# trying to figure it all out



## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

my husband and i of 4 years have now been seperated for almost 2 months, due to his dishonesty and infedelity,and my enabling him to continuing to do this even after counseling and following all the advice they gave to rebuild trust, communicating,acess to email accounts and passwords, working out budgets together, spending time together, the whole 9 yards. but to no avail, hes still dishonest and up until 2 months ago ive been accepting all that hes done, trying to work things out and hoping it things will get better. he would stop for a few months at a time , then start right back up again. and this last time was the last straw. now his mother has gotten involved. she has told me that communication is the key and that a marriage is give and take. God knows i know these things! and she has told me how he has sacrafised so much for me. i think she talking about leaving his freinds and family and his job. she said he did all this and he feels that i havent always treated him as a husband but has stuck with me. i didnt really get that because when i ask him what im doing wrong and what i need to improve on, he tells me im doing everything right. he has said that he feels that i dont give him as much affection as i used to and that true. i try but its so hard when i know that hes still communicating with these other women.... i think that hes told his mother that our problems stem from finances. hes not from this country and didnt work the first year and a half that we were married because of immigration/ work permit/ social security card etc. but i knew all of this and i took it on , thinking that things were not always going to be that way. i didnt complain. after he started working he quit 3 different jobs. i would help him job hunt and fill out applications. at first he was excited but i think he lost interst when he didnt really find anything that suited him. basically i felt that he was unhappy because he wasnt making the money that he wanted so he turned to these other woman to vent to, and make him feel bettter because they didnt know the "real deal" he could tell them wahtever he wanted and then hear what he wanted to hear to make him feel good about himself. well this would explain the infedelity in the marriage........................... but i also recently found out he was not faithful before we got married. and even got 2 girls pregnant.supposingly both had abortions...i dont know what could be the reasoning behind this one. he was still living in his country, with his friends and family and making the money he wanted. i dont know maybe he has a deeper problem than i think. and advice on this issue?................ now he has referred me/us to a finanical conselor. maybe his mothers idea. i contacted her and explained that we have much deeper issues and that i could not commit to her program at this time. i feel that this might be another one of his tricks to manipulate me so i would take him back. but ive told him that i will not talk with him until he can prove to me he can be honest. thanks to the good advice ive gotten on this forum. so any adcice on my mext steps?


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## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

well mother in law has emailed me again. i do think she is trying to help. but im not sure if shes understanding where im coming from.i asked her to come to this site and read my post and then maybe she will have a better idea of the whole situation. as for my husband. im not sure if hes getting the help he needs.i hope he is. i do know that he has been posting things on facebook, maybe for others to read and wonder why such a good man who seems to care and do so much for his wife being ignored. but they dont know the whole story. i wrote him a letter informing him that he could fool his freinds, even hisfamily, but he cant fool God. and i suggested that he consider that before using Gods name in his posts. i probably made a mistake by contacting him at all. but i was truly disturbed by this. i truly hope that he gets the help he needs. i do care about his well being. sometimes i wish i didnt care so much and could just focus on helping myself. any advice on how do do that?


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## Janie (Apr 10, 2010)

I'm a bit confused. Has your husband cheated on you? You mention infidelity. Are you referencing the communication with other women? He impregnated two other women? While he was with you?

And he can't keep a job? Nothing quite up to his standards?

And is getting his mother involved?

He sounds to me like a Mama's boy - looking for a mother who adores him no matter what he's doing. Probably what he's seeking from in his female friends. He can weave the story to leave him blameless and just a victim - of you. 

He needs to grow up. He can't handle the reality of a person who sees him and his actions and calls him to account. He prefers his interactions to always reflect him as a saint. Until he can handle accountability, he is not ready to be married.


