# Don’t know where to turn



## ForMyKidd (Jan 3, 2018)

Firstly I am not too sure if this is even the right place to post, but it seems like the most appropriate section. 

Life has stalled...

Where to begin. The start is probably the best place, I have known my wife since we were both in our teens when we dated briefly before going out separate ways. We reconnected in our early 20s having both had rather unhealthy relationships - I was still with my ex when I got together with my wife - but we clicked instantly and we knew that we were right for each other. Flash forward a whirlwind 12 months and we were engaged and I had bought our first flat. We were planning our wedding and Anna (not her real name) was abut to graduate from university. 
We then fell pregnant in 2010 and focus turned away from the wedding to our precious arrival - followed by our second daughter 18 months later. Yes our hands were full but it was so worth it, we made time for not only each other but also family days away making memories like those I had as a child. We eventually tied the knot in 2014 - it was the childhood dream wedding. Ceremony in our church followed by reception at the seaside - I provided as much as I could to make the day everything my wife wanted albeit this was somewhat harder given we were a single income family with two small kids. We had a fantastic time, we honeymooned in Las Vegas without the kids (a last minute surprise for Anna which I had planned well in advance) and went to Jamaica a few months later (this was supposed to be our honeymoon). 
However a few months later I got suspicious of my wife’s behaviour, she didn’t seem herself around me and our love life had all but vanished. I then found out she had been having an affair with an older married man- a friend of her family. She denied this despite all the evidence, then slowly her story changed, she denied having a physical relationship but blamed me for everything - she said that I had pushed her away and seemed to absolve herself of any wrong doing. We argued, fought, tried to hammer things out but the whole time she refused to admit the affair despite text messages on her phone confirming the truth. I was heart broken and really found it difficult to see any way of salvaging our marriage but knew I had to try for our kids - they deserved to have both parents in their lives and shouldn’t be victims of another broken home. Also I refused to be punished for my wife’s infidelity- why should I not get to see my girls every night and morning just because she screwed me over.

We tried to keep things normal for the girls, we never argued in front of them and continued to sleep in the same room as always, a few months later we fell pregnant again. My wife had been very forthcoming over the last few months and with hindsight it could have been more than just because she was guilty. We bought a new house in a lovely new estate near where we currently lived - to the world we were the perfect family. However our life’s were torn apart when my son didn’t survive, he passed away during labour at 38 weeks and I felt the sort of pain that can’t be described. Neither science nor God could give us any answers - our son had been taken away and we were left to deal with the consequences - I had a wife who felt like a failure as a mother and two daughters that I had to somehow explain to that their brother was in heaven. 

But through it all I protected my family like a husband and father should, my kids never missed a day of nursery because I insisted that normality and structure had to remain in their lives - it was me who dealt with all the questions from neighbours and parents at the nursery who excitedly asked about the baby not knowing yet what had happened. I made sure that my wife didn’t need to deal with that feeling of not knowing what to say when a relative stranger asks if the baby has arrived yet. We went through hell during that time - without the support of my faith and family I don’t know how I could have survived. Over time we attended support groups and seen a psychologist- mainly my wife’s suggestion as she was really struggling (having been brought up by strong Irish Catholics I had always been taught that being weak wasn’t an option and that my trust in the Lord would see me through my trials in life). After speaking with the medical staff seeking results we were consistently told our sons death was just an unfortunate event to which there was no medical or scientific explanation - however we were told that there was no medical reason to stop Anna from carrying to full term again in future. I really struggled at that point, both physically and emotionally but I didn’t have the option to stop - too many people relied on me to be there for them. For several months it was just me doing everything, I ran myself into the ground whilst my wife attempted to deal with our grief. Things got easier to deal with day-by-day. We have since had another beautiful little boy who has eased our pain but he will never replace what I have lost. I think daily about what is missing from my life but again the reality is that my family needs food, clothes and shelter regardless of how tired, exhausted or mentally drained I may be feeling.

At times it feels like I am pulling the full team myself, my wife is a player but she isn’t pulling her weight like she should. Every morning before I leave for work the girls are fed and dressed whilst my wife sits for 45 minutes putting on her makeup or doing her hair. It’s me who does all the clothes washing and ironing, it’s me who makes sure the school uniforms are ready the night before or that the snacks and packed lunches are prepared. I genuinely don’t think my wife can see how much I do and I really don’t want recognition - I just want a fair balance so that I too can enjoy family life. I have never asked my wife to get a job and have always provided a home, car, holidays and we don’t go without. We don’t Have a lavish life but we certainly don’t just exist. 

