# Wife & "Girls Night Out" .. Is It Me?



## dondistrict

Hello . I am a 33 year old married man . Me and my wife have been married 5 years , but have been in relations since the early 90's . We have a teenage son together , which is both of our only child . 

Shortly after we decided to marry , she begin to hang out with her single girlfreinds and maybe twice a month would go out for a night on the town .. Skimpy dresses , the most revealing clothing she could get away with wearing out of the house , make up , high heels .. and drinking, driving , dancing and lord knows what else . 

This behaviour has caused HUGE arguments between us . It troubles me to have MY wife be the only married woman amongst her partygoing freinds , in the club doing as the Romans do . 

She shys away from freindships with married woman and aggressively seeks to rekindle freindships with childhood freinds on Facebook and such , who are down with going out for a night on the town . 

Im very tired of dealing with this . A few times a year wouldnt bother me much , but I dont feel that the definition of marriage should have to be adjusted just so that MY wife can excuse her wreckless behaviour . Marriage is marriage . Either play by the rules or be a grownup and get out of the union , so that you can freely explore the life of a single club hopper .. 

Im sure somebody has an opinion to share with me .. Please Do!


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## Entropy3000

I have no idea why you have put up with this for five years. That sure makes dealing with this much more difficult. I am also not sure why even a few times a year is ok to go out and be single. This would be unacceptable to me. A deal breaker.

So, this is a boundary issue. Go get His Needs Her Needs and do that as a couple. Part of it is to discuss, define and agree upon boundaries. 

Where do they go for thier GNO? How late are they out?

Basically she is not going on a Girls Night Out. She is going out for a Girls Night Out without her husband to prowl with the other single women. This would be unacceptable even if the other women were married. The fact they are single is way over the top IMHO.

So she is out dancing and drinking with other men while wearing very skimpy attire. 

I find it interesting that this started after you got married.


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## dondistrict

She usually goes to bar/lounge type of spots .. night clubs or restaurants that are gathering spots for single people like TGIF's or Ruby Tuesdays on a Friday night . Her average time of getting back in the house is usually around 1:30am if I am being a jerk about her being out . If I dont set any boundaries then she will easily stay out to 3 or later . 

She goes months without drinking and is a very inexperienced alcohol drinker , but she drinks on most of these GNO outings and she experiments with driving home "only-buzzed" in her amatuer-alcoholic opinion lol. 

She swears she never wants to lose me and I love her and being with her , but the frustration I have from these outings tend to put me in a bad mood (for atleast the next day) , and she wakes up the next morning and responds to me being distant with : "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?" , like we havent discussed my dislike of her "nightlife" well over 100 times since being married .


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## Entropy3000

TGIFs and Ruby Tuesdays are pretty normal and tame for GNOs as they go. She could easily be home by nine or ten doing these.

But are you familiar with the clubs she goes to where she is dancning with other men?

So you need to do as I suggest with the HNHN stuff if you are serious. If she is doing things that make you uncomfortable that is disrespectful and a level of being unfaithful.

Basically if you have talked 100s of times about this and the behavior is the same then you need to put some consequences around your words. She does not respect you or care about your feelings.

So the restaurants seem pretty harmless in themselves. Skimpy attire I would have a problem with no matter where the destination is. But what one person might call skimpy another might call reasonable.


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## dondistrict

Well , is it a bad thing for me as a husband to not like/permit my wife to attend clubs at all . I agree that Ruby Tuesdays etc. are cool spots for a GNO up until a certain time . After a certain time the element and intentions of the people out and about begin to shift , even at places like those . There's alcohol , pretty woman and horny men .. even at those kind of establishments . 

Is it mandatory to allow my wife to put herself in these situations. Of course I am insecure and suspicious about what she may be doing . She gives the usual responses when questioned about it but the truth is , once she is out the door at that time of night, she is leaving herself wide open for that kind of speculation from me . Isnt that irresponsible on her behalf or am I being too controlling?


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## dondistrict

For 1 thing , I truly feel as her husband an obligation to protect her and make sure she's safe , but It seems like I am expected to take a few hours of from protecting her , so she can go to these places and migle with all types of strangers at times when I feel she should be in the home with me as a married couple.


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## dondistrict

And yes , I specifically asked her at one point that she NOT dance with strangers at clubs , and a couple nights later a picture of her popped up on Facebook of her grinding her ass on a mans penis in a club . I asked her this as she was on her way out to said club , and in the picture was the outfit she was wearing that night that . What am I doing? smh


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## morituri

dondistrict said:


> And yes , I specifically asked her at one point that she NOT dance with strangers at clubs , and a couple nights later *a picture of her popped up on Facebook of her grinding her ass on a mans penis in a club *. I asked her this as she was on her way out to said club , and in the picture was the outfit she was wearing that night that . What am I doing? smh


Why the hell are you married to this woman to begin with? If she truly loved you she would not be engaging in this kind of disrespectful behavior.

Face it. Your wife has been cuckolding you for 5 years and you are too scared to face the truth and leave her.


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## dondistrict

This might be the tricky part though ... to my knowledge , she is rather shy sexually and i am her only sex partner EVER! I pray that I am not being overly naive , but we were high school sweethearts in the early 90's and have only been seperated on a few occasions since then , a year or so probably being the longest seperation between us in 14 years (since our son was born) ... 

There is a nother guy , who she claims to have befreinded during one of our separations about 7 or 8 years ago , and maybe 2 years back I discovered a message from him on her facebook , requersting that she get a hotel room and lie to me to get out of the house ... when she found out I read the message she immediately filed divorce .. I left and within two weeks she had nulled the divorce and was begging for me to come home .. I came back , but there are still unresolved trust issues , and it seems like she wont slow down her social life long enough to help me fix this problem between us . 

After that happened I insisted she delete her FB page , she does for a month or so then reactivates it .. She still has a FB page to this day .


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## dondistrict

Greatly appreciate your insight !!


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## morituri

dondistrict said:


> 2 years back I discovered a message from him on her facebook , requesting that she get a hotel room and lie to me to get out of the house ... *when she found out I read the message she immediately filed divorce *.. I left and within two weeks she had nulled the divorce and was begging for me to come home .. I came back , but there are still unresolved trust issues , and it seems like she wont slow down her social life long enough to help me fix this problem between us .


