# 3 months dating, no physical intimacy



## Zoomzoom

Older gentleman (52), younger me (37). Here lies the problem. Limited texts. Typically good morning, good night, and to confirm a date. We've kissed and made out. It's been 3 months with many dates. We basically meet, have lots of fun together, good, deep conversation, and kiss goodbye. No phone calls between dates. I typically feel like we're strangers again each time we meet.

I arrange for all dates...he stopped giving ideas. He'll simply ask what I have in mind each time we meet. He pays for all dates, and declines my offer to pay.

He was very, very enthusiastic during the initial dates, but he's cooled way off. I've tried to initiate more affection, hand holding, etc but I sense he's holding back.

Is it because of the lack of sex?? We have lots of fun together, but I'm now ready for more physically. He always asks me out and takes me places. He's a gentleman. 

I don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't appear to "want" me. I'm so attracted to him physically, he tells me I'm so attractive, and the kisses are so passionate. Then nothing.

Initially I wanted to wait, but now I'm ready.


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## bobert

Zoomzoom said:


> Initially I wanted to wait, but now I'm ready.


Did he know that you wanted to wait? And if so (or if he picked up that vibe), have you told him you're ready now?


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## Zoomzoom

I had been separated for 4 years when we met. My divorce wasn't final when we met, he agreed that we should wait. The divorce got final a month after we met.


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## DownByTheRiver

Zoomzoom said:


> Older gentleman (52), younger me (37). Here lies the problem. Limited texts. Typically good morning, good night, and to confirm a date. We've kissed and made out. It's been 3 months with many dates. We basically meet, have lots of fun together, good, deep conversation, and kiss goodbye. No phone calls between dates. I typically feel like we're strangers again each time we meet.
> 
> I arrange for all dates...he stopped giving ideas. He'll simply ask what I have in mind each time we meet. He pays for all dates, and declines my offer to pay.
> 
> He was very, very enthusiastic during the initial dates, but he's cooled way off. I've tried to initiate more affection, hand holding, etc but I sense he's holding back.
> 
> Is it because of the lack of sex?? We have lots of fun together, but I'm now ready for more physically. He always asks me out and takes me places. He's a gentleman.
> 
> I don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't appear to "want" me. I'm so attracted to him physically, he tells me I'm so attractive, and the kisses are so passionate. Then nothing.
> 
> Initially I wanted to wait, but now I'm ready.


It could be for different reasons. Maybe he can't respect a woman who has sex before marriage or something. 

Maybe he has ED. 

Maybe he's gay but chooses not to lead that lifestyle. 

He could even be married. 

But just remember that this is who he is and that he's not likely to change especially at his age. So what you see is what you get. It doesn't seem to be what you want.


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## bobert

Zoomzoom said:


> I had been separated for 4 years when we met. My divorce wasn't final when we met, he agreed that we should wait. The divorce got final a month after we met.


But have you talked about it?


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## Zoomzoom

DownByTheRiver said:


> It could be for different reasons. Maybe he can't respect a woman who has sex before marriage or something.
> 
> Maybe he has ED.
> 
> Maybe he's gay but chooses not to lead that lifestyle.
> 
> He could even be married.
> 
> But just remember that this is who he is and that he's not likely to change especially at his age. So what you see is what you get. It doesn't seem to be what you want.


 He's not married (at least I don't think he is). Been a widower for 2 years.


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## Zoomzoom

bobert said:


> But have you talked about it?


 And say what? 😃Beg him to 'do me'? Shouldn't he initiate more? But no, we haven't talked about it.


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## bobert

Zoomzoom said:


> And say what? 😃Beg him to 'do me'? Shouldn't he initiate more? But no, we haven't talked about it.


Relationships require communication. You need to speak up if there is something you are unhappy about. Men are not mindreaders. 

Have YOU initiated? Just grabbed his junk and gone for it while making out? Women can initiate as well... Maybe he wants you to initiate? Maybe he's trying to be respectful? Maybe he figures sex isn't very important to you because you were sexless for (I'm assuming) 4+ years and haven't made a move with him. And yes, there could be other issues at play (ED, no/low drive, etc.).


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## Zoomzoom

bobert said:


> Relationships require communication. You need to speak up if there is something you are unhappy about. Men are not mindreaders.
> 
> Have YOU initiated? Just grabbed his junk and gone for it while making out? Women can initiate as well... Maybe he wants you to initiate? Maybe he's trying to be respectful? Maybe he figures sex isn't very important to you because you were sexless for (I'm assuming) 4+ years and haven't made a move with him. And yes, there could be other issues at play (ED, no/low drive, etc.).


Grab his junk!!!??? Here's the thing, I want him to want me. My marriage was very sexual, and I've been alone for 4years. I've given him several pointers, initiated touching, etc. Then he kisses my forehead and says goodbye.


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## DownByTheRiver

Zoomzoom said:


> Grab his junk!!!??? Here's the thing, I want him to want me. My marriage was very sexual, and I've been alone for 4years. I've given him several pointers, initiated touching, etc. Then he kisses my forehead and says goodbye.


Definitely do not grab his junk. You just have to realize he isn't who you want and cut him loose. Well you know he might not be after a woman for the usual reasons and may just want one for housekeeping or cooking or babysitting or to make other people think he's normal. He's not who you want so just face it.


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## frusdil

Zoomzoom said:


> And say what? 😃Beg him to 'do me'? Shouldn't he initiate more? But no, we haven't talked about it.


Who said anything about begging? Why can't you just start a conversation about it?


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## bobert

Zoomzoom said:


> Grab his junk!!!??? Here's the thing, I want him to want me. My marriage was very sexual, and I've been alone for 4years. I've given him several pointers, initiated touching, etc. Then he kisses my forehead and says goodbye.


If you are unwilling to have a conversation with him and unwilling to try taking the lead, then you have two options: Assume that he doesn't want you sexually and things will never change, or leave (with your communication problems untouched). 

He could very well have issues like ED, but maybe TALKING about that would help figure it out and help him feel more comfortable. No talking = nothing changes.


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## DownByTheRiver

I bet anything if you do keep initiating, he's going to judge you for being loose or something.


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## Zoomzoom

bobert said:


> If you are unwilling to have a conversation with him and unwilling to try taking the lead, then you have two options: Assume that he doesn't want you sexually and things will never change, or leave (with your communication problems untouched).
> 
> He could very well have issues like ED, but maybe TALKING about that would help figure it out and help him feel more comfortable. No talking = nothing changes.


I get that. But...Shouldn't this be the honeymoon period where we're crazy and can't get enough of each other? I'm reluctant to be talking about issues at the very beginning of it.


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## jlg07

Why can't you just flat out ask him: hey, we've been together a few times and ive noticed you haven't really tried anything sexual with me. It's there a particular reason why? Do you not find me sexy? Is there something else going on? 

If you can't have a conversation like this, it doesn't bode well for the future relationship.


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## Zoomzoom

frusdil said:


> Who said anything about begging? Why can't you just start a conversation about it?


I just thought we'd sort of fall into each other's arms and make passionate love. That's only in the movies, right?


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## Zoomzoom

DownByTheRiver said:


> I bet anything if you do keep initiating, he's going to judge you for being loose or something.


He's extremely religious, so you might be right.


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## Diana7

You have to begin to talk about it or how will you know? 
Not everyone wants sex early in a relationship but unless you talk about it you will never know.


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## bobert

Zoomzoom said:


> I get that. But...Shouldn't this be the honeymoon period where we're crazy and can't get enough of each other? I'm reluctant to be talking about issues at the very beginning of it.


I would say that is often how the beginning of a relationship goes, but not always and please don't base your expectations on movies. I think it's a good idea to bring up issues early on for a few reasons. 1) They can be dealt with sooner, 2) If you are incompatible you won't waste any more time, and 3) It helps set the tone and expectations for the rest of the relationship.


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## Diana7

Zoomzoom said:


> He's extremely religious, so you might be right.


Ok so if he a Christian then he may not believe in sex outside marriage but unless you talk you wo itnt know.


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## bobert

Zoomzoom said:


> He's extremely religious, so you might be right.


So, does he even want to have sex without being married? Some religious folks won't even kiss before marriage, let alone sex or foreplay. Is he okay with having sex with another woman (assuming he is divorced)? Talk to him...


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## Young at Heart

Zoomzoom said:


> *Older gentleman (52)*, younger me (37). Here lies the problem. Limited texts. Typically good morning, good night, and to confirm a date. *We've kissed and made out. It's been 3 months with many dates.* We basically meet, have lots of fun together, good, deep conversation, and kiss goodbye. No phone calls between dates. I typically feel like we're strangers again each time we meet.
> 
> I arrange for all dates...he stopped giving ideas. He'll simply ask what I have in mind each time we meet. He pays for all dates, and declines my offer to pay.
> 
> He was very, very enthusiastic during the initial dates, but he's cooled way off. *I've tried to initiate more affection, hand holding, etc but I sense he's holding back.
> 
> Is it because of the lack of sex?*? We have lots of fun together, but I'm now ready for more physically. He always asks me out and takes me places. He's a gentleman.
> 
> I don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't appear to "want" me. *I'm so attracted to him physicall*y, he tells me I'm so attractive, and the kisses are so passionate. Then nothing.
> 
> *Initially I wanted to wait, but now I'm ready.*





Zoomzoom said:


> He's not married (at least I don't think he is). *Been a widower for 2 years.*


I would hypothesize two possibilities.

The first is that he is attracted to you, but somehow either verbally or by your actions you made him feel you didn't want to have sex with him and in your relationship, he never felt that you changed and not want to have sex with him. By the way, I think waiting until your divorce was final was the right thing to do before considering a sexual relationship.

A second possibility is that he is 52 and a widower for 2 years. That means it has been 2 years since his wife died and she may have been his wife for around 2 to 3 decades. Depending upon how much he loved her and how she died, he still may have huge emotional conflicts about being physical and sexually intimate with another woman.

If you put all the pieces together and how passionate he seems to be and how the two of you made out early on when you were putting the brakes on things and asking to go slow, I would lean more toward the first explanation or some combination.

Either way, why don't you tell him that although you wanted to go slow until your divorce was finalized, you are now ready to explore the sexual chemistry you feel between the two of you, if he feels he has grieved the loss of his wife to the point where he can comfortably do that. You could also say you aren't looking for a husband (if you really mean that) and that what you are looking for someone to celebrate life with. 

Enjoy. Don't overthink it, tell him what you want, and enjoy him to the fullest.


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## bobert

Zoomzoom said:


> He's not married (at least I don't think he is). Been a widower for 2 years.


If he's a widower, it's possible he feels too guilty to have sex with another woman. Again, you will have to talk to him...


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## Max.HeadRoom

Talk to him if hints are falling on deaf ears. Some of us are unable to read any social clues. I’m one. After my 1st wife passed away & I was dating again, one gal in frustration thrusted my hand up her blouse. After that, I got more aggressive in my pursuits.


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## thunderchad

Maybe be more clear. Just say "I want you to **** me right now."


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## Zoomzoom

I just sent him a text saying I missed him. He read but didn't respond.


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## Zoomzoom

Or, he just responded. Says he looks forward to getting together this weekend. Ugh.


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## Mr.Married

You are wasting your time wanting him to be something he isn’t.


Waste…..Of……Time


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## jsmart

If you’re the first woman that he’s been with since his wife’s death, he may be both afraid to face rejection and feeling guilty of being with another woman. I see nothing wrong with bringing up the subject with some like what @Young at Heart suggested. 
*“why don't you tell him that although you wanted to go slow until your divorce was finalized, you are now ready to explore the sexual chemistry you feel between the two of you, if he feels he has grieved the loss of his wife to the point where he can comfortably do that. You could also say you aren't looking for a husband (if you really mean that) and that what you are looking for someone to celebrate life with.”*


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## ccpowerslave

Hmm…

3 months is a long time if you’re making out and stuff. He might be trying to be really nice or something and way overshooting the mark. You’re both adults and have experience so I would just ask him straight up.

Does he ever get a boner when you’re making out?


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## hamadryad

Text him a picture of your tits and say "you want some of this"?? 😂 

All kidding aside, there is nothing wrong with making an advancement for sex...Women do it(and suggest it) all the time...If its just not your thing, that's fine, but at least consider it...Its 2022 for heavens sake...

Anyway, it does seem odd, though....By this time, most guys(and women) will want to be laid...Maybe it is performance anxiety? He doesn't grab your ass or fondle your breasts during make out/? That would be odd as well if he doesn't...

If I were you, I would get close enough to him when making out to see if he's pitching a tent...If he isn't, then maybe you have your answer... Or maybe he isn't all that into you sexually, but likes the company...Its all just a guess, but yeah, its weird that there is no sex by now...


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## Deejo

Single, long term marriage for him, I'm presuming? Further presuming he didn't do a lot of dating prior to meeting you? You described him as a gentleman. Therein lies the problem. You liked and appreciated the gentleman at the outset. The gentleman is admirable, respectful. But that's not what you want now. If he hasn't grabbed the back of your head while you're kissing, pulled you hard into his crotch, or grabbed a handful of breast, to make it clear EXACTLY what's going on with him and what he wants, well ... it ain't likely that's going to change.

He's decided you are calling the shots on this, and based upon your description of things cooling off, I'm also presuming that he's wondering what the hell this is, and what you are doing. I'd further postulate based upon your post, you are wondering what the hell you are doing as well. That is not a good place to be if you are fostering a relationship. I'm not a relationship professional ... but I do play one around these parts ... it sounds like your relationship is winding down, not up.

So ... I will tell you what I would tell any man posting the same issue. Decide what you want. And then actively take steps to make that happen. If you aren't willing to take those steps, then you certainly don't want it very badly. From my perspective, this is purely shallow end stuff. Invite him to take you away for a weekend. Prior to said weekend, invite him to take you shopping for lingerie. You will have your answer, one way or the other, prior to ever removing a stitch of clothing.

I had a similar dating experience to what you are describing this past summer, and we dated for about the same time, between 10 and 12 weeks. I am a gentleman. I also possess the skill set to know when to NOT be a gentleman, to the advantage of both parties.

She had been in a long term, abusive marriage. Serial cheater husband. I pushed nothing. The way I describe it, it always felt like our second date. She was smart, kind, and for lack of a better word; proper. I liked her very much. Always felt like she was waiting for something from me, but she never ever expressed what that was. We were intimate once at about the 8 week point. I would describe it as awkward at best. Again, I chalked it up to her not having a lot of experience with a good marriage, or post marriage. We ended up at the 'weekend experiment'. We went our separate ways a week later, with no hard feelings. Well ... I didn't have any.

If you want to know what this is and where it is going, you can't go wrong following my suggestion. Should you choose not to, I can tell you with certainty that the relationship is winding down, not ramping up. You have 'friend zoned' each other. Although I would also caution you, again purely my opinion, the fact that he hasn't attempted to seduce you at all, is a red flag ... for me.


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## In Absentia

He's clearly got some problem in the sex department... whatever that is. Just a frank conversation with him.


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## Zoomzoom

ccpowerslave said:


> Hmm…
> 
> 3 months is a long time if you’re making out and stuff. He might be trying to be really nice or something and way overshooting the mark. You’re both adults and have experience so I would just ask him straight up.
> 
> Does he ever get a boner when you’re making out?


I don't know....I've neve reached out to feel his Male parts. All I know is that the kisses/hugs are extremely passionate and long. He was literally in my bedroom last week, to "see" my closet space, then we kissed and he left. Ugh. He's been in my bedroom a few times when he visits.


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## Zoomzoom

hamadryad said:


> Text him a picture of your tits and say "you want some of this"?? 😂
> 
> All kidding aside, there is nothing wrong with making an advancement for sex...Women do it(and suggest it) all the time...If its just not your thing, that's fine, but at least consider it...Its 2022 for heavens sake...
> 
> Anyway, it does seem odd, though....By this time, most guys(and women) will want to be laid...Maybe it is performance anxiety? He doesn't grab your ass or fondle your breasts during make out/? That would be odd as well if he doesn't...
> 
> If I were you, I would get close enough to him when making out to see if he's pitching a tent...If he isn't, then maybe you have your answer... Or maybe he isn't all that into you sexually, but likes the company...Its all just a guess, but yeah, its weird that there is no sex by now...


 He doesn't grab my lady parts at all. He's complimented me each time, saying I have a nice body and all, but he's never touched my ass or boobs. He just hugs and kisses.


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## Zoomzoom

Single, longterm marriage for him, yes. But he says he's been casually dating since his wife passed.


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## Zoomzoom

In Absentia said:


> He's clearly got some problem in the sex department... whatever that is. Just a frank conversation with him.


That's scary. My marriage was very sexual...too bad he was a serial cheater who gave me a (thankfully) curable STD. 

On reading what everyone says here, I'm leaning towards ending things. I don't want to initiate or talk about having sex this early on. I want him to want me. Heck, this would be the second person I have sex with in life.


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## DownButNotOut

It could be ED, it could be a complete lack of game. It could also be that being a gentleman, he is still respecting the red light you threw up at the start of the relationship and is waiting for an unambiguous green light from you. 

Yes, you could just end it. But you'll never know unless you talk about it with him.


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## Zoomzoom

Diana7 said:


> Ok so if he a Christian then he may not believe in sex outside marriage but unless you talk you wo itnt know.


He's very religious, but he told me he dated a lot (and had sex) both prior to his marriage and after she died. I'm seeing him tonight so hopefully a conversation and/or sex will follow.


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## Zoomzoom

DownButNotOut said:


> It could be ED, it could be a complete lack of game. It could also be that being a gentleman, he is still respecting the red light you threw up at the start of the relationship and is waiting for an unambiguous green light from you.
> 
> Yes, you could just end it. But you'll never know unless you talk about it with him.


We'll talk tonight and see how things go.


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## joannacroc

Good luck! I think this will be a good practice even if you decide to break up for using your words to talk about stuff like this. If you don't ask, you'll never know.


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## In Absentia

Zoomzoom said:


> On reading what everyone says here, I'm leaning towards ending things.


Just talk to him first... what have you got to lose?


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## Talker67

well, what are you waiting for.
dress up sexy, show up at his house, and jump his bones.
THEN see how things go. You probably gave him very mixed signals, and he is probably a more beta type of guy and just assumed you did not want sex. 
Show him you DO want it

why do people make sex such a drama? Guys want it. Want to make him more interested? Just go do it!

you could also bring over an apple pie you baked for him....guys love that stuff too!


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## LisaDiane

Zoomzoom said:


> He's very religious, but he told me he dated a lot (and had sex) both prior to his marriage and after she died. I'm seeing him tonight so hopefully a conversation and/or sex will follow.


This whole situation would be an enormous red flag for me. Even if you two were waiting, you should feel some straining or desire to have sex, not just from him but with yourself. 

You say you want to have sex, but you've never touched his body at all when kissing?? If I was kissing a man I was attracted to, but trying not to have sex with him, my hands would be on him as much as I could stand, even if I didn't touch his "man parts"...there are lots of other "parts" on him that I would have an urge to feel on him while making out. Do you feel any passion for him that way? You say you are attracted to him, so when he kisses you, don't you instinctively want to know what his arms or stomach or chest feel like?

What you want is a man who responds to you as a woman...and it doesn't sound like he is. Now he MIGHT be taking cues from you, however, the fact that he also lets YOU plan every date and just likes showing up and paying, and doesn't text or flirt with you at all, seems to show a man who isn't taking much initiative to engage in the relationship.
Where is his passion and excitement for you?? If that's what you are looking for, this might be the wrong guy for you.

I think it's a great idea to talk to him directly about this, but I really think you might be seeing the true person he is. And if you aren't happy being in charge and directing him with sex and your whole relationship, he might not be the right guy for you.


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## ccpowerslave

LisaDiane said:


> You say you want to have sex, but you've never touched his body at all when kissing?? If I was kissing a man I was attracted to, but trying not to have sex with him, my hands would be on him as much as I could stand, even if I didn't touch his "man parts"...there are lots of other "parts" on him that I would have an urge to feel on him while making out. Do you feel any passion for him that way? You say you are attracted to him, so when he kisses you, don't you instinctively want to know what his arms or stomach or chest feel like?


Yeah that was why I asked.

If I’m making out there gonna be some feels happening. I also think it would be hard to miss someone having a raging boner.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy

I'm guessing you haven't spent a whole night together yet. Unless I've missed a part were you said you have (I'm half asleep lol) 

If you haven't spent a whole night together, how about seeing if he would like to stay over night in a romantic hotel. He should understand that a night alone together would mean sharing a bed and lots of sex haha. If he refuses then you will know if he wants sex yet or not. If he agrees take lots of different massage lotions, sexy underwear or sexy nightie and have a great time.


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## Diceplayer

Zoomzoom said:


> I don't want to initiate or talk about having sex this early on. *I want him to want me.* Heck, this would be the second person I have sex with in life.


And there you have it, Another woman who expects a man to read her mind. For goodness sakes girl, talk to the man!


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## LisaDiane

Diceplayer said:


> And there you have it, Another woman who expects a man to read her mind. For goodness sakes girl, talk to the man!


I don't know...I'm kind of in the camp of, it shouldn't take a bunch of words to feel desired by someone. 

If it's real, wouldn't he (or she) SHOW it...??


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## ccpowerslave

LisaDiane said:


> If it's real, wouldn't he (or she) SHOW it...??


Van Halen has led me to believe that yes, that person should show their love.


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## LisaDiane

ccpowerslave said:


> Van Halen has led me to believe that yes, that person should show their love.


"Reach down, between my legs, ease the seat back..."


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## ccpowerslave

LisaDiane said:


> "Reach down, between my legs, ease the seat back..."


Exactly!

That is the kind of action OP is looking for.


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## Diceplayer

ccpowerslave said:


> Exactly!
> 
> That is the kind of action OP is looking for.