Having kids means we have very little time as a couple, and even when we do it’s like I make all the effort. Anna would much rather sit with a glass of wine and sitting on WhatsApp chatting with her friends than sit with me which means I just goto bed and try to get some sleep - then she will complain about being so tired the following day because she sits up till midnight chatting to friends. I regularly need to hear stories about how lucky her friends because they can afford certain luxuries or get weekends away - it’s deflating when it’s made evident that what I provide isn’t enough. When we first got together we would have been happy in a cardboard box but I just feel that I am nothing more than a provider in our relationship. 

Should I have taken heed of her infidelity years ago and realised that our marriage was destined to fail? We have good days and bad days but I feel like a relationship shouldn’t take this much work. I feel grossly undervalued and unappreciated at home, when my wife does show attention it’s either on her terms or she makes it evident that she is doing it to fulfil something that she feels obligated to do.
We have been through so much as a couple and as a family but some days I don’t have any fight left in me, the thought of Anna with another man still makes me feel sick and her refusal to accept responsibility has just left me with no closure and it just runs through my head till the point I just get frustrated and angry. Where do I go, how do I move forward. Do I do what is right and stand by my family until they are old enough to understand and old enough to take care of themselves.


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

Have you read; No more mr. nice guy and Hold on to your NUTS?
I think you might find insight in both books.. should take you like 5 hours to finish em both.... you can do it while she is chatting on whatsup.

Im surprised you went with a 3rd kid after infidelity. Also, have you had all kids DNA tested?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I would sit your wife down to ask her some very real questions. Questions like, do you want this marriage? 
Do you love me?
Are you in love with me? 
What are you doing for the marriage?
What repairs have you made so you won’t cheat again?
Do you think I feel safe with you as a spouse?
What do you bring to the table that I find attractive?

After this I would quietly expose the family friend to his family. Then expose to her family, then ask the questions again from above. Your wife is rugsweeping the affair, reconciliation can’t be done with rug sweeping, she needs to commit fully. Also expose her to your kids in an age appropriate way so they know that mom cheated on them too. It won’t be easy, but this is the way you need approach this to really reconcile in a healthy way. Also, is she still in contact with OM, the great family friend? Is OM still in contact with her family? If so, they might choose to not have contact with OM if her family knows the truth.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

So sorry you are having to deal with the aftermath of your wife's cheating and the loss of your son, @ForMyKidd.

I am going out on a limb, here, but as you spell like I do (Neighbours, behaviour and the fact that you had a flat, not an apartment) I'm presuming you are in the UK.

If so, this organisation might be of help https://www.sands.org.uk/.

In Eire the organisation is Feileacain ? Stillbirth and Neonatal Death Association of Ireland.

You need to also have marriage counselling to help you and her deal with her cheating.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

This is a tough one and one that you cannot take on yourself. It's not going to heal either way with time or perseverance alone, I do know that.

I would highly recommend counseling for the both of you, maybe in this way. Where you go for a few sessions on your own to lay out what's happening and what you can do and then to see if you can have your wife come in and talk to the counselor by herself and THEN start going to the same counselor together to work on the issues together.

My wife went to 3 counseling sessions with me before saying it was making things worse but I stuck with it by myself and I'm glad that I did for my own sanity. I didn't realize the depths of my wife's deceit and current affair when we started counseling. I truly thought it was a lot of just me and what she wasn't getting from me and a kiss and brief affair with a married man. I found out months down the road that she was heavily involved with this man, looking for homes, planning a life with him and meeting up quite often. Even after the OW has been informed, my 'current' wife still longs for this man but it's with the help of counseling that I realize where the issues really lie and that there's not much I could have done and that she has to discover the issues that lie deep inside her on her own.

I hope I didn't get off on a tangent there but what I'm saying is that I think the next step along with reading the books recommended here is to get yourself into counseling, first by yourself, with a counselor experienced in marriage help.


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## username77 (Dec 27, 2017)

Rob_1 said:


> REDACTED BY MODERATOR TEAM


That's assuming his wife isn't a vindictive POS. Which a lot of men find out is the case, and she'll do anything to keep the children away from him out of spite. I have friends who have gone months not seeing their children simply because their ex pretended they weren't home when he went to pick them up. Took months to get her into court, even then she played the same games. It's been going on for years and no matter what the courts order she just doesn't open the door for him to see his kids, cops won't get involved and she's never held accountable. This happens to millions of men worldwide.

