# Ultimatum-- Zoloft or divorce



## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

Has anyone given an ultimatum where it worked to their advantage?

It's the same situation with me. I am trying to get him to marriage counseling or even to take his zoloft and he is not responding to this at all. Claims our marriage is fine and wants to continue on.

The anxiety is frustrating and draining for me. Coming home from work I feel ill going home.. The thought that my spouse is a jekyl/hyde personality and absolute refuses treatment is absolutely killing my soul. Always yelling and mad-- needs constant reassurance because he is a worrier, can't relax, in a rush to do everything, chokes while eating at times (this scares my son), doesn't sleep well, etc, etc.. Doesn't give any emotional or mental support at all. I have worked so hard at getting him a 'male' therapist cuz he thinks females are stupid. He's in denial and a narcissist because he does not care about my feelings!!! Yes I have seen a therapist for this and they have basically told me that I either put up with it/lead a separate life or leave him... I think the word zoloft 'scares' him BUT he'll take cholesterol meds or any OTC meds with no problems. 

I have spent years ignoring most of his worries (most are not legite like why ground squirrels are in our garage-- ok, they don't stay just checking things out!!). I'm a laid-back person with a sense of humor so I just go about my business. But I'm finding myself angry and mad that this guy doesn't take note of anything. I have sent countless of emails and articles to him because we can't have a conversation without him getting angry. But I'm getting mad because I put so much into this family and feel like it's time to move on my own. Weeks ago I told him that we can stay married and live separately OR get a divorce-- I don't care anymore-- he laughed like 'ya right your not getting anything'. I have just filled out 6 pages of paperwork (about fiances mainly) for a free consultation with an attorney.

Ok-- tipping point in a way!! He has had clogged ears since June and has seen many doctors for this and they can't find a problem.. hearing is good, gave him amoxicillin, sudefed, etc....Nothing seems to be working and yes I have to hear about it.. I did some research -- stress /anxiety can cause this among other things.. I thought I found the solution so I forwarded all the articles thinking he would FINALLY take care of his worries. Nope, he just continued to see other doctors BUT yet when I go to the Dr for a tendon tear/PT or ultrasound for women stuff, I get yelled at about how dare I waste $$$ because I'm fine and don't need to go... Just recently he thinks he's allergic to cats and I hope he is because I'm keeping both of my cats--- he can go!!! We also went to a wedding a month ago and I felt so empty inside-- should've been a fun time but my joy is gone-- just uncomfortable around him.

I know a divorce will be messy and kids may not understand but I think if I continue on like this I will have breakdown.-- I've done a wonderful job at raising my boys and they are nothing like dad-- they are smart, kind and know right from wrong-- really proud of them!! I'm getting older and need to focus on me. My parents sense something is off and my sister says I need to put my big girl pants on and do this if he is not willing to help himself. 

Thanks for reading this post-- I think I'm ready for some peace.. I hate the fact that I'm MAKING him take his zoloft but something needs to change because I can't do it anymore..


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't mean for this to come across as unkind, because I don't know you at all, but it sounds like you're his mom - not his wife.

Ultimatums for grown men? 










If it were me, I'd take some time and think/brainstorm/write about _what I want for me._ And then I'd present that to him.

Maybe in a public place? With a very calm demeanor. _*And only say it once.*_

"This (our marriage) isn't working for me. You are a grown man and free to do as you wish, but I'm not going to continue this way."

And then you share your plan for you. 

But whatever you decide to do, you have to mean it, and you have to stick to it, or else you're doing nothing but adding to the problem.

It sounds cliche because it's said so much, but you can only control you. 

Nobody really likes/appreciates/respects a martyr, and you're not doing him or your marriage any favors by treating him like he's a little boy.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

cc48kel said:


> something needs to change because I can't do it anymore..


That’s not an ultimatum, that’s a fact (or should be). You could let him know that, but I think you know you are “ready for some peace”. Follow up with the attorney.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

I agree with minimalME. As someone who is an adult and takes Psych meds I can tell you that you CANNOT make me do anything I don’t want to do. 
Like all meds and lifestyle changes it’s up to the ADULT to decide their course of action and it’s up to you to decide whether you can live with things the way they are.

