# Learning to Trust Again



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

After ending a 24 year marriage which took me 5 years of counseling to get out of, I started dating not quite a year ago. I dated a gentleman for several months which ended and am now dating again. I find myself doing exactly what I did with the man I dated for several months. I am kind of frozen in this observation mode and when things come out of these men's mouth's I wonder how much of what they are saying is how they really feel. I find myself holding back and i know that is to continue to get to know them and protect myself at the same time. I think though both men have felt this "resistance," and infact the man I dated for several months actually asked me to break down the walls and give to him. When he said this I realized what I was doing and I knew then he was feeling it.

So here is now my situation. I am in that mode yet again....yes, I am enjoying myself and the things this man and I do. No problem with affection on his part or mine. I am very comfortable with him, feel I can be myself but I am not responding except to say thank you to a compliment. I feel he wants me to share my feelings towards him and in many ways I can like yesterday, he asked me to walk thru a botanical garden. You know how wonderful it feels that someone is asking me to do something with them and planning it? I spent 27 years with a man who planned only a couple things the entire time we were together. My ex was not expressive and did not talk much, he was not affectionate (not even in the early stages of dating) so these men have been a breath of fresh air in that sense. This resistance on my part and lack of giving back or responding like I should, I feel, has to do with being told lies for years. It is not fair for me to not give or not trust another person based on the years of lies my ex told me. So I am just wondering how I can get past the hesitancy or is the caution healthy?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

The caution is healthy. Take your time. Get to know the guy fully. Time and observation is how the "real" guy shows himself.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

What would "giving back" or "responding like I should" look like specifically, according to these two men? What were they asking for?

Just trying to understand a bit more before I answer. I have a similar problem BTW.


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## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

How long after your divorce did you wait before dating again? Did you give yourself time to heal and discover who you were as person now that you are on your own? 24 years is a long time to not be on your own and maybe you owe it to yourself to figure out your own wants and needs as an individual. 

Dating is also much different than it was a quarter century ago and it may be good to observe the scene before jumping right in again. Maybe try taking a step back and try being friendly a few people of both the same and opposite sex in a place friendly to singles. Make friends and do stuff as a group for a while. Even shoot for a FWB relationship with someone, if your morals allow for that. You will gain perspective from people who are in the same situation as you and can benefit from their experiences thus far. 

I think you become more comfortable with your new position as a single and determine your new wants and needs as an individual, you will begin to answer your own questions regarding how open you are willing to be with a potential relationship partner.

Best of luck to you...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

AVR1962 said:


> After ending a 24 year marriage which took me 5 years of counseling to get out of, I started dating not quite a year ago. I dated a gentleman for several months which ended and am now dating again. I find myself doing exactly what I did with the man I dated for several months. I am kind of frozen in this observation mode and when things come out of these men's mouth's I wonder how much of what they are saying is how they really feel. I find myself holding back and i know that is to continue to get to know them and protect myself at the same time. I think though both men have felt this "resistance," and infact the man I dated for several months actually asked me to break down the walls and give to him. When he said this I realized what I was doing and I knew then he was feeling it.
> 
> So here is now my situation. I am in that mode yet again....yes, I am enjoying myself and the things this man and I do. No problem with affection on his part or mine. I am very comfortable with him, feel I can be myself but I am not responding except to say thank you to a compliment. I feel he wants me to share my feelings towards him and in many ways I can like yesterday, he asked me to walk thru a botanical garden. You know how wonderful it feels that someone is asking me to do something with them and planning it? I spent 27 years with a man who planned only a couple things the entire time we were together. My ex was not expressive and did not talk much, he was not affectionate (not even in the early stages of dating) so these men have been a breath of fresh air in that sense. This resistance on my part and lack of giving back or responding like I should, I feel, has to do with being told lies for years. It is not fair for me to not give or not trust another person based on the years of lies my ex told me. So I am just wondering how I can get past the hesitancy or is the caution healthy?


