# Is there redemption for WS?



## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

Once someone cheats can they ever be described as faithful, virtuous, chaste, etc.?

Is it like virginity once lost is lost forever?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> Is it like virginity once lost is lost forever?


I'm going to say no. Or rather, yes to the thread title. At any point in time many a former cheater can be described as faithful.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

It is hard. But you can reclaim your honor.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> Once someone cheats can they ever be described as faithful, virtuous, chaste, etc.?
> 
> Is it like virginity once lost is lost forever?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is sounding a little too Mormon to me!

Yeah. People can get better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Someone who had weak principles to begin with is unlikely to change. Kindness is not an easily acquired trait. But people can change if they are motivated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> =
> I am faithful...I lead a virtuous life...I have sexual intercourse every day so I am not chaste.


If its only with your husband, you are chaste.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I am faithful...I lead a virtuous life...I have sexual intercourse every day so I am not chaste.


If its an everyday thing, sounds like you get chaste a lot. Or maybe you do your share of chasting and you're old man is the one that's chaste.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> If its an everyday thing, sounds like you get chaste a lot. Or maybe you do your share of chasting and you're old man is the one that's chaste.


LOL!!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Mr. JohnAdams: What's your secret?


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

Not to ruin a perfectly humorous thread...but I read something recently that described WS in R as "currently faithful". This is something I have struggled with expressing and I hate connecting it with addiction, but that makes it sound much like being an alcoholic. I may be currently sober but have not always been that way and could fall off the wagon any time (but I'm not an alcoholic).

So...I am currently faithful. it has been 3 years, 9 months, and several days since I last cheated. My wife is currently not faithful and hasn't been faithful for some time. She doesn't admit she is a cheater and it is destroying her. What a downer this post turned into.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> chaste [cheyst] Show IPA
> adjective, chast·er, chast·est.
> 1.
> refraining from sexual intercourse that is regarded as contrary to morality or religion; virtuous.
> ...


#3 is something somebody made up. Same thing for the use of celibate (the unmarried state) to equate to sexless. Yeah, I know that's been in use for at least 30 years that way, but it's still wrong.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I think people can change. I somewhat feel like I have to believe that in order to believe that there is hope for humanity, I suppose...


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> Once someone cheats can they ever be described as faithful, virtuous, chaste, etc.?
> 
> Is it like virginity once lost is lost forever?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Depends on who you talk to. To me, once a cheater always a cheater and I'm sure as hell not going to take a chance on someone I know that has cheated.

Does that guarantee I won't be cheated on in the future? No, with the exception that I am not planning on any commitments.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to jump in a viper pit on the off chance one of them doesn't bite me.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

illwill said:


> It is hard. But you can reclaim your honor.


Well I know that people can reconcile and maybe that in itself is regaining honor.

But if that isn't one of the criteria for reclaiming honor, then it begs the question, when someone goes behind their spouses back and spreads her legs for another man, or the husband sticks his d!ck in another woman, how do you reclaim "honor"?


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> In the truest sense of the word... you cannot be redeemed *unless someone else pays the price*.


And if anyone can claim to be redeemed here, its you for sure.

But I'm curious how it works with the bolded part above?


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Philat said:


> Mr. JohnAdams: What's your secret?


*Probably this:*


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> If its only with your husband, you are chaste.


Mrs Adams is chased by Mr Adams. She lets him catch her.


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

vellocet said:


> how do you reclaim "honor"?


If we take past societies and cultures into account then the only way to regain such honor is by a quest, journey, or trial. It usually involved some great personal sacrifice to show to the people at large that they have done what is needed to regain their honor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Mrs. JA and I were talking about this in the Hot Tub tonight with a glass of wine. This is probably a bad analogy, but, what the heck.

We own horses and have gone through several horses over the years. You get a horse, discover it's problems, get rid of it and get another. You now have a new set of problems. You get rid of this horse and get a new one. The cycle continues. We finally bought a couple of horses we can live with. One broke Mrs. Adams leg about 20 years ago. We still own that horse. It has it's problems, but she is a good horse. I could have divorced Mrs. JA years ago and remarried someone else's problems. You may think you married someone virtuous, but you really do not know. You probably married someone else's problem.

I know adultery is more like the horse trampled you to death, but, you get the idea. We had something great, she broke my leg, we fixed it the best we could. I still limp some. But, I still love that mare


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

vellocet said:


> *Probably this:*


I guess my secret is out. Did Mrs. JA post that picture of my ****. You have to have something working for you


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> I guess my secret is out. Did Mrs. JA post that picture of my ****. You have to have something working for you


You are an inspiration in more ways than one, JA....


