# What's reasonable to expect?



## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

I post here every once in a while to get a reality check. My situation:

Married 11 years, 3 kids, sahm but returning to graduate school in fall for new career. Both in our 40s.

Dh's sex drive seems to be increasing, or maybe he's just more vocal about it. He wants 3-4 orgasms each time we have sex. Preferably including one orgasm by bj. A "quickie" is 1-2 orgasms, 45 minutes. He wants sex in the morning and the evening. He wants all this every day, but thinks he can realistically expect this 4-5 times a week.

I find this expectation unrealistic. 

I'd prefer 3 times a week, or maybe 2 longer sessions and 2 quickies. I don't have the time or emotional energy for much more.

Lately dh has said some unpleasant things about how my pleasure is secondary. This is a real turnoff, obviously. And the more demanding/pushy he gets, the more of a turnoff it is.

It's duty sex for me after he has one orgasm. The next 2 or 3 are not much fun for me. I often have the feeling "I wonder if this is how a sex worker feels." This seems pretty unhealthy.

I'm doing the best I can, but I'm burned out. Dh says he can't understand why I can't just give him what he wants. When I tell him it's not reasonable to expect, he doesn't understand why not. I feel if I have nothing emotionally left to give sexually, what's the point of faking it? I think he wants the physical release but doesn't want to rely on masturbation. Sometimes after we have sex (with 3 orgasms for him) he goes into the bathroom to masturbate. He basically never loses an erection after ejaculating.

Sex is such a delicate issue because everyone's sex life is different and has different rules...but I really feel like if I'm putting in my best effort 3-4 times a week (for a total of like 13-15 orgasms). I feel like most people would be somewhat satisfied with this. I'm sick of all the demands and fights. I can't leave the marriage. What do I say? How do I reason with a partner like this? Or is he right?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I think your husband had a thread here a while ago. As I recall, he got pretty beat up for his absurd expectations. I think he ended up getting banned... Hmm il have to look around for it.
Any way, your husband is an ass!



> things about how my pleasure is secondary.


Do you hear that annoying game show buzzer that signals WRONG!!!!!

Wrong wrong wrong!

Tell him to get to know his right hand more intimately!


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
how willing is he to cater to any of your sexual needs / interests?

How are the non-sexual parts of your relationship.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Hmm your pleasure is secondary? lol...I'd tell him to get really familiar with his hand and my middle finger. Seriously he sounds like a selfish lover. Your average is pretty healthy IMO.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I just checked your other threads. Sweetheart, honey, bubbulah, your husband doesn't show much care or concern for you, particularly about sex. This has been going on for a long time too.

You need to learn to stand up for yourself, tell him NO and walk away. 

And don't forget the middle finger that Kristen suggested.


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

Yeah, honestly I know he's a jerk and a narcissist in many ways, but I'm not in a position to leave. It's not bad enough to leave. I'm hoping after I graduate I will have a good job in my well-paying field, and then the power balance may shift. I feel like dh wasn't completely honest about his personality and beliefs before we married, and even into the first few years. Or maybe he's just changed as the years go by.

In the meantime, I'm trying to keep my sanity and sense of self-worth intact, and I am mostly here looking for talking points to use during arguments. So far I have:

-if you want a bj in the morning, let's shower together first (he's really mad about this and says I'm rejecting him)
-I'm not great at giving bj in the morning because I'm a little dehydrated, sorry
-sometimes it's painful to have intercourse after the second time
-I don't have time/energy for 1+ hours of sex tonight
-when you tell me my pleasure isn't important, I lose interest
-the more you pressure me, the more performance anxiety I feel
-it's not reasonable to expect that much high-quality sex...but why not? That's where he always gets me, and I don't have a good response. Anyone?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

What you're doing is quite reasonable - his expectations are a little excessive.

On the other hand, if a woman wants and can have multiple orgasms and her husband won't go along with providing them, he'll definitely get reamed for leaving her unsatisfied. Clearly sex is complex in most relationships, but disrespect is never acceptable.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

It is not reasonable because your drive doesn't match his, and more importantly your pleasure isn't a priority (huge turnoff). And personally I'd need coffee in my mouth before penis most mornings (especially if he hasn't showered). 

I wouldn't give a crap what he wanted with that level of expectation. Seriously you'll end up with a vag like a catcher's mitt,lol.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Tell him if he needs 3 orgasm's per session to jerk off once before and once after:grin2:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Absolutely Kristen. Ain't nobody getting their penis in my mouth prior to a full cup of coffee, a tooth brush! Yuck!

Penguin here are some talking points. 
You say, "I don't feel like I'm a priority. So the answer is no."
He says, "I don't understand why you don't see how important this is to me."
You say, " I think I do understand but the fact remains I don't feel like you meet my needs so I'm not too eager to meet yours extraordinary needs."

You don't argue. You keep to the same idea. He doesn't value your needs the way he wants you to value his. This is a total imbalance of effort and it has to stop. You can counter with how often you ARE willing to meet his extraordinary sexual needs, and then stick with that number. Let him pout, let him sulk, ignore the silent treatment, ignore the passive aggressive attempt to make you give in. Just stick to your premise. He doesn't value your needs the way he expects you to value his.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

'He doesnt want to get off by masturbating, but your pleasure is secondary?'

