# From Ok to as bad as it gets



## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

I think I blew it. Last week she had said she was staying, then she proceeded to cancel the next date night, and we had a big fight over it.

She started sleeping on the couch.

Then she went away all weekend again for a party, came home for 20 minutes and went to work.



She got put on call at 8pm, called and said she was going to hang around near work in case they called her in, she also said she could not make the counsellor with me- said she didn't see it doing any good, and did not want to reschedual. 

That got me upset, and she could sense it. My duaghter called her at 9:30pm to say good night, she did not answer her cell, and calledback 20 minutes later. She was on call till 11pm, but did not come home till almost 1am- said she was staying away to avoid fighting with me.

The next morning I asked if she was ever going to see the counsellor again, and she said no, and I asked her point blank if she wanted a divorce, and she said yes, but wants to wait to leave till after the holidays for the kids.

We sleep seperate, and I tried to talk to her last night, and she said there is no way she will stay, she is all done. I talked about how niether of us could afford the house alone and we would go bankrupt if she left. She said she didn't care, that material things meant nothing, and that her sanity meant more to her.

We took the kids to dinner, and I just decided to act upbeat, and it seemed to bother her, or maybe she was just worn down by all the fighting.

I told her I would do all I can to show her we can work it out between now and then, and she said that I have not yet, so why would I now?

I do not know what she wants but she keeps saying space, and I have tried to give that to her. But we have 2 kids, and a small house and I do not know what to do to give her more.

We are still planning a bonfire party at the house this saturday night, and she is thinking about a family day with the kids on Sunday.

What in the world do I do at this point?????

How do I win her back? Even if it means playing a bit of head games.

I had emailed to her that I feel she is not thinking straight, and by us seperating and divorcing we will destroy the whole ball of wax and the kids will pay for it. I told her that I loved her, would do whatever she needed to stay and work things out....its funny, she is still meeting me when I take my daughter to ballet tonight.

I told her we would not talk aobut things anymore, and I asked her if she would reconsider in January, she said yes, but in a blow off sort of way.

I am lost, help me, tell me what I need to do at this point.

Chris 

-from hopeless or not


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## Hurting08 (Oct 9, 2008)

Don't talk about it for a while. For one thing, you may have your head on straight and could be telling her exactly what she needs to hear, but it won't do any good coming from you. It needs to come from a neutral party that she respects. As of now you have a window of opportunity to live your life the way you need to and show her that you are capable of being the man she fell in love with. Whatever you do, don't smother her. Live your life and don't talk about it for a week or so and she may start to open up. If she does, maybe suggest a quiet conversation about the issue, then drop it again for a while.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

canders said:


> I told her I would do all I can to show her we can work it out between now and then, and she said that I have not yet, so why would I now?


You need to find out what she meant by this. Make it your priority.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

My wife is very logical- she told me she never regrets any decision she makes, and that once someone has screwed her over, that is it, she is done with them. And has proven that with others.

Been thinking of setting up a seperate bedroom in the office, as right now one of us sleeps on the couch while the other shares the bedroom, but I don't want to look like I am pushing anything right now.

Told her I know this is my fault up to the point, but I am willing to do whatever it is to make it work, so moving forward if she does not, it is her fault....probably not the smartest thing to say.

Been also thinking of starting to go out with the boys again, or just doing anything not to be at the house...going to a friends for the weekend, and so forth, to try to get strength and maybe by me not being there she may start to come around.

I am the only guy (that I know of) she has been with ever, and she had our daughter at 18, and says that might be part of the problem...over the past few weeks she had been drinking and partying and not spending any time at home, while I dealt with my daughter who was crying and upset mommy was not around...now she is starting to play super mom.

If I give her space, do you think there is a chance she will stay and try to work it out, maybe for our daughter, since she staying till Christmas for her?

She ahs said many times she feels nothing for me, except taht I am the father of her daughter, and that even if I went out and slept with the world she would not care one bit.

