# Confrontation and MC



## theexpendable (May 9, 2013)

So basically in another thread my wife had an EA that went on for some time maybe over a year (still working on getting answers). I really almost want to confront this other guy. He doesn't live in my town but he does have a FB page that I can message.

On a side note, what kind of advice can you all offer on MC. Thinking about going but is there anything I should look for or watch out for? Thanks guys and gals.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Yes, yes and yes... 

MC-- find one that likes the philosophy of Shirley Glass ( Not Just Friends Author)--- you don't want anyone to minimize that it was just emotional and not sexual...blah blah blah..... 

Research their websites to get an idea of their philosophy and maybe read some reviews.... etc. 

Here's what I liked about mine. My husband had a online EA...when we first walked in and sat down she did the following.

"So husband, what happened that brought you and wife in here? " 
She put it on him to go first, own the problem and really face the behavior....she let it burn really. 

It wasn't a beat up the husband though...it was ok, how did we get here and where was the disconnect but she also didn't let him pin his choices on me. It's true that both partners can contribute to a marriage that is in a slump but it's the wandering one that opens the front door to let the trouble in. 

You need a MC that can be neutral yet brutally honest with both of you. No sugar coating. Offers real concrete tools for repair to communication, needs, personalities. Focuses on what you do well as a couple and the areas that need work. Someone who is grounded in the real word and understands that marriages is work but rewarding. Has a wide range of material from erotic, to emotional and practical. Takes into account your family of origin but doesn't let that be an excuse for cheating. 

Confronting......there are other posters here who have a battle plan for exposure and they will chime in..but the key is prep work...you can't go full blast guns a blazing or they twist it to look like you are a loose cannon......strategy is key on exposure.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

theexpendable said:


> So I'm 31 and my wife just turned 30. We have been married for almost 5 years and have a 2 and a half year old kid. *We've actually been together for 14 years.* The last year and a half have been the worst year of my life. My wife became drastically reserved and cold towards me. *We haven't had sex/kissed/hugged anything in this year and a half.* Our communication broke down and time and time again she never would tell me what the problem was. I've also been sleeping on the couch this entire time as well.
> 
> *Any time I tried to get her to open up she would just say she knows she has changed but that's what people do.* So to make a long story short she had left her email open and I started looking through it because I knew something was up and wanted answers since she wasn't going to say anything ever. I find some emails basically saying that she had been talking and getting interested in a coworker. I didn't have time to look through them all because she busted me so I didn't get the whole story. I confronted her and she sort of blew it off like it was nothing. I got pissed and left and called her sister because we are really tight and she knows what I've been going through. Come to find out she has known and didn't say a damn word to me but she wouldn't tell me much other than she knew my wife had feelings for this guy. So I get back home and confront her and she says nothing ever happened just they got a little too close and were emailing/txt/phone more than they should have. This infuriated me and I consider this cheating. She still isn't telling me everything so I'm going to try and get her sister to tell me more. I really need some advice cause I really don't know how to handle this and am very out of my mind currently.
> 
> ...


You have to get yourself out of the fog you are in. It sounds like you don't have a firm grip on who's who in your life.

You are not tight with your wife or her sister. They are tight with each other. Your wife and her sister confide in each other. Your sister-in-law's primary loyalty is to your wife, you come in a distant second. First thing you have to do is realize that. When you talk to your sister-in-law, get information from her, but do not give her any. She is not your friend and any information you give her will be used against you.

Next thing you have to do is accept that your marriage may be over. It is possible you can reconcile, but not likely. Just about everyone who posts here wants to reconcile. If you wanted to divorce, it would be easy, just get a lawyer and file.

Finally, you must accept that there is close to a 100% chance she slept with the coworker. Stop kidding yourself. The chances that this was not consummated, given how distant your wife has been and for how long, given all of the opportunity she has had, there really is almost zero percent she's not having sex with him.

Next, I have to ask: What is your wife's gripe about you? Is it limited to that "she's changed" and tells you that you have done nothing wrong? What are her complaints about you? If she has no complaints with you, why would you let this situation go on for as long as you have?

