# Dinner with an Ex?



## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

Say I went out of town with some buddies this weekend. I got back and saw my wife who mentioned to me, after the fact, that she had had dinner with a guy she had dated. What would you guys say?

Now let's say that she wasn't my wife, but rather a girl I had been dating exclusively for only the past 4, 5 months. What does that change?

See a year ago, I was engaged to another woman who cheated on me. I discovered, cancelled the wedding, eventually ended the relationship and then moved on. Eventually, I started dating my current girlfriend. But with that in the background, I felt this might be a good place to present the question.

I don't want to project my xWF's betrayal onto this girl (or all women), but I feel like I need to confront this dinner in some way. I'm not worried that there was any actual betrayal here, but rather wondering how to introduce this girl to the way boundaries work in a maturing relationship. She's 10 years younger than I and probably believes that ex's can be 'just friends.' I sure-as-f*ck don't, not anymore.

My xWF did something like this at one point as well, but we had been together for 3 years and were living together at that point. I, predictably, didn't make an issue of it. I'm looking to learn from my mistakes.

The bigger question here is about making that transition from a marital relationship back to the dating world. Which standard apply and which don't yet apply?

Thoughts?


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

So your wife is now dating her old lover.(or your girlfriend is, not clear)

In what dimension does she think this is acceptable ?

What have you told her about it?
You need to draw some hard boundaries fast like.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

You sit down and have a very reasonable, non-judgmental conversations and lay out what you're beliefs are for relationships. You need to be prepared to walk away from this fledgling relationship.

DO NOT challenge her, do not bring up your ex's issues. Do not bring up in any way that you think she "did wrong".

You bring it up as YOUR issue and what your beliefs are in a relationship and hope she can agree. Also you can ask her how she would feel if while you were out of town you met up with your ex?


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

tacoma said:


> So your wife is now dating her old lover.(or your girlfriend is, not clear)
> 
> In what dimension does she think this is acceptable ?
> 
> ...


Unless of course the poor chap somehow got himself teleported into that dreadful Twilight Zone dimension known as Just-a-good-friend-land?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> You sit down and have a very reasonable, non-judgmental conversations and lay out what you're beliefs are for relationships. You need to be prepared to walk away from this fledgling relationship.
> 
> DO NOT challenge her, do not bring up your ex's issues. Do not bring up in any way that you think she "did wrong".
> 
> You bring it up as YOUR issue and what your beliefs are in a relationship and hope she can agree. Also you can ask her how she would feel if while you were out of town you met up with your ex?


All this but I would add that I am so uncomfortable with this that you couldn't live with it if it happened again. There must be "real" consequences in the equation.


----------



## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

This is a toughie. I think you should have a sit down, talk to her about it honestly, and just lay out how you feel on the matter and see what she thinks on it. 

Don't butt heads with her in beliefs though. 

Sounds like a frank thing to do, but relationship boundaries aren't something that should be implied, but clearly stated to one another. 

I think you should start off with asking her what she thinks about that sort of thing and then easing into it.


----------



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

I must be projecting, but I can't imagine meeting an ex and not thinking even once about the sex we had. Doesn't mean I'd bring it up, but ex lovers are on a different level of intimacy than friends.

I mean, why of a sudden, especially when you're out of town?


----------



## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> You sit down and have a very reasonable, non-judgmental conversations and lay out what you're beliefs are for relationships. You need to be prepared to walk away from this fledgling relationship.
> 
> DO NOT challenge her, do not bring up your ex's issues. Do not bring up in any way that you think she "did wrong".
> 
> You bring it up as YOUR issue and what your beliefs are in a relationship and hope she can agree. Also you can ask her how she would feel if while you were out of town you met up with your ex?


This is just the nuggets of gold I was looking for, thanks. I want to be clear about where I stand, but I'm a bit worried that she might think, "Oh he's just punishing me for what his ex did to him."

Can you help me out with some examples or sound bites that communicate boundaries in a non-reprimanding or non-judgmental manner?


----------



## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Unless of course the poor chap somehow got himself teleported into that dreadful Twilight Zone dimension known as Just-a-good-friend-land?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm pretty confident that she eventually friend-zoned this guy. He wanted to talk to her about some "things he's been going through." He's still friends with a couple of her girl friends.


