# Husband wants things I am not comfortable with



## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

When H and I met..17 years ago, I was a mere 21 and just recovering from a 5 year long self destructive period. I had PTSD from several sexual assaults, I was still depressed from my BF suicide and death when I was 18 and recovering from substance and alcohol abuse. Anyways, when we met I was very adventurous in the bedroom and was down with trying just about anything..I was like this the first few years we dated and then things changed for me. I no longer found it exciting but found it vulgar and somewhat violent. Things we did in our early years left me feeling disgusted and violated. Fast forward 17 years and 2 kids plus (3 SS) and my H still tries to push me to do several things that I just absolutely do not want to do. I do not find them pleasurable at all... I have told him this repeatedly and he always says well it never bothered u before why is it now? I give him the honest answer and he just goes off the wall and says its because i am cheating or something stupid. He also claims it isn't right for me to make him feel disgusting or shameful for wanting to do certain things with his wife. Even tho I have clearly and honestly explained why I do not want to do these handful of things, he continues to try it while we are in the bedroom. If he doesn't get his way he will even try it while I am asleep. I am getting really pissed off about this. I still have PTSD from past sexual abuse, I still have triggers that can put me into a funk and he doesn't seem to care one bit that when he tries those things they are a trigger and I am reliving a nightmare in my head. Do any other women have issues even remotely similar with their husbands? How else can I get him to understand that this is not a game, I am not a prude but that these acts seriously affect me..even if they didn't when i was in my early 20s. I don't know why it changed..it just did.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

No one who loves you wants to hurt you. Full stop.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

You have absolutely every right to so no to anything that makes you uncomfortable or upsets you.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

No one should be forced into unwanted sexual acts.

I noticed all your posts are something that H is, has done, or causing problems.

You have to ask yourself is there anything you like about your H? This post that he now wants to force you to have sex in a variety of ways that were previously fun, but have to stop, seems the icing on the cake. So why stay with him?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

What sort of things? I'm asking because you said a "handful". Based on what I've learned over the years, there are typically only one or two things that are off the table. Even then, as RR says, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. Normally no explanation should be necessary, but in the interest of your relationship with your husband, you may choose to share. He should appreciate and respect your position.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> No one should be forced into unwanted sexual acts.
> 
> I noticed all your posts are something that H is, has done, or causing problems.
> 
> You have to ask yourself is there anything you like about your H? This post that he now wants to force you to have sex in a variety of ways that were previously fun, but have to stop, seems the icing on the cake. So why stay with him?


Family dynamics is the reason I stay. One of our children is autistic, so separation will cause him a great deal of suffering and to say it will be very very difficult for him is putting it lightly . Another reason, as said in my past posts, is that H will do everything in his power to ensure I lose my children along with everything else. While I am not scared one bit to have nothing to my name, i am scared of losing my children. He was able to take my 3 SS away from his XW who was a stay at home mom and he was granted full custody by telling lies that he convinced his sons to go along with. He will try to do the same to me and my biggest fear is that he will succeed. There are still many things about him I do like..even love. Aside from his narcissism he actually has many good qualities that are hard to find in todays world. Even so, the love I have left for him is not why I stay..it is for the reasons stated above. I still have 1 SS living with us and he will most definitely testify against me in any way he can to ensure his dad wins. I have an appt with a lawyer to discuss these things to see my options.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

You know, trying to have sex with you while asleep without consent is the same as attempting rape, even if you are married. I realize you are sticking around for the kids, but have you considered not sleeping in the same bed as him? Normally I would never suggest this, but all of your posts lead me to believe you would leave if you felt you had a choice. Your husband doesn't love you. I think you've said he often forgets you even exist. And on top of that he wants you to be his compliant sex toy.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

Sfort said:


> What sort of things? I'm asking because you said a "handful". Based on what I've learned over the years, there are typically only one or two things that are off the table. Even then, as RR says, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. Normally no explanation should be necessary, but in the interest of your relationship with your husband, you may choose to share. He should appreciate and respect your position.


Well things such as back door, choking, spanking, being tied up..etc.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Well things such as back door, choking, spanking, being tied up..etc.


If it something you don't enjoy or can't stand, then you shouldn't do it and he should have stopped asking after the first, maybe 2nd time he asked. But again, he doesn't really care about you or your feelings, it is all about him.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> If it something you don't enjoy or can't stand, then you shouldn't do it and he should have stopped asking after the first, maybe 2nd time he asked. But again, he doesn't really care about you or your feelings, it is all about him.


I agree..he is being insensitive and selfish. His makes the same remark every time well u used to like it..and i say no, in all honesty i never liked it, I just allowed things to happen because my trauma was still fairly fresh and still being processed. He says that makes no sense, that I am just making excuses up and that he should not have to suffer sexually because of my past. So i tell him go **** somebody else then if u cant bear going without a couple things.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> I agree..he is being insensitive and selfish. His makes the same remark every time well u used to like it..and i say no, in all honesty i never liked it, I just allowed things to happen because my trauma was still fairly fresh and still being processed. He says that makes no sense, that I am just making excuses up and that he should not have to suffer sexually because of my past. So i tell him go **** somebody else then if u cant bear going without a couple things.


Poor guy, suffering because he can't spank and choke you. lol


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Poor guy, suffering because he can't spank and choke you. lol


Tell me about...typical narcissist always victimizing himself while he is the offender. He gets no sympathy from me..he can gladly seek sex elsewhere as long as he isn't double dipping and leaves me be. I'm too old to have to worry about STDs and crap like that.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Well things such as back door, choking, spanking, being tied up..etc.


Based on what you have said about his lies, manipulation, trying to force himself on you while sleeping, and the sexual acts like choking. I would be very cautious around this guy. He sounds like a ticking mental case. It also sounds like he does just enough loving to keep you from leaving. You sound like a good person and a great mom. No one deserves this kind of treatment. I am so sorry for your situation.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Well things such as back door, choking, spanking, being tied up..etc.


So he wants to hurt you. This is NOT BDSM, because BDSM is mutual. This man is very, very dangerous. I hear what you're saying about your children, there is no question he would lie and try to take your kids away. I understand why you stay, who knows what he would do to the children if you weren't there. I'm so so sorry.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Women who have been sexually abused (raises hand) will very often allow things when they are young that they don’t feel they have the right to say no to. As they grow up, they realize that yes they can disallow things they aren’t comfortable with any longer — or never really were but went along with for whatever reason. There are some men like your husband who feel if you ever did it once then you should continue forever but you always have the right to say no — especially when it’s someone like him.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You know, trying to have sex with you while asleep without consent is the same as attempting rape, even if you are married. I realize you are sticking around for the kids, but have you considered not sleeping in the same bed as him? Normally I would never suggest this, but all of your posts lead me to believe you would leave if you felt you had a choice. Your husband doesn't love you. I think you've said he often forgets you even exist. And on top of that he wants you to be his compliant sex toy.


Oh he knows I exist..lol. with the list of expectations I am given..he must. But he doesn't truly care about me..he is a narcissist and is really only capable of loving himself and his mother. The rest is fake..things he has picked up on over the years to appear normal and caring. A wolf in sheeps clothing. He can fool many..but not me. Very little that comes out of his mouth is either genuine or sincere..Ive known this for quite some time. But he is a damned pro at fooling everyone else, if he wasn't then it would be easier to leave.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> Women who have been sexually abused (raises hand) will very often allow things when they are young that they don’t feel they have the right to say no to. As they grow up, they realize that yes they can disallow things they aren’t comfortable with any longer — or never really were but went along with for whatever reason. There are some men like your husband who feel if you ever did it once then you should continue forever but you always have the right to say no — especially when it’s someone like him.


Thank you, I have spoke with other women who have said the same things you just did . It's reassuring to know that I am not nuts..and that sexual abuse can affect people differently.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Oh he knows I exist..lol. with the list of expectations I am given..he must. But he doesn't truly care about me..he is a narcissist and is really only capable of loving himself and his mother. The rest is fake..things he has picked up on over the years to appear normal and caring. A wolf in sheeps clothing. He can fool many..but not me. Very little that comes out of his mouth is either genuine or sincere..Ive known this for quite some time. But he is a damned pro at fooling everyone else, if he wasn't then it would be easier to leave.


Start recording things in the house, put money to the side, gather and make copies of all important financial documents. If you have social media,start posting videos and pictures of you and your kids doing activities together to establish a pattern of being a good mom.

