# The whole truth?



## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

Back on the first of the year after 2 solid weeks of my wife cheating on me, she finally came clean with me and our relationship has been great... for the most part...

Short story...

On December 18, she told me that she wanted to separate. She also indicated that she was going to wait until after the first of the year, but I dragged out of her because of her inappropriate behavior.

She had been distant towards me for several weeks. She came to me on 12/17 and informed me that she was going to go off on an overnight venture with a couple of "girl friends" I had never heard of on New Year's eve.

the following evening when she came home from work 1 1/2 hours late (again) I told her that we needed to talk, and that our relationship must be in deep crap if she wanted to put herself into such a vulnerable position.

She told me that she didn't love me the way I love her, and while she had hoped to gain those feelings for me one day, that after 7 years, it just wasn't happening. This conversation took place just a couple of hours after she left the hotel with another man.

Over the following 2 weeks, she would watch me struggle to repair our marriage. She would watch me re-invent myself in misery and it would cause her to push me further away with each positive step I took to get my marriage back.

Fast forward to new Year's Eve... I talked her into going out with me instead of going off with her friends. I told her how miserable it would make me and how hurtful it would be to me. (especially since I would be home watching not only our daughter, but also her daughter from another marriage... More on this later)

She sat at the table on NYE in tears all night. I really began to believe that there was so much more to the situation that I didn't know about. that night on the hour-long drive on the way home, I began to be really suspicious. I got her home, put her to bed and then dug thru her cell phone.

I found the other man's phone number. She had called him at 6:30 in the morning on her way to work and had talked to him for 34 minutes. At this point, I knew she was cheating. The following day, the truth came out, but probably because she knew I was about to find her out.

She admitted that she had slept with him on the day mentioned above, but she also allowed me to believe that she had extremely limited contact with him. He sells grocery products to the company she works for. She said that she was introduced to him during a routine tour of the company and that she "fell in love" at the sight of his eyes. Then, 2 weeks later, he came to the company to complete his paperwork and then they went to lunch and after lunch, in a moment of passion, they went to the hotel.

She admitted that from that date, she saw me working hard on our marriage and that she intentionally pushed me away because she was so ashamed of what had happened with him that she couldn't stand the guilt, so she just wanted me to get angry with her and leave her to live out her life in misery.

Armed with this limited amount of the truth, I felt like I would be able to work it out with her if she was truly finished with him. She left the house to call him and tell him it was over (He lives about an hour and a half from here, so I know she didn't go to see him... she wasn't gone long enough to have even met him half way). I was disappointed that she did not call him in front of me, but I wasn't really given the option and I allowed her to go do it in private.

I followed up with a call to him and let him know that if I ever had the indication that he had any contact with her from that point forward that I would be coming after him. 

That is the short and the long of it...

Fast forward to the past weekend and I felt like there was something more to the story than I had been let in to. The time to come entirely clean was on the day the truth was coming out, but she felt inclined to continue to hide the following details from me...

They had seen each other almost daily over the course of the "relationship". They had met for lunch breaks, meetings in parking lots and at convenience stores to keep the affair out of the eyes of those they worked with. He masturbated her in the front seat of his car at some point along the way, and they played kissy-kissy almost every day.

He has complied with my every request of him. He went and got a blood screening and mailed me the results, he sent me the Christmas gift she had given to him. He came clean with details of the relationship that she was still hiding from me.

When I have confronted her, she has become irritated and starts to cry. she says "Why can't we just move on from this" and "I thought we have been so happy since it all came out" and tries to shift the blame back on to me.

While I know that she is probably ashamed and embarrassed that she allowed herself to be in that situation, I also think that she should be willing to be 100% honest with me no matter what I might ask.

I am really having a problem with all that has happened, and can't seem to get it out of my head. I want this marriage to work, but I am continuously being hurt by thinking about what has happened and her reluctance to tell me all about it.

That said, I really do love my wife and I do believe that it was a mistake made in the heat of many stressful situations that boiled over at the same time. I also believe that she will never do it again, so it isn't as though I feel like I have to follow her around.

