# I'm safe (beta), but boring. How do I keep wife's interest?



## upstate_guy (Oct 28, 2010)

I've been feeling a little down on myself lately in the aftermath of my wife having an EA. It's ended now but went on for 3 months and I helped cause it by not being very attentive to my wife's needs, which caused her to look elsewhere. 

Now that I'm focusing much more attention on her and we're talking more than we ever have.. I find that I don't have a whole lot to say. I've always been a quiet person by nature, that's just who I am, but my wife has told me that I'm the first "normal" person she dated. She's an artistic type and was always drawn to artists, musicians, etc. I try to resist categorizing people by 'type' but I know that I'm not very much like other guys she was with before we met. I also know that she was attracted to what she termed 'deep' guys.. and does not consider me to be one. I think this mostly a side effect of my not being very good at conversation.

I have a good job, dress well, we have a nice house together, but I feel like that stuff is all sort of superficial. The cost to being able to provide the life we have together is that I spent 8 hours a day in a little office programming computers. Then I come home after work and I don't really know what to say to my wife other than "how was your day?". Our careers are very different and I struggle to find anything in my workday that's worth talking about with her. We spend the majority of our time outside work together, which doesn't leave me with a lot of opportunities to come up with new 'material' for our conversations.

The OM in my wife's EA is an ex-boyfriend who's now a touring musician living the unfettered lifestyle; on the road, going from city to city with no attachments, and I'm feeling like I don't know how to compete with that and I look boring in comparison. They exchanged really long emails talking about all sorts of existential topics that my wife never discusses with me and I feel pretty burned about that; I feel like she and I don't talk about anything deeper than what movie to see this weekend or what groceries go on the shopping list.

She and I were also at a party recently with a bunch of grad students and my wife got really involved in a conversation with a guy who is doing interesting research in the local community; then she talked about what a cool guy he was on our drive home while I fumed a little bit on the inside.

I'm not sure what to do. My wife has said that she was attracted to the fact that I am comfortable to be around, I wasn't like other guys she'd been with, etc., and I must have done something right because she chose to date me for years and then marry me. The EA has got me paranoid now though that I'm not going to be 'enough' for her and she is going to continue to seek intellectual/social stimulation elsewhere. Do I just need to find some outside hobbies and do more things outside our relationship? Find out how to become a better conversationalist? Quit my job and become a starving artist?


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

U said you feel like you caused the EA? Did she ever tell you that you weren't being attentive enough. She feels as though she is missing something? Sometimes they feel like the grass is always greener... till they step out of their comfort zone and get used by the people they are so fascinated with. Meet her halfway, assure her you can be that guy she can talk with, lean on, depend on. She has to assure you to take the marriage seriously and cut out the foolishness.


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## upstate_guy (Oct 28, 2010)

Rob - W said that she was in a 'dark place' when the EA started (she was dealing with the death of a close family member) and that she tried to get me to help her but didn't know how to say it. (We continue to work on being better communicators with each other.)

I think there was definitely a 'grass is greener' component to it. And once we talked about the EA she sent him an email that has ended all contact between them (it's been a month now with no contact between them AFAIK) and we've been working on our relationship. I'm just paranoid that over time she's going to get that itch again.

But, I think it's human nature for people to think about where their life might have ended up if they made different choices, and grass is greener definitely comes into that. I find that personally, when I'm happy, I don't really sweat all the 'might have beens' in my life.. it's when things are rough and I'm struggling that I look more to my past for comfort and maybe that's all there was to it with my wife. 

Maybe we just need to keep our focus on being happy in the here & now and all those other alternatives won't be as appealing any more.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Being engaging doesn't necessarily mean that you need to say a lot.

Ask questions. Questions that will engage her. Then the important part is to let
her talk. Let her answer - and you listen. Ask her more questions based upon what you have gleaned
from listening.

MEM says it all the time, but it needs repeating all the time; ask her what her likes are. What does she dream about? What are her turn ons? What are her turn offs?
The more you know about her needs, the better equipped you are to meet them. You don't need to be a sparkling conversationalist to achieve those things.

If she tries to turn it into a fitness test and when you ask her a question, she says "Well tell me what you think, and then I'll answer ..." either be fully prepared to answer it in a playful manner, or respond calmly with, "Didn't mean to put you on the spot or make you feel uncomfortable, I just wanted to talk and connect." Then walk away. Be done. Odds are she will either try to recover the encounter, or spontaneously answer you later on.

