# Older men abusing young women



## AliceA

Some things I've been reading have made me think of some experiences I had as a young woman. My daughter will grow up one day, and I'm thinking I may have to prepare her for these things in some way, though that's still a fair way off. Or only really 7 or so years away, and time flies.

Two separate incidents stand out as bad experiences, both as a young woman who worked in a job (checkout operator) where people often looked down on me:

1) Putting through groceries for a man, woman and their child, both parents looked early 40s. Didn't place the groceries in the trolley how the man liked, he yelled at me something like, "do you want me to put all this back, DO YOU!?" sort of stuff. I was stunned, clammed up, looked at his wife thinking she would be embarrassed to be with him but she was looking at me with this smug smile that turned my stomach. He continued the abuse for a while, I just continued the sale and they left.

2) Again as a checkout girl, older man, again looked in his 40s, started complaining about something he'd bought there another day that didn't include batteries. I asked if he wanted me to get a supervisor, he said no, put his stuff to purchase up and put his jumper over a book on the counter. I put the stuff through, he paid, I missed the book at first and asked if he wanted to buy that, he started ranting at me, threatening me, asked if I wanted to lose my job. I was older this time and sick of being treated like crap and told him "I don't care". I could see on his face a sick pleasure in abusing me, in trying to make me scared. It was revolting.

So, as a young woman, I had a few bad experiences with older men, not sure why I had been a target, not sure what I could've done differently other than punch them in the nose.

How is my gentle little girl going to handle abuse like that in the big wide world? One day she'll have to enter the workforce and I worry these predators are going to do this crap to her.


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## 3Xnocharm

It isnt necessarily "older" men, the public in general is full of a$$holes. That is just reality. THAT is what you should prepare her for. Women pull this same kind of sh!t. My 17year old daughter is discovering this, she has a manager at her job who she cannot stand, and I told her the truth...no matter what job you have, there is always AT LEAST one jerk that you are going to have to deal with. Its part of life, so she needs to get her coping skills in place, and learn how to deal.


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## frusdil

It's not just older men that can be nasty - I've seen plenty of women behave that way too...

As parents, the best thing you and your wife can do is model the right behaviour for her, so she learns from you what is acceptable and what isn't.

Unfortunately, no matter what you do she will encounter nasty people in life, that's just the way it is. It's your job to teach her how to deal with it, not to always shield her from it. You won't always be around to protect her so she needs to learn skills from you, on how to manage people like this so she can do it on her own.


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## AliceA

I've encountered nasty people of both sexes and all ages, it's just that the worst I've found, from my own experience, was that particular combination. It wouldn't have surprised me at all to learn that they were the sort of men who would physically abuse someone weaker and younger than them. 

I know there'll be older women as well out there who will take advantage of a naïve kid, it's just *that* particular predator which I worry about, mostly because I was so useless at dealing with it, I really don't know if I'll raise my kids to be able to deal with it. It may be that my kids won't be vulnerable to it like I was; I hope not. I felt like I had a target on my head.

For some reason, I've never had any problems dealing with younger males or females of any age, regardless of whatever crap they tried.


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## NextTimeAround

You may also want to consider your employer's track record on how they treat its customers. 

Sorry, but when I have had to deal with broken promises, shoddy treatment, late delivery, refund payments that I had to follow up on and so on....... I m ready to jump on the first person who answers the phone because I want to let them know that I mean business and lines like "we don't have managers in this organisation" or "I am the manager" or the "the manager is in another building, I don't know his/ her phone number and I can't transfer you"........ after all that you should get the picture.......

If you want to keep your job, look and see how other people deal with this. If you go on to career /professional message boards, you will find from time to time people admitting that they simply hang up on customers, sometimes even managers admit to that......

but if you want to keep your integrity, well, in this economy you may want to think long and hard about it.........


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## Anonymous07

frusdil said:


> As parents, the best thing you and your wife can do is model the right behaviour for her, so she learns from you what is acceptable and what isn't.


