# Two Strikes. I'm out.



## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

I have been to other sites similar to this one in the past. Recently, I have found myself coming back to this one frequently over the past week. To seek answers. To seek stories of people who may be in the emotion state I'm in. This is my 1st post. So I will try to talk about my situation and background the best I can.

My wife and I have been married for 15 years, raised 5 children. 4 are mine. 1 was from a previous relationship she had, this one has been a part of my life since she was one years old. It has been a marriage with it's ups and downs having a family this big. For the most part, I have always felt we had love that would get us through life. But of course, financial struggles from raising 5 children has caused stress and problems in the marriage. For me, growing up in a similar up bringing with a strong mother, I felt if my mother could do it, then 2 parents could succeed where only one did. To me, though I wish life could have been slightly easier. I only had to think of my kids it gave me strength and felt after the kids have grown. My wife and I could finally do the things we missed out on doing when we were younger.

I have cheated on my wife the 1st year of marriage. So I guess, in the end. I might have been the cause of all this. At the time I was stupid and selfish. It caused my wife a lot of pain and I didn't help her in the healing process. I kept pretending to myself that we barely knew each other and wasn't sure if I wanted to stay married. I was so stupid and immature. I deserve all the pain I am getting right now. Since the first year. It made me sick to my stomach what I had done and have never done it again. It wasn't until the 3rd year of marriage when I finally confessed to her voluntarily. She took me back and our mistake was not to seek counselling of any sort. 

8th year of our marriage. My wife has an affair with an old boyfriend. This hurt me allot. This was when I started going on forums such as this one to find answers and advice. In a way it helped me understand why it happened and what we had to do in order to move forward. We separated for 6 months and got back together. If anything, I felt our relationship got stronger. As bad as this sounds. I felt the affair helped our marriage in a way. It made me understand her more. Things were revealed to me about her past that helped both of us to become stronger. But like I mentioned before, life raising 5 children can be stressful. At times I became verbally abusive. I didn't help out enough around the house. I feel I could have done more.

15th year of marriage. The past couple months, I noticed a change in her. She seemed different. All of a sudden I started to see red flags from 7 years ago. I asked her several times if there was something going on. of course she denied any funny business going on. I saw the signs but keep telling myself that I must be going crazy. Especially, since after the last affair, she earned my trust back. Well, a week and 1/2 ago we get into an argument about the condition of the house. for the last couple months I started to notice how certain things were not getting done in the house. It didn't help that she has been very harsh with me for just the little things that I would ask her. In turn I would get upset and it become a big argument. She also seemed like she was distancing from me. Which hurt me a lot so that caused even more problems for us. 

Well, at the time she said she wanted a divorce which caught me by surprise. Not even a chance of working anything out. She told me she wanted her own place, her own money, and do her own thing. I already felt this was just BS. I knew it was because she was probably just cheating on me again. Everything she was saying to me was the same things she told me when she had her last affair. But this time she was leaving me and the children. I had to talk her into trying to make this work, not only for me but for the kids. As much as I knew that most likely that the trust was gone. I wanted to at least try. All she did was tell me what she wanted me to hear. She was still trying to protect herself. Trickle-truth is all I got. Lies after lies. It was until after 8 days later when I notice how she wouldn't show me her phone, so I told her either we work this out or show me the phone. Well even then she couldn't say anything to me. I practically guessed everything right with just her nodding her head and the occasional yes. What killed me the most was when she said she loved him. How she wasn't willing to give him up. I keep telling her that she was just in a fog. That that this bum was just a predator feeding on women with marriage problems. That he was just telling her all the things she wanted to hear and that her brief time with this guy was not worth a marriage of 15 years and 5 children. She couldn't understand and didn't want to listen to me. After a couple days of talking things through I finally got her to stop all contact with him in order to reconcile from this. 

Well 2 days ago I was next to her when she text him to say it was over between them now. This guy she claimed loved her doesn't respond back until 6 hours later with. "ok" "So you are getting back with your ex?" "Is this what your saying?" I told her to not call or text him back. that it was over. She listened to me. But the he texts her back hours later with,"Don't contact me again you crazy POS." With that last text from him it seemed as the fog started to lift. It was like she was starting to wake up. Well, I felt we were going in the right direction even so it was still too early to tell. I felt we had a chance to try to improve on our relationship and if it didn't work out in the end. Hopefully, we could become a better person to whoever we end up. We were planning to seek IC and MC. And make changes in our lives. 

All of this changed when I found out from my brother that 3 weeks ago she borrowed money from him, telling him she was planning to get me something for father's day. My brother was the one that pulled me aside and asked me if she bought me anything. I told him no. And truthfully, I can't remember one time, in the 15 years of our marriage that she has went out of her way of getting me anything. I gotten her things in the past all the time. This is not about materialistic things. It hurt me deep inside knowing the sign of affectation she showed for this bum she only knew for 3 months was more than what she has shown me through out our years together. It also hurt me that when I checked the date of which she did this, it was when we were struggling financially that week. After this I lost my temper and yelled at her. Something I promised myself not to do this time around. I just told her it was over. I think I felt it was already doomed but finding out what I did last night kind of confirmed it for me.

I'm so broken right now. I know I have to be strong for the kids and I have support of of family. I've found god again, which is the only good thing that came out of all this. I think right now I know I'm angry but I don't think I care anymore what happens to her. I feel I need to protect myself now. 

I know this is long but I needed to vent. I know everything I'm saying might just be emotional but I can't understand why she would put us through this again.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)




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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

Yes. You're right. I wanted to say that also in my post. Seems like karma came back to me and I am getting exactly what I deserve. All of this is my fault.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

Sorry you're here. It sounds like the damage has been done. I'm not trying to put you down, But a woman never forgets being cheated on. My H of 34 years cheated on me last year & even after all the Great years we've had together, The betrayal is what shines the brightest to me. I can't say I haven't thought about what it would be like now. Before it never crossed my mind. It changes who you are. Good luck to, I'm sorry you're hurting...


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

TrustlostHearbroken said:


> I just told her it was over. I think I felt it was already doomed but finding out what I did last night kind of confirmed it for me.
> 
> I'm so broken right now. I know I have to be strong for the kids and I have support of of family. I've found god again, which is the only good thing that came out of all this. I think right now I know I'm angry but I don't think I care anymore what happens to her. I feel I need to protect myself now.
> 
> I know this is long but I needed to vent. I know everything I'm saying might just be emotional but I can't understand why she would put us through this again.


Sounds like you want to reconcile... What you should be doing is filing for divorce. She's using your confessed affair as a license to fvck whomever she wants for the rest of her life. You can't continue to blame yourself. Plenty of us married serial cheaters like your wife and we never cheated. They just come up with different "excuses" but that's all it is. She was willing to leave you AND the kids for him?!? Hate to tell you this but she checked out YEARS ago. Maybe it was partially due to your actions but her acting like the village bicycle is 100% on her. The OM was right about one thing. She is a crazy POS. 

You need to bail and start over. This relationship burned to the ground long ago. Time to throw in the towel. No one can say you didn't try at least. Some things just can't be saved. Do the 180, hit the gym, lawyer up, save yourself.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Sorry you're here, TlHbB. Let's see if I've got the timeline correct:

Known the POS 3 months
1 1/2 weeks ago: she asks for divorce
2 days ago: she goes No Contact
1 day ago: You find out something that she did in the early stages of the affair?

Bear in mind you're going to be on the famous rollercoaster of emotions, but do you think you're not being a little rash?

People do the most hurtful things imaginable to their spouses during their affairs. It hurts to think that a cheating spouse will pay their partner no regard in an affair, but that's the nature of the beast.

What was you WW's response to you saying it's over?


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## MyTurn (Oct 27, 2013)

TH,
start the 180 and file for D.
Little IC also will benefit you.

If she is remorseful (and you still want to give it a shot) , then it's up to her
to do the hard work to be the best wife she should/could be and convince you 
that she IS worth the shot.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

No one deserves to be cheated on. You did wrong in your first year and eventually confessed. You two committed to R and she decides to start banging away after a while.

You deserved to lose your marriage after you cheated.

You did not deserve to be strung along for years while your wife sampled other men.

Might want to DNA your kids.

It takes two to make it work. She checked out.

You don't really want someone that is more committed to a loser than her husband, do you?

She even borrowed money from your brother to buy a gift for her walking dildo?

She was ready to walk away from her kids to satisfy her crotch monster?

