# I can't believe I'm here...a long tale of woe



## Meatpuppet (Jan 2, 2012)

It's really a sad commentary on modern society that you can google "my wife said she loves me but isn't in love with me" and get about a billion hits. At the top of the list was a thread from this forum...so here I am. 

I took some time to read through a bunch of threads before I reg'd and posted, and I gotta say it's both comforting and terrifying that so many of your situations are exactly like mine. I really need some clarity. I apologize, this is kind of a long story, so if you have some time, coffee and maybe a cigarette or two, I'd really appreciate if ya read it 

My wife and I have been married for 6 years. When we met, she was honest, hardworking, but above all - she was...wholesome. You know guys...the kind of girl who radiates that innocence that makes you think she'd never do anything to ever hurt you. However, she eventually slipped into a depression that she couldn't shake. This, plus the fact that she'd been lying to me compulsively for the last 6 years is what might do us in. 

We're both teachers (actually, I still am, she's not. Read on to find out why) in a very rough school district, so needless to say work was a major stressor on both of us. Being a guy, I had a much easier time getting kids in line, but she had a very rough time dealing with our "clientele". She'd come home distraught and exhausted - everyone I work with does! - but it really took its toll on her. She hated her job and despised getting up every morning. I encouraged and helped her as best I could. Little did I know, this job was eating away at her little by little. On top of the rotten kids, some administrators, for political reasons I won't go into - decided to pick on her. Our last principal was a total sadist. He'd belittle her teaching, and when she started crying in his office, he sent her on a mandatory psychological exam to see if she was fit to teach. That completely devastated her. She was a really great teacher and most kids loved her. This kind of thing happened to literally dozens of teachers at my district, so it wasn't just her. That wasn't much comfort though. Her confidence was totally shot after that. 


Now to be a teacher in my state, you have to get a masters degree within 4 years of getting hired. She began hers, but never finished. She lied to me for months, telling me it was done and all she had to do was meet with her thesis advisor and that was that. Just before the beginning of the 5th year, she told me that she's resigning from teaching because she didn't finish her thesis. Well, there's BIG LIE #1. After my initial shock, I agreed it was best for her and told her I totally forgave her for lying to me. 

At this point, she started seeing a therapist. She went through four of them, started and quit anti-depressants, and finally settled on one that she felt she was making good progress with. She is still seeing this same therapist today. 

After trying unsuccessfully to get tutoring jobs that don't require certification, she finally settled on being a dispatcher for a small fuel company (only 2 minutes from where we used to work, incidentally). We looked at our finances and figured that we'd just squeak by and be able to keep our house. We both agreed that the office job would be an OK temporary position until she finished her thesis and could get back in the classroom. All was well for about a year...until the eviction notice came. We called a laywer, and my wife insisted that she "take the lead" in the situation. Like a damned fool, I trusted her. Two weeks later, she said the lawyer called the mortgage company and it was all a big misunderstanding. 

Slowly, ever since resigning from teaching, I noticed her getting more and more distant. I asked her literally hundreds of times "babe, what's wrong?" and the inevitable reply was "oh nothin, I'm just tired." That's not to say we didn't have good times - they were just getting fewer and farther between. Add to that the fact that our sex life was almost non-existent, and you have a husband wondering if his wife is sneaking around. Mind you I had no evidence at all (she actually said on many many occasions she HATES cheaters) and her boss was a degenerate pot-smoking troll, so I just chalked it up to paranoia. Still, I couldn't shake the feeling. 

Finally one night she called after working late saying she was coming home. She said she was going to stop off at McDonalds to grab some food and she'd be right home. It took her almost two hours to get back from a trip that should've taken about 40 minutes. When she came in, I was upset, asking where she was. She got counter-upset, saying the line was huge and there was traffic. I told her I wanted to see the receipt so I could check the time, which led her to storm upstairs. I didn't speak to her for the whole next day. I'm sorry to say that's one of my many faults: I do the silent treatment routine when I feel I've been wronged. Even though she was almost certainly telling me the truth about why she was late, I still had that pall of paranoia around me that she'd been with someone. 

