# where to go from here?



## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

We have been separated for 2 months now (after almost 12 years of marriage). I decided i could no longer live with him after years and years of emotional, and from time to time, physical abuse. 

I am really worried about custody, if i decide to leave for good. I wanted to believe he could change, but hes proven throughtout this separation that it is very unlikely. I worry about custody because he is "charming", intellegent, etc. Could he fool a judge??? I know the kids belong with me, although i would never try to keep them away from him entirely, but he is manipulative and everyone likes him. Will a judge see through his crap? 

The kids being with him often is not healthy, he is not a good example, likes to drink a lot, but for some reason he believes he will get "equal time" with them, if i were to file. 

Any advice or similar stories???


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

do you have any documentation of any abuse? if you want to limit his time or have it supervised, you will need it.

Keep in mind, abusive men use the kids/custody as a way to control you. So if he can stress you out telling you he wants equal or more time, then he will. it's a button to push. For instance, a lot of abusive men keep their wives under their thumb by telling them that the wives won't get any custody, or that he'll fight for custody tooth and nail. Probably he won't, abusers are too selfish to do a good job as a custodial parent. But it gets her to stay. Unless your husband has extended the abuse to the kids, i would just keep your cool, and start recording or take screenshots when he's like this. Document, document, document.

And expose. Tell your family, if they don't already know.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Thank you. I finally told my family when we separated, i had to, and it was the best thing i ever did. I was alone, with no support for so long..... 

He is very selfish, has always loved playing with them (when he was in the mood) but didn't do any of the real work that comes along with parenting. I can't imagine why he would suddenly want to do the work?? 

He has threatened me, numerous times, with the fact that his family can "afford good lawyers" and that i wouldn't have money to pay for one. He's pretty much right. I know they are just "scare tactics" but i can't help but think, "what if"....

I don't have real "proof" of his abuse. I have started journaling and recording incidents. But i guess i can't actually prove them. I started taking some screenshots, but he seems to be real careful with what hes saying through text. He did destroy my cell phone, so i had to get another through insurance, but i don't have a way of showing he did it. It was after i said i was going to "call the cops". He destroyed it, then held my oldest son in his arms and wouldn't let me leave for the night. The only way i could have left would have been without my son, and he knew i wouldn't do that.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

I'm not trying to make him have suprivised visits, just think its in the kids best interest to be with me majority of the time.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

i'm not saying to get supervised visits, or actually limit his time, as long as his abuse has always been about you, not the kids. As long as the kids want to go, and you feel confident in their safety it should be ok. Its really difficult to get any limits put on abusers anyway, they'll get a few supervised visits and as long as they can fake nice for other people, then it get's dropped.

But it's something for you to hold hostage, so that you can take your control back. If you have proof that you can limit his time and he knows it, then he will stop trying to push his custody BS.

If he didn't do the work when they were small, they he won't want to do the work now. He'll try to pawn his custody time off. not show up, drop them off at his parents etc. This is all about you. This is about controlling you and holding you hostage using the kids, just like he did before. Holding your son, so you wouldn't go. Now he's threatening taking the kids because he knows you don't want him to.

There are apps for your phone to record calls, or if he's doing it in person you can use a recorder or your phone in your pocket. Back it up regularly.

If you can get him on tape saying that he wants custody and his family will get him an expensive lawyer, then i would expose that evidence to his parents. 

There are a lot of good resources out there:
http://www.lundybancroft.com/child-custody-justice
^also, any of lundy bancroft's books are great
http://www.ncjfcj.org/resource-library/publications/managing-your-divorce-guide-battered-women


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

how many kids do you have? how old?


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

We have 2 kids...thr youngest just turned 3, and the oldest is 5, going on 6. 

The poor oldest has seen too much and i don't ever want him to see anymore. 

They idealize him, and sometimes my 5 year "blames" me for our current situation. Although when we separated i asked my husband to ecplain to him that "daddy has not treating mommy nicely, and that he and mommy were going to have a time-out". 