:iagree: Children learn by example, so you can show her what is acceptable and what isn't.

The best thing you can do for your daughter is to help raise her to be a confident adult who knows when to speak up. She needs to know how to follow her gut. If something feels wrong, then it's most likely isn't right. She is going to come across all kinds of mean, rude people, but how she responds is what sets her apart. 

I work in retail and get all kinds of crazy customers who are incredibly rude, disrespectful, and outright mean. A man came in the other day and started yelling at another employee. I pulled him aside and just let him vent his frustration, let him get it all out. I "agreed" with him, letting him know I understood why he is upset, then went on to help fix the problem. He left apologizing and never came in like that again. 

I use psychology "tactics" to help calm people down, which is something I have learned over time. It's not something to take personally when a customer comes in pissed off. I know I'm not the problem, as he was the one who had the issue. 



NextTimeAround said:


> You may also want to consider your employer's track record on how they treat its customers.
> 
> Sorry, but when I have had to deal with broken promises, shoddy treatment, late delivery, refund payments that I had to follow up on and so on....... I m ready to jump on the first person who answers the phone because I want to let them know that I mean business and lines like "we don't have managers in this organisation" or "I am the manager" or the "the manager is in another building, I don't know his/ her phone number and I can't transfer you"........ after all that you should get the picture.......
> 
> If you want to keep your job, look and see how other people deal with this. If you go on to career /professional message boards, you will find from time to time people admitting that they simply hang up on customers, sometimes even managers admit to that......
> 
> but if you want to keep your integrity, well, in this economy you may want to think long and hard about it.........


I'm sorry, but that is messed up. Just because certain employees are rude and don't do their jobs well, doesn't mean you should attack every employee you come across.


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## DvlsAdvc8

NextTimeAround said:


> You may also want to consider your employer's track record on how they treat its customers.
> 
> Sorry, but when I have had to deal with broken promises, shoddy treatment, late delivery, refund payments that I had to follow up on and so on....... I m ready to jump on the first person who answers the phone because I want to let them know that I mean business and lines like "we don't have managers in this organisation" or "I am the manager" or the "the manager is in another building, I don't know his/ her phone number and I can't transfer you"........ after all that you should get the picture.......
> 
> If you want to keep your job, look and see how other people deal with this. If you go on to career /professional message boards, you will find from time to time people admitting that they simply hang up on customers, sometimes even managers admit to that......
> 
> but if you want to keep your integrity, well, in this economy you may want to think long and hard about it.........


I have a problem with this. If you're so pissed about the service somewhere, take your money somewhere else rather than taking your frustration out on some employee who may have had nothing to do with your problem. I bet they really want to help you after you chew them out right? Most are just regular people trying to earn a paycheck. They generally didn't personally take a sh*t on your lawn.


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## AliceA

Thanks for the responses. I've been thinking about how I can implement things differently raising my own kids, as opposed to how I was raised, which was great, but I was sort of left to figure things out for myself a little too much. Parents were too busy working to share pearls of wisdom about life.

As for customer service, well, I no longer have to work as a checkout operator, haven't for a very long time, but I'll tell you one thing; if I'm in line at a store and I hear someone abusing a checkout operator, especially one who is still basically a kid, they will KNOW about it from ME. That's MY integrity at play. Probably a good thing we don't shop at the same stores NTA.


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## Thor

When she is getting ready to look for a job, give her the book "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty". It has several outstanding techniques for dealing with verbally abusive people. The book teaches how to recognize what the person is doing and how to disarm them easily.

One problem for teens, girls especially, is we teach our kids to be polite and to respect their elders. Then some adult does something improper. It could be any kind of transgression which is not acceptable. But our polite thoughtful teen girls have been programmed to not assert themselves and to not hold the other person accountable for being rude (or worse).

Really, the book would be an excellent aid for her.