Do you need a semi truck to run over you before you face the truth?

I divorced my ex-wife - whom I loved with all my heart and soul - when I discovered a video of her having sex with an OM. Is this what you are waiting for?


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## aug

dondistrict said:


> This might be the tricky part though ... to my knowledge ,* she is rather shy sexually and i am her only sex partner EVER!* I pray that I am not being overly naive , but we were high school sweethearts in the early 90's and have only been seperated on a few occasions since then , a year or so probably being the longest seperation between us in 14 years (since our son was born) ...
> 
> There is a nother guy , who she claims to have befreinded during one of our separations about 7 or 8 years ago , and maybe 2 years back I discovered a message from him on her facebook , requersting that she get a hotel room and lie to me to get out of the house ... when she found out I read the message she immediately filed divorce .. I left and within two weeks she had nulled the divorce and was begging for me to come home .. I came back , but there are still unresolved trust issues , and it seems like she wont slow down her social life long enough to help me fix this problem between us .
> 
> After that happened I insisted she delete her FB page , she does for a month or so then reactivates it .. She still has a FB page to this day .




I dont know why you still think she's sexually shy?

She dresses provocatively. She grinded another man's penis. She has more than 5 years of practice.

She has checked out of the marriage and is most likely cheating on you big time.

Why dont you have her followed when she goes on her nights out? Hire a private investigator or have someone takes pictures of her. Get a voice activated recorder planted in her car, taped underneath her seat; or, have one somewhere else where she usually uses the phone.


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## dondistrict

I have a 14 year old son that I have raised in our little traditional family unit since birth . He's a straight A student and I often feel that I wouldnt be able to be as an affective father for him (a young black male growing up in the DC innercity) if I chose to get seperated or divorced from his mother now . 

I do my fair share of spying and for the most part she covers her tracks pretty well after having been busted on FB and enduring that whole messy situation . 

She's managed to do alot better about going out dressed permiscuously(sp) , but she still hangs around single woman who are going out on Saturday nights dressed like high class prostitutes .


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## morituri

Don't hide behind your 14 year old son. He is much more resilient than you give him credit for. My daughters were in their early teens when my first wife, their mother, died of cancer. They went through therapy to overcome the death of their mother and they are now healthy, grown women.

You are not the first nor the last one who has children facing this situation. Do you think your son is best served by this example of marriage you are giving him?


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## dondistrict

No , I often feel very guilty for exposing him to some of the frustrations I may exhibit in regards to my wife/ his mothers relationship . I think some of my frustrations towards W could have possibly already worn off on him ... or he's becoming old enough to notice her dysfunction in this relationship . I won't make it about him though , youre right . 

We've never had therapy , Im wondering if I may be damaged beyond the point of where Marital counseling would make a difference . Im confused , I know .


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## morituri

Marital counseling only works when there is a sincere desire FROM BOTH spouses to resolve marital issues. So in your case marital recovery is not advisable. Nevertheless, from someone who benefited from individual counseling - as well as my daughters -I highly recommend that you and your son avail yourselves of it.


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## michzz

A lot of women put on a persona to their husband that is what they think he wants of them. Your wife knows you want a sexually shy wife.

But that is not really who she is.

Who she really is is a reckless woman who drinks, goes off with random men she meets out dancing and also has a boyfriend on the side.

Not much there for you. If I were you I would leave her and take your son with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

You need to send a PI or a friend to see what she is up to. Woken dnt dress up like that to sit a TGIF. They do ot to get noticed and laid.

Do you have a key logger on the PC and a VAR in her car? 

As fir the FB message, you did well holding your ground. It is beyond belief he filed for divorce for you calling her out for the message you read. Sounds like she might have been stepping out with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

dondistrict said:


> Well , is it a bad thing for me as a husband to not like/permit my wife to attend clubs at all . I agree that Ruby Tuesdays etc. are cool spots for a GNO up until a certain time . After a certain time the element and intentions of the people out and about begin to shift , even at places like those . There's alcohol , pretty woman and horny men .. even at those kind of establishments .
> 
> Is it mandatory to allow my wife to put herself in these situations. Of course I am insecure and suspicious about what she may be doing . She gives the usual responses when questioned about it but the truth is , once she is out the door at that time of night, she is leaving herself wide open for that kind of speculation from me . Isnt that irresponsible on her behalf or am I being too controlling?


I confess that your language to me feels like we are being baited. 

Mandatory - Is there some PC group of folks that will determine what you can and cannot do? No. The bird is in your hands. Why do you put up with it. You did not address that question.

The reason I say being baited is because of the insecure and controlling comments. An insecure man is too weak to stand up for his relationship. A secure would not be afraid to assert himself. He is confident. A weak man tries to control his wife by being passive. 

If a husband is being called insecure, jelaous and controlling the odds are his wife is being unfaithful or is working on being unfaithful. It is not appropriate IMHO for a wife to being going out and taking a break from being married to play with other men. Either you do something about it or you are giving her permission to cuckold you. Your choice.

Jealousy is a hardwired feeling that is there for a reason. A husband gets jealous if he feels his wife is having sex or is in risk of having sex with other men. It is a natural survival feeling. Trust your gut.

Like I said to me this would have been unacceptable and dealt with the very first time. I will not be married to a woman who disrespects me. I will not be married to a woman who dresses inappropriately. I will not be married to a woman who goes out on GNOs to play with other men. A GNO is fine. Ite is a GIRLS night out. No other men. You do not control your woman. You have boundaries. If they are crossed you move on. Otherwise you can end up in an open marriage.

So again. Why do you accept this? The problem is not your wife.


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## Entropy3000

dondistrict said:


> And yes , I specifically asked her at one point that she NOT dance with strangers at clubs , and a couple nights later a picture of her popped up on Facebook of her grinding her ass on a mans penis in a club . I asked her this as she was on her way out to said club , and in the picture was the outfit she was wearing that night that . What am I doing? smh


When a wife does that she is cheating. It is being unfaithful. She is choosing other men over you. She sees you as weak and that you will not do anything about it. She sees these other men as exiting. They are real men who take what they want. Hypergamy.

