# How to Deal With Multiple EAs?



## Gunthar (Sep 2, 2012)

Hi All,

Looking for guidance on how to handle my wife's ongoing EAs?

I posted my situation in the Ladies Lounge so if you are interested in the details look there.

Brief summary:

--Marriage of 8 years tanked in summer
--Wife puts all on blame on me (I know it is 50/50 but that is not how she views it). Note: NO cheating by myself or my wife (physically). Basically it was the classic drifting apart due to family as well as my over the top mr. niceguy attitude which caused her to be attracted to the alpha male type......wandering eyes....and thoughts....see below.
--I have started counseling, reading the many books mentioned here and am in a much better place)

Fast forward to now:
--I am working on myself (no more mr. nice guy, etc.), exercise, feeling pretty good.
--Marriage ok.....no fights in a while, I am trying to build our relationship by working on various items.....being active by focusing on what we need to do to have a better future together.

--Now the kicker: My wife is not really trying...sure she is not as sarcastic or evil to me.....then again I am not allowing that behavior anymore so I shut it down......but:

Thru snooping I found out my wife is having a EA with 2 guys. She thinks about them daily and spends much more time thinking about them than thinking/working on our marriage.

Now I am at peace enough with myself to feel good about not confronting her (I know 2 schools of thought here). I want her to make the decision about them or the new/better me. I feel if I force her hand then that could be problematic on many sides. If she decides to take it to PA then great....she ended it...all her fault.....marriage over. If she ends the EA/PA then wonderful.....we should be able to move forward together.

The EAs: I am having a hard time dealing with the knowledge of the EAs, Her daily worries are interacting with them via text (to her they are just friends and says nothing is going on) and worrying about her looks (she has begun working out and is always talking about/working on her looks). I know it is more than just friends due to her DAILY computer searches looking up sexual attraction, flirting, younger men/older women relationships (one EA is 20 years younger), alpha male attraction (I am classic beta and am working on being more balanced). I also know she is highly attracted to them as she talks about it with her friends via text......her EA talk does go into our marriage as well.....crossing the line IMHO.

Any guidance on how I should deal with these EAs internally or how I should deal with my wife when any of these EAs are brought up? If I can deal with this in a better way then I feel my daily routines would be much easier to manage (I think about them a bit too much as you can see). I would also love to see her put some of this EA effort into our marriage.....but of course cannot force her to which is why I am working on myself hoping she sees me in a better light.

Thanks for looking!!!!


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Well, until you finally realize that EAs are cheating, and act upon that reality, then nothing will change. She has to end them all, or you have to end them for her. That is the choice you must face in order to recover your marriage.

My WS had multiple EAs. Still does as near as I can tell. We are separated at this time, and I have filed for D. While he admits that what he did (and is still doing) is wrong, he has yet to come out of the fog and see that there is no room in a marriage with other people.

Your WS is confiding in these people. She is sharing her life with them. She is doing the sort of research that indicates her intent of changing these EA to PAs. She is not into the marriage, and is only using you for the familiarity and comfort that it bring her life. You have to "rattle the cage" to get her to wake up and smell the reality.

If you are willing to "settle" for things as they are, then do nothing. She will eventually have her PA and, if the OM is worthy, will leave you. However, on the other hand, if your intention is to try to save the marriage, then you have to act. Now. Expose the EAs. Insist she stop. Send no contact letters. Keylog the computer and put spyware on the computer. Stop these EAs now. Otherwise it will get worse.


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## Helios (Jul 7, 2011)

Sounds like you're already getting started on the 180, keep up with that. Collect a circumstantial amount of evidence by using keyloggers, cell phone bills, VARs ect. If she doesn't start turning around during your 180 and you feel the need to expose than drop all the evidence on her and expose her to everyone, friends and family. However don't let her know how you obtained the evidence regardless of what she says.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Gunthar, waiting for her to make a decision about whether or not she ends or continues the EAs (possible PAs?) on her own is not a good choice. A real man would never let his wife carry on a relationship with another man. Put a stop to that now.

