# Wife has lost her sexual &amp; emotional connection with me



## TheLostOne (May 6, 2009)

*Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; emotional connection with me*

Hi all, first time poster here, trying to explain a 3-year long problem, so this is going to be a very long post (apologies in advance).


Background: Wife and I are both 40, each other’s real first (and so far last) partner, together 22 years, married 16 years, 3 kids – 10 yr. old, and 8 year old twins.


I am not sure where everything really started feeling not right. Our marriage has always been filled with your run of the mill arguments, nothing crazy, and not on a daily basis, but it was never a great marriage. For some reason we stuck together. Looking back it feels (for both of us) that we married young and for the wrong reasons, but for whatever reason, never ended it when we should have – early on, before kids came into the picture. In fact, we have been saying that if not for the kids, we would have gone our separate ways long time ago. However the wellbeing of the kids, and more importantly, the financial burden of a divorce is keeping us together, at least for now (until the twins reach 18).


Our marriage was never perfect (not that I think there is such a thing as a perfect marriage), nor was it horrible. It was ‘average’ – very average, and admittedly, I have a lot to do with that fact it was just average, and not a ‘good’ one. Like many husbands out there, I was one of those that assume that once you married you can kind of lay back, and let the marriage go on cruise control. I lacked the knowledge and common sense of all the things a woman and a wife expects from her man. The sense of security, love, support, etc. I was just kind of like living in my own world, where the notion of “I’m married now, no need to put any effort into the relationship” took over. That was my take on the whole thing until 2015. My wife all those years grew accustomed, and although used to make comments from time to time (why don’t you kiss me, how come you never say you love me, you never compliment me, etc.), did not seem to make a fuss over it too much. She now claims, she kind of got used to the ‘emotional abuse’ she was taking, but didn’t do anything about it. Sex was average at best for the most of our lives together, nothing to write home about… your run of the mill, x1-2/week. At some point after her second pregnancy, for a few short months, her libido improved 10-fold, and for a while, the sex was just pure awesome. I could pretty much have it whenever I wanted (or whenever she did for that matter). In short, between when we got married (2002) and until 2015, it was an ‘ok’ marriage. Not a nightmare, not an awesome one – just a very average one.


Then came 2015….


On a trip back to my homeland (where all of my family is), we were to stay at my parents’ place (she begged me to rent a place instead). My wife has had years of animosity built against my sister, most of which due to small things, which the average person would not make a big deal out of. I always thought of my wife’s aversion for my sister was over the top and exaggerated. I’m not saying my sister is a saint, but amount of dislike towards her was just uncalled for and out of proportion. When we arrived at my parents place, my wife warned me ahead of time that she will not be present in the same room with my sister. When my sister stopped by on a day of our arrival to see us, and after a quick greet, my wife retreated to the guest bedroom. 20 minutes later she comes out, and asks me to give her the phone number to the airline so she can book a flight home as soon as possible (mind you, this was on the very same day of our arrival). When I asked why, she said she had told me she will not be present in the same room with my sister, and at the same time, refuses to spend her ‘entire’ vacation locked in a room. When I told her that she was acting immature, and no one other than herself has her ‘locked’ in that room, she blew up even more. At this point the whole thing was just beyond embarrassing to me, and I had no choice but to go back out to my mom and tell her that my wife wants to leave. My mom was in tears, offended, thinking she may have done something to offend my wife, etc. My sister at the time, knew my wife had some beef with her (I had to break her these "news" ahead of our trip), offered to go into that room and ‘sort things out’ (or so I hoped). I was actually relieved, thinking she will go into that room, and like 2 adults, they will talk things through, sign a ‘peace agreement’, and everything finally, after all these years of hearing how my sister is the biggest *****, will be honky dory all over again. Boy was I wrong…. 


As my sister entered the room, my wife was on the phone with the airline. My sister pressed her to get off the phone because she wanted to talk. My wife refused, saying that she is on the phone at the moment, and my sister will have to wait. At that point, my sister lost her **** and started berating my wife with all sorts of insults. My wife stayed calm. I was in the living room, and started hearing screaming at that point, but (stupidity) decided to stay out of it, and let them sort things out. Between all the people in the living room, the TV, kids running around, it was hard to make what was being said, or who was the one yelling. After a few moments, my sister comes out of the room, and tells me that I married an unstable person and my wife needs to be medicated. Embarrassed by the whole **** show, and my wife’s inability to just let things go for the duration of the visit, I stormed into the bedroom, and told my wife that if she gets on a plane, she might as well lawyer up, because I’m done with her and her childish nonsense.


My wife couldn’t find a flight home (not at a reasonable price at least), and was forced to stay. We tried to talk things overnight (later on, she said she never felt as lonely as she did that day – abroad, without her family, and her one and only guardian – me, turning against her as well). The next day I offered my sister to stop by my parents’ place so we can sort things out once and for all, with me present in the middle, she agreed. We went outside, but again, my sister instead of staying calm and trying to talk things through, started berating my sister. At that point, my wife told my sister to STFU before things get out of hand. When my sister wouldn't stop her assault, my wife got up and started walking away, at which point my sister got behind her and pushed her. I tried to intervene, but felt helpless as I was between a rock and a hard place. It was hard for me to take sides. On one hand I had my wife who acted immaturely the night before, but certainly didn’t deserve that kind of verbal and physical assault, on the other hand, I had my sister who I don’t see for years on. Obviously I had to choose sides, and I tried to calm my wife, but it didn’t help. In her view, I was too lenient, too submissive towards my sister, and essentially sided with my sister. In other words, my lack of stronger stance against my sister, meant to my wife that I was standing with my sister.


This whole ordeal took place in May of 2015. We somehow ended that trip on a ‘decent’ note, after my wife to prove her love to me, offered to call my sister to apologize and straighten things out. I was very reluctant to give her my sister’s number, but she pressed on for it. Upon my sister picking up the phone, my sister said she had actually thought about the whole thing herself too, and that her brother should not be suffering and be made to choose sides (she had a whole text typed out and ready to be sent to my wife – right as my wife called her). And so on the last day of our stay, my sister stopped by and they finally made peace, at least superficially.


When we returned to the States, from time to time I would be reminded by my wife of my weakness and inability to stand by her during those moments. I would be told I was a crappy husband. That a wife should always be her husband’s top priority, and his family should never take priority over her. Those were things I failed to understand up until that visit. Maybe it’s because I’m so far geographically from my family that I didn’t want to offend the people I cared about so much, given the rarity of our face to face interaction. I didn’t understand why my wife had to behave like a child, locking herself in a room, and didn’t understand why the distain towards my sister was so harsh all those years. But alas, since that visit, I have learned that my wife, as stupid and as immature her action may have been, I should have taken a stronger stance against my sister. I learned the hard way that I should have shut my sister and never let her lay her hands on my wife. I admit, I was weak, and essentially the ultimate ‘Mr. Nice Guy’ – for those who read the book, know what I’m talking about.



For my birthday that year, my wife decided to prove me her worth (she didn’t need to), booked me a surprise trip to that DR. In order to coordinate that trip, she had to get in touch with one of my male colleagues at work, so he could request time off on my behalf without my knowledge. That initials back and forth about time off, turned into friendly phone chatting in the months following the trip- which I was unaware of at the time, though I had some suspicion based on some comments she made about him (more on that in a moment). 


Around April of 2016, slowly, she started having these long phone chats where she would giggle and seemed very amused whenever she was engaged in them. When I asked her one time what was so funny and who she was talking to, she said a girl-friend of hers – Jessica. A name I’ve never heard before, but didn’t think much of it. One evening as she stepped into the shower, I decided I need to see what these chats were all about, and so I picked up her phone. To my astonishment, she was talking to this ‘Jessica’ about how lonely she felt, how she hated the idea of going on a date with me on our upcoming anniversary, about how she felt lonely, wanted to be touched, etc. I was in shock, in the moment, totally forgot to check the phone number for that Jessica. I couldn’t understand why she would be talking to a woman like that (#facepalm). We went to bed, I didn’t say anything, but decided I was going to get to the bottom of this. In the middle of the night, I snuck out of bed, grabbed her phone and went to another room. Within 30 seconds she woke up, and the first words that came out of her mouth (as oppose to “why are you up” or “what’s wrong”), were “Where is my phone!?!?”. I answered point blank “In my hands”. She jumped out of bed, ran into the room I was in, grabbed the phone out of my hands, ran into the bathroom, locked herself in there, and erased the whole text conversation (not before I’m sure letting that ‘Jessica’ know that I read at least some of it). When she came out of the bathroom, she was very apologetic. I was beyond hurt, in tears, angry, confused, I felt like my world came down crashing. She saw how hurt I was, and started apologizing, trying to hug me, telling me she made a mistake, etc. as I was pushing her away in disgust,. I had a feeling she was talking to that co-worker of mine (also married +3 kids).


In the months following that incident, she continued her phone chatting with different female friends of hers, but after that incident in April, I just couldn’t let it go. Every time she would text someone, my mind started running 100mph, trying to figure out who she was talking to and about what. She would refuse to tell me who she’s talking to, claiming that her phone is her private business to which I had no rights to. That incident made me paranoid on levels I have never thought I’m capable of. I felt like I had to question every move of her, know who she was talking to every moment of the day. Needed to know who she was going out with, where, when is she is coming back. All of that questioning and snooping, put a further barrier between us. She would claim she feels suffocated, that I’m constantly in her veins, that I don’t give her any privacy. I in turned tried to explain to her that this is all her fault. That had she not been so suspicious with her phone activity, and given what I saw on her phone, I wouldn’t have a reason to snoop like that. On top of that, I’m also a believer that only those who have something to hide, act like that. I never had a problem handing her my phone for her to go through it if she felt she needed (she didn’t). Her phone on the other hand, never left her sight, in fear that I will grab it again. She would claim that her personal conversations with her female friends, where often I would be the very subject of those conversations, were none of my business.


