# 3 days out of emotional affair...she's planning time with new guy?



## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

We're both mid 20s, together since late teens and married for the past 5 years. Neither of us have really dated other (she's my first..), she had 1 or 2 non serious bfs before me.

Anyway, she had a 3 year relationship with a guy online that developed into an emotional affair. We met him a few times, he joked about "slapping her boobs" if they were alone, inviting her to his apartment to put her in an "mma hold" she'd "love," etc etc etc..etc etc. 

Anyway, I asked them to stop talking, and she always returned to talking to him (I stupidly gave in and said they could continue some of those times..didn't realize how bad it was/feel for the "he's my best friend.."). Anyway, I recently (March/April) discovered some "songs" he made for her about them having sex, what he wants to do to her, etc etc..which she kept..

Got upset after discovering the second one - I told her to stop talking to him after finding the first..didn't admit that I found it..then found she continued talking to him, and he sent her a new one about a month later.

So I emailed them both, said they didn't have to hide their relationship anymore, and they could have each other. I'm working towards becoming a Doctor - I don't have time or the need for their foolishness, and I would gladly divorce her, let him move in, and be on my way. 

He replied admitting to having a crush on her, felt bad for what he did to me (knowing "it was wrong to send her those"), but that he "couldn't help it," as he was single and she was his best friend,,and he had a crush on her. He said he would stop talking to her "if you want.." 

She said she was sorry, didn't want him at all, and would stop talking to him, etc etc etc. 

We started marriage counseling, she told the counselor she was done with him - until about 6 weeks later (a few days ago), I discovered his screen name on AIM had chat logs disabled..while everyone else had them in place. I asked her about it, and she admitted to getting in contact with him, saying she "needed closure." I became upset, said that was it, I was done and expect a divorce.

We argued back and forth, but settled on working through it. She said he was her best friend, and she wants friendships. She said she doesn't want sex with other guys, maybe to date, but wants friends to do things with. 

I said friends are fine - but what she had with him, WASN'T a friendship, and they don't cross the lines..she agreed, and we were planning to fix things.

But then tonight she says a guy from highschool is coming over while I'm at work this weekend, and they're going to be painting together..alone in the house. 

She says - "you said I could have friend!" I said "We haven't even dealt with your prior "friend", we're on the line, and THAT'S where your priorities are right now?" 

Am I crazy, or is that a sign that saving this marriage is hopeless? 

She came clean to her family, admitted to "cheating" on me, and took responsibility for it..which makes me a bit confused, because she seems to want to work on it, but she doesn't appear to understand it..


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

She is working on becoming a serial cheater you know that right?

Oh and either kick her out before the new guy comes or just accept an open marriage.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

You need to run from this woman, fast, before you become a doc and start making $$. She has shown you who she is.
Painful as hell. eh? But ,you caught a break discovering it this early, before kids and the salary starts rolling in.
Please , listen. You need to get out asap, IMO.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Either she doesn't get it or she doesn't care that much.

Tell her because she cheated and has acted in ways that have betrayed your trust, that she cannot have male friends until she has earned back your trust. Tell her that will be at least 9 months.

Tell her that she can have all the female friends she wants but male friends are off limits based on how uncomfortable you are based on her past behavior.

Tell her that you cannot control her, you can only control yourself and what you are and are not willing to accept in a marriage, and how you react to her actions.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> Either she doesn't get it or she doesn't care that much.
> 
> Tell her because she cheated and has acted in ways that have betrayed your trust, that she cannot have male friends until she has earned back your trust. Tell her that will be at least 9 months.
> 
> ...


I think it will be like talking to a bedpost.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

He did talk to her, multiple times, during the first affair and look what they've accomplished?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Your wife is mentally incompetent. You cannot be her father or a sheepdog for the rest of your married life


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Wow she is really playing you..I wouldn't even trust her to go out with the girls..wake up..kick her butt out
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

If she sets herself up to fail, she will fail. You can help the situation and yourself by taking the steps that will help her remain faithful. If she was an alcoholic, you would not be comfortable with her hanging out in bars right? She has demonstrated through her actions that she does not understand what proper boundaries in a marriage are.

Tell her that you are uncomfortable with the idea of her being alone with another male. Tell her that she should make other arrangements with her high school friend. Do you like painting? If yes, tell her you will be happy to paint with her on your days off this week. If no, tell her you would be happy to hang out with her and her friend in the park while they paint. 

Continue the MC, work on setting healthier boundaries and protecting the relationship. She will eventually understand and be on board with the idea.

For your own peace of mind, place a voice activated recorder in her car, under the drivers seat with velcro should be fine. Install a key logger/monitoring software on the PCs and laptops. Insist on transparency in everything. Bank accounts, phones, e-mail addresses, etc.

