# Failure to communicate



## Stones (Dec 24, 2017)

I have a lot of problems in my relationship, but first and foremost is communication. She agrees that we need to work on that but whenever the discussions turn serious she gets defensive and it turns into an argument. We have had counselors each and together. We've been married 28 years but the last 8 to 10 have been hardest.

I can really only speak from my perspective... but her traits are Inability to take criticism of any kind, simple suggestions for requested feedback on say something she wrote will be met with fast flashes of anger and yelling. Suggestions to make tasks easier around the house or doing some task in a different way will get a response of, "Don't tell me what to do". My point is that the angry responses seem unjustified and irrational at times. Sometimes she will apologize but that is rare. She will also demand an apology when she thinks she has been wronged in some way. Its important to note that she will do this with us, her immediate family but not with strangers or just friends... so she knows on some level its not acceptable behavior.

This is something that has been happening a while and one time our adult kids were here and my son tried to intervene to tell his mom that she was being irrational. I warned him to stay out of it but he pressed on trying to point out to her that she was being unreasonable. Then she turned on him and began attacking him and pointing things out that she was upset with him over, totally changing the subject. Anyway, I had to stop them from arguing and told my wife to stop attacking him. She now stated that she felt like we were both attacking her. There are 2 other people here but her focus was on me and my son. Eventually she turned her attention back to me and was demanding an apology from me and I told her that I did not think that I had done anything wrong so I could not apologize but what she wants is for me to apologize for making her angry. I know this because that is what I had to do in the past, apologize for doing or saying something that made her angry. When she could not get an apology from me she turned back to my son, he did apologize but also asked that she apologize to him. She then started yelling that she had apologized to him already, then that was another argument in itself that went back and forth and had her saying that she had apologized several times now. But the thing is that she had not... I pay attention now more than I had in the past when I would get lost in the arguments. Anyway she ended up coming back to me and tried to get me to agree with her, that she had already apologized. I looked at her and made sure that she was looking at me and told her calmly and slowly that she had said she had apologized, many times, but she had not actually done it. She started to argue but I stopped her and said, that if she had already done it once to just do it again, calmly, what is the big deal about proving it had happened instead of just doing it. She seemed frustrated and started to say she was sorry. She said, "I'm sorry BUT you..." I stopped her again and said that an apology with an excuse is not an apology. And it went on a bit more...

My point in all of this is that in all of this arguing, that ended in tears and hugging, she had struggled with taking responsibility, being rational, and being able to offer a a real apology. I later had to reassure my son that he had not done anything wrong and that I appreciated that he was trying to help but that there was no point when she gets angry. Which like I said is easy to do. This is only one example and this happens frequently.

I don't know what to do, she is not always like this but anytime she gets offended it heads in this direction. Walking on eggshells is not a good way to cultivate a marriage. It requires compromise which we lack due to our inability to discuss and reason, a big part of communication. I never know when something is going to be taken as a criticism, even when I ask what I did that she thought was criticism.

Recently I was successful in convincing her that maybe we needed to go back to counseling. She agree'd but from past experience she does not talk to the councilor about our problems, I know this because in our first couples counseling, after lots of individual counseling, I had tried to explain our problems to the couples counselor and this caused her to get angry in our counseling session to the point where she stomped out. She did come back but after the session had ended and she had calmed down I asked what made her so upset. She said that she does not like to talk about our personal stuff with people. I asked her how we were supposed to work them out if we don't talk with them and I asked what she had been talking to her personal councilor about... she explained that she talked about her anger mostly and the things I do to make her angry.

Try and understand that it's not always been this way and I have tried very hard to figure it out. It could be that our kids are moved out, she is on medication for pain from an accident years ago, or that we've simply grown apart. But we are still together and trying to work on it. It just seems that we continue to get further apart...


