# Lost, don't know what to do next



## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

We been married twelve years, married young. Our first child was born a year and half into our marriage. I'll be honest, I haveNt been the best husband in the world. I've battle addictions to porn and depression. Never cheated in the flesh. We've had disagreements in the past, I'm not the best comunicator 

So my wife came home from a weekend camp with work, where she works with kids. I noticed when she got home, she was happy to see our kids who stayed home with me while she was gone with our oldest daughter. That night everything was one word answers, no please don't rub my back (she never turns those down), no goodnight kiss. 

The next day after I get home from work, she came upstairs said we need to talk: I'm want out, I've been thinKing about this for the last two weeks. I love you as a father to our kids, as a best friend, but I'm not in love with you. I've been emontionaly disconNected from you. It isn't anything you've done, intact lately you've done all I could ask for and helped with the kids, house, etc.


She said she has changed, said we don't have anything in common. Said Her life is now theology and her job, she feels more emotionally attached to that and the people she has met through work. 

I asked if we could start over, she said we've done that. I said I know but I was dumb and didn't realize how serious you were then. I told her I've felt like I've finally grown up, I don't know why it took until I turned 32. She said if that's what I need to do, I'll hold off on filing for three months. She said she wants to coexist as parents in the house, move our young boys to sleep in our room, and I in there.

My question, do I stand a chance at saving this? I'm really torn up, I've cried more in the last two days. I just don't get how she can go from letting me hold her hand, and rub her back. To nothing, she's passed out asleep, and I'm up tying this lost in my thoughts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Have you screwed up? Yup. However...

Mouth closed, eyes and ears open.

Work retreat? Suspicious timing if you ask me.

There is another rooster in the hen house.

You need to take a look at her phone bill and see if there is a number you don't recognize with a lot of contact. Do not confront yet. Whatever you do, don't ask her if there is someone else. Just gather information at this point.

In the mean time, kick the porn habit and start working on being someone that a woman (not necessarily your wife) would want to date; exercise; no alcohol; proper nutrition.

Sorry you are here.





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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

Start snooping - check her phone bill.
Sounds like she has been unfaithful.

Sorry.


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## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

Sex has never been a huge deal to her. She even said she could do without it.
She did say last night, she had thought this was the best. So she didn't have an emotional affair. 
I just don't get it, I realize we are two different people, with different interest. But she says she has fun while we are out doing stuff.


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## Brandy905 (Apr 3, 2014)

Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> she was gone with our oldest daughter. _Posted via Mobile Device_


If she is having an affair, I really don't think it was this past weekend. It sounds to me that she is a WAW. She has told you things she needed you to do and you didn't take her serious. She has disconnected from you. You need to find a way to reconnect, but regardless if this is an affair or a WAW you need to work on yourself.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> I could see an emontional affair. even when we were first married, sex was not a huge deal to her. She even said she could do without it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you are being naive. Sex might not be a is big deal when she is with you, but if she has made an emotional connection with another guy and is removing you from the marital bed, the likelihood that she is having sex with someone else is very high. This is her way of being loyal to him. 

From my perspective, you are done. Lawyer up and do everything you can to protect yourself; she is leaving, period. This three month trial period is bullsh1t. She is doing this to either line up her ducks, or let you down easy, but make no mistake about this: she is with another man and you are going to be the one to get screwed. Don't try to be a nice guy about this. PROTECT YOURSELF.


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## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

I asked if she has talked to any of her friends about this. She had talked to a couple of people who had gone through the D. And decide to stay in the same house, and co-parent. I just don't see how I'm supposed to do it. 
Tonight for example I got accused of sucking up because I made the kids school lunch... Talk about being feeling lost
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Ignore her words and do what is right. Also, tell her that if you do get divorced, the last thing you're going to do is co-parent under the same roof.

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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Tell her to move to the other bed. She is the one who wants to tear up the marital bed. I think there is someone else as well. Either way its time to put on the Big Daddy pants.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

Is it possible that she's starting to feel the effects of getting married so young? You all were about 20, right? 

I got married the first time when I was 19 and I knew exactly what I wanted (I thought). I'm 40 now, and looking back, the things I want and who I am is SO different from 20 years ago. 

It sounds like there was some space there, during your addiction issues, that allowed some distance to grow between you. Maybe you have been great lately, and maybe she does appreciate your efforts, but sometimes that distance can't be bridged once it's there. 

To me it sounds like she's grown and kind of figured out who she is and you, for whatever reason, aren't part of that for her anymore. 

I'm confused about the 3 month thing. Is this like a transitioning period? You should probably start looking for your own place and a lawyer sooner rather than later.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Imagine if John Wayne or Clint Eastwood was going thru the same thing. Do you think they would be giving up their bed. Crying begging all sullen acting? Try to emulate that personna even though you feel like your dying inside. I know this is an odd reply, but you will need to man up or you will get steam rolled.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

Oh, and is she suggesting you get divorced, but live together to Co-parent???? 
That's absurd.


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## Borntohang (Sep 4, 2014)

You got the "I love you, but I'm not IN love with you". (After her trip) You need to start snooping now!


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## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

That's what she was suggesting to coexist in a house. But be our own separate people. I know that's not going to work
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

look lost, i not sure what is going on in her head and not sure if there is something going on, but that aside, i would work on yourself, become and man and father you should be, ought to be, if she comes around great, if she doesn't then at least you will be the father and man you will look more attractive tot he next woman....the other issue, is that you better get the rules down firmly if you go along with this.


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## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

I had asked if I could meet her for lunch yesterday. I asked if we could start over. I know you can't forget bad times that has gone on. But to put them to the side for a little bit. She got upset be cause I asked in a public place. Then said if that's what you need to do to feel better, go ahead but I can't promise anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

FFS, isn't it possible a wife can fall out of love with her husband without their being somebody else?

Look, I'm not saying those who are speculating there's another man are wrong - they might very well be right. But come on - every damn time this type of thread pops up, that's the go-to response without any further information.

I get if somebody posts something like this and there are red flags all over the place. But this has none (yet). And I had a marriage that ended in this manner, and there WAS an OM, and no red flags prior to it. But every response to this, thus far has been "there's somebody else!" Ugh. That's not helpful to the situation - yet (and may not be at all, hopefully).

Anyway...

OP, it happens. You've been straight up and said you haven't been the best husband. You've also said that you were given a chance to change, and you screwed it up because you didn't realize how serious she was. Now it seems as though you're on your last strike here, and have 3 months to wow her.

Unfortunately, that's likely an insurmountable task. She already has her pre-conceived biases towards you - in other words, she's probably already made up her mind and the 3 month window she's giving you is primarily because she feels like she owes you. It also gives her some "down time" to proceed with what she's already decided.