Do your due diligence and check up on her with the items listed above. You can use some of them as a relationship building tool. You can sit with her, and have her show you her e-mail accounts and phone accounts to prove that she is honoring the no contact rule with the previous emotional affair partner. I was a bit confused about him, I think you said she committed to no contact, but if she has not, she should.

You should also ask her to attend individual counseling so she can focus on what made her want to violate the boundaries of your marriage. Best of luck to you, please keep us posted.

-P


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Paladin said:


> If she sets herself up to fail, she will fail. You can help the situation and yourself by taking the steps that will help her remain faithful. If she was an alcoholic, you would not be comfortable with her hanging out in bars right? She has demonstrated through her actions that she does not understand what proper boundaries in a marriage are.
> 
> Tell her that you are uncomfortable with the idea of her being alone with another male. Tell her that she should make other arrangements with her high school friend. Do you like painting? If yes, tell her you will be happy to paint with her on your days off this week. If no, tell her you would be happy to hang out with her and her friend in the park while they paint.
> 
> ...


I would also bring her some hot tea, and massage her feet. I would make her drink it, and have her go into her childhood issues with you.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> I would also bring her some hot tea, and massage her feet. I would make her drink it, and have her go into her childhood issues with you.


Kind of a useless post, if you have an issue with the advice I offered, maybe be a tad more constructive in your criticism.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

The poster already knows his wife is planning a PA, isn't anymore snooping a bit unnecessary? Rather his focus should be deciding divorce or an open marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

He is her best friend? 

What in the world does that mean other than, "I think I'm in love with him?"

Holy crap. If my husband told me another woman was his "best friend", that would be it. You should have no competition with anyone for your wife's attention.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

that_girl said:


> He is her best friend?
> 
> What in the world does that mean other than, "I think I'm in love with him?"
> 
> Holy crap. If my husband told me another woman was his "best friend", that would be it. You should have no competition with anyone for your wife's attention.


Maybe he should get a super hot nurse as a confidant.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

keko said:


> The poster already knows his wife is planning a PA, isn't anymore snooping a bit unnecessary? Rather his focus should be deciding divorce or an open marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And here I thought the OP wanted to fix things with this woman, silly me, I forgot he only had two options, divorce, or open marriage.

The OP states that him and his partner are attempting to work things out, he will need to have way to verify that she is being honest with him. So no, "snooping" is not unnecessary at the moment.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Here we go again---young lovers who don't have the slightest clue, as to what mge., is all about---but here they are married

Your gonna be a Dr.,--so I assume you have some brain power---what is it that you don't understand about the simple dynamic of mge---SPOUSES DO NOT GET TO ASSOCIATE WITH SINGLE MEMBERS OF THE OPPOSITE SEX----and even more so after they have been caught cheating---3 diff. times, even if it is with the same guy

This is real simple---you tell her, if her X-H. S., comes anywhere near her---she needs to get an atty., to defend a D., action---AND DO NOT BE F'ING NICE WHEN YOU SAY IT

Then walk away, do not argue/discuss/debate/talk, anything---just leave---make sure you set up some kind of spy system, to see if she actually disrespects you

If you stay with this wife of yours, with only half a developed brain---you are gonna go thru this kind of stuff, for the rest of your married life

You threatened to leave, well those were words, now its time to take action----lets see how seriously she really takes you, and if she even wants you!!!!!!


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Paladin said:


> Kind of a useless post, if you have an issue with the advice I offered, maybe be a tad more constructive in your criticism.


Well, Okay. Between times when his wife is hitting on other guys, they should read my new book "Her Needs, Her Needs, and His Role In Supplying Everything". It is available on Amazon.
Make sure they fill out the "Shemotional Needs" questionaire, and do the workbook(Well, he should do it. Not necessary for her).
This guy needs to learn that he was not meeting her every need, such that she cheated. I mean, one would think he did not have unlimited time, as he is simply studying.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

You're evidently the responsible/mature one that's ready to settle down, she isn't. Could it be a case of married too young?


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

Complexity said:


> You're evidently the responsible/mature one that's ready to settle down, she isn't. *Could it be a case of married too young?*


I suspect that's a big part of it.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Run, doc, run.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

NickCampbell said:


> I suspect that's a big part of it.


Nick, I think your wife wants/ed to sow her wild oats before settling down. While you're content with her, this problem was bound to creep up sooner or later. Your wife doesn't understand the danger of opposite sex relationships and will guilt you into thinking that you're controlling and possessive when you're anything but. If you think this marriage is salvageable, I recommend getting "Not Just Friends" and have her read it so she could comprehend her actions and their implications.