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Your marriage problems are not about failure to communicate. Your wife is defensive and unable to handle anyone having opinions about her being less than perfect. She seems unable to process anything negative about herself. That is an impossible way to live. You said you feel like you are walking on eggshells. There is a book with a title about that. "Stop Walking on Eggshells," Amazon.com: Stop Walking on Eggshells, Third Edition: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder (Audible Audio Edition): Paul T. Mason MS, Randi Kreger, Kirsten Potter, Tantor Audio: Audible Books & Originals
I don't know what is causing your wife to behave this way, but the book might give you some insight into how to cope.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I have some suggestions, based on what you said:

- never ask anyone for an apology. If someone feels moved to apologise, that's up to them, but never ask for it.

- never offer criticism, or "suggestions to make tasks easier around the house". Just don't. Don't even disagree with her about anything if at all possible.

- never call anyone "irrational"

- if in marriage counselling, don't offer your own _analysis_ of problems, just describe what you remember happening and how you felt. Talk about yourself, not her.

Your life might change.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

@Laurentium makes some good points about ways to communicate better with your wife. Judgmental communication is likely to put an already defensive person more on the defensive. For example, let her do her tasks however she wants without comment. Be thankful for everything she does to contribute and often tell her what you appreciate about her.
Calling someone irrational will never work. If she is irrational, telling her that isn't going to make her rational. It will only make her more upset.

Asking her to apologize is pointless. All it does is cause further contention.

I wouldn't bother with marriage counseling, because she is unable and/or unwilling to address any problems. Talking about it extremely upsets her and she is unable to participate.

If you start working on building her and your relationship, that may help her to feel safer, because she obviously doesn't feel safe now, not with you, not with the kids. I don't have enough information to speculate about why that is. By building, I mean recognizing and positively commenting on whatever she is doing right; encouraging her in doing what is right. Stay away from discouraging her from anything that she may be doing that you don't like. That clearly upsets her and she goes into fight or flight.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Sometimes people have an irrational fear of judgement, and it sends them into fight or flight mode, which is inherently selfish. It sounds like she has anxiety and is lashing out.

Have you asked her about anxiety? Does she take an SSRI?


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## GG1061 (Apr 20, 2021)

My spouse will habitually fall into the trap of "suggesting" to the household how things should be done and we all take it micro-managing, which she hates when it happens to her at work. My response is if she wants the kids or myself to do something let us do it the way we see fit. This has built up a lot of resentment in my children toward her and they, too, now have developed a defensive posture toward her when it comes to chores because this happens over and over. Maybe your wife feels the same as my children. 

As for your son intervening, I would work to not to discourage him or other family members from approaching your wife but to communicate in a non-threatening way. There are ways to voice things without putting the other person on the defensive. Recommending "Living Successfully With Screwed-Up People" by Elizabeth Brown.


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## Stones (Dec 24, 2017)

Cynthia said:


> Your marriage problems are not about failure to communicate. Your wife is defensive and unable to handle anyone having opinions about her being less than perfect. She seems unable to process anything negative about herself. That is an impossible way to live. You said you feel like you are walking on eggshells. There is a book with a title about that. "Stop Walking on Eggshells," Amazon.com: Stop Walking on Eggshells, Third Edition: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder (Audible Audio Edition): Paul T. Mason MS, Randi Kreger, Kirsten Potter, Tantor Audio: Audible Books & Originals
> I don't know what is causing your wife to behave this way, but the book might give you some insight into how to cope.


Thanks for your reply Cynthia, I appreciate it. I will take a look at that book. Over the years I have done lots of looking to try to better understand. Many of her traits when they are at their worst "I thought' fall into vulnerable narcissistic behavior. I have run into descriptions of borderline personality disorder too but did not think that fit her as well. But I am not a doctor so I can only guess. Living with it has its highs and lows. A lot of the reading I have done has been helpful, but I think that only takes me so far.


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## Stones (Dec 24, 2017)

Laurentium said:


> I have some suggestions, based on what you said:
> 
> - never ask anyone for an apology. If someone feels moved to apologise, that's up to them, but never ask for it.
> 
> ...


Thank you Laurentium!

