# Wife Pursuing Terminally Ill Man



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

Wife of five years/partner of ten years filed for divorce a few months ago, and in the last six weeks she has reconnected with a long-ago ex boyfriend (she left him when she met me over a decade ago) who has a terminal illness. He insists on having only a casual relationship that involves friendship and occasional intimacy—his condition makes consistent physical sex impossible. They have had sex a few times, she volunteered to me, but due to his constant ailing and due to all the equipment hooked up to him like IV’s and breathing-aids, sex and other typical manners of physical intimacy are just not often feasible. 

She was missing me and even pursuing me to a degree when I left the home, but I returned to the home this month because she could not afford her monthly expenses without me, and immediately upon coming back she felt overwhelmed just by my presence and has gone back to politely stone-walling me. My coming back home is how I am privy to all this. In the last four months I have since drastically changed my habits, spending much more time with the kids and increasing my help around the house significantly, as well as recently getting a steadier source of income with a great career track. 

His rejection of her leaves her devastated; and she still vehemently tries to accompany him on hospital visits, and she militantly checks up on his required daily self-maintenance routine. She also laments his eventual passing, expressing anger and grief that he re-entered her life like this. She also assumed that because she left him in a very sad and desperate state that he would be more warm and welcoming to her for reentering his life, where she’s come to know me as moated and cold, but that he just isn’t interested in a real relationship and this severely disappoints her expectation that he would welcome her back with open arms. 

Our marriage badly needs a reset due to various incompatibilities and due to selfishness on my part, and she has expressed wishes to start from the beginning and to rebuild once I get my own place and she has a chance to see me living a healthy life that will correspond to a lasting healthy home for me, her, and our two children. I admit to her that there is a chance I abandon efforts and move on in that time because the divorce was a surprise to me and it is horribly devastating to me emotionally, but that at least for the time being I am willing to do anything to regain her trust and affections.

I am, however, having a difficult time relating to her persisting in pursuing this sort of relationship with this person. I fully recognize it is not up to me, to her I treat it like it is not my business, and that is not what I am inferring—I am just mainly looking for some context here for my own personal understanding and adjustment. When she made it clear she wanted divorce, I immediately began fearing the vibrant, actualized, financially-superior man who might take my place in my wife and children’s lives. Major complaints are that I don’t like to date enough, I don’t like to go out and have fun, I’m not welcoming enough to her friends and family, I have not lived up to my professional potential, etc. Her new interest, however, is often confined to his home or hospital room, lives on disability as he cannot work, is addicted to alcohol and video games, lives in a remote part of our area, and is quite physically frail. 

Please know that I am not trying to be vicious in describing his circumstance, rather just trying to accurately depict the situation. These circumstances leave me just very puzzled, and I am wondering if anyone has any insight or experience with this sort of thing. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for reading my post.


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

She's not cheating.

She filed divorce and ended our relationship months before getting in contact with this person. 

My allowing myself to be brought back into platonic cohabitation was certainly a mistake, and I am absolutely investing too much of my identity into our relationship to the point where being without her makes me feel like I'm wading into horrific darkness; but I'm leaving for good this Tuesday and am mostly just confused as to why she would so quickly dedicate herself to the sadness of a person nearing the end of his life with cystic fibrosis, and who is generally not interested in any real relationship with her.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm trying to understand the time line of events...

She filed for divorce some months back?
You moved back in about a week ago then found out about this guy?
Was the divorce canceled?

If you're living there as her H or partner and she's still in contact with this man then yes, she is cheating on you.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

sputniksweettart said:


> Wife of five years/partner of ten years filed for divorce a few months ago, and in the last six weeks she has reconnected with a long-ago ex boyfriend (she left him when she met me over a decade ago) who has a terminal illness. He insists on having only a casual relationship that involves friendship and occasional intimacy—his condition makes consistent physical sex impossible. They have had sex a few times, she volunteered to me, but due to his constant ailing and due to all the equipment hooked up to him like IV’s and breathing-aids, sex and other typical manners of physical intimacy are just not often feasible.
> 
> She was missing me and even pursuing me to a degree when I left the home, but I returned to the home this month because she could not afford her monthly expenses without me, and immediately upon coming back she felt overwhelmed just by my presence and has gone back to politely stone-walling me. My coming back home is how I am privy to all this. In the last four months I have since drastically changed my habits, spending much more time with the kids and increasing my help around the house significantly, as well as recently getting a steadier source of income with a great career track.
> 
> ...



I do not know what your wife it doing by hankering after this guy but I suggest from here on out you take care of yourself, look to build yourself, go to counselling, the gym, become a better man and give her the divorce she wants.
You were separated when she started this dalliance? If you are trying to make a go of it, she must cut all contact with this man, this is not a 'pick me' routine. Tell here plainly it is either you or him. If it is him, leave her and start working on yourself.

You have not specified what created the divorce attempt in the first place? What kind of husband and father were you?

Sit her down and be upfront, tell her that yes, you both contributed to the demise of the marriage but you are not going to play second fiddle to any other man, if she wants you back in her life. If she wants to keep him, she cannot have you, her choice, be firm about this. Tell her that you will move on and will gladly go through the divorce.
Then if you both want to work on it, then go to MC to work through your issues. She cannot have her cake and eat it too.


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

She announced her intention to divorce in the late spring, filed in early summer, and I moved back into the house to help with her (and my children's) finances roughly a month ago. The understanding was as a platonic cohabitation for the financial sake of her and the kids. Is it easy to say 'aw screw her'? Of course, but I wanted to help.

It was never under any promise of rekindling the relationship, and I was hesitant to come back, but she'd spiraled her finances into the ground in my absence, and I agreed to come back for a month or so to get it lined out before I 'permanently' left and got my own place. I now wish I'd explored other options, and I see that helping like I did deprived her of the ability to miss me and propel her toward considering reconciliation; but I missed her and the kids, and I just missed my home because I put a lot of love and money into my home and I missed being here. 

