# Life after divorce and "other" relationships



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

For a man who was always living at the top of his game the end of my marriage turned me into a doormat, I was so tired of arguing to a brick wall I shut down and just let things happen. I have been divorced for some time and recognized right away how I had become passive in my relationships, I'm talking family, friends, co workers and employees. Now I have become very direct, to the point of intolerance, I'm not belligerent, mean or insulting, I just won't stand for the BS I use to just ignore. 

Examples....I bicycle with a club, recently 7 of us went out of state to do a ride, stayed at a hotel. We selected a start time for our ride and I was right on time, as was one other guy, ten minutes later two others show up, then we get a text from one of the others they are just leaving the hotel, which meant another 30 minute wait. I said I'm leaving and rode the entire day by myself, and was happy about it. BUT...I upset my friends.

....BIL had knee replacement, sister comes to my house and tells me "you need to come mow our lawn for the next month", I simply laughed and told her there's no reason she can't mow it herself. 

....On the rare occasion I think I need a girlfriend and go out on some dates I focus on if I could tolerate her long term or not, and yes I mean tolerate. Isn't that terrible?

Anyway....just wondering how being divorced has changed others in how they handle their relationships, or have I gone to the extreme.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Cooper said:


> For a man who was always living at the top of his game the end of my marriage turned me into a doormat, I was so tired of arguing to a brick wall I shut down and just let things happen. I have been divorced for some time and recognized right away how I had become passive in my relationships, I'm talking family, friends, co workers and employees. Now I have become very direct, to the point of intolerance, I'm not belligerent, mean or insulting, I just won't stand for the BS I use to just ignore.
> 
> Examples....I bicycle with a club, recently 7 of us went out of state to do a ride, stayed at a hotel. We selected a start time for our ride and I was right on time, as was one other guy, ten minutes later two others show up, then we get a text from one of the others they are just leaving the hotel, which meant another 30 minute wait. I said I'm leaving and rode the entire day by myself, and was happy about it. BUT...I upset my friends.
> 
> ...


my advice is to use some tact with your new attitude.

sil: I'd like to help out with your lawn but I have a lot on my plate. why can't you mow it? maybe a neighborhood kid could help out and you could pay him.

being hypersensitive to if you can stomach someone is not going to help you find a good partner everybody including yourself has some flaws that you kind of have to accept.


good luck.


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## TheLyonKyng (Jan 14, 2017)

Divorce can make you cold. But, you just have to remember that life does go on. I have had to learn how to not take out my frustrations with my former marriage on others. I had to talk it out with a therapist and find ways to not let the anger win. By me allowing myself to remain in a constant state of anger only allows my ex to win and find validation in her insane lies about my character. 

You can defend yourself without having to be brash about it. Setting boundaries really helps to protect yourself while dealing with others. 

Good luck on your journey.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

I see nothing wrong with the bike ride thing. Being late is rude, and getting butthurt because you didn't wait for them is laughable. 

Lawn mowing situation could have easily been handled with more tact, but if she's generally presumptuous/pushy like that, I like the laugh in her face approach. 

On dating, I have decided that I cannot tolerate living with another person ever again. I have a long term GF that feels the same way, which works out great.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You are now holding people accountable. That's definitely something I did more of after my divorce and still do. It weeds out the types of people I don't need in my life.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

This is the OP, thanks for the replies.

Firstly I'm not talking about peoples faults, to me faults are things that can't be helped, I'm talking about peoples actions that are simply thoughtless or inconsiderate toward others. I am an incredibly helpful person, I get many calls that start out with "hey Don, can you help….." and mostly I say yes because I can. But the people that can do for themselves, yet because of their lack of effort or their poor planning think it's OK to inconvenience me just isn't going to happen any longer. 

I do believe I'm tactful, but think when a line is crossed you need to speak up, and that is something I had quit doing in my personal life and realized it was filtering into my professional life as well. I don't want to be that person that suffers away in silence while others actions and agendas dictate how my day goes. Again I'm talking of others willful acts that affect me in a negative way, that's what I refuse to put up with any longer.

And by the way…..I am mowing my sisters lawn, which takes nearly five hours. I'm doing it for my BIL's benefit, he would do mine if needed. What bothered me is my sisters typical approach of "you need to do this because I can't", she an able bodied woman who could easily mow there lawn, but she is also a lazy ass and has been her entire life. My BIL is OK, he takes care of the lawn and I know it would have bothered him to see it go to hell if left up to my sister to mow, so I am mowing it to help him out.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

You don't have tact. Sorry. 
There is nothing wrong with calling people out on their bs, in fact I think it's better people do this. I always appreciated when people called me out. But do it in a nice way. Because when you don't... it's you who has the anger problem, it's you that is a jerk, it's not them and their behavior. Which is the opposite of what your goal should be. 