He seemed to understand, but my husband is acting like some kind of "disneyland daddy" when he comes around. It makes me sick, all the effort i have put in to helping them learn to eat good, sleep in their beds, have manners, always get playtime outside, etc. And now he is buying them donuts and toys every chance he gets, when we both show up at the bus stop he brings cheetos. I was so sad the other day when my son ran straight past me to him. I would never go down to this level, i am going to do whats best for the kids wether it makes them "like me" or not. I just hate that my son is starting to believe that i wanted this broken family. 

As for the recordings and stuff, most of the worst comments were being said while we were still living together, in person. Now we aren't seeing eachother very much so his opportunities are limited. Typically it happens at work when (we are teachers at the same school) and we run into eachother in the hallway, or he just shows up at my door. Typically i don't have my phone on me, because i am just going about my normal day, and if i did, probably couldn't start recording without him noticing. 

Will the judge not take "my stories" to mean anything? I'm getting more and more worried, because i really don't have "proof".


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

You could carry a voice activated recorder, it would turn on by itself. The key is, to document. You want as many things that tell the truth as possible so that he can't just gaslight judges or authorities, especially if he is able to charm/lie his way out of trouble. To some extent you want to stay off his radar and have him get bored with messing with you. But if you feel he is becoming dangerous, then that is the time to start calling the cops, reporting him to work authorities, making sure that there are consequences for his behavior. It may be time to start looking for other employment. If he's seeing you all the time, then it will be harder to have him let go. You need to gain some distance. The closer he can keep you, the more control he has over you.

as far as court, it might be advisable to contact your local battered women's shelter, or hotline. I'm sure they will have some good legal advice. Generally you need proof of abuse. letters, emails, screenshots, hospital records, audio or video etc. otherwise it becomes a he said she said. 

you might want to disassociate and draw it out, try to stay out of court. after a certain point, you can simply file for the divorce uncontested, (in PA it's 2 years). Many women have found that he just loses interest eventually as long as there's not drama to feed on. Some move in with family or get a roommate so that he's unable hide the obsessive control, stalking, invading your privacy bit. Some take a job far away, and then he's worn down by all the travel. As for the kids, the bribes may work now, but kids will see through that eventually. You might want to invest in some counseling, at least for your oldest.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

My phone is about to die, so i will have to just do a quick reply for now.... 

First off, thank you very much for all the information and the thoughtful response. 

It feels so complicated because of the kids, and the fact that we work together. I could and probably should get a different job next school year, but I am pretty much stuck working at the same school with him until June. 

Also, i would never "move away" because I still want the kids to see their dad, just don't want him trying to take them from me. But i would move to a nearby town, maybe 20 minutes from him. 

I guess what i am really at a loss for, is my "short term plan", i feel like the long term is pretty obvious, i can'tever go back to living that way, and he has convinced me, more than once, that he can't or won't change. 

I am ready to move out of this situation we are in (alternating with the house) i honestly don't want to stay there, but i don't want to help pay rent for him either.... should i ask him for us both to move out. Just move out and hope he'll be able to pay the rent on his own?? Neither of us can afford the rent on our own, and i have no desire to be there.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Any advice on trying to get us living completely separately, don't want to continue this house sharing any longer. I thought it was working pretty well in the beginning. And it is ok, but it is starting to make me feel depressed to go there. I don't want to be there at all, it is a constant reminder of the family i wanted us to be. We are renting and its pretty expensive, so neither of us would want to really be responsible for it alone. 

Not sure what to tell him, or what to do. I know he will not be ok with us "moving out". 

After he just showed up unannounced the other day (we happen to be outside playing) it makes me not want to take them outside thinking he may drive by, or show up. I shouldn't have to feel that way. He stays with his family that is only a couple minutes away when he is out of the house.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> After he just showed up unannounced the other day (we happen to be outside playing) it makes me not want to take them outside thinking he may drive by, or show up. I shouldn't have to feel that way. He stays with his family that is only a couple minutes away when he is out of the house.


If you don't have a custody/access order in place, he has defacto 50/50 custody of the kids until you have an order that says something else. That is the law. You do not own the children and have zero right not to allow equal access to the children.

