# Help me make sense of it…



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Maybe I’m just being a bit impatient, but things just don’t feel better since my wife moved home two months ago. Seems like a lot is going on, so its kind of hard for me to process. 

I’m finding that we are falling back into our old familiar roles – her on the computer, me with the kids. Her in the bedroom – me roaming the rest of the house.

I see two big issues.

First is that we aren’t having sex. Overall, my sex drive feels low. Had my Testosterone tested and it seems fine. Had a sleep study done – they’ve recommended Oxygen at night, but I’m waiting to talk to the doctor to get a better understanding of why my body’s oxygen levels may be low while I’m sleeping.

I also feel turned off in general by my wife. Hard to explain and hard to admit. Almost seems like after effects of her emotional affairs. I am seeing her increased sex drive as a bad thing. When she first moved home I requested that she back off a bit – which I feel like she’s now using as an excuse for not initiating.

And its hard to admit this, but physically, she has let herself go somewhat. It is in part due to the fibro. But its also other things as well. And in relation to the fibro – I still don’t feel like she’s taking a lot of the advice that she’s been given regarding moderate exercise and diet modifications.

The other big issue is the way that work is divided at home. My wife has been much more active since moving home. But she seems to focus on what I call “special projects.” She’s steam cleaned the carpets, gone through the file cabinet, organized the girls’ rooms and closets, and purged quite a bit of “junk.” The problem is that when I come home, she’s generally tired and in bed, so I’ve continued doing a lot of the day-to-day have to do stuff – dinner, dishes, walk the dog, etc – that I was doing while we were separated. So – while she’s doing more and the house is looking better – I don’t feel like I’m getting any relief.

I really don’t feel like I have a finger on it. Maybe I need to be more patient. Things just feel “off.”


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The projects likely give her a sense of "completion" which repetitive housework does not. 

That said I think it is fair to ask her if she can do "list of housework" each day and if she has the energy/desire AFTER that to do projects. 

Personally I would gently tell her that I was feeling "fatigue" and need more help. That is not weakness - just honesty. 

As for the sexual dynamic - I think it is culturally ingrained in us such that a "woman" getting rejected is WAY more painful than a man getting turned down all other things being equal. 

I am uber careful about rejecting my W. I accidentally did so due to a miscommunication many months ago. Spent the next 10 minutes apologizing. At one point I did the "mock" down on both knees request for forgiveness. 



nice777guy said:


> Maybe I’m just being a bit impatient, but things just don’t feel better since my wife moved home two months ago. Seems like a lot is going on, so its kind of hard for me to process.
> 
> I’m finding that we are falling back into our old familiar roles – her on the computer, me with the kids. Her in the bedroom – me roaming the rest of the house.
> 
> ...


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## coops (Jan 24, 2011)

I'm sure if you've read my posts, you know I'm going to say something blunt.... 

Men are generally turned on by a visually attractive woman. Visual attraction is a must for a male. In a long term relationship, other factors such as her behavior come into play but from a raw attraction point of view how she looks is so damn important. 

Here is your situation:

1) Shes let herself go (low physical attraction is a massive issue)
2) She broke the trust in the relationship and gave herself emotionally to another man (no loyalty)
3) I'm assuming with the EA's that she rejected you sexually for a long time which can be very damaging emotionally. (No submission) 

So basically, she is scoring very very low on what I would consider the most important 3 characteristics for male sex drive in a relationship. Visual attraction is pretty much all that is needed when you're not in a relationship. Anyhow, I'm surprised you're even getting tested for testosterone issues.

I doubt a blunt approach would work well with you telling your wife to get back in shape and start taking care of herself better. So unless you want to send her to the forums and I'll tell her straight up you might want to find some subtle ways to approach this lol.

Perhaps start working out together? Both me and my wife did this and we lost a considerable amount of weight together. I started following the primal blueprint (Mark's Daily Apple), was getting into great shape and my wife decided to follow along with me.

Perhaps you could trade duties and be the one that does all the grocery shopping and cooking? Then you could change to the healthier foods/portion sizes for your family without being so "overt" about it.


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Housework doesn't have to perfectly done, can both of you accept it's a bit messy and dirty?
So you can find more time to enjoy romance with her.
Low sex drive is a big topic. 
Finding back some butterflies in the stomach with your wife or simply support her being an audience watching or helping her with musterbation. It's better than nothing when you show you care about her sexual needs.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

coops - pretty close - except that her drive continued to be high with me while she was seeking attention on the internet/having multiple EAs.

I've been exercising more, but I'm not real sure how to get her involved as she has Fibro and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and is limited in what she can do.

I already do the grocery shopping (kind of enjoy it, and like having the control over what we buy and eat), and I do need to start buying healthier foods. My diet at home isn't bad, but I still buy too much junk that I know my wife and kids like.

MEM - guess I hadn't thought of my asking her to back off as rejection, but that's probably how she sees it. Then this fatigue/lower sex drive thing on my end isn't helping either.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I don't mean to sound like a smart-ass, I sincerely mean this question; what did you expect?

I presumed that most of this stuff about roles, responsibilities, and capabilities was discussed before she moved back?

This piece is purely my opinion. My opinion colored by my own circumstances and experiences, some of which had paralleled yours for a time.

You aren't ever going to have your 'old' wife back. You don't ever get to go back to pre-fibro, pre-emotional affairs.

I don't think you ever get a break. Not ever. I think she expects that she will consistently be given a break, or ... she will demand them.

I think she wanted security back, far more than she wanted you back.

I think part of you wanted the same, security, with the presumption of working towards something ... better.

Actually, I won't speak for you. I will speak for myself. The sentence above applied to me. I wanted security for my family, particularly my children. The most direct path to that was to repair the marriage.

What I finally came to realize, is that we both wanted the same thing ... but it became apparent that we simply COULD NOT get there together.

She was never going to choose to be the woman that I wanted, and desired a partnership with.

Beyond that, everything that I have experienced, behaviors I saw from my ex that I never would have thought her capable of, has made me far more wary when it comes to the nature of people.

You hit the reset button on the arrangement whereby she moved out and you remain in the house with the kids. If this goes south ... I don't think she'll let that happen again.

If you believe that she is truly invested in recovering your MARRIAGE, rather than her own security and comfort, then I say stay in there swinging.

If she is putting in a half-assed effort, only to point at you and indicate that you are doing the same ... then you guys are doing the same ... you're treading water.

As for your sex drive ... well stress impacts just about everything that we do.

I would think it fair for you to outline to her what she can do to help you in this arena.


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

My husband has a lower sexual drive due to lower testosterone and overweight.
I appreciated when he showed he cared about my sexual needs and willing to support to help me get off or simply watched me musterbate. No intercourse.
But I felt close and happy knowing he was there with me when I had my orgasms.
Love is easy to give. It doesn't cost you nothing but already can make your wife happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I don't think it's just a matter of rejecting her, though that's a valid point.

I think it's about what you're hoping to accomplish in the end, and what you may have to do to get there.
If you're unhappy with the lack of sex, and she does initiate, telling her to back off isn't going to help you get out of this rut.
You're right, she will stop initiating, but if you're hoping to rekindle what was lost, you may need to be receptive to her attempts.
ALSO...if you push yourself to be or pretend to be attracted to her, it may be more motivating for her to get in better shape.

The message "you're fat so I don't want to touch you" may not push her to get fit.
But the message "you look and feel good to me now, and will be even more when you're healthy and caring for yourself" may be more motivating.
If you don't touch her at all, she sees no reason or incentive to bother.
But if you let her know you want to touch her, she may work on giving you something better to touch.

I could be dead wrong, but just another way to think about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Deejo said:


> I don't mean to sound like a smart-ass, I sincerely mean this question; what did you expect?
> 
> I presumed that most of this stuff about roles, responsibilities, and capabilities was discussed before she moved back?
> 
> ...


I assumed that if the EA's stopped, we would be able to work through anything.

Right now I would have to say that neither of us seem real motivated to improve our marriage.

I'm working on myself. She's working on the house. But we really don't seem to be on the same page.