Miracles can and do happen - so don't give up, but hope for the best, expect the worst.

Many of us have been there, some of us on both sides. It sucks, and it feels like your world is crashing down on you.

The best piece of advice I can give you is to prepare for it to be over - but not to give up until it's confirmed. Also, there's nothing worse than desperation in these cases. Doing all the things you haven't previously done just reeks of being desperate, and from your wife's POV, it's empty.

Your best bet is to be a rock. Don't argue and pick fights, and don't break down and cry. Make it appear like you're taking it with a grain of salt. Be active, leave the house and do things on your own, go for walks (with her and by yourself). Cook dinner a couple of times a week. Ask her how her day was. Refrain from anything sexual (trust me on this one). Don't buy her flowers, gifts, or take her out for dinner - all those things are cliche, and she'll likely expect it.

Bottom line - be a husband and a father and a friend, and don't make her think you're nearly as devastated as you may feel. But don't be callous towards her, either.

It's a tough balance, and you may have times where you break down, but make sure she doesn't see it. That's when those walks will do you some good.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

alexm said:


> FFS, isn't it possible a wife can fall out of love with her husband without their being somebody else?
> 
> Look, I'm not saying those who are speculating there's another man are wrong - they might very well be right. But come on - every damn time this type of thread pops up, that's the go-to response without any further information.
> 
> ...


If I am wrong on this one, I will grovel to you specifically, @alexm, and make sure to include what a lousy poster I am. But I don't think I'm wrong on this one.

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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Does she have any male coworkers? Did they go to the camp as well?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

Love how she comes back from the weekend and says her life is all about Theology now so give me a divorce. That's some God fearing woman you got there pal. Whether she is cheating or not why in the world do you want to stay living in the same house with the woman who wants to discard you as a man and a lover? You didn't take any vows to be a monk did you? No, you took vows to be a husband. And if she is too foolish to keep you as a husband go find a good woman that will.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OK there are a few things to address here:

It seems that you don't really know your wife that well - in fact, that is what she is more or less saying to you. You don't know what makes her laugh etc 


Now, given that is true, then you certainly wouldn't know if sex is important to her or not - it seems, as others have said that it is not important to her to have sex with you. But she could have and enjoy sex with the right person, correct ? 


You don't know if she has found the right person or not. If you want to fight for your marriage, this is the first thing you need to determine or rule out - so you snoop. You investigate (discreetly) to find out if there is anyone else. Of course she is not going to tell you straight off (mainly because she would still be checking him out herself - hence the lets stay in the same house for now). See the evidence gathering thread from Weightlifter for the best way to do this.


Next comes the rewriting of marital history which happens with both, wayward wives and with walkaway wives. All marriages have ups and downs and normally, you battle through them - you don't suddenly throw the towel in but suggest you stay in the same house. Hence everyone's suspicions that there might be someone else involved. You probably do need to work on yourself and the marriage but nothing justifies cheating.


You need to stop pandering to her and stop being weak - there is no way you can be divorced and living under the same roof. Equally you should not be willing to share her with anyone else. Also it would kill you if she started dating right under your nose.

So lay it on the line for her - explain that you are willing to work on this (after you have snooped and determined the facts) but she has to be willing to do so too - else it is divorce time.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

I'll hit the button to start the countdown until another man is discovered.

You can pick your time in the "you guessed it thread".

Only bit coins or TAM dollars will be accepted.
The pot consists of all bets less 10% handeling fee. 😀
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

She has both male and female coworkers. She has youth camp retreats with kids a couple of times a year. Where there other leaders with their kids.
She does have a couple western states meeting a year. I went to the last one. To take care of our 13 mo while she was in session. I noticed all the people that she was networking with. 
She mentioned that people who work positions like hers. Are either single and dive in and have no time for a family, or some have families and still are able to do it.

The previous poster is right, I don't know what makes her laugh, I be honest also that I don't know everything about her job, or Lutheran theology
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KJ_Simmons (Jan 12, 2016)

Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> Said Her life is now theology and her job, she feels more emotionally attached to that *and the people she has met through work*.
> [/i][/size]


mmm hmmm...:nono:


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

We are Baptist, so we never cheat, But seriously wether she is cheating or not, you need to assume you are going to be without her. Know that you can survive without her. Start working out, eat right, get plenty of sleep in your own marital bed. Dont let her see you mope. Be positive and confident.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

"She said she has changed, said we don't have anything in common. Said Her life is now theology and her job, she feels more emotionally attached to that and the people she has met through work."

her life is THEOLOGY and work?

I wonder what kind of theology she is studying. i wonder if her theology dictates walking away from a marriage (sarc)?

well brother, based on what you say, you did screw up and she has a right to be upset and take you to task, but you say you have changed.
i have to agree with the others that she is probably giving up too easily. 

that means either her head is in a bad place or she wants to pursue someone else.

she needs to get some better guidance for those theology courses. especially the marriage parts.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

farsidejunky said:


> If I am wrong on this one, I will grovel to you specifically, @alexm, and make sure to include what a lousy poster I am. But I don't think I'm wrong on this one.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I'm not saying you ARE wrong, nor is this some sort of contest.

I'm just saying there's nothing to go on in regards to that theory (yet) and that it certainly does happen that somebody can fall out of love with their partner - without there being somebody else.

It's just better to dig a bit before you get somebody all riled up about something, that's all. There are a handful of people (all good posters, all offering good advice) who go right to infidelity immediately, every single time without asking pertinent questions.

Sometimes it's pretty obvious. Some times it's not. In this thread, thus far, all I've seen is a man who has admitted he wasn't a very good husband and who didn't take his previous warning seriously, and a wife who's fed up with it. You might say that's a red flag, and I wouldn't disagree with you. But it's only one red flag.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> I asked if she has talked to any of her friends about this. She had talked to a couple of people who had gone through the D. And decide to stay in the same house, and co-parent. I just don't see how I'm supposed to do it.
> Tonight for example I got accused of sucking up because I made the kids school lunch... Talk about being feeling lost
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Would she talk to a friend like that?

She is lying to you.

She has a good probability of being at least emotionally invested elsewhere.

I have seen the exact words verbatim from a cheating wife irl.

Just because sex has been an issue in your marriage and she says she can live without it doesn't mean she isn't cheating.

Give her a D but not on her terms.

Look up the 180 and do it religiously.

She wants you to be her babysitter while she gets her freak on.

She may not have gone physical yet but that is absolutely her intention.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Lost,

See bolded text below. 

It's impossible to help, without knowing what your day to day is like. Theres the mechanics of life: money and house work and child care and schedules. And the intangibles which are all about how we FEEL around the other person. 

When she's had a bad day, does she find your presence soothing? When she's had a good day, does she want to share it with you? Are you a happy / playful person, or an anxious, worried presence in her life. 

