# She's talking to a lawyer...what should I do?



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Okay, my wife and I have been separated for 2 weeks. She says that she has contacted a lawyer and is waiting for him to return her call. 

She really doesn't have the money to file for divorce, if that is what she plans to do. But if she does find a way to file and I want to delay to give us a chance to reconcile, what do I do?

I do not want a costly contested deal. If she is dead set on this, I would rather us work at the details and do it uncontested.

But the catch 22 is that I don't want a divorce and with time I think her mind would change as the fog lifts. 

How do I delay the divorce but at the same time avoid a costly situation if she wants to move forward?


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## Help239 (Oct 20, 2009)

I am already a few weeks ahead of your situation. My wife simply charged it. You cannot change her mind if she is set on this. I didn't even know mine was in contact with a lawyer until she had me served with papers.

My suggestion would be to calmly ask her what she wants and go from there. If you try to convince her to do something else, it will seem like you are trying to manipulate her. Suggest legal separation vs. divorce, and/or counseling.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

You can't delay it much other then fight for the material things. I wouldn't though. did she openly tell you she contacted a lawyer?? Did you talk it out of her?? It matters cause if she out of the blue said I am contacting a lawyer she could be looking for something in you to save this marriage. Something she needs to see. I don't know what that is but its not begging. Maybe she wants to see you fight.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

g and b...

you ask "what should i do?"...i can only tell what i did and you can use that for "what NOT to do."

don't: assume that because she is talking to a lawyer, it is about her desire to divorce. this society is so litigious, someone may have given her advice that she took. something like "get your legal ducks in a row, just in case."

don't: drive yourself crazy running to the mailbox or checking the legal pages of your newspaper looking for a divorce notice. you'll go crazy.

don't: interrogate your wife about her intentions. part of "the new you" has to be the guy who let's go of control, let the water run off your back. "who cares" if she's working on a filing (i know, YOU care!). how much of it do you want to control? because you're setting yourself up for failure by doing that. because you CAN'T control it.

don't: give up. never give up.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

:iagree:

Just because she has contacted a lawyer does not mean divorce is imminent. She could be getting advice on how to proceed and what her rights are. Many attorneys will grant a no charge cursory visit to discuss those things. Actually speaking with a lawyer might even deter her because it has all become real. 

If you are heading to divorce then use the Internet to study divorce in your state. I have know a couple of people who have met with an arbitrator before hand and gotten agreement on everything then contacted a single lawyer to file the paper work. If the split is amicable and you are still on good terms this would seem to me to be a good option. In my opinion opposing lawyers in divorce can do severe damage to the couples long term relationship by "getting all they can" for their respective client and pissing everyone off. That can echo through the relationship especially if the couple is still tied together in raising kids.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

She openly told me (through obvious pain) that she had contacted a lawyer. She said that the lawyer was supposed to get back to her this week so apparently the lawyer was unavailable when she called. 

I simply told her that it was her right to choose if she wanted out of the marriage...and that I had considered it as well. However, with all of the resources at hand I couldn't live with myself if I didn't choose to give it one more try, utilizing marriage counseling, books, etc.

She said that she wasn't sure she could do that....didn't think that was what she wanted. Said she was ready to move on. All of this was said, like I mentioned, in great pain.

We've been down this road before. She has made it to this stage twice in our 12 year marriage and had a change of heart. We might not be so fortunate this time.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Our 8 year old son drove a dagger in our hearts last night when he said, "mommy, when are you going to stop going to grandma's and just stay here? I'm tired of this crap!"

I was thinking to myself, it's going to get worse honey. My wife is hoping they will adjust easily because we are both loving, involved parents.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

She doesn't want to leave but if you guys are doing this in a pattern you need to make changes. Somebody has to step up and make a change that is permanent.. I'm sorry but you guys keep going down this road because of old habits resurfacing. Find out what she sees as the problems and make those changes.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

LH. I agree. We need to rebuild from the ground up with a professional to help us. I'm willing....I've told her that. I have no pride or ego that will get in the way of my family. I'm willing to lay it all on the table and do what is necessary.

At this point, she is not.

Why do you think she doesn't want to leave? She's been gone for 2 weeks, just stops by to get clothes or get the kids. She is definitely conflicted but if she is not willing to work at it or reconcile....then she wants to leave, just reticent to cause all the pain and destruction that is inevitable.

Neither of us were perfect, of course. But we lived a good life and by all accounts had a happy household. She should have come to me and talked about what was bothering her. Look me directly in my eyes until she was sure I grasped what she was feeling. I am a very sensible and rational man. I care very deeply for "my circle" and she has never doubted that.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

GB you obviously don't see what women do when they are hurt. If she is announcing that she is going to contact a lawyer what do you think that means?? She is telling you that she is serious about leaving you. So why tell you?? Cause she wants to see a change.. You have learn to belive a 1/4 of what a woman says and 1/2 of what they do in this state.. Not saying she won't divorce you but she is giving you the opportunity to improve. I know you said a lot of nice things you do and I don't doubt your decent but she has some serious issues with your life together. Maybe some are unrealistic on her part maybe some are valid but facts are she wants out cause she isn' happy. it's said that if most are the problems are your spouse and only a little you that you have to fix the issues with you before helping the other. This is why I said not to focus on her but yourself. Once she sees that she might be more willing to open up to you. I know this from experience..


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

LH, thanks for the response. 

Yes, she has serious issues concerning us...we are separated and heading for possible divorce, I get that. It's really hard to fix anything when she isn't here. What we were missing was the emotional connection. We just stopped taking time for ourselves and nurturing each other. We also didn't understand HOW to meet each other's needs. The Five Languages of Love is something that I hope I can get her to read...it will change her perspective. 

When we have interaction together I am: confident, happy, supportive, understanding, caring. I make sure the house is in order, full of light, nice smelling candle, and vibrant. I am not whiny, depressed, wanting to rehash problems, or sullen. I'm letting her go if she chooses that road. She got a mum, roses, a nice gift, and a personalized card for her birthday this week from me and the boys....then we all went out for a nice dinner that evening where absolutely no one sitting 2 feet from us would ever assume there was any conflct or anything out of order with us...no aruguing (never is) or blaming. 

There are issues that she brings up about some mistakes I've made (when we have a deep talk) that she says she is wounded by. I apologize and admit my mistake and ask for a chance to correct them. I tell her that I am a part of the process and I've never thought that I couldn't learn to be better or meet her needs more effectively.


What else can I do!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Keep doing what you did in your last post. It will take months for her to see your postive actions. Really...how long were you the "other" way. These changed take time to register to your wife.

You are doing great. Hang in there for a long ride.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

CW, I have read about your journey and even referenced it in another post. Thank you for sharing. It has given me strength to fight the good fight and even if we go down the unfortuante path I will have my head held high knowing I gave it my best.

I've always (sounds like a wife of the '50's) tried to make the house pleasant for when she got home. I get home about 30 mintues before her. I always welcome her, always, with a hug and kiss. I try to make sure the boys are not bouncing off the walls, lol. I want our home to be a pleasant atmosphere to shake off all the stress of the day. I usually already have dinner cooking (we eat kinda early-5:30-6pm). All she has to do is change clothes and find a soft place to unwind. I love to cook; the kitchen is mine!

These have always been contious efforts on my part...not because of any problems....even in the good times. 

Although these things are good, like I said, I think at the root we were not speakng each other's love languages. She is more "words of affirmations" and "creative quality time together"...I am more "physical touch and affection".


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

GB I see a growing pattern in women not to let things go.. All I do know is I have seen the road your going down. My wife blamed me for her not growing as a person. For her not having a life.. So your wife held all the issues in. Blamed you for them. She needs to VENT these out before she can heal and move forward. You will be a punching bag for a while. Yet it will end eventually.. You said you didn't nuture the relationship. This is common in almost every marriage. We take each other for granted and treat co-workers better. Why?? Cause we always expect our spouse to be there no matter how bad we treat them. Eventually somebody has enough.. Then demands more.. Women want to feel that they are the most important person in your life. I have a feeling she didn't. Like other things got in the way. You sound like a decent man and father.. I don't think your situation is that bleak though..


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

wheww! she told her mother that she was in no hurry to do anything.

She keeps doing things that make me think there's hope. She wanted us to go out for her birthday (me, her, the kids), she invited me to breakfast the next morning (it was "stop by if you wanna"), she keeps me abreast of where she is and what she is doing, sends me texts and calls daily, she told me that she and the boys are coming to hear me at a speaking engagement this weekend (it's at a restaurant and they can eat lunch too).

With respect to Corpuswife and the positive signals that haven't paid dividends yet (though they might!), how do I respond/react? 

I want to accept these things and reciprocate....but something inside also says to keep a little distance and see if she will chase me. Be mysterious and make her question if she still has that hold on me........thoughts?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

You are right on with keeping the distance. Do not be too available...be busy at some point. I know you want to spend every waking moment with her...but don't. Let her chase. You are the prize!


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm hurting today. She had her first session with a therapist yesterday. I have a session with my counselor tomorrow. Her therapist and my therapist are partners in the same building.

She called me last night to tell me that her therapist also did divorce therapy and worked with adolescents (my boys are 10 and 8). She said that if I wanted to, then I could see her therapist as well and if we went the divorce route it might be a good thing to have the same therapist help us through this (so we wouldn't hate each other, her words) and possibly lend help with boys if necessary

She still is not considering couples therapy. It just hurts to realize that she really is of that mindset...divorce. It's so unnecessary.

The more I've read about love languages, the more I'm sure this is our problem. I've always tried to love her in my love language..."physical touch and affection". I've come to understand that her language is more "words of affirmation".

This leads her to feeling unfulfilled and not understand why. She feels hopeless because we cannot maintain our closeness and these feelings of being unloved keep coming back and she can't explain it. 

I'm hoping that the therapist will agree and recommend something that will get my wife on board.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

It is so painful - but it is early days yet for you guys - you are having some postive signs and that is great - but it is more like a marathon than a sprint - keep your cool, try and keep your energy up and prepare for a long stint...who knows what got your wife to where she is - but my guess is that it has been building for a while and it will be a while in being resoved...


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

I just feel like she's moving farther and farther away. Getting more comfortable with the idea of divorce. 

Overall, I've been a really good husband and an excellent father. We just go up and down too much in our feelings for each other. I feel it too. My love language is Physical Touch....she shows love with Acts of Service and Quality Time (though we don't always hit the mark with quality time because it needs to be more one on one than we've given).

However, I can't be the one at this juncture to share this with her. I'm biased. It won't mean much coming from me. I really hope the counselor can open this door for us. 

After she called me and told me about using her counselor, I guess she could hear the pain in my voice. She texted me later apologizing if she pizzed me off...that was not her intention. I told her I wasn't pizzed...but thanks.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yuo can't go by her words and actions right now. It's going to take time and that depends on her how long that will be. She's right now trying to sort things out. Don't worry about much. Let her spin her wheels..


