# Duty sex: Have I made a mistake?



## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

Her: 30, Me: 36. Married 3 years together 5.

A couple days ago I had a discussion with my wife. I told her that I do not want sex, regardless of who initiates, if it is only to please me. If we do it then it needs to happen because we are both interested in it. I went further and told her that on the occasions she seems to derive little pleasure from it, and it is only for my benefit, that it feels like a rejection to me. I do not want duty sex. I explained that I was not angry or upset. And that I appreciate the fact she does things to please me.

Should I have even brought this up and communicated with her directly about it? Or would a better approach have been to decline sex when I feel like she is doing it out of "duty" and not because she's in the mood? To not talk about it?

After reading so many threads here the last few days I wonder if I'm being hyper-sensitive about sending messages of insecurity to her. Specifically when I flat admitted to feeling rejected in these situations.

Example of duty sex:
Wife does not ever get into it during the morning. However on weekends if I wake up with wood and ask for it she typically obliges. But she never gets into it and pretty much just wants me to hurry up and get through it so we can get out of bed and get going.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm generally in favor of being honest with your partner. It helps in understanding, which is a good first step. You've given her a lot to think about.

What are you expecting will happen now?

You might be interested in this thread - similar situation, but from the wife's perspective:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/58877-how-do-i-make-myself-want-sex.html


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Some people aren't in the mood in the morning. At least she is taking care of that need for you. Many women just push their men away and laugh.


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

I tend to agree that communication and honesty should always win out. That's what I thought was right. But after doing a lot of reading I'm getting the impression that a man should hide his insecurities and avoid doing or saying anything that makes him look weak to his wife. So in the end no, you can't really talk about anything and everything with her. Disappointing but if it's the truth I can't change that.

I certainly do appreciate the fact that when she engages in sex to only please me she does it because she loves me and is being nice. I told her as much. Laughed at would be a bit much but being put off seems better to me. I feel emasculated in these types of my benefit only encounters.

As for what I expect to happen now? I expect to be told no when I initiate if she isn't feeling like it. Regarding the impact of my comment - in and of itself, this one "slip up" (if that is indeed what it was), is no huge deal. But I wonder if this type of remark, this type of communication, is a mistake on my part.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, you'll find out in time.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Opening a can of worms if no sex issues exist.

I opened up this can being in a sexless marriage because I don't EVER want pity sex... I'll wait for her to want to give me sex. Without asking I never ask.

Why you would do that in a normal sexual marriage... seems like its creating an issue when none exists.

Now she is going to think hey he said if I'm not into it then A-OK!

Are you sure you can handle the rejections?

Her tastes can change and you gave her a free pass...

She gets resentments its a-OK to withhold as you said it!

I'm probably facing this now... but I'l be dammed if we go back to pity sex . I want it all and willing to wait for her come around or divorce her.


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

Shades of gray. If this turns into me constantly being turned down, because she's never in the mood, or her never initiating because of the same, then Houston we have a problem. And at that point I would address that issue. An occasional no I'm not in the mood or whatever I can deal with. I'm not THAT fragile.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

You told her how her lack of enthusiasm made you feel. You weren't nasty about it and you set the stage for her to honestly communicate with you about her feelings regarding sex. A woman who cares about the marriage and who is worth keeping would likely make an effort to step up. An indifferent wife (that you'd be better off without, anyway) might be relieved that she has the green light to turn you down more frequently.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I think you did it right. To wait until she's about to give duty sex and surprise her with your own rejection would be counter productive. Better to have an adult conversation outside of the bedroom.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Riptide said:


> I tend to agree that communication and honesty should always win out. That's what I thought was right. But after doing a lot of reading I'm getting the impression that a man should hide his insecurities and avoid doing or saying anything that makes him look weak to his wife. So in the end no, you can't really talk about anything and everything with her. Disappointing but if it's the truth I can't change that.


The thing is, you would have had to talk about this sooner or later because _this is how you feel_. Your thoughts and feelings about duty sex would still be there even if you had said nothing. If you hadn't told her that it makes you feel rejected and that you need to feel desired in order to want sex with her, she wouldn't know why this is important to you. She's not a mind reader.

Pretending to be something you are not ends up creating confusion and misunderstanding. If you said nothing and just turned her down each time she offered what you expect is duty sex, she might stop initiating because she might conclude that you don't want to have sex with her anymore. Or she'll stop initiating because she doesn't want to feel rejected when she didn't even want sex to begin with. It can get ugly when you hide and pretend instead of owning your needs and wants. 

But you have to be prepared for what happens next. Ideally, this would open a dialogue between you about what sex means to your relationship and what kind of sex life you both want to have. 

If she sees you as weak for telling her your honest thoughts, she's not exactly loving wife and partner material, is she?


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

My feelings are that yeah, she would seem not to be very loving if she felt I was weak for sharing my feelings of rejection. I guess I'm still learning when and how are the right times and ways to share an issue with her that might come off as weakness on my part. Perhaps some hyper sensitivity based on all the alpha male talk regarding how to approach issues with her. Makes me feel like I'm walking on egg shells.

I appreciate all the comments so far this evening, from all of you. It seems like I didn't detonate an H-bomb here so that's good.

If I sense any weirdness going forward, or if I can't get enough satisfaction (lol isn't that a song?), or she can't, and there are signs, then another talk is coming.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

There is nothing wrong with being vulnerable with your wife.