One day in July of 2016, I logged in to her iCloud ID online and got a hold of her contacts list. To my horror, my hunch was validated. That Jessica had my co-worker’s cell number. I felt like I needed to vomit. I felt sick to my stomach. I went downstairs, but didn’t want to say anything initially, tried to digest what I just saw. As I was sitting outside on the deck, with my heart racing, and my stomach up in my throat, she came out to see what’s wrong, as I clearly appeared in distress. I tried to hold it back, not say anything, at least not at that moment. I needed some time to digest it all and come up with a way to confront of her, but she kept on pressing, wanted to know what’s wrong, and I just spilled the beans. Told her I just found out that that Jessica girl is no other than my co-worker. She said she knows nothing about technology, and not sure how Apple’s iCloud mixed up Jessica’s contact with my co-worker’s number – all of which is clearly nonsense. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back. I just couldn’t take the lying anymore. I couldn’t understand why she couldn’t just come clean, just say “we’re done. You do nothing for me, I want out of this marriage. I lost all respect for you after what happened in 2015 with your sister”. I just couldn’t stand the secrecy and the mind games. The argument got very heated, and that’s when we decided to just call it quits. We even summoned the kids, and told them that mommy and daddy will be getting a divorce. My 10 year old (8 back then) took it pretty hard, while the twins who were 5 at a time, were oblivious as to what we were trying to explain. I got in the car and took the kids to the pool, where I would spend the next couple of hours planning my next chapter of life as a divorced dad. When I came home she wanted to talk, on why things are wrong, on why she deserves a life free of snooping, etc. Basically she tried to talk us both off the ledge…



Other complains I started hearing from her as time went on, was how anti-social I’ve always been, how I don’t have friends, that I need to get a life for myself, that I need to stop focusing on her, that not all outings should be me and her alone, that it’s ok for us to make friends separately (meaning of same sex) and hang out separately. That she has a right for a life of her own, she’s allowed to have friends and social life, and that she should be able to go out with friends without being questioned about every move of hers, etc. She also said that that trip in 2015 changed her forever. That she is no longer this little ‘yes-sir’ wife of mine. That she has rediscovered herself as an independent woman. That she will no longer be following me around the house like a puppy. She also was now holding a new notion that I should be more social, make friends, go out, travel back home to my family on my own if so I wished, get a life, and stop being so dependent on her to fulfil my social needs. That I need to get a life of my own. 


I listened to all of that and didn’t disagree. I mean what man would not want to go have fun with his buddies, or go on a golf trip, or whatever, without having to explain or justify his social needs to his wife. I also didn’t mind one bit her social time with her friends. I just wanted reassurance that nothing foul was going on with other man. I wasn’t against her going out with friends, or talking/chatting on her phone. I just wanted reassurance on some levels, internally, that nothing foul was going on. I was at a point where if she had found someone else, that’s fine, just come clean, so we can go our merry ways…I hated being lied to (or so I felt), the cheating games, etc. And although she kept on reassuring me that nothing was going on with anyone, she also became very impatient with my nagging, need for such reassurance, and became very hostile whenever I inquired about her whereabouts or her phone usage. 


Marriage for us turned into a mundane ordeal. We would run the house like business partners. Deal with the kids and other daily chores and home-related discussions, but there was zero love between us. We still slept in the same bed, but there was nothing emotionally there, sex has gone out the window, and she claims that was as a result of both her libido gone, and her loss of respect for me. Said she had lost the emotional connection to me and had nothing to give me emotionally and sexually.


It was around that time, and to my friend’s suggestion (who had just gone through a divorce himself), I picked up “The Divorce Remedy” by Michele Weiner Davis. It was a great book that taught me that I don’t need 2 to Tango, and that in order to turn things around, I need to start looking at the mirror and finding what I could and should do to change about myself, which in turn will draw and attract my wife back to me. I read some other great books after that like “No more Mr. Nice Guy”, “5 Languages of Love”, and some others, all of which had taught me that if I want her back, I need to let go. Get a life of my own.


In Sept. of 2016 (2 months after that blowout and divorce discussion), I went back to see my family. I went on my own, she was perfectly ok with me going on vacation by myself, and even condoned it. Saying I should be able to see my family as much as I want to. While there, again, we started arguing again from over 6000 miles apart. I made it clear to her that I will not be forced to disconnect or severe ties with family members after she had asked me to cut ties with my sister. Deep down, she felt that although SHE had made peace with my sister, I was still choosing my family over her. I made it clear that not her, nor any other woman will come between me and my family. I explained that I had come to my senses after that 2015 trip, that I realized I was wrong in that I didn’t take a stronger stance against my sister, and that I should have sided with my wife. However, none of that had to do with severing my ties with family members, and she needed to accept it – she did. We made peace over the phone, and by the time my trip was over, we couldn’t wait to see each other. I landed back, and first thing she did was eagerly take me upstairs to the bedroom. We had sex for the first time in months, and nearly 2 months after we had discussed divorce, during which she told me she doesn’t want to be touched by me. So there’s that…


Things were good for a few weeks, sex was back in the picture, and things finally felt like we are back on course to fix this marriage and bring it back to a place that’s even better than it was. However it didn’t take long before I slipped, and made some stupid comment about her sister, and things started falling apart between us again.


In the time since, we have had ups and downs in the marriage, where downs felt like there’s no hope to this marriage, and the only things keeping us together are the kids and the financial obstacle of a divorce. The up days are just friendly, courtesy, and general peace around the house, but there is ZERO emotional connection, zero touch, and zero sex. The last time we had sex was Feb. 2017 – almost a year and a half ago! and even that occurrence came out of the blue, and initiated by her out of nowhere. That was the last time she laid hands on me. These days there is not even a kiss. In the rare occasion where a kiss is expected (birthday gift, some extremely nice gesture, etc.), it’s a peck on the cheek, if that… A kiss on the lips is taboo as far as she’s concerned. 


Granted in the last couple of years, she has had other things on her mind, she quit her main workplace, quit another job, which was extremely hard emotionally and mentally for her, as she’s a workaholic, and sitting at home doing nothing is really taking a mental toll on her. We have also been trying to sell our house and move to a better town with better schools for the kids – that hasn’t gone as we hoped, and so that’s another thing that has been on her mind. As I mentioned in the beginning, she turned 40 this year, and so I’m not sure how much her age may play a role in her moodiness and quest for self-fulfillment. I’m not sure if its hormonal change, midlife crisis, etc., or all of the above that play a role in that as well. And so between all the wrongs I did in our earlier years together (lack of attention and affection), that trip to my home country that snapped everything out of place for her towards me, her current unemployment situation, the house not moving, all have made her into this affectionless person. She still seems happy when we are in the company of friends and people, she is still a great mom to our kids, and she is still very nice and cordial towards me, but the physical and emotional connection is gone – despite of me trying my best to become the independent, self-sufficient, secure, husband and father to her kids, she deserves. My new me would have made her climb all over me, but with everything that happened since that trip in 2015, I feel like no matter what I do, I have lost her for good. When I bring up the lack of affection and sex life, she says she doesn’t know when or if she’ll ever feel emotionally connected to me again. All she knows is that right now, she feels nothing towards me.


If in the past the kids’ best interest kept me in this marriage, I feel like the financial aspect is now the only thing keep us together. I’m at a point where I can’t take it anymore like this. As far as I am concerned, I have addressed every issue she had with me in the past, except for the affection, which I would love to give her now, but she doesn’t want take it from me at this point. It’s as if it’s too little, too late. If you had a view into our daily life, you’d see a couple that interacts perfectly normal, with the only thing missing is sex and affection. Whenever I bring up the sex topic (and I rarely if at all do these days), she says “Too bad, I don’t want it, not with you, not with anyone”, my desire to have sex has been turned off, and I can’t even kiss or touch you, because I feel zero connection with you. When I say “But what about MY needs?” her answer is “go find someone to fulfill your needs with”. I have no idea if she is serious and candid with that comment, but I have zero intention of even trying something like that. I take marriage very seriously, and as long as I am married to my wife, an affair is out of the question for me. I refuse to come out the bad guy here, because no doubt she will file for divorce if that ever happened. She knows that I am not the person to cheat, so I think she feels comfortable making these kinds of comments, knowing I will never actually go and cheat on her with another woman. 


With the lack of sex and emotional connection, I try my best to keep a happy and friendly face around her, and be a nice person to live with, as does she. We seem to have a civilized and pleasant household. I make an effort to spend time with the kids, I do my fair share around my house with regards to chores, and my wife will be the first one to admit that from that aspect, she has no complaints about me. Everything seems fine between us, except for the emotional, affectionate, and sexual connections – those are nonexistent. I am torn between trying to get that connection back by all means (I enjoy the challenge), yet on the other hand, afraid all I’m doing is wasting my years, when I could find someone else for myself. I don’t come from a family where divorce is prevalent. As a matter of fact there are zero divorces on my side of the family, so the whole concept is very foreign to me. I don’t want the kids to think badly of me (dad left us). I really want to prove my wife that I am the guy she deserves, despite of everything that has happened in the past, and the crappy husband I used to be. I used to take her for granted, and I no longer do. The problem is she doesn’t seem to be interested in finding out that I really changed. She says she sees change, but the sex part is not there for her. She still believes that in my head I put my family above her, which is not the case. I just can’t prove it to her in any meaningful way. 



My whole life I used to be a quitter…. Was a very average kid and young adult. I don’t want my marriage to turn into yet another average chapter of my life, or worse – a completely failed chapter (divorce). For once in my life, I want to take on a challenge and conquer it. It’s been 3 years since my marriage bubble exploded in my face, and I have done a lot of growing internally, and have fixed and patched many things that were screwed up with me as a husband early on (anger issues, listening skills, lack of attention, lack of affection, etc.). Our daily life and interaction is good these days (though she claims our communications skills still lack), if I could only bring sex and affection into our lives, I will feel whole. I’m looking for some ideas and advice on how to get my wife to reconnect emotionally again with me (or whether you guys think that ship has sailed), so we can reignite the sexual spark between us. I want a wife, not a roommate….



Any ideas how to get her to attract back to me, will be greatly appreciated! Really hoping to hear that I should just stick with what I’ve been doing, and let time do its thing. 


Thank you for reading.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

So you ignored and neglected your wife for years, belittled her feelings, and took your sister's side against her.

And your frustrated that she has checked out.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I'm surprised she hasn't divorced you. You didn't listen when she told you her needs like affection kissing being told she is loved. 

