# Did kids make your marriage better or worse?



## DoYouWoo

I ask because I got talking to come guy friends recently about this (after a couple of drinks - our macho-guards were down!) and opinions varied wildly. For myself, having our 2 boys definitely brought us closer together - sure we snapped at each other a bit when we were tired after a tough night, and our sex life suffered in the short term more due to lack of energy/opportunity than desire - but having a common 'job' of being a parent made us feel more like a team. That contrasts with some of my friends who, although they adore their kids, see them as this massive obstacle to being closer to their wives, almost seeing the kids as competitors for their wife's attention, and it creates friction in their relationship. Just wondering what your experiences are?


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

I have 3 girls. I couldn't imagine life without them. They are very good children, but we are very strict parents! My two youngest 8 and 10 are the best of friends. It's wonderful! For us, it makes our marriage much stronger!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

We have our first one the way, and from day one there has been conflict. I fear that having this baby will drive us farther apart, and while I know he will be a very involved father, he will most likely put up a fuss over sharing the unpleasant and inconvenient parental duties. I fear he will give our baby more of the love and attention I so desperately crave from him, and I know it will sting and cause ugly feelings in me that I already feel guilty about.  When the baby cries he won't walk away, throw his hands in the air and threaten, "This isn't working." When the baby asks for love and reassurance, he'll be there to comfort and cuddle. If I dare say a word about wanting the same devotion from him, I know he'll roll his eyes in disgust, tell me to quit being so insecure, then speak condescendingly about my "jealousy". (Which it might be, but I feel like it may more accurately be called "envy"). I am not looking forward to these feelings at all. I don't want to think these things will happen, but I'd bet money that they do... Sorry to be a negative Nancy. I really want the closeness and comfort from becoming parents with my husband, but in all honesty I don't think that will happen and it shreds me from the inside out... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## worrieddad

For us, worse for sure. We dearly love our daughter (who is now 5), but we, my wife especially flung ourselves into parenting. I always maintained the view that we should consciously make time for ourselves, do getaways just by ourselves, etc - we have done a few weekend trips here and there, but she has not really been open to the idea, or even making time for ourselves in the home here. That's just one example....there's also a ton of other factors which have been compromised for us by parenting which has probably caused extra harm to our relationship....I've got to run out right now but if I get to chance to expand on it later I will.

The sad thing is right now we are coming out of the baby/toddler/pre-k stage and in my opinion it would be a great time for things to pick up between us, IMO...but if you see my other posts, we seem to be in the midst of a mid life crisis which I'm not sure we will be able to weather.

It really is an individual thing between couples I think....for some its the best thing for the marriage, for others, the worst (even if together they absolutely love their children to bits and are great parents, as we are).


----------



## tacoma

Kids are hard on a marriage.

The more you have the harder it gets
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cherry

{{{HUGS to Yin}}}

I don't know if our children are making our marriage stronger. We are at that stage of still getting up with them throughout the night, the tantrums, the financial strain, etc... So right now, there are definite strains in our marriage due to several things and the kids are a part of those strains. I love our children and they are the sweetest little angels on earth to me. That said, they have also kept me and my H together for this long. With my oldest daughter, 17 now, I didn't do things right. I didn't value stability back then, I thought of myself more than I thought of her. I regret that. I am trying so very hard to keep our family together for our children now. I do love my H, but if it weren't for our children, I would've been long gone. Will it strengthen us as a couple if we continue staying together for the sake of the children? Will we grow together for the better, or resent each other? It's yet to be determined. 

Luckily, when it comes to our children, we seldom waver on right/wrong. Our parenting ways are fairly equal in that regards. I am thankful for that. Gawd knows, we do not need another thing to argue about 

In a nutshell, only time will tell if they will make our marriage better or worse.


----------



## that_girl

I don't know my husband without kids LOL

We got pregnant within 2 months of dating and then moved in together and got married 1.5 years later. I already had a daughter who was 8.

I don't think they are hard on a marriage  You just have to make priorities. I am not up my kids' asses all day. I devote time to the house, me, my husband...my kids do what they do and we hang out, but life is not all about the kids in this house.

We have a good balance with kids and our alone time. We spend every evening together after the kids go to bed.

I love my girls  Sometimes I wished we would have traveled more, but that time will come.


----------



## omega

I'm fascinated by this topic. The primary reason that I don't want children is that I don't want our marriage relationship to change (people can say it will be better or worse but no one will honestly say it won't be affected). I love reading others opinions on this topic. Some of them, I have to say, make me grateful for that we're childless.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

DoYouWoo said:


> I ask because I got talking to come guy friends recently about this (after a couple of drinks - our macho-guards were down!) and opinions varied wildly. For myself, having our 2 boys definitely brought us closer together - sure we snapped at each other a bit when we were tired after a tough night, and our sex life suffered in the short term more due to lack of energy/opportunity than desire - but having a common 'job' of being a parent made us feel more like a team. That contrasts with some of my friends who, although they adore their kids, see them as this massive obstacle to being closer to their wives, almost seeing the kids as competitors for their wife's attention, and it creates friction in their relationship. Just wondering what your experiences are?


I wouldn't trade my big family (we have 6 ) for anything in this world - I wanted those darn kids so bad. I would not feel complete if I was not a MOM, in addition to being a wife. We were never the partying type , more Country Homebuddies. It was a huge dream of mine to have a nice size family -before we ever married, he knew that going in. He was "with me". I was an "only child" & I wanted to experience that BIG FAMILY thing, I envied others who had that. I wanted us to be like the "Waltons" or something ! ha ha 

Although I did put my kids before him for a time in our marriage , my reasons are different than the norm -it was never about me being too tired ...it was Stress over not being able to conceive for a time- then overwhelming thankfulness beyond the norm when my womb was opened & 2, 3, 4, 5, & 6 came within 9 yrs. Even then I had the time for my husband, but I was just too focused on them. He needed just a little bit more from me. And I wasn't getting it, it could have so easily been given. 

I was NEVER too tired for anything, I was a happy stay at home mom & had leisure every day -even with all of my kids. I was just stupid back then. My time management was excellent, my priorities were not ....then. 

Love the kids, Love the family, and Dad is not suffering on the back burner at all...NOW . (and we still have 1 in pre-school , 2 in elementary, 2 in High school, the oldest is in college now). 

So long as you have a door on your bedroom and know how to not baby your children, allowing them to run your life, manage your time well. Kids should not be a hinderance to any marraige. Mine are all pretty good though, very few problems, good grades, good friends, decent attitudes. This helps!


----------



## chattycathy

They are the best in the world (I have three, two now grown) BUT they will make you too busy for time alone together and romance to the level that you need for a passionate connection.
My H found another woman to date to take my place while I was busy raising our kids. 
By the way, I thought we still did have enough romance and passion but alas, he had toooooo much extra time on his hands since the majority parenting often falls on the woman. 
Kids are worth it anyway.


----------



## that_girl

chattycathy said:


> They are the best in the world (I have three, two now grown) BUT they will make you too busy for time alone together and romance to the level that you need for a passionate connection.
> My H found another woman to date to take my place while I was busy raising our kids.
> By the way, I thought we still did have enough romance and passion but alas, he had toooooo much extra time on his hands since the majority parenting often falls on the woman.
> Kids are worth it anyway.


I am sorry to hear that.  That's a cheap excuse on his part.


----------



## DoYouWoo

Wow I'm glad this struck a chord with so many of you, and some opinions from those who feel kids have badly affected their marriage mirror what my guy friends said. In terms of not getting to spend time together, I DO miss just doing things on the fly, y'know, waking up on a Saturday morning, having a lie-in, foolin' around, then deciding what to do with our day at our leisure - compared with now where it's BAM MORNING TIME - Do stuff - Organise Little People - Work thru To-Do List, etc! 

I miss getting to relax with my wife, and having to come to terms with 'Scheduled Couple Fun Time' (if it ain't scheduled, it ain't happenin...). But I can't say I miss all that so much that I regret having the kids, as much as they mess with my head at times they are still awesome. 

I totally agree that it's a personal decision about having kids though - I think no less of couples who have decided to not have kids, I think thats better than people who don't like kids having them cos they think they should.


----------



## Cherry

DoYouWoo said:


> I think no less of couples who have decided to not have kids, I think thats better than people who don't like kids having them cos they think they should.


:iagree:


----------



## that_girl

My husband still lay around on sunday morning and get busy while the kids watch a movie  LOL


----------



## I'mAllIn

Wow, so much better for sure. H and I met in Sept and I knew within about a month of meeting him that he was "the one", but I was a little wild, and in the back of my mind sometimes wondered if I was kidding myself in thinking I could be a good and faithful W. We got engaged in Jan and planned a late July wedding. In June I found out I was 5 weeks pregnant. His family are fundamentalist Christian (he left the faith before we met), so this would really be a disappointment to them, but we both knew we wanted children eventually so there was really no way we could live with the choice to not have this baby just because of bad timing. 
Anyway, we got married in July, oldest was born the day after my H bday in Jan. We were flat broke, newly married, and never happier. He was a wonderful husband and father, and any question I had about my ability to be good W or mother went right out of my head because I was so content and happy that they were all I thought about. It didn't bother us a bit that we were broke. We'd sit on the couch and see who could make her laugh the most, and then go to bed and talk about how lucky we were. Our sex life really didn't suffer, a slight drop in frequency was easily made up for in the fact that we were so happy and so close emotionally that the sex we did have was better than ever. 
Fast forward three years. H has worked really hard and gotten promoted several times, I have a good job with good hours, money isn't quite as tight, we've bought our first house, firstborn is walking and potty trained and we're good. However, I have no health insurance due to change in job, and of course that's when birthcontrol fails and I get pregnant with youngest. Once again timing is bad, everything else is right, so we wade right in and have #2. Son is born in Jan, H is over-the-moon happy. We now have boy, girl, mom & dad, everything is perfect...right. Except that I get post partum depression, which 18 years ago no one talked about so I just thought I was a bad person who didn't trust herself to go out alone with her kids. H sees that something is really wrong and pushes me to get help. His value in my mind goes through the roof as within a few weeks I feel so much better and can relax and enjoy my family again. I could have lost months or even years of bonding with my son if H hadn't supported and helped me and I've never forgotten that.
So the years pass, the kids grow up, and they've only brought us closer. There were days when we were so mad at each other that one or the other wanted to just walk out, but you can't because you have kids and they need picked up and fed and bathed and then pretty soon one of them does something so hilarious that you can't help but laugh, and once you're both laughing it's harder to remember what you were so mad about. There have been times over the years when our sex life suffered a little because of schedules and exhaustion etc. On the other hand there have been times when I haven't been in the mood at all and then I'd catch H teaching the kids how to change a tire, or see tears in his eyes when our daughter cried over a broken heart, and at that moment he is the sexiest man on earth. Good Dad got him a lot of sex over the years. 
Now oldest is out of the house and youngest is a Sr. We're alone at home more, which has been very good for our sex life, and our emotional connection is so much stronger having watched each other be good parents to our kids. 
I know it isn't the case for every couple, but for us having children, and honestly having them early in our marriage, was one of the best things for our marriage. It did change our relationship over the years, but only for the better.


----------



## DoYouWoo

I'mAllIn said:


> Good Dad got him a lot of sex over the years.


:lol:


----------



## annagarret

I think kids make a marriage stronger if you let it. We have 4 and it is truly a blessing. Yes, they do wear on your marriage too. They can drain you so you don't have any energy to put into the marriage. You have to ALWAYS put your spouse first over the children. Without a strong marriage the family will fall apart. It's all about sacrificing for the better good.


----------



## Lydia

For us, and we have a 3 yr old daughter, it has made our marriage closer in some ways and worse in other ways. However, I'm not sure if the 'worse' is due to having kids, or due to my H thinking he doesn't have to help out around the house (as I am constantly running around doing crap for our daughter and the house, and he's 85% of the time on the computer, or watching a movie and saying he's tired from work - though I work more hours than him!).

I will admit, I do miss being able to do whatever I want whenever I want to do it - BUT I know that if I had all of that back, I'd still come back to my daughter because I absolutely couldn't live without her!

