# Not exactly rape, but I hate it...(very detailed nsfw question)



## marieh (Oct 17, 2012)

Hello everyone...

I would like to know your opinions about this sex issue I'm having. My husband (an otherwise sweet and smart guy), really likes anal. I like anal sometimes (*way *less often than he does) but find it in general scary, even when I'm enjoying it (it hurts and it's potentially super painful)

So...many times I have told him I would like to do it once in a while only, and I have also told him it's scary and I like to take it slow. He listens and seems to be okay with my requests, but then every single time we have sex he tries to sneakily start having anal. As in, let's see if she'll let me (maybe he doesn't think I'll notice?). I sometimes tell him, hey, that's my ass...please get out, but he keeps trying pretending he doesn't know where he is. Sometimes I just let him do it because...I don't want to dissapoint him. But I hate it. I have cried afterwards and he feels bad and tells me it will never happen, but it does...always.

What's more, sometimes he has done anal, and then when I complained he changed to vaginal, and this caused me to have infections (several times). This is the reason why now I ask him not to change places, so when he has been angling for anal (and there has been considerable physical contact between his penis and my ass), the whole deal is ruined, because I don't want it anywhere else! But today he didn't listen to me. I said I didn't want it in my vagina after it being in my ass, and he started begging as in pleeeeeassse, pleeeasse! I kept saying "no, I could get sick!" and he just got on me and was about to do it! until I said very sternly and looking at him in the eye "I SAID NO".

After this I left very quickly and locked myself in the bathroom. I feel...I don't know. Does he even care about me, my health, my wishes? I am sad.  I stayed in the shower and cried a little bit until I was sure he had left the house and now I know he'll feel guilty and apologize but nothing will change.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

That is rape. No ifs ands or buts about it.
You explained to him what was not okay, he did it anyway.
You can file a police report if you like, chances are it wouldn't be prosecuted but it will make you feel better about sticking up for yourself, and might also prove helpful for divorce depending what state/country you live in.
Read up on the rules of consent.
I am sorry, but you deserve better than to be in this marriage.
Rape is rape.
I had to divorce my husband because he also raped me.
After therapy, I decided that I would only hate myself if I stayed with a person who chose not to listen to what was okay in bed. I deserve to enjoy sex, not to spend the time in bed wondering if I am going to be raped again. That is not how marital sex should be. That is not how any sex should be! Safe (emotional and physical) sex is a basic human right - for men AND women. And you are not an exception. Nor does the fact that you are married remove your rights.
Consent Rules


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

This is a very serious problem.

Respect should be the first thing a man shows for his wife (and vice versa). I suspect the only thing you did wrong was when you said that sometimes you let him do anal anyways, even if you don't want it. I suspect that's likely happened as well when he's gone from anal to vaginal. It likely set up a precident and now he thinks if he just pressures you enough, you'll cave, because you have before.

That's his flaw though, not yours. You gave in trying to be nice (even though you regret it now) and he's taking full advantage of that. I'd suggest laying down some ground rules with him.

Firstly, tell him that you are not going to allow him to go from anal to vaginal, ever. There are many reasons, with health being the first one and the biggest. Frankly, I don't understand why he wouldn't want to protect your health as a natural instinct as a husband. I'd suggest telling him if he does it again, there will be consequences. You can decide the consequences, but cutting off sex would be a possible start.

Secondly, I'd set the rule that anal sex is for now totally up to you. He shouldn't even ask for it. Normally I wouldn't suggest going to that extreme, but clearly your husband has shown no regard for what you want and only what he wants. Until that changes, tell him he's lost the right to even try and you solely control whether or not it happens.

Thirdly, I'd point out your concern regarding the fact you were scared he'd rape you. It's a valid concern. A wife shouldn't have to yell at her husband to stop and then lock herself in the bathroom and cry, only coming out when he's left the house. That's a safety issue. Based on your post, it sounds like his demands to be satisfied are escalating, as are his forcefulness to have those needs met. This should be stopped now before it does go further.

I'd suggest a marriage counsellor immiediately. This isn't just a sex issue, it's a health issue and a safety issue and there's also a severe lack of respect and regard for you and your well-being in this relationship. Take steps to stop it now before it escalates.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Your husband is a jerk. If mine did that he'd be cut off from ANY sex until he got some counseling and figured out why he does that crap.


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## marieh (Oct 17, 2012)

Thank you for your replies. 

A little clarification...I don't think he would have raped me. I left to shower because I felt upset and sad, and didn't feel comfortable facing him. I think he is a good guy and he cares about me, I just don't think he can control himself when we are in bed.


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## dormant (Apr 3, 2012)

This sounds to me like it is serious enough to bring the law into it. 

911


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

marieh said:


> Thank you for your replies.
> 
> A little clarification...I don't think he would have raped me. I left to shower because I felt upset and sad, and didn't feel comfortable facing him. I think he is a good guy and he cares about me, I just don't think he can control himself when we are in bed.


A man who cannot control himself and listen to safety/health concerns during sex should not be having sex. The bottom line is that you said no and he did it anyway. That violates the laws of consent, and is therefore a sexual assault, or in blunter terms, rape.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

marieh said:


> Thank you for your replies.
> 
> A little clarification...I don't think he would have raped me.


He DID rape you. You told him in no uncertain terms several times you didn't want anal penetration and he did it anyway. That is rape. 

If he can 't control himself he'd better figure out how to ASAP. And you need to tell him that he needs to do so. He is being TOTALLY selfish and discounting your feelings entirely, not to mention your health.

How would you feel if you knew your daughters husband was treating her this way???


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Is there any other area in your life that is similar to this? Obviously not this serious, or to this extent. But issues where you have to repeatedly ask him not to do something, but he still does it anyhow? Where your simple, repeated, respectful request is not honored?

Also--how old are the two of you?


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

marieh said:


> Thank you for your replies.
> 
> A little clarification...I don't think he would have raped me. I left to shower because I felt upset and sad, and didn't feel comfortable facing him. I think he is a good guy and he cares about me, I just don't think he can control himself when we are in bed.


No, he's not a good guy in this case. If he cared about you he would cut this crap out and listen to what you are telling him. He needs to learn that no means no. Seriously, do not put up with this any longer. Especially going from anal to vag as it is causing infections for you. :wtf:


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Your husband is an ass. If you do have sex with him, I would set some ground rules, and then enforce them. Right now, you're teaching him that your rules don't mean anything, because all he has to do is say sorry.

The rules would be something like he can ask once for anal in a given night. If you say no, then that's it. No begging, pleading, etc. No trying to sneak it in. Definitely no double dipping. Failure to abide by the rules means the end of playtime. You can take out your favorite toy and take care of yourself, he can grab the bottle of lube. 

You could also create a rule that before he gets anal from you, he has to GET 5 minutes of anal from you and a toy about the same size as his penis. Again, failure to abide by the rule and cheat means the immediate end of any joint pleasures, and you can each take care of yourselves. After all, both of your asses are just as capable of being penetrated... It's only fair that he gets to understand what he's asking of you. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

That is rape. 
If my h penetrated anything after I said no he would be thrown out of the house. This is not your fault but I think you are being abused and you need help in setting your boundaries and deciding how to proceed in an abusive marriage. You could contact a domestic abuse agency or shelter and see if they will get free counseling for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## momtwo4 (May 23, 2012)

I find your husband's behavior appalling. He knows very well what he did, and how many times you have asked him not to. I agree that he raped you. You told him to stop, and he did it anyway. IMO, he has permanently given up the privilege of anal sex with you.


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## AsTheStoryGoes (Oct 10, 2012)

If my husband ever pulled that crap with me, there would be no more sex. PERIOD. Until he got some help. You shouldn't have to go through this in a marriage, and yes..it is rape. You're in denial right now. He's NOT a good guy for doing this to you. It sounds like he doesn't care about your feelings at all, only his needs. This is your HEALTH and BODY we're talking about, not to mention your mind, this is psychologically damaging. I really hope you're able to stand up for yourself, for your own good. Put your foot down, and don't give in. You have in the past, so he thinks he can get away with whatever he wants. I'd make a stand right now and tell him you're not going to budge. Definitely set some ground rules. If he can't learn to respect you or your body, cut him off. THIS IS NOT OKAY.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

marieh said:


> ...I just don't think he can control himself when we are in bed.


:bsflag: There is no reason or excuse that he can give to justify his behavior. If he is that lax in self control, you don't need to be with him. Anal to vaginal..??? NNNOOOO! Regardless of what your husband has seen in porn, that is a very dangerous and unhealthy thing to do. NEVER let him do that again. PERIOD. 
Him not listening to you and doing what he wants is a true sign of immaturity and selfishness and it is hurting you. It needs to come to a stop now! I agree with others that counseling is definitely indicated here and at a bare minimum, you need to sit down with him outside of the bedroom, look him square in the eye and tell him that these things will not happen again. And for God's sake, do not be afraid of hurting his feelings or letting him get disappointed.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Ah, I'm definitely no expert, but do you think you might need some counseling to get to the root of why you feel the need to defend this jerk? 

You are the victim, not him.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Stand up for yourself! I mean that very literally. Stand up and walk away when he tries to force something on you that hurts. Anal sex can cause fissures in the rectum, and bacteria from the rectum can be transferred to the vagina, which could cause a vaginal infection.


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## marieh (Oct 17, 2012)

lovesherman said:


> Stand up for yourself! I mean that very literally. Stand up and walk away when he tries to force something on you that hurts. Anal sex can cause fissures in the rectum, and bacteria from the rectum can be transferred to the vagina, which could cause a vaginal infection.


i feel i need to clarify. he would never physically make me do something. he has never been violent to me in the slightest. i feel pressured and coerced, though. but he has never pinned me down or hit me or anything like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

If he can't be trusted (and I should imagine anal sex involves a lot of trust), I would tell him categorically that you will no longer allow him to have anal sex with you. If he doesn't care about your health, he doesn't care about you, period.

