# Is the success rate really 3 percent?



## Media_girl24 (Aug 19, 2012)

I'm the type of person who has to research everything and learn as much as I can about a topic in order to fully understand it. When I figured out that my H was cheating and divorced his ass, I started learning as much as I could about infidelity.

I keep seeing this figure of 3 percent being the success rate of relationships that result from affairs. While I certainly understand all the reasons why relationships that begin as affairs often fail, when I look at the relationships that began as affairs in my own circle of family and friends, it doesn't seem accurate.

My father cheated on my mother, and he married his AP. They were married until she died, for 18 years.

I have two friends who met their current spouses while they were married to other people; they are both still married to their AP's.

In my personal situation, my H discovered his college GF on Facebook, they started having their affair, her H found out and filed for D but didn't contact me, I suspected and confronted and was repeatedly told that I was over-reacting and they were "just friends." I filed for D based purely on my gut; and when he finally moved out several months later and moved in directly with this woman, he still wouldn't admit to the affair. I later found out that he had been seeing an old HS girlfriend as well who he had also located on FB, and HER H found out and it broke up their marriage, too. 

I know that I am better off without him and I don't miss him... he destroyed every shred of love I had for him during the affair and divorce process. Perhaps I am vindictive; I want his current relationship to fail. I really don't care if he finds someone later to be with; I just don't think that he and his AP should be rewarded with a long and healthy relationship when so many marriages and families were broken up in the process. My ex and I have a child, the college GF and her husband have three, the HS GF and her husband have two. All these kids are without married parents now. I've been in contact now with both of the other BS's, one seemed glad to be out of his marriage and the other was hurt but was moving along with his life and already has a great relationship. I've been dating but haven't met anyone who I have those feelings for, and that's okay. I feel that it will happen when the time is right, and know that I have a tremendous lot to offer a man. 

I don't have much communication with my ex except for issues regarding our child, and I have no idea how his life is going and really don't want to know. I realize that I should just put this aside and move along with my own life, and for the most part, I do. I keep telling myself that the karma bus will come along... but then I look at these other people I know and think, maybe not. Maybe they are destined to be together and I was just the collateral damage in the situation, and to be quite frank, that makes me feel like crap.

Thoughts? Is 3 percent really an accurate number?


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

*Media:*

I have no idea what the actual statistics are, but please don't let this consume you. 

Living well is the best revenge, imo. 

BTW - The karma bus definitely runs, just not on a regular schedule.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I don't think 3% represents what we think it does. I think it's talking about all relationships and not just the ones that carried into marriage. I suspect the ones that marry have a better percentage than that. My experience is that my ex was cheating. I filed papers and we divorced and she ended up marrying the OM. This was 20 years ago and they are still together. Now they have separated several times and she's have numberous affairs on him but I guess some guys can handle a serial cheater. 

Point is I only know one couple and they are still together. I personally don't understand how anyone could ever think the relationship is very special though if it started on betrayal.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Dear God! Your husband has destroyed three marriages that you know of. A veritable 'Typhoid Marty' of relationships.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> I keep seeing this figure of 3 percent being the success rate of relationships that result from affairs
> Thoughts? Is 3 percent really an accurate number?


I am going to give you my survey using the people that I have known for many years


Steve
John
Clyde
Richard 
Audrey
Mary Co
Mary	Ce
Wilbur
M-Ruth
Betty
Justine


All the above were cheaters and most remarried their cheater partner. Those that did not marry their cheater partner have been single.

All have very poor contentment in life and a few are a complete disaster. One female committed suicide.

I am sure that there are some that have cheated, been truly remorseful, did what had to be done to correct as many things as possible, and have a good life but right now I cannot think of any.

There may even be some that cheated, were never remorseful, married their affair partner and have a decent life. I just do not know any.


*To answer your question I would say that in my mini survey that those that marry their cheating partner had LESS than 3% success*. In fact none of those above have a successful relationship and seem to have a rather negative and uncontented life.

One last note. My conclusion is based on a time span of more than 10 years after cheating (Except for Clyde=4years). *So they may seem successful for the first few years but in the long term it does seem like Mr. Karma comes to visit them.*

However, I am sure that someone will have a different survey.


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## Media_girl24 (Aug 19, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Dear God! Your husband has destroyed three marriages that you know of. A veritable 'Typhoid Marty' of relationships.


He's my EX husband now!!!  I know. Can't quite believe it, either. And, he cheated on his first wife (I was #2) as well! Note to self: Don't get involved with any man who has a history of cheating!!!!

I've told him a million times that he needs therapy to really examine the issues that cause him to cheat, but he doesn't wanna do the heavy lifting that it involves. Seems completely oblivious to what he's done. I don't get it.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Found this, and it actually does quote the 3% number you mentioned. I would be interested in seeing the breakdown of how many of them last and flourish. I would bet that number is terribly low.