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## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

well i do know that he has talked to women in unappropriate ways( flitatious/sexual) for a married man. i dont know if hes physically cheated since weve been married. but hes told someone that he he got two women pregnant before we were married(while dating). hes not from this country and he has had problems keeping a job in the usa.but thats not the sourse of the problem. the sorce of the problem is his inablity to be open and honest and my enabling him to continue this behavior through out the marriage. weve done counseling but it didnt really help us as a couple. i think because he wasnt totally honest about how he truly felt.we are now seperated.and im trying hard not to be an enabler anymore. i told him that he needs to prove to me that hes ready to be honest and true to our marraige before i will talk with him. before now there has never really been a consequence for his wrong doings other than me not trusting him, and us not beingas close anymore. he of course was upset and i dont feel he truly knows where i was coming from wheni told him i wanted to seperate. he was so used to me trying to patch things up, or turning a blind eye to what was going on.now i believe that he feels that i am refusing to work at the marraige and have given up. but i havent. i feel that this time apart gives us both time to really look at ourselves and the situation and then we can work on the marriage. but like you said maybe hes looking for someone who adores him nomatter what he does.he will not hold himself accountablefor his actions, and continues to point the blame and anyone and everyone other than himself.i truly hope and pray that he gets help that he gets the help he needs.


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## Janie (Apr 10, 2010)

It is good that you're standing strong on this. Put some thought into what you want/need to see from him. You're in a blurry area - looking for change. You want to see something that's measurable, but that's difficult in the trust area. Anyone can be on best behavior for a short time. Don't be suckered back in at the first sign of something positive.

Good luck to you!


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## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

thanks..ive already let him know what i needed to see from him. counseling in the area of his inablity to be honest and open with me, seperation for at least a year, being faithful, honest and open, and i would do the same. and him not trying to contact me or make me feel guilty about the whole seperation thing. im not sure if hes getting counseling or not, or if hes being faithful. i do know that last time we talked he was not being totally honest because he still does not hold himself accountable for his actions. ...he may even think that hes done nothing wrong so there is no need for change. i even tried to contact one of the ow to see if i could get some truth from her.big mistake... she seemed very angry with me,and said that everything was basically my fault. that they were friends and had talked **** for years. and that im weak and dont have a progresive mind. she on the other hand is positive and always has a different way of looking at things.i shouldnt be upset about them possibly sleeping together at any point. i should not be still devestated about a text message he sent her. even if he was still contacting her. the sexting has stopped and hes still with me..so whats my problem. ....welll that so wasnt my point, and i could clearly see that she had clue..and maybe he doesnt either. i dont know?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

nappily~

It's my personal opinion that the OW has is all wrong--100%--and here's why. I don't care if they were best friends who grew up NEXT DOOR to each other since childhood...once a person gets married, their loyalty is to their *spouse* and not to a friend. To consistently choose a so-called "friend" over a spouse, and to use the "friendship" to hurt your spouse and cause harm to your marriage, is NOT true friendship. A true friend would tell their buddy, "Hey man, I'm just a friend. Go work out your life with you spouse!" If a buddy comes to a true friend with issues in their marriage, a true friend would say, "Go work that out with your spouse. You have a commitment to them not to me." A true friend would be OFFENDED at sexting, and if it was a joke the reply would be something like "HAHA not very funny butthead! " not continuing the sexting. And once a true friend found out they were an issue in a buddy's marriage, they would butt out! I mean can you imagine hearing that one of your lady friends whom you've liked for years was getting a little jealous of you and her husband...and going to her and dressing her down for not be "progressive"? HECK NO!! You'd go to her and apologize for hurting her, find out what you did that hurt, and stop doing it! 

So don't be fooled by that double talk, nappily. You are the spouse, not her. He has a commitment to YOU not her. His faithfulness is due to YOU, not her, and faithfulness means "acting in a way so that affection and loyalty are committed and dedicated to a private person to whom loyalty is due; not adhering to promises (vows)." Is he acting in a way so that his affection is dedicated to YOU? Is he acting in a way so that his loyalty is to YOU? Is he adhering to his vows? If not, then all the yakkity yak from this "other woman/friend" is malarchy and justification why they will not give up their affair. Period.


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## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

thanks affairecare for your advice. i agree with you 100%. but you know what. this woman (for lack of a better word) does not know me, has never met me, and is only going by what my husband has told her about me. so i put most of the blame on him. not to say shes innocent. she is no doubt irrational and bias and very disrespectful, and is probably a little jealous and angry with me for whatever reason.but im not even mad at her. she means nothing to me. i have a commitment to my husband and he has one to me. thats been my whole point throughout this whole thing. but he just doesnt get it. or maybe he just doesnt want to get it. he wants to do what he wants to do period.


