# lack of affection



## spring12 (Jul 23, 2012)

well, here i am.

hi, everyone.

i'm not even really sure where to start, what to say.

i'm a married woman (early 30s) - i've been with my husband for a little over 9 years.

something is wrong - something has *always* been wrong. despite addressing it over and over and over again - i still walk away with no answers.

he will not admit there is a problem. it's one of two things: 1) he doesn't SEE it as a problem the way i do or 2) there IS a problem but he won't admit it.

in the very, very early stages of our relationship/marriage, we had a normal, healthy, affectionate sex life. 

it went downhill shortly thereafter, and has since remained there. 

i have initiated *the talk* with him many times. & it doesn't appear to annoy him - but i don't get any answers. our talk normally revolves around whether there is something holding him back from desiring me and showing it. he denies any possible lack of interest, says he's more than happy to have sex with me, he would never turn me down, etc. the problem is *he* never initiates it with *me*. i feel like a darn fool continuously putting myself out there for him, pushing, pushing. 

we have sex on occasion - when i initiate it. god, my heart sinks as soon as i say that out loud. it is really hard for me to come on this board and talk about it openly with people that may understand where i'm coming from but at the same time, it's uplifting - knowing that i may not be alone in feeling this way.

i'm not shy with initiating sex but i don't do it very often because i feel so ashamed that HE never initiates with ME. i feel worthless and unattractive and it makes me feel so stupid to put myself out there for a man who doesn't bat an eye at me otherwise. granted, when i *do* initiate it with him, he's quick to respond. he does not say no. but i feel HORRIBLE about it because i feel like i'm pushing myself & desperately seeking attention - when all i'd really like is for a man to look at me without having to ask him. 

sometimes, we'll have a very busy sex life stint because i'll initiate it every.single.day for days at a time. & it's fine - we start looking like a normal, functioning couple. but after a few days, the loneliness sets in - i start feeling like i mustn't be good enough and i'll ask myself again and again, why doesn't *he* come to me? why did i have to push myself at him for several days straight? is there something about me he doesn't like? etc. we'll do really good for a while and then i'll get disheartened so i'll stop doing my big thing every night where i put myself out there and grab his attention. as soon as i step back and let him take the reigns - any short lived sex life we had stops dead in its tracks.

i've recently started feeling very differently about myself - no longer do i look in the mirror and question what could be wrong with me - i hold my head high KNOWING that i'm wonderful the way i am & worthy of love & affection. problem is - i'm still not getting it. 

i keep a calendar tucked away where i cross off all the days that pass without him showing affection toward me. it is filled with x's. everywhere. how pathetic and ridiculous is that. it's becoming almost a game to me, as horrible as that sounds. i wonder how many days he can go without looking at me/touching me? i cross them off as they go by. i wait. nothing happens. eventually i cave and i push myself on him again. it makes me feel even worse.

perhaps my view of affection is skewed. i don't know. affection, in my eyes, means a hug, a kiss, an arm around me, warmth at night, having him look at me. simple things. 

most nights, he doesn't sleep with me. granted, some of those ARE my fault - i'm a shift worker and i'll often ask to sleep alone if i know that i need to get a very solid night's sleep. but that's a rare occasion. most of the time he falls asleep in front of sports. or promises me he'll come to bed with me when some show is over...i wait, and wait, and wait until i eventually fall asleep alone. 

there is no reason to feel he may be having an affair. i highly, highly, highly doubt it. i can't quite explain why i doubt it - but put it this way, if he were, it would totally blow me away. 

i think i could deal with having an infrequent sex life. life is busy - days are long - it wouldn't bother me to go stretches of time without sex. it's not SEX i'm looking for - it's affection. 

i've often thought perhaps i'm not showing enough to him. but i try, i really do. i make conscious efforts to shower him with my attention and my time. then i give up because it's a one way street.

it breaks my heart sometimes - i'll sit back and think about how much i'd love to have a man who would simply roll over in bed and hold my hand. or say good morning to me. is that too much to ask? isn't that a natural part of loving someone? i'm always reaching out to touch him, or sitting by him, or smiling at him, or SOMETHING to show i care. but then i think...what's the point. i'm not going to get it back. is it really fair to put myself through that constant heartache?

the worst part - the absolute worst part - is when i'm talking with other lady friends and i hear their stories. their husbands tell them how pretty they are. they jump into bed with them at night. they can't keep their hands off them. they are PROUD to show the world their wife. etc. and i sit there feeling like i have to lie to my friends and pretend i have that, too. it kills me. 