Laura does not say things she doesn't mean, and is frank about things.

What are you thoughts on the above?

Chris


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## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

She seems to be so upset with you. Why is this? You need to take a step back and look at the real reason why this woman wants out of the marriage. You need to put everything out on the table and start cleaning up the mess. 

Your words..

told her I would do all I can to show her we can work it out between now and then, and she said that I have not yet, so why would I now?

Telling her is one thing, but doing something about it is what she wanted you to do. She is letting you know you didn't care enough to fix the problem in the past, so why bother fixing the problem now. It is only when the woman has one foot out the door that the man wants to try to fix things. 

Tell her you understand that you didn't do anything to try to fix things in the past, and you could kick your own azz for not seeing this sooner. Please let's try to save our marriage. Then tell her you love her more than words can say.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well, 

The details of everything that has happend is in the hopeless or not thread....cheated on her a year and a half ago, she said she would move on after some therapy, but didn't. She said once I did that, she could never be with me. 

She tells me I make her skin crawl, that the smell of me is repulsive, good Lord!

She says people who know me real well know I am an ass, and her friends are now saying that to her.

The cards are against me,


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Be strong and independent of her. Give her the space she desires and show her you are alright with it. I fully agree with Hurting08. Don’t dote on her, it will only push her further away. Read “Love Must be Tough” by Dobson for some insight on how to draw someone back by being caring but strong in showing you’ll be fine if she leaves. You’re in panic mode now, settle down, a lot can happen in the next couple of months. Be steady, consistent and caring. Show her you love her and want things to work out in your actions, not words. Good luc.


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

i think amp is right. as hard as it may be, she needs your actions & not words right now. this is do or die time so bite the bullet & keep your lips sealed unless she wants to talk. just try being you & the man she fell in love with (i know, easier said than done). you may become more appealing to her if you do take a step back & quit trying so hard (not saying you were wrong for trying so hard, but it's just not working). maybe all of the talking & counseling & date nights are a bit too scheduled & a reminder of what happened. let things happen more naturally for now & see what happens. show her in whatever way you can think how devoted you are to her. this might be the biggest test yet! good luck & keep posting. i'm sure everyone on here can help out from day to day!


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Thinking of instead of sleeping in the bed tonight, as we are supposed to be swapping back and forth, I will just move unto the couch period.

Then if things continue the same, setting up a seperate bedroom.

Does this sound like the thing to do?

She loves her bed, and said when she leaves it goes with her.

Chris


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

it will definitely give her the space she needs. it may surprise her that you are willing to give it up. maybe you shouldn't make a point of telling her that is what you are doing but just do it & see how she reacts. it's a step back (in my opinion). i think it's good because it's her that has to want you back. how can she want you back unless you are away? this may be one subtle way to do it.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

Just got off the phone with my Buddy who went through this, and since his wife is best friends with Laura, it is good inside info.

He said to do this-

1- act happy all the time, dont let her get you down
2- start going out by myself with my friends, create my own space
3- try not to talk to her about anything serious, and just joke and have a good time when I do see her.

And she hasn't told her best friend she asked for a divorce yet, that he knows of.

Does this make sense to you all?

Chris


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## Hurting08 (Oct 9, 2008)

It makes perfect sense. Get your confidence back and show it through your actions. She may start to see you as the guy she doesn't want to give up. But if she still leaves, you've already put yourself in a better mental position to handle it.


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

i totally agree with hurting! like i said in my earlier post, she has to want you back & right now you are just a reminder of what happened. if you give her a reason to look at you in a different light, she may see what she will be giving up. good luck!


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

:iagree:

She's most likely already thought long and hard about what a divorce will do to the kids and to you both financially so when you bring those things up it's probably just going to make things worse as far as her feelings towards you.

Seeing the good dad, happy guy, however has a shot at making her think twice about her decision.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Honestly folks, what type of shot do I have from what you know?