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I agree that you do need to keep a little distance but be wary that to much distance might drive her away. Like others said earlier the whole announcing to you that you filed for a divorce was more than likely a plea (no matter how horrible) for a change. There obviously needs to be change on both parts but again both parts have to be willing. Your open to counseling, she may not be. My advice would be some distance: be happy, be available if she needs help but don't just jump at her beck and call. And if she does question you about the "distance" then you are in a better position to say well this is what I need from you to make this work... and take it from there. But again don't take yourself "to far" at the moment bc that might just turn around and bite you in the butt


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks LH and Ash.

She didn't file yet, btw. She told her mother that she was going to take her time. She also told my mother that "when ever we get to this point, then he's perfect. He does everything right."

Like I've said, we've been down this road before. When she drops the bomb on me I go into repair mode and concentrate on being the best me I can be. I think she sees this as temporary and not me just re-focusing...which is what I'm doing.

What she is missing is that we needed a professional to help us understand some important aspects of our marriage. Now when we are using one (separately) she isn't looking for joint sessions or to use it as a reconciliation tool.....our timing sucks.\

For my sanity, I can't keep going up and down depending on what she says to me. I don't know how to avoid that. I would have to detach and that seems the opposite of fighting for our marriage to me.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Actually, I think sometimes detaching is a way of fighting for your marriage. By detaching G&B it forces her to "wake up" and look at the situation for what it is. If she loves you, if she wants it to work...she needs to realize what she has done wrong too. And since it seems that she is always the one who says its over, and your alwasy the one is is fixing himself...she's not seeing her part. And in order for the marriage to work, she needs to see her part.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks Ash. She said she tried very hard this year to be the best wife she could be. However, she was trying to be a better housewife...cleaning, laundry, etc...that is Acts of Service....not my love language.

She also tried to eliminate outside distractions and be at home more. I think she was trying to spend more time with me. But, even if we were together I don't think we were doing much one-on-one. just being together as a family doesn't necessarily always nurture the husband/wife dymanic.

She just texted me and asked if I was angry with her. My response..."that's a complicated question. My therapist will earn her money tomorrow!"


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Gb at least she is interested in your opinion! I'd take that as a positive -


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

K-

She is trying to get out of this marriage with the least amount of damage. She does not want me to be angry or hurt....which I think is a novel idea!

I know she is not sleeping well and is miserable by her own admission. But unless her therapist leads her to give it another shot, I don't see her backing up until the deal is done. Her mind is made up at this point something significant will have to happen for her to think we can fix things. She doesn't really trust the things I do as far as what I'm doing to better myself. I really think she thinks I only shape up when it hits the fan. Truth is, "shaping up" is not a big issue to me because I'm not far off the mark as is.

Love languages....it makes sooooo much sense and could be the remedy if she will only give it a shot.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

G&B I think quite a few folk want to get out without hurting the other party -

and also think that friendship is the natural progression after divorce ...hmmmm 

you sound sure that she is sure - but you also think that you may have found the 'magic key'. The truth is that if she doesn't want to give it a go no magic key is going to work - (you know this in your heart) 

we keep on thinking we find something - but they wil deflect every single thing because at the end of the day the last thing they want is to be persuaded by you to stay ....you have to let her go for now...


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

I talked to her tonight when she came over. She talked to a lawyer today for advice. She wants to see IF (there is little IF in her mind I think) we get a divorce, if we can do it amicably.

I told her about the love languages. It seemed to make sense to her, but she said she is not likely interested in taking that chance again. She's this close to the door and doesn't want to backtrack and go through those steps again should it fail.

our only sticking point would be IF we divorce and have joint custody, who is primary caregiver. This may be a problem. We both feel we are the PC here. 

She said she carried them and delivered them. Well guess what, I feed them, make sure they get bathed, brush teeth....all the stuff that matters. ME! I don't want to go down this road much less argue.

I'm just concerned if we had joint custody and she was PC....if she moved, then what?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I've read your thread....it's difficult but you are in the beginning stages. Keep your head held high and do what's best for you. It sounds like you are a strong guy that wants the best for his family.

By the way, you can put in the divorce decree that neither of you can move more than X miles away. I think it's very important to do so for anyone with kids. You gotta stay close or you won't get to see them as much.

Keep that counseling up for you! You will need support...divorce or not.

She sounds like her heart is closed off. My H is the same.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

thanks CW. 

She's detached....but without any anger or bitterness. That suggests that she is moving on to me. There is still a scant hope.....though I can't cling to it. This IS SO UNNECESSARY. I've got to move forward to protect myself. 

If would have had the resources I have now even three months ago we would be in good shape....I really believe that.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Well, I had my first counseling session today! It was kind of blah. I explained our background and my take on everything. She didn't offer much insight.

Gave me homework. "keep a journal of things that you do that either create distance between you and your wife and things that pull her closer".

My wife asked how it went. I said "awesome! she gave me insights into my behavior and personality flaws. she is really sharp!"

LOL. I can't help it. Saying it sucked wouldn't have had any positive impact on her. But saying how excited I was......lol


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

GB, the first session whether by yourself or in couples is just for the counselor to start getting to know you. Just be open and honest with your feelings. It can be tough to discover things about yourself that you had no idea, believe me -- been there crying like a baby in front of my counselor. But I made it through. Like you I wish I had the resources months ago, but that is regret. Neither of us did and it is what it is.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Counselling takes such a long time - like any relationship I guess. They have experience but they are also working blind. At the end of the day they don't know you or your wife....the best they can do is use their professional experience and compare your situation to 'typical' situations....it's like when you have time to read through some of these posts we are all so 'unique' but heck our stories are so similiar!


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Thing is, I don't know how much counseling will benefit me. Maybe I should stick with it. What I need is COUPLES COUNSELING! With my wife. The counselor did ask me near the end what would I be willing to if I had the opportunity to work things out....not sure what she was fishing for here. I just told her that I had no ego or pride that would deter me...I would lay it all on the table gladly.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yep couples counselling with two people equally engaged - without your wife 'there' you have no choice but to work on your self....it's frustrating as hell


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

What you need and what she needs are 2 different things.. Couples counselling only works when BOTH want to work on it. If she goes she will just sit there and confirm why she is doing this.. Best if you do individual now..


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

We have a very weird dyanmic together...kind of like CW's with her H.

We are able to talk frequently and see each other several times per week even with the impending destruction of our relationship. We sat down the other night and talked about her visit with the lawyer...what he said and what he advised. She said she wasn't going to ask for me to give up the house "IF" we end up divorcing. We talked about some painful stuff and some regrets...then we hug and she gets the kids and goes to her mothers. No bitterness or anger or sniping...pain of course. 

While they were at her mothers, her and the kids talked about "what if mommy had her own house and the kids had in effect, two houses". They DID NOT like that. The 8 year old has been asking when mommy is going to come home and STOP THIS! They had a convesation more on those lines...ended up both boys crying, mommy crying, grandma crying.....my W became violently ill she was so upset with the obvious pain of our kids, vomitting several times. 

She's got to see that what she is doing is really unnecessary and there has to be a better solution.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

GreenandBlue said:


> thanks CW.
> 
> She's detached....but without any anger or bitterness. That suggests that she is moving on to me. There is still a scant hope.....though I can't cling to it. This IS SO UNNECESSARY. I've got to move forward to protect myself.
> 
> If would have had the resources I have now even three months ago we would be in good shape....I really believe that.


I struggle with this exact thought all the time. You know what else I think about? I think if I had stumbled across this website when my H and I were still together and was able to talk to ppl as I am now, if that advice would have drawn us together. If the advice I received made me open my eyes, and we took counseling together and we worked on communication. 

And you know what? It might have and I won't ever know and thats the truth. But another truth is this G&B. It wouldn't have worked unless they were willing to work at it too. Sure we could have suggested counseling earlier sure we could have worked on "ouselves" earlier. But just like it takes two to build a marriage it takes to to crumble one as well. And that leaves a bad taste in my mouth bc I know that I caused some of the pain/anger/frustration in my marriage that ultimetly led to its end. But all you can do G&B is to right now work on you. Bc YOU are the only person that YOU have control over. If their our things you feel that you did wrong, fix them. But not for her. Fix it for you. Pinpoint what happened and go over it with the counselor. Fix you. Just like I need to fix me.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks Ash. I know you are going through a rough patch, like me. 

It's almost like I can physically feel myself building a wall around my heart and trying not to "feel". Just focusing on the good things still in my life.

So strange though. She texted me like 5 times last nite about trivial things (non relationship). She was going out of town for work today, and texted me to let me know she got there. WTF is that? Habit?

I guess I can't say much. I took a cell picture of the boys at school ( ate lunch with them for Thxgiving---I know, on Nov12th?). I took it just to send to her to make her day better....I'm Mr. Love Must Be Tough, riggghhhhhht.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

G&B everyone's relationship is different - and everyone handles these things differently - I am glad to hear that you are building a wall around your heart for now - we all need to do that - even I am learning and this has meant taking it off my sleeve where I usually keep it!


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Maybe I've been naive through all of this.

This thought popped into my head last night. Why is she so kind to me, thoughtful, worried about me getting upset, frequent contact...but still seeming to be undeterred about this split?

Her greatest fear is losing her boys. It ties her in knots. She has asked me, carefully mind you, if I would ever try to use her past against her regarding custody should we divorce. She said she is terrified of me trying to do that. She knows I am just as, if not more, capable than her when it comes to parenthood. After talking to the lawyer this week, she asked me about joint custody and then if I was fine with her being the primary caregiver/residence....I was not, of course. But we skirted that argument and agreed to talk about that later.

Could it be, that all of her interactions with me have been driven by her fear of losing the boys? Trying to keep me on the line, without bitterness so that I don't stick it to her should we divorce? She already has told me that she wouldn't fight me for the house.

I cook/feed them, bathe them, nurture them, discipline them, play with them, coach them in sports,......I have never been unfaithful to my wife or put my family at risk (she has...3 times). I don't take Zoloft (she does). When I was on a camping trip with them the first of October, she was on a trip with her chiropractor while concocting this big lie to cover it up. 

Ammunition....I got it.

She knows it. 

I would prefer this to not be true. What do you think?


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

G&B - they are motivated by what matters to them - nothing else - 
so difficult one to answer - is she a good mum? what do you want in terms of custody?


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

She's decent enough...she loves and cares for them. However, when we almost argued the first thing she could come up with was " I carried them and I delivered them"....to which I could have made several inflamatory statements (because it would always be cut and dried if every woman could use this) but I kept quiet. 

