# Signs a female has unrealistic expectations



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

I am recently divorced. Going into my marriage I thought I made a good choice. 

Her parents were married for 50 years. She was a hard worker. Had girlfriends. Did not drink, smoke, never did drugs etc. 

However she seemingly did to me what happens on here quite often, and what has just happened to some of my real life friends. She wanted out , and found another man, because she was not "happy". 

When we met she loved the idea of wanting to be a stay at home mom. Once she was she hated it. Then she worked part time. Hated it. When I met her she hated being single and working full time. My point is that she was really never "happy", and I was in the position to "make her happy" which apparently I failed at. 

She also never communicated her unhappiness to me. She just slowly drifted away into Facebook and social media until her affair occurred. 

As for me, I was extremely stable. Great provider. Great father. But that wasn't enough. She needs some sort of either drama/exciting love/extreme amount of attention that is not really sustainable. 

When we date does anyone have ideas of what to look for that might be a red flag? 

The only thing I can think of with her is how she never had any interests or hobbies of her own. In a way, if she was bored or feeling empty, it could only have been my fault. 

How do people find a woman who views you as a partner, and not the guy who is 100 percent responsible for her happiness?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

I think the answer you're looking for would fill a 1000 page book. With revisions to it almost every day.

But what it really boils down to, is what you'll find sustainable for YOU, in the long run. It's not the obvious red flags, it's the simple, every day annoyances somebody has that you don't think will bother you after Time.


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

marriedman321 said:


> When I met her she hated being single and working full time.




Wouldn't this have been your first clue?


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

sparkyjim said:


> Wouldn't this have been your first clue?


Maybe. Although I never met many females who loves being single and alone while working full time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> She also never communicated her unhappiness to me. She just slowly drifted away into Facebook and social media until her affair occurred.
> 
> As for me, I was *extremely stable. Great provider. Great father*. But that wasn't enough. She needs some sort of either drama/exciting love/extreme amount of attention that is not really sustainable.


Those 3 things are good qualities but on their own doesn't really address most of the emotional needs of a spouse.

The biggest problem is that she never communicated what she needed to you. Look for a partner who can talk about her emotional needs with you, come up with ideas together about how to meet them, listen to yours and meet yours.

Know yourself enough to know what you can and can't do and 
look for a partner who's needs match what you are able to do.
Ex. I am a homebody, I would be unable to meet the expectations of someone who wanted to always be out, doing recreation activities outside the home, hiking, having parties etc. Doesn't make him unreasonable, just not a match.

What's unrealistic for some might be normal for others. You set your own standards. I don't really think there's a set list of what a woman or man should be happy with and anything else is unrealistic.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

marriedman321 said:


> I am recently divorced. Going into my marriage I thought I made a good choice.
> 
> Her parents were married for 50 years. She was a hard worker. Had girlfriends. Did not drink, smoke, never did drugs etc.
> 
> ...


Whenever I read posts like this (I was so very perfect and they were totally unreasonable, blah blah blah) I really wish the other person would come in and explain their side. I'm old enough to know there are ALWAYS 2 sides to every story.

As to your last question, that's fool's gold. A marriage is a partnership. It takes 2 to make it work and 2 to destroy it.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

My almost X Mother in law, once told me that her daughter was basically always unhappy about something, and would never be satisfied. When a womans own mother says about her, its all over. 

Some people are just basically unhappy. Nothing you can or will ever do will make this person better. It is just not within her. Spend your energies looking within yourself for your own happiness. I learned the hard way over 20 years, and 3 divorce filings against her to come to this conclusion. Yea, its a mess.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> Whenever I read posts like this (I was so very perfect and they were totally unreasonable, blah blah blah) I really wish the other person would come in and explain their side. I'm old enough to know there are ALWAYS 2 sides to every story. *Perhaps the OP has explained his side. Believe it or not there are many that give 110% but it is still not good enough.*
> 
> As to your last question, that's fool's gold. A marriage is a partnership. It takes 2 to make it work and 2 to destroy it. *True but if the second half is never happy or requires prescriptions for depression(drug/alcohol additions) and other issues it make it awfully difficult to make a marriage work.*


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

marriedman321 said:


> The only thing I can think of with her is how she never had any interests or hobbies of her own. In a way, if she was bored or feeling empty, it could only have been my fault.


This, right here, is your giant red flag. Anyone who has no interests, ambitions, hobbies of their own, and who is unable to work toward their own happiness, is likely to make it someone else's responsibility to keep them amused and happy.

Look less at your "socially acceptable" checklist, and more at the inner person.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Whenever I read posts like this (I was so very perfect and they were totally unreasonable, blah blah blah) I really wish the other person would come in and explain their side. I'm old enough to know there are ALWAYS 2 sides to every story.
> 
> As to your last question, that's fool's gold. A marriage is a partnership. It takes 2 to make it work and 2 to destroy it.


Not true at all. I can look at my sister. Married to a guy who drinks. Isn't the best dad. Never there for her in anyway shape or form. Lousy provider. But she does not rely on him for happiness. She would not divorce him. Not all women are the types who run away and cheat because they need "movie love". 

My question was to try and figure out ahead of time red flags that point to a womAn that would so this in a few years. 

I am a man. I have my role and did it well. I can't "make" someone happy who is destined nt to be happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Not true at all. I can look at my sister. Married to a guy who drinks. Isn't the best dad. Never there for her in anyway shape or form. Lousy provider. But she does not rely on him for happiness. She would not divorce him. Not all women are the types who run away and cheat because they need "movie love".
> 
> My question was to try and figure out ahead of time red flags that point to a womAn that would so this in a few years.
> 
> ...


Just because your sister stays does not mean she is in a fulfilling relationship. A lot of abused and/or neglected women stay. It does not make them _better _than ones who don't. Some are simply stuck. 

I think you need to get out of your "man role" idea. A husband does more than bring home money and be a good Dad. Women have needs, just like men do. If they are not met the relationship will fail- she may stay forever, she may be a WAW where she shuts up and leaves years later, she may just leave early- but it will fail.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> I am recently divorced. Going into my marriage I thought I made a good choice. *Sorry to hear this.*
> 
> Her parents were married for 50 years. She was a hard worker. Had girlfriends. Did not drink, smoke, never did drugs etc. *You said she WAS a hard worker? What happened? *
> 
> ...


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

marriedman321 said:


> My point is that she was really never "happy", and I was in the position to "make her happy" which apparently I failed at.


You didn't fail at anything. That was up to her, not you.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

marriedman321 said:


> I am a man. I have my role and did it well.


I think the trick for you is going to be finding someone who agrees with your position regarding your role. It's not really a question of whether or not her, or your, expectations are unrealistic, but whether your expectations are compatible. Which means you have to be upfront and able to communicate what your idea of marriage is to the women you date. You also have to be able to hear and understand what their idea of marriage is. You'll know you've found the right woman for you when those two concepts are in harmony. There's nothing inherently wrong with women who don't share your expectations, they're just not a good match for you. 

You and your partner need to have compatible notions of what you both want your relationship to look like. So, figure out what you _want from _a partner, and what you're willing and able to _give to _a partner, and learn to communicate effectively about those things with the women you date. Good communication should allow you to determine whether or not you're compatible with a particular woman. 


By the way, you may find that it's somewhat of a turn-off for some women when you refer to them as "females". I just has a sort of condescending vibe to it that may not be entirely well received. YMMV, of course.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Rowan said:


> I think the trick for you is going to be finding someone who agrees with your position regarding your role. It's not really a question of whether or not her, or your, expectations are unrealistic, but whether your expectations are compatible. Which means you have to be upfront and able to communicate what your idea of marriage is to the women you date. You also have to be able to hear and understand what their idea of marriage is. You'll know you've found the right woman for you when those two concepts are in harmony. There's nothing inherently wrong with women who don't share your expectations, they're just not a good match for you.
> 
> You and your partner need to have compatible notions of what you both want your relationship to look like. So, figure out what you _want from _a partner, and what you're willing and able to _give to _a partner, and learn to communicate effectively about those things with the women you date. Good communication should allow you to determine whether or not you're compatible with a particular woman.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

To add, you ask and explore the others most important needs. These can be anything from affection, communication, financial stability, etc. Once you know what the other expresses at their most top needs then and only then can you meet these needs making each other happy.

My wife always said I am financially stable and a great father. The affection on my part sucked. I thought I was doing enough with working to provide and being a great dad. She always told me that affection/sex is also a huge part of marriage. In short, one of her needs was affection from me. Once I added that need all was good. It is all about meeting a need.


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## exhaustedmarriage (Nov 3, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> I am recently divorced. Going into my marriage I thought I made a good choice.
> 
> Her parents were married for 50 years. She was a hard worker. Had girlfriends. Did not drink, smoke, never did drugs etc.
> 
> ...





I don't think you can truly make another person happy. You might make them happier or more sad, but overall if they are an unhappy person, they are an unhappy person. And anyone looking for someone to "make them happy" is one to avoid. 



How old is she?


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## exhaustedmarriage (Nov 3, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> Whenever I read posts like this (I was so very perfect and they were totally unreasonable, blah blah blah) I really wish the other person would come in and explain their side. I'm old enough to know there are ALWAYS 2 sides to every story.
> 
> As to your last question, that's fool's gold. A marriage is a partnership. It takes 2 to make it work and 2 to destroy it.


That is pure bs. It does not take two to destroy a marriage. That is nonsense. No more than it takes two people to pee in the soup and ruin it. 

Your wishing to speculate without the factual predicate. Your off in "assumption land".


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

marriedman321 said:


> Maybe. Although I never met many females who loves being single and alone while working full time.


Females like the above exist; I was one and knew many others like me. From my teens until I got married (at 30) I loved being single and working. Sure, I (almost) always had a boyfriend or was dating someone however my happiness came from building my career and pursuing my own interests and hobbies (usually with friends along).

The key is to look for a partner who already has a full and happy life and then add to that life. Don’t look for someone who “needs you”; don’t look for someone to “rescue”.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

exhaustedmarriage said:


> That is pure bs. It does not take two to destroy a marriage. That is nonsense. No more than it takes two people to pee in the soup and ruin it.
> 
> Your wishing to speculate without the factual predicate. Your off in "assumption land".


That's right. One person can completely derail a marriage with selfishness. I lived it.

To the OP....in dating try and ask about the past history. Find out why thier relationships didn't work out. You can get a sense pretty quickly of those types that are never happy or always have to have it their way. Just listen for it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> *Those 3 things are good qualities but on their own doesn't really address most of the emotional needs of a spouse.*
> 
> *The biggest problem is that she never communicated what she needed to you. Look for a partner who can talk about her emotional needs with you, come up with ideas together about how to meet them, listen to yours and meet yours.
> *
> ...














> *Rowan said*: I think the trick for you is going to be finding someone who agrees with your position regarding your role.* It's not really a question of whether or not her, or your, expectations are unrealistic, but whether your expectations are compatible. Which means you have to be upfront and able to communicate what your idea of marriage is to the women you date. You also have to be able to hear and understand what their idea of marriage is. You'll know you've found the right woman for you when those two concepts are in harmony. There's nothing inherently wrong with women who don't share your expectations, they're just not a good match for you.
> 
> You and your partner need to have compatible notions of what you both want your relationship to look like. So, figure out what you want from a partner, and what you're willing and able to give to a partner, and learn to communicate effectively about those things with the women you date. Good communication should allow you to determine whether or not you're compatible with a particular woman. *










Couldn't agree more with these 2 replies.... it* is * a compatibility thing in MANY ways.. where this wife failed was.. she was passive with her needs...(or was she?)...

Now let me take this post & contrast a difference in women...doesn't make either one of us bad... but we do SEEK different things in life & love.... 



> *Red Sonja said*:Females like the above exist; I was one and knew many others like me. From my teens until I got married (at 30) *I loved being single* and working. Sure, I (almost) always had a boyfriend or was dating someone however* my happiness came from building my career and pursuing my own interests and hobbies (usually with friends along).*
> 
> The key is to look for a partner who already has a full and happy life and then add to that life. *Don’t look for someone who “needs you”; don’t look for someone to “rescue”.*


I am not a Red Sonja.. ...I love being attached, to be a helpmate, I am devoted, have a team spirit , I love being a wife...but only to a certain sort of MAN.. I wanted to get married Young, have a family...we'd work together to achieve those dreams -hand in hand, with my Best friend by my side ...oh Girlfriends are nice & all.. but they bore me after a time.. I'd rather be with my MAN ....it's just a lot more exciting ...for many reasons... wink wink!

Being single would not appeal to me.. I'd be looking for love.... does this make me NEEDY/ unrealistic?? .. No.. we just need to be very careful & selective in whom we seek...someone who thrives on a similar lifestyle... who "gets" us...*and loves us for it*. 

My H is very affectionate, he ENJOYS spending time with me.. How he treats me IS a huge part of my happiness (is this wrong to say ??)...and likewise how he feels from what I bring...... 

Today was my Birthday.. ..got my B-day romp in the am & we cuddled watching "Down to you" hrs ago (a chick flick) ...just happened to be about a 1st love / things wear off a bit.. they go their separate ways....college / tried to date others, working towards their career path....but they miss each other, never got the other out of their system... so they come back together...

I look at H & say...."we would do that"... he says "we never would have left each other"... (how true, we were that inseparable couple- we came 1st).....I hold him tight, getting mushy....he tells me "Get a Grip".. I tell him he is my GRIP.. . I ask him if I'm too Romantic (I know he loves it -but I ask anyway)...it just seems everyone on TAM finds such things so unfavorable, unrealistic, flaw-like...I read the posts daily....

You know what he says back to me .... "I want to be your White Knight"....I love that man! 

I dearly treasure that he feels LIKE THIS..... it's not a bother, it's his JOY.. It's not that I am even needy at all.. we're just being who WE are .. we are a compatible couple.. I didn't get a card today, we didn't go to a restaurant, we even lost our Electric earlier... just a regular day... .. but the ending.. that little exchange we had, moments like that.. it was a beautiful day... His being in my life *IS* my happiness...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Look for someone who is happy with herself, has a life full of things and people she enjoys, has passion for something.

After that communication is key. Get the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters". Read them so that you understand how to communicate in a relationship. When you find a woman you think is a good candidate, have her read the books and the two of you the work they lay out. This way you start out by learning a lot about each other.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Personal said:


> :birthday::yay::toast::yay::birthday:
> 
> Happy Birthday *Simply Amorous*, I'm glad to hear you've enjoyed it!
> 
> Apologies all for the threadjack.


I just read your other post saying we all need a little space & I was thinking.. "Ha ha ...I wonder if he'll catch this ONE!" -which probably sounds TOO close for comfort !  Personal !


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think you've really answered your own question. You know what to look for now, someone who doesn't need to lean on others to be happy. Jumping from relationship to relationship, or always dissatisfied with their life, always wishing it were different; these would be red flags for me.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

marriedman321 said:


> Maybe. Although I never met many females who loves being single and alone while working full time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, that was me before I met DH. Maybe they get snapped up too quickly to be on the marriage market for long.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

breeze said:


> Well, that was me before I met DH. Maybe they get snapped up too quickly to be on the marriage market for long.


Simply amorous I liked your post. 