Word of advice, *Do not* get her pregnant until you're 100% sure she wants to be married. This is a very bad sign to be having this so early into your marriage. These problems tend to creep up later when the real weight of marriage stresses hit. These are supposed to be your honeymoon years.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

keko said:


> The poster already knows his wife is planning a PA, isn't anymore snooping a bit unnecessary? Rather his focus should be deciding divorce or an open marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

I'm normally all for investigating further, but in this case where they're both young and have no children yet...but she's already had an EA(?) and seriously low boundary issues, there really is no need to investigate further. Like others have said, she just isn't ready for a monogamous relationship like marriage. 

Nick, you've just been given a preview of what your marriage is going to be in the next few years. She's now shown you her true side. What do you think is going to happen later on down the road when you have children together and become financially glued to her? 

Let her go. You can easily find another woman who IS ready to settle down.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

Ditch her, fast and hard. she is not naive, she knew what she was doing from day 1.

HE knew what HE was doing from day 1.

She has your balls in her purse. Take them back and Lose Her.

Quit being a sucker.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

Paladin said:


> Kind of a useless post, if you have an issue with the advice I offered, maybe be a tad more constructive in your criticism.


Not at all. I think liam is saying things have past the point where your advice would help.

She is willfully taking advantage of the OP's lack of testicular fortiitude, by bringing guys home despite OPs feelings about it.

OP!!!!!! shes not gonna listen to your feelings! She has no choice but to see your actions though.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Humans are fallible, and are also capable of change, for a forum with so many people claiming to have "faith," its amazing how many of you advocate giving up on someone. Maybe since so many people who post in this section have had their hearts crushed, the advice seems jaded. Isn't the central theme of the religion so many of you follow "love/forgiveness?" Would be nice to see that reflected a tad more in the advice. Every day people have choices to make, some are bad, some are good, the point is, the choices are not predetermined, if they were, we wouldnt need this forum or this section. Anyhow, just my two cents.

-P


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Looked at your older posts. While you seem to be career driven and hard working, she seems to be content and lazy doing the bare minimum. You also seem to have a lot of resentment for this. Does she have any career aspiration? How is her financial position?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Paladin said:


> Humans are fallible, and are also capable of change, for a forum with so many people claiming to have "faith," its amazing how many of you advocate giving up on someone. Maybe since so many people who post in this section have had their hearts crushed, the advice seems jaded. Isn't the central theme of the religion so many of you follow "love/forgiveness?" Would be nice to see that reflected a tad more in the advice. Every day people have choices to make, some are bad, some are good, the point is, the choices are not predetermined, if they were, we wouldnt need this forum or this section. Anyhow, just my two cents.
> 
> -P


People may change but usually not for the first person who told them to change.

Just like a drug addict, some people need to reach rock bottom before they decide that they should change.

I'm with the others here.....no children between and just before his salary prospects are on the upward trajectory, it's a good time to get unhitched.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I agree, you married a serial cheater. They will lie and betray you over and over.

My ex h is still a serial cheater 18 years later. It doesn't matter who they are married to, they continue to cheat. 

Your wife has no boundaries. Both my husband and I made an agreement not to have friends of the opposite sex. It's worked out well the last 12 years. My husband is my only best friend, even over any female.

Good luck!


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Nick, how far are you in your medical studies? What bothers me is when you begin your residency and later a doctor. You will not be able to be there for her much. She sounds like the type of person who must have a lot of attention. It's going to be hard to stay focused on your job while wondering what she is doing. You need someone who you can trust and also appreciates you. She honestly doesn't sound like the person for you.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Nick,

When you see someone like your wife who does not respect her marriage vows--who actively seeks a "best friend" in a man who is not her husband--what does this add up to? This is likely someone who doesn't believe they are loveable to begin with. So one man (you) cannot convince her of that--she needs to have the attention of multiple men to fill that gaping emptiness in her heart. But we all know that multiple men, 24/7, won't do the trick, either.

She needs a tremendous amount of individual counseling to figure out why she is this way. But even then, there is no guarantee that she can be "fixed." Some people resist therapy--they believe they have no problems that need fixing. 

Affairs are an escape for her. She finds it very pleasant to interact with these men. Who knows precisely what it does--reduces her anxiety, helps her forget her real-life problems--boosts her sadly low self-esteem--or confirms her belief that she's the center of the universe--there are any number of possibilities.

But as NextTimeAround says, I strongly suspect that she is going to have to _fully_ comprehend that this behavior, while fun in the short term, is actually self-destructive before she will choose to stop it. At the rate that she's going, who knows how many (many, many) years that will take.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

You already know that they were flirting in an inappropriate way then why you went to meet him and tolerated him flirting in front of you? This way you gave them an impression that you can be cuckolded easily. What kind of a friend send a married friend sex songs describing what he will do to her, if the meet up? why didn't you realised it earlier that they have feelings for each other. In a way you enabled her affairs by your passiveness, by only some meaningless words without any consequences.

She know that what she did with her first OM was cheating so any WS will be working their ass out to R and do everything to ease your pain but she is going to paint with her old flame alone in your home.REALLY?

