# My marriage in disparate need of help



## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

I have been married for 15 years. 
I'm from Scotland and my wife is a kiwi that I met in Scotland. 
She was over starting a life in Scotland because of she had family in Scotland and I know she didn't come from a loving family over in new zealand. Her dad was an alcoholic and her mother remarried and physically abused her. 
I found out she often ran away from home. 
Well when I met her I didnt know any of this.
And I used to visit her in England where she was working and she would visit me 
In Scotland. 
She then decided to move in with me she just appeared at my door with her bags. 
I got a good job and decided to take her to new zealand. We there for a month on holiday. 
Her family did nothing but abuse me but I put up with it for my wife's sake. 
Then two weeks into my holiday I suggested that maybe one day we could get married. She jumped up out of bed and announced to her family that we were going to get married. Her mother congratulated me and so did the rest of the family. 
It wasn't what I was meaning. I meant get married sometime In the future but the ball had started rolling and I felt I could not go back on it. 
Maybe fear that she would not return back to Scotland. 
So we got married. I was by myself and had no one to support me. I was mortified but done it. 
So after that we returned to Scotland. 
My marriage has been a nightmare. She is control freak twisted individual that has manipulated,stole,lied,blackmailed. 
We had a beautiful daughter and she blackmailed me to new zealand saying that she would take her back if I didn't come so I had to sell my house for the fare over here. My family believe that she nothing but evil and twisted and that u should leave her but I couldn't because of my daughter. 
I have been living in new zealand for 7 years now and she's totally out of control I don't know what to do any more. I love my daughter do much and I don't want to leave her but I have nobody for support as all my family is in Scotland


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

See a lawyer, first thing. That way you will know EXACTLY where you stand legally and the best course of action that will not rob you of your time with your daughter.

Second step, man up, and divorce her. Remember -> If you don't, you'll be stuck in this mess for the rest of your life.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks for your reply I will look into it tomorrow.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Also it be great to know my rights from anybody that knows. 
Can I ask my wife to leave or can I get her removed as the house is rented in my name as she is the one thats swearing and taunting me.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

She is a difficult woman with a disfunctional family. If you live in a rental home, consider leaving. If she's nasty and manipulative, she may try to get you into a fight and then call the police and claim abuse. Find out about your rights to joint custody and visitation.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks we just moved. I will consider moving as I don't see any other way forward 
Thanks


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

dave626 said:


> Her dad was an alcoholic and her mother remarried and physically abused her.... My marriage has been a nightmare. She is control freak twisted individual that has manipulated,stole,lied,blackmailed.


Dave, I agree with RandomDude and Bobby that you should divorce her if she is behaving as badly as you describe. Most often, it is best to walk away and not look back -- making no effort to figure out what is wrong with her. Yet, because she will be sharing custody of your daughter for another 10 years or so, it should be worth your while to know what it is you are dealing with.

If I had to guess, I would say you are describing the selfish, vindictive, immature behavior of a person having strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), NPD (Narcissistic PD), or AsPD (Antisocial PD). Because I lived with a BPDer for 15 years, I describe BPD traits in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If those traits sound familiar, you could benefit from the shared experiences in a message board called "Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD" at BPDfamily.com. 

If those traits do not ring a bell, I suggest you read about the red flags for NPD and AsPD. Also, given what is at stake (your daughter), it would be prudent to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid, professional opinion on what it is your are dealing with. Take care, Dave.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks Dave that is most helpful. 
Thanks


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks uptown that is most helpful.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Wow that's amazing for the first time in my marriage I understand what I'm dealing with it sounds like she's got BPD this morning she is all nice and loving again and said I should stop nit picking at her. 
I have no idea what she's talking about then she made up these events of what I was suppose to have said which I didnt. 
I was thinking about talking to her sister about it?
But the thread I read is exactly her. 
Thanks


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Dave, I'm glad to hear you found the BPD information useful. Because you believe it does apply to your W, I have several suggestions. As an initial matter, I recommend that you NOT tell her about your suspicions. If she is a BPDer (i.e., has moderate to strong BPD traits), she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Because projection works at the subconscious level, she would likely be convinced that you are the one having such traits. Hence, instead of telling her, it is better to simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her.