All of your points are valid and I can say that I still struggle with the criticism. I rarely offer any anymore and if requested I am wary to say anything at all, feels like a trap and has been a few times. It was probably something in my delivery in those cases. Talking about this makes me think of a book I read a book called "Non-violent Communication" at the direction of one of my therapists. I found it wordy and hard to follow... I read it a couple times to better understand it. There was another that was shorter and way more direct that I really liked that was based on that book. I still read that one from time to time for a reminder of how I need to communicate with others and how to interpret communication from others.

I have had a lot of therapy , it look a while to convince my wife to try it. It helped me a lot. I learned to recognize abusive behaviors I had been dealing with and how better to react to them and how to not be drawn into arguments (Still not always successful, I'm human). I also learned a lot about what I was doing that was contributing to the problems we have. I'm not perfect, I'm still learning. Not sure you can achieve perfection anyway.


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## Stones (Dec 24, 2017)

Cynthia said:


> If you start working on building her and your relationship, that may help her to feel safer


Hi Cynthia, 

I agree with this, and I think I have been trying to do this. You could be right and I can try to do more. Thank you!


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## Stones (Dec 24, 2017)

GG1061 said:


> My spouse will habitually fall into the trap of "suggesting" to the household how things should be done and we all take it micro-managing, which she hates when it happens to her at work. My response is if she wants the kids or myself to do something let us do it the way we see fit. This has built up a lot of resentment in my children toward her and they, too, now have developed a defensive posture toward her when it comes to chores because this happens over and over. Maybe your wife feels the same as my children.
> 
> As for your son intervening, I would work to not to discourage him or other family members from approaching your wife but to communicate in a non-threatening way. There are ways to voice things without putting the other person on the defensive. Recommending "Living Successfully With Screwed-Up People" by Elizabeth Brown.


Thanks GG, I will take a look at that book.


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## Stones (Dec 24, 2017)

re16 said:


> Sometimes people have an irrational fear of judgement, and it sends them into fight or flight mode, which is inherently selfish. It sounds like she has anxiety and is lashing out.
> 
> Have you asked her about anxiety? Does she take an SSRI?


Thaks re16,

Yeah, she doesn't shy away from anything that is troubling her and I have had discussions with her about anxiety. She takes medications for an accident she had several years ago to deal with chronic pain (which may contribute to our issues), and at one point she did take medication for anxiety, but I don't think she's still taking those.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Stones said:


> and at one point she did take medication for anxiety, but I don't think she's still taking those.


Maybe that's the problem. My wife was the same. She could not take any criticism. She wouldn't shout or scream or argue with me... she would give me the silent treatment. She has mental issues and I slowly withdrew from the relationship because I was getting nowhere. In hindsight, I realise that I didn't give her the support she needed. She was in trouble, mentally. What about approaching the problem in a supportive way instead of antagonising your wife?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Maybe that's the problem. My wife was the same. She could not take any criticism. She wouldn't shout or scream or argue with me... she would give me the silent treatment. She has mental issues and I slowly withdrew from the relationship because I was getting nowhere. In hindsight, I realise that I didn't give her the support she needed. She was in trouble, mentally. What about approaching the problem in a supportive way instead of antagonising your wife?


There is a line though, between being supportive and enabling toxic behavior.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> There is a line though, between being supportive and enabling toxic behavior.


yes, you are right. I thought she was behaving in a toxic way at the time, hence my stance which led to more duty sex and then being discarded, literally. But knowing what I know now (the gravity of her mental issues) I would have been more supportive. Granted, the outcome might have been the same, but I would love to put the clock back to have a go at it from a different perspective.


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## Stones (Dec 24, 2017)

Livvie said:


> There is a line though, between being supportive and enabling toxic behavior.


