# 18 years, no O - follow up and advice needed.



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Okay, so things are going well. Not quite there yet but I'm optimistic. 

Brief backstory - hadn't been getting off, never planned to say anything to H. In March I had a moment of honesty and told H this. I had been faking (which I was flamed for already) so he thought all was well. However, he hadn't been working for it either. No oral or even touching down there in our entire marriage.

I started IC in May, primarily over this reason. At the time (March) I would have told anyone the only reason I wasn't getting off was because he wasn't stimulating me. Come to find out it was much more complex than that (of course) and I had many issues to work through. I've been working through both religious issues from my younger days as well as a stubborn issue about me 'not feeling worthy' I guess you would say.

The dynamic started to change between H and I. For 18 years my sexual satisfaction came from doing exactly as he wanted (which led to the exact same routine every single time.) It's been more difficult than I expected to let him start doing for me, sexually. 

About 6 weeks ago he did oral on me for the first time. It was surprisingly accurate and super awesome - (considering the fact that he hadn't been doing it.) I said as much to him and he has continued to do it and seems to be gaining confidence and trying different things.

Here's the remaining problem. At first I was only able to let him do this for 2-3 minutes before my mind turned on me and started being more concerned with 'he's only doing this because you made him' 'this is going to take too long and he's not going to want to ever do it again' and once I hit that point I knew it wasn't going to happen so I stopped him. 

I'm now up to about 10 minutes, maybe a little longer, before this happens and I say it's enough. 

I'm also having strange things happen. Twice I've told him I wanted to punch him. Once I felt like I was going to start sobbing. Other times I feel like I'm going to start screaming. Honestly these feelings are very primal compliments to what he's doing - but they are strange and a little scary. When this happens, though, I don't feel orgasm is imminent.

I've had 5 sexual partners and been married 18 years - no other person has given me an O yet so this is kind of new territory. I don't feel like screaming or punching someone or sobbing when I do it on my own. I'm not sure how far past this point of "violence" lies the big O. The reactions I'm having are primal - but so is the reaction that tells him to stop. 

Another problem is that he travels on business quite a bit so 5 or more days can go between giving this a try.

My therapist is older and she keeps telling me to imagine a lovely meadow. I don't think she's really getting it. 

Oh, and we do have a weekend away planned with no kids or distractions, but not for a few weeks still. I'm thinking certainly that will provide the best environment - BUT that's so many weeks away, I'm hoping it doesn't take that long to get through this last part of this.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Oh, and also I have a fear that when he sees a true reaction out of me it will turn him off. I know this is silly. For our whole marriage I've been very much in control of what I do and say during sex and it's been calculated and thought through and now it's random gibberish and doing silly things like biting pillows and kicking my heels. 

Surely someone will ask what H says about this - I probably should be more open with him about what is going on and how I feel there is this hurdle I need to get over. However - I guess this goes back to above, I'm afraid he's going to be turned off by the "real me".

This does have a lot to do with my stringent religious upbringing where I assumed a different personality on the outside and hid the real me that was flawed and all that other stuff.


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

The biggest issue in all this is trust. I don't know how you can face this without being open with your husband about what's going on in your head. He needs to be open to listening without taking the blame.

I'm not sure he's ready for that given your history. Add in the part where he's gone in between you being vulnerable and that's got to be tough.

You're trying to undo DECADES worth of repression and it's not going to go without a fight.

Its only been a few weeks and I think your body is trying to tell you to slow down a bit.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Yes, I guess trust is the bottom line. If /when it does happen it will already be too late if his reaction is bad.

And I do know how silly that sounds. 

I'm a vey emotional person and he has been my rock because he is so stable. I don't share with him everything I'm thinking or feeling because we are different in that way and I don't want him thinking wtf did I get myself into.

I fear this is a bait and switch. You thought you had one woman in bed but really you did not. And the new one wants to punch you.


