# They didn't have to cheat. It really isn't your fault!



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

They didn't have to cheat. It really isn't your fault!

Whatever problems you have in your marriage there's no excuse for infidelity.


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> They didn't have to cheat. It really isn't your fault!
> 
> Whatever problems you have in your marriage there's no excuse for infidelity.


There are so many other options available that betraying is the totally selfish way to go.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Matt,

Keep preaching the truth friend.

Is seems so painfully obvious, you would think all BS would just instinctively know this...a priori knowledge as they call it in philosophy (lol...I love that term so thought I's throw it in).

But it does need to keep being repeated and hammered here in the threads....so many BSs come in blaming themselves for the fact their partner chose to betray them.

And if you go to other sites...*cough* SI....this mindset is like a full blown plague


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> Matt,
> 
> Keep preaching the truth friend.
> 
> ...


Thanks!

But everyone, I believe, is capable of cheating.

I know from my own experience.

Finding out that "even I" could be a low down, cheating skunk came as an unpleasant shock to me.


----------



## almetcalf (Jul 16, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> They didn't have to cheat. It really isn't your fault!
> 
> Whatever problems you have in your marriage there's no excuse for infidelity.


You must not be in a terrible marriage then. Look, there are people that are STUCK in marriages that absolutely SUCK. They stay there because of kids or lack of enough money to get out. Many times their spouse is a sexless thoughtless person. And you think the person that cheats is the bad one? :scratchhead:


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Thanks!
> 
> But everyone, I believe, is capable of cheating.


MM, love like a brother, but I don't agree. There are some who just won't.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Matt,

Yeah I know you feel that way, but I see RAs, including yours, in a different light.

To me it they are an act of justice or revenge that a BS has every right to inflict on his/her WS.

I know you see it differently, and that's OK....your position is the right one for you and that's all that matters for your life.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

almetcalf said:


> You must not be in a terrible marriage then. Look, there are people that are STUCK in marriages that absolutely SUCK. They stay there because of kids or lack of enough money to get out. Many times their spouse is a sexless thoughtless person. And you think the person that cheats is the bad one? :scratchhead:


Neither is a valid excuse to stay in a bad marriage. Your not stuck in it, you do have options. The options may not be great or what you want but exactly how would cheating fix anything other than hurting your spouse?


----------



## JWTBL (May 28, 2014)

Almetcalf, if you are "stuck" in a bad marriage, then get out of it while retaining some self respect. Lying and cheating and sneaking behind your spouses back makes you a coward and a cheater, plain and simple.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

almetcalf said:


> You must not be in a terrible marriage then. Look, there are people that are STUCK in marriages that absolutely SUCK. They stay there because of kids or lack of enough money to get out. Many times their spouse is a sexless thoughtless person. And you think the person that cheats is the bad one? :scratchhead:


Oh, that's not even close!

My wife cheated and I had a stupid revenge affair, but we hung on and got back on track.

But I accept responsibility for my affair.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"You must not be in a terrible marriage then. Look, there are people that are STUCK in marriages that absolutely SUCK. They stay there because of kids or lack of enough money to get out. Many times their spouse is a sexless thoughtless person. And you think the person that cheats is the bad one?"

Um....Yeah...absolutely.

The person who cheats has plenty of other options besides opting to betray their partner and vows.

'I'm trapped' is a garbage excuse...anyone who truly saw the M as hopeless and over COULD find a way, any way, to inform their partner, file for D, and move on....they just choose not to.

Whether its laziness, selfishness...whatever....they instead choose to continue using their partner for financial/material support while then going out and stabbing them in the back.

Cheaters are dishonest, disloyal trash.


----------



## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> MM, love like a brother, but I don't agree. There are some who just won't.


Until the Human Genome Project identifies a "cheating gene" this debate cannot be resolved, but I agree with MattMatt. I think any one of us is capable of cheating (not only RA's) given the right circumstances. For many (I hope most) of us these circumstances may be so extreme as to never occur. For some these circumstances may occur easily. For others they may occur only once. But I don't think any of us is "wired" not to cheat, just as I do not think we are slaves to biologically-impelled promiscuity. Context is everything.

ETA: I am not saying that there are circumstances when it is "right" to cheat.


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Philat said:


> Until the Human Genome Project identifies a "cheating gene" this debate cannot be resolved, but I agree with MattMatt. I think any one of us is capable of cheating (not only RA's) given the right circumstances. For many (I hope most) of us these circumstances may be so extreme as to never occur. For some these circumstances may occur easily. For others they may occur only once. But I don't think any of us is "wired" not to cheat, just as I do not think we are slaves to biologically-impelled promiscuity. Context is everything.
> 
> ETA: I am not saying that there are circumstances when it is "right" to cheat.


I do know that betraying behavior hss been determined to be an addictive trait in studies. And addictions can be gene related. That said, I think various betrayers do so via gene related means.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> They didn't have to cheat. It really isn't your fault!
> 
> Whatever problems you have in your marriage there's no excuse for infidelity.


This is the bottom line. Cheating is always a bad choice. Even when the marriage needs to end, it should finish before the next thing starts.


----------



## almetcalf (Jul 16, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> The person who cheats has plenty of other options besides opting to betray their partner and vows.
> 
> 'I'm trapped' is a garbage excuse...anyone who truly saw the M as hopeless and over COULD find a way, any way, to inform their partner, file for D, and move on....they just choose not to.
> 
> ...


No, the person that DRIVES their spouse to cheat is trash. But maybe that's what you did. Is that it? You drove your spouse to cheat and then acted all saintly because you weren't the one that cheated?


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"No, the person that DRIVES their spouse to cheat is trash. But maybe that's what you did. Is that it? You drove your spouse to cheat and then acted all saintly because you weren't the one that cheated?"

Tell yourself whatever you need to to justify your own sh*tty behavior....typical self-centered cheater thought processes...'oh, woe is me, you made me turn into a lying, backstabbing, faithless, traitor...shame on you for driving me to it."

Here in the real world of logic, rather than emotional pity parties, those excuses won't fly.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

almetcalf said:


> No, the person that DRIVES their spouse to cheat is trash. But maybe that's what you did. Is that it? You drove your spouse to cheat and then acted all saintly because you weren't the one that cheated?


In effect I suppose you could say my wife drove me to cheat.

BUT I acknowledge that I was wrong to cheat. I should have done something else, but I didn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Back to the bush leagues Almetcalf, where no one is responsible for their own actions, but is always ready to blame.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Unless you are dropping them off at the AP's house, nobody drives anyone else to cheat.


----------



## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> I do know that betraying behavior hss been determined to be an addictive trait in studies. And addictions can be gene related. That said, I think various betrayers do so via gene related means.



Look, it's only my opinion formed by my personal experience and informed by the experiences of many others, but...

I think you guys get lost in the weeds and go down too many rabbit holes sometimes (how's that for a mixed metaphor? lol Orwell would shake his head at me).

