# Divorce after 30+ yrs over sexual dysfunction?



## PurpleTalker

My first post. Greetings. 
My situation is this: after over 30 years of marriage, I'm considering divorce. Neither of us really want it, but our sex life is very challenging. From the beginning, she never had has strong a libido as mine, she is very shy, insecure, and never felt comfortable initiating sex; maybe initiating 20+ times throughout our marriage. That fact is only relevant now because coming to a mutual understanding of where we are now has been a series of difficult yet constructive conversations. 

Where we are is this: her libido is essentially zero now. Having sex for her is painful and with little pleasure. She tells me she tried self-stimulation but it's not there. 

This began 24 years ago after our last child was born. She had a full hysterectomy because of endometriosis. Prior to that, she generally enjoyed sex at least weekly, although I enjoyed it 3 or 4 times weekly. After the surgery, her enjoyment gradually dropped to near zero over a period of 20 years. 

She has tried many types of therapies, medicinal, psychological, nontraditional treatments, etc. We also tried to work on foreplay in and out of bed. 

She is still willing to have sex, if I ask, but it is painful, artificial lubricants do not help. Sex for us is still relatively intimate until actual fornication, when it becomes painful for her, and mechanical until I orgasm. BJs are too much for her, hand jobs are often necessary. 

Our latest discussion is that she understands if I want a divorce, she is ok with it. She does not want me to have extramarital sex. I have mixed emotions about divorce. I've thought about this a lot, considering both our needs, our 3 children, our extended families, our future together, and our future apart. 

Any thoughts and insights are welcome. 

Thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

How old are your children?

It's a tough decision, I know. 

I sounds like she's a good mother and has been a good wife in other ways.

Has she done all that can be done to see if there is a way to increase her libido? 

I can see both sides of this.

The marriage is a known with a good person and your children. But the sex life is not there.

If you divorce, it's no guarantee that you will find what you are looking for. 

Have the two of you been to a sex therapist?


----------



## PurpleTalker

EleGirl said:


> How old are your children?
> Has she done all that can be done to see if there is a way to increase her libido?
> Have the two of you been to a sex therapist?


Childen are all older than 25. Two still at home. 

She believes she exhausted the options, but we've not seen a sex therapist. Good idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

PurpleTalker said:


> Childen are all older than 25. Two still at home.
> 
> She believes she exhausted the options, but we've not seen a sex therapist. Good idea.


If your wife is willing to go to a sex therapist with you it might help a lot. There is a lot that both of you can learn about how to still have physical intimacy. I hope you find a solution.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Purple talker

This is a real serious problem and I hope that a sex therapist can get her to be better about sex. Sex is not every thing in marriage but it is in the top three of most important for most men. Some men have it as number one.

I really feel for your wife as she wants to get better and has tried a lot of different treatments but unfortunately without any success.

Your question is about divorce. *Why would your wife be OK with divorce but not extramarital affair?* I am not advocating extra martial affair but is extra marital affair worse than divorce?


If you get a divorce you are going to have sex with another woman. I know that your wife is in a very difficult position but I am curious as why she determines that extramarital affair is worse than divorce. Especially when she knows that you are going to have sex with other woman after D. *Does the marriage license paper being reversed make that much difference?*


*Purple talker, if nothing works for her can you is satisfied with hand jobs?* I am not telling to be satisfied I am just asking because if every thing else is good in your marriage then it would be tragedy if unfulfilled sex brakes a good marriage. However, I know of many men that will and have broken a marriage for unfulfilled sex. Sex is just so enormously HUGE with some men.


----------



## honcho

Mr Blunt said:


> Purple talker
> 
> This is a real serious problem and I hope that a sex therapist can get her to be better about sex. Sex is not every thing in marriage but it is in the top three of most important for most men. Some men have it as number one.
> 
> I really feel for your wife as she wants to get better and has tried a lot of different treatments but unfortunately without any success.
> 
> Your question is about divorce. *Why would your wife be OK with divorce but not extramarital affair?* I am not advocating extra martial affair but is extra marital affair worse than divorce?
> 
> 
> If you get a divorce you are going to have sex with another woman. I know that your wife is in a very difficult position but I am curious as why she determines that extramarital affair is worse than divorce. Especially when she knows that you are going to have sex with other woman after D. *Does the marriage license paper being reversed make that much difference?*
> 
> 
> *Purple talker, if nothing works for her can you is satisfied with hand jobs?* I am not telling to be satisfied I am just asking because if every thing else is good in your marriage then it would be tragedy if unfulfilled sex brakes a good marriage. However, I know of many men that will and have broken a marriage for unfulfilled sex. Sex is just so enormously HUGE with some men.


Do need to remember how differently men and women look at sex and love. She could very well fear losing him to an affair/sex partner. Dealing with a divorce is one thing. Watching her world slow slip away to a potential new wife for him then divorce is quite another.


----------



## Evinrude58

Figure out a way to make yourself happy. Don't lose a good person to this. Does sound hard, but there's got to be a solution.


----------



## PurpleTalker

honcho said:


> Watching her world slow slip away to a potential new wife for him then divorce is quite another.


Mr Blunt, honcho is on the right track, she told me two things about an affair, she does not want to share, and she does not want me to bring home an infection or disease. I do not want to live with hand jobs, no. 



Evinrude58 said:


> Figure out a way to make yourself happy. Don't lose a good person to this. Does sound hard, but there's got to be a solution.


Evinrude, I tend to agree but it seems idealistic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort

How would you feel about her divorcing you if you developed ED? Something to think about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PurpleTalker

lifeistooshort said:


> How would you feel about her divorcing you if you developed ED? Something to think about.


lifeistooshort, I understand what you're saying, I don't think ED would cause her hardship, so it's not the right question for her. But, if she is ever unhappy, for whatever reason, she needs to leave for her sake. I would miss her, but her happiness is important. I would figure out something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> 
> Your question is about divorce. Why would your wife be OK with divorce but not extramarital affair? I am not advocating extra martial affair but is extra marital affair worse than divorce?
> 
> 
> 
> *By Honcho*
> Do need to remember how differently men and women look at sex and love. She could very well fear losing him to an affair/sex partner. Dealing with a divorce is one thing. Watching her world slow slip away to a potential new wife for him then divorce is quite another
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Originally Posted by Honcho*
> Watching her world slow slip away to a potential new wife for him then divorce is quite another.
> 
> 
> 
> *By Purple Talker*
> Mr Blunt, honcho is on the right track, she told me two things about an affair, she does not want to share, and she does not want me to bring home an infection or disease. I do not want to live with hand jobs, no.


Thanks Honcho, you gave me insight.

Purple Talker
Is every thing else, besides sex, in your marriage good?


----------



## lifeistooshort

PurpleTalker said:


> lifeistooshort, I understand what you're saying, I don't think ED would cause her hardship, so it's not the right question for her. But, if she is ever unhappy, for whatever reason, she needs to leave for her sake. I would miss her, but her happiness is important. I would figure out something.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Ok, let me ask you this. You've been married 30 years so you're at least in your 50's. By your own account you have a good, caring wife that wants to please you but has physical difficulties. Now if she didn't care about your needs or was otherwise selfish that would be different, but assuming this is only about her inability to have sex through no fault of her own ponder this: if you divorce, it's no guarantee you'll find that much sex. How attractive are you? 

If you do but never find a decent long term relationship, will the sex have been worth getting old alone? Some might answer yes to this question and if you're one of them then proceed. In addition, you yourself could develop physical limitations and have a partner dump you; if that happens will giving up your marriage have been worth it? 

I just think this is something that gets lost in the fog of sex; is it worth it to you to toss away what you have for the gamble that you might have better sex, knowing you might not find a better relationship? As I said, if your answer is yes then proceed.

Don't take this as a judgment; take it as honest questions to ponder.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

You took a vow. 

Be a coward and run from your promises to her or be a man and stick around. Get a stack of Penthouses and a bottle of coconut oil and take care of yourself. Don't go the chicken-sh!t route and throw away a good woman who loves you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr Blunt

> It’s rather amazing that God gave her the strength to be a mother to my grandson up until someone else has taken that role from her and now she falls apart


WOW I really feel bad for you tdwal because you do not have a satisfying sex life. However, I am starting to feel worse for your wife. she has fallen a part because she has lost the maternal pleasures of having your grandson live with both of you.

My wife also fell apart when our grandson stop living with us because his mother took him away and into another state. However, when our grandson got old enough he choose to come back and live with us and we are all happy about that. He has been here for years and will always be a close part of us.

Maybe your grandson will come back when he gets older if not to live then to visit often.

If your wife really loves you and shows it then I think you will be able to live with the sex that she is able to give you. My 50 year old pastor has lived without his wife for over two years and he does not date other women just remains single. He is tall, in very good health, and handsome and has lots of opportunities. She took off for the second time in 10 years but this time has been the longest; almost three years.

If he can do it without any with a woman that does not show that she loves him my bet is that you can do it. I am older than you are and I would hate to have to give up sex . My hat is off to you and you need to be appreciated for the sacrifice that you have already endured.


----------



## PurpleTalker

Mr Blunt said:


> Is every thing else, besides sex, in your marriage good?


There are minor issues, not worth mentioning, they are just normal differences that go with any relationship. 