Second, if you think you may stay with her a while, I suggest you get _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, the best-selling BPD book targeted to spouses like you. Or, if you are decided to get a divorce instead, it would be better to get _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist._ Both books are written by the same author.

Third, I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. This issue is such an enormous problem that that website is growing by 20 new members every day. The result is that it offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The ones that likely will be most helpful to you are the _"Staying"_ board, _"Leaving"_ board, and _"Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD"_ board.

Fourth, while you are at BPDfamily.com, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is "Surviving a Breakup with Someone with BPD" at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York.

Fifth, I again suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with -- and how likely it is she may have passed it down to your daughter (although that is unlikely, there is an increased risk). As I've explained in many other threads, your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists are loath to tell high functioning BPDers the name of the disorder (to protect the sick client).

Finally, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping other members and guests.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks uptown and everybody that has giving me good advice. 
I will definitely let you know my outcome.


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## bahbahsheep (Sep 6, 2012)

I am so sorry to hear that - I think she had some issues with herself which has nothing to do with this relationship or you at all.

Also, I felt that she saw you (meaning related to you as a partner and now wife) as a solution to all her problems in life - which should not be the way a relationship should be based upon.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks for you comment baabaasheep I think your right on that but I did not know much about her back ground. 
People in her family were dropping me hints but I thought they were trying to be rude.


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## bahbahsheep (Sep 6, 2012)

dave626 said:


> Thanks for you comment baabaasheep I think your right on that but I did not know much about her back ground.
> People in her family were dropping me hints but I thought they were trying to be rude.



I have seen it before from other people and just imagining it makes me cringe so I know it must be very difficult being in it.

Sometimes I think it takes beyond love to "repair" her issues. 

You really have to strong-arm her and tell her directly that this is why there is a problem, even if it makes her upset.



What you see today of her is a result of her growing up in her younger years. 

Have you heard of the saying that "Only the one who tied the knot to a bell knows how to untie it."

It doesn't matter what her background is because her background is her own private experience and you had no part into creating the person you know of today - the only way she can get out of it is if she herself realises it. 



Her background may help you sympathise her with her situation and perhaps come up with ideas to help / guide her in the right direction.

By the way, my understanding of kiwis are that they enjoy travelling because NZ is just too far from the rest of the world! 
Is she one of those who enjoys travelling? (I know it sounds daft because you have lived in NZ for 7 years and for her as well)


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

I think she does like traveling but it was her that wanted to come back to new zealand after 10 years in Scotland the only reason that she wanted to move was because my family caught on to her deceit. For example my bank account was being emptied after working hard all week. My sister had a look at my bank account and seen that she wasn't paying any bills lying saying that she had pushing us further into debt.
She didn't like my family finding out what she was truly like.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Well it's been a while since I last spoke and I'm updating my progress with my wife. 
I'm sorry to say I still haven't filed for divorce regrettably because thing haven't got better just a million times worse. 
But I'm glad to say she finally realises she has borderline personality disorder. 
So she booked a appointment for Tuesday next week. 
There are heaps of YouTube examples of the illness. 
I'm glad to say I'm relieved to the information that is on offer. 
I still know I'm going to divorce and separate from her.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Dave, thanks for returning to give us an update. I was wondering how you and your family are doing. I'm sorry to hear you're still married -- but am glad that you are still close enough to remain in your daughter's young life.


dave626 said:


> I'm glad to say she finally realises she has borderline personality disorder.


If she really does have BPD, her perception of "reality" is whatever intense feeling she's experiencing at the moment. Hence, what she believes today may have little to do with what she believes tomorrow or next week. Granted, a small portion of BPDers -- I would guess 3 percent -- do become sufficiently self aware to recognize they have strong BPD traits. Even then, however, most of them don't have sufficient ego strength to be willing to remain in therapy long enough -- or work hard enough -- to make a real difference in their behavior.


> So she booked a appointment for Tuesday next week.


