# What constitutes a date



## sportyguy28 (Jun 5, 2012)

So i was just wondering what constitutes a date. liek if a guy and a girl go to the movies and they guy pays for them both is it a date. If he pays for dinner and a movies is it a date. 

Im asking cause a friend of mine is hanging out with her ex (been split since oct) and they have gone to the movies a couple of times and he has bought her ticket and once to dinner b4 the movie and hes paid. I laugh at her and say it was a date but she tells me no it wasnt girls can have guy friends cant they. But i tell her in his eyes its prob a date.

What are your takes on this?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

sportyguy28 said:


> So i was just wondering what constitutes a date. liek if a guy and a girl go to the movies and they guy pays for them both is it a date. If he pays for dinner and a movies is it a date.
> 
> Im asking cause a friend of mine is hanging out with her ex (been split since oct) and they have gone to the movies a couple of times and he has bought her ticket and once to dinner b4 the movie and hes paid. I laugh at her and say it was a date but she tells me no it wasnt girls can have guy friends cant they. But i tell her in his eyes its prob a date.
> 
> What are your takes on this?


It's dating


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Of course females can have male friends. But when the male always pays, it's generally a date.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

How 'bout the body language? Does her smile or gestures suggest she's into him? 

Why ya asking, are you into her?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well they are certainly doing "couple-y" things. Maybe she and him want to get back together.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I suppose it's a date when it becomes an issue. For example,

1. If the ex wants get back with her,it's a date.
2. If she wants to get back with him, it's a date.
3. If a new guy wants to date her, it's a date.
4. If a new girl wants to date him (the ex), it's a date.

Men, women, sex (or its forerunner, affection) and money make it all very murky. 

One of the big concerns that I had with my bf and his EA (whom he was framing as "just a friend) was the thought that if he saw her again, he would pay for the outing (date) during a period of time when he was hassling me to pay for the dates. 

OTOH, if my bf had been single at the time and taking her out, then she would have made it clear to him, herself and her boyfriend, that it was not a date.

OP, have I confused you enough.


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## sportyguy28 (Jun 5, 2012)

well me and the girl have been dating and she has said she has no intentions of wanting to get back with him. I guess the 4 yrs they had wasnt what she wanted plus hes into alot of stuff she snot now. 

Shes told me that she told him the firts time they went to teh movies it wasnt a date. so idk. plus he bought her a couple of things fro the store she wanted. i mean he even bought her stuff since we have been together so idk. seem weird to me lol. not to mentioni think she still emotinally attached a lil to him still.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

He's buying her things? That's more of a red flag to me than outings together. I mean, if a friend had done me a lot of favors, I might conceivably pick up the check for dinner, but buying little gifts for no reason? Not a birthday? 

Yeah, that's not good.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

OP, your gf's ex is trying to win her back. She believes that because she says upfront to him and to you "we're just friends" that she's off the hook.

I used to be like that as well. But now I know, nothing comes for free and I turn down offers from ex's to be just friends.

If her ex really saw her as just a friend, the the three of you should be able to go out together. You two should friend each other on FB. Even introduce him to new women that he could date.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

sportyguy28 said:


> So i was just wondering what constitutes a date. liek if a guy and a girl go to the movies and they guy pays for them both is it a date. If he pays for dinner and a movies is it a date.
> 
> Im asking cause a friend of mine is hanging out with her ex (been split since oct) and they have gone to the movies a couple of times and he has bought her ticket and once to dinner b4 the movie and hes paid. I laugh at her and say it was a date but she tells me no it wasnt girls can have guy friends cant they. But i tell her in his eyes its prob a date.
> 
> What are your takes on this?


It has nothing to do with who pays.

Hanging out one on one is a date whether one wants to call it that or not. If one behaves as a couple, it is a date even if it is in a group. This is especially true for the double date.

Many folks want to say that hanging out is not a date. LOL. Cake eaters crack me up.

This said, IF the guy is paying all of the time and they buy each other gifts and so on, it is more obviously so.

I happen think that even true friends that hang out are dating no matter their intention.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

lamaga said:


> Of course females can have male friends. But when the male always pays, it's generally a date.


Why does paying have anything to do with it?

That is very old fashioned thinking. No?

