# What to do? Need men's opinion



## notreadytoquit

I need a guy’s opinion on my problem.

We have been married for 5 years and together for 9 years. We have a 1 yr old child. We have had a very loving relationship, open communication and lots of trust between us. If there was a problem we always discussed it and dealt with it together. He had until recently a very stressful job from which he was let go(but with a very good severance package).

This past year was not easy for me. I found motherhood to be more challenging than I thought so I might have not been the nicest person to him sometimes. But I have never been disrespectful and we have really not had any major fights. I am doing better now with the mother hood part.

About a month ago I noticed a strange behavior from my husband. We went away to visit family and ever since coming back he now sleeps in a different bedroom and he would not talk to me when I asked him what the problem was, no hugs, kisses or “I love yous”. Interestingly enough, he would talk, laugh about other things with me, would talk about our child but he would not tell me what is bothering him. If someone from outside saw us, he/she would never think anything was wrong in our marriage. The other night he just said that things have not been going well for us for a while (I don’t know what for a while means to him) and I have not seen any indications of that until about a month ago. He said that he had lots of things on his mind and that he needed to be left alone. So ever since then, I left him alone. I act as If nothing is wrong even though inside my heart is breaking every minute of the day. I love him so much and I also consider him my best friend. I don’t want this marriage to end and my child grows up without the presence of one parent. I have gone with million scenarios in my head of what could be wrong and I even checked his emails sent to me from about a month ago. He would use terms of endearment, tell me that he loves me at the end of emails, hug and kiss when he would come from work.

As for the sex life, we have had none since I gave birth, but not because I did not want to. I tried to initiate it few times, but he would say he was tired and genuinely we were both tired at that time. I even told him once that I did not want that to affect our marriage. He said not to worry just to focus on our child for now. Before we had our child we had amazing sex life and we both enjoyed it very much. 

Even the thought of an affair went through my mind but I don’t really see any signs of that. I even checked his cell phone (I hate to do this) but nothing unusual there, nothing in his email (we have always had access to each other’s emails, at least I have nothing to hide), no unusual absences from home.

I am young, attractive, I pretty much lost all the pregnancy weight and I try to take care of myself us much as time permits. I stay at home to take care of the child, take care of the house, make sure there is a home cooked meal on the table every day, do most of the grocery shopping and many other things.
I really don’t know what to do.

Do I just give him the space and see what happens?

I even considered talking to two of his closer friends and see if he has said something to them. One is a male co worker to whom he is pretty close friend and the other one is a childhood female friend. I don’t know if this would be a good idea.

I thought maybe I should put on a piece of paper how I feel and maybe he will read it if he does not want to discuss it.

This whole thing feels like someone kidnapped the husband I knew and put an impostor in his place. All I want is my husband back and my marriage back on track.

I would appreciate your honest opinions.


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## Deejo

See what mileage you get when you say these words to him:
"I appreciate your hard work. Thank you for taking care of us. I miss you."


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## cody5

There are a million reasons a spouse can pull away from their significant other. In this case, cheating doesn't sound like one of them. From reading these posts, it seems like cheaters most times INCREASE sexual contat with their spouse to cover their tracks. I've also read theories that they pull away like your husband is so they can tell the mistress that they are screwing "only you", but it doesn't look like you have ANY evidence of an affair. 

When he went away, could he have heard some info that would cause this? Something that put him into a depressive state? Did you say something to piss him off. Is ther ANYTHING you can think of? Someone in his family or a friend who may want to sabatoge your marriage and told him something?


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## notreadytoquit

cody5 said:


> When he went away, could he have heard some info that would cause this? Something that put him into a depressive state? Did you say something to piss him off. Is ther ANYTHING you can think of? Someone in his family or a friend who may want to sabatoge your marriage and told him something?


Nothing that I am aware of and that is why this is so difficult. The problem right now is that there are lots of problems at his old workplace(layoffs, firings etc) so people try to contact him and among each other, he tries to meet them etc. I don't want to add additional stress to this but at the same time I would like to get some answers. I am very direct and open person and if I have any problem with anyone I deal with the person directly and my husband knows that. If I have done something wrong I would gladly apologize but first I need to know what it is.


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## nice777guy

Maybe I missed it, but did he find another job yet? If so, does he consider the new job to be a step down?

Either way - unemployed or feeling like you've been demoted - both could lead to depression. Men put a lot of their self-esteem and self-worth into their careers.

Check out depressionfallout.com sometime if you think it might be depression. There's a good message board there that may be closer to what you are looking for.


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## notreadytoquit

nice777guy said:


> Maybe I missed it, but did he find another job yet? If so, does he consider the new job to be a step down?
> 
> Either way - unemployed or feeling like you've been demoted - both could lead to depression. Men put a lot of their self-esteem and self-worth into their careers.
> 
> Check out depressionfallout.com sometime if you think it might be depression. There's a good message board there that may be closer to what you are looking for.


He has not found a new job but I don't think he is depressed about this because he had indications that this might happen and he protected himself well. I am sure the job adds additional stress to whatever it is that is bothering him.


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## nice777guy

Even if you are OK financially, its still a big blow to a person's ego to lose their job.

Post this on the depressionfallout.com website and see if it doesn't ring a big bell to a lot of people there.

fyi...its called "fallout" because it refers to those of us left standing around after its hit.

This place is great too - don't get me wrong - but depression is a different animal.


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## notreadytoquit

nice777guy said:


> Even if you are OK financially, its still a big blow to a person's ego to lose their job.
> 
> Post this on the depressionfallout.com website and see if it doesn't ring a big bell to a lot of people there.
> 
> fyi...its called "fallout" because it refers to those of us left standing around after its hit.
> 
> This place is great too - don't get me wrong - but depression is a different animal.


Thanks for the site I will check it out. The thing that is bothering me is why is he saying that things have not been going well for us for a while and then until about a month ago everything seemed fine. That's the thing that puzzles me. He has been in difficult situations before but he never neglected me in this way.


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## nice777guy

I started a thread one day to blow off steam and try to lighten my mood about all of the cliche's we hear.

"Its not you - its me"
"I need to find myself"

Also coming in high on the list was *"things have not been good for a while."* You aren't the first to hear this and be totally confused by it.

I'm sure someone else could explain it better - its like they are trying to justify dropping out of the relationship. They start saying things that don't make sense and often seem to have no real meaning. 

Its possible that he really hasn't been happy - or it could just an excuse.

The good thing is, it doesn't sound like he's having an affair...right? So he's pulling away for some other reason - anger at life, self pity, ??? - he may not even know, and he might need help getting his old self back.

Good luck. Keep searching for opinions. Whatever it is - take care of yourself and try not to take it personally.


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## notreadytoquit

so you are suggesting that I just sit and wait to see what happens?


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## 63Vino

Ill add a new opinion.. I kinda agree with Deejo.. Draw him out with sweetness. Add some safety. You have NO idea whats going on in his head. Don't just sit back until you get sick and tired of it. 
Things like coming up behind him/sitting next to him. Give him a nice kiss. tell him you miss him. Tell him that whatever is going on you want him to be happy. Whatever that means.
Tell him he can tell you anything, and if he feels like he cant he then he is not using your friendship like he should.
Your his partner in life. Try not to put pressure. If you can get him to open a little, keep using that tactic to get more. If you hit a wall, maybe see if you can get him to go to counseling, by himself may be a better place to start.

I can tell you that I personally would shut down on my ex like that... her tip toeing around me for years was no help. Not saying its hers/your responsibility but in a way if you love him, you have an interest in his happiness right?


good luck!


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## notreadytoquit

63Vino said:


> Ill add a new opinion.. I kinda agree with Deejo.. Draw him out with sweetness. Add some safety. You have NO idea whats going on in his head. Don't just sit back until you get sick and tired of it.
> Things like coming up behind him/sitting next to him. Give him a nice kiss. tell him you miss him. Tell him that whatever is going on you want him to be happy. Whatever that means.
> Tell him he can tell you anything, and if he feels like he cant he then he is not using your friendship like he should.
> Your his partner in life. Try not to put pressure. If you can get him to open a little, keep using that tactic to get more. If you hit a wall, maybe see if you can get him to go to counseling, by himself may be a better place to start.
> 
> I can tell you that I personally would shut down on my ex like that... her tip toeing around me for years was no help. Not saying its hers/your responsibility but in a way if you love him, you have an interest in his happiness right?
> 
> 
> good luck!


When I tried to talk to him I did just that but he just seem to try to run away from the conversation and the kisses/hugs etc. That's why I was thinking of putting this in writting and basically telling him that I love him, that I care about him and his well being, telling him how important happiness is in our marriage and if he needed space I would give it to him and let him make the next move.

This morning I brought my child to our bed(remember my husband sleeps in another room). My child started saying Daddy but then realized he is not there. Then he started looking at the door thinking his daddy would come in any minute. My child is a baby and he can't understand what is going on but that just about broke my heart. I told my husband later in the morning that his son was looking for him this morning. He basically pretended that he did not hear my comment and I know he did. But then later in the day he was talking to me about what someone said at work and discussing things as if everything else is normal around the house. Sometimes I feel he does not even want to sit on the same couch.


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## nice777guy

notreadytoquit said:


> so you are suggesting that I just sit and wait to see what happens?


No - not at all. I think the advice from others on this is great.

I would also educate yourself a bit on depression. 

Don't take it personally and let him drag you down with him if he doesn't respond to your attempts to help.

Take care of yourself.


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## 63Vino

K then start stepping it up a notch.. 
Tell him how you feel and what this is causing with you and that he cannot shut you out forever. If he wants you to leave tell him to tell you that, because thats what your starting to think. If still nothing? I dunno.. You can wait forever or maybe start pulling away your self. 

Something is definatly going on with him from what you say..

Letting it simply playout then your just along for the ride and its at best 50/50 as to it going in your favor and this is at a early stage in the marriage.. If it goes like this, this time, it will repeat over and over. If you want it to be different waiting and hoping is not going to change a thing.


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## notreadytoquit

63Vino said:


> Ill add a new opinion.. I kinda agree with Deejo.. Draw him out with sweetness. Add some safety. You have NO idea whats going on in his head. Don't just sit back until you get sick and tired of it.
> Things like coming up behind him/sitting next to him. Give him a nice kiss. tell him you miss him. Tell him that whatever is going on you want him to be happy. Whatever that means.
> Tell him he can tell you anything, and if he feels like he cant he then he is not using your friendship like he should.
> Your his partner in life. Try not to put pressure. If you can get him to open a little, keep using that tactic to get more. If you hit a wall, maybe see if you can get him to go to counseling, by himself may be a better place to start.
> 
> I can tell you that I personally would shut down on my ex like that... her tip toeing around me for years was no help. Not saying its hers/your responsibility but in a way if you love him, you have an interest in his happiness right?
> 
> 
> good luck!


