# What can I do now?



## disappointedwife

Been married for 4 years to an easy-going guy who seldom say no to people and totally dotes on me. He's supportive and encouraging to my interests and hobbies and mostly lets me make the decisions in our relationship. However recently we hit a rough patch. I think it is an accumulation of discontentment in me which has been brewing over the years. 

I have no avenue to confide in my most inner thoughts about him because I'm not proud of what I am a going to say here. But I cannot help feeling the way I feel. I need to get it out because I am imploding and I hope I can find some support here. 

Husband been working late the past few days, sometimes til 4am. I am not thrilled but I understand his company culture, so I didn't make things difficult for him by complaining. On saturday before we had our lunch the boss called about work. Despite telling him he was about to lunch, the boss continued to talk about work for a good 20 min. I was unhappy about this rudeness and told him so after the call (during the call i was motioning for him to stop it). He actually told me to shut up because the call was already over.

I was livid at being dismissed and it turned into a very public fight with me calling him a sucker minion and he telling me to shut up and that i was not understanding.

I know to many this is considered a trivial issue made big by us sillies, but it is not a small matter to me. The significance of his attitude towards the whole matter chills me. And this is the tip of the iceberg. These days i started thinking about what went wrong and i decide to pen them down so that I can see more clearly:

1) 2 months into our marriage he committed voyeurism and was charged in court. The case dragged on for 3 years before he was let off with psychology sessions and marital counselling. I had wrote a letter to the judge pleading for him to be given a chance. No one else ever knew about this dark secret, only the two of us. It was a dark period for me because I had to go tru it very alone and very frightened of the outcome that he may be jailed and embarrassed in public. Before this incident I was never big on sex but i was ok with it. DUring these 3 years my drive went down and he felt rejected by me. I feel that now we can live life normally and put this incident behind us. We go on holidays and enjoy each other's company but truth is I've not had sex with him since May. I feel terrible about this but I don't know what to do. This incident is a scar on our marriage and much as we have moved on, I think of it everytime I feel upset with him. I can't help it but I feel sorry for myself each time.

2)Everytime I bring up topics like retirement planning, starting family, buying a car (phenomenal sum in my country)...these conversations do not lead to any concrete action plans because he does not seem interested into going into details. His planning style and response to me always is :" Let's just try to up our salary as much as possible now so that we''ll have enough". I get very deflated when I hear that because planning to me is not with this type of mentality. I feel i've hit a wall and then i feel so alone that I have a team partner who is like this.

3) Doesn't help that when I see my peers starting families, purchasing their cars and buying second/third properties. I know it is not healthy to be so competitive all the time, but I think it is not wrong to want to work towards that. Somehow I feel like he does not actively plan for such milestones but believes in just keeping his head down, work hard and earn more. I cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel. I feel like we go tru life day by day never having a good idea where we are heading. And this seriously kills me.

4) We like spending time tgt, cuddling and hugging on the couch. But it usually lasts for 5 min and then we are back to being in our own world --- him surfing net, me either that or writing journal/reading. I don't expect us to yak for hours on end like best girlfriends, but I am starting to feel the relationship between us is superficial and intellectually we don't connect. 

In general I find myself losing respect for him because I don't feel proud of him. I don't need a superstar husband but I need to feel you are not stupid. I know it's mean to call ur husband stupid and this says something about me. I feel bad about myself that I have to see him in this light. Definitely I'm no angel and there are all these flaws about me being stubborn, ill tempered and mean at times. But these are the thoughts i cannot help feeling about my husband.

Is this relationship headed for the rocks? I spent the whole morning googling divorce info and I keep asking myself is this really what i want?

Can someone there please talk to me about this? I can't tell anyone else i know bout this because I will be judged and I don't know how to live it down....


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## EleGirl

It sounds like the voyeurism charges were pretty serious. I can understand why this upsets you so much. Di you two spend a lot of money on his defense, fines, etc?

Do you work too?

Which came first... your not wanting sex with him or him not wanting to spend time with you?

As long as you are not having sex with him, he's not going to be a very responsive husband. 

while he does not want to plan ahead. Are the two of you at least saving money?


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## Wolfman1968

You both seem to be very different people with different approaches in life. I strongly urge you both to go into marriage counseling.

You mention issues like buying a car or starting a family. Do NOT under any circumstances get your lives more complicated until this is straightened out.

As I see it you have some big differences between you two:

a. sex drive. yes, I see where you talk about his voyeurism charge, but that is superimposed on what appears to be a big gap between your relative sex drives. it would be easy for the legal problem to become an excuse to allow yourself to justify denying him.

b. approach to money. Sounds like he is one to delay gratification to build a career/finances first. Sounds like you have a need for immediate gratification. Often, these different kinds of approaches to life come from how you are each brought up. These difference can be difficult to reconcile; he may always feel insecure and unhappy without having a great deal of financial reserve. You may feel unhappy not spending money like you see others do. This difference could be insurmountable.

Sex and money are some of the greatest problems in marriages. You need counseling immediately.


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## disappointedwife

Hi Elegirl,

well he was found guilty but let off the hook. He paid for all the legal fees.

Yes I am working. We both earn decent enough to finance our own lifestyles but starting a family would be quite a squeeze. Probably no yearly holidays. (sounds depressing to me already)

About the sex/ spending time question, i understand where you are coming from. I wouldn't say he does not want to spend time with me. But that I feel our interactions are mainly cuddling and tickling each other, goofing around...which are great...but that feels just about it.

I know it's selfish to withhold sex and expect him to be fine with it. But I am not sexually attracted to him. Even while we were dating I'd feel relief after a sex session because then i get a guilt free break for a while til it's the next session. This feeling increases as years go by. It is not that he is no good in bed. He is a total pleaser, but I can't drum up my interest. Maybe I am just selfish and lazy. But seriously I much rather spend my downtime reading/ having meaningful conversations. It's my idea of relaxing. I find sex a chore. I dunno if it became like that after the incident, but that was definitely a catalyst in decreasing my libido.

Yes both of us have a joint account and we are saving. Just that maybe due to my competitive nature i feel that financially we are progressing too slowly and I get frustrated when I can't plan and put a goal in sight.

Thanks for listening to my rant...


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## EleGirl

disappointedwife said:


> Hi Elegirl,
> 
> well he was found guilty but let off the hook. He paid for all the legal fees.
> 
> Yes I am working. We both earn decent enough to finance our own lifestyles but starting a family would be quite a squeeze. Probably no yearly holidays. (sounds depressing to me already)
> 
> About the sex/ spending time question, i understand where you are coming from. I wouldn't say he does not want to spend time with me. But that I feel our interactions are mainly cuddling and tickling each other, goofing around...which are great...but that feels just about it.
> 
> I know it's selfish to withhold sex and expect him to be fine with it. But I am not sexually attracted to him. Even while we were dating I'd feel relief after a sex session because then i get a guilt free break for a while til it's the next session. This feeling increases as years go by. It is not that he is no good in bed. He is a total pleaser, but I can't drum up my interest. Maybe I am just selfish and lazy. But seriously I much rather spend my downtime reading/ having meaningful conversations. It's my idea of relaxing. I find sex a chore. I dunno if it became like that after the incident, but that was definitely a catalyst in decreasing my libido.
> 
> Yes both of us have a joint account and we are saving. Just that maybe due to my competitive nature i feel that financially we are progressing too slowly and I get frustrated when I can't plan and put a goal in sight.
> 
> Thanks for listening to my rant...



Did you have any relationships before him that were sexual? How were you with sex in those relationships.

Do you understand how important sex is in marriage? Do not expect him to stay with you the way it is. He will either start having affairs or leave you. I would not blame him either.

If you would rather spend your time doing all that other stuff then you are not wife material. when you got married he promised to only have sex with you. Then you cut off the sex. That's about as cruel as it gets.

Since you are not sexually attracted to your husband and don't want sex, your best bet is to divorce him. Let him know that you are either asexual or have such low drive that you just don't want sex.

That way he can find a woman who wants sex as much as he does... there are plenty of women out there who love sex.

And you can find a low drive guy or some guy who actually turns you on.

He's not talking to you, not doing things with you, etc because he's profoundly unhappy in your marriage. Just about any man would be. Shoot most women would be profoundly unhappy in a marriage where her husband refused her sex for months on end.


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## Wolfman1968

disappointedwife said:


> I know it's selfish to withhold sex and expect him to be fine with it. But I am not sexually attracted to him. Even while we were dating I'd feel relief after a sex session because then i get a guilt free break for a while til it's the next session. This feeling increases as years go by. It is not that he is no good in bed. He is a total pleaser, but I can't drum up my interest. Maybe I am just selfish and lazy. But seriously I much rather spend my downtime reading/ having meaningful conversations. It's my idea of relaxing. I find sex a chore. I dunno if it became like that after the incident, but that was definitely a catalyst in decreasing my libido.


