# 43 & married, haunted by lack of dating in my past



## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

I’ve been in an OK marriage for years, but I am doing therapy now because for the past three years I can’t stop obsessing about my “dry years” in high school and college. Zero relationship history.

When I met my wife at 23, she was the first everything to me, including my first kiss. In her shrewd kindness she was vague about her past relationships - and was technically a virgin. No doubt I got extremely lucky there. 

More recently though I learned she was pretty busy with six prior dating relationships which must have been somewhat sexual by the age of 19. I haven’t felt retroactive jealousy too much (groping in cars is so trivial compared with what some of you guys have to deal with) but for me it is just seeing how healthy she was, looking through her old photos which never used to mean anything to me, and working through the therapy exercises where I see the stark difference between us during the formative years. And I can’t talk to my wife about it; there’s not really anything she can do for me further than how she did rescue me at 23. I have tried to get details from her about those past relationships (even though I know this is a really stupid and masochistic thing to do), but she is firm about not saying anything. Firm enough that it kind of bugs me and makes my imagination wander.

My therapist is going to get me better and then we are going to do couples therapy, and a big part will get us back on track sexually which will be a good distraction from all this. 

But meanwhile, while I’m feeling the moment, I just wanted to post here for you guys how much it sucks to have a past of zero. I went through all those years of school looking forward to getting them over with, and now I’m haunted, gutted, by all the things I didn’t do. Not sex but just being a normal teenager without any cares or responsibilities and taking a girl out for an ice cream. And here I am 25 years later.

If you’re still young, take chances. If you can positively influence a shy young guy, do. And if you’re like me, well consider this a +1 on what you’re feeling. It sucks and we can’t ever, every get those years back.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

So how having had other sexual experiences would have changed your feeling about your wife keeping secrets about what she did before you were married?

I do not quite understand.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

This is a deuce of a situation to respond to. 

I understand what you're saying. At your age we all seem to want to look back and remember good things from childhood to teen years, and want to feel we made the most of them.

I'm almost 10 years older than you. I remember that about your age, my thoughts also returned to those times, and I either enjoyed the reminiscing, our thought about how things might have been different. Old girlfriends were always central.

When I was first married, the old girlfriends often constituted a bit of a problem. There was always something popping up at an inopportune moment. So, maybe you can take solace that you've missed out on that.

You say your marriage is "OK". I'm sure that will leap out at many. Maybe the thing to lift you out of your funk is to make your marriage more than OK? Is your wife still the apple of your eye? Is there still a spark?

Start with buying her some dangling ear rings, or something that will give your heart a bump. Then, stop being 43, or be 19 again for a day or two. Shake things up some. 43 is not too old to look and act like James Bond on occasion.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

So, your wife saved you and you are resentful that you'll never get some years back? Why are you going to therapy? To ponder what you may have missed? Think about what you have and you will be happier. It's an exercise in futility to think "what could have been." Think about what IS and work on that.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

What about your marriage is only OK?

So you are thankful your wife was a virgin but you wish you had had more action?


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

imperfectworld said:


> I’ve been in an OK marriage for years, but I am doing therapy now because for the past three years I can’t stop obsessing about my “dry years” in high school and college. Zero relationship history.
> 
> *When I met my wife at 23, she was the first everything to me, including my first kiss. In her shrewd kindness she was vague about her past relationships - and was technically a virgin. No doubt I got extremely lucky there. *
> 
> More recently though I learned she was pretty busy with *six prior dating relationships* which must have been somewhat sexual by the age of 19. I haven’t felt retroactive jealousy too much (groping in cars is so trivial compared with what some of you guys have to deal with) but for me it is just seeing how healthy she was, looking through her old photos which never used to mean anything to me, and working through the therapy exercises where I see the stark difference between us during the formative years. And I can’t talk to my wife about it; there’s not really anything she can do for me further than how she did rescue me at 23. *I have tried to get details from her about those past relationships (even though I know this is a really stupid and masochistic thing to do), but she is firm about not saying anything. Firm enough that it kind of bugs me and makes my imagination wander.*


Wow...we are the same age OP..I've been married 24 years. I can relate somewhat on looking back either reminiscing about the fun stuff or lamenting the dumb a$$ stuff that i've done. 

It sounds like you are making some progress with therapy...so I just have a few questions and things to consider...

"Shrewd Kindness"....wow, that seems loaded as hell...what do you mean by this..exactly?

"technically a virgin"...what does that mean? What kind of benefit do you believe exists for marrying a virgin?

"Stark Difference between us during the formative years"...What kind of similarities are you expecting to have with a teenage girl?

What do you mean by she rescued you? Have you told her that you think she rescued you? What was her reaction? 

"I am concerned about my wife's dating/sexual relationships in High School......_____ years before I met her" 

Say that out loud a few times....How does that sound?


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

Let me have another go at this...with the caveat that since I am loopy enough to have been thinking about this for 3 years and am currently in weekly therapy and meds, if I sound crazy I actually am. I enjoy discussion forums and especially this one though.

