# 9 years since D-day and my wife can't understand



## Jdub (Jun 16, 2019)

It has been 9 long years since d-day and my wife still can't understand why I don't trust her. She wonders why I ask her if she has been with anyone else when she's away from home overnight or fails to tell me when she goes to lunch and when she's off work or when it takes her a bit too long to get home. I reming her that it only takes a few minutes for her to give a guy a BJ to which she gets mad about. She also doesn't understand why after all o these years I still don't buy it when she uses the same language she used back then. For example, I will see a guy at her work being nice to her (I know, shouldn't be a big deal) so I will ask her about him and she will say "that's gross". Well, the problem is that she said that identical thing about her AP back 9 years ago and she was sucking him off and spreading her legs for him. She refuses to divorce me (she'd probably be better off financially because she refuses promotions because they will strain our marriage) and I really don't want to go through a divorce nor do I want to do that to our kids. 

I guess my question is do you other folks who stayed with you cheating spouse feel this same way or do I have issues that I need to resolve. Or possibly both?


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

if she cant understand how you feel and why you don't trust her that means she is still cheating or thinking about cheating. if she is truly remorseful she would prevent any these questions from happening.

this is your choice to stay with a cheater and let her stay in the same job(?) - you were better off leaving and marrying someone else. 

by staying you taught your kids it is ok to cheat and stay in marriage while in pain.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Jdub said:


> It has been 9 long years since d-day and my wife still can't understand why I don't trust her. She wonders why I ask her if she has been with anyone else when she's away from home overnight or fails to tell me when she goes to lunch and when she's off work or when it takes her a bit too long to get home. I reming her that it only takes a few minutes for her to give a guy a BJ to which she gets mad about. She also doesn't understand why after all o these years I still don't buy it when she uses the same language she used back then. For example, I will see a guy at her work being nice to her (I know, shouldn't be a big deal) so I will ask her about him and she will say "that's gross". Well, the problem is that she said that identical thing about her AP back 9 years ago and she was sucking him off and spreading her legs for him. She refuses to divorce me (she'd probably be better off financially because she refuses promotions because they will strain our marriage) and I really don't want to go through a divorce nor do I want to do that to our kids.
> 
> I guess my question is do you other folks who stayed with you cheating spouse feel this same way or do I have issues that I need to resolve. Or possibly both?


If you are being triggered that easily and frequently, like just from her being a bit late getting home, then there is probably still work that needs to be done. That could be individually for you, but based on her reaction to this I'm guessing it's something you both need to do or that she needs to do - but likely refuses to do. 

My D-Day was in 2018. I generally don't worry about it or even think about it if I'm away from the home for an evening or overnight. My wife is rarely away from the home overnight, if it's something that has been planned (like going to the lake for a weekend), then it's no biggie. If she just takes off then yeah, that's an issue (rarely happens though). She is a SAHM now but if she leaves me with the kids and goes out for several hours, it's usually no biggie. If she's running to the store and takes longer than I expected, it's usually no biggie. 

If I do worry about it, she understands it and doesn't get mad about it. If she had plans to do something and my anxiety made her cancel (rarely happens) she doesn't make a big deal of it.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Jdub said:


> It has been 9 long years since d-day and my wife still can't understand why I don't trust her. She wonders why I ask her if she has been with anyone else when she's away from home overnight or fails to tell me when she goes to lunch and when she's off work or when it takes her a bit too long to get home. I reming her that it only takes a few minutes for her to give a guy a BJ to which she gets mad about. She also doesn't understand why after all o these years I still don't buy it when she uses the same language she used back then. For example, I will see a guy at her work being nice to her (I know, shouldn't be a big deal) so I will ask her about him and she will say "that's gross". Well, the problem is that she said that identical thing about her AP back 9 years ago and she was sucking him off and spreading her legs for him. She refuses to divorce me (she'd probably be better off financially because she refuses promotions because they will strain our marriage) and I really don't want to go through a divorce nor do I want to do that to our kids.
> 
> I guess my question is do you other folks who stayed with you cheating spouse feel this same way or do I have issues that I need to resolve. Or possibly both?


^^^ This is why you divorce after adultery --- Period ^^^

I trust my ex wife to always lie and F people over if she can get something out of it, no matter who she steps on. I trust her never to show others that side of her because those she can't keep in the dark, she can't F over. I trust her to hide the fact that she has the moral fabric of a female dog in heat. That is the extent of my trust towards her and that would never change. Luckily the last time I had to see her face was outside of a divorce court more than 20 years ago. Even if by some miracle I were tricked to stay, I know I still would only trust what I listed above about her. Staying with the adulterous is not worth it.


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## Jdub (Jun 16, 2019)

blackclover3 said:


> if she cant understand how you feel and why you don't trust her that means she is still cheating or thinking about cheating. if she is truly remorseful she would prevent any these questions from happening.
> 
> this is your choice to stay with a cheater and let her stay in the same job(?) - you were better off leaving and marrying someone else.
> 
> by staying you taught your kids it is ok to cheat and stay in marriage while in pain.


Same company but we moved to a different state. Our kids do not know about her affair (that we know of anyway) which is another thing that kinda bothers me because they treat her like she can do no wrong but treat me like...well like typical teenagers treat their dad's. But they have no idea what I went through to keep our family together. How many times I've thought about sitting in my car in the garage and starting the engine and just waiting to fall asleep and be gone. They have no idea of the pain and heartache I've been through. Now I will admit that our marriage is better than ever and we have sex all of the time it seems, but there is still that lack of trust and pain deep within me and in her mind it's been 9 years, I need to get past it. She has basically said that (not exactly those words) but something along the lines of it was 9 years ago, I'm a different person, I love you and will fight for you and our marriage, and will never do anything like that again. She even canceled going on a vacation to Florida with her sisters because of my discomfort with the whole thing. (her sisters would most likely champion and affair or at least conceal it) She has upheld her part probably 90-95% it's just her lack of understanding and the fact that she "forgets" our rules at times and then acts as if it's no big deal.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

She may be remorseful but you’ll never forget. It’s a traumatic thing, to have gone through what you did and you’ll never forget. If she is trying her best though, it may seem (to her) like she’s wearing a scarlet letter and can never get past that “former self” that you still remember. But that is what adultery does, unfortunately.

Your post is really heart breaking, and I’m not sure what to say except know that the triggers you’re experiencing are not unusual. I hope you can find a way to peace with your wife.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I stayed with a serial cheater decades longer than I should have because I wanted to keep my family intact and because he swore it would never happen again. But it did. You’d be foolish to trust her completely since you know what she’s capable of.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I just re-read your other threads. Are you still in love with the woman you referred to?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I think this is why so many can't stay in a marriage where one cheated, because of the shattered trust. If you can't trust again after 9 years of faithfulness and what you say is a good marriage will you ever be able to? It's hard to say. 
I don't know, if after so long the trust isn't there I have to wonder if it's worth staying.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Jdub said:


> It has been 9 long years since d-day and my wife still can't understand why I don't trust her. She wonders why I ask her if she has been with anyone else when she's away from home overnight or fails to tell me when she goes to lunch and when she's off work or when it takes her a bit too long to get home. I reming her that it only takes a few minutes for her to give a guy a BJ to which she gets mad about. She also doesn't understand why after all o these years I still don't buy it when she uses the same language she used back then. For example, I will see a guy at her work being nice to her (I know, shouldn't be a big deal) so I will ask her about him and she will say "that's gross". Well, the problem is that she said that identical thing about her AP back 9 years ago and she was sucking him off and spreading her legs for him. She refuses to divorce me (she'd probably be better off financially because she refuses promotions because they will strain our marriage) and I really don't want to go through a divorce nor do I want to do that to our kids.
> 
> I guess my question is do you other folks who stayed with you cheating spouse feel this same way or do I have issues that I need to resolve. Or possibly both?


Both of you are dealing with this inappropriately. There has been no healing, just rationalization. You’re suffering from Trauma and she doesn’t understand why you can’t just get over it.

Look up Dr Minwalla’s paper on The Secret Sexual Basement. It helps to explain why, for some, the betrayed’s feelings get WORSE over time. And it details what the betraying spouse needs to do.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Jdub said:


> It has been 9 long years since d-day and my wife still can't understand why I don't trust her. She wonders why I ask her if she has been with anyone else when she's away from home overnight or fails to tell me when she goes to lunch and when she's off work or when it takes her a bit too long to get home. I reming her that it only takes a few minutes for her to give a guy a BJ to which she gets mad about. She also doesn't understand why after all o these years I still don't buy it when she uses the same language she used back then. For example, I will see a guy at her work being nice to her (I know, shouldn't be a big deal) so I will ask her about him and she will say "that's gross". Well, the problem is that she said that identical thing about her AP back 9 years ago and she was sucking him off and spreading her legs for him. She refuses to divorce me (she'd probably be better off financially because she refuses promotions because they will strain our marriage) and I really don't want to go through a divorce nor do I want to do that to our kids.
> 
> I guess my question is do you other folks who stayed with you cheating spouse feel this same way or do I have issues that I need to resolve. Or possibly both?


