# The reason wives won't have sex



## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

After reading most of the threads about this topic and the different theories. I think the reason wives won't have sex can be summed up in four words. They don't WANT to!

Basically we as humans do what we WANT to do! 
There are various motivations for wanting to do something, but it basically comes down to two things. Either we want to do something because it provides a BENEFIT or we we want to do something so that we don't have to receive a CONSEQUENCE for not doing it.

The theories that are floating around on this site about how to get the wife to be more cooperative are basically saying the same thing. They are telling the husband he either needs to provide a benefit strong enough to make her want to have sex or give her a consequence strong enough for not doing it that will make her want to do it instead of receiving the consequence. 

If the wife can not be motivated to WANT to have sex then the husband has to make some choices - accept things as they are and deal with it (in whatever manner he can) or get out of the marriage.

It is really quite simple in theory. Not so easy in practice.

I am ashamed to say I was a wife who, for over 25 years, more often then not denied sex to my husband. I had excuse after excuse, but the bottom line was, I just did not want to have sex with him. Pleasing him and providing him pleasure, orgasms, or other benefits were just not strong enough to make me want to do it. And, I was more willing to accept the consequences of having a distant, angry husband then to have sex with him. 

I see things differently now! I have come to realize the benefits of having a happy healthy sex life - both for me and my husband physically and emotionally. And I no longer deal with the consequences of a distant, angry husband. Our marriage is still far from perfect, but oh so so much better. In fact it is so good in many ways. Hind site allows me to see the pain and anguish I caused my husband, not to mention the pleasure I could have had if I had only allowed myself to let go and feel it. 

So many wasted years and so many regrets! But, thankfully, years ahead to make up for it!


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

Mary, great and simple way of thinking about it. So what was the trick that turned the tide in your relationship?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Why Not Be Happy? (Apr 16, 2010)

have you told him? what has been his response, etc.?


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Hubby, 

I would like to say I saw the light - but the truth is I had a sexual awakening caused probably by changes in my hormones - I am still not quite sure why. Usually women have this change in their early 40's. I was in my late 40's. When this happened I was horny and aroused most of the time. For the first time - I decided to let go of the "good girl syndrome" that had developed somewhere in my upbringing and explore my sexuality. Ere-go the BENEFIT at this time for me was sexual pleasure. For the first time in a long time sex felt good enough to out-weigh the negativity that I built in my head about it. Although it was quite confusing for my husband - who often asked "Who are you and what have you done with my wife?' - he was more than happy to enjoy it while it lasted. That was about 4 years ago. 

Unfortunately and ironically, my hormones changed again because of menopause about a year and a half later and I started having problems with my body responding the way it should. I found myself what I call brain horny, because I had discovered I really really liked sex and thought about it all the time (still do), but my body had a hard time getting physically aroused and I had diminished ability to reach orgasms. 

At this time it would have been very easy to just go back to the way I was for the 25 years before my awakening. However, I had experienced a different benefit from the year and a half of sexual exploration with my husband. I found that we had a happier and healthier marriage and I had a much more content and attentive husband. I didn't want to loose that (a consequence) so i worked really hard, researching everything I could to keep our sexual life alive. Around the same time my husband also experienced some age related sexual problems that we had to work at overcoming too.

Our sexual life the last couple of years has been a work in progress, but something we have both been committed to keeping alive and thriving. With the help of bio-identical hormone therapy and changing our eating and exercise habits and also seeking the help of a sex therapist we are doing fairly well at keeping us both satisfied. I have learned that sex for me really is mostly in the brain (which throughout this time period has stayed constantly horny) The more we have sex the more I want it. The more I want it the more we do it. And the more we do it - the happier we are and the healthier our marriage is. And those are the benefits that make me WANT sex. A lot of it! lol


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Why be happy, 

I am not sure what you are asking! "Told him" what?


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

People do things that they regret later. 

Many people wish that time could go back and they could have done it differently. 

Well, for the ones who have changed, great! Congratulations!!!

How about the ones who are still denying their husbands for sex? 

Will they be smart enough to say to themselves: From now on, no matter I want to or I don't want to, I am going to let my husband have sex with me.



Just think, he needs sex, if you don't want to have sex with him, he will have to find other methods to solve his needs. It is like he has to eat, if there is no food at home, he has to go out to eat.


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

Ooh, your story and Catherine's really blow my mind. Both of you are very loving women and I like reading your points of view.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thanks D

Hi Mary I am so glad you posted. My story is similar to yours. We will be married 10 years this summer and things are going great now. I could not say the same 2 yes ago, I was ready to walk away from my marriage because I was exhausted and felt my husband did not help me enough. I avoided having sex with him during that period, we still had it but far far less that he can tolerate. 

My epiphany came about from learning about men relationships and sexuality through research in an effort to save my family before giving up. I was shocked to learn that my rejection of my husband actually caused him emotional pain and depression. I love him even though we were troubled and I did not want him to be so deeply hurt. I asked him about the was he felt he confirmed that it hurt him deeply but he thought that I knew!

That was the beginning of our recovery, I showed him that of course I loved him in the way he needed to feel love and he was able to finally feel my exhaustion and need for his help. Now we are a team again. I wish other women would post about recovery, there are probably many avenues to solving the devastation of sexlessness, one is that the role of sex has to be emphasized, it not only simple fun and games with the one you love. for me I seem sometimes that i am able to directly transfer my emotions and needs to my husband and him to me. 

I am so happy that you are enjoying each other and making each other happy. I hope more woman read and try to re-establish the connection with their spouse. I don't have an answer as to how to make that happen but maybe jut by reading some of these threads. BTW I am trying to get over my "good girl" uptightness, I have succeeded in areas where he takes the lead and i follow but but I can not seem to initiate sex. I wish I could, I know it would make him happy but I can't make myself do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Catherine,

You are so right on. At least it didn't take you 25 years to figure out the importance of sex in a marriage. I applaud you! I too did not understand how my rejections affected my husband emotionally and how much it hurt him. I knew it made him mad and distant, but I thought he was just being selfish and demanding. I really did not see sex as a need for him. After all, I was fine without it. (or was I?) I can see now that neither of us was fine at all. 

A happy, healthy, and frequent sex life has such a bonding effect between a husband and a wife. It has truly made such a difference in everything between my husband and I. We get along better, we communicate better about everything. And we are like newlyweds who can't keep our hands off of each other - a lot of PDA. Even our kids (who are all married now) comment on it. 

For you - the CONSEQUENCE of your husband not helping you and your desire to leave the marriage was apparently strong enough to wake you up. You opened your eyes and in your research found the answer that made you WANT to have sex. It is a vicious cycle we women create for ourselves. We withdraw the one thing that can actually make our husbands emotionally connect with us, then they in turn withdraw things that are important to us. We deny sex more, they withdraw emotionally more. On and on it goes. Someone has to break the cycle to stop the unhappiness. You should be proud that you were the one to do it in your marriage. Now you get to reap the benefits. 

The "good girl" syndrome is a hard head game to get rid of. It has such a strong hold on many of us. My advice is to just take it in baby steps and keep working at it. Think of one thing that you are willing to do. Maybe it's just to - one night come to bed in something really really sexy looking. Don't say anything or do anything, just show up looking really sexy and get into bed. 

Here are a couple of books that were recommended to me that I also gave my daughter.

"Sheet Music" By: Dr. Kevin Leman 
"And They Were Not Ashamed: Strengthening Marriage Through Sexual Fulfillment" by Laura M. Brotherson. 

Dr. Brotherson specifically deals a lot with the "good girl" syndrome. 

You are so far ahead in the game - just by figuring out how important sex is in your marriage. Keep it up! (Literally lol)


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## marcopoly69 (Sep 7, 2010)

mary35 said:


> Catherine,
> 
> You are so right on. At least it didn't take you 25 years to figure out the importance of sex in a marriage. I applaud you! I too did not understand how my rejections affected my husband emotionally and how much it hurt him. I knew it made him mad and distant, but I thought he was just being selfish and demanding. I really did not see sex as a need for him. After all, I was fine without it. (or was I?) I can see now that neither of us was fine at all.
> 
> ...



