# I need help with sustaining my marriage



## picpea (Apr 17, 2017)

I sincerely apologize if this is the wrong area. I looked at the different areas and honestly just didn't know where I belonged. Sex and physical intimacy are our largest struggles so this area seemed the most fitting. 

I'm 28 and my husband is 31. We have been together for 8 years and married for 6. I feel like my husband is on the verge of walking away from me, our marriage and our life together. It is something that I desperately want to avoid. I don't want to lose my husband... 

Our biggest problem is our sex life. One year into our relationship I had a trauma (physical, sexual) that wreak havoc on our relationship. It turned our relationship upside down and everything that we once knew was blown to smithereens. My husband is a good man, he always has been and I don't want my words to be twisted and make him out to be the bad guy. The only bad guy in our situation is not being written about. We were in our early 20's and only a year into a relationship, he could have chosen to walk away. In hindsight, I know he wishes he had. He didn't. He stayed by my side and always has. We both thought, that with enough time and enough work things could get back to how they previously were. Neither of us, especially my husband, thought we would be _here_.

My husband and I have very little physical intimacy because I cannot handle it. There are so many parts of my body that he cannot touch at all. There are parts of my body that he doesn't want to touch, or look at. Any sexual intimacy is forced by myself. I have to force myself to do certain things, for my husband/my marriage, and it always ends poorly. Intercourse is almost impossible because I tense up so badly. I try and do other things for him until I get to the point that I physically cannot continue. 

My husband has always been there for me. 4 months ago, when we hit an all time low, I told my husband that we could open the marriage if he wanted. We have a set of rules that has to be followed, I have to trust him to follow them. It has been excruciatingly hard for me, but I need to do it for my husband and my marriage. We don't talk about when/if he utilizes that privilege, I don't want to know. Even though he hasn't said anything I know he has opened that door, that I allowed him to open. Sometimes he will come home late and shower immediately. He has pulled back from me and it feels like there is a wall being built between us. 

I know that I'm not who he wanted to marry. I want to make it up to him and sustain our marriage. Two days ago we got into a fight and he almost laid a hand on me. He didn't, he was very close but held himself back. He made a fist and wound his arm back, stopped himself, then almost pushed me, then stopped himself again and left the house for the rest of the night. He apologized, profusely. I'm 5'2 and 105lb, my husband is 6'2 and 220lb. If he wanted to hurt me he could. He wouldn't, unless I drive him to it. I have told my husband to force the physical intimacy but that has done nothing but harm. 

Our marriage is crumbling and I don't know how to save it... Any help would be appreciated... If I could pick up a magic eraser and erase physical and sexual intimacy from our marriage it would be picture perfect. Alas, such magic eraser has yet to exist... I apologize if this in incoherent... I am quite upset typing this. My husband is sitting right next to me but it feels like we are a million miles apart as brick by brick, the indestructible wall slowly builds.


----------



## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

Sorry, OP. You don't mention counseling/therapy... has that not been tried ?


----------



## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

You need professional help. No one here can help you, we don't even know what happened and doubt we will. On that note, not every marriage deserves to be saved. Don't be selfish and really ask yourself of this is a sham of a marriage and both of you need to start over.


----------



## picpea (Apr 17, 2017)

*Married-Man: *I have been in personal/individual therapy for 7 years. My husband has gone off and on. We have gone to marriage therapy and sex therapy on and off as well. I'm sorry that I didn't mention that, I suppose I thought it went without saying. I don't have a clear mind right now. Yes, therapy has been (and is being) utilized. Though I suppose rather unsuccessfully. 

*GuyInColorado: *I don't know how important specific details are to this... I understand that it is the cause, but the specifics I don't know if they really need to be shared. I've shared them with very few people. My marriage might be different, but it is not a sham... I understand that no one here can give me the magic answer to solve all my problems... I just want to do something to help my husband and save our marriage...


----------



## shrah25 (Mar 22, 2017)

picpea said:


> I sincerely apologize if this is the wrong area. I looked at the different areas and honestly just didn't know where I belonged. Sex and physical intimacy are our largest struggles so this area seemed the most fitting.
> 
> I'm 28 and my husband is 31. We have been together for 8 years and married for 6. I feel like my husband is on the verge of walking away from me, our marriage and our life together. It is something that I desperately want to avoid. I don't want to lose my husband...
> 
> ...


Hi @picpea

Thanks for your message.

I'm really sorry that you're going through what you are. It's a really tricky situation that you're in.

Now, reading behind the lines, i'm assuming that there was some sort of sexual assault or rape that occurred and for that, i'm truly sorry (assuming i'm correct).

In terms of your marriage and sexual intimacy, is it something that you desire at all? What about sex causes you to tense up? Is it the physical pain or some emotional scarring of some sort that is forcing you to pull back?

If you could clarify some of those points, then I can provide you with further guidance.

Thanks


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Assuming that there are no children borne of this marriage, and given that professional counseling has failed miserably, the relationship has denigrated largely into the two of you living like a pair of platonic college roommates!

If that lifestyle is what you indeed want out of life, then so be it! Otherwise, I would highly recommend an immediate separation and your visiting a good family attorney in advising you of your property rights and to file for divorce on the grounds of "irreconcilable differences!"

Notwithstanding, you have a rather long road ahead of you because whether you file for divorce or not, you will have to sustain keeping yourself in individual counseling until such time that you can willingly enter upon a relationship with another person! 

I wish you nothing but the best!*


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

If you love him, are you holding on for him? Or you? Is sounds like you're not ready to be a wife so soon after your trauma. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

How about EMDR?

Assuming this is rape, I so sorry for you. I know someone this happened to. It is terrible. Have you gone to any support groups?


----------



## picpea (Apr 17, 2017)

*shrah25:* I'm having a hard time writing a response to your post and finding the line between what I want to say and what I don't want to say. I want to be intimate with my husband, sexually, physically and otherwise. We don't have a problem with emotional intimacy. I do want to be intimate with my husband and I push myself to be. I try to just do it but it is never smooth sailing. Even when I try with every ounce of my being to do something with/for my husband it's not enough or enjoyable for him. Understandably. No normal person would enjoy being intimate with someone who responds the way I do. 

The reason for tensing up is physical and emotional. Physically my body reacts to touch by instantly wanting to move away from it. I went from being a person who loved touch and craved touch all the time, to repelling it like opposite ends of a magnet. Simply holding hands use to be difficult to force myself to do. Physically some acts hurt because I have permanent physical trauma in my genitals and there is no repairing it structurally. Which adds a self-conscious aspect. I have reminders on other parts of my body and my husband avoids touching and looking at those areas like the plague. Every day I have to be mindful of certain parts of my body and keep them covered. Because of the pain and physical memories of being touched and the pain of being touched I tense up when intercourse has any likelihood. To the point of insertion being impossible or very uncomfortable for my husband. The pain of forcing insertion adds to the physical pain. It's an endless circle that results in a very unhappy husband who explains our sex life like making a fist and trying to push a finger in and out of it. 

I do other things for him. Poorly, but I try. He gets frustrated and calls it quits, especially lately since opening to door to the marriage. The only way we have "successfully" had intercourse start to finish is by me telling him to force it and maybe I will get use to it. He weighs double what I do, he can stop me from pushing him away if he wants to. It isn't enjoyable for him, though.

I want to be able to be with my husband and enjoy it. I want to be able to make him happy in every way and be enough for him. It seems impossible... Everything I try backfires. 

*arbitrator: *We don't have children. Not for lack of wanting them. My husband and I have only had start to finish sex a handful of times so it hasn't been in the cards... I suppose hypothetically being childless should make it easier to let my husband go. It doesn't feel like it. My husband has said many times that he feels like we are living as roommates. I don't want him to feel that way... I have tried to have him force things until I'm use to them but that hasn't gotten us anywhere, but here. If my husband decides to divorce me I don't think I deserve anything. His time, his affection, his love, his life, were wasted on me. I don't want to be at the point of needing lawyers... 

*WorkingOnMe:* I know that when my husband dreamt of marrying he didn't envision me and this. I know that I really love him, and I feel like if I were less selfish I would end it and let him go. He is sitting on the fence and I could blow him off with a whisper. The part of me that loves him, or maybe it's the selfish part, doesn't want to let him go. I can't imagine not being with him, he is who I saw the rest of my life with. I want to be everything that he wants and needs because he is that for me. I want him by my side for the rest of my life, not beside someone else's side. I know there are probably millions of women who are better suited to him than I am. As a contrast, if he doesn't want to be with me no one is going to and I rot away. 

*sokillme:* I have gone through EMDR sessions. It helped definitely, but there wasn't significant relief. The therapist I was working with at the time said a small number of people don't respond as well to it. Apparently I'm one of the "lucky" ones. 

The _thought_ of being in an open space with a group of people being vulnerable gives me anxiety attacks. I have never gone to physical support groups because the 3 times that I have gone I was a mess and drew attention from everyone. My husband has gone to some for spouses on many occasions.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

> *sokillme:* I have gone through EMDR sessions. It helped definitely, but there wasn't significant relief. The therapist I was working with at the time said a small number of people don't respond as well to it. Apparently I'm one of the "lucky" ones.
> 
> The _thought_ of being in an open space with a group of people being vulnerable gives me anxiety attacks. I have never gone to physical support groups because the 3 times that I have gone I was a mess and drew attention from everyone. My husband has gone to some for spouses on many occasions.


There are online groups for this kind of thing. Maybe someone will give you some techniques to help you. I am SO sorry for you and your husband. Have you contacted specialist dealing with sexual abuse? 

Have you tried to do it daily for a prolonged period of time. Maybe not worrying about the outcome? Does your husband get frustrated? Does it effect his ability? Meaning he loses his erection when he sees you are suffering? 

There are A-sexual men out there you know, so don't give up all hope.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

So sorry for what you are going thru. I am putting any blame on you what soever. 

I think you should separate from your H and work on taking care of you, to make you whole again. 

As much as your H is understanding, he is not a saint. He has wants and needs. He does not want to force this on you because in the end what does that make him be? 

He is trying to work with you and that is changing him. When you told him to go outside of the marriage, you have made him into a cheater. Even if you gave him permission, he is probably not the kind of man to do this. You are forcing him into a position he might not have wanted to be. Thereby, changing the basis of who he is. He will do it for you, to remove the pressure of sex from you. But what does it do to him.

That's is why I am saying to leave your marriage and work on you. After working on you and you are healed, then, you can approach another sexually relationship. 

Have an honest conversation with your H. With no expectations to resolve this issue but to find out how he feels and put out your feelings for him to see.

I wish you luck and happiness.


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

I should say I am not blaming you. Can't seem to edit after posting.


----------



## picpea (Apr 17, 2017)

*sokillme:* I haven't participated in any online groups, maybe that is something that I need to look into. If it could help with something, anything, I'd do it. My husband has been sleeping on the couch lately and doesn't seem to have any desire to stop that. Last night I asked him when he was going to come to bed and he jokingly-ish responded with never. I don't know how much of a joke that was... I have seen two specialists who focus on sexual abuse, one was definitely better than the other. We moved across the country and I had to stop seeing the better one, which didn't help at all. Now we live in a smaller city and there isn't as many options available. My husband doesn't think there is any point to find a better therapist and move closer. He's in the _didn't work before, won't work now_ mindset. 

The outcome has always been to have a better relationship with my husband. Maybe it would be different if we hadn't been together at the time when the trauma happened. I have wanted to improve for myself to, of course. To feel comfortable with my husband, to be able to do things with him that I want to do, to be able to go to the grocery store without issues. A lot of aspects in my life didn't improve significantly until I got a service dog who was trained specifically for me. My husband doesn't really like dogs and complains about him being in the way. He's a poodle so he doesn't shed much, but any hair on my husband's clothing and he complains about it. My dog really helps me though and my therapist worked with his trainer to make sure he was perfect for me. He watches me for signs of an anxiety attack coming on and can often stop it. He knows that certain people make me more nervous than others, usually spots them before I do and guides me in a different direction or stands in front of me. He does deep pressure therapy if I am having an anxiety or panic attack and it helps it end much faster. He knows when he needs to use forward momentum to pull me forward and keep walking and I can use him to push my bodyweight into if I'm having trouble breathing or getting up. He helps me a lot... 

