# Trying to find purpose



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Below are posts from a thread and it was recommended by a few posters (who I respect very much) that I needed to start a thread. Perhaps I'm just very tired (2-3 hours a night) but I don't know why I need to start a thread. Other then an attempt on my life which happened in August of last year. I have mentioned in several posts that I was suicidal. I'm extremely tired at the moment and I'm failing to see what I need from this thread. So I guess I'm asking for your perspective of what you take from these posts.

Posted by
drifting on
I agree this is situational to each case of infidelity. I chose to reconcile and exposing would have done nothing for me. I exposed the OM to his wife, I did this for me and I believe she had the right to know. I didn't expose OM for revenge, that is entirely a different matter. I did speak to my sister and tell her, but then she confessed to cheating on her husband for the last fourteen years. 

My sister confessing broke my heart even more, she was the one person I thought I could go to, heh, think again. Exposing to anyone else I think would only harm our reconciliation. Friends and family would view my wife differently after exposure. I view my sister differently after her confession. Further exposure while reconciling will only shame the WS. If you are reconciling it is obvious the WS is remorseful and deserving of a second chance. 

Exposing to save the marriage would mean your WS is not remorseful and divorce not sought out. You can save a marriage with exposure, but I find that to be scary as you want the WS to be remorseful of their own accord and not because you exposed. If I divorced, I believe I would only expose to her parents and mine, just so the truth be told. It is my opinion that the parents know the truth of why we are divorcing. Friends and other family don't really need to know unless lies are being told.

Posted by
bandit.45
Bvll****. You need to start a thread on this bro. You need to talk about this and get perspective. This is fvcking huge and you need support.

Posted by
drifting on
Worst night of my life Bandit, I met my sister about 9pm and left at 920pm, I drove around until I arrived home at 3am. It was the most hopeless I had ever felt, I grabbed my weapon and sat at my kitchen table, put the weapon under my chin tight to my adams apple and gently squeezed the trigger. The weapon jammed and I'm still here, I don't know if I have more to accomplish or if I'm to endure more pain. 

Her husband knows and she is almost through the divorce process. I did find out her affair partner cheated on her though. Can't say I was sorry or couldn't see that coming. Probably won't start a thread. 

Sorry for the thread jack.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sounds like you could use some closure with your sister.

Does she know how devastated you were by your wife and then her as well?

Does she know after you left you almost ate a lead sleeping pill?

I had a friend who succeeded. She needs to know how goddamned serious fvcking around on her marriage is.

Not everyone makes it like you did.

I'm glad you did though. I still don't think your wife is worth a second of your life but your kids sure are.

I think your sister needs to hear what you went through.

How is her stbx holding up? Could you offer him support?

How about her kids?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

I don't know you and I may be reading this post out of context (it is a copy/paste?). I am concerned for your safety. It is unclear if this story is in the past or present.

I just wanted to say if you are not feeling safe, please call a suicide hot line or go to the Emergency Room. Also, you should have this weapon removed from your possession while you are in crisis. 

Please be well.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

where_are_we said:


> I don't know you and I may be reading this post out of context (it is a copy/paste?). I am concerned for your safety. It is unclear if this story is in the past or present.
> 
> I just wanted to say if you are not feeling safe, please call a suicide hot line or go to the Emergency Room. Also, you should have this weapon removed from your possession while you are in crisis.
> 
> Please be well.


It was past. It was after he found out about his WWs affair and went to talk to his sister. She then confessed to betraying her own husband for fifteen years. Maybe like it was just something wives did to men as a matter of course.

He got out of there and nearly ate a bullet.

He is in a better place now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Live for yourself n children . No one is worth dying for . Be well .


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You probably shocked your sister into confessing.

You are carrying too big a burden.

Counselling might be of help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Sounds like you could use some closure with your sister.
> 
> Does she know how devastated you were by your wife and then her as well?
> 
> ...



I have told my sister everything, she is thankful I am here, she is devastated herself for what she has done. My xbil is a jerk, never liked him or saw eye to eye with him, we have had words on many occasions and this is when they were still dating. My sister has three children, all honor roll students, they are doing very well since their father left the house. While there is no excuse for my sisters behavior and even worse her actions, her husband was manipulative and verbally abusive. I don't dislike many people, but this guy is a complete ass---e.

My sister has apologized to me many times but I don't accept it. I was raised in the same house as her and taught the same values and beliefs. In my opinion she ignored how she was raised and acted on her selfish desires. Many times I pleaded for her to divorce, she tried to keep her family together, for whatever that was worth to her. Her situation is far different then mine but bottom line is she cheated, and now has to live with that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

where_are_we said:


> I don't know you and I may be reading this post out of context (it is a copy/paste?). I am concerned for your safety. It is unclear if this story is in the past or present.
> 
> I just wanted to say if you are not feeling safe, please call a suicide hot line or go to the Emergency Room. Also, you should have this weapon removed from your possession while you are in crisis.
> 
> Please be well.




First, I thank you for caring for a complete stranger, for offering connections to give me avenues of help. I don't know if I could ever tell you what that means to me. This is copied and pasted from another thread, and it is in the past. I have endured MC from August of 2013 to May of 2015. I am currently still going to IC to keep me from repeating the events I took that dark night. Thank you again for your compassion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

drifting on said:


> I have told my sister everything, she is thankful I am here, she is devastated herself for what she has done. My xbil is a jerk, never liked him or saw eye to eye with him, we have had words on many occasions and this is when they were still dating. My sister has three children, all honor roll students, they are doing very well since their father left the house. While there is no excuse for my sisters behavior and even worse her actions, her husband was manipulative and verbally abusive. I don't dislike many people, but this guy is a complete ass---e.
> 
> My sister has apologized to me many times but I don't accept it. I was raised in the same house as her and taught the same values and beliefs. In my opinion she ignored how she was raised and acted on her selfish desires. Many times I pleaded for her to divorce, she tried to keep her family together, for whatever that was worth to her. Her situation is far different then mine but bottom line is she cheated, and now has to live with that.


How long were they together?

I mean... _14 years...?!?_ FWIW, if she'd been cheating on him for that long, she couldn't have been very committed to their relationship, and that dichotomy may have very well contributed somewhat (even if only indirectly) to his behavior.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

drifting on said:


> First, I thank you for caring for a complete stranger, for offering connections to give me avenues of help. I don't know if I could ever tell you what that means to me. This is copied and pasted from another thread, and it is in the past. I have endured MC from August of 2013 to May of 2015. I am currently still going to IC to keep me from repeating the events I took that dark night. Thank you again for your compassion.


Hey so when did this occur?

And were you in MC prior to D-Day...?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> It was past. It was after he found out about his WWs affair and went to talk to his sister. She then confessed to betraying her own husband for fifteen years. Maybe like it was just something wives did to men as a matter of course.
> 
> He got out of there and nearly ate a bullet.
> 
> ...




ConanHub

I thank you for posting this, it was in the past but this summed it up perfectly. I forgot to address my wife in your first post and I will do so here. In many ways I have no leg to stand on with what you have said. You are correct in many ways and my WW may not be deserving of a second chance. I have strict beliefs, beliefs that I lost for a time and nearly ended my life. I was very lost, confused, and I had no idea where to turn. This was the first time in my life I had no idea how to proceed. My WW helped to see me through that dark time, she is full of remorse, she has poured every ounce of herself into me healing. She has been selfless in this and I can't simply walk away when she is giving every effort she has. 

Part of my problem is that at the end of the day, my WW cheated, and I despise cheating. Cheating was always a deal breaker to me, until it happened to me. Now my world exploded as did all my beliefs, I'm struggling to reach ground I've never covered nor expected to find my way through. My wife mad a devastating decision, without a doubt, and my offer of reconciliation came with everything I can possibly give. My WW is giving her all and I am doing the same, at times I feel we can make it, others I'm not so sure, but we both have more fight in us and we will continue forward.

I have much respect for you ConanHub, I have heard all that you have said, but I believe I'm making the correct choice for me. I thank you for your words that make me think, and perspective I had missed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*We are here for you, DO! Always have been ~ always will be!

My unceasing prayers go with you!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

tripad said:


> Live for yourself n children . No one is worth dying for . Be well .




Thank you, I have a different view on life and hope to live it to the fullest. I am still healing now but if you see me with my boys you would think nothing is wrong. I love those boys with all my heart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> You probably shocked your sister into confessing.
> 
> You are carrying too big a burden.
> 
> ...




Looking back I can't tell you how accurate this post is, I am in IC and probably will be for a while. Maybe my therapist will give me a multi year discount!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

drifting on said:


> Thank you, I have a different view on life and hope to live it to the fullest. I am still healing now but if you see me with my boys you would think nothing is wrong. I love those boys with all my heart.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



*You feel the very same way, DO, about your sons as I do mine! Wouldn't trade them for anything in this world ~ or any other for that matter!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> How long were they together?
> 
> I mean... _14 years...?!?_ FWIW, if she'd been cheating on him for that long, she couldn't have been very committed to their relationship, and that dichotomy may have very well contributed somewhat (even if only indirectly) to his behavior.



Almost 28 years and 26 married. While dating he couldn't hold a job, after they married he bounced from one job to another. My sister worked three jobs to support them. She continued with three jobs for nineteen years. During this time he worked ten hours a week, and I watched the life drain from my sister. I got in his face on multiple occasions getting physical once. I begged my sister to divorce. She didn't and now I know why. I said before I dislike very few people but before my sisters affair from dating on this guy was a jerk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Hey so when did this occur?
> 
> And were you in MC prior to D-Day...?



Last year is when I sought to end my life as well as this year on January 28th, I sat on railroad tracks but listened to my MC. We entered MC in August of 2013, my d-day was January 20, 2014. So yes you are reading this correctly that my WW lied through the first five months of MC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *We are here for you, DO! Always have been ~ always will be!
> 
> My unceasing prayers go with you!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Thank you sir!! I can't tell you how cathartic TAM has been for me. I wrote an email to my MC and in our next session we spoke of it in length. My therapist found that writing this out was more cathartic and that became my homework. I had to send our MC two emails a week to discuss in session. I had told her about this site and she encouraged me to post. I was to stop posting if I became damaged from the stories of infidelity or if she noticed that I was retreating as a direct result of here. I'm very fortunate to have found TAM as it helps me to heal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *You feel the very same way, DO, about your sons as I do mine! Wouldn't trade them for anything in this world ~ or any other for that matter!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




They have given me life, I am rediscovering everything all over again. When they were eight months old we walked around our property as I held them. I remember the first time they touched the leaf of a tree, the first time their feet met the grass, the first time they touched snow. I cried openly when they were born, and my love for them is boundless, they are a huge part of my salvation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

So how is your sister now?

She is divorced which is good.

Her AP cheated on her, is she still with him?

Has she tried to change or become a better person?

You said you won't accept her apologies. Have you accepted them from your wife?

Is it because your wife is working on becoming a better person?

Is it more necessary to reconcile with your wife than your sister?

It might be harming you on some level not to forgive your sister.

Obviously if she isn't doing anything to redeem herself, I don't believe forgiveness is necessarily warranted.

How is your relationship with your sister today?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

OP . let your sister fight her own war n demons . If you cant face her , don't . But she is your sister who had done you no wrong ( I assumed she had not ) , she may need you just to be a brother to her .

I have a brother who had been on drugs and he knows my stand . I am willing to be a sister who extends a helping hand and free food and lodging if he comes clean n stays clean . it is difficult for me as well when I felt used .


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Reading this post really brought home the fine line we tread in our decisions we take when confronted with life changing situations that shake our core to its foundation.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> So how is your sister now?
> 
> She is divorced which is good.
> 
> ...




My sister is happier now, she is the fun sister of old that I thought would never return. I am happy for her that she has freed herself of her ex.

Yes, she is divorced!!! So happy about that. 

Her affair partner had a one night stand, not that I'm shocked but I don't say once a cheater always a cheater. I think more along the lines of people learn to make better choices. Maybe this will work out for her and maybe not. 

My sister has changed to become a better person and is also in IC. IC was a must for me, either better yourself or I speak very little to you. She chose IC. 

In the beginning I didn't accept her apologies or hardly speak to her. I was devastated that my sister would and did cheat on her husband and marriage. I do not believe cheating is ever the answer, divorce is, and that is exactly what I told her. Once she started IC I began to soften little by little, but I'm still devastated that she cheated. It's not that she is a bad person, but she was broken and instead of getting help and making the best choice, she ignored her brokenness and chose terribly. As did my wife. I understand making bad decisions but this decision is pretty huge to get wrong. So many thoughts I would think you would have to ignore or justify would exhaust me. 
I don't understand infidelity in many ways, I question why all the time, yet there is no satisfactory answer. How could my wife or sister lean in to kiss a man passionately and not think this is wrong? How many thoughts did you come up with to justify this decision? As it progresses to taking clothes off how is that justified? I don't get it!!!! This is where I struggle, this is what is so hard to accept, are you telling me your brain never once said WTF!!!!! 
I have accepted apologies from both as they are both important people in my life. I love them both (differently) but I do love them both. Proving that you want to better yourself, ok, I'll help you as best I can. I don't normally turn my back on people, I try to be a positive influence until you show me you are incapable of learning.

I think it is necessary to reconcile with both. As I said they are both very important to me. I have one wife and one sister, they both made bad decisions that affected me, but they are both trying to become better persons respectively. I can only ask them to better themselves, I can't control either one, so I am trying to influence them to be better. 

I have forgiven my wife, and that was difficult to do, trying to forgive my sister and my wife was a burden I struggled with. I have not fully forgiven my sister but I'm on the verge of doing so. I think you are correct that not forgiving my sister has harmed me. 

Today we are cordial but you can tell there is an awkwardness between us. We were very close and could tell each other anything, I guess she never told me because she knew I would be upset. Our relationship is mending, but I will still need some time, I'm still broken and working on myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

tripad said:


> OP . let your sister fight her own war n demons . If you cant face her , don't . But she is your sister who had done you no wrong ( I assumed she had not ) , she may need you just to be a brother to her .
> 
> I have a brother who had been on drugs and he knows my stand . I am willing to be a sister who extends a helping hand and free food and lodging if he comes clean n stays clean . it is difficult for me as well when I felt used .