His behaviour was disgraceful, OP.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

marieh said:


> i feel i need to clarify. he would never physically make me do something. he has never been violent to me in the slightest. i feel pressured and coerced, though. but he has never pinned me down or hit me or anything like that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're right, you have not been raped but you are not being respected, heard or cared for. Your husband is willing to coerce you into feeling as if it's your obligation and it's OK to hurt you physically and emotionally without care because of his own benefit and pleasure.

Please understand that this is not the way a loving, committed relationship should be. You have to know that a man who can so carelessly disregard your health and emotional well being for his own pleasure can't possibly love you.

Please value yourself more than this and refuse to do anything that is not pleasurable for you or that has a risk of infection.

I can tell you that you deserve to be with a partner who considers your needs, tries to understand them and works with you so that you share mutual pleasure and excitement over your lovemaking. Your husband need therapy in the least.


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## Relic (Sep 20, 2012)

Marieh,

Your husband is acting like a big loser...I agree with what Trenton said.

It also sounds like your husband likes the idea of anal sex, but has no idea of how to do it properly.

You seem open to it, to an extent. He's already lucky that you're open to the idea of it, and he is abusing that privilege.

For now, I'd say it has to absolutely stop. He has to somehow make amends for they way he has disrespected you.

If you're open to the idea of anal sex sometime in the future you have to set some rules: 1) only on your birthday, once-per-month, etc. No asking any other time. 2) no anal sex until he learns how to do it safely, cleanly, and and learns how to enter gently. That means, he has to show you that he has done some research and learned about bacteria, clenliness, preparation of the anus for entry, importance of proper lubrication, etc. He can buy a book, do internet research, etc. but he has to show you he has learned how to do it. 

You should get educated on this, too, so you know when he's doing it wrong.

And if you're done with anal, that's fine, too. 

What a dork he is.

The way he has treated you though, shows a complete lack of respect. I wouldn't blame you if you threw him out.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

marieh said:


> I sometimes tell him, hey, that's my ass...please get out, but he keeps trying pretending he doesn't know where he is. Sometimes I just let him do it because...I don't want to dissapoint him. But I hate it. I have cried afterwards and he feels bad and tells me it will never happen, but it does...always.


Keeping one's head when one is overwhelmed by hormones and crazy horny is a skill that your husband obviously needs a lot of work on. He seems to feel bad afterwards out of concern for you. But that doesn't help you that much. He needs to feel concern for you when he's in the middle of sex.



marieh said:


> But today he didn't listen to me. I said I didn't want it in my vagina after it being in my ass, and he started begging as in pleeeeeassse, pleeeasse! I kept saying "no, I could get sick!" and he just got on me and was about to do it! until I said very sternly and looking at him in the eye "I SAID NO".


Good for you. You finally stood up for yourself. You need some practice in this department as well. It well help your husband with his self-control and improve your relationship.



marieh said:


> Does he even care about me, my health, my wishes? I am sad.  I stayed in the shower and cried a little bit until I was sure he had left the house and now I know he'll feel guilty and apologize but nothing will change.


He probably does care. He's probably watching anal porn, where actresses appear to really enjoy anal, and also routinely switch between anus and vagina. Either these actresses develop raging infections later that are never part of the movies, or they fast the day before and use several enemas so that their GI tract is **** and span. So, he's probably confusing fantasy (anal porn) with reality (a wife who rarely enjoys it and gets infections). He probably thinks this will be the time you convert to an infection-free anal lover.

Don't listen to hysterical people who want to redefine a husband being a jerk and begging his wife until she consents to sex she really doesn't want as a rapist. He's not a rapist. He's a jerk. He's not being loving. And he is hurting his sex life by making you resent him. If he thinks he's got it tough with rare, begrudging anal sex now, wait until he gets the, "I love you, but I'm not in love with you, so no more sex ever," talk in a few years. He'll really have problems then.

You both need counseling. And you need to stay away from sex until he's communicated to you that he is sorry, and he commits to refrain from any pressure in the bedroom at all for a very long time.

Good luck.


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## TheMonogamista (Oct 5, 2012)

marieh said:


> i feel i need to clarify. he would never physically make me do something. he has never been violent to me in the slightest. i feel pressured and coerced, though. but he has never pinned me down or hit me or anything like that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh Marieh! I'm so sorry that this is part of your life and your marriage! My heart goes out to you.

Even if you don't feel raped, feeling pressured and coerced is a BIG DEAL! Something is very wrong when you are caused to feel that way by the very person you ought to feel safest around. He is supposed to provide you protection. 

Please talk to someone about this. It is great that you are reaching out to us on this forum. But, in addition, I really think you need to be talking to a professional counselor with your husband. 

Best of luck!


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Get some flannel nighties that the Walton women would be ashamed to wear as 'too prudish'.

Also pack a bag with basic toiletries.

Then in a non-confrontational way tell him you are tired of raging vaginal infections and the playground is closed due to a toxic spill. Show him graphic pictures of what they look like. He might be uneducated (I sure no nothing about them. I just trust the lifeguard flags...)

If he asks about the suitcase, say since he has trouble with the word 'no', you need to be ready to spend the night at a hotel or GFs house...and you'll tell her the reason for the intrusion.

Tell him you love him but that your ass is a gift and not a right and he needs to be clear on that RIGHT THE **** NOW.

Then give him a BJ and roll over and go to sleep...and don't give him sex for two weeks.

I am not normally in favor of denial but it seems appropriate here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

JCD said:


> Get some flannel nighties that the Walton women would be ashamed to wear as 'too prudish'.
> 
> Also pack a bag with basic toiletries.
> 
> ...


That one right there would be a good one. Bonus points if you have a good/great relationship with his mother/father because you could show up on their doorstep and explain to them why as well.


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## Monty4321 (Jul 15, 2011)

NOT RAPE!! 

I am so glad that the poster clarified that her husband has never been forceful. I just cannot believe that so many folks on here called this rape.

If she says "no" to sex and he forces himself in her and pins her down: then that is rape.

Read before posting something so extreme people as to rape. She became stern and looked him in the eyes and said no - and it was over. 

His actions before that was terrible, but he stopped before he began after she said no.

He is a jerk and inconsiderate. Something like this can get very serious really quick and turn into abuse and potentially rape. Please have him see a counselor asap!!


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Some folks just don't understand English. Buy a pair of handcuffs and the biggest, scariest looking dildo you can find. Hide the device and tease him into letting you handcuff him. Then, haul out the killer dildo and tell him you want to give him as much pleasure as he's been giving you. I figure somewhere in the first 30 minutes, he'll have a life changing epiphany.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

I get what you're saying...his attitude isn't of a "rapist"


But .everybody's said it: It's just a such a complete lack of respect for you...and that is SUCH A BIG DEAL TO ME!!!

Maybe even *deal killer*...

for sure an anal killer, FOREVER...I think at the very least he's forfeited that "privilege" 

(oh and yeah...the whole anus to vagina...that's showing a complete disregard for your health)

How it can be "making love" when he doesn't seem to care about your feelings/well-being at all during sex?

It's disgusting

Also, I really have a hard time believing you have no other warning signs/questionable behavior bleeding into the rest of your marriage...is he really Mr. Wonderful in all other respects...or is he dismissive of you and your opinions?

Kinda think the bedroom is often a mirror to the whole relationship


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

marieh said:


> i feel i need to clarify. he would never physically make me do something. he has never been violent to me in the slightest. i feel pressured and coerced, though. but he has never pinned me down or hit me or anything like that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well gee, once he is in your butt, it's not like you can move.
Trust me, I was in your position, literally a year ago and I protested just as much as you. Until I decided to leave after he inserted his penis in me after promising that he'd use a condom so that I wouldn't get pregnant. He acted like it was a misunderstanding, that I had indicated to him through some subtle movement that I wanted it without a condom, etc. This was after a very long discussion that took place over a series of days that made it very clear that I did not want to risk pregnancy with him.

A man who treats you like this is manipulative and abusive. Being a 'good guy' by doing everything by the book so that you feel you have no legitimate reason to complain and would be a fool to leave him is part of the manipulation. He knows just how to keep things going by behaving OUT of bed, so that he can get off on what he does to you IN bed. This man is perverse. He is the type of guy who gets married to someone who is trusting and good natured so that he can get away with rape. What he really wants to do is to brutalize women, and on top of that, to do it in a way so that he can do it over and over again, and still have his breakfast cooked for him in the morning with a smile and an 'I love you' by the unwitting victim. He probably has a hundred 'proofs' he says to you with which he can show you how much he 'loves you'. Flowers, jewelry, doing the dishes, folding the laundry, opening the door for you...


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Monty4321 said:


> NOT RAPE!!
> 
> I am so glad that the poster clarified that her husband has never been forceful. I just cannot believe that so many folks on here called this rape.
> 
> ...


Nonconsent is rape in New Hampshire where I live. And many other states and countries. Any sexual act that occurs even during sex where the women is having sex, like moving your penis from the butt to the vagina without asking and then getting a 'yes' answer is most definitely rape. AND you need to ask each and every time. A yes answer one time does not mean a yes answer the next time. She made it clear she did not want this happening and he did it anyway. OMG, how is that not rape? She was violated.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

marieh said:


> i feel i need to clarify. he would never physically make me do something. he has never been violent to me in the slightest. i feel pressured and coerced, though. but he has never pinned me down or hit me or anything like that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Trying to force you penis into your wifes sweet honey pot after you had it in her ass and she says no, is probably one of the most violent things a man can do to a woman.

I mean F. what the hell is up with that dude.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Marieh,

There is something you need to understand about some men.

Some men get sexual pleasure from inflicting a certain degree of pain.

The only thing that " overpowers " him in bed is his own selfishness and lack of respect for your body.
Because of his lack of respect, you suffered infections.
Yet he does not care.