You seem like a nice, thoughtful man, which she isn't attracted to. Well, now it's time to get tough with her. Demand that the EAs stop. Do it calmly, yet in a firm and confident way. Tell her you're serious about divorce if she doesn't stop. You might not realize it, but she will be more attracted to you and respect you much more by taking this stand. In fact she's already been very clear in her preference for alpha. So why would you let her carry on with other guys? Allowing other men into your marriage is weak. 

Before you take your stand make sure you have all the evidence. Also don't assume she hasn't been physical with the predators. I know you don't want to think that, but don't rule it out. Confronting too soon is a common mistake. If you don't have airtight evidence she'll gaslight you, make you appear crazy, etc.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to quickly read Married Man Sex Life and get working on the MAP plan. That will increase your sex rank and make her take more notice of you. 

btw - the book isn't a sex book, it's just got a bad title!!

Also find out all about the other guys and especially if they have wifes/gf - and be prepared to explode things though exposure if they take it to the next level and start sexting/caming/meeting up.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Gunthar, familiarize yourself with what's called the "fog." There's info here on the forum. That's what your wife is in right now and that's why you can't "nice" her out of this. Each time she's in contact with these guys she gets a chemical rush of dopamine. It's the same thing drug addicts experience. It's the feel-good chemical that gets released every time she gets a notification of a new text, or a new email from her partners, or anytime she's in contact with them. Don't underestimate the power of dopamine.

You're simply in the way of this fantasy world she's constructing with her alpha-boys. That's why she treats you with contempt. And being a nice guy just magnifies her contempt for you.


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## GotMeWonderingNow (May 31, 2012)

Gunthar; time to take a stand buddy! Especially if you have been working on yourself. Nothing says you cannot keep working on yourself, just do it whilst making your stand. Don't allow this to continue!


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## Gunthar (Sep 2, 2012)

Helios said:


> Sounds like you're already getting started on the 180, keep up with that. Collect a circumstantial amount of evidence by using keyloggers, cell phone bills, VARs ect. If she doesn't start turning around during your 180 and you feel the need to expose than drop all the evidence on her and expose her to everyone, friends and family. However don't let her know how you obtained the evidence regardless of what she says.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Helios, that was exactly my plan......wait for a while and see if she decides on me or keep up with EA or go PA.....if no change or PA in future then drop bomb......which would be huge as one is married with kids and the other, while single, is in a key position in a school/sports.

Evidence of EAs: Not airtight. Text messages are telling but not so graphic that it is obvious. Also, internet searches tells me she is dreaming of things beyond our marriage (that she could flip around and say they were about me.....not one of her searches was on husband but on men, married men, young men (I am older than her), etc.). So unfortunately not airtight yet which is why I figured to wait it out a bit more.

It is also interesting many replies say I should call her out now. I read a few posts of people warning of doing this because my wife may say ok...but go deep underground and continue to seek out EAs more secretively. It then may be months or years until you find out again. I want her to decide without me pressuring her to decide. That way I will know where her heart is. If I force her maybe she is not ready to decide or want cake and eat it too for which she will lie about her true feelings.....and the marriage continues for who knows how long in agony.

What also gives me some hope is while she is in the EAs, she is also being more nice and caring to me than in many years. I attribute this to my not being the mr. niceguy, taking a stand, not catering to her every need and more focusing on myself. She has made many comments asking what I am doing or why am I doing that, talking to me more and initiating first.....her curiosity has been triggered. 

Maybe Cubby has a point and she is wondering where I now stand on the sex rank thing......maybe I am moving up a notch or two....need to keep it going (as you can see I do want to make it work but time seems to be against me).

Wrong way to think? Someone please slap some reality into me if needed.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Wait.

In the meantime, prepare your finance and asset. Dont have joint bank accounts, credit cards, loans, etc. Insulate your monies.

Keep copies of all your evidence. Have a copy offsite. And make sure she doesnt find the ones you have at home.