I think for some couples a child/children can make it bad.... You have to have a strong marriage for it to all come together and work harmoniously.


----------



## FirstYearDown

omega said:


> I'm fascinated by this topic. The primary reason that I don't want children is that I don't want our marriage relationship to change (people can say it will be better or worse but no one will honestly say it won't be affected). I love reading others opinions on this topic. Some of them, I have to say, make me grateful for that we're childless.


:iagree::iagree::iagree: Me too, CF sister. :smthumbup:

My best friend has recently become a mother. This weekend was my bestie's first weekend away from her daughter, back in the city. 

She keeps exclaiming: "I'm free!! No baby bag! No diapers! No crying! I'm FREE!!!" :rofl:

We get to be free _all the time._ Great isn't it, Omega?


----------



## annagarret

Lydia said:


> For us, and we have a 3 yr old daughter, it has made our marriage closer in some ways and worse in other ways. However, I'm not sure if the 'worse' is due to having kids, or due to my H thinking he doesn't have to help out around the house (as I am constantly running around doing crap for our daughter and the house, and he's 85% of the time on the computer, or watching a movie and saying he's tired from work - though I work more hours than him!).
> 
> I will admit, I do miss being able to do whatever I want whenever I want to do it - BUT I know that if I had all of that back, I'd still come back to my daughter because I absolutely couldn't live without her!
> 
> I think for some couples a child/children can make it bad.... You have to have a strong marriage for it to all come together and work harmoniously.


Don't be to hard on your husband relaxing from work on the computer or with the TV. I just finished reading "Venus on Fire, mars on ice," by Dr.Gray and he says men need that at the end of the day to rebuild testosterone to go back out and work and we get oxytocin by running around keeping the house and home together. It all makes sense now. Our husbands don't do it to drive us crazy!!!!


----------



## FirstYearDown

Dr.Gray is nothing but a pop psychologist, who relies on sweeping generalizations about men and women. Did you know that he once said women do not make sense when they are angry?:rofl:

We are from the same planet. There are many men who defy norms and stereotypes, just as some women do. I'm so tired of reading that all women need romance to enjoy sex....I can't be the only woman that doesn't require that all the time.


----------



## Threetimesalady

IMO, kids test your marriage...There are so many traumas along the way when raising them, that you fight for both your private time and sanity...Yet I can say that having them was the most wonderful experience of our lives...Some good and some bad...I would give this a strong "better"....

Where we are now at this later stage in life, plus having reconnected and awakened all the joys of each other, these are without a doubt the best years of our life...But, the kids helped us get here.....We have been blessed...Take care....


----------



## DanF

Marrying my wife made us a couple.

Having a daughter made us a family.

Losing our only daughter (she passed away about 1.5 years ago) has not changed our status as a family.

My wife and I are a family and always will be.


----------



## pidge70

When we got together in our early 20's I already had 2 girls ages 5 and 1. After we were together 5yrs I had our daughter. He had stated wistfully on occasion how he wanted someone to call him daddy. Two and a half years ago at age 39, I gave birth to our son. He was a BIG surprise! Yes the kids wear us out, they are now 22, 18, 11 and 2 and a half. I can't imagine our lives without them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

pidge70 said:


> When we got together in our early 20's I already had 2 girls ages 5 and 1. After we were together 5yrs I had our daughter. He had stated wistfully on occasion how he wanted someone to call him daddy. Two and a half years ago at age 39, I gave birth to our son. He was a BIG surprise! Yes the kids wear us out, they are now 22, 18, 11 and 2 and a half. I can't imagine our lives without them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mine are 19, 16, 3 and 1. Must not be that bad - I started all over again! My husband's are 30 and 26 plus our two little ones.
Our kids bond us. It is trying at times but rewarding. But if you think you love your spouse, you aren't prepared for the love you have for a child.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## omega

golfergirl said:


> But if you think you love your spouse, you aren't prepared for the love you have for a child.


I've heard this many times, but I don't think I believe it. I start crying just looking at my husband because I love him so much. I don't even want to love someone more than him, because it would mean I don't love him as much as I think I do (don't know if that makes sense to anyone but me). Anyway, this is off-topic, sorry.


----------



## omega

DanF said:


> Marrying my wife made us a couple.
> 
> Having a daughter made us a family.
> 
> Losing our only daughter (she passed away about 1.5 years ago) has not changed our status as a family.
> 
> My wife and I are a family and always will be.


I'm very sorry for the loss of your daughter. 

I have a very strong sense of family with my husband. We often refer to our family of two, and discuss doing things "together as a family" and so on. We felt that we were a couple before we were married, and marriage made us a family. I think it just shows how these things can vary from one family to another.

Interestingly, the death of my sister seems to have brought my parents closer together, despite what happens in many cases.


----------



## DanF

omega said:


> I'm very sorry for the loss of your daughter.
> 
> Interestingly, the death of my sister seems to have brought my parents closer together, despite what happens in many cases.


Thanks.

I have seen many couples divorce after the loss of a child.
That was not an option for us. I told my wife, "We've lost our girl. If I lose you, too, I will have nothing to live for."


----------



## FirstYearDown

My parents had a baby which died after ten days. A psychologist recommended that they have another child and my father desperately wanted a girl. Two years after the little boy died, baby FirstYearDown was born. My mother told me that I saved them.

Of course, I am not saying that you and your wife need to have another child, in order to heal grief. Just offering a different perspective and happy story.


----------



## omega

FYD, that's a touching story. I'm sure your arrival made your parents very happy!!


----------



## FirstYearDown

omega said:


> I've heard this many times, but I don't think I believe it. I start crying just looking at my husband because I love him so much. I don't even want to love someone more than him, because it would mean I don't love him as much as I think I do (don't know if that makes sense to anyone but me). Anyway, this is off-topic, sorry.


There are other types of love, that are just as fulfilling as parenting. Some people only want to share love with their spouses; mothers often forget their husbands when a baby comes. 
Omega and I only want to love our husbands and ourselves.


----------



## omega

FirstYearDown said:


> Omega and I only want to love our husbands and ourselves.


I can understand why that might seem odd to others but that's really how it is. Although I wouldn't mind getting a dog someday.


----------



## DanF

We're completely fine with no kids now. We're too old to do it again and we have all this space and time to devote to each other.
One unhappy result is no grandkids, but our daughter was handicapped and would never have children, so it didn't really change that.
We do have nieces, nephews, grandnieces and grandnephews to spoil and love, so we're thankful for that.


----------



## ForlornHubby

I'm currently separated from my 15-year long wife (+7 years dating) after she had an EA (which has allegedly stopped). She fell into that because she didn't feel loved and because she resented me being a crap dad (as in being aloof). I had, indeed, been a pretty miserable dad to our 2 daughters because I had progressively become bitter to seeing all the affection of my wife going to our daughters.
While it's clear that our break-up is not attributable to having kids and we clearly have issues outside parenthood, the stress that goes into raising kids WILL accelerate any cracks your marriage may already have.


I love my daughters (and am in the progress of mending my attitude towards them) and I love my wife (though we're not currently together). Maybe our marriage will survive, maybe not.  In any case, I'm sad to say that my kids were a catalyst to the breakdown of my marriage.


----------



## NoIssues

Both 

Better 

1. sense of team work 
2. lots of family QT and closeness
3. living a deeply satisfying life 
4. work harder ro make it work since children also effected by failure
5. excellent way to make friends with other parents, coahces, teachers, neigbors
6. many others I have not thought of quickly 

Worse

1. Less time for alone time 
2. Can be tiresome
3. Less freedom to get our freak on and be spontaneous
4. Financially more straining 
5. Sitter issues
6. Occassionally another source for disagreement

I would do it all over again, so on balancem its a winner


----------



## FirstYearDown

DanF said:


> We're completely fine with no kids now. We're too old to do it again and *we have all this space and time to devote to each other.*
> One unhappy result is no grandkids, but our daughter was handicapped and would never have children, so it didn't really change that.
> *We do have nieces, nephews, grandnieces and grandnephews to spoil and love, so we're thankful for that*.


:iagree::iagree:

Good for you, DanF. That is exactly how we feel; our four nieces are enough for us!

There's a misconception that childfree women are all bitter childhaters. I love children and I have always been great with them. When we visited my in laws, a little boy climbed into my lap and lay his head on my shoulder. :smthumbup: It was a lovely moment. 

My avatar is my third niece. Cute huh?


----------



## DoYouWoo

As I said before, I have a real respect for people who choose to not have kids, and most of them I've met aren't bitter child-haters, they just thought about the kind of life they wanted, things they wanted to do, etc and decided that kids didn't fit into that. The ones I know are cool with my kids AND have more disposable income to buy them nice gifts!


----------



## FirstYearDown

DYW, I don't know why you think I was referring to you.


----------



## Runs like Dog

I found it better. My wife and I have little in common and don't generally agree or get along. Children fill our lives which would otherwise be boring and intolerable. Now that we're empty nesters it will most like come crashing down.


----------



## stupad

My kids made it better. My wife made it worse.

Just feeling cynical today.


----------



## nice777guy

Skipped a lot of responses...so sorry if its been said.

I've always heard that kids AMPLIFY the marriage.

The good gets better and the bad gets worse. Kind of liking having that knob that now goes to "11"!

In the end - looking forwards to a divorce - I think we would be in the same place at this point with or without the kids.


----------



## DoYouWoo

nice777guy said:


> I've always heard that kids AMPLIFY the marriage.
> 
> The good gets better and the bad gets worse.


That's an interesting point actually, I've never thought of it that way, but it makes a lot of sense - maybe if there are already too many problems in the marriage before kids, it just means more things get amplified once the cluster-bomb that is Kids goes off in the middle of the marriage.


----------



## I'mAllIn

nice777guy said:


> Skipped a lot of responses...so sorry if its been said.
> 
> I've always heard that kids AMPLIFY the marriage.
> 
> The good gets better and the bad gets worse. Kind of liking having that knob that now goes to "11"!
> 
> In the end - looking forwards to a divorce - I think we would be in the same place at this point with or without the kids.


I've heard that said before also, and I sure think that's right. If a couple is close and communication is good then kids can really add to the closeness and feeling of family. If a couple is distant and don't communicate then kids will just magnify that.
Really though, that doesn't just go for having children. If a marriage is bad then anything from financial struggles or health problems or even infertility will at some point be too much for the couple to get through, while a good marriage can usually weather pretty much anything that comes along.


----------



## chillymorn

no better and not worse just different.

its all in how you handle it you can have the I'm always tired and stressed aproach or you can have the were all healthy and we can get passed anything aproach.

keep a positive attitude and be a team and all will be good.


----------



## Pandakiss

for us personally, it would be strange if we didnt have kids..we lived together of a year and 7 months, then we came home from the hospital with a little baby. we cant really remember a time with out kids.

we just had our 11 year wedding anniversary, and our 20th year anniversary..[maybe 21...i cant rem].

having multiples usually tears apart a marriage, just like jon & kate. we are determined to make it through. it is hard with kids, but then they start school, and ahh..quiet time.

our house went from the quietest place to "malcom in the middle" over nite. including "lois" yelling at kids all the time. its messy, and prob smells weird, and music, a tv and kids screaming...ahh home. [im not there right now...]

i try and remember, the kids will be ok, they dont need me to be all up in their mix all the time. my husband is the one who wears me out most of the time.

he has been my job since we moved in together 16 years ago. kids will love you no matter what, spouses can go either way. i try to make time for us, and our kids are old enough to stay home, so i leave them a lot and get coffee, or browse comic books, or go to best buy all with husband, car or no car.

i think without them, a least in our case, we would be bored...our kids bring drama, and loudness and cute chatter, they draw funny pictures of us, and squeal with delight when we look appaled and crunch up the papers.


----------



## SadSamIAm

We just got to a point where we felt there must be more to life. We were going to work, coming home, watching TV, exercising, etc. Just got the feeling that there must be more to life than that. We went on a few holidays that were great, but you can't be on holidays all the time.