Chris


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

We all wish we could have that magic crystal to see the future, unfortunately we do not. There is no telling what your odds are but continuing to try and work at the marriage will certainly increase them. She has given you a time line of sorts so I suggest you follow the advice given here and by your friend and give her space and show her you are strong and doing fine. Do your best and see how it all washes out in the end. Don’t give up during this stretch. Saying she wants a divorce and following through on it are two different things. Hang tough.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Amplexor said:


> We all wish we could have that magic crystal to see the future, unfortunately we do not....Saying she wants a divorce and following through on it are two different things. Hang tough.


sayig it and doing it...that's what you're up against...every day that she doesn't file is a day on your side...use the time...read the book "getting back together" by youngs and goetz and "winning back your wife before it's too late" by gary smalley.
especially the smalley book. it'll help you build a strategy...the young/goetz book makes you feel good about what you're going thru...good luck. you'll leran this forum is a solid friend in times of trouble.

ps- i've been hanging on for almost 4 months...we see each other regularly and she finally looks like my wife to me again...


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Your being endlessly available is not working for her. This only works with reasonable people. With tricky people you have to get tricky. You see even if you did get your way with this method, it would always be on her terms. You were on short rations as far as sex went even before your indiscretion - think what you will be getting now.

I would start giving her a bit of rope, remove the surety of your compliance. She doesn't even know what she wants anyway. Also the fact that she is saying the thought of you touching her is repulsive, is indicative of the fact that you are feeding her a dish that she has no appetite for.

The only hope is for her to develop a hunger for you. How do people get hungry? By being starved. So like *voivod*, you need to be nice if she seeks you out, but otherwise, feign a certain amount of indifference. Also get out of the house and meet people. Let her feel your lack. Don't always babysit when she wants.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

mt-
message read loud and clear...

what mark twain offers:

>>>>nice if she seeks you out, but otherwise, feign a certain amount of indifference<<<<

she'll interpret as "space"...i swear it's true...as uncomfortable as it may be FOR YOU...take comfort in knowing that the strategy does play to both of you advantages... you'll both get what you want...and that's what they call a "win-win"...

good luck...you've found the right place...now pay it forward..


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

canders said:


> Honestly folks, what type of shot do I have from what you know?
> 
> Chris


after a year about 40% maybe 50%, but I think that is better than giving up 0%.

draconis


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

Didn't call her all day, except to give her the address of Elizabeth's new ballet school. As she had asked.

I left a message, she never called back.

Got off work, took Liz to ballet, and she called wanting the addy, so I gave it to her.

She showed up, I was real nice, she was a total, well a major B, stayed for 10 minutes, then left saying she had to go home and do laundry. We chatted a bit, she said I had no chance of things ever working out, and I said you said you would reconsider, and she said that is why I will not.

Ok says I, I stay with Liz at ballet, take her home, to be told by my son that Laura was down at the pool and did not want me to annoy her.

I went down, and told her she can do whatever she wants, but she needs to start treating me like a person, and left.

She came up to the house about an hour later ( reeking of booze, she was down on the deck drinking) and then tried to be super mom with Liz, though she was very short with her and not exactly nice.

I went to sleep on the couch.

Woke up, got Liz ready for school and Laura called me into the bedroom and asked me if I had asked the real estate agent ( we were looking to sell the house) about a "quick sale". Not sure how that works, but told her I am not selling my house. She said if we sold the house we could move out, I asked seperately, and she said yes. 

She said she was going to start looking into seeing a lawyer, as January is not that far away. And said again if I had listened to the advice her drinking buddies gave me, things would be fine.

I got mad, oops, and said fine go ahead, I will too.

Then she asked if we were still going to have the party saturday night ( for our friends) and I said no way. Why would I want to do that.

