# Married - Sex is not a choice, it's a duty!



## Red347 (Jun 12, 2011)

I have been married 14 years. Before the marriage, we had sex everytime we saw each other. Got married, had children, wife had hysterectomy. Still had sex very often. Now, nearing our mid-forties(wife is 50), all of a sudden, she does not want to have sex anymore. Yet, I am still supposed to do all the things that a husband and friend is supposed to do. First of all, I am tired of all the men on this site who treat it as a dating site. They agree with everything women say, just to try and get close to one. Marriage is a choice you do not take lightly. There are certain responsibilities that marriage brings, and one of them is sex. Now, if I said, "You know, I don't want to take walks on the beach with you anymore, or I don't want to accompany you on shopping trips or fine dining anymore, How would a wife take that???? She would feel unloved and that her needs were not being met. Well, when it comes to marriage and sex, Be Like Nike and JUST DO IT!!!! Or get a divorce.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hmm... I don't remember my wedding vows stating that sex is a duty. It should never be a duty - it should be something that is done freely and joyfully because each partner genuinely respects, loves, and cares for the other.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I didn't remember this until my wife and I were talking recently, but she remined me that our premarital counselor had an interesting take on this. He said to forget that the word 'sex' is mandatory in a marriage, and replace it with the word 'intimacy', and many of the problems will get solved. Maybe that's a tad naive, but there was a subtle point he was making. He said that often, men think of sex outside of the intimacy that a woman needs, and women often crave intimacy in the place of actual sex. But if you give her plenty of intimacy, she'll start wanting sex.

I'm not suggesting that you don't want to spend a lot of time with your wife in just listening and meeting her need for meaningful touching, etc, or that you are in some way treating her in a way that suggests that you only want her for the act of sex. I'm suggesting that if you are building this foundation of intimacy, and she doesn't want it to progress to sex, then you might just have to accept that it is time to let her know exactly where you stand, and the potential consequences.

I think that many people will disagree with me abut this, or say that I'm saying it for the motives you mentioned, but its the common sense recipe that has worked pretty well for us in 25 years of marriage. Just wish there was a similar recipe for a stubborn guy like me married to a bipolar wife. The whole 'she's crazy in the head' recipe isn't working.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Halien said:


> I didn't remember this until my wife and I were talking recently, but she remined me that our premarital counselor had an interesting take on this. He said to forget that the word 'sex' is mandatory in a marriage, and replace it with the word 'intimacy', and many of the problems will get solved. Maybe that's a tad naive, but there was a subtle point he was making. He said that often, men think of sex outside of the intimacy that a woman needs, and women often crave intimacy in the place of actual sex. But if you give her plenty of intimacy, she'll start wanting sex.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that you don't want to spend a lot of time with your wife in just listening and meeting her need for meaningful touching, etc, or that you are in some way treating her in a way that suggests that you only want her for the act of sex. I'm suggesting that if you are building this foundation of intimacy, and she doesn't want it to progress to sex, then you might just have to accept that it is time to let her know exactly where you stand, and the potential consequences.
> 
> I think that many people will disagree with me abut this, or say that I'm saying it for the motives you mentioned, but its the common sense recipe that has worked pretty well for us in 25 years of marriage. Just wish there was a similar recipe for a stubborn guy like me married to a bipolar wife. The whole 'she's crazy in the head' recipe isn't working.


:iagree:


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

putting gas in my car is not a duty; it is a necessity without which I won't be able to move.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Red347 said:


> I have been married 14 years. Before the marriage, we had sex everytime we saw each other. Got married, had children, wife had hysterectomy. Still had sex very often. Now, nearing our mid-forties(wife is 50), all of a sudden, she does not want to have sex anymore. Yet, I am still supposed to do all the things that a husband and friend is supposed to do. First of all, I am tired of all the men on this site who treat it as a dating site. They agree with everything women say, just to try and get close to one. Marriage is a choice you do not take lightly. There are certain responsibilities that marriage brings, and one of them is sex. Now, if I said, "You know, I don't want to take walks on the beach with you anymore, or I don't want to accompany you on shopping trips or fine dining anymore, How would a wife take that???? She would feel unloved and that her needs were not being met. Well, when it comes to marriage and sex, Be Like Nike and JUST DO IT!!!! Or get a divorce.


You are totally off base if you think the men here sit around agreeing with us women just to get close to us and no, this isn't a dating website. The men here are incredibly strong in their convictions and don't kiss the butts of the women here, they tell it like it is, often harshly. Entire threads have been reduced to him vs. her on the sex issue and nobody backs down. Hang around for a while and you will see what I am talking about! 

Having said that, yes sex is important. Sometimes it's all in the approach and a workable solution can be reached, other times you just gotta part ways.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Of course it's a duty (on both sides). The marriage vows do include a promise not to have sex with anyone other than your spouse, so the agreement does imply the requirement that your spouse will have sex with you. Also, no marriage is legally valid in most states without consumation (sex). Most marriages in the Unites States are performed as a religious ceremony and most based upon Judeo/Christian doctrine which specifically does require that spouses sexually submit to their partners. So, whether viewed as civil or religious contract, sex with one's marriage partner is a duty.


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

It is 'do unto others!'

The way I see it, if my wife wants it from me, I damn well going to give it my best shot whether or not I am in the mood, because I know I would want, and have wanted, the same from her.

and if I ever start losing my mojo or start dealing with ED, I intend to move heaven and earth to keep what I have now.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

The Hebrew word would be mitzvah. It doesn't have a direct translation but it's part obligation, part love, part inherent component of marriage, part good deed.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

I can tell from your post you are very upset. I understand that it is frustrating. Have you told your wife, in a way that was not harsh or angry, that sex is important to you and that you want to retain some sort of physical intimacy with her? Ask her what YOU need to do to make it happen. And then listen. 