How often — and for what reason — is she away from home for the night?

Also, you don’t need her permission to divorce.

Just saying. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Jdub (Jun 16, 2019)

Openminded said:


> I just re-read your other threads. Are you still in love with the woman you referred to?


I'm doing much better. I did tell my wife about my feelings so she knows about it and she asks me about it on a regular basis. It is hard for her since she is probably her closest friend and my wife believes that this lady is in love with me too. So I never thought about it before, but this could be why I have the perception that she doesn't understand. But yet this has been happening since before I even met this other lady. But yes, I still do have feelings for her. They aren't as strong (although I have my days, usually when I'm triggered about my wife affair, but they are becoming less)


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Jdub said:


> in her mind it's been 9 years, I need to get past it. She has basically said that (not exactly those words) but something along the lines of it was 9 years ago, *I'm a different person, I love you and will fight for you and our marriage, and will never do anything like that again.*


She paid no price. She had her fun and got to stay married too. And she learned there is no price to be paid. If the roles were reversed she would never forget in 90 years. What is in bold are just words. And she still tolerates a male at the office sidling up to her and says YOU are the one with the problem that you need to "get over"?

So she gets to live the life SHE wanted, and you get the misery and reliving the pain over and over.



Jdub said:


> She has *upheld her part probably 90-95% *it's just her lack of understanding and the fact that she "forgets" our rules at times and then acts as if it's no big deal.


Isn't her part the whole enchilada? Why hasn't she upheld the whole thing 150%? What is she forgetting? Again, it is no big deal to her. After all it was just sex right? Maybe she doesn't think a BJ is actually sex? Everyone cheats don't they? It's part of life, so just get over it.


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## Jdub (Jun 16, 2019)

GusPolinski said:


> *How often — and for what reason — is she away from home for the night?*
> 
> Also, you don’t need her permission to divorce.
> 
> Just saying. 🤷🏻‍♂️


Not very often. In fact she had to go 1.5 hours away earlier this week and her company offered her a hotel room. She decided to get up at 3:30 in the morning and drive down there and then back that evening instead of making me uncomfortable with her that far away in a hotel with other people from her company from other areas of the country staying in the same hotel.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Jdub said:


> It has been 9 long years since d-day and my wife still can't understand why I don't trust her. She wonders why I ask her if she has been with anyone else when she's away from home overnight or fails to tell me when she goes to lunch and when she's off work or when it takes her a bit too long to get home. I reming her that it only takes a few minutes for her to give a guy a BJ to which she gets mad about. She also doesn't understand why after all o these years I still don't buy it when she uses the same language she used back then. For example, I will see a guy at her work being nice to her (I know, shouldn't be a big deal) so I will ask her about him and she will say "that's gross". Well, the problem is that she said that identical thing about her AP back 9 years ago and she was sucking him off and spreading her legs for him. She refuses to divorce me (she'd probably be better off financially because she refuses promotions because they will strain our marriage) and I really don't want to go through a divorce nor do I want to do that to our kids.
> 
> I guess my question is do you other folks who stayed with you cheating spouse feel this same way or do I have issues that I need to resolve. Or possibly both?


Infidelity is a lifelong gift. You chose to accept it.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Jdub said:


> Same company but we moved to a different state. Our kids do not know about her affair (that we know of anyway) which is another thing that kinda bothers me because they treat her like she can do no wrong but treat me like...well like typical teenagers treat their dad's. But they have no idea what I went through to keep our family together. How many times I've thought about sitting in my car in the garage and starting the engine and just waiting to fall asleep and be gone. They have no idea of the pain and heartache I've been through. Now I will admit that our marriage is better than ever and we have sex all of the time it seems, but there is still that lack of trust and pain deep within me and in her mind it's been 9 years, I need to get past it. She has basically said that (not exactly those words) but something along the lines of it was 9 years ago, I'm a different person, I love you and will fight for you and our marriage, and will never do anything like that again. She even canceled going on a vacation to Florida with her sisters because of my discomfort with the whole thing. (her sisters would most likely champion and affair or at least conceal it) She has upheld her part probably 90-95% it's just her lack of understanding and the fact that she "forgets" our rules at times and then acts as if it's no big deal.


You just stayed together. True reconciliation is rare from what I’ve seen. 
Being a martyr or marriage warden is a thankless task.
The reason you don’t trust her is simple. The capability to cheat is there.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Jdub said:


> Not very often. In fact she had to go 1.5 hours away earlier this week and her company offered her a hotel room. She decided to get up at 3:30 in the morning and drive down there and then back that evening instead of making me uncomfortable with her that far away in a hotel with other people from her company from other areas of the country staying in the same hotel.


At least she seems to get something.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

Jdub said:


> It has been 9 long years since d-day and my wife still can't understand why I don't trust her. She wonders why I ask her if she has been with anyone else when she's away from home overnight or fails to tell me when she goes to lunch and when she's off work or when it takes her a bit too long to get home.


If she doesn't understand even after all these nine years, then I'm sorry to say that she's not the one for you. It does not look like she's learn anything from that experience.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Jdub said:


> Not very often. In fact she had to go 1.5 hours away earlier this week and her company offered her a hotel room. She decided to get up at 3:30 in the morning and drive down there and then back that evening instead of making me uncomfortable with her that far away in a hotel with other people from her company from other areas of the country staying in the same hotel.


That really didn’t answer the question though, it was just a defense of your wife.

Was her affair partner going to be there? If so, it should have been off the table from the get-go, not something for her to “decide”


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

My bet is she understand just fine, she just doesn't care. She knows that she can get away with it.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

sokillme said:


> My bet is she understand just fine, she just doesn't care. She knows that she can get away with it.


She might also think she has a degree of protection from having to “do the work” because of the scandal within the church if the affair became public. So he allows it to be rug-swept.


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## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

No it's not you. Some women just don't get it. Some think they can say sorry and that you can trust them even after lying countless times to you. My wife tore down my trust so many times I lost count but she still is puzzled why I cannot trust her. That just sends a big red flag that it's just not that big of deal to her. So I would be very cautious as this may be a big deal to you but not to her.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Jdub said:


> I'm doing much better. I did tell my wife about my feelings so she knows about it and she asks me about it on a regular basis*. It is hard for her since she is probably her closest friend *and my wife believes that this lady is in love with me too. So I never thought about it before, but this could be why I have the perception that she doesn't understand. But yet this has been happening since before I even met this other lady. But yes, I still do have feelings for her. They aren't as strong (although I have my days, usually when I'm triggered about my wife affair, but they are becoming less)


You're on here complaining about your wife's lack of understanding of why you don't trust her over something that happened over 9 years ago while you are actively engaged in an emotional affair with her closest friend? Have I read that right?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> You're on here complaining about your wife's lack of understanding of why you don't trust her over something that happened over 9 years ago while you are actively engaged in an emotional affair with her closest friend? Have I read that right?


Hmmm, seems a bit hypocritical.


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## Butforthegrace (Oct 6, 2021)

Even in the best of reconciliation stories, the AP and the A become more or less permanent plus ones in the marriage, albeit their role(s) gradually diminish in magnitude over time. But in your case, it sounds like there was a fair amount of rug-sweeping, the kind where you set yourself on fire to keep other people warm. Now, you're (emotionally) crippled and this is the result. Marital detente built upon your lingering mistrust and her walking on eggshells to avoid triggering it, you being emotionally distant due to the connection with her friend. Meanwhile, this is the model of marriage you are presenting to your kids as normal. "She won't allow me to divorce her" -- that, you must know, is a dishonest statement. Divorce in the US does not require consent of the other spouse. The more accurate statement is that you seem to take some sort of perverted pleasure from holding yourself out as a martyr. I think you like the way it gives you the feeling of having a simulacrum of power in the relationship. Good luck with all that.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

blackclover3 said:


> if she cant understand how you feel and why you don't trust her that means she is still cheating or thinking about cheating. if she is truly remorseful she would prevent any these questions from happening.
> 
> this is your choice to stay with a cheater and let her stay in the same job(?) - you were better off leaving and marrying someone else.
> 
> by staying you taught your kids it is ok to cheat and stay in marriage while in pain.


While ideally, we would like this to be true, often it is not.

Sometimes people have personality disorders, toxic shame, or other factors that can present symptoms like this, even if they are no longer cheating.

