# Wife's Irrational Moodiness



## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

My wife seems to have some issues with moodiness and anger.

Yesterday, she drove back from work and took our daughter to the doctor for a checkup. I had switched jobs, so they had our old insurance card. I was on my way back from work on the train. She called me that she did not have the insurance card so I said I would text a picture of it. I did, and she got the front, but she said she wanted the back also. The back took some time to get to her for some reason and she started getting frantic and called me again. I told her to be patient. She got it after a few minutes and was able to get it approved and finish the appointment. 

Later, she calls me and says that our son had an appointment for next Wednesday and she wanted me to take him. I told her that I already had plans to meet a friend for dinner for that day. That was her chance and she grabbed it with both hands. She said that she did all the work in the house, everything fell on her shoulders etc etc and not to worry.. SHE would take our son again.

Later when she got back, she was all aloof, grumpy and moody. Usually I would try to talk about it and normalize things, but I realize that I have only been feeding this bad behavior over the years. So I acted all normal as if nothing had happened. That probably got her angrier and she began to bait me into getting angry and saying something so that she could probably justify her own anger. I am sure she knows she's being ridiculous and looking for ways to get off her high horse and de-escalate. My daughter came by, so I called out to her and gave her a big hug and my wife snarkily comments that just calling out sweet names wasn't enough, one had to do the work also. She seems to be obsessed with "doing work". If you listened to her b|tch, you would feel that she is the one who brings in the income, does the cooking, does the laundry, does the child raising, does the lawn work, does everything and I am the house husband who does nothing. This is not the case at all and we both divide the work more or less equally. Then she called the kids and started to wolf down dinner without calling me. I got annoyed and asked her what that was about and she responded saying I usually finished dinner and would get up and leave (it is not correct that I do it always, I do it very rarely if I need to get to something).

She went to bed silently and carried over that attitude this morning as well. I pretended like everything was normal which is probably pissing her off even more. In the past, I have fallen for her bait and gotten mad and she's managed to turn the whole discussion into how I said something, rather than her own behavior which caused it. This time, I am calm and cool and she will have no chance to manipulate events. People usually behave this way in order to upset others and it is mentally taxing to keep up the attitude especially if it isn't working.

Let's see how long she keeps this up. I am talking to her normally like I always do and everything is from her side. This immature behavior needs to stop. Maybe it's her way to keep me walking on eggshells all the time. I just don't give an F anymore and I am being normal about it. The last time she did it, I also stopped talking to her and she successfully turned it into "its both our fault". She had her period 2 weeks ago so this is not official crazy time.

Life goes on.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Thanks Franklin. It could be a combination of issues as you say. At least I think so. With me, her main issue is "you need to spend more time with the kids". I spend time, but I will never satisfy her expectations because she was a SAHM and spent all day with them earlier and is now feeling guilty. Her usual thing is to ask my son who he played tennis with and he says something like "Steve and his dad" and the "his dad" thing is used against me to say that other dads play with their kids and I don't. She forgets that I don't do things just because Steve's dad or John's dad did. I do what I need to do. What she neglects to consider is that Steve's dad is a party guy and laidback in his career. He doesn't have much ambition and his wife has been working for 15 years so is financially in good shape. Besides, he works 1 mile from home, so is back at 5pm and can play. I work downtown so am 1 hour+ away. When had logic ever mattered though?

I just read a post here about the Rationalization Hamster. This seems to be the case here.


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## life_huppens (Jun 3, 2015)

O man. It reminds me of my situation. There is no wining it. It always my fault, and I do nothing right, and I do nothing for a family. Please keep us updated on how your new strategy working out.


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## ticktock33 (Jun 6, 2014)

You did the right thing! She is acting like a child so you should treat her as one.What does she do exactly? Does she have a job or is she a stay at home mom? Has she always been like this or did it start because of something else? Is it possible that she is resentful towards you for any reason from the past....people and especially women can hold some serious grudges.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

ticktock33 said:


> You did the right thing! She is acting like a child so you should treat her as one.What does she do exactly? Does she have a job or is she a stay at home mom? Has she always been like this or did it start because of something else? Is it possible that she is resentful towards you for any reason from the past....people and especially women can hold some serious grudges.


Nirvana you passed the sh!t test.:grin2:
But I hope things smooth over because she'll make you crazy.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Your wife doesn't seem to be thinking things through in a logical manner. I had this almost exact situation happen to me but when my H told me he couldn't help out because of a schedule conflict, I just gave him the doctor's number and asked him to schedule a date and time when he was available to take our son to the appointment. Problem solved with no argument. 

She sounds very resentful. Have you asked her why she's upset?


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

If she has issues with you she should talk in an honest and mature way. Her way is childish and passive-aggressive.
On the other hand, your way doesn't seem good. Have you tried to talk to her in an honest and mature way? Have each of you worked on some empathy towards each other? It sounds like you both are dismissive to each other and instead of being more honest and direct, there are games.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The drawbacks to this type conflict are:
- They reinforce the theme of marriage as a power struggle
- The 'rules' of engagement are set unilaterally by each person. For example, your wife may choose to escalate by speaking to you in a way you don't like - in front of the children. While this is dirty fighting, she may simply see it as a good means to 'winning' this conflict by ensuring you are miserable. 
- If this lasts a few days, it is emotionally draining




QUOTE=nirvana;13264938]My wife seems to have some issues with moodiness and anger.

Yesterday, she drove back from work and took our daughter to the doctor for a checkup. I had switched jobs, so they had our old insurance card. I was on my way back from work on the train. She called me that she did not have the insurance card so I said I would text a picture of it. I did, and she got the front, but she said she wanted the back also. The back took some time to get to her for some reason and she started getting frantic and called me again. I told her to be patient. She got it after a few minutes and was able to get it approved and finish the appointment. 

Later, she calls me and says that our son had an appointment for next Wednesday and she wanted me to take him. I told her that I already had plans to meet a friend for dinner for that day. That was her chance and she grabbed it with both hands. She said that she did all the work in the house, everything fell on her shoulders etc etc and not to worry.. SHE would take our son again.

Later when she got back, she was all aloof, grumpy and moody. Usually I would try to talk about it and normalize things, but I realize that I have only been feeding this bad behavior over the years. So I acted all normal as if nothing had happened. That probably got her angrier and she began to bait me into getting angry and saying something so that she could probably justify her own anger. I am sure she knows she's being ridiculous and looking for ways to get off her high horse and de-escalate. My daughter came by, so I called out to her and gave her a big hug and my wife snarkily comments that just calling out sweet names wasn't enough, one had to do the work also. She seems to be obsessed with "doing work". If you listened to her b|tch, you would feel that she is the one who brings in the income, does the cooking, does the laundry, does the child raising, does the lawn work, does everything and I am the house husband who does nothing. This is not the case at all and we both divide the work more or less equally. Then she called the kids and started to wolf down dinner without calling me. I got annoyed and asked her what that was about and she responded saying I usually finished dinner and would get up and leave (it is not correct that I do it always, I do it very rarely if I need to get to something).

She went to bed silently and carried over that attitude this morning as well. I pretended like everything was normal which is probably pissing her off even more. In the past, I have fallen for her bait and gotten mad and she's managed to turn the whole discussion into how I said something, rather than her own behavior which caused it. This time, I am calm and cool and she will have no chance to manipulate events. People usually behave this way in order to upset others and it is mentally taxing to keep up the attitude especially if it isn't working.

Let's see how long she keeps this up. I am talking to her normally like I always do and everything is from her side. This immature behavior needs to stop. Maybe it's her way to keep me walking on eggshells all the time. I just don't give an F anymore and I am being normal about it. The last time she did it, I also stopped talking to her and she successfully turned it into "its both our fault". She had her period 2 weeks ago so this is not official crazy time.

Life goes on. [/QUOTE]


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

That's called 'the 180'. Are you going to continue to come here and ***** about every little thing that is wrong with your wife or are you going to address it with her? You complain and nothing is ever resolved. Fix it or accept it.


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## ticktock33 (Jun 6, 2014)

It seems like there's no reasoning with her, no fixing because she doesn't respond.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

EnjoliWoman said:


> You complain and nothing is ever resolved. Fix it or accept it.


Games. It's all games. She's playing them, you're playing them. "Who can hold out the longest??" *Not healthy for a marriage at all.*

Marriage counseling is in order. Or file for divorce.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

ticktock33 said:


> You did the right thing! She is acting like a child so you should treat her as one.What does she do exactly? Does she have a job or is she a stay at home mom? Has she always been like this or did it start because of something else? Is it possible that she is resentful towards you for any reason from the past....people and especially women can hold some serious grudges.


Yes, she has a job, been working for a year after 10+ years of school + raising children. She's been this way after our kids were born but it's escalated a bit in the last year. She think she can do everything, then gets tired/frustrated and then blames me for not helping. I didn't ask her to sign up for a million things. I am busy myself and i don't want to fall sick trying to carry out the things that she wants.

Yeah, she is resentful, but then I think all wives are over some reason or the other. All my friends have similar issues.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Nirvana you passed the sh!t test.:grin2:
> But I hope things smooth over because she'll make you crazy.


Yes, I didn't know what $hit tests were until recently. I was pretty naive I must say.I am sure at this point, she's not even sure what she is angry about, but has to keep up the show. I think it's just a way to manipulate/control me by making me feel like I am walking on eggshells. Honestly, I don';t know what it is she is so upset about that warrants this. But I am not going to ask, let her tell me and I will stay calm because she is trying to get me to blow up on her so she can prove what an a=hole I am (and how goody goody she is). The oldest trick in the book.

I am not going to extend this as I am already behaving like I see nothing amiss. Soon, she will have to de-escalate herself and I will not do anything from my side because I will only enable it.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> That's called 'the 180'. Are you going to continue to come here and ***** about every little thing that is wrong with your wife or are you going to address it with her? You complain and nothing is ever resolved. Fix it or accept it.


What is "180"? I have seen that quite a bit here.
I was not really complaining because I have this under control. At least it's not affecting me, but I just wanted to relate it. Of course, I am not enjoying this either, but I cannot control her behavior. I don't think I can "fix" her, she has to fix herself. I can control myself and not fall in the trap she is laying for me. 

To the other poster, no, I am not divorcing her over this.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> Games. It's all games. She's playing them, you're playing them. "Who can hold out the longest??" *Not healthy for a marriage at all.*
> 
> Marriage counseling is in order. Or file for divorce.


I think everyone plays games. But I am not holding out this time. As far as I am concerned, everything is normal. It's all up to her. She can keep up her behavior, or become normal again. If she is normal, I am already normal.
I am not encouraging her by noticing this time. Or reacting adversely like I usually do. I am not even asking her what the matter is, because as far as I am concerned, nothing is the matter.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Nirvana you have been around have you read MMSLP and NMMNG lately?
Every now and then I go back to them as a refresher course so to speak.
Anyway
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> The drawbacks to this type conflict are:
> - They reinforce the theme of marriage as a power struggle
> - The 'rules' of engagement are set unilaterally by each person. For example, your wife may choose to escalate by speaking to you in a way you don't like - in front of the children. While this is dirty fighting, she may simply see it as a good means to 'winning' this conflict by ensuring you are miserable.
> - If this lasts a few days, it is emotionally draining



Yes, I agree. Like I have said in another thread,I know why she is doing so. Her family has displayed this behavior among themselves, so this is what she knows. All she has to do is talk to me and request me and cajole me. I am not a monster, I can be made to do what she wants, but she has to be nice to me and not hurt my male ego. Getting pi$$y will not get her anything.