I am not saying you are. But if, and only if you have problems with drugs or alcohol. Then check into a program to get that out of the way. I also encourage you to see a psychiatrist and psychologist who can give a professional assessment that you are of sound mind and capable of being a mother. Also get advice from them on how to handle your circumstances. They are experienced in this area and see this scenario in their field. A judge will also take them very seriously.

But setup that hidden camera and get the evidence needed to bust that bast*Rd for marital rape and to expose him for who he is. There is nothing he could do or say to get full custody..... I am rooting for you. You seem ready for change and a battle. Spend a few months or whatever is needed to get all the evidence you need for this battle.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> When H and I met..17 years ago, I was a mere 21 and just recovering from a 5 year long self destructive period. I had PTSD from several sexual assaults, I was still depressed from my BF suicide and death when I was 18 and recovering from substance and alcohol abuse. Anyways, when we met I was very adventurous in the bedroom and was down with trying just about anything..I was like this the first few years we dated and then things changed for me. I no longer found it exciting but found it vulgar and somewhat violent. Things we did in our early years left me feeling disgusted and violated. Fast forward 17 years and 2 kids plus (3 SS) and my H still tries to push me to do several things that I just absolutely do not want to do. I do not find them pleasurable at all... I have told him this repeatedly and he always says well it never bothered u before why is it now? I give him the honest answer and he just goes off the wall and says its because i am cheating or something stupid. He also claims it isn't right for me to make him feel disgusting or shameful for wanting to do certain things with his wife. Even tho I have clearly and honestly explained why I do not want to do these handful of things, he continues to try it while we are in the bedroom. If he doesn't get his way he will even try it while I am asleep. I am getting really pissed off about this. I still have PTSD from past sexual abuse, I still have triggers that can put me into a funk and he doesn't seem to care one bit that when he tries those things they are a trigger and I am reliving a nightmare in my head. Do any other women have issues even remotely similar with their husbands? How else can I get him to understand that this is not a game, I am not a prude but that these acts seriously affect me..even if they didn't when i was in my early 20s. I don't know why it changed..it just did.


I don't think you will be able to get him to understand it the way he needs to. It's all about him and it always will be, if he really is a narcissist. 

When my wife and I were younger she would do the same sorts of variety/level of things as you mentioned here. Now she has absolutely no desire for anything beyond what I'd consider very vanilla/limited. Similar reasoning as you with how she feels about those acts, and they remind her of previous sexual trauma. 

She gets no enjoyment whatsoever out of doing them anymore. For a while she would force herself to get through it but she can't even do that anymore - nor do I want her to. I don't want her forcing herself to do something to make me happy, I don't want her to be/feel miserable, and I don't want her thinking about what other men did to her while she's with me. I understand her reasoning, but it's still not always easy. I still have the "well you used to do..." thoughts but I keep them to myself. I still get bored at times and sometimes its obvious to her. And I still push it a little bit sometimes even though I know I shouldn't, and she still occasionally tries but it doesn't work out at all and just makes a mess of a situation.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Thank you, I have spoke with other women who have said the same things you just did . It's reassuring to know that I am not nuts..and that sexual abuse can affect people differently.


Yes and the real shame it people done get that. If you husband came here he would be told by many... Oh she's having and affair or she just isn't into you sexually divorce her. There seems to be real lack of understanding of how sexual abuse effects women and how as they age and gain more self esteem things change.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

It sounds like a divorce is needed so you can both get what you want.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Start recording things in the house, put money to the side, gather and make copies of all important financial documents. If you have social media,start posting videos and pictures of you and your kids doing activities together to establish a pattern of being a good mom.
> 
> I am not saying you are. But if, and only if you have problems with drugs or alcohol. Then check into a program to get that out of the way. I also encourage you to see a psychiatrist and psychologist who can give a professional assessment that you are of sound mind and capable of being a mother. Also get advice from them on how to handle your circumstances. They are experienced in this area and see this scenario in their field. A judge will also take them very seriously.
> 
> But setup that hidden camera and get the evidence needed to bust that bast*Rd for marital rape and to expose him for who he is. There is nothing he could do or say to get full custody..... I am rooting for you. You seem ready for change and a battle. Spend a few months or whatever is needed to get all the evidence you need for this battle.


Thank you so much for your advice. I do not have substance issues and havent for many years. I have 1 to 2 drinks several days a week..my H polishes off a 5th of bourbon every day and half. I have started many of these steps already, but he makes it very difficult for me to do or go anywhere alone. Generally I am almost always saddled with our kids..and if I choose to have 19 yo SS watch them so I can leave, I am fully interrogated and expected to text every detail as to my whereabouts. I am "allowed" to do very little. He doesn't necessarily say no to me going places or doing things..he is much more manipulative in his approaches. "Why would u want to go anywhere without me, I dont do things without you" " why would u not want the kids to go, thats not being a very good mom, they love you" " doesn't our family make u happy, why would u want to see your friends instead of your own kids or husband" "Isnt your friend going through a divorce, she just wants to suck u in and put ideas in your head, why do u still talk to her, so u can leave me too?" etc and if i still choose to do something or go somewhere I know to expect a huge monstrous fight upon my return, so I usually opt out because these things have worn me out. The way a narcissist isolates someone is not direct..it is done slyly, indirectly and through very polished manipulation. And if that doesn't work then they will choose to make things really ugly. Narcissists cannot stand to not have control, whenever they feel they are losing control or power they rear their ugly heads and try to crush you in a more direct and barbaric way. Basically by any means necessary to regain their position over you.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Thank you so much for your advice. I do not have substance issues and havent for many years. I have 1 to 2 drinks several days a week..my H polishes off a 5th of bourbon every day and half. I have started many of these steps already, but he makes it very difficult for me to do or go anywhere alone. Generally I am almost always saddled with our kids..and if I choose to have 19 yo SS watch them so I can leave, I am fully interrogated and expected to text every detail as to my whereabouts. I am "allowed" to do very little. He doesn't necessarily say no to me going places or doing things..he is much more manipulative in his approaches. "Why would u want to go anywhere without me, I dont do things without you" " why would u not want the kids to go, thats not being a very good mom, they love you" " doesn't our family make u happy, why would u want to see your friends instead of your own kids or husband" "Isnt your friend going through a divorce, she just wants to suck u in and put ideas in your head, why do u still talk to her, so u can leave me too?" etc and if i still choose to do something or go somewhere I know to expect a huge monstrous fight upon my return, so I usually opt out because these things have worn me out. The way a narcissist isolates someone is not direct..it is done slyly, indirectly and through very polished manipulation. And if that doesn't work then they will choose to make things really ugly. Narcissists cannot stand to not have control, whenever they feel they are losing control or power they rear their ugly heads and try to crush you in a more direct and barbaric way. Basically by any means necessary to regain their position over you.


Use his text messages against him. If you play it smart, you can absolutely use text messages to show how controlling he is. Just stay calm and collected and save all his nasty texts


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> When H and I met..17 years ago, I was a mere 21 and just recovering from a 5 year long self destructive period. I had PTSD from several sexual assaults, I was still depressed from my BF suicide and death when I was 18 and recovering from substance and alcohol abuse. Anyways, when we met I was very adventurous in the bedroom and was down with trying just about anything..I was like this the first few years we dated and then things changed for me. I no longer found it exciting but found it vulgar and somewhat violent. Things we did in our early years left me feeling disgusted and violated. Fast forward 17 years and 2 kids plus (3 SS) and my H still tries to push me to do several things that I just absolutely do not want to do. I do not find them pleasurable at all... I have told him this repeatedly and he always says well it never bothered u before why is it now? I give him the honest answer and he just goes off the wall and says its because i am cheating or something stupid. He also claims it isn't right for me to make him feel disgusting or shameful for wanting to do certain things with his wife. Even tho I have clearly and honestly explained why I do not want to do these handful of things, he continues to try it while we are in the bedroom. If he doesn't get his way he will even try it while I am asleep. I am getting really pissed off about this. I still have PTSD from past sexual abuse, I still have triggers that can put me into a funk and he doesn't seem to care one bit that when he tries those things they are a trigger and I am reliving a nightmare in my head. Do any other women have issues even remotely similar with their husbands? How else can I get him to understand that this is not a game, I am not a prude but that these acts seriously affect me..even if they didn't when i was in my early 20s. I don't know why it changed..it just did.


