# Want more wife, less career



## maryland_mark (Nov 29, 2012)

New user obviously, I need some place to vent.

We're both 25, been married almost 3 years. Life is 'mostly' good.

I've got a well paying job, wife has an average-paying job, but she absolutely hates the people she works with. She's a very go-getter type personality. 4.0 all through college, she gets stuff done and her coworkers and boss are mediocrities at best. 

She wanted to go to graduate school online to advance her career. She has anxiety issues, but we've found that the best way to counter her anxiety is for her to be busy with work/projects where she can apply her energy. If she sits at home too long without anything to do she starts to go insane. For this reason, I fully support her career and grad school.

Then something came up. Maybe you've heard about this article?
The war on men | Fox News
The gist of the article is that less men want to get married nowadays because a lot of women are more career oriented and don't want to 'be women' anymore. 

I read it and was very curious as to what she thought, we both consider ourselves to be intellectual and value each other's opinions. Well she about blew it when she read this thing - got super pissed off - especially when I said that 'I think that there's some truth to the article' and that I could relate to how some guys could feel that way. We eventually got over it after arguing for a while, but then one of my siblings posted the article on facebook saying what a great article it was and so we argued about it again! She's super offended that I said I could relate to how some guys would get turned-off to the modern woman, because she is the modern woman. I should have just kept my mouth shut, but it's what I feel inside. 

It's making me have such an inner conflict. I love my wife, but sometimes I catch myself wishing I had married someone who would have more interest in being a mom instead of having a career. We don't have kids yet, I want to start soon, she wants to wait. She hates cooking, I do almost all the cooking. She hates doing laundry, I do most of that too. She comes home from work and usually 'rants' about how bad her work is for a good half hour. I've told her quite often that if at any time she wants to just stay home and have/raise our kids, I am totally fine with that. I make enough money to support us, but she gets offended that I would even suggest that. 

Am I so wrong in wishing that my wife was more wife and less career? I want someone that compliments me, not a copy of me.

Like I said, not any real problems, just confused about life. It's not a deal breaker or anything, I just find myself wishing I would have taken another path 3 years ago.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I think it of paramount importance that a couple have common dreams and aspirations. It is one of the very foundations of a successful marriage. It sounds like the two of you are diametrically opposed in this exceedingly basic requirement of a happy and healthy marriage.


My elder son has a partner who is very much a modern woman, exceedingly so. It’s a very big part of what he loves and appreciates about her.


Seems like you’ve discovered you married the wrong type of woman for the type of man you are. Marriage is full of compromises. But there really shouldn’t be any sacrifices because that just breeds bitterness and resentment.

It’s unlikely that either of you will be happy unless the other makes a big sacrifice. But that does not make the marriage as a whole a happy one and someone, probably both, will end up bitter and resentful.


----------



## Jane_Doe (Aug 9, 2012)

Firstly, that article is pure and utter 100% trash. It shows blatant ignorance about feminism, women, men and culture. But if that was the catalyst to your argument, then that does show that you and your wife have entirely different viewpoints on life and your future together. Did you know this about one another when you married? Did you discuss your career/childrearing/future goals at all when you were engaged, and if so, what did you come up with? How has that changed from then to now?


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Sounds to me like your sibling is a shet stirrer. Toxic friends are something to be kept a weathered eye on.


----------



## maryland_mark (Nov 29, 2012)

AFEH said:


> It sounds like the two of you are diametrically opposed in this exceedingly basic requirement of a happy and healthy marriage.


I don't think I would go that far. We're very happy for the most part.



Jane_Doe said:


> Did you know this about one another when you married?


Pretty much, but we were also engaged at 21 and married at 22. Things I never thought would be important to me are beginning to become more important, like raising a family.

She's not opposed to kids, she just wants to wait a few more years and has no intention of being a stay at home mom.
I've made peace with this, and like I said, I find myself wishing at times that it wasn't that way.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

maryland_mark said:


> I don't think I would go that far. We're very happy for the most part.





maryland_mark said:


> I just find myself wishing I would have taken another path 3 years ago.