Well, this seems to support my earlier post; that the legal incident may just be the opportunity to use an excuse not to indulge in the sex that you disliked in the first place.


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## disappointedwife

wolfman:

a) yes you are right. fundamentally we have different drive and i should face it and not use the court case as an excuse. what can i do about this?

we did go for counselling sessions after the court case, things were fine after a while and our case was closed, counselling ended. I suspect the root problems never did go away or get solved because i am having a breakdown now.

b) you re right again about our family background and spending pattern. My family was well to do and I grew up thinking every family has a few properties and cars because my family and family friends are like that. He grew up in a one room rental flat with jobless father. It is also true I like instant gratification and while i am careful to save, i cannot bear to save and just live frugally. I know with inflation and all that i cannot compare my standard of living to that of my parents..sure i am priced out of what i thought to be a norm standard of living..and i should man up and face it. Yet when I see my peers surging forward i feel q lousy.

In general during counselling sessions I have a tendency to clam up and not say much when he is in the room, but when i am alone with the counsellor i can let it out. My last consellor did not advocate speaking privately because she felt the session should include us three.


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## MEM2020

DW,
These are both remarkably honest and helpful posts. 

You are clearly the mature partner and he is the more easy going partner. 

You don't sound compatible. I'm guessing that your lack of desire for him is partly caused by his lack of edge. This doesn't mean you want or need a difficult partner, it means you need a someone who is perhaps more man and less boy. 

The best thing to do in this type situation is outline your life plan. 
- How many children and when do you wish to begin
- Do you plan to be a significant wage contributor or prefer to be a SAHM
- Whatever you expect your financial contribution to be, figure out what that means your partner will need to earn to live the way you want

Does your current partner have the desire/ability to manage his career the way you want/expect. 

Do you realistically think you can solve the desire issue? Because if you cannot, it is unlikely to be a happy marriage. And it may become an unstable marriage. 

Far easier for both of you to find more compatible partners if you do not have children. 




disappointedwife said:


> Hi Elegirl,
> 
> well he was found guilty but let off the hook. He paid for all the legal fees.
> 
> Yes I am working. We both earn decent enough to finance our own lifestyles but starting a family would be quite a squeeze. Probably no yearly holidays. (sounds depressing to me already)
> 
> About the sex/ spending time question, i understand where you are coming from. I wouldn't say he does not want to spend time with me. But that I feel our interactions are mainly cuddling and tickling each other, goofing around...which are great...but that feels just about it.
> 
> I know it's selfish to withhold sex and expect him to be fine with it. But I am not sexually attracted to him. Even while we were dating I'd feel relief after a sex session because then i get a guilt free break for a while til it's the next session. This feeling increases as years go by. It is not that he is no good in bed. He is a total pleaser, but I can't drum up my interest. Maybe I am just selfish and lazy. But seriously I much rather spend my downtime reading/ having meaningful conversations. It's my idea of relaxing. I find sex a chore. I dunno if it became like that after the incident, but that was definitely a catalyst in decreasing my libido.
> 
> Yes both of us have a joint account and we are saving. Just that maybe due to my competitive nature i feel that financially we are progressing too slowly and I get frustrated when I can't plan and put a goal in sight.
> 
> Thanks for listening to my rant...


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## EleGirl

disappointedwife said:


> b) you re right again about our family background and spending pattern. My family was well to do and I grew up thinking every family has a few properties and cars because my family and family friends are like that. He grew up in a one room rental flat with jobless father. It is also true I like instant gratification and while i am careful to save, i cannot bear to save and just live frugally. I know with inflation and all that i cannot compare my standard of living to that of my parents..sure i am priced out of what i thought to be a norm standard of living..and i should man up and face it. Yet when I see my peers surging forward i feel q lousy.


IF you want to have the lifestyle that you family and friends have, the perhaps the answer is for you to earn it. Can you increase your income? What would you have to seriously increase your earning power?



disappointedwife said:


> In general during counselling sessions I have a tendency to clam up and not say much when he is in the room, but when i am alone with the counsellor i can let it out. My last consellor did not advocate speaking privately because she felt the session should include us three.


Can you see how dishonest it was for you to be quiet when your husband was there but then to open up to the counselor? How can he be a good husband to you if you do not let him know what you are really thinking and feeling?


.


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## LongWalk

What was the nature of the voyeurism?

If you don't enjoy sex with him, why stay married?

Does he want children?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Mr Blunt

*



Is this relationship headed for the rocks?

Click to expand...

**YES!!!*



> *By Disappointedwife*
> Been married for 4 years to an easy-going guy who seldom say no to people and totally dotes on me. He's supportive and encouraging to my interests and hobbies and mostly lets me make the decisions in our relationship.
> 2 months into our marriage he committed voyeurism and was charged in court.
> 
> 
> During these 3 years my drive went down and he felt rejected by me.
> 
> Let's just try to up our salary as much as possible now so that we''ll have enough". I get very deflated when I hear that
> 
> Doesn't help that when I see my peers starting families, purchasing their cars and buying second/third properties. I know it is not healthy to be so competitive all the time, but I think it is not wrong to want to work towards that. Somehow I feel like he does not actively plan for such milestones but believes in just keeping his head down, work hard and earn more.
> 
> the relationship between us is superficial and intellectually we don't connect.
> 
> In general I find myself losing respect for him because I don't feel proud of him. I don't need a superstar husband but I need to feel you are not stupid.
> Is this relationship headed for the rocks?..
> 
> 
> 
> But I am not sexually attracted to him. Even while we were dating I'd feel relief after a sex session because then i get a guilt free break for a while til it's the next session. This feeling increases as years go by. It is not that he is no good in bed. He is a total pleaser, but I can't drum up my interest.



*If I was your husband here is what I would think and do:*

I would find out everything there is on how to help you get over my BIG mistake of Voyeurism and then I would do it!


I would tell you that I am not like you and that I will work hard and try to get ahead as much as possible in the financial area. I will continue to dote on you, be supportive and encouraging to your interests and hobbies and mostly let you make the decisions in our relationship. However, I will not have the pressure of trying to keep up with the Joneses put on me by you or anyone else. Did you marry me for me or your desire for purchasing crass and second and third properties? You are going to have to make up your mind about your material extras or me. *Stop calling it “competitive” because really it is you putting extra materialism over me and I will not tolerate that!*

You say that you do not connect to me intellectually and that I am stupid. I will never tolerate that disrespect and if you do not change I will divorce you in heart beat. We have no children and I am not strapped to you for life

You not wanting to have sex with me will be a HUGE deal even if all the rest get better. I know that I can improve in areas also and I will but I will not tolerate you putting extra materialism over me, nor respecting me and thinking that I am stupid.

*I will do everything in my power to improve myself so that I can keep you as my wife but you must address those issues above and get them much better or I will divorce you and make another life without you.*

*



Is this relationship headed for the rocks?

Click to expand...

*You better believe it and it is very serious. You both can change and save the marriage but to ignore the things that you have posted is almost guaranteed destruction of the marriage!

*You have the resources and intelligence to get better so get after it now or your marriage is doomed. Getting the right information is not the hard part; the hard part is for YOU TO CHANGE YOU. That is all in your court!*

I can fully understand why you have kept your feeling to yourself and not told him. Your situation is dagereous but must be addressed!


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## disappointedwife

ele girl

yes you are right. I know deep down i am selfish for not addressing his needs. it cannot all be just about what i need what i like with nothing about him. 

i am going to find a chance to have a talk with him. it has been weighing on my mind ...worrying about how it's with him now that there is zero sex. i need to actively sort this issue out.

i am not a good communicator in that if i am displease with some issue i either clam up or i have an outburst (like calling him a minion). i need to rectify this too. i know even if he was in the wrong i should communicate properly


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## disappointedwife

Mr Blunt

i feel a couple is a team that works towards building stable finances to secure a comfortable retirement. Where I am from there is zero social welfare so you have no income you die. Does it still sound so crass that I am keen on building up my wealth and compare my progress with the Jonses? Maybe it still is.

Now, a few years back we had an argument and about standard of living and i realise i am stressing our relationship by pushing him to work towards a lifestyle i want. I am not expecting him to pay for me. I pay my share for everything, wedding, house, reno it's 50-50 split costs. However I feel he is contented to keep a simple life whereas i look forward to opportunities to upgrade and bring our lifestyle to a higher level whenever possible. I know this is not a bad aspiration but it is what i deem important, not to him. ENd result is that i feel like a runner running through mud and dragging him along. He gets stressed i get frustrated. I told myself stop forcing him and pushing him over the edge. But after a while i get discontented and it kind of starts again.

How can i keep myself in check and feeling balanced?

