# To let go?



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Need bro advice on this one:

Today my STBX and I ended our three months going dark with each other... in other words, we're cool, and should be able to communicate in more friendly and less cold terms from now on, as long as we keep the peace.

Looking back at our meeting today however, a few things just don't make sense. I was busy at work when she visited me anyway to sort things out after reading the letter I wrote to her (which involved revelations, forgiveness, compliments and a blessing if she chose not to befriend me again). I couldn't tear myself away and she had to wait an hour before we could go for a talk, I offered her alternatives but she didn't mind waiting.

Throughout the discussion I also learnt that she has been 'dating' someone since March, a month after we had our last fight on Valentines day. A part of me believes her when she told me she's not sleeping with him, and another part of me doesn't. She was rather calm through the whole meeting.

It shouldn't really matter but after three months I guess we both needed to know where we stood and I admitted that I've done the same (seeing other people) but haven't been sleeping around. Her pattern of questions and behaviour suggests that her feelings aren't dead yet, though it's possibly just familiarity and attachment rather than love no? Or was she just curious how far I've gone, and weighing up her options?

I don't understand what is going on or if I'm just trying to hold onto something that's already gone... if I'm just imagining things that there is still hope. However, judging by her calm but otherwise firm tone, I don't think she would entertain another attempt at reconciliation unless it's on her terms. Terms I'm not so sure I can trust considering she's reached the end of her patience, she forgives me or so she says, but she's not forgotten.

Been reflecting all day, and now I can't sleep. Should I just let it go? Am I holding onto something that just can't be? Besides, there's an "other man" now, even if she apparently sees him only as a friend for now. A part of me believes that she's using him to fill the void and help herself heal, another part feels she's rebounding... either way, she knows I no longer have any right to tell her not to do such things.

What you guys reckon? Hell lets say there's even a chance left I would have to somehow re-earn her trust, prove that I have learnt from my mistakes, deal with the "other man", and somehow come to an agreement to reconcile on balanced terms, all at the same time. Her posture and tone suggests that she's had enough of doing things my way, and has previously expressed shame at apparently submitting herself to my leadership only for us to end up in another fight. She's grown some backbone.

So... to let her go? Or what do I do? I was supposed to just send her the letter, then go plough someone else... now plans changed =/


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Wow, 120 views and no replies... guess this one is all up to me then?

It's that bad is it?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> ...I'm just trying to hold onto something that's already gone...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Heh oh well, guess somethings just do have to end, depressing really

Just hoping someone here can tell me what I want to believe that there's still hope, but I guess that's just impossible now that things have been set in motion

Like watching a boat sail off and wishing it turns around


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Heh oh well, guess somethings just do have to end, depressing really
> 
> Just hoping someone here can tell me what I want to believe that there's still hope, but I guess that's just impossible now that things have been set in motion
> 
> Like watching a boat sail off and wishing it turns around


And it is depressing. Damn depressing.

All that time and emotion for nothing a the end. It hurts like hell and the future always looks bleak.

But there is a future. And you can make it a better one.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Heh, it even gets more depressing the more one thinks about it... 

I'm tempted to hunt down this "other man", just for kicks. In the mood for it too... but, oh well. At least now I can walk into our old place and pick up my daughter without the tension, that's a good thing.

For some reason now more than ever a part of me wants her back, probably because I'm realising the reality of our situation, and watching her slip away. *sigh* Thanks though

EDIT: Friday night, I'm free, for once... maybe I should just fking get laid as was the original damn plan because it's becoming more and more apparent NO SEX IS DRIVING ME BONKERS


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Are you still in love with her?

Is she good for you?

Are you good for her?

If the answers are yes, yes, and yes, there's something worth fighting for.

If no to any of the above, move on.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

RD, things had been pretty bad between you and your W before you separated, and now comes the big question: Do you think that the relationship can be fixed or not? Only you and your W can answer this one, but if you think the marriage is truly irretrievably broken - perhaps it really is time for you both to move on...


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

Before you do anything, think of what would happen if she did the same. 



> Her posture and tone suggests that she's had enough of doing things my way, and has previously expressed shame at apparently submitting herself to my leadership only for us to end up in another fight. She's grown some backbone.


That might not be a bad thing. One theme that you used to keep coming back to was that you were attracted to how strong she is or at least used to be. The more she submitted, the weaker she probably appeared. I know a lot of people here go on and on about how it's a man's role to lead, but I think some relationships function better on a more equal footing.

