# Lies and other mischiefs ....



## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Hi All,
I have been with my husband for 5 years in total, married for One.

During our dating era and up to this day, we had/ have problems because the way and how often, almost daily, he and his female coworkers communicate ( which they are not in the same location or city than him ).
They are very much on their own, but having a Manager that oversees them , individually. So, his protests about that he needs the communication to get the job done, it is totally ridiculous.

I have a problem with the way they go back and for in daily texts, where they talk about what they have been doing in the weekend, for dinner o for fun. They joke around in a very single kind of way, unnecessary and many times inappropriate, like:

I am looking forward to seeing you,
I can't wait to see you,
I can't wait to get to the bar and get smashed
I have to come and visit and party, we only live once.

He travels for meetings and party with them. 

In addition, he has two favorites that he phones and talks with them often, the whole time we have been in the relationship.

They are in their 30's the majority, and most of them single.
My husband is in his middle 40s.

It is creating a lot of problems because he doesn't understand my discomfort and I am being called all kind of names. While he just screams, deletes everything,and blocked me from FB.

Our intimacy and bonding is deteriorating to the point that I am considering Divorce.
We went to Counseling and the Counselor did not say anything at all, one way or the other, seriously. After 6 visits, we stopped going.

Any advice? 
Thank you.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

malagacoast said:


> Hi All,
> I have been with my husband for 5 years in total, married for One.
> 
> During our dating era and up to this day, we had/ have problems because the way and how often, almost daily, he and his female coworkers communicate ( which they are not in the same location or city than him ).
> ...


Boundaries. He's definitely overstepping them. His communications with these opposite sex single coworkers should be kept professional. No bars getting smashed, no "can't wait to see you" texts. No texts at all unless they're specifically work-related.

Don't hold it in. Be open and honest. Tell him that you're not comfortable with this behavior. This is not how you think a married man should behave. BTW, this really is NOT how a married man should behave. If he respects you he'll cease this behavior right away. If he's selfish then he won't. Selfishness is a key indicator of a problem with a marriage.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Your husband is acting totally inappropriately. I would tell you to start the 180 and set him straight but honestly he is acting so badly with his lack of respect to you and flagrantly flirting in your face that I don't see how this won't end in divorce.

His problem is he seems like a chauvinistic pig. Men do not treat women like he is treating you with absolute disregard and disrespect.

Your problem is you allow it. What do you want out of your relationship? I cannot see how you believe this person is worth being with so can you explain it so people can understand?


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

""I cannot see how you believe this person is worth being with so can you explain it so people can understand?""

I am Swedish and he keeps telling me, this is "how people talk in America" Completely normal.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

But I have come to the conclusion he is just Full of it.
He loves admiration from anyone, specially females.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

malagacoast said:


> ""I cannot see how you believe this person is worth being with so can you explain it so people can understand?""
> 
> I am Swedish and he keeps telling me, this is "how people talk in America" Completely normal.


I believe the two men who have answered you here are American.

Just FYI so you know your husband isn't correct with his excuse.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

I know, Tacoma, thank you. And thank you to KingwoodKev and MovingAhead, I really appreciate your advice.
I come from a society, where this kind of behavior is totally unappropriated to say the least, but the man is an excellent manipulator and somehow it had me wrapped in his lies and now I find myself so unhappy and so distraught I have been questioning the validity of my values. 

I have been reading for a while and it scares me how many people see this kinda of thing "normal". 

I had enough of it, there are always one or two over the weekend, which makes the whole week a barely talking environment. Because I am pissed, and he just tells me that he cannot do anything about what these women say or how they talk to him.. He claims, it is not him saying these things, it is not his fault.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

malagacoast said:


> I had enough of it, there are always one or two over the weekend, which makes the whole week a barely talking environment. Because I am pissed, and he just tells me that he cannot do anything about what these women say or how they talk to him.. He claims, it is not him saying these things, it is not his fault.


How does he respond to these texts?

I ask because I get a lot of the same type of talk in my profession from women.(not text but in person)

I do nothing about it other than ignore it as if it never happened while keeping my attitude professional but jovial.
I also politely refuse every invite for a drink after work and mention my wife often in casual workplace conversation.

It doesn't take long before I'm no longer a target of this kind of talk and I don't have to ruffle any workplace feathers by outright rejecting a womans flirtations.
I work in a female heavy environment.

Point is, in my experience, if he wasn't fueling this type of texting it would very quickly sputter out on it's own.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

malagacoast said:


> Hi All,
> 
> It is creating a lot of problems because he doesn't understand my discomfort and I am being called all kind of names. While he just screams, deletes everything,and blocked me from FB.
> 
> ...


This is unacceptable behavior from a husband. He excuses himself as "American". American career woman here, 57 years old, ongoing 35 years married. He's feeding you "hogwash". He is psychologically abusing you.

Seek a psychologist for yourself. Get your mind straight so that you will not allow any forms of abuse towards you. Get a referral for a marriage counselor; one that does have real advice and opinions. If these doesn't work, seek a divorce attorney. You deserve a better husband. In your case, I'd rather be alone than live to be abused. Your choice.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

He replies in the same kind of fashion, jovial, but it appears to me, he welcome them. I am not sure, I have seeing these women comments but I do not see his responses, they are none, so I can only suspect the above, because they keep coming. He has told me, that he deletes these types of messages because he feels "pitiful" of me, and embarrased for me, being bothered by it.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

malagacoast said:


> He replies in the same kind of fashion, jovial, but it appears to me, he welcome them. I am not sure, I have seeing these women comments but I do not see his responses, they are none, so I can only suspect the above, because they keep coming. *He has told me, that he deletes these types of messages because he feels "pitiful" of me, and embarrased for me, being bothered by it.*


This is highly suspicious.
It's blameshifting and a red flag for some type of infidelity.
he's blaming you for his inappropriate actions (deleting texts)

He most probably deletes these conversations or at least his part in them because he knows he's replying in an inappropriate manner.

I believe this because the inappropriate texting from women hasn't stopped which from my own experience means he's not ignoring it but rather replying in kind which encourages it.

You've got a problem malagacoast and you're going to have to draw some firm boundaries regardless of any more blame shifting or crazymaking.

Do you have access to his phone logs?The phone bill?

Does he ever socialize with these women in person?
You mention invites for drinks, does he take them up on those invites?


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

His phone bill goes to his office. 

We just had a blow up and he is moving out.
I am DONE with him.
Tacoma, I feel the same. I am not a jealous person per se, but my gut tells me something is up. Specially with the last female he is working with. 

Too much, not worth it.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Tacoma, this has been going on for the entire time of the relationship. I have pleaded, cried, rationalized, etc etc etc ....
We get along just beautifully otherwise, but I feel like he is an excellent Compartmentalizer , and I am the weekend person and the rest , are they other girls. 
No more.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

malagacoast said:


> His phone bill goes to his office.
> 
> We just had a blow up and he is moving out.
> I am DONE with him.
> ...


He will be back, sweeter and more loving than ever.

if you really are done with him ignore/block him and file for the divorce...let the lawyer deal with him.

If you decide to take him back do it with the understanding that you will have complete transparency from him.
Access to his phone, e-mail and all communications and any suspiciously deleted text threads will be considered as guilt of betrayal and will immediately end the relationship.

Either way file for the divorce immediately so you're well on your way to independence in case a reconciliation doesn't work out.

You can stop divorce proceedings at any time up until the papers are actually signed by a judge.

(Not sure if you're in the US or Sweden so my advice may not be correct if in Sweden..check with the lawyer)


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

malagacoast said:


> We just had a blow up and he is moving out.
> I am DONE with him.
> Tacoma, I feel the same. I am not a jealous person per se, but my gut tells me something is up. Specially with the last female he is working with.
> 
> Too much, not worth it.


Don't ignore your gut feelings. Your intuition is there to protect you. Preserve your sanity. If he elects to leave instead of stopping his abusive behavior, then this speaks volumes about him. You deserve a peaceful life. You will be fine without an abusive husband. You have a long life ahead.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

I live in the USA.