This might sound harsh, but I believe there is a problem with many women today that I would call laziness and entitlement. If you are a guy and are with one of these women it will just be constant strife, or you will have to just become a weak version of yourself to get along. Not sure if this is due to feminism or just how little girls are raised these days. Let me give an example. 

So you marry and agree with wife staying at home. (My case). Perfectly fine. So the man would pay 100 percent of the bills for three people instead of just himself. You get home and wife says something like "hey I need help around here. You need to do more of the housework". Excuse me? What? I am paying and working for 100 percent of everythjng yet you want me to do the housework too?


Or the above wife plans vacations, shops at expensive stores, then also claims you are not "romantic enough" and don't spend enough time with the kids. Ok. Should we cut back on spending so I can? 

Or the above wife then works , and the money earned is "her" money. Basically her working costs the husband even more so she can have spending money. 

What I am trying to illustrate is that so many single women out there have some strange views of what a partnership is. They are a female and want to be taken care of, yet also don't want to take care of the mean patriarchal man who wants a slave!

I was reading when teddy Roosevelt married , on his wedding night he gave his wife a bunch of socks to fix and sew. Can you imagine women today if you asked them to do anythjng like this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

I think YOU have a strange version of reality...

So, with your example... 

Why is it that if you work full time at nine hours a day and bring in all the money, a SAHM works 24 hrs a day with no help and no pay? How is that fair in any way?


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Revamped said:


> I think YOU have a strange version of reality...
> 
> So, with your example...
> 
> Why is it that if you work full time at nine hours a day and bring in all the money, a SAHM works 24 hrs a day with no help and no pay? How is that fair in any way?


Well she never worked 24 7. Our kid would go to bed at 7 and wake at 8. When I was home I would also care for my son. 

What your bringing up is the selfishness I am talking about. I could never picture my mom saying "hey I stayed home with the kids. Pay me for that". 

I think a woman staying home is fine if she wants too. Working outside for a Check is also fine. But add something to my life other than "love".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Revamped said:


> I think YOU have a strange version of reality...
> 
> So, with your example...
> 
> Why is it that if you work full time at nine hours a day and bring in all the money, a SAHM works 24 hrs a day with no help and no pay? How is that fair in any way?


See. To support 3 people I worked more than 9 hours a day. Never complained. If you don't want that nice house, new car, vacations and nice clothes along with hair and nail appointments please tell me so I can work less. Or put the kid in daycare and work 11 hours a day too. You can't have everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> See. To support 3 people I worked more than 9 hours a day. Never complained. If you don't want that nice house, new car, vacations and nice clothes along with hair and nail appointments please tell me so I can work less. Or put the kid in daycare and work 11 hours a day too. You can't have everything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, Archie, either can you. You see what you want and disregard the rest. Typical for a selfish man...


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Waking up today & seeing that YOU, the OP liked my post - only going on what little I said.... brought a smile to my face..
> 
> I had to laugh reading the rest of what you wrote here, I could not be FURTHER from the sort of women you described .....
> 
> ...


Great post. And five kids. Wow. 

I think what I mean is that when marriages start to fail we turn to self help books. Or feel we didn't do enough. Or try to "change". When in most cases one partner is just not cut out to be married. 

My ex wife wanted a nanny to have a second kid. And it was soooo hard to go to the mall with other moms daily. And out to lunch. She was working 24-7 as the other poster just stated!

It was so hard that while I was workings tail off she had the time to start an affair as I wasn't "romantic" enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Or the above wife plans vacations, shops at expensive stores, then also claims you are not "romantic enough" and don't spend enough time with the kids. Ok. Should we cut back on spending so I can?


Why does romance have to cost money? There are plenty of ways to be romantic without it taking money or too much time. Simple love note in the morning before you leave for work, picnic on the floor with candles after the kids are in bed, etc.

Romance should not be an unrealistic expectation.


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## Coco2014 (May 8, 2014)

Originally Posted by marriedman321 View Post
When I met her she hated being single and working full time.

So at least one of the motivations she married you is that she does not need to work anymore?


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## Coco2014 (May 8, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> A marriage is a partnership. It takes 2 to make it work and 2 to destroy it.


It takes 2 to make it work but only takes one to destroy it. Destruction is much easier than construction. It only takes one to do it.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Revamped said:


> I think YOU have a strange version of reality...
> 
> So, with your example...
> 
> Why is it that if you work full time at nine hours a day and bring in all the money, a SAHM works 24 hrs a day with no help and no pay? How is that fair in any way?


I think this comment illustrates exactly the point that he was making how many people don't get the idea of "partnership" and that many women have a sense of entitlement...

If you structure the arrangement so that there is one breadwinner and one SAHP, and that each work equally hard at fulfilling their roles, how is that not an equal partnership? Of course the SAHP has "no pay" that is the point - the other point being that both spouses have an equal portion of community property.

If the SAHP does not wish to have that responsibility any longer then it is up to both partners to figure out a way to restructure their roles so that the household and relationship needs are being met.

The problem has to do with perception and understanding, and many spouses fall for the trap that they think the roles their spouse has is easier, or that they are not giving the same amount of effort (which is usually not the factual case, but facts are secondary to feelings in this regard).


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## BWBill (Jan 30, 2013)

_ It takes 2 to make it work and 2 to destroy it. _

Even without examples this statement is illogical. 

If it takes 2 to make it work, and 1 decides to not make it work, then you don't have the 2 needed to make it work. And then by definition it doesn't work.

Therefore it only takes 1 to destroy it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> *Why does romance have to cost money? There are plenty of ways to be romantic without it taking money or too much time. Simple love note in the morning before you leave for work, picnic on the floor with candles after the kids are in bed, etc.
> 
> Romance should not be an unrealistic expectation.*


Romance doesn't cost anything (at least not my interpretation of it)... some of the most beautiful things in life are completely free.... this thread can offer some ideas for couples...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-t...ings-do-your-wife-husband-wont-cost-dime.html

..a simple walk in the woods, hand in hand, could be filled with romance...laughing together.. kissing, sharing....or maybe even a cornfield...



I've read so much on Romance.. this write up captured it best for me.... it's an attitude, a giving...an appreciation for that special person in your life ...its in how we express that... our dance with it ...it can't help but come back to us....it's not about diamonds, fancy restaurants, even flowers..oh those might be a nice added touch.. just not necessary ... 



> Being Romantic means being sensitive, affectionate, and spritually-inclined.
> 
> The paramount quality of a romantic person is sensitivity. The romantic is a person who FEELS deeply, and attaches a lot of meaning to those feelings. Because of this, the romantic will express him/herself through such things as affection, verbal declarations of love, and meaningful gestures, all of which come from deep within.
> 
> ...


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Lon said:


> I think this comment illustrates exactly the point that he was making how many people don't get the idea of "partnership" and that many women have a sense of entitlement...
> 
> If you structure the arrangement so that there is one breadwinner and one SAHP, and that each work equally hard at fulfilling their roles, how is that not an equal partnership? Of course the SAHP has "no pay" that is the point - the other point being that both spouses have an equal portion of community property.
> 
> ...


While you say it's the woman who gets lured into a state of self entitlement, I disagree and feel it is the man in these types of relationships who fall head first into the entitlement category. 

A SAHP such as SA uses language as "he LETS me" and "I am ALLOWED" and "INTER dependent." Although it works for her and her husband, and she agrees, not a lot of people would do that.

Being INdependent does not mean you do what you want, I'll do what I want and to hell with what you want. It means being able to compromise and work together towards a common goal without one person doing it all I.e. Only working OR only a housemaid. It's a sharing mentality.

Welcome to the 21st century, people. Nobody gets out alive...


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Revamped said:


> While you say it's the woman who gets lured into a state of self entitlement, I disagree and feel it is the man in these types of relationships who fall head first into the entitlement category.
> 
> A SAHP such as SA uses language as "he LETS me" and "I am ALLOWED" and "INTER dependent." Although it works for her and her husband, and she agrees, not a lot of people would do that.
> 
> ...


That's fine. Both people can split the bills. But if I have to support three people by myself don't tell me to come home and do the dishes. Don't whine about how hard watching a baby is while you sit on Facebook or watch tv all day. Or see your friends. Or talk on the phone. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

There you go again, Archie. 

You get breaks at work. Why wouldn't you expect that if you were on call 24 hrs?

And please, for the Love of God, do NOT complain about raising your own kids. It's called parenting for a reason, ya know...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Revamped said*: *Why is it that if you work full time at nine hours a day and bring in all the money, a SAHM works 24 hrs a day with no help and no pay? How is that fair in any way*?


It does sound like his wife was MILKING IT.. come on...24 hrs a day.. this is so NOT TRUE.. 

At one time we had 4 kids (6 yrs & under) 2 in cloth diapers (my choice) we didn't have a dryer (I didn't want one!)...I hung them on the line... . I seriously felt I had the world at my feet.. I was very happy (but granted I tried to get pregnant for yrs so I was thrilled to have those babies & just being able to afford to stay home...

Just so very thankful...and you know what, I watched 2 soap operas, read books. I mean I had FREE time.. I am not saying this to be irritating... I feel if a wife/Mom manages her time well.. of course it helps if her kids aren't colicy, or some special circumstances outside of the norm.. I also never breastfed, I am sure this slows Moms down alot...

BUt we can keep them entertained/ House baby proofed... while we get our stuff done in a safe atmosphere.. it just takes a little creativity. I never let them slow me down, I took them to the Grocery store, 2 held hands-then onto mine, one in a sling on my chest. You do what you have to do. I was always good at multi-tasking though ....because I did want that time to relax - wind down. 

Children sleep unless we're interrupted by throwing up/ fevers, needing bottles/ a nipple .. a night mare.. I kinda want to shake my head with the 24 hr thing when I hear Mom's say this.. 



marriedman321 said:


> *Great post. And five kids. Wow*.


 We have 6 actually ...one flew the nest ...

The Traditional family set up has been a blessing to our lives..it's what we both wanted ... our biggest fear was ..could we afford it.. I worked more in our early years -when we had just 1 son.. but he'd complain I wasnt home enough, he'd hit the door, and I'd be off with a kiss.. we didn't have babysitters and we didn't want to live like that. 



> *I think what I mean is that when marriages start to fail we turn to self help books. Or feel we didn't do enough. Or try to "change". When in most cases one partner is just not cut out to be married. *


 Well I was running with the *compatibility* thing when I posted on this thread.. I am guessing many issues were AT PLAY in your marriage??

Maybe your love languages were off (huge contention -both feeling less loved).. how you handled money, spending habits, financial expectations - maybe you are more a thrifty SAVER... and she was a spender (HUGE CONTENTION!)... 

Maybe she didn't feel listened to/ heard ... this IS very important to us women.. .. maybe you wanted more sex, she wanted you to take the garbage out more.. who knows.. it all adds up.. and when a couple stops talking.. the resentment starts climbing.. and far too often.. one will seek comfort in other places ..which it sounds was the case here.. 



> *My ex wife wanted a nanny to have a second kid. And it was soooo hard to go to the mall with other moms daily. And out to lunch. She was working 24-7 as the other poster just stated!
> 
> It was so hard that while I was workings tail off she had the time to start an affair as I wasn't "romantic" enough.*


 Even though I am high on the romantic bar and really It would be a deal breaker for me if the man wasn't geared THIS WAY..(I understand we have our role to play in keeping this connection alive due to our treatment of him )...

I can emphasize with you, given what you have painted here....it sounds very stressful on You... I don't feel the normal situation would warrant hired help like this... Goodness. what a luxury! Not sure about your income, but we'd be considered LOW for our family size.

I'd never Live to see the day for that sort of pampering .. but I'm the type who would never buy a dishwasher either.. I don't see it as necessary at all.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Revamped said:


> There you go again, Archie.
> 
> You get breaks at work. Why wouldn't you expect that if you were on call 24 hrs?
> 
> And please, for the Love of God, do NOT complain about raising your own kids. It's called parenting for a reason, ya know...


The child is not a baby forever. Babies also take naps. Actually sleep most of the time. Soon the child starts pre school. I wonder how many moms on their death beds are saying "wow i only wish I worked outside of the home all the time so I didn't have to spend so much time with my baby. "

What many women with the princess syndrome want is a nanny so that they can have no responsibilities. Which is what my wife was asking for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> It does sound like his wife was MILKING IT.. come on...24 hrs a day.. this is so NOT TRUE..
> 
> At one time we had 4 kids (6 yrs & under) 2 in cloth diapers (my choice) we didn't have a dryer (I didn't want one!)...I hung them on the line... . I seriously felt I had the world at my feet.. I was very happy (but granted I tried to get pregnant for yrs so I was thrilled to have those babies & just being able to afford to stay home...
> 
> ...


Thank you. 5 kids and you still had free time. Which was my point. Staying at home with one child should not be so difficult that the husband has to come home and do the laundry and clean the house.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Well, I feel for the both of you. Both of you are truly the extremes of the modern day.

On one hand, a woman that's content to stay at home. That's fine and dandy - up to the point your husband deserts you with 5 kids with no way to support them.

And the jilted man- who through no fault of his own, his wife cheated on him.

Both of you state your cases well. Albeit one sided.

May you find the peace you're looking for...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Revamped said:


> *While you say it's the woman who gets lured into a state of self entitlement, I disagree and feel it is the man in these types of relationships who fall head first into the entitlement category.
> 
> A SAHP such as SA uses language as "he LETS me" and "I am ALLOWED" and "INTER dependent." Although it works for her and her husband, and she agrees, not a lot of people would do that*.


 I am not really sure what you are meaning here..... I married a very GIVING MAN...he never complains ....he would help me if I needed it - oh goodness YES !... To be honest.... he would be the type to run himself ragged to please his family... and how sad it would be if he married a pampered leech.. I could see him dying an early death....Who would that benefit.. it would only hurt all of us....

I am the one who has had to put my foot down cause friends wanted to BORROW him for help at times ...I'm not going to let him get taken advantage of.. not by my own hand either...

A thought on "INTERDEPENDENCE" .. 



> *Interdependence* is being mutually dependent, or simply being dependent on each other . Two people in a healthy relationship are said to be interdependent. In contrast to existing alone, it is a voluntary recognition that “no man is an island,” and that we must co-inhabit the space in which we live.
> 
> The most important point to understand is ”this debate positions both *independence* and *interdependence* as alternative endpoints of maturity… Independence and interdependence are polar opposites—either the two ends of a continuum, or else mutually exclusive categories”


Now.. I do feel sorry for Stay at homes who have a man who is controlling, bossy, who might belittle her if the house is not clean enough to eat off the floor, if he expects a full course home cooked meal every night .. anyone can PUSH the others limits, getting carried away.. and show no gratitude for what is offered in keeping the family running.. 

I have a Husband who has always support me, praised me.. and I support his JOB 1st & foremost, it is what keeps us afloat!! ....I only bring in a whopping 4% of our income..nothing to brag about !!... I see his role as VITAL...we NEED HIM....though he would turn around and say how NEEDED I am to our family as well or we'd all fall apart... (I am the organizer, the schedule juggler, the detailed vacation planner, I handle all the $.. bla bla)...

Shouldn't it BE this way. ..

