# Do you think my marriage is worth saving?



## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Here are the "facts" I have come up with.

- He doesn't love me since he had cheated on me both emotionally and physically for 1.5 years.

- He/We want to try to work things out only because we have two young children together. If no children, we wouldn't talk to each other. He would have left long time ago as he said. But now he is willing to compromise and reconcile because he wants to have the kids with me. It's a package deal to him. It's not me that he wants, but the kids.

- He cheated emotionally initially. I forgave him since it was only emotional to me back then. But then it went to physical. He had been lying to me for 1.5 years because he said he hadn't talked to her every time I asked about it. Now he had been forced to come clean and he apologized and seemed remorseful. But he didn't do any within 1.5 years. Should I give him another chance? Does he deserve a "third" chance?

- He didn't treat me well in the past during our 10 years relationship. So he didn't care me much even before he started cheating. Now he realized he has been an asshole to me the whole time and never gave me a fair chance. He promised he is fully committed to change, to work on himself. He will never cheat in this life time anymore. But he did tell me back then if he ever slept with that woman, he wouldn't dare to come home. He did come home every night even after the deed. Should I believe him this time?

- This third party or the other woman that he had the affair with is an ex-girlfriend from 20 years ago. They never had the closure although he left her after a year of dating at that time. They never had sex back then since she was a Christian. He got married with someone else and divorced a few years later. Then we met and we got married (with different (wrong?) reasons: I wanted to start a family since I was in my mid-30's and he unwillingly did it because I took good care of him but he didn't really love me that much when we got married. We kind of both knew we were not compatible the whole time. We had kids a few years later after 8 cycles of IVFs because of his genetic problem). This other woman (also married and miserable in her own marriage) and he re-connected 1.5 years ago when our second child was born. He "came clean" after he was gone to see her for 6 hours three weeks after our second child was born. I told him to stop talking to her. He said he stopped but in fact just kept lying each time. Starting in last July, he went back to work in office so they started seeing each other. According to him, they met 5 times and he slept with her (they did it in her car each time) for at least 4 times. Things should be easier to fix if he really stopped back then and tried to focus on us but he didn't. I suggested couple therapy back then but he didn't bother to do anything. I regret so much everyday that I didn't check his phone the last entire year..I should also have kicked him when it was just emotional but I just gave birth at that time so I needed all the help.

- I know this husband of mine that if he is fully committed, he would get the job done nicely. He said he is fully committed to this relationship and will try to be a good husband and father this time. I feel bad for myself if he really could change and I just give away the good version of this man that I re-shaped to another woman. Should I consider to take him back and hope for the best? Maybe he really will change this time? But he is 45 already with one failed marriage before me. He didn't cheat in that marriage. Accordingly to him, he never cheated before. But even fully committed is probably not enough for me anymore. I need someone who truly loves and values me which he never did in the past. I was never a wife he expected although he said I had many good wife materials. But we were not compatible and didn't know how to compromise.

- He said he cheated because he felt miserable with me especially my parents moved in to help us with the kids since our first child was born 4 years ago. He felt he was left alone in an island because the three of us (me and my parents) had many different opinions and views from him about many things while living together. I understand the part that he said he didn't get what he wanted such as support and empathy from me especially after my parents moved in. I got that he didn't get it from me so he ended up getting that from someone else. But in fact, we all had sucked up each other the past few years including my parents. We were all miserable. Now he got kicked out after I discovered the cheating. He said he finally realized that he shouldn't have treated my parents like that in the past. He took them and also me for granted. My parents have been trying their best to help out as much as they could. They are in their 70's already. Other parents would have left if they were treated that bad. They only stayed because of their grandkids. They never got paid and do much longer hours than nannies.

- I had felt miserable since he told me he fell in love with the other woman 1.5 years ago. I thought he did stop but just didn't care about me the whole time. I told him to move out several times last year because I told him that I couldn't live like this anymore even before the discovery. I told him that my 2022 couldn't be again like last year before. But in my heart, I still wanted it to work. I even booked our first couple therapy session a week before I found out the discovery, hoping that was my last resort.

- I'm very old fashioned so sexual/physical cheating has always been a deal breaker to me. If he didn't sleep with her, I would have taken him back as the first time. I could probably accept it if it was a fling or one night stand or he physical abused me. He clearly knew this part of me since I told him that before. I still don't know how to get over it. I don't know if I ever will. I have been seeing therapist on my own besides our couple therapist once a week. I hope I could get over it and forgive him. I know if I can't, then I won't be happy in my future relationships whether with him or someone else.

- As both my own therapist and our couple therapist pointed out that I still love this man. If not, I wouldn't feel that angry when I talked about it/him. I understand it's a conflicting feeling that I also hate him for hurting me so bad. He ruined our marriage and damaged my life. My life was simple before. He made me a worse person over the past 10 years. But I also don't want our kids to grow up in a broken family. If he could really change, he could be a good husband and a good father. But can I trust him that he could finally leave his mistress behind this time? He said he didn't think about her until he started to feel miserable and she reached out to him a few years ago. He said he had always pushed her away when things were ok between me and him back then. They just kept in touch by saying hello with each other every once a while. I really don't know if she was the cause of our toxic marriage. He said it was our bad communication. During our marriage, he rarely opened up his feelings to me since he didn't know how because he felt I was very difficult to talk to. I tried to talk to him but he always pushed me away.

- It has been almost six weeks since the discovery day. He hasn't done much to me the entire time except booking appointments for our couple therapy sessions. He said during our last session with the therapist that I don't seem to have desire to work with him. On the other hand, he has been spending a lot more times with the kids since he only gets to see them on weekends now. He even read many books to our 4-yo the first weekend he came back to visit. He didn't read these many books with her all these years. In the past, he always just hid in our room and played with his phone. We felt like we gave him too much me-time back then. So now he is a changed man? I honestly haven't done much with him these days either since I'm still not sure if I should invest more time or energy with him. I don't want to get hurt again. I do want to participate our family events which normally I plan since he is a homebody. I did give in a lot more than him in this relationship. I took care of him (maybe not fully emotionally). I did love this man with all my heart before even he didn't treat me well in the past. Maybe that's why it hurts so much. How could I ever trust him again? He is going to leave his brother's place where he has been staying. So he will have his own place next to our building as he even planned to move out before the discovery. I don't know if he will keep in touch with the other woman. But he said he already removed all his social media accounts including Facebook, Instagram and What's App where they usually connected to each other before. He even allowed me to check his phone and installed tracking app too. But do I want to depend my trust based on a device or an app? I don't want a life like that either.

I know the decision is mine in the end. But I would like to see if you guys could give me a bigger picture or something I can't see at the moment on my own. What would you do in my case? Especially those who had been in the same boat before.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Children are never a reason to stay in a failed marriage. Staying together can actually hurt the children more than staying together. Co-parenting can just as easily be done divorced as married. In fact, some parents have done better after being divorced than when they stayed married. So drop the children as a reason to stay or go.

Honestly, if he has been cheating for a long period, then I don't see the point. A one off moment of weakness, I can see letting it go (assuming it was only one time and not several different women he had moments of weakness over). But this isn't worth the stay. At best, give the MC a try, but if he goes off the rails again, dump him. There is never an excuse for someone going behind your back.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

He doesn't sound like a very good example for your children, but he's their dad. I just don't see this getting any better going forward for very long. 

Just remember that if you were to divorce, you'd be better off insisting he took 50/50 custody of the kids so that you could have a life and be able to work and not just live in poverty doing nothing for yourself while he had plenty of free time to just go and be a bachelor like he wants to do. 