i don't know what to do about this anymore. i've talked to him time and time again and it seems like we do okay for a few days because i'll make a conscious effort to work really hard at it. but eventually stop because i get to a point where i think it's pathetic of a woman to sit around nagging for attention.

there is a huge, huge, huge part of me that screams he isn't in love with me. that nagging voice in the back of my head that says - he's just simply not attracted to you. he loves you, but he isn't *in* love with you. i've talked to him about that numerous times - gently told him how i felt - he denies it and reassures me everything is fine. either i'm an idiot, or he's in denial.

i should probably add that he is a hard working man. a good father. a good homemaker. a good partner in terms of working our way through life and being successful, making good decisions regarding our futures, etc. he isn't an ignorant man who you'd expect to treat his wife coldly.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

You have a similar situation as I do with my wife. She is the one that never initiates sex, is always too tired or not in the mood and, in general, is an unaffectionate person. If I kept the same calendar as you have, I would be crossing off practically every day without her showing any affection. It's not even sex that I'm always looking for but rather just the normal and expected acts of love that spouses do for one another. If I dont reach out first to hold her hand, etc, then it doesn't occur. If I dont say I love you first, I don't hear it. I can totally understand where you're doing from and agree that it is an issue that can be quite cumbersome for the party that is constantly reaching out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spring12 (Jul 23, 2012)

well. how stupid do i feel right now? after posting my message, i went back and read through some similar posts regarding similar issues. i read about how lack of intimacy can sometimes be caused by porn use.

so i searched his computer. internet history deleted. okay, that's a sign, i thought. google history, however, had not been deleted. 

...porn movies - i could deal with that. hell, i might even watch it with him. random sneak peeks of celebrities - i could deal with that. 

but what was it?

...live interactive webcam shows.

i can't deal with that.

i called him at work (he works night shift). i was nice & calm about it. asked him to tell me about it. he denied it. said i was mistaken, you're misinterpreting something, so on & so forth. i said....i see the exact google searches you did and the hits you visited. it's as clear as day. it's not like you happened to randomly stumbled upon a live webcam. you're searching for them. 

i told him in my nice, calm tone that i am the mother of his children. that i have come to him several times asking if we could be closer. that i wondered why, thought perhaps it was me. but he's had other women that he contacts. he doesn't need me. 

i told him not to come home. i put an overnight bag on the doorstep and locked the door. he didn't say sorry. he didn't sound surprised. maybe throwing him out is unjustified? but you know what? for years now i've questioned what is wrong with me and i've been told again and again that i'm fine, there's nothing wrong with me, etc. these girls look nothing like me. they all fit a similar mold that is the polar opposite of myself. 

it's one thing to look at other people's bodies but to use a live interaction as a substitute for your own wife while she lies in bed at night is just dead wrong.

at least now i know.

xo. good night, folks. thanks for listening.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Throwing him out is justified.

You have asked him over and over for years and told him what you need. He ignored you. He has shown no care for your needs.

You will see how this goes over the next few days. He will continue to deny, that's the way it goes. Capturing as much evidence as possible right now is a very good idea. HIs lying will make you feel nuts. So having the evidence will help you calm the thoughts that you might be nuts and have imagined something.

By the way. many of us have similar problems with husbands who refuse to talk to us about what is going on in their heads, who turn us down for sex because they prefer internet porn, live sex chat or live video porn.

You are far from alone in this.. just wanted to let you know.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Wishing you the best spring12. For him to prefer to 'get off' to an image (to me a webcam is still just an image even if the woman at the other end is real) while his warm-bodied wife is lying in bed basically begging for him is a complete joke.

I hope you can sort this out, but I'd be pretty adament that there is no porn anymore if he comes back.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

Live web cams are just another form of porn. As a HD guy, I like to change things up and check them out from time to time. It's a little 'dirtier' because it's actually happening and not a clip. Doesn't mean that I'm cheating or trying to hook up with that girl on the screen. I hope tat you work things out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

spring12 - i'm so sorry your going through this.

I also believe you are justified in chucking him out. 
To have chosen online/web porn over you is just awful, especially since you have made it clear you want/desire him and that your lonely.

I don't like porn but i do believe most men can look at a bit of porn and it doesn't effect the rest of their lives. They keep it in moderation. Like having a few beers a week.

Your man clearly can't do this... 

He maybe doing the 'man face' thing and looking like he doesn't care...but i bet it hasn't even sunk in yet. He went to work this morning thinking everything was cool. Now by going home time he's homeless and his marraige is on shaky ground... I'm sure he is SPINNING. 