For her sake, I hope she will follow through with it and work hard in therapy. I am skeptical because, given that BPDers typically are incapable of trusting anyone close to them, it is rare for a BPDer to trust the therapist enough to remain in therapy.


> There are heaps of YouTube examples of the illness.


BPD is not an illness. Specifically, it is not something like chickenpox that one "has" or "doesn't have." Rather, it is simply a set of basic human behavioral traits that every person on the planet exhibits to some degree. This is why it is called a "spectrum disorder." At issue, then, is not whether your W has BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Instead, at issue is whether she has these traits at a strong and persistent level. When they are strong, the traits will undermine and destroy her close relationships with other people.

This terminology is confusing because, in all medical fields, a "disorder" refers to a specific disease. In psychology, however, this term is often used to refer to dysfunctional behavior even when no disease is involved.


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

Uptown said:


> Dave, I'm glad to hear you found the BPD information useful. Because you believe it does apply to your W, I have several suggestions..


Wow Uptown, your introduction to BPD is quite honestly the most profoundly insightful psychoanalytical summary I've read to date.

I've only been participating in these forums for a week or so now but already I've garnered a veritable treasure trove of invaluable psychological principles.

It had never occurred to me that my ex laboured under such a pitifully debilitating handicap. I can't even begin to imagine how terrifying it must be to live one's life without certainty, emotional stability or even a consistent identity.

I still feel guilty for my part, no matter how well intentioned, in further prolonging her seemingly perpetual cycle of despair but on reading your eloquent synopsis, I'm glad I found the strength to force closure.

Ironically, it was the 'man up' principle that helped me to rediscover my self-esteem but I'm ashamed to say that I've been misdiagnosing BPD as chronic narcissism.

One of the recent posters going by the alias 'Jarhead', has been describing in some detail, his desperate state of confusion with regards to his wife's seemingly 'endless cycle of affairs' as he puts it. Her erratic emotional state has become so pronounced that his marriage has become untenable yet he persists in his efforts to 'fix her'.

I suggested he familiarise himself with the concept of 'manning up' in the hopes that he would be able to alter the dynamics of power within their powder keg marriage but now I see that far from improving his position, it may well lead to her becoming even more resentful.

I guess that's the danger of amateur psychoanalysis, I can only cross reference familiar facts with my own limited empirical understanding of a vast field of study.


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

..and Dave, I feel for you, your wife and your daughter.

You, because of your altruistic nature. Your wife, because no sane person would volunteer for such a thankless state of existence and your daughter, because she was never going to have an 'ideal' upbringing.

Uptown's exhaustive assessment of BPD sufferers alluded briefly to an underlying insecurity inherent in most, if not all, 'nice guys'. I would certainly attest to that theory and perhaps it's the same for you. In any case, I think what we've learned from these boards could serve us well should we decide to tackle our own underlying insecurities.

I'm only starting to grasp the sheer complexity of human psychology and its wider social implications but I confess, I'm hooked. 

Good luck Dave, I'll be rooting for you!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You are really learning a lot here, Applejuice. I feel the same.


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

jld said:


> You are really learning a lot here, Applejuice. I feel the same.


Why Thank you jld, I appreciate the motivation! 

I love reading your posts, even after contributing nearly 2000 of them you still seem to be fascinated with the human mind. I'm only surprised that it's taken us this long to discover its potential. lol

whoops.. OVER 2000 posts lol... you're a machine!!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Applejuice said:


> Why Thank you jld, I appreciate the motivation!
> 
> I love reading your posts, even after contributing nearly 2000 of them you still seem to be fascinated with the human mind. I'm only surprised that it's taken us this long to discover its potential. lol
> 
> whoops.. OVER 2000 posts lol... you're a machine!!


Lol. Some people have given me grief over it, because I have only been here 3 mos. I have just been fascinated by this place.

I don't get a lot of interaction with other adults, as a homeschooling SAHM. And IRL, I would not have this much variety, nor this depth of conversation. TAM is obviously meeting deep needs in me for meaningful conversation with other adults.

I wonder how I survived before, lol.

What brought you here, Applejuice?


