# Reality check



## Prothias (Dec 20, 2015)

Good morning and thank you for reading. 

A very, very, brief backstory- married 10 years, together 14, one awesome 6 year old daughter.We are both in our mid 30's, physically fit, financially secure (not be a jacka$$ but we literally have 0 money concerns, and never will). she works a few hours a day, sometimes 3 or 4 days a week. I do the litter boxes for the cats, maintain the inside and outside (except for floor washing and laundry), we split the cooking, and we both get up in the morning to help get our daughter ready for school and out the door on time. 

I have been HD, she has always been LD. Her idea of setting the mood is coming to me and asking "Do you want to have sex?". Ironically, or maybe not, when I use the exact same phrase it is meant with a look of puzzlement, which is followed by her saying "that's how you proposition me" or "I'm not in the mood". Truth is, I never initiate, because she always dictates the terms, so to speak. She also doesn't see the irony in the fact that the same question illicit different responses.

There is no foreplay. We use grapeseed oil as lube. There are 2, yes 2 postions that we use. She is not open to trying other positions. Outside digitial stimulation only, which is no big deal. She doesn't let me perform oral anymore, stating she just wants to get to it. I haven't had a BJ in 14 years. Or a HJ. I'll answer any questions, but that is the basics.

So this past Saturday I had a mild epiphany. My wife and I were out at a birthday party for a friend; had some drinks, everyone was having a great time. We get in the car to leave, and as we are pulling out of the parking lot, she says to me, "When we get home, you can lay me if you want, I know you want to and it's been a while, and I'm not in the modd but Ill get into it once we start". That is a direct quote. It has been seared into my brain, lol.

I turned and looked at her and said "No". This is not the big light bulb moment. That came on the ride home, when I realized that I was done. No more chasing, no more desiring. No more drive. It's like a light switch has been turned off. I am making a very concerted effort to just look at her as a room mate. I am doing this to preserve my sanity and dignity. I am not some good little boy who deserves a treat. She changed clothes in front of me last night, and it literally did nothing for me. No butterflies, no tingle, zilch. Yes, I am aware that should be a HUGE warning. But it was also...like a weight was gone from my shoulders.

I am at a loss, though, because I never wanted to be in this position. I never THOUGHT I would be in the position of actively trying to change my mental view of how I feel about my wife. 

Any, and I do mean any, insight is appreciated. Thanks for your time.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Not sure if this can be considered insight, but I've been in the same boat. I know that my drive has gone down considerably in the past year or so. 

I recall one time a few years ago when we finally got a sitter and went out to a nice dinner. It was obvious that we wound have sex for the first time in over a year. Once we got home she puts on her flannel pj's and says that she's really tired but will have sex if I want it. Destroyed any urges that I had and told her no. Next week, go out again and even talk about having sex, and when we get home, she announces that she's crampy. 

Mine will occasionally say that we should have sex, but will then say how she's tired/headache/doesn't feel well/crampy/etc. 

It's a horrible feeling when your spouse views sex as a chore (and mine has said that before). In my case I would take care of any urges in the shower but now I can't even do that. Lost all desire to have sex with her. 

You're not alone nor abnormal.


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## Prothias (Dec 20, 2015)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Not sure if this can be considered insight, but I've been in the same boat. I know that my drive has gone down considerably in the past year or so.
> 
> I recall one time a few years ago when we finally got a sitter and went out to a nice dinner. It was obvious that we wound have sex for the first time in over a year. Once we got home she puts on her flannel pj's and says that she's really tired but will have sex if I want it. Destroyed any urges that I had and told her no. Next week, go out again and even talk about having sex, and when we get home, she announces that she's crampy.
> 
> ...


Ah, the infamous fabled rainchecks that never materialize. Yup, I could power a steam locomotive with the pile of rainchecks I've gotten over the years.

We have talked, and talked, and talked, for at least 5 years, about how this has been an issue. Things change briefly, then revert back. I have literally stopped caring. About her needs, that is. I am going to just focus on my daughter and myself. If she needs something done she can do it herself.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

That's all you can do. Be the best father to your child, and being the best person that you can be ties into that. Having your drive go down is a relief, at least to me. 

I've given up caring about my wife. We're going out to dinner tonight and I actually dread going. She's lazy, which manifests itself in her being overweight, asexual, and the house being a mess. She'll have the kids all day today and I'll get an earful about how whiny they were and how she couldn't get anything done.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

So...what't the next step? Does she know that you checked out? Does she know that you feel zero desire for her anymore? I'm skeptical that your wife has a low enough libido to be considered asexual, meaning I think she could ultimately find her libido again.