I understand you fully, I still watched out for her and her kids, but I couldn't really engage in conversation or giving of help until she tried to better herself. We talk now, and I'm there for her if she needs me IF she keeps trying to better herself. I didn't feel used as much as I felt my wife and sister became united by both cheating. I feared the arguments and hearing "your sister cheated" or "your wife cheated", I figured they would team up together, instead they both took responsibility of there actions. Thank you for your insight, you have helped me realize this from a new perspective.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

G.J. said:


> Reading this post really brought home the fine line we tread in our decisions we take when confronted with life changing situations that shake our core to its foundation.



G.J.

My core was destroyed, when I say I was lost I honestly did not know what to do. I joined here, then didn't post because I couldn't put a sentence together. My mind had racing thoughts, my beliefs and values destroyed, my faith destroyed. I remember getting in my car one night and screaming at God, how could He allow this? How, how does God say He will never give you more then you can handle? Nothing in myself was me anymore, nothing, I struggled and walked aimlessly through a battle torn field with no logical thoughts. At that time death became the only answer that made any sense.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

As a clinician that have worked with suicidal clients and as a Veteran that dealt with soldiers in Iraq who were suicidal I can honestly say I not only have the training in suicide prevention and intervention I have experience in dealing with it first hand.




First, you are at risk now, particularly due to your past suicidal thoughts and actions.  You are a high risk person due to the fact that you are not far removed (time wise) from your suicidal thoughts and actions.

Second, getting a few hours of sleep a night is also not a good sign. You are at a weakened stated mentally due to lack of sleep.

Third, you sound like you might be having feelings hopelessness and despair. The title of your post "trying to find purpose" is very telling to me. 


Here is my suggestions:

1.*Get rid of all your weapons. Give them to a neighbor, a friend or a family member. And do this now!!!!*
2. *If you feel suicidal go to the nearest emergency room, immediately.*


IMO you are not dealing with what your wife has done to you in a healthy manner. You jump around and start focusing on what your sister did and your EXBIL. Forget you EXBIL and forget your sister for the time being. 

What your sister did was cheat and this is one huge trigger for you. The problem is not your sister cheating, it is how you reacted to it and you did not react in a healthy way. You did not focus outward, you focused inward. You did not really get p*ssed at your sister or your wife (IMO). IF you don't want to expose I am OK with that, but you need to deal with your feelings, instead of stuffing them and internalizing this whole thing.

Stop trying to protect your sister and your wife. They hurt you and the bigger issue is what your wife did to you.

I am hoping your IC is working on these issues. If not find someone else to walk you through this.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> As a clinician that have worked with suicidal clients and as a Veteran that dealt with soldiers in Iraq who were suicidal I can honestly say I not only have the training in suicide prevention and intervention I have experience in dealing with it first hand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am in agreement that I did not cope well with this for the first eight to ten months. The fact that the affair ended (wife's) two and a half years before getting help damaged me severely. This time period allowed depression to root itself in me firmly. I (stupidly I might add) believed I could deal with this on my own. Clearly this was not a lucid thought on my part at all. After d-day our MC advised to begin IC, I said I was fine and truly thought I was. Clearly that was another mistake I made. I now have IC and yes, she has been very helpful and I am no longer suicidal. I have a ways to go to fully recover and I will have my neighbor hold my weapons. 

Although my sisters affair had no bearing on my marriage I felt I had lost the last person to have my back. We have been there for each other all our lives and in a way I felt abandoned by her cheating. I have been angry with both my sister and wife over their affairs, I have yelled and screamed at the both of them and rearranged the garage on several occasions. 

As for the title, I chose that over why do people cheat? Trying to find a purpose is more what I am actually looking for. What is the purpose of cheating? Did it solve anything? Still searching for that why answer that eludes the BS much like justice does.

I assure you thorburn, I am safe, I am not suicidal nor homicidal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Thorburn,

I meant to add that my entire life I have been terrible with sleeping. I normally would get about five hours on a good night.

Also, in no way am I disputing your knowledge as a clinician any our expierience. I believe you are very well trained and educated in this field. I also appreciate your response and I will place stock in what you say. I will keep a close eye on myself and contact an emergency room if any of these feelings return.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*You're taking the right approach to coming out of the woods, DO! Having seen that you have summarily forgiven your XW for her transgressions is an excellent sign. I forgave mine, but I will never forget about it. Always remember where you've been because it will keep you focused on where you're going!

Following through on Thorburns suggestions seems the right thing to do!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *You're taking the right approach to coming out of the woods, DO! Having seen that you have summarily forgiven your XW for her transgressions is an excellent sign. I forgave mine, but I will never forget about it. Always remember where you've been because it will keep you focused on where you're going!
> 
> Following through on Thorburns suggestions seems the right thing to do!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Arbitrator

I am walking slowly to heal completely, if that is not possible then to heal as much as one can heal from infidelity. There were many times I wanted to throw in the towel so to speak, but each time I find a reason to fight and move forward. When I reach the other side I hope to be a better man for enduring this painful path. I hope my marriage is stronger, it is stronger then before the marriage, but I believe it can be stronger. I no longer try to control what I couldn't control before, this has lifted some of the burden from me. If my wife were not doing all she has been doing then I could not have let that control go. 

IC has helped me tremendously, I am thankful she is guiding me at my pace and not her own. My therapist has listened and offered ways to cope, I apply these methods and learn to cope differently to situations. I have faith in me again, I have respect for me again, I have become stronger due to the adversity I have faced, but I'm not done, and I will heal at my pace. I have no timetable as to when I'll be healed, but I'm being sure to heal slowly and carefully to leave no seeds of regret or resentment. 

Thorburn has offered some great advice that I am thankful for, and I will follow his advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 5Creed (May 29, 2011)

Drifting on,

When I posted about my own situation, you were one of the people that replied to me whose words I really held onto. There is nothing more painful than a wife or husband could do and although I have chosen a different path than the one you are on, I admire you so much and really relate to how you are feeling. The whys are freaking killer thoughts and won't ever go away I am believing now because sometimes they don't get answered and it is maddening. I think they way to move forward though is to learn that you might not ever get all the answers. This is what separates the ones divorcing and reconciling and something I personally could not deal with. The people who can though have my respect.

I am thankful that your children still have Dad to watch them grow up and to be an example to them. I am so sorry about your relationship with your sister. Totally understandable though because of your closeness to her. Not only did your wife do this selfish thing; but your sister who you were close to also?!? And just like your wife you had no idea. I am still some days so disbelieving that my husband did this to me, to our family, to his children. Where was his mind to be able to do this over and over?

There you have it though drifting on. The hellish circle of thoughts that don't seem to go away. I have seen healed people on TAM and I know they had days that they were backsliding and slipped back into all the questions. Your wife is one very lucky woman. I hope that she realizes what a gift you are giving her. I hope to God she appreciates you every single day.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

DO,
I would ask that you consider something. You wrote that you reached a place where you felt completely lost, for the first time you had no idea how to proceed. You saw death as the only way out. Do you feel that way now? No, you now see your children as a lifeline, you did not before. You have forgiven your wife, you had not before. You are mending the relationship with your sister, you did not before. All of these things were there but you did not see them, you saw death as your only way out. You were wrong, but in your mind, at that time, there was no other answer.

It is not exactly the same but in similar fashion your wife and your sister saw cheating as their only answer. They had feelings of loss, desperation, lost hope and confusion. The severely lacked clarity of thought, as did you when you placed the gun barrel against your throat. You did not reach out, your wife did. She foolishly thought that her AP could provide the salvation she searched for, the release she longed for and the hope she needed. However, just as you now know that taking hold of that weapon was not the answer, she now sees how wrong her thinking was. She now sees things much differently and with much more clarity, as do you.

I cannot offer you any logical reason a person cheats because it is completely illogical, to someone observing from the outside but, just as you felt that suicide was the only logical answer at the time, to someone without clarity of thought an A seems logically plausible. Your wife now sees that she was terribly wrong and I believe your sister is seeing it also. This is how we heal and grow. Life has no manual, no guidebook, it is up to each of us to do the best we can to make the best of life. The experience you have had is horrific but as horrific as it was, it is a piece of your life that has made DO who he is. What is most important is that we learn and grow and become better from the experience and you and your wife certainly have and your sister seems to be as well. This is the best one can hope for, to arise from the dust and debris beaten and bruised but not defeated. You have done just that. Your marriage has done just that. Your relationship with your sister is doing just that.

I have always been a proponent of reconciling a marriage whenever there exists any hope and stories such as yours serve to reinforce my stance. Your story may very well serve as inspiration to many on TAM looking for that hope. Thank you for sharing it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

drifting on said:


> Thorburn,
> 
> I meant to add that my entire life I have been terrible with sleeping. I normally would get about five hours on a good night.
> 
> ...


I am an insomniac also. I have never been able to sleep more than five hours straight through a night my whole life. So you are not alone.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

5Creed said:


> Drifting on,
> 
> When I posted about my own situation, you were one of the people that replied to me whose words I really held onto. There is nothing more painful than a wife or husband could do and although I have chosen a different path than the one you are on, I admire you so much and really relate to how you are feeling. The whys are freaking killer thoughts and won't ever go away I am believing now because sometimes they don't get answered and it is maddening. I think they way to move forward though is to learn that you might not ever get all the answers. This is what separates the ones divorcing and reconciling and something I personally could not deal with. The people who can though have my respect.
> 
> ...



5Creed

Thank you, thank you for those kind words. I remember your post about winning a TAM prize for staying so long or something to that effect. My reply was from my heart, that's how I post mostly, with my emotions on my sleeve. I have been having a few down days lately, but your post has lifted me, your post brought tears to my eyes. I'm not really feeling like smiling right now but you have made me smile, and I say thank you for making me smile at a tie I didn't want to. 

I don't think I will ever get the answers I truly seek, and maybe one day it won't hurt as bad. Maybe I will find a better way to cope, a better way to be a better man, a better father, a better human being. I'm not perfect by any means, but that doesn't mean I can't still strive to be perfect. 

5Creed I wish you the best of luck, and I hope peace and happiness fill your future. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

drifting on said:


> First, I thank you for caring for a complete stranger, for offering connections to give me avenues of help. I don't know if I could ever tell you what that means to me. This is copied and pasted from another thread, and it is in the past. I have endured MC from August of 2013 to May of 2015. I am currently still going to IC to keep me from repeating the events I took that dark night. Thank you again for your compassion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are most welcome. I am glad to hear you are in a better place now. I hope that you continue to take steps to be safe and have a good support structure.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> DO,
> I would ask that you consider something. You wrote that you reached a place where you felt completely lost, for the first time you had no idea how to proceed. You saw death as the only way out. Do you feel that way now? No, you now see your children as a lifeline, you did not before. You have forgiven your wife, you had not before. You are mending the relationship with your sister, you did not before. All of these things were there but you did not see them, you saw death as your only way out. You were wrong, but in your mind, at that time, there was no other answer.
> 
> It is not exactly the same but in similar fashion your wife and your sister saw cheating as their only answer. They had feelings of loss, desperation, lost hope and confusion. The severely lacked clarity of thought, as did you when you placed the gun barrel against your throat. You did not reach out, your wife did. She foolishly thought that her AP could provide the salvation she searched for, the release she longed for and the hope she needed. However, just as you now know that taking hold of that weapon was not the answer, she now sees how wrong her thinking was. She now sees things much differently and with much more clarity, as do you.
> ...




NoChoice

What you have written has me at a loss for words. You have given me much to digest and mull over. I will respond to this tomorrow as I want my reply to be half as good as what you wrote. I would like to thank you for giving me this response, giving me a new perspective of what has happened. Thank you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> I am an insomniac also. I have never been able to sleep more than five hours straight through a night my whole life. So you are not alone.



bandit.45

What do I say to you, you were the first to suggest to start this thread, you said I needed support. To be honest I thought I was doing fine, I couldn't understand why you wanted me to start this thread. I see why now, and I have had great respect for you. When I first came to TAM I needed to learn fast, I began reading the ups and downs thread, what better a title then what I was feeling at that moment. I also came to find many awesome posters in that thread. As of late you have posted the last few pages to Calvin, and you have provided many words of support and intelligence. I have much respect for you, and now I'm also grateful to you, for encouraging me to start this thread. From the bottom of my heart bandit.45, thank you! I owe you more then a thank you, but I have no idea what more I can say that would show you how much I appreciate your support to start this thread. Stay safe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

where_are_we said:


> You are most welcome. I am glad to hear you are in a better place now. I hope that you continue to take steps to be safe and have a good support structure.




I have told nobody of what I have dealt with for what seems to be a lifetime. Ironically when I told my sister she got angry with my wife. I thought I would have no support system after my confessed, but being here has helped very much. I'm not even sure if my friends could understand and give advice as best as the people here. They have not gone through infidelity, and I firmly believe the only people who can help are people who have gone through this. Again, thank you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

drifting on said:


> bandit.45
> 
> What do I say to you, you were the first to suggest to start this thread, you said I needed support. To be honest I thought I was doing fine, I couldn't understand why you wanted me to start this thread. I see why now, and I have had great respect for you. When I first came to TAM I needed to learn fast, I began reading the ups and downs thread, what better a title then what I was feeling at that moment. I also came to find many awesome posters in that thread. As of late you have posted the last few pages to Calvin, and you have provided many words of support and intelligence. I have much respect for you, and now I'm also grateful to you, for encouraging me to start this thread. From the bottom of my heart bandit.45, thank you! I owe you more then a thank you, but I have no idea what more I can say that would show you how much I appreciate your support to start this thread. Stay safe.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're gonna make me cry....


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> You're gonna make me cry....




I don't know if you're crying from what I wrote or that you moved to Texas!!! Thank you!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

drifting on said:


> I don't know if you're crying from what I wrote or that you moved to Texas!!! Thank you!!



Careful now...


