# Marriage of Convenience or nothing?



## Oceancity

I have been married for 11 years and have two kids. I knew it wasn't right when we married but I loved enough about him to walk down the isle. He's a good man and a great dad. I don't want to feel this way and have tried to push away these feelings; and have for short periods of time; but the "flight" feeling always seems to come back. Is that normal? My family lives here and I have that support but his family live out of town and he would have no support here. That worries me if I were to leave. I feel that I just want some time on my own to see if there is something there to salvage. Is that wrong to ask for? We have fun and are closer as friend (in my opinion) then anything else. Intimacy with him is challenging--I don't enjoy it and it feels like a chore. I've searched my sole and don't find that I'm in love with him. We're very different and been through counciling several times. I'm ready to get out and want to see what others think. Thank you!!


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## DearPrincess

Hi Oceancity. I have been married three times as long as you and I have always felt that way, as well. I have often felt that it was my fault, perhaps for not giving it my all, but the truth is simple: If the chemistry isn't right, no matter how good the man, it's not going to be what you read about in romance novels. My man is also good, a great father and would do anything for me, which makes it even worse. I also live in an area where my husband does not have family, so leaving him would not be easy for him. He's also been unemployed for the past year and I would never leave without him having financial security. I have stayed this long in my marriage mainly for my children, but also because I love him. Unfortunately, not in a passionate way. I too dream of "flight," but a lot of that comes from having been a mom, housekeeper, cook, personal assistant, social coordinator, etc., for the past 30 something years. I'm simply burnt out and would love to just go to work, go to the gym, come home and eat what I want, when I want - you know, march to my own tune. I haven't had relations with my husband for the past 2 1/2 years due to several specific reasons, most of them on his part, but I felt as if I had prostituted myself for the prior 30 years because I never felt the level of passion I should have, so actually it's been great not feeling sexually obligated to him. As you said, it was a "chore." I wish there was an easy answer for you, but there isn't. We all have to make choices in our lives, often based on things other than ourselves. For me, staying married allowed me financial security (until now, that is), and the ability to work part-time so that I could be with my children as they grew up. This worked for me, although it often wasn't easy. You need to set your priorities and periodically go back and review them. As for me, I still have a child at home (in college) and I did not come this far to end it now while he still lives with me. With a weakened economy and husband out of work, I believe I may be able to take some action in a couple of years. I don't plan on ever remarrying, but you're much younger than me, so you may need to evaluate your situation differently. Good luck with your decision.


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## lastinline

I don't want to slam you Oceancity, but have you ever thought that it may be necessary for you to become a better wife in order to have a better husband?

My wife also says that I work hard, and that I'm an honorable, and decent man. I am also "demanding" in her opinion as I actually have a sex drive. She is always too "tired" as well. There is nothing more caustic to a man's soul than being repeatedly rejected by his wife. 

I am a very good looking man in excellent health. I easily look 10 years younger than my wife, and I am a very capable lover. She is depressed and has been for sometime, so her sex drive is nil. Her "commitment" supposedly is to our kids, but if that were actually true she would take far greater care of her marriage.

I wont bore you further with the specifics of my failed relationship. Oceancity, I promise you that you will never ever really love your husband or anyone else unless you completely commit to them. 

You said he is a good father and a good man, but that's not enough for you. You no longer want the union you pledged yourself to, and you're willing to dishonor the lives of your husband and two children simply because he doesn't get you all hot and bothered anymore. Shameful. 

I will share a bit of unwanted advice that I recently shared with my wife. She doesn't deserve me, and you don't deserve him. At some point every relationship comes down to being work. You will appreciate the giving relationship you've developed if God forbid one day you should ever become injured or ill. 

Oceancity, the tingles always go away and the butterflies always die off. However my dear, somewhere along the way I think you've mistaken love for chemical infatuation. Love is commitment. Love is sacrifice. Love is as much about giving as it is about getting, but you don't want to be told that love is work. I suspect you just want to hear that love is fun.

Anyway, you said you wanted to know what others think...

LIL


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## Oceancity

Thank you DearPrincess. You have some very valid points. 
I do feel that it is my fault, that I'm being selfish. I have tried to find those passionate feelings with no luck. Your right, the chemistry isn't right, no matter how good a man he is. I have found myself attracted to another man (absolutely nothing has happened) and those feelings are from the heart; I love it. I feel like I live in my head and never in my heart with my husband. It's comforting to know that I'm able to feel things in my heart--it's been along time.

I also have stayed this long in my marriage mainly for my children, Wow 2 1/2 years with no relations. My husband is a very touchey person and loves sex and I feel like to deserves to have that; but unfortunetly I don't want to give him that. Staying married would be easier but do I want easy, loveless, sexless? That's what I have to decide on. Thank you!


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## Oceancity

Thank you lastinline for your candor. I did want to hear what you think and you make a lot of excellent points. I have tried, tried very hard. I am not the perfect wife and would never say that I am but I have worked on my marriage. We have been to counciling several times and things always improve but he always reverts back to his very controlling and passive agressive nature. In order to be a better wife (from his perspective) I would have to have sex with him, intimate things. I feel like I'm rambling and what I want to convey isn't coming across the right way. When he touches me my skin actually crawls. That isn't right! That's not how I should feel about my husband. What do I do with that?