That's rape when he tries to do it whether you want to or not. You need to decide whether to stay with him or not. He doesn't want to understand or he would. When you're young you try things and then if you don't like them you stop doing them and it is a no-brainer that most women do not want to keep doing things that only paid or enslaved prostitutes are willing to do.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Thank you so much for your advice. I do not have substance issues and havent for many years. I have 1 to 2 drinks several days a week..my H polishes off a 5th of bourbon every day and half. I have started many of these steps already, but he makes it very difficult for me to do or go anywhere alone. Generally I am almost always saddled with our kids..and if I choose to have 19 yo SS watch them so I can leave, I am fully interrogated and expected to text every detail as to my whereabouts. I am "allowed" to do very little. He doesn't necessarily say no to me going places or doing things..he is much more manipulative in his approaches. "Why would u want to go anywhere without me, I dont do things without you" " why would u not want the kids to go, thats not being a very good mom, they love you" " doesn't our family make u happy, why would u want to see your friends instead of your own kids or husband" "Isnt your friend going through a divorce, she just wants to suck u in and put ideas in your head, why do u still talk to her, so u can leave me too?" etc and if i still choose to do something or go somewhere I know to expect a huge monstrous fight upon my return, so I usually opt out because these things have worn me out. The way a narcissist isolates someone is not direct..it is done slyly, indirectly and through very polished manipulation. And if that doesn't work then they will choose to make things really ugly. Narcissists cannot stand to not have control, whenever they feel they are losing control or power they rear their ugly heads and try to crush you in a more direct and barbaric way. Basically by any means necessary to regain their position over you.


The M sounds horrible. 

Now, you know you said you have one to two drinks several days a week. You know that's every day of the week, right?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The M sounds horrible.
> 
> Now, you know you said you have one to two drinks several days a week. You know that's every day of the week, right?


OP, I bet if you went to AA it would clarify what you need to do and be a lot easier to think after you were sober. I can certainly see why that would make you drink though but you need to get away from all that.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The M sounds horrible.
> 
> Now, you know you said you have one to two drinks several days a week. You know that's every day of the week, right?


Yes, I do have a beer in the evening when I dont work..nothing strong..mich ultra or similar. And its no problem for me not to..I go without alcohol many days, weeks or even months. My substance abuse issues happened from ages 16 to 20. It was a short lived self destructive phase. I watch my drinking very carefully tho, both my parents are alcoholics, one functional, one not. If ever in the past I felt like alcohol was controlling or necessary in my life I quit altogether. I also went to AL ANON for several years to understand my parents drinking problems as well as my own at that time.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Yes, I do have a beer in the evening when I dont work..nothing strong..mich ultra or similar. And its no problem for me not to..I go without alcohol many days, weeks or even months. My substance abuse issues happened from ages 16 to 20. It was a short lived self destructive phase. I watch my drinking very carefully tho, both my parents are alcoholics, one functional, one not. If ever in the past I felt like alcohol was controlling or necessary in my life I quit altogether. I also went to AL ANON for several years to understand my parents drinking problems as well as my own at that time.


I hope you never did the AA 13th step.

You're doing good, keep thinking about your future even if it requires D.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> OP, I bet if you went to AA it would clarify what you need to do and be a lot easier to think after you were sober. I can certainly see why that would make you drink though but you need to get away from all that.


I know alcohol is not a good coping mechanism..I do not drink excessively by any means though. Most women my age that I know drink several glasses of wine at least half the week. I might go through a 6 pack of mich ultra or white claw over a week long period. My parents are alcoholics and so is one of my siblings..I monitor myself very closely and would stop drinking altogether if it seemed to be a problem.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I hope you never did the AA 13th step.
> 
> You're doing good, keep thinking about your future even if it requires D.


What's the 13th step?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Well things such as back door, choking, spanking, being tied up..etc.


If you have told him that certain things are off limits but he still tries them and even tries them when you are asleep that is plain wrong. Any violence such as trying to choke you and hit you and tie you up against your will is abuse plain and simple. 
I just couldn't stay with a guy who did that.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

The thing about narcissists - they know right from wrong, they just don’t care. I fear you’ve wasted a good part of your life with this man. Not meaning he is your whole life and you have no joy or anything meaningful despite him. But for all of his somewhat positive qualities, they’re overshadowed by the narcissism. I dated a narcissist before I met my husband and they’re absolutely exhausting. I hope you choose to leave someday because he and this won’t ever change.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> When H and I met..17 years ago, I was a mere 21 and just recovering from a 5 year long self destructive period. I had PTSD from several sexual assaults, I was still depressed from my BF suicide and death when I was 18 and recovering from substance and alcohol abuse. Anyways, when we met I was very adventurous in the bedroom and was down with trying just about anything..I was like this the first few years we dated and then things changed for me. I no longer found it exciting but found it vulgar and somewhat violent. Things we did in our early years left me feeling disgusted and violated. Fast forward 17 years and 2 kids plus (3 SS) and my H still tries to push me to do several things that I just absolutely do not want to do. I do not find them pleasurable at all... I have told him this repeatedly and he always says well it never bothered u before why is it now? I give him the honest answer and he just goes off the wall and says its because i am cheating or something stupid. *He also claims it isn't right for me to make him feel disgusting or shameful for wanting to do certain things with his wife.* Even tho I have clearly and honestly explained why I do not want to do these handful of things, he continues to try it while we are in the bedroom. If he doesn't get his way he will even try it while I am asleep. I am getting really pissed off about this. I still have PTSD from past sexual abuse, I still have triggers that can put me into a funk and he doesn't seem to care one bit that when he tries those things they are a trigger and I am reliving a nightmare in my head. Do any other women have issues even remotely similar with their husbands? How else can I get him to understand that this is not a game, I am not a prude but that these acts seriously affect me..even if they didn't when i was in my early 20s. I don't know why it changed..it just did.


This is the only thing that he got right about it. It is not right for you to shame him or any such thing. Now, that may not be what you are actually doing, and he is just saying that to shift blame on you. But the statement by itself is true.

You have absolutely every right to change what you find acceptable or unacceptable sexually, and to set and change your hard limits. It doesn't matter what you used to do and find acceptable. What's important is what you are willing to consent to now.

You are going to have to put your foot down and make it very clear to him that his trying to do things with you, especially with you asleep and not having given consent prior, is sexual assault and/or rape. And you cannot just assert that to him. You have to be able to follow through if he tries it again. Even if you end up dropping the charges the first time you have to report him. But you have to get him to understand that he is assaulting you. Marriage does not give him license to have sex with you when or how you don't want it. 

I am guessing that these things are of a BDSM nature. Despite misconceptions to the contrary, most BDSM plays do not have to involve actual sex. They _can_, but don't have to. _*IF *_you are alright with him seeking those things outside the marriage, then maybe offer that option up. If that is not something that you can deal with, you might have to make it very clear to him that you will divorce him if he will not give up trying to get those plays out of you. Not knowing what he is asking for and what your limits are, the only other thing to look at is if there are plays he wants that you are alright with, then consider making it clear that you will only do those things. But again, you have every right to set where your hard limits are and he is required to respect them or he is guilty of sexual assaults/rape.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Family dynamics is the reason I stay. One of our children is autistic, so separation will cause him a great deal of suffering and to say it will be very very difficult for him is putting it lightly . Another reason, as said in my past posts, is that H will do everything in his power to ensure I lose my children along with everything else. While I am not scared one bit to have nothing to my name, i am scared of losing my children. He was able to take my 3 SS away from his XW who was a stay at home mom and he was granted full custody by telling lies that he convinced his sons to go along with. He will try to do the same to me and my biggest fear is that he will succeed. There are still many things about him I do like..even love. Aside from his narcissism he actually has many good qualities that are hard to find in todays world. Even so, the love I have left for him is not why I stay..it is for the reasons stated above. I still have 1 SS living with us and he will most definitely testify against me in any way he can to ensure his dad wins. I have an appt with a lawyer to discuss these things to see my options.


This is where making the point of sexual assault/rape comes into play. Make sure that you bring this up to your lawyer. You might even be able to get court permission to secretly record him pushing you towards these acts, admitting to trying to do so even when you are asleep or something to that affect. His being a rapist will certainly count against him as far as custody goes.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

maquiscat said:


> This is the only thing that he got right about it. It is not right for you to shame him or any such thing. Now, that may not be what you are actually doing, and he is just saying that to shift blame on you. But the statement by itself is true.
> 
> You have absolutely every right to change what you find acceptable or unacceptable sexually, and to set and change your hard limits. It doesn't matter what you used to do and find acceptable. What's important is what you are willing to consent to now.
> 
> ...