After being married for 5 years, we were ready to have kids. They give us purpose. Something more in common. We spend many hours taking them to sports, school, etc. We spend many dollars paying for all they do.

We often talk about what we will do when they are gone with all the time we will have and all the money we will have. Our oldest is in university and the youngest is in Grade 10. It won't be many years, and they will be on their own. We are looking forward to this time as well. 

Can't wait for grandchildren. 

Kids are a gift. I would never have believed how fulfilling they can make your life before we had them.

I have a rewarding career. I help a lot of people with the services I provide through work. We contribute to our community in a number of ways. But having children makes me feel like I am contributing to the world. Having children is the most rewarding thing I have ever done.


----------



## Shaggy

Totally changed everything, but mostly they took the wife I had away and replaced her with their mom. I miss her sometimes, like no more weekends away just being together, no more sleeping in, or just goofing off together. Now it's schedules, home work, school projects, breaking up fights between the kids. Love the kids, but I miss having my wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ladybird

I think that having children can be hard on marriage.. 

My husband and I were married 11 years before I got pregnant with our first. Having him so late in our marriage has been hard. It was only the 2 of us for 11 years.
But neither one of us would ever trade our son in for anything.. He is truly a miracle baby.


----------



## worrieddad

nice777guy said:


> Skipped a lot of responses...so sorry if its been said.
> 
> I've always heard that kids AMPLIFY the marriage.
> 
> The good gets better and the bad gets worse. Kind of liking having that knob that now goes to "11"!


I like that analogy as well....I think it does - even things that were never an issue before, the amplifier picks them up.


----------



## worrieddad

Shaggy said:


> Totally changed everything, but mostly they took the wife I had away and replaced her with their mom. I miss her sometimes, like no more weekends away just being together, no more sleeping in, or just goofing off together. Now it's schedules, home work, school projects, breaking up fights between the kids. Love the kids, but I miss having my wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is what exactly happened with us....and now our daughter is 5 and it would be a good time for the mom (and dad too I guess, if I'm totally honest) to get back to that husband/wife relationship...she has instead decided she wants to break up, and at this point I've made peace with the fact I've got no choice but to go along for the ride.


----------



## FirstYearDown

I love being a *wife*, so I wouldn't want a child to change my happy marriage. We like focusing our energy only on each other, without babies altering our sex life or all our free time. Too many husbands complain that their wives only care about the baby. I don't want to become a person with a one dimensional personality. 

Since I am not a parent, I cannot comprehend how children are a "gift." My mother had four and she was the most unhappy, overworked woman on the planet. She felt chained in her marriage and resented us because we "held her back". There were also a lot of loud complaints about how expensive we were.

I just wrote her a letter, explaining that her clear unhappiness with motherhood made having kids seem awful. Poor lady doesn't understand why we refuse to give her grandchildren. She didn't seem fulfilled; Mom was so trapped and angry. Why on earth would I want that for myself? How can a parent pressure their children to reproduce, yet denounce all the sacrifices in the same breath? It seems like misery loves company and I suspect that most (_not all_) parents are secretly jealous of those that are not tied down with kids. I love sleeping in, weekend getaways at a moment's notice and sex all over our place. :smthumbup:


----------



## worrieddad

FirstYearDown - hats off to you, you are doing it right. Don't let anyone dictate to you that you should have kids, nomatter what (no-one did to us BTW, asides from the usual background chatter that every couple gets - we were ready for one).

However I will say that even though it looks like my marriage is about to go down the tubes (or at best case scenario, we are going to be taking a period of separation to see how that impacts us and our daughter) - if I had to do it again, I will say that the love I feel for my daughter is unlike anything else and I'd never ever wish that she wasn't here. Now she's 5 it is totally different to the early years - she is awesome.

On the other hand if we had never had her, I doubt I'd be unhappy either - but life would be a vastly different set of circumstances so direct comparison can't really be given. Whatever the situation, just be yourself - its all you can be.


----------



## heartsbeating

omega said:


> I'm fascinated by this topic. The primary reason that I don't want children is that I don't want our marriage relationship to change (people can say it will be better or worse but no one will honestly say it won't be affected). I love reading others opinions on this topic. Some of them, I have to say, make me grateful for that we're childless.


I'm intrigued by the answers too.

We don't really plan on having children but I know he's more open to the idea than me. Most of my friends now have little ones or planning to, and it's just not really something that I think about. I find myself talking about plans for us to have a business together in a few years or doing more travel. Of course, one can do these things with a family, but my mind just doesn't seem to go the baby-route like my friends. 

But the other day at work, a female coworker thought I looked 29, another chimed in and said she thought I looked the same age as her, which is 27. I thanked them, laughed and said, "No, I'm 33..." I relayed this story to hubs when I got home and he reminded me "Sweetheart, you're actually nearly 35." I don't know what happened whereby I forgot my age but it seemed to throw my mind into a tizzy and I felt the pressure of deciding whether to start a family or not. It's really been on my mind in a big way since then.


----------



## omega

heartsbeating said:


> I'm intrigued by the answers too.
> 
> We don't really plan on having children but I know he's more open to the idea than me. Most of my friends now have little ones or planning to, and it's just not really something that I think about. I find myself talking about plans for us to have a business together in a few years or doing more travel. Of course, one can do these things with a family, but my mind just doesn't seem to go the baby-route like my friends.
> 
> But the other day at work, a female coworker thought I looked 29, another chimed in and said she thought I looked the same age as her, which is 27. I thanked them, laughed and said, "No, I'm 33..." I relayed this story to hubs when I got home and he reminded me "Sweetheart, you're actually nearly 35." I don't know what happened whereby I forgot my age but it seemed to throw my mind into a tizzy and I felt the pressure of deciding whether to start a family or not. It's really been on my mind in a big way since then.


I'm waiting for that to happen to me. I'm only 30 so it could take a while but I often wonder if there is something wrong with me that I haven't wanted children yet, when my "friends list" consists of mostly pictures of babies. (I'm not friends with any babies. But most of my friends seem to think that putting a photograph of their baby is representative enough of their own identity to be the profile photo on Facebook. My profile photo is one of my husband and I holding each other. His is one of us gazing into each others eyes hehehe. That's how I identity myself on many levels anyway.)

So I do wonder sometimes if I will really NEVER want to have children, because if I do someday want them, but I'm 50, then that will suck. Being childfree wasn't some life decision that I sat down and made for myself. It's just the result of never having the whole " I want to have children" feeling/emotion. Maybe I'm just a late bloomer, you know? But then I look at my life and realize that I have zero, less than zero interest or desire to add a baby to this family. We are a complete family as a couple, and adding anyone else to it would actually take away from it. So I think that's my answer. Realizing I could get struck by lightning and change my mind and decide I want to have children after all.

I have a fantastic mother, by the way, and I had a storybook upbringing. So it's not that. I think 90% of it is just being so satisfied with the "family of two" and not wanting to screw with it. 

Incidentally, while I'm 30, I'm usually assumed to be 24. Maybe not having children keeps us looking younger?


----------



## I'mAllIn

omega said:


> Incidentally, while I'm 30, I'm usually assumed to be 24. Maybe not having children keeps us looking younger?


I think the opposite is often true once people reach upper-30s and up. I think it has to do with pre-teen and teenage kids keeping their parents energetic and fun, and I think they're usually more aware of current fashion etc. A lot of our childless friends are seriously clueless about good hairstyles or makeup, and dress like 60 year old history professors. Most teenagers will stage an intervention before it gets that bad  I'm 42, but get mistaken for 32-35 a lot. My daughter always says it's because I don't wear mom-jeans or have mom-hair, but I do hope there's more to it than that:scratchhead:


----------



## FirstYearDown

omega said:


> I'm waiting for that to happen to me. I'm only 30 so it could take a while but I often wonder if there is something wrong with me that I haven't wanted children yet, when my "friends list" consists of mostly pictures of babies. (I'm not friends with any babies. But most of my friends seem to think that putting a photograph of their baby is representative enough of their own identity to be the profile photo on Facebook. My profile photo is one of my husband and I holding each other. His is one of us gazing into each others eyes hehehe. That's how I identity myself on many levels anyway.) Nothing is wrong with us. We are just walking a different path to happiness. My profile photo is my husband and I kissing on our wedding day! :smthumbup:
> 
> So I do wonder sometimes if I will really NEVER want to have children, because if I do someday want them, but I'm 50, then that will suck. Being childfree wasn't some life decision that I sat down and made for myself. It's just the result of never having the whole " I want to have children" feeling/emotion. Maybe I'm just a late bloomer, you know? But then I look at my life and realize that I have zero, less than zero interest or desire to add a baby to this family. We are a complete family as a couple, and adding anyone else to it would actually take away from it. So I think that's my answer. Realizing I could get struck by lightning and change my mind and decide I want to have children after all.I made the childfree decision long ago, deep in my heart. I totally understand what you mean when you say that adding a child would take away from being a couple.
> 
> I have a fantastic mother, by the way, and I had a storybook upbringing. So it's not that. I think 90% of it is just being so satisfied with the "family of two" and not wanting to screw with it. I have a crazy abusive mother and it certainly was that for me! :rofl: I'm fine with this though.
> 
> Incidentally, while I'm 30, I'm usually assumed to be 24. Maybe not having children keeps us looking younger? Anyone who doesn't have sleepless nights and constant worries will look younger! A woman once told me, "Kids make a woman look old!"


----------



## omega

I'mAllIn said:


> I think the opposite is often true once people reach upper-30s and up. I think it has to do with pre-teen and teenage kids keeping their parents energetic and fun, and I think they're usually more aware of current fashion etc. A lot of our childless friends are seriously clueless about good hairstyles or makeup, and dress like 60 year old history professors. Most teenagers will stage an intervention before it gets that bad  I'm 42, but get mistaken for 32-35 a lot. My daughter always says it's because I don't wear mom-jeans or have mom-hair, but I do hope there's more to it than that:scratchhead:


I'm sure it goes both ways and depends on the individual too, whether they're interested in fashion and make an effort to stay informed. Double-income families without children may have significantly more money to spend on clothing and selfcare, and more time to go to the gym and stay active. Not a rule, but it applies to many. For me, I think my stomach is pretty glad that I haven't had kids  I spent much of my late 20s practically living in the gym, and I couldn't have done that if I had children at home.


----------



## omega

@FirstYearDown, I do think we get lines and wrinkles later. I haven't done a study or anything, but among my childless friends as compared to my childed friends, the parents have fine lines already (ages 30-35). Even the smokers have fewer lines than the parents. Not that that matters of course. I certainly don't think that fine lines is a bad thing. But it might play a role in people thinking that I'm younger than I am. 

Also, I work with teenagers and young adults, so I get plenty of exposure to the way they're doing their hair and wearing their clothes, pretty much all of which looks silly to me.


----------



## FirstYearDown

I'mAllIn, Omega and I are childfree, not *less*. Two different words and meanings. 

People do not need teenage children to learn about fashion. Dressing young is not the same as dressing well. I knew a woman that was determined to change my style; she was into tattoos, piercings and showing a lot of skin. I simply told her that clothing sends a message and people who dress like her have a hard time earning respect. 

Omega, I have been blessed with good genes when it comes to aging well. Neither of my parents have wrinkles; the only thing that gives away their age is their hair. I still get carded, despite being six months shy of 30.


----------



## Enchantment

annagarret said:


> Don't be to hard on your husband relaxing from work on the computer or with the TV. I just finished reading "Venus on Fire, mars on ice," by Dr.Gray and he says men need that at the end of the day to rebuild testosterone to go back out and work and we get oxytocin by running around keeping the house and home together. It all makes sense now. Our husbands don't do it to drive us crazy!!!!


I would be hard on him, especially if both parents are also working full-time outside the home, and I'd still be hard on him even if the wife was a
SAHM. 

Why? Because a certain amount of relaxation time is needed by BOTH parents, but a man spending 85% of his time immersed in TV and the computer while he is home is not relaxing, it is escaping responsibility. No free ride from me, I guess. I'd be slapping that baby or toddler in his lap after about a half hour of him 'relaxing', and tell him I was going out for a 'relaxing' walk. 