The original observation is correct because it is is simple: there are other options. More importantly, it is entirely likely that if your spouse cheats it has nothing at all to do with you. That's a little hard for people wrapped up in their egos or struggling with control issues to get their head around because it implies there is nothing they can do to prevent it from happening again ... even with somebody new, and if you've been through the trauma and likely emotional abuse that accompanies cheating, it's kind of natural that you want to avoid that sort of thing in the future, and living like a monk or a nun isn't for everybody, and so those childish/egocentric coping strategies start to kick in 

The truth is, there's not much you can do to prevent it even in terms of mate selection other than ruling out people of obvious bad character. And somebody who's already done it has already proven they are capable of doing that to their intimate partner(s), and it's obvious they weren't considering an awful lot of probable outcomes to their bad behaviors including how those impact their spouse and family. If this is done over a long period, multiple times, or if it persists upon discovery, chances are the marriage is not worth saving because the cheating partner has no or low empathy for their family/spouse and either poor impulse control or no concept of healthy boundaries.

Fairly often after a marriage breaks up due to infidelity, once the crisis-mode ends, the betrayed spouse will--using the benefit of hindsight--begin to connect the infidelity with other behaviors that indicate low/no empathy, or self-centeredness, or extremely poor impulse control in their former spouse and realize that their poor judgement played a role in terms of mate selection. It's tempting, then, to think they can become more descriminating to prevent this from happening to them again, and to a degree... they can. But some people are very, very good actors, and in the end we only know others by the behavior that they show us, so there really is no way to prevent it from happening again. You can elimiinate contenders with obvious pathologies, but... that's about it.

So where does that leave somebody whose long marriage ends due to infidelity and emotional abuse? Few will become hermits, nuns or monks, so in the end most will decide to take a chance with somebody new at some point, and hopefully they won't repeat some sort of pattern of trusting somebody who demonstrates poor character, and hopefully if they do manage to form an attachment with somebody of good character, they've managed to let go of all the emotional baggage from their failed marriage.


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

TimeHeals said:


> Look, it's only my opinion formed by my personal experience and informed by the experiences of many others, but...
> 
> I think you guys get lost in the weeds and go down too many rabbit holes sometimes (how's that for a mixed metaphor? lol Orwell would shake his head at me).
> 
> ...


Due to being out of town and on my tablet I can't break down and respond to your post how I'd like to..... So I'll be brief.

Although there are many excuses for betraying, they're just that- excuses.

To me, you're either pregnant or not. You either betray or not. 

I've seen in my time far worse situations than any I've read on TAM or other boards and yet those men & women didn't betray. So why is that? After well over 15 years of extensive research I have concluded that some people have it in them to betray and some just don't. Some just won't. They haven't it in them to perform the capitol relationship offense. 

Is it 'genes'? Maybe for some. Is it inherent weakness? Maybe for some. Is it excuse driven? Maybe for some. And so forth...

However, those who do so, do it because they want to. That's the common thread. No excuses allowed. 

They

just

wanted

to.


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

You are not responsible for anyone's actions.

If the government ordered me to round up all left-handed redheads for execution, its on me if I follow those orders. I might end up at the end of a rope for disobedience, but its still my choice.

All this "woe is me, my marriage sucks so I had to cheat" garbage is utterly despicable. If you are a betrayed spouse trying to reconcile and you get even a whiff of this type attitude, show them the door.


----------



## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Unless you are dropping them off at the AP's house, nobody drives anyone else to cheat.


Took the words out of my mouth, no one can make another cheat, if the marriage is not doing well it may create an atmosphere for bad things to happen but the final choice belongs to the cheater.

Posts like this are good for the newbies or new lurkers here, there is a lot of blame that gets passed around during dday and all to often the WS will try to hang their guilt on the BS.

Don't let them, cheating is a choice, they knew the vows they took or the commitment made and it was their decision to destroy that covenant. 
A marriage is 2 people, 2 people who should be responsible to each other and 2 people who should share the blame for a failed marriage, but you don't share bad choices that were made by the other person and if a marriage fails because of those bad choices then the bulk of the blame must fall upon the WS.


----------



## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> Although there are many excuses for betraying, they're just that- excuses.
> .



Does this mean if I start cheating on my taxes and get caught by the IRS, they won't accept the argument "People haven't evolved to pay taxes, so it's not 'natural'"?

LOL.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

TimeHeals said:


> Does this mean if I start cheating on my taxes and get caught by the IRS, they won't accept the argument "People haven't evolved to pay taxes, so it's not 'natural'"?
> 
> LOL.


Hopefully people hold their fidelity to their spouse in much greater esteem than they do their legal obligation to pay taxes.


----------



## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

staystrong said:


> Hopefully people hold their fidelity to their spouse in much greater esteem than they do their legal obligation to pay taxes.



I've never cheated on my taxes (not even when I had to pay in 3 states and had no deductions whatsoever). What's the point. It's a nice place, and it's not going to get nicer if everybody cheats on their taxes. I always figured that tax complaince is fairly good here, or we'd be like Greece.


----------



## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Betrayed spouses, when they first find out, are naturally angry but they may also feel worried that they may have somehow done something that led to their spouse's cheating....

*MattMatt*'s post is a REALLY important message for BS's. Do NOT worry or beat yourself up about this or spend any of your precious energy entertaining such thoughts! You are going to need all that energy for the long road ahead - for your healing.

*staystrong* summarized it really well (because it's so funny, the message is easy to remember):



> Unless you are dropping them off at the AP's house, nobody drives anyone else to cheat.


IF you choose R (and of course, many should not), you will have to work on your marriage. Partly because everyone who is married should work on their marriage - it's like a garden, and it won't take care of itself, it needs constant attention and TLC. It's a living thing, a separate entity - there's you, there's your spouse, and there's your marriage. 

But don't think that you're working on it because its problems CAUSED the infidelity!!! (If you want to call marriage problems "contributing factors" that's one thing, but they didn't drive that car either, did they??) After infidelity the marriage has been wounded, just as the BS has been wounded. So in addition to the regular attention and TLC that it needs, the marriage will need extra attention and special care.

And the BS also needs extra attention and special care. From the unfaithful spouse and from him or herself. And that includes being gentle with yourself, and not BLAMING yourself. NEVER blame yourself for your partner's infidelity. You can choose to be understanding of how messed up in the head your partner may have been and you can choose to be forgiving, but do NOT choose to take any of the blame for their decision to have an EA and/or PA with someone outside of your marriage.


----------



## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

hopefulgirl said:


> (If you want to call marriage problems "contributing factors".



Just more excuse making, IMO. Explain exactly how... oh... let's say... forgetting your anniversary contributed to an affair? Did it just take off the shoes? Maybe dial the cheater's mistress or ... (what's the male version of a mistress?)? Maybe it took off the panties or boxer briefs? That would be bad.