So I suggest if you do leave him you be sure and share those kids 50/50 with him which is the norm in the US these days anyway but I have no idea where you're at. Also it was certainly be easier to leave him now while your parents are still alive and willing to help. They will probably be gone in a few years and then you will really be stuck.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

maquiscat said:


> Children are never a reason to stay in a failed marriage. Staying together can actually hurt the children more than staying together. Co-parenting can just as easily be done divorced as married. In fact, some parents have done better after being divorced than when they stayed married. So drop the children as a reason to stay or go.
> 
> Honestly, if he has been cheating for a long period, then I don't see the point. A one off moment of weakness, I can see letting it go (assuming it was only one time and not several different women he had moments of weakness over). But this isn't worth the stay. At best, give the MC a try, but if he goes off the rails again, dump him. There is never an excuse for someone going behind your back.


It had been the same woman this whole time...that's why it bothers me even more. It wasn't a fling. How can I ever know if he is totally over her? There was no closure before between them, according to him. They were not able to do it within the past 1.5 years, according to him. He said they had tried many times. I just feel like I meant nothing to him even I have been with him for a little over 10 years already. I'm really nothing compared to her...but he said he already cut all ties. I don't know if I could trust him again.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He doesn't sound like a very good example for your children, but he's their dad. I just don't see this getting any better going forward for very long.
> 
> Just remember that if you were to divorce, you'd be better off insisting he took 50/50 custody of the kids so that you could have a life and be able to work and not just live in poverty doing nothing for yourself while he had plenty of free time to just go and be a bachelor like he wants to do.
> 
> So I suggest if you do leave him you be sure and share those kids 50/50 with him which is the norm in the US these days anyway but I have no idea where you're at. Also it was certainly be easier to leave him now while your parents are still alive and willing to help. They will probably be gone in a few years and then you will really be stuck.


I live in US. I actually want to have sole custody of both kids although I don't think that's possible. He loves the kids very much obviously. That's why he is willing to work with me here.

I may still love him but I really hate the hurt he caused. I don't know if I could ever get over it. He said in the past many times that I was a jealous person. Now he is making my condition even worse..


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

No. It’s not worth saving. But you are. And so are your kids. Get out. Demand full custody based on his cheating with visitation, I think you can set parameters about his extracurricular activities around your children.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You will obviously take a huge risk staying with him after this (I did something similar and got badly burned for it). And if you’re smart you’ll never trust him the way you did before because you’ll never know if you’re getting the truth. Keep in mind that love doesn’t mean you can make a relationship work (if it did, I’d still be in mine).


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> You will obviously take a huge risk staying with him after this (I did something similar and got badly burned for it). And if you’re smart you’ll never trust him the way you did before because you’ll never know if you’re getting the truth. Keep in mind that love doesn’t mean you can make a relationship work (if it did, I’d still be in mine).


I know at this moment, I don't know how to trust him. I don't know if I ever know how. I just want to forgive him so at least I could move on with my life. You are right that love can't conquer all especially it has been me loving him most of the time during our time together. Like I told him before, I had been tangoing alone for so long...I got really tired. Now he is trying to ask me to tango with him...is it really too late?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

hi2super said:


> It had been the same woman this whole time...that's why it bothers me even more. It wasn't a fling. How can I ever know if he is totally over her? There was no closure before between them, according to him. They were not able to do it within the past 1.5 years, according to him. He said they had tried many times. I just feel like I meant nothing to him even I have been with him for a little over 10 years already. I'm really nothing compared to her...but he said he already cut all ties. I don't know if I could trust him again.


I wouldn't. He cheated, he went behind your back. This isn't a keeping a surprise a secret kind of thing, or non-disclosure of something he did before he met you. You two were in a relationship that, I am assuming, you both had agreed to exclusivity on. He broke that agreement multiple times. Like I said, a one shot _might _be forgivable, certain conditions apply. But this is beyond that.

Something to keep in mind. Just because you can't trust him relationship wise, doesn't automatically mean he's untrustworthy in other areas like the children. Make sure you evaluate that on its own merits.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

hi2super said:


> I live in US. I actually want to have sole custody of both kids although I don't think that's possible. He loves the kids very much obviously. That's why he is willing to work with me here.
> 
> I may still love him but I really hate the hurt he caused. I don't know if I could ever get over it. He said in the past many times that I was a jealous person. Now he is making my condition even worse..


Don't use the kids as revenge or manipulation. They are completely separate in this, and unless he has shown himself to be abusive or neglectful towards them, they deserve the time with him. Feel free to take him to the cleaners over the cheating, but leave the kids off the bargaining table for that aspect.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

maquiscat said:


> I wouldn't. He cheated, he went behind your back. This isn't a keeping a surprise a secret kind of thing, or non-disclosure of something he did before he met you. You two were in a relationship that, I am assuming, you both had agreed to exclusivity on. He broke that agreement multiple times. Like I said, a one shot _might _be forgivable, certain conditions apply. But this is beyond that.
> 
> Something to keep in mind. Just because you can't trust him relationship wise, doesn't automatically mean he's untrustworthy in other areas like the children. Make sure you evaluate that on its own merits.


I understand that. I have been struggling and debating with myself everyday too - how come he could just jump ship when he felt miserable? Marriage doesn't work like that. He said he had been feeling guilty the whole time. But how come he never stopped if there were really that much guilt inside him? He must love that woman very much..how could I get over the part that I may never ever replace her in his head even he said he didn't think about her until our relationship started to turn bad? I didn't know her existence before but now I do..


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> You will obviously take a huge risk staying with him after this (I did something similar and got badly burned for it). And if you’re smart you’ll never trust him the way you did before because you’ll never know if you’re getting the truth. Keep in mind that love doesn’t mean you can make a relationship work (if it did, I’d still be in mine).


How did you trust someone who hurt you so bad the first time?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> How did you trust someone who hurt you so bad the first time?


You definitely don’t ever trust 100% again — or you shouldn’t. My mistake was believing my exH when he said he would be a model husband (after I caught him cheating). He lied. I don’t believe in third chances so I was done.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> No. It’s not worth saving. But you are. And so are your kids. Get out. Demand full custody based on his cheating with visitation, I think you can set parameters about his extracurricular activities around your children.


Is it possible to have full custody because he cheated? I googled it before but not sure if that's how it works.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

The short version:

If you stay he will eventually leave. The match is lit so it’s only a matter of time until you get burned. Be smart and get out in front of it…drive this bus yourself instead of being a passenger.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

hi2super said:


> I understand that. I have been struggling and debating with myself everyday too - how come he could just jump ship when he felt miserable? Marriage doesn't work like that. He said he had been feeling guilty the whole time. But how come he never stopped if there were really that much guilt inside him? He must love that woman very much..how could I get over the part that I may never ever replace her in his head even he said he didn't think about her until our relationship started to turn bad? I didn't know her existence before but now I do..


Don't even bother with what he was thinking or feeling. Down that path lies madness. And in the end it isn't even about you, whether or not you are good enough or anything like that. This ends up all on him. The worse thing a person can do when cheated on is start in with the questions like, "wasn't I good enough?" and in that vein. Ultimately there is no good enough or anything like it. There is compatibility, specifically for the long term. For him to cheat, to violate that trust like that, means that you two were not compatible for the long run. That is no negative on you.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

hi2super said:


> Is it possible to have full custody because he cheated? I googled it before but not sure if that's how it works.


A lot depends upon the state you file in. But you have to be a resident of that state, which means living there for a set amount of time before you are considered a resident as well as other condition.

But make sure you are considering the children separately from your marriage. As I noted before a lack of trust with your marriage does not automatically mean a lack of trust with the children. When doing the divorce, go into the issue of the custody without the cheating being a factor as much as possible. The children are the key here, and taking them away from either parent without abuse or neglect as a factor can be more harmful for them in the long run. Ask the children what they want. Get a therapist if needed to help them work through this and be able to articulate what they want and why. But don't go into this with the idea of punishing him for the cheating with the loss of the children.


