# Need ideas thinking outside the box for evidence gathering



## monpetitchou (Apr 20, 2020)

X


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

They might not hold all the answers.. Because if he uses some aps they can call via those and they'd not be held on the phone or the device.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Why do you want to stay when you don’t trust him?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

You don't need "concrete evidence", always go with what your gut is telling you. Most times the betrayed never do get any.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

You could hire a Private Investigator.


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## monpetitchou (Apr 20, 2020)

Beach123 said:


> Why do you want to stay when you don’t trust him?


the stakes are pretty high. we have a toddler and there’s a small piece of me that’s saying I can’t blow up our family over what could potentially not be anything or something not so good, but that I could justify moving past for the sake of our child.


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## monpetitchou (Apr 20, 2020)

Spicy said:


> You could hire a Private Investigator.


Considering it strongly. Kind of waiting anyway until we settle back into a more normal routine post quarantine.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The common wisdom is to keep mum until you've had time to do as much sleuthing as you can. My experience here is that's usually true, although my own nature would have me sitting him down and directly telling him that he's acting shady and that I want the truth.

That being said, I would suggest starting with the phone bill, bank account statements, CC statements. See if you can find some patterns. If you can get onto a computer that he uses but doesn't have locked down, you can install a keylogger.

You can also use one of the online services to search for accounts associated with his email/name. He may have secret email addresses, facebook accounts, etc.

Best of luck. As stated above, you can also hire a PI to do the digging for you. These days they can get a lot of the electronic activity.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I have a husband who has a phone. We have computers and tablets, they are locked, but we both have the same passwords. I have access to all electronics, and all accounts. 

Trust is very important in a relationship. If you can't trust your husband then you don't have a good relationship. What are you trying to save?

It's not worth it to live guessing, spying, not trusting the person you love. How long do you think you can live that way?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Knowing a bit more about his behavior might help us come up with some ideas.

Do you think whatever he's doing is being done only via text and/or email? 

Do you think he might be speaking to whomever this is on his cell phone?

Is he staying home during this pandemic, or does he still go to work?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

monpetitchou said:


> Considering it strongly. Kind of waiting anyway until we settle back into a more normal routine post quarantine.


line it up now! When the quarantine time is lifted he will be out there pretty quickly doing what he wants to do... probably the best time for any spouse to find out about a cheater they are married to.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

So, does he tend to use his phones in the same spot in the house? If so, get some mini-cams and set them up where it may be able to record his PIN (unless he is using a fingerprint unlock).


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## monpetitchou (Apr 20, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> I have a husband who has a phone. We have computers and tablets, they are locked, but we both have the same passwords. I have access to all electronics, and all accounts.
> 
> Trust is very important in a relationship. If you can't trust your husband then you don't have a good relationship. What are you trying to save?
> 
> It's not worth it to live guessing, spying, not trusting the person you love. How long do you think you can live that way?


Clearly, we don’t have a good relationship anymore. Things hit a rough parch but I didn’t realize he might stoop this low.


EleGirl said:


> Knowing a bit more about his behavior might help us come up with some ideas.
> 
> Do you think whatever he's doing is being done only via text and/or email?
> 
> ...


The messages in question were sent within Discord and Twitter DMs. Not necessarily texting or even email, but not certain.

he is staying home. He was on a leave of absence from work prior to pandemic (for about 6 months) and still is. He shares childcare duties with my family. A few months ago he basically told me he was struggling with being a stay at home parent, he wanted to turn duties over to my mom completely so he could focus on his next job steps


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## monpetitchou (Apr 20, 2020)

alte Dame said:


> The common wisdom is to keep mum until you've had time to do as much sleuthing as you can. My experience here is that's usually true, although my own nature would have me sitting him down and directly telling him that he's acting shady and that I want the truth.
> 
> That being said, I would suggest starting with the phone bill, bank account statements, CC statements. See if you can find some patterns. If you can get onto a computer that he uses but doesn't have locked down, you can install a keylogger.
> 
> ...


Do you recommend a particular search tool?