It's absurd. I think this whole line of thinking reeks of "first world" narcissism: wasn't marriage supposed to make me happy, wasn't money supposed to make me happy, wasn't a new speedboat supposed to make me happy, wasn't having kids supposed to make me happy? Wah, wah, somebody/something make me happy. Why am I not happy?

No. Real happiness/contentment--once you get beyond the basics like food, water, air, shelter, reasonable safety, and allowing yourself to compassionately connect with others--doesn't come from external sources. If you are chasing external pleasures trying to find happines, you are going to be stuck on that treadmill your whole danged life, and you're never going to be content for very long.


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

TimeHeals said:


> Does this mean if I start cheating on my taxes and get caught by the IRS, they won't accept the argument "People haven't evolved to pay taxes, so it's not 'natural'"?
> 
> LOL.


Seems like a fair argument to me!


----------



## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

TimeHeals said:


> Just more excuse making, IMO. Explain exactly how... oh... let's say... forgetting your anniversary contributed to an affair? Did it just take off the shoes? Maybe dial the cheater's mistress or ... (what's the male version of a mistress?)? Maybe it took off the panties or boxer briefs? That would be bad.
> 
> It's absurd. I think this whole line of thinking reeks of "first world" narcissism: wasn't marriage supposed to make me happy, wasn't money supposed to make me happy, wasn't a new speedboat supposed to make me happy, wasn't having kids supposed to make me happy? Wah, wah, somebody/something make me happy. Why am I not happy?
> 
> No. Real happiness/contentment--once you get beyond the basics like food, water, air, shelter, reasonable safety, and allowing yourself to compassionately connect with others--doesn't come from external sources. If you are chasing external pleasures trying to find happines, you are going to be stuck on that treadmill your whole danged life, and you're never going to be content for very long.


I wouldn't count "forgetting your anniversary" as evidence of "marriage problems! Some affairs occur in marriages that aren't having any significant marriage problems - some really happy marriages, in fact - and affairs happen in marriages all along the continuum of happy to miserable.

When an unfaithful spouse takes a hard look at what was going on at the time of the affair, he or she better see that the CAUSE of the infidelity was within - they need to own that decision to cheat. But there can be other external factors that "contributed" and helped move things along in the wrong direction - such as opportunity, friends or co-workers who screw around and suggest it's "fun," and, yes, being unhappy with the state of your marriage. 

Opportunity doesn't "excuse"... friends who cheat don't "excuse"... and neither does an unhappy marriage - of any degree - EVER "excuse" cheating. But is it important to look at the whole picture to gain a better understanding, so you can take steps to make sure those conditions can be avoided again? Of course.


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

staystrong said:


> Unless you are dropping them off at the AP's house, nobody drives anyone else to cheat.


I wish I could Double LIKE that. Made me laugh!


----------



## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

RWB said:


> I wish I could Double LIKE that. Made me laugh!


Me too. I needed to read that. Just got back from my uncle's funeral and that kinda got my mind off of that.


----------



## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

TimeHeals said:


> Just more excuse making, IMO. Explain exactly how... oh... let's say... forgetting your anniversary contributed to an affair? Did it just take off the shoes? Maybe dial the cheater's mistress or ... (what's the male version of a mistress?)? Maybe it took off the panties or boxer briefs? That would be bad.
> 
> It's absurd. I think this whole line of thinking reeks of "first world" narcissism: wasn't marriage supposed to make me happy, wasn't money supposed to make me happy, wasn't a new speedboat supposed to make me happy, wasn't having kids supposed to make me happy? Wah, wah, somebody/something make me happy. Why am I not happy?
> 
> No. Real happiness/contentment--once you get beyond the basics like food, water, air, shelter, reasonable safety, and allowing yourself to compassionately connect with others--doesn't come from external sources. If you are chasing external pleasures trying to find happines, you are going to be stuck on that treadmill your whole danged life, and you're never going to be content for very long.


Once when I tried to take my WW to task for her A she replied she wished she was married to someone who would make her happy. I just laughed. No such person. She will never be happy because she can't truly love anyone because she doesn't love herself. Yes you can be married to someone that can make you miserable but one has to look inside to find happiness.


----------



## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

hopefulgirl said:


> , so you can take steps to make sure those conditions can be avoided again? Of course.



Take what steps? Like don't get married, don't trust anybody, don't romantically bond with anybody? 

Because, other than ignoring obvious red flags, I don't know of any other way. YOU can't control what somebody else decides to do... especially when they do it behind your back, lie to you about things, and gaslight you.

I think we covered that. Most people aren't cut out for the monastery or nunnery either, so they are going to take a chance and trust somebody again most likely, and if that somebody isn't openly displaying untrustworthy qualities, it's still possible that somebody will choose to cheat. It's up to them, not you. You aren't involved in the decission to cheat on you by definition. No way to "take steps" to prevent that short of outfitting them with a lowjack and body cameras  And not even then. You would know more quickly if you did that, but who wants to live that way? Thinking you can do that is just about maintaining the illusion of control over something you have no control over.

You get to control whether you decide to cheat or not. You get to decide what you are going to do, what situations you will put yourself in, and so on.

The best you can do is to try to avoid bonding with somebody who obviously has those kind character issues, and the only way you know if they have those kind of character issues is if they reveal that character through actions or if they straight up tell you (not likely). It can still happen. The idea you get to control that is a mirage.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Actually, they did it intentionally...all of it. Unless they are mentally impaired and weren't under supervision, it was intentional. 

Everything, from the very beginning to the trauma of the divorce proceedings and everything in between was all intentional.

It was designed to provide the most severe impact that could be obtained. It was done with malice and aforethought. 

That's why it is so tough to reconcile. How can a person be sorry when their actions were calculated?


----------



## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Oh, that's not even close!
> 
> My wife cheated and I had a stupid revenge affair, but we hung on and got back on track.
> 
> But I accept responsibility for my affair.


Don't feed the trolls.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BURNT KEP said:


> Don't feed the trolls.


Well, they are banned now, so there you have it.


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

After it was confirmed my WW had cheated I began to think of everything I could have possibly done wrong in our marriage. It took about a month for me to figure out that her affair was completely on her. I didn't cheat, physically or emotionally abuse her, I wasn't the perfect husband either. Whatever I did made her believe our marriage was over. Funny she didn't tell me this as she sought out my replacement. Remarkably she ended the affair before I found out and had returned to the marriage. One of my mistakes was placing her on a pedestal. I'll never understand her cheating one hundred percent. Our marriage wasn't perfect before the affair but certainly could have been corrected. Instead she decided to kill me on the inside. She left me a walking shell of a man that even contemplated suicide. With individual and marriage counseling I have somewhat bounced back but I will never be the same. I used to be a joker that had fun and made everybody laugh, now I speak few words and laughing is a memory. Don't get me wrong I occasionally laugh but not even close to the extent I did before. 

Why? Why destroy the one person you claim to love as you could love no other? Why embarrass your spouse in such a humiliating way? Why? I don't think I will ever understand these questions. Several have tried and I don't think there really is an answer. I've been destroyed and hurt beyond belief. So wish I never had to go through this crap.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> Why?


