# Getting Past Lies



## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

Prelims: Married 17 years, I'm 45, she's 41. Two kids, oldest is 10. No history of infidelity.

I was on my wife's phone trying to figure out why her texts were getting out to others, but sometimes not to me. There seemed to occasionally be a delay of several hours for me to get a text. As I was trying to figure out a time-frame and discover if the delayed-delivery texts could be linked to where I might have been at the time I was looking at some specific messages and the times associated with them. I saw this phrase in one of the messages to her best friend - we'll call her "Jenny": "...not fair for him to pick a fight with you." I read the surrounding texts. I wanted to know who was picking a fight with my wife. 

Evidently it was me. 

It was referencing a disagreement that my wife and I had had three days before about plans with our kids. There were probably four messages on each side between my wife and her friend (her best friend, a woman we used to work with and with whom we are both friends). The friend strongly took my wife's side, my wife expressed some feelings to her about the issue she hadn't said to me. None of that was bad from my perspective, though I wish she'd have brought up the strength of her feelings to me at the time. I like the fact that my wife has female friends to confide in.

The next day I asked my wife if she had talked to "Jenny" about our argument. And that's when this all turned from no big deal to a big deal. Almost without pause, my wife said "No, haven't talked to her about it." That threw me for a loop.

"Well, if you had talked to her about it, what do you think she'd say?" I asked.

"I don't know. I don't know what she'd think." Was her response.

Now to my knowledge that's the first time she's lied to me. I confronted her that night, told her I saw the texts. She said she lied because she didn't want me to hate "Jenny". She apologized, said that was the only time she's lied to me. I told her I would choose to believe her and that was that.

Only it wasn't. 

Because then I found myself wondering what else she's lied about over the past 20 years. Her past? Our present? The work trip three years ago? Whether she really wanted to support our son doing a million activities, etc. I'd never questioned any of this before. But now my mind kept looking for every possible discrepancy and inconsistency. Being told that "this was the only time" she's lied to me wasn't exactly convincing.

My mind was on overdrive, and I was doing things I've never thought I'd do. I went through her texts, contacts, e-mails. I've gone over the bank records, the call records. That mania (?) lasted for a couple of weeks, but settled down because there was nothing there in any of it. 

One thing that became clear as I was looking through the cell bill was that when she went out of the country on business in January someone had gotten a hold of her phone number or our account and somehow used it for several dozen texts. They only show up on our bill, not on the phone itself. I know this wasn't her because I looked the number up, and it's front and center on almost all call fraud sites (basically if you're going to Jamaica, Costa Rica, Mexico, etc. there's a reasonable chance you might be a target of this thing). I told her about the scam.

Two weeks ago I e-mailed her to ask for the login information for our cell bill (I'd forgotten it) so I could check to make sure the texts had stopped once she got back stateside since this is what the fraud sites said would happen. In my e-mail to her I just said I wanted the login information and didn't say why. She sent me the information and asked why. I told her I was looking into a couple of things, to which she e-mailed back "Like????" I didn't respond for an hour, and so on her lunch break she marched into where I was working (we work in the same building) and asked me about why I was looking at the phone bill. She said she thought I trusted her, and now it looked like I didn't. I told her I was looking into the fraudulent number and just wanted to see if there were any other discrepancies in our bill. Then she asks, "How far back are you going?"

None of that - the "Like????", the hustling into my work space at her earliest opportunity, and the "How far back are you going?" none of that has done anything to bolster my trust in what she says now. I told her as much. That night I told her that whatever big discussion we needed to have was something we needed to have while I was still willing to have a discussion. I told her that whatever lies or untruths were in our past or present we could work through as long as they were brought up and killed now. I said that there was no way a rational person responded to my request for our login information in the way she did, and I love her and want to clear everything no matter how big or small it is. She broke into tears, said I didn't trust her and there was nothing she could do. She said that the "Like????" was a natural enough response, her coming down to see me was because she was freaked out that I wasn't trusting her, and the "How far back" was because she wanted to know if I thought there was more to worry about than just the time-frame during which she was out of the country. She said there was no "big thing" we needed to discuss; it was a bad reaction on her part, she understood why it looked shady to me, but she also hoped I could understand why she reacted the way she did. I was pretty noncommittal.

So.

It made me crazy again. I'm back to wondering and acting like some kind of bad PI. I found one of her old phones, one that's years old. I fired it up, looked at all the texts on it, even ran a program on it to recover deleted texts. Nothing conclusive on the deleted texts, but while she was away on business three years ago she was texting some of the people she had met at the conference. It was all normal banter enough, mostly just coordinating where to go and when to get there. There was one text when one person was trying to find out where everyone was. My wife texted, "playing poker with John and Tiffany. Did you get the corkscrew?" Okay, not bad, not my preference that my wife is playing poker with folks she just met - especially with alcohol involved - but I've played cards with folks when I'm on these trips, so not too bad.

But I had to push it. 

The next day I brought up the subject of poker. Just poker in general. I asked her when the last time she played poker was. She said, "Ten years ago with you and Mick in Florida."

Sigh.

I kept talking about poker for a couple of minutes in case she just needed a prompt to remember. Nothing. Just reaffirming that the last time she'd played poker was a decade ago. Maybe she just forgot about playing it on the trip.

This whole situation has turned me into someone I don't want to be and someone I'd never been before. I've never looked at her texts before, never glanced at our bank account statements, phone records, nothing. But now...I don't know where I'm at. I don't know how I move on and start trusting. I don't know if I should move past this. I don't know whether I have a problem now (I think I do), she has a problem, or the marriage has a serious problem.

I don't like feeling like this. I don't like feeling like I don't trust my wife. It's a new and terrible feeling. I haven't brought up the poker thing yet. Maybe she just forgot...It was 2014...but yesterday pretty randomly she was able to remember not having a corkscrew for some wine she bought while there...

Anyhow, how do I get a feeling of trust back for her? It's hurting my relationship with her. I want to respond fully to her, but now there is a wall I'm putting up because of the lie and the potential lies.

Have any of you been lied to? How does a relationship fully recover from a lie? Does it? Am I making way more out of this than I should?

Totally lost here.

Thanks in advance.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

the fact that she did not want to give you the login passcode because she thought you were fishing....troubles me....there is an old Shakespeare quote that has a lot of truth to it "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" for her to be on the attack saying you don't trust me, tells me she has something to hide.