AMEN TO THAT....now add to that the fact that for those of us who have high sex drive and are passionate as individuals, then the hurt of a sexless or boring sex life is terrible....through healthy and exciting sex life, what you achieve is appriciation for your partner in life...appreciations for her beauty, her understanding of you, her letting it go all for you...her give herself to you completly.....that my friends to me, in my book is the full extent of a woman showing her love for her husband....really refreshing to read this post....i will save it in case i think my wife could benefit from readining it....we, however, are doing well at this moment...lots of love, sex, and friendship...so i feel happy and want to show it her everyday some how...,


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

mary35 said:


> I would like to say I saw the light - but the truth is I had a sexual awakening caused probably by changes in my hormones - I am still not quite sure why. Usually women have this change in their early 40's. I was in my late 40's. When this happened I was horny and aroused most of the time. For the first time - I decided to let go of the "good girl syndrome" that had developed somewhere in my upbringing and explore my sexuality.


The POWER of hormones, never underestimate their role in our behaviors & desires. I think when a us older women come into a rush of testosterone or heavenly mixture of sex hormones that does this, it compels us to seek out SEX, there is an Irresistible pull like a moth to a flame, just like a raging hormonal Teenage boy. It is natures way. 

It took very little for me to loose my "Girl Good Syndrome" when I found myself literally "wet" 24 hours a day. Naughty thoughts were taking over my mind, I had a tremendous boost in energy, Flirting was my new language. I will never understand why this happened to me, doesn't appear to be much to explain it out there to read. But it was all goooooooood. Frustrating too , feeling I had a sex addiction & bothering the crap out of my husband for a time. 




mary35 said:


> I have learned that sex for me really is mostly in the brain (which throughout this time period has stayed constantly horny) The more we have sex the more I want it. The more I want it the more we do it. And the more we do it - the happier we are and the healthier our marriage is. And those are the benefits that make me WANT sex. A lot of it! lol


 Amen to this. :iagree: I *DO* need aroused now, no longer ready to jump on him as soon as he hits the door . 

But unlike before this awakening, I just "didn't get it", I used to be grouchier back then too!!! So good wives out there -hear us older wiser women......IF you find yourself irritable for not much reason, just grouchy at the drop of a hat, without growing resentment in your marriage, seriously, whether you realize it or not, you probably need LAID! More intimacy, more seduction, more playful flirting -be receptive of this heavenly bonding. 

I often wished I could go back in time -to relive what we missed. Now that I have tasted of it, I WANT TO BE AROUSED , never want to loose that. (I will seek hormones out in menopause if this diminishes). We PURPOSELY arouse each other now - to keep the spark, the spice, the happiness ongoing. 

The way I feel NOW , I believe , is the same as I did BEFORE my awakening, but clueless to the power of these things. So let us be a voice to you -if you are reading this. 

Here is a fantastic thorough article about how SEX starts between the ears >>> Your Brain on Sex | Reuniting




mary35 said:


> A happy, healthy, and frequent sex life has such a bonding effect between a husband and a wife. It has truly made such a difference in everything between my husband and I. We get along better, we communicate better about everything. And we are like newlyweds who can't keep our hands off of each other - a lot of PDA. Even our kids (who are all married now) comment on it.


My kids have even walked past & told us to shut the door ! Ha ha


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

I wish there was a way to get this understanding spread throughout the civilization. I really do think that it is the key to world peace, no kidding. There would be SO much less frustration and pent up anger/resentment if we just truly understood and then loved each other, not the way we need to be loved, but the way our partner needs to be loved by us.

Maybe every woman needs to have a high dose of Testosterone for one month and men need to go through one monthly cycle of the emotional roller coaster for each other to truly understand. 

I know it has been said a few times but it is so very true with men, if I am having frequent, passionate sex with my wife, my emotions flow like Niagra Falls...and it feels awesome to let myself feel that, maybe even more than women enjoy their emotions. It may be comparable to a womans ability to physically enjoy sex more than a man when they are fully sexually confident and free. 

However, take away the sex and I avoid my emotions, and my wife, like the Plague. It just HURTS WAY TOO MUCH! Feeling numb is 100x better in that situation. 


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hurra (Sep 13, 2009)

Mary summed it up perfectly. This site can be closed now! :ezpi_wink1:

Husbands should not have to wine and dine their wives every time they want to have sex. Its good on occasion to do that. But yes, they HAVE to WANT it.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

In my opinion, wives have to enjoy sex, if they love the feeling and orgasms of sex, I doubt that they won't want to have more sex. 

Men want sex because men can cum easily, how about those wives, I don't know if they can cum and enjoy each time. 

I was thinking yesterday, if men just lie there, don't do any thrusting, how many wives can make their men cum? My husband and I have been together for about 8 years, I made him cum tiwce, I think, just by my work. They can cum because they are active during sex activity. If men can't cum, will they enjoy sex this much and want it so often?

I read an article, don't rely on the other one for your sex pleasure. I think this is talking about women. Let's find out our sensitive spot, let's work on it, let's be more active, let's do more f**king, let's enjoy sex and orgasms. And men, don't be intimidated that your wives want to f**k you!

Sex is a wonderful thing, it is a unique amazing feeling human body enjoys, I am surprised than so many people don't want it!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thanks Mary I ordered the book from Amazon I hope to report positive results. I like your subtle approach that I think I can do. We sleep in the nude though he likes it that way but I will think of something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> People do things that they regret later. Many people wish that time could go back and they could have done it differently. Well, for the ones who have changed, great! Congratulations!!!How about the ones who are still denying their husbands for sex?
> 
> Will they be smart enough to say to themselves: From now on, no matter I want to or I don't want to, I am going to let my husband have sex with me.
> 
> Just think, he needs sex, if you don't want to have sex with him, he will have to find other methods to solve his needs. It is like he has to eat, if there is no food at home, he has to go out to eat.


Ref that comment - well my answer to that would be no matter what I do or don't want to do I'm going to do it?? I firmly believe it has to be because you want to - and if arguments, stress, friction, whatever, is in the way and you can't work your way through it and your closeness isn't there as a result, why would you want to?



mary35 said:


> Catherine,
> (SNIP). It is a vicious cycle we women create for ourselves. We withdraw the one thing that can actually make our husbands emotionally connect with us, then they in turn withdraw things that are important to us. We deny sex more, they withdraw emotionally more. On and on it goes. Someone has to break the cycle to stop the unhappiness. You should be proud that you were the one to do it in your marriage. Now you get to reap the benefits.
> 
> )


 --- and I'm on the cusp of trying this, even despite my own reservations about what I said above!



greenpearl said:


> In my opinion, wives have to enjoy sex, if they love the feeling and orgasms of sex, I doubt that they won't want to have more sex.
> 
> Men want sex because men can cum easily, how about those wives, I don't know if they can cum and enjoy each time.
> 
> ...


Yes yes yes he can and I can make it happen (not lately, part of same issue in this thread ) but yes all the same


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

greenpearl said:


> In my opinion, wives have to enjoy sex, if they love the feeling and orgasms of sex, I doubt that they won't want to have more sex.


I know this *SHOULD* be true, but it simply wasn't for me. I ALWAYS had on orgasm - every single encounter, if he went before me, I would even get mad & make him do it again shorty after ! There was no doubt I LOVED those orgasms- I wanted mine feircely. I remember thinking to myself during the act 'OH MY God does this FEEL GOOOOOOOOOD, there is not a feeling on earth to compare" - I even said that a few times to him -in the dark, under the sheets, in our quietness. 

But still when it was over, I had this insane belief that I was "good" for another week, or so many days. Unless in the meantime I was reading a hot & heavy romance Novel, he started working on me -even if I didn't show much interest (He didn't do that enough), or we was watching an erotic movie that aroused my mood. 

I simply had my mind on every other thing in life!! Kids, house, projects, church , reading, friends. But boy when I started to feel I wanted it, I was all over him. But still, this took DAYS. 