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## lastinline

Well I am not sure how to respond to the statement about "your skin crawling" Oceancity. I can't tell you what you should feel or do about that. I am honestly at a loss. 

In my situation it's just "energy" on my wife's behalf. I'm really not a priority to her, and that is a different problem altogether. I have always been a bit at a loss on the whole passive aggressive thing.

I have consulted the oracle for clarity. Are you saying he is displaying a lot of the following traits:

Ambiguity or speaking cryptically: a means of engendering a feeling of insecurity in others 

Chronically being late and forgetting things: another way to exert control or to punish. 

Fear of competition 

Fear of dependency 

Fear of intimacy as a means to act out anger: The passive aggressive often cannot trust. Because of this, they guard themselves against becoming intimately attached to someone. 

Making chaotic situations 

Making excuses for non-performance in work teams 

Obstructionism 

Sulking 

Victimization response: instead of recognizing one's own weaknesses, tendency to blame others for own failures. 

A passive-aggressive person may not have all of these behaviors, and may have other non-passive-aggressive traits.

If so with the exception of sulking, you've just described my wife as well. Intersting OC, and what's with the other "mystery" non-passive-aggressive traits. Seems too vague and convenient for an actual clinical DX.

LIL


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## Oceancity

LIL, "my skin crawls" means when he touches me or the thought of him touching me; I have this overwhelming high level of anxiety, scared, nausa feeling. Sometime one and other times a couple of those at once. 

Passive agressive, as it relates to him, means that he turns everything back around on me, can't admit fault and actually makes me feel it was my fault--a bunch of guilt.

I've denoted in all caps you list from the "oracle".

Ambiguity or speaking cryptically: a means of engendering a feeling of insecurity in others - YES

Chronically being late and forgetting things: another way to exert control or to punish. - FORGETTING THINGS AND MAKES ME FEEL BAD WHEN I WON'T REMIND HIS AFTER I'VE ALREADY DONE SO SEVERAL TIME BEFORE

Fear of competition - NO

Fear of dependency - NOT SURE HOW TO ANSWER THAT ONE

Fear of intimacy as a means to act out anger: The passive aggressive often cannot trust. Because of this, they guard themselves against becoming intimately attached to someone. - NOT SURE

Making chaotic situations - ALWAYS

Making excuses for non-performance in work teams - YEP.

Obstructionism - YEP.

Sulking - DEFINETLY

Victimization response: instead of recognizing one's own weaknesses, tendency to blame others for own failures. - IN A NON-DESCRETE WAY

A passive-aggressive person may not have all of these behaviors, and may have other non-passive-aggressive traits. - USE GUILT TO MAKE ME FEEL BAD AND PRETENDS THAT HE DOESN'T KNOW HE DOING IT.

If so with the exception of sulking, you've just described my wife as well. Intersting OC, and what's with the other "mystery" non-passive-aggressive traits. Seems too vague and convenient for an actual clinical DX.


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## Ataloss

:iagree: Oceancity,...can't believe how similar our situations are (except I have 3 kids). I noticed your last post dealing with the anxiety. I have that problem as well and my husband thinks I have generalized anxiety. I admit that I do have underlying potential for that but the anxiety I experience with intimacy is that I just DON'T want to do THAT anymore just to keep things afloat. He agrees now and doesn't approach me anymore, the forced intimacy (me forcing myself) has only served to carry us through all of these years and it's time to face the problem head on. It has to be right, period. And unfortunately, I don't know that it ever can be. The intimacy has never been right between us and has gotten even worse over the past several years. Unfortunately, I used my head over my heart when we decided to marry and I've analyzed why for a while now and have discovered that it's because I didn't trust my judgement in men...always fell for the wrong ones (unhealthy outcomes), using ONLY my heart and not my head. I won't place blame but just chalk it up to not having a good role model loving marital relationship in my parents who ended up divorcing. I don't want to do this to my kids and have them go through the same thing, but I'm not sure what else to do anymore. And, I KNOW that my husband and I can have an amicable divorce...we're already discussing things calmly and are figuring things out. 

If I had something to "rekindle," it would be a no-brainer, but unfortunately, my 11 year marriage started this way and we just plain out had life happen, time has flown, and here we are miserable together and our kids ARE paying for that. They don't see any love between us, not even a kiss here and there. My son has even noticed it now, which is heart breaking, he's only 6. Again, I believe we can divorce amicably but still hesitate due to the whole idea of uprooting, physically and emotionally for all 5 of us. 

Dear Princess, it's interesting to hear how you've handled your situation. I'm taking it from your post that you feel you've done the right thing but still come to the conclusion that ultimately, the chemistry needs to be there to keep the marriage permanent. I'm fairly young still but realize that it's possible I'll end up alone for a long time or for good even, BUT I'd rather have my head and my HEART make my choices in love and companionship and believe it's worth that risk. Life is too short to not experience that. Also, don't assume you'll never marry again should you divorce your husband. We just never know what life will bring; I don't believe age matters much when it comes to that. 

Oceancity, I'm eager to hear responses to your posts. Below your thread, under the listings of similar posts, there is one that talks about a couple who made it through and had been hanging on by a thread. They help other couples now due to their 32-year success in marriage. Every marriage self-help "thing" out on the internet seems to indicate couples working at something to get something back. We can't get back something that was never there. I feel guilty about all of this and I assume that LIL may give me some words on this (which I'll gladly accept), but it is what it is. I'm being brutally honest to my husband and myself because I believe that is the first step to happiness (whether that would mean divorce or developing a loving relationship that should have been there in the first place). I can actually say that I see a sense of relief in my husband now that he knows we are closer to happiness. It's nice to see. I want that for both of us.


