# Advice needed concerning future mother-in-law.



## Wrong_Rook (Feb 24, 2014)

Hello forum 

I hope that you are all doing well. I posted here earlier in the year concerning general relationship welfare, and I got tremendous advice. As such, I would like to get your input concerning a more specific matter: *How to deal with a somewhat volatile and controlling future mother-in-law.*

The matter concerns myself (male, 25 years), my wife-to-be (female, 24), and her mother. Her mother has been, for so long as she has been married (more than 30 years), the dominant and outspoken one of the family. To be quite frank of it, she is one to bark orders to members of her family, yet shrug off simple requests from others. She has said on a number of occasions that she wishes others would simply do things her way so that things could be done more quickly and to the point. Stranger still, if others do not want to do something that she wants to do, she whines and complains to try and wear them down. If others outright refuse her, she pouts or, if the present company is immediate family only, throws childlike tantrums. To others, my own family included, she has a tendency to condescend or, at best, insist on getting the final word.

She and I have had minor run-ins concerning frivolous matters (how to play a simple board game being a quaint example), and I think she understands that I will not be manipulated or worn down if I feel that her requests are unfair for the rest of the group. She still verbally snipes at me if I contradict her, but I do not engage her or give her any negative feedback. 

What bothers me, however, is how her behavior hurts my fiancee. Her mother clearly knows that she can be worn down or guilted into doing things, and I cannot imagine that she is ignorant of how this hurts her. As we are currently planning a wedding, my fiancee is already feeling especially frayed at the nerves, and this is only exacerbated by my future mother-in-law's antics. I swear, her mother has actually said (to others in her church groups), "Kids these days act like weddings are all about them."

My issue is this: *After my marriage begins, how should I engage my future mother-in-law?* Personally, I want to have a heart-to-heart with her concerning new boundaries. I feel that my wife's welfare is priority-one for me, and if her mother continues to, every day, subtly undermine the wishes of my partner, I should be able to confront her on this, indignantly so if necessary. However, I have also heard it said that doing so would only complicate things between my future wife and me, that doing so would create an uncomfortable chasm in our immediate family, one that, perhaps, my wife would eventually come to resent me for. I don't want to overstep my boundaries and make things more difficult for my fiancee, but I cannot abide by her mother continuing unchallenged.

I could type for hours on this issue, but I turn it over to you. I'll clarify any issues if necessary. Thank you all so much for your input.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Sounds greatly like you've got a classic example of a "matriarch" there who has unfettered and unchallenged carte blanche to basically do or say as she feels!*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I agree that what you want to do will only cause huge problems.

You are choosing to enter into this family. This is what you get. How long have you been dating your fiancé? All this time you have behaved one way towards your future MIL. Then you want to suddenly turn into someone else after the marriage? Not only will this sudden metamorphosis rock the boat with your MIL, but with your wife as well. It’s a bait and switch on your part. 

If you have these concerns about her mother, you need to talk to your fiancé about it now. The two of you need to come to a consensus on how the two of you will interact with her mother. Sadly I think that your wife, based on your description of her, will not want to change a thing. What does she say about her mother’s behavior?

Her mother is the way she is because the family (starting with her husband) allowed it and continues to allow it. She does not sound like a person who is able to compromise or discuss things. This is also not a MIL you want as an enemy.

I do wonder if some of what is going on is your misinterpretation of what your future MIL says and does. For example her comment: "Kids these days act like weddings are all about them." When a big wedding it thrown, it’s not just about the bride and groom. Sure, it’s about the couple getting married. It’s also about two families joining together and becoming one (to an extent). It’s about doing this in front of your community, family and Church. Are her parents paying for most of the wedding or are you and your fiancé. If her parents are paying for most of it… it’s her parent’s chance to throw the party of century (or whatever they can afford) for their daughter. Maybe you have a bit of a hard time seeing the world through the eyes of her mother. And perhaps some of her outlook is not all that wrong.

The way you describe your future MIL, you will probably have a lot of problems in your marriage. Whether your interpretation of her is right on or not, the fact that you feel this way about her will cause problems. But this is the family you have chosen to marry into.


