# Wife doesn't want me or our kids to see my parents



## dvsninja2

Been married for 9 years and 4 years ago after our kids were born it all began to change. I used to have a good relationship with my parents but there were some issues early on. One great example and probably the worse thing that happened was our first child's baptism. He was pretty sick when we brought him home and my wife and I both agreed that we would do the baptism and have a party. One condition would be that no one would hold our son during the party, my wife just wanted to protect him and not further any complications and I respected that. My mom ended up coming up to me and asking if my brother could hold his nephew. This cause major issues because I ended up going to my wife asking her if it would be OK and it wasn't. I should have never asked my wife and confronted my mom but I did not. This was the worse issue we have had, but there have been many disrespectful situations. I do not believe my mother is bad or evil like my wife does, she just does things differently and I want to try to fix them whereas my wife wants to just remove the problem and have no relationship. It has been a year since any of us have seen my family and it is tearing me up, I want to find a solution, resolve, and compromise to have a relationship. I have asked if I can see my parents and if I can take our kids and gauge her reaction. Basically told if I do so she might not be home when I get back. For my wife she sees this as a picking my parents over her, that I am not listening to her and disregarding her concerns. She feels my mother hates her and is purposely trying to destroy our marriage. I do understand my wife's side that it might feel like I am throwing her feelings away by seeing my parents. If she is angry and hurt then so should I and that I should also not want to see my parents. As my wife would say, "why would you want to see people who are so toxic". The problem is I feel my wife is the toxic person sometimes and this leads to resentment. 

On top of all of this I feel she has been an emotional manipulator. When we talk about anything she will tell me the things I am doing wrong and when I try to explain that I do it because she said, did, or didn't do something which made me assume or feel a certain way; she states that I am pushing the blame on her and making her feel bad about herself then shuts down. My goal is not to blame but to point out the reason for my actions and hopefully find resolve. I know I am not perfect and I have often considered if I am the emotional manipulator or toxic person. In the end I feel I am doing a good job, showing appreciation for her work, being a SHM, constant chores and watching the kids when I can. Meanwhile she has been sitting on the couch on her phone nonstop for the lat 4 years which I am constantly doing something with the house and kids. She claims I ignore her and am not including her but I always ask her to do something with us, ask her about her day, preoccupy the kids to give her a break. She makes me feel so guilty about the things I have to say, for not saying anything at all, and the things I do. I often get into discussions with her having certain feelings but after she counters I start to get completely different feelings like guilt on myself.

We started marriage counseling a year ago and it has now become individual counseling for her per our therapists recommendations. I think this says a lot about the situation. 

I shared a lot and I am trying to figure out what to do, what is the issue, how do I solve it, can I solve it? If your spouse didn't want you or your kids to see your family and you did, what would you do?


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## lifeistooshort

So what I get out of this is that you don't back your wife up where your family is concerned.

Is that correct?

Once that has been established the advice will be better.


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## Andy1001

Go and see a lawyer and get advice on preventing your wife from removing your children from either the home or the state. 
Then take your children and visit your parents. 
You have appeased your wife and actually enabled her ****ty behavior,it’s time to put your big boy pants on and stand up for yourself and your children. They don’t deserve to miss out on their extended family anymore than you do.
If she leaves she will soon realize how good she has it. 
Look online for the book “no more mr nice guy”.You would do well to read it.


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## SunCMars

She hates the life she is living, yet, she will do nothing to improve the situation.
Likely, she can't, it is not in her to change.

In turn, you are forced to hate your life, also.

I am sure that there is blame on both sides. 

There is also a situation of you two being incompatible. This is common.

You have been to counselors and you have tried to reason with her, to no avail.

Life is short.
I would pull the plug on this one.


Free her.
Free yourself. 





[THM]- THRD


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## dvsninja2

I agree with my wife that my mom has done disrespectful things, not evil. I do not agree with my wife on the consequences put into place with no contact with my parents. I feel it is something that should be worked on, family is forever and they should have the opportunity to hear our concerns, our boundaries, and to maybe make attempts to fix it. If it continued I honestly don't know what I would want. I still do not feel these are things that require banishment.


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## Diana7

dvsninja2 said:


> I agree with my wife that my mom has done disrespectful things, not evil. I do not agree with my wife on the consequences put into place with no contact with my parents. I feel it is something that should be worked on, family is forever and they should have the opportunity to hear our concerns, our boundaries, and to maybe make attempts to fix it. If it continued I honestly don't know what I would want. I still do not feel these are things that require banishment.


Apart from the one time when your mum merely asked if her son could hold the baby(hardly the crime of the century,) what else have they done? If its just other minor stuff like that then she is being very selfish by not letting your family see the children. 
So she threatens not to be there if you take them to see your parents? That is SO manipulative. Of course its worked because you haven't been. You may need to call her bluff. 
Unless they are dangerous or truly toxic, then its cruel not to let them see their own grandchildren, and for the children to miss out on the whole of one side of the family. I suspect that her rule of not letting anyone hold the baby was part of her control.


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## NobodySpecial

dvsninja2 said:


> Been married for 9 years and 4 years ago after our kids were born it all began to change. I used to have a good relationship with my parents but there were some issues early on. One great example and probably the worse thing that happened was our first child's baptism. He was pretty sick when we brought him home and my wife and I both agreed that we would do the baptism and have a party. One condition would be that no one would hold our son during the party, my wife just wanted to protect him and not further any complications and I respected that. My mom ended up coming up to me and asking if my brother could hold his nephew. This cause major issues because I ended up going to my wife asking her if it would be OK and it wasn't. I should have never asked my wife and confronted my mom but I did not. This was the worse issue we have had, but there have been many disrespectful situations. I do not believe my mother is bad or evil like my wife does, she just does things differently and I want to try to fix them whereas my wife wants to just remove the problem and have no relationship.


Alas, the problem is that the only good way to fix an issue like this is set FIRM boundaries with your family of origin. You missed that boat with incident #1. A strong apology with a vigorous change of habit may have worked well. But it sounds like that might not have been what happened.

This has come up a few times over the years. Many, many years ago, I was trying to nail down plans for an upcoming holiday. I asked my MIL many times what her plans were, and she would not tell me. They were maybe going to her family out of state. She was maybe staying home with us. We repeated this many times over the course of the ensuing weeks. My mom wanted to know if we were coming to them. She did not care if we did or didn't, just wanted a dinner count. I even told MIL that I had to give me mom the info and that if she did not decide to stay home that we were going to my family. No decision. So I told my Mom we were coming to them.

Next day, FIL started talking about the plans for the holiday, assuming we were staying there. (Neither he nor my husband really have working knowledge of holiday planning. That is us women's domain.) I said we were going to my family. FIL waiting until I stepped away, and told DH he had to tell me who wears the pants in the family and that we were STAYING. FIL tried to get physical with DH! This is kinda funny since DH is a black belt. But DH simply said, you don't run my marriage. If that is the route you choose to take, you won't be seeing much of us. Go DH! 

FIL tried to press his supposed authority a few more times. Each time DH stood firm.

...



> It has been a year since any of us have seen my family and it is tearing me up, I want to find a solution, resolve, and compromise to have a relationship.


Compromise what exactly? Your wife's authority to make health decisions for your child? The compromise I would suggest is 
- attempt to get your wife to try again under the promise of your supporting her 200%
- set new expectations with your family of origin by your behavior going forward, whatever that means to you and your wife.



> I have asked if I can see my parents and if I can take our kids and gauge her reaction. Basically told if I do so she might not be home when I get back. For my wife she sees this as a picking my parents over her, that I am not listening to her and disregarding her concerns.


Alas, I am with her. 



> She feels my mother hates her and is purposely trying to destroy our marriage. I do understand my wife's side that it might feel like I am throwing her feelings away by seeing my parents. If she is angry and hurt then so should I and that I should also not want to see my parents. As my wife would say, "why would you want to see people who are so toxic". The problem is I feel my wife is the toxic person sometimes and this leads to resentment.