I don't think she deserves the right to have the primary residence for them. Frankly, I do more for them than she does and they respect me more, which is why I handle discipline when it's needed. 

One compromise would be Monday-Thursday with one parent....Friday - Sunday with the other.....switching that scenario each month. We would have to stipulate that neither could move farther than an agreed upon distance to make this work....we live in a small town anyway.

I just would rather think that she is interacting with me in this way because of our bond and the feelings she still has for me....not some selfish motive.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

G&B I really don't know...my H and I swap mid-week with our kids....it's hard on kids - but they both said that they don't want to be away from me for more than a few days - personally I find it like hell the days I don't see them ...


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

K- how old are your kids?

I want to do what is best for the kids...I want them in a stable environment with a place that they call home. But I'm not sacrificing everthing so that my wife can benefit from walking out. She's got to pay the piper if she goes through with divorce. 

I haven't been locked into every phase of child reering, been faithful to my wife and family, sacrificed greater job opportunities so that I could be there in the evenings and be able to coach their sports teams, had to listen to "where's mommy?" when she was going through her friends and social scene time a few years ago,.....just to concede that position to her when she's the one betraying our marriage.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

9 & 11


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Well, it all over but the crying, I think. 

She gave me tons of mixed signals this weekend. Went a football game with me and the boys on Friday night. Came back to the house and looked at pictures she took at the game on my computer.

She was back this morning at 9:30Am because she agreed to babysit our neighbors baby. We had a great day. She helped with laundry and helped me put away all of the Halloween stuff. 

I'm thinking, don't read into it....but I can't help it. About 5:30 tonight she asks if I had thought any more about how I would like to do custody of the kids........WTF!!!!

So, I said "why are you here if you are of that mindset?". "If the situation was reversed, I wouldn't be here babysitting and I wouldn't have gotten together last night either." 

She said it was just comfortable and she didn't want to be at her mothers. She agreed, that it was mixing things up. She started getting emotional.

I said if you do not want to reconcile then we don't need to be doing this...because I enjoy it too much and it's sending mixed signals. I would love for this to be real but if am to move on then we can't do this. She agreed and then wanted to talk about putting the wheels of divorce in motion. She's ready to get it done and work on healing, her words. She wants us to discuss everthing...she doesn't want anything from our house....and move towards filing.

We talked for a while....we were both weeping....then hugged and she left. We still care about each other, but she said that she just didn't want this any more. even if I could assure her that in 6 months she would be satisfied and fulfilled in our marriage, she doesn't want that. She's done folks.

I just need to accept it and move on.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

crying isn't done.. crying is emotions and emotions is something. Just maybe not what you want right now or the way you want it. If she wants out let her do all the work..


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

In 6 months she went from wanting to renew our wedding vows to totally against couples counseling or reconciling. She is still going to individual counseling as she went through a lot earlier in life that she needs to work throug. Plus, I'm sure she needs help dealing with our impending divorce.

I don't know, LH. Last night was really the first time that I knew she had no intensions of changing her mind. When she said that if 6 months from now she could be happy and fulfulled in our marriage, she wouldn't take it, I have to conclude that she simply doesn't want to be married. She wants to get out on her own and be independent. 

Her biggest issues with me were control and feeling 'parented' by me. In some relationships, this would be small, fixable flaws. An outsider could look at these problems and say she was WAY overreacting...but she is wounded and I cant' change that. On a 0-10 scale, I would say that any control that I exhibited was maybe a 6....she just doesn't stand up for herself when she feels slighted and let me know what she needs or wants. I fill the void and it feels like I'm controlling. Let me state, we both have outside interests, hobbies, friends.....and I've never worried about her and promote these healthy interests....that's not control.

The control issue for her is A. I try to control what we eat in my household and when she was dieting I stayed on her about not eating some of the crap she put into her system. (she's not overweight by the way...150, 5'5"). B. I handle the finances and budgeting. She gets $200-$250 per month of "do whatever" cash. Credit card for groceries/gas. She doesn't feel like an active participant in budgeting decisions. C. I don't always include her in planning things..vacation, trips, building projects around the house. I might ask her opinion, but in the end I usually defer to my judgement unless she steps up and lets me know something is very important to her....she almost never does this. Just stuffs it down deep and lets if fester.

Anyway, that's beside the point now. She doesn't want to be married if those things were in perfect balance at this point. 

I might as well get everything on paper with her and go see a lawyer. I don't want it.....it's ripping my soul apart. She's the one I validate all life's experiences through. I share everything with her. But she's done.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Lots of time control is masked by the other person failing to "step up" They sit back and are so passive and afraid that it forces the other person to be the parent. My wife was like that. Until your W realizes she has the power to control her own life and make decisions it won't get better. She needs to be on her own to realize that you were not the issue but it was her inability to step up.. You have to go through the motions if she files so just be ready for everything. I don't think your situation is hopless but your going to need to improve yourself to get her to stop and look at herself.. No matter how small your part was..


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks LH.

She also said that she is only like that, not standing up for herself, with me. At work or with friends, she is a dominant personality. With me, she is much more conservative.

That makes it sound like I'm a domineering tyrant that she is afraid of....not even close. I'm easy going, non confrontational and rarely ever prone to knee jerk reactions... One of my greatest strengths is I try to see both sides of situation and don't overreact.

People in my community (small town) are going to think she is nuts for leaving. Seriously. She has it really good, but I can see where she would gain a lot of self worth if she took more control. Sadly, she could do that in our marriage if she wanted and would gladly relinquish some of that control....it can be tiresome and I do it out of necessity in my mind.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

GB we have very close situations and I feel that if she has time she will eventually see it. As long as no other guy is involved. Then it would make it harder for her.. Just let her spin her wheels. The dust will settle eventually.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I agree with LH. You might just have to let her go for the moment in order for her to wake up and see the reality of the situation. Also, if your the one that doesn't want the divorce, you let her do that, let her be the one that files and yes again like LH says if she does you are going to have to go throu the motions but who knows maybe by that time she might see what she is missing and if she doesn't....well than that is just another sign that you don't need her, as much as you think you do right now.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

She wants my help. I told her, that if she is dead set on this that I would rather spend our money furnishing her a place rather than paying a lawyer. I'll work it all out with her (she really doesn't want anything from the house, said she didn't want to change anything for the boys here) if that is what she wants. It's been a month of her being absolutely miserable at her parents house and she has only moved closer to divorce. She's talking calmly and rationally about it all and that suggests to me that she truly does want out and stalling want help. She said she just wants to get through this part so we can all heal. 

The legal divorce is only paper. I don't want it to be expensive if she is willing to make every concession that I ask for. 

I still can't understand how she can go from one extreme to the other in such a short time. Maybe when trying hard didn't give her the results she was hoping for this year she decided that it would never work to her satisfaction. 

Everytime I think that I'm okay, we take another step down that road and it rips me apart. My boys don't deserve this. I can't believe that she wouldn't go through couples counseling and try to fix this for our family. Seems selfish. The time for that (without extreme provocation) was over when we got married and started raising kids. Crazy thing is, she is very family oriented and her sanity would be pushed over the edge without our boys. If I contested and gained custody.....I would fear that she might hurt herself.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

You need to stop worring about her words and actions right now. She is in a different mind set and that mind set will stay as long as you fuel it.. Her actions are normal for her cause shes in panic mode. Just try and be as normal as possible... She has to face it eventually.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

I don't know how I'm fueling anything. I read Homer MacDonald's "Stop your Divorce" several years ago. He taught me how to keep my cool and be the man she fell in love with...without chasing her or trying to pull her back in. If I withdraw, she will pursue. 

I just haven't see that this time. She is so determined to keep moving forward with this. We've already talked about custody specifics and getting her out of parent's house and into something mroe suitable. I discuss these things with her in a calm and matter of fact manner...even though I'm dying inside. 

It's like she wants to show me that she isn't weak and that she can and will do this. When we first had the "we need to talk" moment, I said that I was worried about her. That I didnt' think this would solve her problems and I think insinuated that she was weak.

She brought that up this weekend..."you said that you would be okay but that I was weak and be facing more hardships". She brings those things up as well as anything critical or negative that I've done to her for the past several years (remember, she's Words of Affirmation....naturally, if she feels I'm putting her down it will wound her more in her love language).


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

GB, is that a good book? It is like LH said, she isn't thinking straight. She is taking your statements and turning them around on you, exposing what her true feelings are. She obviously thinks you think she is weak because she read that into your statement. Sounds like low self-esteem. So just keep being as calm and cool as you have been. You can't worry about what she will say because she is going to read into your words what she wants to hear right now anyway it appears.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

GB anytime she interacts with you she is looking to "start a fight" Maybe not litterally but it's like a person addicted to crack.. You are her fix. She is looking for you to make her feel like she is right to be doing it. Not saying you are. I am saying she is looking for something. Eventually she will get you to respond and make her blow up. This is why people say they are on a roller coaster. That's why I say just be there. Calm and cool. Let her go nuts.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

FA- that book was a revelation to me. Since then, I've read other books that used the same principles. Best two books I've read since then are I love you...but I'm not in love with you and also The Five Languages of Love. 

No doubt she has low self esteem. Her skin is much thinner than mine and she is easily injured....but rarely stands up for herself with me and talks about the big issues until it is too late. Happened over and over in the 20 years I've known her.

After we spent all Saturday together and then she sprung the custody question on me, I said "why are you here? we can't do this if you are hell bent on going through with this"....she responded, "well then we need to both sit down with a lawyer I guess and get it done"...........ouch. She didn't say it in an angry or retalilatory tone. That's just the way it was and wonderful day together meant nothing to her in terms of our relationship.

I hope so LH. We rarely try to respond in anger...but I can see there are issues that are fueling this for her that slip out. She has said that she does not want this to turn bitter (for the kids) but occasionally I can feel her anger underneath the cool exterior.

However, it just seems the longer this goes on the more she is sure she is heading in the right direction for her. She hasn't given me anything to say different.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

GB an example of fuel is this..

* I said "why are you here? we can't do this if you are hell bent on going through with this"....*


That is what you did to open up her anger.. That made her defensive and lash out like that. Getting her to say and do things she might not right now..


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

GB - all I can say is I have been exactly where you are with my h.
you are correct about one thing - you can't change her mind at this stage - 
and I was the same - reasonable reasonable about how it would work etc.
why fight it? 
LH is so right - he's a genius with the feulling the fire stuff - 
but honestly it all takes enromous energy - fuelling/not fuelling - some days I wish I would have burnt it all down instead of not..honestly ...we do it this way - because burning it down seems destructive and dumb - but after 1 year of smouldering ashes I am wishing I was more of a crash and burn girl...take care -


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Your wife seems so much like mine.. My wife was very beautiful. You can see in my pictures. She let herself go and got depressed. Which led to further issues. She is passive like your wife. Takes and takes but doesn't say when she is and was hurt. Holds that all in and then after years of taking it she lashes out like this. I have gone through this 2 times now with my wife. We were married very young and I feel the biggest issue. We are PERFECT for each other once my wife learns to accept her responsibility and expresses herself more. Once she becomes a partner in our marriage. If you want take a look at my thread. I bet you see a lot of similar issues our wives had.. Your reacting the same way I did. I am trying to help you..