Because they felt justified in doing so.



> Why destroy the one person you claim to love as you could love no other?


Because the fact of the matter is, we don't know ourselves and we don't realize we can love another. When she found that out, she likely got really angry because she could have given it all to someone else rather than having to do what you wanted. Not that you were wrong. This is a guess about what she might have thought. It may or may not be correct. It hopefully will help you get a grip on yourself and know you are worth more and she likely didn't deserve you.



> Why embarrass your spouse in such a humiliating way? Why?


When she realized what she was missing by being with you and not exploring and enjoying her life the way she wanted, but having to do as you said and not as she really wanted, she decided to get revenge. Also, lawyers have to make money. When anyone is getting a divorce, who are they told to get to protect themselves? The shark, right? Well, he/she got that rep by crushing someone's wife/husband over and over again. 

Friends and family want the one they care about to get the very best deal because they want to believe them and that is a way of convincing themselves and anyone else that they were in the right and not the wrong. 

I do believe this is what happens. I am not writing this to hurt, only to help you get a grip. Please seek counseling to help you cope. Going through this stuff is horrible. 



> I don't think I will ever understand these questions. Several have tried and I don't think there really is an answer. I've been destroyed and hurt beyond belief. So wish I never had to go through this crap.


Understanding may not be necessary. It makes it easier to accept. Acceptance and belief that you are worth more is what you need. Don't try to forgive yourself. Just try to find some hope and hold onto it. Not hope in others, find it within yourself.


----------



## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

TimeHeals said:


> Take what steps? Like don't get married, don't trust anybody, don't romantically bond with anybody?
> 
> Because, other than ignoring obvious red flags, I don't know of any other way. YOU can't control what somebody else decides to do... especially when they do it behind your back, lie to you about things, and gaslight you.


Speaking on behalf of people who seek to reconcile - and I get the impression you don't generally favor that - the unfaithful spouse who wants R has to take steps to avoid as much as possible any contributing factors that increased one's "vulnerability" to having an affair (as Shirley Glass in NOT Just Friends calls it), such as opportunity (NC), friends who think cheating is "fun" (drop those friendships), and marriage "problems." 

One person can't work on the marriage alone, so that becomes a joint project, even if it was a happy marriage before the infidelity, because every marriage needs repair work after it's been wounded BY infidelity (and those marriages that did have problems before the affair need extra work).

I don't believe there are any guarantees in life. I used to think my husband would never cheat on me because of the kind of man he was, and also because it had happened to him (before I knew him). Well, I found out I was wrong.

I also believe that someone can make personal sacrifices and do really kind things for you, and for your aging parents, and for many other people he's not even related to, and prove himself to be a person of (most of the time) "good character" and STILL go through a period of physical illness and mental illness when he isn't "in his right mind." And do something horrible during that period that he hates himself for.

I have no guarantee that he won't do it again, but I don't believe he will, and he's doing everything he can to make sure that it won't.

But in keeping with the topic of how his infidelity wasn't my fault, I want to emphasize that at no point in MC has there been even the slightest suggestion that any of the work that we're doing has to do with fixing something that "caused" him to cheat. We're healing our marriage, we're strengthening our marriage - and I'm healing too - but he cheated because of HIS bad decisions. I have understanding and compassion for him because of his health issues at that time, but they are no excuse because he wasn't delusional or psychotic.


----------



## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

drifting on said:


> After it was confirmed my WW had cheated I began to think of everything I could have possibly done wrong in our marriage. It took about a month for me to figure out that her affair was completely on her. I didn't cheat, physically or emotionally abuse her, I wasn't the perfect husband either. Whatever I did made her believe our marriage was over. Funny she didn't tell me this as she sought out my replacement. Remarkably she ended the affair before I found out and had returned to the marriage. One of my mistakes was placing her on a pedestal. I'll never understand her cheating one hundred percent. Our marriage wasn't perfect before the affair but certainly could have been corrected. Instead she decided to kill me on the inside. She left me a walking shell of a man that even contemplated suicide. With individual and marriage counseling I have somewhat bounced back but I will never be the same. I used to be a joker that had fun and made everybody laugh, now I speak few words and laughing is a memory. Don't get me wrong I occasionally laugh but not even close to the extent I did before.
> 
> Why? Why destroy the one person you claim to love as you could love no other? Why embarrass your spouse in such a humiliating way? Why? I don't think I will ever understand these questions. Several have tried and I don't think there really is an answer. I've been destroyed and hurt beyond belief. So wish I never had to go through this crap.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you dwell on this then you are allowing her A define your life. Not saying to forget it or try to minimize it but you have to move forward. If you need IC to help with this please do this. Bottom line you have to decide to move past this. Otherwise you will continue to struggle with this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Loyallad

I am eight months past d-day and we are attempting reconciliation. What I wrote here was how I felt the first two months post d-day. Although I am a changed man and still not close to what I was I don't dwell on this much. Infidelity has a unique way of changing the betrayed in many facets. Being only eight months out I hold hope I will one day enjoy life as I did pre-affair. In no way will her affair define who I am completely but it has changed me. I don't understand the thoughts or lack of thoughts to cheat. I most likely never will, I can live with that now. That being said how does the wayward spouse think that this will improve their marriage? Why not divorce and play the field or sow your oats as they say? My problem is I don't understand the thinking behind cheating. Now I'm the one person she can't live without, the only person she could truly love, yet she gave herself to someone else. This baffles me beyond comprehension.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Why? Why destroy the one person you claim to love as you could love no other? Why embarrass your spouse in such a humiliating way? Why? I don't think I will ever understand these questions. Several have tried and I don't think there really is an answer. I've been destroyed and hurt beyond belief. So wish I never had to go through this crap."

This is exactly why I would NEVER stay with a cheater.


----------



## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

hopefulgirl said:


> Speaking on behalf of people who seek to reconcile - and I get the impression you don't generally favor that - the unfaithful spouse who wants R has to take steps to avoid as much as possible any contributing factors that increased one's "vulnerability" to having an affair (as Shirley Glas.



If somebody is selling you the idea that you can keep somebody else from cheating on you, then you are being conned and sold snake oil. They're preying on maladaptive coping mechanisms.

I don't know much about Dr. Glass, but I do know that she says she sees a lot of people who were happy in their marriages until they had an affair.

So they were happy, they were content, and they cheated.

What are you going to do to stop them from doing that? Nothing. Like I said, this is--at best--a mirage (denial), a crude coping mechanism. There are no steps you can take to keep your spouse from cheating. You get to control yourself, what you do, the situations you put yourself into. It's not the otherway around.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

That feeling when you first fall in love, when someone makes you the center of their world, the thoughts that you made a mistake when you chose the first time, the thoughts that you didn't really know what you wanted when you married the first time, the thoughts that you missed out on something or that you could have something better, the thoughts that you aren't happy for whatever reason, or that you may never get another opportunity again, are strong possibilities for infidelity. The other is just plain flat out revenge for whatever they think you did to treat them badly.


