# Next Steps to Reconciliation



## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

Greetings,

It's been a while since I've posted about my situation.

Affair Summary: WW had a 6-year affair with OM#1, a ONS with OM#2, and a weird voyeuristic relationship (with him flirting / wanting details / egging her on with OM#1) with OM #3. D-day about OM#1 was 2.5 years ago. D-day about OM #2 and OM #3 was 1 year ago. She broke NC with OM#1 7 months after D-Day and 13 months after D-Day, but didn't get physical and not since.

About 14 months ago, I asked for a divorce (and meant it) while doing my best at 180 (not full, but a good deal of it). She asked to reconcile. I said NC with OM#1, NC with OM#2, and I'd give her rope with OM#3. (In reality I was testing her.)

She's maintained NC with OM#1 and #2. 6 months ago she went NC with OM#3 on her own and she really started work on reconciling. Where we are now: she's "comfortable and optimistic" (her words). My overwhelming anxiety has almost entirely disappeared (although I'm still very vigilant), the bouts between feelings of sadness or anger are lengthening, and she really has stopped the lying and betrayal, the fog seems to have largely lifted, and suddenly not everything is my fault. We're getting along very well and having fun.

The only thing that hasn't gotten better is the lack of sex / intimacy. She says she's not ready yet. To be honest, I'm not sure I'm ready either, but I do need her to be ready to feel comfortable.

Anyone been in this position before? If things are going much, much better but still aren't what you want, how do you decide whether/when to leave or pose an ultimatum (that you are willing to follow through on)? We do have young kids, so I'm really concerned with being a good role model for them. While we've made a lot of progress, I don't consider settling for a friendly, honest, non-intimate marriage to be good role modeling for my children or healthy for me in the long run.


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Forget about the affair for a minute. Is any marrige without intimacy healthy?

Got to work past this IMO. Perhaps you just need to "prime the pump" as my wife would say. If it has been a while you both may just need a quick and dirty session to remind you what you liked about it.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

totallyconfused said:


> The only thing that hasn't gotten better is the lack of sex / intimacy. She says she's not ready yet. To be honest, I'm not sure I'm ready either, but I do need her to be ready to feel comfortable.
> 
> Anyone been in this position before? If things are going much, much better but still aren't what you want, how do you decide whether/when to leave or pose an ultimatum


Yes, very similar. My wife's was an EA. It never went physical as it was long distance. But after we pretty well recovered everything else in the marriage, sexual intimacy was still non existent. Nearly 2 years after D-Day. Like your wife, mine was uncomfortable with opening that gate. It was something she really didn't want to discuss. Since a conversation never really got off the ground with her I made a simple plan. To aggressively pursue her one night without warning. I figured she'd ether accept and we'd move forward or she'd reject and force the conversation. She rejected and I simply said we needed to talk about this issue in the morning. The conversation was calm and caring. Mostly centered around the fact that we'd already fixed pretty much everything else in the marriage but to come full circle we needed to move forward sexually. She was resistant but agreed she could "go through the motions". After just a couple of encounters she was full on in her engagement during sex. It happened pretty quickly and as I has suspected and hoped, she began to take down the final bricks in the emotional wall she had built. Emotionally reconnecting was the final hurdle in our recovery and sex was just as important as communications, empathy, friendship...... It's not a fairy tail ending however. HD/LD is still an issue with us. It has been for many years and was one of the factors that contributed to erosion of the marriage over time. But we handle it better with a combination of her being more willing and me being more understanding. 

Hope that helps.


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## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

I guess part of it is wanting to be a moral person.

Saying, "I'm going to leave you if you don't start sleeping with me" sounds like coercion and I'm very uncomfortable with that.

Saying "I can't stay in a marriage without intimacy, no matter how much better it's gotten, so I'm filing for divorce" sounds like I'm standing up for myself and that resonates.

But really, they are the same thing.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

INMSHO it's really not about the sex so much but about caring enough for your spouse to do what you are not necessarily in the mood for.