We know what they will paint, eve and Adam doing kink sex on your marital bed, do you want to see that painting? if not then let her go man she is not a marriage material, else she will do it again and again. It will be difficult for you to leave her after few yrs with kids in the scene.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Look Nick, I don't know what stage in your training you are at; but, this is not going to get better. You are early in your marriage and she is having at least one affair (and only she knows if there are/were others). She is not truly remorseful. She is playing you big time. Get out while you can. There are plenty of wonderful women looking for great guys. The one you have chosen is broken. Send her back!

Keep her at your own peril.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> She said she doesn't want sex with other guys, maybe to date, but wants friends to do things with.


Why the hell she doesn't have female friends! She needs to find out WHY?


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

Nick 

Read This

No More Mr. Nice Guy

And more importantly 

LEAVE HER before you start raking in the dough


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

NickCampbell said:


> But then tonight she says a guy from highschool is coming over while I'm at work this weekend, and they're going to be painting together..alone in the house.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea cause when I call my high school friends the first thing i do is see if they can give me ideas for paint colors........ COME ON 
I am sorry this is happening to you but I am sensing the BETA in you. It is time to go Alpha male now. I am sure someone on here will link you to the 180. It is time to get serious and stop this behavior before it spirals totally out of control. At this point totally out of control seems to be not that far off. 
I will pray for you my man.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Acabado said:


> Why the hell she doesn't have female friends! She needs to find out WHY?


iheartlife said it best, that she needs to have the attention of multiple men. She needs that external validation. She can't get that from female friends. 

She wants to date other men, seriously, how messed up is that? She told that straight to Nick's face. Nick should give her a divorce so she can date all the men she wants. Of course she won't want to, she wants the security of marriage, but the freedom to date other men. She is obviously a classic cake eater.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Well, Okay. Between times when his wife is hitting on other guys, they should read my new book *"Her Needs, Her Needs, and His Role In Supplying Everything"*. It is available on Amazon.
> Make sure they fill out the *"Shemotional Needs"* questionaire, and do the workbook(Well, he should do it. Not necessary for her).
> This guy needs to learn that he was not meeting her every need, such that she cheated. I mean, one would think he did not have unlimited time, as he is simply studying.


simply an outstanding post.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Nick,

Do you have religious beliefs that would keep you from ending the marriage? 

Since you're in med school, you should be able to work up your T panel. I suggest you do it. You're way too tolerant, unless you're into that kind of thing, and I know you're not.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Paladin said:


> Humans are fallible, and are also capable of change, for a forum with so many people claiming to have "faith," its amazing how many of you advocate giving up on someone. Maybe since so many people who post in this section have had their hearts crushed, the advice seems jaded. Isn't the central theme of the religion so many of you follow "love/forgiveness?" Would be nice to see that reflected a tad more in the advice. Every day people have choices to make, some are bad, some are good, the point is, the choices are not predetermined, if they were, we wouldnt need this forum or this section. Anyhow, just my two cents.
> 
> -P


But forgiveness with out action on the part of the transgressor is without real meaning. The OP says they are working on their marriage, yet her actions show she is really not. She is making the same mistakes, and not evn trying. Seriously, having another guy come over to paint while your husband is out of the house after you get busted for an EA? How can anyone think that is okay on any planet?

To the OP - while I agree with most others that you should probably cut her loose, if you want to stay here are a couple of things that need to be done:

1) no more male friends for her. She can't be trusted with them at this time. Also No Contact letters to all of these guys.
2) IC for her (probably for you as well for your willingness to put up with this crap) and MC from a counsel who specializes in infidelity.
3) You reading No More Mr. Nice Guy, Married Man's Sex Primer, and Hold on to Your Nuts. You have to work on boundaries and stop being a doormat.
4) Get His Needs Her Needs and figure out how to communicate.

There is a lot of crap you need to do, and frankly I am not sure it is worth the effort.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> Nick,
> 
> Do you have religious beliefs that would keep you from ending the marriage?
> 
> Since you're in med school, you should be able to work up your T panel. I suggest you do it. You're way too tolerant, unless you're into that kind of thing, and I know you're not.



Hav ing had a med student as a roomate when I was in college, boy do I know how busy she was when she started doing residency. OP, if your wife is bored now and needs to find other men to keep her interested, boy she's really going to be bored once you do your residency.

I also agree with someone else here, it really should be a red flag when a woman doesn't have female friends and particularly when they don't care, or worse, are proud of it.


