# Teen Privacy-a lesson in phones, apps, sex and lying



## TikiKeen

Last night was sudden random phone check night for my teens (13/15). Both had broken the rules and had password-protected their phones without giving me the pw (I'm cool with passwords if I have them in case the phones are stolen, as the ex pays for one kid's iPhone and has that tracking access....and the ex is notoriously difficult to contact.) I saw that, and initiated the phone check.

13 y.o. Refused to give up the pw, so he's grounded from all electronic access for at least two weeks for being defiant. He also won't be getting paid for yard care he does for the duration; the yard care is mandatory. He gave up the pw 1.5 hours later, expecting me to reneg (and after H, the SD, yelled far too much; 8 years together and little contact with ex=SD gets to discipline them now.) I didn't give in. Nothing awful was found on the phone once I got in. I now want to tie that phone to my email. Ex refuses and thinks I'm being a meaniehead. 

13-y.o. is defiant after weekends at best bud's house. Kid is grounded from friends and all electronics for 2 weeks. he can watch movies I choose for us all to watch on Netflix, or TV I'm watching.

15 y.o. is apparently sexually active, has lied about where he was doing this stuff and now it's time for more sex talks and a dr visit about sexual safety. In my house, when you become active, you get a dr visit like an adult does. Annually. The kid's also grounded for lying about parents being home while the hanky-panky happened at friend's house. This grounding extends to the end of the school year, and again, I'm a big ol' meaniehead.

Solutions:
Groundings for 2 weeks (13 y.o.) and 5 weeks (15 y.o.) and we get a house phone. That includes not seeing the involved friends.

I see all parents FTF when the kids go anywhere.

No sleepovers for 13 y.o. now that he has disclosed DV at friend's house. Friend can come over here. I want to support friend's mom, and she so far has refused all help. Coffee with her is my next step, to tell her my own DV stories and offer to help her plan, should she be ready to do so.

Written sex ed program this summer for both kids, since they have a selective memory of our talks so far. I have the curriculum downloaded.

I'm debating making them earn their phones from now on: 15 y.o. can work and pay for it, but I'd have to drive kid to work. Licensing is at least 6 months away (eight months is more realistic). Younger kid can do yard work to earn his phone; there's plenty here.

I'm wondering about not having phones at all. I want to be able to contact them when they're out and about this summer, yet also want to curb the entitlement they have regarding this. Apps I disallow will be deleted. Phones go in my room at MY bedtime nightly, too. They can charge in there.

H disagrees with: letting them ever have phones again, charging the phones in our room, and getting a house phone. I think he's being too extreme. I have sole custody from ex, by the way.

Ideas? I'm contemplating having them write me essays about lying, as well.


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## tacoma

So...I'm not quite getting what they did wrong beyond denying you the password to the phone ( 1 kid).

What is all the grounding and discipline for?
What am I missing?


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## michzz

I think you're being way too extreme about the phones.

Making it a control issue.

Maybe what you ought to do is just dump the smart phones and getting them the old style cell with no apps, jut a phone number


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## TikiKeen

I hadn't thought about OS phones. They're cheap, too.

I want the truth. They lie, they get punished. No social life for a few weeks=punishment for lying. If he'd lied about anything other than sex, the punishment would still be two weeks. I probably should have noted that initially.


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## TikiKeen

I also want to add that being disallowed tech access seems to me to be the natural consequence of mis-using tech to break rules (15), and for using tech as the excuse to play control games (13).


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## Mr. Nail

Scheduled sudden random phone check. It didn't work to well for me. Well in truth it was jr. left his email open again and I read first lines. . . . 
Careful with the piling of punishments. Keep it simple. Keep it consistent. Don't add a punishment in the heat of the moment. It would be very much to your advantage if you three adults could agree on a set of rules.
MN


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## Happyfamily

I don't think I can stop them by age 15, and I sure can make myself an enemy of theirs by being a hypocrite. Were they to ask me what I was doing at 15 then I would have to say I was having sex like most of the other kids I knew.


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## turnera

I would first get hold of everything you can find on authoritative (not authoritarian) parenting and read it together with your H; methinks he has some learnin' to do. And given the kids' ages, things will go downhill fast if he continues to be so strict and unyielding. And adults SHOULD NEVER YELL at kids. If he does so, I would remove my kids from his presence. Period.


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## Cloaked

About the phones. If the bill is in their name and pay for it with money they earned then they own the service and you have no right to touch or take it. The same goes for if they bought the phone or was given as a gift. If they believe they do own the phone without the above your dealing with entitlement behavior.

If it was given as a gift you have no claim to the phone and it is very disrespectful to take it. If you pay the bill you can suspend service or whatever because that is yours to control.

The lying. White lies are excusable. The sex one implies he doesn't respect your judgement or himself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

My child didn't 'own' anything that I didn't have control over until she was 18.


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## Hope1964

Holy strict. I sure hope this doesn't backfire on you. My parents treated me that way so I just left home the minute I turned 16.


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## Maricha75

1. Any device: tablet, cell phone, gaming devices are MINE, even if they are my kids'. *I* decide IF or when they can use them, at my discretion. That is, to say, my husband and I make those decisions. Regardless, my kids can lose those PRIVILEGES at any time they do not follow house rules... whether that is cleaning their rooms, doing other chores, lying, etc. As long as they are under the age of 18, I DO have the right to take away such things, even if they are gifted. Even if they earn the money themselves. The items can, AND WILL, be removed from their possession, if they do not follow the rules. Period. It may be a period of a week, two weeks, a month, or even longer. These devices are NOT a right, they are a privilege.
2. The kid lied about who was at home. It's not about the sex, it's about saying he as going somewhere and that the parents were going to be home.... and the parents were not home. I would have done the same: punishment for specified amount of time for LYING, period. White lies are excusable? Seriously? No way, no how. If my kid gets caught lying, he/she gets punished accordingly.

So, OP, I am one who actually agrees with your points. I also agree about the phones going into your room, when you go to bed. I would do the same thing.


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## DoF

You gave your children a device that opens up UNLIMITED amount of options to them right from their room.

And you are surprised at the outcome?

The problem is YOU OP. Children should not have access to such devices and have the world at their fingertips.

It blow my mind that parents actually PAY $100 or so A MONTH to enable their kids to do what they please.

BILLIONS OF KIDS thru the history lived and survived without a phone, I'm sure your kids will too. 

This next upcoming smartphone generation SCARES me. Just to think about the future of this planet and this country.


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## PBear

I'm thinking the dumb phones is the way to go...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75

PBear said:


> I'm thinking the dumb phones is the way to go...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Under these circumstances? I concur.


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## Happyfamily

I'm not buying our kids gadgets. They can make their own money. 

