# Me (33M) lied to by (29F) wife of 7 years, about a night out. Subsequent lies follow



## Overzealous11

This occurred 5 months ago, still not really over it. Hopefully though long, this post flows...


Wife and I share a FB account essentially. It is hers mainly used for keeping up with family and following vegetarian sites, etc.

One evening in August she gets an invite to hit a bar with a friend from nursing school named 'Erica' (22F). It was around 10:30pm, we had already been drinking with our neighbors across the street but I was totally cool with it. Gave her some passionate kisses, grabbed her sexually, and sent her on her way. Really hot send off...


She does not come home that night. I tried calling and it goes straight to VM. I hit Erica up on FB and offer to call an Uber and no replies.


She and Erica come into our house at 9:30am and I am visibly pissed. I remain cordial, get them water, pack Erica a bowl and she leaves soon after.


I tell the wife how disrespectful that was, how I feel completely disrespected, she would go out all night without even a phone call.


Says that she and Erica drank at the bar, went to Erica's apartment and passed out.


Week or so later, she gets a friend request from a guy we will call Jeremy. I question her on it, and she tells me it is a friend of hers named 'Erica' who she met briefly met at that bar. I was suspicious, and didn't feel comfortable with the answer.
So I begin to dig.


Androids have a handy feature in Maps called My Timeline. Very informative...
One night I stay up, screen shot her maps, text them to me, delete my texts from her phone...and wait.


Cross reference his FB page with google maps and street view - based on layout of house, and backyard. My dad was very into keeping his sons aware of design when house buying as kids so this helped tremendously. This was indeed Jeremy's house she slept st that night...


The night her phone shuts off at the gas station she hit minutes after leaving the house. It does not turn back on until the next morning at 930am and that location is not Erica's apartment.


This location appears again a week later for 30 minutes after she gets out of class. The same day she says she met Erica to get her belongings from that night.

So I sit her down and ask her a few basics. Did you go to Erica's to pick up your stuff? A: no we met at a gas station. Q: which one? A: don't remember. Q: Surely you remember around where it was? A: we met and talked for a few minutes in the parking lot, but i don't remember what it was or where it was.


So I ask about Jeremy? Who is he, where does he live. A: don't know him don't know where he lives. Just a Erica's BF. I state, Erica's BF is A guy named DJ, we have met several times. A: this is Erica's other BF
I explain that I already know where she was so she might as well explains. She refuses for an entire day, and flips it on me that I am acting crazy. That she did go over to Jeremy's to meet Erica and pick up her stuff and that is the only time she has ever been there. I already know this is a lie but give her the rope...

The next day, I am acting ****ty and tell her again that I already know everything (though i really don't)
I AM NOT A FB GURU... So i check his FB page and its been blocked. I thought he blocked her. When I told her that she did not correct me. Found out she actually blocked him?!


So she tells me that yes she went to the bar, yes she got drunk, went to Jeremy's with Erica and passed out there. She didn't tell me because she knew I would be mad. That Jeremy is Erica's BF because she and DJ are breaking up. Has been lying on top of lying to keep me from getting mad.
At work a week later and he friend requests her again. I flip a ****ty text to her and she she sends me screenshots of her texting Erica to tell her BF to back off, it is straining our marriage.


I had a hunch, so that night I act like I already knew she manipulated the screen shots to read what I wanted.



First she acts like she doesn't know how to delete texts?! Its 2015 kids...so I push and she confesses that she did delete some exchange with Erica but wont exactly say what is was...


I am not in this circle of friends of hers, so I have no insiders to help me with info. Erica is already a liar in my book and I have never met Jeremy or his room mates.
After a knock down drag out fight, worst ever in my life let alone our marriage, I am faced with believing her or not. Calmed down months ago but the suspicion still lingers.


Did she boink Jeremy, and him being Erica's side thing a lie to cover? Did she boink a room mate? Did nothing actually happen? Then why the continued string of petty and heavy lies? Did they all have a freaking orgy?!

Looking for advice because I am half tempted to bring it up now that its not fresh and I am not reeling internally. See if stories are the same or she wants to confess anything...Even thought about suggesting open relationship just to see her reply but that was after reading /relationships


Looking for some good words...or bad...honesty is what I seek


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## GusPolinski

She's lying.

What model Android does she use?


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## tom67

Tell her she's going for a polygraph an see her reaction...
Or
Go dark and fill out divorce papers it's your call but yes she is not telling the truth.


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## GusPolinski

Is she still staying out at all hours?

Still going out w/ Erica regularly?

Also, if this d**chebag was able to send her/y'all a friend request, then that means he wasn't blocked. Or, at the very least, that he'd since been unblocked.


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## tom67

Sigh, the seven year itch.

Look up biology ad the seven year itch she is looking for another mans seed so to speak.
I hope she isn't pregnant?


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## aine

I think she is lying too, too many 'stories' and she is acting guilty.
Do not say anything, keep your eyes open and VAR her car, put the keylogger software (e.g. Big Brother) on the pc you share, it will log all she types and you just wait to get your evidence (if there is any to be got). If she is lying now, she will hang herself eventually, be patient.


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## Tobyboy

On your other thread, your wife is addicted to romance novels........I hope non of those have threesomes in the plot!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tobyboy

What stuff did she leave behind at ericas? Her panties?

Dude, you got played!!! That night was pre planned way before she got that text/message from Erica. 

Do you remember how she was acting during the time you'll were drinking with the neighbors?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp

You know she is lying since she was lying to you from the start.
Do you seriously think she went to Jeremy's house and then just passed out on the sofa? Get real.
If the roles were reversed do you honestly think she would believe such a story from you?

1. You both need to get tested for STD's. She was just a pick up from a bar scene.
2. You need to polygraph her. My hunch is that if you tell her that you had an appointment for her to get tested by a polygraph she will confess before hand.

Time to take a real hard look at your relationship. Something is terribly wrong here.


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## Thound

At least you know for sure that she is a liar.


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## HarryDoyle

She was contacting this dude through a shared FB account? Hmmmmmm


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## Lostinthought61

i would come straight out and tell her i don't trust you and if you want to regain my trust you will take a polygraph and see what she says.


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## Spotthedeaddog

You can't get friend requests from blocked accounts on FB. A blocked account (from either end) simply makes everything the other person does and their whole account just vanish from the face of Facebook.
It's a quick way to hide things though, and so she's blocked him...thus she was also the person who unblocked him.


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## cbnero

One lie, all lie. VAR in her vehicle asap.

Or if you have a giant set of stones, calmly tell her she has lied, you know more than you let on, and that you will not be in a marriage with someone who betrays you.

My wife also lied "because she was afraid how angry I might get" so obviously my fault she was sleeping with another dude and had to string lie upon lie. She actually had me apologizing for it. Hmmm... lol

Well now my eyes are open. Don't go what I went through. Stop talking to her about it. VAR her car for 1 week. You will hear all you need to. Never ever ever tell her about the VAR. Dump her like the lying scum she is acting right now. Boundaries Boundaries boundaries.

Lying is unacceptable. Her job to fix it now, she broke it. Or she can go.

You don't have the full truth still, fyi. She is lying to you. Don't bother trying to get it from her mouth. She will deny to the grave. Follow my instructions. Good luck


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## bandit.45

She's lying. Polygraph time....


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## Overzealous11

tom67 said:


> Sigh, the seven year itch.
> 
> Look up biology ad the seven year itch she is looking for another mans seed so to speak.
> I hope she isn't pregnant?


I understand the 7 year itch, and the related biological statements. 

Not funny.


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## Overzealous11

GusPolinski said:


> Is she still staying out at all hours?
> 
> Still going out w/ Erica regularly?
> 
> Also, if this d**chebag was able to send her/y'all a friend request, then that means he wasn't blocked. Or, at the very least, that he'd since been unblocked.


No outings with Erica since then.

The whole facebook thing boils down to this: That I thought that he blocked her, she never corrected me. Found out a few weeks later that she actually blocked him.


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## GusPolinski

Overzealous11 said:


> No outings with Erica since then.
> 
> The whole facebook thing boils down to this: That I thought that he blocked her, she never corrected me. Found out a few weeks later that she actually blocked him.


Any outings alone? Or w/ anyone other than yourself?

So when did she unblock him? She would've had to do that in order for a friend request from him to show up.

Unless, of course, he sent it from a second account.

You said that the two of you use a shared account... do you know how to check for blocked users?


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## Overzealous11

Well f word.
So many calls for a poly - where do you get one?
Cost?
Getting tested tomorrow.


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## JohnA

This post should have been the first on your other thread. Taken separately you might think maybe not. Taken together it changes the threat level.

At this point you need to have a post divorce life planned and in place - first. There are too many red flags in your marriage, what state do you live in. I binged PA earlier in the day for a poster. 

In PA there are 15 factors considered for custody. I urged him to study them and adjust his life to ensure 50/50 as the worst case scenario with a goal of 70/30 for him. Too many men just accept wife gets custody. Hey she will be working full time too and you do the bulk of the household chores as is. 

There are 17 factors in deciding alimony - if any. Adultery is a factor. Also the debt you occurred for her degree could be a factor. 
Read on line and review with a lawyer - without telling her. Continue your 180, and start settings boundries. No GNO with toxic friends to start with. 

Get a post divorce life planned then work on reconcilation and talk about a lie detector, etc. Also read standard of evidence post

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

Dig into jermony background.


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## Overzealous11

bryanp said:


> You know she is lying since she was lying to you from the start.
> Do you seriously think she went to Jeremy's house and then just passed out on the sofa? Get real.
> If the roles were reversed do you honestly think she would believe such a story from you?
> 
> 1. You both need to get tested for STD's. She was just a pick up from a bar scene.
> 2. You need to polygraph her. My hunch is that if you tell her that you had an appointment for her to get tested by a polygraph she will confess before hand.
> 
> Time to take a real hard look at your relationship. Something is terribly wrong here.


This post. Crap...you are so right...

I will have to execute the STD check and polygraph test after the new year. That is actually an easy conversation. One that if she was guilty or hiding something, would come out at that time.

Just wow.


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## Overzealous11

GusPolinski said:


> Any outings alone? Or w/ anyone other than yourself?
> 
> So when did she unblock him? She would've had to do that in order for a friend request from him to show up.
> 
> Unless, of course, he sent it from a second account.
> 
> You said that the two of you use a shared account... do you know how to check for blocked users?


I unblocked him months ago. 


Educated myself on how to navigate settings and search history on FB. 

No blocked users, including Jeremy.


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## GusPolinski

Overzealous11 said:


> This post. Crap...you are so right...
> 
> I will have to execute the STD check and polygraph test after the new year. That is actually an easy conversation. One that if she was guilty or hiding something, would come out at that time.
> 
> Just wow.


I wouldn't even mention a poly w/o first having some solid monitoring in place. I say that because you want to be on the lookout for any Google (or Bing or whatever) searches along the lines of "how to beat a polygraph".


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## Overzealous11

GusPolinski said:


> I wouldn't even mention a poly w/o first having some solid monitoring in place. I say that because you want to be on the lookout for any Google (or Bing or whatever) searches along the lines of "how to beat a polygraph".


Well stated.
Thank you.