I however do agree with your point that IF the guy is paying all the time he thinks for sure it is a date. I am just suggesting it could be a date, even if they pay their own way. I just think that in this more modern world that finances play a smaller role than they used to.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

sportyguy28 said:


> well me and the girl have been dating and she has said she has no intentions of wanting to get back with him. I guess the 4 yrs they had wasnt what she wanted plus hes into alot of stuff she snot now.
> 
> Shes told me that she told him the firts time they went to teh movies it wasnt a date. so idk. plus he bought her a couple of things fro the store she wanted. i mean he even bought her stuff since we have been together so idk. seem weird to me lol. not to mentioni think she still emotinally attached a lil to him still.


She is dating him. She may not intend to get back with him. Maybe they won't even have sex. However, they could just be FWBs.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

sportyguy28 said:


> well me and the girl have been dating and she has said she has no intentions of wanting to get back with him. I guess the 4 yrs they had wasnt what she wanted plus hes into alot of stuff she snot now.
> 
> Shes told me that she told him the firts time they went to teh movies it wasnt a date. so idk. plus he bought her a couple of things fro the store she wanted. i mean he even bought her stuff since we have been together so idk. seem weird to me lol. not to mentioni think she still emotinally attached a lil to him still.


Well dude you didn't make it clear that this friend you were talking about was a friend you're dating. Is she a girlfriend or not? Mark your territory if she is or if you want her to be. He's walking all over you, and who does she find attractive - the victim or the winner?

Don't leave it up to her to tell him she chose you over him. That's your job.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> *Why does paying have anything to do with it?*
> 
> That is very old fashioned thinking. No?
> 
> I however do agree with your point that IF the guy is paying all the time he thinks for sure it is a date. I am just suggesting it could be a date, even if they pay their own way. I just think that in this more modern owrld that finances play a smaller role than they used to.


this is the big difference between men and women. We women see it as being taken care of. And quite frankly, if a guy were out with both his gf and his "just a friend" and paid for the latter........I'm not sure how long the former relationship would last after that. 

I have come to understand both my exH and with my bf, they like spending and CAN spend money on other people. So if they decide not to, that's a big message that they're sending that you don't count.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> this is the big difference between men and women. We women see it as being taken care of. And quite frankly, if a guy were out with both his gf and his "just a friend" and paid for the latter........I'm not sure how long the former relationship would last after that.
> 
> I have come to understand both my exH and with my bf, they like spending and CAN spend money on other people. So if they decide not to, that's a big message that they're sending that you don't count.


I am very old school myself just from my age if nothing else. So yeah I am all about the taken care of and so on. 

I know I am married but if we are out and a friend of my wife's or daughters is along, I pick up the whole check.

Not the same I know. My point is just that if you are doing dating things .. you are dating, no matter who pays. So if a guys GF goes out and does dating things with another guy, her saying she paid her own way does not mean it is harmless IMO.

But I get the nuance here.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

It was a date.

When she said "it is not a date" to him, what she meant was she is not putting out that night, but she was enjoying the company and attention, company and attention that should be coming from you if you were on the date with her.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

Lessee... if I remember the scale from MMSL right, if it's a date and she orders...
Surf & turf, then sex follows...
Sushi, just oral sex...
Chicken Caesar Salad, handjob

If nothing, maybe not a date..

Not that it's ever worked like that for me with my wife.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Lon said:


> It was a date.
> 
> When she said "it is not a date" to him, what she meant was she is not putting out that night, but she was enjoying the company and attention, company and attention that should be coming from you if you were on the date with her.


Ah. Another perspective. It is not a date unless there is sex. Wow. Interesting. Yes indeed I bet that some folks will think that. Good point.

So no sex it is just hanging out. Sex and it is a date. How about kissing?

Are FWBs who hang out dating or is it only dating if their is a deep emotional connection?

I opt for the simpler definition for sure on this stuff.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Ah. Another perspective. It is not a date unless there is sex. Wow. Interesting. Yes indeed I bet that some folks will think that. Good point.
> 
> So no sex it is just hanging out. Sex and it is a date. How about kissing?
> 
> ...