I will get in touch again with my Lawyer on Monday. I have already done that.
This has been the MOST difficult relationship I have ever experienced.
I have not proof of anything "tangible" but his insistence in keeping up with these girls, the fact that he ALWAYS defend them, " they don't mean anything wrong, they do not have a number on me " it is difficult to make a decision based on just that, considering our marriage is / was loving, but it got to the point, I am afraid to bring any thing up because the way he reacts and he is afraid to answer the telephone in my presence.... and what's worst, he will not talk to me in person, he wants to fix this problem via text or via e mail ....


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Thank you Roselyn. And yes, I do deserve a peaceful life and yes, I do need to see someone that helps me to find the strong individual I have always been before I met him.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

By the way, I know all of what you guys are telling me, is the true. And I see it. I have been seeing it. But I needed to talk to someone and I have no One.
Thank you so much .


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

malagacoast said:


> By the way, I know all of what you guys are telling me, is the true. And I see it. I have been seeing it. But I needed to talk to someone and I have no One.
> Thank you so much .


You're welcome but this isn't over yet and he will be back.

If he follows his current MO there will be more gaslighting and crazymaking in order to get you back.

Just come back here to check your own sanity when this happens, don't let him manipulate you.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Tacoma what is "MO"


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

I think it is over this time.
Something must have happened in the last business trip they took, because he has been acting totally aloof and this time is not trying to beg me into staying.

In any case, I HOPE I keep my resolution and stay AWAY and NOT CONTACT>


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Thank you , ALL, again.
You have made me feel better within this horrible night. Somehow I feel like a robot-female. NUMB.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

malagacoast said:


> Tacoma what is "MO"


Sorry..

Method of Operation.

The way he does things.

There are names for the things you've described that he does...



> He has told me, that he deletes these types of messages because he feels "pitiful" of me, and embarrased for me, being bothered by it.


This type of manipulation is called "blameshifting"

He tells you he does the things that make you suspicious because you are suspicious...it's circular and confusing and can have a negative effect on you until you start to believe this whole things is your fault...he is shifting the blame for his poor actions from himself onto you.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Got it, Thank you Tacoma.
Fortunately, my upbringing was very strong, and regardless his manipulative ways, they have not worked on me as he would have wanted. That is the reason of the fights. I will not accept his lies.
Unfortunately , my upbringing also has a not too good of a side effect and that is, we fight to the end to save a relationship....


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)




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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

malagacoast said:


>


Aww.. malaga I know you won't sleep well if at all tonight but starting tomorrow keep yourself busy.

Keep friends around you if you can, get out of the house and occupy your mind with work or socializing.

For the love of god stay away from his social accounts (Facebook and such)

Start doing things for yourself.

Time will get you through this.

Again, come here to vent and talk if life gets too lonely.
There are a lot of people who have been and are right now in your shoes on this forum.

They can help you.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Yeah ... I know... but this kind of situation is so familiar by now... it is not the first time he goes away... sometimes for a month. He has friends here. 
This time is No More, Tacoma. 

I am going to the Attorney on Monday and then, I will disappear myself. My house is mine, before we got married. 
I have a beautiful home that I am proud of and have many projects that I will continue doing.

I will start the separation agreement right away and ... have to move on. Fortunately I live in a State which you could get divorce within 12 weeks.

We have no common debts or common anything, since I KNEW this was never going to stop.
The major problem here is to get " detached emotionally" And the reason is, because in reality, I have never had any "major" thing done to me that I am aware of.

But, yes, we have a Huge discrepancy of what is right or not about boundaries and how to keep a relationship in a healthy loving way. Without everyone and their mothers being intrusive and coquette.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Good night Everyone. Going to bed.
I thank you for your words, you have made a difference today for me.
Thank you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Right. So your husband knows that this type of flirty activity hurts you.

And he attempts to placate you by calling you names and screaming at you.

OK. Let's suppose that there is nothing wrong in the text messages at all.

Having said that, we still have your husband's treatment of you which, even if there were nothing wrong or inappropriate with the text messages, is still wrong.

There is something wrong with your marriage and it is potentially far deeper and worse, in my opinion, than how he interacts with a bunch of flirty women. 

He seems disrespectful of you.

Would counselling be an option for you both?


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

The person you describe seems to be immature and has limited communication skills. The problem you are having in this relationship is an age old problem. A marriage is a relationship, so sacred, that it has to be upheld at the expense of all others. It is not that we have to abandon all others, but the relationship has to be more important to us than our own selfish desires. Unfortunately, he has not made the leap from single to married.


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## tour_de_bewliderment (Feb 22, 2015)

Good morning, 

I am the person in question regarding malagacoast's post. Let me start by saying that if these things were done to a sister or female friend of mine I’d tell them to dump the a$$hole immediately and don’t look back – you deserve better. However, even though certain things were technically accurate with malaga's original post, the most critical aspects were left out.

When we first met I notified my entire world of the good news. I showed pictures and talked about her during work environments and conversations. My co-workers, with exception of one male person, are not here local but spread throughout the nation. We meet 3 times a year for work conventions. So when she says I “meet women for drinks after work” that is completely inaccurate. The real situation is, three times a year, I am in a hotel with over 300 hundred people scattered throughout. After the long day of meetings I socialize with my team of 8 people in a group and others for a brief time. Then I round up my male counterparts to go outside for drinks and cigars. 

There had been one female co-worker, a long-time friend of mine whom I considered to be a bratty little sister so to speak, who was quite verbal with her desire to “party” drink, etc. She and I, nor anyone and I ever had any romantic interest whatsoever. I made it a rule and made it known that I do not date co-workers. Moreover, I actually do not find any of my co-workers to be of an interest – not attracted to any of them.

In most work environments the discussion is around work: maybe you have a problem with your manager or there is an exceptionally difficult assignment you’re working on. And in a typical office setting you will be discussing these things. You will also most likely incur a little non-work chatter such as how was your weekend, how’s your Mom, how’s your kids, how’s your spouse, etc. In my situation not having an office the communication is primarily on my personal cell phone – this is the only way to effectively, quickly communicate. Sometimes the communication comes across after work hours or on the weekend because we cannot reach each other during the day. It is the nature of my working situation and is not to be taken as a personal attachment to one another due to the communication being on my personal cell phone. Again, this is the primary device we can use to communicate.

Yes, there were statements by a few female co-workers which if you don't know the person or my professional relationship with them could be taken way out of context. Keep in mind that I was NOT the one making statements such as: “can’t wait to see you; I want to get smashed at the bar”, etc. Likewise, I actually have years of knowing who these people are and their real intent behind their statements. I also never put myself in a compromising situation such as being alone with a female. I am always in a group. When Malaga would see a text or comment from a female she deemed inappropriate the first thing I’d do is try and let her know actually who that person was and what they meant in their communication and most importantly whom they meant to me – nothing more than a co-worker and after so many years a few of them were like my own family. 

I had employed tactics mentioned earlier by a man on this thread of posts: 1 – to mention my spouse to my co-workers frequently and 2 – to ignore any of their comments Malaga thought inappropriate and they would eventually stop. However, Malaga would not allow this to happen. She wanted me to “put them in their place.” I had, apparently, failed in every attempt to get her to understand the true nature of any communication with anyone. After one or two of these situations occurring and none of them being resolved things snowballed and years later they got way out of control. It took me years to even raise my voice at Malaga. But after so long every man has his breaking point and Malaga certainly reached that especially when I am firstly called names and yelled at.