It is hard to know where the notion of toxicity comes from. Your one example is pretty mild. But the only way to expose your wife to a new normal is to have her back.


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## Deejo

So, let me boil this down to the essence.

Your wife is a bit of a control freak.
She is manipulative or uses guilt to achieve the outcomes she wants.
You usually grant her the outcome she wants.
You try to use reason and fairness, and get steamrolled.

How am I doing?

If all above is accurate, a mutually positive outcome whereby you preserve and build upon your marriage is a longshot.


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## dvsninja2

Hard to swallow some of this for me but I know you are correct.



NobodySpecial said:


> Alas, the problem is that the only good way to fix an issue like this is set FIRM boundaries with your family of origin. You missed that boat with incident #1. A strong apology with a vigorous change of habit may have worked well. But it sounds like that might not have been what happened.
> 
> This has come up a few times over the years. Many, many years ago, I was trying to nail down plans for an upcoming holiday. I asked my MIL many times what her plans were, and she would not tell me. They were maybe going to her family out of state. She was maybe staying home with us. We repeated this many times over the course of the ensuing weeks. My mom wanted to know if we were coming to them. She did not care if we did or didn't, just wanted a dinner count. I even told MIL that I had to give me mom the info and that if she did not decide to stay home that we were going to my family. No decision. So I told my Mom we were coming to them.
> 
> Next day, FIL started talking about the plans for the holiday, assuming we were staying there. (Neither he nor my husband really have working knowledge of holiday planning. That is us women's domain.) I said we were going to my family. FIL waiting until I stepped away, and told DH he had to tell me who wears the pants in the family and that we were STAYING. FIL tried to get physical with DH! This is kinda funny since DH is a black belt. But DH simply said, you don't run my marriage. If that is the route you choose to take, you won't be seeing much of us. Go DH!
> 
> FIL tried to press his supposed authority a few more times. Each time DH stood firm.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Compromise what exactly? Your wife's authority to make health decisions for your child? The compromise I would suggest is
> - attempt to get your wife to try again under the promise of your supporting her 200%
> - set new expectations with your family of origin by your behavior going forward, whatever that means to you and your wife.
> 
> 
> Alas, I am with her.
> 
> 
> It is hard to know where the notion of toxicity comes from. Your one example is pretty mild. But the only way to expose your wife to a new normal is to have her back.


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## dvsninja2

For the sake of my children and the commitment I made a long-shot is hopeful for me. Question is how does it play out. Like DR Strange and the 14 million outcomes with only 1 win, I still want to pursue that 1 possibility that makes everything work out.



Deejo said:


> So, let me boil this down to the essence.
> 
> Your wife is a bit of a control freak.
> She is manipulative or uses guilt to achieve the outcomes she wants.
> You usually grant her the outcome she wants.
> You try to use reason and fairness, and get steamrolled.
> 
> How am I doing?
> 
> If all above is accurate, a mutually positive outcome whereby you preserve and build upon your marriage is a longshot.


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## Marc878

For this marriage to survive you'll have to eliminate your side of the family (cut all ties) and become a total doormat to your wife. Relinquish all parental rights of your children to your wife.

Once that's accomplished you should be fine.


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## dvsninja2

That sounds incredibly hard, scary, and almost unreasonable? Can you explain more of why this has to happen?



Marc878 said:


> For this marriage to survive you'll have to eliminate your side of the family (cut all ties) and become a total doormat to your wife. Relinquish all parental rights of your children to your wife.
> 
> Once that's accomplished you should be fine.


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## personofinterest

dvsninja2 said:


> Been married for 9 years and 4 years ago after our kids were born it all began to change. I used to have a good relationship with my parents but there were some issues early on. One great example and probably the worse thing that happened was our first child's baptism. He was pretty sick when we brought him home and my wife and I both agreed that we would do the baptism and have a party. One condition would be that no one would hold our son during the party, my wife just wanted to protect him and not further any complications and I respected that. My mom ended up coming up to me and asking if my brother could hold his nephew. This cause major issues because I ended up going to my wife asking her if it would be OK and it wasn't. I should have never asked my wife and confronted my mom but I did not. This was the worse issue we have had, but there have been many disrespectful situations. I do not believe my mother is bad or evil like my wife does, she just does things differently and I want to try to fix them whereas my wife wants to just remove the problem and have no relationship. It has been a year since any of us have seen my family and it is tearing me up, I want to find a solution, resolve, and compromise to have a relationship. I have asked if I can see my parents and if I can take our kids and gauge her reaction. Basically told if I do so she might not be home when I get back. For my wife she sees this as a picking my parents over her, that I am not listening to her and disregarding her concerns. She feels my mother hates her and is purposely trying to destroy our marriage. I do understand my wife's side that it might feel like I am throwing her feelings away by seeing my parents. If she is angry and hurt then so should I and that I should also not want to see my parents. As my wife would say, "why would you want to see people who are so toxic". The problem is I feel my wife is the toxic person sometimes and this leads to resentment.
> 
> On top of all of this I feel she has been an emotional manipulator. When we talk about anything she will tell me the things I am doing wrong and when I try to explain that I do it because she said, did, or didn't do something which made me assume or feel a certain way; she states that I am pushing the blame on her and making her feel bad about herself then shuts down. My goal is not to blame but to point out the reason for my actions and hopefully find resolve. I know I am not perfect and I have often considered if I am the emotional manipulator or toxic person. In the end I feel I am doing a good job, showing appreciation for her work, being a SHM, constant chores and watching the kids when I can. Meanwhile she has been sitting on the couch on her phone nonstop for the lat 4 years which I am constantly doing something with the house and kids. She claims I ignore her and am not including her but I always ask her to do something with us, ask her about her day, preoccupy the kids to give her a break. She makes me feel so guilty about the things I have to say, for not saying anything at all, and the things I do. I often get into discussions with her having certain feelings but after she counters I start to get completely different feelings like guilt on myself.
> 
> We started marriage counseling a year ago and it has now become individual counseling for her per our therapists recommendations. I think this says a lot about the situation.
> 
> I shared a lot and I am trying to figure out what to do, what is the issue, how do I solve it, can I solve it? If your spouse didn't want you or your kids to see your family and you did, what would you do?


Basically, your wife cannot trust you to have her back. I don't blame her.

Man up and protect your wife, tell your family to back off, and things may change.


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## personofinterest

Marc878 said:


> For this marriage to survive you'll have to eliminate your side of the family (cut all ties) and become a total doormat to your wife. Relinquish all parental rights of your children to your wife.
> 
> Once that's accomplished you should be fine.


He's either being a smart aleck and attacking your wife or he has read too much MB.

Either way, disowning your family is NOT necessary. Being a HUSBAND and not a mama's boy IS.


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## personofinterest

dvsninja2 said:


> I agree with my wife that my mom has done disrespectful things, not evil. I do not agree with my wife on the consequences put into place with no contact with my parents. I feel it is something that should be worked on,* family is forever* and they should have the opportunity to hear our concerns, our boundaries, and to maybe make attempts to fix it. If it continued I honestly don't know what I would want. I still do not feel these are things that require banishment.


So your wife is not your family?


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## NobodySpecial

dvsninja2 said:


> Hard to swallow some of this for me but I know you are correct.


I'm sorry.


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## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> Basically, your wife cannot trust you to have her back. I don't blame her.
> 
> Man up and protect your wife, tell your family to back off, and things may change.


I think actively pursuing said change, and succeeding, is highly likely once trust is re-established.


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## NobodySpecial

dvsninja2 said:


> I agree with my wife that my mom has done disrespectful things, not evil. I do not agree with my wife on the consequences put into place with no contact with my parents. I feel it is something that should be worked on, family is forever and they should have the opportunity to hear our concerns, our boundaries, and to maybe make attempts to fix it. If it continued I honestly don't know what I would want. I still do not feel these are things that require banishment.