This big fight we had started bcause he told me to shut it and i responded by calling him sucker/minion/stupid in public. I am not proud of it, but at that moment i believed it was justified and i had a right to retaliate. So he responded in public and it's a mess now... I dont want to think of my husband as stupid. So do i have to scale down my expectations, tweak my mindset? 
how can i change?


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## disappointedwife

MEM,

my heart sinks when i think of us not being compatible because it sounds like a death sentence that no one likes to get.

thank you for giving me a series of life plans to make. i will try to talk it out with him so that it makes me more calm and less likely to bounce off the walls with uncertainties. 

although i think the answer for him will veer towards trying our best and see where it brings us. then this prob i have with him loops again. how can i talk to him to extract answers with more details and thought put into it other then a general "let's try our best" ?

is there any way work out around the imcompatible issue? i'm scared.


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## turnera

disappointedwife said:


> I know it's selfish to withhold sex and expect him to be fine with it. But I am not sexually attracted to him. Even while we were dating I'd feel relief after a sex session because then i get a guilt free break for a while til it's the next session.


I have an aversion, too. But trust me, you will NOT stay married if you don't do something about it. At least find other ways to get him satisfied if you won't do intercourse. No offense, but it IS part of the deal of being married. If you're not willing, do him a favor and divorce him.


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## turnera

As far as the marriage goes, the two of you need to read His Needs Her Needs together, and do the workbook stuff. It's conversations you two need to have.


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## Mr Blunt

> By Dissapointedwife
> And this is the tip of the iceberg. These days I started thinking about what went wrong and I decided to pen them down so that I can see more clearly


Your words below are justness of your statement that shows a very serious attitude by you. *Can you explain in detail as to why you are not proud of him and feel that he is stupid?*



> In general I find myself losing respect for him because I don't feel proud of him. I don't need a superstar husband but I need to feel you are not stupid
> 
> 
> Doesn't help that when I see my peers starting families, purchasing their cars and buying second/third properties
> 
> Where I am from there is zero social welfare so you have no income you die. Does it still sound so crass that I am keen on building up my wealth and compare my progress with the Joneses? Maybe it still is.



From your previous posts I see that you both work and do not have any children. I am assuming that you are not in poverty and may even is in the medium to high medium income. You have all the essentials of life but you want more. There is not anything wrong with that but if you have negative feelings for your husband because he is mostly satisfied with your material goods that you now have then that is a huge problem. 

Another problem is that you compare yourself with the joneses. Getting your satisfaction in life from comparing yourself with others is a losing battle. If you wanted to hae the same material goods that the joneses have then you could move t place that has a bunch of poverty that do not have what you have materially. Would that satisfy you? Of course not!


I am going to make a guess here. *Would you have real serious issue with security and use material goods as a measure of security?* I can see that being the case for someone that is on social welfare as you have mentioned but you are not in that condition.* Do you measure your self worth based upon matching the joneses? *Wanting to purchase other cars and second/third properties to make you satisfied seems like a problem that will cause a lot of difficulties.



> How can I keep myself in check and feeling balanced?


You seem to be quite a bit overly worried about keeping up with the joneses. Do you think that you could benefit from getting professions help to see if you are out of whack and how to get balanced?

In addition you have stated that you and your husband have issues with sex, rejection, and respect, and strong negative feelings about his intellectual capacity.



> By Disappointed wife
> I don’t want to think of my husband as stupid. So do I have to scale down my expectations, tweak my mindset?
> How can I change?


Disappointed wife, the fact that you are asking “how can I change” is a very good start. You have been very brave to state your situation and that will help you with good professional help.

Here is my conclusion at this point.

You and your husband have some very serious issues in your marriage and without improvement it will break. We here at this web site (TAM) maybe able to help you some but your situation needs professional help. You have issues with sex and attitudes that has been going on for year’s but it obvious that you cannot get out of this negative cycle by yourself. You and your husband are going to have to get a good professional and then you are going to have to be willing to change even if you not want to. If you both stay on the path that you are now in your marriage will go broke!


You are brave and honest and your husband has some good points also so you do have something to work with. If you both are willing to look at yourself and change what is negative then my bet is that you can save this marriage. One very important key is THAT YOU LOOK AT YOURSELF because you cannot change anyone you can only change yourself. You seem to already be doing that with your looking at yourself. *Now you need to get the right direction to take the right actions then DO IT!!! Doing the right actions is what will save the marriage.*
Blunt


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## turnera

Mr. Blunt, I just want to point out that Financial Security is typically one of womens' top 5 Emotional Needs. It is a legitimate EN. I agree with the rest of your post, but she has every right to be upset if her financial goals and his financial goals don't align (which requires actually talking about it, Disappointed Wife).


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## Mr Blunt

> *By Turnera*
> Mr. Blunt, I just want to point out that Financial Security is typically one of womens' top 5 Emotional Needs. It is a legitimate EN. I agree with the rest of your post, but she has every right to be upset if her financial goals and his financial goals don't align (which requires actually talking about it, Disappointed Wife).



I agree that financial security is an emotional need. My questions have to do with her having such negative attitudes toward her husband because he does not have such a highly competitive nature, according to DW, in regards to pursuing more material goods and financial security at a faster pace. He seems to be working a lot to help financially


> *By DissapointedWife*
> Husband been working late the past few days, sometimes til 4am. I am not thrilled but I understand his company culture





Based upon her posts she is not in danger of going on social welfare. In fact she has all the necessities of life and is able to put money in savings. She seems to be showing disrespect and thinking her husband is stupid partly because he will not have the same outlook on their future financial goals as she does and will not conform to her way. *They are progressing in their financial situation but she feels it is going to “slowly”*



> *By Disappointedwife*
> Somehow I feel like he does not actively plan for such milestones but believes in just keeping his head down, work hard and earn more.
> 
> Yes I am working. We both earn decent enough to finance our own lifestyles but starting a family would be quite a squeeze.
> 
> Yes both of us have a joint account and we are saving. Just that maybe due to my competitive nature i feel that financially we are progressing too slowly and I get frustrated when I can't plan and put a goal in sight.
> 
> Yet when I see my peers surging forward i feel q lousy.
> 
> My family was well to do and I grew up thinking every family has a few properties and cars because my family and family friends are like that.



DisappointedWife's actual words above are quite revealing



> *By Turnera*
> but she has every right to be upset if her financial goals and his financial goals don't align



At this point I disagree. She has all the necessities of life and is building her savings account. He is working hard and that contributes to her being able to add to her savings account. I do not feel that she has a right to expect her husband to fulfill ALL her financial expectations because they have all the necessities and are saving for the future. What are her financial expectations? Well we know how she grew up thinking that every family has a few properties and cars. *They are progressing financially just too slowly for her.*

Her disrespect for him and thinking that he is stupid partly because he does not do more to fulfill her desires for financial security and material goods are going to break the relationship sooner or later unless there is a change in attitude

*If she wants to hold on to her attitudes she will lose a man that she says this about:*




> *By Disappointedwife*
> Been married for 4 years to an easy-going guy who seldom say no to people and totally dotes on me. He's supportive and encouraging to my interests and hobbies and mostly lets me make the decisions in our relationship.


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## turnera

When a woman wants a go-getter man - which feeds into several aspects of his life and personality - and she ends up with a laid-back man, it very much affects her desire for him. What she's describing is not just a desire for more money; most likely, it's a desire for a man who goes and gets what he wants, who pushes when he doesn't get it, who goes into his boss's office and says I deserve a raise...what she's basically saying is that she wants a man who is more alpha than beta. THAT is what most women mean when they say that Financial Security is a top need.

This is just proof of that:


> mostly lets me make the decisions in our relationship.


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## Mr Blunt

> *By Turnera*
> When a woman wants a go-getter man - which feeds into several aspects of his life and personality - and she ends up with a laid-back man, it very much affects her desire for him. What she's describing is not just a desire for more money; most likely, it's a desire for a man who goes and gets what he wants, who pushes when he doesn't get it, who goes into his boss's office and says I deserve a raise...what she's basically saying is that she wants a man who is more alpha than beta. THAT is what most women mean when they say that Financial Security is a top need.
> 
> This is just proof of that:
> Quote:
> 
> mostly lets me make the decisions in our relationship


. 


