# Will I forever pay the price?



## No-redemption

Hii everyone,
I am desperately looking for any help. Infact I have looking looking for help in other sites similar to this. I don't if this one will be of any help.
I should start by saying I am a wife that cheated. Got caught. That was 3.5 years ago. Since then my husband has not had any sex with me. Infact he has not touched me in any way, not even holding my hand since then.

I have tried talking to him. I have cried night after night in front of him. I have asked to get us help through marriage counselling (he refuses, says no point in wasting money). When the children have not been in the house, I walked naked in front of him in an effort to seduce him(this thing I did not even do in front of my affair partner). I have stated in explicit and dirty words that I want him to do me real bad (his response to such talks has crushed me from inside). Infact I can't think of having left any stone unturned to just get him to bed with me. But he is apparently the proverbial unmoveable object...

He was not like this. We had an exciting sexual life till the discovery of my affair. He says thats why he feels more inadequate. I assured him he is not, it was only me and my selfish desires that led me to seek another man. Only if he will believe me...

This gets more difficult due to the fact he and I sleep separately. Since discovery, he asked me to sleep with our daughters. Then he built himself another room where he now sleeps.

My husband is very attractive. Men of his age start losing hairs, grow bellies, develop various health issues. But he is slender and athletic with thick bushy hairs. And no health issues even when he is a smoker. You would think he was still 33-35. He is one of those rare guys that get handsomer as the years pass by.
So yes, I am crazy for him physically. Infact if he is to right now walk in the room and ask me to come to bed, I will jump despite how he has rejected me these last 3+ years....

I am at a loss. I don't know if I will ever experience the sweetness that intimacy brings between couples. I just can't take this anymore...

There is more to the story which will explain what will give a more clear picture of why my husband finds me so disgusting and why I landed in an affair (there is a very weird reason for that). I will write when I have more time....


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## Augusto

He's a destroyed man for sure. If he's that checked out than you may have to divorce. That perhaps may be the price for your actionsbut I cannot really comment nor could others unless you give the rest of the story. Otherwise you will get comments that may not matter.


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## tacoma

Have you asked your husband why he is still with you?

It's obvious he's checked out of the marraige and 3.5 years is a damn long time to overcome.

How old are your daughters?
He may very well be with you for their sake only and when they come of age you'll find yourself on the recieving end of divorce suit.

If he is attractive as you say it's likely he gets plenty of female attention, do you have any reason think he himself may have a mistress?

We'd need more info beginning with the questions above before we could help you wittle down the possibilities but I must tell you that nearly 4 years of zero intimacy for a man who has his qualities is going to be damn near impossible to overcome.

He obviously doesn't want you, why do you think he stays?


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## wmn1

ok. Please add to your story how long the affair was for and also what reasons your husband gave for denying you the sex for the last few years. He stuck around so to a degree he was offering some type of R. 

3.5 years is a long time to even get a trickle of a response. What your affair did was crush him from inside and you do know how wrong you were as you stated. Some people take longer to recover but maybe a good plan will do it. 

It is good that you still have tremendous attraction to him so he has to work on recovering as you will be needed to help him every step of the way.


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## KingwoodKev

No-redemption said:


> Hii everyone,
> I am desperately looking for any help. Infact I have looking looking for help in other sites similar to this. I don't if this one will be of any help.
> I should start by saying I am a wife that cheated. Got caught. That was 3.5 years ago. Since then my husband has not had any sex with me. Infact he has not touched me in any way, not even holding my hand since then.
> 
> I have tried talking to him. I have cried night after night in front of him. I have asked to get us help through marriage counselling (he refuses, says no point in wasting money). When the children have not been in the house, I walked naked in front of him in an effort to seduce him(this thing I did not even do in front of my affair partner). I have stated in explicit and dirty words that I want him to do me real bad (his response to such talks has crushed me from inside). Infact I can't think of having left any stone unturned to just get him to bed with me. But he is apparently the proverbial unmoveable object...
> 
> He was not like this. We had an exciting sexual life till the discovery of my affair. He says thats why he feels more inadequate. I assured him he is not, it was only me and my selfish desires that led me to seek another man. Only if he will believe me...
> 
> This gets more difficult due to the fact he and I sleep separately. Since discovery, he asked me to sleep with our daughters. Then he built himself another room where he now sleeps.
> 
> My husband is very attractive. Men of his age start losing hairs, grow bellies, develop various health issues. But he is slender and athletic with thick bushy hairs. And no health issues even when he is a smoker. You would think he was still 33-35. He is one of those rare guys that get handsomer as the years pass by.
> So yes, I am crazy for him physically. Infact if he is to right now walk in the room and ask me to come to bed, I will jump despite how he has rejected me these last 3+ years....
> 
> I am at a loss. I don't know if I will ever experience the sweetness that intimacy brings between couples. I just can't take this anymore...
> 
> There is more to the story which will explain what will give a more clear picture of why my husband finds me so disgusting and why I landed in an affair (there is a very weird reason for that). I will write when I have more time....


As a betrayed husband myself I'd say at this point if you have a chance to reconcile you have to lay your cards on the table. Tell him you either want to start that process or you should talk about divorce. Time to fish or cut bait. STAY HUMBLE. Don't dare get angry with him. If this is going to proceed he gets to set the agenda.

Ask him what it would take to begin reconciliation. A list of things you need to do. He doesn't have to finish it right away. Let him think about it. Ask him to think about in his heart if he can ever take you back and what it would take for that to happen. Living in limbo doesn't work for anybody. Not you, not him, and not the kids. Trust me, I know.

Again, humble yourself. You have no idea the pain you caused him. You were the one person in the world he trusted more than any other. The person he would never think could do something like this. I honest to God wished for so long that my wife had just shot me in the head instead of cheat. It would have been so much less painful. That's how much pain you inflicted. If you haven't felt that pain there are no words I can tell you that would give you any idea.

Ask him if reconciliation is possible.
If yes, then ask for a detailed list of his requirements to begin.
If no, then call the lawyers and both of you get on with your lives.

By the way, you might also suggest he comes here. He'll find a bunch of us betrayed husbands he can talk to. That worked for me better than talking to shrinks.


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## MarriedDude

for any serious help, you will need to provide more background.

In the event that you catch some flack from other posters, BS's, and the like. Please take it with a grain of salt and understand they will project. They are hurting, like you, and might not be able to contemplate your desire to save and improve your marriage There is help here for you. Don't be discouraged.

Post more when you can. Keep your chin up, there is rarely a problem that cannot be solved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on

I can only tell you that upon learning of my wife's affair I was emasculated. I thought I couldn't please her intimately. My WW said the same as you, that it had nothing to do with that. Sadly I could only feel that was why she had cheated. I eventually came around with therapy. It doesn't appear that your husband will be able to get past your cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MovingAhead

You are asking if you will ever be ok... You really need to be asking if he will ever be ok.

He is obviously destroyed and I can tell you personally what being betrayed does to someone near and long term. My girl asked me if I wanted to see 50 Shades of Gray. She thought it would be arousing and I am all for that, but it is based on adultery so I had to tell her no. It would cause me to have triggers and basically put me in a mood that I don't want to be in. I will never be around adultery without denouncing it, but that is me. It is the effect it has on me and I am ok with who I am. She understood, so we will make other arrangements

Your husband needs to heal. He has been betrayed but now he is being a martyr and inflicting his pain on both of you. You need to move on, both heal or both go your own ways. Make a decision, have him make a separate decision and if you agree work on it together or go your own ways and try to find some happiness. 

You can find redemption. The first step is to find remorse. Don't be sorry you got caught, understand the fall out and try to make it better and if it is hopeless move on for both of your sakes.


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## vellocet

MarriedDude said:


> for any serious help, you will need to provide more background.
> 
> In the event that you catch some flack from other posters, BS's, and the like. Please take it with a grain of salt and understand they will project.


Exactly. Because having been in her husband's shoes, we couldn't possibly be able to represent what is more than likely going through his mind

You see it as a BS "projecting". I see it as "representing" and if she wants to know what is more than likely running around his brain...she'll listen.

But I'll reserve what I'll respond with until we hear more of this. I could respond on the cheating itself, but there may be more as to why he is moving himself into another room, 3.5 years and not getting past it, etc. But then again if I respond with what it is he is likely thinking, then I must be "projecting"


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## No-redemption

Let me first give the reason for the affair and who it was with. As I said it is very weird and warped....

My affair was with one of my young employee. He was 23 at the time. I was 36. This guy had a gf. 

But the main reason that attracted me to this guy (or boy) was not because he was a young stud but because his gf looking eerily similar to one of my college mate. This college mate had a boyfriend who I had a crush on. And this girl somehow found that. After that she made it a mission in her life to make me jealous. She would constantly cuddle with her boyfriend, gush about him, hold him, hug him, all in front of me. Needless to say I was miserable. Miserable about an unrequited love. I cried myself to bed every night. Kept his pictures, talked to the picture (pathetic me). Just because of this crush, I went through my college life without any relationship.

I don't want to embarass myself with more details.

Years later I start my own HR consulting business and sometime later hire this young guy. No feelings in the beginning, both from our side. But it all changed when one day in one social gathering this guy brings his GF. I was dumbstruck. Memories came flooding back of my college days. Next day onward I start to pry about the boy's gf. Started by flirty question like "you two look cute", "you are lucky", "what draws you to her"....

The more he answered about his GF the more it felt like this girl was exactly like my college mate. I now understand, in my then mental state I was projecting when these were too different people. You guys are now getting the drift....

I get jealous. Again become the hopeless pursuer. But this time because of my mature age and a confident business woman, I deal with this in a more tactful way. I got determined that I will have this boy to myself. And soon what follows is typical affair script.

The affair went for 8 months before my husband found out.

When I think back now, its so disgusting how I acted....


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## thummper

Curious about why your hubby feels "inadequate." Did you somehow imply that your AP's "equipment" was larger than his? I can tell you that men are very touchy about hearing that they "don't measure up." Whether it's true or not, they feel that larger size gives the woman more pleasure. Did you somehow rhapsodize about his technique in the sack? Did you do sexual things with him that you refused to do with your husband. This seems to be a common complaint in affairs. You need to understand why he's feeling this way. If he is, as you say, very handsome and a good lover, why in the world did you seek out someone else? Seems like you have a lot of questions to answer for him....or have you already had this conversation with him, and the explanation you gave is the cause of his lack on intimacy with you? Good luck.


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## chillymorn

will I forever pay this price? YES

and so will he.

even if he comes around to having sex it will always be in the background.

3.5yrs sounds like hes staying for the kid. a strong take it on the chin kind of guy who wants to see his child grow and sees his responsibility of a provider for his family as a priority no matter what.

If you really loved him you would file for divorce and be a reasonable as possible. this is what your teaching your child a marriage is suppose to be like be we all know this is very very far from what a marriage is suppose to be.


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## MovingAhead

No-redemption said:


> Let me first give the reason for the affair and who it was with. As I said it is very weird and warped....
> 
> My affair was with one of my young employee. He was 23 at the time. I was 36. This guy had a gf.
> 
> But the main reason that attracted me to this guy (or boy) was not because he was a young stud but because his gf looking eerily similar to one of my college mate. This college mate had a boyfriend who I had a crush on. And this girl somehow found that. After that she made it a mission in her life to make me jealous. She would constantly cuddle with her boyfriend, gush about him, hold him, hug him, all in front of me. Needless to say I was miserable. Miserable about an unrequited love. I cried myself to bed every night. Kept his pictures, talked to the picture (pathetic me). Just because of this crush, I went through my college life without any relationship.
> 
> I don't want to embarass myself with more details.
> 
> Years later I start my own HR consulting business and sometime later hire this young guy. No feelings in the beginning, both from our side. But it all changed when one day in one social gathering this guy brings his GF. I was dumbstruck. Memories came flooding back of my college days. Next day onward I start to pry about the boy's gf. Started by flirty question like "you two look cute", "you are lucky", "what draws you to her"....
> 
> The more he answered about his GF the more it felt like this girl was exactly like my college mate. I now understand, in my then mental state I was projecting when these were too different people. You guys are now getting the drift....
> 
> I get jealous. Again become the hopeless pursuer. But this time because of my mature age and a confident business woman, I deal with this in a more tactful way. I got determined that I will have this boy to myself. And soon what follows is typical affair script.
> 
> The affair went for 8 months before my husband found out.
> 
> When I think back now, its so disgusting how I acted....


So let me translate this at take out all of the BullSh.. while I'm doing it...

You cheated because you wanted to... 

Honestly, I don't think too many people here give a damn about you sad sob story unless they are drama induced but you are so caught up in you that you refuse to deal with the issues. Take your selfish persona over to your husband and ask him what is wrong.

You will never get repentance without remorse and you really don't seem to have a lot of that. You have a lot of oh me me me me me... It's so hard. Your husband did what to you to deserve any of what you gave him? Sound like a whole bunch of nothing. You really should open your eyes and look at the world not from your perspective but the people you hurt!


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## MarriedDude

vellocet said:


> Exactly. Because having been in her husband's shoes, we couldn't possibly be able to represent what is more than likely going through his mind
> 
> You see it as a BS "projecting". I see it as "representing" and if she wants to know what is more than likely running around his brain...she'll listen.


If I offended, I do apologize. Not my intent at all. By projecting -I mean projecting their anger and feelings of betrayal onto her husband...believing that we know what is going through this mans mind is presumptuous.

Believing that all BS's have identical feelings and motivations- also presumptuous. Similarities, of course....but not always. 

Attacking or otherwise slamming and shaming the WS's that come here -helps no one. Not the WS, not the BS, not even the other posters. Just my humble opinion. I don't have thousands of posts here, tons of background on this site. It would seem, in my limited experience, that help can only be given to those that ask for it. Knowledge can only be given to us by those that feel safe enough to share it. 

That was all I meant by project....I wasn't discounting anyone's potential contributions. Merely hoping that she will come back, provide background and get some help- she seemed sincere in her desire to repair the damage that was inflicted.


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## Jellybeans

Disclaimer: You're going to get slammed in this thread. Anyone who has cheated who comes to TAM posting their story does in the Coping with Infidelity section. Just putting that out there because that's the general way things work around here.

Re: what to do and your question: 

Have you done any marriage counseling? Have you spoken to him about how you feel? How he feels? This is where you need to start and determine what your end goals are. When you know what the end goal is that you both want to have/meet, etc, then you can make a plan of action. Know that he will never forget your affair and it will always be a part of marriage's history. Some couples can recover and work through an affair. Others cannot. If both partners are not willing to work through the aftermath of an affair, then it may be best to divorce. Otherwise, if you both want the marriage to work, both will have to do their part to help recover it. 

Good luck.


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## vellocet

No-redemption said:


> Let me first give the reason for the affair and who it was with. As I said it is very weird and warped....
> 
> My affair was with one of my young employee. He was 23 at the time. I was 36. This guy had a gf.


Well then that may be part of it. He thinks you have a thing for young studs. And since he is no longer one himself, he will always wonder what young guy you want to bed down.




> But the main reason that attracted me to this guy (or boy) was not because he was a young stud but because his gf looking eerily similar to one of my college mate.


Ok first off you H is never going to believe that you didn't want this young stud for that reason.

Secondly, really? You wanted to bone this guy because of his gf? Really? If that's the reason you'll betray your husband, I'd hate to see what happens when you are really attracted to someone and don't want them because of what their gf is doing.




> Years later I start my own HR consulting business and sometime later hire this young guy. No feelings in the beginning, both from our side. But it all changed when one day in one social gathering this guy brings his GF. I was dumbstruck. Memories came flooding back of my college days. Next day onward I start to pry about the boy's gf. Started by flirty question like "you two look cute", "you are lucky", "what draws you to her"....



Ok, so you basically slept with this guy because of a past experience with a guy and his gf?

Again, if this is enough to make you bed him down and betray your husband, then I'd hate to see what you do if you do become extremely attracted to someone. If your husband knows the reason you cheated as being jealousy over a gf, then I understand why he isn't getting past this. *He can't even trust you around a guy that you didn't even have designs on*.



> I get jealous. Again before the hopeless pursuer. But this time because of my mature age and a confident business woman, I deal with this in a more tactful way. I got determined that I will have this boy to myself. And soon what follows is typical affair script.
> 
> When I think back now, its so disgusting how I acted....


Now I understand why your husband is not wanting to recommit to you. As if cheating wasn't bad enough, this is even worse for him to swallow.

So basically here it is. Your husband doesn't want you because if he did, all he would see is a woman's face that was having sex with a young boy. He probably thinks that you'll just dream of him rather than enjoy your husband.

Divorce is always my default advice, but not always. It depends on the situation. But in this situation, I don't see your husband ever seeing you the same again. He is disgusted, he is hurt, he feels like you are not the person he fell in love with.

I'll tell you how I saw my wife after I found out she f***d someone else. I felt like wanting to throw up. When I looked at her, all I could see is the word "cheater" stamped across her forehead, as well as a couple of other choice characteristics.
However I couldn't stay in the house and married to her just for the kids. Your husband probably can't bear the thought of leaving the home and kids. That's my guess.

Bottom line. And I'm telling you this because your H is probably just like me. He doesn't even want to look at you. He probably gets angry inside when he does.

So what do you do? You may have to make the decision for him. If you don't like what you have caused, then perhaps you may be the one that needs to file for divorce, for his sake. Because he probably wouldn't do it on his own.

And who knows, maybe talking about divorce may make him snap out of it, but the problems you cause will still linger.

So all I can do is tell you what he is more than likely thinking. I don't think there is anything you can do. You can't unf*** that kid.


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## chillymorn

????? so you cheated because you had a crush on someone in college that looked like this guy.

there we have it the absolute worst reason I ever heard about why someone cheated.

not that any reason is an ok reason to cheat on the one person who you vowed to love. 

but this one is just .............................out there.


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## No-redemption

MovingAhead said:


> So let me translate this at take out all of the BullSh.. while I'm doing it...
> 
> You cheated because you wanted to...


You don't think I don't know that? You think I have not said any of this to my H?

Yes, I have. All of it. With all its gory details. 

What do you think I tell him when I cry my eyes out in front of him? I have never blamed him. I fully admit my fallibility in this and how I willing brought back the past to destroy my present and my future.


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## WonkyNinja

Well I can understand his anger but there comes a point where he has to decide if he wants a future with you or not, and that point comes well before 3.5 years.

He doesn't get to punish you on a daily basis for that long as that is not a marriage or a partnership.

If you have proven that you will do whatever is necessary to make the marriage work again then the decision to try or not is his, and he's had enough time to make it.

It's more than a little ironic that someone running an HR Consultancy would have an affair with a young employee and that seemed like a really weird reason for an affair.

But one way or the other you need to get on with your lives. 

If he's staying for your daughter he's doing a really bad job of it. If she grows up seeing a marriage where the two partners don't sleep together or have any form of affection in their relationship is giving her a dreadful example for her own life.
For her sake you both need to move on and find someone to be happy with.


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## MarriedDude

No-redemption said:


> Let me first give the reason for the affair and who it was with. As I said it is very weird and warped....
> 
> My affair was with one of my young employee. He was 23 at the time. I was 36. This guy had a gf.
> 
> But the main reason that attracted me to this guy (or boy) was not because he was a young stud but because his gf looking eerily similar to one of my college mate. This college mate had a boyfriend who I had a crush on. And this girl somehow found that. After that she made it a mission in her life to make me jealous. She would constantly cuddle with her boyfriend, gush about him, hold him, hug him, all in front of me. Needless to say I was miserable. Miserable about an unrequited love. I cried myself to bed every night. Kept his pictures, talked to the picture (pathetic me). Just because of this crush, I went through my college life without any relationship.
> 
> I don't want to embarass myself with more details.
> 
> Years later I start my own HR consulting business and sometime later hire this young guy. No feelings in the beginning, both from our side. But it all changed when one day in one social gathering this guy brings his GF. I was dumbstruck. Memories came flooding back of my college days. Next day onward I start to pry about the boy's gf. Started by flirty question like "you two look cute", "you are lucky", "what draws you to her"....
> 
> The more he answered about his GF the more it felt like this girl was exactly like my college mate. I now understand, in my then mental state I was projecting when these were too different people. You guys are now getting the drift....
> 
> I get jealous. Again become the hopeless pursuer. But this time because of my mature age and a confident business woman, I deal with this in a more tactful way. I got determined that I will have this boy to myself. And soon what follows is typical affair script.
> 
> The affair went for 8 months before my husband found out.
> 
> When I think back now, its so disgusting how I acted....



Can you describe, briefly, your husbands personality prior to the affair discovery/disclosure? 

Has your husband articulated what about the affair disturbs him the most? Have you asked?

Did he ask for and/or receive full disclosure about the affair and events that let to it?

Does this young man still work for you or ever have cause to contact you? Has ALL contact been terminated?

Have you asked your husband to return to the bed you used to share? If you have- what was his response- exactly?

Has your husband discussed the possibility of divorce? Have you? If it has been brought up...who brought it up first. 

How did your husband find out about the affair? 

Finally...is the story you presented above, the same story you told your husband? If so -I have to say that it doesn't really ring true/realistic (I could be wrong...just a gut feeling). Your husband may very well feel the same. Has he ever told you that? (This is not an accusation...just a question)


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## vellocet

Here is another thing to ponder. Lets put aside you cheated with a much younger boy just because you "wanted him all to yourself". Cheating is enough.

I can't speak for women, but I do believe when I speak for men, its accurate for MOST of us...not all.

So when we men find out our wives let another man penetrate them, we get angry. We fume inside. And we replay movies over and over in our mind of our wives bouncing up and down on another man's d!ck. We imagine her sucking him off, swallowing....the whole gamut of things that our wives more than likely did.
We imagine them enjoying the hell out of parting the thighs for another man.

Get my drift? Most of us just can't shake it and we get ANGRY as hell. That outward anger soon turns to bottled up anger and resentment. And for some of us, as I imagine it is for your husband, we see certain words stamped across your forehead.

So you have betrayed him in one of the worst ways possible. You willingly gave up to a young stud what is only to be reserved for him. You not only gave it up to this kid, you SOUGHT HIM out and for a flimsy reason.

You wanted him all to yourself. Your husband will forever wonder who else you will see that you want to yourself. And no amount of words will make him believe you. THAT is the kind of anger and resentment that is spawned by what you did.

So the solution? Unless he can just snap out of it, which I doubt, the best thing you can do for him is move out, file for divorce. If your husband was exhibiting other kinds of reactions showing at least some willingness to try, I'd advise otherwise. 

But I recognize his anger, and IMO, there is nothing you can do. You did the damage and its done.


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## vellocet

No-redemption said:


> I have never blamed him.


I can at least commend you for that.


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## Affaircare

No-redemption, 

I speak to you today as someone who was a former Disloyal Spouse, so I have also cheated, and I'm not trying to be mean or responding out of raw triggers from being a Loyal Spouse myself. 

And speaking to you as a former Disloyal Spouse, yes, you will pay the price forever. Even if the two of you were to happily reconcile and save your marriage, it will never be "the way it was" again, because you chose to step outside your marriage. You had the love and trust of a handsome man, and you demolished the love and broke the trust. 

The BEST you can hope for is to rebuild something entirely new and different that is also good for both of you: in other words, it will not be "the way it was" but it might be "a whole new way" and the new way could be more mature, more healthy and very loving. That's THE BEST. But even if you build the best, and I personally think my Dear Hubby and I have rebuilt in the best possible way, you will forever bear the burden of the choice you made, and he will forever bear the scar of the damage you've done. Think of it like losing an arm or leg. Yep you can "go on" after losing an arm, but it's not like the arm grows back. That arm is gone, and so it your marriage "the way it was." You can choose to go on and have a happy life without the arm, and adjust to life with one arm, but it is never the same. 

So #1, your marriage has forever changed. It will never ever be the same. So the wisest thing to do is to stop trying to make it "the way it was." 

#2 I'd suggest starting utterly over again with your husband. I take it from your posts that English is not your first language and/or you do not live in the USA or UK. If that is the case, the way you view a husband is potentially different than the way a woman from the US or UK view a husband. He is likely not only the man you love (like we view it over here) but also the one who provides for you and your children, and the one who keeps the reputation and the one who your family chose for you and thinks would be good for you. Thus, in his mind he may believe he is meeting his obligation to you just by not kicking you out in the street! 

If this is the case, and if this is moreso how you and your extended family see marriage, then I'd suggest that in your mind you start over with your husband. Instead of focusing on getting an orgasm, think of how you can become his best friend. Have you let him talk to you about how he feels? Have you given him a safe place to recover from the wounds your infidelity caused? Have you just had fun with him and enjoyed his company because you LIKE him? 

I would say start there, and start with ending the things you do that hurt him, such as yelling at him, being critical, judging him, etc. Work on yourself so you are not that kind of woman, and at the same time, work on being a friend to him. Yes I realize it's been 3.5 years but you have to start from scratch because whatever you had before, you dropped a bomb on it when you had an affair. All that you had was destroyed and now your job is to take the time and make the effort to rebuild in a warzone that you created.


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## Dogbert

Your issues scream out loud for IC (individual counseling). Are you going to counseling to address and resolve your personal issues? To simply disregard what appears to be a good marriage simply for an ego boost, shows that the problem is on your side and not on your marriage nor husband's side.

As far as your husband is concerned, I agree with the other posters that he is only with you because of the kids. As strange as it seems, he does not want to offend you and tells you that he feels inadequate when the truth is that he no longer has any sexual desire for you - 3.5 years without sexual intimacy with a woman he once desired passionately. I know how he feels because I lost all sexual desire for my XWW when I discovered her betrayal. But unlike you and your husband, we didn't have children so the decision to divorce her was easier though no less painful choice.

Unfortunately, I don't have any encouraging advice except to continue engaging in talk. Engage him without any blaming, shaming nor demanding on your part. If divorce is what he wants, then validate his decision and offer a custody sharing that is to both of your liking.


----------



## vellocet

MarriedDude said:


> Can you describe, briefly, your husbands personality prior to the affair discovery/disclosure?



Why? What relevance does that have here?




> Does this young man still work for you or ever have cause to contact you? Has ALL contact been terminated?


That can be tricky. She, the boss, seduced HIM. To fire him over it would be unfair, and if he was smart, he'd sue.


----------



## Yeswecan

No-redemption said:


> You don't think I don't know that? You think I have not said any of this to my H?
> 
> Yes, I have. All of it. With all its gory details.
> 
> What do you think I tell him when I cry my eyes out in front of him? I have never blamed him. I fully admit my fallibility in this and how I willing brought back the past to destroy my present and *my future.*


Your future was written at that time. You are living it. Only you can change that future. It appears it will not be with your H in spirit. Just two parents taking care of their children. 

However, it might be one of those situations where you begin the separation process for you H to perhaps come around and work on the marriage again. Whatever the case. What once was is not longer. It will never be again. Only you can accept or reject the new reality.


----------



## KingwoodKev

vellocet said:


> When I looked at her, all I could see is the word "cheater" stamped across her forehead, as well as a couple of other choice characteristics.


It would be nice if someday it was law that this had to be tattooed on the foreheads of WS's. That way they couldn't dupe other people into relationships with them.


----------



## MarriedDude

vellocet said:


> Here is another thing to ponder. Lets put aside you cheated with a much younger boy just because you "wanted him all to yourself". Cheating is enough.
> 
> I can't speak for women, but I do believe when I speak for men, its accurate for MOST of us...not all.
> 
> S*o when we men find out our wives let another man penetrate them, we get angry. We fume inside. And we replay movies over and over in our mind of our wives bouncing up and down on another man's d!ck. We imagine her sucking him off, swallowing....the whole gamut of things that our wives more than likely did.
> We imagine them enjoying the hell out of parting the thighs for another man.*
> 
> Get my drift? Most of us just can't shake it and we get ANGRY as hell. That outward anger soon turns to bottled up anger and resentment. And for some of us, as I imagine it is for your husband, we see certain words stamped across your forehead.
> 
> So you have betrayed him in one of the worst ways possible. *You willingly gave up to a young stud what is only to be reserved for him.* You not only gave it up to this kid, you SOUGHT HIM out and for a flimsy reason.
> 
> You wanted him all to yourself. *Your husband will forever wonder who else you will see that you want to yourself.* And no amount of words will make him believe you. THAT is the kind of anger and resentment that is spawned by what you did.
> 
> So the solution? Unless he can just snap out of it, which I doubt, the best thing you can do for him is move out, file for divorce. If your husband was exhibiting other kinds of reactions showing at least some willingness to try, I'd advise otherwise.
> 
> But I recognize his anger, and IMO, there is nothing you can do. You did the damage and its done.


These are very pertinent statements to your, OP's, problem. These are the things that serious resentment is made from. Unfortunately for him...the person that betrayed him...YOU OP...are the only one that can help him through that...That very person that hurt him so badly, is the person that can help. That is a hard thing to deal with. Hard enough that most cannot, understandably so, take. 

Has your husband articulated ANY concerns like this to you? How did you react -exactly.


----------



## MarriedDude

vellocet said:


> Why? What relevance does that have here?


 Very relevant. Significant personality change over an extended period that moves into all other facets of the individuals life speaks to the ability to actually heal. Low Probability of success.

If the BS has the ability, over time, to return to a normal baseline personality in aspects other than with the WS -that demonstrates some ability to compartmentalize. That ability can be harnessed to help repair the family. High Probability of Success.


----------



## ThePheonix

No-redemption said:


> You guys are now getting the drift....


Unfortunately I do. You want your college mates boyfriend that you couldn't have; despite you likely trying. This young copy of her boyfriend shows up and you just have to diddly with him. Let me clue you in on why your husband doesn't want to have anything to do with you. He figured out that he doesn't need a woman who will cast him aside on a whim to get whatever she wants. 
Face it my girl, he's wondering who else is going to be in the saddle the next time a twenty something year old guy reminds you of a cute boy from times past that made you wet your pants. What's worse is that you are the poster girl for female sexual harasser. If I was this young stud, I'd own you and the company. If Iwas your old man, I would have replaced you three years ago with a woman who could at least keep her hand off her male employees.


----------



## Dogbert

vellocet said:


> Here is another thing to ponder. Lets put aside you cheated with a much younger boy just because you "wanted him all to yourself". Cheating is enough.
> 
> I can't speak for women, but I do believe when I speak for men, its accurate for MOST of us...not all.
> 
> So when we men find out our wives let another man penetrate them, we get angry. We fume inside. And we replay movies over and over in our mind of our wives bouncing up and down on another man's d!ck. We imagine her sucking him off, swallowing....the whole gamut of things that our wives more than likely did.
> We imagine them enjoying the hell out of parting the thighs for another man.
> 
> Get my drift? Most of us just can't shake it and we get ANGRY as hell. That outward anger soon turns to bottled up anger and resentment. And for some of us, as I imagine it is for your husband, we see certain words stamped across your forehead.
> 
> So you have betrayed him in one of the worst ways possible. You willingly gave up to a young stud what is only to be reserved for him. You not only gave it up to this kid, you SOUGHT HIM out and for a flimsy reason.
> 
> You wanted him all to yourself. Your husband will forever wonder who else you will see that you want to yourself. And no amount of words will make him believe you. THAT is the kind of anger and resentment that is spawned by what you did.
> 
> So the solution? Unless he can just snap out of it, which I doubt, the best thing you can do for him is move out, file for divorce. If your husband was exhibiting other kinds of reactions showing at least some willingness to try, I'd advise otherwise.
> 
> But I recognize his anger, and IMO, there is nothing you can do. You did the damage and its done.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

The horrific mind movies that come up anytime and anywhere are like battlefield flashbacks. Unless you have any personal experience with them, you have no idea what gut wrenching ordeal they bring to husbands and wives (women experience them as well).


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

IDK, 3.5 years is a very long time to go with zero progress. My opinion is that this marriage is dead. He's sticking around for the kid. How old is your child (or children)? If you do nothing, my guess is that as soon as the youngest turns 18, he's divorcing you. It's up to you on whether you can live with this until the inevitable or if you would prefer to divorce so that you two can both start to heal from this. 

This is my opinion. I have no personal experience with being a cheater or being cheated on. However, I do feel confident in my experiences with my own marriage so I'm not completely wet behind the ears. But everyone here who has been cheated on will give you their first hand experiences.


----------



## No-redemption

MarriedDude said:


> *Can you describe, briefly, your husbands personality prior to the affair discovery/disclosure?*
> 
> I will save this for another response. This will be long.
> 
> *Has your husband articulated what about the affair disturbs him the most? Have you asked?*
> 
> Mu husband is not disturbed by the age of my ex-lover. He is more disturbed by the fact that I was in love with a person from my past and was not upfront about it. He says I will forever love that guy from college and now that I have slept with another man only shows him that I will always love my college crush.
> 
> *Did he ask for and/or receive full disclosure about the affair and events that let to it?*
> 
> Yes he did and I gave him. I gave him such gory details (thought he figured our some of them on his own), that I wish I hadn't.
> 
> *Does this young man still work for you or ever have cause to contact you? Has ALL contact been terminated?
> *
> Within a month I terminated his employment even when he was very competent professionally. No contact with him for 3.5 years.
> 
> *Have you asked your husband to return to the bed you used to share? If you have- what was his response- exactly?*
> 
> Have you read my initial post? He told me in no uncertain terms that our husband-wife relation is dead. And he described how we would live in the future. He cooks 3 days, I cook 4 days of the week, he does groceries once, then I do next time, he pays half for our children, I pay half......basically we are housemates with equal sharing.
> 
> *Has your husband discussed the possibility of divorce? Have you? If it has been brought up...who brought it up first.*
> 
> He said he would not divorce. Reason is again this is related to you first question which I will answer later.
> 
> *How did your husband find out about the affair?*
> 
> Was suspicious one time talking to me on the phone when he heard my lover giggle. Couldn't find anything on my phone. Skipped office for a week to keep a look on my office and house. Found me taking my lover to our house
> 
> *Finally...is the story you presented above, the same story you told your husband? If so -I have to say that it doesn't really ring true/realistic (I could be wrong...just a gut feeling). Your husband may very well feel the same. Has he ever told you that? (This is not an accusation...just a question)*
> 
> Yes I told everything and exactly the same. And this story is true, however disgusting it is.


----------



## convert

MarriedDude said:


> Can you describe, briefly, your husbands personality prior to the affair discovery/disclosure?
> 
> Has your husband articulated what about the affair disturbs him the most? Have you asked?
> 
> Did he ask for and/or receive full disclosure about the affair and events that let to it?
> 
> *Does this young man still work for you* or ever have cause to contact you? Has ALL contact been terminated?
> 
> Have you asked your husband to return to the bed you used to share? If you have- what was his response- exactly?
> 
> Has your husband discussed the possibility of divorce? Have you? If it has been brought up...who brought it up first.
> 
> How did your husband find out about the affair?
> 
> Finally...is the story you presented above, the same story you told your husband? If so -I have to say that it doesn't really ring true/realistic (I could be wrong...just a gut feeling). Your husband may very well feel the same. Has he ever told you that? (This is not an accusation...just a question)


the bold-ed part above is a good question, if he is that could explain the reason OP's Husband can't move on.
we tell BS here that if the ws had an affair with coworker the best thing is for one of them to quit for R to work if not there will always be doubt in the BS mind.


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## ConanHub

Girl.... What have you done to fix your malfunction? That is on the level of a mental disorder and I would never trust you again. What help have you obtained?

Look at yourself objectively. Why should your H be interested in you? You blew your whole family out your butt because of a dumb ass emotional scar from college.

What good man would be attracted to someone as unstable as that?

What have you done to change?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vellocet

MarriedDude said:


> Very relevant. Significant personality change over an extended period that moves into all other facets of the individuals life speaks to the ability to actually heal. Low Probability of success.
> 
> If the BS has the ability, over time, to return to a normal baseline personality in aspects other than with the WS -that demonstrates some ability to compartmentalize. That ability can be harnessed to help repair the family. High Probability of Success.


You sure that's what you were getting at? This is what you said that prompted me to ask what the relevance is.



> Can you describe, briefly, your husbands personality prior to the affair discovery/disclosure?


This, to me, is trying to assign "reason" to the WS's cheating.

It doesn't have anything to do with the success of him to heal AFTER finding out he had been cheated on since he doesn't know at that point.