She has not budged since May in saying she needs the divorce. She has not made promises of fixing things, she has not agreed to halt the divorce. We have had sex a few times in that time, but not since I came back to the house.

She got in contact with this person a week before I came back, I knew she was speaking to and seeing him, and I knew it was a long shot that her and I would be patching things up anytime soon because this whole thing truly needs a reboot if it is to ever transform into reconciliation. She has just as much as work to do on herself as I do for this relationship to ever be solvent—the only difference is I'm in a place where I'm willing to begin that work, and she isn't.

It hurts horribly to know she's interested in someone else, but I have no delusions that we are sharing anything other than a platonic relationship, and in no way is it cheating. Sometimes I wish it was cheating because it would be easier to be angry with her and use that to get over her and frame her as my enemy. My coming back to the home was always going to be temporary and was strictly to dig my family out of the hole she dug with over spending and mishandling money. I know in the future I have to be more selfless than in the past for our family to ever reconsolidate, and I thought delaying my own rediscovery of the self and coming back to make a healthier transition was a start toward demonstrating that sacrifice.


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

aine said:


> You have not specified what created the divorce attempt in the first place? What kind of husband and father were you?


Trying my best to be unbiased, I think it starts with how she is a grudge-holder and I am an argument-winner.

We've both been individually to both counseling and therapy, and the things in her childhood have given her a strong evasiveness to conflict, while my childhood necessitated an aggressive reaction to anything the subconscious deems a threat.

Perceived slights early on into the relationship stayed with her, I would become frustrated that there could never be a real resolution to issues, and I would end up getting angry and saying overly mean things and remind her of past abuse as a child. 

We stayed together so long because we've always had 'that thing', but I haven't lived up to my professional potential and so over the years I've become isolated and irritable. I'm still in a great field, but I could have been much more than I am if not for being impulsive and procrastinating.

Looking back, I realize I've kept her in a kind of purgatory when it comes to advancing our lives. We're both still in our early thirties, but I realize I've been psychologically keeping things needlessly in stasis. I have lived and worked and operated with the future in mind rather than the present. When we had our children, I was always around and often engaged, but part of me didn't feel worthy of them or their beauty because I considered myself a failure professionally compared to my original path and promise, and before I knew it they are school age and I've missed so much of their young lives just to stare out the window. We've had countless splendid moments together, all of us, but there are also so many instances where I am there but not there.

My wife has reacted to this, and to the past grudges of past arguments and past disappointments, by reserving all her best feelings and efforts for the kids. I remain appreciative that at least they've seen the love and beauty inside her, but I still miss her terribly and wish I could have "her" back. We maintained a strong sexual relationship until she filed divorce, having sex almost always once per day, but I'd sense she was often distant when we were together, and while the physical realities still satiated her needs she often seemed very far away. I would over the years begin to engage her on this issue, and she would take it as an insult to her abilities in the bedroom, and it would end with her shutting me out and then me lashing out verbally at her in retribution, so the gap just widened.

She now maintains that she wants to grow old with me, and she can never close the door on reconciliation, but that she needs to see me living a healthy life on my own merits while she finds a way to heal herself. Do I get paranoid that she's just trying to let me down easy? Of course. But I know when I'm not around she wears my clothes. She sleeps in my spot in the bed. She writes letters to me. Basically she misses me.

It's a very complicated matter, and last year she had a nervous breakdown due to her job and due to a significant cancer scare, and this all feels like a continuation of all that. I feel so responsible for her, and the thought of someone else seems so alien and unwelcome at this point. I took her love and patience for granted, and at least for now she can't be with me. Her anger is starting to cool, because she's been emboldened in the last few months because I would normally never tolerate someone speaking to me harshly or condescendingly, so I've had many-an-earfuls now that she's playing with house money. But I have gone about apologizing for my verbally abusive behavior, owning it, and demonstrating I'm enacting a plan to delete it from my own capabilities. I've been much more integral to the kids' everyday lives. I've shown I can be a domestic partner. I know I'm leaving in a few days, and I know it's not an easy road, but I wanted to show her that if we can both heal then I can be a better life partner in the future. 

That she's so suddenly invested in this person, though, who is so vulnerable from at least an outside perspective, is strange and cutting to me. She's randomly commented that he's not frightening to her at all (I'm former military and much taller and more strongly built than she is), but that seems too simplistic to altogether explain her attraction.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I commend you. It's good that you recognize your own issues, failings, and contribution toward the breakdown of the marriage. It's also not easy to admit, but is necessary for improvement. Work on those things so you don't repeat them in your next relationship.

You need to stop rescuing her. I realize you think it's more about saving your children, but she is divorcing you. She fired you from the job of husband, yet you're still fulfilling the role while she's checked out and reminding you that really, you're divorcing. 

Did you consider that you're doing more harm than good, rescuing her? Why can't her ex bf rescue her? Where's he when she mismanages her finances? Oh right, he's just the comfort guy, you're still the provider. Come on.

You might have been a less than stellar husband, but she made her choice. Respect her wishes, get out of there, focus on keeping YOUR life together, and be a great dad to your kids.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

White knights get killed. The king gets the girl. Why you would want to support for such a foolish women who treated you so bad is really something you should look into. It's not healthy and you are going to have a very painful life if you continue acting this way.


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

Satya said:


> Did you consider that you're doing more harm than good, rescuing her? Why can't her ex bf rescue her? Where's he when she mismanages her finances? Oh right, he's just the comfort guy, you're still the provider. Come on.


You're absolutely right.

And we still have overly emotional conversations sometimes, especially now since we both know I'm gone for good here in less than 5 days, and the double standard of what she says is something with which I've struggled, and it helps open my eyes to the realities of 'right now'.