Then you demonstrated beyond all doubt that you don't value her. 

Now because you do some dishes she is supposed to want to have sex?

I'm not sure how you come back from your actions of many many years.

And during the time you are trying to show her you are differ me you slip up and show her not really.

So do you actually love her , want her, cherish her? Or do you simply want sex and to not go through the inconvenience of a divorce. Thing is she can probably tell or suspect it's the latter. 

I wish I had an answer but I really don't many women once they give up on a man then that's it. They don't flip the switch back on because what it took for them to switch it off and give up was too painful to go through again.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp;amp;amp; emotional connection with me*

So, am I the only one that suspects Mrs OP is showing some rather alarming BPD symptoms? It does not absolve him of his behaviors but makes things a bit more complicated.

Obviously Mr OP didn't exactly have perfect behavior, but a few snippets of the story show an individual that isn't the greatest when it comes to self regulation of emotions...


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

When a woman is neglected and dismissed and lonely for years....something happens.

I was bubbly and easygoing. After a decade in my previous marriage, I was worn down and hopeless. There were likely times I didnt self regulate either. In fact, my ex suggested BPD at one point. Once divorced, I gradually became myself again. And my current, attentive husband thinks I'm marvelous.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp;amp; emotional connection with me*

Once you damage a woman as you have you can not ever fully repair that, they will carry it from now on. To even get back to a better place takes twice as long as it took to damage them. 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

john117 said:


> So, am I the only one that suspects Mrs OP is showing some rather alarming BPD symptoms? It does not absolve him of his behaviors but makes things a bit more complicated.
> 
> Obviously Mr OP didn't exactly have perfect behavior, but a few snippets of the story show an individual that isn't the greatest when it comes to self regulation of emotions...


I'm not BPD expert but it certainly a sign of restraint not exploding when sister is verbally and physically assaulting you.

I suspect if OP is aware of this much neglect on his part the wife would have 10x that to share. Wife asked to stay somewhere other than family and made it known she was uncomfortable with sister. She probably had similar issues in the past which hubby probably should have been aware if he was pay attention but just like other requests fell on deaf ears because he didn't want to deal with discomfort around his family so he ignored it. Making his wife's discomfort much more than it needed to be. 

That makes wife BPD?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

It's a common mistake to try and "diagnose" someone based solely on a period of duress. Incorrect, but common.


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## MapMan (Dec 11, 2015)

You need to take action. Watch Athol explain it in his videos and then buy the book if you want the best chance


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

The sad thing is that she doesn't seem to realise that having sex actually brings that emotional connection. 

One thing that stood out to me is that she warned you that she didnt want to stay with your mother when you went to stay. When a woman says something like that its for a reason.
When we went to OZ 12 years ago to visited my MIL, she pressured my husband to get us to stay with her. I know that wasn't going to work, and I made sure that we stayed separately. I was SO glad that we did, she made our time there a misery. Had we been staying with her I am not sure how we would have coped. 

So listen to her, what she says is for a reason.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

MapMan said:


> You need to take action. Watch Athol explain it in his videos and then buy the book if you want the best chance


Did you read his opening post in full?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp;amp; emotional connection with me*



TheLostOne said:


> Any ideas how to get her to attract back to me, will be greatly appreciated! Really hoping to hear that I should just stick with what I’ve been doing, and let time do its thing.


So you now strive to be the man that she is attracted to? First step is to acknowledge that most men have no idea what a woman wants, so what ever it is you think will work will likely have no effect what so ever. It is more likely to be counterproductive. 

I would suggest instead you just focus on being true to yourself. If that means having a mid-life crisis to rediscover yourself, try going back to college.... 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp;amp; emotional connection with me*



TheLostOne said:


> Marriage for us turned into a mundane ordeal. We would run the house like business partners. Deal with the kids and other daily chores and home-related discussions, but there was zero love between us. We still slept in the same bed, but there was nothing emotionally there, sex has gone out the window, and *she claims that was as a result of both her libido gone, and her loss of respect for me. Said she had lost the emotional connection to me and had nothing to give me emotionally and sexually.*
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


The items in bold indicate a woman totally checked out of the marriage.

I also see some red flags. What was her family of origin like?




TheLostOne said:


> ...When I say “But what about MY needs?” her answer is “go find someone to fulfill your needs with”. I have no idea if she is serious and candid with that comment, but I have zero intention of even trying something like that.


Next time tell her "ok", pack your bag and leave for a week.




TheLostOne said:


> I take marriage very seriously, and as long as I am married to my wife, an affair is out of the question for me. I refuse to come out the bad guy here, because no doubt she will file for divorce if that ever happened. She knows that I am not the person to cheat, so I think she feels comfortable making these kinds of comments, knowing I will never actually go and cheat on her with another woman.


Time to make her feel uncomfortable. She is a cheater herself, may be cheating now and is pretty much checked out so she may not really care anyway.



TheLostOne said:


> With the lack of sex and emotional connection, I try my best to keep a happy and friendly face around her, and be a nice person to live with, as does she. We seem to have a civilized and pleasant household. I make an effort to spend time with the kids, I do my fair share around my house with regards to chores, and my wife will be the first one to admit that from that aspect, she has no complaints about me. Everything seems fine between us, except for the emotional, affectionate, and sexual connections – those are nonexistent. I am torn between trying to get that connection back by all means (I enjoy the challenge), yet on the other hand, afraid all I’m doing is wasting my years, when I could find someone else for myself. I don’t come from a family where divorce is prevalent. As a matter of fact there are zero divorces on my side of the family, so the whole concept is very foreign to me. I don’t want the kids to think badly of me (dad left us). I really want to prove my wife that I am the guy she deserves, despite of everything that has happened in the past, and the crappy husband I used to be. I used to take her for granted, and I no longer do. The problem is she doesn’t seem to be interested in finding out that I really changed. She says she sees change, but the sex part is not there for her. She still believes that in my head I put my family above her, which is not the case. I just can’t prove it to her in any meaningful way.
> 
> My whole life I used to be a quitter…. Was a very average kid and young adult. I don’t want my marriage to turn into yet another average chapter of my life, or worse – a completely failed chapter (divorce). For once in my life, I want to take on a challenge and conquer it. It’s been 3 years since my marriage bubble exploded in my face, and I have done a lot of growing internally, and have fixed and patched many things that were screwed up with me as a husband early on (anger issues, listening skills, lack of attention, lack of affection, etc.). Our daily life and interaction is good these days (though she claims our communications skills still lack), if I could only bring sex and affection into our lives, I will feel whole. I’m looking for some ideas and advice on how to get my wife to reconnect emotionally again with me (or whether you guys think that ship has sailed), so we can reignite the sexual spark between us. I want a wife, not a roommate….


You weren't a perfect H, but that doesn't justify what she is doing. That said, it takes two to make a marriage, and you can't make her change. If she isn't going to engage with you then you need to prepare yourself for a divorce.

Have you guys seen a marriage counselor?


----------



## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Good grief that was long. 

I did not even have to read all of it though. 

You are a weak man, you neglected her, she had and affair and if she did not sleep with the one you know about, she slept with someone else. 

She has issues that you will never understand and she probably does not either. 

Her affair is not your fault, that is on her. But the neglect is your issue. 

Here is the bottom line, You got complacent and lazy, no wonder she has lost all desire and respect for you. 

After you get divorced and if you get married again, understand this. You wife/partner that you should love, comes before everyone. Before other women, before family, before friends. 

When you were so weak with your family, that did it for her, right then she was done. It does not matter if she was right or wrong, you have to stand with her, and not be a puss. 

If she was wrong then you have a talk with her, and again, not be a puss. 

Just move on, I don't think anyone could save this...


----------



## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Man, that was a long OP. You're very weak dude. She has no respect for you. Why did your wife hate your sister so much? Could your sister have some dirt on her?

I believe your wife was having an affair. That's why she didn't want you to see her phone. It was not a woman. That's the name she put on the contact to throw you off. 

If you want to try to salvage this marriage, you need to develop as a man. Start doing things to better yourself and become more self- reliant. Your wife wants you to do these things so she can have more free time to do who knows what. 

I too highly recommend Married Man Sex Life Primer. It's a guide for you to become a better man and there by a more desirable husband. Even if it doesn't work with her, it can guide you to being a better man for the next woman.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> It's a common mistake to try and "diagnose" someone based solely on a period of duress. Incorrect, but common.


Au contraire. It's the best time.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

john117 said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > It's a common mistake to try and "diagnose" someone based solely on a period of duress. Incorrect, but common.
> ...


Actually no, its not.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> Actually no, its not.


If you say so 

High functioning BPD's are very good in blending in when they're not experiencing ups or downs. It's only when things don't go as expected that they blow up like 4th of July fireworks. This inability to produce appropriate emotional responses to challenges is quite the hallmark of the disorder, hence the "walk on eggshells" mantra.

In the specific case, we have no information about, for example, the preagreed upon travel arrangements, prevailing culture, and a myriad of other unknowns. 

If I'm hosting someone and their family in my house - even if it's my own child - for a couple weeks, they're in no condition to make demands that one of my family members disappear. It snowballs from there.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

anastasia6 said:


> I'm not BPD expert but it certainly a sign of restraint not exploding when sister is verbally and physically assaulting you.
> 
> I suspect if OP is aware of this much neglect on his part the wife would have 10x that to share. Wife asked to stay somewhere other than family and made it known she was uncomfortable with sister. She probably had similar issues in the past which hubby probably should have been aware if he was pay attention but just like other requests fell on deaf ears because he didn't want to deal with discomfort around his family so he ignored it. Making his wife's discomfort much more than it needed to be.
> 
> That makes wife BPD?


- Wife agreed to go to Farawaystan with the understanding that they stay with his family. 

- Wife did not establish a precondition about the sister.

- So, she throws a fit and calls Ryanair to get her out of this hole... 

To me, the previous behaviors and this and the follow up behaviors suggest that a mental health issue is worth investigating, whether NPD, BPD, or bipolar.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

john117 said:


> - Wife agreed to go to Farawaystan with the understanding that they stay with his family.
> 
> - Wife did not establish a precondition about the sister.
> 
> ...