If it went PA or when it's time to move on, you are more than prepared and will not come across as beta.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think that reading the recommended books, doing a 180, and gathering evidence is all advisable.

From a female perspective, though, I would say that you shouldn't wait her out. I think you should vocally man up - tell her you know what's happening, you won't tolerate it in your marriage, either she's an honorable wife, or not. It's her decision (always is, isn't it?). If she can't be a wife that you can respect, then you need to know it & you will respond accordingly. Then go 180 and stay outwardly very strong.

It's almost embarrassing to admit, but women really do like men to be strong, self-assured, to the point, even if it makes their lives more difficult.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

At a certain point you'll need to fire a general warning shot across her bow. Try something like: I'm not okay with sharing my wife with someone else. Or, I'm not okay with my wife pursuing another man.

Maybe others may have better phrasing?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Gunthar said:


> My wife is not really trying
> Thru snooping I found out my wife is having a EA with 2 guys. She thinks about them daily and spends much more time thinking about them than thinking/working on our marriage.


I'm sure you know it, but the reason she ISN'T trying is because those guys are meeting her Emotional Needs now, and she no longer needs you to do it.

And it will continue unless you put your foot down and fight the affairs. "Either stop contacting other men or I'm separating/divorcing."

There _is_ no other choice.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Gunthar said:


> I want her to decide without me pressuring her to decide.


And what makes you think she would suddenly just wake up and say 'oh, Gunthar's so sexy and strong, those other guys are trash' on her own?

Do you what women want most? A strong man. Who respects himself and will NOT play second fiddle. She WANTS him to fight for her, to say no more, to say you belong to me.

The longer you sit back and wait the angrier she gets with you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

aug said:


> At a certain point you'll need to fire a general warning shot across her bow. Try something like: I'm not okay with sharing my wife with someone else. Or, I'm not okay with my wife pursuing another man.
> 
> Maybe others may have better phrasing?


"I know you're having emotional affairs with at least two men and I won't stay married to someone who will do that. If you won't give them up, I will make plans to separate."


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Gunthar said:


> It is also interesting many replies say I should call her out now. I read a few posts of people warning of doing this because my wife may say ok...but go deep underground and continue to seek out EAs more secretively. It then may be months or years until you find out again. I want her to decide without me pressuring her to decide. That way I will know where her heart is. If I force her maybe she is not ready to decide or want cake and eat it too for which she will lie about her true feelings.....and the marriage continues for who knows how long in agony.
> 
> What also gives me some hope is while she is in the EAs, she is also being more nice and caring to me than in many years. I attribute this to my not being the mr. niceguy, taking a stand, not catering to her every need and more focusing on myself. She has made many comments asking what I am doing or why am I doing that, talking to me more and initiating first.....her curiosity has been triggered.
> 
> Maybe Cubby has a point and she is wondering where I now stand on the sex rank thing......maybe I am moving up a notch or two....


You can't let make HER decide whether to continue the EAs, YOU have to decide. And you have to demand that, if she is to remain as your wife she stops communicating with other men! Because if she is getting away with it now, it will continue. I don't care if you're turning into a bodybuilder at the gym, or walking around the house wearing a toolbelt or going hunting on weekends or any other manly activities, she's going to keep getting her feel-good fix from these NEW and EXCITING guys. While you might be improving yourself, it won't be enough to get her to stop as long as you have a weak, limp attitude of letting her cake-eat.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Save your counseling money. She's carrying on affairs and counseling won't help when there's more than two in a marriage.

Use the money you save as a down payment on a retainer for a good divorce lawyer. Sounds like you're going to need it


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Cubby said:


> You can't let make HER decide whether to continue the EAs, YOU have to decide. And you have to demand that, if she is to remain as your wife she stops communicating with other men!


Laying down the law is much easier than you think. You just have to have the self-discipline to do it. No hand-wringing, no waffling, no worrying about unintended consequences. You should accept that her behavior is out of your control now, so you have to control what you do. And you can do that with strength and maturity.