But since he is religious, he may not believe in sex outside of marriage. If that's the case, she won't know that unless they have a conversation. And if that's the case, she won't get what she is looking for and is wasting her time wishing and hoping and hoping and wishing. Just wanting someone to act a certain way doesn't make it happen.


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## bobert

Zoomzoom said:


> I don't know....I've neve reached out to feel his Male parts. All I know is that the kisses/hugs are extremely passionate and long.


How passionate can it really be if you have been making out for 3 months but you don't know if he gets hard from it? You don't have to reach down to know the answer. Either you'd feel it against your body or you'd be able to see it.


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## fluffycoco

Maybe he has another woman in his life... Maybe he doesn't want you too close to him... 

Went through similar situation before


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## jsmart

Out society has beaten down a lot of men’s instinctive sexual passion. We are given mixed messages of be nice and many articles are put out that women just want a nice guy. So he could be fighting years of be a nice guy indoctrination that many churches have been spoon feeding into men’s minds for decades.

but I still think it has more to do with fear of rejection combined with guilt. Being a widower for 2 years isn’t a long time if his marriage was decades long, he may get flashes of his wife and hold back. Also, he will probably be very rusty on how to push intimacy to the next level with a new woman. What he did in his dating life decades ago is not relevant today.


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## Deejo

I just want to understand something you mentioned in a post above;


Zoomzoom said:


> I don't want to initiate or talk about having sex this early on. I want him to want me. Heck, this would be the second person I have sex with in life.


There is a contradiction here. You want him to take charge and seduce you. You WANT to have sex with this guy, yes? So I'm trying to understand the "I don't want to initiate or talk about having sex this early on ..." piece.

Is this a measure of self protection on your part presuming things aren't going in the direction you want? 

I only say this because frankly, one of the best metrics you can get at this point for where the relationship stands, or whether or not he is a competent sexual partner who can meet your needs both emotionally and physically; would be to have sex. 

He does sound to me like a middle aged guy, who ISN'T great at navigating the modern sexual dynamic minefield, and as others have mentioned, given his age, there is the strong possibility of some performance anxiety on his part. 

I hope you go for broke in the conversation today. In my opinion there is no greater form of foreplay than open, honest, and compassionate communication. It is fair for you to make it clear to him that you want, or need him to express his desire for you, or be honest about his lack thereof. The word play that will make that an intimate conversation, is you taking the vulnerable step of letting him know you want that with him (presuming you do). This is the risk/reward dance that generally falls squarely in the lap of the dude. But ... it seems like you do have feelings for this guy, so I hope it all works out to both of your benefit.

Do let us know for goodness sake. We like to take all of the good news we can get around here. We'll be waiting. ;-)


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## Deejo

jsmart said:


> Out society has beaten down a lot of men’s instinctive sexual passion. We are given mixed messages of be nice and many articles are put out that women just want a nice guy. So he could be fighting years of be a nice guy indoctrination that many churches have been spoon feeding into men’s minds for decades.
> 
> but I still think it has more to do with fear of rejection combined with guilt. Being a widower for 2 years isn’t a long time if his marriage was decades long, he may get flashes of his wife and hold back. Also, he will probably be very rusty on how to push intimacy to the next level with a new woman. What he did in his dating life decades ago is not relevant today.


All valid points. But I was distinctly left with the impression that she indicated he HAS been in sexual relationships since the passing of his wife. I could be mistaken.


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## Zoomzoom

*You say you want to have sex, but you've never touched his body at all when kissing?? If I was kissing a man I was attracted to, but trying not to have sex with him, my hands would be on him as much as I could stand, even if I didn't touch his "man parts"...there are lots of other "parts" on him that I would have an urge to feel on him while making out. Do you feel any passion for him that way? You say you are attracted to him, so when he kisses you, don't you instinctively want to know what his arms or stomach or chest feel like?*



The passion and desire, him wanting me, this is what's missing. During the initial dates, we had all that. I felt like jumping on him on the first date, and coincidentally, he texted after the first date and pretty much said "wow, what was that all about?? I had fun, and you clearly did, too".

Maybe I was lonely and horny, I don't know. All I know is I desired him, I wanted him very much. When we kissed, I touched everything I can, but his penis.

Maybe he lost interest because he waited for so long. I don't want to share something so intimate with a guy who is so 'meh' about it.


----------



## joannacroc

Deejo said:


> All valid points. But I was distinctly left with the impression that she indicated he HAS been in sexual relationships since the passing of his wife. I could be mistaken.


She said "He's very religious, but he told me he dated a lot (and had sex) both prior to his marriage and after she died." So it sounds like he has - or at least has communicated to OP that he has.


----------



## jsmart

@Deejo if he’s been sexually intimate other women since his wife’s passing, then that’s a whole different ball game. Unless the woman he has been with were closer to his age and hence no intimidation. But @Zoomzoom is 15 years younger, so in his mind, he may be fear that he’s not enough for such a hot young thing.


----------



## Deejo

You people are filthy minded.

I love that about you.


----------



## Zoomzoom

fluffycoco said:


> Maybe he has another woman in his life... Maybe he doesn't want you too close to him...
> 
> Went through similar situation before


Yeah, I thought maybe be does, but we haven't discussed it. He's been actively dating, so perhaps you are right. But why would he continue dating me for 3 months if he's getting no sex?


----------



## Zoomzoom

jsmart said:


> Out society has beaten down a lot of men’s instinctive sexual passion. We are given mixed messages of be nice and many articles are put out that women just want a nice guy. So he could be fighting years of be a nice guy indoctrination that many churches have been spoon feeding into men’s minds for decades.
> 
> but I still think it has more to do with fear of rejection combined with guilt. Being a widower for 2 years isn’t a long time if his marriage was decades long, he may get flashes of his wife and hold back. Also, he will probably be very rusty on how to push intimacy to the next level with a new woman. What he did in his dating life decades ago is not relevant today.


He has been actively dating and presumably having since she passed.


----------



## Zoomzoom

bobert said:


> How passionate can it really be if you have been making out for 3 months but you don't know if he gets hard from it? You don't have to reach down to know the answer. Either you'd feel it against your body or you'd be able to see it.


It's winter time, we all bundle up pretty heavy.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Diceplayer said:


> But since he is religious, he may not believe in sex outside of marriage. If that's the case, she won't know that unless they have a conversation. And if that's the case, she won't get what she is looking for and is wasting her time wishing and hoping and hoping and wishing. Just wanting someone to act a certain way doesn't make it happen.


He's religious, but has been having sex and dating.


----------



## Zoomzoom

LisaDiane said:


> I don't know...I'm kind of in the camp of, it shouldn't take a bunch of words to feel desired by someone.
> 
> If it's real, wouldn't he (or she) SHOW it...??


 Exactly. I don't want to have sex with a guy who doesn't seem excited or is "so so" about it. It's a turn off.


----------



## Zoomzoom

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> I'm guessing you haven't spent a whole night together yet. Unless I've missed a part were you said you have (I'm half asleep lol)
> 
> If you haven't spent a whole night together, how about seeing if he would like to stay over night in a romantic hotel. He should understand that a night alone together would mean sharing a bed and lots of sex haha. If he refuses then you will know if he wants sex yet or not. If he agrees take lots of different massage lotions, sexy underwear or sexy nightie and have a great time.


We haven't spent a night together. Maybe it's relevant to note that he's raising his two teenage kids alone, late teens. I share 50/50 custody with ex. I have one teen.


----------



## Talker67

bobert said:


> So, does he even want to have sex without being married? *Some religious folks won't even kiss before marriage*, let alone sex or foreplay. Is he okay with having sex with another woman (assuming he is divorced)? Talk to him...


wait, what about the religious woman who went into mens rooms chasing after guys at the stag party? did not slow her down!


----------



## Talker67

Zoomzoom said:


> Exactly. I don't want to have sex with a guy who doesn't seem excited or is "so so" about it. It's a turn off.


so, you do not know how to seduce a man?

do you need some youtube links, maybe? it is something all women should be able to do, and most men expect women to do for them.


----------



## LisaDiane

Zoomzoom said:


> *You say you want to have sex, but you've never touched his body at all when kissing?? If I was kissing a man I was attracted to, but trying not to have sex with him, my hands would be on him as much as I could stand, even if I didn't touch his "man parts"...there are lots of other "parts" on him that I would have an urge to feel on him while making out. Do you feel any passion for him that way? You say you are attracted to him, so when he kisses you, don't you instinctively want to know what his arms or stomach or chest feel like?*
> 
> 
> 
> The passion and desire, him wanting me, this is what's missing. During the initial dates, we had all that. I felt like jumping on him on the first date, and coincidentally, he texted after the first date and pretty much said "wow, what was that all about?? I had fun, and you clearly did, too".
> 
> Maybe I was lonely and horny, I don't know. All I know is I desired him, I wanted him very much. When we kissed, I touched everything I can, but his penis.
> 
> Maybe he lost interest because he waited for so long. I don't want to share something so intimate with a guy who is so 'meh' about it.


Hmm....that's an ODD text for him to send after a passionate make-out session....I would have expected him to say something like, "Wow, that was hot! I can't wait to do it again!"...or something equally expressive of a desire to continue or take it further. His text sounds like a "control" for the desire that you both expressed with eachother.

He said, "what was that all about?"....that's a strange thing to say if you are excited about having sex with someone.

I agree with you that he just doesn't have enough raw desire for you, and that just might be his normal self. He might not love sex and not see it as a priority in a relationship. He definitely enjoys you as a companion and friend...but that simply would NOT be enough for me.

At your age, there are far too many guys out there who would feel TONS of desire for you (although, they will each have their own set of challenges), and I agree with you that I wouldn't want to share my passion for sex with a man who wasn't clearly reciprocating desire for me.

And imagine what he will be like in a year, if he isn't horny for you NOW.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Deejo said:


> I just want to understand something you mentioned in a post above;
> 
> 
> *There is a contradiction here. You want him to take charge and seduce you. You WANT to have sex with this guy, yes? So I'm trying to understand the "I don't want to initiate or talk about having sex this early on ..." piece.
> 
> Is this a measure of self protection on your part presuming things aren't going in the direction you want?*
> 
> I only say this because frankly, one of the best metrics you can get at this point for where the relationship stands, or whether or not he is a competent sexual partner who can meet your needs both emotionally and physically; would be to have sex.
> 
> He does sound to me like a middle aged guy, who ISN'T great at navigating the modern sexual dynamic minefield, and as others have mentioned, given his age, there is the strong possibility of some performance anxiety on his part.
> 
> I hope you go for broke in the conversation today. In my opinion there is no greater form of foreplay than open, honest, and compassionate communication. It is fair for you to make it clear to him that you want, or need him to express his desire for you, or be honest about his lack thereof. The word play that will make that an intimate conversation, is you taking the vulnerable step of letting him know you want that with him (presuming you do). This is the risk/reward dance that generally falls squarely in the lap of the dude. But ... it seems like you do have feelings for this guy, so I hope it all works out to both of your benefit.
> 
> Do let us know for goodness sake. We like to take all of the good news we can get around here. We'll be waiting. ;-)


What I mean is, I don't know if the guy desires me or not. I was 1000% sure at the beginning, I'm less than 50% certain now. And I'd like my certainty to be back at 1000%, heck, I'll even take 500%, before we do the deed.

And I don't want to "talk about desire or certainty", because he'll likely tell me what I want to hear to get laid snce he hasn't gotten any from me. I want him to desire and want me, and this shouldn't be forced by a conversation.


----------



## Deejo

Zoomzoom said:


> I don't want to share something so intimate with a guy who is so 'meh' about it.


I can appreciate that sentiment.

And I can also tell you, that for lots of men, particularly older, post long term marriage, as another poster indicated, this can be a very mixed message, because most of those guys simply aren't self aware of the ground rules in the sexual marketplace. We are supposed to be gentlemen, yet we are also supposed to intuit when it's time to start pawing. 

Your discussion this evening is warranted. I hope you both get the outcome you desire.


----------



## bobert

Zoomzoom said:


> It's winter time, we all bundle up pretty heavy.


Are you only making out outdoors?


----------



## LisaDiane

Zoomzoom said:


> Exactly. I don't want to have sex with a guy who doesn't seem excited or is "so so" about it. It's a turn off.





Zoomzoom said:


> What I mean is, I don't know if the guy desires me or not. I was 1000% sure at the beginning, I'm less than 50% certain now. And I'd like my certainty to be back at 1000%, heck, I'll even take 500%, before we do the deed.
> 
> And I don't want to "talk about desire or certainty", because he'll likely tell me what I want to hear to get laid snce he hasn't gotten any from me. I want him to desire and want me, and this shouldn't be forced by a conversation.


These points EXACTLY. These are red flags about his ability to be sexually intimate and connect sexually WITH YOU.

It's very possible that he just doesn't care alot about sex, and never has. And you are right, I would hesitate to bring it up too, because he might try to say what you want to hear.

What do you think would happen if you just stopped initiating everything. Stop texting him first, stop planning all the dates, stop trying to kiss him....just allow him to be himself, and SEE who he is and how he naturally responds to you on his own, and decide if THAT is a man who is going to make you happy.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Zoomzoom said:


> *You say you want to have sex, but you've never touched his body at all when kissing?? If I was kissing a man I was attracted to, but trying not to have sex with him, my hands would be on him as much as I could stand, even if I didn't touch his "man parts"...there are lots of other "parts" on him that I would have an urge to feel on him while making out. Do you feel any passion for him that way? You say you are attracted to him, so when he kisses you, don't you instinctively want to know what his arms or stomach or chest feel like?*
> 
> 
> 
> The passion and desire, him wanting me, this is what's missing. During the initial dates, we had all that. I felt like jumping on him on the first date, and coincidentally, he texted after the first date and pretty much said "wow, what was that all about?? I had fun, and you clearly did, too".
> 
> Maybe I was lonely and horny, I don't know. All I know is I desired him, I wanted him very much. When we kissed, I touched everything I can, but his penis.
> 
> Maybe he lost interest because he waited for so long. I don't want to share something so intimate with a guy who is so 'meh' about it.


In today's world it can be a risk to take too much of a physical chance with a female. Maybe that's in his head? He's just playing it safe until he sees the signs?
You should make enough of a move (or communicate) so that he absolutely knows you're open to the next steps. Communication would be best. Nakedness is also an option.

Then you'll have your answer (tonight I assume).
Good luck with everything, I hope all this was him just being cautious and he desires you 1000%


----------



## Deejo

Zoomzoom said:


> And I don't want to "talk about desire or certainty", because he'll likely tell me what I want to hear to get laid snce he hasn't gotten any from me. I want him to desire and want me, and this shouldn't be forced by a conversation.


No argument from me. 

I like your style.

You're going to be just fine, regardless of the outcome with this guy. 

So please keep in mind, I do tend to ask lots of questions, or discuss scenarios. It is never to have a 'gotcha' moment, or to try and get over on, or shame anyone I'm engaging with. I've learned a lot on the boards, and make no secret of the fact I'm still learning.

So do I understand you correctly that had he read the tea leaves right on your first date, and made the move, you would have slept with him, yes? 

No judgement on my part whatsoever. I've slept with women on first dates, sometimes I've waited weeks for that elusive 'signal', sometimes I haven't. Had you guys done the deed, you could either be exactly where you had hoped to be, or have even greater anxiety over the relationship had he continued to behave as you have outlined. I'm a big believer in that no matter what the length of time is that you have been with someone, in every single exchange you have with them, it's the opportunity to move the needle on the relationship. And as such you can foster greater trust, intimacy, and love, or your actions can diminish all of those things. In my playbook, his behavior has clearly diminished the relationship. I honestly see it like a fuel gauge. You're either filling up the love tank, or draining it. Let it get to E, and it's time to get out and start walking.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Talker67 said:


> so, you do not know how to seduce a man?
> 
> do you need some youtube links, maybe? it is something all women should be able to do, and most men expect women to do for them.


I can seduce a man, if he demonstrates that he's interested, pursues and desires me sexually too.

This guy showed all that at the beginning, then sat back and stopped.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Deejo said:


> No argument from me.
> 
> I like your style.
> 
> You're going to be just fine, regardless of the outcome with this guy.
> 
> So please keep in mind, I do tend to ask lots of questions, or discuss scenarios. It is never to have a 'gotcha' moment, or to try and get over on, or shame anyone I'm engaging with. I've learned a lot on the boards, and make no secret of the fact I'm still learning.
> 
> *So do I understand you correctly that had he read the tea leaves right on your first date, and made the move, you would have slept with him, yes?*
> 
> No judgement on my part whatsoever. I've slept with women on first dates, sometimes I've waited weeks for that elusive 'signal', sometimes I haven't. Had you guys done the deed, you could either be exactly where you had hoped to be, or have even greater anxiety over the relationship had he continued to behave as you have outlined. I'm a big believer in that no matter what the length of time is that you have been with someone, in every single exchange you have with them, it's the opportunity to move the needle on the relationship. And as such you can foster greater trust, intimacy, and love, or your actions can diminish all of those things. In my playbook, his behavior has clearly diminished the relationship. I honestly see it like a fuel gauge. You're either filling up the love tank, or draining it. Let it get to E, and it's time to get out and start walking.


Nope, I wouldn't have had sex on the first date, but there was intense chemistry and we made out in a parking garage. I like to get to know and trust people first. And my divorce wasn't final after a 4 year separation.


----------



## Zoomzoom

LisaDiane said:


> These points EXACTLY. These are red flags about his ability to be sexually intimate and connect sexually WITH YOU.
> 
> It's very possible that he just doesn't care alot about sex, and never has. And you are right, I would hesitate to bring it up too, because he might try to say what you want to hear.
> 
> *What do you think would happen if you just stopped initiating everything. Stop texting him first, stop planning all the dates, stop trying to kiss him....just allow him to be himself, and SEE who he is and how he naturally responds to you on his own, and decide if THAT is a man who is going to make you happy.*


I did that already, then he started picking up the slack. Then stopped again. Now here we are. He always initiates texts and offers to meet, though. Then asks me what I where I want to go when the time comes.


----------



## Zoomzoom

LisaDiane said:


> Hmm....that's an ODD text for him to send after a passionate make-out session....I would have expected him to say something like, "Wow, that was hot! I can't wait to do it again!"...or something equally expressive of a desire to continue or take it further. His text sounds like a "control" for the desire that you both expressed with eachother.
> 
> *He said, "what was that all about?"....that's a strange thing to say if you are excited about having sex with someone.*
> 
> I agree with you that he just doesn't have enough raw desire for you, and that just might be his normal self. He might not love sex and not see it as a priority in a relationship. He definitely enjoys you as a companion and friend...but that simply would NOT be enough for me.
> 
> At your age, there are far too many guys out there who would feel TONS of desire for you (although, they will each have their own set of challenges), and I agree with you that I wouldn't want to share my passion for sex with a man who wasn't clearly reciprocating desire for me.
> 
> And imagine what he will be like in a year, if he isn't horny for you NOW.


I think he was kinda surprised by me making out with him, then putting a break and saying let's take things slow.


----------



## re16

So you told him you weren't ready for sex and wanted to wait, he respected your wishes, and you now don't like it? Do you not see the problem with that?

You changed what you wanted but never said anything about it. Do you expect him to be a mind reader?

He's probably annoyed that you never gave the green light, because you gave a full red light in direct communication early on. I think this situation is on you. The fact that it would be so easy to resolve with a few words and you refuse to do that is weird.


----------



## Deejo

Zoomzoom said:


> Nope, I wouldn't have had sex on the first date, but there was intense chemistry and we made out in a parking garage. I like to get to know and trust people first. And my divorce wasn't final after a 4 year separation.


You have good instincts.

But I'd encourage building up the instinct to know when to throw out your instincts.


----------



## hamadryad

re16 said:


> So you told him you weren't ready for sex and wanted to wait, he respected your wishes, and you now don't like it? Do you not see the problem with that?
> 
> You changed what you wanted but never said anything about it. Do you expect him to be a mind reader?
> 
> He's probably annoyed that you never gave the green light, because you gave a full red light in direct communication early on. I think this situation is on you. The fact that it would be so easy to resolve with a few words and you refuse to do that is weird.



No guy should ever be this naive....That doesn't mean ignore what she said, but if it's been three months and many make out sessions later, not only is the light green, it's flashing too....

If OP likes sex, this guy is not going to ever scratch that itch.....Not from what I am hearing, anyway...If the pull isn't this strong early on, its gonna be dead as a doornail by year one...


----------



## re16

hamadryad said:


> No guy should ever be this naive....That doesn't mean ignore what she said, but if it's been three months and many make out sessions later, not only is the light green, it's flashing too....
> 
> If OP likes sex, this guy is not going to ever scratch that itch.....Not from what I am hearing, anyway...If the pull isn't this strong early on, its gonna be dead as a doornail by year one...


I agree with you, and as a man, I would have been the one asking if she was ready.... so there you go.... you have two people that refuse to initiate the next step and they probably are a bad combo. I would not blow past a full verbal red light though, not with what happens these days to men that do that.


----------



## Deejo

re16 said:


> So you told him you weren't ready for sex and wanted to wait, he respected your wishes, and you now don't like it? Do you not see the problem with that?
> 
> You changed what you wanted but never said anything about it. Do you expect him to be a mind reader?
> 
> He's probably annoyed that you never gave the green light, because you gave a full red light in direct communication early on. I think this situation is on you. The fact that it would be so easy to resolve with a few words and you refuse to do that is weird.


That becomes an odd c0ckta!l of concern about being 'easy', or her own recognition that she would be heavily emotionally invested if it gone sexual on outing number 1 without as she stated, fully knowing, or trusting this guy. 