I was working for regular pay at 16 (KFC). Before that in the summers my dad contracted corn acreage to detassle and all of us kids did the work. So I had enough money for a car, and that's how I got to KFC. I was a Candy Striper at 14, and it is a volunteer position at the hospital but my parents gave me an allowance because of it. 

This kind of reminds me of all the Dads who say they are going to kill a boy for kissing us. I don't find that attitude becoming at all. 

As far as the lies go, yeah - but there is a problem with being too invasive of their privacy. You can put kids in a position where there is tremendous pressure on them to lie.


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## turnera

Maricha75 said:


> So, OP, I am one who actually agrees with your points. I also agree about the phones going into your room, when you go to bed. I would do the same thing.


Same here. You handled it logically and thoughtfully. Now to just get your H to back off.


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## Maricha75

Happyfamily said:


> As far as the lies go, yeah - but there is a problem with being too invasive of their privacy. *You can put kids in a position where there is tremendous pressure on them to lie.*


You know what? There will always be "tremendous pressure" to do something that they, or even WE, know to be wrong. If they know the consequences of doing it, then it's up to them to decide what to do. If they choose to lie, then they have to deal with the consequences. "Tremendous pressure" is not a good excuse.


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## sh987

Point-form thoughts...

-My wife and I don't own smart phones, so the last thing we're going to do is buy one for either of our kids. We haven't been able to figure out why we would need one, let alone a 15-year old.

-My in-laws gave our son an e-reader for Christmas, which turned out really to be a tablet. Before he goes to bed, it's placed on the kitchen counter to rest. There's no need for it to be in his room at night, when he needs to get his sleep.

-I won't comment on the specifics of the punishments except to say that they don't seem all that harsh to me, though 1.5 months of grounding is definitely a lot. The kids didn't follow the (in my opinion extremely liberal) rules regarding the smart phones and lied to their parents. There does need to be consequences, right? So, the phones go bye-bye for now.

-I do disagree with the yelling. It's not something we do in our household. We've never needed to yell to let them know who's in charge, nor use corporal punishment. What others do is up to them, but that's how it is here. There are rules, and they need to be followed.

-Also: if they have phones so you can contact them when they're out-and-about, why can't they be simply dropped off on the counter while they're home? If they're truly so you can reach the kids in case of, then they don't need them on the couch, or in their room. We visited a family friend the other week, and what we saw were four different people on four different phones, all completely absent from the situation. Shouldn't people be plugged into their family once they're all together?


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## Happyfamily

Maricha75 said:


> You know what? There will always be "tremendous pressure" to do something that they, or even WE, know to be wrong. If they know the consequences of doing it, then it's up to them to decide what to do. If they choose to lie, then they have to deal with the consequences. "Tremendous pressure" is not a good excuse.


Nor is this an excuse for parents to act like they own you and give you zero dignity.

Kids are going to rebel when they feel like they have zero autonomy, dignity, and individual identity. The parent who suffocates their child deserves what they get. That does not make it right for a child to lie, no. But don't tell me that parents have no culpability. 

I am still young enough to remember clearly how my mother was so cunning about boxing my oldest brother into no-win situations with her interrogations. It ended up causing years of trouble, and in particular his wife does not let mom visit the grand children. So there you go, mom - congratulations. 

I disagree that there will "always" be tremendous pressure to lie. Parents have choices to make, and I am not going to ask my 15 year old sons if they touched the boobies of the girl next door. I expect that as children, they are going to be naturally curious just like I was with the neighbor boys and play "doctor". My God - my sister used to do shows for our cousins. 

Parents lie to their children, and if the children were allowed to ask extremely invasive questions about their sex lives, then the parents would lie even more. 

I can think of a lot of situations where lying to your parents is justified. Like for example when stoning to death is the penalty for kissing. Or where my 14 year old friend was being sexually abused by her father. She lied a lot to get out of his clutches. Or when the parents will beat you for saying you do not believe in God. Or when you have parents who drink too much, abuse prescription drugs, or are otherwise whacked-out and there is no reasoning with them. 

Yes, absolutely there are good reasons to lie to your parents.


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## VermisciousKnid

I think it's a parent's responsibility to be nosy. Parents should know who their kids hang with and what kind of stuff they may be planning with their friends. Sure, your kids may resent you for a while, but when they aren't involved in the underage drinking party where one of their acquaintances crashes the car and kills his friends or the pill party where one of them ODs they will get it. 

My area has had drunk driving deaths, a drunk kid climbing a railroad trestle and falling on his head, life-support being removed a few days later, and another case where one of them fell off a motor boat into the lake and the drunk driver turned around and ran over him which led to a head injury and drowning. 

The point being that teens will get into all kinds of stupid crap just by following the crowd, so parents should be as vigilant as possible. That includes meeting their friends and checking their cell phones.


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## DoF

PBear said:


> I'm thinking the dumb phones is the way to go...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thing very few people realize is that what our society labels as a "dumb phone" is actually a smart phone......and "smart phone" is really a dumb phone.

At least above applies to those that allow these devices and companies/websites etc to COMPLETE take over their life (we see a LOT of these characters within our society today).

Complete waste of time and dumbs down our entire generation......yet people actually PAY for it.

It's really crazy when you dig really deep and think about it.


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## sh987

Forgot about sex, teenagers, etc...

-We've had various versions of "The Talk" over the years with our son, all with information which was geared for his age. Last year, we talked pretty frankly about how he's moving into an age where kids will be having sex.

-We feel that education is our best tool in this area. The last time we had the talk, we bought a pack of condoms and put them in the medicine cabinet. We told him that, while sex is best practiced by adults in committed relationships, we understand realities. They are there for his protection, and we'll replenish them as needed. So far as yet, the pack is full. He's started seeing a girl, and I quietly reminded him that they are there, and if he's old/mature enough to have sex, then he's old/mature enough to use the protection we've provided him. He assured me that he'll do it: "I don't want to ever get an STD, and I really don't want to be a Dad yet."

-We don't want to turn sex into a battle or issue of discipline, and see that as having a huge chance of backfiring on those that do.


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## PBear

DoF said:


> Thing very few people realize is that what our society labels as a "dumb phone" is actually a smart phone......and "smart phone" is really a dumb phone.
> 
> At least above applies to those that allow these devices and companies/websites etc to COMPLETE take over their life (we see a LOT of these characters within our society today).
> 
> Complete waste of time and dumbs down our entire generation......yet people actually PAY for it.
> 
> It's really crazy when you dig really deep and think about it.


I have no idea what you're talking about. Either I'm so dumb I'm smart, or so smart I'm dumb. Please advise ASAP! 

In this case, by "dumb phone" I'm referring to one of the old style phones that can't have apps and stuff installed on it, and is no longer "cool". The point would be to give the kids a tool to communicate when they're late or need a ride, and nothing more. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoF

PBear said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about. Either I'm so dumb I'm smart, or so smart I'm dumb. Please advise ASAP!