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## Overzealous11

Tobyboy said:


> On your other thread, your wife is addicted to romance novels........I hope non of those have threesomes in the plot!!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


9 dots and 5 exclamation points.
I appreciate the constructive words in between.


I am trying here.


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## MattMatt

She caused you worry by vanishing over night. Yet seems to shrug her shoulders and says "oh well."

Do you have any children?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sparrow555

Your realize that she is supporting her cheating friend Erica by making bull**** excuses. Find Erica's bf and let him on what is happening. he might be holding back the exact kind of information that you are holding from him. Erica might have told him about your wife;s escapades. 


You were pretty good with the snooping stuff. But your wife looks like she is next level at this stuff. Imagine a future like this


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## TRy

sparrow555 said:


> Your realize that she is supporting her cheating friend Erica by making bull**** excuses. Find Erica's bf and let him on what is happening.


 I do not believe that the other man (OM) was Erica's secret other boyfriend. Erica was just covering for the wife with this lame story. Odds are good that Erica was at the bar with her boyfriend and her boyfriend's friend the OM, when Erica called the wife to join them because Erica wanted the wife to meet the OM. The wife then ended up at the OM's home to spend the night with the OM. Erica then came home with the wife to help with the lie that the wife slept at Erica's house.


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## Sparta

Look you're trying to force something, that does not exist and that is your marriage. She's totally disrespecting you. Your marriage she's not married in her eyes. "She has absolutely no respect you" The marriage doesn't even coming to play. Is far as wife is concerned she is not marriaged. This girl is broken beyond any type of fixing that. Forget about her, Best thing you could do let her go. Tell her, Your actions speak so loudly, I can't even hear what you're saying.! then tell her go head you're free to do what you want. She needs to leave, Go be with whoever you want. I'm giving you your freedom. because that is what she really wants. Do not fight with her or ask her any questions just let her go. Get a lawyer and file for divorce. You need to worry about your kid and your well-being. Next you need find a counselor, you need to figure out, what is going on with you. That you would let anybody treat you like this. This needs to be done ASAP. The sooner you do this sooner you can get on with your life. She will see the change in you. Unfortunately she will become attracted to you again. What you will discover is that you are not attracted to her, and you will see her for who she truly is
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Have you checked the various players facebook pictures? Including Jeremy's, Erica's, Erica's friends and boyfriend?

I think it was suggested before but you need to read the MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER and NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY books asap.

You can download NMMNG free if you google free edition. MMSLP can be downloaded at amazon.com.

GNO's are for women looking for mates. No amount of rationalization is going to change that. The first thing you should have told her is if she ever pulled such a stunt again, the locks would be changed before she came home so not to bother but her stuff would be in the garbage bags on the front porch. I've actually done this BTW and my wife was impressed and pleased. If a woman doesn't want you to be possessive, she doesn't want you.


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## alexm

TRy said:


> I do not believe that the other man (OM) was Erica's secret other boyfriend. Erica was just covering for the wife with this lame story. Odds are good that Erica was at the bar with her boyfriend and her boyfriend's friend the OM, when Erica called the wife to join them because Erica wanted the wife to meet the OM. The wife then ended up at the OM's home to spend the night with the OM. Erica then came home with the wife to help with the lie that the wife slept at Erica's house.


^ This is what I was going to say, exactly, but you beat me to it!

With all due respect, it's so obvious what happened.

OP, the only two things left that are unknown are whether this was a planned meeting or not, and whether your wife slept with this guy or not.

In theory, neither really matter, do they? If it was unplanned, and Erica called that night to say "hey, my bf and I and his friend are all at (bar), want to join?" and she went - leaving you behind, I might add, then that's not good. Normal response in that (unplanned) scenario would be "no thanks, already drinking with the husband and some friends" or "sure, but hubby's with me, cool?"

Second, she MAY truly have been going out just for kicks, with no ulterior motive. She MAY not have slept with this guy, and just crashed on his couch. Entirely possible. But she obviously knew the optics of it (ie. what it would look like to you) and felt she had to cover up. Then later on, buddy FB friend requests her and she thinks nothing of it. I mean, shared account and all, so it's not like the whole thing is super underground. Perhaps to her, he really is just Erica's boyfriends friend.

Then boom, you start to question it. She realizes what it looks like, and enlists her friends help to convince you she's Erica's "other" boyfriend. And now the snowball is careening down the hill.

So theoretically, she did SOMETHING wrong here, but it may not be as bad as you think, or WHAT you think. But it probably was (and I rarely, rarely say that... I'm usually an optimist. Or naive.)

Best case scenario, she wound up in a position that you, or any other sane person, would question, despite her not actually doing anything bad, and therefore felt she needed to cover it up to avoid playing 20 questions.

Worst case scenario, this was set up from the beginning, and her friend is a terrible human being. And I suppose your wife, too.

I'm a bit older than you, OP, but not by a whole lot. You are a few years older than your wife, and your wife is several years older than her friend(s). We've got a 33 year old husband, a 29 year old wife, and her 22 year old unmarried friend. No matter what anybody thinks, there's a maturity gap between those ages. 22 is "get drunk and be stupid, I have my whole life ahead of me". 29 and 33 is not that, especially when married.

The lure of a night out with some college kids OR a hook up with a college kid was obviously quite enticing to your almost-30-year-old wife. Either way, your wife needs a reality check and should probably start to act her age.


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## sparrow555

TRy said:


> I do not believe that the other man (OM) was Erica's secret other boyfriend. Erica was just covering for the wife with this lame story. Odds are good that Erica was at the bar with her boyfriend and her boyfriend's friend the OM, when Erica called the wife to join them because Erica wanted the wife to meet the OM. The wife then ended up at the OM's home to spend the night with the OM. Erica then came home with the wife to help with the lie that the wife slept at Erica's house.


By contacting Erica's bf, he can hit two birds with the same stone. The downside is that the bf can be a massive idiot and could play along with their lie


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## ThePheonix

alexm said:


> Best case scenario, she wound up in a position that you, or any other sane person, would question,


And if it were videoed, some of us would find entertaining to watch.  Hey, when his wife thinks she can stay out all night, can turn off her phone, not make or allow contact as to their whereabouts, while not giving a shyt if he worries about an accident, abduction, etc., you best believe she's was willfully up to something that pushed the envelope. My guess is the GNO became a private party at the girlfriends house. Who knows, maybe her and Erica's got something going on.


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## alexm

ThePheonix said:


> And if it were videoed, some of us would find entertaining to watch.  Hey, when his wife thinks she can stay out all night, can turn off her phone, not make or allow contact as to their whereabouts, while not giving a shyt if he worries about an accident, abduction, etc., you best believe she's was willfully up to something that pushed the envelope. My guess is the GNO became a private party at the girlfriends house. Who knows, maybe her and Erica's got something going on.


It's a possibility, yes, but my point was more that it IS possible she went out drinking with no ulterior motive in mind, had a few too many, wound up crashing/passing out somewhere she wouldn't have while sober, and recognized the optics of it the next morning.

And that's best case scenario.

It doesn't excuse or justify her cover-up later on, of course. In fact, as most adults (should) know, cover ups often make things FAR worse than just coming clean from the start. That's usually something ones parents tell them as soon as they start talking... But obviously many adults still engage in this behaviour (conflict avoidance) out of fear.

I think we've all been in situations in our adult lives where lying/covering up really DOES seem like the optimal solution - and not just in relationships. This may have been one of those situations as far as she was concerned. Doesn't excuse anything, of course, but all the same.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying this DID happen, and I'm not really even playing devil's advocate. I'm saying best case scenario - she f'd up, and then made it worse. Worst case scenario - she REALLY f'd up, and thought she could make it better.

Also, and this is not a justification either, but alcohol does tend to make people lose judgement, and while drunk, have an "I don't really care right now" attitude. That does not always translate into infidelity, but it usually will ensure some sort of decision that one would not normally make.

I can somewhat relate to this exact scenario, as I did pretty much the same damn thing in my late teens. I had a girlfriend at the time, and I went out drinking with some friends - one of them a girl (whom I had zero interest in, fwiw). I wound up crashing on her couch that night, along with her friend, also a girl, who I had just met that evening. While I was okay with passing out on her couch, I was still cognizant of the fact that there was another girl not 5 feet from me, and I didn't exactly fill my then-girlfriend in on this the next day. Should I have? I don't know. I don't recall lying to her about it, more just not divulging all the details. I knew that nothing happened, nor was there any threat of anything happening. Yet I still felt guilty for keeping that from her. Go figure, right?

But the bottom line with OP's story is that this is his wife, they are adults, and that she ultimately did lie, it appears. Whether anything happened or not is actually quite moot. It's either bad, or really bad, was my point.


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## sparrow555

alexm said:


> It's a possibility, yes, but my point was more that it IS possible she went out drinking with no ulterior motive in mind, had a few too many, wound up crashing/passing out somewhere she wouldn't have while sober, and recognized the optics of it the next morning.
> 
> And that's best case scenario.
> 
> It doesn't excuse or justify her cover-up later on, of course. In fact, as most adults (should) know, cover ups often make things FAR worse than just coming clean from the start. That's usually something ones parents tell them as soon as they start talking... But obviously many adults still engage in this behaviour (conflict avoidance) out of fear.
> 
> I think we've all been in situations in our adult lives where lying/covering up really DOES seem like the optimal solution - and not just in relationships. This may have been one of those situations as far as she was concerned. Doesn't excuse anything, of course, but all the same.
> 
> Keep in mind, I'm not saying this DID happen, and I'm not really even playing devil's advocate. I'm saying best case scenario - she f'd up, and then made it worse. Worst case scenario - she REALLY f'd up, and thought she could make it better.
> 
> Also, and this is not a justification either, but alcohol does tend to make people lose judgement, and while drunk, have an "I don't really care right now" attitude. That does not always translate into infidelity, but it usually will ensure some sort of decision that one would not normally make.
> 
> I can somewhat relate to this exact scenario, as I did pretty much the same damn thing in my late teens. I had a girlfriend at the time, and I went out drinking with some friends - one of them a girl (whom I had zero interest in, fwiw). I wound up crashing on her couch that night, along with her friend, also a girl, who I had just met that evening. While I was okay with passing out on her couch, I was still cognizant of the fact that there was another girl not 5 feet from me, and I didn't exactly fill my then-girlfriend in on this the next day. Should I have? I don't know. I don't recall lying to her about it, more just not divulging all the details. I knew that nothing happened, nor was there any threat of anything happening. Yet I still felt guilty for keeping that from her. Go figure, right?
> 
> But the bottom line with OP's story is that this is his wife, they are adults, and that she ultimately did lie, it appears. Whether anything happened or not is actually quite moot. It's either bad, or really bad, was my point.



True but there are a lot more details in this situation than just passing out at a friend's house.


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## Chaparral

ThePheonix said:


> And if it were videoed, some of us would find entertaining to watch.  Hey, when his wife thinks she can stay out all night, can turn off her phone, not make or allow contact as to their whereabouts, while not giving a shyt if he worries about an accident, abduction, etc., you best believe she's was willfully up to something that pushed the envelope. My guess is the GNO became a private party at the girlfriends house. Who knows, maybe her and Erica's got something going on.


The biggest red flag is the turned off phone.