Another thing... that comment on being able to tolerate a date sticks out to me. It's just not nice. Don't let the divorce harden you. People are human, people make mistakes, stupid mistakes, but you have to learn patience and forgiveness, and let things go. People do the best they can.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I am probably much like you OP. For much of my marriage I was a doormat and gave into everything. Nothing in my life was for me, everything was for her and the "family". What position I had a work, where I worked, where I lived and even what car I drove. All money was controlled by her as well as where we went on vacation and how we celebrated holidays.I did this under the foolish notion that if I gave all she would love me. She didn't she just cheated and left me. 

Coming out of the marriage fog I realized that you can't be happy if all you do is compromise. So I decided I would live my life by my rules from then on and I do. Possibly taking it a bit extreme as I am now unwilling to compromise. People who treat me bad are gone. I have my dream house and dream truck, take vacations where I want and finally was able to promote at work.

I have had a female poster here point out that with my attitude now I probably wouldn't make a good husband and I agree. I do however have a girlfriend and I am ok with not marrying so long as I can live my life the way I want.

I don't think you are wrong in any way. I think you're just like me and deciding to live life on your terms. Glad to hear it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I'm not divorced so take this with a grain of salt. I am 53 years old, been married 21 years and the kids are in high school and jr high. Maybe because of my age or the stages of the kid's lives etc etc but I have been reevaluating my thoughts and values etc on relationships and marriages etc. 

I did not used to feel this way in my younger days but I am getting to the point where I believe that marriage in today's western world is primarily for providing a legally protected environment for raising minor children. If you are not going to rearing minor children, there's really not much benefit to getting married. 

If you are bearing and raising young children, you are going to have to make some concessions and compromises and you are going to have to put up with a certain degree of other people's BS. Sorry, that's just a fact of life. If you are married and doing your due diligence in raising babies to adulthood, you are going to have to suck it up and put up with some other people's crap. Everyone is going to have to drawn their own line in the sand on how much crap they will tolerate. Some people obviously will more than others and some fly the coop the moment they have to change their first diaper. 

If you don't have children, don't intend to, or if they are legal adults - the world really doesn't care what you do and as long as you aren't a criminal causing harm or a deadbeat living off the system, it probably doesn't matter what you do with your life. 

There are a certain number of men that need a "Wife Appliance" that cooks and cleans and makes sure he has clean underwear and socks, and keeps their sperm tanks drained. 

And there are a certain number of women that need a "Husband Appliance" that brings home the paycheck, pays the bills, patches the roof, changes the oil, mows the lawn and kills spiders. 

But for men that can feed themselves and pick up their own socks and are OK with either bringing home an occasional FWB or having a GF that does her own thing much of the time as well, or simply 'take matter into his own hand'. He doesn't need a Wife Appliance and can basically live his own life as he wants. 

And same for women that can kill their own spiders and can manage to at least take the car to Jiffy Lube. If they can live without a Husband Appliance, they also can pretty much live their own lives as they see fit. 

In large part, when you get right down to it, relationships whether they be romantic, platonic, family, work relationships etc etc are all about putting up with someone else's crap and about how willing are you to do that. 

The people that have a high need for the 'Applience' and high a tolerance for taking crap, are basically always going to be in a relationship. Those are the people that remarry for the 3rd time a few weeks after the 2nd divorce. 

And there are some that have very little need for an Appliance and a low tolerance for other people's crap and those are going to be the ones that either never marry or are single for years and years and years after their divorce. 

In the end, relationships are about tolerating other people's crap.


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## KrisAmiss (May 1, 2017)

Hmm, another data point on my stay married/get divorced puzzle. Men, if they do decide to take me out, will be bitter.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

KrisAmiss said:


> Hmm, another data point on my stay married/get divorced puzzle. Men, if they do decide to take me out, will be bitter.


That's not necessarily true and it is certainly isn't a fair assumption. 

Some men will be downright thrilled and elated for a chance to get out and date again. 

I'm not sure where you are even getting the bitter from. Nothing anyone has said has indicated any bitterness per se. Just that they have reached a point where they won't put up with other people's crap like they did in the past. 

That is not bitterness. That is learning, developing and evolving.


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## KrisAmiss (May 1, 2017)

This is my new gf. I tolerate her so much.

If it's not bitterness, it's glass half empty and soon to evaporate.

Certainly it's reasonable to think you have a certain personality of giving and people might take advantage of that. I certainly do. I do wonder if I'd just attract the same kind and in the end, what's the difference? Divorce will cost $ but I might get more sex in the long run.

idk. I like relationships. Maybe I give too much, but when I'm in one, I'm not tracking how much I give and how much I get. That's love, imo.