Both acknowledging what each other brings...it's just that important... it's a spirit of wanting to help each other -to create a smoother ride ... for all of us.. .

When a couple can't agree on chores....I guess it's best for them to sit down, draw up some lists to what they FEEL is their responsibilities.. then iron out those differences where one feels it should be the others.. where they are bulking heads.. could make a good thread on TAM to get others to give their opinions even.. (oh that could get messy too I suppose)...

When 2 can not agree... the answer is meeting each other half way -as much as possible, compromise..if you have to choose days.. write up a schedule.. both should feel heard, respected.. each may need to do a little more .. but the rewards will be a smoother running family.. . what do you suggest ??

Something's gotta give.. 



> *Being INdependent does not mean you do what you want, I'll do what I want and to hell with what you want. It means being able to compromise and work together towards a common goal without one person doing it all I.e. Only working OR only a housemaid. It's a sharing mentality.*


 Each couple is different and they have to decide what works for them.. .. for instance. my H is better with the kids.. he is more patient over me [email protected]#....So he helps our daughter with her Homework - then our daughter helps our 7 yr old (Love this!)... 

But my H never has to touch the dishes / cook, laundry , none of this.. unless I was sick, in the hospital with a baby (even then I cooked & froze ahead of time so we were covered).. He's our Handy man, always something to FIX..that's his domain cause I would struggle with those things.. and want to set a bomb off in the garage..



> *Revamped said*: *On one hand, a woman that's content to stay at home. That's fine and dandy - up to the point your husband deserts you with 5 kids with no way to support them*.


 There is always a risk to our roles.. .. this is one I am not worried about personally.... His dying on us.. much more so...Death & taxes come to all.. Cheating & divorce is a little lower on the scales...

I do have Life Insurance to cover -so I wouldn't have to panic... I would caution every person alive to be very very careful who you marry.. KNOW THEM INSIDE OUT .. what they are made of, what makes them tick ...know their secrets, know their faults , their weaknesses...if you FIT for the long haul.....to lower these risks.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

*Signs a female has unrealistic expectations*


She thinks every guy is just like the ones she sees in movies or have read about in books ie perfect 


She expects every guy she meets to be psychic and to automatically just know how she feels when she feels it 


She expects you to put her priorities above everything else regardless how important yours may be without having to do the same her self 


She expects you to be the best lover and to know magically everything she wants without communicating it 


She expects the relationship to be like a fairytale one without any challenges where everything is perfect and she is happy all the time


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

xakulax said:


> *Signs a female has unrealistic expectations*
> 
> 
> She thinks every guy is just like the ones she sees in movies or have read about in books ie perfect
> ...


Haha. My ex exactly. When she told me she was leaving me I asked why. She told me she wants "movie love". 

And never once In our relationship said "hey let's talk abojt us". I was just supposed to be a mind reader.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Cheating and divorce is number one on most people's radar. All because it hasn't happened to you, makes you the great expert on how to be the perfect stay at home parent.

Don't come to MM321's rescue. He isn't a friend nor foe. 

He is more of the norm than you are.

I'll pick my own battles, thank you.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Revamped said:


> Cheating and divorce is number one on most people's radar. All because it hasn't happened to you, makes you the great expert on how to be the perfect stay at home parent.
> 
> Don't come to MM321's rescue. He isn't a friend nor foe.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately. We wouldn't have much divorce if people with her qualities were the norm. 

The divorces I see in my age group (35-45) are all initiated by women who either cheated or need new "romance". Laws also help make it easy for them. So who I am trying to avoid are the flakes who are never happy. Or think they will be happy with just a new person. Until of course that gets old.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Really?

Hold on to your bitterness. It will keep you warm this winter.

And many more winters to come.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Haha. My ex exactly. When she told me she was leaving me I asked why. She told me she wants "movie love".
> 
> And never once In our relationship said "hey let's talk abojt us". I was just supposed to be a mind reader.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But didn't you also say she would ask for more romance during your relationship? 

A lot of times women DO say what we want, it just gets ignored or thought of as nagging or silly.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> But didn't you also say she would ask for more romance during your relationship?
> 
> A lot of times women DO say what we want, it just gets ignored or thought of as nagging or silly.


She mentioned romance once she already was in an affair. 

We had a fairly busy life. Her friends and family visiting. Mine. Vacations. Work. A child etc. 

Things did become stagnant romantically. I think she always had 3 year relationships.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Revamped said:


> Cheating and divorce is number one on most people's radar. All because it hasn't happened to you, makes you the great expert on how to be the perfect stay at home parent.
> 
> Don't come to MM321's rescue. He isn't a friend nor foe.
> 
> ...


I am just speaking our marital dynamics as freely as any other poster is here... we all bring our own experiences ... whether they be good, bad or we learned along the way & came to a better place.... should I be put down because I haven't had these issues.. you want to point out how Extreme I am -or this man is for what... being stupid enough to choose a Traditional lifestyle to raise a family.. 

Did I say I was an expert.. just because I have an opinion... we all do.. You as well as myself... You feel a SAHM never gets a break -even with 1 child... I feel that stance is EXTREME..

Maybe you are speaking out of being a working Mother.. and your H doesn't share chores with you, but expects TOO MUCH .... if so..I would surely be on your side in that.. it wouldn't be OK... It's a whole different situation. 

Not catering to marriedman321 either... in fact, when I clicked on this thread...you know what I originally thought...another H whose marriage went down the drain because he wasn't affectionate enough to his wife and thinks a little Romance is all Bull sh**.. and frankly.. I was feeling sorry for such a wife.. feeling she is being misunderstood, emotionally pushed aside....

Until I realized what he was dealing with.. so from behind this keyboard.. I'll emphasize where I feel a couple is missing it with the other.. doesn't matter the gender or how faceless they are...


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## mdill (Jan 18, 2012)

OP don't beat yourself up because you wife decided she was not happy and wanted to move on. I have walked in your shoes, but am much older.

I knew my first wife 10 years before marriage. We married when she was 29 as we wanted children. She was very career focused and did not want to stay at home. We had two children within 3 years of marriage. I thought we were best friends and lovers for 13 years after marriage. On our 13th anniversary she left to visit her mom and the next day emailed me to tell me she wanted a divorce as she was not happy. I was stunned as we never had an argument (ever) and she never indicated she was unhappy. I tried to get her to tell me why she was unhappy with me, but she never did explain and was not willing to go to counseling. So we divorced. This was 19 years ago. To this day when my two very intelligent, now mature children ask me "what went wrong" I tell them I don't know. All I know is she was "unhappy" with her life. For years (10-15), I thought I failed. somehow. However, after meeting my current wife of 16 years I came to realize over time it wasn't me. My 2nd wife is amazing (beautiful, smart, sexy and caring) and a much better wife than I could ever have hoped for. We have been happily married for 16 years and loving life. Over the years, I came to realize my first wife is one is was never happy and always in search of something "better". My two children, now adults, have confirmed that "mom is never happy" and they still don't understand "why she decided to break up the family". I never know what to say when they bring this up other than to encourage them not to be judgmental of mom. She did what she thought was best. Oddly, I'm so much better off for her decision. Fortunately, my two accomplished and amazing kids seem to have survived the split just fine. For that I'm thankful.

In the past 20 years, I have come to realize that I can't take responsibility for someone else's happiness. You can only try to be the best partner/husband you can be. Hopefully, with the right partner this will be enough. You can only do what you can do.

Good luck.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

marriedman321 said:


> *Haha. My ex exactly. When she told me she was leaving me I asked why. She told me she wants "movie love".
> 
> And never once In our relationship said "hey let's talk about us". I was just supposed to be a mind reader.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I touched on the "mind reading" thing in one of my threads...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-t...ion-our-husbands-shake-up-rock-his-world.html



> *12.* *Our husbands desire to Please us...how important to communicate our WANTS clearly*... Men are not mind readers..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am one who feels we shouldn't expect anything more than we are willing to GIVE ourselves..







...oh sure there are times we may be going through something.. and our spouse "carries us".... none of us are perfect ...and sometimes we just need understanding & some grace...

I can look back over our marriage & my husband did that for me when we struggled to conceive (over the period of 6 + yrs)...I'd cried on his shoulder, had pity parties, jealous of other Mom's, I was so one tract minded ... he was a trooper.. when I wasn't as affectionate , as loving , as caring to HIS NEEDS as I should have been..he loved me through that "desert" period...

I've come a ways myself.. he's been my greatest example...

I feel this about sums it up.. in regards to Marriage & Expectations...


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## independentgirl (Nov 14, 2014)

I just want to throw in my 2 cents. Have a Financial independent marriage is possible. Wife can works to helps put in the income too.

Here is an example from me and my guy. Both me and him are independent early in life. We both have our own jobs, no one depend on anyone financially. 
When we go out on dates, I help split with him. I know he works hard, so I never ask him to get me anything. Two people going on dates is enjoy each other companies, enjoying the time being together, so it doesn't matter that I also help to pay.
He doesn't seem to mind me being the financial independent girl neither, since he still 'lovestruck' by me, the girl in his own neighborhood, lol.

We talked about this, and he agrees that after we married, Both me and him going to work and put in the income together. All our bills will split in half, 50/50, I will do the cooking and cleaning, as long as I can balance work and wife duty.

We not married yet, but I already cook and clean for him, and I am also working too. So this can be balance out, if the woman willing to.
It is always better to have 2 people working income to help out each others.

I was never the type with unrealistic expectations in marriage. I just want a guy to love me as much as I love him, and compromise in marriage. 
We can be 'Emotionally' dependent on each others. But when it come to Financial, I prefer to be independent, so no party can have control over one another financially.
Keep it plain and simple, we married simply it because of the 'love' we have for each others, and want to be together.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Revamped said:


> I think YOU have a strange version of reality...
> 
> So, with your example...
> 
> Why is it that if you work full time at nine hours a day and bring in all the money, *a SAHM works 24 hrs a day with no help and no pay?* How is that fair in any way?


False. An absolute over dramatization and exaggeration.

I challenge anyone to find a SAHM that gets zero material compensation, or one the truly works 24 hours a day.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

independentgirl said:


> We not married yet, but I already cook and clean for him, and I am also working too. So this can be balance out, if the woman willing to.
> *It is always better to have 2 people working income to help out each others.
> *
> I was never the type with unrealistic expectations in marriage. I just want a guy to love me as much as I love him, and compromise in marriage.
> ...


You prefer the modern lifestyle with your Man.... some of us really do prefer the more Traditional approach, especially when there is more than a few kids, childcare would eat us alive & reverse our savings & if you didn't pay for childcare -you'd never have time for each other.. (these things also need weighed in the equation)... I assume you have no children as yet .... 

Also (for a family like ours)...we live in the boonies & winter weather driving , not to mention a driveway from hell (but we love living here)... can be hazardous..(my H doesn't want me on the roads, he worries about me.... plus that would be the expense & upkeep of another 4x4)....

To say it is *ALWAYS* better is a stretch.. some of us would very much disagree with you...even if it's not the Norm in today's society... It's very important for a couple to be compatible in THIS - just as other areas... before they marry...(It's good you & your guy are)... 

Either lifestyle can work well... there is no competition here.. some women can't stand staying home/ depending on a man...they feel this demeans them somehow, they also would be bored out of their minds/ puling their hair out...(not my experience but I trust that's how they feel)...nor is all men controlling & lording over their wives / acts like HIS $$ is "HIS" - "go fend for yourself woman" ...I would not be able to relate to that in any way , shape or form, but it is seems to be assumed by many ... I'm here to say, not all men are like this. 

Marriedman321's wife...well.. she wasn't happy whether she worked or didn't work...and had the life of easiness with 1 child in tow, eating out with friends....that's just a shame...


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## independentgirl (Nov 14, 2014)

SimplyAmorous, I am not debate with you about which marriage lifestyle is best for you or best for anyone.
I was simply put in my 2 cents on saying how it would work out under my circumstances with my guy.
No offense intended, if anything in my post about my 2 cents input offended you, I apologize.

We can't control who other people married, but we can control who we married, so married who ever fits well with you, under your definition of what is the best marriage would be for you.
My guy doesn't count, he pretty much still lovestruck by me. Even if he disagree with my financial independent principle, he still would suck it up just to be with me, lol.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

There is chores and there is chores. 

Wifey expects me to wash the garage floor with pressure washer, pick up leaves, and finish painting a bedroom. And 20 other half done chores.

It's 22F outside so the outdoors stuff is not going to get done. 

The painting depends on how many other things I get interrupted with.

That is expectations gone wrong, expecting things will get done instantly. Not at age 55.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

independentgirl said:


> I just want to throw in my 2 cents. Have a Financial independent marriage is possible. Wife can works to helps put in the income too.
> 
> Here is an example from me and my guy. Both me and him are independent early in life. We both have our own jobs, no one depend on anyone financially.
> When we go out on dates, I help split with him. I know he works hard, so I never ask him to get me anything. Two people going on dates is enjoy each other companies, enjoying the time being together, so it doesn't matter that I also help to pay.
> ...


How is it balanced if you both contribute 50% of the income but you do all the cooking and cleaning?


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> False. An absolute over dramatization and exaggeration.
> 
> I challenge anyone to find a SAHM that gets zero material compensation, or one the truly works 24 hours a day.


While it's true that you get breaks, being the primary care giving parent means being on call 24 hours a day. If you have a spouse who thinks that bringing home the income is his job with occasional dad duties if absolutely necessary and your job is being the on-call parent 24/7, it can feel burdensome. SA might like it. I HATED it. It was oppressive to me. Because you never really get a mental break. You always have to be at the ready. 

NOW, I fully recognize that part of my issue was that I never had very good boundaries with my kids. And I had three kids, 2 years apart. The 24/7 thing probably wouldn't have felt so oppressive if I had allowed myself some real breaks and had picked a better spouse who didn't think parenting was only my job (and wasn't a verbally abusive, narcissistic, alcoholic.)

Although I don't think OP was blameless (sounds like he had resentments that he wasn't resolving either) I think it is on the wife to get her needs met and speak up. I completely understand NOT doing that. When I became a wife and mother I thought the definition of "good wife and mother" was completely sacrificing my own desires and needs for my husband and kids. Which, of course, made me desperately unhappy. It took me many years to realize that me being miserable didn't help anyone. That me being happy and having my needs met is not only good but vital. And in the context of relationship, that means speaking up, not letting things that bug me go all the time, and asking directly for what I want.

But don't men do that too? Didn't OP? You work hard and provide the nice house, car, nail appointments etc. because that's what you think you should do but some part of you resents it because you REALLY want to not have to work all the time. You really want to be able to relax sometimes and you'd be okay with a smaller house and car but think it's your job to provide what your wife wants. So maybe the advice to the OP should be: be clear about what your boundaries and desires are. Communicate them. And then find a woman who demonstrates the same.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

firebelly1 said:


> When I became a wife and mother I thought the definition of "good wife and mother" was completely sacrificing my own desires and needs for my husband and kids. Which, of course, made me desperately unhappy. It took me many years to realize that me being miserable didn't help anyone. That me being happy and having my needs met is not only good but vital. And in the context of relationship, that means speaking up, not letting things that bug me go all the time, and asking directly for what I want.