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

My only comment is that their are many devices to help you in your surveillance, but there's only one opportunity to confront and stay in control. Devices are best utilized when the cheater is unsuspecting. Keep him that way. Stay calm, patient, cordial and normal. Success here will provide you with your biggest payoff.

The length and anguish of an affair can be shortened by weeks or months depending on how well you uncover, confront, conceal your sources, and reveal your captured content to his affair partner's spouse, employment or whomever you identify has the capacity to change the lives of his partner. You're in control. Keep it that way.


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## monpetitchou (Apr 20, 2020)

jlg07 said:


> So, does he tend to use his phones in the same spot in the house? If so, get some mini-cams and set them up where it may be able to record his PIN (unless he is using a fingerprint unlock).


Was thinking about this too. Haven’t quite found the one yet that I think is discreet enough


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## monpetitchou (Apr 20, 2020)

colingrant said:


> My only comment is that their are many devices to help you in your surveillance, but there's only one opportunity to confront and stay in control. Devices are best utilized when the cheater is unsuspecting. Keep him that way. Stay calm, patient, cordial and normal. Success here will provide you with your biggest payoff.
> 
> The length and anguish of an affair can be shortened by weeks or months depending on how well you uncover, confront, conceal your sources, and reveal your captured content to his affair partner's spouse, employment or whomever you identify has the capacity to change the lives of his partner. You're in control. Keep it that way.


You are so right. Trying to remember this and fake a cool attitude for the time being.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

monpetitchou said:


> he is staying home. He was on a leave of absence from work prior to pandemic (for about 6 months) and still is. He shares childcare duties with my family. A few months ago he basically told me he was struggling with being a stay at home parent, he wanted to turn duties over to my mom completely so he could focus on his next job steps


It sounds like you work full time. Is that right? Are you going to work or are you at home now?

If he share childcare with your family, it sounds like he has some free time with no children around when you are at work? If this is correct, about how many hours a week is he on his own?

Does he have his own car? Does he go out by himself? If so about how often every week?

(I'm asking questions to come up with things you can do.)

Have you checked his phone bill to see if he's in contact with any one number quite a bit? How about the checking account and/or credit cards to see if he's spending money that could be him spending on seeing someone else?


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## monpetitchou (Apr 20, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> It sounds like you work full time. Is that right? Are you going to work or are you at home now?
> 
> If he share childcare with your family, it sounds like he has some free time with no children around when you are at work? If this is correct, about how many hours a week is he on his own?
> 
> ...


That is correct, he had lots of time right before we went on lockdown completely to himself. I’d say from about 11am- 6 pm when I got home from work on an average day. 

Yes, he has his own car, but he uses mine fairly often.

I cant do much with bank statements/phone bills, we were going to combine into a family plan years ago and never got around to it, no real reason or resistance on his part It just didn’t work out to be a better deal $ wise. We’ve always had separate phone plans and separate bank accounts.

yes, I am still working full time.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

monpetitchou said:


> That is correct, he had lots of time right before we went on lockdown completely to himself. I’d say from about 11am- 6 pm when I got home from work on an average day.
> 
> Yes, he has his own car, but he uses mine fairly often.
> 
> ...


Does he keep his bank statements and other financial paperwork at home? If so can you get it and look through it? You might find something that will add to the info you have.

The way I found out that my ex was cheating was I found a letter from his AP in his home office trash. I was not looking for anything. It just fell on the floor when I was bagging to trash to take it out. After that I kept searching his trash and found quite a bit of stuff that was helped me put the picture together. 

A few years ago when one of my brothers was getting a divorce, I suggested that he search the trash. What he found receipts from grocery stores, Target, etc. She was taking out about $60 in cash with each purchase. She was handling their finances so I suggested that he search through all the papers. He did that and found years of receipts. I did some accounting for him and found that over the years she had withdrawn thousands of dollars. And he found the account where she was hiding the money.

Going back to my situation, I started searching his car. While he was taking a shower or sleeping, I snuck his keys and searched his car several times. I found receipts from his dates to dinner, the movies, and more; condoms; one woman's under pants under the front seat. In the compartment where tire changing tools are store he was hiding more receipts, letters, etc. I also found the key to a secret PO Box that he had. 

