# How Can I Help Her?



## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

I need help with helping my wife cope with her emotions and lead her back.

As I posted under another thread last week, my wife was in an intense emotional affair. After a lot of thought and prayer, yesterday, she ended it. She is now in the grieving process as I believe she truly loved this guy. I want to help her through this but I don't know what to do at this point. I know to a point she blames me for making her cut it off. I want to be there for her but I don't want to do too much too soon, but I also don't want her to slip back and call him again.

Any advice?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

The grieving and resentment are normal. It is all part of the process. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. Be supportive and understanding of her. She may require a little space for a while. Don't go overboard with flowers and romance, she is not ready for it. Whatever changes you have committed to her stick to them. Good for her for ending the EA, I hope she is strong enough to go through with it. Hang tight it will be a slow and gradual process for her to get over him and begin to reconnect with you. Good luck


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## Ted (Mar 2, 2009)

:iagree:

My wife went through this too. It's almost like they are giving up a drug. 

My best advice is to be patient. It is a grieving process, and it takes time. Try to do things that speak her love language without being over the top romantic. Like Amplexor said, she may not be ready for those kind of gestures yet. 

And as best as you can, be forgiving, because if she acts like this long enough, you might begin to be resentful. (Which is totally justified...but probably wont help your marriage.)


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

IMO, this is where you need to back off. You can't possibly help her cope with this. You're the 3rd wheel here.

You can only continue to be the loving, helpful husband in the relationship that the two of you have. She's going to have to cope with what she's done and where she is at on her own as this is of her making. She chose this path. She has to suffer the consequences. 

You're there for her and that's all anyone can be for anyone else. But don't try to force anything or talk about what she doesn't want to discuss.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Hold on just a minute here. Your wife is the one who cheated and yo are trying to make her pain go away?

No effin way!!

She should be trying her darndest to make amends for straying from her vows.

Stop trying to make it easier for her. 

This whole dynamic is reversed.

Are you not feeling anything distressing about what she did?

Am I missing something here?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Michzz, the reason is his last statement :

I also don't want her to slip back and call him again


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

I know what you are saying, but here's the deal, she didn't set out talking to this guy with anything devious in mind. He was an old boyfriend from high school and she was just curious to know how he ended up. He turned out to be a very smooth talking individual who smoozed her at a time when our relationship was suffering due to the stresses of life (kids, money, environment). It happened, I share some blame for and to be honest, right now, I don't have an angry feeling towards her at all. Yes, I was hurt, more so than I have ever been in my life. I have lost nearly 25 lbs in 2 weeks. But I LOVE HER! She is still my wife and my life. I want to help her cope with this and start rebuilding my marriage but I don't want to make a mistake, its too important. Thus my quest for advice.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

michzz said:


> Am I missing something here?


Having been through this myself michzz yes you are. Generally when a spouse falls into an EA it is not something done on purpose. They are looking for attention, an ear, a friend.... In many cases they don't even realize the relationship has crossed the line until it's too late or they are caught and really see what it is. I agree the offending spouse is guilty of crossing the line, but what she is going through is painful. It is a break up with some one they have deep feelings for and won't get over it quick. There is a time for tough love and there is a time for understanding and forgiveness. I don't believe rubbing her nose in it will accomplish anything other than to alienate her further and make her wonder if breaking it off was the right thing to do. If she is a woman of moral character she will recognize what happened and will bring more guilt down on herself then he ever could. She will burden herself. Not all situations are the same but when my wife went through it it was difficult for us both. But I was there for her, supported her and she was for me in kind. I understand what you are saying but now is a time for the relationship to stabilize and heal.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Amplexor said:


> If she is a woman of moral character she will recognize what happened and will bring more guilt down on herself then he ever could. She will burden herself. Not all situations are the same but when my wife went through it it was difficult for us both. But I was there for her, supported her and she was for me in kind. I understand what you are saying but now is a time for the relationship to stabilize and heal.


That's a big if to assume when someone has cast off their morality.

I too have been through this. And I did the whole empathy route. The result? More cheating for years.

I'm not a fan of enabling a nurtured exit from an affair. It is enabling continued cheating.

I do not see it as rubbing her nose in it to insist on change. Sensitivity maybe in not calling her a *****, etc. But empathy for her loss? I do not think that is the correct strategy at all.


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

michzz:

It's love M, love. When you love someone you see what they are going through, and understand. You remain their friend when they do you wrong, and you stand by them to become a greater person.

That is what Amp and others on this thread are talking about.

Just seeing these responses with the love in them makes them bigger people in my book.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

michzz said:


> Hold on just a minute here. Your wife is the one who cheated and yo are trying to make her pain go away?
> 
> No effin way!!
> 
> ...


Exactly what I was thinking... it's like I hit some sort of alternate universe when I started reading this thread...


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

I can only speak from my experience and it worked for us. My wife is of high moral standards but got sucked in and made a mistake. In my opinion she was manipulated and used for his own ego strokes and exit from his own marriage. She brought plenty of guilt down on herself, I didn't need to reinforce it. I don't equate understanding and support as enabling. While my wife struggled with the end of the EA and even stubbed her toe, she understood what the outcome would be if she didn't break it off for good and she did. I gave her space but didn't enable her. As in any affair, PA or EA, there comes a time that both parties must accept what happened then move on to recover the marriage. I did that early after she finally understood and admitted to me her feelings for him. I still credit the four words below for the advances my wife and I have made in our marriage. Like any wound a marital one takes care and time to heal.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Sandy55 said:


> michzz:
> 
> It's love M, love. When you love someone you see what they are going through, and understand. You remain their friend when they do you wrong, and you stand by them to become a greater person.
> 
> ...


Maybe they didn't get infected with an STD or two during their spouse's precious journey. Nor get gaslighted about when the affair REALLY ENDED.

Did they get to find out that their spouse was still banging some guy years after it supposedly ended? Or that likely many, many times after to supposed end of the affair they were having sex with their spouse on the same day as one of their sick encounters.

Walk a 100 feet in my shoes and you will understand the alarm bells I have about being so accommodating to a cheating spouse.

I DID all that. the results were disastrous. That nurturing empathy got used by a wife who still wanted to cheat.


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

michzz - no one is saying that the way you feel is wrong - it is what happened in your situation - no one is saying that treating her in an empathetic loving way is a guarantee that she won't revert. What they are saying is that in order for this marriage to have the best possiblity of a long future this is the best way to respond. Its up to her if she decides to recommit herself to the marriage. Its almost a guarantee that if he responds with harshness and uncaring, now that she's actually broken it off, it is more likely to drive her right back to the man that showed her these things in her EA - I mean why not call it quits with the man that is treating me like scum and go with the guy who was treating me like a queen. If she is like me - she will be beating herself up for years and feeling guilty for years - and believe me I think that's almost worse than you laying the guilt on. I can escape from someone else if it gets to be to much - I can't escape from my own thoughts.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

TNgirl232 said:


> michzz - no one is saying that the way you feel is wrong - it is what happened in your situation - no one is saying that treating her in an empathetic loving way is a guarantee that she won't revert. What they are saying is that in order for this marriage to have the best possiblity of a long future this is the best way to respond. Its up to her if she decides to recommit herself to the marriage. Its almost a guarantee that if he responds with harshness and uncaring, now that she's actually broken it off, it is more likely to drive her right back to the man that showed her these things in her EA - I mean why not call it quits with the man that is treating me like scum and go with the guy who was treating me like a queen. If she is like me - she will be beating herself up for years and feeling guilty for years - and believe me I think that's almost worse than you laying the guilt on. I can escape from someone else if it gets to be to much - I can't escape from my own thoughts.


I don't think you folks are understanding what I am saying. 

I DID as they are recommending he do.

My wife led me to believe the affair was OVER. In reality? She was CONTINUING the affair and using my nurturing, empathetic attitude to continue cheating for YEARS.

I'm not saying that there are not some cheaters who feel guilty about their affair so they eventually stop in some kind of reasonable timeframe.

What I am saying is that there is a very big risk in thinking that all are that way.

It is not so.

A world of hurt is risked by not considering this possibility.

My wife gave me HPV and Chlamydia AFTER the so-called end of her affair and tried to say I gave them to her. Then tried to say they were old infections from the past!

And what did I do? Figured she was right about the second statement, that I had to suck it up and just move forward. She even fooled the marriage counselor, lying, lying, lying.

Telling the guy to just be such a sweetheart about her cheating?

No way!


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

Michzz - and I think you're missing what we are saying. We all know there is a chance - but the best odds to keep her from doing that is to treat her with love and kindness at this point. Sure she may go back to the other guy - but to assume that from the beginning just taints his treatment of her and will increase the likelyhood.

You speak from your experience - others have spoken from theirs where it worked - how come your point is more valid?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

If every woman were your wife then this advice would be off-base. However, not every woman is like your lousy, selfish, ***** of a wife, Mich. Some people just simply make mistakes and move on from them.

Your wife is not among those people.

But why paint everyone with the same brush? Man, you need to work on your bitterness and stop projecting it on every other woman out there. It is getting very old.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

TNgirl232 said:


> You speak from your experience - others have spoken from theirs where it worked - how come your point is more valid?


Because Mich is more angry.


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

Oh - I'll have to remember that as my trump card the next time I'm in an discussion with someone. Poof - I win  (j/k)


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

TNgirl232 said:


> Michzz - and I think you're missing what we are saying. We all know there is a chance - but the best odds to keep her from doing that is to treat her with love and kindness at this point. Sure she may go back to the other guy - but to assume that from the beginning just taints his treatment of her and will increase the likelyhood.
> 
> You speak from your experience - others have spoken from theirs where it worked - how come your point is more valid?


Didn't say more valid. But don't dismiss it as invalid.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

dobo said:


> If every woman were your wife then this advice would be off-base. However, not every woman is like your lousy, selfish, ***** of a wife, Mich. Some people just simply make mistakes and move on from them.
> 
> Your wife is not among those people.
> 
> But why paint everyone with the same brush? Man, you need to work on your bitterness and stop projecting it on every other woman out there. It is getting very old.


Your cynicism about real pain is something else.

This must be empathize with cheaters only day.


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

And we aren't - we just advise going into with an optimistic view point rather than a pessimistic one - its the more likely of the two. You have a pessimistic one because your wife just wanted to make herself happy and screw you over in the process - but not all women are like that. The poster committed himself to giving her a second chance and he can't go into it holding a part back because it might not work - he knows that already.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

TNgirl232 said:


> And we aren't - we just advise going into with an optimistic view point rather than a pessimistic one - its the more likely of the two. You have a pessimistic one because your wife just wanted to make herself happy and screw you over in the process - but not all women are like that. The poster committed himself to giving her a second chance and he can't go into it holding a part back because it might not work - he knows that already.


Sure, be optimistic--with eyes wide open.