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## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

so what's my next step. my husband has made no attempt to see a marriage conselor (as far as i know). he still tries to call, but has backed off a bit because i refuse to answer the phone. ive been told that he seems to be having fun by his facebook posts though. (thats the only semi contact we have.i blocked him from my page but we have some of the same friends) one day hes talking about how much he misses me. then the next hes posting about a party and how much fun hes having. the only conclusion i can come up with is that he has no intention of changing,(because in his mind hes doing nothing wrong, and any wrong doings that he happens to actually admit to are justified in some way. and basically, he wants me to just accept it and move on. ....ok no can do!it doesnt seem that hes going to change no more than im going to accept him not changing.so are we fighting a losing battle? when is it time to say, all bets are off?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

nappilymarried said:


> so what's my next step. my husband has made no attempt to see a marriage counselor (as far as i know). he still tries to call, but has backed off a bit because i refuse to answer the phone. ive been told that he seems to be having fun by his facebook posts though. (thats the only semi contact we have.i blocked him from my page but we have some of the same friends) one day hes talking about how much he misses me. then the next hes posting about a party and how much fun hes having. the only conclusion i can come up with is that he has no intention of changing, because in his mind hes doing nothing wrong, and any wrong doings that he happens to actually admit to are justified in some way. and basically, he wants me to just accept it and move on. ....ok no can do!it doesnt seem that hes going to change no more than im going to accept him not changing.so are we fighting a losing battle? when is it time to say, all bets are off?


Well nappily different people can tolerate different things for different lengths of time. However, I would say two things: 1) disentangle from his absolutely as much as you can and 2) during this time work on you by taking a course in assertiveness, by going to a support group or by working on a program that will help you and your marriage...like the 40 Day Love Dare program as an example. 

Your hubby will not change or admit that he has an issue or problem until it hurts more to DENY it than it does to admit it. Right now, all he has to do is deny it and he basically gets away "scott free" so it doesn't hurt him--but I believe he also thinks you are there just waiting for him and he's trying to "wait it out" to see if you'll relent. So honestly, it may be that you have to patiently wait for a while until he fully comprehends that you MEAN IT and will not relent. Further, he is probably doing all the partying etc. just as a way of covering and avoiding facing himself. So just bear in mind what looks like him having a good time is likely a way of covering up. 


Soooooo...as a guideline, I would suggest something like 6 months to a year. I know that sounds like forever, but in real life when you married in your 20's the vow was "until death" and this day and age that's often near 80--so you vowed for 60 years or more...and 1 year being apart and waiting for him to get himself together is just .016666667th of your vow! That seems worth it! During that one year, disentangle from him as much as you can--and yep that includes YOU becoming less involved in keeping tabs on him...and you stopping the checking and peeking and looking at his page. YOU concentrate on you and your life and keeping yourself focused on what you need to do for your marriage. Take advantage of the time to work on YOU. Become a better woman and take this time to learn how to become a better wife. Go to counseling for your own personal issues--go to a self-esteem support group--etc. 

Okay? So what will you be doing FOR YOU?


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## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

Ok . I'll read the book, and look for a support group. I can see that helping. Thanks


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## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

Affairecare.......
I joined a support group to deal my my own emotional issues, besides just the marriage issues. I enjoy talking with people with simular isses. That really seems to help. And I also got the book, The Love Dare, and have been reading. Isnt this something that we are suppose to be doing together? If so, how can we do that if we are seperated? I can probably pull of the first 8 days or so, but the following days seems to be really involved and require more communication. Am I suppose to break my rule of "no contact" in order to complete these dares?


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## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

I did get a progress report from my husband's counselor. I feel like she gave him very good advice.She pretty much said all the same things that our counselor said when we went to conseling together 2 years ago. There was only one distinct difference. My husband said that he does not have enough trust in the relationship to voice his concerns. That may be true to a certain extent. But im not convenced thats its the core of the problem. I just hope and pray that hes taking the conseling seriously and not just going through the motions..


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> My husband said that he does not have enough trust in the relationship to voice his concerns. That may be true to a certain extent. But im not convenced thats its the core of the problem.


