# Ask a Poly anything



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Because it was asked for.

I invite my fellow Poly/CNM people to contribute their answers as well. I teach a poly 101 class, and one thing I point out is that there is no one true way.

Also feel free to ask about any variation of consentual non monogamy (CNM), be it swinging, open relationship, polyamorus, polygamy or whatever. 

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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> Because it was asked for.
> 
> I invite my fellow Poly/CNM people to contribute their answers as well. I teach a poly 101 class, and one thing I point out is that there is no one true way.
> 
> ...


YAAAAYYYYY!!!!! 

Wait...there's a Poly 101 CLASS...?? For real? SO cool!!!

Ok...well, in my excitement to see this thread, my mind has gone blank...Lol!...but...hmm...ok, ok...

First...Are there other reasons (besides sexual variety) that couples choose non-monogamy? What are some of them...?

Thank you for this thread!!!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

How does it work with couples, when one person is interested but the other isn’t? Or one person is wanted, but the other isn’t?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

maquiscat said:


> Because it was asked for.
> 
> I invite my fellow Poly/CNM people to contribute their answers as well. I teach a poly 101 class, and one thing I point out is that there is no one true way.
> 
> Also feel free to ask about any variation of consentual non monogamy (CNM), be it swinging, open relationship, polyamorus, polygamy or whatever.


Where do you teach this? Is this at a university/college or is it through some organization?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Also, I was reading this thread yesterday....

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/gener...11346-one-sided-open-marriage-turned-bad.html

...and there weren't many actual positive open-marriage responses (if any), and as I read it I was wondering what poly-positive couples would say about how the OP and his wife should have dealt with the issues they were having...


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

EleGirl said:


> Where do you teach this? Is this at a university/college or is it through some organization?


Grassroots community events, mostly. I teach basic level stuff. I am not an educator in the sense of a teacher or professor or anything. I also teach a BDSM 101 class and a few different types of plays at local groups.

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> YAAAAYYYYY!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Wait...there's a Poly 101 CLASS...?? For real? SO cool!!!


Only in the sense of local people gathering to learn. There might be colleges or universities that actually offer such information, but I am not aware of them.








> First...Are there other reasons (besides sexual variety) that couples choose non-monogamy? What are some of them...?


I guess when you boil it all down it, it comes to two very generalized categories: love and sex. Now that is taking into account all the varieties of consentual non monogamy. There are open relationships which are usually about sex, swingers, also about sex but specific to a married person, and poly, which is more about relationships. Mind you all kinds of cross over can happen

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Marduk said:


> How does it work with couples, when one person is interested but the other isn’t? Or one person is wanted, but the other isn’t?


By you second question, I am guessing you mean when there is a couple and an outside individual desires one but not the other.

It all really depends upon the existing relationships and what they've agreed upon. There are all kinds of groupings. And it can get more complicated when there are both relationships as well as play (sex) partners. 

There is actually a thing known as a poly/mono relationship, where one partner is polyamorus and the other is monogamous. Usually that means that the mono partner only desires the one, but is alright with them having other partners as well.

You can also have where two people are emotionally monogamous, but sexually open.

Some do try to date exclusively, by which I mean that if there is to be a new partner, the new one must date all the current ones (usually 2) as a unit. It doesn't always work well.

There is also poly units that run on a variety of combinations of factors. For example, I am in a polycule of 2 women and 2 men, myself included. Romantically speaking we all love one another. Sexually speaking, one wife and one husband are monogamous. I am not sexually attracted to my husband, but I do love him. He is the same for both myself and my legal wife. His legal wife (my other wife) is actually sexually attracted to all three of us, but my legal wife is not sexually attracted to either of them. 

Ultimately it simply comes down to the fact that you don't and shouldn't try to control your partner's partners, or your metamours. You express your concerns and feelings, and you give them the choice. That doesn't mean you just give up on a relationship, but ultimatums are a quick way to end things.

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> Also, I was reading this thread yesterday....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe I saw that thread after it was resurrected and then shut down, so I didn't get a chance to comment.

There were a lot of problems there. The first is probably when she failed to let her husband know it had gone beyond just sex. And it seemed that he was fine with it when that was all it was. There was probably an issue with them not bothering to actually have conversations about what each was expecting. Even worse was that the wife was sleeping with a married man whose own wife was not informed. That's cheating and it is not looked well upon within the CNM community. After all, if you have a partner willing to give permission, why go behind the back? Personally I do not engage with a new partner, play or relationship, that I know is with someone (s) else, without hearing directly from those partner(s) that my potential partner is doing this with their knowledge and approval. Even if they want a DADT situation, I need that one time of acknowledgement and then, my trap will be shut afterwards.

It sounds like there may have been trouble brewing to start with. It wasn't clear to me in the OP if he was getting his needs met or not, sexual or otherwise. The wife then sounded as if she was trying to punish the husband by saying the romance and sex were done while remaining married to him, but that's his telling of it.

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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> I guess when you boil it all down it, it comes to two very generalized categories: love and sex. Now that is taking into account all the varieties of consentual non monogamy. There are open relationships which are usually about sex, swingers, also about sex but specific to a married person, and poly, which is more about relationships. Mind you all kinds of cross over can happen
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk



The paths non-monogamous couples have followed to bring them to something so outside of "normal" is VERY interesting to me. I wonder if they are all just super-secure in themselves as partners to not be threatened by adding other people into their "couple", because, as I don't see non-monogamy as a moral issue, my only objection to it (for ME) is that I hate competition of any kind - I DO NOT WANT to be unwanted - and giving my significant other the opportunity to choose another woman instead of me would harm me emotionally...I can't see that in any other way but as a rejection of me. I wonder if anyone started out feeling like me but was able to get over it...? Or are they all just very secure, like I said?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> The paths non-monogamous couples have followed to bring them to something so outside of "normal" is VERY interesting to me. I wonder if they are all just super-secure in themselves as partners to not be threatened by adding other people into their "couple", because, as I don't see non-monogamy as a moral issue, my only objection to it (for ME) is that I hate competition of any kind - I DO NOT WANT to be unwanted - and giving my significant other the opportunity to choose another woman instead of me would harm me emotionally...I can't see that in any other way but as a rejection of me. I wonder if anyone started out feeling like me but was able to get over it...? Or are they all just very secure, like I said?


It's not supposed to be about rejection. I like to use children (one's own) as an analogy when explaining things like this. Do you reject one child if you are singling out another one for a special day or treat? Or are you just spending quality time with one that you will be spending with the other at some other point, and there is also times you are with both?

Here is some other thoughts that most monos don't typically think about. You take time for yourself every so often right? If you're doing that (and I really hope you are) then he's not rejecting you if he's off with another, is he. You are not available at that time.

As to security issues, believe me, they abound among the poly just as they do around other relationships. For some people, even once they realize that poly is what they are, they are still unsure. And even having been secure in a previous relationship, they might not feel it in a later one. 