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## NextTimeAround

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I have a problem with this. If you're so pissed about the service somewhere, take your money somewhere else rather than taking your frustration out on some employee who may have had nothing to do with your problem. I bet they really want to help you after you chew them out right? Most are just regular people trying to earn a paycheck. They generally didn't personally take a sh*t on your lawn.


I have paid my money. Either I get the service that was promised or I get a refund. and to achieve either of those can take a lot of effort.

ETA: I'm not letting some big a$$ multinational take my money without giving me what they promised. 

In the past I have had problems with Dell Computers. I don't buy Dell computers any more. I have had problems with Barclays bank for my mortgage....sorry but this is not a good time to my remortgage my property. I have paid for a subscription to Conde Nast and now they are f*cking me around.... sorry, but don't ask for the money if you are not going to perform the service........ If the employee dones't like working for a crooked company or crooked manager, then they can leave..... after they give me my refund.


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## Jellybeans

3Xnocharm said:


> It isnt necessarily "older" men, the public in general is full of a$$holes. That is just reality.
> 
> I told her the truth...no matter what job you have, there is always AT LEAST one jerk that you are going to have to deal with.


OMG. Yes!!!!!!!!!!! Both of these things are so true.

And sadly...

_Didn't place the groceries in the trolley how the man liked, he yelled at me something like, "do you want me to put all this back, DO YOU!?" sort of stuff_

I was with a guy JUST like this before. Sooo glad I dumped that fool. Nobody deserves to be spoken to in that manner.


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## thunderstruck

3Xnocharm said:


> It isnt necessarily "older" men, the public in general is full of a$$holes.


Truth. I worked as a waiter for most of my college years. Some miserable F**Ks see a service person, and take it as a green light to treat them poorly.

Word of advice, don't treat your server poorly until after you've received your food. I never messed with anyone's food, but I saw it happen...a lot.


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## DvlsAdvc8

NextTimeAround said:


> I have paid my money. Either I get the service that was promised or I get a refund. and to achieve either of those can take a lot of effort.


What I'm saying is the employee probably didn't screw you. You're one customer out of maybe millions served who had a problem. That doesn't make a company crooked.

As for employees not working for poor companies - if someone had a better option they'd have taken it. You're chewing someone out for taking the best job they could find because something bad happened to your order. Your money isn't holy and your spending it doesn't entitle you to be an @sshole to someone who probably didn't do jack to you. Sh*t happens.


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## NextTimeAround

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> What I'm saying is the employee probably didn't screw you. You're one customer out of maybe millions served who had a problem. That doesn't make a company crooked.
> 
> As for employees not working for poor companies - if someone had a better option they'd have taken it. You're chewing someone out for taking the best job they could find because something bad happened to your order. Your money isn't holy and your spending it doesn't entitle you to be an @sshole to someone who probably didn't do jack to you. Sh*t happens.


I think most people will agree that companies do a lot of things just to trip you up so that you will pay more than you intended or so that you will get tired of asking for what is entitled to you.

Just read the consumer columns and you will find many companies - through their employees, of course, since a company is not human and cannot answer a phone or write an e-mail --who cheat their customers until the issue has been escalated, quite often when it hits the papers and then something is done about it.

I am sorry if an employee is not trained properly to handle the phone call or the issue. But that is not my problem.

For an example, a few years ago my mortgage provider sent me a letter claiming that I missed a mortgage payment. There was adequate money in my account so insufficient funds was not the issue. *The whole phalanx of customer service people talked me as if I was lying about the amount of money in my account.* I asked to speak to a manager. I was refused that request. One employee of Barclays told me that if I just send them a check, everything would be ok. AND THAT WAS A LIE.

I had to contact the parent company ombudsman by taking the time and money to send a snail mail letter by recorded post. And even then I had to call several times reminding them of the turn around time that they promise on their web site..... were they hoping that I would just forget?..... as it turns out, they told me that because I had asked to change payment from one account to another IN THE SAME BANK, the IT system did not know how to interpret (it only understood changing accounts while changing banks at the same time) and for this reason...... despite all that IT knowledge those multinationals had access, I was the one who took the hit......

