# Adviced needed!



## TC680

Hi all,
i just joined this forum to see if I could get some advice. Here's my story....last year my husband started workng alongside a young woman, who came to do a work placement from Uni., she was over half his age. They began a friendship which at the start I found ok but as the time went on I began to notice how my husband stopped having time for me. He used to come home from work and tell me about his day, who he'd met what his day was like but that all stopped. He constantly made reference to her nad how much they had in common, like the same activities. he then started to invite her to our home for dinner, he said she was from another country so he was just being hospitable. But these invitations started to happen weekly and some times dinner was to a restaurant. He even invited her to stay in our home overnight. We have been together for 25 years and have five children, four of whom are adults. They began to question his behaviour. So, I asked him what was going on. I explained how uncomfortable I was at their friendship and that the kids had noticed a change in him too. He told me it was all in my head! That they were just friends and anyway she had a long term boyfriend. I said they weren't showing much respect to either of their partners. So as the days followed I persevered and questoned him again and then his walls came down and he told me while not intentionally wanting it to happen he had developed feelings for her and was unsure of how he felt about me anymore. He wasn't sure if he loved me enough to stay with me or if we had a future together. This rocked my world as up to then we had what I thought was a very good marriage, we laughed, had fun, talked about everything, had a great sex life, I felt safe with him. He told me he needed time to think about things. I moved out of our bed and gave him the space to do his thinking. I even got him to go to talk to a family member and tell them about what was going on. He came back saying he was sorry for upsetting me and it was me he wanted. He didn't want to loose what we had or break up our family. I thought we had turned a corner and could rebuild back to what we had. But things didn't change. They used to text each other out of work hours, he always had an excuse, saying it was something she'd find useful for her Uni course or some other excuse. Anyway, her placement finished and I thought that would be it but the contact has still remained. I suggested marriage counselling, he agreed but to go on his own, he went for one session! He continued contact. He even sent her a gift at Christmas, text her for her birthday and then for the New year. Any excuse he can get he reaches out to her. It was from a recent message that she told him she had broken up with her boyfriend. He then had to go away for a work trip for five weeks and was in contact with her before he left and on returning made arrangements to meet up with her before he flew home. Work plans changed and they didn't get to meet. In spite of numerous requests from me to stop the contact he says they are just friends. I know there has never been anything physical between them except a hug, but I see it an as emotional affair which has hurt me deeply. My mental health is in my boots and the whole situation has made me doubtful, untrusting, paranoid and just very sad. Can an almost 50 year old man be just friends with a 23 year old woman? Is it unreasonable of me to want the contact to stop? Am I being a fool to stay? All advice appreciated.


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## Andy1001

She’s quite possibly using him as a sugar daddy. Maybe tell him that?


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## TC680

Andy1001 said:


> She’s quite possibly using him as a sugar daddy. Maybe tell him that?


I don't think she's doing anything to encourage him to be honest, it's all him, he's always the one reaching out not her.


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## D0nnivain

TC680 said:


> Can an almost 50 year old man be just friends with a 23 year old woman? Is it unreasonable of me to want the contact to stop? Am I being a fool to stay?


You are not foolish to stay. You have a long marriage. Throwing it away is not easy. If you learn that this is a PA then you will be foolish to stay. 

He's got some sort of mid life crisis going on. She may be flattered by the attention but not really return his affection.

Can your kids talk to dad about how inappropriate he's being? Do you have a pastor or somebody else who can talk to him?

In your shoes, I may be more direct. I'd have her over for dinner & in front of him ask her point blank what is going on. Tell her she's ruining your marriage. She may be so naive she has no idea. He'll be furious that you embarrassed him but it may stop the contact on her end.


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## Diana7

They are in an EA at the very least. You need to say that unless it stops the marriage is over.
It's entirely wrong for a married man to have this sort of a relationship with another woman, especially one his children's age.

He won't stop unless he has to, and right now he has faced no consequences.

You have to be prepared not to share him with another woman and walk away if he refuses to stop.


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## TC680

D0nnivain said:


> You are not foolish to stay. You have a long marriage. Throwing it away is not easy. If you learn that this is a PA then you will be foolish to stay.
> 
> He's got some sort of mid life crisis going on. She may be flattered by the attention but not really return his affection.
> 
> Can your kids talk to dad about how inappropriate he's being? Do you have a pastor or somebody else who can talk to him?
> 
> In your shoes, I may be more direct. I'd have her over for dinner & in front of him ask her point blank what is going on. Tell her she's ruining your marriage. She may be so naive she has no idea. He'll be furious that you embarrassed him but it may stop the contact on her end.


I did message her and told her about how I felt about their'friendship' and that was hurting me and my kids. She was upset about it but after talking with her Mum she was told not to speak with me. Nothing about my husband! I asked her not to reply to texts she receives from him but she blocked me from all socials and messaging and has kept in contact with him. My husband keeps saying they are only 'friends' and that he loves me but if the shoe was on the foot I would cut someone off who'd come between us.


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## D0nnivain

If you have mentioned it to her & she chose to cut you out, this is not a healthy friendship. She has designs on your husband. 

It may be time for an ultimatum to him -- her or you. You have to be prepared to follow through with divorce when he picks her so get your ducks in a row.


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## TC680

Diana7 said:


> They are in an EA at the very least. You need to say that unless it stops the marriage is over.
> It's entirely wrong for a married man to have this sort of a relationship with another woman, especially one his children's age.
> 
> He won't stop unless he has to, and right now he has faced no consequences.


Believe me I have told him that if he stays in contact with her our marraige is over but he maintains they are just 'friends' with alot of common interests. But he developed feelings for her so I'm saying a 'friendship' isn't possible.


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## D0nnivain

If he has feelings it's no longer a friendship. If it was really just a friendship he'd be picking your marriage & getting rid of her.


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## TC680

D0nnivain said:


> If you have mentioned it to her & she chose to cut you out, this is not a healthy friendship. She has designs on your husband.
> 
> It may be time for an ultimatum to him -- her or you. You have to be prepared to follow through with divorce when he picks her so get your ducks in a row.