Your opinion on his fathering methodology is just that...your opinion...if you want to show that he's unfit for fair and equal access, you're going to have to prove it showing evidence.

If you have police records showing abusive behavior, you need to gather those and get to an attorney.



> Not sure what to tell him, or what to do. I know he will not be ok with us "moving out".


You can move out all you want but you have ZERO right to remove the children from their place of residence. If you do that, he'll have an excellent case to take you to court and have the children returned...it also will not put you in a favorable position going forward in litigation. I highly recommend that you do not remove the children without a court order. You have no right to do so. 



> Will the judge not take "my stories" to mean anything? I'm getting more and more worried, because i really don't have "proof".


Court works on evidence...not hearsay. So no, your stories won't mean much and may end up souring the court against you. You need evidence...that's what the courts go by. In fact, from my own experience, I can tell you that they probably aren't even going to listen to much. If it isn't documented and you didn't file charges against him for DV, these allegations are going to sound like the bitter rantings of a woman trying to keep kids away from their father. I'm just giving you the straight facts. 

You need to see a lawyer so that the lawyer can clearly explain to you where you stand. 

In my opinion, you need to recognize that you don't get to decide the custody situation unless you and your ex come to an amicable agreement. If it goes before a judge...based on what you've said here...its likely that you're going to have a fairly equitable custody arrangement with your ex and you're going to have to figure out how to co-parent.



> He seemed to understand, but my husband is acting like some kind of "disneyland daddy" when he comes around. It makes me sick, all the effort i have put in to helping them learn to eat good, sleep in their beds, have manners, always get playtime outside, etc. And now he is buying them donuts and toys every chance he gets, when we both show up at the bus stop he brings cheetos. I was so sad the other day when my son ran straight past me to him. I would never go down to this level, i am going to do whats best for the kids wether it makes them "like me" or not


You can't control how the ex parents the kids on his parenting time. All parents have different styles. One thing you're going to have to learn how to do is worry about what you're doing and not what he's doing. He has the right to parent however he sees fit....you don't have the right to interfere with that. The sooner you realize and accept that, the easier time you'll have.



> I'm not trying to make him have suprivised visits, just think its in the kids best interest to be with me majority of the time.


Unfortunately, you have to prove why that is. And unless you have some pretty compelling evidence (not talking...evidence)...its unlikely that your opinion is going to count for much. 



> You might want to invest in some counseling, at least for your oldest.


I don't know how custody works in the OP's state but you cannot take a child to a doctor of any kind without the other parents permission without a sole custody order. If you do, especially a therapist, be prepared for a very strong reaction from a judge because it looks like you're trying to skew a custody result. 

Look, bottom line, you don't own the kids because you're female and their mother. The kids belong to both parents and both parents have parental rights. You might not like your ex...you might not like the way he parents....so what? He'd probably say similar things about you being controlling, etc. You clearly don't agree on methodology....it doesn't mean either one of you are wrong. Its means you are different.

And whatever your relationship with him was doesn't mean it has anything to do with the children. And if he was violent and you didn't protect your kids that you thought were in danger by filing a police report...those allegations are going to come off badly if you try to use them against him because neither one of you did the right thing.

The fact is that children have a right to have a relationship with BOTH parents. It isn't about you....its about what's best for their long-term mental and emotional health...and that means...two parents.

I think you need to readjust your mindset because its very unlikely you're going to get what you want.

By the way, if he's been to a lawyer, he's going to start documenting things...especially anytime you deny him fair parenting time. I'd be extra careful about making sure that you're allowing fair access time.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

I am really confused about where you got the idea that i have kept him from parenting the boys. Our current situation is that he has the boys sunday through tuesday, and i have them wednesday through saturday. That is about as equal as it gets??? How am i denying him his parental rights or keeping them from seeing him? Yes, i was afraid when he "showed up" at the house, but per the agreement between he and I, it was my night, not his. I have never just shown up on his night. Certaintly didn't show up and act intimidating. 

I understand we have different parenting strategies and neither of us is "right", what bothers me is the fact that i see the same manipulation he uses on me, coming out between him and the kids. 