You can control you, not him

You’re done. Lawyer up. Maybe he’ll change, maybe he won’t. If you don’t care if he changes or not then you are WELL done, as in stick a fork in me and it’s time to move forward apart from him.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Why did you have children with a mentally unhealthy person? I won’t believe you if you say he wasn’t always like this. You saw the red flags beforehand.

Help him find a male therapist but put a time limit on it. I don’t want you needing meds too!


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

It's not an untimatum, it's called boundaries. He has to know that you will take care of yourself and get him out of your life if he doesn't stop overstepping your boundaries.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

Thank-you for your replies.. And yes I'm his mom-- he absolutely needs a 'mom' especially for the reassurance thing. I'm here to support him and be his cheer leader. Somehow I don't get the same in return. If it's advice he doesn't like he will tell me to f-off which the therapist told him to knock it off (so far so good on that).. I do stand up for myself and tell him I'm not going to put up with this behavior or --yada yada yada then yes I'm basically allowing him to do it again...

We dated for a couple years so I thought this was it, we got along so we married. Yes he had nervous energy and some other things but noone is perfect, so why not. After we married some things intensified but again I was OK with it. And I REALLY thought as ppl age, they calm down-- apparently this is not the case with him (I have slowed down some). We eventually bought a house and had kids-- many things were his problem because I was focused on kids and home. He would often call his dad for support. Kids are in HS now, his dad is too old for his problems and I'm tired of his drama that he creates. He is like a tornado when he comes home from work. Boundaries are good and yes I have discussed this with a therapist I used to see years ago.. I believe that is what helped me stay strong and focused all these years.. 

But it can be difficult not to let him interfere which is why I had a meltdown few weeks ago.. I think I allowed all his concerns and negativity in my world. And then with my job and staying up on these teens, it just all got to me. Family has been calling and checking in which is good... He has been asking why they call.. I think he knows why because he has been somewhat mellow. He still goes off on tangents but as long as I can ignore him, I'm good. Today, he spent 300 bucks on cleaning the air ducts for his ears then needed support from me that he did the right thing. Yes M, it is good to have it clean for the family and then of course you and your ears-- get it checked so we can move onto the next thing.. Which is having the house 'deep cleaned'--- he believes there is something causing his ear problem. It just still frustrates me that he can't see the elephant in the room!!! We ordered carry-out which then he didn't like the amount of food for the price.. He always does this so again, we just have to ignore him and move on.. And when the kids ask something about him, I don't cover it up anymore they are old enough to know-- I just say it's his anxiety and if he wants to change his ways, there is help for him. It is what it is and I know what I need to do..


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

cc48kel said:


> Thank-you for your replies.. And yes I'm his mom-- he absolutely needs a 'mom' especially for the reassurance thing. I'm here to support him and be his cheer leader. Somehow I don't get the same in return...


Well, to put it in another perspective, l would never want to be married to a woman such as you. Thinking that is marriage is tit for tat, your to do things with out the belief of recipaotation being demanded. That said it sounds you had your fill and harbor resentment and inpatience and anger. And already have reached a decision point. Maybe (non offending) you should do the Zoloft, that would help you cope. How long have you been married? I see you have high schoolers, and yes they are old enough to understand. 

But, it's just you thinking you are his mom, this isn't a married life neither he or you want. If he cannot be strong enough then, for the kids sake move on and divorce.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

I see your 48, and there is plenty of time for you to find the love you need to complete you. Life is too short to live in misery. Said from the outside perspective.


