# My pain and her pain



## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

Me and my wife were talking about the 4 month affair she had 4 years ago. I still have times that I trigger and have problems. I also hooked up with a escort a few months before hers started for a HJ. She has a hard time talking to me with out getting upset, but did a pretty good job this time.
What lead up to the affair was about 10 years of relationship problems. Mainly me doing whatever I wanted and spending what I wanted. She came to me about it but it always ended in a fight. I also had resentments towards her for always quitting work during the hard times. She said she wasn't going to work to pay for the things I wanted. She also was self medicating at those times. I know I was wrong for most of the things I done and own up to them. She also owns up to the affair and said what I did was no excuse for her to have the affair. 
The thing is almost every time I come to her when I have triggers she insists on comparing the pain of how she felt unloved and how I didn't take care of us financially during that time (which I did we lived very good but in debt), to the pain I have of her affair as being equal. She says the thing I did with the escort doesn't bother her as much as the money I spent and neglect that she felt.
It wasn't that one sided though. I was smothered by her when we were first married and I have always been the type of person that has something going on. I raced Dirt bikes, then go karts for a while etc. Also bought cars and motor home that we all used. I always sold something before I moved on to the next.
We didn't communicate very well at all which contributed to the problems.
Is really possible the pain she feels for the things I did in the past is as bad as her 4 month physical/emotional affair with all the betrayal and lying etc. She doesn't bring it up other then when I bring up a trigger or something. She just wants to make sure I know it is equal to my pain, and will bring up anything in the past she can to try and convince me or make me understand.
I just don't compare the 2 as the same. She could of left me, threatened divorce, etc. instead of seeking attention somewhere else. She claims she didn't want to because she still loved me.
Sorry I am not giving anymore info then this, what do you all think?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

nxs450 said:


> Me and my wife were talking about the 4 month affair she had 4 years ago. I still have times that I trigger and have problems. I also hooked up with a escort a few months before hers started for a HJ. She has a hard time talking to me with out getting upset, but did a pretty good job this time.
> 
> What lead up to the affair was about 10 years of relationship problems. Mainly me doing whatever I wanted and spending what I wanted. She came to me about it but it always ended in a fight. I also had resentments towards her for always quitting work during the hard times. She said she wasn't going to work to pay for the things I wanted. She also was self medicating at those times. I know I was wrong for most of the things I done and own up to them. She also owns up to the affair and said what I did was no excuse for her to have the affair.
> 
> ...


There is no way for you to know "her pain" and there is no way for her to know "your pain." In general, from the experiences of many posters on this site, some of whom have been both cheated on and the cheater, the pain of being the betrayed spouse is just about one of the most painful things one can go through in life.

So, to answer your question, it's not likely that the pain she feels from your financial decisions are as bad as the pain you feel from her affair.

It sounds like she just doesn't want you to hold the moral high ground so she brings up the other things.

Can you give a specific example of you going to her with a trigger?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Same sh1t different thread.

I find that when I trigger/ bring up my old ladies affairs' that I have to calmly dissifer her behaviors and my behaviors.

Its helpful to acknowledge her remarks nd statements.

Its also important that the current discussion is not about blame , calling anyone out , or pointing fingers.... The discussions is about a specific trigger and the pain that it has for you now.

Most likely once your are finished she will need to make her statement and make her testament with regard to the pain you caused her, and that should be acknowledged , but is you have a questions you should get a answer.

At the end of the night or even when things get heated in the beginning of these discussion I found that bring up boundaries is the best way to turn it all a round.

For instance once she goes off about how you thru her to the ground 20 years ago and how that hurt her, you mention that you will no longer have that behavior and that you now have the tools to prevent that from happening again. But what you need is how will you *affair proof the marriage from here on out*.....


see how you can re direct the convey from the blame shifting toward addressing the trigger?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The main thing I'm trying to get across is when you talk about triggers , by nature she will see this as an attack and start with the defense by pointing fingers back at you.

Ya I know you not pointing fingers or attacking, your just trying to deal with a trigger.

Thats why addressing boundaries is the best recourse.

See it no longer an attack/ pointing fingers, but addressing the boundary that will prevent her from what ever...

Say your trigger is about toxic girl friends and GNO...

Talking about the time she went out a hundred years ago with suzy the sl8t and her friend Brenda the all at once kinda girl and she didn;t come home for 2 days...


talk about " if Brenda call or Suzy called, it would be a trigger and hard on the already fragile marriage. what would you do" 

Here talking about the past but directing the topic with regards to what happened in the past and what she can do to prevent it from happening again.


In short your not pointing fingers but asking about and stating boundaries that will prevent the past from happening again.

I mean she knows what she did with Suzy and brenda...she knows what kinda girls they are.... the focus is establishing boundaries to reassure that the triggers you have are addressed and not argued in who is right and who is wrong.

Hell she will even address her own boundaries with regards to you and that great...