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

I have a similar issue. My wife's phone was still on one night and she was sleeping, her hand was across the screen so I guess that's why it never locked. I went to move it for her and saw a text with a guy friend talking about me, so of course I looked further. Long story short, I found a very suggestive text from him with a vague response from her. I confronted, things blew up and we're still on the rocks about it. I asked to see the phone again the next day and she refused citing how important her privacy was to her. I asked a few more time over the next few days and all it did was cause her to shut down and withdraw herself.

So another long story short, a couple weeks later I accessed the phone without her knowing. I was suspicious and I needed to know. I looked through everything, I saw texts with friends talking about me making a big deal over an unsolicited text from this guy, I saw texts of her talking about our problems with her friends, and I even saw some texts where she wasn't telling people the whole story. So the bottom line is that women talk crap with their friends, yes they have secrets, and yes they lie about their men sometimes. That's most likely the reasoning behind it, but I may try to keep an eye on things for a little


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

The more you look the more you're going to find and if you say "I know you lied about poker" its not like she's going to roll over and say "You're right I'm a big fat liar and you are right to check up on me". She'll get defensive and look at you as the bad guy.

So stop looking and maybe try to find reasons that she doesn't want to be honest with you that you can fix.


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## allez (May 26, 2015)

My wife occasionally reads messages on my phone, and I don't like it. I've nothing to hide, but that's not really the point. They're _my _messages, they're _my _conversations, with _my _friends. If there is ever anything I feel would interest my wife, or that is any of her business, I generally tell her anyway. Relationship or not, some things are just for me, some things are just for her, we're one couple, not one person.

I think if I found out that my wife had got a phone I had years ago, and used a programme to download deleted messages from it, that would almost be enough for me to end the relationship. I think that's nuts. That's way beyond a slight trust issue, and someone who was even remotely happy in a relationship wouldn't consider doing that. In my opinion. 

Further, despite all your investigative work, which is fairly extensive, it seems the most you've found is that your wife once played poker with a couple of work friends while on a work trip, and they couldn't find a corkscrew, it's not exactly scandalous. 

Finally - you're not the Gestapo, you're meant to be there to support your wife, not to attempt to trip her up over the minutiae. If you want to know something that badly, ask her outright, it's only fair.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

allez said:


> My wife occasionally reads messages on my phone, and I don't like it. I've nothing to hide, but that's not really the point. They're _my _messages, they're _my _conversations, with _my _friends. If there is ever anything I feel would interest my wife, or that is any of her business, I generally tell her anyway. Relationship or not, some things are just for me, some things are just for her, we're one couple, not one person.
> 
> I think if I found out that my wife had got a phone I had years ago, and used a programme to download deleted messages from it, that would almost be enough for me to end the relationship. I think that's nuts. That's way beyond a slight trust issue, and someone who was even remotely happy in a relationship wouldn't consider doing that. In my opinion.
> 
> ...


Completely agree. My SO and I know each other's phone passwords (it's the same on both phones) and have no problem borrowing the other's phone to check the weather, make a quick call, etc. But I can tell you this: if he EVER went scrounging through my private conversations with my sister, girlfriends, etc. or downloaded spy software to read everything I've ever sent to anyone, I would kick his ass to the curb.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I have a different take. She did lie to you. She found it easy to lie to you. It is unlikely that she's not lying about other things, you just don't know what.
Confront her with what you know and tell her faith has been broken. She lied, and you snooped.
I understand that snooping may tick some off, but in my experience a healthy relationship does not including lies and deception. So you two do not have a healthy relationship.
Either you both work to develop trust which is currently non-existent on both sides, or end the relationship.

If you don't do the hard work now, the marriage is doomed. Sounds harsh, but there it is.
And if she is unwilling to work at it through counseling of some sort, the marriage is over.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

Look OP what's really troubling you is that you know that she's done something wrong. You most likely noticed something is not right with your relationship then the gut feeling or a lot more things aren't adding up it's probably both.? Do not confront her anymore you need to get more information. Try not letting on to her that you are doing this so it doesn't put a bigger strain on your relationship that they're already is... If she is currently up to no good, and she takes notice that your in detective mode. She will be taking it further underground making it nearly impossible for you to find our detect any of her indiscretions or wayward behavior, making your life and you finding evidence a lot harder. I would personally just on the information you given us would say your wife is definitely a cheater or has cheated in the past.!!! look how many women and men cheat these days like it's for free... people are really messed up, unfortunately your wife's one of them that's my opinion... could she be innocent I don't think so. I would say she's guilty but confronting her now with no evidence is absolutely the wrong thing to do. It already has put a strain on the relationship and you'll get no answers, most likely end up divorcing and she will have gotten away with her infidelities that you weren't even sure she did. It will drive you nuts the rest of your life.! so do the right thing either find your evidence or put it all to rest and live your life like nothing happened. I doubt you'll do the second one... Best thing you can do is keep posting here there are a lot of good people here that will help you through this...


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## allez (May 26, 2015)

Sparta said:


> Look OP what's really troubling you is that you know that she's done something wrong. You most likely noticed something is not right with your relationship then the gut feeling or a lot more things aren't adding up it's probably both.? Do not confront her anymore you need to get more information. Try not letting on to her that you are doing this so it doesn't put a bigger strain on your relationship that they're already is... If she is currently up to no good, and she takes notice that your in detective mode. She will be taking it further underground making it nearly impossible for you to find our detect any of her indiscretions or wayward behavior, making your life and you finding evidence a lot harder. I would personally just on the information you given us would say your wife is definitely a cheater or has cheated in the past.!!! look how many women and men cheat these days like it's for free... people are really messed up, unfortunately your wife's one of them that's my opinion... could she be innocent I don't think so. I would say she's guilty but confronting her now with no evidence is absolutely the wrong thing to do. It already has put a strain on the relationship and you'll get no answers, most likely end up divorcing and she will have gotten away with her infidelities that you weren't even sure she did. It will drive you nuts the rest of your life.! so do the right thing either find your evidence or put it all to rest and live your life like nothing happened. I doubt you'll do the second one... Best thing you can do is keep posting here there are a lot of good people here that will help you through this...


I think this is a very unhelpful post for the OP. There is nothing in the OP that suggests the wife is cheating, nothing at all. He doesn't _know _anything. 

What you're advising is that he doesn't speak to his wife, and instead plays the amateur detective some more - he's already done that, he didn't find anything.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

So my sister tells me about her xh, who had a pretty high caliber job that sometimes required late meetings. He'd call her and tell her he would not be home for dinner. She never had suspicions he was cheating. And she still believes he did not cheat. Because there was nothing odd which set off her spidey-senses. Having the occasional late meeting is not odd by itself. But had she detected lies or had there been odd behaviors, each of those calls would have sent her over the edge with suspicion.