How to Alleviate Suffering From Female Hypergamy | Hooking Up Smart

Again I would have changed the locks and told her not to come back. Your problem is that you are asking her to stop. She sees it as begging even. You either tell her it is unacceptbale and act or not. She has already done enough that I would divorce her.


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## Entropy3000

dondistrict said:


> This might be the tricky part though ... to my knowledge , she is rather shy sexually and i am her only sex partner EVER! I pray that I am not being overly naive , but we were high school sweethearts in the early 90's and have only been seperated on a few occasions since then , a year or so probably being the longest seperation between us in 14 years (since our son was born) ...
> 
> There is a nother guy , who she claims to have befreinded during one of our separations about 7 or 8 years ago , and maybe 2 years back I discovered a message from him on her facebook , requersting that she get a hotel room and lie to me to get out of the house ... when she found out I read the message she immediately filed divorce .. I left and within two weeks she had nulled the divorce and was begging for me to come home .. I came back , but there are still unresolved trust issues , and it seems like she wont slow down her social life long enough to help me fix this problem between us .
> 
> After that happened I insisted she delete her FB page , she does for a month or so then reactivates it .. She still has a FB page to this day .


She is not shy. She is grinding her ass into other mens c0cks wearing skimpy outfits. She is out with single women and dating other men. She may be shy with you. She is already unfaithful. There is no further digging you need to do. The line has alteady been crossed with your permission for at least five years. Once she got the ring on her finger she felt she had you and will get half of everything you own so she is working on trading up now or at least cake eating. Stop being a doormat.


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## Entropy3000

dondistrict said:


> I have a 14 year old son that I have raised in our little traditional family unit since birth . He's a straight A student and I often feel that I wouldnt be able to be as an affective father for him (a young black male growing up in the DC innercity) if I chose to get seperated or divorced from his mother now .
> 
> I do my fair share of spying and for the most part she covers her tracks pretty well after having been busted on FB and enduring that whole messy situation .
> 
> She's managed to do alot better about going out dressed permiscuously(sp) , but she still hangs around single woman who are going out on Saturday nights dressed like high class prostitutes .


A young male needs a good role model. Seeing his father being cuckolded is a bad model for a young man. Do not hide behind your son.


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## No Divorce!

Don, DO NOT DIVORCE! 

Here's why. 

Although another poster gave examples of how his daugthers recovered after their mothers death, the death of a parent is not the same as 2 living parents divorcing!

Your son is a straight A student? I guarantee you he won't be if you divorce.

Americans are way too "divorce happy". There was a time when couples stayed together for the sake of the kids. What other "sake" is there?

This child was born oow (out of wedlock) and you have married and given him a stable home and family. Do not ruin that for him.

Here's what you do:

1. stop acting as if you care about your wife going out (aloofness is attractive to women).

2. start going out on "boys nights out" with your buddies (if you don't have buddies to hang with, pretend that you do and go out by yourself anyway)

3. continue to be a good father and normal husband, but act as if the girls night out no longer bothers you because you got your own game goin' on.

Try this for a month and then get back to us.

Do not divorce. Only the most severe abuse warrants divorce. Not girls or guys nights out and no, not even an affair.


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## Dax

I have some advice for you. Man up and stop acting like the bi&ch in this relationship. You're like a woman and she's like the guy going out and partying without you. She's probably already having sex with another guy if she hasn't already.

My wife, after we had a child, started going out with her friends a few times without me to clubs at night and I realized, screw that, she's my wife and shouldn't do that. We had huge arguments over it, separated, and then she begged me to get back and part of our agreement was that she would stop going out with her friends without me late at night. If she wanted to go, I'd go with her.

Since then, she hasn't gone out without me and I go along with her and her friends if she does go out. We usually just find a babysitter. A wife going out without you to party on a weekly basis is called a sl&t, and no one wants to be married to a sl&t. Grab your sack and do something about it.


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## Entropy3000

Dax said:


> I have some advice for you. Man up and stop acting like the bi&ch in this relationship. You're like a woman and she's like the guy going out and partying without you. She's probably already having sex with another guy if she hasn't already.
> 
> My wife, after we had a child, started going out with her friends a few times without me to clubs at night and I realized, screw that, she's my wife and shouldn't do that. We had huge arguments over it, separated, and then she begged me to get back and part of our agreement was that she would stop going out with her friends without me late at night. If she wanted to go, I'd go with her.
> 
> Since then, she hasn't gone out without me and I go along with her and her friends if she does go out. We usually just find a babysitter. A wife going out without you to party on a weekly basis is called a sl&t, and no one wants to be married to a sl&t. Grab your sack and do something about it.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## lordmayhem

Entropy3000 said:


> She is not shy. She is grinding her ass into other mens c0cks wearing skimpy outfits. She is out with single women and dating other men. She may be shy with you. She is already unfaithful. There is not further digging you need to do. The line has alteady been crossed with your permission for at least five years. Once she got the ring on her finger she felt she had you and will get half of everything you own so she is working on trading up now or at least cake eating. Stop being a doormat.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

She already scared you with divorce before. Time to kick her to the curb.


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## AFEH

michzz said:


> A lot of women put on a persona to their husband that is what they think he wants of them. Your wife knows you want a sexually shy wife.
> 
> But that is not really who she is.
> 
> Who she really is is a reckless woman who drinks, goes off with random men she meets out dancing and also has a boyfriend on the side.
> 
> Not much there for you. If I were you I would leave her and take your son with you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Rather than multiple personas, it helped me to think schizophrenic. One body with two distinctly individual characters inside of it. Rather than one body, one individual character but two faces or personas.

One person leading two distinctly separate lives. Surely that can only be achieved by a person with two distinctly different personalities.


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## Entropy3000

No Divorce! said:


> Don, DO NOT DIVORCE!
> 
> Here's why.
> 
> Although another poster gave examples of how his daugthers recovered after their mothers death, the death of a parent is not the same as 2 living parents divorcing!
> 
> Your son is a straight A student? I guarantee you he won't be if you divorce.
> 
> Americans are way too "divorce happy". There was a time when couples stayed together for the sake of the kids. What other "sake" is there?
> 
> This child was born oow (out of wedlock) and you have married and given him a stable home and family. Do not ruin that for him.
> 
> Here's what you do:
> 
> 1. stop acting as if you care about your wife going out *(aloofness is attractive to women)*.
> 
> 2. start going out on "boys nights out" with your buddies (if you don't have buddies to hang with, pretend that you do and go out by yourself anyway)
> 
> 3. continue to be a good father and normal husband, but act as if the girls night out no longer bothers you because you got your own game goin' on.
> 
> Try this for a month and then get back to us.
> 
> *Do not divorce. Only the most severe abuse warrants divorce. Not girls or guys nights out and no, not even an affair.*


With all due respect ... totally absurd.

