# How Has Husband's Porn Use Impacted Desire For Me?



## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

I am a 40-year-old woman and have been with my husband since we were teenagers. Our marriage is great in many ways. We enjoy each other's company and work well together taking care of our home and family.

Until last year, the only issue in our marriage was sex. When we have it, it's amazing. He always climaxes and I usually do as well. The problem is after the initial honeymoon phase, the frequency went down. My husband usually goes between several days to a few weeks between initiating, although he has occasionally gone several weeks or even months. Then he will want sex two or three times in a week before another dry spell. I have always wanted more regular intimacy. I need sex at least once a week to not be miserable (and more often to be happy). Consequently, I have spent quite a lot of the last two decades sexually frustrated. I used to try to initiate, but if he is not already in the mood, he rarely agrees. He's "too tired," his "stomach hurts," or he's "just not thinking about it right now." Even if he does agree, the sex is never as good as it is when he initiates. (However, I never tell him no and enjoy sex just as much if he is the one to put me in the mood.) So I've learned to wait for the mood to strike him. I've put up with it, believing he was just a lower-drive person than me. However, I have had many conversations with him over the years, particularly because when he's not "in the mood," he also doesn't show me much other physical affection (hugging, kissing, touching), leaving me feeling completely neglected, unloved, and undesirable.

A few years ago, one of these dry spells lasted an entire year! During that time I felt so miserable (both sexually and emotionally neglected), that I fell out of love with him and started seriously considering divorce. I told him and he apologized and said once it had gone on for a while he was afraid to try anything. (There was no reason for him to be afraid, because I never reject him!) But he worked hard to give me more attention and got me to fall back in love with him. Before long our sex life fell back into its normal, unsatisfying frequency.

Then last year, I found out my husband has been lying to me and secretly using porn. I was devastated. We've had many heart-to-hearts over the last several months because I'm trying to understand his behavior. He's admitted to using porn throughout our marriage (even though he knew from the beginning that I didn't approve). Like our sex life, he said he'd use it regularly for a while and then go weeks or months without using it again. He said he doesn't always masturbate to it. Sometimes he would get horny from it and then come to me for release. That makes me feel so used and so undesirable that I want to cry every time I think about it.

After the initial anger and disgust lessened (although it didn't go away), I tried everything in my power to bring my husband's sexual focus back on to me. Several times, I've offered to fulfill (almost) any desire he's gotten from watching porn. But he doesn't seem to have any. I also tried harder to be more attractive. I'd already lost weight and gotten back to my pre-marital, healthy BMI weight. But my thinner body hadn't improved his desire for me. So I bought snugger, sexier clothes and lacy bras and panties, and even took pictures of myself in them (something I'd never done before), so he would have something acceptable to look at if he wanted to get aroused and/or masturbate when I'm not around.

Although I felt much sexier from these changes, his desire only improved slightly. Occasionally something I've worn or one of the photos has really turned him on, but other times he didn't notice, or showed only mild appreciation. During our marital discussions over the past several months, I pointed this out. Several times I told him I didn't feel like he was that attracted to me. He either stayed silent and sad-looking, or put up a half-hearted denial. One day recently, I said I feel a husband should think his wife is one of the sexiest women he's ever seen, an 8 or a 9 (on a scale of 1 to 10), and feel lucky to have her in his bed. He should be highly attracted to her. He finally admitted that he didn't feel that way about me. He said he thinks of me as a 6 or a 7. He immediately changed it to "a *5*, 6, or 7." I was shocked and heartbroken that my husband sees me as so average, especially after all of the effort I'd put into being the sexiest woman I could possibly be. I asked if there was anything I could change to make myself more desirable to him (weight, hair, clothes, make-up, etc.). But he said he didn't know of anything that was his preferred "type." Based on the titles of the porn he's into and the couple of photos I saw, I think his type is very large breasts. He says he likes mine (B-cup), but I think that's just because that's all that's available to him. When I was overweight and/or nursing, I know he showed more interest in their increased size (C-cup).

Recently my husband began putting in more effort to make me happy than he ever has, because he's afraid of losing me. He has been showing me more physical affection and initiating sex more often (about once a week). However, it feels forced at times and I know it won't last. Plus once a week is not really enough. He said he's attracted to me and that he's stopped using porn. But due to his lies, I can't trust he's actually stopped looking at it. Knowing my husband has so little sexual attraction to me and gets more aroused looking at other women, has killed my confidence in my sex appeal (at least where he is concerned--I still think I look HOT!). I've found that I'm not enjoying sex as much or even the other physical affection he has shown me. I feel emotionally detached and less responsive during the experiences instead of emotionally connected and enthusiastic. I feel like no matter how hard I've tried, I'm not good enough, so why try?

So, has my husband's porn use caused decreased attraction and low desire for me--a live, willing woman whose body isn't perfect, but who tries to look and act sexy and loves sex? Or has he always been low-drive and/or not highly attracted to me and porn either hasn't caused any problems in our sex life (other than my own hurt feelings) or has actually helped (by putting him in the mood)? Is my anger and hurt understandable, or am I making too much of things? And if I should just try to move past this, how do I regain my shattered sexual confidence and get back to the flirty, enthusiastic wife I used to be?

Men: Do you understand my husband's behavior? Can you explain it to me?

Women: Do you understand my feelings? How would you feel if you were me? What would you do?

Apologies for the length. Thank you to anyone who has read all this.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Your post is that totally heartbreaking. It makes me sick that his porn use has damaged you and the marriage so much. I totally understand how you feel. I would be the same, especially with all the years of deception and lies. 
I would never put up with a guy who treated me that way by watching porn. 
Porn use makes many discontent with their spouse, I mean how could it not? 

As for what to do I just don't know. In your place I would give him an ultimatum that if he ever watched porn again I was ending the marriage. Nothing will change unless he stops. I see porn as cheating with multiple women so would have no qualms of ending a marriage to such a long term serial cheat. 

Maybe if he does stop for good and you can have some good MC that things may improve. Maybe your self esteem could improve over time. Maybe trust could come back. It's impossible to say.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

No matter what we do, once we pass 35 or have had a child, we can’t compete with a coked-up, nipped and tucked, 22 year old porn star.

When a man decides that’s all he wants, there’s not much you can do. It’s hurtful and cruel and deeply unfair, because there’s no situation where that is done to men and they don’t care how we feel about it.

Some things are worse than being alone.Being someone’s live-in maid and cook is hardly a rewarding and happy life. You may be better off without him. There do exist decent men in the world, I bet you find one sooner than you think.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> I am a 40-year-old woman and have been with my husband since we were teenagers. Our marriage is great in many ways. We enjoy each other's company and work well together taking care of our home and family.
> 
> Until last year, the only issue in our marriage was sex. When we have it, it's amazing. He always climaxes and I usually do as well. The problem is after the initial honeymoon phase, the frequency went down. My husband usually goes between several days to a few weeks between initiating, although he has occasionally gone several weeks or even months. Then he will want sex two or three times in a week before another dry spell. I have always wanted more regular intimacy. I need sex at least once a week to not be miserable (and more often to be happy). Consequently, I have spent quite a lot of the last two decades sexually frustrated. I used to try to initiate, but if he is not already in the mood, he rarely agrees. He's "too tired," his "stomach hurts," or he's "just not thinking about it right now." Even if he does agree, the sex is never as good as it is when he initiates. (However, I never tell him no and enjoy sex just as much if he is the one to put me in the mood.) So I've learned to wait for the mood to strike him. I've put up with it, believing he was just a lower-drive person than me. However, I have had many conversations with him over the years, particularly because when he's not "in the mood," he also doesn't show me much other physical affection (hugging, kissing, touching), leaving me feeling completely neglected, unloved, and undesirable.
> 
> ...


Man here.

your husband’s actions are despicable, disrespectful and downright mean. I see threads like your pop up once a month. I’m at a loss for words every single time.

if his preferences were so important, then why did he marry you? Why did he date you? That’s not fair. Attraction is the first thing anyone is going to notice when they start dating! Who wants to wake up next to someone they aren’t attracted to the rest of their life?!

secondly, you would have no issues finding a quality man that treats you correctly and fulfills what you need. I wouldn’t worry about that at all if you leave your husband. His loss.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> No matter what we do, once we pass 35 or have had a child, we can’t compete with a coked-up, nipped and tucked, 22 year old porn star.
> 
> When a man decides that’s all he wants, there’s not much you can do. It’s hurtful and cruel and deeply unfair, because there’s no situation where that is done to men and they don’t care how we feel about it.
> 
> Some things are worse than being alone.Being someone’s live-in maid and cook is hardly a rewarding and happy life. You may be better off without him. There do exist decent men in the world, I bet you find one sooner than you think.


TM!!!!! This is NOT true. Come on. I don’t know where you are getting this from, but most the men I know do not operate this way. I’m not going to say there aren’t garbage men out there. My wife is 42, post child and I desire her just as much now as when I met her when she was 21.


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## Angie?or… (Nov 15, 2021)

I’m so sorry. I would be crushed, heartbroken and insulted. I think you should get out and look for someone who appreciates and desires you. In your place, I don’t think I would ever be able to feel the same about this man.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It’s a common problem, unfortunately. Some men may decide to change if they feel their marriage depends on it but there are also those who won’t put the effort in regardless of the situation. They don’t want a divorce but they also don’t want to fix the situation they created. You’ll have to decide if you want to spend the rest of your life this way.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Your post is that totally heartbreaking. It makes me sick that his porn use has damaged you and the marriage so much. I totally understand how you feel. I would be the same, especially with all the years of deception and lies.
> I would never put up with a guy who treated me that way by watching porn.
> Porn use makes many discontent with their spouse, I mean how could it not?
> 
> ...


I did give him an ultimatum. Me or the porn. He said he chooses me. He swears he hasn't used it since then. He has told me the things I said about how his porn use made me feel have really stuck with him and made him not want to do it anymore. But I don't trust him. And even if he has stopped, all of those images are still there in his mind. And I'm afraid that such long-term use has affected his ability to get really aroused without it. He seems to be most attracted to me when I'm dressed provocatively with lots of make-up and wearing a push-up bra!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Melinda82 said:


> I did give him an ultimatum. Me or the porn. He said he chooses me. He swears he hasn't used it since then. He has told me the things I said about how his porn use made me feel have really stuck with him and made him not want to do it anymore. But I don't trust him. And even if he has stopped, all of those images are still there in his mind. And I'm afraid that such long-term use has affected his ability to get really aroused without it. He seems to be most attracted to me when I'm dressed provocatively with lots of make-up and wearing a push-up bra!


You are living the end of MY marriage with my EX, almost exactly. I know how painful, lonely, and difficult it is, and I'm sorry you have to go through that.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> No matter what we do, once we pass 35 or have had a child, we can’t compete with a coked-up, nipped and tucked, 22 year old porn star.
> 
> When a man decides that’s all he wants, there’s not much you can do. It’s hurtful and cruel and deeply unfair, because there’s no situation where that is done to men and they don’t care how we feel about it.
> 
> Some things are worse than being alone.Being someone’s live-in maid and cook is hardly a rewarding and happy life. You may be better off without him. There do exist decent men in the world, I bet you find one sooner than you think.


I thought I had one of those decent men. He's wonderful in a lot of ways. I think the porn is a habit that started in his teenage years and he continued thinking that it didn't affect me if I didn't know. He told me, "All men do it," and "All men look at other women." I don't think he knew it was wrong. This is so shocking to me because over the years he rarely has shown any attraction to other women or even admitted another woman was pretty when asked. I'd felt confident that his love for me made him so attracted to me that he didn't even notice other women. Boy, was I wrong.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> I am a 40-year-old woman and have been with my husband since we were teenagers. Our marriage is great in many ways. We enjoy each other's company and work well together taking care of our home and family.
> 
> Until last year, the only issue in our marriage was sex. When we have it, it's amazing. He always climaxes and I usually do as well. The problem is after the initial honeymoon phase, the frequency went down. My husband usually goes between several days to a few weeks between initiating, although he has occasionally gone several weeks or even months. Then he will want sex two or three times in a week before another dry spell. I have always wanted more regular intimacy. I need sex at least once a week to not be miserable (and more often to be happy). Consequently, I have spent quite a lot of the last two decades sexually frustrated. I used to try to initiate, but if he is not already in the mood, he rarely agrees. He's "too tired," his "stomach hurts," or he's "just not thinking about it right now." Even if he does agree, the sex is never as good as it is when he initiates. (However, I never tell him no and enjoy sex just as much if he is the one to put me in the mood.) So I've learned to wait for the mood to strike him. I've put up with it, believing he was just a lower-drive person than me. However, I have had many conversations with him over the years, particularly because when he's not "in the mood," he also doesn't show me much other physical affection (hugging, kissing, touching), leaving me feeling completely neglected, unloved, and undesirable.
> 
> ...


I don't understand your husband at all because he totally damaged his relationship to whack off to others having sex instead of playing with his very willing woman.

I also feel for your situation and I have very defined limits and wouldn't have put up with what you have.

He has damaged his relationship with you and it's no wonder you aren't feeling it with him anymore.

Now I don't know if you can get your mojo back with him or even if you should.

Do other men find you attractive?

I bet they do.

I don't know how to tell you not to let your confidence be messed up because your husband is an idiot.

I'm tempted to tell you to go on dates but it's a jungle out there. You would, I have no doubt, have no problems attracting men.

Your husband has a mental problem and hasn't been healthy for years and that isn't a reflection on your desirability.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Melinda, woman here. Been there, done that. I was sexless for over a decade b/c my exH preferred porn, I was too much work because I didn't get turned on immediately when he was ready to go. He claimed he had ED and I believed him, b/c I saw him and was naked around him all the time and nada. Turns out he just wasn't attracted to me, although he sure liked the benefits of being married to me.

That comment he made about you being a 5-7 was extremely hurtful and uncalled for. What was he thinking?! In hindsight, I have to say that insults aren't good, and his intent might be to break you down if he's feeling inadequate in some way. What does HE look like? Is he hot? Is he good in the sack?

I regret not leaving him earlier and wasting nearly 20 yrs of my life on him. Now I wasn't super fit like you, but I'm attractive enough that I haven't lacked for choice. I'm in a relationship with a very attractive man (more physically and emotionally attractive than my ex-H) who finds me very attractive and is happy to meet my needs.



Melinda82 said:


> I did give him an ultimatum. Me or the porn. He said he chooses me. He swears he hasn't used it since then. He has told me the things I said about how his porn use made me feel have really stuck with him and made him not want to do it anymore. But I don't trust him. And even if he has stopped, all of those images are still there in his mind. And I'm afraid that such long-term use has affected his ability to get really aroused without it. He seems to be most attracted to me when I'm dressed provocatively with lots of make-up and wearing a push-up bra!


Are you two going for therapy? I'd watch his actions to see how they hold up long-term. I wouldn't trust him further than I could throw him until he showed real change.

How old are your kids?


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Man here.
> 
> your husband’s actions are despicable, disrespectful and downright mean. I see threads like your pop up once a month. I’m at a loss for words every single time.
> 
> ...


That's what I started to question. Why did he date me or marry me if he wasn't highly attracted to me? I felt so confident in his attraction early in our relationship. But he could have just settled for me because I was the first girl to show any interest in him, his first girlfriend. Maybe he didn't think he'd find any better. Or maybe he liked my personality enough to make up for the only moderate attraction. Or maybe staring at pictures/videos of other women for decades has warped his attraction.

BTW: I feel like I'm talking to a movie star. I've been reading your posts as well as the other regular posters for months now, trying to guess at what all of you would say if I were to post. It's a little surreal. I can't believe I finally did it!


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Angie?or… said:


> I’m so sorry. I would be crushed, heartbroken and insulted. I think you should get out and look for someone who appreciates and desires you. In your place, I don’t think I would ever be able to feel the same about this man.


Thank you. I think that's my problem. I know he truly loves me. He shows me in so many other ways. He feels really, really bad about all of this. But I just don't think I'll ever see him the same way again.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I can't wrap my head around stuff like this.

A YEAR WITHOUT SEX!!!!?????!!!

You have the patience of Job lady!


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> I did give him an ultimatum. Me or the porn. He said he chooses me. He swears he hasn't used it since then. He has told me the things I said about how his porn use made me feel have really stuck with him and made him not want to do it anymore. But I don't trust him. And even if he has stopped, all of those images are still there in his mind. And I'm afraid that such long-term use has affected his ability to get really aroused without it. He seems to be most attracted to me when I'm dressed provocatively with lots of make-up and wearing a push-up bra!


You are right not to trust him. He will repeat the bad behavior as soon as you 'settle down'.

Your post breaks my heart for you. I can tell you 100% that the things you did to try to fix this are above and beyond perfect. I wouldn't have any suggestion for anything else.



Melinda82 said:


> I still think I look HOT!


I love this, hang on to it. Don't let his behavior change how you feel about yourself.

It seems that you are at your wit end and ready to pull the plug on your marriage.
Good.
So you have an option here to force him into counseling for porn addiction or else you leave.
Or
You can flat out leave him. As others have said, he is cheating on you with other virtual women.
Even the bible would classify this as adultery

I would suggest to shock him. Tell him divorce or focused therapy.
You can't continue in the same way you have been, you deserve much better from your mate.

sidenote: good to see you posting!
See, not so scary after all!
And TAM people are great!
(source: welcome post)


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> TM!!!!! This is NOT true. Come on. I don’t know where you are getting this from, but most the men I know do not operate this way. I’m not going to say there aren’t garbage men out there. My wife is 42, post child and I desire her just as much now as when I met her when she was 21.


This is not true for YOU. It is for many of us who have been used and discarded for younger women. TexasMom is quite accurate in her assessment, there are a lot of men who think that way, even on TAM. Lots of meds advise others in the breakdown of their relationships to get a younger/hotter woman.



Melinda82 said:


> I thought I had one of those decent men. He's wonderful in a lot of ways. I think the porn is a habit that started in his teenage years and he continued thinking that it didn't affect me if I didn't know. He told me, "All men do it," and "All men look at other women." I don't think he knew it was wrong. This is so shocking to me because over the years he rarely has shown any attraction to other women or even admitted another woman was pretty when asked. I'd felt confident that his love for me made him so attracted to me that he didn't even notice other women. Boy, was I wrong.


I thought so so, b/c he was great in other ways. I also bought the "all men do it" crap. 

What are his friends like? What kind of people does he associate with? Do you like them?

I'm asking bc I see similarities in my former situation. My ex used to go to strip clubs when he was single and tried to normalize that with me, I refused. He tried to get me to spend time among swinger friends, even mentioned a few times when some swinger "acquaintance" expressed interest in me. When I found out, I refused to go.

I thought all men were like that, so I had to put up with him. TAM really opened my eyes.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Your husband was (is?) using other women to get sexual satisfaction. If that's not cheating, I don't know what is. You just found out that your husband has been cheating on you for years, while you have been frantically trying to get his attention. What an ass. Stop trying to please your husband and get his attention. You are rewarding him for cheating on you. 
It is perfectly normal that you have lost love and interest in your husband. I wouldn't blame you if you divorced him.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> It’s a common problem, unfortunately. My exH had a porn habit from before we married (he was also a cheater). I grew up in a very religious family where divorce was unheard of so I strongly believed in commitment and I continued that way of thinking for decades (I don’t recommend doing what I did). Some men may decide to change if they feel their marriage depends on it but there are also those who won’t put the effort in regardless of the situation. They don’t want a divorce but they also don’t want to fix the situation they created (my exH was in that category). You’ll have to decide if you want to spend the rest of your life this way.


He knows our marriage depends on him changing. He's really trying to be more affectionate and initiate sex more. If he'd acted this way years ago, I would've been thrilled. But now, knowing of his preference for porn over me, knowing of his only moderate attraction to me, I just feel like he's going through the motions, doing what I want him to do, not doing it because he wants to. I feel completely undesired.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Cynthia said:


> Your husband was (is?) using other women to get sexual satisfaction. If that's not cheating, I don't know what is. You just found out that your husband has been cheating on you for years, while you have been frantically trying to get his attention. What an ass. Stop trying to please your husband and get his attention. You are rewarding him for cheating on you.
> It is perfectly normal that you have lost love and interest in your husband. I wouldn't blame you if you divorced him.


Would probably be her best course of action. Once trust is gone it can never be regained


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> Thank you. I think that's my problem. I know he truly loves me. He shows me in so many other ways. He feels really, really bad about all of this. But I just don't think I'll ever see him the same way again.


Take that with a pound of salt. Liars are good at telling you what they think you want to hear.

Look at his actions. If he continues to respect how you feel about porn and work hard to fix himself, that's love. Saying he loves you and doing nice things for you when it suits him is manipulation.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> He knows our marriage depends on him changing. He's really trying to be more affectionate and initiate sex more. If he'd acted this way years ago, I would've been thrilled. But now, knowing of his preference for porn over me, knowing of his only moderate attraction to me, I just feel like he's going through the motions, doing what I want him to do, not doing it because he wants to. I feel completely undesired.


Don't count on him to change without professional help, he won't.
He will just bide his time until you find yourself here next year.

Don't accept this. Doing what he did before is not good enough!


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> He knows our marriage depends on him changing. He's really trying to be more affectionate and initiate sex more. If he'd acted this way years ago, I would've been thrilled. But now, knowing of his preference for porn over me, knowing of his only moderate attraction to me, I just feel like he's going through the motions, doing what I want him to do, not doing it because he wants to. I feel completely undesired.


Sounds like too little too late.

I really don't understand why some people can't see how unloving their actions are to the person they claim to love and honor. After being removed from that situation, all I can say is, their morals and values are incompatible with those who treat others the way they want to be treated. You'd think of ALL people, your spouse deserves your very best.

I wouldn't want to screw him with my arch-nemesis vagina after that revelation, talk about a lady-boner killer. I'd be utterly contemptuous of him and be unable to respect him enough to want to have sex, and I like sex a lot. 

How badly do you want things to work and why?

Btw, I am just a bit older than you, 42 and I truly regret the time, my youth and love wasted on a man who was clearly unworthy of me. This is a crossroads for you to reexamine how you want your life going forward to be and what you think you're worth.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm still gobsmacked that great women like this keep winding up with Dudley Do Wrong.

There are men who would face lions with spears for women that desired them and so many end up with limp biscuit "men"!

Mrs. C isn't a model and has never thought she was but she has also never once doubted my desire for her. I molest her every day, several times a day and flirt with her nonstop.

Every time a testosterone commercial has come on she gets a hard look and tells me "Don't even think about it!" She loves my desire for her but she already has to run from me to avoid getting broken. LoL!

I don't care if I'm in a wheelchair, she is getting chased!😁


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> I don't understand your husband at all because he totally damaged his relationship to whack off to others having sex instead of playing with his very willing woman.
> 
> I also feel for your situation and I have very defined limits and wouldn't have put up with what you have.
> 
> ...


Thank you! You're right. Even my husband says that he's an idiot. Honestly, I don't think I'd have any trouble finding another man. Now that I'm thinner again I do get more attention from men. But I don't want another man. My husband is the only man I've ever even kissed! I love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him. Plus we have young children whose world would be crushed if we split up. The only way I would leave him is if he ever cheated on me or if he went a year neglecting me again. I would never cheat, but I do see how neglected spouses can wind up in that situation. I desperately want to feel desired.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> Thank you! You're right. Even my husband says that he's an idiot. Honestly, I don't think I'd have any trouble finding another man. Now that I'm thinner again I do get more attention from men. But I don't want another man. My husband is the only man I've ever even kissed! I love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him. Plus we have young children whose world would be crushed if we split up. The only way I would leave him is if he ever cheated on me or if he went a year neglecting me again. I would never cheat, but I do see how neglected spouses can wind up in that situation. I desperately want to feel desired.


I get it but it might do your husband some good to see you out with a good looking man who was obviously interested in you.

I know that's probably unrealistic but it might slap him awake.

He is asleep at the wheel of your marriage.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> I get it but it might do your husband some good to see you out with a good looking man who was obviously interested in you.
> 
> I know that's probably unrealistic but it might slap him awake.
> 
> He is asleep at the wheel of your marriage.


He is asleep at the wheel, agree on that.

The rest of the hypothetical: bad idea and slippery slope.
Along the lines of RAs being bad ideas.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> Melinda, woman here. Been there, done that. I was sexless for over a decade b/c my exH preferred porn, I was too much work because I didn't get turned on immediately when he was ready to go. He claimed he had ED and I believed him, b/c I saw him and was naked around him all the time and nada. Turns out he just wasn't attracted to me, although he sure liked the benefits of being married to me.
> 
> That comment he made about you being a 5-7 was extremely hurtful and uncalled for. What was he thinking?! In hindsight, I have to say that insults aren't good, and his intent might be to break you down if he's feeling inadequate in some way. What does HE look like? Is he hot? Is he good in the sack?
> 
> ...


I was crushed by the "5, 6 or 7" comment. But he didn't mean to be mean. He said he thinks he's only average in attractiveness as well and I'm at the same level. Before this conversation, when I would ask him how attractive he found me, he would change the topic with, "Do you think I'm that attractive?" Really, he's said something along those lines for years. He always said he didn't know why I found him attractive. I always believed he had low self-confidence in his attractiveness, but thought he'd "caught" a woman more attractive than him. I never knew he viewed me just as low as him. BTW, I find him very attractive, a 7 or 8, even though he puts NO effort into grooming/style other than taking a shower daily.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> Thank you! You're right. Even my husband says that he's an idiot. Honestly, I don't think I'd have any trouble finding another man. Now that I'm thinner again I do get more attention from men. *But I don't want another man. My husband is the only man I've ever even kissed! I love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him. Plus we have young children whose world would be crushed if we split up. The only way I would leave him is if he ever cheated on me or if he went a year neglecting me again. I would never cheat, but I do see how neglected spouses can wind up in that situation. I desperately want to feel desired.*


And this is why he felt secure enough to be a sh1tty husband.

My exH had the gall to tell our MC he knew I'd never cheat or leave him, I was not that kind of person, b/c we'd been through so much together.

I really hope he will fix himself and change enough to meet you halfway, but maybe you should examine why you're so loyal to someone who isn't as loyal to you? I get it that you want things to work b/c of young children. But seriously nip this sh1t in the bud NOW before it becomes a bigger problem, don't let him tell you it's not a big deal compared to other folks' problems.

I also got a lot of attention from other men, even at my heaviest. He's always insisted on going everywhere with me and appearing with a face like a storm cloud when men chatted me up in the grocery.

My advice...
If you don't already, start doing things for yourself and go out. I don't mean to date other men, but its time for him to not be so sure of you anymore. Join a club, go out with friends, and make sure you doll up like he likes when you do.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> That's what I started to question. Why did he date me or marry me if he wasn't highly attracted to me? I felt so confident in his attraction early in our relationship. But he could have just settled for me because I was the first girl to show any interest in him, his first girlfriend. Maybe he didn't think he'd find any better. Or maybe he liked my personality enough to make up for the only moderate attraction. Or maybe staring at pictures/videos of other women for decades has warped his attraction.
> 
> BTW: I feel like I'm talking to a movie star. I've been reading your posts as well as the other regular posters for months now, trying to guess at what all of you would say if I were to post. It's a little surreal. I can't believe I finally did it!


I'm far from a movie star. I find TAM to be helpful and I don't mind sharing my opinions once I got used to it. I didn't talk much either when I first joined.

I don't know how much of my posts you've wrote, but I don't fight against porn here like many others, but I don't like it when people get addicted to it and stop living in reality. I have a very high sex drive and my wife doesn't match mine. If it were left up to me, I'd have my wife twice a day and be happier than a pig in shyt. 

I don't think your questions of his attraction 20 years ago are unfounded. Those same questions would swirl in my mind too. My wife fits the EXACT body type that catches my attention. She still does...... hence one of the main reasons why I liked her. 

However, I'm still a man. I find other women attractive too (like most men do). Hypothetically speaking, I could have ended up with a woman that did not have my preferences, but there are plenty of other things women do that make them attractive and sexy. I would also have the understanding that if I'm choosing a woman that doesn't fit my exact preferences, then that is what I'm doing. I would know that I am marrying someone for reasons outside of my physical preferences and I should have a good reason for it (like a ton of other qualities I adore). What your husband has done is terrible. I would never say such things to my wife. There is no reason to be mean like that. You are supposed to be the one he cherishes and loves. 

Trust me, most men are going to be closer to me. If you decide to split, you won't have a problem finding someone that would be at your level physically. It just may take some time to find a quality man that has all the attributes you are looking for. There are plenty that do exist.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Melinda82 said:


> I was crushed by the "5, 6 or 7" comment. But he didn't mean to be mean. He said he thinks he's only average in attractiveness as well and I'm at the same level. Before this conversation, when I would ask him how attractive he found me, he would change the topic with, "Do you think I'm that attractive?" Really, he's said something along those lines for years. He always said he didn't know why I found him attractive. I always believed he had low self-confidence in his attractiveness, but thought he'd "caught" a woman more attractive than him. I never knew he viewed me just as low as him. BTW, I find him very attractive, a 7 or 8, even though he puts NO effort into grooming/style other than taking a shower daily.


If he doesn't say hey baby, you're just hot anytime, something is amiss. Too much porn.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> This is not true for YOU. It is for many of us who have been used and discarded for younger women. TexasMom is quite accurate in her assessment, there are a lot of men who think that way, even on TAM. Lots of meds advise others in the breakdown of their relationships to get a younger/hotter woman.
> 
> 
> I thought so so, b/c he was great in other ways. I also bought the "all men do it" crap.
> ...


He doesn't have any friends other than co-workers he occasionally texts. He comes home after work to me and the kids. But he tells me all of his co-workers use porn and look at and comment on women who walk by. He was sending pictures of women back and forth with a male former co-worker till I found out.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Melinda82 said:


> I did give him an ultimatum. Me or the porn. He said he chooses me. He swears he hasn't used it since then. He has told me the things I said about how his porn use made me feel have really stuck with him and made him not want to do it anymore. But I don't trust him. And even if he has stopped, all of those images are still there in his mind. And I'm afraid that such long-term use has affected his ability to get really aroused without it. He seems to be most attracted to me when I'm dressed provocatively with lots of make-up and wearing a push-up bra!


Yes, when you look like a porn star sadly:-( 
Honesty I could never disrespect my husband in that way by watching porn. I will never understand how any married person thinks it's ok. 
I am so sorry. I hate porn and this is why. 
Only you can know if you will be able to trust again or if you are able to get over all this.
I would understand totally if you couldn't stay, after all this has been happening for so long. He even married you under false pretenses, not telling you about the porn use.

What annoys me is that some men will only stop if they think their wife will actually leave. What a shame then didn't stop before they caused her such deep hurt.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> And this is why he felt secure enough to be a sh1tty husband.
> 
> My exH had the gall to tell our MC he knew I'd never cheat or leave him, I was not that kind of person, b/c we'd been through so much together.
> 
> ...


Can a man say hey, can you doll up for me? Now, I tell DW similar, but I'm not a PC kind of guy, but I can just hear some women say, hey, that's sexist. Just a response based on this day and age.😮


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> I was crushed by the "5, 6 or 7" comment. But he didn't mean to be mean. He said he thinks he's only average in attractiveness as well and I'm at the same level. Before this conversation, when I would ask him how attractive he found me, he would change the topic with, "Do you think I'm that attractive?" Really, he's said something along those lines for years.* He always said he didn't know why I found him attractive.* I always believed he had low self-confidence in his attractiveness, but thought he'd "caught" a woman more attractive than him. I never knew he viewed me just as low as him. BTW, I find him very attractive, a 7 or 8, even though he puts NO effort into grooming/style other than taking a shower daily.


