# Questions about wife's past affair and what it all means



## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

So I don't know how common this is but I thought I would ask here. My wife had various things going on with different men, culminating in an emotional affair which ended 3 years ago. None of these various situations was ever physical as far as I know. I have been able to verify that to some extent but not entirely.

So I found out about all of it at once. I found out about the emotional affair from her coworkers and then the rest came out during the weeks of arguing that followed. So most of the past 3 years has been us arguing over what went on and how responsible she is.

So we've managed to stay together. I got counseling and I eventually stopped trying to fix things and said it was all on her to fix. So to my surprise she has done really well and has pretty much done everything I expected. The one thing she can't seem to do is explain the why's and how's I have about all of it.

So problem one is that I remain just in limbo in terms of trying to get it. She has given different explanations for what happened and they actually add up when looked at in total. But she has also been totally honest and some of what I've found out has been disturbing to me, her honesty I guess is doubled-edged.

Another problem is that she still does not seem to "get" boundaries. I know for sure she is not trying to do anything with other men. But she still allows one in particular to violate boundaries and she seems almost afraid to put a stop to it for stupid social reasons. This seems to be what led to issues before though she says she is not who she was then.

So she is doing what I think needs to be done but there remains that huge "flaw" I guess in how she handles things. I think she is still seeing me also as the guy who has to fix everything instead of fully owning it all herself, though she is now totally honest and has allowed me to check up on anything I want to to be sure.

So to sum up its been a years-long series of inappropriate situations with her and other men. The emotional affair and the other situations never became physical but I am not sure of that, just going by what she and the counselor say. And she still sees me as this guy who needs to "man up" and handle anything including all of this stuff. At the same time, she consistently says she doesn't worry about me doing the same (though she expresses a lot of jealousy when women approach me) because I am a "kind soul" (thus the user name).

So once all this has happened, is it always an ongoing problem? Is what she did always going to be in the back of my mind as long as we're together? What else needs to happen to fix things? Thank you for your time.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

"man up" means exactly the opposite of what she wants you to do...which is to rug sweep what she did.

others with chime in, but in your case you need to have boundaries, and make sure she knows what happens when she goes past what you are ok with.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

imo, you need to read mmslp and set boundaries w/consequences


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

oneMOreguy said:


> make sure she knows what happens when she goes past what you are ok with.


Okay so this is one area I think I've fixed things on my end. In the past, 3 years ago, I was the one begging to fix things and trying to find out what she needed and all that. I think the big shift occurred, in terms of her attitude, when I said if she screws up again then I'm done. 

The guy currently hounding her is not getting anywhere with her, unlike the past guys, but I guess I wish she knew how to just shut it all down. Boot him. But also honestly can't say I see her violating what I said. So she has a boundary, but it's not a great one.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Kind Soul said:


> Okay so this is one area I think I've fixed things on my end. In the past, 3 years ago, I was the one begging to fix things and trying to find out what she needed and all that. I think the big shift occurred, in terms of her attitude, when I said if she screws up again then I'm done.
> 
> The guy currently hounding her is not getting anywhere with her, unlike the past guys, but I guess I wish she knew how to just shut it all down. Boot him. But also honestly can't say I see her violating what I said. So she has a boundary, but it's not a great one.



she does need her own boundaries, but I was referring to yours.....like not putting up with certain behaviors etc. 

she needs to learn to cut things off quickly with guys who are too interested, and also how to make it obvious that approaching her like that would be a mistake


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

oneMOreguy said:


> she does need her own boundaries, but I was referring to yours.....like not putting up with certain behaviors etc.
> 
> she needs to learn to cut things off quickly with guys who are too interested, and also how to make it obvious that approaching her like that would be a mistake


Yes, that's what I meant so I agree. In the past I would put up with a lot of this and try to fix it all, if that makes sense? So she had these guys and these situations and I would think that I had really screwed up and beg her to tell me what to do.

After a while I figured out that that would be no good. I told her if anything like this goes on again, we're done and she can start over on her own, something which terrified her I admit. 

So that's when her change came about and she became pretty much a great wife. Except for that one big thing I mentioned, which is that her boundaries remain not great. She tries to "nice" her way out of these guys hitting on her, when really I want it to be like you say, approaching her that way would be a mistake.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Kind Soul said:


> My wife had various things going on with different men, culminating in an emotional affair which ended 3 years ago. None of these various situations was ever physical as far as I know.





Kind Soul said:


> Another problem is that she still does not seem to "get" boundaries. I know for sure she is not trying to do anything with other men. But she still allows one in particular to violate boundaries and she seems almost afraid to put a stop to it for stupid social reasons.





Kind Soul said:


> The guy currently hounding her is not getting anywhere with her, unlike the past guys, but I guess I wish she knew how to just shut it all down. Boot him. But also honestly can't say I see her violating what I said. So she has a boundary, but it's not a great one.


 The common factor of your issues with your wife is that she keeps other men in her life that are seeking inappropriate relationship with her. As a married person their should be no such other men in her life period. There can no ifs or buts about it. If she needs to be rude to them in order to be able to honor the normal boundaries of marriage, so be it. Allowing these other men to disrespect your marriage and thus you, is in fact being very rude to you. The real problem with your marriage is that she is addicted to male attention and the brain drug rush that it gives her. You need to treat her as an addict and be strong in enforcing your martial boundaries.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

kind soul said:


> the guy currently hounding her is not getting anywhere with her, unlike the past guys, but i guess i wish she knew how to just shut it all down. Boot him. But also honestly can't say i see her violating what i said. So she has a boundary, but it's not a great one.


shut it down for her. Set the boundary for her. End.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Reasonable boundaries are important for any marriage, though what is reasonable varies from couple to couple. Having opposite sex friends is one example. For some couples that's reasonable and other couples, not.

But when a spouse cheats, that's a whole new ballgame. Whatever your boundaries were before she cheated, have to be re-set after cheating. Reasonable is now defined differently - based on what she has proven to be capable of.

Sit her down and have a talk. Explain to her what is acceptable to you and what is not. If after a fair discussion, she doesn't accept these re-set boundaries; ultimately the only ammunition you really have - is divorce.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

badmemory said:


> Reasonable boundaries are important for any marriage, though what is reasonable varies from couple to couple. Having opposite sex friends is one example. For some couples that's reasonable and other couples, not.


 Although many couples do not have boundaries that allow for opposite sex friends (OSF), of the ones that do allow for OSF, most require that the OSF be a friend of the spouse as well as the marriage. Since the wife's OSF are neither friends of the spouse or the marriage, her relationships with these other men would be breaking a marital boundaries in most marriages.


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

TRy said:


> Although many couples do not have boundaries that allow for opposite sex friends (OSF), of the ones that do allow for OSF, most require that the OSF be a friend of the spouse as well as the marriage. Since the wife's OSF are neither friends of the spouse or the marriage, her relationships with these other men would be breaking a marital boundaries in most marriages.


Yeah they are definitely not "our" friends. Her model for a long time was the whole office-spouse thing, and of course these guys would inevitably try to turn it sexual. One may have succeeded but I don't know.

The others were supervisors who didn't have pretense of being friendly but pretty much just demanded sexual favors. They did less well though only by sheer good luck for me. 

It's stuff like that that makes getting over this still difficult 3 years on and after counseling, but I guess it could have been much worse given what she's told me.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

How would she like it if you had rotten boundaries?

She does not have a good track record. 

Has she gone to counseling to get better boundaries?


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Kind Soul said:


> I found out about the emotional affair from her coworkers...





> She has given different explanations for what happened and they actually add up when looked at in total. But she has also been totally honest and some of what I've found out has been disturbing to me, her honesty I guess is doubled-edged.





> But she still allows one in particular to violate boundaries and she seems almost afraid to put a stop to it for stupid social reasons.


Would you mind elaborating on these, please?


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

azteca1986 said:


> Would you mind elaborating on these, please?


Sure, I don't know what all I can say here. Ask me whatever you want though.

I found out she was having (what I later was told was) an emotional affair when her coworkers told me. They ended up helping me a lot by telling me. But they didn't do it to be nice but to humiliate me. 

One woman had a husband who wasn't doing well in business, but I was. She said to me if I'm so great then why does my wife have a boyfriend? Then she and others elaborated on what they'd seen. So that led to the first confrontation which eventually led to me learning about the rest. But my wife first emotionally abused me for a while, trying to end the marriage.

As to what she told me, she's tried to give explanations to me about why she did what she did. Overall they make sense but remain really disturbing to me. Mostly finding out what she did but moreso what she would have done. 