The question becomes - do you want to fix it or do you want out? Living as roommates for the next 12 years sounds like a recipe for disaster. 

I hope she knows where she stands with you.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Spitballing here but she may think she's normal - does she have friends that don't have sex with their husbands and they talk about it like its normal for married couples to go sexless? My wife has several close friends that rarely, if ever, have sex with their husbands, and they talk about this like it's natural. One gives her husband an occasional BJ and acts like it's a chore and just does it out of duty. I know this because I've seen the text messages and overheard them talking. One friend is very HD, but she's a total freak, as there's no way that's normal.


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## Prothias (Dec 20, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> So...what't the next step? Does she know that you checked out? Does she know that you feel zero desire for her anymore? I'm skeptical that your wife has a low enough libido to be considered asexual, meaning I think she could ultimately find her libido again.
> 
> The question becomes - do you want to fix it or do you want out? Living as roommates for the next 12 years sounds like a recipe for disaster.
> 
> I hope she knows where she stands with you.


To coin a phrase from Stewie, what a good looking question. All jokes aside, I don't know. Part of me desperately wants to fix this, get us back to where we used to be- basically passionate, and in love. And then part of me is just...tired. I have been down this road many, many times, and if I am being completely honest, I have no idea if I have the stomach to have yet another talk, with more promises, etc. The only reason I am staying is because of my daughter. There are already 2 families in her kindergarten class getting divorced; I don't want ours to be the third.



ChargingCharlie said:


> Spitballing here but she may think she's normal - does she have friends that don't have sex with their husbands and they talk about it like its normal for married couples to go sexless? My wife has several close friends that rarely, if ever, have sex with their husbands, and they talk about this like it's natural. One gives her husband an occasional BJ and acts like it's a chore and just does it out of duty. I know this because I've seen the text messages and overheard them talking. One friend is very HD, but she's a total freak, as there's no way that's normal.


Yes, she absolutely thinks she is normal. And she is, for her. I have tried for 5 years to get her to go get a physical and blood work done to check hormone levels. She won't do it. Intimacy, and by extension sex, is a tick on the "things to do list". Problem is, it is dead last on the list.

I remember one of her friends once told her about how the friend gave her husband a HJ with pearls wrapped around her hand, and she was describing how awesome that sounded and that she wanted to try that.

That was in 2012.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Feel your pain. Mine goes to her doctor regularly but never mentions sex drive that I can tell. Now we are about 15 years older than you and have two little ones, but they generally are in bed by 8:30-9:00. 

I also recall a divorced friend of hers stating that she could go the rest of her life without sex and be perfectly happy, and I caught my wife nodding to herself. If she doesn't want sex, then that's fine. She's driven my drive down from HD to almost LD, so she should be happy.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

And a HJ? My wife's reaction? How gross (same with a BJ). I've had exactly one of each from my wife and both early on.


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## Spitfire (Jun 6, 2015)

I've got a similar situation. My intentions are to hold off divorce until my youngest is 18 or about 6 more years. I've pretty much detached from my wife physically but I'm still trying to be there emotionally for her. My wife realized pretty quickly what was happening and the relationship soured a bit. I don't think cutting out sex completely for 6 years is sustainable at this point so once per month duty sex is something I'll have to do. When my wife asked me about it I just said "I'm not going to bother you about sex anymore. I'm tired of the rejection and excuses. If you want to have sex let me know otherwise don't expect me to initiate sex anymore". We've had sex once in the past 6 weeks which is about her pace. My goal now is to get her working and more self sufficient financially so that when I do leave it won't be as rough on her.


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## Prothias (Dec 20, 2015)

I just wish the spouses that pull this crap really understood the dynamic that gets created. It royally sucks to be in love with someone who, for whatever reason, just does not either take the sex/intimacy issue seriously (as it relates to men and the need for that emotional connection with their wife). It sucks to know that you are basically trapped- it is not as easy as people make it seem when they say, "oh, just leave, etc". It just is not that simple. I have a very, very hard time justifying to myself that it would be ok to put my needs above that of my child and potentially cause emotional damage to her. I can't do that. I absolutely, totally understand why people would cheat- if it to just have the sense of being desired, being wanted again. I wouldn't go down that route, but after being in this position, I will absolutely not judge anyone who does.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Prothias said:


> The only reason I am staying is because of my daughter. There are already 2 families in her kindergarten class getting divorced; I don't want ours to be the third.