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## Oceancity

Ataloss said:


> :iagree: Oceancity,...can't believe how similar our situations are (except I have 3 kids). I noticed your last post dealing with the anxiety. I have that problem as well and my husband thinks I have generalized anxiety. I admit that I do have underlying potential for that but the anxiety I experience with intimacy is that I just DON'T want to do THAT anymore just to keep things afloat. He agrees now and doesn't approach me anymore, the forced intimacy (me forcing myself) has only served to carry us through all of these years and it's time to face the problem head on. It has to be right, period. And unfortunately, I don't know that it ever can be. The intimacy has never been right between us and has gotten even worse over the past several years. Unfortunately, I used my head over my heart when we decided to marry and I've analyzed why for a while now and have discovered that it's because I didn't trust my judgement in men...always fell for the wrong ones (unhealthy outcomes), using ONLY my heart and not my head. I won't place blame but just chalk it up to not having a good role model loving marital relationship in my parents who ended up divorcing. I don't want to do this to my kids and have them go through the same thing, but I'm not sure what else to do anymore. And, I KNOW that my husband and I can have an amicable divorce...we're already discussing things calmly and are figuring things out.
> 
> If I had something to "rekindle," it would be a no-brainer, but unfortunately, my 11 year marriage started this way and we just plain out had life happen, time has flown, and here we are miserable together and our kids ARE paying for that. They don't see any love between us, not even a kiss here and there. My son has even noticed it now, which is heart breaking, he's only 6. Again, I believe we can divorce amicably but still hesitate due to the whole idea of uprooting, physically and emotionally for all 5 of us.
> 
> Dear Princess, it's interesting to hear how you've handled your situation. I'm taking it from your post that you feel you've done the right thing but still come to the conclusion that ultimately, the chemistry needs to be there to keep the marriage permanent. I'm fairly young still but realize that it's possible I'll end up alone for a long time or for good even, BUT I'd rather have my head and my HEART make my choices in love and companionship and believe it's worth that risk. Life is too short to not experience that. Also, don't assume you'll never marry again should you divorce your husband. We just never know what life will bring; I don't believe age matters much when it comes to that.
> 
> Oceancity, I'm eager to hear responses to your posts. Below your thread, under the listings of similar posts, there is one that talks about a couple who made it through and had been hanging on by a thread. They help other couples now due to their 32-year success in marriage. Every marriage self-help "thing" out on the internet seems to indicate couples working at something to get something back. We can't get back something that was never there. I feel guilty about all of this and I assume that LIL may give me some words on this (which I'll gladly accept), but it is what it is. I'm being brutally honest to my husband and myself because I believe that is the first step to happiness (whether that would mean divorce or developing a loving relationship that should have been there in the first place). I can actually say that I see a sense of relief in my husband now that he knows we are closer to happiness. It's nice to see. I want that for both of us.


Ataloss, we do have a bunch in common. The one thing I haven't been is honest with my husband. He doesn't know how I'm feeling or what I'm thinking. That's the next step--very scared. My kids don't see any love in our marriage. I try to put on the show for them; small kiss on the cheek..something like that but it's hard and I feel like a fake; which I know I am. I'm close with the realization that I could be alone for a long time and you know what, I'm alright with that. I chose this road it didn't choose me. I really just want to feel something again and feel whole again. I've lost parts of me and I'm ready to find them again. Thank you Ataloss for your words. I'd love to hear more from you.


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## goincrazy

Oceancity said:


> I have found myself attracted to another man (absolutely nothing has happened) and those feelings are from the heart; I love it. I feel like I live in my head and never in my heart with my husband. It's comforting to know that I'm able to feel things in my heart--it's been along time.


I find myself in a similar situation. It kind of blindsided me, actually. Like you, nothing has happened, but it does feel wonderful to know that you can have these feelings and that chemistry (of course I know that sparks only last for so long). It just blew me away because I kept thinking wow, I don't recall ever feeling this way about my husband. He is the one who has no interest in intimacy or sex though. Now it is to the point where I'm not even attracted to him anymore. I reached this point over time, and now I feel that there is nothing to rekindle. Also adding to the frustration over the years is that he won't even make an effort to see my family at all. He has not been with me for a visit since Christmas of 2006 (only a 4 hour drive). He feels no obligation or guilt about this at all. He wants to start a family and I find myself thankful that we don't have kids yet. I am thinking of leaving, and I hope that I will still be able to have a family with someone else (I am 32).


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## Ataloss

Oceancity said:


> Ataloss, we do have a bunch in common. The one thing I haven't been is honest with my husband. He doesn't know how I'm feeling or what I'm thinking. That's the next step--very scared. My kids don't see any love in our marriage. I try to put on the show for them; small kiss on the cheek..something like that but it's hard and I feel like a fake; which I know I am. I'm close with the realization that I could be alone for a long time and you know what, I'm alright with that. I chose this road it didn't choose me. I really just want to feel something again and feel whole again. I've lost parts of me and I'm ready to find them again. Thank you Ataloss for your words. I'd love to hear more from you.