Her googlle ap already places her at the posoms house.........twice. Second time was to get stories straight and maybe a quickie.

She lied to hard and long for this to be a simple faux pas. Something happened.

I hope she doesn't know how you've tracked her.

The polygraph is a must in this case.

Call Erica's boyfriend, just don't accept any thing he says without verification.

Check those facebook pictures and twitter etc.


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## Hoosier

VAR the CAR!!! Listen, a polygraph is more valuable for the information given when the subject is threatened with one. Not definitive (not admissible in court) on results. A VAR is cheaper, easy to obtain, and the information you will get is 100% guaranteed to be her thoughts. Set it up, be patient, try to minimize your interaction with her. Soon you will KNOW.


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## Bobby5000

Direct ways to the truth can be difficult so consider this approach. Apologize to her, tell her you understand there have been some problems in your marriage and you want to make them right. You really want to discuss where things are and if she has complaints about you, you two need to have a serious talk and you will listen. This may loosen her boundaries and make her feel more comfortable speaking in a mutual supportive setting. Perhaps start talking of any concerns of hers. You want to get her into the feeling that if she did stray, the two of you can discuss this in the context of your marriage. 

A friend is a cop and he usually indicates he is trying to help when seeking a confession. I think it is the sense here that something happened that night. Once you find out you can evaluate how to proceed in your marriage.


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## ButtPunch

OZ

How long are you going to keep this up?

I am familiar with your first thread. 

I believe you are codependent. Get counseling.

1. VAR her car immediately. See what you are up against.
2. Set up the polygraph. Gauge her response. 
3. See a lawyer and have her served.
4. File for temporary custody during divorce process. 
5. Get @GusPolinski to show you how to pull the deleted texts off your phone.
6. Your wife has zero respect for you. The above will get you some respect back


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## ButtPunch

Divorce is a long process. It may not come to that but she needs
to think it will. It is the only way to shock her back into reality.


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## TDSC60

What made you think that sending your drunk wife out at 10:30PM to a bar to hang out with a young single girl was the right thing to do?

Asking for trouble on so many levels. Concerns for her safety should have been on your mind.


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## tom67

Overzealous11 said:


> I understand the 7 year itch, and the related biological statements.
> 
> Not funny.


I wasn't being funny I'm dead serious.
Sorry you are here.


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## MRR

yep turning the phone off is pretty drastic. that right there would lead me to NOT ask questions, start digging, and seriously consider filing for divorce.


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## TRy

Chaparral said:


> Have you checked the various players facebook pictures? Including Jeremy's, Erica's, Erica's friends and boyfriend?


 If Jeremy is Facebook friends with Erica's boyfriend, that would be very telling.


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## tom67

TRy said:


> If Jeremy is Facebook friends with Erica's boyfriend, that would be very telling.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## phillybeffandswiss

Since we are being honest, be prepared for the date rape story. "I passed out" sometimes follows "I woke up and my bra, panties etc were missing." Steel yourself because your desire to protect her is going to override your logic center.

Also, when you unblocked him, did you download the archive?


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## Marduk

Here's what you do. Right f'ing now.

#1 stop talking to her. You know she was up to no good and went about it in a totally disrespectful way because honestly man, based on your threads, she knew she could get away with it. She has ZERO respect for you and wants to be single, man. Single with a safety net.

#2 back up every piece of hardware you can in your home -- desktops, laptops, iPads, phones, everything. Back it up offsite. Go get an external USB drive and just do it and take it into the office for deeper analysis later. look up how to recover Facebook archives. I think it sends you a zip file after a few hours or something -- back that up offsite, too. 

#3 call a lawyer and set up an appointment. Today.

When you've done that, come back here, and lots of people can help you with the forensics on the data and advice on how to deal with what you find.

But I'm sorry man, this one is going to be difficult to repair.


----------



## TRy

Overzealous11 said:


> She and Erica come into our house at 9:30am





Overzealous11 said:


> Says that she and Erica drank at the bar, went to Erica's apartment and passed out.





Overzealous11 said:


> The night her phone shuts off at the gas station she hit minutes after leaving the house. It does not turn back on until the next morning at 930am and that location is not Erica's apartment.





Overzealous11 said:


> Just a Erica's BF. I state, Erica's BF is A guy named DJ, we have met several times. A: this is Erica's other BF





Overzealous11 said:


> So she tells me that yes she went to the bar, yes she got drunk, went to Jeremy's with Erica and passed out there.





Overzealous11 said:


> I push and she confesses that she did delete some exchange with Erica but wont exactly say what is was





Overzealous11 said:


> Erica is already a liar in my book





Overzealous11 said:


> Did she boink Jeremy, and him being Erica's side thing a lie to cover? Did she boink a room mate? Did nothing actually happen? Then why the continued string of petty and heavy lies? Did they all have a freaking orgy?!


 In reading what you wrote we know 2 things for sure:

1) Erica is what is called a toxic friend in that she actively arranged the meet up with the other man (OM), is willing to lie to you in order to help your wife cover it up, and plots with your wife behind your back in text messages that your wife needs to delete. Bottom line she is not only not a friend of the marriage, but she is an active enemy of you and your marriage. You wife needs to agree to go full not contact with this toxic friend; this needs to be non-negotiable. If she picks her friendship with this toxic friend over you, then you marriage was coming to an end anyway and now you know.

2) Your wife turning off her phone immediately after she left your house, means that she was up to no good right from the start. From the very beginning she wanted to leave the option open for her to be able to cheat.


----------



## Be smart

Sorry you are here my friend. 

Your wife was drunk and went out with a 22 year old girlfriend who is single and only goal i her life is to get drunk and get ***ed.

She never called you. She turned off her phone. Showed up at your house around 10 with her "friend" Erica and both of them got a nice little story for you.

After this she blocked this Jeremy guy from your shared facebook profil. (hiding it from you)
She never apologized to you. She called you CRAZY.

Is this good wife who loves and respect her husband???

Did you ever asked yourself why she never go out with Erica anymore ?

My opinion is that you will never find out the truth. She lied once to you so what is stoping her to lie over and over again.

Sorry to say this but you can find women like her here in Amsterdam for 50-100 euros and they will be honest with you.


----------



## Overzealous11

Be smart said:


> Sorry you are here my friend.
> 
> Your wife was drunk and went out with a 22 year old girlfriend who is single and only goal i her life is to get drunk and get ***ed.
> 
> She never called you. She turned off her phone. Showed up at your house around 10 with her "friend" Erica and both of them got a nice little story for you.
> 
> After this she blocked this Jeremy guy from your shared facebook profil. (hiding it from you)
> She never apologized to you. She called you CRAZY.
> 
> Is this good wife who loves and respect her husband???
> 
> Did you ever asked yourself why she never go out with Erica anymore ?
> 
> My opinion is that you will never find out the truth. She lied once to you so what is stoping her to lie over and over again.
> 
> Sorry to say this but you can find women like her here in Amsterdam for 50-100 euros and they will be honest with you.


Thank you for your honesty, and everyone else's.
Appreciate anyone logging on, reading, and replying during the holiday.


----------



## alte Dame

TRy said:


> I do not believe that the other man (OM) was Erica's secret other boyfriend. Erica was just covering for the wife with this lame story. Odds are good that Erica was at the bar with her boyfriend and her boyfriend's friend the OM, when Erica called the wife to join them because Erica wanted the wife to meet the OM. The wife then ended up at the OM's home to spend the night with the OM. Erica then came home with the wife to help with the lie that the wife slept at Erica's house.


I think this ^^ makes the most sense.

I will tell you, OverZ, if my H EVER turned off his phone and stayed out all night, I would kick him out immediately.

Why did you put up with it at all? If she passed out, why was her phone off? She's full of lies and her toxic friend is enabling and covering.

Be tough. Poly, STD check, divorce papers prepared. She's full of sh!t.


----------



## TDSC60

The fact that she turned her phone off and left it off all night long tells you she was intentionally up to no good and intended to hide her location from you.

Two drunken women who get smashed at a bar and make their way back to a house do not have the presence of mind to turn their phones off before passing out.

This whole story is BS and the guy was involved that night.


----------



## farsidejunky

OZ:

Why did this not come up in your other thread? This really changes the picture tremendously.


----------



## GusPolinski

farsidejunky said:


> OZ:
> 
> Why did this not come up in your other thread? This really changes the picture tremendously.


I was wondering the same thing myself.


----------



## Sparta

Wow that's your update, honestly I feel sorry guys like him and there's a lot of them Mr. nice guy syndrome. This whole sh*t storm he's going through is taking it's toll on him. Most likely probably losing it. And rightfully so. OP the situation that you're in right now. Basically the result for his lack of action. You're not doing anything to improve your situation. 0P what's up with your last post. Let me know if I'm wrong but, based on your last post. Seemed just a little bit cynical. honestly would like to see you move forward and get past this. You got to put your foot down and say no more. Honestly buddy I hope you're not thinking about R do not focus or waste your time on useless thoughts. OP need to divorce her then go NC ... By you separating yourself from her, 0P you will be able to focus easier. Your ability to process your thoughts on your situation and that will be the start of your new life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Overzealous11

GusPolinski said:


> I was wondering the same thing myself.


At the time, my first post on TAM was what I was dealing with in that moment. I had either, buried or ignored the situation from months ago, and tried to move on. 

For some reason, I don't know if it's the holidays, or have time alone to think (on vacation) but everything just came rushing back about that situation. Work and life have been tremendously busy since that time. My 3rd and 4th quarters are always slammed, kids back in school, wife working - that this week I had time to me and to reflect.


----------



## Overzealous11

Sparta said:


> Wow that's your update, honestly I feel sorry guys like him and there's a lot of them Mr. nice guy syndrome. This whole sh*t storm he's going through is taking it's toll on him. Most likely probably losing it. And rightfully so. OP the situation that you're in right now. Basically the result for his lack of action. You're not doing anything to improve your situation. 0P what's up with your last post. Let me know if I'm wrong but, based on your last post. Seemed just a little bit cynical. honestly would like to see you move forward and get past this. You got to put your foot down and say no more. Honestly buddy I hope you're not thinking about R do not focus or waste your time on useless thoughts. OP need to divorce her then go NC ... By you separating yourself from her, 0P you will be able to focus easier. Your ability to process your thoughts on your situation and that will be the start of your new life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I did not mean to come of cynical, just surprised at how many responses were given, since it's Christmas week and what not. 

I don't even have a real 'update' per se to give just yet

My plan is to make it through these next few days with family in/out and have a level headed confrontation. 

What is R and NC.


----------



## jld

How about just putting everything out there, openly and honestly?

If you want to divorce, just say so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MRR

He doesnt want to divorce, he wants to rugsweep and blame himself and then find a way to get her to be nicer to him and forget all this happened. But that is wishful thinking, plus enabling/allowing her to continue being sh*tty. All this needs to be addressed. Combined with the other thread, this woman doesnt deserve your time based on recent past behaviour.


----------



## farsidejunky

jld said:


> How about just putting everything out there, openly and honestly?
> 
> If you want to divorce, just say so.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think he wants honesty.

I do not see him getting it from her without drastic measures.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## bandit.45

Overzealous11 said:


> Thank you for your honesty, and everyone else's.
> Appreciate anyone logging on, reading, and replying during the holiday.


