# Spoiled Wife, Spoiled Kids



## Confused-miami (Oct 22, 2014)

My wife is spoiled. Her kids are spoiled. However, last night, she, and they crossed the line. 

My 16-year old step daughter has a history of sleeping around and has even participated in group sex. She also has a history of drug and alcohol use. Furthermore, she has tried to commit suicide twice and has all but failed out of school the last two years.

My point being, she is not one to make many wise decisions at this point in her life.

Even so, my wife lets my step daughter and her boyfriend lie in bed together - in her room. My wife's only rule is that the door must remain cracked. However, often, the door is shut. I don't in anyway agree with this and have stated so - often. 

Once again, the primary issue is that the door is often NOT open. In fact, its open about 60% of the time and closed 40% of the time. I am dumbfounded that my wife would permit her bed privileges with her boyfriend and further dumbfounded that she wouldn't take this privilege away after finding the door shut the first couple of times.

Because I was tired of finding the door shut, I told my step daughter and her boyfriend that, obviously, she wouldn't take it upon herself to ensure that the door remained open (why would she) so it was now his job to make sure the door stayed open. I told him if I found it closed, he would be asked to leave immediately. He agreed. 

Please keep in mind, they have both admitted that they are sexually active.

Last night, I walked by and the door was closed AGAIN. I opened the door and told him he that had to leave at once. 

Awhile later, I got up to use the restroom only to hear them still talking. I opened the door and there he was, still lying on the bed just like he was 10 minutes prior. The only difference was that the door was cracked this time. I told him again, firmly, that he had to go. He just looked away and continued lying there. I told him again to leave and, once again, he ignored me. At this point my step daughter started yelling F-you, he can stay if he wants to! You aren't my dad! 

I had several choices, call the police and have them escort the 17-year old young man out, but I was tired and wanted to go to bed, go tell her mom - I'm a man and I can handle my own problems, or tell him to get the F-out before I kick his a*s. 

I chose the latter. 

Of course, I had no real intentions of putting my hands on the kid, but I had every intention of making him think that I would if he didn't leave my home.

In plain, firm English, I told him that if he didn't leave, I would "open up on him" Get out of my house NOW!"

Finally, slowly got up and started putting his shoes on.

The next thing I know, my step daughter was yelling F-bombs at me and then my wife came into the room and started calling me an a-hole, a ****, a piece of sh*t and then, started pushing me and shoving me (literally). She was doing so in a way that seemed to suggest she wanted me to get physical back so she could press charges or something. 

Furthermore, it turns out that after I told the boyfriend to leave, my step daughter called her mom from her bedroom and her mom overruled me and said that he could stay. I had no idea that any of this had occurred.

As my wife was pushing me, both she and my step daughter were calling me every vile name under the sun until her 14-year old son heard the commotion and came upstairs. He then looked at his mom and sister in horror and then grabbed his mom to get her to stop putting her hands on me. It was like something right of the stage of the Jerry Springer show.

At this point, I saw that the boyfriend was leaving and I turned around and walked into my bedroom. I was in absolute disbelief that this is who I chose to marry. 

Five minutes later, my wife and her daughter smugly announce that her boyfriends dad is a cop. Gleefully, each tell me that her boyfriend is going to tell him I threatened him and, because he's a minor, that I should expect a knock on the door from the police anytime. 

I am a forgiving man. I am a patient man and I am a humble man. However, I don't think I can forgive this betrayal from my wife. She is all but a kept woman as it is. Her entire, substantial, paycheck goes towards paying for her boob job, tummy tuck, lipo and laser hair removal. She helps with NONE of the mutual bills and she uses the child support money to make payments on a $ 1200 month car that only she is allowed to drive. 

Any advise would be appreciated but I see no alternative other than divorce. 

I could go on and on but, when something like this happens, it leaves you reeling, questioning if you made the right decision in asking him to leave, and then telling him that you'll kick his butt when he refused to do so and so on. I'm wondering if my perspective was that off? Thank you and any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Sounds like you've spent years making your bed there, and now you're finding it hard to sleep there. Why have you tolerated this? How long have you been married? 

