# New member into. 35/m. Married 14 years. Want out but can't.



## y5mgisi

Just another depressed guy here. No one needs to reply to this but I'm just going to try to use this as a way of possibly working through this myself by getting some of this off my chest in a reasonably safe place. So here's the short-ish version...

When we met, she was 19 and I was 21. I knew one week in that this wasn't right and I wanted out. I still want out and it's 14 years later. I can't believe I did this to my life. I was pretty happy before as a single guy. But my friends were all starting getting serious girlfriends/wives so, it was my turn also. 
I was determined to not let little annoyances ruin the relationship before it had a chance to try itself out. And I think that helped me overlook a lot of the red flags... 

She was also my first "real" relationship. I forgot that I should have had a couple learner relationships. Too late now... 

There is so many things over the years that I didn't realize were boundaries that I should have put up and that if she crossed them, I should have ended the relationship. 

I'm a definite empath and she is I think a covert narcissist. Emotionally abusive at least. She manipulated me from virtually day one. I can't believe I didn't have the wherewithal to do something about it back then. 

I feel now like I have given up virtually everything about me to fit her life. I feel basically dead since I have no friends left, I hate my job, and anything that's fun for just me to do without her, is an affront to her. And I'm a very independent person by nature... 

It's brought me so close so many times to unaliving myself. Anymore it doesn't seem like I'm actually going to take such a drastic measure. But the fantasy is ever present. 

So why haven't I left after over a decade of suicidal thoughts and endless grief? I don't want her to have to hurt. But know that if I leave, I'll be ok. On the other hand, her entire world would be destroyed. I just feel like there would be no moving on for her. If I left to save my life, it would ruin hers. 
So as near as I can tell, I'm going to have to figure out a way for me to be ok with destroying another person, to at least the level I have been destroyed. Or, stay and just figure out how to adopt a new personality and kill the old me so that I can keep going in less misery than I am in now. 

I just can't believe I did this to my life! It could have been so great this past 14 years! I'd still have at least some friends. And some ability to adjust my life. Oh well. In my next life maybe. I just hate it and I want out. I can't believe I did this to myself.


----------



## Andy1001

You are seriously depressed and need to see a medical professional immediately.


----------



## y5mgisi

Andy1001 said:


> You are seriously depressed and need to see a medical professional immediately.


Been seeing a counselor and psychiatrist for a about 5 years now. On two different antidepressants. I'm not a depressed person. I don't want to die. I just want to decide to either be ok with my situation, or decide to get out of it so I can go back to feeling normal... But the feeling of being trapped, like I feel, makes all options feel valid. I feel like I understand most husbands that sewerslide themselves instead of getting a divorce. Now when I see women post how sad that they are that their husbands take their lives I think, **** you were a majority reason why he picked that option!


----------



## Idyit

How does she respond to your mental/emotional state? Has she done counseling as well?


----------



## MJJEAN

Has your psychiatrist and/or counselor explained to you that your wife's life wouldn't be ruined if you left, that she would heal and move on, and that you deserve to be free?


----------



## y5mgisi

Idyit said:


> How does she respond to your mental/emotional state? Has she done counseling as well?


I mostly just bury it. Usually she'll just get defensive when I say something. And no she has not done any counseling. I tried to leave her once about 6 months in and she got me to come back by threatening to kill herself... Never had the balls to try again after that.


----------



## y5mgisi

Full transparency tho, she does do sweet and nice and caring things a lot. She likes to coddle. She also likes to be coddled. I like neither... Oh well.


----------



## Al_Bundy

I agree with what the others have written. I'd also add that you would probably be surprised with how well she would/will do after you are gone. She's probably not the delicate little flower that you think.


----------



## Idyit

I’ve been where you are. Wondered why I was so stinking low. Why can I not get it right with her despite trying so hard. Thought I was absolutely losing it.
Your situation sounds similar and some of the things you say pop up like yellow/red flags. I could be wrong, but narcissism is closely related to and sometimes mistakenly attributed to BPD. Do some googling about it. See if it strikes you true. (Warning. Don’t try to diagnose. Do talk to your counselor about it.)
There’s also member here who helped me immensely. @Uptown Hopefully he will see this chime in.


----------



## y5mgisi

MJJEAN said:


> Has your psychiatrist and/or counselor explained to you that your wife's life wouldn't be ruined if you left, that she would heal and move on, and that you deserve to be free?


Yes. And I have listened to books and podcasts and YouTube videos. I understand it intellectually. But I still don't seem to be able to do anything about it for fear of her hurting... I obviously have something going on in me that prevents it. 

Probably the main thing is that she doesn't have a job and hasn't for about 13 years... Against my wishes. But I guess it was too stressful for her. Too bad about how stressful my job makes me... I don't have a choice. I don't get to quit since I'm the only one paying the bills. Sure, I hate my job and want out of my job and I can't believe I have done THIS to my life also, but I have to work overtime at that job that I hate, just to pay those bills... Lol Also been here at this job for 14 years... 

I just don't think she has it in her to make a go of it on her own. 

Did I mention that her parents also live with us? And have for about the past 9-10 years or so. But that's ok cause they don't work either or contribute financially in any way. I hate them too! It works out beautifully for me... I have so many stories that I want to get off my chest about it. I just can't believe I just roasted over a decade of the prime of my life. Lost so many friends and opportunities. I wonder how many days are already taken off my life from stress alone of the last decade.


----------



## y5mgisi

Idyit said:


> I’ve been where you are. Wondered why I was so stinking low. Why can I not get it right with her despite trying so hard. Thought I was absolutely losing it.
> Your situation sounds similar and some of the things you say pop up like yellow/red flags. I could be wrong, but narcissism is closely related to and sometimes mistakenly attributed to BPD. Do some googling about it. See if it strikes you true. (Warning. Don’t try to diagnose. Do talk to your counselor about it.)
> There’s also member here who helped me immensely. @Uptown Hopefully he will see this chime in.


Thank you. I have read many books now on narcissists, covert narcissists, empaths and narcissists in relationships, etc. Most were narcissistic/borderline personality disorder aimed. Because I think that's what she has going on. And I'm trying to learn how to deal with it as an empath.


----------



## re16

Do you have kids? 35 is young, there is a lot of life left.

What did she do that was crossing boundaries during your relationship?


----------



## y5mgisi

Al_Bundy said:


> I agree with what the others have written. I'd also add that you would probably be surprised with how well she would/will do after you are gone. She's probably not the delicate little flower that you think.


It's definitely possible. I just can't seem to see it any other way.


----------



## re16

y5mgisi said:


> Did I mention that her parents also live with us? And have for about the past 9-10 years or so.


How did this come about? Did you agree together? Have you told her you don't want this situation to continue?

I am getting the feeling that she is running you over all the time and you just let her do it to avoid her blowing up at you...


----------



## y5mgisi

re16 said:


> Do you have kids? 35 is young, there is a lot of life left.
> 
> What did she do that was crossing boundaries during your relationship?


No kids. I literally started a list to start naming the things that I'm holding onto that I need to either fogive her for, or accept. I'll be trying to work on typing some of it up for my benefit of sharing getting it off my chest hopefully.


