# Countdown to dating sex. How much time do you need?



## Deejo

Discussion and some questions from @LisaDiane and @Livvie in another thread prompted the creation of this one.

A post I made in the other thread indicated that as an older (yet young at heart) dude, once again thrust into the dating market, I am relatively flexible about gauging someone's interest in, desire for, or readiness to be intimate.

I have indeed had sex on a first date. And in one case was in a dating relationship for just about 3 months, with no intimacy. I invited her to go away for a weekend. She enthusiastically said yes. On said weekend, I made the move, and she indicated she wasn't comfortable. Kissed her on the forehead, and told her that's fine. Next weekend she asked me if I wanted to get together and I told her I had plans (not a game, I did). She then expeditiously dumped me over text. I simply responded with, "I understand."

The comment I made in the other thread that drew questions was, "I have no interest in 36 to 56 year old woman that is looking to protect her virginity for a second time." Meaning that they are consciously withholding from their partner to meet some unspoken expectation, surrounding getting busy. I've seen it, I've discussed it, I've read about ... even here on the boards. I'm sure everyone that has been here for a while can recall reading a post referring to a woman who has been very liberal with her sexuality, right up until she meets a man that she deems of value, and suddenly the waiting game is on. Generally, these are younger couples. And I certainly felt like there was a bit of that mentality even in the thread we were all participating in.

I am of the belief, and although some will no doubt claim counter, that the overwhelming majority of women, I daresay all, know by the end of the first date, whether or not they want to sleep with that man.

The when, is the other matter.

I'm dating a woman now, who already in the span of 3 dates, knows more about me, and I her, than the woman I indicated above did in 3 months.

So, what is your criteria and timeframe surrounding getting busy? And why does it seem to touch a nerve if you have a timeframe, that a man may have one too?


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## Numb26

I have always followed the "3 date" rule. Usually by the third date you know if there is sexual fireworks going on.


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## thunderchad

I also did the 3 date rule. If it doesn't happen by then it's probably not happening.


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## leftfield

I wonder if intovert vs extrovert explains more about how people view this topic than anything else.


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## Deejo

Well yeah guys ... I'm very familiar with the 3 date rule. But when you are talking about 2 middle aged people with young adult children at home, sex and logistics has to come into the equation. Are you saying you're dumping a woman that you KNOW wants to have sex with you and it isn't in the first 3 dates? You friggin' Neanderthals ...

Let the ladies answer for cripe sakes. I pretty much know where every guy stands. We are ready for sex ASAP. But if you're are telling me your dumping a woman that doesn't meet the 3 date criteria, I want to know how old you are, and how much dating you do. Because I forget stuff these days ...


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## happyhusband0005

I think it is probably best to have sex before the first date just to be sure you're not wasting your time.


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## Numb26

Deejo said:


> Well yeah guys ... I'm very familiar with the 3 date rule. But when you are talking about 2 middle aged people with young adult children at home, sex and logistics has to come into the equation. Are you saying you're dumping a woman that you KNOW wants to have sex with you and it isn't in the first 3 dates? You friggin' Neanderthals ...
> 
> Let the ladies answer for cripe sakes. I pretty much know where every guy stands. We are ready for sex ASAP. But if you're are telling me your dumping a woman that doesn't meet the 3 date criteria, I want to know how old you are, and how much dating you do. Because I forget stuff these days ...


If you know that both people WANT to have sex but the logistics don't allow it till after the third date that is different. I am not THAT much of Neanderthal


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## Deejo

leftfield said:


> I wonder if intovert vs extrovert explains more about how people view this topic than anything else.


I am certainly not going to argue that lots of factors play in, and that particularly younger women that want to have a family, likely have a lot more at risk. As for shy vs. outgoing, I'm not sure? I can understand someone who is shy and feels emotionally vulnerable may need a much longer/wider comfort zone and an established feeling of attachment. That actually sums up that woman I dated in my opening post.

But ... I've been on plenty of those '3 date rule criteria' dates, where the chemistry with someone is just remarkable. Both with introverts and extroverts. And it happens, and everyone is good with it. I don't think I've ever been intimate with a woman who regretted it after the fact. Once you are both bathing in that chemical soup of Dopamine, norepinephrine, and oxytocin, nobody is sweating the details or timeframe.


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## Chaotic

I agree with @leftfield that this may have a lot to do with personality. If anyone is familiar with the whole Meyers-Briggs personality thing.... Well, I have two female friends who are SP types who think first date sex or ONSs are great if the man is hot and you've got protection. I cannot wrap my head around the idea of sex the first day I meet someone (I'm NF, for those who know what that means). I need to feel like there's a personality/psychological connection first, and that usually takes me several dates at least. My current bf and I didn't have sex until almost the 3 month mark for various reasons but when it happened it was worth the wait 😉


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## LATERILUS79

Gonna follow this one. Sounds interesting. I’m so far off being in this situation or ever having been in this situation. I’ve only slept with one woman ever and I’m currently married to her.

while I agree with deejo that men are ready for sex at all times (at least physically), I’m not so sure I was mentally prepared for it. I was saving myself for someone I truly loved. It was actually my wife that pushed us to have sex at the 4 week mark of dating. I wanted to wait a little bit longer but…… she had her ways of convincing me.

God forbid something ever happening that puts me on the dating market again, I wouldn’t know what the hell to do with myself.


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## ccpowerslave

At this point in my life if I found myself single and as a man of virtue I’d bang after (maybe even during?) the first date after taking appropriate precautions.


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## Diana7

Numb26 said:


> I have always followed the "3 date" rule. Usually by the third date you know if there is sexual fireworks going on.


I knew there was chemistry almost straight away. Doesn't mean we had sex though.

If I wasn't a Christian I would probably have sex when I felt we had got to know each other quite well and had strong feelings for each other and were being faithful. Probably not for at least 2 or 3 months though. Either way it wouldn't be till I was pretty sure it was going to last long term.


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## Diana7

LATERILUS79 said:


> Gonna follow this one. Sounds interesting. I’m so far off being in this situation or ever having been in this situation. I’ve only slept with one woman ever and I’m currently married to her.
> 
> while I agree with deejo that men are ready for sex at all times (at least physically), I’m not so sure I was mentally prepared for it. I was saving myself for someone I truly loved. It was actually my wife that pushed us to have sex at the 4 week mark of dating. I wanted to wait a little bit longer but…… she had her ways of convincing me.
> 
> God forbid something ever happening that puts me on the dating market again, I wouldn’t know what the hell to do with myself.


Ahh lovely story🥰

As for if you ever dated again, you may have to stick to your boundaries and values even if the number of women who felt the same was greatly reduced.

My choice was very small.


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## Affaircare

I’m a lady “of a certain age” and I’m INFJ, responsive, Demi-sexual and a Taurus… so I know what I want and speak my mind. I think at first my Beloved @Emerging Buddhist was surprised I was so blunt, but I don’t play the “guess what I’m thinking” game lol! 

I knew as I got to know him better that I found him very attractive, and being who I am, he knew. So to me I didn’t/don’t think of it as a timeframe (by the 3rd date) so much as expressing where I’m at and what I want… see if it’s mutual…work out logistics and any kinks life throws at ya from there.

I do suspect there would be a limit to some degree—like if it was excuse after excuse, delay after delay. But if it’s mutual, both are working on the logistics, and there’s continued progress—I’m willing to be patient. 

No that’s not Taurus stubbornness… it’s patience! Lol 😛


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## Benbutton

I don't have a time line as I find it relatively arbitrary and unnecessary. I haven't had an issue of feeling that I was left waiting or wondering when it was going to happen, probably because the feelings were reciprocated equally on both sides. I guess everyone is different and that is what has worked for me in the past. While I don't agree with timeliness I do have to admit 3 months sounds way excessive.


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## Cletus

I will speak only for the one woman for whom I am allowed.

For my wife, it was 18 months. That's how long it took from us to start dating until the wedding. 

For my part, I would never do that again and am known round here for advocating strongly against it.


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## thunderchad

That's why you always plan out dates so sex can happen.


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## Hiner112

My experience (as a guy):

At 20 I was in my first serious relationship for about a month (probably 5 or so dates) when she took off her pants for the first time. All we did was that I went down on her. It was probably a few weeks more before she was really interested in taking my pants off.

At 43 I was in my second relationship. We matched on a dating site and chatted daily for a couple months before we were able to meet in person. We hugged at the end of the first date. On the second date we ordered out and ate at a park within about a mile of her house. It started to get dark after we finished eating so she asked if I wanted to come see her where she lived and her dogs and whatnot. So I went to her house and we talked for a bit and well, one thing led to another (and another).

I've talked a bit about this to my kids when "Baby It's Cold Outside" is on the radio. I basically told them that those mating rituals are for those deciding if they want to have kids with someone and I would expect someone as old as Dolly Parton and Rod Stewart would just straight up say whether they were staying the night and what they were going to do and not play the game of being "convinced" or being coy. We're old enough to be confident in our decisions and there's likely no extraneous concerns like creating offspring or whatever. I think stuff like the 3 date rule are there to protect those that might make lifelong decisions based on a short term feeling which isn't really an issue for those of us past child bearing age and knowledgeable about STIs.


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## Al_Bundy

thunderchad said:


> That's why you always plan out dates so sex can happen.


Right, I don't understand the logistics thing. Do they have to check each other out of the old folks home and be back when the street lights come on?

It's like the business saying about if you give yourself 3 weeks for a project then it will take you 3 weeks, if you give yourself 3 days then you'll get it done in 3 days. If you accept being strung along for months then that's what you'll get.


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## Diana7

Cletus said:


> I will speak only for the one woman for whom I am allowed.
> 
> For my wife, it was 18 months. That's how long it took from us to start dating until the wedding.
> 
> For my part, I would never do that again and am known round here for advocating strongly against it.


It was 9 months for us. Never regretted waiting for a second.
We were both of the same mindset though so knew it wasn't going to happen till after the wedding.


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## thunderchad

Deejo said:


> I am of the belief, and although some will no doubt claim counter, that the overwhelming majority of women, I daresay all, know by the end of the first date, whether or not they want to sleep with that man.


I've been told its more like 5 minutes.


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## Livvie

I'm not interested in having sex with men I don't know well and I'm interested in sex with men who I will most likely be in a relationship with. So however that shakes out 

I'm also not interested in getting an STD so I'll probably request testing and I'm happy to do the same. 

The upside is I don't have sexual hang ups, I'm HD, and I'm a "quality woman" as the saying around here goes. 

My partner count fits on one hand.


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## thunderchad

Livvie said:


> My partner count fits on one hand.


This is really good. There are studies that show body count less than 5 as being ideal partners, especially the female.


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## Deejo

Livvie said:


> I'm not interested in having sex with men I don't know well and I'm interested in sex with men who I will most likely be in a relationship with. So however that shakes out
> 
> I'm also not interested in getting an STD so I'll probably request testing and I'm happy to do the same.
> 
> The upside is I don't have sexual hang ups, I'm HD, and I'm a "quality woman" as the saying around here goes.
> 
> My partner count fits on one hand.


Respectfully, you're not answering the question. What qualifies as 'knowing someone well?'

What's the difference if you have sex with a dude you vibe within the second week of meeting, versus the guy you wait 30 or more days for, given that you may date the first guy for 2 years and the second guy for only six months?

It's just challenging for me to wrap my head around. I understand that for most women there is going to need to be a level of comfort, and a level of connection. What I don't understand are the thought processes that somehow that equates to a timeline.


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## thunderchad

Well also women don't want to seem like sluts or seem easy, especially women with a more conservative view of sex and body count. My wife and I had sex pretty quickly but she admitted that she wouldn't have had sex sooner if I tried harder. She didn't want to seem easy.


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## Diana7

Deejo said:


> Well yeah guys ... I'm very familiar with the 3 date rule. But when you are talking about 2 middle aged people with young adult children at home, sex and logistics has to come into the equation. Are you saying you're dumping a woman that you KNOW wants to have sex with you and it isn't in the first 3 dates? You friggin' Neanderthals ...
> 
> Let the ladies answer for cripe sakes. I pretty much know where every guy stands. We are ready for sex ASAP. But if you're are telling me your dumping a woman that doesn't meet the 3 date criteria, I want to know how old you are, and how much dating you do. Because I forget stuff these days ...


If any guy I met had a 3 date rule I would be more than happy to say goodbye and good riddance.


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## Livvie

Deejo said:


> Respectfully, you're not answering the question. What qualifies as 'knowing someone well?'
> 
> What's the difference if you have sex with a dude you vibe within the second week of meeting, versus the guy you wait 30 or more days for, given that you may date the first guy for 2 years and the second guy for only six months?
> 
> It's just challenging for me to wrap my head around. I understand that for most women there is going to need to be a level of comfort, and a level of connection. What I don't understand are the thought processes that somehow that equates to a timeline.


I guess the connection. I've not had sex w a man that didn't end up being a LTR with so I guess it's a matter of, I know when I know.?


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## Deejo

@Livvie, also curious, is your concern about STD's based upon the fact that you have been subjected to one in the past?

I've never had an STD, and I wouldn't think about getting a panel done now, because I've had 1 partner for the last 7 years. My count extends a bit beyond one hand, but I certainly did get them in the past at the request of partners, and it's not like we were behaving like church mice waiting until we got results.


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## Deejo

Diana7 said:


> If any guy I met had a 3 date rule I would be more than happy to say goodbye and good riddance.


I can't and certainly don't speak for the youngsters, late teens, through early thirties. So the legend of the 3 date rule is well established, and I feel it is mostly that ... legend.

Most of my sexual relationships took place after I divorced in 2011. I was already in my mid-forties, and all of the women I dated were late 30's to 40's and also divorced. Most were definitely NOT looking immediately for husband number 2, and had been in sexually unfulfilling marriages (certainly another topic entirely). Suffice to say, if I had to put metrics on it, from meeting someone to being intimate was generally within a handful of dates (definitely not always 3) and almost always within a month of having regular contact and dating. And it was never a surprise or a secret. Nobody is being surprised or manipulated into sex by your mid-thirties. You have sex because you choose to have sex.


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## RandomDude

I vote for letting it happen naturally. No 3 date rule or anything, as long as there is consistent progress, patience is a virtue.


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## Red Sonja

@Deejo, you are correct in that most women know if they are sexually interested after the first date, sometimes before the first date and, sometimes before you know his name. That said, for me personally, I do not act on my sexual interest until I am certain that I will be safe (physically) with him in an intimate setting.

I am honest with men about the above fact and I don’t become butt-hurt if they dump me because of it. As for a time frame, I have slept with men in as short a time as two weeks. My life experience has taught me that one-night stands are a very risky business and so I’ve never had one, even as a young woman.

I have, of course, been wrong in my evaluation of “safe”. Let’s just say that in recent years there are too many would-be Dom’s in the dating pool who like to surprise you with what I consider “scary ****” once you are naked.


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## Rob_1

When I was younger and dating, it never cross my mind to wait for any particular amount of dates/time. It was all on a sensory/feeling feedback. I would instinctively know when to go for it (not that I was wrong in certain occasions). So, yes I did have sex with some women on the first date, but also anywhere between 1 to three weeks. I don't recall ever going any further in time than that for me to be intimate with the woman. So it all boils down to two people in a particular emotional moment and how strong that attraction plays into the situation for sex. I recall one particular young lady being extremely mortified the day after spending the night with me on our first date. She thought that I was going to catalog her as an easy ****, NOT AT ALL.


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## Deejo

Livvie said:


> I guess the connection. I've not had sex w a man that didn't end up being a LTR with so I guess it's a matter of, I know when I know.?


Still not an answer.

I'm smiling by the way, not bothered. And obviously you can tell me to pound sand anytime. But what you are engaging in right now, not unlike what the woman in the other thread was doing, is a bit of obfuscation, and mind judo. 

So is it a feeling, or a time frame? When did you have the feeling in any of your previous LTR's?


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## TXTrini

To answer your questions:
So, what is your criteria and timeframe surrounding getting busy? 
I don't have one, it depends on circumstances (attraction, interest, potential).

And why does it seem to touch a nerve if you have a timeframe, that a man may have one too?
I don't care, Timeline Timmies are incompatible and welcome to do their thing.

For context, I am 42, twice divorced. HD prefers steak-sex over McDonald's.


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## Mr. Nail

Affaircare said:


> and I’m INFJ, responsive, Demi-sexual and a Taurus


This got me thinking as I am extroverted and demi-sexual. I retook the test and scored a ENFP. As a Demi, the 3 date rule would never work, unless they were very spectacular dates, and unless there was a lot of emotionally bonding conversation between. Last time I broke that rule, I ended up married. So I guess there is something to be said for just knowing. Usually I know that there is a possibility of sexual attraction. That possibility does not mean I'm going to let them in, just that I'm willing to work on it.

If there is a next time, and I'm not inclined to that, I know a whole lot more about what I need now, and I won't pair up with someone who can't supply.


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## DownButNotOut

I'm surprised nobody has said "As long as it takes the viagra to kick in" yet.


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## Livvie

Deejo said:


> @Livvie, also curious, is your concern about STD's based upon the fact that you have been subjected to one in the past?
> 
> I've never had an STD, and I wouldn't think about getting a panel done now, because I've had 1 partner for the last 7 years. My count extends a bit beyond one hand, but I certainly did get them in the past at the request of partners, and it's not like we were behaving like church mice waiting until we got results.


Ha no, my concern about STDs is that I've got a low partner count and an infection free body, in my early 50s, and I'm not about to subject myself to a possible infection from a guy who might not have been as careful as me my whole life. F that. I'm not paying the price for someone else's sexual life choices. Test, or it's a no go.


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## Livvie

Deejo said:


> Still not an answer.
> 
> I'm smiling by the way, not bothered. And obviously you can tell me to pound sand anytime. But what you are engaging in right now, not unlike what the woman in the other thread was doing, is a bit of obfuscation, and mind judo.
> 
> So is it a feeling, or a time frame? When did you have the feeling in any of your previous LTR's?


It's a time frame only in not the first time I'm meeting a man (because how well can you know someone the first time you meet)?

It's the man himself, his qualities, his life, his personality, our connection.

My last LTR was with a man who was friends with people I knew, I had met him in his work environment as well, and I knew a lot about his history and family, also.

That's different from a man I meet for the first time online dating who is a giant unknown and could be lying about and faking everything.


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## Numb26

Deejo said:


> I can't and certainly don't speak for the youngsters, late teens, through early thirties. So the legend of the 3 date rule is well established, and I feel it is mostly that ... legend.
> 
> Most of my sexual relationships took place after I divorced in 2011. I was already in my mid-forties, and all of the women I dated were late 30's to 40's and also divorced. Most were definitely NOT looking immediately for husband number 2, and had been in sexually unfulfilling marriages (certainly another topic entirely). Suffice to say, if I had to put metrics on it, from meeting someone to being intimate was generally within a handful of dates (definitely not always 3) and almost always within a month of having regular contact and dating. And it was never a surprise or a secret. Nobody is being surprised or manipulated into sex by your mid-thirties. You have sex because you choose to have sex.


I am in my 50's and since the divorce I and I have been dating again I would say the average is 1-2 dates before sex.


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## Enigma32

I do enjoy this particular discussion. Here is my take.

I think that as a man, we should follow the 3 date rule almost all of the time. One mistake I think a lot of men make though, is that they are just too focused on sex. Just chill and don't make a thing out of it. In my experience, when a woman was interested, she generally made her interest obvious enough that I didn't have to push for sex, it just happened....by date 3. 

Most often, if a woman is putting off sex at all, then she just plain isn't into you. There will always be the outlier, someone like @Diana7 perhaps, but those ladies generally make it known just like she does. It's up to you if you're willing to wait for that sort of thing since it requires a bigger investment of time and energy.


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## Cletus

Mr. Nail said:


> This got me thinking as I am extroverted and demi-sexual. I retook the test and scored a ENFP.