Our kids have been both a burden and a blessing, just like I expected they would be. I would not change one thing, however. They are simply wonderful, even though it may take me a while to remember that after they've been naughty. 

Kids can either hurt or help your marriage depending on how you and your spouse view kids, responsibilities, life, and your marriage. Husband and wife putting each other first is still the primary priority, though, because without a strong marriage and a happy mom and dad, you aren't going to have a strong, happy family life. As such, our kids have only strengthened out marriage.

The following quote comes to mind, whether it's marriage or kids:

_“Nothing ever comes to one, that is worth having, except as a result of hard work.” ~ Booker T. Washington _


----------



## heartsbeating

With regards to appearance with/without kids because I seem to have instigated this, although that wasn't my intention, I have a couple of things I'd like to express:

1. There's absolutely nothing wrong with actually looking the age we are. I did giggle and tell hubs my coworkers thought I looked younger, but I do know there's absolutely nothing wrong with looking 35 - because I AM 35 (nearly). My point was more about my tizzy and feeling that bodily pressure with regards to age. The inclination to raise a family hasn't really hit me though. I'm also fine with that.

2. I drink a hideous amount of green tea and get a good night's sleep most nights.

3. I have friends with babies who also could pass for younger. Sometimes it depends on lifestyle, genetics, outlook on life. Exuberance can shine through. This isn't just about fine lines. 

4. As for figure, I have friends with babies who's bodies look just as amazing (if not moreso) than before giving birth. Again, partly genetics and also they ensure they work out - whether that be riding a bike to work or getting up early for stretching. I have friends without babies who aren't as fit and toned as some of the mothers. Carrying a baby is a good arm weight!

I don't think there can be generalizations about whether one looks younger or fitter or more stylish with or without children. Just sayin.


----------



## FirstYearDown

The only reason I would ever become a mother is social acceptance. Mothers often treat childfree women with a certain condescending attitude. It's like we are still children, because we don't have any. 

I have also grown weary of the mob mentality that occurs among women, when another female admits her childfreedom. It is the reason I do not like to attend baby showers and why I now just say that we can't have children. The latter sentence will be true come January 13th, but who is counting? :rofl:

Nobody should ever have a child just to fit in.


----------



## YinPrincess

I agree. Having planned to be childless for the rest of my life, becoming pregnant by 'accident' (we were using more than one birth control method), has been an emotionally devestating feeling. This has exacerbated the problems between my husband and I. As sad as it sounds, I probably would have chosen another option had the familial pressure to keep our 'miracle' not been so overwhelming. There are many regrets I am trying not to feel, even though my baby isn't even here yet. I feel a tremendous sense of guilt and hurt that I'm not the kind of woman who always knew they wanted kids, planned for kids, is excited about kids, etc. I'm getting used to the idea, but I feel so bad for not being excited as I should be. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

FirstYearDown said:


> The only reason I would ever become a mother is social acceptance. Mothers often treat childfree women with a certain condescending attitude. It's like we are still children, because we don't have any.
> 
> I have also grown weary of the mob mentality that occurs among women, when another female admits her childfreedom. It is the reason I do not like to attend baby showers and why I now just say that we can't have children. The latter sentence will be true come January 13th, but who is counting? :rofl:
> 
> Nobody should ever have a child just to fit in.


One of my best friends never wants children. She's known this since we were 17. She has even asked her doc for a tubal ligation but he won't do it until she's 35. :scratchhead: She's an amazing, intelligent woman and we have a ton in common, despite the fact that she's not a mother and doesn't even like kids (although she likes mine and her siblings' kids). I don't judge on that. Why should I get offended about what another woman does, or doesn't do, with her uterus? lol The thought makes me laugh..


----------



## that_girl

YinPrincess said:


> I agree. Having planned to be childless for the rest of my life, becoming pregnant by 'accident' (we were using more than one birth control method), has been an emotionally devestating feeling. This has exacerbated the problems between my husband and I. As sad as it sounds, I probably would have chosen another option had the familial pressure to keep our 'miracle' not been so overwhelming. There are many regrets I am trying not to feel, even though my baby isn't even here yet. I feel a tremendous sense of guilt and hurt that I'm not the kind of woman who always knew they wanted kids, planned for kids, is excited about kids, etc. I'm getting used to the idea, but I feel so bad for not being excited as I should be.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That would be difficult and disappointing, seeing that you tried your best NOT to get pregnant. I would feel the same now, getting pregnant...Hubs had the big V over 2 years ago. We do not want more kids.


----------



## omega

YinP, most likely, once you have the baby, you'll have MAJOR assistance from the natural hormones that flood your body at that time. That is supposed to help a woman feel like they can't live without the baby and they can't imagine their lives any other way and so on. 

My mom's best friend (who is like 25 years younger than my mom) did NOT want to have children ever, and didn't like children. Her husband pressured her into having one. She hated being pregnant, felt awful about the whole idea. Once the baby was born, she bonded really well with the child and ADORED her almost immediately, and all was well between mother and daughter. About 2 years later, the husband pressured her into having a second. When that one was 6 weeks old, the husband left her for another woman saying "I've been unhappy for 8 years" (the length of their marriage). Now she's the single mother of 2 very young children, and her husband is with another woman who was actually a VERY close friend of his wife. That second part about the husband leaving isn't really relevant but it's classic TAM-style. 

But my mom always says how amazing it is how close her friend is with her daughter because she really didn't want her and now she has her and they are inseparable emotionally. All thanks to the amazing mystery of human biology


----------



## ForlornHubby

Shaggy said:


> Totally changed everything, but mostly they took the wife I had away and replaced her with their mom. I miss her sometimes, like no more weekends away just being together, no more sleeping in, or just goofing off together. Now it's schedules, home work, school projects, breaking up fights between the kids. Love the kids, but I miss having my wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I absolutely concur with this. Though my wife and I are separated not directly because of the kids but because she had an EA, the fact of the matter is I believe she got disillusioned with marriage because of the constant struggles that came with having kids.

I love my two daughters and I love my wife, but there's tons of resentment between us. From my part because with the little ones she retreated into just being a mum and from her part I retreated into being a grumpy reluctant father.


----------



## omega

FirstYearDown said:


> I have also grown weary of the mob mentality that occurs among women, when another female admits her childfreedom. It is the reason I do not like to attend baby showers and why I now just say that we can't have children.


Not sure if others will "believe" that this happens, but I can back you up on this. I'm on Facebook, and a good 1/3 of my friends have baby photos as their profile photo. Those are the ones you have to watch out for. They can be very overwhelming with their opinions. Just the other day did the very mild act of "liking" a baby picture on Facebook and several minutes later got an email from the mother of the baby asking me when I was going to have a baby "finally" because "you're so smart and you would be such a great mother." Seriously? So this does go on. It's not just childfree folks exaggerating.


----------



## YinPrincess

I'm counting on those hormones. The more ultrasounds I get the more terrified and intrigued I become. I just don't want to be a resentful mother, I am already feeling resentful and trapped by the pregnancy.  

Everyone keeps saying this is a wonderful experience to have, but all I've experienced thus far is a lot of mental agony and frustration as the months go on. We'll be down to one income, we HAVE to find a bigger house, (biggest urgency of all), all of the life changes that go with including a kiddo... To tell you the truth, I'm scared S*!#less of bringing a person into this world, but at the same time, excited too. Go figure. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DadAgain

My kids are the reward I have for getting married.


----------



## FirstYearDown

Um, wouldn't your *wife *be the reward? :scratchhead:


----------



## DadAgain

I used to think of my wife as the main reward for getting married. But I was constantly disappointed in her. She never quite lived up to my unrealistic expectations. Nor did I live up to hers.

I now believe that our spouse isn't meant to make us happy. And the only reason to get married is so we can have children.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Shaggy said:


> Totally changed everything, but mostly they took the wife I had away and replaced her with their mom. I miss her sometimes, like no more weekends away just being together, no more sleeping in, or just goofing off together. Now it's schedules, home work, school projects, breaking up fights between the kids. Love the kids, but I miss having my wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This happened to me as well until I figured things out. It was easy to date my wife when it was just us. we could go out, have fun, do things. Marriage did not change anything for us.

Kids did. She focused on being a mom (which made sense on one level because she was a SAHM). But we both let things slip until that was her only job at times. I let it slide and occasionly whined about it, but did not really change anything. It took me really shaking things up by aggressively dating her, forcing her to take time with me, and leaving the kids behind at times to get us back on track. 

Someone else said it best - it is a question of priorities. Before kids, our marriage was number one. After kids, we wrongly let our marriage move out of the top spot and replaced it with the kids. Now that marriage has moved back up to share the number one slot with our children. With that fixed, our kids have enhanced our marriage. For me, kids have made the marriage better, now that I know how to properly incorporate them.


----------



## omega

DadAgain said:


> And the only reason to get married is so we can have children.


This made me so sad. I don't think I've read anything so sad in a long time. I hope you do get some pleasure out of your marriage beyond people who aren't even part of it.


----------



## that_girl

YinPrincess said:


> I'm counting on those hormones. The more ultrasounds I get the more terrified and intrigued I become. I just don't want to be a resentful mother, I am already feeling resentful and trapped by the pregnancy.
> 
> Everyone keeps saying this is a wonderful experience to have, but all I've experienced thus far is a lot of mental agony and frustration as the months go on. We'll be down to one income, we HAVE to find a bigger house, (biggest urgency of all), all of the life changes that go with including a kiddo... To tell you the truth, I'm scared S*!#less of bringing a person into this world, but at the same time, excited too. Go figure.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My sister never wanted to be a mom, but found herself pregnant because she wasn't careful and she is the BEST MOM ...she puts me to shame. lol. She's a single mom going through university. My nephew is almost 9 and just an awesome kid. She LOVES being a mom and none of us thought she would because she always said she never wanted kids.

And even with people who do want kids (like myself), it's not always an amazing experience. With my first, I had horrible issues with depression after the birth and didn't bond with my daughter at all...which sent me further into depression because I was expecting and had been waiting for this "magical" experience and it simply wasn't.


----------



## DadAgain

omega said:


> This made me so sad. I don't think I've read anything so sad in a long time. I hope you do get some pleasure out of your marriage beyond people who aren't even part of it.


I'm not explaining myself properly. I'm not saying I don't get pleasure from my wife. I certainly do. I'm saying we could get the same pleasure from each other without being married, could'nt we? If it were just about us loving each other and making each other happy, why do we need a piece of paper for that?

There is a difference between a loving committed relationship, and a marriage. You can be married without having kids, but what for other than selfish reasons? Financial security, convenience, legal protection. If you get married for selfish reasons, then the marriage is doomed from the start. Marriage is about self-sacrifice. Sacrificing your options to be with other people. Sacrificing your freedom to leave when you want. Kids need that sacrifice.


----------



## omega

I understand what you're saying, but I think there is another reason to get married that isn't about financial security and convenience (or having children). I think being married is a very strong emotional commitment and "way of life" if I can use that term that - if you see it that way - isn't the same as being in a committed relationship. I do see your point but I've often found myself trying to explain to people who say "why get married if you're not going to have kids?" Trying to explain the emotional "meaning" of marriage to someone who doesn't perceive of marriage as a special 'way of life' in its own right is not easy. Interestingly, I don't feel that I've made either sacrifices OR compromises by getting married (and I don't consider it "work" either). 

It's very hard to explain. But I think it goes to show that marriage (beyond the actual legalities) "means" different things to different people. To me marriage is more of an act of love than anything else.


----------



## DadAgain

omega said:


> I understand what you're saying, but I think there is another reason to get married that isn't about financial security and convenience (or having children). I think being married is a very strong emotional commitment and "way of life" if I can use that term that - if you see it that way - isn't the same as being in a committed relationship. I do see your point but I've often found myself trying to explain to people who say "why get married if you're not going to have kids?" Trying to explain the emotional "meaning" of marriage to someone who doesn't perceive of marriage as a special 'way of life' in its own right is not easy. Interestingly, I don't feel that I've made either sacrifices OR compromises by getting married (and I don't consider it "work" either).
> 
> It's very hard to explain. But I think it goes to show that marriage (beyond the actual legalities) "means" different things to different people. To me marriage is more of an act of love than anything else.


