# Help!



## Runcible Spoon (Nov 4, 2021)

Ok, 
This is going to be a long post..
Firstly my wife is 11years younger than me, I'm 49 and she's 38).
For about the last 4 years or so I've begun to notice a change in her (I should mention that we have two children 5 & 7).
I think my my wife wants or has had an affair with another man in our friendship group. My reasons are as follows:
Group photos - virtually every single group photo, she is next to him, kneeling below him ( and not next to me- the rest of the couples in our friendship group are normally together).

Group outings- when as a group we go out they seem to naturally didn't together. We have an annual camping trip and they always seem to be facing each other round the campfire it hanging back to talk to each other on walks,etc.

Funny anecdotes - my wife on numerous occasions wanders around the house quietly repeating to herself funny anecdotes that this other man has said previously.

They have similar music tastes and as a group - myself, my wife, his wife and him have all been to music festivals together in the past.
About a month ago she got a text from this man asking if she wanted to go, and if she did he would say to his wife not to come with him.
When my wife joking challenged him and said why don't you want to take your wife- he stated that they weren't interested on going( I knew nothing about this btw and only found out by having a peek at my Dw's phone).She didn't go.

Body language, she always seems to be closeby or standing fully opposite him the conversation always seems to be closed.

Phone use- my wife always seems to be on her phone! I have challenged her about it in the past, and now she getsse angry about if I ask her about it ' I get **** from you about it all the time'

A general lack of interest in what I'm doing, no saying I love you unless I say it first (we've been married 9 years, been with each other for 16)
No initiation of intimacy, no holding hands unless I hold intiate it.

So,I have challenged my wife on this and apart from being upset and angry has told me nothing is going on. She's not interested in anyone else and that I issues with self esteem ( I do in some part admittedly).

She's also stated that she also had had conversations with this man's wife (her friend now) and they have both said nothing is going on.

However this man has previously cheated on his wife, seems to get on with women more( I get on with him on a very superficial level).

There's a few other situations where I think boundaries have been crossed but I want to keep this as short as possible. 

I don't want to leave my wife but I can't seem to get round it, my wife's already said that she'll choose her friends over her me, we haven't really tried marriage counselling as she thinks everything is ok?

Help please!


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

Hi Runcible Spoon,



Runcible Spoon said:


> About a month ago she got a text from this man asking if she wanted to go, and if she did he would say to his wife not to come with him.
> When my wife joking *challenged him and said why don't you want to take your wife- he stated that they weren't interested on going( I knew nothing about this btw and only found out by having a peek at my Dw's phone).She didn't go.
> 
> However this man has previously cheated on his wife, seems to get on with women more( I get on with him on a very superficial level).*


In a private message exchange your wife challenged him on why he wasn't taking his wife, and without you knowing so also didn't end up going herself. I'm not convinced that's how such an exchange would happen if there was something going on.

And then you say that he has previously cheated on his wife. Could it be that these observations you are making is actually this guy making a play for your wife, that he's engineering some of this? and that they are not of her making and she's not interested in making it more?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Runcible Spoon said:


> my wife's already said that she'll choose her friends over her me,


Well, isn't that just peachy? She stood before God and witnesses and promised to choose you over them. Your wife is liar. She's most likely also a cheater. All liars are not necessarily cheaters, but all cheaters are necessarily liars.

And, if she doesn't respect God, she surely isn't going to respect you.....lack of respect is where ALL affairs begin. Entitlement.



Runcible Spoon said:


> being upset and angry has told me nothing is going on. She's not interested in anyone else and that I issues with self esteem ( I do in some part admittedly).


Cheater's handbook, 1st edition, chapter 2. "Blame the Betrayed".
Cheater's handbook, 1st edition, chapter 1. "Lie to Your Betrayed"
Cheater's handbook, 1st edition, chapter 3. "Gaslighting".



Runcible Spoon said:


> she also had had conversations with this man's wife (her friend now)


Cheater's handbook, 1st edition, chapter 6. "Pretend to be a Friend of the Enemy".



Runcible Spoon said:


> as she thinks everything is ok?


No, she just bloody well knows that a good marriage counselor will root out her true behaviors before the first session is half over.

Now is the time for you to stop giving a rat's a$$ what she "thinks". Do not let your wife gaslight you into believing this is "your fault". It's NOT. This is ALL ON HER. HER CHOICES, HER BEHAVIORS.

It's time for.........THE 180.

And..........Stupid **** Cheaters Say Stupid **** Cheaters Say - ChumpLady.com
(Edited because the original Chump Lady URL was trapped by the site Word Filter)


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

MarmiteC said:


> my wife's already said that she'll choose her friends over her me, we haven't really tried marriage counselling as she thinks everything is ok?


This is all you pretty much need to know and everything you have listed is a woman who is no longer connected to you, assuming she ever was.


