# Help with EA. On the verge of separation



## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

I really need some advice about getting through an EA, separation, and moving on. Our marriage is in deep trouble, I discovered my DS was having an EA with a friend she reconnected with on Facebook, we have two young children, and we’re on the verge of separation. I’m completely on the fence about how to move on. 
To make a long story short, me and DS have been married for just over five years and like a lot of marriages, we drifted apart. We have two kids, I’m the sole bread winner and work at home, and my wife is a stay at home mom. Between financial pressures, kids, rough pregnancies, medical issues, finishing college, etc., we had a lot of love extinguishers in our life. On occasion my wife would have a “breakdown” about all the problems in our marriage. I’d promise to make changes but then we’d slip back into old habits of going on through day to day life without talking a whole lot to each other. Instead, we’d get lost in watching TV, surfing the internet, and (more for my wife) Facebook. Our love life also went away as the detachment and resentment grew. To complicate things, my wife turned to alcohol to cope with the unhappiness in our marriage. From the beginning of our relationship I tried to tell her that the way she drank was unhealthy – she had major problems with moderation and she started to become confrontational when she drank. I reached a point of becoming resentful of her and her drinking and got tired of saying anything about it to her. I understand that we both had a role in our bad marriage. My wife tried to get my attention, but then neither one of us sought counseling together or seriously worked on eliminating the love extinguishers in our marriage. 
D-day for our relationship happened in mid-July. DS had an emotional breakdown about how unhappy she was in our marriage, she was unhappy with whom she had become, and she felt trapped. This was the first time I woke up and realized that our marriage was not only in trouble, but could be ending. But rather than taking immediate action, I pretty much froze. I didn’t know what to do. I was very confused. My made an appointment with her Dr. and got switched to Prozac to help with her anxiety and depression. A few weeks later and after Ds drank two bottles of wine, we got into a pretty big argument and it became very clear that DS though our marriage was dead, she was unhappy with me, she was not in love with me, she didn’t miss me when we were apart, didn’t like coming home, she lost who she was and didn’t like who she was with me. It was a major emotional upwelling and over the next few days I tried to solve the problem with my head – I was thinking that separation and divorce would be the only way to fix the problem. Strangely though, we still shared a bed, and remained intimate over the next few weeks. I was still emotionally frozen not knowing what I needed to do to “fix” anything and not knowing how to talk about our problems (I have big issues with communicating). This lack of communication and perceived inaction made my wife extremely resentful. Finally, by the middle of August, she snapped and emotionally detached from me. 
Now enter the EA. I knew DS had reconnected a few years ago with an old school friend on Facebook. They chatted quite often on FB about kids and his failing marriage. DS was open about the communication and even asked once if it bothered me. It really didn’t. He was across the country and I trusted they were just friends. Over time I became uncomfortable as it felt she talked more with him than she did with me. Within the last 6 months or so, DS stopped talking about him. Out of a hunch, I checked our phone bill and saw she began calling him in July. I was devastated and confronted her. She denied it was anything other than a friendship. Well the next day she admitted it was more than just friends—she had feelings for the OM and there was a deep emotional connection. I told her that if we were to have any chance of reconciliation, she would have to cut it off. Eventually she reluctantly agreed. She contacted him to say goodbye and deleted him as a friend. She was pretty devastated and admitted she was doing it to show that our marriage issues were not about the EA; she was focused on all our problems that developed over the years. A week later DS went to a girlfriends for the night and I stayed with the kids. Around midnight she called me and sounded really out of it. She said she shouldn’t be calling me but then really couldn’t put any other legible thoughts together. The call ended after a few minutes and it left me confused. Again I had a hunch and checked the cell phone bill. She had called and talked to the OM 4 or 5 times that night—even right before she called me. Then she called him back after talking with me. I was so upset and furious! I called her right away and confronted her and asked her why she was calling him. She sounded very irritated with me and could not offer any answers. After talking with her I texted DS to say I was done and couldn’t fight anymore. 
I really wanted to save the marriage but it was a losing battle. We started marriage counseling but it wasn’t going well—in fact our counselor “fired” us after a few sessions as he saw no marriage to save. I did change my mind about so quickly thinking of separation and divorce. I wanted to save the marriage but I could not get any commitment to do so from DS. For a brief few days she seemed open to it, but then returned to being emotionally detached. She said she was not willing to give up the “friendship” with the DS. She says now they are “mostly friends” which tells me they are still emotionally involved. They were even serious enough that there was talk about OM moving here. I think they talk now via email and Google chat which burns me since we are not separated yet. I have tried to forgive, but can’t while we still live under the same roof and she is still in contact with OM. I have reached a point where I’m losing the energy to fight. I really want to just let her go and move on. I have been changing my life by reading, researching, exercising, getting out, and focusing on being a better parent for my children. The problem is that I’m still in love with her and am having a hard time letting go. DS just got a job offer so soon we will be separating—I don’t see any other alternative right now. I’m staying in the house we are renting and she will get an apartment. 
Now for the confusion. When we aren’t arguing about the past or the EA, we get along. In some ways we get along better then we have in a long time though there is no affection. DS says she wants to remain friends with me but I told her that is a little offensive. In a way I feel like she wants to dump the parts of me she does not like (me as a husband) and keep the friendship which she likes. I assume she can still use OM for other emotional needs. Does she just want her cake and be able to eat it too? Since separation is imminent I don’t know how to proceed with our relationship? I’d like to save the marriage, but not if she is still in contact with OM. She also still says she is not in love with me and doesn’t see that we have anything to go back to as a couple. I’m also losing energy and want to move on more and more each day. With the EA I don’t trust her and don’t want to fight a losing battle. While she has apologized for the EA and for hurting me DS says the EA has no role in the end of our marriage – it would have ended anyways. And she still gets very irritated and her body language changes when I mention the EA. For my own sake I don’t know if I need to “go dark”, do a 180, become more serious with the carrot and stick? Or just give up and move on? I want to work of kindling the love, but often my emotions get the best of me and we end up in a fight. Curiously she seems non-committal about divorcing at the moment. She sees separating as a good option (as do I now) but gives a lot of lame reasons for why we can’t file right away. Is she just stuck in the EA fog? 
Sorry about the post being longer than needed. These are obviously trying times and don’t want to end a marriage when there could still be a chance.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It seems many on TAM will recommend filing for divorce.