Basically I am giving my wife cred for being discreet in discussing her past. This is like visiting an unemployed friend - you don't go over there and brag about your new Audi. She knew I had pain in not having past relationships, it didn't bother her, and she wasn't going to rub it in my face that she had past boyfriends.

Re: virginity - you can find in other threads that the retroactive jealousy of a virgin to a spouse who was sexually active is pretty brutal. Best to be on the same page here, and we pretty much are at least in terms of technical "PIV" sex. I don't know what else she did and yeah I'm curious but I know it is a destructive curiosity. So again, she is protecting me perhaps from the details.

Also to reiterate, it is simple friendships and dating, basic social stuff, that I feel pain about. Not losing my virginity before marriage worked fine for me; I was brought up that way anyway.

It's not a bad marriage but the sex has been lacking since the birth of our son 3 years ago. And that leads to feelings of insecurity and loneliness that tripped me up and got me here.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

imperfectworld said:


> It's not a bad marriage but the sex has been lacking since the birth of our son 3 years ago. And that leads to feelings of insecurity and loneliness that tripped me up and got me here.


Okay, this is the real problem, not what you did not do in the past. 

There is a book called _Hold Me Tight_, by Dr. Sue Johnson, that might be helpful.

http://www.amazon.com/Hold-Me-Tight-Conversations-Lifetime/dp/031611300X/ref=sr_1_1/191-2325684-9037348?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1425265314&sr=1-1&keywords=hold+me+tight+dr+sue+johnson


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I think your wife is smart not to tell you about her past dating experiences.

My husband and I started dating the summer after high school graduation and we are each other's firsts. To this day, he tells me how awesome that is and not many people these days can say that. He is proud of it! I would be devastated to find out otherwise.

Since you posted nothing bad about your wife, I going to assume that she has been a good wife and you are not feeling very grateful about it. Maybe writing down 3 things everyday that your thankful or grateful for can help you put your good life in perspective.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

imperfectworld said:


> It's not a bad marriage but the sex has been lacking since the birth of our son 3 years ago. And that leads to feelings of insecurity and loneliness that tripped me up and got me here.


What was sex like before the birth of your son?

Active? Frequent? Totally Satisfying to both of you?

What are you looking for when you say it's been lacking? Quality, quantity?

Has she mentioned the lack of sex? at all? and was it positive or negative?


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

You're kind of wondering if the grass would have been greener if you had had more experiences in the past. Let me tell you, it isn't. Think about this. Your wife had a lot of choices from her younger years but she chose you. None of them could do it for her. You did. You won. You were better than anyone else she had ever dated. Be confident about that my man and stop doubting yourself. This is all small stuff. Take it from a guy married 29 years and counting to the greatest wife ever, never sweat the small stuff.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I think jld may be on to something there.<br />
<br />
Which seems easier for your mind to latch onto and obsess about -- the choices you both made 20+ years that you can do nothing about, or the fears and feelings you may have about the present state of her attraction and love for you in the present? For me, sometimes what seems like my source of angst is really a proxy for something that I am not yet ready to face. YMMV.<br />
<br />
I feel for you... our paths early on sound similar. My marriage has, after many years of decline, been completely sexless for about a year and a half. As the last bit of hope for turning that around faded, I felt quite a bit of resentment of things I knew She had provided to others eons ago but never once did for me or never would again. But, in retrospect, And in a different state of mind, I truly am glad she had those experiences, as life is short and is to be lived. What really was the root of that discontent was what was happening in our life at the time I was feeling it.<br />
<br />
I can say from experience it can be counterproductive to talk at all about such ancient history with a partner. She did nothing wrong then. If your relationship presently is not where you want it, make that your message and stay on topic. Talk about the old business privately in therapy.<br />
<br />
What is it you wish you could change about your present relationship? What are you feeling down about, happening in the present?<br />
<font size="1"><i>Posted via Mobile Device</i></font>


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

CincyBluesFan said:


> You're kind of wondering if the grass would have been greener if you had had more experiences in the past. Let me tell you, it isn't. Think about this. Your wife had a lot of choices from her younger years but she chose you. None of them could do it for her. You did. You won. You were better than anyone else she had ever dated. Be confident about that my man and stop doubting yourself. This is all small stuff. Take it from a guy married 29 years and counting to the greatest wife ever, never sweat the small stuff.


OP, read this^^^^^ Now read it every morning when you wake up and greet the day with a smile. Letting the past ruin the present is a fools game. You have this moment and a choice to be happy or not. Choose happy.


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## Marriedwithdogs (Jan 29, 2015)

imperfectworld said:


> Let me have another go at this...with the caveat that since I am loopy enough to have been thinking about this for 3 years and am currently in weekly therapy and meds, if I sound crazy I actually am. I enjoy discussion forums and especially this one though.
> 
> Basically I am giving my wife cred for being discreet in discussing her past. This is like visiting an unemployed friend - you don't go over there and brag about your new Audi. She knew I had pain in not having past relationships, it didn't bother her, and she wasn't going to rub it in my face that she had past boyfriends.
> 
> ...