If it were me, I would take it as a multi-step process. The issue is less what your Mom has or has not done as it is you did not stand up for your family. Re-establish trust. Don't TALK about your boundaries and expect your family of origin to hear you. Establish the boundaries with action. Example from my life I think failed to post. When FIL was too casual with the car seat installation (putting that mildly), DH spoke to him twice. First time, FIL ya yup. Second time told DH how he did not agree... DH simply said, it is not up for debate. If you are unwilling to learn how to use the car seat properly and do so every single time our child is in the car with you, he will no longer be visiting unsupervised by us. 

Once you can re-establish trust of this sort, your wife will be more likely to listen to compromise with you on what boundaries need to be set. But no, your familily boundaries should not be open to negotiation with your extended family.


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## Diana7

Can you please tell us what other things your mother and family are supposed to have done that are so bad? The only example you gave wasn't bad at all. Unless the baptism was within a very short time of coming home, then why couldn't close family have a cuddle of the baby.Its what families do.

Your wife is highly manipulative,threatening to leave if you take the children to see their own family for the first time in a year is appalling behaviour. She doesn't have to go does she.


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## NobodySpecial

Diana7 said:


> Can you please tell us what other things your mother and family are supposed to have done that are so bad? The only example you gave wasn't bad at all. Unless the baptism was within a very short time of coming home, then why couldn't close family have a cuddle of the baby.Its what families do.


"He was pretty sick"

"my wife and I both agreed that we would do the baptism and have a party. One condition would be that no one would hold our son during the party"


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## Yeswecan

Support your W even if is at odds with your family.


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## Adelais

I only read your opening post and this jumped out: you already knew your son was sick at the baptism and that your wife wanted to protect him by not letting anyone hold him in order to reduce the possibility of germs.

You put your wife in an uncomfortable situation, forcing her to be the bad guy when she had to tell your mother no.

You should have been your son's and wife's protector and told your mother "Sorry, he's been sick lately and we want to limit the amount of exposure to germs today. We'll let people hold him next time."

There was no reason for you to ask your wife on behalf of your mother.

If you have done more things like this, I understand why your wife feels that she (and your children) come after your family of origin.

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


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## Yeswecan

This is a "Cut the apron strings" situation. Once married the apron strings to mom are cut.


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## sa58

dvsninja2 said:


> Been married for 9 years and 4 years ago after our kids were born it all began to change. I used to have a good relationship with my parents but there were some issues early on. One great example and probably the worse thing that happened was our first child's baptism. He was pretty sick when we brought him home and my wife and I both agreed that we would do the baptism and have a party. One condition would be that no one would hold our son during the party, my wife just wanted to protect him and not further any complications and I respected that. My mom ended up coming up to me and asking if my brother could hold his nephew. This cause major issues because I ended up going to my wife asking her if it would be OK and it wasn't. I should have never asked my wife and confronted my mom but I did not. This was the worse issue we have had, but there have been many disrespectful situations. I do not believe my mother is bad or evil like my wife does, she just does things differently and I want to try to fix them whereas my wife wants to just remove the problem and have no relationship. It has been a year since any of us have seen my family and it is tearing me up, I want to find a solution, resolve, and compromise to have a relationship. I have asked if I can see my parents and if I can take our kids and gauge her reaction. Basically told if I do so she might not be home when I get back. For my wife she sees this as a picking my parents over her, that I am not listening to her and disregarding her concerns. She feels my mother hates her and is purposely trying to destroy our marriage. I do understand my wife's side that it might feel like I am throwing her feelings away by seeing my parents. If she is angry and hurt then so should I and that I should also not want to see my parents. As my wife would say, "why would you want to see people who are so toxic". The problem is I feel my wife is the toxic person sometimes and this leads to resentment.
> 
> On top of all of this I feel she has been an emotional manipulator. When we talk about anything she will tell me the things I am doing wrong and when I try to explain that I do it because she said, did, or didn't do something which made me assume or feel a certain way; she states that I am pushing the blame on her and making her feel bad about herself then shuts down. My goal is not to blame but to point out the reason for my actions and hopefully find resolve. I know I am not perfect and I have often considered if I am the emotional manipulator or toxic person. In the end I feel I am doing a good job, showing appreciation for her work, being a SHM, constant chores and watching the kids when I can. Meanwhile she has been sitting on the couch on her phone nonstop for the lat 4 years which I am constantly doing something with the house and kids. She claims I ignore her and am not including her but I always ask her to do something with us, ask her about her day, preoccupy the kids to give her a break. She makes me feel so guilty about the things I have to say, for not saying anything at all, and the things I do. I often get into discussions with her having certain feelings but after she counters I start to get completely different feelings like guilt on myself.
> 
> We started marriage counseling a year ago and it has now become individual counseling for her per our therapists recommendations. I think this says a lot about the situation.
> 
> I shared a lot and I am trying to figure out what to do, what is the issue, how do I solve it, can I solve it? If your spouse didn't want you or your kids to see your family and you did, what would you do?


First

If you and your wife agree about something concerning your
kids ( you and her ) you stick with it. Your parents raised you,
now you and your wife raise your kids. My wife in the past has
asked me what do I think about our son and our grand daughter.
I tell her that he is her father and a grown person, his daughter!!
My son is also divorced so my grand daughter has two extended 
families. Since you talk about your mother what does your father have 
to say about this ? Maybe he should talk with your mother. 

Second

Continue the IC for now, it may or may not help.
You may want to consider IC yourself. Both of you
are involved in this situation Her trying and presently 
manipulating this and you feeling guilty about everything.
You are not perfect but neither is she, or your parents.
If you and her continue to nit pick about everything and 
hold everything against each other, it will not work. End it now!!
Either the marriage or the blame game. Two people raising kids
and trying to live their lives are going to disagree sometimes.
It happens, just don't hold it against each other forever and a day.

Third

Your wife and kids are your family now. If your wife and you disagree
about something ( with the kids especially ) you can seek advice from 
family and friends. You and your wife then decide not extended family.
If your family decides to get involved tell them to stay out of it. She 
needs to do the same. Unless both of you want them involved. 

Fourth

Remember the kids are seeing this and should not be.
Speaking as a grand father who raised his kids, it is not 
my job to raise theirs. It is my job to spoil them rotten
and to love them. Unless something terrible happens 
God forbid, that is what I do. 

Finally 
This sounds lie it may take some time to work out.
How long, you and only you can decide, until enough
is enough.


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## BluesPower

Marc878 said:


> For this marriage to survive you'll have to eliminate your side of the family (cut all ties) and become a total doormat to your wife. Relinquish all parental rights of your children to your wife.
> 
> Once that's accomplished you should be fine.





dvsninja2 said:


> That sounds incredibly hard, scary, and almost unreasonable? Can you explain more of why this has to happen?


What marc is saying is the following. You are a weak man, and a weak person in general. Get it. 

You are not strong enough to actually explain why she cannot hold the sick baby right now (because he is sick). Not that I agree with your wife's attitude about this but you did agree. So you we a weak chump that did not stand up for the agreement that you already made or your wife. 

Then, you are not able to stand up to your controlling wife and tell her you are a grown ass man, and if you want to take the kids to see your folks you will. Again, weak ass move. 

A strong man is able to navigate these issues and bend everyone to YOUR will. He is able to tell everyone to **** off, your mother, your wife and whoever else is out of line. 

So my brother, you are in for a complete life of misery because you cannot stand up to anyone, and you are blowing like a reed in the wind, never taking control of the situation, and posting on the internet asking why this is happening. 

Do you get what marc is saying now????


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## jsmart

You have to have your wife's back but she also has to be reasonable. It sounds like few minor incidences have been blown out of proportion. 

To forbid you from seeing your family and preventing your parents from seeing their grand kids is
not something that should be accepted. 