----------



## Al_Bundy

y5mgisi said:


> Yes. And I have listened to books and podcasts and YouTube videos. I understand it intellectually. But I still don't seem to be able to do anything about it for fear of her hurting... I obviously have something going on in me that prevents it.
> 
> Probably the main thing is that she doesn't have a job and hasn't for about 13 years... Against my wishes. But I guess it was too stressful for her. Too bad about how stressful my job makes me... I don't have a choice. I don't get to quit since I'm the only one paying the bills. Sure, I hate my job and want out of my job and I can't believe I have done THIS to my life also, but I have to work overtime at that job that I hate, just to pay those bills... Lol Also been here at this job for 14 years...
> 
> I just don't think she has it in her to make a go of it on her own.
> 
> Did I mention that her parents also live with us? And have for about the past 9-10 years or so. But that's ok cause they don't work either or contribute financially in any way. I hate them too! It works out beautifully for me... I have so many stories that I want to get off my chest about it. I just can't believe I just roasted over a decade of the prime of my life. Lost so many friends and opportunities. I wonder how many days are already taken off my life from stress alone of the last decade.


You should read No More Mr Nice Guy and the The Rational Male series. Obviously get professional help too. You are being used as a plowhorse yet you're worried about hurting her.


----------



## re16

From the minimal information you've provided, it sounds like she is a person that takes what she can get from every situation and is focused on what is good for her, not you and her together as a unit.

You are likely enabling this behavior by not standing up for yourself. If there are previous wrongs that she's done and essentially got away with it, then she likely feels like you are a pushover and she can do whatever she wants and bully you into accepting it.

If this is case, with no kids, you should end it and start over.


----------



## y5mgisi

re16 said:


> How did this come about? Did you agree together? Have you told her you don't want this situation to continue?
> 
> I am getting the feeling that she is running you over all the time and you just let her do it to avoid her blowing up at you...


I used to be more naive. Her parents were out of work, moderately mentally ill. We had our first house at the time and they needed a place to stay. It was supposed to only be for up to 6 months. But then when my fil became suicidal and Wack job during that time, we just let them stay. We both want them gone. But they too wouldn't be able to make it on there own as evidenced by the number of times they have been homeless... It is definitely a contender for the most miserable part of my life... Oh well. Another lesson learned. 

And yes you're 100% right. She knows I won't push back cause I'm afraid of her reaction.


----------



## y5mgisi

re16 said:


> From the minimal information you've provided, it sounds like she is a person that takes what she can get from every situation and is focused on what is good for her, not you and her together as a unit.
> 
> You are likely enabling this behavior by not standing up for yourself. If there are previous wrongs that she's done and essentially got away with it, then she likely feels like you are a pushover and she can do whatever she wants and bully you into accepting it.
> 
> If this is case, with no kids, you should end it and start over.


Seems like an accurate estimation and I agree. But can't seem to make the move. I can't decide to decide.


----------



## re16

Lay out to her what you need for the marriage to move forward, in a calm manner. Do not engage in yelling or arguing.

Let her know that you are serious. If she blows up, tell her that is exactly why you have to leave, because you are not being treated in that manner any longer.

Do you exercise / lift weights... often times that helps to get the hormones flowing to give you more ambition.... you should automatically want more out of life than what you are currently dealing with and you should feel motivated to make that happen.


----------



## MJJEAN

y5mgisi said:


> I just can't believe I just roasted over a decade of the prime of my life. Lost so many friends and opportunities.


And by staying you are continuing to waste your most precious resource. Time. I wasted 9 years in a bad marriage. I'm 22 years out, long since happily remarried, with a life full of blessings and some tragedy, and STILL kicking myself in the ass for the wasted opportunities.

Her and her parents sound like leeches. They are all grown ass adult and not your responsibility. They are their own responsibility. With you gone I am sure 3 adults can figure it out. If not, again, not your problem.


----------



## y5mgisi

This is just a quick copy paste of my list of things I didn't like. Roughly in chronological order. 

1.The first Story that comes to mind was from the first Friday we were dating. I told her I was going to hang out with the boys that night. She said, oh. I guess that’s more important than hanging out with me then. So I changed my plans to hang out with her so she wouldn’t feel bad.
2. I was trying to take it slow, and she basically pressured me to go all the way.
3. She was interested in a 3 way. And went through with it.
4. Started making out with another guy as soon as I turned my back at a party.
5. She was talking/ sexting with her ex and at least one other guy.
6. She manipulated me into going into debt to get us a hotel room for the night instead of us sleeping at our own houses.
7. She manipulated me into asking her to marry me by saying I was never going to do it and acting heart broken over it.
8. She made us open a new credit card to buy the ring she wanted.
9. She made me buy her a new car and would drive it before she even had a license.
10. When I wanted to go dirt bike riding with my friends she made it seem like I was just a terrible person for being away from her for the weekend.
11. She got a job at kmart and would cry every day before she went to work to make me feel guilty that she was doing it. It lasted about 2 weeks.
12. She convinced me she was pregnant without taking a test. And then just made it seem like she miscarried when she got her period a couple days later.
13. She would make me have sec with her more than I wanted to And then would make me out to be a bad guy when I had a tough time performing.
14. She called me her ex’s name when I got upset with her that she decided to quit her job while we were broke and just started living on our own. So everything financially has been my responsibility for the last fourteen years.
15. I attempted to leave once because of the poor treatment. She through a fit. Shoved me. Dropped a bag of my stuff ob the hood of the car from the 2nd story.
16. Then she manipulated me into coming back by sending a message that said “im sorry” which was accompanied by a dramatic picture of a knocked over bottle of pills and bullet from my gun that I had left behind.
17. When I came back she said things would be different. They were for a month or so.
18. At the cabin, She gave me pleasure (I didn’t ask for) and then was upset when I wouldn’t reciprocate due to the noise it would cause with my little brother and his little friend sleeping in the same room.She went out to the truck and started it up and reved it in the driveway. When I went out to see wtf she was doing, she told me that “when we get home, we are going to get a ****ing divorce!” All better in the morning… .
19. Made me feel bad for my frineds actions and made it clear I don’t get to hang out with him anymore.
20. Pulled some kind of ******** while we were living at moms that made me insane.
21. Made me feel bad that thanksgiving at lauras.
22. Wouldn’t let me go out with frineds by myself.
23. Constantly would keep drinking when I said I was ready to go. Totally fine with me being miserable as long as she was drunk.
24. Bout that hoodie at that concert for $50 when we were flat broke. 
25. Made me late to grandpas funeral…
26. When I told her I didn’t realize that being married was going to mean I had to get rid of so much of myself, she said, you should have realized that a long time ago.
27. Makes me feel too guilty to even ask to go hang out with any frineds.
28. Has been perfectly fine knowing my goals and dreams and just not caring that they aren’t coming true.
29. Made us stop at a hotel on the way to vegas casue she was tiered.
30. Made us stop at a hotel on way home from AZ casue she was tired.
31.Made me feel so guilty by stonewalling me when we stayed late helping jake move and then didn’t stay and go to dinner with them when I asked her to please tell me if it was important to her etc.


----------



## Anastasia6

So one week into a relationship you knew things weren't right but you married and stayed for 14 years.

This seems like a rewriting of history.

Anyways. I doubt she alone is what is making you suicidal. You need to consider your mental health and make good choices. Discuss with your counselor that you are having these feelings even on medication.

Certainly pull the plug on the marriage. 14 years is long enough.