Well we appreciate that you appreciate it....

So what are you gonna do?


----------



## Overzealous11

MRR said:


> He doesnt want to divorce, he wants to rugsweep and blame himself and then find a way to get her to be nicer to him and forget all this happened. But that is wishful thinking, plus enabling/allowing her to continue being sh*tty. All this needs to be addressed. Combined with the other thread, this woman doesnt deserve your time based on recent past behaviour.


You are partially correct. I do not 'want' a divorce, but know that is one of two options. I do not want to rugsweep nor blame myself. 

It all just really freakin sucks.


----------



## jld

farsidejunky said:


> I think he wants honesty.
> 
> I do not see him getting it from her without drastic measures.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


If he is not satisfied with her answers, I think he should just proceed with the divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

180 time. Start detaching. Get your ducks in a row, then confront. Ask her to take a polygraph.


----------



## Overzealous11

bandit.45 said:


> Well we appreciate that you appreciate it....
> 
> So what are you gonna do?



No effing clue.

Would really like definitive proof of something. As others have mentioned, I may not and will more than likely not achieve that. 

Thought about taking the phone to a computer shop to get the SMS texts off of it. Thought about talking to DJ to see if he can at least verify that Jeremy was indeed Erica's side guy and that's why they broke up. 

Not having any proof other than the items I posted in this thread don't give me enough backing to pull a trigger one way or another.


----------



## jld

Overzealous11 said:


> You are partially correct. I do not 'want' a divorce, but know that is one of two options. I do not want to rugsweep nor blame myself.
> 
> It all just really freakin sucks.


You two may just not be compatible, Oz.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Overzealous11

bandit.45 said:


> 180 time. Start detaching. Get your ducks in a row, then confront. Ask her to take a polygraph.


This is more in line. I want to be completely prepared upon confrontation, and prepared for divorce should it come to that.


----------



## jld

Overzealous11 said:


> Not having any proof other than the items I posted in this thread don't give me enough backing to pull a trigger one way or another.


Why is it not enough?

You know you do not trust her, and you know you have compatibility issues. You may each not be best suited to be each other's lifetime partners.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Overzealous11 said:


> This is more in line. I want to be completely prepared upon confrontation, and prepared for divorce should it come to that.


Do you have the 180 list?


----------



## farsidejunky

bandit.45 said:


> 180 time. Start detaching. Get your ducks in a row, then confront. Ask her to take a polygraph.


He does not have $hit to confront with, Bandit.

He has already done a soft confront. She schooled him.


Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky

jld said:


> Why is it not enough?
> 
> You know you do not trust her, and you know you have compatibility issues. You may each not be best suited to be each other's lifetime partners.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with this.

OZ, I give her one last opportunity to come clean. If she denies or gaslights, tell her you know she is lying, and you cannot remain married to someone you do not trust. Tell her you will be consulting an attorney (have the appointment set up in advance of the conversation) and to start thinking about how to divide assets.

Then file. Have her served, but discreetly. No fanfare. Not in public. At that point, she will show you how much she values the marriage.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Also, when you unblocked him, did you download the archive?


Did you do this yet?


----------



## bandit.45

farsidejunky said:


> He does not have $hit to confront with, Bandit.
> 
> He has already done a soft confront. She schooled him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Oh I agree. He can confront anyways. He can use the logic we have put before him to tell her that her story is a bunch of bullsh!t and that if she does not tell him the truth it is divorce time. If she denies he can ask her to submit to a poly. 

But given how she has treated him, he needs to 180 and detach from her emotionally, so he can get his head clear and make logical decisions about what he wants to do next.


----------



## Overzealous11

bandit.45 said:


> Do you have the 180 list?


Yes I believe so, and a copy of NO More Mr. Nice Guy.


----------



## Overzealous11

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Did you do this yet?


Yes I did this in August when things began to trickle truth out.


----------



## Overzealous11

farsidejunky said:


> He does not have $hit to confront with, Bandit.
> 
> He has already done a soft confront. She schooled him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk




This is how i feel, schooled. And not my style with any of this drama.
But I do have "something" to confront her with, but it's all the same crap that I confronted her with months ago. She could easily just fall back on the same set of lies - flip it on me about being paranoid or crazy - and then I just serve her.

The poly sounds like the last ditch play before D papers. But if I had any amount of evidence in addition to catching her lying, it would make confronting much for solid for me.


----------



## alte Dame

farsidejunky said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> OZ, I give her one last opportunity to come clean. If she denies or gaslights, tell her you know she is lying, and you cannot remain married to someone you do not trust. Tell her you will be consulting an attorney (have the appointment set up in advance of the conversation) and to start thinking about how to divide assets.
> 
> Then file. Have her served, but discreetly. No fanfare. Not in public. At that point, she will show you how much she values the marriage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Do this and start with the 180, as bandit recommended:

The Healing Heart: The 180

(Even if her bs story has some truth to it, the fact that she stayed out all night is super serious. If I had gotten so drunk as to pass out and not go home, I would have been on my knees begging my H to try to understand and not leave me. I would have moved heaven and earth to prove my story and get another chance.)


----------



## bandit.45

*The 180*

_
So many on here are at a loss at what to do with a WS who is
fence sitting, cake-eating, ignoring boundaries, still seeing and/or contacting the other person, etc...

Many BS's are urged to go No Contact with their WS after ALL ELSE has failed.


This 180 list may help.
--------------------------


For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow him/her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say "I Love You".

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient.

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing_


*The parts in red are the parts which I believe are the most salient. But each item is important. Make the 180 your Bible. Read it every day before you go to work and every night before you go to bed. Get every item ingrained in your psyche, so that over the next few weeks it becomes natural. 

And the NMMNG book helps too.*


----------



## Overzealous11

GusPolinski said:


> She's lying.
> 
> What model Android does she use?


Not sure if I answered this.

Samsung Alcatel 
Running Kit Kat 4.4.44
Pop Astro system

Tried for hours to root so I could recover deleted SMS and it was impossible.

It is her old phone from when this was all going on, so I have full access to it.


----------



## Overzealous11

Overzealous11 said:


> Well f word.
> So many calls for a poly - where do you get one?
> Cost?
> Getting tested tomorrow.



Has anyone ever initiated a polygraph with a spouse? I have never heard of it being used other than the movies. Any advice on how this takes place or point me in a direction for guidance would be awesome.


----------



## bandit.45

There are polygraph companies in just about every metropolitan area. Cost can range from $500 to $1,000 a session. 

I think it would be a good investment to spend what it takes to get her to spill the beans. How much is your piece of mind worth to you? 

And by the way, I am a recovering alcoholic. More precisely, I am a binge drinker. I can honestly tell you that I have never been so drunk where I have forgotten the details of the things I did while drunk. 

You wife is lying to you whenever she claims she did not remember the details of what happened.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

You've caught her in lies. Sorry, but the 180 is the way to go. I disagree with the other to posters, you have plenty of proof, but you want a smoking gun. We all get it. No one wants to end a marriage without tangible evidence. Still, lie after lie after lie, phones turned off, bar hopping, meeting a random dude, a drunken pass out with random dude, multiple different stories and guilt thrown your way with no remorse? That's PLENTY of proof. You're scared and that's okay, but there is no way I'd live in turmoil for six months. I did it for 2 months. I cajoled, argued, became upset and then printed out divorce papers and said "get the **@#$% out of MY HOUSE, I'm not living with a liar." Yes, right before Christmas as well.

Stand up for yourself, no soft ultimatums and rewrites.


----------



## alte Dame

The poly is a very common tool for intractable cases of infidelity. You will see many descriptions on threads here (just search the word for the site), as well as countless posts on other sites. It is common for the BS to start with the local police for recommendations. There is also a wealth of information for you if you start with simply googling for your area.

Also, remember that the polygraph for infidelity is a powerful lever for you. It is a way of forcing the hand of the WS when it becomes clear that you are not getting the truth and will never get it. Many BS's don't need to follow through with the poly because the threat of one seems to magically encourage the WS to come clean. These are typically called 'parking lot confessions' because they tend to occur just as the poly is to take place.

(I would go through with the poly no matter what in any case. WS's will continue to trickle truth even in the parking lot confession.)


----------



## GusPolinski

Overzealous11 said:


> Not sure if I answered this.
> 
> Samsung Alcatel
> Running Kit Kat 4.4.44
> Pop Astro system
> 
> Tried for hours to root so I could recover deleted SMS and it was impossible.


Can't find much on that one.



Overzealous11 said:


> It is her old phone from when this was all going on, so I have full access to it.


What kind of phone is she using now?


----------



## GusPolinski

Overzealous11 said:


> Has anyone ever initiated a polygraph with a spouse? I have never heard of it being used other than the movies. Any advice on how this takes place or point me in a direction for guidance would be awesome.


Well, again...



GusPolinski said:


> I wouldn't even mention a poly w/o first having some solid monitoring in place. I say that because you want to be on the lookout for any Google (or Bing or whatever) searches along the lines of "how to beat a polygraph".


----------



## farsidejunky

OZ:

If you decide on a poly, you want to have tools in place to track her search history, e.g. "how to beat a poly". 

Also, the poly is powerful, but often what happens is the "parking lot confession", where the pressure gets to her just before entering the building, and she proceeds to tell you all of the truth.

Just some food for thought.

Or you could just file, 180, and create a clear path for her to stop the process by providing 100% honesty.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Overzealous11

GusPolinski said:


> What kind of phone is she using now?


Samsung Galaxy 
Not sure other than that, it's big and new. I use iphones for work, never had an android so I don't know them well.


----------



## Overzealous11

farsidejunky said:


> OZ:
> 
> If you decide on a poly, you want to have tools in place to track her search history, e.g. "how to beat a poly".
> 
> Also, the poly is powerful, but often what happens is the "parking lot confession", where the pressure gets to her just before entering the building, and she proceeds to tell you all of the truth.
> 
> Just some food for thought.
> 
> Or you could just file, 180, and create a clear path for her to stop the process by providing 100% honesty.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk



I don't plan on scheduling the poly until a few weeks out, and do not plan on giving her ample heads up either. 

As Gus indicated, gather data before pulling the trigger with a poly.


----------



## bandit.45

Overzealous11 said:


> I don't plan on scheduling the poly until a few weeks out, and do not plan on giving her ample heads up either.
> 
> As Gus indicated, gather data before pulling the trigger with a poly.


Make a plan and stick to it. Have backup contingencies also, in case you find out more than you thought you would.


----------



## Popcorn2015

Overzealous11 said:


> Would really like definitive proof of something.
> 
> Not having any proof other than the items I posted in this thread don't give me enough backing to pull a trigger one way or another.


Your wife went out to a bar, got drunk, turned off her phone, went over the house of an attractive man, and spent the night there. The next morning she turned her phone on again and came back to your house.

If you don't think that's proof that she had sex with him, you wouldn't consider full-color HD video from the guy's bedroom proof either, because hey, it could be faked.

It sounds like what you want isn't proof, but a confession. For that, go with the polygraph. 

Also get tested for STDs.


----------



## ButtPunch

VAR her car. Tell her she is lying and you are going to ask the DJ and toxic friends boyfriend. 