Since talking with Malaga over the years didn't help, I simply deleted messages from pretty much any female co-worker in an effort to refocus her onto something real like we really have an opportunity to live a wonderful life here if you’d just stop making so much out of nothing. But that didn't work either. Now she is wondering why all the messages stopped. I finally told her and the opposite reaction occurred – she became enraged calling me a cheater and a liar. Once again, there is nothing to hide in ANY message from ANY co-worker. It was just that I felt Malaga was putting me into a situation where I could have no communication with anyone but that she’d take it the wrong way and cause a huge scene, ruining weekends, months, years, after hours and hours of discussions that went nowhere. Yes, after so many years of this nonsense I have a very short fuse. 

Counseling didn't help. Talking didn't help. Introducing her to these people didn't help. Providing complete transparency didn't help. We've been back and forth on a lot of things. At first I was totally open and transparent letting her know about everything. But in time she began to feel that every contact with my co-workers was inappropriate. We've reached the point now to where even when my happily married, 30 year old niece with a young child sends a facebook message to say, “we love you and miss you, when are you coming back to see us.” She claims my niece is inappropriate and flirting with me… It’s totally out of control. So then I deleted messages but later decided that was not fair to either of us and let her know. Like I said, it was a snowball effect from not resolving one simple thing.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

What he forgets to tell it is the fact that his new manager , a female in her 30's ( married, like that makes a difference now-days, ) which he spends the day with her in the car at least twice a month, (they are sales people)t is the one that text him, 


Thank you for a wonderful day,
I can't wait to see you,
I cannot deny anything to you
I love your love for the same food I love
Etc etc ...

And there are more and more things, from different females. Since day ONE. 
But I would stop here.
He thinks that sweeping things under the rugs and me being the nice little girl that keeps her mouth shut, it is going to make our relationship any better.

I never have screamed at him. 
He is the one that has broken doors and thrown things all over the places and put his finger in my face, screaming like a maniac telling me I was wrong wrong wrong ....


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Any way, there's no more Us.

He will never understand that "a couple" is called that for a reason.

In order to fix a problem you have to accept that there's ONE.
And then, if the other things in the relationship works, FIX IT , whatever it takes.

But no, that wouldn't be so much fun for him.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

tour_de_bewliderment said:


> Good morning,
> 
> I am the person in question regarding malagacoast's post. Let me start by saying that if these things were done to a sister or female friend of mine I’d tell them to dump the a$$hole immediately and don’t look back – you deserve better. However, even though certain things were technically accurate with malaga's original post, the most critical aspects were left out.
> 
> ...


...I have some sympathy for you....but not very much. Many of us here have or are in a work environment interacting with the opposite sex on a daily basis. What you are describing is a party atmosphere, rather than a business climate. Are you the manager? Managers set the tone, not the other way around. I guess what I am saying is, you created this mess, up to you to either clean it up or move on. But do not for a minute suggest that this is a typical business-like communication style.

And I do not hear the words, that you love your wife and have empathy for her fears and frustrations. Even if you do not really accept that she should have them, she is hurting and you don't seem too bothered by that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

malagacoast said:


> he just tells me that he cannot do anything about what these women say or how they talk to him.. He claims, it is not him saying these things, it is not his fault.


"Then I guess you will have to enjoy responding to them alone, as I will not stay married to a man who believes this is normal. I wish you well. You'll hear from my lawyer."

Either this wakes him up and he stops, or it doesn't, in which case you need to know - and can then walk away in good conscience because you'll know you'll be living with a cheater for the rest of your life.

And btw, no, most Americans do NOT talk this way. My H is a professional salesman and works with many women and I see all his messages and not a single one of them has interacted with him that way. In 35 years.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tour_de_bewliderment said:


> Yes, there were statements by a few female co-workers which if you don't know the person or my professional relationship with them could be taken way out of context. Keep in mind that I was NOT the one making statements such as: “can’t wait to see you; I want to get smashed at the bar”, etc.


Gee, and it never occurred to you to respond "Please don't talk that way - it's inappropriate and my wife sees all my texts and I don't want her to get hurt"?

Sorry, not buying it. You love the attention. My H has had women proposition him all the time, and all he has to say is 'please don't' and they get the message and they stop.

You haven't given these women 'the message.' And thus you have chosen to hurt your wife.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

malagacoast said:


> What he forgets to tell it is the fact that his new manager , a female in her 30's ( married, like that makes a difference now-days, ) which he spends the day with her in the car at least twice a month, (they are sales people)t is the one that text him,
> 
> 
> Thank you for a wonderful day,
> ...


malaga, call this woman's manager and let them know what she's doing. That should stop it.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

#####And I do not hear the words, that you love your wife and have empathy for her fears and frustrations. Even if you do not really accept that she should have them, she is hurting and you don't seem too bothered by that. ####

Of course not. He thinks he is the victim here. He has all these people telling him he should leave me, because I am insane to be bothered by these things.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

He found my thread here and I would like to know how can I move it so he doesn't see it anymore? Is that possible? because if he have become a member he can see it regardless, correct?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> He has all these people telling him he should leave me, because I am insane to be bothered by these things


What people?


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

These people at work, his females friends and some of the males as well. Yes, I am the BIG News about how paranoia and crazy I am among friends and family.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

So, he doesn't feel he needs to change anything because I am the PROBLEM> 
Actually in this post of him, it is the first time that he has narrated the facts " closer " to the truth, but leaving out many things that has happened during the term of the relationship.

He wouldn't talk with me in person and the few times that it happens, he will shut me out and start screaming and leaves. 

With the Counselors, he will tell his story, I will tell mine, Both telling us, to leave each other, They, telling me he is a Player, they, telling him, I was overly Jealous. 
Which he likes to call me that in a daily basis.

This type of Texting has happened since day one. And the last time with the new girl, it is happening currently. So this is not "many years ago" thing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

malaga, the thing is, you can't change him. Only he can. All you can do is show him what you will and won't accept in YOUR life, and he is then free to choose whether he wants to model his life to fit yours or not. If you can't stay married to a person who flirts with everything without a penis, then tell him that and take steps to divorce. He is then free to choose to wake up and ask himself some hard questions - or not.

To Mr. Malaga, I'm sure you've conveniently explained away all the wayward behavior, so I'll just leave you with this: Do you love your wife? If so, you will care if you are hurting her. And what you are doing IS hurting her, no matter how quaintly you box it away as 'appropriate behavior' in your mind. So you have to ask yourself, what do you want more - to be able to act like a single person (and BE one, as she will not put up with this forever), or to act like a married man with integrity.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

The last time he went to a meeting, This Month, he calls me in the morning for 3 minutes wishing me a good day and then, text me at 1 am in the morning telling me he will call me next morning.
The Company supposedly took the 300 people to a Club, which he say, he was there for a drink and then left with his cigar buddies back to the Hotel, but he didn't have time to give me a quick call either before or after ???? 
So yes, this is the Company he works for.
People in their 30's, may of them , trows them in a drinking, dancing atmosphere etc.

And that's OK with me, because what can I do. But his actions, not calling, especially since we were in a very weak emotional state, shows me how much of priority I am. 
The day before, his group took him for drinks, and again, I got a text at 11:45 pm saying " he is going to bed " 

Yes, that is very much the dynamics that goes on between us, when he goes to these Meetings.
Ah ... and he tells me that NO ONE in his Company is calling their family. NO ONE.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Turnera, there's not way back anymore.
There has been so much damage done.

I know people can do things differently , but , he wouldn't.

I have notice a tremendous change on him since this group is younger, it appears he went back to being 30 years old.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

turnera said:


> Gee, and it never occurred to you to respond "Please don't talk that way - it's inappropriate and my wife sees all my texts and I don't want her to get hurt"?
> 
> Sorry, not buying it. You love the attention. My H has had women proposition him all the time, and all he has to say is 'please don't' and they get the message and they stop.
> 
> You haven't given these women 'the message.' And thus you have chosen to hurt your wife.


I have given more than my share of polite lectures to members of the opposite sex who were acquaintances or coworkers over the years telling them I didn't think their comments were appropriate to a married man. More than one actually said "I know, they weren't supposed to be." At that point I ceased all communication with them even if they were coworkers and alerted my boss I did not want to work with that person any longer and told them why.