Let her walk. 

Not really much there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I think to some degree you are right that you brought some of this on yourself. I personally don't think to wrongs make a right. She has cheated on you twice and I doubt that this marriage is really going to last. I know that is hard and you should feel some guilt from this but you also need to do whats right for your kids. Staying in a marriage that is unhealthy is not what is best for the kids. It would be one thing if she just did it once out of revenge but her doing it again this long apart from the first time makes it clear she is not invested in the marriage like you would like. 

I would get into counceling and start 180. I would at least talk to a lawyer and start looking at your options for getting out. 

I bet if you stay married you will end up regretting that decision too. 

Clay


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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

I'm sorry to those who been hurt by an affair. I know I have no right at all to expect any sympathy. I am just getting what I deserve and I accept this as my fault. I was a WH. And I wish I could have been smarter back then. I have to take care of my children. I know that the trust is gone now and that I have to move forward. Maybe I was rash but I think earlier this week that I felt it was already over and I was just being foolish again to think there might be a chance that she will change. I just don't think it will be a healthy relationship if I will be constantly checking up on her all the time. I'm so stupid and selfish for what I have done in the past.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

TrustlostHearbroken said:


> I just don't think it will be a healthy relationship if I will be constantly checking up on her all the time. I'm so stupid and selfish for what I have done in the past.


SO why not tell her just that?

That you refuse to check up on her, that she is free to "F" anyone that she wants to. 

Just not as your wife.

Tell her the marriage is too damaged from both of you and you feel it is in both of your best interests to divorce.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Your wife didnt do this becasue you cheated in the first year of your marriage. She stayed and had five kids. Shes now had two, at least, affairs. Shes a serial cheater. She was going to leave her kids. She cant be fixed.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> Sounds like you want to reconcile... What you should be doing is filing for divorce. *She's using your confessed affair as a license to fvck whomever she wants for the rest of her life. *You can't continue to blame yourself. Plenty of us married serial cheaters liked your wife who never cheated. They just come up with different "excuses" but that's all it is. She was willing to leave you AND the kids for him?!? Hate t tell you this but she checked out YEARS ago. Maybe it was partially due your actions but her acting like the village bicycle is 100% on her. The OM was right about one thing. She is a crazy POS.
> 
> You need to bail and start over. This relationship burned to the ground long ago. Time to throw in the towel. No one can say you didn't try at least. Some things just can't be saved. Do the 180, hit the gym, lawyer up, save yourself.


I agree.

*"She's using your confessed affair as a license to fvck whomever she wants for the rest of her life. "*


I understand that you cheated first (as far as you know) but you confessed, made a good faith effort and she got more than even. You deserved that.

At that point the karma bus has done its thing and you both agreed to start over on your marriage. Then she crapped on it. Now the karma bus is looking for her.

Your wife doesn’t think like you. You had an affair, felt guilty and confessed. You wife doesn’t feel as guilty as you because she never confessed. 

Tell your wife that you’re going to DNA your kids and note her reaction. You will be testing her and not the kids. 

If you want to actually do it you can buy a kit at Walmart, Amazon or about any drug store for about $30. You use a Q-tip to swab the inside of your cheek and the kid’s. Then you send the kit to a lab with $130 more.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

Double post. Sorry


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> Your wife didnt do this becasue you cheated in the first year of your marriage. She stayed and had five kids. Shes now had two, at least, affairs. Shes a serial cheater. She was going to leave her kids. She cant be fixed.


Exactly.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm confused....



> My wife and I have been married for 15 years, raised 5 children. 4 are mine. 1 was from a previous relationship she had


Is your wife the biological mother of your 4 children? Or are these 4 children from a previous relationship of yours?


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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

When I met my wife, she had a 1 year old daughter. We had 4 children throughout our 15 years of marriage. I would do a DNA test but the 4 I had with her have a lot of my features for me to think otherwise. And in any case. I really don't care if by chance they are not. I love those kids and I'm their father and always will look at it that way. 
I cheated on my wife the first year and never did so again due to guilt. I was selfish and stupid. Whether or not there were only 2 affairs. I will never know and don't think I want to know. These 2 are enough to know we were wrong to keep this marriage up just for the children. We both screwed up and everyone is right. It's just time for me to face reality. I hope to go to IC and try to see what I did wrong and fix myself. Not only for me but so I can get my mind thinking clearly and raise my children the best that I can. 
Yesterday was the first day of separation and I need to document everything that has happened the past 2 weeks and use a clear head and not an emotional one. I will try to consult a lawyer to find out what steps I should be doing. 
As far as what her reaction was yesterday when I told her to leave. She was angry at the fact I made her break contact with the om. And mad I was not willing to give this another try. And then she left. I noticed from the start when all of this was found out. She did not seem as remorseful as the first time. Only when the om called her a POS did she start feeling stupid for falling for him. She told me that it was like she didn't know him. From what she told me about him. He seemed like one of those typical predators that prey on women with troubled marriages. I mean. What kind of guy asked a woman that he knows has 5 kids with a limited income for a pair of $200+ pair of shoes. He didn't even buy her anything in return.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Just divorce. End it. She's not going to be faithful and you set the tone for the marriage early on. You both have hurt each other enough. Try to divorce as amicably as possible for the sake of the kids.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

TrustlostHearbroken said:


> When I met my wife, she had a 1 year old daughter. We had 4 children throughout our 15 years of marriage. I would do a DNA test but the 4 I had with her have a lot of my features for me to think otherwise. And in any case. I really don't care if by chance they are not. I love those kids and I'm their father and always will look at it that way.
> I cheated on my wife the first year and never did so again due to guilt. I was selfish and stupid. Whether or not there were only 2 affairs. I will never know and don't think I want to know. These 2 are enough to know we were wrong to keep this marriage up just for the children. We both screwed up and everyone is right. It's just time for me to face reality. I hope to go to IC and try to see what I did wrong and fix myself. Not only for me but so I can get my mind thinking clearly and raise my children the best that I can.
> Yesterday was the first day of separation and I need to document everything that has happened the past 2 weeks and use a clear head and not an emotional one. I will try to consult a lawyer to find out what steps I should be doing.
> As far as what her reaction was yesterday when I told her to leave. She was angry at the fact I made her break contact with the om. And mad I was not willing to give this another try. And then she left. I noticed from the start when all of this was found out. She did not seem as remorseful as the first time. Only when the om called her a POS did she start feeling stupid for falling for him. She told me that it was like she didn't know him. From what she told me about him. He seemed like one of those typical predators that prey on women with troubled marriages. I mean. What kind of guy asked a woman that he knows has 5 kids with a limited income for a pair of $200+ pair of shoes. He didn't even buy her anything in return.


Is he married? If so, it may have been his wife that sent her the text calling her a POS.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Do talk to a lawyer asap. Most will give you a free initial consultation where you can get some basic questions answered about how things work in your area for people in your situation.

Also visit dadsdivorce.com and look for "the list". It gives excellent ideas on how to protect yourself and your parental rights.


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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

*Re: Re: Two Strikes. I'm out.*



GusPolinski said:


> Is he married? If so, it may have been his wife that sent her the text calling her a POS.


He's not married. He's has 2 kids from 2 different women. So I'm pretty sure it was him but who knows. Maybe he has a girl on the side which is why he probably didn't answer right away to her text.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Stick to your guns and just move on. Your better learning from this experience and focusing on being a great dad than you are trying to stay with someone like that. Your not seeing remorse because there is none. She feels entitled to do what she has done just like most of the others you see or hear about. There is no point in even trying to talk to her. Just focus on you and starting your new life. 

Clay


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Just divorce. End it. She's not going to be faithful and you set the tone for the marriage early on. You both have hurt each other enough. Try to divorce as amicably as possible for the sake of the kids.


And if she leaves you and the children, she gets to pay child support.

Wonder how her POS lover will like that reality?

Oh. Do have him checked out on the Sex Offender's Register. Lots of sex predators target women with children. Even married women with children.


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## vox.populi (Aug 8, 2013)

Hey man. Keep your chin up. You are a father, a provider and a dependable man. I've been in your shoes twice these past few years. When you convince her to leave you and the kids, those painful shoes of yours are going to come off. You'll be able to relax. You'll be able to breath. You can take that aggression out on the punching bag or the bench press and then get back to your kids, dinner, your hobbies, the swimming hole. You just need to get that ***** out of you and the children's home. Be nice about it. Let it sink in gradually.