And yes, I suspect your problems are not fixable. Your only real option is to stand up for yourself, but I doubt they'll put up with that. 

C


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Disrespect is a very difficult thing for me to deal with. I sadly don't have patients for it at all. I would go talk to a lawyer before you do anything. 

Its always a good idea to figure out where you stand legally before you act. You should be able to also do a no trespass order on the boy. If this comes up again I would bring the cops into it. It sounds like they might make things up and the only people that will be on your side is the police if you take the upper hand. 

Another thing. When the daughter and your wife is gone just take the door off the hinges and put it in storage. 

That will give them something to think about the next time they pull something like this. 

I am sorry you are going through this but personally I think you have to demand respect or you will never get it. 

Clay


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## Confused-miami (Oct 22, 2014)

PBear, your post certainly had a ring of truth. We've been married five years and for five years, I have allowed similar things to happen. Every six weeks, something dramatic happens. Every six weeks, I turn a blind eye. 

I can only surmise that I am allowing it to happen out of fear of failure. Don't get me wrong, I do love her but until it became clear to me that she would have not stuck up with me had the police shown up, I guess I looked the other way. We are both licensed professionals and legal problems could be career ending. She knows this and I suspect that she was trying to make a power play. Once again, I didn't touch the young man, nor would I have, however, I feel that she would have spun it in such a way that I would have got a slap on the wrist. 

Signs of this type of behavior started to show up right before we said I do and my instincts told me to run then, but I never did. I've been living the dream ever since.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Have you ever read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy"? 

C


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## Confused-miami (Oct 22, 2014)

Hi Clay and thank you for your reply. You are the second person today to suggest taking the door of the hinges. At this point, I will just ensure that the kid doesn't come back. Ever.

The truth is that I don't trust her or her daughter. I feel they will end up trying to damage me in some way or another on their way out to make it not seem like them. I think my wife would try to say I hit her (never laid a hand on her - ever) or my step daughter would say I tried to touch her inappropriately (of course not) or they would try to burn the house down etc.

The way my wife was pushing and shoving me last night was an obvious attempt to get me to respond back physically. She was taunting me trying to get me to react. I suspect she knew she crossed the line and wanted an excuse to say that I was the ******* if I filed for divorce.

I wouldn't even be surprised if she tried to hurt or kill my pets.

What's odd is that she comes from a very good conservative Christian family. Her parents were horrified when she divorced the first time and she knows they would look at her like a leper if she divorced a second time. They would also roll over in their pew if they knew she had a boob job (she wraps them when they come over), a tummy tuck, lipo and laser hair removal.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Get a VAR and keep it in your pocket at all times. 

File for Divorce

Start a new life without the psychos.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Do you know the boy's father's name. 

You might want to have a chat with him. He might very well not like the two of them being in the bedroom with the door closed.

Also might be good to have a discussion with the police about what happened and that you fear your wife and daughter might set you up. Maybe threaten her with assault since she was the one pushing you .


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

His problem will be the kids, who will likely side with their mom... A VAR would be a good start to protecting himself. Video would be better. 

Who's house is it? 

C


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Is this what you envision for a relationship for the rest of your life? Later I will send you a story about a guy that works for me and what his wife and step daughter did to him....he Is now facing charges.....watch your back and record everything....but get the hell out of this marriage.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

See a lawyer tomorrow, a good one. 

Stop having sex with your wife.

You need to get divorced. Do not look back.

And get counseling!


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## Confused-miami (Oct 22, 2014)

Ugh. Tough morning. I went home last night and slept on the floor of our rec room. No contact with anyone while home.

I love my wife but I can't continue like this. 

The truth of her behavior is so bad there is no way she will ever admit it and change. She's not emotionally strong enough to look into that mirror. This saddens me greatly because I dearly love the woman that she's shown me on occasions. 

I am a very loyal person. Maybe it's because I feel I'm not worthy of love so I have no right to take my love and loyalty away from another - even if there abusing me. I don't know. I just know that right now, I miss my wife and I love her. But I know I have to leave and it's killing me.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Consider counselling to figure out why you put up with this. 