I looked through the papers on his desk (he was a medical student). He was writing little love poems tucked in his books and note books. Further, I found her phone number. And yea, I called her pretending to be someone else and boy did she talk up a storm and told me all about her boyfriend (my husband).

Since your husband is home a lot this one might help you. A woman I know was pretty sure that her husband was cheating. They worked different shifts sometimes so he was home alone through part of some days. So she took a VAR and put adhesive backed Velcro on it and attached to up under their bed. So he never saw it. Well.. she got him talking to his AP on his cell phone. Then a couple of days later, she not only go him on the phone but the AP came for and their entire roll in the hay was recorded.  

A lot of cheaters use their car as a private phone booth. Some have secured a VAR up under the front seat of the car. The VAR recorded their BS's side of phone conversations with their AP. And sometimes the VAR recorded the BS & AP's conversation because they were in the same car. 

Of course when recording things, you need to know the recording laws where you live. Are the laws one party or two party?

Hiding a GPS on his car would tell you where he is driving to.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

monpetitchou said:


> Hi, New here. I’ve combed the threads on evidence gathering and I can’t enact most of them because my husband guards his devices like they contain the world’s secrets. All iOS devices- iPhone, iPad, and password locked. I saw sketchy but kind of vague messages and tried to confront him and got nowhere. The ultra defensiveness and secrecy is telling me most of what I need to know, but I still really want to know and see for myself what’s going on. Anything I’m not thinking of beside VAR, gps tracker? The frustrating thing is these devices hold all the answers, I’m sure of it.


If you can't figure out high tech ways of proving he is or is not cheating, why not go low tech? Low tech ways to check if your spouse is cheating 

Sometimes in the world of being deceiving, the high tech people are so good with their devices and hiding electronically that they forget good old-fashioned paper trails. ...


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

Some ideas for inside home.
If you have any old cell phones that wouldn’t look suspicious you can download apps to turn them into surveillance cameras. Some of the apps are really detailed.
Jeeves was a decent app.

Can also buy clocks with cameras, wall plug phone chargers, light bulbs, smoke alarms, picture frames,

A guy I know uses an old celll phone and clock radio camera to catch a former roommate coming into to his home stealing several hundred $ from his room.
Footage was great person never suspected anything and it got the person charged.

Some ideas here.









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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

Some of the apps for using old cellphones even have motion activation and will alert you to movement so you can zoom in if you want. 
He zoomed in on the theif very well.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

While home cams and the like may get you an answer, just imagine what will happen if they are discovered. Plus, the odds of success here are low. You'd have to set up a camera in the exact right spot, so he wouldn't notice, and then he'd have to sit in the right spot, type in his password. Then, he'd have to leave that same device somewhere unattended, and you'd have to hurry up and grab it and type in the password. Then you'd have to hope his apps are open, pick the right one, and see messages. Not a great plan. The PI is a good plan if he could actually leave the house, but he can't. And that would really only work if he is having a physical affair. This might just be sexting messages/fantasy, as he is bored being home.

I'd take a completely different approach. If your gut is so strong that he is cheating, just lay low for awhile, and watch him. These things always accelerate. It's a drug, and he will get addicted. He will spend more and more time in corners of the house on his devices. He'll get more distant. Be a cat and pounce at the right moment. Make a game out of it. 

Of course, if you get too torn up and just can't take it anymore, just tell him you think he's cheating, and the only way you'll trust he isn't is if he hands over all his devices and gives you the passwords to all his apps. Like, right that second. And YOU get to open the apps/devices. Not him. No chance to delete anything. Likely he kept some messages if he's cheating. They are like souvenirs..


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I think if the relationship is so far gone that you're setting up hidden spy cams, then there's nothing there to gain by actually catching them cheating. It's already over, so just have it be over.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I suggest a bit of a bluff when you finally confront, presuming you do.
My ex was cheating and denied everything. I finally snooped better and got some info, scant, but some.