----------



## vellocet

Another thing is, if her husband knows what she told us here, is that he'll never believe that in the future that she won't look at another man, especially a younger man, and not think to herself, "boy I gotta break me off a piece of that!!"

If he knows what we know from this thread, he will think she is just an insatiable nympho that wants to make younger men hers.

So with that, as Conan said, what is she going to do first to fix herself? Think of it as a totaled car. Its going to take a lot of the body shops man hours to fix that kind of broken.


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## Dogbert

Oh and parading naked in front of him as a way to seduce him is actually a trigger for the mind movies. Even though you said that you never did that for your AP, he views it as a lame and laughable attempt to put a bandaid over a gaping wound that needs surgical suturing. A much better way to express your desire for physical contact with him is to simply hold his hands in yours for as long as he wants and nothing more.


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## Dyokemm

OP,

Regardless of the specific details of the situation, you have essentially cheated for the same general reason most other WS do.

Namely...there is something really broken inside you because of your past.

For some its family of origin (FOO) issues....others the brokenness comes from CSA.

In the end it doesn't matter in general terms what broke you originally.....what IS important is that this brokenness will make you totally unsafe for your BH to be with until YOU resolve it.

This leads me to an important question....have you been in IC at all to fix the issues you have that led you to destroy your M and family?

If you have not taken this step to fix your problems, and shared with your BH the progress you have made towards fixing them, then it is entirely possible that a PART of his holding back is a feeling that you're totally unsafe.

If you could do this once, and have never done anything to address your brokenness, then he would have to believe you can do it again.


----------



## Thundarr

No-redemption said:


> Let me first give the reason for the affair and who it was with. As I said it is very weird and warped....


There's nothing wrong with analyzing the thought processes that were going on. You'll get some WTF comments but it sounded logical to me. Projecting past insecurities motivates a lot of people to do and say bad things and throwing in a jealous and competitive nature adds to it. Anyway I think trying to figure out why you made mistakes is a good thing.

So 3.5 years with no intimacy makes me wonder why the h3ll he didn't file for divorce about 3 years ago. Can you give in any details as to why he would stay married to someone he has no emotional connection to?

And finally, you've alluded to a few things that show a troubling personality trait that keeps repeating it's self. Back in college you waisted years pining after a man you couldn't have. Then your affair was with someone you felt like you were not supposed to be able to have and now your not seeing that your marriage is over because yet again, you're persuing a man who no longer wants you. This cat and mouse game where you only want what you can't have is a big red flag to a character flaw and if you don't try to fix that then your destined to be always chasing and never content.


----------



## No-redemption

For everyone asking

Yes I went to a psychiatrist. After discovery I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep for a long time. Eventually fell ill. The doctor told me to check a psychiatrist and referred one. I went there for a full year. I don't go regularly now but I check in from time to time to review my course of medicines. I do this because as you all see, I am under too much stress.


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## MarriedDude

Originally Posted by MarriedDude View Post
Can you describe, briefly, your husbands personality prior to the affair discovery/disclosure? 

I will save this for another response. This will be long.

Has your husband articulated what about the affair disturbs him the most? Have you asked?

Mu husband is not disturbed by the age of my ex-lover. He is more disturbed by the fact that I was in love with a person from my past and was not upfront about it. He says I will forever love that guy from college and now that I have slept with another man only shows him that I will always love my college crush.

_*Well, that's tough. How would you go about dispelling this assumption of his? Do you believe it is possible to somehow prove otherwise?* _


Did he ask for and/or receive full disclosure about the affair and events that let to it?

Yes he did and I gave him. I gave him such gory details (thought he figured our some of them on his own), that I wish I hadn't.

Does this young man still work for you or ever have cause to contact you? Has ALL contact been terminated?

Within a month I terminated his employment even when he was very competent professionally. No contact with him for 3.5 years.

Have you asked your husband to return to the bed you used to share? If you have- what was his response- exactly?

Have you read my initial post? He told me in no uncertain terms that our husband-wife relation is dead. And he described how we would live in the future. He cooks 3 days, I cook 4 days of the week, he does groceries once, then I do next time, he pays half for our children, I pay half......basically we are housemates with equal sharing.

_*Yes, I read the initial post...this was not in it. Did you agree to this arrangement? Or did it just come to pass? Have you expressed to him that this situation is untenable? Not for you really...but for him. The pain your husband must endure daily is soul crushing. He has created (with your help) a pain incubator within which your entire family sits. Whether or not your marriage survives, it would seem your duty as someone that loves him -to do whatever it ultimately takes to curtail his suffering. Even if that means divorce- unless he has a very compelling reason not to.* _

Has your husband discussed the possibility of divorce? Have you? If it has been brought up...who brought it up first.

He said he would not divorce. Reason is again this is related to you first question which I will answer later. 

How did your husband find out about the affair? 

Was suspicious one time talking to me on the phone when he heard my lover giggle. Couldn't find anything on my phone. Skipped office for a week to keep a look on my office and house. Found me taking my lover to our house 

_*Also very telling as to his struggle. Are you in the same house? This would contribute HEAVILY to inability to be in the same bedroom with you. Have you thought of moving together as family to another residence?? For his sake you should strongly propose this.* _

Finally...is the story you presented above, the same story you told your husband? If so -I have to say that it doesn't really ring true/realistic (I could be wrong...just a gut feeling). Your husband may very well feel the same. Has he ever told you that? (This is not an accusation...just a question)

Yes I told everything and exactly the same. And this story is true, however disgusting it is.

_*Again..has he ever told you that he doesn't believe your reasoning?* _


----------



## SoulStorm

No-redemption said:


> I walked naked in front of him in an effort to seduce him(this thing I did not even do in front of my affair partner). ..


His thoughts _were _probably* "Did she do this with Mr. 23 yo stud?"*

I don't know if he asked for explicit details, but an 8 month affair with a younger guy, that probably had many encounters, is taking him to mind movie hell.
3.5 years and not even touching you speaks volumes. Seducing him is not the right way to do it. It just reinforces his disgust of the situation.

You can only nurture him back. If at all.
Only until he can not see you as damaged goods will he ever even want to touch you...

He is picturing you in great detail with Mr. 23 yo and if he knows details about your affair partners anatomy, he feels that he just can't compete.

No matter what you say, once you have shattered his ego he won't believe he is good enough for you.

You have to keep proving ,as long as he will let you, that you are sorry for what you did.

Don't just say you are...detail what you are sorry for.


----------



## Dogbert

No-redemption said:


> For everyone asking
> 
> Yes I went to a psychiatrist. After discovery I couldn't eat, could sleep for a long time. Eventually fell ill. The doctor told me to check a psychiatrist and referred one. I went there for a full year. I don't go regularly now but I check time to time to review my course of medicines. I do this because as you all see, I am under too much stress.


What personal issues were addressed and what are you doing to resolve them? Besides medication that is.


----------



## manfromlamancha

OK No-Redemption, here is my tuppence worth of comments:

These are the first feelings I had about you (in order), when I read your story and about your situation:

Weird (as in slightly mentally deranged in a Glenn Close sort of way)
Delusional
Experienced cheat and liar
Disrespectful
Self-entitled
Abusive
Potentially dangerous
HD sexually

Now I can explain why I felt each of these feelings but the bottom line is I wouldn't believe anything you told me from then on. Your husband must have been even more shocked since he was married to you for some time. I am not surprised at his treatment of you and if it were me, honestly I would only stay with you if I absolutely had to - but I too, would not touch you.

I also believe that you are deluding yourself at the moment. Accepting the blame does not tell me that you are genuinely sorry (for what you did to your husband) else you would let him go but be there for him should he want to vent. You are sorry that you got caught and could potentially lose your marriage now. 

Also you cost this young man his job - cold and abusive of your position (even though he should have known better).

And you quite simply enjoyed the sex with this young man - you came back for more again and again for 8 months! It would still be going on if he did not catch you. And on top of that, you were disrespectful enough to bring him to your own home!!! This had nothing to do with your "vendetta" against your college friend - this was pure lust-ridden disrespect. 

And it must have been crushing and emasculating for your husband - a young stud in his own bed!!!! I would have burnt every piece of furniture you did it on.

And now you are trying to force yourself on your disbelieving husband.

And he sees all of the above and more! So I am not surprised at his behaviour - only about the fact that he is still there.

So why is he with you still? You seem to suggest that it has something to do with his previous behaviour (I remain skeptical). 

In answer to your question (and depending on what you mean by it), no you will not have to forever pay the price as I believe he will be gone as soon as he can OR yes, you will pay a price forever, in that you will live with knowing what you did for the rest of your life.

I know it sounds harsh, but you can fix the situation for yourself, by thinking about him first and not yourself. If you did this, you would let him go and help him heal.


----------



## tacoma

Any sexual seduction of him will be seen as a manipulation attempt.
He will revolt against this.
Sexual seduction of him will also be a reminder of your lover.
You'd be better off attempting non-sexual affection.(hand holding,hugging,embracing.)

You say you were with your lover in your husbands home.
This is a serious problem, one I couldn't get past without moving.

Did you have sex with your lover in your husbands bed?
If so I know beyond a shadow of a doubt why he won't return to that bed..ever.

The location is a bad problem but he's not going to get past it until the location is no longer fuel for the imagination/mind movies.
Get a new bed, put it in a different room...do something to change that situation. Hell you may have to move.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

*No-redemption* it kinda seems like your husband's done, like seriously done. How are your interactions with him? 

What was the fallout of the affair? Was there exposure?

It seriously seems like he is staying until the children are old enough and that he just doesn't want a romantic relationship with you. He doesn't want to change his life and leave his home and not get to see the children everyday. I know of someone who waited ten years until their children graduated and immediately filed for divorce afterwards.

Here's what he is possibly going through. He probably experienced a lot of hurt, pain and anger for a year or two then just shut down, similar to or possibly depression. He's empty and feels nothing, maybe some excitement every now and then but basically he's lost that zest for life. You could parade a row of supermodels in front of him or throw him out of a plane without a parachute and it will barely get a rise out of him.

What has he been dong for himself? How does he spend his days?


----------



## cdbaker

KingwoodKev said:


> As a betrayed husband myself I'd say at this point if you have a chance to reconcile you have to lay your cards on the table. Tell him you either want to start that process or you should talk about divorce. Time to fish or cut bait. STAY HUMBLE. Don't dare get angry with him. If this is going to proceed he gets to set the agenda.
> 
> Ask him what it would take to begin reconciliation. A list of things you need to do. He doesn't have to finish it right away. Let him think about it. Ask him to think about in his heart if he can ever take you back and what it would take for that to happen. Living in limbo doesn't work for anybody. Not you, not him, and not the kids. Trust me, I know.
> 
> Again, humble yourself. You have no idea the pain you caused him. You were the one person in the world he trusted more than any other. The person he would never think could do something like this. I honest to God wished for so long that my wife had just shot me in the head instead of cheat. It would have been so much less painful. That's how much pain you inflicted. If you haven't felt that pain there are no words I can tell you that would give you any idea.
> 
> Ask him if reconciliation is possible.
> If yes, then ask for a detailed list of his requirements to begin.
> If no, then call the lawyers and both of you get on with your lives.
> 
> By the way, you might also suggest he comes here. He'll find a bunch of us betrayed husbands he can talk to. That worked for me better than talking to shrinks.


Seriously good advice from Kev here, re-read this twice!



vellocet said:


> Here is another thing to ponder. Lets put aside you cheated with a much younger boy just because you "wanted him all to yourself". Cheating is enough.
> 
> I can't speak for women, but I do believe when I speak for men, its accurate for MOST of us...not all.
> 
> So when we men find out our wives let another man penetrate them, we get angry. We fume inside. And we replay movies over and over in our mind of our wives bouncing up and down on another man's d!ck. We imagine her sucking him off, swallowing....the whole gamut of things that our wives more than likely did.
> We imagine them enjoying the hell out of parting the thighs for another man.
> 
> Get my drift? Most of us just can't shake it and we get ANGRY as hell. That outward anger soon turns to bottled up anger and resentment. And for some of us, as I imagine it is for your husband, we see certain words stamped across your forehead.
> 
> So you have betrayed him in one of the worst ways possible. You willingly gave up to a young stud what is only to be reserved for him. You not only gave it up to this kid, you SOUGHT HIM out and for a flimsy reason.
> 
> You wanted him all to yourself. Your husband will forever wonder who else you will see that you want to yourself. And no amount of words will make him believe you. THAT is the kind of anger and resentment that is spawned by what you did.
> 
> So the solution? Unless he can just snap out of it, which I doubt, the best thing you can do for him is move out, file for divorce. If your husband was exhibiting other kinds of reactions showing at least some willingness to try, I'd advise otherwise.
> 
> But I recognize his anger, and IMO, there is nothing you can do. You did the damage and its done.


Also a good explanation for what this did to your husband. I've had similar experiences. I know in another post you mentioned that you did have full disclosure with your husband and that you offered up a few "gory" details that you perhaps wished you had kept to yourself, or at least not offered them up willingingly. In full disclosure, you of course have to be 100% honest, answer ANY question asked, but there are some "gory" details that he would have been better off not knowing, namely the kind of details that do nothing but make that movie playing in his head that much dirtier.

For instance, my wife had an affair. The information I needed to know about were things like who the other man is, how long did the affair last, how did it start, has it fully ended, did they use protection, and maybe where did they physically copulate. Things I wish I didn't know, but do, are things like what positions they engaged in, in which parts of the rooms did they do it in, that she swallowed after giving him oral sex, what kind of things they discussed about me, etc. Those "movies" now replay in my mind with some frequency, and they have even more triggers than they would have if I hadn't known that additional information.


So go re-read what Kev said above. Stay humble, but also try to force a resolution to the situation at this point. Living separate lives as roommates is not an acceptable long term situation, and eventually there comes a time where you have to stop punishing yourself for what you've done, if he isn't willing to allow you to both move on together. Give him every opportunity to save the marriage together, listen to any thoughts/suggestions he might have, but insist that if he genuinely refuses to make any effort whatsoever towards healing the relationship, then divorce is the only remaining answer.


----------



## harrybrown

So sorry for your situation, but also for your H.

If he had an Affair, how would you feel?

I can understand how he feels inadequate. Can you see that he hurts, feels rejected, because you hid your A from him for many months. How many times did you have sex with the OM? Did you do things for the OM that you would not do for your H?

Your H feels rejected, because of your A, your deceit and not confessing. The hurt is deep. 

If you can get him to communicate with you, that would be a start. If he will not go to counseling, you can go. You can try to share with him some of your discoveries in counseling. 

If he will not talk to you, you can try to see if there are days where he will let you talk to him. Use that time to be totally honest and tell him what you are thinking, feeling and how you are changing. How what he thinks about you always being in love with someone else, how you feel about him. 

you could tell him if he had an A, what he could do to help you heal. You could give him std medical reports, you could give him DNA tests of your children. Try to be as honest as you can and talk to him about the elephant in the room. (your A and why you would never hurt him like this again, but it should be the truth.) 

Good luck, I do hope somehow you both find some peace. I always felt like second best, because she chose someone else and I was in town. Some days, you do not think that you can ever compete with her OM, but you should not have to compete. That competition should not have happened after getting married.


----------



## WonkyNinja

Thundarr said:


> So 3.5 years with no intimacy makes me wonder why the h3ll he didn't file for divorce about 3 years ago. Can you give in any details as to why he would stay married to someone he has no emotional connection to?


:iagree:


----------



## MarriedDude

WonkyNinja said:


> :iagree:


There must be much much more to the story. 

Possibly the Husband (misguidedly) feels some culpability/responsibility for WW actions?? Its hard to understand the motivation to remain given the summary that we currently have. Hard to understand his apparent (yes, speculative) desire to continue to immerse himself in such a painful situation. 

At my desk now...I hurt for this guy. I hope he heals somehow. Hopefully the OP can shed some light.


----------



## michzz

After what you did to your husband in your selfishness, he has gone into self-protection mode.

It matters not the passage of time, if there is no resolution. a person can be stuck in sustained emotional pain for many years. I know this from personal experience.

I stopped being intimate with my cheating wife because, frankly, I found the idea of sex with her to be repulsive after finding out the sustained nature of the affair.

I had intended to leave her in 2009-2010. Then i got laid off and didn't get my employment turned around until 2011. 

She went full nutso with involvement in a cult and I finally pulled the plug in 2012.

All of the folks stating that he is feeling emasculated are kind of wrong. That is a temporary feeling, at least for me it was. After that? Fury.

I know I am better than the jerk she cheated with in every way.

Minimizing contact with the ex while still in the house allowed me to not be homicidal and to punish her by sexual rejection.

I still had a libido, that didn't leave me. but we didn't have sex for five years.

But any interest in her was replaced by disgust.

She conducted an 8-year affair, infected me with STDs, wasted my time.

I'm surprised I have survived the ordeal.


So what does my rambling mean to you?


The same way that a betrayed person cannot nice a cheating spouse out of cheating, a cheating spouse cannot nice their betrayed spouse into wanting them again.

Most of the time the old marriage is gone, gone, gone. You blew it up.

It seems to me that your husband is in deep mourning for what was and cannot be again. 

He stays for his children. Not for you.

I'm not sure what you possibly could offer him that would interest him.

I don't say that to be cruel.

Just in reviewing what you did, I can see that his shock is as complete as it could be.

I recommend for your own sake that you seek professional help if you haven't already.

And then leave him. Let him restart his life without you.

And you start over and only behave ethically from now on.

Get a handle on impulse control and inhibit any future any irrational, destructive behavior.


----------



## terrence4159

i say divorce him some men just cant forgive the ultimate betrayal. the more you pressure him to have sex the more he is going to trigger. every time you get naked and try and seduce him all he sees is you and stud boy banging...............and......................IN YOUR HOUSE!!

your brought the kid to your HOUSE to bang him. the ULTIMATE act of disrespect! wow what were you thinking bringing the guy to YOUR HOUSE????? some men just dont want another mans seconds and you husband seems that way.

it is clear he is staying with you till the kids leave the house then he will leave you...so either divorce him now or wait till he divorces you.


----------



## MattMatt

Yeah. I know how your husband feels.

invite him here, hopefully we can help him.

Has he any sexual release? Or not?


----------



## Thound

Maybe he has someone else.


----------



## MovingAhead

No-redemption said:


> You don't think I don't know that? You think I have not said any of this to my H?
> 
> Yes, I have. All of it. With all its gory details.
> 
> What do you think I tell him when I cry my eyes out in front of him? I have never blamed him. I fully admit my fallibility in this and how I willing brought back the past to destroy my present and my future.


I think you literally just tried to downplay your bad choices here to people who have seen this a thousand times with the lamest excuse I have ever heard to date... You cheated because you wanted to plain and simple.

Once you try to stop excusing your bad behavior and stop focusing on you you you then you will come to the conclusion that you don't matter in this.

You go fix what you broke if you can. You take care of the mess you created and when you do that, you will find that in healing those things that you will in turn heal yourself.

There are no unicorns here farting magical pixie dust. The fact is it is hard and not very rewarding work and if done right and honestly is very worthwhile.

If you think I was calling you out for your BS, you were right. Don't BS people here. You broke the marriage. You need to do the heavy lifting and the ending may not turn out best for you but that is not what is important here. You want your happiness. Go earn it by helping your husband heal or letting him go.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

No-redemption said:


> Let me first give the reason for the affair and who it was with. As I said it is very weird and warped....
> 
> My affair was with one of my young employee. He was 23 at the time. I was 36. This guy had a gf.
> 
> But the main reason that attracted me to this guy (or boy) was not because he was a young stud but because his gf looking eerily similar to one of my college mate. This college mate had a boyfriend who I had a crush on. And this girl somehow found that. After that she made it a mission in her life to make me jealous. She would constantly cuddle with her boyfriend, gush about him, hold him, hug him, all in front of me. Needless to say I was miserable. Miserable about an unrequited love. I cried myself to bed every night. Kept his pictures, talked to the picture (pathetic me). Just because of this crush, I went through my college life without any relationship.
> 
> I don't want to embarass myself with more details.
> 
> Years later I start my own HR consulting business and sometime later hire this young guy. No feelings in the beginning, both from our side. But it all changed when one day in one social gathering this guy brings his GF. I was dumbstruck. Memories came flooding back of my college days. Next day onward I start to pry about the boy's gf. Started by flirty question like "you two look cute", "you are lucky", "what draws you to her"....
> 
> The more he answered about his GF the more it felt like this girl was exactly like my college mate. I now understand, in my then mental state I was projecting when these were too different people. You guys are now getting the drift....
> 
> I get jealous. Again become the hopeless pursuer. But this time because of my mature age and a confident business woman, I deal with this in a more tactful way. I got determined that I will have this boy to myself. And soon what follows is typical affair script.
> 
> The affair went for 8 months before my husband found out.
> 
> When I think back now, its so disgusting how I acted....


OP:

What you did, and for the reasons you did it, is about as clear a statement of your values and your inability to love (anyone) as any man could hope for. You could not have sent him a clearer message if you had tattooed on your forehead “NOT MARRIAGE MATERIAL” while you were dating him. 
But now he is in the wrong, by remaining married to you.


----------



## IIJokerII

MarriedDude said:


> If I offended, I do apologize. Not my intent at all. By projecting -I mean projecting their anger and feelings of betrayal onto her husband...believing that we know what is going through this mans mind is presumptuous.
> 
> Believing that all BS's have identical feelings and motivations- also presumptuous. Similarities, of course....but not always.
> 
> Attacking or otherwise slamming and shaming the WS's that come here -helps no one. Not the WS, not the BS, not even the other posters. Just my humble opinion. I don't have thousands of posts here, tons of background on this site. It would seem, in my limited experience, that help can only be given to those that ask for it. Knowledge can only be given to us by those that feel safe enough to share it.
> 
> That was all I meant by project....I wasn't discounting anyone's potential contributions. Merely hoping that she will come back, provide background and get some help- she seemed sincere in her desire to repair the damage that was inflicted.


 Vel is just telling it like it is dude. All the chumps that come here, men or women, will have a different background to their plight yet experience the same array of feelings, most if not all. I commend her for coming here but it is kind of a lot to ask the "Victims" for their support whilst being a perpetrator of the very same crime that led us here to begin with. 

For her to stay married 3 and a half more years without even a drop of effort or affection from her husband shows more of someone making a dumb ass decision vs a malicious one. Usually the animosity from the people here is to root out her true intentions. Time will tell.


----------



## G.J.

Just do what he wants and respect his wish's if your capable

If he doesnt want you as a wife and just a room mate then its his choice as you have caused the situation

If your not happy divorce him, as you my girl are dead to him as a wife

And next time try to keep your knickers on and dont destroy another faithful husband


----------



## altawa

No-redemption said:


> You don't think I don't know that? You think I have not said any of this to my H?
> 
> Yes, I have. All of it. With all its gory details.
> 
> What do you think I tell him when I cry my eyes out in front of him? I have never blamed him. I fully admit my fallibility in this and how* I willing brought back the past to destroy my present and my future.*


Mission Accomplished. 


chillymorn said:


> will I forever pay this price? YES
> 
> and so will he.
> 
> even if he comes around to having sex it will always be in the background.
> 
> 3.5yrs sounds like hes staying for the kid. a strong take it on the chin kind of guy who wants to see his child grow and sees his responsibility of a provider for his family as a priority no matter what.
> 
> If you really loved him you would file for divorce and *walk away with nothing but your clothing*. this is what your teaching your child a marriage is suppose to be like be we all know this is very very far from what a marriage is suppose to be.


FTFY.

Yes. You will pay for this forever, no matter the outcome here. And yes, you have probably permanently broken him too.

Good job.


----------



## Dogbert

Thound said:


> Maybe he has someone else.


You know, that is a possibility. Many BS do end up having RA and this just might the case here.


----------



## ConanHub

OP. You need more than drugs. You need counseling to get to what bad character traits allowed you to flush your family with such amazing disregard. Then work very hard to change.

Your H is done with you and I can't blame him. If you want to continue as is, fine, if not, fine. Work on yourself regardless.

You need to become a healthy woman for yourself and your children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bryanp

I just want to make sure I read this correctly.

There were times that you took your lover to your home and had sex in your marital bed. If this is correct then this is the absolute ultimate in degradation, humiliation and disrespect to your husband. I am guessing that you probably did not use protection and therefore put his health at risk for STD's as well.

I am sure that your husband has mind movies believing that surely there had to be times that he was with you intimately shortly after you had been intimate with your lover.

Your excuse is the worst I have ever heard. If the roles were reversed what would you be thinking?


----------



## Ripper

Yeah, that guy is done.

He's in it now for the kids and to possibly avoid a financial beating in a divorce. The fact he has told OP exactly what he thinks about sexual relations with her and his building of a separate bedroom tells the story. This is the status quo until at least the kids fly the nest.


----------



## Broken at 20

Sometimes, we have to pay a price we aren't willing to pay. But we don't get to undo the decisions. Life is not a video game where we can reload a previous game where our life isn't F-ed up. 

Neither of my parents will ever love me again. And I will be disowned by my entire family when I'm 24. That was because of my decisions. VERY poor decisions and choices. 

I can't reload my life. I have to go forward. Which means accepting the fact I can't have my family. 
You need to accept the fact you may never have your husband and marriage again. 

It is a very hard and unpleasant realization to come to. 
You can't change it. You have to go forward knowing it, and deal with it.


----------



## arbitrator

*No-redemption: You have received some very good, but at the same time, some very heart-wrenching advise here. Most of these posters are my dear friends, and like me, they too are victims of adultery.

In my case, if you ever have time to read it, I was extremely bitter about it when I came to TAM back in 2012. I must admit that I oftentimes am jaded toward her for what she did to me and our family, and you can no doubt sense that in my writing!

But as the Bible tells us, we must come to forgive, because without forgiving others, how can we come to forgive ourselves? I have summarily forgiven my rich, skanky XW for what she has put me through. But, unlike our Heavenly Father, and being a fallible human, I certainly can never quite forget because as that fallible human that I am, I greatly subscribe to the mantra of "those who fail to remember the past are doomed to repeat it in the future!"

But there is one very noteable and defining difference between you and her: I truly sense your genuine remorse for what you did! I still can't quite understand your full rationale for why you did it, but I sense the plethora of regrets that your heart so seemingly shows!

I truly think that you have prayed and asked God for His forgiveness and strength in confessing to your H. I know that you've had to have done that, because no guilty person has the arbitrary internal strength to stand alone in the lion's den before the offended when a confession is made. I truly believe that you've told him every shaming detail of what you did, although I do seem to sense that your H didn't really want to hear anything else about it! In any event, you asked him to forgive you, which I feel that he did not do, because of the sheer numbness of his hurt! 

He was so badly hurt, that he summarily closed any and all doors to you in every conceivable way: He will not remotely offer to reconcile, he will not go to counselling either with your on his own, and he prefers the dankness and comfort that his self-imposed isolation brings to him. He's been through hell ~ and just greatly chooses to dig himself in deeper and deeper with little to no regard for you or the rest of the family.

You now have the unenviable task of deciding that you want to continue living in this shell of a life that you now occupy. Without his cooperation in any possible R, willful participation in either MC or IC, the ability to realize what he has and is doing to himself is both physically and psychologically debiliatating, and with him so badly hurt that he can't quite find it within himself to go to God in seeking the counsel and solace, that he so needs in a time like this. So you may very well need to take it upon yourself to file for divorce all on your own.

You more than deserve a fresh start in life, after some internal soul-searching, greatly keeping in mind that your primary focus should be on the welfare of your kids first, and then on yourself. If you have not been close to God in all these years, make that a priority because if you have truly asked His forgiveness, you are now totally pure in His eyes!

While I certainly do not condone what you have done, I do commend you for your courage to confess and to ask both your H and God for their forgiveness. And Biblically speaking, if you have done that with a sincere and a contrite heart, is all that really counts!

I neither condone nor condemn you, but greatly just want to see you go into the light of love rather than into the continual abyss of shame!

God bless you, my dear!*


----------



## MattMatt

altawa said:


> Mission Accomplished.
> 
> FTFY.
> 
> Yes. You will pay for this forever, no matter the outcome here. And yes, you have probably permanently broken him too.
> 
> Good job.


And we learn that sarcasm rarely helps, especially when belabouring a point that is already well known.

She know she messed up. Really. She gets that.


----------



## altawa

MattMatt said:


> And we learn that sarcasm rarely helps, especially when belabouring a point that is already well known.
> 
> She know she messed up. Really. She gets that.


Sarcastic or not, I mean every word of it. If she doesn't want to see comments, maybe she shouldnt have posted. She destroyed another human that she was supposed to love, honor, and cherish. I am not going to mince words regarding my opinion about that.


----------



## arbitrator

*"Let he that is without sin, cast the first stone!"*


----------



## Daniel.

It wasn't even the guy that got you hooked it was your jealousy of his gf who looked like your college friend. So, was it a silent f**k you, some sort of revenge to your old friend but you did it by hurting this innocent girl who happened to look like her although she didn't even know you or did something bad to you? WTF ?? It's straight out of middle school



bryanp said:


> I just want to make sure I read this correctly.
> 
> There were times that you took your lover to your home and had sex in your marital bed. If this is correct then this is the absolute ultimate in degradation, humiliation and disrespect to your husband. I am guessing that you probably did not use protection and therefore put his health at risk for STD's as well.
> 
> I am sure that your husband has mind movies believing that surely there had to be times that he was with you intimately shortly after you had been intimate with your lover.
> 
> Your excuse is the worst I have ever heard. If the roles were reversed what would you be thinking?


Exactly this, if my wife ever brought someone to our marital bed i'd be done without looking back. So long, fvck you very much. 

It's one thing to cheat, it's another to do it so flagrantly. OP just put the humiliation and violation to her husband and the young gf who look like her enemy in college to a whole new degree, just for the thrill and silent revenge to someone who probably doesn't remember her . It was a thrill to deceive to her husband and used his trust against him to debase him, excited to be near caught. Did you change the sheet at least so your husband wouldn't sleep on your toyboy's sweat covered sheet ? 

3.5 years and nothing, i think this guy is done. He has no respect for you


----------



## altawa

arbitrator said:


> *"Let he that is without sin, cast the first stone!"*


Is this supposed to be some 'holier than thou' attempt to shut down anybody that would dare speak against OP's sh!tty actions? Because I can assure you it wont work with me. I'm not a cheater, I refuse to treat them with kid gloves and coddle them when they destroy other people's lives.

In the words of Frank Castle : " God's gonna sit this one out".


----------



## arbitrator

Daniel. said:


> It wasn't even the guy that got you hooked it was your jealousy of his gf who looked like your college friend. So, was it a silent f**k you, some sort of revenge to your old friend but you did it by hurting this innocent girl who happened to look like her although she didn't even know you or did something bad to you? WTF ?? It's straight out of middle school
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly this, if my wife ever brought someone to our marital bed i'd be done without looking back. So long, fvck you very much.
> 
> It's one thing to cheat, it's another to do it so flagrantly. OP just put the humiliation and violation to her husband and the young gf who look like her enemy in college the a whole new degree, just for the thrill and silent revenge . It was a thrill to deceive to her husband and used his trust against him to debase him, excited to be near caught. Did you change the sheet at least so your husband wouldn't sleep on your toyboy's sweat covered sheet ?
> 
> 3.5 years and nothing, i think this guy is done. He has no respect for you


*That's why I advocated that D is going to be the only viable option ~ her H flatly refuses to address the issue; Hell, he's way too hurt! I'd probably be the very same way!

But divorce or not, he too, is going to have to face reality instead of occupying the same old cloistered hellhole that he's largely chosen to pull in around himself!*


----------



## ConanHub

altawa said:


> Is this supposed to be some 'holier than thou' attempt to shut down anybody that would dare speak against OP's sh!tty actions? Because I can assure you it wont work with me. I'm not a cheater, I refuse to treat them with kid gloves and coddle them when they destroy other people's lives.
> 
> In the words of Frank Castle : " God's gonna sit this one out".


It's ok dude. That's just his style. You've got yours and I've got mine. If you think you're being helpful, more power to you. arb is trying to be helpful in his own way, me too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## arbitrator

altawa said:


> Is this supposed to be some 'holier than thou' attempt to shut down anybody that would dare speak against OP's sh!tty actions? Because I can assure you it wont work with me. I'm not a cheater, I refuse to treat them with kid gloves and coddle them when they destroy other people's lives.
> 
> In the words of Frank Castle : " God's gonna sit this one out".


*John 8:7 resoundingly begs to differ with Mr.Castle.*


----------



## VFW

First I am sorry for your pain, regardless if some of it may be self inflicted. Secondly, you have made great strides in accepting your transgressions and attempting to fix your marriage. 

However, the relationship you describe as your marriage, is a tough way to live for the rest of your life. Some people quickly forgive affairs and reconcile, while others never do. There is no magic pill you can take, no class you can go to, this is a decision that only your husband can make. You have to understand that he may never want a physical relationship again. Only you can decide when enough is enough. Based on your post I recommend the following.

1. Consult with an attorney, not to file, but to determine your rights. 
2. Take a long walk by yourself and practice in your mind what you want to say.
3. Have a serious discussion with your husband that you are ready to move forward with or without him. Try to get him to engage with you, to see what if anything you can do to help him to agree to counseling. 
4. If he refuses, agree on an exit strategy and implement. 

I know that you love him and want to fix this problem, but your actions do not qualify as a life sentence, he has to either decide to forgive or move on. Best wishes to you and your family.


----------



## MattMatt

altawa said:


> Is this supposed to be some 'holier than thou' attempt to shut down anybody that would dare speak against OP's sh!tty actions? Because I can assure you it wont work with me. I'm not a cheater, I refuse to treat them with kid gloves and coddle them when they destroy other people's lives.
> 
> In the words of Frank Castle : " God's gonna sit this one out".


Calm down. Please. 

There are ways of putting our points over without standing in the stirrups of our high horse, shouting at people.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thundarr

altawa said:


> Is this supposed to be some 'holier than thou' attempt to shut down anybody that would dare speak against OP's sh!tty actions? Because I can assure you it wont work with me. I'm not a cheater, I refuse to treat them with kid gloves and coddle them when they destroy other people's lives.
> 
> In the words of Frank Castle : " God's gonna sit this one out".


haha. Those darned WSs are actually cyborgs from outerspace and not humans at all. Oddly enough some cheaters repeat their mistakes (choices) and some dont.


----------



## altawa

MattMatt said:


> Calm down. Please.
> 
> There are ways of putting our points over without standing in the stirrups of our high horse, shouting at people.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


First, I am not shouting....

Second, dont worry about what I post or how I post it. Like I said, I am not going to coddle or handle her with kid gloves. Everything I said was point blank honest. Such is the real world.

My statements stand.


----------



## altawa

Thundarr said:


> haha. Those darned WSs are actually cyborgs from outerspace and not humans at all. Oddly enough some cheaters repeat their mistakes (choices) and some dont.


And this has what to do with my statement?


----------



## Dogbert

It is not just her husband's trust that has been violated but the family home and possibly the marital bed as well. It is another trigger. That would explain why OP's husband has refused to sleep with her in their marital bed and instead has chosen a new room to rest in and sleep. It may take leaving their home for a another, for OP's husband to stop triggering.


----------



## Thundarr

altawa said:


> Is this supposed to be some 'holier than thou' attempt to shut down anybody that would dare speak against OP's sh!tty actions? Because I can assure you it wont work with me. I'm not a cheater, I refuse to treat them with kid gloves and coddle them when they destroy other people's lives.
> 
> In the words of Frank Castle : " God's gonna sit this one out".
> 
> 
> 
> Thundarr said:
> 
> 
> 
> haha. Those darned WSs are actually cyborgs from outerspace and not humans at all. Oddly enough some cheaters repeat their mistakes (choices) and some dont.
> 
> 
> 
> altawa said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this has what to do with my statement?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

OP is a person asking for advice yet you see her as a label (cheater) rather than a person who made horrible choices. That's kind of your whole message on this thread is that cheaters are inhuman scum unworthy of help even when they're asking for advice about how to change or fix things.

In addition you seem to think cheaters have a super human ability to destroy lives. I'm sorry but you're giving some cheater out there too much power over you life. When my ex cheated and I divorced her I can definitively say that she didn't have the power to destroy my life because her I am re-married to a wonderful woman and happy.