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Drifting.... I'm not overly involved here at TAM right now, but will log in to read lightly and stumbled across your thread. I will keep tabs on this one along with the thread for FFH and Navy3. I am so glad NoChoice compared the suicide attempts to the infidelity, because to the loved ones closest to those who choose those behaviors the impact is destructive. In those moments we choose to not look past our own thumb of pain and into the eyes of those we will hurt the most by those choices. Now, that is not to say that all infidelity is chosen from a place of pain, but many are. Again no justification, but you can see where "choose to divorce instead" and "think of your kids" both rooted in thinking of others before going through with a destructive choice make them parallel each other. We ALL fall drifting... there isn't one of us who hasn't in one form or another. Saved or unsaved, we all still fall. That propensity to fall doesn't go away no matter what we are taught. It is the human condition. We all lose our way... only to find our way back again. And here is the thing drifting.... you got the chance to reconcile ... if the bullet had succeded, your wife wouldn't have gotten the chance to reconcile, nor your kids. So I am grateful for that jamming gun. That was God doing for you what you couldn't do for yourself. Why He chose you and not Conan's buddy we can't know, but what I can know is He doesn't want you to waste His gift to you. Lean on Jesus hard. He is your power to overcome this. Dig deep into His truth. Deeper than you ever have before. HE is your purpose. You are in the refiners fire for HIM. All my best cheers for you and this path. Will be lifting you in prayer....


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> DO,
> I would ask that you consider something. You wrote that you reached a place where you felt completely lost, for the first time you had no idea how to proceed. You saw death as the only way out. Do you feel that way now? No, you now see your children as a lifeline, you did not before. You have forgiven your wife, you had not before. You are mending the relationship with your sister, you did not before. All of these things were there but you did not see them, you saw death as your only way out. You were wrong, but in your mind, at that time, there was no other answer.
> 
> It is not exactly the same but in similar fashion your wife and your sister saw cheating as their only answer. They had feelings of loss, desperation, lost hope and confusion. The severely lacked clarity of thought, as did you when you placed the gun barrel against your throat. You did not reach out, your wife did. She foolishly thought that her AP could provide the salvation she searched for, the release she longed for and the hope she needed. However, just as you now know that taking hold of that weapon was not the answer, she now sees how wrong her thinking was. She now sees things much differently and with much more clarity, as do you.
> ...




NoChoice

Your words have resonated deep within me. Thanks to not being able to sleep I have read your post numerous times. Here are my thoughts. 

When I chose to take my life I felt nothing, that inside I was dead. For the first time in my life I had no emotion, I had no pain, no racing thoughts, no shame or humiliation. Perhaps I felt nothing because I knew it was all ending, or perhaps I felt nothing because I hit rock bottom. I remember that night clearly and vividly, sharing this is cathartic in some ways. In other ways it is a view into my mind when I was at my worst. I wanted death, I wanted this to all end, I didn't have any strength to fight on. 

When I realized the weapon jammed I was infuriated, all my emotions came flooding back and I slumped onto the table. My first thought was I couldn't even get this right. How hard is it to squeeze a trigger, and yet I failed. It's no wonder why my wife cheated, I can't even get this right. The pain came back worse then ever. I went and laid down in bed then went to work. 

I know her cheating is not my fault, my fault is in the marriage as well as hers. But, she was my first and only and I believed for a short time that I couldn't please her. I felt like I wasn't a man, I was emasculated, and I couldn't live that way. I walked with my head down for months from the humiliation, the shame that my outward appearance is that of a man but I'm not. I was destroyed, well beyond my core, and I didn't know what I could do. 

So maybe she felt this too, maybe she felt lost, maybe she didn't know where to turn either. It hurts me to think now that she felt the same emotions as I, because I never recognized she was lost. Obviously communication was lacking, but I would think one would notice. However, to the contrary I didn't tell her what I did for a month, and she didn't know. Looking back now, I realize how distant the two of us were, yet we said I love you and kissed each other good night. We slept in the same bed, miles apart without knowing how much we would destroy each other in the near future. 

We have come far in our process of healing, and we have much farther to go. We have both given all we can to make this a beautiful marriage and relationship. We have both suffered at the hands of each other in different ways. Neither of us are perfect, nor will we ever be, but our marriage will not return to what it was. We have agreed mutually to end the marriage if it returns to what we had before. 

NoChoice, your words made me see this in a new perspective, one I hadn't thought of before. What your words have done is give me the best probable answer to why. Although I will probably never receive the answer to why, I probably won't understand the purpose of the affair either. I thank you for this post, you have helped me more then you will ever know. Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Drifting.... I'm not overly involved here at TAM right now, but will log in to read lightly and stumbled across your thread. I will keep tabs on this one along with the thread for FFH and Navy3. I am so glad NoChoice compared the suicide attempts to the infidelity, because to the loved ones closest to those who choose those behaviors the impact is destructive. In those moments we choose to not look past our own thumb of pain and into the eyes of those we will hurt the most by those choices. Now, that is not to say that all infidelity is chosen from a place of pain, but many are. Again no justification, but you can see where "choose to divorce instead" and "think of your kids" both rooted in thinking of others before going through with a destructive choice make them parallel each other. We ALL fall drifting... there isn't one of us who hasn't in one form or another. Saved or unsaved, we all still fall. That propensity to fall doesn't go away no matter what we are taught. It is the human condition. We all lose our way... only to find our way back again. And here is the thing drifting.... you got the chance to reconcile ... if the bullet had succeded, your wife wouldn't have gotten the chance to reconcile, nor your kids. So I am grateful for that jamming gun. That was God doing for you what you couldn't do for yourself. Why He chose you and not Conan's buddy we can't know, but what I can know is He doesn't want you to waste His gift to you. Lean on Jesus hard. He is your power to overcome this. Dig deep into His truth. Deeper than you ever have before. HE is your purpose. You are in the refiners fire for HIM. All my best cheers for you and this path. Will be lifting you in prayer....




Blossom Leigh

Thank you for the kind words and prayers, your post has moved me to tears. I understand that my actions were very selfish, and that I would have inflicted pain on those who love me. While I have struggled and been lost other times in my life, it was never to the extent that infidelity can cause. I try to enjoy life now, I try to surround myself with joy and peace. I believe life will be better, that I will persevere through the darkness of infidelity, and that one day I will be happy and peaceful. I have found my faith again and I lean on God each and every day, but I need to do more with my faith, as you say I need to lean harder on God. I will do that now, so that God may lead me to salvation. Thank you Blossom, and I hope I may get the privledge to hear you sing in concert. Good luck to you!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

drifting on said:


> Blossom Leigh
> 
> Thank you for the kind words and prayers, your post has moved me to tears. I understand that my actions were very selfish, and that I would have inflicted pain on those who love me. While I have struggled and been lost other times in my life, it was never to the extent that infidelity can cause. I try to enjoy life now, I try to surround myself with joy and peace. I believe life will be better, that I will persevere through the darkness of infidelity, and that one day I will be happy and peaceful. I have found my faith again and I lean on God each and every day, but I need to do more with my faith, as you say I need to lean harder on God. I will do that now, so that God may lead me to salvation. Thank you Blossom, and I hope I may get the privledge to hear you sing in concert. Good luck to you!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aShGbSMgO28

a song for you....


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

Drifting on

I am so glad you are posting this thread. I am thankful that you listen to the excellent advice given and really take it to heart. You are doing everything you can to move forward for the sake of your marriage, your boys and yourself. It can only get better.

You do so much good on this site. You have been a port in a storm for me on several dark days and I am sure there are many others who have been helped by hearing your experiences and your advice, knowing they were not alone….Please keep doing the hard work to get better. Clinical depression makes that work even harder and you need lots of support through these times. 

Your wife seems to be doing everything she possibly can for your sake and the sake of her family. I am glad you have forgiven her and I hope you can forgive your sister as well. It would be a gift you give to yourself to have your relationship back fully.

You did say one of the reasons for your thread title was trying to come to terms with the why. Why would anyone cheat how do they make those decisions and justify them to themselves. I will try to tell you my own why and how-

I realize NOTHING I have to say excuses what i did- and I realize how rediculously stupid it all sounds.

H and i were married for 7 years and together for 12. We had one small child and both worked full time. I spent most of my time working and looking after our child at home which i loved to do.

He was distant emotionally and absent a lot of the time with sports and buddies. I expressed numerous times that I was lonely and wanted to have a closer relationship. I longed for some kind of emotional connection. I told him I needed him to be my friend, to talk with me, to share intimacies. He seemed distracted most of the time and wasn't into sharing feelings…..he is a doer - get stuff accomplished. Once I told him I could have an affair with someone just because they looked at me when they talked to me (I was joking at the time)

I decided to go out with a group from work once a week for dinner and then drinks. One of these co-workers would occasionally send me a short funny note at work and i would respond in kind. Nothing wrong there….. over time these notes became longer and more frequent throughout the day, and included more personal thoughts but nothing inappropriate……. I knew deep down it was opening up a door that should remain closed.

I became addicted to that attention, to the feeling that someone was really interested in my thoughts and feelings. That this person somehow "got" me. (cliche) I convinced myself that H was happier because he no longer had to listen to my thoughts or deal with my emotions and i wasn't making demands on his time or attention.

Eventually OM and I were at a coworkers place and the other coworker passed out in her bedroom. We had been sitting on a couch watching TV and the first P happened. He initiated it and I felt not much more than curiosity. I was more interested in the E component. The next day we discussed that it would never happen again and that we had to make strict boundaries in order to continue the friendship. But, once that door was opened it became easier. Having already crossed that line it didn't seem to matter if I crossed it again. 

To deal with the guilt i compartmentalized the two worlds. It felt as though one had nothing to do with the other. It felt as though it wasn't wrong because it was separate. It had nothing to do with H- it was only about me.(selfish and immature)

As for the rest of the physical part it never felt like an active choice to betray H further by taking the P further because it felt so removed from my married life.( although there must have been some realization as i did stop short of oral or intercourse -I was worried H couldn't forgive that.) In my mind when I was around the OM it was as though I was single. I almost never talked about H to the OM and never said anything negative about my marriage. I guess to keep the illusion going. 

A WS does not even slightly understand the enormity of what they are doing. They have no capacity to feel the anguish and torture all their actions can bring. That fog is thick and evil.

Hope a little of that was helpful DO -stay strong.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

And again …..Karma's a B!#@h……..please no bashing


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> You're gonna make me cry....


I do believe we are seeing a start of another bromance here on TAM.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

nursejackie said:


> Drifting on
> 
> I am so glad you are posting this thread. I am thankful that you listen to the excellent advice given and really take it to heart. You are doing everything you can to move forward for the sake of your marriage, your boys and yourself. It can only get better.
> 
> ...




nursejackie,

I admire the strength and vulnerability to write that post. I thank you very much for explaining how you felt. You have given me insight I didn't have before. Your post has helped me more then you will know. I wouldn't think of bashing you, and I hope nobody else does as we all have our crosses to bear. I thank you for your kind words of me, and that my words may have helped you in a time of need. Your words have done the same for me. Thank so very much!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> I do believe we are seeing a start of another bromance here on TAM.



Unfortunately, (take your pick me or bandit.45) I'm still married!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

Drifting On,

I just wanted you to know, When I first found TAM I was so lost & didn't have a friend in the world. you popped up & started talking to me. Words can't express how much you helped me. Our stories were so similar. I could relate to you, Because we seemed to react the same way. you were ahead of me. Having gone through what I was now facing.

You told me what was coming & what to expect. You walked me through every step of the way. I held on to your words like a life line & they guided me through the worst time of my life. I've found help from so meany on here, But you & Blossom Gave me the hope that I so desperately needed to go on.

I only hope that I can help somebody half as much as you've helped me. You hang in there & stay strong. This world needs people like you in it..

D & L


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Devastated an lost said:


> Drifting On,
> 
> I just wanted you to know, When I first found TAM I was so lost & didn't have a friend in the world. you popped up & started talking to me. Words can't express how much you helped me. Our stories were so similar. I could relate to you, Because we seemed to react the same way. you were ahead of me. Having gone through what I was now facing.
> 
> ...




Devastated and lost

I'm going to reveal a secret here to you devastated and lost, your writing style, your humor, your character, and your demeanor remind me of my sister. So many times I felt your pain and wanted to send you a big ol hug. In so many ways we felt the same way, reacted the same way, and fought the same way. From your first post I almost thought you were writing my emotions and feelings. I posted and we have formed a friendship, a friendship of helping someone in a very troubling time. You sent me messages to fight, to calm down when angry, and look at the bigger picture. I can't thank you enough for the help you have given me. 

I imagine you never knew just how strong you truly are devastated, but many times you have saved me. Each day I thank God, for giving me life, for entering people I've never met into my life, and most of all I thank God for watching over me. I am truly humbled by the support I have been so fortunate to receive from TAM, and I would like nothing more then to buy you all a drink, to have one night of peace and happiness for us all. 

As for Blossom Leigh, I can't say enough about her either, and she has helped so many here. I find Blossom to be a very intriguing and caring person with a heart that has no bounds. I will continue to fight in life and reconciliation, I will be the best father I can to my two boys, and I will be the best person I can. Thank you devastated, you have no idea how your words have affected me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

drifting on said:


> Unfortunately, (take your pick me or bandit.45) I'm still married!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I could probably go gay for Thorburn.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Thank you so much for your tremendously kind words drifting.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I want to thank everyone who has taken the time to read or post on this thread. It was suggested to me to start this thread, but I didn't know why. The why has been answered, I'm broken and I need support. My WW's affair has not been exposed to anyone except my sister and my WW's cousin. My WW has agreed and offered to expose herself to my family and hers. It was my suggestion to keep the affair between us.

The reason for this is how we are treated now by the two who do know. It is noticeable that they each feel awkward, and my sister had the gall to be mad at my WW. That really frosted me over and I guess I have held a grudge. Reading this thread I have decided to forgive my sister. I called her Friday night and then met with her in person. After making small talk I talked to her about how I feel towards infidelity. I told her it was unfair of me to forgive my WW but not my own sister. So I am coming to you as your brother, and I forgive you for your transgressions. You have seen your brother destroyed by infidelity, you have been both a WS and a BS, and you are my sister. I need to forgive you for my healing, so I can move forward. I want our relationship to be what it was, where we can come to each other in times of difficulty, or any time. We have resolved our issues and whole I'm jaded I'm trying to not be skeptical in trusting her. 