For example a supervisor said he wanted her to do certain things for him, she agreed and would have had he not been transferred so soon after, plus his religion kept him from acting right away though he could have. Things like that that stick with me. But by telling me that she knows there's no going back, she's been found out, so it's also been a good thing in a way, I realize now.

Explaining the other guy who is currently harassing her, there is a man in her social circle who has pursued her for sex. Not a friend of her's but an SO of her friend. So she has shot him down but has not made him go away, which is because she's trying to keep everyone friends. But still he's around, saying really blatant things and in one case directly trying to get her to do something. This has caused us more fights than anything recently, which is why I came here. I can't make her understand.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

I am a kind soul as well, But if a man comes on to me & he knows I'm married. I take that as an insult to my husband & I have no problem telling him so.. It's also been my experience that you don't get approached unless you're putting out signals..


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Kind Soul said:


> So I don't know how common this is but I thought I would ask here. *My wife had various things going on with different men, culminating in an emotional affair which ended 3 years ago.* None of these various situations was ever physical as far as I know. I have been able to verify that to some extent but not entirely.
> 
> So I found out about all of it at once. I found out about the emotional affair from her coworkers and then the rest came out during the weeks of arguing that followed. So most of the past 3 years has been us arguing over what went on and how responsible she is.
> 
> ...





Kind Soul said:


> Okay so this is one area I think I've fixed things on my end. In the past, 3 years ago, I was the one begging to fix things and trying to find out what she needed and all that. *I think the big shift occurred, in terms of her attitude, when I said if she screws up again then I'm done. *
> 
> The guy currently hounding her is not getting anywhere with her, unlike the past guys, but *I guess I wish she knew how to just shut it all down. Boot him.* But also honestly can't say I see her violating what I said. So she has a boundary, but it's not a great one.





Kind Soul said:


> Yes, that's what I meant so I agree. *In the past I would put up with a lot of this and try to fix it all, if that makes sense? So she had these guys and these situations and I would think that I had really screwed up and beg her to tell me what to do.
> 
> After a while I figured out that that would be no good. I told her if anything like this goes on again, we're done and she can start over on her own, something which terrified her I admit. *
> 
> *So that's when her change came about and she became pretty much a great wife. Except for that one big thing I mentioned, which is that her boundaries remain not great. She tries to "nice" her way out of these guys hitting on her, when really I want it to be like you say, approaching her that way would be a mistake.*


Dear Kind Soul,

What am I missing here? Above, I've bolded

- in black the parts of several of your posts that describe your WW's infidelity,

- in blue how you got her to address that problem mostly to your satisfaction and

- in red what you describe as the lingering problem of her poor boundaries.

Here's what I don't get. If you could get your WW to own up to her cheating and do _"pretty much everything"_ that you expected of her by ceasing to be the _'fixer'_ in your marriage and giving her what amounted to an ultimatum -- _"if anything like this goes on again, we're done"_ -- why can't you get her to maintain proper boundaries by making the same threat? Does she ignore you when it come to _'boundaries'_ with other men or have you just not given her a strong a message?

You ask if this is always going to be a problem. The answer is, yes, if you don't tell her precisely what you want from her, tell her what the consequences will be if she fails, and then deliver those consequences every time she fails. Of course, it's possible that, even if you do these things, the problem may persist. She just may be one of those people who for whatever reason cannot control themselves. But until you deliver a tough message and she starts getting consequences for inappropriate interactions with other men, there is no reason to expect her behavior to change.

BTW, you don't mention having children. If you don't, then I would recommend that you reconsider your decision to reconcile with her. If a spouse cheats and then continues to display poor boundaries when it comes to members of the opposite sex, there is a heightened chance of future infidelities. If there are no children to protect, why subject yourself to this risk? Why not simply end this relationship and look for a woman who does need to flirt with other men?

Hope this helps you think through your problem.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

I would simply suggest that you "BOTH" do counselling "TOGETHER".

You mention her supervisors demanding sexual favours, women who are not open to that kind of behaviour do not have such an issue, women who are conscious of other men and their intentions are wise and clever enough to make it clear they are not interested. Men who make advances on women(unless it is severe harassment or rape) only do so if they have a feeling that the advance will be reciprocated or it is encouraged.

If you have a list of prior misdemeanours and after 3yrs you are still drifitng on the limbo log in the middle of the atlantic, it is time to sink or swim.

Take it from me(sorry to say a guy whos been there and done that) bail and get on with your life at the very next boundary breach, trust me, it really can be a whole lot worse than you think, how do you know for sure how far it went with these guys??? Her word for it? Seems you have reason enough to believe her a liar.

Stop being a puzzy and whip her into touch or bail and find a real woman who aint gonna dis you on a daily basis.


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

carmen ohio said:


> Dear Kind Soul,
> 
> What am I missing here? Above, I've bolded
> 
> ...


Well actually it does help me so thanks for writing it out. I think for me the issue now is that what she continues to do is far short of what she did before. But it's enough to make me worried. So it's stuff that would be okay under a normal marriage, but not for me given that she did this other stuff in the past. 

So basically she hangs with her friend. They drink and smoke together, swim together--sun, fun, bbq's, parties, and all that. We're in a warm state, that stuff ended like two weeks ago and will return in March or so.

But her friend's husband will come around when she's there or when they're out together, usually drunk and high (he is) and will say things. He will say things to me about her. Once he made a move. She reacts appropriately by shutting him down, unlike what came before. 

I don't blame her for him, but I do blame her for being around him, and especially for subjecting me to it. He's a burnout while I'm very high achieving despite the depression I suffered during this past 3 years. So throwing down with him would cost me quite a bit. I don't want to get into the details of that.

So I have blown up at her pretty good. I want him gone, she does not want to give up her friends or her social life. She feels as long as she shuts him down each time then so what, which I admit she does. I feel like given she came close to going to bed with just about anyone who asked for several years, she doesn't even get that much leeway.

I admit that you're right in what you say, why don't I force the issue? I guess that's why I'm here, I want feedback that says I'm right to react even though this is mild compared to what went on before. Does that make sense?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Kind Soul said:


> Her model for a long time was the whole office-spouse thing, and of course these guys would inevitably try to turn it sexual. One may have succeeded but I don't know.


 The whole "office-spouse thing" is only for single people. It is not suppose to be for married people anymore than dating someone other than your spouse is.



Kind Soul said:


> The others were supervisors who didn't have pretense of being friendly but pretty much just demanded sexual favors. They did less well though only by sheer good luck for me.


 Why does it take "sheer good luck" for you for your wife not to give "sexual favors" to her supervisors at work? When it comes to not have sex with other men, luck should have nothing to do with it. Please give details on what happened that required this so called good luck.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Devastated an lost said:


> I am a kind soul as well, But if a man comes on to me & he knows I'm married. I take that as an insult to my husband & I have no problem telling him so..


Loyalty is a wonderful trait in a spouse. Sometimes, as here, it needs to come in the form not of faithful old labrador, but a rabid rottweiler. 

I explained to my wife that when she gets hit on by men, they don't see the wonderful woman I do and then preceded to list her best qualities (not mentioning her looks). They see - Potential Adulterous Wh0re. So she should deal with them accordingly. I'm happy if her primary feeling is of being affronted that anyone should talk to her in that way.



Kind Soul said:


> So I have blown up at her pretty good. I want him gone, she does not want to give up her friends or her social life. *She feels as long as she shuts him down each time* then so what, which I admit she does. I feel like given she came close to going to bed with just about anyone who asked for several years, she doesn't even get that much leeway.


Shutting him down effectively would mean there never would be a next time. Anything other than the type of response that begins "Don't ever fvcking speak to me like that again..." can send the message that he can keep on trying. Do you suspect that your wife doesn't really mind these advances (especially bearing in mind her patchy track record)? If she wanted this problem to go away, she'd find a way.

Also curious to know what her friend makes of her husband hitting on your wife. Is she not aware?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Something different...

I understand wanting her to shut it down herself. My W mate guards well enough, but in certain social situations see just freezes and can use my help to wrap it up before it turns into something disastrous for all parties. Especially with an a$$ like your W's girlfriend's H. I can see, rightfully so, you're so resentful of what happened you want her to do it alone, to prove she can protect you. But there are times where a man needs to step in. I don't mean fix it for her, I mean in a display of solidarity... Mate Guarding

BTW, If that's what you're describing. High-times is a lifestyle where boundaries easily drop?


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

TRy said:


> The whole "office-spouse thing" is only for single people. It is not suppose to be for married people anymore than dating someone other than your spouse is.
> 
> Why does it take "sheer good luck" for you for your wife not to give "sexual favors" to her supervisors at work? When it comes to not have sex with other men, luck should have nothing to do with it. Please give details on what happened that required this so called good luck.