Our marriage lasted 18 years. My new girlfriend is better looking, more intelligent, and successful. I have 3 kids. She has 3 kids. Our love life is electric. She came over for Father's Day. We made Cheesecake, pecan smoked pig flesh, and homemade ice cream. My kids were happy the whole time.

The cheating ex wife....she signs the paperwork I put in front of her. Work out your differences and divorce can be cheap and easy.

Lastly, if your's was a home maker and you never got a [email protected]#$#@$% Father's Day gift then....dude. You can probably cook, clean, and wipe noses better than her sorry ass could while courting a better quality mate simultaneously.

I bet your life improves without her; living proof right here.


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## vox.populi (Aug 8, 2013)

TrustlostHearbroken said:


> ...
> Yesterday was the first day of separation and I need to document everything that has happened the past 2 weeks and use a clear head and not an emotional one. I will try to consult a lawyer to find out what steps I should be doing....


If she has left then you may try to forgo *retaining *council. Talk to a lawyer sure but... If she is free to do as she wants and isn't under attack then you might do what I did. File the case at the courthouse nice and friendly like with her notarized signature. She can have the stupid dishes or whatever. Then you can talk to a divorced lady from your state or county, someone with a platoon of kids like yours, and perhaps she will share her decree with you. Someone out there like her has already spent thousands fighting it out with legal council involved. Maybe you don't have to; assuming your STBX has left you and the kids. The logic there is that some blood sucking shark is going to take $$$ that you use to feed your children and that upstanding guy or gal is going to make a payment on their stupid luxury car. Your STBX may agree up front that the best thing for the kids is to make this divorce happen all by yourself. Like my less than virtuous ex, yours may actually trust you not to twist the children's brains or keep them away from her. You cooperated in all child raising decisions for 15 years. You can keep doing just that if you maintain your cool.

If you bought into that crap that children belong with their mother *always* and you left, well...then...score one for women of lesser integrity. I digress. Good luck to you.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I don't think your wife ever forgave you for your affair. It changes a person's perceptions of their spouse forever. It seems like she is trying to find a safety net so she feels comfortable leaving you. 

I just read your history and I don't like you as a spouse. With five kids, I might do the same thing. 

You two should divorce on the best terms possible for the sake of the kids and move on. She doesn't love you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Rugs said:


> I don't think your wife ever forgave you for your affair. It changes a person's perceptions of their spouse forever. It seems like she is trying to find a safety net so she feels comfortable leaving you.
> 
> I just read your history and I don't like you as a spouse. With five kids, I might do the same thing.
> 
> You two should divorce on the best terms possible for the sake of the kids and move on. She doesn't love you.


You would really start banging idiots and want to leave your children for your walking dildo?

Impressive..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She's offering to give you the kids.

Take that (in writing) and run with it. SOME day down the road, she may realize what a putz she is and come back to you in remorse - if you're still available - and you can set rules for her. 

For now, take the kids and move on from this serial cheater. Don't let the kids learn to be serial cheaters, too, by watching this happen over and over.


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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

*Re: Re: Two Strikes. I'm out.*



Rugs said:


> I don't think your wife ever forgave you for your affair. It changes a person's perceptions of their spouse forever. It seems like she is trying to find a safety net so she feels comfortable leaving you.
> 
> I just read your history and I don't like you as a spouse. With five kids, I might do the same thing.
> 
> You two should divorce on the best terms possible for the sake of the kids and move on. She doesn't love you.


What your saying is fair rugs. I have no room to talk abput faithfulness. I screwed the first year of marriage. In a way I wish the marriage would have ended the first year. Just so I wouldn't have went through all this. But then again, if I was given a 2nd chance. I don't think I would because these children are my life, they are my world. I would suffer any pain for them. I love my kids. So if me and her were never really meant for each other, then so be it. These five kids are irreplaceable. 

Well, I just found out new information. I don't even want to confirm any of it with her because she will just give me more lies. This guy she says she just met a couple months ago was all bs. She has known him for years. They have flirted on and off but started an EA last year. Which would explain why she told me why she felt the marriage was over last year. So she was actually talking to him back then and who knows when it became physical. For some reason I'm not even remotely mad. Maybe it explains why it made no sense why she told me she fell in love with him after just one month. Whatever, this really doesn't matter anymore to me. I already made up my mind. We both screwed up and if I am really the blame for all this. Then it is only right that I end what I started. Thank you all for your honest responses and good advice. I know that I only have two goals now. That is to fix myself and raise these kids the best I can. Fortunately I have strong family support. She won't even reach out to her family because she is too embarrassed to.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ok, so if you're willing to move on, here's the one key thing to remember (we've seen it all): If she is willing to sign over the kids - right now, while she's hot and heavy to move into her lovenest with Loverboy - TAKE HER UP ON IT in front of a lawyer. Like TOMORROW. 

Cheating women - who typically only move on if they think they're in love, with their soulmate (gag me) - will often give you everything, just to get to be 'in love' with their new man. They'll walk away from kids, money, retirement accounts, just to be in that lovenest.

So let her.

See your lawyer tomorrow, by NOON. Please trust us, time is your enemy here. Do it quick, do it now, do it THIS WEEK. Before she changes her mind. Before she realizes she's giving up child support money.

Get it signed.

You can always reconcile later if things change. But for now, get it legal. Kids stay with you.


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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

I believe I have done what was most important from a WH. That was to never do it again. As much as it has hurt me the first time. She deserved a 2nd chance because of what I have done. She could have just walked away. But she was the one determined to make things work. I was ready to just let the marriage end. She told me that it would never happen again. Thus, why I was able to bulk trust in her again. I know now that this time though it is on her. Not me and any person who would say that they would do this with 5 children and be ok to abandon them make me sick. If you want to leave your partner, by all means then go. But to leave your kids for a life to pretend your young and single. I have no words for that.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

This is an awful scenario with poor innocent kids stuck in the middle. You really did mess up in the first year and probably destroyed whatever trust she had in you. But as the saying goes, two wrongs never made a right, but she seems to want to really hurt you back, there is something very dysfunctional about all of this and so it goes in circles. I know the advice you are getting is to leave, divorce, etc but have you considered getting any help first, before you throw in the towel. You cannot discount the effect of you cheating in the first year of marriage, you put her over the edge, she hasn't trusted you or given her all to you from day one. I wonder how much you did in order to 'win' her back and really take away the uncertainty from your relationship. What age is your wife?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

aine said:


> You cannot discount the effect of you cheating in the first year of marriage, you put her over the edge, she hasn't trusted you or given her all to you from day one. I wonder how much you did in order to 'win' her back and really take away the uncertainty from your relationship. What age is your wife?


He made it quite clear that he doesn't discount the effect of his cheating on her. But look at the following.

He cheated first, she gave him another chance.
She cheated later, he gave her another chance.
She cheats again, he refuses to give her another chance. 

Why should he give her another chance when she's not even remotely remorseful?

She's not a child so when is she going to own up her choices?

If the roles were reversed and the OP was a woman, I would tell her "No more chances, divorce your serial WH".


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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

aine said:


> This is an awful scenario with poor innocent kids stuck in the middle. You really did mess up in the first year and probably destroyed whatever trust she had in you. But as the saying goes, two wrongs never made a right, but she seems to want to really hurt you back, there is something very dysfunctional about all of this and so it goes in circles. I know the advice you are getting is to leave, divorce, etc but have you considered getting any help first, before you throw in the towel. You cannot discount the effect of you cheating in the first year of marriage, you put her over the edge, she hasn't trusted you or given her all to you from day one. I wonder how much you did in order to 'win' her back and really take away the uncertainty from your relationship. What age is your wife?


My wife is 39 years old. She will be turning 40 by the end of the year. As far as "winning her back", I pretty much did the 180 and focused on myself when she cheated on me the first time. I told myself if she wanted this life with the kids, then I would try to make it work. Only if it was what she wanted. During that time apart I encouraged her go out and seek counseling. We found out certain things in her past that might of caused the infidelity. I'm sure me cheating the first year was one of them. She really had a hard life growing up. Her parents divorced when she was young and certain things that has happened in her life that I don't want to disclose. 