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## Sly Fox (Jun 6, 2017)

*Re: Life after divorce and &quot;other&quot; relationships*



Cooper said:


> What bothered me is my sisters typical approach of "you need to do this because I can't", she an able bodied woman who could easily mow there lawn, but she is also a lazy ass and has been her entire life. My BIL is OK, he takes care of the lawn and I know it would have bothered him to see it go to hell if left up
> to my sister to mow, so I am mowing it to help him out.


I would be just as bothered if one of my siblings talked to me this way. She should have politely asked if you can help mow the lawn, without the expectations you 'need' to do it. So the initial response you gave her was still fine based on her lack of manners. You could have declined a little more nicely, but I totally understand the frustration when someone talks down to you like they are ordering you. Any of my sisters do that to me, and I would put them in their place quickly.

Having said that, you are an amazing BIL. There is no way in hell I would ever mow any of my siblings lawns, let alone their spouses! But they would never ask something like this anyway, so I guess it shows the high sense of entitlement your sister has.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

katiecrna said:


> You don't have tact. Sorry.
> There is nothing wrong with calling people out on their bs, in fact I think it's better people do this. I always appreciated when people called me out. But do it in a nice way. Because when you don't... it's you who has the anger problem, it's you that is a jerk, it's not them and their behavior. Which is the opposite of what your goal should be.
> 
> Another thing... that comment on being able to tolerate a date sticks out to me. It's just not nice. Don't let the divorce harden you. People are human, people make mistakes, stupid mistakes, but you have to learn patience and forgiveness, and let things go. People do the best they can.


OK, maybe I have become a jerk, maybe I'm having trouble walking the line between extremes. Your comment I highlighted sums up my feelings though, it should read "people SHOULD do the best they can", my lose of tolerance is with the people that don't try and don't care how it affects others. 

As for dating/relationships I will admit without a doubt that is my baggage, it's not just from a bad marriage but a lifetime of dealing with people that have disappointed me. I am just out of energy in that area.


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## KrisAmiss (May 1, 2017)

You are correct, Mr. Cooper. Sadly, on both sides of our family, we have people all too willing to let us do everything for them like your sister, so I totally get it. Some people will take into forever and wonder why you don't want to hang out. Have you read the Boundaries books?

Anyone who would mow a lawn like that deserves a tolerable woman. I hope some day she cracks your bitter shell.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

KrisAmiss said:


> This is my new gf. I tolerate her so much.
> 
> If it's not bitterness, it's glass half empty and soon to evaporate.
> 
> .


I did not interpret it that way at all. 

I do not think Cooper is bitter. At least nothing he has said thus far has shown what I would call bitterness. 

His use of the word "tolerate" in this context does not indicate any bitterness to me. It may just be a level of truth, reality and bluntness that we may not be used to in polite society. 

People may not like to hear this but the truth and reality is that dating is an interview and probationary process. It is a process where we get know each other and learn each other's values and objectives and tolerances and see if they jive with our own. It is just like a job interview where we see if the other person's skill-sets, work ethics, values and character matches the position we are looking to fill. 

That position could be anything from drinking buddy, bowling partner, ONS, FWB, casual Saturday night dancing partner to LTR, spouse or someone we want to having more children with and raise another family with. 

And yes, the first step in that is asking the question- is this person someone I can TOLERATE having in my life?

Cooper wasn't being bitter. He was just telling it like it is.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Cooper wasn't being bitter. He was just telling it like it is.




His patience and understanding is running out. His threshold for mistakes, or BS is very low. 
I don't think it's bitter but it's harsh. Instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt, he draws a line of acceptable behavior and when it's crossed then he is done. It's harsh. His behavior is not... patient, understanding, kind, benefit of the doubt. It's black and white. He has became hardened.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

oldshirt said:


> I did not interpret it that way at all.
> 
> I do not think Cooper is bitter. At least nothing he has said thus far has shown what I would call bitterness.
> 
> ...


Thanks oldshirt, it's nice to know someone can separate reality from preconceived social norms. I read so much on these sites about tolerance and compromise and while I agree there needs to be some of both there gets to be a point where enough is enough. I start off thinking everyone is doing there best, when I see they're not my tolerance is done. Why should I just keep accepting at my sacrifice? I am lucky and have some very good people in my life, people that are decent and dependable, two traits that seem simple but but carry a depth that eludes most people.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

katiecrna said:


> His patience and understanding is running out. His threshold for mistakes, or BS is very low.
> I don't think it's bitter but it's harsh. Instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt, he draws a line of acceptable behavior and when it's crossed then he is done. It's harsh. His behavior is not... patient, understanding, kind, benefit of the doubt. It's black and white. He has became hardened.