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> Yes, I guess trust is the bottom line. If /when it does happen it will already be too late if his reaction is bad.
> 
> And I do know how silly that sounds.
> 
> ...


It's a risk yes and you will need to weigh out the options before you go there. And then you need to do it in baby steps testing the water so to speak. I wouldn't dump all this on him because he's already had the shock of his life.

A bait and switch is intentional. I don't get the feeling you did that. I did a bait and switch on my husband but I had no control over it. It was childhood issues that surfaced after we got married. No way I could have known that I would behave that way until it was too late.

When you do talk to your husband choose your words carefully. I would never tell him you want to punch him I'd say (when it's time) something more vulnerable like you're scared and that fear makes you want to push him away (push is a better word than punch).


----------



## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

Well,I at least your husband is willing to do oral on you so,
if he really didn't like it he wouldn't.

You need to be proud as it not easy to let go and be truthful
and open.I'm sure your husband will reap the benefits as you will 
when he sees you getting real pleasure.

Be patient and don't beat yourself up and it seems your husbands
wants you to be happy to.

Communicate with him what makes you feel good and like and
never think sex and pleasure is wrong.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Just go with it. Enjoy the moment. This sounds like it's new for you guys (oral) so just revel in it and think about how good it feels. 

Be open and honest with him.

I am not really sure I understand you wanting to hit him? Are you feeling violent? 

Are you able to O on your own (self help if you know what I mean)? Have you ever had an O?


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I don't feel violent per se - its the same kind of thing as how some babies are so stinking adorable that you say you want to eat them up. Which is a really effed up thing to say to a baby. There is an emotional surge and a physical punch would match it. I don't know how to explain it. 

Yes, I can O like gangbusters, sometimes every day. I have just never had someone else do it for me. 

Early in this process I had H watch and 'help' and I remember feeling terrified that he would not have an erection when it was over because it had been such a turn off to him. That did not happen, we had sex after, but he also didn't give any verbal feedback. I am having a difficult time getting him to talk about sex - but I do see his confidence growing and he is starting to talk more about it. 

I do know this whole thing is messed up. I'm trying to talk through it and really have learned so much on this board so thanks for the help and feedback.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I should add - although he did observe the real thing when I had him watch - I was still in control of that situation because I was doing it and I had control over my reactions and facial expressions and so forth.

What is happening now is not the same. I do not feel in control of myself and don't know what I'm going to do.

To be clear - I don't feel the need to be in control. I'm a pretty passive person. I do not like being in charge. Rather I have a fear that if I lose control he wont want to have sex with me again. He will be turned off by whatever happens.

I do not yet know where this fear comes from. I don't think its anything H has done because this issue pre-dates him. It could be my general fear of 'being real' that comes from religious upbringing. But this seems more acute than that.


----------



## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I expect women can probably speak better to the issue you're having however for what it's worth in my mind in order to orgasm you need to let go. For women like yourself who are used to being in control that can be very difficult. 

I really don't believe you have to fear your husbands reaction however you know him better than I do. I supppose ultimately you need to trust him.


----------



## JustAnotherMan (Jun 27, 2012)

have you tried getting yourself close to orgasm and then allowing H to perform oral? 

BTW, seeing and giving a woman an orgasm is precious gift to share with your H. It is the ultimate ego boost!


----------



## lovemylife (Feb 13, 2012)

I know how you feel. This is actually very common in someone that has repressed our natural expression and sensuality. Society puts such pressure on us all to behave a certain way and you are bad if you don't. Those raised to avoid being bad at all cost, end up with a lot of limiting beliefs.

First off, know that what you are feeling is not right or wrong, it is just feelings that you have. This is a result of years of repressed emotions and expression finally being close to the surface because you are opening up to your sensual side with another person. Many people will laugh, or cry, or have other emotional reactions when you get in touch with this kind of depth. You are connecting with your partner more deeply than you have in the past. 