You act as though i have no right to anything, but he has been abusive towards me for years. I'm sure i'm not the only abused woman that didn't file a police report because they were afraid of the retalition that may come afterwards. 

When he destroyed my phone and trapped me in the house, i wanted to file a police report, but had to go back to work the next day, with him. He has already begun harassing me at work.... so my words mean nothing because i wasn't brave enough to file a police report??? He admitted to more than one person about destroying my phone, does that not count for anything? He shoved me down the school hallway from behind, when i was clearly trying to get away (most likely caught on camera - since we were on campus), does none of this matter because i don't have pics of blavk eyes?

So what do i do at this point? I don't have evidence, so i act as though the last years of hell don't matter?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Brit16 said:


> So what do i do at this point? I don't have evidence, so i act as though the last years of hell don't matter?


Brit, as I discussed with you two years ago, the behaviors you describe include many of the classic warning signs for a person having strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I therefore suggest you read the book, _*Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder*._ 

For good online articles, I recommend three BPDfamily articles: Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD (Article 9), Leaving a Partner with BPD (Article 10), and High Risk Parenting. While you are at the BPDfamily forum, I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at the *"Leaving"* board and the *"Parenting after the Split"* board. But please don't forget those of us here at TAM. We want to keep supporting you as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Take care, Brit.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> You act as though i have no right to anything, but he has been abusive towards me for years. I'm sure i'm not the only abused woman that didn't file a police report because they were afraid of the retalition that may come afterwards.


You have every right and should get away from him. Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily follow that you have the right to take the children too. You need to get a court order for that.

Again, my advice is to see a lawyer so that they can advise you about what evidence you need to gather.

Understand that there are a lot of women that lie about abuse situations during divorce/custody disputes to gain an advantage. I'm not at all suggesting you're doing that...but those women that do sour judges to the real abused women. So if you don't have evidence, its going to be a lot more difficult for you to use it as an reason for an inequitable custody advantage.

You have to separate you getting out of the relationship with him with how things are going to work with the children. Its two separate issues. 

A lot of lawyers have free consults for your first visit. It would help you get some information.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Brit16 said:


> We have been separated for 2 months now (after almost 12 years of marriage). I decided i could no longer live with him after years and years of emotional, and from time to time, physical abuse.
> 
> I am really worried about custody, if i decide to leave for good. I wanted to believe he could change, but hes proven throughtout this separation that it is very unlikely. I worry about custody because he is "charming", intellegent, etc. Could he fool a judge??? I know the kids belong with me, although i would never try to keep them away from him entirely, but he is manipulative and everyone likes him. Will a judge see through his crap?
> 
> ...


I don't have first hand with abusive relationships but I have been divorced. I think that you should* put all of your energy into getting full custody*. I haven't read your other threads but if it is all possible, you should do this. Based on what you wrote, your exH seems to be an undesirable person, unfit for parenting. 

I've seen a situation like this recently in my entourage. The wife can't leave otherwise she'll lose the children. Her H puts on a great front for the public, but behind the scenes he is emotionally abusive. I actually have two acquaintances in this situation.

I hope you have family or friends you can depend on. And a good lawyer.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Uptown - thank you very much. You're right, two years ago i was here seeking help, but i guess i wasn't really open to the fact that things couldn't / wouldn't change. Now I am here in a totally different mindset and situation. I have realized that he isn't going to change, and we are separated (never would have thought 2 years ago that i would tell my family and actually get out of living under the same roof). I have been convinced for a few years now that he likely has a personality disorder, but i always thought his issues were most similar to paranoid personality disorder. 

I recently spoke with Dr. Harley (his needs her needs), he has also spoke with my husband, and he believes he could have brain damage. Something from getting a concussion as a kid. Husband says "no", but either way, i don't think he can change. 

I was so hopeful first couple weeks of the separation, then things began happening again. 

I understand that the "leaving" is different from the "childcare" but one reason I have been afraid to leave is because he threatens me with fancy lawyers and taking the kids from me. Joint custody is one thing.... he has threatened to take them from me, and can be very manipulative. 

I'm sure it is just a scare tactic, i know that he thinks they need both of us, but I do not know what he would be capable of if i were to leave (divorce, instead of just separate).


