# Spouse Wants Independence



## needhelp1976 (Apr 14, 2012)

This morning I didn't leave the house until my H did so he couldn't just walk out the door with his bag to go away for the weekend. He moved into another bedroom in October 2011 and has told me there are other women. He goes away every weekend and is out many weeknights but we are still living in the same house.

Please give me your take on this:

_I'm trying my best not to shove my desire for independence in your face. It's hard to do that when you stay up late waiting for me to come home, hang around like this morning where I had to leave in front of you. Clearly you aren't trying to live your own life as well, still hoping for me to do something, still trying to get my attention. That's not going to happen. Maybe I haven't made myself clear enough to you. Let me try again.

There is something I need you to absolutely understand, because I fear you don't. You spent so much energy worrying about another woman that you have failed to really see what is happening here. This is NOT about some other woman. This is NOT merely a mid-life crisis, having-a-fling thing. This is 
NOT something where you wait around for me to get it out of my system. And despite what those people on that website have been telling you, this is NOT something where I might notice you again, get interested in why you're staying out late, "want to come back to you" etc. This was NOT done on a 
whim. And this is NOT temporary. I will live the rest of my life absolutely alone before I will settle for anything less than the kind of life and love that I'm looking for, and have no problem doing so. 

I want to live my life. I want to find my happiness. I want to find my kind of love. I do not want to sit around wasting time, getting old, waiting to die. And I certainly don't want to die without ever trying. I want to spend every moment I can trying new things, experiencing new things, living life. 

You and I have a special relationship, a special friendship. That should not change. I've asked you several times if you need me to move out, and you've always answered no. From the look on your face this morning, it appears that you will not resign yourself to seeing our relationship as 
partners and friends and living that way. And for whatever advice you're getting, which is either bad advice or good advice that you are not heeding, the message I'm receiving is you cannot move forward with me living there with you. _

I have taken the Teleboot Camp and am trying to save my marriage. I don't know how to respond but do not intend to do it through email.

Any advice?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

He seems pretty damned determined.

What does he claim he`s not getting from you to prompt a statement like...

"And this is NOT temporary. I will live the rest of my life absolutely alone before I will settle for anything less than the kind of life and love that I'm looking for,"

If he wants out so bad why isn`t he moving for divorce?

Why isn`t he moving out if he wants out so bad?


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## dragonfli (Apr 10, 2012)

I can SOO relate to this


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Ok so he is self centered a$$hole. Why hasn't he filed for divorce?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## needhelp1976 (Apr 14, 2012)

I don't know why my H hasn't moved out or filed for divorce. I think he thought we could live together as roommates while he sought his happiness and I was supposed to find mine. 

Of course my happiness lies with keeping my family together and being with him.

What he didn't get from me was enough sex. It is difficult to explain why - we were in a bad cycle - I didn't get the emotional connection to want sex.

Now that I have taken Teleboot Camp, I understand my fixings but he doesn't want to have anything to do with me. So I am just trying talk charges and a few touch charges but he told me to stop recently.

Oh - I also need to say that he doesn't talk to me face to face in such an angry, determined manner - only through email. When we talk, we are cordial and even laugh sometimes. I am not sure people would know there are problems if you were in the same room with us.


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## justabovewater (Jun 26, 2011)

Ouch. That is pretty heavy stuff, and heart breaking. Although he's not put it into words like your husband did here, I feel this is exactly what my husband would say to me. I have to agree with Tacoma in that why hasn't he moved out and filed already if he wants out so bad. How dare he prance around, living the life he wants right under your nose. I understand how badly you want to save your marriage, but you can't let him do this to you. As hard as it is to accept that my marriage is most definitely over, i certainly don't want him here if he doesn't love me or want to be married to me anymore.


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## needhelp1976 (Apr 14, 2012)

I understand that he shouldn't be doing all of these things without taking the steps to divorce but he is.

I will not be the one to file. I will not have that on my conscience. He will have to do the work and make the decision. I haven't done much crying in front of him, have not chased him or pleaded. I am just standing my ground when it comes to saving the marriage. I know I can't make him try but I don't have to give up. 

This is one of the most painful times in my life. I don't have friends to go out with - I dedicated my time to my family and worked full-time. I am looking for ways to volunteer around town and keep myself busy. But I am not going to file for a divorce - H will have to and maybe that is why he is so angry with me because I am not agreeing with his point of view.