Take some time to investigate the background of the M.B. test before you put any credence into it.

/threadjack


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## Deejo

TXTrini said:


> To answer your questions:
> So, what is your criteria and timeframe surrounding getting busy?
> I don't have one, it depends on circumstances (attraction, interest, potential).
> 
> And why does it seem to touch a nerve if you have a timeframe, that a man may have one too?
> I don't care, Timeline Timmies are incompatible and welcome to do their thing.
> 
> For context, I am 42, twice divorced. HD prefers steak-sex over McDonald's.


'Timeline Timmies'


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## Diana7

Must admit I fear for women who are happy to go off somewhere on their own with a guy they barely know to have sex. Talk about risk taking!! I mean what could possibly go wrong. 🤔😲🤦


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## Deejo

Enigma32 said:


> I do enjoy this particular discussion. Here is my take.
> 
> Most often, if a woman is putting off sex at all, then she just plain isn't into you.


Bingo. In the case of my 'shy' lady friend, I believe she didn't dig me ... but also didn't want to be alone. She knew the game well enough that when I told her I wasn't available the following weekend, she decided to beat me to the break-up.

I was fine with all of it. Relationships are like a living laboratory. It's all interesting, the good stuff, and the decidedly less, good stuff.


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## Diana7

Enigma32 said:


> I do enjoy this particular discussion. Here is my take.
> 
> I think that as a man, we should follow the 3 date rule almost all of the time. One mistake I think a lot of men make though, is that they are just too focused on sex. Just chill and don't make a thing out of it. In my experience, when a woman was interested, she generally made her interest obvious enough that I didn't have to push for sex, it just happened....by date 3.
> 
> Most often, if a woman is putting off sex at all, then she just plain isn't into you. There will always be the outlier, someone like @Diana7 perhaps, but those ladies generally make it known just like she does. It's up to you if you're willing to wait for that sort of thing since it requires a bigger investment of time and energy.


Yes we all need to be honest about these things early on.


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## TXTrini

Deejo said:


> Bingo. In the case of my 'shy' lady friend, I believe she didn't dig me ... but also didn't want to be alone. She knew the game well enough that when I told her I wasn't available the following weekend, she decided to beat me to the break-up.
> 
> I was fine with all of it. Relationships are like a living laboratory. It's all interesting, the good stuff, and the decidedly less, good stuff.


Then why did she go away with you? I find that was really ill-done. 

If I'm going away with someone, I expect some vacation nookie.


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## Mr. Nail

OK @Cletus let's just say I'm not "hetero-normative-Horn-Dog" and it's going to take more than 3 dates before I whip off my pants.


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## Deejo

Diana7 said:


> Must admit I fear for women who are happy to go off somewhere on their own with a guy they barely know to have sex. Talk about risk taking!! I mean what could possibly go wrong. 🤔😲🤦


Again ... please qualify 'barely know'?

If a woman feels emotionally connected, safe, and invested in a man who presumably has demonstrated some kind of behaviors or traits to foster those feelings, I'm presuming you still see him as a stranger.
Once again, we are down to feelings vs. time. 

And by the input I'm seeing, feelings is generally the determining factor, and there are those who choose to use time as a metric for validating and choosing to act upon those feelings. 

I've never felt guilty about timeframe. Ever. And there has always been feelings. And we covered this a long, long, time ago, a guy know whether a woman checks the box for sex within nano-seconds of laying eyes on her.


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## Enigma32

Deejo said:


> Bingo. In the case of my 'shy' lady friend, I believe she didn't dig me ... but also didn't want to be alone. She knew the game well enough that when I told her I wasn't available the following weekend, she decided to beat me to the break-up.
> 
> I was fine with all of it. Relationships are like a living laboratory. It's all interesting, the good stuff, and the decidedly less, good stuff.


Yup. She was just bored and looking for some entertainment and validation. I assume you were paying for dates and all that, am I right? It's a nice gig for bored ladies to let some guy take them out and keep them entertained while they still look around for someone they actually like. I used to have a female friend that would post on Facebook on weekends about some new movie or restaurant she was interested in, then field the responses from the thirsty guys in her comments offering to take her out.


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## Deejo

TXTrini said:


> Then why did she go away with you? I find that was really ill-done.
> 
> If I'm going away with someone, I expect some vacation nookie.


Roger that good buddy.

Couple of reasons I think. I liked her. Found her attractive. And she was more than a little socially awkward. She just never seemed comfortable, but kept giving big smiles when I'd ask what she was doing the following weekend. And ... we were about an hour away from one another. So, despite 3 months of dating, we probably saw each other around 10 times.

Maybes she believed she'd grow to be crazy about me, really don't know. But ... I still found it fun and interesting as opposed to frustrating. 

I have a son on the autism spectrum, so ... I think I have a soft spot for folks like that. Both kids and adults. I chose to be patient and kind. But I also knew that the weekend away was going to be the determining factor if things stood any kind of chance of it being a reciprocal relationship. Thus, I didn't pout or argue when she bowed out.


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## Deejo

Enigma32 said:


> Yup. She was just bored and looking for some entertainment and validation. I assume you were paying for dates and all that, am I right? It's a nice gig for bored ladies to let some guy take them out and keep them entertained while they still look around for someone they actually like. I used to have a female friend that would post on Facebook on weekends about some new movie or restaurant she was interested in, then field the responses from the thirsty guys in her comments offering to take her out.


I don't think so. See my post to @TXTrini. In no way shape or form did this woman have an ounce of 'game'. _Edited to add_ even she paid for at least 4 of our get togethers.

Got to be honest, that is seldom the case in my experience. I have no issues paying for dates. I don't necessarily see a date as a transaction. Not initially. In my grown up dating experience, I've never NOT had a woman offer to pay for dates, I usually follow up with, "Are you sure?" and if they say yes, which they always do, I let them pay. Have even had a few surprise me with having covered the check before I ask for it.


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## Deejo

Livvie said:


> Ha no, my concern about STDs is that I've got a low partner count and an infection free body, in my early 50s, and I'm not about to subject myself to a possible infection from a guy who might not have been as careful as me my whole life. F that. I'm not paying the price for someone else's sexual life choices. Test, or it's a no go.


Do you test as well? 
That has always been my expectation. You want mine, show me yours.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

I think a woman's perspective on this probably changes over time, maybe based on a combination of age and past experience. I have no data to back this up, but I think younger women are probably quicker to go to sex, at least the first couple times. Then LTR becomes the desire, especially if those first few sexual experiences were relationships that didn't last long, and I bet they slow things down. Then later in life, maybe after having been previously married, that time might shorten because they are more secure in their sexuality and know what they want. 

Please, no one bite my head off for this view. I'm just spit-balling, lol. My own experience is very limited since my wife is my only sexual partner. When I was 16/17 I did have one opportunity with a girl I was dating, on our 3rd date by chance, but she ended up having her period so nothing happened and we broke up before another opportunity arose. And one other instance was someone I had known for a couple years, but never dated. She just threw her self at me on a first "date", but I declined and got out of there, lol.

My wife has had a very limited number of sexual partners, I'm her 3rd. Realize this was when she was 17 or so, back in the 1980's, teens didn't really do what I would call real dating. Maybe a movie or trip to walk around the local shopping mall constituted a date. It was more like hanging out. In her first experience she was with the guy for a couple weeks before they had sex. They only had sex a few times and he left her. That made her wait a bit longer with her second, about a month from what she has said. That relationship lasted nearly 2 years, they were engaged and lived together. He ended up cheating on her and they broke up. She made me wait considerably longer, lucky me! We were together 3-4 months before we had sex for the first time. This is where my initial theory comes from. She felt like she had been burned in her first two sexual relationships and I think it made her more cautious. She had also matured quite a bit in that time as well.


----------



## heartsbeating

Deejo said:


> I am of the belief, and although some will no doubt claim counter, that the overwhelming majority of women, I daresay all, know by the end of the first date, whether or not they want to sleep with that man.
> 
> The when, is the other matter.


No doubt you know by now that I'm not qualified for this thread. Still, I offer my unqualified view nonetheless. I think what you wrote above has merit. And sociocultural elements aside, I could imagine that feelings play a part perhaps alongside one's risk propensity (...yes, I had to look up that word and which I think I have used correctly). Therefore, I'd figure factors such as being naked and intimate with another is potentially the most vulnerable position one could put themselves in - physically - and for some also emotionally. Then considerations of one's own view of sexual intimacy, whether it's important to be exclusive or not; and which may roll into whether one may feel used afterwards and/or if the lover becomes a hanger-on when it's not welcomed. I guess from that line of thinking it's a lot about self-protection - emotional and physical. Who or what might one be inviting into their life, beyond inviting into their body. Then on another level, how about having enough of an idea whether the sexual style is likely to be compatible. That said, with the other thread you referred to, and as another poster suggested in that thread, there's also a lot that can be shared both sensually and sexually aside from intercourse. To put my word of the day to use again, I see these things as risk propensity combined with feelings. Anyway, whadda I know.

I'd be surprised if there was a relationship between the question posed and extroverted traits vs introverted though. Speaking from a more extroverted position.



Deejo said:


> II'm dating a woman now, who already in the span of 3 dates, knows more about me, and I her, than the woman I indicated above did in 3 months.


Do you mean you know more about each other sexually, emotionally, personality... or all of these/other?


----------



## Numb26

The woman I am currently dating and I had sex on what was technically our second date. Though we have known each other forn6 months in a social/professional setting. I don't think that it means anything. We are both middle aged and have a sense of "making up for lost time". But really, does it matter how fast or how slow a couple has sex for the first time? Aren't we all consenting adults, able to make our own decisions?


----------



## heartsbeating

Numb26 said:


> But really, does it matter how fast or how slow a couple has sex for the first time? Aren't we all consenting adults, able to make our own decisions?


Amen.


----------



## TXTrini

Deejo said:


> Roger that good buddy.
> 
> Couple of reasons I think. I liked her. Found her attractive. And she was more than a little socially awkward. She just never seemed comfortable, but kept giving big smiles when I'd ask what she was doing the following weekend. And ... we were about an hour away from one another. So, despite 3 months of dating, we probably saw each other around 10 times.
> 
> Maybes she believed she'd grow to be crazy about me, really don't know. But ... I still found it fun and interesting as opposed to frustrating.
> 
> I have a son on the autism spectrum, so ... I think I have a soft spot for folks like that. Both kids and adults. I chose to be patient and kind. But I also knew that the weekend away was going to be the determining factor if things stood any kind of chance of it being a reciprocal relationship. Thus, I didn't pout or argue when she bowed out.


For what it's worth, I don't do getaways with anyone I'm not in a relationship with, so I'm biased. I think it's nuts to go away with someone who might make me want to hide their body in the nearest national forest.



Deejo said:


> Do you test as well?
> That has always been my expectation.* You want mine, show me yours.*


I completely agree with Livvie on that one especially since many men talk about multi-dating and apparently have no issues dipping their rods in multiple ponds. I weeded out multi-daters first though, that thought is downright disgusting.

People should be responsible and prepared when dating, especially when sex can happen. My results were ready to go and viewable on a health app, I expected no less.


----------



## heartsbeating

TXTrini said:


> For what it's worth, I don't do getaways with anyone I'm not in a relationship with, so I'm biased. I think it's nuts to go away with someone who might make me want to hide their body in the nearest national forest.
> 
> I completely agree with Livvie on that one especially since many men talk about multi-dating and apparently have no issues dipping their rods in multiple ponds. I weeded out multi-daters first though, that thought is downright disgusting.
> 
> People should be responsible and prepared when dating, especially when sex can happen. My results were ready to go and viewable on a health app, I expected no less.


 you're on a roll. Love it.


----------



## Deejo

heartsbeating said:


> No doubt you know by now that I'm not qualified for this thread. Still, I offer my unqualified view nonetheless. I think what you wrote above has merit. And sociocultural elements aside, I could imagine that feelings play a part perhaps alongside one's risk propensity (...yes, I had to look up that word and which I think I have used correctly). Therefore, I'd figure factors such as being naked and intimate with another is potentially the most vulnerable position one could put themselves in - physically - and for some also emotionally. Then considerations of one's own view of sexual intimacy, whether it's important to be exclusive or not; and which may roll into whether one may feel used afterwards and/or if the lover becomes a hanger-on when it's not welcomed. I guess from that line of thinking it's a lot about self-protection - emotional and physical. Who or what might one be inviting in to their life, beyond inviting into their body. Then on another level, how about having enough of an idea whether the sexual style is likely to be compatible. That said, with the other thread you referred to, and as another poster suggested in that thread, there's also a lot that can be shared both sensually and sexually aside from intercourse. To put my word of the day to use again, I see these things as risk propensity combined with feelings. Anyway, whadda I know.
> 
> I'd be surprised if there was a relationship between the question posed and extroverted traits vs introverted though. Speaking from a more extroverted position.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean you know more about each other sexually, emotionally, personality... or all of these/other?


You have Batman. You are qualified.

Risk propensity I think helps better define the time/feelings conundrum.

As for my new lady friend. The threshold for risk propensity has been met. All of the chemical soup for attraction is there, which I'd be the first to acknowledge is no indicator of long term success. But, ya got to start somewhere. She knows my story. I know hers. Can't speak for others, but a sure fire way people in my dating orbit definitely use early dates as 'info dumps' in terms of discovering something about someone based upon how messy their past is, or getting a sense of whether they are truly reconciled with whatever their last relationship was. Even how someone chooses to talk about or refer to their ex, says a lot about who they are.


----------



## Diana7

Deejo said:


> Again ... please qualify 'barely know'?
> 
> If a woman feels emotionally connected, safe, and invested in a man who presumably has demonstrated some kind of behaviors or traits to foster those feelings, I'm presuming you still see him as a stranger.
> Once again, we are down to feelings vs. time.
> 
> And by the input I'm seeing, feelings is generally the determining factor, and there are those who choose to use time as a metric for validating and choosing to act upon those feelings.
> 
> I've never felt guilty about timeframe. Ever. And there has always been feelings. And we covered this a long, long, time ago, a guy know whether a woman checks the box for sex within nano-seconds of laying eyes on her.


Barely know as in after 1,2 or 3 dates.
Women may feel there is an attraction but she would be wise to spend more time with him first before actually having sex.


----------



## LisaDiane

Deejo said:


> I don't think so. See my post to @TXTrini. In no way shape or form did this woman have an ounce of 'game'. _Edited to add_ even she paid for at least 4 of our get togethers.
> 
> Got to be honest, that is seldom the case in my experience. I have no issues paying for dates. I don't necessarily see a date as a transaction. Not initially. In my grown up dating experience, I've never NOT had a woman offer to pay for dates, I usually follow up with, "Are you sure?" and if they say yes, which they always do, I let them pay. Have even had a few surprise me with having covered the check before I ask for it.


Do you think they were eager to pay because they didn't want to feel expected (by dating "code", not by you) to have sex?


----------



## ccpowerslave

Diana7 said:


> Must admit I fear for women who are happy to go off somewhere on their own with a guy they barely know to have sex. Talk about risk taking!! I mean what could possibly go wrong. 🤔😲🤦


If they’re good at picking men, then nothing.






Except their world gets rocked all night loooooong. If they’re not great at picking men then any number of bad things.


----------



## Married but Happy

I never gave much thought to how soon a date would have sex with me; I was willing to wait a while for _her_ to decide, even a few months, as long as I thought she'd be a good match (I rarely needed more than a date or two to determine if _I_ thought we'd be a good match; if I didn't think so, I wouldn't see her again even if sex were on offer). Of the dozens of women I dated, ALL initiated sex by the 5th date - a few did on the first, but most did on the 2nd or 3rd.


----------



## DownButNotOut

Diana7 said:


> Must admit I fear for women who are happy to go off somewhere on their own with a guy they barely know to have sex. Talk about risk taking!! I mean what could possibly go wrong. 🤔😲🤦


I know! As soon as the blindfold is on, and hands are tied to bedposts her boyfriend shows up and they rob the poor guy blind. Who wants that?


----------



## LisaDiane

ccpowerslave said:


> If they’re good at picking men, then nothing.
> 
> Except their world gets rocked all night loooooong. If they’re not great at picking men then any number of bad things.


Some men (people) are very good at hiding the bad they are capable of....so no matter how wonderful they appear, you can be very wrong.


----------



## Numb26

LisaDiane said:


> Some men (people) are very good at hiding the bad they are capable of....so no matter how wonderful they appear, you can be very wrong.


Remember that the same goes for women too


----------



## MJJEAN

Deejo said:


> So, what is your criteria and timeframe surrounding getting busy? And why does it seem to touch a nerve if you have a timeframe, that a man may have one too?


A few dates in, no sex, I'm assuming he isn't into me or isn't a very sexual person and I'm out.
I got no problem with a man also having a timeframe.



Deejo said:


> I'm very familiar with the 3 date rule. But when you are talking about 2 middle aged people with young adult children at home, sex and logistics has to come into the equation. Are you saying you're dumping a woman that you KNOW wants to have sex with you and it isn't in the first 3 dates? You friggin' Neanderthals ...


In my middle age with young adult children I have to say having an adult kid at home would be close to dealbreaker territory for me. Having that adult child's presence interfere with the development of our relationship would definitely cross the line firmly into dealbreaker territory.



happyhusband0005 said:


> I think it is probably best to have sex before the first date just to be sure you're not wasting your time.


You think you jest. I did that a few times. It was great. No questions like "Is he into me like that?" and "Are we sexually compatible?" because we already knew.



Diana7 said:


> If any guy I met had a 3 date rule I would be more than happy to say goodbye and good riddance.


Which is the right thing because clearly such a man wouldn't be compatible with you.



Diana7 said:


> Must admit I fear for women who are happy to go off somewhere on their own with a guy they barely know to have sex. Talk about risk taking!! I mean what could possibly go wrong. 🤔😲🤦


Depends on the woman. I carry concealed and have some experience in lowdown dirty street fights with both men and women. I've never been worried about heading out alone with a guy I met. I trust my instincts and can handle myself.



Deejo said:


> If a woman feels emotionally connected, safe, and invested in a man who presumably has demonstrated some kind of behaviors or traits to foster those feelings, I'm presuming you still see him as a stranger.
> Once again, we are down to feelings vs. time.
> 
> And by the input I'm seeing, feelings is generally the determining factor, and there are those who choose to use time as a metric for validating and choosing to act upon those feelings.


Unlike a lot of women, I don't need "feelings" other than lust to be involved to have sex. To date there had best be lust and a general enjoyment of each others company. To be in a relationship the man better be damn good at sex AND engaging my mind PLUS evoke an intense emotional response.

DH made me wait til our 3rd date for sex. I was quite perturbed. Its over 20 years later and I still occasionally give him grief for it.


----------



## LisaDiane

Numb26 said:


> Remember that the same goes for women too


YES...actually, it was my sister who I was thinking of as the bad she was capable of, that you would never guess by spending time with her. She seems so loving and sweet.

But yes, and @DownButNotOut made a great point too, about what can happen to men.


----------



## Cletus

MJJEAN said:


> Depends on the woman. I carry concealed and have some experience in lowdown dirty street fights with both men and women. I've never been worried about heading out alone with a guy I met. I trust my instincts and can handle myself.


How "concealed" are we talking? "Say baby, my back itches, could you get that with the butt of your Glock? Thanks".


----------



## Numb26

LisaDiane said:


> YES...actually, it was my sister who I was thinking of as the bad she was capable of, that you would never guess by spending time with her. She seems so loving and sweet.
> 
> But yes, and @DownButNotOut made a great point too, about what can happen to men.


Sounds like someone else I know


----------



## Deejo

TXTrini said:


> For what it's worth, I don't do getaways with anyone I'm not in a relationship with, so I'm biased. I think it's nuts to go away with someone who might make me want to hide their body in the nearest national forest.
> 
> 
> I completely agree with Livvie on that one especially since many men talk about multi-dating and apparently have no issues dipping their rods in multiple ponds. I weeded out multi-daters first though, that thought is downright disgusting.
> 
> People should be responsible and prepared when dating, especially when sex can happen. My results were ready to go and viewable on a health app, I expected no less.