I think what you're experiencing is a bit of the latter, where you've found something dishonest and now you're seeing everything as a potential betrayal. The messages about poker are not suspicious at all. She may not even remember playing poker with those people, and maybe they weren't playing poker but instead were playing blackjack so she didn't recall it when you had your recent discussion.

You need to stfu about questioning her. You're setting her up to fail in order to prove to yourself she is untrustworthy. And, the way you're doing it is counter productive. If she's not done anything disloyal, she's going to be pissed at you for the way you're questioning her. If she did cheat in some way, she's going to know you're suspicious and so she'll hide any evidence deeper.

You're making a classic mistake with the way you're approaching this.

I do think there is some reason to be suspicious about things. But you said she had some conversations with friends about the unsolicited message from the other guy (I can't call him an other man because people will freak out thinking I am saying they are in an affair). Those conversations would suggest she is not cheating with him, though it is not conclusive, because she thought the conversation was private and thus might have confessed to her friend that you caught her. The denial about poker may or may not indicate anything. Her reaction to you asking about the phone bill password is a red flag to me.

Right now I think you are overly sensitive or worried, and you are not on a productive path to resolution.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

allez said:


> I think this is a very unhelpful post for the OP. There is nothing in the OP that suggests the wife is cheating, nothing at all. He doesn't _know _anything.
> 
> What you're advising is that he doesn't speak to his wife, and instead plays the amateur detective some more - he's already done that, he didn't find anything.


When you don't _know_ anything but you have suspicions is the time to investigate. If you _know_ there's no longer a need to investigate. 

And if you don't see the red flags here it's because you're not looking.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

So here is my recommendation. Approach her about establishing good boundaries around the marriage and a policy of open honesty. In the background be aware but not paranoid about possible red flags. I would describe it as the defensive driver mindset, where you expect things are ok but you keep your eyes open for the young kid on a bicycle who could weave in front of your car.

Boundaries should involve the two of you protecting your marriage from outside threats. Yes, this other guy sent a suggestive message and that is a threat even if your wife has no inclination to cheat. Good boundaries are cutting off avenues or opportunities for outside threats. You don't go out to the bars with your buddies and dance with other women even in innocent fun. Just the appearance of that will be a threat to your marriage because it will upset your wife. Similarly, her receiving suggestive texts is a threat because it upsets you regardless of whatever is or isn't going on. Why allow the threat in? Just kill it, because your marriage is far more valuable than those other things.

Thus, your social media, texting, and real life social activities should be culled of threats. No exes in your social circles. If someone sends a suggestive message like this other guy did, it should be met with a rebuke from your wife or from you so as to shut that person down.

Walls around the marriage to protect it.

Windows inside the marriage to guard against damaging misunderstandings. This means shared passwords and open access to all of your accounts. Not that you both are constantly snooping, but rather you both know you have access any time you want. Your wife guarding her cell phone only makes you worried, and that is bad for the marriage. Much better is the knowledge she could read your emails any time, and you can look through her phone at any time. And, you're both happy if the other person does it because it is a tool to strengthen trust.

Open honesty goes along with that. If she receives a suggestive text, she should tell you about it because it is something which could otherwise be distressing to you. As a team you can deal with it (or she can deal with it immediately by sending a reply that his suggestive text was not appreciated). No secrets, no lies.

As to the defensive driver alertness, I think there is reason for everyone to just be observant but not paranoid. In your case, I would go ahead and look at the phone records going back as far as you can. Her reaction may show fear, or it may be anger. Aside from the phone records I would not snoop any further.

People have different ideas as to what is the right amount of honesty, openness, privacy, etc. Some think it fine to have exes on their Facebook or in their social circles, some (like me) think it unwise. You may find you and your wife have fairly different ideas, and that may be part of the conflict you are in.

MC might be a good idea for you two.


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## allez (May 26, 2015)

Nucking Futs said:


> When you don't _know_ anything but you have suspicions is the time to investigate. If you _know_ there's no longer a need to investigate.
> 
> And if you don't see the red flags here it's because you're not looking.


He's investigated. He found nothing but an old game of poker and a missing corkscrew. He's checked her messages, old and new. He's went through her call records. He's not seen anything that points to her cheating.

I don't see red flags because, going by the information we've been given, there are none.


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

I'll respond later in detail - thanks to everyone. I think we're getting two messages mixed up, though. My wife didn't receive any texts from guys that I'm worried about. I think one of the other replies mentioned that, though.

I think I am overly sensitive, yes. And when you said that after finding one untruth now I'm afraid I've been gullible for the past two decades rings absolutely true. I think I said in my original post that poker is not suspicious, but not wanting to mention it to me is. And you're right, she could have forgotten. I know that. Is it possible that this is the one and only time she's lied? Yes. It's possible. I think I'm so distraught because it was a lie about nothing. So easily done for no good reason. I asked her again why she felt she needed to lie. She reiterated that she didn't want me to hate "Jenny" and she didn't want me to think she was talking about me. I told her that not wanting me to hate "Jenny" wasn't a good enough reason to lie to me and that I am fine with her discussing things about our relationship with her girlfriends as long as she's also discussed the issue with me.

And we do have one another's passwords and frequently use one another's phones. All of it. I've just never felt any need or inclination to look until all of this. She pays and receives all of the bills and records, and I've never batted an eyelash about it. Til now. How do I get the feeling of trust for her back? I want it.

I wish there was some magic wand that could just make me fully trust again.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

Trust is the soil that love grows in. A marriage without trust won't last. You have valid reason to at least be concerned with your wife withholding information from you. Omission of facts is as much lying as directly misleading a person. You at least need to have a good talk with her on the issue and go from there based on her answers and how she responds.

When you have to start questioning everything a spouse does or says it will eat you up. If what has happened to this point truly has been nothing that's great, however, if she can't have a frank discussion with you about it and has hid truths on minor things what happens when something major comes along?


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I would definitely be on high alert about anything else being suspicious. Don't say anything about this anymore to your wife and see if you catch her in anymore lies. I would also consider continuing to monitor her phone. While what you found isn't in itself a problem, that fact that she is lying justifiably makes her suspicious.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

WhiplashWish said:


> I'll respond later in detail - thanks to everyone. I think we're getting two messages mixed up, though. My wife didn't receive any texts from guys that I'm worried about. I think one of the other replies mentioned that, though.
> 
> I think I am overly sensitive, yes. And when you said that after finding one untruth now I'm afraid I've been gullible for the past two decades rings absolutely true. I think I said in my original post that poker is not suspicious, but not wanting to mention it to me is. And you're right, she could have forgotten. I know that. Is it possible that this is the one and only time she's lied? Yes. It's possible. I think I'm so distraught because it was a lie about nothing. So easily done for no good reason. I asked her again why she felt she needed to lie. *She reiterated that she didn't want me to hate "Jenny" *and she didn't want me to think she was talking about me. I told her that not wanting me to hate "Jenny" wasn't a good enough reason to lie to me and that I am fine with her discussing things about our relationship with her girlfriends as long as she's also discussed the issue with me.
> 
> ...