I expect H will finally do the work and file. But that hasn't happened yet. And - he only speaks so ugly to me through email. In person, he is actually quite nice.

I appreciate your thoughts -


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## justabovewater (Jun 26, 2011)

P.S. do they ever get enough sex? That was one of the problems with us too. My personal opinion is that men and women arent compatible when it comes to sex. You know, I worked a full time job, birthed 2 children, ran a household and family AND was expected to be available to him whenever the mood hit...which I have to say happend at some of the most inopportune times. Yeah, I turned him down quite alot and looking back at how its felt to be rejected by him, i probably hurt him, but there were plenty of times that he wasn't keeping my needs in mind either. It goes both ways and I don't think he ever understood that. I kind of went on a tangent there, sorry about that. I just get so angry when I think about how just recently he eluded to the fact that I didn't, and still don't do a very good job of running my life/house/finances/kids, etc. Grrrrrr


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I honestly believe your should re-think the divorce issue.

He`s seriously cake eating.

He gets to screw whoever he wants and still has the little woman to take care of the house and his laundry.

Why do you want to waste your life like this?

Divorce papers might just change the dysfunctional status quo you`ve got going on as well.

What you`re doing isn`t working and all the marriage building seminars in the world won`t help if you`re the only one working at it.

If you were a man posting this you`d have 20 regulars bashing you over the head for being a doormat.


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## justabovewater (Jun 26, 2011)

Me again  I feel the same way you do about the divorce filing, I'm taking the same stance; this is something he wants so he will have to do all the leg work. I'm not lifting one single finger to make this easy for him.


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## needhelp1976 (Apr 14, 2012)

I know it seems as if I am a doormat. I do feel like it often but why should I make it easy for him by filing or telling him to move out?


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## SilverPanther (Feb 2, 2012)

This guy is a total jerk, needhelp, but I do understand your not wanting to file the divorce. I never in a million years saw myself filing a divorce. In the end, I ended up doing so to protect myself legally and even possibly physically. In your situation, I don't believe I would want to file the divorce, either.

But this man is not interested in making things work, and it really does take two. There's nothing much you can do if he is determined to not work on things and pursue his selfish ideals. It is so sad to see, because in the long run, he will end up alone and miserable and probably not even realize why. It's because he threw everything away for what he thinks he "has" to have. But he's torpedoing everything he DOES have to attain something totally ambigous and shallow.

If living with him like this makes you miserable, maybe you should move out? Not file for divorce, but just separate? It might give him pause, too, if you're suddenly not there all the time.

As for sex, I think guys do want it about 100 times more often than most women. However from my observation there seems to be two types of men. Men who are horny but can control themselves and respect the comfort and enjoyment of their partner as well, and men who are horny and expect there to be someone there at their beck and call to please them, and feel their partner is lacking if they aren't.


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## needhelp1976 (Apr 14, 2012)

I plan to give this situation some time - and keep myself centered on my goal of saving the marriage. Trying not to let these rants he sends me through email to affect me that much. Yet, I cry everyday and am so lonely. 

But you know, if I move out I will still cry and still be lonely so where does that get me anyway?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

needhelp1976 said:


> But you know, if I move out I will still cry and still be lonely so where does that get me anyway?


Closer to having a fulfilling life.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Do you have children?

Your husband told you in that letter why he has not moved out or filed for divorce. 

“You and I have a special relationship, a special friendship. That should not change. I've asked you several times if you need me to move out, and you've always answered no. From the look on your face this morning, it appears that you will not resign yourself to seeing our relationship as 
partners and friends and living that way “

Read the above quote over and over until it sinks in. Your husband is a cake eater. Your husband still wants you in his life because you are meeting some of his needs. He wants you as the ‘port in the storm’ and he wants other women and things in his life to fill whatever other needs they are filling.

While I understand you thing about not wanting to be the one who files for divorce, you are actually enabling him to continue this behavior and abuse of you. You make it possible for him to have a family and all the fun he wants.

This brings to mind the Plan A/Plan B from marriage builders. They suggest that a person do plan A… kinda what you have been doing in showing him that you have a lot of offer him…. Then there comes a time when Plan A basically turns you into a doormat. Some WS love this because it actually aids them in their cake eating. When Plan A gets to the point that the WS is using it for their own advantage…. It’s time for Plan B. Read up on Plan B. It’s similar to the 180 a lot of people talk about here. 

