# Found out wife cheated, advice



## fido3039

So looking for some advice here. I know for sure the majority of advice will be to "move on", but please, before recommending so, consider the scenario, as this is what I am most confused about. I will try to keep it short.

12 years together, 6 married, 5 year old son. So, a month ago I found out my wife cheated on me multiple times with different mens (4 in total). This will surely sound BIG, and it does, but I am going to give some perspective. After I found out, we separated, basically she moved out with our kid. The way I found out was that I checked her phone, and while I did find out that she did, I wasn't sure how many times and with how many mens. I went no contact with her immediately and only talk about the kid.

So over the last year or so, our relationship deterioted deeply, to the point that I neglected sex to her for the last 6 months or so, this was previous to the end of January. Upon not feeling very well with the situation and at the risk of loosing my family, I started to treat her better - meaning, I would go on date, have more sex, etc. She was accepting that and was feeling comfortable again with me. We had very good times over the next two months or so (until April). Anyway, I noticed a change in her behavior from last year, and it was that she kept using her phone more often, something that she had never done in our years together and this caught my attention. So this got me curious and one night in April I went to check it and found out. At the time I did not confronted her with all the details, I just asked her and she admitted and I asked her to move out and she did. The next day when she moved out, she told me that she wanted to speak with me about the situation and she came home and told me that she was sorry, crying, etc. but I told her we need to keep distance and she left again. She left a lot of her and the kid's clothing at home, mainly due to accommodation and I let her do it until she can find a place. 

Now, over the next couples of weeks of April I kept communication only regarding the kid, she respected that. She never tried to reach me or anything, she respected my boundaries. She is staying at her mother's. Fast forward to April's last Friday, I offered her to keep the kid while she can find a place, so that he is not uncomfortable sleeping elsewhere. I even suggested her that I can keep him and that I will have no issues for her to pick him up whenever she please. This was early in the morning and I did not got a response from her until late evening, when she answered that if I agree, she can come home to discuss this. I told her no, that we should talk in another public place, but she insisted to come so that she can pick up some clothing for her and the kid. I had to agree.

She came home that day late evening, and we discussed the arrangement, meanwhile she started packing some of her clothes. She tried to somehow include the separation subject into the manner, etc but I kept holding her off, but i couldn't hold it anymore and had to ask her. I asked her why, why, why. I told her the nightmare I have been living in since I found out. We both crumbled, we cried together, etc. she told me she does not wants to leave, she was remorseful, that she wants the opportunity to show me how she has changed and will change, etc. but ultimately I helped her pack her clothing and she left. She texted me that she will wait for me no matter the time, etc.

I went back to No Contact, but after this day, she started to somehow be more inclined to talk to me. She respected my boundaries still, but was starting to kind of be more communicative and gentle, asking me on some days how I am doing, etc. Obviously, I always had flat out answers as "Fine, Ok, good". So in one of those days she messages me asking me how I am doing in general and how I am doing with her, etc. I couldn't help but told her that I haven't feel any worse in my life, etc. but that I know I will someday feel better. She then proceeded to tell me that she misses me, misses our family, that she loves me, bla bla bla. I told her to cut it off and ignored her, but she insisted. I told her that I wanted her to tell me those things she said in text to me face to face, and that to be prepared to have a clean, honest, and serious conversation with me regarding all that happened.

So we went ahead and got together in the next day or so and she expressed everything. I asked every detail of the encounters. From October last year until March this year, she had 4 affairs with different mens. The first man she had sex two times with him, the second man 3 times, the third man was a one night stand that she new at a bar and the last man she had sex two times. I asked every detail, etc. Of course, I have no specific way to corroborate this so I trust what she said, as I just let her throw it all out. These months were difficult months during our relationship, but I know nothing actually will justify her actions. 

Now, for the last part, she has shown remorse and I asked her to come up with a plan on how we can fix all this mess, just to see what she would do or think about it. She told me she never had any intentions to leave me, and i know this, since I have always been the breadwinner and those mens knew she was married. She is deeply sorry about breaking the family and how this will affect our kid, but one thing she keeps reminding me is this: And that she wants to do it (get back), but it will not be because of the kid, but because of us, that while she understand his future is important, she will get back to me because of us. I have never had any doubt about her and I know for sure that regarding the timeline at least she is somehow telling the truth, as I did noticed a change in her behavior starting that specific time. She did not have any affair previously that I could tell or that she told me. But while I do want to keep my family, I am not sure I will be able to forget about that. All I worry about is my kid - we were always a happy family, and he misses that. We never had any arguments or anything. We just neglected our sex life for just too much of a time. She insist that she has changed and that she will change and that she will wait and accept that I wont be able to forgive her in a long time, but she wants the opportunity to show me. She has no issues with getting under any condition I may put as in open phone policy, etc. I truly believe her regarding this, because I know for sure that she never thought she was going to get caught, and now that she did, she knows how much she was putting at risks here. But I dont know if I will be ever to see her again like I used to see her. She has not yet come up with the idea of how we can clean this mess and I am waiting for her proposal, but in the meantime I was hoping to get some advice from here. Happy to answer any additional inquiries regarding information as I know I have left a lot out, so if you need some more clarity, let me know. Thanks!


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## BigDaddyNY

You are married to a ****, I don't know how else to say it. She screwed 4 men NSA while supposedly being a mom and wife. Your child will be fine when you divorce and you can be a role model showing that bad behavior has consequences and that you aren't a door mat. I know this is all harsh, but you WILL NOT ever forget about what she did, screwing guys behind your back. She has already destroyed your marriage.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

There is no way you can spin this in her favor. Four men? That's disgusting. If you want to play "**** police" with her for the rest of your life go ahead, but I wouldn't recommend it. 

Being good coparents is about the best you can do under those circumstances.


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## ccpowerslave

fido3039 said:


> I know for sure the majority of advice will be to "move on", but please, before recommending so, consider the scenario, as this is what I am most confused about.


I have read your scenario and considered it carefully and I have come to the conclusion that you should move on.

Incidentally, why did you reject sex for that six month period, what happened?


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## fido3039

ccpowerslave said:


> Incidentally, why did you reject sex for that six month period, what happened?


It was a period of time when I felt depressed and angry towards her with no good reasons.


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## BigDaddyNY

fido3039 said:


> It was a period of time when I felt depressed and angry towards her with no good reasons.


It doesn't excuse her infidelity.


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## fido3039

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> If you want to play "**** police" with her for the rest of your life go ahead, but I wouldn't recommend it.


It is one of the things I am so confused about. I know for sure that the woman I loved was not this woman, and for some reason I am believing on what she is telling me. I know I wont be the same person that trusted her deeply, and she knows this, so I believe that she knows what we are going to if we decide to reconcile and give it a try, she wont have it easy. This was the first and ever time she cheated, I can ensure you this.


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## Dictum Veritas

Why would you want to be with a woman like this? 4 different men? That's a serial cheater. Serial cheaters are not reconciliation material, ever. They ALWAYS do it again!

If you are okay being in a one sided (her side) open marriage eventually, go ahead and take her back, because that would be what you are signing yourself up for if you do.

Adultery changes a person spiritually. She is not the person you married anymore. She has damaged herself beyond redemption as far as your marriage is concerned. You need to come to terms with that fact and move on. She will never again be able to maintain a monogamous relationship with you.


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## Evinrude58

Well, I read it all thinking there must be some wild reason while you’re willing to accept a serial cheater back in your life. I found less than nothing. 

Key phrase I saw: “You’re the main breadwinner”….

Anyone that reads this will probably come to the same conclusion as me:

your wife is saying all the classic ******** that a serial cheater says in order to try to get her free meal ticket, security blanket, and emotional support dummy back.

Di what you’re gonna do, but know that there’s100% metaphysical certitude that she will cheat again, and this time you’ll have known ahead of time, so don’t get upset at anyone other than yourself.

my advice: Yes, move on like you already know you should.


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## fido3039

BigDaddyNY said:


> It doesn't excuse her infidelity.


No, nothing does. But I am so confused regarding that I know that she ****ed up and it is facing the consequences and for some reason this has make a wake up call on her.


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## Evinrude58

fido3039 said:


> It is one of the things I am so confused about. I know for sure that the woman I loved was not this woman, and for some reason I am believing on what she is telling me. I know I wont be the same person that trusted her deeply, and she knows this, so I believe that she knows what we are going to if we decide to reconcile and give it a try, she wont have it easy. This was the first and ever time she cheated, I can ensure you this.


2x4: Sorry, it’s not the first time. You’re so willing to overlook the facts to settle the problem of cognitive dissonance, that you can’t even count. Bro, she’s cheated 4 times.

this is a different number than “first”.

please think about what you’re having to do to wrap your head around this because there’s no logic in your decision. Mental gymnastics at its best. Don’t do this to yourself.


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## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> They ALWAYS do it again!


This is what I am having a hard time accepting. I mean, i know her deeply and i know she did it for other months only, so basically I am having a hard time accepting that she turned into this and will do it again. Crap


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## fido3039

So I have read all the comments so far and as I expected, the consensus is to move on. I just feel so sorry for my kid, his family unit. I was hoping to AT LEAST get to an scenario that while having to put it under the lapse of time, perhaps it could have worked out.


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## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> Bro, she’s cheated 4 times.


I know this, just that it is not that I caught her once and then again, I have only caught her once


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Brother, i feel for you. I am a fellow who reconciled, but multiple men, no way. Get out. Get you a good attorney and extract yourself from this hellish situation. Where you are at now is no way to live. Your marriage is dead and she killed It.


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## BigDaddyNY

fido3039 said:


> So I have read all the comments so far and as I expected, the consensus is to move on. I just feel so sorry for my kid, his family unit. I was hoping to AT LEAST get to an scenario that while having to put it under the lapse of time, perhaps it could have worked out.


It does suck that your wife did this to your family, but it is on her. 

I know you want to think it was a lapse and she would never do it again, you know her too well right? I bet you thought something very similar prior to her going out and banging 4 men over the course of a few months.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

fido3039 said:


> No, nothing does. But I am so confused regarding that I know that she ****ed up and it is facing the consequences and for some reason this has make a wake up call on her.


Yea, because she living at her moms, OMs have gone into hiding and she is on the brink of losing her breadwinner husband. Reality hit her like a brick. Fortunately, you've done well so far.

The woman that bore you a child also cheating on you with 4 men. That's who she is. I think you need to accept that. Marriage is never the same after infidelity. It's awful, you can't trust the person that's suppose to have your back and you start hating the person you are suppose to love. Been there done that. 

For your own sanity, I'd recommend moving on.


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## BigDaddyNY

fido3039 said:


> I know this, just that it is not that I caught her once and then again, I have only caught her once


That means she made the choice over and over again, more than half a dozen times, to allow another man to be inside her. Not to mention, you are believing the story told by a known liar.


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## fido3039

BigDaddyNY said:


> I know you want to think it was a lapse and she would never do it again, you know her too well right? I bet you thought something very similar prior to her going out and banging 4 men over the course of a few months.


Yes, that is true, but I am also a firmly believer that "the grass is greener on the other side" so perhaps I was hoping for an scenario where she would show true remorse about the loss of what she did


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## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> So I have read all the comments so far and as I expected, the consensus is to move on. I just feel so sorry for my kid, his family unit. I was hoping to AT LEAST get to an scenario that while having to put it under the lapse of time, perhaps it could have worked out.


I feel sorry for your pain, your kids pain and for the breakup of your family, but none of this is your fault. You may not have been the best husband, but adultery tears the fabric of the universe. It's a crime of ultimate betrayal against the family and the bonds of marriage.

It changes both the guilty and the betrayed at a core fundamental and spiritual level, leaving the betrayed with an injured ability to trust and the adulterer with a mark that makes them unworthy of love.

I'm sorry you are here, but you need to focus solely on you and your kids now, she made her choices to betray the family unit and become unfit to be part of it. You need to provide for yourself and your children, the best life forward that excludes or at least negates the destructive presence she has become.


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## BigDaddyNY

fido3039 said:


> Yes, that is true, but I am also a firmly believer that "the grass is greener on the other side" so perhaps I was hoping for an scenario where she would show true remorse about the loss of what she did


She may have remorse for getting caught and losing what the marriage does for her, but ask her if she enjoyed the sex she had with those men. You know what the answer will be, she loved it. Probably had spectacular orgasms. Probably bad mouthed you to those men. Why do you want to reconcile with that?


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## Chaotic_Aquarian

Dear Fido,

Hopefully you've done so already, but if not I advise reading the many, many, many threads here started by those that chose to rugweep and the effects of doing so. As they say, infidelity is the gift that keeps on giving-but you already know this don't you?

Good luck whatever you choose.


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## fido3039

BigDaddyNY said:


> That means she made the choice over and over again, more than half a dozen times, to allow another man to be inside her. Not to mention, you are believing the story told by a known liar.


This is something I cannot get over with


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## SnowToArmPits

> She insist that she has changed and that she will change and that she will wait and accept that I wont be able to forgive her in a long time, but she wants the opportunity to show me.


Hi OP. This ^ is going to be a helluva gamble on your part. 
She has shown you, hasn't she - she's a cheater. 
You asked for an honest opinion... I think it's possible for you to reconcile. You're going to be wondering though "I wonder what my lying, cheating wife is up to right now". That's going to be tough to deal with, that's going to be a big challenge, trusting her again.
Boo for you treating her bad to start with, but you didn't deserve to be cheated on, She was a selfish, mean sh*t doing that to you.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

fido3039 said:


> This is something I cannot get over with


If you know you can't get over it, then you should move on. It will eat you alive and your marriage will be toxic.


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## fido3039

BigDaddyNY said:


> She may have remorse for getting caught and losing what the marriage does for her, but ask her if she enjoyed the sex she had with those men. You know what the answer will be, she loved it. Probably had spectacular orgasms. Probably bad mouthed you to those men. Why do you want to reconcile with that?


I asked every detail, and she confessed. They all knew she was married, according to her.


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## Evinrude58

I know how you feel. I wanted to try to reconcile with my cheating wife also. Heck I loved her. Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

I loved who I THOUGHT she was. I lived who she was in my head, not the real person she is.

You’d not have dated her had you known she was capable of banging 4 men at bars while being your wife. 
So realize the craziness of wifing her up again.

you: provider, security, quality of life.
Every other man: stud she’d like to f

think about that: 4 men. None of which wanted to keep her. What are they seeing that you don’t?


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## fido3039

SnowToArmPits said:


> Hi OP. This ^ is going to be a helluva gamble on your part.
> She has shown you, hasn't she - she's a cheater.
> You asked for an honest opinion... I think it's possible for you to reconcile. You're going to be wondering though "I wonder what my lying, cheating wife is up to right now". That's going to be tough to deal with, that's going to be a big challenge, trusting her again.
> Boo for you treating her bad to start with, but you didn't deserve to be cheated on, She was a selfish, mean sh*t doing that to you.


Thanks for your input. Yes, I know this, and I have let her know all about this. That it will take us, if we ever decide, long long time and that I will never be the same. She is pretty sure about herself and says that she is willing to wait for me, and that it is her actions that will show me rather than words.


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## fido3039

SnowToArmPits said:


> Hi OP. This ^ is going to be a helluva gamble on your part.
> She has shown you, hasn't she - she's a cheater.
> You asked for an honest opinion... I think it's possible for you to reconcile. You're going to be wondering though "I wonder what my lying, cheating wife is up to right now". That's going to be tough to deal with, that's going to be a big challenge, trusting her again.
> Boo for you treating her bad to start with, but you didn't deserve to be cheated on, She was a selfish, mean sh*t doing that to you.


Thanks for your input. Yes, I know this, and I have let her know all about this. That it will take us, if we ever decide, long long time and that I will never be the same. She is pretty sure about herself and says that she is willing to wait for me, and that it is her actions that will show me rather than words.


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## Dictum Veritas

@fido3039 , If you have slept with her after she had been with these men, please have yourself tested for STDs, some of those things can kill. Your kids need you as the stable parent.

I know you want to reconcile, I advise against it, but go see a lawyer in any case just to get an idea of how you would look like financially after a divorce.

I would recommend, if possible to audio record any in person communication you have with her. False DV charges happen all too regularly in situations such as yours and a recording can prove you innocent.

At least take these steps regardless of D or R. She has proven you can't trust her, protect yourself before any other hidden deceitful characteristics she has hidden causes you more trouble.


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## Evinrude58

Betrayed spouse syndrome: thinking THEY caused her to cheat. Super common. Look it up. If you were di bad she had to cheat, why does she want you back?


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## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> I know how you feel. I wanted to try to reconcile with my cheating wife also. Heck I loved her. Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!
> 
> I loved who I THOUGHT she was. I lived who she was in my head, not the real person she is.
> 
> You’d not have dated her had you known she was capable of banging 4 men at bars while being your wife.
> So realize the craziness of wifing her up again.
> 
> you: provider, security, quality of life.
> Every other man: stud she’d like to f
> 
> think about that: 4 men. None of which wanted to keep her. What are they seeing that you don’t?


No, wait. Her intentions were NEVER to leave me, those man even knew she was married. It was never more than an affair. She knows this.


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## Evinrude58

fido3039 said:


> Thanks for your input. Yes, I know this, and I have let her know all about this. That it will take us, if we ever decide, long long time and that I will never be the same. She is pretty sure about herself and *says that she is willing to wait for me, *and that it is her actions that will show me rather than words.


Please, please tell me you don’t believe that bs. She couldn’t wait while you were married!!!!


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## BigDaddyNY

@fido3039 as @Dictum Veritas said get yourself tested for STD if you've had sex with her since she slept around. Did your wife mention if she had unprotected sex?


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## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> @fido3039 , If you have slept with her after she had been with these men, please have yourself tested for STDs, some of those things can kill. Your kids need you as the stable parent.
> 
> I know you want to reconcile, I advise against it, but go see a lawyer in any case just to get an idea of how you would look like financially after a divorce.
> 
> I would recommend, if possible to audio record any in person communication you have with her. False DV charges happen all too regularly in situations such as yours and a recording can prove you innocent.
> 
> At least take these steps regardless of D or R. She has proven you can't trust her, protect yourself before any other hidden deceitful characteristics she has hidden causes you more trouble.


Thanks for the advice. And yes, I have recorder all conversations with her consent.


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## Evinrude58

fido3039 said:


> No, wait. Her intentions were NEVER to leave me, those man even knew she was married. It was never more than an affair. She knows this.


Yes, but they banged her a couple of times abd had no intention of being with her. Why is that? It wasn’t even emotional. She just wanted to bang other dudes. I’d have more respect for a woman that at least developed an emotional connection first.


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## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> Betrayed spouse syndrome: thinking THEY caused her to cheat. Super common. Look it up. If you were di bad she had to cheat, why does she want you back?


No, I never said I CAUSED her to cheat, read again. It is all her fault, not mine. Cheating was never an option. All I am looking here is for possible scenarios, I really really feel a lot for my kid, splitting will break him in the long run.


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## fido3039

BigDaddyNY said:


> @fido3039 as @Dictum Veritas said get yourself tested for STD if you've had sex with her since she slept around. Did your wife mention if she had unprotected sex?


Yes, I have tested myself for STD and I am clean. I asked her and she said it was all with protection.


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## Evinrude58

No, it won’t break him. You’ll get 50/50 custody most likely. And he will grow with a happy dad instead of a miserable one which is what you’ll be if you stay. Would you want your son to tolerate this from his wife one day? Be the man you want him to be, snd he’ll likely be that man too one day.


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## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> Yes, but they banged her a couple of times abd had no intention of being with her. Why is that? It wasn’t even emotional. She just wanted to bang other dudes. I’d have more respect for a woman that at least developed an emotional connection first.


Yes, this is absolutely true and I agree. Everytime, it was her chasing them, not the other way around.


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## Evinrude58

fido3039 said:


> Yes, I have tested myself for STD and I am clean. I asked her and she said it was all with protection.


I’ll bet next months salary it wasn’t.
99.9% of cheaters don’t wear protection.


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## re16

The problem is even if you were to do what she wants and accept her back, she would forever look at you as weak for allowing her to screw other men and not really doing anything about it. THERE IS NO WAY TO FIX THIS.

Also, there are literally billions of women out there, and only one that cheated on you four times...find someone else.

You should know that her confession is the tip of an iceberg, they always are.


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## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> Yes, I have tested myself for STD and I am clean. I asked her and she said it was all with protection.


I can tell you now that's BS (about protection). She was willing to betray you and risk her marriage for cheap thrills. Do you really think if she was willing to risk all of that, she was going to consider the risk of unprotected sex significant at all?

They always say it was protected, but from experience I can tell you it very rarely is.


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## fido3039

re16 said:


> The problem is even if you were to do what she wants and accept her back, she would forever look at you as weak for allowing her to screw other men and not really doing anything about it.


I am the one implementing the NC and following through, she is damn sure that I am only willing to do this for the family and kids sake initially. Reason she says that she will only do it for us.


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## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> No, I never said I CAUSED her to cheat, read again. It is all her fault, not mine. Cheating was never an option. All I am looking here is for possible scenarios, I really really feel a lot for my kid, splitting will break him in the long run.


Would you want your kid to stay with someone who respected him and his marriage so little as your wife did you and yours?

Time to set an example that is worth following, time to shape his life for the better.


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## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> I can tell you now that's BS (about protection). She was willing to betray you and risk her marriage for cheap thrills. Do you really think if she was willing to risk all of that, she was going to consider the risk of unprotected sex significant at all?
> 
> They always say it was protected, but from experience I can tell you it very rarely is.


After all she has done, protected or not to be honest I could care less, i mean, the damage is just a lot already, knowing this or not makes no difference at all


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## UpsideDownWorld11

fido3039 said:


> Yes, this is absolutely true and I agree. Everytime, it was her chasing them, not the other way around.


She isn't marriage material.

What makes you think it's only 4 men or was that all you could prove and all she admitted to?


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## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> Would you want your kid to stay with someone who respected him and his marriage so little as your wife did you and yours?
> 
> Time to set an example that is worth following, time to shape his life for the better.


I was just thinking that because of his age (5) he will not be able to understand any of this for now, but splitting he will be able to perceive it.


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## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> I was just thinking that because of his age (5) he will not be able to understand any of this for now, but splitting he will be able to perceive it.


My daughter is 5, she understands, believe me, they understand very well at this age. These are the years where the foundations are lain upon which they build their lives and if the example is that you can accept this, then they will also be prone to accept being trodden on in future.


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## Zedd

fido3039 said:


> I was just thinking that because of his age (5) he will not be able to understand any of this for now, but splitting he will be able to perceive it.


My son was 4 when I divorced. He's fine. He's actually better than fine, he now has myself, and 2 maternal figures (my wife and his mom) who love the **** out of him.


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## re16

fido3039 said:


> After all she has done, protected or not to be honest I could care less, i mean, the damage is just a lot already, knowing this or not makes no difference at all


The thing to note here is that she is still lying to you.... it wasn't protected everytime and she claims it was. You get that right? You understand what that means? She will do or say anything to get what she wants... and when she wants another dude 6 months down the road, she will lie about that also.


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## re16

You are better off to divorce when your son is 5 not 7 or 8 or older... and she will cheat again... that is what cheaters do.


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## fido3039

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> She isn't marriage material.
> 
> What makes you think it's only 4 men or was that all you could prove and all she admitted to?


She admitted to, gave me timelines, details, etc. I wasn't pushing her. And like I said, I feel it was like this because she actually changed by that time


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## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> She admitted to, gave me timelines, details, etc. I wasn't pushing her. And like I said, I feel it was like this because she actually changed by that time


She changed by that time, but she was also changed by the adultery itself on a very fundamental level. Psychologically once a serial cheater has tasted this freedom to sleep with several other people, they can never return to a monogamous relationship again and definitely not with the person they betrayed.

Connections have been made in her brain that can never again be disconnected. She's not your wife anymore and by her actions and choices, she can never be that again.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

fido3039 said:


> She admitted to, gave me timelines, details, etc. I wasn't pushing her. And like I said, I feel it was like this because she actually changed by that time


I guess it doesn't matter. But was curious if this happened over a few months or several years. That seven year itch thing is real.


----------



## Andy1001

@fido3039 you know nothing, absofuckinglutely nothing.
You think you know that this is the only time in your marriage that your wife cheated. YOU DONT. 
You think you can believe what she’s telling you. YOU CANT. 
You married a tramp and she showed her true colors. Now she’s afraid she may have lost her breadwinner because that’s all she’s bothered about. 
Get the meanest lawyer you can find and use all the information you have about her to get the best settlement you can.
And then get some counselling to help you understand why you would even consider reconciliation with the town bike.


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## Rob_1

I guess you're just afraid in your head of breaking up the family. You need to realize that it was her that broke the family unit already. Nonetheless, to a man that has self-worth, pride, dignity, self-respect it shouldn't matter the why, when, who, how many times, it should only matter that she did, period. Marriage over immediately. None of that wishy-washy, sad, pathetic mind games rationalizations to justify her actions to stay.


----------



## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> She changed by that time, but she was also changed by the adultery itself on a very fundamental level. Psychologically once a serial cheater has tasted this freedom to sleep with several other people, they can never return to a monogamous relationship again and definitely not with the person they betrayed.
> 
> Connections have been made in her brain that can never again be disconnected. She's not your wife anymore and by her actions and choices, she can never be that again.


This is really something that I am having a hard time coping. I mean, I want to trust, but how can I ? You are giving some good points here regarding psycology that I never thought about.


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## Openminded

The problem with serial cheaters (and my exH was one) is that they rarely change. They’ll promise you anything so you don’t divorce them and they might mean it at the time but the thrill of cheating is a very difficult thing for them to give up. If you stay, you’ll never again trust her and you shouldn’t.


----------



## fido3039

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I guess it doesn't matter. But was curious if this happened over a few months or several years. That seven year itch thing is real.


It happened over the course of a few months


----------



## fido3039

Rob_1 said:


> I guess you're just afraid in your head of breaking up the family. You need to realize that it was her that broke the family unit already. Nonetheless, to a man that has self-worth, pride, dignity, self-respect it shouldn't matter the why, when, who, how many times, it should only matter that she did, period. Marriage over immediately. None of that wishy-washy, sad, pathetic mind games rationalizations to justify her actions to stay.


Yes, I dont care too much about her to be honest, all I care is about my kid, and the trauma this might cause on him in the long run. I dont want to develop hate feelings towards her, but if this is what is going to happen, I am affraid it is what is going to be.


----------



## fido3039

Openminded said:


> The problem with serial cheaters (and my exH was one) is that they rarely change. They’ll promise you anything so you don’t divorce them and they might mean it at the time but the thrill of cheating is a very difficult thing for them to give up. If you stay, you’ll never again trust her and you shouldn’t.


Yes, exactly. But you know what, I dont know why, but we tend always to think that our case is different, and that is what my brain is playing about with me right now.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

fido3039 said:


> This is really something that I am having a hard time coping. I mean, I want to trust, but how can I ? You are giving some good points here regarding psycology that I never thought about.


You can't trust and that is something you will never get past. If she says she needs to stay late at work one day, the first thing you will wonder is who is she sleeping with. If you call her and she can't pick up for some reason, then she must be riding an OM. If she wants to go out with a girlfriend, you will wonder if it's a ruse to meet her paramor. It's a mindfuck really. At some point you will stop caring and just begin to hate her.


----------



## re16

fido3039 said:


> Yes, I dont care too much about her to be honest, all I care is about my kid, and the trauma this might cause on him in the long run. I dont want to develop hate feelings towards her, but if this is what is going to happen, I am affraid it is what is going to be.


If you care for you kid, don't subject him to the turmoil that will inevitably ensue if you try to stay with a cheating wife.


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## fido3039

HEY GUYS, one thing.

One of the things that I dont want to be sorry about in the future I forgot to mention is this: I keep telling myself, if I chose to end it, what if, in the near future, being a year, two, 5 or whatever, what if I ever ask myself "What if I have tried it?" I mean, I dont want to, years from now, be caught with that question, because all I think about is what do I loose by trying? get back to where I am right now ? What do I loose if I give it a try for the sake (initially) of the family and the kid ?


----------



## fido3039

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> You can't trust and that is something you will never get past. If she says she needs to stay late at work one day, the first thing you will wonder is who is she sleeping with. If you call her and she can't pick up for some reason, then she must be riding an OM. If she wants to go out with a girlfriend, you will wonder if it's a ruse to meet her paramor. It's a mindfuck really. At some point you will stop caring and just begin to hate her.


This is something that once I get her proposal, that I am going to spill out. Nothing will be the same, you will live cornered by me, is that what you want ?


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> Yes, I dont care too much about her to be honest, all I care is about my kid, and the trauma this might cause on him in the long run. I dont want to develop hate feelings towards her, but if this is what is going to happen, I am affraid it is what is going to be.


For kids, it is always better to be from a broken home, than living in one.


----------



## jsmart

Wow, hooking up multiple times with 4 different strange men she met at bars? That is some wild poop for a young married mother to do. Protection? Come on, they may have used protection the first time but in their 2nd, 3rd, etc hookups, it is very doubtful. 

Now think you yourself, why does she want to get back with you? Is the welcome mat at mom’s place wearing thin? You know and she knows that none of these guys that were banging her are going to be there for her and your kid. So it’s try to make it work with my baby daddy or it’s single momsville. Is that the woman you want back?


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> HEY GUYS, one thing.
> 
> One of the things that I dont want to be sorry about in the future I forgot to mention is this: I keep telling myself, if I chose to end it, what if, in the near future, being a year, two, 5 or whatever, what if I ever ask myself "What if I have tried it?" I mean, I dont want to, years from now, be caught with that question, because all I think about is what do I loose by trying? get back to where I am right now ? What do I loose if I give it a try for the sake (initially) of the family and the kid ?


I have never ever come across a betrayed husband who regretted leaving, but I've spoken to many who regretted the choice to stay.

Consider the example you are setting for your son if you stay though. You would be showing him that it's okay to be with a woman who has shown you the utmost disrespect. You will also be showing him that it is okay to walk all over someone and face minimal consequences (as your wife would be doing).

From this he will learn, depending on his own disposition, that he could either be a doormat or an abuser, because in either case, there is nothing no real consequences.


----------



## re16

fido3039 said:


> HEY GUYS, one thing.
> 
> One of the things that I dont want to be sorry about in the future I forgot to mention is this: I keep telling myself, if I chose to end it, what if, in the near future, being a year, two, 5 or whatever, what if I ever ask myself "What if I have tried it?" I mean, I dont want to, years from now, be caught with that question, because all I think about is what do I loose by trying? get back to where I am right now ? What do I loose if I give it a try for the sake (initially) of the family and the kid ?


You are going down the wrong path of thinking and it seems like you are committed to accepting life with your cheating wife.

She doesn't respect you, and if you just accept this, you don't respect yourself.

If you don't divorce, you are just working to split more of your assets down the road.

You absolutely need to divorce her.

You keep thinking it is good for your kid, but the reverse is true.

Your wife has shown you who she really is, and you refuse to believe it.


----------



## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> For kids, it is always better to be from a broken home, than living in one.


That is the thing, we never had a broken home, we were a happy family


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> Wow, hooking up multiple times with 4 different strange men she met at bars? That is some wild poop for a young married mother to do. Protection? Come on, they may have used protection the first time but in their 2nd, 3rd, etc hookups, it is very doubtful.
> 
> Now think you yourself, why does she want to get back with you? Is the welcome mat at mom’s place wearing thin? You know and she knows that none of these guys that were banging her are going to be there for her and your kid. So it’s try to make it work with my baby daddy or it’s single momsville. Is that the woman you want back?


Let met clarify: she had sex ONCE over a one night stand with someone she met at a bar. The other guys were all were known (not that it makes any difference anyway). They were introduced to her by a friend.


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## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> That is the thing, we never had a broken home, we were a happy family


I hate to state the obvious, but you have a broken home now. In fact your wife pretty much nuked it and you are considering raising your kid in the toxic ashes.

Come on, be honest. If you met your wife now, knowing she would hook up with random strangers while being married, would you marry her?

If your answer is no, then there is no reason to stay married to her, because who you thought she was is a fantasy of your own mind that never really existed. This is who she is and serial cheaters, well, there's simply no hope there.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> Let met clarify: she had sex ONCE over a one night stand with someone she met at a bar. The other guys were all were known (not that it makes any difference anyway). They were introduced to her by a friend.


It's still 4 men while married to you, you are right, it makes no difference where and how she met them.


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## Rob_1

fido3039 said:


> HEY GUYS, one thing.
> 
> One of the things that I dont want to be sorry about in the future I forgot to mention is this: I keep telling myself, if I chose to end it, what if, in the near future, being a year, two, 5 or whatever, what if I ever ask myself "What if I have tried it?" I mean, I dont want to, years from now, be caught with that question, because all I think about is what do I loose by trying? get back to where I am right now ? What do I loose if I give it a try for the sake (initially) of the family and the kid ?


Dude, listen to yourself. You are continuing with the rationalizations to justify yourself to stay. You don't need anyone permission to stay, if that's what you want. But by the same token, you are showing not just to us but to yourself that you have little self respect and pride as a man. You continue to to justify it by gearing it towards your kid. The first thing you need to get through your head is that a 50/50 co-parenting ,which is the standards these days is much better for your kid, because it's better for kids two happy homes than living in a miserable one. Secrets always tend to eventually some day to come out. Do you think that your kid will thank you some day if he ever finds out the reason why you stayed? I'm telling you it will be quite the contrary, he will lose whatever respect he has for you at that moment. Hopefully you don't teach him and/or he learns from you that accepting (reluctantly or not) infidelity in order to stay married is OK.



fido3039 said:


> *Yes, I dont care too much about her to be honest*, all I care is about my kid


Yeah right, your hesitant, wishy-washy though process is showing that you care about her a lot whole more than what you are telling to yourself or care to admit.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

fido3039 said:


> HEY GUYS, one thing.
> 
> One of the things that I dont want to be sorry about in the future I forgot to mention is this: I keep telling myself, if I chose to end it, what if, in the near future, being a year, two, 5 or whatever, what if I ever ask myself "What if I have tried it?" I mean, I dont want to, years from now, be caught with that question, because all I think about is what do I loose by trying? get back to where I am right now ? What do I loose if I give it a try for the sake (initially) of the family and the kid ?


Well if you really considering reconciliation after all this, you may want to check out SurvivingInfidelity.com. You probably will get as much 2x4s thrown your way as here but atleast they have a board dedicated to reconciliation. But be warned it's a board of misery and pain. They seem to all be staying for the children and half of them get recycled to the divorce section shortly after.

It's your life, you can try just understand the odds suck and if she does it again, it will be your fault then since you knew who she was.


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## syhoybenden

fido3039 said:


> That is the thing, we never had a broken home, we were a happy family


Yeah? Well you sure as hell have a broken home now!


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## BigDaddyNY

fido3039 said:


> Let met clarify: she had sex ONCE over a one night stand with someone she met at a bar. The other guys were all were known (not that it makes any difference anyway). They were introduced to her by a friend.


So a "friend" was finding hook ups for her? Are these guys she knows and this friend still in her life?


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## Lostinthought61

I don't think your wife go find a better PR person than you, you seem to find a way to justify her actions...i say stay with her because you clearly want to have live a cuckold lifestyle, otherwise grow a back bone.


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## Amanhasnoname

fido3039 said:


> Let met clarify: she had sex ONCE over a one night stand with someone she met at a bar. The other guys were all were known (not that it makes any difference anyway). They were introduced to her by a friend.


Something I haven't seen yet in the posts. 
These other married men, have their wives been informed yet.
If not that needs to be done as soon as possible, their wives must be told so they have some choice if they want to be married to POS that carry on like that.
Also what about that lovely 'friend' ? of your wifes who thinks it's a good idea to be introducing f'buddies to your wife, is she married, bet her husband would be delighted to know what his mrs. and her pals get up to on their nights out.....you know what they say, birds of a feather flock together.

Cheaters and enablers need to face strong consequences!


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## Andy1001

fido3039 said:


> HEY GUYS, one thing.
> 
> What do I loose if I give it a try for the sake (initially) of the family and the kid ?


You lose your self respect, your self esteem and your peace of mind. You can never trust your wife again and unless you’re willing to have an open marriage then you need to divorce.
One last thing @fido3039. I don’t expect you to hang around here much longer, you didn’t get the encouragement to reconcile with your wife that you were hoping for.
But I would like to give you a piece of advice.
Tell your wife that she needs to cut off her friend/pimp who was settling her up with these guys. Tell her no contact whatsoever either face to face, phone or social media. Tell her until she does this she’s not to contact you about anything other than your kid but don’t give her any reason to think you’re willing to reconcile. I can guess what her answer will be.


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## sideways

fido3039 said:


> That is the thing, we never had a broken home, we were a happy family


If you were a "happy family" then why would your wife go and have sex with not one, not two, not three but four men in bars?

Here's what you need to be asking yourself. So she wasn't happy or getting intimacy from you during a specific time frame. She's unhappy about this. Ok great. However instead of doing what grown @$$ adults do (communicate with one another and try to sort through it) she decides to act like an animal and do what animals do and that's act on instinct. A desire isn't being met and so I'm going to do anything I have to do in order to get that desire fulfilled.

Your wife has a five year old child. Think about this, after the first time she cheated, was she SO torn up about what she had done (lying and cheating on you her husband and risking BLOWING up your family and what it would do to your child) and thus feel SO guilty that she had done this? Broken her vows? Did she feel like a loser and piece of $hit and a evil human being and a horrible mother and wife? Did she feel SO bad and RIDDLED WITH GUILT that she promised herself that she would NEVER do it again?

Unfortunately, as you've laid out here in your pain, she didn't stop what she was doing, she chose (in her own free volition) to do it a SECOND time, and a THIRD time and a FOURTH time (and there's more than likely more but who's counting at this point).

So moving forward, the thought that will NEVER leave you (even if you decide to give it a go with her) is the next time your wife isn't getting a need met, or is stressed out because of all the things that life throws at you (and trust me part of being a human is dealing with life and the stresses and frustrations that will ALWAYS be there), your wife has something inside her that doesn't do what healthy and mature and rationale and trustworthy people do and that's go to her spouse to talk about it and to try to work through it or to just vent and feel like she's been heard and if it gets too bad then hey let's get into counseling because we as parents need to do EVERYTHING in our power to try and protect our family and provide a safe haven for our child.

Nope. Your wife goes and finds men to have sex with and by doing so puts EVERYTHING that you hold precious at risk all to fulfill a lustful desire. If it was so bad with you and she was so frustrated then just walk away and divorce and then go on the hunt for men to have sex with.

So you'll always be wondering what your wife is doing? Where she is? Who she's with? She said she was just going to the store? She's been gone for a couple of hours I wonder where she really is.

Is this the life that you envisioned when you stood up before God and your family and friends and said your vows and married this woman? If you knew she had this in her before you married her would you have decided to marry her and have a child with her?

I think you know the answer to this.

Life is about the choices we make.

Choose wisely brother.


----------



## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> Let met clarify: she had sex ONCE over a one night stand with someone she met at a bar. The other guys were all were known (not that it makes any difference anyway). They were introduced to her by a friend.


So these are guys in her social circle? That explains them having multiple hookups, and makes it very unlikely that protection was used. 

Btw, that friend that encouraged the destruction of your marriage, needs to go. Also, do you know who these guys are? You don’t want to be in a situation where you’re shaking the hand of a guy who was knowingly banging your wife.


----------



## bobert

fido3039 said:


> HEY GUYS, one thing.
> 
> One of the things that I dont want to be sorry about in the future I forgot to mention is this: I keep telling myself, if I chose to end it, what if, in the near future, being a year, two, 5 or whatever, what if I ever ask myself "What if I have tried it?" I mean, I dont want to, years from now, be caught with that question, because all I think about is what do I loose by trying? get back to where I am right now ? What do I loose if I give it a try for the sake (initially) of the family and the kid ?


Life is full of what if's. If you decide to stay and try, you could be back here in a few years wondering what life would be like if you would have left and that all this **** would have been behind you for x number of years. I stayed (after my wife screwed two men for years and everyone here said to run) and I think about that often. 

If you want some helpful advice, I'd say to read the book "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. It will show you what your wife should be doing and may help you judge her idea of what will fix this. I wouldn't give her that book though. It is good for the unfaithful spouse to read but right now she needs to be figuring this out on her own - not having you hand her the tools. 

You will never forget what she did though, you will never look at her the same as you once did, and you will never trust her the way you once did. All of that is long gone. 

It's also highly unlikely that she told you everything. Cheaters don't confess to everything like that. It's foolish to say you trust her story when you shouldn't be trusting a word that comes out of her mouth.


----------



## fido3039

Andy1001 said:


> You lose your self respect, your self esteem and your peace of mind. You can never trust your wife again and unless you’re willing to have an open marriage then you need to divorce.
> One last thing @fido3039. I don’t expect you to hang around here much longer, you didn’t get the encouragement to reconcile with your wife that you were hoping for.
> But I would like to give you a piece of advice.
> Tell your wife that she needs to cut off her friend/pimp who was settling her up with these guys. Tell her no contact whatsoever either face to face, phone or social media. Tell her until she does this she’s not to contact you about anything other than your kid but don’t give her any reason to think you’re willing to reconcile. I can guess what her answer will be.


Yes, this is one of the things I told her about and she agreed. They are co workers and it is funny, this lady knew me. BUT, let me tell you, I can't blame her, all the blame is on my wife, I don't even know if she was the one pushing for it.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

fido3039 said:


> Yes, this is one of the things I told her about and she agreed. They are co workers and it is funny, this lady knew me. BUT, let me tell you, I can't blame her, all the blame is on my wife, I don't even know if she was the one pushing for it.


So she slept around the office. You must be the talk of the office. If, big if, you want to reconcile she can't work with them anymore and the "friend" has to be gone.


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> So these are guys in her social circle? That explains them having multiple hookups, and makes it very unlikely that protection was used.
> 
> Btw, that friend that encouraged the destruction of your marriage, needs to go. Also, do you know who these guys are? You don’t want to be in a situation where you’re shaking the hand of a guy who was knowingly banging your wife.


I don't know them and I am not interested. They were people from around her work place. They were friends of this girlfriend that she works with. Absolutely, she has to go.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> Yes, this is one of the things I told her about and she agreed. They are co workers and it is funny, this lady knew me. BUT, let me tell you, I can't blame her, all the blame is on my wife, I don't even know if she was the one pushing for it.


Oh, no, you can blame her. Your wife may have stabbed you in the back at least 8 times, but this woman handed her a couple of the knives. She's no friend of your marriage and no friend of yours.


----------



## fido3039

bobert said:


> Life is full of what if's. If you decide to stay and try, you could be back here in a few years wondering what life would be like if you would have left and that all this **** would have been behind you for x number of years. I stayed (after my wife screwed two men for years and everyone here said to run) and I think about that often.
> 
> If you want some helpful advice, I'd say to read the book "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. It will show you what your wife should be doing and may help you judge her idea of what will fix this. I wouldn't give her that book though. It is good for the unfaithful spouse to read but right now she needs to be figuring this out on her own - not having you hand her the tools.
> 
> You will never forget what she did though, you will never look at her the same as you once did, and you will never trust her the way you once did. All of that is long gone.
> 
> It's also highly unlikely that she told you everything. Cheaters don't confess to everything like that. It's foolish to say you trust her story when you shouldn't be trusting a word that comes out of her mouth.


Thanks, I will order the book. I understand the part about trust, but I believe I will never be te same whether with her or not, it has affrected me and will continue no matter who I am with. If I ever choose to, I can't concentrate on her words but actions, she can say anything and I will have a hard time trusting, it is her actions that will tell me otherwise.


----------



## fido3039

BigDaddyNY said:


> So she slept around the office. You must be the talk of the office. If, big if, you want to reconcile she can't work with them anymore and the "friend" has to be gone.


This is something I am considering as well. I am pretty sure this was kept between her and her friend, as she works in Education and with kids, and if they happen to know or suspect anything about this she might get in trouble


----------



## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> Oh, no, you can blame her. Your wife may have stabbed you in the back at least 8 times, but this woman handed her a couple of the knives. She's no friend of your marriage and no friend of yours.


Like I said, I don't know if it was my wife chasing her or not


----------



## fido3039

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Well if you really considering reconciliation after all this, you may want to check out SurvivingInfidelity.com. You probably will get as much 2x4s thrown your way as here but atleast they have a board dedicated to reconciliation. But be warned it's a board of misery and pain. They seem to all be staying for the children and half of them get recycled to the divorce section shortly after.
> 
> It's your life, you can try just understand the odds suck and if she does it again, it will be your fault then since you knew who she was.


Thanks, appreciate it. Will check it out.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> Like I said, I don't know if it was my wife chasing her or not


You try to see the best in people. While normally an admirable character trait, you better check that for now, because in this, that will bite you. You are not playing in the sand-lot now, like it or not, your wife has just drug your backside into the shark tank and you better start seeing that the sharks in there with you are not minnows at all.


----------



## fido3039

BigDaddyNY said:


> So a "friend" was finding hook ups for her? Are these guys she knows and this friend still in her life?


She didn't know these guys, they were introduced by a friend. Yes, they still work together. But like I said, I truly believe it was her chasing them. I even asked her what did she look for on those guys, and she said they just listened to her and that's it.


----------



## GusPolinski

fido3039 said:


> So looking for some advice here. I know for sure the majority of advice will be to "move on", but please, before recommending so, consider the scenario, as this is what I am most confused about. I will try to keep it short.
> 
> 12 years together, 6 married, 5 year old son. So, a month ago I found out my wife cheated on me multiple times with different mens (4 in total). This will surely sound BIG, and it does, but I am going to give some perspective. After I found out, we separated, basically she moved out with our kid. The way I found out was that I checked her phone, and while I did find out that she did, I wasn't sure how many times and with how many mens. I went no contact with her immediately and only talk about the kid.
> 
> So over the last year or so, our relationship deterioted deeply, to the point that I neglected sex to her for the last 6 months or so, this was previous to the end of January. Upon not feeling very well with the situation and at the risk of loosing my family, I started to treat her better - meaning, I would go on date, have more sex, etc. She was accepting that and was feeling comfortable again with me. We had very good times over the next two months or so (until April). Anyway, I noticed a change in her behavior from last year, and it was that she kept using her phone more often, something that she had never done in our years together and this caught my attention. So this got me curious and one night in April I went to check it and found out. At the time I did not confronted her with all the details, I just asked her and she admitted and I asked her to move out and she did. The next day when she moved out, she told me that she wanted to speak with me about the situation and she came home and told me that she was sorry, crying, etc. but I told her we need to keep distance and she left again. She left a lot of her and the kid's clothing at home, mainly due to accommodation and I let her do it until she can find a place.
> 
> Now, over the next couples of weeks of April I kept communication only regarding the kid, she respected that. She never tried to reach me or anything, she respected my boundaries. She is staying at her mother's. Fast forward to April's last Friday, I offered her to keep the kid while she can find a place, so that he is not uncomfortable sleeping elsewhere. I even suggested her that I can keep him and that I will have no issues for her to pick him up whenever she please. This was early in the morning and I did not got a response from her until late evening, when she answered that if I agree, she can come home to discuss this. I told her no, that we should talk in another public place, but she insisted to come so that she can pick up some clothing for her and the kid. I had to agree.
> 
> She came home that day late evening, and we discussed the arrangement, meanwhile she started packing some of her clothes. She tried to somehow include the separation subject into the manner, etc but I kept holding her off, but i couldn't hold it anymore and had to ask her. I asked her why, why, why. I told her the nightmare I have been living in since I found out. We both crumbled, we cried together, etc. she told me she does not wants to leave, she was remorseful, that she wants the opportunity to show me how she has changed and will change, etc. but ultimately I helped her pack her clothing and she left. She texted me that she will wait for me no matter the time, etc.
> 
> I went back to No Contact, but after this day, she started to somehow be more inclined to talk to me. She respected my boundaries still, but was starting to kind of be more communicative and gentle, asking me on some days how I am doing, etc. Obviously, I always had flat out answers as "Fine, Ok, good". So in one of those days she messages me asking me how I am doing in general and how I am doing with her, etc. I couldn't help but told her that I haven't feel any worse in my life, etc. but that I know I will someday feel better. She then proceeded to tell me that she misses me, misses our family, that she loves me, bla bla bla. I told her to cut it off and ignored her, but she insisted. I told her that I wanted her to tell me those things she said in text to me face to face, and that to be prepared to have a clean, honest, and serious conversation with me regarding all that happened.
> 
> So we went ahead and got together in the next day or so and she expressed everything. I asked every detail of the encounters. From October last year until March this year, she had 4 affairs with different mens. The first man she had sex two times with him, the second man 3 times, the third man was a one night stand that she new at a bar and the last man she had sex two times. I asked every detail, etc. Of course, I have no specific way to corroborate this so I trust what she said, as I just let her throw it all out. These months were difficult months during our relationship, but I know nothing actually will justify her actions.
> 
> Now, for the last part, she has shown remorse and I asked her to come up with a plan on how we can fix all this mess, just to see what she would do or think about it. She told me she never had any intentions to leave me, and i know this, since I have always been the breadwinner and those mens knew she was married. She is deeply sorry about breaking the family and how this will affect our kid, but one thing she keeps reminding me is this: And that she wants to do it (get back), but it will not be because of the kid, but because of us, that while she understand his future is important, she will get back to me because of us. I have never had any doubt about her and I know for sure that regarding the timeline at least she is somehow telling the truth, as I did noticed a change in her behavior starting that specific time. She did not have any affair previously that I could tell or that she told me. But while I do want to keep my family, I am not sure I will be able to forget about that. All I worry about is my kid - we were always a happy family, and he misses that. We never had any arguments or anything. We just neglected our sex life for just too much of a time. She insist that she has changed and that she will change and that she will wait and accept that I wont be able to forgive her in a long time, but she wants the opportunity to show me. She has no issues with getting under any condition I may put as in open phone policy, etc. I truly believe her regarding this, because I know for sure that she never thought she was going to get caught, and now that she did, she knows how much she was putting at risks here. But I dont know if I will be ever to see her again like I used to see her. She has not yet come up with the idea of how we can clean this mess and I am waiting for her proposal, but in the meantime I was hoping to get some advice from here. Happy to answer any additional inquiries regarding information as I know I have left a lot out, so if you need some more clarity, let me know. Thanks!


Didn’t bother reading all of that, but I did catch the first and last bits. Since it seems that it’s _you_ who are in need of clarity, here it is —

Serial cheaters don’t stop cheating. Ever.

DNA the kid and file for divorce.


----------



## fido3039

Amanhasnoname said:


> Something I haven't seen yet in the posts.
> These other married men, have their wives been informed yet.
> If not that needs to be done as soon as possible, their wives must be told so they have some choice if they want to be married to POS that carry on like that.
> Also what about that lovely 'friend' ? of your wifes who thinks it's a good idea to be introducing f'buddies to your wife, is she married, bet her husband would be delighted to know what his mrs. and her pals get up to on their nights out.....you know what they say, birds of a feather flock together.
> 
> Cheaters and enablers need to face strong consequences!


Sorry, will not go that route. Not healthy and I wont get anything out from that.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

fido3039 said:


> Sorry, will not go that route. Not healthy and I wont get anything out from that.


Except that you are letting other people live in the shadow of a lie. Maybe your wife should be the one to break the news to them.