So you would rather compromise your integrity, alter the very foundation of your character and risk me hating you? Illogical.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Here shoudl be your number one response every single time she says things like this:

"How far back are you going?"
Don't you trust me?
I feel like you don't trust me?

your answer should always be "Why is there a reason for me not to trust you?"


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

WhiplashWish said:


> Two weeks ago I e-mailed her to ask for the login information for our cell bill (I'd forgotten it) so I could check to make sure the texts had stopped once she got back stateside since this is what the fraud sites said would happen. In my e-mail to her I just said I wanted the login information and didn't say why. She sent me the information and asked why. I told her I was looking into a couple of things, to which she e-mailed back "Like????" I didn't respond for an hour, and so on her lunch break she marched into where I was working (we work in the same building) and asked me about why I was looking at the phone bill. *She said she thought I trusted her, and now it looked like I didn't. I told her I was looking into the fraudulent number and just wanted to see if there were any other discrepancies in our bill. Then she asks, "How far back are you going?"
> 
> None of that - the "Like????", the hustling into my work space at her earliest opportunity, and the "How far back are you going?" none of that has done anything to bolster my trust in what she says now. I told her as much.* That night I told her that whatever big discussion we needed to have was something we needed to have while I was still willing to have a discussion. I told her that whatever lies or untruths were in our past or present we could work through as long as they were brought up and killed now. I said that there was no way a rational person responded to my request for our login information in the way she did, and I love her and want to clear everything no matter how big or small it is. She broke into tears, said I didn't trust her and there was nothing she could do. She said that the "Like????" was a natural enough response, her coming down to see me was because she was freaked out that I wasn't trusting her, and the "How far back" was because she wanted to know if I thought there was more to worry about than just the time-frame during which she was out of the country. She said there was no "big thing" we needed to discuss; it was a bad reaction on her part, she understood why it looked shady to me, but she also hoped I could understand why she reacted the way she did. I was pretty noncommittal.


If I were you I would do a deep dive on the phone bill. Pull the info from as far back as you can go into a spreadsheet then sort by number then date and time. Anything that just shows up once or twice I'd just discard, but if you find a number with a lot of use to it definitely find out what that number goes to.


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

Pluto2 said:


> I have a different take. She did lie to you. She found it easy to lie to you. It is unlikely that she's not lying about other things, you just don't know what.
> Confront her with what you know and tell her faith has been broken. She lied, and you snooped.
> I understand that snooping may tick some off, but in my experience a healthy relationship does not including lies and deception. So you two do not have a healthy relationship.
> Either you both work to develop trust which is currently non-existent on both sides, or end the relationship.
> ...


We do need to develop that trust again. I just don't know how. 

I've tried to just decide to believe her. I said to her, "I choose to believe you." It doesn't stick, and in hindsight I feel foolish at my naivety thinking it would be that easy to get past. 

I keep having doubts now. The way I've gone about trying to develop trust again is to dig into everything I can to "clear" her. That's been somewhat successful since there is nothing there and I've dug deeply and expansively. But every time I feel like the sunshine is coming out she freaks out that I'm looking at the phone bill or can remember a detail about a cork screw but not anything about human interaction.

I know I've gone overboard. I don't like it. But it's been my (maybe?) misguided way of trying to prove to myself that this is truly what she says: "The only time I've lied to you."


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ok, you were justified to look into things when your gut told you something was off. But you havent found anything, really, and I think you would have if something was going down. At this point, I feel you are being over reactive, and that is all on YOU to take care of. Stop questioning her, she hasnt done anything to warrant this mistrust. She is entitled to vent to her girlfriend if she is annoyed about you or anything else, just as you are with your friends. It seems your reaction was over the top. (I do still support checking into things though, when that instinct hits) Now it us up to you to let it go.


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

Thor said:


> I think what you're experiencing is a bit of the latter, where you've found something dishonest and now you're seeing everything as a potential betrayal. The messages about poker are not suspicious at all. She may not even remember playing poker with those people, and maybe they weren't playing poker but instead were playing blackjack so she didn't recall it when you had your recent discussion.
> 
> You need to stfu about questioning her. You're setting her up to fail in order to prove to yourself she is untrustworthy. And, the way you're doing it is counter productive. If she's not done anything disloyal, she's going to be pissed at you for the way you're questioning her. If she did cheat in some way, she's going to know you're suspicious and so she'll hide any evidence deeper.
> 
> ...


Many of the things you say are spot on. I would say that I'm not trying to set her up to fail. I'm hoping that after enough "right" answers it'll be enough for me. The problem is that the "right" answers aren't coming and it's deepening the pit, not filling the hole. Everything I'm looking to to get some kind of reassurance back just isn't...

What can? Maybe nothing...time? I want it back...


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

WhiplashWish said:


> Have any of you been lied to? How does a relationship fully recover from a lie? Does it? Am I making way more out of this than I should?
> 
> Totally lost here.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


My two cents... PICK YOUR BATTLES. And I'm telling you right now, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

It's not worth destroying your relationship because she was complaining to Jenny about you and she played poker with coworkers.

Clearly she's comfortable telling you white lies and not to minimize but that's all they are. Does she always avoid confrontation with you?

You seem like the type who over reacts.... ALOT. So it explains easily why its so much easier to tell a white lie than to deal with you.

It's not worth her losing respect for you because she thinks your some control freak who spies on her even on the toilet. That's YOUR issue.

Continue your investigation COVERTLY until you are satisfied you have no evidence of infidelity and if you don't get it then LET IT GO.

Accept that: 1) she may very well have cheated on you, 2) you will never be able to prove it, 3) if you can't then you MUST presume innocence.


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

BetrayedDad said:


> My two cents... PICK YOUR BATTLES. And I'm telling you right now, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
> 
> It's not worth destroying your relationship because she was complaining to Jenny about you and she played poker with coworkers.
> 
> ...


I don't care if she was playing poker. That being said, I can't for the life of me figure out why she wouldn't tell me. I'm not the type to over-react. Her primary complaint in our marriage is that I'm too laid back, too nonchalant about what she does and where she goes or what the kids are doing or how they'll get into this or that scrape. I'm pretty chill.