No I know being an office spouse is iffy, I never approved of the whole thing. I never knew. Remember that I learned about all of this, 10 years worth of it, within a few weeks. So it was never an okay thing with me, I didn't know. All I knew was that she was jealous that I might do these things, while she did them all along.

I tried to describe some of what went on with her supervisors. Usually it was a boss saying something dirty, like some men will. But she wouldn't push back or shut it down, so it would continue and get worse. This happened with multiple different men.

In one case her boss's boss came to the site and said something sexual to her, I don't know what I'm allowed to say here, but then it escalated from there. He eventually made clear that when they went for conferences he wanted to have sex with her. Made a lot of demands, which she admits now she agreed to. He told her what he wanted, how it would go, he wanted things his way, he wanted to see a receipt for her b.c. so she wouldn't get pregnant. She told me all this and repeated to our counselor when I asked her to.

So he told her later on that he was LDS, he couldn't do that with her without betraying his family, which she also told me about in counseling. He couldn't go through with it, he was annointed or something that I didn't understand. So he came back a few days later, said he would want her to do some things with him but not others, she agreed but was upset with him in some way I don't get. Then he was transferred to another region which was effectively him being let go, so he moved and then quit not too long after.

That's an example of what I mean. So the obvious issues are that she's been honest about it. But also that she agreed to do what he and others wanted. There was a guy who wanted her to come to his poker nights for him. So on and so forth. But in each situation it was either the guy leaving or us leaving that kept it from happening. I was able to verify all of these situations but one. This was by what had been written, emailed, texted. The ones I can't verify are the emotional affair guy who I still think she may have slept with, plus bosses she had so far back that I have no records to check.

I have told her I believe she slept with her affair partner. She still denies she did and I'm inclined to believe her but at the same time I doubt it. But I told her I thought that and she has said that she wishes sometimes she had since I treat her like that kind of woman and she wishes she got the pleasure of doing it. So that set me off but I didn't bring it up in counseling. By that time I was seeing the counselor on my own and more for depression that for her infidelity, though we talked a lot about both. Sometimes I think she did something with him but not all he wanted or something, she seems to rely on those distinctions sometimes. But I can't prove it because she was right nextdoor to him at work so never texted or emailed except for large attached files. But I looked high and low to try and find out.

I'm not trying to be standoffish I just don't know what I can write here. But anyone can ask me I don't care. Understand that I consider what she did 100% bad, as if she had slept around, and if I ever find out she has done even halfway to having a work guy again I'll leave. I told her this and told her at my age I can start over, but she will have a heck of time finding a guy like me. She says she knows.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Kind Soul

I only have three questions for you?

How old are you two and do you have any kids?

Why are you still with her?

M


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

azteca1986 said:


> Do you suspect that your wife doesn't really mind these advances (especially bearing in mind her patchy track record)? If she wanted this problem to go away, she'd find a way.
> 
> Also curious to know what her friend makes of her husband hitting on your wife. Is she not aware?


I don't suspect she likes the attention and advances, she's said she does. But she says she can end them then and there as they arise. Which she has for the past several years including when I saw but she didn't know I saw. But yes she likes it and she likes certain types of men. I don't write that out easily, it's some of those details I learned from her, from our counseling, and relayed to me by our old counselor.

I don't understand her friend. I don't get her reactions at all. Not sure what to do about that. It's a weird group to begin with, it's hard to explain what they are but they aren't my kind of people, which my wife resents.


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

happyman64 said:


> Kind Soul
> 
> I only have three questions for you?
> 
> ...


No kids, 30s both of us, I love her and she isn't how she was before. She has changed a lot. She is honest and goes out of her way to do what I need.


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## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

A husband has an obligation to protect his wife from any and all perils. How could you let this individual and any others, continue to harass your wife, especially in your presence?

I understand why this and other marriage and relationship sites cannot permit the advocacy of violence but you should at the very least and I mean absolute least let the joker know he will not only be unsuccessful with your wife but will likely be physically unable with his own.

Just sayin',

Seasalt


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

So do you feel she has changed fundamentally or do you feel she is still capable of her previous behavior. I mean excepting this one guy she can't turn down. In other words, she is changed except she is still to "accepting" of this guys advances.

If she can't shut this guy down what makes you believe she can shut any other guy down?


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

NoChoice said:


> So do you feel she has changed fundamentally or do you feel she is still capable of her previous behavior. I mean excepting this one guy she can't turn down. In other words, she is changed except she is still to "accepting" of this guys advances.
> 
> If she can't shut this guy down what makes you believe she can shut any other guy down?


I don't know if she's changed fundamentally or not. I think this could still happen. That's been part of her honesty, is admitting this is always a risk. Not that she wants it, but that this stuff happens when people get too close that way.

She shuts him down, just not permanently. So what I mean is, she waits til he does something, then just denies him. Walks away then. But she doesn't complain to her friend (his SO) or cut herself off from them entirely. This is what bothers me.

So she'll go back the next time, smoke with them again, maybe drink, then sun herself or go in the pool. Then if he says something, she shuts it down. The time he made a move on her, she pushed him off of her and moved away. But there's always the next time.

So I'm not doubting her ability or intention to shut him down. It's my worry that there is always another chance for him. Because he'll be there or wherever they go to hang out. She wants to end the situation each time it comes up, I want her to end it for good.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Kind Soul said:


> Okay so this is one area I think I've fixed things on my end. In the past, 3 years ago, I was the one begging to fix things and trying to find out what she needed and all that. I think the big shift occurred, in terms of her attitude, when I said if she screws up again then I'm done.
> 
> The guy currently hounding her is not getting anywhere with her, unlike the past guys, but I guess I wish she knew how to just shut it all down. Boot him. But also honestly can't say I see her violating what I said. So she has a boundary, but it's not a great one.


Out him on Cheaterville.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Kind Soul said:


> In one case her boss's boss came to the site and said something sexual to her, I don't know what I'm allowed to say here, but then it escalated from there. He eventually made clear that when they went for conferences he wanted to have sex with her. Made a lot of demands, which she admits now she agreed to. He told her what he wanted, how it would go, he wanted things his way, he wanted to see a receipt for her b.c. so she wouldn't get pregnant.


 On what planet does a wife think that it is OK to agree to have sex with a boss when they "went for conferences", and to show this boss "receipt for her b.c." so that the sex can be unprotected? What would make her say OK to this when she had a husband with a job so she knew that she was not going to be throw onto the streets if he fired her? The fact that this boss was soon force out, shows that it would not have even been good for her career. Also, why did she not tell you about these things so that you could help her deal with them? One of her issues is that this boss treated her like she was a prostitute and she liked it.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Kind Soul said:


> So she'll go back the next time, smoke with them again, maybe drink, then sun herself or go in the pool. Then if he says something, she shuts it down. The time he made a move on her, she pushed him off of her and moved away. But there's always the next time.


 Given the history with this other man, she is deliberately going over to their home to "sun herself or go in the pool" because she gets off on turning him on. The real question is, why do you tolerate her going over there, and why he is even still in her life?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
I think your wife is walking a very narrow wire with this other guy. Why does the other guy's wife not say something? Why do you not speak to him? Familiarity breeds contempt my friend. Is your wife that needing of some sort of validation that she needs to string this guy out like this?

All it takes is one time her not pushing him away. Seems like a dangerous game she is playing with your marriage.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Tell her to quit this job since she clearly cannot handle it. MAKE her leave. 

Next, file a sexual harrasment lawsuit against the company naming every single guy who came on to her.

Next, while I don’t like them, time for a polygraph for her.


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

What planet do you and your wife live in, Kind Soul?

1 - You state that you've discovered about your wife letting virtually anybody hit on her without ever shutting them down for 10 years or so at her office, that she agreed (verbally I guess) to peform sexual favors for several different men over those 10 years, but nevertheless you are sure that nothing physical ever happened (except maybe once)? Did I get that right? It doesn't sound very logical, does it?
2 - You report that your wife readily agreed to be the boss' personal w****, without any real benefit for her, but then nothing happened for obscure "religious" motivations? how does this work? Why do you want to be with a woman who would act like this? Why does she still work there? Why do you think this is in any way near normal?
3 - Your wife's friend's husband hits on her before you and his wife and nothing happen? Again, on which planet? Why do you let her hang with them? Why do you stand there yourself without reacting. You said he says things about your wife to YOU... If someone behaved like that with me and my wife he would be looking for his teeth all over the place...