I gave that ultimate on yesterday, her or me! He said I'm being ridiculous and blowing things out of proportion.


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## TC680

D0nnivain said:


> If he has feelings it's no longer a friendship. If it was really just a friendship he'd be picking your marriage & getting rid of her.


He says his feelings are now only for friendship and not romantic. He wants both our marraige and to be able to contact her. I told him he can't have his cake and eat it!


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## D0nnivain

You are not being ridiculous. It's time for action.


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## In Absentia

well, why would you want to stay with a man who is in love with another woman? Just kick him out. It's upsetting and embarrassing for everyone.


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## TC680

D0nnivain said:


> You are not being ridiculous. It's time for action.


Thanks for your comments, I needed an impartial viewpoint. This whole situation has made me question myself. How can I love the bones of this man who won't let his girl go? My confidence and self-esteem is at an all time low.


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## TC680

In Absentia said:


> well, why would you want to stay with a man who is in love with another woman? Just kick him out. It's upsetting and embarrassing for everyone.


He says he doesn't love her, he just wants to stay friends with her. He says it's me he loves and our family together. But still refuses to stop contact with her.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

TC680 said:


> He says he doesn't love her, he just wants to stay friends with her. He says it's me he loves and our family together. But still refuses to stop contact with her.


What else would he say?


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## BigDaddyNY

TC680 said:


> I gave that ultimate on yesterday, her or me! He said I'm being ridiculous and blowing things out of proportion.


You have to follow through with the ultimatum, otherwise it is meaningless.



TC680 said:


> He says he doesn't love her, he just wants to stay friends with her. He says it's me he loves and our family together. But still refuses to stop contact with her.


He can't have both, he is just lying to you. If he truly loved you and his family it would be a no brainer to cut her off. She is not family, and should come in a distant 2nd to all of you. Guaranteed he is in love with her. No other type of connection would have him put that friendship above you and his family. He is making her a higher priority than you, plain and simple.


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## TC680

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> What else would he say?


So, do you think its ok? I'm interested in a male perspective.


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## D0nnivain

You love him because you have a life time of history together. You love that guy . . . your faithful husband . You don't necessarily love this stranger having a midlife crisis who is embarrassing himself & you fawning over this girl 

I would take a last ditch effort getting the kids to warn him mom is serious if he doesn't cut it out. If he has a BFF who ca weigh in try that too. Give him every opportunity to change his ways but then you have to walk. You'd be foolish to stay. Staying is what is destroying your self esteem because it makes no sense that he's throwing it all away for her.


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## *Deidre*

TC680 said:


> He says he doesn't love her, he just wants to stay friends with her. He says it's me he loves and our family together. But still refuses to stop contact with her.


He’s saying that to keep the status quo with you, so he can see where this may lead with his “friend.” I think you should seek legal advice to be prepared. Sorry this is happening in your world, right now.


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## TC680

BigDaddyNY said:


> You have to follow through with the ultimatum, otherwise it is meaningless.
> 
> 
> He can't have both, he is just lying to you. If he truly loved you and his family it would be a no brainer to cut her off. She is not family, and should come in a distant 2nd to all of you. Guaranteed he is in love with her. No other type of connection would have him put that friendship above you and his family. He is making her a higher priority than you, plain and simple.


That's exactly the way I see it but he keep denying it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

TC680 said:


> So, do you think its ok? I'm interested in a male perspective.


He's gas lighting you, to see if you'll go for it. Don't.


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## In Absentia

TC680 said:


> He says he doesn't love her, he just wants to stay friends with her. He says it's me he loves and our family together. But still refuses to stop contact with her.


His actions speak louder than his words...


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## ccpowerslave

Good call making him pick. It’s not acceptable at all how he has been behaving especially in light of your request.


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## TC680

ccpowerslave said:


> Good call making him pick. It’s not acceptable at all how he has been behaving especially in light of your request.


But he says I'm being unreasonable to expect him to cut her off.


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## BigDaddyNY

TC680 said:


> But he says I'm being unreasonable to expect him to cut her off.


No you are not being unreasonable. I would cut off anyone from my life if my wife asked me too. And I agree with @D0nnivain have the adult kids get on him. See if that shakes him out of his foolishness. At least then he would have to say you all are being unreasonable.


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## ccpowerslave

TC680 said:


> But he says I'm being unreasonable to expect him to cut her off.


Let me put it this way.

Let’s say hypothetically I had a friend who was becoming an issue in my marriage. If my wife asked that I ditch that friend, I might be disappointed, they might be disappointed however if they’re really your friend they will understand.

Wife is my #1 person in my life. I would give up pretty much anything to keep her, protect her health, support what she wants to do, etc…

So let’s say my best friend was causing a problem. I would explain it and that would be it.

And that’s if it’s a MAN (I’m a man).

If it was a woman it’s just completely out of order and obnoxious.


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## TC680

ccpowerslave said:


> Let me put it this way.
> 
> Let’s say hypothetically I had a friend who was becoming an issue in my marriage. If my wife asked that I ditch that friend, I might be disappointed, they might be disappointed however if they’re really your friend they will understand.
> 
> Wife is my #1 person in my life. I would give up pretty much anything to keep her, protect her health, support what she wants to do, etc…
> 
> So let’s say my best friend was causing a problem. I would explain it and that would be it.
> 
> And that’s if it’s a MAN (I’m a man).
> 
> If it was a woman it’s just completely out of order and obnoxious.


Thanks, I wish my husband saw things as clearly as you!


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## theloveofmylife

TC680 said:


> Thanks, I wish my husband saw things as clearly as you!


He can't see anything clearly right now. He's in an "affair fog." YOU have to see clearly and stop listening to his bull. 

Sitting back, letting him get away with this, guarantees he will NOT stop. He has no reason to, because there are no consequences for his bad behavior. 