I'm still with you. Yes I have multi-dated. I used to post a lot about this ... cripes ... years ago. I had/have a dating 'code'. If I become intimate with someone, the intended goal is to foster a relationship and build on that intimacy. I'm not interested in having sex with lots of people. I'm interested in having lots of sex. I did not, and do not have casual sex with multiple partners while dating. Once a relationship becomes intimate, I respectfully close out any other dating relationships, which in aggregate were almost never beyond meeting more than a handful of times.

But to your point, from both of our perspectives, we were in an exclusive relationship. For me, it was time to move the goal posts. The 'weekend away' is always a pretty good metric of how you are going to get along outside of a strictly 'dating' atmosphere, no? We didn't have sex, she didn't stuff my body under the bed. But we still had fun.


----------



## LisaDiane

Deejo said:


> I'm still with you. Yes I have multi-dated. I used to post a lot about this ... cripes ... years ago. I had/have a dating 'code'. If I become intimate with someone, the intended goal is to foster a relationship and build on that intimacy. *I'm not interested in having sex with lots of people. I'm interested in having lots of sex.* I did not, and do not have casual sex with multiple partners while dating. Once a relationship becomes intimate, I respectfully close out any other dating relationships, which in aggregate were almost never beyond meeting more than a handful of times.
> 
> But to your point, from both of our perspectives, we were in an exclusive relationship. For me, it was time to move the goal posts. The 'weekend away' is always a pretty good metric of how you are going to get along outside of a strictly 'dating' atmosphere, no? We didn't have sex, she didn't stuff my body under the bed. But we still had fun.


This is ME too...I'm not interested in having sex with lots of different men...I want lots of sex with ONE man.


----------



## Young at Heart

Deejo said:


> ....A post I made in the other thread indicated that as an older (*yet young at heart*) dude, once again thrust into the dating market, I am relatively flexible about gauging someone's interest in, desire for, or readiness to be intimate.
> 
> ....I am of the belief, and although some will no doubt claim counter, that the overwhelming majority of women, I daresay all, know by the end of the first date, whether or not they want to sleep with that man.
> 
> The when, is the other matter......





Deejo said:


> ,,,,,*,Let the ladies answer for cripe sakes*. I pretty much know where every guy stands. We are ready for sex ASAP. But if you're are telling me your dumping a woman that doesn't meet the 3 date criteria, I want to know how old you are, and how much dating you do. Because I forget stuff these days ...





Deejo said:


> @Livvie, also curious, is your concern about STD's based upon the fact that you have been subjected to one in the past?
> 
> I've never had an STD, and *I wouldn't think about getting a panel done now, because I've had 1 partner for the last 7 years*. My count extends a bit beyond one hand, but I certainly did get them in the past at the request of partners, and it's not like we were behaving like church mice waiting until we got results.


First of all I want to clarify that this Young at Heart, is not what you are referencing.

Second, I will let the ladies speak as to the when and how long.

The rest of my comments all have to do with the topic of being sexually active in the 21st Century.

Third, in this day and age, one really does need to discuss STD's, protection, and consent prior to any sexual encounter. Just "assuming" will get a person into lots of trouble. Even if you want to jump someone's bones, if you can't do discuss those things on a first, second or third date, you probably are not ready for either dating or mating. 

Finally, even if you have been with only a limited number of partners, getting an STD test panel if you start dating or end a long term relationship, is a pretty good idea. There are a number of STD's or STI's that can linger without symptoms for years, in men and women. Also, just because you have been extremely careful and in a LTR, doesn't mean your partner didn't cheat or a past partner of theirs didn't cheat on them. Finally, even in assisted living communities the rise in STD's is making heads turn.

Let me share with you a little light reading matter on older folks and STD's 

This is an article back from 2014, and with the exception of the Covid lockdown, I would expect things may have gotten worse. Psychology Today: Baby Boomers Gone Wild! Seniors and STDs

An article from a STD testing website, so they probably do have a bias. Senior STD rates skyrocketing due to retirement communities While reading it, check out some of the advertising on how inexpensive some STD test panels are.

And a final article (from 2017, so again BC or Before Covid) talking about STD's, safe sex, and consent comparing College student to Seniors. Sex habits in retirement homes make college look like a nursery

And now this Young at Heart senior citizen will sit back and let the ladies respond to your questions.

Be safe out there.


----------



## Deejo

Numb26 said:


> I am in my 50's and since the divorce I and I have been dating again I would say the average is 1-2 dates before sex.


And I'm presuming you don't even need to mildly coerce anyone, correct? That was my experience.


----------



## Numb26

Deejo said:


> And I'm presuming you don't even need to mildly coerce anyone, correct? That was my experience.


My experience is that most times the women are the aggressors.


----------



## Diana7

ccpowerslave said:


> If they’re good at picking men, then nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except their world gets rocked all night loooooong. If they’re not great at picking men then any number of bad things.


It's pretty hard to know what sort of man he is after 2 or 3 hours.


----------



## Diana7

MJJEAN said:


> A few dates in, no sex, I'm assuming he isn't into me or isn't a very sexual person and I'm out.
> I got no problem with a man also having a timeframe.
> 
> 
> In my middle age with young adult children I have to say having an adult kid at home would be close to dealbreaker territory for me. Having that adult child's presence interfere with the development of our relationship would definitely cross the line firmly into dealbreaker territory.
> 
> 
> You think you jest. I did that a few times. It was great. No questions like "Is he into me like that?" and "Are we sexually compatible?" because we already knew.
> 
> 
> Which is the right thing because clearly such a man wouldn't be compatible with you.
> 
> 
> Depends on the woman. I carry concealed and have some experience in lowdown dirty street fights with both men and women. I've never been worried about heading out alone with a guy I met. I trust my instincts and can handle myself.
> 
> 
> Unlike a lot of women, I don't need "feelings" other than lust to be involved to have sex. To date there had best be lust and a general enjoyment of each others company. To be in a relationship the man better be damn good at sex AND engaging my mind PLUS evoke an intense emotional response.
> 
> DH made me wait til our 3rd date for sex. I was quite perturbed. Its over 20 years later and I still occasionally give him grief for it.


Do you think that many women who got raped/ killed/attacked by men they just met also thought they could look after themselves? 
On first dates people are always advised to be careful and meet in a public place. To tell a friend where you are going. Not to give our your address. To drive your own car to the date. Yet going off to his place or yours for sex after a few hours or a couple of dates is ok? I call it crazy.


----------



## Cletus

Diana7 said:


> Do you think that many women who got raped/ killed/attacked by men they just met also thought they could look after themselves?


Given the number of women who are raped/killed/attacked by their domestic partners, I'm really not sure where the true risk lies. For all I know, you might statistically be better off with a stranger.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Hey @Deejo

For me the answer is "hopefully by the 2nd or 3rd date". Definitely not on the first date. Why not first date? Because if I'm having sex with someone for the first time it means he will be my boyfriend and we are going to be together (for awhile at least). And the first time I have sex with them I want to be able to spend the night and cuddle afterwards. I mean, basically I don't want to have sex with anyone who I can't feel comfortable spending the night with or cuddling.

So on the first date, it is just too soon to spend the night, have to get up and take a shower etc (I'm not bringing an overnight bag to a first date, lol). I'm not going to have sex then hop out of bed and drive home all disheveled late at night. I'm happy to do that later - after we are established as exclusive and are digging each other. At that point a quickie and hop out of bed and drive home is no biggie. But first date, no way. First time sex is awesome and deserve a lot of time (ie: overnight).

The other reason is exclusivity. I won't have sex without it. So usually a first date is not going to determine exclusivity, it's just too soon. Sometimes by 2nd or 3rd date it can be established.

If I have a 3rd date and I'm still not feeling it for whatever reason, I know it's not going to happen at all.

I am definitely always hoping it will happen (by 2nd or 3rd) and I am talking to my date about sexy things and preferences and such, gauging how it might be between us.

I am not currently dating or having sex with anyone so my answer is just making me depressed. 

(ps...first date make out and mash is definitely my preference, though!)


----------



## Al_Bundy

Unless it's a thought experiment by the OP, I think he's wasting his time by asking women. He should look at their actions. How many times has he heard things like "I don't normally do this" or "I've never done this before"


----------



## Diana7

Cletus said:


> Given the number of women who are raped/killed/attacked by their domestic partners, I'm really not sure where the true risk lies. For all I know, you might statistically be better off with a stranger.


Not sure about that. We do need to be careful and do what we can to protect ourselves.


----------



## heartsbeating

Cletus said:


> Given the number of women who are raped/killed/attacked by their domestic partners, I'm really not sure where the true risk lies. For all I know, you might statistically be better off with a stranger.





Diana7 said:


> Not sure about that. We do need to be careful and do what we can to protect ourselves.


I think both points are valid.


----------



## heartsbeating

So valid in fact, that it posted twice.


----------



## heartsbeating

Faithful Wife said:


> Hey @Deejo
> 
> For me the answer is "hopefully by the 2nd or 3rd date". Definitely not on the first date. Why not first date? Because if I'm having sex with someone for the first time it means he will be my boyfriend and we are going to be together (for awhile at least). And the first time I have sex with them I want to be able to spend the night and cuddle afterwards. I mean, basically I don't want to have sex with anyone who I can't feel comfortable spending the night with or cuddling.
> 
> So on the first date, it is just too soon to spend the night, have to get up and take a shower etc (I'm not bringing an overnight bag to a first date, lol). I'm not going to have sex then hop out of bed and drive home all disheveled late at night. I'm happy to do that later - after we are established as exclusive and are digging each other. At that point a quickie and hop out of bed and drive home is no biggie. But first date, no way. First time sex is awesome and deserve a lot of time (ie: overnight).
> 
> The other reason is exclusivity. I won't have sex without it. So usually a first date is not going to determine exclusivity, it's just too soon. Sometimes by 2nd or 3rd date it can be established.
> 
> If I have a 3rd date and I'm still not feeling it for whatever reason, I know it's not going to happen at all.
> 
> I am definitely always hoping it will happen (by 2nd or 3rd) and I am talking to my date about sexy things and preferences and such, gauging how it might be between us.
> 
> I am not currently dating or having sex with anyone so my answer is just making me depressed.
> 
> (ps...first date make out and mash is definitely my preference, though!)


I was going to hit 'like' but it wouldn't explain why... and it's that it is good to see you post!


----------



## joannacroc

So I think it's a sort of monogamy vs. sex drive thing. I am a bit of serial monogamist. Not interested in sleeping with someone who is sleeping with other people. And to be sure I have the right person (at least for short-term) and want to continue seeing them, I would say I now tend to wait longer than 3 dates. I learned from previous boyfriends - you bond with people you sleep with, it's just a biological reality, and at 3 dates you really don't know a person, you just know what they want you to know. So I would say 3 dates minimum but probably longer. The weirdest dude I almost went on a date with recently started saying outright before 1st date that he wanted to have sex, basically, and I was equally blunt and just said, I was really looking forward to meeting him but wasn't down with that. Dodged a bullet there! I want to be sure it's my judgement choosing the person, not my hormones and how badly I need d^*) at that particular point in time. Sorry if that is overly crude.


----------



## joannacroc

Diana7 said:


> Not sure about that. We do need to be careful and do what we can to protect ourselves.


Took a step back for a few weeks because the news story about the shopping cart serial killer who picked his dates up from online dating sites. That scared the s*%# out of me for several days.


----------



## TXTrini

Deejo said:


> I'm still with you. Yes I have multi-dated. I used to post a lot about this ... cripes ... years ago. I had/have a dating 'code'. If I become intimate with someone, the intended goal is to foster a relationship and build on that intimacy. I'm not interested in having sex with lots of people. I'm interested in having lots of sex. I did not, and do not have casual sex with multiple partners while dating. Once a relationship becomes intimate, I respectfully close out any other dating relationships, which in aggregate were almost never beyond meeting more than a handful of times.
> 
> But to your point, from both of our perspectives, we were in an exclusive relationship. For me, it was time to move the goal posts. The 'weekend away' is always a pretty good metric of how you are going to get along outside of a strictly 'dating' atmosphere, no? We didn't have sex, she didn't stuff my body under the bed. But we still had fun.


Suppose you end up being attracted and attached to more than one? Then what? Deathmatch? I dunno about you, but when I'm hungry everything looks delicious. 

No judgment, btw. I always prefer people who are upfront and honest about their intentions, there's no shame in being incompatible, only in deceiving others and leading them on.

I simply know myself enough to know that sex is bonding for me, so casual is not for me. And yes, I tried it after my divorce and it was extremely lackluster.


----------



## joannacroc

Deejo said:


> Discussion and some questions from @LisaDiane and @Livvie in another thread prompted the creation of this one.
> 
> A post I made in the other thread indicated that as an older (yet young at heart) dude, once again thrust into the dating market, I am relatively flexible about gauging someone's interest in, desire for, or readiness to be intimate.
> 
> I have indeed had sex on a first date. And in one case was in a dating relationship for just about 3 months, with no intimacy. I invited her to go away for a weekend. She enthusiastically said yes. On said weekend, I made the move, and she indicated she wasn't comfortable. Kissed her on the forehead, and told her that's fine. Next weekend she asked me if I wanted to get together and I told her I had plans (not a game, I did). She then expeditiously dumped me over text. I simply responded with, "I understand."
> 
> The comment I made in the other thread that drew questions was, "I have no interest in 36 to 56 year old woman that is looking to protect her virginity for a second time." Meaning that they are consciously withholding from their partner to meet some unspoken expectation, surrounding getting busy. I've seen it, I've discussed it, I've read about ... even here on the boards. I'm sure everyone that has been here for a while can recall reading a post referring to a woman who has been very liberal with her sexuality, right up until she meets a man that she deems of value, and suddenly the waiting game is on. Generally, these are younger couples. And I certainly felt like there was a bit of that mentality even in the thread we were all participating in.
> 
> I am of the belief, and although some will no doubt claim counter, that the overwhelming majority of women, I daresay all, know by the end of the first date, whether or not they want to sleep with that man.
> 
> The when, is the other matter.
> 
> I'm dating a woman now, who already in the span of 3 dates, knows more about me, and I her, than the woman I indicated above did in 3 months.
> 
> So, what is your criteria and timeframe surrounding getting busy?* And why does it seem to touch a nerve if you have a timeframe, that a man may have one too?*


I don't think it touches a nerve. If someone wants something different than me, that's a sign that we aren't compatible. They want something different than me. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Benbutton

Deejo said:


> Respectfully, you're not answering the question. What qualifies as 'knowing someone well?'
> 
> What's the difference if you have sex with a dude you vibe within the second week of meeting, versus the guy you wait 30 or more days for, given that you may date the first guy for 2 years and the second guy for only six months?
> 
> It's just challenging for me to wrap my head around. I understand that for most women there is going to need to be a level of comfort, and a level of connection. What I don't understand are the thought processes that somehow that equates to a timeline.


Well....there is this thing called horniness which often goes well with timing.


----------



## Benbutton

Livvie said:


> My partner count fits on one hand.


Yeah but there will be some clown who will ask if thumbs count 😆.


----------



## Personal

Deejo said:


> Discussion and some questions from @LisaDiane and @Livvie
> The comment I made in the other thread that drew questions was, "I have no interest in 36 to 56 year old woman that is looking to protect her virginity for a second time." Meaning that they are consciously withholding from their partner to meet some unspoken expectation, surrounding getting busy. I've seen it, I've discussed it, I've read about ... even here on the boards. I'm sure everyone that has been here for a while can recall reading a post referring to a woman who has been very liberal with her sexuality, right up until she meets a man that she deems of value, and suddenly the waiting game is on. Generally, these are younger couples. And I certainly felt like there was a bit of that mentality even in the thread we were all participating in.


I've discussed this before with my wife and she shares the perspective that (if we were to part) she has no interest in men, who are looking to protect their virginity a second time. Since she has no interest in protecting hers going forward, since she's a grown woman who is way past that nonsense.

She has also said on timelines, that it depend upon how she feels about the other man and how much she desires wanting to have sex with him. To the point she would have no qualms having sex on a first date or even without a date, if she felt a desire to do so. She has also told me she would have no interest in keeping a dating relationship going very long at all, without getting sex within the first few dates, because life is too short to waste it on avoiding sex.

That covered my wife asked me out on our first date (at lunchtime), which I followed by asking her out for our second date (on the same evening). With our third date (a few days later) seeing my wife initiate sharing sex with me at her place. Of which years later she told me if I wasn't up for sex then, she would have let me go lest she waste her time being with a man who was sex shy.

Yet oddly enough for mostly religious reasons she managed to maintain her virginity until a few weeks before she asked me out on our first date. Then by the time she thought "**** it" I'm not saving myself interminably to no end, since she dumped all the men (even with some of them proposing marriage) who had courted her before. She had decided to start sowing her wild oats, which so far has only her got as far as being with one other man and then me.

As to my own experience on being on the other end of women, which dates back to the 1990s with women up to their mid thirties, although most were near my age and no older than 26. Almost all of those women had sex on the first or second date, some on the third and most rarely around the fourth and any further dates with no sex we didn't go there, not because of some rule, but simply because it was evident that the desire for an ongoing sexual relationship was clearly absent.

Also what I would often find was the women were the ones who mostly asked for sex or initiated the sex first. In fact there have been a couple of times on a second date when I was asked by my dates with some consternation, why didn't I try for sex with them earlier (which then led to sex). One thing for sure if I didn't go for sex early myself or was hesitant in the face of them wanting sex early, I was going to get let go.

Yet one didn't even need to go on dates to find women keen to share sex. The quickest for me was about ten minutes, although to be fair we were both somewhat inebriated and it seemed like a good idea at the time. That said I remember being taken home to some woman's place while inebriated and as I quickly sobered up, I changed my mind and went back home to the barracks instead. Otherwise sharing sex within a couple of hours of meeting at a party or venue was pretty common for me (and that includes with my ex-wife when we met at a party). So in several instances I would meet, smile, then chat, then share sex and dating would often start after that.

So given that experience being the norm when I was young, I quickly learned to offer, initiate, or ask for sex early on, or accept sex enthusiastically and early on, if I was going to get to enjoy being in ongoing sexual relationships.

Now that I am 50, and given my experience. If I were to look for other sexual partners, I would be surprised to date many women who weren't keen on sharing sex early on. Although who knows maybe that is what I would find?

That said because my wife had a religious school education, she still has a limited number (because they aren't the norm) of women friends in their late 40s and early 50s. Who are the perpetual virgins who are interminably single, that are offended by men being keen to have sex with them as they ride the dating merry go round. Yet my wife wishes they would just start having sex with some of these men, because sex is fun and life is too short to waste it not enjoying sex.



> I am of the belief, and although some will no doubt claim counter, that the overwhelming majority of women, I daresay all, know by the end of the first date, whether or not they want to sleep with that man.


Generally that is highly likely to be true for most people whatever their gender.



LisaDiane said:


> Do you think they were eager to pay because they didn't want to feel expected (by dating "code", not by you) to have sex?


Admittedly my experience of dating other women (outside of my wife), is from the long distant past (1996).

Yet for the most part in my world back then, who paid in the first instance was down to who asked first. So for me, women paid for those dates far more often than I ever did, because they asked me out first. Likewise some of the women I asked out in the first instance insisted on sharing the costs as well.

Of which there were few women who I dated that I didn't have sex with, so they weren't paying to avoid an expectation of sex, especially with the majority of them initiating and asking for sex in the first place.



Diana7 said:


> It's pretty hard to know what sort of man he is after 2 or 3 hours.


Well one could certainly determine if the man is good at sex or not.