I am looking for advice on how to get past these feelings. What do I need to do to stop thinking about him? Is there really a possibility that this marriage can be fixed? I think that we both want it so badly and are willing to do whatever it takes. What can I do?

~Moog


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

At some time it you will need to let go of this and move forward to remove the pain from you both. I’d suggest, if you are ready, to have a frank discussion with her and let her know you want all the details and after this you’ll put it away. While it is likely some of your behaviors in the past made her vulnerable to the affair, she is the one who betrayed her vows. She needs to accept her failures in this not shift the blame. Once you have done this the two of you need to work together on the marriage to rebuild it. Since you are quite sure the behavior will not be repeated a strong trust bond has already been established. That is a huge step for you. Have you considered counseling to help the two of you get past this. It might help but remember you are going to need to split this whole ugly affair open again which will be difficult for each of you.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

She has to be completely honest. She hasn't. That set you back to the day of discovery. She asked you "why you can't just get beyond it?". You need to tell her that what she did, in not coming completely clean is reopen the wound and showed you that she was still trying to hold back on your reconciliation. You need to tell her. Anytime she blame shifts you will also go back to the day of discovery. There is no way around complete honesty and transparency. Then you must tell her that there will be triggers to your feelings of being betrayed. A song, a movie, hearing about any infidelity will pull this trigger. You need to get up in her grill about this. Tell her the only way to get over this quickly like she wants is if you leave her and never talk to her again. And she can bury the marriage. Tell her that you are baring the price of her unfaithfulness and that if she wants reconciliation. You had better never hear her say "Can't we just get past this?" again. This trivializes your feelings and the forgiveness you offer. Her letting another man come inside her takes away any rights she has "In getting past this". This is something YOU need to heel from. You have been very kind to her so far. And she is trying to set the agenda for your forgiveness. That agenda is not hers to set. You demand complete truth so you can start to heal. If she can't give it to you. Tell her to get out. This is harsh but it is best for her to hear if you really want to reconcile.


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## Cheated Don (Jan 18, 2009)

I know for me, I needed to know more than just the "why". Perhaps it's the way men are wired. I didn't want, or need to know every gory detail, but I needed to know what she was thinking and feeling. Can't really explain why. The whole truth has to be told, or the little truths over time will continue to tear open wounds.


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

moo with everything that has gone on lately...

I really think you need to give it time...ALOT of time for both of you.

baby steps to repairing this thing.


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

My problem wouldn't be not knowing every detail. It's the fact that he asked and she didn't tell the truth (or whole truth). She was hiding things again... that would be my problem.

I wouldn't want to know the gory details, but no matter what I asked, I should get a full and honest answer from her.


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## LoNeLy N LoST (Dec 7, 2008)

Thats how i feel right now about it... im going through a similar situation and i feel like the hiding things again is what is the problem. Also i feel that whatever i ask i should get a full and honest answer.




GPR said:


> My problem wouldn't be not knowing every detail. It's the fact that he asked and she didn't tell the truth (or whole truth). She was hiding things again... that would be my problem.
> 
> I wouldn't want to know the gory details, but no matter what I asked, I should get a full and honest answer from her.


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## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

Update on my situation...

We had another screaming match the other night because I was finding out that I STILL did not have the facts. She kept telling me that she knows I am not forgiving her. I told her that in order for me to forgive her, I have to know exactly what I am forgiving her for! Mean words were spoken and it was another sleepless night. 

She admitted to me that the whole lunch and a hotel story was a fabrication, and that it actually was a short drive to a state park and a romp in the back of his vehicle. Then she followed up by shouting at me "There... Are you happy? now I feel like cheap trash!" My response was that a 50 dollar hotel room would have been "cheap trash", but that this was more of "free trash" since there wasn't any money invested in the affair. It was BAAAAAD!

So we went to the Waffle House for coffee the following night after she got out of class... She indicated to me that she was scared that our relationship was going to come down to weekly rants and throwing contests, and that she didn't know if she would want that relationship.