----------



## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

The meeting with him while you were out of town part is what gets to me. 

Frankly, you don't have a lot of sunk costs here. A few months? I'd consider moving on. I'm sorry. As a woman, if I were really into you (are you really into her?), I'd not be chatting up my ex-boyfriends and having dinner. 

Also, in fairness, until I was cheated on, I did not have the same idea about boundaries. It might be she's okay with fuzzier boundaries, because she's younger and a bit clueless, or thinks the flirting around the edges of things is okay, we're all "cool."

Explain your concerns. Don't be afraid to walk. I wonder too, has this been a pattern for you? The cheating fiancé, the boundary issue GF. Would it weird you out to be with someone who is totally into you?


----------



## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

Just read "things he's going through."

Oh no no no.

That's the whole emotional, lean on you thing. Let me tell you intimate details of my life, be my confidant. 

And it's one on one, not a get together with old buddies in a group thing. 

Yuck. Smells bad to me. Sorry.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Number 1. You MUST be prepared to end the relationship if you're boundaries don't match. If she doesn't agree to your boundaries (and vice versa on her issues) then your relationship won't make it regardless.

Number 2. Just state everything in the "I feel, I believe" format. You can also say "Not everyone believes the way I do, and that's fine for their lives, but this is what I believe". That's what I'm talking about being non-judgmental. It's the same as a conversation about religion. You might be one religion, you're not going to follow a different one, just because it gets you a young hottie LOL. But you're also not judging someone who is islamic, hindu, jewish etc.

Talk very matter of factly. This isn't about emotions. It's about what you expect and believe in regarding your relationships.


----------



## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> All this but I would add that I am so uncomfortable with this that you couldn't live with it if it happened again. There must be "real" consequences in the equation.


Understood.


----------



## ody360 (Feb 1, 2013)

Im assuming she know how your last marriage or relationship ended. 

But i feel anyone in a relationship just dating would think twice about going out to dinner with a ex. I kinda question judgement already. A ran into conversation in a store or something yeah. But dinner it can always be kind of a date. They obviously talked somehow, phone text, facebook ect. How long have they been talking.... Need to think a little deeper maybe on this... They went to dinner so that means planning was involved which means she is talking to him with out you even knowing it.

I guess im just paranoid here but I'm thinking some read flags here and maybe some major caution with this relationship going any further... If you have to talk to her about this and advising her that hey its not right what you just did. Do you really want to have to explain to her what is wrong and what is wrong. Shouldn't have to even think about that.


----------



## fishfast41 (Dec 12, 2010)

Dinner with ex lover? Not cool. Smells really fishy. I've seen that people are definitely not to be trusted around ex lovers. Always assume "just friends" is a lie.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Number 1. You MUST be prepared to end the relationship if you're boundaries don't match. If she doesn't agree to your boundaries (and vice versa on her issues) then your relationship won't make it regardless.
> 
> Number 2. Just state everything in the "I feel, I believe" format. You can also say "*Not everyone believes the way I do, and that's fine for their lives, but this is what I believe".* That's what I'm talking about being non-judgmental. It's the same as a conversation about religion. You might be one religion, you're not going to follow a different one, just because it gets you a young hottie LOL. But you're also not judging someone who is islamic, hindu, jewish etc.
> 
> Talk very matter of factly. This isn't about emotions. It's about what you expect and believe in regarding your relationships.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: QFT!! This is good. I might also add that I actually use the "I think, I feel" format, because some people are Thinkers and some are Feelers. So I'd say "I think *this* and I feel *that*" and just let her know that's where you're at and what you expect. 

Hey the fact may be that she's a fine person who hasn't considered boundaries...or it may be she expects to have NO boundaries (which is unrealistic). You won't know until you talk to her.


----------



## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Labcoat said:


> a girl I had been *dating exclusively* for only the past 4, 5 months.
> Thoughts?


Unless the words "dating exclusively" have changed meaning, she was out of line. 

Going to dinner with someone is a "date". Doncha think? 