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## Skookaroo (Jul 12, 2021)

He is clearly not to be trusted and you two were never compatible to begin with. Cut your losses and stop giving a bad example to your kids of what a marriage looks like. He won’t be able to make the changes you need.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

hi2super said:


> Is it possible to have full custody because he cheated? I googled it before but not sure if that's how it works.


I honestly don’t know for sure, I have no first hand experience with divorce. I do recall friends who made the argument that they needed primary custody because their ex-spouse was not able to provide a morally sound environment for children. Ask your lawyer.


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## Angie?or… (Nov 15, 2021)

No. It’s not worth saving. I’m sorry. You deserve to be with someone who actually loves you. And it’s unhealthy for your kids to grow up with a mom who is devalued by her husband. My mother stayed with my immoral father “for the sake of the children” and we would all have been safer and happier if she hadn’t.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

6 weeks of "good behavior" against a married plagued by cheating with a guy you admit you would not even talk to but for the children is not something to be saved.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Angie?or… said:


> No. It’s not worth saving. I’m sorry. You deserve to be with someone who actually loves you. And it’s unhealthy for your kids to grow up with a mom who is devalued by her husband. My mother stayed with my immoral father “for the sake of the children” and we would all have been safer and happier if she hadn’t.


I did tell him that I won't allow him to come back to this family or kids without loving me first. I don't know if he will be able to do that. I won't allow my kids to live with two parents who don't love each other. But it's also hard to fall in love again with history like this. I may still love him a bit but he apparently doesn't love me at the moment. I told him during our MC session few days ago that we are pulled back to love each other because we have to work on our marriage for the sake of our kids we both love very much. But love doesn't work like that...it's just not natural.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> 6 weeks of "good behavior" against a married plagued by cheating with a guy you admit you would not even talk to but for the children is not something to be saved.


He may be changed for real this time. No one really knows. I won't accept him that soon for sure. I even joked once that by the time he could totally change and could finally learn to forget about the other woman, our kids would be in college by that time. They are 1.5 and 4 yo now.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

hi2super said:


> I did tell him that I won't allow him to come back to this family *or kids* without loving me first. I don't know if he will be able to do that. *I won't allow my kids to live with two parents who don't love each other. * But it's also hard to fall in love again with history like this. I may still love him a bit but he apparently doesn't love me at the moment. I told him during our MC session few days ago that we are pulled back to love each other because we have to work on our marriage for the sake of our kids we both love very much. But love doesn't work like that...it's just not natural.


I have to caution you against this again, and mostly because it is so important for the children. The love between you two, or lack thereof as the case may be, has no bearing on the love between parent and child. If your kids want no part of him then that's on them. But denying them time with him simply because there is no longer love between you and him is harm to the children. I am hoping that by live with two parents who don't love each other you mean in the same house. But this is between you and him, not them. Don't put them in the middle to be a battleground item.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

So he admitted he would leave if not for the kids? Is he an engaging, present father, or is he just worried about child support? Does a loving father disrespect his wife this way? 

Sent from my SM-J327VPP using Tapatalk


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

maquiscat said:


> I have to caution you against this again, and mostly because it is so important for the children. The love between you two, or lack thereof as the case may be, has no bearing on the love between parent and child. If your kids want no part of him then that's on them. But denying them time with him simply because there is no longer love between you and him is harm to the children. I am hoping that by live with two parents who don't love each other you mean in the same house. But this is between you and him, not them. Don't put them in the middle to be a battleground item.


I understand that. I will keep that in mind. Thank you!!


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

scatty said:


> So he admitted he would leave if not for the kids? Is he an engaging, present father, or is he just worried about child support? Does a loving father disrespect his wife this way?
> 
> Sent from my SM-J327VPP using Tapatalk


Yes, he admitted he would have left a few years ago if no kids. Money has never been our issue so he is not worried about child support. I'm sure he will support the kids financially without a doubt. He does love the kids very much although he had disrespected a lot in the past. And because of the way he treated me, I already asked him to leave several times last year even before the discovery. He couldn't do that because of the kids. Since the kids are still young, he wouldn't be able to handle them even if it's 50/50. He said the kids would stay with me so he would just come visit. That's why the new place he'll move in to is just next building. But now he realized it's not enough. He misses all those nights that our son slept next to him although he felt very annoying back then that our boy kicked his face all the time. He misses all the time he could have spent with our older kid, to just simply read a book with her. But I'm the mother and the wife. I am not sure if he misses me at all.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

hi2super said:


> Is it possible to have full custody because he cheated? I googled it before but not sure if that's how it works.


It's not.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

He has lied 100s of times about this, he has no concern for you or the marriage.

You need to move on. You should discuss in therapy why it's even an option in your mind to accept someone treating you this poorly.

You certainly didn't cause him to cheat, he decided (over and over) to do that. There are no excuses for that.

Gain some self respect and move on.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Why can't he cope with them on his own?


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Why can't he cope with them on his own?


um..cope with what on his own to be exact? He seemed confused what he needed to do until our MC told him that he needed to fix himself besides the marriage. I told him to see his own IC and probably a life coach too before our MC pointed it out to him. He didn't understand why he needed it when I told him that. Then during our second session with the MC, she asked us to talk about good and bad about each other. I spent more than 15 minutes to kind of bash him how he treated me all these years. In the end, he admitted he was an *sshole. He obviously knows many of his wrongdoing. I do believe he will be a better man from now on. To me, the question is more about if this man worth saving as a spouse for myself.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

re16 said:


> He has lied 100s of times about this, he has no concern for you or the marriage.
> 
> You need to move on. You should discuss in therapy why it's even an option in your mind to accept someone treating you this poorly.
> 
> ...


According to him, he said if he was content like he used to be in the beginning of our marriage, he wouldn't have cheated. He said he was miserable the past few years. But being miserable isn't an excuse to cheat. A lot of people are miserable in their marriage but not a lot of them cheat. He said he didn't think about the other woman until he became miserable. He became miserable because we didn't know how to compromise or communicate. He said that to our MC that is our fundamental problem. He said I talked to him a lot back then but the way I communicated was not effective. He, on the other hand, didn't even communicate much and just shut the door emotionally. But how would I know if next time, he is miserable, he won't cheat again? He said he won't ever do that again in this life. But how will I know? He hid it so well. I trusted him and didn't check his phone. All our credit card bills and phone bills looked clean. I am just too gullible...


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

hi2super said:


> According to him, he said if he was content like he used to be in the beginning of our marriage, he wouldn't have cheated. He said he was miserable the past few years. But being miserable isn't an excuse to cheat. A lot of people are miserable in their marriage but not a lot of them cheat. He said he didn't think about the other woman until he became miserable. He became miserable because we didn't know how to compromise or communicate. He said that to our MC that is our fundamental problem. He said I talked to him a lot back then but the way I communicated was not effective. He, on the other hand, didn't even communicate much and just shut the door emotionally. But how would I know if next time, he is miserable, he won't cheat again? He said he won't ever do that again in this life. But how will I know? He hid it so well. I trusted him and didn't check his phone. All our credit card bills and phone bills looked clean. I am just too gullible...


He is making excuses and blaming you for his choices. And he will definitely do it again. If you take him back it’s permission for him to cheat every time the grocery store is out of his favorite chips. Don’t fall for that. Ask him if he would accept that excuse from you? Seriously, ask him if he’d take you back if you cheated because you were “miserable”? I’m guessing he wouldn’t. He’s playing you and games are for children.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

hi2super said:


> Is it possible to have full custody because he cheated? I googled it before but not sure if that's how it works.