I told her that if she would just come clean and have no lies that it all would be over and the healing process could begin. She said that she had told me the worst of it and that she could have lived with not having told me the "details". I said, "oh, so what I am hearing is that you thought it would be okay to continue to lie about the situation, and that you saw nothing wrong with re-building our relationship on a foundation of deceit."

She said "Well, it doesn't matter what I tell you now, you aren't going to believe me anyway." I told her that she was right, and that the time to be honest had come and gone. I told her that now, because she continued to lie to me, that I was going to have to wait to see what else might surface, and that from this point, if anything else came up that I did not yet know about, or if I found out that something I DID know about was fabricated, it would be the guaranteed end of the relationship, period. "So if there is anything else, or you have not been totally honest about the things you have already told me, NOW would be the time to come out with it.

She asked me if it wasn't enough that she came to me and confessed what she had done in the first place. "No," I said "You came to me and confessed ONLY because you KNEW you were caught, and you came to me while you still had a chance to dress it up in ribbons and bows and give it to me like a present."... "I caught you, and just before I confronted you, you invented a pack of lies to minimize the affair. You left out major information and lied about the remaining balance." She said "You are never going to get past this, are you?"

I said " You had sex with the guy. That much I know, and that much I have forgiven. That is no longer the issue here. It is what it is... But to find out that you lied and are still fabricating stories about the rest of it, and to find evidence that you have not been forthcoming with me, and that you continue to hide things or lie about them is causing the problem we have now."

"But I feel awful and ashamed about what I have done" she says. "I am having such a hard time looking you in the eye and admitting what I have done to you." "It isn't really about YOUR feelings" I said. "You have already used your freedom of choice to get in to this situation, and now your feelings on the topic and your humility is not a concern. You have no right to have any comfort over what has happened. The only choice you have right now is whether you want this marriage and this family or not. That is your ONLY choice. Saving your own feelings is not allowed here."

I think she finally got it. We have been getting along very well since that night. I only hope that I don't find out MORE, because if there is anything more, no matter how small, it will be over between us. There will be no further chance of us making it work because I will be unwilling to try.

I sincerely hope that things continue down the path that they seem to be on today. I will update as needed.

~Moog


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi Moog,

I can totally relate to where you are coming from, wanting honesty so you CAN put this behind you and move forward. I agree that for her, feeling ashamed isn't your problem...it's a small price to pay for the hurt she caused by her actions.

I asked the same of my husband when I found out about his EA. Fortunately he was forthcoming (although the truth does hurt) but it enabled me to move forward. I actually said to him at one point that I know these converstions are very uncomfortable for you and I am honestly not having them to punish you in any way, I just need to be the one you confide in now, not her, so I can begin to trust again and move forward with our marriage without feeling like a complete moron, doormat, clueless, idiot (or something along those lines) I also told him I would never throw this back in his face down the road...I could see the pain and remorse in his eyes and realized it's something we both needed to move past.


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## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

Swedish,

Thank you for that. I really believe in my heart at this point that the fallout from the affair is behind us. I believe that we will be able to move forward from this point. As I have said in other postings here, there is more love and passion in our marriage than there has ever been before. I know beyond belief that he is gone and that she truly does love me with all of her heart. I also believe that it will never happen again.

She has been very attentive and affectionate. She calls me, e-mails me and sends me messages via the messenger program. She never used to do any of that. Before, when I would call her at work (She never called me in 7 years unless she had something for me to do) she would quickly shuffle me off the phone, tell me she didn't have tome to talk and would never tell me she loved me. For the past 7 years, she would only tell me she loved me if I said it first... NOW she says it all the time. Now she calls me at least once daily and I get at the very least one e-mail daily from her.

She tells me that she likes the new me, and to be honest, I am totally in love with the new her as well. I can definitely see the clouds beginning to break up and the sun starting to shine through. It is an incredible feeling that I hope does not go away.