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## Sukisue1234 (Jan 17, 2018)

Have u tried talking abt it with out being mad or with him with out asking why he is so angry alot of the time. Have u considered tht he may have issues hes not telling you abt. Do u still have an intimate relationship with him. How long have u been married are there date nights ??? Romantic moments from either of u like before u were married?? Sometimes it's a matter of a couple losing perspective and themselves.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I just now saw this thread. You know @cc48kel, its sounds to me like you have hit your limit and you are done. And thats ok, you have been fighting an uphill battle for a long time now. Him taking Zoloft isnt going to be a magical cure-all, and you cant MAKE him take it. He is the only one who can help himself, and it seems that he is hunky dory with how he is. Your kids are in high school, they are more than capable of handling a divorce. Skip over the ultimatum and just let him know you are moving on. He will probably start trying to do something like take the meds, but it would most likely just be a short term fix to get you to stay put. Is this where you want to be in your life 10-20 years from now?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

You’re focusing on the wrong thing. 

You’ve invented a solution to a problem he doesn’t think he has. 

Instead focus on the problem you have. Which sounds very much like “husband, I can’t live like this any more. I need X and Y by Z time, otherwise I’m out.”

Where X and Y isn’t Zoloft or psychologists, it’s things like no yelling, anger under control, and not looking to me to manage your anxiety for you. Focus on the outcome you need. 

Z should be something like a couple of weeks to a couple of months. 

Focus on your problems. He can find his own solutions or just continue on because he doesn’t care. Either way, your path is clear.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Read “co-dependent no more” and begin to detach. Worry about yourself and your kids, not him. See where this takes you.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

OnTheFly said:


> Why did you have children with a mentally unhealthy person? I won’t believe you if you say he wasn’t always like this. You saw the red flags beforehand.
> 
> Help him find a male therapist but put a time limit on it. I don’t want you needing meds too!


When we fall for somebody, we may go to some extent to vet them, but we're looking for things we can relate to, and most likely missing things we have little experience with. 42 years ago I had no clue my wife lied about her then-recent past because I didn't think she was capable of doing so. Because I didn't think a reasonable person would do so, because she had such hugely different visions of personal privacy than I. She literally took advantage of that. She understood my vulnerability; I did not understand her thinking it's OK to lie & omit. Could be similar thing here. 



Adelais said:


> It's not an untimatum, it's called boundaries. He has to know that you will take care of yourself and get him out of your life if he doesn't stop overstepping your boundaries.


And it was likely unadressed boundary issues at the beginning of the relationship. Nobody talks about how important this is. 



Marduk said:


> You’re focusing on the wrong thing.
> 
> You’ve invented a solution to a problem he doesn’t think he has.
> 
> ...


At this point, this is absolutely 100% correct. He has to be given a choice, and live with the consequences. He has to want to change, or he won't. Telling him to do something without a reason he can understand and appreciate isn't going to go anywhere.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

Marduk said:


> You’re focusing on the wrong thing.
> 
> You’ve invented a solution to a problem he doesn’t think he has.
> 
> ...


This is damn good advice.

That said, have you considered that maybe his problem isn't JUST anxiety and depression? Maybe he acts this way in part because he doesn't respect you? The counselor told him to stop and he did. He listens to other people but not to you. All the medicine in the world is not going to make him stop being a jerk to you or give him an epiphany about how terrible he's been. That's why Marduk is spot on by saying you need to outline your boundaries with behaviors you'd like to see stopped rather than focus on the treatment. He's made it clear he's perfectly capable of behaving. He just chooses not to when it comes to you.