----------



## *Deidre*

There’s something called “cognitive dissonance,” which is basically when you have two conflicting beliefs - in this case, about your wife. You want to believe that there’s hope, maybe she has good qualities or says kind things but there are other behaviors that aren’t good…at all. Cognitive dissonance keeps people in toxic relationships all the time. That is why it’s often hard to leave toxic people.

Love shouldn’t look or feel like this, OP. I don’t care what justifications she gives, it’s best to move on.

Cognitive dissonance is rough, but if you start looking at her for who she is now, and not what you wish she’d be or what she says, you’ll be able to divorce her. Sorry though that you find yourself in this situation.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> Sorry, will not go that route. Not healthy and I wont get anything out from that.


I'm sorry you choose to be not only a victim of, but also a willing accomplice to her affairs. If I knew someone knew about what my spouse was doing behind my back with their spouse, but they refused to tell me, I'd knock their teeth out.

Those wives deserve to know and (what will it accomplish?). It will give them their agency back to decide their future with the truth as their weapon and not being kept like dogs who deserve only what their "masters" deem fit for them.


----------



## fido3039

*Deidre* said:


> There’s something called “cognitive dissonance,” which is basically when you have two conflicting beliefs - in this case, about your wife. You want to believe that there’s hope, maybe she has good qualities or says kind things but there are other behaviors that aren’t good…at all. Cognitive dissonance keeps people in toxic relationships all the time. That is why it’s often hard to leave toxic people.
> 
> Love shouldn’t look or feel like this, OP. I don’t care what justifications she gives, it’s best to move on.
> 
> Cognitive dissonance is rough, but if you start looking at her for who she is now, and not what you wish she’d be or what she says, you’ll be able to divorce her. Sorry though that you find yourself in this situation.


Thanks, appreciate it.


----------



## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> I'm sorry you choose to be not only a victim of, but also a willing accomplice to her affairs. If I knew someone knew about what my spouse was doing behind my back with their spouse, but they refused to tell me, I'd knock their teeth out.
> 
> Those wives deserve to know and (what will it accomplish?). It will give them their agency back to decide their future with the truth as their weapon and not being kept like dogs who deserve only what their "masters" deem fit for them.


I already have a full table with all of this, let alone that I could get into judicial problems if I go that route. It doesn't help my situation, I would rather call it a day and that's it. It is no longer my problem.


----------



## colingrant

This comes down to projection and management. How do you project yourself being able to manage what you know? Reconciliation is 100% contingent upon this. Her level of remorse, your ability to forgive and reconcile still anchors on the answer to how to manage the pain and disrespect that comes from what you know or at least think you know. 

It starts with obtaining facts and answers to lots of questions. Case in point. I didn't ask my fiancé why she wanted to be with me following her affair, but she volunteered to tell me. Little did she know she shot the bullet that killed off ANY hope whatsoever. 

She explained her AP was not who she thought she was and was not like me at all. LOL. She thought she was impressing me with compliments, but she fully indicted herself. Her explanation told me IF her AP was who she thought he was, then she'd still be with him. 

When I essentially reversed her logic, she realized she f'd herself. I'll never forget the blank but frantic look on her face. She could not retract words because they were true and doing so would further compromise what little credibility she had already lost. 

Bottom line. Don't hear what you want to hear or what reassures you. That's what wayward spouses are inclined to do, but sadly, betrayed spouses are also inclined to be reassured, hence lose the ability to find holes in their spouses words and actions. 

Be real with yourself. Make sure that words and actions are matched. Don't set yourself up to be artificially influenced by tears, sex and affection. Stay clear of seeking relief from the pain because this is where emotions replace clear thinking. 

You cannot think clear when receiving a BJ or laying in you know what. Unfortunately, it's not possible. Be smart, committed to yourself and kids and think INDEPENDENTLY of the pros and cons of reconciling. But going back to the beginning of this post. What are you capable of living with in 3, 5, 10 or 20 years?


----------



## jsmart

I have to agree with Gus on the serial cheating. Your wife is now comfortable letting guys she barely knows have her. All it takes is to give her a listen ear and a few empty compliments and they get to have the keys to her candy store. So the next time you're not listening in the way she expects or don't load the dishwasher properly, she'll have no problem with having sex with a guy to get her fix.

Also, I suspect that the number of hookups per guy was substantially higher than she’s admitting but even if it was the handful of times per guy, that is psychologically damaging. It will take some serious counseling to fix the damage and even then, the serial cheater that lurks in her can come out.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> I already have a full table with all of this, let alone that I could get into judicial problems if I go that route. It doesn't help my situation, I would rather call it a day and that's it. It is no longer my problem.


There is no judicial problems in disclosing the truth. I'm sorry, but this excuse doesn't fly.


----------



## sideways

fido3039 said:


> Sorry, will not go that route. Not healthy and I wont get anything out from that.


So you have to get something out of it to do what's right? Doing the right thing is only done if it benefits you?


----------



## sideways

Go read the thread by VintageRetro in the private section.

The wife of the man who was messing around with his wife thankfully told VintageRetro. However, she waited a long time to tell him. His wife wound up getting pregnant, and if VR had known sooner he could have broken things off which he eventually did do because cheating was a deal breaker.

He's now divorced and they have a son that came into the world in a broken home. If VR had known what his wife was up to he could have had agency over his own life but that choice was taken away from him because his wife wound up getting pregnant. It's VRs child but go read what he had to go through.

And you don't want to tell these wives of these men (their husbands) who messed around with your wife because you don't have anything to gain by doing so? I mean what the F!!!!!!!!


----------



## fido3039

colingrant said:


> This comes down to projection and management. How do you project yourself being able to manage what you know? Reconciliation is 100% contingent upon this. Her level of remorse, your ability to forgive and reconcile still anchors on the answer to how to manage the pain and disrespect that comes from what you know or at least think you know.
> 
> It starts with obtaining facts and answers to lots of questions. Case in point. I didn't ask my fiancé why she wanted to be with me following her affair, but she volunteered to tell me. Little did she know she shot the bullet that killed off ANY hope whatsoever.
> 
> She explained her AP was not who she thought she was and was not like me at all. LOL. She thought she was impressing me with compliments, but she fully indicted herself. Her explanation told me IF her AP was who she thought he was, then she'd still be with him.
> 
> When I essentially reversed her logic, she realized she f'd herself. I'll never forget the blank but frantic look on her face. She could not retract words because they were true and doing so would further compromise what little credibility she had already lost.
> 
> Bottom line. Don't hear what you want to hear or what reassures you. That's what wayward spouses are inclined to do, but sadly, betrayed spouses are also inclined to be reassured, hence lose the ability to find holes in their spouses words and actions.
> 
> Be real with yourself. Make sure that words and actions are matched. Don't set yourself up to be artificially influenced by tears, sex and affection. Stay clear of seeking relief from the pain because this is where emotions replace clear thinking.
> 
> You cannot think clear when receiving a BJ or laying in you know what. Unfortunately, it's not possible. Be smart, committed to yourself and kids and think INDEPENDENTLY of the pros and cons of reconciling. But going back to the beginning of this post. What are you capable of living with in 3, 5, 10 or 20 years?


Thank you for putting it together so well. Regarding that question, I have only asked her so far: Think about what you want, think it clearly. I know for sure that her intentions were never to leave me, she knows that damn well, I just can't understand how she jumped from one to another, still lingers my mind. But this shows it was never emotional, and thus never intended to leave (being emotional or not, doesn't takes away the horrendous it is). I do have a lot of questions once she comes up with her proposals, that I am going to vent to her. 

Regarding what I am capable of living, all I think right now is having my family together and for the well being of my kid. I know it will not be easy for me to forget, and she knows that. But on the other hand, she says she will put in the work. And like I said initially, what do I have to loose if I chose to path to try it ? I mean, at least I can say I did try it and didn't work out and this is something I dont want to regret in the future.


----------



## sideways




----------



## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> There is no judicial problems in disclosing the truth. I'm sorry, but this excuse doesn't fly.


I know of somebody that got the police called upon because they said they were harrasing them, so I dont want that, I dont need it.


----------



## fido3039

sideways said:


> Go read the thread by VintageRetro in the private section.
> 
> The wife of the man who was messing around with his wife thankfully told VintageRetro. However, she waited a long time to tell him. His wife wound up getting pregnant, and if VR had known sooner he could have broken things off which he eventually did do because cheating was a deal breaker.
> 
> He's now divorced and they have a son that came into the world in a broken home. If VR had known what his wife was up to he could have had agency over his own life but that choice was taken away from him because his wife wound up getting pregnant. It's VRs child but go read what he had to go through.
> 
> And you don't want to tell these wives of these men (their husbands) who messed around with your wife because you don't have anything to gain by doing so? I mean what the F!!!!!!!!


It is not that easy, I dont know them, and I will have to chase them, I know very little about them (didn't ask too much). I can perhaps get their numbers from her. But the thing is I will be calling for more trouble. I dont know how they will get it. If they will come after me or something. I just dont need that. My son needs me.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> It is not that easy, I dont know them, and I will have to chase them, I know very little about them (didn't ask too much). I can perhaps get their numbers from her. But the thing is I will be calling for more trouble. I dont know how they will get it. If they will come after me or something. I just dont need that. My son needs me.


You can't live your life in fear because if fear keeps you from doing what is right, fear becomes the thing that makes an evil man out of you.


----------



## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> You can't live your life in fear because if fear keeps you from doing what is right, fear becomes the thing that makes an evil man out of you.


Yeah, but sometimes, this is easier said than done, in my current situation, for my own sanity I need no more issues


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> Yeah, but sometimes, this is easier said than done, in my current situation, for my own sanity I need no more issues


I know how you feel, I've divorced my cheating wife years ago. Unfortunately it is when life hits you the hardest when it also requires you to dig deep for strength you didn't even know you had.


----------



## sideways

fido3039 said:


> It is not that easy, I dont know them, and I will have to chase them, I know very little about them (didn't ask too much). I can perhaps get their numbers from her. But the thing is I will be calling for more trouble. I dont know how they will get it. If they will come after me or something. I just dont need that. My son needs me.


So again you have to "know" the people in order to do the right thing? Nobody said doing the right and moral thing is ever easy. 

You've experienced the same thing that they have. Betrayal. You're trying to justify in your mind not saying anything because you're trying to protect your wife from consequences that she brought on herself. There's ALWAYS fallout and consequences when standing up to evil and doing the right thing.

These women deserve to know the truth what their cheating husband's have been up to and once you've told them it doesn't matter if they believe you or what they do with the info. All you can control is doing the right thing.

Would you want to be finding out yrs from now that your wife was cheating on you with numerous men and someone knew about it and chose not to tell you about it because they didn't have anything to gain by it??

You say you're so concerned about your son and potentially blowing up his family (which you should). What if you didn't know about your wife's affairs and you then had two more kids and then you found out? It's hard enough it affecting your child you have now but now three kids have to go through their family being blown up? What about the financial aspect of a divorce with three kids instead of just one?


----------



## colingrant

If you are inclined to reconcile, you're best served by seeing how she acts without you telling her you're open to reconciliation. You can and should be neutral and just observing her actions over a significant period before she EARNS your ability to RECONCONSIDER before earning the gift of reconciliation. 

Notice how I differentiate the two. First is solely to consider reconciliation. Once and if she passes that test, then she has to earn the right to reconcile. Don't mix the two up. 

Reconciliation without earning it is like telling your teenage kid they keep their driving privileges after being pulled over and cops find pot in the car. What's the cost to you, her and the marriage if she doesn't have to work ridiculously hard for a significant period? Respect from others is present only if you respect yourself and what you believe in and stay firm with. 

Your post infidelity stance should make her very uncomfortable and unsure of a future with you. If she can withstand this period of uncertainty and still moving mountains then you might have something to work with. If she's not up for the task you know exactly what you have.


----------



## jlg07

fido3039 said:


> No, nothing does. But I am so confused regarding that I know that she ****ed up and it is facing the consequences and for some reason this has make a wake up call on her.


FUking up is her getting REALLY drunk and doing a one night stand --- NOT banging 4 men multiple times.
This was a planned thing that she did -- SHE made that decision, it was NOT a mistake.


----------



## jlg07

fido3039 said:


> This is what I am having a hard time accepting. I mean, i know her deeply and i know she did it for other months only, so basically I am having a hard time accepting that she turned into this and will do it again. Crap


You DO NOT know her -- you have an image of her and who she is. She has now shown you who she REALLY is -- believe her...


----------



## jlg07

fido3039 said:


> I asked every detail, and she confessed. They all knew she was married, according to her.


Those guys don't care if she is married -- they didn't make any vows to you -- SHE DID.


----------



## Amanhasnoname

fido3039 said:


> Sorry, will not go that route. Not healthy and I wont get anything out from that.


You will not be doing it for you to 'get something out of it', you would be doing for the wives and husband who may be blissfully unaware (at the moment) of what type of marriages they are really in...these things generally come out in the end especially in work environments.
I'd rather be told what my spouse was doing so I could make an informed decision on what I wanted to do, rather than be blindsided (maybe years down the line) and maybe even more affairs.


----------



## fido3039

colingrant said:


> If you are inclined to reconcile, you're best served by seeing how she acts without you telling her you're open to reconciliation. You can and should be neutral and just observing her actions over a significant period before she EARNS your ability to RECONCONSIDER before earning the gift of reconciliation.
> 
> Notice how I differentiate the two. First is solely to consider reconciliation. Once and if she passes that test, then she has to earn the right to reconcile. Don't mix the two up.
> 
> Reconciliation without earning it is like telling your teenage kid they keep their driving privileges after being pulled over and cops find pot in the car. What's the cost to you, her and the marriage if she doesn't have to work ridiculously hard for a significant period? Respect from others is present only if you respect yourself and what you believe in and stay firm with.
> 
> Your post infidelity stance should make her very uncomfortable and unsure of a future with you. If she can withstand this period of uncertainty and still moving mountains then you might have something to work with. If she's not up for the task you know exactly what you have.


Thanks. Keep in mind, I have remained up until now no contact with her and with indifference. We had to see each other yesterday because we had an appointment for the kid (school related) and this is where I told her that she NEEDS to come up with an idea on HOW we will get out of this mess for me to EVEN consider getting back together, but that I KNOW that will not happen now. But I want her to work on that plan to see if she will put the work on it. We will probably have another chat sooner or later this week, and I have a lot of questions and inquiries on my list as well, that if she didn't consider those, I will come up with them. She already knows that it is a long road, but based on her words, she is willing to put the work.

I wish I could know if this might be a wake up call for her or something. I really want to believe this, but like I said, there are no words here only actions.


----------



## fido3039

jlg07 said:


> FUking up is her getting REALLY drunk and doing a one night stand --- NOT banging 4 men multiple times.
> This was a planned thing that she did -- SHE made that decision, it was NOT a mistake.


Of course I know, I told her. She just thought she would get away with it; did it the first time and continued doing it until busted. No mistakes there.


----------



## fido3039

jlg07 said:


> You DO NOT know her -- you have an image of her and who she is. She has now shown you who she REALLY is -- believe her...


For over 12 years and nothing, and then this. It is hard to accept.


----------



## fido3039

jlg07 said:


> Those guys don't care if she is married -- they didn't make any vows to you -- SHE DID.


Yes, I know that. I was answering a question whether the guys knew she was married or not. I could care less about the guys in general. They are not the ones to be blamed for here.


----------



## ConanHub

There seems to be a plague of attacks by Martian slvt rays happening.


----------



## sideways

fido3039 said:


> For over 12 years and nothing, and then this. It is hard to accept.


It definitely is hard to wrap your mind around this.


----------



## fido3039

sideways said:


> It definitely is hard to wrap your mind around this.


You can not imagine, man. The lack of sleep is eating me alive. I have so much uncertainty that is killing me. Uncertain on what to do or what to believe. All I want is to somehow get my family back, but I understand it will never be the same, and it will take lots of time and effort.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> You can not imagine, man. The lack of sleep is eating me alive. I have so much uncertainty that is killing me. Uncertain on what to do or what to believe. All I want is to somehow get my family back, but I understand it will never be the same, and it will take lots of time and effort.


With resolve and action comes peace and energy.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

fido3039 said:


> All I want is to somehow get my family back


You would do yourself a favor if you got used to the idea that this ship has sailed.
Your wife did this. Not you. There is no way back. Only misery in moving forward until you rid yourself of the mess.

The best that you can hope for now is a good co-parenting plan, fair treatment in a divorce, a great relationship with your kids, and a possible future Mrs Fido that is truly marriage worthy.

It's really just your choice about _when_ you start walking that path...not if.


----------



## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> From October last year until March this year, she had 4 affairs with different mens. The first man she had sex two times with him, the second man 3 times, the third man was a one night stand that she new at a bar and the last man she had sex two times.


This is what she TOLD you. Remember cheaters lie (a lot!) to minimize, make themselves look better. If she said 4 men it is at least twice that number. If she said sex twice it probably means 10 times. Just double or triple everything she told you and that is likely closer to the truth. So in six months she had let's say eight men altogether 50-60 times at least. Not that it really makes any difference if it was forty men over six months, all nite long with every one of them. For sure she did a whole lot more for them than she has ever or will ever do with you.



fido3039 said:


> She did not have any affair previously *that I could tell or that she told me*


Exactly. In fact you have no idea how many have been inside her from the day you met her. She didn't just all of a sudden become active in October last year.



fido3039 said:


> *We* *She* just neglected our sex life for just too much of a time


So why didn't she amp it up with you? Tell YOU, "I am horny and you need to take care of business"? 



fido3039 said:


> This was the first and ever time she cheated, *I can ensure you this.*


You are deluded if you think that this is the first time. You actually can never know if it is the first or the twentieth time. A polygraph MIGHT get closer to the truth, but why bother?



Evinrude58 said:


> 100% metaphysical certitude that *she will cheat again*


Just contemplate your life going forward. Wondering who she is screwing tonight, or last nigh, or next week?



UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> OMs have gone into hiding and *she is on the brink of losing her breadwinner husband*. Reality hit her like a brick. Fortunately, you've done well so far.


It is called cake eating. She wants her fun with you paying the bills. Has cake and eats it too.

Have you had STD testing done? Are you intimate with her anymore? Get tested and make her get tested now and in six months time. Meanwhile, if you insist on being with her ( how you could stand to is beyond me ), use a condom every single time and then only AFTER her STD testing comes back negative. Those guys she was doing at the bar have high likelyhood of being infected, and for sure THEY didn't use any protection.

Sorry you are here man. Nothing you did caused this, except choosing poorly when you got with her in the first place..


----------



## fido3039

BeyondRepair007 said:


> You would do yourself a favor if you got used to the idea that this ship has sailed.
> Your wife did this. Not you. There is no way back. Only misery in moving forward until you rid yourself of the mess.
> 
> The best that you can hope for now is a good co-parenting plan, fair treatment in a divorce, a great relationship with your kids, and a possible future Mrs Fido that is truly marriage worthy.
> 
> It's really just your choice about _when_ you start walking that path...not if.


I wont forgive doing this to our son, ever


----------



## BeyondRepair007

fido3039 said:


> I wont forgive doing this to our son, ever


Be angry. Be mad as hell for what she did to you, to your family.
Let it fuel your next steps to remove this person from your life.

Sunny days await, but the road to get there is long and hard.
Let your (non-violent) anger fuel the trip.


----------



## sideways

fido3039 said:


> You can not imagine, man. The lack of sleep is eating me alive. I have so much uncertainty that is killing me. Uncertain on what to do or what to believe. All I want is to somehow get my family back, but I understand it will never be the same, and it will take lots of time and effort.


Um yes I can "imagine" because I lived it myself as have countless others here on TAM.

One thing I can tell you, when you look back at this moment, you're going to want to know that you handled this clusterf**k out of dignity and respect for yourself and that you didn't make decisions out of fear.

That's why me and others on here have been telling you that you need to let these women know about their cheating husband's. Trust me on this if you don't it's going to haunt you for the rest of your life and you don't get a do-over.

Remember these same men that messed around with your wife more than likely have messed around before and will continue to do so. They're also more than likely not practicing safe sex. These wives are having sex with their husbands and are totally in the dark knowing that their cheating husband's have been with other women and all the potential diseases they could be giving them.

To be blunt, don't these women have the right to know who they choose to be intimate with and even more importantly how safe they are (health wise) doing so?


----------



## Diana7

fido3039 said:


> It was a period of time when I felt depressed and angry towards her with no good reasons.


There must have been a reason.


----------



## Diana7

Heartbreaking for you and your son, but its impossible how to see she can ever be trusted again after 4 affairs. What happens if you go through another bad patch? I could sort of understand it a bit more more if it had been with just one guy, but 4? People she knew nothing about and could have had give her and you an STD?


----------



## Marc878

Sorry man but many come here thinking their situation is unique and different. They aren’t. 

You like a lot are looking for a magic fix. There isn’t one. Read up on serial cheaters.

You can’t fix her. Infidelity is a lifelong gift. 

It sounds like she’s found out how hard it is trying to make it on her own and is looking to get her plan B back. Nothing uncommon.


----------



## fido3039

Rus47 said:


> This is what she TOLD you. Remember cheaters lie (a lot!) to minimize, make themselves look better. If she said 4 men it is at least twice that number. If she said sex twice it probably means 10 times. Just double or triple everything she told you and that is likely closer to the truth. So in six months she had let's say eight men altogether 50-60 times at least. Not that it really makes any difference if it was forty men over six months, all nite long with every one of them. For sure she did a whole lot more for them than she has ever or will ever do with you.
> 
> 
> Exactly. In fact you have no idea how many have been inside her from the day you met her. She didn't just all of a sudden become active in October last year.
> 
> 
> So why didn't she amp it up with you? Tell YOU, "I am horny and you need to take care of business"?
> 
> 
> You are deluded if you think that this is the first time. You actually can never know if it is the first or the twentieth time. A polygraph MIGHT get closer to the truth, but why bother?
> 
> 
> Just contemplate your life going forward. Wondering who she is screwing tonight, or last nigh, or next week?
> 
> 
> It is called cake eating. She wants her fun with you paying the bills. Has cake and eats it too.
> 
> Have you had STD testing done? Are you intimate with her anymore? Get tested and make her get tested now and in six months time. Meanwhile, if you insist on being with her ( how you could stand to is beyond me ), use a condom every single time and then only AFTER her STD testing comes back negative. Those guys she was doing at the bar have high likelyhood of being infected, and for sure THEY didn't use any protection.
> 
> Sorry you are here man. Nothing you did caused this, except choosing poorly when you got with her in the first place..


I need to point out a few things you said: she has sex ONCE with a guy she met at a bar. The other 3 guys, two of them got introduced by her friend, and one of them by one of their sister. I never said all them were at a bar. I got myself an STD and I am clean. I asked her to do the same. The reason I said this is the first time she did this is because I know how her behaviour changed from October, she turned into a different person. Of course I have to believe what she said.


----------



## fido3039

Diana7 said:


> Heartbreaking for you and your son, but its impossible how to see she can ever be trusted again after 4 affairs. What happens if you go through another bad patch? I could sort of understand it a bit more more if it had been with just one guy, but 4? People she knew nothing about and could have had give her and you an STD?


This is actually my thinking to be honest. Four freaking mens, I told her she does have mental issues and she agrees


----------



## fido3039

Diana7 said:


> There must have been a reason.


I was depressed due to work related issue, I turned my anger against her


----------



## fido3039

Marc878 said:


> It sounds like she’s found out how hard it is trying to make it on her own and is looking to get her plan B back. Nothing uncommon.


Told her this, her answer: It was never my intention to leave you. And you could tell, there was never any emotion on that. She even told me that after the couple of times she just stopped answering these guys.


----------



## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> *You can not imagine, man*. The lack of sleep is eating me alive. I have so much uncertainty that is killing me. *Uncertain on what to do or what to believe. *All I want is to somehow get my family back, but *I understand it will never be the same*, and it will take lots of time and effort.


I personally can't imagine, but a lot of people on here advising you have walked the same road you are now on and they came out the other side of being tied to a lying cheating wayward and are doing fine. Several will tell you they are thankful the found out and got rid of the wayward as quickly as they did.

Just read through the threads on this site, and you will see that the betrayed who took resolute action to cut the cancer off did the best in the shortest amount of time. Look up @VintageRetro thread for example. 

As far as what to believe, believe NOTHING of what your WW tells you. Nothing. Just assume the worst and that is likely not as bad as the reality.

There seem to be a very few people who somehow managed to white-knuckle through a single instance of infidelity to remain married. But multiple encounters with multiple men? 

Like you wrote, it will never be the same. IMO you need to make a new life for yourself and kids, without your "wife" in it.


----------



## Marc878

fido3039 said:


> I need to point out a few things you said: she has sex ONCE with a guy she met at a bar. The other 3 guys, two of them got introduced by her friend, and one of them by one of their sister. I never said all them were at a bar. I got myself an STD and I am clean. I asked her to do the same. The reason I said this is the first time she did this is because I know how her behaviour changed from October, she turned into a different person. Of course I have to believe what she said.


Her friends and family obviously help her out with other men. Jeeze man!!!!


----------



## Marc878

fido3039 said:


> Told her this, her answer: It was never my intention to leave you. And you could tell, there was never any emotion on that. She even told me that after the couple of times she just stopped answering these guys.


Sorry but cheaters tend to lie a lot. You’d be wise to compare her words to her actions.


----------



## Diana7

fido3039 said:


> This is actually my thinking to be honest. Four freaking mens, I told her she does have mental issues and she agrees


I think she has moral issues not mental issues.


----------



## Livvie

Your wife is comfortable having one night stands with many different men. 

There are even single women who don't **** strangers!

Think about that. 

You don't need to feel guilty about divorcing a woman who has the kinds of morals she does.


----------



## sideways

fido3039 said:


> Told her this, her answer: It was never my intention to leave you. And you could tell, there was never any emotion on that. She even told me that after the couple of times she just stopped answering these guys.


Think about her statement. "it was never my intention to leave you"??

So in her mind it was no big deal to just step out of the marriage with FOUR different men (that you know of) in order to satisfy her lustful desires? I mean it's OK because ("I wasn't going to leave you").

Like this statement should bring some comfort to you?

You have more than just a cheating wife. You have someone who is CLUELESS when it comes to boundaries and marriage and even more importantly understanding the difference between right and wrong.

You say twelve years and then bam? I say more than likely she's cheated before and with this line of thinking she's going to cheat again.

That's the other thing you need to consider. They say that reconciliation can take up to 2-5 yrs to potentially get the marriage to a reasonable place of healing.

Your wife has WAY more going on then just cheating on you. You see how difficult this is to wrap your mind around all of this. Well you have no idea the road that awaits you and your wife. Your wife doesn't think like most people and she's looking at years of therapy to find out what's going on with her and how to rewire her brain. You up for this? You all in on this and even her going through this extensive therapy that she'll ever get to a place where she could be worthy of the gift of reconciliation and to show you that she could be a safe partner??

It's one thing dealing with all of this right now. Imagine being at the same place five, ten, fifteen yrs from now. Like I said choose wisely.

People have overcome infidelity. There's examples here on TAM. However serial cheaters are an entire different clusterf*ck. Not saying that people with serial cheating can't get through it but it's very VERY tough and very rare.


----------



## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> Yeah, but sometimes, this is easier said than done, in my current situation, for my own sanity I need no more issues


It is real simple. Have your wayward wife place calls on speaker phone to the wives of each of her OMs. Have her tell each wife what their husband did. You just listen. One of the conditions for reconciliation she claims to want is to make things right with people she has wronged. 

You have said nothing, except to lay out one of many conditions for her.


----------



## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> Of course I have to believe what she said.


Why????


----------



## Evinrude58

She had no intention of leaving you. I believe that! Maybe the only thing true she’s told you.
Nobody wants to pay the bills, fix flat tires, and kill spiders for a heartless town bicycle that is out having meaningless NSA sex with multiple guys. They’d have to be stupid.

do mmm So my question for you is…… WHY do you want to? You love Her? No, you love who you wished her to be. Your son? No, there’s plenty of healthy kids that turn out ok with divorced parents. There won’t be a strong son very likely, if he is not shown a strong man as a father., Show him one.


----------



## fido3039

sideways said:


> Think about her statement. "it was never my intention to leave you"??
> 
> So in her mind it was no big deal to just step out of the marriage with FOUR different men (that you know of) in order to satisfy her lustful desires? I mean it's OK because ("I wasn't going to leave you").
> 
> Like this statement should bring some comfort to you?
> 
> You have more than just a cheating wife. You have someone who is CLUELESS when it comes to boundaries and marriage and even more importantly understanding the difference between right and wrong.
> 
> You say twelve years and then bam? I say more than likely she's cheated before and with this line of thinking she's going to cheat again.
> 
> That's the other thing you need to consider. They say that reconciliation can take up to 2-5 yrs to potentially get the marriage to a reasonable place of healing.
> 
> Your wife has WAY more going on then just cheating on you. You see how difficult this is to wrap your mind around all of this. Well you have no idea the road that awaits you and your wife. Your wife doesn't think like most people and she's looking at years of therapy to find out what's going on with her and how to rewire her brain. You up for this? You all in on this and even her going through this extensive therapy that she'll ever get to a place where she could be worthy of the gift of reconciliation and to show you that she could be a safe partner??
> 
> It's one thing dealing with all of this right now. Imagine being at the same place five, ten, fifteen yrs from now. Like I said choose wisely.
> 
> People have overcome infidelity. There's examples here on TAM. However serial cheaters are an entire different clusterf*ck. Not saying that people with serial cheating can't get through it but it's very VERY tough and very rare.


Thanks. I really appreciate those inputs.


----------



## fido3039

Rus47 said:


> Why????


I have nothing I can use to corroborate only her word.


----------



## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> She had no intention of leaving you. I believe that! Maybe the only thing true she’s told you.
> Nobody wants to pay the bills, fix flat tires, and kill spiders for a heartless town bicycle that is out having meaningless NSA sex with multiple guys. They’d have to be stupid.
> 
> do mmm So my question for you is…… WHY do you want to? You love Her? No, you love who you wished her to be. Your son? No, there’s plenty of healthy kids that turn out ok with divorced parents. There won’t be a strong son very likely, if he is not shown a strong man as a father., Show him one.


To be honest, it is a good question, do I love her ? I dont really do right now, I rather feel some anger towards her. All I care about is my son right now. It is the only thing holding me back together.


----------



## Evinrude58

Wouldn’t you want your son to see you with a normal woman of good character that treats you well and him too?
It’s really not wise to stay married to a woman like you have discovered yourself married to. 
it’s not like you really have a choice anyway. One day she will meet some idiot that is willing to take her off your hands and seems to have a “nicer lifestyle” and she’ll leave you.
Just take the pain now, and move on rather than take pain for years, and be forced to move on.


----------



## ConanHub

Just out of curiosity....
How would she feel about you parking your "car" in several other women's "carports"?

She obviously didn't think using her birth canal like a public restroom to service men's relief was a big deal.

Honestly dude, the woman you've described is just a bit disgusting.

Has she sought therapy?

Even the majority of cheaters would be cringing at her behavior.

You know it's bad when most faithless spouses look at your wife and say "nasty!".


----------



## Marc878

fido3039 said:


> I have nothing I can use to corroborate only her word.


Sorry man but look at her words versus her actions. Right now she’s in self protection mode.
Looking for a soft spot to land. 
you can only be a chump if you allow it.


----------



## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> Wouldn’t you want your son to see you with a normal woman of good character that treats you well and him too?
> It’s really not wise to stay married to a woman like you have discovered yourself married to.
> it’s not like you really have a choice anyway. One day she will meet some idiot that is willing to take her off your hands and seems to have a “nicer lifestyle” and she’ll leave you.
> Just take the pain now, and move on rather than take pain for years, and be forced to move on.


Don't get me wrong, she is an excellent and caring mother


----------



## ConanHub

fido3039 said:


> Don't get me wrong, she is an excellent and caring mother


You need to alter your definition.

My wife is an excellent and caring mother.

Your wife is a sausage vacuum.


----------



## sokillme

Sounds to me you hesitation is brought on by a classic "sunk cost fallacy". She cheated 4 times, what kind of example are you setting for your kids if you stay. Yes it's scary, but that is not a good reason to stay.

Your wife has actively cheated on the father of her children 4 times, therefor put the emotional, financial safety of her children at risk. By any metric she is a terrible Mother.

Dude stop wasting your time, you deserve better. Alone is better.


----------



## fido3039

ConanHub said:


> Just out of curiosity....
> How would she feel about you parking your "car" in several other women's "carports"?
> 
> She obviously didn't think using her birth canal like a public restroom to service men's relief was a big deal.
> 
> Honestly dude, the woman you've described is just a bit disgusting.
> 
> Has she sought therapy?
> 
> Even the majority of cheaters would be cringing at her behavior.
> 
> You know it's bad when most faithless spouses look at your wife and say "nasty!".


I haven't ask, but I am pretty sure that she will accept anything I put as a condition right now. She recognized that she needs it sooner than later (therapy).


----------



## fido3039

ConanHub said:


> You need to alter your definition.
> 
> My wife is an excellent and caring mother.
> 
> Your wife is a sausage vacuum.


I wanted to make a point that she failed as a wife, but as a mother, she is a caring mother for her child


----------



## fido3039

sokillme said:


> Sounds to me you hesitation is brought on by a classic "sunk cost fallacy". She cheated 4 times, what kind of example are you setting for your kids if you stay. Yes it's scary, but that is not a good reason to stay.
> 
> Your wife has actively cheated on the father of her children 4 times, therefor put the emotional, financial safety of her children at risk. By any metric she is a terrible Mother.
> 
> Dude stop wasting your time, you deserve better. Alone is better.


It is so hard for me to delete 12 years of marriage. I can feel so sorry about my kid. Really, I can't hold this anymore. I dont even know If i am gonna make it. Not seeing my son everyday is killing me.


----------



## fido3039

Wish I could be told that this could be a wake up call for her, we never had any infidelity issues before, I never doubted. She was always open with her phone, only recently (back in October) she started to behave differently. I want to believe people could change, but it seems like everyone agrees that they cannot.


----------



## ConanHub

fido3039 said:


> I wanted to make a point that she failed as a wife, but as a mother, she is a caring mother for her child


I'm trying to get you to realize your wife is extremely messed up and in need of professional help and, no she is not a good mother.

Good mother's don't become the town bike especially when already married.

She failed as a mother as well and you do need to realize that.


----------



## SunCMars

Evinrude58 said:


> 2x4: Sorry, it’s not the first time. You’re so willing to overlook the facts to settle the problem of cognitive dissonance, that you can’t even count. Bro, she’s cheated 4 times.
> 
> this is a different number than “first”.
> 
> please think about what you’re having to do to wrap your head around this because there’s no logic in your decision. Mental gymnastics at its best. Don’t do this to yourself.


Sorry Ev, your adding machine is broken.

If you total the sexual encounters with each of these nasty dudes, it adds up to 8.

This was no mistake on her part.

I believe she said, that she did not think she would get caught.


What did she find out after doing this to her family?

That no decent man would have her, and support her in the style she was accustomed to....not after learning what she had done.

Yes, OP is her meal-ticket.

The others were cheap dates, and only offering up that gooey cream for her naughty-latte.


----------



## snerg

fido3039 said:


> To be honest, it is a good question, do I love her ? I dont really do right now, I rather feel some anger towards her. All I care about is my son right now. It is the only thing holding me back together.


You love the idea of her.
You love the idea of being married to her.

What you need to have is respect for your self to not allow her to treat you like this.

While I realize it's easy to armchair quarterback and tell you what to do, you do need to separate and get away from the person that has hurt you so.
1) Do not make someone a priority, who does not make you a priority
2) love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable

Reconciliation is always possible. But you will never get back to where you were.
It will ALWAYS be there. You will never forget what they did to you. 
You will never forget how you felt that day.
Every time you look into you spouse's eyes you will remember




fido3039 said:


> I wanted to make a point that she failed as a wife, but as a mother, she is a caring mother for her child


SO caring that she risked blowing up the family unit for her pleasure?

Stop making excuses for her actions.


----------



## Marc878

fido3039 said:


> Don't get me wrong, she is an excellent and caring mother


Sorry but excellent caring mother’s don’t destroy their families. You need to wake up to facts and reality.


----------



## Marc878

fido3039 said:


> It is so hard for me to delete 12 years of marriage. I can feel so sorry about my kid. Really, I can't hold this anymore. I dont even know If i am gonna make it. Not seeing my son everyday is killing me.


Sorry but being a martyr for anyone won’t get you much. It’s your life. You do get to chose how you live it.


----------



## sokillme

fido3039 said:


> It is so hard for me to delete 12 years of marriage. I can feel so sorry about my kid. Really, I can't hold this anymore. I dont even know If i am gonna make it. Not seeing my son everyday is killing me.


My friend. Almost every single person who was in your situation that divorced felt the same exact the same way. For every single one of those people it was a very hard thing to do. Some had been married longer, some had their entire fortune including businesses tied up. They just found the courage to do the healthy thing.

Remember courage is not the absence of fear or pain, it's feeling those things and moving forward.

She has cheated on you 4 times, this isn't even like workplace affair that she feel into. The amount of times shows that she is a serial cheater, this means it a problem of her nature. That doesn't change without an Olympian level effort. I'm sorry doesn't cut it. For your own well being you must accept this, if you don't you will continue to get hurt and in the process that will hurt your kids.

Listen, I don't like having to write that, but it's the truth.

You also shouldn't discount that your life may even be better. Generally speaking people who act like your wife are not good spouses, because the self centeredness and selfishness that allows them to cheat is present in all aspects of their life. You probably just don't have the context yet to see this, often the spouse getting cheated on is too close to see it or any of their cheating partners actions.

I wasn't married but I did propose and in my mind at that time my heart was at the peak and fullness of being in love with the girl who I found out had been cheating on me just 2 weeks later. Walking away was the hardest, and most painful thing I ever had to do. It was also the most courageous. I was convinced that I would never love again but I knew I had to do it. Turns out I was wrong. Here I am almost 2 decades later married to someone else, knowing without a doubt that my life was better off. Moving on set my whole life up. Learning, even afraid, to still move forward empowered me in all aspects of my life. It helped me be a better husband too.

Again I am sorry dude. It sucks. Scream, mourn, cry, do all the things you must, but find your courage to move on, and then eventually when you heal enough, find your courage to have hope. Because there IS HOPE. It's just that it's probably not with her.

You will have joy again, but you have to start protecting yourself so you can heal enough to feel that.


----------



## Diceplayer

fido3039 said:


> Yeah, but sometimes, this is easier said than done, in my current situation, for my own sanity I need no more issues


Sir, EVERYTHING is easier said than done. I just don't get it. Over and over again I see these weak men, coming here and crying about their wives cheating on them, getting good advise from those who have been there, and then crying and whining and complaining that it's just too hard. No wonder their wives are out screwing other men.


fido3039 said:


> Don't get me wrong, she is an excellent and caring mother


Oh, well why didn't you say so. That makes all the difference in the world. I guess she really is quite a catch. Have you ever heard of a guy named Adolf Hitler? Ole Adolf had a dog, he had a girlfriend, he was a decent painter, and he even wrote a book. All nice qualities in a man. Yet he murdered six million people. He was the vilest of human beings and yet even he had some good qualities. I just don't get it. I'm out of this one.


----------



## fido3039

sokillme said:


> My friend. Almost every single person who was in your situation that divorced felt the same exact the same way. For every single one of those people it was a very hard thing to do. Some had been married longer, some had their entire fortune including businesses tied up. They just found the courage to do the healthy thing.
> 
> Remember courage is not the absence of fear or pain, it's feeling those things and moving forward.
> 
> She has cheated on you 4 times, this isn't even like workplace affair that she feel into. The amount of times shows that she is a serial cheater, this means it a problem of her nature. That doesn't change without an Olympian level effort. I'm sorry doesn't cut it. For your own well being you must accept this, if you don't you will continue to get hurt and in the process that will hurt your kids.
> 
> Listen, I don't like having to write that, but it's the truth.
> 
> You also shouldn't discount that your life may even be better. Generally speaking people who act like your wife are not good spouses, because the self centeredness and selfishness that allows them to cheat is present in all aspects of their life. You probably just don't have the context yet to see this, often the spouse getting cheated on is too close to see it or any of their cheating partners actions.
> 
> I wasn't married but I did propose and in my mind at that time my heart was at the peak and fullness of being in love with the girl who I found out had been cheating on me just 2 weeks later. Walking away was the hardest, and most painful thing I ever had to do. It was also the most courageous. I was convinced that I would never love again but I knew I had to do it. Turns out I was wrong. Here I am almost 2 decades later married to someone else, knowing without a doubt that my life was better off. Moving on set my whole life up. Learning, even afraid, to still move forward empowered me in all aspects of my life. It helped me be a better husband too.
> 
> Again I am sorry dude. It sucks. Scream, mourn, cry, do all the things you must, but find your courage to move on, and then eventually when you heal enough, find your courage to have hope. Because there IS HOPE. It's just that it's probably not with her.
> 
> You will have joy again, but you have to start protecting yourself so you can heal enough to feel that.


Thanks, really good perspective here.


----------



## fido3039

Marc878 said:


> Sorry but being a martyr for anyone won’t get you much. It’s your life. You do get to chose how you live it.


Yeah, I was just trying to explain that I just can't ghost her and thats it. This will take time, pain, etc.


----------



## fido3039

snerg said:


> SO caring that she risked blowing up the family unit for her pleasure?


This is something that I am sure will haunt her for life.


----------



## SunCMars

ConanHub said:


> There seems to be a plague of attacks by Martian slvt rays happening.


No, those x-rated rays are from _Neptune!

Saturn_ shoots those rays that freeze men's balls, making them ****-wuzzies!


----------



## ConanHub

SunCMars said:


> No, those x-rated rays are from _Neptune!
> 
> Saturn_ shoots those rays that freeze men's balls, making them ****-wuzzies!


Ahh. The Neptunian propaganda machine has done good work.

Mars has taken all the blame for this dastardly device.


----------



## Zedd

fido3039 said:


> This is something that I am sure will haunt her for life.


Disagree, she'll probably compartementalize it and move on and it'll just be "that bad thing she did" like any random bad thing you did as a teenager.


----------



## Marc878

fido3039 said:


> Yeah, I was just trying to explain that I just can't ghost her and thats it. This will take time, pain, etc.


I know two who run a tight no contact. They have younger kids in grade school. Communication is text or email. Kids only.

It sounds like you’re trying to maintain control over what you have no control over. All you’re accomplishing is keeping yourself bound.


----------



## Marc878

fido3039 said:


> Yeah, I was just trying to explain that I just can't ghost her and thats it. This will take time, pain, etc.


Not true. You can coparent successfully. You have your time she has hers. Limit contact to email or text. Kids only.
keep everything separate. Holidays, birthdays, etc. pickups/drop offs only take a few minutes. Kids will adjust.
Right now you are keeping yourself in this by making excuses. You do have a choice.


----------



## Marc878

fido3039 said:


> This is something that I am sure will haunt her for life.


You need to stop projecting your thoughts/feeling onto her. Many get into the I love her so she must love me too. Nope, her actions tell you everything you need to know.


----------



## Evinrude58

Trying to figure out how she was being a good mother whilst out at bars banging whatever dude showed interest? Or what kind of married woman/mother has friends that help her hook up with other dudes. These hookups must be fast and furious…. She’s back at hone mothering kids….. I just have my doubts.


----------



## gr8ful1

fido3039 said:


> but as a mother, she is a caring mother for her child


I’m sorry bro, but NOBODY’S definition of a good mother is screwing 4 other men (at least) countless times. Why can’t you see this? A good mother does NOT put the welfare of her kids at risk, does not put their mental health at risk, their financial situation at risk etc. I get it - she’s “nice” with the kids when you see her interacting with them. But you need to get it thru your skull that she WAS willing to directly risk the wellbeing of your kids in a HUGE WAY just to satisfy her lusts.

That’s it right there. Does a “good mother” massively risk the wellbeing of their children to satisfy her lusts???


----------



## Tested_by_stress

You would have to have absolutely zero self esteem or self worth to take someone Ike her back OP. 4 different guys ? There's a word for a woman like her. Rhymes with door.


----------



## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> I have nothing I can use to corroborate only her word.


And her word is worthless. QED. So why would you believe anything she says? So whatever she says, just assume thw opposite is true.


----------



## ElOtro

fido3039 said:


> No, wait. Her intentions were NEVER to leave me


THAT, to leave you, would have been (instead of the worse) a choice for her own dignity and mainly an attitude of some respect for you as a man.
Not always enough, of course, but that basic admirative respect is a needed factor for love, the specific kind of love between women and men.
So, please, do not take her claim as a redeeming factor.
To do it is to validate that "family love" can replace being in love.
IMO a poor and sad worldview.


----------



## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> It is so hard for me to *delete 12 years of marriage*. I can feel so sorry about my kid. Really, I can't hold this anymore. I dont even know If i am gonna make it. Not seeing my son everyday is killing me.


*She* deleted your 12 years of marriage. You had nothing to do with it. And you cant fix her, she is badly broken. Likely always has been broken. You are going to make it. But not with her dragging you down. The only reason you should feel sorry for your kid is who his mother is.


----------



## fido3039

Thanks guys, appreciate all feedback, please do understand that harsh comments do nothing good when one feels the way I am, I d anyway appreciate them


----------



## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> *Wish* I could be told that this could be a wake up call for her, *we never had any infidelity issues before*, *I never doubted.* She was always open with her phone, only recently (back in October) she started to behave differently. I* want to believe* people could change, but it seems like everyone agrees that they cannot.


What you write reminds me of magical thinking. You need to deal with reality, not wishes or beliefs.


----------



## ElOtro

fido3039 said:


> Of course I have to believe what she said.


You HAVE to?


----------



## Rob_1

By now we all know that it's all semantics. OP whether he wants to accept it or not, he already made up his mind. He will take her back. He just doesn't have what it takes, to have the courage and conviction do do what he knows what's right.

He's just huffing and puffing to her, but in the end he'll take her back, but as a passive-agressive partner with the frequent outbursts as we all have seem it here thousands of times with men like OP.

This will fester in the relationship until eventually she says to herself "I had enough " and either starts cheating again or just have an "exit affair "; which are the eventual result.

I don't think that I'm wrong based on the countless cases just like this OP.


----------



## ElOtro

Diana7 said:


> I think she has moral issues not mental issues.


IMO and just IMO and rather than individual or commanded all the moral code of a couple is contained in being fiercely in love.
All other sources of morals may be good but without the team one they become IMO poor sad simulacra of what is needed.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

fido3039 said:


> This is actually my thinking to be honest. Four freaking mens, I told her she does have mental issues and she agrees


It isn't mental issues. She did it because it felt good and she wanted to. That trumped any and everything else including you and her child. It is pure selfishness. The excitement and sexual satisfaction was more important than her family, so much so she did it knowing full well she could be throwing it all away.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

fido3039 said:


> Don't get me wrong, she is an excellent and caring mother


No she isn't, see my previous post. She was willing to throw you both in the trash for sex with a BUNCH of guys she barely knew or was a complete stranger.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

fido3039 said:


> Wish I could be told that this could be a wake up call for her, we never had any infidelity issues before, I never doubted. She was always open with her phone, only recently (back in October) she started to behave differently. I want to believe people could change, but it seems like everyone agrees that they cannot.


It isn't impossible. The question is, is it worth the risk. She basically went on a sex binge with a bunch of strange men. Are you sure you are willing to take the risk that she has changed? It is certainly an option for you, but consider what your life will be like forever worrying about what she is doing when you can't see her. She would have a long road ahead of her to do what is needed, and sadly you may never get over it and it will end anyway.


----------



## Asterix

There are a couple of things that I'd say/suggest.



fido3039 said:


> she was remorseful


LOL 

I hope that you are old enough, not to believe those words. 

Please look up the difference between remorse and regret. What I see here is your garden variety regret after getting caught. 

You also need to realize that, had you not checked the phone and had you not asked, it's very likely that you would have never know. I don't think she had any plans to come clean. Which means that she was perfectly okay with lying to your face every single day for a long time to come. 

If you guys really had issues with sex/dead bedrooms, then the least that she could have done is to talk to you about it and expressed her needs in the relationship. Instead she chose to go out and sleep with four different people at least. 

Another aspect here, apart from the "to have and to hold" part which she reneged on with her cheating, what she did is also worse. She focused her energies towards her extra marital affairs which likely starved your relationship with her. So, she's the one to blame for that. 

I dislike this analogy, but it does come up often. All those guys knew that she was married and most importantly SHE KNEW that she was married. She went out and cheated anyway. She gave the milk away for free to these guys without any commitment while you had to buy to cow that didn't give you milk (for the duration that you described). I think she got off on the power trip because she was married and sleeping with guys while stiffing you of affection and sexual intimacy. She didn't consider the possibility that by her actions, she's burning down the barn and the calf won't have a place to stay. Should you decide to divorce, DON"T let her guilt trip by saying that YOU are making the choice which would result in your son not having a two parent house. She should have thought of all the possible consequences before cheating. Which again brings me to the idea that she got off on the power trip that she was pulling a fast one on you. 

What she did was not just one incident. She went out, planned and made efforts to meet with at least four guys. That does not show compassion towards you.

So, now she's acting contrite because she now realizes she forked up and she may possibly need to spend a good chunk of her life as a single mother with a history of infidelity. So, she's saying the things that she needs to say for her to have a possibility of not having to give up her comfortable lifestyle. Whatever she's doing is not for you, but for her own sake. I don't think she's taking your needs into consideration here.


----------



## jsmart

@fido3039 you mentioned that she had changed a lot while she was having those affairs. Can you clarify how? Was she cold and indifferent towards you. Did she pick fights over very petty things? Did the sex and affection stop. Was she developing a cocky, I’m all that attitude? 

Like others have said, your wife is not a good mother. She has put your kids family stability at risk. Now you’re kid will grow up in a broken home or in an intact family with a broken hearted dad. What if she got pregnant? She used protection?Please. What if one of these guys was a psycho who went after her for cutting off his free sex? What if one of these guys gave her a std, that she could have past to you and maybe to your kid through a kiss. ( You know there was more than just PIV sex on the menu). Recently a WW in NY was cut up and stuffed in bag by a psycho OM who didn’t want to be cut off. We have a thread in the private section of a BH who ended up divorcing his wife who caught an std. I’ve read threads of a BH who’s WW got pregnant by OM. All of those risk point to a woman that puts being a mother way down in importance.


----------



## Rus47

Asterix said:


> she may possibly need to spend a good chunk of her life as a single mother with a history of infidelity.


I believe @fido3039 said “friend” who was lining up the men for his wife's “ awakening”and three of the men all work with his WW? At a school? If so his WW is for sure the item for discussion where she works? Every horny male in the place knows she was DTF any male in March. And they are hoping she still is, so will be sniffing around from now on.

So yep, a history and “promising” future.


----------



## ABHale

fido3039 said:


> It is one of the things I am so confused about. I know for sure that the woman I loved was not this woman, and for some reason I am believing on what she is telling me. I know I wont be the same person that trusted her deeply, and she knows this, so I believe that she knows what we are going to if we decide to reconcile and give it a try, she wont have it easy. This was the first and ever time she cheated, I can ensure you this.