This time I am not miserable. I am normal, as I said. I talk to her, with the kids, go out, do stuff in the house etc. That is the difference in how I am dealing with it this time.

BTW, I have already moved the date I am meeting my friends, so I can take my son. But I am not telling her yet.


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## giddiot (Jun 28, 2015)

nirvana said:


> I think everyone plays games. But I am not holding out this time. As far as I am concerned, everything is normal. It's all up to her. She can keep up her behavior, or become normal again. If she is normal, I am already normal.
> I am not encouraging her by noticing this time. Or reacting adversely like I usually do. I am not even asking her what the matter is, because as far as I am concerned, nothing is the matter.


Your doing the right thing, my wife has done this for 35 years, the most effective way to deal with it is completely ignore it like it didn't happen. It takes a day or so but they figure out the tactic is not working and quit. 

They expect you to bow down and apologize but when they get nothing they are confused. Its a variation of the silent treatment. My wife could cause a fight then go silent for a week while I used to sweat it out. Not anymore

I wonder where they learn to do this..


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Franklin1969 said:


> So she is talking to you but in a cold way?


Yes, and just as much as needed. The last time was before I left to work this morning. Let's see if she can keep it up in the evening when we get home.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

giddiot said:


> Your doing the right thing, my wife has done this for 35 years, the most effective way to deal with it is completely ignore it like it didn't happen. It takes a day or so but they figure out the tactic is not working and quit.
> 
> They expect you to bow down and apologize but when they get nothing they are confused. Its a variation of the silent treatment. My wife could cause a fight then go silent for a week while I used to sweat it out. Not anymore
> 
> I wonder where they learn to do this..


Maybe this is a trait more prevalent in women. This silent treatment thing. Men tend to shout obscenities and make get physical and women avoid this as much as possible from what I have seen.

I think it is better this way where I don't acknowledge her poor attitude so that keeps me in a better frame of mind, and she can climb down from it without any ego-hit when she feels like. It's not fun being angry when the person you are angry at does not acknowledge it or care. Earlier, I used to ask her "what's wrong?" and she would say "nothing" and continue acting weird. This time and in the future, I take a fully defensive position where I don't do anything against her but I don't take what she is dishing out either.

I was not complaining, just sharing.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Nirvana you have been around have you read MMSLP and NMMNG lately?
> Every now and then I go back to them as a refresher course so to speak.
> Anyway
> https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


I have read NMMNG but not MMSLP. It's interesting a lot of things are so true. 
A wife can use a feeling of victimhood and make guilt to get what she wants.


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## giddiot (Jun 28, 2015)

Franklin1969 said:


> Well dude she may be pouting but I don't believe this is stonewalling. It's not productive but at least she is talking. My wife on the other hand can go days or weeks without talking.


I have used it to my advantage before. I have ticked her off to get some peace in a stressful situation. She goes silent and I am in a better frame of mind.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Franklin1969 said:


> Well dude she may be pouting but I don't believe this is stonewalling. It's not productive but at least she is talking. My wife on the other hand can go days or weeks without talking.


Well, if I waited for her to talk first, then she would not and that would result in an impasse where we don't talk for days, and then she gets grumpy and takes the kids out to the library or bookstore "to hear some people talk". Whatever.
This time I'm not letting her get the satisfaction of her behavior affecting me. >


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## Tobin (Jun 24, 2015)

Franklin1969 said:


> My wife on the other hand can go days or weeks without talking.


That's really bad.


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

The thing that strikes me about your posts is that you are assigning malevolent intentions and negative motivations to everything she does. There is no empathy whatsoever. It sounds like she is tormented by guilt that she can't continue to be a SAHM. She is probably very stressed and feeling pulled in 100 directions, wanting to do well at work, be supermom, get the kids where they need to go, take care of the house, support extended family, stay in shape, etc etc. There are a lot of external pressures on modern moms, and it can be a lot to deal with. She may benefit from therapy, and I think you would too. Individual counseling, I mean, maybe followed by marriage counseling.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

You both have seriously crappy communication issues. Take the fact that she didn't even know about your plans to meet with a friend. The fact that you'd rather punish her than tell her you've changed those plans, just to keep the negative crap between you going. The fact that you brush off anything she says as moodiness. Sounds to me like she doesn't think you spend enough time with the kids, but instead of actively thinking about how this area could be improved, you give excuses why it's not a reasonable expectation. I bet she has a valid concern. Maybe she doesn't express it well enough, but maybe she's sick of talking to a brick wall.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I can see big problems on both sides here.

I have to say too that if I asked my husband to take our daughter to an appointment the following week and he said no because he's going out with a friend, I'd be mighty p!ssed. I realise you changed the dinner, but still. You should have just said yes you'd take him and changed the dinner.

Both of you need to change the way you communicate or you'll end up hating each other.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

I got back from home and as I had thought, she was back to her normal self, using her pet-name for me (she uses it when she is filled with love, or feels neutral). None of the anger/attitude of the previous day. I was always in the normal mode this time so there was no "making up". We even went to an animated movie in the evening on her request. I wasn't up to going on a Friday evening because I was tired, but she persisted in the right way, so I acceded. If she had displayed bad attitude, I would not. People need to learn to be nice to other people especially their loved ones and family. Why is that too much to expect? Men don't appreciate their wives/girlfriends ordering them around like slaves. This is no different from women not liking their husbands treating them like doormats.

She was probably putting me through a $hit test and this time I did not take the bait and tried a new way of dealing with it. From my side, the experiment was successful with no escalation. There will be more $hit tests of the same nature, and I have to respond in the same way and in time she might realize that this no longer works. It will need patience and perseverance on my part/


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

dignityhonorpride said:


> The thing that strikes me about your posts is that you are assigning malevolent intentions and negative motivations to everything she does. There is no empathy whatsoever. It sounds like she is tormented by guilt that she can't continue to be a SAHM. She is probably very stressed and feeling pulled in 100 directions, wanting to do well at work, be supermom, get the kids where they need to go, take care of the house, support extended family, stay in shape, etc etc. There are a lot of external pressures on modern moms, and it can be a lot to deal with. She may benefit from therapy, and I think you would too. Individual counseling, I mean, maybe followed by marriage counseling.


I think that's putting it to the extreme, but there is empathy from my side but she pushes me aside. When she is tired/stressed, I tell her to rest for a few hours and watch some TV or read a book or something. She refuses and says she is active and not lazy and "I cannot sit still without doing anything" etc. So what do I do, I let her do as she pleases which is take up unnecessary work which can be done later or not done at all. Then she gets mad at me that I am resting and she isn't. This is not logical because she has full access to rest/relaxation but she is condescending towards it. 

The problem is she was a 100% SAHM and now is working a FT job also. Her job is busy, I get it. But she is not willing to make changes to her SAHMness or be smart in what she does on that front. You cannot do 2 jobs and do it to the same level as when you had 1 job.

I don't say anything anymore because I don't like her hinting that I am lazy when I am anything but. She is the type who will not take free advice so it is best to let life teach her. I have done that in the past and she's come back and told me what I had told her for free months earlier.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

breeze said:


> You both have seriously crappy communication issues. Take the fact that she didn't even know about your plans to meet with a friend. The fact that you'd rather punish her than tell her you've changed those plans, just to keep the negative crap between you going. The fact that you brush off anything she says as moodiness. Sounds to me like she doesn't think you spend enough time with the kids, but instead of actively thinking about how this area could be improved, you give excuses why it's not a reasonable expectation. I bet she has a valid concern. Maybe she doesn't express it well enough, but maybe she's sick of talking to a brick wall.


There is no punishing, where did you get that?
I had made plans with my friend for Wed. She had scheduled the doc appt on Wed too, even before I made plans with my friend. I did not know the date so no one was being malicious. It was by coincidence. She takes both kids to the doc so this never was an issue. This time she wanted me to take our son. 

All I am expecting is that she ask me nicely and persist in a respectful way, not get angry/b|tchy about it after one try. Changing the meeting with my friend was inconvenient, not impossible. I am her husband, not some employee.

We all have expectations of our spouses. They need to be met both ways, not just one.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Well, let's see this from your wife's POV.

She is the one, who gets the fun job of taking 2 kids to the doctor. She will be waiting per child 1.5 to 2 hrs with child.

You poor thing get to go have dinner with your friend. Because you had plans that could not be broken.

Let's see which one of those, I would choose to do.

Maybe, you should have taken your wife to dinner. Maybe, you should starting asking what was wrong. 

You guys need to start speaking to each other, so that, you can understand what each other is saying. When your wife gives you an answer you don't understand, ask for clarification.

Don't go the whole "women, I just don't understand them". Thats just a cop out mentality.

Take your wife to dinner. Show her some love and attention. When she ask you to take the kids to the doc. do it.


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## ticktock33 (Jun 6, 2014)

nirvana said:


> Yes, she has a job, been working for a year after 10+ years of school + raising children. She's been this way after our kids were born but it's escalated a bit in the last year. She think she can do everything, then gets tired/frustrated and then blames me for not helping. I didn't ask her to sign up for a million things. I am busy myself and i don't want to fall sick trying to carry out the things that she wants.
> 
> Yeah, she is resentful, but then I think all wives are over some reason or the other. All my friends have similar issues.


It sounds like she is just exhausted and so do you! Is it possible for you and her to just take some time for a weekend, leave the kids with their grandparents? Stress can make you snippy. I hope things improve for you all!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

No, she isn't doing the 180 because she engages in the mutual petty bickering. 



> There is no punishing, where did you get that?


Right here.



> BTW, I have already moved the date I am meeting my friends, so I can take my son. *But I am not telling her yet. *


....and you promptly lose the high road. 


So, instead of thinking you passed a sh*^ test, I am wondering if, over the 10+ years, this is how you have taught each other how to communicate in your marriage. Also, I wonder if you both share blame equally for feeding into these passive aggressive behaviors. 




> This immature behavior needs to stop.


I hope you see the irony in asking someone to be respectful, be nice and act mature while doing something equally as petty.


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## Froggi (Sep 10, 2014)

You are petty. Stop.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

brooklynAnn said:


> Well, let's see this from your wife's POV.
> 
> She is the one, who gets the fun job of taking 2 kids to the doctor. She will be waiting per child 1.5 to 2 hrs with child.
> 
> ...





Yes, it's a fun job for her. She loves spending time with the kids. Just like I love fixing things around the house, doing the lawn, fixing both cars etc etc.

She goes out with her friends and I don't complain. I encourage it. She just went running with her friends for 2 hours. And I massaged her legs for her, how is that for some love? So I have no guilt if I want to go out with my friends. 

You are missing the point. If she wants me to do something, she should ask nicely. Not be a %#$# about it. If she is sweet to her boss and her coworkers, why not with her husband?


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

ticktock33 said:


> It sounds like she is just exhausted and so do you! Is it possible for you and her to just take some time for a weekend, leave the kids with their grandparents? Stress can make you snippy. I hope things improve for you all!