She called me on the way up the road and I told her I was done, I had documentation on all of her partying and the lack of time she spent with our daughter, and when should would come home drunk and or hungover, and that I was going to seek full custody, as she was not the mother she was, nor was she even trying. I told her as my daughter I had our conversation this morning, that Liz said she wanted to stay with Brandon and I, and not see her mom, but live at her house in her room.

She got all spun up, and I told her frankly, it is not good to jerk kids from house to the next in joint custody and that Laura's job as a nurse had her working odd hours, and she does not have the support system that I do (her mother is an hour away, and she has no other family) and it would be best for Liz to live with me.

She got real upset, said that if I had listened to her when this all started and gave her space, we would have worked out, but that I never listened to the counsellors ( I did, really, though she kept cancelling appts and not doing what she was asked to do) and I that I am manipulative and controlling, and I was the one who drove her to act like she is. It is all my fault iin her opinion, and she keeps saying other people see the same thing...must be her drinking buddies again. I told her frankly I have acted the way I have is because she is not who she was, and I don't even like her anymore, and don't want to be with her. The old Laura yes, but this one, no way.

She used to look with scorn on people who had kids but spent their free time drinking and not at hme building a family, I reminded her of that, and told her she had become just that. She said she hates me, and I am the one who has driven her to this.

She said she wants to sit down tonight and like adults write down our own seperation terms, and plan for the party....

I told her fine, party is on, and we will chat about everything tonight.

She asked if she was going to have to move out earlier than January, and I said no, you can stay for one final Christmas together.

I want it to work, but not with the person she is, I want the old Laura back, and she says I keep that from occuring.

She keeps saying over and again that I am the one who is forcing her to leave, by not giving her space and pushing thnigs.

So, I will not call or talk to her anymore about anything, and act indifferent.

Chris


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Chris

Your frustration is coming through loud and clear, but in order for “tough love” to work it needs to be consistent and non confrontational. You are hardening your heart towards her and there are certainly reasons for that. She is exhibiting a lot of bad behavior but don’t lose track of your part in all of this. The blame game will not help the situation. If she truly believes she can come back to you as the woman she used to be by you giving her space and time, do so. I don’t personally like the word indifferent when practicing tough love. I prefer the attitude to be one of confidence and self assured. Indifferent implies a lack of caring. You need to show her you do care or she won’t attempt to come back. Keep your cool tonight.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Why would you want her around your kids if she is that drunk and n party mode all the time?

draconis


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Because at one time, not more than 3 months ago, she was the worlds best mom, honest to God.

I want her to be that again, I want her back how she was, I do not want a divorce.

She told me she said she was going to work on the marriage, that she tried, but she never told me, she said she did, but she never sat down and said she was going to.

I might be dumb, and looking back as hard as I can, I do not see when she actually looked, smelled or said she was. 

Maybe I am dumb.

Chris


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

wow! you are really going through some turmoil to say the least. try to back off as much as possible (she seems to be making that easier to do lately). you should tell her you are still open to working on the marriage but that the ball is in her court. you have done what you can do. she knows how you feel. 

the fact that she is not herself anymore tells me that she is still hurting from the ea and won't properly address those feelings. she is masking her feelings with the partying, drinking & acting like a different person. it is changing who she is & she needs to address this. you can't make her do it so just step back like she asked. i would make sure she knows that you do still care for her & her well-being & that you are there for her when she is ready to heal. it seems like she just needs to let herself break down. i am not one to tell someone you don't care if you really do. you never know what tomorrow brings so be an open book - no games. just be firm.

we're all wishing you the best!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

canders-

Your writing style is deteriorating, I can hardly follow some of what you are saying. You are obviously in a terrible state. You need to develop an inner peace. The worse thing I can make out is that you are wavering in your firmness. Firm is good. You said no party which made sense - imagine trying to keep up appearances - for what? Now you are saying the party is back on. Why not tell her it is back off again? That will show her two can play - it's the only real power you've got right now.