As for the 2nd affair, I told her that it would be best that she goes to IC again and try to figure out why this is happening again. She even admitted that she does not know why she does what she does. I actually feel obligated to make sure she does get IC. Not for me, but for the kids sake.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

TrustlostHearbroken said:


> We found out certain things in her past that might of caused the infidelity. I'm sure me cheating the first year was one of them. She really had a hard life growing up. Her parents divorced when she was young and certain things that has happened in her life that I don't want to disclose.
> 
> As for the 2nd affair, I told her that it would be best that she goes to IC again and try to figure out why this is happening again. She even admitted that she does not know why she does what she does. *I actually feel obligated to make sure she does get IC. * Not for me, but for the kids sake.


Sounds like you are implying sexual abuse. That can cause a lot of problems with attachment and other issues. It doesn't doom her to a life of dysfunction, but she would need to be very determined to overcome it. 

I don't think it is your responsibility (or place) to 'make sure" she gets IC. She is your STBX, and you are a codependent who wants to fix her. She fired you though, and doesn't want your help. I think you should suggest it, but don't nag, don't beg, and don't offer to pay. If _she_ wants it, there is all kinds of help available.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"I just read your history and I don't like you as a spouse. With five kids, I might do the same thing."

Well, if OP is a disgusting POS for cheating in the first year of M (and he is...and he admits it), his WW is an even lower and more revolting cheat.

Personally, I don't mind RA's....there is nothing wrong with giving a cheat a taste of their own medicine....and I can see WW's first A as an RA, despite the fact there was a several year delay in her doing it. I totally get that her resentment at his A finally pushed her to give him some payback.

That said, then they both worked to R based on the understanding that they both had done unforgivable things and were building a new M on the wreckage of the old.

This lasted for SEVEN years (well, six if OP is right that she started an EA with POSOM a year ago)...there is absolutely ZERO revenge/payback aspect to the crap she has just pulled.

She is an even bigger POS than he ever was IMO....by the time of her 2nd A, they both already knew the devastation of cheating to their M and family.

OP learned his lesson and refrained from ever doing it again....living in fidelity to his WW.

His worthless WW, in contrast, can't seem to keep her legs together in order to not destroy her M and children.

And you think OP is the one who deserves derision and, based on the second part of your statement, being cheated on?....after all, you suggest you'd do the same.

UnFu*kingBelievable.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Vulcan2013 said:


> Sounds like you are implying sexual abuse. That can cause a lot of problems with attachment and other issues. It doesn't doom her to a life of dysfunction, but she would need to be very determined to overcome it.
> 
> I don't think it is your responsibility (or place) to 'make sure" she gets IC. She is your STBX, and you are a codependent who wants to fix her. She fired you though, and doesn't want your help. I think you should suggest it, but don't nag, don't beg, and don't offer to pay. If _she_ wants it, there is all kinds of help available.


If it is child sex abuse, Vulcan is 100% correct she would need to be very determined to overcome it. This is not something one casually resolves. It takes years of intensive trauma therapy with a qualified specialist.

CSA is one of the highest risk factors for becoming a cheater. I believe it is due to the inability to attach emotionally, plus some distorted ideas about sex/sexuality.

If she does have CSA (or rape as a teen, or other serious trauma), you are a Secondary Survivor. You should do a little research on this, and seek some therapy yourself.

One thing that Secondaries tend to do is become co-dependent or overly focused on their partner's well being. I, for example, had set an absolute line in the sand in my mind about conditions for continuing my marriage. When my wife then sprung on me her CSA (which I didn't know about for 29 years of marriage), I backed off and didn't pull the plug. I went through a lot of agony and bs in the marriage because I was concerned about how much her CSA was playing into all of it, and what could I do to help her.

Spouses of alcoholics can end up doing the same thing, too.

The bottom line is that while our spouses deserve our compassion for whatever trauma they have experienced, they are responsible for seeking treatment and for working _hard_ to overcome it. *You* are entitled to a psychologically healthy spouse who is the best they can be. They are obligated to work hard to be that person. We Secondaries might make slight allowances for their issues, but too often we hang on way too long and allow far too much non-sense from them.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Many of the comments here suggest that marriage is like a scoreboard.

He cheats, she cheats - that evens the score
She cheats (again) - dump her as she is a POS, another solution would be for him to cheat that would even the score, problem solved! 

As I said before, the OP cannot discount the impact of his cheating in the FIRST year of marriage. If his WH has problems from childhood (alluded to here) then his actions have
played havoc with her emotionally and psychologically. She thought she could settle the score but probably found out life doesn't work like this and cheating creates an even bigger mess. She is lost.
Thor has hit the nail on the head, your WH needs help to become healthy. It is your choice to be there or not.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

aine said:


> Many of the comments here suggest that marriage is like a scoreboard.
> 
> He cheats, she cheats - that evens the score
> She cheats (again) - dump her as she is a POS, another solution would be for him to cheat that would even the score, problem solved!
> ...


My $0.02

Your old lady loves some one else, why should she get help?

Just let her go, then if she gets the help she needs.....she just might start to think twice in what she is losing.

Moving on just might get her to second guess her choices and get the help she needs to affair proof her marriage and clean up this mess.

Until then forget about it...your old lady loves another guy!


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

aine,

I don't see it as a score card....but after her RA (as I see it), they both committed to building a new M.

AND IT WORKED...for 7 (maybe 6 based on when the EA with POSOM#2 started) they were in successful R.

There is no da*n way, IMO, that his WW can ever claim to go back to his A as an excuse for her SECOND A...that's just bullsh*t blameshifting.

She is a worthless cheat....she DEFINITELY knew better given their marital history and the problems they had overcome.

OP....kick her to the curb....she is too selfish to waste one more minute of your life on.


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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

Dyokemm said:


> aine,
> 
> I don't see it as a score card....but after her RA (as I see it), they both committed to building a new M.
> 
> ...



Well, I did kick her out last Sunday. As I mentioned on a previous post. It was after I found out she had lied to my brother, she borrowed money telling him she was planning something for me on father's day but in truth it was to buy this low life a pair of limited edition Jordons. By the way, I remember that day too, she told me she was spending time with one of her girlfriends but she was in fact heading out to the city to go pick them up. She also didn't seem to show much remorse. Also, the fact that I found out that she had known this guy for a while and her admitting she felt like leaving a year ago, lets me know she is still telling me nothing but lies. She is still in a fog. From the way she is acting, to me she has still not taken full responsibility for her actions and that I was somewhat the blame why she turned to another man. I'm not an alcoholic, drug user, or a violent person. I'm the main provider for the family and have never wavered in making sure the bills were paid and there was food. All I need from her was help with the stuff for the kids and some of the bills. There's a reason she had plans to leave them with me. She knows I'm a good dad. If anything I complimented her almost everyday and told her I loved her every opportunity I get, ever since her A 7 years ago. I felt our love life was good but it died down a little in the past year. I thought it was due to us getting older and stress from raising the kids. 

So on Sunday. Father's day!!! I told her to give her friend a call and leave the house. Told her that the kids are here and will always be here for her to see at anytime. I will not keep the kids from seeing her, I have no problem if at one point they want to live with her. Provided she has a safe and livable environment. Not once has she made any attempt to bring any of the kids with her, this made me mad because it seemed as if they would have burdened her. I have a hard time imagining a mother who would be ok with leaving behind any of her children. Well, I have scheduled a consultation with a lawyer and found out it takes 6 months of separation until we can file for divorce. That is only if we both agree. It can take up to 2 years if we don't. I've also set up an appointment for counseling for myself. I only suggested to her to do the same but I will not pressure her to and don't care anymore if she does. I have these kids to take care of and have no time for her issues. It is end of quarter at work, which is when the company is at it's busiest. So all these appointments I had to set next week. I failed with the 180 yesterday. She sends me a text with pictures of us and the kids taken years ago, I ended up crying and had to take some time to get my composure back. I didn't want any of my co-workers to see me like this. Well, what came next pissed me off. She did all that just so she can ask me for the car. We have 2 cars and one is under my name and the other was given to us by my mother as a gift. I was angry at the fact she used those pictures to make me weak again. She then gets mad and tells me that, "We are enemies now." I thought to myself, "I don't even wish upon my enemies the type of hurt she has just caused me." 

For the record. When she told me that she didn't love me anymore and wanted to live her own life. I had no problem giving the car to her. I was going to transfer the title. But when I found out it was just another A and that she was leaving the kids with me. I told her that you can go and ask your the man you love for help and that she will no longer get any help from me with this so called "New Life" of hers. I don't even want money to pay for the charges she made with the credit cards or any help with the kids. I can handle it myself. I can't even consider the thought of R until she wakes up and realizes what she has done again. For that, I have to break all contact and just respond to anything that has to do with the kids. She won't weaken me again, I won't allow it. 180 it is then.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

TLHB

Get strong. Follow the rules and keep contact with her limited to the kids.