Grandparents don't live in the country. No relatives around. Besides, my wife does not life leaving the kids at friends places for too long.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

nirvana said:


> There is no punishing, where did you get that?
> I had made plans with my friend for Wed. She had scheduled the doc appt on Wed too, even before I made plans with my friend. I did not know the date so no one was being malicious. It was by coincidence. She takes both kids to the doc so this never was an issue. This time she wanted me to take our son.
> 
> All I am expecting is that she ask me nicely and persist in a respectful way, not get angry/b|tchy about it after one try. Changing the meeting with my friend was inconvenient, not impossible. I am her husband, not some employee.
> ...


This shows me you have difficulty in hearing/reading something without altering the meaning in a way that lets you not make any effort to analyse your own part in your problems.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Yep, your wife should act like an employee st home.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Career woman here & 35 years married (1st marriage for the both of us). You have a power struggle in your marriage. She plays the martyr and you play the victim. She asked you to take your child to the doctor and you don't tell her right away that you will change your plans to facilitate her request. Instead, you play psychological games. This is the way you demonstrate your resentment.

You definitely need to communicate better and not bat each other because of your resentments. This will eventually poison your marriage. You have children which makes your situation much more complicated. You need to facilitate each other's requests without games such as 180 or other means to punish each other. In order to get love, you must show love. I recommend for you to see a marriage counselor for the purpose of helping in your communications skills. You need peace in your household, especially for your children.


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## Spitfire (Jun 6, 2015)

When your wife calls and is obviously stressed out asking you to take your son to the dr next week you simply say "No problem, I can do that." Then you change your plans to meet your friend. Now you wonder why she gets all dramatic with you over this. Because it works! You changed your plans and are going to the dr appointment. Why not just do that right away and come away looking like a team player willing to help out. When she's tired and has things to do around the house get up and help until things are done. Don't suggest resting when you know she won't. I could just see you saying something like " you know if you hadn't volunteered to bake cookies for the kids class tomorrow you'd have more time to do laundry right now". lol


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm sympathetic with her, I have to say. From what you write, you sound smug and not particularly empathetic. I know what it's like to have a full-time job and children to raise. You think she's being irrational, but I can relate to her and I don't think I was irrational at all. What I was was exhausted and tired of having to beg my H to partner me. He was passive aggressive and resentful, too. He acted entitled and nickeled and dimed me emotionally, as well.

When our kids were in HS, however, he had some sort of epiphany. He told me that he was really seeing all that I was doing and taking responsibility for. He actually started to act with empathy and love. Maybe you can get there, too, but not with the attitude you have now. You act like this is a game, but she is deadly serious about the stress in her life.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

nirvana said:


> You are missing the point. If she wants me to do something, she should ask nicely. Not be a %#$# about it. If she is sweet to her boss and her coworkers, why not with her husband?


When she asks you to do something in a *****y way then you call her out on it EVERY SINGLE TIME. You don't act passive aggressive or play mind games.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

nirvana said:


> Maybe this is a trait more prevalent in women. This silent treatment thing. Men tend to shout obscenities and make get physical and women avoid this as much as possible from what I have seen.
> 
> I think it is better this way where I don't acknowledge her poor attitude so that keeps me in a better frame of mind, and she can climb down from it without any ego-hit when she feels like. It's not fun being angry when the person you are angry at does not acknowledge it or care. Earlier, I used to ask her "what's wrong?" and she would say "nothing" and continue acting weird. This time and in the future, I take a fully defensive position where I don't do anything against her but I don't take what she is dishing out either.
> 
> I was not complaining, just sharing.


 It's a fair strategy, but I suggest you include one more step. At some point, add "if you want to talk about it, I'm here" and walk away.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

nirvana said:


> There is no punishing, where did you get that?
> I had made plans with my friend for Wed. She had scheduled the doc appt on Wed too, even before I made plans with my friend. I did not know the date so no one was being malicious. It was by coincidence. She takes both kids to the doc so this never was an issue. This time she wanted me to take our son.
> 
> All I am expecting is that she ask me nicely and persist in a respectful way, not get angry/b|tchy about it after one try. Changing the meeting with my friend was inconvenient, not impossible. I am her husband, not some employee.
> ...


Yes but you said you had changed plans, but you weren't going to tell your wife. The only reason you would do that is to gain the upper hand.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> It's a fair strategy, but I suggest you include one more step. At some point, add "if you want to talk about it, I'm here" and walk away.


Agree!


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Yes but you said you had changed plans, but you weren't going to tell your wife. The only reason you would do that is to gain the upper hand.


Probably. She needs to understand that she cannot run roughshod over everything. She needs to learn to be nice to me.
She can actually have me do 99% of the things she wants, she just has to ask the right way and be respectful.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> When she asks you to do something in a *****y way then you call her out on it EVERY SINGLE TIME. You don't act passive aggressive or play mind games.


I don't understand what you are referring to here...

Overall, I am trying to change myself instead of trying to changing her. If I think she isn't being fair to me, I don't let her do it. But the big difference now is I don't copy her behavior and sulk/pout/give silent treatment. I stay normal and be happy/jovial/peppy as if nothing happened. So that way I am in good spirits and she can easily climbdown when she wants to without having any ego issues about it. And the kids don't suffer either.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

She is seeing a difference in my response to her, and this is getting her annoyed, from what I can tell. She bangs kitchenware a bit more, sighs often etc. I just don't respond because she is looking for me to say something. Yesterday she wanted me to get sugar and i had ordered a pizza for the night. She said she would come too and I said sure. Then she asked me if she wanted me to come. I said anything you want. Then she said "maybe you should take a decision for once and not make me do everything". 
ha ha ha! what logic. If I make decisions, I am controlling. If I let her, then she is angry that she has to decide every time. There is no making this person happy. Rationalization Hamster alert!!
On my part, I suffered a lapse as well and I got pissed at her and that was what she was waiting for. I should have kept calm. I am learning and training myself, so results will not be instant. 
Then I got back with the pizza and sugar and she was grumpy the rest of the evening. Then this morning, but I made coffee for her and talked to her as usual. All normal from my side. She did a 4k run and was praising herself about all her runs. I didn't say a word. She loves to praise herself, like everyone else on her side of the family. Then she suggested that I should run too. I had been neglecting it for 3 weeks so I said okay and did 2.7k. When I came back she began to act up again, asking if I was tired (in a sarcastic tone). She has this "I am better than you" thing going on for self-esteem boosting reasons. I said a little bit. Then she said she wished she had a "great" life like mine where I relaxed all the time and she did all the work. Talk about self-delusion.

I didn't say a word because she is spoiling for a fight. The hamster in her brain is looking for a reason to justify her behavior. I am not giving it to her, hence she is raising the bar.

There is a saying in India, you need 2 hands to clap. I cannot pander to her because if I do, she will behave worse. If she wants happiness in the house, she has to do her part. From my side, I will stay away and not get baited into saying something nasty. I am a work in progress of course, but I have made progress. Beyond that, whatever will happen will happen. It's not that she has a welcoming world out there for her. As another Indian saying goes "you go outside, get slapped a few times by the big bad world, you then realize how good you had it". She needs to see this for herself.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> It's a fair strategy, but I suggest you include one more step. At some point, add "if you want to talk about it, I'm here" and walk away.


The problem I see with saying this is that I will end up acknowledging that there is a problem and the "it" exists. As far as I am concerned, there is no problem unless she vocalizes it like an adult. I am always up for talking about anything anytime. I no longer have the patience to tolerate silent Passive-aggressive behavior. If I say this, then she think "ah! It's bugging him!" and she will continue.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Personal said:


> You're missing the point!
> 
> How many times on this forum do you have to be told by many that you are behaving like a self entitled jerk? The sad thing is you are constantly doing what you claim your wife is doing as well.
> 
> ...


You are asking me to basically do what she says to keep her happy even when she is being nasty about it. This seems to to be the uber feminist position. 

I agree we are being childish here, but I cannot control her behavior, but I can control mine so I am doing what I can do - just ignore the taunts and jabs and just be normal.

I've just started this, so there is no way of thinking it worked or not. I used to get very angry and respond in a bad way, so that is obviously a failure. And I gave her justification in her mind that it is okay for her to behave like she does though she might have done it first. I was not blameless myself earlier is what I am saying.

Whether I moved my meeting with my friend is not the point. Why are you fixating on that? The point is if she wants me to do something, she needs to be nice. She is nice to her boss and her coworkers, why is she a [email protected]#$%h with me? Just because I cannot/won't fire (divorce) her? Divorce is not a thing Indian people do or take lightly which is probably why she feels so bold.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

An interesting phenomenon I have noticed in my time here.

If a man complains about his wife, many ladies here go "You obviously did something to her to make her react like this. Figure out what YOU did and correct it".
If a woman complains about her husband then the ladies go "Oh you poor dear. Divorce the pig right away!".

Men do not band together in a brotherhood like the women do. Some men like to blame other men apparently to curry favor with the women and come across as a modern feminist forward-thinking man. 
Almost all women band together in a sisterhood and take on the man even when he is doing the right thing. 

Proof in my mind that the world in the future will be ruled by women. Not because women are stronger, but because men just rolled over and let women walk all over them.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

nirvana said:


> ...Yesterday she wanted me to get sugar and i had ordered a pizza for the night. She said she would come too and I said sure. Then she asked me if she wanted me to come. I said anything you want. Then she said "maybe you should take a decision for once and not make me do everything".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am a woman. I'm not saying your wife is right, because she needs to work on her communication. She seems to have a HUGE resentment toward you that involves work around the house. 

Why? You say that you do a lot. She says you don't. You guys need to sit down and write a list of what you each THINK you do around the house and with the kids (and write when you think the last time you did it was). Show it to each other. Discuss. 

What I'm picking up here in this particular instance is that she wants you to be a decision maker - even if it's just something small. If you wanted to go, you should have said...okay I am going to pick up a pizza - I will get it on my way. She said she would come too, you should have just said okay, awesome. I'm not sure why she asked you if you wanted to come...unless you didn't give her a definitive answer the first time. Did you mean she asked you if you wanted HER to come? Sorry I am a little confused when you said, " Then she asked me if she wanted me to come."

Answers like "anything you want" can come off as, " I don't really care if you're with me or not". She seems to only understand straight forward answers. Do that from now on if you can. Yes. No. If she asks what you want for dinner, tell her something specific. If she argues it...tell her to make a decision - etc.

Now, on to the 4k. Let me first just say that if I ran a 4k...I would be praising myself too. It's okay for people to praise themselves a little bit. Maybe she was even looking for you to notice as well. Her fishing like that, makes me wonder if she feels like you don't notice her hard work. She works, she takes care of the house, she takes care of the kids, She cooks, cleans, etc....AND she is keeping her health up. She IS doing a lot. It sounds like she just wants someone to notice that.

So, with you not saying anything she moves on to try and get something, anything out of you by asking you if you're tired. Now, before I go any further...my H is the runner in our relationship. He has to be for his job. So, when we go to the track and run together...he overlaps me twice, sometimes 3 times lol. It's embarrassing. He makes fun of me. I'm halfway dying and he's still got enough air in his lungs to laugh. The nerve! But it's okay. I don't care because I KNOW he's better than I am in that particular case. He can prove it all day long ha! It does not bother me. I laugh with him (when I catch my breath).

You think she has a self delusion about your life being relaxed. Prove to her that you do just as much as she does. If you don't do just as much...that's still okay. There are certain aspects that are simply on her to change. For example, housework. If she is trying to keep the house completely spotless, nothing out of place, clean...then that's on her. She can change that. The problem is she was a SAHM for 10 years. That's kind of like you being a professional basketball player for 10 years and then going in to be a Ballerina instructor after that long. She is only ONE year into her her new job. Her adjustment on that is going to take some time. 

