# Help me figure out what's going on here



## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

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My wife and I have been married 12 years. We have 3 children together; ages 11, 9, and 6. I'm quite a bit older than her; I am 50, she is 34. 
I look good for my age, keep in shape, etc. I am a very loving, affectionate, caring guy; I cook, clean, do the dishes, give her backrubs, buy her turtles (her favorites); just generally try to make her feel special. 


She is the exact opposite. I'll be lucky if I get a kiss from her once a month (unless it's a quick goodbye kiss as she's leaving for work). She's not affectionate at all, but I knew this from before and have learned to live with it. 
That's just how she is. Our sex life is great! We still have sex (up until recently) 2-3 times a week, and she can even orgasm twice once in a while. No complains there.


We've had some hard times in the last 5 months, argueing and such, which I will explain later. A couple of weeks ago I walk in the door, all smiles happy to see her. I try to give her a kiss and she turns her head. I then tried to kiss her again but she just pulled away. 
She's done this before, but everytime when she was busy doing something. This time she was just standing there. 



That hurt me so bad inside, I just shut down. I stopped giving her attention; started acting the way she treats me. She responded by being very terse with me, no more long conversations, even more distant, etc. I finally stopped talking to her; she responded by saying "What, now you don't even want to talk to me?". 3 days later I asked her why she was treating me so badly; that it seemed we were more like roommates, not husband and wife.
I also told her that she needed to see a psychiatrist because of past issues before we were married that have never gone away (she was abused by her stepdad). 

Instead of a positive reaction from her (lets work this out, etc), she totally disengaged herself from me. "We're like roommates, huh?". A couple of days later she said that she needed to figure out why she treats me so bad, that she doesn't trust me anymore, that she needed some time to herself to figure out who she is. She brought up that maybe we should get divorced if she couldn't come to terms with all of this. She basically said "I need to figure out who I am; you need to leave!". 

So here I am 3 days later, staying at a friends house, letting her figure out what she wants to do. She didn't give me a date for me to come back.


*HER ISSUES WITH ME*

*She doesn't trust me anymore *- I helped build a house for my Mom, and when she sold it, she gave me $30,000 for the kids education fund (Missouri MOST) and $5000 to help pay for a new roof for the house. I never told her about it, knowing that the money was not going for us. The $5000 I put in our joint savings account, and she checks it online every so often. It's not that I put it under the mattress to hide it, I just didn't think it was a big deal. BTW: she has a checking account in her name only; I got pissed off when a couple of years ago I opened up my own saving account, so I closed it to make her happy.

I save money every month which goes in our safe, and had to take out $1900 to cover a stock trade that went bad. Then she wanted to know exactly how much I spend per month and where the rest of the money was going. I told her every detail; and she's told me many times she isn't interested in investing or how it works.

*I order her food for her:* She told me that she's tired of me telling the waiter/waitress what she is having; "I have my own mouth, I can order myself!" To me it's just common courtesy for the man to order.

*I order her beer for her at the bar:* Same as above with same reaction

*I walk in front of her, not with her*: Many times, definitely guilty of that

*"You walk away when I think that you're behind me":* Guilty of that too. If I see something I like, I'll mosy off and she'll say, "where did you go, I thought you were behind me"

She stated that she felt like I was like her father, and she wanted some space to figure out who she is. I don't consider myself a controlling person; maybe she does.


*HER OTHER ISSUE WITH ME*

Like I said, I am a loving,trusting husband who would never do anything intentionally to hurt her. I've made 2 mistakes in our marriage:

1) On my birthday 8 years ago, I went to order a beer at the bar. I went up to the bar and ordered the beer, and stated it was my birthday. The girl standing next to me said "Happy Birthday", gave me a quick (and I mean quick) kiss and walked away. My wife was pissed. She's never let me live that down, saying I was "Sucking Face" with her. Not true.

2) 2 Years ago New Years Eve, we were out with some friends. I barely ever drink any hard liquor, but I got to drinking shots that night for some reason. I don't remember anything after about 2 hours in there. Total blackout. My friend told me that at Midnight, I gave the bartender a kiss on the cheek. My wife then punched me in the face. Like I said, I don't remember any of this; and I certainly will never get that drunk again. She's never let me live that down either.


*NOW FOR THE GOOD PART*


We've always done everything together, we generally get along great. Like I said, our sex life is great! About a year and a half ago, her friend broke up with her boyfriend and was really depressed. My wife said that she would go out with her to cheer her up. She started going out to the bars fairly frequently while I stayed at home with the kids.

I started getting worried (and I'm not a jealous guy at all, even she'll tell you that), especially after she and her sister went to a party at a guys house who invited then to go after the bars closed and she didn't come home until 4:30 in the morning. She ended up being Facebook friends with him. In her defense, I don't think she ever contacted him.