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

I don't have any friends, he's pretty much made that impossible. But i do have great family, that are very supportive of me. No lawyer, and don't know how i would afford one?! 

As for the bitter wives claiming abuse, I assumed the judges could pick out the liars from the truly abused women, is that not true? I have incident after incident documented. 

I am really regretting bot filing a police report after he destroyed my phone and wouldn't let me leave that night. I did get brave enough to finally leave the next day, but was too afraid of what hell i would go through if i filed a report. Could or should i still do that?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Brit16 said:


> I have been convinced for a few years now that he likely has a personality disorder, but i always thought his issues were most similar to *paranoid personality disorder*.


Likewise, I thought that the behaviors you describe sounded closest to the warning signs for PPD. That's why I discussed PPD in my first post to you on 12/14/13. As to BPD, I said in that post that you were not describing many BPD red flags. Specifically, I said:



> I therefore suspected, at the beginning of your thread, that you may be describing BPD traits. Yet, if that were true, you likely would have said something about your H exhibiting a strong fear of abandonment, rages, and splitting. But you describe none of those. Although you do describe him as being paranoid about your dressing and showering activities, you do not say anything about him being fearful you are actually going to up and leave him. And, instead of describing rages, you say he is verbally abusive but generally does so without raising his voice. As to splitting, you do not seem to describe him as an unstable man who flips back and forth between adoring you and devaluing you. If I am mistaken about this and you actually are seeing such behaviors, I would be glad to discuss BPD traits with you.


In response to that statement, however, you did describe the missing BPD warning signs. This is why my second post suggests you take a look at my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_ and -- if most sound very familiar -- also read my more detailed description of them in _*Maybe's Thread*_.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Thanks again Uptown. I was pretty suprised when i read that list. I know i can't diagnose him, but he met many (almost all) on the list you gave. 

Any suggestions on my current situation?


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

The funny thing is that he describes himself as "black and white", in fact that is often his excuse. "Things are black and white with me....." and justifies what he has done or said, and why i am always wrong. I try to explain to him that much of life falls somewhere in between, but he can't seem to think of anything but extremes.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Wow, i just read your second thread that you linked. Where you gave examples and everything. I felt like i was reading my life. Especially when you mentioned the title of that book...."I hate you, don't leave me" This is dead on!!! 

I often told him "i feel like i am going crazy living like this". Wow....


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Brit16 said:


> Any suggestions on my current situation?


Brit, I agree with the excellent advice given by *Sixty-Eight* and *EnigmaGirl*. If you still have doubts about your H having strong BPD traits, I suggest you read _Stop Walking on Eggshells._ If he does exhibit strong traits, you will get chills just reading that book because it will sound like it is a biography of his life.

I suspect, however, that you already believe his BPD traits (which we all have) are strong and persistent. This is why I pointed you to the _Splitting_ book which offers tips about how to protect yourself while divorcing a vindictive, angry BPDer. It is written by the same author (Kreger) who wrote the _Eggshells_ book.

As to trying to file a police report at this time, I suspect the police may not be willing to record it if it's been a year or two since the incident (breaking your phone). And, if they do, it may appear to a custody judge that you're only doing it so as to better position yourself for a custody fight. I don't know. Speak to an attorney about that. 

As EnigmaGirl observes, the initial consultation with an attorney likely will be free. During that meeting, ask the attorney whether he would be willing to take your case on contingency, i.e., contingent on the outcome, thus allowing you to pay him out of your subsequent settlement from your STBXH. My exW did that and part of our settlement was my agreement to pay her attorney's flat fee.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Thanks again. I will get the book.... The cwll phone incident was 2 months ago, it is what finally pushed me to separate from him. Would they still look at it that way? The difference to me is now my head is more clear since i have been out from under the same roof with him. 

How much are the typical "flat fees"??? I don't know that either one of us will be able to afford them. But i do agree that i need to get an initial consult at least.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

A question about "proving" that the abuse has taken place.... I have been texting with him off and on throughout our separation and recently started taking some screenshots. 