The one major issue is her motivation to work and find work outside the home. She's been a SAHM most of our marriage, working off and on for a total of about 2 years. She sleeps about 10 hours a day, often sleeps until 10am, and takes long naps. She completed a BS (Art Education) 18 months ago but hasn't found a job. I built a studio for her to do her thing, but she spends little time there. 


lifeistooshort said:


> How attractive are you?


I'm still in good shape, slightly overweight, but attractive still (I'm trying to be objective.)


lifeistooshort said:


> is it worth it to you to toss away what you have for the gamble that you might have better sex, knowing you might not find a better relationship?


That's the big question. 



lifeistooshort said:


> Don't take this as a judgment; take it as honest questions to ponder.


I do not think it is judgmental. Thanks. 


bandit.45 said:


> You took a vow.


I'm very aware of my vow and the responsibilities associated with it. 

(BTW bandit, I find the rest of your comment unconstructive, judgmental, and rude.)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PurpleTalker

MrBlunt, when it comes to issues, I'm no angel myself. She says I'm going through a "mid-life crisis," related to my decision to take up drink and vaping. She may be right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

PurpleTalker said:


> There are minor issues, not worth mentioning, they are just normal differences that go with any relationship.
> 
> The one major issue is her motivation to work and find work outside the home. She's been a SAHM most of our marriage, working off and on for a total of about 2 years. She sleeps about 10 hours a day, often sleeps until 10am, and takes long naps. She completed a BS (Art Education) 18 months ago but hasn't found a job. I built a studio for her to do her thing, but she spends little time there.


How old are the two of you?

This is a huge issue. She has not really worked for 30+ years. Most people can not get into the work force after that many years. She needs a lot of support to get out there.

No matter what you do, divorce or not, it's in your best interest to get her out there working and participating in the world outside your home.

There are things that you can do to with her. 

An example is go to Find your people - Meetup See if there are any groups on there for art educators, artists, etc. Go with her to some of the meet ups. Encourage her to get involved, doing projects, etc.

You can help her start a business in which she takes on art students. 

She probably does not go into her studio because she's all alone in this.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> 
> Is every thing else, besides sex, in your marriage good?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *By Purple Talker*
> There are minor issues, not worth mentioning, they are just normal differences that go with any relationship.
> 
> The one major issue is her motivation to work and find work outside the home. She's been a SAHM most of our marriage, working off and on for a total of about 2 years. She sleeps about 10 hours a day, often sleeps until 10am, and takes long naps. She completed a BS (Art Education) 18 months ago but hasn't found a job. I built a studio for her to do her thing, but she spends little time there.
> 
> 
> Blunt, when it comes to issues, I'm no angel myself. She says I'm going through a "*mid-life crisis,"* related to my decision to *take up drink* and vaping. She may be right.


If you are affected by a “ mid-life crises” and then add that your wife does not desire you sexually, nor can have normal sex with you I can see how that would be troubling.

I really do not know much about mid-life-crises even though I am past 60 years of age. I have not had any serious issues within-life-crises but then again I have not had much trouble with mortality, death of a parent, finacial issues, or children leaving home. I am going to reprint what I found on the internet about Mid-life-crises and *if you want to you can comment on the article if you desire.*

Because you mentioned mid-life-crises and you taking up drinking I would think that your situation had a lot to do with your age and possibly some other issues in addition to your unsatisfactory sex life. *I am not discounting the sex but maybe you can do a lot more with the other issues. What do you think?*



> Midlife crisis
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Midlife crisis is a term coined in 1965 by Elliott Jaques stating a time where adults come to realize their own mortality and how much time is left in their life.[1] A midlife crisis is experienced by many people during the midlife transition when they realize that life may be more than halfway over. Sometimes, a crisis can be triggered by transitions experienced in these years, such as andropause or menopause, the death of parents or other causes of grief, unemployment or underemployment, realizing that a job or career is hated but not knowing how else to earn an equivalent living, or children leaving home. People may reassess their achievements in terms of their dreams. The result may be a desire to make significant changes in core aspects of day-to-day life or situation, such as in career, work-life balance, marriage, romantic relationships, large expenditures, or physical appearance.


----------



## EleGirl

tdwal said:


> I would suppose she has a portfolio of work, get her out to all the art shows in the area. Here in MN there are LOTS of them. My son is an artist and he is doing the circuit of them. He wants to do custom work but you have to be out and show your work.


Good idea. We have a lot of show and such that go on here too. It often does not cost that much to get a table/booth.


----------



## bandit.45

:lol:


PurpleTalker said:


> I'm very aware of my vow and the responsibilities associated with it.
> 
> (BTW bandit, I find the rest of your comment unconstructive, judgmental, and rude.)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Struck a chord though didn't it? Or else you would have ignored it.


----------



## PurpleTalker

EleGirl said:


> How old are the two of you?
> No matter what you do, divorce or not, it's in your best interest to get her out there working and participating in the world outside your home.


Elegirl,
I'm 56, she is 54. 
Please explain why you stated "it's in MY best interest...."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PurpleTalker

Mr Blunt said:


> maybe you can do ... more with the other issues. What do you think?


I'll think about it. 
Even if I am in crisis, and I work on other issues, the sex issue remains, and I'm not ready to give that up, so nothing is resolved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Willfully withholding = grounds for divorce. Medical issues = for better or worse. 

Your situation is the latter. This is a test of your character. So, what kind of man are you?


----------



## jld

bandit.45 said:


> :lol:
> 
> Struck a chord though didn't it? Or else you would have ignored it.


Bandit, do you hear your own words?


----------



## PurpleTalker

WorkingOnMe said:


> Willfully withholding = grounds for divorce. Medical issues = for better or worse.
> Your situation is the latter. This is a test of your character. So, what kind of man are you?


I understand and respect this legitimate, and simultaneously simplistic and ethically nuanced, question. I'm wrestling with these nuances, that's why I'm here. I will decide, eventually, based on my sense of ethics and values, not on those of others. 

My sincere thanks for your input.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## imtamnew

No matter what you eventually.decide . I hope and pray that both of you find happiness and peace.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

PurpleTalker said:


> Elegirl,
> I'm 56, she is 54.
> Please explain why you stated "it's in MY best interest...."


Your wife sounds depressed and unengaged in so much in life. Drugs are not always the solution to depression. Sometimes they cause more problems. Instead attacking the root cause of the depression is far more healing.

If you two stay together, she will be a much happier person if she get out in the world, has healthy interests, has people around her who admire her for her work, etc. This is especially so if you give her support in the way of helping her get out there and getting active. This could translate into a much better home life for you. 


If you decide to divorce her, with your long marriage, you will be paying her alimony for a long time. That could be as much as 40% of your income. 

If she has an income of her own the amount of alimony will greatly decrease or be eliminated all together.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

I'll be blunt is her mouth broken? If she wanted to she could make adjustments.

Problem is most don't..all about them.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> I'll be blunt is her mouth broken? If she wanted to she could make adjustments.
> 
> Problem is most don't..all about them.



My guess is that there is some psychological problem with oral sex. I think I know what you are getting at. Are you getting at, is she using excuses that can be overcome? I do not know and neither do you; the only one that knows is her but her husband probably has a very good idea which it is. Her husband stated


> She has tried many types of therapies, medicinal, psychological, nontraditional treatments, etc. We also tried to work on foreplay in and out of bed.
> 
> She is still willing to have sex, if I ask, but it is painful, artificial lubricants do not help.


That statement above seems to lean in the direction of that she really has some issues with sex that she has not been able to overcome yet. If she is the one that initiated those type therapies that would be very convincing that she is trying and not uses excuses.

Conversely, if she is just using excuses then most would agree that she should get busy with giving him all kinds of sex or be divorced. Many agree that witholding sex for long periods of time is grounds for immediate divorce.

Purple talker has a real hard issue that he is facing


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> maybe you can do ... more with the other issues. What do you think?
> 
> *By Purple talker*
> I'll think about it.
> Even if I am in crisis, and I work on other issues, the sex issue remains, and I'm not ready to give that up, so nothing is resolved.


It will not resolve the amount and kind of sex you are getting. However, if you get better with the other mid-life issues you will be more likely to not be as negatively affected with your unsatisfied sex life with your wife. Additionally, you will likely have a better chance at getting a good marriage partner if you decide to divorce.


----------



## bravenewworld

Wow I really feel for both of you. Your wife has a legitimate medical issue, but giving up sex for the rest of your life is a bitter pill.

I realize this is not a politically correct response, but I have to throw it out there - would she be okay with you having protected sex via an escort? 

I am very monogamous by nature (and jealous!) but if I was unable to perform for medical reasons I would grant my SO that. An escort has no interest in "stealing my man" and the payment takes out the attachment/relationship component. 

Seeing it as a business transaction would be something I could live with, as opposed to my SO having an affair partner, even if it was NSA.


----------



## PurpleTalker

Trying2figureitout said:


> I'll be blunt is her mouth broken? If she wanted to she could make adjustments.
> 
> Problem is most don't..all about them.


She provides fellatio rarely. I believe it has led to orgasm only once. The problem, she claims, is physical, she gags.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PurpleTalker

Mr Blunt said:


> That statement above seems to lean in the direction of that she really has some issues with sex that she has not been able to overcome yet. If she is the one that initiated those type therapies that would be very convincing that she is trying and not uses excuses.