Can Relationships That Start as Affairs Succeed...Revisited | About Affairs


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Oh yeah, plenty of APs marry, and then cheat on each other like no tomorrow. 

Seriously 5 yrs ago they're all talking like its them against the world and now the guy is fat and the town manwh0re and the woman got diagnosed with Arthritis and is miserable. Her AP husband doesn't give a sh!t, whereas if she was still married to her old husband he'd be probably be taking care of her day and night.

The few that start a relationship by cheating yet have a complete supple and non adulterous relationship is really rare and the 3%.

Most APs get together and it doesn't work out or they have sh!tty relationships like the above.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Yeah, that 3% number is BS. It only applies to a specific study group. 

I'd say the number is probably closer to 15% to 30%. Clearly, a serial cheater such as your husband will be in the low end of the range.

The thing you really want to know is if your xH will be less happy without you and regret the day he strayed. The first you won't know because you aren't him and the second you may not ever know unless he chooses to tell you. I think they rarely do.

I'm in the same boat as you, sort of. My wife left me recently and she had left her first husband to be with me. When I put it like that, it sounds so simple. Yet the reality is much more complicated and it could have easily been we'd be married for life (we have kids together).


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Kasler said:


> Seriously 5 yrs ago they're all talking like its them against the world and now the guy is fat and the town manwh0re and the woman got diagnosed with Arthritis and is miserable. Her AP husband doesn't give a sh!t, whereas if she was still married to her old husband he'd be probably be taking care of her day and night.


Ha! This is the real karma bus. The cr*pola 'quality of life' with the AP.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Media_girl24 said:


> He's my EX husband now!!!  I know. Can't quite believe it, either. And, he cheated on his first wife (I was #2) as well! Note to self: Don't get involved with any man who has a history of cheating!!!!
> 
> I've told him a million times that he needs therapy to really examine the issues that cause him to cheat, but he doesn't wanna do the heavy lifting that it involves. Seems completely oblivious to what he's done. I don't get it.


This says it all. I got involved with a man with a history of cheating too. What a mistake! He needs therapy too....but just doesn't seem to see it. No heavy lifting.....ooooo what a surprise!


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Remains said:


> This says it all. I got involved with a man with a history of cheating too. What a mistake! He needs therapy too....but just doesn't seem to see it. No heavy lifting.....ooooo what a surprise!


Yeah, my STBXW has done a few IC sessions here and there but I don't know how deep she's dug. They just see life a different way. Their way!

I can say the my wife's father married his AP and they are still together, 30 years later. So maybe that's the model my wife is using.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Media_girl24 said:


> He's my EX husband now!!!  I know. Can't quite believe it, either. And, he cheated on his first wife (I was #2) as well! *Note to self: Don't get involved with any man who has a history of cheating!!!!*


This is common sense but not a very PC. Especially on TAM where if you mention that someone's past is an indicator of how they will be. Of course indicators are not always right but we have to use the knowledge we have at hand which is their past behavior. Talk about getting slammed by "my past does not define me" garbage.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I just saw a tv show avout the Kinsey institute at IU. Have you checked into their research. I haven't had time yet.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

If you are waiting for the cosmos to vindicate you, you are not going to be a happy person. 

Find vindication in your new life.


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## Media_girl24 (Aug 19, 2012)

WhiteMousse said:


> If you are waiting for the cosmos to vindicate you, you are not going to be a happy person.
> 
> Find vindication in your new life.


I'm not waiting for the "cosmos to vindicate me". I'm well aware that God works in his own ways and that I need to be patient. 

But, sometimes when its apparent that he's living his little life, free of any parental responsibility (he moved five hours away from our daughter and doesn't have much time to spend with her) and I'm dealing with the mess he left behind (parental, financial, answering questions from family/friends/neighbors, etc.) it just gets to be a little too much. 

And on the occasions when it gets to be a little too much, I reach out to people in the same situation and ask for a little camaraderie and guidance in wondering how it all plays out, from those who have been there. I'm well aware that living well is the best revenge, it just hasn't happened yet.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

In the long run, him moving 5 hours just might be the best thing that could happen. Out of sight out of mind.

Good luck and prayers.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Media_girl24 said:


> And on the occasions when it gets to be a little too much, I reach out to people in the same situation and ask for a little camaraderie and guidance in wondering how it all plays out, from those who have been there. I'm well aware that living well is the best revenge, it just hasn't happened yet.



It helps to just vent sometimes - especially when we're in a situation with no easy or obvious solution. And most especially when the only control we have is over our actions - not the actions of others.

I can't offer much in the way of advice, but just like most others here on TAM, I will always listen.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

I think the 3% is 'overall' in other words - the cheater and cheating partner won't be able to work it out for whatever reason - perhaps one decided to reconcile, they were shamed by adult children, etc. 