It's always hardest for the man to adjust once the kids arrive. Many husbands feel like their wife has changed after the birth of a child, and grieve a point in time when he was her everything. I don't get it, (how a man can be jealous of his child or not expect his wife to change, as in become motherly)but it happens and it's a real issue. So maybe that's the real issue and not pinning for a different past.

Some of my best memories and best times were before I lost my virginity. Sex is just a small part in the grand scheme of things.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MarriedDude said:


> Wow...we are the same age OP..I've been married 24 years. I can relate somewhat on looking back either reminiscing about the fun stuff or lamenting the dumb a$$ stuff that i've done.
> 
> It sounds like you are making some progress with therapy...so I just have a few questions and things to consider...
> 
> ...


:iagree: those are some very loaded statements. It would help if the OP would expand on them.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

IW,

Speaking as someone who has battled RJ for decades let me share some thoughts. You are correct. You are better off not knowing anything. I did not know anything and I never asked but everything leaked out over time. I cannot make that stuff go away. It was poison.

My impression is that your current circumstances (LD wife with toddler) are triggering these thoughts and feelings. Your wife is protecting you. She knows you and is concerned for you and your emotional well being and likely believes anything she will share will devastate you. Trust me if she gave you the details of her past you will not be satiated by this but then you will second guess. Was that all there was? Is she telling the complete truth?

Just stop! What you need to focus on is your current intimate connection. You need her more now than you ever have. Let her know. Help her to understand. The decrease in your physical intimacy is damaging your emotional intimacy.

Get your wife on this board and have her read from Anon Pink, Simply Amorous and Faithful Wife. They completely get the critical nature of physical intimacy in a marriage. Your wife's past (and I use that term loosely based on your information) is not the issue here.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

imperfectworld said:


> I’ve been in an OK marriage for years, but I am doing therapy now because for the past three years I can’t stop obsessing about my “dry years” in high school and college. Zero relationship history.
> 
> When I met my wife at 23, she was the first everything to me, including my first kiss. In her shrewd kindness she was vague about her past relationships - and was technically a virgin. No doubt I got extremely lucky there.
> 
> ...


Have you talked with your therapist about this? What does he or she say?


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

imperfectworld said:


> I haven’t felt retroactive jealousy too much [...] I have tried to get details from her about those past relationships [...] it kind of bugs me and makes my imagination wander.


You are seriously deluding yourself if you think you are not suffering from "retroactive jealousy". Although, in your case, your jealousy is not over things that did happen in her past relationships, but what your mind "wanders" into believing about her past relationships, since she wisely not telling you about these.

Retroactive jealousy is a concept I have a difficult time wrapping my head around, as it is a completely foreign concept to me. Why what your wife did sexually, before she met you, should bother you, I cannot understand, as long as otherwise you collectively find your sex life fulfilling and rewarding and can bond as a couple though it. If anything, you should be thankful she was a complete slvt before meeting you, because it taught her the necessary skillz to please a man sexually, and you didn't have to "teach" her anything.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

CincyBluesFan said:


> You're kind of wondering if the grass would have been greener if you had had more experiences in the past. Let me tell you, it isn't. Think about this. Your wife had a lot of choices from her younger years but she chose you. None of them could do it for her. You did. You won. You were better than anyone else she had ever dated. Be confident about that my man and stop doubting yourself. This is all small stuff. Take it from a guy married 29 years and counting to the greatest wife ever, never sweat the small stuff.


As a guy on the other side I also concur. I would love to be in your or the OPs shoes and married to and having been with one woman. I am a commitment kinda guy and prefer that over dating and sleeping Around. While true it can sound fun. The reality is you eek through life with no one sharing your impotant moments. What they do share is thier bodies but that's about it. No history, little connection. Most the women I meet are coming out of divorces themselves. They did the whole family thing...they aren't interested anymore and it sucks. 

Point being op ups and downs to everything. I wish I had made better decision in my youth so I could be in your position. Grass is always greener


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Obsessing over the past robs you of your current moment.
You havent "missed out" on anything.

The current feeling set you have is a trigger to your subconscious that is playing of your own perception of yourself as sexually innocent or 'not knowledgable". The drop off in sexually frequency woke up that nagging doubt and you have chosen to listen to it.

Now it has you and you are feeding it in hopes of solving it.

These things dont solve by feeding. They solve by understanding what feeds it and then stopping it. It may never go away but if you acknowledge it you should be able to get it under control.

Chances are this thing was with you LONG before you met your wife.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening imperfectworld
I had very limited dating experience before I met my (future) wife. I understand how it can seem that you are missing out. Dating looks like so much fun - especially in movies.

When I talk to friends though, dating is only fun when it is with someone who is a very good match. Otherwise it can be ten types of misery. 

You found someone who was a match and you married her. Great. No go on some dates with her and enjoy.


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

I wish I could reply to all the messages, they have been super helpful.

