# Emotional Manipulation after Divorce-Need to Stay Strong



## Sparkles422

I have to start a new thread.

I need advice to stay strong. 

Now that house has cash offer, X has tagged along with my realtor and I for 2 days and I let him. Then I caught myself, had a private conversation with the realtor, and viewed an apt with just she and I.

Yesterday am, had a talk with X about EA and about my character defects throughout the marriage. I apologized, he did not. 

Then he began to talk about us, getting an apt, buying a house. Following this conversation, X and I discussed EA and my contribution to dissolution and he started to get angry.
When that happened it was back to separate apts.

But there is a change, no more obvious cell /texts to EA (gone underground? why bother we are divorced but I told him I was aware he was still in contact), talking and laughing with me. Joining my company etc....

Regardless of what is going on with X, I am still starting my new life as planned. I am just extremely puzzled.

Does anybody understand this?:scratchhead:


----------



## skinman

No I dont understand this at all... Your divorced ?? why put yourself through all of this guessing and trying to read between the lines.. Go look for apts. on your own and without him.. The decision was made to end your marriage. Live with the decision and move forward.. if things change later great, if not at least you will be doing what you need to move on.. 

I wish you luck, I remember how hard it was to give up on my marriage, once the papers were signed there was no going back..


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Sparkles, I am working on the topic of this post myself.
Ironically, instead of trying to AVOID mistreatment such as various forms of power-seeking and control in relationships, I am seeking out opportunities in which I am exposed to it from sources different than my husband.

WHAT? You say, why would you want to do that!!!!!!

Practice, my dear.

I went to a different ballroom dance place last night than I usually go to and it was great, but not the way you'd expect. My intent was to deal with all the various forms of mistreatment, because I would find myself being manhandled in various ways on the dance floor. I'm a beginner at dance, and this works TO MY ADVANTAGE for my purposes in this experiential training for me. Because, it puts me in a position where I have to either put up with being manipulated or to find another source of personal power to put a stop to it. I can't do it by engaging in the dance and trying to keep up or side stepping. I'm stuck. Well, I was NOT disappointed. Before the dance I asked an acquaintance, soooo, what can I do when I am being manhandled or find myself in an embrace I don't want to be in, that is disguised as 'instruction' which I didn't ask for? (A decent dance partner will dance to his partner's level and be very kind about offering instruction and then only introduce one or two fun moves that can be practiced...they will stop and explain and take you to a safe corner...etc. No SURPRISES, and always a CHOICE to stop.) Hmmmm, okay, I got a winner to practice with. I was able to neutralize him by holding onto his hands after a dance...in the middle of the floor, and to tell him, I am a beginner. I need to stick mostly to beginner moves BUT I like to learn new moves. In the future, when we dance, things will go better for me if you limit instruction to one new move that can be practiced. Otherwise, I will be overwhelmed and that is not enjoyable for me. I also found that a guy who followed all the rules and was an absolutely FANTASTIC dancer, was not enjoyable as he could have been, because he was commenting all the time on dancing and frame and improving things and whatnot. That's a different situation...at some point I will have to tell this guy, for one dance, let's stick to what I know already and just DANCE. I am smart enough to figure out that he is afraid to relate to the ladies with anything other than dance. It's a fine barrier, but it's still a barrier to dancing, and in that respect, manhandled. I discovered something very sweet. The guy who was able to teach me the most while letting me enjoy dance, we a short guy with a pot belly I could barely hear, with a nice smile...who was extremely stable with dance, sized up my abilities, probably WATCHED ME while I was dancing with other guys who could not get me through an underhand turn with a basic waltz...and then accomplished this feat (the waltz and I are not friends at all) effortlessly. Also cha cha, rhumba. The guy is a shaman, I am sure of it. I will certainly seek him out in the future at dances. It is not a romantic or sexual thing. It is an understanding of where someone's power source comes from. Yours and others. The best way to tell when someone else is not abusing power for control, is to examine whether you feel the need to exert power or control. The ONLY WAY you can do this, is to put yourself in situations where you will FEEL EMOTIONAL PAIN AND CONFUSION and be forced to deal with it. 

It doesn't have to be dance, it could be something else...have you thought about doing temp work through an agency? I did this for about half a year in Washington DC area and got some really odd assignments that were challenging in many different ways. 

The idea is to learn to filter out the laughing and bantering and whatever else is going on (dance, work...) to get to the basic heart of the matter which is the different ways people will disarm or blindside or manipulative you into a corner or metaphorical dark alleyway. This takes practice.

Go where the sharks swim. Try a bookstore or a music shop. Usually there are things in there that bite. You could also try speed-dating, not to get a date, but just to be exposed to how people portray themselves in the best positive light when only given so much time. 