I also thought that fixing what she said was her biggest problem - wanting to feel attractive - would be easy. But for ?some reason? I don't quite understand - physical or emotional - her or me - or all of the above - I don't feel the attraction right now. Didn't see that one coming.

I knew we would have to deal with the work imbalance - or her long term plans (or lack of) to deal with her health issues - but I thought some of this other stuff would just fall back into place.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

Im going to offer a different perspective for you, especially since you say her drive is high... not surprising during her EA's they continued to be high as she was electrically charged by them and using them to channel to you. 

Not all women return to their man bc of security! Sex is the big motivator for a high drive woman (ok, tongues back in mouths please). So when you backed off, ouch, especially if she came back for that (and that is not a bad thing if she did... take it as a compliment).

You can only work on improving yourself and replace your low desire for her with positives that will help you have sex with her. She was having EA's for a reason and instead of focusing on her fibro or her image to lose weight, focus on parts of her you do like, or get to a place of wanting to have sex. Instead of focusing on what she is not doing around the house, be glad that she does anything! In the long run, it doesnt matter. It will get done and its ok if it doesnt for a while... the cleaning that is. That is your issue to work on, letting go of rigid standards to be more content with your homelife and the wife who came back to you.

Good luck!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

credamdóchasgra said:


> If you're unhappy with the lack of sex, and she does initiate, telling her to back off isn't going to help you get out of this rut.
> You're right, she will stop initiating, but if you're hoping to rekindle what was lost, you may need to be receptive to her attempts.
> ALSO...if you push yourself to be or pretend to be attracted to her, it may be more motivating for her to get in better shape.
> 
> ...


Part of the problem is that I actually feel OK with the lack of sex right now. My sex drive is down and I'm tired - despite the fact that I'm exercising more and have lost 15lbs in the last 3 months. Still waiting to talk to the sleep study doctor to get more info on my Oxygen dropping while I slept - hoping that helps explain some things.

And I haven't tried to discuss the fact that I don't feel attracted to her - but I know she senses it.


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

I wasn't attracted to my husband but I didn't give up having intimacy with him.
He was simply as disrespectful and ignorant to my sexual needs, pretty much like you did and how you felt. Yeah, I have a low sex drive. So what? I'm just not feeling any desire. 
Same attitude.
So how can you complain about your wife turned to the OM for validations?
This is something i'd love to learn about.
The difference between you and my husband is at least he knows he wasn't taking care of my needs, so he didn't complain.
He also tried to get healthy and lost weights, not as much as you achieved but he tried to improve himself being a better husband for me even when he's suffering low testosterone. He would come and show his respecting my sexual needs so I don't have to turn to someone else.
Not much fun for him, I'm sure but I appreciated his willingness to make marriage work which has encouraged me to get rid of the OM.
After couples of months, all the hard work paid off.
We started working on our marriage from Oct. 2010 we had zero sex that month. Then once a month, then twice... Suddenly there's a week jumped up to 4 times a week.
Now we date and enjoy intimacy at least once a week.
Who cares about the OM? He has become history and piece of junk.
Now I only love my husband. We fall back in love as if we just met.
Falling back in love with your wife is possible and workable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

MsLonely said:


> I wasn't attracted to my husband but I didn't give up having intimacy with him.
> He was simply as disrespectful and ignorant to my sexual needs, pretty much like you did and how you felt. Yeah, I have a low sex drive. So what? I'm just not feeling any desire.
> Same attitude.
> So how can you complain about your wife turned to the OM for validations?
> ...


In my case, the sex issue has become worse since the OM is gone. My drive was "normal" before I knew what was going on with the EAs and such. Even while that was going on, we continued to have good sex - but with less frequency.

Like I said - I don't know if its:
- my health (sleep issues/fatigue)
- normal decreases due to my age (approaching 40)
- my emotional reaction to having been cheated on (emotionally)
- her lack of attention to and care for herself
- something else or all of the above

Or maybe I just need to be more patient. All of us (kids, wife and myself) have all had various colds and bouts of the flu during the last couple of months. Just moving her back in was a stressful pain in the rear. We haven't been to marriage therapy for almost 2 months since we've been busy with other things.

??????????????????????
:scratchhead:


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Thanks for listing out your reasons.
As for her affair, it could be really bugging you. Since you said your T test is normal, it sounded more emotional issue than physical especially when you feel ok not to have intimacy with her. 
Another possibility could be you have fallen out of love with her, that might explain why you don't find her attractive.
She should notice this problem, and do something. At least make herself appear in a more attractive, gentle and sexy to arouse your interests and provides good stimulation...
If she just waits to see what happens next, nothing would happen I guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

NG,
You know I adore you, right? I am going to get slammed for saying this (again) but to me, it sounds like you minimize your wife's illness. This isn't something she can just snap out of. It's pretty awful and exhausting. I also think she is depressed. Now add to that her sensing that you aren't attracted to her, what woman in their right mind would want sex given those circumstances? Your almost suggestion that she isn't as ill as she thinks she is, your feeling like she doesn't take the initiative and you not finding her attractive. I would be resentful as all get out if my husband felt like that about me. 
You have every right to be resentful of her, too! I get that. I do think that this is what Deejo calls the "death spiral". Perhaps he can elaborate a bit more about what it is and how to get out of it.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

In regards to attraction:
Have you ever said something along the lines of, "There is this woman at work that looks really good for her age. I don't know what she does but it is working." The sentence is benign enough but clearly puts out there that you notice the shapes and looks of women (If this is the case of course because you don't want to make something up so if it isn't the case find something else to draw from)

You sharing small observations like that with her might initially prompt anger but it will also stir jealousy and a desire to have you feel the same way about her which will hopefully lead to her taking steps to care for herself.

I think the two of you need to spend more time connecting with one another outside of the house/work/kids circle. You may not be into it and you may not want to, but I think doing so will help reconnect the two of you and see each other as an individual rather than a chick and guy that play certain roles, battle certain diseases/insecurities and don't communicate.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

To be clear, my understanding is that NG's wife DOES want sex. It is NG that asked her to back off as a result of his own fatigue, and questioning her commitment to changing their dynamic and recovering the marriage.

The issue with my ex was initiative. She simply didn't take it. Not ever. She feigned interest in taking positive steps ... but never actually took them. She didn't do what she said she would do. 

And guess what? THAT is unattractive.

Fibro aside, if the doctors are telling her that moderate exercise will benefit her condition and sense of well-being, and she were to just blow it off ... I couldn't take seriously that she wants to actually feel better.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Brennan said:


> NG,
> You know I adore you, right? I am going to get slammed for saying this (again) but to me, it sounds like you minimize your wife's illness. This isn't something she can just snap out of. It's pretty awful and exhausting. I also think she is depressed. Now add to that her sensing that you aren't attracted to her, what woman in their right mind would want sex given those circumstances? Your almost suggestion that she isn't as ill as she thinks she is, your feeling like she doesn't take the initiative and you not finding her attractive. I would be resentful as all get out if my husband felt like that about me.
> You have every right to be resentful of her, too! I get that. I do think that this is what Deejo calls the "death spiral". Perhaps he can elaborate a bit more about what it is and how to get out of it.


Like I keep saying - I don't feel like I've got a full grasp of this myself.

Am I minimizing? Maybe. The way I always phrase it is that it seems like when she's excited about something, she finds the energy and seems to do just fine. But of course she's never excited about emptying the dishwasher.

My not finding her attractive didn't start until after she moved home. I've always been wildly attracted to her - until recently. It almost feels like I blame the new "highly sexual" Mrs. NG for all of the crap that's gone on over the last 1.5 years.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Trenton said:


> In regards to attraction:
> Have you ever said something along the lines of, "There is this woman at work that looks really good for her age. I don't know what she does but it is working." The sentence is benign enough but clearly puts out there that you notice the shapes and looks of women (If this is the case of course because you don't want to make something up so if it isn't the case find something else to draw from)
> 
> You sharing small observations like that with her might initially prompt anger but it will also stir jealousy and a desire to have you feel the same way about her which will hopefully lead to her taking steps to care for herself.
> ...