Completely separate from my sister, intimacy came up on another thread here. I stated my position on intimacy as that has also destroyed me. Two posters were kind enough to offer feedback, I respect them both but may need additional feedback. I will copy and paste my post from that thread here so you know how I feel. 

Thank you to all of you, even those who have not posted, you have all helped me tremendously. Here is the post from that thread.

I have spoken about the intimacy many times, probably to the point members here are tired of me posting about it. But intimacy had a high value with me, and because of the value and my beliefs I have struggled in this aspect of the affair with great difficulty. This is something that will require vulnerability between both your WW and yourself to work through.

My WW was my first, my only, and the only person I want to be with intimately. I valued intimacy greatly and I still do, however, sadly intimacy has changed for me and my WW. My beliefs growing up were that intimacy is the complete giving of yourself to you partner. Of all the girls/women I dated I did not feel our relationship ever hit that plateau of giving ones self. With my WW when I met her, I thought I had found that person to share myself completely with. 

Intimacy is not to be given away in my opinion, but respected, have emotions, share yourself completely, feelings of love, the opening of yourself allowing your partner to know everything about you. So I struggled when my WW gave it away to some POS who never cared for her, had sex in a van in a forest preserve, and obviously gave himself to whomever. Writing that actually felt like a dagger being driven into my heart slowly and taking the breath from my lungs. 

I thought my WW thought more of being intimate, thought more when I would look into her eyes and feel the love between us. It is the most beautiful moment in a relationship of your expression of love, your expression of yourself, the giving of yourself completely. But my WW just gave it away like it was some cheap act between two people who really didn't even care about each other. How am I supposed to think about intimacy now? Does it have value? Meaning? Is it still a belief? Affairs change that, and yours and your WW's, perception of intimacy is now changed forever. 

What I went through and what my WW went through are different, very different. Our love is still there, but it's different. Our desire for each other is still there but it's different. Our intimacy is still there, but it's different. My WW is still there, but it's different. That's what infidelity does, changes everything. Can we get intimacy back? Will it not feel awkward? Will I feel safe during intimacy? 

In many ways I didn't want to lovingly touch my WW's body. I think if she can't respect it, how do I lovingly touch it? How does she now come up and touch me lovingly after being with another? I still have my belief with intimacy, I still value intimacy within myself, my WW is learning about intimacy. My WW is learning what she had, learning that it is the most beautiful expression between a husband and wife. She values intimacy now, not that she didn't before, but it has a high value with her now. 

Part of that struggle in the beginning is guilt and shame that the WS has to overcome. I am sure if you ask your WW she will tell you she is unsure if you even want her to touch you sexually. She is afraid you will think her and OM did this or that, and that she is thinking if the OM while with you. This causes the WS great pain in that they gave it away for such a cheap thrill. That they gave away the most beautiful part of they're relationship with you. She is hurt that you now know it had no value to her. This will make her apprehensive and give pause to touching you. In my opinion this is normal to feel, but very important that she be vulnerable enough to tell you these feelings she is having. 

You on the other hand, have it just as difficult as her. It's not something you can bond over because the hysterical bonding takes place disguising your emotions and feelings. Now that the hysterical bonding phase is over you are missing those true feelings of love while being intimate. You are missing that special connection you had before. You miss that she only give to you, that she is only wanting connection with you. 

While intimacy has changed for me we are starting to get some of that feeling back. But it has to be coupled with reconciliation, so don't expect that now. Since I am in reconciliation we are working on being closer, and as we become closer the feelings we had before do come back. However they are still different, but in a good way as you build your marriage back. 

It all takes time and you need to go through this at your pace, your schedule and your terms. Stay strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

The problem you are running into D.O., is that intimacy means different things to different people. I think you need to work on defining what it means to you, then ask your wife to do the same. I would imagine that, once the two of you compare notes, you will be shocked to find that intimacy for your wife has a drastically different meaning. 

I'm thinking she may not have the strength, integrity or moral constitution to provide you with the openness and intimacy you desire. You need more than she is able to give, or will ever be able to give. Maybe she never was able to give it, and she knows it, and perhaps that why she gave herself permission to cheat. She knew she was going to fail you so why even try? An inability to be open and share true intimacy is one of the standard hallmarks of a wayward.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you ever read His Needs Her Needs, or 5 Love Languages? It might help you guys.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

turnera said:


> Have you ever read His Needs Her Needs, or 5 Love Languages? It might help you guys.




Yes we have, we have discussed this book at length, it has helped us learn about each other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> The problem you are running into D.O., is that intimacy means different things to different people. I think you need to work on defining what it means to you, then ask your wife to do the same. I would imagine that, once the two of you compare notes, you will be shocked to find that intimacy for your wife has a drastically different meaning.
> 
> I'm thinking she may not have the strength, integrity or moral constitution to provide you with the openness and intimacy you desire. You need more than she is able to give, or will ever be able to give. Maybe she never was able to give it, and she knows it, and perhaps that why she gave herself permission to cheat. She knew she was going to fail you so why even try? An inability to be open and share true intimacy is one of the standard hallmarks of a wayward.




Before her affair intimacy was special, beautiful, and I let her know this on almost every occasion. I will need to talk to her to see if she feels I said those things because we had just made love. She has said that I meet her expectations and then some so I would hope she was open enough and that it's not what led her to believe she wasn't good enough. 

I will talk with her tonight and answer this mor fully bandit.45, but to answer before talking to her I'd be guessing. Thank you for this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

nursejackie said:


> And again …..Karma's a B!#@h……..please no bashing


No need to bash nurse. It isn't karma that has harmed you, your husband and your marriage.

It is the damage your actions and inactions have caused and continue to cause.

Your life and marriage will never be whole if you continue to hide your infidelity from your husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

It is different now because the reality of how deep this person can hurt you is now revealed. Ours is different too, but what I have found over time is our respect for each other is WAY deeper. We are no longer in the dark on the depth of our flawed personhood. We are both equally capable of devastating the other person, thus humility is also greater. We have each other's backs now in a way that was different before. That part is hard to put into words. Although the intimacy was purer, the comradarie now is stronger. And conflict is almost non existant in our house which is a freakin miracle. The love is richer without question and the intimacy is still amazing, its just no longer "blind."


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

drifting on said:


> I want to thank everyone who has taken the time to read or post on this thread. It was suggested to me to start this thread, but I didn't know why. The why has been answered, I'm broken and I need support. My WW's affair has not been exposed to anyone except my sister and my WW's cousin. My WW has agreed and offered to expose herself to my family and hers. It was my suggestion to keep the affair between us.
> 
> The reason for this is how we are treated now by the two who do know. It is noticeable that they each feel awkward, and my sister had the gall to be mad at my WW. That really frosted me over and I guess I have held a grudge. Reading this thread I have decided to forgive my sister. I called her Friday night and then met with her in person. After making small talk I talked to her about how I feel towards infidelity. I told her it was unfair of me to forgive my WW but not my own sister. So I am coming to you as your brother, and I forgive you for your transgressions. You have seen your brother destroyed by infidelity, you have been both a WS and a BS, and you are my sister. I need to forgive you for my healing, so I can move forward. I want our relationship to be what it was, where we can come to each other in times of difficulty, or any time. We have resolved our issues and whole I'm jaded I'm trying to not be skeptical in trusting her.
> 
> ...


Drifting On,

Once again you've described my beliefs. We have the same set of values when it comes to intimacy. I want to give you something to think about here. I hope will help you with your hurt about your WW giving herself to someone "As you said" that really didn't even care about each other, I've noticed in a lot of your post that, That bothers you a lot & that maybe if she had Loved him. Then it would at least give you a reason for her actions. 

When I confronted my H The first thing he said to me was, We didn't mean for it to happen we just fell in Love. I ask him do you Love her more than me & he said no, But I don't Love her any less. Knowing him like I do, Now I live with the knowledge that he held her face in his hands & told her how much he Loved her while he was making Love to her. It wasn't just sex for either of them. They shared that deep emotional connection, That only comes with Love. I held him while he cried over the hurt of give her up. 

Looking back now he says, He only thought he Loved her, But that don't matter to me, Because I know at the time he was with her, In his mind he Loved her just as much as me & he shared that with her. This is the most painful thing for me. That what took 34 years for us to build He could feel for somebody else in 6 months. What I would give for the comfort of knowing it was just a cheap thrill. I would feel the same way you do I'm sure. If it had only been A fling. Then I would think he just threw it all away for nothing. It's a double edge sword. 

My point here being. Infidelity is soul crushing. If she had fallen in Love therefor giving a purpose to it all. It would still be just as devastating just in a different way. It has also changed the way I feel about intimacy. How can it still be special if you can just share it with anybody? I thought it might help to hear the downfalls of both perspectives. I hope it helps you in some way.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> I could probably go gay for Thorburn.


Cheating on old Gus now? Tramp!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

How I wish only hard asses got cheated on!

Devastated, you are far too kind and loving for this to have happened to you.

Your WH and drifting's WW had no appreciation for the beautiful people they had as gifts.

I hope both their minds have been branded by white hot iron with the image of their defilement.

That the horror and terror of that image will forever haunt them and keep them on a straight path.

Hope and healing to you Devastated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> The problem you are running into D.O., is that intimacy means different things to different people. I think you need to work on defining what it means to you, then ask your wife to do the same. I would imagine that, once the two of you compare notes, you will be shocked to find that intimacy for your wife has a drastically different meaning.
> 
> I'm thinking she may not have the strength, integrity or moral constitution to provide you with the openness and intimacy you desire. You need more than she is able to give, or will ever be able to give. Maybe she never was able to give it, and she knows it, and perhaps that why she gave herself permission to cheat. She knew she was going to fail you so why even try? An inability to be open and share true intimacy is one of the standard hallmarks of a wayward.




Well last night was difficult at best, we discussed intimacy, and we have differing views on parts. We both agree that intimacy is special, beautiful, and totally giving of ones self. However, I held intimacy to a higher value, and that did hurt. I will probably keep what was said private but we do have a better understanding of how we both view intimacy. Many tears were shed by both of us and we were up until three in the morning holding each other. 

I woke to a note this morning from her. She said she is so ashamed, and hurt. She is hurting because she says she has destroyed me, the most beautiful person she has ever met. She is sad and feeling my pain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> It is different now because the reality of how deep this person can hurt you is now revealed. Ours is different too, but what I have found over time is our respect for each other is WAY deeper. We are no longer in the dark on the depth of our flawed personhood. We are both equally capable of devastating the other person, thus humility is also greater. We have each other's backs now in a way that was different before. That part is hard to put into words. Although the intimacy was purer, the comradarie now is stronger. And conflict is almost non existant in our house which is a freakin miracle. The love is richer without question and the intimacy is still amazing, its just no longer "blind."




It is very different now and that is sort of odd to me. The same equipment is used but it's like you feel violated at the same time. Kind of hard to explain as well as completely humiliating. I can only hope that I regain that connection, that passion, and that deep love once again. Thank you for your words and insight Blossom, you know just what to say and when to say it. God bless you and your family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Devastated an lost said:


> Drifting On,
> 
> Once again you've described my beliefs. We have the same set of values when it comes to intimacy. I want to give you something to think about here. I hope will help you with your hurt about your WW giving herself to someone "As you said" that really didn't even care about each other, I've noticed in a lot of your post that, That bothers you a lot & that maybe if she had Loved him. Then it would at least give you a reason for her actions.
> 
> ...



Devastated

I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your kind words and insight. Your post does help and I had not seen this perspective. I know this has crushed you too and the both of us stumble blindly looking for salvation. I have returned to God and lean more on my faith. I will not get an answer to all of infidelity but I should have enough to get through. I hope you do to, for you are a kind, gentle, and loving person who has given her all and stood by her husband. Kind of crazy that we have so much love for our spouses, yet it's difficult to make love with them. God bless you and your family, stay strong, and I know you will find peace and happiness in the future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> How I wish only hard asses got cheated on!
> 
> Devastated, you are far too kind and loving for this to have happened to you.
> 
> ...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

drifting on said:


> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> > How I wish only hard asses got cheated on!
> ...


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

DO,
I too share your view of intimacy and it is inexorably tied to the act of making love. The hardest part for me to comprehend is that it is not that way for all, in fact many. That is what the word "sex" is for. To describe an act between two animals each with little care or concern for the other. I believe that this is what your wife and a few other WSs experienced.

We are all at varying levels of development. Lessons teach us what we did not know before or could not see before. The secret is to learn. If we learn, then the lesson has served us well. If we do not then we cannot grow and are destined to repeat our foolish behavior. The intimacy you shared with your wife before meant more to you than to her because of her inability to grasp the understanding that you had.

Your wife appears to be one of a very few in that she seems to have genuinely learned from her experience. In reality, the intimacy you two will share now will actually be more balanced in that she now has a much deeper understanding of its meaning, more closely aligning with yours. Her level of comprehension and understanding has increased because of her experience. She is actually a different person and as such your relationship, including intimacy, will be different.

I hesitate to use the word better but that is what I feel is the right word. She is more aware, more connected, more concerned and more invested than ever before in your marriage. That is a good thing for the relationship. Why did she have to do what she did to become this new person? Why did my wife and so many other wayward spouses here? Why did they have to "learn it" this way? I do not know. Perhaps there simply was no other way for them to learn. In any event, the important part is that they did learn and they have grown in the process. Many, many WSs on here do not and the families are destroyed. In that aspect at least we are fortunate.


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## Am sammy 3 (Aug 10, 2015)

Devastated an lost, 

I could not have said it better!!!