I think the common theme, which must be true, is that although these painful memories were stirred up by my present situation, they aren't what needs healing. What actually needs attention (and since everything else in the marriage is pretty good), is the sex. Which is a big learning for me as I in my only intimate relationship and tend to think others make too much of a big deal of sex. My therapist has already started to drill into this too. She's a couples therapist as well so I have a path to the solution with her.


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

imperfectworld said:


> I’ve been in an OK marriage for years, but I am doing therapy now because for the past three years I can’t stop obsessing about my “dry years” in high school and college. Zero relationship history.
> 
> When I met my wife at 23, she was the first everything to me, including my first kiss. In her shrewd kindness she was vague about her past relationships - and was technically a virgin. No doubt I got extremely lucky there.
> 
> ...


Your story is almost equivalent to mine. I, too had no sexual experience before meeting my wife at 25. She, on the other hand was on the extreme other end of that spectrum - sexually active since 12, first-time mother at 14, plenty of men since then and before me. The difference between you and I is that I want to know nothing about her sexual past - as I am a fairly jealous, insecure type, none of that information would be helpful to me in any way. But like you, I greatly regret not dating anyone in high school and college, and combined with the decline of my marriage to its present miserable state and my hatred of my current professional status, I really wish I could do something to make up for those lost years, like have an affair or 50. But I can't, for obvious reasons (and because I am still the same ugly, socially inept person I was back in hs and college).


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Canario, I am sure you are not ugly. Very few people are ugly.

Buck up!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Have you read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover? It might be a big help to you.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Your wife doesn't talk about her past experiences because she wasn't a virgin when you met her and doesn't want to hurt your feelings. I think she told you that because she believed that's what you wanted to hear. 6 relationships, 19 yo and she didn't close the deal? Total rubbish.... 

It really shouldn't matter to you though and if it does then that's your issue not hers. Whatever she did before she met you (as long as it's wasn't dangerous, immoral or criminal) is honestly none of your business. You're living in the past and if you continue to do so, you will squander a present many people wish they had.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

ElCanario said:


> I really wish I could do something to make up for those lost years, like have an affair or 50. But I can't, for obvious reasons (and because I am still the same ugly, socially inept person I was back in hs and college).


The only thing preventing you from having 50 affairs is being ugly and inept? 

Come on.... dude.... What is wrong with you?


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

I've been having this midlife crisis since I was 21.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I started the before nursery school. 

re: what you did or didn't experience
I know a guy who a virgin who never had a girlfriend until he graduated from college. His wife didn't have much sexual experience but certainly she had had sex and kissed other men. The guy accepted his lack of experience. His SIL was rather promiscuous and her husband had affairs with strippers. That marriage didn't last. The guy who married as a virgin is still married.

Sex can be good, bad or great. But the difference between good and great sex is pretty small. If you and your wife had good sex that ought to be satisfying enough. But an almost sexless marriage for three years? That's a good reason to consider divorce.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

To echo #31, if you fall behind the curve, you either need someone equally or more behind the curve or to do your best not to get hung up on it.

I accept that almost any woman I date will have started having sex at an earlier age than I did. Even controlling for the simple math that confident boys start earlier and confident girls start later, if a woman didn't have sex by 20-21, she most likely a.) is from a extremely religious background or b.) has hang-ups and self-image issues that exceed mine. Neither category has much appeal to me, so I have to get over it.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Your biggest issue is your sex life with your wife. Read about sexual satisfaction in marriage and the effect that it has on your psyche and well being. Your confidence is low, rumination on the past is high, feeling of love and closeness with your wife is low.

Those are all common feelings for a partner who has less sex than they need in marriage. I suggest you read because knowledge is power. You can't go back in time obviously but you have a whole future ahead of you and no reason to look back or to feel despair.

Going to therapy is great. Figure out your therapeutic goals. I don't think they should be things that concentrate on the feelings you articulated. These feelings are surrogates for the real issues? Feelings of inadequacy, inferiority, and feeling that you don't deserve what you want? 

You may not have changed enough from that shy young man you were as a teen and young adult. It may take some independence from your wife. Decide on something you want to accomplish - competent skier, runner, swimmer, Spanish speaker, anything new. Then do it. Accomplish things that are outside of your comfort zone. Invite your wife along. If she does not come, do it anyway, this is for you. A man with a plan, a sense of claiming a mountain and succeeding. 

Approach the sexual problem with a plan too. Find out about sexuality first, identify the main problem and get a plan together. BTW- doing dishes will not help get sex but not doing your fair share of the household duties will hurt. 

Can you give more info on the nature of your sex life? Does your wife have orgasms, masturbate, how did you both learn how to have sex?


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

I think I can top that - didn't date at all through HS or college (had one girl I met at a bar in college and went back to her place to make out and fool around but no sex). Didn't have my first real date until 25, first relationship at 28 (lasted six months), then didn't have a date for four and a half years until the friend I hung out with (who didn't date either) met his now-wife (a royal *****, BTW) - decided to try internet dating and had some dates, one of the women right before my wife became my first sexual experience at age 34, then my wife. My wife has only had two other sexual partners, and I honestly could care less. 