How do you think your daughter will view marriage when she grows up?

In other words, you aren't doing her a favor by staying in a dead marriage for her.

And if you think she doesn't pick up on the fact that there are no sparks between you and your wife, you're wrong.


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## Prothias (Dec 20, 2015)

technovelist said:


> How do you think your daughter will view marriage when she grows up?
> 
> In other words, you aren't doing her a favor by staying in a dead marriage for her.
> 
> And if you think she doesn't pick up on the fact that there are no sparks between you and your wife, you're wrong.


I absolutely agree. I still submit that life is not that cut and dry. If I had a crystal ball that could show me my daughter in 12 years as happy, well adjusted teenager, I would pack my bags today. Or hers. however, who knows. If I keep on my current plan of just keeping things cordial and "roomie" between us, any residual love may go away anyway, and maybe it will be an easier choice to make.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Agree with Prothias. Easy to say he should leave. Trust me I'd love to get a divorce - however that would mean split parenting and I don't want that. My wife gets stressed out with the kids and she's lazy, so me being around means I can keep them active. She'd rather keep them inside playing or watching the iPad so she can watch TV and stuff her face.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Prothias said:


> I absolutely agree. I still submit that life is not that cut and dry. If I had a crystal ball that could show me my daughter in 12 years as happy, well adjusted teenager, I would pack my bags today. Or hers. however, who knows. If I keep on my current plan of just keeping things cordial and "roomie" between us, any residual love may go away anyway, and maybe it will be an easier choice to make.


Ok, but I think you will find it much harder to follow this plan than you may think.

You are still young. Since you are also physically fit and have plenty of money, one day you may get a look from a woman that will stir your blood. Given the lack of affection at home, you may find it very difficult to restrain your desire for affection elsewhere.

That generally produces much worse results than a relatively amicable divorce.


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## Prothias (Dec 20, 2015)

technovelist said:


> Ok, but I think you will find it much harder to follow this plan than you may think.
> 
> You are still young. Since you are also physically fit and have plenty of money, one day you may get a look from a woman that will stir your blood. Given the lack of affection at home, you may find it very difficult to restrain your desire for affection elsewhere.
> 
> That generally produces much worse results than a relatively amicable divorce.


It's not really a plan so much as a numbed, stunned, reactionary decision, if that makes any sense. I am sure part of me is just frustrated and venting, but to me, this feels different than before. I am not overly concerned about attracting the attention of another woman right now, more so because I am just completely turned off by the idea of marriage, relationships, love, etc at the moment. I am Indifferent. Hell, and sorry if this is TMI, I woke up for the first time in years without morning wood. Which is either a relief, or a cause for concern, I haven't figured that out yet.


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

Prothias said:


> We get in the car to leave, and as we are pulling out of the parking lot, she says to me, "When we get home, you can lay me if you want, I know you want to and it's been a while, and I'm not in the modd but Ill get into it once we start". That is a direct quote.


Does she sometimes seem to get more in the mood after you get started? Are the two of you familiar with responsive desire?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Prothias said:


> *I haven't had a BJ in 14 years. Or a HJ.* I'll answer any questions, but that is the basics.


Not my usual advice here but I do know that couples tend to choose a side of the bed and they also choose to lay on the same sides during foreplay. For my wife, her preference is the side of the bed closest to the bathroom while her orientation to me is irrelevant, and I did not notice this until staying in a hotel. 

She is right handed and at home our bedroom was configured so that when she was laying next to me during foreplay, she would be on top of her right hand, which made HJs awkward since her available hand was her left hand. 

I rearranged our bedroom one day and placed our bed on the opposite wall so that the other side of the bed would be closer to the bathroom and so her right hand (dominant side) could be free during foreplay. This in turn drastically increased her willingness to give HJs. 

While I am just messing around with this post and this story is not true, my wife hates giving me a HJ when she is laying on her right side.

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You have everything in life, it seems - except a wife. IMO, time to find one as soon as you discard the roommate.


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## Prothias (Dec 20, 2015)

badsanta said:


> Not my usual advice here but I do know that couples tend to choose a side of the bed and they also choose to lay on the same sides during foreplay. For my wife, her preference is the side of the bed closest to the bathroom while her orientation to me is irrelevant, and I did not notice this until staying in a hotel.
> 
> She is right handed and at home our bedroom was configured so that when she was laying next to me during foreplay, she would be on top of her right hand, which made HJs awkward since her available hand was her left hand.
> 
> ...