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## Stephanie.Jackson (Jun 22, 2012)

I don't know how much insight I can give you, but I can sort of understand what is going on.
I've been with my husband since I was 16, him 18, and we got married when I was 19 and now I am 22. BTW, as a nursing student, I have so much respect for what you are doing education-wise. I couldn't do it lol.
Anyways, I cheated, both EA and PA. I confessed to my husband (although he had been snooping for almost 3 weeks by then I found out) and he gave me the boot and so now we are living separately. Now, I know I messed up hugely. I have ZERO desire to contact the OM and my primary focus is fixing my marriage, even though many people on this forum aren't supportive because they think marrying at our ages is what caused this, and it's not, I caused this. It could have happened at any age and so I don't agree with the age thing. Now I do think the PP are correct that maybe your wife wasn't ready to get married. And I definitely believe you were. But the thing is, as a cheater, I am feeling incredibly STUPID, disappointed in myself, and extremely remorseful. Because I AM remorseful. Your wife however, keeps making the same mistake over and over again (okay we will call it a choice cause the word mistake is not appropriate here). If I were as fortunate as her and my husband eagerly decided to work it out instead of being in the confused state that he is in now, I would NEVER EVER EVER contact the OM. Kinda like I am now. 

You need to file for legal separation. Or serve her with divorce papers. Her response to that will show you how she truly feels. She's playing with you and knows that you are wrapped around her little finger and is being a cake eater as was previously stated. Remember, just because you file for divorce doesn't mean you have to actually go through with it. Good luck.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey stephanie---good post---you, coming from your side of things---can be valueble here----


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

If she needs a male best friend, then you're her placeholder I would think.


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

ok,future doctor---here is a glimpes of your future unless you dump your wife NOW...your finished med school,your starting to make some serious coin,your wifes going to dump your azz and hit you up for serious alimony,depending what state you're in, possibly for life...only thing saving your azz, is your wifes too STUPID to realise this,consider this as a lightning bolt hitting you(a once in a lifetime happening)to the insite of your wifes true colors and run like hell.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

he may be thinking that his wife is different, we know cheaters are same, cheaters who are not remorseful and respectful will cheat again and again........


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> he may be thinking that his wife is different, we know cheaters are same, cheaters who are not remorseful and respectful will cheat again and again........


My wife would never do that; you don't know her at all.
My wife would never do that; you don't know her at all.
My wife would never do that; you don't know her at all.
My wife would never do that; you don't know her at all.
My wife would never do that; you don't know her at all.
My wife would never do that; you don't know her at all.
My wife would never do that; you don't know her at all....


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

well ok then...boy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

She told you he was her "best friend"? Then what the hell are you? Chopped Liver?

Having another man in your house so soon after her EA isn't right. You still haven't fully addressed the EA!!! This doesn't look well for you my friend. Look, when I was going for my doctorate, it took up A LOT of my time. It takes a very special woman or man that understands the time and commitment involved with getting an advanced degree. 

Here's the thing. And I really hate to bring it up. But if you have an MD, DO, DPT, DVM, PhD, DC...whatever! You can make some damn good money. What is the possibility that she's just hanging out until you've achieved your goals and then she goes hog wild? If you divorce her then, well...she'll get a good chuck of that in a settlement. 

Just something to think about. Because you say she's remorseful; yet, she's inviting men to the house when she knows you aren't going to be there and lets face it! She's given you no reason to trust her. She can say she's sorry until the cows come home. In situations like this, action speaks louder than words.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

It's the weekend, so I guess we can assume best boyfriend is at the house with WW and OP is safely out of town.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

crossbar said:


> And I really hate to bring it up. But if you have an MD, DO, DPT, DVM, PhD, DC...whatever! You can make some damn good money. What is the possibility that she's just hanging out until you've achieved your goals and then she goes hog wild?


Crossbar, you're reading her mind.


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

Thanks for the posts so far...but I have a question. How do you know when the relationship is salvageable after going through something like that?

Part of me agreeing to work on it was her admitting to her family what she had done. She did it, but with a brief text message followed by "i dont want to talk about it." I admit I was expecting something more...owning up to her responsibility and actions, and was a bit disappointed with her very brief, and non apologetic message. 

So how do you know when your 9 year relationship can be saved?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

NickCampbell said:


> Thanks for the posts so far...but I have a question. How do you know when the relationship is salvageable after going through something like that?
> 
> Part of me agreeing to work on it was her admitting to her family what she had done. She did it, but with a brief text message followed by "i dont want to talk about it." I admit I was expecting something more...owning up to her responsibility and actions, and was a bit disappointed with her very brief, and non apologetic message.
> 
> So how do you know when your 9 year relationship can be saved?


You ask her if she is wiling to go to couple's counselling. If yes, it might be savable.

If she says no, then the answer is no.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

NickCampbell said:


> So how do you know when your 9 year relationship can be saved?


True reconciliation takes two willing participants. Beyond that, both participants have to understand, and commit, to the level of work that is involved in rebuilding a new relationship. Trust me when I say, that level of work is very demanding, and at times can be all consuming.

In general, both parties need to see the old relationship as being dead. Time needs to be spent looking at what was healthy in the dead relationship, what was unhealthy, and what was borderline. 