She's threatening to leave you for seeing your mother? Like @Marc878 said, it sounds like you're going to have to be a doormat to satisfy your wife. What I've read on line and seen in real life is that a man that submits to extreme demands of his wife, soon has a wife who looses respect for the husband and is even more unhappy in the marriage.


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## Diana7

NobodySpecial said:


> "He was pretty sick"
> 
> "my wife and I both agreed that we would do the baptism and have a party. One condition would be that no one would hold our son during the party"


If the child was THAT ill there is no way that they should have held a party with lots of people until he was better. 

It was just another way she controlled them all, they could have delayed the christening for a few weeks if the child was that bad.


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## Diana7

Araucaria said:


> I only read your opening post and this jumped out: you already knew your son was sick at the baptism and that your wife wanted to protect him by not letting anyone hold him in order to reduce the possibility of germs.
> 
> You put your wife in an uncomfortable situation, forcing her to be the bad guy when she had to tell your mother no.
> 
> You should have been your son's and wife's protector and told your mother "Sorry, he's been sick lately and we want to limit the amount of exposure to germs today. We'll let people hold him next time."
> 
> There was no reason for you to ask your wife on behalf of your mother.
> 
> If you have done more things like this, I understand why your wife feels that she (and your children) come after your family of origin.
> 
> Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


I she was THAT worried about germs, there is no way that she would have invited loads of people round until he was better. There was no hurry, they could have delayed it for a few weeks.


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## personofinterest

Diana7 said:


> If the child was THAT ill there is no way that they should have held a party with lots of people until he was better.
> 
> It was just another way she controlled them all, they could have delayed the christening for a few weeks if the child was that bad.


Wow, if I hand you my magic 8 ball, can you tell me whether I will win the lottery?


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## Adelais

Diana7 said:


> I she was THAT worried about germs, there is no way that she would have invited loads of people round until he was better. There was no hurry, they could have delayed it for a few weeks.


Yes they could have. But she thought it would be easier to just not let people gold the child. 

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


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## Deejo

Can you provide a bit more information about how you and your spouse compromise and come to terms?

Do you ever dictate or define the terms?
Does she respect you and your decision making?
Do you handle and make decisions that impact the family, or do you always consult with her?

Basically I'm asking if you feel you have a mutual partnership or do you walk around on egg shells, and not rock the boat


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## NobodySpecial

Diana7 said:


> If the child was THAT ill there is no way that they should have held a party with lots of people until he was better.


That is not what the OP asked about.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Deejo said:


> Can you provide a bit more information about how you and your spouse compromise and come to terms?
> 
> Do you ever dictate or define the terms?
> Does she respect you and your decision making?
> Do you handle and make decisions that impact the family, or do you always consult with her?
> 
> Basically I'm asking if you feel you have a mutual partnership or do you walk around on egg shells, and not rock the boat


OP: Deejo raises a good point for consideration. Some of us have ONLY focused on the potential issue of not backing up your wife. A balanced approach for long term happiness DEFINITELY includes making sure you are in a partnership. Egg shells and failure to rock boats does not work well in the long run.


----------



## dvsninja2

So be selfish and not considerate and not a partnership but a dictatorship...




BluesPower said:


> What marc is saying is the following. You are a weak man, and a weak person in general. Get it.
> 
> You are not strong enough to actually explain why she cannot hold the sick baby right now (because he is sick). Not that I agree with your wife's attitude about this but you did agree. So you we a weak chump that did not stand up for the agreement that you already made or your wife.
> 
> Then, you are not able to stand up to your controlling wife and tell her you are a grown ass man, and if you want to take the kids to see your folks you will. Again, weak ass move.
> 
> A strong man is able to navigate these issues and bend everyone to YOUR will. He is able to tell everyone to **** off, your mother, your wife and whoever else is out of line.
> 
> So my brother, you are in for a complete life of misery because you cannot stand up to anyone, and you are blowing like a reed in the wind, never taking control of the situation, and posting on the internet asking why this is happening.
> 
> Do you get what marc is saying now????


----------



## dvsninja2

Eggshells for for sure and not rocking the boat lately, but that is changing. I do consul with her on decisions that impact the family because it is a partnership. If wanted something that she disagreed with like above it was always doing what pleased her, but that is slowly changing so that I have some voice in the matter. A decision made alone would be viewed as inconsiderate to her and that I agree with. There needs to be mutual respect and being able to handle criticism on choices for each of us.



Deejo said:


> Can you provide a bit more information about how you and your spouse compromise and come to terms?
> 
> Do you ever dictate or define the terms?
> Does she respect you and your decision making?
> Do you handle and make decisions that impact the family, or do you always consult with her?
> 
> Basically I'm asking if you feel you have a mutual partnership or do you walk around on egg shells, and not rock the boat


----------



## dvsninja2

Agreed, I handled it wrong and cant go back and change it. She is right to have been angry with me over this and I was not her protector.



Araucaria said:


> I only read your opening post and this jumped out: you already knew your son was sick at the baptism and that your wife wanted to protect him by not letting anyone hold him in order to reduce the possibility of germs.
> 
> You put your wife in an uncomfortable situation, forcing her to be the bad guy when she had to tell your mother no.
> 
> You should have been your son's and wife's protector and told your mother "Sorry, he's been sick lately and we want to limit the amount of exposure to germs today. We'll let people hold him next time."
> 
> There was no reason for you to ask your wife on behalf of your mother.
> 
> If you have done more things like this, I understand why your wife feels that she (and your children) come after your family of origin.
> 
> Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


----------



## BluesPower

dvsninja2 said:


> So be selfish and not considerate and not a partnership but a dictatorship...


Yeah, I thought I was wasting time. 

So last try. 

There are ways to be strong and not a dictator. I suspect that your mom was controlling and told your dad what to do if he stayed around. So turns out that you made the decision to marry a controlling woman. You are used to not having to think and being told what to do... 

I could be wrong but this is usually how it goes.

For example, if the kid was too sick to be held, he was too sick to have a party in the first place. 

You could have just talked with her or just made the decision that today was not the day. 

Another example. If your wife does not like your folks, OK, not cool but ok. 

Then why is it that a grown man cannot say, "I am taking the kids to see my folks, you are welcome to come or not", and then go? Why could you not do that, because she MIGHT GET MAD, OK she can get mad. But those kids are as much yours as they are hers, you have the right as a grown man, to take YOUR kids to see your folks. If she wants to leave the just leave, if she is that pissed off... 

Here is the deal, you don't have the strength to make adult decisions and act like an adult, don't you think it is time to change that in you life?


----------



## dvsninja2

Much better way of putting it. You are right and that is all I got at this time. I am scared of her feelings and getting mad and it holds me back and all I am doing in enabling her behavior.

To be clear with my kid being sick, he "was" sick (not the kind to be worried about germs) but we were released from the hospital and I think it freaked us out so much we just did things more conservatively with passing him around.



BluesPower said:


> Yeah, I thought I was wasting time.
> 
> So last try.
> 
> There are ways to be strong and not a dictator. I suspect that your mom was controlling and told your dad what to do if he stayed around. So turns out that you made the decision to marry a controlling woman. You are used to not having to think and being told what to do...
> 
> I could be wrong but this is usually how it goes.
> 
> For example, if the kid was too sick to be held, he was too sick to have a party in the first place.
> 
> You could have just talked with her or just made the decision that today was not the day.
> 
> Another example. If your wife does not like your folks, OK, not cool but ok.
> 
> Then why is it that a grown man cannot say, "I am taking the kids to see my folks, you are welcome to come or not", and then go? Why could you not do that, because she MIGHT GET MAD, OK she can get mad. But those kids are as much yours as they are hers, you have the right as a grown man, to take YOUR kids to see your folks. If she wants to leave the just leave, if she is that pissed off...
> 
> Here is the deal, you don't have the strength to make adult decisions and act like an adult, don't you think it is time to change that in you life?


