# New here and suffering



## Nieve

I have been married for 20 years. The last 10 years have pretty much sexless and lacked
communication. Something/someone happened about 10 years ago. I had a feeling
she was seeing someone else about 10 years ago but never spoke up -never had solid proof.

Background:
Absolutely no intimacy or sex for 6 years
About 5 years ago she stopped wearing her wedding ring( said it was to small and never
wanted to take the time to re fit).
We sleep in separate beds
New perfume about 1 1/2 ago (rarely wore around me)
about 3 years ago she got into facebook and social media big time
Very protective of her phone and often seemed anxious and quickly changed screens when I approached
In addition to the above
About 2 years ago, I had a very strong "gut feeling" she was at it again. This time I decided to
secretly investigate and be more observant of her actions and treatment towards me.
I found that she now shaved her pubic hair
She had thong panties buried deep in her drawer (she said she never would wear)
I found thick black pubic hairs in her dirty panties-my wife is dishwater blonde, a few months later
I then found huge semen stain in her panties (I had a sample tested at a prof lab and it is semen)
and then found another semen stain a few weeks later.

I knew I did not have the perfect proof of the her affair but I just could not take it any longer 
so I confronted her. I told her "I know about your affair". She first had stunned look and and couple seconds the she told me I was crazy, she would never do that.... Then she gets pissed started asking for the proof and who do I think it is...
I told her I was ashamed of how, but I found proof in her dirty panties. I told her over the last few months,
3 different times I found black pubic hair and semen stains in her dirty panties and I don't 
see any other explanation. I immediately told her I had it prof tested and she did not argue that part.
There was a few seconds of silence and then she said "Did ever think that Janet(our 20 year old daughter
who lives with her boyfriend) borrowed my panties on her period?" 
I almost blew up, but I stayed calm and said, "No, that possibility never crossed my mind, but I guess it's possible".
Then she started screaming and got overly angry and went off again about how she would never do that to me, I swear on the Bible our kids lives whatever you want me to swear on...." It got really intense for a couple minutes-and I got sick to my stomach (I guess I'm a wimp) and I just said "Okay I believe you, I believe you!" I acted ashamed and went downstairs to sulk. About 20 minutes later she comes down stairs and sees me hanging my head. She says "it's alright, lets go outside and get high and let this go". 
She started acting normal.
The problem is; I love her and for some reason I want to believe her. I am one of those husbands
that just can't believe the person I know could do this. 
Also, I have not been a perfect husband(away a lot-work, volunteer work, traveling ball, dart league, golf outings...). However, I am a good father, my kids know my love and I never missed kids events, and coached and volunteered often. I never cheated on my wife even when tempted

I have not told a soul of my life the last few years, so I have no objective input or advice available to me.

I am asking this community for some objective advice, considering the context and my evidence and
my wife's response and reaction to my confronting her. 
Thank you


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## ccpowerslave

There is an easy answer just ask your daughter if that’s your wife’s explanation. It sounds like a load (pun not intended) of BS if you ask me.

I mean if you had 100% proof (not needed IMO) what would you do differently?


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## Numb26

You don't always need definite proof. If your gut is telling you something, listen.


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## Sfort

It's too bad you didn't post here before you confronted her. You would have been advised to be ready with, "Well, since you're denying the affair, I've scheduled a polygraph for Friday at 3 PM."


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## GusPolinski

Nieve said:


> I have been married for 20 years. The last 10 years have pretty much sexless and lacked
> communication. Something/someone happened about 10 years ago. I had a feeling
> she was seeing someone else about 10 years ago but never spoke up -never had solid proof.
> 
> Background:
> Absolutely no intimacy or sex for 6 years
> About 5 years ago she stopped wearing her wedding ring( said it was to small and never
> wanted to take the time to re fit).
> We sleep in separate beds
> New perfume about 1 1/2 ago (rarely wore around me)
> about 3 years ago she got into facebook and social media big time
> Very protective of her phone and often seemed anxious and quickly changed screens when I approached
> In addition to the above
> About 2 years ago, I had a very strong "gut feeling" she was at it again. This time I decided to
> secretly investigate and be more observant of her actions and treatment towards me.
> I found that she now shaved her pubic hair
> She had thong panties buried deep in her drawer (she said she never would wear)
> I found thick black pubic hairs in her dirty panties-my wife is dishwater blonde, a few months later
> I then found huge semen stain in her panties (I had a sample tested at a prof lab and it is semen)
> and then found another semen stain a few weeks later.
> 
> I knew I did not have the perfect proof of the her affair but I just could not take it any longer
> so I confronted her. I told her "I know about your affair". She first had stunned look and and couple seconds the she told me I was crazy, she would never do that.... Then she gets pissed started asking for the proof and who do I think it is...
> I told her I was ashamed of how, but I found proof in her dirty panties. I told her over the last few months,
> 3 different times I found black pubic hair and semen stains in her dirty panties and I don't
> see any other explanation. I immediately told her I had it prof tested and she did not argue that part.
> There was a few seconds of silence and then she said "Did ever think that Janet(our 20 year old daughter
> who lives with her boyfriend) borrowed my panties on her period?"
> I almost blew up, but I stayed calm and said, "No, that possibility never crossed my mind, but I guess it's possible".
> Then she started screaming and got overly angry and went off again about how she would never do that to me, I swear on the Bible our kids lives whatever you want me to swear on...." It got really intense for a couple minutes-and I got sick to my stomach (I guess I'm a wimp) and I just said "Okay I believe you, I believe you!" I acted ashamed and went downstairs to sulk. About 20 minutes later she comes down stairs and sees me hanging my head. She says "it's alright, lets go outside and get high and let this go".
> She started acting normal.
> The problem is; I love her and for some reason I want to believe her. I am one of those husbands
> that just can't believe the person I know could do this.
> Also, I have not been a perfect husband(away a lot-work, volunteer work, traveling ball, dart league, golf outings...). However, I am a good father, my kids know my love and I never missed kids events, and coached and volunteered often. I never cheated on my wife even when tempted
> 
> I have not told a soul of my life the last few years, so I have no objective input or advice available to me.
> 
> I am asking this community for some objective advice, considering the context and my evidence and
> my wife's response and reaction to my confronting her.
> Thank you


She’s lying.

Divorce.


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## Diana7

Firstly your daughter doesn't live with you so how could she borrow the underwear. Secondly no one surely borrows someone else's underwear especially a teenage girl borrowing their mothers😲 . Mad explanation.

So many red flags. I would say 99% she is cheating. Put a VAR in the car. Ask her to take a polygraph. Hire a private detective.


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## Marc878

You are the big problem. Standing around flat footed. You don’t have a marriage. End it.


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## Migi

Is it really possible for your daughter to borrow mom’s panties and return them dirty, full of semen? If I had borrowed someone's pants, I would have returned them clean, washed.
Where does she live?


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## Marc878

You cant be this naive. So with living in denial you don’t have to make a decision. Look what that’s gotten you.
Sorry man but with your lack of any actions you’ve made yourself a chump. No one can do that but you.

All cheaters lie a lot. Talk and words = nothing.


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## Lostinthought61

Look if it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s probably not a f ing geese. Go with your gut and file or suck it up and accept that she is blowing smoke up your butt...or at least ask her to take a polygraph


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## jjj858

You didn’t have definitive proof? The panties are definitive proof some guy has been letting it fly in your wife. This marriage is over. Don’t let her sweet talk you. Man up and divorce her.


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## Nieve

Marc878 said:


> You cant be this naive. So with living in denial you don’t have to make a decision. Look what that’s gotten you.
> Sorry man but with your lack of any actions you’ve made yourself a chump. No one can do that but you.
> 
> All cheaters lie a lot. Talk and words = nothing.


I appreciate your honesty.
Hard to hear but I know you are right, I am the definition of chump. I thought I if could put up with this
I could keep my family together for a few years while the kids were young it would be worth
it. And I always hoped she may want me again and I might be able to forgive her. I think it may have been worth for the kids sake. However, for me I feel I have wasted 10 years and I have lost self worth. I will be back and will be rebuilding my life and my self esteem. I plan to file and then confront her again to see if I can find out who she has been with. I doubt she cracks, but I would like to know who she was cheating with, I think eventually it will all come out though. A lot of people are going to be surprised that she cheated.


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## ElwoodPDowd

Why didn't you just ask to see her phone?