My attitude still stands, if you find that your employer's customers are angry all the time, too angry for you to deal with, then find a new job.

I had a lot on the line, I had my home on the line, I had my credit reputation on the line, I was planning a dinner for 500 people at the time because that is my line of work (and I have to make those customers happy) ...... if some customer service agent is looking for a promotion by suppressing all problems that his phone line picks up.... well too bad, they've picked the wrong customer to f*ck around with ..........


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## DvlsAdvc8

Jellybeans said:


> OMG. Yes!!!!!!!!!!! Both of these things are so true.
> 
> And sadly...
> 
> _Didn't place the groceries in the trolley how the man liked, he yelled at me something like, "do you want me to put all this back, DO YOU!?" sort of stuff_
> 
> I was with a guy JUST like this before. Sooo glad I dumped that fool. Nobody deserves to be spoken to in that manner.


I have met some older men who seem to act like every young female is incompetent, and frankly its disgusting. One was a client of mine. We were having lunch and he was such an @ss to the waitress. He spoke to her like she was 5 the entire time. And sh*t hit the proverbial fan after his order was wrong and she forgot to bring him mustard or something after he asked. You could tell she was just shocked by his obnoxiousness. I can't stand people like this - more than just treating women like children, but people who act like they never make mistakes and have no empathy whatsoever. They bitter people, seemingly always angry, and terrible to be around.

Going our separate ways after our lunch, I took the girl aside to apologize for his being a D and gave her a fat tip just for how she kept her composure. She kept apologizing for the mistake - the kitchen sometimes screws up special requests and if another server takes the tray out, they sometimes forget to double check it against the ticket. She just outright forgot the mustard. Understandable considering she was flying around during their peak lunch rush.


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## thunderstruck

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I have met some older men who seem to act like every young female is incompetent, and frankly its disgusting. One was a client of mine. We were having lunch and he was such an @ss to the waitress.


Trust me, it's not just young female servers who get treated like that. A waiter at the restaurant I worked at was over 6' and built like a linebacker, and I'd see little guys talking down to him, loudly...b/c they figured he had to take it. 

He'd make sure to give them a little something extra before bringing their food out.


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## JustHer

breeze said:


> Thanks for the responses. I've been thinking about how I can implement things differently raising my own kids, as opposed to how I was raised, which was great, but I was sort of left to figure things out for myself a little too much. Parents were too busy working to share pearls of wisdom about life.



I can relate to this. I don't remember having conversations with my parents either.

What I did, and am doing, with my kids is talk - a lot. They actually experience nasty people in grade school, maybe even kindergarten. They come to me when things come up, or if they have questions, and we discuss them. Even my older kids still call me when they encounter something they don't get and want my take on it. But I share my experiences with them too. If I have something happen to me that I think I can use as a learning tool for them, I tell them about it and we talk.

In my experience, my girls have been much easier to talk to. They flop on my bed in the evenings and talk for hours, about everything. My boys, I have to initiate it more, and keep it short.


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## Fozzy

nexttimearound said:


> i am sorry if an employee is not trained properly to handle my abusive behavior. But that is not my problem.


ftfy


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## NextTimeAround

Fozzy said:


> ftfy


My behavior is not abusive. It is firm and it is assertive. And if it's about losing one's home, you would want your family member to ensure that it is resolved.


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## Fozzy

NextTimeAround said:


> My behavior is not abusive. It is firm and it is assertive. And if it's about losing one's home, you would want your family member to ensure that it is resolved.


The thread was about dealing with abusive customers. The behavior pointed out by the OP definitely IS abusive. You appeared to be defending that kind of behavior.

Of course people are going to get angry about service, and often justifiably so. You can be angry and calm at the same time. Yelling at a cashier just makes you look like a maniac.