Don't be so foolish to think a man is going to walk you through botanical gardens and ride a white horse forever. Don't think any of these men are going to be anything but what they are. After the courting, see how he is. Don't even consider marriage until you see how they are after they think they've won you.
I did. I asked at 16 months, then watched as our relationship spiraled down to nothing after her anger, coldness, and total failure to talk to me in an argument. Stonewalled at every turn. Then days of silence and refusal to talk.

All I'm saying is they all seem nice at first.
You are wise to keep from getting too into these guys until a lot of time is passed. 
When you meet the right one, you'll react differently.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

You got to trust to love again. Not all men are like your ex ,yep its a chance you have to take to find a loving relationship and sometimes you get burned. But its worth taking that chance. 

S et some standards. If you catch them lying (more than white lies) then give them the boot.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Two things, first off I don't really know if you are feeling "cautionary" or if this is just the fact that you are no longer wearing the rose colored lenses we all wore before our lives changed. I think when we were younger we tended to believe in the fairy tale of romantic loves, soul mates and happily ever after. Some people get to live that fairy tale - I feel happy for them. The rest of us though eventually get to face reality. And hopefully we do so with a more realistic view of the world. So what you are feeling may simply be your new reality. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact it will help you live a better life and not settle for whatever comes down the road. (not saying that is what you did - but for some people it is the truth)
Secondly, having said that, the first thing you need to do is learn to trust yourself. You will never truly trust another until you full trust your self. I think part of that is exactly what your post is about. You are feeling things and you are not sure if they are real or not. You are observing and watching. And again there is nothing wrong with that.
So keep living and learning. Learn to trust your self and enjoy the journey.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

To me these things are so simple.

The men want to enjoy your company, they want to hear a few compliments, hear your heartfelt feelings.
They want to feel needed, to feel, if not loved, liked a lot.

They want to make you feel good, to win over your favor. To them it is a challenge and 'for a while' worth aiming for.

Now, if the man is virile and capable, he wants to slowly make love to you.
First kisses, then hugs, then hands going everywhere. His breath comng faster, his face becoming flush.
He is intently looking at your face, hoping against hope that you too, desire him.

His pride and his ego is on the line. He is extremely fearful of rejection.
His end game is simple. He wants to hold your' naked form against his.

And he prays that his equipment works. Works and does not fail him. At such an important juncture.
And if all goes well, he will want to repeat this over and over again, hoping you never tire, never send him home without supper.

Just Sayin'


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Red Sonja said:


> What would "giving back" or "responding like I should" look like specifically, according to these two men? What were they asking for?
> 
> Just trying to understand a bit more before I answer. I have a similar problem BTW.


Here is an example, "I feel we have connected on every level....spiritually, emotionally, intellectually and physically and I find myself surprised to feel this way." I was stunned, I didn't see that coming and I just sat there and listened to him talk without me replying back about how I felt about him.

Another example, "Most of the women I have met with I normally don't see a second time as I know from the first date whether I want to see them again. You have all the things I have ever wanted in a woman. I hope we can get to know one another more and see where this takes us." I am just thinking to myself, is this for real? So I say "thank you" but again I can't see the future and really I just feel like I need to really KNOW who this man is.....is he a cheat, does he lie, does he play games, does he have to have control, is he abusive? All these things pop into my head.

We all put our best foot forward when dating and until that mask starts dropping I don't feel i can give of myself fully and at the same time I know that it is important in the stages of dating that men feel wanted, needed, desired. So what I have done is I have told them what I do appreciate of them like, "It means alot to me that you asked me to go to the botanical garden and wanted to spend time with me. The day was really nice."


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

that boy is thirsty

i can see why your guard is up


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> Don't be so foolish to think a man is going to walk you through botanical gardens and ride a white horse forever. Don't think any of these men are going to be anything but what they are. After the courting, see how he is. Don't even consider marriage until you see how they are after they think they've won you.
> I did. I asked at 16 months, then watched as our relationship spiraled down to nothing after her anger, coldness, and total failure to talk to me in an argument. Stonewalled at every turn. Then days of silence and refusal to talk.
> 
> All I'm saying is they all seem nice at first.
> ...