The woman you fell in love with never existed. She showed you who she really is, believe in what she did and not her honey words of undying love.

She is ****ed with no where else to go.


----------



## Asterix

fido3039 said:


> It is one of the things I am so confused about. I know for sure that the woman I loved was not this woman, and for some reason I am believing on what she is telling me.



She knows you well. She knows where your buttons are and how to play with your heart strings. So, I think she's likely emotionaly manipulating you and possibly guilt tripping you and I think you are just eating it all up.


----------



## ABHale

fido3039 said:


> It is one of the things I am so confused about. I know for sure that the woman I loved was not this woman, and for some reason I am believing on what she is telling me. I know I wont be the same person that trusted her deeply, and she knows this, so I believe that she knows what we are going to if we decide to reconcile and give it a try, she wont have it easy. This was the first and ever time she cheated, I can ensure you this.


The woman you fell in love with never existed. She showed you who she really is, believe in what she did and not her honey words of undying love.

She is ****ed with no where else to go


fido3039 said:


> No, I never said I CAUSED her to cheat, read again. It is all her fault, not mine. Cheating was never an option. All I am looking here is for possible scenarios, I really really feel a lot for my kid, splitting will break him in the long run.


I am the child of divorced parents because my mom cheated on my dad. I have all the respect in the world for him divorcing my mom for what she did. Your kid will be fine, just be the best dad you can be.


----------



## ABHale

fido3039 said:


> She admitted to, gave me timelines, details, etc. I wasn't pushing her. And like I said, I feel it was like this because she actually changed by that time


She did this because she has read about how to save your marriage when you **** 4 other guys.

She hasn’t come up with this on her own. She is getting help from another site.


----------



## Marc878

fido3039 said:


> Thanks guys, appreciate all feedback, please do understand that harsh comments do nothing good when one feels the way I am, I d anyway appreciate them


Sorry but reality is harsh. Infidelity is extremely destructive. It is your life your choice. You are the one that has to live with it.


----------



## ABHale

fido3039 said:


> Sorry, will not go that route. Not healthy and I wont get anything out from that.


Their wives will know what fine outstanding pillars of the community they are.

They have a right to know just like you.


----------



## Asterix

fido3039 said:


> No, nothing does. But I am so confused regarding that I know that she ****ed up and it is facing the consequences and for some reason this has make a wake up call on her.



This really shouldn't be considered as a wake up call. All she's trying to right now is to cover her own @s$. I would say that the first real and should have been only wake up call for her when she was seriously considering cheating on you. Everything after that is something that she made conscious decisions on. Every hookup, every instance of flirting. Every instance of chatting guys up for hookup etc.


----------



## ABHale

fido3039 said:


> It is not that easy, I dont know them, and I will have to chase them, I know very little about them (didn't ask too much). I can perhaps get their numbers from her. But the thing is I will be calling for more trouble. I dont know how they will get it. If they will come after me or something. I just dont need that. My son needs me.


Then make your cheating wife tell the other betrayed spouses.


----------



## Asterix

fido3039 said:


> This is what I am having a hard time accepting. I mean, i know her deeply and i know she did it for other months only, so basically I am having a hard time accepting that she turned into this and will do it again. Crap



But, do you really though? Do you really know her. Do you think that the person you knew was capable of cheating and blowing up the life of her husband and her child?

I understand that you are having a hard time to come to terms with all of this. I think this is the denial stage. I do think there's a long way to go for you yet.


----------



## ABHale

fido3039 said:


> For over 12 years and nothing, and then this. It is hard to accept.


Denialism is strong in you.


----------



## ABHale

fido3039 said:


> To be honest, it is a good question, do I love her ? I dont really do right now, I rather feel some anger towards her. All I care about is my son right now. It is the only thing holding me back together.


Then divorce your cheating wife and get 50/50 custody of your son.

Bringing him up in a loveless home is only going to teach him that is the way a family is.


----------



## ABHale

fido3039 said:


> This is something that I am sure will haunt her for life.


Only if she had a conscience. Which she doesn’t have.


----------



## ConanHub

ABHale said:


> Then make your cheating wife tell the other betrayed spouses.


I like this.


----------



## ElOtro

A hopely brief TJ about being unselfish.
What I´ve learned from rising my three daughters as a single father and only "available" parent is that caring for my kids gave me more than what I could give them.
So, call it being selfish.


----------



## jlg07

fido3039 said:


> I don't know them and I am not interested. They were people from around her work place. They were friends of this girlfriend that she works with. Absolutely, she has to go.


If these guys were at her workplace, she needs to quit there also.


----------



## jlg07

fido3039 said:


> For over 12 years and nothing, and then this. It is hard to accept.


But you really HAVE to. Take off the rose colored glasses and see reality of who she REALLY is now. THINK about this.
If you don't you will wind up rug-sweeping this and that will NEVER lead to any good solution.


----------



## jlg07

fido3039 said:


> You can not imagine, man. The lack of sleep is eating me alive. I have so much uncertainty that is killing me. Uncertain on what to do or what to believe. All I want is to somehow get my family back, but I understand it will never be the same, and it will take lots of time and effort.


Do this to help yourself. GO see a few lawyers and find out what divorce would look like for you where you live. 
Doesn't mean you have to D her if you decide to reconcile. What is does is give you a few plans that you can pick from and removes the fear of the unknown.


----------



## jlg07

fido3039 said:


> Told her this, her answer: It was never my intention to leave you. And you could tell, there was never any emotion on that. She even told me that after the couple of times she just stopped answering these guys.


Yeah, she never intended to leave you -- and she never thought about YOU at ALL when she was out banging these guys.
NEVER thought about what it would do to you, your family, your friends, etc..
She NEVER meant to leave you -- because she never thought she would be caught.


----------



## jlg07

fido3039 said:


> Don't get me wrong, she is an excellent and caring mother


Not true -- no woman who does this to her H is an excellent mother. SHE is the one who has broken the family -- you think that only affects YOU??


----------



## bygone

You should know that your wife is trying to harmonize the narrative for you. She remained faithful over the years and slept with 4 men several times in 6 months. Change is fast and comfort is scary.

You knew you slept with 4 guys. tried to manipulate it without denying it.

ons; those who build these relationships can find someone and go to bed in a few hours.

The story has definitely changed. Where did she meet 3 guys? How many days/months did he date before going to bed?

I advise you to divorce

If you want to try it, you should ask for a timetable. (including men she's slept with in the past)

Does your partner have friends who know, support and encourage the relationship?
Do you still see them?, do they work in the same place as men, are the men married, you must confess the relationship of your spouse to your family, social circle, families of the men she slept with and be together. inspiration. can tell them different stories.

If the communication continues until you catch it, the relationship continues.

You have to put him on the lie detector. I'm sure new confessions will come.


----------



## bygone

fido3039 said:


> I need to point out a few things you said: she has sex ONCE with a guy she met at a bar. The other 3 guys, two of them got introduced by her friend, and one of them by one of their sister. I never said all them were at a bar. I got myself an STD and I am clean. I asked her to do the same. The reason I said this is the first time she did this is because I know how her behaviour changed from October, she turned into a different person. Of course I have to believe what she said.


is your wife's friend choices character. Does she befriend cheaters and sleep with men they bring?
are you sure!

Any chance your wife brought the guys in and introduced them?

you are trying to avoid problems. You're a little worried about protecting your image, but these relationships are a known secret. what your wife and friends do is known at work and in your community. you just weren't told.

If her friends are married, her husband should be told.

Your wife should tell every man's family. This allows her to be firm on r and understand what to do if she cheats again.

You have to be determined and strong. You are helping to vacuum the carpet.

Deceptions cause permanent psychological problems. start therapy now and you will notice changes in yourself.


----------



## jsmart

To go through 4 men in 6 months is pretty wild. The build up for sex must have went very fast. We k is one was a ONS but the others had her several times. Does her timeline include details of how she ended up having sex with these guys. To go from introduction, flirting, first time kissing, to first time heavy petting/oral to eventually PIV sex? Or was she like some free call girl, introduced and having sex that same day?

also, where was she hooking up with these guys? Did she bring any of them to your home? Did she have your kid around any of these guys? With one of these guys being a complete stranger she allowed to pick her up at a bar. Does that mean she’s doing GNO? If so, that will have to be something that stops due to the speed with which she’s capable of sleeping with a guy she doesn’t know.


----------



## aine

fido3039 said:


> It was a period of time when I felt depressed and angry towards her with no good reasons.


Many woman have ****ty husbands or husbands who don't treat them well but they don't run out and f*** the nearest men they can find. Your wife's character is very questionable! Tread very carefully, I think this woman will cause you much heartache if you let her back in your life. There are plenty of good honest women out there!


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> @fido3039 you mentioned that she had changed a lot while she was having those affairs. Can you clarify how? Was she cold and indifferent towards you. Did she pick fights over very petty things? Did the sex and affection stop. Was she developing a cocky, I’m all that attitude?


She started going out more frequently and basically talking/texting more on the phone


----------



## Evinrude58

Why were you ok with your wife “going out” more frequently?

what does she have to do in order for you to say “I’ve had enough”?

You do realize you’re teaching her thatyou’ll tolerate her banging other men, going out to bars without you, etc.
What do you think the future is going to be like with her?


----------



## Annonymous Joe

fido3039 said:


> So looking for some advice here. I know for sure the majority of advice will be to "move on", but please, before recommending so, consider the scenario, as this is what I am most confused about. I will try to keep it short.
> 
> 12 years together, 6 married, 5 year old son. So, a month ago I found out my wife cheated on me multiple times with different mens (4 in total). This will surely sound BIG, and it does, but I am going to give some perspective. After I found out, we separated, basically she moved out with our kid. The way I found out was that I checked her phone, and while I did find out that she did, I wasn't sure how many times and with how many mens. I went no contact with her immediately and only talk about the kid.
> 
> So over the last year or so, our relationship deterioted deeply, to the point that I neglected sex to her for the last 6 months or so, this was previous to the end of January. Upon not feeling very well with the situation and at the risk of loosing my family, I started to treat her better - meaning, I would go on date, have more sex, etc. She was accepting that and was feeling comfortable again with me. We had very good times over the next two months or so (until April). Anyway, I noticed a change in her behavior from last year, and it was that she kept using her phone more often, something that she had never done in our years together and this caught my attention. So this got me curious and one night in April I went to check it and found out. At the time I did not confronted her with all the details, I just asked her and she admitted and I asked her to move out and she did. The next day when she moved out, she told me that she wanted to speak with me about the situation and she came home and told me that she was sorry, crying, etc. but I told her we need to keep distance and she left again. She left a lot of her and the kid's clothing at home, mainly due to accommodation and I let her do it until she can find a place.
> 
> Now, over the next couples of weeks of April I kept communication only regarding the kid, she respected that. She never tried to reach me or anything, she respected my boundaries. She is staying at her mother's. Fast forward to April's last Friday, I offered her to keep the kid while she can find a place, so that he is not uncomfortable sleeping elsewhere. I even suggested her that I can keep him and that I will have no issues for her to pick him up whenever she please. This was early in the morning and I did not got a response from her until late evening, when she answered that if I agree, she can come home to discuss this. I told her no, that we should talk in another public place, but she insisted to come so that she can pick up some clothing for her and the kid. I had to agree.
> 
> She came home that day late evening, and we discussed the arrangement, meanwhile she started packing some of her clothes. She tried to somehow include the separation subject into the manner, etc but I kept holding her off, but i couldn't hold it anymore and had to ask her. I asked her why, why, why. I told her the nightmare I have been living in since I found out. We both crumbled, we cried together, etc. she told me she does not wants to leave, she was remorseful, that she wants the opportunity to show me how she has changed and will change, etc. but ultimately I helped her pack her clothing and she left. She texted me that she will wait for me no matter the time, etc.
> 
> I went back to No Contact, but after this day, she started to somehow be more inclined to talk to me. She respected my boundaries still, but was starting to kind of be more communicative and gentle, asking me on some days how I am doing, etc. Obviously, I always had flat out answers as "Fine, Ok, good". So in one of those days she messages me asking me how I am doing in general and how I am doing with her, etc. I couldn't help but told her that I haven't feel any worse in my life, etc. but that I know I will someday feel better. She then proceeded to tell me that she misses me, misses our family, that she loves me, bla bla bla. I told her to cut it off and ignored her, but she insisted. I told her that I wanted her to tell me those things she said in text to me face to face, and that to be prepared to have a clean, honest, and serious conversation with me regarding all that happened.
> 
> So we went ahead and got together in the next day or so and she expressed everything. I asked every detail of the encounters. From October last year until March this year, she had 4 affairs with different mens. The first man she had sex two times with him, the second man 3 times, the third man was a one night stand that she new at a bar and the last man she had sex two times. I asked every detail, etc. Of course, I have no specific way to corroborate this so I trust what she said, as I just let her throw it all out. These months were difficult months during our relationship, but I know nothing actually will justify her actions.
> 
> Now, for the last part, she has shown remorse and I asked her to come up with a plan on how we can fix all this mess, just to see what she would do or think about it. She told me she never had any intentions to leave me, and i know this, since I have always been the breadwinner and those mens knew she was married. She is deeply sorry about breaking the family and how this will affect our kid, but one thing she keeps reminding me is this: And that she wants to do it (get back), but it will not be because of the kid, but because of us, that while she understand his future is important, she will get back to me because of us. I have never had any doubt about her and I know for sure that regarding the timeline at least she is somehow telling the truth, as I did noticed a change in her behavior starting that specific time. She did not have any affair previously that I could tell or that she told me. But while I do want to keep my family, I am not sure I will be able to forget about that. All I worry about is my kid - we were always a happy family, and he misses that. We never had any arguments or anything. We just neglected our sex life for just too much of a time. She insist that she has changed and that she will change and that she will wait and accept that I wont be able to forgive her in a long time, but she wants the opportunity to show me. She has no issues with getting under any condition I may put as in open phone policy, etc. I truly believe her regarding this, because I know for sure that she never thought she was going to get caught, and now that she did, she knows how much she was putting at risks here. But I dont know if I will be ever to see her again like I used to see her. She has not yet come up with the idea of how we can clean this mess and I am waiting for her proposal, but in the meantime I was hoping to get some advice from here. Happy to answer any additional inquiries regarding information as I know I have left a lot out, so if you need some more clarity, let me know. Thanks!


Listen bro, I know it's hard. But you gotta think about what you're saying here. You want to take back a FOUR time cheater.......FOUR. If you take her back you will never ever ever trust her again. Every time she is on her phone, you will feel an urge to check it. Every time she leaves the house without you, you will feel compelled to know every detail of her whereabouts. I know you love her, you love your family, etc., but think about what you are saying. You are placing the entirety of the issues on your shoulders. Did you lead the marriage? Not for a bit, sure, happens to most men, you got complacent, but a good woman who can communicate will find ways to speak to you from the heart about her discontent, and if you ignore her, only then, only then should any action be taken, whether separation or filing for divorce, but not getting into bed with 4 men. That isn't an affair, that is w**ring around. Sorry to be so blunt, but your wife wanted to use this as an excuse to get her rocks off while you suffered with guilt, and now she wants you back. Screw that. Best thing you can do is focus on you and your child. Take up new hobbies, go to the gym, get a darn good therapist because you will have PTSD from all this and feel low. You will need to rebuild yourself. All you can do is show her indifference and then date a 22 year old hard body. Do the 180.


----------



## Annonymous Joe

fido3039 said:


> No, I never said I CAUSED her to cheat, read again. It is all her fault, not mine. Cheating was never an option. All I am looking here is for possible scenarios, I really really feel a lot for my kid, splitting will break him in the long run.


You can feel bad for what your child is experiencing, but you need to man up and realize this is NOT your fault. Every tear that child sheds in front of you, say to yourself in your head she did this. Get angry, then go to the gym and beat the heck out of the weight room with that anger. Your body will thank you. A man's anger is his greatest strength when applied correctly.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

So sorry @fido3039 but in my opinion as you said she’s had 4 men but you’ve only caught her once may be true, but I find it very troubling that in about 5 months time she has had sex with 4 different men. I personally think that is a lot worse than just one person she was seeing that she developed feelings for. What she is doing she likes or is looking for something you haven’t or can’t give her. She also seems to really like or want a lot of s*x.

In closing based on her admitted behavior no matter what she says I don’t think Joe she has experienced in those five months she will not go back to only being with, while she may for a bit I think in time she will go back to this life and just make it harder for you to discover so my advice as painful as it may be to you in the short term is to cut your losses and move on I really feel you would be better and happier in the long run. Best of luck!


----------



## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> Why were you ok with your wife “going out” more frequently?
> 
> what does she have to do in order for you to say “I’ve had enough”?
> 
> You do realize you’re teaching her thatyou’ll tolerate her banging other men, going out to bars without you, etc.
> What do you think the future is going to be like with her?


You are absolutely right. I should've known bettter when she started doing it and should've put a stop, unfortunatelly I didn't


----------



## fido3039

HappilyMarried1 said:


> So sorry @fido3039 but in my opinion as you said she’s had 4 men but you’ve only caught her once may be true, but I find it very troubling that in about 5 months time she has had sex with 4 different men. I personally think that is a lot worse than just one person she was seeing that she developed feelings for. What she is doing she likes or is looking for something you haven’t or can’t give her. She also seems to really like or want a lot of s*x. In closing based on her admitted behavior no matter what she says I don’t think Joe she has experienced in those five months she will not go back to only being with, while she may for a bit I think in time she will go back to this life and just make it harder for you to discover so my advice as painful as it may be to you in the short term is to cut your losses and move on I really feel you would be better and happier in the long run. Best of luck!


Thanks, man. Yeah, I find it troubling too. I can't believe this ****. I however dont believe she developed any feelings, which is kind of worse on this case to be honest. I understand she was looking for something I haven't give to her.


----------



## BURNT KEP

fido3039 said:


> So looking for some advice here. I know for sure the majority of advice will be to "move on", but please, before recommending so, consider the scenario, as this is what I am most confused about. I will try to keep it short.
> 
> 12 years together, 6 married, 5 year old son. So, a month ago I found out my wife cheated on me multiple times with different mens (4 in total). This will surely sound BIG, and it does, but I am going to give some perspective. After I found out, we separated, basically she moved out with our kid. The way I found out was that I checked her phone, and while I did find out that she did, I wasn't sure how many times and with how many mens. I went no contact with her immediately and only talk about the kid.
> 
> So over the last year or so, our relationship deterioted deeply, to the point that I neglected sex to her for the last 6 months or so, this was previous to the end of January. Upon not feeling very well with the situation and at the risk of loosing my family, I started to treat her better - meaning, I would go on date, have more sex, etc. She was accepting that and was feeling comfortable again with me. We had very good times over the next two months or so (until April). Anyway, I noticed a change in her behavior from last year, and it was that she kept using her phone more often, something that she had never done in our years together and this caught my attention. So this got me curious and one night in April I went to check it and found out. At the time I did not confronted her with all the details, I just asked her and she admitted and I asked her to move out and she did. The next day when she moved out, she told me that she wanted to speak with me about the situation and she came home and told me that she was sorry, crying, etc. but I told her we need to keep distance and she left again. She left a lot of her and the kid's clothing at home, mainly due to accommodation and I let her do it until she can find a place.
> 
> Now, over the next couples of weeks of April I kept communication only regarding the kid, she respected that. She never tried to reach me or anything, she respected my boundaries. She is staying at her mother's. Fast forward to April's last Friday, I offered her to keep the kid while she can find a place, so that he is not uncomfortable sleeping elsewhere. I even suggested her that I can keep him and that I will have no issues for her to pick him up whenever she please. This was early in the morning and I did not got a response from her until late evening, when she answered that if I agree, she can come home to discuss this. I told her no, that we should talk in another public place, but she insisted to come so that she can pick up some clothing for her and the kid. I had to agree.
> 
> She came home that day late evening, and we discussed the arrangement, meanwhile she started packing some of her clothes. She tried to somehow include the separation subject into the manner, etc but I kept holding her off, but i couldn't hold it anymore and had to ask her. I asked her why, why, why. I told her the nightmare I have been living in since I found out. We both crumbled, we cried together, etc. she told me she does not wants to leave, she was remorseful, that she wants the opportunity to show me how she has changed and will change, etc. but ultimately I helped her pack her clothing and she left. She texted me that she will wait for me no matter the time, etc.
> 
> I went back to No Contact, but after this day, she started to somehow be more inclined to talk to me. She respected my boundaries still, but was starting to kind of be more communicative and gentle, asking me on some days how I am doing, etc. Obviously, I always had flat out answers as "Fine, Ok, good". So in one of those days she messages me asking me how I am doing in general and how I am doing with her, etc. I couldn't help but told her that I haven't feel any worse in my life, etc. but that I know I will someday feel better. She then proceeded to tell me that she misses me, misses our family, that she loves me, bla bla bla. I told her to cut it off and ignored her, but she insisted. I told her that I wanted her to tell me those things she said in text to me face to face, and that to be prepared to have a clean, honest, and serious conversation with me regarding all that happened.
> 
> So we went ahead and got together in the next day or so and she expressed everything. I asked every detail of the encounters. From October last year until March this year, she had 4 affairs with different mens. The first man she had sex two times with him, the second man 3 times, the third man was a one night stand that she new at a bar and the last man she had sex two times. I asked every detail, etc. Of course, I have no specific way to corroborate this so I trust what she said, as I just let her throw it all out. These months were difficult months during our relationship, but I know nothing actually will justify her actions.
> 
> Now, for the last part, she has shown remorse and I asked her to come up with a plan on how we can fix all this mess, just to see what she would do or think about it. She told me she never had any intentions to leave me, and i know this, since I have always been the breadwinner and those mens knew she was married. She is deeply sorry about breaking the family and how this will affect our kid, but one thing she keeps reminding me is this: And that she wants to do it (get back), but it will not be because of the kid, but because of us, that while she understand his future is important, she will get back to me because of us. I have never had any doubt about her and I know for sure that regarding the timeline at least she is somehow telling the truth, as I did noticed a change in her behavior starting that specific time. She did not have any affair previously that I could tell or that she told me. But while I do want to keep my family, I am not sure I will be able to forget about that. All I worry about is my kid - we were always a happy family, and he misses that. We never had any arguments or anything. We just neglected our sex life for just too much of a time. She insist that she has changed and that she will change and that she will wait and accept that I wont be able to forgive her in a long time, but she wants the opportunity to show me. She has no issues with getting under any condition I may put as in open phone policy, etc. I truly believe her regarding this, because I know for sure that she never thought she was going to get caught, and now that she did, she knows how much she was putting at risks here. But I dont know if I will be ever to see her again like I used to see her. She has not yet come up with the idea of how we can clean this mess and I am waiting for her proposal, but in the meantime I was hoping to get some advice from here. Happy to answer any additional inquiries regarding information as I know I have left a lot out, so if you need some more clarity, let me know. Thanks!


Omg run this will never get better


----------



## loblawbobblog

fido3039 said:


> This is something I cannot get over with


And you never will, trust me. I rug swept for 20+ years and I'm now dealing with the mental/emotional consequences of that in middle age and it isn't pretty. My situation is almost identical to yours except that at the time I found out about only one guy my wife slept with. 22 years later I found out about the others during that same period. I also didn't want to break up the family because of our son, who was an only child at the time. I should have left, and the two kids we had after her cheating are the only reasons I don't regret staying, but I've been obsessed with her cheating all these years and that's no way to live. My advice is to leave.


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## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> Thanks, man. Yeah, I find it troubling too. I can't believe this ****. I however dont believe she developed any feelings, which is kind of worse on this case to be honest. I understand she was looking for something I haven't give to her.


What does her developing feelings have to do with her being a serial cheater? Are you okay that she has another 4 - 6 guy binge in a year or so as long as she doesn't catch feelings? This is what happens once their brains get rewired like hers has.

If you're okay with that, then help her open an only-fans and get some men over to perform with her, that way at least you can make some money from your choice.


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## Rus47

Dictum Veritas said:


> This is what happens once their brains get rewired like hers has.


Isnt it possible her wiring has been bad always? @fido3039 only thinks he knows the whole story. 4 men in a few months that she ADMITS to is still pretty high speed effing. I am betting she has had way more than he knows. A married woman who has been faithful is going to have a lot of hesitation about doing another man. I think his “wife” has had a LOT of practice before October of last year.

@fido3039, what was your wife’s sexual history before you got together with her? Maybe she relapsed in October. Old habits die hard


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## fido3039

loblawbobblog said:


> And you never will, trust me. I rug swept for 20+ years and I'm now dealing with the mental/emotional consequences of that in middle age and it isn't pretty. My situation is almost identical to yours except that at the time I found out about only one guy my wife slept with. 22 years later I found out about the others during that same period. I also didn't want to break up the family because of our son, who was an only child at the time. I should have left, and the two kids we had after her cheating are the only reasons I don't regret staying, but I've been obsessed with her cheating all these years and that's no way to live. My advice is to leave.


Thanks for your input


----------



## fido3039

Rus47 said:


> @fido3039, what was your wife’s sexual history before you got together with her? Maybe she relapsed in October. Old habits die hard


Im with her since her late teens, so previous to that I know nothing. She was sexually assalted as a teenager though, this was only revealed recently to me, when she confessed about the affairs.

EDIT


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## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> Thanks, man. Yeah, I find it troubling too. I can't believe this ****. I however dont believe she developed any feelings, which is kind of worse on this case to be honest. I understand she was looking for something I haven't give to her.


That she ran through 4 guys in such a short time and didn’t develop any feelings is indicative of a broken woman. There’s a reason why women in the sex industry (porn, prostitute, stripper, etc) are usually into drugs. This is not something she can just muscle through. She’s going to need some serious counseling to help rid her of these inner demons. Having lost all fear of laying with new men she may end up desiring a hit of new D once the drama dies down. 

Speaking of dying down, She’s at home with mom and has not stepped out, right? How sure are you about this? The adrenaline rush she felt with each guy is very addictive. It has nothing to do with the guy being a stud. It’s all about the excitement of a new guy. You can’t take her word. All waywards lie and minimize.

I have to warn you not to allow her to put you into a sex coma with her newly acquired sexual techniques. It is best for you to decide your future with a clear head.


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## Dictum Veritas

jsmart said:


> That she ran through 4 guys in such a short time and didn’t develop any feelings is indicative of a broken woman. There’s a reason why women in the sex industry (porn, prostitute, stripper, etc) are usually into drugs. This is not something she can just muscle through. She’s going to need some serious counseling to help rid her of these inner demons. Having lost all fear of laying with new men she may end up desiring a hit of new D once the drama dies down.
> 
> Speaking of dying down, She’s at home with mom and has not stepped out, right? How sure are you about this? The adrenaline rush she felt with each guy is very addictive. It has nothing to do with the guy being a stud. It’s all about the excitement of a new guy. You can’t take her word. All waywards lie and minimize.
> 
> I have to warn you not to allow her to put you into a sex coma with her newly acquired sexual techniques. It is best for you to decide your future with a clear head.


I wonder where she is tonight? Or at least I would have were I her husband.


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## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> Im with her since her late teens, so previous to that I know nothing. *She was rapped as a teenager* though, this was only revealed recently to me, when she confessed about the affairs.


Important. Never processed properly. Messed up her wiring and was never unscrambled. Her relationship with males is fouled up. Her concealing that for your entire relationship doesnt bode well for other things in her past or for a future with her.

BTW, you now have AT LEAST four other men inside her head competing for her attention. If even one if them was bigger, better at sex with her, more skilled, she will be very prone to wanting more of him. Are you ok competing with her memories?


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## fido3039

jsmart said:


> Speaking of dying down, She’s at home with mom and has not stepped out, right? How sure are you about this? The adrenaline rush she felt with each guy is very addictive. It has nothing to do with the guy being a stud. It’s all about the excitement of a new guy. You can’t take her word. All waywards lie and minimize.


For once, I only have her word. Secondly, I guess as you said the adrenaline was there when I was with her, now that we are not, I guess there is no more excitement to do it.


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## fido3039

Rus47 said:


> BTW, you now have AT LEAST four other men inside her head competing for her attention. If even one if them was bigger, better at sex with her, more skilled, she will be very prone to wanting more of him. Are you ok competing with her memories?


I guess the fact that she jumped from one to another tells me she wasn't really looking for "the better sex" but rather something else


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## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> I wonder where she is tonight? Or at least I would have were I her husband.


Whether with her or somebody else, it will be the same thought no matter who I end up with.


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## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> Whether with her or somebody else, it will be the same thought no matter who I end up with.


No, it's not true, there are people you can trust and who proves themselves trustworthy by their actions and when you meet one of them, you will know. But you are hell bent on defending your damaged wife and her despicable actions by any stretch and rationalization you can because you are grasping for Harry Potter's wand to try to fix that which is broken beyond repair.

Frankly, until you give up on this folly and accept reality for what it is, no one here or anywhere on God's green Earth would be able to help you.


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## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> For once, I only have her word. Secondly, I guess as you said the adrenaline was there when I was with her, now that we are not, I guess there is no more excitement to do it.


You’re wrong about that. The adrenaline rush was not only because she was sneaking around; it was because the excitement of a new sex partner. You’ve been married and faithful so have probably forgotten the high of a new sex partner. She supposedly forgot too but just recently enjoyed that feeling 4 times.

That is like a drug and as a young woman, she’s able to go out and get that rush at a drop of a hat. So you better be sure. Remember these were guys she met through work, one call and they will be there in a snap.


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## Rus47

jsmart said:


> Remember these were guys she met through work, one call and they will be there in a snap.


Wont even take a call. They see one another everyday. There are closets, cars, bathrooms ready whenever wanted. At work, before work, after work, weekends. Many opportunities every day. And men at work who know what she did for others and are anxious to taste her fruit for themselves. All she needs do is look their way.


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## loblawbobblog

My perspective is a little different than others here. I believe people can change, can be unfaithful but then never do it again. I would not focus on her and whether or not she will be unfaithful again. The issue is that she has already cheated, with multiple men, and you know about it and are already playing mental movies about her trysts, and you're wondering if you'll ever be able to move past these thoughts. Based on my experience, you won't. It won't matter how remorseful your wife is or the lengths she goes to make it up to you or reassure you, you'll always think about those 4 guys who banged your wife, who probably came inside her, the idea that she then slept in your bed beside you with another guy's cum still inside her. And those thoughts will affect your interactions with her, they'll pop up and hit you hard on some days, whereas other days you'll ruminate on them in a slow boil. The thoughts are a permanent, uninvited intruder in your marriage.


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## fido3039

jsmart said:


> You’re wrong about that. The adrenaline rush was not only because she was sneaking around; it was because the excitement of a new sex partner. You’ve been married and faithful so have probably forgotten the high of a new sex partner. She supposedly forgot too but just recently enjoyed that feeling 4 times.
> 
> That is like a drug and as a young woman, she’s able to go out and get that rush at a drop of a hat. So you better be sure. Remember these were guys she met through work, one call and they will be there in a snap.


She is not that young, in her late 30. Also, none of the guys she met them through work, 2 of them were introduced to her by a co-worker, one of them ONS, and the last one was introduced to her by a sister.


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## fido3039

loblawbobblog said:


> My perspective is a little different than others here. I believe people can change, can be unfaithful but then never do it again. I would not focus on her and whether or not she will be unfaithful again. The issue is that she has already cheated, with multiple men, and you know about it and are already playing mental movies about her trysts, and you're wondering if you'll ever be able to move past these thoughts. Based on my experience, you won't. It won't matter how remorseful your wife is or the lengths she goes to make it up to you or reassure you, you'll always think about those 4 guys who banged your wife, who probably came inside her, the idea that she then slept in your bed beside you with another guy's cum still inside her. And those thoughts will affect your interactions with her, they'll pop up and hit you hard on some days, whereas other days you'll ruminate on them in a slow boil. The thoughts are a permanent, uninvited intruder in your marriage.


My thoughts too. Now, I ask you in all honesty, is this something that will ever be held back in the brain and will never let go ? Of course it is like you said, all of it. But then I think I could give it a try and see ? What do I loose ? time ?

Also, i know it will take time and actions for this, not words


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## jsmart

A serial cheaters can be reformed but it is way harder than just going cold turkey. We just learned that she was sexually assaulted as a teen. That is as damaging or maybe more so than having an abortion at 17 from a drug addict that your heart wants to stay with. 

You had over 20 years of your wife being on the straight and narrow (supposedly). But OP situation is very new. Can she change ? Maybe but she can also just go through the motions and end up with a wife who’s love is lukewarm. You know the how these past few months have haunted you. Well he is now in your shoes but it’s recent. As bad as your pain is, you at least have seen through her actions that she has not betrayed you again. (Again, I hope)

R can happen but he has to have a remorseful spouse who will do the work. Right now he has a regretful wife who appears to be trying but how real is that effort? If he had not busted her, she would still be hooking up with number 4 or have moved on to partner number 5 or 6 even.


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## fido3039

loblawbobblog said:


> My perspective is a little different than others here. I believe people can change, can be unfaithful but then never do it again. I would not focus on her and whether or not she will be unfaithful again. The issue is that she has already cheated, with multiple men, and you know about it and are already playing mental movies about her trysts, and you're wondering if you'll ever be able to move past these thoughts. Based on my experience, you won't. It won't matter how remorseful your wife is or the lengths she goes to make it up to you or reassure you, you'll always think about those 4 guys who banged your wife, who probably came inside her, the idea that she then slept in your bed beside you with another guy's cum still inside her. And those thoughts will affect your interactions with her, they'll pop up and hit you hard on some days, whereas other days you'll ruminate on them in a slow boil. The thoughts are a permanent, uninvited intruder in your marriage.


Also, to be honest, I have let go off that, since that was making me sick. I am already past those episodes whether we get back together or not, It was not kind to me to remain in those mental thoughts and I have let go a few weeks ago. Of course, sporadic thoughts come, but they go as quickly as they go. And if this is a few weeks in, I know it will get better in months and or years.


----------



## sideways

That she never told you she was raped adds to what you're dealing with. Your wife has YEARS of intense therapy ahead of herself if she ever wants to get to what's going on with her. Hopefully for your son (and herself) she'll be committed to getting the help she needs.


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## loblawbobblog

fido3039 said:


> She is not that young, in her late 30. Also, none of the guys she met them through work, 2 of them were introduced to her by a co-worker, one of them ONS, and the last one was introduced to her by a sister.


Late 30s is young, it may not seem like it when you're that age but in 15 years you'll realize how young that is and how good we look at that age. 

The fact her sister is involved in all this makes it way worse and harder to unravel and compartmentalize the infidelity from your "normal" life.


----------



## loblawbobblog

fido3039 said:


> Also, to be honest, I have let go off that, since that was making me sick. I am already past those episodes whether we get back together or not, It was not kind to me to remain in those mental thoughts and I have let go a few weeks ago. Of course, sporadic thoughts come, but they go as quickly as they go. And if this is a few weeks in, I know it will get better in months and or years.


If you're truly over those thoughts, then you're a much better man than I.


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> A serial cheaters can be reformed but it is way harder than just going cold turkey. We just learned that she was sexually assaulted as a teen. That is as damaging or maybe more so than having an abortion at 17 from a drug addict that your heart wants to stay with.
> 
> You had over 20 years of your wife being on the straight and narrow (supposedly). But OP situation is very new. Can she change ? Maybe but she can also just go through the motions and end up with a wife who’s love is lukewarm. You know the how these past few months have haunted you. Well he is now in your shoes but it’s recent.
> 
> R can happen but he has to have a remorseful spouse who will do the work. Right now he has a regretful wife who appears to be trying but how real is that effort? If he had not busted her, she would still be hooking up with number 4 or have moved on to partner number 5 or 6 even.


There is a back history that I didnt actually wrote about but in hindsight - before I caught her I kicked her out two weeks prior, and then we reunited. I noticed immediately a change in her behavior for the next two weeks, like the old she has returned - apparently during those two weeks out she basically came to terms what would it be if we separated.

Also, regarding serial cheater, assume she had no history prior to these incidents - is she in fact a serial cheater ? Like I said, we have been together since her late teens and I have never doubted her, not me or any family or friends. The few friends and family that knows about this and that knows her are as shocked as I am.


----------



## fido3039

loblawbobblog said:


> If you're truly over those thoughts, then you're a much better man than I.


Like I said, it is not that I am truly over then, but few weeks back I just came to terms that I will not let that affect my well being and I just started to let go. Still they cripple in my mind from time to time, but not as frequent as before since I have realized that will eventually do not good


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## fido3039

sideways said:


> That she never told you she was raped adds to what you're dealing with. Your wife has YEARS of intense therapy ahead of herself if she ever wants to get to what's going on with her. Hopefully for your son (and herself) she'll be committed to getting the help she needs.


She definitively needs help, whether I stay or go


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## loblawbobblog

fido3039 said:


> Like I said, it is not that I am truly over then, but few weeks back I just came to terms that I will not let that affect my well being and I just started to let go. Still they cripple in my mind from time to time, but not as frequent as before since I have realized that will eventually do not good


My experience is that I convinced myself I had moved past those thoughts at the time we "reconciled" but over the years they continued to be intrusive and damaging to my relationship with my wife. You may not experience the same thing, but I'm just letting you know that a betrayed spouse will do all kinds of mental/emotional gymnastics to justify staying, especially so soon after discovering the infidelity.

I'll add that I only knew about one guy that my wife slept with when I decided to stay with her. I recently found out it was at least 3 more guys during that time. If I had known it was multiple guys at the time, I would have left. Serial cheating it's a far graver violation than an affair with one person, on my opinion.


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## fido3039

loblawbobblog said:


> My experience is that I convinced myself I had moved past those thoughts at the time we "reconciled" but over the years they continued to be intrusive and damaging to my relationship with my wife. You may not experience the same thing, but I'm just letting you know that a betrayed spouse will do all kinds of mental/emotional gymnastics to justify staying, especially so soon after discovering the infidelity.
> 
> I'll add that I only knew about one guy that my wife slept with when I decided to stay with her. I recently found out it was at least 3 more guys during that time. If I had known it was multiple guys at the time, I would have left. Serial cheating it's a far graver violation than an affair with one person, on my opinion.


Yeah, my thoughts too. Do you mind if I DM you ? Just looking for some advice on some things, really.


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## bobert

fido3039 said:


> Also, to be honest, I have let go off that, since that was making me sick. I am already past those episodes whether we get back together or not, It was not kind to me to remain in those mental thoughts and I have let go a few weeks ago. Of course, sporadic thoughts come, but they go as quickly as they go. And if this is a few weeks in, I know it will get better in months and or years.


It doesn't work like that or that quickly. You are either lying to us, or lying to yourself.


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## loblawbobblog

fido3039 said:


> Yeah, my thoughts too. Do you mind if I DM you ? Just looking for some advice on some things, really.


Sure thing.


----------



## fido3039

bobert said:


> It doesn't work like that or that quickly. You are either lying to us, or lying to yourself.


I haven't said I am over them fully, all I am saying is that a few weeks back I have come to terms that this will not do me any good, and that I have started to let go. For example, I wasnt sleeping because of that, but since 2 weeks I am sleeping better. Also, I dont torment myself too much of what happened, I was pain shopping and didn't do me any good so I wont do that again ever.


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## bobert

fido3039 said:


> I haven't said I am over them fully, all I am saying is that a few weeks back I have come to terms that this will not do me any good, and that I have started to let go. For example, I wasnt sleeping because of that, but since 2 weeks I am sleeping better. Also, I dont torment myself too much of what happened, I was pain shopping and didn't do me any good so I wont do that again ever.


I stand by what I said.


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## Asterix

fido3039 said:


> They are co workers and it is funny, this lady knew me. BUT, let me tell you, I can't blame her,


Why not? She worked in such a way as to dismantle your marriage and significantly damage the foundation. If you think you can't blame her, then I don't really know what to tell you.



fido3039 said:


> Don't get me wrong, she is an excellent and caring mother


No She is not! An excellent and caring mother does not make decisions that would uproot the child's living situation and make it precarious. That's on her, not you.



fido3039 said:


> It is so hard for me to delete 12 years of marriage. I can feel so sorry about my kid. Really, I can't hold this anymore. I dont even know If i am gonna make it. Not seeing my son everyday is killing me.


But then, it's her who deleted the 12 years of her marriage by her serial cheating. She showed to you that she's not a trustworthy and safe partner for you.



fido3039 said:


> My thoughts too. Now, I ask you in all honesty, is this something that will ever be held back in the brain and will never let go ? Of course it is like you said, all of it. But then I think I could give it a try and see ? What do I loose ? time ?
> 
> Also, i know it will take time and actions for this, not words


I know people, that are still hurt after a decade or so because of their partner's infidelity. I would say that it takes a really long time to come to terms with it and one never really gets rid of it completely.

Yes, you do loose time. You could be spending next 5-6 years trying to mend this broken relationship due to her cheating. Or you can go out and find a person who respects you and is trustworthy. I think that would be constructive use of your time.




fido3039 said:


> is she in fact a serial cheater ?


Why is this even a question in your mind? She deliberated made decisions and took actions to line up and sleep with at least 4 men, multiple times. You would have never found out about this, had you not checked her phone. So, in all fairness, how can you trust her at this point? Don't believe her words now. She's saying anything and everything to maintain her lifestyle. But is that in your best interests? 

If you son came to you with this story, what would your advice be to him?


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## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> There is a back history that I didnt actually wrote about but in hindsight - before I caught her I kicked her out two weeks prior, and then we reunited. I noticed immediately a change in her behavior for the next two weeks, like the old she has returned - apparently during those two weeks out she basically came to terms what would it be if we separated.
> 
> Also, regarding serial cheater, assume she had no history prior to these incidents - is she in fact a serial cheater ? Like I said, we have been together since her late teens and I have never doubted her, not me or any family or friends. The few friends and family that knows about this and that knows her are as shocked as I am.


Serial cheater is a person who has cheated with more than one person. With her being with 4 guys in a few months, she qualifies as a serial cheater. I do find it strange for her to go from never cheating to doing it 4 with for guys in succession. Not saying for sure that she betrayed you in the past but the speed with which she descended into such wanton behavior leads many to question if there were past betrayals. 

@loblawbobblog FWW had a “string” of ONS while they were going through counseling, after her break up with her OM that she wanted to leave him for. I suspect that was to get over the heartbreak of losing OM. So, with your wife behaving in a similar fashion, do you think it was your weeks/month of grouchiness that drove her to be so reckless or was she getting over someone else? Get all the facts so you can be sure you know what you’re actually forgiving.

Her sister connected her to a FWB? What a beotch. If she’s married, let her husband know. A wife that hooks up her married sister with other men is the type to hookup with men too. I’m sure he will come to same conclusion and not be happy.


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## fido3039

Asterix said:


> Why not? She worked in such a way as to dismantle your marriage and significantly damage the foundation. If you think you can't blame her, then I don't really know what to tell you.
> 
> 
> 
> No She is not! An excellent and caring mother does not make decisions that would uproot the child's living situation and make it precarious. That's on her, not you.
> 
> 
> 
> But then, it's her who deleted the 12 years of her marriage by her serial cheating. She showed to you that she's not a trustworthy and safe partner for you.
> 
> 
> 
> I know people, that are still hurt after a decade or so because of their partner's infidelity. I would say that it takes a really long time to come to terms with it and one never really gets rid of it completely.
> 
> Yes, you do loose time. You could be spending next 5-6 years trying to mend this broken relationship due to her cheating. Or you can go out and find a person who respects you and is trustworthy. I think that would be constructive use of your time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this even a question in your mind? She deliberated made decisions and took actions to line up and sleep with at least 4 men, multiple times. You would have never found out about this, had you not checked her phone. So, in all fairness, how can you trust her at this point? Don't believe her words now. She's saying anything and everything to maintain her lifestyle. But is that in your best interests?
> 
> If you son came to you with this story, what would your advice be to him?


I wont believe words, she knows that, I will believe actions if we ever decide to try. We will speak next week and lets see what does she comes up with. 

Regarding my son, it is his decision to make, everything that makes him happy I will stand by him.


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> Serial cheater is a person who has cheated with more than one person. With her being with 4 guys in a few months, she qualifies as a serial cheater. I do find it strange for her to go from never cheating to doing it 4 with for guys in succession. Not saying for sure that she betrayed you in the past but the speed with which she descended into such wanton behavior leads many to question if there were past betrayals.
> 
> @loblawbobblog FWW had a “string” of ONS while they were going through counseling, after her break up with her OM that she wanted to leave him for. I suspect that was to get over the heartbreak of losing OM. So, with your wife behaving in a similar fashion, do you think it was your weeks/month of grouchiness that drove her to be so reckless or was she getting over someone else? Get all the facts so you can be sure you know what you’re actually forgiving.
> 
> Her sister connected her to a FWB? What a beotch. If she’s married, let her husband know. A wife that hooks up her married sister with other men is the type to hookup with men too. I’m sure he will come to same conclusion and not be happy.


Great points you made. Keep in mind that I did not find any other evidence on the phone regarding the other affairs, only the last one. And I confronted her only over that one. She was the one who told me about the other three, without me asking. 

Her sister is connected to the affair I found, yes. BUT, I told her regarding how does she believes they (their family) would see me now and she told me that her sister and boyfriend where always against that and it was her decision, and not them.


----------



## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> My thoughts too. Now, I ask you in all honesty, is this something that will ever be held back in the brain and will never let go ? Of course it is like you said, all of it. But then I think I could give it a try and see ? What do I loose ? time ?
> 
> Also, i know it will take time and actions for this, not words


Both @bobert and @loblawbobblog have already walked the path you are so keen to follow. They "gave it a try". @loblawbobblog situation is nearly a carbon copy of yours. If they were willing, maybe start a private conversation with them to get a fuller understanding of what you face if you do what you seem so anxious to do. And maybe they have suggestions about structuring your plans in a sensible way.

Another thing, win-lose-draw your wife evidently needs some deep therapy to process what happened to her as a teenager. The situation is similar to buying a "fixer-upper" house. You knew the house needed paint. You only found out the foundation is cracked and the wiring unsafe 12 years after you bought it. If you continue to work on the house, it is a lifetime project full of surprises. Leaking plumbing, termites, etc etc. Four guys you don't know are squatting in the basement and you can't get them out. But, you love the old house with all of it's problems so you continue to spend money and time trying to make it a nice home. It is your life to live as you choose. But you only get one, and you can never get the years spent back.


----------



## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> Great points you made. Keep in mind that I did not find any other evidence on the phone regarding the other affairs, only the last one. And I confronted her only over that one. She was the one who told me about the other three, without me asking.
> 
> Her sister is connected to the affair I found, yes. BUT, I told her regarding how does she believes they (their family) would see me now and she told me that her sister and boyfriend where always against that and it was her decision, and not them.


I agree that she gets honesty points for coming clean on even the unknown APs. It had to be painful and very shameful to come clean on them. Was she trying to push you away with the confession? Getting you to pull the trigger on D.

Are you saying that her sister’s boyfriend knew about the last relationship and how it got started? That is really F’d up. What is her mother’s opinion on this whole ordeal? Does she know her daughter played an intricate role causing her other daughter to betray her husband and father of her grandchild?


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> Was she trying to push you away with the confession? Getting you to pull the trigger on D.


No, like I said, her intentions were never to leave me, she told me this and I know it. I know this for two things: I made her tell me at least what some of the guys worked on etc, and they are sub par guys.



jsmart said:


> Are you saying that her sister’s boyfriend knew about the last relationship and how it got started? That is really F’d up. What is her mother’s opinion on this whole ordeal? Does she know her daughter played an intricate role causing her other daughter to betray her husband and father of her grandchild?


Yes, in fact, it was a relative of him. They both (sister and boyfriend) were against it. Her mother doens't know the full details, only that "she cheated".


----------



## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> No, like I said, her intentions were never to leave me, she told me this and I know it. I know this for two things: I made her tell me at least what some of the guys worked on etc, and they are sub par guys.
> 
> 
> Yes, in fact, it was a relative of him. They both (sister and boyfriend) were against it. Her mother doens't know the full details, only that "she cheated".


When I ask if she was trying to force your hand to D , it was not to run off with someone else. It was so she can punish herself. We hear over and over from WWs that they thought the marriage was over and that thought their BH stopped loving them or would not be able to forgive them. Some WW would rather divorce than to do the hard work of helping to heal their spouse and family.

The sister and her boyfriend were so against it that they made it happen? A SIL who had her sister’s well-being in mind would have bent over backwards to prevent adultery, especially with a young child in the picture.


----------



## Evinrude58

Your sister in law and wife’s friend were repeatedly introducing her to men and they knew she was having sex with them, while married to you. They knew the men were married as well. What does that tell you about your wife, your wife’s friends, and your wife’s family?
Their morals are totally corrupt. 
You can take your wife back, and she can say whatever, but the friends and family she has, along with her own lack of character—— that doesn’t get fixed Fast or without traumatic events occurring that lead to the desire to change.
Birds if a feather flock together. I’m sorry to say your wife’s flock she flies with are not the best specimens.

Your wife will doubtless revert to her cheating ways as soon as the heat cools down.
It’s your choice. 
Don’t choose poorly again…. Change your stars sir.


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> The sister and her boyfriend were so against it that they made it happen? A SIL who had her sister’s well-being in mind would have bent over backwards to prevent adultery, especially with a young child in the picture.


They are broken people, that's all I can say. BUT, it was her who set this up (at least with the last guy), it was not them.


----------



## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> Your sister in law and wife’s friend were repeatedly introducing her to men and they knew she was having sex with them, while married to you. They knew the men were married as well. What does that tell you about your wife, your wife’s friends, and your wife’s family?
> Their morals are totally corrupt.
> You can take your wife back, and she can say whatever, but the friends and family she has, along with her own lack of character—— that doesn’t get fixed Fast or without traumatic events occurring that lead to the desire to change.
> Birds if a feather flock together. I’m sorry to say your wife’s flock she flies with are not the best specimens.
> 
> Your wife will doubtless revert to her cheating ways as soon as the heat cools down.
> It’s your choice.
> Don’t choose poorly again…. Change your stars sir.


I can't and do not know what it is the whole history, I know for sure that the last encounter that I did find out it was her all over, it was not her sister and or boyfriend, she set it up. 

It will not be fair for me to basically blame other people but herself over the decisions she made.


----------



## Evinrude58

fido3039 said:


> I can't and do not know what it is the whole history, I know for sure that the last encounter that I did find out it was her all over, it was not her sister and or boyfriend, she set it up.
> 
> It will not be fair for me to basically blame other people but herself over the decisions she made.


You can’t blame someone for setting up your wife with other men? I don’t have any problem with that at all. Yes, your wife is 100% at fault for cheating , but they are 100% at fault for encouraging and enabling her cheating. I’d cut those oriole out of my life or die trying. Introducing other men for her to “date”…….. that’s encouraging. .


----------



## loblawbobblog

Evinrude58 said:


> You can’t blame someone for setting up your wife with other men? I don’t have any problem with that at all. Yes, your wife is 100% at fault for cheating , but they are 100% at fault for encouraging and enabling her cheating. I’d cut those oriole out of my life or die trying. Introducing other men for her to “date”…….. that’s encouraging. .


