# To Open or Not to Open?



## GoodFunLife (Apr 24, 2015)

I'd love to hear from anyone who has experience with an open marriage. Situation as follows - solid 15+ year marriage with kids, financially stable, no infidelity or major relationship issues or complaints but her attraction has been steadily fading over the past year. Might just be going through a phase but she's sending me vibes that she's less interested than ever in being intimate or sexual - understandable after long time together and lucky I suppose to have taken this long for this moment to arise.

We still get along well outside the bedroom and have a very good life together. I'm very involved with my kids and don't want to let sex problems break apart a great family dynamic. But at same time I'm still very into her and not wild about the prospects of prolonged downward spiral in the sex & intimacy department. I worry that our connection will eventually deteriorate to nothing more than good friends living under the same roof raising kids together which is not at all what fuels me.

Much to my surprise she has recently suggested the possibility of opening things up to take some of the pressure off if one of us felt the need. We're pretty progressive but I never imagined she was thinking about something like this for us. My antenna is up - for years she would have cut my balls off at the hint of me having an affair and now she's giving me a pass to go roam. I know many guys who would kill for this freedom and maybe someday I'll get there but right now my first choice would be to do the work to get the love and passion flowing again. Am I crazy to think this way? I'm also not naive and recognize that she wouldn't be suggesting this just to get me off her back - as good a woman as she is there's gotta be something in it for her too ...


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

intheory said:


> The "something in it for her too", could be that *she already has a specific guy in mind* . . .perhaps?


^ ^ ^
THIS.

No way should you open up your marriage, especially if it's not what you want.

The quickest way to a divorce is to do this.

She has someone else in mind. She is just waiting for permission. A license to cheat.

If she was really interested in spicing up your marriage, she would suggest marriage counseling. Not sleeping with other men.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Agreed with the two posters above, first thing I thought of when I read about her suggesting an open marriage was she already had someone lined up. Sounds like she wants to cheat, but be able to do it guilty free while keeping all the other benefits of being married.

I personally would not kill for this freedom, sounds great on paper, doubt it ever ends up well...


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Also, if you do decide to go down the open route, there are risks involved as well. People have three separate drives when it comes to motivation, romantic love, attachment, and lust. Normally, stellar relationship will invoke all three to a high degree. The risk involved is someone triggering or having the neurons fire those separate drive more than you. That means there is a chance that you could be second or third in your wife's life, and you will need to be strong as an individual if that ever happens.

For instance, someone comes along and fires that lust, and romantic drive more than you do, her brain and which all these drives are connected to the addiction portion of our brains, will motivate her to be more, or more of her brain will activate in positive ways to this person.

I know an older couple in their forties, who had a long time successful open relationship gave me that advice, to be happy as much as possible out side of the relationship, and to have other things that motivate me. I was in a poly relationship as a secondary while in college, and when her other bf got a job outside of the state, she went away with him. Success relies on chances and circumstances outside your control.

I knew of a hot wife who left her husband when she fell in love after sex with someone. It turns out there was an instant attraction, love at first sight, not to mention they had more compatibility together than she did with her husband. Eventually she married the new guy and they are happy still after five years. Her ex was the one who pushed her into the hot wife lifestyle.

So I know some successful ones and not so successful ones. And if she does fall in love, are you willing to share a life with her new partner as well if she decides she wants that person as well?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Well, proceed cautiously and with a LOT of discussion about various scenarios, issues, pitfalls, etc. She may have someone in mind for herself, or may just be throwing out the idea as a possible way to spice things up for you both. Time - and discussion - will probably make it clear just what it's about.

We've had an open relationship for the past 15 years - almost from the start of our dating, when we got into a polyamorous situation that lasted quite a while and worked out very well for all four of us.

Ever since then, we've had a cautiously open relationship, meaning we discuss any possible new partners and are careful to be sure we keep each other as the priority no matter what. Our relationship is extremely solid and stable too, and we've never lost the spark between us even after all this time.

Consider discussing veto power, and what would it take to end the open arrangement if one of you decides that's what they want. Agree to check in frequently and discuss any issues. Consider too, that this may NOT be the right thing for YOUR relationship. Things can go very well, of course - but they can also go badly. There are risks, but many can be mitigated with careful planning.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
the two couples I know who had open relationships. One ended in divorce. The other couple are pretty unhappy.

I think it *can* work well for some people, but not for most. 