Look, if you're considering reconciling, talk to her. It could be that she's considering R, or it could be she's set on divorce. Probably somewhere in the middle, but the fact is you don't know. Instead of making guesses, get some information. Is she open to R? How would R look like if it were to happen? 

Then go away, have a long think before you decide what you want to do.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Tbh, it might just be emotional inertia. You are going through a crisis right now. You are divorcing, you have all these emotion-leftovers for your STBX and on top of that, you've been mentioning that you haven't been getting any action from the ladies of Sydney. And the solution to your problems "seem" to be just under your reach...

The comfortable way of dealing with a crisis is trying to go back to status quo. Generally, I'm an advocate of moving on in such situations. But ultimately, you have to look within yourself for the answer. Is it your innate resistance to change talking or do you truly believe that your relationship with your STBX has a chance?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@Jaquen


jaquen said:


> Are you still in love with her?
> Is she good for you?
> Are you good for her?
> If the answers are yes, yes, and yes, there's something worth fighting for.
> If no to any of the above, move on.


I don't know what love is anymore, it's fuzzled with heaps of pain to the point my emotions come and go, I harden myself up one minute only to miss her terribly the next. Right now though... I can't seem to fight it, though she's always been in my thoughts, I couldn't even bring myself to plough someone else, and hell I've tried only to hesitate each time. Even a few fking hours ago! Hell I just end up saying to myself (and this forum), "Oh FK this, I'm just going to ram someone and get over this sh-t" only to find myself face to face with another woman and then going "erm, no". Now I know why, I don't know if I still love her, but I sure as hell still don't want to be with anyone else but my wife.

As for if she is good for me... throughout the years she's made alot of progress, especially during our seperation and her many problems got reduced to one; her nutcase sex demon. If she ever learns to manage it she would be perfect, hell, I DID enjoy sex with her, gods know that she's always been the best.

Just not when I was fking her demon and not her. Hell if that even makes any sense...

The majority of our arguments have always been due to this sex demon of hers. Am I good for her? I don't know! I don't think she thinks so anymore. I have made ALOT of mistakes with her, I wish there's a reset button so I can start over with what I know now. I've hurt her terribly, and I've been poisonous to her self-esteem in the past.

@Cosmos


> RD, things had been pretty bad between you and your W before you separated, and now comes the big question: Do you think that the relationship can be fixed or not? Only you and your W can answer this one, but if you think the marriage is truly irretrievably broken - perhaps it really is time for you both to move on...


I simply don't know! We've learnt alot throughout the years and we implemented alot of working changes during our seperation... hell I was falling in love with her all over again but we fked up on V-day. Only way this can be fixed is if we BOTH want it badly enough but I don't know if she even wants to, especially with this "friend" of hers... I've never had to compete for a very, VERY long time. But I can't claim her anymore!

@Dymo

Yes... it's a good thing. It's just really fking sh-t that she grew a backbone only fking now while she's on the other side of the freakin fence, and with this "friend". You're right though, I have no real idea where she stands, everything is still guesswork in regards to her true feelings. Still, I don't like this "other man" fking hovering over our lives trying to be a vulture... wish I had a gun to blow the fker outta the sky. My wife has always been honest, sometimes she omits, tells half-truths, but she's never been one to lie. Ok, maybe he's friendzoned now but if I do nothing who knows what may happen.

Thoughts of some prick ploughing my wife does not sit well in my head! Sure, she's STBX... but I'm still going NUTS! *sigh* Anyway if we were to reconcile, I don't know, the thing is that we were actually progressing very well until V-day when I fked up. We were close to breakthrough I guess, unless all of it was just her faking it. We CAN do it, if we stick to being a team.

Hell I don't think even she can doubt that... if she even wants to anymore. Guess there's only one way to find out isn't there?

@Shadow



> But ultimately, you have to look within yourself for the answer. Is it your innate resistance to change talking or do you truly believe that your relationship with your STBX has a chance?


I have no chance without her helping me make it work. The reality of losing her is slapping me in the face, she's no longer that woman who broke down in front of me in tears, I can see that she has regained alot of her backbone. And reflecting upon both our last and second last meeting... it seems she's come to realise how poisonous I truly was to her self-esteem.

Even trying to help her rebuild her self-esteem was futile, she had to rebuild it on her own, which it looks like she's done. We had co-dependency problems due to this as well. Hell the only reason why she decided to talk to me again was due to my letter, where I owned up to alot, forgave alot.

*sigh* Ok guys, you think it's a good idea to just go up to her tomorrow morning and tell her exactly how I feel, ignoring how it's going to look for her to see me break down?