She will call the friend. Time it before she goes to work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LosingHim

Popcorn2015 said:


> Your wife went out to a bar, got drunk, turned off her phone, went over the house of an attractive man, and spent the night there. The next morning she turned her phone on again and came back to your house.
> 
> If you don't think that's proof that she had sex with him, you wouldn't consider full-color HD video from the guy's bedroom proof either, because hey, it could be faked.
> 
> It sounds like what you want isn't proof, but a confession. For that, go with the polygraph.
> 
> Also get tested for STDs.


Something that MAY work......confront her as if you know. Don't say "I think you slept with ______" don't say "I think you screwed around".

Say I KNOW. Obviously you don't know, but she doesn't know you don't know. Tell her you have proof. She doesn't need to know where you got proof. Or that you don't have it.

I don't promote playing games, but in this case maybe play the game that you already have proof.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

^^^Too late, he soft confronted like many of us did. The element of surprise, with the continued questioning, wouldn't work. She already knows he has nothing.


----------



## Overzealous11

Popcorn2015 said:


> Your wife went out to a bar, got drunk, turned off her phone, went over the house of an attractive man, and spent the night there. The next morning she turned her phone on again and came back to your house.
> 
> If you don't think that's proof that she had sex with him, you wouldn't consider full-color HD video from the guy's bedroom proof either, because hey, it could be faked.
> 
> It sounds like what you want isn't proof, but a confession. For that, go with the polygraph.
> 
> Also get tested for STDs.


Trying to give benefit of the doubt, and admittedly have been in denial. Proof or confession...just want the truth.

Freaking sucks trying to keep my game face with incoming family and going to other's houses.

The 180 highlighted red really helps.


----------



## Overzealous11

phillybeffandswiss said:


> ^^^Too late, he soft confronted like many of us did. The element of surprise, with the continued questioning, wouldn't work. She already knows he has nothing.



I was going so crazy in my own mind when all of the lies came to light, my confrontation was not methodical, strategic, and too emotional. Wish I would have ran to this site when this all happened. Lord would the outcome have been more professional and deliberate.


----------



## JohnA

Hi OZ,

Read your other thread. Bye the way these two threads are a very good example of trickle truth. Is there more we should know?

You mentioned the sex was still good between the two of you, is that still the case? You also mentioned a somewhat 50 shades of gray element has developed.

Who are the circle of friends you mentioned in this thread? How did she meet them? How often do they get together? 

Why do you not have a post divorce life in place? I am not urging you to divorce, I am asking the game plan if you do.


----------



## bandit.45

Popcorn2015 said:


> Your wife went out to a bar, got drunk, turned off her phone, went over the house of an attractive man, and spent the night there. The next morning she turned her phone on again and came back to your house.


There it is. ^^^^^


I changed it a bit. Type this out and print it.... Stick it on her mirror: 

*
You went out to a bar, got drunk, turned off your phone, went over the house of an attractive man, and spent the night there. The next morning you turned your phone on again and came back to our house.*


That is what you tell her. And you keep telling her this as she is throwing lie after lie at you. You just stick to this. She cannot avoid it or explain it away. Keep it up with this ^^^^.


----------



## Overzealous11

JohnA said:


> Hi OZ,
> 
> Read your other thread. Bye the way these two threads are a very good example of trickle truth. Is there more we should know?
> 
> You mentioned the sex was still good between the two of you, is that still the case? You also mentioned a somewhat 50 shades of gray element has developed.
> 
> Who are the circle of friends you mentioned in this thread? How did she meet them? How often do they get together?
> 
> Why do you not have a post divorce life in place? I am not urging you to divorce, I am asking the game plan if you do.


I never came her to trickle truth. I just learned the term yesterday when posting on another site about this problem.

The original reason I came to TAM was my original post. Never put myself out there on the internet, let alone my marital issues. Tried to stay focused on the topic of my original post. 

The sex is still good, we both have HDs.
There was not a 50 shades element in the bedroom - I used that book to make an anology to her other reading material. 

To answer your questions....

Circle of friends: Erica - nursing school friend. Known her for years, went out with her and her boyfriend DJ twice in 3 years. 
DJ and she were always rocky (being in very early 20s) Heard about their relationship drama over the years. He cheated, they broke up. She took him back. Jeremy is a guy who Erica hooked up with while on a break with DJ. I cannot validate that statement with 100% certainty as I don't hang with any of them. 

She has never gone out with Erica alone except that one night. They did lunches during nursing school. But since my wife started working 6 months ago, she comes straight home from the hospital and never really ever went out. Never ever did the bar scene in the 10 years together. 

Post divorce life? I have a very supportive and stable family that would assist financially with the divorce and with any help with children. I have a great job and income, low mortgage and no outstanding debt. I am a very stable person, good father etc. I have contemplated post divorce life - and I don't feel it to be overwhelmingly daunting. Though to actually file the papers and serve her, I am sure that statement will morph.


----------



## Overzealous11

bandit.45 said:


> There it is. ^^^^^
> 
> 
> I changed it a bit. Type this out and print it.... Stick it on her mirror:
> 
> *
> You went out to a bar, got drunk, turned off your phone, went over the house of an attractive man, and spent the night there. The next morning you turned your phone on again and came back to our house.*
> 
> 
> That is what you tell her. And you keep telling her this as she is throwing lie after lie at you. You just stick to this. She cannot avoid it or explain it away. Keep it up with this ^^^^.



Thank you Bandit for this and the highlighted 180.


----------



## bandit.45

Overzealous11 said:


> Thank you Bandit for this and the highlighted 180.


Cut through the bullsh!t. Break it down to it's bare elements. She cannot explain the facts away.


----------



## TDSC60

From what I have read, you have proof of everything Bandit said.

Unfortunately, there has to be much more to the story because she continues to lie to you.

Odds are, she had drunken sex with someone. Thus the continued attempt to cover up the events of that night.

Sorry.


----------



## anchorwatch

Overzealous, @bandit.45 is right. 

The 180 can keep you in control, not her.

Familiarize yourself with how she turns it on you. Here... Presto, Change-o, DARVO: Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender

You'ii need this too... No More Mr Nice Guy

Best


----------



## TRy

Popcorn2015 said:


> Your wife went out to a bar, got drunk, turned off her phone, went over the house of an attractive man, and spent the night there. The next morning she turned her phone on again and came back to your house.


 Actually, it is worse than that, because the wife turned off her phone when she left the house. This means that she was up to no good right from the start. This meeting with the other guy was planned. She also lied about where she spent the night complete with bringing her friend home to sell him on the lie.

Thus it should read "Your wife turned off her phone, went out to a bar, got drunk, went over the house of an attractive man, and spent the night there. The next morning she turned her phone on again and came back to your house with her friend, so that she could sell the lie that she spent the night at the friend's house. She was being dishonest with you from start to finish."


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Overzealous11 said:


> Wish I would have ran to this site when this all happened. Lord would the outcome have been more professional and deliberate.


It is not too late overall. You have other avenues even after a soft confront. I am only talking about LH's hard confront with the little you have now. 

Many of us soft confronted, you are not the only one. Now, you have support to get it right and either restart or end your marriage.


----------



## bandit.45

There are no rules for this. Just because he soft confronted once doesn't mean he cannot revisit it and confront her again.


----------



## Overzealous11

TRy said:


> Actually, it is worse than that, because the wife turned off her phone when she left the house. This means that she was up to no good right from the start. This meeting with the other guy was planned. She also lied about where she spent the night complete with bringing her friend home to sell him on the lie.
> 
> Thus it should read "Your wife turned off her phone, went out to a bar, got drunk, went over the house of an attractive man, and spent the night there. The next morning she turned her phone on again and came back to your house with her friend, so that she could sell the lie that she spent the night at the friend's house. She was being dishonest with you from start to finish."


Damnit.


----------



## bandit.45

Overzealous11 said:


> Damnit.


Yeah.. 

See, once you start to really examine the timeline, nothing she says to you holds water. That is why you need to stick with us brother. We will lead you out if the darkness and into the light.


----------



## Tobyboy

Also, she went back to Jeremy's a second time, a week later to pick up her stuff. She lied about that too!! What exactly did she pick up?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Tobyboy said:


> Also, she went back to Jeremy's a second time, a week later to pick up her stuff. She lied about that too!! What exactly did she pick up?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Her underwear probably.


----------



## JohnA

Thanks for the reply OZ. The fact you have analyze a post divorce life and are good with it puts you miles ahead of most posters when they come here. Having a plan B wether it is a post divorce life in place or alternated employment line up is important. 

Does your wife's job require shift rotation? I realize it might not sound relevant but it may become so. Does she work with her friend? The GNO was it a one time thing or an occasional? 

It is disturbing the attitude your wife has adopted. Your concerns are legit. Her saying you are nuts is wrong.

Remember at all times: while issues are real and need to be worked on, they are never a reason or justification for adultery. The combination of the two will cause a marriage to implode because the BS is hindered by the adultery from working on the issues.

Finally what does your wife do with your boys?


----------



## Overzealous11

Tobyboy said:


> Also, she went back to Jeremy's a second time, a week later to pick up her stuff. She lied about that too!! What exactly did she pick up?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A few texts were exchanged with Erica right before she arrived that afternoon, indicating that Erica was at Jeremys and for my wife to come pick up her stuff.

I honestly cannot remember what she said she went to pick up, as when I found out, I was seriously reeling in my head. 

Last night, I went back through all my screen shots that I had sent and forgot about that exchange.


----------



## Overzealous11

bandit.45 said:


> Her underwear probably.


Geez bandit!!

>>


----------



## bandit.45

Overzealous11 said:


> Geez bandit!!
> 
> >>


You have to expect the worst my friend. Hope for the best, expect the worst. In these cases it is usually the worst.


----------



## Overzealous11

JohnA said:


> Does your wife's job require shift rotation? I realize it might not sound relevant but it may become so. Does she work with her friend? The GNO was it a one time thing or an occasional?
> 
> 
> 
> Finally what does your wife do with your boys?



What is GNO?
She does not work with friend, and works 12 hour shifts. Rotating nurse type schedule 3-4 days a week. 

Please clarify your question, on what she does with the boys?


----------



## bandit.45

Rule: avoid women who work in nursing, education and law enforcement. Just stay away from women who work in those fields.


----------



## bandit.45

Overzealous11 said:


> What is GNO?
> She does not work with friend, and works 12 hour shifts. Rotating nurse type schedule 3-4 days a week.
> 
> Please clarify your question, on what she does with the boys?


GNO - Girls' Night Out. Hen Parties. Often to nightclubs where single men hit on women.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Overzealous11 said:


> Damnit.


Yes, this is not the place to come for hand holding and kumbaya. You'll get support, but it is gong to be unclouded and with 2x4s.


----------



## Tobyboy

Have you check your wife's call/text records online?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## deg20

Rule: avoid women who work in nursing, education and law enforcement. Just stay away from women who work in those fields. 




I hate to stereotype and be biased, but this above statement is so true...from what I experienced anyway...it's the same for men in those fields. For some reason, those big three seem to be a breeding ground for infidelity and temptation...

now, back to our regularly scheduled program...sorry for the slight stray















|


----------



## JohnA

Hi OZ,

Sent you a PM with two links. Please let me know if yo recieved it.