Who is the primary bread winner? And what has happened between her wanting to have a 4th child with you and now wanting a divorce? 

Are you controlling? Does she think you are? Is she really indifferent to sex? Or indifferent to sex with you? 






Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> We been married twelve years, married young. Our first child was born a year and half into our marriage. I'll be honest, I haveNt been the best husband in the world. I've battle addictions to porn and depression. Never cheated in the flesh. We've had disagreements in the past, I'm not the best comunicator
> 
> So my wife came home from a weekend camp with work, where she works with kids. I noticed when she got home, she was happy to see our kids who stayed home with me while she was gone with our oldest daughter. That night everything was one word answers, no please don't rub my back (she never turns those down), no goodnight kiss.
> 
> ...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

1)She comes back from an overnight trip and is cold, distant, and won't let him touch her ALL OF A SUDDEN.
Who did she see or meet on the trip?

2) the next day he gets the ILYBINILWY speech.

3) she kicks his arse out of the marriage bed (dang OP, you let your wife kick you out of the bed for no reason???). She even said you were doing things good lately!

4) she is obviously going to lots of overnight or away from home events while OP keeps the kids.

5) her phone is password protected, right OP???

So how many red flags does one need besides getting kicked out of the marriage bed for no apparent reason?

It's obvious to me. She's emotionally invested with someone else. Probably someone on these trips.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

MEM11363 said:


> Lost,
> 
> See bolded text below.
> 
> ...


Currently I work six days a week with Saturday off, every other week I get Saturday and Sunday off. I work for a railroad I'm lucky knock 
On wood this is a regular schedule. Unfortunately I have to be at work at 0600 we are done when our work is done. That can be 10am to 6pm lately we have had good days.

Which means she has to drive the two oldest to school the oldest boy Gos to preschool where she works. She drives the youngest to daycare. She works Monday from home, Tuesday Through Thursday she goes in to the office, all day. Does a circle trip to pick up the kids. I've offered to pick up the kids for her, when I've had early days at work. However she usually doesn't let me, she says its on her way home And it would be much help since its kind of a circle trip for her

On Tuesday, Wednesday and Sunday she works late has committee meetings, youth group, conformation, doesn't get home till around 8pm

I currently make the most in salary, I try to do some type of house work before her and the kids get home, I started making their school lunches on the nights she works late. I got accused of sucking up.

Our 4th child was born 15 mos ago. He was a surprise! She told me that if she wouldn't of got pregnant with him, she would of left then. She told me this when she broke the news.

I guess I can be controlling, and anxious, because I can tell when she's upset. Some times she say what's bothering her. I don't tell her where our how much she can spend. When it came to helping with things, I 
expected things in return. I don't tell her she can't go her or there. 

When it comes to sex, it felt hot and cold at times. When things were going good it wasn't bad. Once a week some times twice. when we got our forth while doing the pull and pray. Before and After he was born, she said that she wasn't going to be the instigator for sex. If I wanted it I had to make the moves, also told not to wait till she was almost asleep. she didn't like way birth control made her feel. I didn't particularly care for condoms, I asked if I could get snipped, she said no. Because she didn't want something that permanent, when we are both young.

Apologies for the poor writing above, my phone is acting goofy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Why do you think that she wants a divorce?

Seriously. The real reasons. 

I am 50-50 on whether she's met someone at work. But for her to go down that path - there was a reason. 




Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> Currently I work six days a week with Saturday off, every other week I get Saturday and Sunday off. I work for a railroad I'm lucky knock
> On wood this is a regular schedule. Unfortunately I have to be at work at 0600 we are done when our work is done. That can be 10am to 6pm lately we have had good days.
> 
> Which means she has to drive the two oldest to school the oldest boy Gos to preschool where she works. She drives the youngest to daycare. She works Monday from home, Tuesday Through Thursday she goes in to the office, all day. Does a circle trip to pick up the kids. I've offered to pick up the kids for her, when I've had early days at work. However she usually doesn't let me, she says its on her way home And it would be much help since its kind of a circle trip for her
> ...


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## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

I believe after so many years of letting the porn. Come back and forth into the marriage, along with the lies that went with it to cover up the bad habit that I had. She lost her ability to trust me. Built up resentment toward me, because I didn't see how much my addiction was hurt our relationship. I naturally pushed her away with my selfish behavior.
I never got up in the middle of the night when our kids were tiny, I snored right through it

I have been horrible at talking with her. Sometimes I feel like I don't know what to talk about. With her I don't want to keep talking about sports, I don't want to keep talking about work. My job is very, very routine the same thing everyday. We talk about the kids, honestly those conversations were short in the past, because I wasn't paying enough attention to them. I DO try and talk to her about her work. I feel lost and don't know what to ask, when I do ask a question about her youth events or how certain elements of the camps run. They are simple questions. We've been going to a Lutheran church for almost ten years. I still don't know all of the Lutheran Seasons of the church. From advent, lent, and reformation Sunday I know there is more.

I also believe that while I've been coasting through my faith, not involving Christ in my life. She has been fully immersed in her faith. While working with kids, setting up church programs children and youth.

She asked about eight months ago, maybe it's been a year now. If she could apply to be on a youth committee (non paid) but one that planned events for youth and senior high youth throughout our state.

I told her, that it would be awesome for her. She should apply and see. I knew it's what she went to school for. See is really good at it. I didn't want to say NO and hold her back.

She did get the position, and I feel like there is network of people who share the same passion for youth and senior high youth. As she does, and because that's not my calling, she thinks we don't have anything in common. I think she feels like, I'm holding her back.

When she helps staff these events, or takes groups to teach. I think she feels free from Life at home, she has a place at work were everyone there has the same interests and calling as her, like the grass is greener.

I meet a friend from our old church today for coffee today. He took a group up to the camp. He didn't know she would be there working. When he saw her, he said hi nice to see you. Who's watching the other kids this weekend? She said I don't care who, Rob or my mom is.

He said it just struck him as odd.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Read up on walk-away wives. Your wife is one. WHAT? There is NO literature on the subject? The single most important phenomena leading to broken marriages and NOBODY is talking about it? Odd.

But, as usual, you've got "she's cheating" covered. Do you all realize that this forum is WORTHLESS if every single situation has to have cheating involved? 

Could it be another man? Sure, it could ALWAYS be. But even if it IS, it doesn;t negate the fact that she fell out of love with him.

I'm just going to copy and paste this post from one I made yesterday on another thread. Another walk-away-wife. Another thread that shows ZERO evidence of infidelity but the "she's cheating" crowd sangout loud and clear.

Good luck to you. She's gone. They don't come back.