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

LH, so you're saying that I should continue to just be cool and be the best me I can be. Not question what she wants to do or try to convince her otherwise. Go along and figure out the divorce settlement, file, and move on. And just hope at some point she has a realization? That's basically what I plan to do. I don't have any other choice as I see it.

I'm not sure if she is internally looking for "a fight" so that she can justify her actions (if that is what you were saying). She is trying to avoid as much conflict as possible and push ahead. Or like you said, maybe I should disregard everything she says and just act like it's all swell to me and keep a smile on my face. 

She'll either be relieved that she got through this so easily or mad as hell when she finds out that I've moved on and have a date with a hot young thing.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

GB she wants to justify your actions. To herself and anybody she is talking to.. My wife said the exact same. She isn't "looking" to fight so much just relieve the stress that this is causing but she also needs to justify to herself why she is doing this. 


I see what you want but your actions are still making it worse. Like the bold statement I put. That's fighting words. Your not going to get anything but negative... She has to figure all this out in her head. You can't wish her to figure it out. You can be there for her and show her you are improving and want this to work. 

BTW she will not get through this easy. There is no easy way to detangle your lives.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

thanks for the reponse LH.

What actions of mine are making it worse? I shouldn't have said, "why are you here if you are planning on divorcing in the end?" "Why are you sending me what I perceive as mixed signals if at the end of the day you still don't care to reconcile."

I hope you don't think I'm being sarcastic...that's an honest question.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Yes thats it. You forced a negative response from her. You backed her into a corner and she vented out in anger. It in a sense pushed her further to the edge to divorce. If you want to help avoid anything that might be taken as working on the marriage or anything together. It will only push her closer to the edge.. If she is as timid as my wife is then any positive step even if not openly known should be handled wit kid gloves until she is comfortable.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

My wife is not timid, lol. She is a performer (singer) and can command an audience. At work (public relations) she speaks to groups, leads meetings, and heads large projects.

Her friends say she is different with me. She is more conservative at home. She defers to me, then down the road it's because I'm controlling, lol. I don't know, she readily admits I'm smarter than her and have more education than her and she feels inferior to me. 

Despite her success at work, she also admits doubting herself and she has always had low self esteem....yet she has put herself in the position (by being unfaithful) to have her worst fears come true....people talking about her and smearing her name. 

I'll be supportive and won't push her (I've never done much of that anyway) but methinks it's time for her to learn what Homer McDonald calls TRW...tantalize, reassure, and worry.

Tantalize---put my best and most marketable qualities up front. Be the best me I can be. Confident, intelligent, funny, good looks...all of my best virtues.

Reassure---my actions and attitude should reassure her that I am not going to get too close to her or pursue her.

Worry---worry that she can lose me...perhaps to another woman. SHe needs to feel that I am not a fall back plan in case Plan A doesn't pan out.

I just remembered why she said she chose a lawyer from out of town. We live in a small town and everyone knows us. She is embarrassed to reveal her infidelities to any of the lawyers in town because we know them all! 

Of course I said, honey if I'm not contesting it and we are working together then why would that even need to come up? Still protecting her....


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

TRW huh? Never heard of that but I think that is something you should follow...because in the end following TRW is beneficial not only for perhaps getting your marriage back together, but it is beneficial to perhaps help heal you.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

GB- you said she is different in the marriage that is what I am talking about. What you have said she is like with you. Not in her job. Her friends say she is different I am guessing you notice t also. My wife would hold things in if I hurt her. I get the feeling yours did too.. My wife hated people knowing about us cause she hated looking bad. She would tell me why did I involve family cause it make sit tougher to return. She said at one point you are forcing me to go through with this because they know. It was an embarrasment.. Really stupid in the big picture.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

It 's just curious how a supposed intelligent woman who will not even bad mouth me to her counselor and admits that overall I am very good to her can go through with this.

She knows in God's eyes this is wrong; she knows that in our family's eyes this is wrong; she knows that our community will look down on her for leaving; her friends support her but I can't imagine that they are saying "yes! the grass is greener and it'll be great!"; she knows it will be a struggle financially and the kids will suffer; she knows that she's hurting me and feels great guilt about it; she knows that I'm willing to reconcile but I am willing to move on if necessary; she knows that I'm a great father and have never been abusive in any of my relationships; she knows that I'm funny, intelligent, earn a good living, respected by my peers and the community, talented (I write and I"m still a pretty good athlete), and she said that she still finds me attractive; she knows that I care about her and protect her even in the face of divorce and embarrassment.

I'm positive she knows all of this. She has said as much. Incredulous is the prevailing thought in my mind this morning.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

GB- all things my wife said or went through. Your reacting the same as I did. Look at my forever posts. You will see so much of our lives the same. You can't worry about her actions. She is in panic mode and not thinking of what will be. My wifes family told her the same thing. Her life is going to be harder. Not easier. She eventually saw the light but you need to give her the space to. You can't show her.. BTW: this has nothing to do with intelligence. It's an emotional thing. Were you married young?? Cause her actions are of somebody who was married young and never on her own like my wife. Her biggest fuel was the unknown like she missed out on something. The personal growth..


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

She has never been on her own. Either with parents or me. She was 22 and I was 24 when we were married. Though we dated off and on for 7 years prior. Even when we were apart and broken up during the dating (we once were apart for 1.5 years) there was still a flame alive for each other and a bond that we've had since we started dating (she was 15 and I was 17) that will never be broken.

I think she is missing some personal growth though. Sometimes in our home I felt as though she were a spectator. I would come home and immediately start supper and get the kids on task and she would kick back on the sofa and relax. When it got to be that time, I would get the kids off to bathe (more so as they've gotten older) and make sure they brushed their teeth. She helps with homework some, especially the 8 yr old. But I am the enforcer. I make sure they are on time and on task. When there needs to consequences, she calls on me. 

So yes, I've even admitted to her that it would do wonders for her self worth to do some of the things that she has deferred to me in the past few years. Unfortunately, it has taken this mess and separation is not helping much there because she is at her mothers where everything is taken care of. I think that is one reason she wants to get through this and get her on place...so she can truly be on her own. 

She is an active participant in the kids lives, I don't want to mislead. She is a good mother. But I step up and get things done more consistently....and she thinks that is control?


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

So she called me just a moment ago. She said that my mother called her at her office and was trying to make sure that her co-worker returned some books that she had borrowed. My W said that my mom was acting funny and she guessed that she was angry with her. I plead ignorance and appologized for her. 

My W said that she knew my mom was hurt, she knew that her mom was hurt but we didn't need to worry about any of that....all we needed to focus on was our two boys. Analyze that folks.

And then we went on to casually talk about her finding a place, decorating a room for the boys...she sounded excited.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

You can't analyze her actions.. She is being driven by something else right now.. You just need to exsist and be as loving as possible. The more ying you do the more yang she does. It will escalate.. That is something you don't want to do..


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

LH, it won't escalate if I just talk about it here. I was calm, cool, and happy when we talked. 

I'm just curious. She's obviously avoiding the guilt of letting everyone down. She's at fault and she knows those closest to her are hurting because of it. The things that she holds most dear in her life...family...her family and mine, she wants to push those feelings of guilt aside and move forward before the pain consumes her. 

I almost chuckled when she said "lets not worry about what everyone else says...lets just make sure our boys are okay". Avoiding responsibility on two counts: 1) our boys would be okay if you would work with me 2)there are consequences for your actions and she needs to be prepared to deal with it.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

GB, listen to LH. Your statements are based on logic. Your w isn't thinking logically. Right now it is all just pie in the sky -- this is going to be great, etc. She is thinking purely with emotion which has no logic what so ever. So just try to be you. Look at yourself in the mirror to see what you need to change. You can't change her, but you can change you which can lead to changes in her.

All in all I'd say your doing pretty darn good. A heck of a lot better than I did.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Feelingalone said:


> GB, listen to LH. Your statements are based on logic. Your w isn't thinking logically. Right now it is all just pie in the sky -- this is going to be great, etc. She is thinking purely with emotion which has no logic what so ever. So just try to be you. Look at yourself in the mirror to see what you need to change. You can't change her, but you can change you which can lead to changes in her.
> 
> All in all I'd say your doing pretty darn good. A heck of a lot better than I did.


:iagree:

And Better then I did.. I was a mess and couldnt hide it.. Even my wife pointed out I am makibg it worse and couldnt stop.. Good thing she overlooked that.. :lol:


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks fellas.

I've been down this road before, is all. 1999, separated for month. I was a mess and begged and pleaded.

2005 we were headed in the same direction and felt her withdrawing and I chased and pursued until she nearly left. Then I read McDonald's book and I applied it's principles. It worked. 

Sure, there have been some tears this time around as we have talked through a lot. But overall, I try not to let her see me like that. She knows I prefer to reconcile...I don't need to beat her over the head with that at every stop. I've also told her that I will be okay. 

It's okay to prefer her...but it works against me if I NEED her. Kick that thought around.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

So, would helping her sort out the financials, find a place to live, and working to help her get a the divorce papers in order be totally crazy? 

I know you have said to let her spin her wheels and do all the work herself. But she'll waste thousands of dollars! I guess I should hope that this process could possibly shock her into reality.

If it was me, our financial situation is pretty simple with only one real assett and she isn't fighting over any thing material...I would get the paperwork online, fill it out myself, send it in to a paralegal group and save a ton of money. We also agree on joint custody (legal and physical).

I just feel strange. If I can't stop it from happening, I would rather her do it this way. In my state, it only takes 30 days once the paperwork is filed if it is not contested. I don't want to expedite this thing....but if she is ready to move, do I help?


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

GreenandBlue said:


> So, would helping her sort out the financials, find a place to live, and working to help her get a the divorce papers in order be totally crazy?
> 
> 
> I just feel strange. If I can't stop it from happening, I would rather her do it this way. In my state, it only takes 30 days once the paperwork is filed if it is not contested. I don't want to expedite this thing....but if she is ready to move, do I help?



I guess this is something that you are going to have to decide (sorry there is really no easy answer)

I would say not to go out of your way to expedite the process but I would also say not to drag it out....ie: if you have I dont know appointments together with the lawyer, going over custody, etc. I would say show up and have all your "ducks in a row". However, and maybe this is mean but I wouldn't give her any advice on how to save money or to make it easier or quicker bc in my eyes she is the one that wanted it, so you should be prepared and have all her ducks in a row in a sense.