My husband gets frustrated with our intimacy. If we avoid it he gets frustrated because we have no physical intimacy and he wants to be with his wife. If we try he gets frustrated because it rarely is successful. To be honest I think the few times we have had start to finish sex he used viagra. Most of the time we try anything he can't maintain an erection, usually he ends up somewhere in the middle of being totally soft and having an erection. He gets frustrated with himself and me because I can't relax, or the rare time that it starts going well and I ruin it. I thought letting him have those needs met somewhere else would take some of the pressure off and maybe it would get better for us. All that has changed is he is less interested and more distant. I want to be intimate with him and enjoy it... I thought maybe if he had those needs already met he wouldn't need a good time as much and he could avoid some frustration. 

*brooklynAnn:* My husband is a really good man. I think that is obvious or he wouldn't have stuck around this long. He has never cheated on anyone, he had never had one night stands, he had never got anywhere close to hitting a woman, he never would have dreamed of "forcing" sex. I feel like I am ruining a really good man. There have been times that I have told him to not stop even if I say to stop. It messes with his head... I don't want to ruin him for someone else...

I don't want to have to walk away from him... I know that if I were single I could probably work on myself a little bit more but I really don't think it gets any better for me... He is my husband, who I love and trust, and I can't improve for him. I know he would be happier with someone else and that should make this an easy decision but it doesn't. I love him, I want him to be happy and have everything that he wants in life, but it being with someone else really hurts to think about. 

I don't want to make a decision for him. He has chosen to stay this long. I do need to talk to him and see where he stands... That is a scary thought because it could be the last conversation we have as a married couple.


----------



## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

Sounds like another version of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Some guys coming back from Viet Nam and Iraq were a mess. Others just let it go as best they could and went on with their life. I always wonder what it was that made the difference between the two groups. Then it dawned on me. Some guys were a mess BEFORE they went into the stressful places. It just broke those who were already damaged.


----------



## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

There are drugs trials to help with PTSD. You should look into getting into them until you find something that works for you. Medical marijuana. MDMA. Do not give up the fight.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I am very sorry for what happened to you. 

I wonder if its possible you are trying too hard and in the wrong way. You are (if I understand correctly) the victim of sexual violence and you are trying to force intimacy. You have even asked your husband to essentially rape you (you've told him not to stop even if you tell him to when its going on).

Do you think there are parts of your body he doesn't want to look at or touch, or is he picking up on how you feel about them?

Why are you not the person he wanted to marry? Are you just talking about your trauma or was there some reason earlier?

I am very concerned that he got so angry he almost hit you. I'm not convinced he is the saint you think he is. My wife has no trauma, but simply rarely wants sex, and is extremely limited in what she will do (including no intercourse). I'm unhappy, but I haven't needed to get sex outside of the marriage, I haven't gotten so angry that I wanted to hit her. I've had no desire to force her. If she had been assaulted, all my concern would be for her. 

Back to the top, have you tried gentle non-sexual intimacy? I'm not a therapist, but I would have thought that the way to go would be a lot of non threatening, non sexual contact with your husband. Start with simple things like sitting close together watching TV. Stroking your hair, gentle kisses. No sexual activity at all for quite a while, just get comfortable with each other. (or if there are sexual things you are COMPLETELY comfortable doing for him, thats OK too, 

He can live without sex for a while - a lot of us do without any sort of trauma in our partner's pasts. Or if he can't, then he really is not the right person for you. 

I know its been a long time, but I wonder if your attempts to force yourself to have sex are just reinforcing the trauma. 

Again, I'm not a therapist so I may not understand the best approach.









picpea said:


> snip
> 
> There are parts of my body that he doesn't want to touch, or look at. Any sexual intimacy is forced by myself. I have to force myself to do certain things, for my husband/my marriage, and it always ends poorly. Intercourse is almost impossible because I tense up so badly. I try and do other things for him until I get to the point that I physically cannot continue.
> 
> ...


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

picpea said:


> *sokillme:* I haven't participated in any online groups, maybe that is something that I need to look into. If it could help with something, anything, I'd do it. My husband has been sleeping on the couch lately and doesn't seem to have any desire to stop that. Last night I asked him when he was going to come to bed and he jokingly-ish responded with never. I don't know how much of a joke that was... I have seen two specialists who focus on sexual abuse, one was definitely better than the other. We moved across the country and I had to stop seeing the better one, which didn't help at all. Now we live in a smaller city and there isn't as many options available. My husband doesn't think there is any point to find a better therapist and move closer. He's in the _didn't work before, won't work now_ mindset.
> 
> The outcome has always been to have a better relationship with my husband. Maybe it would be different if we hadn't been together at the time when the trauma happened. I have wanted to improve for myself to, of course. To feel comfortable with my husband, to be able to do things with him that I want to do, to be able to go to the grocery store without issues. A lot of aspects in my life didn't improve significantly until I got a service dog who was trained specifically for me. My husband doesn't really like dogs and complains about him being in the way. He's a poodle so he doesn't shed much, but any hair on my husband's clothing and he complains about it. My dog really helps me though and my therapist worked with his trainer to make sure he was perfect for me. He watches me for signs of an anxiety attack coming on and can often stop it. He knows that certain people make me more nervous than others, usually spots them before I do and guides me in a different direction or stands in front of me. He does deep pressure therapy if I am having an anxiety or panic attack and it helps it end much faster. He knows when he needs to use forward momentum to pull me forward and keep walking and I can use him to push my bodyweight into if I'm having trouble breathing or getting up. He helps me a lot...
> 
> ...


I think think an online board for rape survivors would be a good place for you to post this. They can speak to your issues better then we can. Also in today's environment there is no reason why you have to be in an office to do counseling. This can be done over the internet. I would ask for help via email from experts on the internet and ask them to do online counseling with me. 

One thing I want to say to you is you are taking personal ownership for the issues in your sex life with your husband. The person who is responsible for this is the person who hurt you. It's not you or your husband. DO NOT, take ownership for that. DO NOT see this as a personal failure, you were robbed. Your husband was robbed. I don't know if this change in your thinking would help but it might. Instead of feeling like you failed, why not get angry. Why not use that anger to help you fight. Fight through your fears. So much easier said then done, I know. Sadly this person who did this to you in a way still has control over your life like he did when he did this. I am very sorry to say that to you as I know how hard that is to hear. It is very hard for me to say. 

Please understand me, I do not say anything like that as a criticism of you or your husband. I am probably closer to your situation then most as at one point in my young life I actually walked into the aftermath of a brutal rape that happened basically on the street to someone who is very close to me. I will not say more as it is not my place to talk about the pain this person endured and I will only talk about this incident from my own experience. The aftermath for me is on going but was so much easier then for the person who was assaulted, and still the ramifications of that incident are still felt by me today. I only stopped taking medication for it a year or so ago. It is hard for me to admit the the person who did that has had such a big impact on my life. 

The point I am trying to make is that this is not a failing in you. This is not the you or the marriage you were intended to have. Please accept that. Do not take ownership of any shame over this. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE! If you are, please do not let you feelings of failure leave you passive. No matter what happens this is not a failure of you or even your marriage. This is nothing but a theft. You were robbed. Your husband was robbed. 

I am assuming you and your husband are on medication for PTSD? Have you talked to the doctor about medication to take during sex to help you relax at least at first? Was you husband ever involved with your counseling? He need needs to be as he needs to learn the tools to help you. This is something that you both must do together. 

I wish I could give you better advice to help you fix this, but I think the only advice I can give you is to fight for your life.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Dear Picpea;

It sounds like you really love your H and want to save your marriage and rebuild it. That is wonderful. It also sounds like you have tried various forms of therapy and that hasn't worked.

I suggest that you talk to a bunch of therapists and get referrals to someone who specialize in rape victims. Also talk to therapists who use hypnosis and conditioning methods. From what you have said in your posts, it doesn't sound like you have worked with a good sex therapist who can introduce you to sex with your husband in gradual steps that you can learn to accept. Asking your H force himself on you doesn't sound like a good idea.

An earlier post discussed PTSD treatment through medical means. I strongly suggest that you discuss that with both a medical doctor and sex therapist. There have been uses of nasal spray Oxytocin in the treatment of PTSD. Oxytocin is the love hormone of cuddling hormone that is released during sex. Some of the effects of it are that it induces a sense of trust and it blocks the brain's fear receptors. It might be the ideal thing to see if it can be worked into your sex therapy as a way of being able to work past some of your fears the come up when you want to have sex with your H.

I would echo, the others who have said that you need really good professional help. Good luck to you.


----------



## picpea (Apr 17, 2017)

*urf:* The development of PTSD is complex. Childhood experiences, genetics, age, the type, extent and tiny details of the trauma all play a role. A person does not have to be broken or damaged before developing PTSD. I had a very normal life before my trauma, I had great parents and a great childhood. I had many friends, did well in school and sports. Had normal intimacy and a normal sex life. Even a good childhood can be a trigger for PTSD if the child is sheltered from stress and when thrown into a stressful situation has no idea how to cope. Being under the age of 25 at the time of the trauma makes PTSD more likely. The smaller details matter more than the larger ones. Had my situation gone differently but still been the same type of trauma I might not be here writing this. Same goes for veterans, if they had been given a different task they may not have come back with PTSD. It's more complex than, he was broken before going to Iraq. 

*Holdingontoit:* Thank you. I did one clinical trial a long time ago, 5 years or so. It did help but the trial didn't end up finishing though I cannot recall why. I'll admit that I have tried a handful of different drugs (without supervision) and some did help. Each time I felt like I _needed_ that drug immediately after and still get the urge to use them months and years later. Addiction scares me. I know that isn't the same as being monitored, but it still worries me. I have known people to have quite bad side effects while doing trials, but I suppose that can happen with any medication. 

*uhtred:* My therapists were not totally onboard with me wanting to force sexual intimacy so much. They know about it, and I talk about it, but they don't encourage it. I feel like it's all I have to try and keep my husband. I have always had to force some things (therapist recommended), like going to therapy together and letting my husband touch an area of my body for 3 seconds, then 5 seconds, then 10 seconds, and going on and on until he could touch parts of me without me being too uncomfortable. It progressed to sexual contact (at home, of course). We got to a point were the improvements stopped and we were at a standstill for a long time. That's when I decided to push it more. I do want to be intimate with my husband. I can barely remember it but before my trauma happened we had a great sex life. I don't want to be one of the women who expects their husband to go without sex because they don't want to try to solve the problem, trauma related or not. I don't know whether he is willing to stick around any longer or not... 

When I'm having sex with my husband it doesn't feel the same as my trauma. The act is the same but everything else is different. I don't necessarily want him to stop, I want the thoughts in my head and the aversion to stop. I have sometimes told my husband not to stop even if I tell him to in the moment, but it is still not the same. He looks at me, talks to me, kisses me, holds my hands. His body pressure on me stops me from being able to push him away and having pressure like that can help calm me down. I'm not exactly having the time of my life, but I don't feel like I am being assaulted again. 

I know that he has trouble looking at and touching certain parts of my body. He knows that I'm uncomfortable with those parts as well so it could definitely be a factor, but he has said that he has a hard time with it and lets mind movies get the best of him. I had laser scar removal on my wrists and the scars are still visible but not nearly as much. It helped with being able to leave that area exposed and to hold hands. My husband would see those scars during sexual intimacy and it bothered him. It made him feel like _he_ was restraining me, whether it was penetration or manual stimulation. I had scar removal on other places as well, and it helped. I have two areas on my body where scar removal hasn't been successful or hasn't been an option. I have elevated scars that go across my back and it doesn't bother me as much as it bothers my husband. I'm definitely more sensitive to touch on my back, and I always keep my back covered, but my husband can't even touch my back. If he does he immediately pulls away. I have a scar on my arm that I have to leave covered all the time so I always have a bandage over it and again, I think it bothers him more than it bothers me. My actions could have caused his. _My_ biggest issue (and I don't think it is as much of an issue for him) is the external appearance of my genitalia because a part was removed. It makes me tense up whenever he is in that area because it doesn't look the way it use to, or should. That has got worse since allowing him to see other women because it gives him something to compare me to. 