We're also not any more immune to jealousy than we are insecurities. When it comes down to it, there are no problems that happened within a poly unit that don't happens in a mono relationship. We have all the same dangers, just with more people. The tools we use to help us through our problems, work for the most part for any relationship, poly or mono.

And yes a lot of people who enter into lifestyle have their doubts and fears at first, and then developed the skills and tools and experience to handle it all.

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

AandM said:


> So, if there is one of those deals that involves multiple "men" and one trikethrough]*gothopotamus*[/strikethrough], how do they determine who is getting first dibs? Draw straws, rotation, slapfight? Seriously0, how do they figure out who is _NOT_ getting sloppy seconds?


Need to work on your coding a bit there. 

Depends on your situation and those involved. Keep in mind that just because something bothers you, it doesn't mean others are bothered by it. 

Are we looking at a sex only type thing or within a full out relationship? What is the relationship? Is it a V or a triad, for example? How sex is handled, whether in a poly relationship or an open one, is as varied as the number of relationships themselves. There really is no one solution.



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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> Also, I was reading this thread yesterday....
> 
> https://talkaboutmarriage.com/gener...11346-one-sided-open-marriage-turned-bad.html
> 
> ...and there weren't many actual positive open-marriage responses (if any), and as I read it I was wondering what poly-positive couples would say about how the OP and his wife should have dealt with the issues they were having...


Interesting thread. 
We aren’t poly, but to each there own. 
One can tell from the first post she was being petty and trying to punish her husband. (Reasons she was blaming him are off topic). 

They were unethical and also asking for trouble by involving a married man whose wife was oblivious. 

I understand the poly mindset yet think the old adage holds true, “a couple who plays together stays together,” or At least they have more of a chance. 

Also seems she was subconsciously asking her husband to grow a backbone. Now, whether she could realize, and accept that is questionable. 

Common sense says independent Poly can lead to divided loyalties in many cases unless they all live together as a big family. 

If 2 partners are I an accident in 2 separate towns which one will you go too?
Unlikely scenario but I saw it happen with a wreck involving a family. They air lifted the parents to separate hospitals and each child to separate hospitals and one to the morgue. Grandparents torn on which of the 4 hospitals to go to knowing each was in critical condition. 
One is going to end up feeling abandoned.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

AandM said:


> So, if there is one of those deals that involves multiple "men" and one trikethrough]*REDACTED WORD*[/strikethrough], how do they determine who is getting first dibs? Draw straws, rotation, slapfight? Seriously0, how do they figure out who is _NOT_ getting sloppy seconds?




The fact that your mind goes there tells me that its no use trying to explain it. You simply wont get it. You are too hung up on "sloppy seconds."


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

LisaDiane said:


> The paths non-monogamous couples have followed to bring them to something so outside of "normal" is VERY interesting to me. I wonder if they are all just super-secure in themselves as partners to not be threatened by adding other people into their "couple", because, as I don't see non-monogamy as a moral issue, my only objection to it (for ME) is that I hate competition of any kind - I DO NOT WANT to be unwanted - and giving my significant other the opportunity to choose another woman instead of me would harm me emotionally...I can't see that in any other way but as a rejection of me. I wonder if anyone started out feeling like me but was able to get over it...? Or are they all just very secure, like I said?


In our case, i would say that my wife and i are really secure in our relationship. We have been through just about everything that would normally rip a couple apart. We are kinda like best friends that have sex... if that makes any sense. If a best friend found someone else that they really enjoyed spending time with, most people probably wouldn't try to kill that relationship. Rather, they would probably be happy for them. Now take that and make the best friend a room mate as well. If they spend half their time away, still not bad so long as you get to spend the other half doing things you enjoy. 

Take it a bit further and you have my wife and i: i really love seeing her happy and she really loves seeing me happy. We are paired up like partners in crime. 

All that said, it may have been easier for my wife to avoid getting too jealous of my girlfriend because my girlfriend and i cant really have normal sex... I don't know if that makes much of a difference. 

As for how i feel, well... we just took in a homeless veteran a week ago. He managed to find himself stranded in mexico, so we offered to get him to north carolina and give him a place to stay until he can get his feet under him. He hit it off with my wife pretty quick. It didnt really bother me, i just asked that he get an STD screening before they do anything, should they choose to do anything. So far, they havent really pursued it. Mostly just talked about it and decided to shelve that possibility for a later date, as he is not in a good place to enter a relationship right now.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Marduk said:


> How does it work with couples, when one person is interested but the other isn’t? Or one person is wanted, but the other isn’t?


Not quite sure what you mean...

When one is mono and the other poly? My girlfriends fiance is mono, and my girlfriend is poly... They worked it out between them. 

Or are you assuming that with most poly relationships everyone is dating everyone else? If so, well, it rarely happens that way. That gets exhausting.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

red oak said:


> Common sense says independent Poly can lead to divided loyalties in many cases unless they all live together as a big family.
> 
> If 2 partners are I an accident in 2 separate towns which one will you go too?
> Unlikely scenario but I saw it happen with a wreck involving a family. They air lifted the parents to separate hospitals and each child to separate hospitals and one to the morgue. Grandparents torn on which of the 4 hospitals to go to knowing each was in critical condition.
> One is going to end up feeling abandoned.


Well first off you just shown that the divided loyalties issue isn't limited to polys. Take your scenario and make it the mother who was not in the accident. Where does she go? She has at least three choices.

But within poly there can be levels of relationship where one, at a given time at least, gives priority to another. I have had other girlfriends, but my priority goes to my husband and wives. So the girlfriend would take a back seat. Now if the girlfriend made it up to the same level as spouse (although not necessarily marrying into our unit) then it will be the same as if the decision was between spouses and children....damn difficult.

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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> It's not supposed to be about rejection. I like to use children (one's own) as an analogy when explaining things like this. Do you reject one child if you are singling out another one for a special day or treat? Or are you just spending quality time with one that you will be spending with the other at some other point, and there is also times you are with both?
> 
> Here is some other thoughts that most monos don't typically think about. You take time for yourself every so often right? If you're doing that (and I really hope you are) then he's not rejecting you if he's off with another, is he. You are not available at that time.
> 
> ...


These answers are fantastic and so fascinating to me!!!

The rejection analogy that you gave doesn't really reach my particular issues that I brought up, because I am talking mainly about SEXUAL rejection, not emotional or physical (as in, spending time with someone else) - I am a deeply emotional person who connects easily with others and "loves" almost anyone who I get to know, so I am perfectly comfortable with all kinds of relationships and feelings between people. Also, I value FREEDOM maybe most of all, so I always want any love I give to others to have NO "strings" or expectations.

But all that makes a hard STOP when it comes to sex for me -- if my partner wanted to have sex with someone else, then I would release him with understanding and a full heart (and of course lots of sadness), but I wouldn't want to share myself sexually with him again -- sex isn't flippant and superficial for me, it's deep and transformative and a level of vulnerability that I'm not willing to experience with anyone but someone who is My Favorite Person, and I'm theirs. I can share them in every other way, except sexually.