I firmly believe and I've thrown it out there on a number of dates, to be playful, or knowing full well there is nothing to lose, that regardless of how long a time span there actually is between meeting and sex, a woman know if she is going to sleep with a man by the end of date #1. From there it's just about getting by whatever her own internal constraints are. And often, as expressed by zoomzoom that is feeling secure that there is a stable emotional connection, and that the dude isn't going bump and run.


----------



## marko polo

In the era of Me Too a man can't be too careful. Consent can also be withdrawn after the fact. If he had nothing more than a superficial interest in her (sex) then he would have already been long gone.

She said she wanted to wait and he respected her boundary. In this day and age he would be foolish to attempt to push past it. Far easier to maintain the boundary and quietly look elsewhere for any needs.

If she would like something more from their arrangement then it would be best for her to tell him what she wants rather than wait on him to read her mind. She also has the option to move on if she is unhappy with the present situation.


----------



## Talker67

some men are very beta. they do what they are told. 
i am sure he would never dream of putting his hand up her skirt, or fondling her breasts while making out, simply because she TOLD HIM NO SEX. He is waiting for permission, as she wonders why he has not made a move.

AND she is getting pissed off about it too!

go figure.
YOUTH is wasted on the young


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Talker67 said:


> YOUTH is wasted on the young


Ha! Truer words were never spoken


----------



## Ursula

Zoomzoom said:


> And say what? 😃Beg him to 'do me'? Shouldn't he initiate more? But no, we haven't talked about it.


Having a conversation about where things stand isn't about begging unless you choose to direct it there. Yes, he should be initiating more, especially if he's wanting this to work out between the both of you. However, people don't generally know what you want unless you tell them. If you want him to initiate get togethers more, tell him. If you want to communicate more in between your dates, tell him. Pick up the phone and call him on a day you don't see him. 

This is what happened between my BF and I. To sum it up, we see each other seldom (like a couple of times every couple of weeks). He has his 11 year old living with him probably 75% of the time, and our homes are almost an hour apart. We didn't touch base much during our off time, and it bugged me, so we talked about it. We tried phone conversations, and those were pretty much a bust, and that bugged both of us, so that time, he suggested Facetime, which is what we now do more often. It works, but it took communicating about it to make it happen.


----------



## Ursula

Zoomzoom said:


> He's extremely religious, so you might be right.


This is a big thing for many people, and you might be onto somehting here. He may not believe in sex or intimacies before marriage, and therefore may not initiate anything until you guys tie the knot.


----------



## Ursula

Zoomzoom said:


> He's very religious, but he told me he dated a lot (and had sex) both prior to his marriage and after she died. I'm seeing him tonight so* hopefully a conversation and/or sex will follow*.


I thought you didn't want to talk to him about having sex. I'm confused about what you're after with him.


----------



## Openminded

If you told him, or he got the impression, that you wanted him to take it slow then he may not realize it’s time to move things along. Or — for whatever reason — he doesn’t really want to move things along yet. Sounds like it’s up to you to find out which it is.


----------



## Ursula

LisaDiane said:


> I don't know...I'm kind of in the camp of, it shouldn't take a bunch of words to feel desired by someone.
> 
> *If it's real, wouldn't he (or she) SHOW it...??*


Sounds like neither of them are showing it!


----------



## Talker67

Ursula said:


> Having a conversation about where things stand isn't about begging unless you choose to direct it there. Yes, he should be initiating more, especially if he's wanting this to work out between the both of you. However, people don't generally know what you want unless you tell them. If you want him to initiate get togethers more, tell him. If you want to communicate more in between your dates, tell him. Pick up the phone and call him on a day you don't see him.
> 
> This is what happened between my BF and I. To sum it up, we see each other seldom (like a couple of times every couple of weeks). He has his 11 year old living with him probably 75% of the time, and our homes are almost an hour apart. We didn't touch base much during our off time, and it bugged me, so we talked about it. We tried phone conversations, and those were pretty much a bust, and that bugged both of us, so that time, he suggested Facetime, which is what we now do more often. It works, but it took communicating about it to make it happen.


i totally agree with the facetime.
texting is worthless. Voice phone calls are a little better. but facetime, you actually see the expressions on your partner's face, it makes a huge difference....its like you are actually there, as opposed to "phoning it in"

btw, when i was young and foolish, i drove pretty much every weekend from boston to auburn NY, just to see my fiance'. a one hour trip would have been a blessing!


----------



## Ursula

Talker67 said:


> i totally agree with the facetime.
> texting is worthless. Voice phone calls are a little better. but facetime, you actually see the expressions on your partner's face, it makes a huge difference....its like you are actually there, as opposed to "phoning it in"
> 
> btw, when i was young and foolish, i drove pretty much every weekend from boston to auburn NY, just to see my fiance'. a one hour trip would have been a blessing!


Facetime is WAY better, and we also don't do a lot of texting. But, actually getting to see him and his daughter make all the difference. Wow, Boston to NY, that's quite the trip! Putting that in perspective, an hour isn't bad at all, but where we are in Canada has had one helluva winter, so the roads have been less than stellar, unfortunately.


----------



## Cletus

Zoomzoom said:


> This guy showed all that at the beginning...


And got what for his efforts?

Did you intentionally or not give him the answer as to how much his desire was appreciated? If you have subsequently taken off the parking brake, did you inform him that what was not wanted then is absolutely wanted now? 

I smell two people too embarrassed or reluctant to have a much needed conversation about intimacy.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

*


Zoomzoom said:



It's winter time, we all bundle up pretty heavy.

Click to expand...

*So the only time you kiss is when you've both got your snowsuits on?

Sounds like you're just being kept as an option at this point. He's continued dating and when he finds a woman that ticks all his boxes, the ghosting will commence.


----------



## ccpowerslave

3 months is a long time. Either he REALLY desires you so bad that he doesn’t want to mess it up or there’s something odd.

In my mind making out is the green light for shenanigans. If she’s doing it back then I’m gonna start trying to get clothes off.

This guy could be a dud!


----------



## Zoomzoom

I give up. He just texted to say he's having doordash with his kids tonight. I had invited him over last night and he said yes.
Not sure what the deal is, maybe he got turned off by waiting too long for sex.
Or maybe he's not that into me. But why keep up with all these dates if he's getting nothing? 
Or maybe I should have given the green light weeks ago.
I dunno.
It sucks. I'm here, kid free and ready to kick things up a notch, but seems like I missed the boat.
Then he'll text me the customary good morning and ask to get together on Saturday for the same old dinner and makeout session. I'm so fed up, so tired. And my hormones are raging. Ugh. Ugh!!!!


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> He's clearly got some problem in the sex department... whatever that is. Just a frank conversation with him.


Could it be that he is a man who doesn't want to have sex until things get more serious? The OP said he is religious. He may believe that sex is for marriage as The Bible says. 
Either way they need to talk about it. 
I actually think it's really refreshing that they are still some men left who don't pressure women into sex after a short time.


----------



## Young at Heart

Zoomzoom said:


> That's scary. My marriage was very sexual...too bad he was a serial cheater who gave me a (thankfully) curable STD.
> 
> On reading what everyone says here, I'm leaning towards ending things. *I don't want to initiate or talk about having sex this early on. I want him to want me. Heck, this would be the second person I have sex with in life.*





Zoomzoom said:


> You say you want to have sex, but you've never touched his body at all when kissing?? If I was kissing a man I was attracted to, but trying not to have sex with him, my hands would be on him as much as I could stand, even if I didn't touch his "man parts"...there are lots of other "parts" on him that I would have an urge to feel on him while making out. Do you feel any passion for him that way? You say you are attracted to him, so when he kisses you, don't you instinctively want to know what his arms or stomach or chest feel like?
> 
> The passion and desire, him wanting me, this is what's missing. During the initial dates, we had all that. I felt like jumping on him on the first date, and coincidentally, he texted after the first date and pretty much said "wow, what was that all about?? I had fun, and you clearly did, too".
> 
> Maybe I was lonely and horny, I don't know. *All I know is I desired him, I wanted him very much. When we kissed, I touched everything I can, but his penis.
> 
> Maybe he lost interest because he waited for so long*. I don't want to share something so intimate with a guy who is so 'meh' about it.





Zoomzoom said:


> He's religious, *but has been having sex and dating.*


Obviously you are conflicted in what you want. You get to choose what you want and if and when you are sexually intimate with someone. But you may have given him signals that you were not ready for a serious adult romantic relationship. Some people call it getting "friend-zoned." Some men, who get put in the friend-zone will stick around, not push a romantic relationship, and hope that things change, but often then need a strong signal that they are no longer in the friend-zone.

My suggestion is that if he is still calling you and talking to you, that you tell him that you want a serious heart to heart discussion with him because you have strong feelings for him that you would like to explore. 

You really do need to find out if he is a "player" and out to kiss, date and mate with as many different women as he can or if he is seriously interested in you. The best way is to ask him and tell him that you would like to explore the sexual chemistry you felt with him on your first date, but that you are not sure how serious he is about you and that he would be your second sexual partner, so this is a little overwhelming for you.

I would also tell him that you dumped your ex after he repeatedly cheated on you and so you have some issues related to fidelity. You might as well, bring up that your ex gave you an STD from cheating, but it was cured, but it has further made you cautious about sex. If he serious and wants to have sex with you at least you can discuss if he has any STD's and the type of protection you want to use from STD's, especially if he is having sex with other women. 

You may have waited too long to capture his heart, and he may be having sex with someone else, like you indicated. As Mae West once said, "Don't keep a man guessing too long—he's sure to find the answer somewhere else." If you have waited too long, he can remain in the friend-zone or you can say you enjoyed his company, but you feel it wouldn't be fair to both of you (and to the other woman his is dating), to keep seeing him.

The sex therapist that helped save my marriage told us that the best sex is playful, humorous and exploratory. When you are with someone special, I suggest you channel your inner Mae West:

• "A hard man is good to find."
• "Is that a banana in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"
• "Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you happy to see me?"

No matter what happens, I suggest you use this dating experience as a lesson and think about how you want to handle dates with other men in your future. Just like you want a potential sex partner to clearly show how much he desires you, most men fear rejection and want a woman to show them how much she desires them sexually. That means talking about exploring sexual chemistry is a way of saying it without being too blunt. 

Another way is to be brave enough to put your hand on a man's thigh over where his penis might be, if you think you want to have sex with him. If you feel something you can always smile and say it seems like he is as excited to be with you as you are with him. Or you could use one of the Mae West lines delivered with a knowing smile.

Good luck.


----------



## Ursula

Zoomzoom said:


> I give up. He just texted to say he's having doordash with his kids tonight. I had invited him over last night and he said yes.
> Not sure what the deal is, maybe he got turned off by waiting too long for sex.
> Or maybe he's not that into me. But why keep up with all these dates if he's getting nothing?
> Or maybe I should have given the green light weeks ago.
> I dunno.
> It sucks. I'm here, kid free and ready to kick things up a notch, but seems like I missed the boat.
> Then he'll text me the customary good morning and ask to get together on Saturday for the same old dinner and makeout session. I'm so fed up, so tired. And my hormones are raging. Ugh. Ugh!!!!


I understand why some people choose to wait until they have divorce papers in hand to be in an intimate relationship, but to a point. Yes, you should have given the green light awhile ago, OR you NEED to open your mouth and talk to him. I seriously don't know why you're so against it. If he can't get together, pick up the phone or facetime him. This isn't some huge conversation; it's a normal conversation that every couple probably has at some point.


----------



## Openminded

Obviously you should have green-lighted your interest when you knew you were ready. But that didn’t happen so let him know, in whatever way you feel comfortable, that you’re ready the next time you see him. His reaction will tell you what you need to know.


----------



## oldshirt

I agree with a lot of the others. You two are full grown adults. You have each been in intimate relationships before. You should have each developed interpersonal communication skills by now. Having a conversation like grown adults on your expectations and wants and needs is not "begging," it is communication. I think I read somewhere that people should do that..... yes I am sure that I have heard communication is important and that people should do it. 

Additionally, dating is an interview and tryout/probationary period where people do things together and spend some time together to get to know each other to see if they are a match or not. If you two have wildly different ideas and values and temperments on something as fundamental as affection and sexuality, then you may not be a match.


----------



## Quad73

You literally have nothing to lose.

Ask him "do you think I'm sexy?"
If his answer is yes...
"why haven't you tried to get me in the sack?"

This will be his best opportunity to confide in you. It'll be a relief for him too, trust me. 

You'll either get closer because of the conversation, or decide to move on from there.

Best of luck.


----------



## Talker67

Ursula said:


> Facetime is WAY better, and we also don't do a lot of texting. But, actually getting to see him and his daughter make all the difference. Wow, Boston to NY, that's quite the trip! Putting that in perspective, an hour isn't bad at all, but where we are in Canada has had one helluva winter, so the roads have been less than stellar, unfortunately.


that does make it a little more interesting to drive!


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## Talker67

as @Young at Heart said, you "friendzoned" him.
most guys, especially at his age, do not need more casual friends. 
When a guy realizes he has beed friendzoned, usually he just walks away from it all. In someways, it is like getting hit upside his head with a 2x4. He was hoping for a more intimate relationship, and instead reels back and says to himself "why am i not good enough for her?". and it hurts. so he stops even wanting to see you, even as a casual friend.

And even now, that you are being told all this, you still seem reluctant to jump his bones. You, if you want him interested again, have some serious damage control to perform with him.


----------



## hamadryad

Talker67 said:


> as @Young at Heart said, you "friendzoned" him.
> most guys, especially at his age, do not need more casual friends.
> When a guy realizes he has beed friendzoned, usually he just walks away from it all. In someways, it is like getting hit upside his head with a 2x4. He was hoping for a more intimate relationship, and instead reels back and says to himself "why am i not good enough for her?". and it hurts. so he stops even wanting to see you, even as a casual friend.
> 
> And even now, that you are being told all this, you still seem reluctant to jump his bones. You, if you want him interested again, have some serious damage control to perform with him.



Lol...women don't suck face with guys in the so called "friend zone"....

She didn't FZ him....Every woman(well...most, anyway, IME) does what the OP did...They don't want to be a complete laydown early on, and they want the guy to take the initiative...They play that game early on to gauge a guys willingness to hang in there if he doesn't get sex immediately, but then when she opened the door a crack, she expected him to blow it off the hinges....What does this sap do? He re closes it for her... 😂 

Its been hashed over in this thread numerous times...Judging by what I have read and heard, the OP is just doing what most women do...I'd say the only thing(and I am not faulting her, not all women want to do this) is she could have been a bit more aggressive...Again, it's not something most women feel comfortable with so I wouldn't call her on that...

It's either one of two things...He's just a garden variety putz, that doesn't know anything about women and sex, and may have some sexual hangup,..Most guys have this game figured out by 15/16 years old, and he is in his 50's....OR.. it is possible, I suppose, that he doesn't really like her, and just doesn't have the stones to come out and tell her that, or is being considerate enough to not pump and dump her...But in either case, it's probably not the ideal for the OP...If she wants to try to figure it out by talking to him, fine, but I would imagine that would be an uncomfortable convo, and she may not even get the truth anyway..


----------



## Talker67

^i disagree

there are all types of guys out there. Me, i would have been convincing her to go all the way after the first makeout session.

but he is not you or me! she said no sex, and he thought she really MEANT no sex, and was no longer interested. Maybe he had been abused by women most of his life and never got laid even when he was expecting to.

he was friendzoned. and now, consequently, SHE is also friendzoned.


----------



## hamadryad

Talker67 said:


> ^i disagree
> 
> there are all types of guys out there. *Me, i would have been convincing her to go all the way after the first makeout session.*



Let us know how that all works out for you..... 😂 I'll give you a hint, they won't take kindly to it and you probably will leave on your head...

When women you are dating refuse your initial advances(very early on, btw), that doesn't mean no sex forever...They are being careful in who they decide to sleep with...And any guy that has an ounce of experience with women knows this...They want to know who the hell you are....I would certainly hope my own daughter uses that type of judgement, or all my work in raising her would have gone down the toilet..

I don't think a lot of guys truly understand the vulnerable position a lot of women have to put themselves in when dating...But then for whatever reason.....after 3 months of being vetted, he still doesn't understand that it's time to crap or get off the pot? See above post..


----------



## Sierralyn20

OP, this guy isn't into you or he'd pursue you harder. This isn't a matter of green/red light communication like many PPs suggest.

The first man I dated post divorce ( my second sexual encouter, like yours would be) waited patiently for 3 mths for the first kiss, and the initial sexual encounter was 6plus mths after meeting. We broke up for other reasons, but I was always 1000% certain that he desired me. I never doubted that.

Have a conversation if you must, but like you, I TOTALLY would want a guy who showed passion and excitement consistently BEFORE we had sex. And like you, I'd like to get to be emotionally connected first.

Sorry. He isn't that into you.


----------



## fluffycoco

Zoomzoom said:


> Yeah, I thought maybe be does, but we haven't discussed it. He's been actively dating, so perhaps you are right. But why would he continue dating me for 3 months if he's getting no sex?


I don't feel you guys are dating though if he tried to avoid intimate relationship, more like spending some time with a friend


----------



## Chaotic

Zoomzoom said:


> I just thought we'd sort of fall into each other's arms and make passionate love. That's only in the movies, right?


Yes. 

When I first started dating my bf, he didn't push for sex for quite awhile either. Lots of making out, but nothing more. After almost three months of that, we were making out one night and started--wait for it--TALKING about it. We ended up alternately talking about sex and how we felt about sex and what some of our previous experiences were like and then making out and then talking more and then making out more for hours. It's now one of my favorite memories of our early relationship. And then we had sex on our next date, and I think it was great partly because of all the talking we'd done. So, my opinion is: for Pete's sake, talk to the man. Nobody is a mind-reader, and yet we all seem to expect each other to be when we're dating.
Just talk about it. Respectful conversation never killed anyone 🤷


----------



## oldshirt

Talker67 said:


> ^i disagree
> 
> there are all types of guys out there. Me, i would have been convincing her to go all the way after the first makeout session.
> 
> but he is not you or me! she said no sex, and he thought she really MEANT no sex, and was no longer interested. Maybe he had been abused by women most of his life and never got laid even when he was expecting to.
> 
> he was friendzoned. and now, consequently, SHE is also friendzoned.





hamadryad said:


> Let us know how that all works out for you..... 😂 I'll give you a hint, they won't take kindly to it and you probably will leave on your head...
> 
> When women you are dating refuse your initial advances(very early on, btw), that doesn't mean no sex forever...They are being careful in who they decide to sleep with...And any guy that has an ounce of experience with women knows this...They want to know who the hell you are....I would certainly hope my own daughter uses that type of judgement, or all my work in raising her would have gone down the toilet..
> 
> I don't think a lot of guys truly understand the vulnerable position a lot of women have to put themselves in when dating...But then for whatever reason.....after 3 months of being vetted, he still doesn't understand that it's time to crap or get off the pot? See above post..


I'm actually kind of with @Talker67 on this. A good night kiss is one thing. A grandma smack on the lips a passing sign of general affection. 

But if we are talking heavy making out with 4 lips becoming one, bodies melting into each other and hips are grinding and hands are roaming and caressing etc - that's honest foreplay and red carpet has been rolled out. 

I don't know if I have ever had a hot make out session that did not culminate into sex. Shakira said it best, "the hips don't lie." If people are making out heavily and the hips are grinding, the clothes need to get out of the way. 

If this is like she is saying and they are making out hot and heavy and their lips are locked into each other and their arms are in full embrace and their bodies are melting into each other and they are grinding and writhing into each other, and he is getting up and saying good night Irene - then there's an issue there. 

There is some kind of disconnect. There is a reason the clothes haven't came off. It could be one or a number of many things, but there is something not jiving here. 

We can all make assumptions that the other isn't on board and that it's not a match and walk away and go back on the market. 

Or they can be adults an open their mouths and talk about it. 

The classic line is women say they need to "get to know" someone before they have sex with them. Ok fair enough, but how do we get to know someone????? We get to know someone by talking to them and asking questions and listening to their answer and then sharing things with them about ourselves (such as what one wants in a relationship etc)


----------



## Talker67

oldshirt said:


> I'm actually kind of with @Talker67 on this. A good night kiss is one thing. A grandma smack on the lips a passing sign of general affection.
> 
> But if we are talking heavy making out with 4 lips becoming one, bodies melting into each other and hips are grinding and hands are roaming and caressing etc - that's honest foreplay and red carpet has been rolled out.
> 
> I don't know if I have ever had a hot make out session that did not culminate into sex. Shakira said it best, "the hips don't lie." If people are making out heavily and the hips are grinding, the clothes need to get out of the way.
> 
> If this is like she is saying and they are making out hot and heavy and their lips are locked into each other and their arms are in full embrace and their bodies are melting into each other and they are grinding and writhing into each other, and he is getting up and saying good night Irene - then there's an issue there.
> 
> There is some kind of disconnect. There is a reason the clothes haven't came off. It could be one or a number of many things, but there is something not jiving here.
> 
> We can all make assumptions that the other isn't on board and that it's not a match and walk away and go back on the market.
> 
> Or they can be adults an open their mouths and talk about it.
> 
> The classic line is women say they need to "get to know" someone before they have sex with them. Ok fair enough, but how do we get to know someone????? We get to know someone by talking to them and asking questions and listening to their answer and then sharing things with them about ourselves (such as what one wants in a relationship etc)


it has been so long since i was in a situation to be making out with someone i did not know.....and i am sure today norms have changed a lot.

But if i were heavily making out, back in the day, with a woman, and she did not want full on sex....at some point during the making out i would push the matter. especially if it were the 2nd or 3rd time making out. I would be fondling her breasts, trying to excite her nipples, playing with her legs (especially if she were wearig a short skirt), and if she did not clearly object, i would take that as a tentative YES! and do some more. 