FWIW, I have no moral objections, but I know it wouldn't work for me. Sex and love are too tightly intertwined in my brain.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Also, how would you feel if let's say your wife is having sex and you are striking out, so you are in no better position? Are you fine lying down next to your wife in bed knowing that possibly right before some guy had his way with her? How about the idea that there is now an increased odd of an STD coming into your house?


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

GoodFunLife said:


> I
> 
> Much to my surprise she has recently suggested the possibility of opening things up to take some of the pressure off if one of us felt the need. ... now she's giving me a pass to go roam.


Nice little bit of legerdemain there, she has you focusing on whats in it for you, because she "knows" you might "feel the need".

Ha ha ha "If *ONE* of us felt the need".

She has lost interest in/attraction for you, and it will likely never be back.

There are some here who do this even one posting on your thread now I believe.

I would like to ask, is this a cure for a couple whose sex life is weak or in a downward spiral? Are the people who are successful here those who have a strong sex life but desire variety, but have communication, honesty, strong connection, or fading, disinterested, and in decline, I wounder?


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

Could be a test too.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

GoodFunLife said:


> I'd love to hear from anyone who has experience with an open marriage. Situation as follows - solid 15+ year marriage with kids, financially stable, no infidelity or major relationship issues or complaints but her attraction has been steadily fading over the past year. Might just be going through a phase but she's sending me vibes that she's less interested than ever in being intimate or sexual - understandable after long time together and lucky I suppose to have taken this long for this moment to arise.
> 
> We still get along well outside the bedroom and have a very good life together. I'm very involved with my kids and don't want to let sex problems break apart a great family dynamic. But at same time I'm still very into her and not wild about the prospects of prolonged downward spiral in the sex & intimacy department. I worry that our connection will eventually deteriorate to nothing more than good friends living under the same roof raising kids together which is not at all what fuels me.
> 
> Much to my surprise she has recently suggested the possibility of opening things up to take some of the pressure off if one of us felt the need. We're pretty progressive but I never imagined she was thinking about something like this for us. My antenna is up - for years she would have cut my balls off at the hint of me having an affair and now she's giving me a pass to go roam. *I know many guys who would kill for this freedom* and maybe someday I'll get there but right now my first choice would be to do the work to get the love and passion flowing again. Am I crazy to think this way? I'm also not naive and recognize that she wouldn't be suggesting this just to get me off her back - as good a woman as she is there's gotta be something in it for her too ...


I have know a few. They all regretted the decision, as it ended their marriages.

You need to up your game...big time. 

Open Marriage =Worst Idea Ever


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

MountainRunner said:


> Could be a test too.


Yep....I would bet large its at least a loyal test...of the 
"would he share me" variety
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> *She has someone else in mind. She is just waiting for permission. A license to cheat.*
> 
> If she was really interested in spicing up your marriage, she would suggest marriage counseling. Not sleeping with other men.



:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Nailed it. And I'll kick it up a notch by saying that it is possible that she may already be having an affair - at least an EA (emotional affair) which she wants to change to a PA (physical - sexual - affair).

OP, it's time for you to start checking up on your wife's daily activities without alerting her. E-mail, and phone are good places to start.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

GoodFunLife said:


> Much to my surprise she has recently suggested the possibility of opening things up to take some of the pressure off if one of us felt the need.


 Your wife suggesting "opening things up to take some of the pressure off if one of us felt the need", is her giving herself a pass for having sex with someone else, because in cheater speak you thinking it over and not slamming the door on the idea in no uncertain words, will be falsely viewed by her as you approving it. She knows that you did not approve of the idea, but she can now claim that she misunderstood and thought that you did. You need to email her right now and tell her very clearly that you do not now and never will approve of an open marriage and that if she wishes to have sex outside of the marriage, she needs to be ready to discuss divorce with you first. 

Immediately after sending her the email, print it out and discuss it with her face to face. Ask her who she had in mind when she suggested the open marriage, and then ask her to explain the state of their current relationship.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I would strongly advocate for pursuing monogamous solutions. Try reading "What Women Want" by Daniel Bergner. It could give you insight and possibly help to improve your situation. There is an example of a marriage that was similar to yours and they decided to "open" it up. The man was pathetic.

Your situation is reversible and doesn't have to be considered normal.

Over 23 years here and my wife is demanding sex tonight because I have been sick for a week. She actively tries to seduce me about six out of seven days. I am still very attracted to her as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. The red flag of infidelity might have just been waived in your face.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GoodFunLife (Apr 24, 2015)

So consensus seems to be that open marriage is highly complex, more often than not a bad idea, that she is most likely trying to use this idea as a wedge to cheat (if she hasn't already started) and maybe on the brighter side she is just testing my loyalty. All of these are consistent with whati've been thinking which is very helpful - thank you. My sense is that she hasn't started anything yet but is looking for an escape valve and this is a low guilt way of creating one. Hope I'm wrong bc despite all these negative thoughts I still want this to work out. And yes I am firmly on the record letting her know I'm not interested in her elegant alternative.