Unsurprisingly my wife shares my perspective that ongoing sexual relationships are at their core sexual relationships. Given that she has said that she had and still has no interest in having to invest an enormous amount of time and emotional energy into a sexual relationship. With someone who then turns out to be a sexual dud or incompatible sexually. So she doesn't see any value in investing herself emotionally with someone who is a lame sexual partner.


----------



## Enigma32

TXTrini said:


> Suppose you end up being attracted and attached to more than one? Then what? Deathmatch? I dunno about you, but when I'm hungry everything looks delicious.
> 
> No judgment, btw. I always prefer people who are upfront and honest about their intentions, *there's no shame in being incompatible, only in deceiving others and leading them on.*
> 
> I simply know myself enough to know that sex is bonding for me, so casual is not for me. And yes, I tried it after my divorce and it was extremely lackluster.


I think some people out there are probably lying to themselves as much as they are any partners they might get. If you and I date and you cheat on me, you can probably tell yourself it was all my fault. Maybe even believe it. By the time you hit your 30's or so, and you've cheated on everyone you've been with, can you still keep telling yourself it's the other person's fault? All of them? No...I think a lot of these people are in denial when it comes to their true nature. We are always the hero in our own story, after all. Maybe they don't try to lie to partners any more than they are lying to themselves. That's my theory on how some of them operate anyway.


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## hamadryad

Eh,,,,I don't think there is any "playbook" for this thing....not for me, anyway...

I've had plenty of ONS(when I was much younger), and I have also waited "as long as it took"..

I am very much HD, but I am at the point where my libido is very controlled...It doesn't govern me anymore, I govern it...I think the "3 date rule" is kinda stupid. but i don't date, so I will leave that stuff to them to figure out...

I don't judge anyone...If a woman wants to get hammered right after the first date,whatever..The world is chock full of happily married and faithful couples that started with ONS'....That doesn't necessarily make her trash, or even identify her as the type that does that with everyone...

I am not a woman....I can't imagine what it must be like though, when it comes to this...I think guys underestimate this aspect when they criticize women for holding off, so they can really get to know someone...I can't speak for all guys, but there are plenty of dudes with the size and strength that can kill a typical woman in less than a minute and carry a typical petite woman under their arm like a loaf of bread..lol..How the hell in those types of circumstances can you expect a woman to just get completely naked and defenseless with a guy she just met or has only spoke to on the phone or text?? I think guys need to think about this aspect a bit more....and not just worry about how fast they are going to wet their wicks...

Bottom line is there is no number, it just depends on the circumstances...Of course, if it dragged on for several months, then I would think there is some hang up or some other non normal situation(like some religious or some other deal) happening..


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## heartsbeating

I liked reading your post @Personal

Within my social circle in the 90s, it wasn't uncommon for friends to hook-up casually. I was the odd-one out in that regard. While I had propositions for one night stands from typically older men, and which I declined, my own experience felt more like it was the guy being protective towards me.

Even a party whereby friend's older brother and I bumped into each other in the bathroom, looked at one another, shared instantaneous physical attraction and started making out before he led me to his bedroom. He expressed that respectfully he didn't intend on taking our encounter too far as he felt that I ought to wait. Admittedly, I hadn't thought too far ahead in the moment with him, and yet, recall kind of appreciating he was that way with me and perhaps as it was a one-off moment. A guy I was dating relayed that my virginity was special and he wanted us to wait 6 months. That was all him, and yes he was sincere. I didn't have a time-frame in mind. I just absorbed what he said. At some point, I suggested sooner and he said it would be worth the wait (and he was experienced), as to him, he felt it was something that ought to be special and he wanted to ensure that I was all-in with choosing to share that with him. Anyway, unrelated (...I think...) we didn't last that long, more from my end. However, it's also not like I was wanting to just get laid and not be a virgin anymore. By the time I met Batman, I was upfront that I wasn't about casual sex. Within a short time, we were experiencing and sharing in all sorts together. It didn't matter to him whether I was a virgin or not (and he was also more experienced). Anyway, dating as an adult, I have no idea about. And hence, why I wrote before that I'm unqualified for the topic.


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## heartsbeating

^ to add, after thought, I recognize that I may have chosen to view the mentioned interactions through a certain lens and that there may be another (male) way of perceiving this that I haven't.


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## MarmiteC

I'm going for a test drive as soon as possible IF the sexual chemistry is there. If it's not there then we're also not going to be dating very long even if we get on great. We're not going to continue dating if we have great sex but don't connect on any other level. I want a partner to be a lover and a friend, not one or the other.


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## In Absentia

Definitely first date, if at all possible. Maybe not quite sex (depends on the circumstances), but yeah I want to know my woman pretty quickly! As @MarmiteC said, sexual chemistry is very important. I'm not wasting any time. That said, I never had to initiate in my younger life... the ladies did that and let me know in a very explicit way...


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## Not

I’ve dated two men since my divorce in 2018. The when for sex played out differently with each one but I knew upon meeting them for the first time that it was a go for me. 
With both, things played out naturally. The first one took two weeks with multiple dates in those weeks and with the second man our second date had us half undressed in my car then homebase on the third date. The fireworks on the first date with the second man were such that if we had had the opportunity it would have happened.
For me, it is important to feel safe by getting to know someone first. If he isn’t open and talkative and sharing freely then there won’t even be a first date.
I’m in the dating pool again and will say that sexual compatibilty is way up at the top of my list of must haves so sex is going to be on the table right away if those fireworks are there and I feel he is long term material.


----------



## LisaDiane

In Absentia said:


> Definitely first date, if at all possible. Maybe not quite sex (depends on the circumstances), but yeah I want to know my woman pretty quickly! As @MarmiteC said, sexual chemistry is very important. I'm not wasting any time. That said, I never had to initiate in my younger life... the ladies did that and let me know in a very explicit way...


But how can you make that happen without bringing condoms??


----------



## MarmiteC

LisaDiane said:


> But how can you make that happen without bringing condoms??


Why would you not be prepared incase you get lucky? 🤷‍♀️ Carrying them doesn't indicate you're definitely going to but it does ensure you can be safe if you want to.


----------



## LisaDiane

MarmiteC said:


> Why would you not be prepared incase you get lucky? 🤷‍♀️ Carrying them doesn't indicate you're definitely going to but it does ensure you can be safe if you want to.


I was teasing him because he said on the other thread that gentlemen never bring condoms on dates expecting sex...Lol!!


----------



## In Absentia

LisaDiane said:


> But how can you make that happen without bringing condoms??


I knew someone with a loooong memory would bring this up...  I said it depended on the circumstances. If I ever had sex on a first date, the lady had them...  or we just didn't had penetration... too graphic? You asked for it...


----------



## In Absentia

MarmiteC said:


> Why would you not be prepared incase you get lucky? 🤷‍♀️ Carrying them doesn't indicate you're definitely going to but it does ensure you can be safe if you want to.


I don't know... as I said in the other thread, going to a first date with condoms is not very classy, is it? Maybe I'm old fashioned or just stupid. On one occasion, I forgot to buy them on the second date and my girl wasn't impressed. She had a good orgasm regardless...


----------



## In Absentia

LisaDiane said:


> I was teasing him because he said on the other thread that gentlemen never bring condoms on dates expecting sex...Lol!!


When I was 20, I just enjoyed life, dating girls and if we had sex it was a bonus. I didn't care. Spending a day with a beautiful girl holding hands was - sometimes - enough for me. It felt cozy, safe, reassuring. Just wonderful.


----------



## Deejo

Diana7 said:


> Barely know as in after 1,2 or 3 dates.
> Women may feel there is an attraction but she would be wise to spend more time with him first before actually having sex.


I have no issue with women believing this should be the norm, and would be wise. But what they believe versus what actually happens, is what effectively prompted my post. As I, and most of the men who are in the dating game and have responded can attest; the belief that handful of dates, or a handful of weeks in knowing someone is insufficient time to engage in sex, is incorrect.

I believe that it is indeed a feeling. And if the 'feeling' is established; attraction, comfort, and safety, then the timing doesn't matter. Whether it is date #1 or date #10.


----------



## Diana7

Deejo said:


> I have no issue with women believing this should be the norm, and would be wise. But what they believe versus what actually happens, is what effectively prompted my post. As I, and most of the men who are in the dating game and have responded can attest; the belief that handful of dates, or a handful of weeks in knowing someone is insufficient time to engage in sex, is incorrect.
> 
> I believe that it is indeed a feeling. And if the 'feeling' is established; attraction, comfort, and safety, then the timing doesn't matter. Whether it is date #1 or date #10.


Or date 50.


----------



## Deejo

LisaDiane said:


> Do you think they were eager to pay because they didn't want to feel expected (by dating "code", not by you) to have sex?


Great question. But no, I believe they paid in an effort to demonstrate they valued the relationship, and keep things balanced. I paid because I valued my time with them, and I believe they paid, for the same reason, and likely to make it clear that they had money they were willing to spend as well. Became intimate with all of them nonetheless. In the case of shy woman, we never had intercourse, but we did mess around. I'm guessing she just never got to closing out that trinity of 'feelings'; desire, comfort, and safety and the expected results occurred. Don't regret that experience, or see it as wasted time. Her story was unfortunate. She married a raging Narcissist who cheated on her for the bulk of their marriage ... so, not surprised there was some hesitancy on her part.

I'm well aware of the kinds of circumstances and women that @Enigma32 alluded to previously looking at dates as free fun and meals, I've just never chosen, or experienced dating that kind of woman.


----------



## Deejo

Diana7 said:


> Or date 50.


To each their own.
But ... not for this guy, and not for any woman in my dating history.


----------



## Deejo

Faithful Wife said:


> Hey @Deejo
> 
> For me the answer is "hopefully by the 2nd or 3rd date". Definitely not on the first date. Why not first date? Because if I'm having sex with someone for the first time it means he will be my boyfriend and we are going to be together (for awhile at least). And the first time I have sex with them I want to be able to spend the night and cuddle afterwards. I mean, basically I don't want to have sex with anyone who I can't feel comfortable spending the night with or cuddling.
> 
> So on the first date, it is just too soon to spend the night, have to get up and take a shower etc (I'm not bringing an overnight bag to a first date, lol). I'm not going to have sex then hop out of bed and drive home all disheveled late at night. I'm happy to do that later - after we are established as exclusive and are digging each other. At that point a quickie and hop out of bed and drive home is no biggie. But first date, no way. First time sex is awesome and deserve a lot of time (ie: overnight).
> 
> The other reason is exclusivity. I won't have sex without it. So usually a first date is not going to determine exclusivity, it's just too soon. Sometimes by 2nd or 3rd date it can be established.
> 
> If I have a 3rd date and I'm still not feeling it for whatever reason, I know it's not going to happen at all.
> 
> I am definitely always hoping it will happen (by 2nd or 3rd) and I am talking to my date about sexy things and preferences and such, gauging how it might be between us.
> 
> I am not currently dating or having sex with anyone so my answer is just making me depressed.
> 
> (ps...first date make out and mash is definitely my preference, though!)


Well look who it is! Good to see you still here! Sorry that you aren't currently smashing with a twenty-something male underwear model!

You certainly align with most of the other lady daters posting @Faithful Wife, and of course confirm what most of the men here acknowledge as our common experience as well.

And to be clear, I do not fault, have any criticism for women who prefer to wait. If anything I was curious if people could/would share what they are waiting for. In the thread that spawned this one, I just think we had two people that were not clear on communicating expectations and desire. It was the man in question, who was not making the moves within the woman's desired timeframe.

I think one of the other factors that we are aren't really talking about; because there are those of us who know very well how the modern dating ecosystem works, and there are those of us in very well established, marriages or LTR's to whom that environment is completely alien, and frankly, I'm glad for those folks. 

In the case of online dating, or hell, I'd argue any dating; the first time you meet is absolutely not the first time you are exposed to, or have contact with that person. Women in particular, do want some sense of 'rapport' prior to getting together with a man. They already know what he looks like, so there is at least a fundamental sense of "more, yes, please." or "No thank you." and there undoubtedly has been a handful of texts or phone calls. One of my other dating 'rules' along those lines, was just ask for the date. I have no interest in being anyones pen pal.

My point is that it certainly isn't a blind event. So even for those first date intimate encounters, it's almost never a cold open where that is your first and only exposure to a person.


----------



## hamadryad

Here is another thing to consider.....

It's one thing to meet someone on a dating app, who you don't know from jack, and then there are others that perhaps you already have a rapport with....For example, let's say you have someone else that you have been doing business with that decides to get frisky one day and ask you out....That's a whole lot different from a random match on a dating app...I would think that the "clock" already started on the "get to know" phase with the person you were doing business with, or maybe you've met at a soccer game several times when your kids were playing ball...

That's why all these situations have different conditions...


----------



## DownByTheRiver

I'm well past dating, but when I was, I wouldn't even go out with a guy if I wasn't already attracted to him. I was very uncomfortable with that. So my read of a first official encounter like a date would be to read him. I might have attraction at first but maybe he says something offputting or that made me know I wouldn't be into him. 

I'd mostly already seen they guys around and had some acquaintance with them from hanging out the same places. There was a lot of one-night stands in the 70s, rather than a lot of dates. I had no rules for myself for when or if to sleep with them. If I wanted to sleep with them, I did. If I already knew I didn't want to sleep with them and they asked me on a real date or tried to pick me up, I said no.


----------



## LisaDiane

In Absentia said:


> I knew someone with a loooong memory would bring this up...  I said it depended on the circumstances. If I ever had sex on a first date, the lady had them...  or we just didn't had penetration... too graphic? You asked for it...


Lolol!!!! Just admit you are NOT really a gentleman!!


----------



## leftfield

I have been out of the dating market for over 2 decades, so I'm not going to get into timelines and how the market works today. The only thing I will say is that my wife and I waited until after marriage because of our faith. If for some reason, I every end up single and looking again. There is noway marriage will happen unless we are sexually compatible.


----------



## LisaDiane

hamadryad said:


> Here is another thing to consider.....
> 
> It's one thing to meet someone on a dating app, who you don't know from jack, and then there are others that perhaps you already have a rapport with....For example, let's say you have someone else that you have been doing business with that decides to get frisky one day and ask you out....That's a whole lot different from a random match on a dating app...I would think that the "clock" already started on the "get to know" phase with the person you were doing business with, or maybe you've met at a soccer game several times when your kids were playing ball...
> 
> That's why all these situations have different conditions...


What about if you've been talking to someone you meet online, and develop serious attraction and comfort with them before even meeting in person?

If you have sex on a first date, 3 months after talking online, is that REALLY sex on a "first date" at that point?


----------



## LisaDiane

Deejo said:


> Well look who it is! Good to see you still here! Sorry that you aren't currently smashing with a twenty-something male underwear model!
> 
> You certainly align with most of the other lady daters posting @Faithful Wife, and of course confirm what most of the men here acknowledge as our common experience as well.
> 
> And to be clear, I do not fault, have any criticism for women who prefer to wait. If anything I was curious if people could/would share what they are waiting for. In the thread that spawned this one, I just think we had two people that were not clear on communicating expectations and desire. It was the man in question, who was not making the moves within the woman's desired timeframe.
> 
> I think one of the other factors that we are aren't really talking about; because there are those of us who know very well how the modern dating ecosystem works, and there are those of us in very well established, marriages or LTR's to whom that environment is completely alien, and frankly, I'm glad for those folks.
> 
> In the case of online dating, or hell, I'd argue any dating; the first time you meet is absolutely not the first time you are exposed to, or have contact with that person. Women in particular, do want some sense of 'rapport' prior to getting together with a man. They already know what he looks like, so there is at least a fundamental sense of "more, yes, please." or "No thank you." and there undoubtedly has been a handful of texts or phone calls. One of my other dating 'rules' along those lines, was just ask for the date. I have no interest in being anyones pen pal.
> 
> My point is that it certainly isn't a blind event. So even for those first date intimate encounters, it's almost never a cold open where that is your first and only exposure to a person.


I posted my question before reading your comments here...Lol!!


----------



## DownByTheRiver

LisaDiane said:


> What about if you've been talking to someone you meet online, and develop serious attraction and comfort with them before even meeting in person?
> 
> If you have sex on a first date, 3 months after talking online, is that REALLY sex on a "first date" at that point?


I still think there is just something else that happens when you meet in person that just can't be conveyed online. Certainly FaceTime chats give you a better idea of the person and their body language and just their whole style. 

You can get yourself real worked up online, so worked up that you overlook about just stuff when you finally do meet. I just think it's a bad way to meet people because you can waste so much time and then one or two visits in person can burst your bubble for a huge myriad of reasons.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

joannacroc said:


> So I think it's a sort of monogamy vs. sex drive thing. I am a bit of serial monogamist. Not interested in sleeping with someone who is sleeping with other people. And to be sure I have the right person (at least for short-term) and want to continue seeing them, I would say I now tend to wait longer than 3 dates. I learned from previous boyfriends - you bond with people you sleep with, it's just a biological reality, and at 3 dates you really don't know a person, you just know what they want you to know. So I would say 3 dates minimum but probably longer. The weirdest dude I almost went on a date with recently started saying outright before 1st date that he wanted to have sex, basically, and I was equally blunt and just said, I was really looking forward to meeting him but wasn't down with that. Dodged a bullet there! I want to be sure it's my judgement choosing the person, not my hormones and how badly I need d^*) at that particular point in time. Sorry if that is overly crude.


I just know that that theory that you bond with people you have sex with does not apply to everyone. I know it firsthand. Sometimes sex is just sex and that's fine. As with everything, it's possible for everyone to be different. You just make your decisions accordingly. If you do bond with everyone you have sex with no matter what they're like, then you are definitely better off not having sex with them for a long time. That would be a formula for falling for a serial killer 😄


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Diana7 said:


> Must admit I fear for women who are happy to go off somewhere on their own with a guy they barely know to have sex. Talk about risk taking!! I mean what could possibly go wrong. 🤔😲🤦


It is risky and I got burned by it once. But it's less risky if they are a social acquaintance who no other people you know and are basically hanging out with the same crowd, but even that is no guarantee as I found out.

But nothing is as dangerous as meeting someone online and agreeing to Netflix and chill. Regardless whether you have sex with them or not, going someplace private with an online date early on is dangerous, whether that's going to your house or their house or going on a hike in the wilderness. Meet someplace public and take your own car.


----------



## Deejo

LisaDiane said:


> What about if you've been talking to someone you meet online, and develop serious attraction and comfort with them before even meeting in person?
> 
> If you have sex on a first date, 3 months after talking online, is that REALLY sex on a "first date" at that point?


That very scenario is what brought about my, "Ask for the date, after 3 points of contact." rule. Three just seems to come into the equation on a lot of this stuff. I used to travel a lot for business. This occurred nearly 9 years ago. Corresponded with a woman while on the road travelling. We texted, we talked on the phone. She even brought up sex during one of our phone conversations. It was a month before we could meet. In that time, she built up an entire concept of what, and who I was that she was attracted to. She had my profile pictures, which were accurate representations ... but ... when we did actually meet? It was a bust.

She definitely wasn't what I was expecting, and apparently I wasn't what she was expecting. I don't ever advocate building a relationship prior to actually laying eyes on someone.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Deejo said:


> I have no issue with women believing this should be the norm, and would be wise. But what they believe versus what actually happens, is what effectively prompted my post. As I, and most of the men who are in the dating game and have responded can attest; the belief that handful of dates, or a handful of weeks in knowing someone is insufficient time to engage in sex, is incorrect.
> 
> *I believe that it is indeed a feeling*. And if the 'feeling' is established; attraction, comfort, and safety, then the timing doesn't matter. Whether it is date #1 or date #10.


Maybe I'm not understanding you, but sexual chemistry is one feeling, and actually liking and respecting someone is a different feeling. We can easily have chemistry with someone we don't actually like or respect.

So sure, I can say if I have sexual chemistry with someone within 5 minutes of meeting. But how do you expect me to know if I actually like or respect the person in 5 minutes?