Say, "You're having inappropriate contact with other men. I won't have a marriage like that. It's up to you - either stop what you're doing and be a real wife, or accept that I will walk. "
When she gets angry, starts to sputter, you say, "I've said all I need to say. Ball's in your court."

And mean it. Walk away and stay strong. Let her deal with the new you. No matter what happens, you can live with yourself.


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## Gunthar (Sep 2, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Laying down the law is much easier than you think.
> Say, "You're having inappropriate contact with other men. I won't have a marriage like that. It's up to you - either stop what you're doing and be a real wife, or accept that I will walk. "
> When she gets angry, starts to sputter, you say, "I've said all I need to say. Ball's in your court."
> 
> And mean it. Walk away and stay strong. Let her deal with the new you. No matter what happens, you can live with yourself.


Wow...that is fantastic advice.....all of you!

I guess my biggest problem is that I am not 100% sure it is a full blown EA....yes she talks with them....yes, she does talk about personal stuff, yes, she has the hots for the other men and she definitely wonders if they are attracted to her as well (I know for certain via her internet searches). I am not sure if they have the same feelings for her as all I have seen so far is texting and only a couple of meetings (most with me present). My biggest worry is her "dreaming" of these fellows and if they are hot for her too (for which if they do then I am certain things will get worse).

Well, I guess even so she is having unhealthy feelings for other men.........I should not let her decide on them or me so I should force her hand. Understand that with dopamine fueling these interactions she is not rationale so something must be done. Well, wish me luck. Next time I catch her interacting inappropriately I will confront.....no beta male....lay it down. I will let you know how it turns out...thanks again :smthumbup:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Also remember that your marriage may well survive a temporary separation during which she goes and does what she THINKS she needs to do (try on new men). Assuming you'd still want her back, that may allow her time to go through her drug withdrawal and get her senses back.


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## Gunthar (Sep 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Also remember that your marriage may well survive a temporary separation during which she goes and does what she THINKS she needs to do (try on new men). Assuming you'd still want her back, that may allow her time to go through her drug withdrawal and get her senses back.


Well....back in my old beta male days I would have probably wanted her back......now I feel perfectly comfortable in saying "you're outta here",......game over.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You have to decide how you will or won't live. Will you live on tenterhooks every day, wondering if she's in a 'full-blown EA' or not? Will it be OK to have doubt gnawing at you 24/7 in your married life? No reasonable spouse should want a loved one to live like that.

If she doesn't care that that is what she's doing to you, she's not treating you with respect. You should not agree to that. You should insist on respect for yourself; if she won't give it, you take it for yourself. Don't wait to see whether she'll offer you the 'gift' of her regard. It's not a gift; it's what's right and proper in a healthy marriage. Don't lower yourself to take less.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

I like Alte Dame's suggestion. 
I might add that you ask her to prepare "get lost" notes to both men that you want to see before bedtime. If none are forthcoming then you will prepare one that's addressed to her.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

From your other thread:


Gunthar said:


> *she 3 times married*.....according to her abusive marriage last one and one before that husband emotionally cut her off (and then got caught cheating).



She has been divorced 3 times, she knows the process well. You threatening to leave her shouldn't faze her at all. 

I believe she knows what she's doing.

Start protecting your assets now. Get her off your insurance, credit cards, bank accounts. Do not have joint debts with her. Write a new will without her in it.


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## GotMeWonderingNow (May 31, 2012)

Gunthar said:


> It is also interesting many replies say I should call her out now.


I didn't re-read this thread but my recollection from last night when I looked at it was that you sounded pretty convinced that these EAs are continuing. Now you are saying the evidence you have is not air-tight. Is that just a delaying tactic (mentally) on your part, or now you really are not sure they are happening?

OK: I caught up... seems to me like they are based on your description. You also seem to be reading and doing the right things. The MAP definitely works mate! You just need to back it up with that ultimatum. Despite the advice you get here it's your choice when/how you do that, but I can say that the advice here is generally good (even if it is very confronting at times).