You had no couch to crash on? 

C


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You'll get through it. Do you have an appt. made with a lawyer?


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## Confused-miami (Oct 22, 2014)

Hi PBear and thanks for your response. I will look into counseling - today. I do have a couch (several) but I'm tall and a sleeping bag over the rug allows me to stretch out.


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## Confused-miami (Oct 22, 2014)

Hi jld and thank you also for taking the time to respond. I appreciate it very much. I have not yet contacted an atty as I'm still a bit in shock. I know the laws in my state and she has no way to take me to the cleaners financially.

We are both professionals and we both earn about the same income. She actually brings in more than me when you calculate the child support she's paid each month. 

Even so, I pay 100% of the mortgage, electric, phone, cell phones, dsl, cable, garbage all remodel expenses, upkeep and I also pay for the kids allowances. I even paid for a maid until she found fault with both of them. 

For her part, she won't even pack my lunches. Of course, reading what I just typed makes me feel like a complete tool. She and her kids moved into my 4-bedroom home five years ago and she hasn't put a dime toward overhead since (other than buying flowers because she enjoys planting them each spring).

Her excuse for not paying anything is that her name is not on the deed. I told her I would put her name on the deed if she was also willing to be put on the mortgage. Of course, she rejects this.

She doesn't even buy my groceries (just food for her and her kids). 

I will say that she did put me on her major medical (I'm self employed). For the first year or so after she did so, I had to cut her a check for the added few dollars it cost her each month. I finally put my foot down on this so she now pays the
$ 75/month or so that this costs.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Confused-miami said:


> Hi jld and thank you also for taking the time to respond. I appreciate it very much. I have not yet contacted an atty as I'm still a bit in shock. I know the laws in my state and she has no way to take me to the cleaners financially.
> 
> We are both professionals and we both earn about the same income. She actually brings in more than me when you calculate the child support she's paid each month.
> 
> ...



I guess you are starting to relize that you are in a one-sided marriage. You can use that idea to help you detach. You probably had your love blinders on, and it fogged your vision. IIn about five years after marriage, most of the bonding hormones are gone, and we notice our partners flaws more, and what we find enduring before, we find annoying.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You need out. Let us know as soon as you get an appointment with an attorney.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You love her... And yet she was trying to hit you. Does that scream love to you? Don't waste your love on an undeserving person. 

Please work on gaining a little self-respect! 

And listen to jld.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Next time she lays a hand on you, call 911. She would go to jail for that....


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

OMG! See an attorney, file for divorce. This is going to be a rough one. Your poor initial boundaries in this relationship have allow this situation to spiral completely out of control. Take control of your life now! You are worthy of love, its just your family isnt capable of giving it. They are only capable of taking it from you, and disrespecting you in the process.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

while you can not kick them out you could sell the house and take the proceeds and walk away you owe her nothing and nothing is what she deserves.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

Confused-miami said:


> . . . .I am a very loyal person. Maybe it's because I feel I'm not worthy of love so I have no right to take my love and loyalty away from another - even if there abusing me. I don't know. I just know that right now, I miss my wife and I love her. But I know I have to leave and it's killing me.





Confused-miami said:


> . . . .We are both professionals and we both earn about the same income. She actually brings in more than me when you calculate the child support she's paid each month.
> . . . . Even so, I pay 100% of the mortgage, electric, phone, cell phones, dsl, cable, garbage all remodel expenses, upkeep and I also pay for the kids allowances. I even paid for a maid until she found fault with both of them.
> . . . .. She and her kids moved into my 4-bedroom home five years ago and she hasn't put a dime toward overhead since (other than buying flowers because she enjoys planting them each spring).
> . . . . Her excuse for not paying anything is that her name is not on the deed. I told her I would put her name on the deed if she was also willing to be put on the mortgage. Of course, she rejects this.
> ...


Dude, I am so sorry for you. This is not love, this is not a marriage. 

Run Forrest Run.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

> Her excuse for not paying anything is that her name is not on the deed. I told her I would put her name on the deed if she was also willing to be put on the mortgage. Of course, she rejects this.