As I said in my last post, if you don't gain control now, you will never gain any say in things, everything will be on her terms if you get back together. There will be only at best crap sex very seldom, not to mention her mood swings. This woman wants and needs someone to ground her, before she floats away on a tide of booze and self pity.


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

:iagree: 

coming from the side of your wife on the whole ea thing, she does need some grounding. otherwise, you just give her the green light to wallow in self-pity. the situation is what it is! you have to be firm. if you keep being so submissive, it just feeds her continuance of her current state of insecurity! 

mt is right! firm, firm, firm!!! take control of your own state of mind so she knows exactly where you stand! you have to find your peace or you too will fall apart! trust me! i have my own issues with inner peace & mt has given some great advice to me on my own thread which has truly helped!

take a deep breath & stand your ground!


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Trying to stand firm....big mess just happened.

She is off work today, and I wanted to come home for lunch, but wasn't going to if she was there, so my mom drove by, she is only 2 minutes away, and said she wasn't home (didn't want to appear to be trying to get her to talk or anything), so I went home, to find she had just pulled in with some friends of mine. I went on in and ate lunch and chatted with my buddies, whom I have known for ten years and were hunting a few minutes away and stopped for lunch as well.

I chatted with them, then my mom leaves me a message she had just passed her on the way there, gee helps me now I am there!

She is rude, nasty and foul to me in front of my buddies to the point even one of them speaks up.

I pull her aside, tell her that I do not want to talk about us anymore, and that whenever she leaves, that while I do not want that, I will help her do so.

At that point she leaves the house and goes outside...I finsihed lunch and left.

I did forward her the message my mom left telling me she had just passed her to prove I was not trying to corner her or talk or whatever, but to be honest, the way she treats me is just plain wrong now.

Perhaps I have pushed her over the edge, or maybe she is just over the edge on her own. I know this, I do not want to chat with her about anything for a while, as she cannot be nice to me, and if she tried to talk I will tell her I do not want to right then, maybe later.

Seems no matter what I do, I fail in it.

Perhaps I will not do anything even remotely associated with her, except parenting.

Chris


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

So is the party on or off?


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Didn't even talk about it. I am going to say nothing more about it and she just called me to tell me she is staying somewhere else tonight as she cannot stand to even be in the same house as me, but to have my daughter ready at 7:30 in the morning so she can take her to school like she promised.

Then said she would be home friday night at 6:00 to talk over finances like we were supposed to on monday night.

Chris


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

As I said before, I think she is on the verge of some sort of a breakdown. This means you will have to be super-cool count to 10 and not react. Never answer a difficult question without going away and thinking about it. She is having tantrums, and is behaving like a little kid. What little you did a few months ago gives her no excuse to behave like this. In any case, I don't believe you would have indulged in an EA if she had not been so boooooring in bed. In a lot of ways, she has only herself to blame for her present pain. In fact the pain is all hers. She creates it afresh every day. You have turned yourself inside out, and it is not good enough.


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

i'm sorry for what you are going through. i'm sure her going over the edge has a lot to do with what you did but we are all responsible for our own actions. when my H had his ea, it wasn't or isn't easy for me but i have decided to move on. i can't say that i don't have bad days but on my end, i think you have done everything you can possible do to prove to her where your heart is now. i would have loved if my H had done some of the things you have done to prove yourself. she can't continue to treat you this way. she has to decide what she wants but it seems as if she is just self-destructing.

good job & telling her you would help her leave! stand firm. you may have done wrong but no one deserves to be treated the way she is treating you. if she can't forgive what you did, she needs to figure that out & move on so you don't destroy eachother. your children deserve to have happy parents! good luck!