In the mean time when she is acting out at you, call her out immediately. Tell her if she has a problem with what you're doing (or not doing) she needs to say it outright. Let her know that from now on if she doesn't at least respectfully ask you do help her, you will not be doing it.

I'm not talking about quitting all household responsibilities either. The house does need to be cleaned, laundry done, kids needs to go to their appointments....

And let me just say, if my H chose to go to a dinner over taking our kid to the Dr. I would have been p*ssed, too. If he had a dinner scheduled, he would changed it without me even knowing because the kid going to the Dr. is more important and it's higher on the priority list. He wouldn't play a game with me by first telling me he had a dinner and couldn't take the kid...then changing the dinner and not telling me. That's immature. You shouldn't have done that. 

Other than that, I think you guys need to learn to talk to each other. If you can't talk to each other and see the problem...write it down so that it's physically right in front of you and you can discuss each issue one by one. Remember to make a list of what you think you do (and the last time you did it) that way each of you can see how you see things.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

nirvana said:


> An interesting phenomenon I have noticed in my time here.
> 
> If a man complains about his wife, many ladies here go "You obviously did something to her to make her react like this. Figure out what YOU did and correct it".
> If a woman complains about her husband then the ladies go "Oh you poor dear. Divorce the pig right away!".
> ...


Here is goes. 

In my post, I am talking about what you both need to do as a couple. I am not "banding" together with anyone. 

In your case, it was obvious why your W was p*ssed off at you. I would have been mad too. That's why I said what I did. My personal opinion was that you were wrong. You were passive aggressive, immature, and playing games. All of which do not help your marriage and if you do them often...is probably part of the reason why your wife is annoyed with you a lot of the time. 

That's not to say she doesn't have issues either. She doesn't seem to be able to be direct in what she wants and needs. But she isn't here for us to discuss that is she? So, we can only tell you stuff from what we hear from you. I bet if she came here, her version would be completely different from yours. 


In my opinion....you're both wrong. You both do not know how to talk to each other, and there is resentment on both parts that may or may not be able to get solved. I think you need marriage counseling.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

nirvana said:


> The problem I see with saying this is that I will end up acknowledging that there is a problem and the "it" exists. As far as I am concerned, there is no problem unless she vocalizes it like an adult. I am always up for talking about anything anytime. I no longer have the patience to tolerate silent Passive-aggressive behavior. If I say this, then she think "ah! It's bugging him!" and she will continue.


You can find a different way to phrase it. Like 'you seem to be bothered about something, but since you're not verbalizing it, I can't see it. If there's something you want to say, let me know.'

That will help her see that if she talks like an adult, you'll listen. And also that you're no longer playing the game.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

nirvana said:


> Whether I moved my meeting with my friend is not the point. Why are you fixating on that? The point is if she wants me to do something, *she needs to be nice*.


None of this will work unless you say this - out loud. Otherwise, she just thinks you've turned into a big fat jerk because she has no idea why you're suddenly turning into someone she doesn't know.

Have you?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

staarz21 said:


> I am a woman. I'm not saying your wife is right, because she needs to work on her communication. She seems to have a HUGE resentment toward you that involves work around the house.
> 
> Why? You say that you do a lot. She says you don't. You guys need to sit down and write a list of what you each THINK you do around the house and with the kids (and write when you think the last time you did it was). Show it to each other. Discuss.
> 
> ...


This is the gist of your problem. Neither of you is directly communicating, you're both busy nursing - and milking - your resentments, and you're both trying to get what YOU want, _without really talking about it._

And you two REALLY need to have a talk about household responsibilities. I recommend getting a poster board and two markers. Write out ALL the things that have to be taken care of, including childcare, doctors, etc. Then you each take turns 'signing up' for things you want to be responsible for. Do it all the way down the list, until everything is fairly portioned out. That way, she feels heard, you're both being fair, and it should relieve the tension she feels from suddenly having to move from a SAHM to essentially doing TWO jobs. Trust me, it's incredibly stressful for a woman because her home is her source of pride, especially for Indian women. She's in a downward spiral trying to keep up what she used to do and still work full time.

I'm really glad you've moved over to the 'not gonna take it any more' side, BUT, there needs to be an attempt to understand WHY she's doing what she's doing, or else you'll just stay in your own corners and nothing will be resolved. 

IMO, she needs to hear you love her, respect her, admire her, and don't take her for granted. In REAL words, with REAL feelings, not just 'love you, honey,' which anyone can say.

If you can combine that WITH your changes, you may have a chance.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

nirvana said:


> An interesting phenomenon I have noticed in my time here.
> 
> If a man complains about his wife, many ladies here go "You obviously did something to her to make her react like this. Figure out what YOU did and correct it".
> If a woman complains about her husband then the ladies go "Oh you poor dear. Divorce the pig right away!".
> ...


Lol, you just haven't been particularly observant.

However, in this case, it's more about some people noticing things about what you're saying that don't sit well. You can try and make out that it must be some sort of sisterhood phenomenon and therefore, justify in your mind ignoring anything posted here that you don't like, but really the only person affected by that is you. Continue making those sort of choices in your life and you never experience the understanding about how your actions are perceived by others and how that changes you in ways nothing else ever does.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

nirvana said:


> An interesting phenomenon I have noticed in my time here.
> 
> If a man complains about his wife, many ladies here go "You obviously did something to her to make her react like this. Figure out what YOU did and correct it".
> If a woman complains about her husband then the ladies go "Oh you poor dear. Divorce the pig right away!".


Yes, there are a select few who do this 100%. Most ask for a reason and when it is provided judge accordingly.



nirvana said:


> Men do not band together in a brotherhood............


You need new friends or family members if this is how you feel. 



nirvana said:


> Some men like to blame other men apparently to curry favor with the women and come across as a modern feminist forward-thinking man.


Some men are NARCISSISTS who create excuses, logical fallacies and outright lies to ignore their culpability in a given situation.



nirvana said:


> Proof in my mind that the world in the future will be ruled by women. Not because women are stronger, but because men just rolled over and let women walk all over them.


LOL. Logical fallacy.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Thanks everybody for your replies. I will reply to them later.

My new way of dealing with this situation seems to be working better. *In short, I just work on myself, not on my wife. I change my behavior and response, not demand that she do anything to change the way she behaves.*

This is a major shift for me because I tend to respond to everything in some way or other. I can tell that my wife has also been confused as well. I spent a lot of time with the kids this weekend, played tennis, got them to do some house repairs along with me, some school work etc. In spite of that, something was troubling her and she decided to unload on me in the morning. No response from my side. So she escalated and said a lot of mean things and I just listened with no facial reaction, kept loading the dish washer and asked if she wanted coffee because I was making some. She could not believe it. Then she went for broke, she threw in a nuke "_I don't know what I have done to deserve a life with a person like you_". Hmm ok, I let that fly past as well. A lot of grumbling about how busy she is, how I "make her" work in her job (false, she works because she wants a career), how I "make her" do things for the kids etc etc. I know she as doing it to get me to explode, contest her illogical statements and say something nasty so what she just said could be justified in her own mind. None of that was happening which was weird.
Then she was tired, so sat on the couch and I got her some coffee, put my arm around her in a loving non-sexual way and began to talk about some other topic. I could tell that she was thrown off by what was happening. 10+ years of living with me and she thought she knew me by now. How was I not responding with silence? She made some positive movements towards me during this time. Later we went out to the park, all of us and played and she was back to being her happy self again. 

There is no way I can fulfill all her desires in life because life does not work that way. If I could decide, I would quit my job, spend a lot of time with the kids and her, and travel the world and do things I wanted to do. Not go to work every day and worry about retirement, kid's college expenses and all that. I really wish I had 10 million dollars! For some reason, she thinks it is okay to unload on me and blame me for all the stresses she faces in life that I didn't cause. A better way for me to deal with this is to just let her vent and not react or give advice/comments. She is a good person at heart, a very good mom, hard worker, a good employee, great cook, great nutritionist for the family, intelligent and beautiful on the positive side, but lacking empathy, focused too much on the kids at the cost of husband, narcissistic and credit-grabbing on the negative side. She does have a conscience and she probably felt bad for the things she said that I did not respond to. I would feel bad if the reverse had happened.

Let's see how things goes. At our ages, neither of us can change a whole lot, but if we accept each other for what we are, we have a better chance of being happy rather than constantly trying to change the other. I need to keep doing what I just did yesterday. I might have a lapse, I hope not.

PS: She packed my lunch and ironed my clothes this morning. Those two things are signs of her feelings towards me in the mornings.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Two things. One, she's responding positively to your changes. Just remember that women are SLOW to change their mind. So she won't trust that this new improved you is the real you. It will take a long time before she believes the change is permanent, so you'll get a lot of sh*t tests along the way. And you did excellent, by the way! IMO, you're the BEST example I've ever seen here on learning how to change for the better.

Two, the reason she unloads on you is because she loves you and trusts you. You are the SAFE person in her life. Strange as it sounds, we treat the one we trust the most, the worst. Because we know they love us, aren't going anywhere, and will take it. So feel good about that.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Nirvana,

Take a bow. This was a HUGE step forward. 

The next stage of this development will be when your W is frazzled and in addition to remaining calm, you help her out. 

So - when she's mid melt down at the doctors and asks you to take the kids to the next appointment - you ignore the tone - assess the substance and respond with: 

Let me see if I can reschedule my dinner plans. I'll let you know later. And thanks for taking child to the doctor tonight. 






nirvana said:


> Thanks everybody for your replies. I will reply to them later.
> 
> My new way of dealing with this situation seems to be working better. *In short, I just work on myself, not on my wife. I change my behavior and response, not demand that she do anything to change the way she behaves.*
> 
> ...


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Two things. One, she's responding positively to your changes. Just remember that women are SLOW to change their mind. So she won't trust that this new improved you is the real you. It will take a long time before she believes the change is permanent, so you'll get a lot of sh*t tests along the way. And you did excellent, by the way! IMO, you're the BEST example I've ever seen here on learning how to change for the better.
> 
> Two, the reason she unloads on you is because she loves you and trusts you. You are the SAFE person in her life. Strange as it sounds, we treat the one we trust the most, the worst. Because we know they love us, aren't going anywhere, and will take it. So feel good about that.



Actually I don't think I changed a lot except in one major area. 
I did not respond to her $hit-tests (for many years, I was unable to recognize them for what they were) and I did not escalate when she was itching for me to. I hope I can keep this up but yesterday I told myself to keep my ego out of it so when she said some mean things, it seemed like a child saying it and I was able to laugh it off internally, keep calm, and not take it seriously. It worked and it didn't seem that hard to do.

As the spouse who has to take a strategic view of things, I still have to do the unpleasant things I have to do like saving, planning etc. Some of what she said was totally mind-blowing. Like "you make me work at my job". She enjoys being a working woman and while it is stressful like any job, she does not want to go back to being a SAHM. Then why say this? The only reason that I can think of is she is getting me to react because I will say angrily "What do you mean?? You work because you WANT to work!!" and it goes on and on from there followed by 2 days of ghostly silence at home, then her cribbing that the house is silent and blaming me for it. This time I talked like everything was normal, so no excuse that the house was silent.