Pointing fingers = bad
discussing boundaries=good


And remember don';t judge, stay calm and learn, understand and face this crap head on so it never happens again.

once you guys own your sh1t and are willing to face your bad behavior, then you can see that there are tools out there that can prevent this crap from happening again.

Any way thats been my luck with my FWW, there all different...chicks go figure!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Will_Kane said:


> There is no way for you to know "her pain" and there is no way for her to know "your pain." In general, from the experiences of many posters on this site, some of whom have been both cheated on and the cheater, the pain of being the betrayed spouse is just about one of the most painful things one can go through in life.
> 
> So, to answer your question, it's not likely that the pain she feels from your financial decisions are as bad as the pain you feel from her affair.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

WK, I had and experience that may help OP.

I saw a couple meet at the car pool parking lot and made out for a few and left int he cars they arriaved in.

I got home and told my FWW and she automaicly went to " it hurt me when you cleared the table with by body".

I said I know it did and now affter 53 sessions of AM I now have the tools to prvent it from happening again ...but getting back to what I witnessed to day it brough up your experienceses that you had with OM and it sucked.

My FWW told me it sucked for both of us and I responded that I have learned the tool for my behaviors and you ahve learned the tools for her behavior...I'm curiuor what are those tools you learned in IC that will prevent you from meeting OM in the park and dojng what you did in the woods?

MY point is its easy to point fingures, the trick is what are the boundries and what have the wayward learned in affair proofing the marriage.... and like in my case the consequences are always discussed and admitting to the capicities we both have and how unhealthy they are.

Just like any thing you have to work out the best out coem so both parties are happy.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

This R business is no easy ride!

Even when I get homw from work and I unlock my FWW from her cage, I wonder if she is tapping on the pipes and communicating with the OM! LOL

I still think that if OM and FWW flush the toliets at the same time they can get notes passed thru the sewer pipes. LOL


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Thing is OP said his problem was doing whatever the heck he wanted, within a marriage that can be hugely detrimental, also coupled with the fact he went to an escort for the HJ, you kind of get the sense of OP's attitude. A man who did what he wanted when he wanted, maybe the wife did try to confront and talk about it and wasn't listened to. What drove him to the escort in the first place?
Not condoning the affair but it seems you two reached a point where she said ok I'll do whatever because he's off doing what he wants.

Stop comparing pain. Start to address the issues prior to the affair and HJ.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I agree, you don't want to get in a contest about who's pain is worse, who's past behaviour was ****tier. Neither of you can change the past, you have to just work on defusing the triggers together like the guy is getting at, and work towards being supportive partners as you move forward.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OP, you started this messy situation, so you must take responsibility for it and work with your wife to address your issue and fix it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

It wasn't just the money I spent but the neglect she said she felt because the last 13 years she felt I loved my things or rather I spent more time with my stuff then I did with her. Which in the latter part is true. I had resentments as she did and when she would come to me about what I was doing I always felt attacked like she didn't want me to do the things I enjoyed. Like I said we had communication problems.
Also I brought up the fact the first 6 to 8 years we were married that I felt neglected sexually and didn't have the physical intimacy near as much as I needed. She totally dismissed it as I was just a old horn dog and didn't need it that often. That she was busy with the new kids and times she didn't feel attractive etc. But to me it wasn't just about the physical part alone because a man needs that with his wife to feel wanted. Now I'm not talking every day and there were always times it could not be expected and Guys just have to take matters in there own hand sometimes when it is just pure physical. But I don't like the fact she dismisses it totally and says it isn't comparable to the other feelings of hurt. 
I know this sounds like is turning into a who is hurt the most contest, but I think we are just trying to work through everything in the past that caused problems in our marriage.


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> OP, you started this messy situation, so you must take responsibility for it and work with your wife to address your issue and fix it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not sure what you mean? I am nothing like I was in the past. The triggers I can't help and need to talk about them to get them out of my mind. I know I wasn't the perfect husband and had issues. But she did as well. I don't want to go into detail and turn this into a big blame game, but we were both at fault in our past.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

If she was that miserable why didn't she just leave you? Yes, you were neglectful, irresponsible with money and it sounds like you were a poor excuse of a husband BUT she could have walked away - wives do it every day. She chose to handle it in the most damaging way possible. 

Why did you seek out an "escort"? 10 years of relationship problems? Why didn't you leave? 

Have you had marriage counseling? The tit for tat nonsense needs to stop; otherwise, neither of you feels heard. She refuses to help you heal by negating your pain (that she is responsible for), then heaps on the guilt. So she is clearly not showing remorse for her affair, a remorseful spouse would apologize every time you triggered. AND ask how they could help.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

To me the real issue her is the blamshifting.
Don't fall in the trapp on comparing becasue this is not the issue. There's no way to compare pains. Yours is yours and hers is her. Both are "right".

The issue I have is every time you trigger she chose bring her own pain as a jeark knee reaction to shut you up. She feels outraged you dare to hurt or at least to bother her displaying your pain over this.