I've turned down what were probably innocent lunch invitations with members of the opposite sex because I told them I don't think it's appropriate for married people to go to 1-on-1 lunches with members of the opposite sex. I truly believe that. Group lunches with a lot of coworkers? Ok. 1-on-1? No, that's out of bounds for me.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

KingwoodKev:

The way I see it, There are two kinds of people :

Proper: behaving in a way that is correct according to social or moral rules.

Classless : Lacking social, moral, distinctions of class; trashy, tacky.

And that is what in the end, it comes to.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

malagacoast said:


> KingwoodKev:
> 
> The way I see it they are two kinds of people :
> 
> ...


I agree. You know what though? If your current man is not one of those people then you should move on for your own mental health and find someone who is. Guys like me are out there. I wouldn't cheat on my spouse if you held a gun to my head. I'd rather die clean than live dirty. There are men like that you just have to adjust your screening process and don't fall for male bullsh*t because we're full of it.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Having a very sad day today. I am not feeling good physically.

Thank you Turnera and KingwoodKev for your input.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

*****I agree. You know what though? If your current man is not one of those people then you should move on for your own mental health and find someone who is. Guys like me are out there. I wouldn't cheat on my spouse if you held a gun to my head. I'd rather die clean than live dirty. There are men like that you just have to adjust your screening process and don't fall for male bullsh*t because we're full of it.*****

I hope so. I am so ready for that kind of Person.!


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

--------I have given more than my share of polite lectures to members of the opposite sex who were acquaintances or coworkers over the years telling them I didn't think their comments were appropriate to a married man. More than one actually said "I know, they weren't supposed to be." At that point I ceased all communication with them even if they were coworkers and alerted my boss I did not want to work with that person any longer and told them why.-------

Exactly the way I operate, and believe me, I had/have plenty of these situations.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

I have said before that cheating is so much more than having sex with another person. 

That's not what destroyed my marriage.
What destroys a marriage is everything that accompanies the cheating. The lies and deception. And every single moment you invest in another woman, you are stealing time from you and your wife.

People's problems, attentions, flattering, insinuations, it is going to distract you from your duties to your partner.

It is going to make you late to meet with your husband/ wife/ 
it is going to distract you of truly appreciating their love for you, 
it is going to maybe interrupt great times with your spouse, and what is worst, it is going to make your partner feel less than....

Making them feel insecure and restrict the love that they want to give you because, inside in their gut , they know, something is not right ....


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Growing up in Europe, until my late 20's I saw couples that are old, in their 70's, ( I guess that is not old anymore) walking side by side while holding hands..
They are extremely polite, open, great conversationalists, jovial, but never in their world, would ever imagine or accept this epidemic thing about texting and flirting and being unappropriated with the opposite gender.

I want to live in that World.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

malagacoast said:


> Growing up in Europe, until my late 20's I saw couples that are old, in their 70's, ( I guess that is not old anymore) walking side by side while holding hands..
> They are extremely polite, open, great conversationalists, jovial, but never in their world, would ever imagine or accept this epidemic thing about texting and flirting and being unappropriated with the opposite gender.
> 
> I want to live in that World.


Unfortunately we don't live in that world. We live in this digital world where there are web sites and mobile apps dedicated to helping people cheat on each other. We need to start countering that. I'd love to watch the A$hley [email protected] crew ran out of business. They're parasites. 

Did you know there are mobile apps where someone can see on a map people of the opposite sex within a configurable range of them right now this minute that are looking to cheat?

It figures in our sick society that the first ones to jump on this were the cheating apps an not the marriage building apps.

I want to start a company that serves to counter every cheating app/website that exists. For ever person using any of those sites I'll be there to drag their behavior into the light of day. The truth will be on my side so I'll never be wrong in doing that. The truth will always set you free.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

KingwoodKew,

I read in your thread that your Counselor told you to get out of TAM for a while.
I do not agree.

I think your input and level mind is very appreciated in this forum, and believe me, I saw, three different Counselors, and I am not expert in Psychology but you are probably one of the best forum supporters I have read about... Better qualified that these people I saw.

I may not express myself as academic as I would like to, but your inner insight is very appreciated.
Thank you.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

malagacoast said:


> KingwoodKew,
> 
> I read in your thread that your Counselor told you to get out of TAM for a while.
> I do not agree.
> ...


Thank you for those kind words. I'm leery about giving advice here because I feel like I'm still in a vulnerable state myself. Then again, I do find it easier to help people with their problem more than dealing with my own.

My wife cheated on me with a friend/neighbor. For almost a year. It destroyed me but I'm back from the dead. That woman, whom I still love, is currently sleeping on the couch not but 3 feet away from me. I do love her so but she hurt me worse than anything or anyone has ever hurt me. We have so much to work through. I'm so hopeful we'll build something new but I'm not as naive about these things as I used to be.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Malaga: I get the impression that your H has been playing you for his" Plan B" for sometime now! You've been patient far too long.If you haven't consulted with a good piranha family lawyer by now, then you need to do so pronto!

So sorry to see you here at TAM, but you've definitely come to the right place for honest counsel!*


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

____ Thank you for those kind words. I'm leery about giving advice here because I feel like I'm still in a vulnerable state myself. Then again, I do find it easier to help people with their problem more than dealing with my own.

My wife cheated on me with a friend/neighbor. For almost a year. It destroyed me but I'm back from the dead. That woman, whom I still love, is currently sleeping on the couch not but 3 feet away from me. I do love her so but she hurt me worse than anything or anyone has ever hurt me. We have so much to work through. I'm so hopeful we'll build something new but I'm not as naive about these things as I used to be-------------


KingwoodKew 
I am sorry, I don't know how to quote posts yet.

But, as you know, "we learn while we teach"

And life experiences, are priceless, especially when it comes to this kind of personal issues.

For what I have read, cheaters, ( my apologies to your woman) they ALL follow the same kind of script.
So for people that have never experienced this kind of , let's called it, " out of body and mind event" it is very helpful.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Arbitrator:

Thank you for having me.

I agree with you.
Terrible thing to finally realize it.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

I was : Vibrant, Happy, Clean of Past Baggage, Innocent , Trusting...

I told him day ONE, I do not share my man ...

Now, after 5 years of continuing gas lighting, bulling , calling me names, misleading, twisting my words, assassinating my character to everyone that wants to hear .... no taking responsibilities for his actions, it is always someone Else's fault, using confusing tactics in arguments changing the subject.etc etc. Leaving me feeling like I am loosing my mind.

So yes, I need to do some work on myself now, to put back together where I was originally, but more assertive. There's not place in this world we live in being Naive. 
Unfortunately.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Arbitrator. 
We have done that.
Papers have been drawn.
We are in our way to D.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

malagacoast said:


> Growing up in Europe, until my late 20's I saw couples that are old, in their 70's, ( I guess that is not old anymore) walking side by side while holding hands..
> They are extremely polite, open, great conversationalists, jovial, but never in their world, would ever imagine or accept this epidemic thing about texting and flirting and being unappropriated with the opposite gender.
> 
> I want to live in that World.


That world is gone -- and in reality it was not as perfect as it seemed. People have obviously always cheated (it's just easier now). And smiling faces can conceal unhappy marriages -- especially in very long marriages. Sure, some are happy but many are not. Almost two years ago I ended a 45 year marriage. Everyone was totally shocked. They all thought we had a perfect marriage. But we didn't. 

Some will cheat regardless of how great their marriage is. Some will never cheat regardless of how bad their marriage is. The trick is figuring out who will likely cheat and who won't. I guessed wrong -- like many here. You live and learn and move on. Is that easy? Hardly. But it's what has to be done. And you do it and you will succeed. You WILL be happy again.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

malagacoast said:


> Our intimacy and bonding is deteriorating to the point that I am considering Divorce.





malagacoast said:


> Arbitrator.
> We have done that.
> Papers have been drawn.
> We are in our way to D.