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> P.S. The red flag of infidelity might have just been waived in your face.


Yup. Time to start snooping. VARs in all the usual spots, keyloggers, forward all her iMessage texts to your iCloud account, GPS tracker on her car, etc.

Also, time to start funneling funds to an offshore account and quietly divest yourself of marital assets into cash which you can stash in a secret spot only you have access to and know about, and is legally untraceable. You may want to develop a "gambling addiction" which requires you to take large sums of cash with you to the casino every week. You can never have too much ready cash on hand, just ask ****** Bulger.

A decline sex interest from one partner, in absence of a medical reason, means she's emotionally detaching (since sex=emotional bonding) from you and attaching to another man.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

OP, it comes down to your attitude about this and how much you trust each other. Obviously, this is not a path that works for many, but it can and does work - for some. Personally, we don't place a high value on monogamy or marriage, but for those who do, we support their view - for them. Monogamy doesn't have a great track record either, as can easily be seen by the number of divorces, cheaters, and unhappy marriages. You and your partner make the kind of relationship you want - or not.

IF she is already cheating, that should be a deal breaker. It would be for us as well, despite our views on marriage and monogamy. Integrity and honesty are far more important, as without those, you have nothing and marriage would be a farce.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

i would test to see how much she had put into this...you should ask her what she had in mind, what are the parameters to this open marriage....if you find that she has laid out a detail idea to this open marriage concept then i am with the others on here, she has someone in the wings.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

How would you feel about another man having sex with your wife?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

GoodFunLife said:


> I am firmly on the record letting her know I'm not interested in her elegant alternative.


 You only think that you made it clear to her, but if she wants to cheat, she will reinvent history as to what you said such that it will be spun that it was not clear. Countless times we have seen similar things like this on this site where this has happened. That is why you must sent a clear and firm email to her confirming your past conversation that you did not then and never will agree to an open marriage, and that if she is interested in having sex with anyone else she needs to tell you so that you can file for divorce. You need to be that clear and it needs to be in writing.


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## Vorlon (Sep 13, 2012)

OP I think by your posts you know the score here. Open marriages only work when the marriage is very healthy to start. Both people are exactly on the same page and they both want it. Which is clearly not your situation. 

Most advice on this subject is that it will eventually end the marriage. The worst time to try it is when there are issues in the marriage. Your marriage obviously has issues that are ripe for divorce and unhappiness. 

I heard this once, "Have an affair to spice up the marriage! Have an affair with you spouse". 

Put the time and energy into rediscovering each other. Put the kids second to the marriage. Sneak away for the weekend or a crazy night out. Go skinny dipping. Send sexy notes to each other. Go to MC or a sex therapist. The best gift you can give your kids is a happy, healthy marriage as an example to emulate. 

If the marriage is not salvageable then end it now before all the really ugly pain starts. Personally... I have been married for nearly 30 years and love my wife dearly. But if she wanted to be with another man or woman I would suck it up and give her the freedom to do so...after the divorce. Because I deserve the best not leftovers. 

Good Luck


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## GoodFunLife (Apr 24, 2015)

Vorlon I'm completely with you. Trick is getting the spouse to want to have an affair with you! Great ideas.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

GoodFunLife said:


> Vorlon I'm completely with you. Trick is getting the spouse to want to have an affair with you! Great ideas.


 I am concerned that this is far more serious than you think. A spouse telling you that it is OK with them if you have sex with someone else, is a spouse telling you that they are already having or are are looking to have sex with someone else, but do not want to feel guilty about it. It is also a clear statement that they no longer respect the marital vows that they made to you concerning fidelity. At this point, even if you did not agree to have an open marriage, if you do end up catching her cheating, she will be able to look you in the eye and tell you that she has already made it clear to you that she does not consider having sex with others to be a bad thing, and that you are making too big a deal out of it since it was just her taking "some of the pressure off" because she "felt the need". She will even justify lying to you about it by saying that she does not agree with your close minded values on this, and that she was forced to lie to you about this because you were trying to control her by forcing your values on her. I am not saying that I know for sure that this is happening or will happen, but I am saying that this is how she has positioned things, and is how this all too often plays out.


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## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

If you give some thought to the fact that she brought it up at all you must accept that your marital relationship is already forever changed.