The next time he brings up this anal talk, tell him that you will allow him anal only if he allows you to [email protected] him in his anus first , _everytime ._

If he agrees, then go online, and order an extra large dildo.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

What's up with this fixation on anal sex? I understand variety and doing it to spice things up. But to always prefer it to vaginal penetration? To the point of having conflicts with the wife over it? That's kinda weird IMO.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

At least, when you have sex with your husband, insist on giving him oral and then staying on top so that you can be in control of what happens. I'm sure this will open a whole new can of worms, same flavor though.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Nonconsent is rape in New Hampshire where I live. And many other states and countries. Any sexual act that occurs even during sex where the women is having sex, like moving your penis from the butt to the vagina without asking and then getting a 'yes' answer is most definitely rape. AND you need to ask each and every time. A yes answer one time does not mean a yes answer the next time. She made it clear she did not want this happening and he did it anyway. OMG, how is that not rape? She was violated.


The OP gave consent. Her point was not that she refused consent, and he did it anyway. Her point was that she refused consent, then he begged or pouted until she gave consent. Badgering your wife until she consents is not rape.

The most recent time, she firmly told him no. And he relented. If he had not, he would be guilty of a crime.

Rape is a serious crime. It's a shame that some people are so fervent to punish rapists that they want to redefine the crime into a nonsensical mess that requires notarized waivers recording every sexual encounter.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

He obviously puts his pleasure ahead of your time. I suggest you get a vibrator, turn the tables and stick it in his ass and see how HE likes it!


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## StoneAngel (Oct 10, 2012)

marieh said:


> Thank you for your replies.
> 
> A little clarification...I don't think he would have raped me. I left to shower because I felt upset and sad, and didn't feel comfortable facing him. I think he is a good guy and he cares about me, I just don't think he can control himself when we are in bed.


There should never be coercion in one's sexual bed, mutual experimentation absolutely, coercion forget it. Coercion whether by way of verbal or physical pressure tactics is a form of assault. Please don't get hung up on the word Rape. Rape is a very specific form of sexual assault. You may not have been raped but you are being sexually assaulted.
There is disregard for your health (physical, emotional and mental) and your safety. 
You may have in the past sent mixed messages, but when it comes down to it No means No. It should be viewed no differently then ie) even if a girl dresses provocatively, a man does not have rights to her sexually if she says no at that given moment. 
Nice Guy or not your husband needs to be made aware that what he is doing is legally considered assault, and legal action can be taken....but more importantly he needs to understand that his actions are destroying your faith and trust in him. The long term affects of leaving one's sexual bed in tears are not easily overcome. He is doing incredible damage in the name of self-control (or lack there of) and personal gratification...as you put it.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

StoneAngel said:


> *There should never be coercion in one's sexual bed, mutual experimentation absolutely, coercion forget it. * Coercion whether by way of verbal or physical pressure tactics is a form of assault. Please don't get hung up on the word Rape. Rape is a very specific form of sexual assault. You may not have been raped but you are being sexually assaulted.
> There is disregard for your health (physical, emotional and mental) and your safety.
> *You may have in the past sent mixed messages, but when it comes down to it No means No. It should be viewed no differently then ie) even if a girl dresses provocativey, a man does not have rights to her sexually if she says no at that given moment. *
> Nice Guy or not your husband needs to be made aware that what he is doing is legally considered assault, and legal action can be taken....but more importantly he needs to understand that his actions are destroying your faith and trust in him. *The long term affects of leaving one's sexual bed in tears are not easily overcome. * He is doing is incredible damage in the name of self-control (or lack there of) and personal gratification...as you put it.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


Time to OPEN your eyes Marieh.
His actions are VERY WRONG on every , single level.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

StoneAngel said:


> Coercion whether by way of verbal or physical pressure tactics is a form of assault. Please don't get hung up on the word Rape. Rape is a very specific form of sexual assault. You may not have been raped but you are being sexually assaulted.


She's not being assaulted. Verbal coercion isn't just begging until she gives consent. Verbal coercion means making threats.

As for the rest of your post, I agree. He's being a jerk. He's disregarding her completely. And she has sent mixed messages. If I tell my son that he can't have a cookie, and then he pitches a fit until I give him a cookie, I blame myself. I should have held firm. The OP needs to get more comfortable firmly denying her husband sex when he's acting like this way. He's acting childlike, and she should deal with him like she would an unruly child. She's in charge until he can act like a husband instead of a brat.

I wish her luck.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

No matter what we call the OP's H's behaviour, one thing is clear to me. It is most certainly sexual abuse.


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## momtwo4 (May 23, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> No matter what we call the OP's H's behaviour, one thing is clear to me. It is most certainly sexual abuse.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Precisely.


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## marieh (Oct 17, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> The OP gave consent. Her point was not that she refused consent, and he did it anyway. Her point was that she refused consent, then he begged or pouted until she gave consent. Badgering your wife until she consents is not rape.
> 
> The most recent time, she firmly told him no. And he relented. If he had not, he would be guilty of a crime.
> 
> Rape is a serious crime. It's a shame that some people are so fervent to punish rapists that they want to redefine the crime into a nonsensical mess that requires notarized waivers recording every sexual encounter.


I realize this thread is probably not going to be seen too much now that it's old, but I would like to say I did not give consent. I told him I didn't want to, he kept trying and ignoring me, pleading and then just got on top of me even though I kept saying I didn't want to. Then I said NO very clearly. But I had already said no many times. 

I have thought about your very kind and thoughtful responses and I think I am need for us to be apart for a while. The comment about how he respects me in other aspects of our marriage (house work, among others) hit home. I have come to the conclusion he doesn't respect me in any way. 

Thank you


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> The OP gave consent. Her point was not that she refused consent, and he did it anyway. Her point was that she refused consent, then he begged or pouted until she gave consent. Badgering your wife until she consents is not rape.
> 
> The most recent time, she firmly told him no. And he relented. If he had not, he would be guilty of a crime.
> 
> Rape is a serious crime. It's a shame that some people are so fervent to punish rapists that they want to redefine the crime into a nonsensical mess that requires notarized waivers recording every sexual encounter.


He moved his penis from her sphincter to her vagina without her permission. Then he explained to her that he could not tell where his penis was. Him having an excuse that sounds plausible after she asked him not to do that does not make it okay. It means he failed to take responsibility for making sure he only did what he had permission to do. Once the penis has moved from the sphincter to the vagina, it is too late to take that action back. She can't consent after the fact. The fact is, she asked him specifically not to do that, to choose one place OR the other, not one place after the other.

I hope the OP will find a friend in life who will respect her as much as she respects herself. It is difficult to realize that the person you married and who has been 'loving' you isn't really on your side after all. 

I know that when I finally did tell my H to leave my apartment where I had moved and where I was giving him a second chance, his mask fell away from him and he turned out to be quite an evil person, saying all kinds of things that apparently he had stored up in his head for 5 years. To him, it appeared to me in the end that I was a token woman whom he was manipulating for his own perverted purposes for 5 entire years. My children (who were not his) and I never looked back. Once you realize that someone has raped you, it's not really possible to reconcile, because you can never have the kind of sex life that you really want with that person, their ability to show true love through sexual intercourse with you has been forever damaged, you can never let your guard down with that person again. The marriage, at least for me, was ruined. I would have had to be insane to think I could ever try to have pleasurable, relaxed intercourse with my now-ex again, no matter what he said or how he reformed. If he reforms, then let him move on with someone else whom he has not raped. Many men in my town loathe him because my landlord is the police officer who encouraged me to file rape. The prosecutor's office decided not to press charges, that doesn't mean they didn't think a crime was committed or read about it and discuss it, also his commanding officer and the legal officer in his Army unit read about the charges as well. It wasn't prosecuted because not enough evidence after the fact. But I still filed, because if he ever does that to someone else, that file can be pulled up again. His reputation around town is one of a laughing stock. Nobody thinks it is manly of him to have done what he did. Meanwhile, I am living quite a nice life. The men and women in my town treat me and my kids very nicely, they welcomed us with open arms.


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## StoneAngel (Oct 10, 2012)

marieh said:


> I realize this thread is probably not going to be seen too much now that it's old, but I would like to say I did not give consent. I told him I didn't want to, he kept trying and ignoring me, pleading and then just got on top of me even though I kept saying I didn't want to. Then I said NO very clearly. But I had already said no many times.
> 
> I have thought about your very kind and thoughtful responses and I think I am need for us to be apart for a while. The comment about how he respects me in other aspects of our marriage (house work, among others) hit home. I have come to the conclusion he doesn't respect me in any way.
> 
> Thank you


Good luck to you and take care of yourself!


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## RoosterCogburn (Jul 10, 2012)

I feel that what your husband is done is a form of rape, but I have an inherent revulsion of anal sex for all kinds of very sound practical reasons, not the least of which is the infection risks. Your husband must know that you find it scarey and painful, and the simple fact that he will try to do a sneakey anal poke says a lot about his attitude and respect for you, none of it good at all.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Really depends on what state the OP is in as to whether or not the police would do anything. The law in MO states.. 


> In Missouri, married persons cannot file complaints for rape (566.030) and are considered property that always consents to sexual use. Married persons also cannot file complaints for forcible sodomy.


 That might have changed though.


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## momtwo4 (May 23, 2012)

marieh said:


> I realize this thread is probably not going to be seen too much now that it's old, but I would like to say I did not give consent. I told him I didn't want to, he kept trying and ignoring me, pleading and then just got on top of me even though I kept saying I didn't want to. Then I said NO very clearly. But I had already said no many times.
> 
> I have thought about your very kind and thoughtful responses and I think I am need for us to be apart for a while. The comment about how he respects me in other aspects of our marriage (house work, among others) hit home. I have come to the conclusion he doesn't respect me in any way.
> 
> Thank you


I admire you for making this decision. I hope you have a good support network around you. Don't be afraid to ask people for help and support. You deserve to be respected and treasured by someone who values you as an individual. I wish you the very best!