I think you're afraid to tell him to get out because he might. If you don't stand up to him now, he will leave eventually anyway. You have to have boundaries and standards and make him respect you, or it's over anyway. 

I'm sorry you're going through this, but taking action is necessary.


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## Diana7

TC680 said:


> Believe me I have told him that if he stays in contact with her our marraige is over but he maintains they are just 'friends' with alot of common interests. But he developed feelings for her so I'm saying a 'friendship' isn't possible.


It doesn't matter what he says they are, you must stick to what you said. 
Just give him one chance, her or me. I am not one for ending a marriage for no reason but this isn't going to stop otherwise. If he chooses her what does that say? You are sharing your husband.


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## Diana7

TC680 said:


> But he says I'm being unreasonable to expect him to cut her off.


Of course he says that. He wants her and his family.


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## Diana7

TC680 said:


> I gave that ultimate on yesterday, her or me! He said I'm being ridiculous and blowing things out of proportion.


Then he has made his choice. You must follow through.


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## TC680

theloveofmylife said:


> He can't see anything clearly right now. He's in an "affair fog." YOU have to see clearly and stop listening to his bull.
> 
> Sitting back, letting him get away with this, guarantees he will NOT stop. He has no reason to, because there are no consequences for his bad behavior.
> 
> I think you're afraid to tell him to get out because he might. If you don't stand up to him now, he will leave eventually anyway. You have to have boundaries and standards and make him respect you, or it's over anyway.
> 
> I'm sorry you're going through this, but taking action is necessary.


I'm not afraid of anything. I have told him to leave but he wouldn't. He said he loves me and wants a life with me but also a friendship with her. I've told him he can't have both!


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## TC680

Diana7 said:


> Then he has made his choice. You must follow through.


I really want my marriage to work and he says he does too but I can't understand his unwillingness to cut ties with her. We have five kids and I don't want them hurt and torn between us.


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## DownByTheRiver

TC680 said:


> Hi all,
> i just joined this forum to see if I could get some advice. Here's my story....last year my husband started workng alongside a young woman, who came to do a work placement from Uni., she was over half his age. They began a friendship which at the start I found ok but as the time went on I began to notice how my husband stopped having time for me. He used to come home from work and tell me about his day, who he'd met what his day was like but that all stopped. He constantly made reference to her nad how much they had in common, like the same activities. he then started to invite her to our home for dinner, he said she was from another country so he was just being hospitable. But these invitations started to happen weekly and some times dinner was to a restaurant. He even invited her to stay in our home overnight. We have been together for 25 years and have five children, four of whom are adults. They began to question his behaviour. So, I asked him what was going on. I explained how uncomfortable I was at their friendship and that the kids had noticed a change in him too. He told me it was all in my head! That they were just friends and anyway she had a long term boyfriend. I said they weren't showing much respect to either of their partners. So as the days followed I persevered and questoned him again and then his walls came down and he told me while not intentionally wanting it to happen he dad developed feelings for her and was unsure of how he felt about me anymore. He wasn't sure if he loved me enough to stay with me or if we had a future together. This rocked my world as up to then we had what I thought was a very good marriage, we laughed, had fun, talked about everything, had a great sex life, I felt safe with him. He told me he needed time to think about things. I moved out of our bed and gave him the space to do his thinking. I even got him to go to talk to a family member and tell them about what was going on. He came back saying he was sorry for upsetting me and it was me he wanted. He didn't want to loose what we had or break up our family. I thought we had turned a corner and could rebuild back to what we had. But things didn't change. They used to text each other out of work hours, he always had an excuse, saying it was something she'd find useful for her Uni course or some other excuse. Anyway, her placement finished and I thought that would be it but the contact has still remained. I suggested marriage counselling, he agreed but to go on his own, he went for one session! He continued contact. He even sent her a gift at Christmas, text her for her birthday and then for the New year. Any excuse he can get he reaches out to her. It was from a recent message that she told him she had broken up with her boyfriend. He then had to go away for a work trip for five weeks and was in contact with her before he left and on returning made arrangements to meet up with her before he flew home. Work plans changed and they didn't get to meet. In spite of numerous requests from me to stop the contact he says they are just friends. I know there has never been anything physical between them except a hug, but I see it an as emotional affair which has hurt me deeply. My mental health is in my boots and the whole situation has made me doubtful, untrusting, paranoid and just very sad. Can an almost 50 year old man be just friends with a 23 year old woman? Is it unreasonable of me to want the contact to stop? Am I being a fool to stay? All advice appreciated.


She may just be friends with him but he is not just friends with her. Not knowing anything about her except that she's from a different country, I can't say if there's a threat that she could decide to stay with him for her own financial benefit or something like that or for citizenship. I would be very suspect of that 5-week trip he made. I think you're going to have to give him an ultimatum. But there are plenty of foolish 50-year-old men who would gladly walk away from their family if they thought they had a shot at a 20 something.


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## *Deidre*

TC680 said:


> I really want my marriage to work and he says he does too but I can't understand his unwillingness to cut ties with her. We have five kids and I don't want them hurt and torn between us.


It is an unwillingness, not “confusion,” on his part. He knows what he’s doing and he knows that this is more than a friendship, but he wants you to stay where you are and her where she is.

You’ve had a long relationship with him so it will hurt to end it, but if he wants a side “friend” and you, that’s not going to work. I would suggest separation but that will only cause him to spend even more time on her, and pretend like he’s still working on the marriage.

Please get some legal advice just to be prepared. I hope he “snaps out of it,” but I don’t know if I’d stay if my husband did this. This is a dealbreaker for us both - cheating of any kind. But everyone is different, you have to do what is best for you.


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## TC680

DownByTheRiver said:


> She may just be friends with him but he is not just friends with her. Not knowing anything about her except that she's from a different country, I can't say if there's a threat that she could decide to stay with him for her own financial benefit or something like that or for citizenship. I would be very suspect of that 5-week trip he made. I think you're going to have to give him an ultimatum. But there are plenty of foolish 50-year-old men who would gladly walk away from their family if they thought they had a shot at a 20 something.