I would not say she initiated therapy because I did. She did set the appointments and she did go. Plus, her therapy did not focus on sexual issues, only psychological issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happy as a clam

I wouldn't blame you one bit if you got out of your marriage. I did, after 20 years. I was married to a very LD partner, there were many other issues besides just no sex, however, sex is a VERY big part of a marriage. Even if intercourse is off the table due to illness, diabetes, ED, you still need a sexual connection IMHO. There are many ways to make love besides intercourse. Sounds like she just doesn't want to be intimate. No sex + no intimacy = ROOMMATES.

Just my 2 cents...


----------



## PurpleTalker

bravenewworld said:


> Wow I really feel for both of you. Your wife has a legitimate medical issue, but giving up sex for the rest of your life is a bitter pill.
> 
> I realize this is not a politically correct response, but I have to throw it out there - would she be okay with you having protected sex via an escort?
> ...
> An escort has no interest in "stealing my man" and the payment takes out the attachment/relationship


No, that was part of the conversation where she said, in the end, that she does not want to share. 
Thank you for your support and post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602

If you are concerned that you will not find sex when you are free, don't let that hold you in an unhappy situation. You will find plenty of woman. If you read in the LAD section of the forum, many men have found partners and are very happy. 

If you stay, do so for strongly positive reasons. You discover a new love and appreciation for your wife and family. You realize that the pursuit of sexual pleasure for yourself is an empty, shallow pursuit. Whatever. You'll live the rest of your life in misery if you stay as a default position. You also do your wife a disservice by making it obvious that she option D and you would be happy if you were elsewhere. She does not deserve that. 

Make up your mind and do it quickly. You are causing your wife great anxiety and pain by your indecision. It has nothing to so with her really. If you were sure you could get sex if you left you would be gone. You will be able to find sex. Please don't let your wife dangle in the breeze while you work up the balls to get out there and take your chances. She did not treat you badly, don't treat her without regard to hurt feelings. 

She may not see D as a good thing at first but I think it will be for her. I hope she will be spurred by the D to do two things that will help her tremendously. Get treatment for her depression and pursue her art. She will be a different person if she could do those two things. 

She may surprise herself. If she is as loving as you make her sound and interested in art, she may be just the woman some man is looking for. A new man may wake her sleeping libido. It happens.


----------



## devotion

happy as a clam said:


> I wouldn't blame you one bit if you got out of your marriage. I did, after 20 years. I was married to a very LD partner, there were many other issues besides just no sex, however, sex is a VERY big part of a marriage. Even if intercourse is off the table due to illness, diabetes, ED, you still need a sexual connection IMHO. There are many ways to make love besides intercourse. Sounds like she just doesn't want to be intimate. No sex + no intimacy = ROOMMATES.
> 
> Just my 2 cents...


Sounds like you could be my ex (except my relationship was 14 years, so luckily you're not, LOL). She said the last line a BUNCH of times near the end, and yeah, she's right. The problem a lot of people have is balancing sex as part of their relationship. People either make it the MOST important thing, or don't make it important enough. 

I was naive enough to believe that hey, if the sex life isn't good, but I'm a good man other wise, then its still a relationship. That's not true. But the flip side is I (and my partner) need to be satisfied with the sex life too, or at least with the effort put in. It is nearly impossible to match up sex drives of two different people; so one person will always want a bit more, the other a bit less. 

In my marriage I was a lot less; now in my new relationship I'm a lot more. I've now taken to communicating my needs and also managing them. For example, I might caress a bit more but understand that it won't always lead to the full monte. On her side she's been more forward and active, so we're both trying. And I emphasize like anything else in the relationship, we have to both try to find the compromise. 

It seems like your wife with her attitude 'divorce me if you must' really is not trying, and that part is hurtful. I second the recommendations to see if you can find a SEX therapist -- they have specific skills and scenarios that might help. If she doesn't want to see that, or you still don't see results afterwards... you might have to do what you have to do. As part of a marriage that demands sexual exclusivity (as yours does) it is really part of her responsibility to satisfy you, and vice versa. 

Good luck!


----------



## PurpleTalker

Yesterday, we entered sex therapy, it was a difficult discussion for both of us. 


EleGirl said:


> If you two stay together, she will be a much happier person if she get out in the world, has healthy interests, has people around her who admire her for her work, etc. This is especially so if you give her support in the way of helping her get out there and getting active. This could translate into a much better home life for you.
> If you decide to divorce her, with your long marriage, you will be paying her alimony for a long time. That could be as much as 40% of your income. If she has an income of her own the amount of alimony will greatly decrease or be eliminated all together.


EleGirl, this is all true, so I ask: how much responsibility do I have to insist she work? When does insisting and supporting become browbeating? Why is it my responsibility to continue insisting? I'm her husband, not her father. 



Catherine602 said:


> If you stay, do so for strongly positive reasons. You discover a new love and appreciation for your wife and family. You realize that the pursuit of sexual pleasure for yourself is an empty, shallow pursuit.


Catherine, very thoughtful and considered response. I appreciate it!

Regarding "pursuit of sexual pleasure for yourself" as empty and shallow: if it's sex for its own sake, I agree. From what's been said here, I understand giving that caution, I'm engaged in changing who I am sexually, but it is a huge undertaking. I'm not a perv or even close, but sex is so amazingly huge for me. It's been difficult for me to even have a small perspective on this. 



devotion said:


> I was naive enough to believe that hey, if the sex life isn't good, but I'm a good man other wise, then its still a relationship. That's not true....
> I've now taken to communicating my needs and also managing them....And I emphasize like anything else in the relationship, we have to both try to find the compromise.


I'm glad to hear someone say that both sex and physical non-sex are important to marriage. As a young man, I easily could have sex a few times per day every day, and wanted it daily. Looking back now I find that stunning because some days one orgasm is a struggle. Engaging in non-sexual physical touch is very difficult for me, and certainly requires management. Still, I have not been out of control, she is the only woman I've copulated, but I did little to manage the non-sexual touching. I believe I can control it, even though it will be a difficult undertaking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TryingTilda

I'm not sure if this is the case for your wife, but I think a lot of things in today's society make women feel ashamed about sex. For example being overweight or not perfect. Plus being sexually assertive is viewed as, well, all kinds of names for that.....
Maybe she could address those deep seated feelings and get back on track that it is about her love for you. That is, if that's how you make her feel.


----------



## PurpleTalker

TryingTilda said:


> That is, if that's how you make her feel.


TryingTilda, would please explain that statement?
Thanks for your input.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602

Purple I'll bet your wife has no idea how close she is to losing you. If she knew, maybe she would be spured to act. Maybe not. You can get an idea of how invested she is in you and the relationship by letting he know how unhappy you are and ask her to work on a plan with you to get out from under. If she is motivated, you will know by positive action. 

Do everything you can within a finite time framework to make a relationship with your wife that makes you both happy. Put yourself into a plan for recovery with your whole being. Give her ample opportunity to buy in. It's up to her to make the choice for treatment. 

If she makes the choice to stay in depression then you can also make a choice. If you decide to pull the plug, you leave a wife who choses to stay depressed when there is no need to do so.


----------



## john117

As someone who will likely pull the plug on a 30+ year marriage in 2-3 years (keep the tuition checks coming!) it's not about the sex. Not for me. For me it's more like this..,

The lack of intimacy creates detachment.

The detachment creates resentment.

The resentment makes you want to rethink whether you're going to spend your golden years together.

The lack of intimacy creates lack of communication and this results in more "I" than "we" when planning for retirement.

Lack of intimacy causes lack of affection and without affection when one of the two partners needs extended care the chance is slim the non affectionate partner will be there to provide it.....


----------



## Catherine602

John I absolutely love your posts. The humor is priceless and full of unforgettable John117ism's. You didn't ask me but I have to say. For all of the humor, something comes to me that I cannot shake. No matter how many times you say that you will leave, I don't think you will in 2 yrs or 5 yrs or even 10 yrs. 

There will always be a reason in your mind to stay. Your humor, interests, love of your daughters and wife will hold you. They are all so lucky to have you. Your daughters have a dad that is so invested in their lives. 

Your wife has a husband who understands her better than she understands herself and still loves her. I have a feeling that those women surrounding you love you very much. They may not understand you as a man but they love you in spite of that.  

Are these positive incentives? To you they may be given other choices. No matter what you decide, I hope you make a choice that references your strength, convictions and happiness.


----------



## john117

There is always a tipping point.

Always.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Yesterday, we entered sex therapy, it was a difficult discussion for both of us.
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by EleGirl
> If you two stay together, she will be a much happier person if she get out in the world, has healthy interests, has people around her who admire her for her work, etc. This is especially so if you give her support in the way of helping her get out there and getting active. This could translate into a much better home life for you.
> If you decide to divorce her, with your long marriage, you will be paying her alimony for a long time. That could be as much as 40% of your income. If she has an income of her own the amount of alimony will greatly decrease or be eliminated all together.
> 
> 
> EleGirl, this is all true, so I ask: how much responsibility do I have to insist she work? When does insisting and supporting become browbeating? Why is it my responsibility to continue insisting? I'm her husband, not her father.


*Purple talker

Would it be wise to have your sex therapist and wife see this thread?*


----------



## PurpleTalker

Mr Blunt said:


> *Purple talker
> 
> Would it be wise to have your sex therapist and wife see this thread?*


I prefer not. Why?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> Purple talker
> 
> Would it be wise to have your sex therapist and wife see this thread?
> 
> 
> BY Purple talker
> I prefer not. Why?


