# Consequences of choosing to cheat



## douglmiller (3 mo ago)

When a woman chooses to cheat, she is also making a choice to break her wedding vows and end her marriage. She is also choosing to inflict the worse possible pain and heartache on her husband when he learns of her cheating. She should realize that reconciliation with her husband is most likely not going to happen. Every time he looks at her, he will visualize her screwing the other man. He will know he cannot trust her at all. Every call, every text, and every trip outside the home will cause him anxiety. This is the choice a woman makes when she decides to cheat. As she spends more and more time with the other man, she will be pulling away from her husband, emotionally and physically. And sooner or later, he will notice. I wonder if more women were aware of all the repercussions of their choice to cheat if they might choose not to, and try to work on their marriage instead—or get a divorce before acting as if they were already single.
I can only guess that it is very similar for the wife when her husband chooses to cheat.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

So, what else is new? Are you here to proselytize, or is there a question? Besides, from what I've read, most people get away with cheating and many stay in their marriage.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

This is why it’s a dealbreaker for me, as I think it changes how you see your spouse. You might be able to reconcile, but now suspicion will always be there where it wasn’t before the infidelity. Other people have successfully reconciled after cheating, but it seems like a tough road that I’m not willing to travel.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Dealbreaker for me as well. Cheating isn’t about sex, it’s about lying. Cheaters lie. Always. Therefore once someone cheats, nothing they say means anything because everything is a lie. The whole relationship was nothing but a trick. Nothing to reconcile as the relationship was never real.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I believe if you read a lot of the cheating threads on this forum you will find out that many people are actually completely willing to completely compromise their existence. Women do it for provision and men do it because “I love her.” Outside of that the remaining are just gutless and chose fear instead of an actual loving marriage.

It’s easy to do nothing and stay in a miserable existence. People are SO lazy they rather be cheated on than actually do all the work of getting out and preserving their dignity.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

Man this is a loaded post.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

There is not much logic that emanates from one's nether regions. I guess many don't think about repurcussions because they either believe they won't get caught, don't care if they get caught and are planning to split anyways, or they simply are thinking with the other head type thing.

It's a shame because after humpty dumpy falls off the wall all the kings army and all the kings men can't put humpty back together again.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

That post kind of sums it all up.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

My ex cheated, was a red line for me, so I refused to talk about reconciliation. And she has hated me ever since. Funny isn't it?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


douglmiller said:



I can only guess that it is very similar for the wife when her husband chooses to cheat.

Click to expand...

*I think before the Women's Equality movement and women regularly joining the workforce, cheating was mostly a man's sport. Their wives could do little about it because they were trapped at home with a litter of 5 or 7 kids and nowhere else to go. Most had no education past high school (or they'd gone to college so their degree could rot in a desk drawer) and most had no work experience at all. So they were literally stuck and financially dependent on their husbands, and simply had to grin and bear it.

Men aren't cheating any less; they're probably cheating even more. I think it's pretty rampant with men and women aren't that far behind.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Men aren't cheating any less; they're probably cheating even more. I think it's pretty rampant with men and women aren't that far behind.


Quoted for truth.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Dealbreaker for me as well.





TexasMom1216 said:


> Nothing to reconcile as the relationship was never real.


Agree.



TexasMom1216 said:


> Cheating isn’t about sex, it’s about lying. Cheaters lie. Always.


Not always and don´t ask me how I know.
No matter their intentions and own views on what certain behaviours mean, still would be a deal breaker for me.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

It is the same when a husband cheats on his wife. I am assuming this is something that you are dealing with currently? It can literally be mind boggling and your world is turned upside down. My first husband cheated on me before we got married, we actually had just started dating. He had a date with another lady planned and rather than cancel it he went ahead with the date and had sex with her that night. That should have been the last of it for me but I made an excuse for him as it was early on. Not long into the marriage he started talking about wanting to do 3-somes and swap partners. I was not interested and so he started cheating. Babysitters, ladies I knew and then he ended up with an older woman and decided he wanted to marry her. Once we divorced he moved in with her and the relationship did not last. I was crushed from the inside out, went into such a depression and could hardly get myself out of bed. We had two small children and he had left me with all the debt from his business. We had signed paperwork jointly and he did not pay his bills so I ended up paying these expenses. No child support, he ran from court orders, quitting jobs to avoid his responsibility. He then lied to friends and family telling even our small children things that were not true to place the blame on me and away from him. We were very young, in our 20's when we divorced. He continued the same pattern of behavior until he gained too much weight and no longer had his health.

I think many times men cheat for variety, opportunity, loving the thrill of the chase. A more physical reason. Women however, in my opinion, cheat to get their emotional needs met. I do have lady friends who have cheated on their husbands but their husbands were not emotionally available to them.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Who would want live with someone that is not what they seem to be at face value, not truly your friend, and is just using you while secretly seeking their jollies elsewhere, probably giving up more of themselves to others than to you and unwittingly having strangers brought into your relationship, including not even a thought for the psychological damage this may bring on the children if having children?
This is the deal one is getting when married to a cheater.
In my opinion cheating is in the top list of domestic abuse and should be recognised as such.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

douglmiller said:


> When a woman chooses to cheat, she is also making a choice to break her wedding vows and end her marriage. She is also choosing to inflict the worse possible pain and heartache on her husband when he learns of her cheating. She should realize that reconciliation with her husband is most likely not going to happen. Every time he looks at her, he will visualize her screwing the other man. He will know he cannot trust her at all. Every call, every text, and every trip outside the home will cause him anxiety. This is the choice a woman makes when she decides to cheat. As she spends more and more time with the other man, she will be pulling away from her husband, emotionally and physically. And sooner or later, he will notice. I wonder if more women were aware of all the repercussions of their choice to cheat if they might choose not to, and try to work on their marriage instead—or get a divorce before acting as if they were already single.
> I can only guess that it is very similar for the wife when her husband chooses to cheat.


So she cheated on you? Sorry. Maybe time to move on.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I think before the Women's Equality movement and women regularly joining the workforce, cheating was mostly a man's sport.


The other reality is that prior to recent modern times in the west at least, Victorian era and prior, it was normal for marriages to not be about "love" but about continuing the family line, inheritance, alliances, etc. Adultery was considered an Scarlet Letter Offense for women, not for men generally. Even Biblically, adultery ONLY applied to a wife having extra-marital affiars, it did not apply to men. In prior times it was common for a man to have a wife for status and child bearing and a mistress(s) for carnal pleasure. In fact, a great deal of wives accepted this, society accepted this. The concept of marrying for love and both spouses being sexually monogamous, is historically recent. This really applied to what we now consider the middle class or higher social statuses. My guess is that working class people were probably more sexually monogamous, because they did not have the resources or time to have paramours, I could be wrong. The commonness of legal brothels in earlier times is kind of telling. At least in the US, the criminalization and societal stigma of prostitution is a fairly recent thing. In the US, prostitutuon was only made illegal in most areas 100 years ago. In the UK, it was in the 1950's.