I make my statements in the hope that some other person has the risks clearly outlined about an outcome they don't want.

Think of it, trusting a cheater, someone willing to deceive and risk their marriage, to no longer do that? 

If they have a conscience then great--game over. If they are an excellent deceiver? World of hurt.

Some may find hearing this tedious or boring. Sorry about that.


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

I don't see a problem with the statement - your original posts just spoke of "its hopeless dude don't even try" to me - instead of a 'hey keep this thought in the back of your mind - it didn't work out as well for me as it did for others'

Eventually for the marriage to actually work he will have to trust her again and she will have had to earn it....not now - maybe in a year from now or two even....but if he doesn't ever trust her again - she will know and it will be a vicious circle. 

He made the decision to fix this which means he has to let her build the trust again. If you can't trust the one your married to - what's the point?


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Both of your quoted phrases are not anything I wrote. However, if you are using those quotes to represent your interpretation of what I wrote or thought, I suppose they work--for your interpretation.

My thinking is that he should have those thought in the foreground and also alert her that he knows the specific risks that his empathy for her can result in, the pain he may experience from doing so.

Personally? Knowing what I know now, I would be specific in what I would tolerate and expect her to be candid in marriage counseling and I'd have insisted on a polygraph test.

I also would not have been so accommodating about her need to grieve.

She turned what i thought was recovery period, a reconnection to be essentially emotional torture along with STDS.

It's not a trivlal risk to the OP to be so accommodating to her "pain."

I did blindly trust based on love. She use that trust to behave badly.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

michzz I am truly sorry for what your wife put you through and the destructive path she left. I think it is good for desperado to hear alternate opinions on this and ultimately it is he who knows his wife best and will need to chose his path. I don't disagree that in some instances a hard stance must be taken. That wasn't the case for me as I knew my wife, the circumstances and how she got there. I also recognized my own faults in making her vulnerable. It wasn't all wrist patting and ah honey. There were difficult conversations, boundaries were set and expectations made. I don't side with a cheater, EA or PA because ultimately they did make a choice. But in our case patience and understanding was the right way to go. I think it also important to note that my wife as well as desperado's didn't engage in physical intimacy. My direction would most definitely been a different one as in out the door. Thanks for your input and story, posters need to see all the sides and that's what the forum is for.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

You don't think he knows the risks? He doesn't come acoss as a naive person in any way, shape or form.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

dobo said:


> You don't think he knows the risks? He doesn't come acoss as a naive person in any way, shape or form.


Have you been cheated on Dobro? I'm not referring to a naivete. The swirl of emotions and agitation and desperation to fix things makes a guy who's found out his wife cheated make decisions without clarity. 

A reminder from someone who's been through this, I would find useful. More so than from someone who has not experienced this. and i would not wish that experience on anyone.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

If I have been cheated on, I am not aware. But it is interesting listening to you talk versus listening to others who have been likewise hurt. Somehow it is worse for you. Maybe because you feel trapped and can't get out. Maybe because you feel she made a fool out of you. But that's about you. The level of anger is massive. You need to get yoursel out of that situation even if it costs you big. It will devour you.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

I appreciate your point of view, michzz. But that scenario doesn't fit my wife. She has a strong Christian value system. She is still wrapping her head around the feelings she has developed for this person, they are strong. To her, even though the feelings are all based on fantasy, they are still real. This is a tough time for her. She is not a ***** in any sense of the word. She is a caring mother and wonderful wife that found herself in a very difficult situation before she even realized she was there. I know her better than she knows herself. One question I do have though is how long will the grief last? How long until she starts getting back into our relationship?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

How long will her grief last? Is that what you're asking?


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

desparado said:


> I appreciate your point of view, michzz. But that scenario doesn't fit my wife. She has a strong Christian value system. She is still wrapping her head around the feelings she has developed for this person, they are strong. To her, even though the feelings are all based on fantasy, they are still real. This is a tough time for her. She is not a ***** in any sense of the word. She is a caring mother and wonderful wife that found herself in a very difficult situation before she even realized she was there. I know her better than she knows herself. One question I do have though is how long will the grief last? How long until she starts getting back into our relationship?


Too my wife 8 years to stop cheating, another 7 to stop lying about it.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

dobo said:


> How long will her grief last? Is that what you're asking?


Yes, any ideas on how long this process will take?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

desparado said:


> One question I do have though is how long will the grief last? How long until she starts getting back into our relationship?


In our case it was about 2 - 3 months but was kind of like quitting smoking. It got easier for us both slowly,day by day, week by week.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

dobo said:


> If I have been cheated on, I am not aware. But it is interesting listening to you talk versus listening to others who have been likewise hurt. Somehow it is worse for you. Maybe because you feel trapped and can't get out. Maybe because you feel she made a fool out of you. But that's about you. The level of anger is massive. You need to get yoursel out of that situation even if it costs you big. It will devour you.


It's about the theft of time, getting exposed to diseases, and the cruelty of it for so long. What makes someone who tries to make you think they love you and made a little mistake as a deception strategy be able to sleep like a baby at night?

She stole the chance for a different life from me--either with her or without her.


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## brighterlight (Aug 13, 2009)

I understand the feeling of loving your spouse. I forgave mine for having an EA AND PA.

BUT, I'm sorry, I agree with michzz!!

You see, I also had some really really really miserable times in our relationship (terrible and unbearable) but hey, guess what - I didn't go and cheat on her to make myself feel better. Out of respect and honor of my marriage I kept it faithful. So no, I wasn't lovey this and lovey that when she ended it. I was supportive of her and we worked through it but I can honestly tell you that if she would have fallen in love with this OM moron, I would have asked for a divorse. Her's was a physical and emotional affair but she never appeared to me like she was in love with the moron becuase she cut off the relationship cold turkey and we started working on and US only. Those were my conditions. Sorry but I agree with Michzz. I am not needy enough to have accepted an easy way out for her becuase she felt "love" for the moron. That would have pushed me over the edge. As michzz said in his earlier post - "no friggen' way".


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

TNgirl232 said:


> Michzz - and I think you're missing what we are saying. We all know there is a chance - but the best odds to keep her from doing that is to treat her with love and kindness at this point.


I wouldn't coddle the feelings of someone who had betrayed me any more than I would pet a venomous snake who had just bit me. 
Forgiveness is one thing, but helping her to get over the other man??? Ridiculous.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Michzz, I think you're wrong about your future. You just have to take the leap of faith and divorce her sorry azz. Then you'll feel the weight lifting from you and you'll start to see with renewed hope. So long as you stay where you are, you'll die. You have to get out of there.


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## frozensprouts (Aug 1, 2009)

there's probably not right or wrong way to feel when something like this happens- you just feel how you feel.

With me, my husband actually asked me, at one point, what he should say to his "girlfriend' to break up with her. How weird is that? 

One thing that I have learned though, is that that unless your spouse is ready to see the other person for the sneaking, lying home wrecker they are, don't force the issue. That will only serve to make that person look like a "victim" and garner more sympathy.


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## ShuffleUp (Jun 5, 2009)

This one is a tough one but I can give my limited (and incomplete) experience. 

I first tried the really loving and supportive role and "asked" her to please pick me. This did not work very well and I was miserable and anxious for about 45 days. At which point, and i think this was key, I became indifferent as to what she chose and so I FORCED her to make a choice rather than asking her to make a choice.

Once I did this, I immediately felt better. By not forcing a decision I was allowing her to continue to have both relationships. Once I forced it, resolution was going to come to me either way. I flat out told her I was ready to send her divorce papers the next day if she couldn't break it off from the OM. She freaked and then I found out (she doesn't know that I know) she emailed all of her friends and said not to mention OM's name to her and never to route any messages from him to her because, "xxxxx told me if I didn't get my act together he would send me papers so I'm really going to break it off."

I thought that when I was loving her and asking politely for her to stop, that she knew I was serious. But you have to be willing to DO SOMETHING about it.

Having said that, since she has broken contact, it was really hard for 6 weeks or so. She would break down once weekly. She was in withdrawal and that is hurtful because you as the husband (rightly) think that she should have never been attached to him. But that doesn't change the reality she was addicted and that is hard to swallow. But if you as the husband choose to try to work through it, that is a reality you have to accept. And what didn't work well in this period for me was bringing up relationship talk, making negative comments, and "throwing it in her face." That was what was on my mind, but it made our relationship worse. 

So I stopped doing that. I started reading Marriage Builders materials - "His Needs, Her Needs," "Love Busters," etc. Now she had broken contact but was mentally in a weird place. It was my opportunity to make home a comfortable place for her and my chance to build up points with my wife while the OM had no possible chance to do so. 

Slowly, the memory of him has begun to fade and meanwhile I am gaining respect and appreciation from my wife. Am I giving more to the relationship than she is? Yes. But while she's "getting over" the OM, that's just what I've signed up for. I don't overdo it and I never feign that I have "forgotten." She knows that, and she clearly understands the consequences of faltering. But if I were to walk around acting pissed all day long then that's not a way to make someone love you either. It's a tough road but I know that by doing what I am doing I will never feel bad about how I handled the situation. That doesn't mean it will certaibnly work, but it means that I asked her to make a choice, she made one, and now I am going to accept that choice at face value and work to show her why that choice was right.


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## chuckf75 (Sep 6, 2009)

I understand if the fellow has no anger toward his wife and thus this will effect how he reacts but there is no way I would not feel resentful. She betrayed him and anger is a normal emotion. Frankly, as the "victim", I would be more worried about MY hurt feelings than hers but that is me and if you don't feel them, well, OK. Just don't be a doormat for somebody else to wipe their **** on...


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

He may not feel resentful and angry now, but it will likely come out later though. Just be prepared for it. Once things get settled and you feel like you've "won" and gotten her back, that is when these other feelings will surface.


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## COFLgirl (Oct 9, 2008)

dobo said:


> He may not feel resentful and angry now, but it will likely come out later though. Just be prepared for it. Once things get settled and you feel like you've "won" and gotten her back, that is when these other feelings will surface.


I agree with this...right now desperado you are in crisis mode and want to maintain equilibrium and regain your 'old' life and marriage. But there will be a lot to work through for you and your wife. Affairs don't just happen-there was something lacking in your wife and possibly in the marriage as well.

If things go well in your marital recovery, desperado, then eventually your feelings about the betrayal will surface and you will have to deal with them at that point. Right now you are in 'saving your marriage at any cost' mode. This is normal and probably even the BEST response for the current moment, but it will pass. Eventually you will begin to ask yourself the hard questions, 'why did my spouse do this to me?' Or even, 'why am I with someone who would hurt me so badly?' Only you can answer these questions, desperado.

As for helping the WS 'get over' their AP-this depends on the tolerance level of the BS. I have experienced infidelity in my marriage and it crushed me. But, I would have never been to hold my WS hand while he grieved the loss of the other person. That is just me...and I get that sometimes that helping a WS through the grieving process is necessary first before working on the marriage. 