----------



## KingwoodKev

altawa said:


> Is this supposed to be some 'holier than thou' attempt to shut down anybody that would dare speak against OP's sh!tty actions? Because I can assure you it wont work with me. I'm not a cheater, I refuse to treat them with kid gloves and coddle them when they destroy other people's lives.
> 
> In the words of Frank Castle : " God's gonna sit this one out".


Everyone who brings religion into the argument always does it to make excuses. Even murderers will say they've repented and God has forgiven them. My question is always how do you know? What if he hasn't?


----------



## farsidejunky

KingwoodKev said:


> Everyone who brings religion into the argument always does it to make excuses. Even murderers will say they've repented and God has forgiven them. My question is always how do you know? What if he hasn't?


Everyone? Always?

Generalize much?


----------



## KingwoodKev

farsidejunky said:


> Everyone? Always?
> 
> Generalize much?


I guess in response I'd say show me a thread where somebody used religion in their argument and not to make excuses and I'll re-scope my statement.

Plus, let's decide on the official forum religion so we know which set of silly rules we're all supposed to live by. I hope it isn't Islam for WS's sake. Under Sharia law they kill adulterers.


----------



## Augusto

Why is it that 90% of situations these like this end up the same where the man is silently engaged in an affair of his own?.....signs are there....sleeps in another room, no sex with current spouse for 3+ years, doesn't talk about it, and is just a dad and that is it.
To be honest I very well could see myself in that place if my spouse married me knowing I was always the next best. F|_|CK that!!! Now having added the affair on top of that....lets just say he feels even worse about himself and how his wife has viewed him during their marriage as just good enough. An affair is one thing but wanting someone else from the beginning is like crunching concrete. He built a marriage under false pretenses and never knew it. Everything he believed in it went up in flames as it was never what it seemed. Both of them may not be able to rebuild. She may want his body but that may be it if she still loves another which she obviously does. He will never believe her no matter what she says. She did it for many years. He will never be the same. I wish them luck and the best but this might be too damaged. A marriage counselor is needed badly here but it will take years of it. They may not be able to endure it as he now has a mental problem created by her mental problem that has cracked the foundation.


----------



## Rugs

I think you and your husband should both grow up and get a divorce. If he can't file, you file. 

Why all the self torture. 

I knew the minute I discovered my husband had cheated on me, he would never touch me again. The one person who above anyone else, promised to have my back, cheated on me. No way. 

I looked at him as a sick person who could lie to me for years. A dirty person who I'm quite certain didn't use protection. I'd of rather licked a toilet than have my husband touch me. 

So there's the distrust thing. Can't really top that level.
Then, there's the dirty person who had some other man's yucky spoogy all over her. 
Third, in your house. The absolute lowest place to screw your lover.

I would never have sex with you again either. He told you his terms so if they're not agreeable, you should seperate and divorce. 

I think you would both be happier in the long run. It's a dead marriage.


----------



## KingwoodKev

Rugs said:


> I think you and your husband should both grow up and get a divorce. If he can't file, you file.
> 
> Why all the self torture.
> 
> I knew the minute I discovered my husband had cheated on me, he would never touch me again. The one person who above anyone else, promised to have my back, cheated on me. No way.
> 
> I looked at his as a sick person who could lie to me for years. A dirty person who I'm quite certain didn't use protection. I'd of rather licked a toilet than have my husband touch me.
> 
> So there's the distrust thing. Can't really top that level.
> Then, there's the dirty person who had some other man's yucky spoogy all over her.
> Third, in your house. The absolute lowest place to screw your lover.
> 
> I would never have sex with you again either. He told you his terms so if they're not agreeable, you should seperate and divorce.
> 
> I think you would both be happier in the long run. It's a dead marriage.



A woman of real values. Kudos to you! I hope you find happiness again.


----------



## arbitrator

KingwoodKev said:


> Everyone who brings religion into the argument always does it to make excuses. Even murderers will say they've repented and God has forgiven them. My question is always how do you know? What if he hasn't?


*Kev: Not everyone who brings religion into any argument does not do it to make excuses ~ far from it! And the fact that someone wants to invoke religion does not necessarily make them weak, inferior, or in any way make them out to be a loser in any argumentative dialogue/forum ~ far from it! The point that I was trying to make was simply that if a person comes to God in prayer with a sincere and contrite heart, is all that really matters! What goes on in that prayer session is strictly between that person and God, and nobody else! God will be the sole judge of that person's heartfelt sincerety and contrition, and nobody else!

Just as you might come to pray, that "business" is strictly between the two of you and no other person! I can only hope and pray that that's what happened to her!

When I was in the midst of my own separation/divorce situation and uncovered all of the blatent deception and the sordid details of my rich, skanky XW's willful and unremoresful affairs, I was totally crushed ~ still am! I, like the rest of you, was caught off guard and figuratively stabbed in the solar plexus. I was forgiving no one, more especially her! But the hurt continued more and more as time passed by. There was no contrition or remorse on my XW's part ~ just continued acts of deception.

I then was visiting with my pastor when he was counselling with me asking me if I had forgiven my XW yet, to which I told him "No!" His reply was simply,"If you can't find it in your heart to offer her forgiveness for her transgressions against you, then how can you expect God to forgive you of your transgressions against him?" So I prayed a prayer to that effect and my conscience became clear. I felt so much better than I had felt in months.

Now while I have summarily forgiven my XW for what she did, I cannot in any way forget. And while I have never gotten as much as an apology or a request for forgiveness by her, even to this date, I do hope that she has made peace with God about it!

I do know that while I continue to often make snide and disingenuous remarks about my XW, more especially about her sordid actions, that in time, when she begs my personal forgiveness for hers, that I, in turn, will have to ask for hers for any of mine made toward her!

God didn't make me perfect; He didn't make my XW perfect; He didn't make any of us perfect! He placed us all in an imperfect world! But in doing that, He made us to love and respect one another, hopefully passing along our ever finite sense of love and understanding to our fellow man, just as God attempts to pass along his infinite love to all that He created and loves!*


----------



## KingwoodKev

arbitrator said:


> *Kev: Not everyone who brings religion into any argument does not do it to make excuses ~ far from it! And the fact that someone wants to invoke rligion does not make them weak or in any way make them out to be a loser in argumentative dialogue ~ far from it! The point that I was trying to make was simply that if a person comes to God in prayer with a sincere and contrite heart, is all that really matters! What goes on in that prayer session is strictly between that person and God, and nobody else! God will be the sole judge of that person's heartfelt sincerety and contrition, and nobody else!
> 
> Just as you might come to pray, that "business" is strictly between the two of you and no other person! I can only hope and pray that that's what happened to her!
> 
> When I weas in the midst of my situation and uncovered the blatent deception and the sordid details of my rich, skanky XW's willful and unremoresful affairs, I was totally crushed ~ still am! I, like the rest of you, was caught off guard and figuratively stabbed in the solar plexus. I was forgiving no one, more especially her! But the hurt continued more and more as time passed by. There was no contrition or remorse on my XW's part ~ just continued acts of deception.
> 
> I then was visiting with my pastor when he was counselling with me asking me if I had forgiven my XW yet, to which I told him "No!" His reply was simply,"If you can't find it in your heart to offer her forgiveness for her transgressions against you, then how can you expect God to forgive you of your transgressions against him?" So I prayed a prayer to that effect and my conscience became clear. I felt so much better than I had felt in months.
> 
> Now while I have summarily forgiven my XW for what she did, I cannot in any way forget. And while I have never gotten as much as an apology or a request for forgiveness by her, even to this date, I do hope that she has made peace with God about it!
> 
> I do know that while I continue to often make snide and disingenuous remarks about my XW, more especially about her sordid actions, that in time, when she begs my personal forgiveness for hers, that I, in turn, will have to ask for hers for any of mine made toward her!
> 
> God didn't make me perfect; He didn't make my XW perfect; He didn't make any of us perfect! He placed us all in an imperfect world! But in doing that, He made us to love and respect one another, hopefully passing along our ever finite sense of love and understanding to our fellow man, just as God attempts to pass along his infinite love to all that He created and loves!*


The courts disagree, as do juries. They judge people all the time.


----------



## 2ntnuf

I don't think I missed where someone noted this, but I may have. I thought she described how she wanted this young man, not because he looked like her college crush, but because his girlfriend acted in an overly loving(wrong words) manner, covering him with hugs and kisses and sweet words in front of her, which is what the girl in college did. 

It seemed like it was a revenge affair type thing against the woman from college, years earlier, whom only OP knew. She likely messed up the love life of the two who were deeply in lust or love and then let him go. She never even wrote that she thought of her husband once, only that she basically had to have this guy, who it sounds like she really didn't want. Seems so childish to me, but hurt and resentment can hold on forever, or until we each find our brand of release. 

I wish you could see that is the case with your husband, as well. It's important for you to understand, and it's very telling of your ability for empathy. 

Keep getting the help for yourself. When you find that empathy, your husband will see it. You don't have to ask folks what it looks like. He will know you are faking. Sounds like you have till the children leave, or until he discovers your subsequent affairs. I don't believe you've gone without. Not when I think of how little empathy you have.

You never said what your husband does for a living. Not that I care, but I did wonder what percentage of household income looks like in your home. I don't know if that info will help you, but it could help to understand some of the relationship dynamics.


----------



## convert

OP if you come back, did the OM's girlfriend find out?


----------



## GusPolinski

No-redemption said:


> Hii everyone,
> I am desperately looking for any help. Infact I have looking looking for help in other sites similar to this. I don't if this one will be of any help.
> I should start by saying I am a wife that cheated. Got caught. That was 3.5 years ago. Since then my husband has not had any sex with me. Infact he has not touched me in any way, not even holding my hand since then.
> 
> I have tried talking to him. I have cried night after night in front of him. I have asked to get us help through marriage counselling (he refuses, says no point in wasting money). When the children have not been in the house, I walked naked in front of him in an effort to seduce him(this thing I did not even do in front of my affair partner). I have stated in explicit and dirty words that I want him to do me real bad (his response to such talks has crushed me from inside). Infact I can't think of having left any stone unturned to just get him to bed with me. But he is apparently the proverbial unmoveable object...
> 
> He was not like this. We had an exciting sexual life till the discovery of my affair. He says thats why he feels more inadequate. I assured him he is not, it was only me and my selfish desires that led me to seek another man. Only if he will believe me...
> 
> This gets more difficult due to the fact he and I sleep separately. Since discovery, he asked me to sleep with our daughters. Then he built himself another room where he now sleeps.
> 
> My husband is very attractive. Men of his age start losing hairs, grow bellies, develop various health issues. But he is slender and athletic with thick bushy hairs. And no health issues even when he is a smoker. You would think he was still 33-35. He is one of those rare guys that get handsomer as the years pass by.
> So yes, I am crazy for him physically. Infact if he is to right now walk in the room and ask me to come to bed, I will jump despite how he has rejected me these last 3+ years....
> 
> I am at a loss. I don't know if I will ever experience the sweetness that intimacy brings between couples. I just can't take this anymore...
> 
> There is more to the story which will explain what will give a more clear picture of why my husband finds me so disgusting and why I landed in an affair (there is a very weird reason for that). I will write when I have more time....


Hmm... 3 1/2 years is a long time for anyone to go w/o sex, especially if he's as virile as you've described. How certain are you that he isn't seeing someone else?

My read on him is that he's waiting for your kids to get a bit older before pulling the plug. How old are your children?

Have the two of you discussed divorce at all? How about recently?


----------



## tacoma

Ripper said:


> his building of a separate bedroom tells the story.


I missed that in the OP.

This makes perfect sense and thinking about it is a key clue to what affected him most.

OP, he BUILT ,a new, unstained, personal environment so there would be a place he could go without being constantly reminded of how his own home is a trigger to him.

He's done the exact same thing with his mind and heart, he's built an attitude and personal mental place to hide himself from you.

I really think you're done OP.
If you haven't been able to to tear down the walls he's built in his heart and mind in 3.5 years I don't think you can.

I believe your biggest mistake was having your lover in his bed, in his house.
If you did go into the gory details as far as where and when then you've made his own home a house of horrors for him.

Jesus that's horrifying, I can't believe he's endured it this long.

I believe he is there for his kids and nothing more.
When your kids are of age he'll be leaving most likely.

Don't worry about the divorce, you'll be getting the house.


----------



## Ripper

GusPolinski said:


> Hmm... 3 1/2 years is a long time for anyone to go w/o sex, especially if he's as virile as you've described.


Noticing several posters are leaning towards the husband having an affair. Its possible, but we might be underestimating the massive quantity of porn that now exists. If I had high speed internet when I was a teen, I might have never left my parents house.


----------



## GusPolinski

No-redemption said:


> Let me first give the reason for the affair and who it was with. As I said it is very weird and warped....
> 
> My affair was with one of my young employee. He was 23 at the time. I was 36. This guy had a gf.
> 
> But the main reason that attracted me to this guy (or boy) was not because he was a young stud but because his gf looking eerily similar to one of my college mate. This college mate had a boyfriend who I had a crush on. And this girl somehow found that. After that she made it a mission in her life to make me jealous. She would constantly cuddle with her boyfriend, gush about him, hold him, hug him, all in front of me. Needless to say I was miserable. Miserable about an unrequited love. I cried myself to bed every night. Kept his pictures, talked to the picture (pathetic me). Just because of this crush, I went through my college life without any relationship.
> 
> I don't want to embarass myself with more details.
> 
> Years later I start my own HR consulting business and sometime later hire this young guy. No feelings in the beginning, both from our side. But it all changed when one day in one social gathering this guy brings his GF. I was dumbstruck. Memories came flooding back of my college days. Next day onward I start to pry about the boy's gf. Started by flirty question like "you two look cute", "you are lucky", "what draws you to her"....
> 
> The more he answered about his GF the more it felt like this girl was exactly like my college mate. I now understand, in my then mental state I was projecting when these were too different people. You guys are now getting the drift....
> 
> I get jealous. Again become the hopeless pursuer. But this time because of my mature age and a confident business woman, I deal with this in a more tactful way. I got determined that I will have this boy to myself. And soon what follows is typical affair script.
> 
> The affair went for 8 months before my husband found out.
> 
> When I think back now, its so disgusting how I acted....


OP, w/ respect, whether or not your husband chooses to attend MC w/ you, and whether or not the two of you divorce (which, honestly, I think is *HIGHLY* likely), it's pretty clear that *you should pursue individual therapy/counseling* in order to get to the root of your issues.


----------



## tacoma

Ripper said:


> Noticing several posters are leaning towards the husband having an affair. Its possible, but we might be underestimating the massive quantity of porn that now exists. If I had high speed internet when I was a teen, I might have never left my parents house.


Quite possible, I have a 22 year old in a bedroom on the other side of the house who has never been alone in a room with an actual female.


----------



## GusPolinski

Ripper said:


> Noticing several posters are leaning towards the husband having an affair. Its possible, but we might be underestimating the massive quantity of porn that now exists. If I had high speed internet when I was a teen, I might have never left my parents house.


LOL. Fair enough.


----------



## Dogbert

And to add a ton of salt to the wounds, tomorrow is Saint Valentine's day. The whole day will probably be a huge trigger for both the OP and her BH.


----------



## alphaomega

ok, I have to chime in...

Velocet,
your one angry dude! understandable, my friend, but its very unhealthy. I don't know your story, but it would probably be very sad and cause lots of empathy from me. you need to find a way to heal, friend. Your soul will thank you.

OP,
3.5 years is a LOT of anger in your husband. I get why he's angry, but that's a lot of punishment towards you that may just not end. You messed up, girl, and he's letting you suffer. 

You need to ask yourself if you want to spend another 3.5 years of silent punishment. Your husband may never get over the infidelity, and maybe that's something that you just have to accept. Maybe it's time for you to start the process of ending the marriage, because I think after 3.5 years without your husband ending it, you may need to be the one to have to come to that decision. Your husband is very, very angry at you. It's unhealthy for both of you.

And to all the other Betrayed out there...
The anger is understandable...but it's also destructive to your soul to dwell so much on that feeling...because soon it becomes it's own little creature that you have to continue to feed with anger to keep happy. But that happiness is an illusion. It's time to either divorce, move on, and let go....or start to truly reconcile, move on, and let go ( but of course...always with a watchful eye...so we are not fooled twice..  )

That anger consumed me too. Mindful, my circumstances were a bit different. I was NOT a good husband - being a bit unstable in the head. And it took me time to finally come to terms with that notion and realize I had a part in my wife's infidelity. So maybe, after some self reflection on my part, it was easier for me, in my circumstance, to understand why my wife did what she did....but in the end there was forgiveness...and a release of that anger. My soul is much more healthy for it. And my Ex is a much happier person, too. And that makes me happy, in it's own way.


----------



## No-redemption

For those asking me about a divorce....

I am not ready to tell my husband that I want a divorce. Not when he is so polite and civil with me about the matters of household. From outside no one will know that there is such a huge crater in our marriage.

I am not going to tell the country where I am from, only that I come from a conservative culture. Ours was an arranged marriage. Relatives from both sides matched us. The first day I saw him I fell for his looks. Just like a man out of a Sidney Sheldon novel.

After college I did enter into a relationship. But that failed partly due to my unsatisfaction in my mind. I always compared my then-bf with my college crush. So never really opened up to him. But when I saw my husband to be, I was floored. And more I got to know him before and after marriage, I fell in Love. So yes, I was and am in love with my husband. Those 8 horrendous months won't change that.

I thought I was over my college crush. I really did. I believed that I have met my man of dreams. I used to be a believer that whatever God does, he does it for the best. I believed that me not ending up with my crush was because God destined me ending up with this gorgeous man who is my husband.

But I never realized how broken I was from inside before I saw the gf of my lover.....


----------



## No-redemption

Another reason I am not ready to ask for divorce is our daughters absolutely love their papa. They worship him. He is their hero. I will not see my daughters hurt because I was a horrible mother. 

So if that this the price I have to pay, I will pay for my daughters' happiness.

They are only 7 and 9.


----------



## No-redemption

Those of you asking if my husband is having an affair, I don't think so. He is never late. Never hides his phone. But if he did I would forgive him.

And no, I have not even looked at a man on the street for these 3+ years.


----------



## No-redemption

For some that asked....

My husband is an Income Tax Officer. He is a very high ranking government official.


----------



## No-redemption

Affaircare said:


> No-redemption,
> 
> I speak to you today as someone who was a former Disloyal Spouse, so I have also cheated, and I'm not trying to be mean or responding out of raw triggers from being a Loyal Spouse myself.
> 
> And speaking to you as a former Disloyal Spouse, yes, you will pay the price forever. Even if the two of you were to happily reconcile and save your marriage, it will never be "the way it was" again, because you chose to step outside your marriage. You had the love and trust of a handsome man, and you demolished the love and broke the trust.
> 
> The BEST you can hope for is to rebuild something entirely new and different that is also good for both of you: in other words, it will not be "the way it was" but it might be "a whole new way" and the new way could be more mature, more healthy and very loving. That's THE BEST. But even if you build the best, and I personally think my Dear Hubby and I have rebuilt in the best possible way, you will forever bear the burden of the choice you made, and he will forever bear the scar of the damage you've done. Think of it like losing an arm or leg. Yep you can "go on" after losing an arm, but it's not like the arm grows back. That arm is gone, and so it your marriage "the way it was." You can choose to go on and have a happy life without the arm, and adjust to life with one arm, but it is never the same.
> 
> So #1, your marriage has forever changed. It will never ever be the same. So the wisest thing to do is to stop trying to make it "the way it was."
> 
> #2 I'd suggest starting utterly over again with your husband. I take it from your posts that English is not your first language and/or you do not live in the USA or UK. If that is the case, the way you view a husband is potentially different than the way a woman from the US or UK view a husband. He is likely not only the man you love (like we view it over here) but also the one who provides for you and your children, and the one who keeps the reputation and the one who your family chose for you and thinks would be good for you. Thus, in his mind he may believe he is meeting his obligation to you just by not kicking you out in the street!
> 
> If this is the case, and if this is moreso how you and your extended family see marriage, then I'd suggest that in your mind you start over with your husband. Instead of focusing on getting an orgasm, think of how you can become his best friend. Have you let him talk to you about how he feels? Have you given him a safe place to recover from the wounds your infidelity caused? Have you just had fun with him and enjoyed his company because you LIKE him?
> 
> I would say start there, and start with ending the things you do that hurt him, such as yelling at him, being critical, judging him, etc. Work on yourself so you are not that kind of woman, and at the same time, work on being a friend to him. Yes I realize it's been 3.5 years but you have to start from scratch because whatever you had before, you dropped a bomb on it when you had an affair. All that you had was destroyed and now your job is to take the time and make the effort to rebuild in a warzone that you created.


This was the best response I have read in any site.

The last time I tried initiating any type of body contact with my husband was 2 years ago.

That evening he came home in a very jolly mood. He was chatting about a funny incident. We were all laughing. I was so happy to see him happy. The girls were climbing all over him and he was jostling with them. Our house was an abode of joy that night.
During dinner we were still having laughs. I thought maybe this was the night...

So when girls were asleep I tiptoed into his room. Went up in bed and started to rub his chest. The started kissing his neck. He woke up. He gave me a smile. And he gave me such a loving look. But immediately his face changed and suddenly he spat on my face....

I cannot even describe the bad taste and awfulness that I felt after that....

Since then I dared not initiate any body contact with him. We talk, we stay civil. I never bring up the affair. He doesn't bring it up. We never talk about our feelings since that day.


----------



## Dogbert

I know rejection, especially the kind your husband gave you, is painful but perhaps you should consider writing a journal. In the journal you can express your deepest thoughts and feelings. You can invite your husband to read it anytime he chooses, and write on it as well. Why a journal? Unlike the emotional strain that a face to face talk could create, he can read the journal alone without any pressure from anybody. It's worth considering.


----------



## GusPolinski

No-redemption said:


> This was the best response I have read in any site.
> 
> The last time I tried initiating any type of body contact with my husband was 2 years ago.
> 
> That evening he came home in a very jolly mood. He was chatting about a funny incident. We were all laughing. I was so happy to see him happy. The girls were climbing all over him and he was jostling with them. Our house was an abode of joy that night.
> During dinner we were still having laughs. I thought maybe this was the night...
> 
> So when girls were asleep I tiptoed into his room. Went up in bed and started to rub his chest. The started kissing his neck. He woke up. He gave me a smile. And he gave me such a loving look. *But immediately his face changed and suddenly he spat on my face....*
> 
> I cannot even describe the bad taste and awfulness that I felt after that....
> 
> Since then I dared not initiate any body contact with him. We talk, we stay civil. I never bring up the affair. He doesn't bring it up. We never talk about our feelings since that day.


Damn. That pretty much says it all.

Sorry.


----------



## MattMatt

OK. Here's what I would do. I would do something simple like suddenly kissing his hand. Then apologise and say: "I just wanted to kiss the person who gave me my perfect children." And do nothing else that day. Depending on his reaction work on this over time.

I think it's possible your husband had a breakdown of some kind.

Could you invite him here?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## manticore

I have read cases like yours before, they are not that common but yes, I have read this kind of behaviour from the BS before (for both genders, women and men)

I think your husband have no intention to forgive you, not at least to a subconscious level.

See all the cases I have read like yours have something in common, BSs that are high ranked as a dating choice, people that are good looking, that are loyal and have good income and social postion and know their own worth.

See, I can not imagine something more degrading and emasculating (and hurtful), that hear the OM gigling at you when you call your loved one, is practicaly something like "hahaha fool idiot while you call your wife worried about her, I am fu**ing her, aren't you a fool?" so why I man that can easily find another partner had decided to stay with someone who denigrated him that much?

Sure her daughters are one of the reasons, but is not just that, people like that that, who have lived their lives being worth of admiration ( when they can easily choice the other path and be cheaters, corrupted, manipulative or whatever deviation you may imagine), they to a conscious level take the choice that is more honorable (something like: is it human to fail and everybody deserves a second chance, besides if I seperate from my partner I am gonna hurt my kids).

So what do they do?, they stay with their partner because is the right thing to do,*BUT* they don't really forgive him/her, they know that they have lead their lives honorably so they don't deserve the sh*t sanwich that have been served to them, so what do they do?, they put all the conditions for the wronging side to fail again, they continue to be examplary parents and social figures, but they deny their personal investment to the WS, so then the WS can again look external validation and the BS can finally say "see I give him/her a second chance and still he/she, did it again, sorry but I can to do it anymore".

In resume he has aready decided that he don't want you as his partner, but his morals, and realtionship with her daughters make him feel forced to try it again even if he really does not want it.

Of all the cases I remember, just one woman was able to save her marriage, and she had to endure years of negative behaviour, you can continue to endure it, but nothing garantizes
that the same conclusion would come to you


----------



## Rugs

You think your girls will be happier seeing no affection from their parents. You might regret this when and if they become attracted to emotionally and physically available men. 

I don't think either of you are doing your girls any favors. P
For their sake, consider divorce.


----------



## warlock07

> I walked naked in front of him in an effort to seduce him(this thing I did not even do in front of my affair partner)





> Was suspicious one time talking to me on the phone when he heard my lover giggle. Couldn't find anything on my phone. Skipped office for a week to keep a look on my office and house. Found me taking my lover to our house





> Yes I went to a psychiatrist. After discovery I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep for a long time. Eventually fell ill. The doctor told me to check a psychiatrist and referred one. I went there for a full year. I don't go regularly now but I check in from time to time to review my course of medicines. I do this because as you all see, I am under too much stress.



Why were you so devastated? How long were you cheating before you got caught?


----------



## warlock07

No-redemption said:


> This was the best response I have read in any site.
> 
> The last time I tried initiating any type of body contact with my husband was 2 years ago.
> 
> That evening he came home in a very jolly mood. He was chatting about a funny incident. We were all laughing. I was so happy to see him happy. The girls were climbing all over him and he was jostling with them. Our house was an abode of joy that night.
> During dinner we were still having laughs. I thought maybe this was the night...
> 
> So when girls were asleep I tiptoed into his room. Went up in bed and started to rub his chest. The started kissing his neck. He woke up. He gave me a smile. And he gave me such a loving look. But immediately his face changed and suddenly he spat on my face....
> 
> I cannot even describe the bad taste and awfulness that I felt after that....
> 
> Since then I dared not initiate any body contact with him. We talk, we stay civil. I never bring up the affair. He doesn't bring it up. We never talk about our feelings since that day.


that was pretty bad. He might need some counseling, especially, the quickswitch in the emotions. 

Where you live becomes a bit important here..Pretty pointless hiding the country..

What are you daily interactions like? does he talk and joke with you?


And there was a poster who used to participte here that reacted like your husband on discovering his wife's infidelity. he won't divorce her but absolutely, no intimacy

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/members/bandit.html

Maybe you can see his thought process.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano

KingwoodKev said:


> The courts disagree, as do juries. They judge people all the time.


I think you guys are talking about different levels.

Arbitrator is talking about the inner level and moving on in that way.

Courts are righting it at the outside societal level, trying to bring justice in that realm.

You can do both.


----------



## arbitrator

KingwoodKev said:


> The courts disagree, as do juries. They judge people all the time.


*That venue is where binding legal decisions are summarily made as required by law! Not so in an advisory forum of this nature!

Where I'm coming from is strictly a matter of the heart, and not from some objective legalistic point of view.

And even within that same legal venue, common sense and mercy are often necessary components in the completion of the justice that is summarily rendered there!*


----------



## arbitrator

Affaircare said:


> No-redemption,
> 
> I speak to you today as someone who was a former Disloyal Spouse, so I have also cheated, and I'm not trying to be mean or responding out of raw triggers from being a Loyal Spouse myself.
> 
> And speaking to you as a former Disloyal Spouse, yes, you will pay the price forever. Even if the two of you were to happily reconcile and save your marriage, it will never be "the way it was" again, because you chose to step outside your marriage. You had the love and trust of a handsome man, and you demolished the love and broke the trust.
> 
> The BEST you can hope for is to rebuild something entirely new and different that is also good for both of you: in other words, it will not be "the way it was" but it might be "a whole new way" and the new way could be more mature, more healthy and very loving. That's THE BEST. But even if you build the best, and I personally think my Dear Hubby and I have rebuilt in the best possible way, you will forever bear the burden of the choice you made, and he will forever bear the scar of the damage you've done. Think of it like losing an arm or leg. Yep you can "go on" after losing an arm, but it's not like the arm grows back. That arm is gone, and so it your marriage "the way it was." You can choose to go on and have a happy life without the arm, and adjust to life with one arm, but it is never the same.
> 
> So #1, your marriage has forever changed. It will never ever be the same. So the wisest thing to do is to stop trying to make it "the way it was."
> 
> #2 I'd suggest starting utterly over again with your husband. I take it from your posts that English is not your first language and/or you do not live in the USA or UK. If that is the case, the way you view a husband is potentially different than the way a woman from the US or UK view a husband. He is likely not only the man you love (like we view it over here) but also the one who provides for you and your children, and the one who keeps the reputation and the one who your family chose for you and thinks would be good for you. Thus, in his mind he may believe he is meeting his obligation to you just by not kicking you out in the street!
> 
> If this is the case, and if this is moreso how you and your extended family see marriage, then I'd suggest that in your mind you start over with your husband. Instead of focusing on getting an orgasm, think of how you can become his best friend. Have you let him talk to you about how he feels? Have you given him a safe place to recover from the wounds your infidelity caused? Have you just had fun with him and enjoyed his company because you LIKE him?
> 
> I would say start there, and start with ending the things you do that hurt him, such as yelling at him, being critical, judging him, etc. Work on yourself so you are not that kind of woman, and at the same time, work on being a friend to him. Yes I realize it's been 3.5 years but you have to start from scratch because whatever you had before, you dropped a bomb on it when you had an affair. All that you had was destroyed and now your job is to take the time and make the effort to rebuild in a warzone that you created.


*No-Redemption: IMHO, this post by Affaircare offers the best roadmap to try to get where it is that you want to go with your distraught and emotionally traumatized H. But just as you took the blame and ownership of your atrocities committed against him, your H, sooner or later, must take ownership for his emotional problems, not so much from the perspective of forgiving you, but greatly from the perspective of allowing himself to emotionally heal.

Provided he can come to grips and do that, then there is hope as suggested by my dear friend, Affaircare. Barring that he cannot, then as so many of us here have so demonstratively pointed out, D will be your only viable option!

In any event, I wish you only the very best and will continue to be in prayer for you, your H, and your family!*


----------



## Graywolf2

No-redemption said:


> I believed that me not ending up with my crush was because God destined me ending up with this gorgeous man who is my husband.
> And no, I have not even looked at a man on the street for these 3+ years.


Affaircare’s post was outstanding. I could only add a few things. Find a quiet time to tell your husband the above. 

Also tell him that no matter what he does you will be a faithful wife for the rest or your life so he doesn’t have to worry about you disrespecting him or your family again. Don’t let him walk over you but let the small day to day irritating things go. 

Don’t initiate sex again but make it very clear that you would be happy to oblige anytime he wanted. Be well groomed at home. Look attractive for him but don’t look cheap. 

He’s a high government official so make him proud to be your husband in public. You want people to tell him what a wonderful wife he has.

If you haven’t already done so make it clear that you were not after the OM. You were in a competition with your old college friend and all you cared about was beating her.


----------



## Forest

After a wife cheats, IMO, most husbands that choose to stay do so with the following priorities:

1. Children
2. Finances
3. Hesitance to start over
4. Feelings for wife.

Just so your know your current place on the totem pole. 

My only suggestions are to apologize like crazy, be sincere, and continually ask him if you can do anything to help him.


----------



## No-redemption

Dogbert said:


> I know rejection, especially the kind your husband gave you, is painful but perhaps you should consider writing a journal. In the journal you can express your deepest thoughts and feelings. You can invite your husband to read it anytime he chooses, and write on it as well. Why a journal? Unlike the emotional strain that a face to face talk could create, he can read the journal alone without any pressure from anybody. It's worth considering.


I like this idea of writing a journal. This hasn't come to me before. Maybe I can write him a letter and put my thoughts in there. But I wouldn't even know where to start. Its been 2 years since he and I have spoken about the affair. Our talks only revolve on our day to day lives, our children and maybe sometimes about our workplaces. I do not brink up my workplace much because I know he can get angry about that. 

So if any of you can give me a headstart about what to write I can get some ideas. Before I do this, I need to gather all my thoughts in one place and put it right. I don't want to make another mistake and close down another channel of communication.


----------



## No-redemption

MattMatt said:


> OK. Here's what I would do. I would do something simple like suddenly kissing his hand. Then apologise and say: "I just wanted to kiss the person who gave me my perfect children." And do nothing else that day. Depending on his reaction work on this over time.
> 
> I think it's possible your husband had a breakdown of some kind.
> 
> Could you invite him here?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think what you said is very sweet but as you can understand I have some reservation about that.

And how do I mention him this site when we have this unwritten rule "Dont talk about the affair" ?


----------



## DadOfFour

G.J. said:


> Just do what he wants and respect his wish's if your capable
> 
> If he doesnt want you as a wife and just a room mate then its his choice as you have caused the situation
> 
> If your not happy divorce him, as you my girl are dead to him as a wife
> 
> And next time try to keep your knickers on and dont destroy another faithful husband


:iagree:
I think they call it "reaping ones whirlwind"


----------



## farsidejunky

By unwritten rule do you mean actually agreed upon, or inferred?

Here is the thing. You're either
content in your current situation, or you're not. People were bringing up divorce to you because nobody deserves to live in the situation in which you are currently living. 

So you have to decide if this is ok for you. If it's not, you must be willing to do whatever it takes to fix the situation. And that means you must be willing to risk the marriage in order to fix the marriage. If it is ok, why are you here complaining about it when you're not willing to do what it takes to fix the situation?

So you're going to have to come to grips with that fact; you're not sufficiently uncomfortable enough in your current situation to do anything about it, or you are.

When you're actually ready to do whatever it takes to fix the situation, you will be willing to risk your marriage in order to save it.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Why don't you just ask your husband what kind of marriage he wants? Tell him that if he just wants a roommate you'll respect that and never get naked in front of him or come onto him again. If you're bent on not divorcing him why not? Tell him you know you f'd up and you accept that so now you want him to decide what kind of marriage he wants with you.

I personally think it's sad to live this way but at least it would be honest. Too bad, your kids will grow up thinking this is normal and possibly have their own marriages like this.


----------



## No-redemption

farsidejunky said:


> So you have to decide if this is ok for you. If it's not, you must be willing to do whatever it takes to fix the situation. And that means you must be willing to risk the marriage in order to fix the marriage. If it is ok, why are you here complaining about it when you're not willing to do what it takes to fix the situation?


No, I am certainly not content with my situation. I want it to change. I want it to be loving and passionate between us. I want him to want me just like he used to. And I'm more than willing to be a freak in the bedroom for my husband.

That doesn't mean I would just walk up to my husband and say "Hey, f*** me or I'm divorcing you". That type of threat will very well prompt him to do just divorce me.

There must be other ways. And I have seen some people really give some good ideas without throwing divorce in between.


----------



## farsidejunky

No-redemption said:


> No, I am certainly not content with my situation. I want it to change. I want it to be loving and passionate between us. I want him to want me just like he used to. And I'm more than willing to be a freak in the bedroom for my husband.
> 
> That doesn't mean I would just walk up to my husband and say "Hey, f*** me or I'm divorcing you". That type of threat will very well prompt him to do just divorce me.
> 
> There must be other ways. And I have seen some people really give some good ideas without throwing divorce in between.


You misread what I am telling you to do. If I were him and you came to me that way, I would pack a bag for you. What I am saying is you must be willing to exhaust every option up to that point.

You also have to determine what you are unwilling to live with. If you do everything that you can to reignite your relationship, wirh zero change, and you choose to remain, you're still not sufficiently uncomfortable enough.

I emphatically agree with the poster who said you need to ask your husband what type of marriage he wants. That will tell you right there whether or not there is any hope. 

Then communicate to him the type of marriage that you want. Tell him you're willing to do whatever it takes to earn that marriage with him. But also communicate to him that you cannot do it alone.