Just sayin',

Seasalt


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

seasalt said:


> If you give some thought to the fact that she brought it up at all you must accept that your marital relationship is already forever changed.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

GoodFunLife said:


> I'd love to hear from anyone who has experience with an open marriage. Situation as follows - solid 15+ year marriage with kids, financially stable, no infidelity or major relationship issues or complaints but her attraction has been steadily fading over the past year. Might just be going through a phase but she's sending me vibes that she's less interested than ever in being intimate or sexual - understandable after long time together and lucky I suppose to have taken this long for this moment to arise.
> 
> We still get along well outside the bedroom and have a very good life together. I'm very involved with my kids and don't want to let sex problems break apart a great family dynamic. But at same time I'm still very into her and not wild about the prospects of prolonged downward spiral in the sex & intimacy department. I worry that our connection will eventually deteriorate to nothing more than good friends living under the same roof raising kids together which is not at all what fuels me.
> 
> Much to my surprise she has recently suggested the possibility of opening things up to take some of the pressure off if one of us felt the need. We're pretty progressive but I never imagined she was thinking about something like this for us. My antenna is up - for years she would have cut my balls off at the hint of me having an affair and now she's giving me a pass to go roam. I know many guys who would kill for this freedom and maybe someday I'll get there but right now my first choice would be to do the work to get the love and passion flowing again. Am I crazy to think this way? I'm also not naive and recognize that she wouldn't be suggesting this just to get me off her back - as good a woman as she is there's gotta be something in it for her too ...


Simply say "no" and you are not interested. You are more interested why she would make a suggestion like this. For me, the concern is what is driving her to this. In short, a remedy for a situation that apparently only your W understands.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I don't think that is necessarily true. She may not really have thought it through carefully. Just decided to talk about something that seemed like fun, but was best left as a fantasy.





seasalt said:


> If you give some thought to the fact that she brought it up at all you must accept that your marital relationship is already forever changed.
> 
> Just sayin',
> 
> Seasalt


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

I'm with Conan on this one. If you want monogamy, try all the monogamous solutions first. My first thought: get in shape if you aren't already. Maybe introduce some porn with hot guys. Women are more visual than folks seem to think.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

GoodFunLife said:


> *My antenna is up - for years she would have cut my balls off at the hint of me having an affair and now she's giving me a pass to go roam*


The same thing ocurred with my XWW. She was a very jealous woman. I couldn't have a non-sexual, work oriented conversation with another woman without later getting accused of me wanting to have sex with. Her insecurity should have been seen by me as a huge red flag. Such a person is more than likely to seek emotional and/or sexual validation through a third party.

I also noticed that for a very vanilla sex woman, her sexual predilections started to change significantly, as well as her sexual drive increased greatly. At first I wa in Heaven but my gut instinct started to scream at me that something was wrong. Sure enough, one day she accidentally sent me a strange text stating "It was fun, *I couldn't stop shaking*, when can we do it again?" which led me to some snooping which eventually yielded a wealth of information on her extra-marital sexual activities.

I truly hope that your situation is not a repeat of mine, but you'd be foolish not to start investigating her to find if there is something more than a strange conversation with you.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Just my opinion.

were not in kanas any more and there's no rainbows and unicorns at the end of this .

she's cheating already! 

If your not into an open marriage then start voicing your opinion and start snooping . but be careful and prepared for what you might find. 

start protecting your assets.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GoodFunLife (Apr 24, 2015)

Thanks again to all who have posted - I appreciate your constructive feedback. Yes I am very curious to know why she suggested the possibility of open marriage and where her head really is on the topic - I am taking a measured approach, trying not to overreact but at some point sooner than later I will get to the bottom of it. In the meantime, it's all idle speculation as to whether she really is up to something and trying to do it in as low guilt a way as possible or if she's just in a funk, not really into sex and intimacy at the moment and testing me on whether I'm truly committed or just interested in more sex regardless of whether it's with her or someone else.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

GoodFunLife said:


> Thanks again to all who have posted - I appreciate your constructive feedback. Yes I am very curious to know why she suggested the possibility of open marriage and where her head really is on the topic - I am taking a measured approach, trying not to overreact but at some point sooner than later I will get to the bottom of it. In the meantime, it's all idle speculation as to whether she really is up to something and trying to do it in as low guilt a way as possible or if she's just in a funk, not really into sex and intimacy at the moment and testing me on whether I'm truly committed or just interested in more sex regardless of whether it's with her or someone else.


There are a few possibilities, and you'd be a fool to dismiss of them outright.