Definitely keep the meeting with the lawyer and protect yourself and the kids.

Your wife needs to face reality all on her own.

HM


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## vox.populi (Aug 8, 2013)

aine said:


> She is lost.
> Thor has hit the nail on the head, your WH needs help to become healthy. It is your choice to be there or not.


NOT

CSA & Secondary Survivor Codependency are slimy sticky oozy layers of excuses that she shouldn't be allowed to drizzle all over the tops of your children's emotional well being. Screw her baggage. Neither you nor I need the guilt of having stood aside while these long term helpless walking wounded destroyers hoisted their guilt trips onto our children.

She needs to go and deal with her problems in the manner she chose; without her provider.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
You must come to grips with the fact that you actually have 6 children to deal with. The sad truth is that Your wife is far too immature to be in a committed, monogamous relationship. With 5 children and tough financial times she borrows money to purchase sneakers for an affair partner? Forget about you, she did not even consider the possible consequences to her children. These are not the acts of a mature, rational adult but rather what one would expect from an 8 yo.

My advice is to sit your wife down and calmly, showing as much indifference as possible, explain to her that her actions are not befitting those of a mother, let alone a wife and that you must therefore find someone capable of mature, rational thought thereby allowing her to pursue her relationship with the sneaker wearing father of children from multiple women, who refers to her as a POS. That will most certainly be a long lasting, fruitful relationship full of love and mutual respect, which any mature thinking, rational person would easily recognize.

I fear your wife is a lost cause and suggest you double up your efforts to severe your marriage with her and concentrate on your children. They need you more now than ever. I wish you strength and good fortune.

ETA:
Regarding confronting and exposure, as I see it those would only be necessary if you had some hope of R. Absent that hope then I really see no need nor benefit save telling the OM's wife so she can make her own decisions. Your wife and he seem well suited for each other and if you have no desire to "win her back", which I do not believe possible, then why not just let them have each other. Some have said she has played you for a fool but you are not the one ruining your life over such an obviously shallow and immature individual. Trust me, you are not the fool in this.


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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

I don't think I want to know anything else from her. I really don't care and I don't think learning more information would help. I know for a fact she has said awful things about me. Maybe to try and justify her affair. I don't even think she has even been truthful to her friends. Most likely she telling all of them I kicked her out only because she told me she doesn't love me anymore. The truth was I kept telling her we would see if we could work things out. It wasn't until I started realizing that nothing but lies were coming out of her mouth. Then when I told myself enough is enough. I pretty sure I'm done with this chapter of my life. It seems like the days are getting better now. It's almost as if I can breath comfortably for the first time in weeks.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

TrustlostHearbroken said:


> I don't think I want to know anything else from her. I really don't care and I don't think learning more information would help. I know for a fact she has said awful things about me. Maybe to try and justify her affair. I don't even think she has even been truthful to her friends. Most likely she telling all of them I kicked her out only because she told me she doesn't love me anymore. The truth was I kept telling her we would see if we could work things out. It wasn't until I started realizing that nothing but lies were coming out of her mouth. Then when I told myself enough is enough. *I pretty sure I'm done with this chapter of my life.* It seems like the days are getting better now. It's almost as if I can breath comfortably for the first time in weeks.


Bro, if one picture could reduce you to a simpering wreck, what do you think will happen if she gives you the full treatment, crying begging for a second chance and refusing to leave the house..she hasn't cottoned on to that, she can move back in anytime she wants and you can't remove her.

Right now you've got a lot of anger fueling you, but you will crash and the doubts will creep in. I urge you to record everything she's saying and doing, it will help you with the divorce and it will also aid you in remembering the person she is and the way she was treating you.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

TrustlostHearbroken said:


> I failed with the 180 yesterday


Very few BS can implement the 180 successfully the first couple of times. For most it takes several attempts before they are successful and achieve emotional detachment. So cut yourself some slack.



> She sends me a text with pictures of us and the kids taken years ago


Now why did she do this? Is it because things may not be working out for her and the OM and she wants to soften your heart enough for you to take her back? Seldom do actions such as this have no ulterior motives and you best be on your guard for any emotional manipulation on her part.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Now why did she do this?"

She wanted the car IMO...and used manipulation of his emotions to try and get it.

She obviously isn't going to get help from her 'wonderful' POSOM.....this guy is such a f*cking loser he can't even afford to buy himself a pair of Jordans and has to beg her for them.

She really picked a winner.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Update?


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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

As far as an update. Kind of stopped updating this over a month ago since I had a feeling the WW was reading this. Before we separated, I had her read some of these threads to try to open her eyes to the damage she has caused. Of course, I was just a waste of time. I still check TAM daily and try to give some advice to those going through infidelity. Other than IC & my family, TAM has really been helping me pick myself up. Don't know if I would have survived or recovered as quickly as I did. Some of the threads, Especially the old ones that went through a year has really been eye openers for me. I know everyone's situation is different, but it so shocking how the WS patterns are all the same. It's as if there was a manual given to them. 

As I mentioned from the first post. I was a selfish person and had a ONS the very first year we got married. EA & PA are like a foreign language to me. During her first affair. I was actively on SI, but as soon as we got back to together after 6 months. I stopped visiting that site. I did things the wrong way in R. I guess I did some rugsweeping. That was my mistake. I allowed her to do things and not be accountable. Less than a year after R, she started to act like nothing happened and reverted back to her old ways. Something I should have caught. I know this is nothing but hindsight. 

This is not an update but just something I wanted to vent before work. I'll make an update later this evening. Right now, I got to get ready for work and make the kids breakfast before I go.


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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

Well, I'll try to make a brief update. Being a single dad with 4 kids keeps you busy with chores around the house. The oldest one is spending the summer at her father's home. We do this every summer. Though, we both talked about it being in her best interest to live there to finish up senior year. It sucks but I don't want her to have all this drama to affect her schooling. Plus, he is a good dad and I trust him to protect her from the WW. God knows I have my hands full right now and with her being 17 years old now. I don't have to worry about her as much as I do with the younger ones. It is actually an awakening for me of how hard it is for one person to raise these kids. It can bring you stress at the same time gives you joy. I am able to take care of all their needs with some help from my parents and family members. It surprises me how much I am getting done and how I am able to handle it. Because my wife struggled to even get the basic things done around the house. All I can say is, we are doing better without her. Granted, I know the kids still miss seeing their mother. Who can blame them, but I do know they are glad that her constant yelling and awful attitude is no longer around. It breaks my heart how she can just go day to day and act so cold. As much as I am getting used to her not being present, they seem like they are too. It is not supposed to be like this. This was not what I wanted for them. I put up with so much crap from her throughout all these years in order to keep the family together. 

After the 06/24/15, we talked on and off. As much as I tried to keep firm with the 180. It was very difficult due to the children. Like most, I kept pondering with the thought of a possible R. My mind kept changing from wanting to her to not wanting her back. I was planning to meet a lawyer but cancelled because she convinced me that we could handle this ourselves. I know, that was stupid of me. At that point, I wasn't sure if I wanted her back in my life. I was determined to wake her up. I knew she was still in contact with the OM and maybe it was my ego. I wanted to make her realized how much of a POS the OM was and how he was not worth 15 years of marriage. That was a failed attempt. She still wouldn't give him up. She kept saying she was in love with him but loved me too. I knew was being stringed along as plan B. Like I said, I think it was mainly my ego that kept me trying to win her back. I still loved her even so she hurt me. 

She did what most WW did. She would call me with so much affection, then turn cold right away. I would do the 180 then she would break me all over again. I was supposed to go to IC but had to wait until the 07/07/15 since the therapist was on vacation. I tried so many times to convince myself to contact the divorce lawyer referred to me by my company but just didn't have the nerve to. I just didn't have the strength to go through it at time. A part of me wanted her back. I kept clinging on to our memories. I kept blaming myself for all that has happened. I kept thinking to myself that I deserved all this for betraying her when we first got married. Karma came back to me with a Big A$$ Truck! I kept thinking over and over again of how I could have done things differently. I hated myself more than I hated her. 