~Moog


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## blindsided (Nov 29, 2008)

I truly believe that in order to move past an affair, there must be complete open and honest discussion of the facts. I asked my husband everything I wanted to know (and yes, some of it hurt a lot), so you need to ask all the questions you have, and of course you can skip questions about the gory details if you don't need that. Somewhere in this forum someone said "you have to put everything on the table for the sunlight to hit it". I think that is the first priority. 

I also believe wholeheartedly that my husband will never be unfaithful again....but I want to close this chapter of our life, not so much because of fear he will see her (or anyone else) again, but because the affair is a reminder of the terrible wrong he has done and the pain he caused both of us. At some point it has to be left behind....the PAIN, that is. I suspect (and hope) that like a scar on our body, there will always be a memory, but perhaps one that does not hurt like the original injury did.


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

I would make sure since she has made such good progress, you do some things in return. Make her realize that changes and nice acts will be reciprocated going forward.


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## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

Absolutely. I am by no means an a$$ to her... It is just that when I find something out that isn't true, I start to ask and she becomes defensive and it turns into a battle. All other times, I am the most affectionate and caring person in the world.

I truly love her with all of my heart.


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## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

Here we go again...

I got onto my computer yesterday and found some e-mails that my wife has sent to other men... One of which was the man I knew about that she had an affair with. The other one was with someone she works with... Apparently there has been a game of "Grab-A$$" going on with him as well. This was the first affair, and while she maintains that there was no sex, she did kiss him and allowed him to touch her inappropriately.

I also found out more information about the affair that she "admitted to". They had sex not once, but TWICE... the second time was in his home (Which up until yesterday she claimed never to have been to) tied up to his bed and blindfolded.

I don't know how much more I can take... or am willing to take for that matter. I am coming dangerously close to "I don't care anymore" mode.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

So then basically, she has resurrected the man from the day of discovery. So she is putting herself through that, all over again. How do you deal with that? How can they think that the answer to lies is more lies? Stay strong. Are you going to confront her again?


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## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

We went out yesterday. I found e-mails and discovered another e-mail address that she created in her maiden name. I found it and demanded the password which she gave to me and I found nothing in there.

We spent the day yesterday in the truck riding around. She told me horrible things about her affair that I would have had no way to find out.

I told her that I MIGHT be willing to give her another chance, but that if I EVER found out anything further, then it would be the end.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

How old was the new e-mail address? After DD and last NC?


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## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

You are very strong I dont think that I could handle that but when you love someone you never know what you can handle


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## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

She created the e-mail address back in October.


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## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Ya well you put your foot down and showed that you will not deal with that its good she cant have her cake and eat it to! you know.


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## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

I hope so... We had a LONG and drawn out battle last night... complete with name-calling and really harsh words after which I melted down to a smoldering blob of drivel in the other room.

She came to check on me (First time in a LONG time... if EVER) and sat down next to me in the recliner (First time we have EVER been able to both fit in the recliner together...) I was sobbing and the more she touched me, the more out of control my sobbing got. 

She said "you were right... I didn't know how bad this hurt you. I had no idea." She continued to apologize to me and assure me that it would never happen again... She told me that it just wasn't worth all of the pain and the heartache. She told me that she couldn't stand to see me hurt like this and to know that it was her actions that placed me there was really hurting her, too.

I do hurt, and I know that she IS sorry. She gave me access to all of her e-mail addresses, secret bank account, even her corporate e-mail by way of remoting into her work server. She REALLY has laid everything out to me. She has given me everything I have asked for, and even stood over me and helped me to search out the e-mails she had both sent and received from the other man.

I hope the healing can begin now. I really miss my family.

~Moog


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I would have to tell her, "that even though I love you with all my heart. and that you will not see this in my face. My trust in you will never extend further then my trust would in a complete stranger. I would have to leave her with a scar that would be as deep as mine.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Secret bank account? I would also have to remove any financial ties with her whatsoever. She says "the pain she caused you was not worth it"? Even that statement smacks of narcissism. She wouldn't do it again, until it would be worth it to her. That is what I mean by never being able to trust her again. You wake up in the morning and wonder if it would be "worth it to her today?"