Not sure if I get your meaning, if my definition is too complicated? By putting out I simply meant her showing him any signs of affection at all. To me it seems she is opening herself to receiving verbal affection from her ex but her intent is probably just one way. Yes if she flirts back, holds hands, kisses etc she would certainly not be able to no longer call it not a date.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Lon said:


> Not sure if I get your meaning, if my definition is too complicated? By putting out I simply meant her showing him any signs of affection at all. To me it seems she is opening herself to receiving verbal affection from her ex but her intent is probably just one way. Yes if she flirts back, holds hands, kisses etc she would certainly not be able to no longer call it not a date.


Piecing stuff together about my bf and his EA, I think he wanted to date her and she just liked having the eunuch (with the credit card) on board.


she chided him in an e-mail about what he called a "pity kiss." I asked him about it. In an unguarded moment, he admitted that he had initiated the kiss and she rejected him. This was after he had closed a GBP127 bar tab for her and her friends. This was also the turning point in which he started showing me more attention and finally admitted what he was doing with his time away from me. 

he maintains that it was all abut friendship between the two of them. But I think that while she liked pulling his chain, he was sincerely hoping to date her. 

From the text messages between them, I can see that she first accused him of "leading her on." Then she advised him to dump me so that they could date. then she said that she had been out with another guy twice who seemed to be into her, she didn't want to lead him on, so how about it, she asked my bf. (she did go on to date him for more than 18 months)

I just don't like that while he tries to frame her as "just a friend" I can see that he was capable of "putting out" far more money for his "just a friend" who, btw was not only dating the other guy who became her bf, but also told my bf that she was doing online dating.

See, this is the stuff that you men need to understand. If you spend more money on a woman who is openly dating other men while you're constantly doing the Dutch treat with the woman who is seeing you exclusively........then how should we interpret that........


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Lon said:


> Not sure if I get your meaning, if my definition is too complicated? By putting out I simply meant her showing him any signs of affection at all. To me it seems she is opening herself to receiving verbal affection from her ex but her intent is probably just one way. Yes if she flirts back, holds hands, kisses etc she would certainly not be able to no longer call it not a date.


I just use the more simple approach that if the activities are dating activities it is a date. 

I do not complicate by who pays or intent of intimacy or what level of sexual activity exists. Whether they kiss or cuddle. I think if you are spending a lot of one on one times together doing couple things it is dating.

BUT, I am saying that you make a good point. I think some people think it is not a date if the relationship has not progressed to haveing sex. It is just hanging out. I think hanging out is dating.

Otherwise for afar she could be dating and just saying we are just friends. How can one tell? They are spending a lot of one on one time together.


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## sportyguy28 (Jun 5, 2012)

well all 3 of us used to work together and they broke up after a 4 yr relationship and knowing and hangoing out with eachother since 6th grade. I mean they still txt alot and she gives him rides to and from work sometime. 

Me and her live together but i trust her (well i think i do). But she feel obligated to be his friend cause she broke his heart.. I think part of it is shes 20 and im 29. But alot of it i think is an emotional attachement she has still with him. we dated only a few week after they broke up and i think i should have giving her more time.. 

Normaly when they hangout its with other friends so idk but i do know that when she picks him up from work or takes him to work shes gone about 15-20 mins.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

So this gets more confusing by the minute.

First you identified her as a friend, then you're dating her, now she's living with you?

Do you have a fear of commitment? Do you think maybe he doesn't and that's why she's still attached to him?


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## sportyguy28 (Jun 5, 2012)

if i remember corretcly they have had like 2 times that they hungout alone since we have been together. i mean she tells me that she doesnt liek him liek that that she like and is with me and they are nothing but friends. I mean she goes and does what she says shes gonna do and while they are hanging out she still txts and talks to me so i really have no reason not to turst her i dont think.


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## sportyguy28 (Jun 5, 2012)

i deff have no fear for commitment i mean im 29 i want a commited relationship.


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## sportyguy28 (Jun 5, 2012)

im wondering if our age has anything to do with it. Friends tell me teh ex has to be holding on for some reason whether hes getting some or he thinks he has a chance to get back with her or shes making it seem like he does.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

sportyguy28 said:


> im wondering if our age has anything to do with it. Friends tell me teh ex has to be holding on for some reason whether hes getting some or he thinks he has a chance to get back with her or shes making it seem like he does.