:iagree:
It took me too long to figure this out too. Now having to go back and undo bad habits and resentment is so difficult. I wish I had known then to speak up and get my needs met.


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

To be honest, I don't think one really knows until they marry someone. I lived with my first husband for three years before we got married and I thought he was perfect.

We got married and the wrapper came off Same thing with my second hubby. Love him to pieces and what didn't show up when we spent a year living together came out after we got married..and it still drives me nuts.

Marriage shouldn't make a difference, but for some reason it does. A friend of mine did what they called a "trial marriage" where they got married by some fake Justice of the Peace..(I know..weird huh??) They called it a Mock Wedding.

Few months later she said, "No way..you drive me nuts..I want a divorce.." and they've been happily living together since..LOL!!


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

We should all try that..Mock Marriages. 

More than anything I think it's a state of mind as they exchanged rings and everything. Even had a little party with friends afterwards.

Funny, he said, "I've been asking her to marry me for years and she just liked being engaged. Now that we're "married" she'll realize what she's been missing..."

It was soo funny when she filed "fake" divorce papers and he had to pay her child support with fake "Monopoly Money"..

Her son and future daughter in law saw it all and thought, "Yep..we're better off loving each other living together than hating each other being married.."


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

firebelly1 said:


> *NOW, I fully recognize that part of my issue was that I never had very good boundaries with my kids. And I had three kids, 2 years apart. The 24/7 thing probably wouldn't have felt so oppressive if I had allowed myself some real breaks and had picked a better spouse who didn't think parenting was only my job (and wasn't a verbally abusive, narcissistic, alcoholic.)*


I would be the 1st to say these things are HUGE.. OH I would allow myself what I wanted to do...Heck yeah... and never felt a bit guilty about it either .....







.. but I had the house carefully baby proofed, I wasn't against gates, binkys, playpens nor allowing my kids to be entertained by the TV either.. other moms may judge this... but I'll say.. have at it...the kids were happy, healthy, safe, well fed, they were just fine. 

A verbally abusive husband -how could any women find any solace or peace... it would suck the joys of parenting... 

I was never one who didn't speak up ....if I had something on my mind, someone would have to tie my mouth shut to not verbalize it... I tend to wear my feelings on my sleeve (this could be good or bad).. when it's bad.. his willingness to hear me out -this has a way of lifting my spirits, bringing it back to good...you feel cared for...this makes all the difference in the world.. 

It always takes 2...if one is met with rebuke , a bad attitude at every turn, belittling... anyone would emotionally shut down under that ... 

We knew this couple...one couldn't tell on the outside when you'd see them together.. (as is often the case).... I worked for them -in their home...plus we were friends, did some things together as couples...she wasn't treated right by her husband.... it made me & my H feel uncomfortable at times .. he wasn't an alcoholic or anything just controlling.. "my way or the highway " type attitude, he was a Guard at a prison...they had 2 kids...

She confided in me one day her plan ... to go to night school for a Nursing degree...(him having no idea she wanted to leave him)... and in due time...she carried it out.. she got herself a good job and left him...

He just wasn't a reasonable man to be assertive with, she was a very kind lady...but there was no talking to him....which really put her in a difficult place.



> *memyselfandi said*: *To be honest, I don't think one really knows until they marry someone. I lived with my first husband for three years before we got married and I thought he was perfect.
> 
> We got married and the wrapper came off Same thing with my second hubby. Love him to pieces and what didn't show up when we spent a year living together came out after we got married..and it still drives me nuts.
> 
> We should all try that..Mock Marriages*


 I am not just saying this.. we dated for years, I even lived with my H -his parents took me in at age 18..his little brothers room separated ours...then we got a little house together & planned our Wedding...we always felt it was better AFTER.. but it's something we anticipated for a long long time, I guess it's all in how one looks at it..


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

firebelly1 said:


> While it's true that you get breaks, being the primary care giving parent means being on call 24 hours a day. If you have a spouse who thinks that bringing home the income is his job with occasional dad duties if absolutely necessary and your job is being the on-call parent 24/7, it can feel burdensome. SA might like it. I HATED it. It was oppressive to me. Because you never really get a mental break. You always have to be at the ready.
> 
> NOW, I fully recognize that part of my issue was that I never had very good boundaries with my kids. And I had three kids, 2 years apart. The 24/7 thing probably wouldn't have felt so oppressive if I had allowed myself some real breaks and had picked a better spouse who didn't think parenting was only my job (and wasn't a verbally abusive, narcissistic, alcoholic.)
> 
> ...


Example. My wife tells me she wants to be a stay at home mom. I agree. We create a life. 

Then after two years what if I say "oh wow I am losing myself. I didn't really think I would have to work this hard! I want out ". I would be a major flake. 

But so often women do thAt. "Oh I lost myself after I had a child". Well yes. Kids are work. A responsibility. 

In my scenario , and in many , women have lots of different stress before being married. Dating sucks. Bills suck. Having a boss sucks. No love sucks. No children. Etc. But them they marry, have those issues taken care of, then discover having a family is work too. What does it even mean when a woman says "I lost myself". I just never hear married men saying this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

To be the best partner/parent you can be you have to be adaptable imo. If it's to work because the family needs the income, then work. If it's to stay at home to take care of the kids, then stay at home. The successful marriages are ones where the man and woman worked out who was best in what role and they just got in and got it done.

I was keen on being independent and earning my own money etc, but when I got married and fell pregnant, DH and I worked out what we wanted for our kids and the best way we knew to achieve it. If all one or both partners care about is satisfying themselves rather than compromising to achieve the best outcome, well, that's when you don't get the best outcome.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

> Originally Posted by Revamped View Post
> 
> I think YOU have a strange version of reality...
> 
> ...


LMFAO. It is completely fair. 

(1) A SAHM does not work 24/7. If pushing a vacuum, cleaning dishes, and doing laundry is work, then hell, I have been working since I was 8. A freakin monkey could push the thing and push buttons on machines. 

(2) No pay? I am PRETTY SURE that a SAHM walks around with a credit card and cash. I am PRETTY SURE that a SAHM eats meals and sleeps at night. I am PRETTY SURE a SAHM drives a car and watches TV. Unbelievable...

Feminism at its finest, ladies and gentlemen.

Thank god there are still plenty of women who are reasonable to their full time 100% provider husband who will most likely be on high blood pressure medication before he's 50.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

wise said:


> LMFAO. It is completely fair.
> 
> (1) A SAHM does not work 24/7. If pushing a vacuum, cleaning dishes, and doing laundry is work, then hell, I have been working since I was 8. A freakin monkey could push the thing and push buttons on machines.
> 
> ...


From one extreme to another. 24/7 worker or a monkey... and apparently women's struggle to be recognised as equals under the law and equal pay for equal work is responsible on top of that. I can see a monkey, and it's not the SAHM on here.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

going back to original question : detecting unrealistic expectations at early stage , I believe :

Chemsitry is the most important thing ; if no chemistry , no communication ,no respect no passion .

CHEMISTRY AND PASSION ARE THE BASE :

“Only once in your life, I truly believe, you find someone who can completely turn your world around. You tell them things that you’ve never shared with another soul and they absorb everything you say and actually want to hear more. You share hopes for the future, dreams that will never come true, goals that were never achieved and the many disappointments life has thrown at you. When something wonderful happens, you can’t wait to tell them about it, knowing they will share in your excitement. They are not embarrassed to cry with you when you are hurting or laugh with you when you make a fool of yourself. Never do they hurt your feelings or make you feel like you are not good enough, but rather they build you up and show you the things about yourself that make you special and even beautiful. There is never any pressure, jealousy or competition but only a quiet calmness when they are around. You can be yourself and not worry about what they will think of you because they love you for who you are. The things that seem insignificant to most people such as a note, song or walk become invaluable treasures kept safe in your heart to cherish forever. Memories of your childhood come back and are so clear and vivid it’s like being young again. Colours seem brighter and more brilliant. Laughter seems part of daily life where before it was infrequent or didn’t exist at all. A phone call or two during the day helps to get you through a long day’s work and always brings a smile to your face. In their presence, there’s no need for continuous conversation, but you find you’re quite content in just having them nearby. Things that never interested you before become fascinating because you know they are important to this person who is so special to you. You think of this person on every occasion and in everything you do. Simple things bring them to mind like a pale blue sky, gentle wind or even a storm cloud on the horizon. You open your heart knowing that there’s a chance it may be broken one day and in opening your heart, you experience a love and joy that you never dreamed possible. You find that being vulnerable is the only way to allow your heart to feel true pleasure that’s so real it scares you. You find strength in knowing you have a true friend and possibly a soul mate who will remain loyal to the end. Life seems completely different, exciting and worthwhile. Your only hope and security is in knowing that they are a part of your life.”


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

independentgirl said:


> . . Wife can works to helps put in the income too.
> 
> . . . We both have our own jobs, no one depend on anyone financially.
> When we go out on dates, I help split with him. . . .
> ...



independentgirl,

You are being more than fair. As firebelly said earlier; how is this balanced if you split the finances half-and-half; but you do all the housework?

Now, if your soon-to-be-husband does all the yardwork, looks after the cars and does any repairs around the house; then that would qualify as being balanced.

Just wouldn't want you to get taken advantage of.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

breeze said:


> From one extreme to another. 24/7 worker or a monkey... and apparently women's struggle to be recognised as equals under the law and equal pay for equal work is responsible on top of that. I can see a monkey, and it's not the SAHM on here.


The truth is that when are not motivated by earning more money. Companies do not pay them "less" because of their genitals.. Or it would make more sense for companies never to hire men..

The women who complain about a kid being a 24/7 job are definitely not the ones who want to work and split bills either.. My wife started to pull that and I actually added up the hours she was with my son.. i got him ready in the morning, she drove him to daycare where she worked, and then back home by 1. I came home at 5-6..Played with him, put him in bed, read him a book, bathed him.. So really the 24/7 was 5 days a week for 4-5 hours a day...

Half the time they can blame the "patriarchy", and conclude "I won't do the housework just because I am a woman. I am not a slave" Then the other half of the time they can state "A real man supports his family"

There is no winning with this type of woman.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

intheory said:


> independentgirl,
> 
> You are being more than fair. As firebelly said earlier; how is this balanced if you split the finances half-and-half; but you do all the housework?
> 
> ...


Unless they live on a farm or have a house in need of daily repairs and broken down cars, it's not balanced. 

Eventually independentgirl might feel completely taken advantage of. She sounds like she has low self esteem and is compensating by being "perfect". I've been there, it can only last so long until you break. By that time habits are set, he is used to having his wife happily be the Mother and the maid and the chef and the sex toy and will have no idea why she's so unhappy. 

Maybe his love used to be compensation enough for everything she was doing but no only has stopped being enough, he stopped really appreciating her. The "OMG baby this meal is amazing, I love your cooking. Thank you for doing this" has turned into "what's for dinner?" the minute you walk in the door. The little things he would do for you to show you how special you were to him have stopped. No more random flowers, "just because" love cards, having to get up right that moment and kiss you when you are doing the dishes because you look so cute in the rubber gloves. 

Then she grows resentful and stops wanting to do these things but instead does them out of necessity. If her communication skills aren't good he may have no idea what the hell is wrong. 
Maybe she stops the only thing she feels she can (hint- the kids need a Mother, house needs cleaning and people need to eat, that only leaves sex toy) 

Maybe then she eventually leaves because she's "unhappy". Husband just rolls his eyes and says "well, it's not my job to make her happy!" and she just becomes another one of those women people think had unrealistic expectations and got bored and moved on to the next.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Unless they live on a farm or have a house in need of daily repairs and broken down cars, it's not balanced.
> 
> Eventually independentgirl might feel completely taken advantage of. She sounds like she has low self esteem and is compensating by being "perfect". I've been there, it can only last so long until you break. By that time habits are set, he is used to having his wife happily be the Mother and the maid and the chef and the sex toy and will have no idea why she's so unhappy.
> 
> ...


Sex isn't mutually enjoyable? it is a favor the wife does?

Anyway, yes, of course both people grow a bit complacent.. Each meal isn't oohed and ahhed over, nor is the fact that the man spends every dime he earns on his wife and child.. I would feel odd if my ex wife thanked me over and over for every bill i paid as if it was our first dinner.

it just gets old when everything has to be tit for tat.. "Ok, you cut half the grass, take out the trash half the time, trim half the bushes, go to home depot half the time, etc"

if one person earns all the money, and has to do half the work at home, how is that beneficial to him or her? 

I think the issue is that if you are efficient, all of the household tasks can be taken care of really quickly.. Some people might take 45 minutes to boil an egg , so everything is so arduous for them..

Not sure what happened to women, but my grandma raised 13 children in the middle of a world war in Europe , and her house was bombed.. I dated a woman here that had 2 homes, a business, 12 horses, 6 dogs, 2 kids, 3 cars, and NEVER was once stressed.. She would actually cook for scratch daily for me...taped soccer games for me.. Always had time..

yet you come across SOME women, and any little thing that does not benefit them (shopping, gossiping, eating out) is the most arduous and horrible task on earth. Those are the women to avoid.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Sex isn't mutually enjoyable? it is a favor the wife does?


It is when your resentment has grown so much that you can't enjoy it anymore. 



marriedman321 said:


> Anyway, yes, of course both people grow a bit complacent.. Each meal isn't oohed and ahhed over, *nor is the fact that the man spends every dime he earns on his wife and child*.. I would feel odd if my ex wife thanked me over and over for every bill i paid as if it was our first dinner.


Well now who's acting the martyr? Your money was for you too. You had a home, bills were paid, you had a car with gas in it, you had someone looking after you child, food in the fridge to eat. Both spouses should give appreciation for the things the other does. It sounds like you really do want to be recognized and praised for the hard work you did to bring home money- as you should be. Just know that it works both ways.



marriedman321 said:


> it just gets old when everything has to be tit for tat.. "Ok, you cut half the grass, take out the trash half the time, trim half the bushes, go to home depot half the time, etc"
> 
> if one person earns all the money, and has to do half the work at home, how is that beneficial to him or her?


It's not. A home shouldn't have 1 person feeling like they are doing too much. It is pretty impossible to cut everything down a neat 50/50 line BUT when you stop appreciating and acknowledging the work the other is doing, a reasonable split gets more difficult. She assumes your work outside the home isn't that hard, you can do more. You assume her work at home isn't too hard, she can do more. 
I work, I also take care if the home and children's needs about 95% on my own. I know both jobs are difficult in their own way. 



marriedman321 said:


> I think the issue is that if you are efficient, all of the household tasks can be taken care of really quickly.. Some people might take 45 minutes to boil an egg , so everything is so arduous for them..


Ever hear that trying to clean a home while the children are there is like trying to shovel while it's still snowing? There's always _something _to do when you are running a home. Some days are easier than others. Some days you can feel so overwhelmed that you can't even function anymore. Again I see a lot of "I worked hard, she didn't" That doesn't get you anywhere. " I work hard, so does she" will get you a lot further. 



marriedman321 said:


> Not sure what happened to women, but my grandma raised 13 children in the middle of a world war in Europe , and her house was bombed.. I dated a woman here that had 2 homes, a business, 12 horses, 6 dogs, 2 kids, 3 cars, and NEVER was once stressed.. She would actually cook for scratch daily for me...taped soccer games for me.. Always had time..
> 
> yet you come across SOME women, and any little thing that does not benefit them (shopping, gossiping, eating out) is the most arduous and horrible task on earth. Those are the women to avoid.