You are defining an open marriage.


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## Entropy3000

AFEH said:


> Rather than multiple personas, it helped me to think schizophrenic. One body with two distinctly individual characters inside of it. Rather than one body, one individual character but two faces or personas.
> 
> One person leading two distinctly separate lives. Surely that can only be achieved by a person with two distinctly different personalities.


I think that is part of the trading up expereince. The way one treats the Beta at home while pursuing the Alpha. Hypergamy.


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## Therealbrighteyes

No Divorce! said:


> Don, DO NOT DIVORCE!
> 
> Here's why.
> 
> Although another poster gave examples of how his daugthers recovered after their mothers death, the death of a parent is not the same as 2 living parents divorcing!
> 
> Your son is a straight A student? I guarantee you he won't be if you divorce.
> 
> Americans are way too "divorce happy". There was a time when couples stayed together for the sake of the kids. What other "sake" is there?
> 
> This child was born oow (out of wedlock) and you have married and given him a stable home and family. Do not ruin that for him.
> 
> Here's what you do:
> 
> 1. stop acting as if you care about your wife going out (aloofness is attractive to women).
> 
> 2. start going out on "boys nights out" with your buddies (if you don't have buddies to hang with, pretend that you do and go out by yourself anyway)
> 
> 3. continue to be a good father and normal husband, but act as if the girls night out no longer bothers you because you got your own game goin' on.
> 
> Try this for a month and then get back to us.
> 
> Do not divorce. Only the most severe abuse warrants divorce. Not girls or guys nights out and no, not even an affair.


First off, what in the world does the child being born out of wedlock have to do with anything?
Second, this is severe abuse. She is literally telling him that his feelings don't matter, she is going to do what she wants, to hell with him. Can you imagine how this damages him? That's abuse. 
What she is doing is not right AT ALL. I do a GNO maybe once or twice a year but nothing and I mean nothing like this occurs. She is acting single, wants to be single, grinds on other guys, dresses like a hooker, gets drunk and drives (!!!!!) and doesn't give a flip what he thinks about it.
Time to divorce and move on. Your son will be fine. It seems like you are the only one who cares about him anyways.


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## No Divorce!

Don, read the 180 rules.

Divorce busting 180 degree list - Marriage Builders® Forums

No nagging, or showing "needy" behaviour here is key. I love the one about kissing her on the cheek and saying "have fun dear!".

The following night YOU go out (again even if you just go out to a movie alone for a few hours), it shows that you don't care, you got your own thang brewin'.

Then the following day you sing in the shower.

Believe me, this will get her thinking.

Hmmm.... Friday I went out with my girls and he seemed happy with that. The next night HE went out without me and today he's singing all day long? What's going on?

Believe me.... she'll come around.

There's no excuse to break up the family unit that your son has grown to love.

(and my point about him being born out of wedlock - too many kids are born out of wedlock and suffer because they are raised by single parents. this couple did the right thing by getting married and providing an intact family unit and stable home for their son.)

Do not throw all this away over girls night out. That's ridiculous.

Adults need to put aside their own feelings and think about the children.


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## Therealbrighteyes

No Divorce! said:


> Don, read the 180 rules.
> 
> Divorce busting 180 degree list - Marriage Builders® Forums
> 
> No nagging, or showing "needy" behaviour here is key. I love the one about kissing her on the cheek and saying "have fun dear!".
> 
> The following night YOU go out (again even if you just go out to a movie alone for a few hours), it shows that you don't care, you got your own thang brewin'.
> 
> Then the following day you sing in the shower.
> 
> Believe me, this will get her thinking.
> 
> Hmmm.... Friday I went out with my girls and he seemed happy with that. The next night HE went out without me and today he's singing all day long? What's going on?
> 
> Believe me.... she'll come around.
> 
> There's no excuse to break up the family unit that your son has grown to love.
> 
> (and my point about him being born out of wedlock - too many kids are born out of wedlock and suffer because they are raised by single parents. this couple did the right thing by getting married and providing an intact family unit and stable home for their son.)
> 
> Do not throw all this away over girls night out. That's ridiculous.
> 
> Adults need to put aside their own feelings and think about the children.


He isn't "throwing" anything away over girls night out. He is trying to decide if he wants to stay with a woman who shows such little respect for him that she could care less if his feelings are repeatedly hurt. She is literally showing him that he doesn't matter to her and she wants to be single. 
Now you suggest acting in the same fashion as she does as a panacea for their marriage? So where does it end? 
Also, if you think that this example is providing a stable home for a 14 year old, you are sadly mistaken. People shouldn't stay married "for the kids". Kids see and hear a whole lot more than we give them credit for. That child knows his mother doesn't respect his father and by staying, he is teaching that child that it is okay to live with disrespect and even encourage it. Is that the message you want a child to grow up with?


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## No Divorce!

People shouldn't stay married "for the kids".

Of course they should. What other reason is there?

Read the 180 Rules I linked to above. This can be resolved.


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## Whip Morgan

ND, 

Adopting methods of a 180 is meant to improve and empower the individual got his/her personal wellbeing, not manipulative tool only. If his spouse sees a fake effort, it'll be worse
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whip Morgan

And I am a product of a marriage that dragged on far too long, " for the kids" it made thigs much worse when divorce finally occurred.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes

No Divorce! said:


> People shouldn't stay married "for the kids".
> 
> Of course they should. What other reason is there?


People should stay married because they love, respect, honor and nurture each other.
Kids are the only reason for staying married?