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

jld said:


> Lol. Some people have given me grief over it, because I have only been here 3 mos. I have just been fascinated by this place.
> 
> I don't get a lot of interaction with other adults, as a homeschooling SAHM. And IRL, I would not have this much variety, nor this depth of conversation. TAM is obviously meeting deep needs in me for meaningful conversation with other adults.
> 
> ...


Hahaha, giving you grief? Just pulling your leg I hope! It reassures me to see a regular contingent of prolific contributors here because you can volunteer suggestions with some degree of authority. Hell, I imagine some of the members here are even practicing psychologists and counselors.

As an 'INFJ' and born again Jungian lol, I also don't get out much but unlike you, my barriers are strictly psychological, not practical but as you so perceptively noted, it's a rare thing to be able to indulge in so much profoundly meaningful discourse in real life social scenarios. I usually find myself trying to subtly subvert the conversation away from trivial small-talk but then feel ashamed for monopolising the conversation lol.

Yes, I suspect even TaM, as a collective entity underestimates its enormous value to the individual and communities as a whole. I love the fact that it isn't pretentious or exclusively academic. The posters here are all very warm, inviting and empathetic. It feels accessible and constructive.

I found TaM by sheer dumb luck. I think I googled some obscure website but the mispelling was the alias used by one of the community. I read the little extract under the google entry and it was a heartfelt plea from one desperate poster attempting to assert himself. I had only recently split up and was finding it hard to come to terms with what had transpired. So, I clicked the link and hey presto!

When I read the post, I was immediately overwhelmed by a sense of solidarity - that I wasn't just a hopeless loser. I think Deejo had linked his 'man up' thread in one of his posts. I couldn't tear my eyes away, it just made so much sense. All the symptoms he described, the patterns of behaviour - it was so liberating. So I've been an advocate of the Deejo school of psychology ever since! lol

And what about you jld? How did you happen upon TaM?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think I can get banned for threadjacking, Applejuice, so I am going to answer you on pm, okay?

My apologies, OP.


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## Applejuice (Feb 21, 2014)

Woops.. sincerest apologies guys!


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Hi uptown and everyone who give me words of wisdom to my marriage. 
I have just been to the crisis unit for adult mental health unit with my wife. 
On Friday night she went into another rage so I took her to the doctor the following morning. 
I told my doctor about my wife's violent rages and need help urgently for my daughter and I are living in fear and we have established my wife has B.P.D 
So they sent us to the crisis adult mental health. 
We were met with two people who proceeded to take us into a room. 
They question my wife to the point I thought they where trying to find out if she was schizophrenic. 
Realising she was not it. I thought they where going to get to the bottom of what was wrong wife her and possibly get to identify her traits where strongly pointing towards bpd 
When ever I tried to speak they said they would get to me in a moment. 
When they did I told them her traits definitely point towards bpd
But they where quick on dismissing the fact and said that she was suffering from depression and decided to put her on medication. 
They just would not listen to me. 
They said in New Zealand such illness there is no funding and that we would need to pay and we should stick to the plan A
Then they gave us a leaflet to phone of all the free available options. 
I feel gutted at the help we got.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jld said:


> You are really learning a lot here, Applejuice. I feel the same.



Tomorrow's lecture by Dr. John: Creating an Alternate Universe For a Your BPD Spouse. Free Admission. Oops, time to run, I have to feed her unicorn 

Seriously, am I the one wondering about the all too frequent appearance of BPD in marital problems? Do some people have a radar that detects BPD and avoid it like the plague?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's not any better in this side if the pond Dave. Insurance does not pay for BPD (most insurance - ours does lolz for the good it has done to us), also the issue is whether competent therapists are around, etc etc. So it's not just an issue in New Zealand but here in the USA too.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

dave626 said:


> I told them her traits definitely point towards bpd. But they where quick on dismissing the fact and said that she was suffering from depression and decided to put her on medication. They just would not listen to me.
> They said in New Zealand such illness there is no funding and that we would need to pay and we should stick to the plan A.