Women used to put up with a lot of crap with a smile on their face. Doesn't make it a good thing. 

If you wanted a woman who was a type A, always doing everything and never needed a break, you should have married one. Find one like your ex next time. But don't assume that type of woman is any better than the next, it's just different. It's what you need from a partner.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> It is when your resentment has grown so much that you can't enjoy it anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I understand. And I probably didn't give enough appreciation. 

I guess I grew up with one of those moms who always had a smile. And believe it or not , not all women are "faking" it. She enjoyed raising us and taking care of the home. If you have to so something, why not do it with a smile? 

Some women out there can give there husband foot rubs everyday . Keep a spotless house, and take care of the kids. That husband will so anything for his wife. 

Another woman might view the above as the "patriarchy" and it is demeaning. The issue is that most of these women don't want to be "equal" either. They just sort of want to so nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

marriedman321 said:


> I understand. And I probably didn't give enough appreciation.
> 
> I guess I grew up with one of those moms who always had a smile. And believe it or not , not all women are "faking" it. She enjoyed raising us and taking care of the home. If you have to so something, why not do it with a smile?
> 
> ...


I think Gratitude for what we have has a lot to do with our attitudes too...

Some are spoiled before they ever get married ...too pampered at home...Mothers who cater to their sons doing everything for them is also not helping their future wives... Allow our children to WORK hard and contribute to the family dynamics..

In my growing up yrs...there was no allowance, I had a job at 16, I bought my own car...and paid my own insurance, I was also expected to be on my own at 18......

I learned the value of a $1 and hard work for it's reward in itself.. such thinking was good for a young marriage.. saving for a rainy day, not expecting the world in my 20's... but thankful for what we did have.. that we were healthy/ able bodied to work towards our dreams...you do what you have to do.. to bring it all together so, hopefully... your family can have a smoother ride in the future.. 

A good friend of mine was in a bad accident 2 days ago, her life will forever be changed.. arm broke in 3 places, will need a hip replacement, pins in her knees, her newer car he bought her for their wedding a year ago.. totaled.... who know when she will even be able to go back to work...I'm sure she'd give anything in this world to just go back to the life she was living... instead she faces 6 months in a nursing home / physical therapy.. I don't know what all.. 

This friend of mine was single for many years, she worked & never complained.. she didn't even have health insurance (I always worried about her)... thankfully she married last year, has it now.. and now this.. she was happy before this -even when things were really tough struggling to raise 2 kids alone...she was always one so thankful for what she had...

Just writing this out, thinking about her right now.. somehow I just KNOW , even in this.. she will still be thankful , cause that's how she has always been.. I give her a lot of credit.. Not so sure I would have had her attitude during the difficulties she has faced over the years.


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## HappyGilmore (Jul 20, 2014)

:iagree:

Thank you SimplyAmorous for a series of very thoughtful and insightful posts. 

Gratitude is lacking in our day. There is a pandemic of selfish entitled a$$holishness in our society, and this is the result, OP. People that are unhappy no matter what. 

How to detect signs of such unreasonable, negative people? I think the answer is in your post: not able to be happy at all under any circumstance. Look for the big red flag of someone who is always complaining. 

The woman should be happy in her own skin, able to be alone, single, and work. She may not be her happiest in that situation, but she should be the type that makes the best of it. She should be able to find joy in her circumstances. That doesn't me she's smiling all the time, or that she doesn't have bad days, or stressed out days, or even days in which she may say "FML." (Heck, I have a great life, but sometimes even I say that). But this should not be chronic. Otherwise, it could indicate someone who will carry that deep unhappiness into whatever life brings them.

Hope this helps...


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> I understand. And I probably didn't give enough appreciation.
> 
> I guess I grew up with one of those moms who always had a smile. And believe it or not , not all women are "faking" it. She enjoyed raising us and taking care of the home. If you have to so something, why not do it with a smile?
> 
> ...


Is it possible that sometimes the more we do, and the more we provide, the more that is expected of us?

Let me give an example. A woman is married to a guy with a drug problem. She stands by his side, helps him through rehab etc. Another woman is married to a guy who can't hold a job. If he has a job for two weeks she is so happy with him. Another husband goes to strip clubs and bars. His wife looks the other way. Etc. 

Then you have a guy who is married to a woman and is faithful, hard working, selfless, good provider, good dad, loving, wants to improve the relationship. And he is "not good enough". Wife just not happy. She feels she is trapped or losing herself or doing too much etc. She feels maybe the grass is greener. 

Maybe it just isn't fair. I don't know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ellaenchanted (Sep 7, 2014)

I'm my opinion, when you first meet somebody and aren't happy with their current life, it's usually a red flag. Find someone that's content, confident and happy... That had their own life set up and aren't waiting for a man to come and save them.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Is it possible that sometimes the more we do, and the more we provide, the more that is expected of us?
> 
> Let me give an example. A woman is married to a guy with a drug problem. She stands by his side, helps him through rehab etc. Another woman is married to a guy who can't hold a job. If he has a job for two weeks she is so happy with him. Another husband goes to strip clubs and bars. His wife looks the other way. Etc.
> 
> ...


You're assuming the women in the first examples are happy. They may stay, they may not say anything, but are they really happy with their life and spouse?

It sounds like you were a good husband and are a good father but it sounds like you also have some unrealistic expectations yourself. Maybe you are more drawn to women like your Mother, the "perfect" wife and mother, doing everything, keep the home spotless and the kids in line, home cooked meal put on the table for you, smile on her face and never complaining. Are there women like that? Sure, just like there are some men who are "movie romantic" But both are setting ideals on a spouse that are many times impossible to keep up with.


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## HappyGilmore (Jul 20, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> Is it possible that sometimes the more we do, and the more we provide, the more that is expected of us?
> 
> Let me give an example. A woman is married to a guy with a drug problem. She stands by his side, helps him through rehab etc. Another woman is married to a guy who can't hold a job. If he has a job for two weeks she is so happy with him. Another husband goes to strip clubs and bars. His wife looks the other way. Etc.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I think it amounts to pure p1ss-poor bad luck. I don't think that the bulk of good guys get walked on, while the drug addicts have these long suffering wives who will do anything for them. Sure, we all know about "that guy," or "that girl," but really, in all honesty, can we say that they are statistically representative of the culture at large? What we see here on TAM is a population (mostly) of people who have been burned in some way or another, and carry a burden of bitterness. Hence the "nice guy/bad boy" dichotomies, for example. The black and white thinking of people who have been hurt--and usually pretty deeply. It's a defense mechanism. In reality, most people exist in between the extremes. 

You had the misfortune of building a relationship and marriage with someone who had unhealthy beliefs/expectations. Hopefully, you will have learned from your mistakes, and look for a more positive person in the future. Surround yourself with positive people, both men and women. Avoid the negative, bitter, entitled people. 

(and read all posts by SimplyAmorous. She has a lot of good, uplifting things to say)


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *marriedman321 said:**Then you have a guy who is married to a woman and is faithful, hard working, selfless, good provider, good dad, loving, wants to improve the relationship. *


 Are you speaking here about yourself? 

Can you focus on where you feel you missed it or could have done better ....you did say you could have praised her more.. what if her #1 Love language was "*Words of Affirmation*"... but you rarely complimented her or made her feel like she was special or verbally recognized the things she did do..

Often our love languages are not the same, without knowing, or without effectively communicating these. ...we can miss each other, and feel less loved ...when they go un-met.. do you think some of this could have been at play ? on either end/ both ends ?








 Love Languages Personal Profile 



















> *Wise said*:
> *And I repeat, a monkey can do the tasks of a SAHM (not including taking care of children). That is why people pay immigrants/uneducated people to be there maid. Because it does not take any thought or knowledge to push a vacuum, pick things up, and push buttons. Not saying all maids are uneducated; just making a point*.


 As much as I should be offended to being compared to a







...basically being an uneducated /no degree SAH mother....the reality is....One doesn't need much skills to run a household.. it's basically all common sense and thankfully some mighty fine conveniences to help us out ! A whole lot easier than it was back in my Grandmother's day!

I know I have other assets that a monkey would never come close to fulfilling , of course.. so it's all good !


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I work, I also take care if the home and children's needs about 95% on my own. I know both jobs are difficult in their own way.



If you work; why do you do 95% of the home and child duties? I hope your H makes up for this somehow.

Didn't you have a thread about how he doesn't care for you when you are sick? That's not a good sign at all.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

Once the relationship between a husband and a wife becomes a duty :

it not love anymore ; it is just a family institution .

I will not nagg about my wife !

I can summarize that when one of the spouses is selfish emotionally or materialistically the other person will suffer .

Coming from a conservative environment in the middle east ; or from the best advanced places is the same ; some people engage in the sacred social contract just because they feel more secure ; 
will have someone to depend on and use this as a bridge to become 

more independant by sucking benefits from people around and happiness accordingly .

The abuser can be a male or female ; but females are better in it because this creature is always more protected by the shell of feminism , social or religious than man .

This lovely creature is hiding under the equality between genders to be more independant as well as sucking benefits effectively .

I am not saying that all women are like this ; but the majority of those who are spoiled in there early life are like this .

I have 2 girls and definitely one of them is this type ; the other one is a warrior who have 2-3 stretch marks on her eyberows , proud of them as warrior marks ; the other is still seeking 1000 remedies to have a scar .

I believe marriedman321 that your marriage will only work if you can live a lifetime with this ; I think if your are young yopu don't deserve this ; throw the towel and move .

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT IF YOU STAY ; DO NOT BREED ANOTHER CHILD ;

gd luck


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

marriedman321 said:


> I understand. And I probably didn't give enough appreciation.
> 
> I guess I grew up with one of those moms who always had a smile. And believe it or not , not all women are "faking" it. She enjoyed raising us and taking care of the home. If you have to so something, why not do it with a smile?
> 
> ...


I get the feeling that it's possible your wife was never good enough for you no matter what she did. She was never going to be your mother. What happens when no matter what you do you never feel like it'll be enough for your spouse? Probably stop giving a stuff I imagine. Maybe some of these issues you had with her were also her issues with you.

I've seen another male on here talking like that. He really does treat his wife like garbage but he thinks he's fantastic, while telling everybody how crap his wife is and how she'll never live up to his mother.

I'll tell you something, my own mother did everything around the house, raised us kids, worked full time, and what did she get out of it? Cracked teeth from clenching her jaw at night and heart attacks, on top of other things. I'm seeing the reality, not the ideal I want to see.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

Breeze , 

The man who keeps comparing his wife to his mother needs consultancy ; it is similar if she compares him to her father ;Which hurts a lot the husband too.

The change in last few decades is that now is the lifestyle changed , Cultural effects , mentality of majority of wives nowadays is toward " Feminist Led Relation " to achieve more .

Previously the women choice was simple ;If she is married , she can work at ease but priority is for her family ; now it is more complex she is as equal as to man in society , but will use all feminist arms she has to cheat when obliged ; And when she seduces Bill he is the only one to be blamed.

A lot of women worked hard , proud of their carrier, did a lot of achievements and have lovely families ; but to name them successful they should receive support from their spouses without " Sucking Happiness out of their hearts".

I know a lady who used to study for her PHD while breast feeding her child ; and another one who failed her MBA and blamed GOD, Lunar eclipse and everybody despite that she was given the best environment for study .


Today , the culture is that , Many women they want to achieve a lot of things at the same time ;and during this process they suck benefits (financial , emotional,protection , etc ...) from their husbands to achieve this ; Some husbands do this too , but they don't have really the secret weapons , a women have .

Now going back to our dear OP , who is analyzing his divorce experience ; I can tell ; when a women have no hobby , no passion ; she will end up spending years blaming her husband that he was not able to make her happy .

Marriedman : don't look back ; work now on cleansing your heart ; life is short , enjoy it ; it is not worth to spend it in vain ; take a rest; then go and find a real soul mate ; one who would share with you a passion .


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

The thing is, the divorced or soon to be divorced men jump on the bandwagon claiming that their marriage failed due to the woman being unhappy in the relationship. 

This whole thread is proof that these men have not taken a step back and realized their part in the destruction of their marraiges. Blaming a woman for being a stay at home mom, then blaming a woman for working outside the home. It just goes on and on...

In faced with the end of their marriages, these same men brood and pick apart what 50% of the human race is doing "wrong" in their eyes.

Maybe if they'd do some self reflection and self realization, they wouldn't find themselves in the predicament they're in, angry and alone.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

intheory said:


> If you work; why do you do 95% of the home and child duties? I hope your H makes up for this somehow.
> 
> Didn't you have a thread about how he doesn't care for you when you are sick? That's not a good sign at all.


Yep, I have a crappy marriage that makes me very unhappy. 

That's the thing, I was on my own, raising my son, making my own money, taking care of my own home and making myself happy for years before I met H.
But years of unmet needs take a toll on anyone and you become unhappy. Can an H make me happy- absolutely. By meeting my needs, loving me and being the partner I was wanting. 

OP's wife needed more romance. He felt he did enough by making money.
If this was a thread by a woman who cleaned the house and took after the kids but never or rarely had sex with her husband and he eventually left, would people say "Eh, some men just will never be happy. He should have made himself happy with all that you did for him. Good for you for getting rid of that guy!" 

No, people would explain that he had needs, you didn't meet them, he became unhappy and left. 

There are the rare women and men who will never be happy no matter what, but this is the extreme and the vast majority of people fall somewhere in the middle. When I hear about an unhappy spouse, I think odds are that there are unmet needs. It is only rarely that this wouldn't be the case.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Yep, I have a crappy marriage that makes me very unhappy.
> 
> That's the thing, I was on my own, raising my son, making my own money, taking care of my own home and making myself happy for years before I met H.
> But years of unmet needs take a toll on anyone and you become unhappy. Can an H make me happy- absolutely. By meeting my needs, loving me and being the partner I was wanting.
> ...


Let me give an example of a mature woman.. 

They have two kids and were about to go out to a party.. She tells her husband "Honey, before we go out to this social function, let's take a half hour alone to connect with each other." She senses something, and is proactive. 

It really is amazing when so many women withdraw, cheat, expect you to be a mind reader, and then others say "Oh see, you weren't romantic enough. You just cared about money". As if that is a green light for cheating. Somehow even being a good provider is twisted into something bad. 

Secondly, if I just decide "Oh, raising a family and being married is too much work.. I am not "happy". "i lost myself" "I 'm out".. I would be a deadbeat dad, deserter, horrible person. When women do this, they must have had some horrible abusive husband.

I doubt any feminists would have sympathy for me if i did what many women do.. Let's say my wife works and i sit home with 1 child.. I go to the mall, have lunch with friends etc.. Then I start an affair, leave, and say "Oh, sweetie, you worked a lot but money isn't everything.. I found this other girl on Facebook and we have more sex and romance" I would be an ungrateful pig.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Who are you kidding?

You'd brush her off so fast... Tell to hurry up, get ready...



And why didn't YOU take that path? Are YOU so self absorded that you didn"t feel the need to check in with your wife about the state of your marriage?