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## Wrong_Rook (Feb 24, 2014)

Hello *EleGirl* 

I am very much aware that my description of my future mother-in-law sounds entirely one-sided. If I could do more to paint an unbiased picture, I would, as I want for a life for my wife and I in which we can all get along. However, I cannot sugar-coat much of this: She is, with her immediate family, generally manipulative and goes unchallenged by her husband and by her children. So far as her comment regarding what the wedding is about, yes, I am aware that the wedding is for more than the two of us. However, this is coming from someone who unabashedly undermines the welfare and concerns of her own family in order to get things her way. Again, I am sorry to make this sound so one-sided. If there were a way I could paint this more fairly, I would.

My wife-to-be and I have been together for more than six years, and we have discussed her mother frequently, especially more now that we elect to plan the prenuptial events with her "input" ("you should do it this way," "I've been to more weddings than you have," "all right, whatever"). She is the youngest of two, and, like everyone else in the house, any confrontation on her part is quashed by her mother's manipulation and histrionics. It makes her not just angry, but also hurt and at a loss as to how we, in the future, can hope to include her in our life if she continues to talk down regarding our desires and our ambitions. While I have had no problem taking my parents to task if I feel that they are being unfair, she feels overwhelmed by her mother's behavior, and, so much as she wants for her to change, she feels at a loss as to what to do.

I've heard it said over and over: *She needs to confront her mother, lest she will have to put up with what is going on for as long as she continues to permit it.* Yet, I do not feel that I can be so curt as to insist that she does so, time after time, even after we've discussed this numerous times. I know she is frustrated and I know that she feels embarrassed for her inaction. I want to stand up for my wife.

Also, I disagree that I would be pulling a bait-and-switch. Perhaps she may elect to see it that way (and it certainly wouldn't be the first of a number of perceived injustices from me or from others who disagree with her), but I am going from being the boyfriend to the fiance to the husband. My role in this family is changing, so why shouldn't my duties to my wife in this change? Again, I do not mean to say that I want to fight fire with fire, or that I want to levee threats against her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I meant that you will be pulling a bait and switch on your wife.. not her mother. Your wife is used to you being as you are now. If you suddenly become aggressive towards her mother, your wife will wonder who you are.

Taking someone like her mother aside and telling them how its going to be is not going to work. I know women (and men) like her. They do not hear what you are saying.

I think that it's your wife's responsibility to handle her own relationship with her mother. Perhaps your wife would benefit from counseling to learn how to be assertive with her mother. You attending counseling with her sometimes could help with the relationship dynamic.


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## Wrong_Rook (Feb 24, 2014)

I would love to attend counseling with her  I don't mean to sound bull-headed, and I apologize if I've come to sound that way. I just want for my wife to have a healthy relationship with her mum, and I honestly resent her father and brother for letting this persist. I know my wife is just as much to blame, but I feel as though she is the only one making an effort, a woefully underwhelming effort though it may be. We've spoken on this matter numerous times, as it seems as though we can't have an evening with her mum without things developing an undertone of confrontation followed shortly by everyone knuckling under. I've talked to her about wanting to stand up to her mum, and I've also expressed how I fear that this will create a rift amongst the lot of us.

I just don't know what to do: I feel powerless, and it's painful to watch my fiancee suffer this and to feel equally at a loss.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Wrong_Rook said:


> I would love to attend counseling with her


Which 'her' are you talking about here? 

I was talking about you and your wife going to counseling to deal with your wife learning to assertive with her scary mother.


In the mean time, avoiding her mother as much as possible might be a good way to handle this. 

Find a job on the other side of the world or country. People do this often to get away from family.

You could avoid the wedding problems by eloping. Of course MIL will probably make you two pay dearly emotionally for it.

Seriously, get counseling for your wife so that she can learn healthy ways to deal with her mother.


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## Wrong_Rook (Feb 24, 2014)

I was referring to attending counseling with my wife, as you suggested. So far as proximity is concerned, we will be about two hours away.