Once the old, dead, relationship has been examined, a foundation for a new relationship can be established using the parts of the old relationship that were healthy, or the borderline parts that were adjusted to be healthy. There is no room for any of the unhealthy habits or behaviors form the dead relationship in the new one.

Transparency, trust, commitment, hard work, love and understanding become the pillars that support the foundation and framework of the new relationship. The DS (disloyal spouse) must be willing to do the major heavy lifting that establishing a new relationship takes. The LS (loyal spouse) has to be prepared to do double duty. The LS is tasked with healing from the betrayal, and helping with the new relationship. The task is not easy, but can certainly be rewarding.

What the dissenting voices in this thread are trying to get you to do, is examine whether or not the woman you are talking about is worth the work involved, and if she herself is actually committed to changing the despicable behavior that lead to the betrayal in the first place. The majority posting in your thread believe that since she is comfortable telling you that she wants to be alone with another man, means that she is not ready to do what it takes to help you heal, say goodbye to the old relationship, and start working on establishing the new one.

You both have some major history between each other, but you are both still young, and you are on your way to having a career that will allow you to be very selective in the type of woman you share your life with. Since being a doctor comes with a good income, you would automatically be a desirable mate for the majority of women who are on the market.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

*Thanks for the posts so far...but I have a question. How do you know when the relationship is salvageable after going through something like that?

Part of me agreeing to work on it was her admitting to her family what she had done. She did it, but with a brief text message followed by "i dont want to talk about it." I admit I was expecting something more...owning up to her responsibility and actions, and was a bit disappointed with her very brief, and non apologetic message. 

So how do you know when your 9 year relationship can be saved?*

When you ask this question that you just asked, you know you are on verge of deciding that the marriage is not salvageable. One more incident, and it will be too much.

Here is my advice to you:

Tell your wife that you are done playing games ("_you said I could have a friend!_"). Tell her you are absolutely done watching her playing games with semantics about "friends," guys who admit they have crushes on her, etc. Tell her she knows damn well what appropriate marital boundaries are and she had better start respecting appropriate marital boundaries or you will divorce her. Tell her she has one last chance.

Tell her that you cannot control her. Tell her that you can only control yourself, what you are willing to accept or not in a marriage, and how you react to her actions.

Give her the following conditions:

Handwrite a no contact letter to other man #1 stating how horribly ashamed she is of her behavior, how terrible she feels for risking losing her marriage and husband, who she loves more than anything else in the world, and that if he ever attempts to contact her in any way, shape or form that she will file harassment charges against him. Have her give you the letter for your approval, make sure she doesn't add or subtract anything from the content, then you mail it.

Have her do the same thing with other man #2.

Have her handwrite a letter to her family. You dictate the letter to her. Tell her that her message to them last time was completely inadequate. If she doesn't agree with it, tell her that you can't be married to someone who does not agree with you on such an important issue and it is better to divorce now while you are still young and childless and can both move on to others who see more eye-to-eye on such an important issue as her encouraging relationships with other men who have crushes on her.

Tell her she cannot have any male friends until she earns back your trust. Tell her that this might be NEVER but if that time ever comes, any male friend of hers will have to also be a friend of yours.

Tell her she must never delete another text, email, or any other kind of communication from any of her devices or accounts, that she must give you access to all devices and accounts, and that she must account for her whereabouts to you 24/7 until she earns back your trust.

I think there should be openness and honesty in marriage. I would have no problems living under these conditions myself, have no problem with my wife seeing all of my communications, have no problem telling her where I will be if she wants to know. Would you?

If she does not agree to your conditions, file for divorce. You've invested nine years and you don't want to throw all that time away. Will investing another nine years cure it? You have to make a decision sometime. How much longer and how many more chances are you going to give her? 

Give her one last chance, let her know how serious the situation is, and if she crosses the boundaries again, you will move on. Then do it.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

One day I might just change my signature to "listen to Will Kane"

She has a very long way to go to earn back your trust. She needs some serious IC to grasp why she is trying to torpedo her marriage with these immature, inappropriate relationships

Be wary if she throws out the word 'controlling' to you; all that means is that she wants to continue to do whatever she chooses whether or not she profoundly hurts you in the process.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Totally agree with Palidin. As Someone who had an EA it takes alot of work to win back that trust..shoot hubby still after 5 months isn't sure he can handle the betrayal and we've been doing the counseling and everything we can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

NickCampbell said:


> Thanks for the posts so far...but I have a question. How do you know when the relationship is salvageable after going through something like that?
> 
> Part of me agreeing to work on it was her admitting to her family what she had done. She did it, but with a brief text message followed by "i dont want to talk about it." I admit I was expecting something more...owning up to her responsibility and actions, and was a bit disappointed with her very brief, and non apologetic message.
> 
> So how do you know when your 9 year relationship can be saved?