Again that is just my opinion and something like this it really is ultimately your decision G&B


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Yeah, but we have a joint banking account. So saving money is an issue.

I'm gonna say something you guys might think is way out there. You know, I'm not really in love with this woman. Our relationship is at a different stage and limerance is long gone. I care for her deeply because of the shared history and the memories. I think I am more in love with the stability and comfort of the nuclear family. I want my wife and my kids home together with me and I want to be able to share life's experiences with my partner. 

If we divorce, then the dynamic that gave my life the most meaning is greatly changed. It's not necessarily that my wife is my soul mate (if that is anything more than a cool thing to say), I just want the whole package to complete my life. That comfort zone is what I miss. She has always been a part of that package and our failure/inability to properly feed that part of our relationship has put it all at great risk.

My wife has made enough mistakes that I could have left her long ago. I think the love of family life is what has kept me. I love to come home in the evening and feel whole. Possibly I can do that with another woman at some point, I hope....but the dynamic would be forever changed and I'm not sure if I'll ever get back to my ideal life again should this divorce happen. 

Wow. Is this a strange realization? It's not the woman as much as what she represents in the life that I've worked so hard to build...


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

That makes perfect sense to me...i feel the same, I liked so much the idea of a H, a family. Someone that I could raise the kids with, someone to share everything with and to just be there...when in reality he wasnt...and maybe your wife never was. So yes hold onto that ideal bc it will happen one day for you and I...even better bc we will be smarter


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Ash...I've even told her as much. I told a few weeks ago that maybe all of this was just my illusion. I said that I look into your eyes and I see who I think you are...who I want you to be. But maybe that has been an illusion and you are not the person that I thought you were. 

It hit her like a ton of bricks, way down deep. I hope she still thinks of those words. She feels guilt, I know that much. When she's alone and the boys are with me, I hope she takes time to really feel. I'm a good man....she knows it. Doubt will creep in at some point. One road block is that it has taken extreme effort and will for her to get to this point. She might not be willing to back track even if she regrets her decision. Heck, like I told her, once I detach and decide I'm done, it might not be your decision any longer.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

She probably does think of what you said...but dont feel guilty over what you said...it needed to be said. And one day she regret it but by that time it won't be your problem anymore. People really need to start owning up for their mistakes or not even necessarily their mistakes but their decisions. One day she might regret it...but she wanted the divorce. One day my H will realize what an ass he was and realize he missed out on his kids growing up...but it will be too late. And they are going to be the ones that have to live with that not us...it hurts now but it won't always.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Ash, that's the biggest tragedy in your case. A parent who doesn't understand what happiness and fulfillment are captured in those tender moments of a child growing up. Two people, raising and loving their children, holding tight to each other...when we boil everything in life down, is there really anything else?


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

It does turn my stomach when I really do think about it. Here I am on the forum talking about all the pain that I feel, when I have to children that do not deserve any of this yet without a choice or a say are without a father. I know the questions will come later in their lives...I never thought I would be the woman who would have to deal with those questions.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

GreenandBlue said:


> Ash, that's the biggest tragedy in your case. A parent who doesn't understand what happiness and fulfillment are captured in those tender moments of a child growing up. Two people, raising and loving their children, holding tight to each other...when we boil everything in life down, is there really anything else?


I pretty much thought and still think that there isn't anything better than this - I am still shocked that my H doesn't think the same..


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

knortoh said:


> I pretty much thought and still think that there isn't anything better than this - I am still shocked that my H doesn't think the same..


Because as adults we have so much going on in our lives we lose sight of the priorities of life.. Since time is the problem anything that takes our time is a chore..


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

exactly LH. We get bogged down with all of the distractions of life...and we neglect the glue that holds it all together. 

If I had the guts to, I would eliminate TV from my family's life. We sit in front of a TV far too much and relationships go lacking. Instead of really spending time with one another, we spend time in each other's presence but don't connect on any level of importance. There are many other distractions that seem to add to life but really suck life from us.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

She asked that we schedule some time to talk this Sunday. Since she mentioned this minutes after she told me that a local lawyer that we are friends with agreed to work with us regarding our impending divorce, she likely wants to talk about putting the wheels into motion and moving forward with filing. She's got a one track mind right now and seems to be putting her head down and plowing forward. This divorce is so unnecessary.

Within the past few days we went without contact for 24 hours for the first time in more than 15 years 

I'm doing the no contact thing and hoping it wakes something up in her. She really acts as if she is totally done. Tough to imagine this summer she wanted to renew our vows and seemed totally commited to me. Nothing big has happened that I've seen that would have changed that. If she's got her mind made up though, not much I can do but move on. I need a pick-me-up.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Just go with it... Don't fight it and try not to contact her. She needs tome to think.. It's a long process.. Plus holidays coming up..


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

No contact is worth a try.

I believe the key to no contact is to work on yourself and at least appear happy and content in her presence. That is what i did with my H.

He was in alot of pain during that time as I was his everything...

He just doesn't realize it.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks guys. 

I talked to her last weekend and told her I needed some distance if I was to move on. She was over all day last saturday and went with me and the boys to a high school football game Friday night. I couldn't take the mixed signals and when she brought up custody talk Saturday evening that's when I told her I needed space if we were going through with this. She understood and agreed to stop all of the chit-chat text messages and hanging out. She admitted to just being more comfortable at our house and our neighbor had asked her to babysit saturday...to which I said, why would you agree to do that? Your sister wanted you to go shopping and chose to babysit a 1 yr old and hangout with your extranged husband and kids...she didn't really have an answer for that and apologized. Maybe I'm just a hard habit to break, lol.

It's so weird. When we got in the truck Friday night to go to the game, there was a hip-hop CD and she danced and enjoyed herself all the way to the game. She seemed so happy and genuinely excited. Just like old times. But we always got along and had fun...so this wasn't abnormal except for us being separated, lol.

I might have made a mistake pressing her about all of the contact. But I needed to do it for myself as it's harder on me when I see her or talk to her often. Something needed to change. If she hadn't brought up the custody talk I would have never said pressed her and just enjoyed the time with her. 

She has her 2nd individual counseling session today.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hope everything is going a little easier G&B. You said you put into play the no contact thing last weekend. How much contact has there been btw the two of you since then?


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Very little that didn't have to do with the boys. she hasn't been texting me this week or stopping by. She even went two nights without calling to talk to the boys since I had them this week. I think she was trying to maintain the boundaries that I asked for but I know it hurt to see/talk to them for 2 days...I didn't mean for her to not do that.

LOL, though I just sent her a text to see how last night went. Her and some girlfriends took in the midnight release of New Moon. She doesn't do well on limited sleep and prolly didn't get in til 4AM and in to work at 8:30AM!!! 

Thing is, I never had a problem with her doing those types of things. It's all in good fun and she was so excited about the movie. Control? Not in reality, just her perception. I always let her have her individual interests and encouraged hobbies.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

GB, you are doing great. Its tough when your spouse just keeps moving forward -- I know. But all you can do is let them move forward and find themselves. I would say hope they will come back, but that is what hurts us -- our hope. I just wish they realized they should hope we are still willing when the time comes.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

You're exactly right FA. I've even mentioned that if I cross that bridge emotionally I likely won't be able to go back. But you know, that's where I think she is right now. She has crossed that bridge and she is scared if she looks back or backtracks then she will be right back in the unhappy place again. But I try to look at it like this. The legal divorce is just paperwork. It doesn't stop us from reconnecting down the road.

She's never lived with anyone other than her parents or me. I think part of this is she wants to get out and be on her own.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

It might very well be that GB. I also think pride as something to do with not back tracking. Because if they back track, it is admitting that they were responsible for the issues as well. And right now, they don't want to do that. Pride is bad. A lot my issues were with my own pride now that I look back on it. I don't have the pride any more. It isn't worth it.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

More than pride, I think it is fear. We've been down this road before and she has backtracked. She admitted to me recently that she regretted not following through years ago. She's gotten this far and backing up now would almost be too painful for her at this point. She doesn't want to continue to be discontented in our marriage and she thinks she is finally strong enough to choose a different course. If she would choose to reconcile and have a professional help us, it would help. But that is not what she wants. She wants to be on her own. At some point, she will see her error in thinking. I just believe it will be too late when she comes to that realization. With 2 beautiful boys and 20 years of memories and history, I think the error is obvious considering my devotion to my family. We just needed a hand redirecting our efforts towards each other and some strategies to feed our marriage.

Thanks so much for your words...everyones. It means so much to have people listen and sympathize. I will do me best for myself. If she comes around, great. If not, well.....


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

GB, you've got the right perspective going. You are doing the best you can in this situation.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

Yeah GB you are doing great -


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Me and the wife got together today for a scheduled 'talk'. We talked about separating finances and how to handle physical custody. I was agreeable and happy. I showed her what I had come up with and comforted her by telling he everything would be fine and we would work together for best solution.

My birthday is tommorow. She wants all of us to go out together and eat. In the past month, we have all went out together for her birthday and my 10 year olds birthday even though we were separated. At first, I told her it wasn't necessary and didn't want to do that but she persisted and I said it would be okay.

Her therapist has been helping her work through her feelings associated with the divorce process. She has no intentions of coming back. My 10 year old has been very quiet and hasn't wanted to talk much about this over the past 5 weeks of our separation. My 8 year old has cried and begged mommy to come home. Last night, the 10 year old broke down. He begged her to come back home...saying he couldn't handle it and didn't want to go back to school, didn't want to live (he's very dramatic...he was fine today). She told him she was not coming home....she would have her own home and it would be better than staying at Grandmas where they are now. She was very upset though and called me. It hurts to think that a few months ago she was praising me for being the rock that held our family togther and now she can cause all of this pain and confusion and not consider reconciling.

She wants to come over and help me put up Christmas decorations. This was always a big tradition and something we look forward to as a family. I said okay....should I have said no?

She wants to spend Christmas eve with us and be here on Christmas morning...again, this is of course one of the most important times for a family with young children. Should I be okay with this?

I want her to be with us more than anything. I'm not strong enough to resist. I hold out little hope for us but these times are so special that I want to include her. We are having separate Thanksgivings though.

She has tried to be very kind and considerate of my feelings. I'm sure there is a lot of guilt. But it looks as if we are both moving on. I went out with a woman I just met out for drinks last night. Wife called me when our 10 yr old was crying and upset and I didn't answer the first few times. I told her I was out of town....she asked if I could talk....if I was 'alone'...I was on the way home when she called, so I was alone at that time. They were all upset and would have come to my house if I was there. But she likely is thinking I was out with a woman. In a way I'm pleased that she knows and will have consider that posibility.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

GB...I know how it is when you "get along" but want to read into mixed messages. 