IF she made it known that for now it was a def NO! i would probably keep seeing her for a month, maybe two....then my interest would start to fade pretty quickly

sounds like this guy the OP knows, never learned that sort of game that men and women play. He never tried to see if her "NO!" actually meant "maybe", or even "sure, but not right away"! And he did hang around a full month longer than i would have.


----------



## LisaDiane

Talker67 said:


> ^i disagree
> 
> there are all types of guys out there. Me, i would have been convincing her to go all the way after the first makeout session.
> 
> but he is not you or me! she said no sex, and he thought she really MEANT no sex, and was no longer interested. Maybe he had been abused by women most of his life and never got laid even when he was expecting to.
> 
> he was friendzoned. and now, consequently, SHE is also friendzoned.


Then THIS "type" of guy doesn't sound right for her.


----------



## LisaDiane

Talker67 said:


> it has been so long since i was in a situation to be making out with someone i did not know.....and i am sure today norms have changed a lot.
> 
> But if i were heavily making out, back in the day, with a woman, and she did not want full on sex....at some point during the making out i would push the matter. especially if it were the 2nd or 3rd time making out. I would be fondling her breasts, trying to excite her nipples, playing with her legs (especially if she were wearig a short skirt), and if she did not clearly object, i would take that as a tentative YES! and do some more.
> 
> IF she made it known that for now it was a def NO! i would probably keep seeing her for a month, maybe two....then my interest would start to fade pretty quickly
> 
> sounds like this guy the OP knows, never learned that sort of game that men and women play. He never tried to see if her "NO!" actually meant "maybe", or even "sure, but not right away"! And he did hang around a full month longer than i would have.


I think it sounds like he's playing the game the way HE likes to play it. He was married for a long time, AND he's been dating and having sex with other women before the OP.

He KNOWS the game...he just doesn't "play" it in a way that is compatible with what the OP wants and what makes her feel desired.

I don't think there is anything wrong with him...some women might love how he is behaving, and they would be happy to push HIM for sex like it seems he needs in order to want her. But that doesn't seem to be what turns HER on and makes HER happy.


----------



## oldshirt

Most people don't marry and ride off into the sunset with most people they date or even most people they have sex with. 

In western society where people pick and choose their own mates, most dating relationships do not turn into LTRs/marriage. There are a lot of mismatches and where people don't click and a lot are simply dead ends that die on the vine. 

And in relationships that do progress, there is often a pitcher and a catcher so to speak. One is often the more assertive and that sets the pace and initiates much of the tone and activities and such and the other graciously follows. Most working relationships are more symbiotic than synonymous. They are complimentary rather than completely similar. 

What I think is taking place here is we have two catchers where neither one is really wanting to the throw a pitch. 

In order to have a team, you can't have two catchers and no pitchers. 

Nor can you have two pitchers and no catchers. 

A discussion in going to have to be made here on who is actually going to do some pitching and who is going to be doing most of the catching. If both of you want to be catchers and neither wants to pitch, then you're each probably going to have find another team that has a pitcher that is looking for a catcher.


----------



## Deejo

Zoomzoom said:


> I give up. He just texted to say he's having doordash with his kids tonight. I had invited him over last night and he said yes.
> Not sure what the deal is, maybe he got turned off by waiting too long for sex.
> Or maybe he's not that into me. But why keep up with all these dates if he's getting nothing?
> Or maybe I should have given the green light weeks ago.
> I dunno.
> It sucks. I'm here, kid free and ready to kick things up a notch, but seems like I missed the boat.
> Then he'll text me the customary good morning and ask to get together on Saturday for the same old dinner and makeout session. I'm so fed up, so tired. And my hormones are raging. Ugh. Ugh!!!!


I'm sorry it worked out that way.

If I may simply ask, how emotionally invested are you in this man? 
I say that being fully aware that you are less invested now, than you likely were even just a few weeks ago.

Again, I'm going to keep my advice straightforward. If you want this guy, you need to take an emotional risk. This is what every man ever, is expected to do when courting a woman he desires. And if you choose not to, that's fine too. But as plenty of others here have indicated, it appears you sent up 'signals' very early on, and then clarified by effectively saying you wanted to take things slow. We weren't in your relationship, so we don't know what the dynamic actually looked like. But upon reading, thats definitely a mixed message, and based on his behavior, he has respected your statement.

If you have lots of other dating options, well, then I'd cut this one loose and chalk it up to a learning experience. Because it certainly seems there was some good stuff to learn.


----------



## Young at Heart

hamadryad said:


> Lol...*women don't suck face with guys in the so called "friend zone".*...
> 
> She didn't FZ him....Every woman(well...most, anyway, IME) does what the OP did...They don't want to be a complete laydown early on, and* they want the guy to take the initiative*...They *play that game early on to gauge a guys willingness to hang in there if he doesn't get sex immediately*, but then when she opened the door a crack, she expected him to blow it off the hinges....What does this sap do? He re closes it for her... 😂


A few thoughts. Zoom thinks the guy is dating and having sex with other women. She has a right to figure out if he is a player or someone seriously interesting in her..

There are lots of reasons why a woman could "suck face" and then friend zone a guy. Maybe she is a ****-tease or a player herself. I don't think that is the case with Zoom. Maybe he didn't have the right sexual chemistry. Maybe his children at home distracted from his attractiveness. All of these are things that could happen after sucking face that would put someone in the friend zone.

I say that because most women, I have met if the are socially experienced, say they want to still be friends, even if that is a line. 

Zoom said he was hot and heavy for her and she told him she needed to go slow and she didn't want sex. That is a pretty strong buzz kill. To have him still be in contact with her, is a pretty strong interest on his part in her.

The "game" your describe, I have been heard referred to as a "sh#t-test" to see if I guy will wade through a pile you have dumped infront of him to still get to you. I don't think that still works as well in the "me too" era and the 21st Century. Besides, Zoom thinks he is having sex with and dating other women. If so, I am amazed he is still in contact with her even if he prioritizes dinner with his kids over a date with her.

If she wants him out of the friend zone, she needs to do something pretty dramatic to get his carnal attention, so he knows he now has an invitation to join her in the "bed zone."


----------



## hamadryad

Young at Heart said:


> A few thoughts. Zoom thinks the guy is dating and having sex with other women. She has a right to figure out if he is a player or someone seriously interesting in her..
> 
> There are lots of reasons why a woman could "suck face" and then friend zone a guy. Maybe she is a ****-tease or a player herself. I don't think that is the case with Zoom. Maybe he didn't have the right sexual chemistry. Maybe his children at home distracted from his attractiveness. All of these are things that could happen after sucking face that would put someone in the friend zone.
> 
> I say that because most women, I have met if the are socially experienced, say they want to still be friends, even if that is a line.
> 
> Zoom said he was hot and heavy for her and she told him she needed to go slow and she didn't want sex. That is a pretty strong buzz kill. To have him still be in contact with her, is a pretty strong interest on his part in her.
> 
> The "game" your describe, I have been heard referred to as a "sh#t-test" to see if I guy will wade through a pile you have dumped infront of him to still get to you. I don't think that still works as well in the "me too" era and the 21st Century. Besides, Zoom thinks he is having sex with and dating other women. If so, I am amazed he is still in contact with her even if he prioritizes dinner with his kids over a date with her.
> 
> If she wants him out of the friend zone, she needs to do something pretty dramatic to get his carnal attention, so he knows he now has an invitation to join her in the "bed zone."



I don't know why I am even responding...

She wants to **** him....she's made out with him numerous times...She invited him over for the night...She didn't friendzone him, I have no idea where you guys are getting this nonsense from...Hell, her thread could have been titled."why isn't this guy effing me"?....lol....This is not fz behavior....period and end of story...

Also...if he was a player, he would have bent her over 10 times already, even if she looked like a warthog.....Forget that idea as well/...

Hellooo....women don't just tell guys right up front, "hey just so you know, I expect to suck your **** right after we meet"...They do what this woman, and practically any woman worth a shyt does when trying to select a mate for a LTR...They play a little hard to get, they dodge a little...Its not a strong buzz kill...not for any guy that's had any experience with women, because most of us have done this dance...numerous times....Its just part of the process....It's a "no" but it's not a "NO"... And it's not a shyt test either...If you had a daughter wouldn't you want her to use some judgement and sense, or would you have her eff every guy she decided to date on the first chance, so after 50 guys have put a **** in her, she finally found someone to click with?


She doesn't have to do anything "dramatic"....She's acted and did what most typical women do....Why he's not taking the signals and getting his shyt together is anyone's guess, but ball is clearly in his court...Unless she wants to lead this guy around like a 3 year old..


----------



## Zoomzoom

Diana7 said:


> Could it be that he is a man who doesn't want to have sex until things get more serious? The OP said he is religious. He may believe that sex is for marriage as The Bible says.
> Either way they need to talk about it.
> I actually think it's really refreshing that they are still some men left who don't pressure women into sex after a short time.


That's ok, but if he's religious and doesn't believe in sex before marriage, why is he sleeping with the other women?? He told me he's been casually dating since wife passed. And even before they got married.


----------



## Zoomzoom

hamadryad said:


> I don't know why I am even responding...
> 
> She wants to **** him....she's made out with him numerous times...She invited him over for the night...She didn't friendzone him, I have no idea where you guys are getting this nonsense from...Hell, her thread could have been titled."why isn't this guy effing me"?....lol....This is not fz behavior....period and end of story...
> 
> Also...if he was a player, he would have bent her over 10 times already, even if she looked like a warthog.....Forget that idea as well/...
> 
> Hellooo....women don't just tell guys right up front, "hey just so you know, I expect to suck your *** right after we meet"...They do what this woman, and practically any woman worth a shyt does when trying to select a mate for a LTR...They play a little hard to get, they dodge a little...Its not a strong buzz kill...not for any guy that's had any experience with women, because most of us have done this dance...numerous times....Its just part of the process....It's a "no" but it's not a "NO"... And it's not a shyt test either...If you had a daughter wouldn't you want her to use some judgement and sense, or would you have her eff every guy she decided to date on the first chance, so after 50 guys have put a *** in her, she finally found someone to click with?
> 
> 
> She doesn't have to do anything "dramatic"....She's acted and did what most typical women do....Why he's not taking the signals and getting his shyt together is anyone's guess, but ball is clearly in his court...Unless she wants to lead this guy around like a 3 year old..


Thank you!!!!!! You nailed it...should I be holding up a neon sign for him, too?


----------



## Zoomzoom

Young at Heart said:


> Obviously you are conflicted in what you want. You get to choose what you want and if and when you are sexually intimate with someone. But you may have given him signals that you were not ready for a serious adult romantic relationship. Some people call it getting "friend-zoned." Some men, who get put in the friend-zone will stick around, not push a romantic relationship, and hope that things change, but often then need a strong signal that they are no longer in the friend-zone.
> 
> My suggestion is that if he is still calling you and talking to you, that you tell him that you want a serious heart to heart discussion with him because you have strong feelings for him that you would like to explore.
> 
> You really do need to find out if he is a "player" and out to kiss, date and mate with as many different women as he can or if he is seriously interested in you. The best way is to ask him and tell him that you would like to explore the sexual chemistry you felt with him on your first date, but that you are not sure how serious he is about you and that he would be your second sexual partner, so this is a little overwhelming for you.
> 
> I would also tell him that you dumped your ex after he repeatedly cheated on you and so you have some issues related to fidelity. You might as well, bring up that your ex gave you an STD from cheating, but it was cured, but it has further made you cautious about sex. If he serious and wants to have sex with you at least you can discuss if he has any STD's and the type of protection you want to use from STD's, especially if he is having sex with other women.
> 
> You may have waited too long to capture his heart, and he may be having sex with someone else, like you indicated. As Mae West once said, "Don't keep a man guessing too long—he's sure to find the answer somewhere else." If you have waited too long, he can remain in the friend-zone or you can say you enjoyed his company, but you feel it wouldn't be fair to both of you (and to the other woman his is dating), to keep seeing him.
> 
> The sex therapist that helped save my marriage told us that the best sex is playful, humorous and exploratory. When you are with someone special, I suggest you channel your inner Mae West:
> 
> • "A hard man is good to find."
> • "Is that a banana in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"
> • "Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you happy to see me?"
> 
> No matter what happens, I suggest you use this dating experience as a lesson and think about how you want to handle dates with other men in your future. Just like you want a potential sex partner to clearly show how much he desires you, most men fear rejection and want a woman to show them how much she desires them sexually. That means talking about exploring sexual chemistry is a way of saying it without being too blunt.
> 
> Another way is to be brave enough to put your hand on a man's thigh over where his penis might be, if you think you want to have sex with him. If you feel something you can always smile and say it seems like he is as excited to be with you as you are with him. Or you could use one of the Mae West lines delivered with a knowing smile.
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks. He's asked to get together Sunday night.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Deejo said:


> I'm sorry it worked out that way.
> 
> If I may simply ask, how emotionally invested are you in this man?
> I say that being fully aware that you are less invested now, than you likely were even just a few weeks ago.
> 
> Again, I'm going to keep my advice straightforward. If you want this guy, you need to take an emotional risk. This is what every man ever, is expected to do when courting a woman he desires. And if you choose not to, that's fine too. But as plenty of others here have indicated, it appears you sent up 'signals' very early on, and then clarified by effectively saying you wanted to take things slow. We weren't in your relationship, so we don't know what the dynamic actually looked like. But upon reading, thats definitely a mixed message, and based on his behavior, he has respected your statement.
> 
> If you have lots of other dating options, well, then I'd cut this one loose and chalk it up to a learning experience. Because it certainly seems there was some good stuff to learn.


Clearly I feel more emotionally invested than he is. Heck, I'm on TAM asking for help.


----------



## ccpowerslave

oldshirt said:


> Ok fair enough, but how do we get to know someone?


Use the penis?


----------



## Zoomzoom

He's asked to come over Sunday night. I said yes. Hopefully we'll talk, but TBH, I'm losing interest too. It shouldn't be this hard to get laid after spending all this time with a guy. 

Dressing sexy and seduction is tempting, but I don't feel like he's earned it. I feel like I'm doing all the work and putting all the effort. And it's a turn off.

I've been on MANY dates/meetups (60 plus guys) since my separation/divorce 4 years ago. None of those guys interested me. I really wanted something with this guy, to see where things go.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Zoomzoom said:


> He's asked to come over Sunday night. I said yes. Hopefully we'll talk, but TBH, I'm losing interest too. It shouldn't be this hard to get laid after spending all this time with a guy.
> 
> Dressing sexy and seduction is tempting, but I don't feel like he's earned it. I feel like I'm doing all the work and putting all the effort. And it's a turn off.
> 
> I've been on MANY dates/meetups (60 plus guys) since my separation/divorce 4 years ago. None of those guys interested me. I really wanted something with this guy, to see where things go.


Your instincts are correct. Just remember that however you go about things and get things started now is how you'll be stuck doing them in the future and I don't think you'd be happy with having to chase him for sex.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Cletus said:


> And got what for his efforts?
> 
> Did you intentionally or not give him the answer as to how much his desire was appreciated? If you have subsequently taken off the parking brake, did you inform him that what was not wanted then is absolutely wanted now?
> 
> I smell two people too embarrassed or reluctant to have a much needed conversation about intimacy.


He got my time, affection, makeout sessions, hand holding, intimate conversations etc. Honestly I should bash him on the head. How much signaling does one guy need???


----------



## Zoomzoom

DownByTheRiver said:


> Your instincts are correct. Just remember that however you go about things and get things started now is how you'll be stuck doing them in the future and I don't think you'd be happy with having to chase him for sex.


Well, you're right. He did tell me his late wife wore the pants in their marriage, and he simply followed. Geez, I get where this is headed.


----------



## oldshirt

Zoomzoom said:


> Dressing sexy and seduction is tempting, but I don't feel like he's earned it. I feel like I'm doing all the work and putting all the effort. And it's a turn off.
> .


This statement is a bit contradictory. 

For several pages now you have been saying that you told him you wanted to wait but otherwise have not talked to him about sex, have not tried to seduce him or touch his junk or make any moves and apparently have not dressed sexy and seductive........ so exactly what "work and effort" have you put into trying to going to that level?????

I get that he's basically let you plan dates and stuff and I understand you'd like him to put in some more effort there. 

But it is a little disingenuous of you to say that you are doing all the work and effort of moving things into the sexual realm when you've literally said that you haven't said or done anything to get him into bed.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Zoomzoom said:


> Well, you're right. He did tell me his late wife wore the pants in their marriage, and he simply followed. Geez, I get where this is headed.


Yeah. Yuck. There's just not going to be any momentum to get excited about.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Grab him right in the penis! If he recoils or makes excuses you know you got a dud.


----------



## Zoomzoom

oldshirt said:


> This statement is a bit contradictory.
> 
> For several pages now you have been saying that you told him you wanted to wait but otherwise have not talked to him about sex, have not tried to seduce him or touch his junk or make any moves and apparently have not dressed sexy and seductive........ so exactly what "work and effort" have you put into trying to going to that level?????
> 
> I get that he's basically let you plan dates and stuff and I understand you'd like him to put in some more effort there.
> 
> But it is a little disingenuous of you to say that you are doing all the work and effort of moving things into the sexual realm when you've literally said that you haven't said or done anything to get him into bed.


I don't know. The guy I met on the first date (and subsequent dates) was excited and eager. He had that hunger, fire, desire. One stare was enough to get me hot and bothered. He initiated calls, texts, organized dates and reached out.

And this was after I told him my divorce wasn't final. He offered/agreed to wait for sex because I preferred it that way. He's religious, he said he wanted us to start on a clean slate, considering he's sensitive about adultery and the like.

This guy roughly pulled me to him, ran his hands over my body (not boobs), french kissed me with passion and hunger. I liked that, a lot.

Where did that guy go??? Who is this passive, disinterested guy I'm currently stuck with? I'm left scratching my head.


----------



## oldshirt

Zoomzoom said:


> He got my time, affection, makeout sessions, hand holding, intimate conversations etc. Honestly I should bash him on the head. How much signaling does one guy need???


One of the big differences between the girls and the boys is girls can pick up another woman's signs of interest better than any NORAD Early Detection System ever invented. A woman can tell another is wanting to jump some guys bones by seeing how she flexes an ankle or twitches her eye.... at 100 meters, through the fog and with one eye closed. 

Where as a lot of men are completely clueless. And even men that are reasonably emotionally intelligent have had a lifetime of being told NOT to assume women's social and emotional gestures and actions and smiles and laughs and touches and kisses and hugs and other signs of affection means that a woman wants to have sex. 

In today's world, a man can literally lose his job and even be arrested and charged with a criminal offense and end up on a sex offender registry if he misreads some subtle cue and thinks it is a green light for a sexual advance. 

So while I understand you wanting him to show more interest and initiative, let's at least have a little understanding of why a man may not be kicking down your bed room door. 

You may have to open your mouth and actually ask him about it. 

The issue I see that is troubling here, is if you two can't talk about something as fundamental and basic as attraction and desire and if you like each other,,, how are you ever going to be able to communicate about the important things in life if you do get into a serious relationship. 

There may be some kind of serious disconnect here if you can't even tell each other that you like and are attracted to each other and want to become more intimate.


----------



## Zoomzoom

ccpowerslave said:


> Grab him right in the penis! If he recoils or makes excuses you know you got a dud.


I'd better get liquored up on Sunday night, then.


----------



## oldshirt

Zoomzoom said:


> I don't know. The guy I met on the first date (and subsequent dates) was excited and eager. He had that hunger, fire, desire. One stare was enough to get me hot and bothered. He initiated calls, texts, organized dates and reached out.
> 
> And this was after I told him my divorce wasn't final. He offered/agreed to wait for sex because I preferred it that way. He's religious, he said he wanted us to start on a clean slate, considering he's sensitive about adultery and the like.
> 
> This guy roughly pulled me to him, ran his hands over my body (not boobs), french kissed me with passion and hunger. I liked that, a lot.
> 
> Where did that guy go??? Who is this passive, disinterested guy I'm currently stuck with? I'm left scratching my head.


You told that guy you wanted to wait and go slow. 

That was your last communication about it and you have not rescinded that request yet and have not told that guy he can resume his physical initiative.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Zoomzoom said:


> I don't know. The guy I met on the first date (and subsequent dates) was excited and eager. He had that hunger, fire, desire. One stare was enough to get me hot and bothered. He initiated calls, texts, organized dates and reached out.
> 
> And this was after I told him my divorce wasn't final. He offered/agreed to wait for sex because I preferred it that way. He's religious, he said he wanted us to start on a clean slate, considering he's sensitive about adultery and the like.
> 
> This guy roughly pulled me to him, ran his hands over my body (not boobs), french kissed me with passion and hunger. I liked that, a lot.
> 
> Where did that guy go??? Who is this passive, disinterested guy I'm currently stuck with? I'm left scratching my head.


That is just crazy! I don't know if it's a case of him trying to impress you early on and then not being able to keep that going or if feelings changed. It's even possible that he was more aggressive when he thought nothing was actually going to happen especially if he should have some kind of thing like ED.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

ccpowerslave said:


> Grab him right in the penis! If he recoils or makes excuses you know you got a dud.


Well, wouldn't that be fun?


----------



## Openminded

If you were capable of telling him to slow things down because you weren’t ready then you’re capable of telling him to speed things up now that you are. He likely has no clue.


----------



## frusdil

Diceplayer said:


> But since he is religious, he may not believe in sex outside of marriage. If that's the case, she won't know that unless they have a conversation. And if that's the case, she won't get what she is looking for and is wasting her time wishing and hoping and hoping and wishing. Just wanting someone to act a certain way doesn't make it happen.


If this is the case (which it appears it isn't given the later posts from OP), he should have communicated that to her from the start. I would be royally pissed to be dating a guy for 3 months, and then be told he won't be having sex until he's married. 