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

People fvck up,I know people who have made a terrible choice and caused others a great deal
of pain with their choice,they are disgusted with what they did and they strive for years
To right the terrible wrong they did. 
Redemption is very possible,I believe most people deserve a second chance,it does depend on
what kind of person they are though and the steps they took to better themselves
and make amends to the ones they hurt.
Mrs.JA,EI and pidge are a few of the few former WS's I've seen here on Tams who are 
worth that second chance.
They come on here and risk being treated like crap to warn others not to make the same choice they did.
I have not seen them try to justify once what thay did.
A remorseful former WS can be a valuable asset.
I have a feeling time travel will be invented or discovered by a WS one of these days!

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

What about born again-virgins-(LOL)


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

lovelyblue said:


> What about born again-virgins-(LOL)


Yep,that can travel back and back and back and back...........

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

calvin said:


> People fvck up,I know people who have made a terrible choice and caused others a great deal
> of pain with their choice,they are disgusted with what they did and they strive for years
> To right the terrible wrong they did.
> Redemption is very possible,I believe most people deserve a second chance,it does depend on
> ...


Second chances are never deserved. No one is obligated to give it. They are always a mercy from the offended. And a leap of faith. 

Only after time can the offender prove they deserved a second chance after all.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

illwill said:


> Second chances are never deserved. No one is obligated to give it. They are always a mercy from the offended. And a leap of faith.
> 
> Only after time can the offender prove they deserved a second chance after all.


I agree. A second chance is not deserved or owed to the offender. It is a leap of faith.

When you marry and take your vows you have complete trust that those vows will be kept. When the vows are broke you are under no obligation to give a second chance.

It can take years after broken vows to really see if your second chance was a good choice and deserved. I understand those who did not want to take the risk of giving a second chance.

It paid off in my case. I am glad I gave that second chance. My wife has proved she deserved a second chance.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

No a second chance is not automatic,I didn't have blind trust going into R,I knew it was a 
gamble for me but I needed concrete proof from my wife day one by her action,
her going to MC and other ways to show me she was worth the chance.
She still has to prove this everyday to me,though not like she used to,I also had to be a little
bit vunerable,we both need a little breathing room.
Also she has no good memories about the A,none.
It takes time,a lot of time.
The initial agreement to R was the hardest.
No regrets now from me.
I suppose there is always a chance but I bet I'd get struck by lighting and win the
lottery in the same day before that would ever happen again.
I had a gut feeling then and I have a gut feeling now about how things are going
and what will be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Curiously, did you have a gut feeling she would be faithful on your wedding day?

I apologize if that is a offensive question. But its a obvious one.


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## Mrs_Mathias (Nov 19, 2012)

I don't think there is redemption. I'd like to believe that someday my life will be more than the worst decisions I made in it, but I don't know how or if that happens. In my mind, to be redeemed, I would have to do something more positive for my husband than the heap of negative things I've done. And there is no action that outweighs my choice to have an affair. I have to hope that years of tiny actions will one day put me in the black again. But what kind of person hopes their spouse is willing and able to survive the negative balance long enough for it to matter? 

Some days, I feel like the desire to reconcile is just the pinnacle of my own cake-eating selfishness. So how can there be redemption found in that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I don't think there is redemption. I'd like to believe that someday my life will be more than the worst decisions I made in it, but I don't know how or if that happens. In my mind, to be redeemed, I would have to do something more positive for my husband than the heap of negative things I've done. And there is no action that outweighs my choice to have an affair. I have to hope that years of tiny actions will one day put me in the black again. But what kind of person hopes their spouse is willing and able to survive the negative balance long enough for it to matter?
> 
> Some days, I feel like the desire to reconcile is just the pinnacle of my own cake-eating selfishness. So how can there be redemption found in that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course, there are two versions of redemption after infidelity, aren't there. 1. redemption in the opinion of the BS 2 Redemption in the mid of the WS. Obviously these are, quite frequently, not the same thing.
MM, in your case, I would ask myself this question. Am I doing it , primarily for me, or am I doing it for him? There is your answer.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