Your wife did you wrong. Please don't go begging after her to work on your marriage. Not only will that not help you to save your marriage, it actually will hurt. Your wife has already lost a lot of respect for you to treat you the way she is. Nobody wants to be married to a person who doesn't respect themselves. You let your wife treat you badly for a year and a half with hardly an explanation, with YOU sleeping on the couch. And she doesn't feel bad about it. You are worth more than that. You deserve better than that. You have to find your righteous indignation at being treated so poorly by the one who took vows with you and committed her life to you. You have to find your self-esteem and your self-respect. YOU HAVE TO STOP LETTING HER TREAT YOU POORLY.

Take on this attitude, and tell your wife: "I love you. I want to see if we can save our marriage. You have treated me horribly and have lied to me. You have refused me sex and affection. You have let me sleep on the couch for a year and a half. That ends this minute. I am sleeping in the bed. If you want to sleep on the couch, feel free. Despite my love for you, I am not willing to continue in our marriage one day longer the way things are. Given how badly you've treated me, here are my conditions for even considering trying to work on our marriage:

1. Tell me the truth about your affair.

2. Cease all contact with other man.

3. Send other man a no contact letter.

4. Start looking for another job.

5. Give me all passwords to all devices and accounts.

6. Delete nothing.

7. Change phone numbers, delete email address and get a new one, get rid of Facebook while we work on the marriage.

This is what else you do:

1. Buy three voice-activated recorders and some heavy-duty velcro; keep one on you at all times, even before you talk to your wife with your conditions to reconcile - you have to protect yourself against possible false accusations; put another VAR in her car under her seat, and put the third VAR in the house in a spot where she likely is to talk on the phone when you are not around. You will either catch her talking to other man or confiding to her sister and you will get the truth.

2. Go see a lawyer and see how to best protect yourself financially and custody-wise if you divorce.

3. Find out other man's contact info and expose to his wife/girlfriend. Do not tell your wife you are doing this, just do it. There is a reason your wife has not left you for other man. My guess is that HE doesn't want her (except for sex), otherwise she would have left you already.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

daggeredheart said:


> Yes, yes and yes...
> 
> *MC-- find one that likes the philosophy of Shirley Glass ( Not Just Friends Author)---* you don't want anyone to minimize that it was just emotional and not sexual...blah blah blah.....
> 
> ...


Please take this advice about the MC. There are a lot of bad ones when it comes to infidelity. MC likely will be a waste of time if your wife still is continuing the affair. The MC will assume that you BOTH want to try to save the marriage. Continuing the affair is the OPPOSITE of trying to save the marriage.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

What would be the purpose of confronting this other guy? He made no vows to you and owes you no loyalty. Your business is with your spouse. If she weren't talking to this guy, it'd just be some other. I can't cut, beat, warn, or threaten every man on the planet, so my time is better maintaining my relationship with my wife so I don't have to. If I can't trust her, I need to ditch her.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> Your wife did you wrong. *Please don't go begging after her to work on your marriage.* Not only will that not help you to save your marriage, it actually will hurt. Your wife has already lost a lot of respect for you to treat you the way she is. Nobody wants to be married to a person who doesn't respect themselves. You let your wife treat you badly for a year and a half with hardly an explanation, with YOU sleeping on the couch. And she doesn't feel bad about it. You are worth more than that. You deserve better than that. You have to find your righteous indignation at being treated so poorly by the one who took vows with you and committed her life to you. *You have to find your self-esteem and your self-respect. YOU HAVE TO STOP LETTING HER TREAT YOU POORLY.*



*^^^^THIS^^^^*


Further, no MC will help until the OM has been eliminated, and your W has committed 100% to R. You'll be wasting your time and money.

However, I strongly recommend IC. I found it immensely helpful. The catharsis of just talking to someone else about your situation can be unbelievably calming to your psyche.

.


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## theexpendable (May 9, 2013)

Okay guys just had the 2nd talk and had her break it down for me. She grew away from me after we had our kid. Says I wasn't helping out as much as she would have liked. I'll give her that. It wasn't 50x50 by any means but it took me a few months to get the hang of being a father. That was an incredibly tough adjustment for me but it's not like I was sleeping through feedings and making her do all the work. I was there awake at 2am getting bottles warmed up and changing diapers. She would nag at me for these things but she never made it clear that it was that serious to end the marriage.