She lives in another country so is not near us. The 5 week trip was at sea so I know he wasn't with her. He was due to get off the boat near to her and was making arrangements to meet up with her but their destination was changed. I gave him an ultimatum that it's me or her. I'm waiting on his decision. I don't think he would walk away from me and the kids but not wanting to cut ties with her raises a red flag with me.


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## TC680

*Deidre* said:


> It is an unwillingness, not “confusion,” on his part. He knows what he’s doing and he knows that this is more than a friendship, but he wants you to stay where you are and her where she is.
> 
> You’ve had a long relationship with him so it will hurt to end it, but if he wants a side “friend” and you, that’s not going to work. I would suggest separation but that will only cause him to spend even more time on her, and pretend like he’s still working on the marriage.
> 
> Please get some legal advice just to be prepared. I hope he “snaps out of it,” but I don’t know if I’d stay if my husband did this. This is a dealbreaker for us both - cheating of any kind. But everyone is different, you have to do what is best for you.


I suggested separation, but he didn't want it.


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## D0nnivain

At this point what he wants doesn't matter any more. Maybe just maybe you taking decisive action will wake him up but you can't continue to live like this. If he won't make changes, you have to.


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## DownByTheRiver

TC680 said:


> She lives in another country so is not near us. The 5 week trip was at sea so I know he wasn't with her. He was due to get off the boat near to her and was making arrangements to meet up with her but their destination was changed. I gave him an ultimatum that it's me or her. I'm waiting on his decision. I don't think he would walk away from me and the kids but not wanting to cut ties with her raises a red flag with me.


But how do you know she wasn't also on the boat?


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## *Deidre*

TC680 said:


> I suggested separation, but he didn't want it.


Like others have said - it doesn’t matter what he wants. He wants to e-date another woman and see if it has potential, yet still have you at home.

I think you should get some legal advice and start talking in legal terms with him. Like start saying “I talked with an attorney and they said...” If he says “you’re being unreasonable,” just ignore it. He will make you seem crazy, and it’s all sad because it sounds like he was a decent enough husband up until recently.

Were there any red flags of other behaviors before this other woman came into the picture?

If he ends this as you request, will you stay? To me, if he ends it, you can’t rewind time to before it happened. That’s the tough thing about affairs, even if they end, the memory lingers. I think why I wouldn’t stay, is because I wouldn’t be able to trust again. That may not be you, and you may feel the marriage is worth saving because of the overall investment. It’s all so hard and I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.


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## TC680

DownByTheRiver said:


> But how do you know she wasn't also on the boat?


It was racing yacht and I've seen all the crew photos. She's in Uni.


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## DownByTheRiver

TC680 said:


> It was racing yacht and I've seen all the crew photos. She's in Uni.


Good. That's a relief, at least. You'll have to have another talk with him. Start asking him if she's trying to become a citizen (wherever you are). That is an innocent enough question and will give you some info. If no, then much less chance she'd jump aboard a middle-aged man from across the pond just for kicks.


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## TC680

DownByTheRiver said:


> Good. That's a relief, at least. You'll have to have another talk with him. Start asking him if she's trying to become a citizen (wherever you are). That is an innocent enough question and will give you some info. If no, then much less chance she'd jump aboard a middle-aged man from across the pond just for kicks.


It's nothing like that, she was a UK student on placement in Ireland.


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## DownByTheRiver

TC680 said:


> It's nothing like that, she was a UK student on placement in Ireland.


How many miles are between him and her? To your knowledge will she be coming back to your area?


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## Openminded

TC680 said:


> But he says I'm being unreasonable to expect him to cut her off.


What else would you expect him to say when he wants to keep her and not get a divorce? Of course, he‘s going to say whatever allows that to happen. Next it’ll be that you’re crazy.


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## Diana7

TC680 said:


> I suggested separation, but he didn't want it.


It's not about what he wants in the end. It's about what you do about it.


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## Diana7

TC680 said:


> She lives in another country so is not near us. The 5 week trip was at sea so I know he wasn't with her. He was due to get off the boat near to her and was making arrangements to meet up with her but their destination was changed. I gave him an ultimatum that it's me or her. I'm waiting on his decision. I don't think he would walk away from me and the kids but not wanting to cut ties with her raises a red flag with me.


If he really wanted you and the children he would give her up in a heartbeat. 
If he refuses to stop contact you may have to take the next step of getting legal advise. 

I totally appreciate you don't want the children's lives blown up. I hope that when he knows you are serious he will put his family first.


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## TC680

DownByTheRiver said:


> How many miles are between him and her? To your knowledge will she be coming back to your area?


We are in Ireland, she's in the UK, she hasn't any plans to come back, I think.


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## DownByTheRiver

TC680 said:


> We are in Ireland, she's in the UK, she had plans to come back, I think.


Have you considered contacting her privately and just asking her what's up? It's not like she's his work mate and you would be jeopardizing him at work or anything. You might really learn something. You also might make her aware that your husband isn't being "fatherly" or "just friendly" and ask her how she feels about that. You also might tell her that you would appreciate it if any in-person contact with your husband included her boyfriend in tow. She is too close for comfort. If she is actually uncomfortable with the situation with your husband, she might be glad to talk to you and relieved if you rein him in. If not, then you know you have a real problem. You'll know whether she told him or not as long as you don't tell him yourself. If she tells him, you have a problem. If she keeps it confidential between you, you probably do not.


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## TC680

DownByTheRiver said:


> Have you considered contacting her privately and just asking her what's up? It's not like she's his work mate and you would be jeopardizing him at work or anything. You might really learn something. You also might make her aware that your husband isn't being "fatherly" or "just friendly" and ask her how she feels about that. You also might tell her that you would appreciate it if any in-person contact with your husband included her boyfriend in tow. She is too close for comfort. If she is actually uncomfortable with the situation with your husband, she might be glad to talk to you and relieved if you rein him in. If not, then you know you have a real problem. You'll know whether she told him or not as long as you don't tell him yourself. If she tells him, you have a problem. If she keeps it confidential between you, you probably do not.