Oceancity...I admire you for faking it for the sake of your kids, must not be easy, but better than them witnessing "nothingness." As far as being honest with your husband, that is the first thing that needs to happen. One of my strong points (yet sometimes comes back to haunt me) is I've always been able to be completely honest with people, sometimes too honest. My husband and I have been "on the outs" for over a year now. It has been a long process that I feel I'm already going through the stages of grieving the marriage. I'd like to keep in touch for sure. I'm not sure if there's a personal message option on this site or not, but originally, I was going to go that route to talk to you. 

Oceancity and goincrazy, something I didn't mention was an interest I have as well in someone. I didn't point it out because it really isn't the reason my husband and I are having problems, we had them before...for many years now. Before I go into it, I must say that the past year has really helped me to truly see what was going on. So, I joined FB and of course, you know...you look up old friends, flames, etc. There was this one guy I went out with off and on through college, he was an alumni so I didn't see him much and we never got serious but I can say that I've NEVER felt like this about anyone in my life. So, I have to admit that I wondered about what happened to him over the years, checked out my alumni magazine to see if he got married, etc. I just figured he was only a memory. When I saw him on FB, I deliberately didn't ask him to be my friend. Sure enough within a couple of weeks, he found me. I have talked to him via e-mail and FB off and on over the year and have been through a roller coaster of emotions. I've even admitted this to my husband (remember, I'm painfully honest). What I've figured out is that no, I don't want to walk away from my marriage because of him (not even sure we'll ever see each other). But, the rush of feelings I had come over me sort of became the catalyst to make me realize that I needed to do something about my marriage...there is nothing left and I long to have desire again. It's like I've awoken from a dream. My life has went like a whirlwind over the past years that I can't even catch my breath with work, kids, life in general. I really lost big parts of myself and I'm getting them back AND I'm realizing that now that this is not where I want to be. Life is too short. I want my husband and I to both be happy, especially if that means finding love again. But back to this guy, he's not the reason for the problems, but boy when he made contact with me, I yelled out to God, why him???? of all people.... I knew I was vulnerable but I must add that I haven't had an affair, only a friendship. I'm glad for this now and feel as though it was a gift from God to help me view my relationship with clarity and see clearly what I need to do for the best for my husband, myself, and even for my kids (since they're unsettled with our disconnected relationship). Anyway, that's more to my story. Thanks for listening. :slap:


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## bestplayer

Oceancity said:


> I have been married for 11 years and have two kids. I knew it wasn't right when we married but I loved enough about him to walk down the isle. He's a good man and a great dad. I don't want to feel this way and have tried to push away these feelings; and have for short periods of time; but the "flight" feeling always seems to come back. Is that normal? My family lives here and I have that support but his family live out of town and he would have no support here. That worries me if I were to leave. I feel that I just want some time on my own to see if there is something there to salvage. Is that wrong to ask for? We have fun and are closer as friend (in my opinion) then anything else. Intimacy with him is challenging--I don't enjoy it and it feels like a chore. I've searched my sole and don't find that I'm in love with him. We're very different and been through counciling several times. I'm ready to get out and want to see what others think. Thank you!!


well I really dont think its wrong what u ask for 
as u said u would rather be alone than with him , i think u just need to be honest & tell him u are not in love with him & u think in future u can feel the true love for someone else except him . he might be able accept the truth & let u go so that u can find ur true love & in future pls dont marry someone when u feel its not right , because after 11 yrs of ur marriage there has to be an attachement that might have devloped at least on ur husband's part which will make it hard for him.

Best of luck


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## Oceancity

UPDATE: I've done it. I just told my husband I want to separate. Believe it or not he wanted to talk via e-mail. I asked him to come home but he said "I want to talk via e-mail, I can think clearly and maybe we'll communicate better". He took it fine (I guess, since I couldn't see his face) and stated he would make me an appt with a counselor to spill my guts and then we would talk together. Like I said he's a good man and a great dad--He did ask, Why? I told him "I'm not happy anymore the way I think I should be happy. I love you but not in the way a wife should love her husband. I've tried to find it and can't." That was taken from the e-mail I sent. In a weird way I feel a HUGE weight has just been lifted. What happens next?


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## Ataloss

Oceancity,

WOW! I'm happy for you that you have gotten through the first step...being honest with him. That is a huge step for both of you. From my experience, I can tell you that since I've been open about it and completely honest, in a certain light, we've gotten along better...communication lines have opened. We still both know what most likely has to happen but at least there's less tension in the house now.

You mentioned him talking through e-mail...do you mean still living together, just getting it out electronically? Or do you mean hes e-mailing from afar...will/has moved out? If it's the way you're communicating at home, I thought it would interest you to know that my husband and I sometimes chat from different rooms and have even from across the room as silly as this sounds. Aside from the fact that we can get more out this way, we also prevent our kids from hearing a conversation, or at least as much as possible.

Anyway, keep me posted. I'm very happy for you (once again). Way to go on being honest and up front. It does feel great, doesn't it? :smthumbup:

Ataloss


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## voivod

lastinline said:


> You said he is a good father and a good man, but that's not enough for you. You no longer want the union you pledged yourself to, and you're willing to dishonor the lives of your husband and two children simply because he doesn't get you all hot and bothered anymore. Shameful.
> 
> I will share a bit of unwanted advice that I recently shared with my wife. She doesn't deserve me, and you don't deserve him. At some point every relationship comes down to being work. You will appreciate the giving relationship you've developed if God forbid one day you should ever become injured or ill.
> 
> Oceancity, the tingles always go away and the butterflies always die off. However my dear, somewhere along the way I think you've mistaken love for chemical infatuation. Love is commitment. Love is sacrifice. Love is as much about giving as it is about getting, but you don't want to be told that love is work. I suspect you just want to hear that love is fun.
> 
> Anyway, you said you wanted to know what others think...
> 
> LIL


this reply is a home run. take it to heart OP.