My husband and I waited about 2 months I reckon, maybe a little more, but we talked about it - lots, how we felt about it, what it means to us, and we made out LOTS, lol.

We're all adults here for god sake, this isn't high school. Add in the fact that you told him you wanted to wait, OP you need to talk to him about this now. The poor bloke is probably confused as hell!


----------



## LisaDiane

Zoomzoom said:


> He was literally in my bedroom last week, to "see" my closet space, then we kissed and he left. Ugh. He's been in my bedroom a few times when he visits.


I'm wondering...when you guys kissed in your room last week, WHO pulled away and moved to disengage the passion in the moment? Was it you or him? You say you kissed and he left...was that because he pulled away and stopped, or you?


----------



## heartsbeating

LisaDiane said:


> I'm wondering...when you guys kissed in your room last week, WHO pulled away and moved to disengage the passion in the moment? Was it you or him? You say you kissed and he left...was that because he pulled away and stopped, or you?


I was wondering the same thing.

As well as why was he there to “see” your closet space? …I feel like I’m missing the intention of the quotation marks.


----------



## marko polo

Zoomzoom said:


> Well, you're right. He did tell me his late wife wore the pants in their marriage, and he simply followed. Geez, I get where this is headed.


If he is used to being led by the nose then how/why is he casually dating other women? Dating women requires initiative.

Perhaps you have been friend zoned. If he isn't getting sex from you then likely he is getting it elsewhere. That is what casual dating is all about. If the sex dries up with one partner you move on to the next willing candidate.




Zoomzoom said:


> He got my time, affection, makeout sessions, hand holding, intimate conversations etc. Honestly I should bash him on the head. How much signaling does one guy need???


So it is alright if you vet him / wait 3 months but not ok if he takes his time and vets you?
Everything seems to hinge on your timetable as opposed to what might be best for the both of you.

You are throwing out signals that are easy enough to misinterpret especially in the era of Me Too. False allegation of rape, violence and/or abuse can end his quality of life as he knows it. Passions can be quickly cooled against the potential of losing all he has worked for and his freedom.

As others have already mentioned, you were quick enough to spell it out for him that there would be no sex early in your relationship. Rather than be clear right now and spell it out that sex is a go, you want to play charades? Does he know he is playing a game of charades? He doesn't read minds. You put a clear boundary in place. It isn't his place to remove it but yours.

There could be many other reasons why he isn't making a move. If you are dissatisfied with the situation and refuse to spell it our for him maybe you should just part ways.

He is religious. So are many mobsters, fraudsters, politicians and cheats. That doesn't mean he adheres to the doctrine any more than they do. A good liar makes many claims few if any prove true.


----------



## RandomDude

So much speculation, it's been 3 days since opening post and the 'talk' was meant to happen yesterday.


----------



## Openminded

RandomDude said:


> So much speculation, it's been 3 days since opening post and the 'talk' was meant to happen yesterday.


I think it’s supposed to be tonight (Sunday). OP lives in the U.S.


----------



## Zoomzoom

LisaDiane said:


> I'm wondering...when you guys kissed in your room last week, WHO pulled away and moved to disengage the passion in the moment? Was it you or him? You say you kissed and he left...was that because he pulled away and stopped, or you?


I lured him in there hoping he'd make a pass..he gave me a peck and left.


----------



## Zoomzoom

So, I had an interesting evening. I made dinner, wore something cute. He gave me the usual hug and peck on the lips, was rather aloof. Then we moved over to my couch and talked, watched some comedy clips.

I started touching his ear, and the hungry wolf in him was reborn (I'm thinking, hello, welcome back, I knew you were in there somewhere!) Things got extremely heated, wild, passionate, hands over each other, moaning, etc.. It was amazing. Honestly, I don't think I've ever experienced such passion. Maybe it was the sexual tension, it's been too long for me.

Clothes started coming off, he's pitching a massive tent, ready to go. Somehow, it was important to me that we talk first, so I stopped him, he was staring at me quizzically, asking what's wrong.

I asked him about protection and STDs, he said he'd not been tested in a while. I told him he'd better get tested first, nothing's happening. And I told him I expected sexual exclusivity, no more no less. He said he'd think about that. Seriously???

Then he asked me if I would like to get married someday, because he'd to remarry. I'm like can the ink dry on my divorce first? I hardly know you. He asked me if there's anything I like about him, said he liked me alot. I said I liked him too, but we needed to spend more time together and get to know each other first before talking about marriage. I mentioned the sparse contact when we're apart, etc.

Then he said he'd want to wait to have sex with me after we're married. I'm like dude???? He said his wife had been his first sexual partner (she'd had several partners) prior to marriage, he didn't believe in sex if marriage wasn't on the table. Sex clouded his judgment, he said.

Somehow the mood was gone, and I'm thinking what about all the women he's having sex with?

It got weirder still. He's a strong Catholic. Says I'm still bound to my ex for life, can we consider an annulment, so I can be free of him. Not even sure what that is, I'm divorced. Yikes. Why bring up annulments, sacraments and Catholicism now?

Anyway, no sex happened. It was hard to say goodbye, he said he'd like to continue seeing me. Looks like we're back on a stalemate. I'm more confused than ever.

As for that passion, hopefully I find that again. Still chasing that dragon.

Sorry guys. Sexually, the evening was a bust. Again.


----------



## heartsbeating

Zoomzoom said:


> So, I had an interesting evening. I made dinner, wore something cute. He gave me the usual hug and peck on the lips, was rather aloof. Then we moved over to my couch and talked, watched some comedy clips.
> 
> I started touching his ear, and the hungry wolf in him was reborn (I'm thinking, hello, welcome back, I knew you were in there somewhere!) Things got extremely heated, wild, passionate, hands over each other, moaning, etc.. It was amazing. Honestly, I don't think I've never experienced such passion.
> 
> Clothes started coming off, he's pitching a massive tent, ready to go. Somehow, it was important to me that we talk first, so I stopped him, he was staring at me quizzically, asking what's wrong.
> 
> I asked him about protection and STDs, he said he'd not been tested in a while. I told him he'd better get tested first, nothing's happening. And I told him I expected sexual exclusivity, no more no less. He said he'd think about that. Seriously???
> 
> Then he asked me if I would like to get married someday, because he'd to remarry. I'm like can the ink dry on my divorce first? I hardly know you. He asked me if there's anything I like about him, said he liked me alot. I said I liked him too, but we needed to spend more time together and get to know each other first before talking about marriage. I mentioned the sparse contact when we're apart, etc.
> 
> Then he said he'd want to wait to have sex with me after we're married. I'm like dude???? He said his wife had been his first sexual partner (she'd had several partners) prior to marriage, he didn't believe in sex if marriage wasn't on the table. Sex clouded his judgment, he said.
> 
> Somehow the mood was gone, and I'm thinking what about all the women he's having sex with?
> 
> It got weirder still. He's a strong Catholic. Says I'm still bound to my ex for life, can we consider an annulment, so I can be free of him. Not even sure what that is, I'm divorced. Yikes. Why bring up annulments, sacraments and Catholicism now?
> 
> Anyway, no sex happened. It was hard to say goodbye, he said he'd like to continue seeing me. Looks like we're back on a stalemate. I'm more confused than ever.
> 
> As for that passion, hopefully I find that again. Still chasing that dragon.
> 
> Sorry guys. Sexually, the evening was a bust. Again.


I know diddly-squat about current dating. Yet it hasn't stopped from me jumping into a thread before. I am utterly confused by this whole scenario. And understandably, you are too.

This is not intended as a criticism. I am confused that things got passionate and then you stopped to say that sexual intimacy wouldn't be advancing until he's tested. The confusion is why this hadn't been raised and discussed long before... unless it had and I've skipped a beat. Anyway, that's the first part that I don't get. And maybe it's not for me to get. Him saying that he'd need to think about sexual exclusivity, to me at first, actually was good; as in, he was being honest rather than saying 'yep, sure' just to appease you even if that's not what he wants. Okay, that's that...

Then all of the rest from that point on-wards I really do not understand at all.

The very feeble suggestion I could put your way, is simply to really know what you want and what you're about. Then navigate from that place, and which theoretically would then provide congruence. It tends to help filter out confusion, and instead gives way to clarity.


----------



## Deejo

You two sound perfect for each other.

Hope it works out.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Deejo said:


> You two sound perfect for each other.
> 
> Hope it works out.


Seriously? What did I do?


----------



## Zoomzoom

heartsbeating said:


> I know diddly-squat about current dating. Yet it hasn't stopped from me jumping into a thread before. I am utterly confused by this whole scenario. And understandably, you are too.
> 
> This is not intended as a criticism. I am confused that things got passionate and then you stopped to say that sexual intimacy wouldn't be advancing until he's tested. The confusion is why this hadn't been raised and discussed long before... unless it had and I've skipped a beat. Anyway, that's the first part that I don't get. And maybe it's not for me to get. Him saying that he'd need to think about sexual exclusivity, to me at first, actually was good; as in, he was being honest rather than saying 'yep, sure' just to appease you even if that's not what he wants. Okay, that's that...
> 
> Then all of the rest from that point on-wards I really do not understand at all.
> 
> The very feeble suggestion I could put your way, is simply to really know what you want and what you're about. Then navigate from that place, and which theoretically would then provide congruence. It tends to help filter out confusion, and instead gives way to clarity.


We've never discussed testing. This was the first time I brought it up.


----------



## heartsbeating

Zoomzoom said:


> We've never discussed testing. This was the first time I brought it up.


I winced reading this.

Reason being from (somewhat skim-reading) your thread, I garnered that you told him from the start that you wanted to 'wait' somewhat before engaging in sexual intimacy, and now it's been about 3 months, you are wanting him to advance things. Yet, as others have suggested, there's not been communication of what that really means. And he, for whatever reason up until now, hasn't actively pursued more sexual interactions with you as - if I've got this right - you have held hands and snogged, and remained fully clothed. Hence, the wincing that if you knew that you wanted him to be tested (and which ought to be reciprocated, in my view) then my mind boggles why this hadn't been discussed already, and then also that you would only be sexual if he is exclusive with you. Therefore, typing this response, I also don't get the premise of the thread at all now.


----------



## Openminded

Zoomzoom said:


> Seriously? What did I do?


Well, let’s see — maybe that you waited to the point that clothes were coming off to have that discussion?


----------



## heartsbeating

Deejo said:


> You two sound perfect for each other.
> 
> Hope it works out.


Short response there @Deejo ...and you may have summarized accurately.


----------



## sideways

You say you hardly know him but the majority of this thread has been you complaining about him not willing to have sex with you. So tonight when things heated up (you slammed on the breaks and you have every right to do) but with a laundry list of demands? 

If it were me I would have made up a lie just to get the hell out of there.


----------



## oldshirt

You both really suck at basic communication. Good Lord you sound worse than those teen sex movies from the '80s where the goof balls can't even get laid in a whorehouse. 

He has to think you're schizophrenic or something the way you run hot and cold, and he sounds like a complete whackadoodle wanting to get married after a make out on the couch after 3 months of arm's length dating. 

And what's with this annulment bullcrap?? Is he or is he not banging other chicks? Is he trying to get them to get annulled and marry him too?


----------



## Deejo

heartsbeating said:


> Short response there @Deejo ...and you may have summarized accurately.


I put the suc in succinct.

Not joking here. This has been a learning moment for me.
If I ever find myself in a circumstance where I'm hot and heavy with a date and she puts on the brakes like @Zoomzoom did; I am absolutely following up with, "Do you see yourself getting married again? Because I want to be married. And if we're going to be married, we should probably just wait to have sex. Because I really like you. Oh and also, do me a favor, go the extra mile and get an annulment."

That is Omega level game right there, and it's more creative than ghosting.


----------



## heartsbeating

Deejo said:


> I put the suc in succinct.


Classic.


----------



## Zoomzoom

heartsbeating said:


> I winced reading this.
> 
> Reason being from (somewhat skim-reading) your thread, I garnered that you told him from the start that you wanted to 'wait' somewhat before engaging in sexual intimacy, and now it's been about 3 months, you are wanting him to advance things. Yet, as others have suggested, there's not been communication of what that really means. And he, for whatever reason up until now, hasn't actively pursued more sexual interactions with you as - if I've got this right - you have held hands and snogged, and remained fully clothed. Hence, the wincing that if you knew that you wanted him to be tested (and which ought to be reciprocated, in my view) then my mind boggles why this hadn't been discussed already, and then also that you would only be sexual if he is exclusive with you. Therefore, typing this response, I also don't get the premise of the thread at all now.


I know, I should have opened my mouth and said something. This is a classic case of poor communication on both ends. He warned me that he's always been known as a poor communicator in his family and circle of friends.

I'm kicking myself as we speak. Lesson learned.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Deejo said:


> I put the suc in succinct.
> 
> Not joking here. This has been a learning moment for me.
> If I ever find myself in a circumstance where I'm hot and heavy with a date and she puts on the brakes like @Zoomzoom did; I am absolutely following up with, "Do you see yourself getting married again? Because I want to be married. And if we're going to be married, we should probably just wait to have sex. Because I really like you. Oh and also, do me a favor, go the extra mile and get an annulment."
> 
> That is Omega level game right there, and it's more creative than ghosting.


I get that, but if a chick invited you for a romantic dinner (it's the first time I've cooked, we've been going out and doing things), wouldn't you bring protection???

I put a stop to it really because he didn't have any, then things start going downhill from there. My serial cheater ex gave me a curable STD (didn't mention this to the guy), and I freaked out. No way a penis having (presumably unprotected) sex with other women is getting into me.

But I agree with you, it was so hard to stop. He must be feeling like ****. Maybe I've been dumped. If so, I'll be heartbroken. He did say he wanted to keep seeing me, though. We'll see if he does. Ugh.


----------



## Zoomzoom

oldshirt said:


> You both really suck at basic communication. Good Lord you sound worse than those teen sex movies from the '80s where the goof balls can't even get laid in a whorehouse.
> 
> He has to think you're schizophrenic or something the way you run hot and cold, and he sounds like a complete whackadoodle wanting to get married after a make out on the couch after 3 months of arm's length marriage. And what's with this annulment bullcrap?? Is he or is he not banging other chicks? Is he trying to get them to get annulled and marry him too?



Oldshirt, Deejo thinks those were just creative excuses to dump me. Ouch.

The guy was a late bloomer. A little socially awkward. He didn't lose his virginity until early thirties, so sex probably means something to him. He's a very brilliant, high functioning mathematician, and he's a poor communicator, he told me. I guess that makes two of us.

He also told me he found out his wife had drawn up divorce papers and was about to have him served before her death. So he felt so betrayed, started banging everything that moved to cope after she died.

I hate, hate, that the evening ended like that, and it sucks that I may have been dumped.


----------



## Zoomzoom

sideways said:


> You say you hardly know him but the majority of this thread has been you complaining about him not willing to have sex with you. So tonight when things heated up (you slammed on the breaks and you have every right to do) but with a laundry list of demands?
> 
> If it were me I would have made up a lie just to get the hell out of there.


I hope he comes back. I screwed up royally, but couldn't fathom how a 52yo guy wouldn't have protection on him. 

The whole conversation went downhill because of no protection. He had nothing on him.

I agree with the rest of your post.


----------



## RandomDude

Zoomzoom said:


> So, I had an interesting evening. I made dinner, wore something cute. He gave me the usual hug and peck on the lips, was rather aloof. Then we moved over to my couch and talked, watched some comedy clips.
> 
> I started touching his ear, and the hungry wolf in him was reborn (I'm thinking, hello, welcome back, I knew you were in there somewhere!) Things got extremely heated, wild, passionate, hands over each other, moaning, etc.. It was amazing. Honestly, I don't think I've ever experienced such passion. Maybe it was the sexual tension, it's been too long for me.
> 
> *Clothes started coming off, he's pitching a massive tent, ready to go. Somehow, it was important to me that we talk first, so I stopped him, he was staring at me quizzically, asking what's wrong.
> 
> I asked him about protection and STDs, he said he'd not been tested in a while. I told him he'd better get tested first, nothing's happening. And I told him I expected sexual exclusivity, no more no less. He said he'd think about that. Seriously???
> 
> Then he asked me if I would like to get married someday, because he'd to remarry. I'm like can the ink dry on my divorce first? I hardly know you. He asked me if there's anything I like about him, said he liked me alot. I said I liked him too, but we needed to spend more time together and get to know each other first before talking about marriage. I mentioned the sparse contact when we're apart, etc.
> 
> Then he said he'd want to wait to have sex with me after we're married. I'm like dude???? He said his wife had been his first sexual partner (she'd had several partners) prior to marriage, he didn't believe in sex if marriage wasn't on the table. Sex clouded his judgment, he said.
> 
> Somehow the mood was gone, and I'm thinking what about all the women he's having sex with?*
> 
> It got weirder still. He's a strong Catholic. Says I'm still bound to my ex for life, can we consider an annulment, so I can be free of him. Not even sure what that is, I'm divorced. Yikes. Why bring up annulments, sacraments and Catholicism now?
> 
> Anyway, no sex happened. It was hard to say goodbye, he said he'd like to continue seeing me. Looks like we're back on a stalemate. I'm more confused than ever.
> 
> As for that passion, hopefully I find that again. Still chasing that dragon.
> 
> Sorry guys. Sexually, the evening was a bust. Again.


Way to leave both of you hanging! 🤦‍♂️










Erm, ideally, you have those conversations prior to all of this.
Hell even I like sexual tension but this is something else... I would be turned off completely to the point it's time to move on.


----------



## Zoomzoom

RandomDude said:


> Way to leave both of you hanging! 🤦‍♂️
> 
> Erm, ideally, you have those conversations prior to all of this.
> Hell even I like sexual tension but this is something else... I would be turned off completely to the point it's time to move on.



Should I chase him one last time, offer a rematch? I feel terrible.


----------



## RandomDude

For me the deal breaker would have been the Jesus bomb he dropped. But ok...

You need to discuss both your expectations and determine your compatibility. It's 3 months overdue, what you guys end up talking about instead of sex should have been discussed by 1st month.


----------



## Young at Heart

I am going to ask the women who are following this post to respond. Is it me or does some of Zoom Zoom's language seem a little off? The comment about. ".....Clothes started coming off, he's pitching a massive tent, ready to go...." is something I have never heard a woman say. I may have lead a sheltered life, so ladies correct me if I this is the kind of language you would use. That guy must have some sensitive earlobes.

Ok, I have been out of the dating scene for a long time, married 50+ years, but in my youth a dated several young women. I would say I even dated a couple of real "[email protected]" But wow.

Absolutely important (and critical in this day and age) to discuss STD's, protection, need for exclusivity, but usually it was done well before the clothings started to be scattered all over the floor. The other important topic is explicit consent, but that can be done with a simple, "I hope you want to make love as much as I do" and see what they say. 

Oh well I bet that the OP probably had fun and learned a lot.


----------



## Zoomzoom

English isn't my first language. I'm doing the best I can to articulate myself. Maybe language barrier is part of the problem. Communication breakdown. The dude is from Texas.


----------



## heartsbeating

I don't know whether the language is off or not... I tell ya what is more off for me though, that OP didn't have any forms of protection at the ready herself. 

My tail is starting to twitch though, and so that's my cue for jumping out.


----------



## Young at Heart

Zoomzoom said:


> Should I chase him one last time, offer a rematch? I feel terrible.


You are a big girl and get to choose whatever you feel is best. Then again he is a big boy and gets to do what he wants.

Shaking head. ❓❗❓ If the dude is from Texas, that explains a lot, at least to me. When you talk to him about protection next time also ask to see his vaccination status card and his CHL card (unless he is one of those Constitutional guys). You can't be too careful.

If you really, really like him and show him how much you care for him, my suggestion would be to send him a $200 gift certificate to a local massage parlor in the shady part of town. 

After his last date he probably has the worst case of of "blue balls" in a three-state area. But then again, his kink might be tease and denial. If it is, I doubt he is having sex with anybody else and you are probably his perfect partner.

P.S. I will try to help a little bit more: ".......Says I'm still bound to my ex for life, can we consider an annulment, so I can be free of him. *Not even sure what that is,* ......."

If you do hook up and get serious, an annulment to the Catholic church is sort of like a formal Mulligan in golf, but with a lot more paperwork and justification. You might ask your guy if you could qualify for the Pauline Privilege annulment, by converting and marrying him? 

If he is really that "old school" about sex and marriage, don't be surprised if he doesn't ask you how you feel about Hymenoplasty surgery. Some of those Texas Catholics are incredibly old school.

Again, I wish the both of you the best of luck. May you both find happiness. I think I will join Heartsbeating. Bye.


----------



## In Absentia

Zoomzoom said:


> I get that, but if a chick invited you for a romantic dinner (it's the first time I've cooked, we've been going out and doing things), *wouldn't you bring protection*???


Not me... I don't like going to dates expecting sex. If I go for a romantic evening, and then there is the possibility of sex afterwards, we'll have sex the next time. I'm not going to pull a condom out of my pocket!


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

It was when you stated you expected exclusivity, before anything really happened.

That is what he said he'd have to think about. Understandable.


----------



## LisaDiane

Zoomzoom said:


> I hope he comes back. I screwed up royally, but couldn't fathom how a 52yo guy wouldn't have protection on him.
> 
> The whole conversation went downhill because of no protection. He had nothing on him.
> 
> I agree with the rest of your post.


There are so many fun sexual things you could have done to ENCOURAGE his desire and attraction to you, that you don't need protection for. Why would you stop any and all sexual activity because of no condom or STD test?


----------



## oldshirt

Zoomzoom said:


> The guy was a late bloomer. A little socially awkward. He didn't lose his virginity until early thirties, so sex probably means something to him. He's a very brilliant, high functioning mathematician, and he's a poor communicator, he told me. I guess that makes two of us.
> 
> He also told me he found out his wife had drawn up divorce papers and was about to have him served before her death. So he felt so betrayed, started banging everything that moved to cope after she died.