Good points. I would question your statement that you haven't made sacrifices. Then you say marriage is an act of love. An act of love IS A SACRIFICE by definition. 

We agree on it being an act of love. I'd like to better understand what this other reason is to get married.

"Emotional commitment" is a contradiction in my view. Emotions are involuntary. We don't directly control them. So how can we commit to them?

"Special way of life" is a little vague as well.

Believe me, Im' not trying to argue with you, just want to understand you better.


----------



## omega

DadAgain said:


> Good points. I would question your statement that you haven't made sacrifices. Then you say marriage is an act of love. An act of love IS A SACRIFICE by definition.
> 
> We agree on it being an act of love. I'd like to better understand what this other reason is to get married.
> 
> "Emotional commitment" is a contradiction in my view. Emotions are involuntary. We don't directly control them. So how can we commit to them?
> 
> "Special way of life" is a little vague as well.
> 
> Believe me, Im' not trying to argue with you, just want to understand you better.


You aren't the first, I have a terrible time trying to explain it. People want to know why I am married. I don't want children, and the country where we live actually PENALIZES us for being married in our taxes, and there are no legal benefits. Nothing about the way we live would be impossible if we weren't married. Many people think it's strange that we got married. I can't really explain it well, except to say that it IS emotionally/feelings based. It's a way of experiencing / living the fact that we're in love. When my now-husband and I were first discussing the concept of marriage, I told him that as far as I was concerned, having children and being married had absolutely nothing to do with each other. I still believe that. It's not about the legal "advantages" either. And you say it's a sacrifice but I insist that it isn't. I only benefited (emotionally) by getting married, I didn't lose anything by it. That's why I say it isn't a sacrifice. Isn't a sacrifice when you do something even though it hurts you in some way, for a greater good? Well in this case, there is no downside, so I feel that it can't be called a sacrifice, and there are many acts of love that wouldn't fit that category either. But maybe you define 'sacrifice' differently - that's fine, I'm just talking about it from my own understanding.


----------



## DadAgain

Omega, thanks for explaining it to me. I do understand. Your marriage makes you very happy and you have not had to sacrifice anything. There is no downside. And despite the wedding costs, tax penalty, etc, the emotional payoff you receive is well worth it. I really appreciate you sharing this with me.

Just one more question would help me a lot if you don't mind. A what-if scenario so to speak... 
What will you do if the positivity, lovliness and special emotion turns into pain, negativity, and major unhappiness... and your marriage BECOMES the sacrifice that it has never been yet? What if all the upsides turn upside down? Year after year. Will you get divorced?


----------



## omega

DadAgain said:


> Omega, thanks for explaining it to me. I do understand. Your marriage makes you very happy and you have not had to sacrifice anything. There is no downside. And despite the wedding costs, tax penalty, etc, the emotional payoff you receive is well worth it. I really appreciate you sharing this with me.
> 
> Just one more question would help me a lot if you don't mind. A what-if scenario so to speak...
> What will you do if the positivity, lovliness and special emotion turns into pain, negativity, and major unhappiness... and your marriage BECOMES the sacrifice that it has never been yet? What if all the upsides turn upside down? Year after year. Will you get divorced?


We didn't have wedding expenses as we didn't have a wedding ... we eloped  But the tax penalty is obnoxious!!

First, one of the main reasons I am on TAM in the first place is to stay aware and alert so that your scenario is less likely to happen - I believe an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure - so I am really big into armor-plating my marriage. Second, I would try MC although I know it's certainly not infallible. But ultimately if things were miserable for years... I would consider divorce I guess. I have always believed in my heart that the only reason I would divorce my husband would be if he cheated on me, and I do believe that I would if that happened, but I like to imagine that I wouldn't under other circumstances. No one can predict the future. When I joined TAM I liked to think of myself as one of those people who don't "believe in" divorce. After reading a whole bunch of awful stories on here, I find myself posting "why don't you just divorce the miserable ***" more and more. So I don't want to say I would never do it, but I entered into marriage and continue with the conviction that I would only divorce over infidelity.


----------



## FirstYearDown

DadAgain said:


> I used to think of my wife as the main reward for getting married. But I was constantly disappointed in her. She never quite lived up to my unrealistic expectations. Nor did I live up to hers.
> 
> I now believe that our spouse isn't meant to make us happy. And the only reason to get married is so we can have children.


:lol::lol::lol::lol:

What about infertile couples? Should they all just divorce?

How about people who marry past childbearing age? :scratchhead:

I think it is so funny, when people take their experiences as facts. 

Guess what? Some couples actually marry and stay together because *gasp* they cherish each other and want to share their lives. There are also couples that choose not to have children, but that probably doesn't exist in your small and ignorant world.


----------



## DoYouWoo

Wow, this thread sure took an unexpected turn! Great to hear all your insights. We have number 3 on the way in about a week, so I'm preparing myself for a couple of months of craziness!


----------



## omega

Congratulations on your #3, DoYouWoo!

This thread reminds me that several years ago, when I was engaged, I posted as my FB status update: "How did having children change your marriage?" And I got about 10 comments to the status, all positive, and about 4-5 private emails, all negative. 

It's very taboo to admit that having children might have been a mistake or that someone as innocent as a baby can be "responsible" for damaging a marriage. And yet people who have been through it are willing to "warn" others, just not "publicly." (My experience.)


----------



## FirstYearDown

omega said:


> Congratulations on your #3, DoYouWoo!
> 
> This thread reminds me that several years ago, when I was engaged, I posted as my FB status update: "How did having children change your marriage?" And I got about 10 comments to the status, all positive, and about 4-5 private emails, all negative.
> 
> It's very taboo to admit that having children might have been a mistake or that someone as innocent as a baby can be "responsible" for damaging a marriage. And yet people who have been through it are willing to "warn" others, just not "publicly." (My experience.)


:iagree::iagree: Mine too!

This is why I am glad that my mother finally admitted that she wished she never had such a big family. I was touched my her honesty, because I always felt her resentment growing up.

Hate being a mom | Secret Confessions


----------



## omega

Wow, that is quite a series of confessions! Thanks for posting that. I am actually glad to read it. It always bothered me that people repressed their feelings on this issue so unanimously. People are usually more willing to admit to homocidal fantasies than to wishing they'd never had children.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

omega said:


> Wow, that is quite a series of confessions! Thanks for posting that. I am actually glad to read it. It always bothered me that people repressed their feelings on this issue so unanimously. People are usually more willing to admit to homocidal fantasies than to wishing they'd never had children.


It is interesting. Most parents are willing to share with their friends (who are parents) the moments that they wished they did not have children, but don't like to admit it to non-parents. I suspect a lot of parents feel (rightly or wrongly) that others can't understand if they have not gone through it. I have those moments and readily admit it.

I will say I am more vocal and disappointed at how I did not properly balance my marriage with parenthood. We are much better now, but it took me far too long to "fix" that problem.


----------



## FirstYearDown

Like any life changing decision, becoming a parent can be both the best and the worst choice. I assume that the tradeoff is the joy and pride of having a child, instead of more freedom and time to be a spouse. 

The delight that my nieces give me, is like an unbearable surge of love in my heart. As an aunt, I enjoy all the wonderful things about children without being responsible for them forever.

SavvyAuntie.com - The first community for cool aunts, great aunts, godmothers and all women who love kids


----------



## Tall Average Guy

FirstYearDown said:


> Like any life changing decision, becoming a parent can be both the best and the worst choice. I assume that the tradeoff is the joy and pride of having a child, instead of more freedom and time to be a spouse.
> 
> [/url]


Its a trade off for a lot of things. Spouse is one, as are hobbies and other activities. You have to prioritize. Before kids, it was easy to focus on my spouse because once work was done, I had control over my time - most all of my activities were a choice. Once the kids came a long, I lost control of much of my time - kids, especially as babies, need care on their time table, not mine. So now, my spouse is competing for that remaining free time which is a lot less. 

Now that we have a better handle on it (and the kids are getting older), the joy of having them outweighs the time and freedom of being both a spouse and an individual. But I recognize that does not work for everyone (and can name at least one where they should not have made that tradeoff).

Ideally, we should have sat down and figured out some ways to work together to put us at least at the same level of the kids. That issue came up occasionally, but it was more words than action. Perhaps it was just that the kids were young, but I really feel I messed that up by not being more diligent in following through. Unfortunately, my flux-capacitor is in the shop, so I am stuck with the world as it currently is.


----------



## jsanders4588

Our kids are blessings for hubby and I. It helps to bind us, it keep us strong and love more each other.

I guess our marriage is boring if we have no kids.


----------



## I Know

Kids are a colossal pain in the rear. Wife wanted them more than me. But I love them more than I can describe. My boys 13 + 15, are just the funniest, brightest, sweetest, awesome kids in the world. 

My wife and I would have had a great marriage with or without them. Kids add another dimension.


----------



## anotherguy

I intitally worried about having kids. We were married for 10 years and neither of us was in a hurry to have them initially. I have also seen how many couples are ill prepared for the changes and pressures kids intoroduce into the equation and believe it or not I wasnt sure we were up to the task. I remember telling her flat out - "Im not sure we can handle it, do you?" She wasnt sure either? funny in retrospect.

Eventually we figured out the 1) You are 'never ready' completely to have kids and 2) there comes a point when we decided that it was now or never, and 3) we figured that yes, we could 'handle it'.

The first few years can be challenging, but it is, without a doubt - one of the best things we ever did. Did kids make the marriage better or worse? I will say that it has changed us and given us many more opportunities to grow together - in that respect it has without question made it better. It has also given us plenty of challenges - whic also, upon calm reflection, has made it better.

Thankfully we went into the kids decision wth open eyes and it was a very purposeful decision for us... certainly not an 'oops'.


----------



## DoYouWoo

anotherguy said:


> Thankfully we went into the kids decision wth open eyes and it was a very purposeful decision for us... certainly not an 'oops'.


I think if more couples did likewise we'd have a lot fewer dysfunctional families...


----------



## janemilda

Having kids made me a better wife. Before kids, I was controlling and demanding, and I expected perfection. After kids, I realized nothing was really in my control, and I might as well relax my stringent standards (i.e. I no longer care if Hubby leaves his socks laying on the floor).

Also, because "couple" time is much more precious now, I find that I value it more and make more of an effort to appreciate my husband. Before kids, I took him for granted because he was always available. Now, because we have kids, I have to make our time together a priority. As a result, I focus on our relationship and his happiness more, which leads to a better marriage overall.

This is not to say that kids don't bring a challenge to marriage. They do. But overall, I'd say kids made my marriage better.


----------



## I Know

I am shocked at the number of people posting who are having marital problems, but then *"somehow"* end up pregnant. How do they not make the connection that kids put stress on a relationship?

I get it. Kids are great. But there's a right time for everything.


----------



## FirstYearDown

Sometimes people have babies, as a way to keep someone with them. Women stop using birth control without their partner's knowledge all the time.


----------



## YinPrincess

FirstYearDown said:


> Sometimes people have babies, as a way to keep someone with them. Women stop using birth control without their partner's knowledge all the time.


That is so messed up. I feel bad for the men and children who are victims of such plots. It never seems to work out anyhow... Just the kids grow up in a complicated situation and become a source for manipulation and control. Awful! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

That wasn't my plot! LOL I told hubs I was ovulating and to stay away. He didn't listen and we have a beautiful daughter


----------



## Scannerguard

I think if a marriage is on the rocks. . .kids, and more of them, will accelerate it's demise.

They aren't the cause. . .but they can speed up it's decline, maybe before it can be saved.

I have experienced this and witnessed this.

I think proper family planning (code for birth control) will be studied more in the coming decade and incorporated into the formula for a successful marriage.