The first part sounds like you are suggesting I start fitness testing her! Not my style...

And yes - we do need to do more things together. Just seems like we aren't on the same page. Its hard to get her to do something simple like go to lunch or dinner or a movie. But if a few people are going out (not just the two of us), she'll be up for staying out until the bar closes and drinking too much.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Deejo said:


> To be clear, my understanding is that NG's wife DOES want sex. It is NG that asked her to back off as a result of his own fatigue, and questioning her commitment to changing their dynamic and recovering the marriage.
> 
> Fibro aside, if the doctors are telling her that moderate exercise will benefit her condition and sense of well-being, and she were to just blow it off ... I couldn't take seriously that she wants to actually feel better.


yep


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Deejo,

I agree with you about diet modification. She isn't doing that, hence the reason I think she suffers from depression as well.
Diet and excercise helps tremendously with fibro. However with the additional problem of chronic fatigue, literally getting out of bed is daunting, so you can bet that hitting the gym sounds like climbing Everest.
Honestly, she really really hurt him so I am not terribly sympathetic towards her but I do get a niggling feeling that NG thinks her symptoms aren't that big of a deal/exaggerated. She must sense/feel this. Add in his lack of sexual desire for her and yikes.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Just to emphasize - the lack of "desire" has happened recently - within the last month or two. And its accompanied by some fatigue - and I'm talking to my doctor about possible causes.

The Fibro has been here for more than 2 years.

My loss in desire is not a direct result of the Fibro.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Speaking as the spouse of someone with CFS, it is a weird disease in that some days he seems to be pretty okay--others it wears him out to lift his arms! Plus, you can never tell which day you'll wake up to--with the exception that if there is some big activity today, the next 3 days or so will be bad. 

And speaking as the spouse of someone with CFS, it really is hard to NOT be resentful. I get it, that it is a real disease and I even see him suffering low-grade fevers and feeling "crummy" but at 48yo I'm getting tired myself and it feels like "Well do *I* ever get to feel achy or tired? Do I have someone who covers the load for me?" Plus, I work and have to do housework while he does "some" housework. 

The big difference, I think, is that my Dear Hubby realizes and recognizes that it's somewhat lopsided my way and appreciates that I give him the freedom to have "slower days". I even think he appreciates that I *DON'T* let him get lax and blame lack of motivation on his disease! LOL  It makes a HUGE difference when the one who is ill actually shares what's going on with them to help you understand, and let's you share what's going on with you and they're understanding even if it is kind of unlovely.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Just to emphasize - the lack of "desire" has happened recently - within the last month or two. And its accompanied by some fatigue - and I'm talking to my doctor about possible causes.
> 
> The Fibro has been here for more than 2 years.
> 
> My loss in desire is not a direct result of the Fibro.


You know, NG, I realize you are not "old" by any stretch of the imagination but if I remember correctly, late 30's maybe right ? I'm 48yo and I know one of the hardest things for us to deal with -- Dear Hubby and I -- has just been the changes that happen as you age. Without being utterly revealing, one example is that as a young man, "wood" was often and easy (often even without though), and as he hit about 40 it was still there...seemed fine to me...but he could tell the difference and it wasn't the same. So he thought I noticed it was less often or less woody or whatever the deal was (I'm not sure--I'm not in his body)...yet on my end what I could observe seemed like "When we're in the mood and want to, all systems are go!" So there he was feeling bad UNTIL HE SAID SOMETHING out loud. 

I'm not minimizing your issues here--just wondering if some level of it isn't the natural aging process?


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

If my wife had lung cancer or emphysema and kept smoking, I would consider leaving her.

If she had a liver disease and kept drinking, it would be hard to give her any slack.

If she was depressed and stopped taking meds - same idea.

Fibro - avoid dairy and get moderate (15 minutes) exercise 3 to 5 times per week. Why should this be any different than any other doctor's orders that accompany any other life altering illness?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Like I keep saying - I don't feel like I've got a full grasp of this myself.
> 
> Am I minimizing? Maybe. The way I always phrase it is that it seems like when she's excited about something, she finds the energy and seems to do just fine. But of course she's never excited about emptying the dishwasher.
> 
> My not finding her attractive didn't start until after she moved home. I've always been wildly attracted to her - until recently. It almost feels like I blame the new "highly sexual" Mrs. NG for all of the crap that's gone on over the last 1.5 years.


I am not suggesting that her illness is causing you to lack desire. I actually think what you wrote hit the nail on the head. Resentment. She managed to muster the strength to do all kinds of things that were exciting but not things that weren't. Add in that now she is highly sexual from getting her "charge" elsewhere.......RESENTMENT on your behalf. I think resentment is causing you to lack desire. Perhaps this is something you could explore?


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Affaircare said:


> You know, NG, I realize you are not "old" by any stretch of the imagination but if I remember correctly, late 30's maybe right ? I'm 48yo and I know one of the hardest things for us to deal with -- Dear Hubby and I -- has just been the changes that happen as you age. Without being utterly revealing, one example is that as a young man, "wood" was often and easy (often even without though), and as he hit about 40 it was still there...seemed fine to me...but he could tell the difference and it wasn't the same. So he thought I noticed it was less often or less woody or whatever the deal was (I'm not sure--I'm not in his body)...yet on my end what I could observe seemed like "When we're in the mood and want to, all systems are go!" So there he was feeling bad UNTIL HE SAID SOMETHING out loud.
> 
> I'm not minimizing your issues here--just wondering if some level of it isn't the natural aging process?


Understood - and its on my list of possibilities.

Just seems like something changed overnight - or over just a couple of months.

The equipment still functions - but it seems to be more than that.

I've mentioned all of this to my doctor and he suggested we start with the sleep study, as fatigue can affect your libido.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Brennan said:


> I am not suggesting that her illness is causing you to lack desire. I actually think what you wrote hit the nail on the head. Resentment. She managed to muster the strength to do all kinds of things that were exciting but not things that weren't. Add in that now she is highly sexual from getting her "charge" elsewhere.......RESENTMENT on your behalf. I think resentment is causing you to lack desire. Perhaps this is something you could explore?


Yes. So once again - the lung cancer patient who can no longer work, still smokes, and now plays golf 3 times a week.

The liver damaged spouse who still drinks - while out with the guys - at the strip clubs once a week.

The wife with Fibro who doesn't work, doesn't help around the house, and spends all her time on the computer chatting with other guys while YOU do all of the housework. YOU might be willing to chat, but her lack of energy leaves you no time or energy to be playful or even AVAILABLE. 

Meanwhile, Bubba, who just got laid off, has no wife and only sees his kids once a month due to court order, has all the time in the world to chat and flirt.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I thought it was a way to motivate with honesty without using the kind of honesty that would hurt her personally.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

nice777guy said:


> If my wife had lung cancer or emphysema and kept smoking, I would consider leaving her.
> 
> If she had a liver disease and kept drinking, it would be hard to give her any slack.
> 
> ...


Wow, this shows your true colors or your true feelings about your wife. Part of growing up in a marriage is realizing we may not like what our spouse chooses to do or not do but that it is their choice. We have to deal with our own responses to how we feel about their choices. So, to use your example...

If my spouse had lung cancer and continued to smoke... I may not like it or disagree with totally but that would be their choice, its their body. For better or worse. The fact that you would choose to leave a spouse who chose that course shows either you are way more selfish than you think or that its specific to your wife and you really have little empathy for her. 

So, uncomfortable situations or those you disagree with make you want to reject that person? Or is it that you would not be tolerant of it if it were the woman who is your wife right now bc you simply dont have feelings for her? Try to narrow in why you would so easily reject someone for their choice, rather than just be disappointed with their choice and love them anyway. Im reading in your posts a disdain, and Im trying to figure out if you are simply not that into your wife or if you are simply intolerant of others in general who disappoint you.


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## coops (Jan 24, 2011)

Unconditional love and acceptance in a relationship is fantasy talk. There is no such thing. 