Your wife's hysterectomy might be part of the problem. The hormones change considerably after that operation and the vagina also does not produce as much lube as before. She may just not be in the mood in the same way that you are, but you both should be able to find a compromise. If you approach her with kindness and patience and tell her how sad you are (not angry) about the loss of sex, she may be inspired to do more to meet your needs.


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## DrWife (May 20, 2011)

If you're treating her well yes sex is a responsibility, however if you are not then IT is not. I think you need to understand she is nearing menopause sir. You said she is 50 and suddenly lost interest in sex, well duh, that is totally normal! Have her go talk to a doctor or OBGYN about this, have her hormones tested. And share with her KINDLY that you feel you are being shut out of your regular sexual interaction and ASK her how you feel you might work to repair this.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If I don't feed my kids for weeks at a time, assuming they'd still be magically alive, they wouldn't have to tell me they're hungry. Either a person has a sliver of compassion in their body or they don't. 
Honestly? Don't you know when your spouse is frustrated and agitated? Especially after 14 years? Does anyone imagine that this woman who's lived with this man for 14 years and knows him inside and out is clueless about the fact that her withholding causes him distress??????? The solution lies not in making her understand what he wants but in somehow making her care. In her mind, her need to not have sex trumps his need for sex (apparently, repeatedly).


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## DrWife (May 20, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> If I don't feed my kids for weeks at a time, assuming they'd still be magically alive, they wouldn't have to tell me they're hungry. Either a person has a sliver of compassion in their body or they don't.
> Honestly? Don't you know when your spouse is frustrated and agitated? Especially after 14 years? Does anyone imagine that this woman who's lived with this man for 14 years and knows him inside and out is clueless about the fact that her withholding causes him distress??????? The solution lies not in making her understand what he wants but in somehow making her care. In her mind, her need to not have sex trumps his need for sex (apparently, repeatedly).


You'd be amazed at how daft my husband can be at things that are completely OBVIOUS about my emotions too and when he does things that clearly hurt me. We cannot assume someone "should know" when we are upset or why- dialogue is very important in a marriage.


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## rikithemonk (Jun 8, 2011)

Men and women are wired very differently. Especially when it comes to sex. With men, sex acts a bit like a healing potion. It helps connect the man to the woman, emotionally. Ive seen situations where the man gets cut off from sex for an extended period of time. The result is interesting. The man pulls back, becomes emotionally distant and he looses the connection to his mate. This distancing becomes worse over time. 

Cutting off sex is the best way to push a man away from you or sabotage a relationship.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

DrWife said:


> You'd be amazed at how daft my husband can be at things that are completely OBVIOUS about my emotions too and when he does things that clearly hurt me. We cannot assume someone "should know" when we are upset or why- dialogue is very important in a marriage.


actions speak louder than words. or inaction as the case my be.

turn the temp down 

I think alot of women think if he really loved me he will put up with this (no sex)

even if she can't have vagina sex ,unless her neck and hand are broken she could still take care of him!!!!


in the real world theres no such thing as unconditional love. 

she sounds selfish.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> she sounds selfish.


He does as well.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

On a side note who would want DUTY sex.

I'd rather self love than duty sex.

To me sex should be fun and about pleasing each other and wanting to please each other. any time it seems like DUTY or PITY then count me out. NO thanks


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Enchantment said:


> Hmm... I don't remember my wedding vows stating that sex is a duty. It should never be a duty - it should be something that is done freely and joyfully because each partner genuinely respects, loves, and cares for the other.


So if one dosen't want it any longer whats the answer?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> So if one dosen't want it any longer whats the answer?


Well, assuming that they really both love, care, respect, and are truly committed to each other, I think they will try and help each other out - that might mean a wife helping her husband out with a hand or mouth or simply laying next to him while he does himself, or it might mean a man will be understanding and back off of certain activities for awhile if his wife has physical issues that are preventing her from engaging in certain kinds of activities with him. Compromise is the key. If both parties are not willing to compromise in some fashion, there is something in the relationship between them that needs to be ferreted out and fixed. Finding and fixing THAT is the tough part.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

One of the first things you learn in marriage counseling is that it is not fair or healthy to expect your partner to be able to read your mind. So many people, including me - in the past, get mad at their spouse for unmet needs that are never discussed. The attitude of "He/She should be able to read my mind and know what I want/need." gets in the way of many relationships.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

It's been my observations that libido is like personality. It's pretty well fixed by a certain age. What changes over time is our adult and not so adult ability to cope with it, accommodate it, fake it, etc. I think if your husband or wife is 'suddenly' a dud in the sack they really always were but they felt for whatever reason a need to pretend otherwise. Now they no longer make a pretense of that. I doubt they're less happy and fulfilled now than they were when they were 'faking' it. 

I am 100% sure my wife used sex to 'snare' me pre-marriage. She got what she wanted in exchange for putting up with me for that period of time. But come the magic day it was like a fuse blew. I tend to believe most men and women are like that. Maybe not so cynical sudden uncaring and dramatic but the same outcome. If you can't understand why your partner is suddenly not interested in you sexually in the least, and THEY can't explain it either, it's because there is no reason. It's not a 'thing'. The old her, the old him was the anomaly not the new her or him. 

Like I've said before, men are sexual creatures. I suspect when you unwrap all the psychobabble and bull**** women are too. So a man's not going to wake up one day look at his wife who's throwing sex at him, yawn and say 'no thanks'. Because I don't know about you, but I'd put 'making love' pretty far up the list of things I'd like to do regardless. Probably above work, mowing the lawn, bowling, grocery shopping, arguing, paying bills and so on. 

"Yeah honey, I'd love to be locked in the lotus position with you until I can't cum anymore, but...I have to go to the post office and get stamps..." 