That said, if 9 years later she can't find empathy for the OP, perhaps it's time to let her go.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I think it would be pretty hard if not impossible for any spouse who is currently being cheated on to find empathy for their partner.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Jdub said:


> Same company but we moved to a different state. Our kids do not know about her affair (that we know of anyway) which is another thing that kinda bothers me because they treat her like she can do no wrong but treat me like...well like typical teenagers treat their dad's. But they have no idea what I went through to keep our family together. How many times I've thought about sitting in my car in the garage and starting the engine and just waiting to fall asleep and be gone. They have no idea of the pain and heartache I've been through. Now I will admit that our marriage is better than ever and we have sex all of the time it seems, but there is still that lack of trust and pain deep within me and in her mind it's been 9 years, I need to get past it. She has basically said that (not exactly those words) but something along the lines of it was 9 years ago, I'm a different person, I love you and will fight for you and our marriage, and will never do anything like that again. She even canceled going on a vacation to Florida with her sisters because of my discomfort with the whole thing. (her sisters would most likely champion and affair or at least conceal it) She has upheld her part probably 90-95% it's just her lack of understanding and the fact that she "forgets" our rules at times and then acts as if it's no big deal.


I'm sorry man but this is all on you. Tell your kids if you want. Leave if you want. Tell your wife if you are unhappy if you want. Divorce your wife if you want. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

You have agency and you have responsibility for your own life. Pick up the pieces and figure it out.

Here is a universal truth - Passive people get cheated on. Passive people have unhappy lives. 

YOU HAVE AGENCY IN YOUR LIFE!


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## Jdub (Jun 16, 2019)

DudeInProgress said:


> That really didn’t answer the question though, it was just a defense of your wife.
> 
> Was her affair partner going to be there? If so, it should have been off the table from the get-go, not something for her to “decide”


No, he lives halfway across the country now (I keep tabs on the pile of trash) He has not been with her company for 6-7 years now and had already transferred to another city before she confessed the affair to me.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Jdub said:


> No, he lives halfway across the country now (I keep tabs on the pile of trash) He has not been with her company for 6-7 years now and had *already transferred to another city before she confessed the affair to me*.


Never a good sign when the betrayer gets to choose the timing for their "confession." Essentially, after it no longer was a thing for her, because he pulled out. She got to choose her moment, her terms. She's likely still doing that.

I've probably already given you this link. If you haven't yet read it, please consider doing so now and get back to us with how closely it hits to home, and what you think of its messaging for the betrayer. Minwalla Model


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

You have to live with the fact that she cheated on you. She has to live with the fact that you will never fully trust her. If her behavior is becoming sketchy, don't put up with it. Bluntly, part of the price of staying together is that you will never fully trust her again, nor should you. You state that she sometimes doesn't come home at night. Is that because she is out of town because of work? She should be happy to mollify your fears that she might be up to no good. The fact that she is complaining about it shows her lack of compassion, understanding, and remorse. It is also a red flag. As the red flags add up, prepare for what might be coming down the line.

Finally, your admission that sometimes you feel like turning on the car ignition in the garage and just go to sleep is extremely disconcerting. You remain extremely troubled. Your lack of respect from your teenage children is inexcusable. Get into counseling to help you deal with your feelings and chart a positive track to get you out of infidelity. This is no way to live.


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

I just read your revelation that you have a crush on your WW's best friend and you think she might feel the same. Hmm. If the two of you have expressed feelings for each other and have corresponded back and forth about your feelings, then, you are in an EA. If it is just you who experience these feelings and the friend has not reciprocated in any way, I would not necessarily call it an EA. Nevertheless, this is not a good development. It may be a consequence of your WW's infidelity that you have developed such feelings. In any event, my recommendation still stands. Get into counseling so that you can pursue a positive path out of infidelity. You should also deal with the possible EA in counseling.


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

*Jdub*

folks have posted some good info (and maybe some that won't apply in your case?) so I won't add to that - just a story
about trust.

Wife and Neighbor friend have movie night on Fridays - I can do whatever I want (well nothing immoral or criminal anyway, drat) 
Last Friday wife went to friends house. Side note: Friend is a bit challenged on boundaries/morals etc.
Normally their movie watching ends 12-1 AM when at either house. 
Side note #2: Friend and married spouse have had separate bedrooms for a almost 2 decades. How do I know?
We watch out for each other pets when the other travels so visits and sharing house keys normal.

Past Friday - friends spouse is "out of state at a car race."
Wife doesn't return home by 1AM. hmmm . . . 2 AM ??? *3AM!! *wtf? Thinking it has been quite some time since she cheated (and I stayed - duh?) 4AM holy ??? being a bit trusting I stew for a few minutes and think two things.
First - maybe something happened and I should go over and physically check on them.
But (overthinking?) what if "nothing happened" to them but - 
But - what if they BOTH have a "friend" over? Finding that situation would result in some very unpleasant activities that could result in my demise or someone else. (I can be a hot-head if I lose myself - but not likely in this case)
I decide I will use Google Voice and call (Friend doesn't know my Google voice # and Wife has no clue about Google Voice.)
Make the call - no answer - arrrgh!
Wait 10 min - call again - get 'friend' answer: "Hello?" etc.
I say nothing. Time now is about 4:30 AM 
Wife shows up a few minutes later (Friend is less than a mile drive) and scoots into carport.
Comes into the house and says: "We lost track of time - etc." and trots right up to the shower.
Then I go into the dirty clothes hamper and pull out her panties and sniff. She sees and BLAM!
It has been a week - still cold towards me. No need for Checkmate as pants clean (used protection?)

Or, did the Really Watch multiple movies till 4 AM (from about 7PM earlier?)

What is the story here? Trust is NEVER going to be 100% and anything that doesn't pass the "Sniff Test" is going
to drive you nuts.

Betrayal - the gift of a lifetime


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

How have you been treating your wife for the past 9 years?

Do you think the kids have picked up on it?

Are you wondering why they treat you like crap?

How about why they love on their mom?

It’s because they don’t know the reason behind the messed up relationship between you and your cheating wife. The time to tell them was about 9 years ago. Never to late for the truth to be known.

Simple explanation would be the best.

“Kids, I love you very much. So much so, when your mom cheated on me 9 years ago, I stayed. And so on.”

They need to know why you and your cheater aren’t this happy loving couple. They need to know why you stayed.
Your wife needs to tell them that she cheated. That she is the one that broke the relationship. Your kids will grow to dislike and hate you if you don’t give them the truth. This needs to be done before it’s to late.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Jdub said:


> Same company but we moved to a different state. Our kids do not know about her affair (that we know of anyway) which is another thing that kinda bothers me because they treat her like she can do no wrong but treat me like...well like typical teenagers treat their dad's. But they have no idea what I went through to keep our family together. How many times I've thought about sitting in my car in the garage and starting the engine and just waiting to fall asleep and be gone. They have no idea of the pain and heartache I've been through. Now I will admit that our marriage is better than ever and we have sex all of the time it seems, but there is still that lack of trust and pain deep within me and in her mind it's been 9 years, I need to get past it. She has basically said that (not exactly those words) but something along the lines of it was 9 years ago, I'm a different person, I love you and will fight for you and our marriage, and will never do anything like that again. She even canceled going on a vacation to Florida with her sisters because of my discomfort with the whole thing. (her sisters would most likely champion and affair or at least conceal it) She has upheld her part probably 90-95% it's just her lack of understanding and the fact that she "forgets" our rules at times and then acts as if it's no big deal.


she hasn’t done the work to repair the damage she caused.

you don’t trust her = you have no basis for your marriage.

why are you staying when she completely disrespects you?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Being betrayed destroys your trust. Even if you had divorced her you would still be having the same trust issues with other women in all likelihood when you moved forward.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

ShatteredKat said:


> *Jdub*
> 
> folks have posted some good info (and maybe some that won't apply in your case?) so I won't add to that - just a story
> about trust.
> ...


this would never work for me! Anyone out until 2 am much less 4:30am isn’t respecting you!

and someone who has cheated in the past? Sheez, talk about walking all over you.

I’d be done with her the minute she walked in the house! And SHE gives you a cold shoulder? What a total a$$!!!!! talk about entitled! Why is she acting like she is 20 years old? And why do you stay?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Jdub said:


> _*She refuses to divorce me....*_



LOL....*THAT'S *the excuse you're using to stay right where you are because you're too damned AFRAID to do anything else?

Here's a newsflash, OP. I see you live in the United States, so that excuse is silly and it doesn't work.

Find your damned spine and stop allowing this woman to **** all over you. Where is your pride?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You can divorce her. Why haven’t you taken action?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Jdub said:


> It has been 9 long years since d-day and my wife still can't understand why I don't trust her. She wonders why I ask her if she has been with anyone else when she's away from home overnight or fails to tell me when she goes to lunch and when she's off work or when it takes her a bit too long to get home. I reming her that it only takes a few minutes for her to give a guy a BJ to which she gets mad about. She also doesn't understand why after all o these years I still don't buy it when she uses the same language she used back then. For example, I will see a guy at her work being nice to her (I know, shouldn't be a big deal) so I will ask her about him and she will say "that's gross". Well, the problem is that she said that identical thing about her AP back 9 years ago and she was sucking him off and spreading her legs for him. She refuses to divorce me (she'd probably be better off financially because she refuses promotions because they will strain our marriage) and I really don't want to go through a divorce nor do I want to do that to our kids.
> 
> I guess my question is do you other folks who stayed with you cheating spouse feel this same way or do I have issues that I need to resolve. Or possibly both?