During a typical week what does your wife do with your sons? What does she do around the house? 

Finally get a cleaning service. It is not good that either of you spend a lot of time on household duties now that she is working. Not to do so is foolish.


----------



## Overzealous11

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes, this is not the place to come for hand holding and kumbaya. You'll get support, but it is gong to be unclouded and with 2x4s.


Growing some bark on my tree to read it.
Thanks for the gut check all.


----------



## JohnA

Also does her shift include overnights?


----------



## Overzealous11

Tobyboy said:


> Have you check your wife's call/text records online?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Since she got her new phone, I helped set up on the online billing and opted for extra billing info.

Therefore I can see all calls, times, and length.
And text messages numbers and times.
But cannot read the actual texts.
Plus I read somewhere here or elsewhere, that real cheaters use hidden apps. Either way, nothing damning to be found as I have cross referenced numbers with her old address book from old phone. 
And since she got a free tablet pre-synched with her phone, I can see her GPS in the maps app on the tablet. Nothing to be found since the new phone plan 1st of November....


----------



## Overzealous11

JohnA said:


> Also does her shift include overnights?


No never
7a - 7pm


----------



## Tobyboy

Overzealous11 said:


> Since she got her new phone, I helped set up on the online billing and opted for extra billing info.
> 
> Therefore I can see all calls, times, and length.
> And text messages numbers and times.
> But cannot read the actual texts.
> Plus I read somewhere here or elsewhere, that real cheaters use hidden apps. Either way, nothing damning to be found as I have cross referenced numbers with her old address book from old phone.
> And since she got a free tablet pre-synched with her phone, I can see her GPS in the maps app on the tablet. Nothing to be found since the new phone plan 1st of November....


Can you look back as far as August when all this went down?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Overzealous11

JohnA said:


> Hi OZ,
> 
> Sent you a PM with two links. Please let me know if yo recieved it.
> 
> During a typical week what does your wife do with your sons? What does she do around the house?
> 
> Finally get a cleaning service. It is not good that either of you spend a lot of time on household duties now that she is working. Not to do so is foolish.


Thanks, got them.
Kind of skipped the newbie thread and went straight to posting. Giving it a whirl today to read. 


She is pretty laid back and hands off truly. She helps somewhat with homework, but I have always maintained higher standards for most things (homework, housework etc) She has never been a tidy person, where I am organized and hate clutter. 


Let's see how this confrontation goes before I commit to paying out to a cleaning service. But from my previous thread, this was a suggestion that I will take seriously.


----------



## Overzealous11

Tobyboy said:


> Can you look back as far as August when all this went down?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No.
I have her old phone but have been unsuccessful to root and retrieve SMS messages. Need help with this.


----------



## farsidejunky

He meant the phone records I think.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## JohnA

What else does she do ? Read to them, hugs them, make dinner? There has to be something. Are you so focus on what bugs you that you are blind to everything else?

You and she were 23 and 19 when she got pregnant and married a year after your son's birth. Is he the reason the only reason the two of you got married?


----------



## Overzealous11

farsidejunky said:


> He meant the phone records I think.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


No, unfortunately.


----------



## Overzealous11

JohnA said:


> What else does she do ? Read to them, hugs them, make dinner? There has to be something. Are you so focus on what bugs you that you are blind to everything else?
> 
> You and she were 23 and 19 when she got pregnant and married a year after your son's birth. Is he the reason the only reason the two of you got married?


She is a great mom, reads, hugs, loves, expresses herself well, great role model, smart, loving, kind, fun, funny, chill. Cooks somewhat, promotes a healthy diet, spiritual and somewhat religious.
Nothing in that arena is a glaring issue. 
Not blind to those great qualities.

Not the only reason at all. Saw her as someone I could be in my 50s with, and would make a great mom, lover, friend. We were friends before relationship began.


----------



## TRy

Overzealous11 said:


> She is a great mom, reads, hugs, loves, expresses herself well, great role model, smart, loving, kind, fun, funny, chill. Cooks somewhat, promotes a healthy diet, spiritual and somewhat religious.


 This could all be true (accept for the "great role mode;" part), but this has nothing to do with if she is a cheater or not. Many cheaters are otherwise great people, but are incapable of respecting their marriage vows and always telling the truth.


----------



## Overzealous11

TRy said:


> Overzealous11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She is a great mom, reads, hugs, loves, expresses herself well, great role model, smart, loving, kind, fun, funny, chill. Cooks somewhat, promotes a healthy diet, spiritual and somewhat religious.
> 
> 
> 
> This could all be true (accept for the "great role mode;" part), but this has nothing to do with if she is a cheater or not. Many cheaters are otherwise great people, but are incapable of respecting their marriage vows and always telling the truth.
Click to expand...

I know right?
Her fam just got here
Reading the 180 now


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

JohnA said:


> What else does she do ?


 Doesn't matter at this point.



> Read to them, hugs them, make dinner?


 Doesn't matter at this point.



> There has to be something.


 Doesn't matter at this point. 



> Are you so focus on what bugs you that you are blind to everything else?


LOL Bugs him and being blind? Why are you minimizing? This is where things get rocky and it should be his focus.


----------



## Overzealous11

JohnA asked, I am just answering to what she does for the kids.
By no means minimizing any of this.


----------



## JohnA

Philly, 

I asked because until he gave an answer I saw no need on to reconcile. In fact losing her was a plus FR him and the kids. Sorry but "I love them is not a reason to stay,".


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Overzealous11 said:


> JohnA asked, I am just answering to what she does for the kids.
> By no means minimizing any of this.


Those are all his quotes not yours. I was not addressing you at all. 

JohnA's questions are irrelevant until you know the true issue and where she stands. You focus on reconciliation when you are satisfied the lies are minimal or non-existent and the person shows remorse. Your wife is actively lying, even if she is a wonderful mom to the children those are separate issues.


----------



## Overzealous11

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Overzealous11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> JohnA asked, I am just answering to what she does for the kids.
> By no means minimizing any of this.
> 
> 
> 
> Those are all his quotes not yours. I was not addressing you at all.
> 
> JohnA's questions are irrelevant until you know the true issue and where she stands. You focus on reconciliation when you are satisfied the lies are minimal or non-existent and the person shows remorse. Your wife is actively lying, even if she is a wonderful mom to the children those are separate issues.
Click to expand...

Gawwtcha....gotcha


----------



## JohnA

Hi, Philly and I often appear to be at odds, but are closer then most people might think. A while ago we got into a discussion of what is an affair. I always use the term adultery. I can have an affair with a women but if ether of us is married it is adultery. To me an affair can be no big deal. Adultery is more then a big deal. It is an A bomb a person used to destroy another's life. It is evil.

In your case yes her possible adultery is foremost but the question of even why bother is just as important.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

No, you seem to be at odds because you miss other people's point for your own. Semantics and differing definitions have nothing to do with my point. The caveat of "just as important" is irrelevant and a personal opinion at this stage.


This is why many betrayed get sidetracked, they focus on too many things at once. He knows she lied, but only she knows what really happened. Focusing on division of assets, reconciliation, the why, what to do next, should I divorce, should I stay for the kids and "why bother" are all things that can come later. If he wanted out 100%, he'd be gone and not posting looking for advice.

He wants to know, some people need the smoking gun and that should be his primary focus. The quicker this is solved the faster he can move to the next stage of decisions.


----------



## gouge_away

I have been in a few situations where I went out drinking, ended up at a friend's significant other's house, and passed out on the couch while they did whatever drunk kids do. This actually happened quite often, never while I was married, couple times when I lived with a girl, but I always messaged her or talked about what was going on.

Did your wife at least appear to have gotten some rest the morning she came home at 9:30? If not, she did a lot more than pass out on his couch.


----------



## sidney2718

bandit.45 said:


> Cut through the bullsh!t. Break it down to it's bare elements. She cannot explain the facts away.


There is another point. if she was on the up and up, she would have called OZ when she left the bar and again later when she decided to stay out overnight. She did neither.


----------



## workindad

OP-
Best case scenario; your wife has proven with her actions that she has no issue manipulating you and lying to you in order to do the little secret things she wants to on the side- get drunk and stay at some other dudes house, then sneak back to see him again a while later. I agree with Bandit- she was probably getting her panties back, or went for a quick second rompfest.

With the way she turned off her phone and involved her toxic friend in the lie- dang, she's good at this behavior. That's pretty clever for a first timer...

Just because she work 12-hour shifts doesn't mean that he doesn't "visit" her on her breaks. 

If you do decide to R. Her toxic friend needs to go.


----------



## JohnA

No Philly, this is not a case of Semantics. I understand what and why you are saying and agree with it. But I also think at the same time he needs to consider two other things. Let me be clear

1.) the first thing a BS must do is secure a post divorce life. They must consult with a lawyer and come up a clear game plan to get 
The hell out. I asked OP earlier in his thread if he had. He answered yes and I think he is golden with no alimony and 70/30 custody with him the 70 and him getting child support from him. Fear of the unknown or change cripples people. 

2.) to reconcile is hard. Why even try if there is nothing worth saving. For the kids or because I love them are piss poor answers. Anyone who gives this answer is whistling in the dark ad begging to get abused. Anyone who try's to reconcile without understanding the pit falls ahead and without a clear goal will fail and get screwed over four times worse.

3.). While doing the first two verify what happened. Read and follow http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html. I agree with bandit about her behavior. Even if nothing happened - I would personally end a relationship and if married tell my spouse - if you really think that we need a divorce now before things get really ugly and present my info from step number 1.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

JohnA said:


> No Philly, this is not a case of Semantics. I understand what and why you are saying and agree with it. But I also think at the same time he needs to consider two other things. Let me be clear


 No, you do not get what I am saying at all. 

If nothing happened they need therapy, boundaries, and to fix their communications. So, his priority number one is to get the proof he needs to be sure. Yes, I think he has enough, but he does not. So, he gets his questions answered and then focuses on what you typed below.




> 1.) the first thing a BS must do is secure a post divorce life. They must consult with a lawyer and come up a clear game plan to get
> The hell out. I asked OP earlier in his thread if he had. He answered yes and I think he is golden with no alimony and 70/30 custody with him the 70 and him getting child support from him. Fear of the unknown or change cripples people.
> 
> 2.) to reconcile is hard. Why even try if there is nothing worth saving. For the kids or because I love them are piss poor answers. Anyone who gives this answer is whistling in the dark ad begging to get abused. Anyone who try's to reconcile without understanding the pit falls ahead and without a clear goal will fail and get screwed over four times worse.
> 
> 3.). While doing the first two verify what happened. Read and follow http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html. I agree with bandit about her behavior. Even if nothing happened - I would personally end a relationship and if married tell my spouse - if you really think that we need a divorce now before things get really ugly and present my info from step number 1.


All of the above happens later, except for #3 which should be first, when you KNOW what is going on. Yes, lying is bad. Still, if the communication dynamic leads to lying to stop fighting, there is another issue at play.


Yes, we are bickering over the priorities order which is semantics.


----------



## Cynthia

How do you even know that she was drunk? She might not have been drunk at all. Whatever she did was obviously premeditated due to her turning her phone off first thing.

edit to add: 
How did she appear physically when she got home? Was she tired? Did she seem sick? or Was she full of energy? When she got home, you were upset and may not have considered some of these questions, but looking back, what condition was she in overall?