What I DO really like about the poly lifestyle is how much the partners all work on COMMUNICATION and OPENNESS/HONESTY, and how there is no need for anyone to feel ashamed for asking for what they need in their relationships -- and actually, although honesty really is a requirement for ALL relationships to be successful, partners in poly relationships can't pretend like partners in monogamous relationships can, or else they are working against themselves...it seems like poly partners hold honesty as the core of their relationships in the same way monogamous partners hold fidelity as the core of theirs!

It might be a good idea for ALL people, monogamous and poly, to go to one of your classes so they could better understand how important honesty and communication are for every relationship to succeed!!!

I'll be back with more questions...! Lol!! Thank you so much for being so open and available!! :smile2:


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

maquiscat said:


> Well first off you just shown that the divided loyalties issue isn't limited to polys. Take your scenario and make it the mother who was not in the accident. Where does she go? She has at least three choices.
> 
> But within poly there can be levels of relationship where one, at a given time at least, gives priority to another. I have had other girlfriends, but my priority goes to my husband and wives. So the girlfriend would take a back seat. Now if the girlfriend made it up to the same level as spouse (although not necessarily marrying into our unit) then it will be the same as if the decision was between spouses and children....damn difficult.
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


Divided loyalties are experienced daily in a myriad of ways in daily life. 

I read what one wrote of his experience during the civil war in Bosnia and the change in structure as a result. 

No longer any shame in sex, and/or desire to have sex with someone. 

Life was so precarious for them any respite to enjoy some of what life still had to offer took precedence. 

Jealousy took a back seat to survival and what little pleasures they could find for their little fluctuating group. 

Basically for survival loyalty was to the group each staunchly defending those mainstays within the group.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

red oak said:


> Divided loyalties are experienced daily in a myriad of ways in daily life.
> 
> I read what one wrote of his experience during the civil war in Bosnia and the change in structure as a result.
> 
> ...


This makes sense, and it reminds me of something I saw on a documentary once, of this tribe in South America (I think), where the men and women lived sort of separately, and had sex with eachother with NO restrictions/commitments, and the narrator said that that made it so everyone had a communal sense of responsibility for everyone else, because each of the children could have been any of the male members' offspring, so they were viewed as equally important to each of them -- I thought it was such an interesting way to maintain the function and prosperity of their society!

But I do think it's human nature to be "possessive", to develop more exclusive attraction for one person, so to speak - not all the time, obviously, but from what I've seen, at least frequently...I wanted to ask the people studying that tribe if that ever happened within that group, and how they dealt with it.

It's interesting that certain CNM relationships become like their own little communities/tribes, too!!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

maquiscat said:


> By you second question, I am guessing you mean when there is a couple and an outside individual desires one but not the other.
> 
> It all really depends upon the existing relationships and what they've agreed upon. There are all kinds of groupings. And it can get more complicated when there are both relationships as well as play (sex) partners.
> 
> ...


Thanks for answering!

It's an offshoot of a question I asked of an in-law, who swung for a time. Which I know is totally different. I'm fascinated by the mechanics of this kind of stuff.

What I asked him is if he took his girlfriend to another couple's house, and they want his girlfriend, but not him, what happens? Do they both leave? Does he sit on the couch and wait while the other three do their thing? How does everyone make sure someone's not 'left out?'

In a poly scenario, I could see that being even more problematic - especially for the monogamous folks who opt out by their own decision. Or if someone gets 'opted out' because they're deemed not as attractive or something.

The complexity seems like a big challenge to manage, as do everyone's feelings!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

As'laDain said:


> Not quite sure what you mean...
> 
> When one is mono and the other poly? My girlfriends fiance is mono, and my girlfriend is poly... They worked it out between them.
> 
> Or are you assuming that with most poly relationships everyone is dating everyone else? If so, well, it rarely happens that way. That gets exhausting.


What I mean is if one couple is attracted to another couple, but one of them gets rejected. Let's say billie and suzie go meet up with bobbie and jane. Suzie's a babe, and both bobbie and jane are into her, but say no thanks to billie. How do you navigate that?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Marduk said:


> What I mean is if one couple is attracted to another couple, but one of them gets rejected. Let's say billie and suzie go meet up with bobbie and jane. Suzie's a babe, and both bobbie and jane are into her, but say no thanks to billie. How do you navigate that?


That is a situation that comes up more with swingers, and we arent swingers, so im not sure. 

I have never actually looked for another partner, casual or otherwise. Since i am also demisexual, that kinda precludes casual relationships anyway...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

As'laDain said:


> That is a situation that comes up more with swingers, and we arent swingers, so im not sure.
> 
> I have never actually looked for another partner, casual or otherwise. Since i am also demisexual, that kinda precludes casual relationships anyway...


Hmm.

I guess what I'm really asking about here is that there's always the potential for someone to be left out. Probably for all kinds of reasons. Is there a group dynamic or something that counterbalances this?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

As'laDain said:


> That is a situation that comes up more with swingers, and we arent swingers, so im not sure.
> 
> I have never actually looked for another partner, casual or otherwise. *Since i am also demisexual, that kinda precludes casual relationships anyway...*



What do you mean by this...? I'm not sure what "demisexual" is...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> What do you mean by this...? I'm not sure what "demisexual" is...





> A demisexual is a person who does not experience sexual attraction unless they form a strong emotional connection with someone. It's more commonly seen in but by no means confined to romantic relationships.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Marduk said:


> Hmm.
> 
> I guess what I'm really asking about here is that there's always the potential for someone to be left out. Probably for all kinds of reasons. Is there a group dynamic or something that counterbalances this?


This would be a serious issue for me -- I know that I wouldn't handle being the "non-chosen" person well at all...!

This is why I think these types of relationships are embarked upon by VERY brave, secure people!!!

And I find the process through which partners in open relationships sort out HOW they are going to go forward, and HOW each person sets their boundaries and tries to meet their own needs as well as those of their partners, really interesting and a great learning experience for monogamous relationships as well!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> This would be a serious issue for me -- I know that I wouldn't handle being the "non-chosen" person well at all...!
> 
> This is why I think these types of relationships are embarked upon by VERY brave, secure people!!!
> 
> And I find the process through which partners in open relationships sort out HOW they are going to go forward, and HOW each person sets their boundaries and tries to meet their own needs as well as those of their partners, really interesting and a great learning experience for monogamous relationships as well!


I'm just thinking about the standard "open marriage" story. Couple decides to open up, wife gets 67 lovers the first week, and husband struggles to find a single other person for a year or whatever.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Marduk said:


> I'm just thinking about the standard "open marriage" story. Couple decides to open up, wife gets 67 lovers the first week, and husband struggles to find a single other person for a year or whatever.



Hmm...and this fact may call into question your "there are no differences whatsoever between the sexual drives of men and women" opinion...?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> Hmm...and this fact may call into question your "there are no differences whatsoever between the sexual drives of men and women" opinion...?


What I'm saying is that's the standard story, not that it's true, which it may be or may not be. But I do think there are people that naturally attract other people more than some - and those some are naturally going to get left behind in a poly scenario, one would think. 