IDK, this sounds like a Playboy version of a Twilight Zone episode :scratchhead:


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

italianjob said:


> What planet do you and your wife live in, Kind Soul?
> 
> 1 - You state that you've discovered about your wife letting virtually anybody hit on her without ever shutting them down for 10 years or so at her office, that she agreed (verbally I guess) to peform sexual favors for several different men over those 10 years, but nevertheless you are sure that nothing physical ever happened (except maybe once)? Did I get that right? It doesn't sound very logical, does it?
> 2 - You report that your wife readily agreed to be the boss' personal w****, without any real benefit for her, but then nothing happened for obscure "religious" motivations? how does this work? Why do you want to be with a woman who would act like this? Why does she still work there? Why do you think this is in any way near normal?
> ...


Thanks for commenting, but there are some misconceptions that you and others have that I should clear up. These are my fault because I've been unclear.

One, she is no longer at that job. So these particular men are not an issue. The bosses who hit on her did so far apart during the course of 10 years. 

The one man she was involved with was her emotional affair partner, who she was with when she left that job and we left the area.

I was able to verify most of the more recent men as having not done anything physical with her. The ones I can't verify go back to far for me to verify, eg no records and in one case far enough back she wasn't even texting yet.

I don't know why she agreed to do what she did for her one boss, really her boss's boss. I don't understand that. I have asked her many times, on my own and in counseling. She doesn't know, says she was in a phase, thought he was attractive, changed her mind as soon as he talked about his faith and family. It's not a good answer but the one I have.

She did none of this for any promotion or anything like that. When I asked her about that, she was disgusted by the idea. I know it makes no sense, but when I ask if she would have done this for personal gain, she says no way. When I ask why then, she says it would have been for the experience of doing it. Then she asks forgiveness again, as always, and tells me it will never happen again.

Well I'm embarrassed that I haven't done anything when it comes to the current guy. I want to say I have had the right idea about what to do, but most of it has not been what I'm used to at all. I'm not used to even the idea of walking up to a married woman and saying these things to her. I was also deeply in depression for which I got professional help when I first learned that this was going on. I only recently stopped going to weekly counseling for both her infidelity and for depression/anxiety. I haven't been myself for a long time, though I would probably never handle any of it by simply attacking him for several reasons.

I mean ask me whatever you want that's unclear, I'm doing my best to explain and to understand why my life is where it is now. But I only recently woke up from a 3 year depression and I don't really have a clear view of things.


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

Kind Soul said:


> Thanks for commenting, but there are some misconceptions that you and others have that I should clear up. These are my fault because I've been unclear.
> 
> One, she is no longer at that job. So these particular men are not an issue. The bosses who hit on her did so far apart during the course of 10 years.
> 
> ...


Well, KS, I think your wife has been missing your "presence" as a man. All of her inappropriate behaviors seem to be designed to ignite a reaction in you to "man up" or to be some "domination" fantasy, "sex slave to the boss" being the most blatant one.

Personally, I wouldn't want to stay with a woman who would, even verbally, agree with what she agreed to do with the boss, whatever motivation was behind it, but I think if you really want to go on in your relationship with her, you need to "demand" boundaries and their respect, because I feel that's what she expects from you, and what she needs to respect you. 
JMO, of course.


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

italianjob said:


> Well, KS, I think your wife has been missing your "presence" as a man. All of her inappropriate behaviors seem to be designed to ignite a reaction in you to "man up" or to be some "domination" fantasy, "sex slave to the boss" being the most blatant one.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't want to stay with a woman who would, even verbally, agree with what she agreed to do with the boss, whatever motivation was behind it, but I think if you really want to go on in your relationship with her, you need to "demand" boundaries and their respect, because I feel that's what she expects from you, and what she needs to respect you.
> JMO, of course.


I think so too. Last time we were around the current guy who's after her, she thought she saw me get mad at something he said. I didn't and hadn't been paying attention. But she was really into the idea that I'd gotten upset and reacted. So I'm sure she needs some kind of jealous reaction from me in addition to the attention she seems to need from all these guys. But I still think there is a huge difference from how she is now vs. how she was when this was really going on and she had her affair.


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

Kind Soul said:


> I think so too. Last time we were around the current guy who's after her, she thought she saw me get mad at something he said. I didn't and hadn't been paying attention. But she was really into the idea that I'd gotten upset and reacted. So I'm sure she needs some kind of jealous reaction from me in addition to the attention she seems to need from all these guys. But I still think there is a huge difference from how she is now vs. how she was when this was really going on and she had her affair.


It sounds like what she's really seeking here is your reaction, more than the attention. She obviously likes the attention but I think she wants you to step up and make her respect boundaries. It actually sounds like she needs this, more than just wanting.


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

italianjob said:


> It sounds like what she's really seeking here is your reaction, more than the attention. She obviously likes the attention but I think she wants you to step up and make her respect boundaries. It actually sounds like she needs this, more than just wanting.


Yes, the way she's risked our marriage just to keep me reacting seems to bear that out. This is very different from the past where she hid so much from me, but is also very hard to deal with. I hate hearing all this from her but need to at the same time. But I think it's the combination of male attention (now) and my reactions, when I get jealous of anything else or react at all, she just gets annoyed. 

But I'm not sure how to get her to respect boundaries when we've fought over this 100 times in 3 years and she still slides right back to doing this, letting some things get said and hoping I hear or whatever her m.o. is now. 

I can get why my reactions are so important to her now. During my depression I pretty much sat in a room and zoned out for a long time. She hated my passivity, so now I think she seeks out things that get me to react strongly. But I let this go on a long time simply because I was too depressed to react before. It really took a lot out of both of us.


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

Kind Soul said:


> Yes, the way she's risked our marriage just to keep me reacting seems to bear that out. This is very different from the past where she hid so much from me, but is also very hard to deal with. I hate hearing all this from her but need to at the same time. But I think it's the combination of male attention (now) and my reactions, when I get jealous of anything else or react at all, she just gets annoyed.
> 
> But I'm not sure how to get her to respect boundaries when we've fought over this 100 times in 3 years and she still slides right back to doing this, letting some things get said and hoping I hear or whatever her m.o. is now.
> 
> I can get why my reactions are so important to her now. During my depression I pretty much sat in a room and zoned out for a long time. She hated my passivity, so now I think she seeks out things that get me to react strongly. But I let this go on a long time simply because I was too depressed to react before. It really took a lot out of both of us.


Did you overcome your depression? Have you found out what were the inner reasons you became depressed?
It looks like she wants to be with a strong man, someone who somehow can "dominate" her and it looks like you're having a hard time keeping up with this kind of behavior. Do you think this had a role in your depression, or your depression changed your dynamics to what it is now?
At the moment it sounds like you two are not very much compatible to tell the truth...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You know the best kind of jealous reaction for your child(ish) bride? Being served with divorce papers.

And when I referred to her as a child(ish) bride I wasn't being insulting toward your wife but stating what I see as her reality.

She is acting like a child of 15 using other boys to make her boyfriend feel jealous.

She needs to woman up and become a woman and stop bring a naughty little girl.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

I had a similar feeling MattMatt, somnetimes childen act up for attention because negative attetion is better than no attention.

KS I think she will find some re-assurance and security in a more dominant "YOU". 

Not being jerk but a man who is confident and leads!


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Kind Soul said:


> Sure, I don't know what all I can say here. Ask me whatever you want though.
> 
> I found out she was having (what I later was told was) an emotional affair when her coworkers told me. They ended up helping me a lot by telling me. But they didn't do it to be nice but to humiliate me.
> 
> ...


Aren't you part of this social circle? What do you go out separately? Where are you when another man is trying to bang your wife? 

Even now that you know have you had a word with him?

When another man is trying to bang your wife (in this social circle) don't her other friends (in this social circle) warn her off? Do they watch? Are they your friends as well?


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

BobSimmons said:


> Aren't you part of this social circle? What do you go out separately? Where are you when another man is trying to bang your wife?
> 
> Even now that you know have you had a word with him?
> 
> When another man is trying to bang your wife (in this social circle) don't her other friends (in this social circle) warn her off? Do they watch? Are they your friends as well?


No I am not really part of her circle. I'm not liked within that group. Early on when she was still in the mode of going all scorched earth and trying to destroy me emotionally, she told all of her friends what a pos i am and how I led her to do this and that, how I overreact to nothing. She of course wasn't telling them the truth.

Since then she's tried to make it up to me, tried to build me up to them. But first impressions stick. So I'm not really liked at all by them. I'm the stick in the mud that thinks men hanging around making apes of themselves and doing stupid things to entertain the group, while drunk, stoned, half naked women lay by the pool and cheer them on is lame after 22 or so. They mostly disagree.

I don't get this group though, why how this man acts is considered just fine to them. I mean they don't say anything or react at all. And it's not like he's nice to everyone, he's pretty much a d-bag to all of them but no one says a thing.