----------



## Overzealous11

CynthiaDe said:


> How do you even know that she was drunk? She might not have been drunk at all. Whatever she did was obviously premeditated due to her turning her phone off first thing.
> 
> edit to add:
> How did she appear physically when she got home? Was she tired? Did she seem sick? or Was she full of energy? When she got home, you were upset and may not have considered some of these questions, but looking back, what condition was she in overall?



Looked hungover and tired.
Didnt seem to be "sick"
They went to McDonalds on way from Jeremys to my home.


----------



## bandit.45

Overzealous11 said:


> Looked hungover and tired.
> Didnt seem to be "sick"
> They went to McDonalds on way from Jeremys to my home.


Oh well yeah....she had to re-fuel from all that burned up energy. 

Your wife is a cheating liar dude. End it.


----------



## Be smart

Hmm you trust your wife to much my friend after all of this.

She is still friends with this Erica and they are working together.

Let me tell you about nurses-females and males.

I am male nurse and I hope you belive me. The amount of betrayal is so huge you could not put it in some Hollywood movie. Especially at night shifts. Married ones,single ones,ugly ones,beautiful it does not matter.

I think it is "IN" to bang some dude or wife at the hospital. 

I dont belive in God but I can swear to you this is the truth. You see them walk in to some room and bang after 5 minutes they are back fixing shirts and skirts. 

After that they brag to "friends" how great it was.
It is there,OPEN to everyone to see.

I saw this married wife banging some dude and when we finished our shift she went to her husband and 2 kids like it never happend. It is like living 2 lives belive me.


Now back to your story,sorry about mine.

You will never find the truth,no matter what you did. Poly,back up messages,her stroy,Erica story ...

I got a feeling that you are somewhat afraid of your wife. This is your life my friend and do you really want to live it with one eye open all the time wondering what is the truth,where is she ?

Stay strong.


----------



## Overzealous11

Be smart said:


> Hmm you trust your wife to much my friend after all of this.
> 
> She is still friends with this Erica and they are working together.
> 
> Let me tell you about nurses-females and males.
> 
> I am male nurse and I hope you belive me. The amount of betrayal is so huge you could not put it in some Hollywood movie. Especially at night shifts. Married ones,single ones,ugly ones,beautiful it does not matter.
> 
> I think it is "IN" to bang some dude or wife at the hospital.
> 
> I dont belive in God but I can swear to you this is the truth. You see them walk in to some room and bang after 5 minutes they are back fixing shirts and skirts.
> 
> After that they brag to "friends" how great it was.
> It is there,OPEN to everyone to see.
> 
> I saw this married wife banging some dude and when we finished our shift she went to her husband and 2 kids like it never happend. It is like living 2 lives belive me.
> 
> 
> Now back to your story,sorry about mine.
> 
> You will never find the truth,no matter what you did. Poly,back up messages,her stroy,Erica story ...
> 
> I got a feeling that you are somewhat afraid of your wife. This is your life my friend and do you really want to live it with one eye open all the time wondering what is the truth,where is she ?
> 
> Stay strong.


I have heard this about nurses a few times in the last week.

Totally not afraid her one iota. 

We have built a life, and to D is a step, that if I need to take - needs to be with a hint of more facts, along with boatloads of my preparation on the the back end. 

If not the truth, I can at least find out more to the story.

Post D life is a reality I must face depending on what I am able to uncover.


----------



## workindad

Be smart said:


> Hmm you trust your wife to much my friend after all of this.
> 
> She is still friends with this Erica and they are working together.
> 
> Let me tell you about nurses-females and males.
> 
> I am male nurse and I hope you belive me. The amount of betrayal is so huge you could not put it in some Hollywood movie. Especially at night shifts. Married ones,single ones,ugly ones,beautiful it does not matter.
> 
> I think it is "IN" to bang some dude or wife at the hospital.
> 
> I dont belive in God but I can swear to you this is the truth. You see them walk in to some room and bang after 5 minutes they are back fixing shirts and skirts.
> 
> After that they brag to "friends" how great it was.
> It is there,OPEN to everyone to see.
> 
> *I saw this married wife banging some dude and when we finished our shift she went to her husband and 2 kids like it never happend. It is like living 2 lives belive me.*
> 
> 
> Now back to your story,sorry about mine.
> 
> You will never find the truth,no matter what you did. Poly,back up messages,her stroy,Erica story ...
> 
> I got a feeling that you are somewhat afraid of your wife. This is your life my friend and do you really want to live it with one eye open all the time wondering what is the truth,where is she ?
> 
> Stay strong.




I hope you informed her husband. He has a right to know.


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## Overzealous11

workindad said:


> I hope you informed her husband. He has a right to know.


For clarity, they do not work together - Erica and my wife went to school together.

So today, I re-combed FB, to refresh myself with timelines.

From what I am able to gather on DJ and Erica:

Eric and DJ were high school sweet hearts, broke up approx 3-4 months ago.
I have met DJ over the course of wifes schooling - and DJ has deleted every ounce of Erica from his FB life.
No likes, comments, or pictures together.
They are completely broken up.


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## just got it 55

marduk said:


> Here's what you do. Right f'ing now.
> 
> #1 stop talking to her. You know she was up to no good and went about it in a totally disrespectful way because honestly man, based on your threads, she knew she could get away with it. She has ZERO respect for you and wants to be single, man. Single with a safety net.
> 
> #2 back up every piece of hardware you can in your home -- desktops, laptops, iPads, phones, everything. Back it up offsite. Go get an external USB drive and just do it and take it into the office for deeper analysis later. look up how to recover Facebook archives. I think it sends you a zip file after a few hours or something -- back that up offsite, too.
> 
> #3 call a lawyer and set up an appointment. Today.
> 
> When you've done that, come back here, and lots of people can help you with the forensics on the data and advice on how to deal with what you find.
> 
> But I'm sorry man, this one is going to be difficult to repair.


OZ..... Strike hard and fast your landing will be much softer and sooner

55

55


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## just got it 55

TRy said:


> In reading what you wrote we know 2 things for sure:
> 
> 1) Erica is what is called a toxic friend in that she actively arranged the meet up with the other man (OM), is willing to lie to you in order to help your wife cover it up, and plots with your wife behind your back in text messages that your wife needs to delete. Bottom line she is not only not a friend of the marriage, but she is an active enemy of you and your marriage. You wife needs to agree to go full not contact with this toxic friend; this needs to be non-negotiable. If she picks her friendship with this toxic friend over you, then you marriage was coming to an end anyway and now you know.
> 
> 2) Your wife turning off her phone immediately after she left your house, means that she was up to no good right from the start. From the very beginning she wanted to leave the option open for her to be able to cheat.


Not logical to explain this in any other way OZ

Not at all open to interpretation,

55


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## farsidejunky

OZ, can you merge the two timelines?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Overzealous11

just got it 55 said:


> OZ..... Strike hard and fast your landing will be much softer and sooner
> 
> 55
> 
> 55


#1 I have backed off, but cannot cut contact during holidays with family in and out. If this is the last great Christmas married - for my 8 and 5 year old boys, I want them to only remember good in my house. 

#2 Everything is already backed up. Except her old damn Android Alcatel phone that I cannot root (anyone know how?)

#3 I have two lawyers with whom I am familiar from others, and they have both been sent emails yesterday.


To answer your point - I am stuck in limbo until I can/not recover the data from this Android Alcatel phone. 


Striking hard and fast has not been an option since my soft confrontation months ago. *shaking my head* Wish I was here at TAM then....
I am going for harder evidence at this second. If I cannot obtain that, then polygraph.


STD check on Monday.

I would rather be methodical and prepared versus reacting emotionally swiftly.


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## Overzealous11

farsidejunky said:


> OZ, can you merge the two timelines?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I believe yes, if I am understanding your question. Please clarify just a bit.


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## JohnA

Now might be a good time to have a face to face with DJ. If he and Eric were still together I would not bother but now you might get - some- truth in a face to face. A face to face is important since it will give you a chance to read his body language.


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## farsidejunky

Overzealous11 said:


> I believe yes, if I am understanding your question. Please clarify just a bit.


The time line of the night in question and your wifes friends break up.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## jld

Oz, people usually cheat for a reason. Do you know the reason?

Why do you think she was not honest with you?

Those questions might sound simple, but they're not. And the answers others might give for their wives might not fit your wife. 

Even if you do not answer them here, please answer as honestly as you can to yourself. Being as truthful as we can be with ourselves, however painful, can only help us.


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## sidney2718

Overzealous11 said:


> For clarity, they do not work together - Erica and my wife went to school together.
> 
> So today, I re-combed FB, to refresh myself with timelines.
> 
> From what I am able to gather on DJ and Erica:
> 
> Eric and DJ were high school sweet hearts, broke up approx 3-4 months ago.
> I have met DJ over the course of wifes schooling - and DJ has deleted every ounce of Erica from his FB life.
> No likes, comments, or pictures together.
> They are completely broken up.


Or it has all gone underground.


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## Overzealous11

farsidejunky said:


> The time line of the night in question and your wifes friends break up.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk



I can piece together most, if not all of it, somewhat fit. As exact dates are not completely available since Erica's ex, DJ, erased her from his life.



I have been thinking the same thing today, that if they indeed broke up,- that initiating contact with DJ asking for any clarity would be a good step. If they are broken up due to Erica fooling around with Jeremy or that crowd, he may have insight.


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## Overzealous11

sidney2718 said:


> Or it has all gone underground.



Erica and DJ were together in some small midwest city since like age 15. 
No way to take that underground after moving to big city and living together. 
Both work in the city, at companies I am familiar with. 

Prior to breakup, their entire lives (including FB) featured both of them.


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## JohnA

By the way you ARE preparing to strike hard and fast, stay on course. The 180 does not mean no communication. It means withholding emotional support and validation, rejecting emotional overtures and validations and only discussing matters that are joint, such as children. @Satya put it best "diplomatic and polite".

You are right to back off these issues - at this time. Let her read to her hearts content and think her overnight is gone and forgotten. Again - let her think. 

Continue to be aware, read http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/128754-examples-cheaters-script-thread-resource.html and collect info. When you have a post divorce life in place, legal documents (drawn up witn your lawyer) in hand (filed or unfilled up to you) confront. Demand from her only: the truth, why YOU (only you - not your boys) should stay married to her, why does SHE (she not her boys) wants to be married to her and if she does want to stay married how she thinks the marriage gets fixed.

One other point ploy stays on the table. Another poster advised to look for one with a military CID background.


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## just got it 55

Overzealous11 said:


> #1 I have backed off, but cannot cut contact during holidays with family in and out. If this is the last great Christmas married - for my 8 and 5 year old boys, I want them to only remember good in my house.
> 
> #2 Everything is already backed up. Except her old damn Android Alcatel phone that I cannot root (anyone know how?)
> 
> #3 I have two lawyers with whom I am familiar from others, and they have both been sent emails yesterday.
> 
> 
> To answer your point - I am stuck in limbo until I can/not recover the data from this Android Alcatel phone.
> 
> 
> Striking hard and fast has not been an option since my soft confrontation months ago. *shaking my head* Wish I was here at TAM then....
> I am going for harder evidence at this second. If I cannot obtain that, then polygraph.
> 
> 
> STD check on Monday.
> 
> I would rather be methodical and prepared versus reacting emotionally swiftly.