When my trauma occurred we had been together for a little over a year and he proposed 17 days prior. To my husband, getting engaged means you would marry that person right then and there, and commit to them for the rest of your life. So when he proposed in his eyes he was saying his "I do's" almost. When my trauma happened 2.5 weeks later he felt like he had no choice but to stand by me. I don't think he _wanted_ to as much as he felt like he _had_ to. He has said (in angry or stressful moments) that he regrets choosing to stay. When he proposed, _this_ wasn't what he signed up for. He wanted a happy marriage with the woman he fell in love with, kids, white picket fence in his home state. Not a childless, open marriage with a crappy sex life, a wife with mental health problems, doctor appointment after doctor appointment, a service dog and moving 3,000 miles away. Even immediately after my trauma happened I don't think he expected this. He knew it was bad, but he didn't know what to expect. 

I initiated the conversation about opening the marriage, my husband had never brought it up before. He said he didn't want or need to, and we don't talk about whether he does or not, but based on his actions I am certain that he has taken that free pass. He didn't want it, or I suppose he did because he chose to go ahead with it. I - in a way - wanted it because I thought if he had his fun somewhere else we could try and it wouldn't matter as much (to him) if it didn't work. 

When he almost hit me (I don't know how close he really was to doing it), in that moment and for a while afterwards I was scared. I started packing a bag to leave, but he left first and didn't come home that night. Prior to that we had tried to have sex, he wasn't able to get an erection at all and didn't want me to touch him. He kept trying, his frustration was getting ver high and bothering me. He said a couple very hurtful things about if I could do X or if I had X this wouldn't be a problem. I shut down and wouldn't/couldn't respond to him. He was yelling at me and I tried to leave the room. That's when he almost hit me and almost pushed me (onto the bed). He left after that. He texted me and apologized about an hour later, tried calling but I didn't pick up, and came back the next day. I think him being allowed to have sexual needs met elsewhere played a factor in it... 

I don't want to be one of the women who put up with violence. I know how he reacted was no okay. It is the only time something like that has ever happened and had he actually laid a hand on me I would have been gone. He has been acting off since that happened. 

For a long time we only focused on non-sexual intimacy, or outercourse as therapists seem to like to call it. I haven't really had problems touching him, but it took a long time to be comfortable with him again. Seeing me afraid of him hurt him. It took a long time to start having sexual intimacy and my husband was fine with it as long as we were making progress. When we first started having sexual intimacy my husband was ecstatic, but when it didn't go fast enough for him we started having issues. That little taste of it made him want the whole thing. 

*sokillme:* Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate it. I don't know why I decided to search for a marriage group rather than a sexual assault group. My marriage is my main concern, so I suppose that's why. 

I do blame myself, I have always struggled with that. I got myself to a point where I didn't blame myself for the trauma happening, but I do blame myself for the aftermath. I get so many comments of the _just get over it_ genre or comments like _I knew someone who was raped and they are fine_. Sexual assault is always bad but sometimes it is like comparing apples to oranges. Immediately afterwards I had a really bad therapist in the hospital who said some stupid, stupid things about because of something that happened to my body during/after the trauma, that the trauma would be easier to get over and I would have less reminders. He also tried to tell me that if I were pregnant it could be seen as a gift in a terrible situation. And before we even knew my STD status he thought it would be good to bring up HIV other than to just take the medication in case. I have told very few people the whole story so when people make comments they don't know what they are really commenting on. 

I want to stop thinking about the people that hurt me and shifting all the blame to myself makes it easier, in a way. The only little bit of peace I have is that the men who hurt me are in prison with a lot of time left on their sentences. 

My husband has gone to therapy with me, but not nearly as much as he should. He has gone alone as well, but not often. He doesn't like to go because he feels like we aren't making any progress and it's a waste of time and energy (because I get upset). In the beginning he went a lot, and it slowly tapered off to once a month. Then a few times a year. He has refused to go for the last few months. Sometimes I feel like I am fighting this battle alone, rather than together. 

My husband blames himself for not being able to fix or prevent it and for it happening at all. He went away for a week with friends to a wedding. I was suppose to go but changed my mind at the last minute. He was in another country so he didn't take his phone and was drunk half the time anyway. All of our friends were there, I don't talk to family that often and they thought I was going as well. So no one knew when something was wrong and my husband was having a great time while I... wasn't. Realistically, it probably wouldn't have happened if my husband was home because a vehicle would have been in the driveway. Regardless, he blames himself and it definitely causes problems. We're both on medication. He has stopped taking his from time to time, mostly when he doesn't want to go back to the doctor. 

I have asked if there is anything that I can take before sex to help me but my therapists and doctors have been hesitant to prescribe anything for that. There were (street) drugs involved during my assault and that causes hesitation for wanting to prescribe anything that might trigger me. Even though I've experimented with (street) drugs, and had intimacy, and wasn't affected negatively. Maybe I need to talk to a new doctor or ask for a different referral. 

Again, thank you for your reply.

*Young at Heart:* I do think I might need to talk to a different doctor and therapist. I have always been told that I fell into the small group of people that don't respond well to medications and (some) treatments. Maybe I need to find someone better. Before we moved across the country I had a really good therapist, after moving... not so much. 

I have used a nasal spray before, it wasn't oxytocin though. I can't for the life of me remember what it was. I think it started with an 'e' or 'k'. I had it until moving and switching doctors. There are a lot of options to try and either they worry me or they haven't been recommended for me to try. I'll have to find a new doctor to talk to. I have never tried hypnosis methods.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Have you looked into touch aversion? Sensory processing disorder? Other neurological causes?


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

picpea said:


> *urf:* The development of PTSD is complex. Childhood experiences, genetics, age, the type, extent and tiny details of the trauma all play a role. A person does not have to be broken or damaged before developing PTSD. I had a very normal life before my trauma, I had great parents and a great childhood. I had many friends, did well in school and sports. Had normal intimacy and a normal sex life. Even a good childhood can be a trigger for PTSD if the child is sheltered from stress and when thrown into a stressful situation has no idea how to cope. Being under the age of 25 at the time of the trauma makes PTSD more likely. The smaller details matter more than the larger ones. Had my situation gone differently but still been the same type of trauma I might not be here writing this. Same goes for veterans, if they had been given a different task they may not have come back with PTSD. It's more complex than, he was broken before going to Iraq.
> 
> *Holdingontoit:* Thank you. I did one clinical trial a long time ago, 5 years or so. It did help but the trial didn't end up finishing though I cannot recall why. I'll admit that I have tried a handful of different drugs (without supervision) and some did help. Each time I felt like I _needed_ that drug immediately after and still get the urge to use them months and years later. Addiction scares me. I know that isn't the same as being monitored, but it still worries me. I have known people to have quite bad side effects while doing trials, but I suppose that can happen with any medication.
> 
> ...


:crying:


----------



## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I knew a girl once who suffered a sexual trauma. She suffered aversion. Probably nothing like you. Nobody is like anyone else, really.

Why did she speak to me about it? I don't know. Why was she not able to find relief from the counseling she had received from others? I have no idea what others may have said, or why it didn't work. All I know is she wanted me to help her. I was very relaxed about sex, talking about sex with me was easy.

I tried different ideas. I was pretty useless for a while. Years. In the end one crazy idea worked, for her. Probably can't work for anyone else.

In a conversation one day I told her she should just own it. It wasn't her fault, it was his fault, but she should just own it. It happened. Just think about it, stop avoiding thinking about it. A couple years later, she said she did just that, and finally came to realize it was something bad someone did, but it wasn't her fault. Once she realized it wasn't her fault, she got better. 

She told me she got better because she stopped trying to divorce herself from it. She accepted bad things happen. Bad things happen to her. Somehow thinking through it, maybe discussing the incident with me at the beginning of the trail, but mostly accepting "bad things" happen to her, got her walking down the road to recovery. Somehow she had kept blaming herself. That's what we think was happening. But that's just her story. Not anyone else's.

I am truly sorry anything bad ever happens to people, especially girls/women. It makes my soul hurt.

Please get better.


----------



## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Her assault occurred when she was 13 years old. I met her when she was failing school at the age of 16, and blaming herself for everything bad in her life, all because she felt she deserved to be punished. Soon after I met her she turned to prostitution. Her own self recrimination was relentless. She hated herself.

I was hired to try to help her at least get a high school diploma. I don't even remember if she succeeded in that or not.

Her life went to hell. She married a man who pimped her out, because she felt that was all she deserved.

I begged her to dump him. It was while she was with him that I suggested that crazy idea of owning her assault. She was 18 then. I had been trying to help her for two years by then.

It worked. I still can't believe it worked. She dumped him, too. She healed. Within two years she was out of prostitution, divorced, and had found a new guy who then married her. A year after that, when she was 21, she called me and told me she had learned to actually enjoy sex. She couldn't believe how much fun it was!

And she thanked me for helping her.


----------



## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your situation.

Through no fault of your own or your husbands, the basic fabric of your relationship was ripped away from the both of you.

Sorry that I do have anything else to add here. 

Good luck.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Picpea:

I am not a professional, so I cannot provide sound advice for such a significant level of trauma.

I just wanted to say that you have my sympathy for the trauma you endured. NOBODY should have to endure such trauma. NOBODY.

That said, the only thing I could maybe encourage you to do is that which causes you anxiety. Up thread you mentioned certain things that spike your anxiety, so you alluded to avoiding them. I would think the more you do them without a negative outcome, the more you could retrain your neural pathways to not trigger. 

My wife lost her virginity at 16 by date rape, and continued to date him because she felt like she needed to stay with him because you "stayed" with someone after you slept with them where she is from. 

At 40, she still sometimes triggers to things. What helps is gently pushing through them when they occur. It is sort of like the saying, "When you are going through hell, keep going." 

I hope this helps, and I am sorry for what you have suffered, and continue to suffer.


----------



## crocus (Apr 8, 2016)

So sorry sweetie. WilliamM ...what he said. 
A very impactful event I experienced in life...
A counsellor had a puzzle on the table. It was comforting. Keep your hands busy and I actually got kind of excited about finishing it.
The COW had the last piece in her pocket.
Watched me getting stressed about it. Ha ha ha very funny.
She takes it out, tells me it's just one piece of the whole puzzle, but without the puzzle isn't complete. So what's the point of keeping it in your pocket, hidden away? 
I was so mad. Then I wasn't.
And I'm being kind. But but but
Nobody holding you back but yourself. And that's perfectly okay too. Sometimes the answer is do nothing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

When I got my degree in biology I considered going on to becoming a counselor, but I have to say the professors I took psychology courses from at university seemed a little... nutty.

My wife had a lot of problems when I married her. She went to a counselor, and then two different psychiatrists. In the end she said none of them where worth anything. She is not the girl I wrote about. They did know each other. It was interesting. My wife always liked the other girl, while the other girl was jealous of my wife.

It is very important to try different help until you get the help you need.


----------



## seek&find (Apr 18, 2017)

Some people should not be married and some marriages should not be saved. 

You should not have agreed to marry him knowing the extent of your disability. Until you can get yourself to a point that allows you to be fully sexual with a man you have no business marrying one, not a normal one anyway. There are asexual men out there, perhaps engage with one of them and see where it goes - when you get healthy. For right now this sham of a marriage needs to end and you need to work on yourself. 

If you truly love your husband then let him go. Let him be happy and have the life he deserves. You can't have what you want in life but you can allow him to have what he wants. Don't allow two lives to be ruined, picpea. Learn to be happy through his happiness.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Picpea--while I agree with everyone's assertion that you need to keep pursuing professional help for yourself, I think your husband needs to be in individual counseling as well. He needs to be in a place mentally where seeing evidence of your trauma doesn't trigger HIM. And the fact that he raised his hand to you....be careful. Even more reason he needs to be in I.C.

With regards to your scar removal treatments--you mentioned that some have been unsuccessful. Let me preface this by saying--do this only for yourself, or not at all. Do not do it for your husband--he needs to get over his own issues. I've seen amazing results where people have had some beautiful tattoos done to cover all sorts of scars.