In the US at least, the prgram to outlaw prostituion was part of the Women's Temperance Union, which also pushed for prohibition.

As a man, husband and father, and as a Christian, I believe that sexual/emotional monogamy is the right thing for both the husband and the wife. I agree that the huge increase of women in the work force and social groups, probably has a great deal to do with more women having the opportunity to have an affair. Women generally, since at least 1950 in the US, have had the financial resources to be "independent" and not be too concerned about offending their husbands. Add to that the advent of birth control, and women could behave like men without the inherent risk of pregnancy.

So, in summary, in my opinion. the transition to "love marriages" and the massive shift societally (including no fault/easy divorce), puts us where we are today. Infidelity is hell on the betrayed spouse/partnet regardless of gender. Our general expectations in a "love marriage", make the impact brutal. I am sure it was brutal for many in the past, who married for love, but it is more wide spread today. Opportunity, resources and genders mixing much more are not going away.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

douglmiller said:


> When a woman chooses to cheat, she is also making a choice to break her wedding vows and end her marriage. She is also choosing to inflict the worse possible pain and heartache on her husband when he learns of her cheating. She should realize that reconciliation with her husband is most likely not going to happen. Every time he looks at her, he will visualize her screwing the other man. He will know he cannot trust her at all. Every call, every text, and every trip outside the home will cause him anxiety. This is the choice a woman makes when she decides to cheat. As she spends more and more time with the other man, she will be pulling away from her husband, emotionally and physically. And sooner or later, he will notice. I wonder if more women were aware of all the repercussions of their choice to cheat if they might choose not to, and try to work on their marriage instead—or get a divorce before acting as if they were already single.
> I can only guess that it is very similar for the wife when her husband chooses to cheat.


That logic doesn't apply to this forum. On this forum, at least from the stories I've read, most husbands of wives that cheat beg and plead to get the woman back.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> There is not much logic that emanates from one's nether regions. I guess many don't think about repurcussions because they either believe they won't get caught, don't care if they get caught and are planning to split anyways, or they simply are thinking with the other head type thing.
> 
> It's a shame because after humpty dumpy falls off the wall all the kings army and all the kings men can't put humpty back together again.


More like Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall and broke his neck, crap happens!


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

I'll say this, I don't like any one scratching in my litter box, so I don't scratch in anyone's either. Fair.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Married but Happy said:


> So, what else is new? Are you here to proselytize, or is there a question? Besides, from what I've read, most people get away with cheating and many stay in their marriage.


Is there some requirement that posts contain a question? I think expressing one's viewpoint is just fine here.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> That logic doesn't apply to this forum. On this forum, at least from the stories I've read, most husbands of wives that cheat beg and plead to get the woman back.


Yeah, I do not see that. Plenty of guys jettison the trash.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Yeah, I do not see that. Plenty of guys jettison the trash.


Same. Men are encouraged by almost all the posters on here, male and female, to immediately dump a cheating wife/girlfriend. TAM is extremely anti-cheating, there are a small few that will say a ONS by a man is "different" than a ONS by a woman, but they don't get a lot of agreement, even from the men on here. It's across the board, almost unanimous condemnation of cheating.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

AVR1962 said:


> It is the same when a husband cheats on his wife. I am assuming this is something that you are dealing with currently? It can literally be mind boggling and your world is turned upside down. My first husband cheated on me before we got married, we actually had just started dating. He had a date with another lady planned and rather than cancel it he went ahead with the date and had sex with her that night. That should have been the last of it for me but I made an excuse for him as it was early on. Not long into the marriage he started talking about wanting to do 3-somes and swap partners. I was not interested and so he started cheating. Babysitters, ladies I knew and then he ended up with an older woman and decided he wanted to marry her. Once we divorced he moved in with her and the relationship did not last. I was crushed from the inside out, went into such a depression and could hardly get myself out of bed. We had two small children and he had left me with all the debt from his business. We had signed paperwork jointly and he did not pay his bills so I ended up paying these expenses. No child support, he ran from court orders, quitting jobs to avoid his responsibility. He then lied to friends and family telling even our small children things that were not true to place the blame on me and away from him. We were very young, in our 20's when we divorced. He continued the same pattern of behavior until he gained too much weight and no longer had his health.
> 
> I think many times men cheat for variety, opportunity, loving the thrill of the chase. A more physical reason. Women however, in my opinion, cheat to get their emotional needs met. I do have lady friends who have cheated on their husbands but their husbands were not emotionally available to them.


Perhaps the fact that these women had qualities that made them capable of cheating( like lack of integrity; lack of empathy; and poor problem solving and communication skills, tomname but a few), caused their husbands to withdraw from them.
Presumably, you only heard their versions, and, of course, these are proven liars highly motivated to justify their cheating to both themselves and others.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Quoted for truth.


What makes you think women lag behind? I have read that in the under 45 demographic, women cheat more. Who really knows? It is all based on self reporting and, cheaters lie like crazy.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> I believe if you read a lot of the cheating threads on this forum you will find out that many people are actually completely willing to completely compromise their existence. Women do it for provision and men do it because “I love her.” Outside of that the remaining are just gutless and chose fear instead of an actual loving marriage.
> 
> It’s easy to do nothing and stay in a miserable existence. People are SO lazy they rather be cheated on than actually do all the work of getting out and preserving their dignity.


I presume you mean some people. Lots of us got out.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Dealbreaker for me as well. Cheating isn’t about sex, it’s about lying. Cheaters lie. Always. Therefore once someone cheats, nothing they say means anything because everything is a lie. The whole relationship was nothing but a trick. Nothing to reconcile as the relationship was never real.


It can be about sex. It always involves lying.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> What makes you think women lag behind? I have read that in the under 45 demographic, women cheat more. Who really knows? It is all based on self reporting and, cheaters lie like crazy.


You can find a statistic that will make whatever claim you want. The truth is, we don't really know. You would hope no one would cheat, but we know that won't ever happen. What is the point in saying "men cheat more" or "women cheat more"? Who wins in that horrible contest?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> It can be about sex. It always involves lying.


Let me clarify, I wasn't clear what I meant. You're not the only one who has commented that I wasn't clear. 

For me, the problem with cheating isn't that I'm trying to control my husband's penis. We made a commitment not to have sex with other people. If he breaks that commitment, then he has been lying to me for our entire marriage. I would be divorcing him because our relationship was a lie, not because he wanted a younger, hotter woman. If you say it's about sex, that leads to "It was just sex, are you really going to throw away your whole relationship over sex?" No, I am not throwing anything away. First of all, I'm not the one who broke the commitment, so the cheater ended it, not the victim of the cheating, and second, the whole relationship was a lie so throw away what, exactly? A fiction?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I think before the Women's Equality movement and women regularly joining the workforce, cheating was mostly a man's sport. Their wives could do little about it because they were trapped at home with a litter of 5 or 7 kids and nowhere else to go. Most had no education past high school (or they'd gone to college so their degree could rot in a desk drawer) and most had no work experience at all. So they were literally stuck and financially dependent on their husbands, and simply had to grin and bear it.
> 
> Men aren't cheating any less; they're probably cheating even more. I think it's pretty rampant with men and women aren't that far behind.