I agree with you pointing this one out @john117 as I too was stunned by the sudden seemingly unregulated shifts in behavior regarding the sister.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

1. you are a weak excuse for a husband

2. You let your wife down big time when she was in a foreign land with your family who abused her

3 You let the abuse happen, did not intervene, there is no coming back from that one. You did side with your sister, how could you let your sister be so abusive and not do anything about it? YOu didn't want to offend your sister, but it was ok to offend and hurt your wife? You don't deserve your wife.

4. You expected her to make it up to you and show her love, why the hell should she? YOu should be on your knees asking for her forgiveness for being weak and useless as a H

5. She has lost all respect for your, rightfully so. A wife expects her H to put her above all and protect her, you FAILED big time

6. No wonder she feels lonely in the marriage, you do not have her back, she wants to be appreciated and protected, she is not getting that from you

7. Your wife is not going through menopause or anything, you have lost her because now she knows she cannot trust you with her heart, you showed her you were, you will put her last and trample all over her emotions, if it suits you.

8. She realised in 2015, she cannot rely on you anymore, hence the 'independent woman'


Sorry but you brought all of this on yourself. Women take a lot of crap from those they love, but once you push them over the edge, they lose respect for you, it is very very hard to come back from that and there will always be a part of themselves you will never have, they will go through the motions, put on a good show too. Unless you do a complete transformation, (I doubt you will as you sound weak and not a leader), she may stay with you for the kids, but she believed what she saw, and she was right to.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp;amp;amp; emotional connection with me*



john117 said:


> So, am I the only one that suspects Mrs OP is showing some rather alarming BPD symptoms? It does not absolve him of his behaviors but makes things a bit more complicated.
> 
> Obviously Mr OP didn't exactly have perfect behavior, but a few snippets of the story show an individual that isn't the greatest when it comes to self regulation of emotions...


Based on what info really. She and his sister obviously have some beef which has not been fully clarified here. If my insulting Brother in law wanted us to go visit, I would also refuse to because he has said some awful stuff to me in the past and I will never be his friend. That is Mrs OP's prerogative, it doesn't mean she is BP. Maybe she doesn't want to be treated like ****.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> The sad thing is that she doesn't seem to realise that having sex actually brings that emotional connection.
> 
> One thing that stood out to me is that she warned you that she didnt want to stay with your mother when you went to stay. When a woman says something like that its for a reason.
> When we went to OZ 12 years ago to visited my MIL, she pressured my husband to get us to stay with her. I know that wasn't going to work, and I made sure that we stayed separately. I was SO glad that we did, she made our time there a misery. Had we been staying with her I am not sure how we would have coped.
> ...


She probably doesn't want to have sex with someone she doesn't trust or respect. Would you have sex with your husband if you didn't trust him with your heart? He threw her heart in his pocket with his keys and was more concerned with his sister's heart that his wifes, that says it all, then she ought to have sex with that?


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; emotional connection with me*



aine said:


> Based on what info really. She and his sister obviously have some beef which has not been fully clarified here. If my insulting Brother in law wanted us to go visit, I would also refuse to because he has said some awful stuff to me in the past and I will never be his friend. That is Mrs OP's prerogative, it doesn't mean she is BP. Maybe she doesn't want to be treated like ****.


If the beef was present why did she agree to the arrangements? They're both at fault here.... 

If I learned two things after marriage to a BPD they are:

- try to keep life simple and conflict free to have any chance of peace

- eventually even that stops working

The BPD dynamic is remarkably strong. Most people don't understand how strong. It doesn't absolve him regardless.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

john117 said:


> aine said:
> 
> 
> > Based on what info really. She and his sister obviously have some beef which has not been fully clarified here. If my insulting Brother in law wanted us to go visit, I would also refuse to because he has said some awful stuff to me in the past and I will never be his friend. That is Mrs OP's prerogative, it doesn't mean she is BP. Maybe she doesn't want to be treated like ****.
> ...


How do we know she agreed? It's more likely she just caved to his badgering. I know BPD. I do NOT see that here.

Amazing how resistant some people are to anything being a man's fault. And before you turn that around, read ALL my posts. I can be plenty tough on women.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> How do we know she agreed? It's more likely she just caved to his badgering. I know BPD. I do NOT see that here.
> 
> Amazing how resistant some people are to anything being a man's fault. And before you turn that around, read ALL my posts. I can be plenty tough on women.


I'm going by what he posted. I would think he would have mentioned it as an important part of the story. 

"Caved in" is in the eye of the beholder. Either she agreed, negotiated, or she was kidnapped.

I said that much of the issues are on him, but a wreck is a wreck regardless. 

Inability to regulate emotions is not promising regardless of the reason for the upheaval. 

Like with my wife, incidentally, BPD is not the cause of the issues, it's simply the reason a lot of things can't improve.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Read the OP!! The wife begged him to rent a place to stay instead of staying with the family. He says she begged. He didn't care. She also pre informed OP that she would not be in the same room as the sister during the trip. Sister came in, wife kept to her boundary and left the room herself and went into a bedroom. THE SISTER followed her in and proceeded to yell at her. OP did nothing about it.

Wow.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

john117 said:


> Like with my wife, incidentally, BPD is not the cause of the issues, it's simply the reason a lot of things can't improve.


 @john117 since we are all on the diagnoses bandwagon here, I'm going to toss this out there... The wife blew up and become highly unstable upon traveling to the OP's homeland. My wife is a foreigner and I have experience in what it is like to travel a great distance to go and stay with a spouse's family...

I am guessing the wife is a borderline diabetic that becomes highly agitated when her blood sugars become low. All foreign foods taste like crap as all people grow up with a taste for their own culture. Travel outside of the country and your digestion also takes a nosedive as foreign/incompatible flora are inevitably introduced into your diet. The combination of being hungry, feeling like your indigestion is the equivalent of being beaten by a baseball bat in the abdomen, and having a sister in law that wants to berate you... I strongly feel the combination of those things could easily induce a diabetic state in which one will become so challenged with low blood sugars that it could alter their emotional state!

Take someone with traits of BDP, remove them from their culture, and at the same time suddenly drop their blood sugars, well your probably going to witness an unforgettable WTF moment of emotional instability!


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## TheLostOne (May 6, 2009)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; emotional connection with me*

Thanks everyone for the input. I will be back later on today to address each and every comment. Appreciate!


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I think time has already done its thing. Sounds like way too many years of neglect topped off with you not taking her side and protecting her from your sister, not not once but _twice_ in a row. She had already told you that she didn't want to stay with your family, yet that's where you made her stay. Then alllllllll that crap transpired. You know how badly you screwed all that up so no point rehashing it, but yes, that trip put all the nails in the coffin. 

I would bring home the divorce papers, and let her see you filling them out. See how the reaction goes. Maybe it will jolt her, but I think the fix would be temporary if there was one. Sorry dude, when women are done, we are done.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Ahh, I see we have all fallen to the two camps. He neglected and she cheated. Or the He's weak and she's lonely....


Either way. Stick a fork in it. This marriage is done. And since this is an international deal...I am betting the children will be around a single parent for the duration. Sad.


As for OP, counselling would help in determining your growth and resolving your past issues. It may give some comfort for the times ahead with the divorce. As for the infidelity of the stbxw...Forget it. Why bother. Just know that she checked out years earlier, and she was a coward to let this relationship continue in light of children and such....Time to move on and find happiness elsewhere....


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; emotional connection with me*

Y'all need to focus on the cultural aspect a bit. If they're both from the same country obviously not an issue, but if he's from Slovenia and she's from Kansas City, things could be dicy regardless.

As Santa said, true, long travel is stressing, tho unless you're traveling to the UK ethnic food is generally good  just kidding. But we're all adults here so it's not a stretch to say that adults - both sides - don't act like this.

Personally I think too much water has gone under the bridge so it's not really anything worth saving. Regardless of amateur or professional diagnosis, adults are expected to keep their emotions in check. The guy's history hasn't been stellar either, so between the two of them it's better they find some arrangement for parenting and give it a rest otherwise.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Au, so you dont have to care for your wife if you're from certain countries. It's a cultural thing.

And she's mentally ill.

Okey dokey.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp; emotional connection with me*



personofinterest said:


> Au, so you dont have to care for your wife if you're from certain countries. It's a cultural thing.
> 
> And she's mentally ill.
> 
> Okey dokey.


Epic lolz.

What I'm saying is:

- the dynamic of cross culture marriage has a lot of things to watch for, things you or your partner may not know about each other because you don't understand their culture's dynamic, and so on. IT DOES NOT GIVE A HALL PASS. It merely masks a number of things that would be noticeable otherwise, and alters expectations.

- Mental illness is quite prevalent, much as we want to rugsweep it. My s-wife's family deserve to be in the cover of the DSM-IV for example. 

- In itself, neither issue is insurmountable. Americans get married to non Americans all the time, and the divorce rate isn't too bad tho higher as per http://www.sheknows.com/community/love/latest-statistics-divorce-rates-among-interracial-marriages

- the problem is that cultural differences often mask warning flags or symptoms, you miss out on "background checks" of seeing your partner interact with their close family, or, any notion of counseling or therapy is met with a solid Nyet. 

- The more the difference in cultural aspects the higher the risk. You basically remove a common frame of reference for anything. 

It took me a while to figure a lot of this out, being a poor European guy married to a ruling class Central Asian lady for a few decades. Her BPD wasn't the issue per se, not any more than my ADHD  but after months of counseling and 35 years we agreed to go our ways and are now separated.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

I read the entire OP but not much of the responses. My useless advice is that she is a different woman now than who you used to know. You can't win her back as that woman is no longer. The only chance you have now is to win over the affection and attraction of the woman she is today. Obviously, you can't do that by being the man you used to be. You've basically entered the dating world with her as your top prize and she doesn't even know who you are. Now get your stuff together and become a man that you can respect and admire and then, if she has anything left in her that still has an ounce of feeling for you, she may fall for this respectable and admirable you. This is not a guarantee but your best chance in my opinion. 