But maybe she will feel awkward for a while, not wanting you to think it's "pity sex".


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

I believe it was a mistake. Some women may not ever be into having too much sex. Now you're letting her off the hook and basically are telling her it's ok not to have sex if she doesn't want it.

Your frequency of sex will probably decrease now, with little change in how much she desires it.


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

that_girl said:


> But maybe she will feel awkward for a while, not wanting you to think it's "pity sex".


Possible. I tried to head that off somewhat by being clear that as long as she derives pleasure from an encounter, without necessarily reaching climax, I'm okay with that. As long as she does reach climax some of the time and is fine with our sex life in general. I was pretty clear - only the completely one-sided stuff is what I'm trying to avoid here.


Adex said:


> Now you're letting her off the hook and basically are telling her it's ok not to have sex if she doesn't want it.


But it IS okay with me.


> Your frequency of sex will probably decrease now, with little change in how much she desires it.


As long as things don't take a swan dive off a cliff, and the quality sex we have is often enough, then okay.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Riptide said:


> Example of duty sex:
> Wife does not ever get into it during the morning. However on weekends if I wake up with wood and ask for it she typically obliges. But she never gets into it and pretty much just wants me to hurry up and get through it so we can get out of bed and get going.


I'm not a big fan of talking to solve problems. I think it's overrated. If you KNOW she's not going to be interested and you don't want pity sex then just don't ask for it. 

Problem solved.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

And maybe you just have stanky breath in the morning. I know that morning odors completely turn me off, so we always go wash up and brush our teeth quickly and then get busy.


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

@Mavash

True enough. Sometimes though it isn't always so easy to gauge her interest when she's got it in her mind at that point she's going to ask me if I want it. Without adding in the detail about how she doesn't really want it right now this is just for me. So without me having to ask "do you really want it" it's just better that neither one of us initiates if either/or is not interested. And if one of us initiates but the other isn't in the mood for it then we need to be honest about it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Totally normal for you to have peak desire in the morning. 

Not at all unusual that she isn't super keen on morning sex. 

Does she like it at night? Or in the afternoon? 

I think what you did was perfectly honest - perhaps not perfectly delivered. 

Same message, different tone goes like this: I like it better when sex is something I do with you, not to you. 

Maybe even better is first cut out the behavior you are creating and then if she mentions it tell her that it is ok for her to decline if she doesn't want to. 

One last thing: Sex, freely given as a gift, because you get pleasure from making your partner happy, is a good thing. Sex tolerated - or worse engaged in with a hurry up and get it over with vibe - is a bad thing. 

The next time you get the hurry up vibe - or worse she says something like that, smile, stop and go take a shower. Don't argue, don't tell her you are offended. Just stop. 

If she asks you "why" you stopped just give her a "are you kidding - you know why I stopped" look. 





Riptide said:


> I tend to agree that communication and honesty should always win out. That's what I thought was right. But after doing a lot of reading I'm getting the impression that a man should hide his insecurities and avoid doing or saying anything that makes him look weak to his wife. So in the end no, you can't really talk about anything and everything with her. Disappointing but if it's the truth I can't change that.
> 
> I certainly do appreciate the fact that when she engages in sex to only please me she does it because she loves me and is being nice. I told her as much. Laughed at would be a bit much but being put off seems better to me. I feel emasculated in these types of my benefit only encounters.
> 
> As for what I expect to happen now? I expect to be told no when I initiate if she isn't feeling like it. Regarding the impact of my comment - in and of itself, this one "slip up" (if that is indeed what it was), is no huge deal. But I wonder if this type of remark, this type of communication, is a mistake on my part.


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Does she like it at night? Or in the afternoon?


Typically evenings more so.


> Same message, different tone goes like this: I like it better when sex is something I do with you, not to you.


Agreed. That would've been a better way to phrase it. A lot goes into the delivery and this is a touchy subject in general. I'm pretty good at it - but there are times when I come up short there.


> Maybe even better is first cut out the behavior you are creating and then if she mentions it tell her that it is ok for her to decline if she doesn't want to.


Certainly another option. One I considered. In the spirit of "communication" and not playing games however I decided for a more direct approach. That's my style, my personality, and it may not always produce the best results.


> If she asks you "why" you stopped just give her a "are you kidding - you know why I stopped" look.


Honestly if this talk we've had doesn't produce the desired results, and we still end up going at it and I get that vibe from her, then I absolutely will start doing this. I'm not going to rip her head off but when I said I don't like how this makes me feel I wasn't fibbing.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

So, if she fakes being interested, that's ok? How will you know the difference? She could just be so full of "stage fright" that she stops all togehter, in fear of hurting your feelings or having you question if she's really into it.

Ouch.


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

that_girl said:


> So, if she fakes being interested, that's ok? How will you know the difference? She could just be so full of "stage fright" that she stops all togehter, in fear of hurting your feelings or having you question if she's really into it.
> 
> Ouch.


Faking being interested is dishonest and no dishonesty is not okay. I may not be able to tell the difference all of the time, but probably some of the time, and if she's faking it most of the time it's going to eventually come to a head. You can't pull the wool over someone's eyes in this regard forever. Not easily anyway.

If she stops all together for whatever reason then again, Houston, we have a problem and further discussion happens.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Stop taking the fun out of sex with all this talking about it. Your problem is you don't want pity sex. Maybe it's not pity sex. Maybe she's trying to meet your needs. Are you passionate or do you just 'hit it and quit it' (excuse my french)...because maybe she feels you are just using her to get off?