I do not believe so either. I beleive, from what I know of your situation, that he plays people against each other. He is using the fact that he is 'afraid' of you to do what he wants to do, and is trying to play his counselor so that she will not see through him

Of course, we all know how fearfully SCARY you are, how abusive and evil and all that - no WONDER he is such a scared little boy that he can't come to you to talk about his infidelity!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

As always Tanelorn has hit the nail on the head! Now granted you don't seem scary to me...but that's because I'm a less than 5 ft. 50 year old woman. :rofl:


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## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

Hi Tan....I know you were just joking, but all jokes aside...but im sitting here crying because I get this email from Evans counselor.And from reading it, I can tell that he hasnt been totally honest with her either. She obviously knows nothing about the infedelity. i asked her and evan to come read my posts. She seem to think that we are playing the blame game. i can kinda see where she may think that. althought i do know that i contributed to the breakdown of our marriage, ive explianed to her in detail my frustration. but she doesnt know just how long ive held all that in and said nothing. she doesnt know all the things we have been through to actually save the marriage. but have failed. and that i am currently working to save the marriage. i wrote her back and im now waiting on her response.


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## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

Oh by the way I'm 4 feet 11 and 104 pounds. Always been softspoken,and shy. Im not sure why hes scared either.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

All joking aside, that is Hooey and you know it. He's trying to say that he's afraid as a way to avoid having to be honest. But a) you are physically not intimidating and b) you are not emotionally, mentally or verbally abusive. Nah, he's just using that as his excuse to continue in dishonestly and it has worked in the past (probably with his OW) so he's trying it with the counselor--see if he can get her to "bite" on the "Well nappily is unreasonable so I'm fearful" hook. 

My gut intuition is that she's not gonna bite!


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## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

well my husbands counselor sent me a second email and i think she may be biting.maybe because she only knows what hes told her. plus i have expressd my recent frustrations to her, with him not being honest. i did not hold back like i usually do, trying to spare my husbands feelings. so now she feels that we are playing the blame game and exagerating what has really happened. she wanted to know in detail what ive done to try to save the marriage. i wrote her back and told her.i also asked her to come to this website and read my posts. ill let you know if she responds. i prayed to God last night to lead me/us in the right direction. i know that he will answer my prayers.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

nappilymarried said:


> Affairecare.......
> ... And I also got the book, *The Love Dare*, and have been reading. Isnt this something that we are suppose to be doing together? If so, how can we do that if we are seperated? I can probably pull of the first 8 days or so, but the following days seems to be really involved and require more communication. Am I suppose to break my rule of "no contact" in order to complete these dares?


Actually The Love Dare is a book that you would do FOR your spouse, TO your spouse but it's like a gift you give them expecting nothing in return. In your specific case, you have set a clear, understandable boundary with your husband that you will only have an honest, transparent spouse in your life and that he's free to demonstrate honesty to you or not...but that until he has demonstrated transparent, honest, open living for six months or a year (I forget which) that you no longer want to be involved in the lying and will not communicate with him. 

Thus the rule (if you will) is not "you can never talk to your husband again" but rather that you won't allow yourself to become involved in his games or attempts to get you back involved with him and his lies. He can show you with his actions that he's working on himself, actually doing the homework, and actually BE honest with you (and his counselor)! Until then, you would work the Love Dare adapting it as best as you can to fit the situation. 

So let's look at Love Dare Day #9 together: 

_Day 9: Love makes good impressions. Greet one another with a kiss of love. —1 Peter 5:14 TODAY’S DARE: Think of a specific way you’d like to greet your spouse today. Do it with a smile and with enthusiasm. Then determine to change your greeting to reflect your love for them._

The spirit of this dare is about when your spouse first walks in the door--some people greet their spouse with a nag or complaint rather than expressing their love and seeming to be happy to see them. In your instance, nappily, one of the things we've been working on with you is expressing a POSITIVE thing about your hubby, right? So although you don't "greet" him (since you're not talking much and he is in another country) I would suggest to do this dare, once a day at least, write one positive thing he did and say it out loud so you hear yourself say it. Begin to see the positive qualities he has and begin to associate those good things with him. Say them out loud and hey do two or three if you can! LOOK for those things that are endearing. 

Make sense?


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## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

Thanks. It does make sense.


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## nappilymarried (Jun 25, 2008)

All the answers i'm looking for are found in Christ.


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