Why don't you ask her why she thought it was okay to have a date with anyone. Especially with an old flame? 

Her youth doesn't excuse the date. And unless it was only you that thought you were 'exclusive' you both have a lot to talk about.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I agree with the consensus that this is your boundary and your belief. She might have a totally opposite opinion on the situation, but it is your boundary and your issue.

My opinion is that exes are never ok to have any friendly time with except purely accidentally. Not when you are in a committed exclusive relationship. If she runs into an ex in the grocery store sure it is fine to say hi and ask how things are going. But meeting for coffee or dinner etc is not ok no matter what they believe their relationship to be currently.

So I think I would tell her that for you in an exclusive relationship it is not acceptable.


----------



## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Labcoat said:


> Can you help me out with some examples or sound bites that communicate boundaries in a non-reprimanding or non-judgmental manner?


Sure. It was a sh*t test. Yours is ten years younger, right? Mine is thirty years younger. She needs to be spanked. 

Mine did something wrong about a month into it. I sent her away the next time she came to see me and told her I did not want to see her and I had to think over whether this was a relationship I wanted. She went home and told her parents it was over. I have never seen the look in her eyes again like I saw that evening. Darkness, like death. 

Not long before that I had a date with a little cheerleader who was on the cover of the basketball programs. She was the smallest one so she was the one they threw really high up in the air for tumbling stunts. She was late to meet me for a golf date. Five minutes after she was supposed to be there I got into my car and drove off. I saw her coming in the lot as I was leaving. She tried a couple more times but I was right in my initial judgement. She wasn't worth it. 

The business about projecting your ex-fiance onto her: I presume she knows about the history of this ex-fiance and because of that her transgression looks all the more calculated. You don't need to mention the ex, but if she does and makes this accusation then put the boot squarely in her rear end.


----------



## amr1977 (Mar 2, 2013)

I think you have received a lot of solid advice on how to move forward in your current situation.

One important thing your post brings up is the advantage of being preemptive about this stuff. There are ways to casually bring these kinds of potential dealbreakers up very early on in a relationship - even the first date sometimes. If a woman has an ex who is an important person for her to spend time with she will usually be pretty upfront about it as it is so common these days.

Now, obviously you have no basis for the enforcement of any boundaries at that stage of the game, but you can at least have a vague idea of where you stand. I mean, if she tells you her ex is now her BFF and they have regular sleepovers then you know you should probably walk unless you're a guy who can roll with that sort of thing.

Just something to think about if this one doesn't go the distance.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

I have to assume that she knew what your ex did to you... So you're out of town and she goes on a dinner date with her ex anyway...
I would have walked the second I found out, but I've been cheated on before... I have to say that you are handeling this alot calmer then I ever could have. When my ex wanted to meet her previous bf for lunch(we wern't married yet), I said fine, "I won't be here when you get back" and started packing my cloths. She begged me not to leave and I unpacked. 'Course this bit me in the a$$ 15 years later when she raked my heart over the coals and left me, but that's another story.


----------



## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Labcoat said:


> I'm pretty confident that she eventually friend-zoned this guy. He wanted to talk to her about some "things he's been going through." He's still friends with a couple of her girl friends.


I'll be frank, so fasten your seatbelt and get a tight grip on the armrest.

There was this woman I had dated way back when, some 5 years ago. (I was 25 and she was 31, she had gotten divorced recently.)

I'm sure you know the "first meeting" details - the excitement, the "let's do this - no let's do that" phase, the whole bit.

So we end up taking the ferry and going to some island close enough to visit during the day, have some fun and return home. We set foot on the island and decide to walk 6 kilometers (we use km.s out here) to climb up to a church at the peak of the island, end up at the restaurant next to it, eating and drinking wine and laughing. Good times.

Return home - 6 km.s back on foot. Take the ferry. City's traffic. Eventually she invites to her place.

Ta-daa. Night ends with me getting friendzoned - we were both too tired to have walked so much road, we basically "wrestled" in her bed and couldn't see the happy ending, both of us. She gets cold, distant, I know exactly why, heheh.. She later (later = following day) reluctantly reveals that "it"s her fault too", after all she was the one to decide about the trip to the island.