I will have to agree with them, one , b/c it will bring the reality of it all and put it right in her lap.

The affair is for sure having a big influence on the the marriage, so I would make it as uncomfortable and as inconvienent as possible. Again doing all this in the attemp to make her face the reality of her choices.

Do not be the fall back guy, or let her cake eat. She has no clue who this OM realy is, its all a fantasy and she will regret her dicisions. So start with the tough love approach and the sooner you show her the reality of what life will be with out you the sooner she may come to realize the grass isn't greener on the other side.

The only chance you have to save your marriage is to come to terms in letting it go, and by no means stay friends with her. Pull her out of the fog by taking the tough road in showing her you can move on with out her. Stop empowering your W to continue her A by going along with her terms. Set you own term and show her the confidence that you can move on and it will be with out her.

You are giving her a option to sit on the fence, so take it away. Sometimes you have to push them away for them to see what they can possibly lose. She may second guess her choices if she sees you moving on under your term. 

If she had her way, she can have this affair and it will not bother you at all.....you will be alright and the two of you can remain friends. WRONG, show her how painful this, and in the same breath do not beg or cry for your marriage but distance your self and fill for divorce, you can always stop the filling, but do not let her continue under her terms so she can live with her self while you suffer.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

She is still in the fog and deep in denial. If she will not end the relationship with TOM the marriage as no chance of recovering. Based on the steps you have already taken and the place she is in now, I believe the 180 would be your only hope at reconciling. Make sure she understands you are willing and want to work on the marriage but not on a greased slope. As long as TOM is involved it is a deal breaker. She may say fine and separate anyway but that may also be the jolt she needs to recognize what she is really doing. I would also suggest you read Love Must be Tough by Dobson. It follows along similar lines.

JFTR, my marriage survived my wife's EA. She was just as detached. The same fog-logic, denials and behaviors. Once I forced her to end the EA things started to get a little better. Now a couple of year later we are in a stronger and much happier marriage. If you think there is a chance, don't give up. I'm glad I didn't.


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

Thanks for the advice. I definitely plan on returning to taking the high road and focusing on myself. We're going to have overlap since we have two young kids and need to sort out 50/50 custody, day care, etc. Beyond that it may be best to make a clean, civil break and have as little contact as needed.