I just don't see how this number can be evaluated properly. I suspect there are more than a few divorces that occur because of an OM/OW that was never discovered. How do these get counted. 

In my close circle of friends and family I know of 3 people (two guys one gal) that cheated on their spouse and then married the AP. In two of those cases they remain married (more than 15 yrs each) in the other they separated but remain amicable. 

So I think the 3% is not reflective of anything at all.


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## Hermione (Dec 13, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> I think the 3% is 'overall' in other words - the cheater and cheating partner won't be able to work it out for whatever reason - perhaps one decided to reconcile, they were shamed by adult children, etc.
> 
> I just don't see how this number can be evaluated properly. I suspect there are more than a few divorces that occur because of an OM/OW that was never discovered. How do these get counted.
> 
> ...


The 3% is largely based on a study of upper income men, 4100 of them, who were questioned about the affairs. The study's author was Halper, I believe?

I have seen stats that show as low as 3% and as high as 25% success rate. I know there are other factors that go into it- including how many affairs even transition into a marriageable place.

I think the general takeaway- no matter if it is 3 or 25% is that the likelihood of success is quite low.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Hermione said:


> The 3% is largely based on a study of upper income men, 4100 of them, who were questioned about the affairs. The study's author was Halper, I believe?
> 
> I have seen stats that show as low as 3% and as high as 25% success rate. I know there are other factors that go into it- including how many affairs even transition into a marriageable place.
> 
> ...


I suspect it's on the low end for younger cheaters and much higher for same-age older (over 35 ) cheaters. I suspect the very lowest is for cheaters with wide age gaps.

But as for that, the overall success rate for all marriages is close to 50% so 
Not really that far apart.


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## Hermione (Dec 13, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> I suspect it's on the low end for younger cheaters and much higher for same-age older (over 35 ) cheaters. I suspect the very lowest is for cheaters with wide age gaps.
> 
> But as for that, the overall success rate for all marriages is close to 50% so
> Not really that far apart.


I believe the success rate for second marriages is lower than first marriages, which is also another factor. 50% is an average of all marriages- but there are breakdowns in different directions depending on the number of marriages. And it's even higher if there are children involved.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/leo-averbach/second-and-third-marriage_b_1326785.html

And not to be argumentative- but even at averaged 50% success rate, and using the highest number for an infidelity based marriage- it's 2x as likely to fail. I don't actually find that to be very close at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Media, everyone including your ex and the OW know what they've done. It takes a special (in a bad way) kind of person to feel like their relationship is not weakened by this.

Statistically speaking whether it's 3% or 10% we know either the act of how these relationships started or the character traits that caused them to start that way is not usually successful. I imagine there is regret even for the relationships that work out. They must look back and wish they had done things differently.

I think people who can not be alone are the ones who end up in these situations. They have to be with someone so the OM or OW are the only choice they have. I would hate to be in a marriage where I thought I settled for what was there in order to avoid being alone.


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## Hermione (Dec 13, 2012)

Also- because I am a hopeless geek- I believe the current divorce rate for first marriages is between 40-42% , based on the last census. Or something pretty close to that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

It's the dishonesty, lying, planing, and scheming that infuriates the betrayed. A desire to see karma come to those that engage in such callous behavior is probably a healthy thing. But really, it's a waste of time to dwell on these issues. 

There was a column on Huffington yesterday from a cheating wife that expressed dismay at her actions in being deceptive. She cited her faults at seeking happiness with someone else which led to her affair. She said she came to realize that happiness in from within not something others can bestow. 

According to her, she married her AP, grew as a person and is happy now with the AP. I was so sad for her BH, he put up with so much - and her? She "grew" as a person, became a better person and is applying all her 'new-found' knowledge to make her second marriage work. Doesn't seem fair to the BH. Not at all!

But life isn't always fair. It doesn't appear that the "Karma Bus" will make a stop at her home anytime soon. 

The point in all this is to help the OP recognize that, as much as she'd like to see his relationship fail (and by her description of his deviousness, it probably will) - it may be successful. Such is life. 

Don't look in the rearview mirror - look forward and make the most of what you have.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> Media, everyone including your ex
> I think people who can not be alone are the ones who end up i these situations. They have to be with someone so the OM or OW are the only choice they have. I would hate to be in a marriage where I thought I settled for what was there in order to avoid being alone.


:iagree:


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I think people who can not be alone are the ones who end up in these situations. They have to be with someone so the OM or OW are the only choice they have. I would hate to be in a marriage where I thought I settled for what was there in order to avoid being alone.