I have tried to sit next to him, to give him a hug or a kiss but it seems like he does not even want to touch me. And if I open up a conversation like you suggest in your post he becomes all so serious and almost pretends like he did not hear what I said. This is so difficult. On top of everything I still have a house and a child to care for.


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## Deejo

My version of stepping it up a notch is it's time to tell him to sh!t or get off the pot.

Ask him; "Do you want to be married to me?"

And regardless of the response, ask him "Why?"

Your other option is to tell him that he needs to engage in the relationship, or if he still has any respect for himself and you - he needs to leave.

Can you elaborate on the issues you had with motherhood and how they affected your husband?


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## notreadytoquit

Deejo said:


> My version of stepping it up a notch is it's time to tell him to sh!t or get off the pot.
> 
> Ask him; "Do you want to be married to me?"
> 
> And regardless of the response, ask him "Why?"
> 
> Your other option is to tell him that he needs to engage in the relationship, or if he still has any respect for himself and you - he needs to leave.
> 
> Can you elaborate on the issues you had with motherhood and how they affected your husband?


When I say issue there were nothing dramatic, pretty much every new mother goes through them. Sometimes I will lose my patience, I would be really tired because I am all day at home with the child and could not wait for him to come from work so I can have a talk with an adult. It was nothing major at least I don't think it was. We have not had any major fights. This sounds all strange because until about a month ago he would come from work, kiss me, tell me he loves me either in person or email from work. This almost happened overnight as if someone kidnapped the husband I knew and put an impostor in his place. 

This morning he came up to our bedroom(we are still in different bedrooms) to give our child a kiss and only after I asked he gave me a kiss on the cheek. I sometimes feel like does not even want to be on the same couch in the living room. I really can't think of an event that might have caused all this. Remember this all started before he lost his job(he had inclinations it would happen so it was not total surprise).

Last night I sat down and put how I feel in a nice letter. I have not given him the letter yet. Still debating if I should or wait few more days to see how he reacts. 

Even if I killed someone I wouldn't have been treated this bad. To me attitude like this is childish. Like two adults we can sit down and discuss whatever it is. I think most relationships fail because there is lack of communication and we have always had great communications between us. I am beyond myself, I really don't know what to do but at the same time I care to keep my marriage and I know I love him still very much.

If I have done something so terribly wrong I would like to know what it is before I apologize.


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## notreadytoquit

Any further thoughts on my problem?


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## f1r3f1y3

I knew my wife was unhappy for a while, it wasn't quite as obvious as with your husband. I kept it inside for ages, I mean I asked her about it but not with any pressure.

It just ate me alive to the point I actually wanted to leave. Me, who loved her so much, she was the centre of my universe, started to prepare mentally for a breakup.

I'm no longer as patient as the people that have replied so far here! 

I sat my wife in a room, closed the door and told her we weren't leaving until we got the to the root. It could have backfired but I had held it in for long enough, I deserved to know what she was feeling and why. That became a real turning point in our relationship.

You deserve to know why he is acting like this and no-one in the world can tell you that except him.


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## notreadytoquit

f1r3f1y3 said:


> I knew my wife was unhappy for a while, it wasn't quite as obvious as with your husband. I kept it inside for ages, I mean I asked her about it but not with any pressure.
> 
> It just ate me alive to the point I actually wanted to leave. Me, who loved her so much, she was the centre of my universe, started to prepare mentally for a breakup.
> 
> I'm no longer as patient as the people that have replied so far here!
> 
> I sat my wife in a room, closed the door and told her we weren't leaving until we got the to the root. It could have backfired but I had held it in for long enough, I deserved to know what she was feeling and why. That became a real turning point in our relationship.
> 
> You deserve to know why he is acting like this and no-one in the world can tell you that except him.


I totally agree with you. After 8 years together, 5 married even if I was the most evil wife on the planet(and I was not) at least I would deserve an explanation. Last night I slipped a letter in his briefcase. It is a nice polite letter that basically says that I still love him, I care for him and for our marriage and that we need to sit down and see what is the big burden he is carrying. I also said that I have always valued our open channel of communication between us and that I appreciate what he does for us. No insults, no blaming for this or that. Since he lost his job he has been working from the office of a friend of ours, trying to find another job since it can get crazy at home with the child. 

Just out of curiosity: You said talking to your wife was a turning point in your relationship. Was it turning point for the better or worse?


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## Mittens

I could be totally wrong, but did his behavior come right around the same time as his loss of job?
My husband lost his job about 6 months ago, and I know he had withdrawn a lot in the beginning before we talked about it.
With him, it was because he felt inadequate as a provider and his 'manhood' was bruised so to speak. He was ashamed that I was/am the sole provider / bread winner, when he is the man and he had always had that as 'his job' to take care of me, so every time he saw me he felt tremendous guilt and anger with himself.
May be a totally different story with your hubby, but that was my experiences.


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## nice777guy

Mittens said:


> I could be totally wrong, but did his behavior come right around the same time as his loss of job?
> My husband lost his job about 6 months ago, and I know he had withdrawn a lot in the beginning before we talked about it.
> With him, it was because he felt inadequate as a provider and his 'manhood' was bruised so to speak. He was ashamed that I was/am the sole provider / bread winner, when he is the man and he had always had that as 'his job' to take care of me, so every time he saw me he felt tremendous guilt and anger with himself.
> May be a totally different story with your hubby, but that was my experiences.


:iagree: I still think this sounds like depression.


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## Mittens

You're absolutely correct, NG.
My husband is/was definitely depressed as well, but since him
realizing it has been working steadily to remedy it.
From a guy's perspective (not that I'm a guy, but from what I can gather / imagine) it's like a double whammy - losing the ability to take care of your family, and THEN realizing you're depressed about it and you've lost control not only of your family and ability to provide, but now you've lost control of your emotions and self.
It is a HUGE thing for men with job loss and something that can affect their entire and complete being.


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## notreadytoquit

Ok so let's say he is depressed.

Why would he say something like: "Things have not been going well between us for a long time". What is long time to him? He still would not tell me what it is that is wrong. Do depressed people say things like that without actually meaning it?


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## Mittens

When someone is depressed it can skew their sense of time and/or reality in general.
Ie. Time can be more kept as a "seems" means as opposed to realistic.
"We haven't had a good day in FOREVER", although it may have just been a rough week.
Also, without him saying anything specific, he could be essentially using the "things have not been going well line" because he either A) doesn't know he's depressed, (if he is) or B) knows but is too ashamed to admit it, so as an easier way uses your marriage as a scape goat, because then he doesn't have to face the fact he may feel like he is a failure as a provider and husband.
DISCLAIMER: Like I said before, I could be totally wrong - Frankly it's very hard from 1 conversation to say "yes, this is exactly what is wrong with someone I have never met before", but just my $0.02 on what the situation could be.


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## nice777guy

Yes - they say things like that all the time. I've been unlucky enough to have dealt with my wifes Depression years ago and her recent EAs. There are similarities - but it certainly doesn't sound like a MLC or an affair. 

Not everything they say is rational. They often can't give answers for their behavior because they don't understand why they do things or why they feel so bad. 

And you can't make them OK again through logic and reason, or even pleading, begging, threatening, etc. 

Do some research on depression. Suggest he see his primary care doc - who may prescribe meds, or should probably refer him to a Psych. 

Tell him how worried you are and ask him to do these things for you and your kid(s?) if not for himself.


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## CaliRN

Depression maybe? Men express different symptoms than women
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## notreadytoquit

I hope you are all correct and it turns out to be more like a depression rather than an affair. Even though most of the day he acts normally and interacts normally with other people. It's not like he is locked up in a room all day and not talk to anyone. Will let you know if he says tonight anything about the letter I left in his briefcase.


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## Mittens

Good luck NRTQ. 
I'll have my fingers crossed for you with lots of positive, good, constructive thoughts


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## notreadytoquit

Well last night he came from work acted normally as if nothing special is going on. I know he opened the letter because I sneaked into his laptop bag. He did not say anything last night, nothing this morning. But at least I feel somewhat better for expressing what was in my heart. In the mornings he will come to our bed(I usually have the baby by then with me in bed, otherwise baby sleeps in own room/crib), he will ask how our son was doing, never asks how I am doing. I really hope this does not last too long because I am getting exhausted physically and mentally.


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## notreadytoquit

Question to all of you who have dealt with depression of some sort with your spouse:

Can a person be still depressed if they interact normally with the rest of the world but somehow they are angry/depressed with you at the same time? My husband I think now is in the stage of "I don't care for you anymore" and I sometimes wonder if he even cares about our son.


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## Chris H.

Like the other posters, I agree that it sounds like depression. Have you guys spent much time alone since the baby? I know occasional "date nights" with my wife and our time alone does a lot for our relationship. When we had our first child, we focused more on the child than our relationship though.

Maybe having some date nights will help?


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## notreadytoquit

Chris H. said:


> Like the other posters, I agree that it sounds like depression. Have you guys spent much time alone since the baby? I know occasional "date nights" with my wife and our time alone does a lot for our relationship. When we had our first child, we focused more on the child than our relationship though.
> 
> Maybe having some date nights will help?


I can't even get him to talk to me about what is wrong let alone go on a date. We have been sleeping in separate bedrooms for two weeks now


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## nice777guy

I think its easier for us to put on a mask when dealing with the rest of the world.

But at home - your spouse often gets the best and the worst of you - if anyone sees the REAL you, its usually your spouse.

I'm not really sure how my wife was treating others when at her lowest - and to be honest (not trying to confuse) - I don't think she ever treated me in a mean or hateful way. But she did withdraw - especially from me and her family.

I'm starting to wonder if you shouldn't make an appointment for yourself to get some professional help. Someone who could help you make sense of what he's doing, and make sure you don't get hurt too much in the process.

Sorry you are going through this.