I have told him that if he really needs those things to seek it elsewhere..just to leave me be..no double dipping. Personally I feel the only person that can allow what he wants as frequently as he wants is going to be a porn star or possible another man. He wont agree to seek it elsewhere...tho he may have already done so secretly..because he worries I will stray as well. Which Ive given him no reason to think that..but again he is a narcissist and has to gas light and shift blame with everything.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> I have told him that if he really needs those things to seek it elsewhere..just to leave me be..no double dipping. Personally I feel the only person that can allow what he wants as frequently as he wants is going to be a porn star or possible another man. He wont agree to seek it elsewhere...tho he may have already done so secretly..because he worries I will stray as well. Which Ive given him no reason to think that..but again he is a narcissist and has to gas light and shift blame with everything.


If he goes outside the marriage, instead of being the victim of a “frigid and neglectful” wife, he is instead exposed for the rotten, selfish garbage he is.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If he goes outside the marriage, instead of being the victim of a “frigid and neglectful” wife, he is instead exposed for the rotten, selfish garbage he is.


Or at least "admittedly " goes outside the marriage..lol.. God only knows what he has actually done the past 17 years..I certainly don't want to know..lol


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Or at least "admittedly " goes outside the marriage..lol.. God only knows what he has actually done the past 17 years..I certainly don't want to know..lol


You probably don’t. It would probably be smart to be tested regularly. I’m so sorry. I wish we could take him alligator hunting or feed him some of Earl’s black eyed peas that taste a little funny.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You probably don’t. It would probably be smart to be tested regularly. I’m so sorry. I wish we could take him alligator hunting or feed him some of Earl’s black eyed peas that taste a little funny.


I am so grateful for having found TAM..this is the 1st time Ive ever been able to speak openly and honestly about what I have been living through. The support and advice I have received since joining has made a monumental difference in my life. For the first time in a very long time I don't feel alone. ❤


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

So first of all, for your own benefit you should try to get some help for your PTSD, I speak from experience, it's a hard thing to live with.

Besides that you are allowed to have preferences in your life. You are always allowed to say no. Now I do think it is a good strategy to be at least willing to try new things, even if you don't get a lot of pleasure out of it. This is being a giving lover, an that is what everyone wants. 
However that is very different when doing something makes you feel uncomfortable from some past trauma. It's even OK if he is disappointed but that is where it needs to stop. Isn't your well being more important to him. He should not be guilting and pressuring you.

I do agree that you shouldn't shame just for wanting to do things with his wife, assuming he is not asking you to do anything immoral. But you have to wonder if that is the case or he is just projecting.

Your husband doesn't sound like a very nice man or a good husband, so I am wondering how much that plays into this. Like maybe if you feel emotionally safe and close to him you would be more adventurous.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

sokillme said:


> So first of all, for your own benefit you should try to get some help for your PTSD, I speak from experience, it's a hard thing to live with.
> 
> Besides that you are allowed to have preferences in your life. You are always allowed to say no. Now I do think it is a good strategy to be at least willing to try new things, even if you don't get a lot of pleasure out of it. This is being a giving lover, an that is what everyone wants.
> However that is very different when doing something makes you feel uncomfortable from some past trauma. It's even OK if he is disappointed but that is where it needs to stop. Isn't your well being more important to him. He should not be guilting and pressuring you.
> ...


Other than telling him very kindly and carefully that I didn't like being choked or getting it up the rear..the only thing I accidentally made him feel shame for was when he asked about getting a sex swing. I laughed cuz i didnt know what it was and then jokingly said..well where would we put that when we have kids in and out of the bedroom. He then suggested we build a secret sex chamber and that did make me feel uncomfortable due to some of the things he already tries to do and I said kindly..I dont think we need that.."once the kids are grown we will have free range of the house".


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Thank you so much for your advice. I do not have substance issues and havent for many years. I have 1 to 2 drinks several days a week..my H polishes off a 5th of bourbon every day and half. I have started many of these steps already, but he makes it very difficult for me to do or go anywhere alone. Generally I am almost always saddled with our kids..and if I choose to have 19 yo SS watch them so I can leave, I am fully interrogated and expected to text every detail as to my whereabouts. I am "allowed" to do very little. He doesn't necessarily say no to me going places or doing things..he is much more manipulative in his approaches. "Why would u want to go anywhere without me, I dont do things without you" " why would u not want the kids to go, thats not being a very good mom, they love you" " doesn't our family make u happy, why would u want to see your friends instead of your own kids or husband" "Isnt your friend going through a divorce, she just wants to suck u in and put ideas in your head, why do u still talk to her, so u can leave me too?" etc and if i still choose to do something or go somewhere I know to expect a huge monstrous fight upon my return, so I usually opt out because these things have worn me out. The way a narcissist isolates someone is not direct..it is done slyly, indirectly and through very polished manipulation. And if that doesn't work then they will choose to make things really ugly. Narcissists cannot stand to not have control, whenever they feel they are losing control or power they rear their ugly heads and try to crush you in a more direct and barbaric way. Basically by any means necessary to regain their position over you.


Contact an abuse hotline or local abuse charity. He has to go to work right? You have that time at least. Get the support structure with the experts who know what the abusive language is and can testify as to what is and isn't gaslighting and other abusive wording.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> I am so grateful for having found TAM..this is the 1st time Ive ever been able to speak openly and honestly about what I have been living through. The support and advice I have received since joining has made a monumental difference in my life. For the first time in a very long time I don't feel alone. ❤


You are not alone. ❤ You can vent any time you need to.

The best advice I’ve ever gotten came from my grandmother: “You do the best that you can for as long as you can, and then you save yourself.”

The one thing about narcissists is they think they are the smartest person in every room. He’ll trip up. Give it time. And when he does, take your children and run.

Part of me wonders if he’s not making these over-the-top sexual demands to get YOU to leave. He’s pushing you so you are the one who ends the marriage and he doesn’t have to be the bad guy.

Don’t listen to “don’t shame him” talk. He’s wanting to hurt you. He’s wrong and should be ashamed. These aren’t preferences, they’re abuse.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Other than telling him very kindly and carefully that I didn't like being choked or getting it up the rear..the only thing I accidentally made him feel shame for was when he asked about getting a sex swing. I laughed cuz i didnt know what it was and then jokingly said..well where would we put that when we have kids in and out of the bedroom. He then suggested we build a secret sex chamber and that did make me feel uncomfortable due to some of the things he already tries to do and I said kindly..I dont think we need that.."once the kids are grown we will have free range of the house".


Yeah figured it was something like that.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Tell me about...typical narcissist always victimizing himself while he is the offender. He gets no sympathy from me..he can gladly seek sex elsewhere as long as he isn't double dipping and leaves me be. I'm too old to have to worry about STDs and crap like that.


Have you given this some serious thought? I think this could be a good option for you at this point and it'll be sort of a win-win situation for all. This way he'll leave you alone and he'll likely be mellow at home after draining his ba11s.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Asterix said:


> Have you given this some serious thought? I think this could be a good option for you at this point and it'll be sort of a win-win situation for all. This way he'll leave you alone and he'll likely be mellow at home after draining his ba11s.


The post you quoted is the original poster's answer. So it would seem she gave it serious thought as she gave him this option and posted about it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Well things such as back door, choking, spanking, being tied up..etc.


Criminologists say people who like to do that choking stuff are seriously dangerous and very often cross the line if that's their fantasy. 

If he's really wanting to do that, I don't think you should even stay in the same house with him.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Criminologists say people who like to do *that choking stuff* are seriously dangerous and very often cross the line if that's their fantasy.
> 
> If he's really wanting to do that, I don't think you should even stay in the same house with him.


Errr, some like that. I'm not joking.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> I agree..he is being insensitive and selfish. His makes the same remark every time well u used to like it..and i say no, in all honesty i never liked it, I just allowed things to happen because my trauma was still fairly fresh and still being processed. He says that makes no sense, that I am just making excuses up and that he should not have to suffer sexually because of my past. So i tell him go **** somebody else then if u cant bear going without a couple things.


It's marital rape. Do not tolerate it.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> Family dynamics is the reason I stay. One of our children is autistic, so separation will cause him a great deal of suffering and to say it will be very very difficult for him is putting it lightly . Another reason, as said in my past posts, is that H will do everything in his power to ensure I lose my children along with everything else. While I am not scared one bit to have nothing to my name, i am scared of losing my children. He was able to take my 3 SS away from his XW who was a stay at home mom and he was granted full custody by telling lies that he convinced his sons to go along with. He will try to do the same to me and my biggest fear is that he will succeed. There are still many things about him I do like..even love. Aside from his narcissism he actually has many good qualities that are hard to find in todays world. Even so, the love I have left for him is not why I stay..it is for the reasons stated above. I still have 1 SS living with us and he will most definitely testify against me in any way he can to ensure his dad wins. I have an appt with a lawyer to discuss these things to see my options.