This man works hard and is willing to take the long view and continue saving for their financial future. She wants instant gratification and wants ‘…a few properties and cars “like she is used to with her parents. Her emotions are affected by what other people have and when they have more than her she feels “lousy” 



> By Disappointed wife[/B]
> Yet when I see my peers surging forward I feel *lousy.*






> By Wolfman1968
> 
> approach to money. *Sounds like he is one to delay gratification to build a career/finances first. Sounds like you have a need for immediate gratification*. Often, these different kinds of approaches to life come from how you are each brought up. These difference can be difficult to reconcile; he may always feel insecure and unhappy without having a great deal of financial reserve. *You may feel unhappy not spending money like you see others do*. This difference could be insurmountable.
> 
> 
> 
> By Disappointed wife
> *you re right again* about our family background and spending pattern. *My family was well to do and I grew up thinking every family has a few properties and cars because my family and family friends are like that*. He grew up in a one room rental flat with jobless father. *It is also true I like instant gratification* and while i am careful to save, i cannot bear to save and just live frugally. I know with inflation and all that i cannot compare my standard of living to that of my parents..sure i am priced out of what i thought to be a norm standard of living..and *i should man up and face it*.
> 
> Yet when I see my peers surging forward i feel *lousy*





*She may want a more alpha man but her main issue is that she wants a few properties and cars and she wants it instantly. In addition, she disrespects him and calls him stupid because she think that he is stupid. I think my earlier post is still valid; here it is below:*




> Her disrespect for him and thinking that he is stupid partly because he does not do more to fulfill her desires for financial security and material goods are going to break the relationship sooner or later unless there is a change in attitude
> 
> 
> *If she wants to hold on to her attitudes she will lose a man that she says this about:*
> 
> Quote:
> *By Disappointedwife*
> Been married for 4 years to an easy-going guy who seldom say no to people and totally dotes on me. He's supportive and encouraging to my interests and hobbies and mostly lets me make the decisions in our relationship.


----------



## turnera

That doesn't make her wrong. Or bad. Just incompatible.


----------



## CarlaRose

You've said some things that I don't understand because they are rather contradictive.

One is that you both work, but you cannot afford to have children, buy a car, build a retirement fund, improve your lifestyle in any way, and, from the sounds of it, it's something of a crunch to even make ends meet. Did I misunderstand something? What country do you live in? And, if other people are doing these things, then perhaps you both need to change careers. Or something.

Another thing is you said your husband is pleasing to you in bed, but you're not sexually attracted to him. Sexually attracted means, in some cases, he doesn't please you in bed. So, are you saying he gives you oral gratification, but the intercourse portion is boring, which makes you not want to be bothered? Or, are you saying you have some kind of mental block due to the voyeur charges and due to other things that make it difficult to respect him. Both could be the reasons, but I'm not clear on what/which you're saying the reason is.

Moreover, I think you should look into your husband's finances. I can't be certain if you know how much he earns and where his money goes. It almost seems like he is hiding something from you and he's being intentionally evasive of all these things you try to discuss with him.

And finally, it doesn't seem you know your husband very well. Like I said, you should look into his finances but also, can you be certain he doesn't have similar feelings toward you that you have toward him? Maybe he also is not happy or doesn't feel secure in the marriage. Perhaps he could be considering divorce or wondering about it since he makes no effort to even discuss moving forward or improving anything. In the very least, he cannot possibly be happy with there being zero sex in his marriage. He doesn't understand that because you've not spoken to him about it, so he might feel he's married and stuck with a cold fish. 

There's a reason he is evasive. See what kind of snooping you can do. I also think you are too trusting (and possibly taking him for granted). I don't know if I would be comfortable with my husband saying he's "working" until 4 in the morning. Even if I were familiar with the nature of the business, I'd still have quite a few questions considering everything you've told us.


----------



## NewToHeartBreak

I'm a little confused, you want a high achieving go getter but your angry he's working late and putting to much focus on work? 

Isn't he doing exactly what you claim you want? If you want I higher standard of living one of you a least has to go earn the cash to pay for it. It sounds like you have put a lot of pressure on him to achieve more in his carrier and it also sounds like the man is trying to do his best.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> That doesn't make her wrong. Or bad. Just incompatible.


*What it will make her is divorced if she does not change. 
Of course he has to do his part also.*


----------



## turnera

Oh sure. She's the woman so SHE should change. smh


----------



## john117

turnera said:


> Mr. Blunt, I just want to point out that Financial Security is typically one of womens' top 5 Emotional Needs. It is a legitimate EN. I agree with the rest of your post, but she has every right to be upset if her financial goals and his financial goals don't align (which requires actually talking about it, Disappointed Wife).


My wife also considers me 'stupid' and 'lazy' but I have a PhD just like her, make a bit more than her, have a very stable job (unlike her), and work bank hours compared to her gulag hours.

My wife, because of her upbringing, thinks that we are all entitled to our immense house, expensive cars, etc. If she used that PhD of hers a little more she would have figured out how stupid it was in the grand scheme of things to spend it on bricks. 

Wife can have all the financial goals in the world, but if the goals are established because in her culture that's how they do it (build Taj Mahal houses) then I suggest a bit of adjustment to the local reality and the real financial reality, not what one sees thru their colored sunglasses.

It seems to me that OP really is not interested in this marriage and is looking for ways out. Can't blame her, but can't go around blaming anyone else either. If she married him for love she knew what she was getting into. All of a sudden the dreams of multiple houses and cars are not materializing because of other things happening and it's just the husband's fault?

Some people only care to work 40 hours a week. I am like that. I get weekly requests for interviews in LinkedIn from all the famous places. I don't care. I love what I do, I love how many (or few) hours I get away with, and I love the people I work with (esp. the interns ). I'm not going to work 60 or 80 hour weeks to help my wife improve her standard of living. We have a top notch standard of living, golden spoons. Do we need to kill ourselves for platinum spoons?


----------



## clipclop2

Why do you want to start a family with a perf?

Also if you aren't into sex before children you are certainly not going to be into sex after having them.

Think carefully.

Your desires given the situation are about checking off boxes and not about being responsible.

Children are no joke. And bringing them into a terrible situation is just plain selfish.

Grow up,


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By turnea
> That doesn't make her wrong. Or bad. Just incompatible.
> 
> By Mr Blunt
> What it will make her is divorced if she does not change.
> Of course he has to do his part also.
> 
> 
> By Turnea
> Oh sure. She's the woman so SHE should change. smh


Are you going to drag this into a man treats woman wrong, trying to make it into a male chauvinist pig debate?


Try reading my entire post without your bias


"Of course *he* has to do his part also."


----------



## Evinrude58

The op' gripes are pretty awful in my opinion. The man works his arse off, doesn't get any sex or respect from his wife, and she reaches a certain age and pulls the I'm not happy card. I'll bet if it were easy to find a higher paying job he'd have done it. Why doesn't she go make more money? This is all about her own selfish desires. She won't be happy with him or anyone else. Some folks are just never content.


----------



## clipclop2

Miss the part where he is a sexual pervert did you?????


----------



## john117

Depending on where they live looking at a few strands of hair or an ankle could be voyerism... 

With my Nikon telephoto lenses I'd be stoned to Stonehenge size in such countries


----------



## clipclop2

I don't think that's the case.


----------



## Openminded

Was it an arranged marriage? If not, why marry someone you aren't attracted to? That's stacking the deck against him from the beginning.


----------



## disappointedwife

turnera said:


> When a woman wants a go-getter man - which feeds into several aspects of his life and personality - and she ends up with a laid-back man, it very much affects her desire for him. What she's describing is not just a desire for more money; most likely, it's a desire for a man who goes and gets what he wants, who pushes when he doesn't get it, who goes into his boss's office and says I deserve a raise...what she's basically saying is that she wants a man who is more alpha than beta. THAT is what most women mean when they say that Financial Security is a top need.
> 
> This is just proof of that:


Thank you Turnera for your total understanding of me and my situation. This issue surfaced when we were in our early dating days. We dated for 9 years before we married. Coming to 4th yr of marriage now. I was hoping we'll come to a meeting point eventually, but it seems like we still can't. If he's feeling fine, I'm bored, if I'm feeling pumped up to plan, he's indifferent.


----------



## disappointedwife

NewToHeartBreak said:


> I'm a little confused, you want a high achieving go getter but your angry he's working late and putting to much focus on work?
> 
> Isn't he doing exactly what you claim you want? If you want I higher standard of living one of you a least has to go earn the cash to pay for it. It sounds like you have put a lot of pressure on him to achieve more in his carrier and it also sounds like the man is trying to do his best.


He'll work very hard, try his best at work, that's v commendable...but I think in real life the amount of effort you put into work does not have a linear relationship to the rewards you get from your boss. My issue is that he is not sharp enough to realize this, and bosses who are sharp enough can always use your simplistic and naïve nature against you. So it's like I have to play the bad guy to remind him to be more discerning (which is fine), but sometimes he joins the other side to condemn me for not being understanding/dedicated employee and all that "love ur job, work wkends" bull****.... I think he's been brainwashed by society into being a "dedicated, responsible worker"(which I feel is code for "minion" "sucker").


----------



## disappointedwife

Mr Blunt said:


> Are you going to drag this into a man treats woman wrong, trying to make it into a male chauvinist pig debate?
> 
> 
> Try reading my entire post without your bias
> 
> 
> "Of course *he* has to do his part also."