I just know I could have never done it. For one thing, I was too emotionally battered myself to even think of being able to offer this type of support to someone who was supposed to love ME. But I would have also felt like that would have been the final blow to our marriage...to know that my spouse had fallen in love with someone else. That is the ultimate form of infidelity, at least IMO. 

I know others differ...for many it is the sexual component that is the deal breaker and that is also horrible. But the emotional part...if my husband had invested that much of himself with someone else...I know I would have felt that a vital part of our relationship would have been gone forever. Some type of sacred bond would have been severed between us and I don't think I/we would have been able to regain that ever again.

desperado, recovering from any infidelity is difficult and only you know what you can do. If you are okay with helping your wife through this process of grieving the OM and then beginning to build your way to a stronger marriage, then go for it. Just know that no matter what, it will be probably the hardest thing you will ever do-take it from someone who has also been in a similar place as you are.


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## Calypso (May 11, 2009)

It will take months for the wife to deal with her emotions. It did for my H when he finally made his decision to stay with me. Then other emotions will surface for both of them. It's been a year and I'm still dealing with roller coaster emotions and melt downs. But I will say it's 100% better then it was a year ago but it's still a long road to travel.


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## crazy&conflicted (Oct 1, 2009)

Seriously, desperado and amp- you guys are amazing. I've signed up today searching for something that will help me with my slipping back into my own affair. And honestly, I think the only way for a relationship to ever recover, is to take the road desperado & amp are/have. I'm not saying it always works, but to create that psychological intimacy that I think being supportive and loving can create- Gosh. That would do the trick. Instead, and certainly, please don't attack me (actually, you can if you want) but still certainly, I believe if my partner were to take that approach, it would stop me. Reprimanding or shutting off or attacking. It just doesn't work, if anything, it makes TOM seem safer, more loving, and more appealing in a strange way, as though what you had/have was/is special. I think when you take the more humane loving approach, gosh. Why wouldn't she want to work for that? Once the grieving is over, she'll be so pleased you were so amazing desperado. Goodluck.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Here's an update.

She is totally lost on what she is doing. She does not believe this is an affair of any sort and so far has done nothing wrong other than she has fallen in love with another man. She is upset with me as I have labeled it an EA and so whomever I speak with about it (counselor, concerned family) gets the same idea as I do. I have told her she has built a shield around herself so no one can talk to her rationally about this. She claims this is different, this is real and she just needs space. She is now considering separating so she can work this out. I am at my wits end about how to explain to her what this is. I have a book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Willard Harley, the first 6 chapters would explain a lot to her (I think), but she sees the "A" word and goes beserk. 

Whats going on in her head?


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

One more thing, I think she is talking to him again.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

is the OM single or married. If he is married, out the A to his wife. If it is work related, out her at work.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

He is married but sent his wife packing a month ago. Supposedly, she already knows.


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

desparado said:


> Here's an update.
> 
> She is totally lost on what she is doing. She does not believe this is an affair of any sort and so far has done nothing wrong other than she has fallen in love with another man. She is upset with me as I have labeled it an EA and so whomever I speak with about it (counselor, concerned family) gets the same idea as I do. I have told her she has built a shield around herself so no one can talk to her rationally about this. She claims this is different, this is real and she just needs space. She is now considering separating so she can work this out. I am at my wits end about how to explain to her what this is. I have a book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Willard Harley, the first 6 chapters would explain a lot to her (I think), but she sees the "A" word and goes beserk.
> 
> Whats going on in her head?


She's freaking out when you use the A word because she doesn't want to admit to herself that she is in one. Because the label of "affair" has negative connotations everywhere and she doesn't want that attached to her because of what others will think. She knows she is in the wrong, but probably isn't strong enough to stop.

If she wants space, then she should move out and think about things. Do not let her make you leave the home. If you guys aren't in marriage counseling, now would be a good time to start, even if she's out of the house for a while (weeks, months?). I've been in her shoes, and it's not a good place to be, but if she truly wants to repair her marriage with you, she needs to start taking ownership of what she's done, and then take steps to fix it.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

I am thinking her leaving (w/o kids) would be the best for now. Gives her space and limits disruption with family. I do want her to figure this out. We have a counseling session next week but its more to help her, not so much to help the marriage.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

She is in complete denial that she has done anything wrong. Affair or not she has emotionally connected with another man and she needs to accept that in itself is wrong.. If she demands space I suggest you give it to her and agree with the others that she should leave the home. If she is not strong enough to discontinue contact she will not reconnect with you. Spouses in this situation do often stub their toe but it doesn't mean she can't do it. While this thread started as to how you can help her get past him the dynamics have changed since she is still in contact with him. You will now need to take a stronger stance with her. Be confident and as you interact with her. It might be a good idea to read Dobson's Love Must be Tough but be cautious how you us the concepts. Good luck and be strong during this period.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

desparado said:


> I am thinking her leaving (w/o kids) would be the best for now. Gives her space and limits disruption with family. I do want her to figure this out. We have a counseling session next week but its more to help her, not so much to help the marriage.


I'm so sorry to hear this, Desparado. Individual therapy for yourself might be a good idea, too... Seems to me you've taken care of her emotional needs so much that maybe you've neglected your own.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

I realized that myself. I do have a call into a counselor for me right now, hoping he'll have an opening soon. Thanks for your concern!


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

We had a good weekend, basically because the subject never came up. In fact, we tend to get along real well during those times, albeit more like roommates than husband/wife. I do NOT want her to leave. 

She still has not talked to him on the phone for over a week but he is still texting her daily, sending her 3 - 4 texts to every one of her responses to him. 

She sees her counselor tonight, who is supposedly pro-family, pro-marriage and a strong Christian. I am hopeful the counselor will encourage her to stop ALL communication with him, but I am sure if that recommendation is made, my wife will ask if she should cut off all communication with me too to make it fair (she actually said that to me). My wife stopped talking on the phone to the OM due to my demands, however, she has said she regretted that decision. Any of you that have been to counseling, what do you think the counselors take will be on this? This will only be her second session.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

> Any of you that have been to counseling, what do you think the counselors take will be on this? This will only be her second session.


The counselor will ask her why she feels that not communicating with her husband is an appropriate response in working towards resolving the issue. Any worthwhile counselor is never going to say, "that's a great idea" or "that's incredibly dumb". What they will do, is ask questions that will in turn point you (the person in therapy) towards realizing that something is a 'great idea' or 'really dumb'.

I find your wife's statement telling. She is obviously in pain. And, (this is common) she is trying to influence control over circumstances that have become out of control. She wants to communicate with the other man - and cannot. She knows you want desperately to communicate with her. So in turn, she wants to withold that - to make you suffer as well.
She is still very engaged in the relationship. She will continue to resent you - blame you, and hold you accountable for what has happened for the forseeable future.

Hold on, be strong. It's going to get worse before it gets better.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

She talked to him on the phone for 1-1/2 hours yesterday. 

Counselor did tell her this love she feels for him is high intensity and would not last where the love we share is mature and took 16 years to build. This was the second session. I am hopeful she will be able to get deeper into my wifes mind and help her sort this out for what it really is.

I am encouraged by that but discouraged because she has opened up the phone lines again. That breaks my heart . . . again.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

They often stub their toes in breaking communication but you need to be firm that it is needed in order for the marriage to heal. I like the approach the counselor is taking with this. Good luck and hang on, it's going to be rough for a while.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

The thing is she is still non-commital on wanting to heal the marriage. I have put this in God's hands. I think this counselor is far better than I gave her credit for initially. I did meet her last night but the next few sessions are for my wife only. She is pro-family, and she told my wife her concern is also what's best for our children. 

I would like ask everyone to please send up a prayer for my wife, that God will touch her heart. THANK YOU!


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

desparado said:


> I have put this in God's hands.


I am a man of faith and relied on that faith heavily during the most difficult times. At times faith seemed to be the only thing for me to hang on to. Pray for His guidence and strength as you pass through this time. This is in your hands also.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Update. I think she has decided to leave, will know more after tonight. I do know my kids will not be leaving with her. 

Anyone have any idea what the chances are that she'll be back after she realizes this fantasy is just that, a fantasy? I wonder how long it will take. Keep in mind, she's only seen him once since high school.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Would you be able to take her back if she sleeps with the guy?


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

dobo said:


> Would you be able to take her back if she sleeps with the guy?


Yes, I could forgive her if she came back ready to fully commit to us. Despite the pain, the hurt, all of it. What can I say, I do love her and deep down, I know her and know that this isn't her, this person right now is under an influence she cannot control. She will see the light, one day.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Wow. You're an incredible guy. 

I don't know the answer to your question. My gut says that it isn't likely that she'd come back to you even if he doesn't work out. She has a taste of something that she wants and if she can't get it from him she'll find it elsewhere. She doesn't think you can provide it anymore.

It would be best if you detach from her and let her know that she's going it alone. You can stil take her back later, but she'll have to go this route without your help or support.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Evidentally, not incredible enough.

I know detachment is best. Making my kids and myself the priority is where I need to be. I was there last week, got caught up in her again this week. Its very hard to let go of something you want, need and desire so badly. I am eat up with it.


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## FriedEgg (Oct 28, 2009)

Desperado, I feel for you, man. What the others have said about your reaction to your wife's actions is true: You are handling this better than 95% of men would. I hope you take some comfort in that...knowing that you are a good person.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

I need some advice. My wife is still home with me (thank God). She is still struggling with this decision of whether to leave or not. She promises she still loves me and that I have done nothing to cause this. She still does not truly understand her feelings for this other person, other than to know she cannot fathom never having contact with him.

Her own family has been very blunt with her in regards to their feelings, to the point of threatening to end communication with her if she continues. This has alienated her and pushed her closer to the OM. Some mornings, we talk, and I see that person I know and love come out of the fog, ever so slightly, but enough to know she's still in there. But I have to go to work and by the time I return, she has been in contact with OM and its as if our conversation never happened. She just doesn't see how bad this is. 

How can I get through to her? She even admits she doesn't really know the guy, that phone calls and texts don't prove compatibility. But she is willing to destroy our family as a result of it. She is so blind to the fact that this is sending me and her entire extended family into a depression.

I've tried the Divorce Remedy techniques and they don't seem to have much effect. She is walking a very thin line right now with so much in the balance. What is it going to take to shake her up?


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Lost,

Thank you for posting! Earlier today, I was reading the messages you sent me a month ago. At the time, she was not willing to even read anything so I was never able to share your story with her. I think things are a little different now and she may be more receptive.

I am planning to read parts of Dr. Harley's book "Surviving an Affair" then read your messages to me also. They speak volumes as to how her situation is not as unique as she thinks. Thank you for the letter you posted. I am very close to being at that point. I have to set some major league boundaries before I lose myself. I have to stand up and fight for me, for my kids and for my marriage. I do not want to have any regrets if this does end in divorce. I want to be able to hold my head up and know I did all I could do.