In regards to custody of the children, leave the husband or get him to leave and file for custody of your children. I assume there is no custody agreement in place right now. From my understanding, if you and your husband split up, either one of you could file for custody. I'm in Canada and things could be different where you are. You have an appointment with a lawyer, right? Ask the lawyer the steps for you to file for custody.

Find organizations for abused women and call them to get information and the help you need to get you away from this man.

If you can't call them, see if you can find one where you can text them or chat online.

Delete your web browser's history after you've searched for organizations that help abused women. You don't want your husband seeing your search history. Also, it might be wise to delete their phone numbers from your recent calls on your phone too, in case he checks your phone.

When you speak to an organization, tell them you have an autistic child who you will need help with if you leave your husband and that is a reason you're hesitant to leave. The hope here is that they tell you of help out there. Maybe some help paid by the government or at a low cost if money is an issue.

Your mind might be all over the place when you call, so write down your questions before making phone calls.

If you're unable to contact an organization yourself, do you know someone (like a friend or relative) who could call these places for you?

Another option is go see your family doctor, as they would be able to give you advice and connect you with the proper help.

Be aware that if you tell a doctor that you've been abused, they may have an obligation to call the police.

If he abuses you, call the police. Also check your body for any bruises or marks and if you find any, take photos. The police would probably take photos as well. If he abuses you, write personal notes, noting time and date along with details of the incident. Personal notes may or may not be considered evidence in court, but they can act as supporting documentation.

Another thing:
I don't know what your financial situation is like, but if you think you will need subsidized housing after leaving your husband, apply for government housing. Get your name on the waiting list. If you aren't eligible now (due to income), ask someone at an organization for abused women that if you were to leave your husband, how would you apply. These organizations sometimes have an urgent waiting list for housing that would bump your name up higher than other people on the waiting list (but abused women who applied before you would be higher on the list).

Even if you don't end up needing it, you can decline if you're offered a home, but if you do need it, it'll be there. Btw, as I mentioned earlier I'm in Canada. Government housing that I have seen in areas here is not scary and sometimes built in communities with expensive homes. However, I do not know what it's like where you live.

All that said, I think you've got to decide if you're staying or leaving. My advice is to leave him, but obviously it's your decision to make.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> i am not sure you are getting good advice here. Some women enjoy getting choked during sex. Some women enjoy anal sex. a sex swing is a VERY MILD thing to ask for, and you laughed at him for it.
> i do agree that a sex dungeon in the basement is going pretty far though.
> 
> So, he is obviously watching porn, or reading about BDSM, and wants to experiment. is there NOTHING you could offer him to try? No single kinky sex act you might enjoy with him? Not one?
> ...


I have always been willing to experiment with him..the sex swing idea didn't bother me once I knew what it was. I don't like BDSM or porn at all, ...but I do understand other people enjoy it. In my opinion I have compromised and been more than willing to meet him in the middle. There are just a few things off the table..that we have done and i just dont like. I would prefer to feel pleasure and not lie there with tears or having an anxiety attack when I am intimate with my H. I will not traumatize myself further to satisfy anyone's sexual needs...I love and value myself more than that.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> I have always been willing to experiment with him..the sex swing idea didn't bother me once I knew what it was. I don't like BDSM or porn at all, ...but I do understand other people enjoy it. In my opinion I have compromised and been more than willing to meet him in the middle. There are just a few things off the table..that we have done and i just dont like. I would prefer to feel pleasure and not lie there with tears or having an anxiety attack when I am intimate with my H. I will not traumatize myself further to satisfy anyone's sexual needs...I love and value myself more than that.


i wonder if it is also that YOU are a dominant, and he wants you to act as a submissive.

there IS a thing called a SWITCH. where you and your husband switch roles from time to time. It gives you time to act like a dominant, and him the submissive, and see if that turns you both on.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> i am not sure you are getting good advice here. Some women enjoy getting choked during sex. Some women enjoy anal sex. a sex swing is a VERY MILD thing to ask for, and you laughed at him for it.
> i do agree that a sex dungeon in the basement is going pretty far though.
> 
> So, he is obviously watching porn, or reading about BDSM, and wants to experiment. is there NOTHING you could offer him to try? No single kinky sex act you might enjoy with him? Not one?
> ...


Ugh do you read all these threads you are so on board with the woman doing things for the husband or do you just blurt out what you'd want as the husband.

Let's recap. She has done these things before. So she has tried in the past. They cause her TRAUMA from previous SEXUAL ASSAULTS. He tries to do these things now even though he knows she doesn't want them and they cause her trauma. He now tried to do them in her SLEEP without her CONSENT.

You are so worried about her husband's unmet "needs" you try to threaten her with a quick divorce or cheating husband when she has said that she has freely offered her abusive husband to go get it somewhere else. He is abusive and self centered and trying to choke her, tie her up or anally RAPE her in her sleep and you think a SAFE word is going to work?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Anastasia6 said:


> Ugh do you read all these threads you are so on board with the woman doing things for the husband or do you just blurt out what you'd want as the husband.
> 
> Let's recap. She has done these things before. So she has tried in the past. They cause her TRAUMA from previous SEXUAL ASSAULTS. He tries to do these things now even though he knows she doesn't want them and they cause her trauma. He now tried to do them in her SLEEP without her CONSENT.
> 
> You are so worried about her husband's unmet "needs" you try to threaten her with a quick divorce or cheating husband when she has said that she has freely offered her abusive husband to go get it somewhere else. He is abusive and self centered and trying to choke her, tie her up or anally RAPE her in her sleep and you think a SAFE word is going to work?


uh, YOU and others are the ones calling it abuse and telling her to divorce.

sometimes i feel i am the ONLY one on here trying to save some of these marriages.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> uh, YOU and others are the ones calling it abuse and telling her to divorce.
> 
> sometimes i feel i am the ONLY one on here trying to save some of these marriages.


Trying to have sex with someone in a way they don't want while sleeping is rape. That is abuse. But have you even looked at any of her threads? Her husband is abusive and he threatens to lie to the police if she tried to divorce him. He apparently did with the last divorce and got away with it. That's one of the reasons she hasn't left. It isn't because THIS one is worth saving.

ETA: Also if you read this thread. You won't see me recommend divorce because the OP has said she doesn't want to. I do try to help the OP even when I don't agree with their decisions. I understand her fear of divorcing this self-centered abusive asshole.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Even if she gave in and let her husband hurt her, it’s not like he would stop with just a few things. The trend here is this man believes his wife’s body belongs to him. There is nothing he wouldn’t do to hurt and humiliate her and he doesn’t care about her well being, much less her pleasure. It’s disgusting how many people are essentially supporting this woman being brutalized on a regular basis and saying it’s her duty to tolerate it. She cries and begs him to stop hurting her and SHE is the one who is the problem? How vile.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Talker67 said:


> uh, YOU and others are the ones calling it abuse and telling her to divorce.
> 
> sometimes i feel i am the ONLY one on here trying to save some of these marriages.


What the hell is wrong with you?

Rape isn't okay, full stop. In fact it's a criminal offence. And here you are recommending @The Narcissist's Wife to buy a sex swing and offer her rapist what he wants.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

G


The Narcissist's Wife said:


> I have always been willing to experiment with him..the sex swing idea didn't bother me once I knew what it was. I don't like BDSM or porn at all, ...but I do understand other people enjoy it. In my opinion I have compromised and been more than willing to meet him in the middle. There are just a few things off the table..that we have done and i just dont like. I would prefer to feel pleasure and not lie there with tears or having an anxiety attack when I am intimate with my H. I will not traumatize myself further to satisfy anyone's sexual needs...I love and value myself more than that.


Good for you. The thought of being choked for example is appalling and people have actually died doing that. 
Personally I wouldn't ever tell a partner to seek sex elsewhere, if it's got to that point then it's over as far as I am concerned.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Even if she gave in and let her husband hurt her, it’s not like he would stop with just a few things. The trend here is this man believes his wife’s body belongs to him. There is nothing he wouldn’t do to hurt and humiliate her and he doesn’t care about her well being, much less her pleasure. It’s disgusting how many people are essentially supporting this woman being brutalized on a regular basis and saying it’s her duty to tolerate it. She cries and begs him to stop hurting her and SHE is the one who is the problem? How vile.


Agreed. Just sickening.😟


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> uh, YOU and others are the ones calling it abuse and telling her to divorce.
> 
> sometimes i feel i am the ONLY one on here trying to save some of these marriages.