That Friday, I planned a make-up date - good old movies and dinner, which we both love more than anything. I called her at work asking what she wanted to see, and she said casually that she was going upstate to see her friend. The friend in question, mind you, is an absolute idiot who hasn't been in a meaningful relationship for more than two hours. They got into fights all the time, and when they did, my wife would tell me all the sh-t things she'd say about me. For example, there were a few times when my wife would make dinner and I just wouldn't wake up from a nap. My wife got angry that I did this occasionally, and she told me her friend said we should get a divorce. It was actually something we'd joke about! 

As for her impromptu trip, I was taken aback, but agreed, not wanting to make her more angry. 

She spent the entire weekend there...and didn't come back Sunday. I texted her at 2am on Sunday night asking where she was. She said she was tired on the way home and decided to sleep at her parents'. 

That Monday, she called me and said she thinks we should spend some time apart. She revealed - FINALLY revealed - that she wasn't happy for a long time. I was as shocked as I was devastated; I had no idea she'd been so unhappy with our marriage. But I reluctantly agreed. 

Well, the decision to split was made much easier by the fact that the eviction I thought was taken care of months before hadn't been at all. Here comes BIG LIE #2: I came to find out she hadn't been paying our mortgage...for almost a year. Yes, I know I'm an idiot for trusting her to handle it, but what was done was done. 

After an angry, tearful exchange, I forgave her (again) and we sobbed in each others arms. The move turned out to be easy, as I just moved a few feet next door to my neighbor's apartment, and she moved back home. We both parted with the agreement that we'd work on ourselves and our marriage - but we both swore that we'd make a commitment to get back on track. 

The split was last February. Since March, we slowly reconnected and became romantic. Sex still wasn't as frequent as I would've liked, but still, I thought we were going in the right direction. For a good 9 months, it seemed like we were back to our old selves. We exchanged "I loved yous" all the time, started going to a gym, dates every weekend with her spending the nights at my place. 

Which brings us to this Christmas...

We had a really great holiday. We did all our traditional things, with me going to her parents' house for the Eve and my parents' house the day. We had a fantastic time, and there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever that things were going south. 

Again, sorry for being so damned long-winded.  Almost done!

That brings us to this Wednesday. We were supposed to go to a party at a friend's house, and when the day came, I called her at work to see if she'd meet me there or if she wanted to come to my place first. She said "oh, today is Wednesday? I thought it was Thursday." Immediately I got a twinge of panic - she works as a dispatcher for oil deliveries...she HAS to know what day it is. On top of that, her brother's b-day dinner was that Thursday, so she couldn't have had it in her head that she was both going to the party AND her brother's b-day...she would've just said she couldn't go when we got the invite. 

This is where the sh-t hits the fan...

I say I'm sick of the lies and ask her to please, please tell me the truth. Let me say that since our separation, she'd said many, many times she wants to move back in - we'd even started looking at places on the internet. However, recently, she suggested that we maybe wait 6 months because she doesn't want to move out in the winter. At the time it seemed reasonable, but now, after catching her in this lie, it seemed that her suggestion to postpone moving in was just a ploy to buy more time in the separation. That, coupled with the newest lie I caught her in, made me press her for answers. She eventually admitted she loves me but she's not in love with me. She said that she was afraid to move back in because things might just go back to the way they were. BIG LIE #3: How is it, HOW CAN IT POSSIBLY BE, that for 10 months...after thousands of "I love yous" and romantic moments she says this?! 

I started to do exactly what I shouldn't at that point (wish I read this forum sooner) I begged and pleaded, asked her what her life would be like without "us," etc. I brought up counseling and she said "well, you could go." I was beside myself. 

We eventually agreed to continue talking the next day (it was late and she had work in the morning). She promised she'd call after she got home. 

She never did. 

I texted her, asking what was wrong. Nothing. Then I broke down and called. We talked a little more and agreed to meet after she got off work the next day - new year's eve eve. I spent the whole rest of that night writing her a sonnet (yea, I said a freakin sonnet...they're damned hard to write!) that I was literally crying over after writing the last line. I sent her the sonnet with some flowers to her work. I thought (foolishly, in retrospect) that this gesture might "soften things up" for our meeting. 