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## morituri

Whip Morgan said:


> ND,
> 
> Adopting methods of a 180 is meant to improve and empower the individual got his/her personal wellbeing, not manipulative tool only. If his spouse sees a fake effort, it'll be worse
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Indeed.

dondistrict read the following for you can learn a lot from this members experience.



marduk said:


> I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.
> 
> A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.
> 
> Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed?_ Me._ Here’s what I learned:
> 
> *1.	Let her go.* You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.
> 
> *2.	Set boundaries, and then stick to them.* I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.
> 
> *3.	Be ok with losing her.* Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.
> 
> *4.	Do my own thing.* I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…
> 
> *5.	Be a father to our children.* Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.
> 
> *6.	Get some buddies.* Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.
> 
> *7.	Fight different.* Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.
> 
> *8.	Act from a place of strength.* I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.
> 
> *9.	Be decisive.* Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.
> 
> *10.	Know what I want from life.* This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.
> 
> *11.	Do more macho stuff.* Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a _man _ and not one of her girlfriends.
> 
> So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.
> 
> Thanks for everything!


----------



## Entropy3000

No Divorce! said:


> People shouldn't stay married "for the kids".
> 
> Of course they should. What other reason is there?
> 
> Read the 180 Rules I linked to above. This can be resolved.


A man staying married for the kids while the wife openly disrepsects him is very bad for the children. It enables a cycle of disfunction. It teaches the daughters how to treat their husbands and the sons how to be treated by their wives.

Besides, one of the biggest issues in marriages today is putting all of the energy into the children which becomes counter productive to the children.

He needs to take charge. Not be a doormat.

How about people should be faithful to each other for themselves and their children. Children need to see loving parents. Parents comitted to one another.

This really has nothing to do with GNOs. It has to do with lack of respect, love and failfulness. She is indeed abusing him. This is not gender specific.


----------



## MrK

Your wife is not sexually shy. She is sexually shy with you because she doesn't like having sex with you. The gal you describe here is anything BUT sexually shy.

What was it, every other weekend? For 5 years? That's 130 times she's partied with strange men at meat markets, dressed like a s.l.u.t? No problem grinding her ass in a strange man's crotch? Is it even POSSIBLE that she has not had inappropriate relations while out? Making out, MINIMUM. I find it impossible to believe she hasn't already physically cheated on you, on top of all the other problems with her behavior. 

This is bad. REALLY bad. Spy, spy, and spy. Having her followed is surely your best option. PI would be best if you can afford it.


----------



## sh0t

Black in DC? 

The Mack Lessons Radio Show

Find the radio shows he has done that revolve around your situation. He's done plenty of them. 

Oddly enough, I understand your situation EXTREMELY well, because I think I understand what kind of person you are, and your wife. I'm also black and from an inner city. 

I can 'see' what kind of attitude your woman is giving you, because I've seen it before. She's gaming you, but you can play back, assuming you want to get into that territory.


----------



## uphillbattle

No Divorce! said:


> Don, DO NOT DIVORCE!
> 
> Here's why.
> 
> Although another poster gave examples of how his daugthers recovered after their mothers death, the death of a parent is not the same as 2 living parents divorcing!
> 
> Your son is a straight A student? I guarantee you he won't be if you divorce.
> 
> Americans are way too "divorce happy". There was a time when couples stayed together for the sake of the kids. What other "sake" is there?
> 
> This child was born oow (out of wedlock) and you have married and given him a stable home and family. Do not ruin that for him.
> 
> Here's what you do:
> 
> 1. stop acting as if you care about your wife going out (aloofness is attractive to women).
> 
> 2. start going out on "boys nights out" with your buddies (if you don't have buddies to hang with, pretend that you do and go out by yourself anyway)
> 
> 3. continue to be a good father and normal husband, but act as if the girls night out no longer bothers you because you got your own game goin' on.
> 
> Try this for a month and then get back to us.
> 
> Do not divorce. Only the most severe abuse warrants divorce. Not girls or guys nights out and no, not even an affair.


This is soooooooooooo true. You should just take whatever diseases she brings home to you. Thats the best way to take care of your son, die of AIDS. You should even raise the child she gets impregnated with. 
I have 2 straight A students that myself and my ex raise with 50/50 custody. While I agree that it is not optimal, it is workable if you put an effort into it. Putting an effort into an open marriage is just rediclous unless that is what you both want.


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## MrK

Here's the part that confuses me about this topic. It is almost universally accepted that a majority of people go to these places to participate in behavior unbecomming of a committed partner. Yet a very large number of women in committed relationships can and do go to these establishments and act like everyone else there. And male significant others have to be cuckolded into believing they are a p.u.s.s.y if they have a problem with it.

What I'm asking is how can a society raise a generation of males, in ANY culture, who even need to ASK if the type of behavior described here is acceptable? How screwed up is it that a woman can look her committed SO in the eye and have the statement "I'm heading out to drink, party with and probably grind my crotch on the legs of strange men" sound like something he shouldn't stop immediately.

And ANY poster that says "but I really DO go just to dance" and doesn't qualify it with "but yeah, I can see your concern" is is being disingenuous.


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## Entropy3000

MrK said:


> Here's the part that confuses me about this topic. It is almost universally accepted that a majority of people go to these places to participate in behavior unbecomming of a committed partner. Yet a very large number of women in committed relationships can and do go to these establishments and act like everyone else there. And male significant others have to be cuckolded into believing they are a p.u.s.s.y if they have a problem with it.
> 
> What I'm asking is how can a society raise a generation of males, in ANY culture, who even need to ASK if the type of behavior described here is acceptable? How screwed up is it that a woman can look her committed SO in the eye and have the statement "I'm heading out to drink, party with and probably grind my crotch on the legs of strange men" sound like something he shouldn't stop immediately.
> 
> And ANY poster that says "but I really DO go just to dance" and doesn't qualify it with "but yeah, I can see your concern" is is being disingenuous.


I confess it is hard for me to take these type of posts too seriously. It boggles my mind that a man would ask if this is ok let alone put up with it for a long period of time. Then say his wife is shy. LOL. UFB.

That said, as unbelieveable as this is I do see a trend where many women seem to go into marriage thinking it is ok for them to have a husband who stays home why they continue to go play with the boys. Shame on them BUT the bigger shame is on the husband who allows himself to be cuckolded.

Hypergamy.

http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2011/...to-alleviate-suffering-from-female-hypergamy/


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## MrK

Entropy3000 said:


> Hypergamy.
> 
> Hmmmm... I've seen this word a couple of times today. Something new? It kind of relates to my theory that once a woman's gone, she's gone. It takes it a little further to say that even if she isn't gone now, she will be eventually. And there's pretty much nothing you can do about it.
> 
> I'm f****d!