~sammy


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

drifting on said:


> drifting on
> Worst night of my life Bandit, I met my sister about 9pm and left at 920pm, I drove around until I arrived home at 3am. It was the most hopeless I had ever felt, I grabbed my weapon and sat at my kitchen table, put the weapon under my chin tight to my adams apple and gently squeezed the trigger. The weapon jammed and I'm still here, I don't know if I have more to accomplish or if I'm to endure more pain.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




You are extremely lucky to have survived this attempt. I build firearms as a side job and having a loaded firearm fail to go off when the trigger is pulled is a very unusual weapon malfunction. Failures to feed or extract a round, etc. generally happen after the first round is discharged. Please make the most of your second chance. Also, if you have not already done so, please get rid of the firearms in your home.

If you ever start to have suicidal thoughts again, please see a mental health professional immediately.

Best wishes for a bright future.
WD


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> DO,
> I too share your view of intimacy and it is inexorably tied to the act of making love. The hardest part for me to comprehend is that it is not that way for all, in fact many. That is what the word "sex" is for. To describe an act between two animals each with little care or concern for the other. I believe that this is what your wife and a few other WSs experienced.
> 
> We are all at varying levels of development. Lessons teach us what we did not know before or could not see before. The secret is to learn. If we learn, then the lesson has served us well. If we do not then we cannot grow and are destined to repeat our foolish behavior. The intimacy you shared with youir wife before meant more to you than to her because of her inability to grasp the understanding that you had.
> ...




NoChoice

The more I read your posts the better I understand the man typing these words. You sir, are a true gentleman in every sense of the word. You post with wisdom and your wife is very fortunate to have you in her life. In fact anybody would be fortunate to have you in their life. I thank you for your words, for your wisdom, and for caring to people you have never met. 

Thank you NoChoice, God bless you and your loved ones.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Am sammy 3 said:


> Devastated an lost,
> 
> I could not have said it better!!!
> 
> ~sammy



Hi Sammy, hope you are doing well!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

workindad said:


> You are extremely lucky to have survived this attempt. I build firearms as a side job and having a loaded firearm fail to go off when the trigger is pulled is a very unusual weapon malfunction. Failures to feed or extract a round, etc. generally happen after the first round is discharged. Please make the most of your second chance. Also, if you have not already done so, please get rid of the firearms in your home.
> 
> If you ever start to have suicidal thoughts again, please see a mental health professional immediately.
> 
> ...



Workindad

You are correct in that I am very lucky to be here today. I am no longer suicidal but it was suggested by thorburn to remove all weapons from my home, as he believes I may not be out of the woods quite yet. I agree as I am still dealing with rage so I had my father take them temporarily. I have an IC who I can contact if I feel that way again along with the local hospital. I have also informed my wife so she is also looking out for me, no really she is! 

Thank you for your concern workindad, I appreciate the support. Best wishes that you have peace and happiness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> drifting on said:
> 
> 
> > Not saying you're a pvssy.
> ...


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## Am sammy 3 (Aug 10, 2015)

I'm doing a lot better drifting on, thank you for asking... 

It's been over 4 yrs out for me this May and I too went thur hell and back and too almost took my life 2x. Only this past yr really have I come a long way. I am so into the acceptance stage that it has been a life saver. I am so in the belligerence stage, of "how dare he had that power over me to bring me so low." 

I am so ready to get out of this drama and start to live life again. Im not at the jumping point yet, but Im pretty darn close to claiming my own life back again, ((as a new wonderful modern single women of the world)) who never ever thought would see the emotions and the heartbreak calm, or that would be starting over w a new life after 1 way for 30 years. 

I dont really know what lies ahead yet for me, but I do know I am not alone in this world as I do have my grown son who has gone through so much with me and has given me the strength & love not to give up when, when I really wanted to, even if it were going to hurt so badly him. 

But, I am no where near that person anymore, and life is actually looking like it could be good. It cant be good for me if I had to live with my h, as everyday I would be reminded of our hurt. It would build resentment. This is and the hardest part yet for me to cross, having to expalin to my h, that, "yes,I still really do love you, I look at you and I see sadness, but I cant live with you, nor love you the way you want me to in an intimate way, you took that away... " 

For me, I'm still afraid, that if I let go, Ill lose him... F.U. I know... 

Hang in there drifting on ...

~sammy


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Am sammy 3 said:


> I'm doing a lot better drifting on, thank you for asking...
> 
> It's been over 4 yrs out for me this May and I too went thur hell and back and too almost took my life 2x. Only this past yr really have I come a long way. I am so into the acceptance stage that it has been a life saver. I am so in the belligerence stage, of "how dare he had that power over me to bring me so low."
> 
> ...




You are a beautiful person Sammy, I pray that part of you never changes. Life has difficult moments, and at times you can feel flooded with emotions and thoughts and be completely overwhelmed. But you have fought to find yourself again, and I have no doubt much of you will return in time. I pray you find peace and happiness. Best if luck to you Sammy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sammy, are you volunteering anywhere? IMO, that would be the #1 best way for you to start moving forward - it has a HUGE effect on your self worth and self image.

btw, thanks for coming back.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

So last night wife and I were intimate since we discussed what our feelings are towards intimacy. I can tell you I was nervous and I had out this off for a few days, worried about the conversation we had. For the first time since her affair it wasn't awkward feeling and in fact I felt more connected emotionally than previously. I can't say it was like before the affair but more like making love. I can't tell you how happy this has made me as I felt this would never come back. 

Our conversation was enlightening to the both of us, and tears shed as we discussed what we believe I. Definitely a vulnerable time for us both, also a very emotional time as we held each other. I know it will never be the same, but it had to improve from the level it was at. I did discover that she does value intimacy and says this is when she feels the most closeness with me. She also shared that she didn't feel it was just giving it away as she had false feelings of love for OM. She understands that her affair was built on lies and deception, nothing more. I just wish she knew that before they had sex. 

She was very transparent and answered my questions honestly. I think we both discovered something new about each other. She did share that she has always known intimacy was valued highly by me. She explained that she knew this because we always made love and connected emotionally on so many levels. Hoping this trend can continue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

drifting on said:


> NoChoice
> 
> The more I read your posts the better I understand the man typing these words. You sir, are a true gentleman in every sense of the word. You post with wisdom and your wife is very fortunate to have you in her life. In fact anybody would be fortunate to have you in their life. I thank you for your words, for your wisdom, and for caring to people you have never met.
> 
> ...


You honor me with your words, Sir.



drifting on said:


> So last night wife and I were intimate since we discussed what our feelings are towards intimacy. I can tell you I was nervous and I had out this off for a few days, worried about the conversation we had. For the first time since her affair it wasn't awkward feeling and in fact I felt more connected emotionally than previously. I can't say it was like before the affair but more like making love. I can't tell you how happy this has made me as I felt this would never come back.
> 
> Our conversation was enlightening to the both of us, and tears shed as we discussed what we believe I. Definitely a vulnerable time for us both, also a very emotional time as we held each other. I know it will never be the same, but it had to improve from the level it was at. I did discover that she does value intimacy and says this is when she feels the most closeness with me. She also shared that she didn't feel it was just giving it away as she had false feelings of love for OM. She understands that her affair was built on lies and deception, nothing more. I just wish she knew that before they had sex.
> 
> ...


As you embark on this leg of your journey the two of you will now experience each other in ways heretofore unknown. Embrace this new era and be encouraged. I wish you and your family every happiness.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> You honor me with your words, Sir.
> 
> 
> 
> As you embark on this leg of your journey the two of you will now experience each other in ways heretofore unknown. Embrace this new era and be encouraged. I wish you and your family every happiness.




NoChoice

What you say is true, I'm traveling into uncharted waters, somewhere I have never been. I hope our love is strong enough to navigate us through, so that we don't hit a storm and lose our way. I can only control myself and hopefully she can remain faithful at my side. Learning from infidelity has been especially brutal at times, painful, devastating, and destroying. The process and path of reconciliation is very difficult. We have worked as a team, we have struggled as a team, and hopefully we learn as a team. 

Knowing you have no control makes this a leap of faith, a leap into which I have never travelled before. My wife is holding up well and I sometimes think that it will be me that messes this up. I seem to go backwards easily and my therapist feels as if I think everyone is out to get me. I don't see it the same way as the therapist, I see many things as people out to get me. Maybe that's left over from the affair, or maybe I really am still paranoid. 

I thank you for your kind words NoChoice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Am sammy 3 (Aug 10, 2015)

Drifting on, thank you for your kind words. @turnera too. 

Its it amazing they do the crime and we suffer the conquences...When I read your last paragragh drifting, wouldnt it be nice if our ww were writing instead, all of the same words? I know my h would kill for me to turn around and return to him, and often I think I am nuts not to. My life would be be so sane. 

~sammy

If your name is in bold blue, I dunno why


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

drifting, were you expecting people to not have your back when you were growing up? Before you met her?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

turnera said:


> drifting, were you expecting people to not have your back when you were growing up? Before you met her?



Turnera

When I began playing team sports in high school I formed some very strong friendships, friendships that are still strong to this day. However I was a different person back then and did many things that hurt others. I also did many things that fractured laws. I have changed my ways and now have an occupation that when I get involved they aren't happy to see me. I am lied to constantly and my view of the public has been jaded. When infidelity happened, that was the one who I trusted unconditionally and always thought would have my back. When it turned out to not be that way I was destroyed to my core. I have always had trust issues, paranoid that I would be turned in when younger, and now with my occupation paranoid that someone wants to kill me. 

It is what it is but I never imagined my wife would cheat. I was going along somewhat merrily until infidelity struck. Now I go along a little more careful of my surroundings. I hope that answered your questions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, thanks. So I'd suggest you listen to your therapist and ignore what's going on with her - those are HER problems - and instead focusing on finding your core, your peace, figure out who you really ARE. Expecting others to hurt you, as you know, will invade every aspect of your life. I know, I live with that kind of man. It's soul-crushing for ME; I can't imagine what it's like for HIM. Maybe study Buddhism, too.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)




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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

turnera said:


> Yeah, thanks. So I'd suggest you listen to your therapist and ignore what's going on with her - those are HER problems - and instead focusing on finding your core, your peace, figure out who you really ARE. Expecting others to hurt you, as you know, will invade every aspect of your life. I know, I live with that kind of man. It's soul-crushing for ME; I can't imagine what it's like for HIM. Maybe study Buddhism, too.




Thank you! I will talk to my therapist tonight, I will also look into Buddhism too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Thank you! I will talk to my therapist tonight, I will also look into Buddhism too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is your journey to find healing and happiness...the only person you can work on in life is you. You can grow and evolve and when you do your perspective changes, your worldview changes and your options change. Be the change you need to be.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Am sammy 3 said:


> Drifting on, thank you for your kind words. @turnera too.
> 
> Its it amazing they do the crime and we suffer the conquences...When I read your last paragragh drifting, wouldnt it be nice if our ww were writing instead, all of the same words? I know my h would kill for me to turn around and return to him, and often I think I am nuts not to. My life would be be so sane.
> 
> ...



No matter how remorseful my wife ever gets to be, she will never understand fully. I'm not saying WS's are ignorant or stupid, but they will never fully get the BS's position.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


>




Thank you for this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Thank you for this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You ar very welcome - face the future with hope my friend - make decisions from strength not fear


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> This is your journey to find healing and happiness...the only person you can work on in life is you. You can grow and evolve and when you do your perspective changes, your worldview changes and your options change. Be the change you need to be.




Thank you Truthseeker1, I have been struggling but I will find my way. This has been a huge challenge for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Thank you Truthseeker1, I have been struggling but I will find my way. This has been a huge challenge for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I sense the pain in your posts here and in Ckone's thread. It makes me sad when honorable men are treated dishonorably by their wives. I want you both to know you can take your future and mold it into what you want it to be. Perhaps it's time to make new friends, get a new hobby, etc...you need reinvention and evolution. Your previous life was torched but if you come out of this stronger , more focused on what you want and who you are the journey will make you a better man. Your wife is responsible for her redemption that is her issue - she chose to wallow in the mud for 6 months its not your job to clean that mess up all you can do it control how you proceed form here.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I sense the pain in your posts here and in Ckone's thread. It makes me sad when honorable men are treated dishonorably by their wives. I want you both to know you can take your future and mold it into what you want it to be. Perhaps it's time to make new friends, get a new hobby, etc...you need reinvention and evolution. Your previous life was torched but if you come out of this stronger , more focused on what you want and who you are the journey will make you a better man. Your wife is responsible for her redemption that is her issue - she chose to wallow in the mud for 6 months its not your job to clean that mess up all you can do it control how you proceed form here.



You are correct, and I hope that with IC I find the core of who I am. Many beliefs and values have changed for me, that has caused a trickle down effect on my remaining beliefs and values. I believed in many things that have now changed, my belief in God was destroyed, how could God let this happen? I have since regained my belief in God and that has helped me. I have been leaning harder on God even more lately. My belief that cheating was a deal breaker, only to find that once infidelity strikes, you change in that instant. At least I did, and I became a very lost person in a short amount of time. 

Those are only two major changes I've spoke of and yet so many other things about you change. In IC I have come a long way, but I need to travel further to become that better man, to become a better me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> You are correct, and I hope that with IC I find the core of who I am. Many beliefs and values have changed for me, that has caused a trickle down effect on my remaining beliefs and values. I believed in many things that have now changed, my belief in God was destroyed, how could God let this happen? I have since regained my belief in God and that has helped me. I have been leaning harder on God even more lately. My belief that cheating was a deal breaker, only to find that once infidelity strikes, you change in that instant. At least I did, and I became a very lost person in a short amount of time.
> 
> Those are only two major changes I've spoke of and yet so many other things about you change. In IC I have come a long way, but I need to travel further to become that better man, to become a better me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are still on your journey my friend and at the end it still could be a deal breaker for you. The road is a long and winding one but you will get there with the right amount of effort. What your wife does not realize is that her selfishness sent you on a journey of rediscovery that could very well leave her behind only time will tell.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> You are still on your journey my friend and at the end it still could be a deal breaker for you. The road is a long and winding one but you will get there with the right amount of effort. What your wife does not realize is that her selfishness sent you on a journey of rediscovery that could very well leave her behind only time will tell.