And what you are saying here is what I experienced my my 24 years of marriage. My exhusband was a passive-aggressive drunk. When we married it was like a switch was thrown and once he had me he returned to himself and told me I had to accept it. I felt rejection on a daily basis, my marriage was very lonely. He would ignore me for days on end, communication was completely lacking. So I have experienced this so I get it, that is what i am trying to avoid and why I am trying to get to know these men and find myself staying cautious.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

toblerone said:


> that boy is thirsty
> 
> i can see why your guard is up


Those were quotes from two different men.... the one I dated for several months and the one I am dating now.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> Those were quotes from two different men.... the one I dated for several months and the one I am dating now.


Ok, if either of the quotes are about the current guy, i choose to believe my point still stands.

the guy could be genuine and desperate, or just telling you what you want to hear.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

toblerone said:


> that boy is thirsty
> 
> i can see why your guard is up


Ah!

Never date a man who is not thirsty.

For love.
For attention.
For company.
For laughs.
For warmth.

For sex....

If he is not thirsty, he is sated. By someone else. Or he holds no 'fors' in his quiver. He is a bore and a boring Lad.

If he is not thirsty then he is competitive...only.
Wanting, waiting for the prize that all women carry proudly...about midlife to mid-waist.
After his quick sip and his quick dip....he is on to the next butterfly.


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## Lawrence79 (Nov 5, 2017)

Although in my debacle I might not be the best person to offer up advice. . . . 

but in my situation:

I was destroyed 8 yrs ago, took a long time to heal with a few yrs of life coaching, reading, meditating, and understanding myself. 

I dated for a few years, till I found what I thought was the one. and similarly to you. . . I couldn't give her my all. I did 90% (perhaps further then you currently are) but I was always reserved. Never opening my heart fully, being vulnerable again etc etc. I kept her at an arms distance although for years there was zero reason to hold back. and that eventually caused problems because I left her confused and "where do we stand" kind of situation. she stayed in this limbo with me for 2 yrs.

long story short, it currently looks like it will not end well for me, as it is too late. I waited too long.

I understand the feeling and not wanting to be hurt again, but it can also work the other way around too. Just something to consider. Best of luck.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

SunCMars said:


> Ah!
> 
> Never date a man who is not thirsty.
> 
> ...


Thank you!! I needed to read this today. I had a very long talk with the man I am dating....he is simple in the since that is willing to put his feelings on the line but he was, been sensing, my lack of return which I have had to think long and hard about. It is not that I don't like this man, not that I don't desire him, not that I have concerns with him. I actually enjoy his company, enjoy the attention, enjoy our conversations. We talk 1-2 hours a night and I have learned an awful lot about this man and how he views life and deals with situations. I do feel he does have a good sense of balance in his life, he's practical....his head doesn't seem warped in some way that has put him in a strange hurtful mind-set like I have seen in other men. He is open with things he has done and can admit his mistakes which I can appreciate. 

I realized it was me that with both these men, and the others I dated, I was in this observation mode. There is nothing wrong in being cautious but I am holding back in observation waiting for this person to show me showing so I can leave, so I can run to escape risking being hurt and I am not truly giving of myself.....I am not being an equal to the relationship. The only way I am really going to get to know who these men are is to become a mutual partner.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> I am not being an equal to the relationship. The only way I am really going to get to know who these men are is to become a mutual partner.


You are welcome, Dear.

On being mutual:

Mutually loving.
Mutually giving.
Mutually *trusting.
Mutually patient.

If real and demonstrable **trust comes first,* [and it should] the other items fall in line.

But, with all things, ^hope is always a consideration. People can be elusive, some have subtle, underhand, maybe subconscious motives.