Whats your plan now spring12?


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

40isthenew20 said:


> Live web cams are just another form of porn. As a HD guy, I like to change things up and check them out from time to time. It's a little 'dirtier' because it's actually happening and not a clip. Doesn't mean that I'm cheating or trying to hook up with that girl on the screen. I hope tat you work things out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



:scratchhead:

Are you for real?

His wife lies in bed waiting for him and he choses the webcams over her...

If you lay in bed at night waiting for your wife but she prefered to stay downstairs, online, playing with herself, watching guys with huge d!cks playing with themselves...you'd be cool about that. I mean... at least she not actually cheating on you??

:scratchhead:


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

ReWaiwera - I would much rather go and bang my old lady than wack off. I'm just speaking in general terms to the OP aout her being so hurt by this. It's not cheating at all. It's just horniness and something new for most people. And for what it's worth, I would, cream my pants if I caught my wife rubbing one out on the Internet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

40isthenew20 said:


> And for what it's worth, I would, cream my pants if I caught my wife rubbing one out on the Internet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And it wouldn't bother you that she didn't want to have sex with you anymore... that she prefered 'rubbing one out on the net' to having sex with you.

Because that is what the OP is talking about....nothing 'general' about that!

It's the choosing the porn over the spouse I see as the issue...not the porn itself. 

peace


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

Of course that would bother me. But our sex is so infrequent as it is that one or two less is not a big difference. If I caught her playing with herself, it would show me that she isn't a total cod fish and hopefully that would spurn her to want it more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spring12 (Jul 23, 2012)

an update.

this process has been horrible. horrible. it is the most painful thing i've ever had to go through in life. that may sound dramatic but it is true.

he came home from work & i insisted that he leave. as our conversation unfolded, he said that he would get custody of our kids if we separated. i have a history of depression and he believes that i wouldn't be a good mother to them if i were left alone. he said he would seek sole custody and that he wouldn't be okay with them being raised by me.

that broke my heart more than the porn. words cannot express how badly that hurt me. i thought...my husband doesn't desire me physically - but he *also* doesn't desire me emotionally.

i don't know why he is with me. we have talked about it several times in the past few days. i have asked him, why are you with me? if you feel this way about me, why haven't you left me? and he has been saying things like, if i wanted to leave, i would have left a long time ago. that should tell you i want to stay. the last 9 years haven't been the best experiences in my life at times. look at all the things you have gone through and i've stuck by your side. 

what, does he think he deserves a trophy or something? a monetary award? staying with me during depression means he's in love with me? please. i don't believe he's in love with me - i think he's kidding himself.

"The last 9 years haven't been the best experiences in my life at times." 

what a horrible kick in the face.

using a history of depression against me is quite possibly the cruelest thing he could do. 

i told him to stay & that we would work it out because i cannot bear to lose my children. i would curl up into a ball and die. i would be terrified to go through a custody battle *in case* i did lose. i want to make this work so i don't risk losing them.

i've been going back and forth between anger & upset & decreased self worth vs. determination & perseverence to make this work. 

when i comment about leaving me alone upstairs while he masturbates downstairs...choosing an artificial means of satisfaction over his living, breathing wife, he says things like, it isn't like that! i don't choose it over you - i do it because you are sleeping and i don't want to wake you up. 

his excuses are so bloody ridiculous.

i'm really not sure where to go from here.

i have made a mistake - a very, very huge mistake. i have been initiating sex with him a lot in attempt to prove something to myself. to prove that he is attracted to me. to make him want to choose me. i feel like such an idiot for doing that after all he has put me through. i feel like a weak, powerless woman who strives to please someone who doesn't appreciate her. especially considering he still isn't initiating with me. i am so ashamed that i've been doing this - i need to stop and respect my self worth.

he didn't apologize until several days later when i demanded an apology. he didn't sound sorry at all. 

this is all coming as SUCH a huge blow to me. i had no idea he could act like this. no idea. it has come as a complete shock.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I wish I had a long plan that you could implement to fix all this. But anything I can come up with Is just grasping at straws. What he is doing is abusive. One thing that could force a paradigm shift, and I'm serious, is catching him masturbating and mocking him for being afraid to have a real woman. Knock down his ego a bit. Ask him to buy you a new vibrator since he can't seem to get the job done. Let him think about that a bit.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Without his knowledge, go visit an attorney. If you can't afford one right now, or don't want him to know about where that money is going, then call around and see who does free consultations. 