My post was really pointed towards these smartphone zombies that many of our young/kids are or are turning into.

But let me give it a shot.....

What is there on your smartphone that REALLY adds value and improves your life? In what way does it actually make your life better? 

To me, it's a great toilet material and a travel companion. outside of that, I find it mostly useless.

PS. I don't pay for it either (job pays it and NO it's not a chain to my work.......I haven't even set up my work email on it yet hehe). If my job didn't pay for it, I wouldn't have it.


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## turnera

Happyfamily, you obviously come a horrible place in terms of your FOO but that doesn't mean everyone else runs their house like your folks did, and the kids aren't going to thus be conditioned into becoming self-protective out of need like you did. What she's describing is nowhere near excessive (except for the yelling), demoralizing, or inhumane. I know it's hard for you to see any sort of restriction as healthy but, in reality, it is.


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## turnera

VermisciousKnid said:


> I think it's a parent's responsibility to be nosy. Parents should know who their kids hang with and what kind of stuff they may be planning with their friends. Sure, your kids may resent you for a while, but when they aren't involved in the underage drinking party where one of their acquaintances crashes the car and kills his friends or the pill party where one of them ODs they will get it.


My DD23 knew at all times that I had the right to investigate what she did. She also knew that, if she gave me no reason to suspect that she was acting inappropriately, I was unlikely to look. I told her so, repeatedly, growing up, so she chose not to act up, to follow the (very liberal) rules, and to basically get to do almost anything she wanted because of the good behavior. Unlike most of her friends, whose parents were more like Happyfamily's were. We asked her once (after yet another friend bailed on an outing with us because she'd just been grounded - again) why she never did things to get grounded like all her friends. She just shrugged and said 'why would I do something that I know is going to get me in trouble?'


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## turnera

T/J: DoF, we used to take DD23 skiing every year and one of the main reasons was that, back then, the mountains didn't have cell towers, so my DH's company couldn't get hold of him on his required company phone for a whole week like they did when we vacationed anywhere else.


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## karole

turnera said:


> My DD23 knew at all times that I had the right to investigate what she did. She also knew that, if she gave me no reason to suspect that she was acting inappropriately, I was unlikely to look. I told her so, repeatedly, growing up, so she chose not to act up, to follow the (very liberal) rules, and to basically get to do almost anything she wanted because of the good behavior. Unlike most of her friends, whose parents were more like Happyfamily's were. We asked her once (after yet another friend bailed on an outing with us because she'd just been grounded - again) why she never did things to get grounded like all her friends*. She just shrugged and said 'why would I do something that I know is going to get me in trouble?'[/*QUOTE]
> 
> This sounds exactly like my daughter Tunera. I always told my daughter that I would trust her until she gave me a reason not to.


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## wilderness

Imo these punishments are way way too strict and heavy handed. no teenage boy wants their mother to know their business, edpecially their sexual business. i think you are being unreasonable. very unreasonable.


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## Happyfamily

sh987 said:


> Forgot about sex, teenagers, etc...
> 
> -We've had various versions of "The Talk" over the years with our son, all with information which was geared for his age.


Good for you. Us too. Our four year old has been asking us for a sister and we had to explain Daddy got a vasectomy. So the version he got was that Daddys have "seeds" that go into mommy's tummy, and they have been spying so they know how, but that Daddy had an operation so he has no more seeds. 




> -We feel that education is our best tool in this area.


Amen to that. 



> -We don't want to turn sex into a battle or issue of discipline, and see that as having a huge chance of backfiring on those that do.


Amen again. 

*turnera* where have I said there shouldn't be "any kinds of restrictions"? 

Are you here for reasonable discussion, or to make silly strawmen? We have all kinds of restrictions. Like not stepping into cars with strangers. To never be out of eyesight when we go places. Etc.

This is very clearly a discussion about rights to sexual privacy. I am never going to ask my kids if they masturbate for example. Nothing to gain and a lot to lose. 

I don't know what "FOO" is, and these acronyms are really annoying on this site. I'd compare what my mother did to what I am seeing right here in this thread. 

We start off with a framing where the kids are too spoiled to be buying their own stuff, which I disagree with for the very same reasons: that is not teaching them to be responsible adolescents paying their own way - and then use that bad decision to justify invading their privacy. 

Kids who are working their rear ends off academically and in the job market don't have a lot of time to be hanging with losers. Idle hands are the devil's workshop though so if kids have all this free time and the parents are supplying them with gadgets then guess what they'll be doing?


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## Hope1964

turnera said:


> Random phone check is a necessary corollary to allowing phones and internet in kids' lives.


No it isn't. My kids got phones when they were old enough to pay for them themselves and I have never ever done a 'random phone check'. Of course this means they were older than 13 when they got them, they were probably 15 or 16.


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## Hope1964

Oh, and they were all 'dumb phones' then


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## Hope1964

If a parent goes looking for something they WILL find it. Every kid ever born talks about sex with their friends, looks at porn, has sex at some point, lies, whatever. By checking, you're setting them up to fail, or to just go get their own burner phone to do whatever they want to.

A far, far better idea is to educate educate educate. Send them links to read on their email. Be their friend on facebook and comment on their posts. Talk to them. Buy them books. Show them movies/videos about things like cyber safety and bullying, safe sex, love and sex, whatever. Whatever you want them to learn, teach it to them. Don't wait till they screw up - because they WILL screw up - and then come down on them like a sack of hammers. Use their screw ups as a learning experience, not as an opportunity to just show them who's the boss.

I also don't believe in 'grounding', whatever that means (because it seems to mean something different to every parent). Natural and logical consequences that make sense are far more effective. When my kids lied to me, it usually meant that the next few times they wanted to go somewhere with friends or whatever I checked up on them to see if they were telling the truth. But if I felt they'd lied to me because there was an expectation in place that was perhaps no longer age appropriate, we would talk about it and there were times that the expectation I had was what changed.

I don't believe in parents setting up arbitrary rules that kids just have to follow. It should be a team effort, and expectations should be agreed upon, especially as kids get older.


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## Maricha75

Hope1964 said:


> If a parent goes looking for something they WILL find it. Every kid ever born talks about sex with their friends, looks at porn, has sex at some point, lies, whatever. By checking, you're setting them up to fail, or to just go get their own burner phone to do whatever they want to.


Talks about sex? Yes. Has sex? More than likely, but not EVERY kid. Some still do wait until they are married to have any sort of sexual contact. Lies? Again, many do. I truthfully do not remember lying to my parents about my whereabouts, nor with whom I went. Lying as a little kids? Yea, I know I did that.... mom and dad told me I did, and I dealt with the consequences. Look at porn? Nope! Not every kid looks at it. I never saw it until I was an adult. Even then, I found it revolting. So, no, not "every kid" does all of those things. And, in order for my kid to buy a burner phone, he'd have to have money, and a ride to the store. Who do you think takes him everywhere?