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## voivod

Oceancity said:


> What happens next?


either you begin taking your vows seriously or things come apart. sorta a self-fulfilling prophecy, methinks.


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## Ataloss

Voivod and LIL,

You are both right about commitment, vows, and the whole picture involving marriage; however, there has to be a connection too. If two people have no connection and they've tried to get that over many years, there just comes a time when it's time to let go... in the interest of all parties involved. It's true that kids do better seeing conflict resolved between parents but generally there is always conflict in marriage...in the best of them even. But when there's no connection, it's hard to put forth all of those things and it just can't be fabricated. I truly believe that some people stay in marriages even when they and/or their spouse are miserable and just aren't on the same page. There is definitely something to say about that and the strength that comes with that, but on the contrary, some people choose to face this issue, be excruciatingly honest about it (which isn't easy) and put happiness first and foremost. We only have one life to live and we all deserve to be happy. I guess I'm speaking from a woman's point of view. I wish you both the best in whatever your situations are despite our differences in opinions.

Ataloss


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## bestplayer

Ataloss said:


> Voivod and LIL,
> 
> You are both right about commitment, vows, and the whole picture involving marriage; however, there has to be a connection too. If two people have no connection and they've tried to get that over many years, there just comes a time when it's time to let go... in the interest of all parties involved. It's true that kids do better seeing conflict resolved between parents but generally there is always conflict in marriage...in the best of them even. But when there's no connection, it's hard to put forth all of those things and it just can't be fabricated. I truly believe that some people stay in marriages even when they and/or their spouse are miserable and just aren't on the same page. There is definitely something to say about that and the strength that comes with that, but on the contrary, some people choose to face this issue, be excruciatingly honest about it (which isn't easy) and put happiness first and foremost. We only have one life to live and we all deserve to be happy. I guess I'm speaking from a woman's point of view. I wish you both the best in whatever your situations are despite our differences in opinions.
> Ataloss


I think one has the right to do what they want with their life but the partner who leaves generally comes up with all sort reasons to justify their decison & they want to make it seem like it is in the best intrests of all but the fact is its best for him/herslf only . 
Shouldn't they honestly accept that yes I m doing it for my happiness , I dont want to work it out & I dont want to think about people who are affected . Dont u think saying anything other than this is just manipulation & double standard ?


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## Oceancity

Ataloss said:


> Voivod and LIL,
> 
> You are both right about commitment, vows, and the whole picture involving marriage; however, there has to be a connection too. If two people have no connection and they've tried to get that over many years, there just comes a time when it's time to let go... in the interest of all parties involved. It's true that kids do better seeing conflict resolved between parents but generally there is always conflict in marriage...in the best of them even. But when there's no connection, it's hard to put forth all of those things and it just can't be fabricated. I truly believe that some people stay in marriages even when they and/or their spouse are miserable and just aren't on the same page. There is definitely something to say about that and the strength that comes with that, but on the contrary, some people choose to face this issue, be excruciatingly honest about it (which isn't easy) and put happiness first and foremost. We only have one life to live and we all deserve to be happy. I guess I'm speaking from a woman's point of view. I wish you both the best in whatever your situations are despite our differences in opinions.
> 
> Ataloss


Thank you Ataloss. I could not have said it better. Believe it or not..I have tried; for 11 years tried. It was my decision to marry when my heart told me not too and I'm paying that price now; so is my husband. I VALUE marriage and the vows but have learn a hard lesson; follow my heart; not my head. I followed my head and the check list I created to qualify why I was walking down that isle--shame on me. I don't like myself for what I've done but I do now understand that he deserves something more then I'm capable of giving him--intimancy. Thank you again Ataloss--


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## Oceancity

bestplayer said:


> I think one has the right to do what they want with their life but the partner who leaves generally comes up with all sort reasons to justify their decison & they want to make it seem like it is in the best intrests of all but the fact is its best for him/herslf only .
> Shouldn't they honestly accept that yes I m doing it for my happiness , I dont want to work it out & I dont want to think about people who are affected . Dont u think saying anything other than this is just manipulation & double standard ?


My justifications for wanting a separation are valid--It's selfish to stay in a intimateless relationship for the sake of the vows. He and I both deserve more. I did tell him I wasn't happy with him and that I didn't love him the way a wife should love her husband. SUCKED says the words but you know what--a HUGE weight WAS lifted. He hasn't fixed anything and I still feel the same but thanks to Ataloss I told him.


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## Ataloss

bestplayer said:


> I think one has the right to do what they want with their life but the partner who leaves generally comes up with all sort reasons to justify their decison & they want to make it seem like it is in the best intrests of all but the fact is its best for him/herslf only .
> Shouldn't they honestly accept that yes I m doing it for my happiness , I dont want to work it out & I dont want to think about people who are affected . Dont u think saying anything other than this is just manipulation & double standard ?