All in all, I was "friendzoned". How couldn't I be, failing to have a woman reach orgasm. Unacceptable. Maybe beyond that, outside the borders of that zone, permanent resident of the "void beyond" for her.

5 years later with absolutely no contact, two weeks ago , Tuesday, she sends a message thru a site we're both members of, saying that she actually missed me and how she managed to get a hold on a bottle of Jagermeister (like it's a really big deal) and we should totally suck the entire bottle dry together till we pass out on a nice Saturday night, at her bed, next to a wall where a quote of Kerouac's reside, she knows how I love that quote, she won't hesitate to voice the quote up, perfectly suitable to the context of her "message" (she's good with that kind of stuff.) Does she know that I'm currently in a realtionship? Doesn't matter.

What matters that she, even if once, to put it bluntly, "tasted" me. Knows me and my body, whatever the outcome that night. She perhaps thinks she may have some hasty thoughts about me that night and the following day, but now she actually thinks about "us", the possibility of things we might do together when we're not "that" tired. She wants to try. Again. With me. "Friendzoned". Years ago.

Long story? Oh, it should be only too short for you - when there's an ex, evin if an ONS at that, there's no friendzone. That's what YOU think. Just like I did. If I were to be really friendzoned, she wouldn't have invited me to her place. She would say "I'll call you, thanks for the wine up there" and never even touch her phone with the intention of calling me.

Meh I talked too much, here's this - if the man who had dinner with your woman is called an "ex", he's not a friend, no sir. Make no mistake.

Might as well keep your eyes open. There may be some "quotes" known only by them two, and you may be totally clueless about that.

My very long 1/5 dozen on the matter. Thank you for reading. Now, again, KEEP THEM YOUR EYES OPEN.


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

How would she feel if the roles were reversed? This is so disrespectful to you and your marriage. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. Make it clear this is a deal breaker. No dating other men especially ex-lovers.


----------



## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Whether SHE friendzoned him or not, what do you thing HE thinks? 

Exactly! Men don't believe in the friendzone. Men always want to fvck. And the 'oh...let me share my woes with you.' You know exactly what playbook that is out of.

Now, either she's clueless or she's partially willing. Knows she's skirting the bounds of propriety.

Here is where I disagree with everyone else. Yes, have that conversation. Ask her to explain how she sees your relationsihp. Maybe she doesn't want to be exclusive anymore.

I'd have this conversation when you take her out to dinner. Ask her what you two are doing together.

Likely, she'll say it's a date. "So...why is THIS dinner with me a date and the dinner you had with Choad not a date? More importantly, how would anyone who knows us as a couple seeing you and Choad look at it?"

I would be concerned that it happened without warning, without clearing it, and when you were gone. A simple "Would you mind if I had dinner with Choad?" would be the mature thing to do.

So...sounds like she isn't so exclusive anymore.

Doesn't mean you dump her. Just redefine your relationship and start looking around.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

walkonmars said:


> Why don't you ask her why she thought it was okay to have a date with anyone. Especially with an old flame?


 I was thinking the same thing. As her ex it is a fact that she had a romantic relationship with the ex that included some form of sex. As an ex he was and is a viable candidate to be her partner. Dating viable candidates is all about giving them a chance to win her over. Having dinner alone with a viable candidate is a date pure and simple, no matter how she tries to spin it. You know it was a date, the ex knows that it was a date, and she knows that it was a date. The fact that you are the type of person that let her look you in the face and say otherwise without immediate and major consequences from you, probably explains much as to why your wife felt that it was OK to cheat on you. Sorry about being so harsh, but this is a bad way to start a relationship. You need to change your dating MO. "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" - Albert Einstein.

Having dinner with an ex without telling you first and while you were out of town was not an accident. It was planned so that she had the option to spend as much time as she wanted with him, and so that they had the option to go home with each other without any chance of interference from you. She cheated on you, and your first instinct was to go beta and think about it.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

It was a date. They are still in contact. Few women can believe how men really think. You are not in an exclusive relationship.Are you sure your on the same page?.



Let us know how this goes.