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## Blondilocks

Have her memorize this: "Shall I call my supervisor over, sir/ma'am?". They get paid to take/resolve that crap.


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## NextTimeAround

Blondilocks said:


> Have her memorize this: "Shall I call my supervisor over, sir/ma'am?". They get paid to take/resolve that crap.


that would be great if she worked for an organisation where the supervisor or the manager or better still, the VP, wants to get involved. Sadly, that's not the way most businesses work. 

Believe me, I have asked to speak to the manager many times.

Most companies use their front line employees as nothing more human waves.


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## imtamnew

I saw a comment on waiters. Now I can be a total douche bag but never ever will I be anything less than the best with people who handle my food outside my line of sight.


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## Blondilocks

im_tam said:


> I saw a comment on waiters. Now I can be a total douche bag but never ever will I be anything less than the best with people who handle my food outside my line of sight.


That's because you have your own self-interest at heart. Smart man.

Makes me wonder why so many cheating spouses trust the betrayed to cook their meals. Really?:scratchhead:


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## Anonymous07

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> What I'm saying is the employee probably didn't screw you. You're one customer out of maybe millions served who had a problem. That doesn't make a company crooked.
> 
> As for employees not working for poor companies - if someone had a better option they'd have taken it. You're chewing someone out for taking the best job they could find because something bad happened to your order. Your money isn't holy and your spending it doesn't entitle you to be an @sshole to someone who probably didn't do jack to you. Sh*t happens.


I work in retail, not because I want to or love it, but because it works for the hours I need. I stay home with my son during the day and work evenings opposite my husband's schedule, so our son doesn't have to be in daycare. If I could get a different job where I didn't have to deal with customer service, I would jump on it. 

I hate dealing with the public many times, as we get a lot of people who are having a bad day and then take it out on the employees who work at the store. One of my employees walked away crying after a man yelled at her for something she didn't do(she is only a cashier). She was new and I had to pull her aside to talk to her about it, trying to help her realize that the angry customer is the one who has problems, not her. I don't care what the problem is, there is no reason to be mean to any employee. There are much better ways to handle issues in a calm, caring way. 

I always tell those I supervise to just do their job well. If someone is having issues, let them talk it out and make them feel heard. If there is still a problem, come get me and I'll handle it. I want the employees to feel empowered, that they can handle situations and most of the time, they do great. 



NextTimeAround said:


> that would be great if she worked for an organisation where the supervisor or the manager or better still, the VP, wants to get involved. Sadly, that's not the way most businesses work.
> 
> Believe me, I have asked to speak to the manager many times.
> 
> Most companies use their front line employees as nothing more human waves.


Do you think the managers, or any employees for that matter, want to deal with upset customers all day? 

It gets old and it gets old fast. I deal with nasty customers every time I work and I am not the one who caused the issue, so why take it out on me? 

Also, do you think the way you are acting helps resolve any issues? Honestly, you're just making it worse for yourself. If you were kind and respectful, they would be much more apt to help you fix the problem. When you are rude, condescending, etc., people don't care about you.


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## NextTimeAround

Hopefully, none of you work for a company like this. Even the people who move on to other providers are getting shafted:

Scottish Power accused of holding on to customers' cash | Money | The Guardian


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## NextTimeAround

Anonymous07 said:


> Do you think the managers, or any employees for that matter, want to deal with upset customers all day? When companies make huge mistakes, I can only believe that the answer is "yes."
> 
> See this story: RBS boss says sorry for decades of penny-pinching on IT | Business | theguardian.com
> 
> It gets old and it gets old fast. I deal with nasty customers every time I work and I am not the one who caused the issue, so why take it out on me? In my experience, it seems that frontline employees are trained / encouraged to not deal with issues...... because they and the customer may just go away on their own. The customer service agent who told me "just send us another check and everything will be ok" should have been fired. If I had followed her instructions, the bank would have made the same mistake 2 months / payments in a row and would have started possession proceedings with me. So what's more important, that I be nice to a stranger who is knowingly fobbing me off or that I rightfully stay in my own home.
> 
> Also, do you think the way you are acting helps resolve any issues? Yes. I have not lost my home. I still have a good credit record.......Honestly, you're just making it worse for yourself. How so? If you were kind and respectful, they would be much more apt to help you fix the problem. That is the way that I start out. When that tone does not work, I let them know that I am serious. When you are rude, condescending, etc., people don't care about you. Many of those people didn't care about me before I even made the phone call. they are there for the paycheck.