After about 5 weeks of this, she sits me down one day and says: "Would you mind if I have sex with other guys; It's only sex, it doesn't mean anything". I asked her how she would do this, she said "I'll just get a guys phone number, and when the urge arrises, maybe once a month, I'll go over to his house and F*ck him. No emotional ties whatsoever, it's only sex". I asked her if I could do the same thing; she said "No, you would get too emotional and get attached to the girl". 

Man, that killed me. It was like my heart had been ripped out and stomped on. I never, ever, would have thought that she wanted another guy. She never acted like she wanted one. I cried for 4 days, had to see a psychologist, before she finally realized how much it hurt me. She then said she was just gauging my reaction, she really never wanted anyone else.


I hurt for about 2 months, then got over it. Everything was going alright.

*
ROUND 2*

Part 1:

Last summer in July, we had 3 soccer coaches from England staying at our house for a week. One of the guys was really attractive, and she just swooned over this guy. She tried to change her work schedule to stay home, didn't sleep during the day when she was working night shift, etc. She then took them to the bar one night, I showed up about Midnight just as she was rubbing her rear in some other guys c*ck. 

Man was I dissappointed. What really hurt me was that she payed him more attention in 1 week than I get all year!


She then starting going to the bars again, this time with a couple of local friends. She was going out once to twice a week, coming home late, having fun and dirty dancing.

PART 2:

In late September, she went to a 3 day conference in Columbia, MO with one of her friends. The 2nd night she was there, I hired a private detective to tail her. I called her about 6pm and asked her what she was going to do. She said she was going to go shopping, go out to eat, go back to the Hotel bar for a couple and go to bed. The detective followed them to Kohls and dinner, and she was doing exactly what she told me she was going to do.
I was happy! I trusted my wife, so I called off the detective and told him to go home.

I then called my wife around 9pm because I was going to bed. She said "Not much is going on here, just having a few beers and going to call it a night. I love you". Man, I was happy, she barely ever says "I Love You", so when she does, it means a lot. We talked for about 1/2 an hour and she said "I Love You" again before hanging up.


At 12:30AM the phone rings. It's the detective! I said "What are you doing calling me, I called you off!" He said: "I've been doing this a long time; I know how it ends". Apparently her and her friend had gone downtown and picked up a couple of guys. I found out later that these guys were in fact staying at the same hotel they were, were drunk and needed a ride home. That was verified. 

The detective gave me the play by play: The guy her friend was with went back to his room, while my wife and her friend and this other guy went to my wife's room (she was rooming with her friend, he was rooming with his). He went to the bathroom, and then my wife and him went to his room. I was freaking out. I waited about 10 minutes, the called back to her room.

I wish I could have seen the look on her friends face when I called. I asked to speak to my wife, and she stuttered "She's in the bathroom". "Well, give her the phone!". "I can't, I'll have her call you when she gets out". She then called my wife who calls me back. I made up a fake story about me having a bad dream. She said "Don't worry, I'm in bed and ready to go to sleep; I'll call you tomorrow". 

I waited another 15 minutes, then called her again. I couldn't stand it any longer. I told her there was a detective that had been following her and she was busted. She lied and said there wasn't another guy, he must have had the wrong room. He verified she was indeed with the guy. She hung up on me, then she texted "We didn't have sex". She told me that they were just talking, she wasn't tired yet and wanted to stay up a little bit longer. 

Needless to say I wasn't very happy. When she came home the next day, we had a big fight, but at the end, we made up. I wanted to believe she was telling the truth.


PART 3:

I was bummed out for about a month, but got over it. One halloween night, we got dressed up, went dancing and had an absolutely awesome time. It was so good, I told her it reminded me of when we were dating. Hadn't had that much fun in years! About a week later she bought a card and told me how special I was and that she loved me. She had never done this in our entire marriage, so I felt great!!!

Then in December we went out for her birthday and were having a good time. She asked if she could dance with other guys. I said no problem; like I said, I'm not a jealous guy. We were both on the dance floor, and she started dancing with this one guy. Next thing I know, she had her hands all over the guys *ss and was feeling him up on the dance floor. I was dissappointed. She told me later that's how she always has danced. She just likes dirty dancing and it doesn't mean anything.


With all this happening within 4 months, I started having good and bad days. She couldn't understand why I was acting like this. If I were to do the same thing she does, we'd be divorced. There's a huge double standard in our relationship. 

Example: We were at Walmart a couple of weeks ago and I was in the checkout line. She snuck off because the person behind the register was a girl. We struck up a conversation about the weather and work. She was fat and pregnant, married, definitely not attractive. My wife comes up from behind and says "Didn't know I was behind you, did you". She gave me a dirty look and walked away. 