I dunno. you are getting sex. So that's not really the problem. The problem is the enthusiasm behind it. Find out when she wants it and get it then. Mornings do kinda suck (unless it's Sunday)...but if you just go and take her and blow her mind, I can't see how she'd just lay there.


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

That was the point of duty sex - to benefit me (ie, meet my needs) when she doesn't get much out of the experience. I appreciate the reasons behind it, and like I said did not display any anger over it and in fact showed appreciation for her intent. Duty sex isn't pity sex btw. There is a difference. I personally do not fancy either one. Particularly the latter.

I don't just pound one out then roll over. Though during duty sex - that's what she wants me to do.

Would I really be posting a thread like this if I was like that? Of course not. Her pleasure is extremely important to me on multiple levels.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

Riptide said:


> Her: 30, Me: 36. Married 3 years together 5.
> 
> A couple days ago I had a discussion with my wife. I told her that I do not want sex, regardless of who initiates, if it is only to please me. If we do it then it needs to happen because we are both interested in it. I went further and told her that on the occasions she seems to derive little pleasure from it, and it is only for my benefit, that it feels like a rejection to me. I do not want duty sex. I explained that I was not angry or upset. And that I appreciate the fact she does things to please me.
> 
> ...


the real question is why doesnt your wife want to have sex with you ? that being said it is absolutely her duty to make an effort to satisfy you sexually . your wife expects you to not go outside of your marriage to satisfy your sexual needs . with that expectation comes an obligation to provide that for you . 

everyone goes through peaks and valleys in their sex drive . during a low period you should still want to satisfy your partners needs just because it makes you feel good to make your partner happy . 

when your wife makes you feel like she does not get any pleasure from making you happy that is a huge red flag od very real problems . talk to your wife and find out what the real issue is


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## rjp1969 (Oct 18, 2012)

stoney1215 said:


> the real question is why doesnt your wife want to have sex with you ? that being said it is absolutely her duty to make an effort to satisfy you sexually . your wife expects you to not go outside of your marriage to satisfy your sexual needs . with that expectation comes an obligation to provide that for you .


Darn, but we must have missed that bit in our wedding vows.

Love ... check
honour ... check
richer, poorer, better, worse .... check

'because i fancy it more often than you do/even if you're walking bow-legged' ... nope, dont remember that one


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

rjp1969 said:


> Darn, but we must have missed that bit in our wedding vows.
> 
> Love ... check
> honour ... check
> ...



so your vows went 

love....check
honour...check
richer , poorer, better , worse.....check
you can have sex with women to satisfy your sexual needs when i do not want to have sex with you ..... check.....

somehow i have a very hard time believing that you would be ok if your husband had sex with someone else because you didnt feel like having sex with him ....... i would bet that you expect your husband to not have sex with anyone else and also not have sex with you when ever you do not feel like having sex with him ...... of course i dont think that was in your vows either ....... 

the real question again is why dont you want to satisfy your husband sexually ? why dont you get enjoyment from making him happy . why dont you want to have sex with your husband . and ultimately what makes you think that you husband will stay faithful to a woman who does not want to have sex with him . sex and money .....the 2 top reasons for divorce........


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## rjp1969 (Oct 18, 2012)

1. I'm male. Want to try that lot again ?

My issue was with your statement that "_it is absolutely her *duty* to make an effort to satisfy you sexually . your wife expects you to not go outside of your marriage to satisfy your sexual needs . with that expectation comes an *obligation* to provide that for you_.

If you think your partner is obliged to have sex with you whenever you are feeling horny, then I've got some bad news for you. That is known as coercion. Also, in a lot of countries, rape.

If your wife has (as you put it) a DUTY to do this, and an OBLIGATION to do that, then surely the duties and obligations equally apply the other way to. If she doesn't want to, then you have a DUTY and an OBLIGATION to comply with her wishes.

My point is that wedding vows make no mention of sex at all. Now, it may be an assumed item, but it isn't listed in the vows. Well, unless a lot of things have changed in the last 15 years.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

It is hard to get into it and cum when you're wife is just lying there and letting you get off. I need a little something to make it hot and hearing, "hurry up, just finish" are not the magic words to put me over the top. 

But I don't know if I'd rather get nothing instead.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

rjp1969 said:


> 1. I'm male. Want to try that lot again ?
> 
> My issue was with your statement that "_it is absolutely her *duty* to make an effort to satisfy you sexually . your wife expects you to not go outside of your marriage to satisfy your sexual needs . with that expectation comes an *obligation* to provide that for you_.
> 
> ...



let me make sure i understand you correctly . me thinking that if your partner has an expectation of monogomy then she is obligated to have sex with you is rape . on what planet , in what country , in what backwards bizarro worl is what someone thinks about something rape ???????? that is the most ridiculous thing i have ever read . a persons opinion is rape ! how do you expect me to even respond to something that ridiculous ....... so tell me who do you feel should make an effort to satisfy you sexually if not your wife ?????? who do you think should make an effort to satisfy a woman if not her husband ??????? i know i love my wife and i think i am lucky that i get to satisfy every sexual desire my wife has . i am more than happy to give her happiness my best effort . 

my point was the same that no vows mention sex or monogomy at all . monogomy is an expectation that a couple has of each other . an obligation of monogomy comes with an expectation of sex from the person who does not want you to have sex with anyone but them ............... if my wife no longer wants to have sex with me i would not cheat on her i would first try to figure out why , and fix it . if that didnt work i would have no choice but to end our relationship and find someone who does desire me .