If you have this in writing from her that would be awesome for you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. As other's have said this is not a marriage. You are being used.

There is something I think you ought to contemplate. Now that you have been married for 5 years, your wife has finally shown you who she really is. I don't think you love who she really is. You love the person she pretended to be and the person you wanted her to be. That love still exists and it belongs to you. Take it back and use it more wisely next time. 

A lot of us make mistakes in picking the wrong person. I know I did. There is no shame in that. It's an important lesson learned... a hurtful one, but an important one.

Since your wife went after you physically, you need to protect yourself. As others have said, get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and have it on you at all times when you are at home. Keep your cell phone with you too.

If she goes after you again you will have a recording of it. You can calm state over and over.. stop hitting me. you are hurting me. Please get away from me. She will do her thing and go crazy. 

Then call the police. let them listen to the recording. You can ask to have her removed from your home because she is being physically violent.

Where is the father of this charming step daughter of yours. Does he know what his daughter is doing? You might want to have a talk with him. Perhaps his kids need to go live with him... especially your step son who seems to be quite a bit different than your wife and the charming step daughter.

By the way. Some people have 2 or more VARS so that they can have the stashed around the house to records things like that attack from our wife. 

You need to see and attorney ASAP to file for divorce and to find out how to get them out of your house. Tell the lawyer about the physical attack, your fear of false accusations.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

You were inlove with what you thought she was.
Not what she is.

File and dont look back. 
This will not get any better.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You need to divorce this woman. Like, yesterday. Hire an attorney and kick her sorry, useless ass out of your house. You say you "dearly love the woman she has shown you on occasion"...really?? That isnt real, that is love of an IDEA, not of the actual person. Sorry to say, but the real her SUCKS. Divorce her and rid yourself of the life sucking drama.


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## lovesmanis (Oct 9, 2014)

It sounds to me like she is terrified with what her daughter is going through that she will let her daughter do just about anything that she wants so that she does not lose her.

When you disturbed her daughter and the bf, you sent the daughter into a fit and the mom was defending her daughter out of her fear for her daughter. 

I would suggest that the daughter needs to see a Psychiatrist so that her emotional problems can be addressed.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Miami, I agree with other respondents that you should divorce this abusive woman and not look back. Focus on your own healing. Yet, if you are still reluctant to file, I would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with. I suspect you will learn that you are at far more risk of being harmed or arrested (on a false charge) than you realize. 

I also would suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about the red flags for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) to see if most sound very familiar. I mention this because the behaviors you describe -- i.e., temper tantrums, strong verbal abuse, physical abuse, strong feeling of entitlement (spoiled), frequent lack of empathy, always being "The Victim," and rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing you -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may have strong traits of it.



> Signs of this type of behavior started to show up right before we said I do and my instincts told me to run then.


If your W does exhibit strong BPD traits, they likely would not have appeared during the courtship period because her infatuation would have held her two fears at bay. As soon as that infatuation started evaporating, however, her fears would return and you would have started triggering releases of her anger and distrust. This is why BPD traits typically do not appear until at least 4 to 6 months into the relationship. 



> My wife came into the room and started calling me an a-hole, a piece of sh*t and then started pushing me and shoving me (literally).


If your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), these physical outbursts would not be surprising because physical abuse is strongly associated with BPD and, to a lesser extent, with Antisocial PD. A 1993 Canadian psychiatric study, for example, found that nearly all of the spousal batterers studied had a PD and half of them had full blown BPD. 

The reason that BPDers are strongly associated with spousal physical abuse is that they have great difficulty controlling their emotions and also lack impulse control. On top of that, they frequently do black-white thinking -- i.e., they can flip in ten seconds from adoring you to devaluing (even hating) you based solely on a minor comment or action. If your W does a lot of B-W thinking, it will be evident in the way she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" -- and then, in ten seconds, can recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor (or imaginary) infraction.



> The truth of her behavior is so bad there is no way she will ever admit it and change. She's not emotionally strong enough to look into that mirror.