That was fast.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

lenzi said:


> That was fast.


Yes, in my State you can get divorced within 3 weeks. And if one of the parties is missing, within 6 weeks. You don't even need their signature.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

One question I have:

Are some people so "clueless" about what flirting really is? or they KNOW very well and they jut's keep doing it because they get something they need, and they do not CARE.

Considering that this person, before I came along, had dated several women, all at the same time. While having a " girlfriend " . ( I just learned of this recently)

Just curious. Am I so NAIVE, really, to think he may not know the difference?


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

marriage...

a condition where she thinks he'll change but doesn't - and - where he thinks she wont change, but does...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Some men - I know a few of them - just believe it's their right to have a wife and then fllirt with (or screw) as many other women as they can get.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

malagacoast said:


> Yes, in my State you can get divorced within 3 weeks.


I meant that it was fast in that you went from considering divorce to filing divorce papers within 3 days.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Lenzi:

The papers were at the Attorneys office for a couple of months already.
I just told him to go ahead recently.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Oh, so you had already filled out divorce papers and they were in the hands of your respective divorce attorneys long before you said that you were "considering divorce" on 2/21/15. 

Can you see why your posts are confusing to some of us helpful advice givers?


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

My Question is : Do men like these exist? meaning, a woman could tell them "I think of you often" "can't wait to see you" "Thank you for a wonderful day " and do not consider that as a flirty, suggestive comment? or they are just full of it????

And of course I am talking about men living in this Country.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Sorry Lenzi.

Thank you. I hope my previous post clarified it for everyone.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

malagacoast said:


> My Question is : Do men like these exist? meaning, a woman could tell them "I think of you often" "can't wait to see you" "Thank you for a wonderful day " and do not consider that as a flirty, suggestive comment? or they are just full of it????
> 
> And of course I am talking about men living in this Country.


i let my wife know when someone does that to me. her too. 

some guys may have thick skins and maybe not get it if it was done once maybe. if the guy responds with crap back, he's suspect in my book.

my W mentioned a guy tried to stop her while working out at our health club. fixed. i did mention it to a female trainer the other night. the trainer really got pissed and said to let staff know immediately. seems a zero tolerance policy there.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

I agree with you Q tip.

This was done many times over and over trough the 5 years together and not just by One woman but with Every woman he had contact with, implying, he was the One common denominator, thus he being the One which starts the way these friendships are going to evolve. And yes, he responded back. How do you explain these kind of comments kept/keep coming?

It is hard to accept. Especially when deep emotions were involved in my part.

Oh well, live and learn.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

live well! its his fail NOT yours.

no one will ever have him as a mate. stay strong. freeing him to the wild enables you to focus on you and what makes you happy. something you've probably not done for a while.

take a trip somewhere as a celebration??


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Q Tip,
Thank you. Yes.
Thinking of taking a trip. Funny you have mentioned it.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Thank you All,

I am turning off my switch. 
Working on ME and hopefully .. I will find someone that loves Me and only Me with all my warts and all....


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

malagacoast said:


> Tacoma, this has been going on for the entire time of the relationship. I have pleaded, cried, rationalized, etc etc etc ....
> We get along just beautifully otherwise, but I feel like he is an excellent Compartmentalizer , and I am the weekend person and the rest , are they other girls.
> No more.


Look up the "180", implement it and start planning "your" future, make no inclusion of him for now and get ready to potentially go it alone.

The 180 will do two things, 1, get you off your azz and back out there socializing and making new friends, meeting new people, 2, it takes your focus off him, that's the double edged sword, you no longer focussing on him allows you to make creeping and ever so slight detatchment from his control, but if he notices then it makes him insecure of your marriage.

Crying, begging, pleading for change is pointless, he knows he's in control, taking that control back and away from him is the only way to break the cycle.

Unless you change the dynamic, this will end badly, yes he may have already cheated, that is something you do not know at the moment but be sure of this, the risk of true unhappiness at the hands of infidelity is a firm possibility without changes, he is not prepared to change, why should he? He gets all the attention he desires and hot scandinavian wifey to keep house, unless he truly feels that he is about to loose you, the dynamic stays the same, you change the dynamic, you change the future.
5


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

malagacoast said:


> Thank you All,
> 
> I am turning off my switch.
> Working on ME and hopefully will find someone that loves Me and only Me with all my warts and all....


awe, don't worry at all. warts are lovely!


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

wranglerman said:


> Look up the "180", implement it and start planning "your" future, make no inclusion of him for now and get ready to potentially go it alone.
> 
> The 180 will do two things, 1, get you off your azz and back out there socializing and making new friends, meeting new people, 2, it takes your focus off him, that's the double edged sword, you no longer focussing on him allows you to make creeping and ever so slight detatchment from his control, but if he notices then it makes him insecure of your marriage.
> 
> ...


Thank you. It has already ended BADLY.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

It doesn't matter what someone else will accept, what is age acceptable, work appropriate........ Who cares?

What will YOU tolerate. Everyone is different. If it's not okay with you, it's not okay. 

PLENTY of other fish in the sea.

Don't contform to anyone else's boundries - It never works in your favor.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Correct.

We cannot control other people but we can control what we accept.
This was overdue, long time ago.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

I just wanted to chime in and tell you I've gone through similar situations with my current Girlfriend..

Only after breaking up with her did she come around or listen to what I was saying..

You are justified to have these feelings.. 
If he stopped this and you still complained then he would be in the right.. 

I have told the GF several times.. Stop bringing other men into our relationship and stop making me feel insecure and I won't act out.. 

I told her if you stop introducing negative stimulus into this relationship and I am still acting out then you got me.. I have zero excuses.. If I start complaining after that you don't make the bed the right way. THEN you're right, I am complaining just to complain.. But trust me I won't complain..

Its so odd how something like this would be such a big deal.. I would have done anything for my Ex wife.. I mean really I would have done ANYTHING for her.. I would have never made my wife feel like this or how your husband is making you feel. 

The only difference is the GF swears utter loyalty and allegiance to me all the time in an attempt to make me feel secure.. But having these so called friends hovering around just negates those statements..


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Hardtohandle said:


> I just wanted to chime in and tell you I've gone through similar situations with my current Girlfriend..
> 
> Only after breaking up with her did she come around or listen to what I was saying..
> 
> ...


Exactly, thank you.
In my case, he never stopped but just kept getting angrier because I wouldn't accept it.

He told me they never meant what they say. These women, which he spends 4 times a year, a week at the time, in beautiful settings and with alcohol and music/dancing involved until the weeds hours in the morning. And continue that kind of talking and making plans of what they were going to be doing at these meeting during the rest of the year.
So yeah, very emotionally draining and exasperating.

The one thing that bothered me the most was that he wouldn't take phone calls from them or answered the phone while at home with me present. I asked him to do that.
He took it, or made me believe I was being controlling, and of course OVER jealous. And , not of just these girls, but from EVERYONE.
And to make things worst, he confided with these women, at least, 3 that I know of, which there are part of the Team, and guess what kind of feed back he got.

He posted in this Forum few times, but when people told him he was on the wrong, he dissipated. 
I may be jealous, but I am a very FACTUAL about narrating what I saw. While he rewrites history and ALWAYS blames me.

Like I have said, It is over now. 

Thank you for your comment, and I wish you the best with your GF. Hopefully she has seen the damage that kind of behavior does in a monogamous relationship.
It kills it.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

I have read here today something that really spoke to me:

"The man has no self awareness, can not admit to any faults, shortcomings, he shows anger, then shuts down, he rug sweeps.. he is passive aggressive giving you the silent treatment......LORD... I can't think of any more Horrendous communication skills than this ! 
" Remove from your life a person who does not care about your pain, it is your job to protect yourself from harm " 

So very true.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Malaga, I'm so sorry you're having to go through all of this. All I can say is that some of us guys are totally clueless. Someday, the fog will dissapate for him and he'll realize what a wonderful, supporting wife he HAD, but it will be too late. Then, where will he be?