Both partners have needs, those needs have to be met. If they aren't, they will be less loving and accepting of your behaviors. Some people have higher need levels than others. 

Generally speaking, the higher your perceived value, the less you will tolerate from another person. For example Brad Pitt will expect a lot more and be less tolerant of poor behavior than say 275lb socially awkward chump making minimum wage.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

toolate said:


> Wow, this shows your true colors or your true feelings about your wife. Part of growing up in a marriage is realizing we may not like what our spouse chooses to do or not do but that it is their choice. We have to deal with our own responses to how we feel about their choices. So, to use your example...
> 
> If my spouse had lung cancer and continued to smoke... I may not like it or disagree with totally but that would be their choice, its their body. For better or worse. The fact that you would choose to leave a spouse who chose that course shows either you are way more selfish than you think or that its specific to your wife and you really have little empathy for her.
> 
> So, uncomfortable situations or those you disagree with make you want to reject that person? Or is it that you would not be tolerant of it if it were the woman who is your wife right now bc you simply dont have feelings for her? Try to narrow in why you would so easily reject someone for their choice, rather than just be disappointed with their choice and love them anyway. Im reading in your posts a disdain, and Im trying to figure out if you are simply not that into your wife or if you are simply intolerant of others in general who disappoint you.


I didn't feel resentful or intolerant of the Fibro at first.

I think I had some fairly normal / natural resentment of feeling like my load had gotten a lot heavier.

But the *real* resentment didn't come until the EAs. While I was doing more of the laundry, cooking dinner, and helping the kids with homework, my wife was in bed, chatting or texting other men. That eventually led to her going out and meeting a couple of them while lying about where she was going and who with.

I'm not really sure that I would leave a smoker who had lung cancer. I never considered leaving my wife until she started cheating (emotionally). And even then - initially - it was her that wanted to separate.

I do feel like a person in her situation - with a 'manageable' condition - who isn't working - who has two young kids - who has a loving/supportive husband who puts little to no pressure on her to do things around the house - I do feel like she should be trying harder to improve her situation.

Let me add to this that she's had this now for nearly 3 years. I would really think that at some point you'd get tired of feeling bad all of the time and eventually at least TRY some of what the doctor is suggesting - just for yourself.

And in those 3 years, the only thing that has really given her any real energy, was the excitement she got from sneaking around and getting attention from other men.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

toolate said:


> Wow, this shows your true colors or your true feelings about your wife. Part of growing up in a marriage is realizing we may not like what our spouse chooses to do or not do but that it is their choice. We have to deal with our own responses to how we feel about their choices. So, to use your example...
> 
> If my spouse had lung cancer and continued to smoke... I may not like it or disagree with totally but that would be their choice, its their body. For better or worse. The fact that you would choose to leave a spouse who chose that course shows either you are way more selfish than you think or that its specific to your wife and you really have little empathy for her.
> 
> So, uncomfortable situations or those you disagree with make you want to reject that person? Or is it that you would not be tolerant of it if it were the woman who is your wife right now bc you simply dont have feelings for her? Try to narrow in why you would so easily reject someone for their choice, rather than just be disappointed with their choice and love them anyway. Im reading in your posts a disdain, and Im trying to figure out if you are simply not that into your wife or if you are simply intolerant of others in general who disappoint you.


I don't think these are his true colors at all. I think he loves her but is very disappointed/resentful over her behavior. While her illness is awful, it didn't prevent her from cheating and mustering up the energy to sneak around/out. I think his resentment comes from 1) her affair(s) 2) her not contributing despite her in demand degree 3) her picking and choosing when her illness renders her unable to help out. 
What I was trying to point out in my earlier post was that he is kind making himself believe her illness isn't so bad and therefore resents that she doesn't do anything. Maybe she is exaggerating her symptoms, who knows. Fibro is terrible so I will cut her some slack on that but let's not forget she was able to do all kinds of hurtful things to NG with her illness so I totally understand his anger/hurt/resentment.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

Nice Guy: I think I missed how long you and Mrs. NG were apart before she moved by in. Just by reading you posts you seemed to have lost the attraction the minute you got her back You are tired and disgusted (I know not your words) with her once she rejoined the family. I might be wrong, but it sounds like the pursuit was more important than actually getting her back?!?

In regard to the fibro, I'm with Brennan!! I have MS and I must admit somedays I just don't want to get out of bed Nevertheless exercise. And I'm sure she is depressed. Also like Brennan I don't quite feel much sympathy for her for abandoning you and the kids for an EA. Not fair to you to add that extra stress to your life. Although you say the Fibro has been in the mix for 2 years, reintroducing it after the EA and moving back in, probably has had an effect on you.

Good luck and YES be patient and more importantly try to go back to counseling or at least communicate more openly with Mrs. NG (maybe not about the weight because speaking from experience she knows what she looks like and you bringing it up will only make her either not care or even worse want to eat more!!!!...Trust me don't mention it)


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Yes. So once again - the lung cancer patient who can no longer work, still smokes, and now plays golf 3 times a week.
> 
> The liver damaged spouse who still drinks - while out with the guys - at the strip clubs once a week.
> 
> ...


WOW!!! NG I think you answered your own question right there!!! You are resentful AND RIGHTFULLY so!!! If you really want to stay together you have to make her focus on your relationship, not just sex, but trying to make YOU happy. You seem to want to be more connected but she is resisting. Ask her WHY!!!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Just to emphasize for those who don't know my story, Bubba and Bobby and Jimmy and Todd all seem to be gone.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Just to emphasize for those who don't know my story, Bubba and Bobby and Jimmy and Todd all seem to be gone.


You say "seem" to be gone?!?! Are you not sure? What is she doing on the computer still? Not to stir the pot but I'm just confussed since you said in the original post that she is still texting and separating herself from you? :scratchhead:


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

2sick said:


> You say "seem" to be gone?!?! Are you not sure? What is she doing on the computer still? Not to stir the pot but I'm just confussed since you said in the original post that she is still texting and separating herself from you? :scratchhead:


She still spends a lot of time on Facebook. She also does a lot of "window" shopping. She also likes to play online games (Webkinz!).

I've seen no sign of her talking to any of the old, or any new, men other than an occaisional post on a friend's facebook page (which I can see).

I guess I say "seems" because after a year of being lied to, the trust just isn't totally there yet.

Some of the separation is just purely physical - she stays in bedroom a lot while I tend to be running around the house, or at work, or doing something with the kids. I guess that's where she's most comfortable.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> She still spends a lot of time on Facebook. She also does a lot of "window" shopping. She also likes to play online games (Webkinz!).
> 
> I've seen no sign of her talking to any of the old, or any new, men other than an occaisional post on a friend's facebook page (which I can see).
> 
> ...



I'm sorry to hear that, but I completely understand its soooo hard to start trusting again after you've been lied to for so long.

Yep you're probably right about the comfort of the bedroom, because that is where I too retreat to when I need a break. However, I love it when my family comes in to keep me company. ( must admit the kids more so than hubby keeps me company) Maybe try to join her a little bit in the bedroom, and just talk or play a game since she seems to be interested in those things. My hubby and I sometimes play scrabble over wifi. I'm sure there are other games too.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Maybe NG you just don’t like your wife anymore, the woman she has become or alternatively the woman she’s always been but you now “see” with different eyes. Just maybe you actually dislike your wife!

It’s hard for a committed, married man to make love to a wife he doesn’t like as it feels like he’s “using and abusing”. And just maybe you are in love with an “ideal” or “dream” that simply does not exist.

Seems to me she’s not the woman you knew, or at least she’s not the woman you thought you knew. And just maybe you will not be able to like or love the woman you know now.


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## Izabella (Dec 22, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> She still spends a lot of time on Facebook. She also does a lot of "window" shopping. She also likes to play online games (Webkinz!).
> 
> 
> Some of the separation is just purely physical - she stays in bedroom a lot while I tend to be running around the house, or at work, or doing something with the kids. I guess that's where she's most comfortable.


im not making light of her illness and i really dont understand it so please forgive me if she is unable to really do anything but stay in bed or whatever.but this is what NG said and why im writing what im about to write;


************************************************
NG wrote:
I didn't feel resentful or intolerant of the Fibro at first.

I think I had some fairly normal / natural resentment of feeling like my load had gotten a lot heavier.