The wedding is not particularly an issue. We had spoken about eloping, and I'd not have a problem with doing so. However, the wife, while very much ready to be married, wants to have a wedding of her own, and she wants for us to be married with our families present (something I, too, want, even at the expense of a bit of strife).

It may be the case that counseling is necessary, I suppose. I do try to own up to my actions and missteps, and I really don't want to miscast anyone in an unflattering life. However, as *arbitrator* put it, I feel as though this mother-in-law-to-be thinks everyone's timidity to be just cause to always insist on having her way.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Your future MIL sounds very controlling. Does your girlfriend do as her mom demands or can she see that she does not have to please her mother? So many years of training is hard to undo and sometimes never can be broken. If your girlfriend can see that she has free will to make her own choices and lives her own life I would suggest that she be the one that tells future MIL to please allow the two of you to live your own lives as you see fit, mistakes and all. If I were you I would not approach future MIL, you will get no where but create hard feelings I am afraid. 

My husband's mother was very over-bearing, correcting at age 31 for not twisting and folding the bread wrapper the correct way when placing it back in the fridg, crazy! His sister just as bad. Husband could not tell them to leave us alone and I had to finally disengage from his family.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Ill be honest up front and say that my MIL sounds just like your future MIL. I have had to stop seeing my inlaws (I've known them for 3 years, been married for 10mths), I just can't keep putting my hand in the cage to get bitten.

My advice to someone in your position is still to try your best to get along with her - it may not work, and you may have to end up stepping back, but always try first to take the high road. She is your wife's mum, and will be in your life for a long time.

Your wife's relationship with her mum is not your business - fiancé, husband or not. You need to leave that one alone. You also shouldn't confront your future MIL. That is the worst thing you could do. It's your fiancés job to manage her family, it's your job to manage yours.

Talk with your fiancé about boundaries and then she has to enforce them - you can back her up, but she must be the one to enforce them with her family.

Like you, I would have no problem taking my family to task if they behaved badly, but every family is different









Good luck - you're gonna need it mate









_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Much of what you wrote is what my mil was. Your fiancé first and foremost needs to understand your position and feelings about the mil. In the beginning my stbx didn’t agree with how I viewed it. She had lived and learned this behavior her whole life as if it was “normal”. And it wasn’t. 

I took the approach right away with my mil that I just wouldn’t put up with her crap. I wasn’t marrying the mil and if she didn’t like me that was her problem more or less. When she was playing the manipulations games and I was around, I would call her out on it. Stand up to her.

My mil tried running the wedding like it was her own also dictating everything leaving my stbx in tears more times than I can count. I finally just told her I would pay for everything to shut up and either show up or don’t. We did the wedding our way. Her mother fumed about that to everyone but me. 

I never played her game, I never tried to play nice to keep the family peace. Ironically my mil was always very nice and respectful to both of us after we got married. The mil always told everyone that I was the only in law she actually liked. I watched my stbx brothers and sisters all have husbands/wives who tried to play the nice, don’t rock the boat with “mom” games and they all just got bulldozed by her. I never had any in-law problems during my marriage and the rest of the family could never figure out why we became “exempt” from her tyranny.


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

My mother is like that. It took me about 10 years of marriage before I started getting out from under her thumb.

She does not much like my husband, because she cannot control him. However, he has never directly engaged or criticised her, and that is a very wise decision on his part. He and I complain about her but even then he sometimes steps over the line in his criticism of her to me and it makes me angry and defensive of her. If he ever puts forward a different point of view to hers, she does not hear it. She is like that with everyone. So there is not much point in doing that. A direct criticism to her face would only serve to anger her and force my father and possibly us children to come to her defence.

The mother-daughter relationship is a strange thing. I think you just have to let your wife run her relationship with her mother. Make sure she knows you are there for her and support her, and avoid the mother as much as possible.