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## iWonder

I think there are a lot of things in your relationship that I believe is the common theme in many couples: it isn't fun anymore. I don't mean to be glib or unrealistic but when it all comes down to it, who do we date and eventually marry? The ones we have fun with. However, after we are married we become overtaken by the pressures of mortages, kids, jobs, etc.
If you look at your lives, you indicate he has lost a job, you don't speak s(o you are not enjoying being together), no sex, pressure of a child (you say parenting was more of a challenge than expected). To follow my analogy, if you went on this date, would you go again?
I think it is possible, but very difficult to recover from. The first step is to try to find any activity you can enjoy together - it is probably something active where the chatter is about the activity itself rather than the pressure of the conversation over a quiet dinner.
It is hard, but I think it is one of the keys to maintaining, or rebuilding, any relationship.


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## turnera

> In this case, cheating doesn't sound like one of them. From reading these posts, it seems like cheaters most times INCREASE sexual contat with their spouse to cover their tracks.


 Not necessarily. Have you checked his phone/text records and his Internet activity to see if he's talking to another woman?


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## notreadytoquit

I have checked his cell phones/email and nothing on them that I can see suspicious. He has a Blackberry but I don't know the password on it and that is the only thing I can't get into it. I have checked credit card statements/bank stantement and nothing unusual there. The way it is some days I want to think maybe it is an affair but some days I don't think it is. I have gone through every scenario in my head sofar and at this point I am getting sick and tired of the whole thing. I just want to know what it is regardless of the outcome. The problem is most of the day he acts normally. We laugh about things our son does, we talk about general stuff, everything except us.


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## turnera

Does he get on the Internet?


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## notreadytoquit

we both have our own laptops, from what I have seen so far it's only work related or sports related stuff he browses


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## nice777guy

Make an appointment for him to be evaluated for depression.

Once he's seen a professional, you will either have your answer (yes its depression) or you will have eliminated a major possibility (no, its not depression - must be something else).

Make the appointment FOR him. Tell him you love him and are very concerned and would like for him to go for you and the kids.


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## notreadytoquit

Well that's the difficult part. He is not a big fan of any kind of shrinks, counsellors etc. Last night I had a pretty rough night with the baby and I was exhausted from the previous night. This morning he comes to our bedroom where I was with the baby, and when I told him that I had a horrible night with the baby he did not say anything, just walked out of the room and left the house. He sleeps in the basement bedroom so he does not hear anything that goes on upstairs over night.

If he does call he only asks how our son is doing, does not even bother to ask how I am doing. At this point I am getting so sick and tired(both physically and mentally) that I just want to know what it is and move on from there, one way or the other.


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## nice777guy

He may not want to go, but you need to at least try to persuade him to go. I know it isn't the same thing, but I don't like to go to the dentist. I won't make the appointment on my own, but if my wife makes an appointment then I'll go.

If you can't get him to go, then make an appointment with yourself with a therapist. This will help you deal with whatever is going on.

Also, talking to a therapist for an hour about what's going on - in some detail - is going to get you a lot farther than posting here.

Posting here helps, but we are all a bunch of people with no professionl training (but a lot of experience) giving you advice based on a paragraph here and there.


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## f1r3f1y3

notreadytoquit said:


> I totally agree with you. After 8 years together, 5 married even if I was the most evil wife on the planet(and I was not) at least I would deserve an explanation. Last night I slipped a letter in his briefcase. It is a nice polite letter that basically says that I still love him, I care for him and for our marriage and that we need to sit down and see what is the big burden he is carrying. I also said that I have always valued our open channel of communication between us and that I appreciate what he does for us. No insults, no blaming for this or that. Since he lost his job he has been working from the office of a friend of ours, trying to find another job since it can get crazy at home with the child.
> 
> Just out of curiosity: You said talking to your wife was a turning point in your relationship. Was it turning point for the better or worse?


Sorry for the delay in replying. Definitely better as I finally felt like I got the truth. 

Some people just struggle so much to figure out what they feel and then express it in words. Therapy is supposed to help a lot with this if you can get him to go.

Funny you should mention about sending a letter, sometimes I feel like my wife and I communicate better over online chat/letters/texts than in person. We have time to think about our responses and make sure they are truthful and what we really want to say.

Possibly going to be met with some disapproval from some! But can you arrange a babysitter, get him to a meal and order some wine! A couple of drinks in a nice atmosphere away from the house might open him up.

All the best.


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## notreadytoquit

We are barely eating dinner at the table at home as it is. Few nights ago I suggested we watch a movie, he first said ok than he decided to go to the gym at 8pm so by the time he got back it was getting late anyways. He does go to the gym in the evenings and that is something he has been doing for a long time now. He has to do it because of some health issues.

Last night I actually asked him how long he planned to keep the separate room sleeping arrangements and all of a sudden he got all serious and almost mad and he said: " I don't know". I told him that after 8 years together at least I deserve to hear from him what it is that bothers him so much. He just said: "Lots is bothering me"

Then, he said that I should go to bed as our son might be walking up soon. I told him not to worry about it that I was getting used on being single mom taking care of the child day and night(which is true as some nights I may get only 3-4 hrs of sleep while he sleeps in the basement and does not hear anything). I told him that he does not even ask how I am doing. He just said he did not want to get into an argument and went to bed. 

So this morning when my son and I got up he came up and for the first time said: How ARE YOU Guys doing? Later I sent him a message to appologize for what I said last night because I thought maybe I was too harsh(I am one of those people that speaks her mind and does not hold anything) and he just replied(at least he replied this time) with a thank you. So we'll see how things go tonight. I am considering hiring a private detective agency just to rule out for sure the affair part. I know it will be expensive but I think peace of mind is more important. It's not something I want to do but if he keeps up this attitude and does not say anything I may have to do that.


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## turnera

Ask him tonight to write down 10 things you do that he doesn't like.

Then ask him to write down ten things that he needs or wants, to be happy.

Then go sit down tomorrow with the lists, and figure out how to stop making him unhappy and start meeting his needs. 

A marriage specialist with another forum who has 30 years of experience in this stuff says that a couple needs to spend 15 hours a week together - without the kids, not working on something, not watching tv or on the computer - just together. Walking, talking, eating out, playing a sport, doing a jigsaw puzzle...whatever, as long as it's time you spend together that makes you feel GOOD. Kind of like when you were dating. We NEED that stimulation to keep feeling good about each other.


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## notreadytoquit

turnera said:


> Ask him tonight to write down 10 things you do that he doesn't like.
> 
> Then ask him to write down ten things that he needs or wants, to be happy.
> 
> Then go sit down tomorrow with the lists, and figure out how to stop making him unhappy and start meeting his needs.
> 
> A marriage specialist with another forum who has 30 years of experience in this stuff says that a couple needs to spend 15 hours a week together - without the kids, not working on something, not watching tv or on the computer - just together. Walking, talking, eating out, playing a sport, doing a jigsaw puzzle...whatever, as long as it's time you spend together that makes you feel GOOD. Kind of like when you were dating. We NEED that stimulation to keep feeling good about each other.


I told him in the letter that we need to spend if nothing else 30 min at night just with each other no gadgets or a kid. As for your suggestion about writting things down I am all for it but he seems to want to talk about everything else except our marriage. He just gets so upset about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Well, then, YOU write it down as he tells you what he's feeling. You may have to prod him, but what else are you going to do? Just walk away?


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## nice777guy

If it is depression, these lists and other ideas won't help.

It isn't that you are doing things that make him unhappy. Its more that there is a chemical imbalance in his brain.

It isn't something to "sit down and discuss." If he had a broken arm, you wouldn't try to work through it at home. There are medical treatments for depression - I think that needs to be explored.

Ok - I'm done beating the dead horse. Good luck.


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## notreadytoquit

Nice777guy, I appreciate your input and the input of the other members of this forum. I have not ruled out the depression factor but I am trying slowly to remove one suspicion after another. And it is not easy doing that since I have a husband who would not talk at all about our marriage and a small child who occupies my day 24/7. The affair and the depression are on my list and I will go to investigate both as last resort. We have the same family doctor that I have to go an see anyways. I know the doctor won't discuss medical issues regarding another patient but at least I can ask him if his diabetic medication could be causing some symptoms of depression. From reading on the Internet it does not sound like but who knows.

He seems to be acting fine the rest of the time, telling me things about work, talking about sports(we both like sports), laughing about things our son does etc. Last night he insisted on doing the dishes and he even gave me a good night kiss(on the forehead)

Just today I found out that our insurance covers marriage counselling(about 12 sessions before we need further approval) so I am considering telling him about it. At least I know I made the effort if nothing else and he can see that I am not giving up on our marriage that easily.


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## nice777guy

Marriage counseling is a good idea.

I would be careful about the PI though - if he found out you did that - especially if he's innocent - it would seem like a major violation of his privacy. I've considered it myself doing it myself, but I don't think its worth the risk and would do more harm than good if discovered.


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## turnera

If a spouse is acting in unmarriagelike ways, you have the right to protect your marriage. Even if it means checking up on him/her. If a spouse IS having an affair, confronting the affair is the only way to get our spouse back. Affairs are addictions; they can't just walk away. Having a mother or father call you up and say 'what the h&ll do you think you're doing' is the wakeup call most affairees need to see through the fog of what they're addicted to.


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## notreadytoquit

How do I find a good marriage counsellor? I don't really know too many people around here. Would asking our family doctor be a good choice? Some people suggest seeing a pastor. Neither one of us is a church goer and if we do anything like counselling I want to do it with someone professional. 

The insurance company provides a list and it is a big one. But picking someone from the list is like looking up the yellow pages.

Checking up on him regarding an affair would be my absolute last resort. It's not something I really want to do but if that is the only way so be it.


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## notreadytoquit

So here are some new developments in my story. I would like to hear your thoughts on it.

My husband has a webmail account that I created for him years ago and I know the password and he knows that I can check it. 

Ever since he got laid off he has been trying to help some of the other laid of employees with some networking stuff and hopefully get them a new job soon. One of those employees is his former assistant. She is pretty, smart about the same age as I am. From what my husband has told me before, she is married to some weird guy and I am not sure how happy she actually is with him. Apparently her husband asked her if she felt like a failure when she lost her job. So sounds she has been confiding to my husband. She does not have any kids. 

So today I checked my husband's email and there I see a reply from her thanking him for the efforts he is doing to help her and the other two employees(two are female and one male). Towards the end of the email she wrote: "I hope things are better on the homefront. All is well here."

Now I don't know if he is having an affair or not with her but he would rather tell her what is bothering him than tell me?

So to sum it up:

1. He is acting weird since beginning/middle of December
2. He sleeps in a different bedroom since Jan 8
3. He would not tell me what is bothering him and gets angry if I ask
4. He does not wear his wedding band. Now on this one, he does have problems with swollen fingers and he is diabetic which sometimes causes aching in his fingers/toes, like nerve damage. He is also not wearing another one of his rings that he used to wear before.
4. I see this email from his assistant.