^^^ Stands out to me. Is he insecure? Does he like people to kiss his a$$ a lot, i.e. need external validation and yours isn't good enough?

I don't understand the whole rating system for someone you choose to be with. I get that people are more/less attractive in relation to others, but what does it say about you that you rate your spouse against other people? Why compare? That kind of thing bleeds over into other aspects of life, eventually produces a general dissatisfaction with any/everything.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> He is asleep at the wheel, agree on that.
> 
> The rest of the hypothetical: bad idea and slippery slope.
> Along the lines of RAs being bad ideas.


Hehe! I did mention it being unrealistic but maybe an auction date?😉


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Melinda82 said:


> He doesn't have any friends other than co-workers he occasionally texts. He comes home after work to me and the kids. But he tells me all of his co-workers use porn and look at and comment on women who walk by. He was sending pictures of women back and forth with a male former co-worker till I found out.


Who talks about porn at work? Wow.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

S


Melinda82 said:


> He doesn't have any friends other than co-workers he occasionally texts. He comes home after work to me and the kids. But he tells me all of his co-workers use porn and look at and comment on women who walk by. He was sending pictures of women back and forth with a male former co-worker till I found out.


So what if all his co workers look at porn, why does that mean he has to do the same?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Who talks about porn at work? Wow.


Pornstars???


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> Your husband was (is?) using other women to get sexual satisfaction. If that's not cheating, I don't know what is. You just found out that your husband has been cheating on you for years, while you have been frantically trying to get his attention. What an ass. Stop trying to please your husband and get his attention. You are rewarding him for cheating on you.
> It is perfectly normal that you have lost love and interest in your husband. I wouldn't blame you if you divorced him.


I can't decide how I view what he did. I don't feel like it's quite the same as cheating. If I did, I would be gone already. But I do think it's at least halfway there. He was even hiding his phone and acting suspicious. That's how I found out. He hadn't deleted his browser history. I don't think he knew how, or he didn't think I would check it. Now he knows how to delete it, so I don't know how I could find out if he's truly changed.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If someone is spanking to porn and neglecting or outright rejecting their partner., I do not see that as any real difference to being in an affair with another person.... the end result to the partner is the same.

What would you do if you found out he was getting down with another woman?
My suggestion is do that. 

I will also add that I think the true root cause of porn and the actual harm of porn is not wanting to look at firm, young bodies or that guys are no longer attracted to their middle age wives after seeing firm young bods. I think that is largely myth and fallacy.

I think the true root cause and true outcome is sloth and laziness. 

Stay with me here a moment and hear me out.

The root cause is laziness and ratio of reward vs effort. 

Porn doesn’t ask anything of men but their time and attention. You don’t have to take it to dinner or out dancing. You don’t have to marry it or give it children. You don’t have to support it or change it’s tires in the rain. You don’t have to rub it’s feet or back. It never asks you for a new bedroom set or living room furniture. It never takes a dump and asks you to unclog the toilet. It never calls you away from an important football game to kill a spider in the bedroom. You never have to visit it’s parents or siblings. You don’t even have to be nice to it or talk to it.

It is there 24/7 right in your back pocket and at any time of the day or night, it will give you a visual thrill and a hit of horny hormones and you may even be able to squeeze a quick orgasm out of the deal and it won’t even ask you to cuddle or tell it how good it was. 

No effort. No cost. All reward with nothing asked in return. 

It’s not that he doesn’t find you attractive or sexy and it’s not that he’s comparing you to 19 year olds. It’s not that he doesn’t love you and doesn’t want to be with you. 

It’s he’s gotten lazy. He’s lost the eye of the tiger and thrill of the chase (go ahead and hum the song) 

Way down deep in his primitive brain and hormonal chemistry, he has already bred an endless harem of women with no effort and no cost and no consequence, and that harem is right there in his back pocket ready to go again, so why should he take you to dinner and gaze into your eyes while telling you how much he loves you and light candles and warm up massage oil to rub your feet, when he can take his phone into the bathroom and come out 5 minutes later with an empty tank. 

It’s about laziness and it’s turned him to sloth. 

Cont....


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> He doesn't have any friends other than co-workers he occasionally texts. He comes home after work to me and the kids. But he tells me all of his co-workers use porn and look at and comment on women who walk by. He was sending pictures of women back and forth with a male former co-worker till I found out.


Ugh! He sounds really immature for 40, how old are his coworkers? Is he trying to keep up with a younger crowd?


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Can a man say hey, can you doll up for me? Now, I tell DW similar, but I'm not a PC kind of guy, but I can just hear some women say, hey, that's sexist. Just a response based on this day and age.😮


Sure. But he's better bring the heavy D. Otherwise, not worth the effort.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Melinda82 said:


> He knows our marriage depends on him changing. He's really trying to be more affectionate and initiate sex more. If he'd acted this way years ago, I would've been thrilled. But now, knowing of his preference for porn over me, knowing of his only moderate attraction to me, I just feel like he's going through the motions, doing what I want him to do, not doing it because he wants to. I feel completely undesired.


He is doing it because he knows that you could end the marriage.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> If someone is spanking to porn and neglecting or outright rejecting their partner., I do not see that as any real difference to being in an affair with another person.... the end result to the partner is the same.
> 
> What would you do if you found out he was getting down with another woman?
> My suggestion is do that.
> ...


We don't see eye to eye on many things, but I endorse this. He likes McDonald's sex, cheap and convinent.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Yes, his porn use has him ogling and masturbating to women with big fake boobs doing things no one but a paid porn or enslaved porn actress would do so now your sex life is taking a backseat. This is way more easier for him I guess. If he's looking at porn regularly, I would not say he's low drive. How do you know he might not be using local sex workers as well or spending money on sex cams?

I'm not sure you can unring the bell. Through watching it his expectations have been raised outside what is probable in real life. So you can certainly ask that he quit watching it and maybe he will eventually develop his attraction for you again, but that's no guarantee and it's almost impossible to get someone to quit using it since you can do it anywhere you have a cell phone.

Sorry he's decided his porn addiction is more important than your marriage.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> I can't decide how I view what he did. I don't feel like it's quite the same as cheating. If I did, I would be gone already. But I do think it's at least halfway there. He was even hiding his phone and acting suspicious. That's how I found out. He hadn't deleted his browser history. I don't think he knew how, or he didn't think I would check it. Now he knows how to delete it, so I don't know how I could find out if he's truly changed.


Make no mistake OP, he is replacing you in his mind with other women. That's sounds a whole lot like infidelity to me.
But each person has their boundaries so whatever you can live with is fine for you.

Also I have a question. Are you sure he didn't escalate this to the next step? If this is life-long, then I'm wondering....
In today's age, you can chat with pornstars, arrange private shows, or even in-person shows.
Are you sure about that?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now, this ‘can’ be turned around. 

His brain chemistry and his instinct to hunt and chase can recover and he can turn into a virile man again if he puts the porn away and transitions back into the real, physical world. 

But like an alcoholic or a druggie, he has to want to do it for himself and he has to put in the effort. 

From your standpoint, I’d look at it as an affair with another woman and treat it as such but the impact to you isn’t really any different. 

If he sees you packing bags and preparing to moving on, he might decide he’d rather work on the real thing rather than spanking to circus midgets in vats of Ramen Noodles.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> I'm still gobsmacked that great women like this keep winding up with Dudley Do Wrong.
> 
> There are men who would face lions with spears for women that desired them and so many end up with limp biscuit "men"!
> 
> ...


Took the words right out of my mouth. I have no idea how men are not jumping their women the moment they get home from work if they have a wife this willing. My wife and I have had our ups and downs, but when she is up…. Oh man. You don’t have to ask me twice. Put a Disney movie on for the kids and let’s get this done.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

@oldshirt 

circus midgets in vats of Ramen Noodles

Now that's hard to unsee 🤣🤣🤣


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> TM!!!!! This is NOT true. Come on. I don’t know where you are getting this from, but most the men I know do not operate this way. I’m not going to say there aren’t garbage men out there. My wife is 42, post child and I desire her just as much now as when I met her when she was 21.


I didn’t mean to imply most men operate this way. I meant if this particular man had decided that’s what he wants, she’s wasting her time trying to change for him because at some point there’s only so much we can do. If that’s who he is, toss him. I believe I even said she’d find a good man sooner than she thought. I don’t think I implied this was all men.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I didn’t mean to imply most men operate this way. I meant if this particular man had decided that’s what he wants, she’s wasting her time trying to change for him because at some point there’s only so much we can do. If that’s who he is, toss him. I believe I even said she’d find a good man sooner than she thought. I don’t think I implied this was all men.


Fair point, TM. That was my bad.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> I can't decide how I view what he did. I don't feel like it's quite the same as cheating. If I did, I would be gone already. But I do think it's at least halfway there. He was even hiding his phone and acting suspicious. That's how I found out. He hadn't deleted his browser history. I don't think he knew how, or he didn't think I would check it. Now he knows how to delete it, so I don't know how I could find out if he's truly changed.


You know what he's like when he's spanking it. LD for you, full of excuses and neglecting you sexually. If nothing improves after a reasonable time, you can assume it's business as usual. Only time will tell, there's no easy answer. Though, hone and trust your gut instinct. I swear, every time I've dismissed mine, it came back to bite me in the a$$.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Melinda82 said:


> Thank you. I think that's my problem. I know he truly loves me. He shows me in so many other ways. He feels really, really bad about all of this. But I just don't think I'll ever see him the same way again.


If you don't want to leave you may well have to accept that you won't ever look at him in the same way again. That you may never trust him again. In the end you have to decide if you want a marriage like that or to end the marriage and maybe someday find a decent guy who focuses on you and not cheap porn stars.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> I thought I had one of those decent men. He's wonderful in a lot of ways. I think the porn is a habit that started in his teenage years and he continued thinking that it didn't affect me if I didn't know. He told me, "All men do it," and "All men look at other women." I don't think he knew it was wrong. This is so shocking to me because over the years he rarely has shown any attraction to other women or even admitted another woman was pretty when asked. I'd felt confident that his love for me made him so attracted to me that he didn't even notice other women. Boy, was I wrong.


Yes, I was in a similar situation. I was so totally wrong in reading him that since the divorce I’m unable to trust my judgment. No more serious relationships for me. I hope your story has a happier ending than mine.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

The irony here is during the porn wars in the 80s when porn was starting to shift from nasty, back-alley theaters in the red light districts of the inner cities to the VHS home movie market, religious and conservative groups were making a concerted effort to get porn banned make it outright illegal.

The argument was porn would turn men into uncontrollable sex maniacs and there would be marauding rape gangs roaming the streets preying upon innocent women and children. 

The actual effect is the opposite and instead of the marauding rape gangs of sex maniacs, we have guys sitting alone in the dark with their pud in the hand watching other people have sex while their own wife/GF goes frustrated and unsatisfied. 

Instead of being hyper stimulated and sex-crazed, guys are fat and lazy and satiated and perfectly happy to sit and watch reruns of Friends with an empty tank and satisfied smile on their face while their wife is looking through her friends list of old lovers on Facebook wondering who might still have an actual hard dck.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Melinda82 said:


> That's what I started to question. Why did he date me or marry me if he wasn't highly attracted to me? I felt so confident in his attraction early in our relationship.


Just going to put this out there, to be complete.

Being highly attracted to someone and wanting to have sex with them are not necessarily tied together. He may find you attractive, and still find the sex uninteresting. If true, that might be his fault, yours, or no one's. 

You say your sex life is amazing. Does he agree? "He always climaxes" with a man is like saying he keeps breathing.

For context, my wife and I have an almost unbridgeable gulf between what she thinks is satisfying sex and what I think is. While I find her attractive, I'm not very enthusiastic about our sex life. Because for me, it's not all that great.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Melinda82 said:


> Thank you. I think that's my problem. I know he truly loves me. He shows me in so many other ways. He feels really, really bad about all of this. But I just don't think I'll ever see him the same way again.


That's because he'll never see you again the same way since he chose to delve into sex on the internet.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's because he'll never see you again the same way since he chose to delve into sex on the internet.


The behavior likely won’t change. It will just go underground. 🥺 The result for the OP will be the same.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> The irony here is during the porn wars in the 80s when porn was starting to shift from nasty, back-alley theaters in the red light districts of the inner cities to the VHS home movie market, religious and conservative groups were making a concerted effort to get porn banned make it outright illegal.
> 
> The argument was porn would turn men into uncontrollable sex maniacs and there would be marauding rape gangs roaming the streets preying upon innocent women and children.
> 
> ...


Agree, except the ones who are trying to coerce their poor wives into doing things they don't want to do. And there's plenty of those.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> The behavior likely won’t change. It will just go underground. 🥺 The result for the OP will be the same.


Likely it won't but I hope for OP's sake he does the hard work because people can change.

Even if he does, it looks like it will take her a while to overcome the damage as well but if her goal is to keep the family intact, they will have to work it out.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Melinda82 said:


> Men: Do you understand my husband's behavior? Can you explain it to me?


Well, I'm only hearing one side of the story, but I feel fairly confident in saying two things, even though I know many will disagree.

1) What has happened is almost certainly not about you. You probably can't fix it by losing weight or wearing lacy things. He's an addict. The roots of addiction go way back. It's not something _you_ can fix. (And the body appearance that men like in porn isn't necessarily what they like in a partner). 

2) To answer the question in the thread title, I'd say the decline in your sex life is not primarily caused by the porn. It's probably more like the other way round. Look for possible other reasons.

If I was working with this (and I do work with couples where one is a porn addict) I'd need to ask him a lot more detailed questions, and addicts don't always answer questions honestly. Try asking an alcoholic how much they drink.

Possible other reasons: he may have a medical problem / something changed in his life, like a job loss or a bereavement of some kind / there may be an unspoken conflict in the relationship / he was abused as a child / all kinds of possibilities. I'd put money on you can't fix this just by "stopping the porn". The porn is a symptom.

Just my opinion.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> Thank you. I think that's my problem. I know he truly loves me. He shows me in so many other ways. He feels really, really bad about all of this. But I just don't think I'll ever see him the same way again.


How much weight do you give his “truly loving you”, and his regret, as you ponder what, if any, action to take?

Protecting someone from consequences of their own inconsiderate and hurtful actions towards you is not an obligation. It’s often not healthy for you, and not healthy for any would-be continuing relationship.

You don’t have to know whether you can ever see him the same way again, do you? It’s not something anyone could predict in your situation. You are free to choose differently for yourself, without knowing you gave him every possible chance, deserved or undeserved, to be worthy of your time and affection. It’s your life. He had his chance. If he blew it, his loss.

(Easier said than done.)


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Melinda82 said:


> I am a 40-year-old woman and have been with my husband since we were teenagers. Our marriage is great in many ways. We enjoy each other's company and work well together taking care of our home and family.
> 
> Until last year, the only issue in our marriage was sex. When we have it, it's amazing. He always climaxes and I usually do as well. The problem is after the initial honeymoon phase, the frequency went down. My husband usually goes between several days to a few weeks between initiating, although he has occasionally gone several weeks or even months. Then he will want sex two or three times in a week before another dry spell. I have always wanted more regular intimacy. I need sex at least once a week to not be miserable (and more often to be happy). Consequently, I have spent quite a lot of the last two decades sexually frustrated. I used to try to initiate, but if he is not already in the mood, he rarely agrees. He's "too tired," his "stomach hurts," or he's "just not thinking about it right now." Even if he does agree, the sex is never as good as it is when he initiates. (However, I never tell him no and enjoy sex just as much if he is the one to put me in the mood.) So I've learned to wait for the mood to strike him. I've put up with it, believing he was just a lower-drive person than me. However, I have had many conversations with him over the years, particularly because when he's not "in the mood," he also doesn't show me much other physical affection (hugging, kissing, touching), leaving me feeling completely neglected, unloved, and undesirable.
> 
> ...


My heart goes out to you and your feelings of being unloved. I am a man and really identify with much of what you have posted.

With the exception of *Laurentium's comments, I would like to change the narrative.*

I would like to suggest you get the book by M.W. Davis the Sex Starved Wife and read it. You will find out that you are not alone. Of course others on TAM have told you they faced similar situations. In the Davis book you will also learn some things that might help change the way your H treats you. It sounds like you have been able to introduce temporary and positive changes, so your situation doesn't sound hopeless. 

If you are a fan of BF Skinner and the whole conditioned response thing, you just need how to complete the conditioning so that you can reinforce your husbands positive changes. Davis will give you some ideas.

Porn is a hot button topic on TAM. Yes, some porn can interfere with a marriage, but in my personal opinion it gets far too much blame. 

I would like to suggest a few things you might explore with your H.

First, have him get a really good medical check up. Men in their 40's are at an age where all kinds of things can start going wrong. If he is overweight, there is something called Metabolic Syndrome. It is usually associated with lots of abdominal fat. The fat can actually convert testosterone into estrogen and destroy libido. Often is is associated with type 2 diabetes and with poor blood flow in the penis and create sexual performance anxiety. He should get checked out because his lack of libido could be a real serious medical problem.

Second, have you thought of getting some Boudoir professional photos done of yourself, now that you have lost weight and feel sexier? Looking at them might really change his mental image of you. Professional photographers can make you look almost as good as any hot model he has ever seen or at least your absolute best. You may feel an unfair comparison to some 20 something porn star, but professional photographer can pose you, provide the right lighting, and photoshop the image so you can compete.

Third, have you worked with your H on affirmations or visualization. Again, going back to BF Skinner, your conscious minds can try to change your subconscious mind through self-hypnosis or affirmations. Saying verbally that I forgive someone, I love them, they are beautiful, I sexually desire them, repeatedly while visualizing them is a way of changing attitudes. The method is used all the time for weight loss, stop smoking, etc.

Fourth, I would echo that seeking the help of a Board Certified Sex Therapist (they are marriage counselors with extra training in people with sexual problems) is the way to go. It will be expensive, but it will be cheaper than two divorce attorneys. A sex therapist helped cure my sex starved marriage with my wife. 

Finally, one of the things you are probably going to have to face, is that your sex drive is greater than that of your H and it will always be that way. That doesn't mean that the two of you can't compromise on frequency of sex and come up with something you can both live with (more than he wants and less than you want). It also doesn't mean that you can't learn to include some sensual things in your life that he doesn't consider sex, but that make you feel loved cherished and provide you with the intimacy you need.

I want to wish you good luck. On of the hard lessons I learned in healing my sex starved marraige was that my W was angry with me and that I (in her mind) had been part of the problem. My view was that I was the victim of a frigid woman who told me she never wanted to have sex with me. Once I apologized and she forgave me, we started to make real progress and the ST was key to making all that happen.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> My heart goes out to you and your feelings of being unloved. I am a man and really identify with much of what you have posted.
> 
> With the exception of *Laurentium's comments, I would like to change the narrative.*
> 
> ...


I knew it was a matter of time before someone came on here and told the OP that her husband’s preference for porn was her fault. Now she needs to get porn made of herself, faked up of course, for him to use to ignore her. What a horrible, hurtful thing to say.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

I am very sorry this has happened to you.

3 stage approach assuming you have the funds, time, and patience.

#1 get him in a program for sex/porn addicts. He's demonstrated this is a habit he does not have control over and he's highly unlikely to gain control over it. Some people can responsibly have one drink and be fine. Others can't stop and end up in AA. It does happen.

#2 Certified marriage counselor. Focus on communication and support.

#3 Certified sex therapist. Verify what he's into. Verify what you're into. You've already expressed sexual frustration in your posts. Some of his behavior also hints at sexual frustration. If the program and the marriage counselor don't solve the bedroom part then this would be the final step. No one outside of the two of you need to know about any of these steps. It's incredibly private, just know that there are plenty of couples out there who have had to go through this.


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## Northern.Guy (10 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> After the initial anger and disgust lessened (although it didn't go away), I tried everything in my power to bring my husband's sexual focus back on to me. Several times, I've offered to fulfill (almost) any desire he's gotten from watching porn. But he doesn't seem to have any. I also tried harder to be more attractive. I'd already lost weight and gotten back to my pre-marital, healthy BMI weight. But my thinner body hadn't improved his desire for me. So I bought snugger, sexier clothes and lacy bras and panties, and even took pictures of myself in them (something I'd never done before), so he would have something acceptable to look at if he wanted to get aroused and/or masturbate when I'm not around.
> 
> Although I felt much sexier from these changes, his desire only improved slightly. Occasionally something I've worn or one of the photos has really turned him on, but other times he didn't notice, or showed only mild appreciation. During our marital discussions over the past several months, I pointed this out. Several times I told him I didn't feel like he was that attracted to me. He either stayed silent and sad-looking, or put up a half-hearted denial. One day recently, I said I feel a husband should think his wife is one of the sexiest women he's ever seen, an 8 or a 9 (on a scale of 1 to 10), and feel lucky to have her in his bed. He should be highly attracted to her. He finally admitted that he didn't feel that way about me. He said he thinks of me as a 6 or a 7. He immediately changed it to "a *5*, 6, or 7." I was shocked and heartbroken that my husband sees me as so average, especially after all of the effort I'd put into being the sexiest woman I could possibly be. I asked if there was anything I could change to make myself more desirable to him (weight, hair, clothes, make-up, etc.). But he said he didn't know of anything that was his preferred "type." Based on the titles of the porn he's into and the couple of photos I saw, I think his type is very large breasts. He says he likes mine (B-cup), but I think that's just because that's all that's available to him. When I was overweight and/or nursing, I know he showed more interest in their increased size (C-cup).


This is heartbreaking. You have put so much effort and your husband doesn't realize what he has. I have distant experience with porn, and I know how harmful it is to a marriage. It has taken a decade to unravel the issues. It's easier to bury the problem, and it that's what we did. But the past few years we have been doing the work. It takes time and lots of communication about hard to talk about issues. It's more than a decade behind us and now there is one woman on earth that makes me sick with love and excitement. She might not be a 10 to other men, but to me there is no one hotter! A solid 10! I understand what caused your husband to get where he is (porn). The road to recovery takes time. Looking back, it grieves me that I ever grieved my wife by what I did. Men really don't understand the harm they are doing. They are robbing themselves as well as their spouse from everything marriage was intended to be. It is so beautiful to love and cherish your one and only wife. Men, there are things more important than physical sex. Sexual intimacy in marriage is much more than a physical act.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> The problem is after the initial honeymoon phase, the frequency went down. My husband usually goes between several days to a few weeks between initiating, although he has occasionally gone several weeks or even months. Then he will want sex two or three times in a week before another dry spell. I have always wanted more regular intimacy. I need sex at least once a week to not be miserable (and more often to be happy). Consequently, I have spent quite a lot of the last two decades sexually frustrated.


This guy has never been a ball of fire in the bedroom. He devalues the OP's attractiveness because he doesn't see himself as attractive. Him seeing other men appreciate her charms might get him to sit up and take notice; but, it won't make him start to salivate over her. 

OP, I'm sorry to say that you got a dud. He gets more out of solo sex than sex with you. If you want to settle for occasional sex with a lukewarm partner, then stick with your husband. Me? I would make him crawl over a football field sized bed of hot coals before I would let his condescending, selfish ass within ten feet of me. Just think of all the great sex you could have had if he hadn't wasted your youth.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Can you imagine what life would be like if you were with someone who brought the same level of interest and desire to the relationship as you do, or what you would bring if there was a cycle of reciprocation?

Can you imagine such is possible, and that many achieve it? Do you feel such is possible — for you — with the right person, which may or may not be the one you are with?

Do you feel you deserve better?

I think some of us suffer for lack of imagination, after awhile, if we ever really had it to begin with. If one never feels something better is possible for oneself, if one never feels better is deserved, then how can one ever achieve it? Maybe something to work on, internally, if any of that applies.

Speaking for myself.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

OP you have gone way above and beyond the call of duty.

I agree that a husband should think his wife is hot and want to bang her 24/7 pretty much, and the dream is to have a wife who is excited about that and wants to make it happen.

My wife maintains in a range around the time I met her. As such I think she is hot and I want to have sex with her all the time. Like even right now would work for me; unfortunately she’s working.

As for the porn use I don’t know. As an experiment I quit looking at it 20 days ago. I have quit before for even longer periods of time (months). I don’t think it changes my desire for my wife one iota whether I look at porn or not; however my wife is the body type I like that I picked on purpose when I met her and more or less she still kind of looks like that because surprise shock, she’s the same person!


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

OP I’m sorry you are here. I certainly feel the porn and perhaps an affair is effecting your marriage. How sure are you he isn’t having an affair. A year without sex is unusual even for low drive.

2nd how often do you initiate?

3rd a marriage counselor or sex counselor may help him realize this is not a good martial situation but how could you ever get past the past? I’m not sure I could.

watching porn actually changes your brain. So it’s possible you could see improvements over time if he gave it up. But chances are he’d just watch it at work or in the bathroom. Do you want to try to be the porn police?

4th no good husband would treat you this way as if you don’t matter. I’m a strong proponent that spouses don’t have to have sex every time the HD spouse wants it but sex is an important part of a marriage and he isn’t participating in that part. He’s also deceived you and spent what little sexual energy he has ejaculating to porn. There are many men that can’t go again for 4-8 hours after ejaculation. Now you’ll have a chorus of men here from TAM that talk about doing it like 3 times an hour but many men have a longer refractory time than that especially as they get older.

is he on any kind of antidepressants?


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Melinda82 said:


> That's what I started to question. Why did he date me or marry me if he wasn't highly attracted to me? I felt so confident in his attraction early in our relationship. *But he could have just settled for me because I was the first girl to show any interest in him, his first girlfriend. Maybe he didn't think he'd find any better. Or maybe he liked my personality enough to make up for the only moderate attraction. Or maybe staring at pictures/videos of other women for decades has warped his attraction.*
> 
> BTW: I feel like I'm talking to a movie star. I've been reading your posts as well as the other regular posters for months now, trying to guess at what all of you would say if I were to post. It's a little surreal. I can't believe I finally did it!



I am sorry for your situation and didn't read the whole thread, admittedly....but the part I bolded stuck out...

Yes, this could actually be a key to your situation....I hope you dont take it the wrong way, but this has been an issue that I have recognized....Some people are "lazy" daters and perhaps don't really put enough effort into deciding what it is that they actually want in a partner...It's easy to pick from someone that shows interest in a guy, for most guys they have to do the legwork and women often won't put themselves out there, waiting for guys to make a move..So maybe he is one of those types, then realized that he took what was being handed to him, rather than actually putting the effort into what he really wants? I dunno...just a thought..

That doesn't give him the right to mistreat you, I think you just have to try to get to the bottom of it....Its very hard because a lot of guys don't really want to be what can best be described as "brutally honest" in this area...Its crushing and devastating to people, especially women who aren't used to that type of honesty...

Some people believe that men just arbitrarily replace women that they desire with pornography, to a point where fantasy trumps reality...It may be true for some men, but I believe a lot of it is just default behavior..In other words, the problem was there already, but rather than make himself nuts he gets off to porn and lives another day...ts just another form of rug sweeping...and a coping mechanism rather than deal with the root problem...

I dunno...I guess I don't agree with a lot of posters on here, that think you can work with someone, threaten someone, talk to someone in therapy, to have enjoyable sex with them....Its all well intentioned, but this is a topic that should not be like a chore or duty....once it does, its lost all of it's meaning and is pretty much worthless as far as I am concerned..

I wish you well..


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> You are right not to trust him. He will repeat the bad behavior as soon as you 'settle down'.
> 
> Your post breaks my heart for you. I can tell you 100% that the things you did to try to fix this are above and beyond perfect. I wouldn't have any suggestion for anything else.
> 
> ...


I agree TAM people are great, but it was still terrifying. I've been reading a ton on here for months. It's very surreal finally talking to all of you. I've listened to all of your advice to others and tried to apply it to my life, but I wanted to know what exactly you all would say in my particular situation. I've read a lot of other threads from wives of porn-addicted husbands. I'm hoping mine has quit the behavior and I believe he might have. But like you, I think he will likely repeat it as soon as he thinks I've "calmed down." I don't feel that watching porn is quite as severe of a betrayal as cheating. I think it's more like lusting after other women. Still sinful, unfaithful behavior. When combined with not keeping me satisfied, it's even worse. But I love him and am willing to forgive him, if he has truly stopped. But how can he change his only average-level attraction to me? That's what has gotten me so depressed.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> Sounds like too little too late.
> 
> I really don't understand why some people can't see how unloving their actions are to the person they claim to love and honor. After being removed from that situation, all I can say is, their morals and values are incompatible with those who treat others the way they want to be treated. You'd think of ALL people, your spouse deserves your very best.
> 
> ...


Believe me, I have been giving where I am in life and what I want a lot of thought. I've given my entire youth to this man and no other. If I get even a whiff of infidelity (an online EA, CAM girls, etc.) or if he reverts back to choosing porn over me, I'll probably be gone. He's also going to have to find a way to prove to me that he does truly desire me. He's lucky I don't have any good-looking male co-workers, neighbors, etc., because a few pretty words would probably have me ready to leave him. But besides spending so many years together, we have young children who would be hurt by us splitting up. Of course they aren't getting by entirely unscathed now. I've noticed I'm snapping at them more often. It's hard to be patient when you're stressed.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> I'm still gobsmacked that great women like this keep winding up with Dudley Do Wrong.
> 
> There are men who would face lions with spears for women that desired them and so many end up with limp biscuit "men"!
> 
> ...


I wish you could teach my husband a course in how to treat his lady.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> I get it but it might do your husband some good to see you out with a good looking man who was obviously interested in you.
> 
> I know that's probably unrealistic but it might slap him awake.
> 
> He is asleep at the wheel of your marriage.


I actually suggested this! I told him I don't think he realizes how attractive I am. I jokingly said we should go to a club or somewhere and he should watch from afar while I get hit on by every single man there! He didn't like the idea.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> I agree TAM people are great, but it was still terrifying. I've been reading a ton on here for months. It's very surreal finally talking to all of you. I've listened to all of your advice to others and tried to apply it to my life, but I wanted to know what exactly you all would say in my particular situation. I've read a lot of other threads from wives of porn-addicted husbands. I'm hoping mine has quit the behavior and I believe he might have. But like you, I think he will likely repeat it as soon as he thinks I've "calmed down." I don't feel that watching porn is quite as severe of a betrayal as cheating. I think it's more like lusting after other women. Still sinful, unfaithful behavior. When combined with not keeping me satisfied, it's even worse. But I love him and am willing to forgive him, if he has truly stopped. But how can he change his only average-level attraction to me? That's what has gotten me so depressed.


Have you asked yourself the question if you want to stay with someone that only thinks you are of average attractiveness?

you should be desired. Your husband should be looking forward to the next time he can have you to himself.

you’ve gone out of your way to keep yourself looking great. That is more than any spouse (man or woman) could ask for. I think you’ve mentioned earlier in this thread that you’ve worn sexy clothes to get his attention.

I personally don’t think you should have to ask him what to do in order to get him to desire you. He chose to be with you. I’ve never heard of a man choose a wife that he didn’t desire to sleep with. It makes no sense to me.

it Seems like you really want to stay with him. Maybe ask him what he needs….. but I really don’t like suggesting that because none of this is your fault and you’ve already put in such a great effort. He’s gotta do something here. He has to put effort back into you.

so do you want to be with someone where you are the one always putting in the effort while he sits there and does nothing - worse yet, you have to worry about him using porn?