Hell, chances I just might with all this emotional BS in my head 

Or hell am I going in circles... perhaps I'm still just trying to hold onto something that's already gone. Ah hell, I need to take my pills and pass out.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

It sounds like you just don't like the idea of some other guy plowing that field that you yourself were plowing 3 times a day. But you didn't want it, you threw it away....but you don't want anyone else to have it either? Good luck with that. I don't think the emotion you're feeling is love. It's regret, or jealousy or something else. You want what someone else has now. Perhaps the emotion you're feeling is envy.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

RD it's only been 3 months.

Does this really have to be decided today?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yes, the "other man" has messed up my mind something bad, I do need to calm down, gather my thoughts, and analyse the situation. I thought I could handle it, but I guess not, at least I didn't go bonkers in front of her eh?

She was half-asleep today when I went to pick up my daughter, saving grace I guess, last night felt like I should break down and ask her back... how pathetic. It's been 3 months real seperation - but we only have half a year to go before each of us are armed with the divorce pen. And now with this OM I'm feeling the sense of urgency.

Regret, jealousy, yes I'm feeling those things. Hence I can't say confidently if I'm still truly in love with these emotions blinding me. Perhaps I'm still holding onto something that is already gone. And btw, I didn't throw her away, I just wanted our sex life to be more balanced, for her to see love either than through sex, and no sex demon. As for the other man, I shouldn't really mind, but he sounds opportunist, and I don't like vultures, but maybe that's just jealousy talking.

I still can't bring myself to bang someone else, and if my wife has been telling the truth, then I may not be too late if she's feeling the same way in regards to sex with someone else. Hell I don't know what to do >.<

Need to relax first I guess, thanks though


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hell I was just thinking, considering my STBX and I are no longer hating on each other, I could get her to tag along tomorrow with our daughter. Besides... I may even be reminding her of my "competitive advantage", our daughter loves us both and we both love her dearly, and I doubt she would be very happy with this OM. Besides she's been bugging us to go out as a family again, which we haven't done for 3 months.

Ah hell WHAT AM I THINKING >.<
Strange really, my STBX's hotness factor rose quite high thanks to my jealousy. Ah nevermind... I think I'll just focus on being a dad this weekend and try not to think about STBX... somehow.

Damn it, been running scenarios in my head, what have the two been discussing? Maybe she vents about me to him, and he's probably going "What a douche!" "He doesn't appreciate you" etc etc. Bah! I still want to cave his face in even though I don't even know who he is.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Go read your other posts, dude. You were done. You were checked out. You were ready for casual sex with whoever you could find. And now suddenly you hear that she's been seeing someone for awhile, and you're right back to wanting to reconcile. 

And for what it's worth... The Other Man isn't your problem. What's most likely happened (besides the fact that given your wife's story, she's probably had sex with him) is that he's been strung along with all sorts of lines about the marriage being over and dead, no chance for reconciliation, etc... So wrecking your life over the satisfaction of popping him one in the face is a fool's game.

Get over her already. Go date. Do something. She's clearly telling you she's moving on. 

C


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

*sigh*

You're right...

And that's true, I forgot everything since I learnt of the OM. Even if she was lying to me about not fking him, I shouldn't blame her, one of my mates could even have snitched, perhaps even innocently that I've been going out. I've gone as far as inviting them home. What's people to think, even if she did poke deep enough she would know that I haven't had sex with anyone else.

But hell who knows, she maybe didn't even care enough to poke AT ALL. She sure as hell didn't even care enough anymore since I fked up on V-day, she decided she wasn't going to fight anymore, she made her fking decision. I've crossed the line, even if I have yet to get over my wife... no my EX wife, or soon to be...

I have to stop thinking about her, especially everytime I see another woman, I'm missing opportunities to move on. I've suddenly forgotten what she herself did to get us up to this point. I've forgiven her but I shouldn't have forgotten. There's so many other beautiful women out there, so fk it. She was just a number.

She's the mother of my first child, nothing more. I have to tell myself that.

*sigh*
Thanks
Alright, I'm... better now

Ok FK it, next week, I'm plowing
NO MORE EXCUSES


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

By the way, wasn't she the one that wanted to plow your ass and wouldn't heed the stop words during sex plays? How was it that you were the one who was toxic to her self-esteem?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, she never plowed my ass, even when she traumatised me years ago before marriage with that stunt she pulled with the leather strap, probably only because I wasn't in the position for butt plowing. Who knows what could have happened. Yes, she doesn't heed safewords, though on V-day she claims she just wanted me to trust her, that she would never do what she did to me years ago again. She fked up just as much as me, I fked up by giving her the tools to fk up.