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

3 time loser !!! Dude, before you confront her, separate your finances !!!

You only have her word on why the others bombed. They could have bombed from the same thing she is putting you thru.

If you pull up your phone records online you should be able to see how much they are in contact. But before you confront, separate the money, close CCs and any other accounts you share.
Try to do all this in one day, then you have the talk.

Your wait and see method has never worked. She will stay and have her lil side sex, while keeping you for the comfort and security.
Thats why she is being nicer. You have mentioned, and she " Oh they just friends " you. Now you are not as nice as before, so she is trying to lull you and keep her lil titilations going.

So remember, this woman know how the D process works, Any move by you that have her thinking you are done with her for real, and she is going to move fast to get at the money.
Do not sleep on this dude. You already see where her thinking is. So she IS going to jump one of their bones sooner or later.
And I can tell you now. She is not going to choose as long as she can spread out there and come home to you

So go back thru the posts, pick the best advice and get your butt in gear.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Gunthar said:


> Wow...that is fantastic advice.....all of you!
> 
> I guess my biggest problem is that I am not 100% sure it is a full blown EA....yes she talks with them....yes, she does talk about personal stuff, yes, she has the hots for the other men and she definitely wonders if they are attracted to her as well (I know for certain via her internet searches). I am not sure if they have the same feelings for her as all I have seen so far is texting and only a couple of meetings (most with me present). My biggest worry is her "dreaming" of these fellows and if they are hot for her too (for which if they do then I am certain things will get worse).
> 
> Well, I guess even so she is having unhealthy feelings for other men.........I should not let her decide on them or me so I should force her hand. Understand that with dopamine fueling these interactions she is not rationale so something must be done. Well, wish me luck. Next time I catch her interacting inappropriately I will confront.....no beta male....lay it down. I will let you know how it turns out...thanks again :smthumbup:


It does not matter if the other men are returning her advances or if other men want her like she wants them. THESE ARE ESs.
Possibly one sided, but EAs none the less. 

Your wife wants other men and you are wondering if it could be serious. I can not believe you are really thinking that. You are in denial. Keep it up and she will be gone with no hope of her coming back. Or is that what you truly want? Are you looking for a reason to end the marriage so you don't look like the bad guy?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It boggles the mind that someone would date someone who's been divorced 3 times.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How much money have you given her access to?


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## Gunthar (Sep 2, 2012)

Tough love people....thanks......

For clarification she married 3 times (me included). Divorced twice.

Yep...call me dense...my first wife died and I was coming off a emotional rollercoaster while raising 2 young boys on my own. My current wife came into my life and then.......you know.

On the EAs: In my mind it is not airtight as I do not see any evidence of advancing on the guys part.....is one sided EAs not full blown EAs? Is our marriage still salvageable? For that reason I may be softening a bit on the seriousness of the EAs.......maybe I am wrong to think this.

I guess I am in denial as I am hoping we can salvage this marriage. I feel like I am making great strides. I also know my wife is in the "fog". While she says she wants to make our marriage work and she loves me, I am not sure how sincere it is as her actions are more neutral than proactive.

I guess calling her out on these EAs and giving her the ultimatum will maybe answer things sooner vs. later. I forsee a rocky weekend ahead. 

Thanks everyone again for the advice


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She needs Marriage counseling. Beware of individual counseling unless you talk to the counselor. Many here find ICs to just rubber stamp what the patient "nneds" and "wants".

You need to read "Married Man Sex Life" as fast as you can. It can even be downloaded at amazon.

Quote:

Re: wife and best friend having (at least) an EA 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*I'm only about 25% of the way through the Married Man Sex Life Primer, but I think it is a MUST READ for every man who is in or ever wants to be in a long term relationship. Talk about a mis-titled book!

The chapter on balancing alpha/beta characteristics alone is worth the price of admission. Thanks for being so insistent, chapparal. Based on the title alone I didn't want to buy/read the book, but it is fantastic so far.