----------



## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

drifting on said:


> Loyallad
> 
> I am eight months past d-day and we are attempting reconciliation. What I wrote here was how I felt the first two months post d-day. Although I am a changed man and still not close to what I was I don't dwell on this much. Infidelity has a unique way of changing the betrayed in many facets. Being only eight months out I hold hope I will one day enjoy life as I did pre-affair. In no way will her affair define who I am completely but it has changed me. I don't understand the thoughts or lack of thoughts to cheat. I most likely never will, I can live with that now. That being said how does the wayward spouse think that this will improve their marriage? Why not divorce and play the field or sow your oats as they say? My problem is I don't understand the thinking behind cheating. Now I'm the one person she can't live without, the only person she could truly love, yet she gave herself to someone else. This baffles me beyond comprehension.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't understand the thinking or lack there of that WS have when having an A. I certainly don't understand my WW's thinking on cheating on me other than she is a very selfish, childish, spoiled person that thinks only of herself and convinced herself the POSOM was what she wanted and never thought about the fallout and damage she caused.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

TimeHeals said:


> If somebody is selling you the idea that you can keep somebody else from cheating on you, then you are being conned and sold snake oil. They're preying on maladaptive coping mechanisms.
> 
> I don't know much about Dr. Glass, but I do know that she says she sees a lot of people who were happy in their marriages until they had an affair.
> 
> ...


I think it's a way for people to try and make sense of what seems utterly nonsensical. Giving the BS and WS insight into how each other was thinking, and the WS on what he/she was thinking is a very common experience. It's too put things into a context of how to talk about the A during R. And in part it's about how you feel you can love two people at the same time, and how painful that is to the BS. A good book to anchor people during the blaming and the shouting and the mind movies, etc. It's one tool in the toolkit. 

Granted, the A in that book was not really that torrid, and didn't involve a lot of cheater's tactics and deceptions which would drive a BS crazy. And I guess it makes the WS seem human, which is something many people don't do.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I think it's a way for people to try and make sense of what seems utterly nonsensical. Giving the BS and WS insight into how each other was thinking, and the WS on what he/she was thinking is a very common experience. It's too put things into a context of how to talk about the A during R. And in part it's about how you feel you can love two people at the same time, and how painful that is to the BS. A good book to anchor people during the blaming and the shouting and the mind movies, etc. It's one tool in the toolkit.
> 
> Granted, the A in that book was not really that torrid, and didn't involve a lot of cheater's tactics and deceptions which would drive a BS crazy. And I guess it makes the WS seem human, which is something many people don't do.



Well, if it was a one time thing and then she/he felt so badly that they came and confessed and worked on the marriage and it didn't happen again, it makes a little more sense according to the book. Anything more than that, and it's likely not worth the effort needed to put it back together. 

If you want to look at it that way, it's possible anyone can get into a position where they might do something they regret, although it's much less likely with some folks.

As an example, I know a woman right now that is going through her mid-life change and is married. I've talked with her and she is not happy with her marriage. She says her mother has never liked her husband and I can tell she is questioning her choices. She seems to be thinking she has one last window of opportunity before it's all over. 

I know, if she was around the right man, he could talk her into giving him a try and testing her true desire for her husband. I can tell she is close to the edge. I keep the personal talk to a minimum, when I have to talk with her. 

Sometimes I think I'm an idiot. I could easily have sex and I haven't had it in a long time. I just can't do it. I can't hurt her and her family like that. It would be her choice, but she is ripe for the picking. It would not be too difficult, I suspect, even for me. 

I can't and won't do that. I won't become the guy(s) who did that to me. I hate them too much to ever be like them. Hate isn't a strong enough word.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

drifting on said:


> After it was confirmed my WW had cheated I began to think of everything I could have possibly done wrong in our marriage. It took about a month for me to figure out that her affair was completely on her. I didn't cheat, physically or emotionally abuse her, I wasn't the perfect husband either. Whatever I did made her believe our marriage was over. Funny she didn't tell me this as she sought out my replacement. Remarkably she ended the affair before I found out and had returned to the marriage. One of my mistakes was placing her on a pedestal. I'll never understand her cheating one hundred percent. Our marriage wasn't perfect before the affair but certainly could have been corrected. Instead she decided to kill me on the inside. She left me a walking shell of a man that even contemplated suicide. With individual and marriage counseling I have somewhat bounced back but I will never be the same. I used to be a joker that had fun and made everybody laugh, now I speak few words and laughing is a memory. Don't get me wrong I occasionally laugh but not even close to the extent I did before.
> 
> Why? Why destroy the one person you claim to love as you could love no other? Why embarrass your spouse in such a humiliating way? Why? I don't think I will ever understand these questions. Several have tried and I don't think there really is an answer. I've been destroyed and hurt beyond belief. So wish I never had to go through this crap.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





drifting on said:


> Loyallad
> 
> I am eight months past d-day and we are attempting reconciliation. What I wrote here was how I felt the first two months post d-day. Although I am a changed man and still not close to what I was I don't dwell on this much. Infidelity has a unique way of changing the betrayed in many facets. Being only eight months out I hold hope I will one day enjoy life as I did pre-affair. In no way will her affair define who I am completely but it has changed me. I don't understand the thoughts or lack of thoughts to cheat. I most likely never will, I can live with that now. That being said how does the wayward spouse think that this will improve their marriage? Why not divorce and play the field or sow your oats as they say? My problem is I don't understand the thinking behind cheating. Now I'm the one person she can't live without, the only person she could truly love, *yet she gave herself to someone else. This baffles me beyond comprehension.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sorry to multi quote and use up so much space, but I wanted to mention how much these two posts jumped out at me. It mirrors my own feelings very closely, especially the way she expresses that you (or I) was the only one she ever loved, can't live without, etc....Then, bam!

I suppose she's said it was all because she felt you'd lost interest, didn't adore her the same way, etc.

Anyway, I'm glad you say you're not dwelling on this too much. That's more than I can say.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I can't and won't do that. I won't become the guy(s) who did that to me. I hate them too much to ever be like them. Hate isn't a strong enough word.


Please keep your conviction strong. 

Yet, if you had not been betrayed, maybe you would be having sex with her. Many men are compelled to believe what a WW says about her H. 

Side note: I still have no idea what mine said in total about me. Boring, controlling, lazy, smelly, annoying .. they trash the hell out of their BHs. I remember one time during her A I went to trim her mom's hedges as a favor. I was called a "suck up". Sorry, what? Imagine the contortions that must morphed into in one of their chats. It's honestly mind-blowing.. two smug, obnoxious cheaters criticizing their spouses. I called her on that and she said "Well, that's what people do in affairs." No, don't be making up crap behind my back. 

Unless you know her husband and her mom, you'd have to question whether it's the truth. Maybe the mom is influenced by the wife. Tell her to start a "thinking about cheating" thread on TAM.