Keep your eyes open...


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Most of these situations backfire for the man.
How easy would it be for you to go out today and get laid?
How easy would it be for your wife to go out today and get laid?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

GoodFunLife said:


> I'd love to hear from anyone who has experience with an open marriage. Situation as follows - solid 15+ year marriage with kids, financially stable, no infidelity or major relationship issues or complaints but her attraction has been steadily fading over the past year. Might just be going through a phase but she's sending me vibes that she's less interested than ever in being intimate or sexual - understandable after long time together and lucky I suppose to have taken this long for this moment to arise.
> 
> We still get along well outside the bedroom and have a very good life together. I'm very involved with my kids and don't want to let sex problems break apart a great family dynamic. But at same time I'm still very into her and not wild about the prospects of prolonged downward spiral in the sex & intimacy department. I worry that our connection will eventually deteriorate to nothing more than good friends living under the same roof raising kids together which is not at all what fuels me.
> 
> Much to my surprise she has recently suggested the possibility of opening things up to take some of the pressure off if one of us felt the need. We're pretty progressive but I never imagined she was thinking about something like this for us. My antenna is up - for years she would have cut my balls off at the hint of me having an affair and now she's giving me a pass to go roam. I know many guys who would kill for this freedom and maybe someday I'll get there but right now my first choice would be to do the work to get the love and passion flowing again. Am I crazy to think this way? *I'm also not naive and recognize that she wouldn't be suggesting this just to get me off her back - as good a woman as she is there's gotta be something in it for her too* ...



in what way is she a "good" woman? a good lay? good looking? you're not saying she's a good person are you? her recent conversation with you suggests just the opposite.

sounds like she's playing you, in some way, for reasons not clear - though some of the guesses other posters have are plausible ones. I think it wouldn't hurt to consult a lawyer for an assessment of how divorcing her would play out. best case scenario for you, worst case (in terms of finances, custody etc.)

here's a thought that throws me into the non-traditional thinking on marriage....as starnge as that sounds for me to admit. 
I think it wouldn't hurt to go down the path she has suggested, partway. get on a dating site; maybe start some online dialogue with other women. whatever game she's playing, she is giving you good reason to doubt her love or devotion to you. she's basically telling you she doesn't want to treat you like a husband anymore. 
When a spouse does that, IMO, the other should feel no need to hesitate much in their search for a better partner. it wouldn't hurt if she knew you were taking these actions either.
the practical problem of course is that a lot of quality people would refuse any involvement with a married person. how to handle that conundrum is tough - no good answer there.


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## GoodFunLife (Apr 24, 2015)

She is a very good woman in a number of ways - it's a long list. I have a high bar and she continues to clear it. I know that long term marriages go through ups and downs and that the way two people relate sexually over the long haul is one of the hardest things to get right. Somewhere along the way I stopped giving her the kind of love (romantically and sexually) that kept her attraction strong. I let it become all about getting as much sex from her as I could without regard for her needs. Note to younger guys in earlier stages of their relationships do yourself a favor and ask yourself if this is happening to you and if so commit to doing something about it. I know a number of couples who have gone through something similar and it ended ugly and the only reason it hasn't happened to us is that we have a really strong relationship outside the bedroom. For years she chose to not call me out on my **** and accepted a subpar love life as a sacrifice she was willing to make and she is now awakening to the reality that she has unmet physical needs and at the moment does not believe that I'm capable of meeting them. Hard to swallow but I don't think it's much more complicated than that. So the alternatives she's proposing are her attempt to have her cake and eat it too - have me as a best friend and co-parent and go find some strange to satisfy her. She's (wrongly) assuming that her offering the same platter to me would be something I'd jump at and I think she has noticed with interest and surprise that I am sticking to my guns and not taking the bait. My antenna is up as you all have suggested it should be but so far not finding any strong evidence that she has already jumped into something else.


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## youkiddingme (Jul 30, 2012)

Man, I want to highlight what many people have told you already! I do not think you are listening to some very important advice. You need to be secretly investigating. You need to be monitoring emails, phone records, etc.. This is a radical suggestion that she has made and it is quite possible that she already is involved with someone.

Investigate without her knowing it.

Investigate without her knowing it. 