----------



## NobodySpecial

dvsninja2 said:


> Much better way of putting it. You are right and that is all I got at this time. I am scared of her feelings and getting mad and it holds me back and all I am doing in enabling her behavior.
> 
> To be clear with my kid being sick, he "was" sick (not the kind to be worried about germs) but we were released from the hospital and I think it freaked us out so much we just did things more conservatively with passing him around.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you did with the kid. In any event, it is completely beside the point that you are wrestling with. There is a balance to be struck between partnering with your wife and being a milquetoast pushover. Scared of her feelings is bad for you. Can't be much fun. Also, as intuitive as it is, can also lead to major lack of respect over time.

The tough part is that habit has been formed. Changing your action will likely yield unpleasant REaction from her for a time.


----------



## Openminded

Not all of us get a great, or even good, MIL. I would have settled for just an okay one but that didn't happen. I was more than willing, after many difficult years, for my husband and child to visit his parents without me (he wouldn't) so I differ in that way from your wife. Where I don't differ is "our child, our rules". If it was known ahead of time that there would be no passing the baby around and your mom tried to get you to agree anyway, then she was definitely in the wrong. That one incident though doesn't seem banishment worthy so obviously your wife has a list of other things your mom has done. Is there a solution that makes everyone happy? Maybe. It can happen. But some have to eventually make a choice between their parents and their spouse. There's not always a good ending to family disputes.


----------



## Diana7

NobodySpecial said:


> That is not what the OP asked about.


Its relevant to her controlling behaviour.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Diana7 said:


> Its relevant to her controlling behaviour.


Um.
"We agreed."


----------



## sa58

Just from reading some of your responses I
think you have realized you need to make 
some changes. I think you really want to
make things work. Your wife needs to realize 
this and make some changes also. The extended
families ( both sides ) need to realize this also 

How many kids do you have ?
The first child is always a learning experience.
You are correct in that this is a partnership.
Not one sided in her direction or yours.

Some may agree or disagree but I think 
you are starting to move in the right direction.
You realize you are not perfect and things have 
happened. First step. Second step, searching for a way
to fix things. She must be willing also.

Just remember you can only fix and control yourself.
She has to take care of herself, and be willing to change.


----------



## Mr. Nail

@dvsninja2 , in what other way does your wife isolate you? Is there any other abuse in the relationship?

Really if you are just stuck in the middle of a tiff between your mom and your wife, Tell your mom to fix it, she broke it, then support your wife.
If it is just part of a program of isolation and control, then put your foot down and demand your rights.
If abuse has approached physical violence, take the kids and seek shelter.


----------



## MJJEAN

Ok, everybody head on over to Reddit's JustNoMIL and read threads for 10 minutes. Then head over to JustNoSO and sort for the spouses who are close to being single because of their boundary stomping families and their determination to minimize their behaviors as "but it was just only.." Then come back and read this thread again.

I have a strong feeling OP is minimizing his mothers behavior and isn't even reporting on what has happened between her and his wife when he wasn't around. If I'm correct in my hunch, she's not controlling so much as completely unwilling to have boundary stomping in-laws interfering with her marriage or parenting.

Also, it's common for doctors to instruct that new babies just released from the hospital not be held by unvaccinated adults (those who haven't had vaccines or who haven't had boosters and flu vaccine recently) or be exposed to those who are ill. If the baby was sick and just released from the hospital, OP's wife was absolutely right not to let anyone hold baby.


----------



## NobodySpecial

MJJEAN said:


> Ok, everybody head on over to Reddit's JustNoMIL and read threads for 10 minutes. Then head over to JustNoSO and sort for the spouses who are close to being single because of their boundary stomping families and their determination to minimize their behaviors as "but it was just only.." Then come back and read this thread again.
> 
> I have a strong feeling OP is minimizing his mothers behavior and isn't even reporting on what has happened between her and his wife when he wasn't around. If I'm correct in my hunch, she's not controlling so much as completely unwilling to have boundary stomping in-laws interfering with her marriage or parenting.
> 
> Also, it's common for doctors to instruct that new babies just released from the hospital not be held by unvaccinated adults (those who haven't had vaccines or who haven't had boosters and flu vaccine recently) or be exposed to those who are ill. If the baby was sick and just released from the hospital, OP's wife was absolutely right not to let anyone hold baby.


Ugh. It was just. It was only. Been there, done that.


----------



## Deejo

We can only ever deal with the person we have posting and what they are willing to share.

Sure, we can interrogate the hell out of them but if that only scares them off, then certainly no good is served.

@dvsninja2 To be very clear, we sure can't fix, or directly address your wife or your mother. We can only advise, or share our own experiences and outcomes with you.


I will provide you with one fundamental truth if you choose to address and change the current dynamic. It's going to make you very uncomfortable. It will likely make your wife and potentially mother want to challenge every single thing that comes out of your mouth. 

Sometimes to fix something broken, you need to break it some more.


----------



## ConanHub

dvsninja2 said:


> For the sake of my children and the commitment I made a long-shot is hopeful for me. Question is how does it play out. Like DR Strange and the 14 million outcomes with only 1 win, I still want to pursue that 1 possibility that makes everything work out.


I don't personally believe it will be that difficult.

I can see where your family needs put in their place BY YOU and I can see where your wife needs put in her place about other issues.

I can't believe you didn't tell your mom what was up when she asked to have someone hold your baby when you and your wife already discussed it!

I would be explosive if my wife did that to me.

That being said, your wife doesn't sound entirely healthy in some other areas that don't pertain to your family.

As for your family, if they don't respect your wife and your family boundaries, they need gone.

People like that are toxic and a disease for relatives marriages.

I have a close friend who cut all ties after years of this nonsense and almost losing his wife over it.


----------



## Marc878

dvsninja2 said:


> That sounds incredibly hard, scary, and almost unreasonable? Can you explain more of why this has to happen?


Marriage should be for two. Apparently your wife wants and does control it 100%. You don't seem to have a say in anything.

Why?


----------



## Marc878

personofinterest said:


> He's either being a smart aleck and attacking your wife or he has read too much MB.
> 
> Either way, disowning your family is NOT necessary. Being a HUSBAND and not a mama's boy IS.


Some women apparently like being married to doormats at least for a time. Probably due to a lack of ability in working/parenting together or other life skills.


----------



## SpinyNorman

dvsninja2 said:


> For the sake of my children and the commitment I made a long-shot is hopeful for me. Question is how does it play out. Like DR Strange and the 14 million outcomes with only 1 win, I still want to pursue that 1 possibility that makes everything work out.


I think this makes sense. I think a lot of people on this site don't think anyone can ever change, or that if they do they shouldn't be forgiven. 

Don't let your wife veto your or your kids' relationship w/ your parents. Do take your wife's side if your parents are being disrespectful to her. Do work w/ your wife and/or a therapist to get her to see this isn't a war.


----------



## Diana7

NobodySpecial said:


> Um.
> "We agreed."


Of course he didn't, he is far too terrified to disagree with her, even to the extent of not seeing his own family for a year.


----------



## Diana7

Unless we are told what sort of things the wife is annoyed about its not easy to see who is to blame here. Some parents are very difficult, but some wives are also highly manipulative and controlling. She is using the children as pawns in her behaviour 

When you get married you also have to make some effort with the family. Unless they are addicts, or violent, or always drunk, or some other very serious issue, you make an effort to get on and see them, or at least let your OH see them with the children. 

I haven't heard anything here that says the parents are in anyway toxic. What I do see is a wife making threats and manipulating her husband to cut him off from his family. If it was a man doing that with a woman, there they would be an outcry of how awful and controlling her husband was and that she needs to leave him.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

> It has been a year since any of us have seen my family and it is tearing me up, I want to find a solution, resolve, and compromise to have a relationship. I have asked if I can see my parents and if I can take our kids and gauge her reaction. Basically told if I do so she might not be home when I get back. For my wife she sees this as a picking my parents over her, that I am not listening to her and disregarding her concerns.