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Riptide,
Let's try this again. How frequently were the two of you having sex prior to your talk? Out of those times, what was the percentage of her being into it vs. it looking like "duty sex"? Without knowing too much about the specifics, did you ever stop to think that perhaps your wife is expressing her love to you by giving you something that she knows you need even if she's not fully into it? This is all part of the world of marriage - at least a healthy one IMHO. Spouses are to love one another and to do their best to make sure that the needs of the marriage are met. I'm sure there are plenty of times when you did something for your wife that made her happy even if you were not into doing this act. It's one way of showing love for one another.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

rjp1969 said:


> 1. I'm male. Want to try that lot again ?
> 
> My issue was with your statement that "_it is absolutely her *duty* to make an effort to satisfy you sexually . your wife expects you to not go outside of your marriage to satisfy your sexual needs . with that expectation comes an *obligation* to provide that for you_.
> 
> ...



anyone who is in a relationship with someone and they expect that person to not have sex with anyone but them is giving their partner no other option than to feel they are obligated to make an effort to keep them satisfied . if your wife wants to have sex or wants to try something new or just feels sexy who do you think should get frisky with her ????? if you ask her i bet she would say she expects you to take care of her sexual needs . 

just for the record it is not a job or a chore or an obligation to someone who wants to satisfy their partner . it is on that way to someone who does not want to do that any longer . which leads me to the original point the real question is why does your partner not want to satisfy you ?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

rjp1969 said:


> 1. I'm male. Want to try that lot again ?
> 
> My issue was with your statement that "_it is absolutely her *duty* to make an effort to satisfy you sexually . your wife expects you to not go outside of your marriage to satisfy your sexual needs . with that expectation comes an *obligation* to provide that for you_.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to say this, but I think you have a warped sense of marriage. Actually, the vows DO SAY that sex is a component of a marriage. Where? It's the biggest one actually, where you commit to LOVING one another. Love is an interesting word because it can mean so many different things. In a marriage, love does mean many things. But one thing it definitely means is romantic love. Romantic love most definitely includes making love, i.e. having sex. You are completely wrong about sex not being in the marital vows. It is. 

If a spouse refuses to have sex with his/her partner - unless there is a medical/physical reason - it is emotional abandonment and a failure to provide love. That is breaking the very first vow. You are right that spouses shouldn't force their partners to have sex with them. However, sex is still a part of the marital duties none the less. There are plenty of duties within a marriage that each spouse has. Why people think that sex is not one of those duties for the health of a marriage continues to boggle my mind to this day.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Riptide,
> Let's try this again. How frequently were the two of you having sex prior to your talk? Out of those times, what was the percentage of her being into it vs. it looking like "duty sex"? Without knowing too much about the specifics, did you ever stop to think that perhaps your wife is expressing her love to you by giving you something that she knows you need even if she's not fully into it? This is all part of the world of marriage - at least a healthy one IMHO. Spouses are to love one another and to do their best to make sure that the needs of the marriage are met. I'm sure there are plenty of times when you did something for your wife that made her happy even if you were not into doing this act. It's one way of showing love for one another.


very well said . much better use different words to say the same thing i said . in a good marriage a people who love each other do their best ( make effort ) to make sure the needs of the marriage ( their partner ) are met ........ you are definitely a cunning linguist .... thank you for your help . i definitely appreciate it .


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'm sorry to say this, but I think you have a warped sense of marriage. Actually, the vows DO SAY that sex is a component of a marriage. Where? It's the biggest one actually, where you commit to LOVING one another. Love is an interesting word because it can mean so many different things. In a marriage, love does mean many things. But one thing it definitely means is romantic love. Romantic love most definitely includes making love, i.e. having sex. You are completely wrong about sex not being in the marital vows. It is.
> 
> If a spouse refuses to have sex with his/her partner - unless there is a medical/physical reason - it is emotional abandonment and a failure to provide love. That is breaking the very first vow. You are right that spouses shouldn't force their partners to have sex with them. However, sex is still a part of the marital duties none the less. There are plenty of duties within a marriage that each spouse has. Why people think that sex is not one of those duties for the health of a marriage continues to boggle my mind to this day.



once again , beautifuly stated . i am thoroughly impressed with your ability to write in such a stunningly unoffending way .


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Of course there is no explicit mention of sex in the vows and for two very good reasons:
- it would be considered poor form as weddings have always been attended by children and
- the long form version of marital commitment is already in the bible

To 'love' in a marital context has an explicitly sexual meaning

All that aside I agree with your mindset


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## rjp1969 (Oct 18, 2012)

I think we're getting a bit off point here, so I'll try to clear up what I am saying.

My big issue was with the statement :

_it is *absolutely her duty* to make an effort to satisfy you sexually . your wife expects you to not go outside of your marriage to satisfy your sexual needs . with that expectation comes an *obligation* to provide that for you . _

That, to me, reads horrendously sexist and 'alpha-male'-ist. 

Me man, me go out to work. Me provide.
You woman, you raise children, take care of home, you satisfy me when I want it.

If you don't see anything wrong with what you wrote, then I think you've got a number of respect issues towards women.

Now, that may not be the case, but that is how it reads to me. 