Grow up dude and get cranking with that right hand until you understand your wifes pleasure and needs are as important as yours! who made him king of the bleeping universe?


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

"I do love you sweetie, if you are nice I'll let you shoot on my tits. Here's some lube"


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

The point was brought up above about how if a woman wants/needs more time to enjoy herself, then it should be expected that the man follows through (at least the majority of the time). Some women need a looong time to get to O, and some women are capable of many O's and want them. And there's nothing wrong with that. If the woman I'm with can have 3 or 4 or 5 orgasms per session and this is what she wants each and every time from me, then I could understand her frustration at me losing interest after I've had one.

So the expectation would be that I would provide for her needs regularly and often.

And her expectations should be that I am not a machine, there for her pleasure, and that I would not do that every day, or even every time we have sex.

And my expectations would be that she provide for MY pleasure, as well. And not to treat me like a slave. And not to tell me to my face that this is all about her. And for her to not get angry at me for being tired, unwilling, or unmotivated on occasion.

Obviously your husband is a jerk, there's no two ways about it.

But what hasn't been said is that your husband is also an idiot.

If he had even half a brain, he'd recognize that treating you the way he does is not likely to have the result he's looking for. Treating you with more respect, and putting an equal (or greater) emphasis on YOUR pleasure would likely result in you being more willing to meet his already ridiculously high expectations.

But unfortunately, I think the lack of respect for you is what's getting him off, I'm sorry to say. This isn't entirely about sex, it's about having a certain power, as well. What he wants (sexually, anyway) is a concubine, not a wife. Not somebody he can respect and love, and make love to and with. He's not interested in that. It's a type of domination. Sex, to him, is about getting off and nothing else.

And I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't keep these things to himself. He probably tells his buddies how good he has it at home. How his wife b***s him in the mornings, and how he goes home and she f***s him for 2 hours every night, and how he gets off 5 times a day. Then his buddy, who doesn't have as active a sex life, asks for advice and he tells them "Just gotta be more dominant man, treat her like she belongs to you. Chicks like that sort of thing!" Then high 5's all around.

Now the problem is him, obviously, but as long as you continue to agree to even 2/3rds of his demands, he still has a sexual hold on you. I know, and have been with, women who would probably reluctantly agree to these demands, and I know and have been with women who would tell me where to stick it.

Now, it may be too late in your relationship to balance things out (he doesn't sound like he's going to listen, or that he cares), but that doesn't mean that you have to accept it. Even if you put up a bit of a fight from time to time, you're still acquiescing to his demands more often than not.

Now the irony of this is, is that's it highly possible that you're doing exactly what he wants and needs - occasionally voicing your displeasure, but more often than not, letting him have his way. In other words, you're giving him a bit of a fight, then he gets his way eventually. If this is about dominance, then this is exactly what he wants.

Now if you were to say "no" every single time, then he'll have no interest. Conversely, if you were to be in to it every single time, then I think he'd have no interest either.

In essence, I think he's getting off on the power side of this. He knows you don't want to be doing it, which is what makes it all the more exciting for him. If he's able to continue on and have several more orgasms after you've clearly checked out and are going through the motions, then perhaps it's exactly that that's fuelling him.

Either way, he has a problem. He's hypersexual and he's under the impression that women are his to use for that end. He has an unhealthy view of sex, and he genuinely needs help.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

PenguinCat said:


> I post here every once in a while to get a reality check. My situation:
> 
> Married 11 years, 3 kids, sahm but returning to graduate school in fall for new career. Both in our 40s.
> 
> ...


I think the attitude of what is "reasonable" is a good way to view it. Nobody will ever say what they feel is a "normal" frequency and desire these days; the answer is always that it depends on the person. That may be true, but I think we should look at what seems reasonable.

I'm a guy, and my answer is, yes, I think his expectations are unreasonable.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Direct your husband to the 1988 CBS After School Special - "No Means No".

Jesus, I knew this before I'd even seen a picture of a vagina.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

No he isn't right, he is selfish and is only concerned with himself. Why are the two choices, having sex as much as he wants or leaving him? There is a middle that most of us live in. Tell him no sometimes to sex especially the morning oral sex you aren't comfortable with. I know he will get upset that he isn't getting his way but too bad. It can't always be about him.

I don't understand why he thinks that showering in the morning before a BJ is rejecting him? It's not rejecting him it's just making things more comfortable for you. He doesn't care if you are pleasured as he has told you so I understand how that lessons your desire to have sex with him. Tell him no once in a while.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I don't think the volume is too much, but wtf is "your pleasure is secondary nonsense"?

Just let him know that if he wants an orgasm you want an orgasm....and first.

Maybe use small words

sounds like he needs them.


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## Dread Pirate Roberts (May 22, 2012)

PenguinCat said:


> Yeah, honestly I know he's a jerk and a narcissist in many ways, but I'm not in a position to leave. It's not bad enough to leave. I'm hoping after I graduate I will have a good job in my well-paying field, and then the power balance may shift. I feel like dh wasn't completely honest about his personality and beliefs before we married, and even into the first few years. Or maybe he's just changed as the years go by.
> 
> In the meantime, I'm trying to keep my sanity and sense of self-worth intact, and I am mostly here looking for talking points to use during arguments. So far I have:
> 
> ...