And one person is always going to be more motivated than the other. Or enter into deep relationships easier. Or whatever.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Interesting thread.

Thanks for opening it OP.

Alien culture to me but interesting to study.:smile2:


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Marduk said:


> What I'm saying is that's the standard story, not that it's true, which it may be or may not be. But I do think there are people that naturally attract other people more than some - and those some are naturally going to get left behind in a poly scenario, one would think.
> 
> And one person is always going to be more motivated than the other. Or enter into deep relationships easier. Or whatever.


Maybe...maybe...

OR - and I'm just spit-ballin' here - it might be possible that your opinion on that is not completely, 100%, absolutely correct...? 

:wink2:


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

As'laDain said:


> That is a situation that comes up more with swingers, and we arent swingers, so im not sure.
> 
> I have never actually looked for another partner, casual or otherwise. Since i am also *demisexual*, that kinda precludes casual relationships anyway...


Had to look that up.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

Marduk said:


> What I mean is if one couple is attracted to another couple, but one of them gets rejected. Let's say billie and suzie go meet up with bobbie and jane. Suzie's a babe, and both bobbie and jane are into her, but say no thanks to billie. How do you navigate that?


Depends on the individuals. 
Referring to swinging Some in the lifestyle called it snobbery. 

Many I’ve talked with quit going to swing parties because of snobbery and elitism. 

As one said all sex feels good and to exclude someone who is clean, and healthy is cliqueish and more about egotism than the pleasure and fun.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

red oak said:


> Depends on the individuals.
> Referring to swinging Some in the lifestyle called it snobbery.
> 
> Many I’ve talked with quit going to swing parties because of snobbery and elitism.
> ...


Fascinating. Thank you for this. Always been curious.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

Marduk said:


> Fascinating. Thank you for this. Always been curious.


I forget to mention many have left if they only wanted one of a couple. 

We have never swung per se but have talked and met with couples to discuss it but never engaged for lack of time to develop a proper friendship on both sides. 
Most we have talked with want an actual friendship. 

If we would have rejected one of the people in the couple, or they one of us it would have been same as rejecting the marriage of either party. 

That was simply what we ran across.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

red oak said:


> Depends on the individuals.
> Referring to swinging Some in the lifestyle called it snobbery.
> 
> Many I’ve talked with quit going to swing parties because of snobbery and elitism.
> ...



I like this answer (and thought process)!! And it makes sense to me - chemistry and sex shouldn't ONLY be about finding someone physically attractive...the reality is, most people ARE attractive, actually!

How many times have you met someone who doesn't become attractive until you get to know them (or the reverse!)...??


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## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

So nice to see this topic being discussed openly. 
I'm actually surprised at how well it's being accepted on this site, as I feel that many on here seem to confuse poly, swinging, open, cnm etc with the desire to cheat.

I have no questions (apart from how to make those feelings go away again. To which there is no answer) and just wanted to show my appreciation of the subject and those contributing to the topic. Thank you


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Ok.

Poly want a cracker? (not to be asked south of the Mason - Dixon line)


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Marduk said:


> I'm just thinking about the standard "open marriage" story. Couple decides to open up, wife gets 67 lovers the first week, and husband struggles to find a single other person for a year or whatever.


In our case, it has been just the opposite... i have had three other partners that just kinda happened, and my wife tried dating for a couple years and wasn't really able to find anyone.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Cletus said:


> Ok.
> 
> Poly want a cracker? (not to be asked south of the Mason - Dixon line)


Lolol!!!

Your jokes fit your namesake... :wink2:


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

As'laDain said:


> In our case, it has been just the opposite... i have had three other partners that just kinda happened, and my wife tried dating for a couple years and wasn't really able to find anyone.


She couldn't find anyone who was interested in HER, or who she was interested in...?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Marduk said:


> Hmm.
> 
> I guess what I'm really asking about here is that there's always the potential for someone to be left out. Probably for all kinds of reasons. Is there a group dynamic or something that counterbalances this?



You seem to think that polyamorous relationships are everyone involved with everyone else... that is very rarely the case. 

I am involved with my wife and my girlfriend. My wife is only involved with me at the moment, but also dates. My girlfriend is involved with her fiance. Her fiance is only involved with her. 

Its called an "N" configuration in polyamory circles, where my girlfriend and i are the joints at either side of the slanted line in the middle of the letter. 

My wife is not involved with my girlfriend or her fiance, just as my girlfriends fiance is not involved with me or my wife.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

LisaDiane said:


> She couldn't find anyone who was interested in HER, or who she was interested in...?


A little of both. But, she has met everyone through online dating. I have met everyone through shared interest groups, like hobbies. I never really looked for partners, i just hit it off with people who i already knew i had stuff in common with. 

My wife has no interest in hook ups, and most men lose interest as soon as they realize that.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

As'laDain said:


> You seem to think that polyamorous relationships are everyone involved with everyone else... that is very rarely the case.
> 
> I am involved with my wife and my girlfriend. My wife is only involved with me at the moment, but also dates. My girlfriend is involved with her fiance. Her fiance is only involved with her.
> 
> ...


I see!!! So when you say "involved", are you only talking about sexual contact...? Or do you mean that there is no social/emotional contact with everyone together either?


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

LisaDiane said:


> I like this answer (and thought process)!! And it makes sense to me - chemistry and sex shouldn't ONLY be about finding someone physically attractive...the reality is, most people ARE attractive, actually!
> 
> How many times have you met someone who doesn't become attractive until you get to know them (or the reverse!)...??


If I don’t like something about someone when I first meet they are unlikely to grow on me. 

Its more about attitude, personality, and whether they come across as trustworthy. 

True beauty comes from within.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Marduk said:


> As'laDain said:
> 
> 
> > That is a situation that comes up more with swingers, and we arent swingers, so im not sure.
> ...


Swingers are usually of quite a different mindset than poly folks. Since swinging is about sex and not love (though of course there can be overlap there), swingers typically have a more specific way of choosing potential playmates. Namely, it’s all about attraction. So most swingers usually have some sense on if there will be attraction to each other or not before they even meet.

Unless they meet in person such as at a sex club. In that case it’s an immediate decision in the moment, just yes I’m into you or not.

Swingers seem to have a certain ability to accept not being chosen. They don’t feel it like being rejected in the same way other daters may feel it.

They also seem to take a lot of joy out of known their partner has matched up with someone, even if they did not.

So let’s say a couple go to a sex club to swing and one of them is invited to get down with another couple or group but the other partner is not invited. Usually the not chosen partner is not feeling left out or rejected, because their partner got to experience something fun (hopefully) and they live vicariously through that.

Though this is not always true and there are swingers who feel left out and jealous. If they continue to feel this way, usually they opt out of the lifestyle because it doesn’t work for them. Again, the ones who are in it as a lifestyle tend to have a different perspective though.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

As'laDain said:


> Its called an "N" configuration in polyamory circles, where my girlfriend and i are the joints at either side of the slanted line in the middle of the letter.


Also "Z" and "Joined V" are other descriptors I've encountered.

I'll address other posts later, but this was quick enough to comment on.