Some recent talks in IC were about my having one foot out of the door feeling. Divorce is on the table as it has been since d-day but it's not what I desire. However, infidelity has brought change, and that change has imploded on all aspects of myself, my wife, and my marriage. I question whether or not I will be in love with my wife after the change she goes through. Will she still be in love with me after I change? Will we both still love each other, love the changed us, and want this changed marriage. Although my wife is remorseful and regretful, doing all the heavy lifting, what if she doesn't love the changed me after two or three years. It really is a leap of faith as neither spouse can say they will still love you or be in love with you after the changes occur. 

Sometimes, and this is a rare thought, but what if these changes are too much to overcome? What if after three years I come to the conclusion I can't get past this? I have accepted the affair happened, I want to be with her later in life, but reality is I may not be able to. I hear people on this site say some BS are afraid to leave, have a fear of the unknown, but I see my reality as almost a fear either way. Divorce or reconcile, both may be a bad choice for me. I am not afraid of divorce, and in some ways it would be a wise choice. It would give me closure much sooner then reconciliation. My real fear is finding out in three years that reconciliation will fail and we divorce anyway. 

I can't control whether or not my wife can keep doing the heavy lifting and for how long. I can only control me and at times I question this as I don't know if I will still be in love with her after the changes. My therapist tells me my love for my wife is very deep, and she believes my wife is a changed person from the affair, she has changed to being a better person. Therapist says my wife's love for me is also very deep, but that our marriage may fail because of these little intricacies of infidelity that come together and kills the reconciliation. So far my therapist has kept me on the correct path to avoid these pitfalls. I just love all these little gifts infidelity gives you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Am sammy 3 (Aug 10, 2015)

Drifting, 

U sound soooo much exactly like me. Too afraid to really let go. I say all the same words and have all the same fears you expressed above. I too love my h very deeply, as he loves me too, in fact we even had our burial done to be buried TOGETHER !! 

So many what ifs. All I can tell you drifting, you have two choices, as I do to... we either put it all behind us, and start a new with our spouse, and built a new marriage with a leap of faith that its a clean slate. We never talk about it again, we make peace with it, and when all the awful thoughts come in to our mind, we chase them way because they dont belong in our new life. We get over it, put it in the past and as the experts say, "move on." 

Or we do move on, and we too put the past behind us. We also too have to accept. I always thought infidelity was a deal breaker for me too until it hit my marriage. Even though the second he confessed in my heart I knew it to be true. But he still loves me and I still him. 

Its been over 4 years, and he still wines and dines me, brings me flowers, makes sure I am well taken care of. Does what ever I need for my parents. 

I had forgotten my glasses, only had my contacts going on a recent vacation I was taking. Hubs was flying in from a trip (( he a pilot)) from Brazil, he flew in to the USA when he finished his trip, flew to New England, drove an hour to our home, collected my glasses, drove and hour back to the airport, then flew to Fla to meet me to give me my glasses, bought me mag on the way, then flew back to his home, to fly another trip the next day. I dont think many spouses would do this after just flying a 11 hour trip...This is just one example of the many things this man constantly has done the past 4 years after Ive asked him to leave when he had the affair. 

Ive never had to work, never was asked to work, has been given the world on a plate from him and all he wants to do is give it back to me because all he wants is for my life to be happy and good, and to exprience everything I possibly can. But he so wants to share his life again with me and me with him. 
He has tried everything he can to win me back and says he wont stop trying. 

I truly understand drifting, as I have a friend too going through what we are going through, and I see how bitter he is, how he treats his x-wife. How angry he is... and I think, hmmmmm, that the many guys that are out there that I may end up dating, or worst yet, end up my old age with.... 

But what the BS doesnt realize, as the other poster so truly pointed out, is the journey they put us on... the enlightment... the conflicts... its been a real real struggle for me to come to terms with my own belief systems. But I question myself everyday too of what kind of a person am I when I cant see that my h was in such pain that he put himself in such harms way... 

But sadly,I just cant look at him the same way, and and as vular as this may sound, I just cant wrap my head around letting him put his lips on me as I know exactly where those lips have been... I cant stop those mind movies, even after all this time. 

How long have you been out drifting? 

~sammy


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Am sammy 3 said:


> Drifting,
> 
> U sound soooo much exactly like me. Too afraid to really let go. I say all the same words and have all the same fears you expressed above. I too love my h very deeply, as he loves me too, in fact we even had our burial done to be buried TOGETHER !!
> 
> ...



Sammy

I am at a loss for words as you have described everything I felt. From d-day to now I think your post was written for me by you. I hardly know what to say, so I would like to respond to this after I digest this for a little bit. I will however answer your question, my d-day was January 20, 2014.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Some recent talks in IC were about my having one foot out of the door feeling. Divorce is on the table as it has been since d-day but it's not what I desire. However, infidelity has brought change, and that change has imploded on all aspects of myself, my wife, and my marriage. I question whether or not I will be in love with my wife after the change she goes through. Will she still be in love with me after I change? Will we both still love each other, love the changed us, and want this changed marriage. Although my wife is remorseful and regretful, doing all the heavy lifting, what if she doesn't love the changed me after two or three years. It really is a leap of faith as neither spouse can say they will still love you or be in love with you after the changes occur.
> 
> Sometimes, and this is a rare thought, but what if these changes are too much to overcome? What if after three years I come to the conclusion I can't get past this? I have accepted the affair happened, I want to be with her later in life, but reality is I may not be able to. I hear people on this site say some BS are afraid to leave, have a fear of the unknown, but I see my reality as almost a fear either way. Divorce or reconcile, both may be a bad choice for me. I am not afraid of divorce, and in some ways it would be a wise choice. It would give me closure much sooner then reconciliation. My real fear is finding out in three years that reconciliation will fail and we divorce anyway.
> 
> ...


 @drifting on The you that is making decisions right now might not be the you that will be making decisions 2 por 3 years from now. Just focus on your own improvement and see what happens.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Am sammy 3 said:


> Drifting,
> 
> U sound soooo much exactly like me. Too afraid to really let go. I say all the same words and have all the same fears you expressed above. I too love my h very deeply, as he loves me too, in fact we even had our burial done to be buried TOGETHER !!
> 
> ...



Is your friends x-wife remorseful? Is he in counseling?

The cheater never realizes they have changed the BSs views forever. Of course you cant look at him in the same way - he tore that veil away from your eyes and you can't put it back on. You have what yu have now. People can and do stay married but the cheater has changed the nautre of the relationship forever.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Sammy
> 
> I am at a loss for words as you have described everything I felt. From d-day to now I think your post was written for me by you. I hardly know what to say, so I would like to respond to this after I digest this for a little bit. I will however answer your question, my d-day was January 20, 2014.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Sammy

I took some time to really read and understand your post, what you have mentioned is really the choice you and I have, whether we like it or not. Perhaps one of the parts of infidelity I am most mad at is that I have to make life altering decisions that I should not have to make. I believed divorce should have been decided on mutually but now it is exclusively my decision. The timing of this decision? Well that couldn't be at a better time either. You are in shock, anger, devastated, destroyed, hopeless, and in the worst pain. But the fact remains you need to decide what choice is best for you.

My choices are what I feel forced upon me, I have to decide my best path. I made my choices, I am trying to move on but I struggle, and I know this is normal. Even if I never speak of infidelity again, I will never forget it either. This isn't by choice, and even if I could it would be foolish of me to forget what she is capable of. And that just may be the worst of all this, she is capable and has done it. No matter how remorseful, no matter how much she wishes she chose differently, she has done it. 

The pain has dulled in some areas and remains sharp in others, and in time I hope it all becomes dull. The best I feel I can hope for is that years from now the pain has changed to sadness, for that will make it easier to cope. 

I wish you peace and happiness Sammy, and best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> @drifting on The you that is making decisions right now might not be the you that will be making decisions 2 por 3 years from now. Just focus on your own improvement and see what happens.




I believe this is all I can do, so I continue IC and improve myself. I also try to correct my half of the marital issues. It's all I can do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> I believe this is all I can do, so I continue IC and improve myself. I also try to correct my half of the marital issues. It's all I can do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


NEVER forget whatever the marital issues were her AFFAIR is 100% hers and a despicable reaction to whatever the issues may have been. The choice to cheat is such a disproportionate response to challenges it turns my stomach when cheaters try to use them as a rationalization for their affair.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> NEVER forget whatever the marital issues were her AFFAIR is 100% hers and a despicable reaction to whatever the issues may have been. The choice to cheat is such a disproportionate response to challenges it turns my stomach when cheaters try to use them as a rationalization for their affair.




Fully agree, the cheating is on my wife one hundred percent, but I own half of the marital problems. So while my wife owns her affair and half the marital problems, it is correct that I own my half of the marital problems. Who knows, maybe if we do split I'll be a better partner in my next relationship, but I doubt I will ever marry again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Fully agree, the cheating is on my wife one hundred percent, but I own half of the marital problems. So while my wife owns her affair and half the marital problems, it is correct that I own my half of the marital problems. Who knows, maybe if we do split I'll be a better partner in my next relationship, but I doubt I will ever marry again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The difference is you didn't cheat - she did. The martial problems did not lead to the affair your wife wanting a thrill outside of her marriage did. That goes straight to character. You were both in the same marriage but only one cheated.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

Drifting,

I've read your posts, and the question comes to me, "Why" and "what". I wonder what marriage means to you in the general sense and then what this particular marriage means to you and why? 

Your questions about whether she will love the changed you and whether you will love the changed her are valid question, but they seem to be questions that presume a certain conclusion.

I view marriage as a result. its not a reward or nor is divorce a punishment. It is the result of a number of factors including but not limited to love, attraction, compassion, similar goals, commitment and trust. There are other things, but you have to have those bricks that I mentioned. Now, just because you have those things does not mean that you have to get or remain married.

The things I mentioned are the bricks, but there is also the mortar, it holds the bricks together. That is made up of a bunch of stuff and is really unique to each situation. It sounds to me like you have MOST of the bricks, but your mortar is questionable. Will it stick? Mortar mixing depends on a lot of other factors, so you have to consider those factors. I think your issue is in the mortar. 

If you were considering getting married to this woman and feeling this way, I'd say don't do it. Too many questions. Too many issues. Love will not see you through life. That's not saying divorce, it is just saying pull back on declaring that you want this marriage to work out and grow old together. Its too early for that.

I think that if you don't focus on the destination that you think that you want (marriage) and instead focus on the elements needed for a marriage, then you can better get your bearings. 

Sometimes your gut, your subconscious, your soul cries out and keeps you from getting settled because in the end, it knows that where you want to be is not where you should be or it knows that things are just not right for you to be there right now. 

I guess I am rambling to say stop focusing on the destination. Whatever destination that you had in mind was based upon your marriage as you believed it to be. Now that that has been destroyed, you get to go back and reevaluate the bricks, not just do they exist, but are they of good quality. Then evaluate the mortar. Then decide on your destination. The old blueprint has been destroyed and does not apply. Good luck.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

bigfoot said:


> Drifting,
> 
> I've read your posts, and the question comes to me, "Why" and "what". I wonder what marriage means to you in the general sense and then what this particular marriage means to you and why?
> 
> ...



Thank you for your response, I hope I get my reply to you in a way that describes the why and what. Marriage to me is very important for many reasons. I respected marriage by waiting with intimacy so my wife would be the only person I have given myself too. It is important to me that my marriage receive all I can give, just as my wife received. I have not been divorced so my marriage is my one and only, so is my wife. I have what people consider to be old time values. 

It has always been my belief that you marry once, give your all, and work through the hard times no matter how difficult. It is not easy for me to see that my marriage along with myself were destroyed in what I consider the cruelest of ways. I will need to rebuild, to get new bricks if you will as the others are broken. I will need new mortar to hold these new bricks together. Infidelity has caused havoc on why I want this marriage, but the fact is I do want this marriage for my beliefs. It has only been recent that I have seriously considered divorce. My faith in God was strong until infidelity, and in a way I blamed God, but I am finding my faith getting stronger. I am leaning on God more then before to deliver me from this he!!. The bible states I can divorce with infidelity as the reason, but my beliefs and my vows have prevented me from divorcing, for if I don't stand with my beliefs then I have nothing. 

I love my wife, I'm in love with my wife, and I will give her this attempt at reconciliation. Her actions have been commendable, tireless, and I respect what she has done to reconcile. She could have very easily walked away and not done the heavy lifting. So I will also work like she has and become a better person, a better me for me. I look to the future and I become uncertain at times, due to the changes in us, and our marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

I get your point. I grew up under strong Christian teachings, but not oppressively so.

When you said that you "want your marriage because of your beliefs", that struck me. Without going into a religious debate, I will say that infidelity is grounds for divorce. As they say, that's in the red letter part. Its not mandatory, but its permissible.

In any event, beliefs are great, but knowledge is power. Many times our beliefs are shattered because of new found knowledge. Faith and knowledge are not enemies, however. 

Your belief as to what marriage involved and was about was shattered by the knowledge of what you marriage was actually about. I suggest that trying to make your marriage work because of your beliefs is going to cause you a lot of struggle because you can't get rid of that knowledge.

the issue, as I see it from the confines of forum posts, is that belief and knowledge are at war within your mind. If you love your wife, not because that is what you should do according to your beliefs, but because you do, then that is a good thing. If you want your marriage to work, not because of your beliefs, but because you honestly do, then that is a good thing. The fact that your wife has done heavy lifting is fine, but marriage is not a reward for a job well done.

In short, faith and knowledge are not enemies. Divorce, under these circumstances, is permissible. I am not advocating that you get divorced; rather, I'm advocating that you chart your path based on your knowledge and true feelings. 

I don't doubt that you love your wife nor am I advocating divorce, I am just saying free yourself from constraints to make a choice.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

bigfoot said:


> I get your point. I grew up under strong Christian teachings, but not oppressively so.
> 
> When you said that you "want your marriage because of your beliefs", that struck me. Without going into a religious debate, I will say that infidelity is grounds for divorce. As they say, that's in the red letter part. Its not mandatory, but its permissible.
> 
> ...