As far as the EA she says it actually started around August of last year and went on till just a few months ago. I know they had contact in Feb but she doesn't recall when it stopped. She claims it was never physical just txts/emails/phone calls. Apparently he was in a bad marriage and they would confide in each other with their problems. I asked her if she ever loved him and she says no. Said it was just an emotional connection. I asked if they ever met up anywhere and she says no. It was never face to face. She says it ended by them just stopped talking. Later on she says she told me him she wants to work on her marriage so I'm not sure how to take that one. That's when I actually threatened to call this MF out and she got very defensive because he's still married and could ruin his career or something. I'm not proud of this but I'm a very revengeful person kinda of tooth for a tooth mindset. If you disrespect me and try and tear down my family and I lose the privilege of getting to see my beautiful son every day that really fires me up. She is gung ho for fixing the marriage now and going to see a MC but I haven't tipped my cards yet as to what I'm going to do. I really like the idea of making her send an end of contact msg or me doing it myself. Advice/ideas are appreciated. Thanks everyone during this difficult time.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

And by being "gung ho" you mean she is now being intimate with you again after such a long drought? Did she explain WHY the drought?

Oh, you should expose to the OM's wife asap. Don't contact him at all. It'll just put him on notice to be proactive with his wife and paint you as a wacko.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

call the phucker out!

your old lady needs to face some consequences?

command respect brother!

the chick that is advising you is the same chick that screwed around on you!

show her you are a man to be respected and expose this crap...cuz if you don't it *will* go deeper underground and this POs gets away with phucking up your family...


bad behavior continues with out consequences!


Your old lady can either respect you for your *own choices to protect the marriage or she can go be the "other women" ...so stop sharing your wife and be confident enough to know that you WILL NOT TOLOARET THIS SH1T AND SHE NOW MUST PAY OR GET OUT.....

WTF..your old lady screws around on you and now you listen to her and her advice......Dude you want her to walk....or at the very least except the consequences or this sh1t will continue with some other POS!!!!!!!!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Or wait your to scared to stir the sh1t pot cuz you don;t want your cheat wife to leave you!!!!WTF man up dude.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

She's busy having an A and she 'busted' you when you read the incriminating e-mails?

You really need a serious attitude change in order to handle this. She's in the wrong, not you. It doesn't matter how many diapers you changed or didn't change, she had an A. These actions are in completely different leagues.

Definitely expose the OM to his W. He's a POS & his W deserves to know what her beloved H has been doing behind her back. She deserves that. Your W gets no say in that. Don't tell her that you are doing it. Just do it.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sorry for shouting and being an @ss hole..

I get tired of guys like me getting screwed over and managed!

I'm tired of being a doormate, I'm done asking for respect!

Its time we all command respect!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The lies and the deciet have to end!

We can stop controling our wayward spouse.

Its time we take control of we tolorate and wish our waywards the best...no longer *protecting* our marriage and families...it time to work on us.

Cuz at the end of the day it is us that our kids look up to, it is us that command respect from others around us, and it is us that control what we can control.

No matter how painful, I will not let my old lady define me!!!!!!!!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sorry for the rant, your thread hit close to home.

If I threadjacked, then I'm sorry!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

tell that POSOM wife whats what!

Your old lady is still protecting her boyfriend, and that bad...very very bad. 

Dude until Om is completely out of the picture your screwed, exposing is the only way to get that phucker gone!!!!!


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## theexpendable (May 9, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> And by being "gung ho" you mean she is now being intimate with you again after such a long drought? Did she explain WHY the drought?


Not intimate yet but hell I just found out Thursday night. We just had that 2nd convo a few hours ago where I was hoping to get more details. I assume the drought was because of us growing apart when she didn't think I was helping as much as I should combined with the fact that she was talking to this dude and having feelings for him.


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## theexpendable (May 9, 2013)

the guy said:


> Sorry for shouting and being an @ss hole..
> 
> I get tired of guys like me getting screwed over and managed!
> 
> ...


Don't worry about it bro I completely understand. Us nice guys get effed in the ass and lose our families every day.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Cheaters are liars. When it comes to the affair, you can't believe anything she says. I would not just take her word that it ended and that she didn't have sex with him. As a matter of fact, based on her behavior I can just about guarantee you that they had sex. I also wouldn't believe that it is over.