So yes to answer one of your questions, she goes out alone most of the time when it comes to them, they're her friends. I stay in or do my own thing. About once a month she wants me to attend a more couples oriented event with them and that's when we end up fighting a ton, because he says or does something, or challenges me in a nicey nice way. And she ends up liking the whole situation, but not liking me trying to do anything, I guess I'm supposed to stew silently which she likes, she likes my nostrils flaring she says. I don't really get it but while I was so depressed it was the least of my problems. Now that I'm back on my feet again for the first time in years, I'm starting to react to all of this in a more typical way I guess.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Kind Soul said:


> No I am not really part of her circle. I'm not liked within that group. Early on when she was still in the mode of going all scorched earth and trying to destroy me emotionally, she told all of her friends what a pos i am and how I led her to do this and that, how I overreact to nothing. She of course wasn't telling them the truth.
> 
> Since then she's tried to make it up to me, tried to build me up to them. But first impressions stick. So I'm not really liked at all by them. I'm the stick in the mud that thinks men hanging around making apes of themselves and doing stupid things to entertain the group, while drunk, stoned, half naked women lay by the pool and cheer them on is lame after 22 or so. They mostly disagree.
> 
> ...


She loves the attention and agression you show. 

Some women like their men to fight for them, and win them as if it were a competition.

Question is, are you going to put up with that type of behavior?

You have to draw a line on how far you are willing to go, and she is baiting yyou across that line.

Your dancing to her tune.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

You can potentially retire on the lawsuit if your wife just gathers the necessary evidence of sexual harassment at its extreme!

This company she works for since to have come straight out of the 60's and 70's! Nail these a$$holes a$$e$ to the wall!

And your wife seems to have very weak boundaries, self-esteem and confidence. You need to work on this!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Then she must change her social circle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

OP, I think you are the one with the boundary problem here. A lot has been brought up about your wife's lack of boundaries. 

You're wife has a thing for other men - wants attention and validation. Validation is a very powerful drug. She wants to be fought over. "Lets you and him fight." Is she really that much of a prize? 

You are living in some limbo hell because you choose to put up with this shyte. As I read it, your wife's social life and relationship with her POSOM orbiters is more important to her than you. Is this working for you? Is this the life you want? 

You don't have to stop the current OM. That's her job and she's not doing it. That tells you everything. Her boundaries are shyte too.

I hate when women tell men to "man up." They have no clue what that means. Not. a. clue.

Hoss, 1st step is deciding what you will accept and what you will not. 
2nd step is to start making the life you want. 

More to follow.

HL


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Kind Soul said:


> No I am not really part of her circle. I'm not liked within that group. Early on when she was still in the mode of going all scorched earth and trying to destroy me emotionally, she told all of her friends what a pos i am and how I led her to do this and that, how I overreact to nothing. She of course wasn't telling them the truth.
> 
> Since then she's tried to make it up to me, tried to build me up to them. But first impressions stick. So I'm not really liked at all by them. I'm the stick in the mud that thinks men hanging around making apes of themselves and doing stupid things to entertain the group, while drunk, stoned, half naked women lay by the pool and cheer them on is lame after 22 or so. They mostly disagree.
> 
> ...


Point is your wife goes out with these people and there's another man trying to bang her and they are doing nothing, and so are you. They are not friends of the marriage, ironically neither is the guy trying to bang your wife..

You're letting your wife go out alone and there's another guy trying to bang her. 

You do notice I'm using a lot of there's another guy actively trying to have sex with your wife and you're letting her go out alone while you sit at home and complain, even when you were at an event and the guy was there, most probably talking to your wife right in front of you and you kept your mouth shut.

No respect for yourself. No respect from the wife. And this guy certainly doesn't respect you.

Social circle=man trying to bang your wife=issues with trust.


I wonder what the solution could be?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Good to see you're working hard towards a better life. Have you discussed your boundaries with you therapist? 

Boundaries in Marriage

With or without your W, don't you think your women want a whole man? Are you familiar with this...

NMMNG

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Best


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

I read your words in post #35, a 3yr depression and you are still unclear.

Holy S4!T, welcome to the "FOG", either bail and move on asap or enjoy years more of this horse s4!t, it does not get any better, if you woke up from the depression then get rid of the biggest single element that put you into it in the first place "HER", the process of R is not one for you if you became depressed and are finally through it after 3yrs, I would give you another year of bimble in the new fog and you will be depressed again or suicidal as you will begin to over process the past, she has no doubt moved on and will not want to go through it all and have it dredged up over and over again while you try to find meaning in it all.

If you really did wake up then you know getting out and getting on with your life is the right thing to do.

Second guessing will eat you alive, did she really push off her GFs BF? Is it just good cover to tell you so you think she's being good while she is really getting slammed hard on the sun lounger or boned in the pool by him whilst her GF is in the house making drinks, how do you know she is not hitting on him? Makes me wonder if she blows under water to try to get him hotter for her and all behind the back of someone who is trusting them to just "get along".


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Look OP,
I wrote a thread about how underdeveloped intellect causes this behavior in the vast majority of cases and this example is no exception. When people decide to marry that decision is life altering and should be made with serious thought and soul searching. Many factors must be considered and weighed as to their value and how their loss will be compensated for by being in a monogamous, secure relationship.

For instance, as a young adult we get into the "party" scene and the bars and the social groups to A: socialize and meet people. B: have fun (if you consider getting smashed and doing crazy stuff, most of which you can't remember later, fun) C: to engage in the courtship ritual and find a mate. There are other reasons but for the sake of this point these will suffice.

So now your wife has done all of that and then "decided" to get married and raise a family. However, instead of the deep, serious thought I mentioned above, it was more like "hey that sounds like fun, let's get married". Not a good foundation to build a life on. At this point, because of her inability to think this through, she is now back to her high school, college days of partying and fun because the "fun" that she envisioned marriage to be has faded in the reality of it and the reality of it is a far cry from the version that was playing in her immature mind.

She has failed to grow up and make logical, rational choices, not so much because she won't but rather she can't, her intellect is not capable. And since her intellect is underdeveloped she looks to you for discipline just like a child looks to a parent. How many times have you seen children "test" their parents, pushing the envelope until the parent finally lowers the hammer and disciplines them? Your wife is "testing" you to see what she can get away with.

Why is a married woman with a child going out partying, getting drunk and acting like a teenager with no thought of the unintended consequences. What if, God forbid, one night on the way home she smashes into a tree and is killed, now her daughter has no mother? Or what if she is just paralyzed and now needs constant care? Or what if she hits another car and kills someone else's child? All real world possibilities but have they crossed your wife's immature mind, I dare say no.

She is only concerned about herself and her fun as is any child. So, it falls to you to be her "parent" and set boundaries for her like curfew and what friends she is allowed to hang with and when. And when she accuses you of being controlling, as every teenager has done to their parents, then tell her you absolutely are because someone has to be and since she cannot control herself, then you have no choice but to do it for her to protect her and the integrity of your family. That's the job of an adult.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Kind Soul said:


> No I am not really part of her circle. I'm not liked within that group.
> 
> So yes to answer one of your questions, she goes out alone most of the time when it comes to them, they're her friends. I stay in or do my own thing. About once a month she wants me to attend a more couples oriented event with them and that's when we end up fighting a ton, because he says or does something, or challenges me in a nicey nice way. And she ends up liking the whole situation, but not liking me trying to do anything, I guess I'm supposed to stew silently which she likes, she likes my nostrils flaring she says. I don't really get it but while I was so depressed it was the least of my problems. Now that I'm back on my feet again for the first time in years, I'm starting to react to all of this in a more typical way I guess.


I hate to break the news to you but you're not only not part of her group, you're her groups entertainment. You think your wife is the only one who gets a kick out of seeing you seething? I can just see it, they're planning a get together and one of them tells her "bring your monkey and we'll make him dance again".

You have 3 choices here. 

You can continue to eat the sh!t she's shoveling.

You can man up and take her in hand. Cut this group completely out of both of your lives.

You can kick her to the curb and find a woman that will actually love you.

Bottom line, for your own mental health one of two things needs to happen. Either she goes no contact with all her friends or you divorce and go no contact with her.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Kind Soul said:


> I don't know why she agreed to do what she did for her one boss, really her boss's boss. I don't understand that.