----------



## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

It's probably worth mentioning that the converse is also true for the same reason: if your spouse is faithful, that says something about them, not you. It would also be a kind of hubris to think that their good boundaries, their values, and their integrity are the result of something you do. Goodness knows there are some faithful spouses who remain faithful to some real buttheads in need of a character transplant 

More often, though, you see that kind of hubris when people who are happily married encounter others traumatized by cheating, and it's for the same reason: they want to believe that they can control something or that it cannot happen to them.

It's worth noting, though, if you have a faithful spouse, that's all on them. They choose to behave that way. It says something about them, and it might be worth appreciating


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Please keep your conviction strong.
> 
> Yet, if you had not been betrayed, maybe you would be having sex with her. Many men are compelled to believe what a WW says about her H.
> 
> ...


I was in a EA. I realize that now. I was between marriages and this woman was being abused by her husband. It pulled at my heart strings. She had two children and I was not able to see mine the way I wanted. I was heartbroken and she and her two kids were a salve. I was using them and didn't know it. I still feel love for her and her children. 

It never went physical, and she made sure to keep away from me in public. Her husband didn't do the things she wanted with her and the kids. I don't know why. I just don't remember, and at the time, I was hurting so much, even just a little bit of tenderness toward me was an attraction I was unable to withstand. 

I broke it off when she talked about us getting married. It shocked me into the reality of the responsibility I was facing. I have seen her around a few times. I don't say anything to her. 

I can tell by the look on her face, she is not at all happy with her circumstances. I just hope she doesn't think she wasn't good enough for me. That's not true. I wasn't good enough for her. 

So, I have an idea of what it takes to stay away. I won't let myself go there. I saw the pain it caused her and I am very sorry for that. I wish she had the guts to get away from him. She is a lovely woman. 


I guess they won't talk because they know they did wrong. If it was just a one time thing or something that others would understand, they would talk. I mean, I've talked with my counselor and he said he'd entertain her coming to a few sessions and discussing all of it or some of it. I haven't asked her. I haven't tried to contact her. I wouldn't know how. 


Truthfully, I thought about telling her about TAM. Sometimes, though, I like the little bit of anonymity I have. I will think about it and how to tell her. I think she needs it now. It could help her to do the right things for herself and her family, whatever that is. 

I'm not against divorce. That may be a surprise to some, but it's always been true. I just think the commitment of marriage is such an important life changing thing, it's not worth thinking of as we do a half eaten burger that we realize has mustard on it when we asked for ketchup.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

It's a good thing you didn't let it go further. 

And honestly, do you really know what she said was true or not?

Maybe she's a difficult person to deal with in real life. 

I don't think that you weren't good enough for her. Maybe the fact you weren't willing to cheat with her shows that you are more than good enough but you got caught up in an EA. Now you know better. If she's the type to not divorce until something better comes along, perhaps you should reconsider her who she is.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

staystrong said:


> It's a good thing you didn't let it go further.
> 
> And honestly, do you really know what she said was true or not?
> 
> ...


Well, yes, I do know that at least some, if not most of what she said was true. I'd seen her husband and her in public. He knew me. He threatened me at least twice. Once with his cousin in tow and him with a nine millimeter in a shoulder holster. He showed it to me. I called his bluff and told him he didn't want to shoot me at that time in such a public space. I knew what he'd done and I thought he needed to change. She was too good for him and he didn't appreciate her. 

Another time, he called my home and threatened to come up and do me physical harm. I thanked him for calling and told him I'd be waiting for him. Come on by. He didn't. I've had enough experience to understand.

I do appreciate the thoughts that she was only waiting for a man to take care of her. I think you are right and it's likely she didn't have the feelings I thought she did. I was in dire need of affection, and would take anything I could get as a sign of sincere love. I am a fool. Sh!t...


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I was in dire need of affection, and would take anything I could get as a sign of sincere love. I am a fool. Sh!t...


I think most people, pushed far enough, would feel this way. True stoics are few and far between.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jld,

That really hurt. Just wanted to let you know that you have a way of hurting me that sort of feels a little back handed. 

I've never thought I was so intelligent and forthright that I could do no wrong. In fact, I am one of the last people you know that would think that. Why do you think it has taken so long for me to heal?

Partly because I believe I did wrong. Partly because I don't know how I could have done better under the circumstances. Partly because I am trying to live and heal under accusations that aren't true, while easily could be and so, I have no way of proving other than through time and living, that they are wrong.

I'm almost 52. Don't you think that plays a factor in my thoughts about my chances of having what I always wanted? I've never been a player. If I was, I would have taken that opportunity and ran with it and not even cared enough to share my experiences here. Maybe what I shared will help others on the edge, like I was, to keep from going too far? I hope. That's why I share, and to get the help that staystrong gave. He helped me realize something I hadn't. 

If I am mistaken on your reasoning for picking out that one statement of mine, I apologize. This isn't a knee jerk reaction. It's a sincere statement of my feelings.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> jld,
> 
> That really hurt. Just wanted to let you know that you have a way of hurting me that sort of feels a little back handed.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the apology. 

Few of us are stoic, 2ntnuf. And maybe even stoics have their vulnerabilities. Most if us are just doing the best we can with what we have to work with, namely ourselves.

We all share to help someone. We also share to work things out for ourselves.

I think you avoided a lot of trouble but not going physical with her, and by, even now, limiting your exposure to her. If she divorces, you can revisit all this.

2ntnuf, you do sound healthier than you used to. I think you are healing. You used to sound so angry, but anger is just a cover for fear or hurt. Now you seem more able to address those directly.

Age is not an issue. When you are ready, you are going to find a lovely lady who is going to like you just the way you are. Believe in it. She will come when you are ready.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks for the explanation. It makes a difference.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Thanks for the explanation. It makes a difference.


You are welcome.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jld,

I challenge you to question your stoicism. Sometimes it comes out in passive aggressiveness.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> jld,
> 
> I challenge you to question your stoicism. Sometimes it comes out in passive aggressiveness.


I am not stoic. I am not even sure my husband is, though he more like that than I would ever be.

I am highly emotional.


----------



## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> They didn't have to cheat. It really isn't your fault!
> 
> Whatever problems you have in your marriage there's no excuse for infidelity.



It's obvious to me now, that if someone cheats, it's a reflection on their own issues regardless of the issues in their relationship. 

To cheat, is to be able to lie and deceive. It's that's simple. 

There isn't any any relationship that does not have ups and downs. If a relationship were truly awful, the option of divorce is attainable. 

In my opinion, cheating is more about the internal character of the cheater rather than the character of the cheated on spouse.

Cheaters cheat for many reasons, more often than not, cheaters justify cheating and it's not unusual they will blame shift it on the person they are cheating on. There are many volunteers who will cheat with you, cheating is easier than being accountable and proactive in working out why someone chooses to cheat in the first place.

It's not surprising that cheaters will lay fault at their betrayed spouse for stepping out on them.