She wants me to "be healthy" before she can trust me again to start rebuilding, and yet she's pursuing a reclusive video game-addicted alcoholic who's sadly dying of cystic fibrosis...? That's someone who's living healthy? I understand I'm not there and not privy to the conversations they have, but overall it's like something from the Twilight Zone. It honestly concerns me for her mental hygiene, and I'm not trying to sound antagonistic when I say that. 

There is immense complexity to the relationship where the changes she always wanted from me I can admit would have made my life better and certainly my family's lives better, but all that complexity has to get bottled up for now. I have to go and find a happy pace to life that doesn't involve her. If she comes to a point where she's willing to work to rebuild things, then that's something we can discuss.


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

sokillme said:


> White knights get killed. The king gets the girl. Why you would want to support for such a foolish women who treated you so bad is really something you should look into. It's not healthy and you are going to have a very painful life if you continue acting this way.


I agree.

I think when I break down why I've been so internally resistant to the split it comes down to first of all, just familiarity with her; second, it's me feeling extremely responsible for her and taking care of her in ways; and third, I feel like I've invested so much time into the relationship it feels like such a tragic waste to give up now. 

It was shortsighted to come back when I did. I just missed home and I gave in when she told me she was in trouble. It was always meant to be temporary, but even temporary was a mistake. I'm already trying to check my growing cynicism because I am not accustomed to embodying passivity, and I can see how extended periods of some of this stuff could make someone very bitter with the world. I don't want to let this divorce harm my ability to engage with new people I meet.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Satya said:


> I commend you. It's good that you recognize your own issues, failings, and contribution toward the breakdown of the marriage. It's also not easy to admit, but is necessary for improvement. Work on those things so you don't repeat them in your next relationship.
> 
> You need to stop rescuing her. I realize you think it's more about saving your children, but she is divorcing you. She fired you from the job of husband, yet you're still fulfilling the role while she's checked out and reminding you that really, you're divorcing.
> 
> ...


Agree with this!

You may not have been a great H but that is no excuse for having a third party in the marriage. Proceed with divorce, work on yourself, ensure you have good lawyer and make appropriate arrangements for kids well being. Do not let your wife control the situation any longer. She is serving you a **** sandwich and as long as you are in the house, she thinks she can do what she wants. Show her the man you can be and work on yourself, move out, get to the gym, get counselling, etc become a better father. Leave the marriage for now. If she needs to work on her issues, tell her, you will work on yourself, she needs to do the same thing and once you move out there are no guarantees of reconciliation. I suspect you may like the new you and may not want her back.........hopefully.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*It's so rather obvious that somewhere along the way, that you have become the classic "Plan B" to her!

Why?*


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Sputnik,

You wrote, *She's not cheating.

She filed divorce and ended our relationship months before getting in contact with this person*

Much much more likely she was in contact with this OM months or even years before she started the divorce proceedings. OM is the reason for the divorce and not the other way around. 

The divorce is just a way to make her cheating socially acceptable and cover up her sins. 

Tamat


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

TAMAT said:


> Sputnik,
> 
> You wrote, *She's not cheating.
> 
> ...


She's run unabashed through probably a dozen different guys since filing for divorce, so I believe that's highly unlikely. 

She's also so helplessly transparent in her emotions for this person and his imminent passing that it's difficult to imagine she's been hiding it even since the beginning of the divorce, much less since before she filed. 

Another embarrassing caveat of the failed marriage is that we cooked up a swinging fantasy years ago, where I was definitely the one pushing it. Looking back she gave signs she wanted to keep the fantasy as just a fantasy between us, but I pressured her over the course of two or three years for us to begin enacting it. I was bored and selfish, and I thought it might be a spark to get us back to connecting again. She did share the fantasy, and so it encouraged me to bring it up every few weeks or months until she decided to do it. I was wrong and selfish, though, for pushing it; and this has taught me many lessons in keeping a sexual relationship healthy. I wrote in another thread about trying for shortcuts to get what you want from sex, thereby butchering a sexual relationship, and my pushing this fantasy is a blinking example of that. 

Needless to say, and do trust me that I now fully understand the gravity of the mistake as I'm living the consequences and seeing its effect on my family, but the seeing other people illuminated the various cracks in our relationship and basically put her over the edge of wanting to scrap the marriage. The first person who called for the divorce was me, but I quickly pulled back and promised it was only an empty threat, but she made it clear she wasn't pulling back this time and would proceed with the divorce. 

This is why I strongly believe there wasn't past infidelity. Because I was the one slowly pressuring for 'infidelity', I know the delineation to this and was literally in the room when us seeing other people actually began. She's since expressed that my pushing our swinger fantasy to become a reality made her feel cheapened, and that it's harmed her ability to connect with people in a healthy way. Now her seeing a dozen different guys in the recent few months since the divorce, and almost certainly having sex with them, doesn't sound like someone feeling cheap for casual sex—but she's since narrowed her focus to this one guy and his tragic circumstance and per her words and what I can tell living here, has discontinued other dates and liaisons as she's "not ready" for it currently after realizing her Tinder spree was horribly unhealthy, and she wants to refocus on our kids and find a healthy equilibrium for what to expect from a relationship. This also is going along while she pursues this new person, so she's still obviously in a whirlwind of selfishness, and she's showing signs of lacking self control or dignity—not that I'm currently a model of either. This narrowed focus on one person could obviously change at a moment's notice. She could also be lying, though she's definitely invested in the person with the illness, and I've been pretty vigilant and see no evidence of her lying about this.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

You need to tell your wife you made a huge mistake moving back

Then you need to get the **** out of there.