Dave, I'm sorry to hear you found the therapist session to be such a disappointment. One possibility, of course, is that they truly believe she doesn't have strong BPD traits and you are mistaken about it. Another possibility, as John observes above, is that they are simply withholding that information from you, an action that is widespread here in the USA. This is why I said back in September 2012 (post #11 above) that your best chance of obtaining a candid professional opinion -- whenever BPD is a strong possibility -- is to see *your own psychologist*, i.e., one who is not treating or seeing your W. 

Therapists generally are loath to tell a BPDer -- much less tell her husband -- the name of her disorder. They routinely withhold this information from high functioning BPDers for the client's own protection. One reason is that insurance companies usually will refuse to pay for treatment when the diagnosis is listed as BPD. Hence, because BPD nearly always is accompanied by one or more "clinical" disorders -- all of which ARE covered by insurance -- it is common for therapists to include in the diagnosis only those co-occurring clinical disorders they observe (e.g., depression, anxiety, bipolar, PTSD, OCD, or ADHD). 

Another reason for withholding this BPD diagnosis is that it has such a negative social stigma that, on hearing such a diagnosis, nearly all high functioning BPDers will immediately terminate therapy. Moreover, there are other reasons as well. If you are interested, I provide a more detailed explanation for why this diagnosis is usually withheld in my post at Loath to Diagnose. 

The bottom line, then, is that your W's therapist is NOT YOUR FRIEND. Rather, he is simply a professional who is ethically bound to protect HER best interests, not yours. It therefore would be as foolish to rely on *her therapist *for candid advice during the marriage as it would be to rely on *her attorney* for candid advice during the divorce. For your own protection, it is prudent to see your own psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion based on your description of events and her behavior.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

My wife is desperate to try to get better and recover. 
She totally admits to this condition on her own free will after I had pointed out that bpd is a possibility. 
She wants to help herself to save our marriage. 
I would love to hear more from your post loath to diagnose. 
Also do I discuss this with my wife in you opinion?
I mean that fact that I see a physiologist?


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks everyone for advice. 
Much appreciated


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

dave626 said:


> I would love to hear more from your post loath to diagnose.


In that case, simply follow the link and read the post. If you have questions about it, I would be glad to try to answer them -- or point you to an article that can.


> Also do I discuss this with my wife in you opinion?
> I mean that fact that I see a physiologist?


Yes, I would tell her. Simply say you realize that, when two people have been in a toxic marriage for 15 years, both parties are _volunteers_ -- not victims. This means the toxicity is not something SHE has been doing to you. Rather, it is something you BOTH have been doing to each other. 

If she is a BPDer as you suspect, her contributions to the toxicity are easy to see because there is nothing subtle about temper tantrums, lack of trust, and black-white thinking. Your contributions, however, are far harder to see if -- like me -- you're an excessive caregiver. A psychologist can explain to you how you've been harming your W by "enabling" her childish behavior, i.e., by sheltering her from the consequences of that immature behavior. 

Although you've always felt you were only "trying to help," your actions have destroyed her opportunities to have to confront her own issues and learn how to fix them. By continually soothing and comforting her, for example, you have made it unnecessary for her to learn how to do self soothing -- a skill the rest of us learned in early childhood.

If she is a BPDer, conventional talk therapy will not help her at this time. Instead, what will be needed are specific instructions (as provided in programs such as DBT and CBT) on how to do self soothing, how to control one's own emotions, how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as "facts," how to remain in the moment instead of escaping into daydreams, how to better tolerate ambiguities and strong mixed feelings, and how to spot one's own black-white thinking so as to avoid it.

Whereas it typically takes BPDers at least several years to acquire such skills, the information an excessive caregiver requires might be provided in only a few therapy sessions. And if you are only interested in obtaining a second opinion about your W's issues, you may accomplish that in only one or two visits. 

I suggest you see a psychologist or a psychiatrist, both of whom have a Ph.D. in psychology. The difference is that a psychiatrist also has an M.D. in medicine so he can prescribe medications to treat clinical disorders. Hence, if you don't need medications, you can cut your bill in half by seeing a psychologist (thus paying for only one doctor's degree instead of two).