Yes. My wife's best friend did the same, she introduced her to the guy she first cheated on me with, and a whole new social circle, in fact. The friend was going through a divorce and pulled my wife into her new partying/dating lifestyle, encouraging my wife to go out with her to bars and double dating with my wife and the OM. I still blame my wife solely for cheating, but I've never forgiven her friend for participating. Luckily they had a falling out and she's no longer in our lives. The fact that it's your wife's sister makes it worse for you in that she'll always be around.


----------



## jsmart

loblawbobblog said:


> Sure thing.


This brought a smile to my face. Where else but TAM can you help a younger version of yourself and also be helping yourself. @fido3039 is where you were over 20 years ago. While I think it’s too soon to be talking about R yet, he can let her prove through actions, that she wants to make things right. Advise from you can help provide a balance of ideas for him to choose from.

What I see as slightly more positive in his situation compared to yours is that his wife came clean of unknown betrayals and never really wanted to end the marriage. Whereas yours wanted to leave and she continued to betray you with additional men during counseling. Something is broken inside of both women. It took 15 years for your wife’s heart to soften towards you. Fido should want to avoid being in a situation like that.


----------



## bygone

Your wife stopped texting men she slept with because she knew she could put men to bed whenever she wanted. It wasn't about one man, she liked to sleep with any man she wanted.

Your wife didn't want a divorce, but she didn't want to stop . She'd be sleeping with 6/7/10 guys in a few months.

when you went to NC! she didn't respect you Did she think the divorce would be final after she found out she cheated.

she is trying to improve communication because you are passive.

Has your wife slept with anyone in NC?

wife relationship partners/friends will get a good closure. You're the only one who's lost self-respect here. A wife who covers everything and says "my wife was looking for what I didn't give" is the dream of cheaters.


----------



## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> You can’t blame someone for setting up your wife with other men? I don’t have any problem with that at all. Yes, your wife is 100% at fault for cheating , but they are 100% at fault for encouraging and enabling her cheating. I’d cut those oriole out of my life or die trying. Introducing other men for her to “date”…….. that’s encouraging. .





Evinrude58 said:


> You can’t blame someone for setting up your wife with other men? I don’t have any problem with that at all. Yes, your wife is 100% at fault for cheating , but they are 100% at fault for encouraging and enabling her cheating. I’d cut those oriole out of my life or die trying. Introducing other men for her to “date”…….. that’s encouraging. .


It is like I said, I dont know the whole history. The little I read, it was my wife all over the guy, not them.


----------



## fido3039

bygone said:


> Has your wife slept with anyone in NC?


I dont understand this question, how would I know that ? It makes no sense even if I ask her.


----------



## jsmart

loblawbobblog said:


> Yes. My wife's best friend did the same, she introduced her to the guy she first cheated on me with, and a whole new social circle, in fact. The friend was going through a divorce and pulled my wife into her new partying/dating lifestyle, encouraging my wife to go out with her to bars and double dating with my wife and the OM. I still blame my wife solely for cheating, but I've never forgiven her friend for participating. Luckily they had a falling out and she's no longer in our lives. The fact that it's your wife's sister makes it worse for you in that she'll always be around.


A divorcing or recently divorced friend is bad news. That she was pulling your wife into the clubbing scene is par for the course. There was a thread on another forum with a husband who’s wife was doing the same with her divorced friend. Luckily cheating didn’t happen but the husband got so concerned that he had a friend go to the club and watch her. Found that she was on what appeared to be a double date. He confronted and she agreed to change her behavior. I say all that so guys to be mindful of who your wife is friends with and to speak up if she’s being corrupted. Never let the controlling card stop you from fighting for your marriage/family.


----------



## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> I dont understand this question, how would I know that ? It makes no sense even if I ask her.


No dude. You MUST confirm if she has stopped all her betraying actions. Including just texting the guys. How can you forgive what you don’t know. That shouldn’t even be optional for you. She should prove to you that all betraying has stopped. 

Don’t gloss over this because you’re afraid of the answer. Communication is so important if you hope to possibly R. Having a face to face conversation about this is important. I’ve read threads of BHs who decades later are having deep regrets of the rug sweeping they did. You don’t want to be that guy.

Ask , confront. Do you have access to all her devices? If not , demand it.


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> No dude. You MUST confirm if she has stopped all her betraying actions. Including just texting the guys. How can you forgive what you don’t know. That shouldn’t even be optional for you. She should prove to you that all betraying has stopped.
> 
> Don’t gloss over this because you’re afraid of the answer. Communication is so important if you hope to possibly R. Having a face to face conversation about this is important. I’ve read threads of BHs who decades later are having deep regrets of the rug sweeping they did. You don’t want to be that guy.
> 
> Ask , confront. Do you have access to all her devices? If not , demand it.


Oh yeah, I get you. But right now, we are separated. We will talk face to face next week about the proposal she is going to make to me. And of course, one of the first thing that is non negotiable if we ever decide to try is to have access the the phone. This is so ridiculous to just ask that I dont know how I would feel about that.


----------



## sokillme

fido3039 said:


> My thoughts too. Now, I ask you in all honesty, is this something that will ever be held back in the brain and will never let go ? Of course it is like you said, all of it. But then I think I could give it a try and see ? What do I loose ? time ?
> 
> Also, i know it will take time and actions for this, not words


I have read these sites about 5 years now and I think the poster who wrote to you was right. I think the answer is if you stay together this will always be a part of your marriage. You won't get over it but some people can learn to live with it. It's not uncommon to read these boards and find people 10, 15 even 30 years out saying it's the first thing they think about in the morning and the last thing at night. I think a lot of that has to do with the person you are married to. If they really change then maybe it's not as bad, but that is because these folks are like a different person. Thing is if you thought they were great before, found out they cheated, and now they pretty much act the same, then how can you tell the change. To me that leaves doubt, because you had no idea they were lyinig in the first place, so I suspect you will wonder is this still an good act. 

I often find it strange that people even ask the question. Look at it like this if you started a business with someone and that partner stole from you. If you chose to stay in business with them do you think it would be realistic that you wouldn't have any fear they would do it again?

I think that many people who have affairs get caught up in magic thinking, and may people who choose to stay in marriages with cheating do the same thing. They think that can go back to a marriage that is gone with a person who no longer exist. Then tragically when it doesn't happy they think it's somehow their fault for not trying hard enough. Don't be that person OP. 

I personally would not believe that I had the whole truth. Cheaters lie and they are good at it. 

But say you do, then first of all you need a contrite and intensly hard working WS since she is a serial cheater, but that is only a requirement, it's not a reason to stay together. That is entirely up to her. 

I suggest you detach, that is entirely up to you. Get to the point where you know you will be find without her, talk to a lawyer and know your rights. Then make your decision from a point of strength, not fear. Make the decision because you want to and not because of all you have to lose. I would make my decision based on the quality of my life moving forward. I personally know now from being cheated on that I am not a person who can get over it. But maybe you are different. 

One thing I will tell you from having moved on is you can get over it 100% if you do. I never think about it, except when I am on here giving advice. I don't think I missed out on anything. It's just something ****ty that someone whom I loved at the time did to me. But I overcame it. 

It's your life.


----------



## fido3039

sokillme said:


> I have read these sites about 5 years now and I think the poster who wrote to you was right. I think the answer is if you stay together this will always be a part of your marriage. You won't get over it but some people can learn to live with it. It's not uncommon to read these boards and find people 10, 15 even 30 years out saying it's the first thing they think about in the morning and the last thing at night. I think a lot of that has to do with the person you are married to. If they really change then maybe it's not as bad, but that is because these folks are like a different person. Thing is if you thought they were great before, found out they cheated, and now they pretty much act the same, then how can you tell the change. To me that leaves doubt, because you had no idea they were lyinig in the first place, so I suspect you will wonder is this still an good act.
> 
> I often find it strange that people even ask the question. Look at it like this if you started a business with someone and that partner stole from you. If you chose to stay in business with them do you think it would be realistic that you wouldn't have any fear they would do it again?
> 
> I think that many people who have affairs get caught up in magic thinking, and may people who choose to stay in marriages with cheating do the same thing. They think that can go back to a marriage that is gone with a person who no longer exist. Then tragically when it doesn't happy they think it's somehow their fault for not trying hard enough. Don't be that person OP.
> 
> I personally would not believe that I had the whole truth. Cheaters lie and they are good at it.
> 
> But say you do, then first of all you need a contrite and intensly hard working WS since she is a serial cheater, but that is only a requirement, it's not a reason to stay together. That is entirely up to her.
> 
> I suggest you detach, that is entirely up to you. Get to the point where you know you will be find without her, talk to a lawyer and know your rights. Then make your decision from a point of strength, not fear. Make the decision because you want to and not because of all you have to lose. I would make my decision based on the quality of my life moving forward. I personally know now from being cheated on that I am not a person who can get over it. But maybe you are different.
> 
> One thing I will tell you from having moved on is you can get over it 100% if you do. I never think about it, except when I am on here giving advice. I don't think I missed out on anything. It's just something ****ty that someone whom I loved at the time did to me. But I overcame it.
> 
> It's your life.


Thanks a lot for this type of opinion, I really appreciate it and you put it into words beautifully


----------



## Marc878

Do you really want to be married to someone you can’t trust? Being a marriage warden is a thankless task. 
It sounds like you value this marriage (if you can call it that) more than she does.


----------



## fido3039

Marc878 said:


> Do you really want to be married to someone you can’t trust? Being a marriage warden is a thankless task.
> It sounds like you value this marriage (if you can call it that) more than she does.


I know and understand this will be just plain hard, I am a loving person and I trust people, always have, so it will be extremely hard to live like this, I will be miserable. I just want to believe that something extraordinary is possible (if I ever decide to try it). There is obviously a long history and details between us that only we know, and of course not having the whole context I understand might leave to some opinions, but I appreciate them all


----------



## loblawbobblog

sokillme said:


> You won't get over it but some people can learn to live with it. It's not uncommon to read these boards and find people 10, 15 even 30 years out saying it's the first thing they think about in the morning and the last thing at night. I think a lot of that has to do with the person you are married to.


This is me right now. I should say it wasn't always like this after my wife's cheating. I went for years not really thinking about it much, raising kids and having a fairly normal marriage. But about 6 months ago, I started a downward spiral of middle-age regret about a lot of things, not just how I acted after discovering my wife's infidelity, and I started obsessing over it, which led to snooping, which led to the discovery of the serial cheating during that time that I was previously unaware of. My point is that it may seem right now that you can get past this, and maybe for some time you will, but it's very likely to come back to bite you at some point in your life. My advice is not to risk that, to not spend precious years of your life courting this potential emotional peril, at which point you'll find yourself further down the road of life with fewer years left. Don't be me, in other words.


----------



## sokillme

loblawbobblog said:


> This is me right now. I should say it wasn't always like this after my wife's cheating. I went for years not really thinking about it much, raising kids and having a fairly normal marriage. But about 6 months ago, I started a downward spiral of middle-age regret about a lot of things, not just how I acted after discovering my wife's infidelity, and I started obsessing over it, which led to snooping, which led to the discovery of the serial cheating during that time that I was previously unaware of. My point is that it may seem right now that you can get past this, and maybe for some time you will, but it's very likely to come back to bite you at some point in your life. My advice is not to risk that, to not spend precious years of your life courting this potential emotional peril, at which point you'll find yourself further down the road of life with fewer years left. Don't be me, in other words.


My theory is most people have mid life crises the difference is if you spouse cheated it's really really hard to justify your choices and the temptation is worse. 

If you are saying she hid her serial cheating then your wife effectively stole your agency twice, first by cheating and then by hiding her additional cheating. That is really rough.


----------



## Beach123

fido3039 said:


> No, nothing does. But I am so confused regarding that I know that she ****ed up and it is facing the consequences and for some reason this has make a wake up call on her.


nope. This is who she IS.
There isn’t one single reason to go back for more. When things get tough again - she will cheat again.

just be done with her and focus on being a great dad.


----------



## ABHale

fido3039 said:


> My thoughts too. Now, I ask you in all honesty, is this something that will ever be held back in the brain and will never let go ? Of course it is like you said, all of it. But then I think I could give it a try and see ? What do I loose ? time ?
> 
> Also, i know it will take time and actions for this, not words


Your self respect.

It is one thing when the cheater keeps it a secret. The only two that know are the cheater and lover.

It is completely different when everyone around the cheater knows including family. Especially when some of them were helping your cheating wife cheat.

Do you honestly believe that any of them, including your wife will respect you after this. They didn’t before this so why should they afterwards. Great chance it will get back to your son with all of these people in the know. I was 4 when my parents divorced, I knew why by the time I was 8. Families gossip and kids figure things out.


----------



## Marc878

fido3039 said:


> I know and understand this will be just plain hard, I am a loving person and I trust people, always have, so it will be extremely hard to live like this, I will be miserable. I just want to believe that something extraordinary is possible (if I ever decide to try it). There is obviously a long history and details between us that only we know, and of course not having the whole context I understand might leave to some opinions, but I appreciate them all


Most everyone thinks their situation is complicated, special or different. Sorry, but these situations follow the same script. Just the name, locations are different.


----------



## sokillme

OP I believe if one of your core beliefs was it was a deal breaker before it happened, then that doesn't change, you will just have to go against your core beliefs to stay.


----------



## Marc878

fido3039 said:


> I know and understand this will be just plain hard, I am a loving person and I trust people, always have, so it will be extremely hard to live like this, I will be miserable. I just want to believe that something extraordinary is possible (if I ever decide to try it). There is obviously a long history and details between us that only we know, and of course not having the whole context I understand might leave to some opinions, but I appreciate them all


It doesn’t seem like you are looking for advice or insight. You seem to be looking for someone to verify taking a serial cheater back is your best option. 
No one here has any skin in this. You don’t need anyones permission. Its your life. 
You have a lot of veteran posters who’ve given you solid advice. They’ve been where you are. 
Ignore it at your peril.


----------



## fido3039

ABHale said:


> Your self respect.
> 
> It is one thing when the cheater keeps it a secret. The only two that know are the cheater and lover.
> 
> It is completely different when everyone around the cheater knows including family. Especially when some of them were helping your cheating wife cheat.
> 
> Do you honestly believe that any of them, including your wife will respect you after this. They didn’t before this so why should they afterwards. Great chance it will get back to your son with all of these people in the know. I was 4 when my parents divorced, I knew why by the time I was 8. Families gossip and kids figure things out.


Some context: not everyone around her knew it, a sister knew about the last one (that I found) and a co-worker knew about the first two (she introduced both; as a matter of fact, she confessed this all to me without me having any details or asking). And to be honest, I could care less about they both respecting me or not, this is a decision for me (and ultimately for her) to do.


----------



## Marc878

fido3039 said:


> Some context: not everyone around her knew it, a sister knew about the last one (that I found) and a co-worker knew about the first two (she introduced both; as a matter of fact, she confessed this all to me without me having any details or asking). And to be honest, I could care less about they both respecting me or not, this is a decision for me (and ultimately for her) to do.


Nothing changes the facts though does it?


----------



## fido3039

sokillme said:


> OP I believe if one of your core beliefs was it was a deal breaker before it happened, then that doesn't change, you will just have to go against your core beliefs to stay.


I was blindsided all the way that I never talk or even thought about infidelity before, not with her or not with anybody else.


----------



## fido3039

Marc878 said:


> Nothing changes the facts though does it?


Right, I just wanted to clarify in case I have not explained that point before


----------



## fido3039

Marc878 said:


> It doesn’t seem like you are looking for advice or insight. You seem to be looking for someone to verify taking a serial cheater back is your best option.
> No one here has any skin in this. You don’t need anyones permission. Its your life.
> You have a lot of veteran posters who’ve given you solid advice. They’ve been where you are.
> Ignore it at your peril.


No, don't get me wrong, feedback is extremely appreciated. In fact, there are lots of comments here that have enlightened me in some aspects that I was ignoring, and for that, i thank you all.


----------



## Asterix

fido3039 said:


> Her sister is connected to the affair I found, yes. BUT, I told her regarding how does she believes they (their family) would see me now and she told me that her sister and boyfriend where always against that and it was her decision, and not them.


There's one saying, in the best of the cases, "trust, but verify". In this case, your wife's word isn't worth a dime. So, I think it is in your best interests to talk to SIL's boyfriend first as a man-to-man and then talk to her sister. I would even go one step ahead and let her mother know the extent of your wife's cheating and your SIL's involvement in your wife's affairs. You do not owe a cheater to keep their secrets.



bygone said:


> Your wife didn't want a divorce, but she didn't want to stop . She'd be sleeping with 6/7/10 guys in a few months.
> 
> Has your wife slept with anyone in NC?


@fido3039 , this is an important point to consider. If you hadn't looked through her phone, then for all you know, she would have slept with 4-5 more people in the mean time.



fido3039 said:


> I know and understand this will be just plain hard, I am a loving person and I trust people, always have, so it will be extremely hard to live like this, I will be miserable


I understand that you are a loving and trusting person. The question is this: is your wife worth the love and trust that you've invested in her. 

I see this huge concern here: I think that the general consensus and the drift of the suggestions in this thread seem to have lost on you. We all tend to think that we are special and our cases are special. Unfortunately, the reality if far from that. What your wife did is just the garden variety of cheating, The way she tried to cover her @s$ after you found out is also very garden variety. There's nothing special about it. What is different and despicable is that her own sister introduced her to affair partners. DON'T let your wife tell you that it's all her, which it is by the way. But if her sister was a friend of your marriage and had a modicum of respect towards you, then she would have bent over backwards to c-block your wife's efforts to cheat. She might even have considered talking to you to let you know what was going on. The fact that she didn't do any of these things tells me a lot. 

Just in case if you feel that we are just angry men asking you to break up, I'd even suggest to you that there are other forums and websites that you can go and make a post with all these details. See, if you would get a different consensus at those forums and websites. I'd bet my bottom dollar that you'll hear about the same or similar consensus everywhere. 

You reminded me of a saying, which I believe that I am an example of: "I used to be young and naive, now I'm not so young anymore".


----------



## Marc878

You have a battle between your brain and heart. Your heart will betray you in these situations.
Right now you are looking for an excuse or reason to stay.


----------



## sokillme

Marc878 said:


> You have a battle between your brain and heart. Your heart will betray you in these situations.
> Right now you are looking for an excuse or reason to stay.


I will add if you follow your brain your heart will be forced to catch up.


----------



## Wolfman1968

fido3039 said:


> I need to point out a few things you said: she has sex ONCE with a guy she met at a bar. The other 3 guys, two of them got introduced by her friend, and one of them by one of their sister. I never said all them were at a bar. I got myself an STD and I am clean. I asked her to do the same. The reason I said this is the first time she did this is because I know how her behaviour changed from October, she turned into a different person. Of course I have to believe what she said.


Think of what that means. She was telling other people--her friends, her sister---that she was looking for other sexual partners. And they assisted her by finding dudes for her to bang.

That means she was broadcasting her dissatisfaction with you sexually. But not dissatisfied enough with you to cut your out of your "breadwinner" role, which is why, as you say, she never intended to leave you for them. 

Put yourself in the place of the other women. Your friend/sibling says that there's trouble at home/in the bedroom. What would most people normally recommend? I think the first inclination would be to suggest some sort of counseling. The next inclination would be to advise divorce. It would only be a rare situation in which you would agree to be a "pimp/procurer" for your friend/sibling and start setting them up for some liaisons. Yet, this happened THREE times? What are the odds?

1. These other two women must really have contempt for you for them to plot your downfall like this with your wife.
2. Your wife must really have contempt for you in the bedroom to seek out MULTIPLE guys. It wasn't for some emotional connection that she was missing--otherwise it would be just one guy. 
3. Your wife has developed a TASTE for cheating/multiple sex partners. Otherwise it wouldn't be so many guys in such a short time.
4. If your wife doesn't need or even want you as a sexual partner, then what is your use for her? Just as a breadwinner, most likely. You're there to give her a comfortable lifestyle which she seeks sexual excitement from other guys.

In view of #2, 3, 4, do you think that she will ever be satisfied with just you as a sexual partner alone? I can't see that happening. At most, she would unwillingly restrict herself just so she doesn't lose her breadwinner and her comfortable lifestyle, but is THAT the sort of life you want? Her always longing for other guys?

You will never be able to trust her. In fact, in view of #1 above, there will always be ready accomplices to help her cheat again should she want to. They probably hate you (since they assisted her cheating on you), so they may even encourage it. They wouldn't have helped her treat you like dirt unless they had no care for you as a human being. What are the odds that these are the only two people on the planet that she's been badmouthing you to? There may be others that have heard her, but haven't moved to the "pimp/procurer" role for her. 

Really, this is so egregious, I don't see any way around this.
Reconciliation is unrealistic..
She wouldn't be reconciling with you as a spouse or a sexual partner. She'd only be reconciling with a source of income/lifestyle.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Fido, just remember one thing.

The VAST majority of the posters here have been through problems. Many other them, if not most, were victims of infidelity themselves. They are giving you the benefit of THEIR experience. 
That's why it is so important to note that the overwhelming majority are telling you to divorce and move on. That means the odds favor you moving on.

If you ignore their advice, your odds of succeeding are low. Not zero, but low. 

Everyone who goes to Las Vegas thinks they will beat the odds. But only a small minority do, that's why the casinos stay in business. 

You only get one life. It is valuable to you. Would you put your entire fortune, your home and your future on one number on the roulette table at Las Vegas? You MIGHT win, but the odds are much, much more that you will lose. And if you lose, you lose EVERYTHING. 

If you try to reconcile, you're doing the equivalent thing of putting all your future on that one roulette number.

And remember: It seems overwhelming to contemplate losing your marriage, sharing custody of your child, etc. But the posters here have faced those SAME type of situations. And they came out ok on the other end. That's why they are advising you as they are.


----------



## gr8ful1

loblawbobblog said:


> But about 6 months ago, I started a downward spiral of middle-age regret about a lot of things, not just how I acted after discovering my wife's infidelity, and I started obsessing over it, which led to snooping, which led to the discovery of the serial cheating during that time that I was previously unaware of.


Why are you staying with her now after finding out she’s been lying (and therefore unrepentant) the entire time?


----------



## ABHale

fido3039 said:


> Some context: not everyone around her knew it, a sister knew about the last one (that I found) and a co-worker knew about the first two (she introduced both; as a matter of fact, she confessed this all to me without me having any details or asking). And to be honest, I could care less about they both respecting me or not, this is a decision for me (and ultimately for her) to do.


Do you honestly believe they didn’t tell any one else?!?!?!

Between your wife’s sister and friend, I would guess that a few dozen know from them. Word of mouth, the more dirty the gossip the faster it travels. As for the guys she was with, they’re bragging about your wife to their friends and they are passing it around as well.


----------



## Rus47

ABHale said:


> Do you honestly believe they didn’t tell any one else?!?!?!
> 
> Between your wife’s sister and friend, I would guess that a few dozen know from them. Word of mouth, the more dirty the gossip the faster it travels. As for the guys she was with, they’re bragging about your wife to their friends and they are passing it around as well.


Most everyone at “work” and a large percentage of people in town know the juicy story. OP is the only one not in the loop, all the guys and their buddies are laughing


----------



## Kaliber

fido3039 said:


> Also, regarding serial cheater, assume she had no history prior to these incidents - is she in fact a serial cheater ? Like I said, we have been together since her late teens and I have never doubted her, not me or any family or friends. The few friends and family that knows about this and that knows her are as shocked as I am.


@fido3039 I have read hundreds of stories over the years from betrayed men, your wife sleeping with four men in a span of couple of months indicates that this is not her first cheating spree!
Usually women when they first start cheating they take it slow and start with one guy!
Her boldness indicates that she has past experience that you don't know about!

My advice:
*Don't pay the FULL price for something that other men (yes, not one man) got for free!* (set back and think about this!)


----------



## RandomDude

Kaliber said:


> @fido3039 I have read hundreds of stories over the years from betrayed men, your wife sleeping with four men in a span of couple of months indicates that this is not her first cheating spree!
> Usually women when they first start cheating they take it slow and start with one guy!
> Her boldness indicates that she has past experience that you don't know about!
> 
> My advice:
> *Don't pay the FULL price for something that other men (yes, not one man) got for free!* (set back and think about this!)


Aye, tip of the iceberg. Sorry.


----------



## seadoug105

RandomDude said:


> Aye, tip of the iceberg. Sorry.
> 
> View attachment 86662


From what is exposed already this iceberg has it’s own gravitational force.


----------



## truststone

fido3039 said:


> Yes, that is true, but I am also a firmly believer that "the grass is greener on the other side" so perhaps I was hoping for an scenario where she would show true remorse about the loss of what she did


even if she did why does that matter what do you think you are teaching your kids . you only know of 4 can you swear there are no more ?? obviously no !!! now ask yourself why that is?? imagine down the road you find out more that theres more that you dont know and it devasted you what do you that impact will be towards you kids? what if you guys are going through a tough patch and she cheats and fall in love that person ? what do you think wil happen to the family unit your trying to save with someone who dosesnt value it as much as you do!!! she is only remorseful because you found out not that it happened you must know that !!! plus look at the amount of times it wasnt as if she meet one guy one day slept with him 2x and thats it !!! it was over a spam of time seriously just think about that for a moment!!! if you have rd other mens stories about cheating she is exhibitng texbook behaviour and so are you .. dont be fooled once is enough and hard enough to work out and build that trust again ... *trust that she easily* violated and that is not a little thing otherwise what is your relationship built on???? if its not trust how can you have love ???? even if she is remorseful you need to seperate how can you even heal if you havent dealt with it .. im soo confused i understand you have kids but as a parent you must make sure they understand and never settled with someone that cheats !!!she probably has always been doing this and you just never knew ? im sure she cheated on you on her bacheloreetle party if she had one... poeple dont just cheat sure someone makes a mistake but serially cheating c'mom i have a hard time believing they will change especially since there have been no consequences when it comes to .. ofcourse she doesnt what you to leave you are the one making the money.. she will be remorseful but that is not the reason you go back its the value put on trust dont you see that !! sorry for being harsh i know its tough right now for you and NOT your fault . but if you go back knowing all this and it messes up your kids you then play a major role in it.. right now you have dont nothing wrong you are not perfect but you have not violated your vows .. one day she may cheat again and confince herself it was a mistake but she could also convince herself she loves the other man then what????


----------



## truststone

fido3039 said:


> It is one of the things I am so confused about. I know for sure that the woman I loved was not this woman, and for some reason I am believing on what she is telling me. I know I wont be the same person that trusted her deeply, and she knows this, so I believe that she knows what we are going to if we decide to reconcile and give it a try, she wont have it easy. This was the first and ever time she cheated, I can ensure you this.


you dont know that thats the problem !!! just think about that for a moment


----------



## truststone

fido3039 said:


> I asked every detail, and she confessed. They all knew she was married, according to her.


thats what the liar told you ?? did she tell you who they are ???


----------



## truststone

fido3039 said:


> Yes, this is absolutely true and I agree. Everytime, it was her chasing them, not the other way around.


if it were her chasing them c'mon thats worse she wanted it more than you are willing to tell yourself not while dating but while you are married please ubderstand what you are saying !!


----------



## truststone

fido3039 said:


> I am the one implementing the NC and following through, she is damn sure that I am only willing to do this for the family and kids sake initially. Reason she says that she will only do it for us.


do it for us SMh how about doing it to rebuild trust and councelling to herself get rid of those tendecies smh


----------



## truststone

fido3039 said:


> She didn't know these guys, they were introduced by a friend. Yes, they still work together. But like I said, I truly believe it was her chasing them. I even asked her what did she look for on those guys, and she said they just listened to her and that's it.


are those guys married if so u need to tell their SO


----------



## re16

OP, I want nothing more than the best for you and your son, but it seems like reality is not sinking in with you.

She lies and you accept it.
She gaslights and you accept it.
She has sex with other men and you accept it.
Her friends and family hide this from you and you accept it.

Her behavior is deplorable, but your behavior is weak... and to be honest, I think your problem is bigger than hers.

Being scared to contact the wives of those men that cheated with her, being scared to not be with her... your life is based on fear, yet you fear the wrong thing... you should fear staying with her, not being without her.

I think the only hope here is that she leaves you and you are forced to move on in a different direction.

If not, you will just accept her and allow her to repeatedly do this to you. You are setting yourself up for a years of pain unnecessarily.


----------



## truststone

it hurts me beacsue your a good guy trying your hardest to find a reason .any in many instances to justify staying . you say your kid is the reason so your willing to keep your kid in an unhealthy environment ???? SERIOUSLY if your kid was truly your reason their well being mentally emotionally etc would guide your actions. nowhere there does it suggest living them in a toxic environment.. the damage it will cause them is hard to imagine !!i have a friend who went through something like you , she cheated several times he forgave because of his daughter he belived she had changed and 20 yrs after he found out that was not the case .. it destroyed him he is the kinda guy that always wants or try to find a way to forgive .. the sad news is now his daughter sometimes blames him beacuse she is soo messed up now.. i know she only says it when she gets mad but it destroys him even further.. i think his daughter is so mad because now he is a mess and she misses her dad . she doesnt blame him for her mons actions just wished he had left long time ago because she says to me she always knew something but just thought it was her dad that was cold to mom and couldnt understand why he couldnt be like other dads who showed signs of loving their wife(he was that way when he went through periods of remembering and when his wife worked lsate or went on business trips) .. i know i know what your saying but it did affect her even though his reason was to stay. and now that he found out and left her it devastates him how much it hurt his daughter.. so please dont keep you son in an toxic environment.. trust is only built when 2 people are completley honest with themslves and the other person completley. 

i know you dont want the other families to know but get your wife to tell them then when your around and record it...truth releases everyone and healing begins .. thats the problem with cheating it doesnt just affect the person that has been cheated on it affects alot of people and you see that now.. if you really want to heal eveybody involved needs to know and then you need to block and remove them all from your life and in my opinion see if your wife does it on her own accord- blocking them .. you never want to be in a position of telling them what to do your not their parent . i'm also surprised she hasnt done that already if she is truly remorseful ?? doenst make sense please help me understand why she hasnt ?? why she hasnt' blocked them all from her life.. 

moving forward means means just that ... clean slate if she cant tell the other SO then your helping her keep things again and that is the behaviour you dont want.. in my humble opionion if u dont want to let them know okay then just move on leave this lady and dont risk your sons mental status by staying with someone that you to be honest dont really know !! sorry gin for being harsh but im trying to be honest .. my friend would tell you the same thing its a lie you have convinved yourself of what it might be and thats just it , its a lie isnt that ironic ????


----------



## 86857

Gee @Fido, what a nightmare. So sorry to read this. 
You're mostly worried for your son, understandably. 
50% of marriages end in divorce. It's totally possible to raise happy kids via co-parenting. 
I raised 3, youngest was only 3 yrs old when I left. All are very successful now & all say they had a very happy childhood.
You're a good Dad, she's a good Mom. That's a great start. Just never argue in front of him. . . ever. The rest falls into place. 
We did 50:50. I had them for a week, then he did.
I tried various options to see what THEY preferred, not us. They really liked the one week about.
It was good to give them options too because after all they were caught up in it! 
It made them feel good to have input. Kids are far more aware of things than we give them credit for, even when very young. 

Probably all 3 of you would be happier that way tbh.
Remember this. . . for a kid to be happy, Dad needs to be happy. Your happiness isn't only for you. 

But. . . you said you might regret down the track that you didn't try something. 
You could try staying 6 months. It's not long. It would be for YOU, not her, so you don't have any regrets. 
See what she does, see if you can find out more eg get her to give you her phone records/email going back years etc . . .if you want. 
Maybe she's telling the truth but cheaters lie so much and rarely tell all. . . you know the score. . . 
I just think it might be good for you to see how it felt so that when you do go, you'll have no regrets. 
Just to prove it to yourself & avoid regrets. Btw, I don't believe in R, saying this cos you said bout feeling guilty in the future. 

I used to think if my husband cheated, I'd prefer if he had eg 4 one-night stands with 4 different women, rather than sleeping 4 times with the same woman. Because there'd be no emotional connection. 
But you know what? I'd never stay either way. Tbh it doesn't matter to me if it was 1,3,15 times, 3,4,5 APs. Whatever. Betrayal is betrayal. . . period.
In fact, even if it was only one EA I'd still walk, no question.
You know why? Because even if they change, even if they never cheated again, I'd never feel 100% easy in my mind. And I wouldn't want to live that way. 
Life is too short. You're young, you're a great Dad, you've got a great kid. Just make sure to get 50:50 custody.
Finally, there are plenty of good women out there. 

Hang in there, it was surely a big shock but you are sounding calmer.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

@fido3039 how are you doing?


----------



## Cynthia

fido3039 said:


> You can not imagine, man. The lack of sleep is eating me alive. I have so much uncertainty that is killing me. Uncertain on what to do or what to believe. All I want is to somehow get my family back, but I understand it will never be the same, and it will take lots of time and effort.


You are uncertain, because you know she is an extremely poor risk for reconciliation. Once you make a decision to move on with divorce, you will start feeling better. I recommend you make a plan for helping your son get through this and how to spend plenty of time with him going forward. Your main issue is the health of your son. You do not need to remain married in order for him to be healthy, but it will take a deliberate and conscious effort on your part. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## fido3039

truststone said:


> even if she did why does that matter what do you think you are teaching your kids . you only know of 4 can you swear there are no more ?? obviously no !!! now ask yourself why that is?? imagine down the road you find out more that theres more that you dont know and it devasted you what do you that impact will be towards you kids? what if you guys are going through a tough patch and she cheats and fall in love that person ? what do you think wil happen to the family unit your trying to save with someone who dosesnt value it as much as you do!!! she is only remorseful because you found out not that it happened you must know that !!! plus look at the amount of times it wasnt as if she meet one guy one day slept with him 2x and thats it !!! it was over a spam of time seriously just think about that for a moment!!! if you have rd other mens stories about cheating she is exhibitng texbook behaviour and so are you .. dont be fooled once is enough and hard enough to work out and build that trust again ... *trust that she easily* violated and that is not a little thing otherwise what is your relationship built on???? if its not trust how can you have love ???? even if she is remorseful you need to seperate how can you even heal if you havent dealt with it .. im soo confused i understand you have kids but as a parent you must make sure they understand and never settled with someone that cheats !!!she probably has always been doing this and you just never knew ? im sure she cheated on you on her bacheloreetle party if she had one... poeple dont just cheat sure someone makes a mistake but serially cheating c'mom i have a hard time believing they will change especially since there have been no consequences when it comes to .. ofcourse she doesnt what you to leave you are the one making the money.. she will be remorseful but that is not the reason you go back its the value put on trust dont you see that !! sorry for being harsh i know its tough right now for you and NOT your fault . but if you go back knowing all this and it messes up your kids you then play a major role in it.. right now you have dont nothing wrong you are not perfect but you have not violated your vows .. one day she may cheat again and confince herself it was a mistake but she could also convince herself she loves the other man then what????


Thanks for all the insights, really appreciate it, as you said, no need to be harsh to make some points. It is so unfortunate that trust is not the same for everybody.


----------



## fido3039

truststone said:


> thats what the liar told you ?? did she tell you who they are ???


Yeah, she told me who they were every single one of them. I didnt want to know very much detail. For me, it doesn't matter.


----------



## fido3039

truststone said:


> if it were her chasing them c'mon thats worse she wanted it more than you are willing to tell yourself not while dating but while you are married please ubderstand what you are saying !!


Absolutely, I fully agree.


----------



## fido3039

truststone said:


> do it for us SMh how about doing it to rebuild trust and councelling to herself get rid of those tendecies smh


She promised a lot of things back then. I am still waiting for her _proposal_ just to see what she will come up with. I already have a list of things that I know she will left out, just to tell her.


----------



## fido3039

truststone said:


> are those guys married if so u need to tell their SO


I dont really know and really dont care. I have already expressed I am not interested in any consequences for them.


----------



## fido3039

re16 said:


> OP, I want nothing more than the best for you and your son, but it seems like reality is not sinking in with you.
> 
> She lies and you accept it.
> She gaslights and you accept it.
> She has sex with other men and you accept it.
> Her friends and family hide this from you and you accept it.
> 
> Her behavior is deplorable, but your behavior is weak... and to be honest, I think your problem is bigger than hers.
> 
> Being scared to contact the wives of those men that cheated with her, being scared to not be with her... your life is based on fear, yet you fear the wrong thing... you should fear staying with her, not being without her.
> 
> I think the only hope here is that she leaves you and you are forced to move on in a different direction.
> 
> If not, you will just accept her and allow her to repeatedly do this to you. You are setting yourself up for a years of pain unnecessarily.


I am working on myself currently. I have been coping with accepting the reality of things.


----------



## fido3039

truststone said:


> it hurts me beacsue your a good guy trying your hardest to find a reason .any in many instances to justify staying . you say your kid is the reason so your willing to keep your kid in an unhealthy environment ???? SERIOUSLY if your kid was truly your reason their well being mentally emotionally etc would guide your actions. nowhere there does it suggest living them in a toxic environment.. the damage it will cause them is hard to imagine !!i have a friend who went through something like you , she cheated several times he forgave because of his daughter he belived she had changed and 20 yrs after he found out that was not the case .. it destroyed him he is the kinda guy that always wants or try to find a way to forgive .. the sad news is now his daughter sometimes blames him beacuse she is soo messed up now.. i know she only says it when she gets mad but it destroys him even further.. i think his daughter is so mad because now he is a mess and she misses her dad . she doesnt blame him for her mons actions just wished he had left long time ago because she says to me she always knew something but just thought it was her dad that was cold to mom and couldnt understand why he couldnt be like other dads who showed signs of loving their wife(he was that way when he went through periods of remembering and when his wife worked lsate or went on business trips) .. i know i know what your saying but it did affect her even though his reason was to stay. and now that he found out and left her it devastates him how much it hurt his daughter.. so please dont keep you son in an toxic environment.. trust is only built when 2 people are completley honest with themslves and the other person completley.
> 
> i know you dont want the other families to know but get your wife to tell them then when your around and record it...truth releases everyone and healing begins .. thats the problem with cheating it doesnt just affect the person that has been cheated on it affects alot of people and you see that now.. if you really want to heal eveybody involved needs to know and then you need to block and remove them all from your life and in my opinion see if your wife does it on her own accord- blocking them .. you never want to be in a position of telling them what to do your not their parent . i'm also surprised she hasnt done that already if she is truly remorseful ?? doenst make sense please help me understand why she hasnt ?? why she hasnt' blocked them all from her life..
> 
> moving forward means means just that ... clean slate if she cant tell the other SO then your helping her keep things again and that is the behaviour you dont want.. in my humble opionion if u dont want to let them know okay then just move on leave this lady and dont risk your sons mental status by staying with someone that you to be honest dont really know !! sorry gin for being harsh but im trying to be honest .. my friend would tell you the same thing its a lie you have convinved yourself of what it might be and thats just it , its a lie isnt that ironic ????


I appreciate you're expressing hurt for me, really. Regarding the unhealthy environment for the kid, we never fought or anything. I am not the type of person that engages in discussions, I get well easily. Our kid never saw us even having a minimal discussion, because there was never it. 

Yeah, regarding the case of your friend, this is something I am afraid of as well. I wish all the best for my kid, and if that means we will definitively separate, so be it. I just dont see that (as of yet) as my only option, unfortunately. I wish to believe this was due to some mental break down or something, but I just dont know it.


----------



## Evinrude58

Fido,
We hate to see you do this to yourself….. that’s all.


----------



## fido3039

********** said:


> Gee @Fido, what a nightmare. So sorry to read this.
> You're mostly worried for your son, understandably.
> 50% of marriages end in divorce. It's totally possible to raise happy kids via co-parenting.
> I raised 3, youngest was only 3 yrs old when I left. All are very successful now & all say they had a very happy childhood.
> You're a good Dad, she's a good Mom. That's a great start. Just never argue in front of him. . . ever. The rest falls into place.
> We did 50:50. I had them for a week, then he did.
> I tried various options to see what THEY preferred, not us. They really liked the one week about.
> It was good to give them options too because after all they were caught up in it!
> It made them feel good to have input. Kids are far more aware of things than we give them credit for, even when very young.
> 
> Probably all 3 of you would be happier that way tbh.
> Remember this. . . for a kid to be happy, Dad needs to be happy. Your happiness isn't only for you.
> 
> But. . . you said you might regret down the track that you didn't try something.
> You could try staying 6 months. It's not long. It would be for YOU, not her, so you don't have any regrets.
> See what she does, see if you can find out more eg get her to give you her phone records/email going back years etc . . .if you want.
> Maybe she's telling the truth but cheaters lie so much and rarely tell all. . . you know the score. . .
> I just think it might be good for you to see how it felt so that when you do go, you'll have no regrets.
> Just to prove it to yourself & avoid regrets. Btw, I don't believe in R, saying this cos you said bout feeling guilty in the future.
> 
> I used to think if my husband cheated, I'd prefer if he had eg 4 one-night stands with 4 different women, rather than sleeping 4 times with the same woman. Because there'd be no emotional connection.
> But you know what? I'd never stay either way. Tbh it doesn't matter to me if it was 1,3,15 times, 3,4,5 APs. Whatever. Betrayal is betrayal. . . period.
> In fact, even if it was only one EA I'd still walk, no question.
> You know why? Because even if they change, even if they never cheated again, I'd never feel 100% easy in my mind. And I wouldn't want to live that way.
> Life is too short. You're young, you're a great Dad, you've got a great kid. Just make sure to get 50:50 custody.
> Finally, there are plenty of good women out there.
> 
> Hang in there, it was surely a big shock but you are sounding calmer.


Thank you, I appreciate this a lot. Regarding of staying for a period of time, it is good advice, but it is filed with so many uncertainty. I was in for it a couple of days ago, but I am not so sure right now to be honest. If I do it, I will not even do it for me, I will do it for the kid (i know this is wrong as so many others have said, but please, understand, we didn't have an unhealthy environment so I dont know how that would be the case). yeah, the fact still remains: will I regret it if I dont try.

I agree regarding the times of the betrayal, I dont care how many went to be honest, it was and is still a deal-breaker for me if it is just a single one.

Yeah, reaching 40 already I am faced with a lot of uncertainty.


----------



## fido3039

BigDaddyNY said:


> @fido3039 how are you doing?


Filled with uncertainty about the future. That's all.


----------



## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> Fido,
> We hate to see you do this to yourself….. that’s all.


I know. And I feel sorry about myself too, to be honest. I have always been a successful guy, always reached my goals. I just can't believe I have turned into the shell of the man I have been for the last month or so. It is like I have no confidence on myself on the near future. Like will I ever be happy ? will I ever find someone ? it just sucks all around.


----------



## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> Like will I ever be happy ? will I ever find someone ? it just sucks all around.


Yes, yes, and yes.

You will find scores of men ( and women ) on this site who came out the other side of betrayal and are happy and found someone. Even the ones who decided to remain single are happily bonded to a GF ( or BF ). The thing is, a trip of 1000 miles begins with the first step. Until you rid yourself of the anchor holding you back, you can't heal, move on, and find happiness and perhaps someone else. 

You just turned 40. So you likely have that many years of happiness ahead and can forget the crap your cheating wife is putting you through. On the other side of dumping her could be the best years you could imagine. There is a faithful woman cheated on by a worthless husband, just waiting to find a good man like you.

@Numb26, @VintageRetro, @LisaDiane are just a few of many who have come through the fire. There are a lot of other positive stories. But their common thread is not putting up with BS from a cheating spouse, closing that chapter promptly and firmly and moving on with life.


----------



## fido3039

Rus47 said:


> Yes, yes, and yes.
> 
> You will find scores of men ( and women ) on this site who came out the other side of betrayal and are happy and found someone. Even the ones who decided to remain single are happily bonded to a GF ( or BF ). The thing is, a trip of 1000 miles begins with the first step. Until you rid yourself of the anchor holding you back, you can't heal, move on, and find happiness and perhaps someone else.
> 
> You just turned 40. So you likely have that many years of happiness ahead and can forget the crap your cheating wife is putting you through. On the other side of dumping her could be the best years you could imagine. There is a faithful woman cheated on by a worthless husband, just waiting to find a good man like you.
> 
> @Numb26, @VintageRetro, @LisaDiane are just a few of many who have come through the fire. There are a lot of other positive stories. But their common thread is not putting up with BS from a cheating spouse, closing that chapter promptly and firmly and moving on with life.


Hey, I wanted to quote a few things here and there but just found the whole post absolutely encouraging. I appreciate this so much.

Believe me, today I feel so much better than I did yesterday. And post like this make me feel even better. I know that sometimes we definitively want to believe that our situation is different, but so many people can't be wrong. In the aftermath, we are all looking I guess at the same goal: to take the best decision in the present, so that we could live with our past decisions in the future.


----------



## Evinrude58

fido3039 said:


> I know. And I feel sorry about myself too, to be honest. I have always been a successful guy, always reached my goals. I just can't believe I have turned into the shell of the man I have been for the last month or so. It is like I have no confidence on myself on the near future. Like will I ever be happy ? will I ever find someone ? it just sucks all around.


Having felt the same, at about the same agar as you….. with 3 young kids……
I can tell you honestly that the only way you’ll get over this is to move on. Staying will ruin you and you’ll ALWAYS feel a shell of a man.

I hurt more today than I did with my first wife, over a woman I almost married after the ex wife of 18 yrs that I divorced, and finally over that, too. I am an old bald dude, not at all handsome, with a very mediocre job. I date more gorgeous and accomplished women than I ever thought possible now.
It’s gonna hurt for a long time. Accept that. But understand that being singie isn’t bad at all! You get to come home and do what you want, when you want, and you can date whomever you want…

I am actually leaning toward not getting married again, and for a while all I wanted was to have a “family” again.

you have nothing to fear. Divorce her and get happy.


----------



## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> and for a while all I wanted was to have a “family” again


Yep, my current feelings too. Miss the family unit, terrible, and the fact that we had in plans having another kid by next year is crushing.


----------



## truststone

fido3039 said:


> Thanks for all the insights, really appreciate it, as you said, no need to be harsh to make some points. It is so unfortunate that trust is not the same for everybody.


hey im sorry if it came across harsh that was not my intentions and for making you feel that way Sorry.. im just trying to be as delicate as i can and sometimes the truth really hurts. AND i know looking back you will see im on your side . just trying to help you see it more clearly through the fog of pain, uncertainity , fear of making the wrong choice, blaming yourself (its not your fault) , possibly hurting your son , destroying what you cherished and valued the most and the time you have invested towards it by honoring your vows .. its tough and everyones situation and feeling on what they focus on are different. Even though the cause was all the same betrayal , and trust destroyed.. you are good man just try your best to take it day by day for yourself and your son !!


----------



## truststone

fido3039 said:


> She promised a lot of things back then. I am still waiting for her _proposal_ just to see what she will come up with. I already have a list of things that I know she will left out, just to tell her.


quick question what is your reason for waiting for her proposal ?


----------



## fido3039

truststone said:


> quick question what is your reason for waiting for her proposal ?


Just to show her she never really had what it takes to even remediate the situation


----------



## Evinrude58

There should be no proposal your wife could make that you’d accept. You’ve got to choose NOT to accept infidelity if it’s against yiur cote beliefs to do so.


----------



## gr8ful1

fido3039 said:


> I dont really know and really dont care. I have already expressed I am not interested in any consequences for them.


Bet you any amount of cash you will regret this decision one day. Not only is it morally the right thing to do, it’s also a move that helps YOU. Those other SO’s will watch these men like a hawk, assuming they stay together. You remind me of one of my daughters, who will confess she always has to learn the hard way. We’re just trying so hard to stop you from having to learn the hard way….


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## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> There should be no proposal your wife could make that you’d accept. You’ve got to choose NOT to accept infidelity if it’s against yiur cote beliefs to do so.


I am coming to terms with this. If it was just about the infidelity itself.. there is so too much baggage to handle.


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## fido3039

gr8ful1 said:


> Bet you any amount of cash you will regret this decision one day. Not only is it morally the right thing to do, it’s also a move that helps YOU. Those other SO’s will watch these men like a hawk, assuming they stay together. You remind me of one of my daughters, who will confess she always has to learn the hard way. We’re just trying so hard to stop you from having to learn the hard way….


This is my decision. We belong to different type of people (for obvious reason) that we see morals differently. I will not indulge into something that at the very least could bring some additional burden into my life, I dont need that. I will let heaven and God judge them when the time comes, not me.


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## Evinrude58

fido3039 said:


> I am coming to terms with this. If it was just about the infidelity itself.. there is so too much baggage to handle.


I am totally unable to grasp your thinking.

I had three kids. Ages 6-13 when I divorced.
I gave her the opportunity from the time I discovered the I fidelity (supposed emotional but not physical 🤮) to stop. She didn’t abd I found out 4 days later. I didn’t want a divorce. She did. I adored my kids. Broke my heart to see them in another man’s home half the time. I’m very lucky in that their stepdad treats them well and the poor bastard Seems like an alright guy. But Some things I didn’t see as anywhere near bearable, and cheating was one. So even though it killed me to do so, I told her to gtfo (she actually asked me to do that). 

I mean, was I supposed to keep her knowing she was f’ing other dudes and such just so my kids were there too? I never considered that aN option.

we know you’ve been blindsided. That you live your wife and don’t want to see her go.
She is gonna leave anyway when she found another guy to take her who she found attractive. What you are considering (taking her back), isn’t doable. Sge
At cone back, but she will never have strong feelings for you again. I’m sorry, there’s nothing you can do. You’re gonna divorce her EVENTUALLY whether you want to or not.


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## gr8ful1

fido3039 said:


> I will not indulge into something that at the very least could bring some additional burden into my life, I dont need that. I will let heaven and God judge them when the time comes, not me.


So let the world know: if anyone knows any more instances of your wife cheating, they are NOT to tell you. After all, that might (though I don’t know how) bring “additional burden“ into their lives. And since you mention God, yes, I do believe it’s sinful to actively conspire in the cover up of many adulteries. But I doubt you care about that. Again, not judging you, just strongly believe this is a very wrong choice of yours, for multiple reasons.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

fido3039 said:


> This is my decision. We belong to different type of people (for obvious reason) that we see morals differently. I will not indulge into something that at the very least could bring some additional burden into my life, I dont need that. I will let heaven and God judge them when the time comes, not me.


You seem like a good guy, possibly a little naive. It's understandable that you want to do everything to keep your family together. I wanted that too, but it wasn't enough. I'm skeptical it will work out for you, but it's certainly your right to try.

But you have to be willing to walk away anytime she crosses a line or its over for you. Being afraid of losing her or your family will make you a doormat. Don't be a doormat, demand her respect and be clear you will walk away anytime you feel she isn't living up to her side of the bargain. And you might just walk away regardless because she fked a bunch of dudes behind your back.

And do NOT have any more kids in the next year!! This next year is all about you watching her actions and seeing if she is even capable of being not a decent wife but a great wife. Because people that don't cheat can get by with being a decent wife, but cheating wives need excellence and if she can't do that then you bolt and start nailing anything within a 5 mile radius.