But the real resentment didn't come until the EAs. While I was doing more of the laundry, cooking dinner, and helping the kids with homework, my wife was in bed, chatting or texting other men. 
**That eventually led to her going out and meeting a couple of them while lying about where she was going and who with**.
**********************************************
i think if she can get up,get dolled up,walk out the door and go were ever and do whatever it is that she did,that shows that when she does WANT to do something she will and can. i think if she can sit/lay at the computer,she should beable to walk around and put clothes in the washer/dryer,then sit and fold them,walk them in to the rooms to put them away.
i think she should beable to walk to the dish washer and unload/load it.i think she can also put chicken in the oven go lay down while it cooks for a while and get up for 15 minutes to make a side dish.there are quite a bit she should be able to do that can help and can be considered exercise for her while things that need to be done gets done.those things are not hard labor. 
i only say this cause i have a dieases that is almost like a type of Rheumatoid arthritis,in parts of my body,badly in my hands and now in my feet and legs.very painful.it also makes me very tired and weak.it could down the road cause me to lose limbs if im not careful.ive had it since i was 24,im 39 now.
there are things that have to be done,i take my time,i do them,its painful,but its a known fact that if you do nothing your body will not funcion as well and ilnesses/pain can/will worsen.
my husband who was almost killed 5 years ago in a car accident,he should not be workin,period,but he does everyday,6 days a week almost 12 hours a day sometimes, in horrible pain everyday because we cant afford to live on the disability he was offered.
my dad has a spinal, neck,leg ilness and also lupus were his body is deteriating(sp?)he is bed alot,but does get up to do things he knows he has to do and he moones in pain while doing it.i just see so many people in pain or sick with horrible illnesses that still get up and do what needs to be done.i feel if she is a sahm,she should beable to do the things at home that need to be done,she may have to do them little at a time,rest in between,maybe do three things today,and three the next.
i just think that NG wife should and can do more then she is doing.if im wrong,im sorry.
with everthing that has went on i understand his resentment and feeling used.i think his wife should be doing more to lift his load at home,she stays at home all day,not many people have that.she will probly go back to the same way it was before if he doesnt speak up for her to do her part and also work on meeting his needs,and he should work on metting hers.

please forgive me if im wrong on all this.this is just what i see in reading this post.


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## Izabella (Dec 22, 2010)

Brennan said:


> I don't think these are his true colors at all. I think he loves her but is very disappointed/resentful over her behavior. While her illness is awful, it didn't prevent her from cheating and mustering up the energy to sneak around/out. I think his resentment comes from 1) her affair(s) 2) her not contributing despite her in demand degree
> 
> **3) her picking and choosing when her illness renders her unable to help out.***
> 
> ...


:iagree:
btw,im not judging anything by her having an affair, i hope it works it out and the family saved with a wonderful marriage.
im just writing my thoughts on what she did physically(i dont mean sexual,i mean doing things,such as the energy she had when she wanted to go and do what she wanted)
i think she can do way more then she is letting on,its probly why NG is so tired.
NG,i think you should talk to her about helping to lighten your load and in what ways.i think with her doing what will make you happy and pulling her weight,you will see things differently,and it will be easier to see the wife you love as attractive as did not long ago.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Izabella,

Not sure why you are apologizing. I don't think you are too far off of the mark.

She has been doing a bit more around the house - its just not the day-to-day stuff.

I guess its fair for me to admit that sometimes I get too wrapped up on the day-to-day stuff. Can be hard for me to get started on and complete bigger projects when I'm concerned with the normal, daily "to-dos."

And Bob - I have considered what you are saying as well. I think there is at least some truth there.

This thread kind of shows my dilemma. Its like each of you represents one of the voices or trains of thought in my head. Just about everything that's been written here has gone through my head recently.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

NG, Resentment is “Strong anger and dislike” for another person caused by offences against you.

So if you still love your wife, you’ll have love for her as well as anger and dislike inside of you. That is you will have “mixed emotions” and at any time one or the other will be dominant in your thoughts.

If you have lost “respect” for your wife, which it sounds to me like you have, then that’s in your pot of emotions as well.

The major problem with resentment, as I see it, is that it blocks out both love and creativity while it’s there. The only “antidote” for resentment that I know of is “forgiveness”. If you are unable to forgive your wife, then you will always resent her. That is you will always have strong anger and dislike for her.

Bob


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

nice777guy said:


> I didn't feel resentful or intolerant of the Fibro at first.
> 
> I think I had some fairly normal / natural resentment of feeling like my load had gotten a lot heavier.
> 
> ...


I am not trying to put you down or anything, I hope its not being taken that way. I simply dont see in your other posts and in this one that you really WANT to be with your wife, but are trying to make it work regardless of that... denying that. It cant work that way. I have followed you for a long time now and you complain about all that you do around the house for your wife while she sits around. I believe several of us mentioned to you before that of course she is going to do that bc you are taking care of those things, she has it her way bc you allow it. You feel its her job to get up more and od those things, but you cant make someone do something. If you are irritated and tired doing all those things, affecting your health now, then dont do them. Let things pile up. The world seriously will not end if you dont do them. It may be uncomfortable and messy, but to create change you have to enact change yourself... not plead for someone else to do more who isnt going to.

I used to get upset about my husband doing my jobs around the house bc he couldnt wait for me to get to them (Im actually not in the house that much for my kids commuting and stuff being in another state). I wanted to be the homemaker and run the household, but he doesnt like it that way even though he used to complain about my lack of involvement. My therapist helped me see that Im simply not there enough and its his issue. If he wants to do all that, then let him and I cant feel guilty.

I can finish later, right now I have to make brownies with my daughter. Ill get back to you when she is in school.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

AFEH said:


> NG, Resentment is “Strong anger and dislike” for another person caused by offences against you.
> 
> So if you still love your wife, you’ll have love for her as well as anger and dislike inside of you. That is you will have “mixed emotions” and at any time one or the other will be dominant in your thoughts.
> 
> ...


I think we are on the same page as to what we see going on. My kids are in school now so I have a little time to respond again. To expand on the resentment and the lack of interest you seem to have as highlighted by your original post stating you just dont think its better. It appears to have returned to something similar to what it was before you separated... she may resent the fatc that you are running around doing the day to day things that are tiring you out bc that cuts further into any time that you could spend with her. bc she may feel lonely, or alone she turns to the internet for companionship and understanding. You turn to the housework and resentment instead of her, and with each passing day your resentment grows. You cant change her, you can only change yourself and how you choose to look at things and her. Its so easy to get stuck in the "if she would just do this then I would be attracted to her again" rut. Its your choice to think that way and only you can choose to to look at it differntly. 

I had a roomate long ago who consistently left her cheese water (from mac and cheese) in the sink. I started out by reminding her, then getting resentful when she would say ok, and then not do it. It appeared she was doing it on purpose... I mean how difficult is it to remember to clean out a pot you use and put it away, right? Wrong. I learned a valuable lesson from that... if I wanted it clean and asked her to do that and she didnt, I had to clean it bc it was bothering me, not her. I was not her doormat, she literally just didnt see it, smell it or remember it. What was important to me was not even recognized by her. I know that is an utterly basic example, but hope it shows my point of owning what is your issue and not putting it on your wife. 

if you want her back and she came back you have to let go of the resentment. Thats where AFEH and I see eye to eye on this. It appears that you arent even happy that she is back. You haad a fantasy idea of her coming back and doing all this stuff to move forward. You have to accept her as she is and not who you want her to be. She may simply not be that person you want to her to be ever. Your choice is to accept who she is now and decide to let go of the resentment that is allowing you to give her the cold shoulder or not accept her and let her go, or not accept her and keep living like this.

The EA's she are having, might simply be just her talking with others who understand her, bc you are showing her that you are not that man. BE that man and she will come to you. 