As much as I was going through this emotional roller coaster, I did my best to not let the kids see me broken. I would not let what she did wreck me to a point where I become a bad father. I made them my main priority in life now. I promised myself that they will always come first. I would do my best to communicate with them and do things with them to get their minds on other things. So far they seem happy, I'm sure that they are sadden with their mother gone but that just makes me want to try harder for them. If I have to be mom & dad for a while, I will be the best Mr. Mom I can be. Growing up from ages 9-13, my father went to prison. My mother was alone raising us and she did her best to raise us and she made so many sacrifices for us. I know I have to do the same and I'm fine with it.

on 06/28/15, I woke up with a sharp pain my lower back. I called my father and he brought me to the emergency room. I was in so much pain I almost passed out. I thought to myself, "Great. My life sh!t right now. Last thing I need is health problems." I remember during this time, I got a text from my WW. I told her I was in the emergency room and was experiencing pain. Her response was. "You'll be fine." That hurt me, maybe even more than the pain I was feeling. I thought she would be more concerned. After 8 hours at the hospital. The doctor told me I had kidney stone, bladder stones, and something on my liver that required a MRI for further examination. While there, I requested an STD test. Got sent home with meds and felt a lot better. Didn't get another text or call from her for the next 2 days.

On 07/02/15, I get a call from my primary Doctor. I was told I had chlamydia. I was shocked & numb, but more than anything. Pissed off. She told me she used protection. I called her up right away and told her she needed to get treated for Chlamydia and that she needed to tell Mr. Chlam that he needed to get treated also. After telling her this, she was angry and ashamed. I thought this news would wake her up for sure. It seemed like it did for a few days. She started contacting me more often and even so I should have been mad at her. I think it was the overflowing of communication that made me weak again to her. Again, I feel stupid now thinking back. We started talking about how we should be friends in order to co-parent the kids. She started talking about having me around with a "friends with benefits" type of relationship. I was not thinking straight at the time. I was just glad she was giving me attention. Stupid. So stupid of me. She was talking about having an open relationship but I couldn't see that at that moment. It was as if I was in a fog. 

That all changed when I went to my first IC. I didn't know what to expect. The therapist made me see how foolish I was. After the first session, I woke up. I knew what I should have done from the start. I realized that all the talks about becoming friends was just a way for my WW to rugsweep what she has done to me. I call her up and told her that we can't continue this relationship and that I was not interested in an open relationship. She went a little crazy. Her plans of keeping me as plan B wasn't going to happen. She then said the most insane thing to me. "I want to have another baby with you." My face turned white. It made me reflect back to when I found out I got her pregnant when we were dating. I was in the US Navy and was going away for 6 months at sea. I asked her to marry me so I could make sure she was taken care of with medical insurance. Then I remembered the times we would go through rough times in our marriage and sure enough, she would be pregnant that same very year. It was as if she thought that having a baby would fix all problems. I told her no. That having a baby was a ridiculous idea. It would do nothing but add more problems. I told her she needed help. She needed to go seek IC on her own to better herself. I ended the conversion by telling her that we are done and that we will only communicate if it concerns the children. I told her since I have the children. She needs to help by giving at least 30% of her checks for now until we can figure out the proper amount. I told her that I will be filing for divorce now. Wished her luck with her new life and that the kids and I will be moving on.

The following weeks have been up and down for me emotionally. I started the 180 and have stuck with it the best I can. I will admit that there were times it was hard but I am doing so much better now. I can recover from triggers much faster. I see a future, a goal for myself and the children. Of course as soon as I told her I was moving on. She went back to the POSOM. Out of the 6 weeks from separation. She has taken the kids with her a total of 4 times. She hardly calls them to see how they are doing. As far as financial support. She has given me only a total of $160. She says that her life is hard and that she has to save money for new apartment. She also feels she shouldn't be held responsible for any of the credit cards she used when we were together. I'm trying my best to not have anymore arguments with her. I'm just making notes of everything that is happening and giving them to my lawyer. 

I have been dropping allot of weight the past 6 weeks. I lost 38 lbs. Before we met, I was always a health freak growing up. Constantly working out. I figure that I'm just reverting back to my old self. It might be because she is not shoving fast food down my throat. I forgot to mention. She hated cooking. Now I mostly cook the food in the kitchen and try to make sure it's healthy. Like I mentioned above, it makes me sad that the kids are getting used to their mom not being around. My mother has always been the back bone of the family. The WW will be missing out on important moments of their life. I pray to god that someday she grows up and wants to be more involved in their lives. 

So far, that's all I can think of for now as an update. I wish I could have kept it up to date as the events happened. I'm pretty sure there are details I forgot about. I just didn't want the WW to know what I was thinking, just in case she was following this thread. I highly doubt that she visits these forums. It would overwhelm her with guilt. Right now she is too selfish to allow herself to hurt. Well, I have to get some sleep. Have to get up early. Make breakfast for the kids. I have another IC appointment tomorrow. Still have more to work on with that.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Good luck and prayers. Work out and take care of yourself. Think of it like a car. Sometimes you can fix it but sometimes you just have to get a new model.


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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

Before I give an update about today's IC, I'll start off with things that happened a few days ago. Early in the separation, I got into a huge argument with the WW about how she needs to spend more time with the kids. She went 2 weeks without seeing them and my daughter was the only one making contact with her. I told her she needed to be the one initiating the calls not the kids. They need to know she was thinking of them, not the other way around. Well, we made an agreement that she would at least pick them up every Sunday. Well two Sundays ago she couldn't pick them up, so she said she'd pick them up on Thursday. She ended up canceling that and said Friday would be better. She cancelled that. At the same time she promised to help me out with groceries. Granted, I am able to handle it myself. I just don't want her to think she doesn't have to contribute. If she is not going to spend much time with them, she should at least help financially. Even if it is not much. I felt she should feel obligated it to. I know I would if it was the other way around. 

Well, she didn't even bother with that. She even complained saying she has other things that are more important right now. I told her how disappointing she was as a mother, a wife, and a human being. I was just disgusted with how she was thinking and just told her give money if you want. Do what you know is only right. Didn't talk to her since then, other than responding "ok" when she picked up the kids on Sunday. NC since Sunday. No money either. I even found out she went out on a date with the OM after she dropped off the kids. So she didn't have money to help out with the kids, but had money to go out with her friends this weekend and a date with the OM. I really hate this B%$#H right now. 

So today I had my IC session. I started off by talking about how angry I was at the WW the past few days. She mentioned that it seemed like I was still expecting change from my WW. She advised me to stop it. She also asked me why I seemed to want my WW to wake up and see what she has done to the marriage. She told me that I tell her that I am ready to move on but my actions and the way I get upset about the things that my WW does in her life say different. A few sessions ago, she told me I had a "Savior" type personality. Maybe one of the reasons I married her when I found out she was pregnant. Also why I tried so hard to keep the marriage together throughout the years, even so my description of our marriage was pretty terrible. I didn't want our children to experience what my WW's experienced when her parents divorced. I wanted to protect her from what I saw would have been a terrible life if I wasn't there. I was young and stupid and thought I could be her "Shining Knight in Armor". The therapist said I can't do that anymore. The WW is no longer the "Damsel" I thought she was. 

Now allot of the things that were said to me was also the same things said here on TAM, over and over again. I knew what I had to do and how I'm supposed to handle it but sometimes it can be a struggle. There is one thing though that my Therapist said to me that for some strange reason. "Enlightened" me? She said that I have to look at my day to day life as the new "Norm". That from the time I wake up to the time I go to sleep, I have to tell myself over and over again. "This is now what will be the normal now for me and the kids." I have to convince myself when I go to my bedroom alone. This is normal. When I eat dinner with the kids. This is normal. When I am with the kids at a family outing. This is normal. This is what is "normal" now in my life. The more I thought about it, the more it made sense to me. Only way I can move on with my life is to accept this new one as "My normal life" now. She told me the reason I was so conflicted was because I kept dwelling on the past memories and now. Refusing to accept it. I longed for something that can never be again. I'm still climbing the mountain, trying to reach the top. After today's IC session, I feel better and at peace right now. Much closer to the top than I was for the last few days.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I really like your therapist. She is a keeper.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Document, document, document everything she does, says, and doesn't do. You'll be wanting this for custody and child support in court. Visit dadsdivorce.com and look for "the list" and other threads about what/how to document.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Go to google and search this phrase.

"Knight in shining Armor syndrome"

It will be enlightening. Your wife is an idiot. But she is no longer your idiot.

Keep the focus on you and your kids.

And I agree your therapist is a keeper.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> I really like your therapist. She is a keeper.