And I think that's the problem. We have no history of big problems, trust issues, anger, infidelity. The biggest thing we've dealt with is chronic not-cleaning on her part. I don't know how to resolve issues well because there have been no big issues to resolve and now that there is something (big or small as it may be) I don't know how to address it well. I think if my posts display desperation and over-reaction, that's probably right, but it's not because I've developed a history of over-reacting with my wife.


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

And I guess you're right about the white lie thing. I guess that's part of the relationship I can accept if I need to. I don't like it, but...well, there it is...


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

WhiplashWish said:


> I don't care if she was playing poker. That being said, I can't for the life of me figure out why she wouldn't tell me.


She probably forgot like you said. I don't remember what I had for lunch last week, let alone the last time I played poker. It's such a minute detail, it just makes you look nuts focusing so much energy on it.



WhiplashWish said:


> I'm not the type to over-react. Her primary complaint in our marriage is that I'm too laid back, too nonchalant about what she does and where she goes or what the kids are doing or how they'll get into this or that scrape. I'm pretty chill.


That's your assessment. You're wife behavior alone paints a very different picture.




WhiplashWish said:


> And I think that's the problem. We have no history of big problems, trust issues, anger, infidelity. The biggest thing we've dealt with is chronic not-cleaning on her part. I don't know how to resolve issues well because there have been no big issues to resolve and now that there is something (big or small as it may be) I don't know how to address it well.


Maybe you have no blow fights because she avoids confrontation?!? I think that's what you are not getting. You BELIEVE you have no issues because she's a confrontation avoider. If she doesn't squawk then in your mind, everything is hunky dory.

She's probably got a galloon of milk sized bottle of issues with you that's she's keeping inside of her. Jenny appears to be one of her outlets. It fits the fact pattern perfectly.



WhiplashWish said:


> I think if my posts display desperation and over-reaction, that's probably right, but it's not because I've developed a history of over-reacting with my wife.


That's all I have to go by, your posts. Unless you have split personality disorder, I doubt you are half as "chill" as you think you are.

My only other piece of advice friend is REALLY REALLY start doing some internal reflection and look at yourself in the mirror before its too late.

Most people like me only do it AFTER the relationship is in the toilet. How you perceive yourself and reality is clearly very much askew.


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

I think that she is a confrontation-avoider. Whenever anything has needed to be said, I'm the one who's brought it up. I need to see if she'll open the fridge to see if there are a bunch of bottles there. Maybe your're right.

As for my self-perception, I'll do some reflection. As I said, my W is the one who's made the call that I'm too laissez-faire, and I've agreed with her. 

Well, 'til now.


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

WhiplashWish said:


> And I guess you're right about the white lie thing. I guess that's part of the relationship I can accept if I need to. I don't like it, but...well, there it is...


They all tell little white lies or half truths, we do the same. Sometimes depending on something that may have happened or was said earlier in the week, they just feel if they told the whole truth it would start an argument, as innocent as the whole truth may be. Dealing with all my issues and secretly checking my wife's text messages I have found that she has lied to me too about stupid trivial things, and it makes no sense to me as to why she would lie. Friends I've talked to about it feel she may be testing me to see if I'm spying on her and trying to bait me into an argument and get me to admit I'm spying for no other reason than to prove to her that I still have trust issues, which I do but I'm not letting her know that.

If you feel the need and it makes you more comfortable to check her messages from time to time, go ahead. But don't get crazy over little trivial BS white lies. It's not worth the stress and aggravation to yourself.


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

I guess you're right. I had a Polyanna view of the marriage where no one ever lied and there were no big issues to tackle.

But that puts me right to the root of it all. 

What is a "white lie" to her? I don't know. Are lies about her past "white lies"? Are lies about whether or not she wants our daughter to enter pageants "white lies"? Does she lie about...Alright, I'm going to stop. That way madness lies.

I don't know where the root of "I don't want you to hate 'Jenny'" is. "Jenny" is my friend, and I know she's taken my wife's side before. I've never blown up and I've done more to encourage their continued friendship than they have themselves.

I don't know where the root of "I don't feel like I can tell you I was playing poker" is (keeping in mind of course that she could have forgotten that. 

I don't know where the root of freaking out about my taking a look at the cell phone records and wondering "how far back" I was going come from. 

Maybe it's all simply the minutiae of life That I shouldn't worry about, the currency of a marriage. 

I'm getting a Shakespeare Sonnet 138 vibe....


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

WhiplashWish said:


> ... And we do have one another's passwords and frequently use one another's phones. All of it. I've just never felt any need or inclination to look until all of this. She pays and receives all of the bills and records, and I've never batted an eyelash about it. Til now. How do I get the feeling of trust for her back? I want it.
> 
> I wish there was some magic wand that could just make me fully trust again.


and



WhiplashWish said:


> We do need to develop that trust again. I just don't know how.
> 
> I've tried to just decide to believe her. I said to her, "I choose to believe you." It doesn't stick, and in hindsight I feel foolish at my naivety thinking it would be that easy to get past.
> 
> ...


 @WhiplashWish, 

You are making a very common mistake, equivocating "trust" with honesty. You DO trust her--you trust her to be dishonest with you because in easy situations, she chose a white lie rather than choosing honesty. In your mind, it seems rational to expect that if she lies over small things, if it were a big thing or a hard thing or a scary thing--she would DEFINITELY lie!

So the solution to this is not necessarily to "develop trust again." You DO trust her. You trust her to lie to you when it's not convenient to be honest!! You trust her to be dishonest! 

What you do NOT trust is her HONESTY!!! And that is because she has not been honest. 

For you to develop trust in her honesty, she would have to actually behave in an HONEST MANNER. So you developed trust in her honesty in the past because you never had reason to question it. If she say XYZ bill was due--it actually was due. If she said she was paying XYZ bill--she actually used the money to pay that bill and didn't hide it somewhere else. If she said she was talking to ___ she was where she told you she would be talking with ____. See how that builds trust IN HER HONESTY? But now there have been at least two instances where she had an opportunity to be honest in a small thing, and instead she chose to be DISHONEST. 