----------



## MovingAhead

No-redemption said:


> This was the best response I have read in any site.
> 
> The last time I tried initiating any type of body contact with my husband was 2 years ago.
> 
> That evening he came home in a very jolly mood. He was chatting about a funny incident. We were all laughing. I was so happy to see him happy. The girls were climbing all over him and he was jostling with them. Our house was an abode of joy that night.
> During dinner we were still having laughs. I thought maybe this was the night...
> 
> So when girls were asleep I tiptoed into his room. Went up in bed and started to rub his chest. The started kissing his neck. He woke up. He gave me a smile. And he gave me such a loving look. But immediately his face changed and suddenly he spat on my face....
> 
> I cannot even describe the bad taste and awfulness that I felt after that....
> 
> Since then I dared not initiate any body contact with him. We talk, we stay civil. I never bring up the affair. He doesn't bring it up. We never talk about our feelings since that day.


I am going to give you an ENORMOUS dose of reality.

Your daughters will always love their papa. It's is you who they may turn away from. You may not understand that because honestly you come off as SELF ABSORBED to the fullest. You cheated on your husband and destroyed him and now you are just oh me me me me... People aren't talking to you about divorce for primarily your sake but his to allow him to move past what you did to him. 

Yes, nobody hates you but this entire mess was caused by you. You refuse to be an adult. You refuse to look at the world from the standpoint of others and you just want the mess you created to just go away instead of doing the absolute hard work to fix the mess. You want it to go away. Go fix it. Maybe you can learn to be less selfish.

The story you tell about the younger man is just BS. You wanted to seduce him and bonk him and you messed up his life too... 

The reason no one will know about the crater in your family is because your husband has too much pride to come and tell the world what his life is really like. Seems to me like you got a good one and don't honestly deserve him. I think you should work on being deserving of him instead of the selfish spoiled child you come off us. Just my two cents.


----------



## wmn1

KingwoodKev said:


> It would be nice if someday it was law that this had to be tattooed on the foreheads of WS's. That way they couldn't dupe other people into relationships with them.


:iagree:


----------



## G.J.

manticore said:


> I have read cases like yours before, they are not that common but yes, I have read this kind of behaviour from the BS before (for both genders, women and men)
> 
> I think your husband have no intention to forgive you, not at least to a subconscious level.
> 
> See all the cases I have read like yours have something in common, BSs that are high ranked as a dating choice, people that are good looking, that are loyal and have good income and social postion and know their own worth.
> 
> See, I can not imagine something more degrading and emasculating (and hurtful), that hear the OM gigling at you when you call your loved one, is practicaly something like "hahaha fool idiot while you call your wife worried about her, I am fu**ing her, aren't you a fool?" so why I man that can easily find another partner had decided to stay with someone who denigrated him that much?
> 
> Sure her daughters are one of the reasons, but is not just that, people like that that, who have lived their lives being worth of admiration ( when they can easily choice the other path and be cheaters, corrupted, manipulative or whatever deviation you may imagine), they to a conscious level take the choice that is more honorable (something like: is it human to fail and everybody deserves a second chance, besides if I seperate from my partner I am gonna hurt my kids).
> 
> So what do they do?, they stay with their partner because is the right thing to do,*BUT* they don't really forgive him/her, they know that they have lead their lives honorably so they don't deserve the sh*t sanwich that have been served to them, so what do they do?, they put all the conditions for the wronging side to fail again, they continue to be examplary parents and social figures, but they deny their personal investment to the WS, so then the WS can again look external validation and the BS can finally say "see I give him/her a second chance and still he/she, did it again, sorry but I can to do it anymore".
> 
> In resume he has aready decided that he don't want you as his partner, but his morals, and realtionship with her daughters make him feel forced to try it again even if he really does not want it.
> 
> Of all the cases I remember, just one woman was able to save her marriage, and she had to endure years of negative behaviour, you can continue to endure it, but nothing garantizes
> that the same conclusion would come to you


manticore well written

This is very well spelt out that even some one who is self centered as the poster can understand

So I recommend the poster re-reading this and then re-read again

Its not about *YOU*

*Respect *what your husband wants at this stage *NOT* what *YOU* want yet again

If he wants separate rooms and no sexual contact with you then respect *his wish's* and *don't again* connive to get what *you want*

ME, ME, ME, ME
*RESPECT HIS WISH'S*


----------



## bfree

OP, what have you done specifically to help your husband heal from your betrayal? You've said what you've done to try to get him to move past it and give you the marriage you want. But realistically how can he do that if he is still devastated from your affair? How can he trust you when you've not reassured him that this won't happen again? Why would he lower his guard to be intimate with you when he can't trust you? What actions have you taken for his sake?


----------



## MattMatt

No-redemption said:


> I think what you said is very sweet but as you can understand I have some reservation about that.
> 
> And how do I mention him this site when we have this unwritten rule "Dont talk about the affair" ?


I understand your reservation.

Just a drive by love shooting, I was thinking of. 

The second one is a toughie.

Though Talk About Marriage is much wider and broader than the CWI section.


----------



## MattMatt

KingwoodKev said:


> The courts disagree, as do juries. They judge people all the time.


Kev, I thought it was quite telling how you used the "Ooh, look! A squirrel" maneuver, instead of answering Arb's point.


----------



## wmn1

I also bet bringing the guy back to the house hurt a little extra.

I would suggest doing the 'divorce-reconcile' talk. Tell him that while you expect to pay for your actions (i.e. damaged relationship) for the remainder, the 3.5 years in limbo is killing you. You need to know what you need to do, a list, to start rebuilding or what his thoughts would be if you initiated a divorce on amicable terms.

Good for you for firing the young lad and going no contact. At least you got one thing done right away that would have made it worse if that is possible


----------



## Locke.Stratos

No-redemption said:


> No, I am certainly not content with my situation. I want it to change. I want it to be loving and passionate between us. I want him to want me just like he used to. And I'm more than willing to be a freak in the bedroom for my husband.
> 
> That doesn't mean I would just walk up to my husband and say "Hey, f*** me or I'm divorcing you". That type of threat will very well prompt him to do just divorce me.
> 
> There must be other ways. And I have seen some people really give some good ideas without throwing divorce in between.


It seems to me that to you doing whatever it takes to repair your marriage only means sex.


----------



## Divinely Favored

wmn1 said:


> KingwoodKev said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would be nice if someday it was law that this had to be tattooed on the foreheads of WS's. That way they couldn't dupe other people into relationships with them.
Click to expand...

Or if they would enforce the laws on the books now. It's a felony to commit adultry in Oklahoma..punishable by $500 or 5 yrs.


----------



## No-redemption

To Convert...

No the OM's GF did not find out. My husband wanted this to be as discreet as possible. 
Thats why letting him off was also not easy. I had to wait before finding him a new job. I referred him to people I knew in other organizations. Within a month when this was settled, that I laid him off


----------



## arbitrator

Divinely Favored said:


> Or if they would enforce the laws on the books now. It's a felony to commit adultery in Oklahoma..punishable by $500 or 5 yrs.


*$500 would be a drop in the bucket inasfar as a incarceration time was concerned. 5 years in the pokee sounds rather excessive! As does the prospects of being housed with wanton criminals.

I've got it! They could create "Cheater's Prisons," ran and regulated by each state's Family Court System! 

But in all reality, that probably wouldn't be all that feasible; truth be told, the inmates, no doubt, would cheat in there, too!*


----------



## No-redemption

People asking me to respect his wishes....

All I have been doing is respecting his wishes since discovery. Laid off the guy, go sleep with my daughters, tell him anything if he wanted to know, taking his heat, not opposing to anything that he proposed as part of our new living arrangement....you name it.

I know this is passive and doesn't help a situation. But stand in my shoes.... 
take the hurtful words from your husband, cry and cry and still give him assurance that I will never again do any such thing, what he needs from me to show that I am sorry.

Then face a complete stonewall.

I just didn't know what to do that will calm his anger. So I figured I will just comply with whatever he wanted.

I agree with you people. Its time I start engaging my husband. I need to know his feelings about us, how he sees our future and what can I do to help. I will try to ask him these questions as kindly and softly as possible so that he feels safe.

But before I ask these questions I would let him know how much I love him and how I wish we were and what I plan to do on helping him heal so that he knows that I am not just expecting from him. I am fully willing to give it all to rebuild our lives together.


----------



## No-redemption

MovingAhead said:


> I am going to give you an ENORMOUS dose of reality.
> 
> Your daughters will always love their papa.


And I wouldn't have it any other way. I couldn't have asked for a better father and husband than him.



> It's is you who they may turn away from.


I thinks its very petty that you want my daughters to hate me as a form of retribution.
I would give my life for my daughters and I would endure this loveless life for their sake. But again you may interpret this as me being selfish that I only care about myself and only stay for my daughters.

I ALSO STAY BECAUSE I LOVE MY HUSBAND!

And no, divorce won't make me a beggar. I only don't want a divorce because I want a beautiful future with my husband.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Good morning No-Redemption,

First off, please stick around here. I know some people are harsh, but there are genuinely good people here who can help. Sometimes it feels like a hammer to the head, but people need that sometimes.

Engaging your husband is essential. I can understand how hard it is to engage with that stone wall, though. But if you do not want to divorce, then what else is there but to try? 

I hope you can find different ways to engage him. Whatever in the past that has been done has not worked, and I'm sorry to hear that. Sometimes an affair is just a dealbreaker, but the BS will stick around for the kids. Seems that is what happened here. Your marriage is dead, but he is keeping put for the lifestyle- mainly for the children. Unfortunately, you may need to be the one to file.

I know you dont want to, but you also dont want to live this way. Its not healthy for you, or your husband. And it will affect your children. 

His spitting in your face was absolutely unacceptable and disgusting behavior. You will also have to address that with him, but wait until your on more stable ground.


----------



## MovingAhead

No-redemption said:


> And I wouldn't have it any other way. I couldn't have asked for a better father and husband than him.
> 
> 
> 
> I thinks its very petty that you want my daughters to hate me as a form of retribution.
> I would give my life for my daughters and I would endure this loveless life for their sake. But again you may interpret this as me being selfish that I only care about myself and only stay for my daughters.
> 
> I ALSO STAY BECAUSE I LOVE MY HUSBAND!
> 
> And no, divorce won't make me a beggar. I only don't want a divorce because I want a beautiful future with my husband.


And given a husband who is a wonderful father.... you still chose the selfish route...

I am going to say this so even you can understand... YOU ARE TOTALLY SELF ABSORBED. You only care about yourself.

I never said I wanted your daughters to hate you and this is what makes you so dense. What I said is that they will turn away from you if they turn away from anyone. 

What you want is for all of this to magically go away and what I keep telling you is that is fantasy... It doesn't work that way. If you are willing to do the hard work, you have a chance but you just are so me me me me me that I don't think you will ever be able to fix it. You have to change you and think of other people before you think of yourself.


----------



## bfree

No-redemption said:


> People asking me to respect his wishes....
> 
> All I have been doing is respecting his wishes since discovery. Laid off the guy, go sleep with my daughters, tell him anything if he wanted to know, taking his heat, not opposing to anything that he proposed as part of our new living arrangement....you name it.
> 
> *But what actions have you done to atone for your betrayal?*
> 
> I know this is passive and doesn't help a situation. But stand in my shoes....
> take the hurtful words from your husband, cry and cry and still give him assurance that I will never again do any such thing, what he needs from me to show that I am sorry.
> 
> *What assurances? You already vowed to forsake all others and broke that vow. How does he know you won't do such a thing again? Because you say so?*
> 
> Then face a complete stonewall.
> 
> I just didn't know what to do that will calm his anger. So I figured I will just comply with whatever he wanted.
> 
> *So you passively sit there while he suffers? What have you done to figure out how to help heal him? Do you honestly expect him to map it out for you while he is in such pain?*
> 
> I agree with you people. Its time I start engaging my husband. I need to know his feelings about us, how he sees our future and what can I do to help. I will try to ask him these questions as kindly and softly as possible so that he feels safe.
> 
> But before I ask these questions I would let him know how much I love him and how I wish we were and what I plan to do on helping him heal so that he knows that I am not just expecting from him. I am fully willing to give it all to rebuild our lives together.
> 
> *NR, you have waited over three years to finally start to look for ways to help him heal and you wonder why he can't move past your affair?*


----------



## No-redemption

MovingAhead said:


> And given a husband who is a wonderful father.... you still chose the selfish route...
> 
> I am going to say this so even you can understand... YOU ARE TOTALLY SELF ABSORBED. You only care about yourself.
> 
> I never said I wanted your daughters to hate you and this is what makes you so dense. What I said is that they will turn away from you if they turn away from anyone.
> 
> What you want is for all of this to magically go away and what I keep telling you is that is fantasy... It doesn't work that way. If you are willing to do the hard work, you have a chance but you just are so me me me me me that I don't think you will ever be able to fix it. You have to change you and think of other people before you think of yourself.


This is going to be my last response to you....

You have no intention of helping me. You only want to slam me to fulfill your personal vendetta against unfaithful spouses. You only come here to feed you voyeuristic fetish.

Honestly, I can get better advice in YahooAnswers than I get from you.


----------



## just got it 55

altawa said:


> Good for you. My statements still stand. I replied to her thread title (Will I forever pay the price?). The answer was yes, and I threw in that her husband will too. She is a horrible person. She can't fix this. It is pretty obvious. I also think it is pretty obvious, from her own postings, that her husband is completely broken and only still in this 'marriage' for their kid. So, I dont think it is super human at all. I think when we take those vows and are betrayed in that way, each of us reacts to it differently, and his was a destruction of his psyche.
> 
> *I can't say I disagree with this part previous to this post I found some of your contributions to this thread troubling
> *
> I also suspect that she wants someone to tell her that it isnt her fault anymore, that she has done everything she can to fix this at this point, and anything that happens after this is his fault (something which I vehemently disagree with....she was the catalyst for this whole chain of events, any subsequent reaction from the initial action is squarely on her).


Here I am with you 100%

OP you must respond to this

55


----------



## G.J.

No-redemption said:


> People asking me to respect his wishes....
> 
> All I have been doing is respecting his wishes since discovery. Laid off the guy, go sleep with my daughters, tell him anything if he wanted to know, taking his heat, not opposing to anything that he proposed as part of our new living arrangement....you name it.
> 
> I know this is passive and doesn't help a situation. *But stand in my shoes*....O.M.G.
> 
> *I'm not able to as I would never betray my spouse or my wedding vows*
> 
> take the hurtful words from your husband, cry and cry and still give him assurance that I will never again do any such thing, what he needs from me to show that I am sorry.
> 
> Then face a complete stonewall.
> 
> *You made the situation and alienated your husband if you don't like it Divorce*
> 
> I just didn't know what to do that will calm his anger. So I figured I will just comply with whatever he wanted.
> 
> I agree with you people. Its time I start engaging my husband. I need to know his feelings about us, how he sees our future and what can I do to help. I will try to ask him these questions as kindly and softly as possible so that he feels safe.
> 
> *He has already told you he wants nothing from you as a wife..what don't you understand* ?
> 
> But before I ask these questions I would let him know how much I love him and how I wish we were and what I plan to do on helping him heal so that he knows that I am not just expecting from him. I am fully willing to give it all to rebuild our lives together.


*You don't love him its not a tap to turn on and off 
You destroyed the love between you when you opened your legs to another*
*He doesn't want to rebuild*

So my advice is to *RESPECT HIS WISHS NOT YOURS*


----------



## IIJokerII

No-redemption said:


> This is going to be my last response to you....
> 
> You have no intention of helping me. You only want to slam me to fulfill your personal vendetta against unfaithful spouses. You only come here to feed you voyeuristic fetish.
> 
> Honestly, I can get better advice in YahooAnswers than I get from you.


What exactly do you want? One word, nothing more.


----------



## arbitrator

MovingAhead said:


> And given a husband who is a wonderful father.... you still chose the selfish route...
> 
> I am going to say this so even you can understand... YOU ARE TOTALLY SELF ABSORBED. You only care about yourself.
> 
> I never said I wanted your daughters to hate you and this is what makes you so dense. What I said is that they will turn away from you if they turn away from anyone.
> 
> What you want is for all of this to magically go away and what I keep telling you is that is fantasy... It doesn't work that way. If you are willing to do the hard work, you have a chance but you just are so me me me me me that I don't think you will ever be able to fix it. You have to change you and think of other people before you think of yourself.


*Just as your H is going to have to come to grips with his self-imposed isolation from you and his total unwillingness to try to work out any possible solution with you, inclusive of family counselling!

Face the facts, you are two people who are so conversely stubborn in their own rights, that neither is going to relent to the other ones needs.You're just largely staying in the status quo hoping that something miraculous is going to happen! Hate to tell you but that's almost tantamount to insanity!

If you don't get your H into MC, then I don't know what else to tell you but to seek out your very own peace of mind as well as your daughters. As is, you both are being absolutely poor role models as parents for them! As they grow older, they will come to resent you both! Consider that!
*


----------



## lifeistooshort

There is something really offputting about the guys here using OP as a punching bag for their own anger. Yes what she did was crappy and she knows it, but you know what? I've seen wayward husbands on this site complain their wives won't have sex with them after a lot less time than 3 1/2 years and they are told they're entitled to sex because while what they did was lousy their wife chose to stay so she owes him sex. I mean, how can the marriage heal if poor cheater is denied sex? Why is this different? Because it's a man? She's done everything he's asked and she's not allowed talk about it so what more do you want from her? Geez, I get that on tam their is no greater evil then a ww but it would be nice if their was more helpful advice and less name calling. Its a huge double standard and the reason more ww's don't come here. A cheating guy whose wife spit in his face would be told to man up and find his balls, but apparently cheating men are subject to different standards. Thanks to the few guys here that really do treat them the same. you know who you are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## G.J.

lifeistooshort said:


> There is something really offputting about the guys here using OP as a punching bag for their own anger. Yes what she did was crappy and she knows it, but you know what? I've seen wayward husbands on this site complain their wives won't have sex with them after a lot less time than 3 1/2 years and they are told they're entitled to sex because while what they did was lousy their wife chose to stay so she owes him sex. I mean, how can the marriage heal if poor cheater is denied sex? Why is this different? Because it's a man? She's done everything he's asked and she's not allowed talk about it so what more do you want from her? Geez, I get that on tam their is no greater evil then a ww but it would be nice if their was more helpful advice and less name calling. Its a huge double standard and the reason more ww's don't come here. A cheating guy whose wife spit in his face would be told to man up and find his balls, but apparently cheating men are subject to different standards. Thanks to the few guys here that really do treat them the same. you know who you are.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its really not rocket science in this case

If the *BS DOESNT WANT TO FULLY R* then why should he as hes possibly there just for the kids.......as there's nothing else in his eyes

The ball is in her court to what she wants to do if she's not happy with the paradigm she caused

So please put away the women's card as I would say the same if it was a guy posting

p.s.
im all for R
*IF THE BS WANTS IT*


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## manfromlamancha

OK in my last post I shared what you came across as from your posts even if what I said was not really true - that is how you were perceived by me. And the reason I said all that was to make you understand how you could be perceived by your husband. Especially the disrespect, lying, cheating and the emasculation he must have felt at being cuckolded in his own bed by a younger stud. So you can expect him to kind of behave the way he is doing now.

Also you were going to explain as to how his (your husband's) previous behaviour kind of led to him staying with you instead of bolting. Haven't seen this yet (but I may have missed it).

Now this should tell you how you need to behave to (a) better yourself; and (b) have any hope of really getting him back.

For what its worth, I get that you are truly sorry now. And I hope it is for the hurt you have caused him and not for yourself.

So you need to be a better person for yourself to start out with. Empathy with his feelings is a good start and if you did really empathise with him, you would not be pushing him to show you love of any kind - you would simply show him love without expecting anything in return (not kind words, no displays of affection, nothing). You would give him the space and time he needs. You would make it clear to him that you are ready to do anything it takes to help him (not to reconcile, or get back in his bed - but to truly help him). But you would also make it clear that you are willing to wait and do this for a finite period of time! Else it would not be productive or helpful for him as well as yourself.

You need to carry on being an excellent mother too. Make sure your kids know that you are there for them always and make them your priority.

Improve your boundaries and self worth by reading and doing the right things.

After your finite period of time then offer to split as amicably as possible. Make sure that at the very least you both have equal access to your kids and that you both do what is best for them.

I think, if he sees you do all this, he will start to see you in a new light. Not that your marriage will ever be what it was, but he will start to respect that you really are sorry and want to make things better even if better is not that great for you personally.

And who knows what happens after.

So stop making any of this about you and get on with it. I wish you the best of luck with getting your family back together again and finding happiness once again.


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## Dogbert

No-redemption said:


> I like this idea of writing a journal. This hasn't come to me before. Maybe I can write him a letter and put my thoughts in there. But I wouldn't even know where to start. Its been 2 years since he and I have spoken about the affair. Our talks only revolve on our day to day lives, our children and maybe sometimes about our workplaces. I do not brink up my workplace much because I know he can get angry about that.
> 
> So if any of you can give me a headstart about what to write I can get some ideas. Before I do this, I need to gather all my thoughts in one place and put it right. I don't want to make another mistake and close down another channel of communication.


Though there hasn't been any happy moments in the last 3.5 years between you and your husband, perhaps writing down the happy moments as a family can be a good beginning. You can start from the time you gave birth to your first child and express the entire gamut of emotions and thoughts about that day which might include your husband's as well. Then continue with other happy moments like how you and your husband felt when your child took her first steps. 

Do you see where I'm going? Even your husband's heart can't deny those happy moments. They were the product of the love the two of you had for one another. And while there is no guarantee that these journal entries will make your husband forgive you and want you back as his wife, they may soften his heart enough to view you again as woman and not as the monster he has lived with for 3.5 years.


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## BWBill

_You have no intention of helping me. You only want to slam me to fulfill your personal vendetta against unfaithful spouses._

And yet his mindset is probably closer to your husband's than any of the sympathetic posters.

I suggest you divorce and move on, and let your husband heal or not.


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## CH

NR, I'm a WS. There's a fine line between taking the flak and abuse. He had the choice to leave and not take you back. But now the ball is in your court. How long are you willing to endure this?

It's been stated and it's pretty obvious, he's biding his time waiting for the kids to leave the house before he bails IMO. You're the free maid, housekeeper and nanny for the kids and house right now only. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you're willing to stick it out and hope that one day he'll come around (doubtful but it could happen) then I do wish you and your husband the best.

He didn't deserve you cheating on him but you don't deserve him treating you like this if he wanted to R and save the marriage.

It's the price you pay though, if you never cheated you wouldn't be in this situation.....Now you've got a big choice ahead of you. Whatever choice you make, hopefully you've learned not to make this mistake again.

Pretty big price to pay wasn't it. Now you know it wasn't worth it, but when we were screwing the other person that wasn't our spouse, it SURE SEEMED WORTH IT at the time. It's always I love my spouse so much I can't live without them......If you cheated you can live without them, trust me.


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## No-redemption

Thanks Dogbert. It was of great help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## just got it 55

NR I think you are going to need to take a good look at the harsh reality type posts (The one that are posted to help)and the more sensitive type that are meant to help you think and recognise your way to resolve yhe present state of your marriage

Dogberts post is spot on and the most realistic...pragmatic approach

Again ...... further demonstrate you value your BS show him your diligance in helping his recovery no matter what the results.

55


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## Thundarr

Quite a few trigger blind comments in this thread (not the last few though). Triggers are too overwhelming for a few posters to see that No-redemption has been trying to reconcile. Of course her efforts seem to be in vain but it's still effort. Thus No-redemption has become a punching bag for pent up anger. There's irony in posters telling her how much of a "me me me" person she is while they are indeed on her thread not attempting to help at all but instead unloading anger that should be directed at their ex rather than her. That's a sign of a "me me me" person as well. Maybe it takes one to know one. And the irony of Character and integrity warriors calling her out with no purpose except to get hurtful words off their chest.

Of course this is par for TAM lately. I've seen this crazy fictitious notion of team WS and team BS now for a few months. This way of thinking is cancer to TAM or any marriage forum. Now if we change the forum name to "fight about marriage" then teams might make sense.


----------



## MountainRunner

No-redemption said:


> Hii everyone,
> I am desperately looking for any help. Infact I have looking looking for help in other sites similar to this. I don't if this one will be of any help.
> I should start by saying I am a wife that cheated. Got caught. That was 3.5 years ago. Since then my husband has not had any sex with me. Infact he has not touched me in any way, not even holding my hand since then.
> 
> I have tried talking to him. I have cried night after night in front of him. I have asked to get us help through marriage counselling (he refuses, says no point in wasting money). When the children have not been in the house, I walked naked in front of him in an effort to seduce him(this thing I did not even do in front of my affair partner). I have stated in explicit and dirty words that I want him to do me real bad (his response to such talks has crushed me from inside). Infact I can't think of having left any stone unturned to just get him to bed with me. But he is apparently the proverbial unmoveable object...
> 
> He was not like this. We had an exciting sexual life till the discovery of my affair. He says thats why he feels more inadequate. I assured him he is not, it was only me and my selfish desires that led me to seek another man. Only if he will believe me...
> 
> This gets more difficult due to the fact he and I sleep separately. Since discovery, he asked me to sleep with our daughters. Then he built himself another room where he now sleeps.
> 
> My husband is very attractive. Men of his age start losing hairs, grow bellies, develop various health issues. But he is slender and athletic with thick bushy hairs. And no health issues even when he is a smoker. You would think he was still 33-35. He is one of those rare guys that get handsomer as the years pass by.
> So yes, I am crazy for him physically. Infact if he is to right now walk in the room and ask me to come to bed, I will jump despite how he has rejected me these last 3+ years....
> 
> I am at a loss. I don't know if I will ever experience the sweetness that intimacy brings between couples. I just can't take this anymore...
> 
> There is more to the story which will explain what will give a more clear picture of why my husband finds me so disgusting and why I landed in an affair (there is a very weird reason for that). I will write when I have more time....


I really feel for what you're going through NR, I do. Reconciliation requires commitment and effort from both partners for it to work. I am a cheater also. I was caught in not one, but 2 EAs just this last December. I too find my wife beautiful, yet that didn't stop me from entering into these "relationships" when the OWs became "interested". It's a flaw in our nature and unless we do something about addressing it, we will continue to make the same mistakes over and over (I've been doing it for decades now without ever realizing that the problem was within me until this last time). anyway, I digress...

My wife made it very clear that she wants to remain together...PROVIDED I get help and actively work on my issues and I am proving that to her. she also recognizes it and acknowledges it. That is probably making it easier for her to open back up to me and begin trusting. I tell her on a regular basis how it pains me what I've done to her. I tell her that I am doing what it takes to get better. She sees me going to my therapy. In return, she is working on herself too! She will be receiving her BHRT (Bio-identical Hormone Replacement Therapy) test kit any day now.

I know I devastated her (caught her in tears last week after she was comparing herself physically to the other women). Why she remains with me often times befuddles me, but as long as she's in it...so am I. I reassure her...daily. I'm sure you are doing the same and it is somewhat puzzling how he wants to remain together but doesn't seem to have any desire to move beyond the affair. For both your sake, I hope he does come around and decide to put in the effort to make your reconciliation work because it can work...but both parties need to be willing to make the commitment. Best of luck to you my friend.


----------



## MattMatt

G.J. said:


> Its really not rocket science in this case
> 
> If the *BS DOESNT WANT TO FULLY R* then why should he as hes possibly there just for the kids.......as there's nothing else in his eyes
> 
> The ball is in her court to what she wants to do if she's not happy with the paradigm she caused
> 
> So please put away the women's card as I would say the same if it was a guy posting
> 
> p.s.
> im all for R
> *IF THE BS WANTS IT*


Seen it before, though. 

In fact, several times some people have been so ruthless in their attacks on other's WSs that their BS has had to come to the thread and defend their WS.


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## Mr.Fisty

Thundarr said:


> Quite a few trigger blind comments in this thread (not the last few though). Triggers are too overwhelming for a few posters to see that No-redemption has been trying to reconcile. Of course her efforts seem to be in vain but it's still effort. Thus No-redemption has become a punching bag for pent up anger. There's irony in posters telling her how much of a "me me me" person she is while they are indeed on her thread not attempting to help at all but instead unloading anger that should be directed at their ex rather than her. That's a sign of a "me me me" person as well. Maybe it takes one to know one. And the irony of Character and integrity warriors calling her out with no purpose except to get hurtful words off their chest.
> 
> Of course this is par for TAM lately. I've seen this crazy fictitious notion of team WS and team BS now for a few months. This way of thinking is cancer to TAM or any marriage forum. Now if we change the forum name to "fight about marriage" then teams might make sense.



Can we have it in debate format, where the debate rarely changes a person's view on the subject? We are good at tribal mentalities, we just have to learn to operate in the reality that is, and hopefully what we do has enough ripple effect to make a difference.


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## to much drama

No-redemption,

I have read pretty all of the postings here and I guess you will not like mine also.

First off you made this mess. If you really loved your husband and you had respect for him, you would have never cheated on him.

you state that you want to divorce then you don't.

I know what it means when someone spits in someone's face. You husband is telling you "You disgust me" "To look at you everyday let alone to touch you makes me sick".

He is now trying to give respect to himself, for him and for you ("You" meaning he has to make up 2 people that should be respecting him , because you did not)

You also stated that we should put ourselves in your shoes. We do not want to do that, your the cheater and we are not and nor is your husband. it is still not about you anymore, you made the mess your in and you and only you have to fix it, no matter how long it takes. Grow up be an adult and face what you did, deal with all his crappy emotions. If you do not want to deal with it, then once again, be an adult and ask/tell him for the divorce. And maybe in time he might miss you and want you again. Unless you can't keep your pants on.
He might also have his radar on and can feel you wanting to divorce. You may say things to him that you want to be with him and the your sorry, but your body language, the way you tell him things etc. maybe telling him something negative.
Keep in mind these things.............
He does not trust you anymore
You disgust him
He does see you as you were when you first were together
He will never feel the love when it was at first
Have sex with you, all he sees is either your ex longggg time ago BF and the kid doing you. Why would he want to see that, but that is what is going on in his head.
This is not his fault you did this with some long ago holding on to something years in the past and for some reason you could/can't let go of it. Get over your stupid fantasy and deal with the now and what you did to him and your kids/family.

Even on here I see your are really short tempered and impatience.
Did you really think that 1 day or 1 week or 1 month or 1 year and it all goes away? It does not!! It may hurt less and maybe he might get back a little dignity back. So, if your telling us you want to divorce him because you can't take his baby crap, then it would be best if you moved out. he shouldn't have to leave or have the kids leave. you made your stupid immature choice and you need to leave, separate, then get a divorce. maybe he might change to miss/want you again, but it will never be the same. You both will have to start all over again and with him having his flashback vids in his head. If you can't then end the suffering for all of you and separate. for him for the kids and then for you. his pride is broken and he will not ask for the divorce.

You need to learn to stop being short tempered. always on the defensive you sound angry, spiteful and bitter. When people here tell you things whether it seems/sounds bad or even good. You need to read and think. the bad is good. learn from the hurt from others.

To tell you the truth, it seems like the easy way out for you is "OUT". you do not want the hard work to fix what you did, you made the mess, fix it then.

You were asked to write some nice things down and give them to you husband, but you came back here and asked for help to what to write.
If you need help on what to write about being so so sorry, or what you want to plan the future with him and the kids, then you really do not love him and your are not sorry for what you did or what you still fantasize about your long time ago ex boyfriend or some guy you wanted and could never have.

You need to put yourself in his shoes.
You also said he could be with another woman, it would be ok. Really? You would be ok with him having feeling with another women? Having sex with her in your bed, on your couch etc.? 

That's another thing.......... you had to have sex in your house -- his house, god your an idiot!!! How disrespectful do you think that is? doing it in his 'HOME" and in his marital bed and before you say you did not do it the bed. If you didn't, it does not matter. In his mind you did and always and you just did not do it with the one kid, you had a 3-way with your fantasy guy.
Man you really screwed this guy, you better stay and fix the mess that you did not him , you!!!

So take the easy way and separate/divorce or
Fix the mess. It will take forever, it will get better but it is a long road. and if he truly loves you and he is just hurt really bad by all of this it will get better for him.

your choice and good luck.

CR


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## G.J.

MattMatt said:


> Seen it before, though.
> 
> In fact, several times some people have been so ruthless in their attacks on other's WSs that their BS has had to come to the thread and defend their WS.


Let me say again

Her husband...that's her husband *DOESNT WANT TO HAVE HER FULLY AS HIS WIFE*

She didn't want him so he got the message

What's to not understand

hmm is the appropriate response with icons to make a question mark or roll of the eyes back...nar ill stick to just typing

Just because the cheating spouse wants him back doesn't mean diddly squat

The least she can do is respect what he wants after what she did


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## wmn1

No-redemption said:


> Thanks Dogbert. It was of great help.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


so let's get to it. When do you plan to break the ice and talk to him ?


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## MovingAhead

MountainRunner said:


> I really feel for what you're going through NR, I do. Reconciliation requires commitment and effort from both partners for it to work. I am a cheater also. I was caught in not one, but 2 EAs just this last December. I too find my wife beautiful, yet that didn't stop me from entering into these "relationships" when the OWs became "interested". It's a flaw in our nature and unless we do something about addressing it, we will continue to make the same mistakes over and over (I've been doing it for decades now without ever realizing that the problem was within me until this last time). anyway, I digress...
> 
> My wife made it very clear that she wants to remain together...PROVIDED I get help and actively work on my issues and I am proving that to her. she also recognizes it and acknowledges it. That is probably making it easier for her to open back up to me and begin trusting. I tell her on a regular basis how it pains me what I've done to her. I tell her that I am doing what it takes to get better. She sees me going to my therapy. In return, she is working on herself too! She will be receiving her BHRT (Bio-identical Hormone Replacement Therapy) test kit any day now.
> 
> I know I devastated her (caught her in tears last week after she was comparing herself physically to the other women). Why she remains with me often times befuddles me, but as long as she's in it...so am I. I reassure her...daily. I'm sure you are doing the same and it is somewhat puzzling how he wants to remain together but doesn't seem to have any desire to move beyond the affair. For both your sake, I hope he does come around and decide to put in the effort to make your reconciliation work because it can work...but both parties need to be willing to make the commitment. Best of luck to you my friend.


This... is the possible path toward redemption and reconciliation... MR is doing the hard work and has shown remorse... Learn or be dense...


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## thummper

NR I'm afraid your husband has made it absolutely plain that he has NO intention of living together with you as husband and wife. I know you wish it to be otherwise, but that doesn't seem likely. What DOES seem likely (and I believe others have pointed this out already) is that he's only sticking around for the children. When they're gone, he'll probably pull the plug on your marriage and file for divorce. At this point it's no good casting blame and recriminations on you. You know what you did and you've accepted the consequences. You should perhaps be thinking about life after divorce. Start making some plans about where you might go and what you might do. Just understand, from what I can see the end of your marriage is inevitable. You'll need to accept that and move on accordingly. I do feel really badly for you. You made a terrible choice and no matter how hard you try, you'll never be able to correct it. Good luck to you.


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## Dogbert

Common summary of some posts "You're fvckd but good luck".


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## MountainRunner

One other thing I might add for your consideration NR...

Not once did I ever pressure her to make a decision one way or the other. In fact, I went so far as to say that whatever she decides, I would honor. She opted to stay, but it was "touch and go" for a few weeks there to be sure. On D-Day I moved out of our bedroom and into the guest bedroom. Every night, we gave each other a goodnight kiss and a hug and off each of us went. Never once did I ask to come back. Instead, I told her that she will have the final say so as to if/when I come back.

By empowering her and not pressuring her, it allowed her the freedom to make her decisions without bias and/or pressure (to a certain extent). I truly believe that had I pressured her, everything would have backfired.

Instead (as my other thread states), I was asked to come back to our room permanently this morning. Honestly, it came as a surprise (albeit pleasant) as I expected it to take a bit longer.


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## Locke.Stratos

*No-redemption* I don't think that your husband has it in him to forgive you, perhaps he is not capable of it or lacks the tools to do so. The affair was like the emotional equivalent of a nuclear explosion, he is not the same and his feelings for you aren't or will never be the same again.

Maybe engaging him and not being passive in helping him heal and repairing your marriage may work but you have to be willing to do whatever it takes. He might not prove responsive to your efforts but what else do you have to lose.