It would be easy for me to do the normal things during the holidays. However, I am choosing to make my own memories at this point. No use in prolonging the inevitable. However, my kids are 15 and 21 years. The 15 year old is still at home. 

With younger children it would be tempting to transition during this time. Keep some of the traditions for this season and maybe changing next. 

My divorce in Jan. 6 for the books. I wish you the best and understand what it like when you don't want the divorce but have no other choice.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

CW-

Thanks for your words. I think I'm to the point where I understand the messages aren't 'mixed' anymore. At least from her standpoint. 

I just enjoy us all together. It's a comfort. I actually think it's a comfort to her too. She isn't standoffish, withdrawn, snippy, or any thing one might think in a situation like this. She acts normal. I mean, no affection (she was never overly affectionate anyway) or lovey-dovey stuff of course. Maybe she's just that good at hiding it. Maybe the way I've handled things allows her to be normal. 

But strangely, when we all went to the football game together last week, there was real joy in her. Excitement to be with us. Then when she spent the next day with us, I did get mixed up and called her out on it when she brought up 'divorce' details. But I'm passed that now. I won't allow myself to hope. Not really. I just have to sturdy myself in preparation for divorce.


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## knortoh (Sep 5, 2009)

I find it really interesting to hear how different folk handle these situations...I really don't get the doing stuff together when they are gone bit...I am beginning to think that comparatively I am very indulgent of my feelings - the pain intensifies for me at these times - I don't get any comfort - my H feels toxic to me now and in his presence I feel physically unwell - I wish I could see this differently - but perhaps it is because my H left once and came back in this way - by just 'doing stuff together'...and then he left again ...???who knows ?

For me now I have to draw the boundaries tight.

It means that my kids miss out on this - 

Just lately my H and I have been exchanging photos of our kids - via email and now this is even hurting me - for me this is what he said no to - all of this.........

I like the way CW says I ma choosing to make my own traditions? at this point - this is the choice I feel that I have to make - I wish that I could feel easier about the whole thing - 

I know my H thinks that I just can't get over myself - can't grow up and put the kids first over this stuff -


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Help me figure this out.

We've been separated for over 5 weeks.
No fighting. No anger. I'm never struck her, pushed her, and very few fighting words have left my lips in 20 years towards her.
I'm happy. I'm confident. I'm a leader. I'm 37 and in good shape. She admits that she still finds me attractive. I'm successful. Well respected in my community. As a father, I'm second to none. I love my wife, she knows this. I'm willing to try anything that I think will benefit us. Open minded. I have a great sense of humor and I'm sociable, with lots of respectable, successful friends. I don't drink or smoke and rarely swear. I have a great house in a great neigbhorhood and we have two awesome boys who are well rounded and generally trouble free. I cook all our meals. I clean the kitchen and the floors. I help keep the living room picked up. I make sure the boys get bathed and dental hygene nightly. I maintain the yards, cut grass, trim shrubbery. I build fences for our property. Built a backyard tree house and a fort in the front yard for the kids. I work part time as a writer for our newspaper and gladly stick that extra money into our account to help pay bills. I manage the finances and we do well. We both have healthy hobbies outside of our marriage that gives us good outlets and opportunities for growth. We have at least 2-3 nice vacations per year and I make sure to plan things so that we have plenty to do and consciously add things into those times to add to the atmosphere and enjoyability for all (at my sacrifice usually). 

I've been 100% faithful...through the good times and the bad. She has not. Two PA that I know of and one beginning of an emotional affair 2 months ago right before we separated. She ended that and says she has no contact with him. I haven't seen anything that would make me think otherwise and she hasn't been out to places unaccounted for. 

We have lots of great memories. We have done so much together as a family and that has been the center of our activities and planning. We have been married for 12.5 years...together for 20 (though we did break up several times while dating). She was my first love...I was her first real love too. We have dated other people along the way though. 

We struggle with maintaining meaningful communication on relationship issues (she doesn't talk about it because I'm hard to talk to, she says). We've missed the boat in understanding love languages to this point. We have lost our emotional connection off and on throughout the relationship, which is when she has strayed.

With all that being said....why is she leaving? Is she really just not happy and doesn't think we can attain love and fulfillment together? She won't even try couples counseling despite currently seeing a LMFT for individual counseling. 

She took me and the boys out to eat last night for my birthday. She wants to help us put up Christmas decorations. She requested that she stay with us on Christmas eve. I don't beg, whine, or ask her to stay. I told her that I preferred to reconcile, but I wouldnt' fight her if she was determined to leave. I let her know I was open to doing whatever was necessary to keep our family together. 

It's not normal for a woman to leave a man with my attributes and strengths in this situation. DOES SHE HAVE SOMEONE WAITING FOR HER? That's the question I keep coming back to. In this last EA just waiting it out? Five weeks...she's ready to file and move so so we can heal. Said even if she knew 100% that couples counseling would help put us in a loving, satisfying marriage in 6 months, she wouldnt' take it. She's looking for places to live (I know she is sick of staying with mom). Every time we talk, it's about the divorce. We talked about it at my birthday dinner last night. We talked about it at a Thanksgiving program at the Primary School this morning. One track mind. Her heart, our boys have begged her to come home and she got so upset with their pain that she was violently ill. All of our parents and family are sick over this and she broke down this week when her daddy was crying over it all. 

All this pressure to do the right thing and she pushes on, more determined than ever to keep the ball rolling in one direction. 

It's got to be another man, right? She might not be actively in a relationship... but her motivation has to be coming from somewhere and they could have an agreement to lay low until the time is right. We get along so well and even still hug regularly that I don't see red flags...but I can't make sense of it any other way. If she was secretly holding out for someone else, would she be able to interact so easily with me and appear to genuinely be at ease in my company?

I'm gonna bounce this off my therpist too. Outside opinions please!


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## Inturmoil (Sep 22, 2009)

If I were to guess G&B I would say yes...you and I sound like the same guy with almost the exact same situation....there is no rhyme or reason for them to leave and be so determined to move forward...I struggled with this for so long and eventually found out that there is someone else that she is planning to move on with...I think that is the case the more I read about everyone's situation on here......everyone is different but they all seem to boil down to some sort of affair. I'm sorry you are going through this....keep doing what's healthy for you and first and foremost keep being there for your kids. Try and have a Happy Thanksgiving!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Given her history...it might very well be another man. Very likely. 

Although, my H is similiar to your wife, in that he is one track minded with the divorce but still wants a connection. He has never had an affair and isn't now. He tells me he loves me, hugs me, and wants to help me. However, over the months, he's only talked about the divorce in our relationship. 

Maybe they want to be our friends? I know my H does with me. I'm not interested at this point.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

*Five weeks...she's ready to file*

Remember I said believe 1/4 of what she says and half of what she does.. That statement speaks a lot. If she was done. No more she would not wait. She would have filed already. It does sound like somebody in the wings. She isn't ready to move to the next step of ending it with you but she might be ready to move to the next step with this guy. To see if something is there. If there isn't a guy should could be testing her individual needs and moving forward with the move out to see if this is what she really wants without leaving the safety of you. My wife tried that part but never got that far cause her family beat it down on her how hard it would be. Just hang i there and do what you need to do for yourself. Let her run circles.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Everything she has done leads me to believe she is ready to take the next step and divorce. She doesn't have the money to pay a lawyer for anything other than advice. If it were as simple as filing paperwork, she would have done it already. 

The time that she requests to be with us...I think it's more for the kids than her attachment to me. She is pleasant and normal with me...doesn't withdraw or pull away. So, I'm curious if she could be that way if her heart were in another man's corner. When she strayed before, she could barely stand to be in my presence. 

She has been wounded in our marriage, don't get me wrong. But the good far outweighs the bad as you can read. 

I feel like I've done everything right up to this point. She has her space. She thinks I'm perfectly willing to divorce and I've actively helped her sort through the particulars. My demeanor tells her that I'm okay with moving forward with my life. 

During the 5 weeks, she has moved progressively in one direction. She has shown no intention of backing up. We won't be going the lawyer route. Submit the paperwork to a paralegal and then file. 

I've adopted the mindset that I'm divorcing her. I'm not the victim.
I just want to know if there is a man in the picture motivating this. That would make me angry.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

I understand how you feel G&B, you want to know what is behind this. You have two options you can ask her flat out or just pretty much follow your gut. Again, as others have said given the history, its very likely. And as others have also said she doesn't seem willing to let go of you yet. In your situation, it seems quite clear that she is leaving a very good man, she may just be waiting to see if any other men measure up before she leaves you.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

The paperwork is just a formality at this point. She's gone.

She has a very tender heart and really is a softie. Very sensitive. Our two boys are precious to her. They are her heart and soul. If she can hurt them, with them crying and begging her to come home, watch her 80 yr old sickly father weeping (it's extremely painful for her to hurt him, no question), and give away all that she is giving away with our house/neighborhood and the comforts of home......I don't think I have a chance if these things haven't shocked her to reality. Apparently it's worth it to her, which is saying something pretty poweful to me. Extremely powerful.

Something very strong is motivating her. To be on her own, out of our marriage...I don't know. Something I can't relate to.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

I've been thinking, as a distraction, I feel the need for the comfort of a woman. Is it wrong if I am honest about my feelings to seek out this comfort....go out on a date, invite a 'friend' over? Not for sex, just company.

I need something or someone to pick my spirits up. I'm not a drinker, but I can see why some self-medicate in these situations. Numb would be good. I need a distraction from my misery. I hate these fluctuations in my mood.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

GB she has a desire to push forward cause she stopped in the past. My wife told me she felt she had to divorce me cause of stopping again would make her look bad.. Your wife might feel that way too..


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## noideato20 (Oct 27, 2009)

Wow! Ive been reading this post and its killin me. My H hasnt even moved out yet and you have been going through this for five weeks! Wow! First of all you sound like an awesome man. I think yes you should have some female company. You have to be one tuff man to go through all of this and still love her. I hope you get some peace over this holiday weekend but you have been an inspiration to me. My H does have someone in the wings and continues to say she has nothing to do with whats happening with us. I say bs. Anyway your story makes me say to myself I can do this and I can do it with style and grace. I want this marriage to work even though im the only one but Its not up to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_m


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

LH, that's definitely a factor...having stopped in the past. But I dont' think it has anything to do with making her look bad.

She just thinks that this is the answer and she hasn't been strong enough to follow through in the past. Having gotten this far, it would take something momumental for her to backtrack now. 

But thats okay. I can only do what I can do. If we divorce, it's just paperwork. we are going the inexpensive paralegal route anyway. If we reconnect down the line, great. 

It just doesn't make sense though not to try couples therapy when you already seeing a LMFT. There's no guarantee that she will be happier apart. But the upside to trying to reconcile and putting it back together is that you spare your children, your husband, yourself, and the rest of the family the damage that will ensue. Now THAT makes sense.