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

People go out together as friends, coworkers, it becomes close friendship, and over time it morphs into dating. 
The thing is, the emotional connection is there. You are walking through the motions of a date. This is where feelings come from. EAs. Which is fine for single folks.

Now, when you have folks who are married or in a serious relationship, these activities take on a different form. So how does the spouse know their intentions? 
Why is my spouse hanging out with, finding a new place to their favorite food, talking on the weekends, texting each other about silly things, ( dating ) another? 
Because whatever the intentions, they are doing the dating ritual. The dance. The are connecting and bonding.

They never ever ever intended to have inappropriate feelings for someone else. 

Most folks who fall into EAs have good intentions. 
It is just being friends. It is so subtle to the people involved but it becomes obvious to others. Yet this is the most common form of infidelity. It is so common most folks don't know it even exists. Its just close friendships. And then ... ....


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Well.... I spoke to my husband today and he doesn't want to reconcile.

He feels I have nagged him to death, because I never just say OK, to this or OK to that, just don't do it again, etc. 
I fought him when these comments/ e mails/ texts and calls were too "friendly". And they were so many, that we didn't really have the chance to have a real relationship.

He felt bad when he was around me .... and the others, made him feel good ... I see it know.

Regardless, I love him and I have been a walking dead person for the past month. I am so desolated that I cannot even see the keyword.
How I am going to be OK again...


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Something I have learned : Separations are not good. 

If couples cannot work on their issues while together ... if there is a separation ... it's over.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Separation should be used to work on one's own issues, and sometimes people realize that they are not good together. There is a level of quality of bonds. Lets say 0 is where a couple live like roommates and have no interest in the others life, and are only together until the children are gone, but the bond between them is indifference. 100 is where the couple constantly stay in the honeymoon phase and are still deeply and madly in love. Neurological research shows that this is possible. If you were honest with yourself, how would you rank your relationship on that spectrum? The only person this answer really matters to is you. It is what you feel and how you perceive the relationship as.


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

malagacoast said:


> Well.... I spoke to my husband today and he doesn't want to reconcile.
> 
> He feels I have nagged him to death, because I never just say OK, to this or OK to that, just don't do it again, etc.
> I fought him when these comments/ e mails/ texts and calls were too "friendly". And they were so many, that we didn't really have the chance to have a real relationship.
> ...


You'll be fine even though it doesn't feel like it. It's human nature to perservere, all that is required of you is that you make the effort to better yourself and your life.

Remove yourself from this emotional leech and take care of yourself: exercise, eat healthy, sleep 8 hours a day, take up a hobby and socialize.

You'll get through this, your life didn't begin with and it will not end with this man.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

malagacoast said:


> He feels I have nagged him to death
> I fought him when these comments/ e mails/ texts and calls were too "friendly".
> And they were so many, that we didn't really have the chance to have a real relationship.
> He felt bad when he was around me .... and the others, made him feel good


God, how many times have I said this to women on this forum?

Men HAVE to be admired. Men HAVE to feel GOOD.

The fine line is how to do that WHEN THEY ARE CHEATING.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

malagacoast said:


> My Question is : Do men like these exist? meaning, a woman could tell them "I think of you often" "can't wait to see you" "Thank you for a wonderful day " and do not consider that as a flirty, suggestive comment? or they are just full of it????
> 
> And of course I am talking about men living in this Country.


Yes, they do exist. And they are all trying to seduce the woman they are talking to.

You husband knows that his actions are totally inappropriate. The appropriate action is what you have done, file for divorce. If your husband really wants to stay with you, he'll let you know. If he doesn't bother it means that he's long since given up on the marriage and just didn't have the guts to tell you.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

sidney2718 said:


> Yes, they do exist. And they are all trying to seduce the woman they are talking to.
> 
> You husband knows that his actions are totally inappropriate. The appropriate action is what you have done, file for divorce. If your husband really wants to stay with you, he'll let you know. If he doesn't bother it means that he's long since given up on the marriage and just didn't have the guts to tell you.


I have to say this is not what he claims.
He tells me, have told me, time and time again, since day One, my perception is wrong, my attitude needs to change, I need not to be concerned because I "know for certain" these women have no ulterior motives.
???? do I know? I don't even know these women.

I always admired him Turnera. I have been loving and sweet to him, but it is hard to be all the way in when you have all these people floating around your man. 

So my question is, since I have no proof of physical infidelity and I do care for him so much... what is the best way, if we decide to try again, to deal with this.
He wouldn't change because he is under the certainty that these convos are totally "normal" .
It would have to be me, the One that accepts and comply.
Even if I want to desperately try, I am not sure it is the best thing to do.

I know personally, I could just stop worrying and stop my nagging. Of course I can do that. But it is worth it?
Is that going to get us a really intimate, close relationship?


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Not really, because he values your emotions less. If he were okay with men constantly texting you, then you could learn to be okay as well. that is if you want to play by the same rule. I have a rule of my own. never trust anyone 100 percent. Trust should never be 100 percent either, you will be more blinded if a problem ever arises. He may see no issue in OPS, and he is willing to leave you over his boundaries about it. If neither can reconcile this issue, then your incompatible enough to say you married someone you both cannot be with overall. If you do loosen your boundaries, he should not be a hypocrite if men want to have intimate conversation with you either. You know yourself best, and you know what you can live with or not.


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

I'm sure if you stayed in this relationship, with the way he is carrying on, you will eventually find proof of infidelity.

Your husband knows that these conversations are not normal. If you're not aware, people lie and can lie convincingly and with conviction. Some will lie even when presented with video evidence or try to turn whatever around on to you and blame you. I have a friend who is an adult who convinced a much older man that he couldn't read or write and had this person write a letter for him. 

Whatever the lie, most lies tend to be self-serving and for the liar's benefit. In this case your husband knows that his commincation and behaviour with these women is wrong and sketchy. He just wants to have his fun without you "nagging" him. He will convince you that he has done nothing wrong and make you feel like s*** for having a problem with it.

Mr.Fisty is right, if you were to do the same his tune would change immediately and you'll be in the wrong for doing it.

He felt bad around you because he couldn't control and manipulate you into being his fool. It's very likely now that if he is curbing any chance at reconciliation then he probably wants to pursue another woman or women. He's seen an opportunity and wants to take it. Has he asked for 'space', a 'break' or wants to move out? If he's blaming you, wanting to end the relationship and move out then that's likely the case.

What is his argument here, "I left my wife because she had an issue with me having inappropriate relationships and communications with other women":scratchhead:?

You are not wrong or being unreasonable and do not even dare try to come around to his way of thinking or comply and accept it. Once you compromise on this, something that you are so against and know to be reprehensible, then it'll be easier to compromise on other things and you'll find yourself unhappy and depressed. He just doesn't care and his interests are elsewhere, definitely not on you or the marriage. I know it's hard to accept but be strong and take care of yourself.

You were right in voicing yourself and being resolute in your stance and defintely shouldn't have put up with and endured this through your whole relationship.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Sure, you can take him back. But you probably won't be able to totally dismiss it -- and he's not changing -- so, no, it isn't likely you'll have a really intimate, close relationship. Is that the kind of life you want forever?


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Hardtohandle said:


> I just wanted to chime in and tell you I've gone through similar situations with my current Girlfriend..
> 
> Only after breaking up with her did she come around or listen to what I was saying..
> 
> ...


sounds like shes addicted to orbiting betas fawning over her. she does it for affirmation among other excuses.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Locke.Stratos said:


> I'm sure if you stayed in this relationship, with the way he is carrying on, you will eventually find proof of infidelity.
> 
> Your husband knows that these conversations are not normal. If you're not aware, people lie and can lie convincingly and with conviction. Some will lie even when presented with video evidence or try to turn whatever around on to you and blame you. I have a friend who is an adult who convinced a much older man that he couldn't read or write and had this person write a letter for him.
> 
> ...