----------



## Anastasia6

y5mgisi said:


> This is just a quick copy paste of my list of things I didn't like. Roughly in chronological order.
> 
> 1.The first Story that comes to mind was from the first Friday we were dating. I told her I was going to hang out with the boys that night. She said, oh. I guess that’s more important than hanging out with me then. So I changed my plans to hang out with her so she wouldn’t feel bad. you are never going to be happy if you don't learn to say what you want.
> 2. I was trying to take it slow, and she basically pressured me to go all the way. you are never going to be happy if you don't learn to say what you want.
> 3. She was interested in a 3 way. And went through with it. you are never going to be happy if you don't learn to say what you want.
> 4. Started making out with another guy as soon as I turned my back at a party.  Cheater red flag or 3 way partner? IF before you married why would you marry?
> 5. She was talking/ sexting with her ex and at least one other guy.  Cheater red flag or 3 way partner? IF before you married why would you marry?
> 6. She manipulated me into going into debt to get us a hotel room for the night instead of us sleeping at our own houses. you are never going to be happy if you don't learn to say what you want.
> 7. She manipulated me into asking her to marry me by saying I was never going to do it and acting heart broken over it. you are never going to be happy if you don't learn to say what you want.
> 8. She made us open a new credit card to buy the ring she wanted. you are never going to be happy if you don't learn to say what you want.
> 9. She made me buy her a new car and would drive it before she even had a license. you are never going to be happy if you don't learn to say what you want.
> 10. When I wanted to go dirt bike riding with my friends she made it seem like I was just a terrible person for being away from her for the weekend. you are never going to be happy if you don't learn to say what you want.
> 11. She got a job at kmart and would cry every day before she went to work to make me feel guilty that she was doing it. It lasted about 2 weeks.
> 12. She convinced me she was pregnant without taking a test. And then just made it seem like she miscarried when she got her period a couple days later.
> 13. She would make me have sec with her more than I wanted to And then would make me out to be a bad guy when I had a tough time performing. you are never going to be happy if you don't learn to say what you want.
> 14. She called me her ex’s name when I got upset with her that she decided to quit her job while we were broke and just started living on our own. So everything financially has been my responsibility for the last fourteen years.
> 15. I attempted to leave once because of the poor treatment. She through a fit. Shoved me. Dropped a bag of my stuff ob the hood of the car from the 2nd story.
> 16. Then she manipulated me into coming back by sending a message that said “im sorry” which was accompanied by a dramatic picture of a knocked over bottle of pills and bullet from my gun that I had left behind.
> 17. When I came back she said things would be different. They were for a month or so.
> 18. At the cabin, She gave me pleasure (I didn’t ask for) and then was upset when I wouldn’t reciprocate due to the noise it would cause with my little brother and his little friend sleeping in the same room.She went out to the truck and started it up and reved it in the driveway. When I went out to see wtf she was doing, she told me that “when we get home, we are going to get a ****ing divorce!” All better in the morning… .
> 19. Made me feel bad for my frineds actions and made it clear I don’t get to hang out with him anymore.
> 20. Pulled some kind of ****** while we were living at moms that made me insane.
> 21. Made me feel bad that thanksgiving at lauras.
> 22. Wouldn’t let me go out with frineds by myself.
> 23. Constantly would keep drinking when I said I was ready to go. Totally fine with me being miserable as long as she was drunk.
> 24. Bout that hoodie at that concert for $50 when we were flat broke.
> 25. Made me late to grandpas funeral…
> 26. When I told her I didn’t realize that being married was going to mean I had to get rid of so much of myself, she said, you should have realized that a long time ago.
> 27. Makes me feel too guilty to even ask to go hang out with any frineds.
> 28. Has been perfectly fine knowing my goals and dreams and just not caring that they aren’t coming true.
> 29. Made us stop at a hotel on the way to vegas casue she was tiered.
> 30. Made us stop at a hotel on way home from AZ casue she was tired.
> 31.Made me feel so guilty by stonewalling me when we stayed late helping jake move and then didn’t stay and go to dinner with them when I asked her to please tell me if it was important to her etc.


I just stopped copying and pasting at one point. You are blaming her for many of the actions you ultimately took.

Work with your therapist to actually say what you want and enforce it. If you don't want to have sex don't have sex. If you dont' want to open a credit card don't open a credit card.

Get a lawyer and get divorced. Work on yourself. You are ripe pickings for the next person who comes along and tells you what to do. Take responsibility for your own life and choices.


----------



## re16

Yep, time to shut it down. I feel like you had a hand in some of this, if anything by allowing yourself to be treated so poorly...

That said though, you are responsible for you and no one else is. You are responsible for achieving your goals and dreams.

A lot of people's first relationships are like this, but everyone else ends them pretty quickly.... You probably should have ended this at about week 1, but I think you know that.

What was the reasoning you stuck around - she was hot?


----------



## Diana7

y5mgisi said:


> I mostly just bury it. Usually she'll just get defensive when I say something. And no she has not done any counseling. I tried to leave her once about 6 months in and she got me to come back by threatening to kill herself... Never had the balls to try again after that.


You cant let her manipulation force you to stay. Having her messed up parents living there must be taking its toll on you as well. 
Its impossible to understand why you married her when you knew within a week she wasnt right but never mind. 

What do your counsellor and psychiatrist say about your marriage situation? 

Oh and BTW, millions upon millions survive divorce, she will not have her whole life destroyed.


----------



## y5mgisi

Anastasia6 said:


> So one week into a relationship you knew things weren't right but you married and stayed for 14 years.
> 
> This seems like a rewriting of history.
> 
> Anyways. I doubt she alone is what is making you suicidal. You need to consider your mental health and make good choices. Discuss with your counselor that you are having these feelings even on medication.
> 
> Certainly pull the plug on the marriage. 14 years is long enough.


You are definitely correct. And I do blame myself and take responsibility for allowing all this to take place instead of standing up for myself.


----------



## y5mgisi

re16 said:


> Yep, time to shut it down. I feel like you had a hand in some of this, if anything by allowing yourself to be treated so poorly...
> 
> That said though, you are responsible for you and no one else is. You are responsible for achieving your goals and dreams.
> 
> A lot of people's first relationships are like this, but everyone else ends them pretty quickly.... You probably should have ended this at about week 1, but I think you know that.
> 
> What was the reasoning you stuck around - she was hot?


You are also definitely right. It was pretty much a mutual destruction of my life to make hers as good as possible. 

She was fairly attractive when we got together. She quickly gained a lot of weight(currently about 250lb) and has struggled to get her binge eating under control. 

The reason I stayed, and continue to so far, is 100% my brain making me think it will be too emotionally devastating for her and thereby seems to be against my intuition because I will want for her to not hurt. 🤷🏻‍♂️ I don't understand it but in some inexplicable way, I do know why I can't seem to do it to her. Just doesn't seem fair to make a person hurt in a way that seems like it's going to be beyond hurt for her. I feel like it would be a fate worse than death to her and I somehow feel like I can't do that to someone! That's really the only thing keeping me around. I don't want to be the one to reduce someone to rubble. Which is ironic because I feel like that's what is happening to me... 

It's not money, the house, any keepsakes, etc. I could light all that on fire and walk away with nothing in my pockets save maybe for my ID and be just fine. But I can't seem to let my brain do the same to her.