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MachoMcCoy said:


> No, she will never love you again. I chose to stay with my wife after I found out she had left the marriage emotionally. By the time I found out, I had already been on these websites long enough to have the realization almost immediately upon finding out that she wasn't coming back. It didn't take long to confirm it.
> 
> I almost immediately fixed all of the things that drove her away. NO WAY was I going to be the kind of person that could do that to someone I love. But she was gone. We are still together. We are friends. We laugh together sometimes. But she will never love me again.
> 
> ...


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## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

I personally don't think she's cheating, do I think she's not wanting to love me emotionally? Yes I do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> I personally don't think she's cheating, do I think she's not wanting to love me emotionally? Yes I do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So what faith could she possible be so immersed in that callously allows the destruction of a family? Isn't marriage supposed to be sacred? For better or worse, richer or poorer, till death do you part.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> I personally don't think she's cheating, do I think she's not wanting to love me emotionally? Yes I do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife went thru something similar no other man. She told me she. Didnt think she had the right kind of love for me anymore. Here is my advice. If she wants to leave let her. Be strong and confident or else you will be in for years of lonleynesss. The mistake I made was begging, and manipulating. That was 15 years ago. We are still tovether, but man am I lonely. No random hugs, no kisses no touches. Sex is mechanical. I wished I would have let her make her own decision without my manipulating the ordeal. I think things would be a lot better one way or another.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

PS. Read No More Mr Nice Guy, and Married Mans Sex Life Primer. Its not about sex. It has helped me some. How old is she?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> I personally don't think she's cheating, do I think she's not wanting to love me emotionally? Yes I do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Her checking out is the biggest issue.

I've been involved in organized religion for 19 years and I've seen "your wife" numerous times over the years.

Ruling out an affair with the information you currently have is incredibly naive.

You should still lay down some boundaries and extricate yourself.

Or you can work your butt off becoming a better man regardless of if she comes back to you or not while letting her know the door is open.

If you want your wife back, get involved now with her church and with her activities.

You can't ***** foot around this and hope she chooses you.

She has already left you.

Get in her life and win her back. It takes more confidence and boldness than you have shown so far.

Become engaged with her life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

I totally agree with you. I know all marriage have there rocky times, she said when you stretch ares out on a timeline, there are two many peaks and valleys. 
Part of me feels like this is a test to see if I'll take the easy way out or man up
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Its vitally important to assume a position of strength rather than weakness through this predicament.

Give her what she wants, but not on her terms, on your terms. 

Let her leave the bed and the house if it comes to that.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you che led the phone bill yet? If there is another man, his number will be on there a lot especially many texts. From the thousands of other threads here that are like yours, cheating is looking obvious. Especially if her partner is married.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Lost,
You don't have much interest in taking to your wife. Mostly used porn to take care of your sexual needs. You're clearly not in synch where religion is concerned. 

Why exactly do you want to stay married to her? 

I'm not poking at you, it's a sincere question. 

What drew you together in the beginning? 




Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> I totally agree with you. I know all marriage have there rocky times, she said when you stretch ares out on a timeline, there are two many peaks and valleys.
> Part of me feels like this is a test to see if I'll take the easy way out or man up
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> I am 50-50 on whether she's met someone at work. But for her to go down that path -* there was a reason.*


THIS.

WAWs don't happen in a vacuum and most of the time it IS another guy. Not always, sure, but why play Broncos defense on the cell phone? Coincidentally started a new job? Met a lot of new men, the late night meetings? Exhausted afterwards? The ILYBNILWY speech? 

She's cheating but even if anyone disagrees no sane person can say it's not worth a THOROUGH investigation at minimum. It would be colossally naïve to assume everything is on the up and up based on the all these red flags.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> THIS.
> 
> WAWs don't happen in a vacuum and most of the time it IS another guy. Not always, sure, but why play Broncos defense on the cell phone? Coincidentally started a new job? Met a lot of new men, the late night meetings? Exhausted afterwards? The ILYBNILWY speech?
> 
> She's cheating but even if anyone disagrees no sane person can say it's not worth a THOROUGH investigation at minimum. It would be colossally naïve to assume everything is on the up and up based on the all these red flags.


Or maybe even the thought of another guy. Maybe shes thinking I deserve better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Thound said:


> Or maybe even the thought of another guy. Maybe shes thinking I deserve better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You mean like an EA... never said it had to be physical. She's obviously lost respect and attraction for OP. Which makes her rip for another man plucking.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> *Sex has never been a huge deal to her. She even said she could do without it.
> *She did say last night, she had thought this was the best. So she didn't have an emotional affair.
> I just don't get it, I realize we are two different people, with different interest. But she says she has fun while we are out doing stuff.


This is what I used to say too, until I met someone who turned me on enough to have an affair. I had sworn off sex.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> I asked if she has talked to any of her friends about this. She had talked to a couple of people who had gone through the D. And decide to stay in the same house, and co-parent. I just don't see how I'm supposed to do it.
> Tonight for example I got accused of sucking up because I made the kids school lunch... Talk about being feeling lost
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, I'm beginning to not like your wife so well, now... 

Next time she pulls a stunt like this say: "Not sucking up, dear. Just practising for when it is just the kids and me living here, after you have moved out."

So, she is more into theology than her family? 

Hmmm. Maybe theology might have been into her in the form of a pastor or a camp worker?

Your oldest daughter was with her? Well, as she would have had your daughter's entire schedule and timetable printed out, she could have timetabled nookie time for whenever your daughter was far away doing some long "fun" activity.

Mom might even have arranged for your daughter to be away from the room on extended Bible studies or whatever.

"Love" will always find a way.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> You mean like an EA... never said it had to be physical. She's obviously lost respect and attraction for OP. Which makes her rip for another man plucking.


could be, but im thinking she may have an idea about some Mr Wonderful out there that she could look for if she wasnt attached.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

And she wants you to be her manservant looking after the children whilst she goes off and does goodness knows what? :scratchhead:

So, which would you rather be, confused? And good news! *You* get to choose! *Not* your wife!

You can be









Or you could be









Your future role is up to you. Don't let your wife define you.

By the way, nice how your theology bound wife responded to the fact that your depression has lifted.

But she probably has plans to make sure you are beaten down again. Hence the "be my manservant" idea.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Thound said:


> could be, but im thinking she may have an idea about some Mr Wonderful out there that she could look for if she wasnt attached.


She might even be keeping herself chaste and pure for a pastor or a work colleague.

Mind you, I recall a religious camp worker who returned from her camp complete with her new found Lesbian lover! Her boyfriend/fiancée was totally blind-sided and bereft, and her friends, my wife and I included, where shocked.