As far as I am concerned this experience was a success. I just have to watch out for when she is getting in her mood and flip the switch in my head. Of course, this also means that I have to be calm and non-confrontational from my end too when I am stressed out. 
This is not a silver bullet, but i think there's some progress.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

staarz21 said:


> I am a woman. I'm not saying your wife is right, because she needs to work on her communication. She seems to have a HUGE resentment toward you that involves work around the house.
> 
> Why? You say that you do a lot. She says you don't. You guys need to sit down and write a list of what you each THINK you do around the house and with the kids (and write when you think the last time you did it was). Show it to each other. Discuss.


I think the main reason is she doesn't consider the work I do as important as the work that she does. 

We both do different things which are all important. She does most of the short term things and I do the long term things. I also do the things that need to get done outside the house like the lawn, trash etc. She does her chores, I fully agree. I think it is disrespectful on her part to say that I don't after enjoying the benefits of my efforts and building on it to get her tasks done. Another issue is she gets resentful and even says that the things I do don't help her. It's my duty to do things that help the family out long term, not just help her out from the millions of things she signs up for. If I did that, then I would never be done and she will still be unhappy, and the important long term things won't get done.



> What I'm picking up here in this particular instance is that she wants you to be a decision maker - even if it's just something small. If you wanted to go, you should have said...okay I am going to pick up a pizza - I will get it on my way. She said she would come too, you should have just said okay, awesome. I'm not sure why she asked you if you wanted to come...unless you didn't give her a definitive answer the first time. Did you mean she asked you if you wanted HER to come? Sorry I am a little confused when you said, " Then she asked me if she wanted me to come."
> 
> Answers like "anything you want" can come off as, " I don't really care if you're with me or not". She seems to only understand straight forward answers. Do that from now on if you can. Yes. No. If she asks what you want for dinner, tell her something specific. If she argues it...tell her to make a decision - etc.


In this case, I was going to go pick up the pizza and the sugar by myself. Not a particularly exciting drive. Then she said we all should go. Ok. Then she asks if she should come. 
Me: ???
That is when I said it was up to her, it was just Pizza Hut and Target, not Switzerland (I did't say the last part). This was not a "you or me" decision. Please note that I did say "ok" the first time. 
I think it was a $hit-test/fight-bait and I fell for it.  I kept kicking myself as I drove off. She got an excuse to say how rude I was. She was stressed about other stuff like kids not doing their workbooks, so she wanted to unload on me I suspect.



> Now, on to the 4k. Let me first just say that if I ran a 4k...I would be praising myself too. It's okay for people to praise themselves a little bit. Maybe she was even looking for you to notice as well. Her fishing like that, makes me wonder if she feels like you don't notice her hard work. She works, she takes care of the house, she takes care of the kids, She cooks, cleans, etc....AND she is keeping her health up. She IS doing a lot. It sounds like she just wants someone to notice that.


She is well past a 4k. She did a 15k this weekend. I praise her a lot. There is another thread I opened asking if there was something like too much praise. I think I might have praised her too much and she is now in a "I am better than you" mindset. She keeps hinting about how I am weak, not bold, has a habit of giving up etc and how our kids are not like that (due to her upbringing). Yesterday after our daughter did roller skates, she started praising how SHE trained her. I don't really care who does it as long as our kids and we benefit. Should I say "I make 6 figures!" and "We live in this nice house because of ME!" because that is actually the truth. Who cares? Life is not clear cut and credit is not solely due to one person. Yesterday when she did that, I just let it slide by without making any comments. I don't think she was fishing for me to compliment her, it was more like giving herself an ego boost. Her dad and sister are the same way.
She does not notice anything I do. Don't you think she should make me feel nice as well? That seems reasonable to me...



> So, with you not saying anything she moves on to try and get something, anything out of you by asking you if you're tired. Now, before I go any further...my H is the runner in our relationship. He has to be for his job. So, when we go to the track and run together...he overlaps me twice, sometimes 3 times lol. It's embarrassing. He makes fun of me. I'm halfway dying and he's still got enough air in his lungs to laugh. The nerve! But it's okay. I don't care because I KNOW he's better than I am in that particular case. He can prove it all day long ha! It does not bother me. I laugh with him (when I catch my breath).


Well, I've done a half marathon length (21.1k) and she's done a max of 18k. So I am "better", but I think it is petty to think in those terms. She is fit, but I can beat her if we raced.
It's just one of her things to make herself feel better, and to manipulate me into doing what she wants me to do. That is the reason why she had started comparing me to "other dads" when it came to child-raising. You know, men don't like their wives comparing them to other men. They are all her friend's husbands. One of the guys spends all weekends watching football. Another is a party boy. It's their life, but this comparison is silly. When she does that again, I just ignore it rendering it ineffective.



> You think she has a self delusion about your life being relaxed. Prove to her that you do just as much as she does. If you don't do just as much...that's still okay. There are certain aspects that are simply on her to change. For example, housework. If she is trying to keep the house completely spotless, nothing out of place, clean...then that's on her. She can change that. The problem is she was a SAHM for 10 years. That's kind of like you being a professional basketball player for 10 years and then going in to be a Ballerina instructor after that long. She is only ONE year into her her new job. Her adjustment on that is going to take some time.
> In the mean time when she is acting out at you, call her out immediately. Tell her if she has a problem with what you're doing (or not doing) she needs to say it outright. Let her know that from now on if she doesn't at least respectfully ask you do help her, you will not be doing it.
> I'm not talking about quitting all household responsibilities either. The house does need to be cleaned, laundry done, kids needs to go to their appointments....


She is not a good housekeeper. The house is usually a mess. If we tidy it up she lets the kids muck it up again. She thinks it keeps them creative. She likes to read articles and implement them. I have given up on that aspect. Then she invites people home and runs everyone batty because the house is in a bad shape. I think the biggest problem is she is trying to do TWO jobs at the same time and feeling like she is not able to, getting stressed, then blaming me. I tell her to chill out, relax, nap on Saturday afternoons, but she refuses and says she isn't lazy. Then she does more, gets stressed and mor resentful. I don't thinkshe is always logical or even rational. Yesterday she said she hated being with me, and later that night I am sure I could have had sex with her if she wasn't genuinely tired.
Maybe time is the best teacher here.



> And let me just say, if my H chose to go to a dinner over taking our kid to the Dr. I would have been p*ssed, too. If he had a dinner scheduled, he would changed it without me even knowing because the kid going to the Dr. is more important and it's higher on the priority list. He wouldn't play a game with me by first telling me he had a dinner and couldn't take the kid...then changing the dinner and not telling me. That's immature. You shouldn't have done that.
> 
> Other than that, I think you guys need to learn to talk to each other. If you can't talk to each other and see the problem...write it down so that it's physically right in front of you and you can discuss each issue one by one. Remember to make a list of what you think you do (and the last time you did it) that way each of you can see how you see things.


That is not what happened. Of course, the doc appt is more important. In the past, I have skipped work when my son fractured his arm and my wife had to go to work (she was an hourly contractor). Should I accuse her of loving her job more than her kid? But this time she planned the doc appt around her schedule choosing from dates that she was free. She did not ask me. Then she suddenly decides that I could do it and then gets angry that I had something else planned. It's not just me, I have to make sure my friend is free too. That isn't fair. It's not that I had a dinner planned first, and the doc said only that day was available and my wife was working late. In this case, she just felt like she didn't want to do it. Even then she could have asked me nicely instead of trying to bully me.

I had thought of making a list some time ago, andeven made a template but didn't move forward. Seems like a good idea.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I remember a particular occasion during the early years of DH and I being married where I was feeling frustrated and upset and said something angry to him, and he laughed at me. Sort of like how you'd laugh at a puppy getting frustrated at you, so cute and adorable. I suppose what I was doing would've been classed as a $hit test, but it was really just me struggling to cope with a situation, and struggling to communicate with him. I remember being taken aback, but I ended up laughing too. I wish I had done that for him more over the years. Not responding to the "$hit tests" as people like to call them, but I think of them as peaks of stress/anger/anxiety that happen throughout life, in a way that doesn't make your spouse feel unimportant/unloved/ignored is a great skill to have.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Now that I know what a $hit-test is, I see my wife doing that all the time and for a long long time.

This morning, she came up and asked me about what vacations I had planned. At this point, I am going through some career uncertainty and I might switch jobs or even switch cities in the coming weeks or months. I had talked about her lack of empathy to people, and this came through again. She demanded:
When are we going to visit my sister (in another country)?
When are we going to Disneyland?
Why don't we go downtown for our son's birthday?
When are we going to the ATP tennis tournament?

She knows that our son's passport had expired and it is in process so we cannot go visit her sister until then. I have some interviews coming up so I have that on my mind. If I switch jobs, then I will have no vacation days saved up. Disneyland will take a whole week and about $5k. We just went to 2 vacations costing a total of about $2500 this summer. Then she said "I want to take the kids". This is a $hit test and a jab trying to say that she will take the kids and I am not needed. I had another slight lapse at this point when I said "you want to take the kids and go? you are free to". I should have let that slide and been calm. That gave her the excuse to let loose a torrent of *****ing about how stingy I was, how I will not take the money anywhere when I die, how she will make her son "fun loving" unlike a boring person like me... etc etc. She wants to go to the beach but our son hates it since he has grown out of it. Our daughter still likes it. My wife is now trying to force feed our son and tell him what he should like! He is approaching teenage and will get more and more independent and former SAHMs who are control freaks will have a hard time. I will stay out of this and let her deal with it, otherwise knowing her crazy mind, she will blame me and make me the reason why her son does not want to listen to her so she is now the good person and I am the reason why her harebrained plans fail. The other day she was angry that he did not want to fly kites and wanted to drag him to the park when he wanted to play tennis. I see this behavior in a lot of SAHMs in our circle. They make their kids their everything and try to control them because they have nothing else and then are angry when the kids grow up.

I am beginning to suspect that she is heading to some sort of mid-life crisis. She is talking about wanting to have "fun" and what kind of awesome fun loving person she is and how I am holding her back etc.

Anyway so I composed myself as I showered and then got back on track mentally. Keeping calm is a hard thing to do when faced with an unbalanced unreasonable selfish person, but that is what I have to do.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're doing well. Couple of suggestions. One, talk to your kids A LOT about things, about how their mom means well, she just has different views, etc. I had to do this with DD24 growing up so she wouldn't absolutely hate her dad - help her see that he's a good guy, just sees things differently than us. And help your son find healthy ways of dealing with her crazy so he DOESN'T rebel.

Two, try to start finding ways of talking to your wife. She is SCARED SH*TLESS right now about this new version of you. Like you said, she's been treating you a certain way all your marriage. And suddenly this stranger walks in and pulls the rug out from under her. You have to expect her to rebel at YOU, for 'doing this to her.' So any time you see an opportunity to provide a little more information about WHY you're reacting differently - without getting into an argument - do it. Reassure her you're not going anywhere. Like with the vacations. You have perfectly valid reasons but you didn't GIVE them to her. Maybe send her a text later explaining it all.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> You're doing well. Couple of suggestions. One, talk to your kids A LOT about things, about how their mom means well, she just has different views, etc. I had to do this with DD24 growing up so she wouldn't absolutely hate her dad - help her see that he's a good guy, just sees things differently than us. And help your son find healthy ways of dealing with her crazy so he DOESN'T rebel.
> 
> Two, try to start finding ways of talking to your wife. She is SCARED SH*TLESS right now about this new version of you. Like you said, she's been treating you a certain way all your marriage. And suddenly this stranger walks in and pulls the rug out from under her. You have to expect her to rebel at YOU, for 'doing this to her.' So any time you see an opportunity to provide a little more information about WHY you're reacting differently - without getting into an argument - do it. Reassure her you're not going anywhere. Like with the vacations. You have perfectly valid reasons but you didn't GIVE them to her. Maybe send her a text later explaining it all.