I think it has always been about equal.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

I am a bit iconoclastic regarding how many think about this. My wife, when we were very young and first married, had an infatuation and/or emotional affair with an older, successful co-worker. 

Being young and insecure, I did not fully address this with her. Instead, I told her we were moving back to our hometown.

The above being said, I think a lot of people look at issues (particularly infidelity EA/PA) in black and white terms. In reality, I would suggest that like most things in life, there are various shades of grey.

I think most people who are not a psychopath or sociopath, don't just go out to cheat on their spouses and wreck their families.

An example I think is: A person with problems in their marriage and without the skills and experience to address them, could get drunk have a ONS and then be truly remorseful. On the other hand, a spouse who engages in a long-term affiar or series of affairs, would be in my opinion, be of and the situation be of a very different character. 

Some couples in these situations have other concerns, limitations and constraints on how to deal with these indescretions or other problems. Likewise, the religious, moral or other considerations may lead them to try reconciliation and salvaging their lives. Each person and couple has to define what their no-go line is. Even then, the various complexities may impact how they actually react in any given situation.

Life is not black & white.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You can find a statistic that will make whatever claim you want. The truth is, we don't really know. You would hope no one would cheat, but we know that won't ever happen. What is the point in saying "men cheat more" or "women cheat more"? Who wins in that horrible contest?


I agree. Yet in this thread alone, we see some claiming men cheat with greater frequency. Not sure how anyone would know that.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Megaforce said:


> Is there some requirement that posts contain a question? I think expressing one's viewpoint is just fine here.


It it like Jeopardy? “What are sexual pleasures?”


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> I think it has always been about equal.


It's kinda crazy to ignore the fact that cheating has traditionally been acceptable and expected from men but not for women. The social cost of women cheating has historically been MUCH higher. Women could lose their marriage, their children and become a social pariah that even their parents would no longer associate with, while for most of history, "boys will be boys." 

What is of note here, though, is that there were social controls in place that made cheating more dangerous for women. It wasn't because they were morally superior; it was because they stood to lose everything whereas for men it was odd if they didn't cheat. So while there were historically fewer women cheating, it wasn't because they didn't want to cheat or because they had some kind of magic will power that made them more moral. It was because it simply wasn't worth it for them, and when women were confined to the home and had limited contact with strangers they had less opportunity.

So in one sense, you are correct. Women and men probably had an equal inclination to cheat. It's only in the last 50 years or so that women had the same opportunity and lack of social pressure against cheating that men had, so we're seeing an uptick and women and men are probably close to equal by now.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

douglmiller said:


> When a woman chooses to cheat, she is also making a choice to break her wedding vows and end her marriage. She is also choosing to inflict the worse possible pain and heartache on her husband when he learns of her cheating. She should realize that reconciliation with her husband is most likely not going to happen.
> 
> ......I wonder if more women were aware of all the repercussions of their choice to cheat if they might choose not to, and try to work on their marriage instead—or get a divorce before acting as if they were already single.
> I can only guess that it is very similar for the wife when her husband chooses to cheat.


I honestly don't believe that is how things work in the real world. I doubt that most cheaters think through the consequences of their actions, or if they do they discount the idea of getting caught and don't focus on the risks.

I think that a person becomes unhappy in their marriage for real or imagined reasons. Someone else gives them a positive experience and set of feelings that they want to explore. There is a duality to most people and their thought process. They have a conscious mind and a subconscious mind. Your hypothesis assumes that both act the same and process the information together. 

I see a lot of stories where the subconscious mind wants to sabotage the marriage that they are unhappy with and urges infidelity. There are others who feel that they are entitled to happiness. Their conscious mind tells them that they are good and that they will not do evil and can go out with, have drinks with, share a room on a business trip, etc., without anything bad happening or that they deserve whatever happiness comes ouf of their affiar. They tell themselves that they will never get caught if they are careful. For most consequences are not a consideration, until they are caught.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I think before the Women's Equality movement and women regularly joining the workforce, cheating was mostly a man's sport.


Nah they just hid it better, and it was too shameful to talk about. Besides this was at an age where people called women actually desiring sex as hysteria.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

sokillme said:


> Nah they just hid it better, and it was too shameful to talk about. Besides this was at an age where people called women actually desiring sex as hysteria.


This was my feeling, as well, that they hid it better. I do not know how one could quantify the amount of cheating by gender. As I said previously, any survey would rely on self reporting.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> I honestly don't believe that is how things work in the real world. I doubt that most cheaters think through the consequences of their actions, or if they do they discount the idea of getting caught and don't focus on the risks.
> 
> I think that a person becomes unhappy in their marriage for real or imagined reasons. Someone else gives them a positive experience and set of feelings that they want to explore. There is a duality to most people and their thought process. They have a conscious mind and a subconscious mind. Your hypothesis assumes that both act the same and process the information together.
> 
> I see a lot of stories where the subconscious mind wants to sabotage the marriage that they are unhappy with and urges infidelity. There are others who feel that they are entitled to happiness. Their conscious mind tells them that they are good and that they will not do evil and can go out with, have drinks with, share a room on a business trip, etc., without anything bad happening or that they deserve whatever happiness comes ouf of their affiar. They tell themselves that they will never get caught if they are careful. For most consequences are not a consideration, until they are caught.


Hard to know, but, it is clearly a choice, and the fact that they hide it demonstrates awareness of the consequences. So, it would seem consequences are a consideration. More like a risk/ reward analysis.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Hard to know, but, it is clearly a choice, and the fact that they hide it demonstrates awareness of the consequences. So, it would seem consequences are a consideration. More like a risk/ reward analysis.


So we’re back to “all women cheat.” Great.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Life is not black & white.


No, you may have more than two choices on which road to take amongst various
A priori ones.
But once you choosed is binary regarding where you wil get.
The one you took versus all the not choosed ones.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

I say......again and once more is a battle of the gender wars?
Men versus women and the reciprocal?
Instead of loyal ones versus the ones that are not?

Sorry, plain nonsense


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So we’re back to “all women cheat.” Great.


Huh? How on earth did you derive that? This was in response too a post about cheaters consciously choosing to cheat and whether they considered consequences. Gender was never discussed and was not an issue.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Huh? How on earth did you derive that? This was in response too a post about cheaters consciously choosing to cheat and whether they considered consequences. Gender was never discussed and was not an issue.


We just finished a whole discussion about who cheats more, women or men. That’s a gender discussion, is it not?

You are correct that which gender “wins” at cheating is not germane to the thread topic.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

ElOtro said:


> No, you may have more than two choices on which road to take amongst various
> A priori ones.
> But once you choosed is binary regarding where you wil get.
> The one you took versus all the not choosed ones.


I have no idea what you are saying. My post was that things in life are rarely black or white. In reality, almost nothing is an island unto itself. People make choices, stumble, are selfish, are selfless, forgive, fight and this never happens in a vacuum. 

