# What steps can one take to reduce Child Support legally?



## pk1at (7 mo ago)

This is part 2 of my research on how to gain maximum financial flexibility during divorce. Previous thread focused on eliminating alimony and 50/50 asset split. Thanks to all who contributed, there are three critical documents (all based on contract law) which provide tremendous flexibility to partners
1) Prior to entering marriage, put all your assets in an irrevocable trust created by your family members. All gifts should go in here
2) Sign pre-nup or post-nup before/after marriage
3) Any large asset acquired after marriage should have clear separate ownership using an inter-spousal transfer deed. Critically important to have marital home included in the deed

Looking now for ideas on how to handle child support. Unlike financial assets, child support is usually asset blind and depends upon income of each parent. Courts do not allow for any contract to include child support payments. Generally a socialist system is followed where both parents income is pooled, the cost of raising a child is then divided in the ratio of income. There have been several reforms in some states lately, hugely reducing amount that higher earners have to pay. Some pointers and ideas on how to reduce CS obligation:
1) Cost of raising a child is typically capped and little consideration is given to lifestyle prior to divorce (depends on state)
2) Concept of custodial parent has been eliminated and shared parenting plans are needed. Equally sharing time between parents reduces obligation of higher earner
3) Its possible to deduct health insurance, taxes and union dues prior to CS
4) If a parent is working 2 full time jobs, only one job is considered for the obligation. With rise of remote work, it makes sense to use lower paying full time job for CS obligation. The choice of which job to use to calculate CS obligation is made by the court but the person working the 2 jobs has huge discretion.
5) Inter-state hostility has greatly increased after Roe vs Wade being struck down. Although this has not yet impacted CS cooperation, future cooperation looks bleak
6) Irrespective of what you read, US courts don't like US citizens being taken to other countries, other countries reciprocate by making it difficult to collect US CS obligations internationally
Any other ideas are welcome.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Is this about how to cheat your kids out of there rights ,
I hate the type person that thinks they can bring kids into the world and then walk away and let the tax payer take up the slack


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

You sound like a _*Expletive deleted *_


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

How about this? Get a vasectomy or enjoy your own hand. Are you freaking real? How can I screw my kids over? You’re the worst


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

If you bring kids into the world love them with your whole heart. Why would you seek to financially punish innocent children out of spite because you no longer love the other parent? If you are that selfish & short sighted, *DO NOT HAVE KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

You can't "handle" or manipulate child support, dolt.

It's determined by state statutes or the discretion of a judge in a particular case, in the event of a deviation, and there's nothing YOU can do about it. 

This topic is a fantasy topic and not real.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I glanced at your other thread and understand couples protecting assets and themselves in a divorce, but children don’t ask for divorces, they’re just caught in the middle, and have enough to cope with than dealing with not receiving adequate money from their parents.


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## pk1at (7 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> You can't "handle" or manipulate child support, dolt.
> 
> It's determined by state statutes or the discretion of a judge in a particular case, in the event of a deviation, and there's nothing YOU can do about it.
> 
> This topic is a fantasy topic and not real.


LoL!! Why do we need a court in that case?


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## pk1at (7 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> I glanced at your other thread and understand couples protecting assets and themselves in a divorce, but children don’t ask for divorces, they’re just caught in the middle, and have enough to cope with than dealing with not receiving adequate money from their parents.


Similar to the other thread, I want to make that decision for my children, not some kangaroo court. Also its the CS obligation that I am looking to reduce, it has nothing to do with how much children really get


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## pk1at (7 mo ago)

pk1at said:


> Similar to the other thread, I want the father of the children to make that decision, not some kangaroo court. Also its the CS obligation that I am looking to reduce, it has nothing to do with how much children really get


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

I sent this to my Aunt who is a lawyer. She says you are living in deluded fantasyland if you think this will work. It will prolong the case and nothing more. A family court judge has a lot of discretion and steps like this will arouse suspicion of one spouse hiding assets. The judge will order discovery where each spouse better list all assets or face a contempt charge and/or default judgement. Also a prenuptial agreement is not as ironclad as many believe, especially when children are involved. They are very often adjusted or even thrown out. But the worst thing you can do is piss off a family court judge trying to cheat your spouse by hiding assets through creative financial moves.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

pk1at said:


> Similar to the other thread, I want to make that decision for my children, not some kangaroo court. Also its the CS obligation that I am looking to reduce, it has nothing to do with how much children really get


We already have enough deadbeats, now you want to allow more by giving fathers control over it? Sounds like a great idea 👌🏻🙄


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## pk1at (7 mo ago)

bobert said:


> We already have enough deadbeats, now you want to allow more by giving fathers control over it? Sounds like a great idea 👌🏻🙄


Other way round, this would reduce deadbeat dads. The biggest reason for non payment of CS is they don't like the mother


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## pk1at (7 mo ago)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I sent this to my Aunt who is a lawyer. She says you are living in deluded fantasyland if you think this will work. It will prolong the case and nothing more. A family court judge has a lot of discretion and steps like this will arouse suspicion of one spouse hiding assets. The judge will order discovery where each spouse better list all assets or face a contempt charge and/or default judgement. Also a prenuptial agreement is not as ironclad as many believe, especially when children are involved. They are very often adjusted or even thrown out. But the worst thing you can do is piss off a family court judge trying to cheat your spouse by hiding assets through creative financial moves.


I've heard these arguments before. None of these time tested measures would exist if they did not work. There is a reason off-shore trusts, inter-spousal transfer deeds and pre/post nup agreements are getting popular. THEY ABSOLUTELY WORK!!


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Marry up. Marry someone that has equal to or greater education and career and earnings. Then hope and pray that a judge grants a 50/50 custody with BOTH parents financially supporting the children. No parent should leave their kids hanging if they have the financial means to support.


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## pk1at (7 mo ago)

Best evidence supporting claim that only one full time job is used in CS calculation


Child Support and Second Job | The Chiappelli Law Firm Blog


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

pk1at said:


> Other way round, this would reduce deadbeat dads. The biggest reason for non payment of CS is they don't like the mother


No ****. If they liked the mother they wouldn’t be paying support. How about this novel idea? Love and respect the person you have unprotected sex with. That’s a thought.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)




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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

pk1at said:


> 1) Prior to entering marriage, put all your assets in an irrevocable trust created by your family members. All gifts should go in here
> 2) Sign pre-nup or post-nup before/after marriage


How about don't get married in the first placer? Nothing to gain, and everything to lose unless you marry a richer partner in which case it's all good.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

It’s weird how some people go from madly in love, willing to swim the English Channel for their partners, but during a divorce, that same couple is fighting over assets, treating each over like enemies at war.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

pk1at said:


> Here we go, peanut gallery again voicing opinions unrelated to original question asked


You claim that you live in a community here in the USA that immigrated here 150 years ago. You all basically live by the same social structure of your old country culture. You claim to have isolated yourselves from US society. Now you want to find ways to break US marriage laws.

You claim that marriages in your community are perfect; that there is no abuse; that there is no, or almost no divorce.

Since you all have created marriage nirvana, I'm not sure why you are so adamite about finding out how to lie, hide assets, and steal from the women married in your community.

TAM is not going to help you figure out ways to hurt your children and wives. Sorry.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

*Deidre* said:


> It’s weird how some people go from madly in love, willing to swim the English Channel for their partners, but during a divorce, that same couple is fighting over assets, treating each over like enemies at war.


Win at all cost mentality


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> Win at all cost mentality


Yea, maybe marriage should be like a drivers license for some people. Like after “x” years, you can “renew” your marriage until the next expiration date. If you don’t want to renew, you can just opt out. It’s so romantic! 😅


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

*Deidre* said:


> Yea, maybe marriage should be like a drivers license for some people. Like after “x” years, you can “renew” your marriage until the next expiration date. If you don’t want to renew, you can just opt out. It’s so romantic! 😅


That’s not a bad idea. Expiration date and then reevaluate. Sought of a lease with an option to buy or trade in after 3 years. 😂

Getting back to your original comment, I think some divorces go that way when one person is betrayed. We see it all the time on here…go “nuclear”….go “scorched earth”. I would have been far more compassionate on my ex wife durning the divorce if she hadn’t cheated. But then again, we’d probably still be married.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Why to marry an have kids in first place?