Really?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

nader said:


> It is 'do unto others!'
> 
> The way I see it, if my wife wants it from me, I damn well going to give it my best shot whether or not I am in the mood, because I know I would want, and have wanted, the same from her.
> 
> and if I ever start losing my mojo or start dealing with ED, I intend to move heaven and earth to keep what I have now.


Now there is the attitude every spouse needs to catch. :smthumbup: This is how Me & my husband feel about the matter. And if he EVER started feeling it was his DUTY, even though technically it IS, I would be very very upset, it is all in the *attitude* given. This is what speaks to our hearts and warms our souls in this spiritual union we can intimacy. What keeps that spark lit , the flame burning and makes every day a Joy to wake up too.


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## Boogsie (Aug 24, 2010)

Here is how I see things.

Many women I know *expect* their husbands to be not only faithful, but remain in marriages which are sexless. The line I hear most is "marriage shouldn't be about just sex".

These women won't have sex with their husbands and threaten to drag them across the divorce coals if they have an affair.

So, here we are, my wife and I having a fine marriage. Now, for reasons of her own, she decides she "could literally go without ever having sex again" (I've heard this one personally).

Fine. A few weeks go by and I walk in the door and say, "You know, I could literally go without the stress of every going to work again." I proceed to tell my wife that I'm going to give my two weeks notice at the office and take some time to myself.

My wife flipped out and I said to her, "Well, a marriage shouldn't be only about money you know!"

She instantly got my point. For years she had justified that she shouldn't have to do anything she didn't want to do, but those same rules didn't apply to me. I let that crap go on for too long and have let her know that no sex = no marriage. 

Sex is a part of marriage. If you aren't willing to provide for your spouses sexual needs, you shouldn't be married.

Just like you wouldn't be married to someone who didn't give two craps about the financial needs of the marriage.


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Now there is the attitude every spouse needs to catch. :smthumbup: This is how Me & my husband feel about the matter. And if he EVER started feeling it was his DUTY, even though technically it IS, I would be very very upset, it is all in the *attitude* given. This is what speaks to our hearts and warms our souls in this spiritual union we can intimacy. What keeps that spark lit , the flame burning and makes every day a Joy to wake up too.


It is all just words now, because I am the HD. I always wonder what will happen if/when the tables turn on us. But having the experience of being HD and not always getting it when I want it, I think that will help me empathize.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Sex is a choice for some ladies. It's a need for most men.

I try to meet ALL of my wifes needs. When I don't meet them I hope to have an open and honest dialogue so that I can try harder. When she doesn't meet my needs (sex) it's too bad so sad type of approach.

And it's not just me. This site is filled with men just like me.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Of course it's a choice. So it not walking outside naked. Even crazy losers make 'choices'.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Male or female, we aren't slaves to our emotions. Unless we are in a coma, or we are paralyzed, we have the ability to give our spouse pleasure. Doing so or not is a choice.


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## Red347 (Jun 12, 2011)

I agree with many of you. Thanks for your input. @DrWife...Men go through this the course of the relationship, when its that time of the month, immediately after child birth, and menopause. We always have to understand. But when its for reasons such as "I don't feel clean, or I don't like that stuff inside me (you know), or we disagree on a subject of debate, it gets kind of ridiculous. Back in the Biblical days, David had more than one wife, Solomon had many wives...Even Moses had more than one. This is the reason. Women are not always ready, sometimes ever. Only when it is time to hook you before marriage, it is like rabbits. Once the years set in, in some cases, they try to convince you to go without. But that is not what you fell in love with. And in some cases it leads to infidelity.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I was married to my x wife for 18 years. The sex was never as often as I would have liked, and she didn't like it spicy.

I don't think a spouse should have to feel that sex is a duty, but I think they should at least realize it is "normal" for a person to want to have sex with their spouse. I think they should be willing to ask themselves why they don't want sex and be willing to do what it takes to work on it. To just go through a marriage with the attitude that you don't want sex and the other can just get over it is not good.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

This kind of complain makes me lose respect for some men! 

I agree that sex is important for men and for marriages. 

But men have to understand women's body and physical situation. 

When women hit to fifty, they start to have menopause, their bodies start to change! 

I don't know how many women can still stay sexual active after they are fifty! 

Can the blind see? Can the deaf hear? 

When a woman loses her sexual desire, instead of understanding her and appreciating for what she has done through out the marriage, some men only notice that he can't have sex with her anymore. 

It's disheartening!

And life in general, the more you complain, the less respect you get from the other one, no body likes to give when they are expected to give, they give only when they are happy to give!


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## Red347 (Jun 12, 2011)

@ GreenPearl - I am so tired of hearing about menopause. Does that affect your hands or mouth?? It's like a man saying, " oh...that car accident messed me up, looks like I will never _TRY_to work again. Look...I'm no pornstar. You mean I can't get 3 minutes!!!! Just stick the damn thing up in the air. Men do things everyday that they do not want to do. Why? To make their wives happy. We deserve the same consideration.


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## Red347 (Jun 12, 2011)

@Greenpearl - the men that are not complaining have wife #2 across town


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Red347 said:


> @ GreenPearl - I am so tired of hearing about menopause. Does that affect your hands or mouth?? It's like a man saying, " oh...that car accident messed me up, looks like I will never _TRY_to work again. Look...I'm no pornstar. You mean I can't get 3 minutes!!!! Just stick the damn thing up in the air. Men do things everyday that they do not want to do. Why? To make their wives happy. We deserve the same consideration.


I agree that they have mouths and hands! 

But emotionally when you are sexually turned off, you are not in the mood doing these things! 

I can really tell that from myself! 

When I am happy, and sexually horny, my husband gets a lot of blow jobs, but when I am down and bored, his captain is being ignored by me! 

If she is struggling with her life, then her physical situation plus her life issues weigh her down even more! 

I think being more understanding and considerate of her feeling when get her more interested in pleasing you! 

But I guess you are frustrated, it is difficult for you to show her you tender love and affection!