Communication about how you have felt the need to control and tone down your reactions is going to help. Let your H know that you are trying to be less in control and toned down and let your natural reactions out. 

Fear of rejection is a big emotion. Talk with him about your fears and come to an understanding that things may be intense, but the love and acceptance is always there. This is a biggie, trusting that your partner loves you unconditionally and it is okay to express yourself. 


I spent a good many years letting fear hold me back Fear of being heard by the kids, that my H would wonder why the sudden change, of losing control, of not being good enough, pretty enough, the list of my fears were terribly long. I decided that I wasn't going to let fear rule me any longer, not just in the bedroom but in all of my life. (I am still working on this but I am getting better and better all the time) 

Since I made that decision, I have really been working on myself. I have grown emotionally and spiritually. I have worked on opening up myself to all of me. I decided to give myself permission to be both the wife and mother as well as the sl^t and that inner sex goddess that I have kept contained for so long. I gotta tell you, I am so glad that I broke free of the self imposed chains. 

My H loves to watch as I lose my "self imposed control" and really enjoy the pleasure of being fully present. All of this has led to much more open communication, greater trust and deeper love for each other. I wish we have begun this portion of our journey much earlier in our marriage. 

I still have those thoughts pop into my head on occasion and try to keep me controlled and from being fully free. It is hard to shut down such ingrained training and just let my body react and enjoy each moment fully. I just remind myself that this is a journey and my goal is to get better today than I was yesterday, each and every day. 

The benefits of this are so wonderful though that I highly encourage others to explore, expand and enjoy.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Thanks for all the feedback. Love - I can relate to a lot of what you are saying. It is difficult when you are raised with the notion that you need to fight against sexual feelings because no body wants a lady like that. 

I left my religion before I was married and thought I had left that all behind when I started having premarital sex - but apparently something remains.

Oh, and I did actually tell him twice I wanted to punch him - but hopefully he understood the context because it was more like. " <Explative> you are so <explative> good at that it just makes me want to <explative> punch you! <Explative - taking Lords name in vain, etc etc.>


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MissScarlet...there is a movie called Punch Drunk Love....it is an Adam Sandler movie but surprisingly it is nothing like other Adam Sandler movies. It is a straight up twisted love story drama...I loved it.

Anyway, there is a very odd but tender and intimate moment in the movie where Adam and the lead female are finally in each other's arms for the first time as a new couple...they had been chasing each other around a bit before that...and well, here is the clip:

Punch Drunk Love - YouTube


It is extremely raw, and some might find it utterly yucky...but I found it so sweetly endearing, because these two people are flawed in certain ways that make clear, open, honest vulnerability very difficult...so when they are TRULY honest and vulnerable, what they say is all mixed up with violent thoughts!

Anyway I totally recommend the whole movie, too. But this scene is what I thought of when I read your "punch you" remarks.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> Early in this process I had H watch and 'help' and I remember feeling terrified that he would not have an erection when it was over because it had been such a turn off to him. That did not happen, we had sex after, but he also didn't give any verbal feedback. I am having a difficult time getting him to talk about sex - but I do see his confidence growing and he is starting to talk more about it.


A couple of things jumped to mind as I read this that may help you:

1. As a man and a husband, there are few things in life as wonderful as seeing my wife lose control during sex with me. That I can do that do her and with her and give her that is incredible. No one else gets to do that, and no one else shares it with her. It is truly an incredible gift. 

Consider that your husband feels the same way.

2. It sounds like this is a process for both of you. You have outlined some of yours, but your comments about seeing his confidence increase and becoming more comfortable talking about this indicates that he to is changing. 

Consider that he has some of those same fears as well - fear that you won't like him if he reveals these things to you. So perhaps view this as you two taking the journey together.