 A truely remorseful WW/WH will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to try and save the marriage. They would take the veribal lumps, gladly give up their privacy and adhere to ALL conditions set forth from the BS. They would go to the very gates of hell to prove that they want to be with you.

Not, send you a text say that they don't want to talk about it. That's just rug sweeping.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> Crossbar, you're reading her mind.


Ms. Cleo has nothing on me!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Man lots of rug sweeping doormats on the website today. Look without real serious consequence she won't change. You're enabling her behavior.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Man lots of rug sweeping doormats on the website today. Look without real serious consequence she won't change. You're enabling her behavior.


At least some of them can be helped. What gets my goat are the ones who come here begging for advice, but they're in so much denial, that they get defensive about the advice given to them. Even to the point of telling people here to F off.


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## Ansley (Apr 5, 2010)

WTH? Why does she have to have male friends?


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

NickCampbell said:


> Thanks for the posts so far...but I have a question. How do you know when the relationship is salvageable after going through something like that?
> 
> Part of me agreeing to work on it was her admitting to her family what she had done. She did it, but with a brief text message followed by "i dont want to talk about it." I admit I was expecting something more...owning up to her responsibility and actions, and was a bit disappointed with her very brief, and non apologetic message.
> 
> So how do you know when your 9 year relationship can be saved?


 Nick, the fact is, you can't know if the relationship can be saved. Your wife has needs that you may not be able to meet. Your choice of profession is a noble one, but it comes with great personal sacrifice. It will require a great deal of investment in terms of your time and emotional energy. It's very difficult to be there for your family when you've had to invest so much of yourself in the job. The internship and residency are the hardest part, but even if you survive that together, the demands will still be there, and the resentments will continue to build. I advise that you both sit down w/ a counselor, discuss what your needs and expectations are, and decide if this is even worth trying to salvage. If you cannot obtain some feeling that you are confident in both of your abilities to do this together, then consider ending the relationship. This will only get harder after there are children involved, and as others have pointed out, it will be a hell of a lot more expensive.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I think there are some areas of medicine where after the residency are strictly 9 to 5. Stay away from trauma, OB GYN and surgery of all types.

what I see as the overarching problem here is a person who "just doesn't get it." And since I've grown a back bone (since us women can't grow a pair), I have decided it is not my job to teach others proper behaviors and expectations. 

and the more you spend your time trying to teach them, the more whiny and needy you appear to be.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

As is often the case, I agree with river rat.

Being a doctor is not unlike being deployed in the military. It takes a special spouse to support your career. She has utterly failed and you haven't even reached the hard part yet! You want to be in the middle of your 30th hour on call during your residency wondering what she's up to? She's got a lot of growing up to do and I don't see it happening soon enough for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

Well, here's an update..

A few days prior to asking if the guy can come over, she had a "ladies night" with a female friend from work. She told me it was just them two,..it was her first time going out like that, and I was supportive and all. So anyway, I'm snooping on her Facebook and find her talking about it with someone else...but she mentions she had a "friend" there in addition to the woman. 

Btw - the woman is a coworker from her old job, young 20s and with a child she sees only on the weekends..

I confront her, and she admits it was the guy she wanted over to paint while I was at work. We argue, she starts to cry, I say I don't care, blah blah blah,,finish eating my taco bell in the other room. I come to the room she's in, grab her phone, and notice she texted the OM right after arguing with me. I grab it and text him that he's not the only guy she cheated on me with during the marriage, and that she's all his. (he replied they're just friends, that that's horrible and he had no idea she didn't tell me about him, - he actually sounds like a decent guy..although he's very religious...).

She deleted the prior days conversations, but what I saw was him consoling her,,"this is what you wanted though, right? Maybe it will make it easier.." her saying she's not sure what she wants, and that she feels like "hurting" herself..followed by him "nothing's worth doing that!" and saying he will check up on her later. 

I promptly texted her sister saying she was threatening to hurt herself, and called her mom explaining the whole situation (plus prior behavior...), and what she was saying. 

Her mom starts crying, Yada Yada, that she knew there was more to the story but my wife denied any sexual behavior..etc etc. 

Wife goes into the "I don't want anyone else, I want you" blah blah. 

Now...ive known her for almost a decade. We grew up together, I honestly genuinely love her. I think she needs extensive counseling regarding why she needs attention from other men, and I don't think I could severe this relationship without giving that route a chance. I'd much rather end knowing I gave her the key and opportunity to help herself...if she doesn't take it, then I can leave knowing after nearly ten years together, I tried actually addressing the issue..if she is a serial cheater, it will come out, and I'll leave relieved. 

So part of it was admitting everything, answering all my questions..which she did. She admitted there was another guy on Facebook who "talked sexually" with her,,that she thought he was attractive..He also texted her, and I had the privilege of hearing his voice on a voicemail dated December..