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

you must love her canders...you must really love her...because i am hopelessly in love with my wife and that behavior would be too much for me...can i say this: you're stronger than i am, which gives me hope...for me, there IS more strength to gather, but i don't know how you handle this. no human deserves the treatment you describe.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Until the blinkers come off, and we see things as they really are, we can't act in the best way. Unfortunately, no mortal that I know of has the ability to see things as they really are, all we can do is move along the spectrum from darkness towards a little more light.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> Until the blinkers come off, and we see things as they really are, we can't act in the best way. Unfortunately, no mortal that I know of has the ability to see things as they really are, all we can do is move along the spectrum from darkness towards a little more light.


well said mark twain


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Haven't called her, haven't seen her. Feel much stronger. My buddies are coming over tonight to help me finish moving into the other bedroom.

Cancelled the party.

She didn't show up to take Elizabeth to school like she promised, so I took her.

She started calling me, I ignored her calls. She starting texting me, I replied I had a lot to do tonight, and yes we would still go over finances, but I wanted to get that done as I had work to do and then I am going out with my buddies.

She told me since we were not having a party, she is going to one instead. Real parent there! She has not really seen her daughter in weeks, and instead of spending the weekend with her, she is going to a party, with the excuse of, well, I will see her some saturday and some sunday.

I do not like her, or who she is anymore, and moving on and doing the things I like. Maybe she will wake up, but I don't know at this point if I would take her back as she is, in fact I would not.

She would have to get herself "fixed" first, then we could chat about the possibility.

Chris


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

canders said:


> I do not like her, or who she is anymore, and moving on and doing the things I like. Maybe she will wake up, but I don't know at this point if I would take her back as she is, in fact I would not.
> 
> She would have to get herself "fixed" first, then we could chat about the possibility.
> 
> Chris


At last! you are finally getting it. Try and see her for what she is with as much detachment as possible. Believe me this will drive her nuts. You may have to tone it down out of love for her.

But you may not want her back, so you may come to see your EA as a godsend in years to come. On the other hand, it may be her wake-up call and yours. I think after an affair, it is a terrible thing if a marriage goes back to how it was. It should either improve beyond recognition, or end graciously.

If you stay together, and you don't become a total doormat, she will have to take on-board the fact that she was less giving to you than she could have been. If you stay together, and you _do_ become her emotional doormat and slave, she will have everything her way, give you sex once a month if you're lucky, and cheat on you regularly. I would not be surprised if she has not already been doing that, but letting you take the "hit" for what was only an EA, not the real thing.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

It is so hard not to call her, and it is going to be harder going over finances tonight with her, and not talk about things. If she starts I think I will just say- do what you have to to be happy, I will support whatever that is. And then drop it.

Who knows, a long time between now and January, and as long as she stays in the house, I have a shot I think, as long as I stay distant but supportive.

They say when you stop chasing something, it stops and looks around and gets a chance to actually see the situation, where as before they are just running from you.

I hope that is true.

Chris


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## Honey (Sep 2, 2008)

canders said:


> Haven't called her, haven't seen her. Feel much stronger. My buddies are coming over tonight to help me finish moving into the other bedroom.
> 
> Cancelled the party.
> 
> ...


 Well, when she finally wants to be a mom to her girl, her girl might not have time for her.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Had the TALK with my daughter yesterday, she is heartbroken, and then she told my wife she wants to stay with me and her brother.

We are splitting finances up, and starting to make adjustments in other avenues, talked about who takes what and so forth.

She told me, she hasn't loved me for years, and that she lacked the strength to leave. She said if it had not been for our daughter being born, she would not have stayed years ago.

Said she didn't even truly love me when we got married 3 years ago, but thought it was what she was supposed to do.

She spent the day just lying in her bed, wrapped up in a blanket, not watching TV or doing much of anything. In fact Satruday night she came home instead of staying at the party, found her there when Elizabeth and I came home, we had stayed at my mom's together.

Looks really down and upset. I told her I was worried about her, things did not have to be this way, and if she finds out that this is not what she wants, no matter where we are in the process, to let me know, and she said she would.

Beyond that I am starting to make adjustments to the house to set it up for when she leaves.

I really want her to stay, because I do love her, but I would only do that if she agrees to real counselling.

Truly Sad.