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> I wish you could teach my husband a course in how to treat his lady.


😂😂😂😂😂
Sorry for the laughter, but sometimes you gotta laugh or you’ll go crazy. 

M82….. trust me when I say what you are doing is every husbands dream. if you weren’t pushing so hard to save your marriage, there are plenty of quality men out there that would be more than happy to treat you like a lady.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> And this is why he felt secure enough to be a sh1tty husband.
> 
> My exH had the gall to tell our MC he knew I'd never cheat or leave him, I was not that kind of person, b/c we'd been through so much together.
> 
> ...


I really like your idea! I've actually kind-of done that recently. I dressed a little sexy with make-up and left him with the kids while I went shopping a couple times. I do think him not being so sure of me is a good idea. Maybe he'll work harder to keep what he's got. But like your exH, he knows I won't cheat.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> Believe me, I have been giving where I am in life and what I want a lot of thought. I've given my entire youth to this man and no other. If I get even a whiff of infidelity (an online EA, CAM girls, etc.) or if he reverts back to choosing porn over me, I'll probably be gone. He's also going to have to find a way to prove to me that he does truly desire me. He's lucky I don't have any good-looking male co-workers, neighbors, etc., because a few pretty words would probably have me ready to leave him. But besides spending so many years together, we have young children who would be hurt by us splitting up. Of course they aren't getting by entirely unscathed now. I've noticed I'm snapping at them more often. It's hard to be patient when you're stressed.


Trust me when I say, I feel you here. It is hard. Really hard. I have my own issues to contend with in my marriage and it affects my ability to be the best father I can to my children and it guts me when I lose my patience with them even though it isn’t their fault.

I do believe that has to factor into your decision. If you can’t be the best mother possible to your children because your husband treats you so poorly, then you really have to rethink your marriage to him.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I'm far from a movie star. I find TAM to be helpful and I don't mind sharing my opinions once I got used to it. I didn't talk much either when I first joined.
> 
> I don't know how much of my posts you've wrote, but I don't fight against porn here like many others, but I don't like it when people get addicted to it and stop living in reality. I have a very high sex drive and my wife doesn't match mine. If it were left up to me, I'd have my wife twice a day and be happier than a pig in shyt.
> 
> ...


I've read a lot of your posts and the way you feel about your wife is how I wish my husband felt about me. Also how you've expressed a need for more from your wife is how I feel about my husband. I also would be thrilled to have sex daily or possibly even twice a day. You're probably right that I could find someone else to match my drive, but I don't know if I could find someone else who has all of the other qualities that I love in my husband. Believe it or not, nothing he's said to me was with intent to be mean. I've been questioning him for months since I found out about his porn use and he has answered my questions as gently as possible.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I think some people do get complacent with time. They take their spouse — and their spouse’s attractiveness — for granted. You’ll survive just fine without him should you decide to make that choice.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Trust me when I say, I feel you here. It is hard. Really hard. I have my own issues to contend with in my marriage and it affects my ability to be the best father I can to my children and it guts me when I lose my patience with them even though it isn’t their fault.
> 
> I do believe that has to factor into your decision. If you can’t be the best mother possible to your children because your husband treats you so poorly, then you really have to rethink your marriage to him.


If I were alone, though, going through a divorce, I wouldn't be less stressed. I'd be more stressed. So that wouldn't make me a better mother. But yes, if I find myself completely losing it with my kids on a regular basis, something will have to change.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> If I were alone, though, going through a divorce, I wouldn't be less stressed. I'd be more stressed. So that wouldn't make me a better mother. But yes, if I find myself completely losing it with my kids on a regular basis, something will have to change.


Divorce is hell even in the best cases. It destroys families, confuses and hurts kids, and darkens hearts of those affected for months, years.

Sometimes, this is better than the journey you are on. Only you can know that.

The reward comes at the end when healing occurs and your life gets back on track. Sometimes, oftentimes, better and happier than before.

You cannot change his heart for you. But he can change it with the right counsel, desire, and motivation.

I think of this as an ‘affair fog’. His mistress is porn. The only chance of reconciliation with you is to completely remove, no contact, with his mistress. If he truly has a remorseful heart, then it can change toward you as before.

No contact with his mistress would be exceptionally difficult because he carrys her around in his pocket. But it could be done if he wants it bad enough.

I think filing for divorce, coupled with a demand for porn addiction counseling could have a chance to save your marriage. Other paths rely on proven failed actions o his part, and you should expect these will fail as well.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Have you asked yourself the question if you want to stay with someone that only thinks you are of average attractiveness?
> 
> you should be desired. Your husband should be looking forward to the next time he can have you to himself.


@Melinda82 This is very important IMO. The porn use is bad, but when he outright says you are only average at best, something isn't right. I'm not saying he should be dishonest and lie to you, but a husband should see his wife as very attractive. It should almost be on an instinctive level. When I tell my wife she is the most beautiful woman I know, I am being dead serious. I fully recognize that not everyone will agree, their wife is the most beautiful, lol or they should be to them.

I'm really surprised he said that. Some others have touched on it, but it seems logical that it comes from his own insecurity. If he sees himself as a 5 or 6 he may feel intimidated or at risk of losing you if you are too far above him. That's a lot of guessing though, hard to tell what is really going through his mind.

Porn use could be twisting a lot of things in his mind. I speak from experience that stopping porn use can be hard and it can have real physical effects on a person. You may have to be willing to accept some slipups from him if you really want to stay with him.

But back to @LATERILUS79 's question. Do you really want to be with someone that thinks you are only average attractiveness? Assuming that really is how he feels.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> No matter what we do, once we pass 35 or have had a child, we can’t compete with a coked-up, nipped and tucked, 22 year old porn star.
> 
> When a man decides that’s all he wants, there’s not much you can do. It’s hurtful and cruel and deeply unfair, because there’s no situation where that is done to men and they don’t care how we feel about it.
> 
> Some things are worse than being alone.Being someone’s live-in maid and cook is hardly a rewarding and happy life. You may be better off without him. There do exist decent men in the world, I bet you find one sooner than you think.


This is the default “truth” that every woman on the planet claims to be written in stone. Of course there are a few garage guys out there but most guys I know want there woman at home. I work in an industry with prevalence of porn weaved in its culture…. It’s everywhere. None of the 100’s of guys I know spend any time talking about “hot body” pornstars but they do talk about getting home to their wife and can’t wait after being at work for 5 weeks. I use porn but have never in my life thought of any of that trash when I’m with my wife.

Porn isn’t a good thing exactly but you need to realize your husband is the garbage. He has said and done some pretty hurtful things.

You sound like great wife material. You probably have a lot more options than you think.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> I've read a lot of your posts and the way you feel about your wife is how I wish my husband felt about me. Also how you've expressed a need for more from your wife is how I feel about my husband. I also would be thrilled to have sex daily or possibly even twice a day. You're probably right that I could find someone else to match my drive, but I don't know if I could find someone else who has all of the other qualities that I love in my husband. Believe it or not, nothing he's said to me was with intent to be mean. I've been questioning him for months since I found out about his porn use and he has answered my questions as gently as possible.


Ok. You've said that you know your husband loves you, right? And I get the feeling you really want to stick this out....

so what happen if you went to your husband and said, "show me how much you love me. Don't tell me. Show me. Actions speak louder than words. Here are things that I think would help."

1. Come with me to see a MC that specializes in sex therapy. Lucky for you, I've already made an appointment and it fits in your schedule. 

2. Show me that you no longer have porn. I want full access to your devices. You've shattered my trust and I want you to earn it back, so for now we will be going on the "trust but verify" plan. 

3. I've scheduled you a full physical with your doctor. Go to the appointment. I fit it nicely in your schedule. 


I'm sure there are other things here that you can do or others that have good advice. I hate advising you to do more work. You shouldn't have to. Your husband is being lazy and selfish. You've already done well past your 50% of the marriage. I would look at these things as "experiments". It will help you gather data. You are doing the majority of the work, will he actually step up and show you that he cares? I just think you are in a situation Where talk is cheap. He can say that he is no longer watching porn. He can say that he loves you, but clearly you don't feel loved. Challenge his words. Make him put his money where his mouth is. If he really does love you, then that means he is willing to work with you to solve your problems. 

Lastly, I personally enjoyed going through the 5 love languages with my wife. That was fun. It certainly centered my efforts better on the things that I could do to ,ake her feel more loved.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> You sound like great wife material. You probably have a lot more options than you think.


Read this, OP, and then read it again. Then again. This is the message you need.

I wonder if @Mr.Married is an oil rig guy. I’ve worked with those men my whole career. It’s very unusual to find one that isn’t a wonderful, faithful husband and father. They’re the best men around, those guys.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I wonder if @Mr.Married is an oil rig guy. I’ve worked with those men


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

If I didn’t have my family (husband and son) I would work full time on a rig. I am so happy out there but I missed my baby and husband too much. Maybe after he leaves me for a 25-year-old I can work on the rigs until I retire. 😉😂


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> If he doesn't say hey baby, you're just hot anytime, something is amiss. Too much porn.


He's told me (in a sincere, non-rude tone of voice) that he finds me attractive sometimes, but not all the time. Lately he's shown an increased interest in my butt (mainly when I'm wearing tight pants). He's made an effort recently to tell me when he finds me attractive. Again, usually it's my butt. I don't know if he likes anything else, honestly.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> If someone is spanking to porn and neglecting or outright rejecting their partner., I do not see that as any real difference to being in an affair with another person.... the end result to the partner is the same.
> 
> What would you do if you found out he was getting down with another woman?
> My suggestion is do that.
> ...


I agree that porn causes laziness. In fact, over the years (before I knew about the porn), whenever we'd go a long time (say 5 weeks) without sex, I'd tearfully ask him if the reason he hadn't initiated sex was he wasn't attracted to me. He'd always say, "No, I'm attracted to you. I'm just lazy." Now I wonder how many of those long bouts were due to him taking care of his own needs and he was too lazy to take care of mine. BTW: When we do have sex, he's an excellent lover (not that I have anyone to compare to ). He always focuses on my needs and making me happy.

However, I disagree that porn doesn't cause men to lose interest in their wives. If every day you stare at pictures and videos of fancy newer model trucks with bigger tires and shiner paint jobs than your own 15-year-old dented pick-up with 250,000 miles on it, you're not going to start thinking it looks a little drab?


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> Ugh! He sounds really immature for 40, how old are his coworkers? Is he trying to keep up with a younger crowd?


All ages, but the one he was sending pictures back and forth to was younger and single.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes, his porn use has him ogling and masturbating to women with big fake boobs doing things no one but a paid porn or enslaved porn actress would do so now your sex life is taking a backseat. This is way more easier for him I guess. If he's looking at porn regularly, I would not say he's low drive. How do you know he might not be using local sex workers as well or spending money on sex cams?
> 
> I'm not sure you can unring the bell. Through watching it his expectations have been raised outside what is probable in real life. So you can certainly ask that he quit watching it and maybe he will eventually develop his attraction for you again, but that's no guarantee and it's almost impossible to get someone to quit using it since you can do it anywhere you have a cell phone.
> 
> Sorry he's decided his porn addiction is more important than your marriage.


I really can't be sure of anything. But I do think he could be low-drive. Besides our infrequent sex life, he says the porn use was occasional, not constant. I believe him because a long, long time ago we didn't have cell phones or Internet access, so a magazine or video was all he could use and it would have been hard to hide if he used them a lot. Even then our sex life was infrequent. I believe him when he says he's gone through spells of using it. I think they probably coincide with spells of increased interest in sex with me. I never could understand why he would go weeks without touching me and then all of a sudden be fired up and grab me for passionate sex when I hadn't done anything different. Now I know.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Make no mistake OP, he is replacing you in his mind with other women. That's sounds a whole lot like infidelity to me.
> But each person has their boundaries so whatever you can live with is fine for you.
> 
> Also I have a question. Are you sure he didn't escalate this to the next step? If this is life-long, then I'm wondering....
> ...


When his porn use first came out, one of the first things he said, without me asking, was "I never compare you to them" and "I never think about them when I'm with you." I hope to God that's the truth, but I'm not naive enough to have much hope. And no, I'm not sure he hasn't gone further. Again, he swears he hasn't. But don't they all?


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

I've told him I'm willing every day as soon as he gets home from work. Or in the morning before work. Or...


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Cletus said:


> Just going to put this out there, to be complete.
> 
> Being highly attracted to someone and wanting to have sex with them are not necessarily tied together. He may find you attractive, and still find the sex uninteresting. If true, that might be his fault, yours, or no one's.
> 
> ...


I get what you're saying. But I truly think he enjoys our sex life. Is it as wild as porn? No. We have kids in the next room. Plus after the initial few years of experimenting with a variety of positions, toys, locations, etc., we stuck with what worked for us both. I actually brought up the topic of variety before finding out about the porn. I offered to try just about anything he wanted. He said he was happy with our sex life how it was. I've offered again since finding out about the porn. He can't come up with anything. (No pun intended.) He probably wouldn't mind something new, but is too lazy to do it. He'd rather just watch someone else do it.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Young at Heart said:


> My heart goes out to you and your feelings of being unloved. I am a man and really identify with much of what you have posted.
> 
> With the exception of *Laurentium's comments, I would like to change the narrative.*
> 
> ...


Thank you for all of the great recommendations! He said he thinks he may have a medical problem. So a doctor sounds good. Obviously a therapist would be helpful. And I've heard that book mentioned on here before. If it has things I could try, I may have to give it a read. We've already been trying to negotiate a more frequent sex life that would be a compromise in what we each find ideal. As far as the photos--I'm a little pissed. I took a ton of pretty damn hot photos of myself and only some of them did he show interest in. And that was BEFORE he said I was a "5, 6, or 7." I don't think a professional could do much better. The affirmations is an interesting idea.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Northern.Guy said:


> This is heartbreaking. You have put so much effort and your husband doesn't realize what he has. I have distant experience with porn, and I know how harmful it is to a marriage. It has taken a decade to unravel the issues. It's easier to bury the problem, and it that's what we did. But the past few years we have been doing the work. It takes time and lots of communication about hard to talk about issues. It's more than a decade behind us and now there is one woman on earth that makes me sick with love and excitement. She might not be a 10 to other men, but to me there is no one hotter! A solid 10! I understand what caused your husband to get where he is (porn). The road to recovery takes time. Looking back, it grieves me that I ever grieved my wife by what I did. Men really don't understand the harm they are doing. They are robbing themselves as well as their spouse from everything marriage was intended to be. It is so beautiful to love and cherish your one and only wife. Men, there are things more important than physical sex. Sexual intimacy in marriage is much more than a physical act.


Your wife is lucky you've done such a turn-around. Is there anything you could recommend for my husband or me to do?


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Blondilocks said:


> This guy has never been a ball of fire in the bedroom. He devalues the OP's attractiveness because he doesn't see himself as attractive. Him seeing other men appreciate her charms might get him to sit up and take notice; but, it won't make him start to salivate over her.
> 
> OP, I'm sorry to say that you got a dud. He gets more out of solo sex than sex with you. If you want to settle for occasional sex with a lukewarm partner, then stick with your husband. Me? I would make him crawl over a football sized bed of hot coals before I would let his condescending, selfish ass within ten feet of me. Just think of all the great sex you could have had if he hadn't wasted your youth.


My youth wasn't completely wasted. We've had a lot of great sex over the years! (Just not in a row. Spaced out. Sometimes way out.) 

My husband is not condescending at all. Selfish? Definitely.

I agree he devalues my attractiveness because he doesn't see himself as attractive. I wish I knew what would make him salivate for me. Not too long ago, I joked that if we do get divorced, I'll send him some porn of me with my new husband!


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

PieceOfSky said:


> Can you imagine what life would be like if you were with someone who brought the same level of interest and desire to the relationship as you do, or what you would bring if there was a cycle of reciprocation?
> 
> Can you imagine such is possible, and that many achieve it? Do you feel such is possible — for you — with the right person, which may or may not be the one you are with?
> 
> ...


Oh, I believe I deserve better. And I'm getting better, one way or another. Without a worse crime, I don't see myself leaving my husband. Tearing up our family simply because my husband doesn't view me quite as highly as I want him to and because his sex drive (for whatever reason) isn't as high as mine--isn't going to happen. (This is assuming the porn is indeed over.) But if I find out about any worse form of unfaithfulness or if he ceases tending to my needs, I'll be gone.

And yes, I've thought about what it would be like if I was married to a man who felt the kind of desire I feel, who enjoyed the physical and emotional connection of sex on a regular basis as much as I do. I'd probably wear myself out in the first month!

Do I feel this is possible with my husband? Maybe. We're trying to fix things between us. Is it possible with some other man out there? If it's meant to be, I'll either find out something unforgivable that causes me to divorce my husband or I'll outlive him.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> OP I’m sorry you are here. I certainly feel the porn and perhaps an affair is effecting your marriage. How sure are you he isn’t having an affair. A year without sex is unusual even for low drive.
> 
> 2nd how often do you initiate?
> 
> ...


I'm sure he's not having a PA now. I can't be sure about in the past. But he's not the confident, player type, so it's not likely he'd have the um, you know, to make a move on someone.

I said in my lengthy original post that I don't initiate anymore due to frequent rejection. Currently I'm struggling just to submit to his advances because I'm so depressed with the whole situation.

If I ever found out about a PA, I couldn't get past it. I'm a jealous-natured woman. Just knowing he's looked at hundreds/thousands of naked women makes my blood boil. Those are real, living women who are out there somewhere in the world, who my husband has seen naked and watched do things he should never watch anyone but me do. So will I ever get completely past it? Probably not.

No, he's not on antidepressants. But I might be soon.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

hamadryad said:


> I am sorry for your situation and didn't read the whole thread, admittedly....but the part I bolded stuck out...
> 
> Yes, this could actually be a key to your situation....I hope you dont take it the wrong way, but this has been an issue that I have recognized....Some people are "lazy" daters and perhaps don't really put enough effort into deciding what it is that they actually want in a partner...It's easy to pick from someone that shows interest in a guy, for most guys they have to do the legwork and women often won't put themselves out there, waiting for guys to make a move..So maybe he is one of those types, then realized that he took what was being handed to him, rather than actually putting the effort into what he really wants? I dunno...just a thought..
> 
> ...


I've asked for brutal honesty. But he won't give it to me. If the unvarnished truth is he DOESN'T find me attractive or very little? All hell would break loose. I could not stay with a man who saw me that way. Especially since I know I'm pretty good looking, even at 40, and could find someone who valued me more. He knows I wouldn't stand for that, so he's not going to admit to that. He's not that stupid. In fact, since the conversation where he called me a "5, 6, or 7," he has tried to take it back and compliment me more often. But he never calls me beautiful or gorgeous. He just says I look good in my sexy outfits. Every once in a while he'll say I look hot.

I agree that sex shouldn't have to be negotiated, coerced, or begged for. It should come naturally between two people who love and desire each other.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> @Melinda82 This is very important IMO. The porn use is bad, but when he outright says you are only average at best, something isn't right. I'm not saying he should be dishonest and lie to you, but a husband should see his wife as very attractive. It should almost be on an instinctive level. When I tell my wife she is the most beautiful woman I know, I am being dead serious. I fully recognize that not everyone will agree, their wife is the most beautiful, lol or they should be to them.
> 
> I'm really surprised he said that. Some others have touched on it, but it seems logical that it comes from his own insecurity. If he sees himself as a 5 or 6 he may feel intimidated or at risk of losing you if you are too far above him. That's a lot of guessing though, hard to tell what is really going through his mind.
> 
> ...


Hell, no, I don't want to be with someone who thinks I'm only average attractiveness. That's why I'm on here posting. I want to try to figure out what the cause of his viewpoint is and if there is anything that can be done to change it. He may feel intimidated or at risk of losing me. Since losing weight, I'm a LOT sexier and more confident than I was before. I've always put effort into my appearance. He never has. Yet I still find him very attractive and sexy. Honestly hearing he only finds me average in attractiveness--after all the effort I put into looking sexy--made me feel even more upset and hopeless than finding out about the porn use. Before I believed he thought I was sexy and beautiful and he thought other women were, too. Now I know he just thinks other women are.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Melinda82 said:


> \......he thinks he may have a medical problem. So a doctor sounds good.
> 
> Obviously a therapist would be helpful.
> 
> ...


Great. Make sure he follows up on the doctor appointment.

As to the rest, you really need to figure out what you want and then put your heart in it. If I were you I would read the book, try many of the things in it, I would find a sex therapist, I would get the negotiations done (not try). Finally, there is a huge difference between do it yourself and a professional photographer.

Good luck.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I knew it was a matter of time before someone came on here and told the OP that her husband’s preference for porn was her fault. Now she needs to get porn made of herself, faked up of course, for him to use to ignore her. *What a horrible, hurtful thing to say.*


I also assume you read where the OP said, "......So I bought snugger, sexier clothes and lacy bras and panties, and *even took pictures of myself in them* (something I'd never done before), so he would have something acceptable to look at if he wanted to get aroused and/or masturbate when I'm not around.

Although I felt much sexier from these changes, his desire only improved slightly. Occasionally something I've worn or one of the photos has really turned him on, but other times he didn't notice, or showed only mild appreciation. During our marital discussions over the past several months, I pointed this out. Several times I told him I didn't feel like he was that attracted to me. ........"

Perhaps rather than being hurtful, I thought that I was just following her lead in what she was trying to do. A professional photographer can make ordinary people look exceptional far better than any photos of yourself. Her goal in much of what she posted was to be change the way her husband viewed her. She wanted to feel him desire her.

In addition to what you focused on, I made suggestions on talking to her husband about a potential medical condition, and another "hurtful?" thing I suggested was getting counseling with a sex therapist.

I also assume you read how the OP responded to my "hurtful comments" with her with her post,
".........Thank you for all of the great recommendations! He said he thinks he may have a medical problem. So a doctor sounds good. Obviously a therapist would be helpful. And I've heard that book mentioned on here before. If it has things I could try, I may have to give it a read. We've already been trying to negotiate a more frequent sex life......."


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Melinda82 said:


> I never think about them when I'm with you." I hope to God that's the truth, but I'm not naive enough to have much hope. But don't they all?


Not sure how many different ways I could put it to you. You thinking is completely off base when you assign that to “don’t they all”.

At that point men just as well not have a mouth at all because you speak for all of them with your false beliefs. This is an issue of YOU and of your HUSBAND.

Get off the “thinking of porn star” horse …. Most men aren’t riding in that saddle no matter how much you women love to believe it.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Melinda82 said:


> If the unvarnished truth is he DOESN'T find me attractive or very little? All hell would break loose. I could not stay with a man who saw me that way. Especially since I know I'm pretty good looking, even at 40, and could find someone who valued me more. He knows I wouldn't stand for that, so he's not going to admit to that. He's not that stupid. In fact, since the conversation where he called me a "5, 6, or 7," he has tried to take it back and compliment me more often. But he never calls me beautiful or gorgeous. He just says I look good in my sexy outfits. Every once in a while he'll say I look hot.


Seriously - I am a qualified therapist who works with this kind of situation every day. Perhaps have another look at my earlier post? This all has very little to do with how you look. Hot outfits and fancy photos won't change what's happening with him.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Laurentium said:


> Seriously - I am a qualified therapist who works with this kind of situation every day. Perhaps have another look at my earlier post? This all has very little to do with how you look. Hot outfits and fancy photos won't change what's happening with him.


This....

Knowing you are attractive and can get anyone you want is irrelevant...I've known plenty of guys with very attractive wives that are getting it elsewhere, for whatever reasons... Having people affirm that for you and build you up, won't help either...it may be helpful when and if you wind up single again, but when dealing with this problem with this guy, its irrelevant..

Unfortunately, sites like this won't ever reveal the total story because you typically only get one side...Without knowing what's happening in his head makes it very hard to offer any assistance.. It may easily be a "him" problem, but we don't know...I've known plenty of people that most would consider damaged goods go on to happier and healthier lives once out of the marriage/relationship...

You need to get him to open up somehow... Its hard, unlike problems with, say, money, which has a clearly defined solution(get a better job, pay down debt, downsize, etc), problems in the bedroom are awkward and uncomfortable to talk about, not easily resolved and IME once the sex ship sails it rarely comes back to port...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

hamadryad said:


> This....
> 
> Knowing you are attractive and can get anyone you want is irrelevant...I've known plenty of guys with very attractive wives that are getting it elsewhere, for whatever reasons... Having people affirm that for you and build you up, won't help either...it may be helpful when and if you wind up single again, but when dealing with this problem with this guy, its irrelevant..
> 
> ...


The part where you say, you need to get him to open up somehow is incorrect.....that keeps putting all the responsibility on her.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The part where you say, you need to get him to open up somehow is incorrect.....that keeps putting all the responsibility on her.


She at least needs to ensure he understands that he can tell her, even if it is devastating. As long as he thinks there might be a fight about, he isn't going to tell her anything.

Once she can get the reason, then she can go from there.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Laurentium said:


> Seriously - I am a qualified therapist who works with this kind of situation every day. Perhaps have another look at my earlier post? This all has very little to do with how you look. Hot outfits and fancy photos won't change what's happening with him.


But in reality hot outfits and sexy exchanges don't hurt, and help. It helps you first, and keeps the door open between you two. 

How he reacts is on him.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

jonty30 said:


> She at least needs to ensure he understands that he can tell her, even if it is devastating. As long as he thinks there might be a fight about, he isn't going to tell her anything.


If he doesn't know he can tell her whatever that is his dumbassness by this point.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Laurentium said:


> Seriously - I am a qualified therapist who works with this kind of situation every day. Perhaps have another look at my earlier post? This all has very little to do with how you look. Hot outfits and fancy photos won't change what's happening with him.


@Melinda82 , follow up with Laurentium. I've had experience with counseling and ran across porn issues and addictions that affect marriage and relationships. I think he's onto something with your husband and he's done a lot of work in the area and seen different individual cases.

On a different but possibly relevant note, How is his physical fitness?

Has he ever had blood work done and T levels checked?

Low T can be a factor.

Changes in diet and adopting a resistance training program (weight lifting) can really crank the dynamo in a man.

While the physical aspect should not be ignored, I do believe getting his head straightened out is vital.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> If he doesn't know he can tell her whatever that is his dumbassness by this point.


Dunno. People who come from traumatized backgrounds tend to think they are never safe. We don't know why he isn't opening up.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

After being M to his W for this long, the simple questions revealed so far, if he says he can't answer he's avoiding on purpose because he thinks it benefits his position. That's the reality.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> After being M to his W for this long, the simple questions revealed so far, if he says he can't answer he's avoiding on purpose because he thinks it benefits his position. That's the reality.


Regardless of the reason, the OP has to decide to accept how things or end the marriage. I know trauma and know that it's not simple. People who have been deeply traumatized don't heal, just like that.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

jonty30 said:


> Regardless of the reason, the OP has to decide to accept how things or end the marriage. I know trauma and know that it's not simple. People who have been deeply traumatized don't heal, just like that.


However nothing has traumatized him in the M. And he realizes what he's doing.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> However nothing has traumatized him in the M. And he realizes what he's doing.


You carry your childhood wounds with you.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Some do, some don't, all can move on from children issues. It's a choice. One must decide to deal with what's in front of you at some point.

I speak from experience. Some of my friends same.

Too many folks use things from childhood times as excuses. Not being unsympathetic but a realist.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Some do, some don't, all can move on from children issues. It's a choice. One must decide to deal with what's in front of you at some point.
> 
> I speak from experience. Some of my friends same.
> 
> Too many folks use things from childhood times as excuses. Not being unsympathetic but a realist.


Your not wrong in principle. Some people aren't able to take that leap.
What you suggest is how I dealt with my dear of heights. I went from hitting the deck at great heights to being able to deal with.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Ok. You've said that you know your husband loves you, right? And I get the feeling you really want to stick this out....
> 
> so what happen if you went to your husband and said, "show me how much you love me. Don't tell me. Show me. Actions speak louder than words. Here are things that I think would help."
> 
> ...


She would need to ask herself if she wants to be a wife or his mom. Those are the things mom's do. What's she going to do next, snoop through his room and look between the mattress and box springs for his stash of Playboys? 

Wives tend to want men that are developed and functional as men,, not little boys that they have to make doctors appointments for and look for their hidden stash of Playboys and Hustlers. 

If she has to be his mom, that will kill both of their desires for the other. It will kill her desire if he is a little boy that she has to make appointments for a look for his Playboys. And assuming he is not some kind of Oedipus or Norman Bates type psycho, her acting like his mother will kill off whatever desire he has left for her.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The part where you say, you need to get him to open up somehow is incorrect.....that keeps putting all the responsibility on her.


Unfortunately, the burden of the responsibility and the heavy lifting always falls on the shoulders of the person who wants things to change...If he is content in the marriage with ignoring her and beating off, then he isn't going to do anything about it....

Judging from what I have read, if she didn't take any action, then nothing would happen..., So yeah, it would be better if the other person took the initiative, but often they don't due to a variety of reasons..


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Melinda82 said:


> I'm sure he's not having a PA now. I can't be sure about in the past. But he's not the confident, player type, so it's not likely he'd have the um, you know, to make a move on someone.
> 
> I said in my lengthy original post that I don't initiate anymore due to frequent rejection. Currently I'm struggling just to submit to his advances because I'm so depressed with the whole situation.
> 
> ...


Please don’t discount a PA just because your husbands a *****. There are plenty of woman who are super aggressive and do all the work. 

in addition while his calling you a 5,6 or 7 could be anything from the truth to insecurity. It could also be gaslighting.

he can be downgrading you and gaslighting so that he has an excuse for his lack of physical touch.

and he should absolutely go to the doctor but lowT doesn’t really explain his lack of finding you attractive or general physical touch.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Please don’t discount a PA just because your husbands a ***. There are plenty of woman who are super aggressive and do all the work.
> 
> in addition while his calling you a 5,6 or 7 could be anything from the truth to insecurity. It could also be gaslighting.
> 
> ...


Exactly.
If I'm in an affair (even porn) it's easy to find every fault in my wife and every reason to justify my actions.
It doesn't make it real.

Kill the porn and there's a chance.
The fog will lift and suddenly you're a 10.
Maybe.

I don't see any other way.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Anastasia6 said:


> Please don’t discount a PA just because your husbands a ***. There are plenty of woman who are super aggressive and do all the work.
> 
> *in addition while his calling you a 5,6 or 7 could be anything from the truth to insecurity. It could also be gaslighting.*
> 
> ...


Yep. She's _only a 5, 6 or 7 _so of course he isn't going to be gaga over her. He does find her butt to be of interest occasionally. What kind of porn was he watching? That might give a clue as to what trips his trigger.

I understand he isn't a player; but, this guy has less than zero game. In the name of honesty, he manages to destroy her self-esteem and confidence. That is hurtful and totally unnecessary.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Melinda82 said:


> I agree that porn causes laziness. In fact, over the years (before I knew about the porn), whenever we'd go a long time (say 5 weeks) without sex, I'd tearfully ask him if the reason he hadn't initiated sex was he wasn't attracted to me. He'd always say, "No, I'm attracted to you. I'm just lazy." Now I wonder how many of those long bouts were due to him taking care of his own needs and he was too lazy to take care of mine. BTW: When we do have sex, he's an excellent lover (not that I have anyone to compare to ). He always focuses on my needs and making me happy.
> 
> However, I disagree that porn doesn't cause men to lose interest in their wives. If every day you stare at pictures and videos of fancy newer model trucks with bigger tires and shiner paint jobs than your own 15-year-old dented pick-up with 250,000 miles on it, you're not going to start thinking it looks a little drab?