Even nearly 2 months after the reveal, I still find myself in a state of shock. I still love her, still want to live forever with her and am still willing to forgive all. But now I know, I can't continue like this. Its not good for any of us. If she can't make this decision herself, I will make it for her.


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## Lostandconfused (Jul 6, 2009)

Desparado,

You are very welcome. If there's anything I can do or offer from my experiences, please let me know.

As I read any post on this board surrounding infidelity, I ache for the poster. It's such a personal decision weighed down and muddled by emotions and pain. No-one can answer for anyone else, imo.

Praying,
Lost


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

I am approaching end-game for myself in this relationship. What is the consensus of the folks on this forum regarding contacting the spouse and in-laws of the OM? He tells my wife that his current wife is an alcoholic and absentee mother and he has sent her packing back in July, however, according to court records, they have not yet filed any papers to date. I am thinking full exposure.

I need to rock HIS boat for a change. Any suggestions?


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## Lostandconfused (Jul 6, 2009)

Desparado,

If you are asking if I would personally do this, I would have to say no. I'm not saying it's wrong or right. I'm just saying for me, it wouldn't be what I would do.

I can understand wanting to expose him to the world but ...

I would always ask myself what innocent person would I hurt with that truth?

What benefit would I truly receive from doing this other than being vindictive?

Again, this is just my $0.02.

Best of luck figuring out what you want/need to do,
Lost


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

You are right, as usual Lost. As I still have problems sleeping, I wake up very early every morning and my mind goes crazy with these thoughts, even with her right there beside me. Yes, this is vengence, I am above that. She needs to see me for me. I still have my integrity in all this and I will maintain it as long as I can.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I emphathize and have been though this unsuccessfully. All you can do is state your boundaries and outline what YOU are going to do if the boundary is crossed. Be carefully about stating any of your own feelings, because she isn't open to hearing them right now. Loving, firm and detached.

The first boundary may be: No contact with OM or I'll need to initiate a separation. 

This is a baby steps situation. The first one is No Contact. Once she commits to that you have a chance to move forward.

So sorry you have to go through this. Life is messy.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

PS: Understand that if she does move out, it will almost certainly become a PA, if it's not already. You should prepare yourself emotionally.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

I've been dealing with this for over 2 months now. Its hard to be patient when its right in your face. I keep hoping with time this EA will implode by itself and perhaps it still will.

I am a take control kind of person and this has not been easy to say the least. I want to set some boundaries for my own sanity, however, I don't want to push her to make a bad decision when given a little more time, she might "see the light" on her own. I am also concerned that there won't be much of a relationship for us to save if this continues. My efforts to detach do not seem to have much effect on her.

I have such swings still from one extreme to the other, anger to love, vengeful to supportive. This is pure h*ll.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

The thing you're having to learn is that you can't control her, only yourself. I can tell you that it's maddening to try to modify your behavior to try to get her to act a certain way. I found it soul destroying to try and act different ways to get her to come out of the affair fog, because there is no way of knowing if what you are doing will work. Sometimes tough love pushes them to see the light, sometimes gentle patience does it, but how can you know?

For me, I decided that I needed to act for my own safety rather than try to guess what she needed to move back into the relationship. We are currently separated for the 2nd time, and likely going to divorce. (So my strategy didn't exactly work to save the marriage.)

It's all hard, and it will be hard no matter what happens.

I'm 2+ years out from when it started. No longer h*ll, but still very difficult at times.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

seeking sanity said:


> Sometimes tough love pushes them to see the light, sometimes gentle patience does it, but how can you know?


:iagree:
Excellent point SS. It is a hard path to walk between the two. In my case I used what I would call LMBT-Lite. It helped me get my confidence back and she saw that. My confidence was one of the traits that attracted her to me in the first place. But along with the LMBT there was a lot of patience and waiting for her to come around. Eventually she came out of the fog.


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## Lostandconfused (Jul 6, 2009)

Well, I for one, would really like to hear how things are going. If you get a chance Desparado, please give us an update.

Thanks much,
Lost


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Update. Right now we are getting along but not discussing elephant in room. 

I am feeling less and less attracted to this woman every day. She just isn't the same person anymore, the person she is morphing into is not who she was and I don't really like her. She continues to have what seems to be unceasing contact with this other person. My kids are suffering as well as she is leaving them alone for long periods of time inside the house while she goes outside to talk and text, then yells at them when she comes back in for whatever mischief they did while unsupervised. Completely unfair to them. I grow very tired of trying to act normal, like nothing is going on. I am trying to decide if she is really worth fighting for anymore.

I have been making some plans, mostly involving scenarios as to what is next for the kids and myself, with or without her. I am also reasoning out a deadline for myself, that this is as far as I can take this. Trying not to put in the middle of holidays though as I don't want my kids to have that kind of memory everytime T-Giving or Christmas comes around.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

I'd be interested to know what results others have had after exposing the affair to the OM spouse and in laws. According to my wife, the OM's spouse knows all about her but that could be a lie too. It is definitely something I am considering.


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## Dancing Nancie (Jul 1, 2008)

desparado said:


> I'd be interested to know what results others have had after exposing the affair to the OM spouse and in laws. According to my wife, the OM's spouse knows all about her but that could be a lie too. It is definitely something I am considering.


I think there can be some good from exposing the affair. The affair is based on fantasy, and when the fantasy is pulled out and the reality of the situation is brought to light it isn't nearly as fun. He has fed her a line, and she has bought it. She is so far in the fog that she can't see how she got there, nor how to get out. I for one think this is a situation that exposing the affair can be a good thing. As long as you are not being vindictive, but bring light to a situation that is dark in lies and deceit. 

You will encounter an initial backlash though, you will have to take that into consideration before making this choice. If she thinks they are divorced and they are not, then he is lying to her. In her mind she thinks that they could be together if she left. In reality, he is still married, and his wife may have no clue what's going on. I think I would expose if I were in your shoes. That said, my wife has had an EA and I did not expose and let it takes it course. My wife did come back around much sooner than yours has. If it had drug on like your situation, I would have exposed where you are now.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

I am discovering that I am a weak little man. I vascillate between being strong and confident and ready to move on to being weak and full of self pity for myself. I go from wanting to kick her out to just doing whatever I can to make her happy and give her time, in a matter of a few minutes. 

My mind is a confused mess. I need someone to slap me with a good 2x4.


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## Lostandconfused (Jul 6, 2009)

Desparado,

You're actually doing very well! This is completely normal as you have two sets of emotions (okay, probably more than that but those are the primary ones) warring inside of you. One that is angry and ready to defend yourself and make her see sense and the other that is hurting and wanting reassurance that all will be well.

Hang in there! I'm finding this pendumlum (for lack of a better word) is where I'm at too. Some days very good and I'm easy going and can forgive and love and other days I feel like I'm ready to scream because I just don't believe a word he says.

At some point, you'll come to the realization that we talked about before. You'll KNOW when you have had all that you can take and you'll be ready to move on, either with her (without the OM) or without her and leave her to her own devices.

I know it's rough! Believe me, I think we all know! This is horrible on the emotions, on the self-esteem, on the rationale human being we all thought we were. You're NOT alone! You can do this! You'll not only survive it, you'll thrive at some point down the road. You can't see it but it's there.

Still praying, and praying some more,
Lost


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## noideato20 (Oct 27, 2009)

Desparado. You are doing one of the hardest things there is to do. Same situation as mine trying to hold on keep quiet through the holidays for the kids. While spouse is on the phone which hes inseperable from getting encouragement and who knows what else from the other w. I swear I think Ive aged ten years in the last month... You keep keeping on . So far you have the patience most people dream of having. I say your on a totally different level than her. If the shoe were on the other foot how do you think she would deal?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Update! Exposed EA to OM's mother-in-law. She was full of information about OM being an alcoholic, a wife-beater, a liar and an ego maniac. She said this was a pattern for OM, this is how he ended up marrying her daughter. My W is talking to her now, this could be the turn we needed. Please pray!


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## cowboyfan (Nov 15, 2009)

LuvMyH said:


> I unknowingly exposed my H's affair to the OW's inlaws and spouse by calling a number I found in his wallet. All contact between them ceased right then. I put the pieces of the puzzle together much later and now realize he was grieving the end for a few months,during which he was terribly hateful to me. ( I had been faithful, but hateful towards him for a long time before it happened) Once the dust settled, we rediscovered each other and fell in love again. So, I don't know, but maybe exposing it was a good thing?
> BTW, this was a PA,as well as an EA.


Very cool, I'm going through something similar right now and pray that confronting it as I did a couple weeks ago actually makes us stronger. I know she's feeling a lot of guilt right now, and she's coping just as I am. I've NEVER been on an emotional roller coaster like this before and am not one to communicate my feelings very well, but I'm intentionally overdoing it with her right now so she knows where I'm coming from and knows how much she means to me. Been a tough year!


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

As of Sunday, she has stopped all communication with OM. She is in withdrawal big-time but the fog hasn't lifted yet. I am cautiously optimistic. I was at this point nearly 2 months ago, but the circumstances were completely different, I asked her then, this time, the information on the OM was very negative and came from a credible source. She admits she still has feelings for him, but would never be able to subject herself or especially our kids to that type of lifestyle, plus there were a lot of lies and betrayal that she is trying to process.

Any tips on what I need to be doing? I am trying to meet whatever emotional needs she has and I am avoiding any and all talk about our relationship. That will come.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

She will be hurt and maybe resentful of you for your hand in her ending communications. This is normal and expect it to take some time for her to get passed it. It is also likely and hopeful that she will now really realize what has happened and will feel remorse. I watched my wife pass through all these phases. Support her as best you can, listen to her when she is ready to talk and make sure your needs in the marriage are clear to her. From my own experience an EA can take months for the spouse to really get over. Concentrate on the things you feel you both need to do to make the marriage stronger and happier but give her a bit of time for now. This can recover and her ending all contact is the only way it can have a chance. Good luck and thanks for the update.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Something I'd expect is for her to begin to question her own judgement after having been duped by this guy. She may end up being very confused about what is real, in a variety of aspects of her life.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

I felt like some progress had been made yesterday. We had more conversation (she initiated) than we have had in months, just shooting the breeze, yesterday morning. Last night, when I got home, things were completely different. As I had suspected, they had contacted each other "one last time" to say the official goodbyes. She doesn't want me to block his number on the cell account but can't explain why. Am I rushing? Why do I feel like this is not over yet? 

I know she needs time, but I also need some assurance that no contact is made, either way. I don't want to rock the boat here since it was just refloated 2 days ago.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

She wants him to be able to contact her. She in some way, hopes that he will. That's why she doesn't want the number blocked. She wants to KNOW that he's tried whether she returns contact or not.