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## jb02157

TikiKeen said:


> I'm wondering about not having phones at all. I want to be able to contact them when they're out and about this summer, yet also want to curb the entitlement they have regarding this. Apps I disallow will be deleted. Phones go in my room at MY bedtime nightly, too. They can charge in there.


I think no phones is an excellent idea. If you ask me, kids shouldn't have cell phones to begin with. None of my kids have them. We have two that they can use but they cannot have them all the time, only if we need to get ahold of them.


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## michzz

My favorite teen behavior modifier was to threaten to take off the bedroom door. I only had to do it once.


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## Maricha75

michzz said:


> My favorite teen behavior modifier was to threaten to take off the bedroom door. I only had to do it once.


Heh our bedroom door was a blanket.... well, a sheet sometimes, too lol.


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## Hope1964

Maricha75 said:


> Talks about sex? Yes. Has sex? More than likely, but not EVERY kid. Some still do wait until they are married to have any sort of sexual contact. Lies? Again, many do. I truthfully do not remember lying to my parents about my whereabouts, nor with whom I went. Lying as a little kids? Yea, I know I did that.... mom and dad told me I did, and I dealt with the consequences. Look at porn? Nope! Not every kid looks at it. I never saw it until I was an adult. Even then, I found it revolting. So, no, not "every kid" does all of those things. And, in order for my kid to buy a burner phone, he'd have to have money, and a ride to the store. Who do you think takes him everywhere?


What I meant was that sooner or later every kid grows up and does those things, not that they necessarily do it AS a kid. Should have been clearer on that, sorry. And that we should be educating them about these things, not setting them up to fail by going looking for stuff.

I don't think just NOT having smartphones, or ANY phone, is a good idea at all. Teach them how to use them properly. I want my kids to know how to drive a car, not just NEVER drive one. Education is key. *Once you think they're old enough for a phone*, teach them what it's for and what's appropriate and then trust them to use it that way. If you think a 13 year old isn't old enough for a phone, they never should have gotten one in the first place.

Although some ADULTS apparently aren't old enough for smartphones either.


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## michzz

I like the way the military used to label the threat level regarding nuclear war. 

Not every situation requires DEFCON 1 response. usually DEFCON 4o or DEFCON 3 is enough. 

This applies to teenagers as much as the Ruskies.

DEFCON - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Happyfamily

jb02157 said:


> I think no phones is an excellent idea. If you ask me, kids shouldn't have cell phones to begin with. None of my kids have them. We have two that they can use but they cannot have them all the time, only if we need to get ahold of them.


It occurs to me that the people buying cell phones for their kids are also paying for plans, in the absence of which there would be no need for nor demands about monitoring. 

This is a pretty good subject to be covering, and it seems to me that when they start working this is the appropriate time for them to be buying phones. They'll need to call us occasionally then or in an emergency call 911. There were still payphones about when I was 15 ten years ago, but just try to find one now!


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## kag123

*Re: Re: Teen Privacy-a lesson in phones, apps, sex and lying*



turnera said:


> My DD23 knew at all times that I had the right to investigate what she did. She also knew that, if she gave me no reason to suspect that she was acting inappropriately, I was unlikely to look. I told her so, repeatedly, growing up, so she chose not to act up, to follow the (very liberal) rules, and to basically get to do almost anything she wanted because of the good behavior. Unlike most of her friends, whose parents were more like Happyfamily's were. We asked her once (after yet another friend bailed on an outing with us because she'd just been grounded - again) why she never did things to get grounded like all her friends. She just shrugged and said 'why would I do something that I know is going to get me in trouble?'


I have young kids, so not in the teen years yet. But I remember myself as a teen and it's all I can think about in this situation. I'm not sure that any parent truly has a large amount of control over their children. 

I quoted the above because it is very similar to the way I was raised. I wouldn't dare call my parents liberal, but they did preach to me that as long as I behaved they wouldn't rule with an iron fist. 

So, I learned how to be a VERY crafty liar. I was a model child at home, always very respectful and got along with my parents. I was an honor roll student. I brought my friends and boyfriends home to meet my parents to give them a sense of comfort. Anytime I asked for something - a curfew extension, to stay overnight at someones house, etc. I had an excellent cover story and all references checked out. 
I started having sex at 14 - but I used protection because I knew the consequences. I was smoking cigarettes at 13...my parents never knew. I was drinking and smoking pot at 14. I was sneaking out of friends houses (while there parents were there) in the middle of the night to go to parties thrown by much older kids where all kinds of drug dealing was going on. I knew how to roll my car in nuetral a whole block down the road before I turned on the ignition so no one would hear me pull away from a house. I showed up at school home room so that I wouldn't be counted absent for the day and snuck out the side door around the security guards when the bell rang and was out for the rest of the day. But I would come home at the same time as if I had been in school. 

I didn't have a cell phone. I had a job from the time I was 14 and my own bank account. I dealt with everything in cash so my parents couldn't trace it. 

Despite all of that, to this day my parents have no idea. I was so afraid of getting caught that I learned how to be super sneaky. I covered my tracks well. All of us covered for each other. I was a smart kid and got good grades...I wasn't dumb enough to miss a test or a graded assignment. 

My parents did talk to me about sex and drugs and drinking and what they expected from me (to never ever do it). I never went past pot despite the fact that I had easy access to a lot of harder stuff like LSD, ecstacy, herion, cocaine. That stuff scared me after I witnessed a few friends rapid decline into addiction once trying it at these parties we all went to. 

So...I dont know what the "right" thing to do is. Educating them is always good. I am scared for when I have teens. I don't think my parents really could have done anything to me short of having me locked up somewhere to get me to stop. I do think I had morals though which they instilled me with. 

For example I didn't sleep around. Sex was in the context of relationships...problem was I thought I loved every one of my boyfriends. I never got so drunk or high that I blacked out because I wanted to keep some semblance of judgment intact. I was always careful to be places in groups with people I trusted to have my back. 

I dunno...just rambling...but this does scare me a lot.


----------



## Maricha75

kag123, I was also the good girl. I got good grades, behaved (for the most part) at home, but that's where the similarities between us end. I didn't sneak around. I didn't smoke, never touched a drop of alcohol, except what I had for my First Communion and the taste mom gave us kids of a cheap wine she had. I didn't have a drop again until I was in my 30s, and that was a taste of something my mother-in-law had, and some whiskey for a toothache until I could see the dentist. That's all I have had. Drugs? Nada. No marijuana, no cocaine, no heroin, nothing. The only controlled substances I ever took were prescribed to me. 