An abusive marriage isn't worth saving. A husband who completely ignores and disrespects his wife in this way is disgusting.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Sounds like he’s doing way too much porn viewing. Porn skewers the mind to think that some off these denigrating acts are desired by most women, when it is just not the case. It doesn’t help when even mainstream TV shows and women’s magazines try to normalize wanting to be choked or tied up. 

I’m assuming you’re still having a normal sex life and are willing to occasionally have racy sex but don’t want the BDSM stuff, am right? Or has their been too much trauma for you to want to continue? I ask because of you telling your husband he can go elsewhere to get his kink, makes me think you don’t really love him. Just as I wouldn’t want any guy to touch my wife, I believe most women wouldn’t want their husband getting with another woman. So I have to ask, are you staying only because of the kids, or is there still some love holding you in place?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> An abusive marriage isn't worth saving. A husband who completely ignores and disrespects his wife in this way is disgusting.


She can't leave because he threatened to take her children away if she tried, and she knows he can do it because he's done it before. She's offered to let him go outside the marriage. Meanwhile, the thread is full of people telling her she needs to submit to him and give him whatever he wants, no matter how much it hurts her (physically, mentally, whatever, her feelings and safety don't matter). She is basically being advised to submit to sexual torture from a man who clearly thinks of her as property to "save the marriage." It's not a marriage, it's a hostage situation.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> She can't leave because he threatened to take her children away if she tried, and she knows he can do it because he's done it before. She's offered to let him go outside the marriage. Meanwhile, the thread is full of people telling her she needs to submit to him and give him whatever he wants, no matter how much it hurts her (physically, mentally, whatever, her feelings and safety don't matter). She is basically being advised to submit to sexual torture from a man who clearly thinks of her as property to "save the marriage." It's not a marriage, it's a hostage situation.


Let's be clear, there is *one* person telling her to try giving into the kinks he wants, lol. 

None of what he is asking for is all that crazy, but it doesn't matter if she doesn't want to do them, that's it, end of story. I also would bet that giving into what he wants is likely to lead requests for more and more extreme sexual kinks.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Let's be clear, there is *one* person telling her to try giving into the kinks he wants, lol.


OK, I reread the thread and that's true. I stand corrected.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

Talker67 said:


> uh, YOU and others are the ones calling it abuse and telling her to divorce.
> 
> sometimes i feel i am the ONLY one on here trying to save some of these marriages.


I am going to be honest here. Some of your posts I have seen with how you talk about women gives me chills. In a separate thread a guy found out his wife had an affair for three months and your response was.... "If you want to punish her, have sex in the most kinky ways possible, and THEN divorce her". That was just one of your creepy answers in that thread 

And yes I do consider manipulation, unwanted sexual advances, and threats of taking away the children as abuse. And while some marriage issues can be fixed, I am on her side to get out ASAP. I can only imagine what it must feel like going to bed and not knowing if he is going to attempt something during the night. Or being constantly checked on and monitored anywhere you go


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

There's not a court in the world who would let him take the children away from you after they knew he likes to choke you! You have been too silent.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Let's be clear, there is *one* person telling her to try giving into the kinks he wants, lol.
> 
> None of what he is asking for is all that crazy, but it doesn't matter if she doesn't want to do them, that's it, end of story. I also would bet that giving into what he wants is likely to lead requests for more and more extreme sexual kinks.


Being strangled seems pretty crazy to me! It must be so frightening. If a guy tried that with me he would be gone no questions asked.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Being strangled seems pretty crazy to me! It must be so frightening. If a guy tried that with me he would be gone no questions asked.


Especially if you've read her other threads about how he anally rapes her in her sleep. This is NOT about sex for him. This is about hurting and humiliating her. And she is trapped. It is heartbreaking.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Being strangled seems pretty crazy to me! It must be so frightening. If a guy tried that with me he would be gone no questions asked.


There are some women that are truly into that kind of thing. Similar to autoerotic asphyxiation. Not my thing, but I guess some are into it. OP is not, so it is off the table. 

And I agree with @TexasMom1216 that this is about power and control for him with zero concern for his wife.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If he tries to force anything on you now, you call the police and get a record started on him. He's risking the life of the children's mother.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> There are some women that are truly into that kind of thing. Similar to autoerotic asphyxiation.


BDSM is a real thing and gets a bad rap from guys like this who are just abusers. BDSM is mutual and in reality the submissive has the power; one word and they can stop anything, any time, for any reason. The only "safe word" this man will care about is "You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law." He doesn't want to go outside the marriage because any other woman would prosecute him for what he wants to do. There is no love in any of this, this man wants to hurt and humiliate women, specifically his wife.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> There's not a court in the world who would let him take the children away from you after they knew he likes to choke you! You have been too silent.


Agree 100%


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> There are some women that are truly into that kind of thing. Similar to autoerotic asphyxiation. Not my thing, but I guess some are into it. OP is not, so it is off the table.
> 
> And I agree with @TexasMom1216 that this is about power and control for him with zero concern for him as wife.


There are a lot of screwed up people around! It's the sort of thing a sadistic rapist would do.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> The post you quoted is the original poster's answer. So it would seem she gave it serious thought as she gave him this option and posted about it.


Well, that was the first comment made about that topic. It wasn't clear whether it was just a throwaway comment made out of frustration or if it was something that was thought out. 

Anyway, I suppose the real question is, why is the husband not taking up @The Narcissist's Wife 's suggestion and leaving her alone. That certainly would be a win-win for the both of them.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

Asterix said:


> Well, that was the first comment made about that topic. It wasn't clear whether it was just a throwaway comment made out of frustration or if it was something that was thought out.
> 
> Anyway, I suppose the real question is, why is the husband not taking up @The Narcissist's Wife 's suggestion and leaving her alone. That certainly would be a win-win for the both of them.


He would never openly accept such a thing. In his mind that would mean both of us would have the option and my H would literally kill someone if they ever touched me...especially initmately. He is very possessive. I could tell him I would never but that doesn't matter..nor would he ever admit that he is okay with either of us going outside of our marriage. He has strong values about marriage regardless of his past.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> He would never openly accept such a thing. In his mind that would mean both of us would have the option and my H would literally kill someone if they ever touched me...especially initmately. He is very possessive. I could tell him I would never but that doesn't matter..nor would he ever admit that he is okay with either of us going outside of our marriage. He has strong values about marriage regardless of his past.


Strong values about marriage but weak ones in how to treat his wife with love and respect.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> He would never openly accept such a thing. In his mind that would mean both of us would have the option and my H would literally kill someone if they ever touched me...especially initmately. He is very possessive. I could tell him I would never but that doesn't matter..nor would he ever admit that he is okay with either of us going outside of our marriage. He has strong values about marriage regardless of his past.


Seems like this thread may have run its course.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Sfort said:


> Seems like this thread may have run its course.


So like this is kind of out of place if you ask me. The OP posted 29 minutes ago. Your statement is like a defacto closing of the thread but it isnt' your thread nor has the OP stopped responding.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> So like this is kind of out of place if you ask me. The OP posted 29 minutes ago. Your statement is like a defacto closing of the thread but it isnt' your thread nor has the OP stopped responding.


I don't have the authority to close a thread. It was a reflection on the quoted post, but you're welcome to your interpretation. OP liked the comment. It's not your thread, either.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Talker67 said:


> i wonder if it is also that YOU are a dominant, and he wants you to act as a submissive.
> 
> there IS a thing called a SWITCH. where you and your husband switch roles from time to time. It gives you time to act like a dominant, and him the submissive, and see if that turns you both on.


This is not such play, there are no safe words or two fks given about what SHE wants.

It's marital rape.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> I have always been willing to experiment with him..the sex swing idea didn't bother me once I knew what it was. *I don't like BDSM or porn at all*, ...but I do understand other people enjoy it. In my opinion I have compromised and been more than willing to meet him in the middle. There are just a few things off the table..that we have done and i just dont like. I would prefer to feel pleasure and not lie there with tears or having an anxiety attack when I am intimate with my H. I will not traumatize myself further to satisfy anyone's sexual needs...I love and value myself more than that.


Just a point of information. As a BDSM educator, the label/term BDSM has become a catchall of any kink, which could include pet play, age play, ABDL, furry (sex and non sex-related) and many others. The sex swing has ended up popping up when people search for BDSM equipment. Given your statement that the swing was alright once you knew what it was, I caution you to not reject something out of hand because it gets associated with BDSM. Obviously with the choking and other things that you have experienced or those you know what they are, I am not saying reverse course and do them. Just don't reject something new simply because it falls under BDSM. However, I would not bother anything new, whether it interests you or not, if it is with your husband since he has shown that he cannot respect limits.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> i wonder if it is also that YOU are a dominant, and he wants you to act as a submissive.
> 
> there IS a thing called a SWITCH. where you and your husband switch roles from time to time. It gives you time to act like a dominant, and him the submissive, and see if that turns you both on.