----------



## picpea (Apr 17, 2017)

*Fozzy:* I wish my husband would go to therapy and stick with it. He has gone in the past, alone and together. In the beginning of our journey he went a lot but it has slowly decreased over time. Now he rarely goes, alone or with me. He thinks it is a waste of time and isn't getting us anywhere. He has also expressed that he thinks therapists are just holding us back so we keep going back and putting money in their pockets. 

Intimacy is made harder because my body triggers him. I had scar removal done on certain parts, like my wrists because they made it painful and difficult to move my wrists and because they bothered me, and my husband. I hated seeing them and always kept my wrists covered, if other people saw them they stared. It's obvious what kind of scars they are, or were - less obvious now. At least it was obvious to me, it may not have been to other people. I had a kid ask me if I had my hands cut off and reattached... I had scar removal done on my arm but it didn't work and now I keep that one covered all the time because it's a massive trigger for my husband. I keep a large bandaid over it all the time and it has basically become part of me now, only coming off to be replaced by another every few days. The odd time I have forgot to replace it or my husband has walked in while I was doing it he tells me to cover it up and gets upset or mad (not at me). Sometimes just accidentally touching the bandaid can bother him. That scar at least could be covered decently well with a tattoo, probably. I know I would have a hard time with the pain of a tattoo. 

He avoids my back like the plague. I haven't had any scar removal there, mostly because it is a huge trigger point for me and having pain there is hard for me to deal with. The scars are uncomfortable, it makes rotating my body and bending over uncomfortable and insanely itchy, but not enough for me to try and fix it. I don't scar well and have elevated scars. I keep my whole back covered all the time unless I am home alone. There has been times when my husband came home early and I would run upstairs before he came in to change my shirt or put on a sweater. He doesn't want to see it... Because they are elevated he won't/can't even touch my back over clothing. The scars take up the width of my back... so they aren't easy to avoid. I'm not about to go out in public showing my back, but it would be nice if I could at least feel comfortable at home... I think those scars bother me the least because I can't really see them... 

*seek&find:* I don't think it's fair to say that people shouldn't be married... Do you think all sexual assault victims should just bury themselves into a hole? I know that my husband would be happier without me. Maybe I'm selfish for being with him... Just because I experienced a trauma does not mean I'm not allowed to love someone... I'm not trying to ruin his life or his happiness... I gave him the okay to sleep with other women if he wanted to... that wasn't for me... I love my husband. I don't want to hurt him or lose him... Trust me, I feel bad all the time. 

*WilliamM:* You are right that I do need to keep trying different methods and options until I find something that works for me. Some things that worked in the past don't work anymore and I have to find something else. 

*farsidejunky:* Doing things that trigger me is something that I have difficulty with. In the past I did a lot of exposure therapy, if I remember correctly I did 3 different variations that are classed as exposure therapy. It definitely helped with some triggers. There use to be certain sounds that triggered me, now I can hear them and I immediately notice them but I can continue on with what I'm doing. There are certain people who trigger me based on their physical appearance and that one is kind of iffy. Sometimes I'm okay, sometimes I'm not. I use to go insane if there was silence, listening to every tiny sound trying to figure out what it is, I can handle that now. The "bigger" things have been a lot harder and I quit when I wasn't seeing progress. I try and push myself through some situations, and I usually feel better after it's over than if I quit and walk away. I probably need to try it again or something similar. Something that I hate thinking about is that in 20, 30, 70 years this is still going to be something that bothers me at least from time to time. 

*WilliamM":* I'm glad that woman is doing better now. I wish I could enjoy sex again, that seems so far out of reach... Some aspects of it are impossible to enjoy again. I just want to be close to my husband and have that bond and experiences with him again. 

I suck at trying to own it. It is always going to be a part of me, but I want it to just go away. Afterwards I had a pretty bad head injury and I was told that I might not be able to remember all or parts of it, I wish that would have been true. I had a surgery and when I woke up the first thing I thought was _I still remember_. You are right that I need to own it. I don't really blame myself anymore, but I am always trying to run away from it.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Picpea, are you a person of faith?


----------



## seek&find (Apr 18, 2017)

picpea said:


> *seek&find:* I don't think it's fair to say that people shouldn't be married... Do you think all sexual assault victims should just bury themselves into a hole? I know that my husband would be happier without me. Maybe I'm selfish for being with him... Just because I experienced a trauma does not mean I'm not allowed to love someone... I'm not trying to ruin his life or his happiness... I gave him the okay to sleep with other women if he wanted to... that wasn't for me... I love my husband. I don't want to hurt him or lose him... Trust me, I feel bad all the time.


No, I do not think that all rape victims are broken or should be avoided. Reading between the lines this isn't a case of a woman being questionably raped while drunk or by her husband or partner. There appears to be A LOT more going on and yes, some people are too broke to have functional relationships. From what you have posted I think you and your husband are bringing each other down. He is holding you back, putting too much pressure on you and making you feel worse about yourself through his own issues. You are bringing him down with you and forcing him to be in a place and mindset that he doesn't need to be in. Misery loves company, but it doesn't need it. What do you get from this marriage, anyway?


----------



## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I never even really knew what I meant by own it, when I told her that. She had wanted to forget, but she couldn't. We talked a few times a week for two years before I came up with that idea. I sat with her and had her describe it to me. We cried. I held her. Her trauma wasn't as bad, but it's not wise to quantify. She was beaten, threatened, it was a relative, and it was ongoing for months. She never told anyone because of the threats. A 13 year old couldn't know he wouldn't be able to carry out his threats. 

Traumas are horrible. Yours was horrible. My heart bleeds for you. But your husband can hold you. Some traumas aren't survived, and the loved ones can only mourn. For a while that may seem a better resolution, but it isn't. Not really. 

Many people are damaged in some way. It may be little, or larger. One thing that is important is for your husband to accept the scars. My wife has scars, from surgeries when she had Tuberculosis. It is not considered a trauma because no one did it to her, it just happened. But I trace her scars with my fingers and tell her she is so cute I am amazed by her. She tells stories about how people tried to cut her head off. My wife also has a scoliosis. She used to wear a bikini in her youth anyway. I was proud of her, even when people could see the curve in her spine. It's important for the ones who love you to accept you the way you are. I knew a girl in class in university, who had back surgery at some point. She had a friend draw laces on her scar and wore backless dresses every day, so it looked like she had a lace up back. We all deal differently, but hiding never seemed to work.

I don't have any idea how someone can come to accept such a trauma. But I also don't know how we can come to accept deaths. Surely accepting you in your beauty and scars, spirit and fears, is better than not having you to hold.

Please be well


----------



## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Thank you @WilliamM. That was beautiful.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

picpea said:


> *Fozzy:* I wish my husband would go to therapy and stick with it. He has gone in the past, alone and together. In the beginning of our journey he went a lot but it has slowly decreased over time. Now he rarely goes, alone or with me. He thinks it is a waste of time and isn't getting us anywhere. He has also expressed that he thinks therapists are just holding us back so we keep going back and putting money in their pockets.
> 
> Intimacy is made harder because my body triggers him. I had scar removal done on certain parts, like my wrists because they made it painful and difficult to move my wrists and because they bothered me, and my husband. I hated seeing them and always kept my wrists covered, if other people saw them they stared. It's obvious what kind of scars they are, or were - less obvious now. At least it was obvious to me, it may not have been to other people. I had a kid ask me if I had my hands cut off and reattached... I had scar removal done on my arm but it didn't work and now I keep that one covered all the time because it's a massive trigger for my husband. I keep a large bandaid over it all the time and it has basically become part of me now, only coming off to be replaced by another every few days. The odd time I have forgot to replace it or my husband has walked in while I was doing it he tells me to cover it up and gets upset or mad (not at me). Sometimes just accidentally touching the bandaid can bother him. That scar at least could be covered decently well with a tattoo, probably. I know I would have a hard time with the pain of a tattoo.
> 
> ...


Picpea, here's my completely amateur, uneducated opinion. You can stay in therapy as long as you like, but if your husband is going to keep acting like this--insisting you stay covered up, etc. it's going to take you a lot longer to get healthy. His actions and attitudes are holding you back. How are you supposed to accept yourself when your husband is constantly making you feel inadequate? I'm not saying it would be impossible, but I'd bet a lot of money that it's a hell of a lot harder.


----------



## picpea (Apr 17, 2017)

*farsidejunky:* I'm not religious or spiritual in the slightest, it's kind of hard to be now.

*seek&find:* Everything anyone else gets from a marriage, other than an orgasm...

*WilliamM:* I wish my husband would be like that. Sometimes I wish I had died instead. It feels like it would have been easier for everyone. My husband has the option to hold me, but he doesn't really want to. I have some scars from unrelated medical procedures that my husband has never batted an eyelash at. But the ones that I really need him not to mind are the ones that he doesn't want to see or touch. He doesn't want to work on it, and I don't think I'm worth it to him. 

I wish I had the courage to go out without covering my scars. I wouldn't be able to deal with people asking what they are or making assumptions. Maybe if they didn't have such a humiliating cause. 

*Fozzy:* I wish I could relax with my husband, and not constantly be worried about how my body is positioned, what part he can see or what he might accidentally touch. Your comment is right though... He isn't helping. He doesn't seem interested in trying to fix it, so my posting all of this may have been a waste... He won't talk to me about it and gets more distant by the day. He hasn't even bothered to come home yet tonight (midnight).


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

picpea said:


> *farsidejunky:* I'm not religious or spiritual in the slightest, it's kind of hard to be now.


In what way?


----------



## picpea (Apr 17, 2017)

If there was some type of higher power or reason for this life things like this wouldn't happen. There is no need for them to happen. It wasn't _meant to be_ or for the _greater good_ of anything. I was raised in a two religion household, I can appreciate religion but I don't believe in it.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I'm sorry you interpret things that way. 

In fairness, I have never faced anything as traumatic as you. 

I think the thing that made me pursue this line of questioning with you that you sound devoid of hope. My relationship with God is one of the few things that provides me hope when times are tough.

Take care, Picpea.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@picpea

Dear lord I am so very sorry for all the hardship you are facing. The trauma must have been horrendous!

I've had to re teach my body and override emotional reactions in order to enjoy sex. I was sexually abused as a child. While my issues seem a cake walk to yours, maybe there are some similarities that might help you in your sitch.

But first, can you tell me why you want to have sex anyway? If you could design your perfect future being guaranteed that both you and your husband found happiness and contentment, would it include sex? Do you want sex for you or do you want sex for your H? You really need to think about your answer. 

Those are the questions I asked myself. Did I want sex for me or did I want sex so that my husband would be happy with me? I decided I wanted sex because I wanted to be normal. I wanted to stop pretending I was normal and actually BE normal. (This was long before I discovered no one is normal when it comes to sex...because there is no normal!)

Your husband sounds like a decent guy who is consumed with guilt. "Shoulda been there and protected, shoulda ...coulda....woulda.... wouldn't have happened." I don't know too many men who would have walked away from a woman they loved after she suffered such a horrific trauma. I bet your husband is horribly conflicted at this point. How could anyone have walked away from someone they loved as you suggest he should have? Could you have done that? Could you have walked away knowing the suffering and pain of the trauma would be compounded by abandonment? It's probably insulting to him to suggest such a thing. But now 6 years later he is still fighting the battle he missed out on and instead he hates himself a little more each day because he can't make you feel happy and whole and he blames himself.

What he needs to understand is that it is not in his power to do that. He cannot make you healthy, happy and whole. Only you can do that.


My first suggestion is to stop worrying about your husband and what he wants or doesn't want or how he feels or what you think he thinks. It doesn't matter. None of that matters because ...you can only control you. I know you've heard that a thousand times but it doesn't seem to have sunk in, maybe that's part of your anxiety. Stop worrying about your husband!

You're pushing your idea, your mental picture, of what a marriage is supposed to be and what a husband is supposed to want/like and what a wife is supposed to want/like and it doesn't sound like your husband is on the same page.





> I know that he has trouble looking at or touching certain places on my body...