And if I am SOOO nasty, why does the damned bank keep mo on as a customer 10 years on...... because I pay my mortagage every month and on time. Maybe the money to them is more important than my saying, yeah, that's ok, I don't know why that payment did not go through. I don't care if you don't investigate or if you treat me like a liar.... just don't do it again and have a good day, I mean a really good day........


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## Convection

To address the original question, read here a bit:

Not Always Right

The whole website deals with employee stories of dealing with customers, from the bizarre to outright rude. Just as many of the antagonists are women as men.

Old or young, man or woman - none of that matters. Some people are just jerks, especially when they get into a position where they feel they have power over someone.


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## NextTimeAround

I should also add that the bank gave me £50 after unwinding the problem; did not charge interest or a penalty and the woman in the higher level customer service told me to call her on her direct line if I had any more problems.

Sometimes, please and thank you are not enough.


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## Fozzy

NextTimeAround said:


> I should also add that the bank gave me £50 after unwinding the problem; did not charge interest or a penalty and the woman in the higher level customer service told me to call her on her direct line if I had any more problems.
> 
> Sometimes, please and thank you are not enough.


I'd agree with this. Repo'ing a house might call for a stronger approach.

But people getting their rocks off screaming at a grocery bagger for putting the bread on bottom?

Perspective.


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## AliceA

NTA, I can see much of what you're trying to say is that the customer is entitled to get angry because of some sort of mistake or error etc. What I was pointing out were situations where the aggressor had no real basis for abusing anyone, they were TRYING to find reasons in order to get some sick satisfaction from abusing someone. If you'll note the 2nd example in particular, the man had no cause for the abuse, he was deliberately looking for a reason to abuse someone, and the look of enjoyment on his face was extremely obvious.

The difference between a customer with a legitimate grievance who needs a resolution and a customer who is looking for a way to get their jollies through abusing another person is quite obvious.


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## DvlsAdvc8

I don't see that lashing out gets you anywhere, nor do I perceive the preponderance of sh*tty companies you seem to NTA. You're angry and you talk about it like intentional mistreatment is just wildly rampant, but you defend your aggression with only the most severe of cases. Sh*t happens. Customers sometimes get the shaft. Companies sometimes get the shaft. I have a side business, and just as a business may fail to hold up its end of the deal, so too do customers - missing payments, late payments, or complaints about work they specifically approved. Human beings are fallible, and some may take advantage, but everyone isn't out to get you - in fact, most aren't out to get you. Outrage doesn't get you anywhere. When I'm not paid by a customer who received my services, should I call them up and chew them out?? This is nonsense to me.

There's no need for belligerent behavior. You calmly and rationally go through whatever process there is to obtain relief; if you're dissatisfied with that process, you choose a new provider. If you can obtain no relief, you pursue legal action. This is the ordinary course of business.

Your anger didn't resolve your home issue, your persistence did. Given your dissatisfaction with their processes, I'm sure you'll choose another bank/lender/whatever in the future.

All the vitriol only shortens your lifespan and reduces your quality of life.


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## ScarletBegonias

Dealing with the general public these days is probably one of the most depressing aggravating tasks EVER. Everyone has such an air of entitlement while being totally oblivious to the world around them.
They want what they want and you better give it to them like yesterday or they'll treat you like dirt and expect you to take it.