You are right. Of course it affects how the porn user sees their spouse. How can it not? Everything we watch, read or listen to affects us for good or bad.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Yep. She's _only a 5, 6 or 7 _so of course he isn't going to be gaga over her. He does find her butt to be of interest occasionally. What kind of porn was he watching? That might give a clue as to what trips his trigger.
> 
> I understand he isn't a player; but, this guy has less than zero game. In the name of honesty, he manages to destroy her self-esteem and confidence. That is hurtful and totally unnecessary.


That's what I'm puttin' down 😉


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Yep. She's _only a 5, 6 or 7 _so of course he isn't going to be gaga over her. He does find her butt to be of interest occasionally. What kind of porn was he watching? That might give a clue as to what trips his trigger.
> 
> I understand he isn't a player; but, this guy has less than zero game. In the name of honesty, he manages to destroy her self-esteem and confidence. That is hurtful and totally unnecessary.


It's like saying, yes, he's stabbed me six times in the last 60 seconds, but it's not his fault. 

A bit graphic, but you get my drift.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Ok. You've said that you know your husband loves you, right? And I get the feeling you really want to stick this out....
> 
> so what happen if you went to your husband and said, "show me how much you love me. Don't tell me. Show me. Actions speak louder than words. Here are things that I think would help."
> 
> ...


The doctor and therapist appointments are definitely a good idea. As far as the full access goes: He gave me the password to his phone a long time ago. That's how I found the porn the first time. But now that he knows browser history can be deleted, I don't know how full access to his phone helps. Even if he's doing something worse (not that I think he is) like messaging someone, evidence can be deleted. We actually had a wrestling match over his phone the other day. He was acting suspicious and I demanded to see it. He finally gave in and I looked through browser histories, text messages, call logs, etc. and found nothing. I told him I knew he'd done something. He was just good at hiding it or he'd deleted it. He felt bad and showed me what it was. He'd been looking at short clips of scantily-clad women on YouTube. He thought I'd be mad. I told him I was, but it wasn't shocking. It wasn't as bad as porn. Plus I'd actually told him he could look at pictures of clothed women to try to figure out what his type was. That way if there was anything he found highly attractive (hair, clothes, etc.), I could try it. So why would I be mad? He said because he was looking at them so much. It seems he can't stop thinking about other women, even if it's not porn.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> Not sure how many different ways I could put it to you. You thinking is completely off base when you assign that to “don’t they all”.
> 
> At that point men just as well not have a mouth at all because you speak for all of them with your false beliefs. This is an issue of YOU and of your HUSBAND.
> 
> Get off the “thinking of porn star” horse …. Most men aren’t riding in that saddle no matter how much you women love to believe it.


I'm sorry if I offended you. I wasn't saying ALL MEN who use porn say that. I was saying ALL LIARS will deny things that are true when confronted with the truth. I really don't think many men (or women) would admit, "Yes, while we're having sex, I was imagining you were that hot girl (or guy) in the porn clip I just saw."


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My experience is that over time, deceit — in whatever form it takes — will destroy love and trust and respect. Turn-arounds in marriage (real recovery and not pretend recovery) happen but the effort that takes is substantial and failures are common. Unless your husband sees the need to deal with whatever issues he has he’s not going to permanently change.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Melinda82 said:


> I'm sorry if I offended you. I wasn't saying ALL MEN who use porn say that. I was saying ALL LIARS will deny things that are true when confronted with the truth. I really don't think many men (or women) would admit, "Yes, while we're having sex, I was imagining you were that hot girl (or guy) in the porn clip I just saw."


no worries… you don’t ever have to apologize !! 😉


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Melinda82 said:


> Yes, while we're having sex, I was imagining you were that hot girl (or guy) in the porn clip I just saw."


My wife usually says it was Aquaman 🤣🤣


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Melinda82 said:


> All ages, but the one he was sending pictures back and forth to was younger and single.


He was sharing porn with another man, right? Were there any women involved in this exchange?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> The doctor and therapist appointments are definitely a good idea. As far as the full access goes: He gave me the password to his phone a long time ago. That's how I found the porn the first time. But now that he knows browser history can be deleted, I don't know how full access to his phone helps. Even if he's doing something worse (not that I think he is) like messaging someone, evidence can be deleted. We actually had a wrestling match over his phone the other day. He was acting suspicious and I demanded to see it. He finally gave in and I looked through browser histories, text messages, call logs, etc. and found nothing. I told him I knew he'd done something. He was just good at hiding it or he'd deleted it. He felt bad and showed me what it was. He'd been looking at short clips of scantily-clad women on YouTube. He thought I'd be mad. I told him I was, but it wasn't shocking. It wasn't as bad as porn. Plus I'd actually told him he could look at pictures of clothed women to try to figure out what his type was. That way if there was anything he found highly attractive (hair, clothes, etc.), I could try it. So why would I be mad? He said because he was looking at them so much. It seems he can't stop thinking about other women, even if it's not porn.


I can't tell you how very sad this reads. Basically, he finds anyone but you attractive. And, here you are being the faithful monkey, donning that tutu and dancing to the accordion for your little bit of attention.

You can't chastise him or adopt another woman's hair style or clothes or wonder bra to entice him into finding you a turn-on. He doesn't see you in that light. I would think he might suffer from the Madonna/hore complex except it seems his behavior started before children arrived on the scene.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> The doctor and therapist appointments are definitely a good idea. As far as the full access goes: He gave me the password to his phone a long time ago. That's how I found the porn the first time. But now that he knows browser history can be deleted, I don't know how full access to his phone helps. Even if he's doing something worse (not that I think he is) like messaging someone, evidence can be deleted. We actually had a wrestling match over his phone the other day. He was acting suspicious and I demanded to see it. He finally gave in and I looked through browser histories, text messages, call logs, etc. and found nothing. I told him I knew he'd done something. He was just good at hiding it or he'd deleted it. He felt bad and showed me what it was. He'd been looking at short clips of scantily-clad women on YouTube. He thought I'd be mad. I told him I was, but it wasn't shocking. It wasn't as bad as porn. Plus I'd actually told him he could look at pictures of clothed women to try to figure out what his type was. That way if there was anything he found highly attractive (hair, clothes, etc.), I could try it. So why would I be mad? He said because he was looking at them so much. It seems he can't stop thinking about other women, even if it's not porn.


He needs some sort of help.

look, every man is going to notice beautiful women. I definitely do - but the difference is that I strongly desire my wife. Especially when she does things like what you are describing. Dressing up? Acting sexy? My wife has my undivided attention. She can drive me wild and I can think of no other.

he has some sort of addiction that he has to want to solve. You can’t solve it for him. I think you should talk to him about it, but he has to want to overcome this.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> @Melinda82 , follow up with Laurentium. I've had experience with counseling and ran across porn issues and addictions that affect marriage and relationships. I think he's onto something with your husband and he's done a lot of work in the area and seen different individual cases.
> 
> On a different but possibly relevant note, How is his physical fitness?
> 
> ...


After reading on here for months, I was also wondering about his testosterone levels. My husband is active and reasonably fit (with a little bit of a spare tire). I think his health could be a part of it. But no, I don't think it's all of it either. He definitely has other issues that if we can't figure out on our own, really need to be addressed by a therapist. I think he'd benefit from individual counseling, possibly more than marital or sex counseling. Problems: 1) Husband is anti-doctor. 2) No insurance. So if I want to get him there, it's going to be a LOT of work for me.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> After reading on here for months, I was also wondering about his testosterone levels. My husband is active and reasonably fit (with a little bit of a spare tire). I think his health could be a part of it. But no, I don't think it's all of it either. He definitely has other issues that if we can't figure out on our own, really need to be addressed by a therapist. I think he'd benefit from individual counseling, possibly more than marital or sex counseling. Problems: 1) Husband is anti-doctor. 2) No insurance. So if I want to get him there, it's going to be a LOT of work for me.


If you have good income, there are counselors and therapists that will be glad to do a cash deal and could probably save overall costs by cutting out the middleman.

As to issue no. 1, he needs to get his ass in gear and get over his BS then if he doesn't want professional help.😉


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. Laurentium might have some financially frugal online resources you could tap or even a couple of suggestions to get him headed in the right direction.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> I'm sorry if I offended you. I wasn't saying ALL MEN who use porn say that. I was saying ALL LIARS will deny things that are true when confronted with the truth. I really don't think many men (or women) would admit, "Yes, while we're having sex, I was imagining you were that hot girl (or guy) in the porn clip I just saw."


LoL! I picture Mrs. Conan but she's a tart I picked up at a bar, some poor schmucks wife or even Batgirl on special occasions.😉

It's her I'm looking at and imagining, the physical package is the same, but just doing a little roleplaying.🙂


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Blondilocks said:


> Yep. She's _only a 5, 6 or 7 _so of course he isn't going to be gaga over her. He does find her butt to be of interest occasionally. What kind of porn was he watching? That might give a clue as to what trips his trigger.
> 
> I understand he isn't a player; but, this guy has less than zero game. In the name of honesty, he manages to destroy her self-esteem and confidence. That is hurtful and totally unnecessary.


Like I mentioned in my super-long original post, a lot of the titles of the porn on his browser history had "big titties" in them. The couple photos of scantily clad women I saw had breasts larger than DD on size small women--obviously implants. 

I developed severe insecurity about my breasts after finding that out months ago. I didn't even want him to look at or touch my breasts for a couple months. However, I never stopped having sex with him. It made sex interesting, especially since I need stimulation there in order to fully enjoy sex. Surprisingly, my husband found this "punishment" highly arousing. When I finally lifted the taboo, he said he was a little sad and I could make them off-limits again sometime! 

Since then he's told me repeatedly that he loves my breasts and the rest of my body. But I feel like it's just words. I've told him I think he just loves my breasts because they're the only ones available. I told him if he had another woman with bigger breasts to choose from, he'd choose her. In a not-too-confident tone, he said, "I don't think so."


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Melinda82 said:


> So, has my husband's porn use caused decreased attraction and low desire for me--a live, willing woman whose body isn't perfect, but who tries to look and act sexy and loves sex? Or has he always been low-drive and/or not highly attracted to me and porn either hasn't caused any problems in our sex life (other than my own hurt feelings) or has actually helped (by putting him in the mood)? Is my anger and hurt understandable, or am I making too much of things? And if I should just try to move past this, how do I regain my shattered sexual confidence and get back to the flirty, enthusiastic wife I used to be?


I've already given my thoughts on porn in general (laziness) 

But in going back through the original post and some of your subsequent posts, there are more things going on and there is a bigger picture here than just some guy sneaking off into the bathroom to spank over some big boob pictures. 

I'm not condoning chronic or compulsive porn use at all. If that is what is taking place, that needs to be addressed and corrected. 

But there's more here than a dude spanking over big boob pictures. 

A lot of your posts seem to be centered around him not responding to you in the horny, sexy manner that you would prefer. I get that, I wish my spouse was hot for me as well. 

But part of this dynamic is you have been together over 20 years since you were teens. I have no doubt you are a very attractive and sexy lady, but he's a 40 year old man, you're a 40 year old woman and you have been together for over 20 years. He is not going to treat you the same way his 19 year old self treated your 19 year old self 20+ years ago. 

Even you were Mila Kunis (38) he wouldn't react to you the way he did when he was 19 because he is now 40 and has been with you daily for over 20 years. That limerance and honeymoon phase and all of those associated hormones, fade away after decades of daily life of bills, child-rearing, car repairs, diarrhea etc etc etc 

I am NOT excusing him rejecting and denying you!! I would never outright refuse my partner even if she was objectively a 3 or 4 because I do not believe rejection and denial have any place in a relationship. I believe if someone does not want to be intimate with their partner, divorce them so you can find someone you want to be with and they can find someone that wants to be with them. ... or at least give them a hallpass to get those needs met elsewhere. 

So I am not excusing him for neglecting your needs or spending that time and energy on porn instead of love'n you up. 

But, we have to temper this with the fact that neither of you are 19 year olds in a brand new relationship anymore and you can not use that standard as a metric to measure the validity of your marriage today. 

From your posts, it sounds like he has never been a wild and untamed thing or much of a stud boy. That's not going to get any better the older you both get and the longer you are together. 

He is dropping the ball in meeting your needs. That needs to be addressed and improved if you are to remain together. 

But along with that, you can not measure him by a 19 year old's standard in a new relationship. 

My own humble opinion here is that your whole relationship may be at some kind of crossroads. You've spent over half your lives together and have raised a home and family. But in the big picture, you are both still young and both still have a lot of life and a lot of runway left infront of you. 

Yes, you would be able to put up a Tinder profile and several dates with a variety of hot, horny guys that would thank their lucky stars you've given them the time of day that would crawl through broken glass and rusty thumbtacks to get your clothes off. You could have that several times over by Sunday night. 

And assuming he's not morbidly obese or chronically unemployed in a matter of a several months or a year or so, he too could be dating a woman or two that he thinks more than a 5 or 6. 

But this is something that you will each need to do some pretty serious soul searching and thoughtful comtemplation. 

My suggestion is to seek professional marital counseling and prehaps even some individual counseling as well in an effort to peel through the layers and see where your head and heart are really at. 

You are wording a lot of your posts in this thread that he has lost attraction and affection for you. But I wonder if it much of it is really the other way around and you are simply getting bored and done with him and that this marriage has run it's course and you're starting to look towards the horizon for something else.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> He was sharing porn with another man, right? Were there any women involved in this exchange?


No women. The guy was a younger, single ex-co-worker who lived a wilder life-style than my husband. They texted memes back and forth. Many of them were very crude and some were of women, which is why he hid them from me.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Blondilocks said:


> I can't tell you how very sad this reads. Basically, he finds anyone but you attractive. And, here you are being the faithful monkey, donning that tutu and dancing to the accordion for your little bit of attention.
> 
> You can't chastise him or adopt another woman's hair style or clothes or wonder bra to entice him into finding you a turn-on. He doesn't see you in that light. I would think he might suffer from the Madonna/hore complex except it seems his behavior started before children arrived on the scene.


Honestly, I think he's just bored with me and curious about what else is out there. He's been with me his entire adult life as I have with him. He had very little experience before me and I had none before him. I admit I wonder what it would be like to kiss someone else. The differences are: I am honest about that and I don't do anything to act on it. I don't look at photos or videos of other men and imagine being with them. More than once over the years, I've had a man try to kiss me, and I've rejected him. I hope my husband is never put in that situation with another woman trying to put moves on him. I don't know how he would react. Actually if she had huge breasts, I probably do know how he'd react.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> LoL! I picture Mrs. Conan but she's a tart I picked up at a bar, some poor schmucks wife or even Batgirl on special occasions.😉
> 
> It's her I'm looking at and imagining, the physical package is the same, but just doing a little roleplaying.🙂


That would be fine with me. I do exactly the same thing. Without a little mental stimulation, it's often hard for me to finish. My husband and I used to do roleplay. Now I just do it in my head. I've told him that's fine if he does it, too. It's not fine if he's actually picturing some other woman.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

I did not get to read every single reply (although I read most). I do not think porn is the actual issue. He used that as a poor choice outlet, but it could have been being out drinking every day, or constant golf, or some other way to avoid intimacy. I will not excuse your husbands behavior, but my guess is it stems from his own insecurity or something about himself and nothing to do with you. I have some friends that I have been sharing some of my marriage issues with, and one of them admitted that he avoids sex often because he is embarrassed about a premature ejaculation issue. He ends up using porn and masturbation, not because he does not want to be with his wife, but he has deep shame that he finishes so quickly. Again...not saying it is right, but it was true. 

Although I have never heard someone tell me first hand, many men with ED also feel that shame and avoid sex and would rather say hurtful things to their spouse that admit the issue is them.

I am not suggesting giving into the porn and for sure NOT giving in to how he treats you, but you may find some value in changing the conversation or your investigations into what may be driving his insecurities. 

For my friend who suffered premature ejaculation shame, he recently asked his wife if they could intentionally have intercourse free sex for a while (no PIV), and he would work with his doctor on the premature issue. She gladly accepted.....now he wonders why he avoided sex for some many years.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> Honestly, I think he's just bored with me and curious about what else is out there. He's been with me his entire adult life as I have with him. He had very little experience before me and I had none before him. I admit I wonder what it would be like to kiss someone else. The differences are: I am honest about that and I don't do anything to act on it. I don't look at photos or videos of other men and imagine being with them. More than once over the years, I've had a man try to kiss me, and I've rejected him. I hope my husband is never put in that situation with another woman trying to put moves on him. I don't know how he would react. Actually if she had huge breasts, I probably do know how he'd react.


This is still a mental issue for him.
Yes, it is human nature to be curious what else is out there if you haven’t experienced it. I get that. I’ve only ever been with my wife. Thing is though, as long as she desires me, that’s all I’ll ever need or want. So if he has to scratch some itch elsewhere, that’s a mental problem with him. 

again, what you are talking about here and the effort you are putting in….. I don’t even know what to say. I don’t understand how women like yourself find the dud man. The vast majority of us would be be waking up every day thinking “today will be the best day ever!”

I personally think you should be thinking about your exit. I get you love him and I understand the history, but if he can’t put in the effort for you, then you shouldn’t ruin your own happiness for him. That’s not fair to you and it isn’t fair to your children. I get it that a divorce would hurt the children, but that would pass. I think it would be much worse to have them in a house where you aren’t happy for many years.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

jonty30 said:


> You carry your childhood wounds with you.


I don't disagree on this, certain sh!t still crosses my mind without exception daily. I skitter it on through, in, gone. 

My choice is I acknowledge yes things were fd up, but that's not the present times. Many do. Some don't, true, but it isn't uncommon to move on.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Have you read anything about how porn affects the brain? If your husband has been doing this since he was a kid, it impacts how he views sex and how his desire works. It's all linked to porn. That was how he developed. He was probably exposed right at puberty and developed his beliefs about sex based on porn.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I've already given my thoughts on porn in general (laziness)
> 
> But in going back through the original post and some of your subsequent posts, there are more things going on and there is a bigger picture here than just some guy sneaking off into the bathroom to spank over some big boob pictures.
> 
> ...


I agree with some of what you've said, but not all. 

Starting with the last thing, I am NOT the one who has lost affection or desire for my husband, at least not until I found out how little he appreciates me. I was as horny as I've ever been. I still think he's as sexy as ever. I have always thought marriage was for life and nothing short of infidelity or death would make us part. I still feel that way. I don't want out. Believe me, if I did, my husband has done and said plenty of things that would allow me to bail with my head held high. Just on this thread alone, I've been told countless times to dump him. What I want is to fix this marriage, not get a new one. If this marriage did end, I don't think I could ever get over it or be completely devoted to anyone else. I definitely wouldn't be able to trust ever again. 

Also, my husband has NEVER been high-drive and super affectionate with me after our initial honeymoon phase. Even when he was around 19 to 21, I was getting neglected. Why? I always thought it was low-drive, possibly a health problem. Now I wonder if it could have been porn all along, a lack of strong attraction to me all along, or some other thing I've yet to discover. 

And I don't think it's unreasonable for me to want my husband to view me and want me the way ConanHub and LATERILUS79 do their long-term wives.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If I could have a little leeway here, let me try to flip this around and write a newbie post as Mr Miranda82 from his perspective. 

I am basing a lot of this on the countless, "My wife is losing weight and dressing sexier but mad at me...." posts that we get here frequently. 

"Hello, I am new here. I am hoping to get some insight and advice on what might be going on with my wife lately. 

We are both in our early 40s and have been together since we were teens. Admittedly, I did not have much experience with girls and she was my first GF and the only person I have ever been with. In many ways, our relationship has been good, but it seems like things were always a little off in the bedroom. 

Some times things would seem to go well, but I could always tell she would seem to want more and that I was not always....shall we say, "up" for the occasion and I could tell she was frustrated with me. Some times she would orgasm, but other times I couldn't get her there. 

There were times we would both try hard and it would go ok for awhile. But then there would be times that she would pull away and we could go weeks or months and one time we even went a whole year without sex at all. We didn't even have any real cuddling or physical affection or anything much of that time and if either of us kind of tried to reach out, it would just feel awkward and uncomfortable for both of us. 

I admit I have made some mistakes and haven't been the perfect husband. I started watching porn even though I knew she had some body image issues and the thought of me watching porn made her uncomfortable. Since she wasn't really approaching me for sex anymore and seemed irritated with me a lot of the time, I figured what could it hurt, it's not like she was wanting to have sex with me. After all there were times we'd go months and even a year where she didn't approach me at all. 

Well she found out about the porn and go really upset. She told me I wasn't doing it for her and that she was really dissatisfied with out sex life and basically made me feel like some kind of park pervert for watching it. 

I have stopped, but I'm not sure she believes me and she is still angry with me all the time and still not ever initiating sex with me which she used to do frequently. 

Now things are really tense and she is really cold and irritated with me and she is even getting short with the kids at times. 

Lately I have tried to tell her I think she is attractive and that I love her, but I don't think it's been enough. 

What concerns me know is she has started working and dieting and losing a lot of weight and has been buying new sexy clothes and even lacy underwear. She has even started taking pictures of herself in her new clothes and showing them to me and telling me how much weight she has lost and how good she is looking now. 

I admit she looks great but now I am concerned about her motives for doing so. Who is she taking these pictures for and who else is she sending them too??

Even though she is looking great and I am trying to be more affectionate and loving with her, she is still uncomfortable and standoffish with me and seems irritated and angry with me all the time. 

I don't think she is cheating but why is she obsessed with losing weight and buying new, sexy clothes and taking pictures of herself and talking about how good she is looking now? Could she be seeing someone else or looking for someone else?

Help!!! 

Mr Miranda82"


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Melinda82 said:


> He'd been looking at short clips of scantily-clad women on YouTube. He thought I'd be mad. I told him I was, but it wasn't shocking. It wasn't as bad as porn. Plus I'd actually told him he could look at pictures of clothed women to try to figure out what his type was. That way if there was anything he found highly attractive (hair, clothes, etc.), I could try it. So why would I be mad? He said because he was looking at them so much. It seems he can't stop thinking about other women, even if it's not porn.


This was just the other day...?? THIS is a very bad sign about his commitment and dedication to giving up porn and focusing his sexual energy on you....this should not be ok with you at all. He's NOT following his agreement with you, he doesn't want to stop.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Married_in_michigan said:


> I did not get to read every single reply (although I read most). I do not think porn is the actual issue. He used that as a poor choice outlet, but it could have been being out drinking every day, or constant golf, or some other way to avoid intimacy. I will not excuse your husbands behavior, but my guess is it stems from his own insecurity or something about himself and nothing to do with you. I have some friends that I have been sharing some of my marriage issues with, and one of them admitted that he avoids sex often because he is embarrassed about a premature ejaculation issue. He ends up using porn and masturbation, not because he does not want to be with his wife, but he has deep shame that he finishes so quickly. Again...not saying it is right, but it was true.
> 
> Although I have never heard someone tell me first hand, many men with ED also feel that shame and avoid sex and would rather say hurtful things to their spouse that admit the issue is them.
> 
> ...


My husband doesn't have any ED or premature ejaculation problems. I don't think he has any insecurities in the bedroom. He knows I enjoy everything he does.

But you're right that it may be something he does to cope with other issues he has. My husband has always run hot and cold, like two different men. I've always joked that I'm supposed to be the hormonal one. But my drive is constant and unwavering (although it does increase higher at certain points). Yet he will be offish with no physical affection, no verbal affection, and no sex one day (or usually several days) and then all of a sudden he's flirting, smiling, touching, kissing, and wanting me. I've never been able to understand it.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

Melinda82 said:


> My husband doesn't have any ED or premature ejaculation problems. I don't think he has any insecurities in the bedroom. He knows I enjoy everything he does.
> 
> But you're right that it may be something he does to cope with other issues he has. My husband has always run hot and cold, like two different men. I've always joked that I'm supposed to be the hormonal one. But my drive is constant and unwavering (although it does increase higher at certain points). Yet he will be offish with no physical affection, no verbal affection, and no sex one day (or usually several days) and then all of a sudden he's flirting, smiling, touching, kissing, and wanting me. I've never been able to understand it.


So...with what you described, sounds like even if its not ED or premature, it may be his own issues or insecurities of some type. My point...its not you, your attractiveness, your desire, or your willingness. Its his issue. 

Now, his issue or not, you are suffering the ramifications and that is not ok. 

Dont beat yourself up....its not you......its him


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

LATERILUS79 said:


> This is still a mental issue for him.
> Yes, it is human nature to be curious what else is out there if you haven’t experienced it. I get that. I’ve only ever been with my wife. Thing is though, as long as she desires me, that’s all I’ll ever need or want. So if he has to scratch some itch elsewhere, that’s a mental problem with him.
> 
> again, what you are talking about here and the effort you are putting in….. I don’t even know what to say. I don’t understand how women like yourself find the dud man. The vast majority of us would be be waking up every day thinking “today will be the best day ever!”
> ...


I know he doesn't deserve me. HE knows he doesn't deserve me. He's said so. But I won't give up on this marriage until I know, without a doubt, I've tried everything and my life is going to be miserable if I don't leave. During the year of no sex (and no other affection from him), I felt worse than if I'd been alone. Living in the same house and sleeping in the same bed with someone who you desperately want to be held by and touched by and kissed by, who doesn't even glance your way, is torture and worse than being alone. If that ever happens again, I'm gone. He knows that and says it never will happen again. He's trying to do everything I ask. He's increased the affection, compliments, and initiation. But the problem is me now. I don't respond to it the way I used to because I'm so hurt. And because I think he doesn't really mean it. He'd rather be with some big-breasted porn star. I feel like he's forcing it, trying to force a display of attraction that he admits isn't very high.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Melinda82 said:


> Also, my husband has NEVER been high-drive and super affectionate with me after our initial honeymoon phase. Even when he was around 19 to 21, I was getting neglected. Why? I always thought it was low-drive, possibly a health problem. Now I wonder if it could have been porn all along, a lack of strong attraction to me all along, or some other thing I've yet to discover.
> 
> And I don't think it's unreasonable for me to want my husband to view me and want me the way ConanHub and LATERILUS79 do their long-term wives.


Let me address this above and then I will address the rest in a separate post. 

Add me (58 years old) to Conan and Laterilus as someone who is still a horndog and still finds my wife very attractive after 20+ years of marriage.

But, we have all been horndogs and very sexual and very sexually assertive and flirtatious etc since Day One. 


I would still be good to go several times a week and probably even daily if I had a partner that still had that level of libido and could keep up. It would be a dream cum true let me tell ya!! 

But even I don't have the prowess and vigor that I did 20some years ago. 

The fact that he has never been at that level of sexual vitality, probably indicates that's just who and what he is. You can't buy a bulldog and expect it win any dog races down at the greyhound park. 

"Could' he have been spanking to porn and draining his tank all this time and leaving nothing in the tank for you?? i suppose it's possible, but I doubt it. 

Unlike some of the female posters here, I don't think porn creates such unrealistic expectations in women's appearance that guys actually lose attraction to their wives in favor of the porn chicks. I just don't. I'm not anti porn and there's some that I like. My wife is a lot better looking that a lot of the gals that I've liked in porn. I agree with @Laurentium that your weight and your style of dress does not have anything to do with what is happening here. 

Do I think porn is a significant contributing factor to your marital issues? = YES

Do I think him watching porn has caused him to find other women more attractive and then by default you less attractive? = NO

Do I think you have a spectrum and variety of a number of communication and relationship issues going on? = ABSOLUTELY

Do I think it's fixable? = If he is willing to step up to the plate and address the issues and put in the work and you two get some professional assistance in sorting this all out and offering some nuts and bolts homework and things to do ABSOLUTELY. 

But if allowed to fester and neither of you take any proactive and positive measures to fix it, I think this could spiral out of control really bad.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> I know he doesn't deserve me. HE knows he doesn't deserve me. He's said so. But I won't give up on this marriage until I know, without a doubt, I've tried everything and my life is going to be miserable if I don't leave. During the year of no sex (and no other affection from him), I felt worse than if I'd been alone. Living in the same house and sleeping in the same bed with someone who you desperately want to be held by and touched by and kissed by, who doesn't even glance your way, is torture and worse than being alone. If that ever happens again, I'm gone. He knows that and says it never will happen again. He's trying to do everything I ask. He's increased the affection, compliments, and initiation. But the problem is me now. I don't respond to it the way I used to because I'm so hurt. And because I think he doesn't really mean it. He'd rather be with some big-breasted porn star. I feel like he's forcing it, trying to force a display of attraction that he admits isn't very high.


How long will you really be happy knowing he doesn’t want to be there? You deserve so much more than someone who thinks they’re settling for you.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> I know he doesn't deserve me. HE knows he doesn't deserve me. He's said so. But I won't give up on this marriage until I know, without a doubt, I've tried everything and my life is going to be miserable if I don't leave. During the year of no sex (and no other affection from him), I felt worse than if I'd been alone. Living in the same house and sleeping in the same bed with someone who you desperately want to be held by and touched by and kissed by, who doesn't even glance your way, is torture and worse than being alone. If that ever happens again, I'm gone. He knows that and says it never will happen again. He's trying to do everything I ask. He's increased the affection, compliments, and initiation. But the problem is me now. I don't respond to it the way I used to because I'm so hurt. And because I think he doesn't really mean it. He'd rather be with some big-breasted porn star. I feel like he's forcing it, trying to force a display of attraction that he admits isn't very high.


I wish I had an answer for you. I feel your pain. I have dealt with a full year and no sex in my past. It is an awful feeling. It definitely feels like torture. I know exactly what you mean by being alone would be a better option. 

I would imagine that you have a lot of resentment built up. I do as well. It isn't easy to deal with especially since you've lost so much trust in your husband. 

When you say that the problem is you now, do you think maybe some of that feeling is wanting to get "even" or some sense of justice on your husband for his mistreatment of you? Make him feel some of the pain that you have felt? I know for me that I've done that before. It doesn't help. It makes things worse - but if you do feel that way, I understand and I know what that feels like. 

Like I've mentioned in my previous posts, it seems like you are going to have to do the extra work here because you really want to stay with your husband. I only say that because it does sound like he is extremely lazy here as it concerns your marriage, which is unfortunate. Even if you do extra work now to work on your marriage, he eventually has to pick up the slack and WANT to be with you or else you'll just resent him more. Staying together means you guys need help. I don't see you all coming to a compromise with each other on your own. He will need to work hard to regain your trust, and it doesn't sound like he is listening to you about your needs to get to that point. I think a 3rd party is required to help him understand. 

At the end of the day, he has to want it. If he doesn't, then you'll just keep spinning your wheels.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

LATERILUS79 said:


> He needs some sort of help.
> 
> look, every man is going to notice beautiful women. I definitely do - but the difference is that I strongly desire my wife. Especially when she does things like what you are describing. Dressing up? Acting sexy? My wife has my undivided attention. She can drive me wild and I can think of no other.
> 
> he has some sort of addiction that he has to want to solve. You can’t solve it for him. I think you should talk to him about it, but he has to want to overcome this.