This is not over, you are right.

I believe you should block his number. If she's moving along OK and he tries to ring her, it will set her back to the beginning. No contact always goes back to time zero when contact is made and the pain begins again.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I agree. This isn't over. 

The thing you'll need to decide for yourself is how long you can hang in there before the cost to your self-esteem is higher than the value of being married. How many breeches of No Contact will be a deal breaker for you. This is a silent question for you to dwell on.

Not to be alarming, but at some point she'll need to get back into the relationship. That means transparency, no contact, no lies, and a recommitment. It may take a few months for her to get to that point. Just be careful.


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## Dancing Nancie (Jul 1, 2008)

I think it will take several months, and a few falls off the wagon before there is no contact at all. Think of it as a smoker trying to quit smoking. There will be a few times they go back for the smoke, and all you can do is be supportive when they do. It's the beginning of a very long and difficult road for you.


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## Tweak (Nov 18, 2009)

I have read this whole post.
I am sad for you OP.

As a man,it is soooooo hard to refrain from giving tough guy advise.

I know being a Christian and trying to do what is right can conflict with the Human Animal at times.

I feel that I would not have the strength that the OP has had.

If I was the OP,I would probably have already "visited" this guy and let him know I am a "man who cares" about my wife.
Of coarse after the visit,he would probably try calling the wife from the Hospital.She would then get upset about our little "visit".Also the distinct possibility of Jail.
See I have a VERY dominant personality.Also a very strong temper.

I guess everyone is very different in this department.

I do however applaud your disclosure of this affair to the jerks family.His family has the right to know what a slime ball he is.
If he is still married,his wife is probably going through heck to.


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## beni (Nov 23, 2009)

hi, i forward you here my reply to other similar thread with hope that you can know more about the thoughts of cheaters:

i wonder why dont you guys read the story from the cheaters to answer your questions. well i'm a cheater wife and i will tell you how i feel between my husband Fred and the other guy Ben. i like Ben and i love the excitements in sex with him, and its very comfortable to talk with him about everything, but i always know it not gonna last, it can never work to be in a relationship with him. and i still always love my husband Fred, the only thing keep me seeing Ben again and again just are the exciting feelings in bed, which is very different with marriage' sex. but then when i have to make a choice, of course i have chose my husband, because we love each other so much and we have a perfect life together, i would not distroy it for a man that i know it wont work. and since i made the decision, i really need my husband's help to recover the pain and to get this guy out of my mind, it is really like quitting a drug. well i didnt have the damn gut to tell Fred about my affair, but he is really the huge role to help me out of this trouble, to be in his arms and show me his love would make me feel safe and try to stop thinking about Ben. it was just 1 week since im stop seeing Ben, so it still new though, but i really feel much better each day now and i really believe i can get Ben out of my mind 1 day soon, just need some more time, just need to have Fred's love with me always...
so, that might also be your wife's thought since she chose you, because she just know that you are the best for her, so please give her a chance, please help her to get back to your life, because she is trying very hard now to get out of this mess and she need your help, she will have some weak moments so you will need to be there to stop her doing stupid things, i'm trying my best right now and i believe so do your wife, so please help her...
if you want to read more about my story, its here:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/9392-anyone-here-have-affair-like-me.html

after all, i really hope it can help
cheers


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

I need some help guys. Its been nearly 5 months since NC. My wife tells me she is extremely unhappy with where we live, to the point that she does not want to really work on our relationship until we can move to a better place physically. (We live in a rural area, she grew up in the city). We have had financial issues for years to the point that we really can't move right now. I have recently gotten a very nice promotion at my job that in the long run, should allow us to restore our credit and hopefully be able to move in a year or so, but right now, there's no way. She would really like to move back closer to her aging parents and siblings, which by the way is in the same state (and nearby to) the OM.

I am still trying to be the loving, supportive husband, but she appears so miserable and blames it all on where we live. She has never been a "housekeeper" but for the last 9 months or so, she has done absolutely nothing to contribute to cleaning the house, cook or even do the laundry. The time she used to spend talking to the OM, she now spends surfing Facebook or talking to a girlfriend. She is home with my kids all day, its a small house, so I can understand some of her frustration, but I would hope she could find a way to cope. I am currently doing what I can, basically keeping the dishes washed adn the clothes cleaned but I can't keep up with the kids rooms and toys and the rest of the housework. I am hoping this is just due to her depression.

I have checked, she is not talking the OM on FB or any other way that I have found so I don't think that is an issue right now, but her showing me affection, at times, feels forced on her end. I guess I just thought things would start feeling more "normal" by now. Am I just not giving it enough time? I know she is still coming out of the fog and I don't want to be impatient.

This lady is my everything, I have a chance to keep her and I don't want to blow it. Can any of you "oldtimers" out there with experience give me some advice? Thanks!!!


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

desparado said:


> but her showing me affection, at times, feels forced on her end. I guess I just thought things would start feeling more "normal" by now.


Please expand on any progress you have made as a couple since last fall.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Thanks Amp, here's a synopsis:

In November, I exposed everything to the OM's MIL who filled both me and my wife in on a lot of things, exposing the lies the OM was telling. Although she discounted a lot of what the woman said to her, my wife knew there had to be some truth to what she said and decided then and there she could not expose our children to this person and that lifestyle so she made her decision to stay with me, regardless of her "feelings". She did contact him a couple of times after that in an effort to "set the record straight" but since then, there has been no contact. 

We have taken a couple of trips together early on to reconnect and things went pretty well, real well as a matter of fact. But as time has gone on, she has gone deep into withdrawal and depression. Our financial situation has been pretty bad for the last few years and that deepened heavily when she stopped working last summer. Due to a promotion, I now make enough to cover what she brought in, but have a large financial hole to fill up as a result of all the months of being behind, therefore our credit has taken a hit.

Our relationship is okay. We are intimate 1 - 2 times a week, we tell each other "I Love You" but I am usually the one that initiates any of it. When we can spend time together away from home, things seem to be relaxed and we can have some fun. We have had a few date nights, some went well and others didn't when the conversation turned to past events or our current living situation. We are a family of 5 in a small house in a small town, we moved here to be nearer to my family, who have all but died away now and those that are left are not that social. She wants to be closer to her family, wants me to find a new job there so we can move. I am reluctant to do that as it puts her in the same general area as OM. (Yes I have trust issues). She remains unhappy, blaming it on the living situation but at the same time, she is not nearly as "loving" to me as she was even a year ago before all this began. She didn't want to go to a marriage conference last month saying she didn't really want to work on us until we moved and could be happy with our physical location. I don't really know how to take that.

I know that is a scatterload of information and there are a lot of areas I would like to explore with someone, but I mainly just need some advice on what to do.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

She is still playing the entitlement game. She was entitled to the affair, now she is entitled to treat you with disdain, because you have a small house. WTF. 6 million people have lost their homes and 8 million people have lost their jobs. Over 1.5 million households have vanished. That means that they are now living with other families. I am sorry if this sounds harsh. But your wife has nothing to complain about. A husband that loves her (even after committing adultery) who recently was promoted, a roof over head, food on the table. If her choice is to not repair your marriage because of where you live, what happens when she is dissatisfied with some other aspect of her life? Tell her "what is.....is". This is our life, no one is twisting your arm. I want you to be happy. But if its not with me and the kids. Then go find someplace to be happy". This may not be what you want to hear. But its my opinion.


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## Luvmybabe (Mar 6, 2010)

Good info Initfortheduration!!!!


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Well, there is some improvement but certainly not enough. The marriage and your wife certainly have some work to do. I would tend to agree that she may be suffering from depression. Sitting at the computer all day on social sites is a retreat from reality. Despite the many contacts and activities cyberspace can be a very lonely place. If she has recognized that TOM is a creep and has kept her promise of NC then that's a huge plus.

I agree with Infor that the dissatisfaction with the home situation is smoke. Home is where you make it and given the current economic conditions now is not the time to pull up stakes and move. There could be a combination of the living situation, a continuing feeling of loss with the end of the EA, still feeling disconnected from you and the marriage or a lack of self worth.

If it were me this is what I would try.

You've stated you do better when the two of you spend time away together. Build on that and try and do it more often. 

While she my never have been the "best housekeeper" she needs to pull her weight and doing so might make her feel better. Discuss the situation and try to get her to commit to some specific duties. If she can do that she might get a sense of accomplishment and feel better about herself.

Get her socially involved. She needs to develop relationships outside of cyberspace. Get out to school or church functions. Get involved in a club or something you may meet regularly with some of the same people. Both as a couple or family. Our kids are all jocks and some of the closest friends we have we met at soccer, basketball....games and practices. Get her out of the house and away from the computer.

Finally I would try and get her to go to individual counseling. She is not on a healthy path right now and needs some help to feel better about her life. 

Good luck with it all, it's a tough journey. It has taken my wife and I 3 years to get to the point we are now, but we both agree the work was worth it as we are happier in our marriage than we have been in years. Good luck.


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## blueyes (Mar 25, 2010)

I have read most of these threads, I'm very sorry for the state your in. I was in the same state as your wife sort of, my husband ignored me for the last 15 yrs and drank. I tried pretty much everything to get things better but nothing worked, I finally got into an EA with a man I've known for aout 10yrs. We have always been attracted to each other but never acted on it. I needed someone to talk too, see I was told in Sept I might have cancer and my husband just decided to get drunk instead of being there for me. So my friend was there for me and I didn't care anymore I had had enough,anyways the rest is history. Things r alot better now, I told my husband everything it woke him up, we r on our way back to each other. I think your wife needs to get help for depression, I did the exact same thin with the house and everything but I used to be the only one doing everything so I went on strike because I was leaving anyways. The last posting from Amplexor is right on the money. Listen to him, we have done pretty much everything that he has told u to do and we r on our way back together. A couple of the other guys on here I don't think I would be listening to much to them, they can't get past the pain, hurt and r very bitter still. I do agree though that she needs help and she needs to be doing things around the house and if she can't then maybe it's time to get tough and ask her if she needs to leave or tell her. Its time to get her life in order one way or another. Get over things when times r tough with the economy she will have to wait a bit to move, she should understand that. As long as u r being supportive and showing her love and emotions,(talking to her about your feelings) it should work out. Good luck let me know.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Well, now I think it is all coming out. Her main issue is not the marriage, it is financial. She does love me, I know that. What she wants is a life her parents never had. One she thought she was getting when we married (and she did), its just with the last few years, a series of events and bad decisions (which were jointly made, although she now says she only went along with it because she thought it would make me happy) have caused us to be in the financial situation we are in. We are "stuck" until we can crawl out of this and she is losing patience. The OM was a liar of the 10th degree, promising all kinds of $$$ and the good life, all the while he was having his own house foreclosed on and telling lie after lie. I think once she realized what she would really be trading for (a broke, lying, ego maniac), a little of the fog lifted, but it only revealed this other side of her I wasn't expecting.