Something that I have noticed in your writing that other posters have mentioned is that you are self-involved a lot. Almost all your paragraphs and sentences contain several instances of *I*, *me* or *my*. If this is the case in your real life and not just in your writing on here then maybe your husband is aware and also feels the same way and probably thinks that you don't deserve a second chance.

If you are really a caring, kind and selfless person then prove this to him. Otherwise end the marriage, it's actually sad that there is a marriage like this out there in the world.


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## ing

This is why he won't touch you, love you or cherish you.

_"He is more disturbed by the fact that I was in love with a person from my past and was not upfront about it. He says I will forever love that guy from college and now that I have slept with another man only shows him that I will always love my college crush."_

He feels that from the very beginning your marriage has been a lie. You were never really his girl and you have proven it.
This is not about sex. It is about love and you took it away so easily to give to this man.

Every day he looks for the woman who loves him. Everyday he will wake up hoping that he sees that smile and a look in your eyes. Everyday.

I think he knows that you don't love him.


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## weightlifter

Fish or cut bait time. It ain't gonna get better.

Learn the lesson and start over.


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## altawa

ing said:


> This is why he won't touch you, love you or cherish you.
> 
> _"He is more disturbed by the fact that I was in love with a person from my past and was not upfront about it. He says I will forever love that guy from college and now that I have slept with another man only shows him that I will always love my college crush."_
> 
> He feels that from the very beginning your marriage has been a lie. You were never really his girl and you have proven it.
> This is not about sex. It is about love and you took it away so easily to give to this man.
> 
> *Every day he looks for the woman who loves him. Everyday he will wake up hoping that he sees that smile and a look in your eyes. Everyday.*
> 
> *I think he knows that you don't love him.*


On top of that, I think even if he did somehow see it in her again, he wouldn't believe it wasn't another lie.

I don't see this coming back.


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## LongWalk

No-redemption,

Your husband has stated that the situation is hopeless and yet he does not divorce and move on.

Go get in his bed in the middle of the night. Hug him. Just keep offering your love and affection.

Make his favorite meals.

Smile at him. Tell him you are not giving up.

Exposing yourself to rejection hurts but what choice do you have? Go on as long as you can. When you have nothing left to give file for divorce. While divorce is pending you can still reconcile.

Not giving a spouse any physical or emotional affection for 3.5 years is abuse. You have to break out of this deadlock by beginning R or D.


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## verpin zal

Interesting thread.

Normally I'm the first one to go for the throat of any WS, but this one I'll sit out.

I noticed that the OP is actively trying to avoid answering bfree's questions.

That alone shows how the OP is still thinking about herself only.

I'd like to be proven wrong, of course.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By No-Redemption
> So when girls were asleep I tiptoed into his room. Went up in bed and started to rub his chest. The started kissing his neck. He woke up. He gave me a smile. And he gave me such a loving look. But immediately his face changed and suddenly he spat on my face..
> 
> No, I am certainly not content with my situation. I want it to change. I want it to be loving and passionate between us. I want him to want me just like he used to. And I'm more than willing to be a freak in the bedroom for my husband.
> 
> There must be other ways. And I have seen some people really give some good ideas without throwing divorce in between.
> I agree with you people. Its time I start engaging my husband. I need to know his feelings about us, how he sees our future and what can I do to help.
> 
> I am fully willing to give it all to rebuild our lives together


You know that you are broken and made a very horrid decision and now you desperately want your husband to come back to you. The TAM advice that you have gotten on this thread that addresses you getting back your husband is good advice for the most part. However, your husband is by far the main factor in your relationship. Your husband is not even close to wanting to R so try and look at your situation from the point of probability and reality.

I love to see reconciliation especially because you have two small children. However, your husband has a stone cold heart towards coming back to you the way you want it. I am not going to discourage you from trying to get back with your husband because the seemly impossible can happen. I am going to suggest to you that you have a backup plan-B for yourself and your children. Do not make the decision that you are going to get your husband back and that is the only option. In fact you should be working as hard on getting your plan B going as you are trying to get your husband back; in fact you should work harder on plan B because that has a LOT of possibility and your husband is dead to you.

You committing betrayal to your husband is not the end of your world and your husband is not your whole world. Your betrayal will most likely cause you to have a relationship with your husband that you do not want and that is the consequences you probably have to pay for the rest of your life. Your chances of getting your marriage back like you want are slim to none and slim has probably left the building. You would-be very foolish to not start working on your plan B!

You have already stated how you love your children and I believe you. *They need to be your number one concern and not the marriage.* Why? Because the chance of success as a mother is FAR more likely than your success in marriage. In fact your chances of having a good relationship with your children are about 99 times better than having a good relationship with your marriage.* Even though you have committed one of the worst marriage killers in existence, you can have a very good relationship with your children*. 

Because of what you have done to your husband you have forced him make the decision to forgive and restore you or reject you. At this time he has chosen, in a very strong way, to reject you and to even spit in your face. Your husband has left no doubt about his strong position! *You will be doing yourself and your children a great disservice if you do not diligently work on your plan B*

Your reality is not one that is pretty but IT IS YOUR REALITY so you can face it or ignore it but it will not go away.

*You have many many years to rebuild the broken part of your life that you mentioned.* Do not forfeit that rebuilding of your life because you want to chase a dream that has about a 1% chance of occurring. You can try to do both but you would be very smart to work mostly on you and your relationship with your children. *Children need a stable and strong mother and you can provide that. You can rebuild and have a decent life.
*


----------



## bfree

verpin zal said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> Normally I'm the first one to go for the throat of any WS, but this one I'll sit out.
> 
> I noticed that the OP is actively trying to avoid answering bfree's questions.
> 
> That alone shows how the OP is still thinking about herself only.
> 
> I'd like to be proven wrong, of course.


I suspect she's upset that her husband hasn't gone along with her rugsweeping plans and has stubbornly refused to sacrifice his dignity. The fact that he's not divorced her tells me that he was open to reconciliation, at least at some point. But it sounds to me like she's regretful but not remorseful enough to actually take action and help heal her husband. Until I hear differently I am going to assume that she is in a purgatory of her own design.


----------



## ThePheonix

QUOTE=wmn1;11820041]
Good for you for firing the young lad and going no contact. [/QUOTE]

A trial/labor lawyers dream come true. Like they say down in bayous , " Dat boug and his lawyer shownuf could clean her plow in court. He could din tell um merci beaucoup, it was fun doin bidness widja, and I won't spend it all in one place."


----------



## 3putt

> A trial/labor lawyers dream come true. Like they say down in bayous , " Dat boug and his lawyer shownuf could clean her plow in court. He could din tell um merci beaucoup, it was fun doin bidness widja, and I won't spend it all in one place."


This happened 3+ years ago. That ship has likely sailed.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

You aren't happy with the road that you're on, but it was laid beneath your feet by your own past actions. A brick of deciet here a stone of unfaithfulness there. Now you don't want to be where it has taken you. Then do something about it. You, and only you can decide where you go from her.

There's a good chance that your Husband may not follow, but that is something the he and only he can decide.

You've made claims about how much you loved him. How that even though it was an arranged marriage, you landed a great man and Husband. Your actions don't reflect this. There's something missing here. If you thought he was that great and that you loved him so much, I think that a ONS stand would have been very unlikely. An 8 month affair... What aren't you telling us?

I have to wonder if the very reason that you decided to be unfaithful isn't the same reason that you're Husband hasn't had sex with you since he found out about the affair.

I don't expect you to tell us what it is, but don't expect anyone here to help you solve this puzzle until you give them all the pieces to it.


----------



## Coffee Amore

I am going to watch this thread closely. If this thread is a trigger for you and you can't give advice in a constructive way, stop posting and go to another thread. The OP isn't here to be anyone's punching bag.


----------



## MrsDraper

Every time I read this article, I think this: Yes, you will forever pay the price because things can never be the same.


Just from reading your story, I think you would be a lot happier if you parted ways. No one deserves to live in a marriage like that. File for divorce, get into some therapy for yourself. The individual therapy is to help you cope with all the changes you have gone through and the ones you will go through. 

Then try to change for the better and move on. Live and learn.


----------



## Rugs

lifeistooshort said:


> There is something really offputting about the guys here using OP as a punching bag for their own anger. Yes what she did was crappy and she knows it, but you know what? I've seen wayward husbands on this site complain their wives won't have sex with them after a lot less time than 3 1/2 years and they are told they're entitled to sex because while what they did was lousy their wife chose to stay so she owes him sex. I mean, how can the marriage heal if poor cheater is denied sex? Why is this different? Because it's a man? She's done everything he's asked and she's not allowed talk about it so what more do you want from her? Geez, I get that on tam their is no greater evil then a ww but it would be nice if their was more helpful advice and less name calling. Its a huge double standard and the reason more ww's don't come here. A cheating guy whose wife spit in his face would be told to man up and find his balls, but apparently cheating men are subject to different standards. Thanks to the few guys here that really do treat them the same. you know who you are.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



While I somewhat agree to some of this statement, OP's husband wants nothing to do with his wife but will not divorce her. 

She should file for divorce and not wait around to be spat at. 

Her husband does not want her anymore. I sympathize with what the OP wants but she's not going to get it. 

Maybe filing for divorce and standing up for herself might get her husband's attention for a second try. Not difficult psychology here. 

But, OP, although hurting, has to understand what affairs cost some people. Some WS's are given not only one, but sometimes several attempts to reconcile. This story has a BS that no longer wants his wife as a wife but he gets to see his kids everyday, have household help. No alimony.......at least he was honest with his choice and if she (OP) would told her it was dead on D-Day. 

No bashing from me OP, I just think for the sake of EVERYONE in your household, divorce would be the nicest thing you could do.


----------



## Rugs

CH said:


> NR, I'm a WS. There's a fine line between taking the flak and abuse. He had the choice to leave and not take you back. But now the ball is in your court. How long are you willing to endure this?
> 
> It's been stated and it's pretty obvious, he's biding his time waiting for the kids to leave the house before he bails IMO. You're the free maid, housekeeper and nanny for the kids and house right now only. Nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> If you're willing to stick it out and hope that one day he'll come around (doubtful but it could happen) then I do wish you and your husband the best.
> 
> He didn't deserve you cheating on him but you don't deserve him treating you like this if he wanted to R and save the marriage.
> 
> It's the price you pay though, if you never cheated you wouldn't be in this situation.....Now you've got a big choice ahead of you. Whatever choice you make, hopefully you've learned not to make this mistake again.
> 
> Pretty big price to pay wasn't it. Now you know it wasn't worth it, but when we were screwing the other person that wasn't our spouse, it SURE SEEMED WORTH IT at the time. It's always I love my spouse so much I can't live without them......If you cheated you can live without them, trust me.



This says it better than I did, I just didn't read all the posts before I posted. Thumbs up too this post.


----------



## No-redemption

I have taken Affaircare and Graywolfs's advice about becoming my husband's best friend first:

Yesterday evening he came home very tired and with a lot of files in his hand. I asked him if everything was alright. He said the upcoming elections are putting too much strain on his office and the work has become more outdoor than indoor. On top of that the files need to be reviewed before Monday.

I quickly gave him a glass of cold water and fixed him some snack and tea. He asked me how was my day. I didn't want to add to his stress with my mental turmoil. So I said as usual. Then I offered him to help him with those file if he wanted. He smiled. So I said to him I may not know about tax structure much, but I file the tax returns for my own organization. So I may be of some help if he let me know what needs to be done with those files. He asked if this would hamper my work. I said absolutely not, I don't have very much on my hand right now. He then said "OK, that will be great".

So I left to let him rest.

I will be very busy this weekend.


----------



## No-redemption

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> An 8 month affair... What aren't you telling us?
> 
> I have to wonder if the very reason that you decided to be unfaithful isn't the same reason that you're Husband hasn't had sex with you since he found out about the affair.


What do you mean?


----------



## manticore

No-redemption said:


> To Convert...
> 
> No the OM's GF did not find out. My husband wanted this to be as discreet as possible.
> Thats why letting him off was also not easy. I had to wait before finding him a new job. I referred him to people I knew in other organizations. Within a month when this was settled, that I laid him off


WOW, I wanted to be supportive in this thread (as i have managed to be in the past with other WS where the BS was not plan B) but definitely I just can't , so the OM just not made fun of the BS laughting at him while talking to the WS, but he also got rewarded with a better Job (obviously because otherwise wilingly he have no reason to accept the laid of) with a nice recomendation from his previous company and he keep his loving loyal girlfriend, no wonder the the BS have so much resentment towards his unloyal partner for the unfairness of the case.

I don't think you are are a demon or that you deserve the worst of the punishments, obviously your commitment after 3,5 years shows that even after your horrible selfish behaviour, in your own way your priority is your husband and family, but in all honesty, if your husband is in a cultural society like mine (latin), where women infidelity is even more condemned that in caucasian culture, I doubt he will be ever able to overcome the unfainess of his situation, I Hope he finds the happines he deserves even if that means it has to be with other woman.

I wish you luck but now that I have read all the facts, I Doubt your Bs will be able to overcome your infidelity, normally one of the biggest factors for man In R is that many times the Ws helps him to burn the OM showing her loyalty, but in this case e even if it was at his request the fact that the OM got rewarded probably will haunt him forever, and being with you will be a constant reminder of that.


----------



## 2ntnuf

My guess is...They are well known publicly. There are elections to win. They must hide these things. The easiest way to handle it was to get him a better job. It may be a case where she cannot leave, nor can her husband, so she wants to make the best of it. It is really sad for both of them. I don't think she can divorce him without terrible consequences. What a mess. It reads like you have no choice, but to accept the consequences or lose all you have worked for in life, not just your marriage. What a shame for you both.


----------



## No-redemption

manticore said:


> so the OM just not made fun of the BS laughting at him while talking to the WS, but he also got rewarded with a better Job (obviously because otherwise wilingly he have no reason to accept the laid of) with a nice recomendation from his previous company and he keep his loving loyal girlfriend, no wonder the the BS have so much resentment towards his unloyal partner.


You may choose to believe me or not but I immediately wanted to fire the guy. It was my husband who disagreed. And from his standpoint it was completely understandable.

Reacting in such a rash way would only have caused the guy to rataliate back. He would have told everyone in the office about the affair and that would have echoed to my family members and then his family members. Because despite my affair, the OM was competent professionally and there was no reason to fire him.

The whole thing would have caused a huge scandal that would have affected our daughters too. So it was my husband who proposed this arrangement. My husband is very practical practical and well respected in his circles. He didn't want anything that could harm his reputation and our daughters.

But the day after discovery, I stopped any personal contact with the guy and as soon as he was gone, I deleted his number from my phone and blocked him in Facebook and email IDs. And it has been that way ever since.

But I think now you will say that because I was not shamed in public, I didn't suffer any consequences.


----------



## KingwoodKev

No-redemption said:


> You may choose to believe me or not but I immediately wanted to fire the guy. It was my husband who disagreed. And from his standpoint it was completely understandable.
> 
> Reacting in such a rash way would only have caused the guy to rataliate back. He would have told everyone in the office about the affair and that would have echoed to my family members and then his family members. Because despite my affair, the OM was competent professionally and there was no reason to fire him.
> 
> The whole thing would have caused a huge scandal that would have affected our daughters too. So it was my husband who proposed this arrangement. My husband is very practical practical and well respected in his circles. He didn't want anything that could harm his reputation and our daughters.
> 
> But the day after discovery, I stopped any personal contact with the guy and as soon as he was gone, I deleted his number from my phone and blocked him in Facebook and email IDs. And it has been that way ever since.
> 
> But I think now you will say that because I was not shamed in public, I didn't suffer any consequences.


Your husband is attempting to swallow all the pain you caused him and carry this whole burden alone because he's a very good man and wants to minimize the damage that you 100% caused. Too bad it won't work for him. It's eating away at his soul this very minute. He thinks he can swallow it but that never ever works. It just makes it worse in the long run. He needs to unburden himself and you need to take the burden and give full disclosure and exposure of the whole thing. Until then any attempt at R is just a sham and is doomed to failure in the long run. The truth really will set you free. OM's loyal GF deserves better. She deserves to know the man she's with is willing to lie to her AND cheat with a married woman. That's really low.

You might be able to fix this but you have to take the burden off your husband. He's the biggest victim in all this and he's swallowing all the pain. Totally unfair to him. If you care about him, ease his pain.


----------



## manticore

No-redemption said:


> But I think now you will say that because I was not shamed in public, I didn't suffer any consequences.


*No I think you are the one who is not getting it *(so I have to agree that you are little selfcentered and doing everything about you)

*To my standarts you fit the description of the Little % of cases that are worth to support to reconcilation* (less than 5% of infidelity cases):

- you were willing to cut inmediattly all sort of communications with the OM
- you agreed with all the conditions impposed by the BS
- You never pretended to leave your BS or family fo the OM.
- You were willing to enforce consequences for the OM if requested
- You have oinvestigated for ways to heal your BS, and are willing to stand his lashing for the sake of R.

But your case have some peculiarities related to your culture and profession.

see the following is an extract from the guide to understand a begin to heal the BS *"Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners."* (post number 3 http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html):

_INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”_

_BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal._

*ends quote*

See is a natural response from our gender to want to literaly beat to death the OM, less that 100 years ago in some countries as Japan and USA it was still legal to kill the OM if you found him in the act with your spouse (in fact still is but know they cover it as temporal insanity).

But in our civil society now days doing something like that would ruin the BS and the BS's family lives, so what it has been inplemented is the enforcing of consequences, and the OM exposure in one of the principal tactics that is used now days.

there are many examples of that here on TAM but I will name the more representative at my perspective:
*
Yours was a 8 months affair, the user "somedaydig"'s wife "Regret" had a almost 5 years affair* she was going throug a depresive period when the OM appered and she managed to have her affair secret for almost 5 years, for her the OM was like a way of destroying the rutine, like a drug, a distraction form her day to day life she never wanted to be with him or leave her husband for him, they didn't chat or shared tehir lives it was purely sex, when the BS found about the affair and she realized the severity of her acts just like you she was willing to do everything to acchive forgivness, and what her BS request was (besides her total disclosure of the affair, no contact with OM, and all the actions you have taken) to give her all the datails nad help to literaly demolish the OM's live, the OM was a succesfully legal partner in a big firm, with a loyal wife, and a good position in society, after "Somedaydig" went after him with all the information from his wife, he lost his job, his wife divorced him, and he ended living with his parents, for Dig that retribution helped him to begin his R knowing that his wife helped him to get some sort of justice, showing that in the end she was really on his side (his words in a way)

you case however, your BS have no opportunity of retribution (not even in our civil ways), he had no chance to project his anger towards the OM, *even worst* the OM instead of punished got rewarded, what did you think it happened to all that anger and bitterness?, yes instead of projecting it, and looking an scape towards the OM, it was directed to you.

If the Om would have been exposed an enforced to consequences, his social, profesional standing and family (for your particular circumstances), would be ruined, so his only way to mantain his sanity and dignity was focusing all to you, he in his mind probably is divorced, that is why he built a new room for him, that is why he acts as if both of you are now separated, is his way to impose his own worth as he can't do it any other way without ruining his profesional and social life, how else can he tell himself he is not doormat fool?, how else can he look himself in the mirror without thinking that he has no guts and that his OM is laughting at him out there?, how else can he regain a little respect for what it was done to him?.

and that is why I don't think he will be able to forgive you.

A shame, if your circumstances were other probably you would have a good shot to a succesfuly R.


----------



## chaos

As bad as your husband's rejection was to your attempt to have sex with him, you must try establish some sort of physical contact with him. Try something small, like Dogbert suggested and see what his reaction is. But do not try to go beyond that to avoid emotionally overwhelming him. Repeat the process. Hopefully,with time, your husband's aversion to you will give way to desire for you.


----------



## No-redemption

KingwoodKev said:


> He needs to unburden himself and you need to take the burden and give full disclosure and exposure of the whole thing. Until then any attempt at R is just a sham and is doomed to failure in the long run. The truth really will set you free.


I have told my husband everything. The very reason I had the affair, I told him. He knows how long it was, how many times (I was not able to give exact number but an approximate one), what happened during the affair, what I was thinking (pure lust, I admitted), what we talked about.....

I never did anything extraordinary with the guy that I didn't do with my husband except one or two instances which I will not reveal because I understand people here are very bitter. It will give them another reason to lash. And those one - two things are not sexual in actual sense, so it is not possible for me to recreate that with my husband, should he choose to again be sexual with me.

You see, my sexual relationship with my husband was equally lusty and chemistry was off the charts, if not more. 



> OM's loyal GF deserves better. She deserves to know the man she's with is willing to lie to her AND cheat with a married woman. That's really low.


its been 3.5 years since we last talked (and that too professional). I am certainly not going to hound his gf (I don't even know if they are in relationship anymore).



> If you care about him, ease his pain.


I care about my husband very much. My past actions may show otherwise but I know and God knows its true.

I see him hurt everyday even when he is silent. When he used to shout at me, that hurt was so much visible. It breaks my heart to know that I am the reason.

I don't know if people are intentionally choosing to ignore my previous posts but I have stated clearly that its been 2 years since our communication has broken down completely except for HOUSEHOLD and CHILDREN. 

Thats the very reason I came here, to get an understanding that how I can restart that communication. I so want to help him heal, do whatever it takes. People asking me to jump right back into MC, please tell me how can I do that before I restart our communication?

As for myself, I have been going to psychiatrist and I have gained some knowledge about my brokenness. But right now if I try to force my dear husband to any sort of therapy, I know what his response will be: YOU HAD AN AFFAIR AND YOU WANT ME TO GO TO A MENTAL CLINIC?


----------



## No-redemption

Thanks Manticore. I misunderstood you. I now understand what you mean. And I completely agree.


----------



## No-redemption

Mr Blunt said:


> Your chances of getting your marriage back like you want are slim to none and slim has probably left the building. You would-be very foolish to not start working on your plan B!


If all of you say is true, that my husband asks for a divorce when he feels he no longer needs me, I will give him that. As quickly and as kindly as possible.

As for me I will live out the rest of my life alone as punishment for my sins.

*I am going to suggest to you that you have a backup plan-B for yourself and your children.*

Why are you saying this?

If you think my husband doesn't care about our daughters and will hurt them, you are way out of line. I will never take any unilateral decision about our daughters without my husband's knowledge and consent.

My husband loves our daughters to death and they adore their papa.


----------



## Augusto

No-redemption said:


> You may choose to believe me or not but I immediately wanted to fire the guy. It was my husband who disagreed. And from his standpoint it was completely understandable.
> 
> Reacting in such a rash way would only have caused the guy to rataliate back. He would have told everyone in the office about the affair and that would have echoed to my family members and then his family members. Because despite my affair, the OM was competent professionally and there was no reason to fire him.
> 
> The whole thing would have caused a huge scandal that would have affected our daughters too. So it was my husband who proposed this arrangement. My husband is very practical practical and well respected in his circles. He didn't want anything that could harm his reputation and our daughters.
> 
> But the day after discovery, I stopped any personal contact with the guy and as soon as he was gone, I deleted his number from my phone and blocked him in Facebook and email IDs. And it has been that way ever since.
> 
> But I think now you will say that because I was not shamed in public, I didn't suffer any consequences.



Have you considered to cut your losses and realize the dream is gone and that a divorce is imminent?


----------



## Augusto

No-redemption said:


> If all of you say is true, that my husband asks for a divorce when he feels he no longer needs me, I will give him that. As quickly and as kindly as possible.
> 
> As for me I will live out the rest of my life alone as punishment for my sins.
> 
> *I am going to suggest to you that you have a backup plan-B for yourself and your children.*
> 
> Why are you saying this?
> 
> If you think my husband doesn't care about our daughters and will hurt them, you are way out of line. I will never take any unilateral decision about our daughters without my husband's knowledge and consent.
> 
> My husband loves our daughters to death and they adore their papa.


Take what you have learned and apply it to another possible marriage down the road. Why live in punishment? Yes you caused the problems. However if its done it done and you do have to move forward with your life. Like it or not this misery will effect your kids one way or another. Kids with the parents happier with newer spouses where the love would exist again is far better than a toxic environment you are possibly creating right now.


----------



## No-redemption

Augusto said:


> Have you considered to cut your losses and realize the dream is gone and that a divorce is imminent?


NO.


----------



## No-redemption

Augusto said:


> Take what you have learned and apply it to another possible marriage down the road. Why live in punishment? Yes you caused the problems. However if its done it done and you do have to move forward with your life. Like it or not this misery will effect your kids one way or another. Kids with the parents happier with newer spouses where the love would exist again is far better than a toxic environment you are possibly creating right now.


Again no. I will not remarry.

But thanks.


----------



## Augusto

No-redemption said:


> Again no. I will not remarry.
> 
> But thanks.


And if there is a divorce and your hubs remarries you will not give it another chance? It sounds like you are holding onto false hope. If you were to threaten divorce unless he came back to the marriage, what would he say?


----------



## No-redemption

Augusto said:


> And if there is a divorce and your hubs remarries you will not give it another chance? It sounds like you are holding onto false hope.


That will be his decision. I will stick to mine.



> If you were to *threaten* divorce unless he came back to the marriage, what would he say?


I have already answered this previously. Read before commenting.

And threaten my husband?! After what I have put him through?


----------



## holycowe

It's been 3.5 years already. I think you've already tried everything and it's not working. He needs help. If you think he won't go to IC or MC, and you two can't talk about this problem. Your best bet right now is just invite him here or just show him this thread. I guarantee you he'll make a move, either R or not. 
This's not a healthy way to live especially your children.


----------



## warlock07

No-redemption said:


> You may choose to believe me or not but I immediately wanted to fire the guy. It was my husband who disagreed. And from his standpoint it was completely understandable.


You were a boss that took advantage of your subordinate. Any other place, you would have been sued out of your ass and removed from the job yourself. 



Maybe your husband's issue is that he lost attraction to you as a person once he found out about your deception. had you been in other relationships before your husband, you must know about it.

And honestly from your posts, you come off as a very disingenuous and selfish. I am not attacking you for the sake of it. I think you are so selfish that you don't even know how bad it is. It was well and bearable when you were not cheating on him.


----------



## warlock07

> I have told my husband everything. The very reason I had the affair, I told him. He knows how long it was, how many times (I was not able to give exact number but an approximate one), what happened during the affair, what I was thinking (pure lust, I admitted), what we talked about.....


 I think the pure lust is you lying to yourself and minimizing what you did. You took the guy to your house and in your marriage bed.

You said you did things for him that were not sexual. You did that for 8 months and you ended it when you got caught. Calling it lust might help you feel better but no one buys it, even your husband.


----------



## owl6118

N-R, without giving away anything too identifying, can you give us more cultural context? Specifically, I'd like to know very broadly the culture you and your husband are from: South Asian, Asian, etc., and whether you are in your home country or live within a different culture from the one you were raised in or your community derives from, e.g. You are for the sake of argument South Asian but live in Western Europe or North America. 

This is not purient interest. It is something I would need to understand to try to really grasp the pressures which have encouraged your husband to choose the current situation as the best one available to him among the options he feels he has.


----------



## wmn1

manticore said:


> *No I think you are the one who is not getting it *(so I have to agree that you are little selfcentered and doing everything about you)
> 
> *To my standarts you fit the description of the Little % of cases that are worth to support to reconcilation* (less than 5% of infidelity cases):
> 
> - you were willing to cut inmediattly all sort of communications with the OM
> - you agreed with all the conditions impposed by the BS
> - You never pretended to leave your BS or family fo the OM.
> - You were willing to enforce consequences for the OM if requested
> - You have oinvestigated for ways to heal your BS, and are willing to stand his lashing for the sake of R.
> 
> But your case have some peculiarities related to your culture and profession.
> 
> see the following is an extract from the guide to understand a begin to heal the BS *"Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners."* (post number 3 http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html):
> 
> _INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
> Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”_
> 
> _BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal._
> 
> *ends quote*
> 
> See is a natural response from our gender to want to literaly beat to death the OM, less that 100 years ago in some countries as Japan and USA it was still legal to kill the OM if you found him in the act with your spouse (in fact still is but know they cover it as temporal insanity).
> 
> But in our civil society now days doing something like that would ruin the BS and the BS's family lives, so what it has been inplemented is the enforcing of consequences, and the OM exposure in one of the principal tactics that is used now days.
> 
> there are many examples of that here on TAM but I will name the more representative at my perspective:
> *
> Yours was a 8 months affair, the user "somedaydig"'s wife "Regret" had a almost 5 years affair* she was going throug a depresive period when the OM appered and she managed to have her affair secret for almost 5 years, for her the OM was like a way of destroying the rutine, like a drug, a distraction form her day to day life she never wanted to be with him or leave her husband for him, they didn't chat or shared tehir lives it was purely sex, when the BS found about the affair and she realized the severity of her acts just like you she was willing to do everything to acchive forgivness, and what her BS request was (besides her total disclosure of the affair, no contact with OM, and all the actions you have taken) to give her all the datails nad help to literaly demolish the OM's live, the OM was a succesfully legal partner in a big firm, with a loyal wife, and a good position in society, after "Somedaydig" went after him with all the information from his wife, he lost his job, his wife divorced him, and he ended living with his parents, for Dig that retribution helped him to begin his R knowing that his wife helped him to get some sort of justice, showing that in the end she was really on his side (his words in a way)
> 
> you case however, your BS have no opportunity of retribution (not even in our civil ways), he had no chance to project his anger towards the OM, *even worst* the OM instead of punished got rewarded, what did you think it happened to all that anger and bitterness?, yes instead of projecting it, and looking an scape towards the OM, it was directed to you.
> 
> If the Om would have been exposed an enforced to consequences, his social, profesional standing and family (for your particular circumstances), would be ruined, so his only way to mantain his sanity and dignity was focusing all to you, he in his mind probably is divorced, that is why he built a new room for him, that is why he acts as if both of you are now separated, is his way to impose his own worth as he can't do it any other way without ruining his profesional and social life, how else can he tell himself he is not doormat fool?, how else can he look himself in the mirror without thinking that he has no guts and that his OM is laughting at him out there?, how else can he regain a little respect for what it was done to him?.
> 
> and that is why I don't think he will be able to forgive you.
> 
> A shame, if your circumstances were other probably you would have a good shot to a succesfuly R.



yes I read that Regret and Somedaydig thread last year. The OM got crushed and rightfully so. I am not saying Regret got off easy and somehow Dig forgave her but she was an equal in that A and got off easier than OM. 

Why do i bring this up ? Because these Affairs are committed equally and right now, without exposure, another couple may be living a lie and even upon termination of marriages or relationships, both sides don't end up equally held to account and in this case, OP has suffered worse. Exposure here would have bene better


----------



## chaos

Since your cultural and religious differences differ from those in the west, have you consulted or gone to any marriage counselors in your location? Is it a mandatory requirerment for your husband to accompany you?


----------



## MovingAhead

My perspective for your husband...

He has lost his interest in you because of the DEPTHS of your betrayal. Not a one night fling or moment of weakness, but you seduced a younger man whom you had power over.

Divorce to him seems utterly against his persona because it is probably culturally unacceptable and if he did divorce you you would probably try to take him for every penny and greatly lessen the chancces of your daughters having a good future.

If you decide to divorce him, please make it well known publicly that the reason for your divorce was your betrayal of him for no justifiable reason and that he deserves better than you.

You want your husband's forgiveness but you honestly seem sorry that you got caught not that you did what you did. There is a huge contradiction there and your husband knows you better than anyone else except maybe your lover who you made fun of your husband with...

I am not being harsh. I am being realistic. I don't put rainbows on things.

I honestly think you need to practice doing the right thing although you get no benefit out of it. When you learn to do the right things for no other reason than they are the right things to do, not for personal gain, then you will start acting right and will become a much more attractive person.


----------



## bandit.45

> Why? What relevance does that have here?






vellocet said:


> You sure that's what you were getting at? This is what you said that prompted me to ask what the relevance is.
> 
> 
> 
> This, to me, is trying to assign "reason" to the WS's cheating.
> 
> It doesn't have anything to do with the success of him to heal AFTER finding out he had been cheated on since he doesn't know at that point.


Um...

I had to log back on and ask you this question Vellocet...

Who voted you in as the new TAM moderator?

I think you should keep your questions focused to the OP, and keep your trap shut about other posters questions. Their questions and theories are just as relevant as yours.


----------



## MountainRunner

No-redemption said:


> I have taken Affaircare and Graywolfs's advice about becoming my husband's best friend first:
> 
> Yesterday evening he came home very tired and with a lot of files in his hand. I asked him if everything was alright. He said the upcoming elections are putting too much strain on his office and the work has become more outdoor than indoor. On top of that the files need to be reviewed before Monday.
> 
> I quickly gave him a glass of cold water and fixed him some snack and tea. He asked me how was my day. I didn't want to add to his stress with my mental turmoil. So I said as usual. Then I offered him to help him with those file if he wanted. He smiled. So I said to him I may not know about tax structure much, but I file the tax returns for my own organization. So I may be of some help if he let me know what needs to be done with those files. He asked if this would hamper my work. I said absolutely not, I don't have very much on my hand right now. He then said "OK, that will be great".
> 
> So I left to let him rest.
> 
> I will be very busy this weekend.


*likes* Kewlness. Patience. I know you've been in this for a long time my friend, but be patient and ease off the gas.


----------



## No-redemption

To Owl....

I am South Asian living in my country of birth.


----------



## MountainRunner

No-redemption said:


> If all of you say is true, that my husband asks for a divorce when he feels he no longer needs me, I will give him that. As quickly and as kindly as possible.
> 
> As for me I will live out the rest of my life alone as punishment for my sins...


Have you told him as much? After D-Day, I gave my wife the choice to stay or leave the marriage. Of course I told her that I did not wish to end our relationship but I would honor any decision she makes.

As for your second statement there...Quit beating yourself up over it. As adulterers we already know what we did is/was reprehensible, but it doesn't makes us ogres. Like my counselor said when I was sitting on my "pity pot"..."What you did doesn't mean that you're a bad person, it just means you did a bad thing and sometimes even good people do bad things."


----------



## Dogbert

No-redemption said:


> To Owl....
> 
> I am South Asian living in my country of birth.


As chaos asked, have you gone to marriage counseling?


----------



## No-redemption

I will try to recreate the conversation as accurately as possible because this happened a long time ago....

Me (crying): I am sorry I hurt you. I lost my mind. I became mad. I will completely understand if you'll leave me?

Him (full of anger): Leave you? Oh yes, leave you and tell everyone what? That you became a lust filled w****? Did you even think of our daughters? Did you even think of me?

I am not going to divorce. You do it if you want to run off. But you are not taking my daughters. I would do everything in my power to stop that.

Me: Yes, yes. I did. I knew it was wrong. I am disgusted with myself.


After that there was many times I asked him if he wants to divorce he should. He should feel no obligation towards me. I don't deserve it.

He has repeatedly said "You are not getting that divorce"...


----------



## MountainRunner

No-redemption said:


> He has repeatedly said "You are not getting that divorce"...


To which "I" would say something to the effect of...

"Good, because I don't want that either. I want to be your partner. I want to be yours alone. I want to work toward that. Can we do that together?"

Just my .02


----------



## No-redemption

Dogbert said:


> As chaos asked, have you gone to marriage counseling?


Not yet. I asked my husband many times. His first response was "You f***** someone else and I have to go to mental clinic?"

I explained it was not talking about mental problems but marital problems. He said "Even my grandmother can listen to both sof our stories and decide who is right and who is wrong. You don't need to waste money for that".

After subsequent times he has repeated said just no. After that I stopped asking and accepted my predicament. It was 2 years ago.


----------



## MountainRunner

No-redemption said:


> Not yet. I asked my husband many times. His first response was "You f***** someone else and I have to go to mental clinic?"
> 
> I explained it was not talking about mental problems but marital problems. He said "Even my grandmother can listen to both sof our stories and decide who is right and who is wrong. You don't need to waste money for that".
> 
> After subsequent times he has repeated said just no. After that I stopped asking and accepted my predicament. It was 2 years ago.


Have you presented it in a way that he might take differently? Something like..."I hurt you. I know that. You're angry and hurt. Counseling might afford you an opportunity to work through that anger and pain. I want you to talk to me about your pain....NO MATTER HOW HURTFUL IT MAY BE, but I want to hear it from you."