I realized when I came to TAM, mostly through MEM's many postings that men & women , if they just allow themselves to be available to be aroused, they will be!! I needed to be more
"RECEPTIVE" if my husband gave me *ANY HINT *he was in the mood. He is NOT one to pursue if he felt the slightest reluctance on my part. And I do mean "slightest" !! Never once did we have a fight about this or a "sit down talk". 

I NEVER felt a sting of resentment towards my husband my entire marraige, but unfortunetly he did start feeling it towards me, building to where he just about quit trying, and I never knew any of this was going on under the surface. He was just more grouchy towards the kids, never me, as hard as this is to believe. 

When I learned of this , I was VERY VERY upset that he never talked to me about it, I cried many times, grieving what I feel we "missed". I can not relate to any of these women who say their husband's badgered them for sex, this is utterly foreign to me. With us, I even took matters into my own hands in the middle of the night on occasion -feeling he might not want to be woke up -because he never showed that Aggressive -got to have it now "desire" but hid it & pushed it down. 


From our experience, MEN NEED TO TALK to their wives about their feelings in this (If mine would have done this -I swear we would not have wasted so many years -he was too quiet, respectful & sacrificial).... and Wifes need to be willing & Receptive to their advances when they desire to make love. 

This will avoid many growing resentments in marraige. 

He knows what a Book worm I have been my entire life, If he would have just bought me a book to help me open my mind, loose some of my repression, I think it would have changed our world- but I will never know. Live & learn.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

For me it was about my resentment, he had some towards me as well. Once that got resolved, and yes its been a slow road, things got better in the sex department. I think that's a big sex/marriage killer. Until its worked on or gone, there wont be much sex. Yes, many people force themselves to have it whether they want to or not. I wasn't one of those people neither was my husband. Thankfully with lots of work and dedication we are getting things back on track.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

SA,

I have always enjoyed sex, physical touch is my love language. And I love men. 

I think the main reason I left my ex was he wasn't romantic in bed for me. I liked all the passionate kissing and rolling around, he was a conservative man and he only did the basic stuff. 

I am not like others, they still stay and try hard to work out their marriages, I didn't have the patience to wait for a man to change. I told him I wanted to divorce, he told me that he would do everything, but when my feeling was gone, it was gone. When I tell people the relationship is over, I mean it is over. Have to give other people credit for trying! 

Now with my husband, he is just ideal for me. Emotionally I feel secure and loved, sexually I am very satisfied. Have to consider myself lucky for finding him. 

Sex is so important to me that I actually make it a routine. We are still young, I want to enjoy sex as much as I can.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

greenpearl said:


> SA,
> 
> I have always enjoyed sex, physical touch is my love language. And I love men. .


The craziest thing about me is -My primary Love Language *IS *physical touch too! Even then, I wanted my back scratched every single night, he would run his fingers through my hair for hrs watching tv, I loved when he ran his finges up & down the inside of my arms, I craved these things ! But then, mindless as it was, when we went to bed, I always had one of the babies inbetween us, I cuddled & kissed *them* all night. And he never said anything! If I was him , I would have raised the freaking roof. I can not relate to my husband's passivity at all. 



greenpearl said:


> I think the main reason I left my ex was he wasn't romantic in bed for me. I liked all the passionate kissing and rolling around, he was a conservative man and he only did the basic stuff.


 My husband was only into the basic stuff too. Lots of kissing, no rolling around. I feel if he has been more relentlessly erotic & creative in bed, I would have "opened up" sexually much much earlier in our marraige. I believe the potential was ALWAYS there -he just didn't know how to bring it out of me. We both sucked basically - no experience. He admits to being sexually repressed as well. 

He would have been satisfied with 1 postion (cowgirl) till his death, never suggesting anything else. For 19 yrs, all we did was Missionary & Cowgirl. Period. He did go down on me, I give him credit for that, but pretty vanilla for sure. 

Having a man who has a lustful creative mind & knows how to bring this to the bedroom, showing his woman new & exciting things, much lavishing, with some erotic flirting to boot, now that is what us women need! Ha ha


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> The craziest thing about me is -My primary Love Language *IS *physical touch too! Even then, I wanted my back scratched every single night, he would run his fingers through my hair for hrs watching tv, I loved when he ran his finges up & down the inside of my arms, I craved these things ! But then, mindless as it was, when we went to bed, I always had one of the babies inbetween us, I cuddled & kissed *them* all night. And he never said anything! If I was him , I would have raised the freaking roof. I can not relate to my husband's passivity at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think maybe at that time you were so excited about being able to have babies, your baby was your priority!  Many mothers are like this!  Your children will have fond of memories of sleeping in your arms!  Don't know if they will remember that. I always remember sleeping in my mom's arms, it is a wonderful memory for me to have now. 

With my ex, there was even no kissing after wards, it wasn't that he didn't care about me, sex became boring after the first couple of passionate years, can't blame him, he wasn't a romantic man. Talking about him is no fun! 

I don't know how many men there really know how to arouse a woman. They want horny wives, are they sexually skilled men? Poor marcopoly is creative, but he is with a conservative wife. 

Life is interesting, people who match don't come together, and you see so many mismatches here!


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## Nine-E (Oct 7, 2008)

greenpearl said:


> I don't know how many men there really know how to arouse a woman. They want horny wives, are they sexually skilled men?


The problem is that in the beginning, it doesn't take much to arouse her. The man didn't have to be skilled. But over time she gets bored and doesn't tell her husband why. She doesn't explain that the woman she used to be is not who she is now. And the man is left feeling hurt and rejected because he's doing all the stuff that used to turn her on but getting nowhere.

Is it any wonder he's feeling lost and confused?


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

I pity anyone who does not know the joy of healthy, happy fun sex!! I can't imagine denying MYSELF that pleasure. When I have tried to deny "him" I always falter simply because I enjoy the physical pleasure! It doesn't hurt that I know it also does good things for his sake (wish the he's in my life had thought to return the good things but hey...)

Good for you for finding your happy place


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

hubby said:


> I wish there was a way to get this understanding spread throughout the civilization. I really do think that it is the key to world peace, no kidding. There would be SO much less frustration and pent up anger/resentment if we just truly understood and then loved each other, not the way we need to be loved, but the way our partner needs to be loved by us.
> 
> Maybe every woman needs to have a high dose of Testosterone for one month and men need to go through one monthly cycle of the emotional roller coaster for each other to truly understand.
> 
> ...


Exactly. And it can make you bitter to hear all of these women finally discover the rage of testosterone late in life, finally understand what we've been going through relentlessly since the age of 12 . . . and it _never goes away_ in our adult life. If I had waited to act until my wife got her testosterone upsurge, I doubt we'd be together now. Luckily, she's a highly intelligent open-minded woman who has an intuitive understanding of male psychology. We have a great relationship. But if the sex stopped . . . well, our relationship wouldn't be nearly as great.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Nine-E said:


> The problem is that in the beginning, it doesn't take much to arouse her. The man didn't have to be skilled. But over time she gets bored and doesn't tell her husband why. She doesn't explain that the woman she used to be is not who she is now. And the man is left feeling hurt and rejected because he's doing all the stuff that used to turn her on but getting nowhere.
> 
> Is it any wonder he's feeling lost and confused?


For that part, I agree! 

At the beginning of people's relationship, they are infatuated with each other, they have all the passion and chemistry going, when they see each other, it is like fire starts burning right away, two bodies jump on each other. I remember when I first started dating my husband, I was looking forward to seeing him at the door and jumping to bed right away. 

Then after a few years, things changed. I remember telling my husband that I didn't find our sex exciting anymore. He told me I was full of bullsh*T. But he managed to get me out of that dull period, I can't remember what he did. Anyway, the dull feeling didn't last long for me. 

I just thought of something as I was typing here. I met him when I was 30, we fell in love, we got married. Let's say the infatuation stage is four years, I was 34 when I started feeling our sex was not exciting anymore. But then my body reached maturity shortly after wards, I mean I reached my sex peak. When women's sex drive reaches their peak, I think their sexual desire is like men's, want sex all the time, so they don't have issues with sex being exciting or not. That's me now. Now I just need sex, I just need a hard cok, I just need orgasms, being able to have strong orgasms everyday is a great feeling. 