There are some who say if a spouse has an emotional affair, divorce and burn them to the ground. There are some people that even when there is a long term betrayal and physical affair, will seek to reconcile and forgive. 

The point I was making is that the blanket "go nuclear" people on here and other places, speak from their experiences and have no clue about the messy grey areas of another person's marriage. I personally try to recognize that life is generally not cut and dried, that life and relationships are complex and messy.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> We just finished a whole discussion about who cheats more, women or men. That’s a gender discussion, is it not?
> 
> You are correct that which gender “wins” at cheating is not germane to the thread topic.


The quote you replied to had nothing to do with the prevalence of cheating by gender.
You, yourself made the assertion that men cheated more frequently. How do you know this?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

BootsAndJeans said:


> I have no idea what you are saying. My post was that things in life are rarely black or white. In reality, almost nothing is an island unto itself. People make choices, stumble, are selfish, are selfless, forgive, fight and this never happens in a vacuum.
> 
> There are some who say if a spouse has an emotional affair, divorce and burn them to the ground. There are some people that even when there is a long term betrayal and physical affair, will seek to reconcile and forgive.
> 
> The point I was making is that the blanket "go nuclear" people on here and other places, speak from their experiences and have no clue about the messy grey areas of another person's marriage. I personally try to recognize that life is generally not cut and dried, that life and relationships are complex and messy.


Well, cheating is a fairly egregious offense to those socialized a certain way. There may be practical considerations that weigh against jettisoning a betrayer. I struggled with the decision not because I still loved my wife. Like many cheaters her infidelities was coupled with some extreme abuse( gaslighting, mockery, just plain meanness). Factoring into effect of divorce on my kids and the financial upheaval were considerations. 
I have observed that people's tolerance for abuse is really variable.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> The quote you replied to had nothing to do with the prevalence of cheating by gender.
> You, yourself made the assertion that men cheated more frequently. How do you know this?


I didn’t assert it, but rather said that it would make sense, not because women are more moral but because there were no social consequences for men who cheated, historically it’s been acceptable and expected for men to cheat, but the social costs for women were far more severe. A woman could lose her home, children, and all social ties for infidelity. Also, women were isolated at home and had fewer opportunities. So while women may have wanted to cheat as much as men, it was more difficult and the cost was MUCH higher. Therefore it makes sense it was more rare. Again, not because women are morally superior, they are not. But because women did not have the freedom they have today. The additional freedom women have now would logically even out cheating instances, the social cost is the same as for men and they have ample opportunity.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I didn’t assert it, but rather said that it would make sense, not because women are more moral but because there were no social consequences for men who cheated, historically it’s been acceptable and expected for men to cheat, but the social costs for women were far more severe. A woman could lose her home, children, and all social ties for infidelity. Also, women were isolated at home and had fewer opportunities. So while women may have wanted to cheat as much as men, it was more difficult and the cost was MUCH higher. Therefore it makes sense it was more rare. Again, not because women are morally superior, they are not. But because women did not have the freedom they have today. The additional freedom women have now would logically even out cheating instances, the social cost is the same as for men and they have ample opportunity.


Where did you come up with there being no social,consequences for men? I can think of many. I am fairly old and for as long as I can remember cheating men have been looked down on by everyone in my family, among my friends, in my religion etc.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

BootsAndJeans said:


> I have no idea what you are saying.


Sorry if I was not clear enough, my fault.
So allow me to do it perhaps better.
IMO grays are (mainly) about what we think and feel.
Some actions are not necessarily defined by our knowledge of them, but have in themselves results that may be autonomous of our intentions.

So happens with a lot of our choices.
We choose the road we take.
But that road leads somewhere by itself regardless grays.

And some of us, recognizing to all others their right to choose, feel, think and do, have also the right to stand for our own criteria and that apply to our lifes and only.

Includding to end a relationship when and because is not / was not exclusive, no matter de "grade" or style and neither the "intentions" and views involved in it.
You may call it "black and white" decision-making in what it results.
As I do not say that others should, this is good enough for me.

Best wishes.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Where did you come up with there being no social,consequences for men? I can think of many. I am fairly old and for as long as I can remember cheating men have been looked down on by everyone in my family, among my friends, in my religion etc.


I’m speaking of all throughout time, not just in the last few decades. Mistresses were common in the US until the 70s (and later, my father had several, I’m named after one of them) and are still common other places in the world. It’s only in the last 40 years or so that a man cheating on his wife had any real consequences. “Boys will be boys,” after all. History happened like it happened, we don’t have to like it, but it still was what it was.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m speaking of all throughout time, not just in the last few decades. Mistresses were common in the US until the 70s (and later, my father had several, I’m named after one of them) and are still common other places in the world. It’s only in the last 40 years or so that a man cheating on his wife had any real consequences. “Boys will be boys,” after all. History happened like it happened, we don’t have to like it, but it still was what it was.


My parents predate the 70' s by decades. My grandparents were born in the 1800' s. I know for a fact that they disapproved of adultery. And, they were pretty typical.
The fact that something is common does not mean it carries no social consequence. I could give you quite a few occurrences that are common ,yet looked down upon.
When fault was relevant in divorce it played a large role in asset division, spousal maintenance and custody. The impact had real consequences and at fault divorce goes back well past 40 years. 
So, to say cheating had no social,consequences for men is not accurate. A cheating man lost the respect of his family, peers, fellow parishioners etc. and he faced financial consequences in divorce. How are those not consequences?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> My parents predate the 70' s by decades. My grandparents were born in the 1800' s. I know for a fact that they disapproved of adultery. And, they were pretty typical.
> The fact that something is common does not mean it carries no social consequence. I could give you quite a few occurrences that are common ,yet looked down upon.
> When fault was relevant in divorce it played a large role in asset division, spousal maintenance and custody. The impact had real consequences and at fault divorce goes back well past 40 years.
> So, to say cheating had no social,consequences for men is not accurate. A cheating man lost the respect of his family, peers, fellow parishioners etc. and he faced financial consequences in divorce. How are those not consequences?


A few tut-tuts from his social circle pales in comparison to losing his children and being completely ostracized by society, which is what happened to women. Women could not earn money then, and any money their family gave them prior to marriage was the property of their husbands. They were tossed out, alone, with only one option for earning money. They were not welcome in church or anywhere. And it was hardly that women could divorce their husbands for infidelity. They were expected to forgive and forget and try to be better so their husbands wouldn’t cheat again. A man cheating on his wife was HER shame, not his. Facts are just facts. It was not the same for women and men, it was dangerous for women to be unfaithful. They still did sometimes, but it wasn’t socially acceptable and it was for men. It still mostly is acceptable, but now women have the legal right to divorce over it.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Megaforce said:


> My parents predate the 70' s by decades. My grandparents were born in the 1800' s. I know for a fact that they disapproved of adultery. And, they were pretty typical.
> The fact that something is common does not mean it carries no social consequence. I could give you quite a few occurrences that are common ,yet looked down upon.
> When fault was relevant in divorce it played a large role in asset division, spousal maintenance and custody. The impact had real consequences and at fault divorce goes back well past 40 years.
> So, to say cheating had no social,consequences for men is not accurate. A cheating man lost the respect of his family, peers, fellow parishioners etc. and he faced financial consequences in divorce. How are those not consequences?