Over a period of several months she took up smoking -she'd always described it as a "filthy habit"- began to not care about her appearance, got some tattoos, gave up her faith and moved in with her lover.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> She might even be keeping herself chaste and pure for a pastor or a work colleague.
> 
> Mind you, I recall a religious camp worker who returned from her camp complete with her new found Lesbian lover! Her boyfriend/fiancée was totally blind-sided and bereft, and her friends, my wife and I included, where shocked.
> 
> Over a period of several months she took up smoking -she'd always described it as a "filthy habit"- began to not care about her appearance, got some tattoos, gave up her faith and moved in with her lover.


was her new lover named Peppermint Patty? sorry just had a Family Guy flashback.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Thound said:


> was her new lover named Peppermint Patty? sorry just had a Family Guy flashback.


Oh my... Lord! 

I kid you not. She looked *exactly* like Marcie and her lover -who we only saw once- did look *a lot* like Peppermint Patty.

:rofl:

Damn! This could be a photo of them!


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Thound said:


> could be, but im thinking she may have an idea about some Mr Wonderful out there that she could look for if she wasnt attached.


I mean ANYTHING is possible but the overwhelming majority of the time that's not how these things work. 

The cheat will attach themselves (emotional or physically) to the AP first before detaching from the spouse.

Cheaters are at their core selfish. The BS is plan B'd until they are certain plan A, as in AP, will work out. Very few will risk it all away for a "possibility".

In their mind, you're better than nothing but not good enough to not cheat on. You owe it to them to feed their ego until they can replace you.

Sick stuff.... 

I agree this is a WAW scenario but being a cheater and a WAW is mutually exclusive. You can be a loyal WAW or a cheating WAW. This wife has the stench of a cheat all over her.


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## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> Quick update, this week I went to the courthouse to see if she has filed, she has not. We talked Tuesday upstairs while I was getting the kids ready for bed. She asked what was going on, is this an act with the kids, being involved and helping? I said no its for real, she said you can't break the kids hearts again. What does that mean? is she wait to see what happens? Thursday we watched some tv and talked while I folded some laundry, then she feel asleep next to me on the love seat. I gently rubbed her arm to wake her up. She said goodnight and went to bed.
> 
> Friday she had a date with a girlfriend at the beach, afterword she said she was meeting a friend for dinner. I said okay have fun, I checked out her work calendar and saw she was having dinner with Josh. I goggled him, he is recently divorced pastor with two kids. At a church eighty miles away.
> 
> ...


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OK so its this Josh dude that she is emotionally (and possibly physically) involved with. This kind of explains a lot.

You need to go into covert surveillance mode, gathering as much info/evidence as you can and securing it. I would also plant a VAR in her car as per Weightlifters legendary evidence gathering thread.

Was she with this guy just before she came back and surprised you with wanting to split etc ?

Question for you: if she has been physical with this guy, would that be a deal breaker for you ? What do you want ?


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

Telling someone she has filed for divorce when she hasn't is way more than a "fib". It's an outright lie. Same as her avoidance with telling this new guy when you spend time with her. She wants him to think you and she are finished. Meanwhile, she placates you to some degree because she is trying to buy time to get her plans worked out. She's not willing to let go of anything right now if she doesn't have do - and she doesn't, because you aren't making her.

I think it's great that you are running and working out and bettering yourself. All part of the 180. Now that it is clear that she's seeing someone else, time to live for you and for the kids only. ALL of your time and attention should be focused on you and the kids. Certainly SHE isn't all that worried about her own kids, so they need you. God I hate hypocritical religious people who twist things around so the religion conveniently works for THEM. I can tell you I would not want your wife as a counselor for my teenage children in a church camp or activity. 

Don't rub her arm tenderly while watching TV. Don't watch TV with her. File for divorce (why are you waiting for HER to file? YOU file!) and move on with your life. If that knocks sense into her and you decide you can reconcile, then great. But if it doesn't you are looking out for YOU.

Women (and I am one) don't like men who are doormats. They don't like or respect men who do not stand up for themselves or respect themselves. The very first thing that turns me off a man is if I can walk all over him - then I'm done on all levels - sexual, emotional, all of it. And as for your earlier statement about how she doesn't like sex and can "take it or leave it", I promise you - that is not true. Women need to feel an emotional connection to want passionate sex. If they don't, then they don't feel it or want it. She hasn't felt that with you. But that does NOT mean that she won't be feeling it for someone else who she connects with emotionally.

Your only chance is to file for divorce and move forward, and see if it kicks her into a different mindset. You can't "nice" her into wanting you and loving you. But when she sees you move on, maybe - just maybe - she will see a strong man that in fact does NOT need her to be happy. And that is what she should see, because it is the truth. Whether she gets to be a part of your life after that, is up to you. Maybe you won't want it then, and I wouldn't blame you one bit.

Good luck.


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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

You don't know how big her web of lies is and what she has told other people about your marriage, she is lying to you, her friends and the suspected OM and most likely herself.

Try do find out as much as you can about the whole situation while you procede with filing for divorce.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Reading this, I couldn't really believe that she is a WAW. What didn't work for me was the fact that she came home from this work trip with an attitude change and the revelation that she was done. Something happened on that trip, I thought. That something was Josh, it appears.

She's moving on to him from her marriage. This is very dishonest and not particularly 'theological' of her. He's a pastor or something along that line? I would find out as much as I can about him and work to expose him.

Your marriage may be toast, but you aren't divorced yet. He has no business homewrecking and she has no business lying to you the way she is.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

I wil be PM-ing the lucky TAMster to collect their winnings.



Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> Quick update, this week I went to the courthouse to see if she has filed, she has not. We talked Tuesday upstairs while I was getting the kids ready for bed. She asked what was going on, is this an act with the kids, being involved and helping? I said no its for real, she said you can't break the kids hearts again. What does that mean? is she wait to see what happens? Thursday we watched some tv and talked while I folded some laundry, then she feel asleep next to me on the love seat. I gently rubbed her arm to wake her up. She said goodnight and went to bed.
> 
> Friday she had a date with a girlfriend at the beach, afterword she said she was meeting a friend for dinner. I said okay have fun, I checked out her work calendar and saw she was having dinner with Josh. I goggled him, he is recently divorced pastor with two kids. At a church eighty miles away.
> 
> ...


LAC, keep to one thread to get the help you need.

What you do from here on out is critical, there are some steps of action you need to take.

The people here have seen this all before, and you are really behind the 8 ball so get your listening ears on.

She has checked out of your marriage and is grooming your replacement.

This is cheating, its call an emotionsl affair.

Btw, the post below is just another version of "I love you but not in love with you speech"

It so close to 100% that I am just going to say when we see this the partner is almost always cheating.

This may just be the beginning but note the change in her.