In my situation, even though we are not together, I feel that Sweetie has fully regained her honor and good name. Sweetie, on the other hand , still feels a lot of guilt. and shame.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I don't think there is redemption. I'd like to believe that someday my life will be more than the worst decisions I made in it, but I don't know how or if that happens. In my mind, to be redeemed, I would have to do something more positive for my husband than the heap of negative things I've done. And there is no action that outweighs my choice to have an affair. I have to hope that years of tiny actions will one day put me in the black again. But what kind of person hopes their spouse is willing and able to survive the negative balance long enough for it to matter?
> 
> Some days, I feel like the desire to reconcile is just the pinnacle of my own cake-eating selfishness. So how can there be redemption found in that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mrs. Mathias, I think you can take the scarlet letter off your chest now.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *My Mrs Mathias*
> I don't think there is redemption. I'd like to believe that someday my life will be more than the worst decisions I made in it, but I don't know how or if that happens. *In my mind, to be redeemed, I would have to do something more positive for my husband than the heap of negative things I've done. And there is no action that outweighs my choice to have an affair*. I have to hope that years of tiny actions will one day put me in the black again. But what kind of person hopes their spouse is willing and able to survive the negative balance long enough for it to matter?
> 
> Some days, I feel like the desire to reconcile is just the pinnacle of my own cake-eating selfishness. So how can there be redemption found in that?



Mrs. Mathias, with your criteria for redemption I do not believe that you will ever get redemption. There is not any action that I can think of that would be more positive to your husband that it would make him owe you forgiveness for the betrayal. *You are looking for you to EARN forgiveness. Forgiveness is a gift and a gift if you earn it is not a gift it is owed.*



> *Mr. Adams said*
> A second chance is not deserved or owed to the offender. It is a leap of faith.





> *Mrs. Adams said*
> In terms of the price to be paid for what I did to my husband... I suppose you could say he paid the price


Mrs. Adams fully realizes that Mr. Adams paid a price and nothing she could do would pay for it and have Mr. Adams owe her a second chance.



> *Mr. Adams said*
> I still limp some. But, I still love that mare


In other words what Mrs. Adams did to Mr. Adams made him limp but his love is more powerful than the hurt. In our circle we also use the word grace to supplement love. Grace is getting something that you do not deserve.

I have head the saying of:

*Mercy is not getting everything you deserve
Grace is getting what you do not deserve*

Mrs. Mathias, Redemption from God is always available you just have to believe it and accept the gift
Redemption from your husband will take your husband adopting the love, grace, and gift that Mr. Adams gave.

*Even if your husband does not give you that gift you are still a valuable woman because you are remorseful for your actions and have stayed faithful even though you are suffering.*


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> Once someone cheats can they ever be described as faithful, virtuous, chaste, etc.?


No.



> Is it like virginity once lost is lost forever?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

illwill said:


> Curiously, did you have a gut feeling she would be faithful on your wedding day?
> 
> I apologize if that is a offensive question. But its a obvious one.


 No need to apologize,I guess I just figured we'd both would always be faithful,to me that's the
way it goes right? Boy was I wrong.
I do have that feeling now,POS was a con man and sometimes I still can't believe she feel
for the cheap generic compliments from the semi-homeless fvck.
I still doubt I could R if it had went physical but I'll never know.
If it ever did happen again it would'nt almost kill me like it did,I'd have no problem
walking away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

calvin said:


> No need to apologize,I guess I just figured we'd both would always be faithful,to me that's the
> way it goes right? Boy was I wrong.
> I do have that feeling now,POS was a con man and sometimes I still can't believe she feel
> for the cheap generic compliments from the semi-homeless fvck.
> ...


Thanks for answering. Its funny how i never assumed my wife would never cheat. I hoped she would not. We worked to keep our marriage fresh. I told her cheating was my only dealbreaker. And she did it anyway. You never know.

Glad things worked out for you two.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I'd like to believe that someday my life will be more than the worst decisions I made in it, but I don't know how or if that happens.


MrsM, you'll know that's happened when you are not defined in MrM's mind and heart by these decisions. It's hard to tell by his posts whether this has happened yet, but it seemed to be heading in the right direction when last I saw (I haven't seen any posts by MrM in a while).


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

illwill said:


> Curiously, did you have a gut feeling she would be faithful on your wedding day?


I will also answer this one. There was not a question in my mind when we got married that we would be faithful to each other for the rest of our lives. I would have never married a person that I had even a slight doubt that they may some day cheat. I thought long and hard before getting married, this is for life. This is a very strong guiding principle for me. So, to have this basic principle broken completely shatters your life.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

Cloaked said:


> Once someone cheats can they ever be described as faithful, virtuous, chaste, etc.?
> 
> Is it like virginity once lost is lost forever?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I honestly think you've raised two different questions here. Is there redemption? There's certainly the potential for redemption, for those who are truly penitent. 