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Omg! Shocked at some of the initial responses. Posters should more careful before they start making such potentially damaging comments. oP, i dont think your husband GETS IT. Talk to him seriously about this...not during sex. You and him can talk about this with a good therapist.


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## momtwo4 (May 23, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Omg! Shocked at some of the initial responses. Posters should more careful before they start making such potentially damaging comments. oP, i dont think your husband GETS IT. Talk to him seriously about this...not during sex. You and him can talk about this with a good therapist.


I strongly disagree. I do think her husband "gets" that she does not like being coerced into anal sex that she doesn't enjoy. I do think he "gets" that he is giving her infections from spreading bacteria from her rectum into her vagina. He gets it. However, I don't think he cares enough to stop. If you cannot trust a man in bed when you are most vulnerable, how can you ever trust him in any other area of your marriage?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

momtwo4 said:


> I strongly disagree. I do think her husband "gets" that she does not like being coerced into anal sex that she doesn't enjoy. I do think he "gets" that he is giving her infections from spreading bacteria from her rectum into her vagina. He gets it. However, I don't think he cares enough to stop. If you cannot trust a man in bed when you are most vulnerable, how can you ever trust him in any other area of your marriage?


:iagree:

IMO, he gets it alright; he just doesn't like or accept it.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

marieh said:


> I realize this thread is probably not going to be seen too much now that it's old, but I would like to say I did not give consent. I told him I didn't want to, he kept trying and ignoring me, pleading and then just got on top of me even though I kept saying I didn't want to. Then I said NO very clearly. But I had already said no many times.


You're discussing the most recent episode where you never gave your consent. And he stopped before penetration. So, it's not rape. When I was arguing that you gave your consent, I was discussing the other times where you stated that you would eventually consent to keep him happy. That's not rape either.



marieh said:


> I have thought about your very kind and thoughtful responses and I think I am need for us to be apart for a while. The comment about how he respects me in other aspects of our marriage (house work, among others) hit home. I have come to the conclusion he doesn't respect me in any way.


That's a big problem. I hope you can both work on establishing and respecting your boundaries.

Good luck.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> He moved his penis from her sphincter to her vagina without her permission. Then he explained to her that he could not tell where his penis was. Him having an excuse that sounds plausible after she asked him not to do that does not make it okay. It means he failed to take responsibility for making sure he only did what he had permission to do. Once the penis has moved from the sphincter to the vagina, it is too late to take that action back. She can't consent after the fact. The fact is, she asked him specifically not to do that, to choose one place OR the other, not one place after the other.


I didn't argue that it was OK. I argued that it wasn't a crime. The OP wrote that, generally, she would eventually consent to keep him happy. As far as I'm aware, only the most recent time was the one where she refused consent during the entire time. And her husband stopped.



Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I hope the OP will find a friend in life who will respect her as much as she respects herself. It is difficult to realize that the person you married and who has been 'loving' you isn't really on your side after all.


Hopefully, her husband can learn to respect her.



Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Once you realize that someone has raped you, it's not really possible to reconcile, because you can never have the kind of sex life that you really want with that person, their ability to show true love through sexual intercourse with you has been forever damaged, you can never let your guard down with that person again. ... Many men in my town loathe him because my landlord is the police officer who encouraged me to file rape. The prosecutor's office decided not to press charges, that doesn't mean they didn't think a crime was committed or read about it and discuss it, also his commanding officer and the legal officer in his Army unit read about the charges as well. It wasn't prosecuted because not enough evidence after the fact. But I still filed, because if he ever does that to someone else, that file can be pulled up again. His reputation around town is one of a laughing stock. Nobody thinks it is manly of him to have done what he did. Meanwhile, I am living quite a nice life. The men and women in my town treat me and my kids very nicely, they welcomed us with open arms.


I'm glad you're living well. And I don't know the specifics of your case. But I am a skeptic at heart. When I read that you realized, retroactively, that you had been raped, I wonder if you were really raped. Since you notified the police, the Army, and the general public that your ex was a rapist, I hope he was. False charges of rape against a man can be devastating.


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## Monty4321 (Jul 15, 2011)

I suggest the poster go see a counselor about this. Before you accept this as a form of rape, see a counselor. 

For some of the folks to outright call this rape is very extreme. Rape is a very terrible and violent act.

No doubt what he did was terrible. But was it rape is up to interpretation.


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## Monty4321 (Jul 15, 2011)

missymrs80 said:


> Omg! Shocked at some of the initial responses. Posters should more careful before they start making such potentially damaging comments. oP, i dont think your husband GETS IT. Talk to him seriously about this...not during sex. You and him can talk about this with a good therapist.


:iagree:

And yes he needs serious help.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Get yourselves into MC pronto!


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> I didn't argue that it was OK. I argued that it wasn't a crime. The OP wrote that, generally, she would eventually consent to keep him happy. As far as I'm aware, only the most recent time was the one where she refused consent during the entire time. And her husband stopped.
> 
> 
> Hopefully, her husband can learn to respect her.
> ...


It could be a crime, and it is in some states and countries.
Yes my husband raped me. What, you are saying I might have filed a false report? By the way, I was in the military, I know exactly what I was doing. And I was TOLD by the police that a crime had been committed, and encouraged by the police to report it. I also received pro bono legal advice as a result of what happened to me, and assistance in getting a speedy divorce that INCLUDED a restraining order because of what happened, that extended to my children not to have any contact with him. Wow, you sure seem to think that my case is shaky. Not sure why. Just because it's on the internet I suppose, it can't possibly be real? Oh and by the way his actions included among other things threatening suicide by car and also forcibly restraint by not lowering me when we were out on a multi-pitch climb when I asked him to lower. It is a given that your belay WILL obey your requests/commands when you are on the end of a rope. Instead he kept me up there and swore at me and yanked on his end of the rope, it took my feet off the ledge where they were and slammed my upper body and my face against the rock, oh....at least 90 feet off the ground. 
He was stopped by a state trooper as well speeding well over the speed limit with me in the car, I had asked him to slow down and this was recorded in the stop which because he was in uniform and pleaded upcoming deployment and on his way to 'family' weekend, he got off with a warning and a request to 'listen to his wife' when it came to safety (oh yeah, that went over well....) So there were crimes committed not just the rape.


Fact is, he did not have permission to enter me unprotected without a condom and he knew this and he did it anyway while his 165 pounds were on top of my 100 and I had no warning or clue that he was going to do this as he had been overly careful as a 'setup' for this act to use condoms. He got my guard down and yes stupid me for believing his BS about reconciliation and counseling but that does not make me any less of a rape victim. As for the OP's husband, and whether what he did was legal or not in the state/country of the act, lack of knowledge of the law is no excuse. (This is how people even Americans get arrested in places like Singapore, for things like spitting, and in places like Nepal for publicly insulting the King.)

And no, I did not 'realize' after the fact that I'd been raped. I KNEW I'd been raped, but I did not know that I could FILE CHARGES AGAINST MY HUSBAND. That was what changed retrospectively, and that was what I hoped to convey to the OP, that if it is rape, in her state, she can file charges IF SHE DESIRES TO. It's not that she should, it's that she can. And that makes all the difference, just knowing that one can.

I personally would not marry or inhabit a state that had laws where a woman could not file rape charges against her husband. I'm shocked that such places exist in the country that I served so many years defending.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> It could be a crime, and it is in some states and countries.


There are two actions being discussed in this thread. The first is the OP's typical experience of her husband begging for sex until she gives consent. The second is her husband begging for sex, she never consents, and he gives up without penetrating her. Neither of those actions are crimes. Which of those do you consider crimes?



Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Yes my husband raped me. What, you are saying I might have filed a false report? By the way, I was in the military, I know exactly what I was doing. And I was TOLD by the police that a crime had been committed, and encouraged by the police to report it. I also received pro bono legal advice as a result of what happened to me, and assistance in getting a speedy divorce that INCLUDED a restraining order because of what happened, that extended to my children not to have any contact with him. Wow, you sure seem to think that my case is shaky. Not sure why.


Reread my post. I stated quite clearly that I did not know the specifics of your case. I was only basing my skepticism on the fact that you came to "realize" that you had been raped. That, along with the fact that other people had to encourage you to report it, implied that you did not immediately believe you were a rape victim. Given the fact that you consider a husband begging for sex to be a crime, I thought that maybe your husband behaved similarly.

Since you got advice from police and lawyers familiar with the specifics of your case, those people believed a crime was committed, then I'll defer to those more familiar and allow that a crime may have been committed.



Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I personally would not marry or inhabit a state that had laws where a woman could not file rape charges against her husband. I'm shocked that such places exist in the country that I served so many years defending.


All 50 states consider non-consensual sex within a marriage to be a crime.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> There are two actions being discussed in this thread. The first is the OP's typical experience of her husband begging for sex until she gives consent. The second is her husband begging for sex, she never consents, and he gives up without penetrating her. Neither of those actions are crimes. Which of those do you consider crimes?
> 
> 
> Reread my post. I stated quite clearly that I did not know the specifics of your case. I was only basing my skepticism on the fact that you came to "realize" that you had been raped. That, along with the fact that other people had to encourage you to report it, implied that you did not immediately believe you were a rape victim. Given the fact that you consider a husband begging for sex to be a crime, I thought that maybe your husband behaved similarly.
> ...


I've stated this before and I'll reiterate. The OP clearly posted that she asked her husband not to move from her anus to her vagina when he was having anal sex with her. He disregarded this request and according to her said that he couldn't tell the difference. In effect, he did something to her that she asked him not to. She did not give him permission to do this. Then, clearly, he had already inserted penis into vagina after being in anus, he was from behind, how could she wiggle out of this situation on her own? Sounds like rape to me. Can't undo that he went from anus to vagina.