Anyone ever try the Divorce Busting website or books/material?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

GB: I think you have the right attitude. We are similiar in our ways..although I am the wife.

Let her go. Divorce is only paperwork as you said. If she wants back in...you will know. It may be down the line. You may or may not be available. Right on GB. I am following the same montra.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

CW-

I have learned a lot from your posts. Maybe that's why it sounds familiar

This is a great place. You have given me strength to fight the good fight and strive to expect nothing in return. Seriously. Thanks for sharing your trials with us. You never know just how someone else's spirits can be lifted by such a simple act of sharing. There are good people on here. Solid advice from those with 1st hand experience. Wisdom abounds!

Happy Thanksgiving. And thanks!


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

No matter what GB. This life has many good things to live for...whether our spouses choose to be in our lives or not.

It has been a wondeful support for me as well. We are all hurting and need each other. I have learned this, over the last year, when I was fiercely independent and felt I'd never need outsiders. I do. Lesson learned.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

I asked about the Divorce Busting program above. I ordered the book this week. 

Has anyone had any success with this?

Also, should this divorce go through and we go on with our lives, I have a question about dating. For some reason I feel motivated to start dating before she does. It would be a blow to my self esteem for her to be out dating other men and me being stuck alone (I mean, all my friends are married...."get out/and get a life" are great but it's easier when I have a partner to do that with).

I don't mean I'm worried long term that I'll be alone. I just feel the need for my self esteem to move on quicker than her in this area. I feel it would be almost justice if she had to process me being a "free agent" and drawing interest from other women. 

I know that it is silly and speaks to low self esteem on my part...but it's the way I feel. It would be good for my ego. 

Thoughts?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

GB: I know how you feel. It would be easy short term but more difficult long term. 

Everything that I heard or I've been told is that rebound relationship don't work. I know you don't want a serious relationship but sometimes be careful what you ask for...you may end up with one unexpectedly. What if you fall for a person? I've also read and been told by many people that when the rebound relationship doesn't work it feels WORSE than the marriage breakup!

It would be a distraction but I would severe the marriage before I went forward. Just lessens complications overall. 

This is purely my personal opinion. Of course, you may feel different.


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## noideato20 (Oct 27, 2009)

Greenandblue I got the divorce busting book during the first two weeks before I found out about the ow. It was full of alot of helpful advice and alot of it has to do with working on yourself ect. Just like what most people tell you on these posts. It will be good for you to read. In my case i wont be busting anything. His mind is made up no use for couseling or anything. As far as dating goes that would be a no go for me because I take my vows serious even if he doesnt. But thats an individual choice. I think at this point your probably just looking for a distraction from all the trauma and drama.....Totally understandable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

The thing is, I've been doing those 'recommended' divorce busting things from day one.

I don't beg, whine, argue, criticize, pursue. I act 'as if' when I'm around her. I rarely contact her unless it is about the kids. In the beginning, I tried to persuade her to consider reconciliation...but still let her know that i wouldn't fight it if this was what she wanted.

When she comes by I'm very upbeat, confident, happy, act as if I'm moving right along with life with no problem.

It's been 6 weeks since we separated. The way we interact, you would either think had no problems whatsoever or that we had been divorced for 10 years. It goes that smoothly. No friction or tension. She came over yesteday and helped me put up Christmas decorations. That would be a good sign for most people. But we calmly talk about how next year when she has her own place which ornaments she would like to take with her. We laugh, joke, and there are no awkward moments. 

Isn't this strange? It is an effort for me. It just seems like she is completely done emotionally and has moved on and can't be tempted to look back. I mean, there was no abuse or addiction (though problems between us which contributed to her infidelity). By all accounts we lived a full, rich life together and our family is great. Only months ago she wants to renew wedding vows and praises me for being the rock to hold everything together. She's a typical 'walk-away-wife'.

I just don't get it. There has to be another man. Something motivating her here. But if there were, wouldn't there be some tension or palpable awkardness? Something for me to pick up on? 

The only other motivation that I can come up with is she wants to be on her on and find her self worth. She has never been on her on. She lived with parents til we got married (she was 22/ me 24). Now she's 35 and has still been dependent on me or her mother for all this time. I can see where she needs to find her independence. At work she is a go-getter and has hobbies which require she be a leader with responsibility and charisma. You would think that this outlet would give her that balance...if that is the problem.?????????????????


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Number 1 you are analyzing WAY to much. Her actions are not going to be of the person you knew. Stop looking at this from a sane point of view. She isn't. If you look in my post you will see it's identical. My wife went through not one but two mid-life crisises. She was 16 when we met. Engaged at 18 and married at 20. We lived with her mom until 1 month prior to marriage. We bought a condo then. My wife has been dependant on me since we met. Never once been on her own. She battled who she was. She told me so many times I don't know who I am. Normal for a relationship to do that. You lose yourself into the marriage. Now if you had discovered yourself and lose yourself in the marriage thats ok. You have a baseline but if you didn't grow first you will eventually wonder. This is why my wife left. That along with me not loving her. That had to do with her pulling back.. Now after we got back together we discussed her drive and all the stuff we went through was about trying to justify her actions. She knew she was doing wrong but couldn't take responsibility. 

As for your wife It is possible her motivation IS to be on her own and discover who she is. What I did was do the things I needed to do to improve the marriage FIRST. I got the ball rolling FIRST. My wife always blamed me for making her make the first move. Second I stayed straight on course from day one. Reassuring her we can do this together and work out time for you to express who you are and work on free time. Now I remind her about that cause she goes out a lot. Most of the times with me but neverless it's out without the kids. It will take time.. If she does have somebody else in the wings it will take longer. I hope not... Good Luck and please try and stop dwelling on it. It's going to make you crazy.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks LH.

Actually, I'm doing okay. I just get on here from time to time to bounce my thoughts off of you guys. I don't dwell on it too much or let it bring me down that often.

You are right about one thing. She always made the first move when I relationship was in trouble. She has always been the one to say "we need to talk" . Problem is, those talks were bombs and not pellets...she/we always seem to wait too long to address the problems. 

But I can't persuade her to give us a try with words. I won't even try. I'm just trying to 'draw' her back in with all of my good qualities. Show her I can praise her for small things too. She always needed that, I didn't always give it to her. Let my self confidence and joy shine through. I'm going back to the gym too. I just need to let her see me in the best possible light....and I've been doing that for 6 weeks. Few if any backslides. 

I can move on if need be. I just want to give us every chance because of our boys. They dont deserve to have to split up their lives and time...for the rest of our lives. And our marriage is salvageable if she gives it a chance. I've got just as many gripes as she does (maybe more) but my perspective is just different and I don't have as a big a self-esteem problem as she does.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Speaking of self esteem, she made this comment to me and to her therapist: "I feel like the only place that I'm any good is in the bedroom. That's the only place I feel appreciated....like that's all I'm good for".

I know she has sexual hangups. She is very inhibited with me...but can be a very sexual person when she is turned on. LOL, she 's really not that great in bed either...but I would never tell her that. I'm not star material either. When we had sex, she made an effort and was open to different positions and oral. Low drive though. Its strange that she should feel like a 'piece of meat' when we only had sex like 3-5 times per month. I initiated 90% of the time and she has turned me away many many times. I eventually learned that if I wanted sex and asked for it on Tuesday night...I might get turned down but she would be ready on Wednesday night. Like it took a day to prepare herself to be a willing partner. Not all the time....but a lot.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

GB- mine said same to me. She felt like a piece of meat cause thats the only time I wanted her.. She was right in a way cause the fact she didnt do much else I tried to get the one thing she could do for me. My wife is inexperienced with sex too. She was afraid about acting a certain way. I tried to reassure her its fine but that didn't help. 

Your wife probably feels like a piece of meat cause thats probably the only time you should affection to her. That is she had sex with you. Hence the piece of meat. Now you probably held back cause you were mad at her. Same as my situation. The only way to break the cycle is for you to make the changes first. Then maybe she would see them. I have a feeling your wife isn't seeing anybody but if she was like mine I bet she is talking to a few people and mostly men. Probably to get an idea of who she is and if she is "normal".


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

LH-

I'm a phyiscal touch and affection type of guy. That's my love language. Not just sex. Holding, hugging, touching, kisses...any kind of touch. 

I did those things for her. But that isn't her love language. She is more words of affirmation and quality time. I didn't understand. 

But some times she did say that she would rather lie in bed together and just hold each other...no sex. I really didn't get it. That's not something that I did often. And conversely, she was afraid to show me much physical affection because she said I would expect sex. We just didn't communicate enough about these things and a marriage therapist would have helped tremendously. 

Funny that she feels like a piece of meat but she's the one who has went outside the marriage on more than one occasion. She hasn't helped her self at all. 

Tough night tonight. My boys were both crying because they missed mommy. They were with her this weekend, but we are home now and everything they want to do reminds them of her and things she used to do with us.....playing board games, watching certain TV shows together....we really did everrything together as a family.

My tears flowed too because of their pain. I could feel the anger bubblling up too. She should be horse-whipped for putting them through this. They deserve to have their family whole and working together towards our happiness. I hope she realizes it at some point and for their sake sees that I am worth it....we are worth it....our family deserves it.


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## lost1234 (Aug 24, 2009)

gandb, lh

you guys are on the same end as i am...opposite sexes!

lh, I hope you are doing well! gandb, try not to bury yourself in thoughts and analyzing...i did and now i am trying nc, going dark...whichever is preferred. its the hardest thing ever! i feel for you!


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Lost-

Nc/dark is easier for me. The more I see her, the harder it is. I do miss her and sharing everything with her though. She is the first one I want to tell something if it is important. I want to share the funny stuff with her, the sad stuff. I still like I'm her protector too.

She called tonight about 10:30pm....which is late with two boys. She sounded upset and had been crying. She asked if the boys were still awake...it was unusual but they were. She talked to them and said her good nights. Sounded like she was just having an emotional night. I told her about them getting upset earlier....I could tell it hurt her. I told her they were okay and after a while they had been fine. Even though I want her to feel guilt and continue to experience the reality of her decision, I still feell like protecting her and comforting her. In the end, I simply told her everything would be okay and that the boys were fine....I wished her a good night and hoped she slept well.

But like I said, it's easier for me going forward to have little contact. That lets me know that I can move on. I don't have continuous aching feeling in the pit of my stomach like I've had in the past when we were having big trouble. I want her to be my wife and help put everything together the way it should be......but if not, I'm closer to moving on emotionally than I ever have been.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

GB I did the same.. I showed my wife affection but it led to sex most times. What I ment about pulling back was the little stuff like the hugs and kisses that DIDN'T lead to sex. When your happy and connected you do so much just cause you love them. Think back during the dating years.. 