I applaud your storytelling ability, and award you one Internet. Thanks for making me laugh.


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## Prothias (Dec 20, 2015)

NoSizeQueen said:


> Does she sometimes seem to get more in the mood after you get started? Are the two of you familiar with responsive desire?


She is always very much into it once the things get started. However, she is not open to my advances- everything is on her timetable- and if it is the wrong time, so to speak, it's a fail. I would presume that she would need to want to be open to my advances, so to speak, unless I have misunderstood the concept.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Prothias said:


> She is always very much into it once the things get started. However, she is not open to my advances- everything is on her timetable- and if it is the wrong time, so to speak, it's a fail. I would presume that she would need to want to be open to my advances, so to speak, unless I have misunderstood the concept.


If you have watched the pixar movie "Cars" you learned that sometimes you have to "turn right in order to go left." 








The same is definitely true when trying to make a sexual advance with a spouse that has a slow-to-react responsive desire. You have to race at her and tell her how you are so "not in the mood" while your body drifts uncontrollably towards her at the same time!

Badsanta


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Prothias said:


> I absolutely agree. I still submit that life is not that cut and dry. If I had a crystal ball that could show me my daughter in 12 years as happy, well adjusted teenager, I would pack my bags today. Or hers. however, who knows. If I keep on my current plan of just keeping things cordial and "roomie" between us, any residual love may go away anyway, and maybe it will be an easier choice to make.


Waiting is not a solution. The very best you can hope for is the status quo remaining. In reality, things don't stay static. Either your wife will come around (somehow, magically), or things will get worse.

My 50cents bet is that things will get worse.

BTDT.

First, get and read two books. "The Sex Starved Marriage". Read it and ask your wife to read it. "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. R. Glover. This one is for you to read privately, not to show to your wife. Wives seem to usually react poorly to this book just from the book cover.

And a 3rd book suggestion "5 Love Languages", for both of you to read.

Next, put yourself on a definite personal improvement plan. Improve your eating, get in tip top physical condition, be active in several hobbies. Create a life for yourself beyond puttering around the house. This will improve your general outlook on life, and will potentially make you more desirable to your wife. The purpose is not to get a particular reaction from your wife, but rather to make yourself into someone who has purpose and gets fulfillment in life.

If you don't have to work due to having enough money already, find another avocation you have some passion in. Generally, women lose desire for men who don't work. While you might have provided a comfortable bank account already, if you're just hanging around all day you start to look unattractive to her. Find something which gives you purpose. Get involved in a way that has some leadership role or requires your innovation.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

What are you going to do with all the mental freedom you have now that your life is not a constant set of actions designed to get your wife to have sex with you?

Iroinically, if you are wise in how you answer this question, you could draw out your wife's sexual interest.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Prothias said:


> She is always very much into it once the things get started. However, she is not open to my advances- everything is on her timetable- and if it is the wrong time, so to speak, it's a fail. I would presume that she would need to want to be open to my advances, so to speak, unless I have misunderstood the concept.


Does she have any kind of trauma history? Child sex abuse, rape, an alcoholic parent, overly strict upbringing, violent crime victim, etc?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Some women don't understand male sexuality at all. My wife said to me that she thought "men just need to spurt it out". That's a direct quote. Which of course leads to the conclusion on her part that she's being used for sex. Who wants to be used? So for her, sex was not a joyous experience. It took several discussions before she started to see the light that sex is an important bonding experience as well as an expression of love.

Your wife is disconnected from you. Unless she has a hormone problem, which is actually fairly rare, she has a sex drive but is not turned on by you. It could be a faulty script in her brain such as my wife had. It could be due to trauma as a child or teen. It could be she was never all that into you as a person, perhaps only in what you represented (family, money, excellent dna for the children, status, etc). I think the latter is a fairly common situation, btw.

So you can try to make yourself a good candidate. But be authentically you, not some fake thing you think might be attractive to her. Wear nicer clothing, improve your grooming, get in top physical shape, engage in hobbies which authentically interest you. If she isn't into the real you who is at his best, she's never going to be.