But their chastity is forever changed. When you reveal yourself to be that type of person, you are that type of person forever. You have that potential. When it comes to this kind of thing there are only two types of people- the ones who cheat and the ones who don't. If you cheat, you can never say you didn't cheat.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> I will also answer this one. There was not a question in my mind when we got married that we would be faithful to each other for the rest of our lives. I would have never married a person that I had even a slight doubt that they may some day cheat. I thought long and hard before getting married, this is for life. This is a very strong guiding principle for me. So, to have this basic principle broken completely shatters your life.


And I'll go out on a limb and hazard a guess that Mrs JA felt the same way. This is why I think that anyone, even those who can honestly say that they would never cheat, ultimately can.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

DarkHoly said:


> I honestly think you've raised two different questions here. Is there redemption? There's certainly the potential for redemption, for those who are truly penitent.
> 
> But their chastity is forever changed. When you reveal yourself to be that type of person, you are that type of person forever. You have that potential. *When it comes to this kind of thing there are only two types of people- the ones who cheat and the ones who don't. * If you cheat, you can never say you didn't cheat.


I think it's more accurate to say "ones who have cheated and ones who haven't." But in my mind those who haven't could. I also respectfully disagree that someone who has cheated is "that type of person" forever. He/she will always be someone who has cheated, but not necessarily a cheating "type" of person.


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## Mrs_Mathias (Nov 19, 2012)

I don't think forgiveness is something that can be owed, as Mr. Blunt describes. And I think forgiveness is different than redemption. Per Mrs. JA's definition, the primary characteristic of redemption is atonement, which is to make reparations or amends for. So logically, one cannot be redeemed until they have made amends. But that's all semantics.

But essentially for me, redemption can only come if someday I am more of an asset than a liability in my husband's eyes. I want to be someone worth being with in his view because I am a loving, caring partner, because he enjoys my company and thoughts, and not because I am the mother of his children or it's financially more convenient. I hope he can find peace in choosing me, instead of being consumed by the "should haves", and if I'm far luckier than I can currently picture, I hope he can take pleasure again in having a relationship with me. That's the only kind of redemption I can understand. One where I can prove that he is what matters to me most, and he can know that is true and find value and happiness in it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I hope he can find peace in choosing me, instead of being *consumed by the "should haves", *and if I'm far luckier than I can currently picture, I hope he can take pleasure again in having a relationship with me. That's the only kind of redemption I can understand. One where I can prove that he is what matters to me most, and he can know that is true and find value and happiness in it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This (the bolded) is probably the most difficult thing for a man to get over. I still wrestle with this from time to time. You are very sorry and remorseful. You are working hard to demonstrate to your husband your love. We are all different in what we need and what finally puts over the hump. We, the BS, never really get over it. But, the BS who want to R finally realized that the relationship is the most important thing to them. He will get there. It took me 30 years to reach that point. I pray it will not take anywhere that long in your case. Tools such as TAM, etc were not available to Mrs. JA and I. I think I would have healed much faster if I had these tools available to me.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Cloaked said:


> If we take past societies and cultures into account then the only way to regain such honor is by a quest, journey, or trial. It usually involved some great personal sacrifice to show to the people at large that they have done what is needed to regain their honor.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can go along with that, and I believe the marriages that recovered the WS went through the "trials" in the marriage and did so without much complaint.

I've seen some WS's say they won't put up with "sufferering the consequences" for too long. Those are the ones that will not reclaim any honor and didn't have any to begin with.


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

Redemption is not like candy on a trick-or-treat day. It has to be earned.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Redemption is a religious construct, between you and your maker.

I gave my ex-wife an undeserved second chance, not knowing that her so-called one-time "mistake" was really a many-year full-blown affair.

She squandered that gift and used my good nature to have a material life she never would have had, to maintain a good reputation she didn't earn, and to expose me to what she was doing.

If she is to be redeemed, it certainly will not be by me. She lives in shame 1500 mile away from family, including her children, and far from friends who might ask her why she screwed up so badly.

Her attitude towards me, her vows, even basic decency and honesty is what prevents her from redemption in this life.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Philat said:


> This is why I think that anyone, even those who can honestly say that they would never cheat, ultimately can.


I cannot disagree more with this statement. I do think that non cheaters are the minority, but we are out there. I would never cheat on my family. Notice I said family, not wife.