The one person I did meet last evening who I enjoyed the company of, I told as soon as possible that I was married, and although heading for divorce and in fact moving out, I was still married, and only there for the dancing. He had pointed out to me while we were sitting relaxing on the sidelines together, that I had a 'fan' who'd been seeking me out and he thought it was for more than dancing. With this guy, there was no need to practice dealing with manipulation, it was a good way to practice not being a manipulator and to manage to send a clear message out of kindness, not out of personal need (except to be kind and respectful). I also demonstrated awareness when someone he was interested in approached him, I excused myself to get some water so that my seat would be free. 

Anyway, I do understand it. Avoidance is not an option, even when you leave a marriage you still have to deal with the kinds of behaviour you are leaving, if not from ex (and it doesn't seem like he will go away) then from others too. It is just that your ex is overwhelming and you have developed an insensitivity to how you react to his maneuverings. So it is better to seek out other sources of the same thing and to develop methods of dealing. I have even tinkered with the idea of suggesting to my stbxh that he take dance lessons, if he ever wants to talk to me or have a relationship with me, it will be somewhere I am used to dealing with that kind of behavior. I think he lacks the courage to do it though.


----------



## Sparkles422

Wow: I feel respect for your research and clinical anaylsis of preventing the same error to happen again.

This is my second divorce and I am looking at why I chose what I thought was a different man from the first but turned out to be the same emotionally. I will be careful in future with the help of therapy.

This X is narcissistic. He manipulates. The reason I am still focused on this is because the physical separation has not taken place. If and when, the final inspection is completed on my house, I will apply to the apt I chose and asap move.

The most important events in the last few days are:

I recognized manipulation for the first time
I agree with his X that he is narcissistic
I am still moving on with my life
I have re-erected the walls to not let him back in (after 2 days of puzzlement)
I have apologized for my character defects in the marriage

I am reaching closure in some form. I don't truly believe there is a reconciliation out there and I will be very busy for the next 12 - 16 months with move, school and new career and life.


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

You are definitely doing all the right things. I have been involved with 4 narcissists now so I need to be more serious about my 'fencing lessons'. Some guys in the breakroom were giving me encouragement about dancing...and how long it takes, stick with it. I said to them (they were older guys, like the kind that know they are older buddies, from the get-go, and I am okay with this, I was in the military, it is familiar turf for me) oh, I am not here for the dancing, the dancing is icing on the cake. They asked well what are you here for? I said, to work on my stiff upper lip! One of them said, well, I would never have guessed that, it doesn't seem like you need one, doesn't show, looks like you're having fun. I replied that's great, it's not supposed to show, now I know I'm doing a good job, and I do love the dancing. 

I am taking my training very seriously. This is about improving my life to the point where I can enjoy it consistently. When you become a parent, you develop an awareness for safety of your children. When you are allergic, you develop and awareness of allergens and how to avoid them or detect them in your day to day life, and how to administer immediate first aid when exposed. Narcissists are no different than any other known hazard. They come with many different covers...much like a novel will be published with different covers and editions for different potential readerships...and sometimes a film version, different languages...but it's all the same story. I feel that I can learn to detect and deal with narcissists the same way that I can pick up a book, flip through it, chat with a few people about it, read some reviews, consider the background of the author, all within about 10 minutes, and then decide I'm not going to read it, not even out of curiousity. Once in a while, I do read a book I don't like, as a member of a book club, and it reminds me of all the good choices I can make when not obliged to participate in something I agreed to do as a member of the discussion club.

One thing I noticed I do when engaging in a narcissist, is that I ride the signals I'm getting from him/her. That is, when the N acts happy, I engage by acting happy back to him/her. This turns off my thinking cap. My emotions have been successfully hijacked into happy mode. This over-rides fear of manipulation/sense danger mode. What I need is more practice mirroring the emotion appropriately, while sending another part of my brain into oversight mode to scan for hazards. Letting the two emotions (or more) co-exist together without needing to let one or the other hijacked or to be hijacked. To be present in terms of having to deal with the N, but to send your soul about 3 feet off center to keep an eye on things. With an N, you can only observe and be respectful of their personal power. You can never seek to control it, because then you will be engaged with it. This is how the emotional hijack happens. Observing is best from a shifted/off-center position in a safe 'place' while keeping from being sucked in. Geography helps regarding a new place, but it's just a start. Time, place...these are deterrents to the effects of a narcissist, but they are flimsy constructions at best. A N will always know how to get under your skin, and will continue to do so by knowing and keeping track of what is important to you as a defense/offense system. At some point physical avoidance is going to fail. All physical systems in life are prone to failure. Designing to operate under failure will keep life operational even in the presence of narcissists. Your instinct to keep him out of your new housing complex is a good one.