*How old were the messages you found Thursday?

Did you say that they were coworkers? Are they still?*

My take is that they had an affair, it was physical, she may still be pining for him, if she still is working with him it is not over. If they no longer work together, MAYBE this thing ended. If they still are working together, the affair probably still is going on in some form, even if it's just her pining for him. My take is that he wouldn't leave his wife for yours, otherwise she would have left your for him already. My guess is that she was having sex with other man, being faithful to him, that's why you went to the couch in the first place.

No sex and sleeping on the couch for a year and a half because she had to nag you to warm up the bottles at 2 am, which you did, but only after she nagged? Not buying it. Quite frankly, that excuse sounds absolutely ludicrous.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you are too close to the situation to see it for what it is. It is easy from my viewpoint to see that she is still hiding stuff and not telling you the truth.

If the affair ended, she knows EXACTLY when, down to the hour and minute.

Please take note of the following - this is the key to all of your actions going forward: She does not respect you when you allow her to walk all over you. Only when you stand up for yourself will you get any respect.

Please go back to the same MC who saw you the first time. That one has somewhat of a grip and has shown an ability to call your wife out for her behavior and ridiculous excuses, even when you are buying them.

Your wife does not deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point. Do not accept what she says as the truth. You don't have to call her a liar, but you can be inwardly skeptical. Don't hesitate to call her out on things that don't make sense.

Ask her how often she texted/messaged this guy. Then try to independently verify via the phone bill or looking at social media accounts. Tell her that you are having a hard time believing that they never had ANY physical contact. Then ask her if he ever touched her hand or her shoulder. Then if he ever tried to kiss her or take it further. And what she did in reaction. If you do this, you may start to get the trickle truth of what really went on between them. For sure you don't have that story now. Tell her that you want her to sit quietly and not say anything while you call her sister and tell her sister, your sister told me everything already, she already told me they were in love and had sex, so you can stop lying about it now.

*Please also fill us in on how you came to be sleeping on the couch in the first place*. Did she kick you out? Did she tell you that sex was NOT going to happen and you went on your own?

Let other man and his wife go for the time being while you see what your wife has to say.

If you want the truth, the voice-activated recorder will be your best investment. Your wife WILL spill to her sister and you will find the TRUTH, good or bad. Get the VARs in place and then start stirring the pot with you want to talk to her sister to see if the stories match up. The truth will come out, but not if you just sit back and accept the nonsensical story you are being told now, that she had an emotional affair with a coworker for months and nothing physical ever happened. Emotional affairs with coworkers who have proximity to each other go physical very quickly.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

theexpendable said:


> Not intimate yet but hell I just found out Thursday night. We just had that 2nd convo a few hours ago where I was hoping to get more details. *I assume the drought was because of us growing apart when she didn't think I was helping as much as I should combined with the fact *that she was talking to this dude and having feelings for him.


the bold ^^^ very possible but also possible (and IMO more likely) is that she was/is being faithful to you know who (not you). 

Sorry, but all the signs are there. The only thing missing is her swearing on her children's lives.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

theexpendable said:


> As far as the EA she says it actually started around August of last year and went on till just a few months ago. *I know they had contact in Feb but she doesn't recall when it stopped.*


In cheater-speak, I don't remember when it stopped means it never stopped OR I just called him last night when you went to the hotel and told him we had to cool it for awhile because you are on to us.

Keep in mind you are only a roommate who she used to love, other man has her primary loyalty. She has to jump through a few hoops now to keep you satisfied so you don't blow it up for the other man. Trust me, she is much more worried about what will happen to other man than she is about having hurt you.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

theexpendable said:


> Not intimate yet but hell I just found out Thursday night. We just had that 2nd convo a few hours ago where I was hoping to get more details. I assume the drought was because of us growing apart when she didn't think I was helping as much as I should combined with the fact that she was talking to this dude and *having feelings for him*.


What does "having feelings for him" mean? I think it means she was romantically interested in him and/or loved him and/or desired him sexually.

Do you ever say you "have feelings" for a close friend who you confide in? No? Neither do I. I say, he or she is a close friend I confide in.