She wants a divorce, she doesn't get your money anymore.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

sputniksweettart said:


> I agree.
> 
> I think when I break down why I've been so internally resistant to the split it comes down to first of all, just familiarity with her; second, it's me feeling extremely responsible for her and taking care of her in ways; and third, I feel like I've invested so much time into the relationship it feels like such a tragic waste to give up now.
> 
> It was shortsighted to come back when I did. I just missed home and I gave in when she told me she was in trouble. It was always meant to be temporary, but even temporary was a mistake. I'm already trying to check my growing cynicism because I am not accustomed to embodying passivity, and I can see how extended periods of some of this stuff could make someone very bitter with the world. I don't want to let this divorce harm my ability to engage with new people I meet.


First of all you are not responsible for her anymore, she fired you. Would you go to a job and work after they fired you in hopes that you would get your job back? 

Second look up sunk cost fallacy, that is what you are doing with this relationship. 

Third, time to allow yourself to believe you can find better. Stop seeing divorce as the enemy and the source of your cynicism and start seeing your cruel wife as being that. The problem has not been and has never been divorce, it's the way your wife treated you. Divorce is your salvation. That is something I see all the time on these boards with people who are so reluctant to end things, they see divorce as a bad thing. Sometimes it is an absolutely wonderful thing. When someone is abusing and treating you horribly it is a source of freedom. Think about 100 years ago most women and even most men couldn't divorce because there was such a stigma, thank God that is not the case now.

Anyway your actions your reluctance to move on in a situation, were at least in the present your wife is really using you for emotional end even more so financial support are really hurting you. Even if your end game is to end up with her, you are providing the other guy with an out as by you supporting her and in the process you are enabling him to avoid having to prove he is willing and capable of doing so, or not. Why would you do that.


----------



## GoingCrazyNow (Jun 28, 2017)

sokillme said:


> First of all you are not responsible for her anymore, she fired you. Would you go to a job and work after they fired you in hopes that you would get your job back?
> 
> Second look up sunk cost fallacy, that is what you are doing with this relationship.
> 
> ...


The bolded is so true, I was blind to it until the sun came out and the birds started singing.


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

sokillme said:


> First of all you are not responsible for her anymore, she fired you. Would you go to a job and work after they fired you in hopes that you would get your job back?
> 
> Second look up sunk cost fallacy, that is what you are doing with this relationship.
> 
> ...


You're right and I really appreciate your advice.

Also at the root of the fear of divorce is I think a worry that the currents of life will make it impossible to find one another again even if we can get both get healthy. 

But emptying of expectations, and trying to think like a confident adult, I know something that is *so very meant to be* will find its way to work with time and effort anyway. If it doesn't then it wasn't worth it. And practically-speaking, even with the end game like you mentioned, she has become so emotionally disconnected with people and at times with reality, I sometimes stop myself and feel like such a fool for believing she will immediately build some amazingly deep relationship with someone off the bat. 

She is not a big earner, she has two kids (one with significant special needs) who have a dad who's always at and always going to be at school functions and gatherings and holidays, she is extremely set in her ways in every direction, and she has debilitating trust issues at this point. My feeling like someone is going to immediately marry her and be with her for the next sixty years is ridiculous paranoia and weakness-based, and it's yet another department in my life I need to start treating with more maturity and patience.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Don't let the fear of divorce make it ok for you to be mistreated.


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Sputnik,

If I read correctly the children are hers and not yours?

Easy solution let her go immediately.

Tamat


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

TAMAT said:


> Sputnik,
> 
> If I read correctly the children are hers and not yours?
> 
> ...


No they're both mine, twins who look just like me.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

sputniksweettart said:


> No they're both mine, twins who look just like me.


This is the part that I don't understand. 

Most of the discussion so far has been about you and your wife. Although you said that you moved back in to help financially both for her and the kids.

I hope you understand how traumatic this must by on your children. To have dad always there, to have dad leave mom and them. To have dad come back and show them love but no love for mom. This is not allowing an emotional wound to heal.

The situation is what it is. I think I see two people playing the role of the white knight. 

You trying to save your family. Your wife trying to emotionally save a terminally ill man. Perhaps this need to save others is what drew the two of you to each other.

I think that you should sit down with your wife and explain that you can't stick around ask for joint custody and if needed you find a place you can afford and she finds a place within her budget. Then the kids will have to deal with some hard changes, but they will be able to deal with things.

Good luck.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You are a plan B doormat doing the "pick me dance".

Nothing complicated here at all. A blind man could see it.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

sputniksweettart said:


> She announced her intention to divorce in the late spring, filed in early summer, and I moved back into the house to help with her (and my children's) finances roughly a month ago. The understanding was as a platonic cohabitation for the financial sake of her and the kids. Is it easy to say 'aw screw her'? Of course, but I wanted to help.
> 
> It was never under any promise of rekindling the relationship, and I was hesitant to come back, but she'd spiraled her finances into the ground in my absence, and I agreed to come back for a month or so to get it lined out before I 'permanently' left and got my own place. I now wish I'd explored other options, and I see that helping like I did deprived her of the ability to miss me and propel her toward considering reconciliation; but I missed her and the kids, and I just missed my home because I put a lot of love and money into my home and I missed being here.
> 
> ...



Move out now and take the kids with you. You are paying the bills while she sleeps with another man. Stop that. She should move in with him. She can't pay her bills? She can get a job like everyone else on the planet. She can't afford her kids? Too bad and too late. She can leave them with you. Too bad. Not your problem. She wanted a divorce, that is what it looks like.

Stop being a doormat


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Move out now and take the kids with you. You are paying the bills while she sleeps with another man. Stop that. She should move in with him. She can't pay her bills? She can get a job like everyone else on he planet. She cant afford her kids? Too bad and too late. She can leave them with you. Too bad. Not your problem. She wanted a divorce, that what it looks like.
> 
> Stop being a doormat


Yeah my new place is ready on Tuesday and she's gone for the weekend so it's almost here. It's just the kids and me here today and tomorrow, watching movies and playing. 