My youngest sister, however, was different.... She smoked, she drank, she lied, she stole, she did different drugs... Funny thing about that? Mom and dad were more lax with her because I was so well behaved. Middle sister was a mix between the two of us. So, our experience was leniency = more likely to do things they/we shouldn't.


----------



## richie33

I have two young boys, hopefully when they get to the stage where we allow them to have their own smartphones it will be my responsibility as their father to check up on theses type of things. My wife could never understand the mind of a teenage boy. I do not need her shaming them if she sees porn or bikini pics. Just like if we had girls...she would take that role.
13 seems too young in my opinion.


----------



## Maricha75

richie33 said:


> I have two young boys, hopefully when they get to the stage where we allow them to have their own smartphones it will be my responsibility as their father to check up on theses type of things. My wife could never understand the mind of a teenage boy. I do not need her shaming them if she sees porn or bikini pics. Just like if we had girls...she would take that role.
> 13 seems too young in my opinion.


My son is 13. He has a phone. His dad and I are in agreement about porn. Believe it or not, my husband would be the more likely one to "shame", if anyone. He has developed his first crush... on the neighbor's niece. He denies, and I told him that I will NEVER tease/ridicule him for having a crush on a girl. My husband, however, began teasing him as soon as he learned of it. I saw how much it upset our son and I told my husband to knock it off. I wasn't nice about telling him to knock it off, either. I was "Mama Bear" about it. So, even with both of us having the same stance on the subject of porn, my husband is the one who is more likely to fly off the handle, not me. Girls in bikinis? Doesn't bother me.


----------



## wilderness

Maricha75 said:


> Maybe you should look back at the OP, too. She did a random phone check after seeing they had passwords on them, and the parents were not informed. Until our kids turn 18, we have ALL passwords to their accounts/devices. This is non-negotiable. And you want to know a secret? I have, on occasion, used his phone when mine was charging. I've also looked things up for him, on his phone, because he asked me to.
> 
> Humiliating a child? Don't break the house rules. Don't lie to your parents... and I'm talking about the fact that the kid said the other parents were home, when, in fact, they were not. THAT was the big lie. THAT is something I would not tolerate, at all. Before anyone asks, no, I didn't go to riends houses unless parents were there, OR mom and dad were ok with me being there without the parents there. I didn't lie about it.


Whether you are right or wrong many kids are going to be resrntful of you having their passwords. That is the type of thing that has the potential to really harm relationships. I happen to believe that it is demeaning to a teenager to control their passwords.


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## Maricha75

wilderness said:


> Whether you are right or wrong many kids are going to be resrntful of you having their passwords. That is the type of thing that has the potential to really harm relationships. I happen to believe that it is demeaning to a teenager to control their passwords.


 And you are entitled to your opinion. I just happen to disagree with it.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## turnera

wilderness said:


> Whether you are right or wrong many kids are going to be resrntful of you having their passwords. That is the type of thing that has the potential to really harm relationships. I happen to believe that it is demeaning to a teenager to control their passwords.


It's not a parent's job to be his child's friend; it's his job to be his protector until he's old enough to make better decisions. It's a kid's job to be resentful of his parents - until he's old enough to realize they knew his passwords because they were protecting him, and then he thanks them for caring enough.


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## wilderness

turnera said:


> It's not a parent's job to be his child's friend; it's his job to be his protector until he's old enough to make better decisions. It's a kid's job to be resentful of his parents - until he's old enough to realize they knew his passwords because they were protecting him, and then he thanks them for caring enough.


I highly doubt most kids would thank their parents for trying to control them in this fashion. Maybe the kid would learn to FORGIVE, but most would not be thanking. I dont think its very caring to try and control, demean, or embarrass young men/women.


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## TikiKeen

With the existence of Snapchat and other "get rid of the evidence" IM apps, checking is a necessity. Hell, even local law enforcement speaks to the kids about that during internet safety workshops in school.

The punishment stands at:
2 weeks for disallowed apps and pw we didn't know for DS13. Still can't do social stuff, he sees best friend at school and in carpool so they're solid. His best friend lectured him in the car about "jacking with" his phone and getting in trouble. That's the kind of peer pressure I like!

reduced DS15 to 1 week after talking. It was funny to hear "Eeew Mom! I've been dating this guy for only 2 months! No way would I have sex. I mean, I know virginity isn't a gift, but it's also super personal. You were right about that brain development stuff."

13 will be paid for the mowing, full price. 

Note: DS15 is a female-to-male pre-op trans, so pregnancy would be an issue. Just wanted to remind you all of that (see discussion from last fall about that in Family for details.)

The kids are actually a little excited about the sex ed workshop I'm giving them this summer, and informed me that we've already taught them more about how to know when they're ready to progress through different situations than their school ever taught. One of the kid's friends has already asked if he can ask his mom if he can be here for it too. 

Options for those looking phones: we use monthly no-contract plans, and cheap (yet Android) phones for me, H and DS15. the phone can always not be renewed (if the kid does something major) or we change to a better provider more easily.

H and his yelling? Yeah, much more happened today between me & him, so his "say" in what happens to the kids is now more limited. The yelling, combined with him questioning my decisions with food, medical care etc have led me to think he wants control, not a joint decision...oy vey. I really wanted to hear his ideas of a new family contract, too. We have one with all the rules the kids had broken, signed by the whole family, and the kids had input into those rules. I usually revisit it during the summer and as they age, too.

I know they'll have sex. I know they'll lie, too. I also know they'll make crap decisions sometimes. The consequences from us are far better than getting beat up or killed by other teens, or stalked by predatory adults posing as teens, or arrested for having sex in public. All those things have happened in my region in the past month. It's called "safety" for a reason.


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## Maricha75

wilderness said:


> turnera said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a parent's job to be his child's friend; it's his job to be his protector until he's old enough to make better decisions. It's a kid's job to be resentful of his parents - until he's old enough to realize they knew his passwords because they were protecting him, and then he thanks them for caring enough.
> 
> 
> 
> I highly doubt most kids would thank their parents for trying to control them in this fashion. Maybe the kid would learn to FORGIVE, but most would not be thanking. I dont think its very caring to try and control, demean, or embarrass young men/women.
Click to expand...

I would. I HAVE thanked my parents for how "strict" they were with me. So sorry that you can't see the difference between parents doing things to protect their children and those who truly are trying to demean, embarrass and control them. I'm thinking you are projecting... a lot.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## wilderness

Maricha75 said:


> I would. I HAVE thanked my parents for how "strict" they were with me. So sorry that you can't see the difference between parents doing things to protect their children and those who truly are trying to demean, embarrass and control them. I'm thinking you are projecting... a lot.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


C'mon now. Spying on a kids cel phone does not protect them. But it IS a very good way to generate lasting animosity.