When I am sexually attracted to someone and have an interest in romance with them, I say "I have feelings for them." "I have feelings for him" is the adult equivalent of a fifth-grader who says "I like like him."

If she had "feelings" for him, and he had "feelings" for her, there is just about no way these two cheaters refrained from taking it to the next level.

I'm not trying to be hurtful. You have to face this head on, for what it is, not minimize it or sweep it under the rug. Get it out in the open now and deal with it, or it will haunt your marriage for a long, long time. The healing only begins when you treat the actual injury. The problem is her lying, minimizing, hiding, punishing you, and having an affair, not that you didn't heat up bottles until after she nagged a little.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> What would be the purpose of confronting this other guy? He made no vows to you and owes you no loyalty. Your business is with your spouse. If she weren't talking to this guy, it'd just be some other. * I can't cut, beat, warn, or threaten every man on the planet, so my time is better maintaining my relationship with my wife so I don't have to.* If I can't trust her, I need to ditch her.


Of course, that's only necessary if she fooked every man on the planet. Any man who fooks a married woman has to take his medicine.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

theexpendable said:


> Don't worry about it bro I completely understand. Us nice guys get effed in the ass and lose our families every day.


So quit being a nice guy and alpha up. Your wife has been devaluing you for a long time. She probably sees you as a "Gamma Male" due to her willful distortions of your nature, which her rationalization hamster spins up. Women take their attraction cues from each other and if they don't think other women are attracted to you, they lose their own attraction. when they think some other woman might be on your radar, their attraction goes way up.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Ok, she says you didn't help out enough so she got into an EA

Ask her how the OM helped out be better then you did, especially of they never met.

See how her blame shift on to you doesn't hold up. This to other guy didn't change a single diaper, or do a single feeding , yet he's better for her and more supportive than you?

Sorry but her reason is total BS when you think about it.

As for exposing to the guys wife - if they did no wrong, then obviously he , like your wife, has nothing to hide and nothing to worry about.

Wait, there is on thing your wife is worried about. She's worried if you expose, then the OM will break up with her.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

theexpendable said:


> Okay guys just had the 2nd talk and had her break it down for me. She grew away from me after we had our kid. Says I wasn't helping out as much as she would have liked. I'll give her that. It wasn't 50x50 by any means but it took me a few months to get the hang of being a father. That was an incredibly tough adjustment for me but it's not like I was sleeping through feedings and making her do all the work. I was there awake at 2am getting bottles warmed up and changing diapers. She would nag at me for these things but she never made it clear that it was that serious to end the marriage.
> 
> As far as the EA she says it actually started around August of last year and went on till just a few months ago. I know they had contact in Feb but she doesn't recall when it stopped. She claims it was never physical just txts/emails/phone calls. Apparently he was in a bad marriage and they would confide in each other with their problems. I asked her if she ever loved him and she says no. Said it was just an emotional connection. I asked if they ever met up anywhere and she says no. It was never face to face. She says it ended by them just stopped talking. Later on she says she told me him she wants to work on her marriage so I'm not sure how to take that one. That's when I actually threatened to call this MF out and she got very defensive because he's still married and could ruin his career or something. I'm not proud of this but I'm a very revengeful person kinda of tooth for a tooth mindset. If you disrespect me and try and tear down my family and I lose the privilege of getting to see my beautiful son every day that really fires me up. She is gung ho for fixing the marriage now and going to see a MC but I haven't tipped my cards yet as to what I'm going to do. I really like the idea of making her send an end of contact msg or me doing it myself. Advice/ideas are appreciated. Thanks everyone during this difficult time.



She is protecting this guy. And she is still lying. Call his wife and tell her. See if she can find you some evidence

Install a keylogger on her computer. Can you do that?


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> She is protecting this guy. And she is still lying. Call his wife and tell her. See if she can find you some evidence
> 
> Install a keylogger on her computer. Can you do that?


:iagree:

And, not remembering when it was called off usually means that it wasn't called off at all. And, claiming that you not helping with the baby without being nagged is the reason she strayed is ludicrous; maybe you didn't read her mind, but after she told you what she wanted from you (which is what grown-ups do, use their words and all that), you complied and helped her. I agree with the poster above who said that she is being loyal to this guy.