Another facets or driven forces behind the necessity to make it work are pride, stubbornness and social image. Once you break you own family due cheating, the " new relationship" MUST work at all costs. Not necessarily articulated in their mind but at least subconsciously. A second failure, this time with AP, might be recognize the wrong, let along the piled up financial consequences, public image, "divorce stress"...


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> It's the dishonesty, lying, planing, and scheming that infuriates the betrayed. A desire to see karma come to those that engage in such callous behavior is probably a healthy thing. But really, it's a waste of time to dwell on these issues.
> 
> There was a column on Huffington yesterday from a cheating wife that expressed dismay at her actions in being deceptive. She cited her faults at seeking happiness with someone else which led to her affair. She said she came to realize that happiness in from within not something others can bestow.
> 
> ...


I think Karma is deceptively sneaky. So long as everything is cruising along it will not appear. It's those difficult stretches in a relationship where thoughts creep in like is she cheating or does he love me or is our marriage strong. These are the times when that nagging insecurity and guilt show up. I'm sure there are many dynamics. I've heard several on TAM say something like "well he cheated on his first wife so I don't know what I expected". And I agree.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I did a bunch of research like this when my STBXW left me for OM.

I was a bit depressed because I learned that my wife was in the 2-5% club. Meaning only 2-5% of women in her income class, racial type and educational bracket would be divorced twice by age 35. My self-deprecating thought to myself was "Wow, I must be extremely hard to be married to in order for her to be in that club!". 

I further depressed myself by learning how a small % affairs end marriages when there are young children involved. My was willing to split the home to be with OM, and that really hurt. I knew it had to do a lot with her FOO (Family of Origin) issues but rational explanations didn't stop the pain. 

In terms of her chances with OM, the research says the chances are not good. She cheated/left her first H and she cheated/left her second H (me). The OM was married for 12 years but had an one A then left his W for my W. Prior to that he had a relationship with a married woman. So, the chances of them staying together for the long haul? Iffy at best. But maybe, just maybe they will. Maybe she's finally found "the one" for her. I wonder sometimes if two cheaters aren't better for each other because they're more likely to know when the other is cheating (they know all the tricks, right?) and maybe they have fewer expectations. The opposite could be true, too.. they just don't understand commitment.

I'm sorry to say this about your husband, but anyone who ditches their child like that is someone who will have more issues in their life. I can't imagine he will be happy until he reconciles the damage he's done. They are experts at rationalization though!


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Another facets or driven forces behind the* necessity to make it work are pride, stubbornness and social image*. Once you break you own family due cheating, the " new relationship" MUST work at all costs. Not necessarily articulated in their mind but at least subconsciously. A second failure, this time with AP, might be recognize the wrong, let along the piled up financial consequences, public image, "divorce stress"...


Absolutely. They've justified their deplorable behavior by saying it was meant to be. Once it's apparent that is was not written in the stars then they have to take responsibility for their actions that they've worked so hard to ellude. Not only for screwing up the first marriage but also for being so naive to reality. It's a double whammy.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I did a bunch of research like this when my STBXW left me for OM.
> 
> I was a bit depressed because I learned that my wife was in the 2-5% club. Meaning only 2-5% of women in her income class, racial type and educational bracket would be divorced twice by age 35. My self-deprecating thought to myself was "Wow, I must be extremely hard to be married to in order for her to be in that club!".
> 
> ...


This whole comment just SUCKS Mr Strong. The thing you were missing during the process is the serial cheater dynamic. It's unfortunate we humans were designed to internalize and assume blame for what others do to us. You know a big part of marriage is compatibility. It's possible that your ex and her OM think they deserve each other and really I think they do too. Neither deserve to be with someone like you. I learned so much from my first wife's cheating and how I responded to it. I hope good things came out of this for you as well.

I've been married 20 years to my second wife and I'm a better man and husband now because of the first marriage. Maybe what I learned about being strong and being the type of person I respect is what helped me find such a spectacular person to be with now.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Media_girl24 said:


> I'm not waiting for the "cosmos to vindicate me". I'm well aware that God works in his own ways and that I need to be patient.
> 
> But, sometimes when its apparent that he's living his little life, free of any parental responsibility (he moved five hours away from our daughter and doesn't have much time to spend with her) and I'm dealing with the mess he left behind (parental, financial, answering questions from family/friends/neighbors, etc.) it just gets to be a little too much.
> 
> And on the occasions when it gets to be a little too much, I reach out to people in the same situation and ask for a little camaraderie and guidance in wondering how it all plays out, from those who have been there. I'm well aware that living well is the best revenge, it just hasn't happened yet.


We are here to help and listen. The 3% is a very solid number. 80% of relationships out of an A fail. If the relationship goes to M, the D rate is twice that of marriages that do not have an A within them or 90%. The end result is slightly less than 3%. There is a lot of data to support these.