One tactic which I like which you can try after trying less confrontational avenues: Tell her that you are a sexual being and you intend to have a satisfying vibrant sex life. You prefer it be with her, but you're not going to live a sexless passionless life.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Prothias said:


> ... A very, very, brief backstory- married 10 years, together 14, *one awesome 6 year old daughter*.We are both in our mid 30's, physically fit, financially secure (not be a jacka$$ but we literally have 0 money concerns, and never will). she works a few hours a day, sometimes 3 or 4 days a week. I do the litter boxes for the cats, maintain the inside and outside (except for floor washing and laundry), we split the cooking, and we both get up in the morning to help get our daughter ready for school and out the door on time.
> 
> I have been HD, she has always been LD. Her idea of setting the mood is coming to me and asking "Do you want to have sex?". Ironically, or maybe not, when I use the exact same phrase it is meant with a look of puzzlement, which is followed by her saying "that's how you proposition me" or "I'm not in the mood". Truth is, I never initiate, because she always dictates the terms, so to speak. She also doesn't see the irony in the fact that the same question illicit different responses.
> 
> ...





Prothias said:


> ........The only reason I am staying is because of my daughter. There are already 2 families in her kindergarten class getting divorced; *I don't want ours to be the third.*
> 
> 
> 
> *Yes, she absolutely thinks she is normal. And she is, for her*. I have tried for 5 years to get her to go get a physical and blood work done to check hormone levels. She won't do it. Intimacy, and by extension sex, is a tick on the "things to do list". Problem is, it is dead last on the list.....


I was in a sex starved marriage, but was able to turn it around. My wife also has 2 positions missionary and cow girl. My wife although she promised me BJ's has never delivered. I feel your pain and have been there. 

Emotionally checking out of your marriage will just cause it to fail.

Your mileage may very, but what helped me and my wife was the following. My marriage started to improve after I read 3 books and figured them out. MW Davis, the Sex Starved Marriage; Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy; Chapman's 5 languages of Love.

What I learned was that my wife and I were doing a dance where were were hurting each other. We didn't mean to or intend to, but we were. One of us had to stop the cycle. I decided it would be me. 

One of the hardest things to understand is that your wife isn't broken, your wife is normal and you are not a victim. You and your wife have just grown apart and need to renegotiate your sex life as to frequency, positions, etc. You also need to understand that you can't change her, but you can change yourself. In changing yourself, you can inspire her and show her change is possible. If she chooses to change, you can encourage those changes you like.

What worked for me was figuring out that even though my wife refused to have sex with me, I was not the victim. I was part of the problem. I had to learn from Chapman that I had been hurting her by not expressing my love for her in HER LOVE LANGUAGES. 

I learned from Glover, that I had been doing covert contracts where I would do something for my wife that I though would make her want to have sex with me, without explicitly telling what the contract was. But because we had been married for a long time, she knew exactly what I was doing and wasn't going to play that game. I also learned I needed to do things that made me happy so I would be positive and happy to be around. I also needed to not be co-dependent and need my wife's validation of me and my sexuality.

What I learned from MW Davis was that 180's were the way to figure out what worked and what didn't work in a relationship. Davis also taught me that Getting a Life was about making myself to be happy. She also taught me that by changing myself, I could change the dynamic in my relationship with my wife and that if done with enough 180's one can reinforce positive changes and get to a place where both will be happy.

Once I figured out how to make my wife feel loved in her love languages, after I backed off the pressure I was putting on her to have sex, after I gave her genuine unconditional love with no covert contracts, after she realized that I had changed, she started to come around and choose to change. We then brought in a sex therapist to help expedite that change.

While we still are limited to 2 sex positions and no BJ's and little foreplay for me, my wife and I have sex twice a week and she has gotten real good at those two positions. Marriage is about compromise, and this compromise has stretched my wife to her limits and has given me sufficient emotional happiness and connection that I am satisfied with the compromise. It is not what either of us want, but it allows us to continue as a marriage.

Good luck to you. You are not alone. You situation in not uncommon. It is also not hopeless if the two of you are willing to work at it.


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## Prothias (Dec 20, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> It is not what either of us want, but it allows us to continue as a marriage.



I appreciate all the advice, and stories that are being shared. I must admit, I am troubled by that sentence though. It reads like the simplest, most honest assessment of what marriages like this end up becoming. Two incompatible people agreeing to make the most of it.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Prothias said:


> I appreciate all the advice, and stories that are being shared. I must admit, I am troubled by that sentence though. It reads like the simplest, most honest assessment of what marriages like this end up becoming. Two incompatible people agreeing to make the most of it.


Perhaps I could have chosen my words better or elaborated a little more. 

In Sex Therapy, I was asked what would be the frequency of sex that would make me happy and that I could easily live with. After thinking about it, I said sex three times a week and gave my sex therapist and wife my reasons whey three times a week and not three times a day. My wife went from no sex or sex every month or so to three times a week and just couldn't take it. So she and I with the help of the sex therapist compromised on twice a week. 