To do an affective Plan B, or 180, you will have to ask him to leave and file for divorce. You need to take the cake away from him. Once you do this a few things will happen… one if that you are no longer enabling his cake eating, any affair he is having will start to crumble because now he will depend on it to meet all of his emotional needs and by definition an affair cannot do that. There is no guarantee that he will come back to you. But there is a chance… a much better chance than exists right now. And if he does not, you will fall out of love with him and be divorced. 

What you are doing right now is only helping him continue hurting you while you remain his doormat and cake baker.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

quote: "despite what those people on that website have been telling you, this is NOT something where I might notice you again, get interested in why you're staying out late, "want to come back to you" etc. "

Are you telling your husband the advice you are given on this site and other places? Don't do that if you are. You can see how it's back firing because he just looks at it as you using tacktics to try to trick him into recommitting to your marriage.


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## needhelp1976 (Apr 14, 2012)

I am not sure that I am enabling him. The only reason I would separate is because my actions are pushing him away anyway. Again, I don't plan to make separation or divorce plans - he has to do that. He will probably leave since he wants his independence so much. I should know soon because he is supposed to get a good raise which should give him the bucks to take action.

I do not want this marriage break up to be on my shoulders. I know I had a big part in it but I am willing to try to do better. He is not.


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## needhelp1976 (Apr 14, 2012)

I didn't not tell my H about any advice. Rather he used the history on my computer and found posts I had made on another site.

Yeah - I was quite disappointed because now he thinks I am being manipulative.


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## needhelp1976 (Apr 14, 2012)

Enduring the pain is tough. My stance is strong but I lose my footing everyday and think about separating. Then I realize that separation does not put me in a place to try to save the marriage.

I won't stay a doormat forever -


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## worrieddad (Nov 3, 2011)

Fwiw, I think you should take his offer of him moving out....seems that would be the right thing at this stage. In fact Id insist on it now, not when "he gets his pay raise". By him still living there doing what he wants, all that is happening is he is having his cake and eating it.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I am going to be brutally honest here, NeedHelp1976, even though it is NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR.

"I plan to give this situation some time - and keep myself centered on my goal of saving the marriage." You are NOT going to succeed. Your husband has made it abundantly clear that HE is not interested in saving the marriage. He moved out of your bedroom 6 months ago and is sleeping with other women. He has said so. He is not hiding it, he is not ashamed of it. He is doing what he wants. He has reached the point of no-return and is moving on with his life. 

Maybe it is because I am the one doing the walking away in my marriage and not the one being left behind; but I GET it. Trust me, there IS a point of no return. It makes NO DIFFERENCE what my spouse says to me at this point. I WILL NOT BE STAYING and, apparently, neither will your husband. Nothing you say will change his mind. Nothing you do will change his mind. 

"I didn't leave the house until my H did so he couldn't just walk out the door with his bag to go away for the weekend" If you are trying to 'guilt' him into staying with you, it isn't working. If you are trying to make him 'see' you and what he will be leaving, it isn't working.
He is so unhappy at this point (whether justifiably, or not) that he is not going to be persuaded by you to come back to the marriage. He is spending as little free time (weeknights and weekends) with you as possible.

"I will live the rest of my life absolutely alone before I will settle for anything less than the kind of life and love that I'm looking for" How many times have we read this on these boards? He is DONE. 

People have posited WHY he hasn't moved out or filed for divorce. My guess is, he is following the path of least resistance. Why move out and incur the costs of a new apartment when he can live at the house for the same amount of money as always. Why file for divorce when he can defer those costs indefinitely by living the way you two currently are. He is living like a divorced man without the usual associated financial burden.

He is moving on with his life, with or without the divorce. Will he regret it? Maybe, maybe not. Will you regret it, absolutely! But it won't change anything. You can learn to accept it, and move on and try to establish a new life looking forward; or you can cling to how it used to be and wallow in the unhappiness of not being able to save your marriage single-handedly.

It is NOT what you want, but it is what it is. Your hanging around the door waiting for him to leave for his entertaining weekend is probably just cementing for him that he made the right decision. If you try the 180 on him, he will probably be relieved believing that you are disengaging emotionally from the relationship and 'moving on.'

I know this is NOT what you want, but it is like trying to stop the tide or trying to make the world spin in the opposite direction. It is NOT going to happen no matter how much you would like to make it so.