Your W may point out that it could be cheaper if you both went to the very same therapist because you won't have to spend time giving background information to two professionals. And that likely is true. If she raises that objection, I suggest you point out that you both were unhappy with the therapist you saw and you are going for a second opinion. You also could tell her that your issues, unlike BPD, may be resolved in only a few sessions on your own.

Importantly, do not tell your psychologist that you intend to later bring your W in to be treated by him. Make it clear that she will be seeing her own therapist. In this way, you are establishing that he is treating you alone and thus is ethically bound to protect YOUR interests, not hers. Of course, he will NOT be able to render a formal diagnosis of your W without seeing her. Yet, based on your 15 years of experience with her, he certainly will be able to say "it sounds to me like you're dealing with...." 

Because he is not treating her, he likely will be willing to speak candidly to you because it will not go into the record. He thus does not have to worry about the insurance company refusing to pay for your therapy session. Nor does he have to worry about her quitting therapy on hearing his opinion. 

Finally, Dave, I should note that psychologists are more reluctant to diagnose BPD in some countries (e.g., European countries) than they are here in the USA. I don't know a thing about how they are in New Zealand. The best I can tell, from the movies, is that they all live in earth-covered dwellings with perfectly round doors, LOL.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks uptown for your amazing advice I will follow through and let you know my progress


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Well I can truly say I'm defeated uptown you were right in what you were saying she's even worse ten fold she now denying these anything wrong with her. 
She's constantly blaming me for whats went wrong. 
Totally not interested in going to therapy. 
I'm at my wits end again. 
She keep threating to leave me and my daughter. 
I would have to give up my job to get my daughter to school and pick her up. 
My daughter wants to stay with me. 
I totally lost in what to do next because I have no family in New Zealand.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

I want her to go as in not to give her the satisfaction but If I do I feel I would have to go back to Scotland because I would lose the house I rent and would lose my daughter and have no job.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Please help I'm desperate.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

This is all terrible news. It may be time to get defensive, and protect yourself and your daughter. Time to get to a good attorney and find out what must be done to shield yourself from any irrational things she might try.

Being far from home is tough, and seems to be adding to your despair. Unfortunately, there's no time for that now. You've got to accept reality, and confront it, no matter where your are.

Hopefully you've been documenting your wife's condition. If not, start immediately, and get all you can. For you're daughter's sake you must be strong, but also smart. Get good legal advice, and act on it. You must, and you are (sadly) the only responsible person in this nightmare.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Dave, I agree with Forest that this is all terrible news. I'm so sorry to hear that your family situation has deteriorated so badly and so quickly. Because you cannot care for your D and hold a job at the same time, it sure sounds like you need to return to Scotland where you have family who can assist you with childcare. Have you spoken with an attorney about what you have to do in New Zealand to be able to leave the country with your D without it being viewed as kidnapping?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Only one thing you can do and it's already been said twice: attorney.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

I think I can't take my daughter out if the country because I decided to take her to New Zealand. I'm not sure she was born in Scotland. I will take everyone's advice and go and see an attorney. 
Thanks so much for your advice. 
It is so appreciated. 
I will let you know how I get on.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

My wife told me she was raped when she was 12.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

dave626 said:


> My wife told me she was raped when she was 12.


My ex had sexual abuse in her past. I'm certain she was BPD too,
although never diagnosed, I did a ton of research and came to this conclusion on my own.

Dave; may I ask; do you have professional skills that will enable you to get a decent job back in your home country?

You need to run away from this situation with your daughter and start living a relatively stress free life. You've been through a nightmare.

I can identify. How many times did i sleep in the car during the night after one of her blow-ups?


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

Dave, I feel for your situation. Things you describe bring back very close similarities to the position I was in last year.

All of the threats are just that and rarely acted on...they are a measure of control for her to get her way. If she threatens and you respond, she has you under her control and will continue on with her manipulation. You must break free from this and not allow that form of control.
My ex used to threaten suicide as a way to control me. I put my foot down and called her bluff.
Don't take the abuse any longer. Don't feel like it is your responsibility to help her get better...only she can do this. So many things you described about your wife are just like my ex. One day she acknowledges she has a problem and the next thing you know it all gets twisted and is your fault for everything.
Like your situation, not a single therapist or doctor would be specific in her diagnosis, but everything I have read matches with the traits she had. They treated her for PTSD and depression. All it did was turn her into a zombie with no emotional base. All cares went out the window and she was numb...any spark of life became nonexistent.