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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

red oak said:


> If I don’t like something about someone when I first meet they are unlikely to grow on me.
> 
> Its more about attitude, personality, and whether they come across as trustworthy.
> 
> True beauty comes from within.


Well, when I was younger, that happened to me more...I didn't think a boy was cute until I got to know him!

Now, as I've gotten older, I've realized that I find almost ALL men attractive in some way...Lol!!


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> The rejection analogy that you gave doesn't really reach my particular issues that I brought up, because I am talking mainly about SEXUAL rejection, not emotional or physical (as in, spending time with someone else) - .... -- sex isn't flippant and superficial for me, it's deep and transformative and a level of vulnerability that I'm not willing to experience with anyone but someone who is My Favorite Person, and I'm theirs. I can share them in every other way, except sexually.


This is valid and alright. I guess I just want to make sure that you understand that such an action on your partner's part isn't necessarily a rejection of you. For example, let's say he is into some kind of BDSM play and you are not (you may be for all I know, I'm just making an example). He still desires and wants the vanilla sex with you, but he's not getting the one need met by you and it's one you won't/can't do. It not a rejection to seek that which you can't provide unless he's is trying to get it all in one package, so to speak.

This is not to say that there is anything invalid in wanting to be sexually, or even romantically monogamous. I'm just pointing out that being non monogamous is not necessarily rejection. And even among polys, sex is not necessarily flippant and/or casual. Among open relationships possibly, but polys can be in closed relationships among the however many numbers there is.



> Only in the sense of local people gathering to learn. I DO really like about the poly lifestyle is how much the partners all work on COMMUNICATION and OPENNESS/HONESTY, and how there is no need for anyone to feel ashamed for asking for what they need in their relationships -- and actually, although honesty really is a requirement for ALL relationships to be successful, partners in poly relationships can't pretend like partners in monogamous relationships can, or else they are working against themselves...it seems like poly partners hold honesty as the core of their relationships in the same way monogamous partners hold fidelity as the core of theirs!


I don't want to sugar coat poly or other forms of CNM. Within the community we have problems with communication, openness and even honesty. Granted there is less issue with honesty when it comes to partners, but it's not like we've gotten rid of cheating among us either.



> It might be a good idea for ALL people, monogamous and poly, to go to one of your classes so they could better understand how important honesty and communication are for every relationship to succeed!!!


My class is probably not the best for that particular subject. There is a reason I tend to point people to A Touch of Flavor for their podcasts and such. They have the teaching experience on the broader array of subjects within this context, as well as advice to applies across the board, mono and poly. I just cover that basics and show how some forms off CNM are not about or not only about sex.

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Marduk said:


> It's an offshoot of a question I asked of an in-law, who swung for a time. Which I know is totally different. I'm fascinated by the mechanics of this kind of stuff.


Swinging is part of CNM. It isn't poly, but one can do/be both. It's one of the reasons I noted that the exact nature of the situation can bring about a variety of answers.





> In a poly scenario, I could see that being even more problematic - especially for the monogamous folks who opt out by their own decision. Or if someone gets 'opted out' because they're deemed not as attractive or something.


Some couples do try to date as a single unit, and that really isn't advisable. Individuals form their own relationships and they simply can't be forced. It will cause strife. Sure, go for it, try to find that one who will work with all in the current unit. But it's best to enter into poly knowing there is a chance that your metamour and you will not get along and become partners.





> The complexity seems like a big challenge to manage, as do everyone's feelings!


It can get very complex, and the more people involved the more so it gets. Chains can be a little more simpler. You only have to deal with your partner and the metamour(s) they are seeing that you are not. But when you get into actual units, then such complication grows exponentially.

For a couple there is only one dynamic: A&B.

For a triad there is:
A&B
B&C
A&C
A&B&C

And yes you have to account for all four dynamics. The triad also works for a cohabitating V as well, there is just a sexual dynamic missing between one pair.

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Marduk said:


> What I mean is if one couple is attracted to another couple, but one of them gets rejected. Let's say billie and suzie go meet up with bobbie and jane. Suzie's a babe, and both bobbie and jane are into her, but say no thanks to billie. How do you navigate that?


With care and communication. It may be that Suzie will, reluctantly, not continue with Bobbie and Jane, because it's more important to her, and maybe Billie, that any additional partners be into them both. They might need emotional commitment without necessarily sexual. I am answering from a poly view point since the swinging/open aspect was covered already by another. On the other hand Billie might be alright if the other couple is making Suzie happy, as long as he(?) is still allowed to persue his own relationships, which may or may not be into Suzie. 

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Marduk said:


> Hmm.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess what I'm really asking about here is that there's always the potential for someone to be left out. Probably for all kinds of reasons. Is there a group dynamic or something that counterbalances this?


Communication about boundaries and expectations, is about all. Making sure everyone is on the same page before you even start looking. When I meet a new girl, and we develop to the point where we might start dating, I make sure, if she hasn't found out already, she knows of my spouses, and they of her. They go into it knowing she might not have an interest in them, and she enters into it knowing that they are a part of my life and are not going anywhere anytime soon.

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Marduk said:


> I'm just thinking about the standard "open marriage" story. Couple decides to open up, wife gets 67 lovers the first week, and husband struggles to find a single other person for a year or whatever.


Part of this is due to how a highly visible portion of males act online and on dating sites. I created a female profile once as an experiment, and within minutes I had gotten dozens of request and like and such. My actual profile got a few looks and that was it.

Males will throw themselves at women and they are not usually nice or subtle in doing so (gods, the number of **** pics!). The nice males get lost in the onslaught. Women don't even have to try.

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> Hmm...and this fact may call into question your "there are no differences whatsoever between the sexual drives of men and women" opinion...?


There is a difference between drive and willingness to interact in certain ways. Also a difference in the odds of a response when looking for additional partners.

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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

As'laDain said:


> A little of both. But, she has met everyone through online dating. I have met everyone through shared interest groups, like hobbies. I never really looked for partners, i just hit it off with people who i already knew i had stuff in common with.
> 
> My wife has no interest in hook ups, and most men lose interest as soon as they realize that.


How do you broker that conversation? You're doing a hobby, meet someone you're interested in, and then ask them out... but explain that you're married and also have a girlfriend? How does that go?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

red oak said:


> I forget to mention many have left if they only wanted one of a couple.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is indeed one viewpoint, but not the only one. I may be attracted to women, but not to all women. So a given woman might not be attractive to me even though her husband is to my wife. The problem with the interaction is when trying to tie my attractions to those of my wife. As someone noted before, in some groups, the "rejected" ones just go on to find someone else who does match their attractions. This is the healthier attitude. There is merit in trying to see that both have a good time and have their needs met, but yeah, in some groups, they are snobbish about an even swap everytime. This assumes a couples only swinging group.

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

As'laDain said:


> I have met everyone through shared interest groups, like hobbies.


I personally have found this to be the most successful approach.

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I see!!! So when you say "involved", are you only talking about sexual contact...? Or do you mean that there is no social/emotional contact with everyone together either?