You will need to grieve for as long as it takes, but eventually you will have to accept it and move on with your life. I'm sorry.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Doing the same thing over and over and always getting the same bad results is insanity.


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## needhelp1976 (Apr 14, 2012)

I know Slowinggettingwiser is probably right.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

needhelp1976 said:


> I will not be the one to file. I will not have that on my conscience. He will have to do the work and make the decision.


Why have being disrespected and trod upon on your conscience? If it's a religious reason, I understand that can be very difficult. Your conscience will be much better suited to happiness if you treat yourself with the respect you deserve. He wants his freedom? Let him have it. 10 bucks he suddenly changes his attitude. And if not, c'est la vie. He was gone anyway, he even told you so.

As for him having to do the work and make the decision...it seems he already has made the decision, he just wants to string it out to make sure it's the right one, at your expense. That was a very clear message in his email. He is telling you exactly where he stands. And he stands as a self-centered jerk...but about this position he seems to be clear and straightforward. Let him go. Better yet - make him go.

Just tell him "Been thinking about your email. You're right. I have been trying to guilt you into saving the marriage. I've been doing this because I don't want it to end. But since you are so clear that you 're done caring about me or us, let's move forward for ourselves. I won't stand to sit here and watch you go out and defile our marriage claiming to be 'finding yourself'. Hey - I found you - turns out your an a$$hole. So I'm taking you up on your offer to leave. Tonight would be great, go stay with one of your girlfriends. You can pick up the rest of your things in a few weeks when I'm out of town staying with _____ for a day or two. Good night!"

Then watch his reaction. Take it or leave it, you know what's best for you. Start handling the situation with YOU in mind. Good luck...


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## needhelp1976 (Apr 14, 2012)

I can envision this....don't know if I can actually act on the vision though.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

That's the thing about life-changing situations like this. If you take the plunge you find yourself doing and saying things you never thought you would. And as scary as it is to put this kinda thing on the table, you will most likely feel better for taking it into your own hands.

By waiting for him to do everything you're allowing him to dictate how things will go in your life. Problem is, he doesn't have your best interests in mind right now. He has his own. You're just one of the players on his chessboard. And you're not the queen.

Your call. Maybe you could try small steps. Incorporate small parts of 180 if you're not comfortable going all in. First, don't ask him about your relationship anymore. Don't try to make plans with him. Let him come to you if he wants to talk about anything serious. Right now he's smiley in front of you because he *doesn't want to deal with anything heavy*. When you force the discussion, he backs off and sends you emails like the one at the top of your thread.


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## needhelp1976 (Apr 14, 2012)

You are so right. He can't deal with anything when it comes to me. He would feel better if I found someone else too. But that is not going to happen while we are still married. I stick to my vows.

I will stop trying to make him guilty. He certainly does push back when I do. If he moves out, then who knows what consequences that will bring. But I will not tip toe around in my own house and stay in my bedroom when he is here. This is my home.


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## sd212 (Feb 24, 2012)

You really need to focus on SlowlyGettingWiser's post. 
You won't get better advice than that. Slowly is so right and if you could step back and read your own posts it might help.

You DO NOT DESERVE THIS!


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## Purple Haze (Apr 15, 2012)

Moving on is hard but you have to start somewhere to get to any end. If you save the marriage now, will you be happy with it? Will he? Will you always wonder when it will happen again? I say move him down the road and start to heal and build a life for youself. I am not anti marriage, I have just been there and survived a cheating ex spouse. Not still with that spouse.


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## needhelp1976 (Apr 14, 2012)

Moving on....
I have reread the posts and my H's email. 
Will try to move on.


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## needhelp1976 (Apr 14, 2012)

Moving on is so hard. I am losing touch with my H. He is around so seldom that when he is around I don't know him anymore.

I guess that is the way it has to be to be able to move. Just let what little bit of love we have left die.


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## MOMMY2ONE (Mar 6, 2012)

[I feel for u , i'm goin thru the same thing my h thinks he's done nothin wrong i asked for the divorce and told him to move in with the lil skank and he says no that he' s not leavin i can't afford lawyer so i'm givin him the same hell he's givin me . They don't understand how much it hurts. QUOTE=needhelp1976;678810]I know it seems as if I am a doormat. I do feel like it often but why should I make it easy for him by filing or telling him to move out?[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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