----------



## FirstYearDown

Scannerguard said:


> I think if a marriage is on the rocks. . .kids, and more of them, will accelerate it's demise.
> 
> They aren't the cause. . .but they can speed up it's decline, maybe before it can be saved.
> 
> I have experienced this and witnessed this.
> 
> I think proper family planning (code for birth control) will be studied more in the coming decade and incorporated into the formula for a successful marriage.


:iagree::iagree:
Although some parents stay in a de facto "marriage" because of the children or for social status.


----------



## SecondTimesTheCharm

Interesting topic and discussion!

This is something I have concerns with, as I survived first marriage without any children, thankfully, but will most likely be a first time dad at 40 or 41 years old with my second wife who is in her early 30's and whose clock is ticking LOUDLY.

I fear about how much intimacy will be lost as a result.

I fear about how much weight she will gain and whether or not I will want a second child if she doesn't first take off the weight gain from the first child.

To my wife, "life does not begin" until parenthood but I feel as if I've lived a very full life and experienced so much without yet having children. Being childless does allow one to enjoy a lot of freedom and when I hear of a married couple with children being out on a "date night" that kind of makes me cringe because, for the moment, date night for my wife and I is, in fact, whenever we want it to be and at least a couple nights a week, as opposed to one or two times a month.

With that said, however, I do think that emotionally we are prepared for parenthood, although, financially, I wish we were in a better place and that worries me, as every month seems a struggle just to pay the mortgage but we are not yet ready to throw in the towel and sell the home, although doing so would allow us a little breathing room as we could lease a similar home for significantly less...but who knows when we'd be ready to buy another home as it is not like we'd end up with enough leftover for a down payment on another home...had to refi the house to payoff the ex-wife, unfortunately.

But, lately, instead of watching movies or sitcoms, we are watching reality shows on Lifetime such as America's Supernanny and One Born Every Minute (each show features three couples in the delivery ward of a hospital and tells their story). So, it seems like we are on a collision course and I just pray that it brings us closer together than ever, doesn't take all of our attention away from each other and, most of all, that we never separate or divorce if there are children in the mix.


----------



## anotherguy

SecondTime - your biggest fear is that your wife will gain weight and you will suffer from a loss of intimacy? Seriously?

Maybe I read to much into how you phrased it - but seems to me like you need to put your primary concern, which seems like yourself, on the back burner and concentrate on the important issues of having a family if that is what happens. Once you do that - everything falls into place. Maybe easier said than done, but I believe it is true.

I hear you on financial concerns. Talk to your wife about it. You may both fully understand the situation, but I think it helps to actually say it out loud - that yes, there will be challenges - but that you will deal with it and you will make it work whatever happens. If you are emotionally ready as you say then this is a no-brainer. Conditional support is meaningless (if I dont get my 'date night' we have a problem) - unconditional support is priceless and ultimately repaid in kind.


----------



## gonefishin

I think this topic is a no brainer.

Having kids (3) made me work harder for the marriage. There is nothing greater in life than the family unit.

Sometimes you hear people give advise to struggling couples "do not stay in an unhappy marriage because of the kids"

I would only agree to a statement like that if the word "unhappy" was replaced with "abusive".

Think about it: Why do most of us get married in the first place. We want to have families!


----------



## anotherguy

gonefishin said:


> .Think about it: Why do most of us get married in the first place. We want to have families!


Not for us. We got married to be with each other. We didnt warm up to the viewpoint of having kids for another 10 years. 15 years from when we met.


----------



## gonefishin

Good point anotherguy.

I guess it all depends where you are in life. Personally, I was 30 when I settled down. Did that, been there.


----------



## I Know

SecondTimesTheCharm said:


> Interesting topic and discussion!
> 
> This is something I have concerns with, as I survived first marriage without any children, thankfully, but will most likely be a first time dad at 40 or 41 years old with my second wife who is in her early 30's and whose clock is ticking LOUDLY.
> 
> I fear about how much intimacy will be lost as a result.
> 
> I fear about how much weight she will gain and whether or not I will want a second child if she doesn't first take off the weight gain from the first child.
> 
> To my wife, "life does not begin" until parenthood but I feel as if I've lived a very full life and experienced so much without yet having children. Being childless does allow one to enjoy a lot of freedom and when I hear of a married couple with children being out on a "date night" that kind of makes me cringe because, for the moment, date night for my wife and I is, in fact, whenever we want it to be and at least a couple nights a week, as opposed to one or two times a month.
> 
> With that said, however, I do think that emotionally we are prepared for parenthood, although, financially, I wish we were in a better place and that worries me, as every month seems a struggle just to pay the mortgage but we are not yet ready to throw in the towel and sell the home, although doing so would allow us a little breathing room as we could lease a similar home for significantly less...but who knows when we'd be ready to buy another home as it is not like we'd end up with enough leftover for a down payment on another home...had to refi the house to payoff the ex-wife, unfortunately.


Charm: your concerns are very valid. You need to have some VERY specific disussions w/ your wife.
Is she going to go back to work after the kids? Can't tell you how many men I know where the wife gauranteed that she would go back to work after the kids. Guess what. Kids came along and wife didn't go back to work. Nothing wrong with that except that the husbands are furious. But now are powerless. Even after the kids are in school the wives are not working. Bait and switch.

Find out how your wife will accomodate you sexually after kids. Do you want it once, twice, 3 times / week? You better make that deal very specific so that you can hold her to it. Before everyone flames me, yes, I know, she's tired, kids are demanding, etc etc. But after a reasonable timeframe your original agreement should be valid. and you have every right to ask for what you want. 

Before the first kid, we agreed that she would go back to work. She did. Before the 2nd kid, I told my wife that I would not change diapers. I would rather not have another one if I had to do diapers. Guess what. I did not do diapers. Oh sure if I were home alone with the kids, I did change them. But if my wife was available she had to do it. There was no resentment on her part because she knew in advance what the deal was. 

Bottom line, figure out specifically what you need to have your sanity post kids, BEFORE you have the kids. If you don't ask in advance you are asking for trouble.


----------



## FirstYearDown

Why would you think that you are above changing YOUR CHILD'S diapers?


----------



## I Know

FirstYearDown said:


> Why would you think that you are above changing YOUR CHILD'S diapers?


You miss the point. There's nothing sinister here. These were my concerns. I articulated them. My wife agreed to them. She got another child. My concerns were agreed upon in advance and met after the birth. Everyone is happy. If I leave these concerns unspoken, they probably will not be met. 

My wife REALLY wanted another child. I needed more convincing, for a variety of reasons, one of those was changing smelly diapers. This agreement demonstrated to me how important the child was to my wife. 

This is how compromising and working together happens, no?


----------



## FirstYearDown

I don't think your concern was sinister at all. 

If you and your wife think that a father should be exempt from changing his child's diapers, that obviously works for you.

Everybody is different. If we had a baby, my husband would have to change our infant as well. After all, I cannot get myself pregnant.


----------



## I Know

FirstYearDown said:


> I don't think your concern was sinister at all.
> 
> If you and your wife think that a father should be exempt from changing his child's diapers, that obviously works for you.
> 
> Everybody is different. If we had a baby, my husband would have to change our infant as well. After all, I cannot get myself pregnant.


LOL. Yeah i realize my diaper thing might be considered trivial to some. And I had concerns about sex frequency as well. But it was very empowering for both of us to define what the ideal situation would look like (for both of us) after kids. When people try to hide their concerns bad things happen. By Bringing them into the light we could negotiate and get that win-win situation going. I love my wife. She knows how to argue correctly. We dont' attack each other. We focus on the problem, like it's an external entity.


----------



## L.M.COYL

Whew, I read through the first FIVE pages, so I'm not entirely informed but I'd like to add my 2cs.

I have been married for a decade and my wife is now at the cut off age and she is STILL unsure, meaning on most days she flat out rejects the notion, while on some days she does seem to wonder what it might be like. 

I am not unsure about my feelings; I am scared to death that she will turn into a 'mommy' and I will lose my 'wife'. 

While we have been around others' children all our lives (and, yes, we've always heard how different it is when they are YOURS), when we would curl up together on the sofa or hold each other on warm sunny mornings in bed, without any cries, shouts or blasting tvs, etc serving to distract and disturb us while we cuddle, nuzzle and screw like mad we entirely loved being and admiring children . . . from a distance - but what we would miss would be heartrending! 

I worry that we would not know or respect each other any more, that her (and my own) figure will go (in my experience as an urban professional parents later if not sooner sorely lack the time or inclination to look after theirselves as diligently as their childfree counterparts), that our shared almost pathological impulsivity will diminish, that our mutually supportive advocacy will be sacrificed on the sacrosanct altar of 'sacrificing for the kids', that our comfort in being comfortably quiet together without being unnerving or intrusive will dissipate, that our joy in patiently exploring rewarding intimacy and enriching and tasty sex will be postponed until we no longer desire it (with each other), that we will dismiss all those who are also childfree because they are simply too painful to be around and remind us of the death or our own poor souls. Hmmm. . . maybe that last one was a _*bit *_hyperbolic. 

As a man who looks back to all of our years together with love and fondness, I am fraught with misgivings concerning this altogether unpredictable course (children). I think you get the picture. 

Anyhow, I have left my fingerprints on all those I have shared with intentionally or not during the course of my lifetime, even subatomically: I don't need a mini-me to reassure me that my existence was meaningful-I know it has been. Now, does my wife?


----------



## FirstYearDown

L.M.COYL said:


> Whew, I read through the first FIVE pages, so I'm not entirely informed but I'd like to add my 2cs.
> 
> I have been married for a decade and my wife is now at the cut off age and she is STILL unsure, meaning on most days she flat out rejects the notion, while on some days she does seem to wonder what it might be like.
> 
> I am not unsure about my feelings; I am scared to death that she will turn into a 'mommy' and I will lose my 'wife'.
> 
> _While we have been around others' children all our lives (and, yes, we've always heard how different it is when they are YOURS), when we would curl up together on the sofa or hold each other on warm sunny mornings in bed, without any cries, shouts or blasting tvs, etc serving to distract and disturb us while we cuddle, nuzzle and screw like mad we entirely loved being and admiring children . . . from a distance - but what we would miss would be heartrending_! :smthumbup:This is just like my husband and I. You captured the joys of childfreedom in such an articulate way.
> 
> I worry that we would not know or respect each other any more, that her (and my own) figure will go (in my experience as an urban professional parents later if not sooner sorely lack the time or inclination to look after theirselves as diligently as their childfree counterparts), that our shared almost pathological impulsivity will diminish, that our mutually supportive advocacy will be sacrificed on the sacrosanct altar of 'sacrificing for the kids', that our comfort in being comfortably quiet together without being unnerving or intrusive will dissipate, that our joy in patiently exploring rewarding intimacy and enriching and tasty sex will be postponed until we no longer desire it (with each other), that we will dismiss all those who are also childfree because they are simply too painful to be around and remind us of the death or our own poor souls. Hmmm. . . maybe that last one was a _*bit *_hyperbolic. :lol::lol:We have those fears too. That is why my husband is getting The Big Snip next week.
> 
> As a man who looks back to all of our years together with love and fondness, I am fraught with misgivings concerning this altogether unpredictable course (children). I think you get the picture.
> 
> Anyhow, I have left my fingerprints on all those I have shared with intentionally or not during the course of my lifetime, even subatomically: I don't need a mini-me to reassure me that my existence was meaningful-I know it has been. Now, does my wife?


----------



## L.M.COYL

Hey, I appreciate all the parents out there and maybe one day I'll choose that route, but, regardless, I see satisfaction and joy in either direction and I can't shake the very real fear that once with child the emphasis whether intentionally or not shifts towards the child, not the spouse. Again, my 2cs.

P-uh-AAAAAAAAYYYYEEEEECCCCCCE!


----------



## Noel1987

I dont have any kiddo yet so can tell you my experience expect gaining


----------



## anotherguy

L.M.COYL said:


> Hey, I appreciate all the parents out there and maybe one day I'll choose that route, but, regardless, I see satisfaction and joy in either direction and I can't shake the very real fear that once with child the emphasis whether intentionally or not shifts towards the child, not the spouse...