I think she understands, but she wants it rugswept.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Jdub said:


> do you other folks who stayed with you cheating spouse feel this same way or do I have issues that I need to resolve.


I stayed. For a year and a half, I tried to "make it work". Mine was like yours. No remorse. I did not trust her. I resolved that issue, I could not trust her. Period. End. I would never again trust her.
I resolved my issue. I was going to stay until the kids left. Then I was going to haul ass. Pay her the absolute bare minimum. I refused to buy property, just stayed with rent. I wanted NOTHING which tied me to her.

She died at age 36 from liver failure after going through 2 failed transplants. Not then, not since, have I grieved. I resolved with an "emotional divorce".


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Sounds like you've had a horrible 9 years. It's so sad to read about your grief and especially about the car/garage thing. Do you want another 9 of the same? 
I didn't get the bit about the way teenagers treat their Mums as opposed to their Dads. How do they treat you exactly? 
Maybe if she did remember to do all the things she is supposed to, even for a month, it might help.
It's not that hard to remember that you need to phone that you'll be late etc, something that most couples normally do anyway. It's polite if nothing else! She sounds quite casual about something that hurts you deeply. 
From your post, she seems very happy and content and you seem the opposite. 
How do you mean she refuses to divorce her? Have you talked about it recently? I get the impression she thinks you never will. Maybe that's why she 'forgets' the rules you made. 
I really don't have any advice other than I'd rather be divorced than what you're going through. 
Kids are resilient and they adapt. 
IMO to be go through that for 9 miserable years is way too much self-sacrifice just to keep the family intact. 
Think of yourself for a change.


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## truststone (8 mo ago)

Jdub said:


> Same company but we moved to a different state. Our kids do not know about her affair (that we know of anyway) which is another thing that kinda bothers me because they treat her like she can do no wrong but treat me like...well like typical teenagers treat their dad's. But they have no idea what I went through to keep our family together. How many times I've thought about sitting in my car in the garage and starting the engine and just waiting to fall asleep and be gone. They have no idea of the pain and heartache I've been through. Now I will admit that our marriage is better than ever and we have sex all of the time it seems, but there is still that lack of trust and pain deep within me and in her mind it's been 9 years, I need to get past it. She has basically said that (not exactly those words) but something along the lines of it was 9 years ago, I'm a different person, I love you and will fight for you and our marriage, and will never do anything like that again. She even canceled going on a vacation to Florida with her sisters because of my discomfort with the whole thing. (her sisters would most likely champion and affair or at least conceal it) She has upheld her part probably 90-95% it's just her lack of understanding and the fact that she "forgets" our rules at times and then acts as if it's no big deal.


this is all happening because she cheated , she may be past it but the person who got cheated on never does , she just wants you to forget , or maybe its like what @*blackclover3 said she is still cheating.and possible never told you the complete truth . all the things she is doing she has to its whats happenes when you cheat she brought it upon herself not you. the thing that gets me is her attitude like get over it really. who in their right mind would have that attitude if they are truelly sorry and remorseful??? i have read couples who 15-20 yrs after it still affects them and there are 2 side
1) the ww cheating women never ever expects the man to get over it and realizes that the reason he is the way he is is because of what she did... and she is just glad he gave her a chance and knows at any minute she may loose the love of her life if something sets it of , but has sworn to herself to stand there till the end because it was her that brought this to their marriage
2) the otherside is like yiur wife who expects you to get over and has the attitide ive changed so what ??? that doesnt mean the pain you are feeling has gone.. that s good your changed and you dont need a medal for that ??? or to be rewarded that was expected when you got married and becuase you cheated and beuase you choose to stay has nothing to do with her changing its about you trying to get to a point where you can trust and see her in a diiferent light but aslong as you to are together they will always be that elephant in the room that she brought in willingly .... its never and will never just be you too , its always going to be you her and the AP... if the other person could be removed from the picture then maybe you could too but that cannot not happen because the vows where broken .. she broke them and it will always be broken you are doing your best and i comend you !!!in .. *


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## truststone (8 mo ago)

Jdub said:


> Same company but we moved to a different state. Our kids do not know about her affair (that we know of anyway) which is another thing that kinda bothers me because they treat her like she can do no wrong but treat me like...well like typical teenagers treat their dad's. But they have no idea what I went through to keep our family together. How many times I've thought about sitting in my car in the garage and starting the engine and just waiting to fall asleep and be gone. They have no idea of the pain and heartache I've been through. Now I will admit that our marriage is better than ever and we have sex all of the time it seems, but there is still that lack of trust and pain deep within me and in her mind it's been 9 years, I need to get past it. She has basically said that (not exactly those words) but something along the lines of it was 9 years ago, I'm a different person, I love you and will fight for you and our marriage, and will never do anything like that again. She even canceled going on a vacation to Florida with her sisters because of my discomfort with the whole thing. (her sisters would most likely champion and affair or at least conceal it) She has upheld her part probably 90-95% it's just her lack of understanding and the fact that she "forgets" our rules at times and then acts as if it's no big deal.


how can she forget oh that s right she was the one who cheated... you never made those requirements but they are only there because of her actions alone !!! and she forgetes really ??? what if you signed and agreed to reconcille and if she broke one rule then divorce would see easily forget unless she was comfortable and back into her old ways the gaul !!! if anything her attitude would be im soo sorry please forgime i understand what my actions may have triggered . is she not afraid of what they may tirgger?? or does she not have to because all this was rugsweapt ??


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## truststone (8 mo ago)

Jdub said:


> Not very often. In fact she had to go 1.5 hours away earlier this week and her company offered her a hotel room. She decided to get up at 3:30 in the morning and drive down there and then back that evening instead of making me uncomfortable with her that far away in a hotel with other people from her company from other areas of the country staying in the same hotel.


no medal there!!! thats whats expected had she not cheated that would not even matter !!


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## truststone (8 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> That really didn’t answer the question though, it was just a defense of your wife.
> 
> Was her affair partner going to be there? If so, it should have been off the table from the get-go, not something for her to “decide”


exactly !! and if he was tere why did she have to decide think about it clearly ?? excellent point !!!!


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## truststone (8 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> How have you been treating your wife for the past 9 years?
> 
> Do you think the kids have picked up on it?
> 
> ...


also if they find out on thier on what message do you think your teaching them


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

Actually I think your wife is still altering her life on a major scale to accommodate your triggers. Of course she doesn’t understand why after 9 years none of her changes have had any impact on you or your trust level. If you were working on yourself and actually open to reconciliation they would’ve. Sorry but this is on you. I get it, I’m rounding the 9 year mark. Things still hurt and there will never be blind trust. But if you can’t handle a simple trigger after 9 years without the need to a) tell your WS every time you have one and b) make abusive comments about BJ’s only taking a few minutes then you have not done any work on yourself and are just basking in your victimhood at this point. Reconciliation is not a lifetime pass for you to be a **** and expect your WS to grovel every time something hurts. That means you need to work through triggers on your own without using your WS as a punching bag. It doesn’t mean you never talk about it, but if they are taking measures to make you feel safe (which your wife still does, despite your own infidelity) then it is on you. Either do the work or leave because a life of penance not accepted is not good for either of you. There is no time machine.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Bluesclues said:


> Actually I think your wife is still altering her life on a major scale to accommodate your triggers. Of course she doesn’t understand why after 9 years none of her changes have had any impact on you or your trust level. If you were working on yourself and actually open to reconciliation they would’ve. Sorry but this is on you. I get it, I’m rounding the 9 year mark. Things still hurt and there will never be blind trust. But if you can’t handle a simple trigger after 9 years without the need to a) tell your WS every time you have one and b) make abusive comments about BJ’s only taking a few minutes then you have not done any work on yourself and are just basking in your victimhood at this point. Reconciliation is not a lifetime pass for you to be a **** and expect your WS to grovel every time something hurts. That means you need to work through triggers on your own without using your WS as a punching bag. It doesn’t mean you never talk about it, but if they are taking measures to make you feel safe (which your wife still does, despite your own infidelity) then it is on you. Either do the work or leave because a life of penance not accepted is not good for either of you. There is no time machine.


Sorry but I disagree, I'll give the BS a pass on this as long as he/she lives. The deeper the love was, the deeper the cut of betrayal. Some people are cut so deep, the wounds just never fully heals.

The wayward has brought all these consequences upon themselves and more egregiously, through no fault of their own upon the BS. This is a scarlet letter, the shadow of which engulfs a family for eternity.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Sorry but I disagree, I'll give the BS a pass on this as long as he/she lives. The deeper the love was, the deeper the cut of betrayal. Some people are cut so deep, the wounds just never fully heals.
> 
> The wayward has brought all these consequences upon themselves and more egregiously, through no fault of their own upon the BS. This is a scarlet letter, the shadow of which engulfs a family for eternity.