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Red347 said:


> @Greenpearl - the men that are not complaining have wife #2 across town


Just create more drama in life!


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> This kind of complain makes me lose respect for some men!
> 
> I agree that sex is important for men and for marriages.
> 
> ...



I'm a guy and can't speak to menopause, so I will take your word for it 100%. When a man has had a disappointing sex life with his wife during the 20s, 30s, and 40s, however, that makes it seem worse when 50 rolls around. 

I would have actually welcomed a reason for her not wanting sex, but she didn't seem to know herself why she didn't want it and wasn't interested in finding out. She was more satisfied with the idea that she was normal and I was a maniac for wanting sex with her on a regular basis.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

There is no requirement that a man enjoy his job, but there is an expectation that he support his wife. If our actions are bound only by what we naturally feel like doing at any given time, there is no need for a marriage contract. 
If a man obeys the whims of his hormones, he'll jump the bones of thousands of women during his marriage. He is expected to control his natural urges and bring them into compliance with the marriage he willfully entered into. 
If my wife has a legitimate need and it's in my power to supply that need, it's my duty and special privilege to do so. If I'm rendered impotent by some accident or medical condition, my wife still is a human being and still has social and sexual needs. If I'm not willing to hand the responsibility over to another man, I need to figure out how to supply her needs with whatever means are left available to me. 
She still needs kisses, hugs, and affection, regardless of what's going on in my head or with my hormones. If I'm having a problem in that area, I need to get it fixed. I can't expect her to quit being human because my systems happen to be misfiring.
People who depend on me still require nourishment, even if I'm not hungry. They still require sleep even though I may not feel tired.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

southbound said:


> I'm a guy and can't speak to menopause, so I will take your word for it 100%. When a man has had a disappointing sex life with his wife during the 20s, 30s, and 40s, however, that makes it seem worse when 50 rolls around.
> 
> I would have actually welcomed a reason for her not wanting sex, but she didn't seem to know herself why she didn't want it and wasn't interested in finding out. She was more satisfied with the idea that she was normal and I was a maniac for wanting sex with her on a regular basis.


For most people, they are self-centered. 

They only care about their own happiness. 

Actually for those people, they don't get happiness. Because people who are truly happy are the ones won are concerned and considerate of others! 

Very often when she doesn't feel the need of it, she doesn't understand that others need it! If she doesn't like fish, she doesn't understand people who love fish! She doesn't understand why those other people love fish! 

If I were not a high drive sex woman, I don't think that I would understand men's struggling! 

A lot of marriages fail because they don't see the need of the other one, they only care about the need of theirs. A marriage is involved with at least two, you can't just focus on what making you happy, you have to focus on what makes the other one happy. But how many people are this civil and sweet?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Red - 

I suppose he could demand what i see as a sexual service from his wife or he could put his needs aside temporarily and concentrate on understanding what she is going through by reading, helping her to institute the medical and nonmedical methods of controlling her symptoms. 

He could take an interest in going with her to GYN visits, talking to her physician about her symptoms to gain insight and push the doc for medical therapy and non medical methods of controlling symptoms. 

I have read of any men who get though this transition this way. I think MEM described a very uncomfortable period for him when his wife went through menopause. He seemed to have worked out a compromise. He was not totally happy but he expressed understanding of what his wife was experiencing. I hope he will post because I think it would help. . 

I have read of many men posts on thi s forum that do this just because they seem to love their wives enough to want her to know he cares about how she feels first and formost and wants her to feel like herself again. . 

They seem to take a mature and compationate approach and seem uncomfortable with the idea of demanding that their wife provide him with the use of her mouth to ejaculate into and her hands to maturbate him. 

They seem to feel uncomfortable with turning What was a mutually pleasurable sex life that reinforced their feelings of love and connection to one of her assuming the responsibility of masturbating him to relieve him and give him pleasure while the resolution of her symptoms are incomplete as yet. 

In fact, they seem to find it deeply desturbing to know that not only is she distressed and getting no pleasure out of these encounters but, she may feel used and that kills his desire to do that to his wife for short term gain. 

These men seem the most aware that it is temporary and t hey can get through this stage in their lives because he prizes her many contributions to the marriage that has made him happy over the years, as valuable as his hard work to support his children, maintain a house he lives in. .

I will also add that I have read of men who have been very understanding but their wives remain cold and indifferent. They do not seek the ample help that is available. 

women who are as distressed as their husband and love him enough to try to make him as happy as possible because, like his feelings towards her, she does not want him to suffer either. I have read post from women of this type asking for solutions for their husbands. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Maybe it's a cultural thing by my wedding 'certificate', we call it a ketubah, says there are no obligations like that. That a man and woman must come freely and openly to one another. There is no implied sexual 'work' to perform. That is not to say there are no consequences for neglect because there are, but there is no love in compulsion.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I love the traditions of Judism. I am not conversant but the traditions ant teachings that i know of seem steeped in a deep understanding of human nature without demonizing it. The acceptance seems to offer solace and point the way to reframing our less than perfect natures that makes it rewarding to do good. To do a mitzvah. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Love manifests itself in many ways and these ways include service and in commitment. Having sex when one feels horny isn't love. All animals are capable of that level of commitment. Placing the partner's needs before your own and doing what is best of the marriage regardless of how you happen to feel is my idea of love. The partner that can't be bothered to attend to your needs just because they aren't in the "mood" probably will also be useless to you when you're 90 and need to be fed, bathed, or have your diaper changed. Maybe some day, those "not in the mood" will be hungry or sitting in feces. If there's any justice in the world, their spouses won't be in the mood to attend to their needs, either. Unless you can fortell the future with great accuracy, you might want to be cautious about who you refuse.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

i dont know about "duty", but in our household, husband would say, no sex, no money, i can eat anywhere, im a guy i can live anywhere....i dont need cable...