With the EA, it is so tricky as she fully claims our marriage would have ended anyways and it could have- she said she had already "emotionally divorced" me before she got wrapped up in the EA with the OM. She also won't fully admit how it is clouding any chance of R. And I'm sure that it complicates the matter since she was caught. 

Maybe I'm worrying too much and being too impatient. Maybe I should just let her go and move on - but it is pretty hard with the kids and still want to get through the "for better or worse". DS says that she thinks I'll never trust her and she can't live with me "spying on her". I tried to clarify privacy vs secrecy but she didn't buy into that.


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> She is still in the fog and deep in denial. If she will not end the relationship with TOM the marriage as no chance of recovering. Based on the steps you have already taken and the place she is in now, I believe the 180 would be your only hope at reconciling. Make sure she understands you are willing and want to work on the marriage but not on a greased slope. As long as TOM is involved it is a deal breaker. She may say fine and separate anyway but that may also be the jolt she needs to recognize what she is really doing. I would also suggest you read Love Must be Tough by Dobson. It follows along similar lines.
> 
> JFTR, my marriage survived my wife's EA. She was just as detached. The same fog-logic, denials and behaviors. Once I forced her to end the EA things started to get a little better. Now a couple of year later we are in a stronger and much happier marriage. If you think there is a chance, don't give up. I'm glad I didn't.


Any time I have tried to "force" the issue with ending contact she does not respond well and I seem to push her further away. Even her parents said that an ultimatum would not work.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Have you exposed to the OM's wife?


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

bryanp said:


> Have you exposed to the OM's wife?


I forgot to add the the OM is conveniently going through divorce now too. I have no clue who she is.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

DSSM9500 said:


> Any time I have tried to "force" the issue with ending contact she does not respond well and I seem to push her further away. Even her parents said that an ultimatum would not work.


This is to be expected. That is where the 180 or LMBT comes into play. You are willing to work on the marriage but not with him in the picture. It puts into her court. Begin your exit strategy and show her you are willing to move on because of this issue.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

How did you confirm OM pending divorce? let me guess, your W told you, right?

Well I would look into this for your self. Knowledge is power so you can still make this A as inconvienent as posible....walking away from this marriage knowing you took every avenue to make it work by exposing it to others.

Yes I know it sound back @ss back wards, but my thinking is once the A is exposed and the slim chance that the OM doesn't want the drama, and breaks it off with your W then there maybe a change in the dynamics of the M for the better. 

Bottom line, look at, and use up all avenues before ending the marriage. Many easiely give up and end the M only to regret it later.

So I suggest distancing your self but do the foot work to find out what you can about OM. A part me believes that in stressing the A from the OM side may bring her out of this. Again just another avenue in making sure if divorce is the right path.

Simply put I think your making it to easy for her.


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

Yes I heard about the OM's divorce from DS. I'm inclined to believe her because I knew they had an awful marriage - she used to share stories when before the friendship between DS and OM became an EA.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

DSSM9500 said:


> Yes I heard about the OM's divorce from DS. I'm inclined to believe her because I knew they had an awful marriage - she used to share stories when before the friendship between DS and OM became an EA.


That's how OPs seduce WS's. "My life is so bad. Comfort me!" There's no telling if the things she told you are true. Informing the OMW may still help. Once he realizes that his name could be dragged through the mud, he may run back to his M. Expose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