Then don’t reconcile. Your thought process is one of someone who wants - craves - to be miserable for the rest of their life. You are a victim and you thrive on it. No honor in that. Sorry for your weakness. Leave or invest.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Bluesclues said:


> Then don’t reconcile. Your thought process is one of someone who wants - craves - to be miserable for the rest of their life. You are a victim and you thrive on it. No honor in that. Sorry for your weakness. Leave or invest.


.
Not worth it....


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Bluesclues said:


> Actually I think your wife is still altering her life on a major scale to accommodate your triggers. Of course she doesn’t understand why after 9 years none of her changes have had any impact on you or your trust level. If you were working on yourself and actually open to reconciliation they would’ve. Sorry but this is on you. I get it, I’m rounding the 9 year mark. Things still hurt and there will never be blind trust. But if you can’t handle a simple trigger after 9 years without the need to a) tell your WS every time you have one and b) make abusive comments about BJ’s only taking a few minutes then you have not done any work on yourself and are just basking in your victimhood at this point. Reconciliation is not a lifetime pass for you to be a **** and expect your WS to grovel every time something hurts. That means you need to work through triggers on your own without using your WS as a punching bag. It doesn’t mean you never talk about it, but if they are taking measures to make you feel safe (which your wife still does, despite your own infidelity) then it is on you. Either do the work or leave because a life of penance not accepted is not good for either of you. There is no time machine.


Nah, I think almost all BS who R's feel like this for the rest of their lives in some way or another, especially when their WS is unrepentant. The only ones who even have a chance are the ones where the WS moves heaven and earth. Even with those the BS struggles, the ones who say they don't are lying probably most of all to themselves.

OP is a typical person 9 years into trying. His main probable is he expected different. If he continues down this path he will feel the same way 10,20,50 years later too.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Nah, I think almost all BS who R's feel like this for the rest of their lives in some way or another. The ones who say they don't are lying probably most of all to themselves.


How would you know?


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Nah, I think almost all BS who R's feel like this for the rest of their lives in some way or another, especially when their WS is unrepentant. The only ones who even have a chance are the ones where the WS moves heaven and earth. Even with those the BS struggles, the ones who say they don't are lying probably most of all to themselves.
> 
> OP is a typical person 9 years into trying. His main probable is he expected different. If he continues down this path he will feel the same way 10,20,50 years later too.


Nice edit.

How is that any different than what I said? You people who have never reconciled don’t understand that those BS that do actually do stay understand that they need to eat a **** sandwich. And even when things years down the road are great they still taste it. If you are CHOOSING to stay and there are no new **** sandwiches served, then it is up to the BS to swallow what was already served. That is a fact. If you can’t do that then leave. Staying with the WS just to abuse them does not take away the **** sandwich the BS has to eat. I really don’t understand your point. OP’s main problem is not that he expected different - his main problem is that he just wishes it didn’t happen in the first place and nothing short of that is acceptable. That can’t happen so he needs to invest in the new, as imperfect as it is, or leave. Isn’t that what you are saying too?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Bluesclues said:


> How would you know?


It's common sense.

Look at it this way, If you started a business with someone and put in 10 years, busted your ass every day and watched it grow. Your whole life is tied into it, and it seems like a pretty good living. Then you find out the partner stole from you and bankrupted the company. One day everything is fine, the next you out of business, all your money gone, have to start over from scratch. Now say they came to you crying and begging you to start another one. Truly remorseful. So for some reason you did, are you going to feel safe with that person as your partner still? Never going to check the work or the books? Does that make any sense at all? Are you not going to be mad at times when you now live in half the house you once had, it's cramped and cold, the roof leaks. Would anyone think that was possible to just be 100% over this or that is something you should wast time trying to do? Would they think something was wrong with them if they couldn't trust again, couldn't get over it 100%? Would people criticizing them for not get over it? Would anyone be shocked if they had triggers? How about going to church and having them tell you you are not a good person unless you forgive and keep that business with this thief, after all they are sorry. Could you survive like this? I think so. Would it ever be like it was before with the first business? No.

Now imagine the partner who stole wasn't begging, was actually kinda pissed they got caught, and looked back fondly on all the stuff they bought with the money they took. Everyone once and a while the guy would find the thief looking at the stuff they had hidden, and he take it and throw it away. Honestly the theif doesn't really care too much that the company was bankrupt because they were not that into it in the first place. Still not really into it but just kind of hung around in the offices as the guy they stole from started over. And then incredibly the guy keeps the thief around because in his mind before this happend they had fun at the office and built something he has find memories of and besides this is the only partner they had ever known. Because this guys is afraid to start a business by himself at least at first. 

This second scenario IS MUCH MORE TYPICAL SITUATION OF HOW R WORKS. Not the first one I wrote about. Obviously the thief being the WS and the person who was stolen from being the BS. The WS most of the time has fond memories of the affair, expects the BS to just get over it. Gets tired of them complaining about it. Doesn't do a lot of work, and they both don't talk about it much.

In this scenario I just painted it's almost silly and frankly reckless to continue with someone like that. And yet, people will say, how come your are not over it, the BS will rail and lament that they are not over it. They will post on recovery sites and expect someone to give them advice the will allow them to get over it. And people who are in exactly the same state will actually encourage the person who was stolen from to just hang on. Instead of saying WTF are you doing!!! So like I said it's impossible to recover in the second situation. It's just common sense.

I really get tired of the lack of common sense about this stuff so tonight I am going to be blunt. So much of how people think, talk and encourage about R is frankly stupid. It's wrapped in a Disney-like fairy tail ideal. It also sells books by charlatans and snake oil salesman who are preying on desperate people. 

I am not even saying people can R in very rare occurrences and have happy lives at times if both people really, really want it, but the BS is always going to struggle, because to not struggle would be to turn your brain off.

This is what R is and more people should be honest about it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Bluesclues said:


> Nice edit.
> 
> How is that any different than what I said? You people who have never reconciled don’t understand that those BS that do actually do stay understand that they need to eat a *** sandwich. And even when things years down the road are great they still taste it. If you are CHOOSING to stay and there are no new *** sandwiches served, then it is up to the BS to swallow what was already served. That is a fact. If you can’t do that then leave. Staying with the WS just to abuse them does not take away the **** sandwich the BS has to eat. I really don’t understand your point. OP’s main problem is not that he expected different - his main problem is that he just wishes it didn’t happen in the first place and nothing short of that is acceptable. That can’t happen so he needs to invest in the new, as imperfect as it is, or leave. Isn’t that what you are saying too?


I toned it down because I fell bad being so blunt. But my other post pretty much what I think on this subject.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Bluesclues said:


> Nice edit.
> 
> How is that any different than what I said? You people who have never reconciled don’t understand that those BS that do actually do stay understand that they need to eat a *** sandwich. And even when things years down the road are great they still taste it. If you are CHOOSING to stay and there are no new sandwiches served, then it is up to the BS to swallow what was already served. That is a fact. If you can’t do that then leave. Staying with the WS just to abuse them does not take away the *** sandwich the BS has to eat. I really don’t understand your point. OP’s main problem is not that he expected different - his main problem is that he just wishes it didn’t happen in the first place and nothing short of that is acceptable. That can’t happen so he needs to invest in the new, as imperfect as it is, or leave. Isn’t that what you are saying too?


I agree with you. But I also think like I said there is a lot of disney-like thinking about this. So at least at first I am not surprised many BS expect it to be better. Then after a while they are desperate because it doesn't seem like it's getting better and now they have wasted another 5 years.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jdub said:


> It has been 9 long years since d-day and my wife still can't understand why I don't trust her. She wonders why I ask her if she has been with anyone else when she's away from home overnight or fails to tell me when she goes to lunch and when she's off work or when it takes her a bit too long to get home. I reming her that it only takes a few minutes for her to give a guy a BJ to which she gets mad about. She also doesn't understand why after all o these years I still don't buy it when she uses the same language she used back then. For example, I will see a guy at her work being nice to her (I know, shouldn't be a big deal) so I will ask her about him and she will say "that's gross". Well, the problem is that she said that identical thing about her AP back 9 years ago and she was sucking him off and spreading her legs for him. She refuses to divorce me (she'd probably be better off financially because she refuses promotions because they will strain our marriage) and I really don't want to go through a divorce nor do I want to do that to our kids.
> 
> I guess my question is do you other folks who stayed with you cheating spouse feel this same way or do I have issues that I need to resolve. Or possibly both?


Both.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This is the reality that former cheaters can't grasp or don't want to grasp:-

Uncheated on person 'My spouse is late. I hope they haven't met with an accident."

Previously cheated on person "My spouse is late. I hope they haven't met with a lover."