Countless times I've watched the receptionists smile and treat customers so kind and sweet only to have people take all the anger about their pathetic little lives out on them. It makes me want to puke the way people handle their emotions. 

OP,the only thing you can do is teach your daughter that for every good,reasonable person she comes across she'll come across about 10 nasty unreasonable jerks with unrealistic expectations. She'll know who they are immediately by the stench of entitlement that radiates from them at all times. These are also the same folks who have zero sense of personal responsibility.


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## NextTimeAround

Breeze, there may also be courses to help your daughter diffuse anger and manage situations that are wholly uncalled for. If there in't one specialised for customer management, then an assertiveness training course might be worthwhile. Sometimes a community center or junior college offers these course.


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## NextTimeAround

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> nor do I perceive the preponderance of sh*tty companies you seem to NTA. So the legions of consumer columns in various UK and US publications that outline problems and /or respond to specific issues from a reader is just pure fiction. I see.
> 
> You're angry and you talk about it like intentional mistreatment is just wildly rampant. It does exist. This why there are consumer protection agencies. In the UK, it's called the Financial Ombudsmen. but you defend your aggression with only the most severe of cases. Would you rather that I defend for the least severe cases.
> 
> Sh*t happens. Customers sometimes get the shaft. Companies sometimes get the shaft. I have a side business, and just as a business may fail to hold up its end of the deal, so too do customers - missing payments, late payments, or complaints about work they specifically approved. I've worked for myself as well, and have had to chase invoices. Human beings are fallible, and some may take advantage, but everyone isn't out to get you - in fact, most aren't out to get you. But I do my best to ensure that NO One does. Sometimes it doesn't always work that way. As I once had a client who broke a contract.
> 
> Outrage doesn't get you anywhere. When I'm not paid by a customer who received my services, should I call them up and chew them out?? This is nonsense to me. I've been in your shoes and in general, all I can say, is you have to take a view to the specific situation and the future prospects.
> 
> There's no need for belligerent behavior. You calmly and rationally go through whatever process there is to obtain relief; if you're dissatisfied with that process, you choose a new provider. If you can obtain no relief, you pursue legal action.That is expensive and I do my best to avoid that. Take people to court too often and you could be seen as frivolous and a terrible negotiator. As I understand as well, some industries start blacklisting consumers on the bases of court actions. There are pros and cons to every avenue. This is the ordinary course of business. In your view.
> 
> Your anger didn't resolve your home issue, your persistence did. In any case, my anger did not rain upon me eternal damnation which is what you and another poster here are assured is what happened to me. Given your dissatisfaction with their processes, I'm sure you'll choose another bank/lender/whatever in the future. The issue is resolved now and there is no guarantee that another mortgage provider is any better. In any case, I am not working right now, so I know no mortgage provider is going to offer me a new mortgage. One needs to learn how to manage situations rather than running away from them.
> 
> All the vitriol only shortens your lifespan and reduces your quality of life. I still have my home. That's a better quality of life than living on the streets.


^^^^^


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## DvlsAdvc8

"Legions of consumer columns". Fiction? No. Rare relative to most company's overall consumer base, yes.

My point isn't whether it exists. My point is that you exaggerate it... seemingly seeing malpractice all over the place.

"This is the ordinary course of business. -'in your view'". No, not in my view. Legally, this is the final route if you've suffered damages and a company will not respond to your claim. Nowhere is it stated, "make sure you gave the company hell and chewed out an innocent employee first". Do you really think anyone cares that you're angry if they were out to get you in the first place, as you seem to claim? Do you see how this doesn't make sense? Does it make sense to spew vile at the person appointed to handle the problem?

"One needs to learn how to manage situations rather than running away from them. I still have my home. That's a better quality of life than living on the streets. "

Nobody said run away from such situations. I'm advising that one have some self-control and handle such matters in a mature way that doesn't abuse a customer service rep who didn't sh*t on your lawn. Its childish to think that throwing an angry tantrum is the right way to get what you want.