If she has strong BPD traits, that refusal to show remorse or admit to mistakes is to be expected. BPDers are filled with so much self loathing that the last thing they want to find is one more item to add to the long list of things they hate about themselves. 

The result is that a BPDer's self conscious will protect her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes this by projecting all her bad thoughts and feelings onto her partner. Because that projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, a BPDer usually will be convinced -- at a conscious level -- that her false accusations are true.



> I dearly love the woman that she's shown me on occasions.


Likewise, I dearly love my BPDer exW. It is important to realize that a BPDer's problem is not being BAD but, rather, being UNSTABLE. Due to that emotional instability, a BPDer can flip in ten seconds from being a loving person to being a hateful person. This occurs primarily because she is too immature to tolerate experiencing strong mixed feelings. She therefore allows herself to experience only one set of feelings (e.g., love or hate) at a time. A BPDer is able to do this by "splitting off" the conflicting feelings, i.e., putting them out of reach of her conscious mind.



> I don't trust her or her daughter. I feel they will end up trying to damage me in some way or another on their way out to make it not seem like them. I think my wife would try to say I hit her.


If your W is a BPDer, you are at risk of being arrested on a bogus charge and thrown into jail. At the end of my 15-year marriage, that is exactly what my BPDer exW did to me. If that happens to you, hopefully it will not occur early on a Saturday morning -- in which case you will be locked up for nearly three days before you can go before a judge for arraignment on Monday afternoon.



> The way my wife was pushing and shoving me last night was an obvious attempt to get me to respond back physically. She was taunting me trying to get me to react.


If this happens again and you see her headed for the phone, it would be prudent to call the police yourself before she reaches them. In my case, the arresting officer told me that, when it is unclear which spouse started the abuse, their policy is to arrest the person who DIDN'T make the phone call and then let the judge figure it all out later.



> Every six weeks, something dramatic happens. Every six weeks, I turn a blind eye.


With my BPDer exW, she would throw a temper tantrum about that often. But sometimes we might go two months before another bad outburst occurred. The primary reason for these fights is that BPDers crave intimacy but cannot tolerate it for very long before they get a suffocating feeling of being controlled and engulfed by the partner. The BPDer therefore creates a fight -- over absolutely nothing at all -- to push her partner away, giving her breathing space. This is why BPDers tend to create fights right after an intimate evening or right in the middle of a great vacation. The result is that the very WORST fights tend to occur immediately after, or during, the very BEST of times.



> My 16-year old step daughter has a history of sleeping around and has even participated in group sex. She also has a history of drug and alcohol use. Furthermore, she has tried to commit suicide twice.


If your W really does have strong BPD traits, her daughter is at increased risk of developing it too. If that happens, the traits typically would start appearing strongly in the early teens, right after the start of puberty. I mention this because the lack of impulse control (e.g., drug and alcohol abuse and promiscuous sex) and self harming (e.g., suicide attempts) are two of the nine defining traits for BPD.



> I wouldn't even be surprised if she tried to hurt or kill my pets.


Is one of your pets a rabbit? I ask because the most infamous portrayal of a vindictive BPDer is Glenn Close's role in the film, _Fatal Attraction_. Michael Douglas' character (the object of her revenge) comes home to find his child's pet rabbit boiling in a pot on the stove -- giving rise to the pejorative term "bunny boiler" as a reference to vindictive BPDers. At issue, then, is whether you may be married to a "bunny boiler."

I therefore suggest that, while you're looking for a good psychologist, you read about BPD red flags so you know what behaviors are on the list. Spotting them is not difficult because there is nothing subtle about red flags such as strong verbal abuse, temper tantrums, vindictive actions, and rapid flips between Jekyll and Hyde. 

An easy place to start reading is my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. Because I've never met your W, I cannot know whether those signs match her behaviors. Yet, if most of them sound very familiar to you, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Maybe's Thread. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Miami.