Cheating is nothing that's considered in a divorce or child custody. There's no way to know that the other spouse didn't also cheat but just not get caught so it's just not a factor. You don't need any kind of reason like that to get a divorce. It's just incompatibility. And he has a right as the children's father to share custody. Not all men want to, which is sad for their children.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You’ll never know for certain that he won’t cheat again. That’s part of the risk you take when you reconcile. I believed my husband when he promised he would change. Years later I caught him with the same woman that I had almost divorced him over before. So keep in mind what can happen. It doesn’t mean it will but there are no guarantees, obviously, when you take a cheater back. I think you’ll end up staying with him but I would advise that you never again trust him the way you once did. BTDT.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Cheating is nothing that's considered in a divorce or child custody. There's no way to know that the other spouse didn't also cheat but just not get caught so it's just not a factor. You don't need any kind of reason like that to get a divorce. It's just incompatibility. And he has a right as the children's father to share custody. Not all men want to, which is sad for their children.


That seems wrong, doesn’t it? You’re not just cheating on your spouse. You’re cheating on your family. It seems like such a substantial moral choice it ought to make a difference. If new sex is so important that you’re willing to toss over you children for it? Doesn’t that speak to your ability make any reasonable choice?


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That seems wrong, doesn’t it? You’re not just cheating on your spouse. You’re cheating on your family. It seems like such a substantial moral choice it ought to make a difference. If new sex is so important that you’re willing to toss over you children for it? Doesn’t that speak to your ability make any reasonable choice?


I know, right? How can I be sure that he will be a good role model for the kids when he is already morally corrupted?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> He is making excuses and blaming you for his choices. And he will definitely do it again. If you take him back it’s permission for him to cheat every time the grocery store is out of his favorite chips. Don’t fall for that. Ask him if he would accept that excuse from you? Seriously, ask him if he’d take you back if you cheated because you were “miserable”? I’m guessing he wouldn’t. He’s playing you and games are for children.


But he will say that he would right now if asked. That question is the one to ask before you reveal that you are aware of his cheating and that you will be taking his advice of hell no.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> You’ll never know for certain that he won’t cheat again. That’s part of the risk you take when you reconcile. I believed my husband when he promised he would change. Years later I caught him with the same woman that I had almost divorced him over before. So keep in mind what can happen. It doesn’t mean it will but there are no guarantees, obviously, when you take a cheater back. I think you’ll end up staying with him but I would advise that you never again trust him the way you once did. BTDT.


I don't know what to do at the moment. I'm obviously not in a rush to sign the divorce paper or get back to him. My clock is not ticking this time. As I told him, I'm not going to settle for less this time. I'm the one in the driver seat. I don't think I'm demanding. I basically just need a loyal man who loves me and respects me. If I end up with someone else, that person needs to care for my kids too.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> I don't know what to do at the moment. I'm obviously not in a rush to sign the divorce paper or get back to him. My clock is not ticking this time. As I told him, I'm not going to settle for less this time. I'm the one in the driver seat. I don't think I'm demanding. I basically just need a loyal man who loves me and respects me. If I end up with someone else, that person needs to care for my kids too.


Take your time. It’s certainly not too much to expect that your husband loves and respects you.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

maquiscat said:


> But he will say that he would right now if asked. That question is the one to ask before you reveal that you are aware of his cheating and that you will be taking his advice of hell no.


I did ask him once back then when the affair was emotional in the beginning. I asked if I cheated with someone else behind his back, how would you feel? He said he wouldn't like it either. So obviously, he knew my feelings. He knew how I would feel the entire time. We have been together for over 10 years. So of course he knows how I think. That's why I don't understand why he would risk everything he had to be with this mistress. He said he was trying to escape his miserable life and even ended up having some fantasy with that woman for a life he never had before. It just sounded like they belonged together since the beginning. It was all because of wrong timing the entire time - he left her after a year of dating 20 years ago. Then he found someone new and got married. Then he got divorced. But she was about to get married with someone else. Then we met and got married. Then both of them became miserable with their marriages and started chatting online. Sigh...does it ever end?


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> You’ll never know for certain that he won’t cheat again. That’s part of the risk you take when you reconcile. I believed my husband when he promised he would change. Years later I caught him with the same woman that I had almost divorced him over before. So keep in mind what can happen. It doesn’t mean it will but there are no guarantees, obviously, when you take a cheater back. I think you’ll end up staying with him but I would advise that you never again trust him the way you once did. BTDT.


I will definitely keep that in mind if I choose to stay with him. It's really risky, especially it has been just that one woman the whole time. Like he said, he didn't sleep around. He didn't even need to get tested since that woman didn't sleep around either.

I don't know if I can trust him or even sleep well at night. Like I told him during our past MC session, do I need to worry all the time whenever I hear a new message comes up on his phone? I don't want that kind of life...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> I did ask him once back then when the affair was emotional in the beginning. I asked if I cheated with someone else behind his back, how would you feel? He said he wouldn't like it either. So obviously, he knew my feelings. He knew how I would feel the entire time. We have been together for over 10 years. So of course he knows how I think. That's why I don't understand why he would risk everything he had to be with this mistress. He said he was trying to escape his miserable life and even ended up having some fantasy with that woman for a life he never had before. It just sounded like they belonged together since the beginning. It was all because of wrong timing the entire time - he left her after a year of dating 20 years ago. Then he found someone new and got married. Then he got divorced. But she was about to get married with someone else. Then we met and got married. Then both of them became miserable with their marriages and started chatting online. Sigh...does it ever end?


The two of them were at the prime age to wonder about the road not taken. Unfortunately they decided to act on it.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> The two of them were at the prime age to wonder about the road not taken. Unfortunately they decided to act on it.


I honestly hate that woman...my husband knows about it but told me that I should blame him instead since he was weak. I didn't know what to say to him at that time. I told him that I don't want my kids to be near that woman even if he chose her eventually. Knowing one cheater in their life is enough. He is the father so the kids got no choice to choose that. But that woman who destroyed my family, I can never forgive her!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> I will definitely keep that in mind if I choose to stay with him. It's really risky, especially it has been just that one woman the whole time. Like he said, he didn't sleep around. He didn't even need to get tested since that woman didn't sleep around either.
> 
> I don't know if I can trust him or even sleep well at night. Like I told him during our past MC session, do I need to worry all the time whenever I hear a new message comes up on his phone? I don't want that kind of life...


I had a tremendous amount of anxiety and didn’t sleep well. I needed more sleep than he did (he could manage very well on four and I needed eight) so there was always the thought of what he was doing — or where he was — during those extra hours that I was asleep. I had always been a deep sleeper but suddenly a leaf falling two blocks away would wake me up. Not to mention the hours he was at work which is where their contact was for the years that she reported to him. She definitely wanted my life and set about trying to get it. When we finally divorced, however, he picked someone else to marry — sadly for her😔.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> I had a tremendous amount of anxiety and didn’t sleep well. I needed more sleep than he did (he could manage very well on four and I needed eight) so there was always the thought of what he was doing — or where he was — during those extra hours that I was asleep. I had always been a deep sleeper but suddenly a leaf falling two blocks away would wake me up. Not to mention the hours he was at work which is where their contact was for the years that she reported to him. She definitely wanted my life and set about trying to get it. When we finally divorced, however, he picked someone else to marry — sadly for her😔.


That's a surprising ending...is your life better without him now? Do you guys have any kids together?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> That's a surprising ending...is your life better without him now? Do you guys have any kids together?