No doubt you can get other great tips here, but I will bottom line this for you, and I strongly urge you to do it. Go buy a Pickup Artist Book. If this notion turns your stomach, take that as a sign that it is the VERY thing that you should do.

I believe that Athol endorses "The Mystery Method"

I got "The LayGuide", it is linked in the Man Up Books thread.

You want to actually learn how to come across as more exciting and be a better conversationalist and learn skills to re-engage your wife? Buy one of those books. Their primary focus is to help make you look 'cool' and attractive.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

So I see "beta" in your title, so I am assuming something of alpha/beta ideas are familiar to you, so to save time, here is some blunt replies to help you.



upstate_guy said:


> I've been feeling a little down on myself lately in the aftermath of my wife having an EA. It's ended now but went on for 3 months and I helped cause it by not being very attentive to my wife's needs, which caused her to look elsewhere.


First, drop the "not attentive to wife's needs" nonsense.

Do not accept blame for your wife's misdeeds.

Do not accept your woman even remotely insinuating it was something you have done.

Blame her, be jealous of her, do not hold back how you feel about her behavior.

Believe this, this is exactly what she is wishing you to do, to be a man that will tell it like it is, stand for himself, not back down to put her in her place when time coming, and never to tuck tail and mope and blame yourself for your woman's shenanigan's. 



> Now that I'm focusing much more attention on her and we're talking more than we ever have..


This may be okay for awhile, but it will not last.

Do not make your woman the centerpiece of your existence. 

I am saying this from the heart, do NOT do this!!!!



> I find that I don't have a whole lot to say. I've always been a quiet person by nature, that's just who I am, but my wife has told me that I'm the first "normal" person she dated.


Red flag.

Tell me, honestly, why you believe she is with you being this first "normal" person?



> She's an artistic type and was always drawn to artists, musicians, etc. I try to resist categorizing people by 'type' but I know that I'm not very much like other guys she was with before we met. I also know that she was attracted to what she termed 'deep' guys.. and does not consider me to be one. I think this mostly a side effect of my not being very good at conversation.


So what?

Do you need to measure up to these old attractions?

Personally, I would never care what sort deep/artist/weirdo she was supposed to be attracted to in the past.

Put this as far away as possible.

Nothing inviting disaster to try to become something you are not, particularly something beneath you.



> I have a good job, dress well, we have a nice house together, but I feel like that stuff is all sort of superficial. The cost to being able to provide the life we have together is that I spent 8 hours a day in a little office programming computers. Then I come home after work and I don't really know what to say to my wife other than "how was your day?".


Red Flag.

You sound very "nice guy" in this paragraph. 



> Our careers are very different and I struggle to find anything in my workday that's worth talking about with her. We spend the majority of our time outside work together, which doesn't leave me with a lot of opportunities to come up with new 'material' for our conversations.


Resume the activities, hobbies and interests you had before you married your woman.

Remember, the interests you used to do and have that you enjoyed, when your woman found you "interesting"? I hope you see what I am saying.



> The OM in my wife's EA is an ex-boyfriend who's now a touring musician living the unfettered lifestyle; on the road, going from city to city with no attachments, and I'm feeling like I don't know how to compete with that and I look boring in comparison.


This is the old, old story. 

You are not alone in this at all. 

To compete, this is really easy. Don't.

Your "competition" is not this unfettered other man. 

Your competition is only in yourself, to not be the kind of man that finds it okay that he must even compete at all with ANY other man for your wife's affection and attention.



> They exchanged really long emails talking about all sorts of existential topics that my wife never discusses with me and I feel pretty burned about that; I feel like she and I don't talk about anything deeper than what movie to see this weekend or what groceries go on the shopping list.


Need something deep to talk about with your woman?

I can help.

Start with talking about how she is not longer going to be tolerated communicating and flirting with ex boyfriends, and if she is unwilling to act as a responsible woman and show even the ounce of respect to her husband, and stop this nonsense, that she can pack her bags and hit the curb.

By the way, are you aware there are over 3 billion other women in the world? 

That's "billion" with a "b".