I get it that (some) men can still have sex without liking or respecting a woman and also without any need for exclusivity declared first. I also know other men who definitely don't want sex just because he's attracted, he also wants to like and respect her. For me personally, I would quickly walk away from a man who was ok with banging but didn't even like me or know if he liked me. 

A couple years ago I was dating a guy who I was extremely attracted to and we were getting it on great. But then on about the 6th date or so he made a racially charged statement about someone else, kind of under his breath but I heard it. That was it. Lost all attraction to him and knew this was someone I didn't like. These are the kinds of things we mean when we say we don't know someone well enough after just a couple of dates.


----------



## LisaDiane

Deejo said:


> That very scenario is what brought about my, "Ask for the date, after 3 points of contact." rule. Three just seems to come into the equation on a lot of this stuff. I used to travel a lot for business. This occurred nearly 9 years ago. Corresponded with a woman while on the road travelling. We texted, we talked on the phone. She even brought up sex during one of our phone conversations. It was a month before we could meet. In that time, she built up an entire concept of what, and who I was that she was attracted to. She had my profile pictures, which were accurate representations ... but ... when we did actually meet? It was a bust.
> 
> She definitely wasn't what I was expecting, and apparently I wasn't what she was expecting. I don't ever advocate building a relationship prior to actually laying eyes on someone.


I am having a hard time understanding how this would happen...did she look different? Is that what you mean about she wasn't what you were expecting?
Did you not feel sexually attracted to her when you were talking to her, like her personality?

I don't have much experience with new relationships, but I've never had a problem being attracted to a man's body once I was attracted to the man INSIDE it...Lol!!

The reason I brought this up was because I think, if you get to know eachother and develop attraction and comfort with eachother before you ever meet, it's different than someone you meet and only get a chance to start talking and getting to know eachother on your first date.

If you talk online or through texting or whatever, and then the attraction is there when you meet in person, why wait at all?


----------



## hamadryad

LisaDiane said:


> What about if you've been talking to someone you meet online, and develop serious attraction and comfort with them before even meeting in person?
> 
> If you have sex on a first date, 3 months after talking online, is that REALLY sex on a "first date" at that point?


I dunno, LD

It's an area where I have zero experience(OLD), so it's hard to comment about it...

I would think it may be possible to be catfished, there.? I still say, no matter how well you click on line. an online situation isn't nearly like someone that you met and had dealings with(outside of a relationship), that then turns into a R,,,,You know that person pretty well...You spoke to them numerous times, you met face to face, and maybe even "friend hugged"....whatever...or even a situation like maybe a cousins friend that you met numerous times at functions, etc, once they know you are available, then they see what's up..etc,,


----------



## Deejo

LisaDiane said:


> I am having a hard time understanding how this would happen...did she look different? Is that what you mean about she wasn't what you were expecting?
> Did you not feel sexually attracted to her when you were talking to her, like her personality?
> 
> I don't have much experience with new relationships, but I've never had a problem being attracted to a man's body once I was attracted to the man INSIDE it...Lol!!
> 
> The reason I brought this up was because I think, if you get to know eachother and develop attraction and comfort with eachother before you ever meet, it's different than someone you meet and only get a chance to start talking and getting to know eachother on your first date.
> 
> If you talk online or through texting or whatever, and then the attraction is there when you meet in person, why wait at all?


Rule #2 in online dating. Never connect with someone that does not include a full body shot that is less than 1 year old.
Rule #5 'Fit and Athletic' is intended as a body description, not a goal or personal belief.

I can't account for her lack of attraction. Just my speculation that she somehow imagined me as different, and the reality didn't line up. Or, she already had other sticks in the fire, and decided I wasn't as good as those for making s'mores.


----------



## LisaDiane

hamadryad said:


> I dunno, LD
> 
> It's an area where I have zero experience(OLD), so it's hard to comment about it...
> 
> I would think it may be possible to be catfished, there.? I still say, no matter how well you click on line. an online situation isn't nearly like someone that you met and had dealings with(outside of a relationship), that then turns into a R,,,,You know that person pretty well...You spoke to them numerous times, you met face to face, and maybe even "friend hugged"....whatever...or even a situation like maybe a cousins friend that you met numerous times at functions, etc, once they know you are available, then they see what's up..etc,,


Sure, I can see what you mean, and you are right kind of. But I'm talking in the best situation, when you have connected and they ARE real, and you do feel like you know them before your first date.

I think I would jump his bones!!!! Lol!! 

Also, in my experience, I was living for months with my EX before his mask started to slip...so in a way, he "catfished" me, even after I had vetted him as much as you can with anyone, and lived with him. And I still didn't even realize the extent of his deception for YEARS.


----------



## Deejo

Faithful Wife said:


> Maybe I'm not understanding you, but sexual chemistry is one feeling, and actually liking and respecting someone is a different feeling. We can easily have chemistry with someone we don't actually like or respect.
> 
> So sure, I can say if I have sexual chemistry with someone within 5 minutes of meeting. But how do you expect me to know if I actually like or respect the person in 5 minutes?
> 
> I get it that (some) men can still have sex without liking or respecting a woman and also without any need for exclusivity declared first. I also know other men who definitely don't want sex just because he's attracted, he also wants to like and respect her. For me personally, I would quickly walk away from a man who was ok with banging but didn't even like me or know if he liked me.
> 
> A couple years ago I was dating a guy who I was extremely attracted to and we were getting it on great. But then on about the 6th date or so he made a racially charged statement about someone else, kind of under his breath but I heard it. That was it. Lost all attraction to him and knew this was someone I didn't like. These are the kinds of things we mean when we say we don't know someone well enough after just a couple of dates.



Well sure, but generally speaking, everyone is going to have on their 'party best' in either scenario, if they just want to get laid, or they do want to build something stable and long term. Which takes us back to the 'what is your threshold?' question. I don't think we would argue that 'time reveals all'. I had already fallen in love with, and was fully invested in MR (wife #2 for those who are unaware) by the time it became apparent that she had BPD. And even in knowing, I still tried to navigate it. 

In my opinion, this is also what 'info dump dating' is for. It is for qualification or disqualification purposes. For instance, I disclose that I am twice divorced, knowing full well, unless someone is already into me, that can easily be a disqualifying event. So, that makes sense to me.

I'm trying to understand you. Are you saying that out of the Desire, Comfort, Safety triad you only need desire? Because based upon what you posted above, it still sounds like you want all 3 to be firmly in place.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Three dates sounds reasonable I suppose. That in my single days was a bit much though. Beyond HS, I almost exclusively dated women who made it obvious they were interested and we had sex no later than the second date, say 90%. Many were first daters. 

I viewed many dates as having sex was the date activity I suppose. 

I'm sure it would be different now, but no longer than third date would be my current thinking. But I only date my DW, so couldn't say for sure.


----------



## Diana7

Deejo said:


> Rule #2 in online dating. Never connect with someone that does not include a full body shot that is less than 1 year old.
> Rule #5 'Fit and Athletic' is intended as a body description, not a goal or personal belief.
> 
> I can't account for her lack of attraction. Just my speculation that she somehow imagined me as different, and the reality didn't line up. Or, she already had other sticks in the fire, and decided I wasn't as good as those for making s'mores.


I never even saw a photo at all before I connected with my now husband of 16 years. I still knew that I really wanted to meet him based on the emails we had sent to and fro and based on his introduction on the dating site. 
He couldn't get a photo to upload for a few days.


----------



## LisaDiane

All these rules and different expectations are confusing!!!

Maybe I should keep hiding in my house until I can figure it all out...Lol!!


----------



## heartsbeating

Diana7 said:


> I never even saw a photo at all before I connected with my now husband of 16 years. I still knew that I really wanted to meet him based on the emails we had sent to and fro and based on his introduction on the dating site.
> He couldn't get a photo to upload for a few days.


Batman and I didn’t know what one another looked like either. Hadn’t even thought to describe ourselves. We had developed rapport and attraction through voice and personality over the phone and then arranged to casually meet at a bar/club. It wasn’t a date. I told him what I’d be wearing so he’d know it was me. He didn’t run the other way, so we were off to a good start. I kid. But if the mutual physical attraction wasn’t there, neither of us would have persisted. However, that first meeting was very brief, had barely said hello when he saw me being escorted out by an undercover cop ‘coz you know I’m all about making a good first impression. We bumped into each other again shortly after and the sparks were there. We continued talking over the phone, met up again casually, kissed each others faces off, then he lined up our first date. If the visual appeal and other in-person characteristics hadn’t caused interest between us though, we would have moved on. 

I can’t imagine going off a photo amongst a parade of photos, initially. And having up one’s own photos for others to initially go by. It’s such a foreign concept to me. However, no doubt it’s a good way for many.


----------



## Diana7

heartsbeating said:


> Batman and I didn’t know what one another looked like either. Hadn’t even thought to describe ourselves. We had developed rapport and attraction through voice and personality over the phone and then arranged to casually meet at a bar/club. It wasn’t a date. I told him what I’d be wearing so he’d know it was me. He didn’t run the other way, so we were off to a good start. I kid. But if the mutual physical attraction wasn’t there, neither of us would have persisted. However, that first meeting was very brief, had barely said hello when he saw me being escorted out by an undercover cop ‘coz you know I’m all about making a good first impression. We bumped into each other again shortly after and the sparks were there. We continued talking over the phone, met up again casually, kissed each others faces off, then he lined up our first date. If the visual appeal and other in-person characteristics hadn’t caused interest between us though, we would have moved on.
> 
> I can’t imagine going off a photo amongst a parade of photos, initially. And having up one’s own photos for others to initially go by. It’s such a foreign concept to me. However, no doubt it’s a good way for many.


Yes, once we met I felt that chemistry. We had already exchanged dozens of emails by then.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Deejo said:


> Rule #2 in online dating. Never connect with someone that does not include a full body shot that is less than 1 year old.
> Rule #5 'Fit and Athletic' is intended as a body description, not a goal or personal belief.
> 
> I can't account for her lack of attraction. Just my speculation that she somehow imagined me as different, and the reality didn't line up. Or, she already had other sticks in the fire, and decided I wasn't as good as those for making s'mores.


I think everybody fills the voids they don't know about a person they meet online or meet for the first time in person with their projection of what their ideal person is like, being hopeful. Then they discover no, that's not the person in their head, or they just don't like something about them in person. Like, if it were me, I could get in deep online but then if I met the person and they weren't confident and were kind of a dork, I'd lose interest in romance right away. If you think about people you've known in the past that on paper or online might seem good but then think about something they do in real life that's not attractive to you, that's what happens.

I think of an example. A guy I used to work with would look okay to me online, theoretically, when he was on his best behavior certainly, but then probably within the first two hours of meeting, I'd find out he was one of those "only joking" guys who thinks he's being ironic and witty when he's just being an insulting jackass.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Diana7 said:


> Ahh lovely story🥰
> 
> As for if you ever dated again, you may have to stick to your boundaries and values even if the number of women who felt the same was greatly reduced.
> 
> My choice was very small.


You very well could be right, Diana. I certainly hope it never comes to pass, but if it did… maybe I do it the same way as when I was 22? Don’t know.

small story (but not a t/j).

So my wife convinced me to start having sex 4 weeks into dating. Physically, I loved it (obviously) but in all honesty, something felt “off” or uncomfortable. Couldn’t place the feeling. I started to notice my wife looking “off” or sad about 2 months into us dating.

I remember taking her out to one of our favorite spots one night. I made sure to get us a table far away from everyone else so we could be alone, but I also needed a drink to calm my nerves. 😂 she was looking down all evening. Not making eye contact with me. Her hands were actually trembling on the table where we were sitting. I remember taking her hand to try and calm her. I then told her that I had something to say. She said she also wanted to talk to me about something - but deferred to me to go first.

I actually said that I wasn’t ready for sex yet and I think we should stop. Her face immediately grew worried and she started to cry, so I said, “oh no! I still want to date you exclusively!!!! I still want you as my girlfriend! I just think we should take a step back. I feel…. I don’t know. Not ready.”

her Face immediately changed. She started to smile really big…. But she kept crying anyway. 😂. I then asked her what she wanted to talk to me about, and she says, “the same thing!” 😂


sooooo…. We both weren’t emotionally ready. Years later I kinda put it together in my head that I had strong feelings for my wife, but I wasn’t in love with her yet, and I think that was my mental block. I need to ask her sometime what was hers. I never did ask her.

so we continued to date and do the same things we did everyday just without the sex. It was relaxed and very natural feeling. No pressure….. and I’d say 1 more month went by before we told each other that we loved each other and the sex started right back up. This time though it felt much better and felt “correct”.


would I be the same way in a hypothetical situation at 42 years old and another 20 years of life experiences? I don’t know. Kind of a fun thought experiment. I can’t honestly say I know what I would do in that situation. Turns out that physically My body is always game for sex, but emotionally I needed to be in love to really enjoy it.


----------



## Diana7

LATERILUS79 said:


> You very well could be right, Diana. I certainly hope it never comes to pass, but if it did… maybe I do it the same way as when I was 22? Don’t know.
> 
> small story (but not a t/j).
> 
> So my wife convinced me to start having sex 4 weeks into dating. Physically, I loved it (obviously) but in all honesty, something felt “off” or uncomfortable. Couldn’t place the feeling. I started to notice my wife looking “off” or sad about 2 months into us dating.
> 
> I remember taking her out to one of our favorite spots one night. I made sure to get us a table far away from everyone else so we could be alone, but I also needed a drink to calm my nerves. 😂 she was looking down all evening. Not making eye contact with me. Her hands were actually trembling on the table where we were sitting. I remember taking her hand to try and calm her. I then told her that I had something to say. She said she also wanted to talk to me about something - but deferred to me to go first.
> 
> I actually said that I wasn’t ready for sex yet and I think we should stop. Her face immediately grew worried and she started to cry, so I said, “oh no! I still want to date you exclusively!!!! I still want you as my girlfriend! I just think we should take a step back. I feel…. I don’t know. Not ready.”
> 
> her Face immediately changed. She started to smile really big…. But she kept crying anyway. 😂. I then asked her what she wanted to talk to me about, and she says, “the same thing!” 😂
> 
> 
> sooooo…. We both weren’t emotionally ready. Years later I kinda put it together in my head that I had strong feelings for my wife, but I wasn’t in love with her yet, and I think that was my mental block. I need to ask her sometime what was hers. I never did ask her.
> 
> so we continued to date and do the same things we did everyday just without the sex. It was relaxed and very natural feeling. No pressure….. and I’d say 1 more month went by before we told each other that we loved each other and the sex started right back up. This time though it felt much better and felt “correct”.
> 
> 
> would I be the same way in a hypothetical situation at 42 years old and another 20 years of life experiences? I don’t know. Kind of a fun thought experiment. I can’t honestly say I know what I would do in that situation. Turns out that physically My body is always game for sex, but emotionally I needed to be in love to really enjoy it.


I agree. Having sex with a person you love is far superior.


----------



## PieceOfSky

heartsbeating said:


> ^ to add, after thought, I recognize that I may have chosen to view the mentioned interactions through a certain lens and that there may be another (male) way of perceiving this that I haven't.


We males are all different of course, and some of our perspectives change over time.

I think I understood what your view is of their motivations and the value they placed on you and your would-be experience. Fwiw, it rings true to me, based on a few eerily similar experiences. Strong desire, held back by wanting it to be a good experience for her with no regrets — entirely possible.


----------



## TXTrini

Deejo said:


> Rule #2 in online dating. Never connect with someone that does not include a full body shot that is less than 1 year old.
> Rule #5 'Fit and Athletic' is intended as a body description, not a goal or personal belief.
> 
> I can't account for her lack of attraction. Just my speculation that she somehow imagined me as different, and the reality didn't line up. Or, she already had other sticks in the fire, and decided I wasn't as good as those for making s'mores.


I never understood why people couldn't just be honest. It makes zero sense, what do they think will happen when you meet in person? For people who says looks don't matter at all, good for you. Misrepresenting yourself is lying, plain and simple and makes people wonder what else you're lying about.

Age was important to me, I wanted someone I didn't have to explain every joke/reference and who wouldn't die when things got interesting.

Lots of men did this OLD. Some guys sported pics that looked like they were taken in the 80's, or looked 20yrs older than they claimed (think Keith Richards). Some younger guys lied they were older which was harder to spot since I've met some guys in their 20's that looked late 30's. Drinking/smoking/living a hard lifestyle really takes a toll, not just on appearance but outlook.



LisaDiane said:


> All these rules and different expectations are confusing!!!
> 
> Maybe I should keep hiding in my house until I can figure it all out...Lol!!


Forget about the rules. Be yourself, the people who don't respond are not a good match, so no love lost. You won't and don't need to appeal to everyone unless that's your thing.


----------



## Diana7

LATERILUS79 said:


> You very well could be right, Diana. I certainly hope it never comes to pass, but if it did… maybe I do it the same way as when I was 22? Don’t know.
> 
> small story (but not a t/j).
> 
> So my wife convinced me to start having sex 4 weeks into dating. Physically, I loved it (obviously) but in all honesty, something felt “off” or uncomfortable. Couldn’t place the feeling. I started to notice my wife looking “off” or sad about 2 months into us dating.
> 
> I remember taking her out to one of our favorite spots one night. I made sure to get us a table far away from everyone else so we could be alone, but I also needed a drink to calm my nerves. 😂 she was looking down all evening. Not making eye contact with me. Her hands were actually trembling on the table where we were sitting. I remember taking her hand to try and calm her. I then told her that I had something to say. She said she also wanted to talk to me about something - but deferred to me to go first.
> 
> I actually said that I wasn’t ready for sex yet and I think we should stop. Her face immediately grew worried and she started to cry, so I said, “oh no! I still want to date you exclusively!!!! I still want you as my girlfriend! I just think we should take a step back. I feel…. I don’t know. Not ready.”
> 
> her Face immediately changed. She started to smile really big…. But she kept crying anyway. 😂. I then asked her what she wanted to talk to me about, and she says, “the same thing!” 😂
> 
> 
> sooooo…. We both weren’t emotionally ready. Years later I kinda put it together in my head that I had strong feelings for my wife, but I wasn’t in love with her yet, and I think that was my mental block. I need to ask her sometime what was hers. I never did ask her.
> 
> so we continued to date and do the same things we did everyday just without the sex. It was relaxed and very natural feeling. No pressure….. and I’d say 1 more month went by before we told each other that we loved each other and the sex started right back up. This time though it felt much better and felt “correct”.
> 
> 
> would I be the same way in a hypothetical situation at 42 years old and another 20 years of life experiences? I don’t know. Kind of a fun thought experiment. I can’t honestly say I know what I would do in that situation. Turns out that physically My body is always game for sex, but emotionally I needed to be in love to really enjoy it.


When I got to dating again in my late 40's after my long first marriage ended, my standards or criteria or whatever you want to call them were far stronger than the first time round. This made the pool of men I would ever find a husband from even smaller because general values had gone down so much in those 30 or so years.
I read on here about sex after 1, 2 or 3 dates and I realize how far I am from accepting or wanting that, but I wont be dating again if my husband dies before me anyway thankfully.


----------



## In Absentia

LisaDiane said:


> Lolol!!!! Just admit you are NOT really a gentleman!!


I am a gentleman, but if somebody jumps on me...


----------



## MarmiteC

LisaDiane said:


> Sure, I can see what you mean, and you are right kind of. But I'm talking in the best situation, when you have connected and they ARE real, and you do feel like you know them before your first date.
> 
> I think I would jump his bones!!!! Lol!!


I'm in an LDR relationship with someone I met online. We'd spent alot of time on video calls prior to finally meeting in person. Those calls weren't just focussed time where someone can present their best self only, sometimes the camera was on while we went about chores etc, to give a sense of normality.
I nearly crashed the car on the way home after picking him up from the airport, that was the longest 3hr drive ever....