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

pk1at said:


> I've heard these arguments before. None of these time tested measures would exist if they did not work. There is a reason off-shore trusts, inter-spousal transfer deeds and pre/post nup agreements are getting popular. THEY ABSOLUTELY WORK!!


Go ahead and try your ideas in court and see what happens. The moment your ex's attorney presents evidence of these schemes, your credibility is shot and further motions for investigation into discovery will be granted.

Family court is completely different from criminal court. The judge has a majority of discretion into what happens. These schemes will probably get your support payments increased as the judge will overestimate your income and assets. He/she will probably award alimony to your ex as well.... Sure, you can appeal it and fight with a lawyer at 200 an hour plus missed wages, etc...... Why not just put the same effort and thinking into keeping your marriage in a good place?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> That’s not a bad idea. Expiration date and then reevaluate. Sought of a lease with an option to buy or trade in after 3 years. 😂
> 
> Getting back to your original comment, I think some divorces go that way when one person is betrayed. We see it all the time on here…go “nuclear”….go “scorched earth”. I would have been far more compassionate on my ex wife durning the divorce if she hadn’t cheated. But then again, we’d probably still be married.


Yes, that’s true. If I were betrayed by my husband, it’s possible I’d turn on him because…emotions.

Anyway, back to the topic. I think that the OP has some valid points with guarding your assets if you’re going through a divorce but kids are innocent and the least amount of chaos, the better.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Deidre* said:


> Yes, that’s true. If I were betrayed by my husband, it’s possible I’d turn on him because…emotions.
> 
> Anyway, back to the topic. I think that the OP has some valid points with guarding your assets if you’re going through a divorce but kids are innocent and the least amount of chaos, the better.


Did you read his other thread? His point is not just to protect separate assets in a reasonable manner. It's lie to the wife. To hide assets marital assets, even if it means burying them in the ground, and on and on.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Did you read his other thread? His point is not just to protect separate assets in a reasonable manner. It's lie to the wife. To hide assets marital assets, even if it means burying them in the ground, and on and on.


Hiding assets and burying them if need be? Ugh, no I glanced through and noticed comments but for some reason I didn’t think he was being serious.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

At least in the state where I divorced, child support is determined by income of both spouses, who pays health insurance etc. etc. Child support isn't intended for your spouse or ex spouse, it is for your children's food, clothing, basic needs. Why would you want to reduce child support legally or otherwise? I am a bit confused as you mention assets. At least where I live, these aren't calculated into child support payments, it's just based on income, who has the child for how many days a week and who pays how much health insurance for the child. Maybe that varies by state? Can others verify this?


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

pk1at said:


> Similar to the other thread, I want to make that decision for my children, not some kangaroo court. Also its the CS obligation that I am looking to reduce, it has nothing to do with how much children really get


I for one can't blame you unless the child support arrangement was fair and equitable at the start. Back when I was a teenager and had my first baby, child support for me was $250 as I was student. I happily paid that every year and luckily the mother didn't petition the courts until AFTER the child was already over 18; the judge actually laughed at her. The only way to lower child support I know of is to petition the court if something in your life has changed. Of course, this would be after child support was already established and say for example, your employer lowered your wages by 20%, or if you were disabled or something


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Dying comes to mind.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Where I live (Virginia) the steps are basically:


Determine the _total_ income from both parents.
Look on the chart of income and number of children to see how much the total cost of childcare there is.
Split that number proportional to the respective incomes.
Also split that number based on the proportion of days each parent cares for the children.
The difference between what you should get and what you should contribute is what changes hands.
For instance, my wife and I made ~11,000 a month combined and we had two kids so that meant a total child obligation of ~1740. I made roughly 3X what she did so my contribution would be 1264 and hers wourd be 476. Since we're splitting the time 50/50, each of us should "receive" 870 of the total child obligation. As the higher earner her shortfall of ~400 is what I transfer over to her each month.