Do you interact with this guy. the only way that i would let my partner hold on to an ex, or indeed, any other female friend, is if this female friend becomes a friend of both of us. If this guy disses you, how do you feel about it?


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

sportyguy28 said:


> i deff have no fear for commitment i mean im 29 i want a commited relationship.


If you were married the advice would be to cut it off, figure out what need she got from him and make sure you provide it to her yourself.

Hence both parts of the question. Don't just answer the first part.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

And you said she broke up with him. Does he still want to get back with her? What is he doing, waiting for you to screw up?


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## sportyguy28 (Jun 5, 2012)

well i didnt have a prob with him untill he started not letting her leave in stuff after they first broke up cause they had a 2br apt together. or she would tell him no and hed still try things or she would wake up to him watching her sleep. so i dont respect him at all. and i know he says he has no prob with me but hes been dissing me around town and thinks i stole her like shes some property.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Newsflash:

Neither of them respect you. He's still taking her out, and she's living with you and letting him right in front of your face. You're dissing yourself putting up with it.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

So he's an orbiter.

And maybe you're a chump.

If you want this woman, show her you're a man and take charge of the situation.


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## sportyguy28 (Jun 5, 2012)

well when ever i say anything about it to her or im about to say something to him she gets all defensive and says stuff liek i should be able to have friends and dont hurt him or say anything please i dont wanna see him hurt and you introuble.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> Newsflash:
> 
> Neither of them respect you. He's still taking her out, and she's living with you and letting him right in front of your face. You're dissing yourself putting up with it.


Exactly. She's keeping him in the wings. Op is the nice guy backup plan. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she was having sex with the ex. Actually I'd be surprised if she wasn't. She's clearly blatantly dating him and the op is too weak to stand up for himself or even leave when he's being obviously disrespected.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

sportyguy28 said:


> well when ever i say anything about it to her or im about to say something to him she gets all defensive and says stuff liek i should be able to have friends and dont hurt him or say anything please i *dont wanna see him hurt* and you introuble.


WTF!? Wow, that would make me want to hurt him. DON'T DO THAT.

Ok so there must be a reason you would want to hurt him.

So my answer is -- then go NC with him and we all are good.

Look, this is really not complicated. EXs are out. Tell her that her realtionship with her EX is unacceptable to you. If she chooses him over you, you got your answer and saved yourself further heart ache. 

Life is too short to be someone elses backup plan.

Life is too short to spend with cake eaters.

Life is too shor


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

WillK said:


> So he's an orbiter.
> 
> And maybe you're a chump.
> 
> *If you want this woman, show her you're a man and take charge of the situation*.


:smthumbup:


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

sportyguy28 said:


> well all 3 of us used to work together and they broke up after a 4 yr relationship and knowing and hangoing out with eachother since 6th grade. I mean they still txt alot and she gives him rides to and from work sometime.
> 
> Me and her live together but i trust her (well i think i do). *But she feel obligated to be his friend cause she broke his heart..* I think part of it is shes 20 and im 29. But alot of it i think is an emotional attachement she has still with him. we dated only a few week after they broke up and i think i should have giving her more time..
> 
> Normaly when they hangout its with other friends so idk but i do know that when she picks him up from work or takes him to work shes gone about 15-20 mins.


I hope he is not getting sympathy sex from her.

This is a very young chick. What are you looking for here? I mean is there a long term expectation here?


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

your gf is dating her ex


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## Davi (Apr 20, 2012)

It can be a date or cannot be! I mean, it depends that how that couple is taking it..If their are feelings then its a date otherwise dont know...


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

It is her EX she already fell in love with him a long time ago. But dating is hanging out together. This is how you facilitate love. So I don't know how many dates it takes to fall in love. But this is dating no matter the level of the love. This is the purpose of dating. To deepen ones bond with another person.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

SportyGuy, explain to us please a few things:

1. How a 29 year old can find a 20 yo worthy of an LTR. I write this because a 20 yo is usually in school, whether university or Community college. A 29 yo is usually somewhere at their first or second level of their career. 

20yos are still looking to club and party. Some 29 yos, but not all, are looking to settle down. 