YOU DO..i happen to like living indoors, and food and cable..

in marriage vows, it dosent say, he will go shoe shopping and dress shopping, and sunday dinners with parents. but husbands do all these things...

as the wife, we think he will always support us in everything, jobs, extra schooling, raising kids, and yes paying for things while we raise the kids and take care of our familes...

they watch lifetime with us, let us talk about our crazy days, no matter how little sense it makes...

none of these things are stated, but its an understanding....

having said that...there comes a time when we ALL deal with life changes, weight gain, hair loss, if you turn a cold shoulder to love and affection then why would someone want to have sex with you??

we will all change in good ways and bad, if you dont talk about it, if you cant or wont accept life changes then it willl be a tough go, and you both will run in place till one of you walks away..

this is how affairs start...not talking, not taking time to care about the other persons feelings, being selfish and only thinking about your needs and wants...

we cant be 20 forever, i believe only the fortunate few can keep on having sex into the twilight years....but im ready to put that to the test...


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## Ayrun (Jun 12, 2011)

I'm not really sure if you're just wanting to rant, buddy, or if you want advice. Which is it?


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

Halien said:


> I didn't remember this until my wife and I were talking recently, but she remined me that our premarital counselor had an interesting take on this. He said to forget that the word 'sex' is mandatory in a marriage, and replace it with the word 'intimacy', and many of the problems will get solved. Maybe that's a tad naive, but there was a subtle point he was making. He said that often, men think of sex outside of the intimacy that a woman needs, and women often crave intimacy in the place of actual sex. But if you give her plenty of intimacy, she'll start wanting sex.
> 
> I'm not suggesting that you don't want to spend a lot of time with your wife in just listening and meeting her need for meaningful touching, etc, or that you are in some way treating her in a way that suggests that you only want her for the act of sex. I'm suggesting that if you are building this foundation of intimacy, and she doesn't want it to progress to sex, then you might just have to accept that it is time to let her know exactly where you stand, and the potential consequences.
> 
> I think that many people will disagree with me abut this, or say that I'm saying it for the motives you mentioned, but its the common sense recipe that has worked pretty well for us in 25 years of marriage. Just wish there was a similar recipe for a stubborn guy like me married to a bipolar wife. The whole 'she's crazy in the head' recipe isn't working.


Halien, if your wife wants to treat her bipolar disorder and be well, she can. I have the same thing yet I work full time, have great friendships and a happy marriage. It can be done, but the sufferer has to work at it.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Of course it's a duty (on both sides). The marriage vows do include a promise not to have sex with anyone other than your spouse, so the agreement does imply the requirement that your spouse will have sex with you. Also, no marriage is legally valid in most states without consumation (sex). Most marriages in the Unites States are performed as a religious ceremony and most based upon Judeo/Christian doctrine which specifically does require that spouses sexually submit to their partners. So, whether viewed as civil or religious contract, sex with one's marriage partner is a duty.


:iagree: A marriage performed in a Catholic church can be annulled if one partner is unwilling to have sex. I always say: DO NOT GET MARRIED IF YOU DO NOT PLAN ON HAVING SEX.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Unbelievable - "love manifests itself in many ways and these ways include service and in commitment. Having sex when one feels horny isn't love. All animals are capable of that level of commitment. Placing the partner's needs before your own and doing what is best of the marriage regardless of how you happen to feel is my idea of love." 

I am glad you see my point. A husbands support during this transition is definitely one of the many ways to show love. This situation may require a man to temporarily employ the service type of love to get through this. Indeed a man having sex only when he is horny is not love. That's, I think, how a menopausal wife would feel if she was expected to allow her husband to ejaculate using her mouth or her hand because he is horny, it's not love. It is easy to feel used.

I agree with you, that menopause period may require tge man to put his wife's needs to get over her symptoms is putting his partners needs above his own is best for the marriage. You are too right, even though he feels horny he shows his love although he would rather that she be her premenopausal self so she could relieve his horniness. 

I know you ment this to apply to the woman putting her feelings aside for her husband but it could easily be gender neutral. If they both came at this normal life transition with this attitude, it would make things go smoothly. When menopause is considered a woman's problem and she should get through it without desturbing her husband, although a common attitude is not a manifestation of love. It is understandable that a woman would shut down with a man like this. it is a natural and sometimes difficult transition that is something that both partners are concerned with. 

Men with PE, ED and age related inability to keep it up would not expect his wife to great these priblems or changes in his sexual ability with a role of the eyes and the statement - "i am sick of the decreasing sexual performence of aging men - i still need a good stiff one to enjoy sex so he better fix it so it does not effect me. If he can't then I can get trade him in for a working model and get it elsewhere". That may happen since women are becoming so much like men. 

Men may be sick of hearing about menopause and sick of it's effect on their sex life but if they practiced what they preached about sacrifice, love, putting one partners needs being paramout in the service of love and that being ruled by horniness or lack thereof is not loving. I don't expect the men who are blind to their wives feelngs but with expectations that she should give him what he can not give her to understand. But their wives feel their self-absorption and feelings of entitlement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

If I ever go limp, AND the ed medication doesn't work for me, I will still never stop wanting to go down on my wife. Or toys.. or whatever it takes! Assuming she still wants it by then.

AGAIN - because I would appreciate the same from her.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Mrs.G said:


> Halien, if your wife wants to treat her bipolar disorder and be well, she can. I have the same thing yet I work full time, have great friendships and a happy marriage. It can be done, but the sufferer has to work at it.


It was mostly meant in self-depricating jest, but some people forget that there are many degrees of bipolar problems. She manages many of the aspects well, but mania seems to be hard to treat without taking enough medication to turn her into a zombie. I'd be lying if I didn't admit that it feels too much like hatred sometimes, but I tend to get the worst of it because she trusts me.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Catherine, 

I actually meant that exactly the way I wrote it. It applies to both husbands and wives. "Can't" means it's physically impossible and almost none of us could honestly say it's physically impossible to be sexual, romantic, nurturing with our spouse. The word "won't" is what we use to describe any other kind of withholding and I believe it's an unacceptable posture for anyone in a marriage.