She wants what any girl wants, to be loved, cherished and to be able to live comfortably. She's not a materialistic person, but just wants to be able to not have to worry from paycheck to paycheck.

The problem I have is she has reached her limit and has withdrawn, expecting me to rectify the situation immediately. I now feel up against the wall trying to frantically find a way to eliminate all the debt and give her what she wants. I have started the Dave Ramsey FPU series, hoping that will help but she just doesn't want to be a part of the finances, she wants me to handle it. In the meantime, she's just wallowing in her own self pity. With little comments here and there like watching a plane overhead and saying "I wish I were on it, leaving this place".

I have gotten us back in church, I hope beyond hope that something will click for her, reminding her of what she needs to be doing (and feel some remorse or guilt for what she has done). She doesn't even mention the events of last fall. It's as if that period of her life never happened. 

Do I need to return to the "Plan A" style (Dr. Harley) of living instead of trying to build on the relationship as I have been doing? I have managed to get myself back in the depressed mode and earlier this week I felt as low as I had felt back in the fall. Not a place I want to return to. I feel like I am the one being tested now, although I was not the one that strayed.

Amp, thanks for the input, I have a two week business trip scheduled next month and can take her if she will go, but she is very reluctant to leave the kids. Please send up a prayer for us that she will see the wisdom in getting away and spending that time with me.

You guys have been a great source of help and encouragment to me through all of this. I appreciate any advice you can offer.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Hi desparado! Two important quotes in your last post (out of order on purpose...)



> Do I need to return to the "Plan A" style (Dr. Harley) of living instead of trying to build on the relationship as I have been doing? I have managed to get myself back in the depressed mode and earlier this week I felt as low as I had felt back in the fall. Not a place I want to return to. I feel like I am the one being tested now, although I was not the one that strayed.


First off, how is doing a Plan A different from trying to build a relationship? In a Plan A, you take extreme care to provide the love your wife needs, while actively removing the things that dampen or destroy her love... Should that not ALWAYS be how you approach your marriage? Plan A is designed to start you on the road to building a stronger marriage by building the habits that should be second nature to you - and it should never stop! 

What part of Plan A did you stop? Did you start Busting her Love again? Did you decide you'd had enough of filling her emotional needs? 

By ALL means, keep doing Plan A, until it becomes the normal way you treat your wife.

If you have STOPPED doing the Plan A, then by ALL means you are being 'tested' - your wife senses that you are no longer trying to love her, etc. You wrote earlier that you 'tell her you love her' etc. 

But you need to go beyond the words. You need to go into the ACTIONS.

What are your wife's most important emotional needs? 

What are the primary love busters you contribute to your marriage?

THIS is the stuff you need to be working on to save your marriage (at the present you are in the HIGH DANGER portion of the Advanced Affair Warning System.)



> I have gotten us back in church, I hope beyond hope that something will click for her, reminding her of what she needs to be doing (and feel some remorse or guilt for what she has done). She doesn't even mention the events of last fall. It's as if that period of her life never happened.


She may not mention the events! Many people like to avoid thinking about unpleasant events. Do you mention them?

However: _You are taking your wife to church because she 'needs to feel some remorse or guilt for what she has done'?_ 

Let me be very clear here. If she loves you at all, she DOES feel remorse and guilt. It's quite possible that her personality type does not voice these things clearly. If there is no love, it is doubtful that she will feel either. 

But in any event - spending your time trying to make her feel remorse or guilt has negative consequences. People do not fall in love because they feel guilt. 

I see this as an example of what I say over and over: it is NOT enough to simply 'return' to a marriage. You must also work on 'recovery' - which involves getting over the pain of the affair, etc. But you must also move beyond recovery - you must work with all intent (rationally, deliberately) at creating a marriage in which an affair is not likely to happen.

Analogy: Suppose you go to a good restaurant and eat a great meal. You are full, satisfied and pleased with the meal. When you leave the restaurant, you pass another one that also serves great food. But you've already eaten - you are satisfied! What are the chances you are going to head into that OTHER restaurant to eat another meal???

A good marriage is like that - each partner keeps the other one fulfilled so that the temptation to stray is minimized. And to do any 'fulfilling' you need to know what needs to be done. It does not happen magically.

----------------
Now playing: Mediaeval Baebes - World Fareth as a Fantasye
via FoxyTunes


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Thank you for responding Tanerlornpete,

I guess I have not stopped Plan A. I still do all I can to meet her needs. I try to avoid the negative actions and talk, but there are times I just need to hear certain things from her. I have gotten extremely frustrated that after 5 months of this, she just doesn't initiate anything with me. This week started out very rough, she spent time thinking about things and hit me with it one evening and it was like we were back at square one. I just thought there would be more progress than this. She blames it on me and my handling of our finances (which has always actually been a joint issue until all this broke loose last year). In the middle of our "discussion" I asked her if she loves me, she said "of course I do". I know I shouldn't have, I shouldn't expect anything back, but for how much longer? 

I do the laundry, the dishes, the groceries, I put gas in her car, and occasionally, after I do the stuff I need to do, I try to occupy our children so she can have a break from them (she is a stay-at-home Mom who Homeschools). After they are in bed, I give her massages, run her bath, etc. Frankly, I wish I had someone do all these things for me (and I never have). But after all of it, its almost like its expected. The "fulfilling" is all one way. Again, hurtful and frustrating. So I brought that up the other night, she said things would be better and she would be happier if we were to move to a new city, a new house, immediately. She said if she tries to work on 'US' while we are in this place that she resents, then she's afraid she will start to resent me also. 

I just want to get it right. We are going to church again to get closer to God. I need it, she needs it, my kids need it, its been way too long. What I mean't before was that this type behavior does not match the behavior of someone who truly has the love of God in their heart (not trying to get all religious here, but wanting to get the point out). The way she used to think and act is nothing like this. She is a different person, right down to the music she listens to. (Used to be all Christian Contemporary, now its Country). She uses foul language in front of the kids, too. She never, ever did that before. This creep she was talking to has corrupted her and I just want the real her to come back. My kids have noticed the difference too. She would have never approved of what she has become. Her family is completely flabberghasted by what they see and are very worried. She has put them (and me) all in a place to where whatever we say or do regarding her and her feelings, is wrong. She believes she is the victim in all this and no one should blame her for any of this. Yet at the same time, she gives relationship advice to a friend of hers, how ironic. If she would just listen to the same advice she gives and apply to herself.

I just need some direction, some way to help bring her around, but moving right now is just next to impossible financially, therefore, I am feeling beaten and frantic.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Desparado~

I realize I'm coming in a little late here but a couple things stood out to me so I hope you'll hear me out. 

Just based on the little bit I read here on this thread, it seems to me that one of your wife's #1 TOP LOVE KINDLERS is financial commitment. This doesn't mean she's materialistic--but rather that secure feeling like "we'll be okay financially and kids and I won't be in a position of being hungry or having to do without." This is a very common love kindler, and it sounds like right now that is shakey at best. So when someone is not having one of their TOP love kindlers met, it can easily and fairly quickly lead to loss of love if the other top two or three aren't being met. 

So far I have not yet heard you say, indicate or imply what your wife's other top kindlers might be. But I do hear that you say you "give her a break from the kids" and you "give her massages" and "rub her back" .... yet those things don't seem to kindle love in her. Thus, my guess is twofold: a) those affectionate things are not her love language and not what she needs, and b) you don't "give" them to her lovingly, you give them with the expectation of getting something back. SOOOOO... your *very top priority right now* is to find out your wife's TOP FOUR LOVE KINDLERS (aka Emotional Needs by Harley), and start meeting her needs her way. Not your needs...and not your way. A very close second behind that is to stop giving to her with the expectation of receiving. Either GIVE to her out of the joy of your heart with nothing attached, or don't give it to her. 

Next, you note she wants to move away from the rural town where she spends 90% of her time alone at home with the kids, to a city nearer her relatives. You note that she spends her days on Facebook or yakking with friends online. This sounds to me like maybe she is an Extrovert person and you are making/asking/requiring her to live an Introvert lifestyle. Maybe part of the reason she wants to move closer is so she can have friends and a social life...and this threatens you. So I would suggest that you two BOTH do this Jung Myers-Briggs Personality Test and learn about your personalities. If she is an Extrovert, as I suspect, and you continue to have her cut off from the outside world and people, she will leave you--I guarantee it. If she's an Extrovert, and you're Introverted, you can maybe help BOTH of you by learning how to have a little more involved social life. This would help her feel happier and would help you become a better human being by expanding your horizons. So for example, go to the couples' dinners at church--invite people over for a dinner party--and on the occasion go to a show or a play with another couple. Those are SOCIAL but also very married activities. 

Finally, I note at the end of your last post that you're sort of saying, "I just want my old wife back." Desperado, I respect you too much to not tell you the absolutely TRUTH even though it's going to hurt. That "old wife" no longer exists and is an illusion from your past. What you want is the old illusion you had of what you thought your wife was. Well, good or bad, the affair changed things. YOU are not the naive, trusting, immature man you used to be. From this point forward the woman you are going to have and the marriage you are going to have is ALL NEW and it is not ever, EVER going to be "like it was." So I would encourage you to let go of chasing that illusion and face reality: things have changed, you have changed, your wife has changed, and your marriage has changed.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

I can understand your frustration and that you might want your old wife back. And - to a certain extent she will return - but there will be some changes...won't be exactly the same woman. Actually, you don't want that old marriage back anyway...you want a New and Improved one.

I am glad you didn't abandon Plan A - in the absence of an affair, it should be the _modus operandi_ of a normal marriage. 

Question for you: what are your wife's top 4 emotional needs - well - maybe the other 3 besides Financial Stability...

Has SHE taken these quizzes?

My advice for you is to get the kids to sleep one night and the sit with her, look her in the eyes, and talk all of your fears, concerns and worries over. Tell her that you want to make your marriage work, that you love her and consider her your best friend. Tell her you would whisk her away to "New York City" to live forever if you could - and that you are working on ways to accomplish that - and that you need her help and advice on how to accomplish this. Let her know as well that you are scared that things are returning to the way they were - and you DON'T want that to happen. Ask for her help in solving these problems - tell her you are not sure how to do it by yourself.

Also - are you familiar with the Love Dare site? Might be a HUGE step forward for your marriage.

----------------
Now playing: Oscar López - Forgive Me [Perdóname]
via FoxyTunes


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Thanks for that advice guys. You are right about the personality types, I am more introverted and she is definitely extroverted, however, I have never restricted her from having friends and searching for them. It was with my blind naivety and a healthy dose of trust that I encouraged her to respond to the old high school flame to begin with. The FB thing bothers me more because she uses her time there instead of tending to my children or some, even a little, housework. I have always wanted her to have friends.