Good luck as you continue the process.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

MissScarlett,

I can speak from a "similar" situation. My wife had 8 partners before me and she had never had someone else get her to orgasm. She had the guy with the "golden tongue" promise her...nope. Etc. etc. Needless to say she was pretty jaded. To her credit though, she never faked and was 100% honest with me. I sat back and just slyly grinned. I know if a woman is open with me...I can make her O big time. Needless to say, she let go of her issues and has never looked back LOL.

Your primal reactions are normal. When someone else makes you O, you don't have control, and you've built such an insulated world around you that you're having a reaction to possibly losing that control, meaning your husband is getting you closer.

I don't know if you'd be able to do this but have you ever considered being tied up and having a "safe word" basically he's to ignore your pleas to stop (unless you say the safe word) and make you orgasm. (PS your husband will have a raging hard on if this happens).

You can hit the bed, etc. yell, scream but don't let him stop. (even if you aren't tied up). You also need to talk to him about your primal reactions so when you do finally O, and who knows what happens, he's not shocked LOL. 

PS if he makes you O, he won't care if it comes with you giving him a round house. I guarantee it.

PSS Your husband wants to please you big time. He's into it 100%, hence why he KEEPS giving you oral and his confidence is growing. Also there are tricks to move it along faster. focus on the clit. Suck on the clit (and just the clit) while doing upward licking (this one takes a little practice). Go into the little upside down v part of the clit hard with the tip, then slowly move over the clit with the area just above the tip of the tongue on the top with lots of pressure.


----------



## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

I think there is merit to the previous poster's advice of having you get yourself close to an orgasm, and then have your H finish you off orally. Over time, you should be able to get to a point where you don't need to get yourself close, he can do it all for you.

Have you tried PIV with a vibe on your cl!t? My wife also really likes me to work her cl!t with my tongue while I penetrate her with a vibrator. Just some suggestions to get you "over the hump" until your H can give you an unassisted orgasm.


----------



## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

MissScarlett,

I have an idea of where you are coming from on those religious issues messing up your intimate time with the hubby. 
That is what I am currently battling with my wife. Although, you are farther along in solving the issues than she is, and my wife doesn't consider her religious hang-ups as the problem. I am the problem.

My wife was a sexual tiger while we dated, and for the first 10-15 years of our marriage, but somehow her religious upbringing and perspectives on anything sexual started kicking in, and she has turned into her prudish mother. BLEH!!

I applaud you for recognizing the religious aspect of the problem and trying to overcome it. My wife has the similar, "not feeling worthy, or clean" syndrome regarding her female sensuality that has been ingrained into her since her youth. It sounds like the same religion as my wife. I was brought up in that religion also, but with much less active parents, it was easier for me to leave when I became an adult. 
I could tell you more of the detailed problems associated with my battle with this religion and its twisted hold it has on my wife's sexuality, but I don't want to hijack your thread any longer.

I just wanted to say, I am rooting for you and your husband with this. 
BTW, it you want to punch your husband during one of those sexually charged outbursts, I say GO FOR IT! 
I would love to have my wife lose control verbally, and physically and just punch or slap me as hard as she can. 
It would let your husband know that his actions are waking the animal in you. It's sexy.


----------



## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

You need to trust your H. It seems like he will be accepting and understanding, but you fear being seen as vulnerable? I could be all wrong, but I say be open and honest and open and let him see you sexually enjoying yourself- that is a HUGE turn on to any man!


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I can relate to a lot of what you're going through OP. My wife has never been able to achieve orgasm--we're each other's first and only's, so nothing prior to compare to. She's VERY conservative in bed and won't let me do anything that might actually get her in the ballpark. HATES foreplay.

The thoughts of violence in your mind? Had those. Not a serious urge, but there have been nights where i'm lying awake looking at her and I'm actually simultaneously thinking about how much I love her and hate her at the same time because she won't take any responsibility to even get checked out medically, much less try anything new.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Batman - your phrase 'less active' makes me wonder if we aren't talking about the same religion. I am hesitant to name it in case there are active members here. I want no religious argument nor do I want some BS about how the church doesn't sexually repress.