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## jay1365 (May 22, 2013)

You are right to be concerned, but your concern should not be about the MIL. Your fiance grew up in this environment. She has learned this behavior, whether she realizes it or not. You are not seeing it now because both of you are in the fog of early relationship emotions. Add a kid or two, some financial problems, a chronic disease, or whatever ratchets up the stress, and these learned behaviors that are repressed now will come to the surface. You will wake up one day and realize you are married to your MIL. I know you think your fiance is not that way, and I'm sure she isn't now. I think you need to ask yourself if you can handle being married to your MIL, because that's whats in your future. It will take some drastic, possibly relationship ending actions to prevent it.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

ClimbingTheWalls said:


> My mother is like that. It took me about 10 years of marriage before I started getting out from under her thumb.
> 
> She does not much like my husband, because she cannot control him. However, he has never directly engaged or criticised her, and that is a very wise decision on his part. He and I complain about her but even then he sometimes steps over the line in his criticism of her to me and it makes me angry and defensive of her. If he ever puts forward a different point of view to hers, she does not hear it. She is like that with everyone. So there is not much point in doing that. A direct criticism to her face would only serve to anger her and force my father and possibly us children to come to her defence.
> 
> The mother-daughter relationship is a strange thing. I think you just have to let your wife run her relationship with her mother. Make sure she knows you are there for her and support her, and avoid the mother as much as possible.


You sound like me, and yes it took years. 

To the OP- it was very hard for me to realize and admit how bad she is. We ended up moving away, she did get a lot worse when I got married. She actually called us 30 plus times during our three day honey moon. Our phones were off, but she was very angry we didn't answer. 

I am glad my husband was so patient with me, I did get counseling and worked on many things. Your GF needs to work on boundaries. I read two books that changed my life: Daughters of narcissistic mothers and Letting go of shame. 

We all get along better, it's not perfect but way better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wrong_Rook (Feb 24, 2014)

Hello again, and good morning to you all.

There are so many good questions and observations, and I will do my best to address them all.

First and foremost, to answer that question from *AVR1962*, is it the case that my fiancee insists upon placating her mum or does she not feel duty-bound to do so. The answer lies somewhat in the middle, and it is quite close to another issue addressed by both *honcho* and *jay1365*: how does my fiancee view her mother's behavior and will it be the case that these behaviors become manifest in herself. Again, we have been dating quite seriously for six years, and in this time, she has confessed that she was at first perplexed by my own family's frankness in discussing contentious issues while still address and acknowledging the other person's ideas. The idea of being so frank was a bit off-putting in the beginning, but, particularly after year four, we had a serious heart-to-heart about discussing things frankly, and of how we stand to lose nothing by, while respecting the other person, discussing points of disagreement or discomfort. As a result, she has said on numerous occasions that the way her mother and father operate in conflict resolution is indeed dysfunctional and that she does not wish to emulate it.

I acknowledge, however, *jay1365*'s concern as to how she may act under pressure, and I would like to speak with her at length about this, certainly.

At any rate, my wife-to-be seems ready to stop placating her mother, whereas her mother seems to be reluctant to loosen the apron strings. Of course, the ideal would be for the mother-in-law, myself, and my partner to be happy, and my fiancee certainly does do a lot to placate her mother. However, it never seems to be enough: one misstep, and an entire evening concludes in hurt feelings and cold shoulders. Not surprisingly, you become awfully tired of even trying, hence my coming here for advice, and hence my partner's frustration and humiliation in abiding by her mother's behavior.

It very much troubles me to hear that the solution for many people, such as *frusdil*, is to omit the in-law almost entirely from their life. Again, part of my seeking counseling on this issue is that I desperately want for my wife-to-be to keep a healthy and ongoing relationship with her mum.

You have all convinced me: to be certain, I'll not draw a line in the sand with the in-law. I will, instead, discuss this more thoroughly with my future wife, and I will try and support her in working toward coming to some sort of resolution with her mum, be it one of assertion or, reluctantly, one of omission from our lives.

NINJA EDIT: I missed your reply, *mablenc*, and I apologize for that. I will look into the literature and see what I find.

