# When is the tipping point ?



## Hungryman (Aug 11, 2013)

Send to me at some point most decide that "as unsatisfying as my sex life is, it's not worth the effort to tear it all down to start over." I have had this epiphany a couple of times during our 25 years, but the latest one seems to be the one that has me feeling the most like this is it. My LD wife has never made sex a priority in her life, not just in our marriage. The problem is, even when it's bad (more often than not), I feel like it could never feel the same with anybody else, and if she only loved me like I love her, it would be different. So my question is, at what point do those that have done so decide "this is good enough ?"


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You are clinging to an illusion of hope. I've been there, so I know what you're experiencing. I finally reached the point where things could not be_ worse_ if I left - so I did. I discovered that things can be FAR better with MANY other women. I have had several wonderful short relationships, and an even better 20 year relationship since I left my ex. There wasn't an acceptable "good enough" with my ex, and I doubt there is one for you. You CAN have a chance to be happy, but you have to take it.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

A person can love you and not have good sex with you. I suggest you separate the two. She could just as easily say if he loved me sex wouldn't matter as much.

LD is different than HD. Many times though there are underlying problems. Have you looked at anything other than I'm not happy with the sex provided?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

your actions and your behaviors are your reality and not what you say, think or feel. If you are still there and still in the relationship, then it is good enough. 

The true tipping point is when the pain of staying exceeds the fear of leaving.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

This is a tough one. At the end of the day, you have to weigh your options! Is better sex worth losing this relationship? I am sure your answer changes everyday. If she has always been this way, then you knew what you signed up for. I agree with Anastasia here about separating "love" from "good sex". Sometimes the sex isnt that great, but love and true companionship is also very valuable. 25 years leads me to believe you found a great partner aside from intimacy struggles.

Is your issue a frequency problem or quality problem?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Hungryman said:


> Send to me at some point most decide that "as unsatisfying as my sex life is, it's not worth the effort to tear it all down to start over." I have had this epiphany a couple of times during our 25 years, but the latest one seems to be the one that has me feeling the most like this is it. My LD wife has never made sex a priority in her life, not just in our marriage. The problem is, even when it's bad (more often than not), I feel like it could never feel the same with anybody else, and if she only loved me like I love her, it would be different. So my question is, at what point do those that have done so decide "this is good enough ?"


Well at least it only took you 25 YEARS to figure this out. 

@Married but Happy is completely correct. If it has not gotten better then stop smoking the hopium already. 

Sexless marriage, or almost sexless marriage, is more than enough reason to end a marriage. 

Time to get out and try and find happiness...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Here you go.

Observe the wives of Tom Cruise:

Mimi Rogers - Born 1956 (m. 1987; div. 1990)
Nicole Kidman - Born 1967 (m. 1990; div. 2001)
Katie Holmes - Born 1978 (m. 2006; div. 2012)


@Hungryman you should notice a trend above. Both people don't have to start over. One person can just be getting started. But at some point it gets to be too much to start over again. So at what age was Tom when he likely decided to both give up on marriage and not start over? Compare that to your own age and that will give you your needed answer. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Hungryman said:


> Send to me at some point most decide that "as unsatisfying as my sex life is, it's not worth the effort to tear it all down to start over." I have had this epiphany a couple of times during our 25 years, but the latest one seems to be the one that has me feeling the most like this is it. My LD wife has never made sex a priority in her life, not just in our marriage. The problem is, even when it's bad (more often than not), I feel like it could never feel the same with anybody else, and if she only loved me like I love her, it would be different. So my question is, at what point do those that have done so decide "this is good enough ?"


I guess I fit that description. 

Here's my calculus. 

Is my sex life what I would like? No.

Are my expectations reasonable? I think so.

Is my sex life bad? Not exactly. It is far too restrictive, but what she will do she does well enough.

Is my life overall bad? No.

Am I otherwise compatible with my partner? Yes, which is no small feat itself.

What would I be willing to trade for a better sexual partner? I have a wife who is fiercely dedicated, accommodating, good with money, and a generally good person. Everyone comes with baggage - what new baggage do I want to carry? 

Do I want to spend the time an effort looking for a new partner? Hell, no. I would rather live alone. 

Do I want to go through an ugly divorce, sell the house I own outright, extend my time to retirement? No.

Can I make up for my sexual needs going unmet by myself? Not completely, but to the point where the scale fell in the direction of "stay". So I adjusted my expectations accordingly, and did just that. Some here would say I was afraid. On the contrary, I believe I was very analytical.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

badsanta said:


> Observe the wives of Tom Cruise:
> 
> Mimi Rogers - Born 1956 (m. 1987; div. 1990)
> Nicole Kidman - Born 1967 (m. 1990; div. 2001)
> Katie Holmes - Born 1978 (m. 2006; div. 2012)


Wow... and he was born in 1962, so their ages when they married him were ... 31, 23, and 28? (approx)


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Cletus said:


> I guess I fit that description.
> 
> Here's my calculus.
> 
> ...


All of that is your choice... 

However I wonder about people like you... I wonder if you have ever had a relationship where the sex was really good and not restrictive??? 