Why is that? If he hasn't run his hands and mouth over every damn scar you have, acknowledging them, touching them, loving them because they are a part of you that you both need to come to terms with, then he is every bit as traumatized and averse as you are. And if what you say is true, that he doesn't go there because it bothers him, as opposed to him not going there because he knows it bothers you, than it is doubly important that you stop putting him into the process of healing. Because you can't heal him and he can't heal you.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

picpea said:


> If there was some type of higher power or reason for this life things like this wouldn't happen. There is no need for them to happen. It wasn't _meant to be_ or for the _greater good_ of anything. I was raised in a two religion household, I can appreciate religion but I don't believe in it.


Amen to that sister! 

Many survivors do not believe, and cannot even imagine believing. Life has taught them there is no such thing as a benevolent omniscient, because if there was, he absolutely sucks at his life's calling!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

picpea said:


> I wish my husband would be like that. Sometimes I wish I had died instead. It feels like it would have been easier for everyone. My husband has the option to hold me, but he doesn't really want to. I have some scars from unrelated medical procedures that my husband has never batted an eyelash at. But the ones that I really need him not to mind are the ones that he doesn't want to see or touch. He doesn't want to work on it, and I don't think I'm worth it to him.


I missed this last night.

This is a problem. A big one. A bad one.

Is this true? Accurate? Has he admitted this to you or is this your interpretation of his behavior?

If you contemplate that your surviving the attack was a mistake, and you believe your husband doesn't want to hold you and can't bring himself to look upon your scars this is what is holding you back. 

How can you get to a healthy place, sexually, if you are convinced it is hopeless to try?

Most survivors have deep shame, that seems insurmountable, that prevents them from wanting to share their body during sex. That shame creates a divide emotionally. We go through the motions because that's what we're supposed to do, but not because that's what we want to do. In a sense, each time we have sex we are retraumatizing ourselves because we are forcing a sexual act. Creating an even deeper disconnect between sexual behavior and sexual feelings. In your case it's even more pronounced because you also have emotional triggers that cause you to tense up and any sexual arousal that is supposed to accompany the sexual behavior is completely gone.

You need to stop having sex with your husband until he is okay with your scars. Whether that means you see his behavior as a response to you ("I know she hates this part of her body so I won't even go there because I don't want her to be uncomfortable") or he gets his head out of his ass and comes to terms with the scars that mark you as a survivor. I have a hard time believing he can't tolerate holding you because of your scars. That would mean your husband is a shallow SOB and if that is true you are wasting your time in this marriage.


----------



## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

This has been one of the hardest threads for me to read on TAM! 

PicPea, You have given us enough of a picture to understand that the trauma you went through was horrific. i am so so sorry that there are people in this world that would do such egregious atrocities and I am so sorry for all that you have had to go through and for what you are going through now with your husband. 

I am going to carry on with what Anon Pink posted concerning your husband's battle. While you went through something no-one should ever have to go through - your husband also went through his own horrible trauma. You have physical and emotional scars left from it; he has emotional ones. I am sure he felt intensely guilty for not being there when you needed him most. I am also sure that he felt intense anger towards the men who caused this trauma and I wonder if has ever really processed or dealt with that anger fully with a therapist. You both were very young and I suspect that when he went ahead with the marriage - he did so very naively, probably with the unrealistic expectation that his love could make it all better for you, that by being your Knight in Shining Armour after the trauma he could be with you and help you heal completely. I suspect he unrealistically expected that your love for each other would help both of you return to the normal you knew before the trauma occurred. And now he is facing the fact that his expectations are not the reality.

Over the years no matter how hard he tried, nor what he did or didn't do, his unrealistic expectations of helping you heal has not played out - and I think this has just reinforced his already existing feeling of being a total failure as a man, as your Knight, and especially as your protector. Anon Pink said it well "now 6 years later he is still fighting the battle he missed out on and instead he hates himself a little more each day because he can't make you feel happy and whole and he blames himself" 

His wounds are not healing and what's even worse - they are now getting severely infected!! And this infection is destroying him and he doesn't have a clue what to do anymore to help you or himself. I suspect he feels terrible about himself and may even feel somewhat trapped in a situation that he is now realizing he is not equipped to handle well. He may feel that leaving you just proves how big of a failure he really is and he may be afraid of what will happen to you if he leaves you. i think he loves you and wants you to heal. I think he wants your marriage to work - and he is becoming increasingly more frustrated and angry that HE can't help you!

Being around you, seeing your scars, going to other woman to have sex - all of these are reinforcements of his failures in his eyes and are probably very very painful reminders for him. They are reminders that he can't make it all better for you - he can't take away your pain - and he can't take away what happened to you. Because he is probably dealing with his own painful emotions, I suspect his self preservation urges right now are probably screaming at him to run - especially after he almost lost his temper with you! I think that incident probably scared and confused him as much as it scared you! Perhaps he is staying away because he is starting to recognize that you are both hurting each other more, rather than helping each other.

PicPea - your husband was/is severely traumatized too - not in the same way, but his pain and torment are just as real! You both have terrible infected wounds from the horrific trauma and the aftermath of dealing with it. You both have a lot of work to do to work on healing your infected wounds. However, Anon Pink is absolutely right "you can't heal him and he can't heal you". I am going to take that a step further in saying that I think you both may be actually interfering with each others healing process at this point because you are focusing your energy on each other and trying to make this marriage work instead of the important first steps of healing your own individual wounds! And actually, what you are doing is creating even more wounds for each other to deal with. You are not doing it intentionally, but that is what is happening. You can't create a healthy happy marriage until you BOTH are individually healthy enough to be able to work together on creating it. NEITHER of you are at that point right now! 

Perhaps its time for both of you to step back from the marriage for a period of time. Perhaps you should both take a break from each other. I am not suggesting a divorce - perhaps a legal separation for now, while you both focus on your own individual healing with some really good therapists who specialize in your specific kind of trauma. Perhaps when you both are making enough progress with your own healing, you can re-evaluate the marriage and decide where to go from there.

You absolutely deserve to love and be loved, to be in a happy and healthy marriage and so does your husband. I hope you both can find that together, but if you can't, I hope you are both strong enough to let go so you both can build a happy life with someone else. I know this is not what you want to hear, but I think it may be what you need to hear right now, for both your sake and for your husband's sake. 

Again, I truly am sorry for what you have had to deal with and for what you are now dealing with. I hope you will find a way to heal enough to have a very happy life full of joy and love and perhaps even someday find a way to turn your traumatic event into something positive in some way!


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

After reading the rest of your post...I have to agree with other posters, you and your H cannot heal each other. You have to focus to yourself. Your H is so tormented by this that you cannot help him. He is changing and after 6 years it might be coming to the end for him. Heal yourself. Learn to love yourself again. Let him go. Let this marriage go before you destroy yourself. 

At times you have to understand that just because you love someone, does not mean that they are good for you. Just because you want to stay married does not mean it good for you. 

I understand shame and feeling dirty. I still wear them from time to time. But blame, it was never on me. I refuse to take blame even if it tries to peep at me and crawl my way. Stop blaming your self. You lived and survived. Learn to live again by letting this go. It weighing you down and preventing you from moving forward. Remember you need to put on your oxygen mask first. 

I wish you peace and happiness. Love for yourself is in you waiting to blossom.


----------



## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

There are two things to face. The physical and the emotional. 

As you alluded to, the physical may actually be easy, easier, to face, comparatively. If you had been hurt in a fire or an automobile accident you and your husband might think nothing of the scars. 

As for the scarring on your genitals, have you investigated Female Genital Mutilation (or Circumcision) which has no standards of procedure. It is a horrible practice which should stop. People should not compare it to male circumcision. Especially since the practice of it is so horribly done, with no standards and by amateurs who mutilate girls in no standard way at all. It can't make you better, but know that many of these girls grow up to lead happy lives. I have supported groups trying to fight this practice, and have read reports about it.

I think it would help you to know something about it. Not sure why, just a thought.

My wife just had a hysterectomy. Someone even suggested she is less of a woman because she lost her womb. She is 61 years old, and it certainly can't be used to bear a child, but some people have that view anyway. My wife is certain it doesn't matter, but she is especially certain it does not matter at all because she knows, without doubt, it does not matter to me and I will not treat her different at all.

How your husband treats you is vital. He needs to treat your scars the same as if they were from a hunting accident. I have no idea how to get to that point.

I make a lousy counselor. I get too involved with people.

An aside about counselors. When I was in university one of my classes I recall made mention of the fact the people who could become counselors needed to be able to not care too much about their patients. Those who did care too much would burn out quick and fail. So, many counselors are cold-hearted people. Keep trying to find the right one.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

What a horrible, heartbreaking story. My heart bleeds for you. I wish there was something profound and earth-moving that would make all the difference and would help. 

I will echo what the others have said and do not give up on therapy and counseling and such. 

Please understand that neither I nor any of the other posters are counselors or therapists or any other kind of professional. We are just regular people that offer our thoughts and perspectives to others over the anonymous medium of the internet. 

Some of us have been around the block a few times and have seen many things over the years. I am 53 years old and have worked in a professional where I encounter various assault victims (again, I am not any kind of therapist or counselor)

Please bear with me here for what I am about to say is something that I have witnessed over the years, but it is likely not what you are going to want to hear. 

Many marriages and relationships crumble following a sexual assault (or other major trauma for that matter). Both you and he are different people now than you were the day before the attack. Following the attack, you changed drastically. He changed drastically. Both of your worlds were shaken to their foundations. 

God bless you for surviving and getting through it and coming out the other side. God bless him for being there for you and standing beside you and working with you all these years. You both are amazing people deserving of credit and praise. 

But here we are none the less........

Where I am going with this is you have both been profoundly changed by this event. The dynamics of what your relationship was at the start of your engagement has been dramatically changed and upended. You're both different people now and that change in your relationship dynamics is not working for either one of you. Your current state of the relationship sounds toxic and heartbreaking for both of you. 

I understand you wanting to save and salvage your marriage, but it may not be in either one of your best interests. You are both suffering and it doesn't sound like it's gotten any better over the years and if it is coming close to violence, I'd say it's getting worse. 

You may both be better off dissolving this amicably and with professional guidance to help you both dissolve the marriage with as much mutual compassion and respect and with as little bad blood and hard feelings as possible.

That is the bad news.

Please please please read my next post for the possible silver lining in all of this -


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

As bad as my first post sounds, there is hope here. 

Remember I said that the people you both were and the relationship you had prior to the attack were profoundly changed forever. 

HOWEVER, that does not mean that you have been left incapable of having a good, warm, close, intimate and even sexual relationship with someone else in the future. 

Remember you had a preexisting relationship with him that was profoundly changed. 

That doesn't mean that you are tainted or that you are forever incapable of an intimate and sexual relationship with someone else going into the future. 

If you and he were to divorce, the next person you meet will be meeting you as you are today and you will be meeting the person that the new guy is today. It would be hitting the "reset" button and would be a fresh start. You would both be starting fresh and both starting from Square One and not having the rug pulled out from under you by a profoundly life-changing event. 

To put it bluntly, you wouldn't be having the baggage and disruption of that event changing everything. 

You may not necessarily have the same sexual hangups and inhibitions and such with someone else that you do with your current H. 

And a different person may not necessarily have the frustrations and exasperations that your current H does. 

I know if may seem counterintuitive and you may feel like you will always feel the way you do now and will always have the same issues and such, but I guarantee you, any time you're with someone new, you hit the 'reset' button and many of your pasts sexual nuances are in fact different. 

It's heartbreakingly unfair and too bad that it is like this, but it is a realty. 

As I said in my first post above, many marriages and relationships fail following a sexual assault. .....but that doesn't mean that subsequent marriages and relationships are necessarily doomed to fail as well. Sometimes the next relationship starts with a clean slate and goes fine. 

Now it will always be incumbent on you to continue with your therapies and treatments of course and yes you will still carry your physical and emotional scars. But here's the thing - WE ALL HAVE OUR OWN PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL SCARS. None of us get through life completely unscathed. Some just get more and some get less, but we all have scars and baggage. 

You and your current H are floundering at handling the physical and emotional scars and baggage that were placed upon you during your relationship. 

There is a chance that when you meet someone new while already carrying your baggage, it may not have such a big and negative impact as when it fell onto you in the middle of your current relationship. 

Again, I'm not a professional and I am certainly not a fortune teller or clairvoyant that can read the future. But I have seen exactly this happen time and time again where a terrible trauma cripples the current relationship - but the next one does fine. 