As for being toxic to her self esteem, I was very young and stupid in my early 20s, I cheated on her with a ONS, flirted with other women, rejected her countless times when she wanted sex due to her demands, refused to be vulnerable emotionally, etc etc. I've my mistakes to own up to, and I did.

I've learnt from them, but she was still pissed over V-day for 3 months and it looks like she has found someone else last 2 months, so hey, fk it. I'm planning to take out a few dates next week, and hope at least one hasn't lost her patience because I've not made a move for physical affection with anyone.

Besides, some of them are actually decent looking plows. Just couldn't see it with my ex in my mind all the damn time. I'll force it, need to break the barrier. Need to get over her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, what can I possibly do at this point? She has someone else, and probably fking him like no tomorrow, moaning and sucking and riding and getting plowed by him. And I bet he's loving it, a pretty blonde with long legs and smooth skin with an intense sex drive. Besides she grew backbone, so chances are she got her esteem fix from him, not from some soon to be ex husband who turned her down so many times over the years.

Hell how many men could say no to an aggressive woman? I complained when she woke me up with a BJ, I complained when she took the initiative to straddle me out of the blue, I complained about our sex life way too much... we're just not compatible. I like the tease and romance, she likes hard raw sex. I had a woman who many men on this forum would only dream of, and I rejected her, time and time again.

I've come to terms with my own fear of vulnerability only to have V-day happen, to have my trust that she was taking our marriage seriously spat back at my face, and then to have her spout insults and condemning me for starting a drama and apparently being a "wimp" for using safewords. Well she can tie up her new boyfriend and see how he likes it when her demon comes out, she's his problem now... hell he may even enjoy it, who the fk knows, and hey, who the fk cares.

We may have had a connection but we're better off as friends no? At least with this closure we've saved our friendship and it no longer has to be awkward when we inevitably see each other thanks to our daughter. I think it's too late for anything, I no longer see an opportunity, I don't see how you see one; as she's moved on and I have to move on.

Yes, I've learnt how vulnerability is needed in a relationship, I look back and I can see how insensitive I truly was when I hardened my heart and refused to accept her rather clingy affection. But I've also seen how vulnerability with the wrong woman can just bite one in the ass. I have come to terms with my past, I have embraced many aspects of the loving side of me. I was much, much worse in the past, love was alien to me. Now I've tasted it and lived it, and lost it. As for her issues, I can't be co-dependent anymore, she's no longer my problem.

Thanks though, but I reckon it's already too late. Besides, she seems happier and more confident without me anyway. I'm proud of her in a way, and she needs to find her own path. She already has my blessings to leave, how bad would it look on me as well if I go back on my own word, showing her how indecisive I am.

I can't do that, I have to be decisive no?
Next thing I know she won't even be able to respect me as a friend.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Thinking about this further, I think it would be better for your wife to get out of the relationship. You talk about respecting her for being hard.
> You want to drag her back in time and she needs to leave the past behind if she will ever excise her demons. Divorce might be the best thing that ever happened to her. She will get the chance to move ahead and find a man who cherishes that girl inside who is starved for love and caring.


Correct, she's better off in the end. I'm feeling better now as well, realising this. It's for the best.



> If she has been abused, she had to push the innocent needy girl way down deep. Your STBX probably thought it was safe to reveal herself to you because she thought you loved her.
> You proved her wrong, no?. You despised and disrespected the real woman who needs to be seen and loved beyond her smooth skin, looks and sex.


No Catherine, I loved the real woman, but the real woman is already dead. Note too that the ironic thing was that I actually initially didn't find her all that attractive, physically she wasn't my type. She gained my interest first as we spent time together as friends, where we grew to become best of mates for a full year. I was with someone else at that time.

During that time she taught me alot, how to deal with people and especially acting with a bit more... "class", I was still rather fresh off the streets when I first met her, and she was by far way more outgoing then me; I wasn't anti-social per se, but I was very distrustful to anyone I didn't know, she made me a social person. She also taught me how to forgive, and helped me forgive my parents for my abandonment during my teens. It's because of her that I've reconciled with my family.

She has contributed alot to my life, and I fell in love with her for it. However, I was still with someone else, who I could not get rid of out of fear of what she might do to me or herself (that one was nuts). Eventually thanks to my STBX, I grew some balls and broke up. STBX refused to be a rebound, so she pushed me away when I first began being romantically suggestive. It didn't last however.