Well I probably screwed things up last night. DS had a bad emotional day as she was mad at my parents and the reality of her needing to get an apartment was getting to her. So last night she was on edge and we ended up getting into a fight. I really tried to hold back and not argue, but DS made me so angry. Mostly we re-hashed our marriage problems but I also really unleashed on the EA. I told her how much it hurts that she continues to talk to him. How much it hurts that she has chosen a two year online relationship over our seven year relationship. I told her how screwed up it is that she talks about how bad she messed up by getting into the EA and how sorry she is to have hurt me yet she continues the EA – though she downplays the significance now. Am I off base to think that continuing to talk to the OM while we are under the same roof is disrespectful? She still claims they are most friends and they can just “turn that on an off”. Seriously? She also finally admitted that being in the EA finally gave her the courage to confront me and our dead marriage and she had D on her mind. 
It’s amazing how defensive she gets about the EA and that she deflects the blame on the failure of the marriage back on me whenever I talk about it. It’s like she is re-writing history to rationalize the EA. I mean I understand that we had a lackluster marriage and I completely own that I was not the most emotionally attentive husband. She plays lip service to that she messed up the marriage too, but then she starts hammering me and how I have invalidated all of her feelings and all the hurt I caused her doesn’t matter now because of the EA. I could not get over how badly she was lashing back at me last night. Its either because I hit home by digging in on the EA or I made her mad because I was so off base. She is also mad that when I big problems came up that I was at first open to D – I was letting my head solve the problem and not my heart. Once I thought about it I changed my mind and decided to fight for our marriage – that made her mad. 
Right now I cannot believe how far her head is up her…..you know what I mean. She complains how everyone thinks that she is the one responsible for ending the marriage and I told her “yeah”. She is the one who claims to have reached her breaking point and sees no way to “go back”. She is the one who is not committed to R. She is the one who has refused NC to end the EA. She is the one who sees leaving me and the marriage as the only way to become who she really is. She is the one who believes nothing will change in the marriage. She refuses to believe I will ever change. She is so fatalistic about any chances of R that she won’t even try. I know that I don’t have a good track record of making changes and getting into fights doesn’t give her any reason to like me. I don’t see why I even care anymore. She has made her priorities clear and just need to let her go. She is putting a deposit on an apartment today and will move out in mid-October. I’ll decide on D once we get some space away from each other and clear our heads. She is so far gone and lost in the EA fog that I’m not holding out hope.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

tell the OMW now, she deserves to know

even if they are getting a divorce she may have no idea as to the real reason and you will be providing a great service to her


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> tell the OMW now, she deserves to know
> 
> even if they are getting a divorce she may have no idea as to the real reason and you will be providing a great service to her


I don't even know her name so not sure how to do that.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

what info do you have on OM?

name, phone number, etc?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

several things to try

spokeo.com (small fee)
cidlookup.com
check his facebook page (you'd be surprised how many people leave up personal info for people to view)


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Let me say this DS, everything she is doing/saying is by the script and it’s all a bunch of BS. Don’t take any of it personally or seriously since odds are in a few months she will take it all back.


DSSM9500 said:


> Am I off base to think that continuing to talk to the OM while we are under the same roof is disrespectful? .


No, it is very disrespectful and you cannot allow it to continue. If she wants to talk to him then she needs to leave.


> She still claims they are most friends and they can just “turn that on an off”. Seriously? She also finally admitted that being in the EA finally gave her the courage to confront me and our dead marriage and she had D on her mind. .


The EA is a fantasy and there’s no way reality can compete with it. Being is a A magnifies the negatives in the current relationship.



> Right now I cannot believe how far her head is up her…..you know what I mean. She complains how everyone thinks that she is the one responsible for ending the marriage and I told her “yeah”. She is the one who claims to have reached her breaking point and sees no way to “go back”.


They all say that. She is in denial and doesn’t want to look like the bad guy. 



> She is the one who sees leaving me and the marriage as the only way to become who she really is. She is the one who believes nothing will change in the marriage. She refuses to believe I will ever change. She is so fatalistic about any chances of R that she won’t even try. I know that I don’t have a good track record of making changes and getting into fights doesn’t give her any reason to like me. I don’t see why I even care anymore. She has made her priorities clear and just need to let her go. She is putting a deposit on an apartment today and will move out in mid-October. I’ll decide on D once we get some space away from each other and clear our heads. She is so far gone and lost in the EA fog that I’m not holding out hope.


Every time you resist her it strengthens her resolve. She sees you as the enemy and will want/do the exact opposite of what you want. You need to use a little reverse psychology on her.

Give her what she says she wants. There’s no way in hell it will work out with the OM, it’s got fail written all over that but if you tell her that she will just try to prove you wrong. Tell her she is right, the failure in the marriage is all your fault and its best you go your separate ways and go file for a divorce now. All filing does is get the ball rolling and shows her you will let her go. It will be a wakeup call for her.

Don’t try to stop her and don’t argue with her. Throw in the towel and tell her to go and you are looking forward to finding someone new yourself. She is in way over her head and doesn’t realize it yet so you have to take steps to show her what life is going to be like without you in it. She will be shocked.


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

Army - great feedback. I have been trying to do the 180 but keep getting sucked into arguments. Then when I distance myself and try not to talk she mentions that now I'm back to how I was before - not communicating! Why does she even care now? As far as the OM, she says that she has no fantasy of some future with him - he is just her only "friend" who has stuck with her through all this and can't let that go.