Point is - don't sweat it. That's all in the past, and your dwelling on it could damage your relationship.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

imperfectworld said:


> I’ve been in an OK marriage for years, but I am doing therapy now because for the past three years I can’t stop obsessing about my “dry years” in high school and college. Zero relationship history.
> 
> When I met my wife at 23, she was the first everything to me, including my first kiss. In her shrewd kindness she was vague about her past relationships - and was technically a virgin. No doubt I got extremely lucky there.
> 
> ...


Imperfect, get over it. It sounds as you’ve been blessed in ways so many here would give their eye teeth to have. 

Dude, I wanted to retire a millionaire by my mid-thirties and here I am still doing the work-a-day gig in my 50’s.

Oh well.

Life is to learn from not to live in. Pull the car out of the spin and get yourself going forward. Throwing time, money and angst into therapy for what coulda’/woulda’/shoulda’ been is a waste.

Get your head in the game and focus on what is going to be!

Life is good my Brother. Look around and you will see!


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

intheory said:


> No, Catherine. OP should goad his wife 24/7 about every detail and nuance of her sexual history. That will bring him closure and confidence.
> 
> JUST KIDDING!!!
> 
> ...


It is a great post, and not the only one either in this thread.

I am still here, and some progress has been made. First, the sex has picked up a little bit and it does really help "keep me in the present." 

Secondly, as part of the "homework" for therapy I have written a letter to myself for each year from 7th to 12th grade. This is basically the kind of advice I was missing because I had no male role models, brothers, etc. to help me while I was coming of age.

These treatments feel great to do and liberate me from the feeling that I coulda/shoulda done things different and instead were just the inevitable results of my conditions.

But I must admit I am still haunted after I've driven home from the clear revelations of a therapy session, the sun sets, the lights go down, my wife is lightly snoring, and I am awake listening to the clock down the hall. I can't enrich my past experience any more than I could bring my Dad back from terminal cancer. It is a part of who I am that I linger on these things a bit more than most, and will carry them stubbornly to the grave.

I will make damn sure this will never happen to my son, even if I have to get other dad's to help since I never really cracked the code.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Sorry. I'm doing what I HATE others doing: posting with only reading most of the first page.

Here's your problem: she doesn't like sex with you but she did with other men (sort of, I guess :scratchhead. Am I close? Your problem (your real one, not the one you think you have) is that she does not want to be intimate with you. Work on that. Worry about that. If you fix THAT, I think what she did with other men 25 years ago will be less significant. 

My fear is that you aren't going to be able to fix that. That's bad. At that point I'll say you are only 43. You can start over. Trust me: There is a WORLD of difference getting back into the dating world at 43 vs 53. Women are intimate with the men they love. They are not if they're checking out of the marriage.


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## TheColonel (Mar 2, 2015)

Mmmm. I can sympathize with the OP. I'm sort of in the same position. 35 and still a virgin. I can relate to the feelings of having missed out. The girls in high school and college were HOT HOT HOT as hell and it sucks that I missed out on it. Having said that 35 is not too old to have sex with nice looking women. Who knows maybe I can make up for it? 

If I did meet a woman and we start having a relationship, I don't think I'd really care about her past. I'm not even sure if I'd even ask her. Hell at this point I don't think I'd even tell her about my lack of past! 

If you don't mind me asking you OP why did you marry your wife if you still felt the need to sow your wild oats? 



imperfectworld said:


> I will make damn sure this will never happen to my son, even if I have to get other dad's to help since I never really cracked the code.


This is a bad idea. I used to have a football coach who would love talking about all the hot girls in our high school. It was pretty weird. Even weirder was that he had two teenage sons. I don't even want to think what those family dinners with his son's girlfriends were like.

I don't think your sons are going to want to tell you about their dating or sex lives. I mean you're going to come off as creepy and your sons will start avoiding you. You can't live vicariously through somebody else. It's just not fair. If you need to make up for your past you need to find some other way! 



ChargingCharlie said:


> I think I can top that - didn't date at all through HS or college (had one girl I met at a bar in college and went back to her place to make out and fool around but no sex). Didn't have my first real date until 25, first relationship at 28 (lasted six months), then didn't have a date for four and a half years until the friend I hung out with (who didn't date either) met his now-wife (a royal *****, BTW) - decided to try internet dating and had some dates, one of the women right before my wife became my first sexual experience at age 34, then my wife.


How in the world did you date a woman for 6 months and not have sex?


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> The only thing preventing you from having 50 affairs is being ugly and inept?
> 
> Come on.... dude.... What is wrong with you?


Unfortunately, I think there's a lot wrong with me. What were you asking me though? Those who are ugly can get away with it if they are adept at taking with and/or seducing women. If you're ugly and inept, though, you're pretty much SOL.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

He means why are you willing to cheat on your wife? What is she doing to you that she deserves to be treated like that? Is it because she loves you and married you even though you are, in your words, "ugly and inept"? Does she withhold sex from you? Or is it all just you wanting to "catch up" with her? Because, if that's what it is, that is crazy. You are going to, or would if you thought you could, devastate the woman who loves you just to get your count up? 