That should have said hadn't any plans to come back that I know of. I had messaged her and filled her in about what was going on. She was upset and wanted to meet with me to talk but then after talking to her mother she was told to have nothing to do with me. She blocked me from everything. This I couldn't understand, why block me and not my husband! She continued to have contact with him.


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## DownByTheRiver

TC680 said:


> That should have said hadn't any plans to come back that I know of. I had messaged her and filled her in about what was going on. She was upset and wanted to meet with me to talk but then after talking to her mother she was told to have nothing to do with me. She blocked me from everything. This I couldn't understand, why block me and not my husband! She continued to have contact with him.


Well, that in itself is unfortunately pretty telling, isn't it? It's good she wanted to meet with you to talk though, but I don't understand why she'd then block you and not him. Maybe you need to talk to her mother. Hah. I bet she doesn't know she's still talking to him. 

Did she actually tell you her mother said not to talk to her or how did you find that out?


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## TC680

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, that in itself is unfortunately pretty telling, isn't it? It's good she wanted to meet with you to talk though, but I don't understand why she'd then block you and not him. Maybe you need to talk to her mother. Hah. I bet she doesn't know she's still talking to him.
> 
> Did she actually tell you her mother said not to talk to her or how did you find that out?


Yes she told me her mother told her not to interact with me in any way. I've told him it a marriage with me or a friendship with her, he can't have both.


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## DownByTheRiver

TC680 said:


> Yes she told me her mother told her not to interact with me in any way. I've told him it a marriage with me or a friendship with her, he can't have both.


He'll just delay and drag it out hoping to see if she's all in or not. I can't believe he thinks you'll just sit still for that. Seriously do you have any way of knowing what her mother's name is so you could contact her directly? Unless she has some reason for wanting her daughter to go after a middle-aged married man, I have to assume that she doesn't know she still is.


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## TC680

DownByTheRiver said:


> He'll just delay and drag it out hoping to see if she's all in or not. I can't believe he thinks you'll just sit still for that. Seriously do you have any way of knowing what her mother's name is so you could contact her directly? Unless she has some reason for wanting her daughter to go after a middle-aged married man, I have to assume that she doesn't know she still is.


To be honest I think the contact is mostly initiated by my husband. She has an older father and is comfortable around older men. She might like the attention from my husband but I think she looks at it as friendship and nothing more. It's the fact that he became 'fond' of her makes me not comfortable with their friendship.


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## jlg07

In all fairness, see a lawyer, get some papers drawn up. IIRC in Ireland, you need a 1 (maybe 3?) year separation before divorce?
GET that paperwork filled out, but no executed. 
Give yourself a timeframe for when YOU want his answer, and if he hasn't answered by then, give him the papers and have them filed. What HE wants in that regard doesn't matter. He doesn't want that, but YOU don't want him in an (at least) Emotional Affair with this young student either!.


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## DownByTheRiver

TC680 said:


> To be honest I think the contact is mostly initiated by my husband. She has an older father and is comfortable around older men. She might like the attention from my husband but I think she looks at it as friendship and nothing more. It's the fact that he became 'fond' of her makes me not comfortable with their friendship.


But she now knows that that is not friendship because you let her know that and she's still hanging in there. If it were me I would have gotten out of there at the first whiff.


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## Openminded

How long have you given him to make a decision?


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## Quad73

DownByTheRiver said:


> But she now knows that that is not friendship because you let her know that and she's still hanging in there. If it were me I would have gotten out of there at the first whiff.


Yeah, this is the thing.
She been told she's interfering in a marriage, and has responded 'I don't want to hear that, I'm carrying on'. 

She's either too naive to understand her actions / consequences in the situation, is completely self involved, or she's in the game for something. 

If option 3, her mother is in on it. 

Or mother was not actually consulted, your husband was. 

OP your husband is willing to, if not give up, then definitely risk his marriage for this "friendship". He's stated that plain as day. He's gambling right now - you have to raise the stakes or make sure he loses his bet.


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## She'sStillGotIt

TC680 said:


> _*Yes she told me her mother told her not to interact with me in any way. I've told him it a marriage with me or a friendship with her, he can't have both.*_


And let me guess - he's completely ignored that like he's ignored everything else you've said because you DON'T STAND BY YOUR WORD. You squeak like a little mouse and then passively stand by while the guy steamrolls you and you accept it. He uses you and manipulates you into staying the obedient little wife - which benefits HIM - as he chases some woman half his age. And there you are just allowing it day after day after day.



TC680 said:


> _*I'm not afraid of anything. I have told him to leave but he wouldn't. He said he loves me and wants a life with me but also a friendship with her. I've told him he can't have both!*_


OP, all you DO is appease this guy and jump around like a trained seal, desperately hoping he'll "pick" you. That's called the "Pick Me!" Dance, and you've perfected it. Where the hell is the dignity in THAT?



D0nnivain said:


> _*It may be time for an ultimatum to him -- her or you. You have to be prepared to follow through with divorce when he picks her so get your ducks in a row.*_


When you actually have to give your own husband an *ULTIMATUM* to "choose" between yourself or the woman he's clearly pursuing, you've literally given up all your self-respect at that point.

OP, how much MORE are you going to disrespect yourself, begging this assclown to "make a decision?" Make your OWN damned decision! In the meantime, this jackass has the freedom to disrespect you on a daily basis, slobbering over some young girl while you jump around like a trained seal, begging him to love you. At what POINT do you *finally* show yourself a damned shred of self-respect?