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## TikiKeen

turnera, I have a question, since we haven't been to "nakey photo land", so to speak. When that happened, did you discuss with DD that she could have been charged as a sex offender, or anything along those lines? My state can and does prosecute minors that way, and we've talked about it, but I wonder how that conversation goes with other parents.

My friends say "well we just tell them not to" and I think "Good grief. Do they have any idea how public those photos can go?"


----------



## turnera

TikiKeen said:


> turnera, I have a question, since we haven't been to "nakey photo land", so to speak. When that happened, did you discuss with DD that she could have been charged as a sex offender, or anything along those lines? My state can and does prosecute minors that way, and we've talked about it, but I wonder how that conversation goes with other parents.
> 
> My friends say "well we just tell them not to" and I think "Good grief. Do they have any idea how public those photos can go?"


I found them accidentally, and I just went to her and said 'I want to talk about the pictures you sent ABC.' Deer in headlights. I said we need to talk about what can happen, now that this kid has these pictures. And we talked about it. I didn't say a thing about her or shame her. We just talked about what he might do with them. I asked her what she wanted to do about it, and I helped her brainstorm. I told her I'd have to monitor to make sure this was a one-time thing. She understood. And she thanked me for not making her feel ashamed.


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## Unique Username

As parents we are responsible for all actions by our children until they are at least 18. 
They do something wrong - we pay (in all sorts of ways)

I can't believe that a lot of you are quick to have full disclosure from your spouse - passwords/emails/texts etc. but wouldn't dream of doing that with your kids?

I know my teenage son's passwords to everything and do check periodically.
No shaming about anything. But certainly a good opportunity to discuss whatever needs discussing. 
Have you all forgotten about predators? Of course it is okay to monitor their facebook, twitter, youtube etc.
They are KIDS - they don't always KNOW the ramifications of their own words or actions...nor are they aware of the agenda of others.

Peer pressure is still a huge ass problem. Best defense - helping your child have high self esteem. 

Anyway - everybody parents differently.
Most people take their own childhood and try to remedy what they didn't like about what their parents did - but not from a kid mentality - from an adult perspective. 
And then there are people who change nothing and don't break the cycle or they had a great childhood and see no need to change much of anything.


As for Wilderness, dude you have your own mental problems. Stop trying to shame someone else for supporting their child. How dare you even bring that up!? And it is totally irrelevant to the discussion.


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## tacoma

DoF said:


> But let me give it a shot.....
> 
> What is there on your smartphone that REALLY adds value and improves your life? In what way does it actually make your life better?


DropBox - I have immediate access to any and every file I need for my job on the go without having to spend time at a computer.
Scanner/camera- can convert any file or image into a digital format and carry it with me in seconds.
Timer- Used extensively for my work throughout the day.
Calendar- appointments on the go, constant reminders of where and when I'm supposed to be without me having to think about it.
Google - enough said.
Conversion app- converts units into other units while I work no stopping necessary.
SAT NAV- Know where I'm going and when I'll be there.
Kindle/PDF Reader- can view any document or manual downloaded from the net while I work.
Contacts- a database of employees/purveyors/customers and all their info.
E-Mail/text- immediate communication with clients/purveyors/family
Notes- Note taking for work throughout my day.

I could go on and on, I don't know how I ever did my job without this thing.
I've taught my kid to use it much the same way for her schoolwork.

I've cut down my desk time (down time) by 50-75 percent just by carrying this thing in my pocket and am far more productive with it than without it.


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## Unique Username

Unique Username said:


> As parents we are responsible for all actions by our children until they are at least 18.
> They do something wrong - we pay (in all sorts of ways)
> 
> I can't believe that a lot of you are quick to have full disclosure from your spouse - passwords/emails/texts etc. but wouldn't dream of doing that with your kids?
> 
> I know my teenage son's passwords to everything and do check periodically.
> No shaming about anything. But certainly a good opportunity to discuss whatever needs discussing.
> Have you all forgotten about predators? Of course it is okay to monitor their facebook, twitter, youtube etc.
> They are KIDS - they don't always KNOW the ramifications of their own words or actions...nor are they aware of the agenda of others.
> 
> Peer pressure is still a huge ass problem. Best defense - helping your child have high self esteem.
> 
> Anyway - everybody parents differently.
> Most people take their own childhood and try to remedy what they didn't like about what their parents did - but not from a kid mentality - from an adult perspective.
> And then there are people who change nothing and don't break the cycle or they had a great childhood and see no need to change much of anything.
> 
> 
> As for Wilderness, dude you have your own mental problems. Stop trying to shame someone else for supporting their child. How dare you even bring that up!? And it is totally irrelevant to the discussion.


AND

I think if more parents were to actually monitor their kids interactions on social media - they would have a heads up as soon as the cyber-bullying began.
Lives can be saved.


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## Maricha75

Unique Username said:


> AND
> 
> I think if more parents were to actually monitor their kids interactions on social media - they would have a heads up as soon as the cyber-bullying began.
> Lives can be saved.


:allhail::allhail:
:allhail::allhail:


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## coffee4me

Unique Username said:


> AND
> 
> I think if more parents were to actually monitor their kids interactions on social media - they would have a heads up as soon as the cyber-bullying began.
> Lives can be saved.


The Ask app is the worst for this. It's a pool of negativity and vile comments behind the wall of anonymity.


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## turnera

DD23 and I talk about this extensively... the negative environment that the internet has caused...that willingness to be absolutely VILE to people behind a screen, doing things you would never DARE to do if you had to do it to their face. Nearly every problem she's had in the last 10 years have been because of something to do with the internet and social media.


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## Amplexor

Thread jack cleaned up. Nuf' said!


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## turnera

The random check usually involves just running through the names your kid is contacting, to make sure you know them or have heard of them and for websites that might be dangerous (like how to build a bomb or something). The only time I ever looked at actual content was after the aforementioned picture episode and that was only for about 3 months, every few days, to make sure he hadn't passed them along and she wasn't getting in trouble that she needed help with.


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## wilderness

turnera said:


> The random check usually involves just running through the names your kid is contacting, to make sure you know them or have heard of them and for websites that might be dangerous (like how to build a bomb or something). The only time I ever looked at actual content was after the aforementioned picture episode and that was only for about 3 months, every few days, to make sure he hadn't passed them along and she wasn't getting in trouble that she needed help with.


What would you have done had he passed those photos along?


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## TikiKeen

Google image searches are a help, too, turnera. Same idea as TinEye.


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## turnera

wilderness said:


> What would you have done had he passed those photos along?


I would have helped her research her legal and social rights and possible choices and encouraged her to take the steps to rectify what she did. She's 23 now and still, despite going away to school for 4 years, doesn't know how to accomplish a lot of things - how to find out, who to call, what her rights are. I don't do them for her but I instruct her on how. 