As to the Emotional Needs, we both took the questionaire on the 5 love languages, her #1 is touch (mine too). And trust me, I am not doing any of this looking for a reward or anything, it is truly because I love this woman and I want to show her I love her in every way I can. 

This financial issue is a biggie and yes I feel the stress from it too and want to move to the city myself, just not necessarily the same state as the OM, at least not until we can get our marriage back on solid ground, and honestly I don't know that he is much of a threat anymore anyway, but why tempt it.

I realize that nothing will be the same, for any of us, that ship has sailed. So my goal is to make sure I do all I can to make this stage of our marriage the beginning of the best years of our lives. She has always been my favorite part of life, she IS my best friend and I love her more than life itself, its just my rock was shaken a few months back and this is a feeling I don't deal with well. Except for God, my wife was the only person I knew I could count on all these years. I never saw this coming until it happened. As a result, I am still working on picking up the pieces and putting things back together. I just need a road map to follow.

I bought the Love Dare book last fall when this all broke loose. Now may be the perfect time to put it in motion.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

desparado said:


> Thanks for that advice guys. You are right about the personality types, I am more introverted and she is definitely extroverted, however, I have never restricted her from having friends and searching for them. It was with my blind naivety and a healthy dose of trust that I encouraged her to respond to the old high school flame to begin with. The FB thing bothers me more because she uses her time there instead of tending to my children or some, even a little, housework. I have always wanted her to have friends.


desparado~ Bear in mind that being an extrovert does not mean you get to "encourage her to have friends." Being an extrovert is like breathing to her...it is a statement of the way she IS and her state of being. She IS an extrovert and as such likes to be social and her interests mostly lie with things beyond him/herself, such as other people and the physical environment. Extroverts are not as concerned with themselves and thus do not turn inward and focus on internal thoughts or feelings. Extroverted people are often emotional, impulsive (doing something suddenly based on an urge), confident about themselves in social situations, and involved in the lives of others. (Extrovert- comes from the Latin word "extra" meaning "outside of," and the Latin word "vertere" meaning "to turn." Put the two words together and you get "to turn outside of.") 

Thus it's like saying she is tall--she just IS; you can't encourage her to be tall.  However, for her to recharge her internal energy battery (so to speak) she needs contact with people or environment outside herself. One of the people she could have regular, intimate contact with is YOU and no I don't mean just sex. I mean, you could be her deepest, closest friend and confidante. But chances are really good you won't be her only contact, so work together to find ways for her to recharge her battery that are also simultaneously pro-marriage and mutually agreeable (for example, she can have all the lady friends she wants, and any male friends need to be married and be male friends whom you look at, talk to, and approve). My Dear Hubby and I keep our FB pages completely open to each other and he knows of the men I have on my page and why (we are in a gaming guild...they are categorized under that game; we have marriage/affair clients...HE talks to the men usually etc.)



> As to the Emotional Needs, we both took the questionaire on the 5 love languages, her #1 is touch (mine too). And trust me, I am not doing any of this looking for a reward or anything, it is truly because I love this woman and I want to show her I love her in every way I can.


Actually the Love Languages, Emotional Needs, and Love Kindlers are all three different things. Here are all of the different questionnairs:

Love Languages
Emotional Needs
Love Kindlers

Love Languages is the way in which a person "hears" or "feels" love--is it through actions or gifts or touch? What communicates it to them? But Emotional Needs and Love Kindlers are more like the areas that your spouse needs in order to feel loved. Now I say this knowing that a person doesn't turn to their spouse to "complete them" but rather there are some things that one person needs to feel loved and another person doesn't need them at all. A good example is financial security. I personally am perfectly capable of providing for myself and caring for my own finances so I've never really needed my financial security because I'm self-sufficient that way! But I very much so need Admiration/Appreciation. I always tell people if you tell me what I did well, what you appreciated, or what you enjoyed I will follow you like a puppy forever! So I could hear a "financial security" guy saying about me "I worked hard for her and gave her all the money and a good home with no bills ... and she said she didn't feel loved!" Yeah--that's cuz it's not a need of mine. You never once praised me or appreciated me or said out loud what I did that you liked! (Get it?)



> This financial issue is a biggie and yes I feel the stress from it too and want to move to the city myself, just not necessarily the same state as the OM, at least not until we can get our marriage back on solid ground, and honestly I don't know that he is much of a threat anymore anyway, but why tempt it.


But here's what I hear. She says, "I'm not getting the marriage on track until we move" and you say "I'm not moving until we get the marriage on track." So it's like a stalemate and no one is moving or getting the marriage on track! Thus I suggest that you two declare that a MUU is needed.  A MUU is a Mutually United Understanding. That's where you two agree that you will do nothing until you have come to an understanding that you can both feel enthusiastic about (so no one is "sacrificing" or "giving in"...). I would suggest something like this to get you started: You agree to begin looking for city jobs and submitting resumes, and simultaneously she agrees to get a part time job to help with the finances (you can send out resumes together to ensure you're both keeping up your end of the bargain) OR she agrees to limit FB time to 2 hours a day..AND you agree to take her out with other couples twice a week. See what I mean--keep going until you have an understanding and you are both heading toward moving and fixing the marriage. 



> I realize that nothing will be the same, for any of us, that ship has sailed. So my goal is to make sure I do all I can to make this stage of our marriage the beginning of the best years of our lives. She has always been my favorite part of life, she IS my best friend and I love her more than life itself...I just need a road map to follow.
> 
> I bought the Love Dare book last fall when this all broke loose. Now may be the perfect time to put it in motion.


I believe this would be a very wise idea! The Love Dare book looks at love from a selfless point of view, from a biblical point of view, and by looking at personal responsibility. I very highly recommend it and if you have any questions, I use it all the time!


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## ShadesofGray (Apr 19, 2010)

desparado

I can identify with much that you say.

My sincere concern for you is what you allow in the name of wanting a good and meaningful marriage.

She appears to be hooked on the "ME" drug. Only momentarily she escapes that, to further enable the larger space of satisfying her "SELF."

Addicts will lie to anybody to protect their addiction. "I'm sorry" and "I really love you" often become nothing but part of what she must do to protect her larger ongoing addiction.

In my opinion, her ME addiction must convert to a healthy WE action/belief or there is no hope of reconciling the union.

From a distance, her giving you specifics that trouble her (like financial) begins to sound like flavor of the day deflections. 

Its time for her to walk the talk of vows and living a life with you about being "lovable" "honorable" and "cherishable." 

If you can't detect ample proof of both living the vows, there is no union. Please understand that saying this makes me cry. Its where Hope and Reality often meet. 

There is nothing easy about this. But either both are willing to fight for what the union can be every minute of every day - or there is no marriage. No amount money, patience or love will make a difference.

Please don't interpret what I say as negative about your actions. You are clearly in the foxhole fighting the fight of your life - but your mate at the moment has gone AWOL.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Update. Someone please tell me if I messed this up.

Last night I found where she had been looking at the Facebook page of the OM's child. When she set up her FB account, I insisted that this person's page be blocked along with several others, which she did, but this page was named differently, like the child has two accounts. Anyway, I confronted her with it and she promised me that she had not contacted the OM or his kids but had only looked at that page. Unless she has really gotten to be a pro at lying, I believe her.

We then got into a discussion about the other issues, such as moving and financial issues. Although she said she doesn't blame me for everything, I can hear it in her voice that she does. I informed her of all the big decisions over the course of our marriage and how she was 100% involved everytime. She said she went along with everything to make me and my family happy, but I just don't get that, and I certainly didn't have that impression then, either. She also claims I haven't made good on the promises I made when this all blew up last winter that I would move us and do what it took, but I explained how I needed to feel like she was with me in this, supporting me and committing to me, but she claims she still has all these underlying feelings that she hasn't yet dealt with but needs to and thought once we were in a new place that she could start working on those feelings. I told her it was very hard for me to put my heart into something that I don't feel she is doing the same for. Plus, financially, we just can't do anything immediately.

I'm not sure where we are now. We seem to have taken a huge step backwards and frankly I don't know where to go from here.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

With all that is going on now with her, would this be a good time to rent the movie "Fireproof"? Do you think it would be effective at all? We watched it when it first came out, never thinking we would need it for ourselves. At her heart, she has always been a deeply rooted Christian woman. Only since contacting the slime has that changed. Any thoughts?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Based on what you've said and how she acts I would suspect one of two things: 1) she is still in contact with the OM, it's just much more "underground" and clandestine; or 2) they have not been in contact but she is not letting it go but rather is just in "it's on hold for now" mode. 

When a disloyal spouse ends contact, they are usually somewhat distant, it hurts to lose the OP, they feel lonely and empty, and they can mope and be depressed. Although that can be a little irritating, it's a good sign that they really are letting it go and fighting the temptation because they are not getting the "love-zing" of contact. I don't see that kind of behavior here, do you? I see behavior that is still very angry and blaming, and I see that she does "see what he's doing" by checking the child's FB page. Thus, this is why I guess it's either been driven further underground or it is in "wait it out" mode at least for your wife. 

So I have a few questions for you. When your wife said she was willing to end all contact and all you to verify the no contact (by giving you access and passwords and things), did you then take the time to have at least a short vacation with just you two? Even if you do have to work, try to take one day off (Friday or Monday), make arrangements for a long weekend, and go do a small, second honeymoon. 

Very often people neglect to do this little vacation because they'll say "We can't afford it right now" or "I can't get off work" but it is VITAL to reconnect. Right now, to your wife, her association with you is negative (as in Desperado = negative) and you need the time alone to have a few positive thoughts and feelings associated with you. Also, let me ask you this...if you "can't afford it right now", can you afford to lose half of everything you own? Can you afford huge legal fees to defend your right to be in your children's lives? If you say "no not really" then you CAN AND WILL find a way to do this little getaway. 

When you are on the getaway, it is not with the intention of having long, interrogating "relationship talks" or making her have sex that she's not into or ready for. The idea is to get away from the house to someplace new (a change of scenery so to speak) and do some things she enjoys. Plan to take her to a play or concert if she likes those things. Go to a concert. Find a local place for some "boot scootin' " and if she likes to dance try line-dancing lessons. Does this make sense? Do a few things like friends--like you are someone who LIKES her and enjoys her company. Then she'll have a few associations Desparado = positive. 

Then when you return "home" don't defend yourself. She's given you quite a few good clues of things you did that hurt her, and what you've been saying is "yeah but..." Well...exactly what excuse is good enough for her to hurt YOU? If there is none, then there is no excuse good enough for you to hurt her. She hears you saying, "I realize I hurt you but here is the reason why it's okay to hurt you." Love Extinguishers HAVE TO CEASE or I guarantee you will end your marriage. 