----------



## Diana7

y5mgisi said:


> You are also definitely right. It was pretty much a mutual destruction of my life to make hers as good as possible.
> 
> She was fairly attractive when we got together. She quickly gained a lot of weight(currently about 250lb) and has struggled to get her binge eating under control.
> 
> The reason I stayed, and continue to so far, is 100% my brain making me think it will be too emotionally devastating for her and thereby seems to be against my intuition because I will want for her to not hurt. 🤷🏻‍♂️ I don't understand it but in some inexplicable way, I do know why I can't seem to do it to her. Just doesn't seem fair to make a person hurt in a way that seems like it's going to be beyond hurt for her. I feel like it would be a fate worse than death to her and I somehow feel like I can't do that to someone! That's really the only thing keeping me around. I don't want to be the one to reduce someone to rubble. Which is ironic because I feel like that's what is happening to me...
> 
> It's not money, the house, any keepsakes, etc. I could light all that on fire and walk away with nothing in my pockets save maybe for my ID and be just fine. But I can't seem to let my brain do the same to her.


Its your decision but your life is being so badly affected by this. No it wouldnt be a fate worse than death to her, she already knows that you are only there because of her threats.


----------



## y5mgisi

Diana7 said:


> You cant let her manipulation force you to stay. Having her messed up parents living there must be taking its toll on you as well.
> Its impossible to understand why you married her when you knew within a week she wasnt right but never mind.
> 
> What do your counsellor and psychiatrist say about your marriage situation?
> 
> Oh and BTW, millions upon millions survive divorce, she will not have her whole life destroyed.


I was manipulated into asking her. Something obviously wrong with me to have let all this happen. I can't explain it. 
Counselors say basically the same thing. Like it must be exhausting and it all sounds like so much to deal with and that I need to talk to her and set it all straight. Or leave. So far I haven't had the courage to do it.

Im obviously messed up to have let this all happen. And I think it's the same way that I'm messed up that's not letting me leave or stand up for myself. I think they think the same way you guys do, and the same way my rational part of my brain thinks about it. It's me and my brain that's the issue here way more than her! 

Her parents living with us has been an incredible struggle for me...

And she might move on just fine. But it's impossible for me to imagine it that way obviously...


----------



## y5mgisi

Diana7 said:


> Its your decision but your life is being so badly affected by this. No it wouldnt be a fate worse than death to her, she already knows that you are only there because of her threats.


I just can't imagine any way for her to make it on her own. Maybe if I could it would let me go. But seeing in my mind that she has no options for life if I go has me trapped. There is obviously something keeping me from doing the calculations correctly in my mind. Something seems skewed to make me choose things not out of intuition but necessity.


----------



## Diana7

y5mgisi said:


> I just can't imagine any way for her to make it on her own. Maybe if I could it would let me go. But seeing in my mind that she has no options for life if I go has me trapped. There is obviously something keeping me from doing the calculations correctly in my mind. Something seems skewed to make me choose things not out of intuition but necessity.


Of course she has options, everyone does. She is a highly manipulative and controlling person. She will manage. She can work like anyone else.

I asked this before but what do your counsellor and psychiatrist say about this situation?


----------



## Diana7

y5mgisi said:


> I was manipulated into asking her. Something obviously wrong with me to have let all this happen. I can't explain it.
> Counselors say basically the same thing. Like it must be exhausting and it all sounds like so much to deal with and that I need to talk to her and set it all straight. Or leave. So far I haven't had the courage to do it.
> 
> Im obviously messed up to have let this all happen. And I think it's the same way that I'm messed up that's not letting me leave or stand up for myself. I think they think the same way you guys do, and the same way my rational part of my brain thinks about it. It's me and my brain that's the issue here way more than her!
> 
> Her parents living with us has been an incredible struggle for me...
> 
> And she might move on just fine. But it's impossible for me to imagine it that way obviously...


If/when you leave, I would recommend that you pack your stuff when they are all out and just go. You may be at risk if you tell her and pack with her there. Make arrangements for a place to stay, dont tell her what you are doing or where you are going. The block all calls, texts and emails. She will make all her threats again and do all she can to manipulate you to go back.


----------



## MJJEAN

y5mgisi said:


> And she might move on just fine. But it's impossible for me to imagine it that way obviously...


Probably because you've literally spent your entire adult life being used and manipulated by her. You literally have no experience in how relationships end and people move on, so to your mind that isn't a thing. The reality is that most people fall in love, break up, heal, start over, and fall in love again at least a few times in their lives. Breaking up is, basically, a normal and common occurrence. Just like anyone else her feelings may be hurt, she may panic at the idea of having to actually be an adult, but she'll get over it and move on because that's what people do.



y5mgisi said:


> But seeing in my mind that she has no options for life if I go has me trapped.


She does have options. The same options every other grown person on the planet has. She can suck it up and get a job, live within her means, and make her parents help, for one.

You're making excuses to stay in a miserable situation. She and her parents are adults and not your responsibility any more than I am. They are their own responsibility.


----------



## jlg07

y5mgisi said:


> I mostly just bury it. Usually she'll just get defensive when I say something. And no she has not done any counseling. I tried to leave her once about 6 months in and she got me to come back by threatening to kill herself... Never had the balls to try again after that.


Her threatening that is PURE manipulation -- you realize that, yes?
SO -- start working ON YOURSELF. DO things that YOU have always wanted to do. You need to push back against her railing at you -- you allow HER to continue to manipulate you and you need to take your life back. You doing this may actually get HER to see how important you are in her life -- so DO that, ok?


----------



## jlg07

y5mgisi said:


> This is just a quick copy paste of my list of things I didn't like. Roughly in chronological order.
> 
> 1.The first Story that comes to mind was from the first Friday we were dating. I told her I was going to hang out with the boys that night. She said, oh. I guess that’s more important than hanging out with me then. So I changed my plans to hang out with her so she wouldn’t feel bad.
> 2. I was trying to take it slow, and she basically pressured me to go all the way.
> 3. She was interested in a 3 way. And went through with it.
> 4. Started making out with another guy as soon as I turned my back at a party.
> 5. She was talking/ sexting with her ex and at least one other guy.
> 6. She manipulated me into going into debt to get us a hotel room for the night instead of us sleeping at our own houses.
> 7. She manipulated me into asking her to marry me by saying I was never going to do it and acting heart broken over it.
> 8. She made us open a new credit card to buy the ring she wanted.
> 9. She made me buy her a new car and would drive it before she even had a license.
> 10. When I wanted to go dirt bike riding with my friends she made it seem like I was just a terrible person for being away from her for the weekend.
> 11. She got a job at kmart and would cry every day before she went to work to make me feel guilty that she was doing it. It lasted about 2 weeks.
> 12. She convinced me she was pregnant without taking a test. And then just made it seem like she miscarried when she got her period a couple days later.
> 13. She would make me have sec with her more than I wanted to And then would make me out to be a bad guy when I had a tough time performing.
> 14. She called me her ex’s name when I got upset with her that she decided to quit her job while we were broke and just started living on our own. So everything financially has been my responsibility for the last fourteen years.
> 15. I attempted to leave once because of the poor treatment. She through a fit. Shoved me. Dropped a bag of my stuff ob the hood of the car from the 2nd story.
> 16. Then she manipulated me into coming back by sending a message that said “im sorry” which was accompanied by a dramatic picture of a knocked over bottle of pills and bullet from my gun that I had left behind.
> 17. When I came back she said things would be different. They were for a month or so.
> 18. At the cabin, She gave me pleasure (I didn’t ask for) and then was upset when I wouldn’t reciprocate due to the noise it would cause with my little brother and his little friend sleeping in the same room.She went out to the truck and started it up and reved it in the driveway. When I went out to see wtf she was doing, she told me that “when we get home, we are going to get a ****ing divorce!” All better in the morning… .
> 19. Made me feel bad for my frineds actions and made it clear I don’t get to hang out with him anymore.
> 20. Pulled some kind of ****** while we were living at moms that made me insane.
> 21. Made me feel bad that thanksgiving at lauras.
> 22. Wouldn’t let me go out with frineds by myself.
> 23. Constantly would keep drinking when I said I was ready to go. Totally fine with me being miserable as long as she was drunk.
> 24. Bout that hoodie at that concert for $50 when we were flat broke.
> 25. Made me late to grandpas funeral…
> 26. When I told her I didn’t realize that being married was going to mean I had to get rid of so much of myself, she said, you should have realized that a long time ago.
> 27. Makes me feel too guilty to even ask to go hang out with any frineds.
> 28. Has been perfectly fine knowing my goals and dreams and just not caring that they aren’t coming true.
> 29. Made us stop at a hotel on the way to vegas casue she was tiered.
> 30. Made us stop at a hotel on way home from AZ casue she was tired.
> 31.Made me feel so guilty by stonewalling me when we stayed late helping jake move and then didn’t stay and go to dinner with them when I asked her to please tell me if it was important to her etc.