I think you are in a very tough spot. Just trying to think of everything that may help.
*What do you have to loose?*

*Why do you “..perfer not”?*


----------



## john117

I'm not Purple, but feel that with a normal spouse that made the effort sex would not be an issue. Companionship, affection, connection, and intimacy at other levels would be the issue.

If the marriage has other skeletons, you could be having sex like (elder) bunnies, and it still would not work at the end.

All I want right now is in a few years to be able to walk the streets of Krakow, Amsterdam, Grenoble, or Athens and spend hours taking pictures and enjoying the culture. If that also involves my current wife, someone else, or nobody else but my trusted Nikon DSLR, so be it.


----------



## Evinrude58

Just wanted to say that I totally agree with you on the sex thing. It's not just an orgasm, it's the emotional boost of feeling loved and knowing that you're attractive to your wife. Sex with just a person like a pro would seem nauseating to me--- never done it, so I don't really know.
I recently had the oppurtunity for sex with someone other than my wife-we are separated, and couldn't do it. I felt too guilty and I wasn't totally attracted to the person. It would have been just sex and like you, that wasn't what I was needing. She just made me miss my wife more. I'm praying that something will happen for you with your wife. As you have said, it's not just about the sex, it's the love and feeling wanted as a man that you are needing. It is out there, though. And "just a woman" is incredibly easy to find. Finding one that you really like is not easy at all. Jmo


----------



## TryingTilda

Sorry this took so long..you wanted an explanation. What I was trying to say was that I think many women get turned of because of some deep seated shame or they don't feel attractive. I think in order to enjoy sex you have to like yourself and feel attractive. It's hard to let go if you look in the mirror and don't like what you see or if you have negative messages in your head about yourself. There are just so many day-to-day things that make women feel like ****.
You can help her get back into it by helping her feel good about herself and there are so many ways to do that. Remind her having sex with you is about love, not something dirty or wrong. This might be hard for men to understand, but women really need the emotional comfort of feeling loved, respected and attractive in order to satisfy their partner.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> You can help her get back into it by helping her feel good about herself and there are so many ways to do that. Remind her having sex with you is about love, not something dirty or wrong. This might be hard for men to understand, but women really need the emotional comfort of feeling loved, respected and attractive in order to satisfy their partner.



*That is very good information for men to be reminded of!

What does he do if he does that and still the sex problem exsists?*


----------



## clipclop2

What do you mean when you said you have trouble managing non-sexual touch? Did you creep her out being all about sex, being easily aroused and unable to control yourself? 

That would be hard for a woman to get over. Feeling like meat makes many women feel less than.

I'm in the sex=love camp but there is a fine line that can't be crossed. If you were to show that tendency toward other women it further reduces your wife's standing and she would not feel special at all. Even if you had never been with anyone else it shows you want to.


----------



## BostonBruins32

Only thing I find interesting is the impression I get about how "ok with this" she is.. is there a love loss outside of this sexless issue? It sounds like she might have lost some feelings too, meaning that the decision to split could be even easier..


----------



## Search_for_Happiness

I understand the issue of having a sexless relationship. I am in my second marriage and a relationship where sex is bi-annual if I'm lucky. 
I mention that only to say I understand. 
The real point in a 30+ year relationship is companionship. Are there common wants/needs/desires that are fulfilled with or in the other. 
She obviously loves you. She has tried to "fix" the problem to improve the relationship and provide for your needs; not all women, partners, spouses would do this. 
Be thankful for the many years she has given you, even in dis-comfort, in an attempt to provide happiness. Leaving any relationship leaves permanent scars; this break-up would scar many people I'm sure.
You have children(adults) who may or may not understand this decision to separate. It will be more awkward to join "family" planned events.
The second relationship may not deliver all the sex you want/need. 
Most important; in retrospect, at least for me, is the shared goals, passions, hobbies, memories that will outlast the sexual urges. These are the long term qualities that last forever. 
I know my relationship is over because I have no thread of commonality with my wife. We have been progressively moving in opposite directions. If I were in a situation in which I had adult children the decision would be easier. My time is coming; we have no children together and her youngest just graduated high school. 
It's not "just" lack of sex; it's an all out broken relationship.
I know the lack of sex can alter your entire thought process and make everything seem worse. Give an honest assessment/analysis to your relationship. 
Do you enjoy doing anything with your wife that has or will stand the test of time?
Is there love and affection that draws you home or is it so hostile you would rather work or hang-out elsewhere? 
I am not discounting the importance of sex in a marriage, I believe it to be an extremely important means of communicating. It would be a travesty to disassemble a family unit and destroy the shared love of a couple when there are multiple other threads still holding it together.


----------



## PurpleTalker

Thank you john117, Evinrude, TryingTilda, good input each one!



Mr Blunt said:


> *Why do you “..perfer not”?*


I will get to these issues with my wife in different ways. 

Thanks for your input. 



clipclop2 said:


> Did you creep her out being all about sex, being easily aroused and unable to control yourself?
> 
> If you were to show that tendency toward other women it further reduces your wife's standing and she would not feel special at all.


I would not use the word creep, maybe easily aroused. I can control actions, but not erections. She preferred long times of cuddling that aroused me, then no sex. 

There may be an unresolved issue related to her feeling special. I'm ashamed to admit, I had a tendency to have a wandering eye. 

Thanks for your input. 



Search_for_Happiness said:


> Do you enjoy doing anything with your wife that has or will stand the test of time?
> Is there love and affection that draws you home or is it so hostile you would rather work or hang-out elsewhere?


Yes, we enjoy doing things together. No, the home is not hostile. 

Thanks for your input.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TryingTilda

Mr. Blunt (love that moniker)

If she is willing to go to a therapist for the sexual issues at that point they could get help on slowly re-learning how to be sexual. I was seeing a "relationship" counselor for my situation and she brought up sex a lot! She was Ms. Blunt. She said if I decided to stay and stick it out I would have to develop a sexual relationship with him again and she had exercises to re-learn and go slowly. If I decided to stay and he was willing I would've done that. Sometimes I think people can be just confused on the act itself. Don't know what to do, where to touch etc. I'm no expert though.

Mr. Purple...the wandering eye is painful to her. Definitely a mood killer for her. Can you guys talk about that in counseling?


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Trying Tilda
> She said if I decided to stay and stick it out I would have to develop a sexual relationship with him again and she had exercises to re-learn and go slowly. If I decided to stay and he was willing I would've done that. Sometimes I think people can be just confused on the act itself. Don't know what to do, where to touch etc. I'm no expert though.


*TT, you were willing to do your part to make it better. That deserves admiration and respect!*


----------



## clipclop2

Not feeling special is a big issue.

I don't know how you can unring the bell of showing her how unspecial she is when you behave like that. You can't say you didnt mean it. You can't say you are more attracted to her now. 

You pretty much blew it.

A man needs to grow up and not rely on saying sorry all the time.


----------



## PurpleTalker

Clipclop, I know it's totally up to her to forgive me for those, if not then I live with it and make my choices accordingly. Otherwise I think your post is harsh; I mean it was a mistake!


----------



## clipclop2

A repeated mistake is not a mistake. You grew up too late. When you married you did not fulfill your end. She suffered then. You suffer now. It is not harsh. It is reality. You cannot unknow that your husband openly listed for others, that he has so little respect and valued you so little that he would risk you like that. To have him later call that a mistake because he doesn't like the consequences he ultimately suffered is ridiculous.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By ClipClop2
> 
> A repeated mistake is not a mistake. You grew up too late. When you married you did not fulfill your end. She suffered then. You suffer now. It is not harsh. It is reality. You cannot unknow that your husband openly listed for others, that he has so little respect and valued you so little that he would risk you like that. To have him later call that a mistake because he doesn't like the consequences he ultimately suffered is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> *When you married you did not fulfill your end*




I do not know the details of that statement except that ClipClop2 insinuates that Purpletalker hurt his wife in some way earlier in life. Many married couples fail to fulfill their end after 30 years of marriage. *This cannot be overcome at least to some degree?*


It seems like there are a few options now; here they are:

1	The wife makes changes so that the sex will improve

2	She makes no changes in sex life so PurpleTalker forgoes the sex that he wants so that he can salvage what is left in the marriage

3	PurpleTalker divorces her and looks for a wife/GF that provides him with a better sex life. Purple Talker should also weigh the other aspects of a relationship that they can achieve.

4	PurpleTalker stays married to his wife and gets sex from other women



*Are there other options?* I do not see any other options at this time but maybe others can come up with a few.


I hope that some of you can come up with better options because Purpletalker is in real tough spot. He has a lot of time invested in the marriage and probably some good aspects that are still there but sex is very important to some people and that cannot be relegated to a somewhat insignificant issue.


*QUESTION for PurpleTalker

What is your determination; can your wife do better with her sex or is she making some excuses? *


----------



## clipclop2

It is between them. She isn't here so I really don't think we have much of value to provide.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I have a gut feeling this is more of a heart issue.

Intimacy is a heart connection

regardless of what floats around it. 

That is the core....

Therefore... something has jeopardized that heart connection between you and your wife. 

If you are looking to stay with your wife, I would emerse myself in all the wonderful things about her... revv your own heart over all the things you would never find in someone else because she is unique all of her own accord. You would ALWAYS miss something about her. I hear her hurt over you struggling with this. It hurts her to see you hurting. That is pure love and even willing to let you go if need be, that is pure love and that is not just laying around everywhere.