My marriage lasted 14 years and that was simply because I took the verbal and physical abuse for far too long before I realized the real problem. I thought I could fix things and make her life happy. Only last year did I realize with the help of TAM that that feat was virtually impossible. I suffered from co-dependency to a degree that even I was in denial about how trapped I made myself.
The things people were telling me to do seemed cruel and not very compassionate, but only once I was able to step outside of my tightly closed box did I see the truth and logic in their suggestions.
It took some great self awareness to acknowledge my part in all of it, but can honestly say that without reaching out for help as I did, I'd probably still be trapped in the madness of it all.

Uptown is a wealth of knowledge and spot on with everything he has stated. He certainly helped guide me through my events and am truly thankful for the information he provided.


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

dave626 said:


> My wife told me she was raped when she was 12.


Only when she realized I was leaving her did she disclose some of her past that she would have rather kept secret. Some of it shocked me and I couldn't have ever imagined this was part of who she was, as it went against what I knew of her moral base.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

She broke down when I said I couldn't take anymore and I haven't got enough strength to go through another ten years of therapy after everything she has put me through. 
She said that she would let me take my daughter so I suggested getting that in writing through my lawyer. 
She then said she would get the lawyer to draught it up.
I will let you know what happens next. 
I don't know what to say to my daughter. 
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice. 
I will let you know what happens. 
Soon 
Thanks. Jorgegene,indyTMI,
I can totally relate to what You's are saying.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Dave, thanks for returning to give us another update on your situation in NZ.


> My wife told me she was raped when she was 12.


If your W has strong BPD traits as you suspect, this discovery is not surprising. As you likely know, there is a strong association between BPD and childhood abuse -- particularly sexual abuse. A recent large-scale study (pub. 2008 ) found that 70% of BPDer report that they had been abused or abandoned during childhood. And various studies have found that 40% to 76% of BPDers report that they were sexually abused as children. See, e.g., The Relationship Between Child Abuse and BPD.



dave626 said:


> She said that she would let me take my daughter so I suggested getting that in writing through my lawyer. She then said she would get the lawyer to draught it up.


When you're dealing with an unstable person, it is important to get the agreement in writing ASAP when she is in a mood to cooperate. As you know too well, that attitude of hers can change in ten seconds when her mood changes. If having your own attorney draw up the document would speed things up, it would be prudent to pursue that course.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

My wife worked for an emergency health agency and said that most borderlines can be spotted from their black/white thinking that they will jump back and forth in between a contrasting "I Love you/ I Hate you; Go away/ Don't leave Me" mentality. Borderlines also often display inappropriate sexual advances or suggestiveness...where police/social workers are often greeted by "F*** me", turning into "F*** you!" Borderlines are officially diagnosed as such when it is found that they have had pretty much a lifetime of relational instability. Wife often got calls from people convinced that their spouse was bipolar, when in fact it was borderline. But to get that official diagnosis requires being assessed, which takes time.

Bipolars typically have "expansive thinking," where they often make these fantastic plans that balloon out from euphoria...and they ride on this high where they bask in the brilliant wonderfulness and boundless energy until they burn out and crash into a deep, deep depression. Just wanted to contrast against BPD.

You wife could very well be BPD, but also perhaps likely PTSD, in which stress triggers need to be isolated and minimized as much as possible, for someone with PTSD who is constantly being triggered by things that challenge her sense of saftey will result in them acting like a crazy person too. My wife was abused as a child and ignored it and it really chipped away at her mental health...she wasn't BPD, but she was constantly being triggered to say "f*** the world, f*** the marriage" because stress and hypervigilance exceeded her coping ability. Something to consider.

However, if she refuses help, there is nothing you can do unless you have enough evidence to have her involuntarily committed and receive considerable treatment, which is why every time she has a significant episode, you call the mental health agency, so they can keep logging it into her file. But you have to ask yourself if you can endure this any longer...and if this is a healthy environment for your child. 