Stop overthinking this her actions were very clear when she shut of her phone off. She planned deception and executed it... Delay at your own risk young man!!

180
Lawyer up
Serve

Observe and learn

Clear & Present Detachment 

55


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## Overzealous11

JohnA said:


> By the way you ARE preparing to strike hard and fast,
> 
> Continue to be aware, read.
> 
> One other point ploy stays on the table. Another poster advised to look for one with a military CID background.



Yes
Yes


What do your last lines mean? I am confused by it. Military CID? Point ploy?


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## JohnA

Poly is polygraph. CID is criminal investigation division. From what he said their approach is different (prep the person right before the test) that get better results.


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## Overzealous11

JohnA said:


> Poly is polygraph. CID is criminal investigation division. From what he said their approach is different (prep the person right before the test) that get better results.


Got it
Poly and someone from their CID


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## ButtPunch

just got it 55 said:


> Stop overthinking this her actions were very clear when she shut of her phone off. She planned deception and executed it... Delay at your own risk young man!!
> 
> 180
> Lawyer up
> Serve
> 
> Observe and learn
> 
> Clear & Present Detachment
> 
> 55


I agree.

You have seen enough betrayal to merit divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eric1

The pen and paper is the way to defeat the unsuccessful soft confront.

Get her to sit down in front of you and ask a billion questions. Literally every other word should end with a question mark. From what color shirt to what she ordered at McDonalds, to who paid, to what she drank in what order and how they tasted. How many times she went to the bathroom and who she was with. The songs on the radio.

Do not accept 'I don't know'. 

The cheater will lie and lies rely on simplicity. What you will force her to do is on-the-fly add orders of magnitude more complexity to the lies. At some point the house of cards will crumble, and it could be over something as simple as if the drinks had cherries.

Use a pen and paper (and record it) because she WILL gas light you when caught in a lie.

You'll also need this when consulting with the poly tech. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia

Or forget the pen and paper, just put a recorder on the table and turn it on.


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## JohnA

Pen and paper might work but she needs to write all her answers down.


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## OldWolf57

Shutting off the phone at her 1st stop, shows intent.

Can't say about jeremy.
He may not have been the one she was with. Roommates was mentioned.
jemery as ericka's bf was maybe fishing if it was a roommate.

I can see plotting a double date with ericka,, shut off phone at first gas stop.


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## eric1

OldWolf57 said:


> Shutting off the phone at her 1st stop, shows intent.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't say about jeremy.
> 
> He may not have been the one she was with. Roommates was mentioned.
> 
> jemery as ericka's bf was maybe fishing if it was a roommate.
> 
> 
> 
> I can see plotting a double date with ericka,, shut off phone at first gas stop.



Exactly. It also shows premeditated action, which means that the evidence will be on the phone.

There isn't a condition in the world where any quasi-responsible mother of two children under ten loses access to the phone and doesn't check in or atleast see if everything is ok. She shut it off on purpose


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

For me, if I had a woman who disappeared all night without telling me where she was, turning off her phone, keeping me up worried sick, and then comes waltzing in the next morning like fvcking Queen Elizabeth strolling into Parliament.... She would be out on her fvcking ear. I don't care if she was out banging some one or just passed out at a girlfriend's house. She would come to the door locked and find her luggage outside on the porch. She would be gone. 

I simply will not be disrespected that way in a marriage, and OP you should be ashamed of yourself for having put up with that. No wonder she thinks she can get away with anything. She walks all over you and you just fold. Don't ever fvcking do that again. Stand up for your rights and integrity.


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## BobSimmons

bandit.45 said:


> For me, if I had a woman who disappeared all night without telling me where she was, turning off her phone, keeping me up worried sick, and then comes waltzing in the next morning like fvcking Queen Elizabeth strolling into Parliament.... She would be out on her fvcking ear. I don't care if she was out banging some one or just passed out at a girlfriend's house. She would come to the door locked and find her luggage outside on the porch. She would be gone.
> 
> I simply will not be disrespected that way in a marriage, and OP you should be ashamed of yourself for having put up with that. No wonder she thinks she can get away with anything. She walks all over you and you just fold. Don't ever fvcking do that again. Stand up for your rights and integrity.


A bit harsh but the semantics hold. Disrespect. Even now the lying and continued disrespect. She gets away with it today, tomorrow it becomes much more easier to do.

Do not say you were not warned.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Here's my question, since no one asked, what prompted the use of find my phone? I ask because she actively turned her phone off as if you have used it before. What issues have occurred before to use find my phone when she is out?

Oh and let me add to the cacophony. Kind of funny she was drunk and passed out, but was sober enough to shut off her phone.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Sorry, I just reread your posts. You said you used FB archive and downloaded everything. Did you do it when he was blocked or unblocked?


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## bigorange

Have you ever heard the phrase "Ready to settle down and start a family" You folks sound like a couple of college kids. If you research alcohol, it impairs your judgement. Do you not remember in college guys giving women alcohol, etc? Why? Because it increases your chances of getting laid.

I've actually seen the opposite side of this story from the Jeremy perspective, and the woman told her fiance the same crap, that she stayed over and passed out, when she was actually riding the baloney pony. 

Just the fact that someone almost 30 y/o admits to getting trashed and passing out is enough cause for concern. An array of things can happen there even without consent and it's irresponsible.

From my experience when a woman pulls an all nighter, there is only one reason, and it's not a good one. I suggest you both grow up, act your age, and stop sending your wife out to bars with a college age friend. It's recipe for disaster, and this may be unconventional advice, but I think as the man, you need to own up to not being a good example, leader in your home and share some responsibility in this. If you want to keep living this type of lifestyle, you are going to be in for a lifetime of heartaches. 

As a 40+ y/o man, your story sounds absolutely ridiculous, you sexually aroused your wife, and then sent her off to get drunk with a young girl. You ever been to a bar when you were single? What's your objective there besides drinking beer in a best case scenario?


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## MachoMcCoy

I wonder how many of those hundreds of romance novels she read had a scene where a shy, lonely nurse goes into a bar by herself and goes home with the hottest guy in the place. I don't read them, but I'm guessing they go into detail on what happens next.

WOW dude. Good luck with this.

And she will NEVER confess. Don't even THINK it.


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## MachoMcCoy

bigorange said:


> Have you ever heard the phrase "Ready to settle down and start a family" You folks sound like a couple of college kids. If you research alcohol, it impairs your judgement. Do you not remember in college guys giving women alcohol, etc? Why? Because it increases your chances of getting laid.
> 
> I've actually seen the opposite side of this story from the Jeremy perspective, and the woman told her fiance the same crap, that she stayed over and passed out, when she was actually riding the baloney pony.
> 
> Just the fact that someone almost 30 y/o admits to getting trashed and passing out is enough cause for concern. An array of things can happen there even without consent and it's irresponsible.
> 
> From my experience when a woman pulls an all nighter, there is only one reason, and it's not a good one. I suggest you both grow up, act your age, and stop sending your wife out to bars with a college age friend. It's recipe for disaster, and this may be unconventional advice, but I think as the man, you need to own up to not being a good example, leader in your home and share some responsibility in this. If you want to keep living this type of lifestyle, you are going to be in for a lifetime of heartaches.
> 
> As a 40+ y/o man, your story sounds absolutely ridiculous, you sexually aroused your wife, and then sent her off to get drunk with a young girl. You ever been to a bar when you were single? What's your objective there besides drinking beer in a best case scenario?


This was a little harsh. He's not sending her out nightly and crying until she gets home at 9:30 the next day. The bar night was a first and only time thing. 

Go ahead and start a thread here saying that "my wife goes out occasionally with a friend after work"and you will get a mixed reactions. Yes, GNO's are MUCH more accepted as negative than when I came here a few years ago. But there is still some "Not all women go to bars to cheat". And this thread would be "my wife, who just kicked her own ass going through school, wants to go out after work with a co worker on a one-time-thing: should I let her?" He would have gotten crucified. 

He found out it was an all-nighter AFTER the fact. He found out it was intentional deception AFTER the fact.

This type of logic has no place here. Him "letting her" go out ONCE with a coworker is not the issue.

The issue is the intentional deception and the planning that went on behind it. She planned on cheating that night. It wasn't even a drunken mistake. And where did it come from?

The Romance novels, assistance and encouragement from the toxic friend, the cell phone going dark immediately.

Many people in his romance novel thread compared her escapism in those novels as the equivalent of porn. Not so. It's worse. I like my porn. But I have ZERO illusions that I can leave my house and get one of these gals. My porn use stays on a paper towel in the trash can when I'm done. 

Her porn wasn't even so much the reading as the planning that went into THIS night. The one she got caught at. I wonder if there were any supermarket fantasies that were lived out. Trip to the dentist? Any plumbers or electricians come by lately? Pizza deliveries in the middle of the day?

One thing is for sure: they were all with guys not stupid enough to friend request her on facebook after the fact.

Your other thread. The one where she ignored you, her kids and her house to escape in "romance novels?" Yes, that was her porn. Imagine porn that you could "get" any time you want. Personally, I'd never get any sleep. That thread was not separate from this one. It was just part one. The "Prologue" , if you will.

When you do the poly, remember to ask about the other fantasies that were fulfilled.


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## bankshot1993

so what ever happened here OZ, did you get everything worked out?


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## JohnA

@bankshot1993 your post got me wondering too. I went to his individual page and saw @autocraig is currently reading "how infidelity has help my marriage, hopefully he will stop by and update this thread or start a new one. I hoped he has read Hantei thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/320049-i-dont-know-what-would-right-title.html. His and Weit's, and lonely husband's are models to follow for any BS regardless of gender.


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## bankshot1993

JohnA said:


> @bankshot1993 your post got me wondering too. I went to his individual page and saw @autocraig is currently reading "how infidelity has help my marriage, hopefully he will stop by and update this thread or start a new one. I hoped he has read Hantei thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/320049-i-dont-know-what-would-right-title.html. His and Weit's, and lonely husband's are models to follow for any BS regardless of gender.


have I missed something? what does @autocraig have to do with @overzealous ?


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## Sports Fan

She is lying through her teeth.

She turns off the phone minutes after leaving the house. Is uncontacable all night, then comes in at 9.30am the next morning. On top of that she lies about her whereabouts, then after some pressure from you admits to passing out at a male's house.

Completely unacceptable. You already have the smoking gun. She cheated when she turned off the phone, lied with who she was with, then spent the night at a guys house after being out all night drinking with him.

SHE IS ALREADY A CHEATER. YOU DONT NEED ANY MORE PROOF.

RAIN DOWN A S...HIT STORM LIKE SHE HAS NEVER SEEN BEFORE. 

Truly sorry you are going through this


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## GusPolinski

Forgot about this guy.

Hopefully he managed to get some definitive answers and is moving forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnA

@bankshot1993 no you didn't, I mixed up the posters. I do like to check an individual's page to follow posts on other threads and to see when they logged on last. Sometimes you can see a poster lurking for quite a bit of time without posting.


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