She also admitted she wanted to have sex with the OM of three years, but wouldn't physically do it. 

She also admitted to having fun with the girl and guy, and that her and I don't have fun like that...

I followed up all of those with basically "no sh/t."

I told her we've been together for nearly a decade - the newness is gone, and were past the "butterflies" stage of our relationship. I told her I've wanted to have sex with countless women I've seen or worked with...that I check them out continuously, and figured she checked out guys as well..that's normal. 

Her problem was she doesn't compartmentalize those feelings, to tell herself thinking them is "okay" - but that doing is something completely different. She needs to learn to take the fantasies and feel free to use them with me or by herself if she wants..but that i need to be the only guy she allows that with.

I told her I'm bored with her as well when we go out together, and that I've fantasized about one of her friends. I told her the last time I've felt butterflies and really enjoyed someone else's company was with this girl at my old job. She was thinner, more attractive, and had a much nicer body than my wife - and I wanted her bad. 

But I kept it professional, admitted to fantasizing about her a few times, but that was the end of it "since I'm married and respect those boundaries.." I said her and I could divorce, she could get with the next husband, and in ten years be in the same position..

I told her I was going to get the Facebook archives and read every message she sent, as well as text messages between her and him. She was helpful, gave all passwords, admitted some things...but unfortunately, the Facebook archive is deceiving, as deleted messages/chat etc weren't displayed (is there a way to get them?). Also, text messages can't be read..

So her family knows, she's agreeing to independent counseling, to continue mc, to be open with feelings about other guys, to delete or severely restrict Facebook (her whole family is obsessed with it...), delete how they communicated, and rebuild trust. I'm not wearing my wedding ring either. 

So that's where we are now. She called and set up the mc appointment for later today.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

NickCampbell said:


> if she is a serial cheater, it will come out, and I'll leave relieved.
> 
> So part of it was admitting everything, answering all my questions..which she did. She admitted there was another guy on Facebook who "talked sexually" with her,,that she thought he was attractive..He also texted her, and I had the privilege of hearing his voice on a voicemail dated December..
> 
> ...


"If" she is a serial cheater? I think you are using the word cheater in a very narrow sense. If I understand your facts correctly, she has crossed boundaries, or skirted them closely, multiple times. This isn't the first man, you know that already. The physical part is just the culmination of all her inappropriate emotional investment. The cheating starts long before they touch.

I hope you realize you cannot save her from herself. She has to figure all of that out. You cannot do it for her.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Nick, your wife is a baby. An emotional child. She has no ability to be a wife to you, or any man for that matter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Nick, your wife is a baby. An emotional child. She has no ability to be a wife to you, or any man for that matter.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ditto


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

NickCampbell said:


> the Facebook archive is deceiving, as deleted messages/chat etc weren't displayed (is there a way to get them?). Also, text messages can't be read..


if done on the computer you could possibly retrieve the more recent chats with this program (it digs them out of the temp memory that weren't overwritten)

Fchat - CNET Download.com

as far as texts, what phone?


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## NickCampbell (Oct 18, 2010)

Almostrecovered said:


> if done on the computer you could possibly retrieve the more recent chats with this program (it digs them out of the temp memory that weren't overwritten)
> 
> Fchat - CNET Download.com
> 
> as far as texts, what phone?


Evo 4g


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Take the time to pack her junk and have it by the door when she comes back from her "innocent" endeavors.
Talking to her accomplished NOTHING.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

found this, perhaps you can find out how to retrieve texts there


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

NickCampbell said:


> She said she doesn't want sex with other guys, maybe to date, but wants friends to do things with.


In a few words: *Friends with benefits*. 

Let her go.
There's plenty of marriage material girls out there.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

OP read about "sunk cost fallacy".

That aside, don't force her into reconciling. Let her decide it herself. Where is she career -wise? Is she totally dependent on you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

So your marriage is fragile and your chick still goes out for a GNO and it invloves a guy.

You confront her days ago and she still confides in someother dude.

Now she does some light lifting in fixing this thing.

I suggest you keep a close eye on her with a VAR planted in her car and keylogger. I suspect that she is giving you the lip service, but at the end of the day she does not act like you are next to her even when your not.

I think you will get a better perspective in what you are dealing with when she thinks you aren't looking.

BTW to save a 9 year relationship the person that broke it has to do the heavy lifting to do the saving and mean it....not tell other what they want to hear.

Until she can come to terms with who and what she realy is and share that with you, instead of giving you a false perception of what she thinks you want.... then as an individual she will always be lost in her marriage.

See, she can go be this person with girl friends and other guys, but when it comes to you she thinks you want her to have a different perception of who she really is.

With this kind of behavior she hides from you and the fact that hurting her self was mentioned....IC is a big step, but she needs to continue with it for at least a year.

So set your self some time lines and go James Bond on her and see if she can be real with you.


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