Just more and more ready to move on....I'm feeling so done with her today.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

If you were such a terrible husband, why did she wait until she had the EA to finally get the 'courage' to decide to leave you? Answer: Because you weren't, otherwise she would have left you long before she met the OM.

She is in a 'fog' brought about by her lack of marital boundaries which in turn caused a neurochemical co*ktail of dopamine, oxytocin, and serotonin secreted by her brain responsible for the 'falling in love' or 'infatuation' stage at the beginning of a new relationship. In other words, she's become like a drug addict who refuses to stop using her drug of choice, the OM. And like most addicts, it is up to her to choose to end her addiction to the OM.

What is the best thing you can do? Let her go so she can OD on the OM - she's his concern now, not yours. 'Go dark' - no contact with her - as much as is humanly possible and implement the 180 degrees rules. These actions on your part will emotionally heal you and give you the strength so you can move on with your life without her. Tough? Damn right it is. But it is an absolute must in order to keep your sanity throughout this ordeal.


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

morituri said:


> If you were such a terrible husband, why did she wait until she had the EA to finally get the 'courage' to decide to leave you? Answer: Because you weren't, otherwise she would have left you long before she met the OM.
> 
> She is in a 'fog' brought about by her lack of marital boundaries which in turn caused a neurochemical co*ktail of dopamine, oxytocin, and serotonin secreted by her brain responsible for the 'falling in love' or 'infatuation' stage at the beginning of a new relationship. In other words, she's become like a drug addict who refuses to stop using her drug of choice, the OM. And like most addicts, it is up to her to choose to end her addiction to the OM.
> 
> What is the best thing you can do? Let her go so she can OD on the OM - she's his concern now, not yours. 'Go dark' - no contact with her - as much as is humanly possible and implement the 180 degrees rules. These actions on your part will emotionally heal you and give you the strength so you can move on with your life without her. Tough? Damn right it is. But it is an absolute must in order to keep your sanity throughout this ordeal.


How can you go dark with two young kids? Seems like it may be a challenge. 180 may be more successful as long as I can keep a lid on my anger and stay out of arguments. 

As far as not leaving earlier she tries to rationalize that she thought she just needed to stay in a loveless marriage - she was resigned to the fact.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

DSSM9500 said:


> . It’s like she is re-writing history to rationalize the EA..


That's exactly what she is doing. Whittling a sqare peg to fit into a round hole. If she won't commit to NC let her move out do the 180 and focus on yourself. Reality will come knocking on her door sooner or later. The question now is will you be there for her when it does.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

DSSM9500 said:


> How can you go dark with two young kids? Seems like it may be a challenge.


Yes, with children it is a very difficult, if not impossible, challenge. But you can make yourself scarce when the two of you are home. Most women have a need for conversation since it is one of their top emotional needs. Limit your conversations to short and to the point issues relating to the children and the divorce. Do not allow her to engage you in any talk about your faults and how she feels misunderstood by others, etc, etc, etc.



> 180 may be more successful as long as I can keep a lid on my anger and stay out of arguments.


That is one of the primary reasons why you should keep your interactions with her business like and not allow her to engage you with her 'fog talk'.



> As far as not leaving earlier she tries to rationalize that she thought she just needed to stay in a loveless marriage - she was resigned to the fact.


That is BS. Every day hundreds of thousands of men and women around the world, leave their spouses not because their having an affair but because they reached their breaking point in a loveless/sexless marriage. If the marriage was so bad, why stay? The only reason is because it wasn't and she chose to violate her marital boundaries, fell in love with the OM and is now trying to magnify the problems in the marriage to justify the unjustifiable.


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

Update: this morning DS apologized for continuing the EA while still living together. Her rationale was that she didn't see us as together anymore so it shouldn't have mattered who she talked to. But now she knows.

We then restated that separating was the best course of action for now. I also told DS I was still open to R, but not under the current circumstances and I was fully prepared to move-on on my own. On a funny note she still asked if she should still get the apartment - weird statements like that tell me she is pretty confused. I just need to not read too much into it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Find new counselors.


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## DSSM9500 (Sep 16, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Find new counselors.


Right now I doubt that DS is willing to give counseling a try. We're both seeing individual counselors. I think one reason counseling did not work is that she was Gaslighting - you would have thought we had the worlds worst marriage. She also strongly presented the fact that she had emotionally left me quite a while ago. The counselor said that we didn't have a marriage to fix.


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