It is only my personal experience and feeling, I don't know anything about others!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

I agree with GP in that a woman's drive has peeks and valleys. I must be the weird one of the bunch in that I never really had a valley. Sadly, I have been told that I need a hysterectomy and I have been putting that off for a few years. I don't want the valley that comes with that. 
Not to generalize too much, but alot of the reasons why a woman doesn't want sex isn't because she lacks a sex drive. It is because she is resentful as all get out at her husband for things he does/doesn't do outside the bedroom. As Ian Ironwood put it so well "she uses sex as a weapon" and there is some truth to that. She doesn't feel sexual if her husband behaves like a man child and she certainly will not want to have sex with somebody she does not view as her equal or above. While this may not be the case for all women, it seems to be for most. A happy wife who feels her needs outside the bedroom are met will gladly meet all her husbands needs in the bedroom. 
It isn't that she isn't sexual, it is that she doesn't want to be sexual with her husband for whatever reason. Get to the bottom of that reason and her legs will stay open like 7-11.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

Brennan, I agree, and I will go a step deeper. In some cases the real loss in sexual interest a wife has for her husband probably has more to do with lack of RESPECT. While this leads to resentment it does not have to. I would say that a healthy mix of sexless marriages are actually with husbands who are doing everything in there power to get that desire back doing the things HE THINKS she needs. He loses his backbone and independence in the process and becomes the man child. This breads a huge lack of respect, which in turn decreases sexual desire in him. Unfortunately the guy has no idea that what he is trying so hard to fix, he is actually making it worse. 

A woman generally starts a relationships with a high level of respect, mainly because that is what draws her to him. Once the man gets all the wild sex he wants in the beginning, his emotions run wild and he will lose himself to her in the process, while all this time he thinks that is what she wants. 

This is all fixed getting both people in the relationship back to where they were in the beginning. Two independent people who respected each other AND themselves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

hubby said:


> Brennan, I agree, and I will go a step deeper. In some cases the real loss in sexual interest a wife has for her husband probably has more to do with lack of RESPECT. While this leads to resentment it does not have to. I would say that a healthy mix of sexless marriages are actually with husbands who are doing everything in there power to get that desire back doing the things HE THINKS she needs. He loses his backbone and independence in the process and becomes the man child. This breads a huge lack of respect, which in turn decreases sexual desire in him. Unfortunately the guy has no idea that what he is trying so hard to fix, he is actually making it worse.
> 
> A woman generally starts a relationships with a high level of respect, mainly because that is what draws her to him. Once the man gets all the wild sex he wants in the beginning, his emotions run wild and he will lose himself to her in the process, while all this time he thinks that is what she wants.
> 
> ...


Bingo!!! You loose respect, you loose sex. The worst and I mean the WORST period of our marriage was when my husband and I were at his company function (this was years ago) and his woman hating co-worker came up to us with his wife and started talking about politics, religion and gays. Yup, the trifecta of stupid crap you could talk about at a company function. He rambled on and on and I finally stepped in and spoke my peace. He looked at my husband and said "Your wife is an idiot, so sorry you have to live with her. Next time when she goes off like that, just grab her tits so she knows her place". Me? I wanted to knock his teeth down his throat. My husband? He just said "Oh, Larry, sorry you feel that way". 
Loss of respect IMMEDIATE and I didn't want sex with him for 2 months.
He could have been a man and stood up for me (because he holds the same values as me) but he chose not to. Conflict avoider. What did he get in return? A wife who questioned her marriage, his ability to take care of me and have my better interest at heart and a woman who was now so turned off by him I viewed him as a loser. 
Sex for a woman isn't about the moves he does in the bedroom, it is about the moves he does outside.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

You got mad at him because he wouldn't stand up for you at a company function.. Come on really..

If my Wife pulled one like that on me, I was raise hell..


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Brennan,

If that happened to me, I would just go home and tell him what he did made me upset, I would let him know it bothered me! 

I think I don't resent any men for long term. 

If I didn't like them , found out they were not the kind of men I was interested, I just left them. This happened during my man searching period. 

With my ex, I didn't resent him. I was disappointed with him, but never resented him. 

With my husband, he doesn't even disappoint me, I am quite content with what he is giving me. 

I couldn't hold any grudge for too long, when I was upset, I was upset, I screamed, I yelled, I let my feeling show! They can read me inside out. 

Now I am in control of my temper, I seldom get upset now. What people say doesn't affect me much any more. What they say might be unpleasant, I don't like it, but I just shrug it off, and focus on something else. 

Happy.............................................


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

Tool said:


> You got mad at him because he wouldn't stand up for you at a company function.. Come on really..
> 
> If my Wife pulled one like that on me, I was raise hell..


Sorry Tool, but if it happened to us, both I and my husband would raise hell for that douche of a guy - politely of course, but he would effing get it . As my dear departed Father in Law once said in public, as a retort to a veiled offense: "The world is run by the extreme, not by the mediocre".


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

reachingshore said:


> Sorry Tool, but if it happened to us, both I and my husband would raise hell for that douche of a guy - politely of course, but he would effing get it . As my dear departed Father in Law once said: "The world is run by the extreme, not by the mediocre".


True true true! I agree!


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Brennan said:


> Bingo!!! You loose respect, you loose sex. The worst and I mean the WORST period of our marriage was when my husband and I were at his company function (this was years ago) and his woman hating co-worker came up to us with his wife and started talking about politics, religion and gays. Yup, the trifecta of stupid crap you could talk about at a company function. He rambled on and on and I finally stepped in and spoke my peace. He looked at my husband and said "Your wife is an idiot, so sorry you have to live with her. Next time when she goes off like that, just grab her tits so she knows her place". Me? I wanted to knock his teeth down his throat. My husband? He just said "Oh, Larry, sorry you feel that way".
> Loss of respect IMMEDIATE and I didn't want sex with him for 2 months.
> He could have been a man and stood up for me (because he holds the same values as me) but he chose not to. Conflict avoider. What did he get in return? A wife who questioned her marriage, his ability to take care of me and have my better interest at heart and a woman who was now so turned off by him I viewed him as a loser.
> Sex for a woman isn't about the moves he does in the bedroom, it is about the moves he does outside.


:iagree: I think women are very attracted (umm ok me), by men who will put them first and stand up for their wives. If you feel that he would rather avoid conflict with someone else rather then do the right thing by you it is a huge turn off, and loss of respect is a big issue. 

There is nothing sexier then a man who can stand up for what he believes in and easily shows his wife that he believes every day that his relationship is worth it and top priority.

That does not mean that he should be a push over and agree with everything his wife says, just that he should make it clear that with every decision he makes he has his wifes best interests at heart. 

A real man will not care what his co worker or friends think about his actions, he will simply do the right thing.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

Not at a company function.. You really need to pick your battles wisely..

Im not going to jeopardize my career, when simply ignoring the DB is enough..


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Tool said:


> Not at a company function.. You really need to pick your battles wisely..
> 
> Im not going to jeopardize my career, when simply ignoring the DB is enough..


Not for your woman.

There is no need to go in guns ablazing, but why should a man stand by while his wife is disrespected? Why can't he calmly say "I would appreciate it if you were respectful to my wife".

Your kind of thinking is whimpy, even as a woman I wouldn't let any one disrespect my man, not a co worker, not a close friend NO ONE!

Why is it OK for another man to be a total ass to the person you say you love the most, but not OK for you to reasonably request they respect her and you by refraining from such behaviour? 

I have to say it's my pet peeve. If a guy isn't man enough to "protect" his wife then he is not man enough for me.

And it will directly effect how she sees you and therefore it will effect your sex life.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Tool said:


> Not at a company function.. You really need to pick your battles wisely..
> 
> Im not going to jeopardize my career, when simply ignoring the DB is enough..


There is a big difference between speaking up and starting a fight. One can be done at a company function and the other cannot. To top it all off, Larry was a subordinate.


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## AltoSax4ever (Feb 23, 2011)

Ok, so I am new here and have been sitting reading all of this info and don't even know where to begin. I enjoyed the whole thermostat thing in another thread and completely see that my wife and I are apparently in two different climates. I feel a sense of relief in some ways that I am not alone. 