My parents were married for over 50 years. They were an absolute partnership, business, domestic and social status. My mom worked in the business that my dad started. My mom and dad were both active in a fraternal organization that did lots of philanthropic work for the community as a form of networking to build his business. They appeared to love each other deeply.

And yet one of the things I witnessed was my father's secretary at work sitting on his lap, while he dictated letters that she took in short hand to be later typed up. The thought of a much younger woman sitting on a man's lap, while he puts his hands around her and she writes down his every word, absolutely disgusts me. I can't imagine how horrible it must have made my mother feel.

While the late 50's and early 60's were a different era, still it was totally inapropriate for a married many with children to have a younger woman sit on his lap several times during the day. And yet it was the way things were. I am so glad about the progress that has been made, and yet the scars created by past behavior are obvious.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

douglmiller said:


> When a woman chooses to cheat, she is also making a choice to break her wedding vows and end her marriage. She is also choosing to inflict the worse possible pain and heartache on her husband when he learns of her cheating. She should realize that reconciliation with her husband is most likely not going to happen. Every time he looks at her, he will visualize her screwing the other man. He will know he cannot trust her at all. Every call, every text, and every trip outside the home will cause him anxiety. This is the choice a woman makes when she decides to cheat. As she spends more and more time with the other man, she will be pulling away from her husband, emotionally and physically. And sooner or later, he will notice. I wonder if more women were aware of all the repercussions of their choice to cheat if they might choose not to, and try to work on their marriage instead—or get a divorce before acting as if they were already single.
> I can only guess that it is very similar for the wife when her husband chooses to cheat.


Same applies when a man cheats on his wife which is usually more common, yet women reconcile, do you think it is any easier for her? In most cases she has kids and is financially dependent on the cheater also.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> A few tut-tuts from his social circle pales in comparison to losing his children and being completely ostracized by society, which is what happened to women. Women could not earn money then, and any money their family gave them prior to marriage was the property of their husbands. They were tossed out, alone, with only one option for earning money. They were not welcome in church or anywhere. And it was hardly that women could divorce their husbands for infidelity. They were expected to forgive and forget and try to be better so their husbands wouldn’t cheat again. A man cheating on his wife was HER shame, not his. Facts are just facts. It was not the same for women and men, it was dangerous for women to be unfaithful. They still did sometimes, but it wasn’t socially acceptable and it was for men. It still mostly is acceptable, but now women have the legal right to divorce over it.


In fact many Christian churches still trot out the mantra of forgiveness, moving on etc. as long as there are no physical bruises or physical violence. They neglect the fact than many women (men may also but usually women) are subject to vile emotional and mental abuse which cannot be seen. Those trotting out the mantra are usually men themselves, it is so sickening.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Where is Catholic Dad in this discussion?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Megaforce said:


> This was my feeling, as well, that they hid it better. I do not know how one could quantify the amount of cheating by gender. As I said previously, any survey would rely on self reporting.


DNA is going to do that one day. I actually think this is a pretty open secret. Woman and men are no better or worse when it comes to being better or worse. It's just that men had the opportunity to be more abusive. Give it time, women will catch up.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Megaforce said:


> Perhaps the fact that these women had qualities that made them capable of cheating( like lack of integrity; lack of empathy; and poor problem solving and communication skills, tomname but a few), caused their husbands to withdraw from them.
> Presumably, you only heard their versions, and, of course, these are proven liars highly motivated to justify their cheating to both themselves and others.


That goes both ways. What I have found about cheaters whether men or women is that there was a parent that was also a cheater. In every situation I have known a cheater one of that person's parents had given them the example that this was acceptable. Talking with those who have never cheated, men or women, verses those who have cheated I have found very strong boundaries for those who have not cheated.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m speaking of all throughout time, not just in the last few decades. Mistresses were common in the US until the 70s (and later, my father had several, I’m named after one of them) and are still common other places in the world. It’s only in the last 40 years or so that a man cheating on his wife had any real consequences. “Boys will be boys,” after all. History happened like it happened, we don’t have to like it, but it still was what it was.


So, you agree there were consequences?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

sokillme said:


> DNA is going to do that one day. I actually think this is a pretty open secret. Woman and men are no better or worse when it comes to being better or worse. It's just that men had the opportunity to be more abusive. Give it time, women will catch up.


Some statistics indicate that in terms of domestic violence, women abuse more frequently.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> So, you agree there were consequences?


Not until very recently, and the only consequences are that many women will choose divorce over staying with a man who cheats on them. As I said several times, there were historically no consequences for men who cheat. It was normal and expected for men to have mistresses and women were expected to suck it up. I've not agreed with you that throughout history men were expected to be faithful. They simply were not and in much of the world, are not. 

I do believe that women abuse more frequently. There is somewhat of a social stigma against beating women, because we are physically smaller. Men are still scoffed at for complaining about a woman hitting them. All abuse is wrong, no matter who is doing it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BootsAndJeans said:


> I have no idea what you are saying. My post was that things in life are rarely black or white. In reality, almost nothing is an island unto itself. People make choices, stumble, are selfish, are selfless, forgive, fight and this never happens in a vacuum.
> 
> There are some who say if a spouse has an emotional affair, divorce and burn them to the ground. There are some people that even when there is a long term betrayal and physical affair, will seek to reconcile and forgive.
> 
> The point I was making is that the blanket "go nuclear" people on here and other places, speak from their experiences and have no clue about the messy grey areas of another person's marriage. I personally try to recognize that life is generally not cut and dried, that life and relationships are complex and messy.


I don't think it's wrong for anyone to have the clear boundary of no cheating or it's over. At least both know where they stand then regardless of any 'messiness or grey areas'. Many stay out of fear of change or being alone not because they think its the right thing.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Not until very recently, and the only consequences are that many women will choose divorce over staying with a man who cheats on them. As I said several times, there were historically no consequences for men who cheat. It was normal and expected for men to have mistresses and women were expected to suck it up. I've not agreed with you that throughout history men were expected to be faithful. They simply were not and in much of the world, are not.
> 
> I do believe that women abuse more frequently. There is somewhat of a social stigma against beating women, because we are physically smaller. Men are still scoffed at for complaining about a woman hitting them. All abuse is wrong, no matter who is doing it.


I think that generally women emotionally abuse more but men physically abuse more.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I think that generally women emotionally abuse more but men physically abuse more.