----------



## just got it 55

No-redemption said:


> This was the best response I have read in any site.
> 
> The last time I tried initiating any type of body contact with my husband was 2 years ago.
> 
> That evening he came home in a very jolly mood. He was chatting about a funny incident. We were all laughing. I was so happy to see him happy. The girls were climbing all over him and he was jostling with them. Our house was an abode of joy that night.
> During dinner we were still having laughs. I thought maybe this was the night...
> 
> So when girls were asleep I tiptoed into his room. Went up in bed and started to rub his chest. The started kissing his neck. He woke up. He gave me a smile. And he gave me such a loving look. But immediately his face changed and suddenly he spat on my face....
> 
> I cannot even describe the bad taste and awfulness that I felt after that....
> 
> *Since then I dared not initiate any body contact with him. We talk, we stay civil. I never bring up the affair. He doesn't bring it up. We never talk about our feelings since that day.*


*
*
^^^^^^^
This !!!!
Just as egregious as the A itself Negotiated Limbo
You will forever be there

Listen NR, I was a POS WS
I am married to an absolute angel
Smart , pretty, sweet perfect in every way, a mother that set the gold standard.

But I still fvcked up we rug swept and lived in limbo for 20 years.
But I took the initiative to finally fix things and reconnected in every way first.

Then we worked on intimacy and it came blossomed beyond my wild expectations

Here is a reply to a V day e mail I sent her to start her day

“You make me feel more loved than ever. More confident in myself in all aspects of my life. Thank you for keeping the twinkle in my eyes”

All My Love Till The End of Time 

So you see it can be done I decided to make the effort or move on as my children (four) were now all adults and the college days were over and paid for.

Please don't wait 20 plus years like I did

I robbed both of us years of happiness by not having the courage to do what needed to be done

And as far as your H spitting in your face

*Inexcuseable*

Yes he is a broken man indeed help him help himself.

55


----------



## No-redemption

Honestly no. If I am able to restart our communication, I will try my best to put it as a safe place to discuss our feeling. His feelings. His anger towards me.


----------



## Dogbert

Why don't you go to marriage counseling by yourself? You're not the first nor last woman that has cheated on her husband. The marriage counselor may offer you some sound advice for you to use. It's worth a shot, don't you think?


----------



## owl6118

Thanks, N-R.

This is why I asked.

It seems very clear that your husband is in a trap of honor. On one horn of the trap, he operates in a cultural context in which he feels divorce would be an intolerable shame, a dishonor to himself and his daughters. On the other horn of the trap, forgiving you with no public shaming or censure--covering it up with you paying no price of shame--is equally dishonorable and intolerable. The only solution he sees available is to stay married and to never forgive or show you any honor.

In this context most of the advice for you to make the decision for both of you by leaving is not really very relevant. In the west it would be: it is a culturally sanctioned resolution of the situation. And I do think if nothing can change it would be psychologically better for you. But it does not help him. It would still leave him dishonored.

So here is my thinking on healing, FWIW. At TAM we talk alot about the difference between regret and remorse. Regret is a sincere but self-referential feeling. It is at its core about your own feelings. Remorse is about empathy. You feel remorse when you have deep understanding for the specific nature of the pain your choices caused to your harmed love one, and your grief for their pain is more real and more important to you than your own. 

The best way to show remorse is to be able to apologize, very specifically, for the specific nature of the pain you created.

So what I would encourage you to do is think as selflessly as you can about what your husband's world looks like from his perspective. I suspect his greatest unacknowledged pain is that in this trap of honor, he can neither escape or forgive without betraying his culture and its codes. If you were to apologize, directly, not for the affair, but specifically for placing him in this position--for having put him in a position in which he feels he cannot have both the happiness he deserves and his honor--I think you will have done much to help him heal. This is not about recovering your marriage. It is about what you can de to help him feel less utterly alone in his pain. Validation, validation of the worst pain in a way that shows real empathy, is the single biggest thing you could give him.


----------



## No-redemption

Dogbert said:


> Why don't you go to marriage counseling by yourself?


Can you do that? I honestly didn't know. I will check.


----------



## Thundarr

warlock07 said:


> I think the pure lust is you lying to yourself and minimizing what you did. You took the guy to your house and in your marriage bed.


How is pure lust viewed as her minimizing anything? Pure lust is a horrible reason to cheat. Many cheaters make up stories about falling in love to avoid having to admit an affair was pure lust.


----------



## No-redemption

owl6118 said:


> Thanks, N-R.
> 
> This is why I asked.
> 
> It seems very clear that your husband is in a trap of honor. On one horn of the trap, he operates in a cultural context in which he feels divorce would be an intolerable shame, a dishonor to himself and his daughters. On the other horn of the trap, forgiving you with no public shaming or censure--covering it up with you paying no price of shame--is equally dishonorable and intolerable. The only solution he sees available is to stay married and to never forgive or show you any honor.
> 
> In this context most of the advice for you to make the decision for both of you by leaving is not really very relevant. In the west it would be: it is a culturally sanctioned resolution of the situation. And I do think if nothing can change it would be psychologically better for you. But it does not help him. It would still leave him dishonored.
> 
> So here is my thinking on healing, FWIW. At TAM we talk alot about the difference between regret and remorse. Regret is a sincere but self-referential feeling. It is at its core about your own feelings. Remorse is about empathy. You feel remorse when you have deep understanding for the specific nature of the pain your choices caused to your harmed love one, and your grief for their pain is more real and more important to you than your own.
> 
> The best way to show remorse is to be able to apologize, very specifically, for the specific nature of the pain you created.
> 
> So what I would encourage you to do is think as selflessly as you can about what your husband's world looks like from his perspective. I suspect his greatest unacknowledged pain is that in this trap of honor, he can neither escape or forgive without betraying his culture and its codes. If you were to apologize, directly, not for the affair, but specifically for placing him in this position--for having put him in a position in which he feels he cannot have both the happiness he deserves and his honor--I think you will have done much to help him heal. This is not about recovering your marriage. It is about what you can de to help him feel less utterly alone in his pain. Validation, validation of the worst pain in a way that shows real empathy, is the single biggest thing you could give him.


Thank you very much. Reading this really makes me sad for him. How could I have ever done this to him?


----------



## Thundarr

No-redemption said:


> After that there was many times I asked him if he wants to divorce he should. He should feel no obligation towards me. I don't deserve it.
> 
> He has repeatedly said "You are not getting that divorce"...
> 
> 
> 
> MountainRunner said:
> 
> 
> 
> To which "I" would say something to the effect of...
> 
> "Good, because I don't want that either. I want to be your partner. I want to be yours alone. I want to work toward that. Can we do that together?"
> 
> Just my .02
Click to expand...

I agree this MountainRunner. If you guys are both going to stay in this then that's got to be your approach in my opinion. We know that 3 1/2 years is not enough time. Maybe there's some amount of time where he looks back and says you know it's been X years and she's still here trying so I'm going to as well. Could be a symbolic number like something greater than the time you were married before the affair? Who knows.


----------



## bandit.45

No-redemption said:


> Can you do that? I honestly didn't know. I will check.


You should be doing everything...EVERYTHING... you can to make sure you change and grow and fix the fvcked up aspects of your personality that allowed you to have crap for boundaries and cheat on a man who professed to love and lust for. 

So yes...go to individual counseling. And get a counselor who will make you do the work on yourself you need to do. Don't get some new age wimp who will tell you all the soft things you want to hear. 

You fvcked up big time, and YOU need to fix yourself before you can hope to fix your husband's opinion of you. Its not enough to be loving and affectionate and being a good mom to his kid. 

I think your husband wants to see verifiable, measurable changes in you. All you have done is talked. Talk means very little to a guy. If you can go to counseling weekly, do the work, and demonstrate true changes in your actions and behavior, this may cause your husband to take a renewed interest in you. He may grow to see you as someone he can trust with his heart again. 

And even if he doesn't, even if on your DD's 18th birthday he follows her out the door, divorces you and moves on... even if that happens, all the work you would be doing would make you a better person overall and a more reliable partner to any future man you may get involved with.


----------



## Roselyn

No Redemption: Woman here, 57 years of age, professional career woman, and ongoing 35 years of marriage. My mother was Asian and father American. You are South Asian and your husband is a public figure and intertwined with political figures. Your marriage was arranged so that both families will benefit, politically and financially. You were placed in a pedestal for others to follow in your families since the beginning of your marriage.

You have two daughters in a country where women are expected to behave in specific roles, unlike western counterparts. You and your husband's actions will have ramifications on any liaisons that your daughters will have in their future. Your husband is protecting the futures of your daughters and members of your families.

Your husband has elected to hide your infidelity as shame in the scandal will cause suffering for your families. He will not divorce you. He resents and despises you. Yes, your punishment is a lifetime with him. In your country, you will play the role of a wife and will never be the wife to your husband as you once was.

You need to accept your present role and work on your mind. If you stay in your marriage, accept your fate with dignity. You gambled your marriage and lost in the process. Your penalty is severe but it is the price of infidelity in your society.


----------



## MountainRunner

No-redemption said:


> Thank you very much. Reading this really makes me sad for him. How could I have ever done this to him?


How? That one is easy...Selfishness. We wanted that "fix" and went for it without thinking about the consequences. Please see my initial post where I say that "we" (as in us adulterers) have some serious character flaws and unless we work on them, we will continue to repeat those same mistakes...over and over and over again.

This is where IC may come in handy. I know it is helping me in the short time I've been going. Of course I told my counselor that before we address the fundamental roots of my character flaws, I need a bit of "triage" to address what I am feeling/experiencing...*RIGHT NOW*.


----------



## just got it 55

No-redemption said:


> Honestly no. If I am able to restart our communication, I will try my best to put it as a safe place to discuss our feeling. His feelings. His anger towards me.


NR my belief is that he is feeling anger in himself as well

He seems very conflicted

His ego his self worth and his inabiity to make the hard choice to D has also fueled this anger 

This it seems is what he should have done

By not wanting to expose and keep it all quiet is about the perseption of others about him as well as you.

I am sure it has alot to do with your girls knowing and he naturally want to protect them from the situation

Very conflicted indeed

55


----------



## MountainRunner

bandit.45 said:


> You should be doing everything...EVERYTHING... you can to make sure you change and grow and fix the fvcked up aspects of your personality that allowed you to have crap for boundaries and cheat on a man who professed to love and lust for.
> 
> So yes...go to individual counseling. And get a counselor who will make you do the work on yourself you need to do. Don't get some new age wimp who will tell you all the soft things you want to hear.


Wurd.


----------



## No-redemption

just got it 55 said:


> [/B]And as far as your H spitting in your face
> 
> *Inexcuseable*
> 
> Yes he is a broken man indeed help him help himself.
> 
> 55


I will let that go. That was him crying out in hurt and disgust. And honestly, I deserved far worse than he gave me for what I did.

As I said, he is a very high ranking government official. He has very influential reaches. He could have destroyed me in a divorce. And I would have fully deserved that.


----------



## Dogbert

Do your homework before you choose a counselor, individual and marriage, and find one who has experience helping couples with infidelity.


----------



## Dogbert

I think you may also benefit from the emotional support of other women who, like yourself, cheated on their husbands and who are truly remorseful for having done so. If you can find one of these groups, you may not feel alone anymore and they may give you good advice on how to help your husband to heal. Perhaps when you find a counselor, she may be able to point you to such a support group.


----------



## owl6118

No-redemption said:


> Thank you very much. Reading this really makes me sad for him. How could I have ever done this to him?


Sit with that thought for a day or two or more, N-R. Feel your way into that feeling. Explore in your imagination just how sad his situation is. When you have lived with it for a while, share your thoughts and reactions to him in a letter.

With the utmost respect to other posters, and knowing that I would agree with them 100% in another context, I do not think marriage counseling is a road availble to you. It has embedded in it too many western concepts of a marriage as a partnership of independent individuals and ideas about working on the individuals as atoms and the couple as an atom, a unit, apart from society.

For you, the key to getting your husband to open up to you at all is your acknowledging the essential loneliness of his predicament, the utter isolation he feels in his shame. That is something only you can do and it can only be done privately. A third party as mediator will not help, it only makes it worse.

I will be honest with you. Your husband is so far gone in his trap, the walls of his prison so high, that I do not know if you can help him save himself. Much less create a living marriage again. But you can certainly try, and you may be able to do a lot to mitigate his pain if not heal the marriage into what you want it to be.

For you as you, you seem to move fluidly among cultural constructs. I think individual counseling in the western mode for you could be very helpful in dealing with the stress and psychological disruption this years long limbo must have created in you.


----------



## tears

Hi No-redemption,

Your story resonates with mine on so many levels. I'll send you a pm.

Things may seem bleak now but if you show him that you love him in very specific ways, you will be able to reach reach out across the wall he has around his heart. What he's feeling is a set of emotions not unlike what most male Bs feel but that should not dissuade you from trying.

I teared up a little when I read the part where you opened up to him completely and he spat on you. I did the whole doll myself routine to try and seduce my husband only for him to lash out very much like yours except he did it with an acid tounge that completely brought me to face the reality of exactly what he thought about me. 

With a little bit of growing up, I now realise that what I thought of as my being completely vulnerable before him was viewed very differently by him.

You need to engage with him on an emotional level before you try to bring back the physical aspect. I know its frustrating but it'll help. You could start out with trying to engage in a conversation aside from the mundane. Ask him to help you out with something, make him feel important to you, show him that you trust his judgment. And show him little acts of kindness.

This may seem like manipulation to some but its not. You need to get to a point where you both can have an open conversation and you can show him in more than words that you're sorry. The sex will come back naturally and it will come to have a deeper meaning for
both of you and then you can concentrate on putting the fun back into your relationship. 

And don't give up hope. I came close so many times but right now we are in a place where we both feel safe in our relationship and it is worth it.

I'll send you a pm with more details


----------



## tears

And what he's doing is also a way of punishing himself and you. He's hurt and I know you understand but its up to you to try and pull the both of you out of what is the sum total of your affair and his reaction.

You may feel that stony exterior is impenetrable. I have a term for it, a "bottler". I know only too well because I married one. If he's anything at all like mine, appeals for therapy and counselling are a waste of time but that's alright. You just have to find other avenues and you can attend counselling on your own.


----------



## Doc Who

Tears??

Sorry to thread jack this OP, but how are you Tears??? Are you back with your ex?

End of threadjack


----------



## tears

We're doing great thanks. We did get back together (exclusively this time). It took a lot out of us, me. But in the end we decided to try it out and take it slow. But it really didn't take too long for us to be in it over our heads again. It just seemed too good to be true so I didn't post much. But we're in a good place now.

We still don't live together but we'll get there. There's really no pressure. He's still busy with work but I'm spending as much time as we can get. In fact, right now we're in a hotel for a couple of days, his job - it does come with benefits, he wanted me to go along and I was only too happy to oblige. Just the two of us and life seems to be getting better each day. I really couldn't ask for more. I'll probably get around to opening up my old thread to give you all the boring details In a few days when we get back home.

End tj/


----------



## thummper

I'm soooo happy for you two! :smthumbup:


----------



## turnera

No-redemption said:


> This is going to be my last response to you....
> 
> You have no intention of helping me. You only want to slam me to fulfill your personal vendetta against unfaithful spouses. You only come here to feed you voyeuristic fetish.
> 
> Honestly, I can get better advice in YahooAnswers than I get from you.


It's a shame you won't allow yourself to hear what people REALLY think about cheaters.

It sounds like you have just never really put any thought into what your husband is going through. AffairCare was right - you have to be a GOOD PARTNER to get him to ever be willing to trust you again. You haven't answered what you've done to change YOU.

And the fact that you lash out at people who question your integrity tells me you have never dealt with the reality - you have only dealt with YOUR suffering, YOUR unhappiness. If you were truly remorseful, you'd be agreeing with everyone and THEN asking what else you can do. Instead, you resort to anger and self-protection.

Why would he take a chance on that?


----------



## MovingAhead

OP is from Southeast Asia and the answers to her are very ethnocentric. The solutions for how things would be done in Occidental countries are quite different.

So, your husband won't give you a divorce. If I am not mistaken, this is because this would bring great dishonor to his and your families and the stigma will be carried onto the daughters thereby making it very difficult for them to get ahead as academics are very difficult to get into in Asian countries and the stigma your daughters would have if you divorced would greatly impair their ability to get ahead.

So your husband said you could run off. Would that not spare your daughters the dishonor and you would carry that. You don't want the divorce because it would make your life extremely difficult if I am not mistaken. Your husband stated you could run off. In that way you would get all of the dishonor and shame and your daughters would be free of it...

If I am not mistaken, your husband is thinking of your daughter's future and is sacrificing for them. He is doing what a good parent would do... Please correct me where I am wrong. 

I still see you wanting to jist get out of the mess you created. Please enlighten us as to how this can be done without causing your daughters great problems.

Westerners hear your story and feel like you are a bit of a victim here, but your husband really is the victim if I am not wrong. I am not ethnocentric. I don't believe we can affect judgement to you that wouldn't actually be harsh to your family.

Your husband referred to therapy as a mental clinic. There is stigma in your country for this isn't there?


----------



## MattMatt

tears said:


> Hi No-redemption,
> 
> Your story resonates with mine on so many levels. I'll send you a pm.
> 
> Things may seem bleak now but if you show him that you love him in very specific ways, you will be able to reach reach out across the wall he has around his heart. What he's feeling is a set of emotions not unlike what most male Bs feel but that should not dissuade you from trying.
> 
> I teared up a little when I read the part where you opened up to him completely and he spat on you. I did the whole doll myself routine to try and seduce my husband only for him to lash out very much like yours except he did it with an acid tounge that completely brought me to face the reality of exactly what he thought about me.
> 
> With a little bit of growing up, I now realise that what I thought of as my being completely vulnerable before him was viewed very differently by him.
> 
> You need to engage with him on an emotional level before you try to bring back the physical aspect. I know its frustrating but it'll help. You could start out with trying to engage in a conversation aside from the mundane. Ask him to help you out with something, make him feel important to you, show him that you trust his judgment. And show him little acts of kindness.
> 
> This may seem like manipulation to some but its not. You need to get to a point where you both can have an open conversation and you can show him in more than words that you're sorry. The sex will come back naturally and it will come to have a deeper meaning for
> both of you and then you can concentrate on putting the fun back into your relationship.
> 
> And don't give up hope. I came close so many times but right now we are in a place where we both feel safe in our relationship and it is worth it.
> 
> I'll send you a pm with more details


Bless you for stepping in, Tears! Your wisdom and experience will be of great value.:smthumbup:


----------



## KingwoodKev

Dogbert said:


> Do your homework before you choose a counselor, individual and marriage, and find one who has experience helping couples with infidelity.


Good advice. Our MC is no good. She keeps making the theme of each visit that it's my fault. Even my WS said "I think she's a man hater."


----------



## Dogbert

KingwoodKev said:


> Good advice. Our MC is no good. She keeps making the theme of each visit that it's my fault. Even my WS said "I think she's a man hater."


*Fire her*. Those kinds of "counselors" only end up doing more harm.


----------



## arbitrator

KingwoodKev said:


> Good advice. Our MC is no good. She keeps making the theme of each visit that it's my fault. Even my WS said "I think she's a man hater."


*Kinda deja vu!

Before my rich, skanky XW ever met me, she had this lady from the Spring Branch area of Houston(West Side) that she had been using for years as her IC! Well, right after our nuptials, XW brought this gal on as our MC, thinking it may be good to have an MC right after marrying to help keep us both honest!

Well, as fate would have it, our MC alwayssised with the XW against me, because XW always paid the counseling bill. She treated me OK, only up to the point where she was ready to make me the "whipping boy." 

She even was bold enough to tell my XW that it was rather apparent that I had no conception of what wealth really was. That really made me feel special! 

But "the gun that shot the party hog" was when the MC sided with the resident skank about her very own kids using meth and pot, and agreeing that if they used the stuff in a "controlled environment," meaning our home, that it was quite OK, and that I was being overly "self-justified" in wanting to report them to the authorities! I told her that since she seemed to be an ardent supporter of Timothy Leary, that she could just drive up to our home, pass out the stash to her thugs, and then help the "skank" keep watch over them!

She didn't really like hearing that terse comment of mine in the least! *


----------



## farsidejunky

Great to hear from you and see your progress, Tears.

I think it is great you are lending advice to this poster.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> Your chances of getting your marriage back like you want are slim to none and slim has probably left the building. You would-be very foolish to not start working on your plan B!
> 
> *By no-redemption*
> If all of you say is true, that my husband asks for a divorce when he feels he no longer needs me, I will give him that. As quickly and as kindly as possible.
> 
> As for me I will live out the rest of my life alone as punishment for my sins.
> 
> I am going to suggest to you that you have a backup plan-B for yourself and your children.
> *
> Why are you saying this?*
> 
> If you think my husband doesn't care about our daughters and will hurt them, you are way out of line. I will never take any unilateral decision about our daughters without my husband's knowledge and consent.
> 
> My husband loves our daughters to death and they adore their papa.


I never said anything that insinuates that your husband does not care about your daughters. I am sure that he cares very much for his daughters and I do not understand where you got that he did not from my posts.

The reason that I said that


> I am going to suggest to you that you have a backup plan-B for yourself and your children


.
One of the reasons that I suggested for you to get a plan B was that your husband may divorce you then where will you be? Since reading more recent posts it seems that your husband is not going to divorce you but it is not because he wants to have a relationship with you like in the past. His honor and position are few reasons that he will not divorce but the main one is probably that he does not want his daughters to not be 100% in his home and life. His refusing to divorce you is not because he wants to have a relationship with you like he did pre-A.

Another reason for your plan B is that you have told us that you are “broken” going back as far as your college crush. *Your plan B should include you getting that brokeness fixed as much as possible because if you do not you will not be a good wife for anyone.*

Thirdly, you should work on your plan B because you have stated that you love your daughters and would do anything for them.* Your daughters need a mother that is stable and strong and you are neither right now.* Your guilt and shame has kept you down.

Your daughters also need a mother that does not spends too much time trying to get her husband back so that you can have a “beautiful future with your husband” * Anytime taken away from you getting better with your brokenness and your beaten down state will take away from getting stronger and more stable for your children and yourself.*. You cannot have any success with that “beautiful future” as long as your husband despises you, spits on you, and has not had any intimacy with your for over THREE YEARS!

*There is about a 100% chance that your can get better in those areas you have told us about yourself if you give plan B a very great effort for a good amount of time*. The chances of you getting that “beautiful future” with your husband is ZERO percent as long as he holds to his resentment and despising you. This is your current reality and that is what I meant by your getting a plan B to better yourself.

*You will be doing yourself and your children a great disservice if you do not diligently work on your plan B*


----------



## Forest

I wanted to say that I am very impressed by the last couple of responses from Owl6118. He/She seems to understand this problem within the context of the culture NoRedemption is living. I believe that is the key thing here.

This husband simply CANNOT accept this fate. I think you will need to look within your local culture for solutions. Any solution that might work may seem foreign or unusual to most of the Westerners here. I sense that you will have to greatly subject yourself to your husband to have any hope of reconciling.

Whether this is right or wrong, acceptable or unacceptable is for you to decide. What you must do is find out if there is ANY means by which he may accept you again. If so, what? Is it something you are willing to undergo?

You may be in a situation where you have to either lay your future in his hands, and abide by it; or remove yourself.


----------



## Roselyn

Most posters here are advising from the context of western culture; No-Redemption is from a South Asian culture where family honor is of extreme importance. She has violated the sacred rules of the family in her society. She will dishonor not only her husband and daughters, but both families.

Marriage counseling and psychiatric therapy are viewed negatively in these cultures. Her husband would rather that she removed herself from the family, but she is not removing herself. One solution is to seek the counsel of elders in her family, but then she will have to disclose herself. I don't think that her husband wants the family to know what she had done. He would be shamed as he would be viewed as a lesser man as his wife pursued another man for sex.

She is doing what she can only do as of this time. She can only hope for his forgiveness.


----------



## ConanHub

So fvcking around on your spouse in OPs culture can destroy the reputation of her daughters as well? WTF were you thinking?!?

I still think you need your head examined! Not interested in your marriage at all. What can you do to preserve the honor of your husband and daughters?

If you have an answer, do it. Stop thinking about your satisfaction in this situation. You really threatened your daughters chance at a future. Stop being selfish and do what is necessary for your daughters and husband to be well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thundarr

ConanHub said:


> What can you do to preserve the honor of your husband and daughters?
> 
> If you have an answer, do it. Stop thinking about your satisfaction in this situation. You really threatened your daughters chance at a future. Stop being selfish and do what is necessary for your daughters and husband to be well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think her answer to perserve the honor of her husband and daughters is to stay in the marriage and act like everything is okay to the outside world and I think she knows that's not a great answer. If she actually had a better answer then she wouldn't have this thread at TAM asking for answers and suggestions.


----------



## ConanHub

Thundarr said:


> I think her answer to perserve the honor of her husband and daughters is to stay in the marriage and act like everything is okay to the outside world and I think she knows that's not a great answer. If she actually had a better answer then she wouldn't have this thread at TAM asking for answers and suggestions.


She knew her culture better than most of us. I have zero sympathy for anyone that endangers their children, especially to feed their god damned crotch monster!

I have a very hard line when it comes to harming kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

Maybe she can learn something here to make it better for her family. Her wants certainly shouldn't be her priority.


----------



## tom67

ConanHub said:


> She knew her culture better than most of us. I have zero sympathy for anyone that endangers their children, especially to feed their god damned crotch monster!
> 
> I have a very hard line when it comes to harming kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Maybe she can learn something here to make it better for her family. Her wants certainly shouldn't be her priority.


Can't argue with that just sayin.


----------



## manticore

Roselyn said:


> Most posters here are advising from the context of western culture; No-Redemption is from a South Asian culture where family honor is of extreme importance. She has violated the sacred rules of the family in her society. She will dishonor not only her husband and daughters, but both families.
> 
> Marriage counseling and psychiatric therapy are viewed negatively in these cultures. Her husband would rather that she removed herself from the family, but she is not removing herself. One solution is to seek the counsel of elders in her family, but then she will have to disclose herself. I don't think that her husband wants the family to know what she had done. He would be shamed as he would be viewed as a lesser man as his wife pursued another man for sex.
> 
> She is doing what she can only do as of this time. She can only hope for his forgiveness.


I have read both your posts related to this issue, and I get your point, is a very difficult situation, asian cultures are even more severe than Latin cultures when it comes to women infidelity, more for the honor factor that is so arraiged in the culture, if a remember correctly a little more than 100 years ago in some asian countries existed the revenge law that was a legal permission that was granted by goverment to seek revenge one someone who caused a big dishonor towards you or your family (normally more related to revenge against someone who murdered a first line family member).

If the dynamics are exactly as you say, then is even more understable why he is ruling out divorce as an option (originaly I thought it just would harm his political career and social standing which is bad enough to withold divorce, but I didn't know this could go as far as affecting her daughters future marking them as unsuitable for certain social conventions), in latin cultures if someone is high ranking official and somethig like OP's case happens, yes it could harm his career but normally the daughters would be seen with simphaty (pretty much like caucasian cultures).

But even if I understands what the Bs is trying to do, it is still subject to many uncontrollable factors, I mean nothing stops the OM from running his mouth (I mean after all op relocated him in his current job, which means she knows people there, and I am guessing that as big is the dishonor for the family and the Bs, also as big would be the ego boost for the OM to brag about seducing the wife a high ranking official), or if the GF founds, nothing stops her from exposing OP to everyone in retribution, by now is very possible alot of people in their circle knows the truth but is the classic "whispering secret that everybody knows" (my point is that maybe what the Bs is doing could be pretty much useless, lets hope that is not the case)

It seems that in this particular case the best the BS can hope to acchive is overcome his anger find a way to acchive happiness with the Ws again as pretty much any other option is a lose-lose situation, but of course this is more easily say that done, a really sad case indeed.


----------



## Thundarr

ConanHub said:


> So fvcking around on your spouse in OPs culture can destroy the reputation of her daughters as well? WTF were you thinking?!?
> 
> I still think you need your head examined! Not interested in your marriage at all. What can you do to preserve the honor of your husband and daughters?
> 
> If you have an answer, do it. Stop thinking about your satisfaction in this situation. You really threatened your daughters chance at a future. Stop being selfish and do what is necessary for your daughters and husband to be well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> Thundarr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think her answer to perserve the honor of her husband and daughters is to stay in the marriage and act like everything is okay to the outside world and I think she knows that's not a great answer. If she actually had a better answer then she wouldn't have this thread at TAM asking for answers and suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> 
> She knew her culture better than most of us. I have zero sympathy for anyone that endangers their children, especially to feed their god damned crotch monster!
> 
> I have a very hard line when it comes to harming kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Maybe she can learn something here to make it better for her family. Her wants certainly shouldn't be her priority.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Dude you suggested she do things that she's trying to do but you didn't give any insight into how she might do that differently. That's what I pointed out. Your next response shows that you don't care what she does and you're just angry at her so why did you act like you were trying to help in the first place. Just rant and don't pretend to give a crap or fake advice. It's disingenuous.


----------



## KingwoodKev

Roselyn said:


> Most posters here are advising from the context of western culture; No-Redemption is from a South Asian culture where family honor is of extreme importance. She has violated the sacred rules of the family in her society. She will dishonor not only her husband and daughters, but both families.
> 
> Marriage counseling and psychiatric therapy are viewed negatively in these cultures. Her husband would rather that she removed herself from the family, but she is not removing herself. One solution is to seek the counsel of elders in her family, but then she will have to disclose herself. I don't think that her husband wants the family to know what she had done. He would be shamed as he would be viewed as a lesser man as his wife pursued another man for sex.
> 
> She is doing what she can only do as of this time. She can only hope for his forgiveness.


Sounds like a culture with actual values and morals. Not like what western culture has become which is reminiscent of Rome just before their fall. We celebrate decadence and deviance like they're wonderful virtuous values.


----------



## Thundarr

ConanHub said:


> She knew her culture better than most of us. I have zero sympathy for anyone that endangers their children, especially to feed their god damned crotch monster!
> 
> I have a very hard line when it comes to harming kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Maybe she can learn something here to make it better for her family. Her wants certainly shouldn't be her priority.
> 
> 
> tom67 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't argue with that just sayin.
Click to expand...

Except that is has nothing to do with the comment he quoted.


----------



## Daniel.

Well unless OP's a celebrity, divorce is very frowned upon in most part of Asia, except probably the socially liberal ones like Singapore/HK.

Your H thinks of the marriage like a business deal, no emotional attachment, no sex, just 2 people co-parenting and living together for the sake of the children. He knows he'll lose the children since most probably they will live with you. Other reason he doesn't is because the social inconvenience, he's probably afraid that people think that he cheats when it's actually otherwise.

I had lived this for 2 years, differents are we slept in the same bedroom, no PA from me, and sex was still there however rare, but zero communication, your h accepted your offer to help him with the tax thing and i had to found out my wife got promotion because her aunt sent a congratulation gift basket . It was awful but i stay because i still love her, even after another dday.

I don't know what's going on inside your husband mind but you have the best guess. Maybe he's quiet because he's still hurting OR because he actually has moved on from you. Almost all of the post here assume that he's still hurting, but what if he's actually done with you romantically ? Can you accept the arrangement that he proposed, marriage but no wife/husband relationship ?


----------



## manticore

Roselyn said:


> Her husband would rather that she removed herself from the family, but she is not removing herself.


Care to explain this?, after all if she removes herself from the family explanations would have to be given to all the other members of the family(besides her husband) and eventually to the society around them anyway and the infidelity topic would have to be mentioned, unless they lie, but If the culture is as you says, I don't think there is really a good reason to divorce where at least the husband can end with his social standing unnafected, in which case the path she is taking is the only one available where his husband may have a shot to eventually find some kind of solace without seeing affected his, laboral, social and family status.

Not really defending her, but I really don't see other way around of this situation.


----------



## EleGirl

ThePheonix said:


> wmn1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you for firing the young lad and going no contact.
> 
> 
> 
> A trial/labor lawyers dream come true. Like they say down in bayous , " Dat boug and his lawyer shownuf could clean her plow in court. He could din tell um merci beaucoup, it was fun doin bidness widja, and I won't spend it all in one place."
Click to expand...

They live in South East Asia. I doubt those laws exit where they live.


----------



## ConanHub

Thundarr said:


> Dude you suggested she do things that she's trying to do but you didn't give any insight into how she might do that differently. That's what I pointed out. Your next response shows that you don't care what she does and you're just angry at her so why did you act like you were trying to help in the first place. Just rant and don't pretend to give a crap or fake advice. It's disingenuous.


I advised her to get her head examined and that still stands. She knows the intricacies of her culture far better than me or you. She knew what her blatant stupidity could cost her children and she knows better than anyone on this side of the pond how to preserve the honor of her family. If that means continuing as is then she better damn well keep it up and never b1tch about the cost. She endangered her daughters and she has forced her H to pay the price with her.

Maybe her H will eventually want her again but parading herself naked or any other tactic is likely to fail. Her H is stuck otherwise she would be divorced and decimated.

OP should work to improve herself and to improve the chances for her daughters future success.

If she pours her life into the betterment of her daughters it will probably do more to raise her in her husbands eyes than anything.

BTW. Anyone doesn't like my vitriol, don't fvck with children. My sense of humor ends about a thousand miles before harming children starts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roselyn

manticore said:


> Care to explain this?, after all if she removes herself from the family explanations would have to be given to all the other members of the family(besides her husband) and eventually to the society around them anyway and the infidelity topic would have to be mentioned, unless they lie, but If the culture is as you says, I don't think there is really a good reason to divorce where at least the husband can end with his social standing unnafected, in which case the path she is taking is the only one available where his husband may have a shot to eventually find some kind of solace without seeing affected his, laboral, social and family status.
> 
> Not really defending her, but I really don't see other way around of this situation.


Manticore: If a woman removes herself from the Asian family, oftentimes explanations can be made simply that the couple was incompatible. At times, a woman removes herself from the scene to help elderly aunts or some distant relative. However, in this case when infidelity is on the woman's side, the shame is at the core of the family. Her infidelity is beyond redemption in her society's circle. This is why she chosed the name of No-Redemption. 

We don't comprehend many cultural ways in our western world. The roles of women in Asia are defined, especially in prominent families. The sins of the mothers are passed down to the daughters; hence, daughters are judged based on the actions of their mothers before them. Her husband elected to suffer rather than jeopardize his daughters' future. He's carrying his "world" in his shoulders. Her infidelity is a nightmare to her own family besides her husband's.


----------



## No-redemption

Wow! Lots of responses.

I am sorry guys I was not able to respond to them in time. I said I was very busy this weekend.

Some of the responses made me cry.

Thank you Roselyn. My deepest gratitudes for helping me and my husband in this crisis. If I ever meet you in person, I would like to say these thing again to you.

And thanks to everyone who have responded to my plea of help. 
I will try to answer your question now. But first I would like to start on a happy note.


----------



## No-redemption

Last night was a night I will remember forever.

There is a joke in our country that if you do very good deeds in your past life, you get rewarded with a government job in your present life 

But next time anyone tells me this, he/she is gonna get an earful from me.

I mean the paperwork my husband deals with is so monotonous repititive and exhausting that I almost wanted to shout "Oh God! Not again! How many times do I have to do this?"

I don't know how my dear husband continues to do this day after day and still keep his sanity.
LOL!

At the end, I said "Ohhh! I need some air. I am going to the roof. Will you come?"
He instantly replied "Me too. Lets go".

Before going to the roof I took the bottle of scotch, a pack of cigarettes, an ice bucket and two glasses.

He was surprised. I smiled and said "What? I need this!"
And he gave me a wicked (and oh so sexy!) smile and said "Ofcourse you do".

I poured for both of us and we sat down. We started chatting. Not personal stuff but about the current state of affairs, the upcoming elections, our opinions of the political parties, etc. We both are very passionate about such topics and highly opinionated.

But words flowed easily between us. We sat there for almost an hour and a half drinking and smoking. In the end he said that we should go down as it was late.

As we were going down he suddenly said "Thanks for the help". I came near him and held his hand (our first affectionate body contact in almost 2 years) and said "I liked it very much, spending time with you." I don't know but maybe it was the alcohol that gave me the courage.