Don't be mad, its just math.

It was a relatively simple algebra problem. If you try to game the system, the judge will probably assume that you're not being honest about income or something and will adjust the payments accordingly.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

It's kind of funny, when we were figuring out our numbers I wrote a (google doc) spreadsheet that would do the calculation for you for any ratio of income and childcare as far as the official chart would go (35k / month income). (That's where I got the numbers from the previous post) I feel like that something like my spreadsheet should be what was provided by the state instead of just a static chart. I got nostalgia looking at it.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

ConanHub said:


> Dying comes to mind.


Nope. Dying does not get you out of paying.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Also a prenuptial agreement is not as ironclad as many believe, especially when children are involved. They are very often adjusted or even thrown out.


A prenuptial agreement covers the distribution of assets, not people. By definition as well as custom & practice a pre-nup cannot legally covered child custody or support issues. 




pk1at said:


> The biggest reason for non payment of CS is they don't like the mother


That may be true but it is a wrong headed approach. CS belongs to the child, not the mother. So even if your nephews the rest of your family ends up hating the mother, why on earth would you try to punish her by F-ing over the kids? Punishing them to hurt her is bonkers & mean. If you can't love & support your off-spring do not have kids. Taking food out of their little mouths & compromising the quality of shelter over their heads is not the solution to a divorced spouse's hurt. It's simply cruel & Selfish. 

Do you have a kind or generous bone in your body? You seem obsessed with money.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

I know 3 friends that each got divorce one drinks a lot and has a good income the state give welfare to the mother 
and he is the give 200 a month but he does not pay , the second guy father of 5 girls first family and never paid a penny 2 kids in second and then got with a third woman and did everything he could not to pay a penny . the third man paid his part even though the wife got with a second man and he is now paying for the youngest first car and has paid the school fees so 3 very different people


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> A prenuptial agreement covers the distribution of assets, not people. By definition as well as custom & practice a pre-nup cannot legally covered child custody or support issues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the kids are often used in the war between their father and mother


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

D0nnivain said:


> A prenuptial agreement covers the distribution of assets, not people. By definition as well as custom & practice a pre-nup cannot legally covered child custody or support issues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is the type of narcissistic person who feels like they are entitled to do whatever they want. Then they attempt to use shady tactics and financial moves to try and get out of it..... It wouldn't shock me if he were the type to just tell his kid to eat less food if there wasn't enough money.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Don't have children. If you do put them first before your greed and miserly character. 
Honestly I would do anything, just anything for my children. I would give them my last pound. My last crumb.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

frenchpaddy said:


> the kids are often used in the war between their father and mother


Yes and that's disgusting.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> This is the type of narcissistic person who feels like they are entitled to do whatever they want. Then they attempt to use shady tactics and financial moves to try and get out of it..... It wouldn't shock me if he were the type to just tell his kid to eat less food if there wasn't enough money.


When money and assets are the be all and end all of your life then you will never treat others with decency or kindness, even your own spouse or children.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> That’s not a bad idea. Expiration date and then reevaluate. Sought of a lease with an option to buy or trade in after 3 years. 😂
> 
> Getting back to your original comment, I think some divorces go that way when one person is betrayed. We see it all the time on here…go “nuclear”….go “scorched earth”. I would have been far more compassionate on my ex wife durning the divorce if she hadn’t cheated. But then again, we’d probably still be married.


You can still choose to treat people fairly even if they have treated you badly. We both did it.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

OP, please don't reproduce or marry. If you already unfortunately have, please have any male offspring neutered before they can reproduce. Stop them from marrying as well. No woman deserves them (and I mean that far differently than you will probably take it).


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

frenchpaddy said:


> the kids are often used in the war between their father and mother


That war usually goes like this. The father is fighting to see his kids. The mother is fighting to limit his access.


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