She's protecting him. She doesn't care that she has hurt you. She's more worried about consequences in his life than really making it up to you. This is probably just an affair gone underground or else she is just not being honest about something.

If you don't take a firm and realistic stand now, you'll lose your wife's respect. Out the OM and let his life fall to pieces if it does because he brought it upon himself. Do NOT warn your wife before you do it. Don't be tentative but be direct. And tell your wife straight up that she has to be fully transparent, agree to MC, and prove that she has cut this OM out of her life by sending an NC letter and NOT doing a dratted thing when his life is falling to pieces (she's gotta stop protecting him cold turkey). And let her know that if she lies to you again, you're out the door. If she sees no consequences, you will be here again with this same OM or another in no time. 

Sorry for what you're going through, man. Hang in there. Trust the guys that have posted on your thread because they've seen this happen more than you might imagine. Read about the cheater's script. 

If you don't have a VAR and keylogger installed, get one right now before she has a chance to hide this nonsense from you some more. You've gotta protect your family and that includes your kid and your wayward wife who is behaving childishly by stepping out on you.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Moxy, do you think this shows the signs of PA?


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Moxy, do you think this shows the signs of PA?


It has been my experience that, as a rule, cheaters confess to only a fraction of what they have actually done with their affair partners -- especially when they are still in the affair fog and denying the truth. Even when they are remorseful, there is a strong self-protection instinct to hide and cover up anything that will really and truly ruin them. Unless the cheater is a pro at it or a sociopath, evidence will usually emerge if the betrayed spouse looks carefully and discreetly.

Based on the following excerpt, a strong emotional connection to an AP is really obvious: 

_So I'm 31 and my wife just turned 30. We have been married for almost 5 years and have a 2 and a half year old kid. We've actually been together for 14 years. The last year and a half have been the worst year of my life. My wife became drastically reserved and cold towards me. We haven't had sex/kissed/hugged anything in this year and a half. Our communication broke down and time and time again she never would tell me what the problem was. I've also been sleeping on the couch this entire time as well. Any time I tried to get her to open up she would just say she knows she has changed but that's what people do._

Additionally, there is something particularly suspicious in the sudden change of her behavior. The OP doesn't suggest what event may have precipitated the change; either he doesn't know, or it was an off-screen event (ie, something between WW and OM that BH may not have any idea of). It could very well have been physical consummation of a long-term EA, a hormonal change if she had just stopped breast-feeding, or a sudden turn in loyalty and fidelity to the OM and a subsequent revulsion of the BH based on the expression of intense feelings of passion or commitment. Whatever it was, it was significant enough to disrupt the normal flow of the relationship, so it ought to be investigated. This nauseating fidelity to the OM is further evidenced by her refusal to discuss the problem and her unwillingness to deal with a communication breakdown over such a long period of time.

A year and a half is a ridiculous amount of time to go without sex. She may just be getting herself off to fantasies, or getting herself off in a cyber-affair with out of town OM, or, perhaps she is actually engaged in a PA with OM, if the town he is in isn't too far away. If she is weaning the child off of breast milk or has recently resumed her not yet normal cycles, she might be hormonally imbalanced, but that would imply a cyclical, rather than constant state of emotional retreat, I think. However, this sex drought seems really outrageous for a 30 year old woman, if all other factors like past abuse or big resentment toward BH or health seem absent, especially because this behavior persists alongside communication breakdown and a known EA and an admission of fatalistic guilt in one's defectiveness (aww, shucks, husband who has been around forever, it looks like I've changed; must be disappointing for you, but that's the way the cookie crumbles, buddy; meanwhile, oh, smoochie smoochie, secret lover boy, i avoided getting caught today aren't i the most delightful twit who wants to do terrible things to you!)

Why the BH is sleeping on the couch is unclear; this is indicative of a problem. Why has the BH accepted sleeping on the couch instead of in the bed? Does the baby sleep in the bed with the parents? Is the bed too small for baby and parents together? No kissing and no sex in a year and a half is bad enough, but, no night-time snuggling is also troubling. I wonder if WW is affectionate with the baby and doing the "new mom ignores old husband" routine; if she really resents the BH's lack of telepathy regarding childcare, then the manner in which she treats the child might be telling. Whether the WW is depressed is also another question. None of these questions explain what caused BH to take up residence on the couch.