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## TC680

She'sStillGotIt said:


> And let me guess - he's completely ignored that like he's ignored everything else you've said because you DON'T STAND BY YOUR WORD. You squeak like a little mouse and then passively stand by while the guy steamrolls you and you accept it. He uses you and manipulates you into staying the obedient little wife - which benefits HIM - as he chases some woman half his age. And there you are just allowing it day after day after day.
> 
> 
> OP, all you DO is appease this guy and jump around like a trained seal, desperately hoping he'll "pick" you. That's called the "Pick Me!" Dance, and you've perfected it. Where the hell is the dignity in THAT?
> 
> 
> When you actually have to give your own husband an *ULTIMATUM* to "choose" between yourself or the woman he's clearly pursuing, you've literally given up all your self-respect at that point.
> 
> OP, how much MORE are you going to disrespect yourself, begging this assclown to "make a decision?" Make your OWN damned decision! In the meantime, this jackass has the freedom to disrespect you on a daily basis, slobbering over some young girl while you jump around like a trained seal, begging him to love you. At what POINT do you *finally* show yourself a damned shred of self-respect?


I've had a lengthy conversation with him. He says it's me he wants to be with and he sees her as a friend and he feels nothing romantically for her. He's saying me and the family are what's important to him and it was a stupid phase he went through having feelings for her of which he says we're never reciprocated. I really want to believe him.


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## D0nnivain

Words are cheap. His actions in fully cutting her off are all that matters. Make sure he's just not telling you what you want to here but contacting her behind your back & lying about it. I'd have a hard time trusting his word at this point. Hopefully he has finally figured it out but remain vigilent.


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## Sfort

TC680 said:


> I've had a lengthy conversation with him. He says it's me he wants to be with and he sees her as a friend and he feels nothing romantically for her. He's saying me and the family are what's important to him and it was a stupid phase he went through having feelings for her of which he says we're never reciprocated. I really want to believe him.


It sounds like he got partially or completely dumped.


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## jlg07

TC680 said:


> He says it's me he wants to be with and he sees her as a friend and he feels nothing romantically for her. He's saying me and the family are what's important to him and it was a stupid phase he went through having feelings for her of which he says we're never reciprocated. I really want to believe him.


But he DID feel something for her (if you can even believe him at this point), so NO CONTACT is a must.
He can't stay friends with someone he was thinking about romantically/sex-wise if he wants to stay married. PERIOD.


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## TC680

Thank you all for your comments, I appreciate them all, they have given me alot to think about.


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## Arkansas

TC680 said:


> Can an almost 50 year old man be just friends with a 23 year old woman?


my 43 year old ex-wife loved banging a 21 year old kid - made her feel 21 again, sparked her, the lust of being with someone who didn't have experience, the badness of doing it all, the wrongness, going against society etc ..... she LOVED it enough to destroy all her family/friend ties, killed her marriage, her relationship with her son, everything she was willing to give up for the sex/connection with a kid

no - they can't be friends, the 50 year old man is banging the 23 year old "woman"


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## nocam7

D0nnivain said:


> You are not foolish to stay. You have a long marriage. Throwing it away is not easy. If you learn that this is a PA then you will be foolish to stay.
> 
> He's got some sort of mid life crisis going on. She may be flattered by the attention but not really return his affection.
> 
> Can your kids talk to dad about how inappropriate he's being? Do you have a pastor or somebody else who can talk to him?
> 
> In your shoes, I may be more direct. I'd have her over for dinner & in front of him ask her point blank what is going on. Tell her she's ruining your marriage. She may be so naive she has no idea. He'll be furious that you embarrassed him but it may stop the contact on her end.


Do not do what this poster is recommending. I'd hate you for it and it would push me away.

He is absolutely willing to bone this chick. Totally normal to be bored but the bigger picture is his family so lean on that. 

You can tell him not to communicate with her. Yes spouses have a say. 

If you thought the marriage was great but he didn't start there. Be understanding and accommodating but firm in what marriage is. He shouldn't keep others in a higher regard than his wife. You need to sort through your lack of awareness and his escapism 

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


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## thissucks7788

Hi there,
I am so sorry you are going through this. I didn't read everyone's responses- but I want to let you know that I have been going through something similiar. I will copy my original post. For the record, I moved my husband out of the house and this girl is still not interested in him romantically. I believe it's a mid life crisis that could last a good while. Not hanging around for the roller coaster and misery it brings. I wish you the best and totally feel for you. 

Hi,
I'm new here and still can't believe this is happening (I'm sure many feel this way).

My story- Married for 22 years and thought we had a fantastic marriage. Seriously. Anywho, husband turned 50 (always worked out but started lifting weights like crazy) and it seems that he is in a (I guess sort of) EA with a 20 year old girl. I say sort of b/c I saw their texts and it seems way more one sided on his part. (I'll explain later). I had suspicions of a strange situation as he has his own business and this girl has been "working with him" on a commission situation. His business is night/weekend but he was spending very late nights once a week with this girl "training" her for months. I asked about it as I thought this was all weird and he laughed saying she was just a kid. I never had reason to doubt him before so I went with it.

Fast forward-- I saw his phone and couldn't help myself but to see his texts with her. I was shocked...he was expressing his love and need for her-- how he dreams about her etc... Seems I am holding him back or some crap like that. Interestingly enough, this girl takes a while to text him back and is very non committal. It doesn't seem as if she is interested in him romantically. No romantic feelings expressed by her at all. My feeling is she likes him as a person and likes the commission money she is getting for not doing very much. I confronted my husband and at first he lied but as I read the texts out loud he had to concede that he has feelings for this girl. He admits that she doesn't seem overly into him. Said she is more like a fantasy. However he is unwilling to not have her "work" with him or not see her. I sent the girl a message (not angry or mean) just saying that I know and I saw the texts and that I told my husband he is free to go. She said that she doesn't think anything is actually going to happen and nothing ever has and that she never wanted this. I told her that based on the texts I believe her.

Husband left and got his own apartment (which I helped him find). My guess is now that he is "free" he is going to pursue this girl hard. Again, reading the texts (from when he last left) she is still very non committal (2 sentence responses and takes a while to respond) I mean I have to assume that when he sees her she is flirting or giving him something. I mean this is strange. I have thought in retrospect and I seriously did not see changes in our marriage -we still got along great and had fun together, had sex regularly, hugged/kissed every morning. I am totally blindsided.