Exactly how I have felt.

What is WRONG with ME ....


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Openminded said:


> Sure, you can take him back. But you probably won't be able to totally dismiss it -- and he's not changing -- so, no, it isn't likely you'll have a really intimate, close relationship. Is that the kind of life you want forever?


Of course not.

The thing is, I really believe for some reason that even if the texts and e mails and etc are there, tangible, he doesn't realize that there's anything wrong with them.

I don't know, it may be a case of "The White Knight Syndrome" with him? 
The problem is, you know what kind of women these people attract .... but of course , if they have a 4 years degree, and they dress nicely because their profession, them they are just .... nice people .... "they have not ulterior motives ...." 

And they might not ... but it is very disturbing to maintain a romantic relationship with someone like that. There's always going to be "someone" that is in need of help, advise, etc.... and you know how the rest goes ....

So yes, I am in a position that if I want to be with him, I need to understand that, and for my own sanity , I will have to be forced to maintain relationships with friends, males, that would give me what my husband has not time to give me, because by the time he is around he is " tired " of fixing everyone's problems and or listening to everyone's day to day BS.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

-----It's very likely now that if he is curbing any chance at reconciliation then he probably wants to pursue another woman or women. He's seen an opportunity and wants to take it. Has he asked for 'space', a 'break' or wants to move out? If he's blaming you, wanting to end the relationship and move out then that's likely the case.--------

He has been doing that. For the past three months, with the exception of one week , we tried, but asked to look at his phone and found the " Can't wait to see you" from his Manager.

After I "begged" him yesterday, yes... "begged him " to reconsider, he is now in a vacation until Friday, supposedly back home, with his mom.
He told me we will gladly talk this weekend, if .... I decide I can accept, understand, that these people are not a problem in our relationship. 

So far, since that text, ( Monday) he has not contacted me.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

I guess, I am just not " it " for him. Regardless how we analyze this.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

And that's what it comes to.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

malagacoast said:


> Exactly how I have felt.
> 
> What is WRONG with ME ....




What's wrong with you:

You expect that your husband would have enough sense to respect you and your feelings. 

You expect that he should be intelligent enough to realize his actions are causing you duress.

You expect that he wouldn't treat you like a dog that has peed on the floor and wiping your nose in it.

You expect the he would shut down any inappropriate advances to maintain a level of business integrity

Expecting the above doesn't make you wrong.

Even if you get back together, he's going to keep doing the same routine. It's about his need of fulfillment these relationships give him. 

Like most cheaters, he has a void that can't be filled.

What happens when anything gets to close to a void? It gets sucked in and destroyed.

Don't stay near this void.

Reading through the posts here, this is a person that doesn't really care how you're affected by his shenanigans.

Stop dealing with him - get away - don't get any closer to the void.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

He is addicted to the high of all these women lavishing attention on him. You want him to stop, and he sees you as a negative because you do not invoke the same highs as all those women, so he is going to seek out what gives him the most pleasure.

Addictions can come in varying forms. So things like judgement, logical thoughts, and processing emotions, suffer. He is acting more impulsively, and will do what feels good at the moment. He sees you nagging, and negative emotions are more amplify. In order to get away from those negative emotions, he left you.

IMHO, the best thing to do is detach and move on. Like any addiction, he has to hit rock bottom and lose a lot to suffer the negative consequences of his actions. Remember, negative emotions are more amplified. Cut contact, make plans for you as an individual, exercise, and surround yourself with people that love you. Love and comfort has shown to lessen pain. Exercise has shown to grow new neurons, and meeting new people will slowly detach yourself from him.

Whether he comes back or not, you will be mentally healthy to be able to move on, or not. The goal is to start your way on healing and learning to live without him. You are your own center of your universe, he is not.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

snerg said:


> What's wrong with you:
> 
> You expect that your husband would have enough sense to respect you and your feelings.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much!


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Mr.Fisty said:


> He is addicted to the high of all these women lavishing attention on him. You want him to stop, and he sees you as a negative because you do not invoke the same highs as all those women, so he is going to seek out what gives him the most pleasure.
> 
> Addictions can come in varying forms. So things like judgement, logical thoughts, and processing emotions, suffer. He is acting more impulsively, and will do what feels good at the moment. He sees you nagging, and negative emotions are more amplify. In order to get away from those negative emotions, he left you.
> 
> ...


Thank you, very much! :iagree:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

malagacoast said:


> I always admired him Turnera. I have been loving and sweet to him, but it is hard to be all the way in when you have all these people floating around your man.


No offense, but from what I've read, you have had plenty of situations in which he did NOT feel admired...once he started cheating. Like I said, it's a fine line. Most men who I've seen cheat and then chuck it all and just walk away do so, IMO, because they feel - based on their spouse's actions - that they will NEVER be admired again. I guess I kind of equate it to when I was raising my DD24 and she'd do something that made me unhappy - I had to separate her action from her, and let her know I was doing that. That I'd still love her, but I surely wasn't happy with her choices. That way, she still felt loved, and hopeful, but saw the error of her ways.

Please understand, though, that I am NOT, in ANY way, saying what he's doing is right. I think he's a turd and you can do much better. I was just saying that so you'll understand men a little better, once you start to move on and seek a new partnership.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Turnera, this man was loved, admired, taken care by me in a way, that many women has not idea how.

I let him know, intelligently, reasoned with him, how these conversations, lies and deleting made me feel.

I admire a man for his actions. 
If he is not acting as a mature individual, he is not going to get my admiration. Get it? 
At the same time, He may not get my admiration , but I wouldn't disrespect him either, like doing behind his back to what he was doing to me.

So in the end, I am not responsible if I am dealing with a person that has a super fragile ego and you cannot discuss with him a problem that is killing the relationship, because oh no ... I cannot handle this kind of emotion .... people Love me, People Admire me ... what is wrong with you ... etc etc ... and leaves for weeks , months ...


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

turnera said:


> No offense, but from what I've read, you have had plenty of situations in which he did NOT feel admired...once he started cheating. Like I said, it's a fine line. Most men who I've seen cheat and then chuck it all and just walk away do so, IMO, because they feel - based on their spouse's actions - that they will NEVER be admired again. I guess I kind of equate it to when I was raising my DD24 and she'd do something that made me unhappy - I had to separate her action from her, and let her know I was doing that. That I'd still love her, but I surely wasn't happy with her choices. That way, she still felt loved, and hopeful, but saw the error of her ways.
> 
> Please understand, though, that I am NOT, in ANY way, saying what he's doing is right. I think he's a turd and you can do much better. I was just saying that so you'll understand men a little better, once you start to move on and seek a new partnership.


*Turnera*, please do not lump him together with the rest of us men. I know you specified '_most men who you've seen cheat and walk away_' but what you've described are traits common in narcissists.

The choice to cheat and walk away has nothing to do with admiration. His actions are entirely ego driven, narcissistic and selfish. The men do not 'chuck it all and just walk away' because they feel that they will never be admired again, they do so because they can not see beyond their own interests and wants.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Locke.Stratos said:


> *Turnera*, please do not lump him together with the rest of us men. I know you specified '_most men who you've seen cheat and walk away_' but what you've described are traits common in narcissists.
> 
> The choice to cheat and walk away has nothing to do with admiration. His actions are entirely ego driven, narcissistic and selfish. The men do not 'chuck it all and just walk away' because they feel that they will never be admired again, they do so because they can not see beyond their own interests and wants.


Narcissism, a 5% cure rate... So ...there’s a chance…..lol  

However I do have a serious Girl Scout cookie. problem. I am not sure about the cure rate on that one ..


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

malagacoast said:


> Narcissism, a 5% cure rate... So ...there’s a chance…..lol
> 
> However I do have a serious Girl Scout cookie. problem. I am not sure about the cure rate on that one ..