Or he’s just an ass.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Melinda82 said:


> Starting with the last thing, I am NOT the one who has lost affection or desire for my husband, at least not until I found out how little he appreciates me. I was as horny as I've ever been. I still think he's as sexy as ever. I have always thought marriage was for life and nothing short of infidelity or death would make us part. I still feel that way. I don't want out. Believe me, if I did, my husband has done and said plenty of things that would allow me to bail with my head held high. Just on this thread alone, I've been told countless times to dump him. What I want is to fix this marriage, not get a new one. If this marriage did end, I don't think I could ever get over it or be completely devoted to anyone else. I definitely wouldn't be able to trust ever again.


That is all very admirable and would even be encouraging depending on HIS level of engagement and reciprocity. 

In otherwords, it's great you are willing to work on it and find a fix, but if he doesn't uphold his end or do any heavy lifting on his part, then it's a no-go. It takes two working together to fix it, but only one with inaction to flush it. 
If he is sincere and puts in the effort, I think this can be corrected to a point. But remember he is has never been a sexual dynamo so there is good chance that even with work and effort from both of you, it may reach a point of some warmth and some consistency, but will probably never be hot, monkey sex. 

My other caveat is do not take this lightly. Do not underestimate the destruction that chronic sexual dysfunction and dissatisfaction can have. 

Many people will say that one shouldn't end a marriage "over sex." But the only people that say that, are ones that have either good or at least functional sex lives. When the sex life is good or at least functional, it doesn't seem like it should be a deal breaker. 

But when it is bad, over time it will poison and undermine all other facets of the relationship. You may say that you love him and that other areas of your marriage are good.......... but for how long? How much longer before the constant chipping away of one of the big pillars of the foundation causes everything to collapse? 

You have a lot of years left ahead of you. Can you go another 40 years like this?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Y


Melinda82 said:


> I agree with some of what you've said, but not all.
> 
> Starting with the last thing, I am NOT the one who has lost affection or desire for my husband, at least not until I found out how little he appreciates me. I was as horny as I've ever been. I still think he's as sexy as ever. I have always thought marriage was for life and nothing short of infidelity or death would make us part. I still feel that way. I don't want out. Believe me, if I did, my husband has done and said plenty of things that would allow me to bail with my head held high. Just on this thread alone, I've been told countless times to dump him. What I want is to fix this marriage, not get a new one. If this marriage did end, I don't think I could ever get over it or be completely devoted to anyone else. I definitely wouldn't be able to trust ever again.
> 
> ...


Yes the dribble about 20 year relationship being boring is only for some men. My husband still gets horny for me on a regular based. Still desires me and if you read this site there are plenty of 20+ year marriages with lust still going on. Guess what almost all of those men don’t use porn. I know my hubby doesn’t, Conan doesnt I don’t think BDNY does.

this is a problem with your husband.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> Y
> 
> Yes the dribble about 20 year relationship being boring is only for some men. My husband still gets horny for me on a regular based. Still desires me and if you read this site there are plenty of 20+ year marriages with lust still going on. Guess what almost all of those men don’t use porn. I know my hubby doesn’t, Conan doesnt I don’t think BDNY does.
> 
> this is a problem with your husband.


Is true. After 38yrs of M, theres not a day goes by I'm not grabbing Mrs. Ragnar's fine rear end or grabbing a kiss any time. Sex is always on the table.
Or, on the counter, or chair 😎.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Anastasia6 said:


> Y
> 
> Yes the dribble about 20 year relationship being boring is only for some men.


It's usually women that get bored and lose attraction and desire after years of marriage.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> It's usually women that get bored and lose attraction and desire after years of marriage.


Sad but true. But not always. Mrs. Ragnar got six stitches from a minor procedure Monday, but Wed when she called me in to change the bandage she was naked with a glint in her eye. Now that's love!
I changed the bandage, and joined her. Carefully.

And last night. Her idea. I was trying to be a good H but she had other ideas. So I ended up being a great H and dived right in.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

@Melinda82, You are not bored with your husband. If your husband is bored with you, it's because you require effort. Porn girls do not. You say he's always seemed low drive, and perhaps he is, yet, he continued to use porn rather than giving his wife his attention and affection. 

From what you've said, it sounds like he only give you affection when he wants sex from you.

I can understand you not wanting to blow up your marriage while you have young children. That's valid. However, your husband needs a change of heart in order to be a good, loving husband to you. If his thinking and belief system doesn't change, anything he does will only be temporary.

You say you don't trust his words. I wouldn't trust him either. He says he doesn't find you especially attractive, but when you are hurt by that, he starts to tell you how attractive you are. That wouldn't convince me either. He seems to do whatever is convenient for him and he thinks will work to keep you around as his wife appliance.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> I know he doesn't deserve me. HE knows he doesn't deserve me. He's said so. But I won't give up on this marriage until I know, without a doubt, I've tried everything and my life is going to be miserable if I don't leave. During the year of no sex (and no other affection from him), I felt worse than if I'd been alone. Living in the same house and sleeping in the same bed with someone who you desperately want to be held by and touched by and kissed by, who doesn't even glance your way, is torture and worse than being alone. If that ever happens again, I'm gone. He knows that and says it never will happen again. He's trying to do everything I ask. He's increased the affection, compliments, and initiation. But the problem is me now. I don't respond to it the way I used to because I'm so hurt. And because I think he doesn't really mean it. He'd rather be with some big-breasted porn star. I feel like he's forcing it, trying to force a display of attraction that he admits isn't very high.


That’s a problem some of us run into. Superficially, we see a change in behavior from our partner, then we realize it’s not for the reasons we had wanted. For instance, I want my wife to want to be physically intimate with me. When it happens (there have been two two year gaps, amongst many dry quarters), I can feel for a while, maybe, something has changed. But, it doesn’t take long to realize she doesn’t really want me, and most of the time she doesn’t even want to want me (say, blocked by resentment towards me or an aversion to “owe” anyone a bit of her energy). Her motivation is she doesn’t want to lose face by losing a “marriage”, lose more than half her income, or her emotional support during tough times (and these are tough times — scary illness, death in her family, job losses, …).

Knowing something “without a doubt” is an expensive luxury. Be sure that you can afford it, considering your days walking this earth are limited.

Waiting for certainty also exposes you to risk — risk of losing parts of yourself, awareness that you deserve better, and energy to leave.

And imagine giving someone your next five or ten years of relationship time and energy. At the end of your life, would you regret giving it to someone that doesn’t love you back in the way you wanted, vs spending that time with, or at least being open to finding, someone that does or make you feel genuinely desired and loved?

Even if you started moving towards separation and divorce, you might still find he redeems himself in time for you to reverse course and save your marriage.

Be careful taking advice from me, though. Some of my baggage is labeled “regret”.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Y
> 
> Yes the dribble about 20 year relationship being boring is only for some men. My husband still gets horny for me on a regular based. Still desires me and if you read this site there are plenty of 20+ year marriages with lust still going on. Guess what almost all of those men don’t use porn. I know my hubby doesn’t, Conan doesnt I don’t think BDNY does.
> 
> this is a problem with your husband.


32 years and I'm horny at the thought of her, let alone actually seeing her, lol. Porn I did, but don't anymore. It never effected my attraction for my wife, but it did mess with me in other ways. Combine that with the high risk of many ethical and criminal issues with porn and I'm done with it.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Along those same lines of wanting the wife, I agree I want mine too but I do have to say I am not without being a porn viewer. When she says "No" (which is about 50% of the time) I do watch as an alternative.

So not defending porn nor the OP's husbands as he seems to have taken it over the edge but porn in some cases is not always the cause of the problem but sometimes just a result.

If my wife said "Yes" more times, I probably wouldn't be interested in watching others have sex. And yes she knows I watch it and while she isn't into it, doesn't seem to push her to want more sex.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Along those same lines of wanting the wife, I agree I want mine too but I do have to say I am not without being a porn viewer. When she says "No" (which is about 50% of the time) I do watch as an alternative.
> 
> So not defending porn nor the OP's husbands as he seems to have taken it over the edge but porn in some cases is not always the cause of the problem but sometimes just a result.
> 
> If my wife said "Yes" more times, I probably wouldn't be interested in watching others have sex. And yes she knows I watch it and while she isn't into it, doesn't seem to push her to want more sex.


Yes, you have the common situation for husbands who watch. But in this case she wants him a lot more than he wants her. Your wife did a bait-and-switch on you so you’ll be watching as long as you’re married to her, unfortunately.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

This thread is really sad. Sorry to see your are here, OP.

I am in the same boat in my marriage. Both 30 years old and my husband has a raging porn addiction. We are both in shape and take care of ourselves - we look perfect on the outside but behind closed doors our marriage is empty. Lies constantly about porn and has no idea I can literally see it on the router history. Only apologizes if I present “evidence”. Watches in the car, at work, etc. Heavy in addiction.

Other posters hit the nail on the head. He is addicted to porn and doesn’t see you as an outlet for sexual needs. My husband wants everything but sex from me. We attempted counseling and clearly nothing has changed. Now it’s just check the box s*x, in one position, as fast as possible. You have to decide if this is the life you want to live, but I don’t think this is a normal dynamic. I agree many men watch porn but it’s bizarre to have a man frequently choose his hand over an enthusiastic wife. I personally agreed to try for the sake of our 3 year old but I suspect we will never find a happy medium. I will always be competing with his on call mistress.

Our counselor said there’s a ton of deep rooted issues outside of the porn that cause our lack of intimacy. For example, my counselor suspects he feels immaculated because I am the bread winner. It feels better to watch a stranger get overpowered on his phone rather than deal with his own insecurities. Additionally he has plenty of mommy issues due to her being a serial cheater/on drugs. These aren’t excuses but have played a role in how he views women and intimacy. 

I say all of this to try to help you understand this isn’t your fault and you can’t change him by working out, changing your hair, or spicing things up. This is on him but you are certainly within your right as a wife to want more from him. He has to choose to work on himself and fulfill his role as our sexual partner. 

My husband has tried to put himself on a schedule for “intimacy” and it has somewhat helped. It could help you two if he commits to quitting porn and trying to reignite his desire to pursue you. Sorry you are in this position. It’s a terrible feeling and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Along those same lines of wanting the wife, I agree I want mine too but I do have to say I am not without being a porn viewer. When she says "No" (which is about 50% of the time) I do watch as an alternative.
> 
> So not defending porn nor the OP's husbands as he seems to have taken it over the edge but porn in some cases is not always the cause of the problem but sometimes just a result.
> 
> If my wife said "Yes" more times, I probably wouldn't be interested in watching others have sex. And yes she knows I watch it and while she isn't into it, doesn't seem to push her to want more sex.


I get your post but you already answered your “why”. You watch porn because you are denied frequently. If your wife told you she’d always say yes if you stopped viewing I’d bet you’d take her up on that offer.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

moulinyx said:


> This thread is really sad. Sorry to see your are here, OP.
> 
> I am in the same boat in my marriage. Both 30 years old and my husband has a raging porn addiction. We are both in shape and take care of ourselves - we look perfect on the outside but behind closed doors our marriage is empty. Lies constantly about porn and has no idea I can literally see it on the router history. Only apologizes if I present “evidence”. Watches in the car, at work, etc. Heavy in addiction.
> 
> ...



Last August you were filing for divorce. What happened?


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Openminded said:


> Last August you were filing for divorce. What happened?


I don’t want to thread jack here - I will scoot on over to my thread. The short of it is I needed counseling and to feel like I have it my all. I think there’s a mourning process and mine took a while.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Melinda82 said:


> A few years ago, one of these dry spells lasted an entire year!


That would be more than enough for me to end my marriage, in fact I wouldn't even settle for that kind of nonsense for more than a month either.

One thing for sure, your husband has shown you who he is. So you would probably do well to believe him, and act accordingly.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I’ve read your post, and picked out a few things that stand out to me. More than the porn.

So he’s the guy that sends pics of women to other men right? At work? He’s the initiator? Any instances of him being the guy in the group that’s always talking about the hotties and the cuties? Let’s step outside your marriage for a minute and look at how he interacts with other males.

I’m more curious about his interactions with men, and I’ll get to that soon.

I was very saddened to read your post and have some advice: absolutely stop dressing sexy and initiating first of all. Secondly, stop feeling like you’re worthless and then also super hot too when you’re heading out. (I’ll get to this later as well)

This strange man you’re married to is making you crazy, and I’m also middle-aged, but older than you. I understand how you’ve come to this place, but going out there at our age and showing our desperation doesn’t make us look good. It’s sad and that’s a harsh truth. You WILL attract the wrong attention from men, despite how hot you proclaim you are. And you WILL also attract the scorn if the sisterhood. It is a bitter but harsh truth. Please don’t me mad at me for pointing this out because I am on your side. I am very very angry that this schoolboy has brought you to this! Remember, be a lady, always. Don’t ever let a person like this reduce you to less than. Put all that back to him. HE is the Pervy dude with a porn addiction, HE is the pervy creep in the office sending pics of hotties. You are not the desperado, so be careful if where this may take you, because this little game of his is dirty.

At some point, especially middle-age, and especially when we have kids, most people don’t act creepy and overly sexy. Women for instance: you can be attractive and gorgeous, but at some point when you have older teens and kids you know you’re not going to dress and behave a certain way for attention. No matter what’s happening at home in the bedroom. Your husband, hasn’t hit this level of discomfort where he can say, ‘these people I’m sending pictures too have daughters close to this age’. Do you see what I mean? There’s turning heads and appreciating beauty and an innate biological discomfort that comes with age. Then there are the plain old creeps. Don’t be the female equivalent, stop that now - it’s maybe what he deep down wants, just to SHOW OFF his horny hot wife to the guys, because I’m detecting some serious issues with him. Be the catch. 😉 It’s clearly him that’s the weirdo. I’m very mad that it’s come to this for you. You must be absolutely heartbroken. 😟

But please do get back to me re his interactions with men. I suspect his issue lies more with men that it does with you. Especially since he rates himself less than, and let’s face it, he is less than in more ways than one.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I wish I had an answer for you. I feel your pain. I have dealt with a full year and no sex in my past. It is an awful feeling. It definitely feels like torture. I know exactly what you mean by being alone would be a better option.
> 
> I would imagine that you have a lot of resentment built up. I do as well. It isn't easy to deal with especially since you've lost so much trust in your husband.
> 
> ...


Yes, I've already said I have a lot of anger towards my husband. I don't feel a need to get even, though, because I've been sharing my feelings with my husband regularly over the last several months. We've had many conversations where I've told him how undesirable and unloved his actions have made me feel. I've even begged him to "let me go" if he doesn't love and desire me the way I do him. 

But he really does love me--as much as he is capable of loving anyone. I think he has issues (most likely from his childhood, like someone earlier said) that keep him from showing his deepest feelings. Only rarely over the years have I seen him emotional. We've grown up together and neither can imagine life without the other. Would we be happier apart? I've asked myself that question a lot over the last year. But we both want to hold onto the other, for better or worse. I think he's trying as hard as he is capable to be the husband I want him to be. The problem is: I don't know if he is capable. If he has never been highly attracted to me, like a man should be to his wife, or if what arouses him has been screwed up by too much porn use for too many years, then it may be impossible for him to be the husband I want and need.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> That is all very admirable and would even be encouraging depending on HIS level of engagement and reciprocity.
> 
> In otherwords, it's great you are willing to work on it and find a fix, but if he doesn't uphold his end or do any heavy lifting on his part, then it's a no-go. It takes two working together to fix it, but only one with inaction to flush it.
> If he is sincere and puts in the effort, I think this can be corrected to a point. But remember he is has never been a sexual dynamo so there is good chance that even with work and effort from both of you, it may reach a point of some warmth and some consistency, but will probably never be hot, monkey sex.
> ...


I agree wholeheartedly. Sex is vital to a marriage. I will not stay in my marriage if my needs are not getting met. I also wouldn't stay in a marriage with unsatisfying sex. That's the thing, though. Sometimes he does meet my needs and he is always a wonderful lover! It's just not consistent. He runs hot and cold. I seriously think the porn, masturbation, or some mental issue is at play, causing him to be on fire for me sometimes and ignore me for weeks at other times. When he's "on fire," I couldn't ask for more in a man. I won't throw away over 20 years and break up my family just because of frequency issues. That can be compromised on, if he's willing to work on it, which he says he is. If it's more than that, like he's really not attracted to me much at all? Then I don't know if I could stay, even for the kids. Because I would be heartbroken and not able to enjoy sex at all. I'm almost there now after his admission of only average attraction to me. So I guess I need to find out exactly how much my husband is attracted to me. No amount of therapy is going to be able to make him hot for me if he just doesn't have those feeling for me.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Cynthia said:


> @Melinda82, You are not bored with your husband. If your husband is bored with you, it's because you require effort. Porn girls do not. You say he's always seemed low drive, and perhaps he is, yet, he continued to use porn rather than giving his wife his attention and affection.
> 
> From what you've said, it sounds like he only give you affection when he wants sex from you.
> 
> ...


I think you've hit the nail on the head with everything you said.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Along those same lines of wanting the wife, I agree I want mine too but I do have to say I am not without being a porn viewer. When she says "No" (which is about 50% of the time) I do watch as an alternative.
> 
> So not defending porn nor the OP's husbands as he seems to have taken it over the edge but porn in some cases is not always the cause of the problem but sometimes just a result.
> 
> If my wife said "Yes" more times, I probably wouldn't be interested in watching others have sex. And yes she knows I watch it and while she isn't into it, doesn't seem to push her to want more sex.


I've read some of your posts in other threads and feel really bad for your situation. I know what being rejected feels like. Mine was probably more than 50% of the time. After a while it gets humiliating. That's why I stopped and left it up to him. Maybe I shouldn't have. But it made me resent him when all of my initiation attempts resulted in me horny and unable to sleep and all of his resulted in him getting what he wanted.

In my case, I think the porn is at least partially the cause of the problem with my husband's low drive (unless it's a physical thing and the porn is what would cause the brief bouts of sexual enthusiasm from him?). 

With you, I understand your desire to take matters into your own hands. But is porn necessary? You say your wife knows you watch it and "isn't into it." Maybe she thinks you're just as happy using porn as being with her? If so that could either 1) Make her feel like she's not special to you, or 2) Reduce the responsibility she should be feeling to take care of your needs. Either of these would result in her not saying "yes" more often.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

moulinyx said:


> This thread is really sad. Sorry to see your are here, OP.
> 
> I am in the same boat in my marriage. Both 30 years old and my husband has a raging porn addiction. We are both in shape and take care of ourselves - we look perfect on the outside but behind closed doors our marriage is empty. Lies constantly about porn and has no idea I can literally see it on the router history. Only apologizes if I present “evidence”. Watches in the car, at work, etc. Heavy in addiction.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry for you, too. Your husband sounds worse than mine. At least mine does seem to enjoy sex with me and always tries to make me enjoy it (when he finally initiates). If yours is not only addicted to porn, but only going through the motions with sex "as fast as possible," you should GET OUT NOW. My life and marriage are stressful enough and it's hard for me to be a good mother to my children. But it's got to be even worse for you. And you're younger than me! You could easily start over with someone new. You should do all the things people on this thread have been telling me to do: ultimatum, file for divorce, etc.

On a side note: The emasculated thing makes me wonder about my husband. Is yours aroused by women overpowering men or men overpowering women? Which is supposed to be the turn-on for men who feel emasculated?


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Luckylucky said:


> I’ve read your post, and picked out a few things that stand out to me. More than the porn.
> 
> So he’s the guy that sends pics of women to other men right? At work? He’s the initiator? Any instances of him being the guy in the group that’s always talking about the hotties and the cuties? Let’s step outside your marriage for a minute and look at how he interacts with other males.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your concern, although I'm not sure what you were getting at with some of what you wrote.

Firstly, I always have been and always will be a lady. I don't behave in a manner to try to attract other men. The only man whom I flirt with and try to arouse is my husband. Taking more pride in my appearance and celebrating my long-fought for weight loss by dressing a little sexy (not like a porn star), is something I do to feel good about myself. I will continue to do it no matter what my husband's reaction to me is. I offered to change things about how I look that were things I didn't mind changing (hair, clothes, make-up). I would never turn myself into someone I'm not. 

Secondly, I don't know how my husband is with other men. All I know is he had a texting friendship with a former co-worker who was a younger, single man. They both sent "funny" captioned photos back and forth. Some were of scantily-clad women, not porn. He recently told me he's had several male co-workers who point out hot women and that it is normal among men, along with porn use.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I’m very glad to hear this! Stay you, for you. Not for him. Because whatever’s happening is really awful for you, and none of it seems to be working. I’m sorry for your situation.

I guess he’s seeking out a younger male of a similar mindset, rather than friends his own age who might find that sort of stuff a bit cringey.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

in your first post, you say you went a full year without sex.
but you also said it was because he never initiated.

why are YOU not initiating? 
Clearly, if you want sex, you will have to initiate it most of the time. if you do not...you already know what you will then get. get over whatever is stopping you from doing that!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Talker67 said:


> in your first post, you say you went a full year without sex.
> but you also said it was because he never initiated.
> 
> why are YOU not initiating?
> Clearly, if you want sex, you will have to initiate it most of the time. if you do not...you already know what you will then get. get over whatever is stopping you from doing that!


Did you read her post? What more could she do than she has already done? She isn’t the one that has something to “get over”.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

You need to ask yourself(not necessarily the OP, but anyone) why would someone knowingly want to do this? Why would they willingly choose to not engage sexually with their partner and create all this aggravation and turmoil in their lives? And also, why is this so seemingly common? And why even is it so hard to fake? I mean, is having sex with someone you are in a relationship really that much harder than going out in the yard and digging a ditch by hand? To a lot of people they would say yes, it is...

Are these people mean? Are they just flat out horrible people? Because most of them really aren't....

But let's come up with all these crazy reasonings...Porn use, over working, whatever...the rationalizations are endless...Truth is ask most people that want to have sex with one another and they could use all the porn in the world or be worked to exhaustion and it wont matter a bit...They'd still look forward to it and enjoy every minute..

Also think about this...You remember the times when you first started having sex with someone? How mind blowing it was? How you couldn't help but think about it constantly? Well...why does that feeling end?? I mean, I love a nice cheeseburger and even though I have had thousands of them over the years, that feeling I get never goes away...why does this feeling seemingly end for a lot of people??

I have my own opinions about it, but most just dismiss it as nonsense...Yet they can't explain why situations like what the OP has laid out or practically any of the other tales of woe on here, happen with such frequency...Surely there aren't that many selfish and horrible people out there, no? I don't want to derail the OP's thread...If science could only bottle that feeling you get when in a sexual relationship early, a lot of these problems wouldn't exist..


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

hamadryad said:


> ..If science could only bottle that feeling you get when in a sexual relationship early


Vodka……


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> in your first post, you say you went a full year without sex.
> but you also said it was because he never initiated.
> 
> why are YOU not initiating?
> Clearly, if you want sex, you will have to initiate it most of the time. if you do not...you already know what you will then get. get over whatever is stopping you from doing that!


I'm going to give @Melinda82 a little understanding and grace on this one based on my personal experience.

In the last several years my wife has lost a good 90+% of her libido and desire for me. We do not technically have a sexless or loveless marriage but it's nothing like it used to be.

Assuming she's not sick and in the bathroom or dead-dog exhausted from working a 14 hour day in the time of Covid, she wouldn't outright reject me if I were to initiate nicely. She would comply and technically have sex with me. 

.... But it would be a horrible experience for both of us. 

She would get some kind of scowl on her face and take a breath and say something like, "Ok but don't mess around, my show comes on in half an hour/ I have to get up early/ I need to go to the store/ The kids will be home/ I have a meeting this morning/ So And So is supposed to come over/ I might be getting diarrhea etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

And then if I was to proceed, she would lay there like a corpse and sometimes literally not even touch me or a lay a hand on me and she would be looking at the clock every couple minutes and be telling me to hurry up and focus and not be fiddling around. 

And then the very moment I finish (if I were to even continue through all of that) she would shove me away and bolt to the shower to decontaminate as if she had just fallen into a vat of a toxic waste.

That is how it would go if I were to initiate.

So basically, I have figured out that me initiating just simply doesn't produce the results either of us can find tolerable.

I have learned that if I basically go on about my normal, happy life that occasionally she will initiate. If she initiates, it is not what one would call hot monkey sex per se,, but she is at least present. She is at least engaged to one degree or another. And she doesn't make me feel like I am a rapist or something.

Now she may initiate in a week. It could be a couple weeks. It may be several weeks. But it is at least like two human beings somewhat engaged with each other.

So if this is what she is encountering and this is what she is facing when she initiates - I get it. The juice ain't worth the sqeeze. 

Maybe in the big scheme of things that is wrong and we should be trying to engage more often when we are feeling the urge,, But I swear on the bible there have been many times that when I initiated, I came away feeling dirty and disgusting and resentful and bitter and much less connected than before the encounter. And I would bet good money she felt worse about me.

So for all practical purposes, I have stopped initiating a couple years ago unless I get some kind of clear "GO!" signal from her.

If I wait until she initiates or gives me some kind of 'c'mon" signal, we at least feel human. 

So just telling her to initiate when she wants to have sex, may not produce the outcome you think it should. Some times initiating and plowing through the resistance of the LL people is not worth the effort and you can come away feeling worse after the sex than you did before.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Melinda82 said:


> I am so sorry for you, too. Your husband sounds worse than mine. At least mine does seem to enjoy sex with me and always tries to make me enjoy it (when he finally initiates). If yours is not only addicted to porn, but only going through the motions with sex "as fast as possible," you should GET OUT NOW. My life and marriage are stressful enough and it's hard for me to be a good mother to my children. But it's got to be even worse for you. And you're younger than me! You could easily start over with someone new. You should do all the things people on this thread have been telling me to do: ultimatum, file for divorce, etc.
> 
> On a side note: The emasculated thing makes me wonder about my husband. Is yours aroused by women overpowering men or men overpowering women? Which is supposed to be the turn-on for men who feel emasculated?


I hear you! I personally wasn’t ready to take the leap but I have continued IC and focused on myself this last year to ensure I am positioned the way I need to be. It’s easier said than done when a child is involved. I think my main reason I haven’t moved on is the guilt I feel for our son. It isn’t fair to him at all.

But about the sexual stuff, he is absolutely turned on by porn that degrades and overpowers women. I fully believe he struggles with Madonna complex - I will never fulfill his real sexual desires. So even if he abstains from porn it doesn’t take away his issues with how he sees me and his views on sex. I don’t think he will ever be able to connect in that way.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

So there's a lot of different thoughts that I have. And this is probably as good of a place as any to unload it. 

Some people can't handle porn. Likely they ha an addictive personality disorder and they'd have the same bonding over drugs, alcohol, gambling, fitness, shopping, working... list goes on but bottom line they can't control it without professional outside help.

Some people are good with single use, occasional drink at a social gathering, occasional slot machine on a weekend Vegas trip, occasional viewing of porn as an individual or even a couple (not suggesting just pointing out some have done that). To them whatever the medium it's a release valve of sorts.

And some people abstain entirely. They went down that path. They clawed their way out (with or without help) and there's no desire to go near it again.

Porn is a broad category but it's very personal. In a way it's like going to the zoo. 100's of different animals, one big place, do they hit the reptile house or the tigers or gorillas or elephants... My point is there's probably a specific category or categories he's browsing. There may even be sub categories... redhead giving oral... and if you're not a redhead and you're not into giving oral then there's embarrassment, hurt feelings, confusion (not making this personal it's just an example). I've known guys to insist all sex toys be smaller in size and certain skin tones so believe me my comment, while sparking insecurity, cuts both ways. A sex therapist would be able to determine "hey you're really into X, she's really into Y, have the two of you ever considered Z?"

The 3 strategies I presented you with will take you 3 different directions. Sex addiction therapy will strictly abstain (mantra being it can't be controlled). Marriage counseling will attempt to minimize it, make it less and less as more focus is placed on the spouse. Sex Therapist will likely attempt to channel that energy into a sexual experience that both partners are interested in.

In my specific case I am not a porn addict. I used a recommendation from a marriage counselor to a sex therapist. From there I was directed to "how to" videos that encouraged delivering better oral to my wife. That in turn led to blogs from actresses, and specific lesbian scenes. I'm not lesbian and porn is fake but sometimes people are really attracted to each other and the end result is a heightened performance... that's where the blogs came in. NOW there's a ton of crap out there. It took a lot of control-f and search filters to find what I was after. I was also very honest with my wife. If I walk into the bedroom with a new skill set it'd leave questions. Why did I do all this? I love my wife and she has difficulty expressing her desires or directing me in the bedroom. I now translate her difficulty walking as a successful interaction!

I also didn't find TAM through a rocky marriage. I found it while searching for specific marriage strategies to improve communication in a marriage. We're good at communicating, I'm of the mindset to always try to improve.

The question you'll have to answer both as individuals and as a couple is what do you want to do? Abstain? Minimize? Redirect? or some combination. I highly doubt simply replacing porn with you is a viable solution. It leads you to feeling used and doesn't alter his behavior. Simply telling him to stop is akin to telling an alcoholic to stop or a drug user to stop. Often they can't, they need outside intervention.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

moulinyx said:


> But about the sexual stuff, he is absolutely turned on by porn that degrades and overpowers women. I fully believe he struggles with Madonna complex - I will never fulfill his real sexual desires. So even if he abstains from porn it doesn’t take away his issues with how he sees me and his views on sex. I don’t think he will ever be able to connect in that way.


 Minor thread jack. I'm curious if there were any red flags indicating this pre-marriage or if this developed through continued porn use? There's a lot of data showing how porn itself has trended into more degrading/overpowering. The theory behind it is that porn is a reflection of the specific era it's produced in. 80's had the big blond bimbos and so on. Often porn is an exaggerated version of advertising at that time.

But this is different. This is a level of disrespect and degradation not seen in public view. It is happening, the question sociologists are asking is why. It always ends up being chicken vs egg... did society direct porn to evolve in that manner or did porn direct society to tread that dangerous dark path of power struggles?

Either way I'm sorry your husband is into that, sorry you're in a position where you feel you have to maintain IC and sorry for the threadjack.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> Did you read her post? What more could she do than she has already done? She isn’t the one that has something to “get over”.


yes i read about them, all 8 pages. but they did not answer my fundamental question.

she could walk into the room and say "i am horny, lets get laid....now!", and walk over and turn off the TV (preferrably while wearing high heels and lingerie).

this is not rocket science. you do not tip toe around it, like you are walking on egg shells. if you are horny, you grab onto him and go for a ride!

if you are not willing to put in at least that much effort, you really can not be complaining about the lack of sex.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> yes i read about them, all 8 pages. but they did not answer my fundamental question.
> 
> she could walk into the room and say "i am horny, lets get laid....now!", and walk over and turn off the TV (preferrably while wearing high heels and lingerie).
> 
> ...



And if he says no????




Melinda82 said:


> I used to try to initiate, but if he is not already in the mood, he rarely agrees. He's "too tired," his "stomach hurts," or he's "just not thinking about it right now." Even if he does agree, the sex is never as good as it is when he initiates. (However, I never tell him no and enjoy sex just as much if he is the one to put me in the mood.) So I've learned to wait for the mood to strike him. I've put up with it, believing he was just a lower-drive person than me. However, I have had many conversations with him over the years, particularly because when he's not "in the mood," he also doesn't show me much other physical affection (hugging, kissing, touching), leaving me feeling completely neglected, unloved, and undesirable.
> 
> 
> I tried everything in my power to bring my husband's sexual focus back on to me. Several times, I've offered to fulfill (almost) any desire he's gotten from watching porn. But he doesn't seem to have any. I also tried harder to be more attractive. I'd already lost weight and gotten back to my pre-marital, healthy BMI weight. But my thinner body hadn't improved his desire for me. So I bought snugger, sexier clothes and lacy bras and panties, and even took pictures of myself in them (something I'd never done before), so he would have something acceptable to look at if he wanted to get aroused and/or masturbate when I'm not around.
> ...