Ironically, the WS spends little time on seeing their affair partner's faults. So many cheaters cheat with less than quality people.


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Forest

It's not to say I don't think about it every damn day but I have accepted what my WW has done. It does not mean I condone or am still not hurt by her actions, only that I have accepted her affair as a whole. This took me six months and numerous MC sessions. I still have mind movies, I think of them together, kissing, groping and everything else. One aspect that is still difficult to me is she wore her wedding ring during the times they were together. I asked that she stop wearing it for this very reason. However the ring is a token of my vows and not hers. WW is wearing her ring again although I plan on buying a different ring. 

You can't forget an affair by your spouse and even if I divorce I am trading one set of problems for another. My WW is doing everything right at the moment but I question how long can she keep this up. Infidelity sucks for the betrayed spouse individually. Some parts of her affair were not as difficult to accept as other parts. But when she told me I'm the only one, couldn't love anyone like me, I question why it was so easy to just give yourself away. I thought she was more than that. That she respected herself more and how beautiful intimacy is between a couple. I'm old fashioned I admit, but she really couldn't value herself more than giving it away for some POSOM who said she was beautiful? I've said that all throughout our marriage! Ugh!! I'll never understand this!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

At some point assigning blame, fault, and guilt is a cul-de-sac.

No, you shouldn't let cheaters off the hook and if I had a magic wand I wish my ex would have taken accountability.

But she didn't, and won't, and likely will never.

So in the end I can feel justified in placing blame and accountability on her, but there's no way to force her to feel something that she isn't gonna do.

And neither is the group of people she's surrounded herself with to support her going to make her.

So all I can do is be introspective, try to learn, and let go. I guess.

But blaming her no longer helps me, and hasn't for a very long time.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

drifting on said:


> After it was confirmed my WW had cheated I began to think of everything I could have possibly done wrong in our marriage. It took about a month for me to figure out that her affair was completely on her. I didn't cheat, physically or emotionally abuse her, I wasn't the perfect husband either. Whatever I did made her believe our marriage was over. Funny she didn't tell me this as she sought out my replacement. Remarkably she ended the affair before I found out and had returned to the marriage. One of my mistakes was placing her on a pedestal. I'll never understand her cheating one hundred percent. Our marriage wasn't perfect before the affair but certainly could have been corrected. Instead she decided to kill me on the inside. She left me a walking shell of a man that even contemplated suicide. With individual and marriage counseling I have somewhat bounced back but I will never be the same. I used to be a joker that had fun and made everybody laugh, now I speak few words and laughing is a memory. Don't get me wrong I occasionally laugh but not even close to the extent I did before.
> 
> Why? Why destroy the one person you claim to love as you could love no other? Why embarrass your spouse in such a humiliating way? Why? I don't think I will ever understand these questions. Several have tried and I don't think there really is an answer. I've been destroyed and hurt beyond belief. So wish I never had to go through this crap.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


After my wife's affair she said: "Whatever happened to the fun-loving Matt I used to know?"

I was so shocked by her question that I don't recall answering her.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

drifting on said:


> Forest
> 
> It's not to say I don't think about it every damn day but I have accepted what my WW has done. It does not mean I condone or am still not hurt by her actions, only that I have accepted her affair as a whole. This took me six months and numerous MC sessions. I still have mind movies, I think of them together, kissing, groping and everything else. One aspect that is still difficult to me is she wore her wedding ring during the times they were together. I asked that she stop wearing it for this very reason. However the ring is a token of my vows and not hers. WW is wearing her ring again although I plan on buying a different ring.
> 
> ...


Oh my word, you are taking thoughts out of my head again!

The wedding ring issue-
Giving herself away-
Thinking she was better than that-
Falling for some shallow, BS compliments- (then forgetting I'd said the same things, and meant it)-
The completely disbelief of her actions-

All the same here.

Another thing I've stressed to her was his true colors under pressure. When I called POSOM, he was absolutely terrified, threatened legal action, protective orders, stay away, etc. He knew he was dealing with an angry, possibly unstable jealous husband, that just might go violent....Yet he never once asked about her, or her safety.

Here I go again.

Trust me. Whatever pain, shame, anguish she's going thru due to her actions, it is not as debilitating as what I've been going thru. Never was, never will be.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> After my wife's affair she said: "Whatever happened to the fun-loving Matt I used to know?"
> 
> I was so shocked by her question that I don't recall answering her.


That should've felt like a stinger that was already embedded, and they want to force it yet deeper in, and your not supposed to feel anything.


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Mattmatt

When I would go to parties whether friends or family I enjoyed making people laugh. I would laugh with them and generally have a great time. After WW's affair I sit by myself or find an unoccupied area to sit. Making people laugh or laughing myself was no longer enjoyable to me. Now I'm on medication and seeing an individual and marriage counselor. My WW and MC asked if the man I was pre-affair would ever return. I looked at both of them and said that man was killed in the nuking of my marriage. My sister once told me she chooses to be happy each morning when she wakes up, I choose to wish this is a nightmare and I'm about to wake up and find this didn't happen to me. Guess what, not today!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

drifting on said:


> Mattmatt
> 
> When I would go to parties whether friends or family I enjoyed making people laugh. I would laugh with them and generally have a great time. After WW's affair I sit by myself or find an unoccupied area to sit. Making people laugh or laughing myself was no longer enjoyable to me. Now I'm on medication and seeing an individual and marriage counselor. My WW and MC asked if the man I was pre-affair would ever return. I looked at both of them and said that man was killed in the nuking of my marriage. My sister once told me she chooses to be happy each morning when she wakes up, I choose to wish this is a nightmare and I'm about to wake up and find this didn't happen to me. Guess what, not today!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


'

That brought a tear to my eye. I haven't heard your story. Have you posted a thread?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

drifting on said:


> After WW's affair I sit by myself or find an unoccupied area to sit. Making people laugh or laughing myself was no longer enjoyable to me. Now I'm on medication and seeing an individual and marriage counselor.


I don't know how you guys do it. How can it be worth all of that?