Anyway, I do believe that sex is an important part of a marriage or other relationship. It renews and reinforces bonds, it brings you physically and (hopefully) emotionally closer. 

But to say that a woman has an obligation to have sex with her husband is to oversimplify. 
What if she has emotional issues which are not being addressed ? 
Then, if she feels obliged because she is told it is her 'duty' to have sex, it becomes a case of her having sex almost against her will. 
Sex against a persons will is called rape, however you want to dress it up


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

You may kiss the bride... implies foreplay. Even the priest wants you to get busy.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Stop taking the fun out of sex with all this talking about it. Your problem is you don't want pity sex. Maybe it's not pity sex. Maybe she's trying to meet your needs. Are you passionate or do you just 'hit it and quit it' (excuse my french)...because maybe she feels you are just using her to get off?
> 
> I dunno. you are getting sex. So that's not really the problem. The problem is the enthusiasm behind it. Find out when she wants it and get it then. Mornings do kinda suck (unless it's Sunday)...but if you just go and take her and blow her mind, I can't see how she'd just lay there.


the wife should communicate what she likes and when she like it.we are not mind readers.

duty sex eventually cause resentment with the one doing the duty.

I would approach it with a sex is suppose to be fun for both people and I'm not getting the I desire sex with you because its fun for me to attitude.

why don't we work on this together. start with a bottle of tequelia rose and start talking about your fantasies and what you like then have some good drunk sex incorporating everything you learned about each other.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

rjp1969 said:


> I think we're getting a bit off point here, so I'll try to clear up what I am saying.
> 
> My big issue was with the statement :
> 
> ...


You're getting bent out of shape over a situation you know very little about. The OP has not told us anything about how frequently they have sex or what percentage of those encounters were mutually fulfilling or merely "duty sex". We don't know if the OP is having sex daily and is being irrational with his views or if the OP is getting sex once a month and it's pity sex even at that. Everything needs to be evaluated within the proper context, and as usual way too many posters try to jump in with advice without fully understanding the situation. I'm guilty of that at times too.

But you're either naive or are brainwashed by feminist propaganda if you think that sex is not a part of the duties and obligations within a marriage. Sex within marriage is one of THE biggest methods of communicating love. Without a healthy sex life, there cannot be a healthy marriage. Of course there are medical exceptions to this, but my statement is true for two otherwise healthy people. If I would define a healthy sex life, my guess is that once a week is the minimum threshold to accept. If it's less, then one of the spouses is not fulfilling his/her duty to the marriage.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> the wife should communicate what she likes and when she like it.we are not mind readers.
> 
> *duty sex eventually cause resentment with the one doing the duty.*
> 
> ...


Not necessarily. It all depends on the situation. Not all sexual encounters are going to be full of passion and romance like the movies and love novels. The reality of life is messy, and sometimes you have to take it when you can get it - especially with kids milling around... Even if a man is not rock hard with desire or a woman is wet with excitement, sex can still be beneficial to the marriage even in suboptimal conditions because the two of you are still expressing love for each other even if all you are doing is giving of yourself when you are not fully wanting it. JMHO


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

rjp1969 said:


> I think we're getting a bit off point here, so I'll try to clear up what I am saying.
> 
> My big issue was with the statement :
> 
> ...


Dose a husband have an obligation to share his income with the wife?


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## rjp1969 (Oct 18, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> Dose a husband have an obligation to share his income with the wife?


So if you share your income with a person for sex, then they are your wife ?

Prostitution in a new light ...


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

rjp1969 said:


> I think we're getting a bit off point here, so I'll try to clear up what I am saying.
> 
> My big issue was with the statement :
> 
> ...




so me saying it is absolutely my ( the husband ) duty , obligation , job , responsibility , privelidge , and my need , to make every effort to satisfy her ( the wife ) sexual needs you think that is sexist and alpha male-ish in nature and shows a lack of respect for women ..... i was raised by the most amazing single mother ever . i have raised 3 daughters of my own , i have 3 sisters that i adore . i have more love , appreciation , and respect for women than you could even imagine .
for half of my life i believed i could beat the world simply because i knew i had my mother behind me . she gave me every ounce of my strength . for the other half of my life i believe i can beat the world simply because i have my wife behind me and she gives me every ounce of my strength . i believe that no man can truly be a man until he is able to make a woman feel like a woman . 
everyone should feel a tremendous sense of duty to make their partner happy . everyone should think making their partner happy is the best job in the world . and everyone should feel obliged to provide the things to their partner that they can not provide for themselves. i know i sure do . and im married to a woman who made me become a better man than i ever thought i could be . 


the words obligation , and duty , and job are only negative to someone who does not get tremendous pleasure from fulfilling the obligation , and duty , doing their job . ..... which brings me yet again to the bigger issue of not wanting to please your partner . and you definitely do not get any pleasure out of giving someone pleasure when you feel like you are doing it against your will . which is a huge problem . if you feel that way about giving your partner pleasure the marriage is over ......


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> Dose a husband have an obligation to share his income with the wife?



of course he does it is not his income it is their income ..


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

This whole thread is a big turn off. 

I hope the OP had some good results from his talk with his wife. All this other stuff is just...ew.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Here is a suggestion.

Prime the pump.

Tell her you want to have sex with her on Friday (this comes on Monday).

Send her a few (A FEW) saucy texts during the week. Lay out what you want to happen in semi raunchy detail.