That's called being conflicted. In your case seriously conflicted.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I haven't even read the article but believing that 40 years of feminist ideas trump thousands of years of human evolution and proven success is a little audacious and naive. Feminism has brought us increased juvenile delinquency, decreased academic achievement in our young and increased female and child poverty. But hey, it's trendy and it's politically correct and that's all that matters. Never mind that the standard of living for a 1950s family with a single wage-earner was actually higher than that of the increasingly rare, married, two-wage earner mom/dad with biological kids configuration we have today. I have no desire to keep anyone "down" but feminism hasn't been an unqualified success.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Jane_Doe said:


> Firstly, that article is pure and utter 100% trash. It shows blatant ignorance about feminism, women, men and culture. But if that was the catalyst to your argument, then that does show that you and your wife have entirely different viewpoints on life and your future together. Did you know this about one another when you married? Did you discuss your career/childrearing/future goals at all when you were engaged, and if so, what did you come up with? How has that changed from then to now?


_In a nutshell, women are angry. They’re also defensive, though often unknowingly. _

Author sure went and got that bit right!

Read more: The war on men | Fox News


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You got married very young before you knew what your values were in life. This is why people recommend waiting until around 30 for marriage.

The thing is, don't give her a list of things she should change about herself.

You should in your marriage really learn who your wife is deep inside. You should verbalize your values and desires in life. She is also young and her values are still forming. She may agree with your value system and adopt it. Or the process of speaking about your ideas and your learnging about who your wife is on a deep level could cuase you to modify your thinking. You will eventually discover if the person you married fits withing your values or not. That's when you have kids or get divorced.


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

maryland_mark said:


> We're both 25


I'm going to respond by telling you my story. I used to be your wife. I got married at 25 and had ZERO interest in kids. I wanted a career and did have one (I'm a CPA). That career almost killed my marriage but that's for another post.

Fast forward 8 years and at the age of 33 that career just isn't fulfilling anymore. I began to want more so I finally caved on having kids. My husband had wanted them for years but I always wanted to wait. 

I laugh at myself now because I'm now 46 with THREE kids. Not every woman feels this way but once I had my son I just couldn't bear to have anyone raise him but me so I walked away from my job. I've been a homemaker for 9 years now. I even discovered I love to cook. Who knew? I NEVER cooked before kids. 

So my sincere advice is this. You're not wrong in what you want. Most men do long for the domestic life however you are so very very young. Too young I think to have kids (just my opinion - no slams for the young parents out there). You will both change a lot in the next 5-8 years.

I think you should take a wait and observe stance. Give it a few years and see how she feels then. Just don't wait too long in case she truly is one of those women not interested in domesticity.


----------



## maryland_mark (Nov 29, 2012)

Mavash said:


> I think you should take a wait and observe stance. Give it a few years and see how she feels then.


Sounds like good advice to me. I have a feeling we will both be very different people in 5 years. I look back at myself at 20 and I was a completely different person

I am very happy with my life, but I think everyone has those 'what could have been' moments. Life isn't perfect and you make your choice to be the right one.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

My understanding is the closer your wife gets to menopause without having had children, the greater will be her desire to do so. It’s the fertility ticking clock syndrome. It seems to be a Golden Rule.


My son and partner’s agreement is the one who’s earning the least money when their child is due is the one who stays at home to care for it. It has been and still is exceptionally important for his partner to do well on the career ladder before having children.


----------



## barcafan (Jul 25, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> I haven't even read the article but believing that 40 years of feminist ideas trump thousands of years of human evolution and proven success is a little audacious and naive. Feminism has brought us increased juvenile delinquency, decreased academic achievement in our young and increased female and child poverty. But hey, it's trendy and it's politically correct and that's all that matters. Never mind that the standard of living for a 1950s family with a single wage-earner was actually higher than that of the increasingly rare, married, two-wage earner mom/dad with biological kids configuration we have today. I have no desire to keep anyone "down" but feminism hasn't been an unqualified success.


Ahhhh...Music to my ears! Sorry to say it man..but if she can't keep you happy then what incentive do you have to stay married at such a young age? If you think you will be truly unhappy and are wishing you had married someone else or had not married at all then that tells you more than anyone on here ever could.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

OP, this is the sort of thing that should be discussed before getting married. 