I have been dreading signing up and entering this site because I feel almost like I am cheating. We have been married for almost 17 years and have known each other for 24 years. But, I have gotten to the point of being at a complete loss on getting closer physically. This has been going on our whole marriage, but I have just gone along with it, but I am really getting tired of it and I don't think it is fully my fault. Whenever I bring sex or physical closeness up, I immediately get her angry about, "are we having this discussion again"? I am good at fixing things, that's what I do for a living, but I can't seem to fix this problem. I read here and see that people have the same issues, and that provides some relief. I love my wife dearly and do everything I can as a husband (at least in my mind), but I am definitely feeling so frustrated now that I am beginning to look for answers instead of just ignoring things. Anyway, thanks for letting me vent a little. Lunch is over!


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Syrum said:


> Not for your woman.
> 
> There is no need to go in guns ablazing, but why should a man stand by while his wife is disrespected? Why can't he calmly say "I would appreciate it if you were respectful to my wife".
> 
> ...


I thought the whole point of the sexual revolution was that women didn't NEED the protection of men? Sounds an awful lot like an attraction to security. This is one of those "mixed messages" that make us menfolk so crazy. Do you want us to be old-fashioned gentlemen or new-fashioned sensitive dudes? One answer only, please . . .


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

AltoSax4ever said:


> Whenever I bring sex or physical closeness up, I immediately get her angry about, "are we having this discussion again"?


The proper answer for this is: "Yes, yes we are. And we will continue having it for the rest of our lives, perhaps every single day, until you come to understand my position. You don't even necessarily have to agree with it, but you must at least understand."


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## AltoSax4ever (Feb 23, 2011)

IanIronwood said:


> The proper answer for this is: "Yes, yes we are. And we will continue having it for the rest of our lives, perhaps every single day, until you come to understand my position. You don't even necessarily have to agree with it, but you must at least understand."


So with that in mind, what about the "thermostat" thread and being on two different settings? I read where people were dialing it down considerably to see if they get a response from their spouse. I am thinking of taking that approach, but it seems like a game to me. I feel somewhat fortunate as a friend of mine is getting a divorce right as we speak, because of a sexless marriage. Ours is a far cry from that being 1-3 times a month, but all by my pushing and only on Saturdays (most of the time), in the dark, with the temperature between 68 and 72... So, I am wondering if maybe I should dial it down and see if that "talk" comes up? Maybe I am playing with fire. I would definitely not talk to him or anyone else that I know for that matter because there is no one that I can trust, hence, why I am on here. 

Well, again it sure feels good to vent even if I don't get any kind of response, because it is such a weight sometimes. Off to band practice.:smthumbup:


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

IanIronwood said:


> I thought the whole point of the sexual revolution was that women didn't NEED the protection of men? Sounds an awful lot like an attraction to security. This is one of those "mixed messages" that make us menfolk so crazy. Do you want us to be old-fashioned gentlemen or new-fashioned sensitive dudes? One answer only, please . . .


Please don't get me started on the sexual revolution. 

I have no mixed messages for men, I think men can be manly and sensitive. I like old fashioned gentlemen. That doesn't mean an ass or a pig, that means a real gentlemen, who will treat women well and respect them. Take into consideration what she thinks and feels, but still be man and do what needs to be done. You don't have to treat a woman badly in order to stay manly.

No one likes to be with someone who is selfish or who treats them badly, everybodies confused and there seems to be a gender war going on. I personally believe women should step back a bit and let men feel like men, that does not mean step back and let your man walk all over you and treat you like crap. That means when you have a good guy, do not run him down, belittle him and make him feel like an idiot for even trying. Men want to feel needed and wanted as much as women.

However men need to take responsibility too, they need to stand up for themselves, and when someone runs them down or their family/ wife, they need to step up like and say it's not acceptable. (Even to their wives if she is the one complaining when hes trying to do the right thing). Women should absolutely voice opinion if their man is treating them badly or has even accidentally hurt their feelings, however telling him he's an idiot for forgetting to take out the trash is helping no one. 

I know I am a capable person, and my fiance knows that too, but I still want him to take care of me, and in turn I want to take care of him. Just in different ways.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Brennan said:


> There is a big difference between speaking up and starting a fight. One can be done at a company function and the other cannot. To top it all off, Larry was a subordinate.


Did you ever wonder why Larry felt comfortable saying that to your husband? That just seems real odd. I guess he could just be a complete idiot though.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

AltoSax4ever said:


> Ok, so I am new here and have been sitting reading all of this info and don't even know where to begin. I enjoyed the whole thermostat thing in another thread and completely see that my wife and I are apparently in two different climates. I feel a sense of relief in some ways that I am not alone.
> 
> You are definitely not alone! Unfortunately this is an age old problem for husbands and wives.
> 
> ...


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

AltoSax4ever said:


> So with that in mind, what about the "thermostat" thread and being on two different settings? I read where people were dialing it down considerably to see if they get a response from their spouse. I am thinking of taking that approach, but it seems like a game to me.
> 
> It is a game. A game of motivating your wife to WANT to have sex with you! Your dialing it down imposes a consequence and shows her by your actions (after all talking hasn't helped - has it?) that sex is needed to bring you closer together. Just be sure that you also show her the benefit of being a warmer and more loving husband when you do get the sex! (a benefit)
> 
> ...


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

Hmmm... The whole defending my wife issue seems weird. I would never ever take my gal's place in defending herself. I would actually support her. Would just give her the "go for it" look. 
Why would your husband need to say something about it? It might be something I grew up with. I've been most of my life with only my mom and three sisters (dad is a sailor) and I have seen all the women in my life stand up for themselves and come out victorious. Even against bigger men who could crush them physically. I got that fire from them, even if I'm very laid back.

I'm not the most physically imposing guy (quite scrawny) and I know how to shut anyone's mouth better than anyone I know. The only moment I would jump in between a fight between two people, be it my family, gf or just a friend, is if I felt the person was losing the discussion or is about to get hit. Same for when I'm in a discussion. Will always tell other people to back off cause I've got this.

Guess I'm more of the got your back type of person and I just don't see the use for a man to defend the women in this day and age. I do see the need for the man to actively signal that he will take over if anything is about to happen.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Kobo said:


> Did you ever wonder why Larry felt comfortable saying that to your husband? That just seems real odd. I guess he could just be a complete idiot though.


Larry saw my husband in social situations. My husband is a complete conflict avoider and Larry knew this. At work, he is a take charge kind of guy and nobody crosses his path. Outside of work, he avoids anything that he would deem ugly. Larry knew this and took advantage of it as he didn't like me for years. 
Reason? Larry and a bunch of guys from work were going to Vegas for a trade show convention. He had the gaul to email my husband and ask him to make sure the higher ups didn't check the credit card receipts in that they would all be going to brothels. Hubby was their boss and was going on the trip. He replied that everybody who is going is there to promote the company and nothing more and nobody is charging anything on the company cards unless it is legitimate or they will be fired. Larry made the assumption that it was ME who put hubby up to this. 
Yes, Larry is a complete idiot and db. He was eventually fired from that firm for sexual harassment and has since been fired from two other firms for the same thing. 
I should have rearranged his orthodontia when I had the chance.


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

Im sorry, if anyone anywhere would have talked to my wife like that I would run his ass down, period. I can find another job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

hubby said:


> Im sorry, if anyone anywhere would have talked to my wife like that I would run his ass down, period. I can find another job.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


EXACTLY! It made me loose respect for him, big time. He has since earned it back but damn, he was this ****bags boss! I am not talking wail on the guy but a simple "You don't ever talk to my wife like that, understand?" 
Eh, I got him back. We were socializing with others when Larry came up to the bar as I was ordering our drinks. He was shifting his eyes around to see what drink at the bar would make him seem cool. He was after all a Miller Lite kind of guy. I ordered a 24 year old Macallen "neat" for my husband and a Cosmo for me. He leaned over and asked me what I ordered. I told him the Scotch is for me and the Cosmo is for my hubby. Guess what he walked around with all night? 
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
F'ing idiot!!!!