You don't understand? Let me explain it to you my man. She was acting like a groupie, wanted to F him, and would have F'd him if he hadn't of shut her down (if they didn't do the deed. I mean how many men a going to put the brakes on an opportunity like that) Do you think a single woman with any integrity would tolerate the way he was talking to her and jerking her around, not withstanding the fact she's married. She has no loyalty to you or respect for you Dawg, treating you like a stooge, downgrading you, commenting about you in a despicable manner, , and worse you're allowing it to happen. All this is clearly evidenced by her unhidden low opinion of you. And like NF said, "I hate to break the news to you but you're not only not part of her group, you're her groups entertainment." In short, you're behaving like their trained monkey and the foil of their jokes. But hey, at least you're getting some attention. You need to get your head out of your azz my man. 
The problem is you've been putting up with it too long to do anything about it now. The wear patten is set it. You ain't going to change it. She too use to doing her own thing with her buds and having some strange on the side. (if you don't believe it, you're crazy) If you try to stop it, she's gone. But you believe things have changed? Good luck with that. You're either going to have to go it without her or just accept you'd rather be her clown than to live without her. 
And your, "doing my best to explain and to understand why my life is where it is now". The long and the short of that is you allow it.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

10 years and she starts again? I don't buy that she wants you to be an alpha male, to be dominated or to save her. I see emasculation. Finding out 7 years of being Plan B and finding out she would have had sex for no reason would lead to depression. You are fighting because YOu KNOW, in the back of your mind, your marriage comes second to this terrible social circle and other men. Also, you are having problems because your intuition knows 7 years is too long not to have had a sexual affair.

If she wants you to "man up" do it. Shut EVERYTHING down with this "circle" and see if that's what she really wants.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Before I became a stay-at-home-mom, I worked in the corporate world in a mostly male department. I like to think I was a reasonably attractive female; I certainly was never lacking for dates or male attention.

But not one -- not a SINGLE one -- of these male coworkers ever said or did anything remotely inappropriate. These men knew I was engaged, and acted accordingly. Sure, there's always a crude joke at the water cooler, but it was never directed towards me or said in a way to make me feel uncomfortable.

I just wonder what kind of signals she is sending out that makes men think they can talk to her and treat her like a common streetwalker. It's something SHE'S doing that make these pigs think they can treat her poorly.

You have no kids, she's cheated in the past, is still violating boundaries in a huge way, and basically treats you like crap. And she lives the life of a single person -- going out with her own friends, excluding you, getting drunk at the pool, etc. And she lets men hang all over her and disrespect her, you and your marriage.

Personally, I would dump her and move on.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

happy as a clam said:


> Before I became a stay-at-home-mom, I worked in the corporate world in a mostly male department. I like to think I was a reasonably attractive female; I certainly was never lacking for dates or male attention.
> 
> But not one -- not a SINGLE one -- of these male coworkers ever said or did anything remotely inappropriate. These men knew I was engaged, and acted accordingly. Sure, there's always a crude joke at the water cooler, but it was never directed towards me or said in a way to make me feel uncomfortable.
> 
> ...


I was thinking the same thing concerning what type of vibe she must be giving off to get that many propositions for sex and that many males demanding sex from her. I also used to work in a male dominated environment (75% or higher males) and was young, reasonably attractive, fit, and single and later married. I can think of one time a coworker said something that might be considered inappropriate if I had let it continue. It was along the lines of "if only I wasn't married, I would ask you out." I cut any thoughts of him going any further with that by saying something like "you are married so no need to even think about that!" I think in my work as a female in a male dominated field where I wanted to be taken seriously I gave off a professional vibe that made it obvious that I meant don't even try it. And also the sexual harassment warnings were big in the corporate world at that time. I did end up marrying someone from my work place (different building across town, met at outside of work event, both single, etc).

I hate to say but it seems maybe your wife gives off a vibe if she goes along and laughs at sexual jokes and inappropriate comments. She may just be viewed as the office ****. And with that, many of the men figure they might as well give it a try. Add to that that she has put you down and disrespected you to others in social gatherings. Is it any wonder none of these men think she is serious about boundaries in marriage?

And you think with her attitude and how she has apparently not valued your marriage (based on what little she has admitted to) that she has never had anything physical with any of the many men who have propositioned her over this 10 years of her loose boundaries? Why would it require waiting to be at a conference with her boss's boss for them to do the things she happily agreed to do with him? A locked office door is all it would take!


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Kind Soul said:


> I think so too. Last time we were around the current guy who's after her, *she thought she saw me get mad at something he said. I didn't and hadn't been paying attention. But she was really into the idea that I'd gotten upset and reacted. So I'm sure she needs some kind of jealous reaction from me in addition to the attention she seems to need from all these guys.* But I still think there is a huge difference from how she is now vs. how she was when this was really going on and she had her affair.


Seems she really enjoys messing with your mind, especially with the guy who's trying to "get" her. So tell us again, why are you still with her? She definitely doesn't sound like a loving wife!


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

I'd be stunned if these hadn't gone physical. She's not remorseful and it will continue, and escalate.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I don't buy that she wants you to be an alpha male, to be dominated or to save her. I see emasculation. Finding out 7 years of being Plan B and finding out she would have had sex for no reason would lead to depression.


 :iagree::iagree::iagree:
I do not buy it either. I know that it makes the OP feel better to think that in a warped way she was thinking of him when she was acting inappropriate with these other men, but the facts show this not to be true. In his first post the OP said "So I found out about all of it at once. I found out about the emotional affair from her coworkers and then the rest came out during the weeks of arguing that followed." If her goal were to get a reaction from her him in an attempt to get him to be her alpha male, she would not have kept these things a secret from him for 7 years. The OP needs to stop over analyzing her. She does these things because she is addicted to male attention and the brain drugs that this attention releases.



phillybeffandswiss said:


> You are fighting because YOu KNOW, in the back of your mind, your marriage comes second to this terrible social circle and other men. Also, you are having problems because your intuition knows 7 years is too long not to have had a sexual affair.
> 
> If she wants you to "man up" do it. Shut EVERYTHING down with this "circle" and see if that's what she really wants.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
The OP keeps wondering why the "circle" allows other men to act inappropriately with his wife when the answer is simple. The people in this circle are not friends of the OP or friends of the marriage. In this circle, the OP is nothing more than the butt of all of their jokes, with the other men knowing that since no one (including the OP's wife) respects or takes the OP seriously, it is open season on the OP's wife.

I do not have friends that disrespect my wife, and my wife does not have friends disrespect me. We are a team. If you disrespect one of us, you disrespect both of us. For the OP's marriage to have a chance, she needs to drop this circle from her life and make friends with people that see them as a couple and that respects the marriage. The OP's wife keeping these friends in her life should be a deal breaker for the OP.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

thummper said:


> Seems she really enjoys messing with your mind, especially with the guy who's trying to "get" her. So tell us again, why are you still with her? She definitely doesn't sound like a loving wife!


Thanks Thummper, I waned to address that comment.

WTH is she talking to his guy for, if he is harassing her and she wants it to stop? Again, your intuition is piecing things together your heart doesn't want to see.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Kind Soul said:


> Okay so this is one area I think I've fixed things on my end. In the past, 3 years ago, I was the one begging to fix things and trying to find out what she needed and all that. I think the big shift occurred, in terms of her attitude, when I said if she screws up again then I'm done.
> 
> The guy currently hounding her is not getting anywhere with her, unlike the past guys, but I guess I wish she knew how to just shut it all down. Boot him. But also honestly can't say I see her violating what I said. So she has a boundary, but it's not a great one.


MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF ADVICE. NEVER......EVER.......BEG. Women respect straightforward, upfront, confident men. They do NOT respect whiners, spies and weak individuals. Set the rules, that you can live with, and MAKE sure she understands and follows them. Also MAKE sure she understands the consequences of NOT following them.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Then she must change her social circle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She should want to change her social circle.

And she might like when you react , get jealous but just the fact she keeps going back to the same crowd just shows a lack of respect for you and the marriage.

Why don't you two have any children?

What are you doing for yourself now that the fog of your depression is receding?


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

happyman64 said:


> She should want to change her social circle.
> 
> And she might like when you react , get jealous but just the fact she keeps going back to the same crowd just shows a lack of respect for you and the marriage.
> 
> ...


Yeah I don't know why she puts so much priority on these people. They don't treat her that well. I mean they're nice enough to her but she's usually second fiddle even to her best friend when others are around.

We haven't been able to have kids, working on that. It's not a choice and I'm sure a lot of my issues have made it more difficult. We have a lot of sex and that's never been a problem even when she was in her emotional affair. I have a average to high drive and her's is high high.

In terms of my depression, I don't need counseling anymore. Never did the drugs because it would have been a permanent thing both doc and counselor said. I take ativan now and then for anxiety but generally I do without drugs. 

The main thing now is to repair my career. I was successful before and that success remains, but really my career has just been on a plateau since 3 years back. During my depression I just never had the energy to do anything extra beyond what was necessary. I didn't lose anything career wise, but didn't move ahead like I always had.