----------



## Deejo

LisaDiane said:


> All these rules and different expectations are confusing!!!
> 
> Maybe I should keep hiding in my house until I can figure it all out...Lol!!


The rules are all my personal rules. Just for me. Although ... I do very frequently recommend guidelines to both men and women when asked. Sounds like another new thread!


----------



## Deejo

Diana7 said:


> I agree. Having sex with a person you love is far superior.


Respectfully, how do you know? 

I say that having believed the same thing.

Until I discovered otherwise.


----------



## Numb26

Deejo said:


> Respectfully, how do you know?
> 
> I say that having believed the same thing.
> 
> Until I discovered otherwise.


It was a great discovery I made too!


----------



## LATERILUS79

Deejo said:


> Respectfully, how do you know?
> 
> I say that having believed the same thing.
> 
> Until I discovered otherwise.


I think this is a very good question. I only have 1 data point to go by. I just know for myself that things didn’t feel right until I was in love with my wife.

it would be ridiculous though for me to say that everyone would be like that. In addition, if my wife and I broke up tomorrow, I have no idea if I would date and wait until I was in love again or become crazy with lust and sleep with a bunch of women. It’s very hard for me to predict.


----------



## Deejo

heartsbeating said:


> Batman and I didn’t know what one another looked like either. Hadn’t even thought to describe ourselves. We had developed rapport and attraction through voice and personality over the phone and then arranged to casually meet at a bar/club. It wasn’t a date. I told him what I’d be wearing so he’d know it was me. He didn’t run the other way, so we were off to a good start. I kid. But if the mutual physical attraction wasn’t there, neither of us would have persisted. However, that first meeting was very brief, had barely said hello when he saw me being escorted out by an undercover cop ‘coz you know I’m all about making a good first impression. We bumped into each other again shortly after and the sparks were there. We continued talking over the phone, met up again casually, kissed each others faces off, then he lined up our first date. If the visual appeal and other in-person characteristics hadn’t caused interest between us though, we would have moved on.
> 
> I can’t imagine going off a photo amongst a parade of photos, initially. And having up one’s own photos for others to initially go by. It’s such a foreign concept to me. However, no doubt it’s a good way for many.


So ... ushered away by the cops. After meeting Batman ...
You REALLY ARE a cat burglar aren't you? 
All makes perfect sense.


----------



## Diana7

Deejo said:


> Respectfully, how do you know?
> 
> I say that having believed the same thing.
> 
> Until I discovered otherwise.


Having talked to people who know. 
I also know that for me having sex with a virtual stranger would hold no appeal at all. 

Sex as an expression of love and committment is far from being just a physical act.


----------



## Deejo

Numb26 said:


> It was a great discovery I made too!





LATERILUS79 said:


> I think this is a very good question. I only have 1 data point to go by. I just know for myself that things didn’t feel right until I was in love with my wife.
> 
> it would be ridiculous though for me to say that everyone would be like that. In addition, if my wife and I broke up tomorrow, I have no idea if I would date and wait until I was in love again or become crazy with lust and sleep with a bunch of women. It’s very hard for me to predict.


We're migrating off-topic, but hell, it's my thread ...

I have no other way to explain it other than I went through a transformation after my first marriage went down in flames. Having been in a sexless marriage, (but not always an unloving one), some of the biggest discoveries and changes for me had to do with how I regarded sex, and particularly, learning about how women regard and respond to sex.

I've posted about most of it years ago, what I learned I was completely stunned by.

And without a doubt, the best sex of my life was NOT with a woman I loved. The other best sex of my life was with NEITHER of my wives, but with a woman I did love.

It's important to acknowledge that married sex was by no means bad. It simply was never as adventurous, wildly enthusiastic, and utterly unhinged as it was in either of those other relationships.

I have no ill will or criticism for people that have been having sex with the same partner for decades, and I'm certainly not suggesting you should look for other options. I truly respect that bond. But ... it was indeed a surprise to me, believing the narrative that being in love and married would yield the best sex of my life, was sort of just another fairy tale ... for me. And I wouldn't have known it, had I not made those choices I did back around 2011.


----------



## Diana7

Deejo said:


> We're migrating off-topic, but hell, it's my thread ...
> 
> I have no other way to explain it other than I went through a transformation after my first marriage went down in flames. Having been in a sexless marriage, (but not always an unloving one), some of the biggest discoveries and changes for me had to do with how I regarded sex, and particularly, learning about how women regard and respond to sex.
> 
> I've posted about most of it years ago, what I learned I was completely stunned by.
> 
> And without a doubt, the best sex of my life was NOT with a woman I loved. The other best sex of my life was with NEITHER of my wives, but with a woman I did love.
> 
> It's important to acknowledge that married sex was by no means bad. It simply was never as adventurous, wildly enthusiastic, and utterly unhinged as it was in either of those other relationships.
> 
> I have no ill will or criticism for people that have been having sex with the same partner for decades, and I'm certainly not suggesting you should look for other options. I truly respect that bond. But ... it was indeed a surprise to me, believing the narrative that being in love and married would yield the best sex of my life, was sort of just another fairy tale ... for me. And I wouldn't have known it, had I not made those choices I did back around 2011.


You said you did love that person. I was comparing sex within a loving relationship with casual sex. 
Casual sex is purely physical. Sex with a person you love is about so much more. Emotional and spiritual. 

Like comparing a piece of toast with a three course meal.


----------



## TXTrini

Deejo said:


> We're migrating off-topic, but hell, it's my thread ...
> 
> I have no other way to explain it other than I went through a transformation after my first marriage went down in flames. Having been in a sexless marriage, (but not always an unloving one), some of the biggest discoveries and changes for me had to do with how I regarded sex, and particularly, learning about how women regard and respond to sex.
> 
> I've posted about most of it years ago, what I learned I was completely stunned by.
> 
> And without a doubt, the best sex of my life was NOT with a woman I loved. The other best sex of my life was with NEITHER of my wives, but with a woman I did love.
> 
> It's important to acknowledge that married sex was by no means bad. It simply was never as adventurous, wildly enthusiastic, and utterly unhinged as it was in either of those other relationships.
> 
> I have no ill will or criticism for people that have been having sex with the same partner for decades, and I'm certainly not suggesting you should look for other options. I truly respect that bond. But ... it was indeed a surprise to me, believing the narrative that being in love and married would yield the best sex of my life, was sort of just another fairy tale ... for me. And I wouldn't have known it, had I not made those choices I did back around 2011.


I also came from a sexless marriage and have had the opportunity to test loveless and in-love sex.

It started off pretty damned hot with my bf from the get-go, but since we've been in love and become more familiar with each other, it so much more. I never knew it could be this way. 

Whereas, with the "test subject" (I refuse to feel guilty referring to him that way he was 100% jackass) it was purely mechanical and underwhelming. However, it served a purpose, to show me I still got it, my ex was a dud.


----------



## Livvie

Diana7 said:


> You said you did love that person. I was comparing sex within a loving relationship with casual sex.
> Casual sex is purely physical. Sex with a person you love is about so much more. Emotional and spiritual.
> 
> Like comparing a piece of toast with a three course meal.


You don’t to dictate this for others though.

Other people have life experiences differently than you and they VERY WELL MIGHT be better than what you have ever experienced. 

I have never had a one night stand or casual sex but I know a man I would seriously consider having one with and I highly suspect it would be mind blowing _in a way_ I've never experienced. 

You can't imagine all there is to experience in the universe and most certainly don't get to qualify it (toast v. meal) for everyone in the world.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Deejo said:


> We're migrating off-topic, but hell, it's my thread ...
> 
> I have no other way to explain it other than I went through a transformation after my first marriage went down in flames. Having been in a sexless marriage, (but not always an unloving one), some of the biggest discoveries and changes for me had to do with how I regarded sex, and particularly, learning about how women regard and respond to sex.
> 
> I've posted about most of it years ago, what I learned I was completely stunned by.
> 
> And without a doubt, the best sex of my life was NOT with a woman I loved. The other best sex of my life was with NEITHER of my wives, but with a woman I did love.
> 
> It's important to acknowledge that married sex was by no means bad. It simply was never as adventurous, wildly enthusiastic, and utterly unhinged as it was in either of those other relationships.
> 
> I have no ill will or criticism for people that have been having sex with the same partner for decades, and I'm certainly not suggesting you should look for other options. I truly respect that bond. But ... it was indeed a surprise to me, believing the narrative that being in love and married would yield the best sex of my life, was sort of just another fairy tale ... for me. And I wouldn't have known it, had I not made those choices I did back around 2011.


No offense taken, Deejo. I find this topic fascinating. I’m more adventurous than my wife. I’ve come to grips that there are just certain things I will most likely never get to do in my life time. Maybe ignorance is bliss? Lol. Hell if I know.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Deejo, can you direct me to your threads about this subject before? Sorry for the t/j


----------



## heartsbeating

Deejo said:


> I have no ill will or criticism for people that have been having sex with the same partner for decades, and I'm certainly not suggesting you should look for other options. I truly respect that bond. But ...


I don’t take these topics or your posts as criticism of long-term sexual relationships at all. I just view them as different life experiences shared as discussion.


----------



## Numb26

Deejo said:


> We're migrating off-topic, but hell, it's my thread ...
> 
> I have no other way to explain it other than I went through a transformation after my first marriage went down in flames. Having been in a sexless marriage, (but not always an unloving one), some of the biggest discoveries and changes for me had to do with how I regarded sex, and particularly, learning about how women regard and respond to sex.
> 
> I've posted about most of it years ago, what I learned I was completely stunned by.
> 
> And without a doubt, the best sex of my life was NOT with a woman I loved. The other best sex of my life was with NEITHER of my wives, but with a woman I did love.
> 
> It's important to acknowledge that married sex was by no means bad. It simply was never as adventurous, wildly enthusiastic, and utterly unhinged as it was in either of those other relationships.
> 
> I have no ill will or criticism for people that have been having sex with the same partner for decades, and I'm certainly not suggesting you should look for other options. I truly respect that bond. But ... it was indeed a surprise to me, believing the narrative that being in love and married would yield the best sex of my life, was sort of just another fairy tale ... for me. And I wouldn't have known it, had I not made those choices I did back around 2011.


I never realized how scripted and methodical my relationship sex was until I left


----------



## ccpowerslave

Re: monotony it does take two to tango. I have found that if I am bringing things my wife will usually try them and sometimes she even likes it and it becomes a regular thing. She rarely comes up with new things but will sometimes take something I’m bringing and twist it so it’s better for her, which is awesome.


----------



## LisaDiane

Deejo said:


> We're migrating off-topic, but hell, it's my thread ...
> 
> I have no other way to explain it other than I went through a transformation after my first marriage went down in flames. Having been in a sexless marriage, (but not always an unloving one), some of the biggest discoveries and changes for me had to do with how I regarded sex, and particularly, learning about how women regard and respond to sex.
> 
> I've posted about most of it years ago, what I learned I was completely stunned by.
> 
> *And without a doubt, the best sex of my life was NOT with a woman I loved.* The other best sex of my life was with NEITHER of my wives, but with a woman I did love.
> 
> It's important to acknowledge that married sex was by no means bad. It simply was never as adventurous, wildly enthusiastic, and utterly unhinged as it was in either of those other relationships.
> 
> I have no ill will or criticism for people that have been having sex with the same partner for decades, and I'm certainly not suggesting you should look for other options. I truly respect that bond. But ... it was indeed a surprise to me, believing the narrative that being in love and married would yield the best sex of my life, was sort of just another fairy tale ... for me. And I wouldn't have known it, had I not made those choices I did back around 2011.


I wonder if it was the best sex of her life too, or if she thinks back on it now thinking it would have been better with love.


----------



## LisaDiane

Diana7 said:


> Having talked to people who know.
> I also know that for me having sex with a virtual stranger would hold no appeal at all.
> 
> Sex as an expression of love and committment is far from being just a physical act.


For YOU.


----------



## heartsbeating

TXTrini said:


> For people who says looks don't matter at all, good for you.


I don't know if this was intended at some posts here. If it was related at all to the post I made about not knowing what each other looked like before meeting, I wanted to clarify something. When I write that, it kinda makes me chuckle more from a forehead slapping 'why did we not think to at least describe ourselves...' I mean, it worked out, cool, BUT it's not that looks don't matter to either of us. They do. It wasn't from a place of 'looks don't matter as we dig each others personality/voices what-have-you' ...and at the point that we met, I don't know that either of us were thinking too far ahead that this could be someone we'd be dating. While it was an evolving attraction via the phone (not for months or anything, likely once a week for a few weeks, I can't really remember), which then led to along the lines of 'Will you be at that venue Thursday night? ...I'll be there, it'd be cool to meet...' Anyway, as mentioned, if the mutual physical attraction and other in-person 'qualifiers' weren't there, neither of us would have continued with the way that it unfolded. Does that make sense? I do think mutual physical attraction is important - at least, to Batman and I it is. Alongside other aspects and characteristics. Nothing particularly unique in that sense of dating. Anyway, I hope that makes sense.


----------



## Deejo

Diana7 said:


> You said you did love that person. I was comparing sex within a loving relationship with casual sex.
> Casual sex is purely physical. Sex with a person you love is about so much more. Emotional and spiritual.
> 
> Like comparing a piece of toast with a three course meal.


I cannot disagree. I've certainly never had sex with someone I didn't care about. I don't believe I could have sex with someone I didn't care about.


----------



## A18S37K14H18

Deejo said:


> So, what is your criteria and timeframe surrounding getting busy?


I don't have a fixed amount of time or a fixed number of dates. It's been different for different men I've dated. I've never had sex on or after the first date, but I have quickly after that a few times.

I've never had sex until the STD tests come back that we share with each other though.

I can't fathom folks having sex on the first date before seeing their test results together, but that's just me.


----------



## Diana7

LisaDiane said:


> For YOU.


For many.


----------



## Livvie

Diana7 said:


> For many.


So?

And also not for many.


----------



## Enigma32

An orgasm is a physiological response to certain stimuli. A person cannot help when he or she achieves orgasm and this has even happened to people who were victims of sex crimes. It sounds good to say that sex with someone you love is better, and maybe mentally or emotionally it is, but there is nothing magical about a physiological response to being stimulated. Someone need not be our soulmate to make us reach orgasm.


----------



## Diana7

Enigma32 said:


> An orgasm is a physiological response to certain stimuli. A person cannot help when he or she achieves orgasm and this has even happened to people who were victims of sex crimes. It sounds good to say that sex with someone you love is better, and maybe mentally or emotionally it is, but there is nothing magical about a physiological response to being stimulated. Someone need not be our soulmate to make us reach orgasm.


Sex is about so much more than as orgasm.


----------



## Lila

Deejo said:


> So, what is your criteria and timeframe surrounding getting busy? And why does it seem to touch a nerve if you have a timeframe, that a man may have one too?



I have made a lot of mistakes since my divorce 3 years ago. One of those was dating without a relationship goal (whether casual or long term). Looking back, I made the best decisions with regards to criteria and timeframe for sex soon after my divorce when I was dead set on finding the next Mr. Lila. Timing was all wrong, as I was no where near healed from my divorce to start dating long term, but I had the right criteria and boundaries. 

Things went off the rails after I healed from the divorce and started dating. I listened to the gurus and dated without purpose or expectations. When it came to sex, I followed the 3-5 date rule instead of my ball-bearing long term relationship rules, and ended up with bad experiences. Thankfully not many but they are there and they now play a significant role in when I choose to have sex. 

Nowadays it's a combination of having an emotional connection and trust, being attracted, having compatibility in all areas of importance (including sex) AND feeling (because we can never be certain) that we're both on the same page regarding relationship status (monogamous and exclusive) and our future goals (long term domestic partner/marriage). If it's not all of the above, then it's a no. 

Based on past experience, it's about 2-3 months. For background, I don't bond over text and actually find it annoying and distracting. I bond in person (Quality Time is my love language). Without a connection, out of sight, out of mind. Probably reason #1 why I fail miserably at OLD.


----------



## Lila

Deejo said:


> I am of the belief, and although some will no doubt claim counter, that the overwhelming majority of women, I daresay all, know by the end of the first date, whether or not they want to sleep with that man.


I am sure this happens with men but the older I get (and so does my demographic of dating partners), the less likely I feel like I want to have sex with the guy. And before anyone says it's hormones.....nope, trust me the sexual desire is as high as ever.


----------



## Diana7

Lila said:


> I have made a lot of mistakes since my divorce 3 years ago. One of those was dating without a relationship goal (whether casual or long term). Looking back, I made the best decisions with regards to criteria and timeframe for sex soon after my divorce when I was dead set on finding the next Mr. Lila. Timing was all wrong, as I was no where near healed from my divorce to start dating long term, but I had the right criteria and boundaries.
> 
> Things went off the rails after I healed from the divorce and started dating. I listened to the gurus and dated without purpose or expectations. When it came to sex, I followed the 3-5 date rule instead of my ball-bearing long term relationship rules, and ended up with bad experiences. Thankfully not many but they are there and they now play a significant role in when I choose to have sex.
> 
> Nowadays it's a combination of having an emotional connection and trust, being attracted, having compatibility in all areas of importance (including sex) AND feeling (because we can never be certain) that we're both on the same page regarding relationship status (monogamous and exclusive) and our future goals (long term domestic partner/marriage). If it's not all of the above, then it's a no.
> 
> Based on past experience, it's about 2-3 months. For background, I don't bond over text and actually find it annoying and distracting. I bond in person (Quality Time is my love language). Without a connection, out of sight, out of mind. Probably reason #1 why I fail miserably at OLD.


You make a good point Lila when you say we need to know what our long term aim is in dating.
If it's just to have lots of casual sex then our criteria isn't going to be high. We probably won't be interested in dating anyone who wants to wait before having sex, even if it's just a few weeks. 
For me dating again after my marriage ended was always 100% to find a marriage partner so my criteria was very strict and I had no interest in jumping into bed asap.


----------



## LisaDiane

Lila said:


> I am sure this happens with men but the older I get (and so does my demographic of dating partners), the less likely I feel like I want to have sex with the guy. And before anyone says it's hormones.....nope, trust me the sexual desire is as high as ever.


Do you think that's because the men you are meeting aren't good matches for you, and you feel no attraction to them because of that?


----------



## Lila

LisaDiane said:


> Do you think that's because the men you are meeting aren't good matches for you, and you feel no attraction to them because of that?


I rarely can tell you after the first date (hour at most) if I am willing to sleep with a man I just met.

To be completely honest, I just don't find many men in my age demographic physically attractive (I am sure many men my age are having similar issues with women). This isn't to say that I will never find them sexually attractive but it is going to be based on more than physical qualities and a 45-1 hour meetup. It takes time.


----------



## ConanHub

LisaDiane said:


> All these rules and different expectations are confusing!!!
> 
> Maybe I should keep hiding in my house until I can figure it all out...Lol!!


I'm definitely an outsider on this one and not as patient a poster as Personal so don't feel bad. LoL!


----------



## Diana7

ConanHub said:


> I'm definitely an outsider on this one and not as patient a poster as Personal so don't feel bad. LoL!


Bets thing is just for each of us to stick to our own rules and hope we meet another who has the same ones!


----------



## ConanHub

Deejo said:


> I cannot disagree. I've certainly never had sex with someone I didn't care about. I don't believe I could have sex with someone I didn't care about.


I've done it a lot. I didn't despise or have contempt for them but there really wasn't anything between several of them besides physical attraction.

The most explosive (nuclear) sexual experience I ever had before my wandering days ended was with a truly evil belly dancer who was physically amazing and I've never had anyone respond like she did and I have never responded like I did with her, either before or since.

Would I do it again? No, though on a purely selfish and physical level, it would be tempting if I was single again.

I will add that Mrs. C and I have put in the work and have definitely eclipsed all our combined sexual history in overall satisfaction and also trying new things.

P.S. I have found sex with the woman I love to be superior but I have also been pretty firm whenever it came to any nonsense about quantity and quality over the years.