Chris


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi Chris,

She sounds as if she is at a point where individual counseling might be of great help to her. If you see her not getting out of bed, you might gently suggest it, that you are worried about her and it might help her sort through her feelings. If you come from the angle that you want her to work through what she's feeling (not with the pretense of staying together or working on the marriage at this point but for her) she might respond.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

I told her I hope she finds happiness, and that if she ever needed anything to let me know. She said she is looking into going to a counsellor on her own, I told her that is a good idea.

I told her I, in a wierd way, kinda respect her, that she is willing to take the risk she is to find happiness.

By the way, while I was typing this, she called, to tell me she ran into one of our mutual married friends who asked us to go to dinner. She didn't tell them what was going on, but she told me that if I wanted to get with them I could give them a call, as she doesn't think doing a couples thing would be good.

Told her that is her call, but I will probably be too busy to get with them, as I have a lot to get done in two months.

Chris


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Just found out in an indirect way from her best friends husband that she is seeing someone else.

That they see how she has been neglecting her daughter, and that it is best that I just let her go, get it over with asap and move on.

Heck of a day, at least I know now it was not me and what I was doing. I tried to save the marriage, while she played off stage.

Contacting an attorney and saving what I can of my family.

Chris

Wish me luck


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

canders-

Wait just a moment. Now she is even and outed, you could stand some chance of turning it around if there is forgiveness on both sides. First you need to find out how long it was going on.

She may not be all that happy with the other guy. If she were she would not be drinking, and basically falling apart. I would interpret it as a cry for help - maybe. It's hard to tell without more info.

Your mistake is to think everything is black and white.

Have you asked her about the other guy yet? If you do, be gentle, you may be surprised at her reaction.


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## Hurting08 (Oct 9, 2008)

It's not necessarily over, it just got much harder.

Get a lawyer lined up and find out your options. In your mind, prepare yourself to be single again and live your life. Never know, she just might see you as someone she still wants to be with.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Well,

Her friends are making this worse than it needs to be. First they tell me in a round a bout way that she is seeing someone, then I find out from one of her coworkers that she is not, but rather that she wants to be with me, but cannot be, as I will not trust her.

She is upset, according to them, that I cannot trust her, and yes I did check the cell phone records, I think I have had cause.

Good Lord!

Either she is telling me the truth about not ever loving me, and she is lying to save face at her job, or she really does want to be with me, but can't see how to, as she feels I do not trust her and she does not trust me.

More confused than ever.

Chris


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## Hurting08 (Oct 9, 2008)

I am by no means an expert (I've got my own issue at home that I can't figure out), but maybe it is time for both of you to agree to sit back and relax a bit - call a truce. Agree to live together with the kids in peace, and not talk about your situation for a week or so. If the trust is not there for either of you, then you both will need to earn that back. If both of you are constantly trying to one-up each other, then all you are doing is getting ready for battle and not resoving any of the issues. Eventually her nerves (and yours) will calm down and you can start to open up the conversations again, but in baby steps.

The good news is she's still there and hasn't completely given up yet. The fact that she is so emotional about the situation tells me that there may still be feelings there.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Just called her at work to see how her day was going, and also to let her know what was going on with our daughter this week.

She was nice, I was nice, and we did not speak of splitting anything for the first time in days.

I want to do something, anything to show her that she will be able to trust me, and I her, but I think talking about anything will be hurtful at this point.

I think I need to relax, chill out, and do nothing, I mean nothing. She asked me to help split up things, but she hasn't split up anything yet, I guess I will go at her pace.

This is hard for me, as I am a go getter, and plan out tasks and plow forward with them. I hear the truth in what her co workers said, I hear the truth in her voice, but I also see she is resigned that this will not work, or at least she sees it now.

She told me for the first time perhaps we both share the responsibility of this going bad. That was last night.