He has had no contact with his family for a year, at her behest. This is based on her request and the actions of his own family. This means he has followed her demands and I am not sure how he doesn't have her back. He didn't the first time, sick kid at a large gathering is silly to me, but now he has backed her so much he isn't seeing his family. 

Anyway, give us some concrete examples of your family's toxic behavior. Right now, your wife sounds like a manipulative control freak. Actually, I can go get you threads where some posters would be telling a woman to run. That her spouse is emotionally abusive and is trying isolate her from her family to increase the level and type of abuse.


----------



## Edmund

dvsninja2 said:


> That sounds incredibly hard, scary, and almost unreasonable? Can you explain more of why this has to happen?


I believe Marc878 is being facetious.


----------



## Edmund

personofinterest said:


> So your wife is not your family?


Oh come on, you know what he meant. Are you and Nobody Special trying to be the feminist brigade today? Frankly, insisting that one's spouse end all contact with his/her family "of origin" is totally unreasonable and will eventually end the marriage.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Edmund said:


> Oh come on, you know what he meant. Are you and Nobody Special trying to be the feminist brigade today?


Oh the respect for others' points of view which is oft touted is so warm and friendly! For the record, this is the approach rightly taken by my older sister when my Mom inserted herself in destructive ways. It is not a gendered issue.



> Frankly, insisting that one's spouse end all contact with his/her family "of origin" is totally unreasonable and will eventually end the marriage.


[/quote]

I can't remember which sage poster suggested more detail would aid in advice.

Yes, if ones' family of origin can't respect boundaries of a marriage and kids, then yah, I would not hang out with them either. That, actually, seems to resonate with the OP as does the caution of other posters not to continue to be a door mat. Seems like balanced advice to me.


----------



## NobodySpecial

dvsninja2 said:


> I agree with my wife that my mom has done disrespectful things, not evil. I do not agree with my wife on the consequences put into place with no contact with my parents.


It's hard to know. The "consequences" in my view should not be used as some punishment as with a recalcitrant child. If the "consequences" are being applied to that end, it's not nice and it won't work. Clearly your mother is not evil. Is that YOUR feeling or hers? 

You mention your issue as being like Dr Strange seeing the 1 solution in a sea of millions of missteps. It does not look like that through this lens of a 25 year marriage. It looks like you have a pretty standard and common set of issues to work through. But it does seem like you have a SET of coexisting conditions. For instance, you could have failed to have your wife's back AND your wife could be overly controlling at the same time. You have confirmed the former. But we don't have enough information to conclude the latter. 

I, personally, have not read this, but it comes highly recommended

https://www.amazon.com/Hold-Your-NUTs-Relationship-Manual/dp/0979054400

on how to enforce your boundaries in an effective, calm and loving way. 

I CAN almost promise you that if you think of this step in your journey as a bifurcation of two choices only - be Mr Passive walking on eggshells OR lay down the lay like a hammer to an anvil, you will not succeed with a happy marriage.

People on this board, your friends or whomever can tell you all day long what your wife SHOULD do. And they could well be right. But you don't get to control that. You only get to control you. You change your actions, and with love and hopefully the same values and loving that you had when you married, good reactions follow. 

I, personally, don't view ANYONE as forever except my kids. I birthed 'em, I am responsible. That does not mean that people are disposable. But toxic people, whether they are your family or not, can and should be jettisoned. Is your MIL toxic? From where I am sitting, you can't tell. She could just be a g'ma trying to get what she wants with little consideration. She could be a witch. My filter says you don't wind up being an eggshell walker without an overbearing ***** of a mother. But it _is my filter_ applied to what you wrote. 

Is your wife controlling? Again, from where I am sitting, you can't tell. We have one pretty mild story with a vague admission that there are others. She might be exasperated. We don't know. In either case, you have some actions you can do. Demonstrate you have her back. Enforce your own n.u.t.s. If she IS controlling, that can be difficult depending on how entrenched it is in personality. 

How would marriage counseling be for you guys?


----------



## NobodySpecial

Deejo said:


> We can only ever deal with the person we have posting and what they are willing to share.
> 
> Sure, we can interrogate the hell out of them but if that only scares them off, then certainly no good is served.
> 
> 
> @dvsninja2 To be very clear, we sure can't fix, or directly address your wife or your mother. We can only advise, or share our own experiences and outcomes with you.
> 
> 
> I will provide you with one fundamental truth if you choose to address and change the current dynamic. It's going to make you very uncomfortable. It will likely make your wife and potentially mother want to challenge every single thing that comes out of your mouth.
> 
> Sometimes to fix something broken, you need to break it some more.


TRUE. But.... an investment.


----------



## ConanHub

Edmund said:


> Oh come on, you know what he meant. Are you and Nobody Special trying to be the feminist brigade today? Frankly, insisting that one's spouse end all contact with his/her family "of origin" is totally unreasonable and will eventually end the marriage.


I have cut off contact with my in laws as a whole and individually over the years because of raging toxicity.

I have cut off one sister of mine permanently.

The reason was they were incredibly destructive to my family.

One sister in law tried to get my oldest son to emancipate himself from us because she didn't agree with our parental boundaries.

She got excommunicated until she tearfully repented.

My mother in law did not respect men. Strong men were despised by her and weak men were ridiculed and cared for.

She actually liked calling the shots for everyone and her husband was a first rate wimp.

She didn't respect her daughter's decisions unless they matched her own and would run rough shod over any rules or boundaries my wife had in place for our kids 

She openly disrespected me and slandered me every time she visited with my wife.

Mrs. Conan eventually shut her and her sisters down about their derision of me and even stopped bringing our children when she went to see her mother.

There was a short time when they were all cut off.

Marriage destroying relatives are not necessary to keep in your life unless you are a wimp little momma's boy.

I do believe OP has exhibited momma's wimp tendencies and I have seen almost as many marriages destroyed by momma's boys as adultery.

I'm not ignoring women with controlling mothers in my post but OP is a momma's boy.

If the dippy wench can't control her idiocy, she does need excommunicated from OP's family.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Marc878 said:


> Some women apparently like being married to doormats at least for a time. Probably due to a lack of ability in working/parenting together or other life skills.


I don't think this is true. I think these kinds of adaptations are a result of the context of their lives.


----------



## lifeistooshort

As a mother of sons, stuff like this makes me think about the kind of mother in law I want to be.


----------



## NobodySpecial

ConanHub said:


> If the dippy wench can't control her idiocy, she does need excommunicated from OP's family.


I think it is far harder when the parents who need to be banished are your own. For DH and I, having the one whose family it is handle these conflicts was important so that the family was forced to face the facts on the ground rather than simply deride the spouse who was clearly an <insert expletive here>. My Mom can be a red hot *****, but she respects when someone makes a stand which I did very early on. She has not uttered one difficult sentence since. My FIL definitely needed an expectation adjustment from my husband. His (FIL's) head was blown out of the gate by seeing a partner-style relationship rather than a man in charge style. My husband is a VERY easy going guy. FIL mistook him for a pansy. Which he definitely is not. In my holiday example, DH could not care less where we spend a holiday. When his father attacked him, he really had no way to know who was right. It seemed pretty reasonable to him to stay with his parents for that holiday. He was not privy to the exchanges with his mother. But he knew that he for sure did not want his father thinking he had some patriarchal, dictatorial authority over HIS (husband's) family. It wasn't until we got in the car to leave that we both looked at each other and asked WTF was that that he even knew that I had tried to make arrangements with his mother.

In the end, we just had a laugh that his father escalated to the physical and how funny it would have been if DH had to beat his ass.

Boundaries set, FIL decided to learn to play nice.


----------



## NobodySpecial

lifeistooshort said:


> As a mother of sons, stuff like this makes me think about the kind of mother in law I want to be.