BFF *


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The bottom line is that she should be putting the energy she puts into conversing with these guys INTO HER MARRIAGE. It is time wasted away from YOU. And THAT is what has to stop. Tell her she needs to, at the very least, go to MC with you. You need an impartial person to tell her that it's inappropriate.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Gunthar said:


> Tough love people....thanks......
> 
> For clarification she married 3 times (me included). Divorced twice.
> 
> ...


You are not married to the OM. Your W is the one who should be solely devoted to you and you alone. Therefore it doesn't matter whether the OM is seeking a relationship with your W. What does matter is that your W is seeking a relationship with OM. Your marriage can be saved if you call it all out into the open and demand that she sever ties completely with the OM and focus on your marriage. It does take BOTH of you to make it work. She needs to acknowledge what she has done, stop it, and show remorse for the hurt and betrayal she has caused you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I suggest you run out this morning and get the book Not Just Friends and read it asap. Then read parts of it out loud to your wife this weekend. It explains why what she is doing IS cheating.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Why do husbands let their wives do this? Why does he need keyloggers, VARs, to do a 180, etc? Just tell her to knock this crap off!


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Okay you say you are working on not being beta. WEll guess what you are doing exactly that your abeing super beta right now. You fail to recognize that your wife is cheat yet you felt the need to get on a infidelity support site to get advice. You continually take the passive aggressive route and instead of making a concentrated effort end this you choose not in get involved. EA's are EA's are EA's one sided or not if your wife is overly emotionally Attached that means it is an EA. Your marriage is salvageable you just have to stand up for it. You have to set boundaries. It sounds like her friends are toxic to your marriage as they are not putting her in her place with the flirting and are probably encouraging this. What's that saying "birds of a feather flock together."
You are poised to blow this EA right up. You have evidence of inappropriate conversations between them, and you are sitting idly by allowing this to continue. You want tough love here it is. GET UP and GO GET YOUR WIFE. You are in a position soo many BS wish they had been. You can stop this now. Before she really breaks your heart and bangs someone else. At least if she leaves you you won't have to go through with the real hurt of a PA. 
Step up, man up, and handle your business. You wanna be alpha choose to be alpha right now. Stop waiting for her and be proactive. Print out the text convos or hell just walk over and take her phone from her. SAy I know all about them and if you want me you tell them both , and all your friends that are playing around and supporting this behavior. That you will not contact them any more. That is what I want in a wife. If you can't do that the door is right there. Set your boundaries hard, set them now, and stop going the passive aggressive route 180 is nothing without you putting any teeth behind it. 
Good luck my friend.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

When you talk to her about this, do not reveal your source(s). If you do, she'll work around it (them) and you'll have a harder time tracking her in the future.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Drover said:


> Why do husbands let their wives do this? Why does he need keyloggers, VARs, to do a 180, etc? Just tell her to knock this crap off!


Because cheaters usually lie.

"Okay honey, I'll stop." 

And the next time he leaves the house, she is at it again. The use of those devises is for the truth. If she does indeed stop, then there will be no evidence to the contrary and the BS can feel comfortable that he/she is hearing the truth. On the other hand, if the WS is still cheating, the BS will know.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> Because cheaters usually lie.
> 
> "Okay honey, I'll stop."
> 
> And the next time he leaves the house, she is at it again. The use of those devises is for the truth. If she does indeed stop, then there will be no evidence to the contrary and the BS can feel comfortable that he/she is hearing the truth. On the other hand, if the WS is still cheating, the BS will know.


I guess I don't feel like I need evidence. I'll know. If she's sneaking off with her phone, I'd know. If she's taking off for a bunch of "alone time" I'd know. I guess I might want to use those to decide if it was a PA or EA, but it's pretty obvious when she;s having an EA.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You deal with this by telling her it's either her affairs or your marriage.

Non-negotiable.

Her daily contact with them means she is not committed to you. 

Also, it's a bad sign if she is unwilling to take any of the blame.


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