And I guess you missed the part where she said this in her OP.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> yes i read about them, all 8 pages. but they did not answer my fundamental question.
> 
> she could walk into the room and say "i am horny, lets get laid....now!", and walk over and turn off the TV (preferrably while wearing high heels and lingerie).
> 
> ...


What do you do when THIS doesn't work??? What is your advice then...??

What I bolded in your post shows me that you have (as usual) NO IDEA what being in a sexless marriage is like, and you have no empathy for the people who are in them.

I won't write my EX's response to what "effort" you said I should be willing to put in, because it would make my heart shrivel back up like a raisin, and you probably wouldn't believe me...but trust me when I tell you, he made me feel like a worthless piece of trash when I tried what you said. And I am going to be afraid to initiate with my next partner because of how bad he made me feel as a sexual being.

So please think about that when you are giving your advice.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> yes i read about them, all 8 pages. but they did not answer my fundamental question.
> 
> she could walk into the room and say "i am horny, lets get laid....now!", and walk over and turn off the TV (preferrably while wearing high heels and lingerie).
> 
> ...


I think she's put in plenty of effort and at this specific point professional intervention and help are needed. I think dressing up, or trying new things may help BUT there's a realistic fear of rejection or projection of porn desires and allusions onto her. Professional sessions would likely yield better advice.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

crashdawg said:


> I think she's put in plenty of effort and at this specific point professional intervention and help are needed. *I think dressing up, or trying new things may help* BUT there's a realistic fear of rejection or projection of porn desires and allusions onto her. Professional sessions would likely yield better advice.


I can guarantee you it WILL NOT help at all. His problem isn't that he's bored with her...it goes much deeper.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> trust me when I tell you, he made me feel like a worthless piece of trash when I tried what you said. And I am going to be afraid to initiate with my next partner because of how bad he made me feel as a sexual being.
> 
> So please think about that when you are giving your advice.


 I am so sorry that happened to you. I've seen plenty of good and bad advice on here. Initiating sex is really putting yourself out there and people can be so cruel. Hopefully you find a partner that honestly appreciates you. I know it's difficult but please try to leave that horrific trauma with your ex. Don't let the ex continue to pollute new adventures!


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> I can guarantee you it WILL NOT help at all. His problem isn't that he's bored with her...it goes much deeper.


It's likely a combination of things and boredom may or may not factor into it. I think dressing up is too risky for multiple reasons and even if it initiates sex, she'll be hurt and he won't change... bottom line this should be addressed by professionals if possible (may or may not be in the budget).


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

crashdawg said:


> I am so sorry that happened to you. I've seen plenty of good and bad advice on here. Initiating sex is really putting yourself out there and people can be so cruel. Hopefully you find a partner that honestly appreciates you. I know it's difficult but please try to leave that horrific trauma with your ex. Don't let the ex continue to pollute new adventures!


Thank you, I am doing fine. 

But I only bring it up to share my experiences in this situation, and what I learned after YEARS of searching for any solution and finding nothing...and hopefully I can help someone.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

crashdawg said:


> It's likely a combination of things and boredom may or may not factor into it. I think dressing up is too risky for multiple reasons and even if it initiates sex, she'll be hurt and he won't change... bottom line this should be addressed by professionals if possible (may or may not be in the budget).


The problem is a lot of the conventional wisdom recommendations that are out there for people having issues in the bedroom are often predicated on the assumption that there is a fundamentally good foundation of love, affection, respect, compassion and basic attraction and a healthy, functioning sex drive and libido. 

When those things are intact, the "Grandmother Advice" of date nights, walks on the beach, candlelight and massage oil and things like lingerie, heels, role playing, toys etc etc can be helpful and can spark things up for a bit. 

But people that go months or especially a year or more and even have trouble with things like holding hands, cuddling, smooching etc etc, that goes into the realm of actual relationship pathology and/or loss/lack of basic physical attraction. 

Doing the conventional wisdom tactics of date nights and lingerie etc actually causes more stress and anxiety on both parties and actually makes it WORSE. 

Both parties will feel threatened and have heightened stress and anxiety and feel even more awkward and unnatural.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Doing the conventional wisdom tactics of date nights and lingerie etc actually causes more stress and anxiety on both parties and actually makes it WORSE.
> 
> Both parties will feel threatened and have heightened stress and anxiety and feel even more awkward and unnatural.


I will use the analogy of fire extinguishers.

Each fire extinguisher is labeled for which type of fire it is to be used for and if it is used on a fire of a different nature, it can actually spread and increase the fire or harm the user. 

If a fire extinguisher meant to be used for a wood/paper/cloth fire is used on a burning liquid fire, it will not only not put out the fire, but it will spread it. 

If water extinguisher is used on an electrical fire, there is risk of electrocuting the user or others nearby. 

The same principles apply here, for some couples, getting away from kids and bills and job stresses for a night of dining and dancing and coming home to some candlelight and massage oil is just the ticket and can snap them out of their funk for a night. 

But for couples where there are fundamental issues in the foundation of their relationship or have a lack of actual attraction and desire for their partner - it's just an added stressor and source of increased anxiety and potentially even anger, resentment and bitterness. 

My opinion on this particular couple is that they need actual marital counseling and sex therapy and even that may not fix it. 
Heels and lingerie are going to be like spraying the gasoline fire with water and is just going to spread the flames and make the situation worse.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Doing the conventional wisdom tactics of date nights and lingerie etc actually causes more stress and anxiety on both parties and actually makes it WORSE.
> 
> Both parties will feel threatened and have heightened stress and anxiety and feel even more awkward and unnatural.


 Or in this specific case she's left with either rejection, lowered expectations of pleasure, or the unknown mental torture of wondering if the encounter was him projecting someone else onto her while he's having sex.

He needs professional help. She needs the support of others.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Even under ideal conditions, having a long lasting and rewarding sex life is very......_and I mean very_ ...hard.....

Even if you polled the people who still have sex after many decades of marriage, I would be willing to bet that more than half are doing it because they feel it's their duty, or they want to keep the peace...Even just the aspect of "familiarity" and routine will do a number on a person's desire for another...

I don't have a solution that's easy, but about the only advice I give to people is that if you value that aspect in your life, you better pay very close attention when in the early stages...


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

hamadryad said:


> Even under ideal conditions, having a long lasting and rewarding sex life is very......_and I mean very_ ...hard.....
> 
> Even if you polled the people who still have sex after many decades of marriage, I would be willing to bet that more than half are doing it because they feel it's their duty, or they want to keep the peace...Even just the aspect of "familiarity" and routine will do a number on a person's desire for another...
> 
> I don't have a solution that's easy, but about the only advice I give to people is that if you value that aspect in your life, you better pay very close attention when in the early stages...


I really don't think this is true. We have several 20+ year marriages on here that are still having passionate sex including me. 28years and we had sex 3 times today. Sure my hubby may have done the 3rd just for me but the first two he enjoyed and looks forward to sex as do I.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

crashdawg said:


> He needs professional help. She needs the support of others.


I think they need professional help as a couple. 

And they may each benefit from some IC as well. 

He has his issues of course, but some IC may be of benefit for her as well to help her identify what her priorities and risks and benefits would be and identify her true motives and objectives and deal breakers and learn constructive ways to communicate all of that and establish and enforce boundaries etc etc. 

"Support of others" can be a bit of a double edged sword, especially for women today. 

Support from peers and friends and family can be critical and valuable. But as we can all see here on TAM, it can also be a place where people project their own baggage and their own agendas as well. 

Everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt. 

The reason I said "especially for women" is that for whatever reason, support for women tends to be a little more agenda and socially/politically driven. 

A few decades ago, if a woman showed up on her family's doorstep with a black eye and swollen lip, she was often told she needed to be not as argumentative and nicer and that she had made vows for better or for worse and sent back to patch things up. 

Today that pendulum has kind of swung the other way and there is a lot of "You go Girl!" and "What have you done for me lately?" mentality where if some guy isn't bending over backwards to please her every whim or if he takes a peek at some boobie pictures, he is to be kicked to the curb and Kevin From Sales or that cute guy at the bar giving her the nod will surely be a better match for her. 

Neither approach is necessarily the best answer. 

I think the best answer for her resides within her. She might need a little professional assistance in navigating through all the smoke and mirrors to arrive at that answer.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Nothing like "Two nudies getting it on" spoken with a slight Canadian accent.

That's Mrs. Conan's description of porn.

Carry on....🙂


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Even under ideal conditions, having a long lasting and rewarding sex life is very......_and I mean very_ ...hard.....
> 
> Even if you polled the people who still have sex after many decades of marriage, I would be willing to bet that more than half are doing it because they feel it's their duty, or they want to keep the peace...Even just the aspect of "familiarity" and routine will do a number on a person's desire for another...
> 
> I don't have a solution that's easy, but about the only advice I give to people is that if you value that aspect in your life, you better pay very close attention when in the early stages...


I'm not so sure. That isn't the case with us, and I know several friends in long term marriages and at least appear very affectionate with each other. Of course I have no idea what goes on in the bedroom. I wonder how rare that actually is.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm not so sure. That isn't the case with us, and I know several friends in long term marriages and at least appear very affectionate with each other. Of course I have no idea what goes on in the bedroom. I wonder how rare that actually is.


I thought I recall that you mentioned that you had some bedroom issues that were "worked out"?? Forgive me if I am mistaken, buddy..

I can only draw upon my own experiences....Most of my male friends who are in long term marriages, are living in what anyone can call "sexless marriages" and have been for years...Some by choice on both parties, some are getting it on the side, some don't care, maybe they have performance issues, whatever..."she's too fat and sloppy and wont even undress in front of me. , she's a pain in the ass, she has no interest," the stories are endless...The only guys I know who are reporting active and healthy sex lives are the recently divorced ones making the rounds on the internet dating sites...One guy in particular slept with, I think 20 women over the course of a year. .Even one's that think they are in healthy sex marriages or LTRs they only know what they think, they really don't know what their partner thinks....or feels...people(particularly women because its easier for them) fake it...

Just look at what is the most common problems reported on this site...Whether or not the person is actually cheating, in most of these stories someone isn't getting laid....and its creating problems..

I just don't think it was ever in the cards for humans to have sex with one person for life...or even decades at a time...Its not something that practically any other species does.. For many reasons...So, while it isn't impossible, it takes careful attention to compatibility in this area(that most people never consider). a lot of work, maybe some luck,whatever,....Im not looking to be the wet blanket here, but no one can dispute that these issues are far more common than just bad luck or abuse of porn...


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

hamadryad said:


> I thought I recall that you mentioned that you had some bedroom issues that were "worked out"?? Forgive me if I am mistaken, buddy..
> 
> I can only draw upon my own experiences....Most of my male friends who are in long term marriages, are living in what anyone can call "sexless marriages" and have been for years...Some by choice on both parties, some are getting it on the side, some don't care, maybe they have performance issues, whatever..."she's too fat and sloppy and wont even undress in front of me. , she's a pain in the ass, she has no interest," the stories are endless...The only guys I know who are reporting active and healthy sex lives are the recently divorced ones making the rounds on the internet dating sites...One guy in particular slept with, I think 20 women over the course of a year. .Even one's that think they are in healthy sex marriages or LTRs they only know what they think, they really don't know what their partner thinks....or feels...people(particularly women because its easier for them) fake it...
> 
> ...


I think drawing from personal experience and posts on TAM is incredibly limited and likely skewed. National data per country would likely be more beneficial in that conversation.

As to my own experience, 20+ years and going strong. Like any good relationship it requires constant upkeep and improvement by both partners. We don't need to tell each other when we've reached some magic level of bliss, there's physical indicators that make it fairly obvious (and in some cases difficult to walk). All of that said, our relationship is balanced. Not all sex, not all dates and cuddling. But again that our dynamic.

I had a friend constantly complain about lack of oral. He was completely against giving her oral but would then complain about not getting it. I stopped hanging out because it got old fast, didn't want to hear it, really depressing. I asked once if he told his wife... 5 minutes of excuses... Bottom line why are your friends are telling you about bedroom issues? shouldn't that be between the couple or with a marriage counselor? Like I get the support system but if it's not working get professional help!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> I thought I recall that you mentioned that you had some bedroom issues that were "worked out"?? Forgive me if I am mistaken, buddy..
> 
> I can only draw upon my own experiences....Most of my male friends who are in long term marriages, are living in what anyone can call "sexless marriages" and have been for years...Some by choice on both parties, some are getting it on the side, some don't care, maybe they have performance issues, whatever..."she's too fat and sloppy and wont even undress in front of me. , she's a pain in the ass, she has no interest," the stories are endless...The only guys I know who are reporting active and healthy sex lives are the recently divorced ones making the rounds on the internet dating sites...One guy in particular slept with, I think 20 women over the course of a year. .Even one's that think they are in healthy sex marriages or LTRs they only know what they think, they really don't know what their partner thinks....or feels...people(particularly women because its easier for them) fake it...
> 
> ...


Yes and no on bedroom issues. Our sex life has always been good. I know frequency doesn't tell the whole story, but we have never fallen below having sex an average of a couple times a week. There was a point where my wife was having medical issues. It caused multiple problems for her, including pain and other things that would interfere with good sex. She was reluctant to do what she needed to do. Since all the other quality of life issues she was experiencing weren't motivating her to get the medical help she needed I told her that I didn't want to be in a sexless marriage if it could be safely a avoided. I went with her to every procedure and every Dr visit. It is pretty awkward sitting in the gyno exam room with your wife, lol. I saw her threw it and everything is as good or better than ever. It took about a year and a half to address everything. 

One thing that was important in my mind, is even when sex wasn't possible we stayed very affectionate, close and intimate with each other. We stayed very connected even during stretches of time where sex wasn't an option.

I don't really know what goes on in my wife's head, but based on how she performs in bed, that she does initiate from time to time and she has outright said sex is important to her, I think she is really into it.

As for the other couples, I know even less of what their thoughts really are. I do know one or two where the spark just doesn't seem to be there anymore, but also seem happy together. I have never heard any of my friends say they don't get or don't want sex on the regular. I don't know of anyone getting it on the side either, but if I did I don't think I would hang around with them anymore. 

I think you could be right that it isn't the natural state of things for humans to be life long monogamous. However, we are unique beings with unique abilities not found elsewhere in nature. We have the ability to control our instinctive urges. We also have the intelligence to avoid situations that will make resisting those urges difficult. I also think we have the ability to stay turned on by our long term partners if we chose to.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think you could be right that it isn't the natural state of things for humans to be life long monogamous. However, we are unique beings with unique abilities not found elsewhere in nature. We have the ability to control our instinctive urges. We also have the intelligence to avoid situations that will make resisting those urges difficult. I also think we have the ability to stay turned on by our long term partners if we chose to.


 There's other examples of mating for life in the animal kingdom, and also other examples of sex purely for pleasure.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

I know it's weird to say this but normally when I heard complaints, or read complaints, someone is usually being selfish. Don't get me wrong. I'm not against the occasional "just because" toe curling orgasm... but the "secret" is making sure your partner is beyond satisfied. Not minimum, not, it's ok, actually taking the time to meet their needs physically and emotionally, and enjoying when you help them reach that level. There's times she goes. There's times I go. There's times we both go. There's no score and no pressure or expectation beyond the challenge of doing everything you can to get your partner "there". We're both Aries. The description of Aries/Aries fits us. Again that's our dynamic. That's what we wanted, and that's what we maintain.

A lot of the complaints I've heard are complaints about what they didn't get, or complaints about a partner who is selfish and doesn't give back. It's a HUGE risk, but I try to just give, just be in that moment, and trust that my partner is doing her best. Like I said, sometimes you get ambushed and rocked and that's awesome BUT for us there's normally give and take.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> Even under ideal conditions, having a long lasting and rewarding sex life is very......_and I mean very_ ...hard.....
> 
> Even if you polled the people who still have sex after many decades of marriage, I would be willing to bet that more than half are doing it because they feel it's their duty, or they want to keep the peace...Even just the aspect of "familiarity" and routine will do a number on a person's desire for another...
> 
> I don't have a solution that's easy, but about the only advice I give to people is that if you value that aspect in your life, you better pay very close attention when in the early stages...


I agree as many of the guys I know complain about their sex lives and they have all been married long term.

However, the one guy is an exception. He and his wife work at making things exciting. She is hot and they go dancing with her wearing very sexy and revealing clothing and stuff like that. They go to nude beaches and adult resorts. They aren't swingers but do things to make things sexy and set the mood. 

He doesn't really talk about their sex life but they post pics of themselves on FB when they go places like on their boat with his wife in a bikini and he talks about their vacations and stuff so you get the idea. Both are in great shape, he has a great job and they are in their late 50s.

I think the point is both partners have to WANT to make it exciting and fun. I think that's where most marriages fail as both partners are not into it for the long term.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I'm going to give @Melinda82 a little understanding and grace on this one based on my personal experience.
> 
> In the last several years my wife has lost a good 90+% of her libido and desire for me. We do not technically have a sexless or loveless marriage but it's nothing like it used to be.
> 
> ...


Exactly! Now imagine the low-drive person who wasn't in the mood to begin with is a man. It's sometimes not even physically possible to have sex! A woman might can just "go along with" sex when she's not really in the mood, but a man HAS to get in the mood for sex to even happen!

Also, I'm very sorry your wife is that way. I have NEVER behaved that way when my husband has initiated and I wasn't in the mood. I not only go along with it, I get in the mood quickly, and enjoy and participate in it EVERY TIME.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> I not only go along with it, I get in the mood quickly, and enjoy and participate in it EVERY TIME.


Same. Even if I’m not in the mood when we start I rev up pretty quickly.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> Exactly! Now imagine the low-drive person who wasn't in the mood to begin with is a man. It's sometimes not even physically possible to have sex! A woman might can just "go along with" sex when she's not really in the mood, but a man HAS to get in the mood for sex to even happen!


 No one should ever have to just go along with it. There's plenty of other things that can be done to cause an erection (barring physical impossibility due ED) but again... no one should ever have to just go along with it.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

I had another talk with my husband today. 

He still swears he's stopped on the porn. Again he said it was never a constant thing he did and only sometimes led to masturbation and only sometimes led to him coming to me for sex. Sometimes he says it "did nothing for him." I told him he needs to always come to me instead of porn and I will do anything he wants. Like when I've offered before, this really turned him on, although he didn't have any ideas. 

He feels bad for the "5, 6, or 7" and average attractiveness comments. He says for a few days afterwards he thought about it and realized I'm more attractive than that and more attractive than him. Do I believe him or do I think he's just trying to keep the peace? I don't know. If I want to be happy I'm going to have to try to believe him.

I also negotiated a sex deal with my husband. I asked him and he said his ideal amount of sex is once a week or 2 times at the most. My ideal is 4 times a week or every day at the most. I asked if he wanted to try a compromise on 3 times a week and he said let's try 4. Each of us got assigned one weekend day to initiate and must also initiate once sometime during the week. No refusals. We'll see how it goes. It's only the first day, but so far, it's going well.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I haven't read the 11 pages however it's incredibly difficult for a man to go a year without sex so I'm certain he is like most men and was masturbating regularly. I'd think the porn has probably damaged his brain pretty severely but if he did come clean off the porn I think he'd really start to appreciate you and your beauty again. I mean, if you were watching younger men in porn every day yourself you'd probably start to think of your hubby as a "5 or 6" too. The lies of porn are hard to shake off... Porn makes men finicky. So sorry what you're going through, sister.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

CatholicDad said:


> I haven't read the 11 pages however it's incredibly difficult for a man to go a year without sex so I'm certain he is like most men and was masturbating regularly. I'd think the porn has probably damaged his brain pretty severely but if he did come clean off the porn I think he'd really start to appreciate you and your beauty again. I mean, if you were watching younger men in porn every day yourself you'd probably start to think of your hubby as a "5 or 6" too. The lies of porn are hard to shake off... Porn makes men finicky. So sorry what you're going through, sister.


That's what I said to my husband during one of our conversations months ago after finding out. He told me he didn't compare me to the women he's seen in porn. I told him he might not have consciously. But his view is going to be changed by so much time looking at them. I told him if I was looking at pictures of younger, more muscular, etc. men all the time, I probably wouldn't think he's so attractive. But I have no desire to look at some hot guy who I can't touch or kiss or make love to. I want a REAL man!


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## Northern.Guy (10 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> Your wife is lucky you've done such a turn-around. Is there anything you could recommend for my husband or me to do?


@Melinda82
The best advice I can think of for you, don’t bury the issue. I never realized how badly I hurt my wife. I confessed it to her several weeks, maybe months after stopping porn. She didn’t catch me. I had a life changing spiritual experience and I made a lot of changes for the better in my life. I thought all was well after my confession, and it wasn’t. She bottled it up and a decade went by. Communication is key. I hope he is able to empathize and know what it feels like for you. My wife is not quick to share her feelings. I hope your husband realizes by now that porn sucks. He probably has a hard time climaxing with you because porn has messed with his head. He needs to retrain his brain. If you believe in God, pray together. This has been helpful for us and also helps us bond. He is lucky to have you, and I hope he realizes it really soon. In my marriage, 2 years into working through issues and many sexual activities are still off the table because my wife is triggered with memories about how I treated her in the past and she sometimes thought I wanted to do something because I saw it in porn. I don’t grieve that I cannot experience these things with her, I grieve what I took from her. I want her to know what it’s like to have a husband who delights in her apart from what she does / doesn’t do. By the way, we have been together since high school as well.. 31 years since that first date.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Hubby has been breaking his marital vows via porn for years. He needs to give up all private access to computers/tablets and turn his phone in for a flip phone (no internet). If he’s not willing to do that… seems like there isn’t much of a marriage left to save.

I really don’t understand how guys can think this is ok. I certainly didn’t marry my wife with the intent of sharing her with other men! When the heck did porn use become a “normal” part of marriage??? At the rate we’re headed all out adultery will be considered “normal” in another couple decades… feel sorry for my children and future grandchildren.


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## Northern.Guy (10 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> Your wife is lucky you've done such a turn-around. Is there anything you could recommend for my husband or me to do?


As others have said, you have done so much. It is him that needs to do the work. I hope the attraction problem is related to porn use and his eyes are opened soon.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> When the heck did porn use become a “normal” part of marriage???


From about circa 1880 onwards, with the massive explosion of extremely popular, mass produced, mass circulation pornographic postcards being distributed widely.

Seriously mass market smut was rampant throughout the Western world, long before the internet was invented.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Personal said:


> From about circa 1880 onwards, with the massive explosion of extremely popular, mass produced, mass circulation pornographic postcards being distributed widely.
> 
> Seriously mass market smut was rampant throughout the Western world, long before the internet was invented.


You've never seen a Renaissance painting?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> You've never seen a Renaissance painting?


They weren't mass distribution, and one can go much further back than that. Anyway although the invention of the printing press saw the first explosion of mass produced smut, none of that rivalled the sheer magnitude of the postcard porn industry.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Northern.Guy said:


> @Melinda82
> The best advice I can think of for you, don’t bury the issue. I never realized how badly I hurt my wife. I confessed it to her several weeks, maybe months after stopping porn. She didn’t catch me. I had a life changing spiritual experience and I made a lot of changes for the better in my life. I thought all was well after my confession, and it wasn’t. She bottled it up and a decade went by. Communication is key. I hope he is able to empathize and know what it feels like for you. My wife is not quick to share her feelings. I hope your husband realizes by now that porn sucks. He probably has a hard time climaxing with you because porn has messed with his head. He needs to retrain his brain. If you believe in God, pray together. This has been helpful for us and also helps us bond. He is lucky to have you, and I hope he realizes it really soon. In my marriage, 2 years into working through issues and many sexual activities are still off the table because my wife is triggered with memories about how I treated her in the past and she sometimes thought I wanted to do something because I saw it in porn. I don’t grieve that I cannot experience these things with her, I grieve what I took from her. I want her to know what it’s like to have a husband who delights in her apart from what she does / doesn’t do. By the way, we have been together since high school as well.. 31 years since that first date.


Thank you for the excellent advice and sharing your story. I don't have any trouble sharing my feelings with my husband. He doesn't share as much in general. But he has shown a lot of empathy (even on the verge of tears a couple times) over the past several months, telling me that something I've shared about how this makes me feel, has really stuck with him and made him think. I hope he never forgets and continues to fight any urges to watch porn. You should be very proud of yourself for turning your life around and devoting yourself to your wife.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> Thank you for the excellent advice and sharing your story. I don't have any trouble sharing my feelings with my husband. He doesn't share as much in general. But he has shown a lot of empathy (even on the verge of tears a couple times) over the past several months, telling me that something I've shared about how this makes me feel, has really stuck with him and made him think. I hope he never forgets and continues to fight any urges to watch porn. You should be very proud of yourself for turning your life around and devoting yourself to your wife.


Prayers and hopes and magic words are a solid start but get him into a porn addict program. The behaviours you described indicate he can't manage this on his own. He may "want" to be better but he'll likely need support to do it. Churches often have AA, NA, SA... different groups, same goal of managing their specific addiction through group support. Do some research, get him in a program.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Forcing a guy to give up porn and jerking himself off, when he knows he could have sex with his wife anytime he wants, is the equivalent of forcing a guy who doesn't like onions to eat nothing but onion soup...He'll eventually eat the soup rather than starve to death, but it probably won't be satisfying or even desirable...

I think what would be interesting is to hear from people who have "given up" on sex with their partners...My guess is that almost none of them would say that they all of a sudden would do a 180 and miraculously see their partner as a sexual option...

It all goes back to the same thing as mentioned previously....What's the end game? Would anyone really be happy that in order for someone to fck you(something that they should be doing eagerly and without reservation or condition), you basically had to put a gun to their head? Is that enough to make it all good?? Sad to read that for some people, it IS actually enough.,...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> I think what would be interesting is to hear from people who have "given up" on sex with their partners...My guess is that almost none of them would say that they all of a sudden would do a 180 and miraculously see their partner as a sexual option...


r/LowLibidoCommunity


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> Forcing a guy to give up porn and jerking himself off, when he knows he could have sex with his wife anytime he wants, is the equivalent of forcing a guy who doesn't like onions to eat nothing but onion soup...He'll eventually eat the soup rather than starve to death, but it probably won't be satisfying or even desirable...
> 
> I think what would be interesting is to hear from people who have "given up" on sex with their partners...My guess is that almost none of them would say that they all of a sudden would do a 180 and miraculously see their partner as a sexual option...
> 
> It all goes back to the same thing as mentioned previously....What's the end game? Would anyone really be happy that in order for someone to fck you(something that they should be doing eagerly and without reservation or condition), you basically had to put a gun to their head? Is that enough to make it all good?? Sad to read that for some people, it IS actually enough.,...


It’s a pitfall many don’t realize exists. But, it’s also possible that acquainting someone with the hurt they have caused and boundaries that will be enforced is enough to re-evaluate harmful behaviors, stop them, and be open to happily move forward in compatible ways.

IME, if a spouse “changes” for reasons neither wanted, eg fakes an increased level of desire, that will eventually be felt and inescapable. (Of course, that’s just one data point, one I am blindingly close to.)

What is advantageous then is action to detach and move on, rather than attempts to look the other way, and maybe that is easier to do knowing you gave it a serious try.

But, if one hasn’t yet risked that time, it seems legitimate to set a goal and try to reach it together. Keep eyes open, be alert to false victories, limit time.

None of us have perfect knowledge of how things will play out. Best we can do is not fool ourselves that we do, either way.

ETA: There are success stories, with desire level differences in general and some including porn. The failures, and many possible failure modes, are not reasons to not bother trying.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> It’s a pitfall many don’t realize exists. But, it’s also possible that acquainting someone with the hurt they have caused and boundaries that will be enforced is enough to re-evaluate harmful behaviors, stop them, and be open to happily move forward in compatible ways.


His behavior would have been much easier to address and possibly correct 18 or 19 years ago than now. At this point, it is so ingrained as to be part of who he is. Frankly, I don't foresee him making strides in being a genuinely affectionate husband. It seems people either are or they aren't. He'll just be kicking the can down the road.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

PieceOfSky said:


> It’s a pitfall many don’t realize exists. But, it’s also possible that acquainting someone with the hurt they have caused and boundaries that will be enforced is enough to re-evaluate harmful behaviors, stop them, and be open to happily move forward in compatible ways.
> 
> IME, if a spouse “changes” for reasons neither wanted, eg fakes an increased level of desire, that will eventually be felt and inescapable. (Of course, that’s just one data point, one I am blindingly close to.)
> 
> ...


While I'm included to agree, when a habit grows beyond occasional recreational use to compulsion it generally indicates an inability of the individual to escape their habit. I'm aware of couples with mismatched sex drives and opposite cycles. Porn is used as a release valve to "keep the peace" until both are in the mood and ready. They schedule sex so anything outside of that is porn. Not my dynamic but I'm aware of it.

I'm also aware of strict anti-porn couples because of bad past experiences (some of which are reflected here in this thread). Often they left partners who either couldn't kick the habit, or kicking the habit didn't alter course. I knew someone with a bad Asian porn habit, his wife was a white BBW. They're divorced now... the porn unlocked the reality of their sexual incompatibility. I still scratch my head at that one. 

Porn is incredibly private and often very specific. It's not just "he's jerking off" it's a specific focus on what he's into. If the partner is that type, or into those positions, then there's hope (still dangers of projection but at least you're in that attractive focus). If their attraction isn't a close proxy for the partner then often there's no hope. Knowing the specific porn they are into becomes a double edged sword. It can often solidify resolve to try to help, or end the relationship on the spot.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> It’s a pitfall many don’t realize exists. But, it’s also possible that acquainting someone with the hurt they have caused and boundaries that will be enforced is enough to re-evaluate harmful behaviors, stop them, and be open to happily move forward in compatible ways.
> 
> IME, if a spouse “changes” for reasons neither wanted, eg fakes an increased level of desire, that will eventually be felt and inescapable. (Of course, that’s just one data point, one I am blindingly close to.)
> 
> ...


If @Melinda82 's husband is really committed and willing to do the work, their marriage will improve.

He is at least talking, compromising and working with her on it. Many couples can't get even that start.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> His behavior would have been much easier to address and possibly correct 18 or 19 years ago than now. At this point, it is so ingrained as to be part of who he is. Frankly, I don't foresee him making strides in being a genuinely affectionate husband. It seems people either are or they aren't. He'll just be kicking the can down the road.


I think he’s worried about losing his wife appliance. I think we call it “hopium,” right?


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

PieceOfSky said:


> It’s a pitfall many don’t realize exists. But, it’s also possible that acquainting someone with the hurt they have caused and boundaries that will be enforced is enough to re-evaluate harmful behaviors, stop them, and be open to happily move forward in compatible ways.
> 
> IME, if a spouse “changes” for reasons neither wanted, eg fakes an increased level of desire, that will eventually be felt and inescapable. (Of course, that’s just one data point, one I am blindingly close to.)
> 
> What is advantageous then is action to detach and move on, rather than attempts to look the other way, and maybe that is easier to do knowing you gave it a serious try.