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## truststone

not sure im allowed but check this pots out if u can and see if u can identify the similarites anddifferences you both are experiences and see clearly what a choice to stay could mean to you years later Discovered wife serially cheated on me 22 years ago


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## truststone

truststone said:


> not sure im allowed but check this pots out if u can and see if u can identify the similarites anddifferences you both are experiences and see clearly what a choice to stay could mean to you years later Discovered wife serially cheated on me 22 years ago


as a possible outcome


----------



## fido3039

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> You seem like a good guy, possibly a little naive. It's understandable that you want to do everything to keep your family together. I wanted that too, but it wasn't enough. I'm skeptical it will work out for you, but it's certainly your right to try.
> 
> But you have to be willing to walk away anytime she crosses a line or its over for you. Being afraid of losing her or your family will make you a doormat. Don't be a doormat, demand her respect and be clear you will walk away anytime you feel she isn't living up to her side of the bargain. And you might just walk away regardless because she fked a bunch of dudes behind your back.
> 
> And do NOT have any more kids in the next year!! This next year is all about you watching her actions and seeing if she is even capable of being not a decent wife but a great wife. Because people that don't cheat can get by with being a decent wife, but cheating wives need excellence and if she can't do that then you bolt and start nailing anything within a 5 mile radius.


Thanks, this is good thinking. However, I can tell you today that I am more leaning towards leaving than staying, unfortunately. It is like I have said already, it was just not the infidelity, it will take a huge amount of time and effort on my behalf to trust again, if ever. Now, some people I understand fake it for some time or something, but I dont know.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

fido3039 said:


> Thanks, this is good thinking. However, I can tell you today that I am more leaning towards leaving than staying, unfortunately. It is like I have said already, it was just not the infidelity, it will take a huge amount of time and effort on my behalf to trust again, if ever. Now, some people I understand fake it for some time or something, but I dont know.


There is no easy answer. I'm among those that will be quick to say leave, but you have to do you. @UpsideDownWorld11 is absolutely right though. Fear of leaving will most certainly result in you getting walked all over. The main obstacle to overcome if you choose to try for reconciliation is coming to terms with the inability to forget. The infidelity in my past is infinitesimal compared to what you've experienced and had significant mitigating circumstances. Today I have zero trust issues thanks to her actions at the time and over the years, but I still can't ever forget, 35 years later.


----------



## fido3039

truststone said:


> not sure im allowed but check this pots out if u can and see if u can identify the similarites anddifferences you both are experiences and see clearly what a choice to stay could mean to you years later Discovered wife serially cheated on me 22 years ago


Yep, I have read his post, and actually got in contact with him regarding all this.


----------



## fido3039

BigDaddyNY said:


> There is no easy answer. I'm among those that will be quick to say leave, but you have to do you. @UpsideDownWorld11 is absolutely right though. Fear of leaving will most certainly result in you getting walked all over. The main obstacle to overcome if you choose to try for reconciliation is coming to terms with the inability to forget. The infidelity in my past is infinitesimal compared to what you've experienced and had significant mitigating circumstances. Today I have zero trust issues thanks to her actions at the time and over the years, but I still can't ever forget, 35 years later.


I believe you can move on and forgive, but never forget. But I also wonder if this will be something good in the long term - meaning, by not forgetting you might probably be more aware going forward and that could actually work in your favor.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

fido3039 said:


> I believe you can move on and forgive, but never forget. But I also wonder if this will be something good in the long term - meaning, by not forgetting you might probably be more aware going forward and that could actually work in your favor.


Well it can certainly act as a harsh dose of reality. Even those closest to you are human and capable of doing despicable things you never thought they would do. You also have the benefit of hindsight. You can now identify red flags you missed previously and pick up on them quicker in the future.


----------



## colingrant

fido3039 said:


> I believe you can move on and forgive, but never forget. But I also wonder if this will be something good in the long term - meaning, by not forgetting you might probably be more aware going forward and that could actually work in your favor.


This is true. I'm not sure it's possible to forget being betrayed unless one has sustained a head injury compromising there memory. What comes from the pain of infidelity, also comes unparalleled wisdom and emotional acuity within. What you have experienced is unique to only those who've been betrayed.

It's a fraternity no one wishes to be part of or think's they'll be part of. The results are wisdoms that many here have been filled with and can share with others. Sadly, it's so prevalent you will find in time, you'll be able to or required to share what you've learned. That's where we are in the year 2022.

With respect to forgiving. People sometime wrongly associate forgiving with reconciling. They are two different actions. One can forgive and decide to not reconcile. I fall into that category. I'm still friendly and have forgiven my former wayward fiancé but the root cause of her infidelity revealed family and relationship differences in her background I either overlooked or underestimated its potential impact. 

I found out we were cut from two completely different cloths, hence she was not a candidate for reconciling. In fact, being older and wiser now I can say she wouldn't be a candidate if I met her today and infidelity hadn't happened. Despite the devastation left behind, infidelity offers one the unique chance to repurpose, reset and reengineer one's life.

I understand where the devastation is also so great that one feels as if their soul is lost and self worth is at an all time low. It's like a Kuwait building being bombed and reduced to ashes. Where rubble and ash now sits, a new building can be built of world class stature and significance. This could be you should you DECIDE to do this.

First you clear the rubble and debris, including the bomb shells of which may include some combustible components (your wife). Then you ask for architects to help with the vision of your future (your therapy) so that you can understand geologically what type of structure you're capable of building. 

Then you find a team of building contractors to help build it (your family and friends). Once built, you find tenants (future significant other). If my attempt to use this analogy failed (Understandably ) the hopefully this straightforward approach can resonate with you.

*Edit:* *You can 100% recover from this whole and new if you give yourself permission to do so. Up to you. Your mind and how you are able to manage it will determine your fate. Best thing about it is you have 100% control over the decisions needed to get you there. It's worth it. It is 100% worth it.*


----------



## fido3039

BigDaddyNY said:


> Well it can certainly act as a harsh dose of reality. Even those closest to you are human and capable of doing despicable things you never thought they would do. You also have the benefit of hindsight. You can now identify red flags you missed previously and pick up on them quicker in the future.


Yeah, exactly my point. Whether with her or with somebody else, we basically come out stronger out of this horrible experience.


----------



## Decorum

fido3039 said:


> So I have read all the comments so far and as I expected, the consensus is to move on. I just feel so sorry for my kid, his family unit. I was hoping to AT LEAST get to an scenario that while having to put it under the lapse of time, perhaps it could have worked out.


Brother everyone is trying to talk you into moving on.

I think you should follow your gut here. You believe she has found herself again.

I think you should try again. She may in fact be a safer partner now then she was all those years, and safer than anyone else you might meet.

You have a lot to gain if it works out too.

Listen there is a difference between self-interest and selfishness.

There is nothing wrong with self interest. That is part of why we get into relationships.

You neglected your wife. I don't think most men understand how painful neglect is for a woman.

It's almost as painful as being cheated on. Almost.

You did everything right when you found out.

You maintained self-respect, and solid boundaries on how you will be treated.

Most men fail right there.

You've shown yourself to be a quality man, with high value, and I think her love and respect for you are real.

But you have to be there for her going forward. Talk to her, look her in the eyes, be intimate, and keep that connection.

She married you to be your partner. Not your housekerper, nanny, and occasional sex benefits person.

Tell her that you are going to own up to how you failed. That you have learned how truly painful it is for her to have felt neglected and like you didn't care.

If it doesn't work out at least you tried.

I think you are the real deal, and you will both cherish the relationship going forward.

Eventually you will have to stop putting her in a situation if having to be reminded of her failures too.

There is time still for talking, counseling, and therapy now though.

I really wish you both well.
Take care!


----------



## Decorum

Brother everyone is trying to talk you into moving on.

I think you should follow your gut here. You believe she has found herself again.

I think you should try again. She may in fact be a safer partner now then she was all those years, and safer than anyone else you might meet.

You have a lot to gain if it works out too.

Listen there is a difference between self-interest and selfishness. 

There is nothing wrong with self interest. That is part of why we get into relationships. 

You neglected your wife. I don't think most men understand how painful neglect is for a woman. 

It's almost as painful as being cheated on. Almost.

You did everything right when you found out.

You maintained self-respect, and solid boundaries on how you will be treated.

Most men fail right there.

You've shown yourself to be a quality man, with high value, and I think her love and respect for you are real.

But you have to be there for her going forward. Talk to her, look her in the eyes, be intimate, and keep that connection. 

She married you to be your partner. Not your housekerper, nanny, and occasional sex benefits person.

Tell her that you are going to own up to how you failed. That you have learned how truly painful it is for her to have felt neglected and like you didn't care.

If it doesn't work out at least you tried.

I think you are the real deal, and you will both cherish the relationship going forward. 

Eventually you will have to stop putting her in a situation if having to be reminded of her failures too.

There is time still for talking, counseling, and therapy now though.

I really wish you both well.
Take care!


----------



## GusPolinski

Has OM #5 shown up yet?

If not it won’t be long.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> I wish to believe this was due to some mental break down or something, but I just dont know it.


I wish I were 20 again and owned my own helicopter. What has what you wish to do with the nature of reality at all?


----------



## sideways

Decorum said:


> Brother everyone is trying to talk you into moving on.
> 
> I think you should follow your gut here. You believe she has found herself again.
> 
> I think you should try again. She may in fact be a safer partner now then she was all those years, and safer than anyone else you might meet.
> 
> You have a lot to gain if it works out too.
> 
> Listen there is a difference between self-interest and selfishness.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with self interest. That is part of why we get into relationships.
> 
> You neglected your wife. I don't think most men understand how painful neglect is for a woman.
> 
> It's almost as painful as being cheated on. Almost.
> 
> You did everything right when you found out.
> 
> You maintained self-respect, and solid boundaries on how you will be treated.
> 
> Most men fail right there.
> 
> You've shown yourself to be a quality man, with high value, and I think her love and respect for you are real.
> 
> But you have to be there for her going forward. Talk to her, look her in the eyes, be intimate, and keep that connection.
> 
> She married you to be your partner. Not your housekerper, nanny, and occasional sex benefits person.
> 
> Tell her that you are going to own up to how you failed. That you have learned how truly painful it is for her to have felt neglected and like you didn't care.
> 
> If it doesn't work out at least you tried.
> 
> I think you are the real deal, and you will both cherish the relationship going forward.
> 
> Eventually you will have to stop putting her in a situation if having to be reminded of her failures too.
> 
> There is time still for talking, counseling, and therapy now though.
> 
> I really wish you both well.
> Take care!


So he "neglected" his wife and in your mind it's somewhere in the vicinity of "cheating on your spouse"?? That this certainly justified her going and screwing not one, not two, not three but FOUR men in such a short time frame??

If she was "neglected" she could have done what grown ups do.....communicate with one another. Try to fix it and if that didn't work file for divorce and leave.


----------



## L4L

fido3039 said:


> So looking for some advice here. I know for sure the majority of advice will be to "move on", but please, before recommending so, consider the scenario, as this is what I am most confused about. I will try to keep it short.
> 
> 12 years together, 6 married, 5 year old son. So, a month ago I found out my wife cheated on me multiple times with different mens (4 in total). This will surely sound BIG, and it does, but I am going to give some perspective. After I found out, we separated, basically she moved out with our kid. The way I found out was that I checked her phone, and while I did find out that she did, I wasn't sure how many times and with how many mens. I went no contact with her immediately and only talk about the kid.
> 
> So over the last year or so, our relationship deterioted deeply, to the point that I neglected sex to her for the last 6 months or so, this was previous to the end of January. Upon not feeling very well with the situation and at the risk of loosing my family, I started to treat her better - meaning, I would go on date, have more sex, etc. She was accepting that and was feeling comfortable again with me. We had very good times over the next two months or so (until April). Anyway, I noticed a change in her behavior from last year, and it was that she kept using her phone more often, something that she had never done in our years together and this caught my attention. So this got me curious and one night in April I went to check it and found out. At the time I did not confronted her with all the details, I just asked her and she admitted and I asked her to move out and she did. The next day when she moved out, she told me that she wanted to speak with me about the situation and she came home and told me that she was sorry, crying, etc. but I told her we need to keep distance and she left again. She left a lot of her and the kid's clothing at home, mainly due to accommodation and I let her do it until she can find a place.
> 
> Now, over the next couples of weeks of April I kept communication only regarding the kid, she respected that. She never tried to reach me or anything, she respected my boundaries. She is staying at her mother's. Fast forward to April's last Friday, I offered her to keep the kid while she can find a place, so that he is not uncomfortable sleeping elsewhere. I even suggested her that I can keep him and that I will have no issues for her to pick him up whenever she please. This was early in the morning and I did not got a response from her until late evening, when she answered that if I agree, she can come home to discuss this. I told her no, that we should talk in another public place, but she insisted to come so that she can pick up some clothing for her and the kid. I had to agree.
> 
> She came home that day late evening, and we discussed the arrangement, meanwhile she started packing some of her clothes. She tried to somehow include the separation subject into the manner, etc but I kept holding her off, but i couldn't hold it anymore and had to ask her. I asked her why, why, why. I told her the nightmare I have been living in since I found out. We both crumbled, we cried together, etc. she told me she does not wants to leave, she was remorseful, that she wants the opportunity to show me how she has changed and will change, etc. but ultimately I helped her pack her clothing and she left. She texted me that she will wait for me no matter the time, etc.
> 
> I went back to No Contact, but after this day, she started to somehow be more inclined to talk to me. She respected my boundaries still, but was starting to kind of be more communicative and gentle, asking me on some days how I am doing, etc. Obviously, I always had flat out answers as "Fine, Ok, good". So in one of those days she messages me asking me how I am doing in general and how I am doing with her, etc. I couldn't help but told her that I haven't feel any worse in my life, etc. but that I know I will someday feel better. She then proceeded to tell me that she misses me, misses our family, that she loves me, bla bla bla. I told her to cut it off and ignored her, but she insisted. I told her that I wanted her to tell me those things she said in text to me face to face, and that to be prepared to have a clean, honest, and serious conversation with me regarding all that happened.
> 
> So we went ahead and got together in the next day or so and she expressed everything. I asked every detail of the encounters. From October last year until March this year, she had 4 affairs with different mens. The first man she had sex two times with him, the second man 3 times, the third man was a one night stand that she new at a bar and the last man she had sex two times. I asked every detail, etc. Of course, I have no specific way to corroborate this so I trust what she said, as I just let her throw it all out. These months were difficult months during our relationship, but I know nothing actually will justify her actions.
> 
> Now, for the last part, she has shown remorse and I asked her to come up with a plan on how we can fix all this mess, just to see what she would do or think about it. She told me she never had any intentions to leave me, and i know this, since I have always been the breadwinner and those mens knew she was married. She is deeply sorry about breaking the family and how this will affect our kid, but one thing she keeps reminding me is this: And that she wants to do it (get back), but it will not be because of the kid, but because of us, that while she understand his future is important, she will get back to me because of us. I have never had any doubt about her and I know for sure that regarding the timeline at least she is somehow telling the truth, as I did noticed a change in her behavior starting that specific time. She did not have any affair previously that I could tell or that she told me. But while I do want to keep my family, I am not sure I will be able to forget about that. All I worry about is my kid - we were always a happy family, and he misses that. We never had any arguments or anything. We just neglected our sex life for just too much of a time. She insist that she has changed and that she will change and that she will wait and accept that I wont be able to forgive her in a long time, but she wants the opportunity to show me. She has no issues with getting under any condition I may put as in open phone policy, etc. I truly believe her regarding this, because I know for sure that she never thought she was going to get caught, and now that she did, she knows how much she was putting at risks here. But I dont know if I will be ever to see her again like I used to see her. She has not yet come up with the idea of how we can clean this mess and I am waiting for her proposal, but in the meantime I was hoping to get some advice from here. Happy to answer any additional inquiries regarding information as I know I have left a lot out, so if you need some more clarity, let me know. Thanks!


I can relate to this, i went through something very similar. It is very easy for people to give you advice and tell you what to do as they are not emotionally involved and can think more logically and rationally. When you are in it, and kids are involved it is a very different story. I think it all comes down to trust and respect for the other person and whether you feel that is something you can get back. I tried for a year, mainly for the sake of the kids and hating the thought of the family unit breaking up. We did marriage counselling, the lot but unfortunately the longer i stayed the less respect i had for myself. I knew deep down i could not get passed it and i had lost trust and respect for him. In the end i went to counselling myself to give me the strength to leave. After my first counselling session i went home and ended my marriage and the family unit and continued my own counselling to process all the emotions. This helped immensely. I'm 4 years on now and i can now say it is the best thing i did for myself.
That is my story though and I'm not telling you what you should do as that's up to you. I would recommend counselling though whether it's marriage counselling or counselling for yourself. It will help you process everything that is going on and give you a space to talk. I wish you well x


----------



## Decorum

sideways said:


> So he "neglected" his wife and in your mind it's somewhere in the vicinity of "cheating on your spouse"?? That this certainly justified her going and screwing not one, not two, not three but FOUR men in such a short time frame??
> 
> If she was "neglected" she could have done what grown ups do.....communicate with one another. Try to fix it and if that didn't work file for divorce and leave.


As long as it wasn't 5, I put my food down at 5. Lol.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Decorum said:


> As long as it wasn't 5, I put my food down at 5. Lol.


With me, one is one too many. I have a no genital hard rule. If she touched his genitals of he hers She has already divorced. It might take me while to find out the facts, but genitals being stimulated is the day the divorce is finalized, the rest is bureaucratic detritus to dissolve the business registered with the state.

As a matter of fact I see it as worse than that, she's dead to me the moment genitals come into play.


----------



## truststone

fido3039 said:


> Yep, I have read his post, and actually got in contact with him regarding all this.


good for you sometimes it helps talking those who reconciled and now regret and those that didnt to giv yu insight into soe of the posities and negatives. its true every situation is different but the pain you feel is real to you and the confusion. And you matter !!! because you where cheated on in my opinion are the one having to deal with more things then the one who commited the act.. so its tough especially because your trying to navigate it on your own because you can trust you SO.. check this out as well My story begins 34 days ago (possible WW) his story


----------



## colingrant

Don't rule out being traumatized at this very moment. Trauma can and will cause indecision, hesitation, doubt and confusion. Decisions you make or ponder over now will be laughably ridiculous to you by Christmas 2022. Synapses and cognitive skills are working at a fraction of what's normal. 

In other words we with clearer minds see what you cannot hence, this is why many are so adamant with their recommendations. Unlike yourself, they have no such emotional or psychological impediments. In time, you too will operate without them, but right now they are barriers. 

It may take you a while to get there. Might be in a few days, weeks or months. In time, you will be ticked you even contemplated some things. The cost of the delay as your cloud starts to lift is many subject themselves to further indignities and humiliation, resulting in deeper and a more long lasting pain, which in turn leads to a longer and more rigorous recovery time. 

It's the post affair actions by the wayward that make the betrayed feel as if they were being made a fool of that does THE MOST SIGNIFICANT AND LONGLASTING damage from my experience in having been cheated on twice and reading hundreds of experiences.


----------



## fido3039

BigDaddyNY said:


> There is no easy answer. I'm among those that will be quick to say leave, but you have to do you. @UpsideDownWorld11 is absolutely right though. Fear of leaving will most certainly result in you getting walked all over. The main obstacle to overcome if you choose to try for reconciliation is coming to terms with the inability to forget. The infidelity in my past is infinitesimal compared to what you've experienced and had significant mitigating circumstances. Today I have zero trust issues thanks to her actions at the time and over the years, but I still can't ever forget, 35 years later.


It is impossible to forget. As you said, you just need to come to terms with it. Also, the actions of the other person will probably ease the way to it.


----------



## fido3039

BigDaddyNY said:


> Well it can certainly act as a harsh dose of reality. Even those closest to you are human and capable of doing despicable things you never thought they would do. You also have the benefit of hindsight. You can now identify red flags you missed previously and pick up on them quicker in the future.


Yes, the red flags, they are always present, we just choose to ignore them. I will obviously emerge as a better partner and overall person after this experience.


----------



## fido3039

colingrant said:


> I found out we were cut from two completely different cloths, hence she was not a candidate for reconciling. In fact, being older and wiser now I can say she wouldn't be a candidate if I met her today and infidelity hadn't happened. Despite the devastation left behind, infidelity offers one the unique chance to repurpose, reset and reengineer one's life.


You couldn't have summarize it in a better way than this. The more I think about it, I know deep down this is the whole truth (we are and will always be different cloths, no matter what). And if I had the chance to do it again, as you said, I wont probably do it.


----------



## fido3039

Decorum said:


> Brother everyone is trying to talk you into moving on.
> 
> I think you should follow your gut here. You believe she has found herself again.
> 
> I think you should try again. She may in fact be a safer partner now then she was all those years, and safer than anyone else you might meet.
> 
> You have a lot to gain if it works out too.
> 
> Listen there is a difference between self-interest and selfishness.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with self interest. That is part of why we get into relationships.
> 
> You neglected your wife. I don't think most men understand how painful neglect is for a woman.
> 
> It's almost as painful as being cheated on. Almost.
> 
> You did everything right when you found out.
> 
> You maintained self-respect, and solid boundaries on how you will be treated.
> 
> Most men fail right there.
> 
> You've shown yourself to be a quality man, with high value, and I think her love and respect for you are real.
> 
> But you have to be there for her going forward. Talk to her, look her in the eyes, be intimate, and keep that connection.
> 
> She married you to be your partner. Not your housekerper, nanny, and occasional sex benefits person.
> 
> Tell her that you are going to own up to how you failed. That you have learned how truly painful it is for her to have felt neglected and like you didn't care.
> 
> If it doesn't work out at least you tried.
> 
> I think you are the real deal, and you will both cherish the relationship going forward.
> 
> Eventually you will have to stop putting her in a situation if having to be reminded of her failures too.
> 
> There is time still for talking, counseling, and therapy now though.
> 
> I really wish you both well.
> Take care!


Thanks for the encouragement. We tend to believe that our situation is "different' and "unique" sometimes, but it is hard to accept that it is not. I know I did have my share on this, but as others have suggested, I would've hoped that she would have been mature enough to just (a) end it or (b) talk about it. Neither happened and she chose the worst path. She has never been a good decision maker and I keep wondering myself: do I deserve this ? is this the life I want to live going forward ? not to feel support ? not to feel I do have a partner where I can lean when I have issues ?

You see, the way I look at it is not just the infidelity part, it is the whole baggage that I have come to realize nowadays I have been carrying. Of course, I am just so afraid of my kid, his future. If for one thing I could know he would stay with me, trust me, the decision would've been way easier. But this will not happen, she did not agree to that and will not. 

I am not really looking forward to have anyone else in my life or anything like that for that matter, what I am really looking forward and eager to know is that someday, even remotely, I will be happy again - and that this happiness includes my kid's well being. He is first to me and will always be.


----------



## fido3039

sideways said:


> If she was "neglected" she could have done what grown ups do.....communicate with one another. Try to fix it and if that didn't work file for divorce and leave.


"Communication" .. something she never had


----------



## fido3039

L4L said:


> I can relate to this, i went through something very similar. It is very easy for people to give you advice and tell you what to do as they are not emotionally involved and can think more logically and rationally. When you are in it, and kids are involved it is a very different story. I think it all comes down to trust and respect for the other person and whether you feel that is something you can get back. I tried for a year, mainly for the sake of the kids and hating the thought of the family unit breaking up. We did marriage counselling, the lot but unfortunately the longer i stayed the less respect i had for myself. I knew deep down i could not get passed it and i had lost trust and respect for him. In the end i went to counselling myself to give me the strength to leave. After my first counselling session i went home and ended my marriage and the family unit and continued my own counselling to process all the emotions. This helped immensely. I'm 4 years on now and i can now say it is the best thing i did for myself.
> That is my story though and I'm not telling you what you should do as that's up to you. I would recommend counselling though whether it's marriage counselling or counselling for yourself. It will help you process everything that is going on and give you a space to talk. I wish you well x


Trust and respect, you are right. Obviously, being emotional takes you to a flip flop drama of a situation that for a moment makes you believe in one thing and in an instant makes you believe in another. I have let things to cool down a bit, and today I can say I feel much much better than when I posted initially. This tells me that I will be able to grasp everything and make the right decision.


----------



## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> With me, one is one too many. I have a no genital hard rule. If she touched his genitals of he hers She has already divorced. It might take me while to find out the facts, but genitals being stimulated is the day the divorce is finalized, the rest is bureaucratic detritus to dissolve the business registered with the state.
> 
> As a matter of fact I see it as worse than that, she's dead to me the moment genitals come into play.


It if was just the infidelity..


----------



## truststone

Decorum said:


> Brother everyone is trying to talk you into moving on.
> 
> I think you should follow your gut here. You believe she has found herself again.
> 
> I think you should try again. She may in fact be a safer partner now then she was all those years, and safer than anyone else you might meet.
> 
> You have a lot to gain if it works out too.
> 
> Listen there is a difference between self-interest and selfishness.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with self interest. That is part of why we get into relationships.
> 
> You neglected your wife. I don't think most men understand how painful neglect is for a woman.
> 
> It's almost as painful as being cheated on. Almost.
> 
> You did everything right when you found out.
> 
> You maintained self-respect, and solid boundaries on how you will be treated.
> 
> Most men fail right there.
> 
> You've shown yourself to be a quality man, with high value, and I think her love and respect for you are real.
> 
> But you have to be there for her going forward. Talk to her, look her in the eyes, be intimate, and keep that connection.
> 
> She married you to be your partner. Not your housekerper, nanny, and occasional sex benefits person.
> 
> Tell her that you are going to own up to how you failed. That you have learned how truly painful it is for her to have felt neglected and like you didn't care.
> 
> If it doesn't work out at least you tried.
> 
> I think you are the real deal, and you will both cherish the relationship going forward.
> 
> Eventually you will have to stop putting her in a situation if having to be reminded of her failures too.
> 
> There is time still for talking, counseling, and therapy now though.
> 
> I really wish you both well.
> Take care!


i have to disagree on a few things 
1) when somebody has been cheated on and especially when the trust has broken it never ever goes away you just get better at managing the pain. it is a life long battle and only takes an innocent thing to cause those emotions to re-appear
2) the fact that the SO has changed and is even remorseful doesnt change the internal turmoil he is going through
3) when you talk about being intimate do you realize how hard that is for a man to be really there present knowing someone esle has it devastes us beyond what any women can imagine, 
4) you talk and say "You neglected your wife. I don't think most men understand how painful neglect is for a woman." o It's almost as painful as being cheated on" Seriously do you even know what cheating does to a mans manhood , self woth , constant felling of being inadequate and feeling inferior, plus they have to deal with lost Trust which by itself is enough to crash any mans self worth ... 

AND by the way people cheat because they want to it has nothing to do with the other spouse . its about being self centered and selfish .. if soneone wants to cheat then they shouldnt be with anyone and when they cheat they use the excuse like you said to justify there actions which is just that an excuse smh

not sure what your trying to justify 

As for the one who has been cheated on they are entitled to take there time to heal-this was forced onto them the situation and if it means that they negelect there wife so be it , they didnt to this THE OP is trying his best he has to heal and work on himself- if you can love and value yourself anymore how can you be that way for someone esle espeically to the person who cause this ?? .. If the SO cheats well these are some of the things you may or maynot experience again with your SO.. it so insulting when these justifications occur as a result of their actions alone .. nobody ever causes anyone to cheat that has to be understand ...


----------



## fido3039

truststone said:


> good for you sometimes it helps talking those who reconciled and now regret and those that didnt to giv yu insight into soe of the posities and negatives. its true every situation is different but the pain you feel is real to you and the confusion. And you matter !!! because you where cheated on in my opinion are the one having to deal with more things then the one who commited the act.. so its tough especially because your trying to navigate it on your own because you can trust you SO.. check this out as well My story begins 34 days ago (possible WW) his story


Thanks, read the whole thing


----------



## fido3039

colingrant said:


> Don't rule out being traumatized at this very moment. Trauma can and will cause indecision, hesitation, doubt and confusion. Decisions you make or ponder over now will be laughably ridiculous to you by Christmas 2022. Synapses and cognitive skills are working at a fraction of what's normal.
> 
> In other words we with clearer minds see what you cannot hence, this is why many are so adamant with their recommendations. Unlike yourself, they have no such emotional or psychological impediments. In time, you too will operate without them, but right now they are barriers.
> 
> It may take you a while to get there. Might be in a few days, weeks or months. In time, you will be ticked you even contemplated some things. The cost of the delay as your cloud starts to lift is many subject themselves to further indignities and humiliation, resulting in deeper and a more long lasting pain, which in turn leads to a longer and more rigorous recovery time.
> 
> It's the post affair actions by the wayward that make the betrayed feel as if they were being made a fool of that does THE MOST SIGNIFICANT AND LONGLASTING damage from my experience in having been cheated on twice and reading hundreds of experiences.


Yeah, I know I am still traumatized by everything. I am letting things to cool off and looking at all my options.


----------



## GeraldEdmunds

BigDaddyNY said:


> She may have remorse for getting caught and losing what the marriage does for her, but ask her if she enjoyed the sex she had with those men. You know what the answer will be, she loved it. Probably had spectacular orgasms. Probably bad mouthed you to those men. Why do you want to reconcile with that?


Is it possible she had any awkward encounters where she didn’t orgasm? I’m curious because I know from my experience as a cheating husband sometimes the sex was actually kinda lame. In all honesty it never compared to the amazing sex I was having with my wife which is why I cheated so rarely. But sometimes I had an itch to get some fresh tail and lacked the discipline to restrain myself.


----------



## fido3039

GeraldEdmunds said:


> Is it possible she had any awkward encounters where she didn’t orgasm? I’m curious because I know from my experience as a cheating husband sometimes the sex was actually kinda lame. In all honesty it never compared to the amazing sex I was having with my wife which is why I cheated so rarely. But sometimes I had an itch to get some fresh tail and lacked the discipline to restrain myself.


Yeah, so this is always assumed. But I guess it has to do more with the fact for the person who cheated to make it feel it was worth it at least.


----------



## L4L

fido3039 said:


> Trust and respect, you are right. Obviously, being emotional takes you to a flip flop drama of a situation that for a moment makes you believe in one thing and in an instant makes you believe in another. I have let things to cool down a bit, and today I can say I feel much much better than when I posted initially. This tells me that I will be able to grasp everything and make the right decision.


I am glad you are feeling your mind is clearer. It can be a bit of a rollercoaster so if you find yourself up and down again this is normal. You just have to be you and take time for you. Look after yourself first.


----------



## truststone

if theres anyone who knows of someone going through infidelity check and share this with them an amazing story Found proof of affair


----------



## BigDaddyNY

GeraldEdmunds said:


> Is it possible she had any awkward encounters where she didn’t orgasm? I’m curious because I know from my experience as a cheating husband sometimes the sex was actually kinda lame. In all honesty it never compared to the amazing sex I was having with my wife which is why I cheated so rarely. But sometimes I had an itch to get some fresh tail and lacked the discipline to restrain myself.


It is possible, but if so, it didn't stop her from going back to the same guy a few times and trying again with the next one, 4 times!


----------



## L4L

fido3039 said:


> So looking for some advice here. I know for sure the majority of advice will be to "move on", but please, before recommending so, consider the scenario, as this is what I am most confused about. I will try to keep it short.
> 
> 12 years together, 6 married, 5 year old son. So, a month ago I found out my wife cheated on me multiple times with different mens (4 in total). This will surely sound BIG, and it does, but I am going to give some perspective. After I found out, we separated, basically she moved out with our kid. The way I found out was that I checked her phone, and while I did find out that she did, I wasn't sure how many times and with how many mens. I went no contact with her immediately and only talk about the kid.
> 
> So over the last year or so, our relationship deterioted deeply, to the point that I neglected sex to her for the last 6 months or so, this was previous to the end of January. Upon not feeling very well with the situation and at the risk of loosing my family, I started to treat her better - meaning, I would go on date, have more sex, etc. She was accepting that and was feeling comfortable again with me. We had very good times over the next two months or so (until April). Anyway, I noticed a change in her behavior from last year, and it was that she kept using her phone more often, something that she had never done in our years together and this caught my attention. So this got me curious and one night in April I went to check it and found out. At the time I did not confronted her with all the details, I just asked her and she admitted and I asked her to move out and she did. The next day when she moved out, she told me that she wanted to speak with me about the situation and she came home and told me that she was sorry, crying, etc. but I told her we need to keep distance and she left again. She left a lot of her and the kid's clothing at home, mainly due to accommodation and I let her do it until she can find a place.
> 
> Now, over the next couples of weeks of April I kept communication only regarding the kid, she respected that. She never tried to reach me or anything, she respected my boundaries. She is staying at her mother's. Fast forward to April's last Friday, I offered her to keep the kid while she can find a place, so that he is not uncomfortable sleeping elsewhere. I even suggested her that I can keep him and that I will have no issues for her to pick him up whenever she please. This was early in the morning and I did not got a response from her until late evening, when she answered that if I agree, she can come home to discuss this. I told her no, that we should talk in another public place, but she insisted to come so that she can pick up some clothing for her and the kid. I had to agree.
> 
> She came home that day late evening, and we discussed the arrangement, meanwhile she started packing some of her clothes. She tried to somehow include the separation subject into the manner, etc but I kept holding her off, but i couldn't hold it anymore and had to ask her. I asked her why, why, why. I told her the nightmare I have been living in since I found out. We both crumbled, we cried together, etc. she told me she does not wants to leave, she was remorseful, that she wants the opportunity to show me how she has changed and will change, etc. but ultimately I helped her pack her clothing and she left. She texted me that she will wait for me no matter the time, etc.
> 
> I went back to No Contact, but after this day, she started to somehow be more inclined to talk to me. She respected my boundaries still, but was starting to kind of be more communicative and gentle, asking me on some days how I am doing, etc. Obviously, I always had flat out answers as "Fine, Ok, good". So in one of those days she messages me asking me how I am doing in general and how I am doing with her, etc. I couldn't help but told her that I haven't feel any worse in my life, etc. but that I know I will someday feel better. She then proceeded to tell me that she misses me, misses our family, that she loves me, bla bla bla. I told her to cut it off and ignored her, but she insisted. I told her that I wanted her to tell me those things she said in text to me face to face, and that to be prepared to have a clean, honest, and serious conversation with me regarding all that happened.
> 
> So we went ahead and got together in the next day or so and she expressed everything. I asked every detail of the encounters. From October last year until March this year, she had 4 affairs with different mens. The first man she had sex two times with him, the second man 3 times, the third man was a one night stand that she new at a bar and the last man she had sex two times. I asked every detail, etc. Of course, I have no specific way to corroborate this so I trust what she said, as I just let her throw it all out. These months were difficult months during our relationship, but I know nothing actually will justify her actions.
> 
> Now, for the last part, she has shown remorse and I asked her to come up with a plan on how we can fix all this mess, just to see what she would do or think about it. She told me she never had any intentions to leave me, and i know this, since I have always been the breadwinner and those mens knew she was married. She is deeply sorry about breaking the family and how this will affect our kid, but one thing she keeps reminding me is this: And that she wants to do it (get back), but it will not be because of the kid, but because of us, that while she understand his future is important, she will get back to me because of us. I have never had any doubt about her and I know for sure that regarding the timeline at least she is somehow telling the truth, as I did noticed a change in her behavior starting that specific time. She did not have any affair previously that I could tell or that she told me. But while I do want to keep my family, I am not sure I will be able to forget about that. All I worry about is my kid - we were always a happy family, and he misses that. We never had any arguments or anything. We just neglected our sex life for just too much of a time. She insist that she has changed and that she will change and that she will wait and accept that I wont be able to forgive her in a long time, but she wants the opportunity to show me. She has no issues with getting under any condition I may put as in open phone policy, etc. I truly believe her regarding this, because I know for sure that she never thought she was going to get caught, and now that she did, she knows how much she was putting at risks here. But I dont know if I will be ever to see her again like I used to see her. She has not yet come up with the idea of how we can clean this mess and I am waiting for her proposal, but in the meantime I was hoping to get some advice from here. Happy to answer any additional inquiries regarding information as I know I have left a lot out, so if you need some more clarity, let me know. Thanks!


Firstly thank you for sharing. Secondly pay no attention to the responders who are shaming you, judging or telling you what to do.
This is a support forum and i think some people forget they are dealing with peoples lives.
It sounds like you've dealt with alot and I'm sure it all feels like a rollercoaster of emotions. My story is quite similar to urs with my husband having done the same and then having been caught, promised to change realising what a mess he had got himself in! There is a saying.. "you don't know what you have got until its gone".. but i think it's more.."you do know what you got but you never thought you'd get caught!" Ha.
For the sake of our 3 kids we went to marriage counselling and i tried for a year. It almost emotionally killed me as i was going against my own morals and values. I would have been 'that person' saying .."oh i'd leave, no turning back bla bla bla" but when you are in it and you have kids its a very different story! So anyway i tried for a year knowing I'd done everything i could to try and make it work...but it basically came down to.. Do i trust and respect this man anymore and will i ever look at him the same way. The answer was no. I wanted it to be yes but every fibre of my being was saying no and leave so i did. I'm 4 years on now and it was the best thing i did. The kids adapted and saw i was happier. 
I think time will help you decide as well as asking yourself the questions i asked myself. I'd recommend marriage counselling too. Your gut tells you plenty too but we choose to ignore what we aren't ready to accept. 
I wish you well and hope you find happiness whatever the outcome.


----------



## fido3039

L4L said:


> Firstly thank you for sharing. Secondly pay no attention to the responders who are shaming you, judging or telling you what to do.
> This is a support forum and i think some people forget they are dealing with peoples lives.
> It sounds like you've dealt with alot and I'm sure it all feels like a rollercoaster of emotions. My story is quite similar to urs with my husband having done the same and then having been caught, promised to change realising what a mess he had got himself in! There is a saying.. "you don't know what you have got until its gone".. but i think it's more.."you do know what you got but you never thought you'd get caught!" Ha.
> For the sake of our 3 kids we went to marriage counselling and i tried for a year. It almost emotionally killed me as i was going against my own morals and values. I would have been 'that person' saying .."oh i'd leave, no turning back bla bla bla" but when you are in it and you have kids its a very different story! So anyway i tried for a year knowing I'd done everything i could to try and make it work...but it basically came down to.. Do i trust and respect this man anymore and will i ever look at him the same way. The answer was no. I wanted it to be yes but every fibre of my being was saying no and leave so i did. I'm 4 years on now and it was the best thing i did. The kids adapted and saw i was happier.
> I think time will help you decide as well as asking yourself the questions i asked myself. I'd recommend marriage counselling too. Your gut tells you plenty too but we choose to ignore what we aren't ready to accept.
> I wish you well and hope you find happiness whatever the outcome.


Thank you! I really appreciate this. It is true, some people perhaps do not understand we are going through emotions and reading comments like the previous before yours, put us a step backward instead of forward, in regards to emotions. It is a mind blowing game we live every day. I really appreciate your input, and I am in a similar boat regarding morals and values.


----------



## L4L

fido3039 said:


> Thank you! I really appreciate this. It is true, some people perhaps do not understand we are going through emotions and reading comments like the previous before yours, put us a step backward instead of forward, in regards to emotions. It is a mind blowing game we live every day. I really appreciate your input, and I am in a similar boat regarding morals and values.


It's not an easy ride, i remember it well! Just keep doing what you feel is right in the moment because you are the only one living your life, no one else. There is no rush in making any decision either way and you will know yourself when you are ready to make that decision whatever it may be. Once i knew... and it took me a year.. that was it...like a lightbulb moment and everything within me came back into balance. Our body seems to tell us when we are not in allign with our beliefs and values.. it was certainly screaming at me for that year! Lol.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> Thank you! I really appreciate this. It is true, some people perhaps do not understand we are going through emotions and reading comments like the previous before yours, put us a step backward instead of forward, in regards to emotions. It is a mind blowing game we live every day. I really appreciate your input, and I am in a similar boat regarding morals and values.


The point is we have been through this, through being cheated on and betrayed. Some of us have made the mistakes you are talking about making, others have had the time to reflect upon how we would not have been able to face ourselves in the mirror had we acquiesced to our desire to rug sweep and just go on as-if it didn't happen or followed a path of "reconciliation".

Point is, we are now looking at this from 36,000ft with a clear view of everything and see that there is nothing special about your wife. She's a typical serial cheater and she's following the typical trajectory a cheater follows when they can no longer lie, deceive and betray.

We are harsh only in so much as a slap to the face for a person in hysterics is harsh. We don't want a life of pain for you. We want you to see the reality of what happened, the reality of what your wife has become and set your feet upon the right path to future happiness, not only for you but your prodigy. This path unfortunately is the toughest one to start and looks impossible when you're where you are now, but it is the path that will enable you to face your future as a man with your head held high and able to embrace true happiness again.

The only thing standing in the way of true future happiness is the thing your wife has become and the ties that still bind you to her. Once those ties are severed fully, you won't believe how bright the days will become.

I am speaking with the fortitude that comes only from hindsight, because I had to choose that tough road before.


----------



## L4L

Dictum Veritas said:


> The point is we have been through this, through being cheated on and betrayed. Some of us have made the mistakes you are talking about making, others have had the time to reflect upon how we would not have been able to face ourselves in the mirror had we acquiesced to our desire to rug sweep and just go on as-if it didn't happen or followed a path of "reconciliation".
> 
> Point is, we are now looking at this from 36,000ft with a clear view of everything and see that there is nothing special about your wife. She's a typical serial cheater and she's following the typical trajectory a cheater follows when they can no longer lie, deceive and betray.
> 
> We are harsh only in so much as a slap to the face for a person in hysterics is harsh. We don't want a life of pain for you. We want you to see the reality of what happened, the reality of what your wife has become and set your feet upon the right path to future happiness, not only for you but your prodigy. This path unfortunately is the toughest one to start and looks impossible when you're where you are now, but it is the path that will enable you to face your future as a man with your head held high and able to embrace true happiness again.
> 
> The only thing standing in the way of true future happiness is the thing your wife has become and the ties that still bind you to her. Once those ties are severed fully, you won't believe how bright the days will become.
> 
> I am speaking with the fortitude that comes only from hindsight, because I had to choose that tough road before.





Dictum Veritas said:


> The point is we have been through this, through being cheated on and betrayed. Some of us have made the mistakes you are talking about making, others have had the time to reflect upon how we would not have been able to face ourselves in the mirror had we acquiesced to our desire to rug sweep and just go on as-if it didn't happen or followed a path of "reconciliation".
> 
> Point is, we are now looking at this from 36,000ft with a clear view of everything and see that there is nothing special about your wife. She's a typical serial cheater and she's following the typical trajectory a cheater follows when they can no longer lie, deceive and betray.
> 
> We are harsh only in so much as a slap to the face for a person in hysterics is harsh. We don't want a life of pain for you. We want you to see the reality of what happened, the reality of what your wife has become and set your feet upon the right path to future happiness, not only for you but your prodigy. This path unfortunately is the toughest one to start and looks impossible when you're where you are now, but it is the path that will enable you to face your future as a man with your head held high and able to embrace true happiness again.
> 
> The only thing standing in the way of true future happiness is the thing your wife has become and the ties that still bind you to her. Once those ties are severed fully, you won't believe how bright the days will become.
> 
> I am speaking with the fortitude that comes only from hindsight, because I had to choose that tough road before.


I can relate to what you have just said there. No one wants to see other people suffering. I find however it difficult to read people being shamed or judged when they are already in so much pain. There is definitely a way to say something without making them feel worse than they already do. We aren't here to tell them what to do or get annoyed with them when they choose not to take our advice or guidance. I seem to see that alot and it's sad to see. If they take our advice, great!, if they don't we should respect that. Sometimes taking the more difficult path you learn the biggest lessons. I certainly did and i wouldn't take it back. Pain is sadly unavoidable regardless in these situations.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

L4L said:


> I can relate to what you have just said there. No one wants to see other people suffering. I find however it difficult to read people being shamed or judged when they are already in so much pain. There is definitely a way to say something without making them feel worse than they already do. We aren't here to tell them what to do or get annoyed with them when they choose not to take our advice or guidance. I seem to see that alot and it's sad to see. If they take our advice, great!, if they don't we should respect that. Sometimes taking the more difficult path you learn the biggest lessons. I certainly did and i wouldn't take it back. Pain is sadly unavoidable regardless in these situations.


When I was learning how to fly, I had two instructors. One was laid back and just talked you through everything, including just gently pointing out your mistakes. The other would slap you in the back of the head when you did something stupid.

Guess from which one I learned the most and never forgot the lessons! Yip the one who slapped the back of my head and once even clocked me with the parking chocks that time I really screwed up.

I guess I'm like that instructor because some things are important enough to take a slap for in order for the lesson to sink in.

I could have used some harsh talking to when I was going through the aftermath of my wife's adultery, maybe I wouldn't have wasted those years looking for the answers in the bottom of my whiskey glass had someone walked me harshly through reality and deprogrammed me from the Disney I thought I failed because I was programmed to think that that was reality.


----------



## L4L

Dictum Veritas said:


> When I was learning how to fly, I had two instructors. One was laid back and just talked you through everything, including just gently pointing out your mistakes. The other would slap you in the back of the head when you did something stupid.
> 
> Guess from which one I learned the most and never forgot the lessons! Yip the one who slapped the back of my head and once even clocked me with the parking chocks that time I really screwed up.
> 
> I guess I'm like that instructor because some things are important enough to take a slap for in order for the lesson to sink in.
> 
> I could have used some harsh talking to when I was going through the aftermath of my wife's adultery, maybe I wouldn't have wasted those years looking for the answers in the bottom of my whiskey glass had someone walked me harshly through reality and deprogrammed me from the Disney I thought I failed because I was programmed to think that that was reality.


I'm not quite sure the comparison of flying lessons and Infidelity go hand in hand lol...but i guess we all deal and heal differently. 🙃


----------



## Cynthia

Dictum Veritas said:


> When I was learning how to fly, I had two instructors. One was laid back and just talked you through everything, including just gently pointing out your mistakes. The other would slap you in the back of the head when you did something stupid.
> 
> Guess from which one I learned the most and never forgot the lessons! Yip the one who slapped the back of my head and once even clocked me with the parking chocks that time I really screwed up.
> 
> I guess I'm like that instructor because some things are important enough to take a slap for in order for the lesson to sink in.
> 
> I could have used some harsh talking to when I was going through the aftermath of my wife's adultery, maybe I wouldn't have wasted those years looking for the answers in the bottom of my whiskey glass had someone walked me harshly through reality and deprogrammed me from the Disney I thought I failed because I was programmed to think that that was reality.



So what you're saying is that the best lessons are learned through abuse. Verbal is pretty good, but physical abuse works best. I'll keep that in mind.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Cynthia said:


> So what you're saying is that the best lessons are learned through abuse. Verbal is pretty good, but physical abuse works best. I'll keep that in mind.


People are so delicate these days. Civilization is crumbling before our very eyes. I'm afraid it's time to toughen up. Nature is not domesticated and those so delicate will not fair well in the times that are upon us.


----------



## L4L

Dictum Veritas said:


> People are so delicate these days. Civilization is crumbling before our very eyes. I'm afraid it's time to toughen up. Nature is not domesticated and those so delicate will not fair well in the times that are upon us.





Dictum Veritas said:


> People are so delicate these days. Civilization is crumbling before our very eyes. I'm afraid it's time to toughen up. Nature is not domesticated and those so delicate will not fair well in the times that are upon us.


Masculinity at it's best 🤦‍♀️
The world needs more compassion and empathy, not merely just to toughen up. 
That's outdated terminology that belongs in the past.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

L4L said:


> Masculinity at it's best 🤦‍♀️
> The world needs more compassion and empathy, not merely just to toughen up.
> That's outdated terminology that belongs in the past.


You can be compassionate, empathetic, strong and resilient all at the same time. They all have their time and place.


----------



## L4L

BigDaddyNY said:


> You can be compassionate, empathetic, strong and resilient all at the same time. They all have their time and place.


Ofcourse i agree with that. Strength and resilience doesn't need to come from others shaming you though, it can come from the right kind of support, lessons learned and respect for yourself after tough times. When we are weak which we all have been we don't need harshness, we need kindness. Saying toughen up to someone in pain is like saying calm down to someone whos raging... neither has much benefit or effect.


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## Cynthia

BigDaddyNY said:


> You can be compassionate, empathetic, strong and resilient all at the same time. They all have their time and place.


Sometimes the truth hurts, but it doesn't have to be said in a harsh manner. I know that I am blunt and to the point, but my intention is never to hit someone with my words. As has been shown, through responses here, is that others purposefully make rude and harsh comments in order to get through to people in denial. Getting through denial, when in betrayal pain, is very difficult, but can be done by patient and kind help, when people are speaking the plain truth.

Many people, who could have been helped, have been run off from this place due to harsh words. Calling people pathetic, etc. is just plain rude and doesn't advance truth. It shuts people down.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

L4L said:


> Masculinity at it's best 🤦‍♀️
> The world needs more compassion and empathy, not merely just to toughen up.
> That's outdated terminology that belongs in the past.


Lady, I'm old fashioned because I'm old and the only way to become old in Africa is to be exactly as I am, I make no apologies for what has kept me alive in a place where most cannot attain old age.


----------



## loblawbobblog

Cynthia said:


> Sometimes the truth hurts, but it doesn't have to be said in a harsh manner. I know that I am blunt and to the point, but my intention is never to hit someone with my words. As has been shown, through responses here, is that others purposefully make rude and harsh comments in order to get through to people in denial. Getting through denial, when in betrayal pain, is very difficult, but can be done by patient and kind help, when people are speaking the plain truth.
> 
> Many people, who could have been helped, have been run off from this place due to harsh words. Calling people pathetic, etc. is just plain rude and doesn't advance truth. It shuts people down.


FWIW, I'm helped more by blunt and direct advice than by soft-pedalling. I need to hear the brutal truth.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Cynthia said:


> Sometimes the truth hurts, but it doesn't have to be said in a harsh manner. I know that I am blunt and to the point, but my intention is never to hit someone with my words. As has been shown, through responses here, is that others purposefully make rude and harsh comments in order to get through to people in denial. Getting through denial, when in betrayal pain, is very difficult, but can be done by patient and kind help, when people are speaking the plain truth.
> 
> Many people, who could have been helped, have been run off from this place due to harsh words. Calling people pathetic, etc. is just plain rude and doesn't advance truth. It shuts people down.


I can't argue with any of this. I wonder though, how many of those that appear to be run off by harsh words would still be gone even with a softer approach? I feel like many of those that leave aren't leaving because of the way the message was conveyed, but rather they are leaving because they didn't like the message.

@fido3039 wasn't run off by the harsh words, I think because he already had his head on fairly straight and already had a good idea where he needed to go with all this. Even so, his heart really wanted this to all go away and be "fixed" and I think he needed some of that hardened dose of reality.


----------



## L4L

BigDaddyNY said:


> I can't argue with any of this. I wonder though, how many of those that appear to be run off by harsh words would still be gone even with a softer approach? I feel like many of those that leave aren't leaving because of the way the message was conveyed, but rather they are leaving because they didn't like the message.
> 
> @fido3039 wasn't run off by the harsh words, I think because he already had his head on fairly straight and already had a good idea where he needed to go with all this. Even so, his heart really wanted this to all go away and be "fixed" and I think he needed some of that hardened dose of reality.


I suppose we are all unique and diverse and what works for some is crippling for others... it's finding out what works best for each individual. I just can't bring myself to be brutal outwardly because I'd feel terrible.