Because I have had a lot of them and the one I am in now is the best ever... Maybe none of that matters to you, which is absolutely no problem for me.

Just wondering.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> All of that is your choice...
> 
> However I wonder about people like you... I wonder if you have ever had a relationship where the sex was really good and not restrictive???


I have. It was great. That marriage would not have suffered from any sexual problems, but it would have had its own challenges. TANSTAAFL.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Hungryman said:


> Send to me at some point most decide that "as unsatisfying as my sex life is, it's not worth the effort to tear it all down to start over." I have had this epiphany a couple of times during our 25 years, but the latest one seems to be the one that has me feeling the most like this is it. My LD wife has never made sex a priority in her life, not just in our marriage. The problem is, even when it's bad (more often than not), I feel like it could never feel the same with anybody else, and if she only loved me like I love her, it would be different. So my question is, at what point do those that have done so decide "this is good enough ?"


My wife doesn’t put sex high on her priorities either but she does put me on her priorities and so sex sort of comes along with the package. That’s good enough for me- she’s still willing, able, exciting and everything else I need as far as that goes.

I get the feeling you’re wanting something more extreme?

It’s one of my most coveted activities in “bringing out the tiger” buried somewhere deep in my wife’s psyche.... I get the sense that you’re trying to talk your wife into something or somehow unleash her inner tiger without cleverly wooing her and bring it out naturally...

I mean, can you really rush a woman like that??


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> A person can love you and not have good sex with you. I suggest you separate the two. She could just as easily say if he loved me sex wouldn't matter as much.
> 
> LD is different than HD. Many times though there are underlying problems. Have you looked at anything other than I'm not happy with the sex provided?


Being loved and feeling loved are two different thing. It’s incredibly difficult when two spouses speak different love languages. I agree that the OPs wife probably loves him very much in the only way she knows how. 

I think he needs to be loved in a way that he receives love.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> A person can love you and not have good sex with you. I suggest you separate the two. She could just as easily say if he loved me sex wouldn't matter as much.


Yeah, not so much. MOST People that are married want to have sex. Loving her would make no difference about the amount of sex I wanted. 

Seems that one question should maybe be why are you staying in a relationship that includes bad sex? That seems like a good question.

Are you really serious about this?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Hungryman said:


> Send to me at some point most decide that "as unsatisfying as my sex life is, it's not worth the effort to tear it all down to start over." I have had this epiphany a couple of times during our 25 years, but the latest one seems to be the one that has me feeling the most like this is it. My LD wife has never made sex a priority in her life, not just in our marriage. The problem is, even when it's bad (more often than not), I feel like it could never feel the same with anybody else, and if she only loved me like I love her, it would be different. So my question is, at what point do those that have done so decide "this is good enough ?"


Is it simply that she doesn't care about sex and isn't into it, or does she actually reject you? Rejection is a HUGE thing for the higher-desire partner (and again, I resist saying High-desire and low-desire because that places value judgements that I don't think are appropriate; higher and lower make more sense to me).

Do a google search on the Ted talk "The Sex Starved Marriage" and watch it, first, by yourself, and then with your wife. See if she finds anything to identify with. It's possible it could be a turning point.

Also, in my marriage counseling session this morning with my wife, this is one of the notes I took, regarding my wife mentioning the other day that she "tolerates" sex now and I should see that as an improvement (something that really sent my emotions flying). This is directed at her, since she can't come up with anything pleasurable about sex, from her perspective-

- Instead of focusing on yourself during sex, which gets nowhere because you get lost in thinking there's nothing to focus on, what if you focused on your husband? Ask him what he is feeling? Try to establish a connection to him, with him, drawn on that to feel better?​
Just a bit different way for her to look at things. Let her engage you by asking what you're experiencing, how things feel, what makes it special to you. And maybe she'll recognize an opportunity to feel really good about being there for you. Just a thought.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> Being loved and feeling loved are two different thing. It’s incredibly difficult when two spouses speak different love languages. I agree that the OPs wife probably loves him very much in the only way she knows how.
> 
> I think he needs to be loved in a way that he receives love.


That's easy to say but his wife isn't the one here. You recommend blowing up a 25 years marriage? How has he tried to fix it? What are the other good things. 

But my point is he thinks if she loved him then there would be better sex. There are a lot of LD spouses who love their spouse. Just because she doesn't love sex as much as he does doesn't mean she doesn't love him.

I'm not even saying he should stay I'm simply pointing out a fact. Some people confuse love and sex they are different. Especially for women. Men equate love and sex much more than women. But there are LD husbands who love their wife and aren't up for sex as often as their partner either. 

Further @Cletus and @CatholicDad are the ones actually answering his question of how did they decided something is good enough. Most others are simply trying to convince him it isn't good enough. Since I'm not a man or a HD person with a LD partner I'm not qualified to tell him how to make those decisions.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> That's easy to say but his wife isn't the one here. You recommend blowing up a 25 years marriage? How has he tried to fix it? What are the other good things.
> 
> But my point is he thinks if she loved him then there would be better sex. There are a lot of LD spouses who love their spouse. Just because she doesn't love sex as much as he does doesn't mean she doesn't love him.
> 
> ...