Let her have time to 'get into the mood'. You are setting the stage. She can still draw the curtain if she wants to...but than you have a better feel of what her level of 'enthusiasm' actually is.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

me man go out and work , me provide , me get to miss watching my kids grow up . me come home and help maintain home , appreciate the fraction of my childrens childhood that i get to be there for . .. you woman you stay home , raise our kids , get to see every significant part of their childhood , provide me with clean clothes and a hot meal and a smile when i walk through the door that makes me forget about what i am giving up to provide for my wife and children financially . me man protect women from all manner of bugs and rodent , and tell her every day how beautiful she is . you woman give me the only place i feel safe enough to be vulnerable and cry . me man tell wife that she is not fat no matter how many pairs of pants she cant fit in any longer . you woman does more for our family than i could ever dream of doing . me man thinks you woman are more sexy , and get turned on more by you now that 20 years ago . and that is why its your job to put out the fire you started in my pants .  now get to work .


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

rjp1969 said:


> So if you share your income with a person for sex, then they are your wife ?
> 
> Prostitution in a new light ...


your words not mine!!!!!!!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

stoney1215 said:


> of course he does it is not his income it is their income ..


really? this is why marriage is not a very good idea for men in general!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

stoney1215 said:


> of course he does it is not his income it is their income ..


the bible says the same thing about each others bodies!


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

I think it's a good thing that you communicated how you felt about her behavior. Hopefully, she will be aware of the fact that she is often just going through the motions and that you don't feel loved. Take things a step further and read "The Five Love Languages" together? 

I am not a fan of repressing your desires and shutting them down instead of talking about them. There's a possibility the problem could get solved if you discuss it. If you never bring it up, it just festers. 

Has she responded well to your request? Have you guys made any efforts to talk about what is at the root of the issue -- connection and rejection? I hope things have worked out well for you both.

Of course, if you want more sex and you want her to want it with you and not just concede her body, then you have to make an effort to romance her and seduce her and court her like you probably did while you were dating. That would solve the problem better than talking about it or would be a good follow up action from you to help guide things back on track. Most women want to feel wanted. Make her feel wanted and she will probably be into it herself.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> really? this is why marriage is not a very good idea for men in general!


payday comes and the mortgage is due . the man pays the mortgage . so that means it should be his house . a mans kids need to be cared for , he is working so it is the womans job to care for his kids . the man should get this service for free ? and the woman should do it for free ? the man wears his clothes and his wife cleans them for him . should this service be free ? should the wife not get paid for this job either ? groceries have to be kept supplied the wife does this job also . is this free also ? should she now have 3 jobs with no pay ? then dinner comes along she is not a chef ? the man now gets free cooked meals ? and the wife has 4 unpaid jobs . 


a marriage and a family are a shared partnership . each person has their own jobs , and responsibilities . they are both equal partners in our family inc. everything belongs to both of them from bills , to kids , to clogged toilets to money ? it is a mutually beneficil relationship ..... well it is supposed to be any way ....


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

that_girl said:


> This whole thread is a big turn off.
> 
> I hope the OP had some good results from his talk with his wife. All this other stuff is just...ew.




no one is obligatet to read or participate in this discussion .


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

rjp1969 said:


> So if you share your income with a person for sex, then they are your wife ?
> 
> Prostitution in a new light ...


how did you get from sharing your income with your wife to paying someone for sex makes her your wife ?????? my wife does every job that i can not due while i am working ? i do that job that pays the bills because she can not do every job i cant do while i am working if she is working a job that pays the bills ? we each do what the other can not do for ourselves .


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

RJP1969 I agree 100% with you (well maybe only 95%). 

I am amazed how many here on TAM consider continuous sex a right in in marriage and this is from both men and women. 

Just because you have a hard-on you need to stick it in? Amazing.... Because you earn more, or the majority or all the money then you hold that right over your spouse and this is reinforced over and over on TAM.

To the OP, you are needy and a wimp. Sorry, while I may not have as much sex (or as varied or wild ) as I may want (and we do discuss it in a fun non emotional manner) I am happy we still do after 26 years and her parts work and she "O's".


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

justbidingtime said:


> RJP1969 I agree 100% with you (well maybe only 95%).
> 
> I am amazed how many here on TAM consider continuous sex a right in in marriage and this is from both men and women. *This is a straw man argument. I did not see anyone post anything close to this idea that the wife is a POS if she isn't having sex with her husband on demand, multiple times/day with a constant smile on her face. What I have seen is basically the idea that a balanced approach is needed and that the two need to come to a common ground where both feel fulfillment with their sex life.*
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

When we married we joined everything including our bodies. 

I am only going to speak to what my vows mean. Separate from the ceremony my FIL asked me to do something. It was the only request of substance he made of me (that's a compliment) in 17 years. 

Take good care of her. 

That's it. 

That included finding a way to mesh our male / female drives. I didn't do it as well in the first half the marriage but we worked it out. 

As the HD partner it is my job to be good at reading and understanding. And equally accepting that her drive is lesser and not making her feel bad about who she is. And in fact - doing the opposite. 

Plenty of times 'after', I hear a statement that is actually a request for reassurance. 

'sorry I am not a very exciting partner'

Which really means: are you happy with me? 

And that is an easy question to respond to with either: I love you, you're perfect for me, any more excitement I'm gonna need to carry a portable defibrillator around, stop it, you are just so hot,... 