On the other hand, last night when he came back from the gym I had already fallen asleep with the light on. He came to the bedroom, gave me kiss on the forehead(which woke me up). He also came this morning before he left and did the same thing.

Do you think I should confront him on this or would I make it worse if I accuse him of an affair and it turns out it is not? Should I wait for more clues that may drop by accidentally?

My husband has not seen her email yet. I marked it as unread. I would be curious if he keeps it in his inbox or deletes it. I printed a copy for myself just in case.

I know where his assistant lives and I have her cell phone number as well.


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## nice777guy

I say you wait for more clues. That's not really much to confront with - "hope things are better."

Keep an eye on the account - be sure to check deleted mail and the "sent" folder each time.

I never found the smoking gun I was looking for with my wife's EAs, but I did get a better insight into what she was telling people about us, who she was talking to, and how often.

If you confront him now he might change the password or just find a new way to keep in touch with this person.

What REALLY puzzles me about your H is the sleeping in the other room part. It seems kind of minor - but I'm also not sure I've seen it anywhere else on this board. I don't get it. Has he ever told you why he's not sleeping in your bed?


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## notreadytoquit

The only thing he ever said was that he had lots on his mind and he needed to be alone. 

So I guess I would sit and wait for more clues. He has been using his Blackberry account extensively(he only uses the Blackberry for emails not as a phone/sms tool). He has a password on it that I dont' know what it is. He never used to have one in 7 years that he has had that device. The only time I noticed the password was over the holidays when our son accidentally grabbed the device and pressed some keys so the screen with the password section popped up.

Now there were some issues at his old work(IT guy spying on his emails and talking to other employees about confidential stuff) so I don't know if he put that password as protection from him or from me.


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## nice777guy

And he's never said he wants to end the marriage or that this has anything to do with you, right?

I struggle with passwords on phones too. I've never put a password on mine as I've never had anything to hide.

Any chance that he's sneaking out at night? Ever caught him on his blackberry when you thought he was sleeping?


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## notreadytoquit

nice777guy said:


> And he's never said he wants to end the marriage or that this has anything to do with you, right?
> 
> I struggle with passwords on phones too. I've never put a password on mine as I've never had anything to hide.
> 
> Any chance that he's sneaking out at night? Ever caught him on his blackberry when you thought he was sleeping?


He has never said that he wants to end the marriage. When I initially asked him what was wrong he said things have not been going well with us for a while now. Even though I never had any indications of that prior to December. We have not had any fights or misunderstandings like I said in my original post. He sleeps in a bedroom in the basement and I am on the second floor with the baby so I don't know if he is on his BB after he goes to the bedroom. I don't think he sneaks at night because our garage door is so loud you would hear it in another state.


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## turnera

Since you have a baby, have you made sure that he is getting enough time with you? A LOT of women replace their husbands with the kids, and the men pull away because of it.


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## notreadytoquit

If you are referring to sex, I have tried to initiate it few times. He would say something like he is tired. On several occasions I have expressed my concern that I did not want our marriage to suffer because of lack of sex and lack of spending time together as husband and wife.

I also mentioned to him in the letter I wrote to him last week that I miss being intimate with him. So I don't know how much more obvious I can be in telling him that I want to spend time with him. This was a man who never refused sex with me in the past(and vice versa).

I still cannot believe that he has been telling her things about us and never ever sat down with me to tell me what has been bothering him. I think this bothers me more than if he actually had/has an affair with her. He has a stress test scheduled for monday so I am not going to say anything at this point. See with me the trust issue is huge whether is spouse or friends. I don't know how I could trust him again.


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## turnera

No, I mean paying attention to him. Think back to when you were dating. THAT is how much attention you should be paying him. One of men's most common top needs is admiration. That is usually handled by you actually listening to him, asking him about his work, asking him for help, laughing at his jokes, asking to go places with him. Stuff like that. That's why it's recommended that spouses spend 15 hours a week together, aside from family requirements (kid care, meals, driving, etc.). You need to be finding ways to show him you WANT to be around him.


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## notreadytoquit

Oh trust me I have done all that before and after we had he child. This whole attitude of his almost appeared overnight and that is why I can't find explanation about it. He is a person that does not hold when something or someone is bothering him. He approaches the person and deals with it. He has done that with me and with friends and coworkers. I am like that too. So his silence and not being willing to tell me what is bothering him is really strange unless he has something to hide.

When I was pregnant, I was reading one of those books that prepares you for motherhood and there was a chapter there specifically for fathers/husbands. I made him read it and right in there it said how important it is that spouses find time for one another after the baby arrives.


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## nice777guy

Don't convict him of a crime he hasn't committed just yet in regards to the e-mail.

Could be this other woman has noticed the same things you have - asked how he was doing - and he casually said he was having some problems at home. All totally possible and innocent - but keep an eye on the e-mail account.

Maybe pay him a suprise visit in the middle of the night - tell him you couldn't sleep - could be a sexy visit, or just a checking in visit. I just really don't get the sleeping in the basement stuff.


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## notreadytoquit

nice777guy said:


> Don't convict him of a crime he hasn't committed just yet in regards to the e-mail.
> 
> Could be this other woman has noticed the same things you have - asked how he was doing - and he casually said he was having some problems at home. All totally possible and innocent - but keep an eye on the e-mail account.
> 
> Maybe pay him a suprise visit in the middle of the night - tell him you couldn't sleep - could be a sexy visit, or just a checking in visit. I just really don't get the sleeping in the basement stuff.


This morning he checked his email and of course her email was deleted, nothing in the sent, nothing in the trash folder. I am sure he probably sent her a message from his Blackberry to tell her not to send emails like that. I sent him an email yesterday to suggest we invite some friends over to watch the game, and of course he did not even bother to reply one way or other. I will tell him tonight about the marriage counselling and if he refuses that than I will seriously think about other more drastic options.


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## turnera

I would be installing a keylogger on his computer, printing out the phone/text records, and hiding a voice-activated recorder under the seat of his car. Get the proof. THEN take steps to stop the affair.


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## notreadytoquit

OMG I don't know how I am going to get through all this. I just wish I did not love him so much.


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## notreadytoquit

turnera said:


> I would be installing a keylogger on his computer, printing out the phone/text records, and hiding a voice-activated recorder under the seat of his car. Get the proof. THEN take steps to stop the affair.


Any good suggestions on keylogger software or voice activated recorders?

There should be a topic on this forum re these gadgets considering all the infidelity stories
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

The keylogger I used years ago was just a cheap $30 one I downloaded, and it worked fine. Everyone I know of who used VARs just got them from Radio Shack.


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## SafetyTool

I read all your posts and I feel like I am seeing my life in print. I have been there and felt that pain. My husband and I have been together 14 years total - 9 years before marriage and 5 years since. One day, a little over two years ago, he just started fighting with me and out those words came - "Our marriage hasn't been good for a while". That was news to me. I thought we were tight, we had sex on a regular basis, got along well, but bam there it was. He accused me of not loving him. Said I didn't show it. I didn't do his laundry. He didn't have a room of his own. on and on. I loved him, he was my soul mate, the one I was going to grow old with. When he was gone at work and would travel I would miss him so much it hurt. But he accused me of not loving him. He acted in this manner for about a year. I thought he had or was having an affair, that he had lost his mind, I was so hurt and confused. The sex between us went bad after that, it became like bad porn and got to where I didn't want to have sex with him. Then after a year of this he forgot my birthday. I thought he would remember but he forgot. On my birthday I said "today is my birthday". He absolutely blew up. Called me every name under the sun and accused me of trying to embarrass him because I hadn't told him it was my birthday. He said he was divorcing me and I said fine. I just said fine. I was tired. I was sick of wondering. The next day I was writing in my journal and I had this ah ha moment. I decided that if he wasn't going to love me then I would love me. I started a journey that day towards health and happiness and haven't looked back. I went to weight watchers, I joined a gym, I hired a hot trainer, I took up pilates, I made new friends, I decided to travel by myself and leave him home. Guess what, when I turned 50 I was the healthiest I have been in 20 years - both physically and mentally. I am still married because I am not ready to walk that final line but I am my own woman. The hubby is nice to me all of a sudden now that he realizes that I don't need him. Don't know if I will ever look at him the same way that I used to look at him, I know that I certainly don't need him anymore. I'd like to think that I can salvage 14 years of being together but I know if I can't that I'll be fine. I still don't know what made him do what he did but at this point I don't care. I put his problems back on him and I won't take the blame anymore. They are his problems and not mine. Do something for yourself and your child - get healthy, get independent, don't allow his BS to bring you down.. it is his BS and not yours. If that doesn't work and you get to the point that you are ready to throw in the towel at least you know you can.


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## notreadytoquit

SafetyTool said:


> I read all your posts and I feel like I am seeing my life in print. I have been there and felt that pain. My husband and I have been together 14 years total - 9 years before marriage and 5 years since. One day, a little over two years ago, he just started fighting with me and out those words came - "Our marriage hasn't been good for a while". That was news to me. I thought we were tight, we had sex on a regular basis, got along well, but bam there it was. He accused me of not loving him. Said I didn't show it. I didn't do his laundry. He didn't have a room of his own. on and on. I loved him, he was my soul mate, the one I was going to grow old with. When he was gone at work and would travel I would miss him so much it hurt. But he accused me of not loving him. He acted in this manner for about a year. I thought he had or was having an affair, that he had lost his mind, I was so hurt and confused. The sex between us went bad after that, it became like bad porn and got to where I didn't want to have sex with him. Then after a year of this he forgot my birthday. I thought he would remember but he forgot. On my birthday I said "today is my birthday". He absolutely blew up. Called me every name under the sun and accused me of trying to embarrass him because I hadn't told him it was my birthday. He said he was divorcing me and I said fine. I just said fine. I was tired. I was sick of wondering. The next day I was writing in my journal and I had this ah ha moment. I decided that if he wasn't going to love me then I would love me. I started a journey that day towards health and happiness and haven't looked back. I went to weight watchers, I joined a gym, I hired a hot trainer, I took up pilates, I made new friends, I decided to travel by myself and leave him home. Guess what, when I turned 50 I was the healthiest I have been in 20 years - both physically and mentally. I am still married because I am not ready to walk that final line but I am my own woman. The hubby is nice to me all of a sudden now that he realizes that I don't need him. Don't know if I will ever look at him the same way that I used to look at him, I know that I certainly don't need him anymore. I'd like to think that I can salvage 14 years of being together but I know if I can't that I'll be fine. I still don't know what made him do what he did but at this point I don't care. I put his problems back on him and I won't take the blame anymore. They are his problems and not mine. Do something for yourself and your child - get healthy, get independent, don't allow his BS to bring you down.. it is his BS and not yours. If that doesn't work and you get to the point that you are ready to throw in the towel at least you know you can.