:iagree: :iagree:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

My man, it's past time to move pass your old faults.
You KNOW you did all you could to rebuild a new marriage.
So just let it go !!!

This is not on you. This is on this POS that could walk away from her kids without a backward glance.
You are finally seeing her for what she has ALWAYS been.
It is nothing to do with what you did.
She needed a wallet for her kid, and every time there was trouble with losing her wallet, she popped out another.
Reverse welfare mother dude.

Now she's older, the kids are older, and you are making more.
So now she bails knowing what a good dad you are, and you're able to take care of them.

Just a wallet mom from the start dude. be THANKFUL for the kids, but take her off the deserving list.

Good Luck and God Bless you and the kids.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Let me share something that's not talked about.

In lots of black communities back in the day, there was women popping out kids, and leaving them with different relatives, or just people in the communities.
These wasn't welfare mother. they was just POS's.

I can remember an aunt visiting with her lil girl, going out one night, and not returning for almost a month for that lil girl, who cried constantly, and was very spoiled.
We was being raised by mom and grandma, and thinking we was asleep, they talked about how they didn't know she was going to do this.

I know how these women are, accept her as this type, and love those kids to death my man. YOU, are all they really have and will have as a real parent.

Again, God Bless You !!!


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

OK, so maybe they wasn't POS's, but was so damaged by what they had gone thru coming up, they needed the juke joints and partying to dull their pain. Maybe they didn't know any other way, or have access to anything better, but remember, I was raised by two women with men in an out of our life, so I see it from that point of view, and hands down, they made sure for us.
Yes, I'm a cold blooded person, but I FEEL FOR THE UNDERDOG, and HATE when others are used. Maybe that's why I seldom post on women's page.
When a woman will go out and steal a couple of chickens at night rather than sell herself outright to feed her kids, I have to check myself before posting sometime, when reading about the outright arrogance some ww display.

Get her gone my friend, you was just a wallet.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

I know that the kids are rough to take care of, but she's really given you a great gift

- exposed herself for what she is. You don't need to live with a narcissist anymore. I think you're now seeing that the abuse wasn't just in the form of an affair
- she has given you the gift of spending more time with the kids. On your deathbed do you think you'll look back fondly on the time you were cheating or do you think you'll look back fondly on the time that you helped your child ride a bike for the first time. This is a hard perspective to follow while in the moment, but is a helpful exercise (for me atleast)
- You noticed that you are dropping weight and becoming more like you were before marriage. I think the physical transformation is going to be nothing compared to the mental transformation. It'll be an awesome story of redemption. Those living with narcissists never see the damage that they were being inflicted until WELL out of the relationship. You can even see the physical results of this very fact right before your eyes RIGHT NOW! Listen to your body


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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

Well, had a little setback yesterday. On Thursday I celebrated my youngest son's 9th birthday. Spent it with the kids and my family. Concentrated on just making sure they had fun and didn't even bother thinking about anything but my son's birthday. Though, I won't lie. It bothered me that it was the first of what would be separate occasions for the rest of the lives of my kids. Separate birthdays, holidays, & everything. I hated how she did this to our family. I reinforced what my therapist told me to do. "This is normal now. There is nothing wrong with it. This is my life and the kids. Make the best out of it." I was fine and we had a good time.

Well, she texted me a couple days earlier saying she was picking him up on Friday and dropping off some money to help out. She said she would give extra to make up for missing last week. I didn't respond. I decided that I would only respond if it was a question about the kids or something that required answering. So far it made things easier for me to detach from her. Made the days go by with no problems. There were days I actually felt good for the first time in so long. I was cheerful and positive. 

Come Friday, I wasn't expecting anything. That's another thing I learned in my last session in IC. I had to stop expecting anything from my WS. When I have the mentally to not have any expectations from what my WS says or do, I won't be disappointed. After all, even common sense seems to be asking too much from the WW. Of course, she was unable to pick him up. Granted she has no vehicle. Seems odd though when she does things that are important to her, she finds someway or another to get it done. She texted me asking to borrow my car. I just responded with a no. She responded with a series of excuses. (This is where I was so stupid and got baited into an argument.) I told her. "Sorry, but this is the type of life you chose. It is no longer my position to help you. If you can't pick up our son, then I will take him out. I'm sure you can figure something out. After all, you always find your way when it comes to things that are important to you." That pissed her off. She asked what was wrong with the life she chose. I told her that her selfish actions have forever changed the life's of the kids. That the life she chose is the reason why she is in the situation she is in now. She started to bring up the past. As if giving more valid reasons for her straying. Blame-shifting as much as she could about everything. I highly doubt her IC is doing anything for her. The way she thinks now seems worse than it was before. I just responded with, "You have yet to hold yourself accountable for your actions. You have not taken full responsibility for all your selfish actions. One day you will no longer be able to avoid the guilt and it will come crashing all on top of you. When it does, the kids and I will be far away living much happier lives. Karma will come your way. I don't want to be around when it does." We went on and on til I told her to "F%$K off! Blocking you now. I'm taking our son out now because you couldn't. Worthless mom!" 

I hate how I got into an argument with her. I'm angry with myself for letting her get me like that emotionally. She doesn't deserve any emotions from me. I'm at the stage of anger towards her. I'm trying to get to the stage of indifference. I really need to stop responding period about anything other than the kids. I bet she enjoyed it. Never again. My sister told me that I need to make a fake text to myself whenever I get angry and just let all the frustration all out on that. That way the WW won't get the satisfaction of making me emotional. It has been 7 weeks now. I have to file now. I feel am ready. I know, I'm an idiot and I should have done it from the start. I just couldn't pull the trigger for some reason. I need positive things in my life now and she only brings negative [email protected]


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Don't beat yourself up. You're not doing too shabby at all and if you can control your emotions, your stbxww deserves your derision.

When you can deride her with no pain in your heart and a smile on your face, you will be there.

Until then keep up the good work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

I agree. You're going to slip up and engage once in a while. As long as it doesn't linger and hurt you long term just blow it off.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

OldWolf57 said:


> Let me share something that's not talked about.
> 
> In lots of black communities back in the day, there was women popping out kids, and leaving them with different relatives, or just people in the communities.
> These wasn't welfare mother. they was just POS's.
> ...


One of my buddies from southeast Texas was telling me about a woman in his hometown a few years ago...

He knows her from school. _Very_ small town... everybody knows everybody type of small town. Think Mayberry, though in SETX, and predominantly black.

Anyway, this lady has a TON of kids. TONS of different guys. I don't know if she's a pro or what but the bottom line is that, every time she has a kid, the state more or less shows up and takes custody as a matter of habit. Hell, I'd be surprised if there weren't a documented procedure somewhere for dealing w/ her offspring by this point.

I mean... damn. It ought to be legal to sterilize some people.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Don't beat yourself up. You're not doing too shabby at all and if you can control your emotions, your stbxww deserves your derision.
> 
> When you can deride her with no pain in your heart and a smile on your face, you will be there.
> 
> Until then keep up the good work.





bfree said:


> I agree. You're going to slip up and engage once in a while. As long as it doesn't linger and hurt you long term just blow it off.


Agreed.

Also, I like your therapist.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

" I'm angry with myself for letting her get me like that emotionally."

I don't think there is anything wrong with letting go with some anger directed at her at this stage in your recovery....its best to get it out IMO, and frankly, she deserves to hear exactly the things you unleashed at her.

In her heart, she knows you are speaking truth.

Indifference will come in time....sometimes the anger needs to burn itself out first.

Keep walking the path, my friend.


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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

Not much of an update. More of a vent.

For some reason, I really don't look forward to the weekends like I used to. Not sure whether it is because I don't have work to distract me or that I have to deal with my WW. I really need to pick up a hobby. Before all this crap happened, I really got into photography. It started with me noticing how I wasn't taking as many photos of the family like I did in the early years of our marriage. So I bought a digital camera and learned as much as I could. Even got good at post processing. Now, I hate it because of her. When I look back at the pictures I took of her, it makes me angry. I know now, why she hardly smiled. I know now, why she used to yell at me when I would take a picture of her. (This is from a person who takes several selfies of herself daily) I'm slowly trying to get the passion back. Almost forcing myself to. I would love to travel to the city for a day and just take pictures. Maybe bring one of my kids along and tour Chicago. 