Again, it was persistence the got you the outcome you sought, not your anger.


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## NextTimeAround

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> "Legions of consumer columns". Fiction? No. Rare relative to most company's overall consumer base, yes.
> 
> My point isn't whether it exists. My point is that you exaggerate it... seemingly seeing malpractice all over the place.
> 
> "This is the ordinary course of business. -'in your view'". No, not in my view. Legally, this is the final route if you've suffered damages and a company will not respond to your claim. Nowhere is it stated, "make sure you gave the company hell and chewed out an innocent employee first". Do you really think anyone cares that you're angry if they were out to get you in the first place, as you seem to claim? Do you see how this doesn't make sense? Does it make sense to spew vile at the person appointed to handle the problem?
> 
> "One needs to learn how to manage situations rather than running away from them. I still have my home. That's a better quality of life than living on the streets. "
> 
> Nobody said run away from such situations. I'm advising that one have some self-control and handle such matters in a mature way that doesn't abuse a customer service rep who didn't sh*t on your lawn. Its childish to think that throwing an angry tantrum is the right way to get what you want.
> 
> Again, it was persistence the got you the outcome you sought, not your anger.


Oh, dear. You've come back again.

I'm not exaggerating anything. Anyone managing a household knows that they to keep on top of things. That link about utilities in the UK shows that many households overpay to the utilities and they do not give that money back until you ask for it. And as that article demonstrates, some utility companies make you ask more than once and require increasing pressure each time.

Persistence is necessary at times. But most entities do not behave unless a third party is watching. 

YEs, there has been a case of a company dumping me....... 6 months after I had asked to be released from the contract and they tried to charge me for another year. When I had asked nicely, they effectively said screw you. when I started sending e-mails to about the 5 or 6 people I had communicated with.... a 10 to 20 an hour, someone finally called and said that they would reverse the charges for the next year and refund me for a a quarter of the current contract.... since they had not fullfilled that part of it. that was exactly what I wanted and when I asked for it nicely I didn't get it. when I took mygloves off, I did. 

nd yu talk about lloking for lawyers and taking someone to small claims court. there have been stories of companies being fined in small claims court and still not fulfilling the penalties. In fact, there is a story about someone winning in small claims court and still having to hire a collection agency to go into a bank branch to take a computer or two for collateral. Great story, but really who wants to go those lengths, more than once or even at all.

My attitude still stands. If you work for a company whose policies -- official and unofficial -- create unhappy customers, then you need to make decision on your own as to whether you want to continue working there.

From what I have read, consumer complaints kill the company e-machines in the late 90s and decreased the share price of Dell declined in the early 2000s due to costumer dissatisfaction. 

I know, I know, you are going to say, if I get bad service all the time, that I must be a bad person to begin with.

If that is what you think, then your vehemence about treating people kindly who make mistakes..... no matter how serious they are...... might suggest that you make a few too many yourself. (just pre empting here)


ETA: Just had to add, at the end of the day the management / shareholders / CEO only care that the customer pays on time and in full. Even thy don't give a d*mn about the frontline employees. IF they did, they would pay them a living wage and not gleefully blame their poor service on their high employee turnover rates.


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## DvlsAdvc8

NextTimeAround said:


> Oh, dear. You've come back again.


lol, uh... so have you? :scratchhead:

Your posts reek of bitterness. You must be the most burned person alive. It couldn't be that your negative perspective is driven by your negative attitude right? No, its the rest of the world... they're all out to get you. People should quit their jobs because you're not happy with the performance of the company they work for. The world is all about you and your needs after all.

btw, shareholders etc only care about return on their investments. They don't get good returns from a company that pisses off all of its customers and drives them to competitors. Such is the nature of a free market. Now, if you're really cheap and chose a company who skimps on service to provide that cheap rate, well, you get what you pay for.

I sense many more angry customer issues in your future. Carry on.


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