LOL! My eldest asked me to please advise him when they had kids. Won't you tell me when I make a mistake. I laughed. Hell no. I guess it is sweet that they like and respect my opinion. But there is no way I would insert myself into their family. I will smile when I am invited to dinner and hopefully play games with everyone. And I will be the nicest person his significant other ever met.


----------



## CDR No Longer Lost

Sir, you have a controlling wife and what seems like an overbearing Mother. Both can be managed if you assert yourself manfully. I hope you possess the agency to navigate through this.


----------



## personofinterest

NobodySpecial said:


> Marc878 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some women apparently like being married to doormats at least for a time. Probably due to a lack of ability in working/parenting together or other life skills.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think this is true. I think these kinds of adaptations are a result of the context of their lives.
Click to expand...

 I wouldn't want to be married to a doormat at all. But I certainly expect to be married to a man who is a going to throw me under the bus for his mama.


----------



## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> I wouldn't want to be married to a doormat at all. But I certainly expect to be married to a man who is a going to throw me under the bus for his mama.


I know a woman who is really controlling. It's pretty sad, but if you know of her life, as I do, you would understand why she seizes control and won't let go. She is getting divorced now. You know, I am not into fault. But if it is anyone's fault, it is hard not to think of it as hers. But I can still have empathy and sympathy for her situation. No matter that her husband, while not perfect by any means always did have her back by her own words, kids and therapist all have told her that this is a problem for HER, she Just Can't See it. Boo for everyone.


----------



## Spicy

Wife/MIL relationships can be really tricky.

I’ve been thinking about this since you posted it, and how I would handle it going forward. I agree, it didn’t get handled right, but we all make mistakes. I can see both sides of this, and now you are in a pickle.

I would take this is phases. 

1. Sit down lovingly with your wife and say “Baby, I’ve made some mistakes in how I handled things with my parents. I’m so sorry that I let you down. I feel like I have learned from that, and will do my very best never to let that happen again.”

2. After hearing her reply say, “How much do you love our kids?” She will say more than anything in the world etc. Then say, “Do you think our parents loved/love us that much?” She will say yes they do. Then ask, “Can you imagine never seeing our little Timmy or Beth again?” Let her answer, and then you talk about how you would feel if you never saw your kids again. Don’t hurry this convo, really let everyone’s emotions be known.

3. I have been thinking a lot about what could ever keep you and I from spending time with our kids. It would have to be some pretty terrible circumstances. If you or I had the power to fix the circumstances, do you think we would?

4. I have spent so much time thinking about how this small rift has made you and I feel. But recently, I tried putting myself in my parents shoes and I can’t help thinking how this rift is making them feel. _I am their little Timmy and Beth. _ If you and I would be willing to do anything to be with our kids, I bet they feel the same.

5. I think if you are willing to help me, we can improve this situation. We can work as a team and make this better. I have a few ideas. Will you help me?

6. When/if she is ready to help, suggest the two of you come up with a plan to visit your parents and have a heart to heart discussion. Plan that this discussion will include apologies if some are needed, but also address grievances. The endgame is that you want to establish the boundaries that your wife is comfortable with, and give those clearly to your parents. Propose a fresh start. I think they will all readily agree to that, and will most likely stay on their best behavior so they can regain their son and grandkids.

I wish you the best. Family is extremely important. You want to enjoy them while you have them. It’s worth the effort.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Spicy said:


> Wife/MIL relationships can be really tricky.
> 
> I’ve been thinking about this since you posted it, and how I would handle it going forward. I agree, it didn’t get handled right, but we all make mistakes. I can see both sides of this, and now you are in a pickle.
> 
> I would take this is phases.
> 
> 1. Sit down lovingly with your wife and say “Baby, I’ve made some mistakes in how I handled things with my parents. I’m so sorry that I let you down. I feel like I have learned from that, and will do my very best never to let that happen again.”
> 
> 2. After hearing her reply say, “How much do you love our kids?” She will say more than anything in the world etc. Then say, “Do you think our parents loved/love us that much?” She will say yes they do. Then ask, “Can you imagine never seeing our little Timmy or Beth again?” Let her answer, and then you talk about how you would feel if you never saw your kids again. Don’t hurry this convo, really let everyone’s emotions be known.


The post is great advice. Maybe I am cynical, but this is not how I would open the reconciliation convo. I would highlight the benefits to the kids to have engaged grandparents. The robot in me thinks speaking to her motivation, to start, would be a more winning strategy.


----------



## frusdil

My username stands for FRUStrated Daughter In Law...Frusdil. I have inlaws from hell.

I haven't seen or spoken to any of my inlaws in 5 years, my husband hasn't seen or spoken to his sister in 5 years, not seen his parents for 2 years but speaks to them on the phone occasionally.

The short version is, they have never liked me, they don't believe I am good enough for their son (I am). They were the same with his first wife. It's not us, it's them. MIL tried to talk my husband out of my moving in with him, also engaging his sister who said to him "that was quick" (it wasn't and it's not their business anyway) and did he have time that evening for "coffee and a chat". No *****, he had a date, with ME. That was the start. 

What led to the big division, was my SIL pulled me up over something I posted on FB, where I referenced my (step)daughter. My husband, as usual, didn't defend me, so I defended myself and pointed out some home truths. She then proceeded to send my husband an email, further inferring and accusing me of things that were not true, so I responded to that as well, with more home truths. Had it remained between the three of us it would have been resolved long ago. But no, li'l Miss Spinster-Enmeshed with Mummy and Daddy, decided to reveal all to their parents, with no warning to hubby (she previously told him she wouldn't) and it's now become bigger than Ben Hur. MIL has said things about me to my husband that I can't come back from, they are so despicable.

It's unacceptable to me that my husband would willingly spend time with people who hate my guts.

He's tried to talk to MIL about it but she shouted him down so he gave up. It's just easier not to see them. Our life is much more peaceful.

I want to be clear that I do want him to repair his relationship with them, and I was also clear to him that most of my motivation for that is fear for our marriage if something happened to them...I don't want him to resent me. They can go to hell as far as I'm concerned, I have no interest in a relationship with them but want him to have one. I NEED him to put them in their place first though, tell them that the way they have treated me, and the things MIL has said are unacceptable, downright disgusting and that going forward they are not to speak of me that way again, ever.

He is unable to do that, fear I think, so here we are...

*note, if my family spoke to or about him in this way I wouldn't hesitate to put them back in their box, and it wouldn't be "please don't do that" it would be "how dare you say that".


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## frusdil

I also want to add that I don't agree with withholding the children from loving grandparents. Children should never be dragged into adult problems. That is so wrong. I wouldn't do that.

One negative comment about me from them, to or around my children though and hell would rain down upon them.


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## MJJEAN

frusdil said:


> I also want to add that I don't agree with withholding the children from loving grandparents. Children should never be dragged into adult problems. That is so wrong. I wouldn't do that.
> 
> One negative comment about me from them, to or around my children though and hell would rain down upon them.


My exMIL was a very loving grandparent and one of my biggest regrets was NOT keeping her from my kids. She consistently undermined me, literally encouraged my children to lie to me on multiple occasions, interfered endlessly, and talked smack about me and my parenting choices to the kids and to others in front of the kids regularly. Not to mention the sneaking around, unsafe relatives who shouldn't be around kids at all she'd take them to see cuz faaaamiiily, and more! If I knew then what I know now, I'd have gone NC with that woman before my 2nd kid was even born.


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## ConanHub

MJJEAN said:


> My exMIL was a very loving grandparent and one of my biggest regrets was NOT keeping her from my kids. She consistently undermined me, literally encouraged my children to lie to me on multiple occasions, interfered endlessly, and talked smack about me and my parenting choices to the kids and to others in front of the kids regularly. Not to mention the sneaking around, unsafe relatives who shouldn't be around kids at all she'd take them to see cuz faaaamiiily, and more! If I knew then what I know now, I'd have gone NC with that woman before my 2nd kid was even born.