Bestplayer,

You may be right about coming up with reasons and justification, what have you. But, bottom line is that's not ALWAYS the case. Sometimes it is in the best interest of both spouses. My husband has been telling me off and on for years that he's unhappy because of my lack of interest in intimacy. I truly have tried for years to figure out a way that we could get on the same page and that I could love him the way he deserves and he's held out for a long time. Perhaps some people can fabricate their feelings because they're desperate to stay in denial for various reasons. I couldn't do that, I just don't work that way...I'm a very honest person, sometimes too honest. But I believe that being honest is the only way to face this and be true to both of us. My kids suffer because not only can you "slice" through the tension in the room when we're together, but also, my husband though a good father, tends to have a short fuse with the kids...very quick to yell at them. He's not abusive, but his yelling comes too quickly, he doesn't give the kids a chance to "right" their wrongs without losing his temper. My point there is two-fold: He's unhappy about us, which affects his mood drastically AND his yelling has taken an already troubled relationship with me and has made it even worse. When these problems have begun to affect people other than us, such as our kids, it's just time to call it quits. And THAT is what I mean by we're all better off.

Oceancity,

I can say that telling my husband helped me and it has obviously already helped you by you feeling better already. Beyond that, I guess we'll see...for both of our situations. I'm glad there's someone who totally understands where I'm coming from.


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## bestplayer

Oceancity said:


> My justifications for wanting a separation are valid--It's selfish to stay in a intimateless relationship for the sake of the vows. He and I both deserve more. I did tell him I wasn't happy with him and that I didn't love him the way a wife should love her husband. SUCKED says the words but you know what--a HUGE weight WAS lifted. He hasn't fixed anything and I still feel the same but thanks to Ataloss I told him.


I do think that ur reasons for sepration are valid & it isn't right to stay if there is no intimacy .
Actually I have seen in situations like this the partner who isn't in love with the other partner leaves without any pain but the other partner who is still in love has to experience all the pain . even if the justifications to seprate are valid . 

just my opinion .


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## trinidadmauby

I have been following the conversation in this post. I am a woman and I have thus far agree with the women. So to be fair it would be nice to see a post from a guy who also agree with the women or i might be tempted to believe it is all in our gals head. 
Now, I entered a relationship with someone I did not like. Meaning he was not my "type". I was a teen and being rebellious. I knowingly entered that relationship. Turns out after I got over my rebellion and wanted out the guy did not want out. Strange I thought. I choose him because he was the "type" to have sex and run. Turns out he did not want to leave. No matter how hard I tried. As said by all HE was a good guy. None of the things u had an excuse for. No physical abuse, caring, and always saying how beautiful i was etc. i said i love u automatically and we would have been good friends. So i stayed, had a kid (Love of my life). Each year I stayed because no matter what i was not a quitter. And then we had a child together. 10 years later others were praising us for making it for ten years. congratulations!!!. haha. when i was home he went out. when he was home i went out. I slept in my son's room and explained to my son that i fell asleep while reading him a story if he woke up before i did. He came home after i fell asleep. we went to family gatherings and we stayed at opposite ends of the room. Smiling all the time. Intimacy? I knew how to turn him on so he came quickly. very quickly. then i would get up and go to the bathroom and wash off. Somedays it was enough for him. others days he would compare me to a prostitute who does her job and leaves. Everyone thought we were happy. We knew better. Still he would not let me go. He loved me he said. He could have any woman he wanted out there and he chose to be with me. He does not want to start over with someone else now. It is scary. I then i realise y he kept me. i was the only one who made him feel secure. did not know i was doing it. but when i am not rebellious i can be a good person. the ones u admire from a far and u say wow she is always helping others. he never wanted to let me go. and i did not blame him. but i had to leave. it was not a nice adjustment for him. and i left him with everything. i took nothing. I am glad i did. I have no horror stories. which is what i thought i needed to leave. but i knew that i never loved him. and as much as i have gotten to know him in the ten years he was MY MISTAKE. I should have been strong to say no but i did not and paid the price. There was nothing there to rekindle.


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## nice777guy

Love is a verb - not a noun. It isn't a feeling of butterflies - its what you do for each other.

And marriage is work. Any relationship worth having is going to take some effort.

The problems you are having with your current husband will likely be repeated with anyone else in your future unless you take a strong look at yourself and make some real changes.

Enjoy the temporary buzz.


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## Ataloss

nice777guy said:


> Love is a verb - not a noun. It isn't a feeling of butterflies - its what you do for each other.
> 
> And marriage is work. Any relationship worth having is going to take some effort.
> 
> The problems you are having with your current husband will likely be repeated with anyone else in your future unless you take a strong look at yourself and make some real changes.
> 
> Enjoy the temporary buzz.


Niceguy,

You are right...to an extent. I do believe that love is a verb and that love takes work, but prior to the work, it has to be right. There are some of us out here (such as Oceancity and me) that do have reasons beyond just not wanting to make it work and show kindness and love, etc. We may or may not have tried this approach (I did), but regardless, if we've come to the conclusion that there is NO compatibility within the relationship, it's not as simple as it sounds to "work on the relationship/MAKE it work, etc." Shame on both of us (OC and me) for not having enough insight to recognize this early in the relationship, but we shouldn't be "punished" for the rest of our lives because we made a mistake in marrying our spouses. My husband is not happy with me (due to my "insufficient" feelings for him, and believe me, I've tried to have those feelings but those feelings can't be fabricated, I've tried for a decade, trust me)...I'm not happy with him...we've decided to go our separate ways BUT give full effort in being a team to raise our kids. We WILL make this work out and the process is amicable thus far and hopefully will stay that way. It needs to stay that way for the sake of our kids and for us as well. 