A week later, we were shopping again. I asked the checkout girl if I could borrow the Aldi's ad to comp. All I said was' "Can I borrow the Aldi's ad, I'll bring it right back". My wife got pissed and told me to get my own cart. I had had enough. I walked off, got in the car, and went home. I couldn't take it anymore, She called and I picked her up. That was the beginning of where this story started. 


I don't know what to do. I love my wife to death, she means the world to me. What's going on here? Any advice?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Have you asked her?


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

The problem was shutting down. You should have acted nicely but stopped showing those signs of affection. No kisses good-bye, no kisses when you get home, no kisses when you go to bed.

Question... do you kiss during sex?


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

No, we never kiss during sex. She thinks of sex as something non emotional; just a physical act. We both get off; she lays on top of me while I rub her back for a couple of minutes afterwards; then we go to sleep


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

She always minimizess her actions and exaggerates mine. "It didn't mean anything". "I didn't do anything wrong".


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

She sounds just like my husband's former MOW. No boundaries and sex is just an act (not intimate). She needs IC and to agree to MC.

By the way the MOW was a serial cheater.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

guitardude said:


> No, we never kiss during sex. She thinks of sex as something non emotional; just a physical act. We both get off; she lays on top of me while I rub her back for a couple of minutes afterwards; then we go to sleep


Holy cow... I missed most of your first post. When it started repeating, I thought it was done, but just now saw the rest of it.

I'm answering as a 44 y.o. woman who was sexually molested pretty extensively as a child and spent a lot of years and time learning how to "be" in relationships. 

Your wife's daddy issues are governing her life in many ways.

I believe your wife sees you as a good source of security, but those childhood issues may get in the way of being intimate with you. It's pretty common for a grown sex abuse victim to feel fine with having sex with strangers yet have trouble with her partner. She doesn't feel loyalty to strangers, and they don't register as "risky" in her mind because her abuse came from a person she should've been able to trust. You, on the other hand, are in a position of power in her life, which in her beliefs, means you're likely to abuse or misuse her. She's on guard against that, and unless she gets some intensive counseling, probably always will keep that wall up.

When she says she sees sex as just sex, that's probably true in a way, but it's not entirely accurate, either. If it was just sex, she wouldn't feel a need to pursue it elsewhere. It's still meaningful to her, but in her life, sex has a different meaning than it does to you. To her, it's a way of feeling in control and powerful, and to get validation and approval from others. She does not experience it as a means to feel close to someone the way you probably do. It may also be the only thing about herself that she *knows* others find value in.

She is hypersensitive to feeling controlled. She learned early on that she cannot trust the people who are supposed to be trustworthy, and so she doesn't. Each time you order a beer for her it reminds her of what she is fighting against - feeling dependent on anyone. She cannot see it as a sign of consideration the way you intend it to be. 

I could speak in depth about how difficult it was for me to learn to accept my partner's influence without feeling weak and vulnerable. How I blamed my partners for so many petty things unfairly.
I could tell you how different sex with a new guy is from sex with a familiar partner for me, and how I've learned to cope. But it would literally require a book to go through the decades it took for me to get where I could be a good partner, and that was with constant effort. Your wife is just ten years younger, and has chosen a different path to cope with her experiences. 

I want to tell you that you're not responsible for creating her responses. She may blame something you did, but the truth is that she's still responsible for her choices on how to respond to triggers. 

My suggestion to you would be to pull back even further, and to tell her that you won't tolerate her sexual antics any longer. Back it up by kicking her out and keeping the kids with you if she doesn't square it up. She is not going to change without a severe wake-up call. In my own case, I lost a very important relationship before I even SERIOUSLY considered that I was part of the problem. Keep in mind that she is more receptive to strangers than to loved ones because of her upbringing, so she's likely to be more responsive to someone she can't control than someone who professes undying (and oh-so-scary) love. 

Best wishes.


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

```
<I believe your wife sees you as a good source of security, but those childhood issues may get in the way of being intimate with you. It's pretty common for a grown sex abuse victim to feel fine with having sex with strangers yet have trouble with her partner. She doesn't feel loyalty to strangers, and they don't register as "risky" in her mind because her abuse came from a person she should've been able to trust. You, on the other hand, are in a position of power in her life, which in her beliefs, means you're likely to abuse or misuse her. She's on guard against that, and unless she gets some intensive counseling, probably always will keep that wall up.>
```

_I understand but I have never even been remotely abusive to her. I've giving her more love and compassion than anyone in her entire life._


<When she says she sees sex as just sex, that's probably true in a way, but it's not entirely accurate, either. If it was just sex, she wouldn't feel a need to pursue it elsewhere. It's still meaningful to her, but in her life, sex has a different meaning than it does to you. To her, it's a way of feeling in control and powerful, and to get validation and approval from others. She does not experience it as a means to feel close to someone the way you probably do. It may also be the only thing about herself that she *knows* others find value in.>