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## healme (Jun 17, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> On a side note who would want DUTY sex.
> 
> I'd rather self love than duty sex.
> 
> To me sex should be fun and about pleasing each other and wanting to please each other. any time it seems like DUTY or PITY then count me out. NO thanks


:iagree:


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## healme (Jun 17, 2011)

Mrs.G said:


> :iagree: A marriage performed in a Catholic church can be annulled if one partner is unwilling to have sex. I always say: DO NOT GET MARRIED IF YOU DO NOT PLAN ON HAVING SEX.




DO NOT PLAN ON HAVING SEX AND NOT FEELING LIKE HAVING SEX WHEN YOU ARE UNWELL/TIRED /GOING THROUGH HORMONAL IMBALANCE LIKE A MENOPAUSE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS.


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## FeliceDunas (Jun 14, 2011)

This is a common problem, so common that I spend a lot of my time helping my patients and clients deal with this. You might enjoy listening to the free telelclasses available on my link.

www.keepingherhappy.com

Good luck,
F. Dunas


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Sex is a important part of marriage, period. However, there are lots of reasons why someone may not be into it as much as they once were. 

I'm going to use porn as an example. Some say porn isn't the cause but a symptom of a bigger issue. I believe this. I also think the same can be said for sex or lack there of. IMO, I have a feeling if people put half as much effort and energy into the rest of the marriage as they do about sex or what they are not getting, then perhaps they can figure out what it is that is going on, and why the sex might be lacking. If the energy is all about what you're NOT getting, then its time to look at the bigger picture for why that might be.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Cat,
Menopause can create a situation where you both realize the incredible commitment you have to each other.



- "love manifests itself in many ways and these ways include service and in commitment. Having sex when one feels horny isn't love. All animals are capable of that level of commitment. Placing the partner's needs before your own and doing what is best of the marriage regardless of how you happen to feel is my idea of love." 

I am glad you see my point. A husbands support during this transition is definitely one of the many ways to show love. This situation may require a man to temporarily employ the service type of love to get through this. Indeed a man having sex only when he is horny is not love. That's, I think, how a menopausal wife would feel if she was expected to allow her husband to ejaculate using her mouth or her hand because he is horny, it's not love. It is easy to feel used.

I agree with you, that menopause period may require tge man to put his wife's needs to get over her symptoms is putting his partners needs above his own is best for the marriage. You are too right, even though he feels horny he shows his love although he would rather that she be her premenopausal self so she could relieve his horniness. 

I know you ment this to apply to the woman putting her feelings aside for her husband but it could easily be gender neutral. If they both came at this normal life transition with this attitude, it would make things go smoothly. When menopause is considered a woman's problem and she should get through it without desturbing her husband, although a common attitude is not a manifestation of love. It is understandable that a woman would shut down with a man like this. it is a natural and sometimes difficult transition that is something that both partners are concerned with. 

Men with PE, ED and age related inability to keep it up would not expect his wife to great these priblems or changes in his sexual ability with a role of the eyes and the statement - "i am sick of the decreasing sexual performence of aging men - i still need a good stiff one to enjoy sex so he better fix it so it does not effect me. If he can't then I can get trade him in for a working model and get it elsewhere". That may happen since women are becoming so much like men. 

Men may be sick of hearing about menopause and sick of it's effect on their sex life but if they practiced what they preached about sacrifice, love, putting one partners needs being paramout in the service of love and that being ruled by horniness or lack thereof is not loving. I don't expect the men who are blind to their wives feelngs but with expectations that she should give him what he can not give her to understand. But their wives feel their self-absorption and feelings of entitlement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

Halien said:


> It was mostly meant in self-depricating jest, but some people forget that there are many degrees of bipolar problems. She manages many of the aspects well, but mania seems to be hard to treat without taking enough medication to turn her into a zombie. I'd be lying if I didn't admit that it feels too much like hatred sometimes, but I tend to get the worst of it because she trusts me.


That is very true. I stand corrected. 

I am much more prone to depression than mania. I have only been manic twice. Suicidally depressed....too many to count. If I come off my meds, I go into mania first and then crash. I was on Zyprexa before and it made me look like a smackhead...I was literally on the nod. 
I love Seroquel and Depakote. They help me without turning me into a sleepy eyed, drooling fool.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

I believe that menopause will be very hard for me. Hormones are not my friends....yet another reason to remain childfree.

Mr.G is 8 years my senior. I have noticed a slight softening at times, which wasn't there when we met four years ago. He also cannot have sex every day like I would want. I have learned to be happy with four times a week. 

I have already told him that he willl have to go get Cialis if ED becomes a problem. Sex is too important for me to live without. Married sex is the best lovemaking I have ever had...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Mrs.G I am hypomanic - if not on meds I have rapid cycling of up and down. I go down emotionally further than up. I take Emsam, an MAO inhibitor patch and limictal a mood stabilizer. The combination is the best I have ever had. Also improved my libido because it increases dopamine. 

Hey, that may be a cure for low libido.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

I'm sorry but if you feel its a duty, then you are either with the wrong person, or you're not seeing the whole picture about what may or may not be going on. Duty to me equals chore, or at least thats how it comes across.


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## Red347 (Jun 12, 2011)

CallaLily said:


> I'm sorry but if you feel its a duty, then you are either with the wrong person, or you're not seeing the whole picture about what may or may not be going on. Duty to me equals chore, or at least thats how it comes across.