Her willingness to lie to facilitate her affair. This is the new reality you have to face, we have seen it sink from here to unfathomable meanness, vindictiveness, and lying. You have neen warned, factor it in going forward.





Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> ill throw this question out one the ladies side: my wife said Monday that "she loves me as a best friend, and father for our four kids. But doesn't love me. She said I've been doing everything she's asked of around the house and with the kids. She said she cannot connect with me emotionally anymore.
> 
> A little bit of back ground, she has put up with me looking at porn multiple times in the past. I've stopped and have a handle on it now. In the past when I need you to step up more. I've done it, I'm 32 she's 31 I realize how childish I was in the past, with expectations of what I thought should happen. we just have each other not a lot of friends We both work full time, she works as a youth director for the church we attend. She has a lot of meetings during the evening when she gets home she's tired. With her new job she's made friends with other ladies and guys,
> My question is do I give her space, take care of the kids and love them to death, take care f myself by not walking around with slumped shoulders, to show her I'm okay?
> ...



So are you wantingng to hear some recommendations on how to proceed from people who have seen this many times before, or would you like to lag one step behind the slow motion train wreck that is about to take place?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Wow man so sorry. I feel like I would find out who the deacons of that church was and drop a dime on him. But that's just me.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I don't think it's possible to fix a marriage when there's another person sitting there waiting like a vulture for it to fall apart. First she needs to go no contact with the other man.

As for the rest of it, this isn't going to be as simple as you doing this or that around the house or doing everything she asks; it's about you being someone who anyone would find attractive; someone who is capable, someone who is interesting, someone who is not completely self-centered. You won't be able to achieve this by simply doing what she tells you to do because no one wants to be someone who has to direct their partner like a child who can't figure this stuff out for themselves yet.

I imagine what she finds attractive about this other man is that he is probably very on top of things, and he isn't doing that because a woman is in the background asking him to do it, he's simply doing it.

Whether this ends up in divorce or not, you need to step up and be in control of your life, not a slave to some addiction, or dependent on someone to tell you what you have to do to manage your life.


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## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

This dinner with this friend josh last night, she said that she was able to talk to him for two hours. She said we couldn't do that, because we like different things, I grew up baptist she was raised lutheran, said we don't believe that same things. Said I believe in main stream fixes WTF
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> This dinner with this friend josh last night, she said that she was able to talk to him for two hours. She said we couldn't do that, because we like different things, I grew up baptist she was raised lutheran, said we don't believe that same things. Said I believe in main stream fixes WTF
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What does that mean, you believe in "main stream fixes"?

Have you heard anyone in these last five pages who told you why she is attracted to him and not you, and how you can handle it going forward?


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## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

Basically tonight she said we have nothing in common, she can have a two hour conversation with this dude, about church camps, sermons etc. 

She told him she hit the gym today (which she did) then had drinks with the neighbors, (which she didn't) we bbq burgers with the kids
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> Basically tonight she said we have nothing in common, she can have a two hour conversation with this dude, about church camps, sermons etc.
> 
> She told him she hit the gym today (which she did) then had drinks with the neighbors, (which she didn't) we bbq burgers with the kids
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What does she say when you confront her about the lies?


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## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

I haven't confronted her yet, if she knew that her messenger was on my tablet. She would lose it, when I snooped on her female friends Fb messages she lost it.

Some of this idle small talk is so simple minded, it feels like a high schooler. She wants conversation, but they are talking about movies what their doing tomorrow etc

She says I latch on to main stream fixes like: Dave Ramseys total money make over the movie fire proof, sometimes I think if it's good for everyone else it must be good. I guess her big difference is baptist believe you have to ask to be redeem or do good deads. Lutherans believe in "grace" through Christ heals our relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

Dude what did your last three post have to do with anything you're dealing with are you OK you got good people here wanting to help you and you blow them off... OP get your act together do with these people tell you to do so you come ahead of the sh!t...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Lutheran and Baptist - oh my God! This is unrecoverable! Sorry to be flippant and sarcastic - but c'mon really - how mature is she anyway ?

The bottom line is she is a faker - she is not really religious at all is she ? She lies at will and freely and easily. She is deceiving both you and the POSOM as well. That makes her pretty despicable! Her ugliness should be showing through about now (is it ?). 

Why would you want to stay with someone that is this ugly inside and immature too ?


The other [email protected] is a home wrecking predator possibly (I say possibly because he thinks she has split from you) - still if he was a decent "religious" person, he would back the fvck off and give her a chance to recover from whatever it is she is going through.

You need to gather as much evidence, get your ducks lined up (legally, financially etc), be prepared for an emotional upheaval and then expose and file for divorce. Blow up the POSOM with his wife and also in his ministry or church too - Lutheran my a$$! Expose this for what it is - a nasty affair that was enabled by their church!!! And then do the 180 to heal yourself while the divorce process kicks in.

You never answered my question: if she has already been physical with him, would it be a deal breaker for you ?


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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

Her arguments about religion are just BS much like many other arguments cheating spouse make to justify their behaviour. She's just cherrypicking. She is breaking her marriage vows, she has at least an EA with a pastor and she is lying like crazy to everyone. I can't remember these sorts of behaviour being condoned in the bible (maybe she has another edition if she says that lutheran and baptists are waaaaay different.....). Btw I'm an atheist so I don't believe in any of this but I always find the bigotry of some "religious" people amusing.


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## Lostandhurtandconfused (Mar 2, 2016)

She hasn't been physical with him, it's that time of the month. I mean that wouldn't stop you but that is nasty. 
I know that he told her at dinner that he was involved with this other woman. He couldn't date to people at once. What a curtious thing to say

It wouldn't be a deal breaker, it would definitely painful. I don't know what I would actually do if it happened
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

​
Not that it matters, but there isn't a lot of difference between Lutherns and Baptist. Both doctrines believe in salvation thru grace alone. Lutherns do drink and Baptist act like they don't. Both denominations believe in a personal relationship with Christ. In my opinion, your wife is practicing piety.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

You know there is a way to talk to her without telling her you know, also you might want to remind her that all religions are man made, do you honestly think that the word of God is that different to every one, so what man makes man can un make, my point is this, remind her that regardless of the minut details of either religions, the oaths you both took in the name of God is the same, honor, cherish and commitment, that both religions adhore cheating, lying and deceit, for example if you were to discover she was cheating that would would be wrong in both religions, would it not....then tell her that is something in common in both religion, then tell her that you have the strongest things in common children, a shared life, a the commitments of change on both side.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> I haven't confronted her yet, if she knew that her messenger was on my tablet. She would lose it, when I snooped on her female friends Fb messages she lost it.
> 
> Some of this idle small talk is so simple minded, it feels like a high schooler. She wants conversation, but they are talking about movies what their doing tomorrow etc
> 
> ...