Personally, I think that makes your situation even less likely to change long term. You can't make someone respect you and it's much harder to get someone to change after years of doing what works. He yells, you back off. He worries, you reassure him. He freaks out about something inconsequential, you're right there to hold his hand through it. If you don't want to keep being his cheerleader then stop catering to him. Look up the "Gray Rock" technique and follow it. It will help you not get sucked back into his crazy while also not looking like you're antagonizing him either.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Not in a marital situation, however, we, unfortunately, have been in a situation with a mentally unstable relative that makes demands and threats. Unfortunately, this was an ultimatum that had to be made. She was living in an apartment, and was unable to cope with reality, her marriage ended badly, her ex was going to spend some quality time behind bars, and through a combination of medications and frustrations began to scream at the top of her lungs from approximately midnight to 3AM a few nights a week. We were brought into the situation, as my wife's family were at their wits' end. Our first incursion, we got her to agree to stop. Lasted all of 48 hours. I was approached by her neighbor, a rather large fellow, who told me if she does it again, he will knock her door down and make her stop. I told him that we were working on it. I related that this could end badly for her, as I would not be there to defend her should he carry through on his threat. I gave her the ultimatum that either she stop or, I will let the neighbor do what he pleases, and then she will be put into a facility. She called her neighbor a mf'er to his face, and he warned her that he hears a peep, her door will be down and she will regret it. That night, I received a phone call at 1AM. Officers attended her apartment. The door had been knocked off its hinges. She was nursing a black eye, was huddled in a corner rocking back and forth. Her neighbor was in cuffs. Police told me that they were going to take her to the hospital for a 48hr hold. Her apartment super, then told me that as of that moment she was out. We had a week to remove her belongings. She overhears that and goes ballistic. Police remove her, and I ask them to please let the neighbor go. She purposely wanted to rile him as that is her MO. SO....while she is cooling her heels in a psych ward, we go for an emergency placement in a full time facility. OH BOY. Well, she was placed, and was NOT happy, and the first night, she goes into her scream. Midnight, her room is filled with facility personnel, and she is given a sedative. Wakes up two days later and asks what happened. The staff tells her that every time she tries to scream, she will be anaesthetized. There were no further warnings received. She has NOT improved, but the screaming is over.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

well, he has an issue and he doesn't want to solve it because he thinks it's not an issue. He doesn't listen to you and doesn't really care about you, otherwise he would be doing his utmost to save the marriage. I would leave. He is not invested in the marriage.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Well, I feel like I have some of the same issues your husband has, but not to the same extent. While I'm invested in the marriage, I feel like I have to constantly bottle up my problems and keep them to myself. Your family can see how he behaves. My family (and to some extent my spouse) have no idea what's going on inside. I appear perfectly normally and successful to the outside world. That's why I'm binging on this site. It's helping _me_ understand _me_ better. 

Zoloft is not a magic pill. It may or may not help. It's unlikely your husband will change. Whatever you decide to do, make up your mind and do it. Only you can decide what the right answer is. What I can tell you is make up your mind. Being mired down in indecision will destroy you physically, mentally, spiritually, and psychologically. 

Good luck. You have enough life left that you shouldn't throw it away.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Sfort said:


> While I'm invested in the marriage, I feel like I have to constantly bottle up my problems and keep them to myself. Your family can see how he behaves. My family (and to some extent my spouse) have no idea what's going on inside. I appear perfectly normally and successful to the outside world. That's why I'm binging on this site. It's helping _me_ understand _me_ better.


For the benefit of your family and spouse, you shouldn't bottle everything up and hide what you feel. I've lived with a person like you most of my life and it's no fun, I can assure you. 




Sfort said:


> Zoloft is not a magic pill. It may or may not help. It's unlikely your husband will change.


It will work with the right therapy. And you *can* change... for the better. You need to want it. I understand the fears, but if people are not invested, they will destroy the marriage.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Yes, Zoloft.

Loft him out of your life.


He's taken this medication, noted its effects, and noted that how it affected, and changed his mind.

Apparently, he enjoys the nervous wreck that he is, not the subdued shell he feels while on that mind squasher.

Good for him, bad for you and your family.

He has a chemical imbalance and he shares it with his family.
How nice....not.

Some say Wellbutrin is better, easier to tolerate?

I say, good and well, you need none of any of that, nor him.

You need to take your good feeling medicine and flush him out of your life.

Do so, without malice. He has proven himself flawed. He is what he is.

A shame, yes that...



TT 1-


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Your story reminds me somewhat of my own with my XH.

He isn’t going to to change.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> And you *can* change... for the better. You need to want it. I understand the fears, but if people are not invested, they will destroy the marriage.