I had him admit via text that he had pushed me from behind in the hallway at school, but unfortunately I went back later to screenshot it and it was gone, along with probably 100 or more other text. Do samsungs automatically delete text when it starts getting full? 

Anyways, i learned my lesson and have been screenshotting as they come in, but he has been very cautious about what he is saying via text now. 

But what i am wondering is, if i mention something hes done on text, and he replies about it (doesn't say yes i did that - but talks back to me, and doesn't deny what i said) is that the same as admitting it?? I have a lot of examples like that...


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Two months seems recent enough for the police to be willing to record it. The larger issue, however, is whether it would help in the custody case. I suppose so but this is a legal matter that warrants discussion with an attorney familiar with custody treatment in your State. I suggest you see one ASAP, the sooner the better. Also, I suggest doing some research to find out who is very experienced in child custody issues.

If your STBXH is a high-functioning BPDer as you suspect, your children likely will not start triggering his two fears (abandonment and engulfment) until they reach puberty. That is when they will start thinking for themselves and being more obstinate. I mention this because it is possible that your STBXH will be a good father to them for many years.

By the time kids reach the early teens, they typically live with whichever parent they want to if one parent becomes abusive. This can be accomplished in the courts. Even if it isn't done legally, a child in the early teens can make himself so unpleasant and difficult that the offending parent won't want him around too much.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

I called today and set up an appointment with an attorney. This was a big step for me. I am worried though, because the appointment is at 3, so i will have to leave work early, I am typically at the school to see my sons on Tuesdays and give them a kiss. I have never not been there on his days, to see them that couple minutes. 

So my husband will for sure know something is up. Do i tell him what i am doing? I am not a liar at all, and am not sure how to handle this. I know that telling him i am meeting with a lawyer will "set him off" but lying doesn't seem like a good choice either. 

Also I called the law firm thinking i would be dealing with a certain attorney there. I was happy they got me in quickly for a consult, but on the confirmation i noticed it was with a different, much younger lawyer. Should i be concerned about that? Do they consult with eachother about difficult cases?

Thanks again for all the help. I confided in my teacher friend who has a class next to me. She thinks that i should talk with our AP about the situation, but i am really nervous that they might take action against him, and don't want that. Any advice? At the same time, if i don't "fill them in" I am not protecting myself from what could potentially happen.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Oh, also, her and I went to lunch together to talk about everything. When we got back he happened to be in the parking lot, and came over with a chip on his shoulder.... he even ended up being rude to our co-worker. I think she was really shocked to see that side of him. He is typically very "charming" to others. I am almost glad he did it in front of her so she could somewhat understand that what i told her was true....


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Try contacting women's out reach centers. I have seen several very good posts by elegirl on this subject. Try PMing her.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Thank you. Going to see the lawyer today, feeling so nervous about it. Hope i get some real answers out of it. 

Very nervous about how he will react when I am not at the bus stop to see my son. Don't want to lie, but i know he will be blowing up my phone trying to figure out what i am doing. 

Thanks everyone!


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Brit16 said:


> Thank you. Going to see the lawyer today, feeling so nervous about it. Hope i get some real answers out of it.
> 
> Very nervous about how he will react when I am not at the bus stop to see my son. Don't want to lie, but i know he will be blowing up my phone trying to figure out what i am doing.
> 
> Thanks everyone!


you are not obligated to tell him the whole truth. You could simply say that you had an appointment and then casually touch your hair. He would infer from that, that you were at a hair appointment. Or make something up completely. When he is acting irrationally, and you continue to treat him like a partner in marriage that deserves full disclosure, than you do yourself a disservice.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I think that you should put all of your energy into getting full custody. I haven't read your other threads but if it is all possible, you should do this. Based on what you wrote, your exH seems to be an undesirable person, unfit for parenting.


I must be reading different posts because I didn't get that at all.

Fighting for full custody is a big deal and you need a lot of evidence and a lot of money. This father is seeing his children and they obviously care about their father given that they're running to him.

Regardless of what type of husband this guy is...it doesn't necessarily mean he's a bad father. He may parent differently but he's allowed to do that. 