Even so, he is not respecting limits and is attempting to act without consent. At this point, her role within BDSM, if there is one, is moot, assuming we have an accurate representation of the situation.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> uh, YOU and others are the ones calling it abuse and telling her to divorce.
> 
> sometimes i feel i am the ONLY one on here trying to save some of these marriages.


This does not sound like a marriage that needs to be saved. This is classic abuse. More often than not these marriages need to be ended.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> There's not a court in the world who would let him take the children away from you after they knew he likes to choke you! You have been too silent.


It depends on whether he can convince the court that she is making things up, and she said his teenage son would most likely back him up and say she is lying.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

jsmart said:


> Sounds like he’s doing way too much porn viewing. Porn skewers the mind to think that some off these denigrating acts are desired by most women, when it is just not the case. It doesn’t help when even mainstream TV shows and women’s magazines try to normalize wanting to be choked or tied up.
> 
> I’m assuming you’re still having a normal sex life and are willing to occasionally have racy sex but don’t want the BDSM stuff, am right? Or has their been too much trauma for you to want to continue? I ask because of you telling your husband he can go elsewhere to get his kink, makes me think you don’t really love him. Just as I wouldn’t want any guy to touch my wife, I believe most women wouldn’t want their husband getting with another woman. So I have to ask, are you staying only because of the kids, or is there still some love holding you in place?


We do have a normal sex life with as you said some racy sex. Normally I am willing to be a little more racy but since he continues to push for more I have stopped altogether. I am willing to do new things but everytime I try it always goes back to the choking and stuff...so now I won't even try. I just try to make it fast and pleasurable as possible and get it over with before he tries something he knows I don't want. I stay because of my kids..I cant deny that there is still some things I love about him..but my resentment and anger and disgust outweigh the love by far. If I could leave tomorrow I would..but my kids mean everything to me..my entire life revolves around them and I couldnt bear to lose them.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

maquiscat said:


> It depends on whether he can convince the court that she is making things up, and she said his teenage son would most likely back him up and say she is lying.


How would his son back him up about anything happening in the bedroom?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

maquiscat said:


> It depends on whether he can convince the court that she is making things up, and she said his teenage son would most likely back him up and say she is lying.


She needs to call the police if he tries it again while she's still got marks on her neck or at least take photos.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> How would his son back him up about anything happening in the bedroom?


Also, I think a judge will believe the police over his son. That is if OP reported the abuse to the police.

If OP is serious about leaving him while keeping her kids, she needs to speak up, get it documented.

-Call the police when abuse happens. OP could even call right now to simply ask for advice stating what's happened in the past and what she should do going forward.

-Talk to a doctor or therapist. I assume a doctor's testimony, or a doctor's letter, outlining what she's been through at the hands of the husband would help in court.

-Call an organization for abused women and speak to a counsellor there -- again, they would back her up in court, even if through a letter written by them,

-Even maybe talk to a teacher or principal at the children's school -- Talk to anyone who can help!

The point of this is to have a group of trusted and respected people from the community on OP's side--the truth's side. Then let's see how much weight the husband's son's false testimony would have.

OP, I didn't know what to do when I was being abused. These abusive bastards instill all kinds of fear into the woman, including the fear that they will take the children away. I was clueless when I was being abused by my then husband, so I try to help you so you are not clueless like I was.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

so_sweet said:


> Also, I think a judge will believe the police over his son. That is if OP reported the abuse to the police.
> 
> If OP is serious about leaving him while keeping her kids, she needs to speak up, get it documented.
> 
> ...


Yes. And they don't take children away unless there is a big big reason such as addiction or violence and even then they are given a pathway back to their children. So this is mostly a bluff the husband is running on her just more abuse.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

so_sweet said:


> Also, I think a judge will believe the police over his son. That is if OP reported the abuse to the police.
> 
> If OP is serious about leaving him while keeping her kids, she needs to speak up, get it documented.
> 
> ...


Strength in numbers..... A narcissist uses isolation to maintain control. When you have strength in numbers, the narcissists advantage is gone.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She needs to call the police if he tries it again while she's still got marks on her neck or at least take photos.


Plus keep a record of when these things occur. I can't imagine how horrible it must be to have to share a bed with a man who may well try and strangle you or commit some other unwanted act when you are asleep.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Plus keep a record of when these things occur. I can't imagine how horrible it must be to have to share a bed with a man who may well try and strangle you or commit some other unwanted act when you are asleep.


She's waking up to that in the middle of the night. She's probably too afraid of him to do anything while she's living with him. She may be stuck financially. But she needs to get out.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> How would his son back him up about anything happening in the bedroom?


Fear. Don’t underestimate the power of fear.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Sounds like the dad may have indoctrinated the son against her, or maybe he has some reasons, but really, not much she could have done in the past equals being choked by your husband!


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Sounds like the dad may have indoctrinated the son against her, or maybe he has some reasons, but really, not much she could have done in the past equals being choked by your husband!


My father did that with my brother. Beat someone enough and they’ll say whatever you want them too.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> My father did that with my brother. Beat someone enough and they’ll say whatever you want them too.


There's that and there's the other thing, which is you either model after your abuser or rebel against them. If you model, you continue the cycle of abuse.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> There's that and there's the other thing, which is you either model after your abuser or rebel against them. If you model, you continue the cycle of abuse.


Truth. Yet another reason to get the kids away from him. But I have personal experience that validates her claim that a wealthy, powerful man can do as he pleases and get away with it. I have seen it happen. My heart breaks and my blood boils for the OP. Some people are just horrible, and she’s trapped in a marriage to one.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Th


TexasMom1216 said:


> Truth. Yet another reason to get the kids away from him. But I have personal experience that validates her claim that a wealthy, powerful man can do as he pleases and get away with it. I have seen it happen. My heart breaks and my blood boils for the OP. Some people are just horrible, and she’s trapped in a marriage to one.


They can get away with a lot, but most courts don't just unconditionally give the children to one or the other parents if they both want them. Now, I see this OP has written about some past substance problems, so that's probably what they're holding on her. But if she would get in AA and stay in there while leaving and litigating, it would help because if that's the case, it would be one of the pathways back to her children under any situation. His violence trumps that stuff anyway, but if she happens to have a DUI while driving kids or anything like that, something on the record, it doesn't help.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

OP, I have four sons, two are from my abusive marriage (I'm remarried now and have two sons from my second husband). I shared the story of my ex-husband trying to take my kids away in a previous post in this thread but I edited it out because I didn't want to make the post about me.

I will share a little with you now so you know I have been through it and speak from experience and maybe it can give you at least some hope.

My abusive ex-husband tried to get custody of the children by telling lies about me. Telling lies I guess was the only way he could do it because I live, and have always lived, a pretty simple life - I've never been one to go out to night clubs, parties...etc. I'm not judging those who do, it just wasn't for me. I was the bookworm type and married off by my parents before my 20th birthday.

My ex, his sister and his mother each called children's services and made false accusations about me. I had a surprise visit from a children's services worker at my home one day. The ex (and his sister and mom) falsely reported that I was a drug addict and that I didn't buy food. I have never done drugs in my life and there was/is always lots of food in my home.

I told the worker that I would take a drug test right then and there or at any time and I also told her to go check my kitchen cupboards and fridge. She saw my cupboards and fridge full of food and I never had to take a drug test. The worker told me she had seen false reports like this before when a couple was separated/going through a divorce. The worker closed the case.

My ex did other things as well. Like calling the property manager of where I was renting an apartment and told her lies about me, hoping to get me evicted -- which would've affected the children as well as they were with me. I wasn't evicted, in fact the property manager was very kind to me. Through her words to me, she gave me hope and courage and made me feel even stronger.

One time in court, the judge yelled at my ex for trying to ruin my life and asked him if he even cared about the children's well being.

My lawyer told me the ex was never going to get custody of the children, the ex probably knew this too because if my memory serves me correctly, he never even filed for custody. I guess he wanted to get them naturally (for lack of a better word), hoping that his lies about me would have the kids taken away from me and given to him.

