of your opinion, but can understand that we all have them and they are not all the same*.


 Actually I respect my friends opinion.. I will listen to anyone and try to understand their point of view..I WANT TO LEARN and expand my knowledge, I wasn't overly offended by this... after our conversation that day.. I went to the internet and learned some things..I remember reading how the Jewish view of life was very different from the christian view ...example...



> Most often in Jewish sacred literature, a fetus in the womb is considered a human life “under construction.” The soul is usually described as arriving when the first breath of life is taken at birth. The primary Jewish imagery for the beginning of life comes from Genesis 1:2, where breath hovers above the waters of earth before life emerges from that cosmic womb. Then, in Genesis 2:7, after the body of Adam is fashioned from the clay of the earth, G*d is described as breathing life into him. These stories frame the basis for the Jewish view that the fetus gains full human rights and status only once the baby’s head has emerged from the birth canal [Ohalot 7:6].


 So really who is to say who is right or wrong...there are various views on LIFE in this regard.. 

This lady (and I do call her a friend)...she & her family comes to all our Parties, Bonfires, brings her kids... she knows I no longer call myself a christian ...has accepted this...(maybe she prays for me, I don't know)...I was even foolish enough to mention porn once.. but ya know.. She still seems to LIKE me / laugh with me... so I don't think her feeling I am aborting umteen fetus's or zygots -due to my IUD is playing too much on her mind.. ha ha 

Here is an interesting breakdown ....Different scientific views on when life begins. - BabyCenter.

And this article : When Does Life Begin? Medical Experts Debate Abortion Issue



> Biologist Scott Gilbert, an expert in human development, tells us that there are at least four distinct moments that can be thought of as the beginning of human life. Each can be said to be biologically accurate.
> 
> *The Genetic view* (the position held by the Roman Catholic Church and many religious conservatives) holds that life begins with the acquisition of a novel genome; it is a kind of genetic determinism.
> 
> The Survival Doctor's Guides to Burns and Wounds, by @James HubbardThose who hold the *Embryologic view* think life begins when the embryo undergoes gastrulation, and twinning is no longer possible; this occurs about 14 days into development. (Some mainline Protestant religions espouse a similar view.)
> 
> Proponents of the *Neurological view* adhere to brainwave criteria; life begins when a distinct EEG pattern can be detected, about 24 to 27 weeks. (Some Protestant churches affirm this.) Interestingly, life is also thought to end when the EEG pattern is no longer present.
> 
> Finally, one can say that life begins *at or near birth*, measured by fetal viability outside the mother’s body. (Judaism affirms something close to this position.) After all, somewhere between 50 and 60 percent of all embryos conceived miscarry.
> 
> So, when does life begin? I do not think we can know this with any more certainty than we know when life ends. People of faith, and people of good conscience, are going to have to agree to disagree—with a good dose of humility—on matters of life and death.


----------



## FormerSelf

I don't take issue with seeing a zygote as human life...but (in our experience) I would rather someone gently provide the info...and not in a reactionary way, followed with shunning. In our case, my wife was shamed and had no recourse. Oh well.


----------



## Cynthia

FormerSelf said:


> I don't take issue with seeing a zygote as human life...but (in our experience) I would rather someone gently provide the info...and not in a reactionary way, followed with shunning. In our case, my wife was shamed and had no recourse. Oh well.


I agree. We are to not to condemn, but to speak from a heart of loving concern.


----------



## Anonymous07

EleGirl said:


> If you really don't want a child, do not have any. It's not something to do just because you feel pressured by the church or society.


:iagree:

If you don't want to have kids, don't have them. I would not want to be the child from a mom who was unhappy that I ruined her body or she was just "ok" with the idea of having a baby(doesn't exactly make the child feel wanted).

I've always wanted kids. Yeah, pregnancy and childbirth are not always fun, but the reward of having a child has been so worth it. Now, with my son almost at a year old, the stretch marks have faded and I have been back at my pre-pregnancy weight for several months. I love being a mom.