Well, Saturday was the usual. Took the kids with me to my parents so they can play with their cousins. I really want to do more than that but right now, my parents place is my safe zone. Didn't turn out to be a bad day. Talked to my parents and brothers. They are always there to lend me their ears. Let me vent and they offer some suggestions. They were there during the first affair my WW had. They have been nothing but great. My son did get a birthday card from the in-laws that day. It contained $20. I took a picture of him holding it with the card and texted them. Thanking them for sending it and making him smile. They text me back later saying, "Awesome. Be sure to send a picture of what he gets." Now maybe I'm reading the text wrong. It pissed me off. It made me wonder if that's how they see me. A person who would just pocket their son's birthday money. They are asking me to provide them proof? Insulted was how I felt. Another reason I'm glad I won't have nothing to do with them anymore.

I never had a good relationship with them. I remember the first affair. My wife took the girls with her and left the boys with me. Once she went back to her hometown to her ExBf. I could not get a hold of her for a week. I wanted to know what was going on and most importantly, how were the girls doing. I pleaded with her parents (she was staying with them during this time) to let me talked to my kids. They pretty much acted like they didn't care. I even got into an argument with her father. Not only that, when she came down to visit me during our separation. She didn't bother calling them to let them know she was ok. They called the cops and had them search the house. I am not a violent man, I'm not much of a drinker, or take drugs. I do have a temper but it makes me wonder what she must have told them about me. All I could think of is that she must have made me seem like a monster so that they would side with her for straying. 

I decided to just send a picture of the toy my son gets and send a picture of the receipt. I was tempted to send a nasty text back but figured why cause more drama when I won't have to deal with them anymore soon. Sunday came and she picked up the kids. This was my free day and wanted to catch a movie. Well, she told me a couple days ago she was giving me money this week plus extra for missing last week. $40 was all I got. I didn't argue or get angry. This will be all settled in court. I just thanked her and told her to have a great day with the kids. She also mentioned how she was getting a loan this week. In my head I thought, "Great. This woman struggles to give me the proper amount every week to help with the kids. Now she is getting a loan? WTF is wrong with her." I didn't respond to it. Just went to church and tried to enjoy the rest of the day. 

She texted me in the evening that she was dropping the kids off. So far I have been trying to avoid seeing her because of how much I'm hating her right now. Just the sight of her makes me mad. Well, on the way home. I see her driving her friend's car. She was heading in the direction of her "boyfriend's house". There was a cop following her. I just shook my head. She is a awful driver. I remember one time when I was coming home from being out at sea. From the ship. I see her parking the car. As she was parking, she ends up hitting the parked car next to her. The guys next to me saw it too and all laughed. She always liked to drive fast so I'm guessing she was speeding. Which was why the cop was on her tail. She must have been speeding because she missed her BF, spending time with the kids took time away from seeing him. Oh my bleeding heart! 

It did bother me though. I got irritated. Maybe a little jealous. Not because I want her back. Because I'm here making sure my kids are a priority. Fixing myself is a priority. Her having fun is her's. What a B!tch!! I asked my kids how their day went. What they did that day. They said they had fun, which was good. I asked if the OM was there. ( I already told my WW that I didn't want the kids to meet him or spend time with him. Not now when they are still adjusting to all this. ) They said no but did say they saw his car. Only because my wife pointed it out. I also found out she showed them a picture of him on her phone. That irked me a little. I never saw the guy. So you can imagine how I pictured him. Tall and Handsome. Her new "Lancelot". As I mentioned before on this thread. The guy is a loser that earns $8.25 hr, lives with his cousin, pays child support to 2 different women. Oh yeah, had my WW buy him a pair of Special Edition Jordan. (Fakking guy!! I now trigger because of a Fakking shoe brand!!) I asked my D14 how he looked. She told me that she didn't want to be rude, but she thought he was ugly. She doesn't know why mom picked him. I told her, "Because, he was in the right place, at the right time." Who knows. Maybe he is a good looking guy. Maybe he's an Ugly Motherfakker. Doesn't matter much anymore. What my D14 said though made me laugh.

Now I'm not sure if I mentioned this, but when my wife had the A with him. He was in a 3 year relationship with another woman. So I guess they are both POS cheaters. Match made in heaven. They both wandered through life, searching for love in a hopeless place. Until finally, they found each other. Soulmates. BFF's........Good riddance!!! Oh yeah. Got a workout bench and some weights today. Time to put down the booze and diffuse my anger by working out instead. Still climbing that mountain and not turning back until I reach the top.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

TrustlostHearbroken said:


> Not much of an update. More of a vent.
> 
> For some reason, I really don't look forward to the weekends like I used to. Not sure whether it is because I don't have work to distract me or that I have to deal with my WW. I really need to pick up a hobby. Before all this crap happened, I really got into photography. It started with me noticing how I wasn't taking as many photos of the family like I did in the early years of our marriage. So I bought a digital camera and learned as much as I could. Even got good at post processing. Now, I hate it because of her. When I look back at the pictures I took of her, it makes me angry. I know now, why she hardly smiled. I know now, why she used to yell at me when I would take a picture of her. (This is from a person who takes several selfies of herself daily) I'm slowly trying to get the passion back. Almost forcing myself to. I would love to travel to the city for a day and just take pictures. Maybe bring one of my kids along and tour Chicago.
> 
> ...


Hey man
Life lesson make it as you fake it.
For your specific situation look up MGTOW.
Date all you want but focus on you and your needs.
Peace


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

TrustlostHearbroken said:


> I would love to travel to the city for a day and just take pictures. Maybe bring one of my kids along and tour Chicago.


Why don't you?

Maybe that will help you feel more 'equal.'


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Go bk and reread my post 59


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Some play the long game, some are not able too. She was !!


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

There's a poster with a post script on his posts that says " when someone shows you who they are,,,,,, believe them ."


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

My point !! WHEN,, they SHOW, and you can CONFIRM,, THEN, take a chance on them.

Extreme, maybe, but when ONLY the WINGS of one of Gods angels are the reason you are alive, you tend to believe.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Oh, and that's more than one a occasion.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"There's a poster with a post script on his posts that says " when someone shows you who they are,,,,,, believe them ." 

100% True.

And this is why it is vital for the BS to 'flip the script' immediately after D-Day IMO.

What I mean is they have to show immediate and severe consequences to the WS...exposing, filing for D, etc.

They need to demonstrate to the WS beyond any doubts that they are NOT a doormat and are not going to tolerate one more second of their traitorous bullsh*t.

A BS needs to show the WS who THEY really are....namely someone the WS was VERY stupid and foolish to betray because the consequences begin raining down on their heads severely and immediately.

IMO, BS's do as much damage to themselves through begging, chasing, and trying to 'nice' the WS back as the A itself inflicted on them.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Gus, been trying to PM U !!


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## TrustlostHearbroken (Jun 22, 2015)

turnera said:


> Why don't you?
> 
> Maybe that will help you feel more 'equal.'


Yeah, I should stop thinking about it and just do it. Spoke to some co-workers and they suggested going to one of the many parks around the area. Camping, picnics, hiking, and bird watching. Perfect place to bring the camera and take some family pictures. Of course the kids will go nuts without their electronics, but it would be a good experience for them. 

As far dating or future relationships. That's really not a priority. Plus, my kids give me plenty of company. I'm not sure if I'm ready to divide my attention even more, especially having 4 with me right now. 

I have to work on myself and fix whatever went wrong anyways. "Nice guy", "Knight in shining armor syndrome" After researching and reading the book NMMNG. That's me in a nutshell. If there is a future relationship ahead of me. I want to be the best I can be and learn from the mistakes that happened with the WW. 

I've moving on, but being angry at her actions sometimes can't be helped. I know I can never make sense of what she is thinking. I am slowly getting to the point where being angry at her only lasts for short periods. I just turn on some positive music and think about other things. Trying to get to where I don't care anymore. Like others said, eventually it will happen. I just have to be patient. 

I stopped drinking. Last beer I had was like 5 days ago. Gonna make sure I only drink on occasions where I don't have the kids with me. Plus I need to get healthier for myself and the kids. Tonight will be my first workout in years. Hello sore muscles. lol


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Dude, the single most important thing you can do for your kids is spend time with them. They don't know from leftover cardboard boxes or Gucci building blocks. They don't care. They just want grownups who want to BE with them. Camping, hiking, fishing, biking, birdwatching...those are the best things you can do for your kids (and you).


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

OldWolf57 said:


> Gus, been trying to PM U !!


Huh? My inbox isn't full or anything...


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