As far as the article goes, being career orientated doesn't make a woman less of a woman, anymore than becoming a mother makes her more of one. It might make her less likely to want to start a family whilst she's at the early stages of carving her career, but it doesn't mean that she's incapable of being a good mother when the time is right for her.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Regarding the article, right facts, wrong interpretation. Written by a woman who has the clairvoyant power to know why men make major decisions for their lives. Please.

Op - welcome to 2012. Don't waste another second feeling sorry for yourself with selfish regrets. Resolve to take the lead in your marriage and apply your many strengths to making it work. First,make it a point to get yourself the tools and understanding you will need. At the very least, understand what maturity and mature behavior are and make sure that's what you're doing. Next, find out about healthy boundaries and how to set them and slowly start using them in a loving manner.

Love your wife for what she is. Let her own her feelings and insecurities and don't take them on yourself. Assert your personal right to wish for whatever you desire and accept that we can't always get what we want. For the record, my wife acts a lot like a 1960's dad with a stay at home wife. I pick up the slack because I'm the man and I'm responsible. Cooking, cleaning, laundry, these are not her jobs. Her job is to help. I respectfully gain her cooperation by letting her know what I think we need help with. If she is not able to do what I suggest, I humbly try to find something else for her.


----------



## ToughCookie (Nov 29, 2012)

maryland_mark said:


> New user obviously, I need some place to vent.
> 
> We're both 25, been married almost 3 years. Life is 'mostly' good.
> 
> ...


I know exactly how you feel, I'm in a boat similar to yours except it's my husband's hobby that gets in the way. We have been together for 3 years, married for 1. My husband is a pro R/C driver, so all that ever goes on in our house is r/c, continuous conversations, all our money spent on it, all his time spent at the track, and now he wants me to start doing it with him. As if it doesn't consume our lives enough! 

Because of his energy being used 100% on this, we barely have a sex life, we are always broke, and I do everything for him! As if he is a child and I am his mother! We both have full time jobs, I cook dinner every night, make his plate for him. We have two dogs, I always am the one to feed them, bath them, and taking them on walks. I do his laundry, pick up after him (dirty cups, plates, garbage) you name it, I do it! Pay the bills, clean the house! Its been done! 

I am so tired of having to treat him like my 5 year old son, I want him to take some responsibility! He even slacks at work when he has a big race coming up because he thinks about cars 24/7. He has already been written up once and the next time he will be terminated and he doesn't seem to care.... I am lost! I've tried talking to him and he doesn't listen.

I need a husband to take care of me as I do him, I thought this was suppose to be a partnership not career. I would love to start having kids and be a stay at home mom. But that is not going to happen when I am essentially a full time single mother already....


----------



## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

I won't tell you what to do with your life, but I will tell what I am doing with mine.

* We should both have an income and a career.
* We should be able to support the household on one income like in the old days. The rest can go wealth accumulation and discretionary treats.
* We should both spend time caring for and bonding with any kids.
* There is nothing feminine about child-rearing and nothing masculine about making money at a desk job. Being a man is about what kind of frame you maintain in your relationship, not which tasks you check off the todo list.


----------



## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Those are definitely must-have conversations prior to getting married. How many children, when, how will we raise them (religion/discipline/etc.), where do we want to raise them, who will stay home (or not).

There are times that those feelings do change or circumstances change but at least being on the same page when you enter into this contract puts you on better footing.


----------



## ToughCookie (Nov 29, 2012)

I agree with you 100%, those are very wise points. My only issue is my husband does not care to be the man of the house or to make any decisions, he puts all responsibility on me, he never helps nor does he care to.

Let me ask you a question: When you are sick, who takes care of you? Do they go out of their way to do things for you, so you may take the time to rest and get better?


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

OP: You are not alone in your views.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

maryland_mark said:


> Am I so wrong in wishing that my wife was more wife and less career? I want someone that compliments me, not a copy of me.
> 
> Like I said, not any real problems, just confused about life. It's not a deal breaker or anything, I just find myself wishing I would have taken another path 3 years ago.


You missed the boat on having this discussion, that isn't a bad thing. 

So here is my suggestion. You would be well served by defining EXACTLY what your deal breakers are ... now. And stick to them.