The living well will happen if you mover towards it. Work on yourself, do not let the bastard win. He will get his. Keep working on yourself.

Any man who turns away from his kids is not a man. He will die alone while you will always have the love you have given. You are luckier than you think.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

The guy who I believe is still with my XW was dating a married woman while seeing my then estranged wife. She got her older brother to visit this so-called other woman in my XW's affair and speak with her about giving up on the on and off relationship they had for a couple of years.

EDIT: I believe my XW was seeing this guy for couple of years. The evidence is in the fact that everyone at my job seemed to know except me. I think it all started with a conversation I had with a woman I worked with. I made a mistake telling her about something I did in my past. I believe that was the crack the wedge was driven into, but it took a couple of years to complete the job.

This guy was cheating on this married woman with my XW. He was also seeing others and having ONS with whomever. I guess she saw what she wanted to see. He had/has lots of friends supporting him in all he does with her. They reinforced my XW's feelings about me and "proved" their ideas about what kind of person I really am. 

As far as I know, she is still with this guy. He is younger than her. I believe they will be in for quite a ride, but I have no proof either way. What I do know is this. When I read on here about the connection a woman feels about someone due to brain chemicals connected with sex, I realize this has to be a major reason many folks including men stay in relationships which are very potentially harmful.

I believe these relationships will continue until some imaginary line is crossed, whatever that may be in the person's psyche. Once there is a belief that this line is crossed, the marriage is over. There is no turning back. We cannot know what this line is unless we know our partner very well. Our partners must be able to communicate with us on a deep level. We must then try to stay away from any actions which would initiate those fears and the responses which accompany them.

The communication is critical. Anyone who is able to date a married woman is able to access that deep connection with the AP. They are masters of emotional manipulation and as long as the sex is there, no one will be able to break through the relationship.

So, which comes first the chicken(sex) or the egg(emotional conection)? With two singles, the sex. When one is married, the egg. This is why an EA is so detrimental to a marriage and communication and intimacy are so important. 

My opinion. I had to give my take. Don't want hurt or influence anyone. I just needed to get this out and thought this was a good place to give my opinion, even if I am wrong.


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## Media_girl24 (Aug 19, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I did a bunch of research like this when my STBXW left me for OM.
> 
> I was a bit depressed because I learned that my wife was in the 2-5% club. Meaning only 2-5% of women in her income class, racial type and educational bracket would be divorced twice by age 35. My self-deprecating thought to myself was "Wow, I must be extremely hard to be married to in order for her to be in that club!".
> 
> ...


EX HUSBAND!!!! Let's not forget the "EX"!!!! 

During the process of us breaking up I once hacked into his cell phone and read her texts to him. Since they had been college sweethearts, there was lots of, "We were meant to be together" sentiments. Believe me, I sent back a few texts to her out of anger (and I do have a talent for telling it as it is.) Then H had the nerve to come to me and tell me how badly I had hurt her feelings with the texts. Really? I think the one that sent her over the edge was expressing how proud her children must be of her affair. Of course, he was still denying that they were having an affair at this point... they were just "good friends"... but the texts kept talking about how she couldn't wait until they were together long term and was also talking about the babies they were going to have together... rather funny, as she's in her late 40's and he's in his early 50's. They still haven't gotten married, and I think that's because he's nervous. There is something in the back of his head telling him that two failed marriages means you shouldn't rush into #3. I don't think she's figured out that he was boning the high school GF at the same time he was boning her! I could tell her, but I think she deserves the fun of figuring out that she's with a serial cheater all on her own, and she wouldn't listen to me, anyway. I'm the crazy ex-wife!

Yes, the fact that he moved five hours away and has sporadic visits and calls with our daughter has caused me to really examine just exactly what type of man I was married to for 14 years. And that's the part that hurts the most... watching her deal with the changes in her life as a result of having a dad she only sees every 3-4 months. I'm dealing with multiple behavior issues at school, she has high-functioning autism which doesn't help matters. I constantly question how I married someone who was so selfish, but he kept that selfishness hidden for much of the time. It makes me keep an internal list of character traits that I am hoping for in another man, but the list is so narrow that I fear I won't find that guy. 

I'm sure when and if I meet that man, I won't think as much about the karma bus coming to hit my ex. And, when I really think about it, I don't think I'll really get much satisfaction when and if it happens. Its all just sad.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

jim123 said:


> We are here to help and listen. The 3% is a very solid number. 80% of relationships out of an A fail. If the relationship goes to M, the D rate is twice that of marriages that do not have an A within them or 90%. The end result is slightly less than 3%. There is a lot of data to support these.
> 
> The living well will happen if you mover towards it. Work on yourself, do not let the bastard win. He will get his. Keep working on yourself.
> 
> *Any man who turns away from his kids is not a man.* He will die alone while you will always have the love you have given. You are luckier than you think.