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## Confused-miami (Oct 22, 2014)

•	1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
YES, SHE DOES THIS. ONE MINOR ISSUE WILL COMPLETELY DESTROY A FRIENDSHIP. IN OUR FIVE YEARS OF MARRIAGE, SHE HAS ONLY ENGAGED TWO WOMEN AS FRIENDS (FOR A VERY SHORT TIME) AND SOON THEY WEREN’T WORTHY OF HER. CURRENTLY, SHE HAD NO FRIENDS AND HANGS OUT WITH NO ONE BUT ME AND THE KIDS. SHE WOULD MAKE A SCENE, UP TO AND INCLUDING SHOUTING MATCHES IN THE PARKING LOT WITH OTHER MOM’S ON HER DAUGHTERS DANCE TEAM. SHE DID THIS TO THE POINT THAT THE OTHER MOM’S AVOIDED HER LIKE THE PLAGUE.

•	2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
SHE DOES THIS “ALL THE TIME.”
•	3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;
I WOULD TAKE HER DAUGHTER TO BREAKFAST ON SATURDAYS. CONSEQUENTLY, SHE WOULD SAY ALL I DO IS HANG OUT WITH HER DAUGHTER. IF I BUY HER KIDS SOMETHING, EVEN IF IT’S FOR SCHOOL, I HAVE TO ALSO BUY HER SOMETHING OR SHE GETS UPSET.
SHE WANTS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY FAMILY WHATSOEVER AND HAS DONE EVERYTHING SHE CAN TO STOP THEM FROM COMING OVER. THE SAME WITH MY FRIENDS. EVERYONE NOTICES THIS AND DOESN’T UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON. I KEEP TELLING EVERYONE THAT WE ARE JUST SOOOO BUSY ETC.
•	4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;
ABSOLUTELY YES.
•	5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;
THIS IS HOW I LIVE. EXCEPT I WOULD SAY SHE ONLY ACTS LIKE SHE ADORES ME ONCE OR TWICE A YEAR. THE REST OF THE TIME, I AM NEVER GOOD ENOUGH.
•	6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;

SEE DANCE TEAM DRAMA ABOVE. SHE DOES THIS ALL THE TIME WITH ME AND HER KIDS.
•	7. Low self esteem;
I THINK SHE IS CLINICALLY DEPRESSED AND NEEDS MEDICATION TO TREAT IT.
•	8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;
YES, ALL THE TIME. BOTH ME AND THE KIDS. SHE WILL ALSO BREAK THINGS, THROW LAMPS AT THE WALLS (AIMING FOR MY HEAD) AND SO ON.
•	9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;
THIS DOESN’T SEEM TO APPLY ON THE SURFACE ANYWAY. SHE SURE IN FACT, SHE ACTS LIKE SHE WOULD RATHER BE ALONE. SHE HAS NEVER RESPONDED WITH ANGER IF I WENT OUT OF TOWN ETC.
•	10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;
YES, EVERYTHING IS MY RESPONSIBILLITY AND MY FAULT. IF SHE DOES SOMETHING, IN HER MIND, I SHOULD HAVE EITHER DONE IT FOR HER OR SOMEONE WHO IS MORE OF A MAN WOULD HAVE TAKEN CARE OF IT FOR HER (I.E. HER CAR PAYMENT, THE FACT THAT SHE WORKS AND SO ON).
•	11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
SHE DOES THE BING SPENDING AND, EVEN THOUGH SHE DOESN’T PAY ANY OF THE HOME BILLS, SHE IS ALWAYS DROWNING IN DEBT.
•	12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;
SHE DOES SAY HER EX WAS ABUSIVE BUT SHE’S NEVER TOLD ME I TREAT HER WELL.
•	13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"

NO, SHE DIDN’T DO THIS THAT I WAS AWARE OF.
•	14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
NOT SO MUCH THAT I CAN PIECE TOGETHER.
•	15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;
NO, WHEN SHE’S UPSET, SHE WANTS ME GONE.
•	16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);
SHE HAS NO FRIENDS, CLOSE OR AWAY. MANY OF MY FRIENDS WIVES, MY MOTHER AND HER DAUGHTERS FRIENDS HAVE ALL TRIED TO ENGAGE HER AND SHE PUSHES THEM ALL AWAY.
•	17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and
SHE’S ALWAYS WITH US SO I CAN’T SAY.
•	18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she often "rewrites history" because she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.
YES, SHE DOES THIS ALL THE TIME. SHE CONSTANTLY REWRITES HISTORY.