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## LearninAsWeGo (Oct 20, 2012)

1) Yeah, it's basically rape. Total disrespect for you, and your body (never "switch hit" from V to A only... never back to V, it causes UTIs in any woman).

2) More importantly, if he likes anal more than V sex, he's probably bi or gay. You need to have a frank discussion. If he's having a male/male affair, you have SERIOUS health and intimacy risks going on.

...there's nothing wrong with a little anal sometimes (with lube) when you're on your cycle or just wanting to have fun. However, it's less passionate without a doubt. It should be something to spice things up occasionally or when regular V sex isn't real available; it's not a real common or every time thing. Again, unless he's gay.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I've stated this before and I'll reiterate. The OP clearly posted that she asked her husband not to move from her anus to her vagina when he was having anal sex with her. He disregarded this request and according to her said that he couldn't tell the difference. In effect, he did something to her that she asked him not to. She did not give him permission to do this. Then, clearly, he had already inserted penis into vagina after being in anus, he was from behind, how could she wiggle out of this situation on her own? Sounds like rape to me. Can't undo that he went from anus to vagina.


I didn't take that away at all. She has asked him not to go from back to front, and he often tried to. She would stop him, he would beg and/or complain, and she would give permission. The last time, just before she posted, he tried to, she denied him, he complained, she continued to deny him, he started to ignore her, and she stopped him.

That doesn't sound like rape to me.


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## LearninAsWeGo (Oct 20, 2012)

costa200 said:


> What's up with this fixation on anal sex? I understand variety and doing it to spice things up. But to always prefer it to vaginal penetration? To the point of having conflicts with the wife over it? That's *kinda weird* IMO.


Again, unless he's turning gay. It's more than "kinda weird"... see my post above.

5 pages of posts and nobody brought this up? Wow.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

LearninAsWeGo said:


> Again, unless he's turning gay. see my post above.
> 
> 5 pages of posts and nobody brought this up? Wow.


The defining factor in homosexuality is not a man having anal sex. It's a man having sex with another man.


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## LearninAsWeGo (Oct 20, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> The defining factor in homosexuality is not a man having anal sex. It's a man having sex with another man.


You'd be suprised, buddy... you'd be suprised.

Homosexuality is almost invariably for people who have been sexually and/or emotionally hurt or abused by the opposite gender. Male homosexuality (or sexual addiction, swinging, other sexual deviance etc) also becomes a lifestyle choice for guys who are pretty perverted and mentally distraught. For women, homosexuality's usually a lifestyle choice made after they are repeatedly rejected (think bull *****) or abused by men at some point. Either way, it's a lifestyle choice... and a very selfish one with serious health consequences.

If he's doing this abuse to his wife and fixated on anal low intimacy sex, he's obviously not all there mentally. My suspicion would be pretty high that he will be coming out of the closet soon. JMO


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## rjp1969 (Oct 18, 2012)

At the risk of moving a bit OT here, I'll say that I think the anal/gay thing might not really add up. 

The anal sex/low intimacy / porn thing on the other hand, does make a lot more sense. With the sheer amount of porn being watched (by all ages), some people are getting ... odd ... ideas about what 'normal' sex is. For example, there's an article on the BBC website :
BBC News - Should children be taught that porn is not real?

that deals with this issue. Makes interesting reading

Oh. And it's rape. Whatever way you look at it.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

rjp1969 said:


> For example, there's an article on the BBC website :
> BBC News - Should children be taught that porn is not real?
> 
> that deals with this issue. Makes interesting reading
> ...


Maybe we should teach children what rape is. I'm really surprised how many people view a man begging and/or complaining to his wife about sex as rape. If that's rape, then we don't have enough prisons.


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## momtwo4 (May 23, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Maybe we should teach children what rape is. I'm really surprised how many people view a man begging and/or complaining to his wife about sex as rape. If that's rape, then we don't have enough prisons.


I think it depends on how you read the post. I also think of it as rape because of the following lines:

_He listens and seems to be okay with my requests, but then every single time we have sex he tries to sneakily start having anal. As in, let's see if she'll let me (maybe he doesn't think I'll notice?). I sometimes tell him, hey, that's my ass...please get out, but he keeps trying pretending he doesn't know where he is._

She asked him repeatedly not to do anal sex but he sneakily does it anyway and pretends he doesn't know where he is _after_ she asked him to stop. Just because she didn't yell "hey stop it" doesn't mean that she wasn't forced or coerced at least a few times. Ignoring someone is also a form of coercion.


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## CondorTX19 (Jun 19, 2012)

Maybe you should get a big strap on and give him a little of his own medicine and let him see how it feels. Though it may backfire and be just what he wants. Still it would demonstrate to him how it feels and or hurts to have someone penetrate their rectum.

No matter what he should honor your requests and control his actions. If not it is RAPE.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

momtwo4 said:


> I think it depends on how you read the post. I also think of it as rape because of the following lines:
> 
> _He listens and seems to be okay with my requests, but then every single time we have sex he tries to sneakily start having anal. As in, *let's see if she'll let me* (maybe he doesn't think I'll notice?). I sometimes tell him, hey, that's my ass...please get out, but he keeps trying pretending he doesn't know where he is._
> 
> She asked him repeatedly not to do anal sex but he sneakily does it anyway and pretends he doesn't know where he is _after_ she asked him to stop. Just because she didn't yell "hey stop it" doesn't mean that she wasn't forced or coerced at least a few times. Ignoring someone is also a form of coercion.


I bolded the most important bit. As that shows, it's not force or coercion. And ignoring someone isn't coercing them. Coercion requires force or intimidation. She's never stated that her husband used either.

If you state before having sex that you don't want anal, and then, during sex, you state that it's OK, that's not force or coercion. I see that as a woman either not knowing what she wants (or doesn't want), or not being firm about it.

If I tell my children that they can't have dessert, and then they b!tch for 10 minutes about it, and then I let them have dessert, are they jerks for b!tching? Or is it my fault for not standing firm on my decision? I think it's my fault. And I know that, the next time I tell them they can't have dessert, they won't believe me. They have a proven strategy for getting what they want. And that doesn't make them rapists.


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## StoneAngel (Oct 10, 2012)

O.K. PHTlump,

How many times does a woman have to say NO or say its hurts, or I don't want to, does the action of her spouse finally become a violation of her body? Does it become sexual harrassment? I agree that in this case she was not raped. I stated in my post for the OP not to be fixated on Rape and that Rape is a specific type of sexual assault. 
In this case she most certainly is being sexually harrassed and assaulted. This most certainly is a crime. Just because they are married does not give the husband certain rights over his mates body. If this same behaviour was exhibited by a relative stranger, he could be prosecuted. Not for rape, but for sexual interference ( I believe) sexual harrassment and one other...I would have to look it up to jog my memory. I don't know where you are from....I am only familiar with the laws Canada and the U.K. Your assertion that this husband is not comitting some sort of criminal offence is sad really.
I understand that rape has become a catch phrase in some cases and there are huge ramifications to that. Infact the OP probably should not have phrased it that way in her opener.
I respect your tenacity I guess I don't understand it in this particular case.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

CondorTX19 said:


> No matter what he should honor your requests and control his actions. If not it is RAPE.


Yes, he should honor her requests and control his actions. But rape is a very specific crime. It is a violent crime. Rape isn't hurting someone's feelings. Rape isn't pestering someone until they consent to something. Rape is forcing someone to have non-consensual sex.

I really don't understand who benefits from redefining rape to include an overly broad and overly vague list of actions and/or inaction. But I imagine someone must be benefiting for so many to have jumped on board with this nonsense.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

marieh said:


> Thank you for your replies.
> 
> A little clarification...I don't think he would have raped me. I left to shower because I felt upset and sad, and didn't feel comfortable facing him. I think he is a good guy and he cares about me, I just don't think he can control himself when we are in bed.


Not every rape is a stranger sexually assaulting a woman in an alley...His behavior is seriously disgusting and only shows he has no respect for you..


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

StoneAngel said:


> O.K. PHTlump,
> 
> How many times does a woman have to say NO or say its hurts, or I don't want to, does the action of her spouse finally become a violation of her body? Does it become sexual harrassment? I agree that in this case she was not raped. I stated in my post for the OP not to be fixated on Rape and that Rape is a specific type of sexual assault.


What I think is that, if you deny consent, and then grant consent, then you have consented. Now, it is clear that the OP regrets granting consent. But having sex with a woman, who later regrets consenting, is not a crime.

I agree that it's not rape. I'm not an expert on the entire spectrum of sexual crime. So, maybe it falls under the definition of something else. I personally think it falls under the noncriminal category of being a jerk.

I agree that a stranger would have much less leeway in this situation. A stranger would not know that the OP will probably consent after some begging/badgering. But, her husband knows that she will.

As for why I am insistent, there are two reasons. First, I know women who have been raped. And I mean the traditional definition. A man forced himself on these women without consent, or any reasonable presumption of consent. So I bristle when I see others insist that a man hurting a woman's feelings is rape. It's not. It's not even in the same ballpark as what the women I know have suffered through.

Second, false rape accusations are awful. Rape, being such a brutal crime, carries a justifiable stigma for the rapist. Not only does an accused rapist face significant prison time, but his friends, family, coworkers, and entire social circle will often ostracize him. Even if the accusation is false, some of that stigma can't be erased. And false accusations are tragically common. One study looking at rape accusations in the military showed that 45% of the accusations were proven to be false.

So, let's call forcible non-consensual sex rape. Let's call rude behavior what it is. And let's not blithely call men rapists until the facts actually support that most serious charge.


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## StoneAngel (Oct 10, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> What I think is that, if you deny consent, and then grant consent, then you have consented. Now, it is clear that the OP regrets granting consent. But having sex with a woman, who later regrets consenting, is not a crime.
> 
> I agree that it's not rape. I'm not an expert on the entire spectrum of sexual crime. So, maybe it falls under the definition of something else. I personally think it falls under the noncriminal category of being a jerk.
> 
> ...