2. What exactly about this woman makes you want to work around her need /desire to carry on a relationship with her ex.

I'm 52, so I'm a little bit experienced here, but my opinion is firmly set on this matter. If my partner wants to continue a friendship with his ex, it will be on my terms or we will not have a relationship. 

It appears that this relationship that you speak of is on her terms. As much as I read about women having trouble even finding a date, I find interesting when I read about a guy who puts up with so much agro from a woman.

But do enlighten me please.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

sportyguy28 said:


> well when ever i say anything about it to her or im about to say something to him she gets all defensive and says stuff liek i should be able to have friends and dont hurt him or say anything please i don't wanna see him hurt and you introuble.


Grow a pair buddy! Is this the pattern of a relationship you want to be in?! I have a news flash for you: If *you* think it's dating, it is dating. It doesn't matter what I think or anyone else thinks. Not even what she thinks. You need to respect yourself and set boundaries. You should not be cool with this relationship with the ex. PERIOD. Tell her you are not OK with it. When she tells you she should be able to have friend, agree. She can have all the friends she wants. And you will be her friend too, if she continues in this relationship with the EX. But if she wants to be your girl friend, her relationship with him ends; entirely. She can move out at the end of the month.


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## sportyguy28 (Jun 5, 2012)

Oh trust me weve talked abouther and the ex and well it never ends or even starts out good. It always sends with her thinking i dont trust her (when i do) or with her asking why shes not allowed to have any friends. I mean the other days she even tryed to kick me out even though we both are on the lease.. 

About the age thing idk it seems teh only women interested in me are 18-24 or 29-35 lol. and the 29-35 normally have kids and i love kids i just dont think im ready for that kinda responsibility with the kids.. 

theyve gone to the movies 2 times with ppl. but other rthen that theyve never hungout alone unless its while they are working with the kids at the church they work at.. 

It just seems liek when ever i bring anything up about the ex im the bad guy or being mean or im the asshoel thats surposibly trying to be controlling according to her..


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## sportyguy28 (Jun 5, 2012)

ive also been told that unless the word date is used its not a date that communication is big here now idk if thats bogus mombo jumbo or if it makes sense,


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

My son is 21 almost 22 and when he was just a few years younger about the same age as your woman friend/girlfriend he and his friends both male and female had some kind of family thing going on among them. That is, some of them were quite attached by personality and had got together intimately/sexually and then moved on from that but remained friends. I didn't even try to figure it out, I just accepted it. Sometimes the former lovers would be together at sleepovers and would snuggle up for comfort. I think it was generally agreed amongst them that these were close relationships but that they were young and would most likely move on. I got really used to seeing this and so paid no attention when a young woman was among a group of young women and men who stayed over at our house. One by one they got up in the morning and asked for coffee, shower, email/google map access, phone (no cell coverage where we used to live), etc....and hauled butt out to their summer jobs on a Monday morning in the city...i.e. 2-3 hours away...(we live in rural NH...) That was after my son's freshman year at college. It took me a while to realize that he had been with the same girl for a couple of years and announced that they were really dating...and that there was a problem because one of his former love partners was her roommate and that partner had a new boyfriend but nobody liked him...and they were urging her to dump him but she wouldn't and then was trying to drive a wedge between my son and his new love interest (whom he is still with) and they finally had to turn to me for help...I advised them to go to student counseling and my son's woman friend got her own room so she could sleep easy, the other girl got mental health counseling for her abusive relationship and o/c. The point is, they worked it out, because in this new world of young people being close and treating each other as family, it's understood that nobody is ostracized just because they're not having sex any more. They are still kind to each other even when someone goes nuts. They accept that they've had sex and they move on but stay in the same social circle with the same bonds that they had before they got old enough to have a sex life. Got to remember that some of these bonds were formed when carrying someone's books was a big deal. Or just hand holding or kissing. They've all learned together. I'm always impressed by how my son will walk the campus with me and fill me in on who has been with who, the whole history of it...but it's just accepted. They still have classes with each other and help each other out and give rides and loan stuff amongst themselves and give gifts for birthdays or whatever...it's like a tribe. If you're on the outside it makes no sense at all. But from the inside, it seems quite cozy and safe especially if you're in your early 20's and trying to get on in the world today, it doesn't make sense to not belong to such a tribe. I think it is a new phenomemon because of smaller families and people living away from say their cousins, and even having single parents who move on with their life after the young people get to be 18, 19, 20 and head out on their own. I know my son stays with his friends' families quite a lot. Although he adores me, I'm not enough family, he goes where the crowd goes for the most part. During his school breaks he stays with his girlfriend's family, but then he and his girlfriend visits others, and I think they both run into people they've both slept with before, at least I know my son does...and they manage. WE older people think...ohhhhh awkward. They're like, we grew up together (and growing up meant exploring sexuality...)