Both and neither. Polyamory is about the relationship, whether or not sex is involved. You can have a purely romantic relationship with one person and a romantic/sexual relationship with another. A purely sexual relationship is typically seen under the open/swing part of CNM.

Not everyone has to be apart of all others' lives. That is how many chains operate. A is only involved with B. B is involved with both C and D as well as A. C is also involved with E, but not with D. D is involved with F, but only emotionally since F is asexual (no sex drive).

The combinations are limitless. And the sexual combinations don't always match the romantic ones. I think I might have noted earlier that romantically my spouses and I are a quad, but sexually we are an "N".

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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Marduk said:


> How do you broker that conversation? You're doing a hobby, meet someone you're interested in, and then ask them out... but explain that you're married and also have a girlfriend? How does that go?


It just comes out in conversation at some point. The last time i told someone that i am poly, its because someone asked about it specifically.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Marduk said:


> How do you broker that conversation? You're doing a hobby, meet someone you're interested in, and then ask them out... but explain that you're married and also have a girlfriend? How does that go?


No doubt that @As'laDain will answer differently, as there is no one true way.

In my case, typically, we've met and gotten along, and a relationship builds. Mind you I talk about my spouses a lot, so it's rare that they don't know I'm married in a poly quad. If I notice any indication that they might have a romantic interest in me, I will ask if they want to start dating, if I have developed one towards them as well. If it happens in a situation where I've not been really able to bring them up, I will explain first my interest in them, and if I am not rejected at that point, I make sure they understand about my spouses, and they I in no way wish to deceive them about me.

Edit to add: naturally they respond while I do as well. LOL

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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

As'laDain said:


> It just comes out in conversation at some point. The last time i told someone that i am poly, its because someone asked about it specifically.


Do women ever think you’re just lying and trying to cheat on your wife?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Marduk said:


> Do women ever think you’re just lying and trying to cheat on your wife?


So far, nobody has believed that, but they have all known me well before we got involved romantically, met my wife, etc. 

I wouldnt be surprised if some women think that a lot of guys are just cheating on dating sites though. My wife has definitely come across some people online that seem to be cheating, or at least evasive about their partners. She avoids anyone not willing to prove that their partners are actually polyamorous.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> Both and neither. Polyamory is about the relationship, whether or not sex is involved. *You can have a purely romantic relationship with one person and a romantic/sexual relationship with another.* A purely sexual relationship is typically seen under the open/swing part of CNM.
> 
> Not everyone has to be apart of all others' lives. That is how many chains operate. A is only involved with B. B is involved with both C and D as well as A. C is also involved with E, but not with D. D is involved with F, but only emotionally since F is asexual (no sex drive).
> 
> ...



What is the difference between what you call a purely romantic relationship, and a romantic/sexual relationship...? Because to me, romance always includes sex, or leads to it...but it's different in poly relationships...?

(I have more responses to your excellent posts, but don't have time yet)


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

> For example, I am in a polycule of 2 women and 2 men, myself included. Romantically speaking we all love one another. Sexually speaking, one wife and one husband are monogamous. I am not sexually attracted to my husband, but I do love him. He is the same for both myself and my legal wife. His legal wife (my other wife) is actually sexually attracted to all three of us, but my legal wife is not sexually attracted to either of them.


*Note to self:* If you cannot keep straight who’s who in the above scenario, you are not smart enough to be polyamorous. :wink2: Stick to one person at a time Spicy.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

My experience as a poly person was both wonderful and difficult. I eventually realized that although I may be poly on some level, I am mono emotionally and physically. This mono level became my preference.

But I still have my unique understanding of the poly life. I lived it and I saw first hand how it can work for others (and myself for a time). 

For years now I have been mono, but I have still been an advocate of any chosen lifestyle among consenting adults.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> What is the difference between what you call a purely romantic relationship, and a romantic/sexual relationship...? Because to me, romance always includes sex, or leads to it...but it's different in poly relationships...?


Not in poly per se, but that is where you are most likely to encounter such. By now I hope you would have run into reference at least of asexual people. People who either have no sex drive, or have no particular sexual attraction to either sex. But these people are still capable of romantic feelings. They love but do not sexually desire. The ideal would be asexuals falling in love with each other, but sadly the world seems to like to run against the ideal. So poly or open is a way where an asexual can have a partner, or partners if they are poly themselves, and their partner can still get their sexual needs met.

I really blame our over romantising (sp?) of romance itself. Romantic attractions are not always sex charged, even if the couple engage in sex. So with me, I love my husband more than a brother, or a super close friend. It is very akin to what I feel for my wives. Just no desire to do the horizontal mombo with him. 



> (I have more responses to your excellent posts, but don't have time yet)


No worries. It's not like this thread has a limited time engagement.

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Spicy said:


> *Note to self:* If you cannot keep straight who’s who in the above scenario, you are not smart enough to be polyamorous. :wink2: Stick to one person at a time Spicy.


Is this a general warning, or something directly to me?

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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

maquiscat said:


> Is this a general warning, or something directly to me?
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


I was just being goofy...”Note to self” (me). :grin2:


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> My experience as a poly person was both wonderful and difficult. I eventually realized that although I may be poly on some level, I am mono emotionally and physically. This mono level became my preference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have always said that everyone is capable of having romantic and/or sexual attractions to more than one other person at the same time within diminishing their love and attraction to their mate/SO. That, however, does not mean they are capable of handling multiple relationships at the same time. Most people are naturally monogamous, and that's great. Polys are just the relationship equivalent of left handed people. Abnormal in the statistical sense, but still alright and normal.

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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

maquiscat said:


> I have always said that everyone is capable of having romantic and/or sexual attractions to more than one other person at the same time within diminishing their love and attraction to their mate/SO. That, however, does not mean they are capable of handling multiple relationships at the same time. Most people are naturally monogamous, and that's great. Polys are just the relationship equivalent of left handed people. Abnormal in the statistical sense, but still alright and normal.
> 
> k


I’m also left handed!


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Spicy said:


> I was just being goofy...”Note to self” (me). :grin2:


Gotcha. Although I will say that anything more than 3 in a unit where all are with each other is rare even among polys. Chains, are common enough but they are rarely involved with their paramours. Most people can easily follow a triad or a V relationship.

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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

OP et al,

I suppose I’m “naturally monogamous”, though I can imagine a polyamory lifestyle works for some, and can bring positive experiences to one’s life. (Obviously, there are risks too, and how to navigate such would be very foreign to me).

I am curious, if you’ve seen folks attempt to leverage CNM to make viable/bearable a sexless/loveless/affectionless/intimacy-starved marriage, a marriage that continues to exist “for the kids” or for some other non-romantic reason. Do you come across lonely folks in your classes or socially who have been given “a hall pass”, looking to find a way to connect with some one, perhaps someone in a similar situation? Does it ever work out, in a healthy way, given the emotionally “scarce” situation that might be motivating their interest?

I wonder if the vast majority of those living polyamory or more generally CNM are approaching it from a relationship that has some life to it, perhaps seeking to enhance a positive relationship, as opposed to trying to live a little despite the pathology in their current relationship?