I've been with 20ish women. Not a lot but not a few either. a) It fixes nothing with regards to how you feel about your wife's past and b) random sex with women you don't care about really isn't all that great. Much better to focus on making love to your WIFE, fvcking your WIFE, romancing your WIFE. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Experience with lots of other women means sh1t when it comes to pleasing your wife. Experience with your WIFE on the other hand has value beyond measure.

So unless your only focus is upping your number, cheating would be pointless.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Absolutely agree with I Don't Know. I am unbelievable in bed with Mrs. Conan because I have been molesting her for over 23 years. &#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56833;&#55357;&#56833;

Get good at "dancing" with one partner. Applies to romance and every other aspect of relationships.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

I Don't Know said:


> He means why are you willing to cheat on your wife?


Oh......I'm sorry. Why am I willing? Because she won't have sex with me and hasn't wanted to for years.



> What is she doing to you that she deserves to be treated like that?


See above. 



> Is it because she loves you and married you even though you are, in your words, "ugly and inept"? Does she withhold sex from you?


She doesn't want to be with me anymore. The only reason I resist is because I want to be a father to my children. But I am very sex-starved and affection deprived. She may have loved me at one point, but when it became apparent that I was not going to be a millionaire, that cooled off pretty quickly.




> Or is it all just you wanting to "catch up" with her? Because, if that's what it is, that is crazy. You are going to, or would if you thought you could, devastate the woman who loves you just to get your count up?


Nah, that's irrelevant. I don't care about what she did before me. I just want her to do _me._ And that's not happening.



> I've been with 20ish women. Not a lot but not a few either. a) It fixes nothing with regards to how you feel about your wife's past and b) *random sex with women you don't care about really isn't all that great*.


I dunno, but I do know that it beats no sex at all.



> Much better to focus on making love to your WIFE, fvcking your WIFE, romancing your WIFE. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Experience with lots of other women means sh1t when it comes to pleasing your wife. Experience with your WIFE on the other hand has value beyond measure.


I agree with all of this...........but it's out of my hands. Pun intended?



> So unless your only focus is upping your number, cheating would be pointless.


Well, yes and no. Cheating is certainly not something I would want, but it beats the alternative.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Fair enough. I didn't see, or forgot seeing, that she doesn't want sex with you. I understand the allure of cheating in these situations. The problem is you want to be there for your kids. That's probably not going to happen when you get caught, so at that point it's a wash vs. getting divorced. Plus now your kids see you as a cheater who hurt their mom.

Whatever you decide make sure it's something you can live with if and when the worst case happens.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

TheColonel said:


> Mmmm. I can sympathize with the OP. I'm sort of in the same position. 35 and still a virgin. I can relate to the feelings of having missed out. The girls in high school and college were HOT HOT HOT as hell and it sucks that I missed out on it. Having said that 35 is not too old to have sex with nice looking women. Who knows maybe I can make up for it?
> 
> If I did meet a woman and we start having a relationship, I don't think I'd really care about her past. I'm not even sure if I'd even ask her. Hell at this point I don't think I'd even tell her about my lack of past!
> 
> ...


Good question - she was a petite little cutie, but we just didn't do it. We would make out in bed, etc, and got naked, but no sex. We would sleep at each other's places all the time.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I'd almost call this buyer's remorse for a married guy. When you're dating everything is fine and you tend to overlook things that are a red flag. They when you get to one of these red flag items, she tells you a lie and you go on like nothing happened, assuming she told you the truth. Then when you marry her you find out some of the non-negotiable red flag items are not exactly as she told you, such as a prolific sexual past. I think in those situations a guy should be able to get an annulment (without payments to her) since you made your decision to marry her based on lies. Like I have said in other posts, these days it's all about who plays who the best...not love and honor anymore.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Imperfect - we all are. I'm 38 with very little past dating experience. Missed out on learning how to talk with, or even interact with girls I was physically attracted to. At 16 I had a number of girls potentially interested in me, one of them asked me out and I spent a 7 year relationship with her. Eventually we did the smart thing and ended it since it was a dead end and had been for a couple years for both of us.

Then I went two years without even barely talking to a girl. Never asked for a number, not even a name, incapable of flirting, not even any physical contact (had it even been close I probably would have hover-handed her). I'm deeply introverted but not exactly shy, just sat around waiting for something to happen.

Eventually a co-worker suggested dating a former co-worker of ours and her and another set us up on a blind date. Soon after we were married, had a home, had a child and I was genuinely thrilled and happy with life. That nagging feeling of knowing I missed out on not just good experiences but the formative skills and abilities to date was always there just like you though.

Not long after, the now ex W experienced her 7 year itch and decided it wasn't the life for her to be married to me. Divorce is very effective at bringing all your insecurities out. I am much different now, after divorce I vowed to change myself. I braved a number of fears, dated a bit, flirted a bit (more like akwardly fumbled though weird interactions) asked a few numbers. I have come to realize that I am still the same, I still lack the skills to do it well, but I can accept that. I also decided to make my relationships as genuine as they can be - and it helps that I connected with a woman (from my past) that has helped me live this way - authentically. I still have insecurities galore, and they make it challenging to craft life into something I take pride in, look forward to or make interesting, but that is the meal the universe ended up putting on my plate.