So far as phone calls sound, I can identify: hardly an evening goes by for us without the M-I-L calling her and wanting to know what is going on.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Please know that once your GF establishes boundaries it will get worse before it gets better. Be prepared, MIL will fight tooth and nails for the control. Your GF will need your support at that time more thn ever. But, it becomes easier once your GF learns to put boundaries up.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

My advice: move to Texas, don’t give her your address, and only take calls from her on Sunday.

Seriously, people like this are entrenched in their ways, not prone to compromise, and will likely be an on-going source of strife and grief. 

In this case, distance does make the heart grow fonder but it does make some personalities more tolerable.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

SpinDaddy said:


> My advice: move to Texas, don’t give her your address, and only take calls from her on Sunday.
> 
> Seriously, people like this are entrenched in their ways, not prone to compromise, and will likely be an on-going source of strife and grief.
> 
> In this case, distance does make the heart grow fonder but it does make some personalities more tolerable.


We moved over 1k miles away, my mother still pulled she strings from there, it's an abuse cycle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Jay1365 is right in that while you don’t see it now once you do start adding the stressors of real life with kids, job loss, illness these learned behaviors will surface in your fiancé. Long term you two will need to start to get distance from the MIL and while you might not like to hear that its about the only solution. Im not saying cut her out of your lives but the mil will not loosen the apron strings and your fiancé has to basically force that to happen.

Your Mil will probably want to dictate birthday parties, each and every holiday the list goes on and on. The two of you are starting a new life together and “Mom” at some point has to realize that. Humoring it will only make it worse as time goes on and some children can never get out from under the control and it reeks havoc on relationships. 

Your fiancés relationship with her mom is her business, not yours that’s true. The problem is your going to get dragged into the middle of it whether you like it or not.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

mablenc said:


> We moved over 1k miles away, my mother still pulled she strings from there, it's an abuse cycle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree completely *mablenc*. 

*Wrong Rook’s *future MIL was my mother. And yes boundaries must be set, lines must be drawn, and from our experiences distances and shields must be raised. And no, distances and limiting/managing contact are not an “ends all” but in our experience neither are boundaries and limits. It’s a constant battle – like dealing with a Mortimer Gaddafi or a Kim Jong il. She will constantly test and push, push and test. It’s a pathology at this point in her life and no she'll will never get over it.

In a similar thread on TAM, I wrote of a sense of peace we felt when my mother passed. I took a number of negative comments for that observation. It was not meant in ill will, nobody wishes that upon a family member but it is what it is.

Most critically, IMHO, is to make sure the mother’s sickness (and I believe it really is) needs to be kept (to the extent possible) from affecting the marital relationship and MOST IMPORTANTLY the children.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I understand OP why you see it as unfortunate that I've had to stop seeing my inlaws. 

Believe me, I did try. I was never anything but respectful. They were invited over to our house (hubby's ex never did that, and I don't blame her given how she was treated, but I decided to try), I put photos up of both sides of our family (hubby's ex had no pics up of his family - again, given how she was treated, I don't blame her. I'll be taking them down too now). I made sure they knew about their granddaughters school concerts/sports events/scout events...hubby never remembered to ask them. That will all stop now too. I tried and tried and tried. All for nought. There's no standard high enough that I can attain, before I'll be good enough for these people. 

So, I've dropped my end of the rope. Hubby and I don't need MIL and FIL's approval to have a loving, happy marriage. I don't need her to like me, to be happy - it'd be nice if she did for hubby's sake, but me personally, I don't give a hoot, lol.

Stepping back should only ever be a last resort, after all other avenues have been attempted. It's in your best interests to get along well with your MIL. It's just in some cases, it's not possible. You need to be aware of that.


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Please know that once your GF establishes boundaries it will get worse before it gets better. Be prepared, MIL will fight tooth and nails for the control. Your GF will need your support at that time more thn ever. But, it becomes easier once your GF learns to put boundaries up.


Yes, absolutely. There will be times when your GF will waver, and there will be many times when you feel she has taken 3 steps forward and then 2 steps back. Emotions run very high around this kind of issue, I'm afraid.