With IC and self-improvement you will begin to evolve and realize that there is more than one option on the table and that you are strong enough to choose any option. You need to reinvent your life from top to bottom. You have strong beliefs in marriage - sometimes when partners have different views of intimacy and marriage the cheater knows they can risk an affair since there won't be any real consequences. I'm not saying this is what your wife did consciously but she knows how you feel about intimacy and marriage and still stepped out.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

bigfoot said:


> I get your point. I grew up under strong Christian teachings, but not oppressively so.
> 
> When you said that you "want your marriage because of your beliefs", that struck me. Without going into a religious debate, I will say that infidelity is grounds for divorce. As they say, that's in the red letter part. Its not mandatory, but its permissible.
> 
> ...




Before I changed from what I consider a bad person to what I am now I had these beliefs about intimacy and marriage. I learned how to be respectful of people, to be genuine, honest, caring, and even helpful. When my wife's niece turned fifteen we took her in. Her mother was having issues if you will. I taught her everything I possibly could, even how to drive. I told her you don't just give yourself away, respect yourself, and education is very important. She was the first in the family to go to college. She is a CNA now and still going for her nursing degree. I taught her to have beliefs, goals, and to have honor. The past thirty years I have lived helping others, living by my beliefs. Now I find I'm confused and struggling and trying to make sense of something so terrible. 

My IC has told me that religion will support me in divorce, and I understand that. I don't want divorce, I want this marriage to work, because the marriage is what I want. My IC understands my wife loves me deeply, just like I love my wife, but infidelity is so damn hard to I overcome. I hate that this has happened to me, I hate that she is capable, I hate the lies, I hate all of it. But it's what's happened, and some way I have to find my way through, I need to find me. I am at war in my head, I'm trying to find what will make me happy. I hate the pain that's caused because of my inner struggle, because I love my wife so much. 

I still have much work to do on myself, work that isn't going to be easy, but will hopefully bring me answers to my struggles. I thank you very much for your insight, and that you took the time to post on my thread to help me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Before I changed from what I consider a bad person to what I am now I had these beliefs about intimacy and marriage. I learned how to be respectful of people, to be genuine, honest, caring, and even helpful. When my wife's niece turned fifteen we took her in. Her mother was having issues if you will. I taught her everything I possibly could, even how to drive. I told her you don't just give yourself away, respect yourself, and education is very important. She was the first in the family to go to college. She is a CNA now and still going for her nursing degree. I taught her to have beliefs, goals, and to have honor. The past thirty years I have lived helping others, living by my beliefs. Now I find I'm confused and struggling and trying to make sense of something so terrible.
> 
> My IC has told me that religion will support me in divorce, and I understand that. I don't want divorce, I want this marriage to work, because the marriage is what I want. My IC understands my wife loves me deeply, just like I love my wife, but infidelity is so damn hard to I overcome. I hate that this has happened to me, I hate that she is capable, I hate the lies, I hate all of it. But it's what's happened, and some way I have to find my way through, I need to find me. I am at war in my head, I'm trying to find what will make me happy. I hate the pain that's caused because of my inner struggle, because I love my wife so much.
> 
> ...


Drifting on - I have a question if you had an affair now (not that you would) do you think your wife would forgive it?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Drifting on - I have a question if you had an affair now (not that you would) do you think your wife would forgive it?




Without a doubt, yes, she would forgive me, in fact she offered me a hall pass. Just offering the hall pass hurt almost as much as what she did, how could she not know I had what I wanted in her? I was actually hurt and insulted she even offered a hall pass.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Without a doubt, yes, she would forgive me, in fact she offered me a hall pass. Just offering the hall pass hurt almost as much as what she did, how could she not know I had what I wanted in her? I was actually hurt and insulted she even offered a hall pass.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Be careful about the motives behind the "hall pass offer" - thats more to rid herself of her guilt than to help you out....


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Be careful about the motives behind the "hall pass offer" - thats more to rid herself of her guilt than to help you out....



The hall pass is very foolish, and I would not be able to even entertain such a thought. I don't give myself away for a moment of pleasure, I need to be in love with the person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> The hall pass is very foolish, and I would not be able to even entertain such a thought. I don't give myself away for a moment of pleasure, I need to be in love with the person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What is your wife's view of intimacy?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Drifting, may I ask a question. I too am a Christian. For a period during my life I was not a good person. I carry a lot of regret from the things I did and the people I hurt. In fact it is my renewed faith and belief in God's forgiveness that brought me back from the brink. Having said all that here is my question. Why do you want your marriage to work? I mean from a Christian perspective I understand it. But from certain statements you've made I seem to get the feeling that you see the continuation of your marriage to be the default path. You say you wish the decision was not all yours to make. Why is that? Do you wish that someone would make that decision for you? You talk about your fear that the new you and the new person your wife may become won't love each other. But we continually change don't we? You aren't the same person you were and you are not yet the person you will be. The only difference here is that most of the time the changes are gradual and imperceptible whereas with infidelity the change is immediate and rapid. But changing is inevitable isn't it? I'm just curious as to your thought process.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> What is your wife's view of intimacy?




Her views are very similar to mine now, but at the time of the affair she believed she loved him, so it wasn't so much as just giving herself away. Now she sees how stupid that actually is but at the time not so much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

bfree said:


> Drifting, may I ask a question. I too am a Christian. For a period during my life I was not a good person. I carry a lot of regret from the things I did and the people I hurt. In fact it is my renewed faith and belief in God's forgiveness that brought me back from the brink. Having said all that here is my question. Why do you want your marriage to work? I mean from a Christian perspective I understand it. But from certain statements you've made I seem to get the feeling that you see the continuation of your marriage to be the default path. You say you wish the decision was not all yours to make. Why is that? Do you wish that someone would make that decision for you? You talk about your fear that the new you and the new person your wife may become won't love each other. But we continually change don't we? You aren't the same person you were and you are not yet the person you will be. The only difference here is that most of the time the changes are gradual and imperceptible whereas with infidelity the change is immediate and rapid. But changing is inevitable isn't it? I'm just curious as to your thought process.



I want my marriage for me, I love my wife deeply, I had previous girlfriends but I connected with my wife to a level I didn't with anyone else. My wife was deserving of all of me, and she is the only woman I have ever felt that way about. It is very difficult for me to call intimacy sex, because to me it's so much more. It's the giving of yourself, imagine that for a minute, it's the ultimate way for a man and woman to give themselves. For a man you are giving a part of your body, you are giving yourself, and for a woman you are accepting a man inside you, it's the most we can give to each other. No other physical act is more beautiful in expressing your love. 

As for the choices, no, I want to plan my life with my wife mutually and now our entire future resides in me. I didn't want this choice and that is what I hate about this, I hate that she has forced this decision on me. Do I want someone else to make it, no, it honestly couldn't be any other way. But that doesn't mean I like it, or that I won't be angry over it. I'm struggling, but I'll persevere and fight my way through.

As for changing, yes we change all through life, but the changes for infidelity are drastically rapid. I know in my heart I will love my wife forever, but I also know that I have to be in love with her as well. So my fear is that we aren't in love with each other as a result of infidelity. This has made the future fearful to me in that we aren't in love with each other as deeply as we were before. I know that can be argued because she had an affair, but I do know that she loves me very deeply. If this were not the case I would not have offered reconciliation. I hope this does not become a focal point as even from my posts the entire story or the knowing of us is limited to these posts. But I have been hurt severely and lost my way, that does not mean I won't come back or not make it through. 

I changed, from my younger days, I've become a much better person, and I have atoned for my pain and actions. I am actually friends with some of those I hurt the worst. This change was gradual and not overnight, but the change from infidelity was almost overnight. I will change gradually through the years of my life, as will my wife, but I never feared that before.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

drifting on said:


> As for changing, yes we change all through life, but the changes for infidelity are drastically rapid. I know in my heart I will love my wife forever, but I also know that I have to be in love with her as well. So my fear is that we aren't in love with each other as a result of infidelity. This has made the future fearful to me in that we aren't in love with each other as deeply as we were before. I know that can be argued because she had an affair, but I do know that she loves me very deeply. If this were not the case I would not have offered reconciliation.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well said,
I'm not trying to make this the focal point of your post, But this really caught my attention, Because It hit close to home for me & made me realize, This is a big fear for me as well. Maybe my biggest fear.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Devastated an lost said:


> Well said,
> I'm not trying to make this the focal point of your post, But this really caught my attention, Because It hit close to home for me & made me realize, This is a big fear for me as well. Maybe my biggest fear.




While I knew change was to be expected I didn't know the extent of the change. That is what has made me fear that we lose some of the in love feelings. I'm just going to say this too, but at the same time I feel like an idiot and weak that I have actually discussed this. I'm not saying this is anyone's fault but I just feel that way for some odd reason. Do you ever feel this way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

drifting on said:


> While I knew change was to be expected I didn't know the extent of the change. That is what has made me fear that we lose some of the in love feelings. I'm just going to say this too, but at the same time I feel like an idiot and weak that I have actually discussed this. I'm not saying this is anyone's fault but I just feel that way for some odd reason. Do you ever feel this way?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes I do, All the time..


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

drifting on said:


> While I knew change was to be expected I didn't know the extent of the change. That is what has made me fear that we lose some of the in love feelings. I'm just going to say this too, but at the same time I feel like an idiot and weak that I have actually discussed this. I'm not saying this is anyone's fault but I just feel that way for some odd reason. Do you ever feel this way?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm glad you are consciously aware of your feelings. It seemed to me that much of what you wrote was based on fear. I would like to say this, fear is a common response to infidelity. But when you can take your fear and use it as motivation you will be that much further along. For instance, if you know in your heart and mind that if the worst happens not only will you be fine but you'll be great. Knowing you can handle whatever life throws at you is a huge confidence builder. If you can get to that point you will no longer fear the loss of those in love feelings because your confidence will reestablish the male/female dynamic that cultivated those same in love feelings. You are the focal point. You are the relationship rock that stands fast when the storms rage around you.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

bfree said:


> I'm glad you are consciously aware of your feelings. It seemed to me that much of what you wrote was based on fear. I would like to say this, fear is a common response to infidelity. But when you can take your fear and use it as motivation you will be that much further along. For instance, if you know in your heart and mind that if the worst happens not only will you be fine but you'll be great. Knowing you can handle whatever life throws at you is a huge confidence builder. If you can get to that point you will no longer fear the loss of those in love feelings because your confidence will reestablish the male/female dynamic that cultivated those same in love feelings. You are the focal point. You are the relationship rock that stands fast when the storms rage around you.





Thank you for this, my IC has kept me grounded with my feelings and I have not lost them. I understand I will survive a divorce but I would still lose the person I love the most.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

drifting on said:


> Thank you for this, my IC has kept me grounded with my feelings and I have not lost them. I understand I will survive a divorce but I would still lose the person I love the most.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sometimes the phrase "in order to save the marriage you have to be willing to lose it" seems counterproductive. In this case I'd say "in order to be happy in marriage you have to know you'd be just as happy if you divorced." Again it seems counterproductive but that thought process is the best way I know of avoiding undue codependence. Codependence is not only unattractive it's a marriage killer. It's very easy for a BS and even WS to become overly codependent after infidelity. A marriage is only as strong as the individuals in it. If both spouses are rock solid alone they can be incredible together.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

bfree said:


> Sometimes the phrase "in order to save the marriage you have to be willing to lose it" seems counterproductive. In this case I'd say "in order to be happy in marriage you have to know you'd be just as happy if you divorced." Again it seems counterproductive but that thought process is the best way I know of avoiding undue codependence. Codependence is not only unattractive it's a marriage killer. It's very easy for a BS and even WS to become overly codependent after infidelity. A marriage is only as strong as the individuals in it. If both spouses are rock solid alone they can be incredible together.



I can only hope we are not heading to codependency, I don't need any new challenges at this point in time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

drifting on said:


> I can only hope we are not heading to codependency, I don't need any new challenges at this point in time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In truth from your posts I don't believe you are. I only mention it because it's so easy to fall into that trap when you've been devastated like this. If I were to offer my opinion I would say both you and your wife are on the right track and as long as both of you continue to put forth maximum effort you have a real chance at creating a new and improved relationship.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I can't thank you enough for your posts and opinions. I thought that maybe from my posts you had noticed codependency traits and I became nervous. I have consciously attempted to stay far away from codependency. Ok, I became more then nervous, I went on codependency no more and took the quiz. I failed. But in my defense I answered I took the test twice and used different answers each time. I failed twice and they want me to buy in to their program. I opted not too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Sorry post #129 was towards bfree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Am sammy 3 (Aug 10, 2015)

Drifting, 

You speak of what happens if you dont like your partner after all u have gone thur?

That is exactly what happened to me. My h was very anal w $ and responsible. That is part of the person I fell in love with. Through out our mess he changed. Who he was, he didnt like anymore. So he started to work on change. 180 degree change. 

Examples such as going thur his 401 K like it is water, something hel'd never ever do, he's not doing so to living high on the hog, but paying down debt that we might have been carrying that was completly aok, and manageable, but now wants zero debt. Living life with a mindset, it now, not later, so put your worries behind you and live in the present. No worries! Live free, dont worry at all, as worry is a useless concern. 

Calling women, honey, sweetheart ((ugh)) bc he feels they like to be spoken to nicely instead of just normal. Telling off color jokes because life is to laugh with. No longer plan for anything, as the biggest lesson in any of our mess is that life can never be planned. Just goes where the wind takes him anymore and wants me to go with him. He is someone I dont know. He is someone I have to try to learn to love again. He just not the man I fell in love with as he changed through out our mess, emotionally too. I dont like who he has become. But many would probably think many of the chances are good. 

Last night during walking the dog, we bickered & bickered over stupid stuff. It went on all weekend as he was he visiting. It is so uncomfortable & exhausting for me, yet he see my kindness as,"see we can make it work, I dont think things are so bad." Its exhausting for me. Stressful. After all these years. 

Last night I went to bed wondering where did my little family go? At one time for many years all was so good. My son is 25, and I found an old diary of his. I opended the few pages that had anything on them, and a passage that fell open was written, "I dont remember my life before the affair." His life too is forever different than he ever thought, his many yrs ago. 