You could have a new woman with a ravenous sex appetite and STILL miss your wife. 

If she is willing to go to a sex therapist to find out how y'all can transition to this new chapter in your lives successfully, jump on it. 

John 117 is correct, there is ALWAYS a tipping point, but what you choose to do and not do can manage how fast that tipping point comes around (ie, ogling other women, fantasy, not counting blessings, arrogance, quitting too soon, etc). Or if it is kept at bay (honoring vows, compassion, consideration, spirit of understanding, faith, patience)... I can't know where you are on that scale and I may be singing to the choir. there are behaviors that will make it come around faster than not. You will probably end up finding yourself assessing in this area a good bit in making this decision. 

I feel for your situation because I have been in a "somewhat" similar situation with my ex.


----------



## clipclop2

It depends on her. He may have blown her love completely.


----------



## stupidman

Correct me if I am wrong. She has a medical condition that makes sex painful but still tried to meet your needs the best she can? You stay, period. Sex is important and is a very big part of my own marital strife. If I felt like she was physically unable to perform the act but still wanted to make me happy the best she could I would would be perfectly happy with that.


----------



## Mr The Other

She can not help her lack of desire, but still gives you sexual relief. She is also attending therapy for a problem that makes your life worse rather than hers. You have a rare woman and one to treasure. Life can be tough, but there is a great deal to be grateful for.


----------



## YummyGirl

Mr Blunt said:


> My guess is that there is some psychological problem with oral sex. I think I know what you are getting at. Are you getting at, is she using excuses that can be overcome? I do not know and neither do you; the only one that knows is her but her husband probably has a very good idea which it is. Her husband stated
> 
> 
> That statement above seems to lean in the direction of that she really has some issues with sex that she has not been able to overcome yet. If she is the one that initiated those type therapies that would be very convincing that she is trying and not uses excuses.


Issues with sex? Excuses? I haven't read this entire thread, but I sure hope someone has explained to you the painful side effects of a hysterectomy.
Can Hysterectomies Hurt Sex Lives? - ABC News

~YG


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *Originally Posted by Mr Blunt *
> My guess is that there is some psychological problem with oral sex. I think I know what you are getting at. Are you getting at, is she using excuses that can be overcome? I do not know and neither do you; the only one that knows is her but her husband probably has a very good idea which it is. Her husband stated
> 
> 
> That statement above seems to lean in the direction of that she really has some issues with sex that she has not been able to overcome yet. If she is the one that initiated those type therapies that would be very convincing that she is trying and not uses excuses.
> 
> *By YummyGirl*
> Issues with sex? Excuses? I haven't read this entire thread, but I sure hope someone has explained to you the painful side effects of a hysterectomy.
> Can Hysterectomies Hurt Sex Lives? - ABC News






> *By Purple Talker*
> BJs are too much for her…..
> 
> sex is so amazingly huge for me
> 
> the sex issue remains, and I'm not ready to give that up, so nothing is resolved



YummyGirl

Do Hysterectomies affect the mouth and BJs?
What solution do you have for PurpleTalker?

It helps when you post to read the whole thread


----------



## clipclop2

Perhaps they effect desire and the brain which affects everything.


----------



## Runs like Dog

I have to wonder what OP thinks the upside looks like. What is a 'fix'? You can't remake an entire person over so what is a solution to this, in theory? I suppose after a quarter century you could look at this like a medical issue. Given that, what if some MD told you the fix was surgical and that it was at best 50% successful and success was deemed a 50% improvement in desire and performance? What if the remedy was hormones and brain surgery? My point is, how far are willing to go and what does the threshold of success mean?


----------



## YummyGirl

Mr Blunt said:


> YummyGirl
> 
> Do Hysterectomies affect the mouth and BJs?
> What solution do you have for PurpleTalker?
> 
> It helps when you post to read the whole thread


Gee, Mr. Blunt, I'm guessing you didn't even bother to look at the article. 
I didn't read the whole thread, but I skimmed it. 
From the article:
"'...the loss of the uterus and cervix has a big effect on sexual response.'
'The women are writing that the loss of the cervix is huge,' she said. 'That they can't get triggered into orgasm without the exquisite sensitiveness of all those nerve endings in the cervix. That the loss of the orgasmic response of the uterus and its contraction is huge.'
In fact, many gynecologists don't know much about women's sexuality. One of the few experts in this field, Dr. Irwin Goldstein, a urologist who founded the Institute for Sexual Medicine at Boston University School of Medicine, paints a bleak picture of how little experts know about female sexual response.
'We have no data on the nerves as they come from the uterus to the vagina. We are dying to study this. We would love to have these mapped out. So we don't have the information,' Goldstein said."

Now, I don't know if PurpleTalker's wife has tried hormones; I believe he mentioned that she had, which seems to be the only thing that helps many women after a hysterectomy has caused pain/nerve damage.

~YG

P.S. Thank you for getting it, clipclop2!


----------



## WorkingOnMe

YummyGirl, as MrBlunt asked, what solution do you propose?


----------



## Catherine602

Mr Blunt said:


> I do not know the details of that statement except that ClipClop2 insinuates that Purpletalker hurt his wife in some way earlier in life. Many married couples fail to fulfill their end after 30 years of marriage. *This cannot be overcome at least to some degree?*
> 
> 
> It seems like there are a few options now; here they are:
> 
> 1	The wife makes changes so that the sex will improve
> 
> 2	She makes no changes in sex life so PurpleTalker forgoes the sex that he wants so that he can salvage what is left in the marriage
> 
> 3	PurpleTalker divorces her and looks for a wife/GF that provides him with a better sex life. Purple Talker should also weigh the other aspects of a relationship that they can achieve.
> 
> 4	PurpleTalker stays married to his wife and gets sex from other women
> 
> 
> 
> *Are there other options?* I do not see any other options at this time but maybe others can come up with a few.
> 
> 
> I hope that some of you can come up with better options because Purpletalker is in real tough spot. He has a lot of time invested in the marriage and probably some good aspects that are still there but sex is very important to some people and that cannot be relegated to a somewhat insignificant issue.
> 
> 
> *QUESTION for PurpleTalker
> 
> What is your determination; can your wife do better with her sex or is she making some excuses? *


5. Mrs PT gets sex from anther man

6. Mrs PT gets a D

7. Mr and Mrs PT work to resolve past and present issues, each taking responsibility for their part


----------



## Catherine602

Mr Blunt said:


> YummyGirl
> 
> Do Hysterectomies affect the mouth and BJs?
> What solution do you have for PurpleTalker?
> 
> It helps when you post to read the whole thread


It would be a harder sell to convince that her mouth is a sexual organ. She won't get any pleasure or have orgasms from PIM sex. You wouldn't give your wife orgasms with your fingers, would you? Besides, he seems to be looking for more than a warm orifice to stick it in.


----------



## AVR1962

Sorry to hear this but I am not so sure it is too awfully uncommon. My first husband wanted sex all the time and his complaint was that I didn't go to him. He never gave me rest enough to seek him, plain and simple.

My second husband who I have been married to for 22 years is much like your wife, he is not the initiator, so I get what you are saying and it is frustrating. I have a need for touch and connection but my husband is emotionally unavailable.

My choices look the same as yours however I have been there before and I know the whole divorce picture and I can tell you it is not a pretty one. I am fortunate to have 2 wonderful daughters who have accepted their stepdad but my husband has 2 sons that never accepted me. More than likely you will move on and so will your wife, you will each meet other partners and remarry and then you become the blended family and that brings issues and with those issues brings hard feelings and emotional separation.

Find a way to make yourself happy. Honestly once a week is not bad. Husband and I have not had sex for 8 months, I stopped going to him. Yep, imagine that! You could have it worse and your next wife could be the one to show that to you.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Working on Me
> *YummyGirl, as Mr. Blunt asked, what solution do you propose? *



I guess Yummy Girl does not like to respond to questions that relate to the thread.

Here is another one that she failed to answer



> *“Do Hysterectomies affect the mouth and BJs?”*


----------



## Mr Blunt

> It seems like there are a few options now; here they are:
> 
> 1 The wife makes changes so that the sex will improve
> 
> 2 She makes no changes in sex life so PurpleTalker forgoes the sex that he wants so that he can salvage what is left in the marriage
> 
> 3 PurpleTalker divorces her and looks for a wife/GF that provides him with a better sex life. Purple Talker should also weigh the other aspects of a relationship that they can achieve.
> 
> 4 PurpleTalker stays married to his wife and gets sex from other women
> 
> 
> 
> Are there other options? I do not see any other options at this time but maybe others can come up with a few.
> 
> 
> I hope that some of you can come up with better options because Purpletalker is in real tough spot. He has a lot of time invested in the marriage and probably some good aspects that are still there but sex is very important to some people and that cannot be relegated to a somewhat insignificant issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *By Catherine*
> 5. Mrs PT gets sex from anther man
> 
> 6. Mrs PT gets a D
> 
> 7. Mr and Mrs PT work to resolve past and present issues, each taking responsibility for their part




Catherine
Your number 6 and 7 options above seem like possible solutions. Your number 5 makes no sense since sex for her is painful!




> *By Purple talker*
> Having sex for her is painful and with little pleasure.













> *By Catherine*
> It would be a harder sell to convince that her mouth is a sexual organ. She won't get any pleasure or have orgasms from PIM sex. You wouldn't give your wife orgasms with your fingers, would you? Besides, he seems to be looking for more than a warm orifice to stick it in.