Your criticism is way too harsh, he's dealing with a **** of a wife so he can remain foremost in his kids life. That takes guts to do.

OP, there's nothing wrong with staying married for the kids. Just use the time wisely. Use it to improve yourself, get your finances in order, start some hobbies that give you a life apart from your wife. Learn how to enjoy your life with just you and your kids, then your shrew of a wife has no power over you.

You did screw up huge but just rug-sweeping her affair and moving on without her being held accountable. I would also DNA the kids, there's a pretty good chance that 1 or both are her affair partners and not yours based on the timing of everything.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Rob_1 said:


> REDACTED BY MODERATOR TEAM.


This is what I 'allowed' my wife to do to me for years and especially over the past 7 months of her affair with a lot of projecting, gaslighting and doubting myself. I kept going in and out of if I was not giving her what she needed or if it didn't matter if I was or not, she was still deeply troubled within. I'm not ashamed of what I have tried to do, to save the marriage but I could have saved a lot of time if I would have started working on myself earlier. Still put the kids first like you are doing but do what you need to do to get yourself right. Be nice to your wife but get the help I recommend and if she still feels that she doesn't need to work on anything or get help and it's not working for you or the kids with her behavior or actions. Then I would propose that you start talking to her about if she still wants to be in the marriage and if she says yes, then she should agree to work with you on getting help. If she is hesitant or outright says the marriage is virtually over, then that gives you the answer and you should start discussing with her the options to move on.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

DO NOT SAY YOU ARE STAYING TOGETHER FOR THE KIDS. That is a mistake.

Kids can sense the stress and anger in a home where the adults have no love for each other and argue or ignore each other.

Better for the kids to live in a stress free, or relatively calm environment. Even if it is divided custody in different homes.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

You're just being way too nice. Letting her walk all over you. Nothing will change until you assert yourself. She's perfectly content to live her life this way until the next exciting affair opportunity comes along.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MODERATOR WARNING:-

Posts which are insulting toward other people and/or which attempt to game the banned word filter will be edited, or deleted.

And further action may be taken.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

ForMyKidd,

Sorry you've been forced to endure this.

The OM needs to be gone, I mean like 500 miles away if possible in the UK, the north sea possibly or one of those horrible islands.

The OMs deeds need to be exposed to EVERYONE in the OMs family, your family and your WWs family, along with his workplace, church, facebook, linkedin and on a billboard if possible. Expose all at one and without warnings or threats. Gather up all the evidence you have this creeping vampire needs a stake through his heart.

Get a polygraph for your WW.

Tamat


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

ForMyKidd,

Your children especially need to know that the OM is not Uncle Buck or whatever he is called, but that he is the destroyer of their family and happiness. The explanation does not need to be detailed just something like "mummy has a boyfriend"

Tamat


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Some people just don't have the stuff to be married.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

You are learning the hard way why rug sweeping eventually becomes so toxic to the BS. Years later you're now living in a false R and regretting that you didn't hold your WW accountable, as your resentment of her grows each year. Had you tested her remorse properly to begin with, she likely wouldn't have passed the test; and I think that's exactly what you feared then. That's the main reason that BS's rug sweep.

You can choose to remain in a miserable false R, or you can make a decision to do what you should have done years ago. Hold her accountable; for admitting the truth, for owning what she did, for demonstrating remorse, and for committing to the marriage. 

Again, she's likely not going to accept these consequences, but if she does, you have a chance for genuine R. If she doesn't; you'll have to overcome your fear of divorce and and have the confidence to move on with your life.

The choice is yours.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So what ARE you willing to do at this point?


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## pragmaticGoddess (Nov 29, 2017)

Have you or ypur wife had any counseling for the loss of your child? You need to have a conversation with your wife about your unhappiness. And you both need MC. It sounds like you are someone of faith. Does your wife go to church or a similar organization? Is there an older couple you could approach as mentors? Your wife sounds like she needs a purpose in life to keep her going? She also needs to deal with the loss you both had.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

I am extremely sorry for the loss of your child and what you are going through. Unfortunately whilst reading your story one word kept coming to mind. Doormat. You have offered up no consequences of whatsoever to your wife for the affair. Instead you accepted her rug sweeping the matter then proceeded to buy a house with her and have another child. She lost respect for you at the failure to enforce consequences.