The fact that he's willing to abandon his kids is just pathetic, self centered, and disgusting. I suspect you wouldn't take him back if he was trying and if you did then you'd never respect him again.


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## Media_girl24 (Aug 19, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> The fact that he's willing to abandon his kids is just pathetic, self centered, and disgusting. I suspect you wouldn't take him back if he was trying and if you did then you'd never respect him again.


Thundarr, I would never take him back. That option doesn't even enter into my thoughts. I'm no longer in love with him. And the #1 reason I wouldn't... because he left his child. That speaks volumes more to me than anything else. What happens within a marriage between two adults is one thing... and I'm not blameless in the failure of my marriage. But, to up and move one day without advance notice.. the image of my daughter sobbing at the window and begging him not to leave as her father pulled out of the driveway is one that is seared into my brain forever. 

He tells anyone who asks that the reason he left is because his elderly parents needed help and that he needed to be in his hometown for them, never mind that he moved in with the GF! He sort of forgets that he had a wife and child in the mix as well. He's also told a few mutual friends that I was cheating on him.. and I wasn't. He just wants to deflect the glare off himself.

Reading about midlife crisis helped me understand much of what happened. He is not a healthy man whatsoever. I do feel sorry for him in many ways. But, that doesn't mean that the hurt and disgust over what he did goes away. It doesn't.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I know 2 marriages that were formed with APs... my dad's, and one of my good friends. They have both been married for about 12 years to their APs; my dad is incredibly happy, my friend is content. 

The trust issue to me just seems like it'd be a huge obstacle.


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## AndreaZ (Dec 16, 2012)

I think it depends on each situation, but mostly the reason a couple gets married, and a persons character. Get married due to any reason but love, i.e. pregnancy with a spouse with low value system, breeds room for cheating. stay married due to children opens a pandoras box for cheating.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

michzz said:


> I really am dismissive of the whole karma bus thinking.
> 
> Some people just get away with being crappy to others and in harming their so-called loved ones in pursuit of their destructive urges.
> 
> ...


I'm not so much a karma will get you guy either but when I see behavior that I dislike and I think that same behavior will likely have negative consequences, I take pleasure in feeling that way since many other times I think bad behavior pays off.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Hermione*
> I think the general takeaway- no matter if it is 3 or 25% is that the likelihood of success is quite low.
> 
> 
> ...


My close circle of friends and relatives are 11 people and many of them I have observed for over 20 years. I know that Walkonmars and my survey of our close circle of friends and relatives is not a true scientific study but I do think that Hermoine’s statistics that he quoted are fairly accurate. Especially since it gives a low and high number.


The other question is even if they have stayed together for 15 years or more, the real question for success is how content are they? How content could one be if they know that their affair spouse was a cheater and betrayed their whole family with you? *Trust in a marriage is HUGE and very important for success and contentment.*




> *By Walkonmars*
> I suspect it's on the low end for younger cheaters and much higher for same-age older (over 35 ) cheaters. I suspect the very lowest is for cheaters with wide age gaps.
> 
> But as for that, the overall success rate for all marriages is close to 50% so
> Not really that far apart.




*25% to 50% is a big jump for success. In fact it is double*. If I ma going to gamble I would much rather spend my money on a 50% chance rather than a 25%, Forget about the 3%, I would never gamble on a 3% chance of success.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I know of a couple who are both serial cheaters, he is her fourth husband. He cheated on his wife multiple times, they divorced remarried and he cheated with his friends wife and is now married to her. Now its like a thing for people to ask have they cheated on each other yet?

No matter where a cheater goes, there they are.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Had to do some looking around but I found this....couple who married after an affair.

Clip 1

Clip 2

I don't believe in karma but I think everyone will wake up to the reality of life once they are past the madness of the affair. Well, some do, some don't.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Never know the true number for a truly successful R.

Stays for the kids but crappy marriage, not successful.

Stays for financial security and still not happy, not successful.

Stays because they're co-dependent, not successful.

There are more reasons people stay together in a bad marriage.

People can throw out numbers all they want, people lie on alot of surveys anyways. But I wouldn't be surprised if it is very low, maybe not 3% but close enough. Divorce rate is over 50% now so I can believe the success rate isn't too high for a marriage that I would count as a successful reconciliation after an affair.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Media_girl24 said:


> I'm not waiting for the "cosmos to vindicate me". I'm well aware that God works in his own ways and that I need to be patient.
> 
> But, sometimes when its apparent that he's living his little life, free of any parental responsibility (he moved five hours away from our daughter and doesn't have much time to spend with her) and I'm dealing with the mess he left behind (parental, financial, answering questions from family/friends/neighbors, etc.) it just gets to be a little too much.
> 
> And on the occasions when it gets to be a little too much, I reach out to people in the same situation and ask for a little camaraderie and guidance in wondering how it all plays out, from those who have been there. I'm well aware that living well is the best revenge, it just hasn't happened yet.