From the sound of things, it's not going to matter how reasonable your arguments are. He sounds like a Grade A d-bag that just wants a Real Doll, and I feel for you. 

DPR


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Your husband has a serious problem and it borders no, no crosses abuse. This is a very sad story. I think he is potentially dangerous, particularly if his dominance of you is frustrated. 

You can first speak to him about his dysfunction, is he using sex to show his control in a world where he feels his power is limited perhaps due to financial or other problems. No decent husband is so unconcerned about his wife's happiness or feelings particularly during an act which is supposed to involve love. 

Before divorce, you may want to simply cut him off advising that you two need to work on your relationship before it resumes. You both need counseling, because he is abusive and you because you are tolerating and enabling it. Do evaluate self-defense and protection before you try anything because this dominant and nasty SOB is used to getting his way and gets nasty when that doesn't happen.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

"So what do you do for a living?"

"I'm a professional sperm donor..."


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

To me, he is very unreasonable, and to tell the truth, he doesn't seem to have much respect for you. Don't know what your situation is, but have you considered working, part-time? just saying, he may feel he owns you, it may do you a lot of good for your well being. It will also give you a solid reason not to stay home and take care of his excessive needs all day and night.


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

I think the biggest problem is that he refuses to acknowledge my point of view. When I say anything about our sex life, he doesn't hear it. 

I don't think he's maliciously controlling--I think he lacks the introspection to see how his behavior is affecting me. But I'm enabling it too by going along.

So sick of the burden being on me...he expects me to initiate about 90% of the time, wants me to spice things up, learn to talk dirty better, find lingerie he likes, etc etc. I just kind of numb myself and go along as best I can, but how much longer? I was in therapy recently, and the therapist agreed there's a lot of unhealthy stuff going on, but in the end I'm sweeping it under the rug and not rocking the boat, because it feels like a better alternative than breaking open the whole family

I read about other couple here having no sex, or issuing ultimatums to each other, and I imagine what would happen if I tried that...the anger and guilt trips directed against me would be too much, unbearable. I'm also amazed by some people here who had an epiphany, saw the error of their ways and worked to make things better. I wish my dh could be one of those people.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

PenguinCat said:


> I think the biggest problem is that he refuses to acknowledge my point of view. When I say anything about our sex life, he doesn't hear it.
> 
> I don't think he's maliciously controlling--I think he lacks the introspection to see how his behavior is affecting me. But I'm enabling it too by going along.
> 
> ...


I'm a high-drive male who is very aware of the needs of men, but this is ridiculous.

I don't think that sex 4-5 times a week, in itself, is necessarily an unreasonable expectation for a healthy couple in their 40s.

However, if he needs more than one orgasm per session, and you aren't into that, he should masturbate, not hassle you about it. His behavior is demeaning and abusive.

Unfortunately, I think you are going to have to hit him over the head with a (metaphorical) 2x4 before he is going to see reason.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

OK, many here think he is a jerk, but you mentioned you don't want to leave him and that you are hoping for a shift in the balance of power. 

The truth is in relationships, all the powers lies with the person who cares the least. So with regards to your husbands desire, you are actually the one with all the power. If you want to turn a corner in the relationship, I'd advise you to nurture your husbands desire a little differently. Buy him some tight leather shorts that lock shut and show him what makes you happy. This might involve you sitting on the couch in lingerie while he does the dishes in order to find the key to his pants! 

Cheers,
Badsanta 

PS: Keep in mind that like to give bad advice, but sometimes that is what we all want and need!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I think your husband has a calling in the porn industry.
Over 40 years old and a quicky is 45 minutes with multiple orgasms ?!?!
DAMN !!

My advice, 
Move to LA and get him an audition.....NOW !!
Instead of having to participate in this you can just slip in a dvd and watch


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

PenguinCat said:


> I think the biggest problem is that he refuses to acknowledge my point of view. When I say anything about our sex life, he doesn't hear it.



No dear, the biggest problem is not him, it's you.

People who are afraid to say no, to rock the boat, to create disagreement expect the other person to happily and cheerfully accept their limits. THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN!l

You don't need him to acknowledge your POV in order for him to respect your limits. 

You're asking him to not make you feel guilty for saying no. Honey, your feeling guilt is entirely on you. Why should you feel badly that you don't want to accommodate him? So he pouts, mopes, sulks, argues.... Let him! Ignore it and continue on with your day.

Of course he doesn't hear it, it is counter to what he wants. Why would you even expect him to magically become reasonable to your feelings? He's never shown that before has he? So why would he show that now?

Do you have kids? Do you feel guilty when you have to tell them it's time to wake up to get ready for school, or when you have to insist they eat something healthy when they want a candy bar? Do they whine and complain about it? Of course they do! But you don't feel so guilty that you cave in do you? 

Good lord if you cave in you need more help that this forum can supply.


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