Somewhere earlier in the thread you said you’ve dated 60 some men since your divorce but that none of them were any good.

Is this guy really the best where you are????


----------



## ccpowerslave

Not bringing some condoms means the guy is maybe kind of not so bright or he’s REALLY Catholic. I wouldn’t even go out on a first date without a few condoms just in case.


----------



## LisaDiane

Zoomzoom said:


> So, I had an interesting evening. I made dinner, wore something cute. He gave me the usual hug and peck on the lips, was rather aloof. Then we moved over to my couch and talked, watched some comedy clips.
> 
> I started touching his ear, and the hungry wolf in him was reborn (I'm thinking, hello, welcome back, I knew you were in there somewhere!) Things got extremely heated, wild, passionate, hands over each other, moaning, etc.. It was amazing. Honestly, I don't think I've ever experienced such passion. Maybe it was the sexual tension, it's been too long for me.
> 
> Clothes started coming off, he's pitching a massive tent, ready to go. Somehow, it was important to me that we talk first, so I stopped him, he was staring at me quizzically, asking what's wrong.
> 
> I asked him about protection and STDs, he said he'd not been tested in a while. I told him he'd better get tested first, nothing's happening. And I told him I expected sexual exclusivity, no more no less. He said he'd think about that. Seriously???
> 
> Then he asked me if I would like to get married someday, because he'd to remarry. I'm like can the ink dry on my divorce first? I hardly know you. He asked me if there's anything I like about him, said he liked me alot. I said I liked him too, but we needed to spend more time together and get to know each other first before talking about marriage. I mentioned the sparse contact when we're apart, etc.
> 
> Then he said he'd want to wait to have sex with me after we're married. I'm like dude???? He said his wife had been his first sexual partner (she'd had several partners) prior to marriage, he didn't believe in sex if marriage wasn't on the table. Sex clouded his judgment, he said.
> 
> Somehow the mood was gone, and I'm thinking what about all the women he's having sex with?
> 
> It got weirder still. He's a strong Catholic. Says I'm still bound to my ex for life, can we consider an annulment, so I can be free of him. Not even sure what that is, I'm divorced. Yikes. Why bring up annulments, sacraments and Catholicism now?
> 
> Anyway, no sex happened. It was hard to say goodbye, he said he'd like to continue seeing me. Looks like we're back on a stalemate. I'm more confused than ever.
> 
> As for that passion, hopefully I find that again. Still chasing that dragon.
> 
> Sorry guys. Sexually, the evening was a bust. Again.


Also, if he's a strong Catholic, he would know that Jesus said divorce WAS allowed for sexual sins, so if your husband cheated, you are allowed to get divorced. You aren't "bound to your ex for life" in that case.


----------



## oldshirt

Zoomzoom said:


> Should I chase him one last time, offer a rematch?


This has been going on for 3 months.

A rematch is going to result in either more of the same or some other kind of comedy of errors that’s not really all that funny. 

You both are probably perfectly good, decent people. 

But together you are a slow motion train wreck LOL. 

But anyway my point is this is how it is and most likely how it will be going forward.


----------



## leftfield

LisaDiane said:


> There are so many fun sexual things you could have done to ENCOURAGE his desire and attraction to you, that you don't need protection for. Why would you stop any and all sexual activity because of no condom or STD test?


Could you share a few of these ideas?

Some of us in the peanut gallery have only ever been with one/limited number of people and can always use some help. Plus the OP might need some help in her future planning.


----------



## LisaDiane

leftfield said:


> Could you share a few of these ideas?
> 
> Some of us in the peanut gallery have only ever been with one/limited number of people and can always use some help. Plus the OP might need some help in her future planning.


Are you really asking me? 
Because I've only been with two partners...but I still know that PIV isn't the only way to give sexual pleasure.


----------



## Quad73

In Absentia said:


> Not me... I don't like going to dates expecting sex. If I go for a romantic evening, and then there is the possibility of sex afterwards, we'll have sex the next time. I'm not going to pull a condom out of my pocket!


Plus he stated he's not having sex before marriage, so why would he bring a condom?

Also, he's had a lot of sex before marriage lately (just not with her).

It does not add up. 

It's a big muddled pile of non & miscommunication on both sides; not just you OP, it's both of you. 

Who knows what he's thinking and hasn't told you OP? 

Who knows what you're thinking and haven't told him? 

You don't know. 

And you both unknowingly p/c tease & run hot / cold like water taps.

This, along with other issues you mention like his passivity, unspoken religious requirements etc - I don't know if carrying on with this is a good idea. Sounds like sorrow and frustration to me.


----------



## Cletus

Zoomzoom said:


> Clothes started coming off, he's pitching a massive tent, ready to go. Somehow, it was important to me that we talk first, so I stopped him, he was staring at me quizzically, asking what's wrong.
> 
> I asked him about protection and STDs, he said he'd not been tested in a while. I told him he'd better get tested first, nothing's happening. And I told him I expected sexual exclusivity, no more no less. He said he'd think about that. Seriously???


Jesus Tapdancing Christ, you picked THIS moment to have that conversation? You might as well have thrown a bucket of ice water in his crotch. This is the stuff you talk about BEFORE the tent stakes have been pounded into the ground.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Zoomzoom said:


> So, I had an interesting evening. I made dinner, wore something cute. He gave me the usual hug and peck on the lips, was rather aloof. Then we moved over to my couch and talked, watched some comedy clips.
> 
> I started touching his ear, and the hungry wolf in him was reborn (I'm thinking, hello, welcome back, I knew you were in there somewhere!) Things got extremely heated, wild, passionate, hands over each other, moaning, etc.. It was amazing. Honestly, I don't think I've ever experienced such passion. Maybe it was the sexual tension, it's been too long for me.
> 
> Clothes started coming off, he's pitching a massive tent, ready to go. Somehow, it was important to me that we talk first, so I stopped him, he was staring at me quizzically, asking what's wrong.
> 
> I asked him about protection and STDs, he said he'd not been tested in a while. I told him he'd better get tested first, nothing's happening. And I told him I expected sexual exclusivity, no more no less. He said he'd think about that. Seriously???
> 
> Then he asked me if I would like to get married someday, because he'd to remarry. I'm like can the ink dry on my divorce first? I hardly know you. He asked me if there's anything I like about him, said he liked me alot. I said I liked him too, but we needed to spend more time together and get to know each other first before talking about marriage. I mentioned the sparse contact when we're apart, etc.
> 
> Then he said he'd want to wait to have sex with me after we're married. I'm like dude???? He said his wife had been his first sexual partner (she'd had several partners) prior to marriage, he didn't believe in sex if marriage wasn't on the table. Sex clouded his judgment, he said.
> 
> Somehow the mood was gone, and I'm thinking what about all the women he's having sex with?
> 
> It got weirder still. He's a strong Catholic. Says I'm still bound to my ex for life, can we consider an annulment, so I can be free of him. Not even sure what that is, I'm divorced. Yikes. Why bring up annulments, sacraments and Catholicism now?
> 
> Anyway, no sex happened. It was hard to say goodbye, he said he'd like to continue seeing me. Looks like we're back on a stalemate. I'm more confused than ever.
> 
> As for that passion, hopefully I find that again. Still chasing that dragon.
> 
> Sorry guys. Sexually, the evening was a bust. Again.


You really don't want to have sex with him. That is the only conclusion I can get from this. You got the exact response you wanted from him then you put the brakes on. I don't think you are ready for a sexual relationship yet.


----------



## Cletus

Zoomzoom said:


> I hope he comes back. I screwed up royally, but couldn't fathom how a 52yo guy wouldn't have protection on him.


Girl, you could write a novel the length of Ulysses on the things you two (and the rest of us, for that matter) can't fathom about each other.


----------



## leftfield

LisaDiane said:


> Are you really asking me?
> Because I've only been with two partners...but I still know that PIV isn't the only way to give sexual pleasure.


Yes, I asked if you wanted to impart some ideas. At this point, this is essentially a thread jack, so lets just leave it.


----------



## sideways

If your ex gave you an STD why would you be leaving it up to the guy to have protection? You're the one that was wanting things to heat up. You know where a pharmacy is, why couldn't you pick up some protection?

Hopefully a lesson learned here. Just learn how to communicate better.

Don't beat yourself up about this.


----------



## In Absentia

ccpowerslave said:


> Not bringing some condoms means the guy is maybe kind of not so bright or he’s REALLY Catholic. I wouldn’t even go out on a first date without a few condoms just in case.


Some people don't like to have expectations or are a bit old-fashion. As a gentleman, you just don't go to dates with condoms in your pockets. It's not very refined...  You can do other things and make sure you have condoms the next time....


----------



## oldshirt

In Absentia said:


> Some people don't like to have expectations or are a bit old-fashion. As a gentleman, you just don't go to dates with condoms in your pockets. It's not very refined...


You can be refined, or you can be a responsible adult.

Now to be fair to him, she told him she wanted to wait and then came on to him and then as things were getting hot and heavy she threw a bucket of ice water on him and wanted to see his papers and put her expectations completely on him to be the responsible party. She should have taken some adult responsibility as well.

I hope the hyper fertile teenagers of the world are acting more responsibly than these two.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Zoomzoom said:


> So, I had an interesting evening. I made dinner, wore something cute. He gave me the usual hug and peck on the lips, was rather aloof. Then we moved over to my couch and talked, watched some comedy clips.
> 
> I started touching his ear, and the hungry wolf in him was reborn (I'm thinking, hello, welcome back, I knew you were in there somewhere!) Things got extremely heated, wild, passionate, hands over each other, moaning, etc.. It was amazing. Honestly, I don't think I've ever experienced such passion. Maybe it was the sexual tension, it's been too long for me.
> 
> Clothes started coming off, he's pitching a massive tent, ready to go. Somehow, it was important to me that we talk first, so I stopped him, he was staring at me quizzically, asking what's wrong.
> 
> I asked him about protection and STDs, he said he'd not been tested in a while. I told him he'd better get tested first, nothing's happening. And I told him I expected sexual exclusivity, no more no less. He said he'd think about that. Seriously???
> 
> Then he asked me if I would like to get married someday, because he'd to remarry. I'm like can the ink dry on my divorce first? I hardly know you. He asked me if there's anything I like about him, said he liked me alot. I said I liked him too, but we needed to spend more time together and get to know each other first before talking about marriage. I mentioned the sparse contact when we're apart, etc.
> 
> Then he said he'd want to wait to have sex with me after we're married. I'm like dude???? He said his wife had been his first sexual partner (she'd had several partners) prior to marriage, he didn't believe in sex if marriage wasn't on the table. Sex clouded his judgment, he said.
> 
> Somehow the mood was gone, and I'm thinking what about all the women he's having sex with?
> 
> It got weirder still. He's a strong Catholic. Says I'm still bound to my ex for life, can we consider an annulment, so I can be free of him. Not even sure what that is, I'm divorced. Yikes. Why bring up annulments, sacraments and Catholicism now?
> 
> Anyway, no sex happened. It was hard to say goodbye, he said he'd like to continue seeing me. Looks like we're back on a stalemate. I'm more confused than ever.
> 
> As for that passion, hopefully I find that again. Still chasing that dragon.
> 
> Sorry guys. Sexually, the evening was a bust. Again.


Look, I'm just going to say it: He's too weird. Run.


----------



## bobert

Zoomzoom said:


> I get that, but if a chick invited you for a romantic dinner (it's the first time I've cooked, we've been going out and doing


If you were hoping for sex and knew damn well what your goal was, why wouldn't YOU have condoms?

Do not place the blame on him. 

As for why he wouldn't bring condoms? Why would he expect sex after 3 months of nothing, and having you saying no sex and never having another conversation about it? Little presumptuous.


----------



## Cletus

oldshirt said:


> I hope the hyper fertile teenagers of the world are acting more responsibly than these two.


I'm starting to think that this is exactly what we are witnessing.


----------



## In Absentia

oldshirt said:


> You can be refined, or you can be a responsible adult.


What do you mean by responsible adult? If I don't have a condom, I don't have sex on a date. I find it rather prehistoric to go on a date expecting sex, like a dog in heat.


----------



## Cletus

In Absentia said:


> What do you mean by responsible adult? If I don't have a condom, I don't have sex on a date. I find it rather prehistoric to go on a date expecting sex, like a dog in heat.


"I left my condoms in my smoking jacket" is a perfectly defensible position.


----------



## ccpowerslave

In Absentia said:


> Some people don't like to have expectations or are a bit old-fashion. As a gentleman, you just don't go to dates with condoms in your pockets. It's not very refined...  You can do other things and make sure you have condoms the next time....


I have usually only ever been referred to as gentleman as “gentleman” with the quotes in a sarcastic way so this is on brand.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda...I'm kicking myself so hard!!! You guys are brutal, but I needed that kick in the ass.

Lessons learned.

His texting frequency has increased, so looks like he's going to be just fine, too.

I've never felt so much passion/fire like I did last night. I'm stupefied, and we didn't even get to sex. It's difficult to concentrate today. I've decided to continue chasing this dragon to wherever it leads.

Thanks everyone!!! Here's to wishing I finally get ravished on Friday night. This time, I'm ready. And I'll duct tape my mouth until we're done.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Zoomzoom said:


> Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda...I'm kicking myself so hard!!! You guys are brutal, but I needed that kick in the ass.
> 
> Lessons learned.
> 
> His texting frequency has increased, so looks like he's going to be just fine, too.
> 
> I've never felt so much passion/fire like I did last night. I'm stupefied, and we didn't even get to sex. It's difficult to concentrate today. I've decided to continue chasing this dragon to wherever it leads.
> 
> Thanks everyone!!! Here's to wishing I finally get ravished on Friday night. This time, I'm ready. And I'll duct tape my mouth until we're done.


What a drama this has been!

I'm 58 m and I can kind of relate to some of what your guy has been doing. Not all of it, there's definitely some weirdness. But generally speaking if I got with someone I wanted to keep around, I'd be super-respectful of her feelings and boundaries. Maybe to a fault. I think many others have been also saying this is a possibility.

After a 'not yet' discussion I wouldn't expect sex to happen on some random Sunday in February, so maybe wouldn't plan ahead with condoms. It seems reasonable to me.

But the other thing I really wanted to add is that I am HORRIBLE at hints. It drives my wife nuts, especially at Christmas time. Call me a Neanderthal if you want but I need more direct conversation or I won't get it. Maybe he's the same way?

Best of luck on Friday Zoom. As far as duct taping your mouth, I can think of a few reasons not to do that, not the least of which is so you can communicate what you like.


----------



## In Absentia

Cletus said:


> "I left my condoms in my smoking jacket" is a perfectly defensible position.


love this…


----------



## In Absentia

ccpowerslave said:


> I have usually only ever been referred to as gentleman as “gentleman” with the quotes in a sarcastic way so this is on brand.


love this too… 😊


----------



## LisaDiane

Zoomzoom said:


> Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda...I'm kicking myself so hard!!! You guys are brutal, but I needed that kick in the ass.
> 
> Lessons learned.
> 
> His texting frequency has increased, so looks like he's going to be just fine, too.
> 
> I've never felt so much passion/fire like I did last night. I'm stupefied, and we didn't even get to sex. It's difficult to concentrate today. I've decided to continue chasing this dragon to wherever it leads.
> 
> Thanks everyone!!! Here's to wishing I finally get ravished on Friday night. This time, I'm ready. And I'll duct tape my mouth until we're done.


Maybe make an agreement with yourself that you aren't going to stop him anymore unless you actually DON'T want to have sex with him.


----------



## hamadryad

LisaDiane said:


> Maybe make an agreement with yourself that you aren't going to stop him anymore unless you actually DON'T want to have sex with him.


Word....

FFS after all of this she should have got the Saran Wrap out of the cupboards and hand it to him... 😂


----------



## RandomDude

Zoomzoom said:


> Thanks everyone!!! Here's to wishing I finally get ravished on Friday night. This time, I'm ready.* And I'll duct tape my mouth until we're done.*


Good idea, even better if you hand him the duct tape once you're done.


----------



## Deejo

Zoomzoom said:


> I get that, but if a chick invited you for a romantic dinner (it's the first time I've cooked, we've been going out and doing things), wouldn't you bring protection???
> 
> I put a stop to it really because he didn't have any, then things start going downhill from there. My serial cheater ex gave me a curable STD (didn't mention this to the guy), and I freaked out. No way a penis having (presumably unprotected) sex with other women is getting into me.
> 
> But I agree with you, it was so hard to stop. He must be feeling like ****. Maybe I've been dumped. If so, I'll be heartbroken. He did say he wanted to keep seeing me, though. We'll see if he does. Ugh.


Negative.

I'm 'fixed'. I have a vasectomy. One of the first things I did following my divorce, knowing full well I was going to be having sex as a middle aged adult, and did not want to have any surprises. I have had requests for STD panels, which I'm fine with, but the request usually came during dinner and drinks, or during conversations about becoming intimate ... not once we were already horizontal and half naked. Generally that means to me, as in your case, that a woman has contracted an STD at some point and doesn't want to do so again, which is fine. As pointed out by another poster, however, if you are asking him to have one; were I him, I'd be asking to see the results of your test as well.

Pretty apparent at this point that you are very attracted to this guy. And you indicated in a later post that he still seems very interested in you ... which doesn't surprise me now that he KNOWS sex is very much on the table.

Still lots of red flags. But neither of you seem to mind, which may work out just fine.

My only advice would to be far more proactive in getting the information you want as the relationship progresses, rather than reactive after you have added sex to the emotional mix.

It isn't clear to me if he is actively dating and being intimate with other women, which is entirely his choice, but without that information, you can't make a choice for you.

Demanding exclusivity, is a lot different than discussing exclusivity.

Unless or until I'm discussing exclusivity with a dating partner, I fully assume that they are actively dating other people. I advise anyone in the dating arena to presume as much.

I know plenty of religious people that do not let their spirituality interfere with their bedroom antics ... but again, I'm talking about state side. I'm 56, if I am dating a woman between the ages of 36 to 56 who has previously been married and already has kids and she wants to pretend she's on round 2 of virginity, I'm a hard pass. In your case however, it seems the roles are reversed. I'd suggest getting that sorted out before further emotionally investing yourself as well.

And in wrapping up, I absolutely do hope that you find a relationship that you feel good about, and provides you with what you want and need. Whether it is this man or not.


----------



## LisaDiane

Deejo said:


> I'm 56, if I am dating a woman between the ages of 36 to 56 who has previously been married and already has kids and *she wants to pretend she's on round 2 of virginity*, I'm a hard pass. In your case however, it seems the roles are reversed.


What does this mean?


----------



## LisaDiane

hamadryad said:


> Word....
> 
> FFS after all of this she should have got the Saran Wrap out of the cupboards and hand it to him... 😂


What about hands...?? Hands can give LOTS of pleasure, not condoms or tests needed!!!


----------



## Deejo

LisaDiane said:


> What does this mean?


@LisaDiane withholding sex, under the misguided belief that her partner has to 'earn' it, that it is transactional (no marriage, no sex), or that he will think less of her.


----------



## Livvie

Deejo said:


> @LisaDiane withholding sex, under the misguided belief that her partner has to 'earn' it, that it is transactional (no marriage, no sex), or that he will think less of her.


What about waiting to have sex until you know each other better?

I refuse to have sex until I know someone and I don't have casual one night or casual dating sex. 

Why is that a bad thing???

I've never had a one night or casual sex in my life and I'm not gonna start now.


----------



## Evinrude58

Bringing a condom on a date is ungentlemanly and/or presumptuous???????
Geez dude. 

Even Boy Scouts were taught to be prepared.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Evinrude58 said:


> Bringing a condom on a date is ungentlemanly and/or presumptuous???????
> Geez dude.
> 
> Even Boy Scouts were taught to be prepared.


What's scary is how men of all ages (especially 50 plus) are putting their health at risk, wanting to have sex with NO protection. I'm in shock.


----------



## Deejo

Livvie said:


> What about waiting to have sex until you know each other better?
> 
> I refuse to have sex until I know someone and I don't have casual one night or casual dating sex.
> 
> Why is that a bad thing???
> 
> I've never had a one night or casual sex in my life and I'm not gonna start now.


Ok. How long does that take? 
I didn't say it's a bad thing. 

I'm going to start a new thread based on your question, because I am curious. Not looking to set you, or any other woman up, and don't want to bog down Zoomzoom's thread. But I am curious.

In this case, the couple has been together for over 90 days, and she DOES want to have sex.


----------



## Evinrude58

Every time I see a Livvie post, I find myself saying “hello Livvie” in my most Thurston Howell-like voice…. Maybe it’s just me.😋

yeah, what’s the time length Livvie?


----------



## Livvie

Deejo said:


> Ok. How long does that take?
> I didn't say it's a bad thing.
> 
> I'm going to start a new thread based on your question, because I am curious. Not looking to set you, or any other woman up, and don't want to bog down Zoomzoom's thread. But I am curious.
> 
> In this case, the couple has been together for over 90 days, and she DOES want to have sex.


It's taken as little as 2 weeks in the past!

I've never had sex w someone I didn't end up in a LTR with.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Livvie said:


> It's taken as little as 2 weeks in the past!
> 
> I've never had sex w someone I didn't end up in a LTR with.


Me neither  I'm still on the first one!