As far as making changes within ourselves (OC and me), I personally, realize this and plan to do this. I will not end up with the wrong person again and I'd rather be alone than end up going down that path again. Oh, and in my opinion, this temporary buzz that OC speaks of is most likely a sense of relief. I know the feeling, for example, since my husband and I have come to the conclusion that we're splitting up, we're getting along great...not because feelings have changed, but because we're relieved that we're strong enough to take hold of this change even though it's excruciatingly hard. Life is too short to be miserable. If the relationship starts strong, there's no excuse to not work for it, but if it's not meant to be, there's not a whole lot that can be done aside from faking your way through life just to go through the motions.

ataloss


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## nice777guy

Just to clarify - when I mentioned the temporary buzz, I was talking about those butterflies that come with starting a new relationship.

One of the things that bothers me is it sounds like you are both moving on - at least in part - to having felt the buzz with someone new.

If what you say is true - really true - that you've tried, it just isn't there and maybe never was - then you really shouldn't care much what "we" think. Keep in mind so many here have been burned by people doing what you are doing.

So - if you are really, truly at peace with it - good luck. I truly hope it brings better things for you and your family.


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## Ataloss

Niceguy,

Thanks for the response. I apologize for misunderstanding the "buzz" comment. I guess I figured somewhere in the thread it was mentioned. You are right about the whole idea of butterflies. There are people out there that are literally addicted to this feeling...it's due to a high caused from dopamine (the pleasure neurotransmitter) release within the brain. So there is physiological reasoning behind it. We all do love this though, you can't deny that. But as long as people go into something realizing that this feeling will go away, they're more prepared for reality. However, I do think these butterfly feelings are somewhat of a necessity in the beginning. It draws people together, which helps them to get to know each other better, fall in "real" love, and so on and so forth. Well, in my case, I never had those feelings...EVER. Reality hit quickly with my husband and I and I thought that was a good thing, and it was, but I'm discovering that this feeling was more of a comfort thing. I've really analyzed the past based on what the outcome of my marriage is. I've been thinking almost non-stop for going on 2 years. I truly think I've figured this out. Now does that mean that we couldn't have made it work? Possibly, but not for sure. But we just got to a place and weighed all things, good and bad, and though we both have setbacks, we keep coming to the same conclusion that it's the RIGHT thing to do. And I must add that though I'd love to fall in love someday, if it doesn't happen for me, it is what it is. I'm not seeking the "buzz," not saying that I wouldn't enjoy that, but will not seek it out...it's only temporary and only when it continues on, does real love develop. Sorry for rambling. 

I'm sorry to know that you've been burned by somewhat of a similar situation. I don't know the details, but I realize that it must be hard being on the other side of things. I understand your frustration from hearing "this" side of the story. Though I think you're realizing that it does differ from situation to situation. Take care and hang in there. I hope it all works out for you as well.

ataloss


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## sisters359

I don't think a lot of men get it, frankly. Many of us women committed to "nice guys" to whom we weren't physically attracted--not repelled, but not attracted. We could be responsive, but never passionate, never initiating--no desire for our guy. 

I would say, that is enough reason to leave--it would be more fair to both of you to find someone to whom you are passionately attracted, and to accept life alone if you can't. Otherwise, you are at great risk for an affair, especially after many years of doing without passion and intimacy in your life.

The problem is that some of these guys are very passive-aggressive (and not as nice as we thought; they hid that side until we are "hooked") and needy and don't really care how WE feel as long as we stick around. 

Yeah, our mistake--but some of us choose not to pay for it for the rest of our lives.


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## semperfi

Wow, I am so glad to have found this thread!

My wife and I were married nearly 19 years ago. Last weekend, she told me that she wasn't in love with me, and probably never had been. She's not attracted to me and is tired of "living a lie," as she put it, by having to pretend to be a devoted, loving wife.

I feel like a cartoon character, innocently walking down the street until BAM! the safe falls on his head.

I always thought we had a loving and close relationship: plenty of incidental physical affection (hugs, kisses in passing, etc.), good communications, and so on. Neither of us drink or use drugs; neither are porn addicts, gamblers, etc. Just basic, normal, mentally and physically healthy people. I have been completely faithful to her. By her own admission, I'm a great father to our sons and an excellent provider. She just doesn't feel "that way" about me. 

(Imagine that I inserted a long rant here about the unrealistic portrayal of romance in the chick flicks and chick-lit books that she loves so much... OK, done with that.)

Her take on it seems to be that we rushed into marriage after two years of dating because I was deployed to Gulf War I... even though we didn't actually marry until six months after I got back. Ever since then, she's been trying to rekindle something that she may never have felt.

I don't know what's going to happen. Like oceancity, my wife clearly had a great feeling of relief from getting this off her chest. I'm not so relieved, unfortunately. I flip-flop between feeling sad and being ANGRY! HULK SMASH! Like Jimmy McNulty in _The Wire_, I wonder "WTF did _I_ do?" 