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Reading your story....Lack of sex has been the one consistant theme. Right now your wife has no respect for you via the affairs and doesn't think you will leave the marriage...you may threaten too but won't actually leave. You have lived in a sexless marriage for the overwhelming majority of it and she probably thinks as long as she does the little things that you won't leave.

I hate to ask but have you done a DNA test ob your kids? How do you know that she stopped during the conception of one kid then started the affair again and then stopped again for the next kid etc etc???? 

Looked bottomline.....If you want a wife that loves and respects you as well as have a normal initimate sex life with you should look eslewhere. This has been the way she is and its hard to turn the switch back on after being off for so long.


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## zsu234 (Oct 25, 2010)

Focking A :iagree:!!!!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

ShootMePlz! said:


> Looked bottomline.....If you want a wife that loves and respects you as well as have a normal initimate sex life with you should look eslewhere. This has been the way she is and its hard to turn the switch back on after being off for so long.


Ditto.

I don`t know how so many men put up with a complete lack of intimacy in their "intimate" relationships.

I`d have been gone long ago.


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## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

ShootMePlz! said:


> I hate to ask but have you done a DNA test ob your kids? How do you know that she stopped during the conception of one kid then started the affair again and then stopped again for the next kid etc etc????


Since she told me that part of the story, I have had doubts about the paternity of our second child as it seems like a likely lie (the only one she could have come up with if it she had gotten pregnant by OM#1). That said, by the time I found out about the affair, he was already 5. I never had any doubts before that time because he looks / acts like me. Ultimately, although I've thought about it quite a bit, I haven't tested his paternity because he's my son, either way.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

She has had 3 affairs that you know of and of course one of these affair was for six years. At the minimum you have had at least 6 years of your marriage a lie. You have had more than 6 years of your wife putting your health at risk for STD's. You question the paternity of one of your children. You are still with her and have a total lack of sexual intimacy. What is wrong with this picture??????

I doubt if the roles had been reversed your wife would have been so accepting as you have been. I do not know how you could ever trust her now or in the future. She stops you from divorcing her and she still refuses to even consider sexual intimacy.

I think you are in the fog big time. Why do you feel you deserve so little in your life. The actions of your wife shows she has no respect for you whatever. The sad part is that I don't think you do either. If you do not respect yourself then who will? You deserve so much better than this.


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## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

I get that most men would have left by now and that the number of bad things that have happened to date are nigh-impossible to recover from. I get that she is more likely than not to revert to form at some point in the future. I get that I may well be in my own fog, with low self-esteem and not expecting enough for myself. (It's kind of hard to claim that I am not in a fog, when by definition that means a form of self-delusion.)

All that said, for now I am trying to reconcile. I am standing up for myself by drawing clear lines as to what I expect and won't tolerate, and I've been very firm on that. She has materially changed in the last 6 months in verifiable, tangible ways. If that persists, and if we find a way to resume intimacy, then I'm willing to forgive, primarily because I would like to do that for my children.

I'm hoping for specific advice on how to restart intimacy in a non-coercive way after such a long drought and so many terrible things in between. If I can't, then the last 2.5 years of trying to 180, to get her out of the fog, and to reconcile will have been a waste and I'll have to leave the marriage anyway.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

totallyconfused said:


> I get that I may well be in my own fog, with low self-esteem and not expecting enough for myself.


This may well be the root of the problem. You need to carry yourself with confidence, a word in my signature that was important in our recovery. When I faced the situation I did it form a position of confidence. It wasn't coercion it was more of "we've fixed almost all of the issues in our marriage, this is the last one. We need to address this so we can both be happier. Take my hand and trust me, it will get better." Work on your confidence and lead her out of it. She needs to see that in you.


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## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

Amplexor said:


> This may well be the root of the problem. You need to carry yourself with confidence, a word in my signature that was important in our recovery. When I faced the situation I did it form a position of confidence. It wasn't coercion it was more of "we've fixed almost all of the issues in our marriage, this is the last one. We need to address this so we can both be happier. Take my hand and trust me, it will get better." Work on your confidence and lead her out of it. She needs to see that in you.