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Just hanging out to see how Friday goes. Curiosity I guess.
Will zoom be like: 👩‍❤️‍👨
Or like: 🏃‍♂️
Does Vegas know about this situation? 💰


----------



## David60525

Zoomzoom said:


> Older gentleman (52), younger me (37). Here lies the problem. Limited texts. Typically good morning, good night, and to confirm a date. We've kissed and made out. It's been 3 months with many dates. We basically meet, have lots of fun together, good, deep conversation, and kiss goodbye. No phone calls between dates. I typically feel like we're strangers again each time we meet.
> 
> I arrange for all dates...he stopped giving ideas. He'll simply ask what I have in mind each time we meet. He pays for all dates, and declines my offer to pay.
> 
> He was very, very enthusiastic during the initial dates, but he's cooled way off. I've tried to initiate more affection, hand holding, etc but I sense he's holding back.
> 
> Is it because of the lack of sex?? We have lots of fun together, but I'm now ready for more physically. He always asks me out and takes me places. He's a gentleman.
> 
> I don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't appear to "want" me. I'm so attracted to him physically, he tells me I'm so attractive, and the kisses are so passionate. Then nothing.
> 
> Initially I wanted to wait, but now I'm ready.


Run, it gets worse with this woman after one year run no sex, you are on a leash. Go spin more plates dude! Read the tactical guide to women


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Zoomzoom said:


> Thanks everyone!!! Here's to wishing I finally get ravished on Friday night. This time, I'm ready. And I'll duct tape my mouth until we're done


@Zoomzoom How did it go? Did you apply the duct tape and throw away the stop signs?
Hopefully it was not another bust!


----------



## Zoomzoom

BeyondRepair007 said:


> @Zoomzoom How did it go? Did you apply the duct tape and throw away the stop signs?
> Hopefully it was not another bust!


I wish...
After days of healthy and productive communication, STI panel exchange etc., I ended up in the ER on Thursday night battling a very painful intestinal infection. 

I was discharged on Saturday afternoon. I'm on the mend and receiving some TLC from the Texan. 

Seems like the universe is against me getting laid...maybe voodoo from Botswana which is my home country! 

He's still hanging on, texting, calling, checking in, etc. He dropped off some chicken soup earlier. 

He says I'm the one who's been acting distant, standoffish and aloof, hence he was keeping off!!!

I'm holding on tight to the duct tape as I recover. In the meantime, we're talking, which is good.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Hello TAMers,
Thought to share some updates. I'm sated and blissfully delirious. Mr. Texas was amazing...he's exceeded my expectations on so many levels.

The duct tape always comes in handy, especially when he starts bringing up future plans. He's pretty clear about wanting remarriage, and that terrifies me. So here we are, exclusively dating.

We have many challenges...cultural differences, communication, politics, race, 15 yr age gap etc. But I'm smitten. I'm pretty certain I'll be back on TAM wailing and complaining later, and I know you guys will be as brutal as ever... but for now, I'll bask in this. Baby steps.

Thanks TAMers.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Zoomzoom said:


> Hello TAMers,
> Thought to share some updates. I'm sated and blissfully delirious. Mr. Texas was amazing...he's exceeded my expectations on so many levels.
> 
> The duct tape always comes in handy, especially when he starts bringing up future plans. He's pretty clear about wanting remarriage, and that terrifies me. So here we are, exclusively dating.
> 
> We have many challenges...cultural differences, communication, politics, race, 15 yr age gap etc. But I'm smitten. I'm pretty certain I'll be back on TAM wailing and complaining later, and I know you guys will be as brutal as ever... but for now, I'll bask in this. Baby steps.
> 
> Thanks TAMers.


Woo Hoo! Congratulations!

I'm glad that you and Mr Wonderful Texas are doing so well.
See? All that drama for nothing. 

Best of luck to you!


----------



## Anastasia6

Zoomzoom said:


> Hello TAMers,
> Thought to share some updates. I'm sated and blissfully delirious. Mr. Texas was amazing...he's exceeded my expectations on so many levels.
> 
> The duct tape always comes in handy, especially when he starts bringing up future plans. He's pretty clear about wanting remarriage, and that terrifies me. So here we are, exclusively dating.
> 
> We have many challenges...cultural differences, communication, politics, race, 15 yr age gap etc. But I'm smitten. I'm pretty certain I'll be back on TAM wailing and complaining later, and I know you guys will be as brutal as ever... but for now, I'll bask in this. Baby steps.
> 
> Thanks TAMers.


I'm glad you are having fun and enjoying yourself. But that 15 year age gap is no joke and you are on the losing end of it. Think twice before marrying.


----------



## Deejo

Another satisfied customer ...

We'll be here. When you're ready.


----------



## pastasauce79

All I want to know is, did he bring condoms?? 🤣


----------



## Trustless Marriage

I would not rule out the fact that he is more interested in having a good time with you than having sex. As others have mentioned, maybe he has some ED going on or maybe he just likes your company. I remember when I was in high school I had an ex girlfriend who was pretty but I just wasn't interested in sex with her. Loved to hang out together and have fun but never really took it to the next step.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Hey, didn't think I'd be back here so soon... 
Things have been going on well with the Texan...physical intimacy is off the charts, we see each other regularly, etc. 

Just got the dreaded "we really should talk" text. He wants to meet tomorrow after church.

Should I prepare for breakup? I don't have a good feeling about this.

What gives??


----------



## Diana7

Zoomzoom said:


> Hey, didn't think I'd be back here so soon...
> Things have been going on well with the Texan...physical intimacy is off the charts, we see each other regularly, etc.
> 
> Just got the dreaded "we really should talk" text. He wants to meet tomorrow after church.
> 
> Should I prepare for breakup? I don't have a good feeling about this.
> 
> What gives??


It's impossible to say, just wait and see.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Diana7 said:


> It's impossible to say, just wait and see.


I just think it's cruel to send such a text and have me wait 24 hours to hear presumably bad news.

He could have called tonight. Or simply sent a breakup text.

I'm a pessimist... we've been getting along beautifully. I just have a bad feeling.

This will be a long night.


----------



## Diana7

Zoomzoom said:


> I just think it's cruel to send such a text and have me wait 24 hours to hear presumably bad news.
> 
> He could have called tonight. Or simply sent a breakup text.
> 
> I'm a pessimist... we've been getting along beautifully. I just have a bad feeling.
> 
> This will be a long night.


Yes he could have texted you in the morning or rang you tonight. 
If you haven't noticed anything wrong it may be ok. 
You could text him back and ask what it's about?


----------



## jonty30

Zoomzoom said:


> I just think it's cruel to send such a text and have me wait 24 hours to hear presumably bad news.
> 
> He could have called tonight. Or simply sent a breakup text.
> 
> I'm a pessimist... we've been getting along beautifully. I just have a bad feeling.
> 
> This will be a long night.


At the moment, you're probably overthinking this a bit.
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.


----------



## Openminded

Maybe he wants to marry you.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Fellow TAMERs, I'm sorry I sound like a broken record, but I need you guys once again. The Texan wants to get married. It's important to him...not right away, but he prefers to build something that leads to a marriage, or else there's no point.

I'm fine with taking things slow. I've only been divorced for about 3 months!!! I like him very much, but marriage gives me the creeps. 

AITA for wanting to break things up? I feel terrible. You guys warned me....ugh.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Hmm… I think he’s too old for you. By the time he’s in adult diapers and in the retirement home you’ll be his age now. My $0.02


----------



## pastasauce79

Zoomzoom said:


> AITA for wanting to break things up? I feel terrible. You guys warned me....ugh.


I don't think so. No one can force you to do things you don't want to do. It's better to break up now than divorce later.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Zoomzoom said:


> Fellow TAMERs, I'm sorry I sound like a broken record, but I need you guys once again. The Texan wants to get married. It's important to him...not right away, but he prefers to build something that leads to a marriage, or else there's no point.
> 
> I'm fine with taking things slow. I've only been divorced for about 3 months!!! I like him very much, but marriage gives me the creeps.
> 
> AITA for wanting to break things up? I feel terrible. You guys warned me....ugh.


You need to break up. I wouldn't marry someone in that big a hurry to break up. I wouldn't marry someone who I hadn't been with that long or had sex with. You are not ready for it and might never be. 

Break it off with him. There's something fishy with him. Set him free.


----------



## Zoomzoom

ccpowerslave said:


> Hmm… I think he’s too old for you. By the time he’s in adult diapers and in the retirement home you’ll be his age now. My $0.02


 15 year age gap is quite significant. But he's in excellent physical health...bla bla. I can't bring up the age difference now. Looks unfair.


----------



## Zoomzoom

DownByTheRiver said:


> You need to break up. I wouldn't marry someone in that big a hurry to break up. I wouldn't marry someone who I hadn't been with that long or had sex with. You are not ready for it and might never be.
> 
> Break it off with him. There's something fishy with him. Set him free.


 Yes. As much as it pains me.


----------



## Zoomzoom

pastasauce79 said:


> I don't think so. No one can force you to do things you don't want to do. It's better to break up now than divorce later.


Yes. Sadly yes.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

You don't have to talk about the age difference. Just tell him your goals just aren't compatible and that you want to set him free so he can find someone to marry, because you don't know if you'll ever want to.


----------



## Diana7

Zoomzoom said:


> Fellow TAMERs, I'm sorry I sound like a broken record, but I need you guys once again. The Texan wants to get married. It's important to him...not right away, but he prefers to build something that leads to a marriage, or else there's no point.
> 
> I'm fine with taking things slow. I've only been divorced for about 3 months!!! I like him very much, but marriage gives me the creeps.
> 
> AITA for wanting to break things up? I feel terrible. You guys warned me....ugh.


I am of the same mindset as him. Dating for me was always about meeting a guy to marry. I never saw the point of just dating on it's own. 
If you dont want to marry again then be honest with him.


----------



## In Absentia

Too soon, and the age gap is too big. Just don't.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Zoomzoom said:


> Fellow TAMERs, I'm sorry I sound like a broken record, but I need you guys once again. The Texan wants to get married. It's important to him...not right away, but he prefers to build something that leads to a marriage, or else there's no point.
> 
> I'm fine with taking things slow. I've only been divorced for about 3 months!!! I like him very much, but marriage gives me the creeps.
> 
> AITA for wanting to break things up? I feel terrible. You guys warned me....ugh.


Did he actually propose or did he just say he wants your relationship to head in the direction of marriage? If it is the later then why not tell him you want to stay exclusive, but you need to slow things down to see where this goes?


----------



## Livvie

If you think the age gap is too much let him go now, don't waste his time. That's dishonest to lead him on. You know right now you don't want want to marry him. Ever.


----------



## Diana7

BigDaddyNY said:


> Did he actually propose or did he just say he wants your relationship to head in the direction of marriage? If it is the later then why not tell him you want to stay exclusive, but you need to slow things down to see where this goes?


I took it to mean that his intended final aim is marriage, not that he has already asked her. I may be wrong though.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Diana7 said:


> I took it to mean that his intended final aim is marriage, not that he has already asked her. I may be wrong though.


If that is the case then she needs to decide if she ever can see that happening. If she can never see herself being interested in being married to him then she should tell him that and let him go, or at least let him decide if he wants to continue the relationship. If it is a possibility, but not just yet, then I don't see a problem with continuing the relationship if she is having a good time with him.


----------



## Zoomzoom

BigDaddyNY said:


> Did he actually propose or did he just say he wants your relationship to head in the direction of marriage? If it is the later then why not tell him you want to stay exclusive, but you need to slow things down to see where this goes?


Here's how part of the conversation played out:

Him: where do you see this going? What do you want?

Me: I don't know. But I like you a lot and enjoy spending time with you. What about you?

Him: I like you a lot, too. Marriage is very important to me, like I always tell you. I don't see the point of having a relationship if there's no marriage in the horizon. Do you forsee marriage in your future?

Me: (jokingly) Are you asking me? I may consider remarriage one day, just not today. Let's get to know each other, spend time together, etc. You're putting the cart before the horse.

Him: You're the one one putting the cart before the horse. Marriage is the end goal for me. I'd like to work towards that with you.

Me: Let's spend more time together and get to know each other. There are many things you don't know about me. I'm sure it goes both ways.

Him (getting agitated): That means you'll be waiting to find a reason to break up with me one day. You clearly don't know what you want. If marriage isn't on the table there's no point in dating. You've given me a lot to think about.

Me: (seductively) How would you like a nice sensual massage to help you with your thinking?

Him: If marriage was in your horizon, you would know. That's concerning to me. Let's take a raincheck on that massage.


----------



## Rob_1

Zoomzoom said:


> Here's how part of the conversation played out:
> 
> Him: where do you see this going? What do you want?
> 
> Me: I don't know. But I like you a lot and enjoy spending time with you. What about you?
> 
> Him: I like you a lot, too. Marriage is very important to me, like I always tell you. I don't see the point of having a relationship if there's no marriage in the horizon. Do you forsee marriage in your future?
> 
> Me: (jokingly) Are you asking me? I may consider remarriage one day, just not today. Let's get to know each other, spend time together, etc. You're putting the cart before the horse.
> 
> Him: You're the one one putting the cart before the horse. Marriage is the end goal for me. I'd like to work towards that with you.
> 
> Me: Let's spend more time together and get to know each other. There are many things you don't know about me. I'm sure it goes both ways.
> 
> Him (getting agitated): That means you'll be waiting to find a reason to break up with me one day. You clearly don't know what you want. If marriage isn't on the table there's no point in dating. You've given me a lot to think about.



Run girl, run as fast as you can from this dude. This attitude is the kind we read in the newspapers when the woman is found all beat up, shackled, and/or dead. His immediate insistence is a big, big RED FLAG. You're looking at controlling behavior right before your eyes. Use what you have between those eyes and end it. I don't think that I'm being an alarmist in your case. Proceed at your own risk.


----------



## Openminded

IIIRC, he said that to him sex equaled a relationship leading to marriage before you even had sex. No surprise there.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Diana7 said:


> I took it to mean that his intended final aim is marriage, not that he has already asked her. I may be wrong though.


You are exactly right.


----------



## jonty30

Rob_1 said:


> Run girl, run as fast as you can from this dude. This attitude is the kind we read in the newspapers when the woman is found all beat up, shackled, and/or dead. His immediate insistence is a big, big RED FLAG. You're looking at controlling behavior right before your eyes. Use what you have between those eyes and end it. I don't think that I'm being an alarmist in your case. Proceed at your own risk.


He's 15 years older, which puts him in his late 50's and early 60's. I don't think he's creepy, but I think that he knows who he is and wants to be married. 
Zoomzooom would be right to cut him loose, because they are at odds when it comes to personal goals and somebody will end up unhappy if they try to mesh.


----------



## Zoomzoom

Livvie said:


> If you think the age gap is too much let him go now, don't waste his time. That's dishonest to lead him on. You know right now you don't want want to marry him. Ever.


I could live with the age gap, but I don't know if I'd like to get remarried. I'm on the fence. I got married at 18 to a very controlling man that didn't even allow me to have a bank account, friends, or even talk to my family. He had cameras installed in the home (and car) to watch me. But that's a different story.

I'm enjoying my small apartment and freedom. Marriage is scary to me.


----------



## Diana7

I don't see anything wrong with him at all, but I think you are both wanting different things. When we dated we were both wanting marriage to be the result if it carried on well. We both wanted to marry again, and that's why we were dating. He seems to be the same.
I guess at his age he feels he hasn't got time to just date you for years if you haven't got the same possible end goal in mind.


----------



## Diana7

Rob_1 said:


> Run girl, run as fast as you can from this dude. This attitude is the kind we read in the newspapers when the woman is found all beat up, shackled, and/or dead. His immediate insistence is a big, big RED FLAG. You're looking at controlling behavior right before your eyes. Use what you have between those eyes and end it. I don't think that I'm being an alarmist in your case. Proceed at your own risk.


I dont see this at all. He is just being honest about wanting to marry again. Lots of people only date because they want to marry. He just wants to know if they are on the same page.


----------



## fluffycoco

15 years older is too much, he maybe is good looking now but soon he will be a smelly saggy old man you wanna run away from.


----------



## jonty30

fluffycoco said:


> 15 years older is too much, he maybe is good looking now but soon he will be a smelly saggy old man you wanna run away from.


Like Clint Eastwood....


----------



## Diana7

Lots of happy marriages have big age gaps. Many more than this one. They can work if both are in the same page.


----------



## Zoomzoom

fluffycoco said:


> 15 years older is too much, he maybe is good looking now but soon he will be a smelly saggy old man you wanna run away from.


I'm fine with the age gap, and I'm very physically attracted to him. I've been on numerous "meh" first dates, but this guy here, takes my breath away/excites me each time I see him.

It's hard to explain why I'm responding like this to him physically.


----------



## In Absentia

Zoomzoom said:


> I'm fine with the age gap, and I'm very physically attracted to him. I've been on numerous "meh" first dates, but this guy here, takes my breath away/excites me each time I see him.
> 
> It's hard to explain why I'm responding like this to him physically.


Sounded a bit pushy to me. I wouldn't like a person shoving his beliefs down my throat like that.


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> Sounded a bit pushy to me. I wouldn't like a person shoving his beliefs down my throat like that.


To me he was just being honest about wanting to get married again. We talked about that very early on.


----------



## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> Sounded a bit pushy to me. I wouldn't like a person shoving his beliefs down my throat like that.


How on Earth is the man "shoving his beliefs" down her throat???

He's stating he's dating to marry. Marriage is HIS goal. He wants to know if she's on the same page. 

That's not shoving something down her throat.


----------



## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> That's not shoving something down her throat.


No? Saying every other sentence he wants to get married when they've been dating for such a short time doesn't seem weird to you... ok... you marry him. I would run a mile.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Zoomzoom said:


> Here's how part of the conversation played out:
> 
> Him: where do you see this going? What do you want?
> 
> Me: I don't know. But I like you a lot and enjoy spending time with you. What about you?
> 
> Him: I like you a lot, too. Marriage is very important to me, like I always tell you. I don't see the point of having a relationship if there's no marriage in the horizon. Do you forsee marriage in your future?
> 
> Me: (jokingly) Are you asking me? I may consider remarriage one day, just not today. Let's get to know each other, spend time together, etc. You're putting the cart before the horse.
> 
> Him: You're the one one putting the cart before the horse. Marriage is the end goal for me. I'd like to work towards that with you.
> 
> Me: Let's spend more time together and get to know each other. There are many things you don't know about me. I'm sure it goes both ways.
> 
> Him (getting agitated): That means you'll be waiting to find a reason to break up with me one day. You clearly don't know what you want. If marriage isn't on the table there's no point in dating. You've given me a lot to think about.
> 
> Me: (seductively) How would you like a nice sensual massage to help you with your thinking?
> 
> Him: If marriage was in your horizon, you would know. That's concerning to me. Let's take a raincheck on that massage.


It is clear you are not on the same page. It seems to me it would be best to end the relationship sooner than later. Actually it sounds like he may break it off if you aren't on board with marching towards marriage. That is a major incompatibility between you.


----------



## Rob_1

BigDaddyNY said:


> That is a major incompatibility between you.


The problem with us humans is that while those attraction bells are ringing inside our bodies, it gets kind of hard to hear and acknowledge the horns of the train barreling down on us. For OP the Texan might be a good match, but they are at a different stage in their life, so they are incompatible at this time. Plus, he's being pushy about it.


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> No? Saying every other sentence he wants to get married when they've been dating for such a short time doesn't seem weird to you... ok... you marry him. I would run a mile.


Where did he say it in every other sentence?
No I don't think he is weird, we were engaged after a few months.


----------



## Diana7

Rob_1 said:


> The problem with us humans is that while those attraction bells are ringing inside our bodies, it gets kind of hard to hear and acknowledge the horns of the train barreling down on us. For OP the Texan might be a good match, but they are at a different stage in their life, so they are incompatible at this time. Plus, he's being pushy about it.


They are very much at different stages. That's why I believe people should wait a year or two before they date again. 
I met a nice guy about a year before I met my husband. 
For me it had been 5 years since my marriage ended.I was finally ready to date again and marry again if I found the right guy. For him it was very early and he was still struggling and wasnt over his break up. So although we clicked and got on well I knew it wasn't going to work.


----------



## Openminded

In Absentia said:


> No? Saying every other sentence he wants to get married when they've been dating for such a short time doesn't seem weird to you... ok... you marry him. I would run a mile.


I wouldn’t date him but I don’t date anyone who wants to get married again because that’s not what I want. This guy made it clear before they ever had sex that for him sex leads to a relationship and a relationship leads to marriage so maybe not exactly weird but certainly persistent with his message. He’s jumping very quickly IMO but that’s who he he was before they had sex and he’s staying on message. He would be a definite “no” for me but my guess is she’ll stick around.


----------



## SunCMars

Zoomzoom said:


> And say what? 😃*Beg him to 'do me'?* Shouldn't he initiate more? But no, we haven't talked about it.




Pass your hand over his bump stick a few times when making out.

If he does not soon brush your bush, then I too, suspect ED.

At minimum, he is very insecure, sexually.

.........................................

Edit to add: Yes, it might be his religious feelings that is holding him back.
Knowing this, do you want to have a LTR with a guy who might be asexual?


_Lilith-_


----------



## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> Where did he say it in every other sentence?
> No I don't think he is weird, we were engaged after a few months.


Have you read the conversation?


----------



## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> No? Saying every other sentence he wants to get married when they've been dating for such a short time doesn't seem weird to you... ok... you marry him. I would run a mile.


Stating what HE'S looking for, and stating he isn't into dating someone who doesn't want to get married again, still isn't "shoving his beliefs down her throat."


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> Have you read the conversation?


Yes.