I don't know what to think anymore. Other than the words "Things have not been going well between us for a while" he has not said anything else. He has not said that he does not love me, he would sometimes give me a kiss on the cheek before going to bed(in the other bedroom), he may do that in the morning before going to the office. This am I got an email from him suggesting a meal for tomorrow night. Since he is better at preparing that particular dish than I am I asked him if he would make it. He said yes so I said ok I will make sure we have all the ingredients. Last night he talked to me about work and few other things acted normal. He has not tried to pick up a fight or anything like that.

As I said at this point I don't know what to say/think. If he comes at say I am having/had an affair I won't be surprised. Maybe it is something totally different but with his attitude every possible scenario has gone through my head. I wanted to suggest counselling but in order to pick the right counsellor I would need to know at least a little bit what is bothering him. I was going to try to talk to him again tonight and see what he says. I have not told anyone about our situation(other than this forum). I am still debating if I should talk to some of his friends that also know me well and see if he has said something to them.

I really don't want to go to the route of spying on him(computer/car etc) but if he leaves me no other choice I may do that.


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## turnera

What are you doing to ensure HE is happy?


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## notreadytoquit

Well I still do things I did when things were great between us. I take care of the child, household, cook, clean, do laundry. I have told him that I love him, that I care about him and appreciate what he does for us. I have told him that I support him in his career choices and I have told him how important it is to me to have a happy family life(even more important than my own career) Yes I would like to hug him, kiss him but he does not even seems to like to sit on the same couch with me. Then, on the other hand I would feel like a total fool if I do all these things and then I found out he has been having an affair behind my back. 

I don't pick up any fights with him even though some days I am so exhausted that I think I will blow up at anyone. He has not asked do I need help with something around the house. Unless I ask him to do something for me he does not really offer. Once in a while he will call on his way home to see if I need something from the store.

I know nobody is perfect and neither am I. Maybe there is something that I do or say that he does not like. But this is a guy who has no problem speaking his mind to anyone(including me) except now and I don't know how to fix something if I don't know what is broken.


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## nice777guy

one little thing - don't let a concern that you might not get the right counselor stop you from trying. assume its generalized depression, or classic marriage "issues" and just pick someone


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## turnera

Go to marriagebuilders.com and print out the Love Buster questionnaire. Ask him to fill it out. It will tell you what you do that makes him unhappy. With that knowledge, you will know what to change so that he is happier with you. Once you have eliminated these LBs, print out the Emotional Needs questionnaire and ask him to fill it out. It will tell you what his top 5 ENs are. You need to be meeting those top 5 ENs, or he won't feel like reciprocating. What you are currently doing is fine, but what if what you do is NOT what his top ENs are? That's like, if his top ENs don't include domestic support, you can clean til the cows come home, and it won't even register with him; however, if one of his top 5 ENs is recreation (common for men), and you refuse to go biking or play tennis or whatever he likes, and you instead keep a spotless house, can you see how he is still unhappy?


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## SafetyTool

_What are you doing to ensure HE is happy? _


It isn't your job to ensure he is happy. The same question can be asked - what does he do to make you happy? The answer is that noone can make anyone else happy. Happiness comes from inside and if he isn't happy he needs to figure out a way to make himself happy. You need to figure out how to make you happy because that is something you can do. If you are forever depending on someone else to make your happiness you are going to be sorely disappointed in life.


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## turnera

The point is, you have an obligation (if you want your marriage to survive) to not be self-absorbed and to care about meeting your spouse's needs. If you sit around and wait for your spouse to be what YOU want him/her to be, he/she will end up doing the same thing.


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## notreadytoquit

turnera said:


> The point is, you have an obligation (if you want your marriage to survive) to not be self-absorbed and to care about meeting your spouse's needs. If you sit around and wait for your spouse to be what YOU want him/her to be, he/she will end up doing the same thing.


This all sounds good but as long as both spouses abide to it.


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## turnera

But you can't expect your spouse to do it, if you won't.

If you DO follow that path, try for a while to put your spouse first, and _really_ make sure you're not Love Busting and you are meeting all their top needs, and they don't respond, then you'll know what you're dealing with. But chances are, they are just as unhappy as you are, and if you take the first step, they will reciprocate.


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## notreadytoquit

Two nights ago I told him that I have checked with our insurance company and they cover marriage counselling. He said we'll talk about it in the morning. He never brought up the subject again so this morning I sent him the link with a list of all counsellors in a 50mi radius to us(there are 15 pages of them). I told him what they cover and how they cover it. I told him that with his silence he is putting me through huge emotional pain and whatever it is that he is not revealing, it cannot hurt more than what I am hurting right now. I also told him that I still think we need to sit down and discuss what the problem is.
I finished the email by saying that all I want is my husband and my marriage back.

Love
xxxxx
He has been ok the last few days, laughing about other things, talking. So we'll see what he says if he says anything. If none of this works then I will have to take some more drastic measures that I really don't want to do unless I have to.


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## nice777guy

Make the appointment - just pick one - and tell him when and where. I think it will do you some good, even if he doesn't show up.


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## notreadytoquit

This morning I got an email from him out of the blue. He actually responded to my email with the list of counsellors that I sent to him few days ago.

He said in his email that he has looked at the name that are on the list and some that are not on the list and that we will talk about that this weekend. So hopefully this is a good sign if he is willing to talk and look at the counselling.

He than said something about some job opportunity. 

I told him that I look forward to the conversation. I repeated that we have never had any major misunderstandings in all these years and when we did we were always able to sort them out by talking. I told him that even though I may seem that I am angry, I have never stopped loving him. I also said that whatever he decided job wise that my son and I will support him 100% and that with his abilities he won't be unemployed for very long time(which is true because he is very well respected in his industry).

So I think I am saying/doing the right things here?


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## nice777guy

Sounds like progress to me! Here's hoping he'll actually open up if you get him to therapy.

He's got to start talking sometime, right?


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## notreadytoquit

notreadytoquit said:


> This morning I got an email from him out of the blue. He actually responded to my email with the list of counsellors that I sent to him few days ago.
> 
> He said in his email that he has looked at the name that are on the list and some that are not on the list and that we will talk about that this weekend. So hopefully this is a good sign if he is willing to talk and look at the counselling.
> 
> He than said something about some job opportunity.
> 
> I told him that I look forward to the conversation. I repeated that we have never had any major misunderstandings in all these years and when we did we were always able to sort them out by talking. I told him that even though I may seem that I am angry, I have never stopped loving him. I also said that whatever he decided job wise that my son and I will support him 100% and that with his abilities he won't be unemployed for very long time(which is true because he is very well respected in his industry).
> 
> So I think I am saying/doing the right things here?


Well the weekend came and went by and still no sign of the supposed conversation that we were going to have. And he had more than enough opportunities to initiate the conversation. I don't know if I should say something or let him come to me to talk. 

When will this nightmare end?:scratchhead:


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## nice777guy

Weekend isn't over yet - remind him.


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## notreadytoquit

Except he left at 5pm to play his favorite sport(he does this every Sun pm but I can't trust him anymore) and he probably won't be back until 11pm at which time I am really not up in the mood to hear stories from him.


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## notreadytoquit

So this morning, after he left for the office, I find two Valentine's cards on the dinning room table. One is to our 14 month old son from both of us and the other one is from my son to me(obviously written by my husband). Neither one of us has been a huge believer in V-Day. We always thought we'd rather show each other the love every other in the year than just that one day. So what the heck is this supposed to mean?

I sent him a quick email thanking him for the cards and I reminded him that we were supposed to talk about us and the future of our marriage this weekend.

I don't know what sort of mind games are these but this is not typical of the husband I married.


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## larniegrl

Make an appointment with a counselor...give him the date/time in advance and then just go. Even if he doesn't show...it will help you talk to someone. Start working on yourself, making yourself into the best version of YOU possible. 

You cannot change him or his behavior, to continue to worry about it will only hurt you further. He is a grown man, and he needs communicate like an adult with his wife.


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## notreadytoquit

So here is the scoop after we had our talk and tears this evening.

He says he has started feeling disconnected few years ago. He thought having a child might have changed things for him but it did not. He says he cares about me and the child he would not do stupid things that people go through in separations and divorces. He wants to try counselling but neither one of us wants to be in a marriage just for the sake of the child only. I guess everything culminated for him around December(his diabetes, his job problems and this). He sounded sincere in all this and started crying, actually both of us started crying. I guess he has been doing secret crying just as I have. I told him that I still love him and that I still care about him.

I really don't know what to do. I don't know how counselling can help here when one spouse feels so disconnected. What should we be looking at a counsellor for situations like this.

I told him that I wish he had come to me earlier with a conversation like this.

I did not mention anything about me thinking of him having an affair and did not ask anything about the password on his Blackberry, the account he opened(which I saw because it was in the same bank) and did not tell me about.

Any suggestions are welcomed at this point. It's going to be a very long night for me. He has to go tomorrow and Thursday for some meetings in NYC but he will be home on Wednesday and Friday.

Could this all be a BS story to cover up an affair of any kind? If it is he certainly put an Oscar worthy performance. I have read in few other places that this is a pretty common scenario.
We are originally from Canada but we moved to the US for his job(yes I left my career for his and he says he feels awful about it), I am afraid that if I move back with my son, this marriage would definetly end up in a divorce. He also says he wants to take care of my son and me(as in financial care)


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## turnera

Go to marriagebuilders.com and look up the phone counseling. I have seen real miracles occur in couples who counseled with the doctor who created the website, and his daughter, who also counsels. They don't waste time on personal issues or all that crap. They just see what's wrong in the marriage, and give you set steps to take to fix it.


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## notreadytoquit

Any more thoughts on this? I edited and added some more info in my last post at the bottom. I feel horrible today. I can't even look at my wedding rings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## notreadytoquit

Ok so last night we had another conversation so I can try to better understand the whole situation. Basically it boils down to the following:

1.	My negative attitude
He says my negative attitude started before we even moved from Canada to the US. He spent the entire 2007 travelling back and forth every week while I was trying to sell the house. I did not move to the US until Dec 2007. 3 months later I found out I was pregnant. I found the whole move more difficult than I previously thought. The people where we live are not the easiest to befriend even though I am an outgoing person who usually is not negative. He met a lot of his friends through work or through tennis. His work visa in the US does not allow the spouse to work and I knew that ahead of time. I also played tennis at the beginning but because of the pregnancy I could not continue to do so. After the baby was born, in the middle of the winter I was basically at home for 3 months going crazy. Family would occasionally come from Canada to help but that was usually for a week or two. I am not trying to find excuses for my negative attitude but just trying to see how I came to be in this situation.