It's too easy to say someone can change for the better. Change is pretty easy for me to accept because I understand that change doesn't have to conflict with core values. But others cannot make that distinction; they feel that having to change is asking for them to be someone they aren't. They don't get that, underneath the bitterness they project on the outside, may be an awesome person on the inside that is simply tone-deaf for how they come across. They perhaps lack the perception of someone going from a neutral or negative stance to smiling and positive. Or maybe they're just not fueled by that response.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Spicy said:


> Your story reminds me somewhat of my own with my XH.
> 
> He isn’t going to to change.


That is right, Spicy.
He can't really change, he can only repress or mask his problems.

Unfortunately, because of his close proximity, his problems are OP's problems. 
Her problems will greatly lessen when she puts distance between her, and that sad, grumpy man, her husband.


We all have 'issues'.
Some are cute, and some, in the opinion of others 'suck'.

His suck.
Yep. :frown2:



LMc-


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Ultimatum's NEVER work as intended over time......just don't.
EVER...It makes you look, and become weak.

One cannot negotiate desire.
Ultimatum's are a form of negotiation.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> It's too easy to say someone can change for the better.


I wasn't saying it's easy... just that people _can_ change, with the right tools. Not dramatically change, but accepting different views and adjusting. It takes two to have a marriage, both invested in it. I think you know that well.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

Thanks for the messages... Really appreciate it!!! And will come back to re-read cause I'm tired and crying.. I feel stuck he promised me so many times that he will get help and started Zoloft 2 different times recently and didn't want to continue cuz it made him sick.. And still refuses counseling. My appt is for next week with lawyer and it's just their opinion I guess.. I have no idea what the hell I'm going to do and function. He tells me this is his house and I'm not getting anything.. I know it's not true BUT so hurtful!!! Sad and very hurtful.. why doesn't he want to get help? He says his friends and family love him the way he is.. Our marriage is so ****ed-up... We haven't had sex in 14 years!!!!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Some people dont get help for all kinds of reasons... they are stubborn, dont want anyone telling them what to do or how to live, they think its a sign of weakness, they dont like putting in effort.... and on and on. If the Zoloft makes him sick, there are SO MANY OTHER meds out there for him to try! But again, he has to want to do it. You already know that he is full of crap that you wont get anything, you are entitled to half of all marital assets at the very least! Luckily HE doesnt get to make that decision. 

If he doesnt want to get help, then he is basically holding the door open for you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He is making it clear that he doesn't want to change. Could he suddenly make an effort if he thinks you're walking out the door? Maybe. But the odds are not good that it would be anything but temporary. Permanent change is hard and not many are willing to do the necessary work. That means you have to make a choice.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

cc48kel said:


> He tells me this is his house and I'm not getting anything.. I know it's not true BUT so hurtful!!! Sad and very hurtful.. why doesn't he want to get help? He says his friends and family love him the way he is.. Our marriage is so ****ed-up... We haven't had sex in 14 years!!!!


O...M...G. There is no right-thinking therapist or friend who would consider that reasonable. There is simply no support for this anywhere. He won't find support for your marriage's lack of passion because it doesn't exist.


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

Spicy said:


> Your story reminds me somewhat of my own with my XH.
> 
> He isn’t going to to change.


Sounds like my marriage too. Best thing I ever did was get out of that mess.


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## musiclover (Apr 26, 2017)

cc48kel said:


> Thanks for the messages... Really appreciate it!!! And will come back to re-read cause I'm tired and crying.. I feel stuck he promised me so many times that he will get help and started Zoloft 2 different times recently and didn't want to continue cuz it made him sick.. And still refuses counseling. My appt is for next week with lawyer and it's just their opinion I guess.. I have no idea what the hell I'm going to do and function. He tells me this is his house and I'm not getting anything.. I know it's not true BUT so hurtful!!! Sad and very hurtful.. why doesn't he want to get help? He says his friends and family love him the way he is.. Our marriage is so ****ed-up... We haven't had sex in 14 years!!!!