One adult child when we divorced. Yes, I thought he would finally choose her when the opportunity presented itself and no doubt she thought the same. I asked him if he told his new wife why we got divorced (you can guess the answer). My life is many times better without him but the damage is done — I’m unable to trust so no more serious relationships for me although I do casually date. My biggest regret is giving him a chance to burn me when I gave him a second chance. I was very hesitant to do that but I believed his lies and paid the price.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> One adult child when we divorced. Yes, I thought he would finally choose her when the opportunity presented itself and no doubt she thought the same. I asked him if he told his new wife why we got divorced (you can guess the answer). My life is many times better without him but the damage is done — I’m unable to trust so no more serious relationships for me although I do casually date. My biggest regret is giving him a chance to burn me when I gave him a second chance. I was very hesitant to do that but I believed his lies and paid the price.


My individual therapist mentioned something about karma before. I wonder if people like that who do awful things or hurt someone so bad would eventually get their karma. I probably still love my husband but I also hate him so much at the same time. I was so mad a few weeks ago that I told him both he and the mistress deserved to die...hit by a car or something. I was furious about what he/they did to me. Why would they deserve their own happiness?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> My individual therapist mentioned something about karma before. I wonder if people like that who do awful things or hurt someone so bad would eventually get their karma. I probably still love my husband but I also hate him so much at the same time. I was so mad a few weeks ago that I told him both he and the mistress deserved to die...hit by a car or something. I was furious about what he/they did to me. Why would they deserve their own happiness?


I’m unsure how I feel about karma but in my exH’s case he only lived for a short period after the divorce. His doctor had previously said he could expect 10+ more years if he did all that he was told to do regarding his condition but nope — didn’t happen. I think he might well have gotten those 10+ years if we had remained married because I carefully monitored his condition and helped him manage it but who knows. Done is done.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> I’m unsure how I feel about karma but in my exH’s case he only lived for a short period after the divorce. His doctor had previously said he could expect 10+ more years if he did all that he was told to do regarding his condition but nope — didn’t happen. I think he might well have gotten those 10+ years if we had remained married because I carefully monitored his condition and helped him manage it but who knows. Done is done.


Whoa...what a life. Thank you for sharing!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> Whoa...what a life. Thank you for sharing!


Let’s hope your life doesn’t turn out to be as complicated as mine.😁


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> Let’s hope your life doesn’t turn out to be as complicated as mine.😁


By the way, why did you say "I think you’ll end up staying with him..."?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> By the way, why did you say "I think you’ll end up staying with him..."?


I’ve been here a very long time (read for awhile before I finally joined). At this point I’ve read tons of infidelity stories and I get a pretty good sense after reading a few posts of who’ll go and who’ll stay. I think you’ll stay. It remains to be seen if I’ve guessed right, of course, but my intuition says you likely will. If you do, I hope he becomes the man he should be.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> I’ve been here a very long time (read for awhile before I finally joined). At this point I’ve read tons of infidelity stories and I get a pretty good sense after reading a few posts of who’ll go and who’ll stay. I think you’ll stay. It remains to be seen if I’ve guessed right, of course, but my intuition says you likely will. If you do, I hope he becomes the man he should be.


I have been seeing a life coach every two weeks after d-day. I'm going to see a therapist on my own starting next week besides seeing the MC with my husband once a week. I hope they will help me make better decisions.

But I really don't know. My head/gut and my heart are NOT in the same place at the moment. My biggest fear is I don't know how to trust him again. I just don't know how to get over it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> I don't know yet. My head/gut and my heart are NOT in the same place at the moment. My biggest fear is I don't know how to trust him again. I don't know how to get over it.


The battle between the heart and the brain is usually one that the brain loses (certainly true for many years in my case). Emotions very often trump logic. Our brain tells us that one path might be the better one but our heart tells us the other path is best. And more often than not we go with our heart. I think that’s what you’ll do. I just hope it’ll be worth it if that’s where you end up. You’ll never again trust him the way you once did and you shouldn’t. Be very cautious with your heart now that you know what he’s capable of. Time can help and you have lots of time. I was able to be casual friends with my exH after the divorce — and enjoyed seeing him at family functions — but there’s no way I would have remarried him. My limit was reached and I was done. You’ll know with time whether or not your limit has been reached.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> The battle between the heart and the brain is usually one that the brain loses (certainly true for many years in my case). Emotions very often trump logic. Our brain tells us that one path might be the better one but our heart tells us the other path is best. And more often than not we go with our heart. I think that’s what you’ll do. I just hope it’ll be worth it if that’s where you end up. You’ll never again trust him the way you once did and you shouldn’t. Be very cautious with your heart now that you know what he’s capable of. Time can help and you have lots of time. I was able to be casual friends with my exH after the divorce — and enjoyed seeing him at family functions — but there’s no way I would have remarried him. My limit was reached and I was done. You’ll know with time whether or not your limit has been reached.


But I'm not sure if I want to stay with someone that I don't or can't trust completely...isn't it the basic thing in a relationship?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Sorry but right now you don’t have a marriage. You can’t save what you don’t have. A marriage takes two. 
Right now you’ve got some hopium going on. No one can make you a chump but yourself. 
A lot can’t make a decision in these situations so they linger in self imposed limbo. 
Unless you get strong and stay there you are in for a long hard road.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> But I'm not sure if I want to stay with someone that I don't or can't trust completely...isn't it the basic thing in a relationship?


You have to rebuild. Start all over. And he’ll need to understand that. As to trust, before you’ve dealt with infidelity you usually trust 100% (I definitely did). But after your heart has been ripped out and danced all over then you aren’t as anxious to trust that way again. If you stay with him, some trust will have to be there or you’ll drive yourself crazy with anxiety but not 100% trust. That type of blind trust is asking for a repeat. You’ll be more cautious in the future if you stay. Things have changed forever. You have time to see how this goes. If you decide no then you just walk away. If you decide yes then you both have a great deal of work ahead. If I’m making it sound easier to leave than stay that’s because for me it was. That may not be true for you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hi2super said:


> Is it possible to have full custody because he cheated? I googled it before but not sure if that's how it works.


It's not likely that his cheating will impact custody or the amount of time he has with the children.

You might want to talk to an attorney about this. A lot of attorneys will give a half hour to hour appointment free so you can interview them. Their hope is that it will convice you to hire them. Get appointments with 2 or 3 and ask them questions that you have such as how child custody, asset/lability split, etc. will work in your state.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> You have to rebuild. Start all over. And he’ll need to understand that. As to trust, before you’ve dealt with infidelity you usually trust 100% (I definitely did). But after your heart has been ripped out and danced all over then you aren’t as anxious to trust that way again. If you stay with him, some trust will have to be there or you’ll drive yourself crazy with anxiety but not 100% trust. That type of blind trust is asking for a repeat. You’ll be more cautious in the future if you stay. Things have changed forever. You have time to see how this goes. If you decide no then you just walk away. If you decide yes then you both have a great deal of work ahead. If I’m making it sound easier to leave than stay that’s because for me it was. That may not be true for you.


I am fully aware if I choose to stay with him, it will be even more difficult than leaving..I have to learn to forgive and trust. He also needs to figure out how to forget that mistress who they had a history for so long. Like he said it too, we don't know if we will get there...or even just the way it was before when he was content with life. But being content isn't even enough for me. I need to be truly happy. I don't want to just have a picture-perfect marriage.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> It's not likely that his cheating will impact custody or the amount of time he has with the children.
> 
> You might want to talk to an attorney about this. A lot of attorneys will give a half hour to hour appointment free so you can interview them. Their hope is that it will convice you to hire them. Get appointments with 2 or 3 and ask them questions that you have such as how child custody, asset/lability split, etc. will work in your state.


I live in NY. I will find some to talk to if I decide to go that path. Thank you!


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> Sorry but right now you don’t have a marriage. You can’t save what you don’t have. A marriage takes two.
> Right now you’ve got some hopium going on. No one can make you a chump but yourself.
> A lot can’t make a decision in these situations so they linger in self imposed limbo.
> Unless you get strong and stay there you are in for a long hard road.