I do not believe you have heard the MANY people that have been advising you to do this.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

GoodFunLife said:


> She is a very good woman in a number of ways - it's a long list. I have a high bar and she continues to clear it. I know that long term marriages go through ups and downs and that the way two people relate sexually over the long haul is one of the hardest things to get right. Somewhere along the way I stopped giving her the kind of love (romantically and sexually) that kept her attraction strong. I let it become all about getting as much sex from her as I could without regard for her needs. Note to younger guys in earlier stages of their relationships do yourself a favor and ask yourself if this is happening to you and if so commit to doing something about it. I know a number of couples who have gone through something similar and it ended ugly and the only reason it hasn't happened to us is that we have a really strong relationship outside the bedroom. * For years she chose to not call me out on my **** and accepted a subpar love life as a sacrifice she was willing to make and she is now awakening to the reality that she has unmet physical needs and at the moment does not believe that I'm capable of meeting them. *Hard to swallow but I don't think it's much more complicated than that. *So the alternatives she's proposing are her attempt to have her cake and eat it too - have me as a best friend and co-parent and go find some strange to satisfy her. * She's (wrongly) assuming that her offering the same platter to me would be something I'd jump at and I think she has noticed with interest and surprise that I am sticking to my guns and not taking the bait. My antenna is up as you all have suggested it should be but so far not finding any strong evidence that she has already jumped into something else.


on the first bolded, what are you referring to?? you had no concern for her having orgasms? or what??

2nd bolded - somehow "good woman" still not resonating with me as you put frth dscriptions like this. you've put her on a pedastal and even though she's saying (per your take) that she'd like to get it on with other guys - there she remains. my feeling is she needs to come crashing down from there, in your mind especially. 

The things yoiu are saying here - I don't think you really believe them, despite your best efforts.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

GoodFunLife said:


> She is a very good woman in a number of ways - it's a long list. I have a high bar and she continues to clear it. I know that long term marriages go through ups and downs and that the way two people relate sexually over the long haul is one of the hardest things to get right. Somewhere along the way I stopped giving her the kind of love (romantically and sexually) that kept her attraction strong. I let it become all about getting as much sex from her as I could without regard for her needs. Note to younger guys in earlier stages of their relationships do yourself a favor and ask yourself if this is happening to you and if so commit to doing something about it. I know a number of couples who have gone through something similar and it ended ugly and the only reason it hasn't happened to us is that we have a really strong relationship outside the bedroom. For years she chose to not call me out on my **** and accepted a subpar love life as a sacrifice she was willing to make and she is now awakening to the reality that she has unmet physical needs and at the moment does not believe that I'm capable of meeting them. Hard to swallow but I don't think it's much more complicated than that. So the alternatives she's proposing are her attempt to have her cake and eat it too - have me as a best friend and co-parent and go find some strange to satisfy her. She's (wrongly) assuming that her offering the same platter to me would be something I'd jump at and I think she has noticed with interest and surprise that I am sticking to my guns and not taking the bait. My antenna is up as you all have suggested it should be but so far not finding any strong evidence that she has already jumped into something else.


She does not think you can meet her needs or she is not allowing you to try and meet these needs?


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Hicks said:


> Most of these situations backfire for the man.
> How easy would it be for you to go out today and get laid?
> How easy would it be for your wife to go out today and get laid?


:iagree:

There are always going to be more men seeking ONS and NSA sex than women. Furthermore, more men are willing to have sex with a married woman than women willing to have sex with a married man. So if a man wants to improve his chances of getting laid, he'd best be single.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Friend the deck is stacked against you when it comes to a open marriage. 

Put her in a room full of guys and you in a room full of women. Have her ask the guys if they want to go somewhere for sex and you ask the same to the ladies and see who leaves with the most prospects. Every guy will be following her outside unzipping and you'll walk out with nothing but a few insults and if you do get lucky you still lose because I got a feeling the one you get......................no one else wants. 

Keep an eye on her and if you get a gut feeling then trust it.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

GoodFunLife said:


> So consensus seems to be that open marriage is highly complex, more often than not a bad idea, that she is most likely trying to use this idea as a wedge to cheat (if she hasn't already started) and maybe on the brighter side she is just testing my loyalty. All of these are consistent with whati've been thinking which is very helpful - thank you. My sense is that she hasn't started anything yet but is looking for an escape valve and this is a low guilt way of creating one. Hope I'm wrong bc despite all these negative thoughts I still want this to work out. And yes I am firmly on the record letting her know I'm not interested in her elegant alternative.


GoodFunLife,

Your situation sounds almost *EXACTLY* like mine about 9 years ago. 15 years, 2 kids, SAHM, sex life down the tubes, yada, yada, then she brings up the idea about opening it up, emphasizes what's in it for me, etc.

I was beaten down, gas lit and manipulated (she said it would it 'save our marriage'). When it came to playing with others, she insisted on free reign to get boffed to high heaven while micro-managing me to the point where I didn't do anything but some mild making out.