----------



## Deejo

Lila said:


> I am sure this happens with men but the older I get (and so does my demographic of dating partners), the less likely I feel like I want to have sex with the guy. And before anyone says it's hormones.....nope, trust me the sexual desire is as high as ever.


Feel compelled to clarify. For guys there is a damn near as unconscious as breathing switch that gets flipped when meeting a woman; she's on the yes list, or the no list. I'm not saying that every woman consciously thinks about having sex on a first date, but I'd wager that if they are with a guy who elicits a strong attraction response, that the box get checked, whether they ever actually become intimate or not. 
I'm a guy, and no one is ever going to convince me that men's brains and women's brains are identical ... because they are not. But I would be genuinely shocked to know that someone who is in the dating game to find a mate, doesn't have it cross their mind whether or not they can see themselves mating with a person they meet on a date.

Are you saying it doesn't cross your radar at all, Lila? Or it simply is not a priority, and even if the 'yes' box gets mentally checked, you are still in no hurry to get to the bedroom?


----------



## Deejo

LATERILUS79 said:


> Deejo, can you direct me to your threads about this subject before? Sorry for the t/j


If you check out several of the posts referred to in Men's Forum sticky: "Be a Better Man ... Be a Better Partner" that will absolutely give you plenty to digest, and I participated in most of them.
Falling under the category of stuff that happens quite regularly that I never, ever, believed, and was shocked to learn that it is downright common, and how to recognize them, and address them, I would point you to this thread:








Fitness Tests


Okay, this is just the perfect example of how to fail a fitness test completely, and the spirally crash and burn afterwards. Notice how this woman immediately takes control of the conversation from even her first question, and the poor fellow consistently gives all authority and control and...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


----------



## hamadryad

Lila said:


> I rarely can tell you after the first date (hour at most) if I am willing to sleep with a man I just met.
> 
> To be completely honest, I just don't find many men in my age demographic physically attractive (I am sure many men my age are having similar issues with women). This isn't to say that I will never find them sexually attractive but it is going to be based on more than physical qualities and a 45-1 hour meetup. It takes time.




You can't compare men with women when it comes to this...

There are many guys(I don't know the percentage) that would eff a warthog if it had tits....The bar is so low, ability to fog a mirror is usually the threshold...

For women, its a world of difference, and I think a lot of the reasons women don't really date or get involved much after a certain age....I think the main reason is that at that point, the available pool of men really _look like crap_, the one's that do look good are probably looking for much younger women, or those women their age that are 9 or 10/10...So what possible ways can these women be physically aroused? Does a beer gut, a hairy back, and visible nose and ear hair, and a good bet ED, do anything to get a woman excited after 45?...I mean, sure, guys in their 20's with decent muscle, hair on their head, and white teeth, are going to be sexy and effable for older women, but most don't or won't go there, not nearly to the same rate older guys do with younger women...

Maybe this is coming from a male perspective, but if you take a hundred people of each gender and round them up. general objective sexual attractiveness would probably favor women over men 10:!...Even a lot of heavy women, if they aren't too sloppy, are effable to most guys...

That's why (I think) women then have to take some time to see if a guy can get there with intangible assets that can counter his lack of assets that would normally make a woman wet on first sight....


----------



## Lila

Deejo said:


> Are you saying it doesn't cross your radar at all, Lila? Or it simply is not a priority, and even if the 'yes' box gets mentally checked, you are still in no hurry to get to the bedroom?


Deejo i enjoy sex a lot... _*with the right man h*_owever I rarely, if ever, meet men in my age demographic who make me think "I want to climb him like a tree...naked.....covered in coconut oil". That used to be my go/no go test. These days the test is "will I have to call 911 if I try climbing him like a tree?" 🤣

All kidding aside, it's what @hamadryad said. It is what it is. 




hamadryad said:


> For women, its a world of difference, and I think a lot of the reasons women don't really date or get involved much after a certain age....I think the main reason is that at that point, the available pool of men really _look like crap_, the one's that do look good are probably looking for much younger women, or those women their age that are 9 or 10/10...So what possible ways can these women be physically aroused? Does a beer gut, a hairy back, and visible nose and ear hair, and a good bet ED, do anything to get a woman excited after 45?...I mean, sure, guys in their 20's with decent muscle, hair on their head, and white teeth, are going to be sexy and effable for older women, but most don't or won't go there, not nearly to the same rate older guys do with younger women...
> 
> Maybe this is coming from a male perspective, but if you take a hundred people of each gender and round them up. general objective sexual attractiveness would probably favor women over men 10:!...Even a lot of heavy women, if they aren't too sloppy, are effable to most guys...
> 
> That's why (I think) women then have to take some time to see if a guy can get there with intangible assets that can counter his lack of assets that would normally make a woman wet on first sight....



@


----------



## Numb26

Lila said:


> Deejo i enjoy sex a lot... _*with the right man h*_owever I rarely, if ever, meet men in my age demographic who make me think "I want to climb him like a tree...naked.....covered in coconut oil". That used to be my go/no go test. These days the test is "will I have to call 911 if I try climbing him like a tree?" 🤣
> 
> All kidding aside, it's what @hamadryad said. It is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @


Bring some extra coconut oil! 😉


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


> "I want to climb him like a tree...naked.....covered in coconut oil". That used to be my go/no go test. These days the test is "will I have to call 911 if I try climbing him like a tree?" 🤣
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @


Lila...🤣!


----------



## Lila

Numb26 said:


> Bring some extra coconut oil! 😉


I buy the huge tub at Costco. I tell everyone who sees it that i use it for cooking.... In the bedroom 😉🤣


----------



## Numb26

Lila said:


> I buy the huge tub at Costco. I tell everyone who sees it that i use it for cooking.... In the bedroom 😉🤣


55 gallon drum with a pump! 🤣🤣


----------



## LATERILUS79

Lila said:


> I am sure this happens with men but the older I get (and so does my demographic of dating partners), the less likely I feel like I want to have sex with the guy. And before anyone says it's hormones.....nope, trust me the sexual desire is as high as ever.


I don’t want to speak for @Deejo, but I think I know what he was getting at.

I don’t think he means “the majority of women will know if they want to sleep with the man after the first date… on that same night as the first date.” I think what he was getting at is most women know if it will ever lead to sex. Meaning, maybe the woman has her own rules in place for waiting 1 week, 1 month, 2 months, etc….. however, she knows if it will lead to that point of having sex after the first date. It just isn’t happening that night.


----------



## TXTrini

heartsbeating said:


> I don't know if this was intended at some posts here. If it was related at all to the post I made about not knowing what each other looked like before meeting, I wanted to clarify something. When I write that, it kinda makes me chuckle more from a forehead slapping 'why did we not think to at least describe ourselves...' I mean, it worked out, cool, BUT it's not that looks don't matter to either of us. They do. It wasn't from a place of 'looks don't matter as we dig each others personality/voices what-have-you' ...and at the point that we met, I don't know that either of us were thinking too far ahead that this could be someone we'd be dating. While it was an evolving attraction via the phone (not for months or anything, likely once a week for a few weeks, I can't really remember), which then led to along the lines of 'Will you be at that venue Thursday night? ...I'll be there, it'd be cool to meet...' Anyway, as mentioned, if the mutual physical attraction and other in-person 'qualifiers' weren't there, neither of us would have continued with the way that it unfolded. Does that make sense? I do think mutual physical attraction is important - at least, to Batman and I it is. Alongside other aspects and characteristics. Nothing particularly unique in that sense of dating. Anyway, I hope that makes sense.


No love, definitely not. You guys have a wonderful story, and I'm glad you've kept the flame burning. 

I was speaking more to men who assume women aren't into looks compared to men. Personally, I need to be physically attracted to someone to want to bonk them and I don't see the point in dating if there's no attraction. 

But physical attraction is not be all and end all, I will ogle and appreciate sexy looking men, they're art and nothing more. Unless other elements come into play... mental, emotional attraction, then hot damn, it's on.


----------



## Deejo

Lila said:


> "I want to climb him like a tree...naked.....covered in coconut oil".


@Lila Honest to God, that right there is the best thing I've read all day.

I'm gonna try that on my lady friend.


----------



## Diana7

hamadryad said:


> You can't compare men with women when it comes to this...
> 
> There are many guys(I don't know the percentage) that would eff a warthog if it had tits....The bar is so low, ability to fog a mirror is usually the threshold...
> 
> For women, its a world of difference, and I think a lot of the reasons women don't really date or get involved much after a certain age....I think the main reason is that at that point, the available pool of men really _look like crap_, the one's that do look good are probably looking for much younger women, or those women their age that are 9 or 10/10...So what possible ways can these women be physically aroused? Does a beer gut, a hairy back, and visible nose and ear hair, and a good bet ED, do anything to get a woman excited after 45?...I mean, sure, guys in their 20's with decent muscle, hair on their head, and white teeth, are going to be sexy and effable for older women, but most don't or won't go there, not nearly to the same rate older guys do with younger women...
> 
> Maybe this is coming from a male perspective, but if you take a hundred people of each gender and round them up. general objective sexual attractiveness would probably favor women over men 10:!...Even a lot of heavy women, if they aren't too sloppy, are effable to most guys...
> 
> That's why (I think) women then have to take some time to see if a guy can get there with intangible assets that can counter his lack of assets that would normally make a woman wet on first sight....


I quite like a hairy back😂


----------



## Diana7

TXTrini said:


> No love, definitely not. You guys have a wonderful story, and I'm glad you've kept the flame burning.
> 
> I was speaking more to men who assume women aren't into looks compared to men. Personally, I need to be physically attracted to someone to want to bonk them and I don't see the point in dating if there's no attraction.
> 
> But physical attraction is not be all and end all, I will ogle and appreciate sexy looking men, they're art and nothing more. Unless other elements come into play... mental, emotional attraction, then hot damn, it's on.


Chemistry for me is about a lot more than looks, as you say. Character and integrity and other attributes are vital for me to feel that attraction. 
With my head I can see a good looking guy and think 'he is good looking' but that's as far as it goes and there is no attraction in the real sense. 

I have to know more for there to be real attraction or not.


----------



## hamadryad

Diana7 said:


> I quite like a hairy back😂


Of course you do....and if I also mentioned a 2 inch pecker, you would probably say that you like that too!l.. 😂


----------



## Lila

LATERILUS79 said:


> I don’t want to speak for @Deejo, but I think I know what he was getting at.
> 
> I don’t think he means “the majority of women will know if they want to sleep with the man after the first date… on that same night as the first date.” I think what he was getting at is most women know if it will ever lead to sex. Meaning, maybe the woman has her own rules in place for waiting 1 week, 1 month, 2 months, etc….. however, she knows if it will lead to that point of having sex after the first date. It just isn’t happening that night.


The honest truth is that I don't know for the vast majority of men I meet. The remainder are mostly Hell Nos and half as many are Hell Yeses.


----------



## Not

I was on a date Saturday night and we were talking about this very thing. In the mid 40's to 50's age range the quality of the available singles is sooooo bad! I don't think of myself as super hot dating material but damn it's hard to find someone who I see as at least equal to me in the looks department. I'm average in build, not heavy or too thin and I look decent for my age, I think. Most men have let themselves go to the point of no return and my date said most women who are average in build wear so much make-up he can't help but be afraid of what's underneath. Dating truly sucks in this age range.

I was catching up on this thread just now and it reminded me of a conversation I had with exBF. I asked him one day if he would have ever gone out with me if I had made it clear from the get go that sex was off the table for an indeterminate time and he said most definitely not. His reasoning was he is too old for that sort of game. We're all adults who've been there and done that. No reason to play little miss coy/innocent at this age. I agree with him but with a big BUT. I'm already at two men in four years, how high will my count go if I continue like I have been? I don't want that, it's not who I am. 

Current guy is looking pretty good but I've got this thing going on in my mind that I don't want another notch on my bed post.


----------



## Cletus

Not said:


> Current guy is looking pretty good but I've got this thing going on in my mind that I don't want another notch on my bed post.


Why? Who's keeping count other than you? Are you having to provide this information on job applications? To secure credit lines? Renew your driver's license? Why be a slave to an integer? 2 in 4 years isn't going put you on the cover of **** Quarterly.


----------



## Not

Cletus said:


> Why? Who's keeping count other than you? Are you having to provide this information on job applications? To secure credit lines? Renew your driver's license? Why be a slave to an integer? 2 in 4 years isn't going put you on the cover of **** Quarterly.



I know. I'm no prude and love sex but not to the tune of a couple of men a year and that's the direction this seems to be heading for me. And I do wonder how men think in regards to this side of the dating life. We're all kind of stuck, it's how things work in the dating world. Sex is part of the testing of the waters but how do men view women who've been with more men in say four or five years than they did for the first 45 years of their life? It's got to lessen a womans value to some degree, yes?


----------



## leftfield

Not said:


> I know. I'm no prude and love sex but not to the tune of a couple of men a year and that's the direction this seems to be heading for me. And I do wonder how men think in regards to this side of the dating life. We're all kind of stuck, it's how things work in the dating world. Sex is part of the testing of the waters but how do men view women who've been with more men in say four or five years than they did for the first 45 years of their life? It's got to lessen a womans value to some degree, yes?


I'm sure that this topic has been covered more than once her on TAM. From what I recall, the answer depends on the man. And the women who post (and many of the men) seem to think that if the man is one who cares about this, then you should just next him anyways.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Not said:


> I know. I'm no prude and love sex but not to the tune of a couple of men a year and that's the direction this seems to be heading for me. And I do wonder how men think in regards to this side of the dating life. We're all kind of stuck, it's how things work in the dating world. Sex is part of the testing of the waters but how do men view women who've been with more men in say four or five years than they did for the first 45 years of their life? It's got to lessen a womans value to some degree, yes?


I get what you are saying. I’m 42 years old. If my wife and I split for any reason and I had sex with another woman, that would actually double the number of women I’ve ever slept with. 😂

From one low count person to another, here is how I see it:

No man has any right to complain about a woman’s number unless he keeps himself to the same standard. 


Outside of that, I would ask yourself what you are looking for. If you enjoy casually dating, so be it. No harm, no foul. If you want a long monogamous relationship, maybe hold back from sex with multiple guys and try to form an emotional bond with who you sleep with.


----------



## LisaDiane

Not said:


> I know. I'm no prude and love sex but not to the tune of a couple of men a year and that's the direction this seems to be heading for me. And I do wonder how men think in regards to this side of the dating life. We're all kind of stuck, it's how things work in the dating world. Sex is part of the testing of the waters but how do men view women who've been with more men in say four or five years than they did for the first 45 years of their life? *It's got to lessen a womans value to some degree, yes?*


Is this what YOU believe? I mean, REALLY ask yourself -- do YOU believe regular dating, getting to know people, enjoying sex with men you have feelings for, being real and honest about what you want and need in a relationship, and being open and unafraid to go after what you want, LESSENS anyone's value??

Would you think your sisters, or daughters, or friends, or other happy, caring, emotionally healthy women have less value for that?

And would you ever want to be involved with a man who did think that??


----------



## PieceOfSky

Not said:


> I know. I'm no prude and love sex but not to the tune of a couple of men a year and that's the direction this seems to be heading for me. And I do wonder how men think in regards to this side of the dating life. We're all kind of stuck, it's how things work in the dating world. Sex is part of the testing of the waters but how do men view women who've been with more men in say four or five years than they did for the first 45 years of their life? It's got to lessen a womans value to some degree, yes?


We’re all different. So, no. It doesn’t have to lessen her value as perceived by would-be partners.

Some men would need to get to know her, the path she has taken, where she wants to go, and the values she lives by — before a number could have meaning, and that meaning could turn out to be negative, neutral, or positive.

Some men would be hopeful seeing signs she values pleasure, hers and her partner’s, and that for her an active sex life would be a proper part of whatever sort of relationship they both are pursuing.

Some men would genuinely be glad she has moved on to living a more satisfying existence by her own rules, and admire her willingness to take chances, as well as her ability to end relationships that aren’t working out.

(Disclaimer: Haven’t been in the dating life for over two decades.)


----------



## Diana7

hamadryad said:


> Of course you do....and if I also mentioned a 2 inch pecker, you would probably say that you like that too!l.. 😂


Depends on who it's attached to.


----------



## Diana7

Not said:


> I was on a date Saturday night and we were talking about this very thing. In the mid 40's to 50's age range the quality of the available singles is sooooo bad! I don't think of myself as super hot dating material but damn it's hard to find someone who I see as at least equal to me in the looks department. I'm average in build, not heavy or too thin and I look decent for my age, I think. Most men have let themselves go to the point of no return and my date said most women who are average in build wear so much make-up he can't help but be afraid of what's underneath. Dating truly sucks in this age range.
> 
> I was catching up on this thread just now and it reminded me of a conversation I had with exBF. I asked him one day if he would have ever gone out with me if I had made it clear from the get go that sex was off the table for an indeterminate time and he said most definitely not. His reasoning was he is too old for that sort of game. We're all adults who've been there and done that. No reason to play little miss coy/innocent at this age. I agree with him but with a big BUT. I'm already at two men in four years, how high will my count go if I continue like I have been? I don't want that, it's not who I am.
> 
> Current guy is looking pretty good but I've got this thing going on in my mind that I don't want another notch on my bed post.


You can choose not to be another notch. If a guy isn't prepared to wait a while then what does that say about him? Dont settle just because the choice is limited.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Decide each case as it's own separate situation. Could be on first date, could be third, could be whatever you want.

But don't second guess your decisions to have sex or not in any case. Right now what you want is most important in your relations with guys.


----------



## LisaDiane

PieceOfSky said:


> We’re all different. So, no. It doesn’t have to lessen her value as perceived by would-be partners.
> 
> Some men would need to get to know her, the path she has taken, where she wants to go, and the values she lives by — before a number could have meaning, and that meaning could turn out to be negative, neutral, or positive.
> 
> Some men would be hopeful seeing signs she values pleasure, hers and her partner’s, and that for her an active sex life would be a proper part of whatever sort of relationship they both are pursuing.
> 
> Some men would genuinely be glad she has moved on to living a more satisfying existence by her own rules, and admire her willingness to take chances, as well as her ability to end relationships that aren’t working out.
> 
> (Disclaimer: Haven’t been in the dating life for over two decades.)


I love this perspective!!! And a man who was making considerations about me with those thoughts and standards would be a very desirable partner to me!


----------



## Deejo

Hello dear friends. 

I'm pleased to report, the answer to my query is; 4.

I'm happy with that.


----------



## Blondilocks

hamadryad said:


> You can't compare men with women when it comes to this...
> 
> There are many guys(I don't know the percentage) that would eff a warthog if it had tits....The bar is so low, ability to fog a mirror is usually the threshold...
> 
> For women, its a world of difference, and I think a lot of the reasons women don't really date or get involved much after a certain age....I think the main reason is that at that point, the available pool of men really _look like crap_, the one's that do look good are probably looking for much younger women, or those women their age that are 9 or 10/10...So what possible ways can these women be physically aroused? Does a beer gut, a hairy back, and visible nose and ear hair, and a good bet ED, do anything to get a woman excited after 45?...I mean, sure, guys in their 20's with decent muscle, hair on their head, and white teeth, are going to be sexy and effable for older women, but most don't or won't go there, not nearly to the same rate older guys do with younger women...
> 
> Maybe this is coming from a male perspective, but if you take a hundred people of each gender and round them up. general objective sexual attractiveness would probably favor women over men 10:!...Even a lot of heavy women, if they aren't too sloppy, are effable to most guys...
> 
> That's why (I think) women then have to take some time to see if a guy can get there with intangible assets that can counter his lack of assets that would normally make a woman wet on first sight....


Hail to the chief! 👏 Finally, there is one man on earth who does not believe men age better than women. Whoever cooked up that myth did men no favors.


----------



## ConanHub

Blondilocks said:


> Hail to the chief! 👏 Finally, there is one man on earth who does not believe men age better than women. Whoever cooked up that myth did men no favors.