For instance, I make her make her own doctor appointments and she told me the other day that most of her friends still are afraid of doing so. I was kicked out when I turned 18 so I learned how to do it all real fast; but most kids today aren't in that position.

Of course, if it became way out of control, I would have stepped in and started contacting other adults to stop the whole thing. As parents should.


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## Maricha75

wilderness said:


> C'mon now. Spying on a kids cel phone does not protect them. But it IS a very good way to generate lasting animosity.


wilderness, it can do both. As turnera has pointed out, there is that potential for the "nude selfies" to be sent, and once that's done, those pics could end up anywhere. Yes, we teach our children not to do these sorts of things. Does that mean they absolutely will not do it? No. And then, there are the predators who pretend to be teens. So, yes, we monitor their activity on the phones, on the internet, etc. Make sure they aren't giving out a lot of personal information or potentially risk them being angry with me for awhile.... I'll take their anger. I'd rather keep them safe. I am their mother, not their friend.


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## wilderness

turnera said:


> *I would have helped her research her legal and social rights and possible choices and encouraged her to take the steps to rectify what she did*. She's 23 now and still, despite going away to school for 4 years, doesn't know how to accomplish a lot of things - how to find out, who to call, what her rights are. I don't do them for her but I instruct her on how.
> 
> For instance, I make her make her own doctor appointments and she told me the other day that most of her friends still are afraid of doing so. I was kicked out when I turned 18 so I learned how to do it all real fast; but most kids today aren't in that position.
> 
> Of course, if it became way out of control, I would have stepped in and started contacting other adults to stop the whole thing. As parents should.



(to the bolded) That is exactly what I thought you would say. 

Once a girl sends pictures to a boy, those pictures are the property of the boy. He can do anything with them that he wants, including showing them to his friends. Yet you would encourage your daughter in such a situation to harm the boy for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

More and more, Turnera, you are showing your true colors.


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## turnera

He did nothing wrong? Um, wrong. He goaded her, pleaded with her, harassed her, sweet-talked her, lied to her.

Good grief.


----------



## Unique Username

wilderness said:


> (to the bolded) That is exactly what I thought you would say.
> 
> Once a girl sends pictures to a boy, those pictures are the property of the boy. He can do anything with them that he wants, including showing them to his friends. Yet you would encourage your daughter in such a situation to harm the boy for doing absolutely nothing wrong.
> 
> More and more, Turnera, you are showing your true colors.


----------



## Maricha75

turnera said:


> He did nothing wrong? Um, wrong. He goaded her, pleaded with her, harassed her, sweet-talked her, lied to her.
> 
> Good grief.


"Boys will be boys", turnera. Surely you know that!


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## pidge70

turnera said:


> He did nothing wrong? Um, wrong. He goaded her, pleaded with her, harassed her, sweet-talked her, lied to her.
> 
> Good grief.


Gawd turnera, quit being such a man hater!.......:rofl:


----------



## wilderness

turnera said:


> He did nothing wrong? Um, wrong. He goaded her, pleaded with her, harassed her, sweet-talked her, lied to her.
> 
> Good grief.


So because he sweet talked her he deserves, what, exactly? To have his parents called? To have his school called? To have the police called? 

All for showing pictures _that belonged to him_ to people of his choosing.


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## turnera

Yeah, and this prize has no job, no car, has two babies by two different girls who won't let him near them for whatever it is he did.


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## turnera

wilderness said:


> So because he sweet talked her he deserves, what, exactly? To have his parents called? To have his school called? To have the police called?
> 
> All for showing pictures _that belonged to him_ to people of his choosing.


If he just showed them, we'd never know, would we? If he DISTRIBUTED THEM, you can bet by God his mom would have heard from me.


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## wilderness

turnera said:


> Yeah, and this prize has no job, no car, has two babies by two different girls who won't let him near them for whatever it is he did.


That must mean he deserves jail, right Turnera? Because Lord knows your judgment should be the arbiter of whether a man goes to jail or not, despite the facts of the case.


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## Unique Username

wilderness said:


> I highly doubt most kids would thank their parents for trying to control them in this fashion. Maybe the kid would learn to FORGIVE, but most would not be thanking. * I dont think its very caring to try and control, demean, or embarrass young men/women*.


BUT, it is okay to do that to adults, like you have here on TAM and on this thread?


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## Unique Username




----------



## EnjoliWoman

It's a hard area and the dynamics are different with every parent/child combination.

I've seen my BFF's ULTRA strict policies completely backfire. She removed laptop and phone for a month because of eye rolling. Kids do need to be able to express frustration. They may not like the rules, but they have to obey them. Now this kid is lying about nearly everything, disobeying (and lying to accomplish) parents at every turn, coming very close to not graduating and failing most classes... this kid was two years ahead of peers in school, super smart and wanted to go to college. Now she just wants to move out, get a boyfriend and 'work at a restaurant'.

I provide a smart phone. My kid loves her music and a couple games. I'm fine with what she uses the internet for and I can control her access. It's only another $5 a month to be able to log into my carrier's website and limit her search engine's ability. I can also set times that it can't be used for internet, text, phone calls or turn all service off completely during a certain time. I DO insist on having her passcode and I do randomly check. And actually not because of HER, but because several years ago a boy sent her a photo of his penis. I chose to contact the boy's parents who handled it. She realizes that it's much more serious than having photos get out amongst her peers - it can be construed as child pornography. 

I do scan texts randomly to see what other kid are doing. If they talk about lying to parents, drinking, doing drugs, skipping school, etc. And actually kiddo usually volunteers that stuff. She'll tell me about the kids and we'll talk about their choices. I know my daughter tried a cigarette. I know where it was and who it was with. I did not punish her. She is unlikely to try it again after our talk. I use the things I learn from her texts as conversation starters for important topics.



I was overprotected as a kid. I had NO worldly experience and I seldom liked except by omission - sex with boyfriend. But to be a sheltered kid in this TMI world? Disastrous.

I think the extreme punishment of the older kid is going to result in his lying better. He'll have a hard time scheduling rendezvous without a phone but when he gets it back there will be a code. Now he'll say he's go a craving for ice cream and it will mean sex. A serious conversation about the responsibilities of sex and about respect - for the girl, for her parents - would be a much better approach IMO.

The younger one just wanted some privacy. They can immediately delete any message they don't want you to see. If they use snap chat you'll have no idea what they send or receive. So it's best to cultivate a relationship of trust and open communication and foster respect for parents' views.


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## turnera

wilderness said:


> That must mean he deserves jail, right Turnera? Because Lord knows your judgment should be the arbiter of whether a man goes to jail or not, despite the facts of the case.


FTR, you're not worth replying to, so I won't waste bandwidth on you any more.