Is there hope? Is there help? If she gets on some type of medication, would it help? 

Everyone, thank you so much for taking the time out of your days to help me through this. I am beyond grateful!


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

"There is something I think you ought to contemplate. Now that you have been married for 5 years, your wife has finally shown you who she really is. I don't think you love who she really is. You love the person she pretended to be and the person you wanted her to be. That love still exists and it belongs to you. Take it back and use it more wisely next time. " 

My almost XW once said this in a different way. She said "you don't really love me, you only think you do". I loved the person she portrayed early in our marriage. She slowly changed back to the person she really was. Elegirl just told you something that took me many years to figure out. Confused-Miami, you only love the person you thought your wife was, not who she really is. The love you have for your wife is really filtered through rose colored glasses. Time to take them off.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Blimey!

You can smell the whiff of N/BPD from the lobby.

Uptown n others have it.

Good luck with that, Miami.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You need a divorce. Please do not even wonder if she has a psychological disorder or not. Your issue is getting that divorce.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

jld said:


> You need a divorce. Please do not even wonder if she has a psychological disorder or not. Your issue is getting that divorce.


:iagree:


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Yes....there is help for this.

It's called a divorce. 

RUN!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Miami, thanks for giving us a run down on applicability of the 18 BPD warning signs. That was very helpful.


Confused-miami said:


> Fear of abandonment -- THIS DOESN’T SEEM TO APPLY ON THE SURFACE ANYWAY.


I disagree. The irrational jealousy you describe almost certainly is motivated by a strong fear of abandonment, i.e., a strong fear of losing you to someone else. My BPDer exW, for example, felt threatened whenever she saw me looking at another woman for a second instead of a half second. She also was jealous of the time I spent with her own adult children (my stepchildren, whom I adored) and she hated my adult foster son (because I was so close to him). 

Even though my exW knew I would not run off with one of her daughters, she feared abandonment in the sense of losing my affection and my attention. And she started to suspect that the only reason I stayed married to her was not my love for her but, rather, my love for her daughters and sons. Such delusional thinking often arises from a strong abandonment fear.



> Is there hope?


Yes, if she is a BPDer, there is hope. Although BPD currently cannot be cured, BPDers can learn how to manage it. Most major cities in the US, Canada, and Europe have a few psychologists trained in teaching BPDers the skills that the rest of us learned in childhood. These programs include CBT and DBT. 

But, sadly, it is rare for a BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength required to seek out such a program and stay in it long enough -- several years at the very least -- to make a difference. I would be surprised if as many as 1% of BPDers ever accomplish that. In my case, I spent a small fortune taking my BPDer exW to six different psychologists and 3 MCs for weekly sessions for 15 years -- all to no avail. 

I learned that, when your W is a BPDer, MC is a total waste of time and money because she will only play mind games with the therapist and use the MC sessions as a bully pulpit from which to beat up on you. Indeed, a team of psychologists will be useless unless she is one of those rare BPDers who has sufficient self awareness and ego strength to be strongly self-motivated to fix herself.

Keep in mind that, if you want to go down that road and start hiring psychologists for her, it will be EXTREMELY difficult for you to tell whether she is actually making real progress. In the same way that smokers are always "quitting" every six weeks, a BPDer will always be seen to be dramatically "improving" at regular intervals. That's the way emotionally unstable people are. Yet, instead of seeing real, lasting improvement, you likely will be only seeing one of the upward slopes on the never-ending roller coaster ride. It therefore is time to get off the ride.



> If she gets on some type of medication, would it help?


Medication cannot make a dent in BPD because it represents an emotionally immature way of thinking. This is why meds are not prescribed for it. BPDers must learn emotional skills and, like learning how to play the piano, swallowing a pill will not provide those skills. Nearly all BPDers, however, also have one or two "clincial" disorders such as depression, bipolar, GAD, PTSD, or ADHD. The result is that psychiatrists typically prescribe meds for BPDers to give them relief from those co-occurring disorders.