This is about us having different wants and expectations, preferably before marriage we should have aligned our goals and expectations, but he thought these "pre-marriage workshops' were redundant and a waste of money. I wish I had persisted in attending them. Moving on we need to address these differences now...any ideas how to do it best?


----------



## disappointedwife

CarlaRose said:


> You've said some things that I don't understand because they are rather contradictive.
> 
> One is that you both work, but you cannot afford to have children, buy a car, build a retirement fund, improve your lifestyle in any way, and, from the sounds of it, it's something of a crunch to even make ends meet. Did I misunderstand something? What country do you live in? And, if other people are doing these things, then perhaps you both need to change careers. Or something.
> 
> Another thing is you said your husband is pleasing to you in bed, but you're not sexually attracted to him. Sexually attracted means, in some cases, he doesn't please you in bed. So, are you saying he gives you oral gratification, but the intercourse portion is boring, which makes you not want to be bothered? Or, are you saying you have some kind of mental block due to the voyeur charges and due to other things that make it difficult to respect him. Both could be the reasons, but I'm not clear on what/which you're saying the reason is.
> 
> Moreover, I think you should look into your husband's finances. I can't be certain if you know how much he earns and where his money goes. It almost seems like he is hiding something from you and he's being intentionally evasive of all these things you try to discuss with him.
> 
> And finally, it doesn't seem you know your husband very well. Like I said, you should look into his finances but also, can you be certain he doesn't have similar feelings toward you that you have toward him? Maybe he also is not happy or doesn't feel secure in the marriage. Perhaps he could be considering divorce or wondering about it since he makes no effort to even discuss moving forward or improving anything. In the very least, he cannot possibly be happy with there being zero sex in his marriage. He doesn't understand that because you've not spoken to him about it, so he might feel he's married and stuck with a cold fish.
> 
> There's a reason he is evasive. See what kind of snooping you can do. I also think you are too trusting (and possibly taking him for granted). I don't know if I would be comfortable with my husband saying he's "working" until 4 in the morning. Even if I were familiar with the nature of the business, I'd still have quite a few questions considering everything you've told us.


Standards of living here are high, young people are priced out of basics like starting family, having family car...it sounds like a crunch to you right? and our combined salary is low 5-figure. and we cannot afford a ****ing car.

I am not the only one having these issues. Many of my peers are facing this prob, but quite a number manage it because to their credit their salaries rise higher than standard of living. I know we need do something to beat the rising SOL, that's why I feel v urgently, the need to do financial planning and wealth building. I am comparing with the Jonses, yes I am, but if I don't, I believe we will end up miserable in our golden years because we did not keep our progress in check. That's y I get frustrated when I get nowhere with him in this department. 

With regards to sex, I find intercourse boring. I don't know what's the big deal for so much work. It is probably not right/responsible/wife material...blah blah...to say "selfish" things like this. But I can't help it. If it is boring to me, it is. the "try lighting candles..play music....foreplay" suggestions bore me even more.

I will not go into the "is he really working?" part because I am very sure he is. In my part of the world this enslaving of workers is very common and many accept this as a mark of dedication to work. ( the thought of this revolting to me btw)


----------



## disappointedwife

clipclop2 said:


> Why do you want to start a family with a perf?
> 
> Also if you aren't into sex before children you are certainly not going to be into sex after having them.
> 
> Think carefully.
> 
> Your desires given the situation are about checking off boxes and not about being responsible.
> 
> Children are no joke. And bringing them into a terrible situation is just plain selfish.
> 
> Grow up,


I enjoy checking boxes because they give me a sense of satisfaction when I work hard for my goals and I achieve them. 
I only need to grow up if I am forcing my husband to check my boxes instead of our common boxes.
I believe that is the issue now.


----------



## disappointedwife

Evinrude58 said:


> The op' gripes are pretty awful in my opinion. The man works his arse off, doesn't get any sex or respect from his wife, and she reaches a certain age and pulls the I'm not happy card. I'll bet if it were easy to find a higher paying job he'd have done it. Why doesn't she go make more money? This is all about her own selfish desires. She won't be happy with him or anyone else. Some folks are just never content.


Need to clarify that I didn't marry him so that he can earn a lot while I sit back and relax. If I wanted that I wouldn't have married a poor boy from a disadvantaged background. Until last year, my earning power has been above his. 

I married him because I see the potential to excel in life as a team with him. This potential I see is grit and kindness. However, over the years, i realize kindness can mean being naïve to others making use of you, and grit can mean going at it like a simple bull without thinking is there a smarter way to doing things.

Yes i am not contented. because if you are too naïve and simple, it never ends too well, you get done in by others.


----------



## disappointedwife

Openminded said:


> Was it an arranged marriage? If not, why marry someone you aren't attracted to? That's stacking the deck against him from the beginning.


Nah, not arranged! 

I feel guilty bout stacking the deck against him right frm the start. It's unfair. I tell myself that you know his situation right from the start, so y complain now? 

When i was much younger this " no attraction"wasn't so much of an issue. I was hopeful his positive traits can cover the "negative one". However seems like this negative one is in a very important aspect of my life. 

I'm afraid to admit i may have made a mistake in choosing someone so different frm me. 'opposites attract!" "you guys are good complements for each other!" we and the people around us like to say that all the time. i am not sure are there truths in this.

In any case, mistakes can be corrected sometimes, i just wish this is one of those times. And i don't mean divorce as a solution.


----------



## disappointedwife

Mr Blunt said:


> Your words below are justness of your statement that shows a very serious attitude by you. *Can you explain in detail as to why you are not proud of him and feel that he is stupid?*
> 
> Husband works til 4am on fri morn and after 2 hrs of sleep, goes back to work at 9.30am.
> Sat lunch his boss calls him
> " need to discuss work, what are you doing now?"
> "I am about to have lunch," he says.
> Boss goes on to talk 20 min about work while his lunch gets cold and his wife gets increasingly annoyed and motions for him to get off the phone..
> After 20 min, wife says " y cant you call back in 20 min? y did he bother asking what are you doing when he obviously does not give a **** and has every intention to go ahead and talk about work , be rude to you and your dining partner? "
> husband says " when boss calls it must be urgent. shut up about this ok it's already done."
> 
> Mr Blunt, i know i didn't marry a genius, but do you not think this is really pushing it? i think stupid is a very kind word to describe it as it is.
> 
> You seem to be quite a bit overly worried about keeping up with the joneses. Do you think that you could benefit from getting professions help to see if you are out of whack and how to get balanced?
> 
> someone from overseas once asked me this " why is everyone here always thinking of how to earn more money??"
> my reply to him is " if you earn our salary and you need to buy our housing, car, education...and think of retiring here..i bet you ll be thinking of money more than we do".
> 
> that is my reply to you too Mr Blunt. I don't blame you for not understanding my situation because i know you cannot picture it.


----------



## disappointedwife

turnera said:


> Mr. Blunt, I just want to point out that Financial Security is typically one of womens' top 5 Emotional Needs. It is a legitimate EN. I agree with the rest of your post, but she has every right to be upset if her financial goals and his financial goals don't align (which requires actually talking about it, Disappointed Wife).


i try to talk about it with him, he's not keen to get into such discussions because he has this idea that you only talk about financial planning when you have the finances to plan. Then he goes back to working like a bull.

I feel the air go out of me everytime this happens. Everytime.


----------



## turnera

Two things: Read Rich Dad Poor Dad. Together, or read it out loud to him.

And go to Dave Ramsey's website and start reading everything he has about money.

Even if your H won't participate, YOU can start making smarter choices for the both of you.


----------



## Acorn

It really sounds like you guys are polar opposites... you don't understand what the big deal about sex is, and consider it "so much work". He feels the same way about finances. Sadly, you both have very little to give in the areas that would make the other happiest.

I think that opposites attract, and can make good partners. But, for that to happen, you need to actually appreciate each others differences. (Instead of thinking that financial discussions should be put off because they make him uncomfortable, he'd have to recognize that he's got a huge asset with you and your ability to see why it's important. Same with you - his sex drive would have to be seen as a benefit to help you see why sex isn't just a chore but something that brings you together.) Right now, your differences are dividing you.


----------



## disappointedwife

turnera said:


> Two things: Read Rich Dad Poor Dad. Together, or read it out loud to him.
> 
> And go to Dave Ramsey's website and start reading everything he has about money.
> 
> Even if your H won't participate, YOU can start making smarter choices for the both of you.


I do ensure I never stop planning for us both, I try my best. Just that sometimes it feels lonely not to have a teammate to discuss things with you. On good days I shrug it off and soldier on thinking no big deal. On bad days I feel v turned off by him. I guess I just need to educate him on the importance of planning. N education takes time..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr Blunt

Disappointedwife

You are right it is about you two having different wants and expectations but *it is more than that now.*
Since you are the one writing on this forum and not your husband I will mostly address you as I have not heard your husband’s side.