Even now, 27 years after getting out from under my parents' roof, the only way I can deal with things is to have my walls and keep them there. I see my mother regularly (in short doses) which works well, but I am not at all close to her. I have long since learned never to tell her about anything that matters deeply to me, because that is her avenue back in. My husband knows that he is not to tell my mother anything whatsoever about our life unless I have already brought up the subject so he knows it is safe to do so.

I was thinking about this today, funnily enough, because today my mother is seeing a mutual friend. This friend is her age, but started out as my friend. I saw her as a bit of a mother figure. Then she befriended my mother and now I have to all intents and purposes lost my friend. This is entirely down to me; I am not prepared to discuss things in my life that I don't want getting back to my mother. It's easy enough not discussing my life with my mother since she is by and large only interested in what she has to say, so I can just smile and nod. But this friend is very interested in what is going on in my life so it makes it very awkward to spend time with her.

I tell this story to give the OP some insight into how all-pervasive these mother problems can be, and how issues might spring up where you least expect them. It's not going to be an easy ride.

As for the daughter turning into her mother; yes, I do sometimes see signs of that in myself. It's one of the reasons I chose not to have children. I am very careful to curb any such tendencies when I see them come out. Luckily I have also inherited a lot of my father's traits; otherwise I think my husband would have run a mile.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

My MIL is like this. To the point where her and fil tried to convince DH he had to choose..them or me.

They got worse after DH put his foot down on their controlling manipulating ways. 

I haven't seen or directly spoken to them in so long I can't remember the last time. DH deals with them on his own now. He actually stopped speaking to his father and now just keeps in contact with his mother. 

Things will settle down for you hopefully. Change and having their daughter assert her boundaries with your MIL will make your lives hell for a while. Then MIL will realize,with any luck, that she needs to straighten up or be on a limited basis relationship with her daughter.


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## Tmj4477 (May 3, 2014)

Nip it in the bud now because it will only get worse! The relationship with your MIL is your business because YOU have to deal with the emotional aftermath which is not fair to either of you. Speaking from experience if you don't set guidelines she'll be running your household not you


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## Minncouple (Sep 9, 2009)

OK bro, I am in the same situation for almost 19 years. A few advices, and a few mistakes I have made.

* You wife should be the one to speak to her mother if at all possible. My issue is my wife is brain washed by her mother. She knwos how bad she is, complians about her, yet enables the behavior to continue.

* Speak to you wife, lay down the rules. Stick to them, show reprecussions if they are not stuck to. I made the mistake of not nippoing in the bud hard enough or quick enough. Difficult MIL's require a very non vaque plan. Blunt, to the point, NO gray areas.

* Speak only to the MIL when needed, and politly, never accept her **** and put her on her heals if she pulls it with you.

* I have even been told I am not good enough for her daughter. Unreal, my wife doesnt work, plays tennis hours a day, drives a 100k car, we have a maid, landscaper, pool guy, window gal, bug/pest guy. She has total access to buy what she wants, and never be questioned. That must be such a horrible way to live, no?

* My biggest mistake is not dealing with this firmly, quickly, and holding my ground. ALOT of anger, resentment, hatered could have been avoided. 

Good luck with this, it is not an easy thing. I am always ready to rip into my MIL at the very chance she over steps my boundry now. I have no remorse for the reprocussions Let the chips fall where they may.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

You should discuss this with your wife but you should NOT ASSUME that you will be able to train or change your mother-in-law. If you are fine with things, your wife is, then marry the one you love.


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## Sunburn (Jul 9, 2012)

Wrong_Rook said:


> Hello forum
> 
> My issue is this: *After my marriage begins, how should I engage my future mother-in-law?*


Don't engage and if you can, move away, so far away that driving would be impractical. You are not going to change her and she will continue to try and manipulate your wife at your expense. If you think things are going to be difficult with your MIL after you are married just wait until she has grandchildren. Believe me I know all about this, ever watch Everybody Loves Raymond? My X-MIL was Marie Romano except 10 X more devious and manipulative.


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