Baptists don't believe that.

Edit: Read @Thound post #71 above. That about sums it up. Lol

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Baptists don't believe that.
> 
> Edit: Read @Thound post #71 above. That about sums it up. Lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Just for the record I am a Baptist. I know we have our issues. :grin2:


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

He sounds pretty nasty to me - but how do you know that she hasn't been physical with him before this - before "that time of the month".

She is clearly in an affair and you suspect it is emotional at this stage although nothing you have said rules out it being physical. And using religion to justify cheating is pathetic!

The reason I asked if it was a deal breaker was to know what you would do next.

You saying it is not a deal breaker tells me that you are truly lost at the moment - of course it should be a deal breaker! And at the moment it sounds like you are not ready to do what you need to do! And that is also something you need to work on.

If she is fvcking another man or is prepared to, using the fact that they are both Lutherans as justification, you need to wake up and see how ridiculous that sounds. And you need to blow this up now! Get the evidence you need - VAR her car and that may tell you a lot very quickly. Getting to know the truth sooner rather than later can save you a lot of angst and is better for your health/wellbeing.

Please man up before it is too late. Being weak will make you even more unattractive to her.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Thound said:


> Just for the record I am a Baptist. I know we have our issues. :grin2:


I am bapticostal, or in lay terms, non denominational...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

So, you're about to lose your wife to a "true man of God?" What are you going to do about it?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I would meet him at his church today and tell him to stay the fu ck away from my wife and family or else. The more people around the better.

Look up the NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY , free download on google.

Also get the Mmslp book linked to below and follow the MAP plan.

I'm getting the idea you are chasing your tail in a circle while the other man chases some tail of his own. Do not act like a little man with no ba lls.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

YOU NEED TO EXPOSE HIM TO HIS PEERS AT THE CHURCH. He is dating your wife. Whether she has filed or not is not germane now. You need to stop this affair so that you and your wife can have a 1:1 discussion.

DO NOT TELL HER THAT YOU ARE EXPOSING


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Please listen to the men here and man up immediately!

She is lying both to you and to her new love. He thinks you two are in the divorce process. Confront him and let him know that that isn't true, that he is homewrecking. He is apparently not completely on board with her if he is telling her that he can't date two women at the same time. Let him know that she is not being honest with him and encourage him to back off.

If you want a chance you have to muster the courage to confront.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Youre not listening LAC!!!

Youre not asking the right questions!!

Youre engaging her causally about it against all advice!!

She is lying, you are buying it, and are staying dazed and confused!!

This will keep you polarized, and passive!

This is going to be one of those threads where an unprepared, and over confident OP documents one failure after another, ends up in an unfixable mess while woundering how he got there.

SMH.

Wake up LAC!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Mrs. Full of the Grace of Christ just went on a date with a "true man of God."

Do not buy her lies. She is already weaving a web of psychological abuse around you. Shut her words out of your mind. Nothing you've done in the marriage is an excuse for her choosing one of the most destructive forms of abuse, adultery.

You stand on the truth.... Her own selfish heart wanted this.

End of story.

Expose it to the light. Focus on your kids. You are their only stability now.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Sorry you are going through this. Your wife is dating another guy. What are you doing about it? Get a separation agreement in place or file for divorce. Don't go on trying to mend a marriage that she doesn't want.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Just my opinion, but I think if you convince your wife to stay with you she will be cold aloof and uncaring for the rest of your marriage. You will be living like room mates for your entire marriage. When you have sex she will lie there like a piece of meat until your finished. There will be no random hugs, touches or kisses. Does that sound like a fulfilling marriage to you?


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

I wanted to make this a seperate post.

LAC,

The major difference between the Lutherans and Bapitists as touching your situation is in the area of Christian Living (sanctification) not in the area of Salvation (Soteriology).

Both strongly confirm Grace, Faith, and Profession in Soteriology. 

There is a difference in the purpose form and method of baptism of course. 

The Lutherans follow the reformed churches in this practice. (Reformed churches, i.e. those who insisted that the faith as presented in Catholicism is missleading and needed to be reformed. Many were breakaway with no intent of reconciliation with the Chuch of Rome. Luther would have preferred to stay if possible. But he found "a burning stake at the Diet of Worms in 1521 somewhat un-appetizing" ha ha ha)

This (need for reformation) was primarily Soteriologica. Here we see Luther prostrate at the foot of a cross crying "für mich, für mich", "for me, for me", after he realized that Christ death and resurrection was both substitutional and fully propitiatory. That is, "He died in my place, and fully paid the price of my sin".

Martin Luther was a priest, monk, and university professor, an expert in classical and Biblical languages, philosophy and theology.

With all that the Bible was not in common use, theology was stuided. With some hyperbole Luther said that in the Monastery he had discovered a Bible, "a book he had never seen in his life before," and that he "alone in the Monastery read".


Luther had as he read Romans 1:17, “For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, ‘The righteous shall live by faith.’”

He says, “Here in it,” in the gospel, “the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, ‘the just shall live by faith.’” A verse taken from the book of Habakkuk in the Old Testament that is cited three times in the New Testament. As Luther would stop short and say, “What does this mean, that there’s this righteousness that is by faith, and from faith to faith? What does it mean that the righteous shall live by faith?” Which again as I said was the thematic verse for the whole exposition of the gospel that Paul sets forth here in the book of Romans. And so, the lights came on for Luther. And he began to understand that what Paul was speaking of here was a righteousness that God in His grace was making available to those who would receive it passively, not those who would achieve it actively, but that would receive it by faith, and by which a person could be reconciled to a holy and righteous God.

It’s what he called a justitia alienum, an alien righteousness; a righteousness that belongs properly to somebody else. It’s a righteousness that is extra nos, outside of us. Namely, the righteousness of Christ. And Luther said, “When I discovered that, I was born again of the Holy Ghost. And the doors of paradise swung open, and I walked through.”

LAC, there is no significant difference between the Luthern and the Baptist here, if you tried to walk in and tell them there was, they would laugh you right out of their "pot luck" dinner.

Where they differ is in santification.

Classically this difference comes down in the following statements. Btw these statements represent an older and somewhat dated mode of thinking, but they set the course of both, and they have remained fairly consistent, since.

"What the Bible dosen't specifically condem it allows".

"What the Bible dosen't stipulate it forbids"

Want to guess which ones the Lutherans adopted? Ha ha ha.

Listen I was baptized and confirmed in the LCA.
Later I was re-baptized as a professing adult in a Baptist church, and while not exclusively Baptist I taught and spoke extensively in conservative Christian churches/schools for many years.

If you went to an offsite meeting with a Conservative Christian Church in Germany, (in some cases onsite), and by that I mean not just Lutheran, when the meeting was over they would serve beer, its just their culture.