----------



## TXTrini

Zoomzoom said:


> Here's how part of the conversation played out:
> 
> Him: where do you see this going? What do you want?
> 
> Me: I don't know. But I like you a lot and enjoy spending time with you. What about you?
> 
> Him: I like you a lot, too. Marriage is very important to me, like I always tell you. I don't see the point of having a relationship if there's no marriage in the horizon. Do you forsee marriage in your future?
> 
> Me: (jokingly) Are you asking me? I may consider remarriage one day, just not today. Let's get to know each other, spend time together, etc. You're putting the cart before the horse.
> 
> Him: You're the one one putting the cart before the horse. Marriage is the end goal for me. I'd like to work towards that with you.
> 
> Me: Let's spend more time together and get to know each other. There are many things you don't know about me. I'm sure it goes both ways.
> 
> Him (getting agitated): That means you'll be waiting to find a reason to break up with me one day. You clearly don't know what you want. If marriage isn't on the table there's no point in dating. You've given me a lot to think about.
> 
> Me: (seductively) How would you like a nice sensual massage to help you with your thinking?
> 
> Him: If marriage was in your horizon, you would know. That's concerning to me. Let's take a raincheck on that massage.


This guy has been having sex with other women and hasn't married ANY of them. Why is he being so pushy with you? If he's not patient enough to give you space to make a decision, I think you should consider cutting him loose now.

You'll meet other men you're attracted to who are ok with your stance on marriage. You two want different things, there's no room for compromise here.


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## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> Stating what HE'S looking for, and stating he isn't into dating someone who doesn't want to get married again, still isn't "shoving his beliefs down her throat."


I feel he is too pushy. My description was an exaggeration to make my point. I wouldn’t like an older person talking to me about marriage so often when I told this person ‘let’s get to know each other better first’. But maybe you do. Fine by me.


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## In Absentia

TXTrini said:


> This guy has been having sex with other women and hasn't married ANY of them. Why is he being so pushy with you? If he's not patient enough to give you space to make a decision, I think you should consider cutting him loose now.
> 
> You'll meet other men you're attracted to who are ok with your stance on marriage. You two want different things, there's no room for compromise here.


Totally agree.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy

When my husband and I met we were both looking for a life partner. He was divorced from cheating ex and my husband was my 1st marriage. We got engaged quick as in a few months later (he was in navy and wouldnt see him for a couple of months) and married 18 months later. If no red flags and you also want marriage eventually, tell him now is too soon. 2plus years would be suitable for you. If he ums and rrrrs about it, throws lots of red flags then dump him.


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## Zoomzoom

Update: We mutually ended it last night by a phone conversation that lasted one minute. I cannot commit to marching towards marriage with someone I hardly know.

And he's reluctant to accept my "get to know each other better first" approach, which is quite baffling to me.

And I'm now upset because he's still checking in, asking "are you alright?" Of course I'm not alright. He's not buying what I'm selling, so why "check in"?

Once again, thanks TAMers. This, too, shall pass.


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## jonty30

Zoomzoom said:


> Update: We mutually ended it last night by a phone conversation that lasted one minute. I cannot commit to marching towards marriage with someone I hardly know.
> 
> And he's reluctant to accept my "get to know each other better first" approach, which is quite baffling to me.
> 
> And I'm now upset because he's still checking in, asking "are you alright?" Of course I'm not alright. He's not buying what I'm selling, so why "check in"?
> 
> Once again, thanks TAMers. This, too, shall pass.


He's older than you, so he doesn't have the time for building towards marriage that you do. 
Probably fears that he might die before he gets married again.


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## Diana7

Zoomzoom said:


> Update: We mutually ended it last night by a phone conversation that lasted one minute. I cannot commit to marching towards marriage with someone I hardly know.
> 
> And he's reluctant to accept my "get to know each other better first" approach, which is quite baffling to me.
> 
> And I'm now upset because he's still checking in, asking "are you alright?" Of course I'm not alright. He's not buying what I'm selling, so why "check in"?
> 
> Once again, thanks TAMers. This, too, shall pass.


You are at very different stages. He is ready to find a lady to marry, you don't want to marry. It was never going to work.
I expect he is checking in to see if you are ok because he cares.


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## Livvie

Zoomzoom said:


> Update: We mutually ended it last night by a phone conversation that lasted one minute. I cannot commit to marching towards marriage with someone I hardly know.
> 
> And he's reluctant to accept my "get to know each other better first" approach, which is quite baffling to me.
> 
> And I'm now upset because he's still checking in, asking "are you alright?" Of course I'm not alright. He's not buying what I'm selling, so why "check in"?
> 
> Once again, thanks TAMers. This, too, shall pass.


You don't get it. 

He wants to know if you want to get married again someday, if that's what you are working towards _as your dating goal_. 

You couldn't tell him if that's your goal in dating, or not. 

You could have been more clear with him and let him know you have no idea what your dating goals are and you also have no idea if marriage is something you will want again. 

Instead you muddied the waters and talked about getting to know him better. 

?


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## ccpowerslave

I mean she basically told him not so much at least for marriage. The weird thing is he’s still sniffing around.


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## Diana7

ccpowerslave said:


> I mean she basically told him not so much at least for marriage. The weird thing is he’s still sniffing around.


Maybe he cares?


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## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> Maybe he cares?


I get the impression he is a weirdo... these are the vibes I get.


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## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> You don't get it.
> 
> He wants to know if you want to get married again someday, if that's what you are working towards _as your dating goal_.


She told him...

"I may consider remarriage one day, just not today."

and then he got pushy...

"Marriage is the end goal for me. I'd like to work towards that with you."

What a creep!


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## In Absentia

Rob_1 said:


> Run girl, run as fast as you can from this dude. This attitude is the kind we read in the newspapers when the woman is found all beat up, shackled, and/or dead. His immediate insistence is a big, big RED FLAG. You're looking at controlling behavior right before your eyes. Use what you have between those eyes and end it. I don't think that I'm being an alarmist in your case. Proceed at your own risk.


This ^^^ 100%!


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## BeyondRepair007

@Zoomzoom I'm sorry this didn't work out. I suppose its for the best though.

Your guy's logic is messed up. Is there no dating until a commitment to future marriage is agreed on? That's wack.

I'm late to this topic but during your talk when you met about this, your points were perfectly on target. I agree with those who called 'red flag' at his position/insistence.

I would have thought you could spend time with each other and maybe maybe not on the marriage thing. That's the way the rest of the world works I think. Except arranged marriages I guess. And wierdos like your guy


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## Diana7

To me he sounds like millions of us who don't just want to casually date but are dating with the hope of finding a spouse. Who have marriage as the ultimate goal. 
I can't see a thing wrong with that at all and it certainly doesn't warrant being called a creep or any other name. He was honest about it and so was she. 

The fact is that the op wasn't wanting that so they weren't compatible. No point in carrying on if they are not wanting the same thing.


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## BeyondRepair007

Diana7 said:


> To me he sounds like millions of us who don't just want to casually date but are dating with the hope of finding a spouse. Who have marriage as the ultimate goal.
> I can't see a thing wrong with that at all and it certainly doesn't warrant being called a creep or any other name. He was honest about it and so was she.
> 
> The fact is that the op wasn't wanting that so they weren't compatible. No point in carrying on if they are not wanting the same thing.


The only point that seems different to me is that he was asking for that commitment up front, before much (that's subjective, I know) dating had occurred.

I do agree with your points and I think many or most of us date for the purpose of LTR. But if one or the other tries to nail down a commitment to marriage too early, it gets 'weird'. Maybe especially for guys? I don't know about that. It was reversed in this case I guess.

Anyway, that's the point where I move away from this being a good, normal thing. I don't think they had months and months of dating and it was still relatively new(ish). If they had that longer relationship, then I think it would have been normal and expected to confirm a future or not.

My 2 cents.


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## Diana7

BeyondRepair007 said:


> The only point that seems different to me is that he was asking for that commitment up front, before much (that's subjective, I know) dating had occurred.
> 
> I do agree with your points and I think many or most of us date for the purpose of LTR. But if one or the other tries to nail down a commitment to marriage too early, it gets 'weird'. Maybe especially for guys? I don't know about that. It was reversed in this case I guess.
> 
> Anyway, that's the point where I move away from this being a good, normal thing. I don't think they had months and months of dating and it was still relatively new(ish). If they had that longer relationship, then I think it would have been normal and expected to confirm a future or not.
> 
> My 2 cents.


I took it to mean him wanting to know if marriage was a possibility at some point if the relationship lasted. If her aim was to eventually marry. 
Really they should have found out at the beginning what they were wanting. Whether that be a casual relationship or marriage. He wants to get married, I think that very reasonable. She doesnt, that's fine too. They want different things.

I appreciate that for many 4 months isn't long but it's long enough to know if it's likely to last and if they are the sort of person we would maybe want to marry. I knew within a week that I wanted to marry my husband. Ok that's unusual, but I would probably know after 4 months one way or another if it was worth persuing.


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## BeyondRepair007

Diana7 said:


> I took it to mean him wanting to know if marriage was a possibility at some point if the relationship lasted.
> Really they should have found out at the beginning what they were wanting. Whether that be a casual relationship or marriage. He wants to get married, I think that very reasonable. She doesnt, that's fine too. They want different things.


Agreed, it could have been misconstrued by you, me, OP, or anyone.
I took it to mean he was asking if the OP was willing to commit to actively pursuing a marriage relationship with him.

These 2 sentences in their conversation locked it in for me:


Zoomzoom said:


> Me: (jokingly) Are you asking me? I may consider remarriage one day, just not today. Let's get to know each other, spend time together, etc. You're putting the cart before the horse.
> 
> Him: You're the one one putting the cart before the horse. Marriage is the end goal for me. I'd like to work towards that with you.


OP seems to want to get to know him better before committing to him. She's not ruling it out (I think), just doesn't want to commit to him right now.
Her guy seems to want a commitment to him from her.

You may be right about it, I don't know. The words could be inferred differently depending on our own baggage.
Anyway, it's over now.


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## BeyondRepair007

Diana7 said:


> I appreciate that for many 4 months isn't long but it's long enough to know if it's likely to last and if they are the sort of person we would maybe want to marry. I knew within a week that I wanted to marry my husband. Ok that's unusual, but I would know after 4 months for sure one way or another.


I didn't emotionally commit to a married relationship with my wife for most of a year of dating.
It's not that I didn't love her or didn't think we would eventually get married. But I tend not to trust my own heart and want to double/triple check everything on big decisions.

Different strokes I guess.


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## Diana7

BeyondRepair007 said:


> I didn't emotionally commit to a married relationship with my wife for most of a year of dating.
> It's not that I didn't love her or didn't think we would eventually get married. But I tend not to trust my own heart and want to double/triple check everything on big decisions.
> 
> Different strokes I guess.


Yes we are all different. We were married after 9 months of dating.


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## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> Yes we are all different. We were married after 9 months of dating.


wow, that’s quick…😊


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## LisaDiane

Zoomzoom said:


> I could live with the age gap, but I don't know if I'd like to get remarried. I'm on the fence. I got married at 18 to a very controlling man that didn't even allow me to have a bank account, friends, or even talk to my family. He had cameras installed in the home (and car) to watch me. But that's a different story.
> 
> I'm enjoying my small apartment and freedom. Marriage is scary to me.


THIS ^^^

I think that people who had happy relationships cannot understand how people who felt trapped and controlled and scared feel. You JUST got divorced...this isn't the time for you to be looking for a new husband/marriage, this is the time for you to HEAL and LEARN about yourself.

I understand why he's setting these boundaries, because that's what is important to HIM. However, it's not fair to you. 

I might say to him that if he's willing to wait a couple of years for me to get to know him and get more comfortable with him, then you might at some point, when you fully trust him, be willing to marry again. But if that's not good enough for him, then he isn't being sensitive and caring about YOUR feelings and fears and needs in a relationship with him.


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## Zoomzoom

Help! 
I'm sitting here numb staring at a positive pregnancy test. 
I'm completely stupefied. I don't know what to say.


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## jonty30

Zoomzoom said:


> Help!
> I'm sitting here numb staring at a positive pregnancy test.
> I'm completely stupefied. I don't know what to say.


How is your relationship status?


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## bobert

Zoomzoom said:


> Help!
> I'm sitting here numb staring at a positive pregnancy test.
> I'm completely stupefied. I don't know what to say.


Well, you have three options: Terminate the pregnancy, parent the child, or place the child for adoption.

If you choose to parent, you know the father is ready to get married and play house. Assuming the guy in the thread is the father. Not sure how he will feel about being a father at 52-53 but you need to talk to him, unless you are choosing option 1.


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## Zoomzoom

jonty30 said:


> How is your relationship status?


 I see him 3 times a week.


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## Zoomzoom

bobert said:


> Well, you have three options: Terminate the pregnancy, parent the child, or place the child for adoption.
> 
> If you choose to parent, you know the father is ready to get married and play house. Assuming the guy in the thread is the father. Not sure how he will feel about being a father at 52-53 but you need to talk to him, unless you are choosing option 1.


I know he'll want to keep the baby and get married.
My son is a senior in high school, I don't want to do this again.


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## bobert

Zoomzoom said:


> I know he'll want to keep the baby and get married.
> My son is a senior in high school, I don't want to do this again.


Well, you have a third option then. Not everyone agrees with termination but it is an option. 

Alternatively, you can end the relationship (it sounds like you didn't call it quits?) and let him raise the child himself.


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## Openminded

Then don’t do it again if you’re not interested in starting over.


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## Rob_1

Zoomzoom said:


> I'm sitting here numb staring at a positive pregnancy test.
> I'm completely stupefied. I don't know what to say.


Stupefied? You're not a teen that doesn't have the mental Capacity to have the level of responsibility that entitles having sex, aren't you? Why are you stupefied about having sex with an older dude, that you're not even sure what to do with him, least of all getting pregnant by him.

I don't know, but you must be so desperate to have a man that you lost your sense of responsibility. 

But, like it has been said, abort, give away in adoption/or give to the dude for him to raise, keep it, with or without the dad. Your choices, basically. There's nothing else to do.


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## BeyondRepair007

Speaking up for the 'choose life' crowd

The baby might be tough or difficult for you at this point in life, that's for sure. But, kids are worth it.
And as a religious man, I don't believe in 'mistakes' (don't turn this into a debate. I won't engage with that.)
Keeping the baby seems like the most right thing to me.
-
Alternatively, giving the baby up for adoption (if you believe it will be too difficult or otherwise unmanageable) is a good alternative.
-
I don't claim to have special understanding or wisdom here, I'm just a simple man that hates to see a baby's life taken.


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## Openminded

I think The Universe has been preparing you for this day since you met him.


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## Personal

Zoomzoom said:


> I know he'll want to keep the baby and get married.
> My son is a senior in high school, I don't want to do this again.


Well if you don't want to do it again, you're going to have to terminate your pregnancy as soon as you can.

At the end of the day if you have no desire to marry him and don't want to raise another child, then ending it is going to be your best option.

Whatever you choose to do, I hope you feel better for it.


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## Zoomzoom

Rob_1 said:


> Stupefied? You're not a teen that doesn't have the mental Capacity to have the level of responsibility that entitles having sex, aren't you? Why are you stupefied about having sex with an older dude, that you're not even sure what to do with him, least of all getting pregnant by him.
> 
> I don't know, but you must be so desperate to have a man that you lost your sense of responsibility.
> 
> But, like it has been said, abort, give away in adoption/or give to the dude for him to raise, keep it, with or without the dad. Your choices, basically. There's nothing else to do.


Stupefied because I had a tubal ligation (essure) almost 5 years ago.


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## Casual Observer

Diana7 said:


> I dont see this at all. He is just being honest about wanting to marry again. Lots of people only date because they want to marry. He just wants to know if they are on the same page.


He might also be trying to rationalize that sex is ok if it’s leading up to marriage. He might be pretty conservative and feel a bit badly about crossing boundaries.


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## bobert

Zoomzoom said:


> Stupefied because I had a tubal ligation (essure) almost 5 years ago.


Wouldn't that significantly increase the chance of this being an ectopic pregnancy? If so, you should definitely be seen quickly. I could be wrong of course, but I remember my wife's doctor mentioning that when she was considering having some form of tubal ligation done.


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## Rob_1

Zoomzoom said:


> Stupefied because I had a tubal ligation (essure) almost 5 years ago.


Well, that's an explanation that now that you mentioned it makes sense. 
I would be stupefied also.

You should have explained it in your original OP. Normally, no one can be stupefied by getting pregnant from having sex, unless, it is after what you said. 

FYI. Although Tubal Ligation is mostly successful (the older you are the most chances of being 100% successful), but there's a rate of failure. I think it is fewer than 1in 100. The younger you are the more chances for failure, and a pregnancy ensuing.


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## Casual Observer

Might suggest a name change for this thread.


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## BigDaddyNY

bobert said:


> Wouldn't that significantly increase the chance of this being an ectopic pregnancy? If so, you should definitely be seen quickly. I could be wrong of course, but I remember my wife's doctor mentioning that when she was considering having some form of tubal ligation done.


That is exactly what I was thinking. My wife got pregnant about 2 months after her tubal ligation. It was ectopic and required emergency surgery.


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## Casual Observer

BigDaddyNY said:


> That is exactly what I was thinking. My wife got pregnant about 2 months after her tubal ligation. It was ectopic and required emergency surgery.


It's really tough to know what to hope for, in a situation like this. But I think the possibility of the extremely implausible is one of the things that makes sex so exciting. There's that uncertainty about whether something is a risk or reward, fate or plan. How the best-laid (so to speak?) plans can go seriously highwire. Even, as I said earlier, the title and subsequent trajectory of this thread... well, you just can't make that stuff up. Yet, it happens. 

None of this should be taken as flippant disregard for the extreme situation @Zoomzoom finds herself in.


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## Zoomzoom

YIKES. Ectopic pregnancies suck (excruciating pain, severe vomiting, headaches etc...), just got home yesterday after a short stint at the hospital following an emergency surgery. This thing stinks. Thankfully, I wasn't alone. He was there the entire time.

I'm now taking a sabbatical leave off TAM, but want to thank all of you. Seems like my thread (or life) got jinxed when I started this discussion. 

Feels good to be alive!! Just wanted to offer this update to those who were wondering what happened.

Take care, guys!


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Zoomzoom said:


> Seems like my thread (or life) got jinxed when I started this discussion.


This struck me as funny...but sadly true.

How many threads start "I think my wife is up to something" and then the nukes drop.
ZoomZoom wanted to have sex...well... there ya go!

So yea... struck me as funny...but true.
I should start a thread ''How do I win the lottery!"


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## CallingDrLove

What did I just read? I read the first page and it’s “he won’t have sex with me” and having a short attention span at the moment I skip to the last page hoping for some resolution and it’s “I just got out of the hospital for an ectopic pregnancy”. 😬


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## RandomDude

CallingDrLove said:


> What did I just read? I read the first page and it’s “he won’t have sex with me” and having a short attention span at the moment I skip to the last page hoping for some resolution and it’s “I just got out of the hospital for an ectopic pregnancy”. 😬


Hahahahahahahahaha same lol


----------



## RandomDude

Casual Observer said:


> Might suggest a name change for this thread.


Or at least an update in the opening post. Oh well, all the best @Zoomzoom !


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## DTO

Zoomzoom said:


> Older gentleman (52), younger me (37). Here lies the problem. Limited texts. Typically good morning, good night, and to confirm a date. We've kissed and made out. It's been 3 months with many dates. We basically meet, have lots of fun together, good, deep conversation, and kiss goodbye. No phone calls between dates. I typically feel like we're strangers again each time we meet.
> 
> I arrange for all dates...he stopped giving ideas. He'll simply ask what I have in mind each time we meet. He pays for all dates, and declines my offer to pay.
> 
> He was very, very enthusiastic during the initial dates, but he's cooled way off. I've tried to initiate more affection, hand holding, etc but I sense he's holding back.
> 
> Is it because of the lack of sex?? We have lots of fun together, but I'm now ready for more physically. He always asks me out and takes me places. He's a gentleman.
> 
> I don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't appear to "want" me. I'm so attracted to him physically, he tells me I'm so attractive, and the kisses are so passionate. Then nothing.
> 
> Initially I wanted to wait, but now I'm ready.


Have a talk with him and tell him you're ready to move the relationship forward. If this doesn't work, I say this is a hard pass. 

I had the sex issue with a lady my age several years back. We'd go out, have a great time together, communicate often, she definitely had a Happily Ever After mindset. But she had zero interest in any sort of intimacy beyond snuggling and holdings hands.

I understand avoiding sex due to personal beliefs. But, at a minimum, after several months together if you're not having sex, then avoiding sex due to those beliefs should be a struggle. If you're not having sex and it seems like no big deal to your companion, that's because it really is no big deal to them. It won't get better with time.


----------



## Casual Observer

DTO said:


> Have a talk with him and tell him you're ready to move the relationship forward. If this doesn't work, I say this is a hard pass.
> 
> I had the sex issue with a lady my age several years back. We'd go out, have a great time together, communicate often, she definitely had a Happily Ever After mindset. But she had zero interest in any sort of intimacy beyond snuggling and holdings hands.
> 
> I understand about avoiding sex due to one's personal beliefs. But, at a minimum, after several months together you should be having sex, or if not then avoiding sex due to those beliefs should be a struggle. If you're not having sex and it seems like no big deal to your companion, that's because it really is no big deal to them. It won't get better with time.


So it’s ok if he or she says no to sex (outside of marriage) if it’s a struggle for them and they wish they could say yes? Or is that still not good enough; they have to be willing to sacrifice their beliefs so you can be sure (they’re going to be ok sexually)?


----------



## DTO

Casual Observer said:


> So it’s ok if he or she says no to sex (outside of marriage) if it’s a struggle for them and they wish they could say yes? Or is that still not good enough; they have to be willing to sacrifice their beliefs so you can be sure (they’re going to be ok sexually)?


I said nothing about compromising one's belieds. The first sentence of your post is where I'm at. My point is if you're dating long-term and there aren't at least signs of physical attraction, there's trouble.

I would consider waiting until deep into a relationship for sex, but there would have to be signs she was at least interested. Would you marry someone who didn't at least WANT to strip you down?


----------