I don't even know if that's true, honestly. I think we don't think that a woman smacking a man on the arm or shoulder, or slapping his face, or punching at him is "abuse," but imagine if a man did that. I think because when a man punches a woman he often will physically injure her (more than just a bruise) we think it's more often that men hit, but in reality women do act out violently sometimes and hit with fists or even objects. It's more widespread than people realize. Men are taught to control their violence because it's more potent, but just because a woman is less dangerous doesn't make her violence less damaging.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's kinda crazy to ignore the fact that cheating has traditionally been acceptable and expected from men but not for women. The social cost of women cheating has historically been MUCH higher. Women could lose their marriage, their children and become a social pariah that even their parents would no longer associate with, while for most of history, "boys will be boys."
> 
> What is of note here, though, is that there were social controls in place that made cheating more dangerous for women. It wasn't because they were morally superior; it was because they stood to lose everything whereas for men it was odd if they didn't cheat. So while there were historically fewer women cheating, it wasn't because they didn't want to cheat or because they had some kind of magic will power that made them more moral. It was because it simply wasn't worth it for them, and when women were confined to the home and had limited contact with strangers they had less opportunity.
> 
> So in one sense, you are correct. Women and men probably had an equal inclination to cheat. It's only in the last 50 years or so that women had the same opportunity and lack of social pressure against cheating that men had, so we're seeing an uptick and women and men are probably close to equal by now.


The "Women always have it worse" seems to be your go-to in almost every thread you reply to whether it is a threadjack or not. You are stellar at the female viewpoint (which makes sense since you are female) and severely lacking at trying to see anything but that to the point of twisting what people say to reinforce your point.
That said, How often have you seen a woman tricked into raising a child that is unknowingly not hers? That has happened to men for centuries, not just decades and I can't think of a much bigger violation of one's agency.



> What is the point in saying "men cheat more" or "women cheat more"? Who wins in that horrible contest?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rubix Cubed said:


> The "Women always have it worse" seems to be your go-to in almost every thread you reply to whether it is a threadjack or not. You are stellar at the female viewpoint (which makes sense since you are female) and severely lacking at trying to see anything but that to the point of twisting what people say to reinforce your point.
> That said, How often have you seen a woman tricked into raising a child that is unknowingly not hers? That has happened to men for centuries, not just decades and I can't think of a much bigger violation of one's agency.


Pedantic and transparent personal attacks aside, please quote where I defended paternity fraud or said that women were tricked into raising someone else’s child. Women were sometimes required to raise their husbands bastards, but it would be difficult to trick a woman into thinking a child was hers. I don’t recall making that assertion, but I’m sure you can come up with that quote since you seem to be monitoring my posts.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Pedantic and transparent personal attacks aside, please quote where I defended paternity fraud or said that women were tricked into raising someone else’s child. Women were sometimes required to raise their husbands bastards, but it would be difficult to trick a woman into thinking a child was hers. I don’t recall making that assertion, but I’m sure you can come up with that quote since you seem to be monitoring my posts.


 "Required", not tricked into. Big difference.

I'm not going to get into a threadjack, back and forth but your implications are clear to me in your posts. You throw around generalizations and then when called out want specifics. I'm sure you don't see it that way and maybe others don't either. After reading numerous different threads where you do the same schtick whether it is germane to the thread or not, I was irked enough to post. Probably should have held my tongue, but it's quoted now and I stand by it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rubix Cubed said:


> "Required", not tricked into. Big difference.
> 
> I'm not going to get into a threadjack, back and forth but your implications are clear to me in your posts. You throw around generalizations and then when called out want specifics. I'm sure you don't see it that way and maybe others don't either. After reading numerous different threads where you do the same schtick whether it is germane to the thread or not, I was irked enough to post. Probably should have held my tongue, but it's quoted now and I stand by it.


It is a huge difference. I don't recall arguing in favor of it, and don't understand why you insist I did. 

You didn't read my post, that is obvious, because you have an axe to grind. Clearly your issue with me is personal. The ignore function works quite well. Since you have no desire to discuss in good faith, that's what I'll be doing, so attack away.

ETA: Ah, I see. You're upset that I won't say that women cheat more than men do. You can't refute what I actually said, because I never said women were better, just that society was different.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> That goes both ways. What I have found about cheaters whether men or women is that there was a parent that was also a cheater. In every situation I have known a cheater one of that person's parents had given them the example that this was acceptable. Talking with those who have never cheated, men or women, verses those who have cheated I have found very strong boundaries for those who have not cheated.


Being that Astrologer, I liken what has been passed on to that ground-bouncing, roll away, apple.
Passed on genetics=personality.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> The ignore function works quite well. Since you have no desire to discuss in good faith, that's what I'll be doing, so attack away.


I'm not going to put you on ignore, I agree with and enjoy some of your posts.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I'm not going to put you on ignore, I agree with and enjoy some of your posts.


Then perhaps you'd give me a smidgen of the benefit of the doubt and ask me what I mean or if I mean what it seemed like I meant instead of coming after me. I realize I'm very unpopular and I do take responsibility for that, but I can't improve my communications if I have no idea WHY everything I post is taken as man-hating. Especially when my post said specifically women weren't more moral, just had fewer opportunities. 

I don't really expect that, it's rhetorical.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rubix Cubed said:


> The "Women always have it worse" seems to be your go-to in almost every thread you reply to whether it is a threadjack or not. You are stellar at the female viewpoint (which makes sense since you are female) and severely lacking at trying to see anything but that to the point of twisting what people say to reinforce your point.
> That said, How often have you seen a woman tricked into raising a child that is unknowingly not hers? That has happened to men for centuries, not just decades and I can't think of a much bigger violation of one's agency.


Yes, I noticed it when she proclaimed someone alleged all women cheat. That is nowhere to be found in this thread. Weird.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Not until very recently, and the only consequences are that many women will choose divorce over staying with a man who cheats on them. As I said several times, there were historically no consequences for men who cheat. It was normal and expected for men to have mistresses and women were expected to suck it up. I've not agreed with you that throughout history men were expected to be faithful. They simply were not and in much of the world, are not.
> 
> I do believe that women abuse more frequently. There is somewhat of a social stigma against beating women, because we are physically smaller. Men are still scoffed at for complaining about a woman hitting them. All abuse is wrong, no matter who is doing it.


I believe your assertion was that there were absolutely no social consequences for men cheating. Yet, you concede there was/ is some level of social opprobrium, regardless of the degree. And, you have failed to address the fact that cheating did affect men in divorce, pre no fault. It affected resolution of custody disputes, division of assets and alimony. So, more consequences.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I think that generally women emotionally abuse more but men physically abuse more.


There are stats that support either gender being the one that physically abused more. However, even if men do it more frequently, it does not explain why there is such a huge disparity in the number of shelters for abused men. I read it is like 1000 to 1, and, clearly, even those studies that allege men predominate, the ratio is maybe 60/40.
I think a lot of men, as the result of being betrayed have had the blinders taken off as to the capability of some women for evil. I know I had always just assumed men were more abusive and that cheating was predominantly a male phenomenon. I do not believe that anymore.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> I believe your assertion was that there were absolutely no social consequences for men cheating. Yet, you concede there was/ is some level of social opprobrium, regardless of the degree. And, you have failed to address the fact that cheating did affect men in divorce, pre no fault. It affected resolution of custody disputes, division of assets and alimony. So, more consequences.


I still assert that historically there were no consequences for men who cheat. Now that we have no-fault divorce and women can leave, there are consequences. There are still no real social consequences, no one stops associating with a man because he cheats. He would not lose his livelihood or his social circle.  We used to stop associating with women who did but we don't any more. 