You show an awfully one sided marriage here. It's always HER fault, when in fact it was BOTH of yours.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Anyone recommend to you to read and memorize Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011??????

Grow a pair, grow up, be a man. And all that....
Are you fat and out of shape? Go to the gym, get buf, balance alpha and beta. Be a better man for crying out loud.

Improve you. Be a leader in your life and relationship.

Re-title your thread so it asks about you instead of her...


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> I
> 
> Some women out there can give there husband foot rubs everyday . Keep a spotless house, and take care of the kids. That husband will so anything for his wife.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some women are doing those things because if they don't, the husband will physically or verbally abuse them. And less extreme, but I think more common, the women do these things and the man feels entitled / takes it for granted so doesn't do anything for his wife.


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

Believe it or not Im not bashing you, I just can’t hold my tongue any longer.

IMO I must say after reading your thread, you have successfully figured out how to divide the sexes. 
I hope this was NOT your attitude when you married your so called selfish wife. If it was, I see why you are getting a divorce.

Now with that said, There are a lot of woman like you state your wife is and most don’t hide the fact that they are a TROPHY wife, it seems men are oh so eager to have this hot wife on their arm, but don’t care so much for the woman’s attitude later on.

I think any man that ends up with one of these selfish types of woman are on them, I don’t believe for one minute you didn’t see what kind of person she was in the beginning and that goes for us woman as well.

Her saying she is unhappy does not portray all woman who can’t ever be happy, so I can’t follow that logic.

That’s as bad as saying all men are dogs and treat there wife like property.

I have spent a good part of my life being unhappy and also on medication for depression, that does not define me as a woman who can’t ever be happy, I have been dealt some hard hands, I can waller in self-pity or look at the big picture and try to make life better. 

When people marry there will be sacrifice on both sides, weather working or staying home, it’s no longer about the individual and if you decided to bring children into the mix, prepare for life as your know if to be 100% different.

Now, she cheated and that is all on her, you don’t own that!! You do need to look within yourself to see if there are things you can change for any future relationships you want to have, from the little you have wrote, you seem to be wanting a stepford wife and that too is unrealistic. 

BTW…. I work 50+ hours a week, raised 2 sons with one still in college, we both cook, clean, My husband is at home and does his fair share of other home duties as well.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

learning to love myself said:


> Believe it or not Im not bashing you, I just can’t hold my tongue any longer.
> 
> IMO I must say after reading your thread, you have successfully figured out how to divide the sexes.
> I hope this was NOT your attitude when you married your so called selfish wife. If it was, I see why you are getting a divorce.
> ...


You mention stepfors and trophy wives. Let me ask this. 

Is there a correlation between a woman's beauty and her level of being shallow?

I once saw a link that showed how there are no ugly women, just poor women. And it had before and after. The after photos the women were gorgeous. In the before photos they were far below average. 

What I am getting at is that attractive women usually put a lot of effort into looks. Count every calorie. Exercise. The right clothes. Make up. Hair etc. Could they so all of this because they are insecure inside, which leads to always needing excessive attention and compliments?

My wife was obese until 18, then became a model later in life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> See. To support 3 people I worked more than 9 hours a day. Never complained. If you don't want that nice house, new car, vacations and nice clothes along with hair and nail appointments please tell me so I can work less. Or put the kid in daycare and work 11 hours a day too. You can't have everything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You do realize, that you would be doing exactly the same if you didn't have family? and then you would have to cook, clean, do laundry for yourself.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> The child is not a baby forever. Babies also take naps. Actually sleep most of the time. Soon the child starts pre school. I wonder how many moms on their death beds are saying "wow i only wish I worked outside of the home all the time so I didn't have to spend so much time with my baby. "
> 
> What many women with the princess syndrome want is a nanny so that they can have no responsibilities. Which is what my wife was asking for.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You know, maybe that's the problem in your social circle? I do not know anyone with nanny. Babysitter - yes, so you can go out with your husband, but not nanny. 

if you looked for a princess, you found one. I guess this is one of the cases "be careful what you wish for"....


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> You mention stepfors and trophy wives. Let me ask this.
> 
> Is there a correlation between a woman's beauty and her level of being shallow?
> 
> ...


I believe a good portion of the time, yes.

I will give myself and my cousin as an example:

I married for love, not money.

I'm a big girl, 5'10 not BBW but very curvy. I was a thin child and teenager, I grew up with parents that have been married 53 years, and no money. 

I have always been extremely insecure with my appearance, I had a very abusive boyfriend and he used to tell me I was unattractive, this went on for almost 10 years from 12-21 years old. I did realize later it was his way of keeping me.

Its very easy to believe the bad, so this stuck with me up until about 6 years ago, I don't want to sound conceded but I know I'm hot now & I'm the bread winner, I have bought 3 homes and paid for both kids to go to school.

My Cousin:

She is very thin now and always has been, she used to say she was getting fat so people would tell her (are you crazy look at you) her parents married the whole time, Like my family there was no extra money growing-up.

Now I knew from the age of 11 my cousin was going to marry for money and looks were not a factor, all of her young teen/adult years she dated men with homes and cars and lets just say (YUCK), football players, CEO's.

She did marry a man whom she thought had money and had 2 kids she did love him but ended up having an affaire and leaving him for a man that was 25 years her senior.

He bought her a house, boat and car and after about 5 years she then met someone else and married him. She does not work and has a 2.5 million dollar home and the deal was he wanted a child, so she had one with the promise of a live in nanny and a house keeper. 

She looks great, I wish I had the money to go to the Spa twice weekly to look fresh. She has always portrayed an odd confidence but maybe I would too if a walked around in Prada and money was of no concern.

As children we spent every moment together and were very similar until our teens. 

You tell me what happened.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

marriedman321 said:


> I was reading when teddy Roosevelt married , on his wedding night he gave his wife a bunch of socks to fix and sew. Can you imagine women today if you asked them to do anythjng like this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You say that as if it's a bad thing that the women of today would react poorly to being given socks to mend on their wedding night. I'm glad society is evolving in many countries. If you want a woman who is cowed and subservient, there are places where they're still stoned to death in the streets. I'm sure you'd find one there.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Why is it just me that doesn't see the things this original poster is saying as blatantly unreasonable.. My Lord, he mentions his mother.. WOW.. that is huge.. use it against him...slam him , crucify him!

Some of us women had a wonderful loving / giving father, do you think the male posters of TAM would jump all over us if WE mentioned him as someone we respected ...as a role model.. :wtf: I mean, I can see if he's throwing it in her face ... maybe he never even mentioned it TO HER.. I don't know!.. I don't think mentioning it *here* makes him a monster though...

And this comment by Q tip >> "Grow a pair, grow up, be a man. And all that....*Are you fat and out of shape?* Go to the gym, get buf, balance alpha and beta. Be a better man for crying out loud."...

I can just imagine a male poster on TAM saying this to a female poster..... and how he would get lambasted ... but ..Oh, he's a man, so shoot him down, make it all his fault she cheated on him..

Honesty.. I am probably the most pampered Princess on this forum in regards to Romance.. yet somehow I can see *how she let him down too*... You all don't think his wife expected too much from him ?? Really ?? one kid.. "Hire a maid honey, I can't do it all ..hanging out at Starbucks & all" 

Oh pleeeasseee.. 

Maybe it's just HOW he asked the question.. that comes off so bad.. I guess I am one who is trying to give him the benefit of the doubt here.... however he hasn't answered my specific questions.. so I don't know. 

Carry on...


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

breeze said:


> You say that as if it's a bad thing that the women of today would react poorly to being given socks to mend on their wedding night. I'm glad society is evolving in many countries. If you want a woman who is cowed and subservient, there are places where they're still stoned to death in the streets. I'm sure you'd find one there.


Well it is a bad thing that 1 out of 4 American women of today are on anti depressants. Others self medicate with other drugs, alcohol or food. Broken homes, single moms, etc. Not exactly great things..I don't think if we move way from traditional roles more and more that equals "happiness" for women.

I don't even think women are anymore independent today at all. They just sort of traded households tasks for sex acts. 

Real equality could be achieved overnight. No more big diamond rings for marrying.. No more men paying on dates. No more alimony. No more being a stay at home mom.. Divide the work and pay half..No more money from your dad to help you out..

I know so many feminist types that have absolutely no problem with all of the above. I have yet to meet a woman who wants to be truly equal in my life.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Honesty.. I am probably the most pampered Princess on this forum in regards to Romance.. yet somehow I can see *how she let him down too*... You all don't think his wife expected too much from him ?? Really ?? one kid.. "Hire a maid honey, I can't do it all ..hanging out at Starbucks & all"


I don't think anyone is saying his wife is a saint here. Just that he is trying to blame her and really the entire female population for his marriage failing instead of looking at the things HE did to also contribute to it. 

He's asking about how to pick a better woman for next time but if he doesn't change his own ideas about women and marriage he's going to end up in the same situation. Their marriage is already over, she's not here to try to talk to. If she was I would tell her that IMO she needed to either work or do close to 100% of the household duties as her job.

He's the only one who is here so people are focusing on him and what he can do better next time.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Well it is a bad thing that 1 out of 4 American women of today are on anti depressants. Others self medicate with other drugs, alcohol or food. Broken homes, single moms, etc. Not exactly great things..I don't think if we move way from traditional roles more and more that equals "happiness" for women.


So you think women in those days were happier than we are now? 



marriedman321 said:


> Real equality could be achieved overnight. No more big diamond rings for marrying.. No more men paying on dates. No more alimony. No more being a stay at home mom.. Divide the work and pay half..No more money from your dad to help you out..



Equality means that you have the opportunity to do all the things a man can do. It doesn't mean you have to do them. It's having the choice. 

It also means that YOU have the opportunity to be a SAHD, to find a partner who wants to buy you rings and pay for dates. You chose not to, she chose to.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

well it looks like the two of you are very bad match: she is a princess that needs nannies and housekeepers. You are a prince, that needs nanny and housekeeper. Both stuck in XIX century. 

I don't have a big diamond ring. I was paying for dates wtih then my fiance. I was SAHM for five years. Now I am working mother, managing business and home. No nanny or housekeeper for me. 

the anti-depressants that women take (I am sure no real man is on one, right? that would make him a ***** in your world) - you know when I could have used one, looking now from time perspective? When I was SAHM. I am just not cut for this, no matter how much I love my kids. But in your mind this is perfect life, so why?

Frankly, the generalizations you are saying here about women, - I personally find it insulting.


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## Kresaera (Nov 8, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> I am recently divorced. Going into my marriage I thought I made a good choice.
> *~We all thought this, or we wouldn't have gotten married *
> 
> Her parents were married for 50 years. She was a hard worker. Had girlfriends. Did not drink, smoke, never did drugs etc.
> ...


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## MysticTeenager (Aug 13, 2013)

I dont have much advice as I think I am either depressed or a bit like your wife.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

*Kresaera ,

Your husband is very lucky because he is married it seems to a very mature women .*

"As a current stay at home mom, I can understand this, however, that doesn't make it your job to "make her happy" She needs to figure out something that makes her happy on her own before she can ever be happy in a relationship".

* 
When women decides to be at home mom ,she opt and accept to be the women who is taking care of the family and emotionally sharing with her husband his emotions and passion 

Women who want to be both a succesful wife and a Business or carrier oriented women should have a very high ability , maturity , patience and commitment , is she required to be a superwomen ?

Otherwise what cost is incurred ? Usually the lowest cost is the husband ...



What is obvious is that some women wants to achieve success without making enough efforts or they can't do those efforts but still want the fame ; they want everything , they play the role of a Mom , a Successfull Business women , a good wife (Social Definition) ,an indepandant person , an equal oprtunity model , etc... But they loose The most beautiful charm God has created with : *

Feminism .

Have you ever touched a beautiful Greek sculpture of Venus ?

would a man or a women touch in the same way Zeus Sculpture ?


Among thousands of nude paintaings ( ART NO PORN), very few are for a nude man ; and I doubt that any of us will buy it for 1$ and put it at home .


Why ?

because it is against the NORM .


What I want to say ; Venus is a Godess of Love ,fertility , passion ; Zeus is GOD of the sky and ruler of the Olympian gods...

Venus , You are so beautiful ,GOD damn it , Be the lovely fire in Hearts


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I don't think anyone is saying his wife is a saint here. Just that he is trying to blame her and really the entire female population for his marriage failing instead of looking at the things HE did to also contribute to it.


 he was expressing how that attitude was hard on the marriage.. take this away... would it give the full picture ?? I say NO, it would not.. 

The fact he hasn't been so humble to his own flaws ...other than saying he could have praised her a little more .. I guess we can all read into this ...his being a little "hard nosed".. 



> He's asking about how to pick a better woman for next time but if he doesn't change his own ideas about women and marriage he's going to end up in the same situation.


 See I really don't have any issue with his beliefs ..or his more traditional style thinking.. this does not make one a bad man ...my H is the same.. I have no complaints whatsoever. 

Does he really have that attitude, do you marriedman321...you think just working, throwing some money at your wife is enough....basically a stepford zombie/ monkey is all you need ....this seems to be how some see you here.. 



> Their marriage is already over, she's not here to try to talk to. If she was I would tell her that *IMO she needed to either work or do close to 100% of the household duties as her job.*


 Something we agree on.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Why is it just me that doesn't see the things this original poster is saying as blatantly unreasonable.. My Lord, he mentions his mother.. WOW.. that is huge.. use it against him...slam him , crucify him!
> 
> Some of us women had a wonderful loving / giving father, do you think the male posters of TAM would jump all over us if WE mentioned him as someone we respected ...as a role model.. :wtf: I mean, I can see if he's throwing it in her face ... maybe he never even mentioned it TO HER.. I don't know!.. I don't think mentioning it *here* makes him a monster though...
> 
> ...


Lol, it's how all the follow on comments bring all the previous comments into question. I'm doubting it was as he's portraying it. Call me cynical, but when the foundations are so rocky, I have to doubt that anything built upon them is trustworthy.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> he was expressing how that attitude was hard on the marriage.. take this away... would it give the full picture ?? I say NO, it would not..
> 
> The fact he hasn't been so humble to his own flaws ...other than saying he could have praised her a little more .. I guess we can all read into this ...his being a little "hard nosed"..
> 
> ...


Actually I always wanted a better relationship with her.. I found videos to share. Wanted to share books I read. She had little to no interest. She kind of "knew it all", for lack of a better phrase.

I complimented her looks, cooking, etc. 

I was an open book, but she always needed her own "privacy", which did bother me. Her own computer, living on Facebook, etc. This added up and after a while I resented her. I tried to talk to her about this to no avail.

I just mention women, because I have a few male friends going through almost the identical thing at the same time. I read threads on here that seem to be identical. 

But really, some posters are quite annoying here. Since I supported my family, and gave my wife what she said her dream was (raise a child at home), that means I was controlling, not caring, not present etc.

There is no winning.. If she had a child and I asked her to go to work , then I would be cheap/not a good provider/jerk/uncaring..Someone who just cares about money.