My ex H never changed either because at the end of the day he thought I was going nowhere. Which he was right, I put up with years of crap. And why should he change he was fine. He could have cared less if I was miserable because he really thought I would never leave. He earned 3x as much as I did, he thought I couldn’t afford to be on my own. Until one day I was just done. And when I was done, I was DONE, FINITO, FINISHED with dealing with him and his games. He said the same as your H that his friends love him the way he is. Well I’m your wife not your friends so what exactly does that mean. I’m sure he doesn’t tell his friends to F off, does he?

And when I was completely done with years of his crap, yep that’s when he begged, wanted counseling, etc etc etc. BUT I WAS DONE. You sound like you are just about there. 

You don’t want to live like this. Divorce is overwhelming and scary because of the unknown. But you will make it. I picked myself up off the floor, filed for divorce and never looked back. Been smiling since.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I could have written this, except my XH was/is a sweet man at his core, but he totally didn’t think I would ever leave. He was certain, so all my asking, begging, ultimatums etc didn’t really mean anything to him, as I would get over it always, right? Wrong. We have been divorced for years now. 



musiclover said:


> My ex H never changed either because at the end of the day he thought I was going nowhere. Which he was right, I put up with years of crap. And why should he change he was fine. He could have cared less if I was miserable because he really thought I would never leave. He earned 3x as much as I did, he thought I couldn’t afford to be on my own. Until one day I was just done. And when I was done, I was DONE, FINITO, FINISHED with dealing with him and his games. He said the same as your H that his friends love him the way he is. Well I’m your wife not your friends so what exactly does that mean. I’m sure he doesn’t tell his friends to F off, does he?
> 
> And when I was completely done with years of his crap, yep that’s when he begged, wanted counseling, etc etc etc. BUT I WAS DONE. You sound like you are just about there.
> 
> You don’t want to live like this. Divorce is overwhelming and scary because of the unknown. But you will make it. I picked myself up off the floor, filed for divorce and never looked back. Been smiling since.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Tilted 1 said:


> Well, to put it in another perspective, l would never want to be married to a woman such as you. Thinking that is marriage is tit for tat, your to do things with out the belief of recipaotation being demanded. That said it sounds you had your fill and harbor resentment and inpatience and anger. And already have reached a decision point. Maybe (non offending) you should do the Zoloft, that would help you cope. How long have you been married? I see you have high schoolers, and yes they are old enough to understand.
> 
> But, it's just you thinking you are his mom, this isn't a married life neither he or you want. If he cannot be strong enough then, for the kids sake move on and divorce.


In OP's defense, when you are in a marriage of two normal (though imperfect) people, then yes you do things without expectation all the time. However, if you are married to someone with narcissism, personality disorders, addictions, then it gets old when it goes on for years and years without having your needs met. This is where OP is. I would suggest you look at context before making comments such as 'I would never want to be married to a woman such as you." Gosh do you hear yourself? You really are brimming with empathy there.
Her husband is basically a parasite, nothing more nor less and yes it is time for her to break those chains and move on.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

aine said:


> In OP's defense, when you are in a marriage of two normal (though imperfect) people, then yes you do things without expectation all the time. However, if you are married to someone with narcissism, personality disorders, addictions, then it gets old when it goes on for years and years without having your needs met. This is where OP is. I would suggest you look at context before making comments such as 'I would never want to be married to a woman such as you." Gosh do you hear yourself? You really are brimming with empathy there.
> Her husband is basically a parasite, nothing more nor less and yes it is time for her to break those chains and move on.


That's ok in her defense, but nothing the op said points to narrisicism, eats food to fast, worries about squirrels in garage, but is unbending to remove the cats because his allergic to them. Yes he has issues. But not willing to compromise or feeling entitled to keep thing that hurt your partner. Is still not someone " l " would be with. 

She should just leave, we only hear one side of the story. If a person is that unhappy resentment is a mile high, and she she love herself enough to move on and get her peace. The H is still a person and meds for him only? Let her take the high road and maybe she can get her self in a place to happiness.


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