You can't go back in time and get a do-over. If you believe in reincarnation then just try to remember what you've learned for next time, but at some point you just have to let the past be, accept the present focus on your strengths and laugh at the rest. Good luck, I know it can be a downer if you think too much about it, so put your mind to something more useful to you!


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

No regrets, bud 

There's lots of things I didn't do when I was younger and missed out on, too. Everyone has those thoughts. 

Just keep moving forward. I'm older than you and I feel like doing everything. Learn to play piano. Take martial arts. Join clubs. Go on dates 

In reality you didn't miss much. Looking back, I never had the cash to do what I would daydream of doing if I could go back. My "aged" economic status and wisdom make things much more interesting. 

As a story...
I went out to a club with the CEO of the company. Lots of younger women there. I made the comment of what I would do if I could go back. 

He said you'd never be in executive management if you did all the things that was in your dreams if you did go back, because you'd be focused on the puzzy instead of your career. 
So just do them now. Just with older, wiser, just as beautiful,but more socially intelligent women. 

(I'm divorced, btw)

Keep moving forward. Your future is what's going to be exciting for you.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

And in your case, it's not to late to do them with your wife. Make it fun for her too.


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

alphaomega said:


> And in your case, it's not to late to do them with your wife. Make it fun for her too.


I've come to realize my wife might actually harbor a lot of "guilt" (for lack of a better word) that I didn't have the fun she did in the day. 

Bizarre story, on vacation in Paris nearly 10 years ago I went on one of those night bike ride tours with my wife. At some point the riding group split us up a bit and I ended up talking with a college girl and spending a couple hours riding in the back of the group with her. When my wife and I got back to the hotel she actually said this - "I was jealous but when I saw you were enjoying talking with her. I decided to ride with other people and give you your time. You had so little fun in your earlier life."


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

The moment you don't let it bother you is the moment it won't bother her anymore


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## TheColonel (Mar 2, 2015)

imperfectworld said:


> I've come to realize my wife might actually harbor a lot of "guilt" (for lack of a better word) that I didn't have the fun she did in the day.
> 
> Bizarre story, on vacation in Paris nearly 10 years ago I went on one of those night bike ride tours with my wife. At some point the riding group split us up a bit and I ended up talking with a college girl and spending a couple hours riding in the back of the group with her. When my wife and I got back to the hotel she actually said this - "I was jealous but when I saw you were enjoying talking with her. I decided to ride with other people and give you your time. You had so little fun in your earlier life."


Would your wife be open to letting you have a open marriage? Serious question.

I have to say though it's a bit bizarre that your wife knows that you regret not sleeping with enough women when you were younger. I imagine most women would have breaken up with you over it.


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

TheColonel said:


> Would your wife be open to letting you have a open marriage? Serious question.
> 
> I have to say though it's a bit bizarre that your wife knows that you regret not sleeping with enough women when you were younger. I imagine most women would have breaken up with you over it.


When I say "dating" I literally mean the old fashioned version. I was and am totally at peace that I was a virgin when I got married. No, what eats at me is stuff that is inconceivable for maybe 99.9% of people on TAM - like the first hug I ever got was at my high school graduation. I don't want to bore with details, but I grew up with a mentally and physically abusive mother who deliberated stunted my social growth - and I was/am a natural introvert on top of that. It's a pretty extreme and unusual situation.


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## TheColonel (Mar 2, 2015)

imperfectworld said:


> When I say "dating" I literally mean the old fashioned version. I was and am totally at peace that I was a virgin when I got married. No, what eats at me is stuff that is inconceivable for maybe 99.9% of people on TAM - like the first hug I ever got was at my high school graduation. I don't want to bore with details, but I grew up with a mentally and physically abusive mother who deliberated stunted my social growth - and I was/am a natural introvert on top of that. It's a pretty extreme and unusual situation.


I'm not sure I understand you then... I mean I can understand missing out on sex but a hug? I'm not sure what you're getting at here..


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

I have nothing but compassion for the OP. Not to the same extreme but I grew up being more shy, more introverted and less sexually experienced than the avergae kid - I'd say - all the way through my junior year in high school.

Having not had full-on sex until she met her husband to be, his wife was not exactly the most experienced 23-year old woman one might run accross. so in relative terms they were both inexperienced. So...why can't she answer his questions??
do you suppose it might mainly be her protecting her? vice her protecting him?? might that be a possiibility, at least?

Sorry but if she is so loving and caring.....well....how does that equate to the lack of sex for the past 3 years? not suggesting she's evil incarnate for going through a sexual down-period but let's not nominate her for the Nobel Peace Prize based on her refusal to answer his questions. because it kinda seems to me that her NOT giving him the information is actually NOT helping him. More the opposite.