Your predicament is a tough one but one that must be faced. Stop the staying for the kids dance. I get it i have children also however you are not modelling a strong role model for your children. What you are teaching them is its ok to be treated like crap, and your partner can go out and have affairs and they should quietly look the other way. Children are smart little creatures, and if they see dad accepting such foul behavour they will no doubt incorporate this into their lives.

Are you sure she is not communicating with another man whilst she is on Whatsapp, facebook, or whatever social media takes her fancy whilst she downs her wine. Her behavour is most unacceptable and you need to man up and draw the line. I would discreetly seek out a lawyer and have an appointment. At the very least you could find out your rights and how a divorce will pan out for you in your jurastiction. Secondly since she contributes nothing to the household whether financially, or through domestic duties, i would stop supporting her financially, emotionally, whatever. Take out any monies from a joint bank account and transfer it to one of your private accounts and have your work re direct your pay to that private account. If you have her as a joint credit card holder cancel her cards. I warn you she will most likely have a childish outburst, where she will spit the dummy at the consequences you will enforce but once she realises you are deadly serious that her foul behvour will no longer be tolerated things are likely to change. I say this from experience. Inform her that you are done supporting her ungrateful arse, and until such time she wishes to conduct herself as a wife and equal partner in the relationship this is the new arrangement. Don't be afraid to take action. If you stay firm that is your best bet of change. And DNA the kids and let it be known you are doing so. This is another form of consequences you can offer aside from knowing the valuable truth if the children are yours.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I realize that you have had to incur two devastation the loss of your son and your wife cheating....please tell me you exposed the OM to everyone the family if you haven't you should have but more importantly you need to take back the reins of the marriage up to now you have done everything to keep the family together and in the process weaken your position in the marriage and with your wife....you need her to own her crap by expose her as well to her family and forcing her to do the heavy lifting in the marriage...if not then you need to move on...if not you will suffer more staying in this marriage and you only have one life. You can be the best single dad.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Incidentally DNAing children in the UK is not a simple process. You will need to speak with a Solicitor for legal advice beforehand.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

It looks like you have a number of intermingled problems. You might address each one in order. However, it is paramount that you do the 180!


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

TAMAT said:


> ForMyKidd,
> 
> Sorry you've been forced to endure this.
> 
> ...


 ^This is almost mandatory if you plan on staying with her. I'd also add that she needs to get a job or a better job if she wants to grouse about what her friends have that she doesn't. If you divorce her she will have to get a job as well. So either way she needs to work if she is not. 
It doesn't sound like she is invested in your marriage at all. Not sure how you can live with that long-term. Best of luck my friend, and make sure you start taking care of your needs as well as everyone else's.


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> Incidentally DNAing children in the UK is not a simple process. You will need to speak with a Solicitor for legal advice beforehand.


There are multiple test kits online, cant you just order one and get it tested in Canada/US? (just needs saliva or somethin)


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Steve2.0 said:


> There are multiple test kits online, cant you just order one and get it tested in Canada/US? (just needs saliva or somethin)


Yes, but it can be illegal in the UK, which is why caution needs to be exercised.


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## JustKeepTrying (Jan 4, 2018)

ForMyKidd said:


> Firstly I am not too sure if this is even the right place to post, but it seems like the most appropriate section.
> 
> Life has stalled...
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry and sad to hear of all you guys have gone through. My spouse and I have been together over 10 years and have 2 kids almost 2 years apart. We dated a couple years and everything was amazing. We had great communication, never argued, and had so much fun together. Things really changed after we had kids and the solid foundation we though we had was shaken to its core. There were several times in our marriage that we were wondering if we were going to make it and what we did to deserve this hell. After the second child I felt like the life had been sucked from my body and I barely got through the day. I was a stay at home mom while my husband worked out of the home. We went from being social people to having little ones and feeling secluded and alone. We were the first of our friends to have kids, we didn't have any family around, and my husband traveled a lot for his job. When we did have time together when the kids would go to bed I was too tired to do anything more. He was neglected and our relationship was neglected.  It was very rough. Our friends and family said they all felt this way during this stage with little ones and it would pass. :/ We were struggling to find any kind of balance between being parents, working and being a couple. We went to counseling, we did tons of research on relationships, we tried talking things out but we were seeing things so different that many times it ended up in an argument. Our most recent counselor has helped a lot and the kids are getting older and more self sufficient which has also helped. A couple months ago we found a website BonTow.com with an app that has helped us a lot too. You enter your wants for your partner like a to do list, a list of what would keep you healthy and a list of how you feel loved and when they do these things for you then you give them recognition. It's been fun for us and really positive since we are both getting our needs met and feeling recognized for meeting the needs of the other. It may be worth a try. When we sat down to fill it out one of my healthy things was sleeping in and I weighted it a 10 which is the highest. My husband's eyes grew big and his was like sleep means that much to you? Which I found ridiculous because I have told him for years that I need and have always needed a lot of sleep to function. He said I know you have said that but I didn't know it meant that much. So when we thought we were communicating it wasn't very good. LOL I'm sure you can guess that his highest weights had to do with sex. So I have been getting some great sleep and he has been getting all the sex he needs among lots of other important things. But most importantly we are being clear with each other on what our needs are and they are being met which is an awesome feeling! I hope you find some answers and peace for you and your wife. I wish you all the best!