There is a saying in eastern asia: Whatever has happened, happened for good;whatever is happening is happening for good; whatever will happen, will happen for good; 

I follow this motto and I'm connecting the dots. I find that in-fact whatever has happened happened best for me. I've very bright future ahead, of course the pain of being BS is part of my life now.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

John2012 said:


> There is a saying in eastern asia: Whatever has happened, happened for good;whatever is happening is happening for good; whatever will happen, will happen for good;
> 
> I follow this motto and I'm connecting the dots. I find that in-fact whatever has happened happened best for me. I've very bright future ahead, of course the pain of being BS is part of my life now.


I'm not sure we intepret that the same way. I think "good" means "done and cannot be changed". I don't think it mean some good reason or something good resulted. Maybe that's how I want to interpret it though.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I'm not sure we intepret that the same way. I think "good" means "done and cannot be changed". I don't think it mean some good reason or something good resulted. Maybe that's how I want to interpret it though.


"good" means "done and cannot be changed". Below story is what I read everyday:


Stay as grounded as you can avoid the knee jerk reactions the best you can. You will get better at it.

There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically. "May be," the farmer replied. The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed. "May be," replied the old man. The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "May be," answered the farmer. The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "May be," said the farmer.


So sit in the middle of the Seesaw, be less impacted by the highs and lows, preserve your emotional peace. This works well in life.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

John2012 said:


> So sit in the middle of the Seesaw, be less impacted by the highs and lows, preserve your emotional peace. This works well in life.


I like this^^^


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

John2012 said:


> "good" means "done and cannot be changed". Below story is what I read everyday:
> 
> 
> Stay as grounded as you can avoid the knee jerk reactions the best you can. You will get better at it.
> ...


Thank you for sharing this. It is what has been rolling around in my mind since I have been able to start thinking a little more. My thoughts are very similar to this story.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Cheaters love anecdotal evidence.

We can all find an example of the 90 year old 2 pack a day smoker...


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

John2012 said:


> So sit in the middle of the Seesaw, be less impacted by the highs and lows, preserve your emotional peace. This works well in life.


That is an awesome quote and philosophy John.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

ing said:


> Cheaters love anecdotal evidence.
> 
> We can all find an example of the 90 year old 2 pack a day smoker...



My grandmother was like that. she lived to the age of 92. She was 3 packer in her heyday. Smoked when she was pregnant. Drank and smoked till the day she died.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Anecdotal evidence is just that. Of all the people i know who've cheated (my personal situation aside) the success rate of the relationships born out of cheating have been 0%. (5 or 10 cases off the top of my head)

I've seen 3%, 10% and approx 5% success rate bandied about in different circles. 

I would side with studies rather than my own observed 0% success rate. 

Regardless of the number, the chances are low. 

Almost by default WSs were already punished. They left what's usually a stable, decent partner for one who isnt. They chose to punish their kids for their own short comings. 

Often times this reaping doesn't happen for many years. This usually permanently damages the relationships with their kids, often to the point of causing contempt in later years. 

I think we all know cases where a son or daughter didn't attend their mother or fathers funeral because "she/he ran off when i was a kid." I think we all also know of cases where a parent, in their later years, regrets their lack of responsibility and tries to reconnect with a child and fails, or laments their lack of involvement with grand kids. 

Regardless,it's all better to worry about moving on to a better relationship in the future.


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## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

My view on the issue - it depends on type the type of affair...

For the ONS or even long-term lust affairs the success rate is close to zero - lust tends to vaporize really fast...

For true love affairs (mind, body and soul) the success rate I believe is considerably higher...


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I have kids, so it's in my best interest to see my kids happy.

If my stbxh becomes my ex husband and is happy, my life will be better because my children's father will be a better father to them if he is happy.

I don't want him but wish him the best because in the long run, it will be better for everyone.

As long as I don't have live with him, I don't care. Hopefully he will find a decent OW.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

Aerith said:


> My view on the issue - it depends on type the type of affair...
> 
> For the ONS or even long-term lust affairs the success rate is close to zero - lust tends to vaporize really fast...
> 
> For true love affairs (mind, body and soul) the success rate I believe is considerably higher...


I think there are a few cases where the chances of success are greater.

If the WS has been in an abusive marriage (real, not imagined) and her AP is the one who helps them to get out of it, it may work.

I also think that WSs who find their "soulmates" will try twice as hard to make the new marriage work, because they don't want to experience the shame of failure again.

Loveless marriages are everywhere, hate to say it, and leaving a loveless marriage for Mr or Mrs Wonderful is not a hard choice for many people. As long as they can keep telling themselves that their previous marriage was a mistake and a bust, they will look at their present marriage with their AP in a far better light.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Awesome necro thread..