I should get my posts straight if I am going to start quoting the law. Sexual interference is only in reference to a minor not a marital partner.

a person *attempts* or threatens, by act *or gesture*, to apply force to another person, if a person has present ability to effect their purpose; or *causes that other person to believe*, *upon reasonable grounds, that they have present ability to effect their purpose; *Here is the clause for the criminal code of canada. This is the second clause defining sexual assault. It says that an attempt- that attempt does not have to be defined as threatening....it is and/or/both. This clause follows the clause for verbal consent. It is placed in the criminal code understanding that consent can not always be render (gagged, drugged, coerced, manipulated etc etc) This clause also relates to immediate presence of power over an individual to effect (or follow through) with his (in this case) purpose. That power may be physical, situational (unable to escape mentally or physically) and a hole list of others.
In this case this husband has power and intent and is repeatedly attempting.

I love that you are that protective of the women you know that have suffered that level of violence.

I am one of those women too. I suffered through the whole gamit. The coercision, not feeling like I could escape, feeling like I was a trapped animal, pertending that my instincts were wrong. I was badgered, verbally stroked etc, when I staved off that off the "jerkiness" stopped, I was forcibily resrtained, gagged, assaulted physically and with a weapon. It was random and brutal.

I know TMI, it was a long time ago, required alot of therapy and a whole lot more! I am shocked that I just wrote that....oh well it is all anonimous right.

My point is....I think.....If you were to have a candid conversation with these women friends/relatives (whatever the relationship is to you) These women will be able to explain the slippery slop of consent (how in marital situation consent is muddy) and I am sure these women would not look at the OP post as being simple husband jerkiness


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## CondorTX19 (Jun 19, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> What I think is that, if you deny consent, and then grant consent, then you have consented. Now, it is clear that the OP regrets granting consent. But having sex with a woman, who later regrets consenting, is not a crime.
> 
> I agree that it's not rape. I'm not an expert on the entire spectrum of sexual crime. So, maybe it falls under the definition of something else. I personally think it falls under the noncriminal category of being a jerk.
> 
> I think that consent is a fluid or a moment by moment event. Women can give consent and then at a later time, or at any time she feels like it during the act of sex, resend her consent and it must be honored. Just because it is consensual to start with does not mean a man has a Carte Blanche pass to behave like he wishes after starting.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> I didn't take that away at all. She has asked him not to go from back to front, and he often tried to. She would stop him, he would beg and/or complain, and she would give permission. The last time, just before she posted, he tried to, she denied him, he complained, she continued to deny him, he started to ignore her, and she stopped him.
> 
> That doesn't sound like rape to me.


Even if you stop someone, after they've done it, it's STILL rape. Stopping someone in the act of committing a crime, it's still a crime. Like if I took a smoking gun out of someone's hands after they fired it at someone, they still fired it. I told my ex to get his condom-less d*ck out of my vagina too. It doesn't mean because he took it out, that he didn't put it in there in the first place, and commit rape since he didn't have permission to try to impregnate me (or expose me to an STD he might have picked up.)


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> Yes, he should honor her requests and control his actions. But rape is a very specific crime. It is a violent crime. Rape isn't hurting someone's feelings. Rape isn't pestering someone until they consent to something. Rape is forcing someone to have non-consensual sex.
> 
> I really don't understand who benefits from redefining rape to include an overly broad and overly vague list of actions and/or inaction. But I imagine someone must be benefiting for so many to have jumped on board with this nonsense.


Yes, it is violent. But it doesn't have to leave bruises in order to be violent. Violence takes many shapes. The form of violence that leaves no marks and masquerades as what should be a loving, trusting and mutually pleasurable experience between two people is one of the worst forms of violence, it falls right behind child abuse. Some forms of child abuse don't leave marks either. But because it occurs to a trusting and vulnerable person who can do nothing but go about the business of being a child and needing care and protection from the people who are caring for it, this makes it a very bad crime, one of the worst that can occur in a society. Being gunned down for money by a strnager on the streets at night or being carjacked in a dicy area of a city is expected...but being raped in a marriage, where you are 'in love' with the perp and trusting and wanting to trust and wanting everything that a marriage can be...especially because our society does not entirely separate it from a sacred sacrament...and then shames the woman who is the victim...


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Even if you stop someone, after they've done it, it's STILL rape. Stopping someone in the act of committing a crime, it's still a crime. Like if I took a smoking gun out of someone's hands after they fired it at someone, they still fired it.


I never saw anything that the OP wrote that stated that her husband penetrated her after being denied consent. She stated that he would try to, and beg, and pester, and that she would then consent in order to keep him happy. Perhaps you are correct that she gave consent only after he penetrated her. But the OP didn't say that.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

CondorTX19 said:


> I think that consent is a fluid or a moment by moment event. Women can give consent and then at a later time, or at any time she feels like it during the act of sex, resend her consent and it must be honored. Just because it is consensual to start with does not mean a man has a Carte Blanche pass to behave like he wishes after starting.


In theory, I agree with you. Although, in practice, the longer one waits to withdraw consent, the more problematic it becomes. I don't subscribe to the belief that men should have sex with an ejection button handy to push at the first sign of the woman's change of heart.

However, what we have here isn't a case of delayed consent. Here, we have a case of delayed consent. The OP's final word, except in the final instance, was "yes." Her husband knew that, which explains his repeated begging and pestering to get through her "nos" to the final "yes." As I wrote before, it's little different than a child who knows that the parent will eventually cave after a fit is pitched. It just doesn't rise to the level of criminal, in my eyes.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Yes, it is violent. But it doesn't have to leave bruises in order to be violent. Violence takes many shapes.


No, it doesn't. This is another case of why it becomes problematic when people decide that words need to be redefined. It sets off a domino effect that goes on and on.

Rape can't be forcible, non-consensual sex. It has to be redefined to mean sex that isn't comfortable for the woman. But, in order for that to fly, we have to redefine the word violence to mean the opposite of what it currently means. Merriam-Webster defines violence as, "exertion of physical force so as to injure or abuse." That's not what we're discussing here.

I understand needing new words for things that didn't exist previously. Internet is a new word to describe a new thing. Violence isn't new. Why do we need to change what it means? Were women not getting their feelings hurt 100 years ago? Or 1,000 years ago?


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## rjp1969 (Oct 18, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> I never saw anything that the OP wrote that stated that her husband penetrated her after being denied consent. She stated that he would try to, and beg, and pester, *and that she would then consent in order to keep him happy*. Perhaps you are correct that she gave consent only after he penetrated her. But the OP didn't say that.


Coercion. That is one of the definitions of rape in one hell of a lot of countries

Imagine a man attacks a woman in an alleyway. He gives her a choice. She can either have sex with him, or he is going to beat herup. To prevent him from injuring her, she agrees to have sex with him. 

According to your logic, she has not been raped. After all, she consented to sex. However, she was coerced into sex.

Now, I appreciate that what I have thrown out there is an extreme version, but the principle holds true.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

rjp1969 said:


> Coercion. That is one of the definitions of rape in one hell of a lot of countries


Correct. In the context of rape, coercion means force or the threat of force.



rjp1969 said:


> Imagine a man attacks a woman in an alleyway. He gives her a choice. She can either have sex with him, or he is going to beat herup. To prevent him from injuring her, she agrees to have sex with him.
> 
> According to your logic, she has not been raped. After all, she consented to sex. However, she was coerced into sex.


You are wrong about my logic. Since the man threatened her with force, she was coerced into sex. That is obviously rape.



rjp1969 said:


> Now, I appreciate that what I have thrown out there is an extreme version, but the principle holds true.


Your example isn't extreme at all. It is rape. It is rape by my logic, or anyone else's. The thing that you have missed is that rape is an extreme act. Where you have gone wrong is to try to take an extreme act that requires violence or the threat of violence and to redefine it to include almost anything.

The OP didn't face force or the threat of force. The OP's husband gave her the choice of having anal sex with him, or he was going to be pissy all day. By your logic, that equals rape. By a reasonable person's, that is far from rape.

Let's take your logic and apply to it a different situation. I take my kids into the grocery store. While I'm checking out, they ask for candy bars. I tell them no. They pitch fits and make a scene. So, I give them candy bars. Now, this isn't rape, because no sex was involved. But, my kids are obviously guilty of a crime, right? I mean, they made me give them candy bars when I didn't want to. Should I call the police the next time my kids make a scene in public?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> The OP didn't face force or the threat of force. The OP's husband gave her the choice of having anal sex with him, or he was going to be pissy all day. By your logic, that equals rape. By a reasonable person's, that is far from rape.


No, it isn't rape, but it is emotional coercion and sexual / physical abuse. Physical because her H has repeatedly and knowingly caused her health issues through his actions.


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## StoneAngel (Oct 10, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Correct. In the context of rape, coercion means force or the threat of force.
> 
> 
> You are wrong about my logic. Since the man threatened her with force, she was coerced into sex. That is obviously rape.
> ...


Sorry Darling but you need to give up your argument. There does not have to be violence (as you describe it and are fixated on) and does not have to be a threat made to call it rape or sexual assault. If there is a threat made it does not have to be a threat of violence. Coercion can be by means of with holding money from one's spouse, denying access to children, manipulation of children and other family members, isolation and a whole host of other things.

Here is another example of rape that has been prosecuted and won by the crown (it also does not fit your definition)
Woman goes to see her OBGYN. She is there for a pelvic examine. She has consented to a medical procedure that requires digital insertion into her vagina. (also called an internal) While performing the examine the OBGYN removes his medical glove. This woman has been viloated, this is sexual assault under the law and rape....there was no violence, no coercision, no threat etc etc that you keep harping about. It is no less a violation, because she is not bruised. There was no restraints, no weapons....but still it is rape. It does not have the level of violence that you seem to believe must be present in order for it to be called rape, but the law says it is rape! 