How about this: since you will not discuss historical precedent but will only discuss 20th century American history (that seems to be the period you're focusing on, I keep saying "historical" and you won't acknowledge that, and if you consider being expected to pay to support his children a punishment for men, then I will concede that yes, if a man's wife divorced him he did have to pay to support his children. I do not yet concede the consequences were worse if he cheated, I'm not aware that adultery is illegal and therefore did not enter into consideration other than to allow the divorce; if that is incorrect or if you can find anywhere on the internet that says it might be I'm sure you'll let me know. So assuming a woman did file for divorce prior to the 70s, which was only possible if she could prove in a court of law to a jury of men that he cheated, then yeah, he could have been divorced and made to fulfill his obligations to the children he voluntarily had with her as well as pay alimony until she remarried (which rarely happened to divorced women in the 50s, so in perpetuity). 

And, further to emphasize just how horrible women are, prior to DNA testing he had no way to prove the children weren't his and was stuck paying for them. 

You win, women cheated as much as men and men suffered unfairly. Happy? Bash away.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Then perhaps you'd give me a smidgen of the benefit of the doubt and ask me what I mean or if I mean what it seemed like I meant instead of coming after me. I realize I'm very unpopular and I do take responsibility for that, but I can't improve my communications if I have no idea WHY everything I post is taken as man-hating. Especially when my post said specifically women weren't more moral, just had fewer opportunities.
> 
> I don't really expect that, it's rhetorical.


I presume you were betrayed. Early on, and for quite some time, I had a very jaundiced eye as it relates to women. Hopefully, that is no longer the case.
You seem to subscribe to the idea that, historically, women have had it tougher and were oppressed. OTOH, I began to subscribe to the theory that men have, historically, had things much tougher than women.
Both sides of this debate have ample ammunition to support their positions. Off the top of my head, women can point to a lack of rights, discrimination in the job market, harrassment, lack of career options etc.
Men point to their percieved disposability, shorter lifespans, workplace deaths and injuries, conscription and on and on.
I bet if we took turns listing the various injustices and obstacles each gender faces, we could go back and forth for a good long time.
Now, I feel that each gender faces some disadvantages and neither has or has historically had it worse. This Jordan Peterson fellow does a decent job of presenting this.
I think if you go back and read some of your posts that you will see that on occasion, you do, gratuitously take shots at the opposite gender and you dom assert that women are more disadvantaged than men without considering some of the disadvantages men face.
I do not know the timing of your betrayal. I believe you mention being happily married now To a good man. But, your posts do remind me of some of my own, especially early on post the cheating , as I was somewhat intent on showing that women were priveliged as compared to men and were at least as capable of perfidy.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> I presume you were betrayed.


I was cheated on by boyfriends, and lied to a lot, but the fair assessment that I do have a distrust of men comes from my childhood.


Megaforce said:


> You seem to subscribe to the idea that, historically, women have had it tougher and were oppressed.


I do, and I would be dishonest if I did not concede that my childhood has colored my viewpoint. I also spent a good deal of time studying religion and history, and the injustices done to women stood out to me because of my past. 


Megaforce said:


> I bet if we took turns listing the various injustices and obstacles each gender faces, we could go back and forth for a good long time.


This is another very fair point. We could and aside from annoying us both it would serve very little purpose.

Your assessment is fair and I will try to watch making unfair generalizations and taking swipes at men. I try to present a view that is sympathetic to women and it is very poorly received by well, all the men on the forum, which points to an issue with my communication skills. Other posters present identical views to mine and are not accused of man-hating, which also points to messaging rather than the message. I cannot expect the benefit of the doubt and I realize there is no sympathy for my past, so I don't expect you to stop coming after me, but I will concede that I am responsible for the terrible impression everyone here has of me. 

End threadjack. Although, the thread has become one about how horrible women are and we're talking about how horrible I am, so maybe it's not a threadjack after all.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I still assert that historically there were no consequences for men who cheat. Now that we have no-fault divorce and women can leave, there are consequences. There are still no real social consequences, no one stops associating with a man because he cheats. He would not lose his livelihood or his social circle. We used to stop associating with women who did but we don't any more.
> 
> How about this: since you will not discuss historical precedent but will only discuss 20th century American history (that seems to be the period you're focusing on, I keep saying "historical" and you won't acknowledge that, and if you consider being expected to pay to support his children a punishment for men, then I will concede that yes, if a man's wife divorced him he did have to pay to support his children. I do not yet concede the consequences were worse if he cheated, I'm not aware that adultery is illegal and therefore did not enter into consideration other than to allow the divorce; if that is incorrect or if you can find anywhere on the internet that says it might be I'm sure you'll let me know. So assuming a woman did file for divorce prior to the 70s, which was only possible if she could prove in a court of law to a jury of men that he cheated, then yeah, he could have been divorced and made to fulfill his obligations to the children he voluntarily had with her as well as pay alimony until she remarried (which rarely happened to divorced women in the 50s, so in perpetuity).
> 
> ...


See, again, you inaccurately recite what You claim I said. Just as I , or anyone else on this thread never claimed all women cheat( as you seem to claim) , I never mentioned child support as a consequence or punishment. Do you read my posts?
And you have no idea whether certain people would stop associating with a male cheater. Where is your support for that? 
You, yourself made assertions regarding what transpired 40years ago or in the 70, I belive so, since I lived then and observed how people treated male cheaters, as well as how divorce courts did( no jury trials that I am aware of let alone all male juries, although this could vary by jurisdiction).
Couple of more things. Nowhere did I,claim the consequences were worse for men. I merely took issue with your claim that there were absolutely no social consequences. 
And, yes, in a number of states adultery is still on the books as a crime. Something like 15 states, I read.
Again 
I do not see how you came up with the notion that I, or anyone else, proposed that paying child support was punishment


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> I do not see how you came up with the notion that I, or anyone else, proposed that paying child support was punishment


Paying child support is a consequence. You listed it among consequences: 


Megaforce said:


> And, you have failed to address the fact that cheating did affect men in divorce, pre no fault. It affected resolution of custody disputes, division of assets and alimony. So, more consequences.


So I used the wrong word, I said punishment, but I should have said consequences. Plus I mushed together custody and child support, I assumed that's what you meant. It is fairly recent that men get custody, they didn't used to because men had to work and women didn't.

I'm done, you win. You have a personal experience, it seems, where a man suffered socially for cheating on his wife. I have personal experiences and have studied history that says the opposite. So you're right and I'm wrong. There you go.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Paying child support is a consequence. You listed it among consequences:
> 
> So I used the wrong word, I said punishment, but I should have said consequences. Plus I mushed together custody and child support, I assumed that's what you meant. It is fairly recent that men get custody, they didn't used to because men had to work and women didn't.
> 
> I'm done, you win. You have a personal experience, it seems, where a man suffered socially for cheating on his wife. I have personal experiences and have studied history that says the opposite. So you're right and I'm wrong. There you go.