You are taking his word that he would get custody. You should do your homework and figure out what would really happen in a divorce. Do not assume that just because he said he will get the kids ...that he will. Knowledge is power. 

Also, ask him if he will go with you to marriage counseling. If either of you has insurance thru your employer it might be covered. If he declines, go alone.... it might give you some guidance. 

And I think... stop initiating sex with him. Of course we all want sex, so that part can be difficult. But really, he should be proving to YOU that he wants sex with you. Easy to say.... I know... BTDT. 

I'd probably stop talking about the relationship/marriage for awhile. It's like banging your head on a brick wall. I would focus on the kids, work, my Plan B, and just kind of leave him alone. Not in a rude way, but not going out of my way to be inviting to him. Find a few things that YOU can do... whether it's just exercising, a hobby, home improvements...whatever.... something you can do while you are trying to wrap your head around all this... something constructive. 

The biggest thing is.... educate yourself. Find out where you stand...it'll help put your mind at ease, and help determine your plans for your future.

Good Luck.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

S12 - Did you go through an extended severe clinical depression? That is very stressful on family members, especially spouses. No, he doesn't deserve a medal for standing by you and being supportive during that time, but I hope you recognize that it is not nothing. Family members experience fear and helplessness when a loved one is clinically depressed. 

How was your relationship before your depression?


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

I am so so sorry you are dealing with this...i can identify with your feelings and i can feel your pain...just wanted to tell you that you are not alone.

It makes me feel horrible that you are with him simply out of fear that he will take custody of your kids. Sounds like he is manipulating you. If you know you take good care of your kids, they will not be taken away. Depression is an illness like any other that you did not choose and cannot help. Unless you have suicide attempts, and are in and out of hospitals, chances are he will not get custody. I've been through a custody battle and i knew the chances were extremely slim that my ex would get custody of our kids, but the slightest chance scared me half to death. IMO, you are going to have to face that fear if you want to have a better future. 

Again, I am so sorry for you pain. I really wish that he would have remorse and try to make amends...for you and your kids sake.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi Spring ~

I totally agree with SunnyT!

Actively make a plan - go see an attorney and discuss what your options are.

It won't be of any benefit to your kids to have their mother coerced into staying in a marital situation out of fear that sucks the life out of her.

Are you currently under any form of treatment for your depression? Do you have a local support network to help you - friends, family?

Best wishes.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Not taking the H's side or saying that what he is doing is right, but something to consider. Have you done anything about your depression over the years? My W is depressed, and refuses to seek help. I try to be understanding, but it's hell at times to be with her. I'm sticking it out for now, and no, I don't expect a medal for it. I have to admit though, that my resentment builds, mostly b/c she won't help herself, and I don't know if I can recover from it. On top of this, she's LD. I'm HD, but I'm getting to the point of not wanting to try with her any longer. I also feel myself detaching more and more from her.

Could this possibly be what happened in your marriage?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

My ex wife said a lot of similar things to your H Spring12, when I found out about her serial cheating (she had at least 12 online EA's going at once, a few of which I question may have gone physical.

She just didn't care. 

While I made it work for another year-plus after that, she never really tried to improve anything and afterwards I know she stayed for the security of the home and family, not for the marriage.

I'm not saying that is the case in your situation, but it could be. Don't waste your time if it is, get a lawyer involved at least to see where you stand.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Spring,

You do need to see an attorney about this. 

It would be very hard for him at get 100% custody of the children due to your depression. How incapacitated were you from your depression? Were you institutionalized? Were you suicidal and if so are there police and/or medical records on this? Did you ever threaten to hurt your children or anyone else?

How many hours a day are you alone with your children? You see if he leaves the children in your care day after day when he’s at work and when he’s doing other things, then he cannot claim that you cannot take care of the children on your own because of depression or other issues. If he trusted you before he tries to get custody then he cannot claim you cannot be trusted when it suits his agenda.

The most likely scenario is that you two will get 50/50 custody. He’s making threats that he cannot back up.


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## spring12 (Jul 23, 2012)

my depression was short lived and mild. i currently take a low dose antidepressant. i have had no suicide attempts, no hospitalizations, no drug/alcohol use, no abuse toward others, etc. a mild case of depression where i sometimes had a bit of trouble sleeping. i worked full time despite feeling a bit down, i kept our house in order. etc.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Glad to hear that your depression wasn't debilitating. In that case I don't see why your H would throw it in your face. Was he freaked out by it?


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