Thanks Livvie, 

Yeah, I agree, and there was a lot of toxic behavior that I have had to push back on. The therapy I had gone through helped me with that. There were situations where she was very angry in an argument, leaning over me and telling me what a piece of crap I was, horrible husband, father, etc. I was not retaliating or raising my voice, it seemed to make her angrier that I wasn't. I would usually go for a walk in these situations and let her calm down. She would at times throw and break things and say, "See what you made me do", as if I had control of her emotions. These are very abusive and toxic obviously. There was also the isolation she would try to do with me, sometimes I would allow it but others I would do what I had planned and she just had to deal with that. 

These were the worst of times and I hope behind us. Not to say that we don't have a long ways still to go... right now I feel like we are at a stall and I am not sure what to do, not arguing nearly as much, that could be because I will not participate... but I don't think that we are close either. I think that it takes time but I also think that we may also be growing apart too. We are working on removing negative behaviors and concentrate on positive ones instead which includes being supportive. But you are right that you cannot support undesirable behaviors of they will become the new normal.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Cynthia said:


> Your wife is defensive and unable to handle anyone having opinions about her being less than perfect. She seems unable to process anything negative about herself.


I know this feeling....

You have been poked raw for so long that any feedback is felt the prick. 

Saying you are always on edge is a major understatement.

This may be more a physical response than mental, though, can they ever be separate?

No...

Can we say she is now conditioned to be that neurotic person?
Such this, jittery, self absorbed bundle of ganglion's?

Her response to stimuli may seem to be unnatural, but it is common, and it is not conducive to a good marriage.

We must co-exist with others, else, some measure of conflict and war will be seen, unending.

They prescribe anti-anxiety drugs for this purpose.

While, I personally abhor the thought, some people function better, on them.



_Lilith-_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I see where she was already on AI medications.

Was she more personable when taking these?



_KB-_


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Stones said:


> Thanks Livvie,
> 
> Yeah, I agree, and there was a lot of toxic behavior that I have had to push back on. The therapy I had gone through helped me with that. There were situations where she was very angry in an argument, leaning over me and telling me what a piece of crap I was, horrible husband, father, etc. I was not retaliating or raising my voice, it seemed to make her angrier that I wasn't. I would usually go for a walk in these situations and let her calm down. She would at times throw and break things and say, "See what you made me do", as if I had control of her emotions. These are very abusive and toxic obviously. There was also the isolation she would try to do with me, sometimes I would allow it but others I would do what I had planned and she just had to deal with that.
> 
> These were the worst of times and I hope behind us. Not to say that we don't have a long ways still to go... right now I feel like we are at a stall and I am not sure what to do, not arguing nearly as much, that could be because I will not participate... but I don't think that we are close either. I think that it takes time but I also think that we may also be growing apart too. We are working on removing negative behaviors and concentrate on positive ones instead which includes being supportive. But you are right that you cannot support undesirable behaviors of they will become the new normal.


So has she ever owned up to and apologized for these prior toxic behaviors? Simply moving on from them is a recipe for disaster.

You can only control yourself, and only she can control herself. There is nothing you can do to change her, she has to want to do that, and make the changes on her own. You can foster discussions in which you are trying to get her to make those decisions for herself.

Yes it takes two to argue, but simply not engaging with her doesn't equal a relationship. If that is the way you have to treat her, it is much more like a father / child relationship than a spousal relationship.

If there is a chance that has real anxiety, I think you are going to have a hard time getting anywhere with that without meds.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Stones said:


> She would at times throw and break things and say, "See what you made me do", as if I had control of her emotions.


That does sound a bit (as @Cynthia said) borderline-like. Was that recently, or a long time back?


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## Stones (Dec 24, 2017)

Laurentium said:


> That does sound a bit (as @Cynthia said) borderline-like. Was that recently, or a long time back?


I think that particular example was getting close to a year back now, we were both in therapy at the time and things were probably at their worst. I have a journal and can probably get a fairly exact timeline. I did finish reading, "Stop walking on eggshells" 3rd edition yesterday. I had thought that she had NPD, but she may also have BPD or a mix of both. I don't know that putting a name on it really helps. 