----------



## Adeline

I don't know if this is deviating too much from the OP... but in regards to birth control, denomination wise, where does the view that birth control=no bueno fall in the Christian realm? Is it mainly within the Catholic church? I grew up in a very conservative Christian home, and yet not only was I never told birth control was bad, my mother encouraged me to go on it when I got married. I grew up in an Evangelical church, for reference. I never knew there were such views on the pill until I got older.


----------



## Cynthia

Adeline said:


> I don't know if this is deviating too much from the OP... but in regards to birth control, denomination wise, where does the view that birth control=no bueno fall in the Christian realm? Is it mainly within the Catholic church? I grew up in a very conservative Christian home, and yet not only was I never told birth control was bad, my mother encouraged me to go on it when I got married. I grew up in an Evangelical church, for reference. I never knew there were such views on the pill until I got older.


As people have become aware of the ways that certain birth control methods work, many people have not wanted to use them. Most Christians do not think that birth control is wrong, as long as it stops conception from happening in the first place, but when they find out that some forms of birth control can end the life of an already conceived human it limits their birth control choices.
There are many people who use barrier methods of birth control, the Fertility Awareness Method or a combination of the two due to not wanting to interfere with the development of the zygote or embryo. Most Protestants believe stopping the sperm and egg from uniting in the first place is fine. Although there are Protestants that believe like the Catholics do, that birth control is interfering with the body’s natural process and should not be used. I won’t go into a theological discussion about. I don’t know of any Protestant churches in my area that teach this, except some very conservative Mennonite denominations.
Catholic teaching is that stopping the natural process of the sperm meeting the egg is wrong by any means. They do teach fertility awareness which requires abstinence during the fertile phase.
It is very difficult to practice only fertility awareness, because a woman’s sexual desire is at its peak during the fertile phase. When a woman is in this phase, she is generally more affectionate and physical, which makes it extremely difficult for couples to abstain. This is why you may have heard that it doesn’t work. It does work, but who can do it? lol That is why people who believe that barrier methods are fine often use fertility awareness and a barrier method during the woman’s fertile phase.
Edited to add: I don’t think this deviates from the topic, because it explains why some Christians are becoming more conservative in the use of birth control and on the topic of family planning in general, which goes to the OP’s questions in the first place.


----------



## Anonymous07

CynthiaDe said:


> It is very difficult to practice only fertility awareness, because a woman’s sexual desire is at its peak during the fertile phase. When a woman is in this phase, she is generally more affectionate and physical, which makes it extremely difficult for couples to abstain. This is why you may have heard that it doesn’t work. It does work, but who can do it?


I do agree about what you said in regards to Catholic teaching. They do believe that all birth control is wrong. I am Catholic myself, but don't follow that belief. 

As for the above quote, that is actually incorrect. The reason many say fertility awareness does not work is because it does not always work. It is possible for a woman to have all signs of ovulation(but not ovulate until later), her basal body temp can be affected by other things(illness, alcohol, time of day, etc.), cervical mucus can change for other reasons which makes it difficult to follow, and, in general, it is very difficult for women with irregular periods(for many different reasons). From a medical standpoint, I would never recommend a woman use it as a sole form of birth control. It is not reliable at all. The failure rate is similar to the pull-out method, it's just not a good idea.


----------



## Adeline

interesting! yeah I was always told the purpose of the pill was to prevent ovulation, but that it also caused other inhospitable changes for pregnancy in the uterus. But that, if taken correctly, the former should be the function and not the latter. But I've always used a secondary form of birth control though because I'm paranoid, apparently. Whenever I thought of religious sects that were against birth control/equating it to abortion, I always thought of the Catholic Church and the Quiverfull movement.