It is very obvious that you are very frustrated with your husband for not taking the actions that you want in the planning for your financial future. Of course I agree with you that the financial future is very important but some people have a different nature about that and they are not trying to aggravate you on purpose. My wife is like your husband and would not even have a retirement if it were not for me.
However, like your husband she has some other very good qualities and supports me in many areas. Marriage is usually a situation where each partner has more ability that the other in some areas. *When they realize that their nature is different and overlook those differences that are not marriage busters, work together, adjust and change, then they become successful*.



At this point his views in future financial security is not as strong as yours and you have become *RESENTFUL TOWARDS HIM.* You demonstrate your resentments by having a* very disrespectful opinion and attitude towards him*. Here reprinted below are some of your own words describing your opinions and attitudes




> Quotes of Disappointedwife





> *Think of my husband as stupid
> Losing respect for him
> I don't feel proud of him
> Brainwashed by society
> "minion" "sucker").
> naïve and simple*




I know that you are an intelligent woman but your resentments are clouding your views and attitudes. Your husband needs to understand that financial security is a HUGE deal to you and to change in his actions and work with you to improve in that area and any other area that he can improve in. If it is his nature, like it is my wife’s nature, to not think like you then he is not ever going to have the drive that you do.


On issues that you both can compromise on you can get help and improve. However, your attitude and opinion about your husband that is coupled with deep resentments has to change. In addition your sex life is also a marriage breaker. 


Your husband may have more issues than I have addressed but I can tell you that no strong man will ever stay in a relationship with a woman that has such a low opinion of him, such low respect, and a sex life that is not even adequate for a 60 year old man. I am not trying to rag on you but you want the truth as to how a strong man thinks with your situation and I am trying to give you the blunt truth.
*I know you can rationalize my opinion away and tell me to kiss you’re a__ _ but who will be the loser in the end? It sure will not be me.*


You asked in an earlier post “How can I change” and I will repeat below what I said earlier. *If you and your husband do not change you will be divorced or become more miserable than you are now every year.*




> You and your husband have some very serious issues in your marriage and without improvement it will break. We here at this web site (TAM) maybe able to help you some but your situation needs professional help. You have issues with sex and attitudes that has been going on for year’s but it obvious that you cannot get out of this negative cycle by yourself. You and your husband are going to have to get a good professional and then you are going to have to be willing to change even if you do not want to. If you both stay on the path that you are now in your marriage will go broke!
> 
> 
> You are brave and honest and your husband has some good points also so you do have something to work with. If you both are willing to look at yourself and change what is negative then my bet is that you can save this marriage. One very important key is THAT YOU LOOK AT YOURSELF because you cannot change anyone you can only change yourself. *You seem to already be doing that with your looking at yourself. Now you need to get the right direction to take the right actions then DO IT!!! Doing the right actions is what will save the marriage.*
> Blunt


----------



## disappointedwife

Nah mr blunt, I'm not gonna say unconstructive things like kiss my arse. I also did not start this thread to convince everyone I'm right.
I turned to the forum bcos I have low opinions of my husband but I cannot tell him in his face. Although I think it might v well have shown tru some of my actions. i m here because i v much need an outlet to vent my frustrations, and to hear about third party views regarding my thoughts and problems.

Yes I'm resentful because he doesn't share my attitude towards life and because he is different from me I got frustrated and mad n prob let this cloud my views and attitude. He told me before I'm a v extreme person, things with me are either yes or no, like or dislike, black or white.. No grey area, no in betweens.. And he feels like if I have an opinion, it must be the truth and ppl who disagree are surely wrong. While I do not think it's negative to be v opinionated, i m starting to see this creates issues for me sometimes. I have ppl telling me I can'texpect everyone to think like me, i can't bulldoze my way tru to get what I want.

Mb this is the area I need to work on.. Being impatient with ppl who can't c my point of view.. It's not easy to adjust n change, my tendency is to dismiss and judge them ..n get them to do it my way. I prob need to be smarter bout this... Mb when I do so, it'll put me in a better mood for sex. I suspect they're linked.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

disappointedwife said:


> He told me before I'm a very extreme person, things with me are either yes or no, like or dislike, black or white. No grey area, no in betweens. And he feels like if I have an opinion, it must be the truth and people who disagree are surely wrong. While I do not think it's negative to be very opinionated, I'm starting to see this creates issues for me sometimes. I have people telling me I can't expect everyone to think like me, I can't bulldoze my way through to get what I want.


I'm glad you are seeing this, because being a black and white thinker is INCREDIBLY hard on the person you're with. Even with coworkers, friends, family. I'm married to one and it's demeaning, humbling, exasperating, makes us lose hope of ever being on an even level with that person. If you have more than one person tell you this out loud, I GUARANTEE there are half a dozen more who think it of you - and are not happy being around you. 

And it doesn't just create issues for YOU.


----------



## disappointedwife

Btw, mr blunt and all, I've told you why I found him stupid. What's your take on this?


----------



## Acorn

disappointedwife said:


> Btw, mr blunt and all, I've told you why I found him stupid. What's your take on this?


My take is that you have a lot of contempt for your husband. Contempt is one of the biggest predictors of divorce.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Disappointed wife.
> Btw, mr blunt and all, I've told you why I found him stupid. *What's your take on this? *




You find him stupid because:



> he does not seem interested into going into details
> 
> he does not actively plan for such milestones
> 
> the amount of effort you put into work does not have a linear relationship to the rewards you get from your boss. My issue is that he is not sharp enough to realize this
> 
> "love ur job, work wkends" bull****.... I think he's been brainwashed by society into being a "dedicated, responsible worker"(which I feel is code for "minion" "sucker").


Your husband is not on this forum to defend himself so I will use your words about him. Here are your words in reference to your husband responding to your addressing planning for the financial future



> trying our best and see where it brings us.
> 
> Let's just try to up our salary as much as possible now so that we''ll have enough
> 
> but believes in just keeping his head down, work hard and earn more.
> 
> He'll work very hard, try his best at work, that's v commendable


*Your husband does not have the nature that you do or the views about work that you do*. He may not have the ability to do more in planning for your financial future other than to be a good, dedicated, responsible, hard worker. You call him stupid, minion, and a sucker so if he is not measuring up to your standard for planning for the future then what is your plan for yourself? *Do not try to blame him but instead what are you doing to keep up with the joneses?* So far you have not said much about what YOU are going to do to get those cars and 2nd and 3rd properties. You are the one that is so adamant on your financial futures so tell us what have you done.

Let’s assume that your husband is just a dedicated, responsible, good and hard worker but does not or will not address financial planning like you want him to. *Are you going to continue to look down on him, call him names, have a very resentful attitude towards him, and respond sexually to him like you are both 80 years old?*



Here is my take on you calling him stupid and in addition to your attitude that includes you feeling superior to him and you being full of disappointment and resentment.
I am sure your husband has some faults but there is going to be faults in every marriage. *The question is what you are willing to change and accept. It is very obvious that the main problem you have with your husband is your claim that he is stupid, a minion, and a sucker because he does not have the same financial attitude that you do.*

On the other hand you have said the following about husband:


> This potential I see is grit and kindness.
> 
> Easy-going guy who seldom say no to people
> 
> and totally dotes on me.
> 
> He's supportive and encouraging to my interests and hobbies
> 
> and mostly lets me make the decisions in our relationship


*My final take SUMMARY*

*If I were your husband I would make a plan to get out of the marriage with you*. You seem very convinced that you are right about your financial desires and your husband is not capable or willing to fulfill your goals that include keeping up with the joneses.


*You have the attitude of superiority over him, resent him, have called him very disrespectful names and your sexual life with him reveals some of the great failures in the marriage.* . If your husband is a strong man then he will divorce you and find a woman that is more compatible than you are. If he is a weak man he will try to appease you but unless you change and he changes the marriage will get worse every year.


You have been given enough information on this thread to take actions to make it better. It is not that you need more information *the issue is with your attitude and actions*. Yes he has to change also but the only fault that you have listed in your posts are that he is stupid, a minion, and a sucker because he does not agree with your financial plans. On the other hand he has a lot of qualities that some women would be delighted to have him as a husband.

*It seems that your financial goals are more important to you than your husband is.*

You can deem my response to you as me just picking on you but just think about where your relationship with your husband will be one year from now if you do not change your attitude. This thread will be history and probably no one will even remember it. However, you will be living with the consequences of your actions for the rest of your life.


I hope that you and your husband get a LOT better but if I was betting on the outcome I would not bet that you two will make it in your relationship.


You have some positive qualities such as brutal honesty, intelligence, and a willingness to ask the right questions but unless the attitude changes there is no hope for your relationship. *You can change things for the better if you really wnat to. Get help and be willing to change because you can never change anyone but yourself.*


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## Baablacksheep

Ouch Mr. Blunt is ,well, being blunt !!!!