Much of the book was examples and many I have experienced myself. Towards the end it made me depressed, exhausted, or something like that... I started thinking that it is unfair that I have to treat her in a special way to help her get better and not trigger her, she has been so abusive that it's hard for me to accept I guess. Not trying to be selfish just tired. 

Going through therapy taught me that I didn't even know how to set boundaries or what those even were. I had been letting myself be a doormat for so long. Now I take time for me, and care for myself. Now reading that book I see that I have A LOT more work to do if we even have a chance. They mentioned this in the book but I can remember thinking and discussing it before with others, what I mean is that she does not act this way around everyone, mostly around me, some around our daughter, and then also some around our son. I don't remember this being an issue really at all when the kids were still at home, though the signs were probably there and I just ignored them. I am going to have to let them in on what I have learned by reading that book, and let them read it for themselves and then they can draw their own conclusions. My point is that she knows on some level that this behavior is not acceptable, and refrains from it when she needs to.

One final note on this, my wife's father was very quick to anger too, he would get disproportionately angry and raise his voice or yell. My wife told me stories of when she grew up when it would even get violent at times, pulled hair or things like that. So my thought was that is where she learned it or inherited the behavior, genetically or otherwise.


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## Stones (Dec 24, 2017)

re16 said:


> So has she ever owned up to and apologized for these prior toxic behaviors? Simply moving on from them is a recipe for disaster.


I know that now, but I had to learn that over time... and I am still learning. It's hard for me sometimes to even respond to her when she makes wild accusations or says something that isn't true or is a half truth. She likes to play the victim and point out how I have wronged her in some way. It's not that she never apologizes for anything, there are just some things she won't, for no good reason she will stand her ground and accuse, blame, yell, and generally throw a tantrum about. Anything she can do to NOT accept responsibility. Its definitely a trait of BPD. I just don't know how to deal with it yet... Mostly my go to is to retreat, but that is usually when things are bad and we are arguing. I don't try to argue anymore, it only intensifies and nothing is resolved... I find that taking a break is best. I need to learn to use some of the strategies in the book "Stop walking on eggshells" which are similar to some of the ones I have tried to use from "Nonviolent Communication". But its hard.

Besides, from therapy, they have said its not good to dwell on the past, besides that her recollection of some of those instances she has brought up before and in her recollection of them I am the bad guy, I am the one that cause the problems and she will have no memory of her toxic behavior, only that I have wronged her in some way. There is no point in debating it, it only escalates, the best I have been able to do is just say that was not how I remembered it and leave it at that.


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## Stones (Dec 24, 2017)

Cynthia said:


> Your marriage problems are not about failure to communicate. Your wife is defensive and unable to handle anyone having opinions about her being less than perfect. She seems unable to process anything negative about herself. That is an impossible way to live. You said you feel like you are walking on eggshells. There is a book with a title about that. "Stop Walking on Eggshells," Amazon.com: Stop Walking on Eggshells, Third Edition: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder (Audible Audio Edition): Paul T. Mason MS, Randi Kreger, Kirsten Potter, Tantor Audio: Audible Books & Originals
> I don't know what is causing your wife to behave this way, but the book might give you some insight into how to cope.


I finished reading, "Stop walking on eggshells". Many of the examples in that book I have experienced. In the quiz to see if she has BPD or NPD or a little of both I scored her a 13. That't pretty high and more on the NPD than the BPD, but not a lot more. 

She has many triggers, and most of them are typical I think whenever she feels blamed or thinks I am trying to tell her what do do, even if that was not what I was doing. Her interpretations of my words are sometimes wacky, when I ask her what she thought I had said, its not even close. I said one things and she heard something totally different (and yeah that's in the book.)

One is stuff though. We downsized when our kids moved out and we moved into another home. From 3600 to 1200 square feet. Its a big difference and I had promised that we could add on to this house... in the short term we had discussed and decided to make the second bedroom in the house into her closet with the understanding that her cloths needed to fit in there. I did that and after she finished filling it up she announced that the closet was about half the space she needed, its a 10x14 room.