Kudos to you for typing all that out, Yeah you've been a less than ideal husband and you know that. No need for me to beat on you for that. You are suffering plenty of consequences for that action. You sound like you want to be a better man and that will benefit everyone in your life. You have a laundry list of flaws/faults that you are aware of. Don't beat on yourself for those things but focus on improving that part of yourself. It's how we grow. Peace brother and I wish you luck.


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## TheLostOne (May 6, 2009)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp; emotional connection with me*

Thanks all, I will address each and every post here, and provide further color to draw a more detailed and accurate picture of how things are. My original post was purposely put out with emphasis on the bad things in me. I didn’t want to sound like I’m blaming everything on my wife. With that said, certainly, my wife herself is not perfect, and generally speaking, not an easy person to deal with (she admits it all the time). 
And so, without further ado…



personofinterest said:


> So you ignored and neglected your wife for years, belittled her feelings, and took your sister's side against her.
> And your frustrated that she has checked out.


I am not frustrated that she has checked out. I know very well her reasons. I’m just trying to get a general consensus on what my options and chances in this situation. Plus, there is nothing I can do to wind time back and fix my mistakes. I’ve spent the last 3 years doing a lot of soul searching, self-improvement, and growing. I may have been a pathetic husband in the past, but not anymore. I have made many strides and improvement, and I am proud to be the new me. I can’t fix the past, I can only learn and improve for the future.



anastasia6 said:


> I'm surprised she hasn't divorced you. You didn't listen when she told you her needs like affection kissing being told she is loved.


Fair statement, and I can’t speak for her as to why she chose to stick around. Like I said, both of us married very young and early. Our relationship was premature and neither one of us had any prior experience in other relationships. Maybe that’s the reason why we also lacked the knowledge and common sense to call it quits early on.



anastasia6 said:


> Then you demonstrated beyond all doubt that you don't value her.


Yes, I’m aware of that.



anastasia6 said:


> Now because you do some dishes she is supposed to want to have sex?


I don’t do ‘some dishes’ now. I have always been an equal partner in our household. I didn’t mention that point to make it seem like I’m doing these things now in order to get laid. I made that point to show that although I was a crappy husband from an emotional standpoint, I was a good husband in other areas, like household stuff. I was trying to provide as much details as possible. I wanted to explain that even though I was a jerk in terms of how I treated her, it didn’t compound or translate directly into other areas like household stuff. I've always been a good household husband. That has nothing to do with my self-improvements now, nor trying to get her to have sex with me.



anastasia6 said:


> So do you actually love her , want her, cherish her? Or do you simply want sex and to not go through the inconvenience of a divorce. Thing is she can probably tell or suspect it's the latter.


I DO lover her, want, and cherish her. I’m not pretending anything, I’m not an actor, and I don’t do phony BS. I hate fake people. I am genuinely trying to win her back. If not her, then the next woman in my life. I have improved myself FOR myself, and so she can be the beneficiary. I’ve made mistakes in the past, I was weak, I was a crappy person. But I’m human, and I’m trying to own to my mistakes. If she doesn’t want to accept the new me, that’s more than fair. I’m not here posting out of frustration towards her. I’m here merely asking what my chances are, and what can I do better to improve those chances. I’m doing it because saving this marriage is important to me, not because I want to get laid. If the latter was the case, I would have filed for divorce and/or cheated long time ago. I want her, not anyone else.



anastasia6 said:


> I wish I had an answer but I really don't many women once they give up on a man then that's it. They don't flip the switch back on because what it took for them to switch it off and give up was too painful to go through again.


Fair enough. For the sake of my kids and my wife, I hope to come back one day and prove your otherwise, but your feedback is greatly appreciated.



john117 said:


> So, am I the only one that suspects Mrs OP is showing some rather alarming BPD symptoms? It does not absolve him of his behaviors but makes things a bit more complicated.
> Obviously Mr OP didn't exactly have perfect behavior, but a few snippets of the story show an individual that isn't the greatest when it comes to self regulation of emotions...


She will be the first one to admit she is not the easiest person to get along with. She tends to hold grudges over the smallest things, does not care to what people think of her or her actions, etc. With that said, again, her character traits has nothing to do with what I did.



personofinterest said:


> When a woman is neglected and dismissed and lonely for years....something happens.
> I was bubbly and easygoing. After a decade in my previous marriage, I was worn down and hopeless. There were likely times I didnt self regulate either. In fact, my ex suggested BPD at one point. Once divorced, I gradually became myself again. And my current, attentive husband thinks I'm marvelous.





Sbrown said:


> Once you damage a woman as you have you can not ever fully repair that, they will carry it from now on. To even get back to a better place takes twice as long as it took to damage them.


I really and sincerely hope I can make this an outlier and win her back. For once in my life, I truly need to come out on the winning side of things.



anastasia6 said:


> I'm not BPD expert but it certainly a sign of restraint not exploding when sister is verbally and physically assaulting you.


Correct, I must say that she kept her cool, and as a hot head (or former hot headed person), I can appreciate it.



anastasia6 said:


> I suspect if OP is aware of this much neglect on his part the wife would have 10x that to share. Wife asked to stay somewhere other than family and made it known she was uncomfortable with sister. She probably had similar issues in the past which hubby probably should have been aware if he was pay attention but just like other requests fell on deaf ears because he didn't want to deal with discomfort around his family so he ignored it. Making his wife's discomfort much more than it needed to be.
> That makes wife BPD?


Although I do still think her reasons for wanting to stay elsewhere are still ridiculous, I now know that I should have just granted her wish, regardless of how immature her reasons were, because in the long run, the price I ended up paying was much higher.



MapMan said:


> You need to take action. Watch Athol explain it in his videos and then buy the book if you want the best chance


Thanks, without watching it yet, it sounds more like a general primer on how to get her into bed, but for me it’s more than the sex part that’s missing. I miss the emotional and basic physical affection parts. I just want to win her over. 



Diana7 said:


> The sad thing is that she doesn't seem to realise that having sex actually brings that emotional connection.
> One thing that stood out to me is that she warned you that she didnt want to stay with your mother when you went to stay. When a woman says something like that its for a reason.


Believe me, lesson learned.



badsanta said:


> So you now strive to be the man that she is attracted to? First step is to acknowledge that most men have no idea what a woman wants, so what ever it is you think will work will likely have no effect what so ever. It is more likely to be counterproductive.
> I would suggest instead you just focus on being true to yourself. If that means having a mid-life crisis to rediscover yourself, try going back to college....
> Cheers,
> Badsanta


Thanks, I’m not looking to reinvent myself in terms of some midlife transformation where I need to change careers. I’m just learning to be the strong, independent, confident, loving and supporting husband she deserves. College is not the answer. I have a good paying job and a great career I’m happy with. Just need to gauge what else, if anything, I can do to resurrect this marriage.



Tron said:


> The items in bold indicate a woman totally checked out of the marriage.


It sure does, I won’t deny it. I’m just trying my best to have her check back into the marriage, if at all possible. 



Tron said:


> I also see some red flags. What was her family of origin like?


Without going into too many revealing details, our backgrounds are the same. Our parents are from the same part of the world. We were both born in the same country (western/developed), and both of us have lived here in the States for many years. Both of us American citizens, and neither one of us has any plans to go back. I have spent close to half of my life here in the States, and she has spent 3 decades here. So for all intents and purposes, our backgrounds are the same, and we both consider ourselves Americans (with European roots).



Tron said:


> Next time tell her "ok", pack your bag and leave for a week.


I can’t, unless I plan to go full steam ahead with it, which I don’t. extramarital affair is a big no-no for me. And bluffing it is a pointless and counterproductive to what I’m trying to do here.



Tron said:


> Time to make her feel uncomfortable. She is a cheater herself, may be cheating now and is pretty much checked out so she may not really care anyway.


She is not cheating on me now (she doesn’t go anywhere), and the emotional affair she had, is in the books. Just like I can’t change my past, I can’t keep on holding it against her. That won’t do any good. As part of my growing, I have learned to let things go, and move on. No point in holding a grudge or keep on bringing it up. Part of my growing was to learn to give her space, and stop questioning every move of hers. I have stopped asking her where she goes (not that she goes out much, if at all), why she’s on the phone so much, or who is she talking to. I’ve learned that these questions and inquiries will make things worse. She wanted space, and so I’m giving it to her. I’m trying to show her that I’m not the needy and insecure husband I used to be.



Tron said:


> You weren't a perfect H, but that doesn't justify what she is doing. That said, it takes two to make a marriage, and you can't make her change. If she isn't going to engage with you then you need to prepare yourself for a divorce.


Right now, I’m not standing here trying to beg her to fix the marriage. Right now I’m trying to fix myself and have been fixing myself for the past 3 years (it’s a long process). My hope is that with time, she will rediscover her new husband.



BluesPower said:


> Good grief that was long.
> I did not even have to read all of it though.
> You are a weak man, you neglected her, she had and affair and if she did not sleep with the one you know about, she slept with someone else.


With all due respect, you make a lot of assumptions with not enough knowledge, I mean you couldn’t even read the whole post... 



BluesPower said:


> She has issues that you will never understand and she probably does not either.


Yes, me being just one of them. Others include employment status, housing markets, investments, etc. It’s all compounded.



BluesPower said:


> Her affair is not your fault, that is on her. But the neglect is your issue.


No doubt, 100% my fault



BluesPower said:


> Here is the bottom line, You got complacent and lazy, no wonder she has lost all desire and respect for you.
> After you get divorced and if you get married again, understand this. You wife/partner that you should love, comes before everyone. Before other women, before family, before friends.


Hopefully I don’t get divorced, but lesson learned regardless.



BluesPower said:


> When you were so weak with your family, that did it for her, right then she was done. It does not matter if she was right or wrong, you have to stand with her, and not be a puss.
> If she was wrong then you have a talk with her, and again, not be a puss.
> Just move on, I don't think anyone could save this...


Easier said than done. Kids and financial obligations make it a tad harder to execute. And besides, I think I’d rather save the marriage if possible, than call it quits.



jsmart said:


> Man, that was a long OP. You're very weak dude. She has no respect for you. Why did your wife hate your sister so much? Could your sister have some dirt on her?


My sister has no dirt on her. My wife tends to hold grudges over the smallest things. That’s why it was hard for me accept her wish to stay elsewhere, or lock herself in a room. I found it immature and needless. Even she now realizes that the right thing to do was to suck it up for the couple of hours while my sister was there, and just let things go.