Neither you nor your H are lost causes by any means here. You just may not be right for each other following this terrible trauma any more.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

picpea said:


> ....I wish I could relax with my husband, and not constantly be worried about how my body is positioned, what part he can see or what he might accidentally touch. Your comment is right though... He isn't helping. He doesn't seem interested in trying to fix it, so my posting all of this may have been a waste... He won't talk to me about it and gets more distant by the day. He hasn't even bothered to come home yet tonight (midnight).


For someone like yourself most Sex Therapists would provide you with instructions on Sensate Focus exercises and forms of self-hypnosis or affirmations on helping you relax to the touch of your husband and to improve your self image enough to allow you to expose your body to your H.

A good sex therapist would also give your H exercises and instruction on what he can do to become committed to rebuilding the physical connection in your marriage.

Good luck.


----------



## kalen (Apr 19, 2017)

Usually I just lurk here, however your thread made me want to create an account. I have gone back and forth about posting this for a couple days.

I think I have a pretty good idea of what your trauma entailed by reading between the lines. Years ago, there was a string of women being forced into human trafficking (many still are, hundreds in the last few years). I remember it because the method of obtaining the women was different than a classic player-pimp. These women were stalked, attacked in their home while alone, raped, deemed “worthy” to be sold, taken to a house or hotel and beat with heated up metal, whipped, chocked and forced to perform, then branded (burned with hot metal or cut with knifes or razor blades) with a number or pimps ID. Then locked in a room day in and day out and forced to have sex with dozens of men who came in, not being allowed to eat until they had serviced enough men. After that some where sold off and some were so broken they remained prostitutes under the pimp that abducted them in the first place. Some didn’t make “the cut” and suffered genital mutilation, threats on them and their family, and released, other’s ran away or were found.

Related or not, reading your thread and the small details that are sort of hidden throughout reminded my of this, and I haven’t thought about it in years. 

I say this because years ago, a young woman came to my university and gave a presentation. She was one of the women who was involved in this and wanted to share her story, to save other women, spread the word and help people understand the reality of it. If I can find a video of it I will link in, in case you would like to see it. It may be too difficult and very trigger heavy. I remember no phones or cameras were allowed, so I may not be able to find it. 

The point I was trying to make is, this woman turned her nightmare into something that she could use to help other people. She could talk to other women who were going through the same thing. She could help people understand the reality of “modern day slavery” and that it IS going on here. She helped people learn how to help friends and family who were suffering. Not only did this help other people, but being an advocate also helped her. Maybe, it is something that you would benefit from. 

One thing that she said stood out to me and your words let my mind recall it. The woman revealed some of her scars, what I remember is her back that was covered in thin, long scars that were caused by heated up wire, and initials that had been branded with a cattle brander into her arm or shoulder. She said (may be a little bit off):

“These scars are a story of where I have been, not where I am nor who I am, but where I am going and what I have overcome. They are a story of my courage and my strength to fight back and regain control of my life. Strength, courage and life are never something to be ashamed of. The longer I hid the more power my abusers had. Silence gives them strength. Silence feeds them. Do not be silent. Do not hide. Be proud that you beat them. YOU won.” 

The presentation was not mandatory, but so many people wanted to see it that the theatre that held 1,200 people was full and people were standing at the back of the room and sitting on the stairs and floor. I have never been in a room with 1,200+ people that was so silent. You could have heard a paperclip drop. After the presentation was done the silence remained and the halls felt differently that day. The impact was immense. Of the hundreds of lectures and presentations I watched, that one stands out the most.


----------



## kalen (Apr 19, 2017)

Also, if some form of genital mutilation was done to you (I cannot quite tell from your posts but pretty sure) there may now be reconstructive options that were not previously available. If I recall correctly you said they could not fix the function, which may be true, but go for second, third, tenth opinions IF you want to. Reconstructive genital surgery, especially for women, has come a LONG way recently. Let’s just say, I have a friend who was assigned male at birth but identified female. She had “bottom surgery” last year and starting from scratch doctors made a perfect specimen that is indistinguishable from any other woman. For the record, she does have feeling throughout every part. If you have not discussed it with a doctor in recent years and if you WANT to, it may be worth it to you. Again, only if that is something that you want to do. You are beautiful regardless.


----------



## picpea (Apr 17, 2017)

@Anon Pink
I don't like to say that my trauma was worse than someone else's, they are all bad. Sometimes I find myself sinking into a pity party when I let myself think that my experience was worse than other people who try to help me. I get into a _no one understands, no one has been there, no one can help_ mindset. It also makes me feel like I'm downplaying other people's experiences and interpretations. 

I want to have sex for me, for us. I enjoyed sex once upon a time. I guess I could call it a benefit that I did have sex before and did enjoy it. I can barely remember it, but I know I enjoyed it and I know it can be fun and connecting. I want to feel like a woman again. I want to connect with my husband. If my husband would be fully content either way, I would still want it. 

I don't get turned on and feel like I need him right then and there. It physically hurts to get the physical feelings associated with being turned on so my body doesn't go there or all bets are off. I want him because I want to be close to him and no amount of cuddling or kissing satisfies that need. There is no pleasure from it so it isn't a physical pleasure seeking thing anymore, more emotional... 

My husband... he is a good man. He is very sensitive. There was a period after my trauma that all I felt was pain and fear. I didn't cry, unless it was from pain. I didn't get upset, I didn't laugh or smile. I didn't talk. I was essentially emotionless. I didn't feel human. My husband was an emotional wreck during that time, which was to be expected. I don't know where I was going with that, I guess that sometimes my husband has seemed to be more affected than me. I love my husband, and he has done his best to support me. He doesn't know every detail (not that he needs to) because he couldn't handle it (he made that decision not me). When I had to testify in court he left the room part way through. 

His biggest problem is "mind movies". From what he does know he replays it over and over in his head and his imagination gets the best of filling in the blanks. Unfortunately the reality isn't any better. He does NOT look at my body or touch my body and think it is disgusting. What he DOES do is look at a scar or touch a scar and think about what happened to cause that. And can't get that out of his mind. Hearing the words "when I touch you there I imagine you being ______" was not easy to hear. 

My husband had a great life before this. He was raised by amazing parents, no one in his family had problems or even divorced, no one had kids out of wedlock, drank, did drugs, no one was hurt, he had never known anyone who had been assaulted. If you would ask him what his worst experience was he wouldn't know what to say (I had asked him). So when my assault happened he was experiencing something he had never come close to experiencing. He didn't and doesn't know how to handle it. He went to therapy with me and alone in the beginning but doesn't go now. 

It has resulted in him avoiding parts of my body and me making sure he avoids those parts of my body. I feel more comfortable showing those areas to my doctors than my husband. Sometimes I feel comfortable enough to go out in a tank top or similar that shows some back, but if I were like that at home and my husband comes home, I cover up immediately. I don't want to upset him. 

Control is really hard for me. Not being able to control what goes on in his head, or how he reacts or feels. I have a hard time being in situations that I can't control or predict.

I was upset last night when I was writing so some of my words might have come out the wrong way. 

"Sometimes I wish I had died instead. It feels like it would have been easier for everyone." - That is still pretty correct. That desire isn't high enough that I'm not longer walking the planet. There has been a lot (maybe once a month nowadays) of contemplation but no attempts. I say "wish" because I never wanted to live. When I was taken to the hospital it was by ambulance and I remember thinking that I hoped I'd die. I had a surgery and afterwards was in and out of sleep for a few days, every time I work up I wondered why because I did not want to be alive. I remember a doctor saying something about me and that I was fighting to be alive, all I could think was... no, no I'm not. 

"My husband has the option to hold me, but he doesn't really want to." - That was written incorrectly. He does want to, he's a very cuddly, physical guy (or was). The way we can cuddle or be close feels limited because I feel the need to keep certain body parts away from him. Lately he has been very distant. Sleeping on the couch, not wanting to touch me at all, not wanting to spend time together, not coming home until very late. So _lately_ he "has the option to hold me, but he doesn't really want to".

"He doesn't want to work on it, and I don't think I'm worth it to him." - I mean, he stopped going to therapy alone and as a couple. He doesn't want to work on it anymore, at least with doctors and therapists. He has essentially given up and in his own words said it wasn't going to get any better. If I wasn't worth it he wouldn't have stuck around this long, that was emotions talking. Worth has nothing to do with it, he just _seems_ to have given up.

I'm sorry, that was way longer than I intended it to be.


----------



## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Picpea

You can say anything you want, and change anything you want. And type as long as you want. Nothing is too long.

This medium is distant, impersonal, but the least we can do is offer to listen to all you wish to say, and any way you wish to say it.


----------



## picpea (Apr 17, 2017)

@mary35

What you wrote felt very familiar. It hurt, to read, but it wasn't surprising to read I suppose. 

I know that my husband suffered and is suffering as well. I don't ever want to downplay how he feels so if I have, I haven't meant to. I feel terrible that he hurts "because of me" so I can sort of understand how he feels. 

I didn't remember it until you mentioned it but in the first year after my assault my husband did say things like he could make it better, love conquers all and that he wanted to "fix" me. He had never gone through anything even remotely bad in his life, he didn't know that he couldn't fix this. So you are probably right that now he is realizing he can't fix it and is lost and overwhelmed. He still holds a lot of anger towards the men who did it. He has always had more anger towards them than me, I think. 

I don't want to feel like I'm causing my husband pain. I have always felt that if he had walked away, yes he would still hurt but not this much. He wouldn't have the reminders, he could have moved on at least to some degree. He could have found someone else by now, had the life he wanted. Which kills me to think about. 

I feel like, if I give up my husband then I have nothing left. _They_ won, they got everything. Everything in my life changed, he has been my only constant and I hold onto him for dear life. 

He is a good man and I feel like I am destroying him. I feel like I shouldn't have had him in the first place and now I've ruined his life. I know it's not my fault, but I still go there. Turning him into a man who "cheats" or almost hits a woman, those are the type of people he has gotten into physical fights with for disrespecting women. Now he (probably) feels like he is one of them. Some of that is on me, like giving him a free pass for outside sex. Which I honestly thought would or could help us. I never in a million years actually wanted that. 

He has said, words from his own mouth, that he would feel worse leaving me because of the type of person that would make him and because it wouldn't be fair to me that he could move on and I couldn't. He goes on a PTSD forum sometimes, I'm not sure if he still does but he did a lot years ago. He read a lot of stories about a couple splitting up and the other party killing themselves or going very deep into a dark hole. He fears that. I may wonder why I'm still here, or sometimes when I take medication for a moment I think I could just take the whole bottle and be done with it, but I would never actually go there. I haven't yet. 

I feel like if we call it quits, even just for a break, that's the end of us. That he will see that life can be better and not want this life again. Or that he won't feel bad because he didn't end it and won't have any desire to come back, maybe he just needs me to cut the cord. I can see him being happy with someone else, he could have everything that he wanted. I can't see myself ever being with someone else... Because if I can't do it with my husband who I love and loved before this happened, I won't be able to do it with someone else, a stranger. He's the only one that I want to be with... Letting go of him is terrifying, upsetting and feelings lonely before it's even happened. In my heart, I know if I let him go then he isn't coming back...


----------



## Yag-Kosha (Sep 8, 2016)

picpea said:


> It has resulted in him avoiding parts of my body and me making sure he avoids those parts of my body. I feel more comfortable showing those areas to my doctors than my husband. Sometimes I feel comfortable enough to go out in a tank top or similar that shows some back, but if I were like that at home and my husband comes home, I cover up immediately. I don't want to upset him.


I think you sound really defeated from what I've read so far. I feel that way sometimes when my depression gets into full gear. It can be difficult to snap out of. But you need to mentally tell the world to 'feck off, this is my body now, either deal with it or piss off.' And that goes for your husband. We don't get stronger by hiding our demons. We need slap them around a bit. So go outside, wearing whatever you want and wear the same around your husband. Hiding yourself from him and others is just giving power to your scars and your negative body image.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think letting him go . . . could open the door to eventually bring the right person into your life, someone who could love and nurture you exactly as you are, trauma and all.