My MIL married her OM.. they are both miserable, but co-exist together. He's way younger than her, and could get out but he has no self-esteem and feels like he owes her something, plus she's all he's known... They did seem to have an okay relationship at one time, but she did cheat on him... but since she's the queen of gaslighting and blameshifting, I'm sure it's all his fault. He goes to IC, she doesn't.. because she just does pills instead.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I would have to agree with the three percent rate, because from what I've observed in real life, I've never seen any successful relationship that started out as an affair. They ALL ended up cheating on one another.

But I do know this fact: My XW who cheated on me, did NOT marry her OM. All I know is that the man I see that she's married to on facebook isn't the OM. Who knows how many men she went thru before settling on this guy. But she's super fat now, so she may not able to attract many men or cheat on this guy. 

And when she was married to me, she was sizzling hot. :rofl:


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

I hope my WS and his skank of a home wrecking s*ut do not make it. I hope once he is with her 24/7 he realizes why it did not work for them back in HS besides the fact they were young.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Media_girl24 said:


> Thoughts? Is 3 percent really an accurate number?


I've read the 3% and do think it's true.


Of that 3%, 75% end up divorced as most of the relationships do eventually fail. At least that's what the stats say.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

I don't know what to think of the 3% number....feel it is to low, but only FEEL as I have no way to really know. In my case two years ago my XW moved immediately into the AP home, divorced me in 82 days and married him 4 months later. Since then she has seen our 2.5 year old granddaughter one time, ( I see her every three months) because the gd lives in Florida and the POSOM wont let my x travel without him, and he is not welcome (x saw gd when I flew them here for the holidays). Since then my x has given up her cell phone (I assume at his urging), if you want to talk to her you call him and he will get her for you (no land line) because of this my 22 year old daughter has not talked with her mother for over a year, (she doesn't like the POSOM, wants nothing to do with him.) 
They live 5 blocks from me, have not seen her in 18 months, they just stay home, no one who has seen her, has seen her without him. She is his 5th wife (3 divorces, one death). 
Is she happy? Don't know. But I gotta believe one day it will hit home, and you never get the years back with your granddaughter. I don't need the Karma bus to arrive, already sucks to be her. I have no problem seeing them married for a long time but cant see how this relationship can be called successful.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Most WS try to avoid being held accountable. It's logical that some would like to blame true love and finding their soul mate for their actions rather than admit they were selfish and caused pain.

Also most WS are emotionally weak and are afraid to be alone. They have to jump from one relationship to another like a flying squirrel. Generally who's there to catch them in this context is their AP who almost always has low character as well.

I suspect WS and AP are very invested in these relationships because they don't want to be accountable for getting out of their previous relationship in a selfish, weak, and sh!tty way. if it doesn't work then they have to admit to themselves what everyone around them already knew. Even with this huge pressure to make it work and the odds are still very low. That shows that effort cannot override low character most of the time.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

*Re: Re: Is the success rate really 3 percent?*



Hermione said:


> Also- because I am a hopeless geek- I believe the current divorce rate for first marriages is between 40-42% , based on the last census. Or something pretty close to that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If I remember correctly, some no-fault states stopped counting divorce statistics, like CA (where I live). Considering how many divorces take place in CA, you can't even rely on the census in this case.

ETA:

My dad married his AP 10+ about 14 yrs ago and has been content. I actually live his wife and think they are far better suited for each other than my parents ever were. They have however been through some trust issues stuff, not surprisingly.

A best friend of mine also married his AP... They've been together about 10 yrs, have 4 children (1 together). He never talks about her, and when I asked why we got into a discussion about their marriage being passionless and stagnant. They are friends parenting children in his opinion... He is apathetic in matters that don't involve his children. He has admitted that if a situation presented itself and he was interested, he isn't sure he would turn it down. Sad really... He is a marketing rep and travels a lot, so I kind of think at some point it is imminent.... Maybe when his youngest is older (10yo now).


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## Singleton (May 30, 2013)

This question came up before and I am re-posting what I wrote there. 

Here is the math:

Out of 100 couples, (Pittman's sample in his book Private Lies)
He said 50% of affairs couples divorced.
But, only 12% (12) actually married OP.
And then 75% of those failed (12*.75)= 9
Thus only 3 married betrayers are left

So divorce rate for the cheaters is 75%. However, the chances for cheaters to end up in a successful marriage is 3%. So if the cheaters marry their success rate is 25%. However, when the cheaters start cheating and start talking marriage, the chances of marrying and then succeeding in that marriage is only 3%. I hope that clears some confusion.

Personally, I cannot wait for my cheating ex-wife to marry her AP :smthumbup:


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