Thanks turnera.
I am not sure if I can cause her attitude to improve, but at the minimum, I think I can prevent her from causing damage to me. I am not sure I should interfere in how she is interacting with the kids. Maybe a dosage of rebellion will put her in her place and realize that her family are not her pawns.

She tends to look at everything in a single lens. "What can I do that the kids will enjoy?". She looks like she is going out of control on that and getting mad that I don't share the same passion. She tries to paint it as if I don't love our kids as much as she does. She doesn't get it that people love in different ways. Frankly, this is highly annoying and pi$$es me off.

Anyway, I think the next few weeks, she will continue to try to bait and poke me to get me to explode on her so she can rationalize her behavior to herself. The key for me is NOT to get angry, NOT to say anything nasty and NOT to get into an argument. It's just 3 things. I've noticed that she does try to engage me into an argument and then throws things that happened 15 years ago at me and claim that it is pent-up anger. Whatever. 

The problem I see with telling her why I am allowing her to be a @#$!# without me reacting like I do always is that she will use that information to come up with something else to trigger me and the cycle will repeat. At least now she appears to be confused.

Instead of worrying about how she feels, I think I need to focus on training myself to not get affected when she behaves badly. It's not easy when someone supposedly close to you is trying to rip your very being into shreds. She can manage herself.

I've made the mistake of talking to her over email/text before and its worse that talking to her in person because she is 10 times more ilogical. When she tries that, I just ignore it. If she wants, she can talk to me in person.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

I had texted her about the tennis tournament and she called me during lunch break. I told her about the uncertainty and how we could potentially go. The conversation went nicely until I was telling her about the friend I was going to meet, and she began to sigh loudly so I could hear. I asked her what the matter was and she began to tell me how busy she was, how much work she had etc etc. She knows this friend I am going to be meeting but the way she behaves is very disrespectful. I quickly put an end to the conversation. Then she sends me texts about how I make it sound like she is nagging, and how I act like I am doing her a favor... she grew up traveling and wants our kids to be that way etc etc. Oh what a nice mom. And an evil dad who is always getting in the way. 
Reality? Her dad worked in a Government job and had travel perks. Use it or lose it. So he would take the family traveling and the company paid. But I don't work in a Govt job and have no such perks. I have to pay for this myself. She fails to see the difference. Years earlier, she compared me to another family who traveled a lot. Reality? He worked for a prominent airline and so tickets were free on standby. So they were able to travel more on his low salary since they only had to pay for hotel and car rental. I have to point this out else she just does not understand. 

Needless to say, I am not responding to her text since she is itching to pull me into her vortex.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You could always include her in budget discussions.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Wife's.Irrational.Moodiness.

Three words which are all the same word.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> You could always include her in budget discussions.


I've invited her but she doesn't care about that. I've told her about our net worth milestones that we cross and she turns that against me when she is angry. Oh boo hoo... what is the use of having x thousand dollars when we don't even spend it boo hoooo! 

You know what? I am just realizing that I have been $hit tested for ever and ever! And I have mostly failed. I am not talking about the sweet "do you love me" kinds. This is hard core manipulation by a woman for selfish needs. This was probably obvious to most posters here. The comparison with other guys when they played with their kids etc etc. It is devious and I was naive. I knew it to be "emotional blackmail" as they call it in her family, but it is plain old $hit testing. 

I am reading up on it and how to best respond. My current plan seems to be inline with it (ignore her ranting, pretend as if everything is normal, never get angry or argue). I wonder if there are some more tips I can pick up. Any material available?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy?

I also really like Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. as well as the website that the author has. He even has seminars for men. You might want to look into it.
Better Men Life Coaching | Los Angeles Life Coach for Men
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8YSZdC_4Ek
http://www.amazon.com/Hold-Your-NUTs-Relationship-Manual/dp/0979054400
http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/...-life-the-hold-on-to-your-nuts-book-giveaway/

Basically, what you'll learn is to make sure that you MATTER. Get a life. Keep your friends. Do what you've always wanted to do. But at the same time, romance your wife, date your wife, show her you're invested in her - you just won't take crap any more. She's free to throw her fits; you just won't engage any more.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I will second N.U.T.'s. It was the best of the self improvement books I read.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

nirvana said:


> Yeah, she is resentful, but then I think all wives are over some reason or the other. All my friends have similar issues.


I guess that's ok then. Where is the problem?

You don't want to get sick by doing all the things she wants you to do. So who does those things that have to be done anyway?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

nirvana said:


> Probably. She needs to understand that she cannot run roughshod over everything. She needs to learn to be nice to me.
> She can actually have me do 99% of the things she wants, she just has to *ask the right way and be respectful.*


Do you respect her? Because your posts do not show that.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

WandaJ said:


> Do you respect her? Because your posts do not show that.


I do. 
And I have shown it in concrete actions, not just idle talk.
My posts deal with my problem which stems from what I am unhappy about. So obviously it is about things that she does that I do not like. What did I say here that makes you think that I do not respect her? What does respect mean to you?

Please don't use turn this on me and make me defend myself. My wife does this to me all the time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Nirvana, our job is to weed out the self-bias and make sure we're giving you the right advice. Which means we sometimes have to read between the lines.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Makes me think of Shawshank Redemption when an inmate asks who is innocent and apparently all of them are. That's what this board is like. Everybody is innocent, but we all know that's a load of garbage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

nirvana said:


> I do.
> And I have shown it in concrete actions, not just idle talk.
> My posts deal with my problem which stems from what I am unhappy about. So obviously it is about things that she does that I do not like. *What did I say here that makes you think that I do not respect her? What does respect mean to you?
> *
> Please don't use turn this on me and make me defend myself. My wife does this to me all the time.


the way you write about her. It shows frustration and venting, but also gives away some vibe of lack of respect. Which I think is mutual in your relationship, and you both feed on this, and escalade the conflict.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

WandaJ said:


> the way you write about her. It shows frustration and venting, but also gives away some vibe of lack of respect. Which I think is mutual in your relationship, and you both feed on this, and escalade the conflict.


I agree. 

And please understand that's a very human thing to do - lose respect for the one person you marry, expecting to love and nurture you but who turns out not to do so. The problem is that, you get what you give.

Have you read His Needs Her Needs? It's the most outstanding book about marriages and relationships I've ever seen. It is SO on point. It's basic psychology, and that's why I like it so much. I firmly believe in listening to psychology because, well, we all follow the laws of psychology unless you're a psychopath.

Anyway, the basic tenet of HNHN is that every one of us has certain Emotional Needs that feed our feeling of being loved and certain Love Busters that - if our spouse does them - make us feel UNloved. The further tenet is that it's your responsibility to ensure that you know your spouse's ENs and LBs and are meeting those top ENs and NOT doing those top LBs. And the last tenet is that, if you DO do this, unless your spouse has significant mental issues/FOO problems, they will RESPOND to this, to your nurturing of them, and do the same for you.

Now, IMO, what HNHN does NOT cover is what's inside No More Mr Nice Guy; meaning, men today are often driven to be TOO nice to their woman, which confuses women and ANGERS women, because they psychologically (without even knowing it) want a strong man. A man who doesn't take their crap, who ignores the sh*t tests.

Now, you're getting the NMMNG part down right now, you've stopped accepting the sh*t tests. But you're not following the OTHER side of it - meeting the ENs and stopping the LBs. 

So all she's getting is feeling like you don't give a damn. It may stop the sh*t tests, but it won't engender feelings of love for you - only hatred.

Which is why I kept telling you to stop and EXPLAIN to her why you're doing what you're doing. The fact that you don't WANT to tells me one of two things - either you have no respect left for her and frankly don't care if she's happy, or that you're not really secure in your 'no more sh*t testness' and are afraid if you open it up for discussion she'll railroad you. Which is fully understandable. Like I said, I've never seen anyone take to the 'no more sh*t testness' quite as quickly or firmly as you. But it does lead me to those two possible conclusions.

But the bottom line is this: if you want to stay married to her, throw her a bone. Meet those ENs. TALK to her. Or else she'll just decide you hate her and leave you.

I hope all this made sense.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

WandaJ said:


> the way you write about her. It shows frustration and venting, but also gives away some vibe of lack of respect. Which I think is mutual in your relationship, and you both feed on this, and escalade the conflict.


Yes, there is frustration and venting. I don't deny that. But I respected her a lot and have encouraged her in reaching her potential all along. Not just through talk but with action. 

At this point, I am fed up of being on edge all the time. 

Like I said, I can only control my actions. It's an epiphany that I had been dealing with $hit tests for ever and I had not responded in the right way. Maybe because I don't think a wife should be doing that to her husband. 

Anyway, this morning came another one. I have plans of moving back to my home country. My wife is on board. I mentioned it again yesterday after meeting my friend for dinner. The first thing she says is "you are not good with change, how will you manage this?". My response was to begin to explain how I have managed change but in 15 seconds I realized I was being a fool, so I stopped right there and says "change is a part of life" and moved on. 

She was cooking dinner this morning and burned something on the stove which I smelled and shut off since she was in the bathroom. She came and begin to grumble the usual stuff about how she does everything, is a servant, etc etc. I just went about my business and did not reply. Then she came to the door and wished me goodbye. 

So I think i am on the right track. It will not be easy.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

nirvana said:


> Yes, there is frustration and venting. I don't deny that. But I respected her a lot and have encouraged her in reaching her potential all along. Not just through talk but with action.
> 
> At this point, I am fed up of being on edge all the time.
> 
> ...


Nirvana, I know all about **** testing and being in disrespectful marriage. around twenty years of that experience.

The things is, that even if she is the one who started the cycle, after a while, you have join her in it, and now you both are dismissive of each other needs. That's normal. But good thing is that you are trying to breake the cycle now. 
Just because she is nagging, it does not mean she does not have a point. In your post you dismiss whatever she says as moody, or irrational, instead of trying to see if she might have a case behind that "disrespectful" tone. You got yourself nice car as MLC, but denying your wife's vacation. You just said "I am moving back to my country and my wife is on board" - I would think such important decsion should be made together, "We are moving ...". Just the way you framed this statement shows a lot. It gives me suspicion that you do whatever you want, and she is supposed accept it. That would explain a lot of her resentments towards you.

Am I wrong?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you moving and leaving her where you are now? You don't even mention HER moving.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

nirvana said:


> Yes, she has a job, been working for a year after 10+ years of school + raising children. She's been this way after our kids were born but it's escalated a bit in the last year. She think she can do everything, then gets tired/frustrated and then blames me for not helping. I didn't ask her to sign up for a million things. I am busy myself and i don't want to fall sick trying to carry out the things that she wants.
> 
> Yeah, she is resentful, but then I think all wives are over some reason or the other. All my friends have similar issues.


I bet that thought you believe you share the domestic workload equally, you do not. She only started working a year ago but probably also does everything she did before she started working. Typically you said you didn't ask her to do it but the fact remains that running a household and taking care of kids, their needs, their ECA etc takes time and energy.