> Has she ever had a man who stood by her and loved her as a person. She's had men who enjoyed getting sex or liked her body or liked having a hot gf to wear on their arm. But she has not experienced a true and deep love has she? I hope some day she will have that.


I once stood by her and loved her as a person prior to when our problems began to manifest. Her past never bothered me, but it was not a bed of roses either, her race bothered me (I wanted to contribute to my people's current low population due to historical genocides), and my religion bothered her (I was pagan, and she became evangelistic after bible college), and we began to have issues with that.

It was then when things began to change, and I dare say it was during her time in bible college when I watched the real woman die. She was once accepting, she became judgemental, she was once humble, she became arrogant, she became self-absorbed in what she considered her "purpose in life", which was originally to help others who suffered the life she had during her youth. It soon became the desire to open up her own church, to reach high status in her church community, and to "save/convert" the infidel - me included.

I supported her, until I saw that she changed too much and for the worse. I still to this day have a vendetta against that particular church, a church that at present day is surrounded by controversy and considered by other Christians as a cult.

So again Catherine; No, she wasn't a trophy (hell in fact I was even publicly embarrassed dating her), or a sex object, or whatever to me. She was my best friend, my lover, and I wanted to show her the love that she never experienced with past men. Unfortunately it turns out years later post-marriage that such non-sexual love means nothing to her in the end.



> I hope she can excise her demons and find a man who can see past the mask, the body, the sex and cherish the woman beneath. I bet she is an awesome person. I don't think you can do that for her. PS: my sister, who was 2 yrs older than I, was beautiful and attracted a lot of male attention. She was used for sex when she was young and she could not become hard like your wife.
> 
> She became sad and depressed. She died in her early 20's never having experience a man's love. She had a lot of male attention but not love. I think I understand your wife a bit.


She was an awesome person, I just had no idea how damaged she truly was until I married her, when she began demanding sex lest she chucked tantrums. *You are correct that I can't help her exorcise her demons or help with her issues.* If another man can, he must be Jesus.

*Knowing her for 7 years I do know that before she can cherish non-sexual love, she has to learn to love herself for who she is*. Everything I expressed I loved about her meant nothing, she wanted to be used, sex was the only expression of love she cared about, but I couldn't give her that. I wanted to love her in more ways then just sex, while she felt insecure everytime I didn't fk her brains out.

Even as hardened as I was in my younger days my loving side came out in the form of romance. I enjoyed sweeping her off her feet and spoiling her. She appreciated it, laughed at my jokes, enjoyed my company as much as I enjoyed hers. We were at one time, to both ourselves and to observers, inseperable.

Yet all of this still comes down to the fact that her past is not dealt with. Her religion once helped her, but I've taken that away from her by confusing it with mine. Her faith in her God that saved her is now nothing compared to how it was before, but I could not stand her evangelism when we married, so I had to break her. So now, she has nothing, she faces her past with her feet both firmly on the ground and no longer in the clouds.

But hey, she's not my problem anymore. I loved the woman she was, not the woman she has become, a shell, an imposter, an image of the woman that I once loved that I could not bear to lose or to live without. No, the woman I love has died years ago.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> It sounds like you just don't like the idea of some other guy plowing that field that you yourself were plowing 3 times a day. But you didn't want it, you threw it away....but you don't want anyone else to have it either? Good luck with that. I don't think the emotion you're feeling is love. It's regret, or jealousy or something else. You want what someone else has now. Perhaps the emotion you're feeling is envy.


This.

To OP: dude...I just don't understand your thinking here.

Everything I've read from you showed you pulling away from your wife. You eventually ended things and now you want back in? Do not understand.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I don't really know the whole story but it seems to me there is way too much baggage between you to ever have a life together with any semblance of normalcy. It would be a one in million shot. If this were a movie you'd overcome all the odds and get back together however we're talking real life here. 

Get yourself whole before you consider another relationship. If you do get into dating keep it light. It seems to me it would be very easy for you to fall into another dysfunctional relationship at this point. At this point focus on being the best man and father you can be. Everything else will follow once you accomplish that. 

Take care,


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks guys, and don't worry, it's done. I'm moving on. I was in a bad way before, but now I'm better. 

Anyways please, let this thread die. It's been over a week, and more than enough time for me to pick up the pieces. We're on good terms, we're cooperative when it comes to finances, our daughter, and our impending divorce, that's more than I could have hoped for.

This is the best note that I can end it on, so I'll leave it as that.

My heart is hardened, I'll be fine. Besides, I've got new women to ram!


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