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Moo,

Reconciliation came to cheap for her. It cost her nothing but a few arguments, and an ocean of your tears. She needs to feel the betrayal. I am sorry, but you need to think about kicking her ass out. The e-mail you showed is horrendous and shows no second thoughts, just contempt for you.


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## sunflower (Dec 15, 2008)

Ya I dont know fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.


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## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

I have to say that she does come to me asking for my approval. she constantly thanks me for allowing her back in my life, and for being big enough to give her another chance.

She tells me frequently that "she loves 'us' and that she is so happy that we have re-connected the way we have."

She does apologize from time to time and she tells me and others that she needed help to get out of that situation, and that I was able to take care of that need. She tells me that she is so sorry and that she couldn't imagine how her life would be had I not been willing to work it out.

I truly believe her words, and mostly because of her actions and attitude. She seems to have devoted herself to our marriage and our family. We talk frequently about our long-term goals... Something we had stopped talking about years ago.

For the first time in years, I feel like I have my marriage AND my best friend back. I hope it lasts this time.

~Moog


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## Ted (Mar 2, 2009)

Moog,

I am so happy that things are going in a positive direction for you. Keep us informed. Good Luck!


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## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

That's funny you should say that! That was the opening line in one of her "breakup" e-mails to me:



> You were never verbally, physically or mentally abusive. You are a good person. You have a kind heart. You do not mean to do wrong. That's why this is so hard. You are my friend. Because my feelings were not as strong as they should have been or that they did not match yours, stardust to stardust, doesn’t mean that I did not hope to acquire them one day.


I sure am glad SOMEBODY likes me! 

~Moog


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## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

LOL! It's okay... Funny part of it is that when I read those old letters, I am reminded of exactly how she felt. Sometimes I look and I end up hurting... I should probably delete them, but I never want to forget where I have been.

Here's another one... (and the recurring problem is the mention of not having any remorse, which lends itself to the fact that she DID know what she was doing, and that she DID know it was wrong.)



> I attached some of my Kure Beach sunrise pics for you to enjoy. I couldn't find the pelicans though. I beleive we named the one who sits on top of the overhang at the end of the Pier, Henry. I sure do wish you would log on and read my first email already. The anticipation is crazy. All I want to do is hear your voice. Though email is a poor substitute, it is better than nothing.
> 
> Any regrets about today? Me either!
> 
> ...


This looks like the work of someone who is head over heels for someone. When I asked her what happened "today" that they might have regrets about, she told me that they went to lunch... I'll bet you did!

In any case, It is irrelevant at this point. He has been fired from his job, his house is for sale and I already know that they "did it" more than once... What's really the difference at this point?

~Moog


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## moogvo (Dec 21, 2008)

You are right... although I am not sure I want to toss my computer into a bonfire... well... Not for THAT reason! LOL!

I am having joy, and it is probably time to let go of that stuff. I just got off the phone with her. I can feel her love for me. She has been very encouraging to me and my business building project. Back in October, she tried to push me out to go to work at Auto Zone... Not that The Zone is a bad gig, but far below the earning potential of my business. 

Now, she is encouraging me to go for it. I have been invited to go to a friend's house this weekend in SC. He is in the same business as I am but HE brings in over a million dollars a year. He is going to help me out. She asked me if she should pack for me. LOL!

I told her that I was a bit apprehensive about leaving; not because I think she will be doing bad things, but because that is part of our problem that led up to the affairs in the first place (Being gone all the time). She said that this is different because first of all, this is to better our financial future, and second, she feels like I care about her which she says she didn't feel before the affairs.

I am quite comfortable going to his ranch and working with him. I am more than happy to go to his beach condo and learn from him. I would just like to make the money he pays in taxes every year... That's all I need. He will show me the way.

I believe that she will behave from now on... Back in December, she probably would have spent the weekend "away" as well, but now, I don't think so.

~Moog


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