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Draguna said:


> Hmmm... The whole defending my wife issue seems weird. I would never ever take my gal's place in defending herself. I would actually support her. Would just give her the "go for it" look.
> Why would your husband need to say something about it? It might be something I grew up with. I've been most of my life with only my mom and three sisters (dad is a sailor) and I have seen all the women in my life stand up for themselves and come out victorious. Even against bigger men who could crush them physically. I got that fire from them, even if I'm very laid back.
> 
> I'm not the most physically imposing guy (quite scrawny) and I know how to shut anyone's mouth better than anyone I know. The only moment I would jump in between a fight between two people, be it my family, gf or just a friend, is if I felt the person was losing the discussion or is about to get hit. Same for when I'm in a discussion. Will always tell other people to back off cause I've got this.
> ...


Well we are not talking about lively discussion or debate, all of which I can handle myself in very well, and my fiance knows this.

This is very different from someone directly disrespecting you, calling you names, and behaving in a hugely disrespectful manner.

If it was someone I worked with behaving that way or a friend that did that to one of my children or my husband you can bet i wouldn't stand for it, I would leave them in no doubt that people are to treat my family with kindness and respect, even when disagreeing. Any one man or woman who would stand by while other people put their family down is weak in character and doesn't have what it takes to stand by their convictions.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

hubby said:


> Im sorry, if anyone anywhere would have talked to my wife like that I would run his ass down, period. I can find another job.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well good to hear, but as my fiance pointed out to me today, a job to support your family is very important too, however we both agreed you can politely make it clear that you won't stand for your wife being treated in such a way.


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

Syrum said:


> Well we are not talking about lively discussion or debate, all of which I can handle myself in very well, and my fiance knows this.
> 
> This is very different from someone directly disrespecting you, calling you names, and behaving in a hugely disrespectful manner.
> 
> If it was someone I worked with behaving that way or a friend that did that to one of my children or my husband you can bet i wouldn't stand for it, I would leave them in no doubt that people are to treat my family with kindness and respect, even when disagreeing. Any one man or woman who would stand by while other people put their family down is weak in character and doesn't have what it takes to stand by their convictions.


Guess it's a difference in upbringing. My mom always taught me to handle that kind of **** myself. No need to involve someone else unless you can't handle it. So if I had a conflict with another student, she would join me and just stand there as back up if she knew I could handle it. If their parent got involved, she would get involved and strike them down. As I said, if it were my children, yes, I would defend them. 

However, my girl is a strong woman. One look at her would be enough to know if she was boiling and ready to go, or if she was blindsided by the comment and I needed to step up. No need to jump in if she can humiliate him in a way he could not imagine possible. And lastly, over the years I've taught her how to handle most men and how they attack women. You should see her face as she walks away and I nod in approval. It's the face of happiness. 

And just to be clear, I understood the gravity of what he said. That I used debate or discussion was just a euphemism. My older sister is fierce, me younger one has fought guys into submission and my youngest never got beaten in heated fights on the street. So far in my life I've been in only 3 fights and I have always regretted those as I do horrible stuff to people when in that haze. My girl is also verbally strong and really, she would want to have her way with the guy before letting ke say anything. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

I understand what you are saying draguna. I am not in the least talking physical fights, because that is just something I don't do and naturally given that women are generally no where near as physically strong as men on average i would hope no man would stand around if a man got physically violent with a woman.

You say you will leave her to fight her battles by herself, and she may well want that, but not me. I wouldn't marry someone to stand all alone in the world when things got difficult. I want someone who will be there fore me and protect me, just as I would them. if i wanted to feel alone and like I have to do everything for myself and depend only on me, I would stay single.

I would think that most people know when things turn from a harmless debate or even a small argument, to someone belittling and being aggressive with the other. 

Honestly the reason I lost a of respect for my ex was because he wouldn't stand up to people, and I all ways had his back, so to speak, I am very loyal, caring and protective of the people I love. That's what being married is IMO.

I did not feel connected to him, it made me feel unimportant. It certainly did not make me find him attractive. I want a real man.


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

See, that is exactly what I meant. If someone asks for my help indeed, I'll charge in with all my might to defend them. Have done that for my sister, where I put my clothes on and called a friend and we went to her. I'm not saying leaver her to her own device while I avoid conflict. 
I'm always listening, making clear that I am there if she needs me. Same as what you meant, we just fill it in differently. It is all about having someone have your back and trusting him or her to defend you, be it as a pillar or a shield or even a sword. The roles can change as well. Sometimes I had to step in cause it was not going well etc or I felt he really needed to told. On the other hand, I handle most problems I have with women myself. She might step in though when she feels that she needs to 

And just to be clear, I do get offended if someone talks trash about my family or degrades them. I'll defend them, but if I is specifically one person and the person is with me, I always just check to see if they want to take it. 

As I said before, difference in upbringing. Not much else. Learned since a you age that women don't need it in a verbal fight and seeing how strong you all are, you don't. If you grew up without a father 50% of the time, well, nobody messes with you. 

And sorry if I use the wrong words for describing fights etc. Guess it is a translation issue 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AltoSax4ever (Feb 23, 2011)

Mary35,

Thanks so much for addressing each individual part of my rant! I have some new perspectives after reading a lot of the posts here. I think some of my problem is probably expecting something to happen and then pouting when it doesn't which continues the cycle. What I meant by "playing with fire" was that if I try to manipulate things that it might backfire. I definitely have always been the "giver" in the relationship, always bowing into pressure. I think you bring up a great point about being too attentive and helpful. I get up every morning and make breakfast for her, make her lunch (and the kids), get her laundry out of the dryer. I make dinner a lot of the time, while also doing the dishes, cleaning the kitchen, etc.. So, I don't mind doing those things at all, so I do them all of the time. I will take some time this weekend to look at some of the cyclical things that I do that need to be addressed.

So, first thing on the list is to dial down the temperature, which I have already started doing, while trying not to be my normal, closed self. I have to play (sax) Sunday night and will be gone for a number of hours, so that will give me some distance too.

Again, thanks for the insight. I will "study" it more at lunch as I have to start working. Yee Haw!!!!


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

AltaSax,

My husband was that way too. He definately was a giver and a people pleaser. He was alway trying to please me and keep me happy. He avoided confrontations and when confrontations occured he backed down most of the time to keep peace. He seldom complained about the sex issue and mostly just accepted it as the way things were. His reactions to the physical rejections were to pout, withdraw inside himself and become distant and angry - angry at other things, the kids, drivers, work, etc. Seldom was the anger directed at me. As I look back, I can see that when he got cold enough towards me it caused me discomfort, and I would give him sex - mechanical sex - him doing it with little participation from me. (shame on me - I know - I was really bad). In the early years giving him sex worked to get him to be warmer, but after years of my behavior - he pretty much stayed distant even after the sex. I can't blame him at all. I can see now so clearly how denying that aspect of our life caused him to withdraw further and further from me emotionally in an effort to lessen the pain he felt from being so rejected. Like I said hind sight is 20/20. I can clearly see the damage I caused to our relationship. My husband is a really nice guy (Uh Oh - there is that 4 letter word - "Nice" lol) and he did not deserve the way I treated him. Fortunately - I have repented and he is a very forgiving person. 

_I have to stop here and address this nice guy issue. I have a problem with the "nice guy" label being used as something bad and not attractive to women. I understand the theory behind the term and agree with it for the most part. I just think the term "nice" is the wrong word. I think "Wimpy" is a better term and describes the real problem. It's not that guys are too nice - it's that they are too wimpy - and don't, won't, or can't stand up for themselves. They are too accepting of the wife controlling the sex. For whatever reason they don't rock the boat - they don't stand up and firmly state their needs and insist that their needs are important too and need to be met just as much as her needs. This is wimpy behavior - it's not nice behavior. Nice is good!!! Wimpy - bad!!!!! Ok done with my rant!_

For the most part my husband treated me really good on a surface level. He was involved as a father. He helped around the house, did dishes, cooked, laundry. Anything I asked him to help with, he usually did. All of my friends told me how lucky I was. I was mostly satisfied with our life - so what incentive did I have to make any changes? None at all! He was a wimp - he never stood up to me in the areas that mattered to him greatly. I think he thought it better to sacrifice these things in order to keep peace in the family. And he just dealt with the sex issue the best he knew how. Things looked good on the surface - but I can now see how clearly damaged our relationship really was underneath. 