I get the idea about not wanting you to hate "Jenny" because if you are the over-reactive type maybe you'd say "You can't be friends with Jenny because she spoke negatively about me." Maybe that's a fear of hers (who knows?). BUT, if she has a complaint that she has to verbalize to a friend, as your spouse and someone who is intimately known and knows YOU...she should make sure you are completely aware of that complaint first!! In other words, if she has an issue with you, go to you and DEAL WITH IT rather than talking behind your back. Going behind your back is not necessarily dishonest in and of itself, but it's not the way to build closeness in a marriage. HOWEVER, if you do go behind your spouse's back, and then your spouse finds out and asks you about it specifically...it may be human nature to be defensive and lie, but if you do, then you have just given your spouse REASON to not trust your HONESTY. If you feel defensive, but even in the face of anger you respond with honesty, then you have just given your spouse REASON TO TRUST YOUR HONESTY because you were able to tell the truth when it wasn't "easy."

Likewise for the whole poker thing. She may think you don't like poker or you're going to yell at her for playing with people. But if she plays poker despite suspecting you don't like it, and then you find out and ask her specifically about it....it may be human nature to be defensive and lie, but if you do, then you have just given your spouse REASON to NOT TRUST your HONESTY. If you feel defensive, but even in the face of anger you respond with honesty, then you have just given your spouse REASON TO TRUST YOUR HONESTY because you were able to tell the truth when it wasn't "easy."


So in summary, you feel like you do because she has not been TRUST-WORTHY. When she acts in a way where her words and actions match, you trusted her. When she acts in a way where her words do not match her action you do not trust her honesty because she is not BEING honest! 

Now granted I think going into PI Mode for weeks on end is a bit over-sensitive and over-reacting. I'm not diminishing your side of this. But don't shoulder what is her burden to bear! If she wants to be trusted FOR HER HONESTY...she has to be honest, be trust-worthy, and tell the truth in little things--otherwise if she can't be honest in little things when it's a little hard, chances are huge that she can't be honest in bigger things when it's harder and scarier.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

OP, career woman here, 37 years married (first time marriage for the both of us). You need to have a "come to Jesus" talk with your wife. You need to set boundaries, such as: no trash talk about each other to friends or family members. Trash talking is humiliating to the spouse. Yes, your friends and family members will talk about you & will diminish your standing as a couple. If the trash talk is discovered by the spouse (via media or conversation), it will definitely break trust. You need to have transparent accounts with each other. Knowing that the other spouse may be able to see your data, will prevent each other from this type of activity.

Write down what bothers you and have your wife write down what bothers her. It may come to an amicable conclusion if both of you can discuss what bothers you in your marriage right now. You might end up shedding some friends or family members to keep your marriage healthy. Good luck!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

WhiplashWish said:


> I don't care if she was playing poker. That being said, I can't for the life of me figure out why she wouldn't tell me.


So she's with a few coworkers years ago and played poker briefly. Maybe it was a very un-serious game, so she didn't think of it as playing poker. It was just joking and chatting. Or, the plan was to play poker and she sent the message but they hadn't started yet. Then the cards came out and they played 21 or Uno instead.

There are endless such possibilities. You are presuming her text was literally true, and presuming the context of the situation was such she'd remember it years later when you bring up the topic of poker in conversation. It was years ago. Come on, nobody can remember every little thing they did!

If you're going to test her honesty it has to be something a lot more solid than this. But your tests are going to create far more problems than they solve.

She's going to have said something in the past or in the future which is not literally and 100% true. Guaranteed.


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## emmasmith (Aug 11, 2016)

I think what you are experiencing is a bit of the latter where you have found something dishonest. Now you are seeing everything as a potential betrayal.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

How does that saying go? You're making a mountain out of a mow hill.

If you have nothing to worry about because you haven't found nothing, why the hell are you inviting trouble into your life. People lie, most of the time they are just little white lies or lies that have no terrible consequences. 

Don't you ever say white lies? If you say no, you are lying right there. Let it go dude! You are being irrational. 

Like another poster stated. Just because we are a couple doesn't mean we are not independent human beings or something to that effect. If I were your spouse, I would be extremely upset over your irrational mistrust. :wtf:


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

I had a talk with her. Fully put everything out there.

I told her it was tough to believe that the only time she'd lied to me was over not wanting to make "Jenny" look bad in my eyes. I told her that it seemed odd that in 17 years of marriage that was the one event she felt she needed to lie about. Break a 17-year streak for that. Told her that I understood white lies sometimes tend to be easier than the truth for some people, and I get that.
She maintains that it is the only time she's lied.

I told her her reaction to me looking at the cell bill was not that of someone with nothing to hide.
She said it was a poor reaction on her part and there's nothing to hide.

I told her it was odd she could remember the minutiae of a trip, but not a poker game.
She says she doesn't remember the poker game, but does remember a corkscrew (hmm...that doesn't sound the way I intended...).

I told her I read her texts from years ago. After expressing a little surprise and some happiness that the phone had been found she said that my reading the texts especially without her knowing - should have helped me understand that there really is nothing to hide. She then chided me for paranoia, but then said she understood since she'd lied to my face. She gets it, she understands I need a period to reset and adjust and evaluate and reassure. She says it just shouldn't last too much longer but in the meantime go wild.

She then told me that in the years we've been together she's had faith in me. Despite attempts by coworkers and others to get with me, despite my being in another state for 3 years while my wife and I were dating so I could score my law degree. Despite a friend of mine telling her, "He's never been faithful to anyone, why do you think he'll be faithful to you?" (great friend, glad he's out of my life) Despite all that, she's believed me. When I'd go out celebrating a victory in court with female coworkers or even a single coworker she has always chosen to believe me, to have faith in me. 

And then she said she's asking for that kind of faith.

And I'll give it to her. 

I think it's tough because once someone just blatantly lies to you, that changes things no matter how big or small the matter. My reaction may have been overblown, but I'd never believed she would have just flat out lied to me - about anything. Avoiding the truth, not saying something when maybe you could/should, those things are one thing. Blatantly lying to your spouse's face is another.

Have I lied? Not like that. I've "lied" by omission, I guess. Not told her I bought another ps4 game, not told her I played 18 when I had planned on only playing 9, stuff like that. But I've never been asked a question by her and lied to her face.

Anyhow, what she said about trusting me and asking me to have faith in her as she has had faith in me despite my pre-married reputation and at chances to do x, y, or z, has convicted me and convinced me that I need to extend the same faith to her.

It was just tough. The shield came up. I'm trying to put it down.

Thanks for all the responses, both critical and supportive. This is a good place to come and talk.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

WhiplashWish said:


> I had a talk with her. Fully put everything out there.
> 
> I told her it was tough to believe that the only time she'd lied to me was over not wanting to make "Jenny" look bad in my eyes. I told her that it seemed odd that in 17 years of marriage that was the one event she felt she needed to lie about. Break a 17-year streak for that. Told her that I understood white lies sometimes tend to be easier than the truth for some people, and I get that.
> She maintains that it is the only time she's lied.
> ...