He's seeing his kids on schedule...he wants to be involved in their lives and the kids DESERVE to have a relationship with both parents. I completely disagree that this OP should be seeking full custody unless she's seriously worried about their safety. And while she seems worried about her own safety, it isn't clear that that extends to the children...in fact, quite the opposite.

If this OP seeks this solution, she's in for a lengthy, expensive battle and there will be consequences for her, her ex and the kids that might be very undesirable.



> As for the bitter wives claiming abuse, I assumed the judges could pick out the liars from the truly abused women, is that not true? I have incident after incident documented.


OP, documented how? Do you have police reports?

What I'm trying to say is that if you just have abuse stories, they aren't that credible in court. In addition, they certainly have to do with you but that doesn't follow that they have anything to do with what the judge is going to decide upon for custody.

If you have police reports though, that may help significantly.



> I am really regretting bot filing a police report after he destroyed my phone and wouldn't let me leave that night. I did get brave enough to finally leave the next day, but was too afraid of what hell i would go through if i filed a report. Could or should i still do that?


I'm not sure...it probably depends on when it happened. Contact your local PD and find out though.



> How much are the typical "flat fees"??? I don't know that either one of us will be able to afford them. But i do agree that i need to get an initial consult at least.


I can tell you that custody disputes are ridiculously expensive. My total divorce cost around 35-40k and much of that was our custody dispute. Just the psych assessment (which took over a year) was about 7k and that was just one child.

Trust me, I do not like my ex but if there is ANY way you can work out a reasonable solution with him about custody, you'll be doing yourself and your kids a huge favor.

The only way I'd suggest you go after full custody is that you're absolutely, 100% certain that they are in complete physical danger being around him. And again, remember you need to prove that in court.

If you just don't like his parenting style...get over it and work something out to co-parent these kids.



> A question about "proving" that the abuse has taken place.... I have been texting with him off and on throughout our separation and recently started taking some screenshots.
> 
> I had him admit via text that he had pushed me from behind in the hallway at school, but unfortunately I went back later to screenshot it and it was gone, along with probably 100 or more other text. Do samsungs automatically delete text when it starts getting full?
> 
> ...


No, this isn't evidence and frankly, if I was a judge, I'd be wondering why you're having text battles with someone who you claim is abusive.



> So my husband will for sure know something is up. Do i tell him what i am doing? I am not a liar at all, and am not sure how to handle this. I know that telling him i am meeting with a lawyer will "set him off" but lying doesn't seem like a good choice either.


No, I don't think you should tell him anything. In fact, part of this process as you move forward is going to be to stop any communication that doesn't have to do with parenting the kids. 

I agree with the poster that said if you're seriously worried about any abuse going forward, that you should be contacting a woman's shelter and asking them for step-by-step advice. They might also be able to help you with legal aide contacts because you might be eligible for that which would help a lot.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

I know you are right, thank you. I just never lie, so it would be so hard for me to make something up. I guess i got lucky because he did things out of the routine today so i just left and didn't have to tell him anything. 

The appointment went ok, but I am at a loss for how I will ever be able to afford a lawyer!! $4000 just for retainer and he said that it would likely end up being nearly $20k, if my husband makes it difficult, which is very likely.

I am now at a loss for what to do. I honestly feel just as confused, and i was hoping it would "sort" things out.

He said i am in a very dangerous situation and i need to file quickly, to get orders in place. He confirmed my fears of needing "evidence" that i don't really have.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Thanks Emma for the thoughtful reply. I feel like you may think i am exaggerating and trying to "take the kids" from him. I am not at all. He has been extremely abusive in pretty much every way possible, but you are right i don't have the proper proof, because i was always too afraid to call the police, the one time i tried to he grabbed the phone from my hand and destroyed it. 

One thing though is that he has admitted some of this stuff to others. Can they write statements or anything?? (Although most of the people he admitted to were his friends and family, not sure if i can expect them to be truthful). 

As for the kids, i am not wanting to get 100% custody, I would never want to take their daddy away from them. And no i don't believe he is putting them PHYSICALLY in danger, but i do believe (with all my heart), that his emotional instability, drinking, manipulative ways, etc are not healthy for children. If they get to, for example, go have a fun weekend with daddy, then no i don't think it would be harmful at all (it would be great). 