I put a line in the sand, you either fess up who you are doing this with or I alert your whole family and mine. I did not know his name at that point, so if I flinched at all, she would know it.

She believed my bluff and fessed up his name. And started to trickle out the length of time she cheated. It took her about a month to get it out.

I didn't have to bug the house, the car, follow her anywhere.

Sometimes poking the guilt works.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

michzz said:


> I suggest a bit of a bluff when you finally confront, presuming you do.
> My ex was cheating and denied everything. I finally snooped better and got some info, scant, but some.
> 
> I put a line in the sand, you either fess up who you are doing this with or I alert your whole family and mine. I did not know his name at that point, so if I flinched at all, she would know it.
> ...


Agree, but to your point you need to follow through and not flinch.

Don't debate it, argue it, provide evidence for anything - because all of that will just alert them to what you actually know, so they can tailor a lie to turn it all around on you.

You also need to not flinch when they label you paranoid, controlling, insane, or whatever.

"I know what you've been up to and with who. You can tell me now and we can discuss it, or you can continue to lie and this will all get much, much worse." And then just stand there and say nothing. Be prepared for a nuclear explosion, accusations, or just silence. Let them talk for a minute, then walk away. Totally ignore them from that point out until they talk, just go act like your relationship is over... because it probably is.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

michzz said:


> I suggest a bit of a bluff when you finally confront, presuming you do.
> My ex was cheating and denied everything. I finally snooped better and got some info, scant, but some.
> 
> I put a line in the sand, you either fess up who you are doing this with or I alert your whole family and mine. I did not know his name at that point, so if I flinched at all, she would know it.
> ...





Marduk said:


> Agree, but to your point you need to follow through and not flinch.
> 
> Don't debate it, argue it, provide evidence for anything - because all of that will just alert them to what you actually know, so they can tailor a lie to turn it all around on you.
> 
> ...


Exactly! You cannot stand there muttering more rambling weakness. 

Make your case, then shut up.

You'll get your information or fury and denial.

Either way, you'll know what to do.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

michzz said:


> Exactly! You cannot stand there muttering more rambling weakness.
> 
> Make your case, then shut up.
> 
> ...


My advice is to ignore their words unless they are confessing. Even then, they'll usually confess the absolute minimum amount that they think you'll buy. In that case, write down everything they say.

But usually you won't get an immediate confession. You'll get anger, accusations, histrionics, or silence. In those cases, instead of reacting to their words, just watch their body language. The body rarely lies.

Just like a simple "let me see your phone" and gauging their physical response will likely tell you everything you need to know.


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

monpetitchou said:


> I saw sketchy but kind of vague messages and tried to confront him and got nowhere. The ultra defensiveness and secrecy is telling me most of what I need to know.


Elaborate on the sketchy but kind of vague messages and what he said when you confronted.

Affairs occur in places. Some are only digital, so the affairs would be held somewhere, or lofted away in the ether like yelling out of car window while you drive. Things can be physical digitally, dirty talk over the phone, cybering. But to be in person, the cheaters need a physical space as well as time to do it. And no matter what, the affair partners are both real physical people, so they have to live somewhere, work somewhere, with people around them who are aware of the surroundings.

Very few affairs want to remain in digital spaces. They want to meet.

Most affairs remain secret until the betrayed get a suspicion. Sometimes it's an accident, like a message that flashes on the cheater's phone that you happen to see, despite the cheater's usual guardedness.

The cheaters' greatest tips of keeping it secret is the unsuspecting betrayeds' trust. Frequently blind trust. Once the betrayed gets a bit of a clue, the betrayed is alert of unusual or suspicious behaviors, and it's usually a day, a week, a month or two tops, just a matter of time, that the cheater makes a mistake or is just unlucky, and the betrayed catches them.

At heart, cheating is a form of wrongdoing. Investigating wrongdoers is nothing new. There is a long history of tips and tricks. A lot of that involves putting the puzzle pieces together. A lot of little pieces. There is a level of knowledge and experience. People who investigate for a living usually specialize. Homicide detectives have a different knowledge and experience base than a narcotics detective. You have here a group with a base of knowledge and experience with infidelity. The more info you can provide, the more the detectives will be able to crack the case.