So, so, so sorry for the injustice that was done to you, picpea.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Stop apologizing. Write, write and write and keep writing, but apologizing...that you should stop doing. 




picpea said:


> @Anon Pink
> I don't like to say that my trauma was worse than someone else's, they are all bad. Sometimes I find myself sinking into a pity party when I let myself think that my experience was worse than other people who try to help me. I get into a _no one understands, no one has been there, no one can help_ mindset. It also makes me feel like I'm downplaying other people's experiences and interpretations.
> 
> I want to have sex for me, for us. I enjoyed sex once upon a time. I guess I could call it a benefit that I did have sex before and did enjoy it. I can barely remember it, but I know I enjoyed it and I know it can be fun and connecting. I want to feel like a woman again. I want to connect with my husband. If my husband would be fully content either way, I would still want it.


So sex is a goal post for you. It means the old you is still there. The woman who lead a full and carefree life is alive. She IS still there and alive but she is different. Different happens because life happens, if it wasn't one thing it could have been another thing. This woman today, having difficulty feeling all that she wants to feel is a woman in transition, not the end result.






> I don't get turned on and feel like I need him right then and there. It physically hurts to get the physical feelings associated with being turned on so my body doesn't go there or all bets are off. I want him because I want to be close to him and no amount of cuddling or kissing satisfies that need. There is no pleasure from it so it isn't a physical pleasure seeking thing anymore, more emotional...


If I understand this correctly, being aroused caused physical pain? The pain prevents your body from remaining aroused or building arousal. I assume the pain is due to the genital swelling associated with arousal and this swelling pulls on scar tissue. You've mentioned your body builds scar tissue abundantly and this is problematic because an over-produced scar not only causes pain, but it prevents positive sensation as well. 

Physically, arousal is something you probably should avoid until you've seen enough specialists and had the scar removal surgeries. I don't know if you live in the US, it doesn't sound like though. There are various victims foundations that will help fund corrective surgeries. If that's not an avenue, I highly encourage you to place corrective surgery on the priority list. Above almost everything else. 

Your husband probably can't bring himself to seek sex with you because he knows it would cause you pain. You must know that about your husband, right? The thought that sex means you're in pain and there is nothing he can do to prevent that pain would make him averse to having sex with you. He would avoid it stronger than you might avoid it.



> My husband... he is a good man. He is very sensitive. There was a period after my trauma that all I felt was pain and fear. I didn't cry, unless it was from pain. I didn't get upset, I didn't laugh or smile. I didn't talk. I was essentially emotionless. I didn't feel human. My husband was an emotional wreck during that time, which was to be expected. I don't know where I was going with that, I guess that sometimes my husband has seemed to be more affected than me. I love my husband, and he has done his best to support me. He doesn't know every detail (not that he needs to) because he couldn't handle it (he made that decision not me). When I had to testify in court he left the room part way through.
> 
> His biggest problem is "mind movies". From what he does know he replays it over and over in his head and his imagination gets the best of filling in the blanks. Unfortunately the reality isn't any better. He does NOT look at my body or touch my body and think it is disgusting. What he DOES do is look at a scar or touch a scar and think about what happened to cause that. And can't get that out of his mind. Hearing the words "when I touch you there I imagine you being ______" was not easy to hear.
> 
> ...



Now see, here is where I'm going to totally disagree with you. He's not a good man if you have to hide the truth of what you went through to save his sensitive disposition. If you could survive having it don't to you, he can damn well survive knowing exactly what the **** was done!!!! 

God this pisses me off! You lived it! You were there! It ****ing happened to you! And he can't even know too many details? Sit his ass down and give him a play by play because if your marriage has any hope, and frankly I'm doubting it right now, you have to stop protecting him and start relying on his strength. Do you realize you are HIS strength instead of him being yours?

Mr. Picpea needs to man the **** up!




> I feel more comfortable showing those areas to my doctors than my husband. Sometimes I feel comfortable enough to go out in a tank top or similar that shows some back, but if I were like that at home and my husband comes home, I cover up immediately. I *don't want to upset him. *


Too damn bad! Because you survived you have scars. If you had died, there would be no scars and your body would be decomposing. Morbid, right? But true none the less. You survived. If he can't bear to look upon the evidence that you didn't die he is missing the fact that...you didn't die. You survived. 

Stop hiding your scars.
Stop protecting your husband.
You survived something horrific. He can survive knowing it.





> Control is really hard for me. Not being able to control what goes on in his head, or how he reacts or feels. I have a hard time being in situations that I can't control or predict.


Do you feel this need to control the thoughts and feelings of everyone around you? Are you familiar with the terms "co-dependent" and "enabling?"

I get that you need to feel safe and not being able to predict how he reacts might trigger you to feel unsafe, but there is a difference between needing to feel safe even though he may be upset and needing to feel that he won't ever be upset. Live happens and people get upset. Traffic, crappy bosses, dogs pooping on lawns...upsetting but not unsafe. 

Unsafe, meaning you feel endangered physically or emotionally. You have always felt unsafe, emotionally, with your husband because you filter what details he knows about your trauma. Because you filter for him, because you edit for him, because you smooth out as many things as you can for him so he doesn't get upset, it means you don't trust him. You don't trust that him being upset, angry, raging, about what happened to you won't harm you in some way. And that doesn't make sense does it? 

Do you really think if he knew the details his reaction would endanger you in any way? 





> I was upset last night when I was writing so some of my words might have come out the wrong way.
> 
> "Sometimes I wish I had died instead. It feels like it would have been easier for everyone." - That is still pretty correct. That desire isn't high enough that I'm not longer walking the planet. There has been a lot (maybe once a month nowadays) of contemplation but no attempts. I say "wish" because I never wanted to live. When I was taken to the hospital it was by ambulance and I remember thinking that I hoped I'd die. I had a surgery and afterwards was in and out of sleep for a few days, every time I work up I wondered why because I did not want to be alive. I remember a doctor saying something about me and that I was fighting to be alive, all I could think was... no, no I'm not.



But you didn't die. You survived and now you need to live. 

Surviving means you didn't die. Living means your life has meaning.




> "My husband has the option to hold me, but he doesn't really want to." - That was written incorrectly. He does want to, he's a very cuddly, physical guy (or was). The way we can cuddle or be close feels limited because I feel the need to keep certain body parts away from him. Lately he has been very distant. Sleeping on the couch, not wanting to touch me at all, not wanting to spend time together, not coming home until very late. So _lately_ he "has the option to hold me, but he doesn't really want to".
> 
> "He doesn't want to work on it, and I don't think I'm worth it to him." - I mean, he stopped going to therapy alone and as a couple. He doesn't want to work on it anymore, at least with doctors and therapists. He has essentially given up and in his own words said it wasn't going to get any better. If I wasn't worth it he wouldn't have stuck around this long, that was emotions talking. Worth has nothing to do with it, he just _seems_ to have given up.
> 
> I'm sorry, that was way longer than I intended it to be.




What would you say if I insisted you tell your husband every detail and start showering with him?

Everytime you hide yourself, you stop living. Every time you buy into this absurd idea that your husband needs your protection, you stop living.



You came here to try to save your marriage and like almost everyone here, myself included, are discovering that to save your marriage you must first save yourself. To heal your marriage you must first heal yourself.

Don't hide
Don't protect 
Don't pretend


----------



## picpea (Apr 17, 2017)

@WilliamM

I haven't read into or done any type of looking at FGM. It is a massive trigger for me, even just reading FGM spelled out fully. As soon as I saw it in what you wrote I debated reading it at all. Nothing bad towards you, it's just extremely difficult for me. I saw it soon after you posted it but just couldn't fully read it or respond. Again, nothing bad against you and I know there is another reply written closer to the end that mentions it as well so I need to prepare myself before I go down there. 

That is an interesting note about counsellors, though it does make sense. Finding the right one is hard... I need to keep trying. 

Every time I write something I think that I'm just going to write a little snippet, then I'm done and it's a long, blabbering, rambling, mess. It does help a bit, though.

@oldshirt

You are right that we are not the same people that we were before. If I were to describe him and myself before and after, without using physical traits it probably wouldn't look like the same people. I don't want to sound like a broken record from my last post so I won't repeat my sob story on not wanting to let him go... 

I can't imagine myself ever being with another man or being intimate with another man. It scares me to think about. I don't know how I could start over with someone else and go through this over again. I've got to a point where everyone in my bubble knows to some degree what happened. I hated having to explain myself to people, even a little. 

I can't help but think that if my husband didn't want to be with me or couldn't then no one could. If I was with someone else I for some reason that man was easier to be with, especially sexually, I would feel absolutely terrible.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

picpea said:


> @mary35
> 
> What you wrote felt very familiar. It hurt, to read, but it wasn't surprising to read I suppose.
> 
> ...



This is heart breaking. You are carrying everything on your shoulders and it doesn't belong on your shoulders.

Can you show this to your husband? Can he know the very intimate details of how worthless you feel because he can't handle what happened to you?

You're in a really bad place right now, but it won't last. I promise it won't stay bad.


----------



## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

Hi @picpea

I'm not sure I can offer much to you but I just wanted to say that I truly admire your courage. You have been through such a trauma and yet you are still here... still fighting to get better. You are a warrior.

I am a CSA survivor ... nothing as brutal as what you must have endured but I am truly touched by your story and I do hope that you can find a way to a happier path.

My dad had a drinking buddy that would come over once a week. I was sent to give them fresh beers when dad hollered up the stairs for another round. Inevitably dad would pass out, and his buddy would make his move on me. He'd sit me on his lap... call me his little girlfriend, touch me and eventually force me to perform oral for him. 

He threatened me if I were to tell... made me fear waking my father if I made too much fuss or cried too loudly. I was 7-9 years old and crying while feeling suffocated by a drunk smelly adult was terrifying. To this day that smell of beer and sweat and cigarettes makes me want to vomit.

My scars were only emotional, but they were awful.

When I finally dated, my first 2 relationships ended because I would not give BJs... I just couldn't do it. One BF used it to humiliate me by announcing loudly to friends how great I was at it (knowing I wouldn't) ... he ended up dumping me over it. The other BF cheated on me to get his BJs from other girls that were willing.

When I left for college my anxiety got the better of me and I started having awful flashbacks and nightmares. I would wake up in the middle of the night gasping for air reliving that suffocating feeling. 

Through all of that time, even though I had tried to pleasure myself I could not reach orgasm. The build up sensations reminded me of that uncomfortable stomach drop feeling I would get when my abuser would grope me and I would just shut down completely. I felt so broken... I just wanted to be normal.

Since my sleep disturbances were getting so bad I had to leave school on a medical leave... I just could not function. I finally sought help with a great therapist who specialized in CSA and rape survivors. 

She helped me work through the abuse first... what happened, the shame, the fear, the anger, the triggers. After I was strong enough then she moved into the sex therapy to help me learn to love myself.

It was really hard but I did get there after a lot of work. I can now not only climax but multiples. I could give a loving BJ under the right conditions (I still prefer it to be my idea, and I cannot handle it being rough or firm pressure on my head) but a light caressing touch I enjoy. 

But the biggest thing is I actually like giving that pleasure now. And a huge part of that was from when I met Mr HB after all that therapy I told him everything. He knew every detail. I needed him to accept what had happened since there were still triggers occasionally and how could he be sensitive to them if he didn't know? 

Anyway, I just wanted to share that I understand a little of what you're going through... and please don't give up. You are still you and you are not ruining your H. He has choices too.

He needs to accept what happened to you and come to terms one way or another. But you cannot protect him anymore than he could protect you. It is possible, if he is weak, that he may not be able to handle it all once he knows everything. And that's ok, because you deserve someone who can and will.

You are a survivor... a warrior battling her way out of hell. Don't give up now.

Gentle (((hugs))) to you @picpea. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

picpea said:


> @mary35
> 
> What you wrote felt very familiar. It hurt, to read, but it wasn't surprising to read I suppose.
> 
> ...


I understand! You are not in a place to let go right now! I wish the best for you and your husband and hope you can find the answers you need to make your relationship work for the both of you! Cyber HUG!