----------



## Sparkles422

Oh yeah: I am pretty good at survival but my hat goes out to the X. He was a bondtrader on Wall St and boy is he good. He discovers my weakness (dog) and goes for it. See that is all he has right now because the walls are up.

He tried to belittle my 12 step program by mimicking the slogans used. Of course, that didn't work but I didn't notice really at the time just sub-consciously. Oh yeah, he is very clever in an underhanded way, my cleverness is more creative in nature and not sneaky.

We all manipulate but it is to what degree when it becomes sick is the thing to watch over. When you want power over another, that is sick. When you want the other person to hang on with false bull, that is sick. When it is all about you, that is sick.

I am going to be VERY careful, I do not want anymore narcissists in my life. Yuck.


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

But, it is good to seek them out and engage them in practice. Because while you may not want to let them in the door, they are always knocking, so if you practice, you can send them packing more quickly, before they get their foot in. 

I LITERALLY had to toss a well-trained persistent wolf in sheep's clothing guy from my property one night. I had to tell him three times escalating my request each time...giving him the benefit of the doubt, but when he left, HE was the one who was scared enough to high-tail it, whereas I clearly felt in control and with authentic power, not just geographical since I kept him LITERALLY in the dark and at the bottom of a steep embankment with a deck railing between us on top of that, and distracted him by letting my dog out (he got engaged in showing that he could be friendly towards the dog...lol) Anyway, he really was a salesperson not a creepy intruder guy, but I was the only person among quite a few I talked to who had visits from this guy, who succeeded in not letting him into the house. Even though every single one of them asked him to leave, he got to his sales pitch. I pretty much called him a liar from the get go, stating that nobody representing my children's school district would show up at 9:30 on a summer evening with the excuse that my family is 'difficult' to get hold of. LOL. I know I am getting better, but my concern is being able not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Narcissists and difficult people are everywhere. Suppose one is standing between you and a career goal or a job you're entitled to have, or a place you want to enjoy but can't because of their presence? Avoidance is one tactic, but only one of many.


----------



## Sparkles422

Yes they are out there.

I have been reading and digesting information. I think that the most important passage I read and I will remember is not to react. Of course, this is much easier when we are not engaged in emotional relationship.

I am not totally ambitious about career. I just want the license so I may earn a decent living and have some for retirement. I will leave the ladder climbing for those that want it. I am not interested at this point.

It is too funny to hear antics coming from X on other side of house. Loud conversations on phone, closing lanai door with a bang, trying to get my attention because I have disengaged. I closed my door and if it gets too loud I put on my earplugs. I have appt at 11 and will be gone until 2 then lunch, pool laps and out again. This is only until the inspections are complete and approved by the buyer of the house and then I will move fast with packing and moving.

What a weird life!


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Even though our needs are minimal, they are still very serious needs. N's interfere with them because they can. Even though we take only our part of the pie, perhaps even less, they will still make us work way more than we should have to, to get it and keep it. Men who are like this are not satisifed with maneuvering their partners, they will do it at work as well, just for sport. :-(


----------



## Jellybeans

I think once you're not living with him, things will be so much better.

Research places/apts on your own. He's your ex now. Stop hanging with him.


----------



## Sparkles422

jelly: I have researched on my own that's how I got the realtor but I think I found the condo. It's dated but it has a nice view of a lake and my stuff will fit.

Tomorrow the inspection and then I will know for sure. If approved, then I will start packing. Maybe leave earlier.

You're right, physical separation will be much better.


----------



## morningdew

Sparkles, you are one strong cookie! I don't know how I could ever live under the same roof as my ex anymore. So give yourself some credit, it must've took a strong strong will to get through this and I'm sure you will! Best of luck


----------



## Sparkles422

morningdew: Yes I have recovered some of my strength and have found pieces of myself. X had stolen and soaked up a lot of me.

I firmly believe in a Higher Power, whom I choose to call God, has helped me through every step of this heartbreaking divorce. It was very quick when it came down (wholly me since MC was not what X wanted), 4 months.

I didn't even know what a narcissist was. Oh I knew the mythological character and the surface explanation but I did not know that they are emotional and financial vampires. 

Now, like Home, I can stand back when he puts himself in my company in the public space of our home, and I see his manipulations and shake my head wondering how I ever fell victim to his entrapment. He is empty and stole from me. That's a narcissist. Pray God you never ever have a relationship with one.

Recognize them and run the other way! They are predators.


----------