I'm also now trying to understand all of this. It's been 3 years since things got bad but it also feels like it was just yesterday. Time didn't seem real for most of that stretch and I've been sitting in a disused room for most of my free time.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm a little older than you and married longer.

Here is a little advice.

Put some focus on you. 

Get aggressive with the job and see where it takes you.
Change the hair, the wardrobe and start working out if you don't already.


Pick up a new hobby or do some short trips. Take the wife with you.

Show her the new you or maybe it will be the old you. See if she notices.

Put the depression and the last 3 years behind you. 

I would be interested to see what your wifes reaction is to all this.

A few posters suggested some books for you. "No more Mr Nice Guy" is a must read. So is "The Married Man Sex Life Primer".

HM


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Kind Soul said:


> Yes, the way she's risked our marriage just to keep me reacting seems to bear that out. This is very different from the past where she hid so much from me, but is also very hard to deal with. I hate hearing all this from her but need to at the same time. But I think it's the combination of male attention (now) and my reactions, when I get jealous of anything else or react at all, she just gets annoyed.
> 
> *But I'm not sure how to get her to respect boundaries when we've fought over this 100 times in 3 years and she still slides right back to doing this, letting some things get said and hoping I hear or whatever her m.o. is now. *
> 
> I can get why my reactions are so important to her now. During my depression I pretty much sat in a room and zoned out for a long time. She hated my passivity, so now I think she seeks out things that get me to react strongly. But I let this go on a long time simply because I was too depressed to react before. It really took a lot out of both of us.


Really, KS, you don't know how to get her to respect boundaries? Didn't you read the comment I sent you a couple of days ago?

You can shut down her bad behavior today if you want to. Simply tell her to stop hanging out with the other couple or you will divorce her. Based on everything you've told us, while she may complain, she will do what you ask. If she doesn't, you will know that you and your marriage don't mean all that much to her.

If she truly is seeking a strong reaction from you, so much the better. But, whether she is or isn't, it's time you either told her what you expect from her or stop whining about what she does. 

Your wife deserves that from you.


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

carmen ohio said:


> Really, KS, you don't know how to get her to respect boundaries? Didn't you read the comment I sent you a couple of days ago?
> 
> You can shut down her bad behavior today if you want to. Simply tell her to stop hanging out with the other couple or you will divorce her. Based on everything you've told us, while she may complain, she will do what you ask. If she doesn't, you will know that you and your marriage don't mean all that much to her.
> 
> ...


I see where you're coming from and I appreciate what you're saying. She would do it if I asked, but I don't want to have to ask. I want her to understand what should be pretty common-sense from my point of view: If you've recently had a series of affair-like relationships crowned by an actual affair, you shouldn't spend days smoking up with guys who have recently grabbed your breasts. Especially when your husbands is bothered by it, which he shouldn't have to say yet again.

It would also make me the bad guy again. She would say fine, stop hanging with them and then would blame me for all of it. It doesn't really gain me anything then. 

She knows it bothers me, she knows it crosses boundaries. If I make some big demanding move now I might "win" in the short term, but long term I'm right back to where I've been our entire marriage. Having to play daddy to her all the time and enforce rules which she then challenges and finds a way to do what she wants. 

What I want is for her to not want that stuff at all. And I can divorce her if things don't change, which I've made clear to her. Even when this happens, then she spends the day weeping and I get to be the bad guy again.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Kind Soul said:


> Yeah I don't know why she puts so much priority on these people. They don't treat her that well. I mean they're nice enough to her but she's usually second fiddle even to her best friend when others are around.
> 
> We haven't been able to have kids, working on that. It's not a choice and I'm sure a lot of my issues have made it more difficult. We have a lot of sex and that's never been a problem even when she was in her emotional affair. I have a average to high drive and her's is high high.
> 
> ...


Is she on the pill or injections?


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## Kind Soul (Nov 12, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Is she on the pill or injections?


Do you mean for fertility? For several months she did the injections below her navel at home. But right now we're doing neither because I had GI issues, related to my anxiety/depression, that were making things difficult on my end as well. I had an endoscopy for that and they found nothing physical, so it's the depression symptoms they're pretty sure.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Have you read MMSLP yet...? Are you working out yet? What actions are you taking. Do you have a plan?


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## lisamaree (Nov 2, 2014)

First - stop trying to conceive with this woman. Bringing children into a damaged relationship like this will make things 1000 times WORSE!

Second - she clearly got a benefit from her relationship with her boss(es) - she enjoys male attention. Her need for male attention will never go away. She will ALWAYS be this way. Is this something that you can live with? 

Third - she clearly has no respect for you. Not only has she, in the past (maybe even presently), talked crap about you to her friends, but she also doesn't care about your feelings. If I had the history of having affairs on my H and he asked me to stop contact with this man because it made him uncomfortable, and I wanted to keep my marriage - I would stop immediately having any sort of contact with him. Your wife won't stop because 1) she doesn't think you will do anything about it and 2) she likes the attention too much to stop. She probably enjoys the thrill of the chase.

Some of what you are feeling is normal fall out from an affair but your wife is making NO effort to build trust. This is a very bad sign. If it were me in your shoes I would be giving my wife and ultimatum - you either respect my request because I'm uncomfortable with this, or I'm walking out.

Does your wife show any remorse? Has she apologized for her past affairs? Do you feel she has told you everything that happened? I'm assuming the answer to all of these questions is NO. 

I'd leave someone like this in a heartbeat. You deserve so much better than this.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

KS,
I am unclear why you say that if you enforce boundaries that your life will pretty much be the same. True she will not have done it on her own but maybe, as I wrote in a previous post, she cannot. So your life would be much the same EXCEPT for the bad crowd she hangs with, her loose boundaries and your constant worry that she is out doing who knows what with who knows who. Isn't that better?

And in time she may actually grow up and appreciate you for keeping her out of trouble and saving the family. To allow her to continue unabated is a bad plan. She is playing with matches in a room full of dynamite.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Kind Soul said:


> If you've recently had a series of affair-like relationships crowned by an actual affair, you shouldn't spend days smoking up with guys who have recently grabbed your breasts. Especially when your husbands is bothered by it, which he shouldn't have to say yet again.


 You just do not get it do you? You should not have to ask that your wife not to hang out with a man that "recently grabbed" her breasts, because you should have demanded that she not hang out with this guy, and that she end all future contact with him. There is no acceptable reason for him to have done this, and you should accept no excuses for this. If he did this to a woman he did not know at a bar, she would have him arrested for sexual assault. The other men in the circle are amazed by your passive inaction in allowing another man to grab your wife's breasts as you do nothing. The other man actually enjoyed humiliating you by having done this with your wife, and your wife coming back to see him for more. The fact that this is unclear to you is why you continue to have these issues. Stop whining about these things and man up.



Kind Soul said:


> It would also make me the bad guy again. She would say fine, stop hanging with them and then would blame me for all of it. It doesn't really gain me anything then.


 And your wife trying to make you out to be the bad guy matters to you because? Do what is right and stop worrying about your cheating wife calling you a bad guy. Cheaters always try to make their spouses out to be the bad guy when the spouse demands that they respect their marriage vows. So what.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Kind Soul said:


> *I see where you're coming from* and I appreciate what you're saying. She would do it if I asked, but I don't want to have to ask. I want her to understand what should be pretty common-sense from my point of view: If you've recently had a series of affair-like relationships crowned by an actual affair, you shouldn't spend days smoking up with guys who have recently grabbed your breasts. Especially when your husbands is bothered by it, which he shouldn't have to say yet again.
> 
> It would also make me the bad guy again. She would say fine, stop hanging with them and then would blame me for all of it. It doesn't really gain me anything then.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, KS, but I don't believe you are seeing where I'm coming from.

In your post #4 you said:



> I think the big shift occurred, in terms of her attitude, when I said if she screws up again then I'm done.


And in your post #6, you said:



> I told her if anything like this goes on again, we're done . . .


Well, she's still screwing up so what are you doing about it?

The reason your wife keeps jerking you around is because you have never given her a reason not to. I'm not telling you to _"make some big demand."_ Instead, just tell her what you expect of her and what will happen if she doesn't meet your expectation, and then follow through.

_"Honey, I'm sick and tired of you ignoring me when I say I don't like it when you hang out with guys that hit on you. So, tell you what I'm going to do. The next time you do it, I'm going to file for divorce. So, honey, you decide what's more important to you, hanging out with guys who hit on you or being married to me. Your choice."_

Then, when she crosses the line the next time, file for divorce. Based on what you said, she will come crawling to you begging for another chance and you can decide if she deserves another chance or not.