Yet I see your wife acting like mine in the first time I did this. She was a little wiser second time.. My wife started talking to a realtor and seeing townhomes before our house was sold. The holidays are really strong. Your wife is going to struggle everyday.. Tomorrow is Dec... 

If you want this hang on. As long as she doesn't have an affair. She is working on a number of things from what you said. Her self-esteem. Her individuality. Most likely also who she is as a person. The less contact the better...


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

GB:

It seems that you are living my life but you are the opposite sex. 

I know you've read my thread so I won't go into details. 

However, I feel as you do (at times) that there HAS to be OM/OW. I've seen no indication though. He wears his wedding band faithfully even after 4 months of separation and our final court date looming Jan. 6. I don't believe he's been unfaithful and either does anyone else.

Then, I let this negativety creep into my head. I think "he must REALLY dislike our marriage to put himself and his kids through this pain. He must really have been unhappy to toss our 25 year marriage away to go and be alone." Who does that? 

I think, for my husband, it depression and finding himself which is probably a midlife thing. Plus, in addition our lives had turned difficult with a wayward son, financial markets dropped, etc. 
He couldn't do anything about the other stuff but he could do something about his marriage.

Not sure if these are similiar between your wife and my h.

The fact is...he isn't any happier than when he left. He is doing the same things as he did before. He would argue that point, afterall, he would look stupid to admit the truth.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

CW-

Yep. I say the same things. She must really be terribly unhappy to put everyone through this. She knows she is the looked on as the "bad one" in all of this. She said that from the beginning. And with low self esteem this really weighs on her. But I know she feels guilty. What she is doing is affecting the boys 10/8 and she has really had to deal with that realization a lot lately. I'm doing everything I can to let her see I'm worth the work it would take to get back on track. 

But she must really be unhappy to put us through all of this. I just can't believe she would be so committed this summer (her words) to this now.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

G&B,

Its sometimes difficult to read your thread for a few reasons. First of you sound like an amazing man (yes, with some flaws), and I can read the pain sometimes in your words. You must be confused, as I am for you. You want answers, black and white. However I think you have a situation that is stuck in the gray, only because you don't understand (maybe some of it but not all) why this happened. And I feel for your boys and I feel for you for having to witness them breaking down. But it will happen again. So here is my advice. I know you want to give every oppurtunity for your marriage to work and I say go with that thought. But tuck it away somewhere. Put it in a spot that as time goes on it gets smaller and smaller and smaller until it just disappears. Hold onto the thought but move forward if that makes sense.

I want what is best to work for you G&B I really do.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Ash-

Excellent advice. That's really what I've done and the reason that I'm not an emotional mess. My therapist said that it is obvious that I operate more on intellect while my wife operates on emotion.

I do waver back in forth in my thread, no doubt. I'm working towards being strong and moving on if need be...but I do hold out hope for all of our sake that at some point things will change. I am trying to keep it tucked away and protected. That's how I function on a daily basis. But there are times when I'm down of course and I need the understanding and advice that is so great here!

Your advice is very good though and I appreciate it. Very thoughtful and insightful for someone of your tender age! 

I'm detached somewhat at this point, thank goodness. I don't feel that ache in the pit of my stomach. That's actually the good part of limited contact. Her presence makes me want her more.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

GB: You are doing a terrific job of detaching. Still wanting your marriage but not being needy. 

You are right the limited contact allows you to breathe and gain peace. 

I don't know how to be single but I am slowly making my way. We have no choice.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

That's right CW. In Homer McDonald's book "Stop Your Divorce", he says that we should understand that we only 'prefer' the object of our desire...we don't 'need' them. There is a lot of truth to that.

Also, I use a lot of positive self talk. "I am not the victim" is a favorite of mine. I also try to look at this as an opportunity, one way or the other, to find true happiness in my love life. At times, I'm almost excited at the prospect of experiencing the love that I deserve. It might not be with my wife. But surely, there is love in my future.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

G&B,
I think in a way your wife is doing you a kindness. I interpret her comments about her love languages and her comments about affection differently then perhaps others do.

This was not a failure on your part to spend quality time with her. Nor was it a lack of you telling her you love her. 

Somewhere along the way the sometimes complex chemistry of attraction broke down on her side. This is why she had affairs. This is why affection made her anxious - because affection might lead to sex which she didn't want. This does not mean you aren't attractive. It simply means that the process of marriage killed her passion for you. This is an amazingly common outcome. Some women are able to have sex with a man they love - but have lost desire for without difficulty. Others find it a true hardship. Either way it is obvious from your self description that you will have LOTS of romantic options. 

I am actually rooting for her to stay the course because from what she has said and done - she can't love you the way a wife is supposed to love her husband. And for what it is worth she deeply loves the non-sexual / non-husband part of you - that is obvious as well. 







GreenandBlue said:


> That's right CW. In Homer McDonald's book "Stop Your Divorce", he says that we should understand that we only 'prefer' the object of our desire...we don't 'need' them. There is a lot of truth to that.
> 
> Also, I use a lot of positive self talk. "I am not the victim" is a favorite of mine. I also try to look at this as an opportunity, one way or the other, to find true happiness in my love life. At times, I'm almost excited at the prospect of experiencing the love that I deserve. It might not be with my wife. But surely, there is love in my future.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

GB: I've read Homer's book as well. I've tried to follow his advice which is very similiar to others I've read as well. The part that I've fallen short is the "dating others" portion. I just can't seem to step off the path. It's disloyal since I am still married. I have this "vow" that I remain loyal to, yet for how long? My divorce is Jan. 6...Yet, my marriage will be gone on that date and obviously my H doesn't feel the same.

I feel, like you, at times wanting another person to share things. However, I know that once dating, fresh out of a divorce I will compare others to him. I believe he will do the same. I'm a pretty good woman and I will be difficult to avoid my comparison.

We both seem similiar in our strengths. Still WILLING to save our marriage but unable. Yet, we see the option of moving on.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Mem-

No doubt, our love life had lost a lot of passion and zest. She did enjoy sex once we were engaged in the act. She just had trouble being in the mood. I guess familiarity can have that affect. 

And I disagree a little on your last point. Loving the nonsexual part of me is a deeply important aspect. I think that with help, we could re-establish the parts to our emotional connection (for a woman, this is the part that can fuel the passion). Sure, the limerance of a new relationship would be great for her (and for me) but once that subsides I think it will be unlikely that she'll find someone that can compete with me in all the other aspects of life. But that is her journey. And I wish those were her comments on love languages. I had to explain that to her. If she bought into that , it might give us chance. 

CW-

That is the hard part-comparison shopping! No really, my wife is attractive, feminine, talented, witty, compassionate, etc....it will be hard when some other woman falls short in one of those areas to respect those differences and not discredit her for them. My wife has her faults, but I chose her for a reason and remain attracted to her for those reasons. But I guess that's part of the baggage we all take with us when one relationship crumbles.

She will have a hard time if it comes to me dating. She's always been very jealous of me even appearing to enjoy myself around other women. The woman can be 250 lbs and she would still make comments that reveal her insecurities. She recently said that if I had been the one to be unfaithful, she didn't think she could have handled it. 

One reason I lean towards no OM involved right now is because she has let herself go since our separation. She has actually gained some weight (not much). She isn't working out or dressing differently. I haven't detected any changes for the better or efforts in appearance that would suggest a new love. She just appears freed up to do as she wishes and her mean old husband can't coach her or parent her or control her like she felt I was doing. She's so undisciplined in some aspects of her life, she needed a coach! But that shouldn't have been me, I guess.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

In regards to the whole comparison shopping CW and FA, it will happen. If/when you both start to date again certain things that yur "date" will do that will remind you of your W/H that will make you sad, drive you nuts, or to kill the other person! But the biggest thing in that is probably bc everything is still fresh. When you start to date in the beginning it will be hard bc you will be thinking of the other half of you that is no longer there. 

This is simply other area of your "new" life that time will have to heal.

The biggest thing, and this is an area I need to work on, was brought up by LH on my thread. Just to be careful not to take out anything on this new person. They didn't hurt you, your spouse did. And on the other end a lot of you on here had very long marriages and were married to good men/woman. That in a sense will be even harder. So just take small steps.

I know you both probably don't/aren't dating yet but just keep all this in the back of your mind for if and when you do.

(BTW, CW and G&B, I know you both will have plenty of dates, you both sound like great catches!!)


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

This is so new for everybody and it's so hard to let the hurt feelings go.. I would love to wave a magic wand and put them aside when I could. 


I would be so scared to date again. I only known my wife since I was 20. I haven't had an "ADULT" relationship. It would scare the hell out of me. My wife still interact like we are kids. It's funny with the groping and the little kisses. I see we are more affectionate in public then most relationships that are about 20 years old. I take pride in that. Just that special bond we have.. That I doubt she would find again.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Me either LH. I've date my H since 15 and married at 19. I've never been single as an adult. Cheers to me!


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

I don't have access to the cell phone activity since the account is in her name. However, I noticed that on my bank account the monthly bill was more than doubled (from $160-$323). Now, in the past 6 weeks we did add her father to our plan which now has 4 phones to it (us and both her parents). She warned me a couple of weeks ago that the bill was going to be this much and attributed it to adding her dad and other charges that went along with updating the plan.

I don't know if I'm buying this. I kind of figure that the charges are in large part due to her texting and calling out of service plan. 

She told me weeks ago that there was nothing going on any longer between her and the OM that she got close to (when this whole thing kicked off). She said that she severed all ties to him and was not in contact with him. She doesn't show any outward signs of currently cheating. In fact, she 's let herself go somewhat. Taking in tons of calories and not exercising, clothes, appearance, etc.

However, if she has been talking to him and has deceived me....if she has been involved all this time and not really given the separation or counseling a chance...if she has (in my mind) let down the only people who loved her faithfully and fully and protected her from the rumors and innuendo that she brought on over the years....only to have her stomp on her husband and children's lives.........

What do I do? Emotionally, I'm done. If this is what it is....do I do anything differently in terms of anger or retribution with an impending divorce? If this is the case, I feel as if our chance was sabotaged by a weak, lying, cheating, manipulative, two-faced, piece of sht (why would I want her, right?). Do I just move on or what can I do to hold her accountable?

I don't know. I just need someone to give me advice on how to react. My first thoughts are to tell her what I think of her and let her know that the nice, loving, thoughtful, protective person that used to be me is no more as far as she is concerned....bridge burned.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Move on GB. Making her "acountable" will waste more of your precious time and energy. The end results is ugly and not worth any of the damage.

You will look like the bad guy then. Two wrongs don't make it right-yada yada yada. You get it. 

You will come out on top ,dealing with your divorce, as a man of integrity and class.


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## Ash22 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hey G&B

Just wanted to check in and see how things are going with you.


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