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Forest

Sorry to hear you are feeling most of what I'm feeling. I was able to speak to my WW's AP on two occasions. Once by phone where I let him know I knew of the affair and then asked him questions to find out the truth. Second time was in person and it took everything I had not to beat his a$$ into the ground. I know through both a mutual friend and my WW that he is scared I will come after him. My WW sees what a coward he is. My WW had an affair with her co-worker. I made him quit once I found out. Now he is unemployed, I notified his wife, and I'm still planning a little something for him at Christmas. I treated her affair as an invasion to my family. WW suffers consequences each and every day, why should he get away without suffering any. I've heard the argument he had no vows to me but he knew she was married. Since he knew I take that as a slap to the face. He needs to suffer consequences I impose on him! This is making my blood boil all over again. So glad to see therapy is going so well for me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Bandit.45

No I haven't posted my story as I'm in reconciliation. Why would that matter you ask? If I told my story I don't believe one person on this forum would advise me to stay. I won't make it through reconciliation if everyone says to kick her to the curb. WW has one chance, mess it up I'm gone. But for now I have chosen reconciliation whether I'm right or wrong only time will tell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Ripper

I've read stories on here that people can reconcile. I love my wife very much even though she has hurt me badly. Stories like mrs j Adams, can't sit still, and others have inspired me to try this once. I wasn't perfect before the affair and neither was she. But after many sessions of MC we know what we did wrong. Maybe this chance is what we need to get it right. I would have many regrets if I just divorced her. So I put everything I have into reconciliation as does my WW. If I return to the fun loving person I was before the affair I will jump for joy. But at seven months post d-day I'm not there just quite yet. I hope to be one day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

drifting on said:


> Mattmatt
> 
> When I would go to parties whether friends or family I enjoyed making people laugh. I would laugh with them and generally have a great time. After WW's affair I sit by myself or find an unoccupied area to sit. Making people laugh or laughing myself was no longer enjoyable to me. Now I'm on medication and seeing an individual and marriage counselor. My WW and MC asked if the man I was pre-affair would ever return. I looked at both of them and said that man was killed in the nuking of my marriage. My sister once told me she chooses to be happy each morning when she wakes up, I choose to wish this is a nightmare and I'm about to wake up and find this didn't happen to me. Guess what, not today!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I just wanted to say, I am so sorry for your pain. I do hope that one day, you will wake up and be yourself again.


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Pidge70

Thank you. I also hope to become myself once again. I have read some of your story on the reconciliation thread. I wish you and your spouse both good wishes and success.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

drifting on said:


> Pidge70
> 
> Thank you. I also hope to become myself once again. I have read some of your story on the reconciliation thread. I wish you and your spouse both good wishes and success.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's very kind of you to say, thank you sir.


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Mattmatt
> 
> When I would go to parties whether friends or family I enjoyed making people laugh. I would laugh with them and generally have a great time. After WW's affair I sit by myself or find an unoccupied area to sit. Making people laugh or laughing myself was no longer enjoyable to me. Now I'm on medication and seeing an individual and marriage counselor. My WW and MC asked if the man I was pre-affair would ever return. I looked at both of them and said that man was killed in the nuking of my marriage. My sister once told me she chooses to be happy each morning when she wakes up, I choose to wish this is a nightmare and I'm about to wake up and find this didn't happen to me. Guess what, not today!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey bro!

You can't worry about or wish it never happened to you. It did and it devastated you. A majority of the devastation is in our MINDS.

Make up your mind to live better than you were before. You have to let the ex go and treat them like a friend who betrayed you badly.

What would you do a bout a friend who stole your car?
Who broke into your moms house and stole money out of her safe?
Who continuously was setting you up behind your back with enemies?
Who caught you drunken in a weak moment and knocked you out by hitting your temple. While you were unconscious they hit you 21 more times in your face and upper torso, breaking your nose, a cheek bone and bruising your face badly, you saw a cam video and the only reason they stopped was because they broke their hand?

Let her go, something bad happened to you and live to the max. We cannot be in fear of these things happening. We cannot have no faith in our judgment when it happens again. We can make better choices in relationship partners. We don't have to get into a full blown relationship with someone who is wild just because the sex was good.

I know all of us can do a lot better.

I get down too.


----------



## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

drifting on said:


> When I would go to parties whether friends or family I enjoyed making people laugh. I would laugh with them and generally have a great time. After WW's affair I sit by myself or find an unoccupied area to sit. Making people laugh or laughing myself was no longer enjoyable to me. Now I'm on medication and seeing an individual and marriage counselor. My WW and MC asked if the man I was pre-affair would ever return. I looked at both of them and said that man was killed in the nuking of my marriage. My sister once told me she chooses to be happy each morning when she wakes up, I choose to wish this is a nightmare and I'm about to wake up and find this didn't happen to me. Guess what, not today!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're only 8 months out - it's still REALLY fresh. I felt half dead in the first year too. If you haven't already, I highly recommend reading Shirley Glass' book NOT Just Friends and that your wife read Linda MacDonald's book How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair.

The first book helps you to understand that you're dealing with not only something almost identical to posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), but also with grief: we have suffered many losses, such as the loss of the marriage that we thought we had, the loss of the trust that you had in your spouse, and the loss of a sense of security that being in a marriage - where you both took vows - gave you before. And the second book can really make a big difference in helping unfaithful spouses to really "get" what we're going through, and it helps them to do an even better job at helping us to heal. (I read that book before giving it to my husband, highlighted parts I wanted him to really pay attention to, and then had him read it.)

Best of luck to you. Some of us need medication - glad you recognized that and took that step. With MC and a remorseful spouse who really makes an effort, AND with the passage of time (because grief always requires time to become less overwhelming), it does get better.


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Treyvion

I understand exactly what you are saying, although I can't help but wish it didn't happen. It did plain and simple. I have been dealing with this rationally and taken every step to protect myself. I have since gotten counseling and medication. That hurts as I have never been hurt this bad in my life. It's embarrassing to see MC and IC and need medication. I feel weak and completely destroyed. I will recover but will I recover fully? I hope too, I hope to once again live and not just survive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Hopefulgirl

Thank you for the suggestions. We have in fact read both books and they are helpful. WW is very remorseful and doing all she can. I honestly couldn't ask for more from her. I need to make changes within myself. It was hard to see all my faults in therapy to the point I now hate mirrors! Our MC is awesome and helped tremendously, starting on my second IC though as the first wasn't so good. I appreciate you saying it gets easier with time. I firmly believe that is what I need most at the moment. Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Treyvion
> 
> I understand exactly what you are saying, although I can't help but wish it didn't happen. It did plain and simple. I have been dealing with this rationally and taken every step to protect myself. I have since gotten counseling and medication. That hurts as I have never been hurt this bad in my life. It's embarrassing to see MC and IC and need medication. I feel weak and completely destroyed. I will recover but will I recover fully? I hope too, I hope to once again live and not just survive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Being in the gym and being physically active in a competitive fashion will get rid of the "weak" feeling. You have to stay moving forward. You took a heavy hit, but have to regain balance and momentum.

Also getting back into things that are/were fun for you will be great. You have to live life and enjoy it. Getting back into a relationship with someone you like that gives you the appropriate level of intimacy you need will help you keep the past in the past.


----------



## homedepot (May 13, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> They didn't have to cheat. It really isn't your fault!
> 
> Whatever problems you have in your marriage there's no excuse for infidelity.



You ignore some one enough and don't do your thing in bed, you best believe you play a part in it.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

homedepot said:


> You ignore some one enough and don't do your thing in bed, you best believe you play a part in it.


Justice = Divorce

Revenge = Infidelity


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Justice = Divorce
> 
> Revenge = Infidelity


Too right, 2ntnuf!

You can play a part in a relationship being ended, by divorce, but not by it ending with your spouse cheating on you.


----------