At this moment, I'm the one making the call. If I choose to stay, there will still be a marriage. If not, we will go separate ways. We are actually living separately now. But we are not doing it legally. It's just not easy to decide. I will mostly wait and see how everything goes especially if he is really changed long term, if he is really fully committed in this relationship. I definitely won't let him come back just for the kids. I'm not part of the package deal!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Do you work? Are your parents still living with you?


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Blondilocks said:


> Do you work? Are your parents still living with you?


Yes, I do work. I can financially support the family and my kids on my own although I don't make a lot of money. My parents are still living with me and the kids. They used to have a place on their own but they sold it already so they got nowhere else to go.

When I kicked out my husband 6 weeks ago, his family was trying to help us back together. My husband must have told them that it was my parents who made our marriage bad since I was always on their side and they always had different opinions. He was isolated and miserable after they moved in. So his side of the family (mom and sis-in-law) asked me if my parents could live in the new place (next building) that my husband was going to move to. In this case, it will just be the two of us with the kids so we can re-build our relationship from scratch. I don't know if I like this idea much. I don't even want my husband to be here for that many hours even on weekends these days. It's just so hard that we are both "forced" to do things together as a couple while he doesn't love me and I still hate him very much. I am trying to learn how to forgive as the same question I have been asking myself everyday and my life coach every time we talked.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It looks like you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that you actively allowed your parents to interfere with your marriage and it appears you still don't want to do anything about that. It's amazing that your husband had a second child with you given the living conditions you forced him to endure.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

hi2super said:


> According to him, he said if he was content like he used to be in the beginning of our marriage, he wouldn't have cheated. He said he was miserable the past few years. But being miserable isn't an excuse to cheat. A lot of people are miserable in their marriage but not a lot of them cheat. He said he didn't think about the other woman until he became miserable. He became miserable because we didn't know how to compromise or communicate. He said that to our MC that is our fundamental problem. He said I talked to him a lot back then but the way I communicated was not effective. He, on the other hand, didn't even communicate much and just shut the door emotionally. But how would I know if next time, he is miserable, he won't cheat again? He said he won't ever do that again in this life. But how will I know? He hid it so well. I trusted him and didn't check his phone. All our credit card bills and phone bills looked clean. I am just too gullible...


He is essentially blaming you for making him cheat. He will say anything at this point (more lies) to get you to believe him. Stop being gullible.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

hi2super said:


> I have been seeing a life coach every two weeks after d-day. I'm going to see a therapist on my own starting next week besides seeing the MC with my husband once a week. I hope they will help me make better decisions.
> 
> But I really don't know. My head/gut and my heart are NOT in the same place at the moment. My biggest fear is I don't know how to trust him again. I just don't know how to get over it.


He would need to get you over it, through incredible work and effort and acceptance of his role in this. And he is not going to do that.

You getting over it on your own is called rugsweeping, and it will come back to bite you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I wouldn’t say that I 100% forgave my husband and I certainly didn’t 100% trust him when I decided to reconcile. Whatever there was — and none of it was ever anywhere near 100% — came with time.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Imo, don't stay for the kids. That's such an unhealthy example of a marriage to model to them. They won't see it now, but kids can become perceptive as they grow. They'll see that something is not quite right between Mom and Dad, that they don't love each other as they should. And they'll internalize it as them being the cause.

It sounds like you were second choice. He's staying for the kids; it seems like you got together under less than favorable circumstances. He sounds like he's trying to be a good parent, but what exactly is there to save apart from that?


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Blondilocks said:


> It looks like you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that you actively allowed your parents to interfere with your marriage and it appears you still don't want to do anything about that. It's amazing that your husband had a second child with you given the living conditions you forced him to endure.


I'm not sure if my parents really interfere with my marriage. They even tried to convince me to let him move back these days after years of miserable lives together with him. We were all suffering these years. My husband is the type who is not easy to get along with in the first place. He doesn't know how to communicate. When he is not happy, he just shuts the door emotionally. That's what happened whenever we had a fight in the past. Like he said, we are both very stubborn and didn't know how to compromise. He said that's how he emotionally detached from me gradually over the years. I didn't know he was that miserable although I did know he wasn't happy. Well, I wasn't happy the whole time either. But I had been trying to pull the family together. But obviously, he chose to leave me. Like he said, he left me but he didn't leave the kids. It still shouldn't be the reason to cheat. There are just other ways to fix our marital issues. They were still easier to fix before cheating.

He came over today. I asked him what exactly his plan was before he got kicked out since his new place (next building) was already under contract. He said he was trying to figure out our situation at that time and hopefully would know better after he moved. Since he got kicked out all a sudden, it made him realize things a lot earlier and quicker than he expected. He said he really had no plan with the other woman especially she is also married. Her kids are 4 and 7 yo. It was day by day for him. None of them planned to get a divorce. If I didn't check his phone, he would just keep hiding and sleeping with her whenever. When he moved out, no one would ever find out what happened. He wouldn't need to hide much anymore. And if we ever get a divorce, the world and even myself would just blame me/my parents to cause his miserable life.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Spoons027 said:


> Imo, don't stay for the kids. That's such an unhealthy example of a marriage to model to them. They won't see it now, but kids can become perceptive as they grow. They'll see that something is not quite right between Mom and Dad, that they don't love each other as they should. And they'll internalize it as them being the cause.
> 
> It sounds like you were second choice. He's staying for the kids; it seems like you got together under less than favorable circumstances. He sounds like he's trying to be a good parent, but what exactly is there to save apart from that?


He is trying to be a good father and person for sure, especially all those things I pointed out during our second MC session. He knew he had been an a**hole the whole time. Like I told him before, he isn't a bad person like he wouldn't kill anyone. But he is not a good person either. He is not kind or has a good heart, cold and mean to people around him sometimes. 

He is probably trying to be a good partner too. It might be enough to me in the past. But I need more than that now. I need to be loved and valued. Like I told him, I won't settle for less anymore!


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> I wouldn’t say that I 100% forgave my husband and I certainly didn’t 100% trust him when I decided to reconcile. Whatever there was — and none of it was ever anywhere near 100% — came with time.


Sounds like all those years you spent with him after you forgave him were not easy...that's what I'm afraid of too. It seems I may be happier if I end up with someone else or even alone. But when I think of the kids..I just don't know what to do with him.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

re16 said:


> He would need to get you over it, through incredible work and effort and acceptance of his role in this. And he is not going to do that.
> 
> You getting over it on your own is called rugsweeping, and it will come back to bite you.


rugsweeping..."forgive" but not forget...how could anyone ever forget?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

hi2super said:


> At this moment, I'm the one making the call. If I choose to stay, there will still be a marriage. If not, we will go separate ways. We are actually living separately now. But we are not doing it legally. It's just not easy to decide. I will mostly wait and see how everything goes especially if he is really changed long term, if he is really fully committed in this relationship. I definitely won't let him come back just for the kids. I'm not part of the package deal!


The guy had NO PROBLEM lying to your face day after day after day after day after day after day for HOW long???? At least a year and a half????

If you stay, you're agreeing to eat the **** sandwich he CHOSE to serve up to you. Better learn how to smile while you're eating it.

Don't you find it odd how he *DIDN'T* want to change and "be the man you want him to be!" when he was having his fun with his girlfriend for that year and a half? Funny how they ONLY want to 'change' and suddenly become Husband 2.0 only AFTER you catch their ass. I'm not being mean, I'm being *HONEST.*

Think twice before swallowing your pride and taking this one back. He's already shown you LOUD AND CLEAR exactly who he is.

Personally, I would have kicked his ass out the door so hard his mother would have felt it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> Sounds like all those years you spent with him after you forgave him were not easy...that's what I'm afraid of too. It seems I may be happier if I end up with someone else or even alone. But when I think of the kids..I just don't know what to do with him.