Hey now, I've been a long running fan of older women and I think a lot of them have aged pretty damn good!😉

Ladies are generally prettier to begin with.🙂


----------



## Numb26

ConanHub said:


> Hey now, I've been a long running fan of older women and I think a lot of them have aged pretty damn good!😉


The best thing about dating older women is that they think it's the last time they will get any so they put everything into it! 😉🤔🤣🤣


----------



## ConanHub

Numb26 said:


> The best thing about dating older women is that they think it's the last time they will get any so they put everything into it! 😉🤔🤣🤣


You such an a hole!😵‍💫

I'm convinced they just know a lot more and cut through a lot of BS.😉

Sorry for the TJ Deejo.


----------



## TexasMom1216

ConanHub said:


> I'm convinced they just know a lot more and cut through a lot of BS.😉


Plus if you're divorced and have children, clearly, the lid has already been taken off the cookie jar. 😉 And one of the cooler things about getting older is that you know who you are and you know what you want and you have zero interest in silly games.


----------



## TXTrini

Numb26 said:


> The best thing about dating older women is that they think it's the last time they will get any so they put everything into it! 😉🤔🤣🤣


That's true. Especially since you dudes act like you might die if you work too hard and long. Might as well get some value out of it before you guys pop off.


----------



## Not

LisaDiane said:


> Is this what YOU believe? I mean, REALLY ask yourself -- do YOU believe regular dating, getting to know people, enjoying sex with men you have feelings for, being real and honest about what you want and need in a relationship, and being open and unafraid to go after what you want, LESSENS anyone's value??
> 
> Would you think your sisters, or daughters, or friends, or other happy, caring, emotionally healthy women have less value for that?
> 
> And would you ever want to be involved with a man who did think that??


Just saw this! Oh heck no that's not what I believe but at the same time I prefer to be with just one person, which can be impossible while looking for the right one! I really was just wondering about men's attitudes toward it all.


----------



## Numb26

TXTrini said:


> That's true. Especially since you dudes act like you might die if you work too hard and long. Might as well get some value out of it before you guys pop off.


You know you will have to put in overtime to keep up with me! 😉


----------



## LisaDiane

Not said:


> Just saw this! Oh heck no that's not what I believe but at the same time I prefer to be with just one person, which can be impossible while looking for the right one! I really was just wondering about men's attitudes toward it all.


I know...but see how it sounds when I say it out loud? Be careful not to tell yourself that subconsciously, because YOU know better, and because that's not YOUR standard of value for women or yourself.

Who cares what other men think...if they don't accept YOU, then they don't deserve you!

Besides, I'm pretty sure that as long as a woman is enthusiastic and uninhibited sexually with HIM, most men don't care about partner count.

I don't think you are being sexually promiscuous at all, I think you are being HUMAN. You are one of the female posters who are a great example for ME!!


----------



## leftfield

Not said:


> Just saw this! Oh heck no that's not what I believe but at the same time I prefer to be with just one person, which can be impossible while looking for the right one! I really was just wondering about men's attitudes toward it all.


Since this topic has come back, I'll share my perspective with you (as a man who would care about count). First thing is just about every woman on this site would tell you to move along and find someone else if you ever find a man who cares. This take is completely understandable and it would simplify your life, if you adopt it.

My perspective: I have only had one sexual partner in my life. If I was single and dating, I would be looking for someone who is compatible for me. I know myself well enough to know that my count would not be climbing much at all. Would I care what a womans exact count is? Not particularly, I would mostly be looking for openness, honesty and compatibility. With that said, I would be interested in her count, but more importantly how she got there. For me, if a woman has a count of 10 and each of those was in a relationship that lasted a year +, I would have less reservation than if a woman had a count of 10 which included 6 ONS and only two lengthy relationships. 

Overall, you really shouldn't be worried about what men like me think. Live your life the way you want.


----------



## TXTrini

Numb26 said:


> You know you will have to put in overtime to keep up with me! 😉


Men always think that. Until women outlast them and they get butthurt.


----------



## Numb26

TXTrini said:


> Men always think that. Until women outlast them and they get butthurt.


----------



## Not

Deejo said:


> Hello dear friends.
> 
> I'm pleased to report, the answer to my query is; 4.
> 
> I'm happy with that.


I've been seeing someone and am now officially dating him but he mentioned the three date rule on our second date. He's been out of the dating scene for awhile and said he saw it on google lol! Ours was 5.


----------



## TXTrini

Not said:


> I've been seeing someone and am now officially dating him but he mentioned the three date rule on our second date. He's been out of the dating scene for awhile and said he saw it on google lol! Ours was 5.


I suppose he wasn't an ass about it, since it was 5 dates


----------



## Blondilocks

Numb26 said:


> View attachment 83483


Some challenge - the dude's gay.


----------



## Not

TXTrini said:


> I suppose he wasn't an ass about it, since it was 5 dates


No, not an ass at all, very happy camper lol!


----------



## Deejo

Not said:


> I've been seeing someone and am now officially dating him but he mentioned the three date rule on our second date. He's been out of the dating scene for awhile and said he saw it on google lol! Ours was 5.


Well congratulations! But we can't just leave it at that now can we?

So the magic happened on date #5. But after which date did you know you wanted the results you got on #5?

I still generally believe the sex box gets mentally checked on date #1.


----------



## CrAzYdOgLaDy

My husband and I it was our 2nd date. He booked an expensive Hotel for a weekend. We talked lots and text lots in between till our 2nd date. Our very 1st date was hot and by the time I got home I was horny as anything lol. He was in the Navy and would see each other fortnightly if we could. By our 2nd date we both knew what we wanted. He was a gentleman and treated me like a queen. We were engaged a few months later.


----------



## Not

Deejo said:


> Well congratulations! But we can't just leave it at that now can we?
> 
> So the magic happened on date #5. But after which date did you know you wanted the results you got on #5?
> 
> I still generally believe the sex box gets mentally checked on date #1.


Yes, it was date #1 for me. Someone either hits the right spot or they don't.


----------



## farsidejunky

Deejo said:


> I still generally believe the sex box gets mentally checked on date #1.


This.


----------



## heartsbeating

Deejo said:


> So ... ushered away by the cops. After meeting Batman ...
> You REALLY ARE a cat burglar aren't you?
> All makes perfect sense.


I drew him in with my voice before we met, so by the time I was ushered away, he was already smitten. <insert cackle>



Deejo said:


> I still generally believe the sex box gets mentally checked on date #1.


From my personal and outdated dating experience, this likely was the case... kind of along with that I somehow felt he was someone that I could fall hard for. To expand on your general belief, before we even went on our first date, we had arranged to meet casually at a club after only briefly meeting before. It wasn't a date, no set time. I'd arrived with some friends, one of whom was a gay male. At the club, Batman and I were getting tingly for one another, briefly parted to get drinks or something, and I ended up walking across the club holding hands with my gay friend and essentially expressing that I was digging on Batman. Next thing I knew, Batman was nowhere to be seen. I learned he'd seen me hand-in-hand with my friend (and hadn't met yet), and bounced to the club next door. I still recall the feeling I had when hurrying across to the other club to find him. He told me he didn't play like that. I explained that my friend was gay, and indicated my interest in Batman. We went back to the original club and kissed each others faces off.

Side note, I did actually have a date planned for later that night, however, stood him up. Had never stood anyone up before. I was becoming smitten with Batman and consciously chose to stay. When friends were getting ready to leave, gay friend assumed I'd be going home with Batman, even though he'd not experienced me going home with anyone before. I didn't though, and left with friends. Next day ole Bats called and arranged a date. I cringe about this now, in terms of my delivery, yet at the end of the date I told him where I was at in terms of not being down with casual sex. Not long ago we reflected on this and he said it didn't matter to him either way; although he liked hearing me say the word 'sex'.


----------



## Deejo

heartsbeating said:


> Next thing I knew, Batman was nowhere to be seen. I learned he'd seen me hand-in-hand with my friend (and hadn't met yet), and bounced to the club next door. I still recall the feeling I had when hurrying across to the other club to find him. He told me he didn't play like that. I explained that my friend was gay, and indicated my interest in Batman. We went back to the original club and kissed each others faces off.
> Next day ole Bats called and arranged a date. I cringe about this now, in terms of my delivery, yet at the end of the date I told him where I was at in terms of not being down with casual sex. Not long ago we reflected on this and he said it didn't matter to him either way; although he liked hearing me say the word 'sex'.


Yep.
Batman.

In revisiting this, I have been having frequent discussions with a female friend whose marriage is in the tank, and she keeps reaching out to me due either to my sage wisdom, disarming charm, monkey-branching, or I'm just the best she can do conversationally.

She feigned shock about women being smart and keeping safe. How they didn't really know a man before sleeping with them after meeting them a few times. 

I reminded her that quite often once a woman really 'knows' a man is when she decides to STOP sleeping with him.

That and gently reminded her that she and I had sex in our 20's after dating for a month.

Her response; "That was different."

Of course ...


----------



## snowbum

Deejo said:


> Yep.
> Batman.
> 
> In revisiting this, I have been having frequent discussions with a female friend whose marriage is in the tank, and she keeps reaching out to me due either to my sage wisdom, disarming charm, monkey-branching, or I'm just the best she can do conversationally.
> 
> She feigned shock about women being smart and keeping safe. How they didn't really know a man before sleeping with them after meeting them a few times.
> 
> I reminded her that quite often once a woman really 'knows' a man is when she decides to STOP sleeping with him.
> 
> That and gently reminded her that she and I had sex in our 20's after dating for a month.
> 
> Her response; "That was different."
> 
> Of course ...


Ive known my husband 31 years and we have sex 5 times a week min. Shoots down the se. stops when you know someone


----------



## jenny_1

I have no time frame on having sex. I kinda just know when the time is right based on our conversations, how well we're getting along, and how close we're becoming. Sometimes that can be the first date, and sometimes it never happens.


----------



## Deejo

snowbum said:


> Ive known my husband 31 years and we have sex 5 times a week min. Shoots down the se. stops when you know someone



@snowbum Show off ...


----------



## Julie's Husband

LATERILUS79 said:


> while I agree with deejo that men are ready for sex at all times (at least physically), I’m not so sure I was mentally prepared for it. I was saving myself for someone I truly loved. It was actually my wife that pushed us to have sex at the 4 week mark of dating. I wanted to wait a little bit longer but…… she had her ways of convincing me.
> 
> God forbid something ever happening that puts me on the dating market again, I wouldn’t know what the hell to do with myself.


Sounds like my situation, though I wasn't saving myself for anything. Just couldn't get it through my head that some women don't wait around for a relationship before wanting to have sex.

The women I knew in the Biblical sense before my marriage were all for hookups initiated by the women.

After several months of platonic relationship (my choice) I gave my wife to be freedom to be the one to make a choice. And here we are over 45 years later.


----------



## RandomDude

. Whoops ladies section soz


----------



## HarryBosch

Diana7 said:


> Must admit I fear for women who are happy to go off somewhere on their own with a guy they barely know to have sex. Talk about risk taking!! I mean what could possibly go wrong. 🤔😲🤦


If you are seeking to heal, this exactly what you don't want to do.


----------



## Divinely Favored

leftfield said:


> I have been out of the dating market for over 2 decades, so I'm not going to get into timelines and how the market works today. The only thing I will say is that my wife and I waited until after marriage because of our faith. If for some reason, I every end up single and looking again. There is noway marriage will happen unless we are sexually compatible.


You are never out of the dating game! I continue to date my wife of 25 yrs.


----------



## Busy Washing My Hair

Wow, reading this thread has made me feel a bit uncomfortable and unprepared for the dating world. At this point in my life I can’t imagine having sex with somebody on the first date it even the 3rd date. I don’t like the idea of a penis that has been in many different women on a multitude of other 3rd dates inside me. I find that gross. I want a man with experience but not somebody who has been on the dating scene for a little while and having sex on many of his 1st or 2nd dates. The idea of putting a penis inside me that has been inside many other women is very gross. Similar to putting a used dildo or tampon inside of me or something. Of the two LTR I’ve had, I didn’t have sex for at least 3 months after we were officially a couple. I would never consider myself officially a couple with anyone after only a few dates.

Before that I did have a one night stand as well as noncommittal sex that was not really in line with actually dating the guys I was with and I did not like how that felt and I was always grossed out by the thought of wherever their penises had been before.


----------



## Bulfrog1987

So as I'm a widow, looking to get back into some kind of dating scene, I wonder about this too. Although I am not into having casual sex at all, I'm sure the dating pool will become even MORE narrow for me. I'm currently talking to a man who shares the same values as me, we've even spoken about sex, that I am protective of myself BECAUSE of coming out of a 15 year marriage, that the last 8 months of were absolutely toxic and really lots of years before that were no good either. 

I've only been with three men in my whole 35 years of life and it terrifies me to think I'll be used again.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Bulfrog1987 said:


> So as I'm a widow, looking to get back into some kind of dating scene, I wonder about this too. Although I am not into having casual sex at all, I'm sure the dating pool will become even MORE narrow for me. I'm currently talking to a man who shares the same values as me, we've even spoken about sex, that I am protective of myself BECAUSE of coming out of a 15 year marriage, that the last 8 months of were absolutely toxic and really lots of years before that were no good either.
> 
> I've only been with three men in my whole 35 years of life and it terrifies me to think I'll be used again.


Have courage, use caution, don't settle, and enjoy getting out and about!


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> Wow, reading this thread has made me feel a bit uncomfortable and unprepared for the dating world. At this point in my life I can’t imagine having sex with somebody on the first date it even the 3rd date. I don’t like the idea of a penis that has been in many different women on a multitude of other 3rd dates inside me. I find that gross. I want a man with experience but not somebody who has been on the dating scene for a little while and having sex on many of his 1st or 2nd dates. The idea of putting a penis inside me that has been inside many other women is very gross. Similar to putting a used dildo or tampon inside of me or something. Of the two LTR I’ve had, I didn’t have sex for at least 3 months after we were officially a couple. I would never consider myself officially a couple with anyone after only a few dates.
> 
> Before that I did have a one night stand as well as noncommittal sex that was not really in line with actually dating the guys I was with and I did not like how that felt and I was always grossed out by the thought of wherever their penises had been before.


But you do have to accept in this 25 to 37 yo date range all said peens will you know, have traveled, seen the circus a lot.

But peens are wash and wear. 😉


----------



## Busy Washing My Hair

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> But you do have to accept in this 25 to 37 yo date range all said peens will you know, have traveled, seen the circus a lot.
> 
> But peens are wash and wear. 😉


Well, I don’t find completely inexperienced men attractive so I’m not expecting to sleep with a virgin.

I just anticipate going on many first dates with many different men because I’m waiting to find just the right guy for me. Maybe many 2nd and 3rd dates too. So I don’t want to be having sex with each guy I make it to a 3rd date with, you know? To me 3 dates isn’t enough to feel comfortable to give that part of myself to somebody yet. I made that mistake in the past. Nope I’m going to hold out a little longer this time around and if a guy doesn’t like that then he’s obviously not going to be the right guy for me. I’m not interested in having casual sex and I’d like to wait until I find somebody that I REALLY like and that I think is headed into more of a committed relationship before I put his used penis inside me. At that point, I won’t care that his penis is used.


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## Busy Washing My Hair

Also, 25-37? I think I’ll be avoiding anybody under 30 and I’m pretty sure any guy between 30-35 is still strongly interested in the women in their 20s so I’m probably going to have to aim a bit older.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> Also, 25-37? I think I’ll be avoiding anybody under 30 and I’m pretty sure any guy between 30-35 is still strongly interested in the women in their 20s so I’m probably going to have to aim a bit older.


Well, I'm being a realist. You will. There will be some surprises!
Some 28yos may be on the catch and release menu. 👍👍👍
Edited to add, there were many 30yo women in my early days as an 16 to 20 yo guy. It can easily happen....


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## Busy Washing My Hair

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Well, I'm being a realist. You will. There will be some surprises!
> Some 28yos may be on the catch and release menu. 👍👍👍
> Edited to add, there were many 30yo women in my early days as an 16 to 20 yo guy. It can easily happen....


But I’m not talking about just casual hookups. Sure I could find a younger guy willing to sleep with me. I’m talking about long term relationships. I don’t have time to mess around with casual hookups. I’m 34 and want a baby and I don’t want to have to adopt or use a surrogate. I don’t envision most 25 year old men being quite what I’m looking for but sure if I met one and he ticked a lot of the boxes and for some reason was interested in me as well I would not rule him out just because of age. Don’t see that happening. Anything below that I would definitely rule out. I do plan to date a lot though once I’m free because I’m not going to settle on just any man. I will eventually have sex with somebody I’m dating but probably not within the first few dates.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> But I’m not talking about just casual hookups. Sure I could find a younger guy willing to sleep with me. I’m talking about long term relationships. I don’t have time to mess around with casual hookups. I’m 34 and want a baby and I don’t want to have to adopt or use a surrogate. I don’t envision most 25 year old men being quite what I’m looking for but sure if I met one and he ticked a lot of the boxes and for some reason was interested in me as well I would not rule him out just because of age. Don’t see that happening. Anything below that I would definitely rule out. I do plan to date a lot though once I’m free because I’m not going to settle on just any man. I will eventually have sex with somebody I’m dating but probably not within the first few dates.


You may have that physical attraction and want to experiment a little. Try and not put too many rules on yourself too much in advance.


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## Busy Washing My Hair

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You may have that physical attraction and want to experiment a little. Try and not put too many rules on yourself too much in advance.


Yes like last night when I hadn’t even said 1 word to this guy yet but I wanted him to rip my clothes off and screw me in front of a room of people? Yeah 3 dates might have been hard for me to hold out for if it was that guy!


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## Enigma32

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> Yes like last night when I hadn’t even said 1 word to this guy yet but I wanted him to rip my clothes off and screw me in front of a room of people? Yeah 3 dates might have been hard for me to hold out for if it was that guy!


And if you aren't careful, you will see this cycle repeated over and over when you are dating. It's partly why the 3rd date rule even exists.


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## frenchpaddy

Enigma32 said:


> And if you aren't careful, you will see this cycle repeated over and over when you are dating. It's partly why the 3rd date rule even exists.


 3rd rule sounds like something men made up for girls to feel good about not having sex the first night , 
some thing as the one one sex session is the same as a 5 km run , I have never see someone do a 5km run in under 40 seconds ,


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## Julie's Husband

frenchpaddy said:


> 3rd rule sounds like something men made up for girls to feel good about not having sex the first night ,
> some thing as the one one sex session is the same as a 5 km run , I have never see someone do a 5km run in under 40 seconds ,


I absolutely would not be looking for sex on the first date or third or whatever. All the women who approached me other than my wife to be wanted to screw just after meeting. I married the one who didn't.


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## Numb26

Julie's Husband said:


> I absolutely would not be looking for sex on the first date or third or whatever. All the women who approached me other than my wife to be wanted to screw just after meeting. I married the one who didn't.


I always follow the 3 date rule. Saves wasting my time and theirs.


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## Diana7

HarryBosch said:


> If you are seeking to heal, this exactly what you don't want to do.


Or if you are seeking not to be attacked or even killed.


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## Enigma32

frenchpaddy said:


> 3rd rule sounds like something men made up for girls to feel good about not having sex the first night ,
> some thing as the one one sex session is the same as a 5 km run , I have never see someone do a 5km run in under 40 seconds ,


Nope. If anything, the rule was started by ladies. I noticed each time I met someone new they were all over me by date 3. It's never something I pushed for. After reading experiences from other men, it's the same with them too. If a woman is into you, she will be the one to try and get laid by date 3, if she isn't into you, she will make excuses and talk about how you should wait for her to feel comfortable.


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## Busy Washing My Hair

It seems to have possibly been started by popular womens magazines like Cosmopolitan, but then really popularized in the late 90s by Sex and the City.


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