^Hope, not from Ontario, Canada.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> Thank you!! I needed to read this today. I had a very long talk with the man I am dating....he is simple in the since that is willing to put his feelings on the line but he was, been sensing, my lack of return which I have had to think long and hard about. It is not that I don't like this man, not that I don't desire him, not that I have concerns with him. I actually enjoy his company, enjoy the attention, enjoy our conversations. We talk 1-2 hours a night and I have learned an awful lot about this man and how he views life and deals with situations. I do feel he does have a good sense of balance in his life, he's practical....his head doesn't seem warped in some way that has put him in a strange hurtful mind-set like I have seen in other men. He is open with things he has done and can admit his mistakes which I can appreciate.
> 
> I realized it was me that with both these men, and the others I dated, I was in this observation mode. There is nothing wrong in being cautious but I am holding back in observation waiting for this person to show me showing so I can leave, so I can run to escape risking being hurt and I am not truly giving of myself.....I am not being an equal to the relationship. The only way I am really going to get to know who these men are is to become a mutual partner.


Are you being cautious, (which is smart) or are you really not attracted to him but staying because he seems like a good choice (which for anyone is a nightmare)?


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Are you being cautious, (which is smart) or are you really not attracted to him but staying because he seems like a good choice (which for anyone is a nightmare)?


I am attracted in many ways....I feel I am being cautious. He is wanting to take things a little faster than I want to so that creates a bit of a uncomfortable feeling and I feel I have to choose my words wisely as I don't want to send him packing but I also don't want to be as close as he wants right now.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> I am attracted in many ways


That sounds like hedging. Do you every see a time where you will desire him? Or is it someone who is safe and steady whom has a lot of attractive qualities. Like I am attracted to him because he has a good job and is a good guy, that kind of thing. That is just not good enough and probably what the issue is. He doesn't make me want to jump his bones but I can live without that. Cause no man wants that.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

sokillme said:


> That sounds like hedging. Do you every see a time where you will desire him? Or is it someone who is safe and steady whom has a lot of attractive qualities. Like I am attracted to him because he has a good job and is a good guy, that kind of thing. That is just not good enough and probably what the issue is. He doesn't make me want to jump his bones but I can live without that. Cause no man wants that.


Quite the opposite! This is a someone who has a career that I always kind of looked down upon, and I really hate to admit that. I was real hesitant to go out with him because of his career but phone conversations went well and this man has an amazing amount of energy in his voice, very fun to talk to you. Much better looking than his pictures that he'd sent me. We really hit it off right from our first conversation. I now have a much better understanding of his job and respect his work, I can see he is a hard worker. I don't need someone to support me, I do just fine financially on my own. However, I cannot financially support him....not saying that would happen but he has no retirement plan and at 61 I don't know how long he can work the hours he does to pay his bills. I have been traveled extensively, I have a great deal of culture and have experienced an awful lot that he has not and so in some ways it doesn't feel like we are on the same playing field. At first i think he liked hearing about my experiences and travels, even told me how awesome it was but lately I have felt he is tired of hearing about my adventures. 

Knowing he does not make the money I am used to and hearing from my male friends how they don't want to be the wallet for a lady, I have offered to pay my share or even asked if I could treat him but I think that makes him feel bad. I have told him I want to be fair but I think he feels he should pay and because of that it makes me not want to ask him if he would like to go out to eat or to a movie. So it is almost a Catch-22.

We were intimate pretty early on so that part is not an issue and I do enjoy being with him. He is very attentive, very affectionate.


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## Slartibartfast (Nov 7, 2017)

..


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Slartibartfast said:


> It is decidedly not about whether you can trust others. Trust is built over time and tests, but the hard truth is one can never be 100% certain that you won't have something serious to deal with. Heck, it could even be a stroke or mental illness or something totally beyond your partner's control, and you would have to deal with it.
> 
> Rather, it is about you trusting yourself. Trusting yourself to have learned enough not to make really dumb mistakes, and trusting that should it all go wrong one day, it won't destroy you. Getting hurt is one thing and it might have be accepted and worked through. Not trusting that you can survive a hit is something else.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your words of wisdom!


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