Still, if you're not comfortable with this bond, you need to move on if she is not going to give it up.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

sportyguy28 said:


> ive also been told that unless the word date is used its not a date that communication is big here now idk if thats bogus mombo jumbo or if it makes sense,


I'm going to say it one more time, because your didn't seem to "hear" it.

*IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT OTHER PEOPLE TELL YOU IS A DATE!!!*

You are a man who is not comfortable with this relationship. You must set up your own boundaries. If you worried what other people say than understand this: 90% of the folks on this board would say that continued personal relationships with "EXs" is innappropriate


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> My son is 21 almost 22 and when he was just a few years younger about the same age as your woman friend/girlfriend he and his friends both male and female had some kind of family thing going on among them. That is, some of them were quite attached by personality and had got together intimately/sexually and then moved on from that but remained friends. I didn't even try to figure it out, I just accepted it. Sometimes the former lovers would be together at sleepovers and would snuggle up for comfort. I think it was generally agreed amongst them that these were close relationships but that they were young and would most likely move on. I got really used to seeing this and so paid no attention when a young woman was among a group of young women and men who stayed over at our house. One by one they got up in the morning and asked for coffee, shower, email/google map access, phone (no cell coverage where we used to live), etc....and hauled butt out to their summer jobs on a Monday morning in the city...i.e. 2-3 hours away...(we live in rural NH...) That was after my son's freshman year at college. It took me a while to realize that he had been with the same girl for a couple of years and announced that they were really dating...and that there was a problem because one of his former love partners was her roommate and that partner had a new boyfriend but nobody liked him...and they were urging her to dump him but she wouldn't and then was trying to drive a wedge between my son and his new love interest (whom he is still with) and they finally had to turn to me for help...I advised them to go to student counseling and my son's woman friend got her own room so she could sleep easy, the other girl got mental health counseling for her abusive relationship and o/c. The point is, they worked it out, because in this new world of young people being close and treating each other as family, it's understood that nobody is ostracized just because they're not having sex any more. They are still kind to each other even when someone goes nuts. They accept that they've had sex and they move on but stay in the same social circle with the same bonds that they had before they got old enough to have a sex life. Got to remember that some of these bonds were formed when carrying someone's books was a big deal. Or just hand holding or kissing. They've all learned together. I'm always impressed by how my son will walk the campus with me and fill me in on who has been with who, the whole history of it...but it's just accepted. They still have classes with each other and help each other out and give rides and loan stuff amongst themselves and give gifts for birthdays or whatever...it's like a tribe. If you're on the outside it makes no sense at all. But from the inside, it seems quite cozy and safe especially if you're in your early 20's and trying to get on in the world today, it doesn't make sense to not belong to such a tribe. I think it is a new phenomemon because of smaller families and people living away from say their cousins, and even having single parents who move on with their life after the young people get to be 18, 19, 20 and head out on their own. I know my son stays with his friends' families quite a lot. Although he adores me, I'm not enough family, he goes where the crowd goes for the most part. During his school breaks he stays with his girlfriend's family, but then he and his girlfriend visits others, and I think they both run into people they've both slept with before, at least I know my son does...and they manage. WE older people think...ohhhhh awkward. They're like, we grew up together (and growing up meant exploring sexuality...)
> 
> Still, if you're not comfortable with this bond, you need to move on if she is not going to give it up.


Interesting observations. I be interested in knowing how things progress. For example, when they disperse to other cities after undergrad and need to make new friends, whether it will be easy to recreate this web of relationships or whether to need to observe the boundaries of others. And of course, how traumatic the transition be viewed. 

I used to have weaker boundaries when I was younger; think nothing of spending the night at a guy's place and assume no sex, and so on. At some point, you just realise life is much simpler when you behaviour is unambiguous.


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