For now we're taking it day by day. It kills me that I don't get so much as a kiss hello when I come home from work, never mind any actual, y'know, S-E-X. She keeps telling me how hard this is for her as she tries to choose between making herself unhappy and damaging everyone around her.

We have our first counseling appointment next week. Maybe that will help, but somehow I'm not optimistic.

Whew. That's a load off.


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## bunnytails

Oceancity, I have been searching for threads and forums to help me understand why and how people stay in marriages with spouses they were never in love with. I was also trying to decide whether I made the right decision in my life to always follow my heart fist. Of course I've always thought you still need to use your head. 

In my experience the consequence for me in following my heart is that I waited so many years bent on not settling, that I didn't get to have the husband and children with the picket fence that I took for granted would happen for me as it did for so many others. 

On the other hand I always felt that if I didn't have that special feeling for my spouse, what people call being in love, it could never work forever. At some point it would end, I wouldn't dare put my children in the position of losing a father figure in the home knowing this about myself, so I never even considered having children with someone I wasn't in love with. 

I lived my life completely single with a few boyfriends here and there. These relationships fizzled out after 6 months or so and I started feeling like I would never feel that special feeling for anyone and felt hopeless and that maybe I to should think of settling. 

I was 34 going on 35 and met my soulmate. I felt that special feeling. This feeling of oneness. The feeling of this IS the one. I had waited many years before meeting him and had never felt this way. In my view he was worth the wait, I fell in love with him and loved him all at the same time. It's the most right feeling you can have without doubt. zero doubt! 

My dad still slaps my mom on the butt as she walks by, he's 75.
They still laugh together and my parents were in love and loved each other when they married. Both those feelings were important in sustaining the marriage through thick and thin for better or worst and in sickness and health! I just couldn't settle for less, I had the proof that you need both feelings to make it work forever.

As for my soulmate? This is the reason I am searching forums for some clarity. When we met 11 years ago the chemistry was undeniable for both of us. We met through work and after 3 months of flirting with each other I wondered why he wouldn't ask me out. He called me one day and told me how he felt and I told him I felt the same way, that was a great feeling. Then he dropped the bomb. He was married with two young children the youngest being 4 yrs old. My heart sank into my gut. 
I apologized profusely for flirting with him but I had no idea he was married. He has always maintained that his wife was not in love with him and that if it weren't for the kids they would not be together. He convinced me that I was his soulmate and that one day we would be together. 

The truth is he loves his wife but is not in love with her and the same feelings are true for his wife.

I knew that when I found out he was married I would probably end up broken hearted I also knew that it was just plain wrong. For many reasons he convinced me that it was o.k. to be with him and that we would see where it would take us always convincing me we would be together one day.

He has never had a reason to leave his marriage. I have been in his life for half of his married life. The youngest child is graduating high school next year. He was only 4 when we met. He was able to stay married to a sister like wife who is the mother of his children and live under the same roof in part because he always had me to fill in for everything that was missing in his marriage.

I left him so that I can live an honest life. Before you post hate messages for dating a married man . In defense I admit It was wrong of me to be with him because he was married. Period! was I gullible, Yes. does he love me? Yes. Is being in love enough? I guess it's a question of choice. 

He lives a great life even if it is fake in some ways. They have a big beautiful home on the water, lots of cars and toy's and the kids are very happy. His wife and he have gotten along very well. She does whatever she wants and he does the same, they seem to be o.k. with not being in love. Why would he leave? 

I finally made things right for both of us. If he needs to be married to her and judges that there is too much to lose if he leaves, then I get that. His children mean everything to him. He needs to live under the same roof and come home to them. He's scared of divorce and what that would mean for his family and himself. Regardless of a lack of romantic love for each other. I think some people will stay just because there's too much to lose.
I'd be a moron if I didn't get that

So here I am at 45, alone, unmarried but a lot smarter.
Although he and his wife have chosen comfort and security over being in love, and after reading this thread. Oceancity, I'm going to keep listening to my heart. I've decided that it's still the only way to go for me. I wouldn't trade being in love for security for anything and am more convinced than ever that it is the right thing for a healthy and happy relationship, for me.


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## bestplayer

sisters359 said:


> I don't think a lot of men get it, frankly. Many of us women committed to "nice guys" to whom we weren't physically attracted--not repelled, but not attracted. We could be responsive, but never passionate, never initiating--no desire for our guy.
> 
> I would say, that is enough reason to leave--it would be more fair to both of you to find someone to whom you are passionately attracted, and to accept life alone if you can't. Otherwise, you are at great risk for an affair, especially after many years of doing without passion and intimacy in your life.
> 
> The problem is that some of these guys are very passive-aggressive (and not as nice as we thought; they hid that side until we are "hooked") and needy and don't really care how WE feel as long as we stick around.
> 
> Yeah, our mistake--but some of us choose not to pay for it for the rest of our lives.


and that's why choose to let your spouse pay for it for the rest of his life. right ?


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## TeaLeaves4

bestplayer said:


> and that's why choose to let your spouse pay for it for the rest of his life. right ?



Well, it takes two to make a marriage work. These people didn't get to this place in their lives by themselves.


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## bestplayer

TeaLeaves4 said:


> Well, it takes two to make a marriage work. These people didn't get to this place in their lives by themselves.


well if you had been following this thread you would know , it is about some of these women just feel nothing for their partners , but perhaps unfortunately their spouses do feel a lot , so their partners will be paying the price by getting dumped .


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