She can afford life if she can just be disciplined with her money and not get $1000 overdrafted a week before hey paycheck hits. 

For years now I've fantasized about being single again for at least a probationary bout of time, but I did it from a psychologically advantaged space of doing it on my own terms. This feeling of being on someone else's roller coaster is very unfamiliar for me, and I can now see that a decade of this relationship has left me emotionally atrophied like an astronaut who hasn't used his legs in too long. But reading different stuff and listening to a ton of Alan Watts and trying to imagine just getting back to my own hobbies and interests, because I've shut all that out since May when this all started, is starting to feel like cool water on burning skin.

My little brother's getting out of college soon, and we're really close, and I'll have a new work out buddy and a wingman going out and having a good time. There are worse things than meeting single girls throughout the week, having someone to play sports and go hiking with me where I've been doing it alone for years, having UFC parties every other weekend, focusing on my career, being the cool parent who shows up with presents for fun things, and just doing things on my pace. It'll be alright.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Just make sure you are financially separated because if she is wracking up dept you don't want to be on the hook. Also it's nice being the cool parent but you should be more then that. Be emotionally involved, that will pay off in the end when they are adults. 

One other thing, since as you say you had emotional atrophied (which is an awesome description of it, I am going to steal that astronaut thing) since you got to that point it might be a good idea to find out why. A lot of times when that happens there is an underlying issue with codependency for instance. Those kind of issues lead you to have poor boundaries about what you will accept in a mate, it may even cause you to be attracted to and be attractive to the wrong kind of mate. This is what they mean when they say your picker is broken. It's a good idea to maybe get an IC checkup to make sure you thinking is right or if not you correct it. 

You seem to be on the right track tough. The more you detach the easier it gets. In a lot of ways it seems like how they describe deprogramming from being in a cult.


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

sokillme said:


> You seem to be on the right track tough. The more you detach the easier it gets. In a lot of ways it seems like how they describe deprogramming from being in a cult.


I can definitely see that.

A principal contributor to the atrophied thing is, I think, that my wife and my family have a vicious dislike for one another. My family is chocked full of mental illness and aggressive people (and I count myself in that), so they can often make themselves pretty easy to write off. Long ago I realized they were never going to get along with my wife, who has never forgotten a single slight against her, and so I have so much reliance on her as a foundation in my life because I strapped in as part of 'Team-Her' near from the beginning and haven't looked back. 

In relation to this, the divorce honestly reminds me of like a zombie movie where the people have banded together and made some sort of sanctuary to defend against the zombies, and inside it's disease-free. I'm mainly thinking of 28 Weeks Later, but it's in other movies and books, as well. Inevitably one infected finds its way in, and you see this attempt at artificial paradise quickly devolve into a chaotic bloodbath where fake-heaven turns to real-hell at a breakneck, exponential rate of time.

Because I've been so fortified in this closed-circle, it feels like the infection has found its way into the sanctuary, and now there's chaos and ruin to something I convinced myself was so safe and sacred. The thing I am convinced I am slowly learning, is that I've been fashioning my social ethos like an defensive stronghold, and I have to turn the theme of my life from a damn zombie movie into something both vibrant and peaceful.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *It's so rather obvious that somewhere along the way, that you have become the classic "Plan B" to her!
> 
> Why?*


*Just realized that it well could be because she's the named beneficiary on a rather hefty life insurance policy of his!*


----------



## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

As you kick her out, tell her that Karma will ensure that she wiil get a painful terminal disease, except that she will die alone.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Sputnik


> Another embarrassing caveat of the failed marriage is that we *cooked up a swinging fantasy years ago, where I was definitely the one pushing it. *Looking back she gave signs she wanted to keep the fantasy as just a fantasy between us, but I pressured her over the course of two or three years for us to begin enacting it. I was bored and selfish, and I thought it might be a spark to get us back to connecting again. She did share the fantasy, and *so it encouraged me to bring it up every few weeks or months until she decided to do it.* I was wrong and selfish, though, for pushing it; and this has taught me many lessons in keeping a sexual relationship healthy. I wrote in another thread about trying for shortcuts to get what you want from sex, thereby *butchering a sexual relationship,* and my pushing this fantasy is a blinking example of that.


You did this.

YOU broke her down. You cheapened her, knocked her off her pedastel.

Yes, she could have said no to swinging, she tried, then gave in.

She has been going down hill since.

The OM, the sick ex bf? He is still pure in her eyes. That is why she likes him. No threat there.

Leave her alone. The damage is done...

Shame on you!


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

sputniksweettart said:


> Yeah my new place is ready on Tuesday and she's gone for the weekend so it's almost here. It's just the kids and me here today and tomorrow, watching movies and playing.
> 
> She can afford life if she can just be disciplined with her money and not get $1000 overdrafted a week before hey paycheck hits.
> 
> ...


Hell yes. This thinking. 

Not: I must get my wife back who's cheating with a cripple ex bf who is on his deathbed and showing me I have no value whatsoever to her, even if I have to wait years. Holy smokes you are selling yourself short hoping this idiot cheater comes back. 

Please learn to be thankful you have the opportunity you outlined above.

You have got a blessing. You will see it as I do in a year. Be patient. Under no circumstance allow yourself to be emotionally hoddwinked into taking this woman back. She would spit on your grave if it meant getting this rotten terminally I'll man back in good health.


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Are you serious??? Get out, get away, never look back, stop being a friend. Cut her off and cut her out of your life!!!


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> Hell yes. This thinking.
> 
> Not: I must get my wife back who's cheating with a cripple ex bf who is on his deathbed and showing me I have no value whatsoever to her, even if I have to wait years. Holy smokes you are selling yourself short hoping this idiot cheater comes back.
> 
> ...


Did you read what he wrote, he forced her into sex with others to fulfill his own sick fantasies, against her will. What wife could ever come back from that?