So she was cheating on you? Why did you accept that? Look the past is the past and there is no changing that but YOU have to change YOUR attitude and life. You CANNOT control her. If she complains about you doing something say, well this is something I need to do, so sorry but I am going to do that. DO NOT fear her reaction -- it is simply her trying to manipulate you. Once you understand that, and stand UP to that, you won't fear her reactions any more.
Also, LOCK up your gun and ammo -- while it is a manipulation what she did, you really DON'T want any hassles with that being available to someone who is not licensed to use it.

Also, SHE is an adult and will have to deal with things -- that is on HER, not you.

Look, YOU are the only person who can get you OUT of this. Have you suggested to her Marriage Counseling? If you want to give it your all, try that. If SHE decides no, then what can you do?


----------



## y5mgisi

Do appreciate all the replies. Taking time out of your lives to help some dumb dumb who would evidently rather die than put someone through a hell that I'm projecting onto them. It's crazy. It's part of what makes me feel helpless I guess too. That it makes me feel insane to stay. I feel like I know to leave but some, as of yet inaccessible part of me has me chained in a way that seems insurmountable to conceive of a way to get out of the chains.


----------



## jlg07

You aren't a dumb dumb. You love (loved?) her and you don't want to hurt her. That is a good person.
BUT you can't give up everything in your life to appease her manipulations -- YOU are allowing that.
How do you get out of the chains -- start doing what YOU want -- see your friends, do some hobbies, start working out -- whatever YOU like in your life.


----------



## y5mgisi

Another quick note since people seem to care. I have spent the past probably 3-4 years trying to do all kinds of pretty heavy duty self improvement work and try to get myself to feel less stuck. And honestly it has helped bring me up from my lowest lows. Only just but it has helped noticeably. 
Mostly with recognizing what I'm feeling in a moment and that it can be labeled as whatever label I want to put on it. And I can say something that I think might upset her and I can just allow her to be upset. It can be her deal more than I used to let it. 
So that's hard too. That it feels like maybe I'm making enough strides that things will work out? I mean, she seems like she cares a lot of the time. I feel like she actually loves me and does feel bad about how she is. She claims to appreciate my working on myself and encourages it. She seems to try to implement some self improvement strategies also. We talk about more now than before. So that kind of throws me off too. Or are we both just bread crumbing me along? I am having a hard time deciding that... 

There are many positives. She's not a full blown psychopath. I think she just also has a fair bit traumas that manifest in her behaving the way she does sometimes. She is pretty good about taking care of a majority of the household chores. Not an A+ performance. But she gets a passing grade month to month... Lol she does virtually all of the grocery shopping and trys to be thrifty with her purchases. Mostly... Lol she does virtually all of the laundry including folding and putting it away. She does virtually all of the cooking and she's a good cook, but also more than willing to bail on that chore and send me to McDonald's again. But she does seem to enjoy cooking good meals meant for me to enjoy. She's generally thoughtful and considerate, as long as it's what she feels like being that way towards. 

But I'm the one that scrubs the toilets, makes the phone calls, deals with inconveniences, etc. The hard stuff gets passed along to me. 

The therapists usually say like, "wow, that sounds like a lot" they say I should ask her to go to couples counseling and I tell them I'm too scared to ask because if I do, I feel like she is going to think that divorce is on the horizon and get upset and weird and defensive about it. That feels like it would make things worse for me by her crying and making me feel like a horrible person for making her feel like the world is ending. So it's not worth it. 
They also tell me the same thing you guys have told me. And I say to them that I've already told myself the same things and still doesn't seem to matter. 

I use this analogy all the time and it goes like, when do you feel the best? It's when you eat right and exercise! What are you going to do tonight? Eat a cheeseburger and sit on the couch! 

I know better. I understand it all intellectually. And still bound by this unexplainable force to make a different decision anyway.


----------



## Prodigal

y5mgisi said:


> That feels like it would make things worse for me by her crying and making me feel like a horrible person for making her feel like the world is ending. So it's not worth it.


First things first: Fire your counselor and psychiatrist. They're not working. You remain stuck. Granted, they can't "unstick" you, but they should be providing you with the tools to navigate this hot mess so you don't end up sucking down a bullet.

One thing I don't understand here. Nobody seems to be taking ownership of their feelings. "She makes me feel like [fill in the blank]." "I'm afraid I'll make her feel [fill in the blank here]." 

It strikes me that your main/primary issue is you feel responsible for how she feels, the choices she makes, her lifestyle, etc. Not yours to own. Just a hunch, but if you found a good counselor who could get you to dig in really deep to find out why you feel you are responsible for how others feel, you might get free of what is an illogical fear. 

Something to consider ...


----------



## Tex X

You sure lucked into a family of vampires didn't you? 35 is still very young to have a great life, and you don't have kids with this woman. I would run like my ass was on fire!


----------



## re16

y5mgisi said:


> Or are we both just bread crumbing me along?


Yes, this is exactly what is happening.



y5mgisi said:


> I think she just also has a fair bit traumas that manifest in her behaving the way she does sometimes


Here you are making your own excuses for her behavior.



y5mgisi said:


> She's generally thoughtful and considerate, as long as it's what she feels like being that way towards.


She is in control of her behavior, and she is also in control when she freaks out on you, because it works due to you letting it work.



y5mgisi said:


> I feel like she is going to think that divorce is on the horizon and get upset and weird and defensive about it. That feels like it would make things worse for me by her crying and making me feel like a horrible person for making her feel like the world is ending. So it's not worth it.


She has no problem making you feel horrible but you don't want to rock the boat even slightly.