Is twice a week less than I would like, yes. Is it so much less a week that I would leave the woman whom I have learned to love unconditionally? NOPE. Can I find happiness in my marriage to my wife with sex just twice a week, yes. Am I suffering at twice a week? As the sex therapist told me when I was having sex once every month or so, twice a week would have seemed heavenly. 

Would I love to get the BJ's that my wife promised me before and early in our marriage, but she just couldn't do and still is repulsed by? Yes, but not at the expense of repulsing her or forcing her to do things she really can't handle. 

Is leaving the woman who loves me so obviously, is so good to and for me, is the mother of my children, is the woman in whose arms I want to die, for the lack of a few BJ's really worth it? NOPE. The toe curling PIV sex, the kissing and holding each other makes me feel very very good and emotionally connected.

Are we really incompatible? No, we are not totally sexual compatible, we are also not sexually incompatible. Are we incredibly compatible in other areas of our marriage? Yes we are. We have gone to Gottman Institute weekend workshops where we have identified the huge number of things and beliefs that we share together.

If you ever read David Schnarch's books either the Passionate Marriage or the Crucible he says that marriage is the hardest thing that two people can do, if they do it right. The reason it is so hard is that two people grow and change at different rates and a marriage has those two people (if done right) constantly emotionally pulling or pushing their partner to grow at the others speed. It is a constant emotional struggle to soothe your conflicted emotional requirements of what you want versus what your partner wants. But as Schnarch points out, marriage expedites the emotional and human growth in the couple far more than any other method. As he says, it is not easy nor for the faint of heart.

I am not siting and suffering from neglect from my wife.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Young, 99% of it is your wife going to sex therapy and actually participating to find a solution. 

Think how it would be if she had simply refused to play along. It is this that many people run against, not necessarily that they don't have their sh!t together but their partners don't see the issue or don't realize it's importance.

The authors you mentioned would be selling laptops at Fry's Electronics if they had to deal with some of the more spirited personalities here at TAM land...


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Prothias said:


> It's not really a plan so much as a numbed, stunned, reactionary decision, if that makes any sense. I am sure part of me is just frustrated and venting, but to me, this feels different than before. I am not overly concerned about attracting the attention of another woman right now, more so because I am just completely turned off by the idea of marriage, relationships, love, etc at the moment. I am Indifferent. Hell, and sorry if this is TMI, I woke up for the first time in years without morning wood. Which is either a relief, or a cause for concern, I haven't figured that out yet.


What was your wifes reaction to your epiphany?
How much time has gone by?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

john117 said:


> Young, 99% of it is your wife going to sex therapy and actually participating to find a solution.
> 
> Think how it would be if she had simply refused to play along. It is this that many people run against, not necessarily that they don't have their sh!t together but their partners don't see the issue or don't realize it's importance.
> 
> The authors you mentioned would be selling laptops at Fry's Electronics if they had to deal with some of the more spirited personalities here at TAM land...


My wife actually started to change before we went to a sex therapist, but the changes would have been much more modest without it. Also without the expedited change that the sex therapist brought about, my deadline for getting myself in a loving relationship would not have been met and I would have divorced my wife. So you are right to that extent.

Still the tools in those books did cause her to change and I can't honestly say if they helped her decide to be open to the sex therapist or not. I know that my wife was struck by what she learned from Chapman and Davis, which was all prior to our going to sex therapy. It was also my reading from Schnarch and his famous Ice cream analogy to sex that made my wife say yes, she was not broken and therapy would not be about fixing her.

I think the authors have sold enough books and are famous enough that they have got a few things to offer.

But I do agree with you that I would have likely divorced my wife without the expedited change caused by the Sex Therapist. I also feel that my wife would never have agreed to a sex therapist without my first having made some of the changes to myself and the way I treated her.

Thanks.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Are you willing to leave if it doesn't improve?

Or are you just done?

I will tell you that I've gone through this. It's when you discover that your spouse who you looked at through rose colored glasses and was the only woman in the world... Suddenly is just a human being. 

And the switch in your head, or your heart, or your wiener... Goes "no thanks."

It can get turned back on. In my experience, it's only when she makes an effort to make you want to, and you realize that you actually do want to. 

I can throw some ideas out there, but only if you want to try it, and it may mean some pretty tough conversations and situations, and may destabilize your marriage.


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