@CallaLily Almost everything a wife enjoys for a husband to do, is a chore for the husband. Visiting in-laws, accompanied shopping trips, watching dramas and cooking shows, tending to all the fix-it jobs around the house. Not all men enjoy doing these things, but we do them to keep the peace. Question is, what else do we ask you for, if we can cook for ourselves and wash our own clothes.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

greenpearl said:


> This kind of complain makes me lose respect for some men!
> 
> I agree that sex is important for men and for marriages.
> 
> ...


Green pearl ! I am soo surprised at you, this seems out of character somehow. WOW. I had to read it again. Hmmm 

I gotta tell you something, when I was HIGH HIGH HIGH drive, I got MAD if my husband couldn't do it, this was not like me, but darn when I wanted it, I wanted it , and doing it myself was just not the same. I can vouch it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get our minds off of sex when we are feeling that way, I COULD NOT. I remember laying there at night, him sleeping quietly beside me, just had sex a few hours ago, but I couldnt sleep, patiently waiting till morning so we could DO IT AGAIN- if he was able ! Viagra sure helped ! It was the 1st time in my marraige I realized "da**, I can see why men cheat! -feeling like this and having to wait DAYS" - I would have never survived it. It was almost painful for me. 

I am soooo thankful I had this experience because I believe it will carry me, and help me understand my husband when menopause hits. Those sweet memories, and our erotic brains will have to take over -when the hormones subside. We must continue the ship with paddles if we run out of fuel ya know. 



If this heavenly libido goes for me, to where I feel nothing, I will surely be hitting the docs , the forums, the pharmacies to see anything I can get to bring a meausre of it back, it is simply too much FUN!  I want it now even when I don't want it.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Green pearl ! I am soo surprised at you, this seems out of character somehow. WOW. I had to read it again. Hmmm
> 
> I gotta tell you something, when I was HIGH HIGH HIGH drive, I got MAD if my husband couldn't do it, this was not like me, but darn when I wanted it, I wanted it , and doing it myself was just not the same. I can vouch it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get our minds off of sex when we are feeling that way, I COULD NOT. I remember laying there at night, him sleeping quietly beside me, just had sex a few hours ago, but I couldnt sleep, patiently waiting till morning so we could DO IT AGAIN- if he was able ! Viagra sure helped ! It was the 1st time in my marraige I realized "da**, I can see why men cheat! -feeling like this and having to wait DAYS" - I would have never survived it. It was almost painful for me.
> 
> ...


SA,
I have never experienced the peaks that you have. Maybe I never will, but I can tell you that much of it is attitude (your brain really is the biggest sex organ). Even if you do not have a particularly high physical libido, having the "can do" attitude and caring about your spouse and marriage will take you far! So, I am not worried about menopause from that perspective.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Red347 said:


> @CallaLily Almost everything a wife enjoys for a husband to do, is a chore for the husband. Visiting in-laws, accompanied shopping trips, watching dramas and cooking shows, tending to all the fix-it jobs around the house. Not all men enjoy doing these things, but we do them to keep the peace. Question is, what else do we ask you for, if we can cook for ourselves and wash our own clothes.


Red ~
I'm not sure that I really understand what your situation is with your wife. Was she very sexual with you at one time and now it has suddenly dropped off? Have you investigated the reasons for the drop off?

I know that I see a lot of men equating things like doing chores you have mentioned above in one breath, and then wanting their wife to have sex with them in the next. Meaning that they are somehow equivalent (man doing chores he doesn't like = woman give me sex). They are not at all alike. You don't want sex to be a chore for your wife - you wouldn't want it to be a chore for yourself either, likely. As well, your wife likely has a laundry list of chores that she does for you that she doesn't like (maybe it's even your laundry ). Sex should be one of the conduits that is used to create intimacy between a husband and wife, and it should be reciprocal. When it is reciprocal, it is almost self-sustaining. Investigate and find out why it is not fulfilling for your wife.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Me & my husband joke we would be going at it 6 times a day if we could get off, but once seems to be our limit at our age. Right after, one of us commonly says "the highlight of the day is over" with a smile but a sigh. It is probably a blessing as our kids would likely starve, the house would fall down from neglect. I think that was our problem early in our marriage, too much about the kids & house projects. 

Yeah, Enchantment, my peak was majorly high ( It lasted 8 months- I kept a calendar), I will never know why this happened to me for sure, but it was a blessing and a torture at the same time cause I started feeling "OH my God, my husband can't keep up with me, I MISSED all his good years, I just got started & he is finished , he doesn't desire me anymore! " - maybe MEN can handle those kinds of thoughts, but I wasn't handling them so darn well. I used to cry, feel I was a burden, my husband just laughed at me , I remember him saying "Sex, a [email protected]#$% are you crazy!" But I was kinda out of my mind at the time. 

I have come to learn soooo very much. I gave the poor man performance pressure, but we overcame that too -even without me backing off. 

I guess that is what alot of men do to their wives in effect. 

Our libidos are pefectly in sinc now. I am the same NOW (hormonally that is) as I was my entire marraige but sadly I was not in touch with my sexual side *mentally* back then, as I feel many women aren't -probably what holds them back most.

If more women could get a dose of this-for a time oh my, what a difference it would make in your sexual attitude.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Red347;351818 Question is said:


> I understand. I guess you could ask the same question for the wife...


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

As in the movie, "The Breakup"

"Why would I WANT to do the dishes...."

"You're supposed to want to want to do the dishes....."

And so on. If you loved me you'd do stuff we BOTH hate.