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## DudeInProgress

ElwoodPDowd said:


> Why didn't you just ask to see her phone?


Not ask, tell her that you need to see her phone. It’s not a request, it’s a condition of maybe continuing the marriage. And if she chooses not to comply, there are consequences.

Not that it really matters at this point. She has already betrayed you and has no respect or desire for you - so just find the strength and dignity to file papers and have her served.


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## Marc878

Nieve said:


> I appreciate your honesty.
> Hard to hear but I know you are right, I am the definition of chump. I thought I if could put up with this
> I could keep my family together for a few years while the kids were young it would be worth
> it. And I always hoped she may want me again and I might be able to forgive her. I think it may have been worth for the kids sake. However, for me I feel I have wasted 10 years and I have lost self worth. I will be back and will be rebuilding my life and my self esteem. I plan to file and then confront her again to see if I can find out who she has been with. I doubt she cracks, but I would like to know who she was cheating with, I think eventually it will all come out though. A lot of people are going to be surprised that she cheated.


First off download and read “No More Mr Nice Guy” by glover. It’s a free pdf and short.

Being a martyr in these situations gets you nothing plus your kids will learn most from you. What did you teach them? It’s ok to be disrespected? Then they grow up and don’t appreciate you sacrificing yourself.

A quick easy check is go online and check your phone bill. Her boyfriends number will probably be there.
You only need enough proof for you. Getting proof for what? All you’re gonna do is waste more time and life that you’ll never get back. Why bother confronting? All you’ll get will be lies. Plus she knows she’s cheating. You are probably conflict avoidant so what’s that gonna get you? I’d bet a lot more know she’s a cheater than you think. I doubt it’s that big of a secret. It usually isn’t.

I Suspect you’ve set back all this time because you really didn’t want to know so you didn’t have to make a decision. You like many have wasted years living on hopium. You can’t fix her. Nor was this your fault but if you don’t fix yourself you will remain her chump because you’ve allowed it.

If it were me I’d meet up with three good attorneys and pick one. If not you’ll still be living in your hopium dream of her waking up. However, when a woman loses respect it’s over permanently. She doesn’t love you and worse has no respect for you.

If you really must find out who she’s having sex with get serious and hire a good Private Investigator. Stop setting around being a chump and doing nothing.

Your life is what you make it. No one else.


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## Marc878

Strength is attractive. Weakness is the opposite. Cheaters like your wife are a dime a dozen. A lot are serial cheaters. They never stop. 

It’s too late to try and salvage this. Fix yourself for your next relationship. You don’t want to go through this again. Stay out of the hopium addiction. It will get you nothing.


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## Marc878

Nieve said:


> I have been married for 20 years. The last 10 years have pretty much sexless and lacked
> communication. Something/someone happened about 10 years ago. I had a feeling
> she was seeing someone else about 10 years ago but never spoke up -never had solid proof.
> *Almost no one gets solid proof and you don’t need it. Only enough for you.*
> 
> Background:
> Absolutely no intimacy or sex for 6 years
> About 5 years ago she stopped wearing her wedding ring( said it was to small and never
> wanted to take the time to re fit).
> We sleep in separate beds
> New perfume about 1 1/2 ago (rarely wore around me)
> about 3 years ago she got into facebook and social media big time
> Very protective of her phone and often seemed anxious and quickly changed screens when I approached
> In addition to the above
> About 2 years ago, I had a very strong "gut feeling" she was at it again. This time I decided to
> secretly investigate and be more observant of her actions and treatment towards me.
> I found that she now shaved her pubic hair
> She had thong panties buried deep in her drawer (she said she never would wear)
> I found thick black pubic hairs in her dirty panties-my wife is dishwater blonde, a few months later
> I then found huge semen stain in her panties (I had a sample tested at a prof lab and it is semen)
> and then found another semen stain a few weeks later.
> *All the proof you needed. All you got was ******** and lies. *
> 
> I knew I did not have the perfect proof of the her affair but I just could not take it any longer
> so I confronted her. I told her "I know about your affair". She first had stunned look and and couple seconds the she told me I was crazy, she would never do that.... Then she gets pissed started asking for the proof and who do I think it is...
> I told her I was ashamed of how, but I found proof in her dirty panties. I told her over the last few months,
> 3 different times I found black pubic hair and semen stains in her dirty panties and I don't
> see any other explanation. I immediately told her I had it prof tested and she did not argue that part.
> There was a few seconds of silence and then she said "Did ever think that Janet(our 20 year old daughter
> who lives with her boyfriend) borrowed my panties on her period?"
> I almost blew up, but I stayed calm and said, "No, that possibility never crossed my mind, but I guess it's possible".
> *Just BS and lies. *
> 
> Then she started screaming and got overly angry and went off again about how she would never do that to me, I swear on the Bible our kids lives whatever you want me to swear on...." It got really intense for a couple minutes-and I got sick to my stomach (I guess I'm a wimp) and I just said "Okay I believe you, I believe you!" I acted ashamed and went downstairs to sulk. About 20 minutes later she comes down stairs and sees me hanging my head. She says "it's alright, lets go outside and get high and let this go".
> She started acting normal.
> *Her plan worked. She’s got you whipped. Hell man you could catch her in the act and it wouldn’t do you any good. Do you really thing she’s going to wake up and be your wife? *
> 
> 
> The problem is; I love her and for some reason I want to believe her. I am one of those husbands
> that just can't believe the person I know could do this.
> Also, I have not been a perfect husband(away a lot-work, volunteer work, traveling ball, dart league, golf outings...). However, I am a good father, my kids know my love and I never missed kids events, and coached and volunteered often. I never cheated on my wife even when tempted
> *What do you love? The sexless marriage, her cheating? What?*
> I have not told a soul of my life the last few years, so I have no objective input or advice available to me.
> *Common sense is all you need. Cmon!!!!*
> I am asking this community for some objective advice, considering the context and my evidence and
> my wife's response and reaction to my confronting her.
> Thank you


Advice is worthless unless you use it.
Talk and words in these situations gets you nothing. Only your actions will count for much.


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## Marc878

There is a misconception around infidelity. If I catch them and have proof they’ll become the perfect wife!!! Nope, you’ve already caught her and she brow beat you so bad you apologized for catching her cheating.

Next up even if you had a smoking gun which most never get she’ll turn it around and blame you for making her cheat.

*Blame-shifting* is when a person does something wrong or inappropriate, and then dumps the blame on someone else to avoid taking responsibility for their own behavior.

You should not be ashamed of her cheating. That’s 100% on her. You should be concerned on why you’ve lived with this **** so long.
I hope you wake up. You need to.

The other thing is she’s not having sex with you because she doesn’t want to cheat on her current boyfriend. Sorry man but this happens all the time. You only know the tip of the iceberg. Don’t be surprised at who all know including your kids.


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## Marc878

Be very careful around her. False domestic violence claims get filed all the time.

Oh, she’d never do that to me! Famous last words. You can’t trust her at all!


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## Nieve

Marc878 said:


> Be very careful around her. False domestic violence claims get filed all the time.
> 
> Oh, she’d never do that to me! Famous last words. You can’t trust her at all!


I finally talked to an old friend, he gave the name of his attorney that is well known.
He is completing the divorce paperwork-will be done mid next week for me to sign
and have her served. Very expensive.
I did put VAR in her car and heard her talking to her mom- she definitely does not
love me and is telling her mom that I said things things I did not say and tells things
way out of context. Of course, her mom does not know about her affairs and is very supportive.

I am very angry and want to make her and her lover suffer; I want to out her on social
media or mass text- I want revenge right now but I know it is wrong and I should 
just let it go and forgive her later sometime. I do have all her friend family and co workers
mobile numbers. 
Not sure I should harm her like that?? I might wait until she is served or divorce is final.


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## Al_Bundy

Nieve said:


> I finally talked to an old friend, he gave the name of his attorney that is well known.
> He is completing the divorce paperwork-will be done mid next week for me to sign
> and have her served. Very expensive.
> I did put VAR in her car and heard her talking to her mom- she definitely does not
> love me and is telling her mom that I said things things I did not say and tells things
> way out of context. Of course, her mom does not know about her affairs and is very supportive.
> 
> I am very angry and want to make her and her lover suffer; I want to out her on social
> media or mass text- I want revenge right now but I know it is wrong and I should
> just let it go and forgive her later sometime. I do have all her friend family and co workers
> mobile numbers.
> Not sure I should harm her like that?? I might wait until she is served or divorce is final.