Honestly, I think we could use a little more harshness in US society. If more people were regularly called out / ostracized for selfish BS behavior, this world would be a better place. I don't want to live in a world where everyone gets a participation trophy.

I too am done compromising in my personal life. I have to do it at work, and I need a break at the end of a long day.


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## bkyln309 (Feb 1, 2015)

Cooper said:


> For a man who was always living at the top of his game the end of my marriage turned me into a doormat, I was so tired of arguing to a brick wall I shut down and just let things happen. I have been divorced for some time and recognized right away how I had become passive in my relationships, I'm talking family, friends, co workers and employees. Now I have become very direct, to the point of intolerance, I'm not belligerent, mean or insulting, I just won't stand for the BS I use to just ignore.
> 
> Examples....I bicycle with a club, recently 7 of us went out of state to do a ride, stayed at a hotel. We selected a start time for our ride and I was right on time, as was one other guy, ten minutes later two others show up, then we get a text from one of the others they are just leaving the hotel, which meant another 30 minute wait. I said I'm leaving and rode the entire day by myself, and was happy about it. BUT...I upset my friends.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have alot of healing to do. Sounds like you have major anger issues. Sounds like you are taking it out on those close to you. Remember you will need your family and friends at some point. You dont want to run them off because right now you are angry at life. Seek counseling so you have a chance of maintaining and keeping healthy relationships.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

bkyln309 said:


> Sounds like you have alot of healing to do. Sounds like you have major anger issues. Sounds like you are taking it out on those close to you. Remember you will need your family and friends at some point. You dont want to run them off because right now you are angry at life. Seek counseling so you have a chance of maintaining and keeping healthy relationships.


Maybe I'm being biased but honestly I don't have anger issues, I have never been an angry person and have never been one to hold on to anger. It's more of a reckoning that I changed and didn't like the way I had changed, I'm not looking for things to call people out on, I'm not looking to argue to get my way, I'm just refusing to be a doormat.


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## googoodoll (Mar 6, 2016)

Cooper said:


> OK, maybe I have become a jerk, maybe I'm having trouble walking the line between extremes. Your comment I highlighted sums up my feelings though, it should read "people SHOULD do the best they can", my lose of tolerance is with the people that don't try and don't care how it affects others.
> 
> As for dating/relationships I will admit without a doubt that is my baggage, it's not just from a bad marriage but a lifetime of dealing with people that have disappointed me. I am just out of energy in that area.


You should be! Don't 'put up' with someone. I mean it. If you want to be with someone, you'll know. If that feeling is mutual, you can. You've been through the whole relationship shebang, so you don't need anyone now. You're fine on your own. If someone can add value, great! If not, too bad. It's either a **** YES! or a no:

https://markmanson.net/****-yes

_Edit: well, that didn't work. I think you know what the four letter word is. Put it in the url. _


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## googoodoll (Mar 6, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I did not interpret it that way at all.
> 
> I do not think Cooper is bitter. At least nothing he has said thus far has shown what I would call bitterness.
> 
> ...


So to me it's even more than tolerate. The question is: do I really WANT this person in my life. Am I eager to spend time with them, whether it's as a drinking buddy, bowling partner, ONS, FWB, whatever. If I'm not eager to spend time with someone (I apply this rule in daily life when it comes to friends etc.) I don't. It's such a relief. Sometimes I'll contact someone I haven't spoken to in ages to meet up, because I feel like hanging out with them. I'll choose them over my mother, for instance. It doesn't matter. I'm not going to visit my mom because society tells me I have to see my mom every [name a timeframe], if I don't want to at that time. I hope this makes clear my approach to relationships. It's not bad behavior, because when I do hang out with someone, it's because I really want to, and yes, people can tell. So I think OP was right to go cycling on his own. If he had stayed and waited for these people he was already mad at, it wouldn't have been fun for anyone. Same goes for the sister who basically TOLD him to mow the lawn. If she'd asked, it would have been entirely different. Her behavior is what caused his reaction.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

OP, look at it like this - you are simply recognizing that you are learning. That is something many of us cannot and will not do. When you were used as a door mat, it was because you didn't know any better. You were taught a lesson. You learned that lesson - to be more assertive (some would say selfish). Fine, so now you are more assertive. The difference is that now you are recognizing how your actions impact your own well being. Which was something you probably never considered in the past.
FTR, I know exactly how you feel and why you feel this way. I went thru it and I am going thru it now. It isn't bitterness, it is simply recognizing that you will no longer tolerate what you cannot accept. The other poster that was concerned that any divorced man who might take her out would be bitter, is dead wrong. Tolerance is one of the first steps in a relationship, if you can't even meet that first hurdle, it is probably best to move on. The idea that we must tolerate everyone is such a BS PC concept that has no basis in reality. I would posit that such political correctness leads to more tension and divisiveness and not less.


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