To make a long story short: She had been cheating on me, and wanted to take it to a new level, thus the open it up idea. I wouldn't find out much of that until after the divorce. Today: I don't get to see my kids enough, she's re-written history and tried her best to turn them against me. She hasn't worked a day in her life, while I've sent her hundreds of thousands of dollars. If I could get away with it, (scricccccccck noise) - I hate her that much.

I suspect you're on the same path.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Investigate. There is no moral reason against it, as she has said things to reasonably make one suspect she is already cheating or has decided to do so. Thus your marriage is threatened and you have the right to discover the truth. Only by knowing the truth do you have a chance at rescuing your marriage.

No matter what, never ever ever reveal your sources. If you discover something, STFU. Don't say anything until you come here first. No matter what, STFU. Understood?

Confronting too soon is a frequent and terrible mistake. Even if all you discover is she is thinking about cheating, don't confront until you've mulled it over and discussed it with good advisors. This group will not steer you wrong.

I'm hoping she is only wanting to spice things up for you two, rather than wanting to cake eat and cheat. Best to find out sooner rather than later.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

DO NOT say anything to indicate you are suspicious, which you ABSOLUTELY should be.

Do the standard evidence gathering stuff. I think it is EXTREMELY probable that she either is already cheating or already knows who she wants to have sex with if she thinks you will go along with it, however reluctantly.

You are in very dangerous territory, and I say that while recognizing that polyamory can work for some people. Women in particular tend to switch allegiance from one man to another rather than sharing themselves between two men, and once that happens it is almost impossible to get them to switch back. Men seem to be able to deal with multiple partners better, but of course that is risky too for other reasons.


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## icemans.insights (May 5, 2015)

No doubt. This is behavior that isn't really her. When someone changes their values to that degree, something's up. I would agree that she's probably found attraction elsewhere and it may only be emotional at this point but she'd like to take it to the next level. 

If it's a test to see how you'll react, that's on her for playing stupid games. Tell her you'll take the hall pass and make the most of it and see how she reacts.


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## Myfault123 (Dec 26, 2014)

GoodFunLife, I am a female whose H talked about his fantasy of seeing me with another Man. We tried it a few times, I moved abroad, H wanted me to sleep with a co-worker, tell him about it, pics etc. I agreed. I too thought our M would be able to withstand this.

We are now in the middle of a D as I slept with OM more times than H wanted me to. He now tells me I have betrayed him with my lies and A with this Man. I would not of slept with OM in the first place if it was not for me trying to please H and H agreeing. H has been in an EA with OW, prior to his suggestion. I am not saying that is the reason for it, just to let you know. 

If you value your M, don't do it. It is breaking my heart knowing a simple no, may of prevented the situation I am in now.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP

any update? look nothing against you.....but you say you have a great relationship with your wife outside the bedroom. so then why cant you just talk to her and ask her why she suggested an open marriage? I think you could have done better than someone like her. that might be the key to a better marriage for you.....find someone else to have it with. sounds like youre willing to put up with a lot of her sh*t. don't be


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

I cant think of anything worse than an open marriage. I would be totally devastated if my husband was to tell me this is the sort of relationship he wanted, and to be honest i cant think of anything worse.

I know there are some people out there that are into the open relationship thing, but it would never be something i would ever want and do.

You said that in the past she would have wanted to cut your balls off if you was to go near another women and here she is telling you this is something she has been thinking about.

I agree with the pp i believe she has her eyes on someone and that is why she has give you the green light too. I smell something fishy.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I guess he hasn't found out who the other man is yet. It seems odd his wife drops a nuclear bomb shell like this on his marriage and he has no idea it was dropped.

He's working on the principle of what you don't know won't hurt you.

The good news is she has an easier time of getting laid but he will have an easier time finding women that want a long term relationship.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Obvious troll is obvious.

ETA: Troll post appears to have been removed. Thanks mods!


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

GoodFunLife said:


> For years she chose to not call me out on my **** and accepted a subpar love life as a sacrifice she was willing to make and she is now awakening to the reality that she has unmet physical needs and at the moment does not believe that I'm capable of meeting them. Hard to swallow but I don't think it's much more complicated than that.


Why can't you meet her needs? Are you horrible in bed? Then read up on some sex techniques or toys... Are you out of shape? Then hit the gym hard and stop letting yourself go... Are you a d0uchebag to her? Then knock it off... 

Maybe you should ask yourself, "WHY is the only solution for my wife to ride another man's hog?" Do you enjoy being an emasculated cuckold? I really don't get your ultra beta attitude.