So when you read these different theories - understand that what they are about is not changing yourself into a bad guy - not about being a jerk to your wife. They are simply ways to help you understand how to stand up for yourself to her, set your boundaries about what is important and what you need and want from your relationship, and then convey those things to your wife in ways that cause her to pay attention! Read everything carefully - because the good advice should always tell you to be respectful but firm, fair, and consistent! Is it manipulation? Possibly - I prefer to call it behavior modification technigues (it sounds more scientific lol) We women have been using them on men since the beginning of time. Think about it!


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## AltoSax4ever (Feb 23, 2011)

mary35 said:


> AltaSax,
> 
> My husband was that way too. He definately was a giver and a people pleaser. He was alway trying to please me and keep me happy. He avoided confrontations and when confrontations occured he backed down most of the time to keep peace. He seldom complained about the sex issue and mostly just accepted it as the way things were. His reactions to the physical rejections were to pout, withdraw inside himself and become distant and angry - angry at other things, the kids, drivers, work, etc. Seldom was the anger directed at me. As I look back, I can see that when he got cold enough towards me it caused me discomfort, and I would give him sex - mechanical sex - him doing it with little participation from me. (shame on me - I know - I was really bad). In the early years giving him sex worked to get him to be warmer, but after years of my behavior - he pretty much stayed distant even after the sex. I can't blame him at all. I can see now so clearly how denying that aspect of our life caused him to withdraw further and further from me emotionally in an effort to lessen the pain he felt from being so rejected. Like I said hind sight is 20/20. I can clearly see the damage I caused to our relationship. My husband is a really nice guy (Uh Oh - there is that 4 letter word - "Nice" lol) and he did not deserve the way I treated him. Fortunately - I have repented and he is a very forgiving person.
> 
> ...


It almost sounds like a complete rundown of what I am as a person. Always being there for people when they needed me. Always helping and never asking for help. I do this at home, day in and day out, I do this at work, day in and day out. Me to a T. Whew!!! 

I definitely understand about reading and taking the advice carefully. I am a member of several other forums related to my hobbies and see poor advice given all the time, but I am knowlegeable in those areas. As for relationships, my wife is the only person I have ever been with, the only girlfriend I ever had, so I kinda of suck at experience and knowledge and just live with things. 

So, what kind of changes did your husband make to help your relationship? Or was it more of something on your end? How long did it take before things improved? So the "thermometer" thing did/did not work?

This happened this past weekend. Usually what happens is I try and get closer physically, you know, kissing, getting playful... Then I get the "we can on Saturday". I get so excited about Saturday because it has been almost 3 weeks and that is all I can think of. (I feel like my dog waiting for her Pupperoni treat!) Then Saturday comes and we are busy the whole day. I go to the bedroom and read and wait while she sits on Facebook for an hour or more reading and posting or spying on our son. I don't hear from her and I go out to check and she is on the couch asleep. She notices me and I give this dirty, dejected look and head to bed. I get up early in the morning and leave for my morning gig and come back later. I take a nap after being gone for more than 5 hours and she comes to the room and takes one with me. Of course, I try and make something happen, and I hear, "it's not dark out". Shut out again, I try and keep myself busy. So, it gets dark out and I start my "dog" routine again. She can see I am irritated and goes and takes a shower and is lying in the bed looking like, "can we get this over with, same position, same routine, no I don't want that, the sigh, are you finished"...... It is mechanical and I feel like throwing up afterwards. And it's the same story most of the time. What a headache!!!

So, I will continue to study and try and figure out a workable solution. I am just so happy to get this out....


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Altosax, I am sorry to say you just described accurately many of my own sick scenarios with my husband ... right down to the sigh and are you finished comments. I am so so sorry!!!!!! I really wish I could talk to your wife and get her to see what she is doing to you. But honestly, I know she would not hear it. 

Like you my husband and I are the one and only in each others lives. We were childhood sweethearts. Neither of us has ever been with anyone else and we were and in some ways still are pretty naive and inexperienced about many things. Your personality sounds very much like my husbands.

My husband did not make any changes, I changed. Well first my libido changed, and then I realized the positive effect on my marriage. Then, later when my body negatively changed cause of menopause, it would have been easy to go back to the way I was before, but I didn't want to. I now knew the benefits of a healthy sex life for both of us and I wanted to keep that. 

I would not count on your wife's libido changing, although it does tend to get stronger in some women in their early 40's. I was in my late 40's. You are probably going to have to find some other ways to help you with this situation. Once again - what you are doing now is not working. So change what you are doing or accept it as it is.

If you opt to change what you are doing, you are going to have to find a way to help her recognize that there are benefits to working on your sex life and/or consequences for not working on it. The temperature theory - while i have not read through it completely - sounds like it imposes consequences that try to make her uncomfortable enough to do a wake up call and benefits for heeding the wake up call. Will it work for your wife? Only you can decide if it's worth a try. 

You asked "So the "thermometer" thing did/did not work?" 

My husband was not using a planned out technique. what he was doing was real cooling down for self preservation. I think there is a huge difference. So I don't know if the temperature thing would have worked on me. 

I CAN tell you that sometimes when my husband seemed really really distant - it did make feel uncomfortable enough to do things to pull him to me - usually sex (but not good sex, more the kind you just described). I don't think he was trying to make me give him sex, he was simply detaching emotionally to prevent the pain he felt when I rejected him. Kind of like putting up a protective emotional wall. And that wall scared me. Not surprisingly, the kind of sex I gave him - didn't help at all - cause just as you described how you felt, I think he felt the same way. Who wouldn't? It made me sick just reading what you wrote - and I am so ashamed that I did the same thing as your wife. But even the emotional distance was not enough to make me change, because he still treated me good in most ways. So while I was uncomfortable with the emotional distance, I was comfortable with most everything else - so why change. I could live with a little distance as long as all the other good stuff continued. Most of the things I wanted and most of my needs were being fulfilled. 

I really believed I was taking care of his needs and most of his wants. I really really did not think sex was all that important - it wasn't for me and I erroneously concluded that sex was just an inconvenient WANT on his part that he would just have to learn to curtail a little. Our life and other responsibilities were overwhelming enough and I viewed sex as something that would happen when and if ever I decided we could fit it in. And since I was inconveniencing myself for him when I did have sex, he should be grateful for whatever he got. I am being brutally honest here and it sounds really ugly I am sorry to say. But it is what I thought. It's sad isn't it? - the delusional thinking process we sometimes come up with. 

"When did things improve?" Things improved immediately with our relationship when I started having sex because I wanted to. Of course my husband was somewhat guarded and cautious at first. And I am sure he thought it was temporary. But he was more than happy to enjoy the moment and a sex life he had not had for over 25 years even if it was only for a short period of time. 

Honestly, I don't know if these theories work or not. Some of them sound like they are based on forms of behavior modification techniques. I think what you have to figure out is what can you live with and what you can not live with. If you find a technique that feels doable for you - you are going to have to be extremely committed to it - as changing behaviors and attitudes takes a while. And more often than not - the behavior gets worse before it gets better. So you will have to be extremely conscientious and consistent with it. You have to buy into the program 100%. So find one that you are comfortable with. But understand clearly, you ONLY have control over yourself. You can not change your wife, she has to change herself. You can TRY to help motivate her to want to change, but that is ALL you can do. 

I am feeling positive for you. It sounds like you really love your wife and care for her well being as well as your own! That is a really good thing. So we will think positive - this will get better!


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## AltoSax4ever (Feb 23, 2011)

mary35 said:


> My husband was not using a planned out technique. what he was doing was real cooling down for self preservation. I think there is a huge difference. So I don't know if the temperature thing would have worked on me.