As my grandfather used to say "You're right and I' m wrong, as you usually are." As you can see, it is not clear which one of us was referred to by that modifier. He was pretty funny.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> As my grandfather used to say "You're right and I' m wrong, as you usually are." As you can see, it is not clear which one of us was referred to by that modifier. He was pretty funny.





TexasMom1216 said:


> Paying child support is a consequence. You listed it among consequences:
> 
> So I used the wrong word, I said punishment, but I should have said consequences. Plus I mushed together custody and child support, I assumed that's what you meant. It is fairly recent that men get custody, they didn't used to because men had to work and women didn't.
> 
> I'm done, you win. You have a personal experience, it seems, where a man suffered socially for cheating on his wife. I have personal experiences and have studied history that says the opposite. So you're right and I'm wrong. There you go.


That is quite a leap, assuming that my mentioning losing custody was an allusion to.
having to pay child support. Most men I know have no issue with supporting their kids. I paid hundreds of thousands in child support. Paid it timely and with no resentment. 
Of course it was obvious that my XW, the one who cheated and broke up your family, was siphoning a fair amount of the money off just for herself.
So, no, I do not see paying child support as a punishment or consequence t a man having cheating. That obligation to support his kids was already in place before any divorce. I do see loss of custody and limited access to his kids as a consequence that a cheating man would face pre no fault divorce.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> End threadjack. Although, the thread has become one about how horrible women are and we're talking about how horrible I am, so maybe it's not a threadjack after all.


That's not what the thread is about and you're not horrible for having a viewpoint (as jaded as it may be 😁)
From what you posted about your dad your viewpoint is justified certainly in reference to him but generalizing the rest of us for his faults is not exactly fair. Your Mom must have been a very strong woman to not kill him. You can represent a view that is 'sympathetic to women' without tearing down the entire male gender.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Deleted ... Waste of effort and empathy.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Your Mom must have been a very strong woman to not kill him.


Redacted. Way too personal and a threadjack. 

Sorry. I'll put you on ignore, you do the same for me, and we're done.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)




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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rubix Cubed said:


>


Good ol' Strother Martin. A champion diver.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So we’re back to “all women cheat.” Great.


Put down the crack pipe, nothing of the sort was said. You are reading into things again.......


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Just my opinion, based on what I have seen. Even in the 21st century, an adulterous man is not typically negatively impacted as an adulterous woman, in most situations. There is still a "boys will be boys" mindset at play.

In the part of the US where I live, the cultural expectations are that wives and mothers should be truly the fairer sex. A woman is expected/perceived to be the moral center of a family and to be ladylike. Thus a wife/mother who cheats is not given the general societal wink that a husband us given. She pretty much goes from the Donna Reed to the Town Sl*t category over night.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

BootsAndJeans said:


> Just my opinion, based on what I have seen. Even in the 21st century, an adulterous man is not typically negatively impacted as an adulterous woman, in most situations. There is still a "boys will be boys" mindset at play.
> 
> In the part of the US where I live, the cultural expectations are that wives and mothers should be truly the fairer sex. A woman is expected/perceived to be the moral center of a family and to be ladylike. Thus a wife/mother who cheats is not given the general societal wink that a husband us given. She pretty much goes from the Donba Reed to the Town **** category over night.


I have seen exactly the opposite with folks viewing women that cheat as having been emotionally neglected, abused or with an uncommunicative, unevolved lout as a husband. There is this weird notion, despite all the excellent poets, authors,orators, artists, philanthropists etc. that men are, somehow, less emotionally evolved, poor communicators, less in touch with their emotions. Therefore their poor lonely wives are , essentially, forced to have their" needs fulfilled elsewhere. They only do it to get their emotional needs met and this is, somehow, a more noble, valid reason for vheating.
Men are cast as sex crazed dogs, having affairs just for sex.
I lived with 6 women in a house during college. We were all good friends. But, what some would call communication about deep, emotional issues, was, in reality, banal gossip. 
One researcher whose article I read, Michelle Langley, dispelled a number of myths by interviewing women cheaters and their husbands. 
First, the women were driven, primarily, to cheat because they wanted sexual,variety, " strange" if you will.
Second, when interviewing the couple she would hear the wife complain that her husband was not a good communicator. But, she observed that many of the men were, actually, excellent communicators. But, their wives objected when they voiced an opinion that did not mirror the wives'. Many of the men had reduced their communication because failure tone an echo chamber provoked so much anger in the women.
Third, one of the main drivers of women's desire to cheat as they got older was a change in the balance between estrogen and testosterone. As they aged and estrogen levels became lower, the testosterone started increasing their sex drives.
For some reason, society has clung to the notion that women cheat more for emotional,fulfillment and that this makes the cheating more understandable. 
YMMV, but when I was younger and more attractive, married women hit on me sometimes. And, we had never really had any emotional involvement. 
When dating, post divorce women pushed for sex very early on.
Then, of course, there is the " you go girl" contingent which Inwould compare with the " boys will be boys" notion you mentioned. Just my take.


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## Woundidwife (4 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Paying child support is a consequence. You listed it among consequences:
> 
> So I used the wrong word, I said punishment, but I should have said consequences. Plus I mushed together custody and child support, I assumed that's what you meant. It is fairly recent that men get custody, they didn't used to because men had to work and women didn't.
> 
> I'm done, you win. You have a personal experience, it seems, where a man suffered socially for cheating on his wife. I have personal experiences and have studied history that says the opposite. So you're right and I'm wrong. There you go.


Yeah. I am not seeing any social consequences for my STBXCH. I feel like he deserves them, but instead, he is getting hit on. Repeatedly. WTF? He is even admitting things and telling his story. I guess because he could commit to a 27 year marriage at one time he is still a prize. 

What kind of reaction am I getting? Nothing to my face from the general public—except through his grapevine that it is in disbelief that I would leave him after “just one time”. (Like once wasn’t one too many to begin with.) I have also been approached by a vulture or two—which I obviously have no interest in entertaining at all, but unfortunately, I have lost my go-to, never-fail come-on-blocker, which was: “My husband says the same thing”! 😡🙄😔


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Woundidwife said:


> I have lost my go-to, never-fail come-on-blocker, which was: “My husband says the same thing”! 😡🙄😔


Just change it to "My bodyguard says the same thing" and look across the room and nod.


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## Woundidwife (4 mo ago)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Just change it to "My bodyguard says the same thing" and look across the room and nod.


I LOVE THIS! However, I was approached in chain store by a distant cousin/friend of my STBXCH, so that wouldn’t have worked in that instance …or most instances my case….since I mostly avoid bars now and only go out to dinner with a girlfriend or two at a time.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Woundidwife said:


> I LOVE THIS! However, I was approached in chain store by a distant cousin/friend of my STBXCH, so that wouldn’t have worked in that instance …or most instances my case….since I mostly avoid bars now and only go out to dinner with a girlfriend or two at a time.


Maybe you could change it to "My girlfriend says the same thing" and just let it hang out there.
That could possibly have the opposite effect of what you intended though.


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