Men sometimes jam the channel with chatter on this topic. If there is a real decline in her desire, we are inclined towards fixing her or telling her to fix herself, or telling her to 'suk it up', or being emotionally unpleasant. 

Note: doing her share of housework, or spending beyond your means, or constantly touching kissing hugging complementing following texting etc. are attempts to 'fix', her desire. Good luck with that. There is a guy here soon to start his 4th sexless year trying to fix his wife.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

:rofl:

SO funny that men think women don't work?! I have had a career for 13 years now. I have money  I don't stay home  My house is run quite nicely and I like to eff my husband.

Oh the shock of it all.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

stoney1215 said:


> no one is obligatet to read or participate in this discussion .


Well, I was part of it...and so I was reading and it just sucked my libido dry. Not in a good way either.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Mem if you are talking about me let me set u straight... there will not be a year 4 of waiting for our marriage to repair. My wife and I are heading into a year 3 of trying to overcome ILYNILWY that will happen on November 23. She doesn't need "Fixed' neither do I... the situation of our marriage to one another needs addressed.

It took both of us to get here will take both to get there... fixing ourselves along the way.


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Mem if you are talking about me let me set u straight... there will not be a year 4 of waiting for our marriage to repair. My wife and I are heading into a year 3 of trying to overcome ILYNILWY that will happen on November 23. She doesn't need "Fixed' neither do I... the situation of our marriage to one another needs addressed.
> 
> It took both of us to get here will take both to get there... fixing ourselves along the way.


Of course he is talking about you....... Unfortunately while you talk a good game, she has done nothing to this point. The fact she does not even have an itch to scratch (proverbially) and even at your best sex was infrequent does not bode well.


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## ozymandias (Sep 22, 2009)

justbidingtime said:


> Just because you have a hard-on you need to stick it in? Amazing.... Because you earn more, or the majority or all the money then you hold that right over your spouse and this is reinforced over and over on TAM.


I think perhaps you've misunderstood. It's not about gender or who makes more money. Your marriage partner deserves a good faith effort at having their sexual needs met because they (ostensibly) are giving you monogamy in exchange.


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

ozymandias said:


> I think perhaps you've misunderstood. It's not about gender or who makes more money. Your marriage partner deserves a good faith effort at having their sexual needs met because they (ostensibly) are giving you monogamy in exchange.


No I get it...... This is TAM..... You are married you earn all the sex you want


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Personally, I never accept pity sex or duty sex. If she's not into it, it is not happening (my choice). Now, she might feel busy, rushed, stressed, etc., and show no interest or a lack of desire, and I may "push" the issue in a fun way by sying something like "you look stressed. You need a good screwing" and put her down on the bed, couch, or up against a wall and start kissing her and fondling her, and she'll usually respond and really get into it if she's not drastically stressed. I love it when she acts this way, and I'll push her down on the bed and go down on her. She always gets up smiling, and I go on my way. All in an effort to please her, relax her, and show her it's not all about me getting my "nut". She always reciprocates at some point, and that's great enough for me! 

No pity sex. If she's not in the mood in the morning, and you're so horny you can't think straight, start rubbing one out with her there. She can be close, and it is still very intimate without having to resort to duty sex or her putting herself out if she really can't get in the mood. The times I do this, more often than not she GETS in the mood before I'm done. Yet if I'd of just initiated with her, she'd likely have wanted it to stop there if she wasn't in the mood. And even when she doesn't, it is 10 times better and 100 times more intimate and sharing than doing it alone in the shower or hidden away somewhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## williamjones (Oct 12, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Some people aren't in the mood in the morning. At least she is taking care of that need for you. Many women just push their men away and laugh.


well said 
[from one who has been pushed away by a laughing wife!]


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

T2,
You aren't even willing to stop her affair. Lacking that resolve, and having prematurely boasted of victory so many times now....


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

Actually T2 is probably holding MrVanilla as his shining example of what could be as MrVanilla was in a sexless marriage (by definition) then went 10 years with absolutely none and now has been given the key to pandora's box.

Heck T2 has plenty of time comparatively.........


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

Wow this kinda blew up after I signed off last night. lol
I enjoy the banter even if it sort of went boldly OT a bit. 


Plan 9 from OS said:


> Riptide,
> Let's try this again. How frequently were the two of you having sex prior to your talk? Out of those times, what was the percentage of her being into it vs. it looking like "duty sex"?


Sex happens about 5-7x a week on average. As far as a percentage goes I would estimate about 20% of the time it has been duty sex. The rest of the time she is getting some enjoyment out of it. She probably climaxes about 2-3x a week during sex. In the past, for instance say the first 3-4 years of the relationship, sex was slightly more frequent and she probably climaxed about 4-5x a week. So there you have it. The stats. 


> Without knowing too much about the specifics, did you ever stop to think that perhaps your wife is expressing her love to you by giving you something that she knows you need even if she's not fully into it? This is all part of the world of marriage - at least a healthy one IMHO.


Absolutely. This is exactly why she is doing it. And although I may not have made that clear enough in my first post. I did mention how I told her in our talk that I appreciate her doing this to please me and that I was not angry or showing any signs of being upset when I discussed this. Regardless of intent duty sex just doesn't feel real good to me. She seemed to accept this. From now on I asked that she not initiate sex simply for my benefit only and that if I initiate she should please speak up about not feeling up to it. I will do the same. My plan is that if our sex life does hit the basement because of this then I have actually successfully exposed a problem at that point and we will discuss again. Telling my wife I'm not into duty sex doesn't in my mind create a problem where there was none. If she desires sex, which I believe she often does, then those experiences will continue.