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

I took a look at the phone bill as you suggested, back to 2013. Didn't find anything that wasn't supposed to be there except for the scam thing I mentioned earlierr. I guess I could go further, but that would mean contacting our previous carrier and seeing if we can get a copy of the bills from them. I don't know how long non-current carriers keep bills...


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

WhiplashWish said:


> I took a look at the phone bill as you suggested, back to 2013. Didn't find anything that wasn't supposed to be there except for the scam thing I mentioned earlierr. I guess I could go further, but that would mean contacting our previous carrier and seeing if we can get a copy of the bills from them. I don't know how long non-current carriers keep bills...


Dude, you caught her lying, she said she had faith in you and asked you for the same kind of faith in her, and you're giving it to her? :surprise:


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

I am - I haven't found anything but the lie. I don't know what else to do or what I should do in the absence of evidence. I've been through every piece of electronic evidence available - her work e-mails, personal e-mails, facebook, texts, all of it. Phone records, bank records. Just nothing. I don't know what else I can do other than work on trusting her.

I do like the picture you put up, however.


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## allez (May 26, 2015)

WhiplashWish said:


> I am - I haven't found anything but the lie. I don't know what else to do or what I should do in the absence of evidence. I've been through every piece of electronic evidence available - her work e-mails, personal e-mails, facebook, texts, all of it. Phone records, bank records. Just nothing. I don't know what else I can do other than work on trusting her.
> 
> I do like the picture you put up, however.



In my opinion, she should leave you. At least until you can sort out your own paranoia. 

The fact that you've done all that and still are questioning whether you should trust her, it's a joke. What kind of relationship is that?


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## allez (May 26, 2015)

Nucking Futs said:


> Dude, you caught her lying, she said she had faith in you and asked you for the same kind of faith in her, and you're giving it to her? :surprise:


I genuinely feel like you're trying to stoke his paranoia. 

She lied about talking to her friend about him, after they'd had some kind of falling out, she's every right to talk to her friends, and if she didn't want him to know about it, it's not because she was having an affair, or anything else sinister...it was because she'd been *****ing about him, probably. 

She also lied, or forgot about, a game of poker from years ago. 

We're not talking about a women who's been caught with messages from other guys on her phone, she's not been seen out on dates with other people, she's not moaning some other guys name in her sleep...well if she had been doing these things I'd have expected them to have been mentioned in the OP. 

The problem here is with the OP, not with the wife.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

allez said:


> I genuinely feel like you're trying to stoke his paranoia.
> 
> She lied about talking to her friend about him, after they'd had some kind of falling out, she's every right to talk to her friends, and if she didn't want him to know about it, it's not because she was having an affair, or anything else sinister...it was because she'd been *****ing about him, probably.
> 
> ...


It's not paranoia to distrust a proven liar. In fact, in my opinion it's foolish to blindly trust _anyone_, much less a proven liar.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Personally, I find your continued paranoia a huge nuisance and WAY over the top.

You act as though it's a damned sin JUST because she chose to have a PRIVATE conversation with her friend when she was agitated with you. You act as though she doesn't have a right to vent to her friend and she should have come to you. Well guess what? Women DO vent about their lives and their kids and their husbands and their homes and their jobs.

*Big friggen deal. *Get the hell over it.

And then you start interrogating her after you read the text, like some bumbling fool who thinks he's just _so_ clever, trying to get her to 'confess' to what amounts to a whole lot of NOTHING.

After that, you lose your mind completely and start acting like some crazed maniac going through every single text and email you can get your hands on and make a big deal about some poker game she joined with coworkers a couple years ago?

SERIOUSLY?????

And you once AGAIN act the paranoid fool who thinks he's OH so clever and start interrogating her about the last time she played poker and again, she didn't tell you (or forgot - you don't make it clear) about some poker game one night with coworkers. 

No wonder she lies to you. I had to deal with someone JUST like you - a paranoid fool who continually spied on me and made my life MISERABLE because he couldn't find anything and continually tried to take minor crap and turn it into SOMETHING. *Just like you're doing*. Let me tell you something - just like your wife, I started finding it better to lie to my paranoid ex too because I was SICK of being put on trial all the time for having done NOTHING wrong.

You'd best be getting your crap together and stop the paranoia. it just makes you look like a desperate fool. Been there and done that.


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## allez (May 26, 2015)

Nucking Futs said:


> It's not paranoia to distrust a proven liar. In fact, in my opinion it's foolish to blindly trust _anyone_, much less a proven liar.


To quote Whiplash Wish - "I haven't found anything but the lie. I don't know what else to do or what I should do in the absence of evidence. I've been through every piece of electronic evidence available - her work e-mails, personal e-mails, facebook, texts, all of it. Phone records, bank records. Just nothing."


The fact that you're referring to his wife as a proven liar, based on the information at hand, says to me that you have trust issues of your own, and are reflecting them on to this problem.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

WhiplashWish said:


> I took a look at the phone bill as you suggested, back to 2013. Didn't find anything that wasn't supposed to be there except for the scam thing I mentioned earlierr. I guess I could go further, but that would mean contacting our previous carrier and seeing if we can get a copy of the bills from them. I don't know how long non-current carriers keep bills...


Holy cow, dude.... LET.. IT.... GO!!


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

allez said:


> The problem here is with the OP, not with the wife.


Lying to a spouse is a problem with her. Not with me. I'll own my part of the current situation, and I have, but you've a sick idea of a marriage if you think lying is a healthy or acceptable thing for a relationship.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

allez said:


> To quote Whiplash Wish - "I haven't found anything but the lie. I don't know what else to do or what I should do in the absence of evidence. I've been through every piece of electronic evidence available - her work e-mails, personal e-mails, facebook, texts, all of it. Phone records, bank records. Just nothing."
> 
> 
> The fact that you're referring to his wife as a proven liar, based on the information at hand, says to me that you have trust issues of your own, and are reflecting them on to this problem.


Pull your head out of your ass. Referring to a proven liar as a proven liar doesn't tell you anything about me. Trying to dismiss this issue because you don't think the lies that were caught were that bad means you have honesty issues. 

Bottom line, you think it's ok to lie to your SO, that makes you a liar in my book, and your SO should not trust your word.


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You act as though it's a damned sin JUST because she chose to have a PRIVATE conversation with her friend when she was agitated with you. You act as though she doesn't have a right to vent to her friend and she should have come to you. Well guess what? Women DO vent about their lives and their kids and their husbands and their homes and their jobs.
> 
> And then you start interrogating her after you read the text, like some bumbling fool who thinks he's just _so_ clever, trying to get her to 'confess' to what amounts to a whole lot of NOTHING.
> 
> ...