At the end of the day, lots of women are flakes..I guess some men might be to, but I am not dating men.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

I just want to say that , when an OP posts the history of his life in few lines and then raise a specific question; he/she is interrested to get help in answering that question; in our specific thread the guy raised a specific question :

"How do people find a woman who views you as a partner, and not the guy who is 100 percent responsible for her happiness? "

He didn't raise it to attack feminism , He is asking for help.

thatbpguy attacked him in post # 6 ; and people (Including me ) drifted the thread from main issue .

To summarize one thing and provide you with an advice from my modeste experience ; You need to first draw the picture of the girl you want :

For example my bro married a model teasing his friends ; the other one believes in partnership and the institution ; so he married a character suitable for him .

it will not be difficult to detect if the picture you have of your Soulmate matches with the new person you meet .

Red flags should never be ignored ...

From what others can't touch ; I can tell that you are very romantic guy .

The most important as others also were telling you , you do not want someone to suck your happiness in order to be happy ; also you don't want to be a happiness sucker .

I strongly advise you to read " Men are from Mars , Women are from Venus " ; 

trust me , this book changes the way you think about a lot of things .

the most important is to be with a Lady who avoid triggering the Dragon in your Cave when you are in ...

If you read the first few pages of the book , you will understand what I mean .


If I were you : fall in Love with a a clone of SimplyAmourous or Kresaera 

*To those who misunderstood my point of view I say :*

A Female to me is a wonderful creature who should not be fighting for equality ; Godess of fertility love and charm.

Venus you are more powerful , more lovely , beautiful and passionate than us ; so please chime in .

I will leave you all now for few days , for a medical reason that hope won't last ...

hope we meet again Simplyamouras , Kresaera never ever change , stay the venusian you are


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> I am recently divorced. Going into my marriage I thought I made a good choice.
> 
> Her parents were married for 50 years. She was a hard worker. Had girlfriends. Did not drink, smoke, never did drugs etc.
> 
> ...


I like this post. The main warning is the strong belief that you can make them happy and clearly if you can make someone happy, then you should do so. However, you cannot make anyone happy long term, both have to work at it. That she relied on you for excitement nad interest rather than finding her own hobbies is revealing as to where she put the responsibility for her happiness. The warning sign is therefore that the prospective partner thinks you are amazing.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> Whenever I read posts like this (I was so very perfect and they were totally unreasonable, blah blah blah) I really wish the other person would come in and explain their side. I'm old enough to know there are ALWAYS 2 sides to every story.
> 
> As to your last question, that's fool's gold. A marriage is a partnership. It takes 2 to make it work and 2 to destroy it.


I always heard it takes two to make a good marriage. If it only takes one person to make a marriage work, that is important news.

To make outrageous assumptions from the OP, it seems she thought he would make her happy and he latched onto that meaning it gve him. The thought that he cannot make someone happy is actually significantly humbling.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> You probably would have gotten less hostility if you didn't bust out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will agree with Zouz. Someone like simplyamroous probably is my best fit, I am romantic, and I didn't start out with the feminism.. But here is more or less my question, rephrased..And I guess it does tie into feminism..

So, when I met my wife, she did express that she feels a child should be raised with the female at home. I agreed. It seems naturally, and biologically, this makes sense to me. I am not breastfeeding, and I am the bread winner.

The problem arises when SAHM has ideas in the back of her head, either from media, friends, college etc that there is some "patriarchy" holding her down, and men will never appreciate what she does. 

As a quick example, if other women know I pay 100% of everything, take care of the yard, fix things, cars, etc they might say "Oh that's great. That's what they both like and agreed to. 

Now if I am home and we are on the couch and I say "Honey, can you make me a sandwich", all of a sudden that is sort of "demeaning". Her friends might say "God, doesn't he have 2 arms.. Can't he do it himself? What is this 1940? Are you his slave?" etc 

But if she did something simple like make the sandwich, that in return wants me to do so much more for her. Makes me far more appreciative. Makes me more romantic . etc

So in my opinion, the above reaction kills all romance. As in my Teddy Roosevelt example, I think it is beautiful Eleanor was doing something for him. And quickly a poster starts talking about stoning women to death in some countries. 

So my question would be how to know if a woman REALLY wants what she asks for. There seems to be a conflict.. One where a woman likes the idea of being a mom, and on the other side is always thinking she might be being taken advantage of for being a woman.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Zouz said:


> To summarize one thing and provide you with an advice from my modeste experience ; You need to first draw the picture of the girl you want :
> 
> For example my bro married a model teasing his friends ; the other one believes in partnership and the institution ; so he married a character suitable for him .
> 
> ...


 couldn't agree more with that.. when we suspect any







's ..... that feeling deep inside that causes us to question..even a little bit... Open it up...TALK ABOUT IT [email protected]#..... talk until you understand each other.. clearly.. and actions lining up with words.. 

I would recommend anyone who is dating/ seeking lasting love.... to get this book.. Intellectual Foreplay: A Book of Questions for Lovers and Lovers-to-Be  ...I did a thread on it  HERE ..... to help discover pretty much everything about each other : beliefs, desires, *expectations,* how we look at *$$*...







... sex.. our futures, modern lifestyle vs Traditional, kids / no kids... it's just THAT important...




> From what others can't touch ; I can tell that you are very romantic guy .


 He doesn't come off as VERY Romantic to me, maybe average .. I think all guys could grow in that.. *but this also depends on HOW he is treated*.. which was basically MY POINT .... her attitude helps this flourish as well as his... 



> The most important as others also were telling you , you do not want someone to suck your happiness in order to be happy ; also you don't want to be a happiness sucker .


 I agree.. all for the "interdependent" model in relationships.. it will always harbor resentment if one feels they are being "taken for granted"..none of us are that sacrificial ..to enjoy that feeling.



> I strongly advise you to read " Men are from Mars , Women are from Venus " ;
> 
> trust me , this book changes the way you think about a lot of things .
> 
> the most important is to be with a Lady who avoid triggering the Dragon in your Cave when you are in ...


 Funny thing about this book.. I bought this many years ago...when I read about the MAN... I was thinking.. "Well jeez, my H isn't like this at all !....it just didn't fit...he was never one who needed a CAVE...I was asking him about this one day, telling him he is odd... he says "If I had a cave, I would want you in it".. Mush mush.. 



> If I were you : fall in Love with a a clone of SimplyAmourous or Kresaera
> 
> *To those who misunderstood my point of view I say :*
> 
> ...


 It's true, he doesn't sound the ogre to me that other women are painting him.. and I don't think I am all that darn naive either...

I* prefer* men who don't care for the feminist model.. every time I read a feminist anything, it stomps things I personally hold dear...whether that be sexual views or feeling women need to RISE UP , UNITE .... we are just as ______ or just as ______. 

I really enjoy the differences between men & Women and what I call that "DANCE" between the sexes...we "complete" each other.. but when we come AT each other trying to compete, it takes something away...I still see our role as more nurturing...and MEN are geared to Protect & Provide.. (if this offends others , it doesn't offend me)...

And I would be JUST AS AGAINST men who abuse women &/or have male chauvinistic attitudes...... but it's gotten so bad....in *some* feminist circles.. just describing yourself as an older fashioned man - you would be looked upon as a misogynist !

I guess, at the end of the day.. it's in how one VIEWS these terms, we need to look deeper.. 

Older fashioned men, those Traditional types...for me, are more the ones who treat women like ladies, who still believes IN marriage, even courting a woman...I count that a good thing.. 

.. but take another woman - and this is what she sees... The real analysis of the old fashioned man ...talk about blackening the term!! 

People are funny.. it's good to really UNDERSTAND where one is coming from.

 Zouz...I don't think I could be anyone else!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

It doesn't seem like you are completely sure about what you want. In some posts you suggest women who are self sufficient, independent and split things 50/50, in others you lean towards the doting SAHW type. 

I'm not sure your age, as a woman who just turned 30 I can tell you that the anti-feminism would be an instant turn off for the vast majority of women my age. (see http://www.buzzfeed.com/kirstenking/sexiest-quotes-ever-spoken-by-men for instant turn ons) 

Unless you are planning for more children it's also unlikely you will find a woman who wants to stay home as a wife for the reasons you are wanting. 

Every time you generalize or stereotype certain groups of women, your pool of options gets smaller. 

The kind of woman you describe are rare, more often than not is a simple equation of needs met vs. needs given. Women and men both are more likely to meet the needs of their partner if they feel theirs are met as well. If you need acts of service to enjoy giving words of affirmation for example then that's what you should look for. It's not a man/woman thing. It's individual and personal. 

First you have to figure out what it is you need. Then you have to find a match that gives you what you need but is also happy and has her needs met by what you are capable of doing. But keep in mind that if your needs are too many and/or you are not capable of providing many you will have less choices.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> I will agree with Zouz. Someone like simplyamroous probably is my best fit, I am romantic, and I didn't start out with the feminism.. But here is more or less my question, rephrased..And I guess it does tie into feminism..
> 
> So, when I met my wife, she did express that she feels a child should be raised with the female at home. I agreed. It seems naturally, and biologically, this makes sense to me. I am not breastfeeding, and I am the bread winner.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if you ever do. I was married to a woman who had constant unrealistic expectations so I can sympathize. In her perfect world all her needs and wants are met first. Her problems were always paramount and mine took a back seat to it. Her thoughts on the house we would have, where it would be, the cars we would have were all nice dreams for someone who were white collar workers but we were both blue collar. I was ok with that and she was not. 

So when she saw a house she liked and I said that is beautiful but something we just can't comfortable afford I was the bad guy. When she wanted an unpractical car, bmw,for where we lived I was cheap. When I asked her not to take a specific job because it was a 45 minute commute into a downtown area with high crime I was controlling. When I had a problem, like one of my friends getting murdered at work, I got about a day to grieve then I needed to "get over it".

Now OF COURSE this was not what I was presented with when dating so people change over time and sometimes for the worse. I think my GF now is the most mature emotionally woman I have ever met. She commented she wanted us in a bigger house. I told her I do to but showed her our finances and how that couldn't work without more money. So no *****ing, moaning or complaining she just decided to restart her side business to make more money toward that goal. That's just one example. So it presents to me that she doesn't have unrealistic expectations. But I once thought that about someone else and was dead wrong so I don't know if thier are any 100% indicators


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I* prefer* men who don't care for the feminist model.. every time I read a feminist anything, it stomps things I personally hold dear...whether that be sexual views or feeling women need to RISE UP , UNITE .... we are just as ______ or just as ______.
> 
> I really enjoy the differences between men & Women and what I call that "DANCE" between the sexes...we "complete" each other.. but when we come AT each other trying to compete, it takes something away...I still see our role as more nurturing...and MEN are geared to Protect & Provide.. (if this offends others , it doesn't offend me)...


Feminists can make the choice to stay home, be the nurturer, have their man open doors and pay for dates. Feminism is the belief that women can CHOOSE that and not have it forced on them. That they are allowed to work if they choose, have equal pay for equal work, that they can vote and press charges if their husbands rapes or hits them. That they can have full access to medical care and birth control if they choose.

Feminism is not about getting all the women out working the man jobs and being 100% the same. It's letting the ones who want to have the *opportunity*. 

By saying you are against feminism isn't saying that YOU want to stay home and have a more traditional female role, it's saying you think every women should be forced to. 

That's all it comes down to. Equal rights, equal opportunities. I know plenty of feminists who want the more traditional homes.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> I'm not sure if you ever do. I was married to a woman who had constant unrealistic expectations so I can sympathize. In her perfect world all her needs and wants are met first. Her problems were always paramount and mine took a back seat to it. Her thoughts on the house we would have, where it would be, the cars we would have were all nice dreams for someone who were white collar workers but we were both blue collar. I was ok with that and she was not.
> 
> So when she saw a house she liked and I said that is beautiful but something we just can't comfortable afford I was the bad guy. When she wanted an unpractical car, bmw,for where we lived I was cheap. When I asked her not to take a specific job because it was a 45 minute commute into a downtown area with high crime I was controlling. When I had a problem, like one of my friends getting murdered at work, I got about a day to grieve then I needed to "get over it".
> 
> Now OF COURSE this was not what I was presented with when dating so people change over time and sometimes for the worse. I think my GF now is the most mature emotionally woman I have ever met. She commented she wanted us in a bigger house. I told her I do to but showed her our finances and how that couldn't work without more money. So no *****ing, moaning or complaining she just decided to restart her side business to make more money toward that goal. That's just one example. So it presents to me that she doesn't have unrealistic expectations. But I once thought that about someone else and was dead wrong so I don't know if thier are any 100% indicators


This is true, and a problem.. What to do when people change?

My wife was the most simple woman when I met her.. No brand name clothing, happy listening to her iPod, looking at the clouds etc. Within a couple years it was about brand names,designer bags, jewelry, vacations, needing a nanny, what kind of car etc. I didn't buy her a ring on Christmas she wanted as it was too expensive, and she ruined our sons first real Christmas by not talking to me..


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Feminists can make the choice to stay home, be the nurturer, have their man open doors and pay for dates. Feminism is the belief that women can CHOOSE that and not have it forced on them. That they are allowed to work if they choose, have equal pay for equal work, that they can vote and press charges if their husbands rapes or hits them. That they can have full access to medical care and birth control if they choose.
> 
> Feminism is not about getting all the women out working the man jobs and being 100% the same. It's letting the ones who want to have the *opportunity*.
> 
> ...



It puts a rift between men and women. It would be like if I called myself a "manist", and complained that men died in all the wars, men die several years earlier on avg, men had to do dangerous jobs while women sit home with kids etc etc. If this was ingrained in me, I would be walking around never being able to trust a woman.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> It puts a rift between men and women. *It would be like if I called myself a "manist", and complained that men died in all the wars, men die several years earlier on avg, men had to do dangerous jobs while women sit home with kids etc etc.* If this was ingrained in me, I would be walking around never being able to trust a woman.


Well if you were a feminist you would believe that men and women should have equal opportunity to either join the military or sit at home and raise children. The reason they were at home was because that was "their place". They didn't have the choice. 

Feminism does help men too. There's only a rift if you make it one.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Feminists can make the choice to stay home, be the nurturer, have their man open doors and pay for dates. Feminism is the belief that women can CHOOSE that and not have it forced on them. That they are allowed to work if they choose, have equal pay for equal work, that they can vote and press charges if their husbands rapes or hits them. That they can have full access to medical care and birth control if they choose.
> 
> Feminism is not about getting all the women out working the man jobs and being 100% the same. It's letting the ones who want to have the *opportunity*.
> 
> ...


You are surely assuming more than should be here.. just because I don't care to lable myself a so called feminist... by no means = I feel women should be FORCED ...

Oh No SlowlyGoingCrazy, you don't get me at all... I am all for CHOICE, Democracy, FREEDOM OF RELIGION, I greatly understand we all want different things, I treasure living in the United states BECAUSE of this beautiful freedom.... all of it.. would march in the streets for it too!... Not against abortion either! Though I would frown on the women who use it like birth control & think this is just fine & dandy... 

And I would heartily agree with EVERY POINT YOU LAID OUT here..absolutely!! ...when you are speaking bare bones feminism..it was a Needed movement but men fought for it also;... just as white people also fought for the freedom of slaves...