We all know Luther was a German right?

There is no reason a devout couple one Lutheran one Baptist should have anything but a respectful and harmounious relationship.

Especially since you obviously dont take your faith very seriously anyway.

She is the one using it as an excuse to divide your relationship, and in reality is pursuing what she feels she needs for her own happiness, as inordinate as that effort appears.

Dont get bogged down here, this is not the real issue, your problem is you are not that kind handsome and available Lutheran pastor she has the hots for.

I just wanted to lay these issues out a bit so you can discuss them intelligently and put them to bed before the good man of the cloth does the same with your wife.

You have some far more serious issues to address.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Decorum said:


> I wanted to make this a seperate post.
> 
> LAC,
> 
> ...


Wow impressive. And i was just going to say one was sprinklers and the other were dunkers, but yours was better.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

One more thing.

Your fundamental passivity is generating negative consequences in your life. Decorating your existence.

Your addiction to porn, negelect of responsibilities in relationships (children, wife), probably or eventually your health.

Its killing you!

Your guilt is justified, but you are thinking incorrectly when you accept other peoples wrong choices as a consequence!!!

No! No! No! You own your culpability, yes, but call them out on their choices, no exceptions.

Hypocrisy? Not at all. They must own their choices.

If she choses to divorce you, respect that.

If she says, "you neglected me and so I wanted to divorce you".

You say, "I was neglectful, I regret that now, if you choose to divorce me than thats your choice. I have no say in that."

Take no other blame than that, you are guilty of negelect, not her decision to divorce, or cheat.

LAC, your guilt is going to make you feel deserving of unwarranted blame for her actions.

That is damaging to you, her, and your children, stand up for the truth here. Dont live in fear.

Guilt drives blame and passivity. For both her and you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

OP, I noticed in one of your posts the movie Fireproof was mentioned. Am I not correct that the husband in that movie confronted the man that was making moves on his wife? Your wife is openly dating another man and you do nothing? Do you realize how disrespectful that is to your wife not to mention yourself?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

It's time to have a chat with Joshua.

He shouldn't be having dates with your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> He sounds pretty nasty to me - but how do you know that she hasn't been physical with him before this - before "that time of the month".
> 
> She is clearly in an affair and you suspect it is emotional at this stage although nothing you have said rules out it being physical. And using religion to justify cheating is pathetic!
> 
> ...


And I never realised that "that time of the month" would stop her hands or her mouth working.


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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> And I never realised that "that time of the month" would stop her hands or her mouth working.


A variant of foot-and-mouth disease, hand-and-mouth-disease. Symptoms manifest only if she's with a husband/bf she wants to get rid of and is miraculously healed in the presence of a holy man.

In all seriousness it seems like he is the one on the breaks and she would be all over him if he would let her. Exposing her lies about her filing for divorce and him basically homewrecking could end this sharade quickly. Then OP should file, watch the train wreckage and move on (or try R, up to him, but with such a liar?)


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

@Decorum great posts... love em'


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

I guess that if you're banking on her not consummating an affair with her boyfriend because she's on her period... then you're probably not being aggressive enough to stop this. 

I mean at some point the affair going physical is just an accounting error in the big picture of things.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lostandhurtandconfused said:


> This dinner with this friend josh last night, she said that she was able to talk to him for two hours. She said we couldn't do that, because we like different things, I grew up baptist she was raised lutheran, said we don't believe that same things. Said I believe in main stream fixes WTF
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Take your children to church and introduce yourself to Josh. Introduce your children to his friends and family if they attend as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
May I quote from a book with which your wife should have some familiarity.

"THOU SHALT NOT LIE." This seems relatively unambiguous.

"THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY." This one can be construed to mean only the act of coitus or, more liberally to include dating, socializing, flirting, disregarding one's family and spouse in favor of, and so on.

"WHAT GOD HAS JOINED TOGETHER, LET NO MAN PUT ASUNDER." Again, this seems relatively unambiguous.

"THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S WIFE." Somewhat straightforward.


This OM is a pastor? One would certainly be troubled that a pastor was unaware of the preceding but even more troubled if he was aware.

Your wife, by all accounts shared thus far, is not is not a religious person. She may be feigning belief but is not committed to any particular one. The Bible is replete with examples and scorn for those who do not honor the covenant of marriage and for those who lie. Your W is purposefully lying to the OM, perhaps in a twisted attempt to help preserve his honor by trying to hide that she is currently still married. Therefore he would not be cohorting with an adulterer but rather only with a liar.

I would seriously consider this behavior when deciding whether or not you wish to remain with this woman. Also, I find it deeply disturbing her statement when asked who was watching her children. "I don't know, my H or my mother"?? Your wife appears quite immature and perhaps not ready to be a mother. Alas, biology has made her one nevertheless.

All of that notwithstanding, I would certainly inform the OM of your current marital status so he can choose to pursue your W or not. You will then know his character. And if he persists in his pursuit then I would recommend you allow them to be together as it would appear they are "equally yoked" as it were.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Take your children to church and introduce yourself to Josh. Introduce your children to his friends and family if they attend as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Brilliant!! This!!! He is a professional and a public figure.

Remember to expose the lie that she has filed to him.

If it were me I would make it clear that he is never to meet or talk to my wife in any capacity hereafter or you will publically expose him.

Tell him if you hear of any improprieties (other than what he admits to now) he can count on you showing up from time to time when he is in the pulpit to expose him as an adulterer, even if you have to fly across the country to do it.


Do not meet with him in his office or a place of his choosing, avoid listening devices, the narthex should be fine. Have a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR) on you and running!!!

Your wife will be pissed, be strong, deep down her respect for you will be growing.

To your wife, "You may choose to cheat, but any man who plays with my family cannot expect to have no consequence!"

Good luck, time to man up!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

How are you doing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

You may want to have this thread transferred to the Coping With Infidelity (CWI) section. You'll get even more advice there.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

The conversations you have read, what does she say about you and what happened during your marriage? What she said is critical as not only is he bound to the 10 commandments, but as a pastor his role is support marriages and redemption of both spouses. This situation with your wife places his calling into jeopardy. Pastoral care requires strong boundries to prevent many issues, such as your situation. 

The question is are they being instructed by their faith or using it to create acceptance by their peers for an action and outcome they want. For example when christ drove out the religious profiteers from the temple. His actions where meant as a warning for those who follow him. But instead it was turned into an excuse to persecute Jews. Your wife is going into a deep fog. She will rewrite and add elements that never existed in a desperate attempt to justify her behavior. The greater the internal guilt the greater the need to demean you. Instead of focusing on herself, she needs you to be the bad guy. 

Some questions: why did his marriage end in divorce? Does his blog take questions for him to answer?


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