I think all of this comes down to a knight in shining armor syndrome (KISA), you come riding in to save the day and would never let her down. There is no room for you stand up for yourself in the dynamic you've created. The scales are always tipped in her favor, due to your passivity. This whole situation is on you. You allowed it start, allowed it to become what it has, and you are not doing anything to stop it. You can only be taken advantage of if you allow it to happen.

You need to change your behavior. Does that include divorcing a person who can behave so selfishly and toxicly toward you? Highly likely it does... you should have never been with her in the first place.

Have the tough conversation and get the ball rolling. You putting it off is just delaying the ineveitable and prolonging your own pain.


----------



## jonty30

y5mgisi said:


> Just another depressed guy here. No one needs to reply to this but I'm just going to try to use this as a way of possibly working through this myself by getting some of this off my chest in a reasonably safe place. So here's the short-ish version...
> 
> When we met, she was 19 and I was 21. I knew one week in that this wasn't right and I wanted out. I still want out and it's 14 years later. I can't believe I did this to my life. I was pretty happy before as a single guy. But my friends were all starting getting serious girlfriends/wives so, it was my turn also.
> I was determined to not let little annoyances ruin the relationship before it had a chance to try itself out. And I think that helped me overlook a lot of the red flags...
> 
> She was also my first "real" relationship. I forgot that I should have had a couple learner relationships. Too late now...
> 
> There is so many things over the years that I didn't realize were boundaries that I should have put up and that if she crossed them, I should have ended the relationship.
> 
> I'm a definite empath and she is I think a covert narcissist. Emotionally abusive at least. She manipulated me from virtually day one. I can't believe I didn't have the wherewithal to do something about it back then.
> 
> I feel now like I have given up virtually everything about me to fit her life. I feel basically dead since I have no friends left, I hate my job, and anything that's fun for just me to do without her, is an affront to her. And I'm a very independent person by nature...
> 
> It's brought me so close so many times to unaliving myself. Anymore it doesn't seem like I'm actually going to take such a drastic measure. But the fantasy is ever present.
> 
> So why haven't I left after over a decade of suicidal thoughts and endless grief? I don't want her to have to hurt. But know that if I leave, I'll be ok. On the other hand, her entire world would be destroyed. I just feel like there would be no moving on for her. If I left to save my life, it would ruin hers.
> So as near as I can tell, I'm going to have to figure out a way for me to be ok with destroying another person, to at least the level I have been destroyed. Or, stay and just figure out how to adopt a new personality and kill the old me so that I can keep going in less misery than I am in now.
> 
> I just can't believe I did this to my life! It could have been so great this past 14 years! I'd still have at least some friends. And some ability to adjust my life. Oh well. In my next life maybe. I just hate it and I want out. I can't believe I did this to myself.


Delete


----------



## Prodigal

jonty30 said:


> If you want out of the marriage, you have to lay plans. Set aside a bit of money every payday, even if all you can do is take it out the grocery bill. Your husband will not likely notice about the cost of groceries.


The OP is the husband. He is having issues with his wife. Thus, "Your WIFE will not likely notice about [sic] the cost of groceries."

@jonty30 - Perhaps you should consider not posting this much. It seems to be affecting your cognition.


----------



## jonty30

Prodigal said:


> The OP is the husband. He is having issues with his wife. Thus, "Your WIFE will not likely notice about [sic] the cost of groceries."
> 
> @jonty30 - Perhaps you should consider not posting this much. It seems to be affecting your cognition.


I will delete. I obviously misread it.


----------



## In Absentia

35, no kids. Just get out. What's more important? Your well being comes first.


----------



## Fly With Me

The problem with the narcissist/empath story is it makes you the victim and powerless and her the big bad. You've already acknowledged she's not all bad and likely you are not all good. You both got something out of this relationship and you both took from eachother. It's not as simple as selfless/ selfish or controller/controlled. Margret Paul from Inner Bonding explains the dynamic really well and compassionately. Her podcast is worth a listen.

Have a read up on codependence.

If you tell her the truth and stand up for yourself and either leave or tell her you want to because you are utterly misrable it will destroy her but it's a version of her that needs to die. Then she gets to decide if she will take the opportunity to become a person of agency in the world or not. You don't get to make that decision for her. Maybe underneath the manipulation and control and trauma she really loves you and it will give her the opportunity to dig deep and change. Maybe she won't. You dont get to make that decision for her. This situation is as bad for her as it is for you! (Ask me how I know!)

You are both powerful people with more capacity than you realise. Currently you are suppressing who you are which enables her to suppress who she is. She will be happier the otherside of this (not during) because she gets a husband who is fully himself and who requires her to be more fully herself. OR she will be just as miserable likely with someone else who enables her as you have done. And you still get to be fully yourself without her.

You need to figure out what you are getting because you are getting something that's why you can't leave/stand up for yourself. Then deal with the fear of losing that thing. The inner bonding podcast will probably really help you with that.

All the best with it. Don't go back to sleep. Your life will be exponentially better the otherside of this but the during is hard.


----------



## MJJEAN

y5mgisi said:


> But I'm the one that scrubs the toilets, makes the phone calls, deals with inconveniences, etc. The hard stuff gets passed along to me.


Please explain to my why you're the only person working and supporting THREE GROWN ADULTS and you still come home to do chores?

Seriously. THREE GROWN ADULTS can't get the entirety of housework done while you are at work to support their lazy mooching asses? My mother was born disabled. Only her head and torso were normally shaped. She managed to make sure the house AND us kids were in good shape before dad got home. You got THREE adults, zero children, and they can't even take care of the cleaning? WT ACUTAL F?!?!?!?!

Wanna know why she sometimes does, as you've described, what I consider the bare minimum? Because $$$$$. She is putting in pathetically minimal effort to keep her spineless ATM on the hook supporting her and her parents.

If you can't man up and walk away from the lot of them then at least get the paperwork, file it, and formally evict her parents. Maybe you'll get lucky and she'll go with them. Hell, at this point, were I you, I may be _trying_ to find her an affair partner in hopes she'd leave and take the other deadbeats with her.


----------



## Blondilocks

It sounds like you are scared to death of this woman. All of those "she made me" statements are pathetic. 

There are at least 50 ways to leave a lover, so pick one. You are preventing her from becoming a full-fledged adult by doing everything for her. Hell, you even try to manage her emotions for her. I have news for you - you aren't as important to her as you think. You are a paycheck. Period. 

Your wife will figure out how to buy her cases of Twinkies all on her own. Even her parents will figure out how to get themselves fed and housed when you stop jumping up and volunteering.

Again, you are not this woman's savior. Stop pumping yourself up by claiming she can't survive without you. At this point you are a willing, self-made martyr.


----------



## y5mgisi

I'll try to reply to everyone, but thanks you guys for the advice. I definitely know (and beat myself up all the time for) the roll I have played in this. I put much more of the blame on me than her. I keep wanting to run, and then keep staying because of the fear that things will be worse off for everyone after the dust of a divorce settles.


----------



## Diana7

y5mgisi said:


> I'll try to reply to everyone, but thanks you guys for the advice. I definitely know (and beat myself up all the time for) the roll I have played in this. I put much more of the blame on me than her. I keep wanting to run, and then keep staying because of the fear that things will be worse off for everyone after the dust of a divorce settles.


How will things be worse off for you after a divorce? You can get back to being mentally healthy and happy.