Its not like you say you can't "try", I just think the failure rate has to be pretty high.....But for those who somehow were able to make it through....great...

As for the "hurt", while sure, it hurts the person on the receiving end who is being alienated, wouldn't it then technically "hurt" the one that is now having to force themselves to do something that they obviously didn't want to do? That's the tricky part of this...

I would never bother any woman that didn't want to have sex...I wouldn't even bring up the subject...Why would I want them to do what they wouldn't want? Wouldn't that almost qualify as a rape or at least a forcible or coerced sexual experience? Why does it matter that there is a piece of paper between the two of you??

I'm not even saying end the marriage necessarily....Just then realize that sex is over...Done...Situations like the OP isn't "I was sick, didn't feel like it today" type of thing...For whatever reason he's not interested in effing her....I don't buy the reasons that the porn is stopping him...IMO, he is using that as a release because he can't do it with her...If anything, the porn use affirms that he still has the need to do it...She's handing it to him on a silver platter and he's settling for scraps because whatever feeling he had once.....is now gone...he could end that tomorrow, but doesn't...speaks volumes..


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> Its not like you say you can't "try", I just think the failure rate has to be pretty high.....But for those who somehow were able to make it through....great...
> 
> As for the "hurt", while sure, it hurts the person on the receiving end who is being alienated, wouldn't it then technically "hurt" the one that is now having to force themselves to do something that they obviously didn't want to do? That's the tricky part of this...
> 
> ...


Stopping porn will hopefully enable him to focus his sexual energies on his wife, as he should. How can that be anything but positive?
I remember reading about a guy who used to stare at women a lot. He was struggling to find his wife attractive. He made a conscious decision not to stare or think about other women, to 'bounce his eyes' , and was amazed to find that his attraction for his wife returned. If that can happen in his situation with no actual porn use, then it can definitely happen in this case.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Stopping porn will hopefully enable him to focus his sexual energies on his wife, as he should. How can that be anything but positive?
> I remember reading about a guy who used to stare at women a lot. He was struggling to find his wife attractive. He made a conscious decision not to stare or think about other women, to 'bounce his eyes' , and was amazed to find that his attraction for his wife returned. If that can happen in his situation with no actual porn use, then it can definitely happen in this case.



If he doesn't like onions, sure. Take away all the other foods from him and I guess he'll eventually eat the onion soup. 

Sounds pretty positive to me. 

I've never "struggled" to find someone attractive. Either they are or they aren't. Sounds like a bizarre concept. I guess maybe if I was blind and miraculously was able to see? I dunno bout that.


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I think he’s worried about losing his wife appliance. I think we call it “hopium,” right?


 I don't think there's enough information either way but your assessment of him is plausible. I always though Hopium was the addictive feeling experienced by the partner who is "hoping for a better outcome".


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## crashdawg (11 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Stopping porn will hopefully enable him to focus his sexual energies on his wife, as he should. How can that be anything but positive?
> I remember reading about a guy who used to stare at women a lot. He was struggling to find his wife attractive. He made a conscious decision not to stare or think about other women, to 'bounce his eyes' , and was amazed to find that his attraction for his wife returned. If that can happen in his situation with no actual porn use, then it can definitely happen in this case.


The assumption is that something about her attracted him and enamored him to the point that he agreed to an exclusive committed relationship. It's a solid hope but we honestly don't know what's changed. All she can do at this point is to get him professional help. That will turn down the noise and allow them to focus on each other!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Men and women sometimes marry people they aren’t really sexually attracted to. They may be attracted to them in other ways but not sexually although they may try to convince themselves that they are. Eventually, that’s a problem for most people because almost invariably one is high drive and one isn’t. And for all the talk of turnarounds those are few and far between. A great deal of faking goes on (although the high drive person doesn’t want to believe that) but if the attraction wasn’t really there in the beginning then it’s rare it will suddenly start. What is very likely is that the low drive person wants to stay in the marriage so they will do what’s necessary if they know divorce is next.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Men and women sometimes marry people they aren’t really sexually attracted to.


It’s true and it’s awful. They’re just using people. It’s so selfish and cruel. The wronged spouse then struggles with the humiliation of being married to someone who tells them all day every day with their actions that they’re unattractive. They’re afraid to ask for more because the user spouse has beaten them down to the point they think they deserve mistreatment.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

@Melinda82,

The possibilities are what they are. Generalities are just generalities, and may or may not have relevance in any particular case.

It helps to know the possibilities and the general truths. It’s important to get clear what true success looks like, and not waste years exerting effort struggling to unearth only fools gold, or holding it in your hand thinking it’s the real thing.

If the real issue is you want to be wanted, understand that is different from him being “available” for sex at a certain frequency.

If the real issue is he avoids intimacy with you for some reason, then the porn use could just be a diversion he creates that makes the intimacy withholding practical to accomplish for him. That is, it may be a symptom he exploits in service to a deeper issue. If you pursue a better relationship with him, it may be crucial to challenge him with the notion the porn use is masking something else.

Seeking a turnaround and the loving feelings you desire is a pursuit in which it is easy to get lost. I recommend finding a therapist for yourself that can help you stay on track, set and honor deadlines for seeing true progress. Make clear that that is what you want help with. At some point in time, if things are not clearly turned around, then start intentionally detaching, start planning what your life could look like without such a drain on your heart and emotions.

It breaks my heart hearing of anyone being in this situation. There are many many would-be compatible partners out there for any decent human being. Would-be partners that don’t have a 10 number combination lock around their heart. Don’t forget you have something to offer. Don’t forget you are worthy of love, freely given, unquestioned.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

crashdawg said:


> Random run-on question. If someone uses porn to masturbate to orgasm with the specific intent of lasting longer in an evening session with their partner thereby meeting or exceeding the sexual needs of said partner, is that behavior in and of itself bad?
> 
> Lots of details missing including type of porn used and if porn is projected into the sexual experience to achieve orgasm, not really focused on that... Is the basic practice of "don't go in loaded, last longer" acceptable? dishonest? unfair?
> 
> Not directly applicable to the OP but worth discussing in the context of porn use in a relationship.


It’s easy to start a separate thread to discuss that. Too much of a thread jack here, IMO.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

crashdawg said:


> Random run-on question. If someone uses porn to masturbate to orgasm with the specific intent of lasting longer in an evening session with their partner thereby meeting or exceeding the sexual needs of said partner, is that behavior in and of itself bad?
> 
> Lots of details missing including type of porn used and if porn is projected into the sexual experience to achieve orgasm, not really focused on that... Is the basic practice of "don't go in loaded, last longer" acceptable? dishonest? unfair?
> 
> Not directly applicable to the OP but worth discussing in the context of porn use in a relationship.


NOT applicable to OP thus a threadjack. Porn use in general derails many threads. Please make a new thread to discuss this topic since it doesn't apply to OP


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

You’d have to be a freaking moron to marry someone you aren’t attracted to. The most plausible explanation for his loss of attraction is the hours, days, years he spent staring at other ladies naked online.

There’s something wicked about coveting something that ain’t yours… that’s why the Bible condemns it and it’s a “Commandment”. Yeah break it and you’re only hurting yourself (or your spouse and your marriage).


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> If he doesn't like onions, sure. Take away all the other foods from him and I guess he'll eventually eat the onion soup.
> 
> Sounds pretty positive to me.
> 
> I've never "struggled" to find someone attractive. Either they are or they aren't. Sounds like a bizarre concept. I guess maybe if I was blind and miraculously was able to see? I dunno bout that.


I get what you are saying with this analogy, but I don't think it is 100% applicable. You are assuming the man doesn't like onions soup at all. I think it could also be that he used to love it, all the time. He just lost his taste for it. Possibly because he was watching too many shows on the Food Network. He just needs a reminder of how much he loves them.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I get what you are saying with this analogy, but I don't think it is 100% applicable. You are assuming the man doesn't like onions soup at all. I think it could also be that he used to love it, all the time. He just lost his taste for it. Possibly because he was watching too many shows on the Food Network. He just needs a reminder of how much he loves them.


What makes me sad is anyone describing sex with your spouse as 'onion soup' and porn as 'all other foods'. 
It should be the other way round.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> What makes me sad is anyone describing sex with your spouse as 'onion soup' and porn as 'all other foods'.
> It should be the other way round.


It clearly started by someone for whom fidelity is their nightmare. Can you imagine? Loving someone is a terrible punishment for that person. How sad.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> What makes me sad is anyone describing sex with your spouse as 'onion soup' and porn as 'all other foods'.
> It should be the other way round.



You aren't getting it. 

"Sex with his spouse" in this case means nothing to him because she's handing it to him on a silver platter with a bow on it and he's turning his nose up to it.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

crashdawg said:


> Prayers and hopes and magic words are a solid start but get him into a porn addict program. The behaviours you described indicate he can't manage this on his own. He may "want" to be better but he'll likely need support to do it. Churches often have AA, NA, SA... different groups, same goal of managing their specific addiction through group support. Do some research, get him in a program.


I honestly don't have any evidence that he looked at it on a regular basis. He said his use was occasional and I don't have any proof otherwise. So I don't think he'd be considered an addict. But if he admits to more or I find proof of him exhibiting addict behavior, I will definitely be seeking therapy and/or a support group for him.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

hamadryad said:


> Forcing a guy to give up porn and jerking himself off, when he knows he could have sex with his wife anytime he wants, is the equivalent of forcing a guy who doesn't like onions to eat nothing but onion soup...He'll eventually eat the soup rather than starve to death, but it probably won't be satisfying or even desirable...
> 
> I think what would be interesting is to hear from people who have "given up" on sex with their partners...My guess is that almost none of them would say that they all of a sudden would do a 180 and miraculously see their partner as a sexual option...
> 
> It all goes back to the same thing as mentioned previously....What's the end game? Would anyone really be happy that in order for someone to fck you(something that they should be doing eagerly and without reservation or condition), you basically had to put a gun to their head? Is that enough to make it all good?? Sad to read that for some people, it IS actually enough.,...


Are you seriously equating me to onion soup??? My problems were my husband not initiating enough, him saying he wasn't highly attracted to me, and him spending time using porn. I never said my husband didn't enjoy sex with me. Trust me, he does. A lot. He has just always been too low-drive, lazy, distracted by porn, or not high enough turned on by me to put in the effort to start something. But once he does, he enjoys himself plenty. If it was miserable for him, or even only okay, I wouldn't want him touching me. I have a little more self-respect than that.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Stopping porn will hopefully enable him to focus his sexual energies on his wife, as he should. How can that be anything but positive?
> I remember reading about a guy who used to stare at women a lot. He was struggling to find his wife attractive. He made a conscious decision not to stare or think about other women, to 'bounce his eyes' , and was amazed to find that his attraction for his wife returned. If that can happen in his situation with no actual porn use, then it can definitely happen in this case.


My husband said after stopping porn that he thought it was increasing his attraction to me. If he can stay away from the porn, I think his attraction to me should improve. I don't know if he will see me the way I want--as one of the most beautiful, sexy women he's ever seen. But it's got to help.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Melinda82 said:


> Are you seriously equating me to onion soup??? My problems were my husband not initiating enough, him saying he wasn't highly attracted to me, and him spending time using porn. I never said my husband didn't enjoy sex with me. Trust me, he does. A lot. He has just always been too low-drive, lazy, distracted by porn, or not high enough turned on by me to put in the effort to start something. But once he does, he enjoys himself plenty. If it was miserable for him, or even only okay, I wouldn't want him touching me. I have a little more self-respect than that.


Fair enough. I'd consider a bowl of onion soup a 2 on a scale of 1 to 10 and he's calling you a 5 or 6. 

All kidding aside. I wish you well. You have a long road ahead of you with a high percentage rate of never getting beyond where you are now and easily going worse. Maybe you hold out long enough where you don't care either and the both of you can live happily ever after. Perhaps that's the answer to this. 

Most guys wouldn't degrade their wives the way he had to you without serious consequences. Most women would close up tighter than an oyster. You trudge on.

With or without porn, he won't wake up one day and all of a sudden see you as his sex goddess. And why on this Earth would a grown woman want to stand over her husband and police what he chooses to do with his sexual energy? That'd insane. 

He had every opportunity to do what he should and didn't. I don't see that ever changing. Maybe when he's tired of you nagging him about it or he sees it might end the marriage, he fakes it and you fall for it, or even accept that as better than what you have now. 

Again. I wish you well


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> Fair enough. I'd consider a bowl of onion soup a 2 on a scale of 1 to 10 and he's calling you a 5 or 6.
> 
> All kidding aside. I wish you well. You have a long road ahead of you with a high percentage rate of never getting beyond where you are now and easily going worse. Maybe you hold out long enough where you don't care either and the both of you can live happily ever after. Perhaps that's the answer to this.
> 
> ...


I want to start out by saying you add extreme value to this thread and I am not trying to be combative.

From the perspective of a fellow rejected wife, I’m trying to understand why our husband would marry his “onion soup” when there’s many other men who would view us as their most prized dish of all. Just staying with your analogy.

I don’t think there’s a woman alive who wants to police their husband’s “extra curricular” activities. I thought porn use would be to fill the gaps and was sorely mistaken when I discovered the depth of my husbands use. It does hurt and it takes away from the natural pursuer dynamic of marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> Fair enough. I'd consider a bowl of onion soup a 2 on a scale of 1 to 10 and he's calling you a 5 or 6.
> 
> All kidding aside. I wish you well. You have a long road ahead of you with a high percentage rate of never getting beyond where you are now and easily going worse. Maybe you hold out long enough where you don't care either and the both of you can live happily ever after. Perhaps that's the answer to this.
> 
> ...


It's not about policing him, it's about her setting wise boundaries that would improve the marriage and him deciding whether he thinks his wife and the marriage is worth more than porn.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Melinda82 said:


> I honestly don't have any evidence that he looked at it on a regular basis. He said his use was occasional and I don't have any proof otherwise. So I don't think he'd be considered an addict. But if he admits to more or I find proof of him exhibiting addict behavior, I will definitely be seeking therapy and/or a support group for him.


I agree his porn shouldn't interfere with your sexual satisfaction. 

But you finding him a therapist will not work out well. Any changes he wants to make has to be his own efforts.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

moulinyx said:


> I want to start out by saying you add extreme value to this thread and I am not trying to be combative.
> 
> From the perspective of a fellow rejected wife, I’m trying to understand why our husband would marry his “onion soup” when there’s many other men who would view us as their most prized dish of all. Just staying with your analogy.
> 
> I don’t think there’s a woman alive who wants to police their husband’s “extra curricular” activities. I thought porn use would be to fill the gaps and was sorely mistaken when I discovered the depth of my husbands use. It does hurt and it takes away from the natural pursuer dynamic of marriage.


I appreciate the compliment.....I think...lol.

Just like the OP, I am sincerely sorry you had to endure that...Yes, I do understand that it hurts..The truth is there is no guarantee anyone would treat anyone else as their prize..Maybe they do in the beginning and don't later.......Committed long term marriages/ relationships are very uncertain and often filled with a lot or what if's, surprises, and maybes...That's life....You either enter the game with eyes open or you stay on the bench...

You can say "no woman wants to police their husbands activities",( we can include men as well with their wives), but that's exactly what a lot of the advice suggests, both on this thread and a lot of others. "Tell him to get his T levels checked, take him to the Dr..take away his smartphone" etc.. Can you believe this ****? We are supposed to be grown assed adults, ffs...

I don't think porn(just for the record, I am neither for nor against porn) "takes away the natural pursuer dynamic"....That would be like me saying I can't go on a diet, because everywhere I look there are advertisements for pizza and fast food.. People like to believe this, because quite frankly, it's a lot easier to find a tangible boogey man to attack or blame...In my opinion, no man that willingly wants sex with a woman would choose porn instead...What normally happens is that the porn(or prostitute, or AP)becomes the "fix" for the existing underlying issue...

There is no right or wrong here...Posters have opinions, and they usually differ...My only contention is that a guy that tells his wife she's no better than a 5 or 6, avoids her sexually, for months or even years at a time, _ even when she initiates(_which a lot of women don't do), has no physical issues, etc, has a bigger problem than just porn...I believe that he could go completely cold turkey on the pornography and not be any more affectionate or sexual...Why would he, if he already had a huge green light over her head?? Makes little or no sense to me..


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> Fair enough. I'd consider a bowl of onion soup a 2 on a scale of 1 to 10 and he's calling you a 5 or 6.
> 
> All kidding aside. I wish you well. You have a long road ahead of you with a high percentage rate of never getting beyond where you are now and easily going worse. Maybe you hold out long enough where you don't care either and the both of you can live happily ever after. Perhaps that's the answer to this.
> 
> ...


Working on a relationship and yourself actually works. It's when people don't do it (which is often enough) that change doesn't occur.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> Working on a relationship and yourself actually works. It's when people don't do it (which is often enough) that change doesn't occur.


Couples(and individuals) can work on a lot of things....and have great success....Stuff like money and budget,, who is doing or not doing the chores or stuff with the kids,etc...These are the types of things that can and do improve with cooperation, discussion, etc..

When it comes to sex, I think its a different thing, and often "work" wont change it...There is a "chemistry" needed in order for it to happen and be more than just a task...Something that should come natural and supposed to be so anticipated and enjoyed, takes almost no effort, and is great fun and bonding, shouldn't need "work", because the chemistry is what makes it happen...I guess sex therapists would argue and that's fine...

I also believe that you can salvage this type of thing if its nipped very early on and doesn't become chronic and long lasting......The longer this issue is allowed to exist, the harder it is to get back the chemistry... Perhaps the "work" people talk about may result in some form of mechanical, scheduled, unspontaneous, type of sex and that's fine...For some, I guess that would work well enough to keep their marriage together...I guess a lot of others wouldn't really want that type of thing, though...02


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

...and it requires BOTH partners to work on it and have interest in it like my reply from a day or so ago.

If just ONE is working on it, not a damn thing will happen. Period.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> My only contention is that a guy that tells his wife she's no better than a 5 or 6, avoids her sexually, for months or even years at a time, _ even when she initiates(_which a lot of women don't do), has no physical issues, etc, has a bigger problem than just porn...I believe that he could go completely cold turkey on the pornography and not be any more affectionate or sexual...Why would he, if he already had a huge green light over her head?? Makes little or no sense to me..


He will still have those images etched in his mind for probably years to come. He is -whether consciously or not- comparing his wife to porn stars. How is any regular woman supposed to compete with millions of other women, younger or taller or tanner or bigger breasted or w/e women who are paid to do it all -no matter how kinky or taboo- at any time? 

I do agree that he isn't likely to change though. He knows she wants more. He clearly does not. Attempts to get more will likely be as fruitless as when a woman has gone cold on her man. 

I think there are two options. Repair the underlying issues and help him fall in love with her again - fill the love bank - or leave him to a relationship with his porn and start a new life without him.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> Couples(and individuals) can work on a lot of things....and have great success....Stuff like money and budget,, who is doing or not doing the chores or stuff with the kids,etc...These are the types of things that can and do improve with cooperation, discussion, etc..
> 
> When it comes to sex, I think its a different thing, and often "work" wont change it...There is a "chemistry" needed in order for it to happen and be more than just a task...Something that should come natural and supposed to be so anticipated and enjoyed, takes almost no effort, and is great fun and bonding, shouldn't need "work", because the chemistry is what makes it happen...I guess sex therapists would argue and that's fine...
> 
> I also believe that you can salvage this type of thing if its nipped very early on and doesn't become chronic and long lasting......The longer this issue is allowed to exist, the harder it is to get back the chemistry... Perhaps the "work" people talk about may result in some form of mechanical, scheduled, unspontaneous, type of sex and that's fine...For some, I guess that would work well enough to keep their marriage together...I guess a lot of others wouldn't really want that type of thing, though...02


I've seen a willingness to work on sexual issues yield results every time two people were committed to working on it. The real problem is in the commitment to work that many aren't willing to undertake.

Mrs. Conan's sexual growth has been amazing.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> ...and it requires BOTH partners to work on it and have interest in it like my reply from a day or so ago.
> 
> If just ONE is working on it, not a damn thing will happen. Period.


No arguments from this barbarian.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> ...and it requires BOTH partners to work on it and have interest in it like my reply from a day or so ago.
> 
> If just ONE is working on it, not a damn thing will happen. Period.


This is the truth that is so often ignored. It doesn't matter how perfect she makes herself, she can't compete with porn stars. He has to want this to work, and want her as more than a wife appliance, or she's wasting her efforts. She's better off on her own than drowning in self-hatred and self-doubt because she can't change someone else.


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## thatgirl1999 (12 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> I am a 40-year-old woman and have been with my husband since we were teenagers. Our marriage is great in many ways. We enjoy each other's company and work well together taking care of our home and family.
> 
> Until last year, the only issue in our marriage was sex. When we have it, it's amazing. He always climaxes and I usually do as well. The problem is after the initial honeymoon phase, the frequency went down. My husband usually goes between several days to a few weeks between initiating, although he has occasionally gone several weeks or even months. Then he will want sex two or three times in a week before another dry spell. I have always wanted more regular intimacy. I need sex at least once a week to not be miserable (and more often to be happy). Consequently, I have spent quite a lot of the last two decades sexually frustrated. I used to try to initiate, but if he is not already in the mood, he rarely agrees. He's "too tired," his "stomach hurts," or he's "just not thinking about it right now." Even if he does agree, the sex is never as good as it is when he initiates. (However, I never tell him no and enjoy sex just as much if he is the one to put me in the mood.) So I've learned to wait for the mood to strike him. I've put up with it, believing he was just a lower-drive person than me. However, I have had many conversations with him over the years, particularly because when he's not "in the mood," he also doesn't show me much other physical affection (hugging, kissing, touching), leaving me feeling completely neglected, unloved, and undesirable.
> 
> ...


I'm in my 30s and I experienced this last year found out it was going on during our whole marriage. I fell out of love with him also. Im in therapy, he suggested I buy him a flip phone to help with being tempted to look at porn. Since June of last year I was so desperate to try and work things out but now that he's wanting to try therapy I feel like it's to little to late. Be your own judge only you know/will know if you will want to work things out


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> I am a 40-year-old woman and have been with my husband since we were teenagers. Our marriage is great in many ways. We enjoy each other's company and work well together taking care of our home and family.
> 
> Until last year, the only issue in our marriage was sex. When we have it, it's amazing. He always climaxes and I usually do as well. The problem is after the initial honeymoon phase, the frequency went down. My husband usually goes between several days to a few weeks between initiating, although he has occasionally gone several weeks or even months. Then he will want sex two or three times in a week before another dry spell. I have always wanted more regular intimacy. I need sex at least once a week to not be miserable (and more often to be happy). Consequently, I have spent quite a lot of the last two decades sexually frustrated. I used to try to initiate, but if he is not already in the mood, he rarely agrees. He's "too tired," his "stomach hurts," or he's "just not thinking about it right now." Even if he does agree, the sex is never as good as it is when he initiates. (However, I never tell him no and enjoy sex just as much if he is the one to put me in the mood.) So I've learned to wait for the mood to strike him. I've put up with it, believing he was just a lower-drive person than me. However, I have had many conversations with him over the years, particularly because when he's not "in the mood," he also doesn't show me much other physical affection (hugging, kissing, touching), leaving me feeling completely neglected, unloved, and undesirable.
> 
> ...


You don't need this, tell him to cure himself of it. Tell him don't comeback unti you are honest, trustworthy, and kicked the habit.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Same. Even if I’m not in the mood when we start I rev up pretty quickly.


wife is that way too.
barring something actually wrong, like a bad headache....getting her motor running takes only a few minutes....

it is important for women like this to realize they need to yield to their hubbies when they are trying to turn them on, as almost always they WILL be turned on only minutes later, and have a really good time.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> This is the truth that is so often ignored. It doesn't matter how perfect she makes herself, she can't compete with porn stars.


have you looked at actual porn?
most of those women are NOT super models.
they are often relatively plain, but are EAGER FOR SEX, exude sex on the video, and turn on a guy with her eagerness.

i do not get all this jealousy about porn stars. Probably ANY woman here could elicit the exact same horny response from their husband if they just chose to dress and act sexy before him!

And if you are in a loving marriage, it is even EASIER to turn him on, since he is predisposed to want you sexually.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> have you looked at actual porn?
> most of those women are NOT super models.
> they are often relatively plain, but are EAGER FOR SEX, exude sex on the video, and turn on a guy with her eagerness.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on this one. The sheer eagerness and passion is probably a greater turn on than the aesthetics. Even in my own sex life the passion exhibited by my wife makes the difference between good sex and amazing sex.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I agree with you on this one. The sheer eagerness and passion is probably a greater turn on than the aesthetics. Even in my own sex life the passion exhibited by my wife makes the difference between good sex and amazing sex.


This is all great and all. But how often are we told right here on these forums. Men are visual. Hymadril comes right out and says if you get overweight expect to be dumped or no sex. We are told in all forms of our life from men checking out women in the grocery store, to movies, and memes that looks do matter. Then you get all shocked and shaken when us 50 years olds wonder is we are attractive enough. Not to mention there are plenty of studies that show porn effects the porn user and their views of the real world.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> This is all great and all. But how often are we told right here on these forums. Men are visual. Hymadril comes right out and says if you get overweight expect to be dumped or no sex. We are told in all forms of our life from men checking out women in the grocery store, to movies, and memes that looks do matter. Then you get all shocked and shaken when us 50 years olds wonder is we are attractive enough. Not to mention there are plenty of studies that show porn effects the porn user and their views of the real world.


Truth. We have been told, on here, point blank, that as you age you should expect infidelity AT BEST, but really you should expect to be left and spend your life alone. Not by all men, but definitely by several. If we don't look like a 22 year old porn star, we're pretty much screwed. Or not screwed, in this case. 😉


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> This is all great and all. But how often are we told right here on these forums. Men are visual. Hymadril comes right out and says if you get overweight expect to be dumped or no sex. We are told in all forms of our life from men checking out women in the grocery store, to movies, and memes that looks do matter. Then you get all shocked and shaken when us 50 years olds wonder is we are attractive enough. Not to mention there are plenty of studies that show porn effects the porn user and their views of the real world.


Please know I wasn't trying to justify porn. I was only pointing out that the passion exhibited is a major turn on. It is still a visual thing, just not a visual of the performer's looks, but their actions. 

I agree, porn does effect the user, but that isn't all coming from the looks of the performer.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I think porn tends to play on women's insecurities in general like maybe previous lovers and penis size might play on men's insecurities in general.

There could be plenty of men who don't say their women need to look like women in their twenties for them to be attractive to their own husbands but one or two men claiming otherwise strikes a sensitive spot.

Similar to many women assuring men they are satisfied with their husbands despite having other lovers in their past and possibly guys with more endowment only to be struck in their sensitive area when a couple women might indicate penis size or something else a man really can't overcome makes a lot of difference.

It seems easier to believe the worst when it comes to our insecurities.

Porn is very damaging in this barbarian's opinion and to all involved but I tend to agree with @BigDaddyNY that it's the mood of lust and excitement that is the turn on over the appearance of pornstars in general.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Does all this really have anything to do with porn? The husband is using porn to satisfy his hidden desire for big boobs, which his wife doesn't have. So, I'm afraid, the reality is even more crushing. He married a woman he is not physically attracted to. Porn can be fixed, lack of physical attraction? I doubt it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Truth. We have been told, on here, point blank, that as you age you should expect infidelity AT BEST, but really you should expect to be left and spend your life alone. Not by all men, but definitely by several. If we don't look like a 22 year old porn star, we're pretty much screwed. Or not screwed, in this case. 😉


Find and quote one statement where someone has said that any women will be cheated on and dumped if she doesn’t look like a 22 year old porn star. 

Some may have said that if you let yourself go and put on 100lbs and don’t shower or wash your hair or brush your teeth for weeks at a time, you’ll be at risk.

there is no excuse for that for either men or women. If a guy lets himself go and puts on 100lbs and becomes a slob, he is at just as much if not even more risk of being cheated on and dumped than a woman. 

But no one has ever said that a normal, healthy woman that takes reasonable care of herself will get cheated on and dumped simply because she doesn’t look like a 22 year old porn star.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Talker67 said:


> have you looked at actual porn?
> most of those women are NOT super models.
> they are often relatively plain, but are EAGER FOR SEX, exude sex on the video, and turn on a guy with her eagerness.
> 
> ...


A lot of truisms here.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> we're pretty much screwed. Or not screwed, in this case. 😉


I'm laughing at this part.😋


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> Does all this really have anything to do with porn? The husband is using porn to satisfy his hidden desire for big boobs, which his wife doesn't have. So, I'm afraid, the reality is even more crushing. He married a woman he is not physically attracted to. Porn can be fixed, lack of physical attraction? I doubt it.


She did mention that the longer he has gone without porn, the more his attraction for her has increased.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Find and quote one statement where someone has said that any women will be cheated on and dumped if she doesn’t look like a 22 year old porn star.
> 
> Some may have said that if you let yourself go and put on 100lbs and don’t shower or wash your hair or brush your teeth for weeks at a time, you’ll be at risk.
> 
> ...


I have the men who say that stuff on ignore, because I don't believe I will find value in anything they say. I'm certainly not going to comb through ignored posts to quote people so you can report me for personal attacks.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> I'm laughing at this part.😋


Good. It makes me happy to make people laugh. 💖


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Does all this really have anything to do with porn? The husband is using porn to satisfy his hidden desire for big boobs, which his wife doesn't have. So, I'm afraid, the reality is even more crushing. He married a woman he is not physically attracted to. Porn can be fixed, lack of physical attraction? I doubt it.


It's about a person who married for a spouse appliance. We see it go both ways, women marry men they're not attracted to for money and security, and men marry women they're not attracted to so they have someone to cook and clean and breed. Then the marriage is unhappy, because it doesn't work when only one person loves their spouse.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Good. It makes me happy to make people laugh. 💖


And laughing is something I value so thanks!🙂


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> She did mention that the longer he has gone without porn, the more his attraction for her has increased.


well, yes, I'm sure the porn doesn't help... but I think the issue is something completely different.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Hey Melinda, how are things?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Good. It makes me happy to make people laugh. 💖


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> Hey Melinda, how are things?


Thanks for asking! We just ended our first week of scheduled sex. He initiated twice and I initiated twice, just like we agreed on. Four times in a week has me quite content sexually.  I don't know if we'll be able to keep it up or not. There's a good chance our busy lives with work and kids will interfere and take us back to where we were. But for now, frequency is good.

As far as quality goes, we both enjoyed ourselves this week, just like we always have. We didn't try anything new, but what we do works well for us both. I was able to enjoy myself (and actually SMILE during/after sex!) by not thinking about the whole "average" attractiveness thing. It still hurts. It always will. But I have to believe him when he says he IS attracted to me--just not as much as I want. He definitely shows that he's attracted to me at times (usually when he's horny). And, like I've said before, usually it's my butt that gets his attention. It's probably the rest of me he feels "average" about.  I'm still not okay with that. But I don't know of anything I can do to change it.

On the porn issue: nothing's changed. He still says he's stopped. I don't have any proof either way. Although I have access to his phone, I know that if he's still doing it, he'll delete the browser history. So I'm not going to find anything. Without knowing for sure, I'm always going to wonder when he's super horny--Is it because he was looking at porn? (He admitted that in the past, sometimes it put him in the mood to try out things he'd seen.) Or when he's not in the mood and doesn't seem to enjoy sex as much as usual, I'm going to wonder--Is it because he's already masturbated to porn today? He doesn't seem like he's hiding anything anymore, but I can't trust him and probably never will.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Please know I wasn't trying to justify porn. I was only pointing out that the passion exhibited is a major turn on. It is still a visual thing, just not a visual of the performer's looks, but their actions.
> 
> I agree, porn does effect the user, but that isn't all coming from the looks of the performer.