It is time for this thread to die. I am going away now.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

StoneAngel said:


> Here is another example of rape that has been prosecuted and won by the crown (it also does not fit your definition)
> Woman goes to see her OBGYN. She is there for a pelvic examine. She has consented to a medical procedure that requires digital insertion into her vagina. (also called an internal) While performing the examine the OBGYN removes his medical glove. This woman has been viloated, this is sexual assault under the law and rape....there was no violence, no coercision, no threat etc etc that you keep harping about. It is no less a violation, because she is not bruised. There was no restraints, no weapons....but still it is rape. It does not have the level of violence that you seem to believe must be present in order for it to be called rape, but the law says it is rape!
> 
> It is time for this thread to die. I am going away now.


Sorry, but you're wrong again. It's obviously a crime. The woman consented to one thing and the doctor did something else. Case closed. He didn't have consent.

Consent has become the issue in this thread. The OP gave her consent for her husband to have anal sex with her. Looks like apples and oranges to me. It amazes me how you can miss that pertinent fact.


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## StoneAngel (Oct 10, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Sorry, but you're wrong again. It's obviously a crime. The woman consented to one thing and the doctor did something else. Case closed. He didn't have consent.
> 
> Consent has become the issue in this thread. The OP gave her consent for her husband to have anal sex with her. Looks like apples and oranges to me. It amazes me how you can miss that pertinent fact.


No I have not forgotten that point. Your emphasis tends to be sway on the level of violence invovled and less on consent. So if it is back to consent.....consent does not have to be rendered by way of yes or no. Go back and read the criminal code I posted. Sexual assualt does not have to have a completion of an act......it only requires an attempt. After the OP said no/its hurts/ I don't want to etc. and the OP was left to believe that the H would proceed regardless of her statements to the contrary that is sexual assault. Further to that if the OP was left believeing her H would not be 'happy" and that H not being happy could negatively affect her life, she is being coerced into an activity, and hence consent is not freely given and it is assault. 

It is a matter much greater than a wife getting her feelings her feelings hurt and much greater than a husband's pesterings.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

StoneAngel said:


> No I have not forgotten that point. Your emphasis tends to be sway on the level of violence invovled and less on consent.


It depends what is being discussed. Rape generally requires violence, or the threat of violence. Non-violent, non-consensual sexual acts are less serious crimes. But sexual crimes all require the act to be non-consensual.



StoneAngel said:


> So if it is back to consent.....consent does not have to be rendered by way of yes or no.


That is true. If a woman is drugged and unconscious, she can't consent. A child can say yes, but legal consent is still not given. However, that isn't the issue here. The OP was conscious and capable and consented.



StoneAngel said:


> Sexual assualt does not have to have a completion of an act......it only requires an attempt.


That's true. A man you don't know attempting you take your clothes off would probably be a crime. Your husband attempting to take your clothes off would not be a crime. Especially if he stopped when you asked. Or, if you went ahead and gave consent for him to take your clothes off.



StoneAngel said:


> After the OP said no/its hurts/ I don't want to etc. and the OP was left to believe that the H would proceed regardless of her statements to the contrary that is sexual assault.


But the OP didn't believe that. She explicitly stated that she did not believe that he would rape her. And, she said that once she firmly told him no, he stopped.



StoneAngel said:


> Further to that if the OP was left believeing her H would not be 'happy" and that H not being happy could negatively affect her life, she is being coerced into an activity, and hence consent is not freely given and it is assault.


Don't be ridiculous. If that is your definition of a crime, than all of life is a crime. Every choice we make is coerced. My children assault me each time they whine and complain about not getting a new toy, or a milkshake. Whining children certainly negatively affect my life. Should I call the police? What could they be charged with?


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## StoneAngel (Oct 10, 2012)

.


Don't be ridiculous. If that is your definition of a crime, than all of life is a crime. Every choice we make is coerced. My children assault me each time they whine and complain about not getting a new toy, or a milkshake. Whining children certainly negatively affect my life. Should I call the police? What could they be charged with?[/QUOTE]

I am not being ridiculous. I have not defined the law and I have not defined this crime. 
The negative impact to one's life only has to be preceived! If there is inuendo that a certain thing will happen if X sexual act is not granted, than consent is coerced. It does not have to be direct. You have no more rights to your wife's body that a stranger. You may in whatever state you live in. But in Canada that is not the case. In Canada women are Persons under the law. We are no longer property or chattle. Therefore a husband does not have more rights or latitude under the law, than a stranger.
You need to stop using your children as examples. Your children are minors and hence or not held accountable for the actions legally until a certain age. Your child is not expected to understand actions and implications of those actions. But an adult male who hears it HURTS is expected under the law to have reasonable awareness and knowledge that his act is causing bodily harm and attempting a second time is a criminal.
offence.
The analogies you keep using in regard to children really speak to the ridiculousness of your point of view....unless that is how you truly regard adult men, who can not control themselves sexually......nothing but children.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

StoneAngel said:


> The negative impact to one's life only has to be preceived! If there is inuendo that a certain thing will happen if X sexual act is not granted, than consent is coerced. It does not have to be direct.


Of course it does. If indirect coercion is sufficient to imprison a man, then men should stop interacting with women. Every woman out there has imbued thoughts or motivations to her boyfriend or husband based on nothing more than her rationalization hamster. We have seen it in this thread. Women start arguing about whether the OP's husband is rapist based on what the OP must have felt. Not based on what she said happened, or what she said she felt.

If you're discussing what she could have felt, or what you might have felt if you were in her situation, then it might be an interesting hypothetical discussion. But, since we're talking about whether or not to imprison a man, it has become a ridiculous and scary witch hunt. Men should act toward women in such a way that even the most hysterical, irrational woman couldn't possibly misconstrue, or be offended by, lest he be jailed. Under such an asinine legal standard, I am thankful for the anonymity of this forum.



StoneAngel said:


> You have no more rights to your wife's body that a stranger. You may in whatever state you live in. But in Canada that is not the case. In Canada women are Persons under the law. We are no longer property or chattle. Therefore a husband does not have more rights or latitude under the law, than a stranger.


Of course he does. In a marriage, there is such a thing as implied consent. If you marry a man, it is understood that you want to have sex with him. If you take a job, it is not understood that you want to have sex with your boss. There is a different standard. Recognizing the difference doesn't reduce women to property. Don't be histrionic.



StoneAngel said:


> You need to stop using your children as examples. Your children are minors and hence or not held accountable for the actions legally until a certain age.


So, if my children were over the age of 18, they would be criminals? Seriously?



StoneAngel said:


> Your child is not expected to understand actions and implications of those actions. But an adult male who hears it HURTS is expected under the law to have reasonable awareness and knowledge that his act is causing bodily harm and attempting a second time is a criminal.
> offence.


Rape has two elements of the crime. Violence and consent. Pain is irrelevant. People engage in consensual painful sexual acts every day. Those people aren't criminals.

Also, it seems as though you don't believe that women have the right to change their minds. If a woman says no, she should be required to stand by her decision no matter what? She can never change her mind to a yes? Because the fact is that the OP originally said no, and then said yes. You seem to argue that she should not be allowed that option. I disagree. I think that women, in general, are competent enough to be able to make that decision without a legislature deciding for her.



StoneAngel said:


> The analogies you keep using in regard to children really speak to the ridiculousness of your point of view....unless that is how you truly regard adult men, who can not control themselves sexually......nothing but children.


I'm not the one arguing that hurting people's feelings, or "negatively affecting their lives," should be a criminal offense. When one has such a ridiculous legal standard for criminal behavior, one should expect ridiculous analogies to come forth. My analogy was only meant to illustrate that such a legal standard is impractical, unfair, and unintelligent.

However, if my using an analogy with children just stumps you, I'll try one with an adult. In my house, I take out the trash. When I take out the trash, my wife is happy. If I don't take out the trash, my wife will be unhappy. Having an unhappy wife will negatively affect my life. I would like to avoid it. Am I, therefore, being coerced to take out the trash? Should I call the police and ask them to imprison my wife? Do you see that the ridiculousness of the logical standard still holds?


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## farside (Oct 27, 2012)

Rape or no rape, its so close that its bad. You need to give him more clearly defined boundaries before you start (Red light/green light). Its not romantic, but if you are this uncomfortable its necessary. If he tries to pressure you after you define the boundary as being "no" don't have sex with him at all. Throw him a bone once in a while, but only if you are comfortable with it.

If you define the boundary as being "no" and he goes for it anyway, thats rape.


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## farside (Oct 27, 2012)

marieh said:


> I realize this thread is probably not going to be seen too much now that it's old, but I would like to say I did not give consent. I told him I didn't want to, he kept trying and ignoring me, pleading and then just got on top of me even though I kept saying I didn't want to. Then I said NO very clearly. But I had already said no many times.
> 
> I have thought about your very kind and thoughtful responses and I think I am need for us to be apart for a while. The comment about how he respects me in other aspects of our marriage (house work, among others) hit home. I have come to the conclusion he doesn't respect me in any way.
> 
> Thank you


I saw this afterwards. That is unquestionably legal rape. If you don't consent (or revoke consent) that's legal rape. There doesn't need to be restraint or harm. If you say "no" and he keeps going with "unlawful carnal knowledge" (that's the legal term) that's rape. Some prosecutors won't bring charges in spousal rape, but its rape. Glad to see you got out of what is an unhealthy situation.


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## frankd (Feb 22, 2012)

marieh, this is a dangerous man.
Do not bother with counselling and especially do not waste time trying to exert your control over this situation. It will only spur him on to find ways to overcome your determination. 
This is a textbook definition of rape. It has happened more than once, and it WILL happen again. Here's why: This is a clear case of escalating assault. 
1. As you assert your position, he will up the ante. 
2. He assaults you, then apologizes and asks forgiveness
3. He's nice at all other times, then disrespects you 

Every time you give in, every time you forgive him, every time you have sex with him - is a win on his scorecard. 