_You got that right! Man, she always wants to be in control. She just finished '50 Shades of Gray' and she's the dominant one, not me. I asked her if I could be, she said "No Way!"._ 

<I could tell you how different sex with a new guy is from sex with a familiar partner for me, and how I've learned to cope. But it would literally require a book to go through the decades it took for me to get where I could be a good partner, and that was with constant effort. Your wife is just ten years younger, and has chosen a different path to cope with her experiences. >

_My wife is 16 years younger, not 10. Her problem is, she hardly ever puts effort into the relationship. I've told her more than once that a marriage is 50/50 with both of us supporting each other, not 90/10. She ignores it._

Thanks for the detailed advice. I'm wondering if she still even loves me. Her friend says she does. Her friend also says my wife is 'not normal'.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

guitardude said:


> ```
> <I believe your wife sees you as a good source of security, but those childhood issues may get in the way of being intimate with you. It's pretty common for a grown sex abuse victim to feel fine with having sex with strangers yet have trouble with her partner. She doesn't feel loyalty to strangers, and they don't register as "risky" in her mind because her abuse came from a person she should've been able to trust. You, on the other hand, are in a position of power in her life, which in her beliefs, means you're likely to abuse or misuse her. She's on guard against that, and unless she gets some intensive counseling, probably always will keep that wall up.>
> ```
> 
> ...


You don't have to abuse her for her to perceive it as a possibility. This is a subconscious thing for a survivor, and she will likely perceive mistreatment where there is none. 

I meant she's about 10 years younger than me, not you, to compare how much and how long it took me to overcome the same kinds of things in my life that she has in hers.


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

so..why did YOUleave the house?


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

So you can't have a conversation with a female without backlash from her but she can repeatedly cheat on you and you "get over it". 

Your wife utterly disrespects you and because you have put up with it for so long she feels entitled to treat you worse and worse. 

She doesn't put any effort into the marriage because she doesn't have to, you have let her walk all over you for years. Have you cinsidered meeting with an indivual counselor to figure out why you would put up with such abuse? 

Is this really what you want to teach your children about male/female relationships? Is this how you want your son to be treated by his wife? Is this how you want your daughter to treat her husband?


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm going home tonight. She's working a night shift so I'll see her tomorrow morning. She won't expect me to be there, but I'm going to have a long talk with her telling her that I miss my wife and kids; I'm not leaving; if you still have issues YOU need to leave.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I think she has a drinking problem. She also wants/has sex with other men.

I also think when you order her meals & drinks, it is a form of control. I wouldn't tolerate it.

She sounds like a rebellious teenager not a loyal wife & mother of 3 children.

I hope you can sort this all out with intensive marriage counseling.


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

She doesn't have a drinking problem! She rarely ever drinks. When she's out at the bars, she might have 3 or 4 beers. She never drinks at home.

My buddy said that she has a different idea of the relationship than I do. I wish he would have elaborated on that. I'm trying to figure out exactly what he meant. 

When she told me to leave, she basically didn't want to have anything to do with me. She said "I can't stand to look at you, here you voice, or anything associated that reminds me of you". Man, that was harsh. I just want my family back.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You might want to check out and post on the coping with infidelity thread.

Go home and do not leave. You are letting her walk all over you. Women detest doormats.


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

I don't consider myself a doormat. Hell, I was a pilot in the Air Force. I just try to be the best husband that I can be. I would do anything for my wife. The women she works with have told her that they would love to switch Husbands.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

GuitarDude

You better be home. Your wife has issues.

Next time she says that she wants you to leave. Pack her a bag and show her the door.

By her actions can you honestly feel your wife has been faithful during your marriage???

Some of her actions towards you would be considered red flags for a woman that was cheating oner her husband.

You can sit her down and talk but if i was you I would be checking her emails, texts and FB posts quietly to confirm what she is up to when you are not around.

You should have done this after her weekend away with the GF hanging out with the guy at the hotel.

You should also read "No More Mr. Nice Guy".

But seriously, if she has has been abused in the past she needs to see a good pysychologist.

HM64


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Guitardude,

The way you've handled this wife situation is so full of fail I don't know where to begin. So I'll just say go back to your home and tell her straight up: "either you quit all this BS with dancing with other dudes, meeting up with them in hotel rooms and not being affectionate towards me or you can GTFO of my house". If she refuses to try and work it out, she's been planning on leaving for a long time. (which I think is the case anyway).

I guess I'm saying I wish there was a way to fix this.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

Guitardude.... You have three threads....with a total of 129 posts...subtract your 25 replies....that's 104 posts from people that have been through it all telling you the same thing. Yet, you keep hoping for a different answer. TAM specializes in the unvarnished truth, if you are looking for a fairy tale read the Grimm Brothers.


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