----------



## picpea (Apr 17, 2017)

My husband wants a divorce... I don't know where to go from here or how to live. I feel frozen. I can't even think. Or breathe.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

picpea said:


> My husband wants a divorce... I don't know where to go from here or how to live. I feel frozen. I can't even think. Or breathe.




Try to see this as an opportunity, a fresh start. Your husband tried for 7 years but has run into the limits of his ability. So now you can take time for yourself without pressure and work on yourself. Grow until you're ready to be in a relationship again, if you can. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

This is an opportunity for you to heal yourself, taking on the burden of fixing yourself. You can do this. We all have our demons, some more scary than others. 

Let me tell you, killing yourself is not an option. That's only allowing them to win. You need to continue to fight . Get all the help you can. You can win this. 

I pray that you will be successful and find your freedom. Many blessings.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

picpea said:


> My husband wants a divorce... I don't know where to go from here or how to live. I feel frozen. I can't even think. Or breathe.


God works in mysterious ways. You will make it through this and find yourself in a much better emotional place. You need to focus on your needs and your emotional healing. If he is serious about divorce, you need to talk to an attorney to find out your rights under state or provincial law and what are typical settlements in your area.

This is a time where you need to take care of your needs and future. 

Another thing is that often people who threaten divorce do not really mean it. In your case, it may be a blessing to allow you the space you need to emotionally heal.

Good luck to you.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

picpea said:


> My husband wants a divorce... I don't know where to go from here or how to live. I feel frozen. I can't even think. Or breathe.


I'm sorry. I'm sure this frightens you. But I am convinced you will not heal while married to this man. You put far more energy into soothing him than you put into healing and loving yourself. I personally think your husband should have waited for you to come to this conclusion or come closer to it but his actions have shown he is more protective of his feelings than he is of yours. 

Imagine a marriage in which your husband isn't hurt by or afraid of your scars?
Imagine a marriage in which your husband makes you feel whole, rather than remind you that you're not?


I'm so sorry picpea.


----------



## picpea (Apr 17, 2017)

I've already lost everything. I don't ever want another relationship. If I wasn't good enough for my husband and my husband couldn't deal with it no one else could. I'd rather be a monk. 

He just didn't come home... And a 3 days later texted me and said "I can't do it anymore. I want a divorce. I'm not coming back." I lost anything left that matters through a text message... I wasn't even worth a real conversation.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

picpea said:


> I've already lost everything. I don't ever want another relationship. If I wasn't good enough for my husband and my husband couldn't deal with it no one else could. I'd rather be a monk.
> 
> He just didn't come home... And a 3 days later texted me and said "I can't do it anymore. I want a divorce. I'm not coming back." I lost anything left that matters through a text message... I wasn't even worth a real conversation.


This is terrible and I am very sorry. Your life is not over though. I think you are very wrong, there are men who may be able to deal, and may even be more equipped to help you.


----------



## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

picpea said:


> I've already lost everything. I don't ever want another relationship. If I wasn't good enough for my husband and my husband couldn't deal with it no one else could. I'd rather be a monk.
> 
> He just didn't come home... And a 3 days later texted me and said "I can't do it anymore. I want a divorce. I'm not coming back." I lost anything left that matters through a text message... I wasn't even worth a real conversation.


I am so very sorry picpea! You are right that was a really crappy way for him to tell you! 

Do you have anyone you can turn to now? Any family or friends? Any therapist or support groups? Please turn to someone and do not stay in your house alone for awhile! Please find someone to stay with you or go stay with them! 

I know you are hurting and everything looks bleak right now! I wish I could take the pain from you for awhile, but I can't. All I can do is send a cyber hug over the internet. But please know there are people here that really do care about you! 
I am sure there are many who are physically close to you who also really care about you! Turn to them and let them help you get through this dark time! If not, keep posting here and let us help you get through it. I know you can't see it now, but there is still light in your life. Don't give up hope, one day you will finally come out of the darkness and will be able to see it! 

Huge cyber hug!!!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

picpea said:


> I've already lost everything. I don't ever want another relationship. If I wasn't good enough for my husband and my husband couldn't deal with it no one else could. I'd rather be a monk.
> 
> He just didn't come home... And a 3 days later texted me and said "I can't do it anymore. I want a divorce. I'm not coming back." I lost anything left that matters through a text message... I wasn't even worth a real conversation.


A text? He sent a text! A text?

No it wasn't a real conversation. You are worth much more. He is the one who isn't worthy!

To have lived through what you lived through, takes a very strong person. 

To not even face you as he ended his marriage shows what an obvious coward he is. He knows he is a weak man. He probably likes to think he cared so much about you that he couldn't handle seeing the marks left from the attack but the real truth is that he didn't have the strength to see them. I'm sure he loved you and probably still does. But he is a weak man and most men are not weak. 

He never helped you heal. He relied on your strength and in doing so he robbed you of the strength you needed to heal. Had your lives not taken this drastic turn after the attack you would have still woken up one day and discovered you have no respect for your husband because he is so weak he relies upon your strength. 

He abandoned you because he is too weak to help you.


----------



## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

I agree. I know it does not feel this way right now, but you are well rid of him. Lonely. But now unburdened by him dragging you down.

As others have said, take this time to work on yourself. Accept yourself. Love yourself. Then you will be ready for a man who loves you, and you will be able to return his love.

I am sorry your current husband was not that man. But that man is out there.


----------



## DEGROW (Apr 27, 2017)

Wow... Console her if you must, but please leave the guy out of this... That guy didn't signed up for that ****, and for surviving that long for 8 years, trying out everything he can, hats off to him. He is still human after all, he is not God. A man can't do everything, only a fairy tale would tell you so.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

DEGROW said:


> Wow... Console her if you must, but please leave the guy out of this... That guy didn't signed up for that ****, and for surviving that long for 8 years, trying out everything he can, hats off to him. He is still human after all, he is not God. A man can't do everything, only a fairy tale would tell you so.


Nope sorry the husband is a weak man. And yes he did sign up for it. They didn't get married until well after the attack. So yes, he signed up for being a part of the healing process. Unfortunately he put no energy into his own healing so he could be a part of her healing. He figured all would be well once she could enjoy sex again. Don't know how he thought that could happen if he could never look upon her scars. The man's a coward.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Nope sorry the husband is a weak man. And yes he did sign up for it. They didn't get married until well after the attack. So yes, he signed up for being a part of the healing process. Unfortunately he put no energy into his own healing so he could be a part of her healing. He figured all would be well once she could enjoy sex again. Don't know how he thought that could happen if he could never look upon her scars. The man's a coward.


Since there is no 'dislike' button...

You are going a bit far here, I understand being more empathetic to the female etc. but a bit far. 

Sure, he didn't live up to your superman expectations. He made a mistake, thought he could handle it and the brave thing to do was to stand by her and get married. Unfortunately he was wrong. Just a really ****ty situation all around.


----------



## Joyfull (Apr 27, 2017)

"These scars are a story of where I have been, not where I am nor who I am, but where I am going and what I have overcome. They are a story of my courage and my strength to fight back and regain control of my life. Strength, courage and life are never something to be ashamed of. The longer I hid the more power my abusers had. Silence gives them strength. Silence feeds them. Do not be silent. Do not hide. Be proud that you beat them. YOU won.? 

This quote from Kale is a great place to start. I'm encouraging you to FIGHT for you!!! This horrible event is stealing your life. Your life, your existence is greater, bigger. Fight, fight, fight. Regain You. Put that horrible event in its place. Under you!!! Not hoarding over you!

Now that your husband has checked out also let that be a catalyst to overcome! Your life is not over. Every single day is a new opportunity to find you. To live out the life you desire. Don't let the horrible event win. Don't let the failings in your marriage win. You have power on the inside of you to rise above it all. You just have to find it and build on it. Your life is greater. You are greater. 

Seek victory. I truly believe that it's in you. It was before this. It's not gone just needs to be feed. Find your strength. It exist!!! Fight!!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

anonmd said:


> Since there is no 'dislike' button...
> 
> You are going a bit far here, I understand being more empathetic to the female etc. but a bit far.
> 
> Sure, he didn't live up to your superman expectations. He made a mistake, thought he could handle it and the brave thing to do was to stand by her and get married. Unfortunately he was wrong. Just a really ****ty situation all around.


I agree it's a really ****ty situation all around.

How many women hate their stretch marks? The extra weight they can't lose after the baby? Getting grey hairs and seeing wrinkles? What every woman wants from her husband is reassurance that none of those things prevent him from seeing his wife as the attractive woman he married. That's not news to you, nor to anyone else here at TAM or even the big wide world. A woman's body changes and she is self conscious and unsure and her husband knows to reassure her. Right?

And yet here we have a very different kind of body change but a body change none the less and the husband not only failed to reassure her, he doubled down by not being able to look upon her scars. 

If you think that can be excused because it's a ****ty situation all around you are mistaken in your belief about what women need from their husbands.

Secondarily, the brave thing for the husband to do would have been to work therapy and learn to forgive himself so that he could step up and be his wife's support. But he failed.

He had an opportunity to rethink marriage after the attack and he decided to go with it because he couldn't imagine himself as the kind of guy who doesn't stand by his woman when she is in need. So he was all about appearances but put nothing behind it.

That is the very definition of weak IMHO.


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

See, that first sentence added a hint of compassion. I remove my 'dislike'


----------



## DEGROW (Apr 27, 2017)

@Anon Pink, Stretch marks are very different from sexual abuse scars. The former speaks happiness, while the latter speaks sadness. That guy was brave to marry her, but he wasn't prepared, which was a foolish thing to do. No women would marry a guy that was broken. That guy tried maintaining his vows for the first few years, but after not seeing any results, he lost hope. That's when thing went downhill from there on, with both of them opening up their marriage and so on. In fact, when his wife opened up the door and let him have sex with other women, that itself was symbolic. It was a symbol of the breaking of the covenant between a husband and his wife. He probably lost himself at that point, not being able to differentiate between a husband or a cheater. That was why he couldn't go on anymore, because the more it goes on, the more he loses himself. 

That guy wasn't prepared, he had an easy life since young, that's why you don't spoil your children.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

DEGROW said:


> @Anon Pink, Stretch marks are very different from sexual abuse scars. The former speaks happiness, while the latter speaks sadness. That guy was brave to marry her, but he wasn't prepared, which was a foolish thing to do. No women would marry a guy that was broken. That guy tried maintaining his vows for the first few years, but after not seeing any results, he lost hope. That's when thing went downhill from there on, with both of them opening up their marriage and so on. In fact, when his wife opened up the door and let him have sex with other women, that itself was symbolic. It was a symbol of the breaking of the covenant between a husband and his wife. He probably lost himself at that point, not being able to differentiate between a husband or a cheater. That was why he couldn't go on anymore, because the more it goes on, the more he loses himself.
> 
> That guy wasn't prepared, he had an easy life since young, that's why you don't spoil your children.



It doesn't matter why a scar is present, or how it got there, if it affects how a woman feels about herself, about her body, makes her self conscious and inhibited about getting naked, the man who wants her to be naked with him had better be able to honestly look past, look beyond, and convince her she remains the beautiful woman he married. 

I find it hard to believe this idiot couldn't get beyond his own issues to help his wife. The need for a husband to convince his wife her mastectomy scars, lumpectomy scars, biopsy scars, and all the tubes and crap all over her chest...scars from a not pleasant event.... are not affecting how he sees her, is like basic husband 101. 

"I am about to marry a woman I love dearly who was recently a victim of a brutal traumatic rape that nearly killed her. She has emotional scars, of course, and she has physical scars. I am prepared to help her through this because I will be patient about getting laid." 
What an idiot! 

It doesn't matter that he led a charmed life and never had to face a hardship. Everyone gets to have life smack the **** out of them at some point and most are unprepared. We deal with it, we learn how to deal with it. We figure out what we need to know in order to make it better. This husband did none of that. The next time life smacks the **** out him, he will probably continue to fail not because he was pampered, but because he lacks fortitude and uses excuses and blames others instead of looking in the mirror.

At the age of 54, I have decided I don't want people like that in my life. They suck you dry because they can't cope. OP spent her marriage trying to make things easier for her poor wittle wee baby husband. And he shows his lack of mettle by hooking up with someone else and then texting her for a divorce. OP will be so much better off with out this man.


----------