Since virginal sex is painful for her (Mrs. Purple Talker) I was looking for a compromise (BJs) so that the compromise may help keep the couple together.


----------



## Mr Blunt

For those ladies that keep pointing out that she has a medical condition that affects her sexual responses; I GET IT! For those that suggest that she get sex from another man I DO NOT GET THAT, it makes no since for someone that avoids sex due to pain to go get sex from someone other than her husband.


It seems that Mrs. PurpleTalker only gets pleasure out of her being cuddled by PurpleTalker but wants no type of sex with him. I can understand the PIV sex being ruled out but perhaps BJs can be a compromise. Yes I know that a BJ will not fix all problems but it maybe enough to keep them together.


WorkingOnMe posted a post that seems to ask a great question. Assuming that Mrs. Purple Talker is doing everything possible to help her husband with the sex issue but for legitimate reasons she cannot provide him the sex then WorkingOnMe asks:


> *“What kind of man are you? *


This question is asking Purple Talker to consider the ethical question of his commitment; specifically it is related to the vow of “For better or for worse”

Many will agree that the ethical thing to do is for Purple Talker to suppress his sex life because of an ethical vow. *That is very admirable but how many of you will do that?*

Here is a real life situation that I have witnessed. John was in his 30s when he had a medical situation that caused him to have a very high fever for a long time. John became unable to work, lost a lot of his mental capabilities, and was able to do very little except to walk the dogs. John and his wife had 5 children. Should Mrs. John, a SAHM, go to work and live the rest of her life working, caring for the children and not getting much at all from John? Should Mrs. John divorce John and find another man that would be capable to do the things that John could not do? The ethical question is again presented. *What would you do?*


It seems to me that a healthy man that has to suppress his sex life in marriage will often find another way to get sex. *I am not saying that is ethical, I am saying that is reality.* That is why I was trying to find a way for then to compromise and stay together and why I have asked everyone here to present your solutions.


----------



## Catherine602

Mr Blunt said:


> Catherine
> Your number 6 and 7 options above seem like possible solutions. Your number 5 makes no sense since sex for her is painful!
> Since virginal sex is painful for her (Mrs. Purple Talker) I was looking for a compromise (BJs) so that the compromise may help keep the couple together.


Mr Blunt my question is how to get a solution that is sustainable for both of them in the long run. 

Using mouths and hands sound reasonable but they both have those. It would be more emotionally satisfying for them to concentrate on sexual solutions that are mutually satisfying. There are lots of things that two people can do with their mouths and hands. Bj's may seem like she is rendering a service so they stay married. They both have to solve this not just her. 

If he had back pain and couldn't perform would it be fair to ask him to give her oral and she ignore a perfectly functioning penis?


----------



## Mr The Other

Catherine602 said:


> It would be a harder sell to convince that her mouth is a sexual organ. She won't get any pleasure or have orgasms from PIM sex. You wouldn't give your wife orgasms with your fingers, would you? Besides, he seems to be looking for more than a warm orifice to stick it in.


While I accept the jist of your post, I hope most men would be happy to use their fingers or mouth if the roles were reversed. I would hav every little respect for a man who would not.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> 
> Catherine
> Your number 6 and 7 options above seem like possible solutions. Your number 5 makes no sense since sex for her is painful!
> Since virginal sex is painful for her (Mrs. Purple Talker) I was looking for a compromise (BJs) so that the compromise may help keep the couple together.
> 
> 
> 
> *By Catherine*
> Mr Blunt my question is how to get a solution that is sustainable for both of them in the long run.


That is a great goal and a great question but no one has found the solution for that yet. At least a solution that Purple Talker has told us he has enacted.





> Using mouths and hands sound reasonable but they both have those. It would be more emotionally satisfying for them to concentrate on sexual solutions that are mutually satisfying. There are lots of things that two people can do with their mouths and hands. Bj's may seem like she is rendering a service so they stay married. They both have to solve this not just her.


I agree that they both should be using their hands and mouths for mutual satisfaction. However, it seems by reading Purple Talker’s posts that she can not or will not be involved with BJs

My guess would be that Purple Talker is willing to do just about anything she would want for her stimulations including emotional stimulations. The reason I say this is because he has suggested and paid for a whole lot of therapies



> *By Purple Talker*
> She has tried many types of therapies, medicinal, psychological, nontraditional treatments, etc. We also tried to work on foreplay in and out of bed.





> *By Catherine*
> If he had back pain and couldn't perform would it be fair to ask him to give her oral and she ignore a perfectly functioning penis?


I am not exactly sure the point that you are making but I think that I answered that in my last response to you





Actually Catherine I think you gave some real good advice earlier in this thread. You said:





> *By Catherine*
> *Get treatment for her depression and pursue her art*. She will be a different person if she could do those two things.
> 
> She may surprise herself. If she is as loving as you make her sound and interested in art, she may be just the woman some man is looking for. A new man may wake her sleeping libido. It happens.
> 
> 
> *Do everything you can within a finite time framework to make a relationship with your wife that makes you both happy.* Put yourself into a plan for recovery with your whole being. Give her ample opportunity to buy in. It's up to her to make the choice for treatment.
> 
> 
> *If she makes the choice to stay in depression then you can also make a choice. If you decide to pull the plug, you leave a wife who chooses to stay depressed when there is no need to do so.*


Purple talker has been given good advice by you and others. Since Purple Talker has not been on his own thread for over month my guess is that he is no longer interested in our advice. I hope that he and his wife take the advice that you have given above so that they can “…get a solution that is sustainable for both of them in the long run. “ 

We can hope for that but I would not bet a lot of money on them succeeding. Breaking a habit that has been around for over 20 years is very difficult especially when you have depression and sexual problems in the mix.


----------



## NotEZ

I appreciate all the advice I read on this site, thats why I spend so much time reading here. However, I SOMETIMES feel that the advice that is given is not overly helpful or realistic.

There are some situations that are hard to REALLY understand. When people come here having been cheated on, for example, people can understand it enough to give advice, whether they've been there or not. Just like those with sick children or something... we can all emphasize even if we don't know EXACTLY what it feels like.

In more difficult situations where illness or sexual issues like the above arise, its not so simple. When people post "I get no sex, my spouse refuses" there are one heck of a lot of "move on" or "divorce" posts. Sex is a part of marriage if one partner is willfully withholding, it breaks the marriage vows. You always here the caveat "if there is a health related problem, its different". The problem I have, is that its bunch of people telling what they would do in a "hypothetical" situation. "Of course, I would support my partner if we could never have sex again, no question". Its super easy to say that WHEN YOU DON'T FACE IT.

I am 31 years old. I've been with my husband 16 years. He is very sick. I get attempted sex... attempted in that we have approx 2 mins before he's rolling on the floor in pain and then, when he can get up, he pukes. But he comes back afterwards... in the eyes of many that should be good enough right? I don't blame him AT ALL. I know what he deals with.

In fact he was just got out of the hospital. He went in on July 27th. He is out now, but immobile for 6 weeks after he got his 2nd hip replacement (this one unplanned). He is 37. I have been the sole financial provider for the last 7 years. While he was in the hospital and now, for the next 6 months, I am/have been essentially a single parent with added responsibility of being at the hospital and now, getting him anything he needs. 

He is an amazing father and an amazing person. Someone I am lucky to have in my life. That doesn't change the fact that the only temporary thing in this situation is that he can't drive our kids to school. Once he is recovered, I will still deal with attempted sex that, unfortunately, leaves me feeling horrible. No matter how much you tell yourself what is really going on, someone puking everytime they ATTEMPT sex with you, takes a toll. And it always ends with me wanting sex, just like I did before we started, because its been YEARS that I got anymore than an attempt. But its not his fault.

I spent 5 days in the hospital in February, went in on valentines night, with an ectopic pregnancy. My parents had to take the kids and he spent about 2 hours with me after I first went in before he had to go home for his dialysis. I spent all the testing, surgery, etc. by myself. I told him about it afterwards when he came to visit. 

There is no answer to this. He is an Amazing person. He is an amazing father. He is all I could ask for. Yet, I am the only person I can rely on for emotional, sexual or financial needs. I am empty and hurting for anything else. I'm also an honerable person with a lot of love for my husband so I've never cheated and have a very hard time even imagining leaving him. Everything I read here says that I am what everyone else "would" do. But it is literally killing me to be everything for someone that can (literally) be nothing to me. 

There is a huge distinction between a person that CAN'T fill your needs and a person that "WON'T" fill them. But there is NO difference in what the OTHER spouse feels. Unfullfilled needs are unfullfilled needs. The ONLY difference is some can leave and some can not. It makes me feel resentful and angry at times too. Just like if my spouse was an uncaring a$$hat. But I can't do anything because I'd be leaving a great man, who loves me and our children like nothing else. A man I love more than anything. I'm NOT happy. I'm truly not. I'm wanting for the most basic of things in a marriage. But I can't and don't fault him for that, so I'd be walking away from a man I am totally happy with to get basic needs met. I literally have to decide whats more important to me... my husband who I love or sexual and financial support, with the occasional emotional support if whatever ails me doesn't interfere with his medical needs, thrown in. 

Healthy people suffer in these situations too... thats normally lost on most. And its a huge source of guilt to want for oneself when they see the person they love most suffering. Its one situation where its a decision between you or your spouse and there isn't much room for compromise.