But most importantly he didn't flinch like he used to. He let me hold his hand. Again maybe it was the alcohol that brought some of his walls down.

I literally had to summon all strength in my mind and body to stop myself from kissing his lips. 

As we parted, I was elated and jumping in joy in my mind. My heart was racing so fast that I was not able to sleep properly.

I am so happy today!


----------



## Roselyn

No Redemption: Continue to do the good things that you are doing. Take on volunteer duties to give back to your community. When your husband sees the goodness in you, perhaps he will see an admirable person.

Never initiate any sexual overtures. You will turn back the time, so avoid this scenario. Make your family the priority in your life. Seek the wisdom of your elder women. They know a whole lot more than they let you on. Above all, give yourself self-respect and listen to others. Look around you and be grateful for what you have in life. You still have a life ahead of you.


----------



## No-redemption

owl6118 said:


> *For you as you, you seem to move fluidly among cultural constructs.* I think individual counseling in the western mode for you could be very helpful in dealing with the stress and psychological disruption this years long limbo must have created in you.


Thats because of my HR background. I have conducted many employee one-on-one counselling session aimed at improving employee motivation and core competencies. Thats why I am aware about such things.


----------



## No-redemption

tears said:


> Hi No-redemption,
> 
> Your story resonates with mine on so many levels. I'll send you a pm.
> 
> Things may seem bleak now but if you show him that you love him in very specific ways, you will be able to reach reach out across the wall he has around his heart. What he's feeling is a set of emotions not unlike what most male Bs feel but that should not dissuade you from trying.
> 
> I teared up a little when I read the part where you opened up to him completely and he spat on you. I did the whole doll myself routine to try and seduce my husband only for him to lash out very much like yours except he did it with an acid tounge that completely brought me to face the reality of exactly what he thought about me.
> 
> With a little bit of growing up, I now realise that what I thought of as my being completely vulnerable before him was viewed very differently by him.
> 
> You need to engage with him on an emotional level before you try to bring back the physical aspect. I know its frustrating but it'll help. You could start out with trying to engage in a conversation aside from the mundane. Ask him to help you out with something, make him feel important to you, show him that you trust his judgment. And show him little acts of kindness.
> 
> This may seem like manipulation to some but its not. You need to get to a point where you both can have an open conversation and you can show him in more than words that you're sorry. The sex will come back naturally and it will come to have a deeper meaning for
> both of you and then you can concentrate on putting the fun back into your relationship.
> 
> And don't give up hope. I came close so many times but right now we are in a place where we both feel safe in our relationship and it is worth it.
> 
> I'll send you a pm with more details


Thanks. Very much appreciated. I would very much love to know how was it that you were able to help you husband and open him up to you.


----------



## No-redemption

tears said:


> *And what he's doing is also a way of punishing himself and you.* He's hurt and I know you understand but its up to you to try and pull the both of you out of what is the sum total of your affair and his reaction.
> 
> *You may feel that stony exterior is impenetrable. I have a term for it, a "bottler". *I know only too well because I married one. If he's anything at all like mine, appeals for therapy and counselling are a waste of time but that's alright. You just have to find other avenues and you can attend counselling on your own.


Yes, he is punishing himself for the horrible things that I did. The punishment should only be for me. But he is suffering for my sins.

And I exactly know what you mean when you say a "bottler". Earlier, if he was stressed about anything, I would sense it and ask him. And immediately he would start ranting about the situation or a person. I would cheer him up with encouraging words and advice to deal with a situation. Then I would point a comical side to it and he would light up with laughter (I will brag this about me - I have a great sense of humour ).

But since discovery, I can sense him sad but if I asked him anything him would reply "Its nothing". Then silently go to his room and would only come out if it were for our daughters or for dinner. He would silently do his household chores when I can see plainly that he is struggling. But he would never speak a word of it to me.


----------



## No-redemption

Mr Blunt said:


> I never said anything that insinuates that your husband does not care about your daughters. I am sure that he cares very much for his daughters and I do not understand where you got that he did not from my posts.
> 
> The reason that I said that
> .
> One of the reasons that I suggested for you to get a plan B was that your husband may divorce you then where will you be? Since reading more recent posts it seems that your husband is not going to divorce you but it is not because he wants to have a relationship with you like in the past. His honor and position are few reasons that he will not divorce but the main one is probably that he does not want his daughters to not be 100% in his home and life. His refusing to divorce you is not because he wants to have a relationship with you like he did pre-A.
> 
> Another reason for your plan B is that you have told us that you are “broken” going back as far as your college crush. *Your plan B should include you getting that brokeness fixed as much as possible because if you do not you will not be a good wife for anyone.*
> 
> Thirdly, you should work on your plan B because you have stated that you love your daughters and would do anything for them.* Your daughters need a mother that is stable and strong and you are neither right now.* Your guilt and shame has kept you down.
> 
> Your daughters also need a mother that does not spends too much time trying to get her husband back so that you can have a “beautiful future with your husband” * Anytime taken away from you getting better with your brokenness and your beaten down state will take away from getting stronger and more stable for your children and yourself.*. You cannot have any success with that “beautiful future” as long as your husband despises you, spits on you, and has not had any intimacy with your for over THREE YEARS!
> 
> *There is about a 100% chance that your can get better in those areas you have told us about yourself if you give plan B a very great effort for a good amount of time*. The chances of you getting that “beautiful future” with your husband is ZERO percent as long as he holds to his resentment and despising you. This is your current reality and that is what I meant by your getting a plan B to better yourself.
> 
> *You will be doing yourself and your children a great disservice if you do not diligently work on your plan B*


Reading here I understood the actions I have taken are not sufficient. I honestly didn't know better. But I have decided some of the things I am going to do and let my husband know that I am doing them to improve myself. Here they are:

1) I will start writing a journal and will let my husband read it.
2) If I see my husband struggling in any way, I will not be passive anymore. I will actively ask him about it. He may rebuff me but I will persistently keep on doing this.
3) I know our household duties are divided but I will try to engage him more by making some of those duties common activities by asking for his help. I will also help him in his share of chores.
4) I will ask my psychiatrist if he can help me identify my character faults more clearly. If he can't give me a definite answer I will start looking for alternatives.
5) I will find a marriage counsellor and attend it myself. I will again ask my husband to join me. If he refuses, regardless I will let him know what was discussed in full honesty.
6) If he doesn't want to hear about the MC discussions, I will write them in letters and deliver it to him.
7) I would immediately let him know if my day-to-day schedule changes in any way. I will take a photo of where I am at and Whatsapp it to him so that he is sure I am there. I wouldn't let him linger in any sort of unsurity about me. I will forever be transparent to him from now on in every way.
8) I will start jogging and excercising in the morning again and invite him to join me.

Thank you.


----------



## Wolfman1968

No-redemption said:


> For some that asked....
> 
> My husband is an Income Tax Officer. He is a very high ranking government official.


Income Tax Officer = High Ranking? Obviously not in the U.S., then.


----------



## Dogbert

Great update N-R

I'm glad that the hand holding was well received by your husband. Hopefully the next hand holding will also be well received and of a longer duration. Baby steps N-R, baby steps.


----------



## No-redemption

ConanHub said:


> So fvcking around on your spouse in OPs culture can destroy the reputation of her daughters as well? WTF were you thinking?!?


I lost my mind. I became filled with lust and thrill of having a secret life. It blinded me to potential dangers for my daughters and my husband.

Please believe me, I never even thought about leaving my husband and daughter for that man. I couldn't imagine a life without them. During those 8 months I did not cut off sex from my husband. I was insatiable. I wanted both of them.

But my lust led me again and again to go to bed with that man



> *I still think you need your head examined!*


I have been going to a psychiatrist for these last 3 years. I have some answer. Absolute infatuation about someone and "past is golden" mentality. Looking to the past instead of the future.
But I have decided to ask my psychiatrist more direct questions about what is it that made me like this. Specific answers. If he can't tell me I will look for alternatives.


----------



## Suspecting2014

First of all I am sorry you are in this situation.

You should be more proactive not just about communicating with your 
husband but doing things to achieve the marriage you want. You should 
not be AFRAID anymore to say or do things to get your marriage back.

Consider 2 things:

1.- As he is not divorcing you and you are living like roommates, YOU 
GOT NOTHING ELSE TO LOSE.

2.- As you was the one that pursued the affair, you showed great 
initiative to achieve what you wanted (OM), once you got caught your 
apologised and begged but didn't shown that initiative to do try other 
things (I am not talking about effort as I believe you tried really 
hard) to give him back all you took (like the letter, the journal, do 
something special for him with your hands, etc). Sorry if I am wrong 
about it.

Your H is trapped in a unbalanced married and for his condition, as 
others have pointed out, all he can do is bear and swallow while 
rejecting you, He didnt even had the opportunity to punish the OM. You 
should find a way to make it up to him some how, that is why you need to 
be proactive and show iniciative.


Good luck


----------



## Suspecting2014

No-redemption said:


> Last night was a night I will remember forever.
> 
> There is a joke in our country that if you do very good deeds in your past life, you get rewarded with a government job in your present life
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But next time anyone tells me this, he/she is gonna get an earful from me.
> 
> I mean the paperwork my husband deals with is so monotonous repititive and exhausting that I almost wanted to shout "Oh God! Not again! How many times do I have to do this?"
> 
> I don't know how my dear husband continues to do this day after day and still keep his sanity.
> LOL!
> 
> At the end, I said "Ohhh! I need some air. I am going to the roof. Will you come?"
> He instantly replied "Me too. Lets go".
> 
> Before going to the roof I took the bottle of scotch, a pack of cigarettes, an ice bucket and two glasses.
> 
> He was surprised. I smiled and said "What? I need this!"
> And he gave me a wicked (and oh so sexy!) smile and said "Ofcourse you do".
> 
> I poured for both of us and we sat down. We started chatting. Not personal stuff but about the current state of affairs, the upcoming elections, our opinions of the political parties, etc. We both are very passionate about such topics and highly opinionated.
> 
> But words flowed easily between us. We sat there for almost an hour and a half drinking and smoking. In the end he said that we should go down as it was late.
> 
> As we were going down he suddenly said "Thanks for the help". I came near him and held his hand (our first affectionate body contact in almost 2 years) and said "I liked it very much, spending time with you." I don't know but maybe it was the alcohol that gave me the courage.
> 
> But most importantly he didn't flinch like he used to. He let me hold his hand. Again maybe it was the alcohol that brought some of his walls down.
> 
> I literally had to summon all strength in my mind and body to stop myself from kissing his lips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As we parted, I was elated and jumping in joy in my mind. My heart was racing so fast that I was not able to sleep properly.
> 
> I am so happy today!


Exactly what I am talking about, no fear and iniciative


----------



## Fringuello

No-redemption said:


> Please believe me, I never even thought about leaving my husband and daughter for that man. I couldn't imagine a life without them.


Of course you didn't. He would have never accepted the duties of a serious relationship, and you know that. He just wanted no-string-attached fun while your husband had all the duties. He wanted you to make a fool of your husband because that feed his ego and you were more than happy to oblige.

I really feel for your husband. He was made a cuckold by a younger stud and didn't even get revenge. You made him a loser and you wonder why he feels the way he feels.


----------



## No-redemption

Daniel. said:


> your h accepted your offer to help him with the tax thing and i had to found out my wife got promotion because her aunt sent a congratulation gift basket . It was awful but i stay because i still love her, even after another dday.


How is helping my husband with his office work a bad thing?

And I am sorry for the pain you are going through.



> I don't know what's going on inside your husband mind but you have the best guess. Maybe he's quiet because he's still hurting OR because he actually has moved on from you. Almost all of the post here assume that he's still hurting, but what if he's actually done with you romantically ? Can you accept the arrangement that he proposed, marriage but no wife/husband relationship ?


I will not give up hope till the last day of my life or till my husband finally gets fed up and starts the divorce. So yes I will live like this if that is the case. I have to accept my punishment.

I don't want to be pretentious but I read an article where it said that there is too much emphasis on sexual chemistry between a wife and husband nowadays. Its not a bad thing (having that sexual chemistry). But the article tried to say it was not end all, be all for a marriage because even in Europe and North America, husbands and wives rarely saw each other full naked before the 1960s.


----------



## No-redemption

Fringuello said:


> He wanted you to make a fool of your husband because that feed his ego and you were more than happy to oblige.
> 
> I really feel for your husband. He was made a cuckold by a younger stud and didn't even get revenge. You made him a loser and you wonder why he feels the way he feels.


I cannot change my disgusting past. And no, I don't wonder. I fully know and understand why he feels that way.

For what its worth, I am living in my own hell created by me.


----------



## owl6118

No-redemption said:


> But words flowed easily between us. We sat there for almost an hour and a half drinking and smoking. In the end he said that we should go down as it was late.
> 
> As we were going down he suddenly said "Thanks for the help". I came near him and held his hand (our first affectionate body contact in almost 2 years) and said "I liked it very much, spending time with you." I don't know but maybe it was the alcohol that gave me the courage.
> 
> But most importantly he didn't flinch like he used to. He let me hold his hand. Again maybe it was the alcohol that brought some of his walls down.
> 
> I literally had to summon all strength in my mind and body to stop myself from kissing his lips.
> 
> As we parted, I was elated and jumping in joy in my mind. My heart was racing so fast that I was not able to sleep properly.
> 
> I am so happy today!


Good job, N-R.

It all begins by being his friend. A loving, caring friend.

I am so happy you had this night.

But go slow. It is a jouney of a thousand steps and you have just taken one. And understand that he he does begin to open up, hurt and relived pain will come out too. It will be backward and forward. You are going to need to stay calm, present, and caring even when the ups and downs batter you. You will be tempted to dispair. Do not succumb to it. 

Roselyn and Tears are exactly exactly right. This is not about sex or seduction. It is about caring and little moments of kindness and trust that accumulate. Don't batter him with dramatic acts of self-improvement, or too much of your needs.

For now, just be who you were last night. His partner and friend.


----------



## tears

No-redemption said:


> Yes, he is punishing himself for the horrible things that I did. The punishment should only be for me. But he is suffering for my since.
> 
> And I exactly know what you mean when you say a "bottler". Earlier, if he was stressed about anything, I would sense it and ask him. And immediately he would start ranting about the situation or a person. I would cheer him up with encouraging words and advice to deal with a situation. Then I would point a comical side to it and he would light up with laughter (I will brag this about me - I have a great sense of humour ).
> 
> But since discovery, I can sense him sad but if I asked him anything him would reply "Its nothing". Then silently go to his room and would only come out if it were for our daughters or for dinner. He would silently do his household chores when I can see plainly that he is struggling. But he would never speak a word of it to me.


Your guilt in itself is a punishment that is going to haunt you for a long time. We want the best for our kids and right now, the longer this limbo lasts, the more it will seem to your kids that how dad and mum interact with each other is the natural order of things. They are likely to mould themselves to either be detached like their dad or walk on eggshells like their mum. I'm pretty sure that this is not what your or your husband would want for them.

And despite the cultural differences, the dynamic of long term relationships pan out in pretty much the same way. You helped your husband with his work and in the process you were able to establish a little emotional intimacy. 

You need to rinse and repeat the process. Please read the books His Needs Her Needs, The 5 Love Languages. They will help you figure out how to communicate with your husband in a way that he can understand and appreciate.

As you start getting closer, he will lash out at you and often. Please know that this is only a way for him to keep his sheilds up and prevent you from hurting him again by driving you away. This is exactly what hedid 2 years ago - lash out in anger and in pain.

I can recall this one time when we wentto buy a pair of wee little uniforms for our youngest from Sainsburys. My hubs(now bf) is ticklish and you can imagine how he would react if I were to jab him in the ribs with a coat hanger. This led to me and the girls going in for a full on frontal assault. Its embarrassing to say that we had so much fun goofing about in front of a couple of rather matronly old prudes. I was on a complete emotional high that day and next thing you know, he shuts down completely during dinner and this period of total radio silence from his end for a whole week after left me a complete emotional wreck. And then he was his usual self again. 

This is an example oh how the entire process of reconciliation can be. Its draining for sure but if you can give him and yourself enough space to feel whatever you're feeling and keep at it(R), I see no reason why you cant turn your present situation around despite what anybody, including your husband says.


----------



## Fringuello

owl6118 said:


> Roselyn and Tears are exactly exactly right. This is not about sex or seduction.


I disagree. Everyone is different and I can only speak for myself, but for me it would be about submission (in and out of the bedroom).

I think a man must feel his wife is "his woman". It's not a politicallt correct opinion, I know, but it is what it is.
And no amount of "I love you"s can compete with the images of your wife submitting sexually to another man.

So in order to heal, those images must be overwritten.

I know she has been rejected for 3.5 years, but she gotta understand that she gave him the biggest sexual rejection a woman can give a man.
And I wonder if she tries to seduce him in the wrong way. Maybe she makes it more about her need to feel desired by him than his need to feel her only man. So, he feels her attempts as another way to manipulate him instead of honest and humble submission.

I really think submission is the key. A man is very happy to be his woman's best friend, but if he must be friend with another man's leftover... that would make him feel like the biggest chump.

Just my two cents.


----------



## G.J.

Hmm can't find where OP said that she does everything with her husband sexually that she did with her lover except some stuff her husband couldn't do ?

I was looking for it as i still have not been able to figure that out


----------



## Thundarr

G.J. said:


> Hmm can't find where OP said that she does everything with her husband sexually that she did with her lover except some stuff her husband couldn't do ?
> 
> I was looking for it as i still have not been able to figure that out


I'm guessing this is the one you're looking for. GJ. Honestly I'm not sure why she trickled that bit if information out there if she's not going to explain?



No-redemption said:


> I never did anything extraordinary with the guy that I didn't do with my husband except one or two instances which I will not reveal because I understand people here are very bitter. It will give them another reason to lash. And those one - two things are not sexual in actual sense, so it is not possible for me to recreate that with my husband, should he choose to again be sexual with me.


----------



## Roselyn

No-redemption said:


> I lost my mind. I became filled with lust and thrill of having a secret life. It blinded me to potential dangers for my daughters and my husband.
> 
> Please believe me, I never even thought about leaving my husband and daughter for that man. I couldn't imagine a life without them. During those 8 months I did not cut off sex from my husband. I was insatiable. I wanted both of them.
> 
> But my lust led me again and again to go to bed with that man
> 
> 
> 
> I have been going to a psychiatrist for these last 3 years. I have some answer. Absolute infatuation about someone and "past is golden" mentality. Looking to the past instead of the future.
> 
> 
> But I have decided to ask my psychiatrist more direct questions about what is it that made me like this. Specific answers. If he can't tell me I will look for alternatives.


You are in human resources. You know the psychology of reward and punishment. Your act of infidelity for eight months is all about you. You enjoyed your power and abused it. You felt powerful to manipulate your husband and your lover. It is time for you to get humble. Humility is your path to atonement.

Your connection with the western world has made you believe that you too can have the freedom to pursue "happiness". Happiness for you was to pursue a young man, seduce him, and fulfill your fantasies. We Americans have the right to pursue happiness, but it doesn't mean that we have the right to catch it. For many of us "happiness" is elusive.

Do not tire your husband of your overtures of transparency. Be transparent, but don't overdo it. You are living as if you are in the western world. Get off this fantasy. This is not your society. Be realistic and begin humbling your narcissistic mind. 

From your posts, I am not convinced that you are confronting the gravity of your infidelity. You are still focused on yourself. Your daughters' futures are still looming ahead. You have heard of the cliché: "like mothers, like daughters". You definitely know what I am talking about. You have placed your husband, daughters, your family, his family, and associates in a dreadful place.


----------



## Anon Pink

ConanHub said:


> So fvcking around on your spouse in OPs culture can destroy the reputation of her daughters as well? WTF were you thinking?!?
> 
> I still think you need your head examined! Not interested in your marriage at all. What can you do to preserve the honor of your husband and daughters?
> 
> If you have an answer, do it. Stop thinking about your satisfaction in this situation. You really threatened your daughters chance at a future. Stop being selfish and do what is necessary for your daughters and husband to be well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



WTH Conan?

Exactly what are you suggesting?

You need to step back!

You also need to examine your responses in this thread and contrast them to your responses to male WS.

Here is a hint:
To badsanta, you show compassion and a willingness to help him see the error of his ways without passing judgment.

To this woman, you suggest honor suicide in order to bring back honor to her family.

This is why I absolutely HATE CWI and the groupie men who absolutely love taking their bitterness out on WWomen, but never WMen!


----------



## Anon Pink

No-redemption said:


> For what its worth, I am living in my own hell created by me.


You may have opened the door but your husband willingly walked through first!

This sickens me! How can you still love a man who would rather spend the rest of his life punishing you than finding happiness for himself and showing his daughters what a happy marriage looks like?

Your husband is a passive aggressive jerk. Dump him. Find a man who will work through problems with you, a man who isn't an emotional coward, a man who would rather find happiness than find vengeance. Your husband doesn't deserve your love!


----------



## terrence4159

i agree with anon pink your husband doesnt deserve your love please leave him. like she said you cheated on him crushed him destroyed your family he has the nerve no not be at your feet begging for the om's left overs.

diffrent culture anon if he divorces her he looks bad and loses the kids. so he is swallowing his pride for his family and staying.

yes she has a chance to win him back and if she follows the advice here (not yours) she just may get back the man she loved not the man she created.


----------



## farsidejunky

Anon Pink said:


> You may have opened the door but your husband willingly walked through first!
> 
> This sickens me! How can you still love a man who would rather spend the rest of his life punishing you than finding happiness for himself and showing his daughters what a happy marriage looks like?
> 
> Your husband is a passive aggressive jerk. Dump him. Find a man who will work through problems with you, a man who isn't an emotional coward, a man who would rather find happiness than find vengeance. Your husband doesn't deserve your love!


I think that may be a bridge too far, AP.

The truth is somewhere between you and Conan.


----------



## No-redemption

Fringuello said:


> *Your husband is a passive aggressive jerk.* Dump him. Your husband doesn't deserve your love!


Don't insult my husband. He has selflessly given me whereas I only gave a horrible betrayal in return.

And no, I will not dump him. If it somehow gives him comfort by punishing me, I will endure that for what I have put him through. Its not about me anymore.

I will never remarry.

My husband deserves every ounce of love I can give him.


----------



## G.J.

Anon Pink said:


> You may have opened the door but your husband willingly walked through first!
> 
> This sickens me! How can you still love a man who would rather spend the rest of his life punishing you than finding happiness for himself and showing his daughters what a happy marriage looks like?
> 
> Your husband is a passive aggressive jerk. Dump him. Find a man who will work through problems with you, a man who isn't an emotional coward, a man who would rather find happiness than find vengeance. Your husband doesn't deserve your love!


Yea his fault for not wanting to R fully with a cheating wife BUT save his daughters from shame as pointed out previously :scratchhead:

What a jerk not wanting to treat her as a wife eh

He said she can D him what a bad evil guy

ADD:
As far as 'not deserving her love' I nearly fell off my chair


----------



## G.J.

> Originally Posted by *No-redemption* View Post
> I never did anything extraordinary with the guy that I didn't do with my husband except one or two instances which I will not reveal because I understand people here are very bitter. It will give them another reason to lash. And those one - two things are not sexual in actual sense, so it is not possible for me to recreate that with my husband, should he choose to again be sexual with me.





Thundarr said:


> I'm guessing this is the one you're looking for. GJ. Honestly I'm not sure why she trickled that bit if information out there if she's not going to explain?


So if anyone can enlighten us on what OP meant as she obviously didn't want to tell us everything so as not to come across really bad which is manipulation by omission


----------



## KingwoodKev

No-redemption said:


> Don't insult my husband. He has selflessly given me whereas I only gave a horrible betrayal in return.
> 
> And no, I will not dump him. If it somehow gives him comfort by punishing me, I will endure that for what I have put him through. Its not about me anymore.
> 
> I will never remarry.
> 
> My husband deserves every ounce of love I can give him.


You obviously love him. Does he tell you he still loves you? Have you asked him? 3.5 years is a long time to live like this. I would ask him what you can do to help get past this. My WW and I lived in limbo for two years. I decided I had had enough of feeling that way and started searching online for advice about reconciliation. I found this place. It has helped me snap out of it. I let go of my rage. I still love my wife. That's what I had to answer to myself. She has done everything I've asked without hesitation so the only holdup to us moving forward was my pain and anger. I can't let go of the pain but I did let go of the anger. We're working on the pain and doing better.

Ask him for specific things you can do for you two to get past this. If he can't get past it then you two should divorce. Then you can both get past it on your own. Sometimes these things are unfixable. 3.5 years is long enough. Time to fish or cut bait.


----------



## jld

Anon Pink said:


> You may have opened the door but your husband willingly walked through first!
> 
> This sickens me! How can you still love a man who would rather spend the rest of his life punishing you than finding happiness for himself and showing his daughters what a happy marriage looks like?
> 
> Your husband is a passive aggressive jerk. Dump him. Find a man who will work through problems with you, a man who isn't an emotional coward, a man who would rather find happiness than find vengeance. Your husband doesn't deserve your love!


Your posts are right on, AP. I just wish OP were in a country where she could actually follow your advice.


----------



## No-redemption

KingwoodKev said:


> You obviously love him. Does he tell you he still loves you? Have you asked him?


Yes, I love him very very much.

But its not common in our culture to explicitly state "I love you". (though we have said that to each other in our very intimate moments). Its rather shown through actions.

For eg., you have a bad fight with your hubby. But on the same day some guests come to your house. Instead of putting on a surly face, you do your best to be the best host. That shows your husband that you still love him enough not to damage his prestige in front of outsiders.

And my hubby has kept my prestige many many times even after finding about my betrayal. Whenever my side of family had come to visit us in our house, he has been the most gracious and courteous host to them. He never once revealed his anger about me to them.

That itself shows me that there is still love in his heart for me.


----------



## KingwoodKev

No-redemption said:


> Yes, I love him very very much.
> 
> But its not common in our culture to explicitly state "I love you". (though we have said that to each other in our very intimate moments). Its rather shown through actions.
> 
> For eg., you have a bad fight with your hubby. But on the same day some guests come to your house. Instead of putting on a surly face, you do your best to be the best host. That shows your husband that you still love him enough not to damage his prestige in front of outsiders.
> 
> And my hubby has kept my prestige many many times even after finding about my betrayal. Whenever my side of family had come to visit us in our house, he has been the most gracious and courteous host to them. He never once revealed his anger about me to them.
> 
> That itself shows me that there is still love in his heart for me.



I'm an optimist. If there is still love in both hearts then most things can be fixed.


----------



## arbitrator

No-redemption said:


> Yes, I love him very very much.
> 
> But its not common in our culture to explicitly state "I love you". (though we have said that to each other in our very intimate moments). Its rather shown through actions.
> 
> For eg., you have a bad fight with your hubby. But on the same day some guests come to your house. Instead of putting on a surly face, you do your best to be the best host. That shows your husband that you still love him enough not to damage his prestige in front of outsiders.
> 
> And my hubby has kept my prestige many many times even after finding about my betrayal. Whenever my side of family had come to visit us in our house, he has been the most gracious and courteous host to them. He never once revealed his anger about me to them.
> 
> That itself shows me that there is still love in his heart for me.


*No-Redemption: Are you and your H actual residents of the United States? Or are you from outside of the U. S.?*


----------



## vellocet

No-redemption said:


> For eg., you have a bad fight with your hubby. But on the same day some guests come to your house. Instead of putting on a surly face, you do your best to be the best host. That shows your husband that you still love him enough not to damage his prestige in front of outsiders.
> 
> And my hubby has kept my prestige many many times even after finding about my betrayal. Whenever my side of family had come to visit us in our house, he has been the most gracious and courteous host to them. He never once revealed his anger about me to them.
> 
> That itself shows me that there is still love in his heart for me.


I wouldn't count on that just yet. 

Everyone is different, but I did the same thing. I put on a good face for other people when they came over in the short month after Dday. I had no love left for her. How could I after what she had done.

But I was a gracious host as well. Then when everyone went home, it was back to the cold shoulder.

Your husband might be different, who knows.


----------



## vellocet

Anon Pink said:


> You may have opened the door but your husband willingly walked through first!
> 
> This sickens me! How can you still love a man who would rather spend the rest of his life punishing you than finding happiness for himself and showing his daughters what a happy marriage looks like?
> 
> Your husband is a passive aggressive jerk. Dump him. Find a man who will work through problems with you, a man who isn't an emotional coward, a man who would rather find happiness than find vengeance. Your husband doesn't deserve your love!


The man was devastated in one of the worst ways by a woman who just had to make a young boy hers. And HE is the jerk?
I agree that he could handle things better, but he didn't ask for this sh*t.

Why does this not surprise me coming from you? I also agree that if she can't handle things the way they are, she may need to move on. But to treat him like he is some sort of son of a b!tch? Infidelity is tantamount to emotional abuse and he is hurting because of what she did. If things don't improve, again, she may need to leave for his sake and hers.


----------



## No-redemption

arbitrator said:


> *No-Redemption: Are you and your H actual residents of the United States? Or are you from outside of the U. S.?*


Outside US.


----------



## No-redemption

vellocet said:


> I wouldn't count on that just yet.
> 
> Everyone is different, but I did the same thing. I put on a good face for other people when they came over in the short month after Dday. I had no love left for her. How could I after what she had done.
> 
> But I was a gracious host as well. Then when everyone went home, it was back to the cold shoulder.
> 
> Your husband might be different, who knows.


That may very well be the case but I will still look in to the positives.

And I am sorry Vellocet that your wife didn't notice this respectful behaviour of yours.


----------



## vellocet

Ok, my question is, do you have it out of your system? Do you still desire other men? Want to make them yours because you want to steal them from their gfs?

Do you still have an attraction to other men where you really want them?


----------



## No-redemption

vellocet said:


> Ok, my question is, do you have it out of your system? Do you still desire other men? Want to make them yours because you want to steal them from their gfs?
> 
> Do you still have an attraction to other men where you really want them?


I think I have already answered this. I have not looked at any other man in that way for 3+ years.

Infact it now disgusts me to think that I ever let any man touch me other than my husband.

So no, I have no desire for any other men.


----------



## Fringuello

No-redemption said:


> Don't insult my husband. He has selflessly given me whereas I only gave a horrible betrayal in return.
> 
> And no, I will not dump him. If it somehow gives him comfort by punishing me, I will endure that for what I have put him through. Its not about me anymore.
> 
> I will never remarry.
> 
> My husband deserves every ounce of love I can give him.


It wasn't me who wrote that. I think you misquoted


----------



## No-redemption

Fringuello said:


> It wasn't me who wrote that. I think you misquoted


Sorry. I was writing it to Anon Pink.


----------



## Fringuello

Anyway NR, from a man's point of you I can tell you that your attempt to have intimacy was wrong. It was wrong because it obiouvsly felt like an attempt from you to get what you want (even if probably it was not the case).

What you have to do is show that you care about him and put him before you. Only showing selflessness and submission you can get intimacy back.

So, next time you find the courage to try to have sex with him, I strongly suggest to try something that gives pleasure only to him, like oral sex. And I am sorry if I am too graphic but I think you should try getting on your knees when you try it. It shows submission, selflessness and humility on a subconscious level

At least that is what would work for me.

I think you are truly remorseful and many BS here would love to have a WS like you, so I hope you'll find a way to get him back fully.


----------



## G.J.

Thundarr said:


> I'm guessing this is the one you're looking for. GJ. Honestly I'm not sure why she trickled that bit if information out there if she's not going to explain?





Thundarr said:


> Originally Posted by No-redemption View Post
> *I never did anything extraordinary with the guy that I didn't do with my husband except one or two instances which I will not reveal because I understand people here are very bitter. It will give them another reason to lash*. And those one - two things are not sexual in actual sense, so it is not possible for me to recreate that with my husband, should he choose to again be sexual with me.





G.J. said:


> So if anyone can enlighten us on what OP meant as she obviously didn't want to tell us everything so as not to come across really bad which is manipulation by omission


Doesn't look as though she wants to fully disclose all facts in case we judge her on her actions :scratchhead:


----------



## Fringuello

She said those things are not sexual in actual sense. It's not too difficult to guess what they are. It could be phone sex, it could be cam sex, it could be sexting, who knows.
Anyway it's obvious it would feel odd to do that with her husband since they live under the same roof. It would certainly feel totally forced and not spontaneous.


----------



## terrence4159

i think you do have a chance to win your husband back. dont push for sex win him back as a friend first and the sex will come.


----------



## Fringuello

I don't know. I think she should show him she LUST for him rather than let him think she wanna have marital sex with her best friend.


----------



## G.J.

Fringuello said:


> She said those things are not sexual in actual sense. It's not too difficult to guess what they are. It could be phone sex, it could be cam sex, it could be sexting, who knows.
> Anyway it's obvious it would feel odd to do that with her husband since they live under the same roof. It would certainly feel totally forced and not spontaneous.


so her husband can not do phone sex,cam sex, sexting....is he unable to type or use a cam :scratchhead:



> Originally Posted by *No-redemption* View Post
> I never did anything extraordinary with the guy that I didn't do with my husband except one or two instances which I will not reveal because I understand people here are very bitter. It will give them another reason to lash. And those one - two things are not sexual in actual sense, so *it is not possible for me to recreate that with my husband*, should he choose to again be sexual with me.


You want to try it with your wife I love doing it


----------



## Fringuello

G.J. said:


> so her husband can not do phone sex,cam sex, sexting....is he unable to type or use a cam :scratchhead


He can, obiouvsly, but why have forced odd phone sex when they can have actual hot sweaty sex?


----------



## Suspecting2014

Fringuello said:


> I don't know. I think she should show him she LUST for him rather than let him think she wanna have marital sex with her best friend.


Show him yes but be careful as he may trigger really bad


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> I never said anything that insinuates that your husband does not care about your daughters. I am sure that he cares very much for his daughters and I do not understand where you got that he did not from my posts.
> 
> The reason that I said that
> .
> One of the reasons that I suggested for you to get a plan B was that your husband may divorce you then where will you be? Since reading more recent posts it seems that your husband is not going to divorce you but it is not because he wants to have a relationship with you like in the past. His honor and position are few reasons that he will not divorce but the main one is probably that he does not want his daughters to not be 100% in his home and life. His refusing to divorce you is not because he wants to have a relationship with you like he did pre-A.
> 
> Another reason for your plan B is that you have told us that you are “broken” going back as far as your college crush. Your plan B should include you getting that brokeness fixed as much as possible because if you do not you will not be a good wife for anyone.
> 
> Thirdly, you should work on your plan B because you have stated that you love your daughters and would do anything for them. Your daughters need a mother that is stable and strong and you are neither right now. Your guilt and shame has kept you down.
> 
> Your daughters also need a mother that does not spends too much time trying to get her husband back so that you can have a “beautiful future with your husband” Anytime taken away from you getting better with your brokenness and your beaten down state will take away from getting stronger and more stable for your children and yourself.. You cannot have any success with that “beautiful future” as long as your husband despises you, spits on you, and has not had any intimacy with your for over THREE YEARS!
> 
> There is about a 100% chance that your can get better in those areas you have told us about yourself if you give plan B a very great effort for a good amount of time. The chances of you getting that “beautiful future” with your husband is ZERO percent as long as he holds to his resentment and despising you. This is your current reality and that is what I meant by your getting a plan B to better yourself.
> 
> You will be doing yourself and your children a great disservice if you do not diligently work on your plan B
> 
> *By No-Redemtion*
> 
> Reading here I understood the actions I have taken are not sufficient. I honestly didn't know better. But I have decided some of the things I am going to do and let my husband know that I am doing them to improve myself. Here they are:
> 
> 1) I will start writing a journal and will let my husband read it.
> 2) If I see my husband struggling in any way, I will not be passive anymore. I will actively ask him about it. He may rebuff me but I will persistently keep on doing this.
> 3) I know our household duties are divided but I will try to engage him more by making some of those duties common activities by asking for his help. I will also help him in his share of chores.
> 4) I will ask my psychiatrist if he can help me identify my character faults more clearly. If he can't give me a definite answer I will start looking for alternatives.
> 5) I will find a marriage counsellor and attend it myself. I will again ask my husband to join me. If he refuses, regardless I will let him know what was discussed in full honesty.
> 6) If he doesn't want to hear about the MC discussions, I will write them in letters and deliver it to him.
> 7) I would immediately let him know if my day-to-day schedule changes in any way. I will take a photo of where I am at and Whatsapp it to him so that he is sure I am there. I wouldn't let him linger in any sort of unsurity about me. I will forever be transparent to him from now on in every way.
> 8) I will start jogging and excercising in the morning again and invite him to join me.
> 
> Thank you.