For your wife to suggest that, at best she already has a guy she's been having an EA with and wants your permission to go PA. At worst, she's already banging the dude and is just tired of hiding it. 

I get the feeling your wife is a much higher sex rank than you. That's why you are even entertaining this ridiculous proposition. Your wife has her bags packed and is ready to check out of this relationship. She's just waiting for you to pay the bill.


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## GoodFunLife (Apr 24, 2015)

Update - things are actually going quite well. We decided to take sex off the table for a couple months to figure out what we want our relationship to be without her feeling the pressure that she's been feeling to please me. In response to several questions posted, we are of very equal rank in terms of physical attractiveness and fitness level so that is not what's behind this. I am man enough to admit that I have not been a great lover to her, too selfish and needy for too many years without paying enough attention to her pleasure. Yes that means she does not orgasm regularly which is likely a big part of all this. I am committed to not having any more lame one-sided sex and only want to resume being sexual with her when I know she is ready to be responsive to me. It's now been over a month since we've had sex but I have actually felt energized by the fresh connection we are forming and have not felt the least bit desperate or needy. No doubt she has noticed the difference in me and it is having a positive effect on our relationship even though it has not resulted in anything sexual yet. And we've actually had a couple good conversations about the pitfalls of divorce especially the impact on kids and complexities of open marriage so I think we are on the right track.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP

I know you have kids. does your wife a job? what kind of work does she do?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

GoodFunLife said:


> Update - things are actually going quite well. We decided to take sex off the table for a couple months to figure out what we want our relationship to be without her feeling the pressure that she's been feeling to please me. In response to several questions posted, we are of very equal rank in terms of physical attractiveness and fitness level so that is not what's behind this. I am man enough to admit that I have not been a great lover to her, too selfish and needy for too many years without paying enough attention to her pleasure. Yes that means she does not orgasm regularly which is likely a big part of all this. I am committed to not having any more lame one-sided sex and only want to resume being sexual with her when I know she is ready to be responsive to me. It's now been over a month since we've had sex but I have actually felt energized by the fresh connection we are forming and have not felt the least bit desperate or needy. No doubt she has noticed the difference in me and it is having a positive effect on our relationship even though it has not resulted in anything sexual yet. And we've actually had a couple good conversations about the pitfalls of divorce especially the impact on kids and complexities of open marriage so I think we are on the right track.


Great to hear. If your W has noticed the changes and likes what she see then the reconnection will begin. Reconnecting and keeping that connection is the key. Once the reconnection is at it's fullest will the dynamics of sex change for the better. You and your W will feel that old dating feeling. It is a game changer for the marriage and renews that spark to please one another. Introducing open marriage is the worst possible answer next to D. Glad you two picked the better route of the three.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Interesting. In reconnecting with her, are you becoming more aware of her relationship needs? Have you read His Needs, Her Needs? This book has an inventory of what each of your needs are, so you have a better understanding of each other and are able to meet each other's needs more effectively. It sounds like this would be helpful in your marriage.

Edited to add:
If she is seriously feeling used and not feeling like she is able to make you happy sexually, rather than looking for another man, her feelings of value are very low and she needs to be built up as a wife. Any woman who would suggest her husband find someone else to satisfy him does not feel valued or loved. The only thing that will change that is if you truly value and love her and show her that you do.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

It's not a pass to go roam, she's only suggesting it because she's already doing it. Now you have to make the decision if whether or not you are willing to put up without a committed relationship with her.


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## GoodFunLife (Apr 24, 2015)

I have heard that's a great book but have not read it yet. I am solely focused on meeting her non-sexual needs and injecting some fresh energy into the relationship. Seems to be working so far and have plenty of patience to see if it will ultimately lead to more feelings of attraction and responsiveness. This is all about making her feel special and loved - without this there is no chance for good sex that we both enjoy equally.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

GoodFunLife said:


> I have heard that's a great book but have not read it yet. I am solely focused on meeting her non-sexual needs and injecting some fresh energy into the relationship. Seems to be working so far and have plenty of patience to see if it will ultimately lead to more feelings of attraction and responsiveness. This is all about making her feel special and loved - without this there is no chance for good sex that we both enjoy equally.


Probably most people reading this thread will think that your wife is lying to you, but if you do not have a gut feeling that she is cheating and there are no other red flags, you are probably right that she is being honest. Based on that, you are headed in the right direction. Please get the book and have her do the inventory so you can hone in on what makes her tick and how to best meet her needs.


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