Finality, he says he still loves me and wants to be "great friends". I told him I have no interest in being friends (and I don't). It's like he has gone through some midlife insanity and I woke up in the twilight zone. I have put in as much of the no contact as possible w/ the 180 when I have to deal with him (we have a son and I do some work for the business- which we need for support). I have gotten an additional job and am doing my best to gal.

I guess any insight or comments are appreciated. I still don't know wth happened. Thanks for listening.


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## BigDaddyNY

thissucks7788 said:


> Hi there,
> I am so sorry you are going through this. I didn't read everyone's responses- but I want to let you know that I have been going through somthing similiar. I will copy my original post. For the record, I moved my husband out of the house and this girl is still not interested in him romantically. I believe it's a mid life crisis that could last a good while. Not hanging around for the roller coaster and misery it brings. I wish you the best and totally feel for you.
> 
> Hi,
> I'm new here and still can't believe this is happening (I'm sure many feel this way).
> 
> My story- Married for 22 years and thought we had a fantastic marriage. Seriously. Anywho, husband turned 50 (always worked out but started lifting weights like crazy) and it seems that he is in a (I guess sort of) EA with a 20 year old girl. I say sort of b/c I saw their texts and it seems way more one sided on his part. (I'll explain later). I had suspicions of a strange situation as he has his own business and this girl has been "working with him" on a commission situation. His business is night/weekend but he was spending very late nights once a week with this girl "training" her for months. I asked about it as I thought this was all weird and he laughed saying she was just a kid. I never had reason to doubt him before so I went with it.
> 
> Fast forward-- I saw his phone and couldn't help myself but to see his texts with her. I was shocked...he was expressing his love and need for her-- how he dreams about her etc... Seems I am holding him back or some crap like that. Interestingly enough, this girl takes a while to text him back and is very non committal. It doesn't seem as if she is interested in him romantically. No romantic feelings expressed by her at all. My feeling is she likes him as a person and likes the commission money she is getting for not doing very much. I confronted my husband and at first he lied but as I read the texts out loud he had to concede that he has feelings for this girl. He admits that she doesn't seem overly into him. Said she is more like a fantasy. However he is unwilling to not have her "work" with him or not see her. I sent the girl a message (not angry or mean) just saying that I know and I saw the texts and that I told my husband he is free to go. She said that she doesn't think anything is actually going to happen and nothing ever has and that she never wanted this. I told her that based on the texts I believe her.
> 
> Husband left and got his own apartment (which I helped him find). My guess is now that he is "free" he is going to pursue this girl hard. Again, reading the texts (from when he last left) she is still very non committal (2 sentence responses and takes a while to respond) I mean I have to assume that when he sees her she is flirting or giving him something. I mean this is strange. I have thought in retrospect and I seriously did not see changes in our marriage -we still got along great and had fun together, had sex regularly, hugged/kissed every morning. I am totally blindsided.
> 
> Finality, he says he still loves me and wants to be "great friends". I told him I have no interest in being friends (and I don't). It's like he has gone through some midlife insanity and I woke up in the twilight zone. I have put in as much of the no contact as possible w/ the 180 when I have to deal with him (we have a son and I do some work for the business- which we need for support). I have gotten an additional job and am doing my best to gal.
> 
> I guess any insight or comments are appreciated. I still don't know wth happened. Thanks for listening.


Stories like this and the OP's just make me sad. What seems like good marriages that should be getting to a great point in life, family, etc. and the man does something so stupid like this. I know both genders can do this crap and it isn't everyone by a long shot, but these few idiots make me feel embarrassed for our entire gender and I want to reassure you, far from every man is this stupid. I'm sorry you ended up with one of the idiots. Its like at some point they are struck dumb.


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## thissucks7788

BigDaddyNY said:


> Stories like this and the OP's just make me sad. What seems like good marriages that should be getting to a great point in life, family, etc. and the man does something so stupid like this. I know both genders can do this crap and it isn't everyone by a long shot, but these few idiots make me feel embarrassed for our entire gender and I want to reassure you, far from every man is this stupid. I'm sorry you ended up with one of the idiots. Its like at some point they are struck dumb.


Thanks BigDaddy! I have thought what you wrote so many times. I think it is so hard to find someone who you have fun with, a good friendship, laughs, intimacy etc... and if you find it-- you should treat it like a diamond. Such a shame to throw it away for a child less than half his age who doesn't want him. I am embarrassed for him and sad for us. In the years to come, I believe these spouses will come to feel major regret for their midlife decisions.

I am banking on what you said about good men out there that are not so stupid. I hope to find love again in the future.


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## TC680

Arkansas said:


> my 43 year old ex-wife loved banging a 21 year old kid - made her feel 21 again, sparked her, the lust of being with someone who didn't have experience, the badness of doing it all, the wrongness, going against society etc ..... she LOVED it enough to destroy all her family/friend ties, killed her marriage, her relationship with her son, everything she was willing to give up for the sex/connection with a kid
> 
> no - they can't be friends, the 50 year old man is banging the 23 year old "woman"


Sorry about your wife. No there was definitely nothing physical between them, just emotional. She lives in another country so no physical contact but he wants to keep online contact with her, he says as friends but I don't want that.


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## nocam7

Oh she is online. Yes I'm versed in this. These girls absolutely would love to live where you do. They probably live in a crap area with poor prospects. Now some when they come make great wife's but some stories I hear about are these girls racking up debt, cheating with similar aged men and eventual divorce after citizenship. Happens all of the time. 

Dude needs to stop. If they had feelings or he thinks she is cute and won't stop. It's escapism now but this turns out bad for him. I'm not saying your an A+ either. You both have a chance to renaissance your marriage and have an open discussion about what matters and why.

God gave man two heads but only enough blood to run one at a time. Men have historically been fooled by such things. 

Hypothetically if you had a pen pal what would he think. His response will be telling

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


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## BigDaddyNY

TC680 said:


> Sorry about your wife. No there was definitely nothing physical between them, just emotional. She lives in another country so no physical contact but he wants to keep online contact with her, he says as friends but I don't want that.