Not sure why I’m asking, because I seriously doubt it would work for me. Besides, I’m close enough to my youngest leaving the nest, I’m sure it would be simplest to file and declare an IHS for the next year; no need to complicate my exit with something my kids might not be able to comprehend. Even then, dating anytime over the next year seems unlikely.

But, over the years, the thought has occurred to me it’s unfortunate that it’s not socially acceptable to have an extra-marital romantic and sexual relationship between partners from marriages that aren’t fulfilling, when all involved consent to and prefer such an alternate arrangement for whatever reasons. And regrettable that there is no safe and socially acceptable mechanism to find such would-be partners.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Anything.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Anything.


That is a statement, not a question. 

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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

maquiscat said:


> That is a statement, not a question.


I've asked anything... :smile2: silliness apart, CNM looks very interesting as a concept... any books you can suggest?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

PieceOfSky said:


> OP et al,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The first thing I will say, and I want to emphasize this to all reading, not just PieceOfSky, is that entering into any kind of CNM from monogamy with the thought that it will fix a marriage, or make life better will almost always fail. You are trying to fix symptoms, not the problem itself.

Relationship skills are just that, skills. We do not naturally know what we need to, to keep a relationship going. A lot of us get lucky and manage to learn at least some of these our lifetime, but you can learn them, and not just on your own.

In situations like this, my first advice is to see a councilor or therapist or relationship coach. I know I bring up Touch Of Flavor enough that it seems like I work for them (I don't), but I have enjoyed their advice, and I use a lot of their material.

Also consider the kids. Staying together is not always the best for them. I don't know enough about your situation to say one way or another, and that is really something to discuss with someone more professional. I know when I am out of my league, which is why I am not doing anything beyond a basics class.





> But, over the years, the thought has occurred to me it’s unfortunate that it’s not socially acceptable to have an extra-marital romantic and sexual relationship between partners from marriages that aren’t fulfilling, when all involved consent to and prefer such an alternate arrangement for whatever reasons. And regrettable that there is no safe and socially acceptable mechanism to find such would-be partners.


Like many things, it is becoming more acceptable to not care what is acceptable. Even some of the dating site are adding poly to their list of options. While we are far from getting multiple legal marriage recognized, and to be honest, the overall community isn't pushing for it right now, we are entering more and more into the mainstream, as least as far as LBGT and BDSM are as well.

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I've asked anything... :smile2: silliness apart, CNM looks very interesting as a concept... any books you can suggest?


No you didn't, because you forgot the question mark. 

My personal favorite is More Than Two. It's currently the only one I own (and I'm sad to say haven't finished yet. My sci-fi/fantasy list is so long!), but I am aware of others. While looking up titles to make sure I got them right, I ran across this:

http://www.kamaladevi.com/6068/top-10-list-polyamory-books

It has the books I was aware of, except my personal fav, and some others. Keep in mind that some of these books focus on only one aspect or another of CNM. Polyamory, swing, and open relationships are all under the umbrella of CNM.

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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

maquiscat said:


> No you didn't, because you forgot the question mark.


 ah, that's were my "sense of humor" failed... :laugh:



maquiscat said:


> My personal favorite is More Than Two. It's currently the only one I own (and I'm sad to say haven't finished yet. My sci-fi/fantasy list is so long!), but I am aware of others. While looking up titles to make sure I got them right, I ran across this:
> 
> My Top 10 Favorite Books on Polyamory, Open Relationships and Ethical Non-Monogamy - KamalaDeviKamalaDevi
> 
> It has the books I was aware of, except my personal fav, and some others. Keep in mind that some of these books focus on only one aspect or another of CNM. Polyamory, swing, and open relationships are all under the umbrella of CNM.


Thanks for that... we'll have a look!


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> ah, that's were my "sense of humor" failed... :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for that... we'll have a look!


Sex at dawn, is a good book mostly dealing with history, and cultures. 

The current dominant mono culture is actually an enforced alternative lifestyle based on agriculture in opposition to permaculture.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

maquiscat said:


> ...entering into any kind of CNM from monogamy with the thought that it will fix a marriage, or make life better will almost always fail. You are trying to fix symptoms, not the problem itself.


I guess fixing a marriage is not what I was wondering about. Making life better is, but not naively (yes, effort is required to eliminate ignorance, fix destructive or unhelpful and unhealthy ways of being together and being alone). I’d agree, the question of what is best for the kids is not as simple as some believe (or want to believe). 

However, there are folks, I suspect many more than most realize, who live in dead marriages waiting for children to grow up and finances to stabilize, etc. Some mutually agree to open marriages, for at least the interim. I’m wondering, do you encounter them in the poly social circles, if there is such a thing? And what percentage of poly folks are in that situation would you guess? Do you see successes, especially with those who have done the work to clean up their side of the street, but still find their primary relationship unsolvable.

Another way of putting it: if some such soul wandered down to the local polyamory society meetup, would he or she be a fish alone out of water, or find several others coming from a similar situation?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> Another way of putting it: if some such soul wandered down to the local polyamory society meetup, would he or she be a fish alone out of water, or find several others coming from a similar situation?


Interested in the answer too!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Spicy said:


> *Note to self:* If you cannot keep straight who’s who in the above scenario, you are not smart enough to be polyamorous. :wink2: Stick to one person at a time Spicy.


The closest I ever really got to it was FWB kinda scenarios. Even then it just was too dramatic eventually, and someone always ended up getting hurt. Including me.

And it seems like a lot of effort. One relationship is hard enough for me.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

I can tell you what i see...

There are indeed some people who choose CNM because their bedroom is just dead. One married couple that my wife met at our local polyamory social group described themselves as best friends and nesting partners. They have no desire to split and genuinely enjoy their time together. But, the wife has a high sex drive and the husband has zero sex drive, due to medical issues. Polyamory was their way of getting their needs met while staying together. 

They were the only couple there like that, and they were both dating other people in the group. I did not get the impression that they seemed out of place, even though there are usually 30-50 other people at each meet up. They mainly seem to focused on sharing joyful moments with their partners rather than focusing on what they were missing from each other. 

Generally speaking, most people in our group have pretty good relationships with their partners, and have been in their relationships for quite a long time. There are always going to be stories of people rushing into it without thinking, or doing it as an effort to "save their marriage", but they generally don't stick around very long. 

As a side note, the polyamory group is not a dating group. While people do sometimes partner up with other members of the group, its usually just a place for us to get together with friends and talk about stuff that we typically can't talk about with coworkers, friends, and family.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

PieceOfSky said:


> I guess fixing a marriage is not what I was wondering about. Making life better is, but not naively (yes, effort is required to eliminate ignorance, fix destructive or unhelpful and unhealthy ways of being together and being alone). I’d agree, the question of what is best for the kids is not as simple as some believe (or want to believe).
> 
> However, there are folks, I suspect many more than most realize, who live in dead marriages waiting for children to grow up and finances to stabilize, etc. Some mutually agree to open marriages, for at least the interim. I’m wondering, do you encounter them in the poly social circles, if there is such a thing? And what percentage of poly folks are in that situation would you guess? Do you see successes, especially with those who have done the work to clean up their side of the street, but still find their primary relationship unsolvable.
> 
> Another way of putting it: if some such soul wandered down to the local polyamory society meetup, would he or she be a fish alone out of water, or find several others coming from a similar situation?