Can't agree more with this post. You just can't allow toxic relatives into your children's lives because of the family connection.


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## frusdil

MJJEAN said:


> My exMIL was a very loving grandparent and one of my biggest regrets was NOT keeping her from my kids. She consistently undermined me, literally encouraged my children to lie to me on multiple occasions, interfered endlessly, and talked smack about me and my parenting choices to the kids and to others in front of the kids regularly. Not to mention the sneaking around, unsafe relatives who shouldn't be around kids at all she'd take them to see cuz faaaamiiily, and more! If I knew then what I know now, I'd have gone NC with that woman before my 2nd kid was even born.


I can see why you feel that way. In that case, I absolutely would keep the children from them for their own safety.

My inlaws, as much as I loathe them, wouldn't do that. Interfere yes, and be generally overbearing, but they wouldn't put them in physical danger.


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## red oak

dvsninja2 said:


> *my wife wants to just remove the problem and have no relationship.,,,, I have asked if I can see my parents and if I can take our kids and gauge her reaction. Basically told if I do so she might not be home when I get back. *For my wife she sees this as a picking my parents over her, that I am not listening to her and disregarding her concerns. She feels my mother hates her and is purposely trying to destroy our marriage. I do understand my wife's side that it might feel like I am throwing her feelings away by seeing my parents. If she is angry and hurt then so should I and that I should also not want to see my parents. As my wife would say, "why would you want to see people who are so toxic". The problem is I feel my wife is the toxic person sometimes and this leads to resentment.
> 
> On top of all of this I feel she has been an emotional manipulator. *When we talk about anything she will tell me the things I am doing wrong and when I try to explain that I do it because she said, did, or didn't do something which made me assume or feel a certain way; she states that I am pushing the blame on her and making her feel bad about herself then shuts down.* My goal is not to blame but to point out the reason for my actions and hopefully find resolve. I know I am not perfect and I have often considered if I am the emotional manipulator or toxic person. In the end I feel I am doing a good job, showing appreciation for her work, being a SHM, constant chores and watching the kids when I can. *Meanwhile she has been sitting on the couch on her phone nonstop for the lat 4 years which I am constantly doing something with the house and kids. * She claims I ignore her and am not including her but I always ask her to do something with us, ask her about her day, preoccupy the kids to give her a break. She makes me feel so guilty about the things I have to say, for not saying anything at all, and the things I do. I often get into discussions with her having certain feelings but after she counters I start to get completely different feelings like guilt on myself.
> 
> We started marriage counseling a year ago and it has now become individual counseling for her per our therapists recommendations. I think this says a lot about the situation.
> 
> I shared a lot and I am trying to figure out what to do, what is the issue, how do I solve it, can I solve it? If your spouse didn't want you or your kids to see your family and you did, what would you do?



Unless you have left out lots of your, and your mothers behavior your wife is being excessively controlling.
Lots of her behavior reeks of misdirection and redirection. 

Read up on, alienation, manipulative and controlling behavior.

The day my wife told me if I go visit someone she would leave wouldn't be a good day. However if my mother got out of line, which she wouldn't, I would also remind her I am a grown man.


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## MJJEAN

frusdil said:


> I can see why you feel that way. In that case, I absolutely would keep the children from them for their own safety.
> 
> My inlaws, as much as I loathe them, wouldn't do that. Interfere yes, and be generally overbearing, but they wouldn't put them in physical danger.


For me, now that I'm not literally a freshly minted adult with a still hardening spine, the telling my kids to lie to me and otherwise undermining my authority as their parent would be enough to go NC. Add in talking smack about me and my parenting choices? Add in being all up in my business? Yeah, no.

The relative I referred to wasn't likely to be a physical danger, but she was a card carrying addict and I didn't want her around my kids, period. Not even when she was sober. My wishes should have been respected. But it was my MIL's sister, Aunt to my ex and Great Aunt to my kid, so MIL would do it anyway.

None of us know the situation with the OP and his family, but if her in-laws are boundary stomping, disregarding the wife's parenting choices/decisions, getting all up in their personal marital business, and/or generally being toxic I don't blame her for drawing a line in the sand. 

The people who think she may be a controlling wench could be absolutely right. But, due to the absolute vagueness of the post, I think this is a woman who's reached the end of her rope and has decided that she's done. She doesn't want the in-laws in her life even peripherally and if her husband is going to be involved with them then she can no longer be involved with him.


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## red oak

https://www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Behaviors/subtle_control.html


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## Diana7

lifeistooshort said:


> As a mother of sons, stuff like this makes me think about the kind of mother in law I want to be.



I am a MIL and I never interfere. I even ask one of the parents if their children wants something to eat or drink if its ok. I support them if needed but I don't offer advise unless they ask for it. I never speak badly about my DIL ever, and I treat my son and his wife equally when to comes to things like birthdays and Christmas etc. 
I am fortunate that I get on well with my DIL. It helps that we are both pretty easy going, accepting and low maintenance women. 

However I hear so many sad stories about when the wife has made it so hard if not impossible for the grandparents to see their own grandchildren. How sad that is. Unless there are serious reasons such as drug or drink addictions, abuse, violence etc then let them have that relationship. Its very precious. 

Its so very selfish to try and control your husband and children in that way, and isolate the husbands family. If she doesn't want to go then let her stay at home, but threatening to leave him if he goes and see his own parents is just appalling highly manipulative behaviour.

I even still have contact with my ex husband's family 19 years after my marriage ended, because I didn't want my own children to loose that contact with them. Sometimes we must make that effort for others rather than think only of ourselves.


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## dvsninja2

So my mom tries to take control of events which is another big issue to my wife. For me I am used to it (2 brothers and myself) she had to take control in order for events to take place, my wife hates it. Last Christmas we were invited and said we could not make the date and they never tried to plan another date. Wife and SIL tried to plan a birthday party for my mom which worked best for all the kids. The kept trying to change the event to be what she wanted. I stood my ground and told my mom "why are you doing this" she had a fit and didnt want a party. Another occasion we were going to have a birthday party for both our sons, things went bad and it never happened and my mom withheld their gifts. My mom would make me feel guilty about the time I spent with my wifes family. My mom never says bad things just tries to control the situation. My wifes family has broken contact with all their family except a few while she was a kid so I feel it is what she knows. For me I was raised with a motto "family is family" as a larger unit not so much concentration on the individual families. So there is some more to the story.


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## NobodySpecial

dvsninja2 said:


> So my mom tries to take control of events which is another big issue to my wife. For me I am used to it (2 brothers and myself) she had to take control in order for events to take place, my wife hates it. Last Christmas we were invited and said we could not make the date and they never tried to plan another date. Wife and SIL tried to plan a birthday party for my mom which worked best for all the kids. The kept trying to change the event to be what she wanted. I stood my ground and told my mom "why are you doing this" she had a fit and didnt want a party. Another occasion we were going to have a birthday party for both our sons, things went bad and it never happened and my mom withheld their gifts. My mom would *make *me feel guilty about the time I spent with my wifes family. My mom never says bad things just tries to control the situation. My wifes family has broken contact with all their family except a few while she was a kid so I feel it is what she knows. For me I was raised with a motto "family is family" as a larger unit not so much concentration on the individual families. So there is some more to the story.


It is somewhat interesting that you are very hesitant to give much information around what specifically is going on. "It went bad". 

But one very important note. No one can MAKE you feel anything. 

You seem VERY wishy washy. You were raised... ok. Where are you NOW? Family is family has been how we roll as well, but by no means does that mean rolling over and tolerating crappy behavior.


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## ConanHub

Hmm. Birthday party for her grandkids, things go bad, (as in not her way), she withholds gifts for her own grandchildren because she wasn't in control?

I would have nothing to do with such an anal, narcissistic, destructive and bloated bag of gas either.

Your wife and children are far better off without her smelly ass poisoning your atmosphere.


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