No, they definitely weren’t easy. My child was close to being a teenager the first time I caught my husband cheating. I thought I was doing the right thing by reconciling because I felt he would very much be an absentee dad if we divorced and if I stayed we would all be together and maybe we could rebuild and have a better marriage. Nope. Nothing changed, despite his promises, except that he got more careful. And my child, as an adult, said I should have gotten divorced then and not waited. I’m an excellent example of what not to do when dealing with a cheater.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> No, they definitely weren’t easy. My child was close to being a teenager the first time I caught my husband cheating. I thought I was doing the right thing by reconciling because I felt he would very much be an absentee dad if we divorced and if I stayed we would all be together and maybe we could rebuild and have a better marriage. Nope. Nothing changed, despite his promises, except that he got more careful. And my child, as an adult, said I should have gotten divorced then and not waited. I’m an excellent example of what not to do when dealing with a cheater.


Yes..your son was definitely old enough to witness the whole thing. In my case, my kids' ages are actually the best time for me to get divorced. Our youngest 1.5 yo probably won't even notice any difference. Our 4yo doesn't really understand what's going on. She even asked her daddy during video chat yesterday if he has his other kids running around at the place he is staying (he is staying with his brother and his family at the moment). He didn't know how to answer. She also asked him why he couldn't come home to stay with us like before. He said he did something bad to mommy. It hurts when I hear that each time.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> Yes..your son was definitely old enough to witness the whole thing. In my case, my kids' ages are actually the best time for me to get divorced. Our youngest 1.5 yo probably won't even notice any difference. Our 4yo doesn't really understand what's going on. She even asked her daddy during video chat yesterday if he has his other kids running around at the place he is staying (he is staying with his brother and his family at the moment). He didn't know how to answer. She also asked him why he couldn't come home to stay with us like before. He said he did something bad to mommy. It hurts when I hear that each time.


The younger the children are the better (when their parents divorce) IMO. Having said that, however, my youngest grandchild was around the age of your daughter at the time of his parents’ divorce and that hasn’t worked out well. All of my grandchildren are young adults now and we’re still dealing with the effects of the divorce all these years later. Of course, a lot of that is due to the other side being as uncooperative and difficult as possible during those years. If you should divorce, I hope the two of you can coparent well. It makes a tremendous difference for everyone.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> The younger the children are the better (when their parents divorce) IMO. Having said that, however, my youngest grandchild was around the age of your daughter at the time of his parents’ divorce and that hasn’t worked out well. All of my grandchildren are young adults now and we’re still dealing with the effects of the divorce all these years later. Of course, a lot of that is due to the other side being as uncooperative and difficult as possible during those years. If you should divorce, I hope the two of you can coparent well. It makes a tremendous difference for everyone.


I really don't know yet. I feel like I could probably just leave it the way it is for the next few years...I know it doesn't sound good. But I want to focus myself and the kids for now. He or my marriage is not my top priority at the moment. I don't know if he will really change or forgets that woman. So the "best" thing to do is to wait and see, I guess.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Why would you fight for a man who has never really loved you? You say you love him but do you? Do you really? Why?? Completely disgusting how he’s trying to blame his his decision to cheat on “being miserable.” Bullshtt. He did it because he wanted to and that’s it. 

This is a toxic situation for your kids, and they and YOU deserve better. Divorce him and take him for everything you can. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

3Xnocharm said:


> Why would you fight for a man who has never really loved you? You say you love him but do you? Do you really? Why?? Completely disgusting how he’s trying to blame his his decision to cheat on “being miserable.” Bullshtt. He did it because he wanted to and that’s it.
> 
> This is a toxic situation for your kids, and they and YOU deserve better. Divorce him and take him for everything you can.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree what you said. I really don't. I know I deserve better too.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

hi2super said:


> At this moment, I'm the one making the call. If I choose to stay, there will still be a marriage. If not, we will go separate ways. We are actually living separately now. But we are not doing it legally. It's just not easy to decide. I will mostly wait and see how everything goes especially if he is really changed long term, if he is really fully committed in this relationship. I definitely won't let him come back just for the kids. I'm not part of the package deal!


Double check with the laws. In some states, any time habitaing separate residences count for time of separation.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

maquiscat said:


> Double check with the laws. In some states, any time habitaing separate residences count for time of separation.


Does it mean we will need to get divorced if we are separated for too long even if it's not on paper? We have never filed for anything so far. We live in NY.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

hi2super said:


> Does it mean we will need to get divorced if we are separated for too long even if it's not on paper? We have never filed for anything so far. We live in NY.


No. To my knowledge, no state ever forced a couple to be divorced. You could remain separate for the rest of your lives and still be legally married. Some states simply require that the couple be separate for a given period, varying by state. Of those some require that the separation be registered with the court or other legal authority, while others simply want proof of the separation. Even that varies, with some willing to accept the word of the couple if both state the same thing, to evidence like bills and such to establish residency.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

maquiscat said:


> No. To my knowledge, no state ever forced a couple to be divorced. You could remain separate for the rest of your lives and still be legally married. Some states simply require that the couple be separate for a given period, varying by state. Of those some require that the separation be registered with the court or other legal authority, while others simply want proof of the separation. Even that varies, with some willing to accept the word of the couple if both state the same thing, to evidence like bills and such to establish residency.


I googled it, it says in NYS, "*you and your spouse must have been living apart, under your separation agreement, for at least one year*. " So I guess if I want to get divorced one day, we need to be legally separate for a year first. What we are doing isn't legal. I guess that's probably what happened he and his ex-wife. When I met him, it was toward the end of his separation. His ex-wife filed for divorce after she left him.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

hi2super said:


> I googled it, it says in NYS, "*you and your spouse must have been living apart, under your separation agreement, for at least one year*. " So I guess if I want to get divorced one day, we need to be legally separate for a year first. What we are doing isn't legal. I guess that's probably what happened he and his ex-wife. When I met him, it was toward the end of his separation. His ex-wife filed for divorce after she left him.


Well it's legal. It just won't count towards your separation period required by the state. Keep in mind that you can file and start your legal separation period, and always change your mind afterwards. Double check, but while there is a minimum, I don't think there is a maximum period where it gets thrown out the window afterwards. So basically, I would file now and that would end up leaving me the most options for later. Again, check with a lawyer first.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

maquiscat said:


> Well it's legal. It just won't count towards your separation period required by the state. Keep in mind that you can file and start your legal separation period, and always change your mind afterwards. Double check, but while there is a minimum, I don't think there is a maximum period where it gets thrown out the window afterwards. So basically, I would file now and that would end up leaving me the most options for later. Again, check with a lawyer first.


But people usually start dating while separated, he did that back then with me. I didn't know better. Now I don't think it's right to date anyone until you are legal divorced. If I file that now, what's the point to keep seeing the MC then?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

hi2super said:


> But people usually start dating while separated, he did that back then with me. I didn't know better. Now I don't think it's right to date anyone until you are legal divorced. If I file that now, what's the point to keep seeing the MC then?


The idea of the separation period is to provide a chance for reconciliation. There usually is no requirement for the effort of it. It's up to you whether you want to try to salvage this or not.

But in all honesty, it seems like the only reason you are considering it is due to a taught social pressure that says you're supposed to.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

maquiscat said:


> The idea of the separation period is to provide a chance for reconciliation. There usually is no requirement for the effort of it. It's up to you whether you want to try to salvage this or not.
> 
> But in all honesty, it seems like the only reason you are considering it is due to a taught social pressure that says you're supposed to.


Thank you, maquiscat! I'm in no rush to do anything with him at the moment. Will see how everything goes..to see how exactly he has changed especially his actions toward me.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

hi2super said:


> Thank you, maquiscat! I'm in no rush to do anything with him at the moment. Will see how everything goes..to see how exactly he has changed especially his actions toward me.