----------



## Mr Blunt

NotEZ

I can see why your name is NotEZ!!!

You are deprived of emotional and financial support and sexual fulfillment. In your case I have no answer. As you have said your husband is a good man, good father and loves you but really that is not all what marriage was meant to be.

Yes it is easy for us who are not in your condition to tell you to be satisfied because a good mate and love is everything. Well it is not everything IMO.

I have a lot of empathy for you but I now my empathy will not do one thing for what you are lacking. I know of two women that lived their life without sex, or emotional and financial support from their husbands and I am amazed!



> *By NotEZ*
> The problem I have, is that its bunch of people telling what they would do in a "hypothetical" situation. "Of course, I would support my partner if we could never have sex again, no question". It’s super easy to say that WHEN YOU DON'T FACE IT.


You are so right NotEZ and that is why I asked the question in my earlier post of 



> Many will agree that the ethical thing to do is for Purple Talker to suppress his sex life because of an ethical vow. That is very admirable but how many of you will do that?



*So far no one has answered!*


----------



## AVR1962

NotEZ said:


> I appreciate all the advice I read on this site, thats why I spend so much time reading here. However, I SOMETIMES feel that the advice that is given is not overly helpful or realistic.
> 
> There are some situations that are hard to REALLY understand. When people come here having been cheated on, for example, people can understand it enough to give advice, whether they've been there or not. Just like those with sick children or something... we can all emphasize even if we don't know EXACTLY what it feels like.
> 
> In more difficult situations where illness or sexual issues like the above arise, its not so simple. When people post "I get no sex, my spouse refuses" there are one heck of a lot of "move on" or "divorce" posts. Sex is a part of marriage if one partner is willfully withholding, it breaks the marriage vows. You always here the caveat "if there is a health related problem, its different". The problem I have, is that its bunch of people telling what they would do in a "hypothetical" situation. "Of course, I would support my partner if we could never have sex again, no question". Its super easy to say that WHEN YOU DON'T FACE IT.
> 
> I am 31 years old. I've been with my husband 16 years. He is very sick. I get attempted sex... attempted in that we have approx 2 mins before he's rolling on the floor in pain and then, when he can get up, he pukes. But he comes back afterwards... in the eyes of many that should be good enough right? I don't blame him AT ALL. I know what he deals with.
> 
> In fact he was just got out of the hospital. He went in on July 27th. He is out now, but immobile for 6 weeks after he got his 2nd hip replacement (this one unplanned). He is 37. I have been the sole financial provider for the last 7 years. While he was in the hospital and now, for the next 6 months, I am/have been essentially a single parent with added responsibility of being at the hospital and now, getting him anything he needs.
> 
> He is an amazing father and an amazing person. Someone I am lucky to have in my life. That doesn't change the fact that the only temporary thing in this situation is that he can't drive our kids to school. Once he is recovered, I will still deal with attempted sex that, unfortunately, leaves me feeling horrible. No matter how much you tell yourself what is really going on, someone puking everytime they ATTEMPT sex with you, takes a toll. And it always ends with me wanting sex, just like I did before we started, because its been YEARS that I got anymore than an attempt. But its not his fault.
> 
> I spent 5 days in the hospital in February, went in on valentines night, with an ectopic pregnancy. My parents had to take the kids and he spent about 2 hours with me after I first went in before he had to go home for his dialysis. I spent all the testing, surgery, etc. by myself. I told him about it afterwards when he came to visit.
> 
> There is no answer to this. He is an Amazing person. He is an amazing father. He is all I could ask for. Yet, I am the only person I can rely on for emotional, sexual or financial needs. I am empty and hurting for anything else. I'm also an honerable person with a lot of love for my husband so I've never cheated and have a very hard time even imagining leaving him. Everything I read here says that I am what everyone else "would" do. But it is literally killing me to be everything for someone that can (literally) be nothing to me.
> 
> There is a huge distinction between a person that CAN'T fill your needs and a person that "WON'T" fill them. But there is NO difference in what the OTHER spouse feels. Unfullfilled needs are unfullfilled needs. The ONLY difference is some can leave and some can not. It makes me feel resentful and angry at times too. Just like if my spouse was an uncaring a$$hat. But I can't do anything because I'd be leaving a great man, who loves me and our children like nothing else. A man I love more than anything. I'm NOT happy. I'm truly not. I'm wanting for the most basic of things in a marriage. But I can't and don't fault him for that, so I'd be walking away from a man I am totally happy with to get basic needs met. I literally have to decide whats more important to me... my husband who I love or sexual and financial support, with the occasional emotional support if whatever ails me doesn't interfere with his medical needs, thrown in.
> 
> Healthy people suffer in these situations too... thats normally lost on most. And its a huge source of guilt to want for oneself when they see the person they love most suffering. Its one situation where its a decision between you or your spouse and there isn't much room for compromise.


Sorry to hear what you have been thru. Even though what you both are dealing with at such a young age might be extraordinary for the age, I do think most marriages go thru struggles of some sort (in reference to the OP). I think it is matter sometimes of what we each make of our own situations.


----------



## clipclop2

Dumb question. Why were you pregnant if he can't have sex and why would you not be on birth control if you are so miserable?


----------



## NotEZ

*Re: Re: Divorce after 30+ yrs over sexual dysfunction?*



clipclop2 said:


> Dumb question. Why were you pregnant if he can't have sex and why would you not be on birth control if you are so miserable?


Assuming you are talking to me... you must not have read correctly as i said that my husband gets debililitating pain and physically ill when we have sex. Or he does anything that causes his heart rate to rise.

He still tries, we just never get very far.

As for birth control, i've had an IUD since my husband went into kidney failure in 2010 and we decided we were done with kids. Your guess as to how i had any type of pregnancy while on it is as good as mine, though I am 100% sure that it is the reason the pregnancy was ectopic.


----------



## clipclop2

Seems like getting fixed might be a better option for him than risk you getting pregnant.


----------



## NotEZ

clipclop2 said:


> Seems like getting fixed might be a better option for him than risk you getting pregnant.


I don't know if you are trying to help me or if I somehow gave you the impression that I'm stupid, but its been nearly 7 months since I had the ectopic pregnancy. We took care of it a long time ago.

Thank you for the advice if it was sincere, though.


----------



## clipclop2

I realize that you are angry. You are beyond fatigued. 

do you have external help at all? 

you clearly feel trapped and are good person. but you sound like you're at a breaking point. 

regarding what you came to say which appears to be that the people that say if a spouse t get sick that's different that they really don't understand what they're saying that maybe true. But if anything you are an example of what they're saying. I don't think anyone said it is easy to accept. but they are saying that it is an obligation that you took on when you got married because nobody can foresee the future. 

or perhaps you are angry because you feel that people who say things like that are part of what prevents you from leaving. Because you don't want the judgement of these people on you. 

I'm sure no matter what I say you're going to snipe back so I'm going to wish you luck and hope that you find some relief in some way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NotEZ

I wasnt meaning to snipe at you. I read it as you taking one tiny part of my story and criticizing me for not "preventing" it. Probably the way i internalize things and who knows, maybe the way i feel too. I thought it was the best option for us and clearly it wasnt.

And yes, I am breaking. Sometimes Im fine and sometimes I am not. I am not staying with my husband because of what other people would think. Im staying because i love him. The part im struggling with is how to balance being everything I need to be for him and our family with what i need for me. 

Anyways, it doesnt matter. Ive survived this long and i will continue too. I value work even more now.

And not that it makes a difference, but we arent legally married... we are common-law. Having 2 kids and living together for last 14 years.


----------



## clipclop2

Of course it matters! You have a lot of people depending on you. If you are empty and broken everyone feels it.

DK if you want to start your own thread or not. 

Do you get any time to yourself?


----------



## happy as a clam

Looks like OP is long gone...


----------



## clipclop2

Good point.


----------



## NotEZ

I've started threads a couple times in the past but I find there isn't a lot of advice because my situation isn't as "cut and dry" (so to speak) as a lot of stories are. In no way do I mean that in a way that minimizes the problems that anyone else has in their marriage and/or life, but advice is easier to give (not necessarily, take lol) for situations that lots of other people here have experienced or situations that CAN be changed.

I know that "I" can change the way I think, the way I react, etc. But the core of the situation, his being sick, won't ever change. I don't know how to stop myself from continuing to want for "regular" things (sex, support, family vacations, etc) in life. I don't know if anyone else can either. 

Part of the problem that I have is that it is a horrible cycle in which I want for things and then beat myself down for wanting them in the face of what he deals with. Because I know what a great person he is and I know he would give me the world if he could, he just can't.

We have been together since I was 15 years old. Our relationship was horrible to begin with, but we grew up. Unfortunately, as we did, he got sicker and sicker. And at the same time we gradually got to a more stable, "normal" relationship, we began to decline into this world that revolves around his illness. There was no point in between that we just were. I always thought we/I could handle it all. I remember years ago, around 25/26 having my boss ask me how I deal with it all (they knew because he's hospitalized in an instant and often it was middle of the night where I can't arrange daycare for work the next morning). My answer was "I don't know what its like to be in a relationship where he isn't sick". 

I took it all in stride, or thought I was, for a long long time. But I wasn't. In 2011, a year after he had gone into kidney failure, I fell apart. I don't know if it was gradual or quick because I didn't even realize it was happening. I pulled away, began spending a lot of time by myself in the bedroom. I didn't see what was happening at the time... I thought I was doing everything that I needed to. I was working a great job, I made sure to take time off or arrange for babysitting for his appointments, I was doing everything I could. When I was snappy, Its because I was tired. When I cried all the way to work every day, it was because I was stressed. Everything went on like it always had.