I know, it seems unfair bc you feel like you are doing more than your fair share, but that is your choice. I wish I could give you a reference to my therapist bc she would help you deal with that... owning your own and accepting your spouses limitations as their own. It took me a year and a half to accept these things with my husband. I can understand your side bc my husband is alot like you (minus the abuse that was present here)... he would come home and scoff and growl or give a look of dislike if the coffee had not been prepared or the dishes not unloaded or the kids beds not made. It would make him punish me in his hopes of changing my behavior so that i would do those things. In the beginning I was running on no energy bc I ran around doing all those things when I would end up late to get to get the kids bc of my long commute to get them. I have come to accept that Im not present in the home enough to do those things like that. I do them when I am here and thats all I CAN do. I used to get angry when he would punish me for those things bc they were stupid in my mind... why would those things matter more than taking care of my kids or spending time together? Right and wrong. They are important to him. I used to get the female version of emasculated bc he would do those things before I had a chance to get around to them... he was doing MY job! He was also taking time away from "us time". I was so resentful. I have worked hard to let that go. If its that important to him, I have accepted letting him do that and accepted that MY fantasy of being the uber housewife is just not realistic given our circumstances. Its his need, so I let him take care of those things without resentment if I havent gotten to them first. The reason why I see this as similar to your marriage is that you seem intent on wanting her to do more day to day stuff, and being ever more resentful when it doesnt happen. If she chooses to go online instead of those things, and you want to remain married to HER, you have to let her have her choice, you cannot force her to be or do otherwise. I can bet you that she knows you are resentful and angry that she is not doing what you want... perhaps she is even rebelling bc she knows that you want her to do those things so badly that you resort to giving her the cold shoulder (withdrawing love) and now giving her guilt (complaining of your own fatigue bc of the "extra load" you are carrying) both are deteriorating trust and respect in your marriage in both directions. 

With this long winded response I hope to instill in you that you have to only be concerned with you. Own what is really about you and your needs/desires and accept that they arent in line with her right now. Let go of the fantasy you thought you would have when she came back home, its simply not there and the way you are responding is going to drive her away again, or encourage her to continue to stay online with others. If she were online I would say to her to let it roll off her shoulder that you are acting the way you are... and do what you can and learn to let it be ok that you cant do the rest.

Im not taking sides here other than that of preserving your marriage, bc I am pro staying married if you can especially when kids are involved. It requires shedding pride, or shoulds about what things should be like and accepting what you have right in front of you as it is for now. Once you both feel accepted, you may really be able to move forward with an even better marriage than you could imagine.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Toolate - thank you.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Short rant on my little thread here.

Sleep study shows no problems at all. When their office initially called they said I needed oxygen, but I don't. No apnea - normal sleeping.

Doctor talked a little about similarities between depression and fatigue. Also talked a bit about lifestyle. The need for more sleep, the effect that even 1 or 2 beers can have on your sleep quality, and making sure your bedroom / environment is conducive to sleeping.

Also continue exercising - continue losing weight.

One quick clarification regarding toolate's post - I'm not blaming my wife for my fatigue. I was doing just as much work at home - if not more while we were separated - and i didn't feel like this.

What prompted my concern with fatigue is that I've been falling asleep at work a few times each week, my wife says I'm snoring worse than ever, and I feel tired in general even though I'm exercising more and losing weight (at a healthy pace).

And I'm trying to sort through my loss in sex drive. Is it part of the fatigue issue - or am i still resentful or angry.

And to give her credit - as I already said above - my wife is doing more things around the house. She's just usually tired by the time I get home. And she's just not doing much of the normal day-to-day things.

And although I'm still kind of paranoid, I've seen no reason recently to believe she is having any in appropriate relationships. I'm pretty confident the EAs have stopped, but I'm still questioning things and looking for clues.

Hope you all have a good weekend and GO STEELERS!!!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Nail down the testosterone piece. They need to do your overall, not just your 'free'.

Also, have you changed your diet up much? If you have decreased calories, or changed your carb profile I know that can have a big impact on energy levels. 

And like I said, I think most of it is probably stress. Stress sucks.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NG,
Running/cardio does zilch for my T levels. Strength training definitely boosts them. 

I know what it feels like to be tired and disappointed/sad. It is really hard. That said if you can "find a way" to psych yourself into some positive activity with your W each night. It could be cleaning the kitchen together while you treat her to your delightful sense of humor. Or a game you both like. And even if you are not feeling lust - some serious affection goes a LONG way. Many nights we "pretzel" entangle in bed while watching tv for an hour. We both love that - it feels special. 

If your W wants to use sex as a substitute for putting good faith effort into the "work" of your marriage that isn't healthy. But if she wants to know you love and forgive her - I think some extra effort is warranted. Vitamin V is incredibly powerful. At low dose - 25 mg - it has little if any side effects. 

I imagine that her combo of "reduced" effort and letting herself go is really effecting your desire level. Is it not realistic/practical for you to walk with her for a couple miles at night? Walking/talking/bantering. Great combo. 




nice777guy said:


> Short rant on my little thread here.
> 
> Sleep study shows no problems at all. When their office initially called they said I needed oxygen, but I don't. No apnea - normal sleeping.
> 
> ...


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

Your welcome. Let me clarify that I dont think you are blaming your wife... you are perceiving and experiencing her in a tentative and somewhat suspicous way ("on the lookout"). I was doing the same thing waiting for the next silent treatment and my husband was waiting for me to "meltdown." However, bc I was looking for the silent treatment they came. Also, bc husband was looking for meltdowns, anything looked like a meltdown, even if it wasnt one. Bottom line, if you live on the edge, looking, you will find validation. Change your outlook and change the situation. It is not as easy to do as just stating that. 

Start by reminding yourself daily what it was you fell in love with your wife for. Think of everything. Then instead of looking at the missing pieces (if alot or all of those things have in your eyes disappeared), conciously tell yourself that that woman is still there she has just taken on other qualities and you love the good and the bad bc all of it makes her who she is. I am still wildly attracted to my husband even though there are love handles now... I just grab on!Good luck!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Short rant on my little thread here.
> 
> Sleep study shows no problems at all. When their office initially called they said I needed oxygen, but I don't. No apnea - normal sleeping.
> 
> ...


I think you are resentful and that is what is hurting your sex life. And WTF? GO GREEN BAY!!!! ROTHLISRAPIST IS GOING DOWN!!!!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Had a pretty good weekend. But at one point my wife started talking about going to a bike rally thats an hour or two away, sometime in June.

Its this kind of thing that I just have trouble processing.

My initial reaction is that people in their late 30's with younger kids just don't go to bike rally's. They go camping. They have pictionary parties. Go to Disney.

Second reaction - maybe I'm being too uptight here. Might be interesting. Suppose it could be fun.

Third - WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A BIKE!

Maybe there's some resentment here, as she seemed to start showing this interest in "bikes" while she was chatting with guys.

But then again, drinking and "hanging out" aren't exactly against my inner rules. I don't think bikers are "bad people." But its just not "my" thing.

And - again - back to those Fibro limitations. It just doesn't seem to fit - a person who feels bad on a NORMAL day wanting to plan to go and ?drink too much?, sleep in a tent and listen to LOUD music with a bunch of people we don't know and may have little in common with?

Do I "indulge" this type of mid-life crisis behavior? Is it better to at least try to go along for the ride? Or do I just tell her I think she's a bit nuts and that we are growing apart?

Feeling really, really just confused right now.

Its not that she's pushing any marital boundaries - I just see her as annoying and obnoxious sometimes.

Feel like I'm kind of lost in general and moving backwards.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NG,
For a totally "one off" thing I never say no. BTW - It doesn't sound fun to me "either". That said I am willing to try just about anything once. 

If you go - and she "loves" it and you "hate" it and she wants to start "attending" rallys on a regular basis that is different. And honestly if THAT happened to us, I would agree to doing it very infrequently - like once every few years. And not to be a jerk but that type event is not one I would accept my W going without me. But once - sure I would try it. 




nice777guy said:


> Had a pretty good weekend. But at one point my wife started talking about going to a bike rally thats an hour or two away, sometime in June.
> 
> Its this kind of thing that I just have trouble processing.
> 
> ...