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## Dictum Veritas

L4L said:


> I suppose we are all unique and diverse and what works for some is crippling for others... it's finding out what works best for each individual. I just can't bring myself to be brutal outwardly because I'd feel terrible.


You have to remember that some of us here are military veterans as well. We tend to be direct and not very subtle, but our goals are still the same. To set up the sign posts the BS can follow or ignore. We cannot make their choices for them, but we can flash red lights at obviously wrong choices and greenlight what is obviously right. Whether our warnings are heeded, that's up to the BS and sometimes, we are forced to give up and walk away, but if that happens, it happens with a heavy heart.


----------



## L4L

Dictum Veritas said:


> You have to remember that some of us here are military veterans as well. We tend to be direct and not very subtle, but our goals are still the same. To set up the sign posts the BS can follow or ignore. We cannot make their choices for them, but we can flash red lights at obviously wrong choices and greenlight what is obviously right. Whether our warnings are heeded, that's up to the BS and sometimes, we are forced to give up and walk away, but if that happens, it happens with a heavy heart.


Yes, i see our intentions are the same with a different approach coming from different generations and different backgrounds. I've done 4 years in Counselling and Psychotherapy and it's a very different approach. We challenge ofcourse but not in the way I'm seeing on here 😱


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## Decorum

truststone said:


> i have to disagree on a few things
> 1) when somebody has been cheated on and especially when the trust has broken it never ever goes away you just get better at managing the pain. it is a life long battle and only takes an innocent thing to cause those emotions to re-appear
> 2) the fact that the SO has changed and is even remorseful doesnt change the internal turmoil he is going through
> 3) when you talk about being intimate do you realize how hard that is for a man to be really there present knowing someone esle has it devastes us beyond what any women can imagine,
> 4) you talk and say "You neglected your wife. I don't think most men understand how painful neglect is for a woman." o It's almost as painful as being cheated on" Seriously do you even know what cheating does to a mans manhood , self woth , constant felling of being inadequate and feeling inferior, plus they have to deal with lost Trust which by itself is enough to crash any mans self worth ...
> 
> AND by the way people cheat because they want to it has nothing to do with the other spouse . its about being self centered and selfish .. if soneone wants to cheat then they shouldnt be with anyone and when they cheat they use the excuse like you said to justify there actions which is just that an excuse smh
> 
> not sure what your trying to justify
> 
> As for the one who has been cheated on they are entitled to take there time to heal-this was forced onto them the situation and if it means that they negelect there wife so be it , they didnt to this THE OP is trying his best he has to heal and work on himself- if you can love and value yourself anymore how can you be that way for someone esle espeically to the person who cause this ?? .. If the SO cheats well these are some of the things you may or maynot experience again with your SO.. it so insulting when these justifications occur as a result of their actions alone .. nobody ever causes anyone to cheat that has to be understand ...


I appreciate your point of view and the tenor of your reply.

I actually find nothing in it to disagree with.

I wanted to give a perspective to the OP as if he were leaning toward reconciliation. As I mentioned to him in a private message to give him some "breathing room."

I can explain human behavior without condoning it. I can understand someone's motivation with out excusing it.

I have been around these boards long enough to understand how that would be received.

I could have included the obligatory "nothing, absolutely nothing excuses infidelity."
I fully concur with that.

If you are going to reconcile then you are going to be interested in why the wayward partner took the actions they did.

Obviously this will include a mix of weakness, lust, vulnerability, some variety of self-centeredness, and other character flaws.

It doesn't vary from a small common spectrum of issues very often to be honest.

This is an interesting situation because it wasn't a typical player targeting an ignored horny wife.

She was obviously (at least to me) trying to fill a hole she was spiraling down. Hence the multiple partners.

From a reconciliation standpoint she didn't seem to transfer her love and loyalty to some new "soul mate", she was craving love and attention. 

/insert obligatory "nothing excuses infidelity" here/

So she is a very flawed and needy human being.
If you are going to reconcile this is what you have to work with.

Personally from the bits of information we have I think she likely could never want to go there again, after seeing the consequences.

What OP has to face is if he wants to reconcile, (and I now believe he is less interested in that than I originally thought) is if he lost interest in her before why will he maintain interest in her should they choose to reconcile.

The shock of D-day can invoke strong feelings of possessiveness that will not maintain a relationship long term.

Anyway I don't see myself as havig blamed or excused anyone. I haven't put any time limits on his decisions.

I put my post out there to see where OP went with it. My intention remains to support whatever he chooses.

Even at the height of my posting on TAM I had no interest in all the internecine drama.

You seem like a reasonable person so I don't mind putting it out there.

Take care!


----------



## Taxman

Fido
I come at this from the perspective of having dealt with a number of divorces over my four decades in practice. I am an accountant in an adjuct practice to a Family Law firm. I am the guy who determines who owns what. Simply put. I have to get to know these people. I can tell you from experience that infidelity is more than difficult to overcome. People who get back into the relationship and accept what has occurred generally are shells of their former selves. Simply put. I have known a few that did work out, but they involved a significant period of separation, wherein one or both dated extensively. Not revenge affairs, Those generally do not work out well. My most successful reunion happened after two years of separation. She had an affair with her employer. Her BH, a good all around guy was my client. He blew her world up, and the separation occurred almost immediately. She was liviing in the marital home. He would dutifully give her half the mortgage, but he took an apartment and began living as a single man. After a reasonable length of time (his shrink recommended six months) he began to test the waters. His ex spent a lot of time trying to rehab her career. (An office affair does get on your record) She also was experiencing remorse, so she accepted that she had destroyed the marriage completely. He did not file divorce only legal separation. They eventually found their way back to one another. We executed a good number of post nuptial agreements. ( (I was on intimate terms with their finances) They have now been back together for about ten years.


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## 86857

The commentary on brutal advice or not is interesting. When it was my turn I found the brutal advice to be very effective because D-day tends puts the BS into a tail-spin and a state of disbelief, often not even wanting to see what is before their very eyes.
But the not-so-brutal advice helped enormously too.
It was good to have both  

@fido3039 When I was in your situation, what I found most valuable of all was my gut instinct. 
I didn't listen to it initially, but once I did things began to fall into place. 

Also try not to overthink the future, will I be happy, will I ever trust anyone, will my son be happy etc. 

As to whether you'll ever forget it. No, you won't. However, it's up to you to choose how you carry it. 
The way I see it is, that's a decision, and no, it's not denial either. 

Eckhart Tolle has a great little piece on YouTube, about 10 mins, 'How to deal with betrayal'. 
It sounds a bit crazy initially as if you have to forgive etc but if you listen through to the end it's very enlightening. 
At least it helped me at the time .


----------



## MattMatt

L4L said:


> Yes, i see our intentions are the same with a different approach coming from different generations and different backgrounds. I've done 4 years in Counselling and Psychotherapy and it's a very different approach. We challenge ofcourse but not in the way I'm seeing on here 😱


Yep. It's a different approach right enough. Having some counselling training myself (certainly not to your level) it's too easy to fall into the trap of trying to be "nice" to everyone involved. 

My wife now believes that counselling has become too woke and agenda driven to be of much benefit. She has an MA and a PhD in psychology and used to train social workers, but quit when she could see how things were developing.


----------



## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> I have nothing I can use to corroborate only her word.


Polygraph!


----------



## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> Don't get me wrong, she is an excellent and caring mother


An excellent and caring mother would not blow up her marriage by screwing strange men and possibly cause her children to grow up in a broken home.


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## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> I haven't ask, but I am pretty sure that she will accept anything I put as a condition right now. She recognized that she needs it sooner than later (therapy).


Simple!....divorce in your favor and you will try to reconcile and build a new relationship. You will see real quick if she is remorseful or not for her actions.


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## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> It is so hard for me to delete 12 years of marriage. I can feel so sorry about my kid. Really, I can't hold this anymore. I dont even know If i am gonna make it. Not seeing my son everyday is killing me.


She had no problem deleting her husband and marriage from her memory while screwing other guys.


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## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> This is something that I am sure will haunt her for life.


I seriously doubt that.


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## Divinely Favored

Tested_by_stress said:


> You would have to have absolutely zero self esteem or self worth to take someone Ike her back OP. 4 different guys ? There's a word for a woman like her. Rhymes with door.


Damned sure a door you should never enter again!


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## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> Im with her since her late teens, so previous to that I know nothing. She was sexually assalted as a teenager though, this was only revealed recently to me, when she confessed about the affairs.
> 
> EDIT


Or she threw that in to try to Garner sympathy for her.


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## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> Whether with her or somebody else, it will be the same thought no matter who I end up with.


That will fade with a faithful virtuous spouse. Wife and I were both cheated on prior. Few years and the suspicion passes. It does get better. You have to let future faithful partner know what happened and you will trigger for a time.


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## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> She is not that young, in her late 30. Also, none of the guys she met them through work, 2 of them were introduced to her by a co-worker, one of them ONS, and the last one was introduced to her by a sister.


So co-worker is complicit. Others should know she is hooking up co-workers with APs. I would confront co-worker. Also what kind of trash was wifey telling co-worker about you to get her to say...hey you should meet this guy I know!

I would have issue with sister also introducing her to other men. Have you informed her family of her activities and sister arranging a meeting with an AP. You need to blow it up.


----------



## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> Great points you made. Keep in mind that I did not find any other evidence on the phone regarding the other affairs, only the last one. And I confronted her only over that one. She was the one who told me about the other three, without me asking.
> 
> Her sister is connected to the affair I found, yes. BUT, I told her regarding how does she believes they (their family) would see me now and she told me that her sister and boyfriend where always against that and it was her decision, and not them.


Did you inform sister that wife screwed guy she introduced her to? You should so maybe she quits having her meet other guys.


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## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> No, like I said, her intentions were never to leave me, she told me this and I know it. I know this for two things: I made her tell me at least what some of the guys worked on etc, and they are sub par guys.
> 
> 
> Yes, in fact, it was a relative of him. They both (sister and boyfriend) were against it. Her mother doens't know the full details, only that "she cheated".


So sister and BF knew she was hooking up with his friend?

I would also tell MinL that sister had introduced the one AP and it was her BF friend.


----------



## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> Oh yeah, I get you. But right now, we are separated. We will talk face to face next week about the proposal she is going to make to me. And of course, one of the first thing that is non negotiable if we ever decide to try is to have access the the phone. This is so ridiculous to just ask that I dont know how I would feel about that.


Open comms, tracking, GNO are gone! Never again! I would say she needs to change jobs to get away from culpable co-worker. No contact with any friends that knew and did not blow it up. POLYGRAPH! So you see how far down this rabbit hole she went.


----------



## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> I dont really know and really dont care. I have already expressed I am not interested in any consequences for them.


Those "consequences" as you call them, also keep them busy trying to salvage their own **** instead of calling up Mrs. Easylay to go another round. It also lets them know you are not going to be a whiney ass pansy and there will be some repercussions if they come sniffing around again.


----------



## Openminded

L4L said:


> Yes, i see our intentions are the same with a different approach coming from different generations and different backgrounds. I've done 4 years in Counselling and Psychotherapy and it's a very different approach. We challenge ofcourse but not in the way I'm seeing on here 😱


People post based on their experiences and obviously those vary. If a post is questionable, better to report it and let the moderators decide if it crosses the line or not rather than calling out posters and creating a thread jack.


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## Imnobodynew

Wow, I don't know what religion you are from; but mine tells me to do onto others as you would have done onto yourself. Love your neighbor like yourself. The truth will set you free.
If my wife were physically cheating on me I would pray someone would let me know ASAP. Better from a BS so I can understand what's going on. It would be a slap in the face if they just said "I didn't want to disturb your family" This is not about revenge. It's about helping people in the same hurt you are in.

This is why they let people speak at the end of the criminal trials. To make people understand how much damage the criminal has caused.

Take it further. If my son was starting hard drugs, and his teacher knew and didn't intervene and let me know... cause it's his my son's business? That's some logic I don't understand.


----------



## Evinrude58

Divinely Favored said:


> She had no problem deleting her husband and marriage from her memory while screwing other guys.


Indeed. Her delete button is awesome. The delete force is strong in this one.


----------



## ElOtro

Decorum said:


> From a reconciliation standpoint she didn't seem to transfer her love and loyalty to some new "soul mate"


Can´t identify in her factual behaviour the substance of the love and loyalty she was ommiting to transfer.


----------



## truststone

L4L said:


> Firstly thank you for sharing. Secondly pay no attention to the responders who are shaming you, judging or telling you what to do.
> This is a support forum and i think some people forget they are dealing with peoples lives.
> It sounds like you've dealt with alot and I'm sure it all feels like a rollercoaster of emotions. My story is quite similar to urs with my husband having done the same and then having been caught, promised to change realising what a mess he had got himself in! There is a saying.. "you don't know what you have got until its gone".. but i think it's more.."you do know what you got but you never thought you'd get caught!" Ha.
> For the sake of our 3 kids we went to marriage counselling and i tried for a year. It almost emotionally killed me as i was going against my own morals and values. I would have been 'that person' saying .."oh i'd leave, no turning back bla bla bla" but when you are in it and you have kids its a very different story! So anyway i tried for a year knowing I'd done everything i could to try and make it work...but it basically came down to.. Do i trust and respect this man anymore and will i ever look at him the same way. The answer was no. I wanted it to be yes but every fibre of my being was saying no and leave so i did. I'm 4 years on now and it was the best thing i did. The kids adapted and saw i was happier.
> I think time will help you decide as well as asking yourself the questions i asked myself. I'd recommend marriage counselling too. Your gut tells you plenty too but we choose to ignore what we aren't ready to accept.
> I wish you well and hope you find happiness whatever the outcome.


excellent !! well put !! and im sorry you had to expeience that for yourself but thanks for sharing and helping OP out .. good stuff !!


----------



## truststone

Dictum Veritas said:


> The point is we have been through this, through being cheated on and betrayed. Some of us have made the mistakes you are talking about making, others have had the time to reflect upon how we would not have been able to face ourselves in the mirror had we acquiesced to our desire to rug sweep and just go on as-if it didn't happen or followed a path of "reconciliation".
> 
> Point is, we are now looking at this from 36,000ft with a clear view of everything and see that there is nothing special about your wife. She's a typical serial cheater and she's following the typical trajectory a cheater follows when they can no longer lie, deceive and betray.
> 
> We are harsh only in so much as a slap to the face for a person in hysterics is harsh. We don't want a life of pain for you. We want you to see the reality of what happened, the reality of what your wife has become and set your feet upon the right path to future happiness, not only for you but your prodigy. This path unfortunately is the toughest one to start and looks impossible when you're where you are now, but it is the path that will enable you to face your future as a man with your head held high and able to embrace true happiness again.
> 
> The only thing standing in the way of true future happiness is the thing your wife has become and the ties that still bind you to her. Once those ties are severed fully, you won't believe how bright the days will become.
> 
> I am speaking with the fortitude that comes only from hindsight, because I had to choose that tough road before.


thats exactly it and i assume alot of us are givig you advice because its hinsight for us !!! and most of it comes from what we wish would of happened to us before whatever decision we made which ufortunately seems to be " D " but recocilliation has to begin with you being honest about whether or not you can trust thats the hard question to come to terms with and like L4L said even when yo have decided it may still take time before you do what you need to .. so time is the only thing that is constant and i know it sounds like a cliche but its true we just dont want you making the mistakes we all made ..


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## truststone

Cynthia said:


> So what you're saying is that the best lessons are learned through abuse. Verbal is pretty good, but physical abuse works best. I'll keep that in mind.


thats not what he is saying he just pointing out that different people react to things differently and for him from his prior experiences he woud of loved someone to pull him asisde and be harsh rather than being delicate. so in his advice it comes from what he hoped he would of recieved but in no way is he suggesting what you are implying.. different people react to different things differently. but the undelining thing is all of us are tryig to help . and all of our personalities are different so our approaches well be to .. so lets not shame someone for their approach in giving advice especially if its coming from a good place which i believe it is. If you notice which a comment is to harsh and OP says it every single poster has responded by saying they didnt intend for him to take it that way , that includes me!! So lets respect each others methods but if we feel its not coming from the right place then ofcourse since OP is hurting we will shut them down but lets not do that to those whose intentions are pure !!!!!!!


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## truststone

L4L said:


> Ofcourse i agree with that. Strength and resilience doesn't need to come from others shaming you though, it can come from the right kind of support, lessons learned and respect for yourself after tough times. When we are weak which we all have been we don't need harshness, we need kindness. Saying toughen up to someone in pain is like saying calm down to someone whos raging... neither has much benefit or effect.


i see you point but sometimes for guys when they hear toughen it means something different 
1)sometimes its what they need to hear so they get on track focusing on themselves 
2) Sometimes it means its time to make the tough choice you know you want to but are afraid 
3) sometimes it stops us in our tracks and forces us to ask the real questions that we may be avoiding and we realize this is the time we know we have to be completely honest with ourselves

its not always taken as a shame thing to guys although i can see why some might think that !!


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## Decorum

fido3039 said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. We tend to believe that our situation is "different' and "unique" sometimes, but it is hard to accept that it is not. I know I did have my share on this, but as others have suggested, I would've hoped that she would have been mature enough to just (a) end it or (b) talk about it. Neither happened and she chose the worst path. She has never been a good decision maker and I keep wondering myself: do I deserve this ? is this the life I want to live going forward ? not to feel support ? not to feel I do have a partner where I can lean when I have issues ?
> 
> You see, the way I look at it is not just the infidelity part, it is the whole baggage that I have come to realize nowadays I have been carrying. Of course, I am just so afraid of my kid, his future. If for one thing I could know he would stay with me, trust me, the decision would've been way easier. But this will not happen, she did not agree to that and will not.
> 
> I am not really looking forward to have anyone else in my life or anything like that for that matter, what I am really looking forward and eager to know is that someday, even remotely, I will be happy again - and that this happiness includes my kid's well being. He is first to me and will always be.


As I mentioned earlier you have my support whatever you decide. From my perspective, you have to honestly evaluate the situation and take the most wholesome path. I really wish you well in that!


ElOtro said:


> Can´t identify in her factual behaviour the substance of the love and loyalty she was ommiting to transfer.


Comparatively she was trading sex for attention, validation, affection. She went through multiple partners. 

This was not a love affair, "true love". More like a middle school girl chasing boys.
Thats my take on it.


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## Casual Observer

fido3039 said:


> This is actually my thinking to be honest. Four freaking mens, I told her she does have mental issues and she agrees


So are you open to the idea she suffers from mental illness and that treatment could be successful? You're in a tough place because, for your kid's sake, you really have to hope your wife can get better. You want a stable life for your kid; you don't want to have to be concerned about your wife becoming becoming neglectful. But suppose therapy works and she recovers. Would you consider reconciling? I'm not promoting that idea. Just thinking that her behavior sounds like it goes beyond bad choices and could truly be an illness.


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## truststone

hey @fido3039 how are you doing ??


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## ABHale

L4L said:


> I'm not quite sure the comparison of flying lessons and Infidelity go hand in hand lol...but i guess we all deal and heal differently. 🙃


Some people require the harsh truth to see it. Cuddling is what got them in the position they are in. Momma’s not allowing their boys to grow up. Always fighting their battles for them instead of letting them get and give a bloody nose every now and then.


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## ElOtro

Decorum said:


> Comparatively she was trading sex for attention, validation, affection. She went through multiple partners.
> This was not a love affair, "true love". More like a middle school girl chasing boys.
> Thats my take on it.


You are right on one point. And I still don´t find it as relevant as you do.

She may (or not, a conjecture) love the other multiple ones.
What is clear to me is that, facts given, she certainly do not love her partner and have no loyalty for him, the one kind of loyalty that have source in being fiercely in love.
So true, perhaps there wasn´t any "transference" of love.
But as IMO the individual inner subjective can´t redefine the meaning of facts, that was cos there was nothing to "transfer".

You seem (may be I´m wrong) to think that there is some kind of scale in infidelity.
I don´t.
And (it also only seems) that you put the emotional factor over all other ones. Just as others do with sex.
In my take all "affairs" are sexual (even if there was no physical sex) and all "affairs" are emotional (as even lust is an emotion).

Her conjectural reasons (attention, validation, affection, the trade) should be IMO since it happened a valid concern for her as an individual.
But. (again IMO) as whatever the "magnitude" and "nature" of the infidelity it dennies the reasons for making it desirable to stay together (mutual loyalty and fierce love), a more detailed consideration of what each mind hold seems (to me) secondary and enough for almost nothing.

Moreover...
As (once more IMO) love involves some courage, IF she was near to love one of those men, she would probably left for him.
And this would be for me a somehow redeeming factor for the new relationship and an expression of respect for the man she dropped.

Instead, as what happened can´t (shouldn´t) coexist with an in love couple, she is in fact (and regardles what she think or feel) either:


Saying those men are, all or each one, as valuable for her than her partner ("love" or not).
Saying her partner is of same low value ("love" or not) as all or each one of those men.


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## fido3039

truststone said:


> hey @fido3039 how are you doing ??


Hi Guys, thanks for all the updates. Will try to update some new info later today.

All in all, I appreciate all the comments, but ultimately it is my decision on how I will take this.


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## ElOtro

fido3039 said:


> ...but ultimately it is my decision on how I will take this.


As is almost all we do, right or wrong.


----------



## fido3039

I wanted to answer to all the inquiries after my last post, but it is impossible. I will just post an update regarding my situation hoping to get some new insights (they are always good, no matter what, so keep them coming).

So, I have broken my NC a few times over the last few days with her. Mainly because I wanted to see what was on her mind. It is obvious I have not lost hope yet. So we sat a few days ago, when she came with some lab test I asked her to get (std, etc.) and also, with her proposal on how to get over the mess.

So in a nutshell, she came up with some type of detailed plan on how we can approach things, from her perspective. One of the most intrigue things she told me was the following: She is willing to sign up a contract with me (postnup), on which she will wave my child custody to me in full if she is ever found cheating again, no matter the type. I believe I mentioned once that I proposed her to take him under my wing after I found all this mess, only to be met with hostile arguments from her. I know our child is the most important thing to her (and for me as well), so while she was reading that to me she was crying. I asked her a lot of question, regarding how she believes I could gain trust in her again, that I will never be the same, etc. and she accepted that. She mentioned multiple times that she understand the sacrifice she has to go under, but that she "must" do it. It is like she feels entitled to a second chance, to somehow demonstrate me of her change. Everytime we get to talk about this stuff, I always end up angry, so I try to keep my temper, but I sometimes lost it. So I basically turn around things she says, calling her a liar, etc. Of course this is me trying to get my frustration off me to her, but I am not like that. So we ended the talk on that day there, mainly because I was exhausted from the gym and the kid was around, so she didn't want him to see us "talking/discussing" (it was only after I insisted that she began the talk, she didn't want to do it in front of the kid from the very beginning - but I was curious and I had her talk).

So next day I asked her to come over, so we can continue. She also said there was something important she wanted to tell me in person regarding the kid. She brought the kid, put it to bed ,and then we begin talking again. On this occasion, I told her a few things, so I dont know if I wrote this in previous comments, but the kid is going to another school now, and will have a not so good schedule. Since there will be no one homes when he comes back from the school, the decision was for me to hire a nanny, so he can stay at my place for some hours and then she will pick him up from my place (at around 7-8pm everyday) and get him to her place to sleep with her. This is during weekdays, weekends as usual he is going to be with me, agreed on that. She told me something about some complain regarding the kid at the school and I got angry. So I immediately told her that I dont see how this is going to work, taht the only way I see this working is for her to quit her job and dedicate to the kid, to which she agreed crying again (to be honest, I was actually surprised at this, I only told her this to see her reaction). I also told her that she should not expect me to meet her family in the near future, if ever. To be honest, i threw all this not because I was feeling it, but because I was angry and resentful and to see her reaction. We ended the talk with my asking (once again, pain shopping) about the details and why she did it, bla bla bla. I only did this just see if her history could've changed, but i didn't, I got the same response. Still, because of the way we talk and i somehow agreed, she had hope.

So yesterday I coulnd't drop off the kid because he was sleeping and I asked her to pick him up. So when they were leaving I entered a chat with her regarding, yet again, the same stuff. I know this is wrong but I am just filled with uncertainty. I kept telling her that she must be sure about what she wants. She told me that I keep filling her with uncertainty, because one day i seem to agree to something, but I flip it the other day and she is right. I am only doing this because I dont know what to do or what do I want. So, in a nutshell over this talk, we agreed to something preliminary (she was the one who proposed it): that I will take next month and probably july, to see what we are going to do (kid is due to school in august). That if I agree to give it shot, we will do it through end of the year. If by Next year there is no really any hope from my side, that we will call it quit and she will move out. But still, I am just filled with uncertainty regarding all this. Part of me wants to do it for the kid's sake (which I know it is wrong, and she does also - she always says that if we ever gonna try it, it should be for us), but the other part of me doesn't. I know I can't be resentful my whole life and I know that in time I will have to let go, for my own sanity, whether with her or not. I know it doesn't hurt like the first week. And i know that in order to do this I will definitively have to let go.

There is a bunch of details I have omitted in between, so feel free to ask. I am just a little bit overwhelmed now because of my job. Thanks for any comments.

EDIT: to include that the usual things she said and agree upon was the usual things as open phone policy (we never had one), go to church, no drinking and/or partying, etc..


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## ABHale

Why was the kid moved to a different school? She shouldn’t have been allowed to move him out of the school zone. Unless laws are different where you live.


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## Rob_1

All you are doing is barking like one of those dogs that bark but don't bite. No matter what kind of resentment you might have, the bottom line is that as previously noted by many here, you already made up your mind. You are staying in the marriage for good or bad, but you are staying (that was a given from the first post you made. So accept that and stop with the passive-aggressive punishing because that's all you have the balls to do. It is extremely counterproductive to continue your passive-aggressive behavior because that will lead to a worse home environment once you cool-off and bring her back (which obviously you will). Your kid needs a stable environment, and just because you don't have the arguments in front of him that doesn't mean that he will not be feeling the tension, disconnect, and the lack of love around him between his parents. So procced with the understanding that you forgave, but won't forget, and try to create a positive environment for your kid.


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## jsmart

Hopefully her willingness to meet all of your demands is a positive but it’s not unexpected. Right now she’s desperately trying to keep the family intact. Is it only because of the kid? Is it fear of being a single mom? Or is she really wanting you. I imagine that it’s a bit of all three . 

It is normal to be all over the place. You are torn between your heart and brain. You fear becoming a part time dad, the thought of some other guy being around your kid. Also, you’re not able to just turn off the love you have for her. Despite how badly she has betrayed you, you still love her. We get that.

Some will say you only love who you thought she was. The question is, was this the real her the whole time or did she just go off the deep end is now back? Is she back permanently or is this a short respite until she goes on another binge with a string of new or even the same guys. Now that she’s completely lost the natural fear of hooking up with a new man it can be very easy for her to betray you again. An out of control woman is like a busted lock. It takes very little to pick her lock and open her up.

Then there’s a part of you that is completely disgusted with how thoroughly she whor.. herself out. Can you get over it? Going to be honest, you will be recked by this for years . Doesn’t mean you won’t be able to R and have a normal marriage but it may take a while for you to be able to have sex without your mind thinking about her doing the same exact act with one of these 4 guys.

I recommend that she get “How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair “. You’re on TAM and are getting the help of the collective wisdom of those who have been through the adultery storm. Your wife does not have that . Some people are able to be proactive and get the help and guidance they need but many are just lost on how to help heal the damage they caused. So she may need some help in helping you. You do have to firmly let her know that this is a long process and that you need to be sure you’re not going to be betrayed again.

Also you need to be sure you have all the details. You don’t want to pursue R to then find out that there were more affairs. If you read @loblawbobblog , he thought he was recovering from only an exit affair but it turned out that during them going through counseling, she was going through a “string “ of ONS . That she didn’t put a number in the journal leads me believe it was at least a number similar to your wife’s. So you really want to know exactly what it is you’re forgiving. Don’t let fear of another shoes dropping from making sure you uncover it all. Learning 5 years down the road that there was another affair further back will bring all the pain back.


----------



## fido3039

ABHale said:


> Why was the kid moved to a different school? She shouldn’t have been allowed to move him out of the school zone. Unless laws are different where you live.


Oh, we are taking him to a private school next calendar year, not this year (hence I said august).


----------



## fido3039

Rob_1 said:


> All you are doing is barking like one of those dogs that bark but don't bite. No matter what kind of resentment you might have, the bottom line is that as previously noted by many here, you already made up your mind. You are staying in the marriage for good or bad, but you are staying (that was a given from the first post you made. So accept that and stop with the passive-aggressive punishing because that's all you have the balls to do. It is extremely counterproductive to continue your passive-aggressive behavior because that will lead to a worse home environment once you cool-off and bring her back (which obviously you will). Your kid needs a stable environment, and just because you don't have the arguments in front of him that doesn't mean that he will not be feeling the tension, disconnect, and the lack of love around him between his parents. So procced with the understanding that you forgave, but won't forget, and try to create a positive environment for your kid.


Thanks. To be honest, I guess the next couple of months and then the next 6 will probably determine the fate of this. I know I wont forget, nobody does. And like I said previously, we didn't ever had any arguments or whatsoever, I am not that type of person. Of course, as you said, this will probably bring some old memories, but I can't live like that, it is either do it or leave it, and if I decide to do it, then I must know deep well that I will have to take care of those feelings.


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> Hopefully her willingness to meet all of your demands is a positive but it’s not unexpected. Right now she’s desperately trying to keep the family intact. Is it only because of the kid? Is it fear of being a single mom? Or is she really wanting you. I imagine that it’s a bit of all three .
> 
> It is normal to be all over the place. You are torn between your heart and brain. You fear becoming a part time dad, the thought of some other guy being around your kid. Also, you’re not able to just turn off the love you have for her. Despite how badly she has betrayed you, you still love her. We get that.
> 
> Some will say you only love who you thought she was. The question is, was this the real her the whole time or did she just go off the deep end is now back? Is she back permanently or is this a short respite until she goes on another binge with a string of new or even the same guys. Now that she’s completely lost the natural fear of hooking up with a new man it can be very easy for her to betray you again. An out of control woman is like a busted lock. It takes very little to pick her lock and open her up.
> 
> Then there’s a part of you that is completely disgusted with how thoroughly she whor.. herself out. Can you get over it? Going to be honest, you will be recked by this for years . Doesn’t mean you won’t be able to R and have a normal marriage but it may take a while for you to be able to have sex without your mind thinking about her doing the same exact act with one of these 4 guys.
> 
> I recommend that she get “How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair “. You’re on TAM and are getting the help of the collective wisdom of those who have been through the adultery storm. Your wife does not have that . Some people are able to be proactive and get the help and guidance they need but many are just lost on how to help heal the damage they caused. So she may need some help in helping you. You do have to firmly let her know that this is a long process and that you need to be sure you’re not going to be betrayed again.
> 
> Also you need to be sure you have all the details. You don’t want to pursue R to then find out that there were more affairs. If you read @loblawbobblog , he thought he was recovering from only an exit affair but it turned out that during them going through counseling, she was going through a “string “ of ONS . That she didn’t put a number in the journal leads me believe it was at least a number similar to your wife’s. So you really want to know exactly what it is you’re forgiving. Don’t let fear of another shoes dropping from making sure you uncover it all. Learning 5 years down the road that there was another affair further back will bring all the pain back.


Thanks. Yeah, I do have those questions. I really really can't believe that was who she was, honestly. Also, one of the things I warned her about during those conversations was exactly that, that she could get away with the cheating because who I was, that didn't ever care, I wont be that anymore (or at least pretend not to be). But to be honest, I will not be able to live like that, it is either gamble or not. It is up to her. As long as I have that postnup signed and validated by my lawyer, I will be ok. She knows what is at stake now. Regarding intimacy, I really dont let that torment myself, I didn't knew her a virgin, so I know that eventually will just fade away, of course this will really depend on her, not me. I have corroborated the details by asking her multiple times the same things, and she is always clean with the same timeline and history. It is what it is, for now.


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## jsmart

Don’t under estimate the psychological damage that her affairs will have on you. The sex she had during her affairs are not like the sex she had before meeting you. She is now your wife and the mother of your child, she’s not supposed to have had sex with anyone. It is going to sneak up on you. Not to be vulgar but one minute you will be enjoying having sex , hearing her moan, seeing her in ecstasy, or giving you a BJ and then all of a sudden, boom, you’ll get an image of her moaning like that for one of these guys or of her giving one of them a BJ. This is not something you will be able to control and is very common to betrayed spouses. Even women suffer from it when they’re betrayed. Many guys have reported having to stop mid sex because of it.


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## fido3039

jsmart said:


> Don’t under estimate the psychological damage that her affairs will have on you. The sex she had during her affairs are not like the sex she had before meeting you. She is now your wife and the mother of your child, she’s not supposed to have had sex with anyone. It is going to sneak up on you. Not to be vulgar but one minute you will be enjoying having sex , hearing her moan, seeing her in ecstasy, or giving you a BJ and then all of a sudden, boom, you’ll get an image of her moaning like that for one of these guys or of her giving one of them a BJ. This is not something you will be able to control and is very common to betrayed spouses. Even women suffer from it when they’re betrayed. Many guys have reported having to stop mid sex because of it.


Thanks, understood. Yeah, I should not underestimate, I am just hopeful I will just get over it in time.


----------



## jsmart

Can I ask you how has she been with you. Does she appear to be really concerned about your feelings. Maybe it’s the way you write but by your description, I’m not sensing a lot of warmth coming from her. Is she pouring out her heart to you. Do her actions seem sincere or do you get a I need to get out of my mom’s house vibe? When she looks at you, are you seeing a woman that destroyed for what she’s done to her husband and father of her child? 

Many here will be against you pursuing R but you have to do what is best for you. I just advise that if you do give her a chance that you make sure you follow through on the prenup, open communications, and that you make absolutely sure you have all the facts. We have threads of betrayed that YEARS later find out there were another affair before the one they found or that the o e they knew about was much worse than they were led to believe. An affair that was supposed to have been a few months later is found out to have been years or the more common, the affair that supposedly only had a few regular sex hook ups ended up involving sex acts that the husband was denied for years. So you REALLY want to know what you’re forgiving.


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> Can I ask you how has she been with you. Does she appear to be really concerned about your feelings. Maybe it’s the way you write but by your description, I’m not sensing a lot of warmth coming from her. Is she pouring out her heart to you. Do her actions seem sincere or do you get a I need to get out of my mom’s house vibe? When she looks at you, are you seeing a woman that destroyed for what she’s done to her husband and father of her child?
> 
> Many here will be against you pursuing R but you have to do what is best for you. I just advise that if you do give her a chance that you make sure you follow through on the prenup, open communications, and that you make absolutely sure you have all the facts. We have threads of betrayed that YEARS later find out there were another affair before the one they found or that the o e they knew about was much worse than they were led to believe. An affair that was supposed to have been a few months later is found out to have been years or the more common, the affair that supposedly only had a few regular sex hook ups ended up involving sex acts that the husband was denied for years. So you REALLY want to know what you’re forgiving.


These are very good questions, so let me explain.

Remember I said I have implemented NC with her, so with that, on every little occasion since then when we had to talk to each other I have basically maintained defensive stand towards her, meaning I show no feelings or weakness. Only once during this whole time I have opened to her about my feelings (via text), so I guess that on her mind, I am doing OK. In fact, she almost got the impression that I was already dating by the way I am taking things (I am working out and got in shape again). So no, I can't say she is concerned at all about my feelings because I am not showing that to her. Her actions? There has been none, I told her that actions speak louder than words only to receive the usual "and how would you see if we are not together". Do I believe her words are sincere? I need to think so, but she has lied before. And while she might not be as comfortable as she was with me over her mom's, deep in her mind she kind of know it is temporary - she will either move to her own place or back with me, so she is not pushing it. And yes, I can say this: when I talk to her she looks very remorseful, but of course she is, she knows what she is loosing, she is not that stupid in that regard.


----------



## Rob_1

fido3039 said:


> . Do I believe her words are sincere? I need to think so,


No, you don't. Dude, please, think, analyze, comprehend what you are saying with that statement.

You're basically saying that it doesn't matter if she's for real or not, what it matters is that you want to believe it. That's pathetic, weak, in other words you're willing to put aside your pride, your self respect, your manhood in hold, just to see if you can go through it.

Dude, if you're going to try, it should be from a position where she's transparent and true to the situation going forward. Otherwise, just concede, because if you just want to believe, then you're starting with the foundations of a house built on quick sands. And you know what that'll get you.


----------



## fido3039

Rob_1 said:


> Dude, if you're going to try, it should be from a position where she's transparent and true to the situation going forward. Otherwise, just concede, because if you just want to believe, then you're starting with the foundations of a house built on quick sands. And you know what that'll get you


Thanks, I appreciate it. All I was saying is that by this instance where we are currently (we are separated), if I am leaning towards giving it a try, I must somehow start believing on what she is saying. It will not be healthy for me to get on that route thinking that everything she says it is a lie, I rather not do it. Her compromise should be for her to be transparent and true, and mine should be at least to start believing it is like so. How from this instance can I know if she is for real or not? There is no way for me to check that, or is it ?


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## Evinrude58

So basically no actions toward making things right with you, not begging you to let her come back, asking you how you see things in the future without you????????

you realize that being separated is almost 100% to continue trying out other guys, right?


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## Rob_1

fido3039 said:


> I must somehow start believing on what she is saying. I


It's not a matter of believing. It's a matter of knowing, being sure for a fact that what's she's saying/doing is for real.
When we said: I believe, that's a statement of faith, not one based in reality.
If the facts, actions, behavior, and your intuition/guts tell you that she's on the up and above, then you can go ahead.

If the above does not pass mustard with your intuition/guts. Then, it will behooves you to accept that you're just wasting your time.


----------



## Evinrude58

Rob_1 said:


> It's not a matter of believing. It's a matter of knowing, being sure for a fact that what's she's saying/doing is for real.
> When we said: I believe, that's a statement of faith, not one based in reality.
> If the facts, actions, behavior, and your intuition/guts tell you that she's on the up and above, then you can go ahead.
> 
> If the above does not pass mustard with your intuition/guts. Then, it will behooves you to accept that you're just wasting your time.


There is absolutely no logical reason in this case to start believing in what she says.

She was with 4 different men whom she had zero feelings for, while married. OP, surely you know what she’s doing now that she’s separated
she’s probably out with another man right now.
Fido,
Please don’t be naive about your wife. What she tells you and her actions are miles apart. She’s keeping you on the hook while she eats cake.


----------



## DudeInProgress

Rob_1 said:


> No, you don't. Dude, please, think, analyze, comprehend what you are saying with that statement.
> 
> You're basically saying that it doesn't matter if she's for real or not, what it matters is that you want to believe it. That's pathetic, weak, in other words you're willing to put aside your pride, your self respect, your manhood in hold, just to see if you can go through it.
> 
> Dude, if you're going to try, it should be from a position where she's transparent and true to the situation going forward. Otherwise, just concede, because if you just want to believe, then you're starting with the foundations of a house built on quick sands. And you know what that'll get you.


This is correct. Any attempt at reconciliation must be taken from a position of strength, where you are in control of your situation.

As far as trust goes, there is no trust, not any more, at least not for a while.
The point of attempting reconciliation is for her to prove that she is “All in“ with you and your marriage by doing the work to try to rebuild your trust over time. 
Maybe she’ll be willing/able to go above and beyond, over time, to prove herself to you and rebuild trust, and maybe she won’t.
Maybe you’ll be willing/able to accept her efforts/actions as enough to rebuild trust and move forward, and maybe you won’t.
If both of those are affirmative, maybe reconciliation has a chance. If either one is negative (or ambiguous), it’s done.


----------



## fido3039

Rob_1 said:


> being sure for a fact that what's she's saying/doing is for real.


So how would I go regarding this? Being separated I have no way to check anything. There is no doing right now.


----------



## fido3039

DudeInProgress said:


> The point of attempting reconciliation is for her to prove that she is “All in“ with you and your marriage by doing the work to try to rebuild your trust over time.


I agree. 


Evinrude58 said:


> So basically no actions toward making things right with you, not begging you to let her come back, asking you how you see things in the future without you????????
> 
> you realize that being separated is almost 100% to continue trying out other guys, right?


I believe I have said multiple times already that she wants another try, wants her family back, yada yada. I can call her right now and she will be sleeping here. It is not an option right now for her to be separated. I can't control her if she decides to "try other guys" as you said.


----------



## DudeInProgress

fido3039 said:


> I agree.
> 
> I believe I have said multiple times already that she wants another try, wants her family back, yada yada. I can call her right now and she will be sleeping here. It is not an option right now for her to be separated. I can't control her if she decides to "try other guys" as you said.


But if you do decide to attempt reconciliation, you can require full transparency and access to all her devices/comms. 
And if you find any indication that she did decide to “try other guys“ and then you trash the reconciliation and kick her to the curb permanently.


----------



## fido3039

DudeInProgress said:


> But if you do decide to attempt reconciliation, you can require full transparency and access to all her devices/comms.
> And if you find any indication that she did decide to “try other guys“ and then you trash the reconciliation and kick her to the curb permanently.


Yeah, if you read my latest update you will see I have already mentioned that (phone access, etc). I will only worry about that if we ever get together again, otherwise I should care less.


----------



## ABHale

fido3039 said:


> Thanks, understood. Yeah, I should not underestimate, I am just hopeful I will just get over it in time.


Damn

This says everything. Good luck with that.


----------



## Evinrude58

fido3039 said:


> I agree.
> 
> I believe I have said multiple times already that she wants another try, wants her family back, yada yada. I can call her right now and she will be sleeping here. It is not an option right now for her to be separated. I can't control her if she decides to "try other guys" as you said.


So what is she doing to earn that?
Does she call YOU and try to talk?
Does she go out of her way to see YOU?
What effort does she actually make that YOU would try to do, were you the one that f’d 4 different ladies?

it seems the only effort being made is on your part. What say you?


----------



## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> So what is she doing to earn that?
> Does she call YOU and try to talk?
> Does she go out of her way to see YOU?
> What effort does she actually make that YOU would try to do, were you the one that f’d 4 different ladies?
> 
> it seems the only effort being made is on your part. What say you?


She is in all ways respecting my NC. She even told me that sometimes she feels the need to talk to me about "us" but that she has stick to my boundaries of NC. I really want it to keep it this way until later on, as either way this will be for the better.

She has however, done everything I have asked for so far: lab test, proposal, NC, etc


----------



## Evinrude58

fido3039 said:


> She is in all ways respecting my NC. She even told me that sometimes she feels the need to talk to me about "us" but that she has stick to my boundaries of NC. I really want it to keep it this way until later on, as either way this will be for the better.
> 
> She has however, done everything I have asked for so far: lab test, proposal, NC, etc


You’re wanting to reconcile and she’s doing everything you ask. Not a lot more you can expect. You’re no contact….

I think she’s a lost cause. I’m not emotionally in this like you are. If you want to reconcile, I honestly think you’ve got to solve the problem of figuring out a logical reason that you should.
I can’t think of one to help you with. If you can’t, your mind is likely to be stuck working on this conundrum the rest of your life, keeping you from being truly happy.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Evinrude58 said:


> You’re wanting to reconcile and she’s doing everything you ask. Not a lot more you can expect. You’re no contact….
> 
> I think she’s a lost cause. I’m not emotionally in this like you are. If you want to reconcile, I honestly think you’ve got to solve the problem of figuring out a logical reason that you should.
> I can’t think of one to help you with. If you can’t, your mind is likely to be stuck working on this conundrum the rest of your life, keeping you from being truly happy.


I don't know how you could ever get past a multi-month multi-man hoing around spree.


----------



## Evinrude58

I think if I were OP I’d do a little checking up in her fri and Sat nights and see what/wh she’s really doing during the separation.

I can’t see a married woman who banged multiple guys, suddenly wising up and going straight


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Evinrude58 said:


> I think if I were OP I’d do a little checking up in her fri and Sat nights and see what/wh she’s really doing during the separation.
> 
> I can’t see a married woman who banged multiple guys, suddenly wising up and going straight


I definitely would be making some enquiries as to her activities during separation as well were I him. The wise thing to do now is to assume that every time she opens her mouth, she is lying and every assertion is false until proven otherwise. Acting opposite is nothing but naïve foolery.


----------



## Vaughan

Rob_1 said:


> you already made up your mind. You are staying in the marriage for good or bad, but you are staying (that was a given from the first post you made.


This, and really sad for those of us who know how this is likely going to end.
Sorry Fido, you have many wasted, painful years ahead. I wish I could rewind 20 years and slap myself silly, then Moved On. You know that is what you should do but fear is holding you back. Sorry.


----------



## 86857

fido3039 said:


> As long as I have that postnup signed and validated by my lawyer, I will be ok. She knows what is at stake now.


It's a tough decision for you but something unsettles me about that posnup. It's too much like a threat, i.e. having to do something under duress, 'You've gotta be faithful or else'. From her side, and she suggested it, it sounds as if she has to have such a threat hanging over her to make sure she'll 'behave'. 

You will never forget it, ever, no matter how hard you try and even if R goes well. Have a look at some R threads here. For many, the A happened years ago, even decades. It's pretty depressing stuff. I always feel very sad that they are having to live their lives with this particular monkey on their back, that is the monkey of betrayal. Life throws us enough curved balls as it is. 

You say you can't believe she did it. All that happened was that you got to know another side of her. Would you have married her if you knew she had a side like that? 

If people stay in a marriage for the sake of the children, from the many I've seen in real-life, all I can say is that it's a miserable space to be in. 

All I'm trying to say is, if you decide on R, go into it 'eyes wide open'. 
If you do R, don't spend years in it struggling away emotionally, cos many seem to that. If you find the going is still tough after a year, I'd leave. 
I'm someone who would never do R after an A. But if I did, I would give it a year, max. 
Life is too short.


----------



## truststone

can i make a suggestion since you want to reconcile which is your choice alone to make !! remember its about TRUST- first her constantly trying to prove to you u can trust her again secondly her being incredicble empathetic to anything that triggers your emotions and at no time having the audacity or attitude of like get over it already- its her job why because she broke the trust !! several times you have asked how do i know , people have given suggestions like paswwords, phone records bla blah blah which are important but i believe you should atleast do these sevreal things below t a bear minimum for your own self worth and confidence because you have choosen R
1) Surprise her one day and go for a polygragh - *after you have asked her a general question have you told me all the truth and is there anything esle i should know* - dont go into specific(thats crucial****) just leave it at that why - because you want to seee if she can be honest ( i use honest lightly) then say okay we are going for the polgraphy (shell probaby assume it has to do with you already know)

during the polygraph is where you get some questions answered like
a) how many affairs since you where married and since you dated have you had
b) timeline on all affairs -
c) does she believe one night stand or giving a guy a bj or kiss cheating 
- how many people has she done that with while you where together
d) has she seen anyone since seperated or been interested in anybody ( this icludes texting , looking at their social medias and given her number or taken someones)
2) if your still together 3yrs from now another poly and then at the 10yr mark (obviously you dont tell her this ) you just both go and get a poly done

if at any moment the results come back as a lie promise yourself *ONE thing* - *divorce paper served that day and NO Contact ever again !! *

If she refuses to go to poly when you ask or confesses to anything in the parking lot before the test *you leave !! NO matter what - that is a promise to yourself that you must follow*... that is why at the beginning i said ask the open ended question "have you told me all the truth and is there anything esle i should know" in a cheaters mind who has lied she will think your only asking about what you already know and so will easily answer yes. but if she is sincere about rebuilding trust she will tell you everything but i wouldnt hold my breath .And if you already have everything great !!

how can you possible move forward with R and heal if your heart and mind arent confident with the questions above which have'nt been answered to your satisfaction?? even if you dont beleieve in polygraphs its the best start and it will give your heart and mind some peiece knowing what you have choosen to forgiven and why you are R .. it has to start here otherwise you are just decieving yourself and havent you already had enough decpetion!!! Also why hasnt one been done??

*R is a new start with all facts on the table* and thats what you so dearly want otherwise your only working to reconcile with what you think you know due to what only you found out and that maynot even be the truth what a gamble and look where all bets have been placed on the cheater does that make sense ????


----------



## syhoybenden

Evinrude58 said:


> I think if I were OP I’d *do a little checking up on her Fri and Sat nights and see what/who she’s really doing during the separation.*
> 
> I can’t see a married woman who banged multiple guys, suddenly wising up and going straight


Get proactive!


----------



## jsmart

Evinrude58 said:


> I think if I were OP I’d do a little checking up in her fri and Sat nights and see what/wh she’s really doing during the separation.
> 
> I can’t see a married woman who banged multiple guys, suddenly wising up and going straight


Several pages back I asked him to verify if she’s stop all her cheating and he responded with we’re in no contact so he couldn’t find out, which to me is a very weak and passive answer and mindset. If he’s contemplating giving her a chance, he MUST know that she not only stopped F’ing these guys but is not even talking or texting them. 

I too am suspicious of whether she has completely stopped with the other men. She must have been getting a tremendous rush with each new guy. How does she just stop; especially when he’s not around to catch her. She has 3 guys that all she has to do is snap her fingers and they will be in her that night. Then you add that she had a ONS, which is another layer of crazy risky behavior for a married woman with a young child at home to engage in. I say all that to make a point that with this woman, you REALLY have verify that she’s stopped because like Ev said, it just doesn’t seem plausible that she just stopped cold turkey while being separated. I fear that she may have had additional hook ups during your separation.


----------



## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> She is willing to sign up a contract with me (postnup), on which she will wave my child custody to me in full if she is ever found cheating again, no matter the type. I believe I mentioned once that I proposed her to take him under my wing after I found all this mess, only to be met with hostile arguments from her.


So in March she was doing multiple guys multiple times without a care in the world. And now two months later she is willing to a sign contract to wave child custody that she was hostile to a few weeks ago. Didn't you say that before October she was "normal", no cheating? So in space of six months she has gone from settled mother/wife to wild and crazy now back to settled? And believe you said she would come back and sleep with you in a moment were you to give her the call. Since you aren't scratching her itch, don't you think someone is? She has at least four guys who have been in her that are surely after her 24/7.

Do you have any idea what has changed? When you talk with her, does she seem to be normal mentally? During separation, do you know where she is living? I know yu said her mother's house but do you know that for a fact? Something just seems really really "off". Hopefully for both of you the std tests came back negative.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Rus47 said:


> Hopefully for both of you the std tests came back negative.


They did come back negative... It this time... But I'd demand them be redone under my own supervision and not letting her out of my sight whilst waiting for the results before attempting the wild mambo again (if they are still negative) were I OP.

That's how much trust she deserves.


----------



## In Absentia

Just give it a go for 6 months for the sake of your child... if it doesn't work out, it doesn't. Seems to me it was just sex and she was not really emotionally involved with any of the men, not that it makes it any better. But maybe it's better than being in love with another man.


----------



## Rus47

In Absentia said:


> Just give it a go for 6 months for the sake of your child... if it doesn't work out, it doesn't. Seems to me it was just sex and she was not really emotionally involved with any of the men, not that it makes it any better. But maybe it's better than being in love with another man.


What is responsible for the drastic changes back and forth? Brain tumor? Psychosis?


----------



## In Absentia

Rus47 said:


> What is responsible for the drastic changes back and forth? Brain tumor? Psychosis?