Until he left. He left because he couldn't deal with me anymore. I was depressed and it made life very difficult for him. So he left. He didn't "ditch" me, just wasn't with me. He took the bus every morning to watch the kids and "home" every night. He made supper before he left and stayed over if I wanted to go out with the people from work on the weekends. I went to councilling, got on anti-depressants.... I struggled huge for a couple months. I could not understand how he could walk on me for being depressed when I NEVER walked away from him.

When I pulled out of it, thanks in very large part to my dad's unbelievable support (he literally stopped on his way home every single day to make sure I ate and then would talk on the phone with me all night), I felt nothing but guilt... yet again. I fought for over a year to get better and to get him back.
It happened. We got back together about 14 months after we first separated. At first, everything was great. I was unwaveringly and happily supportive.... trying to make up for my "unsupportiveness" I guess. 

Now I feel its happening all over again. Not the depression. I don't think that I am depressed. I've been very conscious of that risk... I don't feel the same way I did then. Which was essentially nothing. Now instead, I am feeling all kind of things and I'm fighting against my feelings. All I cared about when we were separated was getting back to a place where I can support him like I should be. Thats what my councilling sessions were about... him/us but never me. I think I should have made it about me. 

I've lived over half of my life for him and/or our family (I had our first at 20). He's been sick and getting sicker the entire time. I made my entire life about supporting him/us and I don't even know what I can do to help myself because the only ME I know that doesn't revolve around that was 15 years old. I've always been the "supportive wife" to my "sick husband". I don't know any other way and I don't know what to do with the feelings of wanting to be something more than that.

It really bothers me when people (in real life) say "I don't know how you do it", "your so strong", etc. Because I'm really not. I'm not at ALL. I don't have a choice but I want to have a choice. I want it to be ok for me to fall apart. I want it to be ok for me to struggle with the weight of everything. I want it to be ok for me to be anything other than a rock. I'm not a rock, Im breakable too.


----------



## clipclop2

I think you know what to do.

You have to be more supportive of yourself. If for instance, your husband could live on his own and still come around to take care of the kids etc. he has a lot of strength in him. He needs your help and love but he doesn't need you to deny yourself everything. 

It is ok if you are not a rock. It is ok to want things and to give yourself rest and peace and excitement.

You seem to think you are wrong no matter what you do. How about doing what you do and give yourself credit for doing your best?

What logistics prevent you from going on a family vacation?

When is the last time you had any sort of vacation?


----------



## NotEZ

I do things for myself at times. I go out every once in a while. I like to go for a beer and play pool with the people from work, that sort of thing. He is perfectly fine with me doing it and encourages it. It would be nice if he would ever come with me, but he won't. I understand that it might not be very fun for him but at the same time, it would be nice to be able to do something I enjoy WITH him. 

As for vacations, it his primarily his dialysis but other things too. The amount of supplies he requires per night makes travelling very tricky. We did go with the rest of my family to a reunion/lake trip earlier this year. My cousin came home after a year of teaching in dubai so we were meeting at the lake they used to live at. We travelled with the rest of my family. We went for 4 days, which required his machine and 12 Boxes of supplies. There were 11 of us in 3 vehicles with one camper and 2 boats and we had to spread his stuff around with some in every vehicle on the way there just to fit it with everyones luggage. It was a lot of fun but he missed a lot of it too. We all went out fishing on the boats one day. He stayed at the cabin because he still had a couple hours to go on his dialysis when we left. We went back to get him afterwards and he came out for a bit but it started raining and was cold so we had to take him back. 

The nature of his illness is such that any time his body has to regulate itself against certain conditions (weather, dust, etc), he risks going into a crises. This, along with his dialysis, and the fact that he can't walk around for long periods, makes vacation choices extremely limited. 

I went camping with my dad, sisters, brother-in-law and the kids again a couple of weekends ago. It was absolutely great. I actually got to "really" camp (ie: sleep in a tent... I can't do that with him because he needs space and electricity for his machine) and while it was a family vacation, he wasn't there. 

I would love to go on a holiday.. a cruise, disney, mexico... anything. But he just wouldn't be able to go with me. A romantic vacation is, to me, something I only see in movies. 

It actually sounds quite petty when I put it in writing lol. There are millions of people that never get to do those things with healthy spouses either. I think I'm just in a period of feeling sorry for myself. Its been a long hard 2 months. I just imagine how great it would be to be able to do those things and it makes me sad to know I will never have that with him.


----------



## clipclop2

Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner.

Have you considered mailing the supplies to your destination so you don't have to carry them?

What does he like to do that you could do with your work friends and him besides pool? 

Does he use a wheel chair at all?


----------



## NotEZ

Funny I saw this almost as you posted. I haven't been here much the last few days because I think reading here (which I do to learn, as well as for a distraction) has been making BOTH my want for things and my guilt, worse. I read all types of situations and I go from feeling so lucky to have the man I have, and how much worse it can be than my situation... to reading all the great stories and wishing we had that life or that we/I had the same CHOICES to make when it comes to making our relationship work. 

The thing that drove me here today was getting a text message at work at 2 from my husband (3 weeks removed from a 6 week hospital stay and sudden hip replacement) stating he was in the ER with our 4 year old. I rushed down there and it was literally the worst I've ever seen him. I've seen him in all kinds of pain. In just the last 6 months alone we've had 3 hospitalizations from pain due to crises, 2 ER visits because his heart beats out of control and the last, which we thought was a crises, ends up in a 6 week stay and surgery. That is ONLY 6 months... we've been together 16 years. I've seen it all.

Until today. He had so much pain in his head and neck that he laid there crying and groaning like I've NEVER SEEN. I had no idea what to do. Our 4 year old daughter was with us. She stays home with him when she doesn't go to school because I'm at work. I was absolutely helpless but, again, forced to keep a smile on my face for her while being supportive of him.

It was a brain aneurysm. I can do nothing at the hospital, so I am here with our girls... trying to keep a smile on my face. I am trying to distract myself from the worry, the what ifs, and the not being able to do anything. I am trying to keep myself from falling apart because my girls need me. Reading here or guitar hero are my usual "distractions" but my hand is bruised since guitar hero has been my choice for the last two days prior to this, so here I am 

Reading your response (and my previous post), I know that my problem is NOT really vacations. Its anything and everything that I can use as an excuse when all I really want is the right to fall apart. I don't want, and don't know how, to continue keeping a smile on my face in every situation. I know I have to be strong for him and for our kids, but I'm really really tired of being strong.

I want to not have to worry like this, I want to not have to hide my feelings like this. As selfish as it sounds, given the situation, I want the same right as everyone else has to feel what they feel. I don't have that because someone always NEEDS me to be something more than what I naturally am. I know every parent has to do this for there kids, I know that. I know every partner would do this in this situation, I know that. That is where the selfishness comes in... I don't ever NOT have this situation. Even when there isn't a medical emergency, I have to keep my mouth shut about all the things that do bother me because it is EXTREMELY unfair to unload on my PARTNER, who can't help the fact he is sick, about all the ways I suffer due to his sickness.

I doubt there is a single person here who, if in the same situation I am in now, would want the same thing I do right now. Because do you know what I want, and have for the last 5 hours? I want to go to bed, wake up and go to work. I want to do anything other than sit here with a fake smile and wait for some unknown result. I want to send the kids to school and go on about life like nothing is happening because it is a billion times easier to pretend to be fine while going about everyday life than it is to sit here with a fake smile, finding ways to distract myself from the fact that everything is NOT fine.


But, to answer your questions, no... there is nothing outside of this house that he ever wants to do. Its not a matter of him not wanting to play pool... he literally doesn't go out with me or his friends. He wants to do things as a family only. On occasion we will go out for supper or something, but he literally wants for nothing. I've asked him over and over. He does not want to leave the house. Before you ask, yes, I have absolutely considered he might be depressed. I've actually thought that for many years, even before it hit me. We've talked about it, he says absolutely not... he's strong and has the choice, and he refuses to go to councilling for himself. I can't do anything about that.

We were going to couples councilling. Our last appointment was July 23rd but he's either been in the hospital or incapacitated since then. I personally don't think our current counciller is going to help a bit since its all about communication (important, no doubt) but we are facing situations that neither of us know how to navigate and I think, though I could be wrong, that that is a bigger concern for us as a couple. 

For vacation, yes, we can actually have baxter (the company that orders/delivers his supplies) deliver his supplies almost anywhere in the world... we just need to give one month notice and an EXACT address. Doesn't work well with our vacations because almost all of them are camping and close to home... we don't have that information a month in advance. We can not leave the country because he can't get travel insurance and often ends up in the hospital at the drop of a dime, which would KILL us financially if it was anywhere but here (Canada). 

He does not use a wheel chair, but in most cases I don't think it would help either. If it were a situation where physical exertion was the only drawback then absolutely he should and would use one. Cold/hot temperatures is huge to his health as well, and, while we could definately find things indoor to do, there really isn't a lot of "indoor" that would interest us as a family (not as a couple lol). Of course, I do acknowledge that our "choice" of outdoor activities does not mean we "can't" find things that he/us could do. That is true.

I'm a mess


----------