----------



## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

I got asked early in our dating if I had any 'unfinished business'. When I questioned further, I was asked if there was anyone from my past that I felt was, 'the one that got away'. It opened the door to my thinking as to who danger people could be to my relationship (young loves) and it opened the door to a boundary discussion that we both respect to this day. I have male acquaintances, but they are friends of the marriage and I would not spend one on one time with them without my husband there. It's a date in my opinion and your gf knows it too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

Forgot about this thread... Hubby&Dad wins the prize for the best advice. We went out for a beer after work where I brought up the dinner and it went well. This was our first boundary conversation... hell it was MY first boundary conversation. I did use lots of "I think" and "I feel" describing what she had told me.

But then I said, quite coldly, "Look, I left xWF after 5 years together, but I should have left her a lot sooner. I have learned my lesson and will end this without a second thought if it happens again, capisce?"

She swallowed her beer and offered what I felt was a sincere apology. Old me would have avoided that harshness, so it was weirdly awesome when she seemed kinda turned on by it. She offered a bit of an explanation--but I cut her off saying I didn't want to hear it and tried moving the conversation to things like work.

The challenge here is that I'm generally OK with opposite-sex friends. We wouldn't have met were it not for a mutual male friend of ours. I have a couple of ex-coworkers that I meet up with from time-to-time as a group (I'm the only guy in this group). The guy she was out with had been a friend since college who had begged and pleaded to be more than friends and so she went on a few date-dates with him a few years ago.

I genuinely believe that she thought, "This is a male friend and that's OK." And then she got there and realized, "Oh sh**! This is probably out of bounds. I actually dated this guy at one point." Anyway, she was home by 7 because we were IMing... she actually asked to come over in the IM, but I was exhausted and told her I was going to be early. She had wanted to talk to me about it in person.

The outcome was this: Opposite sex friends should be friendly with both of us. No exes unless the other is physically present. One exception to that might be any transactions I might have with my xWF because she's straight-up unstable--although I've done a great job of completely cutting her out of my life.


----------



## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

chapparal said:


> It was a date. They are still in contact. Few women can believe how men really think. You are not in an exclusive relationship.Are you sure your on the same page?.
> 
> 
> 
> Let us know how this goes.


If we weren't, I think we are now. There's not a doubt in my mind that this woman is into very me right now. She just swallowed that Gen-Y edition of the blue pill a little too hard.


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Labcoat said:


> my wife had dinner with a guy she had dated.
> 
> a year ago, I was engaged to another woman who cheated on me.
> 
> My xWF did something like this at one point as well


Your ex wife cheated on you. 
You ex-fiance cheated on you. 
*One year later, you are married to a 3rd woman* who goes on a date with an ex-boyfriend.

Try dating a bit longer between marriages (seriously, one yr. ago??!! wtf), and during the dating period, maybe discuss stuff like boundaries and acceptable relationship behavior so that you don't have to sit and explain to a 4th woman what she should already know about marriage.

It's fine that you are cool with opposite sex friends...I'm not, and judging by how thick your relationship blinders are, you probably shouldn't be either.... but still, NO MEETING UP WITH OPPOSITE SEX "FRIENDS" ALONE.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

fishfast41 said:


> Dinner with ex lover? Not cool. Smells really fishy. I've seen that people are definitely not to be trusted around ex lovers. Always assume "just friends" is a lie.


:iagree:

Unnecessary and inappropriate.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Neither of you should be going out with opposite sex friends with out each other. It just doesn't work.


----------



## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

tulsy said:


> Your ex wife cheated on you.
> You ex-fiance cheated on you.
> *One year later, you are married to a 3rd woman* who goes on a date with an ex-boyfriend.
> 
> Try dating a bit longer between marriages (seriously, one yr. ago??!! wtf).


You should read more carefully. You clearly missed the operative parts of my post.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My wife once invited an ex of mine to a function. They had been friends for years anda it was a total coincidence that I dated both of them.

I was sat between them and I must admit I did feel somewhat awkward as I tried, but failed, pretty much to not think of the fact I was sat between two women who I had been intimate with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

This whole Ex as "just a Friend' thing has been driven me crazy.
Anybody read any threads about the subject?


----------