Just to give you guys some perspective on what I’m talking about with regards to the hatred towards my sister:

When we flew over a few years ago for my sister’s wedding, my sister didn’t ask my wife if she had a place to have her make up done. Or when my sister visited us and cut her trip shortly for personal reasons, she didn’t come to my wife and told her why she was leaving. Or when we flew over there to get married, and my wife needed a ride to the hair salon, my sister didn’t want to take her because she was busy getting ready for the wedding…. Stupid things like that. I understand those are not the nicest things to do, but it’s not like my sister murdered one of our kids for god’s sake. Put another way, if that was her sister who did all those things to her, she wouldn’t think twice of it. But because it’s not her side of the family that caused those issues, then it’s an all-out war. And trust me when I say it, her sister is not an angel either, yet you won’t see me causing all that fuss.



jsmart said:


> If you want to try to salvage this marriage, you need to develop as a man. Start doing things to better yourself and become more self- reliant. Your wife wants you to do these things so she can have more free time to do who knows what.


And I have been… it’s a long process, but I’m moving in the right direction. I’m nothing like the person I used to be 3 years ago.



jsmart said:


> I too highly recommend Married Man Sex Life Primer. It's a guide for you to become a better man and there by a more desirable husband. Even if it doesn't work with her, it can guide you to being a better man for the next woman.


Thank you. Will definitely check it out.



john117 said:


> - Wife agreed to go to Farawaystan with the understanding that they stay with his family.


Not quite Farawaystan... rather a very westernized, developed, democracy.



john117 said:


> -- Wife did not establish a precondition about the sister.


In a way she did… when she said she will not be present in the same room with my sister.



john117 said:


> - So, she throws a fit and calls Ryanair to get her out of this hole...


I figured if she wants to sit in a room by herself for a couple of hours, that’s her predicament and decision to make. I would have loved her to just hang with the rest of us in the living room, even if she didn’t say a word. It was a total embarrasement in and of itself, but at least no one really said anything about her not being around. It became a huge embarrassment when she came out and told me she’s flying back on the same day we arrived, after 20 minutes being in that room.
And that ‘hole’ is her own home country as well. Not like I took her to some tribal family in the Afghan Mountains… 



john117 said:


> To me, the previous behaviors and this and the follow up behaviors suggest that a mental health issue is worth investigating, whether NPD, BPD, or bipolar.


My sister told me she needs to be medicated. I have zero intention of even remotely suggesting any psychic diagnosis in-line with what my sister suggested. I might as well put a bullet in my head. And no, I don’t think she’s unstable. I just truly think that she’s going through a lot of things at this point in her life, me being one of them, and it’s taking a toll on her. But no, she is not mentally unstable. Not even close.



aine said:


> 1. you are a weak excuse for a husband


I *WAS*, not anymore.



aine said:


> 2. You let your wife down big time when she was in a foreign land with your family who abused her


It wasn’t foreign, it was her own homeland as well, native language, etc. and my family didn’t abuse or mistreat her, it was my sister. My parents always treated her with respect.



aine said:


> 3 You let the abuse happen, did not intervene, there is no coming back from that one. You did side with your sister, how could you let your sister be so abusive and not do anything about it? YOu didn't want to offend your sister, but it was ok to offend and hurt your wife? You don't deserve your wife.


Things happened very quickly on the 2nd day when I was present. I didn’t have a chance to even form a thought before the whole thing got out of hands. I did side with my wife, but not firmly enough, and so I guess it counts as I sided with my sister – fair enough.



aine said:


> 4. You expected her to make it up to you and show her love, why the hell should she? YOu should be on your knees asking for her forgiveness for being weak and useless as a H


Trust me when I tell you I spent many discussions and arguments after that, apolgogizing and explaining how truly sorry I was, and how I wish I could turn time back and change things over, but I CAN’T! No one can! I wish I could, but I just can’t. The only thing I can do is work on myself to improve my image. I can only change the future, not the past.



aine said:


> 5. She has lost all respect for your, rightfully so. A wife expects her H to put her above all and protect her, you FAILED big time


I learned it late, but hopefully not too late.



aine said:


> 6. No wonder she feels lonely in the marriage, you do not have her back, she wants to be appreciated and protected, she is not getting that from you


No, she USED TO not get it from me. Nowadays, I provide her with the all support I can. If this trip were to take place again today, the outcome would have been very different (in a good way).



aine said:


> 7. Your wife is not going through menopause or anything, you have lost her because now she knows she cannot trust you with her heart, you showed her you were, you will put her last and trample all over her emotions, if it suits you.


As I mentioned in my OP and above here as well, my wife is going through other stuff as well. I’m not the sole problem in her life right now – I know it because she said so herself.



aine said:


> 8. She realised in 2015, she cannot rely on you anymore, hence the 'independent woman'


Well, hopefully I get to prove her that she is now married to a better person than pre-2015.



aine said:


> Sorry but you brought all of this on yourself. Women take a lot of crap from those they love, but once you push them over the edge, they lose respect for you, it is very very hard to come back from that and there will always be a part of themselves you will never have, they will go through the motions, put on a good show too. Unless you do a complete transformation, (I doubt you will as you sound weak and not a leader), she may stay with you for the kids, but she believed what she saw, and she was right to.


With all due respesct, I don’t appreciate the accusatory diagnosis you’re coming up with solely based on this post. Don’t try to establish a level of diagnosis. I *USED TO BE* weak, but not anymore. I used to be insecure, not anymore! 
I really appreciate the one-sided accusatory stance. This just provides with that much more ambition to prove I have changed.



aine said:


> Based on what info really. She and his sister obviously have some beef which has not been fully clarified here. If my insulting Brother in law wanted us to go visit, I would also refuse to because he has said some awful stuff to me in the past and I will never be his friend. That is Mrs OP's prerogative, it doesn't mean she is BP. Maybe she doesn't want to be treated like ****.


My family never treated her with disrespect, even though she sure knew how to pull some nasty strings with them. And my sister didn’t even know my wife hated her guts until I broke her the news right before our visit. My sister may have done some things inadvertently that pissed my wife off, but she never did anything directly to her, on purpose, to warrant that level of hatred. It was blown out of proportion. I never expected any level of interaction between her any my sister while we were there. All I wanted her was to act like an adult, and not create a scene at my parents’ place, just because my sister did some things that annoyed her in years past. Act like an adult for crying out loud! I’m not justifying my sister’s actions. My wife didn’t deserve to be berated, called names, or pushed – THAT PART IS ALL ON MY SISTER. But my wife’s behavior was childish in the first place. But alas, I’ve learned that I should have sided with my wife regardless.



aine said:


> She probably doesn't want to have sex with someone she doesn't trust or respect. Would you have sex with your husband if you didn't trust him with your heart? He threw her heart in his pocket with his keys and was more concerned with his sister's heart that his wifes, that says it all, then she ought to have sex with that?


Not when you put it like that, but that scenario was back in 2015, and I was very different person back then. I’m completely different now. Sex is not the only thing I’m looking. I’m looking to reconnect with her again emotionally. For what it’s worth, like I mentioned in the OP, she did manage to ‘reconnect' with me a couple of time, on a sexual level – unsolicited! So how do you explain that? Is it like a switch a woman turns on and off? Because all I was getting for a while (after that 2015 trip) were mixed signals, where out of the blue, I’d get laid all of a sudden, without even asking for it…



john117 said:


> If the beef was present why did she agree to the arrangements? They're both at fault here....


She resisted, she wanted to rent a place for the duration of the visit. And I would have agreed if I believed her reasons made sense. But given that my sister doesn’t live with my parents, and knowing all the small stupid things my sister did that pissed her off, I figured my sister will show up, my wife may go to a room for a bit, and we can just enjoy the rest of the trip. I didn’t expect my wife to ask for the airline’s number after 20 minutes….. that’s just immature. Regardless of the kind of husband I used to be in the earlier years. Her reasons lacked sense. Even her mom told her after we got back to the States: You couldn’t just stayed in the living room with everyone, and just pretend? (Not that her mom approves my sister’s actions, but you get the point here).



personofinterest said:


> How do we know she agreed? It's more likely she just caved to his badgering. I know BPD. I do NOT see that here.


She caved while threatening that she will be in a different room whenever my sister would drop by.



john117 said:


> Like with my wife, incidentally, BPD is not the cause of the issues, it's simply the reason a lot of things can't improve.


Just curious, was your wife professionally diagnosed with BPD? If so, by whom?



Livvie said:


> She also pre informed OP that she would not be in the same room as the sister during the trip. Sister came in, wife kept to her boundary and left the room herself and went into a bedroom. THE SISTER followed her in and proceeded to yell at her. OP did nothing about it.


Yes, she pre-informed she will be in a different room whenever my sister were to drop by. She DIDN’T pre-inform me that if she had to spend more than 20 minutes on the very first evening of our visit, she’ll be booking a flight back home. THAT’S the part that pissed me off. I saw it as nothing but a cheap stunt to stir 5hit up. Any my sister didn’t follow her anywhere. My sister first came to me to get my approval and after clearing with me, she went in there with the intention to resolve whatever beef my wife had with her. When my wife refused get off the phone to talk to her, my sister lost her 5hit. I genuinely thought they will talk it through. I was wrong, and the rest from that moment is 100% my sister’s fault. 



badsanta said:


> @john117 since we are all on the diagnoses bandwagon here, I'm going to toss this out there... The wife blew up and become highly unstable upon traveling to the OP's homeland. My wife is a foreigner and I have experience in what it is like to travel a great distance to go and stay with a spouse's family...
> I am guessing the wife is a borderline diabetic that becomes highly agitated when her blood sugars become low. All foreign foods taste like crap as all people grow up with a taste for their own culture. Travel outside of the country and your digestion also takes a nosedive as foreign/incompatible flora are inevitably introduced into your diet. The combination of being hungry, feeling like your indigestion is the equivalent of being beaten by a baseball bat in the abdomen, and having a sister in law that wants to berate you... I strongly feel the combination of those things could easily induce a diabetic state in which one will become so challenged with low blood sugars that it could alter their emotional state!
> Take someone with traits of BDP, remove them from their culture, and at the same time suddenly drop their blood sugars, well your probably going to witness an unforgettable WTF moment of emotional instability!