But if they were with him, lets say, every other week (which is what he claims he will fight to have), and he was actually doing parenting, not just "having fun", i think the kids would be picking up on his traits and i worry that they could grow up with "issues" similar to his. He always has his own best interest in mind, not the childrens. I don't even understand how he claims he wants them every other week, he has never spent that much time with them, ever!!! I spend every second after work and every weekend woth them. He rarely has time because his job is priority way higher than our marriage or the kids. Sure he loves to play with them, when its convenient, but has never done any of the work, even when i asked for help. 

Also, he is in between seasons right now, so he seems to be enjoying having time with them, as soon as baseball starts that will be priority number 1again and he wouldn't even be there to spend time with him wether he wants to or not.

It is not simply that he parents different than me. Whatever is driving his abusive tactics (personality disorder or whatever) toward me, is always there, even with the kids, just on a different level. Especially when he gets mad at them and begins putting them on "guilt trips" and manipulating them, in the same manner he does me.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> One thing though is that he has admitted some of this stuff to others. Can they write statements or anything??


Yes, there's two potential ways to do this. You can get affidavits, or in the event of a trial, you can call them as witnesses.




> . And no i don't believe he is putting them PHYSICALLY in danger, but i do believe (with all my heart), that his emotional instability, drinking, manipulative ways, etc are not healthy for children. If they get to, for example, go have a fun weekend with daddy, then no i don't think it would be harmful at all (it would be great). But if they were with him, lets say, every other week (which is what he claims he will fight to have), and he was actually doing parenting, not just "having fun", i think the kids would be picking up on his traits and i worry that they could grow up with "issues" similar to his. He always has his own best interest in mind, not the childrens. I don't even understand how he claims he wants them every other week, he has never spent that much time with them, ever!!! I spend every second after work and every weekend woth them. He rarely has time because his job is priority way higher than our marriage or the kids. Sure he loves to play with them, when its convenient, but has never done any of the work, even when i asked for help.


I get what you're saying. I'm just trying to let you know what the reality of a custody dispute is going to be. The reality is that most of what you think is relevant isn't going to be important in front of a judge. Judges deal with data, not opinions, not stories about the past, etc. If he has a drinking problem, you need to prove it. Him not helping much in the past isn't really going to matter. The court is forward-looking. They want to see a father that wants to be involved with his kid's lives and is using his parental time.

You have to understand that they're going to be considering what is in the best interest of the children and your opinion on that isn't necessarily going to be theirs. Judges consider the best interest of the children most adequately met when both parents are in the childrens' lives...barring abusive situations.

What you need to concentrate on is showing why you're the best person for the job...not why he's a bad father. Bashing him in court will get your nowhere unless you have firm data. Judges hate when parents bash each other in court. They want to hear how you're positively going to parent your kids. So just worry about how you're doing as a mom and proving that to a judge.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Thank you for the positive feedback. I totally understand what you are saying about focusing on why i am a good parent (instead of why he's not). That makes perfect sense. I guess my worry is that, he does things for show, and i can't help but think this is all for show as well. He is using the parental time now because there is nothing else going on in his life. Soon it will be baseball, and he won't be available for them much at all. 

I will just continue to do my job as a parent, and pray that it is apparent to a judge.

A big question in my mind now is should I go ahead and file for divorce (on my own) and try to come up with the money for a lawyer after i file, or should i try to keep things smooth until i can find a way to hire one? Thanks again, for the support.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> A big question in my mind now is should I go ahead and file for divorce (on my own) and try to come up with the money for a lawyer after i file, or should i try to keep things smooth until i can find a way to hire one? Thanks again, for the support.


Tough one. Have you thought about applying for legal aide?

I'd talk to your family and see what they have to say. You might need their support pretty soon so you might want to start the conversation now.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Ever since the separation i have been talking to family. Never had before that...

I called one legal aide company in the area and they have income limitations, that i am well above. The problem is that we have so much debt, not that we don't make ok money.


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