And here are the things I heard: 

1) She does not feel safe or able to reach mutual understandings with you. She say that she just "went along" for you and your family, and when a spouse gives in like that, it breeds resentment. Thus, you need to take the lead and make absolutely positive she is agreeing ENTHUSIASTICALLY. You don't do ANYTHING until she is in absolute, enthusiastic agreement with you, and that includes the "big marriage and family decisions." How would you like it if she just moved everyone to a condo downtown where you HATE IT and she said, "Well it was a big decision that had to be made for the family..." That's how she feels. 

2) She says you haven't made good on promises...and you say you put the two of you into a conundrum. You want her to end the affair first or you won't make good...she wants you to make good so she'll end the affair. Okay, ending the affair is a must, and I get that, but what she's saying (that you're not hearing) is that she feels like you made promises you are not keeping. So do you like it when she makes a promise to you and then breaks it? Does that breed resentment in you? Yeah, her too. And here is a newsflash for you--if she does leave you and take half of everything (assets and debts) she will IMMEDIATELY be able to move to where she wants to go and be in the place she has repeatedly told you she wants to be! 

Sooooo...at least in some ways can you see why it might look better to her to leave you right now? She has HUGE resentment over things she agreed to but didn't really want (she shouldn't have "given in" but you should have been sure she was enthusiastically agreeing); she could immediately be where she wants to be now and where you promised you'd go, but then didn't go; there have not been Desparado = positive associations made; and Love Extinguishers continue! 

If you need more help on these, shoot me or Tanelornpete a PM okay?


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> With all that is going on now with her, would this be a good time to rent the movie "Fireproof"? Do you think it would be effective at all? We watched it when it first came out, never thinking we would need it for ourselves. At her heart, she has always been a deeply rooted Christian woman. Only since contacting the slime has that changed. Any thoughts?


That's a great movie, and it can be very effective - it depends on how much of the Love Dare concepts you are willing to take on. The more work you put into it, the more reward you will see. 

She may want to get involved in it too, after she sees the changes in you...

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Now playing: Robert Plant & Alison Krauss - Stick With Me Baby
via FoxyTunes


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Even with her in this state? Do I ask her before I rent it or do I just show up with it and see what happens? 

Honestly, I am afraid I'll be the one in tears. My emotions are very raw these days.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Desparado, I suspect you are showing her that movie to try to "make her love you" yet you have not done the steps it takes to recover her love. When there is an affair, there are TWO BIG STEPS: 1) end the affair and 2) recover the love. The affair is ended, but to recover the love you actually have work to do...not her, you! 

For example, what are the things YOU did to extinguish the love in your marriage and hurt her? This Love Dare is not for her, my friend, it is for YOU...to dare YOU to love her. At this point, even if the affair is over, her head would be clearing from the dizziness at best so you have to take the lead. What did YOU do contribute to this mess? Print out the Love Extinguishers Questionnaire and ask her to honestly fill it out so you can find out what you did that helped harm this marriage. Then apologize for it, sincerely and make a plan to stop it. 

If you want to watch Fireproof, it should be for YOU to start the Love Dare for her.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

I have a question - what IS the 'state' she is in? Is she depressed, angry, sad, jolly? I can't get a grasp of it from what you write above. 

Looking over what you do write about her, I sense that she has been hinting at things that she would like to see changed. I'm pretty sure you have told her the things you want changed. My guess is that you should get together, have a serious meeting and perhaps plan the next 6 months or so out. 

And the Love Dare is for you - not her. The issues that SEEM to be at stake here are that you have an agenda you have implemented for her, and you expect her to follow it - much as she has in the past. 

Earlier you mentioned that you wanted your old wife back - and we wrote that you won't get her back - you will get a changed one (which is not always a bad thing!) 

One of the changes I can sense from reading what you write (which, by the way, is a form of hearsay - not the best means of communication) - is that she has mentioned that she 'went along' with you on many decisions. I think one of the things she has learned is that she is also capable of having an opinion about the decisions you make - and it would probably do you a great deal of good to approach her as an equal, rather than as an extension of yourself. 

I know! I was much like her at one time. In my previous marriage, I almost never had any real input into decisions made - instead, I was expected to agree - and my consent - verbal or not (I was very passive) was regarded as enthusiastic consent. Hardly the case. Many things we did were not what I would have chosen, had I been allowed more input.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Affaircare said:


> At this point, even if the affair is over, her head would be clearing from the dizziness at best so you have to take the lead.
> 
> ...
> 
> If you want to watch Fireproof, it should be for YOU to start the Love Dare for her.


Based on what I have told you, but where she swears to have had no contact with him since November, do you really feel like the affair is over? If so, by what you are saying, is it possible she could still be caught up in the "fog" even now, especially since she has concentrated her efforts on our living situation and not addressed the other? Honestly, I don't think she has talked to him. I think she just got curious about his kid. My wife is not a good liar, I can spot it miles away, she did not lie to me when she said she has had no contact.

As to Fireproof, would it be better for me to watch it alone then? I realize I have to work on me and I appreciate any tools you have offered to help that along.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Tanelornpete said:


> I have a question - what IS the 'state' she is in? Is she depressed, angry, sad, jolly? I can't get a grasp of it from what you write above.
> 
> Looking over what you do write about her, I sense that she has been hinting at things that she would like to see changed. I'm pretty sure you have told her the things you want changed. My guess is that you should get together, have a serious meeting and perhaps plan the next 6 months or so out.


Her state is mostly sad. She was, up until 9 months ago, a very happy (sounding and acting) person. Was happy to see me when I got home, sounded thrilled to hear my voice when I called throughout the day, etc. After she fell for the other guy, all of that changed, it seemed like within a month. This unhappiness, this immediate sense of needing to leave this town, this house, didn't occur or come to the surface until after the affair had ended.

She says she is still in love with me, she has never debated that. Right now, if I could just win the lottery and get her to a new house in the city, I think things would be great but I have to contend with this mountain of debt we have collectively amassed all these years and I think she would rather bail than deal with it and this guy (although in deceit) painted her a pretty rosy picture to come be with him. (He lost his house and business to foreclosure in July while telling her he was wealthy).

I am trying to meet all her EN's. The only one I am failing miserably at is financial support, and it seems to be the one she needs the most. She wants change now, immediately. I have come a long ways in that respect in the last 6 months, without her help, but am still a long ways from getting us to another place.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Did I go too far? She was upset with me today when she discovered I had deleted pictures from the cell phone of the OM's kids. I couldn't believe she was mad at me about that. That escalated when she informed me that she was considering taking the kids and trying a separation for the summer. I exploded back about her running out instead of helping me work the situation out so we could ALL be happy. Currently we are not speaking and in separate rooms. I don't know where we go from here. Any quick suggestions on how to turn this around?


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

desparado said:


> Did I go too far? She was upset with me today when she discovered I had deleted pictures from the cell phone of the OM's kids. I couldn't believe she was mad at me about that. That escalated when she informed me that she was considering taking the kids and trying a separation for the summer. I exploded back about her running out instead of helping me work the situation out so we could ALL be happy. Currently we are not speaking and in separate rooms. I don't know where we go from here. Any quick suggestions on how to turn this around?


The fact that she still has pictures of the OMs kids on her phone is indication that the affair in not over. Your marriage cannot, and will not, recover until that affair ends. Hence, you need to be working on that premise.

As for a separation for the summer, how does she propose to finance such a venture? Remember that those kids are yours, and you have JUST as much right to them as she does. She cannot just 'take' them - there must be legal documentation, proof of custody, and child support arrangements in place. Of course, you can just opt to let her take them, but I strongly advise against that. Your kids need to be taught some of the most important lessons in life right now - things that most people are simply not taught anymore (see the troubles on this board, and even some of the horrible advice!)

They need to learn what commitment is, what it means to work hard to overcome troubles, etc. 

You'll need to step into a much more concentrated and disciplined course of action designed to save your marriage: Plan A is good, but you also need to be planning and preparing for other contingencies. It may come to separation. Do NOT fund the affair. It might be a very good lesson for her to understand just how difficult it is to pay bills, manage kids, etc. She'll need to work to support the kids, need to pay childcare, etc.

My suspicion is that she is thinking in affair-fog. She is not really aware of all that is transpiring around her. SO don't take it all too seriously, just keep in mind that it is up to you to do the right thing, all of the time - and that includes fighting for your kids, as well as for the marriage.

Keep up Plan A, the Love Dare, etc. Stay the course.


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## desparado (Sep 16, 2009)

Thanks for the advice Tanelornpete, I have been thinking the same thing about the affair. I don't think she has spoken with him, at least not from here on our phones, but I think she may be contacting him through FB and discreet emails. She would catch a keylogger quickly (she already has once) so I have to go with my gut on this unless someone knows of some stealth tool I could use to find out.

I am not going to allow her to step out of here with kids in tow. That ship will not sail. I have to say, her deposits into my love bank are getting to an all time low with this weekend's events.

I am still holding on to the fact that yes, we did make a covenant to God and all around us to remain faithful and committed to each other til death. Those vows do mean something to me and I want my children to see MY example. My wife says its all about being "Happy", her and the kids was her meaning but I have been with my kids alone all day today and to tell you the truth, they are pretty happy kids despite all she says about them. They don't ask for nor want trips to the library and such, they want time with us. We play games, talk, play outside, etc. I think it is she that makes them miserable during the day. She keeps them closed up in the house all day, never opens the curtains ("for fear someone might drop in"), my oldest has to stay in the room most of the day just to stay out of trouble. My wife speaks of needing to be near the city so they can be close to swimming lessons, sports activities, libraries, etc. We have it all right here, sure on a smaller scale, but its here, she just chooses not to use these facilities. 

I know I have a lot of work to do on myself as Affaircare has explained earlier, but I believe the real crux of this issue is surfacing and that is as you said, the affair, or at least the idea of the affair, is not really over. 

One question, let me know if you think this is possible: She told me that even though the affair ( and she has yet to admit that is what it was) was "over" in November, she has been so caught up on the fact that we need to move from this place that she put those feelings aside, knowing she would have to deal with them later. Is it possible that she can still be completely fogged-in after 6 months without contact with him by simply concentrating her miserable feelings on some other topic as she says? She promises there has been no contact.

She says she is putting our kids first and wants to make sure they are happy before she considers "us". I told her that I felt like I was being used, that she wants me to completely change everything about everything, move to a new state, get a new job, etc., but she can't commit to me and can't guarantee that after we go through all of this, that she will even want to work on us. I cannot be motivated to go through all of this, moving to the same city he lives in, only to be booted out once my task is complete. What do you think Affaircare, is this still all about me and how I need to change MY thinking or do you agree with my feelings on this?


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## wuyanxue (Apr 12, 2010)

Confidence – Love – Patience – Faith Are the tools to help heal a marriage. 

Marriage requires two mutual tolerance and understanding. More communication. More time to each other. Believe will be better.


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