Just curious, is there a woman, any woman, any where in the world, the you would not defend for anything that she did??? 

I mean short of cutting her husbands head off of course, but besides that, is that a single women that you would not defend???


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

BluesPower said:


> Just curious, is there a woman, any woman, any where in the world, the you would not defend for anything that she did???
> 
> I mean short of cutting her husbands head off of course, but besides that, is that a single women that you would not defend???


Odd how you find it necessary to tell @CatholicDad that attacking others is against the rules but here you are.....

Not sure what you mean. First off, I'm not defending his wife. But do you think sex is the only expression of love? I certainly think people need to be expressive and find ways to meet their partners needs. But not everyone has even thought of this. People on this website are more tuned into this than most. In every relationship there will be one person with a higher drive than the other. 

It is a simple statement that you can love someone and not have good sex with them.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> Odd how you find it necessary to tell @CatholicDad that attacking others is against the rules but here you are.....
> 
> Not sure what you mean. First off, I'm not defending his wife. But do you think sex is the only expression of love? I certainly think people need to be expressive and find ways to meet their partners needs. But not everyone has even thought of this. People on this website are more tuned into this than most. In every relationship there will be one person with a higher drive than the other.
> 
> It is a simple statement that you can love someone and not have good sex with them.


It is the unique expression of ROMANTIC LOVE... 

You may not think so, but honestly most do...


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

Hungryman said:


> Send to me at some point most decide that "as unsatisfying as my sex life is, it's not worth the effort to tear it all down to start over." I have had this epiphany a couple of times during our 25 years, but the latest one seems to be the one that has me feeling the most like this is it. My LD wife has never made sex a priority in her life, not just in our marriage. The problem is, even when it's bad (more often than not), I feel like it could never feel the same with anybody else, and if she only loved me like I love her, it would be different. So my question is, at what point do those that have done so decide "this is good enough ?"


There is no good reason to 'tear it all down and start over' unless your wife walks out on your permanently, habitually cheats with no remorse, or is physically abusive. This is probably not your situation, which then leads to coming to grips with being a real man. Its hard!

LD Wife - welcome to the club, women's desire is contrary to ours, that is the way they were designed. Sure there are some outliers, but by and large your definition of intimacy and your wife's will be different. You can try to plug in other women, but you'll end up with the same result. So what is the solution?

I don't understand your 2nd to last sentence, but I think it boils down to confusion. This is completely understandable, all of us run into this confusion / boredom / frustration / disappointment at one point or another.

I would also challenge your final question, "this is good enough?", is that really the question? What if we change perspective?

*The real questions*
#1 - What do I really want?
#2 - What do I need to change about myself, so I can walk in victory, instead of wanting?

*The real answers*
#1 - You want the love of your wife. To be her hero. You don't want to be constantly frustrated. You desire to be attuned to her - she has a 6th sense of what your needs are and you have the same thing about her. Yes, there are times when you don't get exactly what you want, but you know fulfillment is just around the corner and sometimes you need to be a little patient. You want to be totally transparent and not feel like you have to walk on eggshells or hide feelings.

#2 - One of the first things to change is perspective. Look at the typical glass half-full / empty argument, you can apply that to anything. Do you see the good in things? Do you recognize the blessings: e.g. your wife isn't in bed for 9 months with breast cancer, you haven't had your legs amputated, you live in a country where your rights are free, bills are paid, the sun is shining...

The next change in perspective is to recognize that you can't live in the past or be consumed with waiting on the future. The task at hand is today. Live for today, make the most of today.

Then after that realize that marriage and life is a journey. What sucks today is just a challenge to get better and have a better tomorrow. We have a tendency to fixate on the end goal (e.g. I want sex every day), rather than sketching out the marathon (e.g. we weren't having sex at all, now we're having it once a week, and if things keep improving I have hope it will go to multiple times per week).

Finally, you need to decide if you will own your own shortcomings and improve them. It easy to blame our wife and say she isn't doing enough, but is our side of the sidewalk clean? Try out this checklist:

Stop masturbating, with or without porn
Don't gawk at other women, either in real life or on media
If you are having lustful thoughts, change the subject in your mind, take control of it; this can fester over time and torment you
Don't be driven by your biology, embrace your manhood and control it, don't let it control you
Love your wife well, even when you don't want to
Many will get tripped up in attempting to execute this strategy, and there is a reason for that. Or they won't understand it, and there is also a reason for that as well. This is because the power for you to do these things and become victorious in taking your marriage to the next level can only be done through 1 power source, and that is Jesus Christ. The good news is that He died for us, so that if we believe in Him, we will be in Heaven forever. When you truly believe that, you receive the Holy Spirit, which is described as 'a helper'. The Holy Spirit is a person (and also fully God) working within you to accomplish these things, because it glorifies what he created: man, woman, marriage, and sex. He created all those things, so why wouldn't you do it His way??

I tried doing it my way and failed miserably.


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