Generally, I feel confident. I feel strong. We lack intimacy. I feel like I should leave if that persists.

Part of the problem is that asking or leading her to resume intimacy feels like weakness on my part. The only thing that feels like being strong and confident is to wait until she asks and then decide if/when I'm ready.

Rereading this, I can see myself twisting myself into mental knots. Ugh. Some days I really hate my inability to handle this as well as I would like.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

totallyconfused said:


> Part of the problem is that asking or leading her to resume intimacy feels like weakness on my part.


This baffles me. Why would be be a weakness to tell your wife you desire her? You have a desire, you have a want and all you are doing is asserting yourself and your desire to have a sexual relationship with your wife. When we went through the conversation I described above my wife told me she felt I tried to push her into intimacy the night before. My statement to her was "If I came on too strong and startled you, I apologize. But I will not apologize for desiring my own wife!" That statement resonated with her, I was asserting my self in what I wanted. The conversation went on in a much more positive manner after that.


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## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

You make a good point.

The best way I can explain it is "She rejected me / made me feel weak by cheating. Expressing desire for her after she cheated feels like further weakness."

Maybe the real answer is that I haven't forgiven her for the pain she caused and I can't really be intimate with someone who hurt me that badly, no matter how much she has changed or how much I hope to preserve my family.

Blah.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

She didn't just cheat with 3 ONS. She had a lover for 6 years in your marriage. Doesn't the enormity of the impact of her having a lover for 6 years in your marriage register with you? She has destroyed your self confidence. You are mixed up and tied up in knots and have no intimacy to boot. There is a saying that a cheating spouse needs to hit rock bottom before they can see the light. In your case it feels like the BH just has to continue to hit rock bottom and feel totally rejected before they can see the light also.

After what she has done most WW's would do anything in their power to get their husband's to just try to attempt recovery. You are the one begging her? What is wrong with this picture? I hope this is not the case with you but it is very strange indeed that she still refuses to be sexually intimate with you. Many times this would indicate she still may be cheating at some level and does not wish to cheat on her lover with her husband. I am sorry but your situation simply does not make sense whatsoever. Again: if you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

totallyconfused said:


> "She rejected me / made me feel weak by cheating. Expressing desire for her after she cheated feels like further weakness."


My push back to you would be that you are ready to forgive and move on. She has to be ready to do that to. The fact that you stayed and have been working to keep the family together shows strength, not weakness. She should respect you for your willingness to fight for the marriage. She should also be thankful to you for giving her a second chance. Approach all you do with her with as much confidence as you can muster. Once you see a little success it'll get easier and more natural. Walk tall in your own home.


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## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

bryanp said:


> Many times this would indicate she still may be cheating at some level and does not wish to cheat on her lover with her husband.


I confident (because of verification) that she is not having any contact with OM#1 and has not for over a year. I think you are correct that she has not yet let OM#1 fully go from her heart and that's the reason for her reluctance.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If you can't forgive, why did you spend so much time with the R?

In addition I think sex is the glue that keeps it all together. 

In my case I reclaimed and felt the need to be competative. I brought my game up a notch. No way was i going to let some POS who sleeps with married chick beat me.

Perserving my family is #1 and with that come a time to take control and command respect from my wife and from my kids.

For so long I didn't give a dam, but I have changed. TC you need to change. In what I mean is respect is earned and there is a certain responsiblity you have as the alph male to protect you family. 

Yes rejection sucks and so does feeling weak, but I will be dammed if for one one minute my family sees me this way. Not now, not after all the OM my W has had.

With confidence comes respect, with confidence comes attraction, and that my friend is what you are looking for.

Your wife to have that attrctive and confident man back.

Yes its easy to sit here and type this all out and tell you this and that, but when your WW has had 20 men in the last 13 years I can tell with the up most certainty that if I did not make the changes that I have now made I would not be here telling you to man up. 


Being weak is not my style, I will not let my WW define who I want to be. I strongly suggest you start looking at your sitch. in a new light. Confidence and additude will get you far in the bed room and in your marraige.

At least that is what I have found in the last 19 month since I confronted my WW.


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