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## Red347 (Jun 12, 2011)

@Enchantment - I met my wife immediately after a 10 year marriage to her first husband. They had gotten a divorce, and a girlfriend of her's (whom I had a sexual relationship with) introduced us, thinking she needed to be done Right. After our first time of intimate sex, she confided that this had been her first time that she had experienced an orgasm (on top made it even sweeter ). To the dismay of the matchmaker, we stayed together. They are no longer friends need I say. Since then, we have always had a busy sex life, through kids, through life's trials, etc. Now that the children are nearing 18, I haven't slowed down a bit. I admit that menopause may be a factor, also life's stresses, but you can't expect your partner to just turn it off, after a lifetime of sexual activity. This is something I have become accustomed to, being I am loyal to her. To cut off my only source, after practically being a nympho, is just not right.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Red347 said:


> @Enchantment - I met my wife immediately after a 10 year marriage to her first husband. They had gotten a divorce, and a girlfriend of her's (whom I had a sexual relationship with) introduced us, thinking she needed to be done Right. After our first time of intimate sex, she confided that this had been her first time that she had experienced an orgasm (on top made it even sweeter ). To the dismay of the matchmaker, we stayed together. They are no longer friends need I say. Since then, we have always had a busy sex life, through kids, through life's trials, etc. Now that the children are nearing 18, I haven't slowed down a bit. I admit that menopause may be a factor, also life's stresses, but you can't expect your partner to just turn it off, after a lifetime of sexual activity. This is something I have become accustomed to, being I am loyal to her. To cut off my only source, after practically being a nympho, is just not right.


Well, Red, are you opening up the lines of communication with your wife to find out what kinds of issues she is having with menopause? Is she experiencing pain during sex, lack of libido, hot flashes/night sweats/insomnia? Has she seen her doctor for any issues she may be having? The more caring you are to her during this phase of her life, the more likely she will respond to you in a positive way. 

Do some research into menopause, both you and her. There are a lot of things that a woman can do (not just HRT) that can help make the transition a bit easier.

As well, are you addressing to her the concerns that you have regarding the lack of sex? And addressing it in a non-confrontational way, so that she doesn't build up resentment toward you or guilt about it?

I wish you the best!


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## annagarret (Jun 12, 2011)

Red347 said:


> I have been married 14 years. Before the marriage, we had sex everytime we saw each other. Got married, had children, wife had hysterectomy. Still had sex very often. Now, nearing our mid-forties(wife is 50), all of a sudden, she does not want to have sex anymore. Yet, I am still supposed to do all the things that a husband and friend is supposed to do. First of all, I am tired of all the men on this site who treat it as a dating site. They agree with everything women say, just to try and get close to one. Marriage is a choice you do not take lightly. There are certain responsibilities that marriage brings, and one of them is sex. Now, if I said, "You know, I don't want to take walks on the beach with you anymore, or I don't want to accompany you on shopping trips or fine dining anymore, How would a wife take that???? She would feel unloved and that her needs were not being met. Well, when it comes to marriage and sex, Be Like Nike and JUST DO IT!!!! Or get a divorce.


I completly agree with you. You really hit the nail on the head with this one. In all fairness, with her hysterectomy, she may need hormone therapy... it makes all the difference for a woman if we lose those hormones. A lot could be mental. She got married, raised children, she might not really know what to do next. As women, we are relationl people, creatures of the heart. We are constantly thinking of our marriage, good or bad, children, friends, co-workers, parents.......She might be in a fork in the road....who am I, who needs me, what should I do with my life?......Please be patient with her... all those walks on the beach and fine dining contribute to her love bank.....But you definately have to talk to her about sex......maybe she thinks she is not desirable to you anymore because she is older....reaffirm your hotness for her... compliment her strong features..smile, tits, ass, hair, smile...etc. Good luck


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

If it's a "duty" for women to have sex, then it's a "duty" for men to spend a lot of time emotionally on the relationship and flirting with his wife like when they first got together. If both people do their "duty", and put the time and energy needed to ensure emotional and physical attraction and horniness and desire for one another, I really don't think it would feel like a duty, it would be something they both enjoyed and looked forward to, as part of their relationship.


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## Red347 (Jun 12, 2011)

Thank you all for your advice. It is something we both should work on, along with a professional.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Mrs.G I am hypomanic - if not on meds I have rapid cycling of up and down. I go down emotionally further than up. I take Emsam, an MAO inhibitor patch and limictal a mood stabilizer. The combination is the best I have ever had. Also improved my libido because it increases dopamine.
> 
> Hey, that may be a cure for low libido.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow. Crazy ladies hi five! :rofl: I make jokes about our condition because I don't mind owning it on a forum. In real life, I guard my disorder like classified CIA files. Unfortunately, most people look down on those with mental health issues.


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## healme (Jun 17, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Red ~
> I'm not sure that I really understand what your situation is with your wife. Was she very sexual with you at one time and now it has suddenly dropped off? Have you investigated the reasons for the drop off?
> 
> I know that I see a lot of men equating things like doing chores you have mentioned above in one breath, and then wanting their wife to have sex with them in the next. Meaning that they are somehow equivalent (man doing chores he doesn't like = woman give me sex). They are not at all alike. You don't want sex to be a chore for your wife - you wouldn't want it to be a chore for yourself either, likely. As well, your wife likely has a laundry list of chores that she does for you that she doesn't like (maybe it's even your laundry ). Sex should be one of the conduits that is used to create intimacy between a husband and wife, and it should be reciprocal. When it is reciprocal, it is almost self-sustaining. Investigate and find out why it is not fulfilling for your wife.


:iagree:


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

CallaLily said:


> I'm sorry but if you feel its a duty, then you are either with the wrong person, or you're not seeing the whole picture about what may or may not be going on. Duty to me equals chore, or at least thats how it comes across.


Duty doesn't have to be unpleasant. It's my duty to attend to my wife's sexual needs, to support her, to protect her, and to care for her the best I know how. That's not a chore! It's a privilege! I'm the only one who has that privilege, so it is MY duty and mine alone. She can't go anywhere else to fulfill these needs without breaking her vows. When she swore to give her body only to me, that placed a responsibility on me that I, alone, would attend to her needs. A ring doesn't give me the right to force celibacy upon her.


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