He won't know until they live together again. It's a risk, but he has nothing to lose. He sets up the rules and what happens if the rules are not met or if he is not happy with it after all. Personally, I'm not sure if I could do it.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

In Absentia said:


> He won't know until they live together again. It's a risk, but he has nothing to lose. He sets up the rules and what happens if the rules are not met or if he is not happy with it after all. Personally, I'm not sure if I could do it.


Once she's back in the house it takes one false DV and an RO to get OP out of the house and out of contact with his children.

I'll take "History's worst ideas" for $ 1,000 there, Bob. Thank you.


----------



## ElOtro

In Absentia said:


> But maybe it's better than being in love with another man.


This is IMO totally wrong.


----------



## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> You’re wanting to reconcile and she’s doing everything you ask. Not a lot more you can expect. You’re no contact….
> 
> I think she’s a lost cause. I’m not emotionally in this like you are. If you want to reconcile, I honestly think you’ve got to solve the problem of figuring out a logical reason that you should.
> I can’t think of one to help you with. If you can’t, your mind is likely to be stuck working on this conundrum the rest of your life, keeping you from being truly happy.


Thanks. If you mean that I need to find a logical reason to try it, I might do it for the sake of us and our family, that's my only interest.


----------



## fido3039

BigDaddyNY said:


> I don't know how you could ever get past a multi-month multi-man hoing around spree.


Everytime I think about this I can honestly tell that I dont know what to think either. But I know this will be on me, and I will have to decide wether I will be able to let go or not.


----------



## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> I think if I were OP I’d do a little checking up in her fri and Sat nights and see what/wh she’s really doing during the separation.
> 
> I can’t see a married woman who banged multiple guys, suddenly wising up and going straight


This is good advice. At least I know what she was doing the last weekend, and I even asked her for her phone to check up on it and she gave it to me.


----------



## fido3039

********** said:


> It's a tough decision for you but something unsettles me about that posnup. It's too much like a threat, i.e. having to do something under duress, 'You've gotta be faithful or else'. From her side, and she suggested it, it sounds as if she has to have such a threat hanging over her to make sure she'll 'behave'.
> 
> You will never forget it, ever, no matter how hard you try and even if R goes well. Have a look at some R threads here. For many, the A happened years ago, even decades. It's pretty depressing stuff. I always feel very sad that they are having to live their lives with this particular monkey on their back, that is the monkey of betrayal. Life throws us enough curved balls as it is.
> 
> You say you can't believe she did it. All that happened was that you got to know another side of her. Would you have married her if you knew she had a side like that?
> 
> If people stay in a marriage for the sake of the children, from the many I've seen in real-life, all I can say is that it's a miserable space to be in.
> 
> All I'm trying to say is, if you decide on R, go into it 'eyes wide open'.
> If you do R, don't spend years in it struggling away emotionally, cos many seem to that. If you find the going is still tough after a year, I'd leave.
> I'm someone who would never do R after an A. But if I did, I would give it a year, max.
> Life is too short.


Regarding the postnup, I will use that in my favor. It is not like I should concentrate on it, but she has suggested it, so I will definitively do it should I decide to give it a try. If all else fails, at least I can get out of it with a bitter victory. Of course I wouldn't of married her if i knew. It is not that I will stay for the sake of the children, but having her as SAHM gives me peace of mind, but obviously there is some work to be done on us. It is like I told him, the man you knew before is not going to be the man that will enter this new relationship, it will be very wary of your whereabouts. So yeah, it is like the update says, if I decide to give it a go, by next year I should know whether it is the right decision or not. I wont stay longer.


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> Several pages back I asked him to verify if she’s stop all her cheating and he responded with we’re in no contact so he couldn’t find out, which to me is a very weak and passive answer and mindset. If he’s contemplating giving her a chance, he MUST know that she not only stopped F’ing these guys but is not even talking or texting them.
> 
> I too am suspicious of whether she has completely stopped with the other men. She must have been getting a tremendous rush with each new guy. How does she just stop; especially when he’s not around to catch her. She has 3 guys that all she has to do is snap her fingers and they will be in her that night. Then you add that she had a ONS, which is another layer of crazy risky behavior for a married woman with a young child at home to engage in. I say all that to make a point that with this woman, you REALLY have verify that she’s stopped because like Ev said, it just doesn’t seem plausible that she just stopped cold turkey while being separated. I fear that she may have had additional hook ups during your separation.


I believe i mentioned in my original history that she stopped contacting them and going out with them as far as March. The first two guys she cut contact with them by January. The last guy she had two encounters, one in January and the last on March. When I asked her about why, she said she just didn't want to continue and thats it. She never saw them as long term relationship (her words not mine). I will engage her regarding this. As soon as I found out, I never told her how I did it, so she still very suspicious about it. Also, I tend to believe that this fantasy was only carried out because she knew she was married, that perhaps it will not bring the same type of excitement to her now that she is alone/separated.


----------



## fido3039

Rus47 said:


> So in March she was doing multiple guys multiple times without a care in the world. And now two months later she is willing to a sign contract to wave child custody that she was hostile to a few weeks ago. Didn't you say that before October she was "normal", no cheating? So in space of six months she has gone from settled mother/wife to wild and crazy now back to settled? And believe you said she would come back and sleep with you in a moment were you to give her the call. Since you aren't scratching her itch, don't you think someone is? She has at least four guys who have been in her that are surely after her 24/7.
> 
> Do you have any idea what has changed? When you talk with her, does she seem to be normal mentally? During separation, do you know where she is living? I know yu said her mother's house but do you know that for a fact? Something just seems really really "off". Hopefully for both of you the std tests came back negative.


Let me fix this: On March, she had only 1 guy. Again, if she was really interested in any of those guys I guess she wouldn't come back begging to get back. The only thing I know has changed is that probably she is facing reality. She knows what she is loosing, the damage done to the kid, etc. That's the only thing I can think of. Normal mentally, this is a good question. I would have thought that someone normal mentally wouldn't of have done this. She said that she is remorseful and ashamed of everything, and that she has reflected on everything bla bla bla. I mentioned she is living at her mother's. Of course I know that for a fact, we dont live that far and it is where she and my kid are staying. Yes, the std came back negative.


----------



## fido3039

In Absentia said:


> Just give it a go for 6 months for the sake of your child... if it doesn't work out, it doesn't. Seems to me it was just sex and she was not really emotionally involved with any of the men, not that it makes it any better. But maybe it's better than being in love with another man.


It is my idea. At least if it doesn't work I can say I have given it a try - it was she who suggested it anyways, so it will not be on me. Also, I can perhaps get a win from it on the postnup. If she was in love with any of them, I wouldn't have been here asking.. meaning that perhaps she would have already moved on.


----------



## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> Once she's back in the house it takes one false DV and an RO to get OP out of the house and out of contact with his children.
> 
> I'll take "History's worst ideas" for $ 1,000 there, Bob. Thank you.


I have a prenup already in place. She has no marital assets. She will have to leave as soon as I call it.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> It is my idea. At least if it doesn't work I can say I have given it a try - it was she who suggested it anyways, so it will not be on me. Also, I can perhaps get a win from it on the postnup. If she was in love with any of them, I wouldn't have been here asking.. meaning that perhaps she would have already moved on.


In South-Africa, post-nups get thrown out so frequently that they are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can't see it being much different in the States.

There is a trend forming where seemingly iron-clad pre-nups are also being thrown out here. The rules are being changed and not in favor of the betrayed I'm sad to say.


----------



## fido3039

In Absentia said:


> He won't know until they live together again. It's a risk, but he has nothing to lose. He sets up the rules and what happens if the rules are not met or if he is not happy with it after all. Personally, I'm not sure if I could do it.


This might be my thinking, too. Like I said, having her as SAHM for my kid, brings some peace of mind to me. The fact that she is accepting this as well tells me something. Why would she agree to that if she was not interested in fixing it ? I mean, if she knows she will continue to do that why would he agree to it knowing what is at stake for her ? She wins nothing from this in the short term.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> I have a prenup already in place. She has no marital assets. She will have to leave as soon as I call it.


Better check that with the lawyers. What we think we have and what we are legally entitled to are sometimes worlds apart.


----------



## jsmart

One thing that disturbs me is that she’s not emotionally broken for what she’s done. He said it’s because he has been icy cold and not letting her know how broken up he has been. That’s the 2 edge sword of not being completely open. On one side his aloofness has caused her to be unsure of his love and faithfulness, which can be a form of dread he’s causing. Then on the other hand , if she saw how broken he was, she would realize just how much he loves her and trigger a desire to heal what she broke. 

I know many here always say don’t let her see you cry because women are repulsed by weakness but unless she sees the devastation she has wrought, how does she know he really cares. Remember, he spent months in a depressed state where he was very cold towards her. If she looks into his eyes and sees the hurt, she will know she was special to him all along. Right now she’s doubting if he cares or if he himself was out there with another woman. To have a real reconciliation, they need honesty and complete truth from both parties. If he shows his broken heart and she doesn’t respond in love, then he has to walk.


----------



## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> In South-Africa, post-nups get thrown out so frequently that they are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can't see it being much different in the States.
> 
> There is a trend forming where seemingly iron-clad pre-nups are also being thrown out here. The rules are being changed and not in favor of the betrayed I'm sad to say.


I have already contacted my lawyer yesterday regarding this and in my State, it is possible and doable he said.


----------



## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> Better check that with the lawyers. What we think we have and what we are legally entitled to are sometimes worlds apart.


Yes, I said I have already checked in with the lawyers. Remember I kicked her out already?


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> One thing that disturbs me is that she’s not emotionally broken for what she’s done. He said it’s because he has been icy cold and not letting her know how broken up he has been. That’s the 2 edge sword of not being completely open. On one side his aloofness has caused her to be unsure of his love and faithfulness, which can be a form of dread he’s causing. Then on the other hand , if she saw how broken he was, she would realize just how much he loves her and trigger a desire to heal what she broke.
> 
> I know many here always say don’t let her see you cry because women are repulsed by weakness but unless she sees the devastation she has wrought, how does she know he really cares. Remember, he spent months in a depressed state where he was very cold towards her. If she looks into his eyes and sees the hurt, she will know she was special to him all along. Right now she’s doubting if he cares or if he himself was out there with another woman. To have a real reconciliation, they need honesty and complete truth from both parties. If he shows his broken heart and she doesn’t respond in love, then he has to walk.


You are right on the spot on this! it is exactly how it is been. I have only opened to her ONCE during text on which she replied with tremendous empathy, BUT i have remained like that since then. So I dont know really what to do next, as you said, she might be even thinking that I am dating (she does for her actions - on sunday, she even asked me if she can ring my phone and show it to her - like to see if I have changed her name on my phone, as a way to hide if I was with somebody else, I was really surprised by this).


----------



## In Absentia

Dictum Veritas said:


> Once she's back in the house it takes one false DV and an RO to get OP out of the house and out of contact with his children.
> 
> I'll take "History's worst ideas" for $ 1,000 there, Bob. Thank you.


Can you translate this for me, please?


----------



## In Absentia

ElOtro said:


> This is IMO totally wrong.


Of course it's still wrong. Just a bit less wrong...


----------



## Evinrude58

In Absentia said:


> Can you translate this for me, please?


It only takes one false domestic violence charge and she’ll get a restraining order against him and get him kicked out of his own home. Definitely a possibility.


----------



## In Absentia

fido3039 said:


> This might be my thinking, too. Like I said, having her as SAHM for my kid, brings some peace of mind to me. The fact that she is accepting this as well tells me something. Why would she agree to that if she was not interested in fixing it ? I mean, if she knows she will continue to do that why would he agree to it knowing what is at stake for her ? She wins nothing from this in the short term.


Just a word of warning: everybody will be against trying again here, because most posters have been cheated on... it's understandable, but it can have a negative impact on your thinking.


----------



## In Absentia

Evinrude58 said:


> It only takes one false domestic violence charge and she’ll get a restraining order against him and get him kicked out of his own home. Definitely a possibility.


Why is it a possibility?


----------



## MattMatt

In Absentia said:


> Can you translate this for me, please?


He said letting her back might give her the opportunity to falsify Domestic Violence reports to obtain a bogus (but legally valid) Restraining Order which could get the OP (original poster) removed from his house and banned from meeting with/communicating with his children.

The reference to the I'll take history's worse ideas for $1,000 is a reference to a popular game show where people could choose questions from particular categories. I believe the show in question is Jeopardy.


----------



## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> This might be my thinking, too. Like I said, having her as SAHM for my kid, brings some peace of mind to me. The fact that she is accepting this as well tells me something. Why would she agree to that if she was not interested in fixing it ? I mean, if she knows she will continue to do that why would he agree to it knowing what is at stake for her ? She wins nothing from this in the short term.


Her being a SAHM is not really a guarantee that she not betray you. @loblawbobblog wife quit her job to be a SAHM after her affair but he recently found a diary where she wrote about a string of ONS she had while they were going to marriage counseling. She too had a young child at home but it didn’t stop her from whor… herself for months after getting busted. Doesn’t mean your wife will do the same but I just don’t want you to think having her at home will necessarily stop her from finding a man to have sex with.


----------



## In Absentia

MattMatt said:


> He said letting her back might give her the opportunity to falsify Domestic Violence reports to obtain a bogus (but legally valid) Restraining Order which could get the OP (original poster) removed from his house and banned from meeting with/communicating with his children.
> 
> The reference to the I'll take history's worse ideas for $1,000 is a reference to a popular game show where people could choose questions from particular categories. I believe the show in question is Jeopardy.


Thanks... as I said above, I'm not sure why she would do all that to get a restraining order?


----------



## fido3039

In Absentia said:


> Just a word of warning: everybody will be against trying again here, because most posters have been cheated on... it's understandable, but it can have a negative impact on your thinking.


It does, definitively. But it also gives me perspective. I know that ultimately it is my decision. Of course as you said, it seems that with some advice (spot on, definitively) I take two steps backwards.


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> Her being a SAHM is not really a guarantee that she not betray you. @loblawbobblog wife quit her job to be a SAHM after her affair but he recently found a diary where she wrote about a string of ONS she had while they were going to marriage counseling. She too had a young child at home but it didn’t stop her from whor… herself for months after getting busted. Doesn’t mean your wife will do the same but I just don’t want you to think having her at home will necessarily stop her from finding a man to have sex with.


No, I understand. If she wants to cheat she will cheat again, it doesnt matter. All I was mentioning is that having her a SAHM gives me peace of mind regarding my kid's sake.


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## fido3039

In Absentia said:


> Thanks... as I said above, I'm not sure why she would do all that to get a restraining order?


Yeah, like if I process a divorce she would get kicked out immediately, being on a fault state and with all the evidence.


----------



## MattMatt

In Absentia said:


> Thanks... as I said above, I'm not sure why she would do all that to get a restraining order?


Sadly that kind of evil stuff has happened to other people on TAM. 

There was even one woman who had three lovers and she got them all to beat the **** out of her husband and they threw him out of the house.


----------



## In Absentia

fido3039 said:


> Yeah, like if I process a divorce she would get kicked out immediately, being on a fault state and with all the evidence.


Do you think she would do that?


----------



## Evinrude58

fido3039 said:


> Yeah, like if I process a divorce she would get kicked out immediately, being on a fault state and with all the evidence.


I’m curious. I think the post nup if it’s really worth anything is a great idea. But I would be interested in knowing what evidence you have?
Also, I have legal doubts about you being able to file and kick her out, and get full custody, etc. I don’t think in my 49 years I’ve ever heard of such a judge enforcing such a contract. It’s every betrayed spouse’s wet dream to have such a piece of paper when attempting to reconcile. But honestly, it’s like a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow….. doesn’t really exist. Are you sure about this Fido?


----------



## fido3039

In Absentia said:


> Do you think she would do that?


Why would he suggest giving it a try for 6 months to see how would I feel if not otherwise to leave ? She is not that great of a thinker, I may say. Like I said, I have a prenup and to get her back I will do a postnup with a few more details.


----------



## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> I’m curious. I think the post nup if it’s really worth anything is a great idea. But I would be interested in knowing what evidence you have?
> Also, I have legal doubts about you being able to file and kick her out, and get full custody, etc. I don’t think in my 49 years I’ve ever heard of such a judge enforcing such a contract. It’s every betrayed spouse’s wet dream to have such a piece of paper when attempting to reconcile. But honestly, it’s like a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow….. doesn’t really exist. Are you sure about this Fido?


I have all the text evidence and voice messages. I have a consent recording of her with all the details. I consulted with the lawyers back then and they told me it was good enough evidence to request full custody. Now, with the postnup, they say that by she agreeing to it under bad behavior on top of that, it should be a win for us in that regard to request full custody. Obviously, we are expecting her not to fight it.


----------



## In Absentia

fido3039 said:


> Why would he suggest giving it a try for 6 months to see how would I feel if not otherwise to leave ? She is not that great of a thinker, I may say. Like I said, I have a prenup and to get her back I will do a postnup with a few more details.


But she's got your kid already. Am I right? If you decided it's not for you after all, things would go back to square one. Or she would try and punish you for that? It wouldn't happen with the proof you have... I think people are pushing the hypotheticals to a new level here...  But only you know her well.


----------



## fido3039

In Absentia said:


> But she's got your kid already. Am I right? If you decided it's not for you after all, things would go back to square one. Or she would try and punish you for that? It wouldn't happen with the proof you have... I think people are pushing the hypotheticals to a new level here...  But only you know her well.


Yeah. It is never her intention to take away from my kid, in fact, she is the one interested and pushing fully for me to be part of him. I have him on weekends because it was my decision, but she has no issues letting me take him to my place everyday.


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## Evinrude58

I know exactly how hard it is to leave someone you love, but after what she has done at least 4 times, know that you’ll never trust her again and even though you’ll hurt for a long time, you’d likely be better off putting her in your rear view. 
This kind of thing she pulled—— it’s never just a 4-off. The mindset and conscience to do this again is a known quantity in her.
If you were on the outside looking in, you’d see it from a totally different perspective.
It might actually benefit you to take her back and just see how you feel in 6 months. I suspect it will help you see more clearly


----------



## jsmart

Prenup / postnup are of questionable value for men. They can offer a psychological effect on the wayward spouse but there’s not a court in the west that will enforce a full custody against a WW that challenges it. She will have to be an abusive drug addict for the courts to side against the mother.

But if he’s thinking of R, then it has to be approached in a positive trust but verify attitude. It’s too early to trust but he has to start to let her in emotionally if they hope to move forward. Both R and D are scary. You can’t eliminate all the risk you can just reduce it.


----------



## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> It might actually benefit you to take her back and just see how you feel in 6 months. I suspect it will help you see more clearly


But then again, I think it might be a recipe for disaster if I just go into the "6 month trial" just to check "how will I feel". If i wont go into it putting at least an effort, then I dont think it might be even worth it. This is what I want to determine in the next month or so.


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> Prenup / postnup are of questionable value for men. They can offer a psychological effect on the wayward spouse but there’s not a court in the west that will enforce a full custody against a WW that challenges it. She will have to be an abusive drug addict for the courts to side against the mother.
> 
> But if he’s thinking of R, then it has to be approached in a positive trust but verify attitude. It’s too early to trust but he has to start to let her in emotionally if they hope to move forward. Both R and D are scary. You can’t eliminate all the risk you can just reduce it.


Yeah, I am only using those agreements/nup just to give it some weight on things. Obviously, I will never want to take her mother away from him, also, the postnup if not about her relinquish her custody over me, but more about him living with me and having her pick him up whenever she pleases without altering his routine. 

I agree about going into R with a positive mind set. I mean, I wont go into it for the next 6 months after june if I still dont have a plan or I am willing to put in the effort on my side.


----------



## jsmart

In the Karate Kid, Mr Miyagi said if you walk on the left side of street your safe, if you walk on the right side of street, your safe but if you walk in the middle of street you get squish like a grape. So in your case, you will have to decide to either be for reconciliation or for divorce and be all in. If you go half @ss middle of the road, your marriage will be squished.

Actually she already squished it but your hoping for it to be revived. That can only happen if you’re BOTH all in .


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> In the Karate Kid, Mr Miyagi said if you walk on the left side of street your safe, if you walk on the right side of street, your safe but if you walk in the middle of street you get squish like a grape. So in your case, you will have to decide to either be for reconciliation or for divorce and be all in. If you go half @ss middle of the road, your marriage will be squished.
> 
> Actually she already squished it but your hoping for it to be revived. That can only happen if you’re BOTH all in .


Yeah, I agree. But it should understandable for her that I may have struggles.


----------



## ElOtro

In Absentia said:


> Of course it's still wrong. Just a bit less wrong...


Again and with my full respect to your opinions, mine is the opposite one.
To love someone IMO necessarily entails the courage of a rebelion (which I may respect) instead of the small poor thing of a transgression (which I do not respect at all). 
Would made her take the risk of leaving her obviously unloved partner (making him a painful but needed favour and a touch of dignity) and leave with the loved one.
And even if in love converge multiple things, to proudly choose a one with no recreational time with and for others is in the core of it.
Once more and again, in my personal view, there is not a "moral" gradation on infidelity, so that may make a causal distinction between flirting and sexual / romantic events or between years and two minutes.
What it lacks is of love for their partners. The only kind of love that makes a relationship worthy, being in love and fiercely loyal because.
And if the wayward partner "feel love" for the betrayed one or would choose to stay "for the sake of...."? That may have a lot of merits, but as wings in cows mean a bit less than nothing.
So "Just a bit less wrong"? Not IMO.

Best best best wishes.


----------



## ElOtro

In Absentia said:


> Do you think she would do that?





Evinrude58 said:


> Definitely a possibility.


----------



## In Absentia

ElOtro said:


> Again and with my full respect to your opinions, mine is the opposite one.
> To love someone IMO necessarily entails the courage of a rebelion (which I may respect) instead of the small poor thing of a transgression (which I do not respect at all).
> Would made her take the risk of leaving her obviously unloved partner (making him a painful but needed favour and a touch of dignity) and leave with the loved one.
> And even if in love converge multiple things, to proudly choose a one with no recreational time with and for others is in the core of it.
> Once more and again, in my personal view, there is not a "moral" gradation on infidelity, so that may make a causal distinction between flirting and sexual / romantic events or between years and two minutes.
> What it lacks is of love for their partners. The only kind of love that makes a relationship worthy, being in love and fiercely loyal because.
> And if the wayward partner "feel love" for the betrayed one or would choose to stay "for the sake of...."? That may have a lot of merits, but as wings in cows mean a bit less than nothing.
> So "Just a bit less wrong"? Not IMO.
> 
> Best best best wishes.


Fair enough...


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> Yeah, like if I process a divorce she would get kicked out immediately, being on a fault state and with all the evidence.


Again, check with your lawyer. Sleeping with her again is seen as condonation under many at-fault legal systems and will make all of your evidence useless.


----------



## fido3039

Dictum Veritas said:


> Again, check with your lawyer. Sleeping with her again is seen as condonation under many at-fault legal systems and will make all of your evidence useless.


The postnup will definitively include a clause of this 6 months period, if ever.


----------



## jsmart

Until you 2 are living together and having face to face deep talks that will most likely be tearful, she will not know that you really love her. You have been putting on the tough, I don’t care act. She may be thinking that you haven’t changed from your earlier depression and that you’re only talking about R because of the kid. Which is probably true but just like she needs to prove through her words and actions that she wants you, you have to also show her too. 

With you being distant and cold for months before she even cheated and then this separation, it has been a while that you’ve had a deep heartfelt conversation. There’s no way you can convey deep feelings through text or even over the phone. You both have to see each other’s eyes and body language to know if she’s sincere. Seeing the person you love openly crying in front of you can have a powerful impact on both of you. 


You also need to show your emotions. She has endured a long period of coldness from you. You need to let her know that you too have a heart and that it’s broken. Let her know you’re sorry for treating her so cold for months but that you didn’t deserve what she did to you. It all has to come out in person with just the two of you. Leave the kid at your in-laws. Invite her home for the weekend, just the two of you. So there’s no interruptions. Be prepared to bare your soul. It has to be done if you want a loving reconciliation. If you only want to keep your wife locked up in the castle by making her be a SAHM, then you can end up with a lukewarm marriage like @loblawbobblog
Endured for over 10 years before his wife warmed up. I know you don’t want that. Like I said. You have to R or D. But whichever you choose, do it 100%.

Btw, I strongly advice that you read his thread. The more threads you read, the more you will see what works and what doesn’t.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> The postnup will definitively include a clause of this 6 months period, if ever.


Still doesn't change that you are about to negate the at-fault advantage. Divorce her and start from scratch if you want. That is the legally safest route you can follow. You can always marry her again with a prenup in place if you want to.

Seriously, if she wants you so badly she will fight for you to marry her again after a divorce that favors you and the courts can do nothing after the at-fault divorce has been granted.


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> Until you 2 are living together and having face to face deep talks that will most likely be tearful, she will not know that you really love her. You have been putting on the tough, I don’t care act. She may be thinking that you haven’t changed from your earlier depression and that you’re only talking about R because of the kid. Which is probably true but just like she needs to prove through her words and actions that she wants you, you have to also show her too.
> 
> With you being distant and cold for months before she even cheated and then this separation, it has been a while that you’ve had a deep heartfelt conversation. There’s no way you can convey deep feelings through text or even over the phone. You both have to see each other’s eyes and body language to know if she’s sincere. Seeing the person you love openly crying in front of you can have a powerful impact on both of you.
> 
> 
> You also need to show your emotions. She has endured a long period of coldness from you. You need to let her know that you too have a heart and that it’s broken. Let her know you’re sorry for treating her so cold for months but that you didn’t deserve what she did to you. It all has to come out in person with just the two of you. Leave the kid at your in-laws. Invite her home for the weekend, just the two of you. So there’s no interruptions. Be prepared to bare your soul. It has to be done if you want a loving reconciliation. If you only want to keep your wife locked up in the castle by making her be a SAHM, then you can end up with a lukewarm marriage like @loblawbobblog
> Endured for over 10 years before his wife warmed up. I know you don’t want that. Like I said. You have to R or D. But whichever you choose, do it 100%.
> 
> Btw, I strongly advice that you read his thread. The more threads you read, the more you will see what works and what doesn’t.


I really appreciate your input. If I do decide to give it a go, I will definitively try to do as you said, although being face to face every day will ultimately bring all of our emotions in the first few days.

Yes, I have read his thread and even asked for advice.


----------



## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> Yeah, if you read my latest update you will see I have already mentioned that (phone access, etc). I will only worry about that if we ever get together again, otherwise I should care less.


You can have her make out a time line for any indiscressions since you have been together. It must be complete and will be verified. It can be as detailed as you want down to times/ what they did, etc. You can possibly save all this for evidence if you divorce. If that is not taken into acct then keep it if she starts bad mouthing her. It is her own admission you can show others if she or family start talking ****.

Once she gives you that with threat of it being correct or else...then you take her to a polygraph with one of the questions being is the time line true and complete? Yes or No. Let you know if she is still lying to you and help you decide if you want to try to work it out.


----------



## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> I really appreciate your input. If I do decide to give it a go, I will definitively try to do as you said, although being face to face every day will ultimately bring all of our emotions in the first few days.
> 
> Yes, I have read his thread and even asked for advice.


You don’t have to go straight to living together. We’re coming up on a 3 day weekend. Spend this holiday weekend with her. You’ve been apart for a while already. If you’re going to give R a chance then start with your whole heart in it. If not, then pull the trigger on D and don’t look back. 

I’m glad that you’ve communicated with @loblawbobblog. It’s eerie how close his experience was to yours. While I think he knows that he made mistakes and CONTINUES to but he also has valuable advise to give because he’s walked in your exact shoes. While many of us have experience the pain of adultery our stories are all very different but his is almost a carbon copy of yours.


----------



## Evinrude58

fido3039 said:


> But then again, I think it might be a recipe for disaster if I just go into the "6 month trial" just to check "how will I feel". If i wont go into it putting at least an effort, then I dont think it might be even worth it. This is what I want to determine in the next month or so.


You shouldn’t be putting in so much effort. She should. If not, boot her. You should snyway


----------



## fido3039

Evinrude58 said:


> You shouldn’t be putting in so much effort. She should. If not, boot her. You should snyway


Yeah, but what I meant was that going into the 6 month trial with a mindset that it is not going to work will not be healthy for me.


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> You don’t have to go straight to living together. We’re coming up on a 3 day weekend. Spend this holiday weekend with her. You’ve been apart for a while already. If you’re going to give R a chance then start with your whole heart in it. If not, then pull the trigger on D and don’t look back.


It is too soon, I wont feel comfortable and the fact of being with her without my kid around for now feels weird.


----------



## colingrant

FIDO ......... Just a piece of information for you to chew on. Nearly 90% or more of what has been done, written, talked about and bantered will not matter. It's not a waste of time to discuss boundaries, consequences, etc. but the degree to which it matters you will eventually find is it doesn't in my opinion.

How do you expect to feel about the entire thing come May 2023, 2025, 2030 or longer depending on your decision. As an example, my fiancé would have done everything right, had I allowed her to prove herself. So, I used the perfect fiancé as a baseline. In other words, I thought long and hard about being with her in 3,5,10, 15 years etc. with her being completely remorseful and the perfect wife.

I STILL couldn't see myself being with her and being at peace with my decision. See, it wasn't about what she was doing or was or wasn't going to do. It was 100% contingent upon how I projected myself to feeling and being *knowing what I knew.* It wasn't even about whether she would stray or not. It was all about what was already done and I find that in a great majority of these situations, the same is experienced with other betrayed spouses, especially men.

Even those who reconcile, have a glass ceiling as to how great the marriage can be. I recognized this early even before I started visiting these infidelity sites. It's not about being unforgiveable. It's about it being unforgettable. I cannot forget the fact that my fiancé made the decision(s) to permit another man to enter her, while engaged to me. It went from her being mines to her just being. 

She went from special to being kind of. From the peak of the mountain to being near the top. Nothing she could do would place her above and beyond the rest and where no one stands besides her. She now stood alongside Jane, Jackie and Jill. See, that's not what I wanted for a wife. I'm not talking perfection. I'm talking specialness. It's gone.

Boundaries, devices, promises, all that is sidebar stuff to me. It still comes down to how do you FEEL in your gut about the one you're with. If it doesn't feel right now, it's highly likely it's not going to feel right later. We're all different though. But just wanted to present some thoughts that made the process simple for me.

*Note: Just to share my emotional and psychological makeup. I've always been in sales, marketing and business development. During my entire career not once have I excelled marketing, branding or selling something I didn't believe in 100%. I could never fake or manufacture a product or service just because they hired me. 

I wish I could but I cannot. Some of my peers are able to produce unbelievably results selling something that is no different than any other product on the market. Whereas, I can only sell what I believe is the or one of the best on the market. That's how I'm wired. I added this analogy to help you. 

It's possible you are one that can reconcile knowing what you know. It makes you no less of a man, person, significant other or husband. My message here is to be true to yourself. Know who you are and be true to it. Don't try to be it. Staying within this analogy, at some point I accepted who I was so I stopped working with companies that I couldn't believe in and sought companies I could, which in itself causes issues because sometimes I needed to be employed and here I go passing stuff up. ;-) *


----------



## Rus47

colingrant said:


> She now stood alongside Jane, Jackie and Jill. See, that's not what I wanted for a wife. I'm not talking perfection. I'm talking specialness. It's gone.


Cogent statement of the reality. The "special" someone became just another female like 3.5 billion on the planet. No reason to wife up with someone no different that any other female picked out of the crowd.

Good alternate perspective to the points raised in other posts.


----------



## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> It is too soon, I wont feel comfortable and the fact of being with her without my kid around for now feels weird.


You have a right to proceed in the direction and at the speed you are comfortable with.


----------



## fido3039

colingrant said:


> FIDO ......... Just a piece of information for you to chew on. Nearly 90% or more of what has been done, written, talked about and bantered will not matter. It's not a waste of time to discuss boundaries, consequences, etc. but the degree to which it matters you will eventually find is it doesn't in my opinion.
> 
> How do you expect to feel about the entire thing come May 2023, 2025, 2030 or longer depending on your decision. As an example, my fiancé would have done everything right, had I allowed her to prove herself. So, I used the perfect fiancé as a baseline. In other words, I thought long and hard about being with her in 3,5,10, 15 years etc. with her being completely remorseful and the perfect wife.
> 
> I STILL couldn't see myself being with her and being at peace with my decision. See, it wasn't about what she was doing or was or wasn't going to do. It was 100% contingent upon how I projected myself to feeling and being *knowing what I knew.* It wasn't even about whether she would stray or not. It was all about what was already done and I find that in a great majority of these situations, the same is experienced with other betrayed spouses, especially men.
> 
> Even those who reconcile, have a glass ceiling as to how great the marriage can be. I recognized this early even before I started visiting these infidelity sites. It's not about being unforgiveable. It's about it being unforgettable. I cannot forget the fact that my fiancé made the decision(s) to permit another man to enter her, while engaged to me. It went from her being mines to her just being.
> 
> She went from special to being kind of. From the peak of the mountain to being near the top. Nothing she could do would place her above and beyond the rest and where no one stands besides her. She now stood alongside Jane, Jackie and Jill. See, that's not what I wanted for a wife. I'm not talking perfection. I'm talking specialness. It's gone.
> 
> Boundaries, devices, promises, all that is sidebar stuff to me. It still comes down to how do you FEEL in your gut about the one you're with. If it doesn't feel right now, it's highly likely it's not going to feel right later. We're all different though. But just wanted to present some thoughts that made the process simple for me.


Thanks man, really appreciate the input. All I can tell is as of now, it is as you said, it doesn't feel better. I know that saying that i will initially be doing it for the kid is wrong, but I dont see any other way around as of today. But on the other hand, I need to perhaps see how will I feel if I give it a chance, perhaps it will remain the same ? perhaps I will feel worse ? perhaps I will feel better ? perhaps the fact of seeing my kid and us together could change a thing or two in me ?


----------



## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> I need to point out a few things you said: she has sex ONCE with a guy she met at a bar. The other 3 guys, two of them got introduced by her friend, and* one of them by one of their sister*.


Is it correct that your wife is living with her mother. And was it your wife's sister that procured one the the men for your wife? How well do you know your MIL? Is she perhaps tutoring your wife about getting back into your good graces by any means? Does MIL know her the sister's role in the situation?


----------



## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> It is too soon, I wont feel comfortable and the fact of being with her without my kid around for now feels weird.


How long have you been separated? The longer you stay apart, the less likely you are to want to get back together. Maybe you’re not the type to R and what @colingrant wrote in his excellent post about not being able to move forward with R applies to you. He’s right that no matter how remorseful she gets and how loving she can be, she will always be the one that crushed your heart in a very whor..ish way. The only thing that she brings is that she’s the only woman that enables you to have your intact family. Doesn’t mean you can’t co-parent and eventually have a new wife who can be a loving step mother but that can also be a roll of the dice. Every choice is wrought with positives and negatives.


----------



## fido3039

Rus47 said:


> Is it correct that your wife is living with her mother. And was it your wife's sister that procured one the the men for your wife? How well do you know your MIL? Is she perhaps tutoring your wife about getting back into your good graces by any means? Does MIL know her the sister's role in the situation?


Well, to be honest, I dont know the whole history. I know for sure the last one was a friend of one of her sisters. But who actually initiated the contact or whatever, I dont know. It might have been her all along. I know my MIL, and of course she has hopes that we get back together (I haven't spoke to any of them since then), but I know her well and she is suffering as well. MIL doesn't know her sister's role.


----------



## fido3039

jsmart said:


> How long have you been separated? *The longer you stay apart, the less likely you are to want to get back together*. Maybe you’re not the type to R and what @colingrant wrote in his excellent post about not being able to move forward with R applies to you. He’s right that no matter how remorseful she gets and how loving she can be, she will always be the one that crushed your heart in a very whor..ish way. The only thing that she brings is that she’s the only woman that enables you to have your intact family. Doesn’t mean you can’t co-parent and eventually have a new wife who can be a loving step mother but that can also be a roll of the dice. Every choice is wrought with positives and negatives.


We have been separated for 1.5 months. This is something I have been thinking about too. But hey, it is just a few weeks away, I will start a therapy this week so that might help as well to basically take the best decision or at least make the best of the decision I take. Waiting another month should not be that different I guess.


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## Dictum Veritas

fido3039 said:


> MIL doesn't know her sister's role.


Why not, why are you so passive? This wait and see attitude is not serving you. It's placing you on a road to ruin.

Case in point:
"Waiting another month should not be that different I guess."


----------



## colingrant

> I know that saying that i will initially be doing it for the kid is wrong


Wrong for who, you or everybody else? You have to make the decision on who YOU are. If you make the decision for the kids and have a "let's see" approach to your wife, weigh the cost/benefit just like she did with the affairs.

My thing is be real..... that's all I'm saying. I believe many who reconcile are being hopeful, but they're placing hope in the very person that destroyed it. That's not being real. That's akin to giving the keys of the car to a person who's had a few DUI's and killed a person while drunk driving and they haven't even gone through AA or suffered consequences for their actions

It's irresponsible to be hopeful with that person at this time. You don't want to be hopeful with your kid and family right now. If you wish to be separate for a while to see if and how she responds, I can somewhat understand that. But be careful with the hope because as they say, hope is not a plan. It's a dream.

With a child I can understand wanting to make the right decision. Some right decisions are to make none until you are crystal clear in your mind and and undeterred by emotions. Your kid needs you to make emotion-less decisions. You must be of a sound, grounded, no-nonsense state of mind. Once there, your decision will have nothing to do with pie in the sky b.s.

Clue: If you are "afraid" to lose her, you will be handicapped in your decision making. You must reach the point where you see success independently before you can make the best decision for you and your child. If you only see success with her, you're compromised.


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## fido3039

colingrant said:


> Wrong for who, you or everybody else? You have to make the decision on who YOU are. If you make the decision for the kids and have a "let's see" approach to your wife, weigh the cost/benefit just like she did with the affairs.
> 
> My thing is be real..... that's all I'm saying. I believe many who reconcile are being hopeful, but they're placing hope in the very person that destroyed it. That's not being real. That's akin to giving the keys of the car to a person who's had a few DUI's and killed a person while drunk driving and they haven't even gone through AA or suffered consequences for their actions
> 
> It's kind of reprehensible to be hopeful with that person at this time. You don't want to be hopeful with your kid and family right now. If you wish to be separate for a while to see if and how she responds, I can somewhat understand that. But be careful with the hope because as they say, hope is not a plan. It's a dream.
> 
> With a child I can understand wanting to make the right decision. Some right decisions are to make none until you are crystal clear in your mind and and undeterred by emotions. Your kid needs you to make emotion-less decisions. You must be of a sound, grounded, no-nonsense state of mind. Once there, your decision will have nothing to do with pie in the sky b.s.
> 
> Clue: If you are "afraid" to lose her, you will be handicapped in your decision making. You must reach the point where you see success independently before you can make the best decision for you and your child. If you only see success with her, you're compromised.


You are absolutely right. Let me make a post update.


----------



## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> I know my MIL, and of course she has hopes that we get back together (I haven't spoke to any of them since then), but I know her well and *she is suffering as wel*l. MIL doesn't know her sister's role.


That is what I was thinking. Your MIL has been "babysitting" her daughter and grandchild now for six weeks. Likely telling her daughter the whole time to fix the marriage, move back in with you so MIL can get her OWN house and life back. And if she has any inkling about what your wife was doing with other men, she has been reading her the riot act for the whole six weeks. It wouldn't be unusual for the SIL to have spilled the story to the MIL.

How many siblings in your wife's family? You don't mention FIL does that mean your MIL is divorced? Sometimes FOO issues can have a bigger impact that we can imagine.


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## ArthurGPym

fido3039 said:


> Thanks man, really appreciate the input. All I can tell is as of now, it is as you said, it doesn't feel better. I know that saying that i will initially be doing it for the kid is wrong, but I dont see any other way around as of today. But on the other hand, I need to perhaps see how will I feel if I give it a chance, perhaps it will remain the same ? perhaps I will feel worse ? perhaps I will feel better ? perhaps the fact of seeing my kid and us together could change a thing or two in me ?


You need to do what is right for you. If you use the kid as an excuse, and damn yourself to a miserable future, you don't think s/he will be able to pick up on that? What kind of damage will it do to your kid seeing dad cut in half by mom and wearing a bloody bandage around his midsection for the rest of his life just to keep the family intact? What lesson does that teach: that it is okay to allow someone you love to disrespect you and betray you and just go along with it and suffer? Would you want your child to do that if their future spouse cheats on them?


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## fido3039

Rus47 said:


> That is what I was thinking. Your MIL has been "babysitting" her daughter and grandchild now for six weeks. Likely telling her daughter the whole time to fix the marriage, move back in with you so MIL can get her OWN house and life back. And if she has any inkling about what your wife was doing with other men, she has been reading her the riot act for the whole six weeks. It wouldn't be unusual for the SIL to have spilled the story to the MIL.
> 
> How many siblings in your wife's family? You don't mention FIL does that mean your MIL is divorced? Sometimes FOO issues can have a bigger impact that we can imagine.


No, not really, she could care less if she stays there to live with them. She has her own business to take care of them both, they are on their own (or likely). She of course wants to see her daugther go back to her husband, since she knows the kind of man I am.

You see, the reason I have been playing nice this whole time is because I want that in the end, things to go peacefully. She has the right to demand alimony and child support once we divorce, but she has not mention any of it. In fact, I have not supported them in any way since they have been away, it has been all on her own, she has never asked. So I try to stray away from things that could probably turn things around - I get to see the kid whenever I want, he stays with me all weekends, etc. 

They are a big family, mostly females with two brothers. Yes, FIL is married with MIL, but I can't say it is a functional family, they are not.


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## SunCMars

You have to ask why she is willing to do the pre-nup and all the other conditions.

Dime to a dollar, she is doing it for her own security.
And, nothing more.

She is not doing it for your benefit.

You can find another, and better woman, and she knows it.

She experienced those other men, and she now knows that none of them are going to take better care of her, than you have.

She tried four different diks and found none of them outstanding enough to bail out of her marriage.

She did not think she would be caught.

She would still be cheating if you did not catch her.

Her wanderlust has been sated, maybe forever, maybe not.

I would think that she is less likely to cheat after this quick, round-robin style cheating.
And, now getting caught.

..........................................................................................................................

Or, down the road, she will get herself in a better financial situation, and bail on you in a few years, officially.


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## fido3039

ArthurGPym said:


> You need to do what is right for you. If you use the kid as an excuse, and damn yourself to a miserable future, you don't think s/he will be able to pick up on that? What kind of damage will it do to your kid seeing dad cut in half by mom and wearing a bloody bandage around his midsection for the rest of his life just to keep the family intact? What lesson does that teach: that it is okay to allow someone you love to disrespect you and betray you and just go along with it and suffer? Would you want your child to do that if their future spouse cheats on them?


It is funny, I asked her that: If this happened to our kid, what would be your advice to him ? she said: To leave, but only he knows his situation, so any decision he takes I will be on his back no matter what.


----------



## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> We have been separated for 1.5 months. This is something I have been thinking about too. But hey, it is just a few weeks away, I will start a therapy this week so that might help as well to basically take the best decision or at least make the best of the decision I take. Waiting another month should not be that different I guess.


That may be true for you but is it for your wife and kid? This limbo that you have them in is not a good state. Wandering in the desert for more than 40 days has not brought you any closer to a clear decision to what you want. 

I have to add that I agree with @Dictum Veritas that on quite a few important counts you are being very passive. I see many important details that you should know but haven’t tried to get. That’s what this separation has prevented you from doing. Communicating only through text has prevented you from conveying the hurt you feel and for her to let you know how she feels.


Spending a night or better yet the weekend, can help you decide what you want. Like @colingrant said, choose the path that works best for you but be committed. Not until you spend some time with her will you know what you really want. or maybe you already know you don’t want her anymore and are just not accepting it because friends or family are pressuring you to try.


----------



## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> You see, the reason* I have been playing nice this whole time is because I want that in the end, things to go peacefully. *She has the right to demand alimony and child support once we divorce, but she has not mention any of it. In fact, I have not supported them in any way since they have been away, it has been all on her own, she has never asked. So I try to stray away from things that could probably turn things around - I get to see the kid whenever I want, he stays with me all weekends, etc.


You are acting in your own self interest which is good.


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## fido3039

SunCMars said:


> Or, down the road, she will get herself in a better financial situation, and bail on you in a few years, officially.


To be honest, I really find this hard to believe. Also, I wont say I am wealthy, but I am in a good position, so it is highly unlikely she can do any better. Also, lets think about this: just take a look at the facts on how she went to do those things.. it just tells you something about her intelligence.


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## fido3039

jsmart said:


> That may be true for you but is it for your wife and kid? This limbo that you have them in is not a good state. Wandering in the desert for more than 40 days has not brought you any closer to a clear decision to what you want.
> 
> I have to add that I agree with @Dictum Veritas that on quite a few important counts you are being very passive. I see many important details that you should know but haven’t tried to get. That’s what this separation has prevented you from doing. Communicating only through text has prevented you from conveying the hurt you feel and for her to let you know how she feels.
> 
> 
> Spending a night or better yet the weekend, can help you decide what you want. Like @colingrant said, choose the path that works best for you but be committed. Not until you spend some time with her will you know what you really want. or maybe you already know you don’t want her anymore and are just not accepting it because friends or family are pressuring you to try.


I have tried as I said before. It is the pain shopping that I dont want to get over again. It is not healthy, everytime I try to do this I always take two steps back. I promised to myself I dont want to do that again, if possible. Yes, I am passive, but i have explained why in some other post. So you think two or three weeks more will make any difference for the kid and her ? I do have an excuse, and that I am concentrating on hiring the school for him.


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## Sfort

fido3039 said:


> You see, the reason I have been playing nice this whole time is because I want that in the end, things to go peacefully. She has the right to demand alimony and child support once we divorce, but she has not mention any of it.


Don't get used to it. When things get bad, she will go for your throat. At least most divorcing spouses do. In any case, I'm glad she's able to work you into her busy schedule.


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## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> I have tried as I said before. It is the pain shopping that I dont want to get over again. It is not healthy, everytime I try to do this I always take two steps back. I promised to myself I dont want to do that again, if possible. Yes, I am passive, but i have explained why in some other post. So you think two or three weeks more will make any difference for the kid and her ? I do have an excuse, and that I am concentrating on hiring the school for him.


I’m confused. Are you saying talking to her about what took place and getting the details of what you’re thinking of forgiving is pain shopping? Or is just being around her causing you pain? 

The longer a separation the less likely a reconciliation is to happen. That’s a fact but I don’t think 2 or 3 more weeks will make that much of a difference. My concern is that it doesn’t seem like you’re doing anything but waiting for some feeling or to see a sign from above to come to you to make the move. The problem with that is that the longer you wait, the less that feeling or sign will come to not only you but your wife too.

I’m sure you’ve heard of the expression absence make the heart grow fonder. There’s another side to that coin. Out of sight, out of mind. That’s the 2 edge sword that separation can be.


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## fido3039

jsmart said:


> I’m confused. Are you saying talking to her about what took place and getting the details of what you’re thinking of forgiving is pain shopping? Or is just being around her causing you pain?
> 
> The longer a separation the less likely a reconciliation is to happen. That’s a fact but I don’t think 2 or 3 more weeks will make that much of a difference. My concern is that it doesn’t seem like you’re doing anything but waiting for some feeling or to see a sign from above to come to you to make the move. The problem with that is that the longer you wait, the less that feeling or sign will come to not only you but your wife too.
> 
> I’m sure you’ve heard of the expression absence make the heart grow fonder. There’s another side to that coin. Out of sight, out of mind. That’s the 2 edge sword that separation can be.


So, the last few times I have asked about the details (I have them already recorded) just to corroborate on her idea and to perhaps get more details, I have felt crushed. I mean, going over those details again makes me feel sick.

I am too affraid of that as well (to wait longer). But I am doing to concentrate on the kid school first and then we will see. She even agreed to that, for me to wait and take a decision. But I also look at it at this way: if by that time, we dont see like it is something we still want, so be it. 2-3-4 weeks should not make a difference if we really wanted it in the first place.

Also, I can bet with my heart that it is me going all over the place with this but not her, unfortunately. I can probably tell you that she doesn't even think about it during the day. It is sad, but it is the truth.

EDIT: Also, remember I said school is due June 11-12, so that will be a time when the decision has to be taken because it will mean whether she will have to quit her job or not.


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## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> So, the last few times I have asked about the details (I have them already recorded) just to corroborate on her idea and to perhaps get more details, I have felt crushed. I mean, going over those details again makes me feel sick.
> 
> I am too affraid of that as well (to wait longer). But I am doing to concentrate on the kid school first and then we will see. She even agreed to that, for me to wait and take a decision. But I also look at it at this way: if by that time, we dont see like it is something we still want, so be it. 2-3-4 weeks should not make a difference if we really wanted it in the first place.
> 
> Also, I can bet with my heart that it is me going all over the place with this but not her, unfortunately. I can probably tell you that she doesn't even think about it during the day. It is sad, but it is the truth.


Then that can be a sign that you can’t R. You don’t want to rug sweep and pursue R out of fear of starting over. It is important to know what it is you’re forgiving. You already know there were 4 guys and how many times they each had her. Some things you will want to know is was there additional hook ups while separated? Was there an affair before all these guys? Those should be very important details to you and you should not be afraid to get the answers.

Some guys want to know what their wife did with the OM beyond straight sex (anal, swallowing, etc) but that may not be important to you or you don’t want to know and that is completely up to you but did she continue to have more sex after the separation or if there was another affair before all of this should be absolutely answered.

You will need to have that conversation in person and without it being rushed or interrupted by your kid or mother in law. I know you said that you had text conversation but for such an important conversation, it has to be in person. You can look at her eyes and body language to see if it’s the truth and if she seems disgusted with herself for hurting you. It also important for her to see the hurt in your eyes. You have been emotionally closed off to her to for a long time. Only by seeing the hurt in your eyes will she realize that she was wrong that you stopped loving her.


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## fido3039

jsmart said:


> Then that can be a sign that you can’t R. You don’t want to rug sweep and pursue R out of fear of starting over. It is important to know what it is you’re forgiving. You already know there were 4 guys and how many times they each had her. Some things you will want to know is was there additional hook ups while separated? Was there an affair before all these guys? Those should be very important details to you and you should not be afraid to get the answers.
> 
> Some guys want to know what their wife did with the OM beyond straight sex (anal, swallowing, etc) but that may not be important to you or you don’t want to know and that is completely up to you but did she continue to have more sex after the separation or if there was another affair before all of this should be absolutely answered.
> 
> You will need to have that conversation in person and without it being rushed or interrupted by your kid or mother in law. I know you said that you had text conversation but for such an important conversation, it has to be in person. You can look at her eyes and body language to see if it’s the truth and if she seems disgusted with herself for hurting you. It also important for her to see the hurt in your eyes. You have been emotionally closed off to her to for a long time. Only by seeing the hurt in your eyes will she realize that she was wrong that you stopped loving her.


No, I didn't have any of those conversations over text, it was face to face always. And yes, I did get over the details - what type of sex, etc. and that's what I said makes me feel sick. Yes, after she came clean I repeatedly asked for more details each and every time we get together. Only last time I stopped asking for that. It is the details that I dont want to know more as every time I do it seems i take two steps back.