DO call the police, but before you do, prepare a safe house that you can go to. And you must document these incidents to provide backup to what you will say to the police, lawyers, etc. 

Think about this: what future could a woman have with a man who would do this?


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## forevermemorable (Oct 19, 2012)

marieh said:


> I think he is a good guy and he cares about me, I just don't think he can control himself when we are in bed.


When I read your thread, I got really mad at your husband. I just want to punch him. He makes me sick!

I respect that you will see the good in him, but I am prone to tell you the hard cold truth of that matter. Your husband has *NO* respect for you...at least in terms of sexual pleasure. Your husband is utterly and undoubtedly selfish! How dare he try and force himself up the rear. How dare he not listen to the cries of his wife! How dare he try and place you in an uncomfortable place by wanting to inset his junk in your vag. after anal. THAT IS NOT LOVE!!!

I am sorry, but I don't think your husband truly loves you. I know your husband backwards and forwards. The games he is trying to play with you is old high school games...where the boy gives the girl the line, "If you loved me, you would." Okay, maybe your husband has not given that line to you, but by forcing his desires on you is just the same as saying that line. Love does not force! Love does not demand! Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

My heart breaks for you wife. I am sorry you are in this predicament. Your husband needs to respect your boundaries and treat you like a lady. He needs to cherish you, honor you, prize you above all others...including himself. Your desires come FIRST, as far as I am concerned (I am a husband by the way). Any husband who only cares about his own needs, is a selfish arrogant son-of-a you know what.

You know why your husband craves so much anal sex wife...because he has watched too many porn movies. Tainted and distorted sex! Am I saying that anal sex is wrong? No...I think the marriage bed is between an agreement between husband and wife, but hey anal sex is one sided. Delve deep into your husband's life and you will see a man that is addicted to porn.

I am sorry to be so blunt, but your husband's intentions and motives are very much wrong and selfish. Shame on him! You tell him "NO!" If he does not respect that...he needs to leave (I am not saying divorce). He needs to leave and come back only when he is willing to respect you as a lady and love on you and tend to your emotional needs.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

frankd said:


> marieh, this is a dangerous man.
> Do not bother with counselling and especially do not waste time trying to exert your control over this situation. It will only spur him on to find ways to overcome your determination.


There are few things more useless than to read a post, project attitudes and motivations to one of the parties involved, and then post an alarming rebuke based on the fiction you just created. Sadly, there is a lot of that going on in this thread. Inductive reasoning can be useful, but it has its limits. The OP has stated that her husband is disrespectful and she has to be very firm and clear in her rejection of him, or else he doesn't believe her. And if he does believe her, he gets all pissy. Do you think that women are so fragile that they must run away from pissy men to a safe house with police protection? I don't. I think most women can hold their own in a battle of pissy attitudes.


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## frankd (Feb 22, 2012)

Assault is assault with or without attitude. 
And yes, the sad reality is that people do need protection from those who have demonstrated a willingness to harm them. And worse still, is that it is often a woman having to flee from an abusive husband/male partner.
There is no shame in seeking safety. 
I do apologize if I seemed alarmist, but if appeasement worked, there wouldn't be a need for women's shelters, nor legislation forcing police to intervene. All it would take is a calm chat at the kitchen table, and all would be forgotten. I'm sorry, but the news is filled with these cases, all of them ending badly.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

frankd said:


> There is no shame in seeking safety.


That is true. But, the OP explicitly stated that she has never feared for her safety. The only people who are suggesting that she should are anonymous, hysterical people who want to portray a disrespectful husband with a pissy attitude as a dangerous psychopath who just hasn't beaten, or murdered, his wife, *yet*.



frankd said:


> I do apologize if I seemed alarmist, but if appeasement worked, there wouldn't be a need for women's shelters, nor legislation forcing police to intervene. All it would take is a calm chat at the kitchen table, and all would be forgotten. I'm sorry, but the news is filled with these cases, all of them ending badly.


Again, you're equating a husband with a pissy attitude with actual violence. And that does a disservice to victims of actual violence. If women need to flee husbands with pissy attitudes for the safety of shelters, then we don't have nearly enough space in our women's shelters. And it seems very disrespectful of women to suggest that they are so weak that they can't be subjected to men with poor attitudes. Maybe our women's shelters should use fainting couches?

And, at the risk of being stereotypical, I think it's men who are at greater risk for dealing with a pissy spouse than women. Perhaps we need husband's shelters for these men who don't even know that they are in danger. Maybe a place with beer on tap and large televisions showing sporting contests. I know I would rest easier knowing that, the next time my wife gets pissy, I mean dangerous, I have a safe haven where I can toss back a few with my fellow victims.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

I wonder what people on this thread would say about a woman who didnt want to have sex with her husband ever.....and then her husband rolls overone night and begins to kiss her and touch her and she keeps telling him no, not tonight or no, i have a headache. And he keeps trying to kiss and touch her anyway and even starts undressing himself....but she keeps saying, "no, not tonight."

Would that be rape in your opinion?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

missymrs80 said:


> I wonder what people on this thread would say about a woman who didnt want to have sex with her husband ever.....and then her husband rolls overone night and begins to kiss her and touch her and she keeps telling him no, not tonight or no, i have a headache. And he keeps trying to kiss and touch her anyway and even starts undressing himself....but she keeps saying, "no, not tonight."
> 
> Would that be rape in your opinion?


Well, I think it depends. I think that the presumption of consent exists in a marriage. So, the husband doesn't necessarily have to get permission to do anything. The bar to be considered a sexual crime must be higher than that for an acquaintance or stranger. But, spousal rape is possible.

If a husband holds his wife down, puts a knife to her throat and forces himself on her while she is sobbing and fighting and crying out, "no" then it's rape. If a husband walks by his wife and gropes her butt, it may be annoying to the wife, but it's not criminal. Even though the same behavior may be if the husband groped a stranger at the grocery store.

If the wife is giving a "soft" no, then the husband may be justified in trying to break through her resistance. Especially if the wife has a history of eventually granting consent. But, if the wife is giving a firm no, perhaps combined with pushing/fighting him off, then the husband should stop.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I wonder what people on this thread would say about a woman who didnt want to have sex with her husband ever.....and then her husband rolls overone night and begins to kiss her and touch her and she keeps telling him no, not tonight or no, i have a headache. And he keeps trying to kiss and touch her anyway and even starts undressing himself....but she keeps saying, "no, not tonight."
> 
> Would that be rape in your opinion?


I guess that would depend on whether he actually followed through by having intercourse, _despite her continued refusal._ If he did, IMO, it would be marital rape.

Conversely, a woman who_ always _refused to have sex with her husband would, IMO, be guilty of sexual abuse.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

LearninAsWeGo said:


> Homosexuality is almost invariably for people who have been sexually and/or emotionally hurt or abused by the opposite gender. Male homosexuality (or sexual addiction, swinging, other sexual deviance etc) also becomes a lifestyle choice for guys who are pretty perverted and mentally distraught. For women, homosexuality's usually a lifestyle choice made after they are repeatedly rejected (think bull *****) or abused by men at some point. Either way, it's a lifestyle choice... and a very selfish one with serious health consequences.


I was away from this thread, came back to read this, and was surprised and disappointed that nobody said:

Total and absolute BS.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

For what it's worth, here is the California statute on this subject:

"Penal Code 262. (a) Rape of a person who is the spouse of the perpetrator is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished under any of the following circumstances:

(1) Where it is accomplished against a person's will by means of force, violence, duress, menace, or fear of immediate and unlawful bodily injury on the person or another. "

Duress is defined as " a direct or implied threat of force, violence, danger, or retribution sufficient to coerce a reasonable person of ordinary susceptibilities to perform an act which otherwise would not have been performed, or acquiesce in an act to which one otherwise would not have submitted. The total circumstances, including the age of the victim, and his or her relationship to the defendant, are factors to consider in apprising the existence of duress."

Menace is defined as "any threat, declaration, or act that shows an intention to inflict an injury upon another."

There are numerous other definitions based on the spouse's being drugged, asleep, unconscious, mentally impaired, etc., but they would not apply here.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I wonder what people on this thread would say about a woman who didnt want to have sex with her husband ever.....and then her husband rolls overone night and begins to kiss her and touch her and she keeps telling him no, not tonight or no, i have a headache. And he keeps trying to kiss and touch her anyway and even starts undressing himself....but she keeps saying, "no, not tonight."
> 
> Would that be rape in your opinion?


With the facts you've provided: no, not yet.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

I'm not going to wade through all the legalize to determine what is/isn't rape. 

To me, if a woman (or man) says no, then that's where it should stop. I have never tried to keep going when I've been told no by that a woman I'm with. I've even stopped in the middle of sex twice where she started to get uncomfortable. Stopped right there and pulled out. Was it hard to stop? Sure was, but I'm not some greedy prick who values his own orgasm more than the well-being of another person.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

LearninAsWeGo said:


> You'd be suprised, buddy... you'd be suprised.
> 
> Homosexuality is almost invariably for people who have been sexually and/or emotionally hurt or abused by the opposite gender. Male homosexuality (or sexual addiction, swinging, other sexual deviance etc) also becomes a lifestyle choice for guys who are pretty perverted and mentally distraught. For women, homosexuality's usually a lifestyle choice made after they are repeatedly rejected (think bull *****) or abused by men at some point. Either way, it's a lifestyle choice... and a very selfish one with serious health consequences.
> 
> If he's doing this abuse to his wife and fixated on anal low intimacy sex, he's obviously not all there mentally. My suspicion would be pretty high that he will be coming out of the closet soon. JMO


I just....I have no words.


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## Madman1 (Oct 24, 2012)

AsTheStoryGoes said:


> If he can't learn to respect you or your body, cut him off. THIS IS NOT OKAY.


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