Cheaters are predictable. The privacy/secrecy of the phone is second only to the privacy/secrecy of the automobile. That's why GPSs and VARs are so successful. Likewise any place/time the cheater has out of the view of witnesses. Strangers usually don't matter, it would be the betrayed spouse, children, relatives, friends.

A good portion of investigating involves interviewing and later, interrogating. Sometimes when interviewing it's best to ask a question, then shut up and listen. Be comfortable with not responding, just being silent, wait 5-10 seconds and let him keep talking. The more he talks, the more he can incriminate himself. Wrongdoers are risk-takers, but they are not necessarily any smarter than anyone else. It requires a great deal of memory to keep track of the real facts as well as the lies, too. After some time, they forget.

Negotiating is another skill. When you are negotiating, very frequently, the one who cares less wins. And almost always the cheater cares less. You love them more than they love you. Very easily, just a matter of saying the words, you can tell him, "Either you open up your phone, and let me see all of your messages right this minute, or I am leaving you." Usually a cheater will put you to the test. Ultimatums rarely work because the cheater is willing to risk it, and the cheater believes that later on the betrayed spouse will back down and not follow through. "Who gives up a marriage because the spouse won't show the phone?" a betrayed spouse asks, incredulous that someone would even consider that. But think about the other side, too. "Who gives up the marriage over not handing over the phone?" The cheater, that's who.

So what happens? You search and search and eventually you catch him. He lies, he only admits what you actually can prove, and frequently he just lays low for a week or two or three and then go back to his old cheating ways. It's like a little dance. Why are cheaters so insincere, ungenuine, and unauthentic? Why would a cheater want to stay married, lie, hide, guard, break their vows, betray not only their spouses, but their children, their parents, their friends, everyone they lie to about? I really believe if you accuse them, so they are aware you are aware, and they still continue the affair, that is a whole different level. Think about it, if he really cared, and you confronted, wouldn't he say to himself, "wow, she's onto me, I better quit this shady stuff or she will leave me, and I love her so much, I would feel terrible. This affair isn't worth risking my wife and family. It never was, but I wasn't thinking, I thought I was too smart to get caught, but apparently I wasn't. I better stop."? But what does he actually do? Keep cheating, keep being shady.

Anyway, post more details and I'm pretty sure these people will find the answers.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

And no way he gets out of taking care of the kids when he isn’t working!

is he generally a guy who isn’t responsible? Or does he take making money for the family seriously?


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## dcFlorida (Sep 14, 2014)

first question is... Is the marriage too far gone to be repaired? If it is, go to an attorney IMMEDIATELY. Get the best money can buy. If the person is a good attorney, they will ask you the same question... Are you ready for a divorce? If you are NOT, then basically suck it up and stay quiet. If the marriage is too far gone, then ask the attorney WHAT they need for an effective case. Do not listen to anyone else. Remember, we are talking asset split, alimony, child support, custody, visitation, etc. Do not talk to anybody or reveal your cards. Play a happy spouse. Do your best to be the BEST client. Expect a war. the minute your partner expects a legal filing, they will hit you with everything they have. (your love will turn into a monster). My story - I am a father of 2 kids. I had no asset split, no alimony, full custody, no unsupervised visitation (plus parenting class, etc), aand, the ex wife owes me 5 yrs of child support (insurance policy in case she tries to become relevant). In other words, I did my homework and the ex is fully out of our lives.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

monpetitchou said:


> That is correct, he had lots of time right before we went on lockdown completely to himself. I’d say from about 11am- 6 pm when I got home from work on an average day.
> 
> Yes, he has his own car, but he uses mine fairly often.
> 
> ...


In a way it might be good if you keep finances separate. It sounds like you are the main breadwinner.

Does he go off to a separate place in the house to talk on his phone? If so put a recorder there, even hide your own phone there with audio on to see if it picks up anything.

once out of quarantine, VAR the car he uses (get him to use yours one day and VAR it), that is the best way to pick up on his activities.


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