Do you know if he is still seeing/talkng to the old gf?


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

I honestly don't know. I did bring it up during our MC session yesterday. Since WH and I don't talk or communicate much these days (he is staying with his brother and his family but will move out this weekend), I don't really know what he is up to. So I told them that I have no idea if they still interact with each other. The MC said my H wouldn't be here if he still talks to her. I said "I don't know the answer, only he knows". I told the MC that he definitely still has feelings for her. It's someone that he had EA with initially then PA the entire 1.5 years. He said that himself too that he still thinks of her sometimes these days. I honestly don't know how he will ever get over her. He never truly did the past 20+ years. The more I think about our marriage and how he had treated me the past decade, the more I think about what he did with her, the more I don't think it's worth trying. I am getting really tired mentally. Plus, I'm not seeing anything really changed between me and him or just him so far. We are still the same. We even argued in front of the MC on Zoom yesterday, the same way we used to fight. I really don't know how to make it work. I know I need to fix myself like he pointed out, I need to fix my communication skill since what I say to him or people close to me is offensive sometimes. That's how he emotionally detached himself from me. I don't disagree. I will need to work on that. But he honestly has a lot more to fix himself like why it was ok for him to cheat in the first place. He just doesn't seem to get it. I don't know if he understands if he doesn't get himself fixed, there is no way our relationship will ever be improved.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The MC is wrong. Your husband doesn’t want a divorce but that doesn’t mean he wants to 100% give his gf up so, yes, he could be doing MC while she's still in the picture. My exH fought the divorce the first time and the second time but his gf was still in the picture after we reconciled (I just didn’t know it).


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> The MC is wrong. Your husband doesn’t want a divorce but that doesn’t mean he wants to 100% give his gf up so, yes, he could be doing MC while she's still in the picture. My exH fought the divorce the first time and the second time but his gf was still in the picture after we reconciled (I just didn’t know it).


I didn't know this gf of my H either in the past. I knew there was a girl with that name but didn't know they had a history. He never told me that before.

Did your exH end up with his gf after the divorce?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> I didn't know this gf of my H either in the past. I knew there was a girl with that name but didn't know they had a history. He never told me that before.
> 
> Did your exH end up with his gf after the divorce?


Nope. I told him he was finally free to marry her and his response was that he wasn’t going to. My feeling is that he didn’t think she was marriage material. But he did immediately get on an online dating site and marry a woman the moment the divorce was final that he had only known a few months.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> Nope. I told him he was finally free to marry her and his response was that he wasn’t going to. My feeling is that he didn’t think she was marriage material. But he did immediately get on an online dating site and marry a woman the moment the divorce was final that he had only known a few months.


How have you been doing after divorce? Do you have kids together?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Your MC is a moron and you should find a new one. A friend of mine who was going to counseling with her husband after she cheated on him, was sleeping with another man while they were seeing the MC. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

3Xnocharm said:


> Your MC is a moron and you should find a new one. A friend of mine who was going to counseling with her husband after she cheated on him, was sleeping with another man while they were seeing the MC.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How to tell if a MC is good? I know she isn't that good since there has been four sessions and I still haven't heard any good suggestion from her. She suggested date nights last time like that would re-connect two unhappy persons together. She is also my husband's IC and I haven't seen much change except he seems to be a little more caring toward everyone including myself and a better father. But relationship-wise, no change. Like I said to him during our last session, he doesn't seem to have the heart to know what's the right thing to do with me. I honestly don't know what he should do since they both asked me that question. I just don't feel right about things he has and hasn't done this whole time. I don't get any emotional support from him. I can't even vent much since he would consider that as nagging like I always did to him in the past. To him, it's just another bad thing he did in the past but not anymore. WH has been telling me to work on the relationship with him. But I think he should fix himself first. I am NOT the cheater here! And I need to heal. I don't even know how to do that alone. I admit that I have to get better with my communication skills since he said my words toward him were always offensive. But even if I improve my part, it doesn't mean our relationship will be fixed. He has a lot more to fix. Like I pointed it out but he didn't agree - he never truly loved me during the relationship. He was never a good husband. He is broken and lost. He doesn't even seem to know where to start. I told both of them that he probably needs to see a life coach too. They didn't seem it would help. The MC doesn't think it's necessary. I really don't know what to do with him tbh. I wish he could just leave me alone with the kids.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> How have you been doing after divorce? Do you have kids together?


Our child was an adult when we divorced. I love my current life. My only regret is that I didn’t get out the first time. I wasted decades of my life on someone I never should have been with. Easy to see that now, of course, but not so easy when I was in the middle of it.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> Our child was an adult when we divorced. I love my current life. My only regret is that I didn’t get out the first time. I wasted decades of my life on someone I never should have been with. Easy to see that now, of course, but not so easy when I was in the middle of it.


Why did you give him the chance again and again in the past? Did you trust him after he cheated the first time? I don't know how I can ever trust WH again. I can't stay in a relationship with someone I don't trust.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hi2super said:


> Why did you give him the chance again and again in the past? Did you trust him after he cheated the first time? I don't know how I can ever trust WH again. I can't stay in a relationship with someone I don't trust.


My upbringing played a huge role in choosing to stay the first time. I strongly believed in marriage then (no divorces in my family). I think it’s not a good idea to trust a cheater the way you did before you knew what they were capable of. When I decided to reconcile, I did trust my exH to keep his promises, not 100% but certainly some, but the logical part of me was very skeptical — with good reason as it turned out. If I could redo all of that I would have gotten out the first time and not wasted so much time trying to make it work.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> My upbringing played a huge role in choosing to stay the first time. I strongly believed in marriage then (no divorces in my family). I think it’s not a good idea to trust a cheater the way you did before you knew what they were capable of. When I decided to reconcile, I did trust my exH to keep his promises, not 100% but certainly some, but the logical part of me was very skeptical — with good reason as it turned out. If I could redo all of that I would have gotten out the first time and not wasted so much time trying to make it work.


You are not the first one who gave her cheating husband another chance but found out he cheated again even after all the promises. In this case, "once a cheater always a cheater'. I know everyone's story is different. But I also strongly believed in marriage as well. I never expected myself in this situation at all. I thought my WH learned from his marriage. I thought people like him should know better. He didn't cheat on his ex wife. In fact, he was cheated on. I told him that he should definitely know how I feel. But he said he already emotionally checked out and had no faith at that time. And they didn't have kids together so leaving was a better option.

My WH promised he wouldn't cheat again in this lifetime. In fact, his family doesn't have divorce either. If I decide to leave the marriage, he will be the only divorced man with two failed marriages. I know I don't need to worry that. I just feel really bad for my kids. They are just too young (1.5 and 4). But I know it's also a good age. I even told him in the beginning if we still can't reconcile by the time our youngest turns 3, we should just go separate way. Kids will start understanding things at that age..just like our 4yo now. I know having a timeline like this doesn't sound reasonable, but I don't want to waste too much either since I feel I have wasted the last decade with this guy.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Don’t let your children live in a broken home. They’re a lot more perceptive than you think.

And don’t bank on your WH’s promises alone. It’s all just lip service if he doesn’t back those words up with actions.


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## hi2super (10 mo ago)

Spoons027 said:


> Don’t let your children live in a broken home. They’re a lot more perceptive than you think.
> 
> And don’t bank on your WH’s promises alone. It’s all just lip service if he doesn’t back those words up with actions.


Understood. I definitely won't consider to reconcile until he is truly remorseful. Somehow, I feel he feels sorry for himself more than me. We don't even talk much these days except when he comes to visit the kids on weekends. I am getting used to live with just my kids and parents. They are the best thing to me in the world!


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