The thought of being so selfish to put my family at risk is horrible to me. The thought of one day having to explain to my daughter why i cheated on them would kill me. I would never put myself in that position.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I have spent a lifetime being the kind of wife he deserves.


I'm only 3 months out from dday. I dont know how I will feel years from now and I dont know how long it will take before I have a day where I dont imagine her having sex with someone else.

That being said, 30 years from now, if my wife can say this exact same thing, then thats all I could ask and would make all this worth going through.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

johnAdams said:


> This (the bolded) is probably the most difficult thing for a man to get over. I still wrestle with this from time to time. You are very sorry and remorseful. You are working hard to demonstrate to your husband your love. We are all different in what we need and what finally puts over the hump. We, the BS, never really get over it. But, the BS who want to R finally realized that the relationship is the most important thing to them. He will get there. It took me 30 years to reach that point. I pray it will not take anywhere that long in your case. Tools such as TAM, etc were not available to Mrs. JA and I. I think I would have healed much faster if I had these tools available to me.


You are merciful and compassionate in a way I can't even fathom.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Philat said:


> This is why I think that anyone, even those who can honestly say that they would never cheat, ultimately can.


Well ultimately I COULD stab someone 25 times and kill them.

But it will never happen, because that's the difference between me and a murderous thug.

Just like that is the difference between me and a cheater.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Philat said:


> This is why I think that anyone, even those who can honestly say that they would never cheat, ultimately can.


No matter how many different ways you type this, it's still wrong, and offensive.

With that logic (it's illogical, actually), anyone "can" do anything. It's an asinine assertion.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Well ultimately I COULD stab someone 25 times and kill them.
> 
> But it will never happen, because that's the difference between me and a murderous thug.
> 
> Just like that is the difference between me and a cheater.


Exactly.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I don't think forgiveness is something that can be owed, as Mr. Blunt describes. And I think forgiveness is different than redemption. Per Mrs. JA's definition, the primary characteristic of redemption is atonement, which is to make reparations or amends for. So logically, one cannot be redeemed until they have made amends. But that's all semantics.
> 
> But essentially for me, redemption can only come if someday I am more of an asset than a liability in my husband's eyes. I want to be someone worth being with in his view because I am a loving, caring partner, because he enjoys my company and thoughts, and not because I am the mother of his children or it's financially more convenient. I hope he can find peace in choosing me, instead of being consumed by the "should haves", and if I'm far luckier than I can currently picture, I hope he can take pleasure again in having a relationship with me. That's the only kind of redemption I can understand. One where I can prove that he is what matters to me most, and he can know that is true and find value and happiness in it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


MM, what these posters (including me)are saying is irrelevant. The only relevant factors in your"redemption" are the opinions of your husband and yourself. Everything else is chopped liver.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

Just playing devil's advocate here... 

Does it really matter to anyone other than the BS how the WS is perceived? Isn't all of this discretionary based on the perception of the one that will make the decision whether or not to forgive, and open themselves up for possible future hurt by attempting R?


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Pepper123 said:


> Just playing devil's advocate here...
> 
> Does it really matter to anyone other than the BS how the WS is perceived? Isn't all of this discretionary based on the perception of the one that will make the decision whether or not to forgive, and open themselves up for possible future hurt by attempting R?


Probably.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Because betrayed spouses usually cannot trust their emotions, and judgments, they do need external unbiased opinions. Or else we would not be here having this conversation.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

illwill said:


> Because betrayed spouses usually cannot trust their emotions, and judgments, they do need external unbiased opinions. Or else we would not be here having this conversation.


 Yep,I talked to a few close friends to get their opinios,they thought about it and
since CSS is like a sister to them and they knew her a long time they also felt the R route
was worth a shot,even if I would have come out way ahead and that was according to
CSS's lawyer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Once someone cheats can they ever be described as faithful, virtuous, chaste, etc.?


*Has Always been Faithful? NO
Faithful for years or decades?	yes*


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Mrs Mathias*
> I don't think forgiveness is something that can be owed, as Mr. Blunt describes. And *I think forgiveness is different than redemption.* Per Mrs. JA's definition, the primary characteristic of redemption is atonement, which is to make reparations or amends for.
> 
> But essentially for me, redemption can only come if someday I am more of an asset than a liability in my husband's eyes.* I want to be someone worth being with in his view because I am a loving, caring partner, because he enjoys my company and thoughts.[/*QUOTE]
> ...


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