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

aine said:


> Did you read what he wrote, he forced her into sex with others to fulfill his own sick fantasies, against her will. What wife could ever come back from that?


This is quite the simplification of everything I wrote, as well as quite the judgmental tone.

My wife went on to have sex with over a dozen other men in the few months since filing for divorce—reinforcing that it wasn't just my "sick fantasy" but rather one we shared. It's _almost_ like people with narcissistic tendencies never take responsibility for their own actions. Our sexual plurality was both our doing, even if I was the one who introduced it. 

And if you think swinging is "sick" then I'd hate to hear your thoughts on all the other less mainstream sex practices and lifestyles. You'd probably have the BDSM community rounded up into concentration camps.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Moderator Warning!

It's quite ok to disagree with someone's life style or anything else. It's not ok to express that disagreement using profanity and attacking the OP. If you cannot find a civil way to express your thoughts/feels just stop posting on this thread.

Posters who cannot follow the rules will get time-out bans.

{Speaking as a moderator..}


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

sputniksweettart said:


> This is quite the simplification of everything I wrote, as well as quite the judgmental tone.
> 
> My wife went on to have sex with over a dozen other men in the few months since filing for divorce—reinforcing that it wasn't just my "sick fantasy" but rather one we shared. It's _almost_ like people with narcissistic tendencies never take responsibility for their own actions. Our sexual plurality was both our doing, even if I was the one who introduced it.
> 
> And if you think swinging is "sick" then I'd hate to hear your thoughts on all the other less mainstream sex practices and lifestyles. You'd probably have the BDSM community rounded up into concentration camps.


YOUR WORDS

She's run unabashed through probably a dozen different guys since filing for divorce, so I believe that's highly unlikely. 

we cooked up a swinging fantasy years 

but I pressured her over the course of two or three years for us to begin enacting it. I was bored and selfish, and I thought it might be a spark to get us back to connecting again
She did share the fantasy, and so it encouraged me to bring it up every few weeks or months until she decided to do it. I was wrong and selfish, though, for pushing it;

I now fully understand the gravity of the mistake as I'm living the consequences and seeing its effect on my family

You abused your wife, people who are abused emotionally, etc often do this type of thing, for example children of childhood abuse , trafficked adult women, suffer trauma as a result and because of their total lack and destruction of self esteem they sleep with everyone and anything because they think they are worthless, YOU did that.

Ban me, I do not care, I am the only one on here pointing this out, if we are not going to call a spade a spade what is the point of this site? The OP refers to this and then minimises it, well it should be exposed for what it is. I know people who are victims of this type of thing, the OP is NOT a victim, and we have people on here telling him get rid of her, etc etc. 
With absolutely no consideration of what she has been through, stop and think for a moment, if your SO has fantasies which you are not too keen about but pushes and pushes over years and you give in, how would you feel about your SO? They put themselves first, they want their own gratification, where does that leave you? I still stand by every word I said and OP, the fact your wife went on to have lots of sex with many other men proves my point, and does not negate it. She is a victim of your actions. Own it.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

sputniksweettart said:


> This is quite the simplification of everything I wrote, as well as quite the judgmental tone.
> 
> My wife went on to have sex with over a dozen other men in the few months since filing for divorce—reinforcing that it wasn't just my "sick fantasy" but rather one we shared. It's _almost_ like people with narcissistic tendencies never take responsibility for their own actions. Our sexual plurality was both our doing, even if I was the one who introduced it.
> 
> And if you think swinging is "sick" then I'd hate to hear your thoughts on all the other less mainstream sex practices and lifestyles. You'd probably have the BDSM community rounded up into concentration camps.



it is when you push your desires onto someone else, it is not loving in any shape or form and I am not simplifying anything, are YOU going to take any responsibility for what YOU did. 
I suspect that is why you are back in the home, because you are so so guilty. So stop pretending and be a man and call it exactly what it is. YOU did this and if your wife had any sense she would pursue the divorce and get some counselling and move on with her life. There is a huge difference between fantasy and reality but you want to rug sweep, minimise and obfuscate the scenario and paint your wife to be a cheating w****. YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

sputniksweettart said:


> This is quite the simplification of everything I wrote, as well as quite the judgmental tone.
> 
> My wife went on to have sex with over a dozen other men in the few months since filing for divorce—reinforcing that it wasn't just my "sick fantasy" but rather one we shared. It's _almost_ like people with narcissistic tendencies never take responsibility for their own actions. Our sexual plurality was both our doing, even if I was the one who introduced it.
> 
> And if you think swinging is "sick" then I'd hate to hear your thoughts on all the other less mainstream sex practices and lifestyles. You'd probably have the BDSM community rounded up into concentration camps.


I have no problem with alternative lifestyles, swapping, BDSM etc., within a loving relationship, where both partners agree and have mutual consent. 
I DO have a problem when one partner in a so called loving relationship imposes their way on the other and wears them down to the point they have to give in. That is grossly 'sick,' selfish and then minimise their behaviour. So before you start talking about concentration camps, look at your behaviour and examine exactly what it did to your wife. Better still go and see a professional and get their feedback, you only want to hear all your cheerleaders on here telling you, that your wife is a cheater and you are the poor victim. Well i see through all of that and I am calling you out on what you actually are.

I am an anonymous person on the internet, it is no skin of my nose what happens in your marriage, but I feel very very sorry for your wife.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

It never ceases to amaze me when men encourage their wives to cheat and then get upset when they cheat.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

aine said:


> Did you read what he wrote, he forced her into sex with others to fulfill his own sick fantasies, against her will. What wife could ever come back from that?


This went under the radar. I needed to point this important factoid out.

When the blitz arrived she got all the shelling. Not fair at all. 

Thanks.:|:|


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Please note, Sir.