OK, I now see that your have a plan and a plan that is very articulate!

I also see that your plan is mostly about you getting that “beautiful future with your husband”... What you posted about you and your husband’s interactions on the roof are a mile away from his previous actions you told us about. You offering yourself to him with affection and sex and then him spitting on you is completely opposite from your rooftop experience you just told us about. That is a dramatic optimistic change in your relationship. Because of your latest posts and Tears comments it appears that your husband has the potential and is showing signs of lessening his despising you and his resentment of you. 

Taking into consideration your new information and Tears’ comments I now think your plan is very good.


If I were your husband I would be very concerned on the progress that you made about your 
*Absolute infatuation about someone and "past is golden" mentality*. *Looking to the past instead of the future"*
This is extremely important because no good man is going to compete against his wife’s immature teen fantasy infatuation with some golden man from a past college crush. First, NO MAN should ever be put ahead of your husband in any way. Second, your previous jealousy and inability to see reality is very unsettling and is just too much of a negative for a man to place his heart and emotions with a woman with such flaws. A man will always protect his heart from being ripped to shreds and his emotions destroyed.

*No-Redemption, if I were you I would make sure that those flaws were completely eliminated and then I would find out how to convey that to your husband.* Your husband has to protect his reputation and honor but he will also vehemently protect his heart and emotions. If you can help him erase that GREAT FEAR then you will have moved your goal of getting back with your husband a great deal!

*How much progress have you made on your*
* “Absolute infatuation about someone and "past is golden" mentality. Looking to the past instead of the future” ?*


----------



## No-redemption

Why is the gruesome details of my sexual encounter is important?

But if you really want to know, the clue is in how I was caught.

My husband heard a giggle of my ex-lover when he called me which led to him being suspicious.

Now tell me, if in the future me and my husband become intimate again, who should I call that my husband has a chance to giggle? Is it even a normal thing to do?


----------



## azteca1986

Anon Pink said:


> You may have opened the door but your husband willingly walked through first!
> 
> This sickens me! How can you still love a man who would rather spend the rest of his life punishing you than finding happiness for himself and showing his daughters what a happy marriage looks like?
> 
> Your husband is a passive aggressive jerk. Dump him. Find a man who will work through problems with you, a man who isn't an emotional coward, a man who would rather find happiness than find vengeance. Your husband doesn't deserve your love!


Yeah! You go girl!

Why the hell would her husband initiate a divorce so that he can see his daughters at best half the time?


----------



## G.J.

Fringuello said:


> He can, obiouvsly, but why have forced odd phone sex when they can have actual hot sweaty sex?


They why post about sexting etc :scratchhead:

And if its good enough what ever it was for her lover why not her husband
As i said doesn't look as though she wants to fully disclose all facts in case we judge her on her actions


----------



## KingwoodKev

No-redemption said:


> Why is the gruesome details of my sexual encounter is important?
> 
> But if you really want to know, the clue is in how I was caught.
> 
> My husband heard a giggle of my ex-lover when he called me which led to him being suspicious.
> 
> Now tell me, if in the future me and my husband become intimate again, who should I call that my husband has a chance to giggle? Is it even a normal thing to do?


As a guy who learned the gory details, every last one of them, about my wife and her AP, I can tell you in retrospect that did more emotional harm than it helped. It made things much worse. I thought I wanted to know every physical thing they did. I didn't.


----------



## CantBelieveThis

No-redemption said:


> And he gave me such a loving look. But immediately his face changed and suddenly he spat on my face....


ouch, that wasnt cool.....and believe me as a BH I know well how he must feel, but I dont think that was necessary at all. It just saddens be you are both in this ugly place, I dont have much to offer but to wish you the best for you and your family.


----------



## G.J.

No-redemption said:


> Why is the gruesome details of my sexual encounter is important?
> 
> But if you really want to know, the clue is in how I was caught.
> 
> My husband heard a giggle of my ex-lover when he called me which led to him being suspicious.
> 
> Now tell me, if in the future me and my husband become intimate again, who should I call that my husband has a chance to giggle? Is it even a normal thing to do?


So your saying that 


> I never did anything extraordinary with the guy that I didn't do with my husband except one or two instances which I will not reveal because I understand people here are very bitter. It will give them another reason to lash. And those one - two things are not sexual in actual sense, so it is not possible for me to recreate that with my husband, should he choose to again be sexual with me


It was a turn on for your lover and you by phoning your husband when you were having sex.......I see


----------



## No-redemption

G.J. said:


> So your saying that
> 
> It was a turn on for your lover and you by phoning your husband when you were having sex.......I see


I did not call my husband that day. He called me to let me know that he will not be able to come home on time.

I am low but not that low. The last thing I wanted was to talk to my husband while I was having sex with another man.


----------



## G.J.

No-redemption said:


> I did not call my husband that day. He called me to let me know that he will not be able to come home on time.
> 
> I am low but not that low. The last thing I wanted was to talk to my husband while I was having sex with another man.


So why was you lover giggling couldn't he take it out while you spoke to your husband?


----------



## vellocet

No-redemption said:


> I think I have already answered this. I have not looked at any other man in that way for 3+ years.
> 
> Infact it now disgusts me to think that I ever let any man touch me other than my husband.
> 
> So no, I have no desire for any other men.


Ok, so I don't think this is unfixable. But that depends on just how unforgivable this is to your husband. If he is like me, he won't forgive it.

Have you sat him down, held his face, and told him this that you said above? I honestly don't know what more you could do other than be there for him, if you have done something like this.

And if he is like me, do NOT get all s!utty for him. He will just envision in his mind you doing that with the young guy.


----------



## Fringuello

No-Redemption, it's clear your ex-lover was giggling because of the wrong he was doing to your oblivious husband. How could you accept that?


----------



## No-redemption

Mr Blunt said:


> OK, I now see that your have a plan and a plan that is very articulate!
> 
> I also see that your plan is mostly about you getting that “beautiful future with your husband”... What you posted about you and your husband’s interactions on the roof are a mile away from his previous actions you told us about. You offering yourself to him with affection and sex and then him spitting on you is *completely opposite from your rooftop experience you just told us about. That is a dramatic optimistic change in your relationship. *Because of your latest posts and Tears comments it appears that your husband has the potential and is showing signs of lessening his despising you and his resentment of you.
> 
> Taking into consideration your new information and Tears’ comments I now think your plan is very good.


My husband and I are civil with each other in matter of household and children discussions. As long as I don't try to talk about the affair, other types of conversations does not infuriate him. And he doesn't throw the affair on my face. 
People may not believe this but he is a million miles away from an abusive persona. Only that he will lash out if I talk about my affair or try to engage him physically. And that too happened last time 2 years ago.

What we talked about on the rooftop was far removed from anything personal. Its was our opinion about the politics of our country. So the interaction was enthusiastic but civil.


----------



## No-redemption

G.J. said:


> So why was you lover giggling couldn't he take it out while you spoke to your husband?


Please stop this discussion about the details of my sexual encounter.


----------



## Divinely Favored

No-redemption said:


> G.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> So your saying that
> 
> It was a turn on for your lover and you by phoning your husband when you were having sex.......I see
> 
> 
> 
> I did not call my husband that day. He called me to let me know that he will not be able to come home on time.
> 
> I am low but not that low. The last thing I wanted was to talk to my husband while I was having sex with another man.
Click to expand...

Were you at home when he called?


----------



## azteca1986

No-redemption, sorry the the place your family finds itself in.

Here is a thread that might explain your husband's state of mind:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/74737-you-re-sorry.html
I've never seen a single post get so many likes on TAM. It's very articulate. The poster also took a similar route to the one your husband has chosen; he stayed with his wife but refused to again to place his emotional care in the hands of his wife. She proved should could not be trusted with the responsibility. I think that is the problem you are dealing with here. He's not passive aggressive, it's just that fathers tend to lose the right to see their children every day after a divorce. That's why he's told you to divorce him. He won't because he's already lost the marriage he wanted, he doesn't want to lose time with his children through no fault of his own.


----------



## No-redemption

Divinely Favored said:


> Were you at home when he called?


Yes


----------



## G.J.

> I never did anything extraordinary with the guy that I didn't do with my husband except *one or two instances which I will not reveal* because I understand people here are very bitter. *It will give them another reason to lash. *And those one - two things are not sexual in actual sense, so it is not possible for me to recreate that with my husband, should he choose to again be sexual with me





G.J. said:


> Can some one explain to me what these 2 things are im really at a loss :scratchhead:


I wonder what these 2 things are that people here would lash out at OP about if she told us as so far she hasn't and seems very reluctant to let us know

As I said before its manipulation by omission

If she cant be open to us I feel for that poor guy

Even now she can't own fully what she did


----------



## Coffee Amore

G.J. said:


> Doesn't look as though she wants to fully disclose all facts in case we judge her on her actions :scratchhead:


She doesn't have to fully disclose things to us. That disclosure is owed to her spouse and I believe she said she has told him what went on with the OM. She doesn't have to list for us any act she did with the OM. If she wants to keep information general for the sake of privacy or because of customs of her country, she's more than welcome to do so. None of us on TAM are her judge and jury.


----------



## SoulStorm

No-redemption said:


> I am low but not that low. The last thing I wanted was to talk to my husband while I was having sex with another man.


But you did talk to your husband while you were having sex with another man *in your very own home*. That is why the OM giggled.

That in itself was low..very low

I do admire that you are being remorseful and working on yourself not to do this again.


----------



## No-redemption

SoulStorm said:


> But you did talk to your husband while you were having sex with another man *in your very own home*. That is why the OM giggled.
> 
> That in itself was low..very low
> 
> I do admire that you are being remorseful and working on yourself not to do this again.


I never miss taking my husband's call. What if it is important? What if someone was calling me from his phone to let me know something had happened to him(God forbid)?


----------



## KingwoodKev

No-redemption said:


> I never miss taking my husband's call. What if it is important? What if someone was calling me from his phone to let me know something had happened to him(God forbid)?


Ironically when you took that call something horrific was happening to your husband at that very second.


----------



## G.J.

No-redemption said:


> I never miss taking my husband's call. What if it is important? What if someone was calling me from his phone to let me know something had happened to him(God forbid)?


So your saying the 2 not quite sexual things were you talking to your husband on the phone while having sex ?


----------



## Mr Blunt

No-Redemption
Did you overlook my question about your progress? I think your progress in this area is extremely important to your husband. Here is the question reprinted below




> How much progress have you made on your
> *“Absolute infatuation about someone and "past is golden" mentality. Looking to the past instead of the future” ?*


----------



## No-redemption

Mr Blunt said:


> No-Redemption
> Did you overlook my question about your progress? I think your progress in this area is extremely important to your husband. Here is the question reprinted below


Mr.Blunt, I would love to answer your question. I understand you really want to help me. But today is a bit late here. So I have to go to bed.

Please don't mind.


----------



## Fringuello

No-redemption said:


> I never miss taking my husband's call. What if it is important? What if someone was calling me from his phone to let me know something had happened to him(God forbid)?


So please explain why you brought OM in your home again.
I mean, you witnessed him giggling at your oblivious husband. And even that was not enough for you to feel like a piece of ****. And you met with him again. In your husband's home.
This time you knew he liked to disrispect your husband in his bed. Yet you choose to give him that power over your husband again.

It is very low.


----------



## SoulStorm

No-redemption said:


> I never miss taking my husband's call. What if it is important? What if someone was calling me from his phone to let me know something had happened to him(God forbid)?


I'm not saying not to answer calls from your husband, but what if you called him and you heard a woman giggle in the background. A woman he was having sex with? You would feel hugely disrespected and emasculated plus humiliated because he was home doing it.

It's not the answering of his call, it's what you were doing when you answered it


----------



## Coffee Amore

G.J. said:


> Her privacy went away when she posted if she wants people TO FULLY UNDERSTAND I would have thought


Nope. Her privacy never goes away. She's not here to satisfy any prurient interests posters here may have. Again, if this thread is a trigger for anyone, step away and don't post. There are others here who can offer constructive advice without using her as a punching bag.


----------



## Dogbert

Fringuello said:


> So please explain why you brought OM in your home again.
> I mean, you witnessed him giggling at your oblivious husband. And even that was not enough for you to feel like a piece of ****. And you met with him again. In your husband's home.
> This time you knew he liked to disrispect your husband in his bed. Yet you choose to give him that power over your husband again.
> 
> It is very low.


There's no denying that you are absolutely right in that is one of the most vile things she and the OM did during the affair. Unfortunately that cannot be changed or erased. But despite this, her husband has chosen to stay married to her. How does this help her help her husband to heal?


----------



## Dogbert

There's a difference between privacy and secrecy.

Privacy is her closing the bathroom door when she goes to take a dump or when she is menstruating and needs to put a feminine towel or tampon.

Secrecy is locking her phone and computer with passwords that her husband doesn't have access to or refusing to answer questions regarding her whereabouts.

Any questions?


----------



## EleGirl

G.J. said:


> If she cant be open to us I feel for that poor guy
> 
> Even now she can't own fully what she did


The OP owes YOU nothing. She owes US nothing.

Why do you think that she has to own fully anything TO YOU?

You are a stranger on the internet.


----------



## EleGirl

Dogbert said:


> There's a difference between privacy and secrecy.
> 
> Privacy is her closing the bathroom door when she goes to take a dump or when she is menstruating and needs to put a feminine towel or tampon.
> 
> Secrecy is locking her phone and computer with passwords that her husband doesn't have access to or refusing to answer questions regarding her whereabouts.
> 
> Any questions?


I think you misunderstood CA. She was talking to G.J.

G.J. stated that the OP's privacy went away when she posted on TAM. His point is that the OP has to tell us every thing that is asked of her. 

OP does not lose her right to privacy simply by posting on TAM

CA was not talking about privacy in marriage.


----------



## Fringuello

G.J. said:


> on two occasions they were having sex while she spoke to her husband ........
> 
> And with him laughing that must have turned him on, I wonder if he even stopped while she spoke to him?


Oh I get it now. It's so obvious.
She asked him to stop and he stopped, but he purposely started again while she was on the phone just to see her try to hide her pleasure. Just to feel that power over her husband. 

Apparently that disrespect was not enough for her to stop seeing him.

I have no words. That's just... really low.


----------



## Dogbert

EleGirl said:


> I think you misunderstood CA. She was talking to G.J.
> 
> G.J. stated that the OP's privacy went away when she posted on TAM. His point is that the OP has to tell us every thing that is asked of her.
> 
> OP does not lose her right to privacy simply by posting on TAM
> 
> CA was not talking about privacy in marriage.


Thanks. Once again I'm barking up the wrong tree.


----------



## manticore

Anon Pink said:


> You may have opened the door but your husband willingly walked through first!
> 
> This sickens me! How can you still love a man who would rather spend the rest of his life punishing you than finding happiness for himself and showing his daughters what a happy marriage looks like?
> 
> Your husband is a passive aggressive jerk. Dump him. Find a man who will work through problems with you, a man who isn't an emotional coward, a man who would rather find happiness than find vengeance. Your husband doesn't deserve your love!


*No what is sickenning is the sort of messages like yours totally entitled, without even trying to understand other people's culture and traditions, giving their ultra feminist cr*p to anyone who does not agree in their ways.*

It was explained already what would happen to her if she divorce as cheater in her culture, they both from high society class in their culture that unlike ours it does not end with cheaters being rewarded for their selfish actions

His husbands is one of the more honorable BS I have heard about a you come with this BSh*t,

In a culture when men can easily destroy a woman for infidelity , where he can have her disowned by her family and shunned down for the rest of her life and bring shame to her family from here to God knows how many generations in the future, he decided that swallowing his honor and inmediate desire of revenge and retrubution for the sake of his daughters future was the best, he is in a postion of power where with his influence he could have easily got divirce and take the kids for her mother (her words), for the sake of his kids future he decided that forget his hate for the OM and even have to reward him with a better job instead of destroying his career and reputation (as he was in a position of power and influence he probably had the means and influence necesary to do it).

But following his primal insticts that from his postion of power could have been acchived would probably harm the opportunity of her daughters to be accepted in the future for good families as daughters in law or wives, they would be marked for other people's choices even before understanding why the are being discriminated, I Wonder how many vengeful men with so much opportunity to destroy his WS and OM lives forever would have stopped in his place.

But of course you don't care about the difference in culture right, I am guessing you think any kind of culture like Asian, Arab or Latin where women infidelity still has a higher impact and consequences in the women and those around her, is just wrong and should be modified


----------



## Suspecting2014

Fringuello said:


> Oh I get it now. It's so obvious.
> She asked him to stop and he stopped, but he purposely started again while she was on the phone just to see her trying to hide her pleasure. Just to feel that power over her husband.
> 
> Apparently that disrespect was not enough for her to stop seeing him.
> 
> I have no words. That's just... really low.


Maybe wasn't OM, she kept moving while answering the phone and OM found it hilarious... anyhow this is POINTLESS! As NR has pointed out her husband knows everything.

As she said there is no way she could ever share something like this with her H.

IMO NR needs to find how to make it up to her H, find out new things to share with her husband that has not share with anybody else, to make him feel special.

Other issue could be OM walking away with her as batch on his belt with out any consequences at all and a full recommendation.

NR,

I understand that there is nothing you can do to change the past and that you both managed the outcome the best you could at that moment, thats why you must find find all new things to share with your H. No need to be big deals but some little things that make him feel that you care and may build complicity between the both of you. things you do just for him...

PS: Dont be afraid to try, you got nothing to lose anymore.


----------



## warlock07

Anon Pink said:


> WTH Conan?
> 
> Exactly what are you suggesting?
> 
> You need to step back!
> 
> You also need to examine your responses in this thread and contrast them to your responses to male WS.
> 
> Here is a hint:
> To badsanta, you show compassion and a willingness to help him see the error of his ways without passing judgment.
> 
> To this woman, you suggest honor suicide in order to bring back honor to her family.
> 
> This is why I absolutely HATE CWI and the groupie men who absolutely love taking their bitterness out on WWomen, but never WMen!


man hater alert..



> You may have opened the door but your husband willingly walked through first!
> 
> This sickens me! How can you still love a man who would rather spend the rest of his life punishing you than finding happiness for himself and showing his daughters what a happy marriage looks like?
> 
> Your husband is a passive aggressive jerk. Dump him. Find a man who will work through problems with you, a man who isn't an emotional coward, a man who would rather find happiness than find vengeance. Your husband doesn't deserve your love!


confirmed.


----------



## warlock07

No-redemption, you are wasting your time and the time of people who are posting to help you. Please post the necessary information of your situation. South Asia is just not enough. There are way too many cultures to be giving you relevant advice. People here usually give you a western POV. Counseling is not that big in some Asian countries and in some others, it is looked down upon. You are making people drag the relevant info out of you. And then get into arguments with them. And sometimes they could give you culturally wrong advice. 

Another thing was,stop giving us half truths. When you answered it the first time on how your husband found out about your affair, you mentioned that he heard your lover giggle in the background. Only in the last page when asked explicitly, do you mention that you were in your house in the marriage bed with your lover when this happened. 

I am not even sure if you are just venting or asking for advice. 

Do you have anyone to talk about the situation ? Close friends or family you can vent to ?


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## Fringuello

Suspecting2014 said:


> Maybe wasn't OM, she kept moving while answering the phone and OM found it hilarious... anyhow this is POINTLESS! As NR has pointed out her husband knows everything.
> 
> As she said there is no way she could ever share something like this with her H.


She doesn't have to share such thing with him. That's not the point.
I am just really sorry for her husband. He received much more disrespect than what she painted at first.
It's so much hard to accept something like that. It's just too much.


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## Dogbert

N-R, with regards to the journal, I would like to suggest that you consider NOT writing about the affair nor its aftermath for two reasons. One, it could become a trigger to your husband and he'll be back to square one at D-Day. And second, if the journal were to fall into the wrong hands, it could be used as a blackmailing tool.

The purpose of the journal is to show the beautiful things that life has brought you and your husband. Like the day your husband kissed you for the first time, like your wedding day, like the birth of your children, etc. Things that will put a smile on the two of you and be of value only to you and your husband.


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## Anon Pink

There are a huge number of inconsistencies in no redemptions' story. 

From a conservative culture in South Asia. A culture where family honor can be destroyed for generations, a culture where the husband has enough cultural and legal power to destroy his wife, a culture where mental health assistance is frowned upon, a culture where not only fidelity but virginity are expected for women and this wife has an affair! Oh PUULEESE!

Now, OP says she fell for this younger man who worked for her because of some absurd latent jealousy from her college room mate? Oh PUULEESE!

OP says she had an 8 month affair under her husband's nose, in her home, with two young daughters? Oh PUULEESE!

Op says all this happened within a south Asian culture as described above? :rofl:

Ya'll are pretty easy to get riled up.


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## vellocet

You mean easily riled up as in feeling stirred up enough to call OP's husband a jerk and that he doesn't deserve her special brand of "love"?

You are in that pit right there with us in the riled up category.


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## Forest

ConanHub said:


> So fvcking around on your spouse in OPs culture can destroy the reputation of her daughters as well? WTF were you thinking?!?
> 
> I still think you need your head examined! Not interested in your marriage at all. What can you do to preserve the honor of your husband and daughters?
> 
> If you have an answer, do it. Stop thinking about your satisfaction in this situation. You really threatened your daughters chance at a future. Stop being selfish and do what is necessary for your daughters and husband to be well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Anon Pink said:


> WTH Conan?
> 
> Exactly what are you suggesting?
> 
> You need to step back!
> 
> You also need to examine your responses in this thread and contrast them to your responses to male WS.
> 
> Here is a hint:
> To badsanta, you show compassion and a willingness to help him see the error of his ways without passing judgment.
> 
> To this woman, you suggest honor suicide in order to bring back honor to her family.
> 
> This is why I absolutely HATE CWI and the groupie men who absolutely love taking their bitterness out on WWomen, but never WMen!


So, Conan needs to step back? 

You extrapolate suicide from that post, then go on a tirade about men being unfair? Nah, don't get riled up.


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## Divinely Favored

Didn't she say he built another bedroom for himself. I bet the house, especially the master bedroom, is a trigger for him knowing you had another man in your matrimonial bed. Just living there will be an issue.


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## jld

Forest said:


> So, Conan needs to step back?
> 
> You extrapolate suicide from that post, then go on a tirade about men being unfair? Nah, don't get riled up.


Forest, what is the traditional response in cultures like the one the OP is from when "preserving the family honor" is at stake due to the perceived impurity of a female family member?


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## manticore

Anon Pink said:


> From a conservative culture in South Asia. A culture where family honor can be destroyed for generations, a culture where the husband has enough cultural and legal power to destroy his wife, a culture where mental health assistance is frowned upon, a culture where not only fidelity but virginity are expected for women and this wife has an affair! Oh PUULEESE!


Do you know this is the description of south Korea Right?, where there are male and female virgins an their late 20's and even at their 30's and is normal in their culture, I have known some people from there and this is how they are (at least a big part of the population) or you really thought all the countries where USA style where if you have not lost your virginity at 15 you are object of bullying?, see my previous post was right about you


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## Thundarr

AP has a point. This thread is kind of hard to believe parts of and it's layed out to incite triggers. Maybe a successful troll that's duped us, me included. What possibly could have been the point in sharing the giggle angle?


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## vellocet

Thundarr said:


> AP has a point. This thread is kind of hard to believe parts of and it's layed out to incite triggers. Might a successful troll that's duped us, me included.


She just might have a point, cuz it might have duped her enough to make the betrayed husband out to be the jerk in this situation. It riled her up enough to attack the husband who was cheated on.

Sorry, but I'm just sick of that sh*t.


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## Anon Pink

vellocet said:


> She just might have a point, cuz it might have duped her enough to make the betrayed husband out to be the jerk in this situation. It riled her up enough to attack the husband who was cheated on.
> 
> Sorry, but I'm just sick of that sh*t.


Oh come now velly! Where's the fun in singing with the choir? I've always preferred solos.


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## No-redemption

Thundarr said:


> AP has a point. This thread is kind of hard to believe parts of and it's layed out to incite triggers. Maybe a successful troll that's duped us, me included. *What possibly could have been the point in sharing the giggle angle?*


Originally Posted by MarriedDude View Post
Can you describe, briefly, your husbands personality prior to the affair discovery/disclosure? 

I will save this for another response. This will be long.

Has your husband articulated what about the affair disturbs him the most? Have you asked?

Mu husband is not disturbed by the age of my ex-lover. He is more disturbed by the fact that I was in love with a person from my past and was not upfront about it. He says I will forever love that guy from college and now that I have slept with another man only shows him that I will always love my college crush.

Did he ask for and/or receive full disclosure about the affair and events that let to it?

Yes he did and I gave him. I gave him such gory details (thought he figured our some of them on his own), that I wish I hadn't.

Does this young man still work for you or ever have cause to contact you? Has ALL contact been terminated?

Within a month I terminated his employment even when he was very competent professionally. No contact with him for 3.5 years.

Have you asked your husband to return to the bed you used to share? If you have- what was his response- exactly?

Have you read my initial post? He told me in no uncertain terms that our husband-wife relation is dead. And he described how we would live in the future. He cooks 3 days, I cook 4 days of the week, he does groceries once, then I do next time, he pays half for our children, I pay half......basically we are housemates with equal sharing.

Has your husband discussed the possibility of divorce? Have you? If it has been brought up...who brought it up first.

He said he would not divorce. Reason is again this is related to you first question which I will answer later. 

How did your husband find out about the affair? 

*Was suspicious one time talking to me on the phone when he heard my lover giggle. Couldn't find anything on my phone. Skipped office for a week to keep a look on my office and house. Found me taking my lover to our house *

Finally...is the story you presented above, the same story you told your husband? If so -I have to say that it doesn't really ring true/realistic (I could be wrong...just a gut feeling). Your husband may very well feel the same. Has he ever told you that? (This is not an accusation...just a question)

Yes I told everything and exactly the same. And this story is true, however disgusting it is.


It was here that I first answered how I was caught. Its on Page 3.

Everyone here want the truth. So I gave it. If this was a trigger for people here, I am sorry.

Then again people asked me what were the non sexual aspect I was unwilling to talk about. I gave them the answer.

Does this answer your question? 

But yes, I am cheater. So I am a born liar and troll.


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## Forest

jld said:


> Forest, what is the traditional response in cultures like the one the OP is from when "preserving the family honor" is at stake due to the perceived impurity of a female family member?


Why is that term in quotes? I've already quoted original post, it was less dramatic.

I've also made clear I don't believe suicide was inferred. I would imagine a myriad of responses to Conan's post, but not suicide. Also too dramatic.


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## No-redemption

I will not post here anymore. I have taken enough insults here.

A sincere thanks to the people who really tried to help.

A parting advice:

Please rename this site as TALKABOUTAMERICANMARRIAGE.COM

The people from other countries will actually know better than to post here.


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## vellocet

No-redemption said:


> I will not post here anymore. I have taken enough insults here.
> 
> A sincere thanks to the people who really tried to help.
> 
> A parting advice:
> 
> Please rename this site as TALKABOUTAMERICANMARRIAGE.COM
> 
> *The people from other countries will actually know better than to post here*.


Sorry, but perhaps certain people need to first understand what it means to be married. And certain people have no business being married, whether in America or elsewhere.

Or are you trying to tell us that in your country, cheating in a marriage is to come with a certain understanding and leeway is given?


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## Jasel

No-redemption said:


> I will not post here anymore. I have taken enough insults here.


TBH after following this thread from the start I can't blame you. Good luck.


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## CantBelieveThis

Infidelity sucks.....it cannot be reasoned with, it can barely be discussed openly w/o significant conflicting points of view and strong disagreements...its just horrible. And yet you hear nonsense about how it can help some marriages....please...


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## jld

Forest said:


> Why is that term in quotes? I've already quoted original post, it was less dramatic.
> 
> I've also made clear I don't believe suicide was inferred. I would imagine a myriad of responses to Conan's post, but not suicide. Also too dramatic.


In cultures outside of the West, honor killings are not unknown. I think calls to "preserve the honor of your husband and daughters" could definitely be interpreted that way by people from those cultures.


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## vellocet

jld said:


> In cultures outside of the West, honor killings are not unknown. I think calls to "preserve the honor of your husband and daughters" could definitely be interpreted that way by people from those cultures.


Did I miss something? Did her husband attempt to kill her?

I thought he just built an addition on to the house and moved into that? 

Why are we even talking about honor killings here?


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## Forest

jld said:


> In cultures outside of the West, honor killings are not unknown. I think calls to "preserve the honor of your husband and daughters" could definitely be interpreted that way by people from those cultures.


"not unknown" is a long way from presuming someone is advocating a woman kill herself.



vellocet said:


> Did I miss something? Did her husband attempt to kill her?
> 
> I thought he just built an addition on to the house and moved into that?
> 
> Why are we even talking about honor killings here?


You missed someone getting riled up, and supposing if a man uses the word "honor" toward a woman, he wants her to commit suicide.


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## ConanHub

To Anon Pink. BadSanta hadn't cheated yet. I try to talk people down regardless of gender before they cheat. If he had already cheated I would have advised him to stick it in a running weed whacker or equivalently pleasant device. 

I would never advocate suicide and I hope you never think that of me.

I was super angry about extra cultural damage inflicted by OP on her daughters. Infidelity is vile enough without extra danger to children.

OP was far more aware of her culture and how her pathetic behavior would affect her daughters. I will always express anger when parents endanger their children, especially for something as wonderful as banging your young employee in the same home you tuck them in at night.

Just to clarify. My anger level with men who pull this shyt is nearly off the scale. I have probably advised more women to leave cheating or abusive men than vice versa.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fringuello

No-redemption said:


> I will not post here anymore. I have taken enough insults here.
> 
> A sincere thanks to the people who really tried to help.
> 
> A parting advice:
> 
> Please rename this site as TALKABOUTAMERICANMARRIAGE.COM
> 
> The people from other countries will actually know better than to post here.


I'm sincerly sorry. I hope you change your mind.


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## lifeistooshort

Assuming this thread is real I do feel very bad for the husband. If I take a step back and think about how I'd feel if my husband brought some sk!nk into our home and laughed at me on the phone with her I don't think I'd ever forgive him for that and he certainly wouldn't be touching me again. I get that. And if he came onto me I'd be sorely tempted to spit in his face, though I probably wouldn't lower myself.

In my case it would be better to just divorce, but perhaps in their culture that's not so easy. Ok, I get that. I just see a whole lot of posts basically project and using OP as a punching bag, which isn't particularly helpful, in addition to the huge amount of double standard. No wayward husband would ever be advised to put up with his wife spitting in his face or 3 and a half years of celibacy, especially if he was remorseful. In fact, if any of us beat up on him he'd get sympathy because "he's suffered enough" and she chose not to leave. Yet that's what's going on here. What more do you guys want from her? You want her on her knees to grovel until the day she dies? Would that make the victims happy? Would that stick it to your ex or wayward wife? Just think about whether your comment is helpful or you venting your own issues. OP wrecked her own life and her entire family is suffering.....I don't know that it's part of her culture to grovel like so many of you want her to do. We are talking about cultures where people control their emotions, and according to her she can't even talk to him about it so what can she do?

If her husband can't move beyond it that might be how it is, and if for whatever reason they can't divorce this might be her life. The advice offering her different ways to help him heal and move on is most helpful, so if you've been offering such advice that's good. It's great to give advice on how she might slowly break down his walls, and she does need to have patience with him. But please think long and hard about whether you'd do this to a wayward husband who was sorry, because I've seen threads like that where the poor baby gets a lot of sympathy.


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## missmim

This is so sad. If I were sitting in a support group for marriage problems, and NR walked in and sat in the group seeking support with some of you folks, I would honestly fear for her safety. I Would feel compelled to protect her from the obvious mob mentality and the danger to her safety. The op didnt come on here to trigger anybody. She came and asked for help. Many of you are trying to bully her into providing the dirty details "triggers". When she doesn't respond to you liking, you either call her names or completely make up the answer and run with it, and then insult her again based on that. You should be ashamed of yourselves. This is not BS CWI, this is coping with infidelity in all it's forms. You feed off eachother, and it eerily like Twlight Zones "The monsters are due on Maple Street". Where seeking support devolves into almost a mob-like panic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains

manticore said:


> *No what is sickenning is the sort of messages like yours totally entitled, without even trying to understand other people's culture and traditions, giving their ultra feminist cr*p to anyone who does not agree in their ways.*
> 
> It was explained already what would happen to her if she divorce as cheater in her culture, they both from high society class in their culture that unlike ours it does not end with cheaters being rewarded for their selfish actions
> 
> His husbands is one of the more honorable BS I have heard about a you come with this BSh*t,
> 
> In a culture when men can easily destroy a woman for infidelity , where he can have her disowned by her family and shunned down for the rest of her life and bring shame to her family from here to God knows how many generations in the future, he decided that swallowing his honor and inmediate desire of revenge and retrubution for the sake of his daughters future was the best, he is in a postion of power where with his influence he could have easily got divirce and take the kids for her mother (her words), for the sake of his kids future he decided that forget his hate for the OM and even have to reward him with a better job instead of destroying his career and reputation (as he was in a position of power and influence he probably had the means and influence necesary to do it).
> 
> But following his primal insticts that from his postion of power could have been acchived would probably harm the opportunity of her daughters to be accepted in the future for good families as daughters in law or wives, they would be marked for other people's choices even before understanding why the are being discriminated, I Wonder how many vengeful men with so much opportunity to destroy his WS and OM lives forever would have stopped in his place.
> 
> But of course you don't care about the difference in culture right, I am guessing you think any kind of culture like Asian, Arab or Latin where women infidelity still has a higher impact and consequences in the women and those around her, is just wrong and should be modified


Great post. 

I had to like a second time.


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## Remains

Anon Pink said:


> There are a huge number of inconsistencies in no redemptions' story.
> 
> From a conservative culture in South Asia. A culture where family honor can be destroyed for generations, a culture where the husband has enough cultural and legal power to destroy his wife, a culture where mental health assistance is frowned upon, a culture where not only fidelity but virginity are expected for women and this wife has an affair! Oh PUULEESE!
> 
> Now, OP says she fell for this younger man who worked for her because of some absurd latent jealousy from her college room mate? Oh PUULEESE!
> 
> OP says she had an 8 month affair under her husband's nose, in her home, with two young daughters? Oh PUULEESE!
> 
> Op says all this happened within a south Asian culture as described above? :rofl:
> 
> Ya'll are pretty easy to get riled up.


You look at cultures where infidelity is punishable by death and yet it still happens. Oh PLEASE

And as for the rest, I'm thinking China about sums the rest of the OH PLEASES up. I'm sure it could easily be one of the countries surrounding, but China could fit the OH PLEASE points down to a tee I think.


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## Forest

manticore said:


> *No what is sickenning is the sort of messages like yours totally entitled, without even trying to understand other people's culture and traditions, giving their ultra feminist cr*p to anyone who does not agree in their ways.*
> 
> 
> But of course you don't care about the difference in culture right, I am guessing you think any kind of culture like Asian, Arab or Latin where women infidelity still has a higher impact and consequences in the women and those around her, is just wrong and should be modified






Remains said:


> You look at cultures where infidelity is punishable by death and yet it still happens. Oh PLEASE
> 
> And as for the rest, I'm thinking China about sums the rest of the OH PLEASES up. I'm sure it could easily be one of the countries surrounding, but China could fit the OH PLEASE points down to a tee I think.


For the record, its OH Puuleese!:ezpi_wink1:

It may just be a waste of time for the two of you to even respond. Its like Einstein and Stephen Hawking trying to lecture Beavis and Butthead.


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## Coffee Amore

Well this was quite helpful to the OP. She has asked her thread be closed, so I'm going to close it as she requested.


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## Deejo

TAM - We'll give you all the support you need ... as long as we approve of you.

Some of you folks need to get lives, or hobbies ... or therapy.


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