You are going to trigger, she can trigger too (if you behave similarly as in the past or for no reason). Does she use to bring her complains at the past issues within the marriagge and you bring her affair in exchange? I imagine you don't.

So every time you trigger you can't get her to help you, instead of being empathetic she has to change, deflect the issue at hand to compare the pains, suddenly the issue is not your pain anymore.

You can't force her to change this dynamic.
You can just point it out and wait.
The other solution is acceptance. Telling her she "won", you won't ever seek help from her when you trigger, she managed to shut you up and forced you to heal on your own from now on which is bassicaly her motivation.


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

Aunt Ava said:


> If she was that miserable why didn't she just leave you? Yes, you were neglectful, irresponsible with money and it sounds like you were a poor excuse of a husband BUT she could have walked away - wives do it every day. She chose to handle it in the most damaging way possible.
> 
> Why did you seek out an "escort"? 10 years of relationship problems? Why didn't you leave?
> 
> Have you had marriage counseling? The tit for tat nonsense needs to stop; otherwise, neither of you feels heard. She refuses to help you heal by negating your pain (that she is responsible for), then heaps on the guilt. So she is clearly not showing remorse for her affair, a remorseful spouse would apologize every time you triggered. AND ask how they could help.


She said she still loved me and didn't want to leave me. The OM was just filling the need that I wasn't giving her. She said she thought she could have both.
I don't know why I didn't leave. There were times I thought about it. I was having other problems then also. I was suffering from what I found out later was low Testosterone, thyroid, because of chemo 10 years ago, and was taking Ultram to function so I could work. I didn't have any sex drive at all etc. I still loved her I guess I was just trying to get by, and like I said I felt I was being attacked for what I enjoyed doing. 
I also had the resentments and felt like I was at the end part of my life and because of everything that has happened, my business failing, 2 BK's. lost everything we had, our relationship problems, I was just going try and enjoy something. Since then I have been on Hormone Replacement Therapy and feel a lot better then before.
As far as the escort thing goes I honestly don't know why I did it. I was caught up in the whole sexual atmosphere in Vegas and was drunk when I did. I didn't even have the physical desire and didn't enjoy it or get off. I felt guilty during the act!
It was stupid and I take full responsibility for it.
I agree about the tit for tat has to end. It seems every time I bring up a trigger it gets ugly for one reason or another?
She said that this time she was crying so hard about the pain she caused me that it brought up the emotions she had back when I was doing what I did to neglect her. She said that it has been a long time since she has done that. My point is it seems it is always something when I want to talk about the triggers or pain I am feeling. The thing is we went quite a while with out any problems and I just started triggering more often again and having bad thoughts. 
We just had another big fight this morning about the same things again. I was still un settled about her dismissing what I felt about sexual neglect when we was first married. I just wanted her to acknowledge it was a hurtful thing back then and wasn't just about getting my rocks off. It is nothing that bothers me at all now but I brought it up in reference to what probably contributed to my problems down the road and how I handled things.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

In my case i was physically abusive to my wife, not only did my own thing I did my own thing to my wife with out regard.

So with that being said, you can only bring up your issue and you can't control her but you can inform her that this stalemate the two of you have is not healthy and it still need to be addressed...it isn't going away and "blaming me isn't going to change the fact that we are both hurt and need to discuss healing this pain instead of reliving this pain......

Make sense?

Do this calmly and work together by acknowledging her emotions but also reiterate your current trigger and how you feel its not being addressed when all she does is divert your feels to how she feels and that you agree that both need to respect each others feels so please acknowledge mine instead diverting back to yours so we can move forward.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

When you bring it up does your chick cut you off in mid sentence like mine does?


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

This really wasn't a bad trigger this time. Thursday night I had some things that were bothering me but I chose not to talk about them. Something was bothering me and asked me if they were. I said yes but not to the point I need to talk about them. I said I just need to get a good nights sleep.
My wife has also been sick for the past week and we haven't been very close for over 2 weeks. It seems I really need our intimacy now to stay emotionally connected.
So Friday afternoon she texted me that she was feeling sooo much better and was in the mood to be physically close. I was feeling good too, and the thoughts I had the night before were gone and I was in the mood. She works 1st shift and I work second. She had mentioned that since my son started working that it would give us the opportunity to have some time together at her lunch break. She only works 5 minutes from our house. We were texting back and forth silly things and she said to save it for when she came home at lunch. 
Then right before lunch she called me and said she had to go get my daughter lunch and bring it back to her (she works part time with my wife) and that she had to go by the bank so our intimacy would have to wait. This really hurt me and I got upset. She will wait hand and foot on my daughter and she will take advantage of my wife. The bank thing wasn't urgent. So then she claimed I was just pissed that I wasn't getting laid. WTF!
This triggered me again and the thoughts I was having came back which started this whole f***ing episode.


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## nxs450 (Apr 17, 2012)

the guy said:


> When you bring it up does your chick cut you off in mid sentence like mine does?


No, but she will after it starts and she doesn't agree with something.


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