I'll give ya one guess what happened. She didn't call. 

She texted later on saying she had to go to her parents' house for dinner with her cousin and her husband. At that point I'd had enough. I drove to her house, gave her back the ring and said goodbye to her parents. All of them seemed stunned (including her cousin and her husband ).


The next day I went to the bank and opened a separate checking account and moved some money over. Then I did another probably dumb thing. 

I went into her emails (she'd given me the pw a few weeks before to check an email for her). I found a folder entitled "friends" and in it were several letters to the idiot friend of hers she'd visited that fateful weekend. These things go back to Jan 2007...SIX MONTHS into our marriage. In it, she detailed her unhappiness with her job, her depression, and her problems with me. I guess I should say now there were times when I could've been more attentive - less video games, that sort of thing. But she said in this letter, again 6 months into our marriage, that she didn't like married life and she was worried about herself. She said in several places throughout these letters that she loved me with all her heart, but that getting married might've been a mistake and that she misses home. I should note that she and her mom have a very - dare I say somewhat freakishly - close relationship. Even though I married a very hardworking, independent girl, she was really coddled by her parents. In many ways, I think emotionally she's still very much a girl; she had this idealized fantasy of marriage and when it didn't go according to plan, she just wanted out. She even mentioned in her letters that our wedding day was fading in her mind and it killed her - which seems to me that marriage was all about the "day of it" and not the "rest of it."

In the emails, she also chalked up her unwillingness to finish her masters to her depression - if I can armchair psychologize for a sec, I believe it was just a subconscious way of not having to go back to a job she hated. Completely understandable. She also said that the depression left her crippled when it came to our finances. I have to admit I'm terrible with money, whereas she was a bill-juggling genius when I first met her; she had A+ credit and was a great budgeter. I should've been more involved than I was with the financial side of things, but again, I trusted her.

She also said in one email sex was a chore, and she was running out of ways to deny my advances (that one cut me really really fkng deep). 

Again, I had literally NO IDEA things were that bad so early on. We had our ups and downs, but overall, the first years of our marriage were great. All a testament to how deceitful people can be, I suppose. She never told me A THING about how she was really feeling ("oh nothing, I'm tired", remember? ). We laughed and had many, many good times in the years right up until she couldn't hide her depression anymore.

Well, I told her two days ago that I read those emails. I justified it by saying I had literally NOTHING to go on, and I needed answers. Understandably, she got rather mad, saying she doesn't even remember writing them or what was in them. I calmly suggested she read them again. She said she was and basically hung up on me, sobbing. 

Immediately after that convo, I sent her an email apologizing again, stressing the fact that I'd never, ever in a million years consider doing that unless I was desperate for answers (there was nothing in there that suggested an affair, btw. Not proof it didn't happen, but it was somewhat reassuring). I finished the email by saying (again, perhaps foolishly) that I was still in love with her, and that I wished to God she'd told ME all those things instead of her friend. A friend, incidentally, she STOPPED TALKING TO months ago because she finally realized she was a crazy, self-absorbed ***** who was never really a friend to her at all. 

Shortly after that, I got text from her saying she was sorry for getting angry at me, and that she understood why I did what I did. She promised to call me and write me a letter which (finally) explained her feelings. 

It's been almost 24 hours since that text. I'm firmly resolved not to contact her until (or unless) she makes the first move. 

I feel strongly there's still something there. One of her emails was to a Pit Bull rescue foundation - a dog we both love - and she wanted to know if she could get one before Christmas so she could surprise me! That was only a few weeks ago! How does someone resolve to get their spouse a dog and then only weeks later tell them they're out of love with them when NOTHING EVER HAPPENED TO CAUSE IT? :scratchhead:

Despite the nearly 6 years of lies, I still would do anything to have her back. I know that our problems are entirely fixable, but our marriage was like a car we had the keys to, but neither knew how to drive. After what she did to me, my family and friends would kill me if I went back, but hey...I made a vow, and I intend to do whatever it takes to honor it...even if she hasn't. 