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

However, eventually that lessens over time.

In my case I think "Which family member has tricked her into doing a job, now?" Or "Wow! I can't wait to see what she has bought from a charity shop, now!" As we age our perception of what a good time is changes. 😁


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

After nine years I think counselling would be of benefit.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> After nine years I think counselling would be of benefit.


Dr Minwalla’s paper explains why it can get worse over time, not better. Especially when the betraying spouse frequently asks why you can’t get over it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> Dr Minwalla’s paper explains why it can get worse over time, not better. Especially when the betraying spouse frequently asks why you can’t get over it.


And I'm pretty sure that Dr Minwalla would agree that after nearly a decade on, counselling might be of benefit to the BS?

I speak from a position of personal experience on this issue. Unfortunately.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

If a BS chooses to stay in the marriage surely after many years there has to be some sort of decision to forgive, not to mention it again and move on? I would say if that hasn't happened after 9 years it probably never will.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> And I'm pretty sure that Dr Minwalla would agree that after nearly a decade on, counselling might be of benefit to the BS?
> 
> I speak from a position of personal experience on this issue. Unfortunately.


Dr Minwalla is one of the few to give complete legitimacy to the idea that the trauma, for the betrayed, is ongoing and massive and pretty much universally minimized, not always intentionally, by the betraying spouse. It is a capital T trauma for him, although many therapists think that’s overplayed. Dr Minwalla does not believe betrayal trauma can be “fixed” by simple acceptance and “moving on.”

I’m not one for swearing but I am so f’in sick of hearing that people’s issues, my issues, exist because THEY (the betrayed) haven’t “moved on.” The problem is that many betrayed truly still love their spouse and it’s just not that simple. Things can not be the same. We’re built upon our memories. We might get to a really good place. Maybe even a better place. But it’s not the same place because we can’t “move on” and get back to where we were.

Am I making any sense?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> Dr Minwalla is one of the few to give complete legitimacy to the idea that the trauma, for the betrayed, is ongoing and massive and pretty much universally minimized, not always intentionally, by the betraying spouse. It is a capital T trauma for him, although many therapists think that’s overplayed. Dr Minwalla does not believe betrayal trauma can be “fixed” by simple acceptance and “moving on.”
> 
> I’m not one for swearing but I am so f’in sick of hearing that people’s issues, my issues, exist because THEY (the betrayed) haven’t “moved on.” The problem is that many betrayed truly still love their spouse and it’s just not that simple. Things can not be the same. We’re built upon our memories. We might get to a really good place. Maybe even a better place. But it’s not the same place because we can’t “move on” and get back to where we were.
> 
> Am I making any sense?


I don't think anyone is saying it will be the same, but if both have agreed to stay then surely they has to come a point when it's not dragged up again and again and the one who cheated can never ever be forgiven even many years later. If that's the case then what is the point of staying?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I don't think anyone is saying it will be the same, but if both have agreed to stay then surely they has to come a point when it's not dragged up again and again and the one who cheated can never ever be forgiven even many years later. If that's the case then what is the point of staying?


It's not about constantly "dragging it up." It's about the betrayed spouse being sensitive to things that trigger the betrayed, recognizing why there are trust issues and not putting a time limit on when that will no longer be the case. It's about being proactive rather than reactive. I would die for my wife, just once, ever, to see something portrayed in a movie, gaslighting, lying, something similar to what she did, and say- "Wow, I wish that had never been me." She sees things that, you would think, would trigger her. But they don't, because seeks to put it all aside. To the betrayed, how does that come across?

I was concerned this was a threadjack, so I checked the thread's title. No, I think this is spot-on relevant to what OP might be going through.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> If a BS chooses to stay in the marriage surely after many years there has to be some sort of decision to forgive, not to mention it again and move on? I would say if that hasn't happened after 9 years it probably never will.


To me it would be like a parent molesting a child. Child still living at home, no matter how long the damage is done. Still living with the perp is not going to help the injury. Especially if they are expressing why they can't be trusted any longer. 

It is like the child sex offender stating I messed up one time 9 yrs ago! Why do I have to keep following child safety zones. To me cheating is paramount to date raping an unconscious victim, because you are exposing them to diseases, APs bodily fluids and mental trauma.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> To me cheating is paramount to date raping an unconscious victim, because you are exposing them to diseases, APs bodily fluids and mental trauma.


I cannot agree more. Why adultery is not criminally punishable everywhere is in and of itself am institutional crime against the betrayed.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> To me it would be like a parent molesting a child. Child still living at home, no matter how long the damage is done. Still living with the perp is not going to help the injury. Especially if they are expressing why they can't be trusted any longer.
> 
> It is like the child sex offender stating I messed up one time 9 yrs ago! Why do I have to keep following child safety zones. To me cheating is paramount to date raping an unconscious victim, because you are exposing them to diseases, APs bodily fluids and mental trauma.


It's really REALLY not the same a child abuse believe me. Can't believe you even think that.
If the spouse has chosen to stay then they must know that eventually they must move forward, forgive and learn to trust again. 
I know several couples who have done this successfully.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> It's really REALLY not the same a child abuse believe me. Can't believe you even think that.
> If the spouse has chosen to stay then they must know that eventually they must move forward, forgive and learn to trust again.
> I know several couples who have done this successfully.


Both victims are still affected by seeing their perps daily. Same goes for both scenarios as far as moving forward in life. Just some times it is better to just rid the person from your life


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> Both victims are still affected by seeing their perps daily. Same goes for both scenarios as far as moving forward in life. Just some times it is better to just rid the person from your life


The two are completely incomparable. A child has no choice either, a betrayed spouse does. They can think rationally as a mature adult and make adult decisions. Many children have no choice but to stay with their abuser.


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## GoldenR (Jan 6, 2019)

Come on....Child abuse is NOWHERE close to the same as infidelity. That's just a really bad comparison. 

You don't go to abuser-child counseling afterwards to help the relationship recover. Let's not be silly.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

GoldenR said:


> Come on....Child abuse is NOWHERE close to the same as infidelity. That's just a really bad comparison.
> 
> You don't go to abuser-child counseling afterwards to help the relationship recover. Let's not be silly.


Plus its very demeaning to those who were abused as children to say its similar. In no way is it similar.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

It is hard to really trust someone again who tries to burn the home down with the family inside.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

After 9 years, I think this is as good as it gets for you. So you have to decide, is that good enough to stay with her? Or is it time for divorce at last? You can't say that you didn't give it your best effort.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> After 9 years, I think this is as good as it gets for you. So you have to decide, is that good enough to stay with her? Or is it time for divorce at last? You can't say that you didn't give it your best effort.


That doesn’t have to be the case. That this is as good as it gets. There’s not limit in years for when recovery can happen, and in fact it’s the sort of “why aren’t you over this yet” thinking that may be preventing recovery.

But it doesn’t get better on its own. Both parties have to look at things changing. But the good old days are gone.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Give it another year since you've already put in an investment of 9 years.
Get heavy-duty counselling (for yourself) in that year. Ask her to go to some couples therapy too.

Remember that if we keep doing the same thing, we'll get the same result.

I'm assuming you haven't got counselling up to now? or both of you together?
She seems very casual about your concerns and I agree with what @Casual Observer said, i.e. it's holding you back. No marriage can be a happy one if there isn't empathy. Thing is, did she ever fully understand it?
Personally, after 9 years I doubt she's suddenly going to start feeling empathy now.
All that said, I think you've decided you're going to stay no matter what. And she has said she won't divorce you, I don't know how she can say that because you could decide to divorce her. It shows arrogance, cos maybe she knows you never will.
So do something constructive and different since you're going to stay e.g. what I suggested above.
Otherwise, you'll possibly or even probably be back here in another 9 years.


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## OddOne (Sep 27, 2018)

So he basically posts every year or so since creating his new account (no clue what the old one was), apparently to vent that his WW or FWW, whichever, isn't the kind of person he wishes she was. And that's largely it. It's all well and good to suggest things like therapy, etc., but I highly doubt he'll listen. I think he mostly wants to be heard about how he's still not happy and then go back to his life with hopes and prayers that something will change. He'll probably post a similar thread in 1 to 2 year's time.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OddOne said:


> So he basically posts every year or so since creating his new account (no clue what the old one was), apparently to vent that his WW or FWW, whichever, isn't the kind of person he wishes she was. And that's largely it. It's all well and good to suggest things like therapy, etc., but I highly doubt he'll listen. I think he mostly wants to be heard about how he's still not happy and then go back to his life with hopes and prayers that something will change. He'll probably post a similar thread in 1 to 2 year's time.


And if that's what he, or someone else, male or female, gay or straight, wants to do, then that's fine. Because TAM is here for everyone.


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## OddOne (Sep 27, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> And if that's what he, or someone else, male or female, gay or straight, wants to do, then that's fine. Because TAM is here for everyone.