I know you have lots of fears, but you can't ride the waves of her emotional rollercoaster anymore. Mentally separate yourself from it where you can be clearminded enough to make the proper decision. If she truly won't get help for herself, then it probably is time to do the best thing for the both of you and go separate ways. Your child doesn't need to grow up under that and your wife needs the separation to know how to pull her own life together. Sadly, she isn't capable of being a wife or mom presently.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

She has since abandoned me and my daughter and is an alcoholic comes home and then abandones us making our lives unbearable


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

dave626 said:


> She has since abandoned me and my daughter and is an alcoholic comes home and then abandones us making our lives unbearable


Dave, buddy...

You have to find the part of yourself that was easily manipulated by her in the beginning, the same part of yourself that allowed you to marry her, go through all this, and then leave...

And you let her come home and leave again...

You need to find that part of yourself, expose it to the light, and kill it.

The reason that she is causing so much damage to you and your daughter is because you allow it.

Counselling, man. Lawyers. Change the locks. Don't let her back in the door. Pick up and go home.

She's following her path. Don't let her take you and your daughter down with her.

If she is going to stand on her own, she'll find a way to do it.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

you've seen a number of lawyers over the past year or so?

what have they told you?

I would think the fact that she is abandoning you is cause for taking you daughter and leaving.

back to scotland and family. ASAP!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Dave, thanks for returning to give us another update. I am sorry to hear you are still enmeshed with her, given that it is causing so much pain. I agree with the advice that has just been given by Marduk and Jorgegene. Have you obtained full custody of your daughter?


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

No uptown 
When I'm at work and my daughter is at school she works in a bar from 9-3pm
When I get home I ask if she has been drinking she then goes crazy saying I'm a control freak and a abuser. 
Then she walks to her family 
I almost feel if they encourage her by let her stay. 
And not talking some sense into her and making her realise what she is doing is wrong 
I can't really afford a lawyer and I can't seem to get the time of work because of my boss 
I'm going to give it a month
If she can't change I'm mean it this time I'm going to leave her
I can't live like this the rest of my life thanks for the the other comments they definitely make a lot of sense my confidence has been completely destroyed I'm going to see a councillor on Monday.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

We rent a house together and we depend on each other's wage to pay the rent. 
So it makes it more difficult 
I believe I'm not allowed to take my daughter out of nz 
New Zealand law
I would have to wait until she is sixteen


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## BookOfJob (Jul 6, 2012)

dave626 said:


> ....When I get home I ask if she has been drinking she then goes crazy saying I'm a control freak and a abuser.
> Then she walks to her family


I don't like this dynamic in which she has family support while you don't (my own personal experience, I learn it the hard way unfortunately). See if you can find ways to balance this out (another city, another job, etc).

Granted that having family around is handy especially if we have a small kid in tow, however, this family support (your in-laws) will be detrimental, if you are preparing for separation (now you need to think two or three steps ahead).

I am of this school of thought that believes many things can contribute to the enabling of an abuser. Be it your nice guys tendencies, financial dynamics, etc. I am thinking that we humans are imperfect and need to learn on our own to become better. Having any sort of enablers kinda robs people from this learning process.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks for the reply book of job 
I definitely think you're correct. 
All her family are round about her 
A move to another city would have maybe helped the situation I had thought about it from the very start but she wasn't for it. 
As she knew this wouldn't be to her advantage.


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## dave626 (Sep 2, 2012)

Thanks again everyone who has commented it is greatly appreciated and most helpful 
Thanks


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

dave626 said:


> We rent a house together and we depend on each other's wage to pay the rent.
> So it makes it more difficult
> I believe I'm not allowed to take my daughter out of nz
> New Zealand law
> I would have to wait until she is sixteen


Dave, you need some sort of outlet. Do you have one or two close friends you can confide in? You need that kind of support.
If she is also an alcoholic with all the roller coaster emotional ride that brings, you should see if there is an Al-Anon near you that you can attend, it's free and anonymous and will help you to emotionally detach from whatever she throws at you. You need to emotionally detach and live your life for you and your daughter alone without the drama.


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