----------



## Cynthia

Anonymous07 said:


> As for the above quote, that is actually incorrect. The reason many say fertility awareness does not work is because it does not always work. It is possible for a woman to have all signs of ovulation(but not ovulate until later), her basal body temp can be affected by other things(illness, alcohol, time of day, etc.), cervical mucus can change for other reasons which makes it difficult to follow, and, in general, it is very difficult for women with irregular periods(for many different reasons). From a medical standpoint, I would never recommend a woman use it as a sole form of birth control. It is not reliable at all. The failure rate is similar to the pull-out method, it's just not a good idea.


I don't entirely agree here. If someone says they are using the fertility awareness method, but they have sex when they know she is fertile, it is still counted as a failure, even though they weren't technically using the method, because they had sex knowing she was fertile. That would throw the numbers way off.
It is true that different things can impact the signs, but if a woman has been charting for a long time, she will know when she is or is not fertile with a high degree of accuracy. This is why it can also be used to get pregnant.
However, it is certainly possible for the fertility awareness method to fail for the above reasons that you mentioned. I just don't think that the statistics are accurate due to people saying they use the method when in reality, they had sex when they knew there was a high risk for pregnancy. I actually know people who used the fertility awareness method and got pregnant, but they also knew they were fertile when they did, but that doesn't mean they didn't use the method. I hope that made sense.  
I'm not saying there aren't failures, just that I do not believe it is as high as statistics would have us believe.


----------



## Thundarr

QuietSoul, why are you spending time on TAM. Shouldn't you be making babies for your empty rooms? ehh just kidding.


----------



## Aspydad

CynthiaDe said:


> I don't entirely agree here. If someone says they are using the fertility awareness method, but they have sex when they know she is fertile, it is still counted as a failure, even though they weren't technically using the method, because they had sex knowing she was fertile. That would throw the numbers way off.
> It is true that different things can impact the signs, but if a woman has been charting for a long time, she will know when she is or is not fertile with a high degree of accuracy. This is why it can also be used to get pregnant.
> However, it is certainly possible for the fertility awareness method to fail for the above reasons that you mentioned. I just don't think that the statistics are accurate due to people saying they use the method when in reality, they had sex when they knew there was a high risk for pregnancy. I actually know people who used the fertility awareness method and got pregnant, but they also knew they were fertile when they did, but that doesn't mean they didn't use the method. I hope that made sense.
> I'm not saying there aren't failures, just that I do not believe it is as high as statistics would have us believe.


Fertility awareness method - first I have heard it called that. My wife called it the "timing method" and I will attest that it does not work worth a darn!! Now, I am glad it does not work as my middle daughter is a result of that method! Wife went off the pill for one month because it was affecting her bad - doctor said she had to go one month before starting the new pill. So she comes up with this timing method deal and I thought she had it all figured out - I thought wrong! As a matter of fact - we only did it one time that month as I was out of the country for two weeks and was sick when I got back - when I got better we finally got together and did it once during the only time you supposedly can't get pregnant - yah right!

When she told me she was pregnant, what do you think my first thought was?

Have you all seen "Father of the Bride II"? The doctor office scene?


----------



## Cynthia

Aspydad said:


> Fertility awareness method - first I have heard it called that. My wife called it the "timing method" and I will attest that it does not work worth a darn!! Now, I am glad it does not work as my middle daughter is a result of that method! Wife went off the pill for one month because it was affecting her bad - doctor said she had to go one month before starting the new pill. So she comes up with this timing method deal and I thought she had it all figured out - I thought wrong! As a matter of fact - we only did it one time that month as I was out of the country for two weeks and was sick when I got back - when I got better we finally got together and did it once during the only time you supposedly can't get pregnant - yah right!
> 
> When she told me she was pregnant, what do you think my first thought was?
> 
> Have you all seen "Father of the Bride II"? The doctor office scene?


lol You can't do the fertility awareness after a month! The timing method that your wife used is not the fertility awareness method. The fertility awareness methods involves months of charting all sorts of things including temperature before a person can have any clue about when she is fertile or not. It is very involved. I wouldn't recommend that anyone rely on it unless they have been charting for at least a year.