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## colingrant

fido3039 said:


> To be honest, I really find this hard to believe. Also, I wont say I am wealthy, but I am in a good position, so it is highly unlikely she can do any better. Also, lets think about this: just take a look at the facts on how she went to do those things.. it just tells you something about her intelligence.


I'd recommend not finding anything hard to believe to help manage and protect your future emotional health. Just to put into perspective, my wife of over 25 years has never cheated....BUT knowing the vulnerability of human emotions, it's not hard for me to believe she can one day be unfaithful. It only requires a perfect storm of scenarios.

Her emotional state, another man who's also broken and opportunistic and other circumstances. Has nothing to do with you, me the other man or anything you can control. It's circumstantial with only the will and integrity of the waywards that stand between walking away or allowing it to happen.

This is why waywards say "it just happened". Which is b.s. by the way. What's really being said is it happened, but I did not stop it. Do I doubt my wife would cheat? Yes, I doubt it. Would I find it hard to believe if she cheated? No, I would not, knowing what I know from personal experience and from reading hundreds if not thousands of infidelity stories like yours since 2017.

My reality has significantly shifted from being real to being ultra real after being cheated on by my 2nd fiancé and coming to understand infidelity. I would recommend you consider adopting a realistic view of how this it works, as it will help you defend your heart and mind when or if it happens again. It's not a pessimistic outlook, just a realistic one.

Regarding financial security and it's relativity within infidelity and whether she can do better. It often has no relevance at all. Women will cheat with a guy with no money, out of shape, lives at home and unattractive, as long as that guy makes her feel better about herself. No different than a person seeking drugs to visit an emotional state that feels good if only for a few fleeting moments. *Literally and sadly that's all it takes*.

Let's take a man who has a beautiful wife, career and life. He goes to a club and a woman he's always been attracted to and vice versa is there. You see her from a distance but can't believe how hot she's looking, wearing a short white sundress, no stockings, heels and nothing short of being edible. In fact you're slightly irritated because she has that effect on you. You've just completed your 2nd glass of wine and her presence reminds you it's time to go.

You get up to leave and starts walking to your car. She saw you leave from a distance, excuses herself from her friends and catches up to you before you enter your car. She too has had a little to drink and the exciting circumstances are too intoxicating to stop.

After an odd silence that often comes when one is out of small talk she pulls at your tie and smothers you with an assertive kiss, while rubbing your crotch. Women know you're as good as gone when this happens. If you are healthy, there's a 95% chance you will have a full boner in less than 60 seconds. Here is where the rubber meets the road.

Boners compromise logic and reasoning. Period. After making out she says, follow me to my place and you say OK. Next thing you know, it's 4am and your wondering what happened and why? Guess what? That happened to me, accept when I was following this woman home, my boner deflated (by 2/3 ) and 10 minutes elapsed while driving during such time I came to my senses and thought about my wife and life. When my potential AP made a sharp left off of New York avenue, I stayed straight, literally and figuratively.

I learned an INVALUABLE lesson here. Never, ever place yourself in a situation where the boner takes over cause as a competitor against your morals and values, the boner is relentless. Don't test it. Just believe it. In a nutshell, this little story represents my entire message in this post of not being surprised. Never, ever be surprised. A woman who is frumpy, conservative and wears granny panties and thick brown stockings can compromise everything they ever stood for to feel good *if the right circumstances come together*. Nothing more. Simply to feel good.


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## SunCMars

fido3039 said:


> To be honest, *I really find this hard to believe. *Also, I wont say I am wealthy, but I am in a good position, so it is highly unlikely she can do any better. Also, lets think about this: just take a look at the facts on how she went to do those things.. *it just tells you something about her intelligence.*


You find it hard to believe that she may, later on, dump you?

Yet.....

You found it hard to believe she cheated on you in the first place.

.............................................................................

You are too kind with your words.

Saying intelligence, yes, putting her and the word intelligent together, in a sentence....

Um, and meaning there is this lack of that..... with her.

She is not smart in doing what she did.

And, she will continue to be, less than smart, going forward.

If you want to forgive and move forward with reconciling, go ahead.
This makes you a nice guy, but not necessarily smart.....either.

Your' call.


----------



## loblawbobblog

fido3039 said:


> No, I didn't have any of those conversations over text, it was face to face always. And yes, I did get over the details - what type of sex, etc. and that's what I said makes me feel sick. Yes, after she came clean I repeatedly asked for more details each and every time we get together. Only last time I stopped asking for that. It is the details that I dont want to know more as every time I do it seems i take two steps back.


Sounds like you asked for more detail than you can handle. I didn't ask for that much detail 22 years ago because I knew I wouldn't be able to handle it, and when I confront my wife about this new information I won't ask for specific details. If it makes you sick now (and it should) it's always going to make you sick. You'll spend your life muscling through it, training your mind not to think about it and failing at that almost daily. Is that the kind of marriage you want? I almost left my wife when I thought she had slept with just one guy 3 times. If I had known it was at least 4 guys in quick succession, basically the same scenario as yours, I'd have left her immediately. Multiple guys inside her, and I slept in the same bed with her.


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## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> Let me fix this: On March, she had only 1 guy. Again, if she was really interested in any of those guys I guess she wouldn't come back begging to get back. The only thing I know has changed is that probably she is facing reality. She knows what she is loosing, the damage done to the kid, etc. That's the only thing I can think of. Normal mentally, this is a good question. I would have thought that someone normal mentally wouldn't of have done this. She said that she is remorseful and ashamed of everything, and that she has reflected on everything bla bla bla. I mentioned she is living at her mother's. Of course I know that for a fact, we dont live that far and it is where she and my kid are staying. Yes, the std came back negative.


Negative for now. Some diseases take time it multiply so to speak. 6 mo from now she may test positive for herpes of HIV.


----------



## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> No, I didn't have any of those conversations over text, it was face to face always. And yes, I did get over the details - what type of sex, etc. and that's what I said makes me feel sick. Yes, after she came clean I repeatedly asked for more details each and every time we get together. Only last time I stopped asking for that. It is the details that I dont want to know more as every time I do it seems i take two steps back.


Then stop chasing after more details. For you, it is pain shopping. She had sex with 4 guys x number of times. That is already enough info. Did she perform a sex act that was a deal breaker? If so, stop torturing yourself and just file for D. If she didn’t do anything beyond regular sex and you think you in time you can forgive her stop digging and test the waters about getting together again. 

What you MUST find out is did she continue to have sex while separated and did she have an affair before all of this started. Those 2 questions should definitely be answered before you decide to consider R. Those 2 questions are so important that I would even demand she take poly to prove them to you. The answer will let you know if you should even consider R.


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## Divinely Favored

Dictum Veritas said:


> In South-Africa, post-nups get thrown out so frequently that they are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can't see it being much different in the States.
> 
> There is a trend forming where seemingly iron-clad pre-nups are also being thrown out here. The rules are being changed and not in favor of the betrayed I'm sad to say.


Right! No judge is going to not give her CS. It is about the kid and not what she agreed to. Maybe if it is not this kid then she agrees to waive CS.


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## truststone

i got this from another post titled what caught mt eye was what this lady wrote 4 years later, I do it again

i just copied / past 

Hi @Newgem 

I'd like to introduce myself to you: I am a former wayward spouse too. Very similar to you, my dear hubby and I tried for a baby for a couple years, I finally got pregnant and miscarried. After that, we did some medical tests and found out that I was going into peri-menopause and he had low sperm count and they were not formed right. Long story short, we were infertile. It hit me like a ton of bricks--losing the baby AND losing the chance to ever have one again. My whole life had revolved around my identity a sexy, alive, fertile woman...and suddenly I was NOT any of the things I thought of as my identity. So my dear hubby and I mourned differently. He tended to withdraw into his cave and I tended to need hugs and reassurance. The more I tried for sympathy--the more he withdrew. So I thought he didn't care about me and just decided to do my own thing...and I met someone in a game. The OM in the game "said" I was amazing, smart, and interesting when my own husband couldn't care less (or so I thought) and yep, I fell for it and hard. 

So as you can see, I can at least understand where you're coming from--though I have to say that in MY instance, when my hubby discovered he told the OM "If you think I'm going to give up my wife without a fight, you've got another thing coming!" and I was shocked that he gave a ****! But after discovery, and after he essentially said to me that I could go if I wanted but if I went out the door I would never, ever come back again... I chose to stop and end it. After that, both of us, together, rebuilt a new marriage and actually reconciled. I think the difference between you and I, though, is that I realized that what I DESERVED, and was the rightful result of my actions, was to lose my family and my marriage. To receive the gift of time to be able to prove myself was SUCH AN ENORMOUS GIFT that I never, ever, Ever, EVER again took that for granted. In addition, the first time around, I really took the time and spent the time looking deep into my own self and the way I thought and literally changed my way of thinking. It's not just that I "changed my mind" but rather, I changed the entire way that I thought. And having made that change, thereafter and to this day, I know my weak spots, I share my weak spots, and I safeguard my marriage and my spouse from being hurt by me by literally GUARDING my weaknesses. 

For you, I suspect that right now the biggest motivator in your mind is that you don't want to experience the natural consequence of your choices. See, you didn't accidentally trip and fall onto the OLD website and sext with these guys via buttdial. LOL  You made little choices all along the way. That's how you cope with sorrow--by reaching out to others for attention. Attention= I am still loveable. So one thing you are going to have to just accept is that natural aftermath of behaving in an untrustworthy way, is that you will not be trusted. In your head--and your heart--you may THINK "Yeah but I mean it now. I won't do it again. You can trust me" but your words and your actions don't match! People trust when words and actions match: you do what you say you're going to do; you ARE where you say you're going to BE; you are with the people you say you're going to be with, etc. Once you start even "little white lies" words aren't matching actions! And thus if you are saying now "I mean it. I won't do it again. You can trust me" that means that you don't mean it, you will do it again, and you can't be trusted! LOL Make sense?

So #1 begin to accept that the natural repurcussion of infidelity (unfaithfulness) is that your partner will no longer have faith in you! That's just the cost!

Likewise, when you act in a way that kills the intimate closeness of a relationship, you can't just say "Can it go back to the way it was?" Envision it like this: if you had a knife and over and over again stabbed your spouse until they died, and then you realized what you had done, even if you are VERY, VERY, VERY sorry, and swore you'd never kill again and really did mean it--your spouse would still be just as dead, your spouse would still never be alive again, and you'd still need to go to jail because society has to protect itself! It's pretty similar here. Your actions where like stabs over and over and over again to your marriage. Because of the stabs (lies) it is now dead. Even if you are very sorry, swear you'll never do it again, and really will put in the effort now--the marriage may still be just as dead, it may never live again, and you'd still need to figure out how to protect yourself and others from your tendency to cope with sorrow this way. 

So #2 begin to accept that the fact that your actions caused the death of your relationship with your spouse. 

Now, getting through just those two things is often more than many people can bear. In real life, people very rarely do recover and TRULY reconcile after infidelity because it takes two miracles: 1) the unfaithful person has to be VERY humble and look at themselves and examine some deep stuff that can be pretty painful, and 2) the faithful person has to be VERY patient and generous at a time when they are the wounded party! 

I will write more maybe later tonight, but I wanted to start at least writing and see if we couldn't strike up a dialogue.


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## truststone

she was giving advice to the OP who posted 4 years later, I do it again


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## Divinely Favored

fido3039 said:


> Well, to be honest, I dont know the whole history. I know for sure the last one was a friend of one of her sisters. But who actually initiated the contact or whatever, I dont know. It might have been her all along. I know my MIL, and of course she has hopes that we get back together (I haven't spoke to any of them since then), but I know her well and she is suffering as well. MIL doesn't know her sister's role.


Why have you not informed her of it!!!!!


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## SunCMars

There is a man and a woman for each person.

Everyone can find a mate. (well, most can!)

Even a cheater.

Some people are masochists, finding and _subconsciously_ liking and seeking those familiar patterns of abuse.

For many, that drama rules, whereas, normality is found to be sleep inducing.

It is with this mindset, that bad girls and bad boys are Princess or Prince to them.


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## ABHale

I would suggest divorcing her and then decide if you want to continue the relationship. No strings attached if she cheats again she is gone.


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## jlg07

fido3039 said:


> Regarding the postnup, I will use that in my favor. It is not like I should concentrate on it, but she has suggested it, so I will definitively do it should I decide to give it a try. If all else fails, at least I can get out of it with a bitter victory. Of course I wouldn't of married her if i knew. It is not that I will stay for the sake of the children, but having her as SAHM gives me peace of mind, but obviously there is some work to be done on us. It is like I told him, the man you knew before is not going to be the man that will enter this new relationship, it will be very wary of your whereabouts. So yeah, it is like the update says, if I decide to give it a go, by next year I should know whether it is the right decision or not. I wont stay longer.


You need to see from a few lawyers if post-nups actually hold up in court in your jurisdiction -- MANY times they get overturned....


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## 86857

fido3039 said:


> Regarding the postnup, I will use that in my favor. It is not like I should concentrate on it, but she has suggested it, so I will definitively do it should I decide to give it a try. If all else fails, at least I can get out of it with a bitter victory. Of course I wouldn't of married her if i knew. It is not that I will stay for the sake of the children, but having her as SAHM gives me peace of mind, but obviously there is some work to be done on us. It is like I told him, the man you knew before is not going to be the man that will enter this new relationship, it will be very wary of your whereabouts. So yeah, it is like the update says, if I decide to give it a go, by next year I should know whether it is the right decision or not. I wont stay longer.


Sorry for my stating the obvious @fido3039 when I asked would you have married her if you knew she was the type of person who would betray you. Of course you wouldn't as you said. I guess I meant if you can get to love her again like you did before. I see your point about the postnup now, and if you're not staying just for your child then that's good, in other words you want to stay for her too.
A year is a short time out of a life. Many BS say they want to try because in the future they don't want to regret not having tried. So it's for their own peace of mind too.
Also we don't know how anything will be until we try it.

The posts (including mine LOL) have mostly advised against R.
However, you aren't put off which is a good sign. She seems very remorseful and suggested the postnup. I never heard of another WS doing that and I doubt she is thinking that she'd be OK because it wouldn't stand up in court. She doesn't know what the outcome would be.

Diificult I know, but I'd try not to focus on the physical side of what happened because you're only torturing yourself. If you do, it's going to make R a lot more difficult. It's said that men focus on the physical side of the A way more than women do.
I'd also look into that period when you weren't engaging with her/ignoring her needs (sorry I can't remember the details about it), i.e. what was causing you to do that. I've experienced that and I have to say it's a very tough gig for a spouse. I felt like I practically didn't exist so it was dehumanising in a way tbh.

Believe it or not, and I'll be shot down for saying this LOL, I think the fact that there was 4 showed how meaningless it was for her and she had zero connection with any of them. I doubt if she ever thinks how great it was, especially now in the aftermath. There aren't many people, married or single, who reflect much on a ONS once it's done.

Maybe have a weekend away together, to the beach or the countryside, just the two of you. Try to keep it calm, go for long walks and discuss it. I've always found that being in nature seems much more condusive to having difficult discussions rather than doing so in the confines of your home across the kitchen table.

Basically I'm saying if you do R, try to give it your all as best you can. You will have bad days for sure, so maybe tell her in advance how she can support you through those bad days. Get her to help you with it rather than letting that little voice in your head run your life. So you need to work out what she can do to help you. And maybe you won't know how she can help until you are in R . I think you have to give her a roadmap in that regard. Don't forget that truly remorseful spouses also have their bad days too. It's not like they can easily forget what they did either. So it's a kind of two-way thing.

I've always thought that every married couple, happy or not, should have a date night once a week (not once a month) through the whole marriage. I know many successful long marriages and I notice they do that automatically and have always done so. It's easy to get caught up in life and forget about each others needs, especially when there's children.
I also heard something recently which seemed like great advice. It was for marriage in general, i.e. not for after an A.
One person asks the other,
"What have I stopped doing since the early days in our relationship that you used to enjoy and wish I still did".
and,
"What would you like to have in this relationship that we don't have."
Clearly for the second one, in your case it's being faithful. But I mean things outside that.

They also said that when there's betrayal, the old marriage is dead.
So this is a brand new marriage with very clear guidlines on what both of you expect of each other, and it's not just about being faithful. You will have decide that you're going to be a team, it's 'you & me against the world', to make life for both of you and your child the best it can possibly be.
Cos we tend not to do that when we're getting married the first time and it's much more about wedding preparations and all the things that really doesn't matter. Find a great couples therapist. Try a few because like every profession there are good ones and bad ones. These days there are also reviews online about many of them, so do some research before choosing one.

I'm suggesting all these things and yet I know nothing about R because I didn't do it myself. So keep that in mind!

If you do R, I wish you all the best in this new life you are about to create and embark on.
Maybe that's a more positive way to look at it.


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## ABHale

In Absentia said:


> Why is it a possibility?


Because most of us have seen it happen.


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## ABHale

fido3039 said:


> No, I understand. If she wants to cheat she will cheat again, it doesnt matter. All I was mentioning is that having her a SAHM gives me peace of mind regarding my kid's sake.


False peace of mind. There are many SAHM that brought their AP to the home while the husband was at work. There is a cheaters thread on another site where they brag about what they do behind their spouse’s back. If she was brazen enough to do what she has already there is nothing to stop her from doing it again. Certainly not what she feels for you.


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## In Absentia

ABHale said:


> Because most of us have seen it happen.


Most of us? Who's "us"? I'm genuinely trying to understand where this stuff comes from...


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## ABHale

Vaughn on here has gone through this. His STBX is still keeping him from picking up his and his daughter’s things from the marital home. It started with false DV charge. There are a few others on here that have had it happen to them.


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## fido3039

SunCMars said:


> You find it hard to believe that she may, later on, dump you?
> 
> Yet.....
> 
> You found it hard to believe she cheated on you in the first place.
> 
> .............................................................................
> 
> You are too kind with your words.
> 
> Saying intelligence, yes, putting her and the word intelligent together, in a sentence....
> 
> Um, and meaning there is this lack of that..... with her.
> 
> She is not smart in doing what she did.
> 
> And, she will continue to be, less than smart, going forward.
> 
> If you want to forgive and move forward with reconciling, go ahead.
> This makes you a nice guy, but not necessarily smart.....either.
> 
> Your' call.


No, what I find hard to believe is that she could succeed in a way to feel comfortable enough to call it quit. About her intelligence, I was pointing out that the facts shows she is not that smart, and has never been (I have known her for a quite a while).


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## fido3039

loblawbobblog said:


> Sounds like you asked for more detail than you can handle. I didn't ask for that much detail 22 years ago because I knew I wouldn't be able to handle it, and when I confront my wife about this new information I won't ask for specific details. If it makes you sick now (and it should) it's always going to make you sick. You'll spend your life muscling through it, training your mind not to think about it and failing at that almost daily. Is that the kind of marriage you want? I almost left my wife when I thought she had slept with just one guy 3 times. If I had known it was at least 4 guys in quick succession, basically the same scenario as yours, I'd have left her immediately. Multiple guys inside her, and I slept in the same bed with her.


Yeah, pain shopping. I have stopped it. Reason I said I have had enough details already. Will it haunt me for life ? probably yes, probably not. I am a very egocentric and determined when I want to be. As a matter of fact, I wasn't eating or sleeping about it for a month, but nowadays both my appetite and sleeping pattern has come back. Do I get triggers about it ? Yeah, I do, but they are sporadic. I could tell that if I put in the effort I can basically have them under control.


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## fido3039

Divinely Favored said:


> Negative for now. Some diseases take time it multiply so to speak. 6 mo from now she may test positive for herpes of HIV.


Absolutely. We will be doing regular test going forward.


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## fido3039

jsmart said:


> Then stop chasing after more details. For you, it is pain shopping. She had sex with 4 guys x number of times. That is already enough info. Did she perform a sex act that was a deal breaker? If so, stop torturing yourself and just file for D. If she didn’t do anything beyond regular sex and you think you in time you can forgive her stop digging and test the waters about getting together again.
> 
> What you MUST find out is did she continue to have sex while separated and did she have an affair before all of this started. Those 2 questions should definitely be answered before you decide to consider R. Those 2 questions are so important that I would even demand she take poly to prove them to you. The answer will let you know if you should even consider R.


I will tell you what. I could care less about the details to be honest, and I am being real here. She did give me some details, nothing extraordinary. Was I going over those the first few times ? of course, not anymore (or at least, not as often). It is not healthy. I am determined. I know what I am worth. "test the waters" absolutely good advice. I want to know how I feel. I will find out if she had sex separated, she has told me that she is not going anywhere, but I must confirm it. I asked for the phone, didn't see nothing. She did not have any affair previous to this, she told me, I could also tell by the timeline and overall general behavior of her.


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## fido3039

Divinely Favored said:


> Why have you not informed her of it!!!!!


Please, read a couple of response back when I said how I have been playing all this long. I still have not decided whether to D or R, so this might be a reason as well.


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## fido3039

********** said:


> Sorry for my stating the obvious @fido3039 when I asked would you have married her if you knew she was the type of person who would betray you. Of course you wouldn't as you said. I guess I meant if you can get to love her again like you did before. I see your point about the postnup now, and if you're not staying just for your child then that's good, in other words you want to stay for her too.
> A year is a short time out of a life. Many BS say they want to try because in the future they don't want to regret not having tried. So it's for their own peace of mind too.
> Also we don't know how anything will be until we try it.
> 
> The posts (including mine LOL) have mostly advised against R.
> However, you aren't put off which is a good sign. She seems very remorseful and suggested the postnup. I never heard of another WS doing that and I doubt she is thinking that she'd be OK because it wouldn't stand up in court. She doesn't know what the outcome would be.
> 
> Diificult I know, but I'd try not to focus on the physical side of what happened because you're only torturing yourself. If you do, it's going to make R a lot more difficult. It's said that men focus on the physical side of the A way more than women do.
> I'd also look into that period when you weren't engaging with her/ignoring her needs (sorry I can't remember the details about it), i.e. what was causing you to do that. I've experienced that and I have to say it's a very tough gig for a spouse. I felt like I practically didn't exist so it was dehumanising in a way tbh.
> 
> Believe it or not, and I'll be shot down for saying this LOL, I think the fact that there was 4 showed how meaningless it was for her and she had zero connection with any of them. I doubt if she ever thinks how great it was, especially now in the aftermath. There aren't many people, married or single, who reflect much on a ONS once it's done.
> 
> Maybe have a weekend away together, to the beach or the countryside, just the two of you. Try to keep it calm, go for long walks and discuss it. I've always found that being in nature seems much more condusive to having difficult discussions rather than doing so in the confines of your home across the kitchen table.
> 
> Basically I'm saying if you do R, try to give it your all as best you can. You will have bad days for sure, so maybe tell her in advance how she can support you through those bad days. Get her to help you with it rather than letting that little voice in your head run your life. So you need to work out what she can do to help you. And maybe you won't know how she can help until you are in R . I think you have to give her a roadmap in that regard. Don't forget that truly remorseful spouses also have their bad days too. It's not like they can easily forget what they did either. So it's a kind of two-way thing.
> 
> I've always thought that every married couple, happy or not, should have a date night once a week (not once a month) through the whole marriage. I know many successful long marriages and I notice they do that automatically and have always done so. It's easy to get caught up in life and forget about each others needs, especially when there's children.
> I also heard something recently which seemed like great advice. It was for marriage in general, i.e. not for after an A.
> One person asks the other,
> "What have I stopped doing since the early days in our relationship that you used to enjoy and wish I still did".
> and,
> "What would you like to have in this relationship that we don't have."
> Clearly for the second one, in your case it's being faithful. But I mean things outside that.
> 
> They also said that when there's betrayal, the old marriage is dead.
> So this is a brand new marriage with very clear guidlines on what both of you expect of each other, and it's not just about being faithful. You will have decide that you're going to be a team, it's 'you & me against the world', to make life for both of you and your child the best it can possibly be.
> Cos we tend not to do that when we're getting married the first time and it's much more about wedding preparations and all the things that really doesn't matter. Find a great couples therapist. Try a few because like every profession there are good ones and bad ones. These days there are also reviews online about many of them, so do some research before choosing one.
> 
> I'm suggesting all these things and yet I know nothing about R because I didn't do it myself. So keep that in mind!
> 
> If you do R, I wish you all the best in this new life you are about to create and embark on.
> Maybe that's a more positive way to look at it.


Love her as I did before ? I am not sure and dont know if I could. But you know what, we, people change and there are events in life that actually make you change. For example, what if we decide to have a kid (she asked for this on her proposal), perhaps this event can change something in me. Right away I dont know if I could. Like I said, the fact of even touching her right now does not sit well for me, but I know this could change. I loved her before and I believe I still do, but to get that kind of love back is hard I guess, since it was intrinsically related to trust and this has been broken.

"Also we don't know how anything will be until we try it." This is exactly my point too. I understand people advising to dump her and be done, etc. I truly do. but all I keep telling myself: what is that I loose if i give it a try ? For the sake of my kid, for the sake of us, for the sake of my own peace of mind ? I am not saying I will be the old me, I wont stop working on me, I wont relay only on us, I have been working on myself and my own happiness and I plan to continue doing that even if we get together. I am not saying this in a selfish way, but to give an overall idea that I wont go back to the same me, this changed me for good.

"Diificult I know, but I'd try not to focus on the physical side of what happened because you're only torturing yourself."
No, to be honest, I can tell you I didnt sleep the first few weeks because, but against all odds, believe it or not, I no longer get tormented about it. My sleeping pattern has returned. My appetite. I am more focused on my work. It is not forgotten, but I have done a tremendous progress I can tell. I remember the first few days I could not believe the shell of a man I have turned into, but right now I dont feel that way anymore. It is not over, I know. I do get triggers, it is OK. But I can tell you I am in a much better place now.

I really appreciate all your advice regarding dates and everything. I can ensure you I have taken some great ideas from it, and for that, I thank you.


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## fido3039

ABHale said:


> False peace of mind. There are many SAHM that brought their AP to the home while the husband was at work. There is a cheaters thread on another site where they brag about what they do behind their spouse’s back. If she was brazen enough to do what she has already there is nothing to stop her from doing it again. Certainly not what she feels for you.


Ok, let me rephrase: being a SAHM gives me peace of mind regarding my *kid's sake*


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## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> I will tell you what. I could care less about the details to be honest, and I am being real here. She did give me some details, nothing extraordinary. Was I going over those the first few times ? of course, not anymore (or at least, not as often). It is not healthy. I am determined. I know what I am worth. "test the waters" absolutely good advice. I want to know how I feel. I will find out if she had sex separated, she has told me that she is not going anywhere, but I must confirm it. I asked for the phone, didn't see nothing. She did not have any affair previous to this, she told me, I could also tell by the timeline and overall general behavior of her.


If you really feel she has remained true through the separation and that she hasn’t had additional affairs before these 4 guys, then it sounds like you are able to move forward to test if R can work. I go back to my earlier suggestion. Spend this holiday weekend with her. 

If being alone with her without your kid is too much, then just do a family weekend. After months of darkness and now separation, you guys need something positive. I don’t know what’s fun that can be planned on short notice near you but do something. Living in Florida, has me spoiled with a ton of things to do all over the state but I’m sure there’s something within a couples of hours drive for you to do.


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## fido3039

Hi guys, just wanted to post this update to thank everybody for their insights, I try to respond to as many as I could, but there are way too many sometimes, but I do make sure to read them all.

I am going to take some step backs to reflect on everything, this will mean that I will probably not update this post for a few days, but please, keep anything you might find useful for me regarding my situation over here, I will make sure to read it and respond accordingly when the time comes. 

I have received numerous advice publicly and privately, and I couldn't be more thankful. ALL OF THEM are good and I can tell you I am in a much better place now to take on my decision, which ultimately as you all know, it will be my own.

Thanks again.


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## Rob_1

fido3039 said:


> Hi guys, just wanted to post this update to thank everybody for their insights, I try to respond to as many as I could, but there are way too many sometimes, but I do make sure to read them all.
> 
> I am going to take some step backs to reflect on everything, this will mean that I will probably not update this post for a few days, but please, keep anything you might find useful for me regarding my situation over here, I will make sure to read it and respond accordingly when the time comes.
> 
> I have received numerous advice publicly and privately, and I couldn't be more thankful. ALL OF THEM are good and I can tell you I am in a much better place now to take on my decision, which ultimately as you all know, it will be my own.
> 
> Thanks again.


smart decision, sometimes it can be a daunting task to get straight in the head after so much input. Take your time to relax, process and digest everything, and when ready make your decision. You can't let influences to push you.


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## Rus47

colingrant said:


> Women will cheat with a guy with no money, out of shape, lives at home and unattractive, as long as that guy makes her feel better about herself.


There was one thread on here by husband whose wife was bringing homeless men home to bang them. Multiple times


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## drencrom

Decorum said:


> You neglected your wife. I don't think most men understand how painful neglect is for a woman.


The "neglect" as you put it came AFTER he found out she boned 4 different men. Sorry, but when a man finds out his wife cheated, the first thing that comes to mind is wanting to vomit, not cuddle with her. 



> Tell her that you are going to own up to how you failed. That you have learned how truly painful it is for her to have felt neglected and like you didn't care.


Well, then she'll have learned a valuable lesson. Cheat on him and she can get him humbling himself to her and wrap him around her little finger.


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## ArthurGPym

fido3039 said:


> No, what I find hard to believe is that she could succeed in a way to feel comfortable enough to call it quit. About her intelligence, I was pointing out that the facts shows she is not that smart, and has never been (I have known her for a quite a while).


Then why would you want to stay with a person who is obviously inferior to you in every way: less intelligent, less moral, less empathetic, etc.? Don't you value yourself enough to think that you deserve better? Or are you Sir Lancelot, put on this earth to save all idiots from their own bad choices?


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## drencrom

fido3039 said:


> She has the right to demand alimony and child support once we divorce


She has the right to demand both, but only one, the child support, would be a given. Alimony? Depends. Did you forbid her to work? Does she have an education? I know she is a SAHM, that might work against you since you say it gives you peace of mind.

My x tried to go for alimony. Told the judge not only did I prefer that she worked, but that she has a business degree, of which I paid part of. Alimony thrown out.



> I have not supported them in any way since they have been away, it has been all on her own


That may be, but she could get retroactive support for the months you did not support them.


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## ABHale

fido3039 said:


> Ok, let me rephrase: being a SAHM gives me peace of mind regarding my *kid's sake*


That’s my point. Do you trust her to keep strangers out of your home? Away from your kids.


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## drencrom

ABHale said:


> That’s my point. Do you trust her to keep strangers out of your home? Away from your kids.


I can tell you from 1st hand experience that the courts will not care about that as she has a right to pursue relationships. Now if she brings someone in he can prove is a detriment to his kids, he can take her to court over it.


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## ABHale

drencrom said:


> I can tell you from 1st hand experience that the courts will not care about that as she has a right to pursue relationships. Now if she brings someone in he can prove is a detriment to his kids, he can take her to court over it.


I am talking about if they get back together and she brings a guy into the home. Or if one of the guys she has been with know where they live. There are some psychos out there.


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## drencrom

Ah, got it.


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## ElOtro

In Absentia said:


> Most of us? Who's "us"? I'm genuinely trying to understand where this stuff comes from...


Of course, no one of "us" haves reliable proofs about.
What I'm genuinely trying to understand is why such proofs are required when about something that colides with our personal perceptions and almost never when the opposite happens.


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## drencrom

In Absentia said:


> Most of us? Who's "us"? I'm genuinely trying to understand where this stuff comes from...


"most" of "us"...you know...as in a certain amount of people. No group in particular, just that some have seen it first hand.


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## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> Hi guys, just wanted to post this update to thank everybody for their insights, I try to respond to as many as I could, but there are way too many sometimes, but I do make sure to read them all.
> 
> I am going to take some step backs to reflect on everything, this will mean that I will probably not update this post for a few days, but please, keep anything you might find useful for me regarding my situation over here, I will make sure to read it and respond accordingly when the time comes.
> 
> I have received numerous advice publicly and privately, and I couldn't be more thankful. ALL OF THEM are good and I can tell you I am in a much better place now to take on my decision, which ultimately as you all know, it will be my own.
> 
> Thanks again.


Hey Fido, haven’t heard from you in quite a while. Have you spent some time with your wife, one on one or even with your kid to have some positive family time and to test the waters for a possible R? Let us know how you’re doing. Whether you D or R, everyone on TAM is rooting for you.


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## Livvie

fido3039 said:


> This might be my thinking, too. Like I said, having her as SAHM for my kid, brings some peace of mind to me. The fact that she is accepting this as well tells me something. Why would she agree to that if she was not interested in fixing it ? I mean, if she knows she will continue to do that why would he agree to it knowing what is at stake for her ? She wins nothing from this in the short term.


She wins spousal support.


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## Cynthia

Livvie said:


> She wins spousal support.


Exactly. Plus, it gives her a lot of freedom to do whatever she pleases. Watch to see if she is a homemaker or if she is a freeloader. There is a difference.


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## fido3039

jsmart said:


> Hey Fido, haven’t heard from you in quite a while. Have you spent some time with your wife, one on one or even with your kid to have some positive family time and to test the waters for a possible R? Let us know how you’re doing. Whether you D or R, everyone on TAM is rooting for you.


Hi guys, thanks for checking in. Do not worry, I pretend to update this as my journey progresses. There has not been a lot of news recently, reason I haven't posted.

Right now, I dont believe R would be anyway possible. Reason I say this is because we have mainly grown apart in almost two months of being separated. I could care less about what she is doing and I bet she does feel the same about me. We have nailed the kid's school, which was my main goal. Last time we talk in person, we agreed that by the end of this month I will probably make a decision (yes, not us, me, since she said it is on me and that she will accept whatever decision I make). 

Regarding me, I have recovered my sleeping pattern and I have let the mind games blow away from me (reason which I believe I have recovered my sleep). I no longer think about what she did or anything like that. Also, I no longer feel attracted to her anymore, I mean, I knew I didnt, but it has come to my surprise that I dont see her the way I used to see her before, even after I found out about the situation. I believe this is mainly due to implementing NC the way I have done - I had the kid's party last Sunday and none of her relatives (her included) were invited. She was not upset about it because I had a talk with her weeks before that it would be better if she did one to him and I do mine, so this again tells me that we have come to terms that this is the way things are going to be.

I will try to update later as I see progress, but I dont think there will be any before June 30 or so. And I will only talk to her on that day if she ask and it is just to give closure and clarity to her that it is better we continue our journey separated being the best parents we can be for the kid.

Regards


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## jsmart

Wow, I’m very happy that the separation has allowed you to detached from your WW. If D is the route that you go, we will guide and support you. No one will blame you for being disgusted by what she has done. 

The fact that she too appears to be detached, leads me to believe that she has probably continued to hookup with someone. I tell every betrayed that if your wayward is not fighting for you like their life depends on it, there’s no way they should offer R. We have BHs that muscled through R with a WW that was lukewarm to only find out there were further betrayals after their d day. Sending you positive vibes to help keep your resolve so you don’t become one of those guys.


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## fido3039

jsmart said:


> The fact that she too appears to be detached, leads me to believe that she has probably continued to hookup with someone.


To be honest, she is too naive and she is probably thinking about what I would say by the 30. So she might be waiting until then, but I am pretty damn sure that she knows what is gonna be. Also, the thrill of the hookups for her was because she was married and had a husband, now that she no longer has either, there is no thrill for her anymore, not that I care to be honest.


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## fido3039

Oh I forgot to add that I have continued to work on myself. I am reaching new leves in shape that I had not got in a while and will continue to do so. Also, I had a promotion at work which helped my self steem as well. I am also enjoying being by myself - this is not something totally new to me, as I used to be by myself before I was married almost 5 years ago, so muscle memory. I have not dated yet, but I have a couple of girlfriends that I have met that I chat with on a regular basis, which also has help me boost my self steem. So, all in all, I believe I am on a good track, considering it just been two months since all this mess.


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## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> Oh I forgot to add that I have continued to work on myself. I am reaching new leves in shape that I had not got in a while and will continue to do so. Also, I had a promotion at work which helped my self steem as well. I am also enjoying being by myself - this is not something totally new to me, as I used to be by myself before I was married almost 5 years ago, so muscle memory. I have not dated yet, but I have a couple of girlfriends that I have met that I chat with on a regular basis, which also has help me boost my self steem. So, all in all, I believe I am on a good track, considering it just been two months since all this mess.


Dude, you just put a big smile on my face. We always recommend that a betrayed get busy working on themselves. You are putting in the effort and in no time you will have your mojo back. Your kid needs a strong dad to guide him/her through life. When they get older, they will eventually learn the reason their family blew up was because of mommy’s betrayal of their father. It ALWAYS all comes out.


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## bygone

your wife is not stupid, most cheaters are smart enough to control their partner.

she knows that the marriage is over.

she doesn't expect your forgiveness. The number and comfort of relationships should make you understand that she is ready to get out of marriage. Do not believe that she is not with anyone in nc. ready to start her new life.

she did not intend to give up relations.

it is waiting for you to collect yourself and divorce on harmonious terms.

you will have conversations about your children and other issues,

I'm sure he spent more time with her lawyer dealing with the divorce than you and has plans for her new situation.

We follow your updates.

I think you made the right decision. r would be difficult for you.


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## Marc878

fido3039 said:


> Oh I forgot to add that I have continued to work on myself. I am reaching new leves in shape that I had not got in a while and will continue to do so. Also, I had a promotion at work which helped my self steem as well. I am also enjoying being by myself - this is not something totally new to me, as I used to be by myself before I was married almost 5 years ago, so muscle memory. I have not dated yet, but I have a couple of girlfriends that I have met that I chat with on a regular basis, which also has help me boost my self steem. So, all in all, I believe I am on a good track, considering it just been two months since all this mess.


Make sure that raise doesn’t get included into any of the divorce calculations. This is a busier transaction now.
As you’ve seen separation is a prelude to divorce.


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## Marc878

bygone said:


> your wife is not stupid, most cheaters are smart enough to control their partner.
> 
> she knows that the marriage is over.
> 
> she doesn't expect your forgiveness. The number and comfort of relationships should make you understand that she is ready to get out of marriage. Do not believe that she is not with anyone in nc. ready to start her new life.
> 
> she did not intend to give up relations.
> 
> it is waiting for you to collect yourself and divorce on harmonious terms.
> 
> you will have conversations about your children and other issues,
> 
> I'm sure he spent more time with her lawyer dealing with the divorce than you and has plans for her new situation.
> 
> We follow your updates.
> 
> I think you made the right decision. r would be difficult for you.


Yep, you will probably be approached for the ‘let’s be friends’ game. This is for her not you.
Definition of friend - loyal, honest and trustworthy. She’s not friend material.
You can achieve no contact. Limit communication to kids or D only. Text or email. She has her time and you have yours. Keep everything separate. It works.
If not you will keep yourself bound,


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## BigDaddyNY

@fido3039 hows it been going?


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## fido3039

BigDaddyNY said:


> @fido3039 hows it been going?


Hey @BigDaddyNY , sorry for not posting for such a long time.

How is been going?

So, as much as I wanted to keep what I thought I had (family), the remorse of feeling the betrayal and lack of respect towards me and my family ultimately kept me for even trying. I know I couldn't have lived with it, even if nobody knew. She wanted us to try it, but she ultimately accepted my decision without hesitation. It is incredible how we have turned out to be "strangers" in such a short period of time (almost 8 months). We don't even say hi or bye when handing out the kid. And the perhaps two or three at most text we have in a week, are just regarding the kids school. I know I am the only one giving thoughts to this still to this day from time to time. I don't cry or get sad anymore, it is just sorrow to see how it turned out to be.

We know have separate lives and one common goal, which is raising our child. She has him from Monday to Friday evening, when I pick him up until Sunday evening. I am not paying child support or alimony, the divorce was settled and done on late August. I believe she somehow felt sorry towards me for what she did and did not asked for anything. I take care of the kids spenditures at his school in full, this is because I wanted him to study in a good school. She moved to a 2 bedroom apartment which she is paying by herself and I am living in the big house I bought for us around four years ago alone.

Sometimes it feels like this is how is going to be for me for the rest of my life. And I still give thoughts to what happened, so still have to get through that, but it just because for whatever reason I tend to think or believe she won.

I have given dates a try, and I have had fun. But nothing really fulfils me in a way to get engaged again. It is like I am always putting in balance what I would get out of a relationship vs staying single and the latter always win. I am Ok with occasional dating. It is the same thought I had with my ex - what would be my benefit if I give it a try ? What will I be getting ? Nothing.

Hopefully I don't get the impression I am extremely sad or unhappy, because that is not true. Work and a couple of hobbies have kept me busy. Just wanted to vent and give an overall ideal of how it's been going, feel extremely well to expose it out in writing!

Feel free to ask away in case I have missed some details, and thanks for asking, appreciated.


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## bygone

Your divorce is over and your wife is living her own life, she can sleep with whoever she wants but at the end of the day she has to admit to herself that she's a known ****.

I'm assuming she didn't get therapy because it wasn't a problem for her, she wanted and went to bed, she's still going to bed.

you should do the same

stop thinking about your wife and her relationships, don't take unnecessary responsibility, start to revive your social life


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## Rob_1

fido3039 said:


> But nothing really fulfils me in a way to get engaged again.


This is why you think you wife "won". True is, YOU are the one making her "win" but it's all in your head. Reality is, she won nothing, but the inner knowledge that she lost her marriage do to her being a serial cheater. She will go to her grave knowing that, regardless if she cares or not. 

You in the other hand, had let "one" individual out of billions in this planet to dictate the course of your life. If you haven't realized it yet, there's millions, and millions of people that get cheated on, and use that opportunity to get into a much better and fulfilling relationship where they, looking back, just wonder "what that hell was it that they were lamenting from the previous relationship??". 

It's all within yourself to seek whatever is that will fulfill your life, or dwell in the past and live negatively by it.


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## Rus47

fido3039 said:


> I have given dates a try, and *I have had fun.* But nothing really fulfils me in a way to get engaged again. It is like I am always putting in balance what I would get out of a relationship vs staying single and the latter always win. I am Ok with occasional dating. It is the same thought I had with my ex - what would be my benefit if I give it a try ? What will I be getting ? Nothing.


If not mistaken, you separated 8 months ago? And now divorced for three months? This is very early in your journey. And miraculously you came out of it financially intact! Your good fortune is amazing! You rid yourself of some major baggage and gained independence. 

You are doing very well not to jump into *any* relationship at this early date ( if ever ). There is nothing wrong with remaining single and your balancing the pros and cons is wise. You dodged major misery this time. You need to figure what went wrong with your selection process that led to marrying a cheater.


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## jsmart

I’m glad that overall you’re doing ok and are busy living a full life. Connecting with friends and enjoying activities that you enjoy will be the best and fastest remedy to get over your exWW. 

I’m not surprised at your exwife’s indifference towards you. After giving herself to a string of men, she detached from you. The separation just put the nail in the coffin, as she very likely had been dating or hooking up with different guys throughout that time.

Do not feel like she won. @Rob_1 is right, she can put on a front that all is good but she knows darn well that she destroyed the marriage and broke up your son’s stable family life. Eventually the high of letting new men run through her will wear off and she will want a man that will love her for who she is and then, that’s when she will have to face that she has to lie in order to get any man of worth because if she’s honest with how her adulterous promiscuity destroyed her marriage, men won’t want to commit to her. Being a phony is not a good way to live.

You on the other hand, can face your future honestly. And speaking of your future love life, do not rush to get out there. Focus on your healing so you can eventually meet a. Good woman and not screw it up by making her pay for what your ex did. 

We’re rooting for your bright future. Come back and provide updates and use TAM as a place to vent and get advice on any issues that you run into. The same way you were helped, your future post can help others who are going through the same thing and find hope in your words and actions.


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## Rus47

jsmart said:


> And speaking of your future love life, *do not rush to get out there*. Focus on your healing


There be dragons out there, waiting to snare someone recovering from trauma. Some woman needing a daddy for her illegitimate kid(s). Someone eager to be a SAHM supported by a hardworking husband. Women your xWW's age who have already ridden the carousel so long their rear is sore, looking for a soft landing. I am guessing in a few years your xWW will be bugging h3ll out of you to get back together.

At age 39 you have YEARS ahead to enjoy life on your terms without worrying about another wayward. Your really need to analyze how you ended up lashed together with this one.

You mentioned together for 6 years before marrying. What prompted marrying after so long together? Was it at her instigation?


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## fido3039

bygone said:


> stop thinking about your wife and her relationships, don't take unnecessary responsibility, start to revive your social life


To be honest, I could care less about her relationships, I mean, I gave up on that long time ago after thinking to myself: what worse can it be for her to date mens when she was still living with me sharing our own bed ? It isn't about her life, it is about mine.

Yes, i have taken on things I have always liked to do, and this gets me motivated. I can't say I am very social to be honest, but I actually switched to work from office so at least I can see and interact with my co-workers every day.


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## jsmart

fido3039 said:


> To be honest, I could care less about her relationships, I mean, I gave up on that long time ago after thinking to myself: what worse can it be for her to date mens when she was still living with me sharing our own bed ? It isn't about her life, it is about mine.
> 
> Yes, i have taken on things I have always liked to do, and this gets me motivated. I can't say I am very social to be honest, but I actually switched to work from office so at least I can see and interact with my co-workers every day.


Your progress is proof of the power of the 180 to help you detach. Many newly betrayed spouses come here, especially men, having a hard time detaching. We recommend that they implement the 180 and get busy with their life but many instead double down on trying to nice their spouse to “win their love, which makes them spiral down more because that never works.

I know you came for guidance and to have a place to vent but another that you’re doing is giving others hope. Many who come here desperately looking for advice, will look at how you’re moving forward despite the hurt break. We can still feel some of your hurt through your words but we also see the tremendous progress. Please keep coming back and update TAM on your progress, you have no idea how many people who are at rock bottom you will save.


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## DonJuan

fido3039 said:


> So looking for some advice here. I know for sure the majority of advice will be to "move on", but please, before recommending so, consider the scenario, as this is what I am most confused about. I will try to keep it short.
> 
> 12 years together, 6 married, 5 year old son. So, a month ago I found out my wife cheated on me multiple times with different mens (4 in total). This will surely sound BIG, and it does, but I am going to give some perspective. After I found out, we separated, basically she moved out with our kid. The way I found out was that I checked her phone, and while I did find out that she did, I wasn't sure how many times and with how many mens. I went no contact with her immediately and only talk about the kid.
> 
> So over the last year or so, our relationship deterioted deeply, to the point that I neglected sex to her for the last 6 months or so, this was previous to the end of January. Upon not feeling very well with the situation and at the risk of loosing my family, I started to treat her better - meaning, I would go on date, have more sex, etc. She was accepting that and was feeling comfortable again with me. We had very good times over the next two months or so (until April). Anyway, I noticed a change in her behavior from last year, and it was that she kept using her phone more often, something that she had never done in our years together and this caught my attention. So this got me curious and one night in April I went to check it and found out. At the time I did not confronted her with all the details, I just asked her and she admitted and I asked her to move out and she did. The next day when she moved out, she told me that she wanted to speak with me about the situation and she came home and told me that she was sorry, crying, etc. but I told her we need to keep distance and she left again. She left a lot of her and the kid's clothing at home, mainly due to accommodation and I let her do it until she can find a place.
> 
> Now, over the next couples of weeks of April I kept communication only regarding the kid, she respected that. She never tried to reach me or anything, she respected my boundaries. She is staying at her mother's. Fast forward to April's last Friday, I offered her to keep the kid while she can find a place, so that he is not uncomfortable sleeping elsewhere. I even suggested her that I can keep him and that I will have no issues for her to pick him up whenever she please. This was early in the morning and I did not got a response from her until late evening, when she answered that if I agree, she can come home to discuss this. I told her no, that we should talk in another public place, but she insisted to come so that she can pick up some clothing for her and the kid. I had to agree.
> 
> She came home that day late evening, and we discussed the arrangement, meanwhile she started packing some of her clothes. She tried to somehow include the separation subject into the manner, etc but I kept holding her off, but i couldn't hold it anymore and had to ask her. I asked her why, why, why. I told her the nightmare I have been living in since I found out. We both crumbled, we cried together, etc. she told me she does not wants to leave, she was remorseful, that she wants the opportunity to show me how she has changed and will change, etc. but ultimately I helped her pack her clothing and she left. She texted me that she will wait for me no matter the time, etc.
> 
> I went back to No Contact, but after this day, she started to somehow be more inclined to talk to me. She respected my boundaries still, but was starting to kind of be more communicative and gentle, asking me on some days how I am doing, etc. Obviously, I always had flat out answers as "Fine, Ok, good". So in one of those days she messages me asking me how I am doing in general and how I am doing with her, etc. I couldn't help but told her that I haven't feel any worse in my life, etc. but that I know I will someday feel better. She then proceeded to tell me that she misses me, misses our family, that she loves me, bla bla bla. I told her to cut it off and ignored her, but she insisted. I told her that I wanted her to tell me those things she said in text to me face to face, and that to be prepared to have a clean, honest, and serious conversation with me regarding all that happened.
> 
> So we went ahead and got together in the next day or so and she expressed everything. I asked every detail of the encounters. From October last year until March this year, she had 4 affairs with different mens. The first man she had sex two times with him, the second man 3 times, the third man was a one night stand that she new at a bar and the last man she had sex two times. I asked every detail, etc. Of course, I have no specific way to corroborate this so I trust what she said, as I just let her throw it all out. These months were difficult months during our relationship, but I know nothing actually will justify her actions.
> 
> Now, for the last part, she has shown remorse and I asked her to come up with a plan on how we can fix all this mess, just to see what she would do or think about it. She told me she never had any intentions to leave me, and i know this, since I have always been the breadwinner and those mens knew she was married. She is deeply sorry about breaking the family and how this will affect our kid, but one thing she keeps reminding me is this: And that she wants to do it (get back), but it will not be because of the kid, but because of us, that while she understand his future is important, she will get back to me because of us. I have never had any doubt about her and I know for sure that regarding the timeline at least she is somehow telling the truth, as I did noticed a change in her behavior starting that specific time. She did not have any affair previously that I could tell or that she told me. But while I do want to keep my family, I am not sure I will be able to forget about that. All I worry about is my kid - we were always a happy family, and he misses that. We never had any arguments or anything. We just neglected our sex life for just too much of a time. She insist that she has changed and that she will change and that she will wait and accept that I wont be able to forgive her in a long time, but she wants the opportunity to show me. She has no issues with getting under any condition I may put as in open phone policy, etc. I truly believe her regarding this, because I know for sure that she never thought she was going to get caught, and now that she did, she knows how much she was putting at risks here. But I dont know if I will be ever to see her again like I used to see her. She has not yet come up with the idea of how we can clean this mess and I am waiting for her proposal, but in the meantime I was hoping to get some advice from here. Happy to answer any additional inquiries regarding information as I know I have left a lot out, so if you need some more clarity, let me know. Thanks!


I would simply forgive, since it’s for us, only takes us, and holding a grudge or resentment isn’t good for us. I couldn’t desire sex with my wife knowing she’s whoring around and already did 4 other guys. I couldn’t trust her either, so my plan would be divorce and move on


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