That's when I had realized I had been ignoring a problem and when I saw the size of the problem I put on the brakes. This is a trigger that we both try to avoid now. She has a lot of cloths (1200 shirts, 500 pairs of shoes, etc.) Its a long story but she has had a shopping problem for a long time, something that I think she did to deal with self esteem issues. We both make good money, so that was never a problem, the problem is that she does not let go of things so we have too much stuff. And it does not stop at cloths, its kitchenware, furniture, makeup, toiletries, linens, etc... even groceries (I throw out a lot of spoiled food). Too much and continues to bring more home. One time she went shopping and when she came home told me not to talk to her as she skipped and sang to herself through the house, she was on a high and didn't want me to ruin it and told me so, not in those words but something like, "I am in a good mood, I went shopping, I don't want to hear it so don't talk to me". The reason is probably because I would point out that she does not need more shoes, jackets, purses, etc... Anyway I have lots of stories about that, but the shopping issue started about 20 years ago. I think I ignored it because I didn't think it was a big deal but now I can see its a huge deal, and its still growing.

Anyway, I think that is the elephant in the room, but we don't talk about it because we are still trying to deal with small things. And her collections are an instant trigger for her. I refuse to add on to the house until she downsizes some. And she won't so were stuck. I mean, she lies to me and tells me that she has taken several garbage bags full of things to the goodwill, but she hasn't of course. And because of the BPD she will deny and blame me or start some other argument to change the subject and just get me to leave it alone.


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## Stones (Dec 24, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> I see where she was already on AI medications.
> 
> Was she more personable when taking these?
> 
> ...


I could tell when she was not on them, but I think to her its an admission that she has a problem, and does not want to admit that. I can say that she was easier to get along with when she did take them. But that was years ago now and of course I didn't now then what I know now.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Stones said:


> I think that particular example was getting close to a year back now, we were both in therapy at the time and things were probably at their worst. I have a journal and can probably get a fairly exact timeline. I did finish reading, "Stop walking on eggshells" 3rd edition yesterday. I had thought that she had NPD, but she may also have BPD or a mix of both. I don't know that putting a name on it really helps.


I agree that it doesn't really matter what you call it. I wasn't meaning to say that I think your wife has BPD, just that you used the phrase "walking on eggshells" and it reminded me of this book. If you feel like you are walking on eggshells, I thought the book might provide some insight and help in how to deal with the situation more productively.



Stones said:


> Much of the book was examples and many I have experienced myself. Towards the end it made me depressed, exhausted, or something like that... I started thinking that it is unfair that I have to treat her in a special way to help her get better and not trigger her, she has been so abusive that it's hard for me to accept I guess. Not trying to be selfish just tired.


It's understandable that you would feel overwhelmed and sad about the situation with your wife. She is difficult to live with.

Have you read Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself, by Melody Beattie and Facing Codependence, by Pia Mellody? I think you may be helped by these books as well. They teach you what you are and are not responsible for, so you can live your life without constantly worrying about what others are or are not doing. I recommend reading them in the order listed. Melody Beattie outlines the problem. Pia Mellody shows what a healthy family and a healthy relationship look like. These may help you balance out what you read in Walking on Eggshells, which seems to have stressed you out.

I know it's hard, but if you are going to stay with her, you've got to learn how to be as healthy as possible and not constantly feel like you are walking on eggshells. Some of the techniques described are very difficult to implement, but once you get the hang of it, they become more natural and habitual. Anything new, that is so huge, is going to be difficult as you learn it and the relationship adjusts.


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## TurnedTurtle (May 15, 2019)

Cynthia said:


> Have you read Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself, by Melody Beattie and Facing Codependence, by Pia Mellody? I think you may be helped by these books as well. They teach you what you are and are not responsible for, so you can live your life without constantly worrying about what others are or are not doing.