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Had a pretty good weekend. But at one point my wife started talking about going to a bike rally thats an hour or two away, sometime in June.
> 
> Its this kind of thing that I just have trouble processing.
> 
> ...


I have dragged my husband to Save Darfur rallies in NYC with all three kids in tow. I've dressed up and played pretty wife for his work events even though I didn't want to go. I go and he goes because you've got to give something.

-BUT-

Is what she wants self destructive to your marriage and more of an insult to your marriage than a hobby/interest where she actually doesn't care if you're there because she's looking for male attention from someone else?

It seems like the later but I'm looking from the outside in. It's how you feel that counts. I don't see hanging with bikers to drink and camp out as something she's doing as a hobby but rather something she wants to indulge in and is inviting you because your her current partner. The question really is whether she's invested in having you come as a partner or as a way to prove she's not still stepping out of the marriage, but still really longs to.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Nice Guy,

Don't let the lack of a bike hold you back.

I have a spare you can use.

Might be worth some exploration as to figure out what she's after with this one.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Had a pretty good weekend. But at one point my wife started talking about going to a bike rally thats an hour or two away, sometime in June.
> 
> Its this kind of thing that I just have trouble processing.
> 
> My initial reaction is that people in their late 30's with younger kids just don't go to bike rally's.


Oh oh! I guess we're in trouble then. Dear Hubby and I are in our late 40's/early 50's and we go to bike rally's, car shows, and heavy metal concerts. I wouldn't say I'm a biker babe or he's a mad-man on a Harley, but it's an interest that we share, and when we go, we have a fun time looking at the engines, the specialization, or the paint job! Same for the car shows. And for the heavy metal concerts, well shoot--we truly love all kinds of music and the best way to appreciate and experience good heavy metal is at an all-day concert through those huge speakers! 

My point here is that in YOUR expectation people in their 30's go to Disneyland and play pictionary. It's a sign of maturity to slow down and be more family-oriented. But just so you know, being family-oriented does not preclude bike rallies or heavy metal. Fact is that a LOT of the folks we meet at a bike rally are our age and that's why we like it--we can all actually remember Janis Joplin! LOL 



> Second reaction - maybe I'm being too uptight here. Might be interesting. Suppose it could be fun.


Sure there ya go! Give it a shot! Try to learn more about bikes, manufacturers, engines etc. and then see if you see them at the rally. See if you can identify when a guy has added some cool header or identify the year of a certain bike. Which bike do you prefer? Harley or BMW? Why?



> Third - WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A BIKE!


I don't own a Corvette either and I still go to the 'Vettes on the Rockies car show in Frisco, CO with my kids. Imagine how fun it is to look at an original, restored, silver 1962 Corvette with your kids, who think it looks like an old James Bond car. 



> And - again - back to those Fibro limitations. It just doesn't seem to fit - a person who feels bad on a NORMAL day wanting to plan to go and ?drink too much?, sleep in a tent and listen to LOUD music with a bunch of people we don't know and may have little in common with?


To be honest, this would be something I'd bring up. It seems inconsistent to me that she would be "too bad" to help with laundry on a normal day but miraculously have the energy to go to a bike rally. Now granted, it is somewhat conceivable she'd be making the choice to expend her energy those days knowing it will cost her for a couple weeks...but then couldn't she also choose to expend some on the "normal days" too? 

Anyway, that is a reasonable concern and inconsistency that seems like a topic worth discussing.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I’m perhaps stating the exceptionally obvious NG … marriage is a two way thing, it takes two to tango and all that.

We each have a “love bucket”. I can see that you have made and you are making enormous, almost Herculean efforts to fill your wife’s love bucket. But it sounds like she’s not doing anything at all to fill yours. And you’re walking around day by day with an empty love bucket. Marriage shouldn’t be like that.

Bob


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Had a pretty good weekend. But at one point my wife started talking about going to a bike rally thats an hour or two away, sometime in June.
> 
> Its this kind of thing that I just have trouble processing.
> 
> ...


I'm going to show my ignorance....What is a bike rally? Do you ride bikes or just go and look at bikes? If it's looking at them...can't see the problem, you would be doing something together (and sort of bring to light that since you are doing this maybe she should do something that YOU want to do). If it's riding bikes...I'm really confused....Where the hell did she find all the energy?!?!?!? But one way or the other if she goes...YOU GO!!!! Sorry for sounding paranoid but once you break the trust its hard to rebuild it!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

2sick said:


> I'm going to show my ignorance....What is a bike rally? Do you ride bikes or just go and look at bikes? If it's looking at them...can't see the problem, you would be doing something together (and sort of bring to light that since you are doing this maybe she should do something that YOU want to do). If it's riding bikes...I'm really confused....Where the hell did she find all the energy?!?!?!? But one way or the other if she goes...YOU GO!!!! Sorry for sounding paranoid but once you break the trust its hard to rebuild it!


I'm not real sure myself. It sounds like there are some that are more about the bikes - and some that are more about partying. The one she is talking about - she said we'd sleep in a tent - lasts all weekend I guess. And no one under 18 is admitted. She mentioned a lot of drinking and live music.

Have gotten the idea from a friend and seeing some pics online that there are also wet t-shirt contests and lots of girls showing their chests for whatever reasons

The trust is already strained because of her behavior over the last two years. If she were to insist on going without me, it would probably be a deal-breaker.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I can't believe I'm alone in this but I'd be stupefied if my husband wanted to do this. It's one thing to begin/start a hobby but it's another to revert back to your early 20's and enjoy 18+ drinking and wet t-shirt contests. Especially when you consider your wife allows her disease to be her excuse when it suits her and then wants to attend something so counter productive to her disease. I'd seriously be like...WTF?


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Trenton said:


> I can't believe I'm alone in this but I'd be stupefied if my husband wanted to do this. It's one thing to begin/start a hobby but it's another to revert back to your early 20's and enjoy 18+ drinking and wet t-shirt contests. Especially when you consider your wife allows her disease to be her excuse when it suits her and then wants to attend something so counter productive to her disease. I'd seriously be like...WTF?


Your last two posts have been closest to what the loudest voice in my head is saying - although several people have said to give it a go.

I don't like the idea of being "trapped" in such a situation for a whole weekend.

We were unexpectedly without the kids Friday night and went out for a few drinks. Maybe I'm getting old, but around midnight, the smoke was hurting my eyes and I'd heard enough Lady Ga-Ga and loud bass beats or whatever it was to last me awhile. But my wife wanted to have "one more drink" before we left - so we didn't end up leaving until around 1am.

I was having a decent time - up to a point - and then I just felt like it was time to go.

Had it been real live rock music, then maybe I would have been up for staying out a little later. Or had there not been as much smoke. But at some point the switch flipped and I was just ready to leave. 

Going to be hard to do at a bike rally if "going" just means heading back to a tent.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

If she can go out drinking to 1am, she certainly can help you with the laundry and dishes. If she's allergic to monotony...who isn't?

If the only reason you are going is because you're afraid she's going to cheat on you if she goes alone then something is wrong.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Trenton said:


> If she can go out drinking to 1am, she certainly can help you with the laundry and dishes. If she's allergic to monotony...who isn't?
> 
> If the only reason you are going is because you're afraid she's going to cheat on you if she goes alone then something is wrong.


Think I said this up above somewhere - but she has been doing more around the house lately. She folded and put away about 4 loads of laundry yesterday. And I do want to give her credit for cleaning the carpets and going through our large mound of paper and file cabinet, cleaning the girls' rooms, and several other "smaller projects". The house feels more comfortable than it did a month ago.

The main reason I would go is that she has said she wants to have more fun and go out more often. It actually could be fun.

But it would be better if I trusted her. Maybe she just wants to go and check out the guys - or get attention by flashing HER chest. I really feel like I don't know.