You started the swinging fantasy. She went with it as long as it remained a fantasy.

She never cheated on you until you separated. 

Yes, she dated other men.
Yes she MAY have had sex with one, two. You are speculating that she had sex with them all. Even if she said she did, she may have said this to burn you. It may not be true [had sex with all].

Regardless, she ended that behavior and latched onto a sick, harmless man whom she felt was NOT a horndog. 

In the end, it is obvious she only wants a loyal man. The sick exbf fits the bill. He is not in love with her, though.

You abused your wife, she felt soiled, hurt, she lashed out poorly. And now she is a mess?
Why does that not surprise you?


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I don't know how I missed it, but you are exactly right. He's getting the crops he spent so much time sowing. No other way around it. He trained her to want other men.

All you have left to do OP is move on.


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

aine said:


> YOUR WORDS
> 
> She's run unabashed through probably a dozen different guys since filing for divorce, so I believe that's highly unlikely.
> 
> ...


As I've said repeatedly, I'm now living with the consequences of my actions, and I'm now far removed from that lifestyle. The steering us toward that lifestyle was subtle to the point I didn't know I was doing it, but now I can reflect and realize I was wrong. Her years of interest in it, as a hypothetical, I mistook as a green light, and there other psychological issues from which she suffers that I won't ever divulge that she first adamantly thought the fantasy remedied, and my subsequent actions did take that into account. I was just wrong. And now I get to live in, and eventually fix, the mess I made. 

I am hardline against plurality now in my own life, and I am happy to speak with anyone on the fence about it to give them my story and tell them pursuing it is very likely the product of problems in your marriage you don't yet recognize you're having. I was wrong, I now know I was wrong, and I have rejected that lifestyle in my life now for almost a year—_since even months before her filing for divorce_, because I didn't enjoy being with other girls since they're not her, and I immediately began realizing it was all a misguided attempt at reaching her. I'm not sure what else I can do other than learn from mistakes and demonstrate through consistent actions my contrition toward the person about whom I so deeply care. Your profanity-laced tirades are worthless here, and I promise they're only for you. I grew up poor with a bipolar single mom, and I went to Parris Island straight out of high school. I've been called and subjected to pretty much everything an American familiar with Appalachia can imagine; so you're not going to hurt my feelings, ma'am. 

When others have said leave and don't look back, notice I'm not agreeing with them. I'm just focused on space and getting past all this self-hate because it's not helping anything, at this point, other than making me so jarred and conflicted I can barely even think. My motivation for making this thread was garnering some context with her new friend's medical situation (notice it's in the title), as relates to my wife pursuing that and enveloping herself with that because I think there is something to learn in it that I can utilize in eventually healing my family in a patient and organic way. Do you think you're telling me or anyone else something that I don't already know? I messed up, and I'm now eating the consequences of it. You say people aren't reading my posts, but you're not reading my posts. I haven't once said I'm surprised this has happened, or that I haven't earned my present circumstances. Others say I'm taking too much blame and over-thinking it and putting her on a pedestal, while you're saying I'm telling half-truths and not taking responsibility and blaming her. You're deriving what you want so you can get yourself worked up. 

Your "if someone cared about someone then they could never..." is honestly so pompous and misinformed that I would urgently recommend you to counseling because you demonstrate a severe inability to realistically empathize with the complexities of other people, and you likely write people off so quickly because the idea of fluidity and autonomy among your inner-circle represents to you just a terrifying chaos. People who paint issues of intricacies with broad brushes are just desperate to hear their own echo, and you and I both know this manifests in other parts of one's life beyond an online message board. Marriage is a bond for better or worse, and so when one person sinks—even if temporarily—then it unfortunately drags the other person down, too. People sometimes sink and have to fight back to the surface to return to the air. It's just life. And it's often why sometimes people want out of a marriage, and so I've earned these difficult consequences. We talked about the swinging stuff for three years before doing it. She was literally thanking me while we were doing it because it seemed "so pragmatic and liberating." But that was the sugar high, and I now recognize that she wasn't ready for it, and I also recognize it was a mistake and I personally want no part of it in the future. I just want simple and grounded, and I recognize my pursuing that lifestyle was an ignorance-based attempt at taking a shortcut toward fixing the real problems between her and me. 

A forum like this could represent a desert oasis for people in what amounts to a very difficult time in their lives, because relationships are complicated and because people do mess up, but you using this platform as a way to grandstand is a lot like a tumor sucking all the cells from something useful so it can just sit there all discolored and engorged, inflicting itself unto everything else by virtue of its mere existence.


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> Please note, Sir.
> 
> You started the swinging fantasy. She went with it as long as it remained a fantasy.
> 
> ...


She volunteered she had sex with "them all", even repeatedly saying there's more that she doesn't want to tell me right now. I don't ask about it because I don't want to know. Months ago I accepted this is just a dark time, and I'm not keeping score about who did what or when anymore. It's just a dark time, and space and healthy actions are all that will lead to a better outcome—reconciling or not. How could you possibly pretend to know about our conversations? Do you think I'm lying to look better to you? I'm here looking for context, not friends or an ego boost. If someone wanted an ego boost or to blame someone for things to complete strangers, they could do a lot better than what I've written here. 

I said she didn't cheat on me. Read my posts, please, before contributing your opinion. A few pages back I was even correcting people who thought she was cheating on me. She didn't cheat on me. I even said sometimes I selfishly wish she had so I could feel like I could blame her for something and not feel so guilty for how things are right now. 

And again, I'm not surprised by any of this. I know I messed up, I misread things, and I get to continue to deal with the consequences. 

But I do appreciate your thoughts on why she's attracted to a dying man—my original motivation for making this thread. Thank you for that.


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> It never ceases to amaze me when men encourage their wives to cheat and then get upset when they cheat.