When a woman is in an abusive marriage, she might fear that people won't believe her, that people might believe her husband over her. The thing is, other people can usually see the truth clearly.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

so_sweet said:


> OP, I have four sons, two are from my abusive marriage (I'm remarried now and have two sons from my second husband). I shared the story of my ex-husband trying to take my kids away in a previous post in this thread but I edited it out because I didn't want to make the post about me.
> 
> I will share a little with you now so you know I have been through it and speak from experience and maybe it can give you at least some hope.
> 
> ...


Sorry you went through all that. What an ahole. Of course, family court judges are very familiar with all the tactics. It is harder to overcome if you have some type of criminal record. Which is another reason she needs to be calling police on him, taking photos, or if possible, some way recording his abuse. And keep a log of what and when. 

I don't know where the OP is, but she should try to see if there are domestic violence resources in her area because at a minimum, they can offer good advice what to do and in what order to keep you safest.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Th
> 
> They can get away with a lot, but most courts don't just unconditionally give the children to one or the other parents if they both want them. Now, I see this OP has written about some past substance problems, so that's probably what they're holding on her. But if she would get in AA and stay in there while leaving and litigating, it would help because if that's the case, it would be one of the pathways back to her children under any situation. His violence trumps that stuff anyway, but if she happens to have a DUI while driving kids or anything like that, something on the record, it doesn't help.


In the state of Texas, the courts tend to side with the mother (even when it's not in the child's best interest). But other states are different. But mostly, this man hasn't just been sexually abusing his wife. He's been emotionally abusing her as well. Isolation and destroying their victim's self esteem are as important to an abuser's joy as causing physical pain and humiliation. I completely understand how difficult it is to stand up to him. It's hard to overcome that kind of mental control. When someone constantly tells you how worthless you are, how little you matter, eventually you will believe them. I'm just so, so sorry, I wish I could fix it.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> How would his son back him up about anything happening in the bedroom?


Claim a habit of making things up, or claim he heard her tell a friend she was going to make false statements. Lie about conversations they had out of the bedroom about their problems. There is all kinds of ways.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Just a thought on the husband having gotten the children of his first marriage. That might be back far enough that the laws and views were different and more inclined toward giving the children to the father, whereas now it's more equal in custody.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Sorry you went through all that. What an ahole. Of course, family court judges are very familiar with all the tactics. It is harder to overcome if you have some type of criminal record. Which is another reason she needs to be calling police on him, taking photos, or if possible, some way recording his abuse. And keep a log of what and when.
> 
> I don't know where the OP is, but she should try to see if there are domestic violence resources in her area because at a minimum, they can offer good advice what to do and in what order to keep you safest.


I completely agree with you.

Thanks for the kind words.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

maquiscat said:


> Claim a habit of making things up, or claim he heard her tell a friend she was going to make false statements. Lie about conversations they had out of the bedroom about their problems. There is all kinds of ways.


It would take a pretty naive judge to just take his word for it, though. And it does go on, but if the kid is underage, he'll likely not be allowed in the hearings.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> When H and I met..17 years ago, I was a mere 21 and just recovering from a 5 year long self destructive period. I had PTSD from several sexual assaults, I was still depressed from my BF suicide and death when I was 18 and recovering from substance and alcohol abuse. Anyways, when we met I was very adventurous in the bedroom and was down with trying just about anything..I was like this the first few years we dated and then things changed for me. I no longer found it exciting but found it vulgar and somewhat violent. Things we did in our early years left me feeling disgusted and violated. Fast forward 17 years and 2 kids plus (3 SS) and my H still tries to push me to do several things that I just absolutely do not want to do. I do not find them pleasurable at all... I have told him this repeatedly and he always says well it never bothered u before why is it now? I give him the honest answer and he just goes off the wall and says its because i am cheating or something stupid. He also claims it isn't right for me to make him feel disgusting or shameful for wanting to do certain things with his wife. Even tho I have clearly and honestly explained why I do not want to do these handful of things, he continues to try it while we are in the bedroom. If he doesn't get his way he will even try it while I am asleep. I am getting really pissed off about this. I still have PTSD from past sexual abuse, I still have triggers that can put me into a funk and he doesn't seem to care one bit that when he tries those things they are a trigger and I am reliving a nightmare in my head. Do any other women have issues even remotely similar with their husbands? How else can I get him to understand that this is not a game, I am not a prude but that these acts seriously affect me..even if they didn't when i was in my early 20s. I don't know why it changed..it just did.


I'm having a difficult time comprehending why you are even still engaged at this level of concern with everything else you have posted.

The second anyone, including my mate, endangered or otherwise promoted an atmosphere to cause harm to my children without repentance, remorse or correction, they would be history.

Sex? You have to be kidding me. 😡


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It would take a pretty naive judge to just take his word for it, though. And it does go on, but if the kid is underage, he'll likely not be allowed in the hearings.


Or a big fat check would need to clear.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Or a big fat check would need to clear.


Let's hope not.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It would take a pretty naive judge to just take his word for it, though. And it does go on, but if the kid is underage, he'll likely not be allowed in the hearings.


She already noted he was late teens. 19 I think


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

maquiscat said:


> She already noted he was late teens. 19 I think


Thanks. The judge would have to see what the purpose of him participating would be and decide if it was relevant.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Th
> 
> They can get away with a lot, but most courts don't just unconditionally give the children to one or the other parents if they both want them. Now, I see this OP has written about some past substance problems, so that's probably what they're holding on her. But if she would get in AA and stay in there while leaving and litigating, it would help because if that's the case, it would be one of the pathways back to her children under any situation. His violence trumps that stuff anyway, but if she happens to have a DUI while driving kids or anything like that, something on the record, it doesn't help.


OP, is this something your husband is holding against you? If you have a substance abuse problem, do what you have to do to fix it. We're all only human and make mistakes. What we do to fix those mistakes really counts.

Also, you could ask the lawyer for advice about this (I think you said you have an appointment with a lawyer?)


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

so_sweet said:


> OP, is this something your husband is holding against you? If you have a substance abuse problem, do what you have to do to fix it. We're all only human and make mistakes. What we do to fix those mistakes really counts.
> 
> Also, you could ask the lawyer for advice about this (I think you said you have an appointment with a lawyer?)


My substance abuse happened between the ages 16 and 20..it was a short period in my life..but during that time and shortly after I did struggle with severe depression. Those things he does plan to use as leverage. I have not such any drug or even a prescribed narcotic for over 17 years.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It would take a pretty naive judge to just take his word for it, though. And it does go on, but if the kid is underage, he'll likely not be allowed in the hearings.


I thought so too..but I watched him get full custody from his XW, who never had any history of anything..and who also stayed at home and raised their children for years. The judge took statements from the 3 minor children and believed everything my H said about his XW without any proof whatsoever.


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## The Narcissist's Wife (10 mo ago)

maquiscat said:


> Claim a habit of making things up, or claim he heard her tell a friend she was going to make false statements. Lie about conversations they had out of the bedroom about their problems. There is all kinds of ways.


With the bedroom stuff..it would simply be his word vs mine..and its hard for anyone to picture how this man could be so convincing..but I have seen it over and over for almost 2 decades. His son would testify that I am a bad mother..would probably make abuse accusations and god knows what else. He could also say that I am the violent one, not his dad..etc. I know he would.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> I thought so too..but I watched him get full custody from his XW, who never had any history of anything..and who also stayed at home and raised their children for years. The judge took statements from the 3 minor children and believed everything my H said about his XW without any proof whatsoever.


Well let's hope that judge is retired now! But that's why you need an attorney. And maybe you could use his ex-wife for a witness.

Meanwhile all that should be public record and whatever county it happened. Go to the records clerk and get a copy of the hearings or Court transcripts and read them and see what that was all about.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

The Narcissist's Wife said:


> My substance abuse happened between the ages 16 and 20..it was a short period in my life..but during that time and shortly after I did struggle with severe depression. Those things he does plan to use as leverage. I have not such any drug or even a prescribed narcotic for over 17 years.


I'm glad to hear that it's in the past and no longer a problem. I would think that the fact it happened so long ago and hasn't been an issue for 17 years would work in your favor if he tried to use it as leverage? Maybe I'm not understanding correctly.

I wish I could make it all better for you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

or 


The Narcissist's Wife said:


> My substance abuse happened between the ages 16 and 20..it was a short period in my life..but during that time and shortly after I did struggle with severe depression. Those things he does plan to use as leverage. I have not such any drug or even a prescribed narcotic for over 17 years.


At the very least see a lawyer. Stop living in fear and act.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Diana7 said:


> At the very least see a lawyer. Stop living in fear and act.


This.


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## Ladyrare (Aug 30, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> At the very least see a lawyer. Stop living in fear and act.


Exactly! Know when to say NO!


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