Self preservation, that is a perfect description of what it feels like. I remember many years ago my wife saying that a woman's libido rises as she ages. I am sure that came out of a talk of me questioning what the problem was. It is amazing how that was imprinted in my brain for this many years. But, here we are, I in my early forties, her at the front door of 40 and nothing has changed. I remember praying that my drive would be non existent because I couldn't deal with it. Well, as I have aged, it has naturally happened, but it is still there. So, I have tried to keep myself busy with music and such, but I still have to be at home. Our kids have kept us busy with soccer, dance, band, etc..., but I never wanted it to take over. I love my children dearly, but sometimes in the chaos of life, they take over.

We are going to the drive-in tonight, which is about an hour away. It should be fun, though I am not even sure what we are seeing. We will probably get back at 2:00am. At least I can sleep late! Sunday night I am playing at a different church for a special function, so that will take up about 5 hours. Busy, busy, busy!!!

Again, I can't thank you enough for listening and letting me know your own path in your relationship, and giving me a female perspective. It is so nice to know that I am not a freak for wanting the closeness and warmth of my wife. It is sad when I have better hugs from my guy friends/bandmates than my wife. I have kept this bottled up for so long, not talking to ANYONE. So, on that note I will continue to cool off, because I am so tired of the denial, lack of excitement, and stress it causes me. We will see how this goes in hopes that maybe she will come around to realizing that it is good for the both of us and that it can make everything in life so much easier to deal with. 

I have to work now, so I will check back later....


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## mommy2 (Oct 27, 2009)

Mary35-

Thank you for posting - hopefully it helps some couples out. I have been married 15 yrs and many things you describe are me to a T. I was the wife not wanting sex. As others described I had resentment, anger, hormonal issues, etc. All things that led to NOT wanting sex. Didn't realize, couldn't see that my H needed that to show and feel loved. Not that he just needed laid. I accused him of groping me (when he was trying to show me some kind of physical love), I did the mechanical sex thing, the sigh, the are you almost done yet? Sadly ALL of that - guilty and it sickens me. 

We have reconnected intimately and it's fantastic - our marriage is incredible. We both want to do things for each other versus being so ticked off at one another and not giving a rat's a$$ if they were mad, upset, etc. I too find myself horny ALOT. Sad that I missed out on all this great sex!!

However, my revelation wasn't as positive as yours or others. I realized this after it was too late. I realized this after my H told me he was having an affair with a friend. Fortunately, it was short lived (less than 2 months) and once he told me (it was discovered by her H) it was over. NO contact, etc. since. 

Sadly, during some of our many arguments he had said, if you are unwilling to have sex with me, I will find someone who will or I will get it else where. He usually said in fits of rage so I thought they were just threats. In fits of rage, I usually said good, go for it or I'll give you the $$ - go downtown. UGLY. Nothing either of us are proud of. 

As you mentioned and what I didn't GET is that my rejecting him sexually, he thought I didn't love him. Men equate sex with love. Women equate other things - like helping with the kids, helping with the house, etc. As many has mentioned here. We obviously weren't communicating and it was a down hill spiral.

So, the GOOD thing is, like you and others - I GET IT NOW. (both mentally understanding and physically "getting" it! :rofl

Still lots of regrets, on my part for time lost and for what happened to us. Regrets on his part for doing what he did, for being so low and allowing the OW to persuade him into betraying his wife. Although I think he felt I had been betraying him for years.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Mommy2 - I am sorry for what you had to go through with your husband's affair. But at least some good came out of it and now you both can go forward and have fun making up for lost time. That is what my husband and I are doing! And we have a lot of time to make up for!!! Fortunately all are children are gone so we have a lot of time to make out ... oops I mean make up for lost time. ha ha 

I think your husband may be right - our denying them sex is a betrayal in so many ways. Most women just don't get that - I sure didn't. I don't negate how horrible it was for your husband to cheat on you. But on one hand I do understand how easy it could be for a man to fall prey to another woman coming on to him when his wife at home ignores him in this area. To be honest, I am surprised (and very grateful) that my husband did not cheat on me. I certainly was betraying him and failing him as a wife. Maybe he should have and I would have had an awakening sooner! 

We can't go back and change the past - but we can go forward and make the best of the future. I just wish there was a way to get other women to see what we have learned! 

Oh well - God willing we have years ahead full of love, sex, & happiness!!!!! And we can try to share our new found knowledge with those who are willing to learn.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Altosax

Do they still have drive-ins? lol That is so cool!

I played the clarinet in high school - many, many years ago! Is the band a hobby for you or your career?

You are so right about the children taking over - we had six and boy oh boy was it overwelming for me. Not making excuses, but I really was so tired most of the time during those years. Parenting was exhausting for me both emotionally and physically. So when my husband wanted sex - I just saw him as one more person that wanted something from me and I didn't have it to give - or at least I felt that I had nothing to give. The most important person in my life was pushed to the bottom of my priorities! He got my left-overs. It was so wrong! My husband did the same as you - just kept himself really really busy! You have given me an insight to what was actually going on his head. I feel terrible for putting him through that for so many years!!

You are definately not wrong or a freak for wanting love and warmth from your wife. You are normal! Sex for most men is how they feel love and warmth. Even though she probably does so many other things to show you she loves you - I am guessing you don't FEEL the love the same as you do when she shares herself intimately with you (and I mean share - not just endure). 

You are not alone - although I know that does not help fill the void you are feeling. You deserve to have that closeness with her, don't think otherwise! I hope she comes to realize that and can turn herself around - for both of you! She does not understand what she is missing!

Keep us posted on how the cooling off works for you! You will always have a listening ear here.


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## AltoSax4ever (Feb 23, 2011)

mary35 said:


> Altosax
> 
> Do they still have drive-ins? lol That is so cool!
> 
> I played the clarinet in high school - many, many years ago! Is the band a hobby for you or your career?


They do have a few drive-ins left, but unfortunately not many. I love backing my pickup up and facing the screen and pulling the lawn chairs out. It will be a little cool, but better than it raining.  

I started in school, typical things like concert band and marching band. I play as a hobby mostly, though I do get paid occasionally to do special functions, so maybe semi-professional. I have a paid one coming up in about a month, but most of the time I donate my time to a local church band. I am pretty serious about it though, getting up at about 4:45am to practice for an hour M-F so as not to infringe on family time. Unfortunately, I only know how to play the saxophone, my main one being alto, but also tenor and soprano. I have always wanted to learn clarinet and have told myself that I will pick up one someday to tinker around with it. The other instruments that I would love to play are the drums (my son is a drummer) and the bass (oh how I love a good bass line). 

What is funny, we did a marriage weekend where I was invited to play with free room and meals in a beautiful hotel. Well, of course it was that time of the month (which I completely understood) so we just watched TV and went to sleep. But, one of the speakers talked about sex and said exactly what you described. I was like, "that's what I have been trying to say!". This woman is a minister's wife and was very adamant about how important it was to a marriage. Well, in one ear out the other! 

I will definitely see how this weekend goes. I am not going to make any moves or expect anything and see what happens. Well, back to dealing with work related fires!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Syrum,
Well said. I agree with all that. 

If I were talking to your fiancee I would take him through the "standard" marital trajectory and explain why it is his job to avoid that. And then in simple terms what he needs to do to avoid it. 

This is not the "my marriage isn't very good but I know if I had just done what the textbooks say it would be good". 

This is the "my marriage is really strong, here is how WE got here, and this is how most people DON'T. 




Syrum said:


> Please don't get me started on the sexual revolution.
> 
> I have no mixed messages for men, I think men can be manly and sensitive. I like old fashioned gentlemen. That doesn't mean an ass or a pig, that means a real gentlemen, who will treat women well and respect them. Take into consideration what she thinks and feels, but still be man and do what needs to be done. You don't have to treat a woman badly in order to stay manly.
> 
> ...


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## sntdwn2ufrmhvn (May 20, 2010)

i always want to...apparently i have the mind of a man...and i married a man with the mind of a woman. LOL. if he's upset about anything he won't have sex, if he's tired he won't have sex, if his back even twinges he won't have sex...if he is at all stressed he won't have sex. i think people in general put too much thought into sex, and why they won't have sex...lets just freakin have sex, we can still be mad and wanna punch each other, but lets do it first lol.


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