@Stones you might also read Melody Beattie's "Beyond Codependence"-- I found it more directly useful in helping me actually address the issue than "Codependent No More," which, as @Cynthia notes, outlines the problem (and would be a good pre-requisite read in any case).


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## Stones (Dec 24, 2017)

GG1061 said:


> My spouse will habitually fall into the trap of "suggesting" to the household how things should be done and we all take it micro-managing, which she hates when it happens to her at work. My response is if she wants the kids or myself to do something let us do it the way we see fit. This has built up a lot of resentment in my children toward her and they, too, now have developed a defensive posture toward her when it comes to chores because this happens over and over. Maybe your wife feels the same as my children.
> 
> As for your son intervening, I would work to not to discourage him or other family members from approaching your wife but to communicate in a non-threatening way. There are ways to voice things without putting the other person on the defensive. Recommending "Living Successfully With Screwed-Up People" by Elizabeth Brown.


Thank you so much for recommending that book "Living Successfully With Screwed-Up People", after getting only part way through the book I felt lighter and more clear headed. And after finishing it, it has made so many things clearer to me, all of the things I was doing wrong... though I still have a lot to figure out and a lot of hard decisions ahead no matter what direction I decide to go, it was a great help, thank you!


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Stones said:


> She has many triggers, and most of them are typical I think whenever she feels blamed or thinks I am trying to tell her what do do, even if that was not what I was doing. Her interpretations of my words are sometimes wacky, when I ask her what she thought I had said, its not even close


My wife had many of the same behaviors that you are describing. Maybe not quite the level of anger as your wife but otherwise much the same.

Bottom line in our situation was that my wife had trust issues. Her childhood and 1st marriage were abusive so she was super-defensive and blameshifting about every comment or suggestion I would make. Many fights went unresolved. I never had given any reason for the lack of trust, it was just there by default. We were married for 18 years before I dealt with this. It’s a long story, don’t ask why the wait.

Ultimately, I was able to show her (in the most gentle way possible) using her own words, how her stance was damaging to our relationship. I pointed out the self-centered way that everything was my fault (no, not using those words!). I also was able to show her how we are on the same team. It’s us against the world. And that I had never suggested anything harmful to her or us.

I can’t over-emphasize gentleness and non-threatening or accusatory language to reinforce a safe discussion. In my case, since trust in me was the issue, everything I said was potentially an attack.

one example of a conversation:
(very calml) W, your comment hurt me in such and such a way and I’d like to talk about that.
BR I didn’t yada,yada defensive blameshifting.
W, let’s reverse this for a second. If you had just now told me that I was hurting you by some comment, I would stop everything and my new number one priority would be to help understand and fix whatever I had done. Wouldn’t I? You know if that’s true or not. You are my number one priority. But it seems like I am not yours. Instead it seems like you are getting upset with me for being hurt.
(tears of realization followed)


This process took weeks with many baby steps, even smaller than the convo above. In the end, she realized how I am not the enemy and it was ok to trust that I wouldn’t hurt her. Still today I’m very very careful when offering my thoughts around anything that might be considered critical of her. I‘m not walking on eggshells per-se, I consider it as being careful with her emotions and it’s a small price to pay for the improvements we’ve had.

And she now has trust in me that I’m never attacking her, I’m trying to make us better & stronger. We’re on the same team.

Thats my story, I hope you get something useful out of there. Its a really tough spot you’re in and I wish the best for you.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> My wife had many of the same behaviors that you are describing. Maybe not quite the level of anger as your wife but otherwise much the same.
> 
> Bottom line in our situation was that my wife had trust issues. Her childhood and 1st marriage were abusive so she was super-defensive and blameshifting about every comment or suggestion I would make. Many fights went unresolved. I never had given any reason for the lack of trust, it was just there by default. We were married for 18 years before I dealt with this. It’s a long story, don’t ask why the wait.
> 
> ...


There's a lot to be said for this approach. Basically, you reassured her of your love for her and your desire to build the relationship, then you asked her to consider your love for her. That's a loving approach that draws the spouse close rather than pushing away. 

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