PieceOfSky said:


> I guess fixing a marriage is not what I was wondering about. Making life better is, but not naively (yes, effort is required to eliminate ignorance, fix destructive or unhelpful and unhealthy ways of being together and being alone). I’d agree, the question of what is best for the kids is not as simple as some believe (or want to believe).
> 
> However, there are folks, I suspect many more than most realize, who live in dead marriages waiting for children to grow up and finances to stabilize, etc. Some mutually agree to open marriages, for at least the interim. I’m wondering, do you encounter them in the poly social circles, if there is such a thing? And what percentage of poly folks are in that situation would you guess? Do you see successes, especially with those who have done the work to clean up their side of the street, but still find their primary relationship unsolvable.
> 
> Another way of putting it: if some such soul wandered down to the local polyamory society meetup, would he or she be a fish alone out of water, or find several others coming from a similar situation?


Keep in mind that you are delving into very complicated territory here, one that you'll want a relationship councilor at least to help you with. But I can give you a start.

First I'm going to side track here and note about marriage. Essentially marriage can be broken down into three basic types; Legal, Religious, and Social. Keep in mind that these types can also be further broken down. For example, a Wiccan marriage and a Jewish marriage would be different and either might not recognize the other. Or a Catholic marriage and a Methodist marriage could also be different and may or may not recognize each other.

With that said, if both people have come to the conclusion that all but the legal marriage is dead, and they are agreeing to open the marriage, not to fix it, but because they need the legal aspects for now but wish to have their individual needs met, then yes, it is possible for that to work. I have never encountered such personally, but I have heard of such via internet groups and such. But overall it is still not recommend. I could not even hazzard a guess at how many would do such, and probably not many would join up with the local community. There are plenty of poly folks who are not part of the larger socializing community, although we still count them as part of the whole. So I am not sure how many such you would encounter in a poly Meetup group.

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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

Cletus said:


> Ok.
> 
> Poly want a cracker? (not to be asked south of the Mason - Dixon line)


May Corona-Chan pay you and all of your loved one's an intimate encounter very, VERY soon.

In the sense of the thread, mind you.:smile2:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

@maquiscat

I haven't read every post but wondered if you have known people who had more than one mate and all of the same sex.

Have you known men with multiple wives or women with multiple husbands?

Like some of the old biblical stories or more recent mormon practices in this country?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> I've asked anything... :smile2: silliness apart, CNM looks very interesting as a concept... any books you can suggest?


A lot of the poly people I know recommend "The Ethical Sl.ut." You'll have to Google it because the profanity filters will render useless any link I post, because it will have the word **** in it.

I apologize to the moderators and the profanity filter gods and ask that you please don't ban me 

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> @maquiscat
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, and while I don't know any personally in my local area, I am aware of polycules that consist of only one sex entirely. Mind you not all poly consists of people in a marriage. All polygamy is polyamory but not all polyamory is polygamy.

Also, and I say this because I'm not sure from the writing if this is a misconception on your part or simply the exams you choose, not all poly are Mormons, not even a majority. The poly community comes from all faiths and and even the atheists.

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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> ah, that's were my "sense of humor" failed... :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for that... we'll have a look!


:banghead: I worry about you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

maquiscat said:


> Yes, and while I don't know any personally in my local area, I am aware of polycules that consist of only one sex entirely. Mind you not all poly consists of people in a marriage. All polygamy is polyamory but not all polyamory is polygamy.
> 
> Also, and I say this because I'm not sure from the writing if this is a misconception on your part or simply the exams you choose, not all poly are Mormons, not even a majority. The poly community comes from all faiths and and even the atheists.
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


The mormons were just an example.

I'm curious about the different mindsets that allow for the different groupings.

It is interesting that some can accept others having sex with their mate while others won't. 

I'm extremely territorial, about sex, where other males are concerned but not so much towards women.

I'm exclusively monogamous for religious beliefs but could perceive being poly if I wasn't.

I'm afraid I would be biased towards having more wives who were sexually exclusive with me being the only male.

I couldn't see it working under what most would consider normal circumstances and I probably would never seriously entertain the idea anyway because Mrs. Conan is extremely territorial as well.:wink2:


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> The mormons were just an example.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am very territorial, like Mrs. Conan. I would NOT tolerate my man being with other women.

I find it somewhat infuriating that in my local kink community, many of the poly people have a "holier-than-thou" attitude, thinking that they are more highly evolved than monogamous people like me. They can be quite condescending about it sometimes. (Some people are very cool, though and respect my monogamous nature.)

ETA: @maquiscat I want to make it clear that this is not my opinion of all poly people... it's just something I see in my local community.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> I am very territorial, like Mrs. Conan. I would NOT tolerate my man being with other women.
> 
> I find it somewhat infuriating that in my local kink community, many of the poly people have a "holier-than-thou" attitude, thinking that they are more highly evolved than monogamous people like me. They can be quite condescending about it sometimes. (Some people are very cool, though and respect my monogamous nature.)
> 
> ETA: @maquiscat I want to make it clear that this is not my opinion of all poly people... it's just something I see in my local community.


Yup. Run into the occasionally self important poly who believes they were more secure, advanced, etc. than me because they shared and I didn't.

It was a pleasant surprise to find some very nice poly's to talk to here on TAM.:grin2:


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

FeministInPink said:


> I am very territorial, like Mrs. Conan. I would NOT tolerate my man being with other women.
> 
> I find it somewhat infuriating that in my local kink community, many of the poly people have a "holier-than-thou" attitude, thinking that they are more highly evolved than monogamous people like me. They can be quite condescending about it sometimes. (Some people are very cool, though and respect my monogamous nature.)
> 
> ETA: @maquiscat I want to make it clear that this is not my opinion of all poly people... it's just something I see in my local community.


You are good to go. I don't think there is a community out there, be it fandom, poly, kink, LBGT, religious, whatever, that doesn't have their elitist component. 

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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> I'm curious about the different mindsets that allow for the different groupings.
> 
> 
> 
> It is interesting that some can accept others having sex with their mate while others won't.


One of the big point I always make is that in poly, and technically within monogamy as well, although extremely rarely, sex does not always enter into the equation. Especially when you have people who are asexual, as in no drive.

For some people, sex falls into two categories; recreational and love making, which is how those who are open tend to think. Plus some people can concept that one is not necessarily limited to one mate. If you don't feel limited to one, then you rarely see a need to limit any of your mates to one.





> I'm extremely territorial, about sex, where other males are concerned but not so much towards women.


Not an uncommon thing, which is why I believe that being poly and mono are analogous to gay and straight respectively. It's seems to be as much a part of many people's nature as sexual orientation.





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