Fair enough. Hopefully someday he'll make whatever change is needed to be happy.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Plus its very demeaning to those who were abused as children to say its similar. In no way is it similar.


So cheating does not cause mental pain and anguish that is prolonged by being in contact with the WS if the BS tries to reconcile?!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> So cheating does not cause mental pain and anguish that is prolonged by being in contact with the WS if the BS tries to reconcile?!


It's serious. But not as serious as being abused as a child.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

MattMatt said:


> It's serious. But not as serious as being abused as a child.


All things being equal, adultery is the BS being abused to a point of wishing for death rather than the continued pain.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> It's serious. But not as serious as being abused as a child.


Did not say it was, only that remaining in immediate contact with the assailant prolongs the emotional suffering in both instances.

I know about the other also. I have supervised sex offenders for years for Texas. I have read it all, even told them in SO therapy group when asked a question, the best way to deal with a sex offender is with a Colt 45.

I would love to dig up my wife's dead father, by his own hand thank the Lord, just to piss in his casket. If he had not of ate the barrel of the sawed off shotgun, I would have done it for him and not lost a night's sleep. Evil bastard! Would have made for interesting family gatherings.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> And if that's what he, or someone else, male or female, gay or straight, wants to do, then that's fine. Because TAM is here for everyone.


Yes @MattMatt, you're perfectly right and I didn't mean it that way at all but I now see it might have come across like that. It's a process too, everyone in their own time.
Sorry @Jdub if you read it that way too - I wrote it from personal experience because I waited too long myself when it was my turn! Hope you're doing OK.


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## Jdub (Jun 16, 2019)

OddOne said:


> Fair enough. Hopefully someday he'll make whatever change is needed to be happy.


That's why I my posts on here are so few and far between. I keep hoping that it'll be different and people like you will have left to go bully someone else from the comfort of their own home behind a screen. But it never changes. I guess you never heard the old saying that if you don't have anything nice to say (or we can add in helpful) the keep your mouth shut. Or just move along to the next thread.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> So cheating does not cause mental pain and anguish that is prolonged by being in contact with the WS if the BS tries to reconcile?!


It causes pain of course. It's not the same as child abuse however. 
Whether the BS stays is their decision.


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## Jdub (Jun 16, 2019)

Dictum Veritas said:


> All things being equal, adultery is the BS being abused to a point of wishing for death rather than the continued pain.


This is exactly how I feel. I have attempted either suicide or held a loaded and cocked pistol to my head 4 or 5 times since the affair came to light. My wife actually one time came out to the garage to see what I was doing to find my with a rope around my neck and leaning into it to cut off the blood flow to put me out then I would have been strangled by the rope.I have told her many times that I wish she would've come out there 5 minutes later. But, when it comes down to it the thought always comes to my mind "why should I be the one who has to die?" Then awhile back, I read an article that talked about how people who commit suicide don't really want to die, they just want to kill something inside of them and don't know how. I don't want to die, but I really want this pain to die. A couple of weeks ago I told my wife how miserable I am being with her because of that pain. The look on her face was awful. Like she finally got it. I don't know why or how, but for some reason it helped me a lot to get that out there. And there was a lot more to that conversation (3+ hours that night) but she has been different, in a good way. Like she's more understanding of my lack of trust and why, and also my triggers and how she causes them. So maybe we've turned a corner...I hope.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> It causes pain of course. It's not the same as child abuse however.
> Whether the BS stays is their decision.


Never said the pain was the same, just stated the continued contact prolongs the pain.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> Never said the pain was the same, just stated the continued contact prolongs the pain.


Sometimes people are able to forgive and move on. I know several very successful reconciliations that have lasted the test of time, but of course the option otherwise is to leave and many do.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Jdub said:


> This is exactly how I feel. I have attempted either suicide or held a loaded and cocked pistol to my head 4 or 5 times since the affair came to light. My wife actually one time came out to the garage to see what I was doing to find my with a rope around my neck and leaning into it to cut off the blood flow to put me out then I would have been strangled by the rope.I have told her many times that I wish she would've come out there 5 minutes later. But, when it comes down to it the thought always comes to my mind "why should I be the one who has to die?" Then awhile back, I read an article that talked about how people who commit suicide don't really want to die, they just want to kill something inside of them and don't know how. I don't want to die, but I really want this pain to die. A couple of weeks ago I told my wife how miserable I am being with her because of that pain. The look on her face was awful. Like she finally got it. I don't know why or how, but for some reason it helped me a lot to get that out there. And there was a lot more to that conversation (3+ hours that night) but she has been different, in a good way. Like she's more understanding of my lack of trust and why, and also my triggers and how she causes them. So maybe we've turned a corner...I hope.


I hope you have turned that corner, but if that pain persists and the scab has not set after all this time, perhaps consider removing yourself from the source of the pain that continuously picks at the scab that needs to form in order for you to heal.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ShatteredKat said:


> *Jdub*
> 
> folks have posted some good info (and maybe some that won't apply in your case?) so I won't add to that - just a story
> about trust.
> ...


WTF! The cheater has the audacity to be upset! I would have a few choice words for the wife.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ABHale said:


> How have you been treating your wife for the past 9 years?
> 
> Do you think the kids have picked up on it?
> 
> ...


People not knowing burns me up. My sister cheated on BinL for 2.5 yrs. At least the AP moved from Ark. to be the Ranger over a forrest in FLA. If at my sister's funeral someone comes up to me and makes some kind of comment about how good she was...🤬little brother is going to let them know just how good person sister was!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jdub said:


> This is exactly how I feel. I have attempted either suicide or held a loaded and cocked pistol to my head 4 or 5 times since the affair came to light. My wife actually one time came out to the garage to see what I was doing to find my with a rope around my neck and leaning into it to cut off the blood flow to put me out then I would have been strangled by the rope.I have told her many times that I wish she would've come out there 5 minutes later. But, when it comes down to it the thought always comes to my mind "why should I be the one who has to die?" Then awhile back, I read an article that talked about how people who commit suicide don't really want to die, they just want to kill something inside of them and don't know how. I don't want to die, but I really want this pain to die. A couple of weeks ago I told my wife how miserable I am being with her because of that pain. The look on her face was awful. Like she finally got it. I don't know why or how, but for some reason it helped me a lot to get that out there. And there was a lot more to that conversation (3+ hours that night) but she has been different, in a good way. Like she's more understanding of my lack of trust and why, and also my triggers and how she causes them. So maybe we've turned a corner...I hope.


Do you think your state of mind would have been better if you had left?


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## Jdub (Jun 16, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Do you think your state of mind would have been better if you had left?


Sometimes I wonder.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> So cheating does not cause mental pain and anguish that is prolonged by being in contact with the WS if the BS tries to reconcile?!





MattMatt said:


> It's serious. But not as serious as being abused as a child.


I think we do a dis-service to the OP when we make comparative degrees of seriousness for different types of abuse. It might be especially damaging to someone like OP (or me?) when the betrayed spouse might see a betrayed spouse's childhood issues as being a "get out of jail free" card for the betrayer.

Childhood abuse might help to understand why a betraying spouse turned out that way, but it's not an excuse for betrayal. It's totally reasonable, I get it, for someone who was abused growing up to have trust issues and think that everybody does bad things, they're not doing anything their spouse wouldn't do, given an opportunity. Etc etc. Family of origin stories are important.

But. Suppose it turns out that OP's wife was abused as a child. And he reads here about childhood abuse being "the worst" of abuses (which I'm not disagreeing with). This is where it gets tricky, because yes, the cheating is on her, about her. But the reconciliation has to focus on the betrayed's needs, not the betrayer's.

Real world scenario? It only comes to light about a betrayed spouse's childhood abuse during attempted reconciliation. All of a sudden that abuse may seem to eclipse all else.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

It's kind of amazing that your wife found you with a noose around your neck, but is only now recognizing your pain. Is her newfound empathy real?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> I think we do a dis-service to the OP when we make comparative degrees of seriousness for different types of abuse. It might be especially damaging to someone like OP (or me?) when the betrayed spouse might see a betrayed spouse's childhood issues as being a "get out of jail free" card for the betrayer.
> 
> Childhood abuse might help to understand why a betraying spouse turned out that way, but it's not an excuse for betrayal. It's totally reasonable, I get it, for someone who was abused growing up to have trust issues and think that everybody does bad things, they're not doing anything their spouse wouldn't do, given an opportunity. Etc etc. Family of origin stories are important.
> 
> ...


Child abuse has nothing at all to do with this case that I am aware of..... a comment was made, that like child abuse... remaining in contact with your abuser/betrayer prolongs the mental pain and anguish duration. That is it. Nothing more.