..and that shift, is exactly as it should be. Make no mistake about it.


----------



## Noel1987

DoYouWoo said:


> I ask because I got talking to come guy friends recently about this (after a couple of drinks - our macho-guards were down!) and opinions varied wildly. For myself, having our 2 boys definitely brought us closer together - sure we snapped at each other a bit when we were tired after a tough night, and our sex life suffered in the short term more due to lack of energy/opportunity than desire - but having a common 'job' of being a parent made us feel more like a team. That contrasts with some of my friends who, although they adore their kids, see them as this massive obstacle to being closer to their wives, almost seeing the kids as competitors for their wife's attention, and it creates friction in their relationship. Just wondering what your experiences are?


Reading your post looks life gonna be tough...


----------



## DocHoliday

My husband was a wonderful father to our girls...when they were children. We were kind of the enviable family, we had a very good life. 

When the eldest got to be about 12 or so, (she had to ALWAYS have the last word) the arguments really started a huge down turn in my marriage. I was sick of the referee role, my daughter did not UNDERSTAND her part in her role, and my husband did not give a shoot about what anyone had to say.

I work with teenagers, everyday. I am very used to their way of speaking and thinking and acting. I saw my daughters snottiness for what it was.. jerkwater "teenager mouth". To my husband, it was all just disrespect that needed to be controlled/disciplined/fixed....

He *never* listened to me. I lost a great deal of respect (and probably love) for him during those years. He would argue like a child himself, everything was _everybody elses fault_---and I always wondered what happened to the man I married.

Surely, I know there were other things that he had on his plate, work crisis and turning 40 yadda yadda... and a mouthy teenager is not what he felt like addressing at home. I got that--
But- His reactions lowered my respect for him. I thought aliens had taken him.

Good news is that (with "Mouthy" at university) things have gotten much better at home. He never made peace with her at home, but at school they seem to be better.. Second daughter a more mellow, "pleaser" and, at 15 they have had a few tiffs, but not anything like WWIII that happened during the last 5 (almost 6)years.

So I guess, children added to the marriage, but teenagers kind of sank it (for a few years anyway). I hope we can recover, I hope my children can recover their relationships with their father.


----------



## twist.in.my.story

that_girl said:


> I don't know my husband without kids LOL
> 
> We got pregnant within 2 months of dating and then moved in together and got married 1.5 years later. I already had a daughter who was 8.
> 
> I don't think they are hard on a marriage  You just have to make priorities. I am not up my kids' asses all day. I devote time to the house, me, my husband...my kids do what they do and we hang out, but life is not all about the kids in this house.
> 
> We have a good balance with kids and our alone time. We spend every evening together after the kids go to bed.
> 
> I love my girls  Sometimes I wished we would have traveled more, but that time will come.


I couldn't be more on the same page as you!

My husband and i had only been dating a few months when i got pregnant so we don't really know each other without kids.

I think it makes our relationship stronger because we have to make time for each other, otherwise we would never have one on one time!


----------



## CompatibilityandLove

My children make my marriage easier and my life harder and I wouldnt have it any other way.


----------



## PaGuy

Coffee Amore said:


> We're a very close family. Becoming parents has bonded husband and I, but we have so little time together though as a couple. We have to schedule date nights if we want to do something by ourselves. It's rare we can do something spontaneously like before. I miss that. I'll admit there are times I wish I hadn't become a mom. No one forced me to be a mom. It was something I really wanted, but I didn't realize how big the committment of my time and energy would be. The moments where I wish I wasn't a mom are few. Majority of the time I'm happy that it's not just the two of us as a couple.


Neither, just took life as how we knew and turned it upside down. Once we figured things out and got used to it was about the same


----------



## Nala2012

Both, of course the tiredness caused us to be ratty and snappy with each other. The lack of time you have with each other suffers too. BUT, we have a beautiful 2yr old and watching her sleep, 'threebe' cuddles and kisses, her milestones, new phrases... all make us laugh and smile together and we talk about how lucky we are to have her. Ups and downs but if you are a strong unit the good should outweigh the bad x


----------



## L.M.COYL

anotherguy said:


> ..and that shift, is exactly as it should be. Make no mistake about it.



Really? I would think and do so that the most important thing is the spouse THEN the child; perhaps, hee-hee-heee, that's why I don't have any children. But seriously, how can you experience satisfaction as a couple who help one another if the emphasis is on child rearing? The main course is the relationship while children are simply a supplemental course.


----------



## OhGeesh

When kids are young it's easy.........it's almost all about the parents imo. Until they get to the teen years then you will know what parenting is, so for all of the young parents enjoy it. 

Kids rock until 14-15 then slowly it becomes "Ehhhhh" all imo  Then again I might be weird....lol.


----------



## heartsbeating

L.M.COYL said:


> that we will dismiss all those who are also childfree because they are simply too painful to be around *and remind us of the death or our own poor souls*.


lol ...I just read your post with Paul Giamatti's voice in my head.


----------



## I Know

L.M.COYL said:


> Really? I would think and do so that the most important thing is the spouse THEN the child; perhaps, hee-hee-heee, that's why I don't have any children. But seriously, how can you experience satisfaction as a couple who help one another if the emphasis is on child rearing? The main course is the relationship while children are simply a supplemental course.


You have this exactly right. We do our kids no favors by neglecting the spouse and getting divorced because of it. Blows my mind that some parents get so wrapped up in hauling the kids from soccer to band to whatever else, that they are too tired to have sex or even talk w/ their spouses. 

Parents need to keep the most important thing as the most important thing. Make it a priority.


----------



## CantBeJustMe

We have one child. Our son is 15. Great kid. Wouldn't trade any of the things I went through, because that would mean not having him. That being said.

Kids will strengthen the strong parts of you marriage. Kids will also pull at the weak seams of you marriage. 

Kids will bond you when you both share the same views on certain things. Kids will pull you apart (if you let it) where your differ on certain views.

Having children will many times bring out personality traits and consequences of things that happened to you or your spouse earlier in life. 

For example: My wife’s Mother was not a good parental role model. Her Father was pretty much useless. My wife was deadest on being a stay at home Mom, and ended up putting her son FIRST, before our marriage, for a long time. She didn’t see this as wrong. 

My wife never had a strong Father presence in her life. Early on, and every now and again still, she will disagree with my parenting methods, and try to tell me “I’m too hard on him.” I understand where she is coming from. We have worked through it, but I have been firm from the beginning that I am his Father. I won’t interfere when she is disciplining or dealing with our son, if I disagree about something, I’ll bring it up to her, without our son present, later. I’ve had to stand her down on this a few times, but it’s not as bad as it sounds.

Having children WILL NOT save a struggling relationship. What they WILL Do is keep you busy enough, and shift your FOCUS so that your relationship with your spouse doesn’t SEEM to be as bad as it was “before”. That’s a slippery slope.

Know that having different views on Politics is one thing, having different BASIC views on disciplining a child for example, is quite another. I’ve even thought of writing a questionnaire for guys to ask of potential wives when the talk of having children comes up. Sounds silly but it’s not.

Compromise is your friend on CERTAIN issues. But having your spouse confront or disagree with your, regarding your children, in FRONT of the child, is NEVER good. It can make kids feel like they can play one off the other, even at young ages. They aren’t doing it to be mean or nasty, they are doing it because it can work to get their way. This can start when they are young.

I see parents who stick together “For their Children” but most of the time I think it’s bull****. They stay together because they are so entrenched and involved as a family unit, that breaking it off seems harder than staying. Easier sometimes to stay, bury your head in the sand and keep going, than to address the problems and meet them head on. 

In our case, my wife suffered depression and anxiety after the birth of our son. She also struggled with IBS Like symptoms and lactose intolerance (Wasn’t before the birth). This luckily didn’t affect her ability to be a great Mother, but it sure put strains on our marriage. 

Turns out what of the biggest issues my wife had was being a stay at home Mom, which was her choice. This was a HUGE adjustment to a woman used to being independent and working outside of the home. Keep that in mind as well. 

Kids are great. I wouldn’t trade my son for anything in the world. But making sure your priorities are the same as your spouse is HUGE deal when it comes to having kids.

http://alphaplease.blogspot.com/


----------



## CantBeJustMe

OhGeesh said:


> When kids are young it's easy.........it's almost all about the parents imo. Until they get to the teen years then you will know what parenting is, so for all of the young parents enjoy it.
> 
> Kids rock until 14-15 then slowly it becomes "Ehhhhh" all imo  Then again I might be weird....lol.


14-15? My son was a bright, intelligent, respectful, polite, athletic kid at 12. He turned 13 and became a goofy, mouthy, know-it-all honor-roll / athlete version of Shaggy from Scooby Doo. Still haven't found his stash.

Doesn't help he's over 6ft tall already and 165lb of muscle. Nothing will motivate a Father more to get in shape than to see his son walk around with no shirt, checking himself out in the mirrors. The punk.

Taking Back the Reins


----------



## CantBeJustMe

I see some posts that quite frankly make me wonder what some marriages will be like when the nest is empty.

I see both men and women saying the child should come first.

If BOTH husband and wife are on the same page on this, I guess that could work. Problems crop up when one spouse feels neglected by the other, because they put the child first in everything. Many times this ends up making the spouse that feels neglected feel guilty. 

“Jealous over my own kid? That’s horrible.” 

So they don’t say anything, or at least they do until it becomes too much to bear and they lash out or go outside their marriage for that attention they deserve.

We had our son early. I’ll be 41 years old when the graduates high school, my wife 40 years old. My wife asked me the other day.

“What are we going to do when he goes off to college?”

My answer:

“I don’t know. Guess we’ll have to go out every night, then come and get naked until we figure it out.”

Kids are great. But payback can be relished. I want to die and come back as my grandchild as an infant. That way I can wait until my son and his wife (if a woman ever decides to put up with him) are JUST getting time along so I can start wailing. Now THAT would be rewarding. LMAO.

I have several conversations planned out, to have with my son, after he’s out of the house and on his own. One will be in regards to choosing a potential wife and the other will be a punch in the mouth after telling him what a pain in the ass he was to me all those years…LOL.


----------



## Bobby5000

They probably make good marriages more meaningful and put more pressure on bad ones.


----------



## FirstYearDown

CantBeJustMe said:


> We have one child. Our son is 15. Great kid. Wouldn't trade any of the things I went through, because that would mean not having him. That being said.
> 
> Kids will strengthen the strong parts of you marriage. Kids will also pull at the weak seams of you marriage.
> 
> Kids will bond you when you both share the same views on certain things. Kids will pull you apart (if you let it) where your differ on certain views.
> 
> Having children will many times bring out personality traits and consequences of things that happened to you or your spouse earlier in life.
> 
> For example: My wife’s Mother was not a good parental role model. Her Father was pretty much useless. My wife was deadest on being a stay at home Mom, and ended up putting her son FIRST, before our marriage, for a long time. She didn’t see this as wrong.
> 
> My wife never had a strong Father presence in her life. Early on, and every now and again still, she will disagree with my parenting methods, and try to tell me “I’m too hard on him.” I understand where she is coming from. We have worked through it, but I have been firm from the beginning that I am his Father. I won’t interfere when she is disciplining or dealing with our son, if I disagree about something, I’ll bring it up to her, without our son present, later. I’ve had to stand her down on this a few times, but it’s not as bad as it sounds.
> 
> Having children WILL NOT save a struggling relationship. What they WILL Do is keep you busy enough, and shift your FOCUS so that your relationship with your spouse doesn’t SEEM to be as bad as it was “before”. That’s a slippery slope.
> 
> Know that having different views on Politics is one thing, having different BASIC views on disciplining a child for example, is quite another. I’ve even thought of writing a questionnaire for guys to ask of potential wives when the talk of having children comes up. Sounds silly but it’s not.
> 
> Compromise is your friend on CERTAIN issues. But having your spouse confront or disagree with your, regarding your children, in FRONT of the child, is NEVER good. It can make kids feel like they can play one off the other, even at young ages. They aren’t doing it to be mean or nasty, they are doing it because it can work to get their way. This can start when they are young.
> 
> *I see parents who stick together “For their Children” but most of the time I think it’s bull****. They stay together because they are so entrenched and involved as a family unit, that breaking it off seems harder than staying. Easier sometimes to stay, bury your head in the sand and keep going, than to address the problems and meet them head on. *
> In our case, my wife suffered depression and anxiety after the birth of our son. She also struggled with IBS Like symptoms and lactose intolerance (Wasn’t before the birth). This luckily didn’t affect her ability to be a great Mother, but it sure put strains on our marriage.
> 
> Turns out what of the biggest issues my wife had was being a stay at home Mom, which was her choice. This was a HUGE adjustment to a woman used to being independent and working outside of the home. Keep that in mind as well.
> 
> Kids are great. I wouldn’t trade my son for anything in the world. But making sure your priorities are the same as your spouse is HUGE deal when it comes to having kids.
> 
> Taking Back the Reins


:iagree: Love the bolded part.