Wondering if there is some way to compromise. Find a rally or something similar that isn't just a party - where we could get a hotel room if I/we wanted to have some peace, and then just go out at night if we wanted.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Yes a compromise would be better and I'm glad she's begun doing more. It sounds as if you are defending her and I think this is the part of you that still loves her. I'd focus on this and be honest with her.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Trenton said:


> Yes a compromise would be better and I'm glad she's begun doing more. It sounds as if you are defending her and I think this is the part of you that still loves her. I'd focus on this and be honest with her.


Just trying to be fair really.

When we went out Friday night - and I was ready to go - she stalled by ordering another drink. While I found this annoying - she wasn't exactly pushing any personal/marital boundaries of mine.

Been thinking a lot about MEM saying his wife gets her way 80% of the time - wondering if I'm trying too hard to control too much right now in my desire to "Man-up." Maybe I need to let some of the little things go and figure out what 20% I really want to have control over.

Getting back to that "resentment" that people keep mentioning - I don't feel like a fun, loving husband right now.

Starting to think seeing a therapist alone might be a decent idea.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Sorry to hear that you're there. I think the difference between Mem and your current relationship is that Mem gets more and so he gives more. His wife makes him feel really good about himself and so he wants to give her what he can to make her feel really good about herself.

You're not getting enough to feel into the relationship and so you're dragging all this heavy baggage and wanting to complain but don't feel as if you can because you want to be a good sport. Stop underestimating your own feelings and undervaluing them.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Trenton said:


> Sorry to hear that you're there. I think the difference between Mem and your current relationship is that Mem gets more and so he gives more. His wife makes him feel really good about himself and so he wants to give her what he can to make her feel really good about herself.


good point - probably right



Trenton said:


> You're not getting enough to feel into the relationship and so you're dragging all this heavy baggage and wanting to complain but don't feel as if you can because you want to be a good sport.


??? Just a bit confused by this one - please clarify...



Trenton said:


> Stop underestimating your own feelings and undervaluing them.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> good point - probably right
> 
> ??? Just a bit confused by this one - please clarify...


I am projecting here based upon our brief interactions on this board but you have many great traits like humor, understanding and thoughtfulness. I wouldn't necessarily put the ass chaps in the positive category though...

You must still be upset by her EA's, that's what I meant by baggage and since the relationship is not currently fulfilling for you, this resentment is magnified.

At the same time, you seem to feel guilty as if you're the one who has done something wrong but I don't think so. I see a wife who has come back in the home, is going through the motions but is not addressing the real issues the two of you had or even the health issues that she has. You can't be responsible for her happiness if it sacrifices your own.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Trenton said:


> I wouldn't necessarily put the ass chaps in the positive category though...


I think I'm offended...:scratchhead:

And its ASSLESS chaps. And all chaps are assless.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

NG~

Please bear in mind that most of the bike rallies that Dear Hubby and I go to, look like this: 










This is a real bike rally in Seaside, Oregon, so it is at once several people riding or interested in motorcycles...and it takes place about 2 blocks from the ocean. My guess is that you can imagine it is fun. We walk the streets...look at the bikes and the different kinds of builds...shake hands and talk to folks or ask them about their bikes... and yeah we may tip back one or two (though at our age we prefer ROOT beer to beer) and yeah there is usually a live band playing somewhere. Being a woman of the world, I'm sure there are drugs and wet t-shirt contests SOMEWHERE but it's not the main focus of the event. The main focus is the bikes and taking a minute to stroll on the ocean with some like-minded admirers of bikes (aka your "old man" or "old lady" -- lol). Along the way you might have a brew or hear some music--you might get to travel a little and meet up with some friends you met last year--but really it's about the motorcycles. 

Thus, if you're going to start a mutual couples' interest or new hobby for the family--that's one thing. If you're going because your wife wants to get drunk, get high, flash her tits and collect beads--why that is a WHOLE other ball of wax! That is inappropriate and you're right, people in their 30's don't get plowed drunk, wonder what they did last night and with whom, and pursue attention by flashing tits. Well...I take that back. When a person marries and has children, we would HOPE they have matured beyond that kind of behavior. I know of some who have not, but they are generally perceived as foolish. 

If she's going to try to relive her youth like that, I'd say that's a pretty bad sign. if she's going out of interest in bikes and spending time with you--maybe starting a new recreation together as a family--why then I would :smthumbup: bikes and cars because it is "of interest" and the biker folks in their 40's can be pretty honest, decent folks.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> I'm not real sure myself. It sounds like there are some that are more about the bikes - and some that are more about partying. The one she is talking about - she said we'd sleep in a tent - lasts all weekend I guess. And no one under 18 is admitted. She mentioned a lot of drinking and live music.
> 
> Have gotten the idea from a friend and seeing some pics online that there are also wet t-shirt contests and lots of girls showing their chests for whatever reasons
> 
> The trust is already strained because of her behavior over the last two years. If she were to insist on going without me, it would probably be a deal-breaker.



You are a NG
You seriously need to check into this bike rally before going. We have something here called "Bikers Blowout" I never have been, but heard co-workers talk about it. 

Basically you look at bikes in the day, and size up other mens women. Drinking begins early. After the daytimers leave, the pot, among other drugs come out. There isn't much 'sleeping' going on in the tents. . You swap women whatever else may enter the drunk mens minds. It's pretty much anything goes.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> I think I'm offended...:scratchhead:
> 
> And its ASSLESS chaps. And all chaps are assless.


:rofl: Oopsie!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I guess I need to do some googling and find out a bit more about this specific rally, in addition to asking her why she wants to go and what she expects we'd be doing.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Well "note to self" NG. 

When I was talking to you about biker rallies, did you notice how I was describing traveling, engines, builds, headers, HP and some of the nice people I've met? Did you notice that my focus was interest in the bikes and holding Dear Hubby's hand as we go about and share things? This would tend to indicate why I want to go, don't you think (ie, to see the bikes and be with Dear Hubby)?

Did you notice that your wife described sleeping in tents, lots of drinking and partying? The focus was on the wild sleeping arrangements, getting drunk/high, and "partying" so at first blush it would sound like that's why she wants to go--it's her focus.

And yeah, if it were me I would DEFINITELY find out more by speaking to her directly. I mean, nothing personal but people can go to church camp and focus on sneaking out and goofing around...or focus on enjoying the camp, learning something, and spending time with folks they love. Thus, Googling the event could be from any "point of view". The one you're interested in is your WIFE'S point of view and reasoning.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Affaircare said:


> Well "note to self" NG.
> 
> When I was talking to you about biker rallies, did you notice how I was describing traveling, engines, builds, headers, HP and some of the nice people I've met? Did you notice that my focus was interest in the bikes and holding Dear Hubby's hand as we go about and share things? This would tend to indicate why I want to go, don't you think (ie, to see the bikes and be with Dear Hubby)?
> 
> ...


She specifically mentioned music and drinking. The tents were supposed to be so people don't have to drive while "partying."

And yes - still - there is a difference between her language and yours.

Still - I'm just going to do a little research first and then see if she even brings it up again. She's only mentioned it seriously on one occaision - then heard her mention it to a girlfriend in a casual conversation over the weekend that we "might" go.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

OK - did some googling last night - glad I didn't do it here from work.

Clothing optional lake to cool off in. Wet T-shirt contests every evening as well as topless hula hoop contests and some sort of weiner eating contest too. 

BYOB - camping encouraged so no one has to drive.

Found a lot of pictures that the official site had posted from past years. Some of the pics even had a bike or two in them! But most (or at least half) of them were focused on topless women.

I don't freakin' get it.

On the other hand - she did a lot of cleaning / straightening / purging in our bedroom yesterday...


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

Really, ask her about her intentions. Not much else you could do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> OK - did some googling last night - glad I didn't do it here from work.
> 
> Clothing optional lake to cool off in. Wet T-shirt contests every evening as well as topless hula hoop contests and some sort of weiner eating contest too.
> 
> ...



These are the legal daytime activities. Sun goes down it's a different ballgame. Ask around maybe some men have been to this rally, and can tell you what goes on.


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