Good on you moving forward with the divorce. Until it's final, stay off social, keep records of all interactions with her and if possible speak to her as little as possible. Through your attorney would be great. She's going to play the victim role loudly and very publicly. Trust me that your best revenge will be living a better life. Start taking care of yourself, make you the priority. Refocus your attention on you and becoming a better version of yourself so that a year or two down the road you'll be better off in every way. 

Best of luck.


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## Diana7

Nieve said:


> I finally talked to an old friend, he gave the name of his attorney that is well known.
> He is completing the divorce paperwork-will be done mid next week for me to sign
> and have her served. Very expensive.
> I did put VAR in her car and heard her talking to her mom- she definitely does not
> love me and is telling her mom that I said things things I did not say and tells things
> way out of context. Of course, her mom does not know about her affairs and is very supportive.
> 
> I am very angry and want to make her and her lover suffer; I want to out her on social
> media or mass text- I want revenge right now but I know it is wrong and I should
> just let it go and forgive her later sometime. I do have all her friend family and co workers
> mobile numbers.
> Not sure I should harm her like that?? I might wait until she is served or divorce is final.


Don't let what she did make you into a person you aren't and don't want to be. Taking vengeance isn't going to help you and you may well regret the things you did later. As you say, let her go. Go forwards.


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## ElwoodPDowd

Nieve said:


> am very angry and want to make her and her lover suffer; I want to out her on social
> media or mass text- I want revenge right now but I know it is wrong and I should
> just let it go and forgive her later sometime. I do have all her friend family and co workers
> mobile numbers.


Don't do it.
Dating a younger, more attractive and nicer woman is always the way to get revenge.
Revenge is living a better life without her.

Women enjoy the anger and conflict of divorce.
Better to just ignore her, she is irrelevant to your future.
No angry words, no conflict, no displays of emotion from you.


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## Marc878

If you know who her other man you should inform his wife if hes married. After you get the divorce papers signed.

Shes been cheating and I’m not sure why you are hung up on not hurting her by telling the truth. She’s got no problem hurting you does she? You teach people how they can treat you. Consequences are a good thing.

I wouldn’t confront her. Hell, she knows she’s a cheater. However, I would put the truth out there afterwards.

Stop being a doormat or you may end up in the same position again.

Download and read “No More Mr Nice Guy” by glover it’s a free pdf and short. You don’t fix this you maybe doomed for a repeat.

All the advice in the world will not do you any good if you don’t apply it.

No contact is your only good path. Better fully wake up.


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## manowar

ElwoodPDowd said:


> *"A man in love is incomplete until he is married. Then he is finished.” Z.Gabor. *


So true for so many. Id swear that this quote is taken right out of the Predatory Female by Rev Shannon. have you read that book Elwood.


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## Evinrude58

You’ve been with a woman for ten years while she has been cheating. Vengeance on her? Hell yes! But do it with cold, calculating, legal, and inhuman cruelty. Because, sir, this is what she has been treating you as — subhuman.
Sorry it’s taken you ten years to get some balls but it is what it is. I hope you keep your resolve and are somehow able to crush her in divorce. Your wife is a proverbial serpent of a woman. Get angry . You’re 9 years and 364 days overdue.


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## Marc878

What’s wrong with consequences for someone who is doing you harm? I get the timing but rolling over and taking it like a doormat? What’s that gonna get you? If you let people treat you like crap. Expect to get more of it.

IMO forgiveness means you get to a point they don’t matter anymore.

If her boyfriend is married his wife should be your first contact.


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## chazmataz33

Kids? How is revenge going to affect your relationship with them?