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## Runcible Spoon (Nov 4, 2021)

MarmiteC said:


> Hi Runcible Spoon,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks MarmiteC, 
I had thought about him engineering the situation and think that this most likely the case however, my wife on some level is reciprocating his advances ( she doesn't have anything similar with any other of the men in or friendship group). 
There's plenty more what I would call proof - we been out to clubs and she's more interested in dancing with him rather than any of the group or me. Or the fact that she wanted a tattoo on her wrist similar to his wife?!?!
I really don't want to leave but to quote
' there's three people in this marriage'


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## MarmiteC (Jun 28, 2021)

Runcible Spoon said:


> Thanks MarmiteC,
> I had thought about him engineering the situation and think that this most likely the case however, my wife on some level is reciprocating his advances ( she doesn't have anything similar with any other of the men in or friendship group).
> There's plenty more what I would call proof - we been out to clubs and she's more interested in dancing with him rather than any of the group or me. Or the fact that she wanted a tattoo on her wrist similar to his wife?!?!
> I really don't want to leave but to quote
> ' there's three people in this marriage'


She's certainly not acting in a way that is reasonable for you to accept. Have you outright asked her what is going on? You have every right to lay down your boundaries if she is stepping past them.
Do you love her? Do you want to try to resolve this? Or have you already reached the point she's pushed you too far and it's time to leave?


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

TJW said:


> Well, isn't that just peachy? She stood before God and witnesses and promised to choose you over them. Your wife is liar. She's most likely also a cheater. All liars are not necessarily cheaters, but all cheaters are necessarily liars.
> 
> And, if she doesn't respect God, she surely isn't going to respect you.....lack of respect is where ALL affairs begin. Entitlement.
> 
> ...


This sums it up. If your wife wasn't doing anything and cared about you she'd be doing her best to show you. There's a saying in writing "show, don't tell". Ignore her words and focus on her actions.


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## Runcible Spoon (Nov 4, 2021)

MarmiteC said:


> She's certainly not acting in a way that is reasonable for you to accept. Have you outright asked her what is going on? You have every right to lay down your boundaries if she is stepping past them.
> Do you love her? Do you want to try to resolve this? Or have you already reached the point she's pushed you too far and it's time to leave?


Hi again, 
I love her. However I can't see how we can work past this issue. She's already said that she won't give up her friends, so..
Funnily enough again we talked briefly talked about boundaries but not yet concluded. She doesn't believe that she's done anything wrong and thinks that I have a low self esteem problem. I agree in some part that I do. I think she's just beginning to realise how much the situation has affected my mental health and how it's jepodising my job and home life. I wish I could make her see from my point of view.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Runcible Spoon said:


> my wife's already said that she'll choose her friends over her me,


The above quote is good enough to me to end the marriage. People that have self respect and dignity don't put up with this type of disrespect. Moreover, your guts and observations of her behavior is telling you that your're right; which would be good enough for me. Even if she's not cheating with this dude, she's into him, that's clear as water. Another good enough for me to get out of the relationship. 



Runcible Spoon said:


> I love her.


You loving her has nothing to do with the situation. What matter here is that she's at minimum into another dude, and the disrespect toward you should be a deal breaker if things are as you said.
We all have boundaries (most of all anyway), and if your partner is not willing to accept the boundaries that you are asking to respect, then you are in an incompatible relationship and the best thing to do is to part ways and find someone that is compatible with you. 

All I can say is that you will not achieve anything if all you do is ***** and moan about it. Actions is what gets you results. As long as you don't act, she will continue in the same path until the day come when you'll eventually hear the famous "ILYBINILWY", and you get dumped.



Runcible Spoon said:


> I had thought about him engineering the situation and think that this most likely the case however, my wife on some level is reciprocating his advances


His actions shouldn't matter to you. Your wife's responses to him is what should matter. He did not make any promises or any pact with you, your wife did, so do not fall for directing your energies and blames toward him.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Runcible Spoon just checking in with you. How are things?


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## Runcible Spoon (Nov 4, 2021)

HI MattMatt,
I am still currently with my wife and things seem on balance better. I spoke to my wife and told her that I had sought legal advice on our marriage ( which I have) it seems to has changed her mind?
I'm still unsure but, i have had counselling as well which has helped. I think i am ready to move on if needs be.

Thanks for asking.

Damian


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

That's good to hear, @Runcible Spoon. Very, very cool user name, by the way.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Runcible Spoon said:


> it seems to has changed her mind?


Cheater's Handbook, Chapter 11. "BS takes action ? Go farther underground with your affair....hide it better...."


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

I don't think she's cheated yet but she's on a slippery slope with a slippery guy. 

Did you ask her what they talk about or why they hang back by themselves?

It's actually pretty common that they refuse to voluntarily give up their 'friends' (because she she enjoys his attention) unless - they have to choose between marriage and being single again.

Zero tolerance for contact with this guy and making moves to exit the relationship sends a strong message that she's facing consequences for her behavior. Don't argue who's right because she'll never agree with you. 

In view of her behavior with the OM plus her lack of empathy for you and overall resistance - I suggest you insist on zero contact with the adulterer. No more sitting next to him; or chatting one on one; or hanging back walking together; and no texting/social media/phone calls.

It's not controlling unless you object to every guy friend; and it's not controlling to protect something you value from an adulterer. His wife can forgive/forget him - but you don't have to.

If he needs someone to talk to - tough why should you care. And if she claims to need a man to talk to other than her husband - shame on her.


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