If your wife wants to chase her dream and be all she can be, there is nothing wrong with that ... unless it is at the expense your dreams and your pursuit of all you want to be. And the only person who can be aware of that, is you.

Don't let the equation get any more out of balance than it already is.

People can say that the article is trash, but the statistics do not lie. Boys ... young boys are often growing up without a father in the household, doing worse in school, far more prone to learning disabilities and graduate college at a lesser rate than women. Maybe people think that's a great thing. Not me. 

It isn't a zero sum game.
The paradigm has shifted much too far and needs adjustment. And it needn't be at the expense of one gender or the other.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

There's nothing wrong with wanting a traditional wife or wanting a gang-banging, skydiving, stripteasing midget. I think the trick is to clearly know what you want, to be honest with yourself about what you want, to be honest with your prospective mate about what you're looking for, and to figure these things out before putting a ring on someone's finger.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

maryland_mark said:


> The gist of the article is that less men want to get married nowadays because a lot of women are more career oriented and don't want to 'be women' anymore.


So what is the definition of ‘woman’ that women today are not living up to according to your and this author’s definition?

Some time ago I read an article written in the 1880’s by a man. He was lamenting that men were changing and thus the family structure was changing, all for the worse, due to the industrial revolution. That in the past men stayed close to home and farm, working closely with their wife to take care of their home, farm and family. He said that girls, starting at age 4, stayed with their mother and learned to do ‘womanly’ things like take care of the younger children, home, spin wool, make clothing, cook, etc. Boys, starting at the age 4, went out to work the fields, care for the livestock and hunt with their fathers. Of course there were times when the men folk pitched in at home and when the women folk pitched in on the farm. It was about survival. If it was time for the crops to come in and there was not enough male labor to bring in the crop the women folk were in the fields working right next to the men.

This author lamented that now men left their wife to raise all of the children.. both the girls and the boys. And since young boys were no longer spending their youth being taught by men they were no longer learning to be men. He also lamented that women were left with little support and very much alone by their husbands no longer working close to home as they did before. Instead, these boy being raised by women who lacked the support (not financial support… ) were unable to raise the boys correctly. That the crime rate was on the rise as lazy young men were seen everywhere getting in trouble and on and on. To the author the industrial revolution was destroying the family and would thus destroy civilization.

Now today you look at the kind of man who this author said was the cause of the destruction of the family as the basis of what a man should be. And you look at this woman, who is left mostly alone to raise both boys and girls with little true support from her husband as the idea of womanhood.
Apparently this was a topic of a lot of article written about social trends back in the 1880’s into the early 1900’s.

What do you think family structure was like when humans were hunter/gatherers? We know that often the women hunted with the men… at the very least going along in the party that collected butchered and brought back the kill. We know that men and women gathered together. In those societies who raised the children? Who stayed home with them while the younger, healthy adults hunted and gathered? It was generally the older children too young to hunt, the elderly and the disabled. Children were raised by the tribe as much as they were by their parents. 

It’s funny how societal and norms change. And it’s even funnier how oftentimes perspective depends on what generation you were born into.

My point … society defines the roles of the sexes.. and these have been defined and re-defined at different times in history.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ToughCookie said:


> I agree with you 100%, those are very wise points. My only issue is my husband does not care to be the man of the house or to make any decisions, he puts all responsibility on me, he never helps nor does he care to.
> 
> Let me ask you a question: When you are sick, who takes care of you? Do they go out of their way to do things for you, so you may take the time to rest and get better?


TC.. you should start your own thread and get some input on your situation. I'd be more than happy to give you some support... i have a similar situation.

But don't want to hijack this thread with a different topic.


----------



## ToughCookie (Nov 29, 2012)

Good point, Ill do that, thank you!


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Some women want to be housewives. Others don't. But the ones who don't seem to get offended when they meet men who are only interested in the former. I know I wouldn't give a career woman a second glance. Is that so wrong? It's just my preference.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Now today you look at the kind of man who this author said was the cause of the destruction of the family as the basis of what a man should be. And you look at this woman, who is left mostly alone to raise both boys and girls with little true support from her husband as the idea of womanhood.