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## Nieve

Reviewing my first draft of divorce agreement and parental agreement from my
attorney. I live in a no-fault state, so my cheating wife is able take me to the cleaners.
Half of my business, retirement.....Wow what a crooked process!
On my attorneys advice, I will not be embarrassing her in public. He said he has
seen it backfire so many times- they lose their job, family is no longer willing to help...
meaning she will need more support- costing me even more money. He also recommends
not blind siding her by having her served at work or in front of my children, instead I should
calmly explain how things are-getting a divorce, it will save us both a lot of money if we can agree
on some major stuff-alimony, asset distribution.. I don't have a problem paying
a lot of child support and private high school and college. I know what we are proposing
is more than fair. Maybe she will be smart and take offer and we can move on- there
is a chance, so I will try. 
FYI: I have good idea who her boyfriend was(I think they stopped seeing each other the 
week I confronted her?) but no video. I can find out, if I want to spend more money-
DNA testing(I have samples of his semen and pubic hair that I found in her dirty panties), 
and VAR ., and hire a PI.
I don't know for sure so I cannot accuse him(boyfriend) or talk to his wife.
There is a clause in parental agreement saying we cannot demean each other in
harmful way- to protect our children. Youngest is 17 and her mom is her besty,
and admires her but I'm not sure I should keep the reason for our divorce from our
kids and family forever. After the dust settles, I will give her a chance to tell the kids
and her family first before I tell everyone. I want to unleash now but can't.
The more I read my Bible(I got away from reading), the more I want let her go and let 
God handle her soul.
I am reading No More Mr Nice Guy, as recommended here.


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## Evinrude58

The no demeaning you to the kids clause. Total waste of time. Unenforceable. You gonna spend the money to take her to court in that? Not trying to rile you. But I’ve been there and all that crap that is spelled out in the divorce/— if it’s not things that are easily proven.... useless.
Get ready and accept getting the shaft.
From my experience, it is NEVER wise to make a “more than fair” offer, because her attorney is ALWAYS gonna try for more even if you promised her heaven.

I realoy hate this for you.


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## Marc878

^^^^^ yep. Fair only.

Sounds like a Mr Nice guy. If I give her more she maybe amicable.

Sorry bud but any good deed you do will not go unpunished.


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## Marc878

Lying to your kids is a real bad idea. Tell em the truth in a sanitized way.
Obviously you are not finished with No More Mr Nice Guy. It won’t do you any good if you don’t apply it.


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## Marc878

Nieve said:


> FYI: I have good idea who her boyfriend was(I think they stopped seeing each other the
> week I confronted her?) but no video. I can find out, if I want to spend more money-
> DNA testing(I have samples of his semen and pubic hair that I found in her dirty panties),
> and VAR ., and hire a PI.
> I don't know for sure so I cannot accuse him(boyfriend) or talk to his wife.
> *There is a clause in parental agreement saying we cannot demean each other in
> harmful way- to protect our children. *Youngest is 17 and her mom is her besty,
> and admires her but I'm not sure I should keep the reason for our divorce from our
> kids and family forever. After the dust settles, *I will give her a chance to tell the kids
> and her family first before I tell everyone.* I want to unleash now but can't.
> The more I read my Bible(I got away from reading), the more I want let her go and let
> God handle her soul.
> I am reading No More Mr Nice Guy, as recommended here.


Lying to your kids is protecting them? Nope. Sounds like she’s had a lot of input in writing this up. I hope you don’t live to regret it. Oh and cheaters lie a lot. She’s never gonna tell anyone the truth.


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## Nieve

Not going to lie to my children, not sure how I you got that message.
I will tell them after the dust settles (after the divorce is final).
ACTING nice in this negotiation/situation could save me a fortune.


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## Marc878

Nieve said:


> Not going to lie to my children, not sure how I you got that message.
> I will tell them after the dust settles (after the divorce is final).
> ACTING nice in this negotiation/situation could save me a fortune.


I got you. I really do. It sucks to have to bite your tongue. I’m not particularly good at it 😎
There’s nothing wrong with following through afterwards.


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## ElwoodPDowd

Evinrude58 said:


> The no demeaning you to the kids clause. Total waste of time. Unenforceable. You gonna spend the money to take her to court in that? Not trying to rile you. But I’ve been there and all that crap that is spelled out in the divorce/— if it’s not things that are easily proven.... useless.
> Get ready and accept getting the shaft.
> From my experience, it is NEVER wise to make a “more than fair” offer, because her attorney is ALWAYS gonna try for more even if you promised her heaven.
> 
> I realoy hate this for you.


I agree, 
you offer as little as possible, because she will always ask for more.
and the 'bad mouthing to the kids', she'll do that because nobody will stop her, but you'd better not because they will stop you. Her teaching your kids to hate you is inevitable, they fight for 100% custody, then tell the kids you abandoned them.


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