OP - just explain to your wife that though you are troubled to a degree, that you are also an adult, and a father and a husband --and that if you weren't interested in the answers you wouldn't be asking her the (fill in expletive her) questions!


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## ElCanario (Nov 11, 2013)

TheColonel said:


> I'm not sure I understand you then... I mean I can understand missing out on sex but a hug? I'm not sure what you're getting at here..


I think he's saying that he never got a chance to experience normal interaction with the opposite sex - no going out on dates, no holding hands, no kissing; in that context, even the thought of sex wasn't a possibility. I was the same way.


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

ElCanario said:


> I think he's saying that he never got a chance to experience normal interaction with the opposite sex - no going out on dates, no holding hands, no kissing; in that context, even the thought of sex wasn't a possibility. I was the same way.


Very well put and accurate. I'm sorry you wrote these words from personal experience.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think of this in the same way that I think of the fact that I had to work all through college and didn't really get the "college experience". Didn't party, didn't date around.....

But as someone already posted you don't get a do over. Your life unfolds the way it does.....there are plenty of people in the world who didn't get nearly the experiences in life you did get. So you play the hand you're dealt and trust that the universe unfolded the way it should. Attempting a do over, not that I'm suggesting you're looking to do that, only makes one look foolish and isn't going to replicate what one missed. I'm 41 now, how would I look if I suddenly decided I had to forsake my family so I could go party to make up for what I missed?

Again, not suggesting you're looking for this do over.

I know several people that had weight loss surgery and immediately started stuffing themselves into teenybopper clothing and trying to recapture the things they felt they'd missed as severely overweight young people, but in the end they just ended up looking foolish and it didn't work anyway.

Try to be happy with that you have remember that your life has unfolded the way it should. Nothing good ever comes from looking backwards unless it's to learn lessons or enjoy memories. The way ahead is forward.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

imperfectworld said:


> I’ve been in an OK marriage for years, but I am doing therapy now because for the past three years I can’t stop obsessing about my “dry years” in high school and college. Zero relationship history.
> 
> When I met my wife at 23, she was the first everything to me, including my first kiss. In her shrewd kindness she was vague about her past relationships - and was technically a virgin. No doubt I got extremely lucky there.
> 
> ...


Funny, because I think the vast majority of us older folks (long out of our teenage years) feel exactly the same way you do, though sometimes about different things. We wish we would have taken more chances, done this or that, travelled more, had more sex, saved more money, focused more on school, spent more time with our family. Whatever. This is a VERY common thought for almost everybody.

I have regrets about my past, and I think most people do. If I focused more on one or two things when I was 15, or 18, or even 22, my life could have been a lot different. Hindsight is 20/20. I can pinpoint a dozen times where I took the "wrong" path, or missed an opportunity, and it impacted my life in some way or other.

I started dating my ex wife when I was 18, and we broke up when I was 33. My entire 20's were spent with one woman. Instead of playing the field, doing the spring break thing, travelling, experimenting, etc. I committed to a relationship, one that eventually ended in heartbreak.

I can't get my 20's back, and I imagine I feel an awful lot of the same things you feel.

It is what it is, and we can either embrace our choices, or use them as an excuse to be miserable. Life brings us in different directions, and we have to go with the flow.


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## TheColonel (Mar 2, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> But as someone already posted you don't get a do over.


I think it depends actually. I'm in the same position as OP, the only difference is is that I'm not married, meaning I can still make up for it if I wanted to. Of course it won't be exactly the same as it was back then but hey I can make the best of it. But yeah if I was married and tied down then I'd just have to live with it.


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

alexm said:


> Funny, because I think the vast majority of us older folks (long out of our teenage years) feel exactly the same way you do, though sometimes about different things. We wish we would have taken more chances, done this or that, travelled more, had more sex, saved more money, focused more on school, spent more time with our family. Whatever. This is a VERY common thought for almost everybody.


I understand this. I think my specific problem is somewhat unusual but not worse (and better than many) things other people deal with.

So how does it play it in the end? If I'm 43 and this started when I was 40, does it just eventually fade? Does it improve with a better sex life (as many seem to feel in this thread)? Do you somehow make peace with it? Or do you simply take the regret all the way to the grave?

P.S. There's a person behind my pain - my abusive and narcissistic mother. Long story but she is largely responsible for stunting my development. She is 84 now. I've sometimes wondered if I will feel much better when she is gone.


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## TheColonel (Mar 2, 2015)

So whatever happened to OP? What did he decide eventually?


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

I believe he owns a motel along the old highway, and enjoys his taxidermy hobby.

Pretty well adjusted now-a-days.


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## imperfectworld (Jan 18, 2015)

TheColonel said:


> So whatever happened to OP? What did he decide eventually?


I'm still here, thanks for asking. Nothing really happened, other than turning 44 . I'm more precise about how I feel and about why it happened. I ventured on to some other topical forums on the web such as mental health, social anxiety. Interesting stories if not any perfect matches to my own history.

My marriage is about the same. Sex life (since everyone here is obsessed with that, is up a notch - not sure why).


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