That is an easy answer. Hang up a sign that sates all girl scouts will be removed from the premise with extreme prejudice. Or, a healthier solution would be to train yourself to see those cookies as a reward. Ten minutes of jogging will give you three cookies. The former takes away all temptation as much as possible, and you might not like your actions. The latter will help increase dopamine and a varying ****tail of feel good hormones, and plus the cookies as a reward will give you something to look forward too. Although, the former will be more entertaining.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)




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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Just an update to follow up.

Finally divorced, but that doesn't mean I am out of the woods.
Still very much hurt and sad because I do still love him and he has been for most part ignoring the few e mails I have send him.
I wrote to him Mostly, because the pattern of the whole relationship, we had an argument and he will go away or scream or gave me the silent treatment, so things never got discussed and or worked on.

Two weeks ago he went to visit his family. Before that he texted me that if I could "change my perception " or the way I saw these texts he would consider talking to me in more depth. He say he will meet with me over that weekend.
The weekend came and went and he never called.

He send an e mail just three days ago enumerating all the comments I have made about these texts, deviated by him, of course, and told me, that we have not chance. 
Also brought up my age, (I am older than him.)
It made me feel like a complete looser.

I have spoken to my friends that know us and they all say that we look the same age .
I am a slender, 5'4" 112 lbs, fitted individual and dress with style and jovial in my mind, and keep up to day with the new.
I think his family has a lot to do with this. He is Very Close to his family.

In the back of my mind, this all of the sudden, turn around about Us, could have a 3rd person in it. But I couldn't even let myself think that way because I have not proof.
I do not accuse people of what I cannot prove.


The past few weeks it has made me see what kind of person I was involved with. I will never act that way with someone that is hurting, specially if I was the One that brought all the Hurt into the relationship.
How people could be so cruel ? 

Any way, trying to go on with my life and literally sometimes it takes 15 minutes at the time.

This has been the more challenging relationship I have Ever been in and now it is Over.

Thank you guys/girls for your support and help.
It truly has made a difference.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

You love a dysfunctional individual. Since he is dysfunctional, his choices will match that dysfunction. There is a high probability that his parents played a role, since they are a big factor of forming him into the person he is. He is not compatible with you and the type of marriage you want.

Good luck to you and I hope you find someone who better matches the type of relationship you want. It is probably best to stop convincing him that he should pick you instead of those other women. He would not reciprocate the same back to you, and I think you know that. He would not put up with lots of men messaging you, asking you to meet them privately, and have deep emotional connections with. Why fight for his affection, when he chooses those other women over you?


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Ah, I went to a Counselor this past week. She took almost 1/2 hour writing by hand my "profile" so what was left, another 20 minutes to go trough the good stuff, but of course, not enough time to even give me some reassurance about my hurt. 
I think I am going to try the EMDR thing. 
I need to get over this Fast.

I really believe I have been emotionally raped.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

In reality, it is my Fault. For being too invested and for not putting my foot down, ( which I did) but Really following up with consequences at the beginning of the relationship.
So there.... there's not one to be faulted after all. Just Me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

malaga, we don't grow up knowing what to do. We LEARN what to do, over the years, through EXPERIENCE. Don't beat yourself up for not realizing how to handle stuff earlier.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

He still cannot accept that HIS actions and behaviors have brought us to where we are today.

He told me that "I pushed him away" by my actions and complaints.

But yes, Mr. Fisty. You are right.
I will survive This.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

Can you imagine having your significant other for life where both of you actually commit, enjoy, trust, cherish, and show affection and intimacy for each other day in and day out regardless of the crap life throws at you - forever.

Is there a planet like that? I want to live in it !


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

malagacoast said:


> Can you imagine having your significant other for life where both of you actually commit, enjoy, trust, cherish, and show affection and intimacy for each other day in and day out regardless of the crap life throws at you - forever.
> 
> Is there a planet like that? I want to live in it !


You were in a relationship that was unhealthy for you so it's no surprise that you have this bleak outlook on life and self-esteem issues because of what he's said about you and your age. He's just an a**hole. There are people like that out there in life. It's hard to see at first because you were close to him but the more distance you get from him the better your outlook will be, it will take time.

You need to let go of him to move on. He still plays a huge role in your thoughts so cut all communication with him. You two are divorced and unless it concerns legal matters do not intitiate contact and reply to him. You will be fine, take care of yourself. Work out and exercise, eat healthy, socialize and engage in hobbies and activities that you enjoy.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

malagacoast said:


> Can you imagine having your significant other for life where both of you actually commit, enjoy, trust, cherish, and show affection and intimacy for each other day in and day out regardless of the crap life throws at you - forever.
> 
> Is there a planet like that? I want to live in it !


I have not responded in your thread because there was no need. You have been and continue to receive wonderful advice and have taken control of your life well. But to this post I felt a need to reply.

My wife and I have been married for almost three decades now. This is my second marriage and her first. We are deeply in love and nothing, not children, not finances, not anything has ever dimmed my love for her or her love for me. Don't get me wrong, there have been a lot of challenges. But when things got rough instead of it driving us apart we came together and fought like a team. When we first met I was completely honest about many things, one of which was that I had trust issues from being cheated on by my ex wife. My first marriage almost destroyed me and I couldn't go through that again. My wife and I decided to adopt a policy of complete honesty and transparency. We also started our marriage with a commitment to good communication and hold "state of the marriage" talks at least once a week. You have been through a very difficult experience. But experiences, good or bad are valuable. Take what you've learned from this experience and absorb this knowledge into your very being. Let it change you for the better so that in your next relationship you can set yourself on a course that will result in the exact utopia that you long for. It can happen. I'm living proof. But you need to make it happen. This is your life and it will go the way you choose it to. Choose well.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

malagacoast said:


> Can you imagine having your significant other for life where both of you actually commit, enjoy, trust, cherish, and show affection and intimacy for each other day in and day out regardless of the crap life throws at you - forever.
> 
> Is there a planet like that? I want to live in it !


My husband is like that, despite all the times I've treated him badly. They are out there. Set high standards for the next time. You'll find one.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

malagacoast said:


> Locke.Stratos said:
> 
> 
> > You were in a relationship that was unhealthy for you so it's no surprise that you have this bleak outlook on life and self-esteem issues because of what he's said about you and your age. He's just an a**hole. There are people like that out there in life. It's hard to see at first because you were close to him but the more distance you get from him the better your outlook will be, it will take time.
> ...


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

turnera said:


> My husband is like that, despite all the times I've treated him badly. They are out there. Set high standards for the next time. You'll find one.



You are very Lucky Turnera.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

bfree said:


> I have not responded in your thread because there was no need. You have been and continue to receive wonderful advice and have taken control of your life well. But to this post I felt a need to reply.
> 
> My wife and I have been married for almost three decades now. This is my second marriage and her first. We are deeply in love and nothing, not children, not finances, not anything has ever dimmed my love for her or her love for me. Don't get me wrong, there have been a lot of challenges. But when things got rough instead of it driving us apart we came together and fought like a team. When we first met I was completely honest about many things, one of which was that I had trust issues from being cheated on by my ex wife. My first marriage almost destroyed me and I couldn't go through that again. My wife and I decided to adopt a policy of complete honesty and transparency. We also started our marriage with a commitment to good communication and hold "state of the marriage" talks at least once a week. You have been through a very difficult experience. But experiences, good or bad are valuable. Take what you've learned from this experience and absorb this knowledge into your very being. Let it change you for the better so that in your next relationship you can set yourself on a course that will result in the exact utopia that you long for. It can happen. I'm living proof. But you need to make it happen. This is your life and it will go the way you choose it to. Choose well.


I am totally confident my next Man will be all That. 
Thank you !


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

-----You need to let go of him to move on. He still plays a huge role in your thoughts so cut all communication with him. ------

Doing that.
Thank you!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Didn't read all the pages so ignore me if this was already addressed, but why did you get married in the first place?

If he was doing this the whole time, you should have called it quits long ago. Do you have a history of relationships with bad boundaries? Make sure you address that or you're likely to repeat it in the future.


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