There's my tale...any words of advice, encouragement, or admonishment would be greatly appreciated


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## armywife0520 (Aug 29, 2011)

I read the whole thing (which ill admit I typically wouldn't do) and I am floored by your commitment. 
"I made a vow, and I intend to do whatever it takes to honor it...even if she hasn't." 
You are the first person I've heard say that and I say that to everyone I discuss my marriage with. It is so nice to see another person so devoted to their vows. I think you are doing the right thing. I am very confused (as I'm sure you are) by your wife's behavior. She just seems completely confused and lost and one of those people who are never truly happy or satisfied.. BUT anything is possible. I think you are doing an amazing thing by sticking by her. Through what you've said I really have no idea if she has been unfaithful or not but I really pray for your sake that is not the case.. as that is what I have been dealing with in my marriage and it is torture. What we do have in common in the constant lying and selfishness. That's really what it comes down to. Finding someone who has the same mindset of marriage as you and it really sucks to find out when you're already in this marriage that you thought you were on the same level and you're not. I know I'm probably babbling. Just wanted to say I really appreciated your story and I give you a world of props for doing what you are doing. Stick with it. God bless


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## Meatpuppet (Jan 2, 2012)

tyvm for the kind comments, AW...I'll keep you posted as things unfold...

By the way, I posted this topic in the wrong forum...no longer "Considering", now I'm "Going Through"


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Meatpuppet,
I read every word of your post (I charge $40 for every half hour of my time, so pay up  )

First of all, depression is a real thing as I am sure you know. It changes people significantly and makes them think and do things that they wouldn't normally do. Your wife has definitely is dealing with some depression. I hope she is getting help for that.

In working on the marriage, you need to find a balance. You should NOT completely smother her with texts, voicemails, etc. She needs some space.

You should also not completely ignore her as you have made vows (which you are courageously keeping).

When she commits to doing something (like writing her a letter), graciously ask when she thinks she might complete that task and then allow her the time to do so. When she doesn't complete the task on time, then you can contact her, otherwise, trust her to complete what she said she would do (I know you have no reason to trust her given the history, but that is something she still needs).


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It does sound like depression is a lot of the problem. A new marriage can be a hard thing in that it's not what people sometimes expect. Add her job problems to it and it's a recipie for disaster.

I hope she comes through and you both can get beyond this. If you do, hopefully the two of you will have learned the importance of actually telling each other about your feelings.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

At times your gut has told you she might be cheating. There are many redflags indicating she might be. Even depression leads many people to cheat.

You should check her phone records to see if there is a lot of texts or phone calls to particular numbers you do not know.

The ILUBNILWU speech is the most damnig of all.


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## Meatpuppet (Jan 2, 2012)

My therapist said she might've given me the ILUBIDLU line because she just couldn't handle the relationship anymore - ie: she lied...again. But all her lies are said out of desperation/defense because she's too emotionally damaged/ill-equipped to deal with facing or admitting the truth. 

She also said that line is basically BS, and I agree. When people say that, it either means..

a) they don't love you anymore and are afraid to say it

or

b) they still love you, but don't want to be committed to you anymore 

I'm tending toward b as it relates to my situation, because all signs pointed to us doing really well before I caught her in that lie and pressed for the truth: she loves me but is afraid to that moving back in would lead to the same outcome as before. Her need to please me vs. protect herself is probably killing her. 


I haven't ruled out infidelity yet, but based on my therapy session, it seems she's much more broken emotionally than I ever thought possible. 

I visited my D lawyer for the first time yesterday, and he suggested we send the "hey, I'm representing your H, can you please call smiley-face!" letter as opposed to serving her with a summons. She still hasn't called/emailed me, so I'm hoping this will spur her into some kind of action.

I'm still hopeful, but we have a very long road ahead of us. 

Will advise :smthumbup:


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.

Thanks for everything! 

__________________


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## Meatpuppet (Jan 2, 2012)

I said it somewhere else in this forum, but yeah... the sad irony is that it takes losing or almost losing someone to make you realize how you can be a better person. 

@Chap, I copy-pasted that list into my documents. I'll probably copy it into my phone. Especially the letting go parts. So true.

My mood's been rollercoastering for the last week, and your post just sent me on a little upswing. 

Thanks, brah :smthumbup:


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You're more than welcome. Good luck


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