> She and I were also at a party recently with a bunch of grad students and my wife got really involved in a conversation with a guy who is doing interesting research in the local community; then she talked about what a cool guy he was on our drive home while I fumed a little bit on the inside.


Google "sh!t test".

And learn how to deal with them WHEN they come up.

ANd they will come up, in the troubled relationship and the most perfect marriages in the history of the world.

A woman, she WILL test her man.

The man that does not recognize these tests, and avoids or in other ways fails them, he is the miserable marriage man.

The good man that recognizes these tests and passes them, he is the happy marriage man.

The good man that recognizes, passes, and even can flip these test back on his woman, and do so with a smile or a smirk or humor, and enjoys himself doing so in all this, he is the happy marriage man with more sexual connection to his woman that he can stand.



> I'm not sure what to do. My wife has said that she was attracted to the fact that I am comfortable to be around, I wasn't like other guys she'd been with, etc., and I must have done something right because she chose to date me for years and then marry me.


This is also a sh!t test, that you "must have done something right". 

How about that she must have done something right to win the affection of a good, hard working man, and she better keep on the straight and narrow lest she find her self in some consequence she is not wanting? 



> The EA has got me paranoid now though that I'm not going to be 'enough' for her and she is going to continue to seek intellectual/social stimulation elsewhere.


Clamp down on your woman's behavior.

Your jealousy, unleash it.

Your unhappiness, express it.



> Do I just need to find some outside hobbies and do more things outside our relationship?


Do this always, ALL GOOD MEN, even if you the happiest man in the happiest marriage ever, do not give up your hobbies or interest.

It is what makes you interesting to others, especially your woman.



> Find out how to become a better conversationalist?


I have given you some suggestions already for conversation.

Become better at this, fitness tests.

Look inside yourself for this attitude, this attitude that you can have ANY of these 3 BILLION women in the world, yet the one women in all these 3 BILLION women that you desire is YOUR woman, and how lucky SHE must be to be so deserving of your attention.

No longer, from this day, even this very second, should you do or say or act or behave in any way whatsoever that you yourself are somehow "lucky" to be with your woman.

Your woman, any woman actually, will resent a man that acts or behaves like he must kiss her butt for her to be with him.



> Quit my job and become a starving artist?


Only, and I mean ONLY, if that is what you are wanting to do yourself.

In no way follow your woman.

In no way, live to please your woman, or kiss her butt.

Your own life, live it, reclaim it, pursue your own interests or hobbies.

Your woman, indeed she married you and was attracted to you for a reason.

That reason, the man that you are.

Do not waste another second to try to be some other man, that way is only misery and dissappointment!

Instead, pursue YOUR happiness and bliss, and then invite your woman to pursue happines WITH you.

This way is the way to the happy married man and woman in marriage! 

I wish you well.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

BigBadWolf said:


> Do not waste another second to try to be some other man, that way is only misery and dissappointment!
> 
> Instead, pursue YOUR happiness and bliss, and then invite your woman to pursue happines WITH you.
> 
> ...


This advice, without question, is the gold standard. This is about you - not her.


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## upstate_guy (Oct 28, 2010)

Thanks guys. As always, you help me get my head on straight during moments of doubt. 

BBW, you've given me a lot to chew on, but you're right in that there's no reason for me to try and be something I'm not. I posted a separate thread a while back about "self improvement" and that's really the approach I'm trying to follow; to be a better version of myself and better represent my core values; not trying to become someone else that I think my wife might be more attracted to.

Rest assured that I'll be re-reading your replies often! The fitness test/**** test concept is relatively new one to me and I still have trouble picking up on situations where I'm being tested, but at least now I am able to identify them after the fact and realize how I could have responded differently. I definitely still need more practice with that.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Wolf,

You are really great.

You really know how to fix problems! 

upstate guy,

What wolf mentioned is very true. We should never try to be somebody else. We should focus on us and perfect us.

I am sure you have something which is unique about you, women also want stability and security, I don't think that man can compete with you in this area. 

Actually stability and security is more important for us. If she is smart, she should know that being a traveler's woman is boring too, she has to spend a lot of time alone. And dangerous, since the man is always tempted by other women. She should know that. 