> I'm sure there are plenty of times when you did something for your wife that made her happy even if you were not into doing this act. It's one way of showing love for one another.


Changed the oil on her car last weekend. Does that count? 

Some other posts here recommending I work on trying to cultivate her mood. I will do that. It's hard for me to understand since I'm obviously still in the "honeymoon phase" and she is not so much. Someone else recommended rubbing one out in bed next to her in the morning perhaps right before we get up. That may get her in the mood. It may not. But. It does seem like that might be worth an experiment or two.

Thanks for the different angles I'm getting here, from all of you.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

So your sex life is good...you just dont' want her to initiate when she thinks you want sex. 

Some women get pleasure out of pleasing their men even if they aren't into the deed being done. I hate laundry, but i do it. lol. Sex isn't laundry, I know....


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## MAB1220 (Dec 23, 2012)

Doesn't everyone experience ebb and flow of their libido? Aren't there ever times where the sex is more for your wife than you? IMO being willing to have sex even if one is not specifically in the mood is an act of love. Next time around maybe she will be more into it. It depends on a number of things for women, fatigue hormones etc. Let her satisfy you. Maybe there are times you do something like cook her favorite meal knowing you are going to enjoy it less but you will still derive pleasure knowing you made her happy. Does that make sense?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

amorous_1 said:


> I tend to agree that communication and honesty should always win out. That's what I thought was right. But after doing a lot of reading I'm getting the impression that a man should hide his insecurities and avoid doing or saying anything that makes him look weak to his wife. So in the end no, you can't really talk about anything and everything with her. Disappointing but if it's the truth I can't change that.


 I believe this depends on the wife in question...

I would not look upon my husband as weak if he was vulnerable with me about his feelings, I WANT that in a man, I LOVE the sensitive type.... BUT SOME WOMEN DO NOT, even if they say they do... it can lower their attraction to him somehow... They'd rather you just "take her" - show your Lust before her.... because in this... she feels hotly desired and this revvs her up... 

(well personally I would love both of those)...

So what type of woman did you marry !?? If she favors ALPHA males and you are showing too much "Beta" behaviors in this area...Yes... she could loose some sexual attraction ...working against you. 

My husband is very much like you (in how you FEEL IN THIS... uber sensitive).... in our past, if he even FELT/ imagined I was not into it -before he even started, he would just roll over...like if I had a book in my hands, he would forgo getting frisky... (half the time anyway), I didn't even know he was suffering!! 

I could kick his derrière for this in our past.. he didn't tell me how he was feeling (like you did with your wife)....I would have appreciated that very much so I had an opportunity to step it up/ something, I would not have wanted him to feel that way - I believe I would have cared.......we didn't talk about sex/ our desires... biggest regrets of our marriage. :banghead:



> I certainly do appreciate the fact that when she engages in sex to only please me she does it because she loves me and is being nice. I told her as much. Laughed at would be a bit much but being put off seems better to me. I feel emasculated in these types of my benefit only encounters.


 ..Scrap the "being nice" part...* is it FAKE*, or does she genuinely enjoy pleasing her husband and making you feel good, does this bring her an inner satisfaction? 

Here is the thing about







& love making.... it starts in the brain...it's about how we feel when we are with our lover... some are more motivated by an* emotional connection *...especially lower drive women.....(she may not even care to "get hers"- the lust is just not there like it is for you).....but yet, it still gives her a "high".. this connection between you both ...to DO for you ... in your need. 




> As for what I expect to happen now? I expect to be told no when I initiate if she isn't feeling like it. Regarding the impact of my comment - in and of itself, this one "slip up" (if that is indeed what it was), is no huge deal. But I wonder if this type of remark, this type of communication, is a mistake on my part.


Here is my solution to the Lower Drive/ Higher Drive dilemma ... as I faced this a little with my very pleasing husband... although he does LOVE Sex and always did... I found my drive HIGHER and it bothered me -because I would spit at pity sex... but so would he -- we are admittedly both *very sensitive *here !! 








http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...allowing-our-partner-turn-us-love-making.html


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm just throwing this out, it's something you and her can learn together, take a few tests to better understand each other...

This could be an enlightening book for you both, I know it helped ME understand my husband...even myself .... 

When Your Sex Drives Don't Match: Discover Your Libido Types to Create a Mutually Satisfying Sex Life 

There are 10 libido types:

1. *Sensual*
2. *Erotic*
3. *Compulsive*
4. *Dependent*
5. *Stressed*
6. *Disinterested*
7. *Detached*
8. *Addictive*
9. *Entitled*
10. *Reactive* 

Can figure out yours here>>>  Identifying your Libido Type 

Also a Lover Style Test CLICK HERE - just for a little more understanding of each other...

The Classic Lover 
The Exotic Lover 
The Suave Lover 
The Carnal Lover 
The Devoted Lover 
The Surprising Lover
The Romantic Lover 
The Liberated Lover


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I'm just throwing this out, it's something you and her can learn together, take a few tests to better understand each other...
> 
> This could be an enlightening book for you both, I know it helped ME understand my husband...even myself ....
> 
> ...


This post is very helpful, thanks for posting this!


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