DW, a strong man like you say you want would have already dumped you. Cause he's not going to put up with being treated like that. And any tendency your man has of being strong your killing by your contempt that you have for him. See what he's feeling inside is, she thinks I'm stupid, why bother putting my heart into it. The negative feelings you have toward him, also are likely connected to the lack of desire for him. When you have contempt and disrespect toward someone, that don't exactly make you feel like jumping their bones................


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## disappointedwife

It's been 2 years since I last posted back in July 2014 and much has happened. Here's an update:

In aug 2015, I found out the husband has been visiting prostitutes since Jan 2013.
I guess when I was griping so much about him in this thread, the rot was already in full swing, I just didn't know what exactly was wrong.

I asked him what he intended for us, to divorce? He asked for another chance n I got him a counsellor while deciding to take some time to figure out what to do.

4 months later, in Dec 2015,i discovered he had been stock trading and losing money since 2012. Trading debts ran up to 25k, he confessed abt the secret debts after I pressed him. No more lies, he promised. 
3 days later, after more digging on my part,i realised that actual debt amount was 100k. So much for no more lies.
I've been socking part of his salary away for him for years because I know he's not capable of financial planning. So I gave him the money to repay his debts. Bit by bit.

2 weeks later, I got retrenched from my job.

While job searching in Jan 2016, I got pregnant.

In March 2016, I cashed out the last of his money for his partial debt repayment. He used the money to fund his trading instead.
I asked him to choose between me or trading. He said if he stopped trading he'll be unhappy because he knows he can "make it big" in trading one day.

I asked for a divorce.

His addiction counselor spoke to him.
He stopped all trading and said he wants to be a good father and gave me full control of his bank accounts.

I'm really not sure why i continue to keep digging my own grave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

What have you done for YOUR growth and learning?


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## disappointedwife

I learnt to never trust someone completely. At the end of the day, i can only depend on myself. I hope this is growth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mclane

All these problems with your marriage and you got pregnant in the midst of all of them.

Talk about compounded errors.


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## disappointedwife

I know right. The marriage probably ended long ago. I just didn't exit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sokillme

disappointedwife said:


> I'm really not sure why i continue to keep digging my own grave.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah that pretty much sums it up. Seems you have a sever form of codependency. Do you go to any councilor?


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## disappointedwife

I'm known as a very independent person to my friends. That's the wierd thing isn't it. I travel on solo holidays and gave him lots freedom, nv asking him where he went and what time he'll be home. Ironic huh.
Yea went counseling since 2015. Had 3 counsellors. Doesn't seem to help me much.
I feel like I have an issue with letting go and moving on, even when things seem like bad fit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Have your counselors worked with you about your past? Your childhood and why codependency works for you as a result?


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## tropicalbeachiwish

So, are you proceeding with the divorce? Have you moved out of the home or are you still living together?


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## disappointedwife

Turnera :No,i only went for a few counselling sessions. Couldn't seem to make progress because in order to help you, the counselors need to know what's your plan. Do you want to leave him, or stay and make it work.
That is my problem. I can't make a decision and stick to it. Some days i want to stay and make things right, some days I'm just horrified with myself by not getting the hell out immediately.
Today is one such day. That's why I'm revisiting this forum.i just dunno what to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## disappointedwife

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> So, are you proceeding with the divorce? Have you moved out of the home or are you still living together?


I'm still living tgt with him in our matrimonial home. Things seem fine on the surface.
Baby is due in Oct and I'm unemployed currently.i don't wish to start a divorce now.
But I don't know where this is heading. He's been trying his best to right things. But I really don't know.How is it possible to move on with a man like this?
Did I screw us up? Or is he just a monster?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KillerClown

disappointedwife said:


> I'm still living tgt with him in our matrimonial home. Things seem fine on the surface.
> Baby is due in Oct and I'm unemployed currently.i don't wish to start a divorce now.
> But I don't know where this is heading. He's been trying his best to right things. But I really don't know.How is it possible to move on with a man like this?
> Did I screw us up? Or is he just a monster?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You want thing in blank and white so here it is.

You married a man who acquiesces because you don't like people contradicting you. That is why you did not marry an alpha male. An Alpha make would have challenged your authority.

You resent him because he does not share your aggressiveness. (But if you wanted a dog why did you buy a hamster?)

I suspect he began stock trading to get back at you for all the disrespect and bullying inflicted over the years. _"I'll get stinking rich and show her I'm not stupid."_ Ditto for the other stuff.

This is a hell of your own making. The man you married was not a monster. You turned him into one. Clearly you did nothing to change your own attitude as many people suggested here.

Please re-read the entire thread. You got good advise. You just need to start listening.


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## turnera

disappointedwife said:


> Turnera :No,i only went for a few counselling sessions. Couldn't seem to make progress because in order to help you, the counselors need to know what's your plan.


That's not true. If you go to one and say 'I need to figure out why I do ABC,' that's what they'll help you with. You probably went in and said 'my marriage sucks, I don't know what to do about it,' so that's what they tried to help you with. 

Fix yourself first, and all the other stuff in your life will become much clearer.


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## disappointedwife

Killer clown:He was the furthest thing from a monster when I first knew him. When things collapsed he said he hates me for turning him into someone like this.
Possibly that's true. But i also find it very unfair to blame me for you cheating time and again.
If you are not happy, you should just call it quits with me.i told him that. He told me he wasn't unhappy. So why did he do all these? Was it just porn addiction? Counsellor said he has porn addiction.
I did reread the whole thread.
I think our union was a bad match right from the start.
Single hood is more suitable for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## disappointedwife

Tunera: Ok I should probably visit counselor again. I'm going in circles here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr Blunt

Disappointedwife, you gave us a lot more information about your husband than you did years ago. Here is a recap:
1	He visited prostitutes since 2013
2	He lied to you and ran up a stock market debt of $100,000
3	He stopped all trading and said he wants to be a good father and gave me full control of his bank accounts.

That is a lot of serious damage done to a marriage that we did not know in 2014 and 2015.

You revealed your situation:
1	While job searching in Jan 2016, I got pregnant.
2	I can't make a decision and stick to it.


You summary reprinted below is telling you your conclusion in this marriage



> Single hood is more suitable for me.
> The marriage probably ended long ago. I just didn't exit.
> At the end of the day, i can only depend on myself.


*You say the right things but your failure to act is one big problem that none of us can help with*



> *Reprint of Mr Blunt’s post in 2014*
> If you and your husband do not change you will be divorced or become more miserable than you are now every year.


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## aine

disappointedwife said:


> Been married for 4 years to an easy-going guy who seldom say no to people and totally dotes on me. He's supportive and encouraging to my interests and hobbies and mostly lets me make the decisions in our relationship. However recently we hit a rough patch. I think it is an accumulation of discontentment in me which has been brewing over the years.
> 
> I have no avenue to confide in my most inner thoughts about him because I'm not proud of what I am a going to say here. But I cannot help feeling the way I feel. I need to get it out because I am imploding and I hope I can find some support here.
> 
> Husband been working late the past few days, sometimes til 4am. I am not thrilled but I understand his company culture, so I didn't make things difficult for him by complaining. On saturday before we had our lunch the boss called about work. Despite telling him he was about to lunch, the boss continued to talk about work for a good 20 min. I was unhappy about this rudeness and told him so after the call (during the call i was motioning for him to stop it). He actually told me to shut up because the call was already over.
> 
> I was livid at being dismissed and it turned into a very public fight with me calling him a sucker minion and he telling me to shut up and that i was not understanding.
> 
> I know to many this is considered a trivial issue made big by us sillies, but it is not a small matter to me. The significance of his attitude towards the whole matter chills me. And this is the tip of the iceberg. These days i started thinking about what went wrong and i decide to pen them down so that I can see more clearly:
> 
> 1) 2 months into our marriage he committed voyeurism and was charged in court. The case dragged on for 3 years before he was let off with psychology sessions and marital counselling. I had wrote a letter to the judge pleading for him to be given a chance. No one else ever knew about this dark secret, only the two of us. It was a dark period for me because I had to go tru it very alone and very frightened of the outcome that he may be jailed and embarrassed in public. Before this incident I was never big on sex but i was ok with it. DUring these 3 years my drive went down and he felt rejected by me. I feel that now we can live life normally and put this incident behind us. We go on holidays and enjoy each other's company but truth is I've not had sex with him since May. I feel terrible about this but I don't know what to do. This incident is a scar on our marriage and much as we have moved on, I think of it everytime I feel upset with him. I can't help it but I feel sorry for myself each time.
> 
> 2)Everytime I bring up topics like retirement planning, starting family, buying a car (phenomenal sum in my country)...these conversations do not lead to any concrete action plans because he does not seem interested into going into details. His planning style and response to me always is :" Let's just try to up our salary as much as possible now so that we''ll have enough". I get very deflated when I hear that because planning to me is not with this type of mentality. I feel i've hit a wall and then i feel so alone that I have a team partner who is like this.
> 
> 3) Doesn't help that when I see my peers starting families, purchasing their cars and buying second/third properties. I know it is not healthy to be so competitive all the time, but I think it is not wrong to want to work towards that. Somehow I feel like he does not actively plan for such milestones but believes in just keeping his head down, work hard and earn more. I cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel. I feel like we go tru life day by day never having a good idea where we are heading. And this seriously kills me.
> 
> 4) We like spending time tgt, cuddling and hugging on the couch. But it usually lasts for 5 min and then we are back to being in our own world --- him surfing net, me either that or writing journal/reading. I don't expect us to yak for hours on end like best girlfriends, but I am starting to feel the relationship between us is superficial and intellectually we don't connect.
> 
> In general I find myself losing respect for him because I don't feel proud of him. I don't need a superstar husband but I need to feel you are not stupid. I know it's mean to call ur husband stupid and this says something about me. I feel bad about myself that I have to see him in this light. Definitely I'm no angel and there are all these flaws about me being stubborn, ill tempered and mean at times. But these are the thoughts i cannot help feeling about my husband.
> 
> Is this relationship headed for the rocks? I spent the whole morning googling divorce info and I keep asking myself is this really what i want?
> 
> Can someone there please talk to me about this? I can't tell anyone else i know bout this because I will be judged and I don't know how to live it down....