----------



## ccpowerslave

y5mgisi said:


> I keep wanting to run, and then keep staying because of the fear that things will be worse off for everyone after the dust of a divorce settles.


Who is the “everyone” and why do you care?

If you have been unhappy to the point where you were ready to punch your own ticket, maybe it’s time to think of yourself a little bit and what is good for you not other people.


----------



## uwe.blab

Diana7 said:


> Its your decision but your life is being so badly affected by this. No it wouldnt be a fate worse than death to her, she already knows that you are only there because of her threats.


Do you think it is ok to divorce in this situation? It is not what God wants. And yes, I am being serious.


----------



## CrAzYdOgLaDy

I have a question. Are you happy in your marriage?


----------



## Diana7

uwe.blab said:


> Do you think it is ok to divorce in this situation? It is not what God wants. And yes, I am being serious.


I think that she is abusive and is making you ill. I can't see how God would expect you to be in a marriage that is literally putting your life at risk.
At the very least separate and see what happens.
God doesn't want to see marriages break up, but I have come to the conclusion that He understands that there are worse things than divorce. 
Maybe there is a pastor who you trust who you could go and talk to.


----------



## Marc878

You only get one life. If you want to be a martyr no one can stop you but it won’t get you a thing. They don’t care.


----------



## Evinrude58

y5mgisi said:


> Full transparency tho, she does do sweet and nice and caring things a lot. She likes to coddle. She also likes to be coddled. I like neither... Oh well.


Huh?


----------



## Evinrude58

y5mgisi said:


> Yes. And I have listened to books and podcasts and YouTube videos. I understand it intellectually. But I still don't seem to be able to do anything about it for fear of her hurting... I obviously have something going on in me that prevents it.
> 
> Probably the main thing is that she doesn't have a job and hasn't for about 13 years... Against my wishes. But I guess it was too stressful for her. Too bad about how stressful my job makes me... I don't have a choice. I don't get to quit since I'm the only one paying the bills. Sure, I hate my job and want out of my job and I can't believe I have done THIS to my life also, but I have to work overtime at that job that I hate, just to pay those bills... Lol Also been here at this job for 14 years...
> 
> I just don't think she has it in her to make a go of it on her own.
> 
> *Did I mention that her parents also live with us? And have for about the past 9-10 years or so. But that's ok cause they don't work either or contribute financially in any way.* I hate them too! It works out beautifully for me... I have so many stories that I want to get off my chest about it. I just can't believe I just roasted over a decade of the prime of my life. Lost so many friends and opportunities. I wonder how many days are already taken off my life from stress alone of the last decade.


Double Huh??????

finally read your thread.
Constant whining about:
She made you do x,y,z
She makes you feel bad by doing x,y,z
You “can’t” do x, y,z
Excuses x 1000 for why you won’t do anything to take charge of your life.

the problem isn’t her. It isn’t her parents. It’s YOU. You cannot grasp the ability to tell your wife one little two letter word: NO.
No to sex??? 
No to cuddling?
No to parents (freeloaders)
No to gifts
No to debt….

Since you blame everything in your life that’s bad on her when it is clearly in your power to control, what advice can people give you?
YOU won’t do anything to change it.
There is nothing anyone can do for you when you won’t help yourself.

You’re a victim only because you choose to be. 

So are you going to see an attorney and get help getting out of this?


----------



## manowar

You've been given great advice. maybe this video will help. All I'll say is that it's all up to you. No one is coming to save you.


----------



## Beach123

y5mgisi said:


> No kids. I literally started a list to start naming the things that I'm holding onto that I need to either fogive her for, or accept. I'll be trying to work on typing some of it up for my benefit of sharing getting it off my chest hopefully.


Get a new counselor! If the one you’ve had for that long hasn’t help you learn to have a voice and speak your truth by now - you need a new therapist!
Believe me - when someone wants to divorce you simply file and end it!
No excuses! It’s not your job to support all of them - they can learn to work!
When people want to divorce they do it! I was married 27 years and did it - you can too.
Stop living in regret.
Change is up to you! If nothing changes - nothing changes! Start changing things!
Change brings hope.


----------



## memyselfandi

IMO..you can't always play "Mr. Nice Guy" while your happiness hangs there...not being able to move forward with your life. Sometimes you just have to put it all out there..thinking of your own needs for once. She'll be fine..as she'll have to be. Thriving on you supporting all her needs, her family living with you, etc., isn't making you happy AT. ALL...and that's just a start. How long are you going to live like this while asking yourself the same questions? Have you thought about moving out for a bit to see how that goes? Again..she'll have to find a way to make it work. 

Not to sound gruesome, but what if something happened to you where you could no longer support the family anymore re being able to work, etc.? This is something the two of you could/should discuss as then she'll have to be the main breadwinner. You definitely should throw this out at her and see what her thoughts are. From there, keep them in mind and make some sort of "gameplan" re getting out of the marriage gradually. I know it sounds totally underhanded..but you need to think about yourself for once!!


----------



## y5mgisi

Thanks everyone. Sorry for the delayed responses. Truth is I think I'm trying to keep ignoring the issue... Lol

I know that this is 100% my fault and on me. This all only happened because I allowed it.

It's hard to commit to divorce when obviously, I do love her and I want her to be happy. And she does have many positive qualities. 

It seems like the easiest and best solution would just be to somehow start standing up for myself. Second to that would be divorce. It's also hard because my when I ask myself what I should do, the answer depends on what point of view within myself I'm asking the question! The parts of me that loves my freedom, my old life, thinking of possibilities that arise if I was a single person, etc, and can think analytically, screams to get the heck out asap! At all costs!

The other portion of me is an empath with love of other humans and service to others as concrete values, and views the overall goal/purpose of life is just have experience and that nothing and no experience is inherently bad. It's only the individual that puts the label of bad/good or unpleasant/pleasant on situations. That portion thinks that self sacrifice is neither being a martyr, or virtuous, or anything different in the total outcome of life and that therefore, my situation shouldn't be necessarily thought of as "bad or unpleasant" so there would be no reason to want or need to make a change.

As you can tell, I put a lot pressure on myself to figure this out. And I deal with it at the forefront of my mind most days. So is it just that self imposed pressure that I want out of and not actually the marriage? If I just knew how to stand up for myself (more importantly, if I could decide on the fly, which situations warrant standing up vs being passive),then why should I want to leave the marriage?? 

At the same time, my soul does feel like it's supposed to be free. But isn't that lack of freedom self imposed??? 

See? I think it's that I just can't even get a straight answer from myself on all this junk...


----------



## Blondilocks

You're just creating excuses because you really don't want anything to change. Until you do, enjoy living in your head and philosophizing. 

I can tell you that women do not like men who are indecisive. How do you ever get anything done?


----------



## MarmiteC

It is possible to love a person but learn they are not right for you. This was my case. A person rarely changes. Sure, they can try and make an effort for a while, but change fundamentally who they are? No.

The hardest thing I did was to walk away from someone I loved, whom I enjoyed some great times with, but I looked forward and kept moving, even when he called me 6 months later in real hurt, because I knew, fundamentally, the base reason for leaving could never change, and I needed different.

Your wife will hurt, absolutely, and she may well try something stupid, but it's not your responsibility even if she does. She needs to learn to take care of herself and you need to learn to stop enabling her behaviour and keep fuelling her excuse not to.