I don’t want to be labeled by anyone as a negative person and certainly not by my husband. I want to work on myself, to try better to make some friends, go out with the baby more. I also asked him if he would help me in trying to see if I can finish my Bachelor Degree at a local university where one of his friends is in a pretty high position. I told him that all I wanted is to see how many more classes I would need to take to complete the degree and that would also give me a chance to get out of the house, meet more adults (I can’t really talk to Dora and Diego on Nick Jr. all day). He knows I am ambitious and hardworking.

2. I asked him what he expected from counseling.
He agreed that we do counseling. He does not know what to expect. He said he would try couple of sessions and see how it goes from there. I told him that I would like to continue with the counseling(if I find It helps me) even if he does not want. He said he would watch our son if I had to do that. I also asked him how set he was on divorce. He said he is not completely set on that but HE DOES NOT WANT TO FIND HIMSELF A YEAR OR TWO DOWN THE ROAD IN THE SAME SITUATION. He says he is emotionally exhausted from the whole thing and that he dreaded coming home only to hear me ***** about things. That is why he was trying to drown himself in work so much. I admit that I did ***** sometimes and maybe did not even realize I was hurting the people around me with that.
He says that he still cares about me. He did not say the “love” word though

3. Something I said about his health few months ago. 
Without going into too many details, few months ago I said something that has hurt him a lot and I now realize it was wrong for me to do that. I told him that I was truly sorry about that and I really am. I do care about him and his health and I want him to be around for our son.



4. I asked him about another person in his life
He said there is no one and he sounded pretty sincere. However, I will keep an eye on that situation.

5. He regrets for not talking to me sooner about this whole situation. He admitted to this himself and I repeated to him that I always thought we had open communication between us.

6. I asked him about the password on his Blackberry. He said he had put it few months ago and that the Blackberry (which he uses mostly for work) was his private thing. He said just because we are married does not mean he cannot have some privacy. I asked him if he has nothing to hide to show me the device. He refused. I did not want to push him any further because he was getting upset about the entire conversation so I left it at that.

So where do I go from here? I don’t want to lose my husband, I am willing to work on myself, but then if he tries to minimize the time around the house, how is he going to see if I have changed? Do I continue to tell him that I love him (which I do)? I still do regular household chores, watch the child, and many other things that he cannot do because he is busy with work. Do I continue to put up with him sleeping in a different bedroom? Since he gets upset talking about these issues should I try to put all this in writing to him? I would like us to spend some time together but how do I do that when he hates me right now so much?


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## turnera

I'm sorry. I can't get past the Blackberry. He is at the very LEAST confiding with another person about you and he doesn't want you to see what he says. Move it up a notch, and it's a woman and he's afraid you'll use that against him. Another notch, he has feelings for her. Another notch, they're in love. Another notch, they're in a physical affair. 

None of those options work.

If you're not willing to snoop on him, you may as well just divorce. If you do snoop, and find the other woman, you can fight to stop the affair, and you have a decent chance of getting your husband back. Right now, he most likely has another woman who IS giving him what he wants/needs right now, so he has no interest in going back to you. Exposing the affair can stop that draining of your marriage.


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## notreadytoquit

Well I am going to do the keylogger/GPS thing but I am not sure how much I can find if I cannot get into his Blackberry.


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## turnera

I would be hiring a PI.


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## nice777guy

Go back to school. Or at least look into it.

Make the counseling appointment.

See if there is a reasonable or easy way to get his online billing information related to his Blackberry. His account number is probably just his phone number. And - if he's like so many of us - he probably has one or two favorite passwords he uses for everything. Or - can you tell him that you think you need a phone too? Then you would probably be on a plan with shared usage, which might open up some more detail to you.

I got all I needed to know initially by just seeing my wife's usage detail after logging onto our A&T account just to verify that our first bill was correct.


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## notreadytoquit

We both have AT&T accounts(cell phones) but they are not shared. His BB is with a canadian provider. I have access to the account but you cannot tell who he sent an email to. He only uses the BB for emails not for calls/texts.


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## turnera

How do you know that?


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## notreadytoquit

Because I can see the details on the Blackberry account. If there are any calls or text the number would on the bill. But emails addresses don't show up. I check and get my Att bill online and it is not connected to his ATT Phone that he got recently.


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## nice777guy

Even if your phones aren't connected, you might be able to set up "online billing" on his behalf for his new AT&T phone - sure would be nice of you! If he hasn't registered, it might be fairly easy for you to use his phone number and - if he hasn't already - create a new account "for him."

Its been a while since I set mine up. It was actually in my wife's name - I'm pretty sure all I really needed was her SSN. If you have that - you might be able to log on and see what he's up to.

Or - even if he's already set something up - give the password a couple of tries. My wife and I used to always have 2 or 3 passwords that we used for common accounts. If you try 3 times in a row it may lock you out - which might raise suspicions on his part. But you could always try again next week.


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## notreadytoquit

Ok so here is an update to my original post.

I went to see a counsellor yesterday by myself. He is going on Sat and then I will go again next week. I basically spent the whole hour talking. The counsellor did not see anything that I may be doing wrong but obviously she has to hear his story, whatever he decides to share. Over all, I felt better after the session.

In the meantime, he received his ATT bill from his new phone. Since I get the mail I opened it slowly and nothing on this bill that seems suspicious. Most of the phone calls were to his ex or current male colleagues. No txt msg on this bill. 

Also few days ago on his laptop I noticed he had scanned two tickets in his name to a home show. Before I even saw that I saw myself an ad about that same show in a design magazine. When he came home that night he saw the magazine and I asked him if he wanted to go to the show which was over a weekend in March. He said no. 

Next week I am getting the keylogger I ordered and a GPS tracker so will have more info. Tonight he said he is going out with his buddies after leaving the office, not even bothering to come home first. These are buddies from his tennis. I only know two of these guys(not that well) and they are married with kids so I am sure they don't hang out in bars during the week.

His usual match that is played on Sun evening is now on Sun at noon. I saw the schedule at our club. However, he is now telling me that he has tennis Sun pm(which I am almost 100% sure it is a lie).

I also suggest we do something as family on Sun pm but of course he gave tennis as excuse. 

The counsellor obviously cannot tell me what he is going to tell her but I don't think he will tell everything.

I was also reading more on midlife crisis in men and his entire behaviour fits everything I read. Normally, MLC has many characteristics some more obvious than others. If that is what it is, I don't know how he is going to get out of it. My only concern is that if it came to divorce he will blame me for everything and I don't really want to be portrayed like that to his family and our mutual friends. 

Is there anything I can do about that?

Right now I am not even sure that I feel anything anymore for him. He still acts totally not interested what is going on at home and I have no desire to do anything either at home or outside. However, I do get out of the house with my son and take him to whatever activities are available for his age. I am still debating whether to talk to some of his friends to see if he had said anything to them. This whole excuse about us drifting apart for the last 3 years(with no obvious indication to me) just does not add up.

I was also thinking about going back to Canada with my son but I am not sure how a separation like that can do any good in this situation. From one end, I want to help him deal with whatever it is but on the other hand, I also want to live a normal life. I only have one life to live too.


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## turnera

Sorry to hear this. Bottom line, you just have to know the truth before you can move forward. Someone here asked a friend to follow his wife, and got the truth he needed. Maybe you can do that, too.


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## Sunshine1997

You definately need some answers! Try CELL PHONE SPY - TRACK LOCATE MOBILE CELL PHONE LOCATION. I believe it will track his blackberry and you don't need access to his phone to download anything in order to track it. 

I'm with Turnera on this - he needs to be followed so you can get the answers you need so that you can move on. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nice777guy

Sunshine - have you tried the link you posted above? Just curious - I'm always weary of internet products like this.


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## Sunshine1997

No I haven't tried this, but there is another post around here somewhere where the poster had tried this and had good results as far as getting info. Not sure if this site can track/record emails that are rec'd or sent but IF he is cheating my guess would be he is doing more than just emailing..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## notreadytoquit

I contacted them and it does not work with his new phone and it will not work on the Blackberry because you have to download the software. They have online chat person you can ask questions. Best bet is to give them the exact model of the phone.


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## notreadytoquit

Is there anything I can do about him being so resentful towards me? He acts like I have killed someone.


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## turnera

You're spinning your wheels until you find out if he is cheating. Nothing you do matters, if he is, because he will spin the whole thing to be your fault, so he can live with his guilt. Unless you stop the affair, you are going to look more and more pathetic by trying to 'patch' things up with him, when all along, all he thinks about every day is getting to see HER.


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## Sunshine1997

Bummer about the cell phone spy! 

I agree - you're just spinning your wheels until you know if he is cheating or not. Just back off from him, try not to react to his nasty attitude towards you and get the keylogger installed. Your getting a GPS too? That's good. 

During this difficult time, try and remember to take care of yourself. Make him stay home and watch the baby while you go out - whether it be to the mall and buy yourself a new outfit or to the bookstore and read. Have you read the book called The Four Agreements? It is excellent and so is Dr. Wayne Dyer's Staying on the Path. They are both short reads and will help you put things into perspective. They are not books about marriage but about life and how you cannot control other people's behavior only yours and your actions.

What did the therapist have to say about his behavior?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Bob, the point is that, if he IS having an affair, he will hear NOTHING she says and will see NOTHING she does to repair the marriage, because his every thought is on the next time he can contact the other woman. Who has to be removed from the picture so he can go through withdrawal, for the fog to clear, and realize yes, here's his wife, who has put up with it all and is still here.

But that will never happen until the OW is gone. So she needs to know one way or another if there IS another woman. If not, great, there are TONS of things she can do to get him back. But if he IS having an affair, she has to deal with the affair first and stop it.


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## notreadytoquit

Ok so let's assume there is NO affair. How can I improve myself and show that to him when he is barely at the house and tries to avoid me? 

I mean we don't even sleep in the same bed for almost two months and he does not seem too thrilled about the idea of therapy. His first session is on Sat. He goes to an office(working on some project and looking for work at the same time) comes home, eats dinner, plays with our son for an hour, goes to the gym in the evening, comes home and then goes to bed.