Many marriages end up failing or struggling because the spouses were not honest and transparent and then allowed years of unsaid things, resentment etc build up and that is where you are headed. You have to be honest with him and tell him how you feel, in a nice way of course. His response will tell you whether he wants to work on the specific things you mention or not, then you can make a decision whether to continue on or not. Tell him you feel very strongly about this and your marriage will not survive if you cannot both work on these matters.


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## KillerClown

disappointedwife said:


> Killer clown:He was the furthest thing from a monster when I first knew him. When things collapsed he said he hates me for turning him into someone like this.
> Possibly that's true. But i also find it very unfair to blame me for you cheating time and again.
> If you are not happy, you should just call it quits with me.i told him that. He told me he wasn't unhappy. So why did he do all these? Was it just porn addiction? Counsellor said he has porn addiction.
> I did reread the whole thread.
> I think our union was a bad match right from the start.
> Single hood is more suitable for me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You said:
With regards to sex, I find intercourse boring. I don't know what's the big deal for so much work. It is probably not right/responsible/wife material...blah blah...to say "selfish" things like this. But I can't help it. If it is boring to me, it is. the "try lighting candles..play music....foreplay" suggestions bore me even more.

Yet you are unwilling to admit that you share even a small portion of the blame for his sexual indiscretions. I'm not excusing his behavior but your complete lack of remorse for any of your actions is astounding.

Almost all response to this thread suggests that you work on yourself, not just for the sake of your marriage but because you have serious character issues. You say you have re-read the entire thread but conveniently ignored everything that requires you to look at yourself honestly.

If your husband was unhappy he should have called it quits? But you've been unhappy for years and yet here you are. (kettle/pot)

This is hell of your own making. Your need to own up to your own contribution to this mess.

Even after this marriage is over and done you will never find happiness in your life if you do not make positive changes to yourself.


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## disappointedwife

KillerClown said:


> You said:
> With regards to sex, I find intercourse boring. I don't know what's the big deal for so much work. It is probably not right/responsible/wife material...blah blah...to say "selfish" things like this. But I can't help it. If it is boring to me, it is. the "try lighting candles..play music....foreplay" suggestions bore me even more.
> 
> Yet you are unwilling to admit that you share even a small portion of the blame for his sexual indiscretions. I'm not excusing his behavior but your complete lack of remorse for any of your actions is astounding.
> 
> Almost all response to this thread suggests that you work on yourself, not just for the sake of your marriage but because you have serious character issues. You say you have re-read the entire thread but conveniently ignored everything that requires you to look at yourself honestly.
> 
> If your husband was unhappy he should have called it quits? But you've been unhappy for years and yet here you are. (kettle/pot)
> 
> This is hell of your own making. Your need to own up to your own contribution to this mess.
> 
> Even after this marriage is over and done you will never find happiness in your life if you do not make positive changes to yourself.


Has it occurred to you that after his voyeurism in 2010 and secret prostitution habits starting 2013, it's not unnatural for a girl to subconsciously feel that a guy is not really present in a relationship? So if she doesn't feel like jumping him as a result, that is a character flaw? So end of the day, the person who's not interested in sex (for whatever reasons) is the one who deserves to be cheated on? Thanks, very helpful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## straightshooter

DW,

You are doing the smart thing researching divorce. if you read a book called
"His needs, Her needs"
You will find men;s primary need in a relationship is SEX, and you are not providing it because you are not sexually attracted to him, and unless that changes, your relationship and happiness is not going to improve.

it also appears you have different long term goals.

I think sex therapy might help more than regular MC because if that is not resolved somehow your marriage is doomed anyway. Either you or he will cheat if that has not happened already, which i assume it has NOT.


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## Dyokemm

john117 said:


> My wife also considers me 'stupid' and 'lazy' but I have a PhD just like her, make a bit more than her, have a very stable job (unlike her), and work bank hours compared to her gulag hours.
> 
> My wife, because of her upbringing, thinks that we are all entitled to our immense house, expensive cars, etc. If she used that PhD of hers a little more she would have figured out how stupid it was in the grand scheme of things to spend it on bricks.
> 
> Wife can have all the financial goals in the world, but if the goals are established because in her culture that's how they do it (build Taj Mahal houses) then I suggest a bit of adjustment to the local reality and the real financial reality, not what one sees thru their colored sunglasses.
> 
> It seems to me that OP really is not interested in this marriage and is looking for ways out. Can't blame her, but can't go around blaming anyone else either. If she married him for love she knew what she was getting into. All of a sudden the dreams of multiple houses and cars are not materializing because of other things happening and it's just the husband's fault?
> 
> Some people only care to work 40 hours a week. I am like that. I get weekly requests for interviews in LinkedIn from all the famous places. I don't care. I love what I do, I love how many (or few) hours I get away with, and I love the people I work with (esp. the interns ). I'm not going to work 60 or 80 hour weeks to help my wife improve her standard of living. We have a top notch standard of living, golden spoons. Do we need to kill ourselves for platinum spoons?


Exactly.

I can't figure this mind set (obsessively chasing material things) out in other people.

You ain't taking any of it with you when you go to take the final 'dirt nap'.

And if all you do is spend inordinate amounts of time and energy pursuing that extra buck.....rather than actually getting out and LIVING life....what the h*ll do you really have when that final day inevitably comes.

I'm sure your heirs will love you to no end.....but all that's gonna be running through your mind in those final moments is all the experiences and moments in life you passed up on during the 'rat race'.

I'm a teacher.....make about 90k a year....plenty for a decent life with the material things I need, and enough left over to really enjoy my time off.

And with my job, that's half the calendar year.

You couldn't pay me enough to take a job of 80-100 hours a week and a couple weeks vacation.

My old roommate from the Naval Academy works as a corporate recruiter for ex Academy grads....I could call him up anytime and find a position that would offer a h*ll of a lot higher earning potential than my teaching position.

But one.....I love my job.

And two....I love having time off to actually enjoy my life.

My attitude on this was actually set after a family tragedy.

My great uncle (whose passed now) owned a motorcycle and Seadoo dealership in Victorville, CA for decades (my cousins still own/run it).

He was a multi-millionaire....several houses and lots of financial assets.....worked really hard, long hours all the time.

Figured he and my great aunt would retire early and spend the rest of their lives doing all those things they dreamt of doing....travel the world, etc.

My aunt had a massive stroke just a short time before he was going to retire.....she survived, but her health was NEVER the same.....needless to say, they never lived out those plans.

I will never forget what my uncle said to me in the hallway, tears streaming down his face, as we waited to know if she was going to make it.

He told me to NEVER let work or money be an excuse to pass by an opportunity to enjoy life today......because you never know how much time you have, and in the end no amount of dollars would ever replace those lost experiences and memories.

Now....I'm not saying you don't work hard enough in a career to have a decent and comfortable life.

That just goes without saying IMO.

But beyond a certain point, how much material sh*t do you really need?

Is chasing that extra wealth worth the life you will miss while doing it?

I hope that OP can figure this out someday.

She said she feels her H is stupid sometimes.....but IMO, it's the vain attempt to 'keep up with the joneses' and continuously accumulate unnecessary material goods you can't take with you when you die anyway that is sort of stupid.....life is too precious to waste on that crap.

The only resource more rare and valuable than money?.....TIME.

You ain't ever getting any more of that.....I will always earn more money.


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