----------



## ren

One of the best things you can do is embrace the GNO: Offer to drive them there or pick them up! If she balks, tell her you just want her to have a good time and not have to worry about her or friends getting a DUI. If she still doesn't want you to you've got a major reason to be concerned. If you give her a ride tell her you want to come in and say hi and grab a drink with everyone real quick. The point is to insert yourself into GNO in a limited and positive way, be friendly to everyone and make a good impression, be the confident and charming kind of guy a woman is proud to show off and brag about. When her friends recognize you as the better of any man they run into during GNO they are less likely to encourage inappropriate behavior and more likely to judge inappropriate behavior negatively. It takes away the excuse that you somehow provide justification for wrong actions by her.


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## MrK

ren said:


> One of the best things you can do is embrace the GNO: Offer to drive them there or pick them up! If she balks, tell her you just want her to have a good time and not have to worry about her or friends getting a DUI. If she still doesn't want you to you've got a major reason to be concerned. If you give her a ride tell her you want to come in and say hi and grab a drink with everyone real quick. The point is to insert yourself into GNO in a limited and positive way, be friendly to everyone and make a good impression, be the confident and charming kind of guy a woman is proud to show off and brag about. When her friends recognize you as the better of any man they run into during GNO they are less likely to encourage inappropriate behavior and more likely to judge inappropriate behavior negatively. It takes away the excuse that you somehow provide justification for wrong actions by her.


Either that or tell her she's free to go but her suitcase will be outside next to the door and all of the locks will be changed by the time she gets home.


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## tmbirdy

In my marriage, going out to nightclubs and singles bars is absolutely out of the question for both of us without the other coming along. In fact, we generally don't even go to places like that anyways. No need to. You could try therapy is she is willing. Good luck to you.


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## No Divorce!

Morituri, you quoted Marduk and while I think he had it right on many points, such as having his own hobbies and stuff that he can do without his wife, just as his wife has, I don't understand his gripe with being at home 2-3 nights a week with his kids while his wife worked out and trained for her triatholons or did other stuff. He said she was a stay at home mom so I'm assuming he "leaves his wife alone with kids" 5 days a week while he goes to work. Believe me, when your'e with kids all day you NEED a few nights away from them per week just to keep your sanity sometimes. What is so difficult about that to understand? Maybe if the tables were turned and HE were the one staying home all day with the kids, he'd "get it". 

Its certainly not something to get upset over, but rather, "sure honey, go do your thing. I realise how hard it can be to be a stay at home mom 24/7 so go get your "me" time".

Honestly, what some husbands consider a marriage crisis these days!



:scratchhead:


----------



## Entropy3000

MrK said:


> Entropy3000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hypergamy.
> 
> Hmmmm... I've seen this word a couple of times today. Something new? It kind of relates to my theory that once a woman's gone, she's gone. It takes it a little further to say that even if she isn't gone now, she will be eventually. And there's pretty much nothing you can do about it.
> 
> I'm f****d!
> 
> 
> 
> About as new as the cave.
Click to expand...


----------



## Entropy3000

No Divorce! said:


> Morituri, you quoted Marduk and while I think he had it right on many points, such as having his own hobbies and stuff that he can do without his wife, just as his wife has, I don't understand his gripe with being at home 2-3 nights a week with his kids while his wife worked out and trained for her triatholons or did other stuff. He said she was a stay at home mom so I'm assuming he "leaves his wife alone with kids" 5 days a week while he goes to work. Believe me, when your'e with kids all day you NEED a few nights away from them per week just to keep your sanity sometimes. What is so difficult about that to understand? Maybe if the tables were turned and HE were the one staying home all day with the kids, he'd "get it".
> 
> Its certainly not something to get upset over, but rather, "sure honey, go do your thing. I realise how hard it can be to be a stay at home mom 24/7 so go get your "me" time".
> 
> Honestly, what some husbands consider a marriage crisis these days!
> 
> 
> 
> :scratchhead:


Some men actually are into being cuckolded. I don't get that either. :scratchhead: 
I think men who do not have this affliction are better off.

But you forgot about the Vegas trips and the money spent on clothes and so on.

Not all men are ok with their wives riding other men. They would be creepy weird if they were.

SAHMs are fast becoming outdated. At least after the children are in school. SAHMs seem more and more vulnerable to affairs and acting out at some point. The thing is that they do not have to be doing this. It is about choices.


----------



## No Divorce!

"SAHMs seem more and more vulnerable to affairs and acting out at some point. The thing is that they do not have to be doing this. It is about choices."

And Marduk was lucky, his wife chose instead to compete in triatholons! He should have been on his knees thanking his lucky stars instead of complaining.


----------



## Entropy3000

No Divorce! said:


> "SAHMs seem more and more vulnerable to affairs and acting out at some point. The thing is that they do not have to be doing this. It is about choices."
> 
> And Marduk was lucky, his wife chose instead to compete in triatholons! He should have been on his knees thanking his lucky stars instead of complaining.


The inference is that there qas more than this. Anyway he felt she left the marriage. Go ahead and beat on him I suppose. Have a good time.

If the roles were reveresed he would be beat up for neglecting his wife.


----------



## Whip Morgan

No Divorce! said:


> Morituri, you quoted Marduk and while I think he had it right on many points, such as having his own hobbies and stuff that he can do without his wife, just as his wife has, I don't understand his gripe with being at home 2-3 nights a week with his kids while his wife worked out and trained for her triatholons or did other stuff. He said she was a stay at home mom so I'm assuming he "leaves his wife alone with kids" 5 days a week while he goes to work. Believe me, when your'e with kids all day you NEED a few nights away from them per week just to keep your sanity sometimes. What is so difficult about that to understand? Maybe if the tables were turned and HE were the one staying home all day with the kids, he'd "get it".
> 
> Its certainly not something to get upset over, but rather, "sure honey, go do your thing. I realise how hard it can be to be a stay at home mom 24/7 so go get your "me" time".
> 
> Honestly, what some husbands consider a marriage crisis these days!
> 
> 
> 
> :scratchhead:


Whoa. You need to reread something in Marduk's post:

_A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid._

Triathalons? Not the problem. The girls night outs, the Vegas trip, that was the issue. Combine that nonsense with marital problems at home....You can see why Marduk prepared to let her go indeed.