----------



## Beach123

Get a new therapist.
Take charge of your own life! Stop sacrificing yourself for others. 
Become strong enough to know your happiness is a priority!


----------



## jlg07

y5mgisi said:


> It seems like the easiest and best solution would just be to somehow start standing up for myself. Second to that would be divorce


You gave yourself the correct answer here. FIRST, start standing up for yourself and live the life YOU want to live. Give that time to work, but you HAVE to be consistent standing up for yourself -- 100% of the time. Don't fall back into old habits.
If that doesn't work, you have solution #2 and you can then do that know you tried.


----------



## Beach123

Stop being weak.
People can ONLY use you when YOU allow it.
Stop ALLOWING it.


----------



## y5mgisi

So far it looks like I'm still just going to continue status quo. It really sucks. But I don't seem to be capable of anything else right now. The trouble is I know she does in fact love me and that she wishes she was different. I think her and I both have various ptsd/cptsd elements at play that's fking both of us up. She can't give me what I need, and I can't fully give her what she needs. But we're so trauma bonded, and our attachment styles are like velcro.

I'm pretty sure that the single biggest issue that makes me want out is that I want to be able to go away for the weekend on a semi consistent basis to be all by myself at my favorite place to be since i was a little kid. It's a run down shack of a hunting cabin handed down from grandpa, to dad, and now to me. 

She likes to go up there too which historically is unique among women... Lol but I am the type (probably a trauma response... Lol) that likes to be fully alone most of the time. I think because I seem to constantly overthink and am always thinking about how what I'm doing will effect her. I don't want her to think she's disposable to me, and it feels like that's what she'll think of I just act in my own self interest all the time like that. So if I can be allowed to be alone to allow me to only have to cater to the needs of my own whacked out brain instead of two. Like, when she asks me what we should do for dinner, it's really hard for me to say because I want to give her the answer that would make her the most happy. 

I never ask her if she would be ok with me taking off for the weekend because I know she'll be against it. Finally, as I've been reading "stop caretaking the borderline narcissist" by margalis fjelstad, I decided a couple days ago I would ask/insist that I go to the cabin this weekend by myself. 

Needless to say, I am not not going to the cabin this weekend... When we talk about it, she just convinces me that the emotional impact for her would just be so much. So our resolution from last talk is tgst she wishes she wouldn't hate being alone so much and she feels like a loser and a bad wife that she feels instant panic at the notion of me going away even just for the weekend. As such our conclusion was that we're both going to continue to try moving the direction of the other person and that I won't push to go to the cabin alone for a while. 

Like I said, I think we're a match made in dysfunction heaven. Especially because we basically get along pretty good day to day. Even tho I'm still catering my decisions and actions to what I think will keep her happy over my instinctual choices. 

But then I can't even discern what is a reasonable amount of being there for her in that way, and what things I should choose regardless of what she feels about it. I can almost never make a choice of putting the action in the black or white category so everything is in the grey area, and because of my brain, of its in the grey area, it pretty much defaults to whatever will keep her the happiest... I got a lot of work to do... 

Oh and to the people that say stuff like, dude just leave! Or, she's just taking advantage of you. Do you not think I have the same thoughts? Do you not think my brain screams at me every day to do anything it takes to get away? How do you not get that this isn't that simple for folks like me? Don't you know how many people are in the same situation and are on the verge of unalive because they can't understand why they stay either?? Don't try to apply logic to the situation because I have too. And it makes me want to not exist that I can't get myself to trust and follow my own instincts.


----------



## Diana7

She is so unhealthily dependant on you it's unreal. How is she ever going to mature and learn to be an adult if you are always there giving her the incredible amount of support she claims to need?. 
You going away for a weekend us just what you each need, although she cant see it. 

I don't think you are going to go though, or end the marriage. If you totally go to pieces you will be no good to anyone.


----------



## jlg07

y5mgisi said:


> So far it looks like I'm still just going to continue status quo. It really sucks. But I don't seem to be capable of anything else right now. The trouble is I know she does in fact love me and that she wishes she was different. I think her and I both have various ptsd/cptsd elements at play that's fking both of us up. She can't give me what I need, and I can't fully give her what she needs. But we're so trauma bonded, and our attachment styles are like velcro.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that the single biggest issue that makes me want out is that I want to be able to go away for the weekend on a semi consistent basis to be all by myself at my favorite place to be since i was a little kid. It's a run down shack of a hunting cabin handed down from grandpa, to dad, and now to me.
> 
> She likes to go up there too which historically is unique among women... Lol but I am the type (probably a trauma response... Lol) that likes to be fully alone most of the time. I think because I seem to constantly overthink and am always thinking about how what I'm doing will effect her. I don't want her to think she's disposable to me, and it feels like that's what she'll think of I just act in my own self interest all the time like that. So if I can be allowed to be alone to allow me to only have to cater to the needs of my own whacked out brain instead of two. Like, when she asks me what we should do for dinner, it's really hard for me to say because I want to give her the answer that would make her the most happy.
> 
> I never ask her if she would be ok with me taking off for the weekend because I know she'll be against it. Finally, as I've been reading "stop caretaking the borderline narcissist" by margalis fjelstad, I decided a couple days ago I would ask/insist that I go to the cabin this weekend by myself.
> 
> Needless to say, I am not not going to the cabin this weekend... When we talk about it, she just convinces me that the emotional impact for her would just be so much. So our resolution from last talk is thst she wishes she wouldn't hate being alone so much and she feels like a loser and a bad wife that she feels instant panic at the notion of me going away even just for the weekend. As such our conclusion was that we're both going to continue to try moving the direction of the other person and that I won't push to go to the cabin alone for a while.
> 
> Like I said, I think we're a match made in dysfunction heaven. Especially because we basically get along pretty good day to day. Even tho I'm still catering my decisions and actions to what I think will keep her happy over my instinctual choices.
> 
> But then I can't even discern what is a reasonable amount of being there for her in that way, and what things I should choose regardless of what she feels about it. I can almost never make a choice of putting the action in the black or white category so everything is in the grey area, and because of my brain, of its in the grey area, it pretty much defaults to whatever will keep her the happiest... I got a lot of work to do...
> 
> Oh and to the people that say stuff like, dude just leave! Or, she's just taking advantage of you. Do you not think I have the same thoughts? Do you not think my brain screams at me every day to do anything it takes to get away? How do you not get that this isn't that simple for folks like me? Don't you know how many people are in the same situation and are on the verge of unalive because they can't understand why they stay either?? Don't try to apply logic to the situation because I have too. And it makes me want to not exist that I can't get myself to trust and follow my own instincts.


You need to get Counseling for yourself to help you deal with your PTSD and your attachment issues. You WILL NOT have a healthy relationship if you don't do that first. While YOU are doing that, SHE should do the same with her own counselor.


----------



## Resu

.


----------



## Resu

.


----------



## Resu

.


----------



## Resu

.


----------



## Resu

.


----------



## Resu

.


----------



## Resu

.


----------



## ccpowerslave

y5mgisi said:


> How do you not get that this isn't that simple for folks like me…


Every time you’re going to use a buzz word like trauma victim, PTSD, any of the maybe dozens you have used to explain behavior here; think LEAVE.

Plan, and then execute. Fixate on leaving. Really I believe you can do it, throw your buzz words in the trash and just leave.


----------



## Resu

.


----------