As hard as it is, as it is against my nature, I guess I have to back off even more, and just everytime we chat, I will not bring anything up, and if she does and asks if we are splitting XYZ, I guess my best answer would be "if that is what you want I will"

I even told her today I love her, she didn't get all worked up, but simply said I know.

Perhaps, just perhaps there is some hope, if I can manage myself, and not push, but let it go at her speed.

I told her I felt sorry for her, not getting to see her daughter as much as she likes, and that I would help out with anything she needed.

Chris


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## Hurting08 (Oct 9, 2008)

At this time she may not want it to work because it isn't now, and she only sees it getting worse. I have to agree, I wouldn't want it to work the way it is now either. Don't push it, but again suggest that you both just back down and relax for a while, regardless of the future outcome. I have a feeling that she will be more than willing to relieve some of the stress. I have a feeling that her stress and emotions are causing her irrational behavior lately.

From your standpoint, and I'm sure you are already doing most of this, be sure you are being the best husband/father you can. Show her in your action, not words. Also be confident and show her that you can be the person that she wants to be with.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Canders-

I have noticed that you have a strange way of communicating. You write really well, everything makes sense, and yet (unless you are the king of PMs) you do not seem to engage with anybody in your threads. 

If this is how you and your wife's conversations go, I would imagine you are both living in a bubble of your own - presuming to understand each other, but actually missing each other's meanings most of the time.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

MT,

Maybe I am too busy thinking of what I want to say to hear what others are saying....she has said that once or twice, that I never hear what she is saying.

Ouch.

Will try less thinking and more listening.

Chris
-in need of a hearing ear dog


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

canders-

I'm going to be tough on you - coz you're worth it. 

You want an ear to cry in? Learn to be a good listener first.


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

MT,

Listened to what she said this morning, and it went like this-

She is starting to move money to put away for her to leave, moving money out of our shared account. Said there is no way she will ever want to be with me again, said there are too many issues- trust, communication and the fact she has no feelings towards me at all. I told her those can come back, if you want them to. She said she does not want them to.

Said that she has no feelings towards me whatsoever, and that she just wants me to accept there is no us. She said no matter how much I change, that the damage has been done, and she is 99.9% sure nothing will change during the seperation period of one year here in MD.

She hopes that I do not get vengeful and try to destroy her, as I had in relationships years ago when I realize it is over.

I never destroyed anyone, yes I talked bad about the relationship, but never did anything to hurt anyone.

Said that she hopes for our daughters sake that I do not get vengeful.

Said that even though every other girl I ever dated came back after a while, said she will not, and not to bet on that. I asked her not to use that against me, and if she wants to come back, that she doesn't hold out for that reason.

She has been really mean recently, perhaps because I tell her I do not believe it is over for good, that I believe in us and her.

She said- what do I have to do to show you it is over? Sleep with someone else?

I am her first and only relationship ever, she has nothing to base this situation on.

I guess I have to accept what she is saying and just let her go, even though it makes me sick on the stomach, for I know what I have lost, and would do anything to get it back, but I feel perhaps I need to stop trying to work on us, believe her, and start working on me.

She always has been strong, I have always been the weak one, I guess I have to accept it, and move on.

I am scared silly of being alone, I have never spent more than 5-6 months of my life without someone, and the thought of a year plus terrifies me. I know if I have any hope of it ever working out, I cannot just go on and see other people, but I am starting to feel like I want to now. If it is not going to work with her, then perhaps I need to get back in the saddle and drive on.

Is it wrong to feel that way?

I will always regret this relationship and the way it went, and wish I had done differently, but if I cannot change the outcome, should I just let it go, and move on?

Thanks for all the advice folks,

Chris


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Let go and look at ways of making yourself better. The fact that being alone scaes you set off red flags. Dependent, clingy? This for self exam I guess.

draconis


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

canders-

Are you a real good looker?


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## canders (Jul 30, 2008)

Ummm... ok I wondering why you ask...


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Do I have to spell it out? 
I just wondered if you were the type of guy who had women at his feet...


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