Has anything changed with his stance or is he still in this fog? Have the kids talked to him?

@nocam7 does have an interesting point. How would your husband feel about you having a substantial relationship like his with another man? It is more of just a thought, than actual advice to follow through with. Odds are he could say something like I would care figuring you wouldn't actually do it.


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## TC680

nocam7 said:


> Oh she is online. Yes I'm versed in this. These girls absolutely would love to live where you do. They probably live in a crap area with poor prospects. Now some when they come make great wife's but some stories I hear about are these girls racking up debt, cheating with similar aged men and eventual divorce after citizenship. Happens all of the time.
> 
> Dude needs to stop. If they had feelings or he thinks she is cute and won't stop. It's escapism now but this turns out bad for him. I'm not saying your an A+ either. You both have a chance to renaissance your marriage and have an open discussion about what matters and why.
> 
> God gave man two heads but only enough blood to run one at a time. Men have historically been fooled by such things.
> 
> Hypothetically if you had a pen pal what would he think. His response will be telling
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Not a case of coming from a poor background or area. They were short term work colleagues who developed a close friendship but my husband developed feelings for her, of which I made her aware but she stopped contact with me and continued to be in contact with my husband.


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## nocam7

My comment still stands. He likes her, he dreams about a life with her without what he sees as your negatives. Ask him if it's okay for you to chat to guys online and develop feelings. Make him feel like he is losing something and he may want you more. 

You said to stop it
He has feelings and still does
Y'all need to talk through this with a third party

I wish I was his friend, this is such a bone head move with real people getting hurt for his escape. 

To quote another man. When talking about the grass being greener on the other side. "Someone is sick of her **** too"

If you live in America then it's better than where she is at and she is playing your dude. Get off this forum and kick it in the pants 


Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


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## thissucks7788

BigDaddyNY said:


> Has anything changed with his stance or is he still in this fog? Have the kids talked to him?
> 
> @nocam7 does have an interesting point. How would your husband feel about you having a substantial relationship like his with another man? It is more of just a thought, than actual advice to follow through with. Odds are he could say something like I would care figuring you wouldn't actually do it.


When I was helping my H with a problem, I stopped myself and said I wonder if you would be this helpful to me if the shoe was on the other foot. My d-bag said as long as nothing physical happened.


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## BigDaddyNY

thissucks7788 said:


> When I was helping my H with a problem, I stopped myself and said I wonder if you would be this helpful to me if the shoe was on the other foot. My d-bag said as long as nothing physical happened.


That's what I always worry about when it comes to trying to make the betrayer see what it is like when the shoe in on the other foot. It is too easy for them to say something like what you H said. It is just words until you would actually be doing it, and an honorable person won't go that revenge route.


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## thissucks7788

Okay I had time to read through all of the posts and I agree with most of the sentiments here. Also, I have been going through this (as you can read from my above post) I seriously know how you feel. For real. My H turned 50 and is chasing a 20 y.o who still lives at home with her parents. I have asked about this strange relationship for months before all was revealed and he laughed me off as she is "just a kid". (similiar to your H's flippant responses) I found the texts he sent her and like your H, is it was pretty one sided. Him doing all of the initiating and saying how beautiful she is etc...  She responds wayyy later with couple of sentences so def. more one sided. Finally, finally when caught like a rat in a trap he admitted he has feelings for her and now is unsure about our marriage. Mind you, we also got along great, laughed together, had intimacy and I would have said that we had an extremely strong marriage.,,that he was my rock. I was blindsided, shocked and furious. Also like your H,he is unwilling to end the relationship. I was/am shocked he would give up our strong relationship (or so I thought) our family, home, everything we built for a longshot with a kid. However since he was unwilling, I told him to pack his s&it and helped him find an apt. Like your H, I believe a midlife crisis is the catalyst here but that being said, they are still responsible for their choices.

IMO, you have no option but to ask him to leave if he won't end the so called "affair". You can't talk him out of, logic him, beg him out of his feelings. He needs to feel the consequences of losing you and your life together. I can't tell you how painful it is/was to do this. I have cried a river, been angry, journaled, meditated etc... and I am still pissed (it has been 2 months to the day from when I found out) Please keep your dignity and self esteem- ask him to leave, consult a lawyer, put your finances together and I have done no contact with him (except for kid stuff and business question which I keep short, and non emotional). Allow him to feel your absence in his life. This is really the only thing that can actually save your marriage if you would still like to do that. It is also the only way imo to preserve your dignity and self esteem. I wish I could give you a hug b/c I know the pain you are going through. Please continue to keep us updated, the people here on Tam are great and will help guide you. xoxo

Also, this was my action plan if it helps you:
-get him out
-speak to a lawyer (usually free consultation) just to know where you stand
-make sure you have some finances etc... in your name
-Do a 180 on him and go into no contact with him (short of child/finances-and be non-emotional and don't discuss relationship at all)
-Call on friends and go out (even when I don't feel like it)
-Exercise (which I did before but continue even when I don't feel like it)
-If you have supportive family, talk to them
-Never cry in front of him "never show your face" Always look strong in front of him- it will seem like he could def. lose you. (he thinks he has all of the cards b/c he has a choice-- take it away from him)
-I found an additional job to pay the bills
-I rearranged the house after he left and took down his pictures (the wedding one was hard)
-speak to a therapist (also journal, meditate)
-Sign up for a class or something you like (I just signed up for a tennis class) I always played when I was a kid and enjoyed it. 
-Allow yourself to grieve the relationship - it is like a death of the future you thought you had. Assume it is over -- I know that is so hard. If he does come crawling back, you can decide what you want to do but assume it is done.

I hope this helps!


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## oldshirt

edit: wrong thread.


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## MattMatt

@TC680 Your husband is an Eejit. He should go no contact with her 100%.

Check with a solicitor on divorce in Ireland. Sorry he is being such a divvy.


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