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## masterofmasters (Apr 2, 2021)

it's been 9 long years. how long are you two going to be doing this to yourselves? more specifically, you.

you've tried to end yourself multiple times now because of her infidelity. and she STILL doesn't understand why you need frequent reassurance.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Jdub said:


> Like she finally got it. I don't know why or how, but for some reason it helped me a lot to get that out there. And there was a lot more to that conversation (3+ hours that night) but she has been different, in a good way. Like she's more understanding of my lack of trust and why, and also my triggers and how she causes them. So maybe we've turned a corner...I hope.


Gee @Jdub , you've sure had a rough time with this.
Can you think of anything your W could do to make you feel more secure?
She wants to stay with you as much as you want to stay with her. Cos she's still with you after 9 years which sure is a long time.
That's a very good sign in itself. Perhaps focus on that and look forward rather than backwards. Life goes by pretty quickly.
What you said above does sound encouraging. Maybe posting on here brings it up for you in a constructive way so that you start conversations with her about it more than usual. . .
I know it's easy for me to give advice.
These are just things that came to mind when I saw your more recent posts .
If you don't mind me asking what stage of life are you at? kids etc?


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

Jdub said:


> I don't trust her.


Hey, it's your life, but it would be "I'm out" for many of us if that was how we felt.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Plus its very demeaning to those who were abused as children to say its similar. In no way is it similar.


I experienced both. No, they are not similar. But, in some ways, my wife's betrayal is more difficult to recover from.
In the abuse situation( I was 11) an older man, a neighbor molested me repeatedly.
It definitely damaged me quite a bit.
However, my wife's s betrayal seems to have affected me adversely more. I read about the why.
In infidelity, one is being betrayed by a trusted partner. All pleasant memories are vitiated by doubts about their authenticity. 
There seems to be less support for the betrayed as compared to the sexually abused child, as well. No one helps you very much. Folks who have not been their seem to expect one to just get over it relatively quickly and they have been conditioned through media, books, movies etc. to believe the trauma is really not that great. This in contrast to how we view the effects of child sexual abuse and the availability of resources to help the child.
I think there are other distinctions, too. As mentioned , I had nomtrust relationship with my abuser vs my having had complete trust in my wife. Some folks suggest the betrayed played a role in causing the cheating. You do not see that with child sexual abuse, the victim being blamed.
I have read that for the aforementioned reasons, recover from infidelity is more difficult than recovery from sexual assault.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

GoldenR said:


> Come on....Child abuse is NOWHERE close to the same as infidelity. That's just a really bad comparison.
> 
> You don't go to abuser-child counseling afterwards to help the relationship recover. Let's not be silly.


I guess in my opinion, having experienced both, I think both are egregious abuses. A case can be made for either one being more egregious. My abuse as a child has, definitely, stayed with me, affecting me adversely in many ways. In fact having read about betrayal superimposed on a previously abused person having greater than usual effect, I am quite certain that my wife's s cheating exacerbated the lingering effects of the child sexual abuse.
Susan Anderson explains why in her book " The Journey from Abandonment to Healing ". Different neurochemicals are released when a previously damaged person is betrayed vs a betrayal of a healthier person.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> It's serious. But not as serious as being abused as a child.


This is very individual. I have been through both. I have no preference for one vs the other. Both are very damaging and both result from being used and disrespected. Child sexual abuse can come from someone one trusts, but not necessarily. A spouse cheating , by definition, comes from someone one trusts.
Little to no victim blaming in the sexual,abuse situation. It is somewhat prevalent, however in the infidelity situation.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Sorry your are still in limbo.
Maybe you should take some time and figure out what you want and then what actions you need to get there.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*OK, folks please don't threadjack. If you need to raise an important issue or topic, please start your own thread, OK?  *


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Jdub said:


> I remind her that it only takes a few minutes for her to give a guy a BJ to which she gets mad about.


Less than 5 minutes to be exact (or so I heard). But if he/she is real good at it, probably less than 2.

A very large chunk of cheaters seem to be in it for the thrill of the moment, the dopamine rush. They love taking part in fondling "micro-sessions" (making out, touching each other's parts for a few minutes, etc). They KNOW their time together is limited and they are probably being watched, so they learn to do everything in half the time. This is most likely the reason some cheaters go home and give it to their wives/husbands like a porn actor/actress. BE CAREFUL if this happens to you. If your significant other comes home from work and either 1) goes straight into the shower or 2) wants to have sex right there and then, you've got yourself a cheater!


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

I don't know how people like you do it (I don't mean that in a derogatory way). I was with my cheating ex-wife for 10 weeks after d-day, trying to reconcile. It was the most painful, wrenching, horrible 10 weeks of my life. As painful as divorcing her and losing my family was, it paled in comparison to the anguish I was suffering while staying with her, knowing what she had done and who she was. Your story is proof that the pain and mistrust never, ever goes away. Good luck to you brother, my heart goes out to you.


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

Bluesclues said:


> Actually I think your wife is still altering her life on a major scale to accommodate your triggers. Of course she doesn’t understand why after 9 years none of her changes have had any impact on you or your trust level. If you were working on yourself and actually open to reconciliation they would’ve. Sorry but this is on you. I get it, I’m rounding the 9 year mark. Things still hurt and there will never be blind trust. But if you can’t handle a simple trigger after 9 years without the need to a) tell your WS every time you have one and b) make abusive comments about BJ’s only taking a few minutes then you have not done any work on yourself and are just basking in your victimhood at this point. Reconciliation is not a lifetime pass for you to be a **** and expect your WS to grovel every time something hurts. That means you need to work through triggers on your own without using your WS as a punching bag. It doesn’t mean you never talk about it, but if they are taking measures to make you feel safe (which your wife still does, despite your own infidelity) then it is on you. Either do the work or leave because a life of penance not accepted is not good for either of you. There is no time machine.


Some Grade A victim blaming right there.


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## georgel316000 (Nov 3, 2021)

Funny how your wife doesn't understand your pain but she's jealous of your texting with her friend? Say to your wife welcome to my world but my world is 100 times worse, she only feel a sliver of what you're going thru from her cheating.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

Asterix said:


> If she doesn't understand even after all these nine years, then I'm sorry to say that she's not the one for you. It does not look like she's learn anything from that experience.


Apologies for quoting myself.



sokillme said:


> My bet is she understand just fine, she just doesn't care. She knows that she can get away with it.





Jdub said:


> I will see a guy at her work being nice to her (I know, shouldn't be a big deal) so I will ask her about him and she will say "that's gross". Well, the problem is that she said that identical thing about her AP back 9 years ago and she was sucking him off and spreading her legs for him. She refuses to divorce me (she'd probably be better off financially because she refuses promotions because they will strain our marriage) and I really don't want to go through a divorce nor do I want to do that to our kids.





Jdub said:


> Now I will admit that our marriage is better than ever and we have sex all of the time it seems, but there is still that lack of trust and pain deep within me and in her mind it's been 9 years, I need to get past it.


How is it better in this case? If she thinks that you need to get past her cheating, then that's not the kind of thinking that a remorseful person has. She may be saying all the right things, but deep down it's possible that she does not feel remorse for her cheating and only regret. If she felt remorse, then she wouldn't have said such a thing and would have understood why you would still feel this way.

I'm sure you may have came across this analogy before. A cheating in a relationship is like breaking of a vase. It took relatively short time to craft the vase which was broken in a flash. Now to put it back together is going to take a very long time. It would be difficult to find all the small broken pieces so the vase can never be whole and all the cracks and faults in the vase would be clear and obvious for anyone to see.

The possibility here is that she may not be cheating with the original person but it could very well be someone else entirely.

You mentioned that the kids are teenagers now, so they probably get to decide whom to live with should you guys decide to separate.

What I'm wondering is what is it really that you've been getting out of this relationship? What's keeping you?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

@Jdub hasn’t been around since early July. He’s probably feeling like TAM is a no-win scenario right now; he can tell us his marriage has been better than ever and people tell him his full of it. He clearly would like to stay married but again, he’ll be told he’s deceiving himself. His wife is acting like she always should have but all he hears, at the end of the day, is that he needs to get over it. Which everyone assumes is a sign of lack of remorse. And it may be. Or it may be that she just doesn’t know how to reach him, she’s speaking a different language and in her language she’s actually saying, I’m frustrated, I want to do everything I can for you, but one thing I can’t do, one thing it seems like you want, is to go back and change the past.

Who would want to come back here and hear all that? When instead they can try and focus on being happy at this moment and hope the mind movies might stay away s little bit longer next time?


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Casual Observer said:


> @Jdub Or it may be that she just doesn’t know how to reach him, she’s speaking a different language and in her language she’s actually saying, I’m frustrated, I want to do everything I can for you, but one thing I can’t do, one thing it seems like you want, is to go back and change the past.
> 
> Who would want to come back here and hear all that? When instead they can try and focus on being happy at this moment and hope the mind movies might stay away s little bit longer next time?


Yeah, but sometimes cheating is just a deal-breaker, no matter how remorseful the WS is. I think OP needs to start being honest with himself. This marriage is a rotting corpse that he has been carrying on his back for too long.


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