Me getting myself mostly there and also me being restrained (actually a fantasy of mine) may work. I had been using a vibrator for 10 years so I know that would work but H is still currently jealous of it and is not ready. 

My mind has been very busy the past few days. I have been anxious and preoccupied and felt that perhaps another piece of the puzzle was about to fall into place. During the time since I started this thread I did remember 4 different instances in my childhood/ early adolescence that sent a very clear message - I have glimpsed your inner self/ sexuality and you should be ashamed of yourself. Not to bore with details but each event was significant and in all I was pretty naive - certainly meaning no harm. (For instance being caught playing doctor - even though as a kid the doctor is part of life and I had no clue about sex at that time.) It sounds stupid to type out. But anyway. I do think I'm getting closer to this fear of being rejected.

Sadly I'm on my kindle under the covers instead of getting more oral! (Not my fault!)


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> It is difficult when you are raised with the notion that you need to fight against sexual feelings because no body wants a lady like that.


I think your words above have a lot to do with your sexual problem.

Being taught at a young age that having sexual feelings relates to an undesirable unlady like woman can really cause a lot of trouble. I have even heard it said that a woman that desires sex is a ***** and has no control over her debauchery. That woman would be a cheat and is worthless as a wife because she cannot refuse to have other men violate her.

*When you have sex associated with shame and being a worthless person at a young age it has a big impact. Then when you have sex at a young age and you feel guilty and dirty then that just supports the above view.*

The Madonna/Hore syndrome has been applied indiscriminately in some families, cultures, and religions. 

I would not be surprised if what I have described above is the root of Miss Scarlet’s sexual problems. *Miss Scarlet, have you looked into this situation in depth with professionals?*
Blunt


----------



## gumtree (Jun 1, 2013)

Can I just say Miss_Scarlett (love it, I'm a huge GWTW fan) that what you are doing takes a huge amount of courage? I love it. You are really getting to grips with your sexuality and your marriage and investing hugely. Despite this huge struggle you are making great progress. Your husband is also really impressive, his love for you shows in your story. 

I don't have any advice, but I do think you are getting close! 
For you, turning off the self conscious 'bedroom performance' and actually relaxing into the process of being truly pleasured is bound to have its speed bumps. The first time I ever O'd from oral sex was when I was quite tipsy and in a hotel with my H just mucking around, doing oral on me for his own pleasure. It took us both by wonderful surprise, mmmm. But it never happened unless I was truly relaxed and not 'trying' to O, if that makes sense.

Hubby is probably feeling some pressure as well. Learning sounds like lots of fun for both of you, and he will no doubt be really turned on by the new unleashed Miss_Scarlett, have you asked him how your new noises and wriggling make him feel, giving genuine pleasure to his woman? 

Oh, and have a bottle of champagne on standby because when it happens you both deserve to treat yourselves in celebration! Good luck, keep it coming (pun intended).


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Hi ya Miss Scarlett, can I just say how very brave you are to not only tackle this issue but write about it here. There are so many women with this issue and there is no ONE method of becoming fully functionally sexual. I think some selfishness might be in order here. He needs to show complete delight...Your Body is a playground, so let him play.

You know how when you rub a puppy's tummy, they do that jerking with their leg, the faster your rub the faster they jerk...? So cute, people love doing that and the dog usually loves having it done. The dog NEVER worries if you are doing it to please her, if you are only doing it because she wants you to, if this is something you really want to do at all anyway, she just relaxes and lets that giggle feeling come.

Excuse the tongue and cheek response here but as I was reading your post I kept thinking:
1. Couple glasses of wine.
2. Couple hits off a fatty...helps some women, but not others.
3. Soft Jazz
4. Silk scarves.

Open season on your body. The point is to fully and completely relax and enjoy all of your husbands touches and for him to concentrate on touching YOU in ways that PLEASE HIM, for the duration of the night, for hours.