Find some hobbies, make yourself happy. Find some jokes, women also like to laugh, especially from their husbands' jokes.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

upstate_guy said:


> Thanks guys. As always, you help me get my head on straight during moments of doubt.
> 
> BBW, you've given me a lot to chew on, but you're right in that there's no reason for me to try and be something I'm not. I posted a separate thread a while back about "self improvement" and that's really the approach I'm trying to follow; to be a better version of myself and better represent my core values; not trying to become someone else that I think my wife might be more attracted to.
> 
> Rest assured that I'll be re-reading your replies often! The fitness test/**** test concept is relatively new one to me and I still have trouble picking up on situations where I'm being tested, but at least now I am able to identify them after the fact and realize how I could have responded differently. I definitely still need more practice with that.


When your woman says "you must have done something right" etc etc, she is wanting, and you are needing, to show her that instead, she has done something right that you so strongly desire her (she has something YOU want, and you are wanting and willing to pursue this, always this, and not "luck"). Instead of builing resentment, your woman is inviting you to instead rip her clothes off her and show her how lucky she is to have you as her man. 

When your woman says some other man "is soooo interesting" etc etc, she is wanting, and you are needing, to show her instead how much more the man you are than any of these other type men. Instead of fuming, this would be an opportunity to pull the car into a dark alley and ravish your woman. Show her how much different indeed you are than any of these wandering artist men, how much primal and dark and overwhelming desire you have for your woman, to make her in her mind realize these artist men are not much more than boys compared to you, her man!

Fitness tests, learn to recognize them, pass them, master them and see through the mere words to the reality that your woman is communicating to you, and the feelings she is missing and the actions and behaviors she wants to see demonstrated by you, her man.

So also this thread may be helpful on this topic.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Ah - the power of the geek factor. 

Yes it is true I know what my W is interested in. That said I scan the newspaper online - sometimes I read news of the weird or look for funny but true stories. My curse/gift is that I have excellent recall of what I read. So I usually have one or more funny/entertaining stories I can relate to her. The best ones are stories that I can link back to people we know or situations we have been in. 

Being a skilled conversationalist is more about being curious and genuinely interested in other people than it is about being glib / having incredible timing on jokes. 

There are times though when there are topics I am interested in that she isn't. I have learned to pick up on that and ask "darling is this dreadfully boring to you? you know I am happy to change the station for you - as always you have the remote - just don't hit the power button". This is just a little banter about the fact that I am glad to switch topic areas "stations" as well as a light dig because when we watch tv she ALWAYS has the remote. 

Sometimes I take it away from her to provoke a wrestling match and if she is feeling naughty she escalates the wrestling and gets a spanking. 





Deejo said:


> Being engaging doesn't necessarily mean that you need to say a lot.
> 
> Ask questions. Questions that will engage her. Then the important part is to let
> her talk. Let her answer - and you listen. Ask her more questions based upon what you have gleaned
> ...


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Ah - the power of the geek factor.
> 
> Yes it is true I know what my W is interested in. That said I scan the newspaper online - sometimes I read news of the weird or look for funny but true stories. My curse/gift is that I have excellent recall of what I read. So I usually have one or more funny/entertaining stories I can relate to her. The best ones are stories that I can link back to people we know or situations we have been in.
> 
> ...


Wa ha,

My husband always does that. 

He tells me what happened to his class during the day. Students really like him because he is a funny teacher, and they don't mind acting silly in front of him. I remember one time my husband came home and told me: I have this boy student, he came into the classroom and told everybody: I AM VERY TIRED. MY PERIOD HAS COME.................

Very often he sees something funny on the Internet, he will show me, or if he reads something interesting from the books, he will share it with me. 

When he goes to work, that's what he says to me: I am off to make money to support your extravagant life style!!! 

Everyday he would say something and make me laugh. I had posted a lot of our jokes on a Chinese forum, made a lot of people laugh!

Sounds like his job is to make me laugh!!!

I have big smiles when I write this!!!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Conflict + Humor = passion/lust 





greenpearl said:


> Wa ha,
> 
> My husband always does that.
> 
> ...


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Conflict + Humor = passion/lust


What is your definition of "conflict"?

My husband and I always discuss things, sometimes we agree with each other, sometimes we don't agree with each other. But when we talk, the tone is always respectful. 

I am happy when I hear my husband says " I agree ". It means "I am smart!"