Complaining about what she's doing is not the same as telling her what you want, and wishing that she do what you want even though you haven't told her is just passive-aggressive behavior that makes you look weak.

If this is too much for you, then I really have to wonder how you think you're going to save your marriage. You've said the two of you have been arguing about this for three years to no avail. So what makes you think she's suddenly going to figure it out all by herself?

And if she doesn't figure it out, how long are prepared to put up with this?


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Kind Soul said:


> I don't suspect she likes the attention and advances, *she's said she does.* But she says she can end them then and there as they arise. Which she has for the past several years including when I saw but she didn't know I saw. But yes *she likes it* and she likes certain types of men. I don't write that out easily, it's some of those details I learned from her, from our counseling, and relayed to me by our old counselor.


You have a very simple problem; one of compatibility. How your wives behaved with her bosses and how she behaves now amongst 'friends' is incompatible with being a wife.



Kind Soul said:


> I see where you're coming from and I appreciate what you're saying. She would do it if I asked, but I don't want to have to ask.* I want her to understand *what should be pretty common-sense from my point of view: If you've recently had a series of affair-like relationships crowned by an actual affair, you shouldn't spend days smoking up *with guys who have recently grabbed your breasts.* Especially when your husbands is bothered by it, which he shouldn't have to say yet again


She understands. That's not the problem. She continues to do this because she doesn't care about you or what you think. She likes the attention, so she courts it. She has already let them get physical with her. And still she goes back.

Why do you want to remain married to a woman who chooses not to behave like a wife?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I am dumbstruck by the fact that you are actually even considering trying to get this woman pregnant. After three years of misery and depression, do you think she's suddenly going to become Wife and Mother of the year?

No. Let me tell you what will happen. She'll continue to hang out with her pot buddies and you'll be stuck at home alone with a crying newborn. Then, you want to talk about depression?! If you think you're depressed now, just wait til a baby comes along and you've got a wife/mother who is MIA.

Bringing a child into this mess of a relationship would be a travesty and completely unfair to the child. Your number one priority should be repairing the relationship or divorcing this woman, not procreating with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> I am dumbstruck by the fact that you are actually even considering trying to get this woman pregnant. After three years of misery and depression, do you think she's suddenly going to become Wife and Mother of the year?
> 
> No. Let me tell you what will happen. She'll continue to hang out with her pot buddies and you'll be stuck at home alone with a crying newborn. Then, you want to talk about depression?! If you think you're depressed now, just wait til a baby comes along and you've got a wife/mother who is MIA.
> 
> ...


I couldn't say it better. 

KS, if you knock her up, your problems will increase 100 fold. Bringing an innocent kid into this shyte storm is the worst idea you can imagine. 

It will not repair your relationship, bring her out of her fog, clarify her mind, or make her closer to you. 

If you're trying to lock her down by knocking her up, this is pure beta mate guarding buffoonery. 

You have been given great advice. I would surmise most of us have been where you are. 

KS, you are Neo from the Matrix. Open your eyes. Reality is all around you.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Perhaps, he wants an unhealthy child, where the mother isn't around.

"Daddy, what is mommy doing?"

"Well son, mommy is probably doing her friend, and is too high to care at the moment. But at least I have you so I won't be lonely, because she has placed all the responsibility on me. Now I am stuck with mommy until you grow up, because I am now staying for you, and suffering this misery for you."


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

More likely she has the kid, he's paying for it and the kid grows to hate the father while a bunch of mommy's random FB come in and out of the house.

That's more likely the case.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Kind Soul said:


> I don't blame her for him, but I do blame her for being around him, and especially for subjecting me to it. *He's a burnout while I'm very high achieving* despite the depression I suffered during this past 3 years. So throwing down with him would cost me quite a bit. I don't want to get into the details of that.
> 
> *I feel like given she came close to going to bed with just about anyone who asked for several years*, she doesn't even get that much leeway.
> 
> *I admit that you're right in what you say, why don't I force the issue?* I guess that's why I'm here, I want feedback that says I'm right to react even though this is mild compared to what went on before. Does that make sense?





Kind Soul said:


> No kids, 30s both of us, I love her and she isn't how she was before. She has changed a lot. She is honest and goes out of her way to do what I need.


Kind Soul- I think people here have been perhaps too nice and polite with you.

I regret to inform you that you are not "high achieving." You can take whatever comfort you want to in whatever success you have enjoyed in professional life, but in that most important thing, your marriage, you have failed so thoroughly and comprehensively that you are left talking about how awesome you are to salve your ego.

Even now, the closest you can come to facing the cold hard truth is "my wife CAME CLOSE TO HAVING SEX WITH OTHER MEN, *PLURAL*." Go read about gaslighting. Your spouse is STILL admitting to the absolute minimum she has to, and you are still accepting it, although you at least recognize that its wrong of you to do so, and so feel stuck in limbo.

So why don't you force the issue? THAT is a darn good question. From what you have written, you ain't getting better. You're not improving as a person and a husband. For all the boundaries you claim to have set, there still seems to be plenty of room for your wife to misbehave and claw your guts out emotionally.

Perhaps some more boundary-setting is in order.

I suggest a boundary like

"Look, person, if you want to go out and drink and smoke and get hit on by your friend's husband, do it as a single person. Sign these divorce papers."

But that would cost you a lot- child support for years, half of your retirement fund, and you'd be alone in your old age.

Wait, what's that?

You don't have any kids with this woman whose boundaries are somewhere past having sex with MULTIPLE guys at the office?

You're not old? You're only in your 30's with plenty of time to find a decent woman?

You ever wonder what happens to kind souls who marry bad people?

They get what they deserve out of life.

So my question is, why do you think that this is what you deserve out of life?

P.S. I can hear you thinking as you read this- "NotLikeYou, you a$$hole! There is no clear PROOF that my wife had torrid passionate sex with multiple men at the office over the years."

When your position is "You can't PROVE my wife cheated on me," you're on the wrong end of the argument.

Sorry for your situation, but you have plenty of time and opportunity to change things for the better for yourself.


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

Kind Soul said:


> Yeah they are definitely not "our" friends. Her model for a long time was the whole office-spouse thing, and of course these guys would inevitably try to turn it sexual. One may have succeeded but I don't know.
> 
> The others were supervisors who didn't have pretense of being friendly but pretty much just demanded sexual favors. They did less well though only by sheer good luck for me.
> 
> It's stuff like that that makes getting over this still difficult 3 years on and after counseling, but I guess it could have been much worse given what she's told me.


She's piss poor at the boundary because she likes the male attention of being sexually desireable.


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

Kind Soul said:


> Yeah they are definitely not "our" friends. Her model for a long time was the whole office-spouse thing, and of course these guys would inevitably try to turn it sexual. One may have succeeded but I don't know.
> 
> The others were supervisors who didn't have pretense of being friendly but pretty much just demanded sexual favors. They did less well though only by sheer good luck for me.
> 
> It's stuff like that that makes getting over this still difficult 3 years on and after counseling, but I guess it could have been much worse given what she's told me.


She's piss poor at this boundary because she likes the male attention of being sexually desireable.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

What I find interesting in so many of the threads on TAM (and I've said this before) is that a poster comes on here, lays out the problems he's facing, asks for advice, many people who have had experiences similar to his, give him the advice he asks for, and he promptly ignores it, still lamenting his fate. That seems to be what our current OP is doing. He wants her to make the correct decision. :scratchhead: Well, my friend, she isn't going to do that. She's too hooked in to the attention and isn't about to give it up until you finally get pissed, put your foot down, and DEMAND that she stops it. If she fights you on this, then you know what you have to do. Stop pv$$yfooting around and *DO IT!!!!!!!! *


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> I am dumbstruck by the fact that you are actually even considering trying to get this woman pregnant. After three years of misery and depression, do you think she's suddenly going to become Wife and Mother of the year?
> 
> . . .
> 
> ...





helolover said:


> . . . KS, if you knock her up, your problems will increase 100 fold. Bringing an innocent kid into this shyte storm is the worst idea you can imagine . . .


Holy moly, KS, did you really say that you and your WW are trying for a baby? I missed that. If true, that casts a different light on things.

Until now, I've been advising you on the basis that you are a man with reasonably good judgment and more or less normal emotional stability. But if you are really trying to get your WW pregnant, after all she's put you through and continues to do to undermine your marriage, then you need a whole 'nother kind of help.

Get yourself some counseling focusing on decision making skills and emotional maturity, 'cause -- if true -- you aren't thinking straight. In addition, please read _"No More Mr. Nice Guy"_ by Dr. Robert Glover.

First, get your head in the right place. Then, either fix your marriage or find a better marriage partner. Only after you've done these things should you even be considering having children.


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