Love hearing how your journey is progressing. You are so brave!


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Just a brief catch up. H is usually out of town during the week so have not had another opportunity since last weekend.

I had realized that I was afraid of his reaction if I really got into it. I was afraid he would make fun of me or that I would scare him off. I came to terms with the fact that I had experiences with this in the past. And also very early in our relationship he had made a joke (not being mean, he has a good sense of humor and we joke around a lot) about something I had said in the moment and I had never said anything since.

However, by being distrustful of his reaction I was remaining very guarded and this was not even getting me on the playing field for O.

So last weekend I was like - need to be brave - just going to let it roll. Said whatever came to mind, totally stole some of Scarlet Begonias sexts, all of that. He reacted by getting me back up to the bedroom 3 hours later. So, that was good. That was a good reaction. 

Also things have changed a lot for me physically. I am having the physical side or arousal happening - not just mental like it was before. He had reached over me when I was on the computer sunday and I got goosebumps. But also blood rushing 'down there' - man I feel bad for you guys because if I had a penis everyone would be able to tell what was on my mind and I would start getting uninvited to things.

When I started therapy it was because I needed a way to deal with my anger that my husband was not touching me. At the time I had no idea how many issues I was dealing with and how much I was playing into this problem. I have always mentally enjoyed sex but I'm realizing how much that did not translate into my body due to my fear of exposing myself (emotionally). Also giving his ego higher priority than what men really want - which is to really make us ladies feel crazy for real (thanks workingonit.)

Anyway - I have not gotten there quite yet but I do feel it is imminent. I feel all the pieces are in place finally. I feel like for the first time at age 43 I am having grown up sex. Its a huge step up from what I was having. And I would say that H is the best lover Ive had now. That is without even having gotten all the way there yet. And, of course, that is how it should be!


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Wow! That is truly awesome! Feeling the blood flow....that is a sign that your "problem" will not be such a problem with just a bit more time and practice.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I often wonder how many women do literally feel the blood flow like that when they are aroused. Any ladies care to comment?


----------



## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Miss Scarlett, I also applaud that you are fighting against your past instead of denying that there was a problem. I was a late bloomer (early 30s!), so I had no clue how I would feel or react half the time! I'll never forget the first time my Ex did oral on me. I started laughing hysterically, and couldn't stop. Poor guy! I just kept telling him to trust me that I wasn't laughing at him -- that I couldn't help it, but it was because it was the most amazing thing I'd ever felt. I didn't expect to react that way, either, and I felt really embarrassed. Certainly didn't feel very sexy, lol, but it was a moment I will never forget because of the vulnerability and trust we both had to show for each other. We felt very close afterward because of what we had shared. 
Perhaps it will be something like that for you -- if you can keep him in the loop with your feelings as they're happening, and just let your body react naturally without judging yourself for what you think you 'should' do or say or feel (which I know is so hard, until you break through that barrier) you can both enjoy the letting go, together.


----------



## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I often wonder how many women do literally feel the blood flow like that when they are aroused. Any ladies care to comment?


I used to.  Hopefully, I won't be alone the rest of my life, and I will again.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I feel that blood flow, the tingling and pulsing when I am aroused and I never really equated it with what an erection must feel like. It makes perfect sense! Thanks for that analogy!


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I feel that blood flow, the tingling and pulsing when I am aroused and I never really equated it with what an erection must feel like. It makes perfect sense! Thanks for that analogy!


Pretty close!


----------



## olwhatsisname (Dec 5, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> I should add - although he did observe the real thing when I had him watch - I was still in control of that situation because I was doing it and I had control over my reactions and facial expressions and so forth.
> 
> What is happening now is not the same. I do not feel in control of myself and don't know what I'm going to do.
> 
> ...


 sharing life is a challenge congratulations. sharing your innermost feeling is so difficult. wasn't he ever suspicious at all??. together now ,let the adventure begin.


----------