Quote me saying she cheated.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You're assigning all this complexity to things, wishing there was some complexity so there would be a problem that you could figure out.

There isn't. Your wife no longer loves you and there's nothing that you or she could do about it, even if she wanted to.

You don't want to hear this, but you need to move on. You chasing her and supporting her isn't working, is it?
There's a stronger possibility of her changing her mind and wanting you again if you moved on, rather than niced her back and showed her some strength.

What's your plan to get her back? Wait for her man to die and slip in his role?
I doubt that will work.

Moving forward and getting happy again.... that might attract someone.


----------



## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> You're assigning all this complexity to things, wishing there was some complexity so there would be a problem that you could figure out.
> 
> There isn't. Your wife no longer loves you and there's nothing that you or she could do about it, even if she wanted to.
> 
> ...


Like I said, my new place is ready on Tuesday and the child support's been paid out already in advance by me so she knows there's no more money coming from me until after Christmas. I am doing everything a person does when they are moving on. 

I'm definitely not doing anything directly relating to attracting her back. I already get outside. I already go to the gym. Other than recently volunteering to some local charities, I'm not doing anything I don't normally do other than internal stuff that makes me more peaceful and centered and not emotionally dependent on her for vindication.

And about adding complexity—a slow ten year lapse into divorce does involve a great deal of complexity. I am trying my hardest right now to learn from mistakes and failures on my part, and so when I say things are complex it's stemming from that. Point blank, yes, you're right. She's not in love with me anymore. I understand this, and I agree that this fact is just a pill to swallow. When I talk about her fixing things, it's in response to the conversations between her and me that she initiates where she goes through these hypotheticals where she would want to rebuild our marriage, and I am honest with her that while she's in the power seat right now, that I will not come back until, like me, she's ready to rebuild herself. And I wouldn't ever accept moving into someone's slot. That's just insanity and not in my character. My part in this divorce is mostly me being too aggressive and domineering and selfish. I would never be someone's stand-in. 

But I also don't personally need to subscribe to the "this is unfixable and I am gone forever" belief because according to her, that's not true, and according to me, that's not true; and I won't say never. I will live and operate like it will never happen, because whether or not we never individually get to a place where reconciliation is beneficial to both of us and to our kids, being totally self-sufficient and autonomous is always a good thing. And even if we don't ever get back together, she's still been my best friend for ten years and is the mother to my kids. And so her suddenly becoming so focused on someone with only a year or so to live was/is confusing to me, is something that at least somehow relays the effects of our failed marriage on her psyche, and is really the reason I made the thread.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

sputniksweettart said:


> As I've said repeatedly, I'm now living with the consequences of my actions, and I'm now far removed from that lifestyle. The steering us toward that lifestyle was subtle to the point I didn't know I was doing it, but now I can reflect and realize I was wrong. Her years of interest in it, as a hypothetical, I mistook as a green light, and there other psychological issues from which she suffers that I won't ever divulge that she first adamantly thought the fantasy remedied, and my subsequent actions did take that into account. I was just wrong. And now I get to live in, and eventually fix, the mess I made.
> 
> *I am hardline against plurality now in my own life, and I am happy to speak with anyone on the fence about it to give them my story and tell them pursuing it is very likely the product of problems in your marriage you don't yet recognize you're having. I was wrong, I now know I was wrong, and I have rejected that lifestyle in my life now for almost a year—since even months before her filing for divorce, because I didn't enjoy being with other girls since they're not her, and I immediately began realizing it was all a misguided attempt at reaching her. I'm not sure what else I can do other than learn from mistakes and demonstrate through consistent actions my contrition toward the person about whom I so deeply care. Your profanity-laced tirades are worthless here, and I promise they're only for you. I grew up poor with a bipolar single mom, and I went to Parris Island straight out of high school. I've been called and subjected to pretty much everything an American familiar with Appalachia can imagine; so you're not going to hurt my feelings, ma'am. *
> 
> ...


I beg to differ, my immediate post was angry because you slipped that one under the radar, that is why everyone missed it. My subsequent posts have been very measured. I believe you should go for counselling, deal with your own issues first, become a better man and let your poor broken wife go.

I see from the way you write that you still do not grasp the enormity of what you have pushed on your wife, is she doesn't do what you want, she is damned (you keep at her) when she did what you want ( you are still not happy) and she goes into the arms of a man who probably treats her with some modicum of respect. Yet you let everyone here think she is the one at fault. 
Everything is still about you the 'oh woe is me' mantra is evident in your writing and frankly makes me sick.

Example
"i'm now living with the consequences' correction: your wife and kids are also living with the consequences of your selfishness

'it was so subtle, I didn't know i was doing it' - please give me a break, this is minimising at its best!

"I have now rejected that lifestyle because I didnt enjoy sleeping with other girls" again it is all me, me , me me. Nothing about your wife, how she felt about you sleeping with other women or having to sleep with other men to keep you happy. Unbelievable! If you had enjoyed it, you wouldn't give a hoot about how your wife felt, correct? So what does that say about you? It is not my intention to bash you but to let you see from another's point of few. Where was your empathy?

"contrition towards the person I so deeply care about' - sorry if you give a rats ass about her, you wouldn't have forced her to do something she didn't want to do., you only care about yourself and your own gratification, so call it what it is, and stop saying things because noone listens to your words, it is all about actions I'm afraid.

I could go on, and contrary to what you think, I really do not want to hurt your feelings, I do not even know you. I want you to realise what you have done. I am sure your wife has tried to convey this to you, but you are obtuse, you know on an intellectual level, but it is still all about you and what has happened to you. 
If YOU are going to get well, you need to move from that position. Your marriage is dead and I think it is grossly unfair to your wife to prolong it, let her go, let her meet someone who will love, honor and cherish her not force her to sleep with other men. You have broken her and now it is time for you to work on yourself. Let her go and let her be.


----------