I learn a lot when he says " I don't agree ". It means " I will be smart!" 

Is this the kind of "conflict" you are talking about?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Conflict + Humor = passion/lust


Absolute truth


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Ah - the power of the geek factor.
> 
> Yes it is true I know what my W is interested in. That said I scan the newspaper online - sometimes I read news of the weird or look for funny but true stories. My curse/gift is that I have excellent recall of what I read. So I usually have one or more funny/entertaining stories I can relate to her. The best ones are stories that I can link back to people we know or situations we have been in.
> 
> ...


No self-respecting man ever allows his women control of the remote :rofl: j/k


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

LOL 

Heres our deal:
- Most things don't matter to me. 
- Most things matter to her.
- Mostly we do things the way she wants except in the areas I actually care about. In those areas we pretty much do things exactly the way I like. 

She treats me with respect and has given me total control of our sex life - which I do not abuse. She is really fun to be with in and out of bed. 

I have a "virtual remote" which has a special button on it. When I push it W goes and takes a shower and allows the water to transform her into the western version of a geisha girl. I prefer that to a 100 TV remotes.



Kobo said:


> No self-respecting man ever allows his women control of the remote :rofl: j/k


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> LOL
> 
> Heres our deal:
> - Most things don't matter to me.
> ...



I hear you. The control of the remote is one of those stupid ideas that go around. I'm more like you that most things aren't a big deal. My wife is that way also so we have a very easy going house most of the time. Time to time we just get on each other's last nerve. LOL


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

Despite your very analytical and neutral description of these events, i'll bet you are very angry. I'll bet this situation has stirred great passion in you and is really burning you up.

My guess is that you are keeping this emotion inside. You kill two birds with one stone if you let all of your emotions for this out without holding back....you get it out and establish your position in this marriage and she sees that you are human and not just a 'boring' techie with no emotion or passion.

I'll bet you are very torn up by this. Tell her exactly how her having another guy's penis banging inside her makes you feel. I'm graphic for a reason - euphemisms like she 'slept with someone' just hold back the emotion. She wants a passionate, deep guy so share with her the darkness that this is causing with you. Be very honest. Don't approach this like you are designing a computer program. 

This will expose some weakness on your part but mainly it will establish your strength in being able to strongly express yourself without holding back (which has always been a problem for you). Good luck.


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## marco100 (Nov 25, 2010)

upstate guy,

if you really want to "alpha-up", then, assuming you don't have kids, you might want to seriously consider just filing for divorce from this woman.

A 3 month EA is a long time. With an ex-bf she no doubt feels she's "in love" with the guy. (Old flame type affairs are the most destructive and hard to quench.) The odds are very great that it's gone physical and may still be on-going. Also not good at all, is she's already hitting on other guys and talking them up to you.

This woman is a walk-away wife who simply hasn't decided who she's going to walk away with, yet. 

Also, you responded exactly the wrong way--by accepting blame for her bad behavior and by co-dependently trying to cater to her in response to it. So rather than any consequences for her bad behavior, she gets rewarded.

My friend unfortunately it sounds like you married one of these females who craves the bad boy for sexual and emotional excitement but marries the good guy/beta for financial security and social status reasons. You said it yourself: The two of you have almost nothing in common.

I think things are much much worse than you now know because cheaters lie and your wife sounds like a master manipulator. There's NO WAY she didn't have sex with the ex-bf, unless it was absolutely impossible for them to have had any physical contact in that three month period (that you know about, it could have been longer than three months you know). Unless her whereabouts are accounted for 24/7 they could have met somewhere for a tryst.

Dude you are playing in the big leagues now.

This isn't about your own emotional fulfillment or catering to your wife or any of that nice stuff. This is about YOU deciding whether there is any point in wasting any more time with a cheating skank. No one could blame you for filing divorce immediately. However if that's a little bit unpalatable then you need to hire a private investigator to track her activities and definitely demand she submit to a polygraph exam.

The woman that you married and love isn't the woman you think she is at all. She's a liar, she's a cheat, she's a conniving manipulator, and she has absolutely no respect for you. To her, you're a means to an end--you provide a nice financial cushion as a backstop for when she's out doing what she really wants--that is, f*cking her hot ex-boyfriends and out on the prowl looking for new ones to f*ck.


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