You’re over complicating things. I don’t think my wife is BDP or unstable. She just holds grudges over the dumbest things sometimes.



Spicy said:


> I would bring home the divorce papers, and let her see you filling them out. See how the reaction goes. Maybe it will jolt her, but I think the fix would be temporary if there was one. Sorry dude, when women are done, we are done.


I’m not intending on bluffing simply because I’d rather try to save the marriage the call it quits. At this point, if I went to those lengths, I have a feeling she would sign them, but I’d rather not find out. Not yet at least.



BarbedFenceRider said:


> Ahh, I see we have all fallen to the two camps. He neglected and she cheated. Or the He's weak and she's lonely....
> 
> Either way. Stick a fork in it. This marriage is done. And since this is an international deal...I am betting the children will be around a single parent for the duration. Sad.


It’s amazing how people come out with all these doomsday declartions, portraying as if they know it all, and then say something like ‘it’s an international deal, and the kids will be with one parent’ – I mean where did you hear me saying one of us has moved to a different country? Both of us are American citizens, and neither one of us is going anywhere. If were to get a divorce tomorrow, we’ll be living in the same town, sharing custody. Just because we were both born in a different country, doesn’t make this some ‘international incident’. Jesus Crhist… My wife had spent the last 75% of her life in the States, and I have spent my last 50% here. We are both 40…. Do the math! Her family lives here (she moved here as a kid), my family is back from where both of us are. But I’m here close to 20 years, and am not going anywhere. My life is here.



BarbedFenceRider said:


> As for OP, counselling would help in determining your growth and resolving your past issues. It may give some comfort for the times ahead with the divorce. As for the infidelity of the stbxw...Forget it. Why bother. Just know that she checked out years earlier, and she was a coward to let this relationship continue in light of children and such....Time to move on and find happiness elsewhere....


Wow, I knew my situation isn’t a good one, but all I’m getting here is one doomsday outcome after another.



john117 said:


> Y'all need to focus on the cultural aspect a bit. If they're both from the same country obviously not an issue, but if he's from Slovenia and she's from Kansas City, things could be dicy regardless.


As I mentioned above ^^, we are both from the same place. ZERO cultural differences.


john117 said:


> But we're all adults here so it's not a stretch to say that adults - both sides - don't act like this.


Agreed




john117 said:


> Personally I think too much water has gone under the bridge so it's not really anything worth saving. Regardless of amateur or professional diagnosis, adults are expected to keep their emotions in check. The guy's history hasn't been stellar either, so between the two of them it's better they find some arrangement for parenting and give it a rest otherwise.


Not ready to call it quits yet. Sorry. It may very well end in a divorce, but I don’t feel like I have exhausted all the options, nor have allowed my wife to get over everything else she’s going through.



PigglyWiggly said:


> I read the entire OP but not much of the responses. My useless advice is that she is a different woman now than who you used to know. You can't win her back as that woman is no longer. The only chance you have now is to win over the affection and attraction of the woman she is today. Obviously, you can't do that by being the man you used to be. You've basically entered the dating world with her as your top prize and she doesn't even know who you are. Now get your stuff together and become a man that you can respect and admire and then, if she has anything left in her that still has an ounce of feeling for you, she may fall for this respectable and admirable you. This is not a guarantee but your best chance in my opinion.


THIS is the closest and most accurate description as to how things are between us. That’s exactly what she says (“I’m a different woman now, and you will need to get used to the new me”). At the same token, I’m a new ‘me’ as well, so maybe we can hit the reset button on this marriage. I’m not saying it will be easy or done overnight, it may take years, but if the end result is a healthy marriage, I’m willing to give it a shot and wait it out.



PigglyWiggly said:


> Kudos to you for typing all that out, Yeah you've been a less than ideal husband and you know that. No need for me to beat on you for that. You are suffering plenty of consequences for that action. You sound like you want to be a better man and that will benefit everyone in your life. You have a laundry list of flaws/faults that you are aware of. Don't beat on yourself for those things but focus on improving that part of yourself. It's how we grow. Peace brother and I wish you luck.


Thank you. It’s nice to hear at least one member providing words of encouragements, rather than blasting me for the faults I’m already well aware of, and am working to fix. After all, I didn’t come here to try and justifying my old me, or my sister’s actions. I came here for advice on what to do (that I’m not already doing) in an attempt to save this marriage.

Thank you all, keep them coming.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I know you are looking for hope and if you can rebuild her trust perhaps it will work.

But you are ignoring basic women's instinct. We go out into the world and we find lots of shiny new men each with a sense of excitement and promise. We choose one to be our spouse, now most women choose based on security, emotional (we trust you won't hurt us), physical ( we trust you will protect us from hurt), monetary (we trust you will provide for us and any children).

Sure there is also compatibility and attraction. But there are many attractive men why do we choose the one we choose.

She has basically reset. The world is once again filled with possibilities. She may need to wait ten years if she wants to wait until the young ones are older. Or maybe she just needs to wait until she has a new well paying job and some confidence. Or until you get tired of waiting and divorce her. You see she probably now trusts you'll get tired, sometimes people want things but don't have the courage to take the first step.

But you want to be her new shiny again. There are billions of men in the world. At least one of them is willing to meet her needs. You are the only one whose proven they are not willing to meet her needs in two of the three crucial areas. You say now you are different but how would she know? Only circumstance can prove that. 

Put another way. Women have a love fog or rosey glasses we wear, if allows us to overlook many faults in those we love ( even if we are critical). For instance I am 100% convince my husband would step in front of a bullet to save me. Because he is a good protector. However, God grace us that will never come to pass so I'll never know. But I love him for it. I overlook extra weight and **** him every chance I get. You showed you wouldn't even step in front of your sister. Yes that was 2015 but that was the moment when she took off the glasses and knew.

If you stay together she's going to remain independent because she KNOWS she can't depend on you. It's a parental arrangement now. There won't really be any opportunities for you to rebuild the blind trust she gave you before. Most likely she'll be on the look out for some new shiny.

Why do I say these things? 

1 you wanted to know your chances. They are small 

2. You should keep an eye out for affair behavior.

3. You can't just say oh I'm different now. Oh I'm not weak now. You'll have to figure out how you show her that when these things are situational.

4. You have read the 5 languages of love? What's her primary language? Work hard in that area, but don't ignore the others.

5. No begging won't help but romance or her love language may. Take her on dates, bring her flowers, do nice unexpected things.

6. Be aware of whatever situation you are in. Try to communicate a us against the world view. That doesn't always mean you have to take her side but it does mean in the end you'd choose her over anyone else. For instance in 2015, you kept pushing your wife and sister to reconcile but did not get involved. That was you not being on the team you were on the sidelines. An alternative, would have been to say I don't understand why the things my sister has done gets you so upset (before the pushing cause after its obvious) but let me see if I can find a hotel we can stay at for the remainder of the trip. That puts you on her team loving her even if you don't agree with her current emotional state. You don't have to be a door mat. And because you've shut her emotions down for you it takes more to dig out of the whole.

As far as why she had sex with you out of the blue. Well. There are lots of reasons. I like sex maybe she does too and she doesn't have other choices right now. Maybe she isn't quite ready for divorce so she's giving you alittle to prevent that. 

Has there been any lately or just some after the trip. I'd guess none lately.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Your post of " I came here for advice on what to do (that I’m not already doing) in an attempt to save this marriage." isn't what you should be doing.

I commend you for your working to find yourself to be a better partner. But do not begin to think it is for this marriage. SHE CHECKED OUT. And since she has OM in view. You were essentially "fired" from the job. She is just to chicken to finalize things. There will be plenty of posters here that will tell you the same thing. 9 times out of 10. When a woman checks out...It's for good. It's just that you are a "known" quantity. She knows what she has gotten for so long. And the OM is new and exciting. It allows her to be someone she wasn't for so long. Thats a tough one to beat. And we will ALL tell you, playing the "pick me" dance, will only lead to more pain shopping. You don't want it.

Work on fixing you like you have been doing. Use TAM to vent frustrations and document your growth and hurdles. Then, look for a partner in life with love, respect, openness and charity. You will be happy again. It just takes time.

And just for the rainbows and unicorns in us all....He needs to not put effort into HER. He puts effort into his self, kids and household. Then IF and thats a gbig IF she notices...Then maybe they can wipe a slate clean and start over. With mutual respect and no resentment.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

A few things...

What is so attractive about the "new me" that your W is right now? No love, no affection, no intimacy. Just kids, roommates and a household. Doesn't sound all that great to me.

Red flags: I wasn't really asking you about where you guys were from when I asked about her family of origin. What I am primarily interested in is her history. What kind of people are her mom and dad? What kind of marriage did they have? How is her relationship with both of them. Does she have close friends or are they mostly superficial? Is there any history of abuse, addiction, etc.? You've mentioned that her sister is no peach...what is going on there? 

A couple of folks brought up BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). A couple of the things you mention about your W raised my antennae as well. Grudges. Resentment. Hairline triggers. Bursts of anger. Including going off on you if you even mention them. Those were just a few things that indicated that she isn't emotionally healthy and doesn't regulate emotions well.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

You also need to put away your ideas that you are a failure if you cannot bring this marriage back. This 3 year experiment with self improvement has so far resulted zilch for you in the better relationship department. And I am not knocking the apparent hard work you've done. It needed to be done and no doubt you are a better man than you were. 

My observation however is that you cannot say that about your W. She has engaged in emotional affairs and by all accounts is on an opposite trajectory. 

Your current plan isn't working. 

Might be time to try something different. 

Because continuing to provide and bend over for your W while getting nothing in return doesn't make for a very rewarding marriage. It also kinda makes you a doormat.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Your wife lost her feelings for you when she was having an affair back in ‘15.

All the proverbs you’re experiencing are a direct result of the fact that your wife has NO feelings for you. She gave them to another man. Emotional affair or not, her feelings are gone just the same.

All this “neglect”....
All this blame you’re placing on yourself...

It takes two to have a marriage. You worked and provided all this time. 