Your wife is not getting the support she needs, she shows her displeasure and you turn it into a game. 
I suggest that you tell your wife to take a break at a nice spa for 3 days and you handle everything she does during that time. That does not mean she comes home to a house full of dirty clothes, dishes, etc but you do exactly what she does to keep the household in order, get kids to their activities, etc then maybe you will begin to understand and appreciate the work she does and not play stupid power games. I do not condone her behaviour, she needs to communicate what she needs from you but I guess this way is better for you as it avoids the real topic, i.e. you are not pulling your weight for your wife. Earning a salary alone doesn't cut it, she earns one too.

To illustrate, I went off for a week with friends on a holiday and left the H and teenage son to it. When i got back nothing had been done, my son said it was as if a switch had turned off in the house (his words) though I couldn't understand why he couldn't do his own laundry! I guess I should be thankful the dogs were still alive.:laugh:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Excellent point. I think I may have suggested to you at one point to get a poster board and write down every single thing that needs to get done in a week - cleaning, shopping, laundry, homework, kids' baths, mowing, etc. And then, since BOTH of you work full time, you take turns TAKING ON RESPONSIBILITY for items on that list, you take one, then she takes one, then you take one, then she takes one (and give the kids some if they're old enough - older than 3 or 4) - until all items on the list are 'claimed.' This lets you take responsibility for the things you don't mind doing as much, so you both end up fairly happy about what you have to get done.

That way, you DO have a fair distribution of the work and her complaints just might go away.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

WandaJ said:


> Nirvana, I know all about **** testing and being in disrespectful marriage. around twenty years of that experience.
> 
> The things is, that even if she is the one who started the cycle, after a while, you have join her in it, and now you both are dismissive of each other needs. That's normal. But good thing is that you are trying to breake the cycle now.
> Just because she is nagging, it does not mean she does not have a point. In your post you dismiss whatever she says as moody, or irrational, instead of trying to see if she might have a case behind that "disrespectful" tone. You got yourself nice car as MLC, but denying your wife's vacation. You just said "I am moving back to my country and my wife is on board" - I would think such important decsion should be made together, "We are moving ...". Just the way you framed this statement shows a lot. It gives me suspicion that you do whatever you want, and she is supposed accept it. That would explain a lot of her resentments towards you.
> ...


I have never claimed that I was totally innocent. I have also at times been rude an an a-hole, just like every human on earth. But I have always loved my family, and taken decisions for the long term good. I have sacrificed personally for this.

As far as the nice car, well, I had been using a car I bought in 1998 and it was trashy and the window fell off. Rusting, and paint chipping off. It was an awful sight in a nice neighborhood we live in. My wife herself was bugging me to get rid of it. When we were expecting company, she would herself park it somewhere no one would see it. I myself didn't care if anyone saw it. I think women are more mindful about appearances than men. So I needed a car anyway since this one was on its last legs. All I did was buy a used car (almost new) paying some 7k more than if I had bought any other car. Is that MLC? Maybe or maybe not. With our income levels, we could afford it. I would never buy something we could not afford. I did not deny her a vacation. We went to a water park in June and to New York in July, both on her asking. Now she wants to go to Cincinnati and then visit her sister. I have interviews coming up so I don't want these plans to interfere. I have denied her some things in the past, but I have never been a hypocrite by enjoying that myself. Since I don't own a money tree, I have to be mindful on what we spend. We spent on a nice house in a good school district instead of on Rolexes and Louis Vittons like some of our friends.

When she has a point, I listen to her. When she does not and is just being a #[email protected]#, I don't. She called me from work just now and was very sweet. I listened and we talked. I don't know what happens when she gets stressed out and starts flinging insults and taunting. Maybe it's a hormone thing?

ha.. of course we make this decision of moving back TOGETHER, why would you think I am still going back and forth on it for many years? If we move, we will move to a city where her parents live as that's where the jobs are. My parents are in a neighboring city. All big decisions that I make are done jointly. Like buying this house. Buying her SUV. Buying my car. She came with me during test drives. I don't know why you assume things like this. We have been talking about moving for about 5 years. She wants to move too as she thinks our kids will get more experiences and we can get back to our roots. The only wrinkle is re-adjusting after being here for so long and in the US, life is good as we all know.

Her resentment is "I have too much work" and "you need to spend more time with the kids". I can do some more and I try, but I will never be able to satisfy her as the target keeps moving.

Does this information make you change your assessment?


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Excellent point. I think I may have suggested to you at one point to get a poster board and write down every single thing that needs to get done in a week - cleaning, shopping, laundry, homework, kids' baths, mowing, etc. And then, since BOTH of you work full time, you take turns TAKING ON RESPONSIBILITY for items on that list, you take one, then she takes one, then you take one, then she takes one (and give the kids some if they're old enough - older than 3 or 4) - until all items on the list are 'claimed.' This lets you take responsibility for the things you don't mind doing as much, so you both end up fairly happy about what you have to get done.
> 
> That way, you DO have a fair distribution of the work and her complaints just might go away.


This is a good idea. I had even made up a template a couple of months ago but did not proceed. I think I should work on it a bit more. Our son is taking up the trash duties now. 

BTW, I am taking our son to the doc this evening.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

How did that conversation go?





nirvana said:


> This is a good idea. I had even made up a template a couple of months ago but did not proceed. I think I should work on it a bit more. Our son is taking up the trash duties now.
> 
> BTW, I am taking our son to the doc this evening.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

nirvana said:


> Does this information make you change your assessment?


I am not sure. there is something in the way you write about all this, that gives off the wrong vibe. I think you have already decided that it is all her craziness, and want us to help you prove it, instead of trying to figure out why she feels the way she feels.

BTW, if this is the way you also communicate with her, that might be part of the problem. Sometimes it is more about how we say things, then what we say.

Edit: I just checked your MLC thread, and I think staarz is right: you have dismissive attitude. You dismiss what your wife says to you , you dismiss what people here try to tell you. You think you are right, and that's it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

YES

And this tone - of condescension - will never work. 

Combined with the power struggle, this makes one outcome certain: Mutually assured destruction. 





WandaJ said:


> I am not sure. there is something in the way you write about all this, that gives off the wrong vibe. I think you have already decided that it is all her craziness, and want us to help you prove it, instead of trying to figure out why she feels the way she feels.
> 
> BTW, if this is the way you also communicate with her, that might be part of the problem. Sometimes it is more about how we say things, then what we say.
> 
> Edit: I just checked your MLC thread, and I think staarz is right: you have dismissive attitude. You dismiss what your wife says to you , you dismiss what people here try to tell you. You think you are right, and that's it.


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## hotshotdot (Jul 28, 2015)

I've read through this thread & there has been some good feedback already so I'll stick to some examples that might help.

First, she is struggling to do it all & is very stressed out. That leads to her feeling resentful that you aren't doing your part. We all know she can't do it all, she knows she can't do it all, which is why she is grumbling about having to do everything. I'm not saying you don't do anything, you may do a lot, but obviously she needs a little more help from you sometimes. 

The right thing would be for her to plainly ask, but when she asked you to take your kid to the Dr. you said you were busy. If that's the type of response she gets when she does ask, she is going to feel like she can't ask (or like she's asking you for a favor) & will grow more resentful each time. So when she does ask, try your best to be there for her. If she gets an attitude when asking, call her on it, and tell her you'd be happy to help but would appreciate it if she could ask nicely next time.

It comes down to this:!When she is stressed & tired she will be more irritable. So when she starts complaining about all the things she has to do & starts getting worked up, try asking her what you can do to help. Follow it with action by getting up & doing something to help (even if she doesn't give you a task) whether it be washing dishes, sweeping the floor, or just picking up around the house. You might be surprised how that effort alone will soften her. Your urging her to relax is not going to help unless you offer to take care of some of the things she is stressing over. In her mind, how can she relax when she has this huge list of things that need to be done & they aren't going to get done on their own. *I'm sure not everything needs to get done & probably doesn't get done, but that's a discussion for later when she's not so stressed out & irritable.

Second, she is going through a huge adjustment right now. Having been a SAHM, a WAHM, & a FT working outside the home mom, I can tell you none of it is easy. It all takes adjustment but especially going from SAHM for 10 years to working full time. She is going to have to figure some things out for herself (she simply can't do it all) but you can help her get there if you approach it the right way. The more she is able to let go of by handing it over to you, the easier it will be for her to let go of other things that really aren't important. 

Third, she has said she wants to have fun. This is not a midlife crisis. This is her trying to let loose of the stress. This is good. Whatever she needs to do to relax is better for all of you. What are you working & saving for if not to enjoy life & spend quality time with the ones you love? If you can't go with her because of work, tell her you'd love to go but can't at that time. Then tell her you want her to take the kids & have a good time because she deserves a break. *If your son doesn't want to go, tell her to take your daughter & you'll have some one on one time with your son at home. She might really like the idea & then everyone is happy. 

Last but not least, I think you've made a really good start by not engaging her, that will relieve some tension for both of you. It's the beginning but not a long term solution because the underlying issues have to be dealt with. It's really not a game, it does feel that way, but it's a twisted cry for help. The good news is that this can be fixed. The more you show you care & want to help her, the less stressed she will be, the resentment starts to fade away, & is replaced with an appreciation for you stepping up to help her. There's plenty of hope for a happy household!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

[

Her resentment is "I have too much work" and "you need to spend more time with the kids". I can do some more and I try, but I will never be able to satisfy her as the target keeps moving.

Does this information make you change your assessment?[/QUOTE]




These are perennial problems in marriages. You both need to sit down and be specific about how you can share in the workload. She sounds like a bit of a perfectionist which often puts on more pressure. She may need to let things in the household slide a bit ( a bit more dust, less ironing, fast food occassionally, etc) and you need to be ok with that and help out more.

Maybe you work hard to give them a good life, men are driven to be the providers but do not let your kids grow up not having you, all the money and career success will not make up for it. I know it is difficult to balance this for most people (men and women) but you have to fix specific times of the week which are for the children and put them first.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

[

Her resentment is "I have too much work" and "you need to spend more time with the kids". I can do some more and I try, but I will never be able to satisfy her as the target keeps moving.

Does this information make you change your assessment?[/QUOTE]




These are perennial problems in marriages. You both need to sit down and be specific about how you can share in the workload. She sounds like a bit of a perfectionist which often puts on more pressure. She may need to let things in the household slide a bit ( a bit more dust, less ironing, fast food occasionally, etc) and you need to be ok with that and help out more.

Maybe you work hard to give them a good life, men are driven to be the providers but do not let your kids grow up not having you, all the money and career success will not make up for it. I know it is difficult to balance this for most people (men and women) but you have to fix specific times of the week which are for the children and put them first.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> How did that conversation go?


Very benign.
The previous day morning she brought up the issue of the appointment and was making plans to go and I told her that I had moved my dinner to that day (Tue) and I would be taking him. She asked again, just to confirm and I said yes. She said okay and that was it.

Yesterday I took him for the appointment and all was well.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

WandaJ said:


> I am not sure. there is something in the way you write about all this, that gives off the wrong vibe. I think you have already decided that it is all her craziness, and want us to help you prove it, instead of trying to figure out why she feels the way she feels.
> 
> BTW, if this is the way you also communicate with her, that might be part of the problem. Sometimes it is more about how we say things, then what we say.
> 
> Edit: I just checked your MLC thread, and I think staarz is right: you have dismissive attitude. You dismiss what your wife says to you , you dismiss what people here try to tell you. You think you are right, and that's it.