It's the radicals who have disgraced the term.. so you agree with some of the stuff the radicals spit out..you don't think some go TOO FAR? it taints the word.. I guess I feel those within should be rising up to condemn those who go too far.. that's my beef..(I don't happen to see it enough for my satisfaction being a more conservative type women).. what I do see is plenty of put downs to the sort of lifestyle I enjoy...also my sexual views being mocked. 

I used to be a christian...for example.. and many , when they hear this TERM, conjure up "hypocrites" in their minds.. do you ? Many have disgraced the term.. but that surely doesn't mean they are all LIKE THAT.. there is good & bad in any "ISM"... I just don't get off on calling myself one.. 

I seen your new thread asking -- Good for you :smthumbup: ....exploring how others feel on it... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/233401-feminism-misunderstood.html

Samyeagar summed it up very well for me ...



> *samyeagar said*: *They often do not reflect the majority view of the movement, but because their behavior is so extreme, they are the ones who get the attention, and the movement becomes attached to the behaviors and views of the extremists,* *with the end result of lowering the credibility of the movement and group*.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Well if you were a feminist you would believe that men and women should have equal opportunity to either join the military or sit at home and raise children. The reason they were at home was because that was "their place". They didn't have the choice.
> 
> Feminism does help men too. There's only a rift if you make it one.


In theory this is good, and I have no problem with women wanting to do typical male jobs, if they can and want to. 

I don't know of many women who would want to work 20 hours straight in a steel mill today for pennies, so I am thinking it was probably the same 100 years ago. But that's what feminism does. It teaches women that they were "held down", but ignores the facts, that at that time there weren't a lot of office jobs. 

I have an ex girlfriend i recently talked to, and she has a masters degree.. She now has the feminist type mindset.. However, she has lived rent free for the past ten years with an older male friend that feels sorry for her.. She never has a job, but always has men take her on vacations.. When I ask her why she doesn't pay half, she said "men make more money for the same work!" When I ask if she cooks or cleans for her various boyfriends, this leads to "What! this isn't 1950"

In real life application, it leads to a lot of laziness and an attitude of entitlement.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> This is true, and a problem.. What to do when people change?
> 
> My wife was the most simple woman when I met her.. No brand name clothing, happy listening to her iPod, looking at the clouds etc. Within a couple years it was about brand names,designer bags, jewelry, vacations, needing a nanny, what kind of car etc. I didn't buy her a ring on Christmas she wanted as it was too expensive, and she ruined our sons first real Christmas by not talking to me..


is it possible she married for money?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> In theory this is good, and I have no problem with women wanting to do typical male jobs, if they can and want to.
> 
> I don't know of many women who would want to work 20 hours straight in a steel mill today for pennies, so I am thinking it was probably the same 100 years ago. But that's what feminism does. It teaches women that they were "held down", but ignores the facts, that at that time there weren't a lot of office jobs.
> 
> ...


It looks to me that you are really surrounded by entitled people of both sexes. Maybe you should start looking out in the more real world out there? The people you describing in your posts ar foreign to me.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> is it possible she married for money?


When we met i didn't have much.. 

She didn't have a car for over a year and a half. And was happy.. Actually happy. Once I made a lot more, she then became obsessed with material items.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> It's the radicals who have disgraced the term.. so you agree with some of the stuff the radicals spit out..you don't think some go TOO FAR? it taints the word.. I guess I feel those within should be rising up to condemn those who go too far.. that's my beef..(I don't happen to see it enough for my satisfaction being a more conservative type women).. what I do see is plenty of put downs to the sort of lifestyle I enjoy...also my sexual views being mocked.


That's why I said I wish there was a different word for the radicals. 

IMO lumping feminists together with the few radicals is just like people condemning you for your traditional roles because _some _couples take it to a too far extreme. Neither is productive. 

If someone believes in equal rights and opportunities for women and men, they are a feminist. So it sounds like you are too


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

We were sitting around the kitchen table a few months ago, just talking as a family how/what/why life is the way it is...

My 17 yr old boy asked who would actually take him seriously enough to marry one day. I told him a flippant answer, he's not allowed to get married until he's 35.

What surprised us all, is the reaction my 13 yr old daughter chimed in with. She said she'll never get married, never have babies. I went on to say, you're young, that can change as you get older.

She said, "No Mom, you don't get it. I'll never let a man tell me who I should be. Dad says to get good grades in school because I'M A GIRL AND I HAVE TO WORKER HARDER THAN BOYS. He pushes me BECAUSE I'm a girl. I get good grades because that's what "I" want. Not you or anybody else will tell me what I can and cannot do."

She's 13.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> That's why I said I wish there was a different word for the radicals.
> 
> IMO lumping feminists together with the few radicals is just like people condemning you for your traditional roles because _some _couples take it to a too far extreme. Neither is productive.
> 
> If someone believes in equal rights and opportunities for women and men, they are a feminist. So it sounds like you are too


I still have no desire to call myself a feminist, in fact if I did , others would want to kick me out of their group because I ENJOY many articles that speak against feminism, if I must be so honest..(those radicals again)... but I will call myself an Egalitarian...I find it less offensive and less likely to cause division... 

I support equal opportunities / representation of genders. I oppose discrimination ...I would not support sexism or anything that could reasonably be described as the denigration of one gender by another.

Yet I feel we have differences which need to be mutually understood & respected..that we have far more in common by virtue of our shared humanity & this should be celebrated.

Going by the dictionary definition ... 
*feminism * = “*doctrine or movement that advocates equal rights for women*.”

The same dictionary also gives the following definition of an *egalitarian:* “*a person who believes that all people should be equal.*”

These 2 positions may not appear to be all that different. Seems almost the same...so why aren't more women adopting this label then...since they disagree with the radicals anyway ?? 

Now some may feel "Egalitarians are against traditional gender roles.”..so I have read that.. goodness.. I guess I have an easier time trying to defend an Eglitarian mindset over a feminist mindset.. 

There was a thread here once... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/27713-why-i-love-men.html Oh I loved what she said, I so resonated... then lo & behold... a few pages in... you could see the claws of some of self proclaimed feminists..so proud of their independence basically attacking this original poster.. it just put a very sour taste in my mouth.. it just seems we can't praise men TOO LOUDLY , even if they are good Men, good husbands...

If more women would praise men, recognize them for all the good they Do..and more men would PRAISE women.. wouldn't we all be better off ?? *It would encourage us all*..... but of course.... we all need to start with ourselves ...so something is worthy to be praised.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

there is so much projection in this thread it is amazing. 

I with SA on this, the OP isn't perfect, but based on the evidence given, his ex has issues. I have seen these same types of issues in many/most women under 40. They feel they are entitled to it all. Maybe men are this way, too, but I don't see it. It is the sense of entitlement - I will be a SAHM, I want $/bling/vacations/a nanny/ the H to do all the housework while I shop/socialize/party. This didn't exist a generation ago, where did it come from?


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

naiveonedave said:


> there is so much projection in this thread it is amazing.
> 
> I with SA on this, the OP isn't perfect, but based on the evidence given, his ex has issues. I have seen these same types of issues in many/most women under 40. They feel they are entitled to it all. Maybe men are this way, too, but I don't see it. It is the sense of entitlement - I will be a SAHM, I want $/bling/vacations/a nanny/ the H to do all the housework while I shop/socialize/party. This didn't exist a generation ago, where did it come from?


Thank you. Read revamped last post. Her 13 yr old daughter already views men as bad and controlling. Where does that come from if not from this "feminism" I am speaking of. Marriage is some form of oppression. 

No matter who she married that man will already be a mean controlling person to watch out for. It's sad. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Red Sonja said:


> Females like the above exist; I was one and knew many others like me. From my teens until I got married (at 30) I loved being single and working. Sure, I (almost) always had a boyfriend or was dating someone however my happiness came from building my career and pursuing my own interests and hobbies (usually with friends along).
> 
> The key is to look for a partner who already has a full and happy life and then add to that life. Don’t look for someone who “needs you”; don’t look for someone to “rescue”.


:iagree:

I'll just add that this philosophy has something to offer for you too, OP. happiness is acheivable without a spouse - single can be happy. i think its always useful for someone like you who was, more or less, made single later in life despite your wishes - to not pursue the next partner as if your life depended on it. Date and socialize definitely, but work to transform yourself - if need be - into that kind of person that can find all sorts of opportunities and joys in life aside from a serious or marriage-type relationship. It can be done and I agree that it makes you more desirable in pretty much every regard.


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> This is true, and a problem.. What to do when people change?
> 
> My wife was the most simple woman when I met her.. No brand name clothing, happy listening to her iPod, looking at the clouds etc. Within a couple years it was about brand names,designer bags, jewelry, vacations, needing a nanny, what kind of car etc. I didn't buy her a ring on Christmas she wanted as it was too expensive, and she ruined our sons first real Christmas by not talking to me..


Marriedman this is truly awful, I'm not sure if she did a bait and switch or if she had outside influences that changed the person she portrait, in either case to act like a bltch because she didn't get the gift she wanted is truly appalling. 

I cant even imagine being so ungrateful on of all days Christmas.

Once I had my first child @ 23, Christmas was only about family, I could care less about gifts. Seeing my sons amazement with wrapping paper was all the gift I needed. 

I don't think your asking for to much, your OP just seemed a bit harsh toward woman who don't/cant follow the stereotypical 1950 , "perfect wife".  

I didn't have the luxury of being offered to stay home with my children and if given the opportunity I'm sure I would have made a great SAHM/wife as I keep a clean house now with all meals and laundry done, however being young with no money I had to compromise and do what was best for my family. 

If your able to afford your wife staying home that is wonderful, I think where you lost me was, once you got home you sounded as if you should not have to do anything around the house and that your wife should have everything done and be available for all of your needs. i.e.. get me a drink! 

To me when one gets home from a Job/Career both parents need to pull together to get stuff done so the evening is theirs as a couple. 

I do believe your wife was caught up with princess syndrome and your resentment probably made you sound like a jerk.


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> In theory this is good, and I have no problem with women wanting to do typical male jobs, if they can and want to.
> 
> I don't know of many women who would want to work 20 hours straight in a steel mill today for pennies, so I am thinking it was probably the same 100 years ago. But that's what feminism does. It teaches women that they were "held down", but ignores the facts, that at that time there weren't a lot of office jobs.
> 
> ...


She sounds like a real catch, I would say I feel bad for the men she takes advantage of but they must be getting something out of it or they would not put up with her poor behavior , she is what gives woman a bad name.

There is a happy medium on all of this, the extreme feminist and these princess types have given a bad name to woman who want to be treated fair.

My mother in-law did physical labor jobs in the 40's when the men were at war and there were no men, I'm sure you have heard of “Rosie the Riveter". 

I personally see nothing wrong with gender reversal as long as everyone agrees to it and the family unit is happy.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

learning to love myself said:


> Marriedman this is truly awful, I'm not sure if she did a bait and switch or if she had outside influences that changed the person she portrait, in either case to act like a bltch because she didn't get the gift she wanted is truly appalling.
> 
> I cant even imagine being so ungrateful on of all days Christmas.
> 
> ...


Let me give an example. My ex wife started taking solo vacations and left me with our son. 

I had to pay a baby sitter. 

I would come home at 4-5 pm. Every toy put away. Child was clean. Smiling. He had dinner. Kitchen clean. 

Now why, why , why on earth couldn't my wife, or any wife accomplish that if a 22 yr old girl can?

I don't understand why I should come home To a messy house, toys all over, stress, kid not fed etc. 

So yes. Resentment would build when as soon as I walk in I have to put away his toys. Feed him. Clean. Etc. 

I don't have a chip on my shoulder for being a male. So, if my wife was working, you better believe I would be able to hand her a drink when she walked in. Not really that hard. Takes all of 10 seconds?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> Let me give an example. My ex wife started taking solo vacations and left me with our son.
> 
> I had to pay a baby sitter.
> 
> ...


and to add to that a few days I did come home early. What was going on ? Kid was napping and she was napping. She was watching a romantic movie. She was shopping online. 
Chatting on facebook. 

That's more or less the reason why I had to work all day and then come home to work more. Not because there was so much work to so she needed help with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> I don't have a chip on my shoulder for being a male. So, if my wife was working, you better believe I would be able to hand her a drink when she walked in. Not really that hard. Takes all of 10 seconds?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You do realize this is a covert contract, you getting mad at her for not doing something without really knowing?


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

naiveonedave said:


> You do realize this is a covert contract, you getting mad at her for not doing something without really knowing?


Just a random example someone else used. I wasn't literally mad for he not grabbing me a drink. Just pointing out if I was at home I would have no issue pampering my wife when she came home from work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> Let me give an example. My ex wife started taking solo vacations and left me with our son.
> 
> I had to pay a baby sitter.
> 
> ...


Wow she sounds just like a few woman I used to know. I do not and will not associate with these type of people as they are no friend of a marriage. 

To me these people are like watching a horrid reality show of real housewives and the drama will always be there.

You will get past the poison that she instilled and find a wonderful woman, were not all like that, just like not all man are jerks.

For yourself and your son, please work on you, teach him the values on being a good human being. It may take awhile but there will be a day were your wife will have a dose of reality and you will have found a soul mate while she sits and wonders what happened to her life.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> Thank you. Read revamped last post. Her 13 yr old daughter already views men as bad and controlling. Where does that come from if not from this "feminism" I am speaking of. Marriage is some form of oppression.
> 
> No matter who she married that man will already be a mean controlling person to watch out for. It's sad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, it will be for her... You are misintrepreting what her dad told her. She not only must work full time, but clean house, pick up babies and cater to her husband. You don't think she shouldn't look forward to that?

Look, you have a three year old boy yourself. He'll know and understand his parents are divorced. He'll see his mom work full time and come home to take care of him. He'll see that's what you do as well.

But as he grows up, he'll come to expect that role out of the girls he dates. He may not think it's femininst to do both jobs.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

thatbpguy said:


> As to your last question, that's fool's gold. A marriage is a partnership. It takes 2 to make it work and* 2 to destroy it*.


I take issue with that last comment.

I'm pretty sure that there are lots of marriage destroyers who do it all by themselves.

There can be issues and conflicts in marriage, but a marriage destroyer, such as cheating, is one-sided.


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## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Revamped said:


> Well, it will be for her... You are misintrepreting what her dad told her. She not only must work full time, but clean house, pick up babies and cater to her husband. You don't think she shouldn't look forward to that?
> 
> Look, you have a three year old boy yourself. He'll know and understand his parents are divorced. He'll see his mom work full time and come home to take care of him. He'll see that's what you do as well.
> 
> But as he grows up, he'll come to expect that role out of the girls he dates. He may not think it's femininst to do both jobs.


Some women have really really easy lives. In fact many I know. Even poor ones with a poor hubby. It isn't all so bad. 
In fact I don't even know one woman who does all of that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> You probably would have gotten less hostility if you didn't bust out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:iagree:

OP not all women are *****
(i.e. my usual word that I recommend betrayed husbands address their WW by for at least a year, then afterwards not address them at all), as you discovered your wife was. in fact I believe that's why BH should divorce their cheating wives pronto, because there are always better women out there, in every age range. Which is why messing around with "Reconcilliation" justs delays your quest to find a good one. sounds like you were spared that pain, at least. be thankful you are free of her...not trapped


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