I wouldn't say that a PA is certain based on that passage, but I would definitely say that there is infidelity of the emotional variety that is substantial enough to disrupt the marriage and in need of shutting down immediately. The OP has provided sparse details about the dynamic, allowing much reading into by suspicious betrayed spouses, like yours truly, of course. I'm a writer and not a psychologist, so my opinion isn't, by any means, expertise.

Looking further ahead, the blameshift about the baby in which the WW is harboring resentment that the BH only helps out after being nagged rather than in response to the mind-reading skills she expects him to possess (after all, cyberspace lover boy is definitely helping out in that department, right? *rolling eyes at the double standard that dwells in the affair fog). That blameshift is no bueno. And I really do not buy the line about the affair just stopping by itself when it had gone on for so long. It is more likely that it has gone underground or just paused to allow spousal suspicion to fade, especially because she is actually still protecting OM from the problems of being exposed as a cheater. Of course, the vengeful fight-prone behavior is not serving the BH at all in his quest for truth or reconciliation and it will only obscure the info he is able to make sense of because WW is now on alert. If there is no PA ongoing or if the affair is just underground, wanting to protect POSOM from the potential wrath of BH (as he has expressed wanting to go after him), might create the impetus to move over to a PA (hot stuff all that dangerous danger!).

It would make the most sense for BH to go to MC with WW while also planting a VAR and keylogger in the right places so that he can verify if she is lying or really trying to fix the marriage. This would be the ideal way to determine both the WW's commitment and the extent of her cheating. If her sister knows about the OM, then things are at least emotionally hot and heavy; I'm not sure if she'd confess a PA to the sister unless she was seeking help covering it up and if she is, then conversations could provide answers if captured on a VAR. There is a lot of uncertainty about her actions at this point and it is entirely possible that she simply feels estranged from BH and depressed post-baby and has latched on to OM to get some insight; given WW's lack of communicative effort and the also available support structure of SIL, I doubt that it's anything so benign, but it's possible. If she has agreed to MC, then it seems like it would be worth a shot to attend and really make an effort. 

I think that exposing big time would probably also be a good idea if BH wants to try to kill the affair while there's a chance to really stop it. If this is simply an EA, the embarrassment of exposing might be just the thing to snap WW out of it, but her reaction to exposure might give clues about the possibility of a PA either in the past or ongoing. Being gung ho about MC does seem like a drastic change to the cold war zone that the house has been for some time, though, which is also strange. I wonder if BH has missed subtle cues or passive aggressive hints indicating what WW's issue with BH is, aside from there being an OM, of course.

If the OM works with the WW and they see each other at work or if they have physical access to each other during unaccounted-for time, then it seems that the PA is pretty likely on the basis of the emotional and sexual estrangement alone. BH has not mentioned if WW is dressing any differently -- perfume, hairstyles, make-up, wardrobe style, shoes, lingerie, manicures or pedicures -- or, if there's excessive showering after excursions out of the house, or if the phone usage indicates gaps in time bracketed by a lot of messages, which could indicate pre and post rendezvous activity and provide clues about where to seek possible PA info. BH also hasn't mentioned anything about previous jealousy by WW or previous suspicion of straying by BH. The most boring possibility (but maybe the easiest to remedy) is that things have become dull after many years together and WW has been expecting BH to spark some romance, which he hasn't, and in her disappointment has sought what seemed like harmless cyber flirtation to fill the void which has now become a smoldering EA.


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## theexpendable (May 9, 2013)

moxy you make some good points and I'll try to provide some more detail. My first thread is in general relationship forum because I didn't notice this forum till later.