In my husband's case, I don't think this is the issue. He has a very passionate, eager wife. I always have been. Plus the one tamer clip I watched in order to fully understand my husband's fetish, was a montage of multiple large-breasted women shaking their breasts! There were no men in the video for the women to act eager for. It was definitely a "visual of the performer's looks." There were many other titles in his browser history with "big titties." That is why the porn thing hit me so hard. Not only has my husband been lying to me and looking at other women naked for sexual arousal. But he also has been focused on aspects of them that are opposite of me! (Well, not exactly opposite. My breasts aren't that small. They just aren't full of silicone!)


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## poohgirl84 (10 mo ago)

Hi, I know how you feel all too well my husband of 22 years watched porn and i didn't know the same things. You explained it is the same way it was for me step by step, but when i found out, I told him, not only did i try to be sexier and I'm a hot woman regardless, but he knows it, but he has also gotten used to my looks and i no longer do it for him .i tried everything and he had the nerve to tell me he didn't like lingerie, but he would watch women with lingerie on the porn shows. and it killed me. He also would look up big breasted women and would tell me my b cup was want he likes he lied and everytime i would see his searches i would die alittle more everytime so it got to were i would cry myself to sleep everynight and when i would see or find he had been doing it he would lie and say i was crazy so he would delete his searches and it got to the point we fought so much because hw wouldnt stop that he would hit me and hurt me and call me crazy when i had proof on my phone so he lost his phone and i told him if he got a phone we would seperate cause he would be doin the same things and he wasnt going to hurt me or put his hands on me any more so it was good for a month then he realized he could watch stuff on youtube then it all started again. He would sit up everynight and i couldnt understand why he wouldnt go to bed at the same time as me we did for 20 years,so i found out what he was doing and confronted him with all his history and at this time he acked like he was doing me a favor to have sex with me .from then to know he still does the same stuff he still hits me when i confront him and i actually caught him watching other women naked right after we had sex and had to stop because he couldnt perform so i stayed in the bed didnt think nothing of it it was night time .i got up and went to the bath room and there he was watching it and had the nerve to tell me he was watching it and was going to come back in the room and finish with me im now getting a divorce and i have no self esteme i feel ugly and im not and worthless and i just dont know what happend to the husband i trusted so much i would have swore on a bible that my husband would never hurt me like that till the day i found out.i will never be the same i hate myself why couldnt god make me perfect like the women my husband has choosen over me his was bestfriend we were everything together we were so happy .why what did i do .I still pray that one day he will find himself again but i cant wait on it to happen anymore


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Porn is clearly straight from hell, y’all. No doubt about it. So many wives just longing for their betraying hubbies- so sad. The young guys can hide it well enough because all young guys want sex all day. Soon enough age creeps in and soon wifey ain’t getting enough and the whole marriage comes crashing down.

Ladies, don’t believe it’s about you or your shortcomings… this problem sits squarely on the shoulders of these immoral and sad little men… spending their time beating off like adolescent boys. Golly, manhood has hit an all time low!


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> Thanks for asking! We just ended our first week of scheduled sex. He initiated twice and I initiated twice, just like we agreed on. Four times in a week has me quite content sexually.  I don't know if we'll be able to keep it up or not. There's a good chance our busy lives with work and kids will interfere and take us back to where we were. But for now, frequency is good.
> 
> As far as quality goes, we both enjoyed ourselves this week, just like we always have. We didn't try anything new, but what we do works well for us both. I was able to enjoy myself (and actually SMILE during/after sex!) by not thinking about the whole "average" attractiveness thing. It still hurts. It always will. But I have to believe him when he says he IS attracted to me--just not as much as I want. He definitely shows that he's attracted to me at times (usually when he's horny). And, like I've said before, usually it's my butt that gets his attention. It's probably the rest of me he feels "average" about.  I'm still not okay with that. But I don't know of anything I can do to change it.
> 
> On the porn issue: nothing's changed. He still says he's stopped. I don't have any proof either way. Although I have access to his phone, I know that if he's still doing it, he'll delete the browser history. So I'm not going to find anything. Without knowing for sure, I'm always going to wonder when he's super horny--Is it because he was looking at porn? (He admitted that in the past, sometimes it put him in the mood to try out things he'd seen.) Or when he's not in the mood and doesn't seem to enjoy sex as much as usual, I'm going to wonder--Is it because he's already masturbated to porn today? He doesn't seem like he's hiding anything anymore, but I can't trust him and probably never will.


I'm glad you're doing better and I hope he's truly trying and won't lapse as soon as he gets comfortable. I still advise you to start doing things for you to help boost your self esteem and confidence and dressing sharp, if only to maximize antsy 😆


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

poohgirl84 said:


> Hi, I know how you feel all too well my husband of 22 years watched porn and i didn't know the same things. You explained it is the same way it was for me step by step, but when i found out, I told him, not only did i try to be sexier and I'm a hot woman regardless, but he knows it, but he has also gotten used to my looks and i no longer do it for him .i tried everything and he had the nerve to tell me he didn't like lingerie, but he would watch women with lingerie on the porn shows. and it killed me. He also would look up big breasted women and would tell me my b cup was want he likes he lied and everytime i would see his searches i would die alittle more everytime so it got to were i would cry myself to sleep everynight and when i would see or find he had been doing it he would lie and say i was crazy so he would delete his searches and it got to the point we fought so much because hw wouldnt stop that he would hit me and hurt me and call me crazy when i had proof on my phone so he lost his phone and i told him if he got a phone we would seperate cause he would be doin the same things and he wasnt going to hurt me or put his hands on me any more so it was good for a month then he realized he could watch stuff on youtube then it all started again. He would sit up everynight and i couldnt understand why he wouldnt go to bed at the same time as me we did for 20 years,so i found out what he was doing and confronted him with all his history and at this time he acked like he was doing me a favor to have sex with me .from then to know he still does the same stuff he still hits me when i confront him and i actually caught him watching other women naked right after we had sex and had to stop because he couldnt perform so i stayed in the bed didnt think nothing of it it was night time .i got up and went to the bath room and there he was watching it and had the nerve to tell me he was watching it and was going to come back in the room and finish with me im now getting a divorce and i have no self esteme i feel ugly and im not and worthless and i just dont know what happend to the husband i trusted so much i would have swore on a bible that my husband would never hurt me like that till the day i found out.i will never be the same i hate myself why couldnt god make me perfect like the women my husband has choosen over me his was bestfriend we were everything together we were so happy .why what did i do .I still pray that one day he will find himself again but i cant wait on it to happen anymore


@poohgirl84 What a horrible situation. But I’m glad you’re taking steps to bring happiness back into your life.
I would encourage you to start a new thread for yourself and talk these things out with the TAM community. There’s lots of support here if you need it.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> Porn is clearly straight from hell, y’all. No doubt about it. So many wives just longing for their betraying hubbies- so sad. The young guys can hide it well enough because all young guys want sex all day. Soon enough age creeps in and soon wifey ain’t getting enough and the whole marriage comes crashing down.
> 
> Ladies, don’t believe it’s about you or your shortcomings… this problem sits squarely on the shoulders of these immoral and sad little men… spending their time beating off like adolescent boys. Golly, manhood has hit an all time low!


As always, I respectfully disagree. Sometimes porn is a result of things and not the cause. But we have had this discussion before.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I’m glad things are going well. At first I was really mad at him on your behalf but it sounds like he’s trying. I know in my own life my husband will get excited about a new hobby (not porn). It’s usually small steps over time but it’s happened that it got away from him. Maybe that’s what this was: he wasn’t thinking about how this affected you, he was just doing something and let it go to far. Time will tell, I hope it works out.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

poohgirl84 said:


> Hi, I know how you feel all too well my husband of 22 years watched porn and i didn't know the same things. You explained it is the same way it was for me step by step, but when i found out, I told him, not only did i try to be sexier and I'm a hot woman regardless, but he knows it, but he has also gotten used to my looks and i no longer do it for him .i tried everything and he had the nerve to tell me he didn't like lingerie, but he would watch women with lingerie on the porn shows. and it killed me. He also would look up big breasted women and would tell me my b cup was want he likes he lied and everytime i would see his searches i would die alittle more everytime so it got to were i would cry myself to sleep everynight and when i would see or find he had been doing it he would lie and say i was crazy so he would delete his searches and it got to the point we fought so much because hw wouldnt stop that he would hit me and hurt me and call me crazy when i had proof on my phone so he lost his phone and i told him if he got a phone we would seperate cause he would be doin the same things and he wasnt going to hurt me or put his hands on me any more so it was good for a month then he realized he could watch stuff on youtube then it all started again. He would sit up everynight and i couldnt understand why he wouldnt go to bed at the same time as me we did for 20 years,so i found out what he was doing and confronted him with all his history and at this time he acked like he was doing me a favor to have sex with me .from then to know he still does the same stuff he still hits me when i confront him and i actually caught him watching other women naked right after we had sex and had to stop because he couldnt perform so i stayed in the bed didnt think nothing of it it was night time .i got up and went to the bath room and there he was watching it and had the nerve to tell me he was watching it and was going to come back in the room and finish with me im now getting a divorce and i have no self esteme i feel ugly and im not and worthless and i just dont know what happend to the husband i trusted so much i would have swore on a bible that my husband would never hurt me like that till the day i found out.i will never be the same i hate myself why couldnt god make me perfect like the women my husband has choosen over me his was bestfriend we were everything together we were so happy .why what did i do .I still pray that one day he will find himself again but i cant wait on it to happen anymore


Thank goodness you are divorcing that creep. He sounds appalling.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m glad things are going well. At first I was really mad at him on your behalf but it sounds like he’s trying. I know in my own life my husband will get excited about a new hobby (not porn). It’s usually small steps over time but it’s happened that it got away from him. Maybe that’s what this was: he wasn’t thinking about how this affected you, he was just doing something and let it go to far. Time will tell, I hope it works out.


That may be part of it. Now that you mention it, he doesn't have a lot of hobbies. But once he gets interested in something, he does it a lot. Lately, he's playing games on his phone all the time. Not necessarily the best use of his time, but a big improvement from porn!


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> That may be part of it. Now that you mention it, he doesn't have a lot of hobbies. But once he gets interested in something, he does it a lot. Lately, he's playing games on his phone all the time. Not necessarily the best use of his time, but a big improvement from porn!


I'm really into Elvenar and dance videos on the internet. It has nothing to do with my actual life but it does keep me up late sometimes. Nothing nefarious or bad, but a distraction for sure.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

The next time you catch him with big tittie porn, download a bunch of pics of BBCs. That usually sends shivers of fear down the spine of a ton of men. Let him see what it feels like.

(Mind you, I'm mean like that).


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> The next time you catch him with big tittie porn, download a bunch of pics of BBCs. That usually sends shivers of fear down the spine of a ton of men. Let him see what it feels like.
> 
> (Mind you, I'm mean like that).


I heartily endorse this message. Dudes are really sensitive about this, especially when you're HD and already intimidate them. 

How are things otherwise?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> The next time you catch him with big tittie porn, download a bunch of pics of BBCs. That usually sends shivers of fear down the spine of a ton of men. Let him see what it feels like.
> 
> (Mind you, I'm mean like that).


Now now. Let's not discriminate. BWC should not be overlooked. Remember diversity.😋


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Now now. Let's not discriminate. BWC should not be overlooked. Remember diversity.😋


I just saw BC and couldn't keep quiet, just noticed the extra B 😂


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

TXTrini said:


> I heartily endorse this message. Dudes are really sensitive about this, especially when you're HD and already intimidate them.
> 
> How are things otherwise?


If the woman was HD, the guy shouldn't even know what porn is!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> I just saw BC and couldn't keep quiet, just noticed the extra B 😂


LoL! So you just saw something big and jumped all over it?😋😉


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> If the woman was HD, the guy shouldn't even know what porn is!


You'd be surprised. Some people don't like to "work".


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

TXTrini said:


> You'd be surprised. Some people don't like to "work".


I would welcome the opportunity!!!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> If the woman was HD, the guy shouldn't even know what porn is!





TXTrini said:


> You'd be surprised. Some people don't like to "work".


Yes, it’s often not about the other person’s level of desire but rather laziness, apathy and neglect. 

To flip the script, that’s like saying the wife of an HD man should never read 50-Shades or other romance novels or any of the Bachelor/Bachelorette shows or soap operas. 

If one’s partner prefers porn, romance novels or trash tv etc over their spouse, that means they either have no attraction/desire for them, or they are just lazy duds that don’t care enough to lift a finger.

Which is better, which is worse?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> LoL! So you just saw something big and jumped all over it?😋😉


I knew I liked @TXTrini. Girl after my own heart.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Yes, it’s often not about the other person’s level of desire but rather laziness, apathy and neglect.
> 
> To flip the script, that’s like saying the wife of an HD man should never read 50-Shades or other romance novels or any of the Bachelor/Bachelorette shows or soap operas.
> 
> ...


I remember ordering and reading a whole bunch of smut bc I was literally starving and the ex got pissed. I laughed so hard and ordered more outrageous ones to see if he'd DO anything. Nope. (I don't know how women can stand to read some of those, such terrible writing!) He was the kind of dude who didn't believe in foreplay and sexy banter and expected a chick to go from 0-60 in 5 minutes and hop on board and ride the train if you catch my drift. Quite frankly, I'm terrified to remarry and get stuck in that situation again.

You're damned if you do a damned if you don't. Sometimes I think it would be nice to be assigned to a compatible partner instead of having to dig for gold, but that's part of life and learning I suppose. I really hope OP caught this in time before it spirals down to an apathetic at best, or dramatically painful end.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> You'd be surprised. Some people don't like to "work".


I think that's part of the problem with my husband. He's always claimed "laziness" was the reason he would go so long between initiating and why he'd reject my attempts at initiating. He is pretty lazy. And sex takes at least 15 to 20 minutes, during which time he focuses on pleasing me. While I'm guessing getting off to porn takes probably 2 to 5 minutes of complete focus on himself!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> I think that's part of the problem with my husband. He's always claimed "laziness" was the reason he would go so long between initiating and why he'd reject my attempts at initiating. He is pretty lazy. And sex takes at least 15 to 20 minutes, during which time he focuses on pleasing me. While I'm guessing getting off to porn takes probably 2 to 5 minutes of complete focus on himself!


This is the problem with a lot of men. They think sex starts in the bedroom - WRONG! If they had any game, any game at all, they would know to keep the romance at a simmer so it doesn't take as long to get to a boil. Dr. Phil (I know, I know) would tell guys that if they wanted sex on a Saturday then they needed to start on Monday. And, it's true. 

How hard is it to flirt with your spouse? I mean, you have a captive audience so take advantage. It might not take him 15 to 20 minutes to rev you up if he knew what he was doing. A lot of people would consider 15-20 minutes a quickie.

Besides, I'm betting you spend a lot more time making his damn dinner.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> This is the problem with a lot of men. They think sex starts in the bedroom - WRONG! If they had any game, any game at all, they would know to keep the romance at a simmer so it doesn't take as long to get to a boil. Dr. Phil (I know, I know) would tell guys that if they wanted sex on a Saturday then they needed to start on Monday. And, it's true.
> 
> How hard is it to flirt with your spouse? I mean, you have a captive audience so take advantage. It might not take him 15 to 20 minutes to rev you up if he knew what he was doing. A lot of people would consider 15-20 minutes a quickie.
> 
> Besides, I'm betting you spend a lot more time making his damn dinner.


I will admit that Melinda's husband sounds lazy. I mean too lazy to have sex?! WTF?

And start on Monday if you want sex on Saturday? What if you want it sooner? 

But its not just a MEN problem like you stated. The woman has a role too. Guys like me flirt and tease and try to be playful all the time with our wives and are met with "Stop that" or "I'm not in the mood" Not in the mood to be flirted with?!?!?!

When that happens, the guy stops. At least in my experience.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I will admit that Melinda's husband sounds lazy. I mean too lazy to have sex?! WTF?
> 
> And start on Monday if you want sex on Saturday? What if you want it sooner?
> 
> ...


Thankfully my wife rarely tires of me flirting with her. It is pretty much an ongoing part of our everyday life. I think she has come to expect it and knows I'm not feeling well if it falls off, lol. As @Blondilocks said, it helps keep her, and me, always on simmer. Ideally there should always be at least a small amount of sexual tension between spouses.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I will admit that Melinda's husband sounds lazy. I mean too lazy to have sex?! WTF?
> 
> And start on Monday if you want sex on Saturday? What if you want it sooner?
> 
> ...


I think your problem is more fundamental.

I believe your wife doesn't perceive you as a mate. Your in the roommate/pet kind of zone with her.

You don't activate her ovaries or trigger a female response to a masculine presence.

Could be, and probably is a combination of, a number of reasons.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> I think your problem is more fundamental.
> 
> I believe your wife doesn't perceive you as a mate. Your in the roommate/pet kind of zone with her.
> 
> ...


Yeah not sure what it is. And she never wants to discuss it. Just tells me she needs more from me to be interested in sex but I am never sure what that "it" is? Last time she said No to sex she said she needed more of an emotional connection to me and to feel safe and protected. I thought I was providing that already but maybe I am wrong? I just hear No so often (I am at a 46% success rate lately) that it all blends together.

Some of you guys are really fortunate as I know you and guys like Big Daddy and Personal have been married long term. I think you have mentioned previously your wife almost never says No to sex too.

Thats pretty cool and some of us would appreciate those aspects more than any would believe instead of spending time trying to figure it all out.

Edit to add: She also tells me I have an unreal perception of what a good sex life is like and no one has the sex life I talk about (sex many times per week, hour long sessions, trying new things, etc) I know her belief is incorrect but that makes it a challenge too.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Yeah not sure what it is. And she never wants to discuss it. Just tells me she needs more from me to be interested in sex but I am never sure what that "it" is? Last time she said No to sex she said she needed more of an emotional connection to me and to feel safe and protected. I thought I was providing that already but maybe I am wrong? I just hear No so often (I am at a 46% success rate lately) that it all blends together.
> 
> Some of you guys are really fortunate as I know you and guys like Big Daddy and Personal have been married long term. I think you have mentioned previously your wife almost never says No to sex too.
> 
> Thats pretty cool and some of us would appreciate those aspects more than any would believe instead of spending time trying to figure it all out.


I'm baffled by it too. I really can't completely get my mind wrapped around why it has to be so difficult. Is it just not enough physical attraction? A lack of desire? Again, I can't wrap my mind around why spouses would not be regularly interested in sexual relations with each other.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Yeah not sure what it is. And she never wants to discuss it. Just tells me she needs more from me to be interested in sex but I am never sure what that "it" is? Last time she said No to sex she said she needed more of an emotional connection to me and to feel safe and protected. I thought I was providing that already but maybe I am wrong? I just hear No so often (I am at a 46% success rate lately) that it all blends together.
> 
> Some of you guys are really fortunate as I know you and guys like Big Daddy and Personal have been married long term. I think you have mentioned previously your wife almost never says No to sex too.
> 
> ...


I posted on your first thread but I'm 51, my Mrs. Is 62 and, barring occasional health problems, she can go every day, loves intimacy and sex with me and will initiate at least a couple times a week if I don't.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Melinda82 said:


> I think that's part of the problem with my husband. He's always claimed "laziness" was the reason he would go so long between initiating and why he'd reject my attempts at initiating. He is pretty lazy. And sex takes at least 15 to 20 minutes, during which time he focuses on pleasing me. While I'm guessing getting off to porn takes probably 2 to 5 minutes of complete focus on himself!


He actually admitted all of that?! Wow! I don't think you can do anything about this, he's fundamentally flawed. 

I recall a similar "confession" from my ex at some point, but I don't remember the details, it's been THAT long ago. I got ALL kinds of excuses, tired, headache, feeling stressed, feeling sick, stopped brushing his teeth and showering before bed to put me off. He wasn't too lazy to cheat though, but that's my story. I have no idea if all lazy lovers do that. 

However, the end result is, they're not interested enough in you to overcome laziness and screw you, regardless of the reason. Fast forward a few years and I'm getting all the sex my bf can physically handle, and not sh1tty 15-minute pity lays, either. Looking back, I regret wasting so much time being miserable, waiting for something to change, but I was too stubborn and hopeful. 

You can change things to suit yourself anytime you're ready, but I completely understand it's different when small children are involved.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Yeah not sure what it is. And she never wants to discuss it. Just tells me she needs more from me to be interested in sex but I am never sure what that "it" is? Last time she said No to sex she said she needed more of an emotional connection to me and to feel safe and protected. I thought I was providing that already but maybe I am wrong? I just hear No so often (I am at a 46% success rate lately) that it all blends together.
> 
> Some of you guys are really fortunate as I know you and guys like Big Daddy and Personal have been married long term. I think you have mentioned previously your wife almost never says No to sex too.
> 
> ...


I think they are lies. She has no desire to be with you but she enjoys her lifestyle and you as a friend. You have different perceptions of what a good sex life is and unfortunately both perceptions are correct. You are mismatched. What would really annoy me in your shoes is the lack of honesty.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

We are several posts in on a thread jack here folks. with and active OP so let's open a new thread if you want to continue the discussion.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

@Melinda82 , just out of curiosity, do you benefit from seeing posts about others in similar situations on your thread?


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## Anthony Auko (10 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> I am a 40-year-old woman and have been with my husband since we were teenagers. Our marriage is great in many ways. We enjoy each other's company and work well together taking care of our home and family.
> 
> Until last year, the only issue in our marriage was sex. When we have it, it's amazing. He always climaxes and I usually do as well. The problem is after the initial honeymoon phase, the frequency went down. My husband usually goes between several days to a few weeks between initiating, although he has occasionally gone several weeks or even months. Then he will want sex two or three times in a week before another dry spell. I have always wanted more regular intimacy. I need sex at least once a week to not be miserable (and more often to be happy). Consequently, I have spent quite a lot of the last two decades sexually frustrated. I used to try to initiate, but if he is not already in the mood, he rarely agrees. He's "too tired," his "stomach hurts," or he's "just not thinking about it right now." Even if he does agree, the sex is never as good as it is when he initiates. (However, I never tell him no and enjoy sex just as much if he is the one to put me in the mood.) So I've learned to wait for the mood to strike him. I've put up with it, believing he was just a lower-drive person than me. However, I have had many conversations with him over the years, particularly because when he's not "in the mood," he also doesn't show me much other physical affection (hugging, kissing, touching), leaving me feeling completely neglected, unloved, and undesirable.
> 
> ...


Hi Melinda,
I really feel what you are going through. From my own perspective, I think both you and your husband have come along way and you have lived together ignoring certain habits that have ended up taking your relationship this direction. Its true most of the time, when one and especially men, is addicted to porn, the other person in the relationship will end up being used for satisfaction due to the effects of porn psychologically.
Please don't suffer in this alone, sit down with your hubby and let her know ones more how you feel. I would recommend seeing a specialist to support you and your husband through this. Concluding, let divorce be the last resort when everything has failed. Kindly don't feel like its your mistake over and over again because you will keep living with the guilt for the rest of your life.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's really not been that long. If you've been using porn for years and it's only been 44 days, it's probably too soon to tell a difference. It takes a while to retrain your brain.


That’s true, the last time I stopped it was over 180 days but that was a couple years ago. I didn’t notice anything in particular then either but I had a lot going on.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I've never been a big porn consumer, so perhaps I don't qualify or understand. I just want to know what would "happen" to these people when they give up watching? Like for example, if a guy sought out porn with women that have larger breasts, would he then not like larger breasts on a woman??....or then accept his A cup wife as equally sexually attractive??

not sure I understand the concept...

I still contend that what a lot of women believe about why porn is being used by their husbands is not what they have in mind....The porn just became "the other woman"....for issues that were already there......long before that.....so giving that up, wont have the same effect they believe it will...(ie ...the problem will remain)


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> This idea that somehow you can control and "program" a man by limiting what his eyes can see in the form of pornographic images/videos etc just may wind up being a road to nowhere....Everywhere you turn, be it the internet, television, sports, the workplace, whatever, there are going to be women that look sexy...I'd imagine it's not that much different for women...maybe to a lesser degree, but I dunno..
> 
> Would any woman feel better that he was thinking of the new admin assistant at his work when having sex with his wife, because he gave up porn and such? Because you don't know about it, does that make it better or acceptable??
> 
> I'd say the man that " never looks at any other woman" is a true unicorn...I don't believe that many exist, really...


Seeing a woman at work and watching naked women on porn is hardly the same. We can't stop seeing people in our day to day lives but we can limit things where we know we would see things that aren't helpful for our marriage. So as well as no porn, we can avoid films and TV programmes where we know there will be nudity and sex scenes fir example. We aren't helpless in these things.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Melinda82 said:


> I agree that porn gives men a thrill due to sexual newness and variety. I disagree that if a man uses it less it won't affect his relationship. No matter how infrequently he uses it, no matter if he masturbates to it or not, the man is training his mind and body to get aroused by someone other than his wife. So his wife is less stimulating to him than the wife of a man who never looks at other women.


There is a lot of false information out there about porn "addiction" First of all the "Bible" therapists use called "The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders" has always stated porn use is not an addiction. And, most of the real anti porn stuff online is being put out there by fly by night "therapists" looking to sell books and religious right organizations and has a nasty moralistic bent to it. The truth is if porn was highly addictive most if not all men who watch porn this world would be hopelessly addicted and that is certainly not the case.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Seeing a woman at work and watching naked women on porn is hardly the same. We can't stop seeing people in our day to day lives but we can limit things where we know we would see things that aren't helpful for our marriage. So as well as no porn, we can avoid films and TV programmes where we know there will be nudity and sex scenes for example. We aren't helpless in these things.


Seeing the women in popular malls, or clubs, or beachside, even some shopping, including at the grocery store - is seeing many of them in skintight leggings, tops, shirt shorts, bare bikini line-to-breasts skin showing -there is a lot of weight to the statement that women put sexy forward at any old time. 

I have no opinion. Just stating facts. Yes, I may look, but don't ogle.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I feel like the whole world plays it fast and loose with the word "addicted." "I lack the self control to stop" is not "addiction." And I say that as someone who prefers not to be left alone with an open package of Double Stufs.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Mr B said:


> There is a lot of false information out there about porn "addiction" First of all the "Bible" therapists use called "The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders" has always stated porn use is not an addiction. And, most of the real anti porn stuff online is being put out there by fly by night "therapists" looking to sell books and religious right organizations and has a nasty moralistic bent to it. The truth is if porn was highly addictive most if not all men who watch porn this world would be hopelessly addicted and that is certainly not the case.


Its not really relevant whether they are addicted or not. It's still damaging for them and the marriage. 
However I do think that many men who claim not to be addicted would struggle to stop.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Seeing the women in popular malls, or clubs, or beachside, even some shopping, including at the grocery store - is seeing many of them in skintight leggings, tops, shirt shorts, bare bikini line-to-breasts skin showing -there is a lot of weight to the statement that women put sexy forward at any old time.
> 
> I have no opinion. Just stating facts. Yes, I may look, but don't ogle.


Yes some dress that way, but we can still avoid certain situations where there will be more of that going on.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Yes some dress that way, but we can still avoid certain situations where there will be more of that going on.


I'm gonna play devils advocate. 

What places are to be avoided? Why should any guy or gal avoid those places?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I feel like the whole world plays it fast and loose with the word "addicted." "I lack the self control to stop" is not "addiction." And I say that as someone who prefers not to be left alone with an open package of Double Stufs.


Agreed in a general sense. If you have something chemically addictive enough that the withdrawal symptoms make you violently ill I could see that would be a bit harder to kick than Oreos, but there is something to it.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I'm gonna play devils advocate.
> 
> What places are to be avoided? Why should any guy or gal avoid those places?


Strip clubs. They aren't conducive to a good marriage.


ccpowerslave said:


> Agreed in a general sense. If you have something chemically addictive enough that the withdrawal symptoms make you violently ill I could see that would be a bit harder to kick than Oreos, but there is something to it.


well you are brave and admitted you quit for 180 days. Why did you go back?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Agreed in a general sense. If you have something chemically addictive enough that the withdrawal symptoms make you violently ill I could see that would be a bit harder to kick than Oreos, but there is something to it.


Chemical addiction is addiction. "Oreos are delicious and make me feel happy while I eat them" is not addiction. And "these 23-year-old coked up hookers are way hotter and more exciting to watch than the mother of my children" is also not an addiction.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

ccpowerslave said:


> Agreed in a general sense. If you have something chemically addictive enough that the withdrawal symptoms make you violently ill I could see that would be a bit harder to kick than Oreos, but there is something to it.


Oh and did you ask your wife sincerely if she noticed a difference particularly in the 180 day spell.
While I think the effects vary with the usage, I do think there are effects.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Oh and did you ask your wife sincerely if she noticed a difference particularly in the 180 day spell.
> While I think the effects vary with the usage, I do think there are effects.


I will ask her later, I found out some bad family news today and it’s not really appropriate.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

ccpowerslave said:


> I will ask her later, I found out some bad family news today and it’s not really appropriate.


So sorry about the family news. It can obviously wait. weeks or months if needed. But you seem to be more honest than most so inquiring minds will be waiting.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

Diana7 said:


> Its not really relevant whether they are addicted or not. It's still damaging for them and the marriage.
> However I do think that many men who claim not to be addicted would struggle to stop.


Looking at the line at the bottom of your post it sounds like you are some kind of religious person. I am a lifelong Atheist so, you prove my point about the religious right's prudishness and anti pleasure theocracy putting out false info all over the internet.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I'm gonna play devils advocate.
> 
> What places are to be avoided? Why should any guy or gal avoid those places?


For example not going to a topless beach. Or a nightclub. 
No one has to avoid places or things, it's just if you choose to.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Mr B said:


> Looking at the line at the bottom of your post it sounds like you are some kind of religious person. I am a lifelong Atheist so, you prove my point about the religious right's prudishness and anti pleasure theocracy putting out false info all over the internet.


That made me laugh. 😂It probably wasn't meant to but it did.
There are numerous studies from totally non religious organisations about the harm that porn has on the brain, for children especially. Plus on how it damages marriages and families.
You can have great pleasure without resorting to porn. 😉


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> For example not going to a topless beach. Or a nightclub.
> No one has to avoid places or things, it's just if you choose to.


Or any of the places people on here have said women shouldn’t be allowed to go to for GNO. Avoid those places.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Agreed on this point.
> 
> Still not sure how harmful it is if that isn’t the case. On day 44 of my current experiment (zero porn) so far I do not notice any changes but maybe they’re not easy to notice?


It made a difference with me, but I was having issues that I could only attribute to porn use after I visited a doctor and got a clean bill of health. Not sure if you will notice a difference if there wasn't some symptom of it being an issue


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Porn doesn't give you physical addiction, like addiction to a chemical substance, so it's easy to stop. If you are smart enough, you can stop, no problem. If you can't, visit a shrink, because you are not able to rationalise it in your head...


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Porn doesn't give you physical addiction, like addiction to a chemical substance, so it's easy to stop. If you are smart enough, you can stop, no problem. If you can't, visit a shrink, because you are not able to rationalise it in your head...


Have you ever personally experienced addiction?


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