But you are right, there are changes that you just cant know for the future. I guess you just have to ask yourself, do you like her now. Can you live with the consequences of her affair? How will your mental health be effected. Can you live and leave it behind? If u separated for a time being will it help u adjust to life apart? You will never D your kids. But like my son says now," I am going to have to go to grandmama house, and grandpap house with my kids when I have 'em instead of grandmama & grandpap"s house. 

Drifting, there is a christian web site I recieve. Im not a "registered anything" but am a spirtual person, but this Christain wed site follows the bible as far as infidelity. It just an intresting read. Its called , the Divorce Minster. It may help you a bit with the struggles you might be facing...

... and surely I understand the struggle you are struggling with that it is squarely on yours shoulders right now, as what to do about the marriage. You caused none of this yet you are the one that has to make an unfair gut retching decision what to do about something that you had no intention of changing or aware of that was a problem, as u were just way aok with life as it was... topped off with anger, rage, and bitterness, as well as self esteem in the ****s, and fear that we will never be ok again with out this person,or marriage or life.Get it only too well. 

And finally on a better note, figured it out this weekend what issues Ill never over come. My hubby is simply resentful towards me that I wont forgive in his terms of forgivness, after all he has "given, & done for this family for 30+ years." I can see inside, he really feels when he was at his lowest ((affair)) that I abandoned him when he needed me the most. Something he said he would never do if roles were reversed. Inside he feels if I really love him as I say I do, then I should be able to take our marriage back and rebuild. As he so elegantly says, "ride the white elepant together."


The only problem, its me that has to forget I'm on that white elephant, and 4 years later, 24/7 it all hasnt gone away. I dont think about it like I did with tears and anger and rage, but i do think of it 24/7. Its more of a broken heart feeling and I must accept what John Whitter was able to write so well; "Of all the words of hand & pen, the saddest are these, 'It might have been.' "

~sammy


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Am sammy 3 said:


> Drifting,
> 
> You speak of what happens if you dont like your partner after all u have gone thur?
> 
> ...



From the bottom of my heart I thank you for this post, I thank you for your vulnerability, and I thank you for your courage. I have read this post three times, and I cry for the situation we both find ourselves in. I used to see vulnerability as a weakness, my IC has said it's a strength to show it. This will be my most vulnerable post I have written. 

Although I was completely destroyed by my wife's affair I am coming back to the person I was, albeit slowly, but I am recovering. If everything stays on course I will be a much better man then before, but I still pay a heavy price, I still have an uncertain future.

I have been with my wife for 27 years, 20 married, and I thought I knew everything about her. We finish each others sentences quite often, so we are connected emotionally, and I know every like and dislike she has. I can tell you what she will respond with to almost every question you could ask, so when she cheated I was asking myself, who is this? 

From that moment on I lay in bed with a stranger, a person I had never met, yet she looked so familiar. It's the same feeling you get when you are out and see someone who looks familiar, but you can't place who they are. You know you have met this person, but who and where you met them is lost in your head. You get frustrated, I know that person but from where? For the first nine months to a year I had no idea who I was sharing my home and bed with. 

I myself became very lost in this time, I tried to kill myself, just as my wife's affair had killed me. What was happening was all I could think, who was this stranger I had never met? Who was this stranger that I love? Yes I loved her, but who was she? I would come home and greet her and question myself as do I hug and kiss this stranger hello? But all the while she was so familiar to me. After reaching my lowest point my battle with being lost kicked into overdrive. I sank even lower into self pity. It is true that being suicidal is not your lowest point, trying to kill yourself and failing is a whole new low. Unbeknownst to me, I sank even lower. Not only was my wife a stranger, but I didn't even know myself. I lost most of my beliefs and values.

Finding myself has become a challenge I struggle with, each and every day I struggle with myself. It has been said I am at war with myself in my head, and that is correct. The affair changed everything about me as it did for my wife. I am suspicious or on guard now about everything, and everyone. If we go out with friends or to a party I watch every little thing she does. No, I don't think she will cheat again, but my guard won't go down. If a male approaches her I don't know at a party, I want to run over and hear their conversation. I know it's innocent, but once betrayed you question everything. 

I have accepted her affair, it happened, but I can't believe what we have lost because of it. We lost who we were, we lost our emotional connection, we lost our intimacy connection. Just kissing her now is like kissing somebody new, even though its that same person I know, but really don't know. We have love for each other that is undeniable, and now we see if we can love who we are after we change. 

My future is uncertain as is part of my past, yes your past changes with this too. I lived a lie, for six months I didn't have a wife, I had a person who was my betrayer. All that happened in that six months I now see as fake, so my past changed too. For two and a half years she didn't tell me she had an affair, so I see that as fake also. 

I live in the present and believe we can overcome this, I believe we have a love strong enough, but it's not certain if we love the changes brought on by this affair. I have been vulnerable to my wife as a way to build trust, and it's working. But this is not easy telling her my fears and hopes about the future. I tell her I hope she is in love with my changes, and I hope I am in love with hers, but we don't know how this journey will end. We don't know if the pat we are on is correct, we don't know what happens in the future. But before it was easier, true we didn't know the future, but we knew each other, and that changed. That is what has become so difficult, we no longer have that history together, we only have recovery as our history. 

Hopefully Sammy you understand my post, this is what I struggle with, and I will check out the website you mentioned. I thank you so much for your post, you have given me much to digest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Am sammy 3 (Aug 10, 2015)

I feel for any of the newbie when I open this site, as my heart breaks for 'em, as where one finds ones self is pure hell. I too tried to take my life 2x. Failed both times. Now am soooo very thankful I did. I look back now and I see my behavior & how I "allowed" someone else to break me & bring me to my knees, and now all I am hearing is how much I am loved and cherished. 

I believe R can work but only only if both people can put their ego, hurt, pain, suffering, blaming, and all the other sh** that goes with this journey aside, and both parties can look at each other and fess the I'm sorries to each other and both fess to never hurting each other again, and both really giving everything in their powers to give it their all to make it work because both parties so much want it to make it work because there is no where in this this world they would rather be. 

That use to be my marriage. But now it is full of mistrust, resentment, bitterness, sorrow, and thoughts of how could you? Why? Who are you? What am I suppose to do now? Did you not think that maybe I too really liked sex, and now find myself faceing a sexless marriage bc I cant stomach you touching me after you touching her. How am I to live joyfully? To laugh heartly again? To feel real happiness together? with him over and over saying how he will never give up because we were so perfect together. Ugh... 


I never ever even thought about infidelty, and when I heard about it, it was always, "oh I'm so sorry," Not now.. I weep inside, I cant imagine being a public person going through this. 

Drifting, talk with those on the R site who have made it thur, google people who make it thur and read their stories, most people do stay with a cheating spouse, because it is so much easier to just rug sweep and go on with life, and that is why most stay. Or most stay bc of kids, or $ or fear, or just dont know how to get out of it. I know for me, I really wish my hubby wanted to stay with his ow of almost 2 yrs. It would had made my life so much easier, or better yet, wish he had just taken his dirty little secert to his grave, & he had to live with it his whole life ((alone,)) than me. 

Hang in there drifting, sometimes it gets better, sometimes it doesnt... but it will always be there, it just depends on how you both want it to be. 

~sammy


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

bigfoot said:


> Drifting,
> 
> I've read your posts, and the question comes to me, "Why" and "what". I wonder what marriage means to you in the general sense and then what this particular marriage means to you and why?
> 
> ...


This is 1000% right. I love the brick and mortar analogy. It parallels the analogy I like to use of Extreme Home Makeover Marriage Edition that I clung to in my own situation. I knew we had to completely deconstruct the relationship prior to the affair. Knock it completely to the ground, haul off the debris, and looking at fresh dirt, then have fresh blue prints, and begin the search for the cornerstones that would start the foundation and one by one they started showing up as we worked through therapy separate and together later AND accept that ALL new construction zones are messy. I also knew that if we looked for those "elements needed for a marriage" and together choose to put them in place then we could confidently construct from there. In the middle of all of that my H gave his heart to Christ. Over time it has proven to reduce conflict SIGNIFICANTLY and create a loving, fun, safe home for our family. Remember we were not only dealing with adultery, but domestic violence and emotional abuse. The shift from just last October to right now is dramatic. So, my encouragement to you is when it feels like things are tough... some of this stuff turns on a dime.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

drifting on said:


> From the bottom of my heart I thank you for this post, I thank you for your vulnerability, and I thank you for your courage. I have read this post three times, and I cry for the situation we both find ourselves in. I used to see vulnerability as a weakness, my IC has said it's a strength to show it. This will be my most vulnerable post I have written.
> 
> Although I was completely destroyed by my wife's affair I am coming back to the person I was, albeit slowly, but I am recovering. If everything stays on course I will be a much better man then before, but I still pay a heavy price, I still have an uncertain future.
> 
> ...


Your reality was ruptured. 

It will rebuild.

Will it be the reality of the past? No

Will it be stronger, more authentic and less blindsidable? Yes

Your resilience is headed for a whole new level, as is your emotional agility. You will appreciate the new strength, regardless of the heavy price. Will you wish it on anyone else... not in a million life times. But you will make it..... and be able to heavily bless others because of it. :nerd:


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Thank you Blossom, I truly hope it becomes exactly as you say. Your words give me encouragement that we can once again have a beautiful marriage. God bless you and good luck with singing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> This is 1000% right. I love the brick and mortar analogy. It parallels the analogy I like to use of Extreme Home Makeover Marriage Edition that I clung to in my own situation. I knew we had to completely deconstruct the relationship prior to the affair. Knock it completely to the ground, haul off the debris, and looking at fresh dirt, then have fresh blue prints, and begin the search for the cornerstones that would start the foundation and one by one they started showing up as we worked through therapy separate and together later AND accept that ALL new construction zones are messy. I also knew that if we looked for those "elements needed for a marriage" and together choose to put them in place then we could confidently construct from there. In the middle of all of that my H gave his heart to Christ. Over time it has proven to reduce conflict SIGNIFICANTLY and create a loving, fun, safe home for our family. Remember we were not only dealing with adultery, but domestic violence and emotional abuse. The shift from just last October to right now is dramatic. So, my encouragement to you is when it feels like things are tough... some of this stuff turns on a dime.




Blossom I have no idea how you could make it through all of that. I can only tell you that your husband is a very strong man to change so much to keep the woman he loves. I think the both of you are so very blessed to have found and saved each other. I have thought you were a very special person from your posts and your husband is equally as special as you. 

God bless the both of you, warm wishes of health and happiness to you both.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Am sammy 3 said:


> I feel for any of the newbie when I open this site, as my heart breaks for 'em, as where one finds ones self is pure hell. I too tried to take my life 2x. Failed both times. Now am soooo very thankful I did. I look back now and I see my behavior & how I "allowed" someone else to break me & bring me to my knees, and now all I am hearing is how much I am loved and cherished.
> 
> I believe R can work but only only if both people can put their ego, hurt, pain, suffering, blaming, and all the other sh** that goes with this journey aside, and both parties can look at each other and fess the I'm sorries to each other and both fess to never hurting each other again, and both really giving everything in their powers to give it their all to make it work because both parties so much want it to make it work because there is no where in this this world they would rather be.
> 
> ...



Sammy 

I will do as you suggested, and I really hope my wife and I make it through. But I also hope this thread helps you as well, I am not the only poster at TAM that needs help, so my hope is you are helped as well. How are you and your husband doing now? Have you been able to heal at all? Your posts have me thinking you are very unhappy, and I get that. What areas do you feel that you need help with? 

I don't want just me to make it through reconciliation, I want everyone who chooses reconciliation to make it. Nobody gets left behind, I hope we can help everybody who reads this thread, so no worries of thread jacking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Am sammy 3 (Aug 10, 2015)

Thanks drifting, I am hurting, but, Ive gotten to where it really doesnt matter, because I have only two choices in all of this mess. Live with it or not. I lose either way in this marriage. It is what it is & Ill survive. Thanks for the kind thoughts. 

~sammy


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

drifting on said:


> Blossom I have no idea how you could make it through all of that. I can only tell you that your husband is a very strong man to change so much to keep the woman he loves. I think the both of you are so very blessed to have found and saved each other. I have thought you were a very special person from your posts and your husband is equally as special as you.
> 
> God bless the both of you, warm wishes of health and happiness to you both.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was conditioned to handle a LOT growing up. So that is part of it. By the grace of God, I have an innate strong personality, that is another layer. But the biggest layer is I have strong faith and took God at His Word not to enable the sin, but with firm resolve in the truth of what was right and making the choice in compassion/mercy to allow my H to choose better.

Thank you. I think he is too. He has done amazing work to stay in this relationship with me.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi Drifting,

I think intimacy and sexuality can be two very different things. I suspect a part of you was timid of being with intimate with your wife was an element of using sex to demean her. To in your mind view her as a 20.00 street walker. As a BS spouse there are times I struggle with the impluse to treat a woman with contemp and just four F them. (find, feel, F, forget) I don't because why I the adultery is on my ex and, in the end, no way defines me as defective, weak, or not worthy, my reaction to does. 

I always question the statement "I thought we where in love". I question not how you could feel that way, I question how does that justify adultery. A WS did not just have an affair. They commited adultery. To compare the two is like comparing a speeding ticket to a DUI with multiple fatalities. Bottom line I hear, I am a coward and don't have the strength to reveal the why to you, and perhaps not even to myself. 

Drifting, what issues did your wife share with you for why she was open to another man? Posters often speak of the WS needing to do the heavy lifting. That is only partially true. Often the BS has the burden to look honestly at their part in creating or allowing issues to exist in the marriage and address them though their pain and devastation caused by the WS. 

I recall a poster who's wife was unrepentant until her parents step in and shared the pain and devastation caused by her mother's adultery which occurred during the WS early childhood and which, like you children, had not known of. He stopped posting shortly afterwards so the outcome was never shared, but until her parents stepped up, ther daughters marriage was dead. Would you and your wife be able to do the same? What would your wife say to a WW daughter or son ? What would you say ?

Be well 

John


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