For the longest time I thought it was a medical/hormonal condition. She never has had a high sex drive usually like 3 times a month. So I wrote it off to that since we had just had our son. I mentioned for her to see dr's and so has her mom and sister because she would be incredibly mean to them as well not just me. That's why I didn't get tipped off that it could be and EA. Like you I don't believe it just ended by itself. That's why I want to confront this dude and tell him no more contact or it's gonna get ugly. I will be going the route of a voice recorder just for me peace of mind. She has agreed to MC and I'm setting that up this week. She has been super wife since this came out. She has been talking my ear off, cooking, cleaning, everything. really kinda hovering over me all the time. THis is the woman I married. Now I'm feeding into this as we still have a lot of **** to work out and figure out. I do have a keylogger on the pc but she never uses this pc. She stays on her phone for everything and she never lets it leave her side. Things had started to look up before I found out about this EA. When I was looking through the emails the last one I found was back in Feb. So it very well may have stopped as she claims or it may not have. Right now my mind is running what if's all day long and it's driving me crazy because I don't know the extent. I'm hoping the MC can get her to talk about it. BTW, they haven't worked together since last fall as she changed jobs but she says that's when it started is when she took the new job.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

It could also mean that your wife is side tracking the issues hoping you would ignore them once she gives you enough sex and care.

She could be genuine, but this is a common cheater tactic. Once they think their spouse is getting suspicious, they try to blindside him with extra sex and other stuff. So make sure she isn't doing it to cover up the tracks or out of guilt


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Can you not get the phone at night ?


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Wait a second. You should have access to her phone at anytime. If she refuses then this affair hasn't ended. If she erases texts, the affair hasn't ended. Set some ground rules for moving forward. If she won't agree then file.

I would be contacting the OM wife NOW.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP see my message on your other thread.


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

machiavelli said:


> of course, that's only necessary if she fooked every man on the planet. Any man who fooks a married woman has to take his medicine.


μολὼν λαβέ


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

It sounds like you are just relieved and happy when she stops being mean to you. That is no way to go through life.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

theexpendable said:


> For the longest time I thought it was a medical/hormonal condition. She never has had a high sex drive usually like 3 times a month.


Wasn't she always hot to get her hands down your pants when you were dating? If not, she's never been that into you. This is a common problem and it's why female psychologists always oppose new meds to treat FSAD (female arousal disorder). The shrinks know it's usually an attraction problem, not a hormonal problem, at least before 45. Even if she started out being into you, a fair percentage of women lose attraction for a guy between 4-7 years into the relationship and others lose it between 12-14 years, according to multiple studies. There are several overlapping explanations give by "social scientists." The two big ones are her base biological urge to gather more wild oats (not but all her eggs into BH's basket) and the second is no physical attraction to BH, either due to the BH having a crappy physique (no muscle, pudgy belly) and/or no attention from other females (especially if her toxic GFs join her in running down BH).

This is a dating attraction scale, but it absolutely applies to married men (although it should not, rationally speaking) with WWs. She's evaluating you against OM just as surely as if you've just met. What's your score?


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## theexpendable (May 9, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Wasn't she always hot to get her hands down your pants when you were dating? If not, she's never been that into you. This is a common problem and it's why female psychologists always oppose new meds to treat FSAD (female arousal disorder). The shrinks know it's usually an attraction problem, not a hormonal problem, at least before 45. Even if she started out being into you, a fair percentage of women lose attraction for a guy between 4-7 years into the relationship and others lose it between 12-14 years, according to multiple studies. There are several overlapping explanations give by "social scientists." The two big ones are her base biological urge to gather more wild oats (not but all her eggs into BH's basket) and the second is no physical attraction to BH, either due to the BH having a crappy physique (no muscle, pudgy belly) and/or no attention from other females (especially if her toxic GFs join her in running down BH).
> 
> This is a dating attraction scale, but it absolutely applies to married men (although it should not, rationally speaking) with WWs. She's evaluating you against OM just as surely as if you've just met. What's your score?


Don't get me wrong, our sex life was fine before we had our kid. Now it wasn't on my level as most guys want it morning, noon, and night but we have to settle . I'd say we were at about twice a week before our kid and then down to maybe twice a month after for the first couple of months. I'm totally fine with twice a week. I think I'm going to propose at counseling that we put a schedule for sex basically on certain nights of the week so we don't lose that. If you leave it up to being in the right mood and what not with kids you will always be too tired or at least that's her excuse. I'm an average Joe in looks but have an athletic build and played college sports. I still take care of my body by working out. Like I said we have been together ultimately for 14 years only married for 5. So we've been together for a while. Thank you for all that info because I just don't get the female psyche whatsoever apparently.


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