GNOs that many times WHILE allowing your marriage to degrade, WHILE you're disrespecting your husband? Yeah, no thanks. It truly seems that Mrs. Marduk realized what she was doing was not beneficial to the marriage and what she was walking away from, and stopped herself. Kudos to her, 99 times out of 100 on TAM thats where toxic friends and affairs start.


----------



## No Divorce!

"Triathalons? Not the problem. The girls night outs, the Vegas trip, that was the issue. Combine that nonsense with marital problems at home....You can see why Marduk prepared to let her go indeed.

GNOs that many times WHILE allowing your marriage to degrade, WHILE you're disrespecting your husband?"

Marduk did not say his wife was "disrespecting" him. A trip to Vegas, girls (or boys) night out, triatholones - are these really reasons to end a marriage? 

No wonder the American divorce rate is at 50% or thereabouts.


----------



## Whip Morgan

No Divorce! said:


> Marduk did not say his wife was "disrespecting" him. A trip to Vegas, girls (or boys) night out, triatholones - are these really reasons to end a marriage?
> 
> No wonder the American divorce rate is at 50% or thereabouts.


My point is not that a Girls Night is the only reason a marriage ends - its what is behind it.

Marduk's marriage was a mess, as he states. If you go through his post again, you can see where Mrs. Marduk reducing her time drinking with the girls and spending time with her husband and family has helped rebuild the marriage. So, do I think it was a problem? Absolutely.

I don't consider all GNO is breeding grounds for married women to get wild and cheat. However, Marduk made it pretty clear that his wife's actions were causing problems. And thats what matters - his wife's behavior was causing problems for him - the husband. Doesn't matter what you and I think in the end. 

If a marriage is declining and the two aren't working to spend time together , but rather going out for a Girl/Guys night, that is counter-productive to rebuilding. and yeah, its pretty disrespectful to the spouse. "I'd rather go drinking with my friends (and anything else?) than spend time here, with you." And if you read enough stories in the Infidelity Board, those nights out, bad things usually happen.


----------



## Entropy3000

No Divorce! said:


> "Triathalons? Not the problem. The girls night outs, the Vegas trip, that was the issue. Combine that nonsense with marital problems at home....You can see why Marduk prepared to let her go indeed.
> 
> GNOs that many times WHILE allowing your marriage to degrade, WHILE you're disrespecting your husband?"
> 
> Marduk did not say his wife was "disrespecting" him. A trip to Vegas, girls (or boys) night out, triatholones - are these really reasons to end a marriage?
> 
> No wonder the American divorce rate is at 50% or thereabouts.


Yes, being cuckolded is far worse than divorce. Maybe some folks have more self respect than others. hard to say what is in the numbers.


----------



## morituri

No Divorce! said:


> "Triathalons? Not the problem. The girls night outs, the Vegas trip, that was the issue. Combine that nonsense with marital problems at home....You can see why Marduk prepared to let her go indeed.
> 
> GNOs that many times WHILE allowing your marriage to degrade, WHILE you're disrespecting your husband?"
> 
> Marduk did not say his wife was "disrespecting" him. A trip to Vegas, girls (or boys) night out, triatholones - are these really reasons to end a marriage?
> 
> No wonder the American divorce rate is at 50% or thereabouts.


I beg to differ with you regarding marduk's wife not disrespecting him with her behavior. If you don't believe me, then read *carefully* the first post from over a year ago



marduk said:


> Hi everyone, I'm very new to these forums. I'm here after yet another sleepless night and fight with the wife and I'm looking for some *honest* feedback. If I'm being a jerk and unreasonable I want to know it.
> 
> Some background. My wife and I were both divorced after very young unhealthy marriages. Both cheated on, both tried to make it work and couldn't.
> 
> We've been in a happy marriage for ~8 years and have been together for about 13 years. We have three young kids and my wife is a great stay at home mom.
> 
> We have a pretty idyllic life. Great home, great kids, great job, etc.
> 
> But about 6-8 months ago things seemed to change for my wife. First she started scrapbooking 4-5 times a month, until late at night. OK, I'm glad she has some creative outlets. Then her girlfriends started a "ladies group" one night a month where they all go out together. OK, I'm glad she gets a night out. Gets tough the weeks where she's gone 2-3 times until late, but I live with it.
> 
> Then she starts marathon training... where she's out running most evenings. It's just for an hour or two, so OK. Now on top of that she starts one of those "boot camp" things a few nights a week. She's very into fitness... so how can I argue with that? I join her at the boot camp occasionally.
> 
> Then her girls group decides to do a 5 day weekend in Vegas. I'm very not OK with this and tell her... but she goes anyway. And now she's going out occasionally with another set of girlfriends -- and just last night comes home from "dinner" at 1 AM when I get up at 6 for work.
> 
> And she's suddenly started spending thousands of dollars on clothes. Combined with the Vegas trips and nights out we're deep in debt. She keeps saying for me to go on a guy's trip but how can I put my family even deeper in debt? And why would I want to go away without her?
> 
> I have been practicing martial arts for 20ish years... and now I'm down to being able to do it for _maybe_ one early evening a week (leave after dinner and home by 9) because she's always out.
> 
> I'm absolutely done with all this being out and don't understand it. I have been telling her for months it's too much but she just says I'm being controlling and holding her back from the things she wants to do and she isn't doing anything bad.
> 
> I finally lost it on her last night and told her I'm done with this. She can either be reasonable (meaning not gone out until late 3-5 nights a week) or our relationship is going to profoundly change. Meaning either I'm out of here or will start doing the same.
> 
> Seeing as we've both been cheated on I'm not cool with the Vegas trips or the late nights. And I'm not cool with working all day to support our life and being a single parent at night.
> 
> Please -- am I being unreasonable? I'm not asking her to stop, just tone it down to 1-2 nights a week max, no more weekends away, and no late nights on week nights. Is that too much?