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## nice777guy

I think you need to learn to detach - find some peace.

I'm not so sure you'll be able to catch him - "if" he's even doing anything.

So - instead of driving yourself crazy, just do what you would do if he wasn't even there.

I think its Ok to do nothing right now. Do what you need to do and what you want to do. No need to prove anything to him. If you work on "you" - do it for yourself, not for him.


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## turnera

You find out what HE is thinking. What makes him angry or upset - and avoid doing all of those things like the plague; NEVER be what he thinks of when he thinks of unpleasantness. It could be anything from leaving the porch light on to drying out the chicken to buying $100 shoes to having an annoying laugh. If you want him to want to be around you, you have to learn what HE wants.

And find out what makes him happy. Banana split? Clean sheets? Extra starch in his shirts? A wife who grows bigger flowers than all the neighbors? It could be anything! But you HAVE to find out. Because if you want him to WANT to come home to you, it will have to be because he is HAPPY when he's around you. We avoid that which makes us unhappy, and are drawn to that which gives us pleasure. 

But only HE knows what those things are, at this point.

Have you looked at the questionnaires at marriagebuilders.com yet? Love Buster (what he doesn't like) and Emotional Needs (what makes him happy)? Figure out how to get those filled out.


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## notreadytoquit

turnera said:


> You find out what HE is thinking. What makes him angry or upset - and avoid doing all of those things like the plague; NEVER be what he thinks of when he thinks of unpleasantness. It could be anything from leaving the porch light on to drying out the chicken to buying $100 shoes to having an annoying laugh. If you want him to want to be around you, you have to learn what HE wants.
> 
> And find out what makes him happy. Banana split? Clean sheets? Extra starch in his shirts? A wife who grows bigger flowers than all the neighbors? It could be anything! But you HAVE to find out. Because if you want him to WANT to come home to you, it will have to be because he is HAPPY when he's around you. We avoid that which makes us unhappy, and are drawn to that which gives us pleasure.
> 
> But only HE knows what those things are, at this point.
> 
> Have you looked at the questionnaires at marriagebuilders.com yet? Love Buster (what he doesn't like) and Emotional Needs (what makes him happy)? Figure out how to get those filled out.


So in the conversation that we had couple weeks ago he said that I have been feeling miserable and with negative attitude and that has been emotionally exhausting for him. Ok so I admit I might have been negative but not as bad as he is describing it. He says this started before we even moved to the US. But he was not going to leave me when I got pregnant and thought with the baby things would improve. Even though he has never given any indication of this being a problem for him. In the mean time in the last 2.5 years I went through adjusting of not working(not allowed to work in the US because his work visa does not allow the spouse to work), got pregnant and had a baby that is now 15 months. No family to help nearby, friends are not easy to make where I am(even the counsellor said that people in the state are not the friendliest bunch and she is from here).

So what I told him few days after that that I did not liked to be labeled negative and that I will even go as far as getting my hormones checked just to make sure I am ok on that plan. I also had a underperforming thyroid(condition I did not find out until Oct 2009) which now got better and I just found out that it can cause depression like symptoms. So I am being proactive on my end I think. I still do everything at home that I did before plus taking care of the child.


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## turnera

One issue is NOT the sum of him. You really need to print out those questionnaires, so you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about - if he were to fill them out (push really hard for it), you'll find a good 10-20-30 things that you do that he doesn't like. And you'll find at least 5-10 Emotional Needs that he has, that YOU should be meeting.

Yes, it's a lot of hard work. But do you want to be married, or not? The biggest benefit - assuming no affair, which negates everything you do - is that, once you start making HIM happy, he'll be so glad to be around you that he'll want to make YOU happy. Just like when you were dating.

I need to point out something, though:


> but not as bad as he is describing it


This is called a Disrespectful Judgment. It is YOU saying what HE is allowed to feel. Yes, but. No, there IS no but. If he feels bad from your negativity, it is bad enough to matter. If you spend all your time making excuses for how much you are NOT at fault, or 'not that bad,' well, what good does that do your marriage? He feels what he feels - although if he's having an affair, those feelings are warped, thus the reason you have to find out - and what he feels is _what matters._


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## nice777guy

This situation is a lot like mine.

A spouse convinces his or herself that they are unhappy - maybe never have been. They begin doing things out of character and don't begin discussing "the marriage" until THEY'VE done some damage.

Maybe there were signs, but I'm not convinced. I certainly don't remember any kind of conversation requesting me to fill out a LoveBusters questionnaire, a request for marriage counseling, or even a "We need to work on some things." Instead, it was up to me to stumble upon a phone bill with 900 texts to a number I didn't know. Or in this case, him sleeping in another room for months before finally giving any kind of reasonable explanation.

And yet WE are supposed to be finding out what they want - what would make them feel better. Maybe WE need to stop and reasses what type of person our spouse has become before we start trying to make them happy. I don't think my wife even KNOWS what she wants - truly - so how would I give her something she can't even define.

And it drives me crazy that so often - within the same thread - people are advised to install keyloggers or request polygraphs - but also make yourself more attractive? It seems all of the advice is so extreme and so action driven. Action can be hard when you've just been unexpectedly punched in the gut. And, until you know the lay of the land and have thought things through, don't take action just for the sake of doing something.

"Maybe" I've changed. "Maybe" you - notready - have changed. But they - our spouses - have definitely changed.

My wife agreed to marry ME. The version of her that I agreed to marry is gone, and I'm not convinced that I want to stay married to this new person who is inhabiting her body. My wife suddenly developed the ability to look me in the eyes and tell lie after lie. That is NOT who I married.

So - notready - do what you feel like doing. You will know when its enough. Be yourself - and try to be a better version of yourself if it makes you happy. Don't go crazy wondering what you need to work on. He has damaged the marriage and created this distance. Give it time - give him space - and use that space to think about what YOU want.


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## notreadytoquit

turnera said:


> One issue is NOT the sum of him. You really need to print out those questionnaires, so you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about - if he were to fill them out (push really hard for it), you'll find a good 10-20-30 things that you do that he doesn't like. And you'll find at least 5-10 Emotional Needs that he has, that YOU should be meeting.
> 
> Yes, it's a lot of hard work. But do you want to be married, or not? The biggest benefit - assuming no affair, which negates everything you do - is that, once you start making HIM happy, he'll be so glad to be around you that he'll want to make YOU happy. Just like when you were dating.
> 
> I need to point out something, though:
> This is called a Disrespectful Judgment. It is YOU saying what HE is allowed to feel. Yes, but. No, there IS no but. If he feels bad from your negativity, it is bad enough to matter. If you spend all your time making excuses for how much you are NOT at fault, or 'not that bad,' well, what good does that do your marriage? He feels what he feels - although if he's having an affair, those feelings are warped, thus the reason you have to find out - and what he feels is _what matters._


Turnera, I took a quick look at the questions. Are they the same for both men and women? Maybe I missed somewhere where there is a difference between the two? After all, men and women are not the same spiecies.

I will see how my next session goes with the therapist after she has seen him. I think for now I will do little bit of of both types of advice I am getting here(turnera and nice777guy). I will use the keylogger but not obsess myself every minute of the day but at the same time try to be happy myself and get myself into more positive thoughts, yet at the same time show him respect and that I care about as much as the opportunity allows for that. Yes I still do things around the house, try to take our son to activities during the day(even though he does not really ask how our day was). This was a guy who used to call twice a day from work to see how we were doing. Some days now he does not even call at all.

And for the emotional needs, I have already made up a list of things I like to see in a marriage from my spouse and things that may bother me.


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## nice777guy

notreadytoquit said:


> I will use the keylogger but not obsess myself every minute of the day


Once you install that keylogger, its going to be very hard to keep from looking at it. 

If the keylogger doesn't give you proof, it may just make your life worse by giving you more questions than answers. 

That's how I've been with our phone bill at times. It hasn't proved anything really - but its given my imagination a lot of things to go overboard with. And it can be hard to stop looking, even when there's nothing really there.


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## turnera

nice777guy said:


> Once you install that keylogger, its going to be very hard to keep from looking at it.
> 
> If the keylogger doesn't give you proof, it may just make your life worse by giving you more questions than answers.
> 
> That's how I've been with our phone bill at times. It hasn't proved anything really - but its given my imagination a lot of things to go overboard with. And it can be hard to stop looking, even when there's nothing really there.


A keylogger is a temporary thing. You set it up, you observe, and if you find nothing, you remove it. That simple. 

If you DO find something, you keep it on there long enough to print out the proof - and then you confront the WS with the proof. It's just a tool to get to a place where you can take action.

Like I keep saying, if there is nothing going on, great! Remove it and change tactics. But if there IS - and cheating is WAY more rampant today than we want to believe, thanks to technology - then you have to cut off the source of the addiction before the WS will even notice you're in the same room. As long as there's an affair going on, the ONLY thing that consumes their mind is getting more 'fix', keeping you from _knowing_ about the fix, and covering up the fix if you suspect. So they can keep it coming. It literally consumes people's minds.


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## turnera

> And it drives me crazy that so often - within the same thread - people are advised to install keyloggers or request polygraphs - but also make yourself more attractive? It seems all of the advice is so extreme and so action driven. Action can be hard when you've just been unexpectedly punched in the gut. And, until you know the lay of the land and have thought things through, don't take action just for the sake of doing something.


Action is necessary, because the other spouse is perfectly happy with the status quo. It is YOU who is hurting, so it will have to be YOU who changes things. Also, just taking action will give you a HUGE boost to your peace of mind. Go to marriagebuilders and read some of the threads in infidelity from people who exposed their spouse's affair, to see what I mean. Most of these people fought and fought and fought, to keep from exposing: he'll be mad; she'll leave me for sure; everyone will hate me, yada yada. But once they did expose it, the sense of hopelessness left them, they felt empowered for having done something.

But exposure is the single most important thing you can do to an affair because it is, by its very nature, secretive. If it wasn't, the WS would just leave the BS and move in with the OM/OW. They HAVE to keep it a secret. And half of the appeal of the affair is the high you get from sneaking; the other half is that your spouse is still meeting half of your needs (the boring ones), while the OM/OW is meeting the other half (exciting ones) - they don't WANT to get all their needs met by the OM/OW; deep down, they know that person isn't marriage material, that's what the spouse is for.