The whole idea that so many men today don't want to step up and be responsible husbands and fathers is very sad. The idea that they think this is somehow women's fault is even sadder.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> The whole idea that so many men today don't want to step up and be responsible husbands and fathers is very sad. The idea that they think this is somehow women's fault is even sadder.


I whole heartedly agree with this.

One thing that the article does not bring up is the percentage of men who entering into long term live-in relationships. I’ll bet that number is fairly significant.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> I whole heartedly agree with this.
> 
> One thing that the article does not bring up is the percentage of men who entering into long term live-in relationships. I’ll bet that number is fairly significant.


I'm sure it is. I suppose we'll blame women for that also.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

EleGirl said:


> So what is the definition of ‘woman’ that women today are not living up to according to your and this author’s definition?
> 
> Some time ago I read an article written in the 1880’s by a man. He was lamenting that men were changing and thus the family structure was changing, all for the worse, due to the industrial revolution. That in the past men stayed close to home and farm, working closely with their wife to take care of their home, farm and family. He said that girls, starting at age 4, stayed with their mother and learned to do ‘womanly’ things like take care of the younger children, home, spin wool, make clothing, cook, etc. Boys, starting at the age 4, went out to work the fields, care for the livestock and hunt with their fathers. Of course there were times when the men folk pitched in at home and when the women folk pitched in on the farm. It was about survival. If it was time for the crops to come in and there was not enough male labor to bring in the crop the women folk were in the fields working right next to the men.
> 
> ...


That author was correct. I have seen similar citations. Industry meant that men spent the bulk of their time away from their family. Lost opportunities to teach and interact with children, particularly sons. And lost opportunity with their spouse.

The western paradigm has now swept up women as well, wouldn't you agree?

Family obligations are seen as a drain on 'productivity' in the workplace. 

Just read an article today that the US birth rate is the lowest it has ever been since they began measuring.

This is our fault, not his fault or her fault.

People really need to hash out these value systems prior to taking the vow.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> I'm sure it is. I suppose we'll blame women for that also.


I already know the arguement that is used to blame women for this.

If women would hold men to higher standards the men would marry them and not shack up with with them.

It's all our faults.. all of societies ills are the fault of the lose, career minded modern woman... shame on me and all of us.

So obviously the only answer is going back to a societal structure that gives women one choice in life.. get married, have children and be a SAHM/W.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> I already know the arguement that is used to blame women for this.
> 
> *If women would hold men to higher standards the men would marry them and not shack up with with them.*
> 
> ...


A lot of what I see in my country is about women not holding themselves up to high enough standards. In fact I think the one in four households being single parent is because the women in them have such very low standards for themselves.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

OP,

I would venture to guess that it's your wife's refusal to participate equally and her anxiety issue that bothers you. Basically she bothers you because she's not easy to live with.

It has little to do with roles of women in society at large or even with her career.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

unbelievable said:


> There's nothing wrong with wanting a* traditional wife *or wanting a gang-banging, skydiving, stripteasing midget. *I think the trick is to clearly know what you want, to be honest with yourself about what you want, to be honest with your prospective mate about what you're looking for, and to figure these things out before putting a ring on someone's finger.*


This is how me & my husband approached our future....we are both older fashioned & traditionally minded...he knew I wanted to be "barefoot & pregnant" (this does not assault my senses)... I feel it has served us & our family very well these last 23 yrs.....we have more time for each other and more time for our children... we do not live 1st class, but those things were never important to us. 

Our family is bigger than the average....we orginally planned on just 3...but I told him I'd want to keep going if it was all boys, my hearts desire was a daughter ...so we kept going & doubled that. 

He never faltered on his promise to me, and I kept mine to him -that I would take care of them - I never wasted his $$ & I never expected him to get up in the middle of the night -EVER (unless I was sick)... I took care of the house, the bottles, the diapers, everything kid related...I was living my dream. 

There are far fewer traditionally minded people left in this world today ....most men want their wives to have a college degree... this ups their value. And many women fear a man leaving them & having no means of supporting herself ~because of the high likelihood of divorce today. 

It's a tough decision for many. We just do what is expected of us today and not follow our dreams, or many do not realize those dreams can change midstream.


----------