----------



## ISB303

I'm having a problem with the "sexually shy" and "only partner" parts. My wife acted sexually shy and claimed to only have a handful of partners including her ex-husband when we first got together. 14 years and one cheating wife later, her true sexual animal was unleashed and the number of partners(she threw it in my face) bumped up to 16 and that was just the ones she could remember.

I am NOT saying your wife is like this. Please don't fly off the handle and start asking for the "truth" a billion times like I did. You may not like the results and at the very least you'll royally P her off.

What I am saying though, is communicate peacefully your displeasure with her behavior and if she tries to start something, just calm down and tell her your sorry and she can talk to you about it when she feels like it. And DON'T come back 10 minutes later and ask her if she feels like. Wait atleast several hours and the ask her if she is okay to talk about it. Sugar, sugar, sugar. It's not how you might feel, you might feel like grabbing a voodoo doll and roasting it over the stove, but sugar = understanding = you won't freak out on her.

My wife and I were rage personafied for a bit after the incident but by calming down and seeking professional help we are more intune today then we were for the last 14 years.

I thought it was a bunch of BS but communicating(even the hurtful and weird stuff) is key.

Oh PS. If she gained weight and now is trying to lose it or even if she is trying to get in better shape, be suspicious. My wife was smoking hot when we met then got comfortable but still hot. All three times she was enamoured with another man, she started losing weight and getting back into shape. All three times the infatuation was lost, she started getting comfortable again. Just saying.


----------



## Entropy3000

ISB303 said:


> I'm having a problem with the "sexually shy" and "only partner" parts. My wife acted sexually shy and claimed to only have a handful of partners including her ex-husband when we first got together. 14 years and one cheating wife later, her true sexual animal was unleashed and the number of partners(she threw it in my face) bumped up to 16 and that was just the ones she could remember.
> 
> I am NOT saying your wife is like this. Please don't fly off the handle and start asking for the "truth" a billion times like I did. You may not like the results and at the very least you'll royally P her off.
> 
> *What I am saying though, is communicate peacefully your displeasure with her behavior and if she tries to start something, just calm down and tell her your sorry and she can talk to you about it when she feels like it. *And DON'T come back 10 minutes later and ask her if she feels like. Wait atleast several hours and the ask her if she is okay to talk about it. Sugar, sugar, sugar. It's not how you might feel, you might feel like grabbing a voodoo doll and roasting it over the stove, but sugar = understanding = you won't freak out on her.
> 
> My wife and I were rage personafied for a bit after the incident but by calming down and seeking professional help we are more intune today then we were for the last 14 years.
> 
> I thought it was a bunch of BS but communicating(even the hurtful and weird stuff) is key.
> 
> Oh PS. If she gained weight and now is trying to lose it or even if she is trying to get in better shape, be suspicious. My wife was smoking hot when we met then got comfortable but still hot. All three times she was enamoured with another man, she started losing weight and getting back into shape. All three times the infatuation was lost, she started getting comfortable again. Just saying.


So he should go into a discussion with her, already planning to apologize to her if she behaves immaturely and then offer to not ask her again until she is ready? Sounds just a tad like conflict avoidance and submission to me. He does not have to escalate. He should not apologize to her for her bad behavior. He should not reward such behavior by saying he will not ask again. He has already been way too submissive to this point without continuing such behavior.

The thing is he does not have to investigate further. He knows she has been unfaithful already. However he has enabled it by putting up with it. He has to soul search for the reasons there.

She already knows his displeasuer but disrespects him anyway. Five years worth. And seemingly only after they were married. Maybe she just brought her behavior above ground.

Sexually shy and only partner .... ummmm no.


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## No Divorce!

Well, this left me speechless.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/33337-religious-girls-night-out.html#post455363


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## Entropy3000

Whip Morgan said:


> My point is not that a Girls Night is the only reason a marriage ends - its what is behind it.
> 
> Marduk's marriage was a mess, as he states. If you go through his post again, you can see where Mrs. Marduk reducing her time drinking with the girls and spending time with her husband and family has helped rebuild the marriage. So, do I think it was a problem? Absolutely.
> 
> I don't consider all GNO is breeding grounds for married women to get wild and cheat. However, Marduk made it pretty clear that his wife's actions were causing problems. And thats what matters - his wife's behavior was causing problems for him - the husband. Doesn't matter what you and I think in the end.
> 
> *If a marriage is declining and the two aren't working to spend time together , but rather going out for a Girl/Guys night, that is counter-productive to rebuilding. and yeah, its pretty disrespectful to the spouse. "I'd rather go drinking with my friends (and anything else?) than spend time here, with you." And if you read enough stories in the Infidelity Board, those nights out, bad things usually happen.*


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## turnera

All of these people need to read His Needs Her Needs and get a handle on what it takes to make a marriage SURVIVE.


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## Entropy3000

turnera said:


> All of these people need to read His Needs Her Needs and get a handle on what it takes to make a marriage SURVIVE.


It just seems to continually have relevance to so many of these issues. Understanding and meeting needs, Communication, boundaries ....


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## TRy

dondistrict said:


> And yes , I specifically asked her at one point that she NOT dance with strangers at clubs , and a couple nights later a picture of her popped up on Facebook of her grinding her ass on a mans penis in a club . I asked her this as she was on her way out to said club , and in the picture was the outfit she was wearing that night that . What am I doing? smh


You ask "What am I doing?" when you know full well what you are doing. You are allowing your wife to act like she is single with other men while you hold down the fort at home. The FB photo of your wife "grinding her ass on a mans penis in a club" would be a deal break for most men but not you. Not only is she disrespecting you and your marriage but she is bragging about it to everyone on FB.

You do not ask your wife to stop fooling around with other men, you tell her to stop. If my wife did this to me, not only would I tell her stop, but I would only stay married to her if she showed true remorse. You will not do this. You will make excuse after excuse for why you cannot. You know it, I know it, and she knows it. She can be this way because she knows that you will let her.

The funny thing is that your marriage has a much better chance of surviving long term if you stand up for what is right then it does on its current path. Her belief in your willingness to divorce if pushed, is your best chance at not being divorced.

A cowards dies a thousand small deaths, a brave man dies but once.


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## Onedery

Late to this party, but I wish my ex and been as open about her disregard for our sham marriage, early on as your is. It would have saved me a lot of grief and money, too because she would have been on her own twenty years earlier once the paternity results were in.


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