----------



## arbitrator

In my most recent marriage(2nd), I brought 2 teenagers into it, and my STBXW brought 3 of them. The biggest difference is mine were educationally inclined, studied hard, made excellent grades and were motivated. They also ran with a great crowd of kids.

My STBXW's kids conversely were of a mindset that they did not want to be told what to do, were undisciplined by their mother, were given money for everything they wanted, ran with a rough crowd, got tattoos and got arrested/incarcerated for drugs, dropped out of high school and they still don't have work, choosing to live off Mama. Her kids ripped a chasm between us because she refuses to use any kind of discipline on them. She loves my kids to death because they are doing what she wishes her own would have done. In essence, her kids have greatly contributed to our divorce proceedings. I will miss my STBXW, but I sure won't miss her kids!


----------



## FirstYearDown

A frightened child is a compliant child.

Some parents believe in instilling nothing but fear and then moan about how their adult kids never visit them.


----------



## AE86freak

If it wasn't for our son, Our marriage would've had a hard first year (He was born two months after the wedding). I was brought up to have a strong sence of duty to family. So giving up hang out with friends or staying out late was easy for me considering I have my son at home that wants to play with me and see me before bed. And being there to help my wife with him is important. IF he wasn't in the picture, I would feel like my wife had me in a headlock and trying to keep me from having some "me time".


----------



## Emly

In My Opinion Kids makes a life much better and make the relationship so closer!


----------



## diwali123

Interesting. With my first marriage, having a baby was amazing for me but not for him. Despite the fact that we had discussed it for years and he claimed to really want a child, he wanted nothing to do with her. He told me two weeks before my due date that because he was working and I was "just" going to be taking care of a baby, he didn't think it was fair that he should have to do anything. That was not our agreement when we conceived. He hated holding her, never had those moments dad's get when they just stare at their baby with pride. He actually asked me after she was born if I liked her more than him! 
I came to realize that I basically had two children to take care of by myself. He wanted his life to continue on as normal, have the same amount of time for friends, hobbies and video games. I was so upset about the fact that he had misled me and that he didn't seem to care about our child that I just started to lose love for him. If I asked to leave for an hour while he spent time with her, he would get huffy, sigh and roll his eyes. By the time I got home he would be irate. We got into a lot if fights about it. 
There's a lot more to it, like his mental disorder and failure to address it, his pot smoking and complete lack of empathy or compassion for me. We separated after her third birthday. 
When she was five, I met my husband. He has two boys and I think the kids being us closer together. I know it's different because we have every other weekend off from them. But our kids are two months apart. We call them "step twins". It's nice to be parenting kids who are going through the same stages. I love watching how loving he is with him, even watching him set limits and punish them because I know how much he cares. I love it when we do fun things as a family. 
He is just such a great parent, and it's very attractive to me. We have similar ideas about child rearing and so that makes it even better. 
Although we do have every other weekend off, the stress of dealing with our ex's, child support giving and receiving, parenting plans, driving all over for drop offs, dealing with differences between our home and the ex's home can be very stressful. But I wouldn't change it. 
I just wonder why I couldn't have met him earlier. But then we wouldn't have these three remarkable kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## chantiq72

Interesting topic!! Make me want to share my situation. 
My husband and his ex have a girl, now 14 y/o. Although they both love her, but they can't stand each other. They're already at each other throat even before their daughter born. (she got pregnant after 4 months together). They've been seperated many times before they finally seperated for good when their daughter was 5 years old. My husband once admited that the reason why he keep coming back to his ex before the final separation, just because of his daughter. 

I don't think kid in his situation make his relationship better or worse. They're just not compatible, but sure, kid is his reason to make consideration to reconcille, eventhough at the end they're seperated anyway.

Since then, my husband has a share custody and having his daughter every weekend. 5 years after he seperated, he met me, and we've been married for 4 years. We don't have kid together. My husband and I are having so much in common and we get on really well. Once we get married and I move in to his house, that is when the problem begin. I'm having so much trouble with my step daughter. She is not a bad kid, but she is a very difficult kid. She is always become a reason my husband and I get into argument. We both stress because of her. I know that my husband also having a lot of stress because of her, but he just never admit it. He loves her and spoil her too much.

Anyway, since Christmas 2011, My step daughter with the help of her mother has engage a lawyer and she decided to not see her father anymore. One of the allegation on the letter from the lawyer saying that my husband abuse her which is a total lie. My husband never abuse her. Let alone abusing her, he never ever yell or mad at her even when she make some mistake. 

At the begining, my husband so crash. We were fighting for a week after receiving the letter. My husband was blaming me for this to happen. Although in the letter is written clearly that she got nothing against me, and this allegation is solely to her father. 

It's been 3 months since the case arise. We still in the middle of the battle with her lawyer, but last night we were talking and my husband saying that his ex really do him a favour, and he probably should send her a flower. He feel that he never feel relax and happier. He feel that his relationship with me is getting better. And it is... we're just like when we were still dating. He miss his daughter ofcourse, and would like to see her sometime.


----------



## ICS_JOHN

I came into the relationship knowing there was kids and I think it made me MUCH better and in the long run, it has made up better. Sure theres lots of things that get on your nerves but thats part of parenting. I have to say Parenting was the best thing for me to make me a better person so marriage would be better. Now that the kids are upper teens I kinda want our time, which in the old days would have been physical stuff but now its more of watching Idol or movie or getting in a good nap.


----------



## rumple9

I love my daughter dearly but the day she was born our relationship died. I certainly wouldn't want any more children


----------



## Gaia

I would have to say.... kids have definately made my relationship more interesting... After i had my son... my hubby and i were in a one bedroom for awhile and we had to sneak out to his truck to get our freak on... lol.


----------



## AE86freak

rumple9 said:


> I love my daughter dearly but the day she was born our relationship died. I certainly wouldn't want any more children


You relationship died cause you two (or at least on of you) were to lazy to put in the extra effort required to keep the kettle boiling. Love is a verb. You have to do and your partner has to do to keep the love alive... baby or no baby.


----------



## YinPrincess

I know our baby is only a month old (holy cow where did the time go already?!) But things between hubby and I have improved dramatically. I think now that we are both realizing it's not just for us anymore - it's for our daughter as well. For the most part our communication and cooperation together as a team is 100 times better because we know she's watching and listening.

I realize we are still in the honeymoon phase with the baby, but I hope we continue to get better and improve over the years and not let old habits creep back in. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## omega

YP, your post made my day! So glad things are continuing to go well for you and your family! Hugs!!


----------



## ChargingCharlie

Ours got worse. Now that they're here, just about everything she says is like nails on a chalkboard to me, and that's not good. She wants to be liked by everyone, and she's also proud of the fact that she's a woman in her mid-40's that's about as mature as a 12 year old. Didn't bother me before, but now with kids it drives me up the wall. 

I don't even like being around her anymore, and I love it when she goes somewhere and the kids and I have some time together.


----------



## Pandakiss

.


----------



## ChargingCharlie

Pandakiss said:


> I don't mean to thread hijack (well slightly since its a zombie thread)
> 
> But I have seen a few of your posts that you refer to your wife and childish and immature. I have been thinking about this and wonder what is it exactly that she does....
> 
> If you wouldn't mind sharing, I totally understand if you don't want to say.


Sorry for the late reply, and sorry for beating that horse to death. I feel this is the only place to vent, so vent I do. 

Some things she does (I'm going to be somewhat vague just to be safe, so you may wonder):

1. Calls sports teams by made up names that a 10 year old boy would use (not going to name which teams)
2. Her sense of humor is very juvenile. I expect that kind of humor from a pre-teen, not a middle age woman. Can't really give any examples, but I know juvenile. 
3. Loves to cuss, even around the kids. Now I'm not a prude, and I've been known to drop an f-bomb a time or two (or thousand). However, I don't make it part of my normal conversation. She'll use that language all the time. I try to remind her not to use those words around the kids, and she doesn't care. Last week, one of the kids did something, and she went ballistic yelling every curse word there was at the top of her lungs. I took the kids upstairs to play. 
4. Drives like a maniac. In her mind, driving offensively is how you're supposed to drive. 
5. This isn't necessarily an immaturity issue, but she's always complaining that she can't sleep and has a headache, yet all she drinks is diet soda. I mentioned in another post that I've tried to get her to drink water or something that's hydrating, and her reaction is to ask me where I got my medical degree (no, I'm not a doctor). 

There's more, but that's all I can write now. Some of this I'm sure can be attributed to the kids being around, meaning that I'm much more sensitive to this stuff now than I was before they arrived. Her one sibling doesn't help either, as they're always texting and talking like a couple of 12 year olds.


----------



## Pandakiss

.


----------



## Fozzy

Wow. Hard to admit, but my kids made my marriage worse, but my life better. Weird huh?


----------



## RandomDude

Better, we became closer because of our daughter. Sad that even she can't encourage us to prevent our inevitable seperation and coming divorce though


----------



## Mark P

Our (at the time) four year old son unknowingly kicked us in the right direction before we could totally screw up our marriage (my wife already proposed a divorce). Our son was showing his anxiety by being almost just unbearable, dangerous to other children at kindergarten. On top of that, he enjoyed hurting himself. After we found out all of that, we started visiting a number of child counselors.... I'm almost embarrassed to say that it took as almost two years to realize that while we're trying to fix our son we should have been fixing our marriage instead. Luckily though we realized that and and pretty soon after that things started going into the right direction again. Scary times though. Scary for us as a family, scary for two of us with my wife. Luckily we scraped and dug ourselves out of the trouble and I'm so grateful for that. I will always be grateful to our little son who unknowingly showed us we were doing something terribly wrong in our marriage.


----------



## BrutalHonesty

Kids don't usually make marriages better. But they will make your life better just by existing IMO.


----------



## Happilymarried25

I think kids make a marriage both better and worse in most cases. Better because you have a common bond to raise your children and work together to do that and worse because they are time consuming, expensive and sometimes you have different views on how to raise your children which can cause arguments. I also notice from my own experience and others here how having children can take a toll on your sex life. 

That said having children was the best decision we ever made, they are teenagers now and as they have become more independent and don't need us as much we are enjoying each other more as a couple than just as Dad and Mom.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano

I have never been married, but I have seen the childfull/childfree wars.

I think only you can make yourself happiness, and then you choose how to share yourself. For some people that is kids, for others it is not. 

I think it would just be as silly to say to a parent that they missed out on all the great free time and aren't truly happy but Stockholm Syndromed, just as it would be to go up to this guy and tell him he was unfulfilled and could never experience deeo love for never having children

http://johnstepper.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/The-Dalai-Lama.jpg

We are still ourselves with or without children. We can never know what our lives would have looked and felt like if we took another path and so to speculate that we would have been more or less happy is hard enough. Trying to judge if other people's lives would be more or less happy with or without children is even harder. 

I am fairly sure I do not want to have children. I fully believe it when a parent tells me that having children was the best thing they ever did and they would have been bored otherwise. Kids are beautiful. 

I also fully believe it when someone who never had kids and is nearing the last decade of their life tells me they don't regret it at all. 

Maybe I will change my mind. If I do, it will still be me, finding my own happiness and choosing how to share myself.


----------