> Is there help?


If she is a BPDer, the healing process is an "inside job," i.e. she must be willing to fix herself by learning emotional skills: e.g., how to do self soothing, how to control her emotions, how to avoid black-white thinking, how to tolerate ambiguities and uncertainties, how to take responsibility for her own feelings instead of projecting them onto you, and how to intellectually challenge her intense feelings instead of accepting them as self-evident "facts." 

She will have no incentive to do that, however, as long as you continue walking on eggshells all the time to avoid triggering her rage. By protecting her from the logical consequences of her own bad choices, your enabling behavior is harming her by making it unnecessary for her to confront those issues and learn how to manage them. 

There nonetheless are many things you can do to help _yourself_. As I and other respondents have suggested, your best option probably is to simply walk out now and not look back. Yet, if you were willing to do that, you likely would have done it years ago. Whenever a man has been living in an abusive situation for five years as you have done -- or for 15 years as I did -- he almost certainly is an excessive caregiver (what some folks call "codependent"). 

With guys like us, our desire to be _needed _(for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be _loved_ (for the men we already are). As children, we typically grew up to be the "little fixer" in the family. Consequently, the notion of walking away from a sick loved one is anathema to us -- even when that is exactly what we should do and even when our efforts "to fix her" are counter-productive. 

Hence, you may remain stuck in your toxic marriage unless you take time to better understand the dynamics of your relationship (which is essentially parent/child, not husband/wife, if she is a BPDer). Once you have a better understanding of your caregiving nature and your inability to fix your W's issues, you will realize your enabling behaviors are harming her, not helping her. That insight will free you from the quilt and strong feelings of obligation that are keeping you trapped in this toxic marriage. Toward that end, I offer several specific recommendations:

*As an initial matter,* I recommend that you NOT tell your W that you suspect she has most of the BPD traits at a strong level. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her (most likely, the psych won't tell her either because it usually is not in the client's best interests to be told about her BPD).

*Second,* if you think you may stay with her a while, I suggest you get _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, the best-selling BPD book targeted to spouses like you. Or, if you are decided to get a divorce instead, get _Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder._ Both books are written by the same author.

*Third,* I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. It offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The ones that likely will be most helpful to you are the "Staying" and "Leaving" boards.

*Fourth,* while you are at BPDfamily, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My two favorites are Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with BPD and Leaving a Partner with BPD. Moreover, if you've not yet done so, I suggest you read my description of typical BPDer behaviors in Maybe's Thread here in this TAM forum.

*Fifth,* to get some perspective on your excessive caregiver nature, I suggest you read Shari Schreiber's Core Injury. Generally, I don't like her description of BPDers because she confuses them with narcissists and sociopaths. I nonetheless find this blog article of hers to be very insightful as to how we caregivers got to be this way during our childhoods.

*Sixth*, I again suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. As I've explained in other threads, your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists usually are loath to tell high functioning BPDers the name of the disorder.

*Finally*, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping many other members and lurkers. Indeed, the "views count" for your thread already has been nearly 1200 views in just three days.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

A brief addition to Uptown's excellent post.

I worked in assessment rather than treatment but would help out there - holidays, emergencies, etc.

It wasn't uncommon to get blank stares from BPDs if trying to explain how they impact families or carers. Explain how their behaviour impacts them and a little light can go on. They can get cause and affect as it applies to them, but it's a stretch for them to look from the outside in. Impossible for the full-blown narci-ragers. The fewer symptoms the better the progress.

Harder to explain. The socially enabled can self-calm for weeks - BPD calm = quietly seething. It's a battle - but when something comes along that'd píss you or I off,, it's too much of a distraction and that emotion will smother their learning/calming techniques. If they've caused a scene, they come in really distressed and their weeks of doing well count for little. It can take weeks or months to lift them out of a slump to where they were at before they lost it. It's distressing to watch sometimes.

1 in 10 suicide rate for BPDs.

1 in 7,500 approx for western adult pop.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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