If you'd read the posts (seems doubtful), you'd clearly see that I have no problem with her talking to her friend and even encourage it. The problem is the lie.


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## allez (May 26, 2015)

WhiplashWish said:


> Lying to a spouse is a problem with her. Not with me. I'll own my part of the current situation, and I have, but you've a sick idea of a marriage if you think lying is a healthy or acceptable thing for a relationship.


No, you are definitely the problem, not her.

I have problems in my own marriage, of course I do, I'm not on this forum because my marriage is perfect. I wouldn't ever be in a marriage/relationship with someone as paranoid as you though. You'll drive her away, or push her to do something, that she basically might as well be doing anyway, cos you won't accept that she isn't, despite all your detective work.




Nucking Futs said:


> Pull your head out of your ass. Referring to a proven liar as a proven liar doesn't tell you anything about me. Trying to dismiss this issue because you don't think the lies that were caught were that bad means you have honesty issues.
> 
> Bottom line, you think it's ok to lie to your SO, that makes you a liar in my book, and your SO should not trust your word.


There's lying and then there's lying. 

Did you eat a whole jar of nutella today while I was out shopping?
Lie 1 - No I just ate a couple of spoonfuls.

Did you eat a whole jar of nutella today spread onto that girl from your works bare ass while I was out shopping?
Lie 2 - No I just ate a couple of spoonfuls on my own while I watched Always Sunny In Philadelphia.

Lie 1, is a lie by definition but it isn't a big deal. It's a soft lie, a white lie. It's not said in order to hide anything sinister.
Lie 2, nothing needs to be defined, this is obviously a big deal. 

If you believe that a lie is a lie is a lie, and that lie 1 and 2 are equally duplicitous, then you have problems. They're not the same, in the same way that the Sydney Opera House is a building, Edinburgh Castle is a building, they're not the same.


I'll try to pull my head out my ass, but I hope you manage to work out your own trust issues, they're making you an angrier person than the situation necessitated.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

WhiplashWish said:


> Lying to a spouse is a problem with her. Not with me. I'll own my part of the current situation, and I have, but you've a sick idea of a marriage if you think lying is a healthy or acceptable thing for a relationship.


Is there something in your past which has made you hyper sensitive to dishonesty? Were you cheated on by a previous partner? Do you have a parent or friend who committed major lies? Do you work in a field where you work with sociopaths or criminals?

While your basic premise is basically understandable, you seem overly vigilant. No, your wife shouldn't have lied to you. But the lie was of a minor nature about a minor issue. So, yes, a lie. But not indicative of infidelity. You've done all the investigation needed to prove she isn't engaged in deeper lies.


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

Thor said:


> Is there something in your past which has made you hyper sensitive to dishonesty? Were you cheated on by a previous partner? Do you have a parent or friend who committed major lies? Do you work in a field where you work with sociopaths or criminals?
> 
> While your basic premise is basically understandable, you seem overly vigilant. No, your wife shouldn't have lied to you. But the lie was of a minor nature about a minor issue. So, yes, a lie. But not indicative of infidelity. You've done all the investigation needed to prove she isn't engaged in deeper lies.


In the past I've been a cheater to my girlfriends - frequently (what my friend said to my then fiancee and later wife was true), though never to my spouse. I have never cheated on her. To my knowledge deception was not perpetrated on me or my loved ones by my friends or family to any extent I became aware of.

I am an attorney so yes, I've worked with sociopaths and criminals in the past as I interned with the DA's office during school (though now I'm a constitutional attorney, so yeah, I still work with sociopaths and criminals).

For me the issue is (I think) that to this point I've taken everything she's done and said at face value with full trust. I've never questioned anything. The first time in 17 years I've ever looked at a cell bill or bank statement was because of this, if that gives you some idea of the level of trust I've had in her.

And that's maybe the problem. Confronted with a lie, I'm wondering if I've been a sucker for years. I've been the opposite of vigilant for two decades and never felt the need to be vigilant. It never occurred to me that lying would be a part of our relationship. So, confronted with it, I'm...ill equipped to deal with it.


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

Allez,

I've owned up to my own problem in this situation. I don't like what it's caused me to feel or do. But not affirming that lying to your spouse is a problem? I guess that's just a point you and I will have to agree to disagree about.


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## allez (May 26, 2015)

WhiplashWish said:


> Allez,
> *
> I've owned up to my own problem in this situation. I don't like what it's caused me to feel or do*. But not affirming that lying to your spouse is a problem? I guess that's just a point you and I will have to agree to disagree about.


I believe you, I also believe you want to trust your wife. What you're doing isn't healthy though. 

I thought you had taken it too far even before you went on to mention that you'd gone through her personal email, work email and facebook messages. 

Does your wife know you post on here? Because if not, then you're lying to her by omission. 

Or does she know the full extent of your frequent cheating on previous partners? Because, to me, that's far more pertinent to "lying in your relationship", than her not telling you about a poker game or a private chat about you to her friend.


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

allez said:


> I believe you, I also believe you want to trust your wife. What you're doing isn't healthy though.
> 
> I thought you had taken it too far even before you went on to mention that you'd gone through her personal email, work email and facebook messages.
> 
> ...


I told her that I was getting opinions on forums because I desperately want to get back the feeling I had. She didn't ask about it, nor did she seem interested or threatened. She's more interested in me doing what I feel I need to do and get past it, but she's very clear that if it takes much longer then we need to seek counseling.

And yes, she knows I cheated on my girlfriends from the opening of high school through college. She knows I cheated frequently on a girl I dated for four years in college. She's heard it from me, from my exes, and from that other friend of mine who warned her. In one of my posts above, I mentioned what she told me about that during our discussion a couple of nights ago.


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## giddiot (Jun 28, 2015)

WhiplashWish said:


> In the past I've been a cheater to my girlfriends - frequently (what my friend said to my then fiancee and later wife was true), though never to my spouse. I have never cheated on her. To my knowledge deception was not perpetrated on me or my loved ones by my friends or family to any extent I became aware of.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I would have done the same thing you did because I did the same thing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WhiplashWish (Mar 20, 2017)

giddiot said:


> I would have done the same thing you did because I did the same thing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And how did it turn out?


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## giddiot (Jun 28, 2015)

WhiplashWish said:


> And how did it turn out?


Well given it was 20+ years ago and I only got suspicious in recent years, I just let it go, after driving myself crazy trying to find out. I had red flags but in the time it happened there wasn't social media or cell phones to even track like you can today. But I know how you feel.


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