So exposing it to the people who mean the most to your spouse - and to the OM/OW's spouse - gives the affair a kick in the face. They can no longer live in this fantasy. They can't pretend that they can kick out their spouse and invite OM/OW over for Thanksgiving - now that the family knows he/she broke up part of the family, they won't be welcome. REALITY comes crashing down. And often, the OM/OW will walk away cos the affair is now too much work or has too many consequences.

And the fog that envelopes the WS's brain literally keeps them from seeing reality. Instantly, their marriage was a sham; their partner was evil; they were never really happy. When a month before, they were looking forward to next Christmas. There IS no communicating with a WS about your relationship, because they have - by necessity, to live with their treachery - convinced themselves that YOU are the problem, not them.

That's why I keep saying you have to stop the affair first. Just being nice, hoping they'll 'remember' what you had..it won't work while they're busy getting their fix and worrying about the next hit. Psychologically, it is impossible. The affair has to be confronted or stopped in some way.

And the reason I say to look good, smell good, don't Love Bust, and meet their Emotional Needs while at the same time fighting the affair is that, once you DO stop the affair, the WS has to look around and see that you really ARE everything they wanted; you really DID stand by them and not go crazy on them. You never know the moment someone is going to come out of that fog; but when they do, you want an amazing 'you' to be the first thing they see.


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## turnera

nrtq, yes, there is just a unisex questionnaire. But if I recall, you're free to put your own information in there, to adapt it to your marriage; otherwise it wouldn't be such a useful tool.

And of course, it's entirely possible he's just fed up with you. That's how I've felt for the last 10 years (til I worked the MB program, though I still have residual feelings). I will never cheat, but I certainly wanted only to be away from my husband - because of HIM. But I went first, and fixed myself, and guess what? He came around and started meeting my needs. I voiced my unhappiness with his LBs - and told him I was going to leave him if things didn't change - and he stopped most of the LBs. But he wouldn't have done that if I hadn't gone first and become a better person myself. I had to give HIM a reason to want to stay with ME.


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## notreadytoquit

So we each went for our first individual counselling session. I went first few days ago he went yesterday. He did not ask me anything about my session and I did not ask anything about his session. Are we supposed to discuss any of this or should I wait until we go together. I just don't want to look like I am putting pressure on him by asking questions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nice777guy

I think be patient and wait until your first joint session. Its not like your questions have been getting you very far anyway. That's good that he went!


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## notreadytoquit

turnera said:


> nrtq, yes, there is just a unisex questionnaire. But if I recall, you're free to put your own information in there, to adapt it to your marriage; otherwise it wouldn't be such a useful tool.
> 
> And of course, it's entirely possible he's just fed up with you. That's how I've felt for the last 10 years (til I worked the MB program, though I still have residual feelings). I will never cheat, but I certainly wanted only to be away from my husband - because of HIM. But I went first, and fixed myself, and guess what? He came around and started meeting my needs. I voiced my unhappiness with his LBs - and told him I was going to leave him if things didn't change - and he stopped most of the LBs. But he wouldn't have done that if I hadn't gone first and become a better person myself. I had to give HIM a reason to want to stay with ME.


Turnera question for you. Did you suddenly shut down on your husband or was this something going on for a while? Did you guys have fights all the time? Did you suddenly decide to sleep in a different bed? Did it take you a while before you actually told your husband what was really bothering you? I am just trying to see how other people have reacted in these type of situations.


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## turnera

I'm a really quiet person; he's really vocal. I have never talked much. As the years went on, and he criticized or made nasty looks, etc., I just shut down. Honestly, I think I went 5 years without talking except for necessities, and he never even noticed. I started pulling back on affection, time together, speaking, even looking at him. I'd tell him occasionally how I was being interrupted and it hurt my feelings, or some such, and he'd make remarks and try to be 'good' for awhile, but it always rolled back to status quo. My self esteem was at -500%. At MB, they told me that I HAD to tell him the truth, not just up and leave him when D19 graduated, so as to give him an opportunity to change. I was so fearful, because he responded to criticism with anger and nastiness. Finally, one night I had had enough and I was clearing out my stuff, throwing it away because I was ready to just end things, you know? So, at that point, I had nothing left to lose, so I told him the truth. He surprised me by actually listening, and making some changes. Not a lot, but enough. Never slept in another bed because I've always been afraid of making him mad; that would be confrontational, and I avoided conflict at all costs.


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## notreadytoquit

So today I went for my second individual therapy session. We did talk about few other things but I don't seem to be able to get some real advice from the counsellor. I know she cannot give me info on what my husband said but can she not sort of give some opinion or advice to get us on the same track? I realize these things take time. My husband actually booked another session(his second) for this Friday and I am going again next Tuesday.

At the moment we are doing individual sessions. I told her that I would not mind doing a session together with my husband. My husband and I have not said anything about the counselling to each other and I don't want to look like I am asking too many things since he gets edgy when I ask too many questions.


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## 63Vino

Im a big fan of making sure you change counselors quickly if you dont feel results.. and I'm on the impatient side and i say its WAY too early for you to expect results or advice. 
Early to ME means 6-10 sessions you should start to feel if your counselor has the skill to start giving you signs. I choose the word "signs" carefully because counselors are there to "shine some light" help you both see things in a more clear way. NOT to tell you what to do.. Keep going as often/frequent as possible and dont hold back.. let it all be told, honestly.

Be patient. 

I know you want to BE "there". BUT if you and hubby are going.. its a BIG positive sign, take solice in that. 
Its ok to ask him how he feels after his session, does he feel its useful, etc. but of course no details, unless he wants to share.
I agree with NG that once you feel a little settled and get to the joint stuff, it will progress more. You may then both be in a "mode" to start sharing. 
Just keep going, be patient and take it as it comes. Focus on the process, where you are today... and not the endpoint!!!

all the best.


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## notreadytoquit

So today I went out in the bad weather, got him a good luck card. He is having an interview tomorrow in another city(got the flight details so I know he is not deceiving me). I basically wrote in the card: Good luck on your interview tomorrow and thank you for everything you are doing for..... and me. Love.... and also signed it from our son. I gave it to him after dinner. When he opened it up he got this serious face as if I wrote something bad in it and just with a low voice barely said: You are welcome you did not need to do this it's just an interview.

Now why the heck he would look so upset from a nice card? I am trying to be nice and attentive, I give him all the space in the world and I get this in return. I don't bother him during the day. He does not even bother to call and ask how our son is doing. I only ask him at night how his day was. He does not ask anything in return. I hate this vicious behaviour on his part. Why is he so mad with me? I don't understand all this anger. I was thinking of asking him to do the Love Buster/emotional needs thing but I am affraid he will get even more ticked off.

Anyone's thoughts on this?

PS I am working on checking if there is any sort of an affair. So far nothing on the keylogger but then there is the blackberry so I don't get my hopes to high on the keylogger stuff. 

I was going to call few of his closer friends tomorrow to see if he has said anything to them about being unhappy with me in the past 2 years. Do you people think this could be a good idea? I am also going to be talking to his brother tomorrow night about something else so I was thinking of asking him too. My H mentioned that he had told his brother about us but I am not so sure about it because they are not overly close.


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## nice777guy

I wouldn't talk to anyone that you aren't close to.

I still wonder if part of his problem has to do with having lost his job. So many men see their career as their identity. "Maybe" the card just reminded him about the interview, which he's probably already very nervous about.

You used the word "vicious" - was he just quiet in his response, or actually angry?


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## notreadytoquit

Well he said the You're welcome in a very low voice but when I said vicious is his whole attitude towards me in general and if anything I am trying to stay out of his way right now, I don't ask for anything, I am nice even though I don't get nice treatment in return.

The reason why I want to talk to some of those friends is that I want to see if he has said anything to them in the past about being unhappy with my attitude or is this just one big BS story to cover up for something else. The job loss happened beginning of January 2010 and his behaviour started changing in December 2009(at least that's when I noticed it)


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## notreadytoquit

Well I guess Turnera was right. It is an affair. Finally the keylogger paid off. Got into his cell phone account and the one credit card that I did not have access to. Tons of phone calls to/from with this former female colleague of his(not the executive assistant like I doubted but another one), hotel charges at nearby hotels and all this since the beginning of January. In December I noticed on his other cell phone there were phone calls to this same person but at that time he had a work cell phone that I/nor he did not have access to the statements.

So what do I from here? Tomorrow is my other session with the therapist(individual). I was thinking of calling the PI and giving them this info of his whereabouts. It should not be difficult to catch him now on video. 

Interesting enough, at this moment I don't feel angry or surprised. I guess it was a matter of just confirming people/places. What an idiot.


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## f1r3f1y3

Hi,

I'm sure other people will be along soon that are better placed to help you, but I just wanted to say I'm really sorry this has happened to you. You seem like a genuinely caring and warm person, you are certainly not an idiot at all. 

The silver lining is that at least now you know after all this time.

It'll be hard to do but if you can, I'd keep quiet about what you know right now, don't confront him yet. You need to think about how you are going to handle this, what you are prepared to do etc. so that you can handle the confrontation confidently.

Wishing you all the best.


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## notreadytoquit

Interesting enough I feel more confident now than I felt let's say two days ago. He was trying to blame me for being negative and so on. I am sure there is a reason why he did this and nobody is perfect but and affair is not an excuse for any problems in a marriage. Things could be resolved 99% of the time with proper communication.

I would like to hear what other people have to say here that have been in a similar situation. He has never been violent or physically abusive with me so I am not too worried about that. I think if I get some sort of video/photo proof it would be really hard for him to deny it. From the looks of it this is a sexual relationship and I am not sure how and if I could get over it.


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## Doc Savage

Getting over it is easy if you really want to. My wife still talks to her old high school boyfriends and it's no skin off my back.

When people drag other people through the process of legal, financial and emotional teerorism because they feel betrayed, the other person become even more irrate and it mentally reaffirms their initial feeling of inadequecies, etc.

Question, do you want to get back at them or move on or get back with them. Once you have confronted them using the individuals from outside the circle of the relationship, the s**t has hit the fan.

Hell my first wife thought I was cheating on her and brought in her family to confront me. She didn't even include my family just to make me comfortable with her concerns. Well once I was on the block for NOTHING I knew that she was more than just worried, she was mega-selfish. Boy did she have egg on her face and from that point on the marriage was destined for the scrap heap. She did everything she could to ruin it and I tried everything to fix it. FAILURE!

Fix or flee, if you want to flee then use the outside tools, otherwise family counseling may be the best bet. If he is remorseful, either choice you make for the future, never hold it over his head. And expect the same consideration.


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## turnera

I've been away, just saw this. I'm so sorry. What has happened?


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