----------



## Anonymous07

CynthiaDe said:


> I don't entirely agree here. If someone says they are using the fertility awareness method, but they have sex when they know she is fertile, it is still counted as a failure, even though they weren't technically using the method, because they had sex knowing she was fertile. That would throw the numbers way off.
> It is true that different things can impact the signs, but if a woman has been charting for a long time, she will know when she is or is not fertile with a high degree of accuracy. This is why it can also be used to get pregnant.
> However, it is certainly possible for the fertility awareness method to fail for the above reasons that you mentioned. I just don't think that the statistics are accurate due to people saying they use the method when in reality, they had sex when they knew there was a high risk for pregnancy. I actually know people who used the fertility awareness method and got pregnant, but they also knew they were fertile when they did, but that doesn't mean they didn't use the method. I hope that made sense.
> I'm not saying there aren't failures, just that I do not believe it is as high as statistics would have us believe.


I'll just have to agree to disagree. I know plenty of people(many Catholic friends) who followed it well(they teach the method at certain church seminars) and ended up pregnant, myself included. 

I spent several months charting, keeping track of temperature, cervical mucus, etc. and "knew" my body(charted cervical mucus for well over a year, spent months charting temps). We did not have sex during what I noticed was my fertile window, but still ended up pregnant with my son. I'm not complaining, as I love my son. He is an amazing kid who just came earlier than planned. I also have endometriosis with different cycle lengths each month, so that made things a bit more difficult, but I thought I had it all down. I used the method because I can't use hormones(for medical reasons - would land me in the hospital), but after having my son, we switched to barrier methods. It's more annoying, but I at least know the failure rate is a lot less. 

It's also important to know that sperm can survive for up to a week inside the woman in the right conditions. It's easy for ovulation to be delayed by other factors, making it risky. Cycles can change, so even if the woman has been charting for over a year, something can happen and the woman can easily end up pregnant. It's not a reliable form of birth control.


----------



## the2ofus

I've met people who've gotten pregnant while using NFP/FAM but I have never met anyone that when asked questions by 2 of my friends (both instructors) couldn't see where they got pregnant and why. Not saying they don't happen. One of the instructors got pregnant when she wasn't planning on it but she said she got lazy and wasn't taking her temp and ended up having mucus again and knew she was probably in trouble. Not arguing for FAM it can be very difficult to follow.

The morning after pill works as a high dose birth control, and people argue about the morning after pill all the time. But as SA pointed out there are many beliefs as to when life begins, to impose your beliefs on others is quite arrogant. And to shun someone is beyond words, sorry some of you have had to go thru that.

As to the original question from working in healthcare I can tell you that your bodies shape depends more on your care and your genetic makeup then whether you've had kids. I've had patients who had incontinence issues that never had kids, I've had 6 kids and I'm small and have had a 9.5 lb baby and have no problem with incontinence. Hormones change over time whether or not you have kids. Yes things will change but time will do that even if you don't have kids. So I wouldn't let that determine having a baby or not. What should determine it is, do you want to have a child, does your husband want a child?


----------



## lifeistooshort

I'm sorry, I as much as I respect the beliefs of others I have to chuckle at the argument that life begins at conception. This is based on the argument that zygotes display the scientific attributes of life; fair enough, but so do sperm. That makes every man who masturbates to completion a murderer. If birth control prevents life so does male masturbation. I don't see this issue coming up.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 6301

Problem is your trying too hard. Wont work that way

My first wife tried until I was chapped and so was she. The longer we tried the more we failed.

I know this part sounds really terrible and I DON'T RECOMMEND IT, but she was going to work, was in a car accident and was pretty sore after it considering it destroyed the car. The doctor gave her muscle relaxers and one day, POOF, she was pregnant. She was relaxed and so was I.

Please don't go out and wreck the car, but stop fretting and just relax. Worked for us.


----------



## jld

ScarletBegonias said:


> I really don't care if she does or not so it's all good.


----------