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm very sorry for your loss.

And I'm sorry that it seems your wife's affair was rugswept.

You feel the way you do I am guessing because inside, you know that she never suffered consequences, which would have cleanly snapped her from the affair fog.

She's lost respect and appreciation for what she has. You are not commanding or deserving of respect in her eyes. And you carry on doing things that you know will never earn her respect, because she is not stepping up.

It sounds like you are not married. It sounds like she is a boarder and you are the maid.


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

You have to do something. As you may have realized, nothing stays the same. If you treat each other as co-parents and co-chorers and roommates, that's what you will be. You are the stronger one. Your wife is weaker. Was that always true? Or has something changed?

The key to success, whatever that will be, is communication. Despite you being strong, you don't seem to quite get it yet. You strongly want your marriage because of your love of your kids. Your wife does not feel the same. Your wife cheated, apparently for no real reason. She perhaps let the excitement and luxuries of others and took you and your life together for granted. Perhaps her outlook, perhaps a wife's outlook in general, are different than a husband's outlook. Maybe she places more emphasis on compliments and romance, while you focus more on love by providing financially and household chores. I know you posted that you wanted to do date nights and she didn't seem too thrilled. Maybe she is just a selfish person. Traumas sometimes amplify people's character. You stepped up even more, she stepped down further. You have to determine that.

The next step - where to turn next - is to determine what you want. Part of what you want also has to include what is POSSIBLE in your circumstance. "I want to live in a mansion with servants and retire right now." You may want that, but is not possible given your circumstance. Maybe you want to stay married with your wife and kids together and your wife re-commit and re-engage in the marriage. But that might not be possible in your circumstance. Possibly your wife does not want that, and will not do that. So partly you must figure out what will you do if that is the case - that your wife won't change. Will you just do nothing and continue the same way? Will you start to move forward without your wife? Get that set in what you want and what you will be willing to do about it.

Next step, you must communicate with your wife. You must make her understand the seriousness. Now listen, she cheated on you, she told you were wrong, and your reaction was to let it all go and you actually even did more chores for her. So understand that she might think you are a bit of a paper lion when you try to tell her how serious you are about the way your marriage is going. I think you can do it, though.

I suggest writing a script before discussing it with her. Or if you don't think you can talk to her without her constantly interrupting and throwing out irrelevant past minor incidents she blames on you, perhaps you should write her a letter, give it to her when you are going to work, let her be able to read it. I think your post is a good basis for the script or the letter. I think you should try to find some common ground with her before giving her any criticisms or "changes" you want, which she will see as criticism on her. Tell her that you got married, love each other, have supported each other through traumas, both have done well raising your children, and were so happy at one time. And the basis of your discussion is wanting to be happier again. And you have not been happy because of the things you posted here. I would also put something in there that you would be willing to improve any legitimate faults you have.

Aside from your wife wanting to re-engage in the family and the marriage, I think you will not feel "connected" to your wife again, until you both can reach a "meeting of the minds," as being "on the same page," as far as the previous cheating. That she is responsible for her own actions, that she could have spoken up if she was unhappy, that she did the wrong thing, and it can't be on you, no more so than if you would have started cheating now instead of bringing it up to her like you are now.

The problem is, if she is not willing to change, you either have to swallow it or you have to do something about it.

My experience, you have a problem, it is getting worse, not better. If you do not do something now, it is not going to fix itself.


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