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## pidge70

wilderness said:


> That must mean he deserves jail, right Turnera? Because Lord knows your judgment should be the arbiter of whether a man goes to jail or not, despite the facts of the case.


Awwww, someone's threadjacking again...who's being a bad boy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Happyfamily

turnera said:


> She's 23 now and still, despite going away to school for 4 years, doesn't know how to accomplish a lot of things - how to find out, who to call, what her rights are. I don't do them for her but I instruct her on how.


I see this as the fundamental distinction between points of view on this.

My four year old can use google. A 23 year old with four years of college can too. They can write research papers with bibliographies and all of the appropriate mechanics like abstract, introduction, body, and conclusion. 

Society has extended childhood, and not because anything biological happened in the last few centuries, but because of the enormous increase in wealth. Children do not have to work in the fields or factories, nor take on any other responsibilities that were so common in past ages. It isn't because they are physically or mentally incapable. When we treat them as children, that's what you get. 

There are times when we do treat them like adults, for example when a 14 year old executes his parents. Then all of this garbage about 14 year olds being "children" suddenly vanishes and the hypocrisy is laid bare. The youngest ever tried as an adult is age 11.

Hypocrisy is loathed by everyone, but especially adolescents who are actually punished for the very things they see adults relentlessly laying before them. Everywhere you look is sexualization. In television, movies, advertising, etc. The little girls are encouraged to dress in skimpy cheer-dance outfits and shake their booty in front of the entire community, with nothing but sheer fabric separating their sexual organs from 100% view - and yet we have these stupid hypocritical laws and social mores that are so punitive for something that is qualitatively the same.

Some of the laws are just preposterous. For example, two teens can have sex with each other no problem. But if one sends a picture to the other over a cell phone, this can be a prison sentence. 

I disagree with the whole extended childhood culture, and see a lot of it as having to do with adults thinking they own their offspring. Chattel property, not someone with rights. Just as with black slavery we had all of this pretentious excusing because after all, black people aren't really fully human....

Some of us will go so far as to imply our 23 year old is still a child when it suits our argumentative purpose. But I will bet that when it suits otherwise this 23 year old is framed as this super mature, responsible adult that would make a good Senator or something.


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## turnera

Well, since the brain doesn't stop growing or developing until around age 25, you won't hear it from me.


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## TikiKeen

I'm starting to really like the ignore feature here....

DS13 has spent the afternoon working on a script for a class, and we've decided to make a film short this summer. This punishment feels pretty good so far....


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## turnera

Make sure to replace electronic time with family time. Board games are your friend. And I can teach you an awesome card game that's lots of fun.


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## john117

Our house is protected by a pretty sophisticated security system that includes a few well hidden cameras in common areas and a DVR. Unless you scale the walls you'll be seen. 

A couple times I did detect non squirrels or other wildlife coming into the house. Quite hilarious actually as he was aware of the cameras but did not know where they were. Quite funny. 

I let the daughter know that the next time it happens it's posted on YouTube. It never happened again.


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## Happyfamily

turnera said:


> Well, since the brain doesn't stop growing or developing until around age 25...


Fallacy of drawing the false conclusion. To wit: the brain has not fully developed until 25, therefore teenagers cannot add or subtract... or whatever the task is. 

Once we are in the club ourselves of course, we want to find any excuse to keep others out. 

I was expecting someone clever enough to say that you can't be a senator until you are 30 by virtue of the constitution...


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## turnera

Well, aren't you witty? smh


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## As'laDain

TikiKeen, i think your doing a great job.


----------



## WallaceBea

TikiKeen said:


> Last night was sudden random phone check night for my teens (13/15). Both had broken the rules and had password-protected their phones without giving me the pw (I'm cool with passwords if I have them in case the phones are stolen, as the ex pays for one kid's iPhone and has that tracking access....and the ex is notoriously difficult to contact.) I saw that, and initiated the phone check.
> 
> 13 y.o. Refused to give up the pw, so he's grounded from all electronic access for at least two weeks for being defiant. He also won't be getting paid for yard care he does for the duration; the yard care is mandatory. He gave up the pw 1.5 hours later, expecting me to reneg (and after H, the SD, yelled far too much; 8 years together and little contact with ex=SD gets to discipline them now.) I didn't give in. Nothing awful was found on the phone once I got in. I now want to tie that phone to my email. Ex refuses and thinks I'm being a meaniehead.
> 
> 13-y.o. is defiant after weekends at best bud's house. Kid is grounded from friends and all electronics for 2 weeks. he can watch movies I choose for us all to watch on Netflix, or TV I'm watching.
> 
> 15 y.o. is apparently sexually active, has lied about where he was doing this stuff and now it's time for more sex talks and a dr visit about sexual safety. In my house, when you become active, you get a dr visit like an adult does. Annually. The kid's also grounded for lying about parents being home while the hanky-panky happened at friend's house. This grounding extends to the end of the school year, and again, I'm a big ol' meaniehead.
> 
> Solutions:
> Groundings for 2 weeks (13 y.o.) and 5 weeks (15 y.o.) and we get a house phone. That includes not seeing the involved friends.
> 
> I see all parents FTF when the kids go anywhere.
> 
> No sleepovers for 13 y.o. now that he has disclosed DV at friend's house. Friend can come over here. I want to support friend's mom, and she so far has refused all help. Coffee with her is my next step, to tell her my own DV stories and offer to help her plan, should she be ready to do so.
> 
> Written sex ed program this summer for both kids, since they have a selective memory of our talks so far. I have the curriculum downloaded.
> 
> I'm debating making them earn their phones from now on: 15 y.o. can work and pay for it, but I'd have to drive kid to work. Licensing is at least 6 months away (eight months is more realistic). Younger kid can do yard work to earn his phone; there's plenty here.
> 
> I'm wondering about not having phones at all. I want to be able to contact them when they're out and about this summer, yet also want to curb the entitlement they have regarding this. Apps I disallow will be deleted. Phones go in my room at MY bedtime nightly, too. They can charge in there.
> 
> H disagrees with: letting them ever have phones again, charging the phones in our room, and getting a house phone. I think he's being too extreme. I have sole custody from ex, by the way.
> 
> Ideas? I'm contemplating having them write me essays about lying, as well.


You remind me so much of my parents, and I mean that as a compliment. 

When I used to get grounded (and I was grounded A LOT) it included taking away my phone privileges. 

When I got my first job at 15 years old, and started paying for my own cell phone, my parents couldn't really justify taking it away from me because it paying for it with my own money. 

Anyway, my point is, I do not think you are being unfair. Actions have consequences. 

If you really want them to have their cell phones for safety reasons, can you get them a plan without data and texting or something? That way they can call out if they need to, or you can reach them if need be, but the privileges that come with having the phone (texting, playing with apps) are taken away.


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