Let's agree to disagree here.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Over the last few days since I've adopted this new way of dealing with things, it's been a lot better. Of course, still early days. I don't get involved in any arguments/fights and I just let her blow off steam and say whatever she wants without contesting it. More importantly, I behave normally and don't do any silent treatment stuff or show any anger even after she's said some nasty things.

Better for my own peace of mind and I notice she feels bad after the whole thing when she calms down. I just need to keep this up and not lapse.

This morning, as she was dressing for work, she wore a top of hers that I liked and asked me how she looked and it was okay to wear it or was too tight. I said she looked outstanding and very hot and she should definitely wear it. :grin2:


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

All I can add to the discussion is that I think you should reconsider calling her out when she speaks to you poorly. I get that you are working this from your angle and not trying to change her. Guess to my mind that works great for you, and helps you but does nothing for her and nothing to change the relationship. Isn't that ultimately what you want. If you just ignor and disengage is she able to connect the dots on what caused that. As an example in the past I have found out that someone was upset with me for something I said, it was taken out of context and they never clarified with me, they instead just fumed. Well this went on for about a week before I noticed they were acting a bit irrational and called them on it then they come out with why they were upset for over a week and I never noticed it. Quick convo and clarification and it was over, never needed to be a thing in the first place. Guess all I'm saying is that if the ultimate goal is to fix the communication in marriage then you have to communicate. And that means telling her you don't appreciate being spoken to in that manner lets her know what you don't like. Then you can disengage from further arguments but least she knows.

Guess just a different way I have of looking at it. I think your right that she is doing **** tests as a game but make no mistake you are doing similar when you disengage and don't let her know why.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

nirvana said:


> I do.
> And I have shown it in concrete actions, not just idle talk.
> My posts deal with my problem which stems from what I am unhappy about. So obviously it is about things that she does that I do not like. *What did I say here that makes you think that I do not respect her*? What does respect mean to you?
> 
> Please don't use turn this on me and make me defend myself. My wife does this to me all the time.


You regularly use very disparaging language about her. Irrational is the example of this post.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Hello all,
This thread has been very useful to me. Some members like turnera have helped me through it. Some members have unfortunately focused on irrelevant points like my "tone" or my choice or words instead of sticking to the facts which merely distracts from the main issue at hand rather than help solve it.

I realized that my wife was $hit testing me all this while and I have been failing with alarming regularity. My reactions were very poor. Not that I am a weak man... I have made very bold decisions for the family bucking the popular trend, but I still had some flaws that I now realize. That does not mean that she has been great and I have been awful, but 

My new strategy has shown good results in the 5-7 days I have been using it. I just have to ensure that I don't fall of the horse in a moment of weakness.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

To be clear, your tone is VITALLY important in terms of how you interact with your wife. If you do with her what you do with many people here - fight back, defend yourself, not consider the other person's choice or opinion - she may very well decide she doesn't want to deal with your tone.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

We had a fight over the weekend. I would put that down as a lapse of control on my part though she instigated it. She wanted to buy a watch for our son and that was fine... then she wanted to buy one for our little daughter and asked me. I said she was too small and my wife got mad and called me "negative". Why ask me if you don't like what you might hear? She wanted to buy our son a bicycle and I am in 2 minds because we might move to another city/country so I was not sure, but went along. She was mad about that also. That led to a blow up and it got bad. While she was rude to me, I should have kept control and I did not.

The next day I apologized for my lack of control and for allowing it to escalate. The next day she had her period, so I guess it was PMS that was responsible. I am usually watchful of this time but I missed it this time. Oh well. I just have to get stronger. That day we went for an indoor family activity for about 4-5 hours and her mood improved and she was very loving after that. Her period is still on-going but she's been very sweet, calling me loving pet names, hugging me in bed etc. 

Overall, inspite of my lapses, I think there is definite slow progress. My wife basically feels that I oppose her on everything which is untrue, but I do give my opinion. I have generally changed how I do things and do not give an opinion unless asked though that isn't fool proof either. I need to get better at picking the right battles and letting go on the ones that don't make a difference. 

She's in a good mood in spite of her body ache and intensity of work and when she is very loving, she is such a delight. I wish she was more aggressive in the bedroom too but this will do for now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

nirvana said:


> The next day I apologized for my lack of control
> 
> her mood improved and she was very loving after that
> 
> Overall, in spite of my lapses, I think there is definite slow progress. My wife basically feels that I oppose her on everything which is untrue, but I do give my opinion. I have generally changed how I do things and do not give an opinion unless asked


When men who are seen as opposing everything a woman says or wants, finally apologize, it means a LOT. Thus the loving behavior. She just needs to see you giving in a little.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Weekend was great!
I reminded myself on Friday that the "danger zone" was approaching, so that I don't fall into the pit like I did last weekend because of my own stupidity.

I didn't do anything radical, I just let her have her say on whatever she wanted to say and I made a conscious effort not to make it seem like I was opposing or analyzing the heck out of everything because that is what makes her mad. She was very loving, in a girlfriend kind of way all week. Several times I just grabbed her and made her sit next to me with my arm around her and she came willingly. Some kissing too. I initiate everything but she does not resist so that is good progress. I guess some women want the men to take the initiative every time - that is okay. She got some new clothes and she put them on for me and looked awesome as always.
Sunday night, we had some fun sex and I drove her to 0rgazm, it was late and we had to go to work the next morning, but she was willing. She usually complains that it is late and she has to get some sleep when she is unhappy with me. Last night we were like boyfriend and girlfriend, she was smiling, giggling and laughing during foreplay, definitely no duty sex going on. I realize, I need to give her more cause to laugh and be happy.

I can sense that I am moving in the right direction. Just need to keep doing what I am doing, keep my temper in check and things will be good. This morning she ironed my work clothes and packed my lunch. This in addition to getting ready for work herself, and making sure the kids have breakfast and lunch ready. I'd be a real stupid fool to lose her.

Thanks to everyone in this thread, this has been most helpful.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

nirvana said:


> My wife seems to have some issues with moodiness and anger.
> 
> Yesterday, she drove back from work and took our daughter to the doctor for a checkup. I had switched jobs, so they had our old insurance card. I was on my way back from work on the train. She called me that she did not have the insurance card so I said I would text a picture of it. I did, and she got the front, but she said she wanted the back also. The back took some time to get to her for some reason and she started getting frantic and called me again. I told her to be patient. She got it after a few minutes and was able to get it approved and finish the appointment.
> 
> ...


*I know that perhaps I'm "rabbit-trailing here, but from a rational "Psychology 201" standpoint; other than for an obvious" power trip," or even to let off steam, why would a rational person choose to b!tch at other people and what possible good do they really expect to derive from the commission of such an emotional act?*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good progress. Now the next step in this transformation is, rather than just sit there silently, actively ask her for her opinion on things. Like short shelf or tall shelf, fast food or restaurant, things like that. Many women feel that men secretly and silently make their decisions without the woman's input - to have you ask her for hers would go a long way.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Good progress. Now the next step in this transformation is, rather than just sit there silently, actively ask her for her opinion on things. Like short shelf or tall shelf, fast food or restaurant, things like that. Many women feel that men secretly and silently make their decisions without the woman's input - to have you ask her for hers would go a long way.


I have been doing this all along though. I always ask her opinion on mid and big sized decisions for the family even though she wasn't knowledgeable in that area. I wonder if I had been over-sharing, since she's said sometimes that maybe I should decide by myself.

Yesterday, she came back from work and has been stressing about moving to a certain area in her job rather than where she is now. This is a step up for her and I know she can do a great job there. I immediately began to launch into a discussion on how she might approach this, and I noticed that she lost interest and began to talk to our son as I was talking. I stopped immediately and she didn't ask me to continue. Note to self: No free advice. Earlier, I would show annoyance, but yesterday I just moved on with the next thing. If she wants help, she knows where to find me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Awesome! Yes, one trick to remember about women, we want men to listen to us, but we do NOT want them to solve our problems for us. It's demeaning, and it tells us - whether it was your intention or not - that you think YOUR idea would be better than OUR idea. In other words, we are incompetent.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

My wife just called excitedly with some good news!
In my post above, I had talked about her wanting to move to this other stream of work on the business side as her career goal. Turns out, one of the people who was in that role just quit. The position is open! She called me to tell me and I encouraged her to take the risk and go for it, not to hold herself back.
What timing, we had just talked about it yesterday.

And turnera, to respond to your post above, I'll let her bring it up this evening and let her ask me what she should do. I've been guilty of it too many times.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Weekends are usually when things go south.
I am reminding myself of this so that I hold up my end of the deal (to myself).

She ran a half marathon this morning, and I congratulated her, said I was proud of her etc. Then in the afternoon I massaged her feet as they were sore. Then she wanted to go to a movie in the evening that I didn't want to go and my son didn't want to go either. For some reason she wanted to go "for the kids". Then she was being rude and pissy about it and started her usual "you don't plan anything", and "I do everything around here". I need to prepare for an interview with a company that everyone has heard about but she doesn't seem to care. 

It was hard, but I kept reminding myself to shut up and let her rave and rant. She said "I will leave you one day, you are so boring". She kept saying hurtful things and then stormed out of the house with the kids to the park. Before that she says "when I am out, go get yourself a manicure and a pedicure because all you like to do is relax all day". This kind of a-hole behavior deserves a strong response, but I just took a deep breath and did not react. Our other friends don't do anything more "fun" than what we do but she wants me to take the family "somewhere" and I cannot spend time thinking of places since we have lived in this city for 15 years and been everywhere.

Anyway that's been my weekend, dealing with boorish behavior. But I am happy that this time I did not fall into the trap she was laying out for me. Oh well. The last 12 days were good, but I did not lapse this time. I know that she is wondering why I am not responding and will up the ante.

After I am done preparing for my interview next week, I am going to go out to the park and pretend that nothing happened. 
Takes a lot of inner strength but I think I am making progress.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Awesome! Yes, one trick to remember about women, we want men to listen to us, but we do NOT want them to solve our problems for us. It's demeaning, and it tells us - whether it was your intention or not - that you think YOUR idea would be better than OUR idea. In other words, we are incompetent.


She called me on Friday during lunch time to ask me what to say when she approaches her boss. I told her exactly what to say, and she wanted me to repeat it. Then she did that at around 3pm. Boss heard her out and asked her for her resume. 

Now she is behaving as if she figured it all on her own using a lot of "I did"s and not thanking me even once.  Well, that is okay.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Try to remember there's a difference between not taking the bait and sitting there and taking abuse like a doormat.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

turnera said:


> Try to remember there's a difference between not taking the bait and sitting there and taking abuse like a doormat.


Or use the famous line "I'm sorry you feel that way" and walk away!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Try to remember there's a difference between not taking the bait and sitting there and taking abuse like a doormat.


I agree... this morning, she's in a bad mood again so is trying to bait me. If I respond, then she will escalate and make it all my fault (that is the way her logic works). She is trying to prove that she does "everything" and I do "nothing". Credit grabbing is a major trait in her family.

IT is her way to trying to get me to do her bidding, but I do what I want to do.

She completed her half marathon, so maybe feeling like a super achiever, so thinks it is okay to misbehave and act like a *****.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What I mean is you can call her out on it without making it a fight. Simply state the logic behind why you're calling her out. "I'm sure it seems to you that you do all the work, but that doesn't take into account the A, B, and C that I do every week."


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