You’re not perfect. Nobody else is either. Stop blaming yourself for all this.
She has been done with you for a long time.

Let her go. She’s just using you for security at this point. Stop worrying about her. Detach. If she wanted to fix this, she would. She doesn’t. 

Strickland a fork in it. It’s done.

Release one another. Never stay with a woman who doesn’t care to touch you. You. An find a much better roommate that.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"She is not cheating on me now (she doesn’t go anywhere), and the emotional affair she had, is in the books. Just like I can’t change my past, I can’t keep on holding it against her. That won’t do any good. As part of my growing, I have learned to let things go, and move on. No point in holding a grudge or keep on bringing it up. Part of my growing was to learn to give her space, and stop questioning every move of hers. I have stopped asking her where she goes (not that she goes out much, if at all), why she’s on the phone so much, or who is she talking to. I’ve learned that these questions and inquiries will make things worse. She wanted space, and so I’m giving it to her. "

You rug swept her affair and there was no consequence for her doing it. I would not be so certain she isn't still having an affair, either ea or pa. There are always ways that cheaters can find what to do. 
YES you were not the best husband but the cheating is ALL on her and no way justified by what you did. Come on, setting up a trip to prove she is a good wife and has an ea with one of your Co workers? I wouldn't be surprised if it started before then. You can improve yourself all you want. She is still a cheater and has done no work on her part to try and improve. To me, she is just biding her time until she can just divorce you.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

For all that you were, and for all that you are now, there is just one single common denominator that strike me back about you: doormat.

I do not say it to insult you, or to pile on you, but for you to see that all of what you are doing now, and/or before, is and/or have been nothing but attempts to satisfy your wife, but in a meek, non strong way. 

For three years now you've been trying to better yourself, but with the ultimate objective of winning her back; but the caveat that I see here is that by the same token you have given up your self respect as a man.

Any man that respect himself do not reduces himself to a life of indented servitude to a woman in order to try to win her back. It just doesn't work that way because women are attracted to strong, confident men. 

You may think that in the long run you might win her back by being a new you, but reality is that your wife's already figured out that all of this new you is just to get her back, THIS usually has the contrary effect: it turns off even more a woman, and make her lose even more her respect for the man.

Now, ocassionally, it does happens that a woman (mostly under some excruciating circumstances) regains her love and admiration for her man, but mainly this just happens in the movies. As an older guy, I can tell you that normally, when a woman had lost respect and feels nothing for her man, it is over, she is not getting that back.

I tend to take people at face value at what they say; I believe them. When a woman tells me she's done with me, I immediately, remove myself from her existence. It has served me well in my life.

I wish you well in your endeavor to win her back, but for the life of me I can't understand how can you live with yourself as a man, after you've been repeatedly told that she feels nothing for you, and living a life of perennial rejection. I do know that my pride wouldn't allow me to.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; emotional connection with me*

It's easy to rugsweep the possibility of - as a minimum - emotional instability all the way to PD and attribute it to selfishness or a myriad of other things. Despite a decade of psychology education it took a while to connect the dots. Then it took even longer to get out of Superman mode. 

The question of the day is not "does she have a PD". It's "can you change yourself and she herself to the extent that the marriage is viable. I'm not sure this is likely.

The PD, if diagnosed properly, is simply a good wake up call for everyone. If they care. My s-wife was diagnosed a decade ago. The only question she asked was "can you die from it"? Well, no. In the grand scheme of things it was a distraction, and the relationship was toast regardless.

BPD's tends to "paint" people as "black" or "white". Your wife's view of your sister is a good example. They don't regulate emotions well. No empathy. Emotional powderkeg types. That's not working out for fixing the relationship...


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; emotional connection with me*



john117 said:


> It's easy to rugsweep the possibility of - as a minimum - emotional instability all the way to PD and attribute it to selfishness or a myriad of other things. Despite a decade of psychology education it took a while to connect the dots. Then it took even longer to get out of Superman mode.
> 
> The question of the day is not "does she have a PD". It's "can you change yourself and she herself to the extent that the marriage is viable. I'm not sure this is likely.
> 
> ...


Agree with John here on the black/white perceptions of your wife. And guess what? Not only is your sister seen in a negative light, you are wearing the black hat, as well. When viewed through that prism, the odds for the type of true reconciliation that you want appear to be slim.

I would consider setting a date certain (in your own mind) for this all to play out. Go ahead and kill her with kindness/machoness/whatever for the next six months. Get past another X-mas holiday season. In January, sit her down for a talk. Acknowledge / apologize one last and final time for your past faults and mistakes. Express your regret. Tell her you've tried to earn her forgiveness for three years but have failed. Tell her the divorce papers will be served the next day. Tell her, "I don't want a divorce, but I don't want to be married like this." 

The realization of losing you might not be even enough to re-order her current perceptions of the world. But, really, it's the only option you have. The rest is just a life a quiet desperation.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp; emotional connection with me*



TheLostOne said:


> Thanks all, I will address each and every post here...


Well in the history of TAM with most frustrated husbands making "drive by" posts looking for a quick fix to solve an impossible problem, @TheLostOne actually took the time to reply to everyone's advice. Everyone here should give him extra credit for that and put in some extra effort...

I do worry @TheLostOne that you might be trying to hard. Sometimes in order to connect better with someone you have to not care. I know that sounds really awkward! But I am conveying that in the sense that you actually have to be willing to hurt their feelings and address problems as if you are completely able to just walk away unless the other person is also willing to try. 

Essentially the ONLY thing you need to care about is your spouse's willingness to work with you. Until you discover a tiny ounce of that you will need to stop caring for her and focus on what is best for you. 

Sometimes it is difficult to have a discussion about what your needs are in the relationship and convey them clearly, along with the consequences of how far you are will to go or not go for things to change. I would advise you sit down and begin writing your feelings and thoughts out in a letter to you wife. Don't necessarily give it to her, but make it a point to read it as if written by an old girlfriend of yours that you care little about. Rewrite it until it reads well from that point of view. Then give it to your wife. Conveying your situation in written form will help get your ideas across clearly because your wife can choose to read your letter when she is calm and able to deal with her own feeling reading it without any concern of an argument breaking out. She will get an opportunity to carefully compose and convey her thoughts to you when she is ready. 

The next step is to try and schedule quality time together and work together to make it happen.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp; emotional connection with me*

....


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## CharlizeAngel17 (Jul 27, 2017)

All men want their wife to be that girlfriend they dated once they are married and hope they don't change. Women want to change the boyfriend into a husband. You and your wife both need individual counseling first with a life coach. You both have issues since you were young and getting into marriage without real knowledge of what marriage means and is. Your children know that it's broken; mine did and told me they would rather me divorce than to live in that chaos on their account. Mind you they were 12 and 13 years old; kids know more than you think. My kids are better off now than before. They are resilient and move on pretty well with counseling. 

I've been in this kind of relationship and you both are to blame; is it repairable? You could, but it's going to have to be a third party involved since both are going to have to admit faults and forgive one another without throwing it back in the other face. 

Sex is different for men, its physical for men. Most women want the lead up to the sex.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Just reading your first post. Your wife has every right to leave you. 

She is your wife and you allowed your sister to berate and assault her. What a man you are. She is your wife, your first duty is to her not your sister.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Lost one, I hope you have not been scared away from TAM, I was hard on you but the fact you took time to respond so extensively shows indeed you are invested. Perhaps you should sit your wife down and tell her exactly what you have told us. You screwed up in the past, you know you have hurt her but you want to make it right. That will go a long way with your wife.
The best of luck to you.


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife lost her feelings for you when she was having an affair back in ‘15.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry but you are wrong here, Ev. It is all his fault except for the EA with “Jessica.” But that wouldn’t have happened if he hadn’t treated her so poorly.


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; emotional connection with me*

Lost One,

Surprisingly you have gotten some really bad advice in this thread. I suggest you ignore most of the posts except for two:

Blues post #14 and Aine post #21. These two posts are spot on. Read these over several times. Ignore the ones about Athol Kay and MAP, red pill etc. these are applicable in some situations, but not yours. You do not need to divorce.

Usually checked out women don’t ever regain the original innocent love feelings for husband, but there may be some hope in your case. I say that because of the resilience your wife has shown in stressful situations.

And ignore the posts about BPD. Your wife isn’t mentally ill, she’s responding like any normal flawed human being might under the circumstances you have described.

Forgive her for the EA. She was feeling isolated because you were not defending her, and your co-worker did not exercise proper boundaries, but they both probably enjoyed the guilty pleasure feeling of an affair. Her major betrayal of you was indicated by her trying to keep it secret by using the “Jessica” alias. She knew what she was doing was wrong, but probably felt justified by the way you treat her.

By the way, forgive means you say to her “I forgive you for the affair” and then the hard part — don’t ever bring it up again in the heat of an argument. Put it behind you.

You both will probably never trust each other 100% again, but you may get to 90%, and that may be good enough to rebuild your marriage.

I want to re-emphasize what Blue says. When you marry, your wife becomes your family. You leave your mother and father and cleave to your wife. If you are Christian, it is expressed as you become one flesh. Your mom dad sister brother are no longer your family although they are still your relatives. You, your wife, your children, they are your family, they are your team. You as husband defend your family like a tiger against all external forces. You defend them even in circumstances where you believe they are wrong or acting immaturely. You defend them against attacks by strangers, attacks by your relatives, her relatives, friends, amorous co-workers, parents of your kids’ friends, anyone. When your sister attacked your wife, you should have considered it an attack on you personally and responded accordingly.

Instead you first abandoned your wife to fight her own battle with your sister. You might do that with an child to teach him/her to stand up for themselves, but Not your wife. Second, you entered the fight, but as an impartial debate referee, instead of your wife’s defender. Later on you said to her, no wife will ever come between me and my relatives. This is so backwards! You should have said to your sister, do not ever try to come between me and my wife! Your sister even knows that herself and realized she was wrong, but then tried to claim there was something mentally wrong with your wife that she needed help for.

Lost I hope you can salvage your marriage. Don’t give up yet.


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

*Re: Wife has lost her sexual &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; emotional connection with me*

@TheLostOne please read my post #52. Then let us know how you are doing.


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