# Revenge Ideas Anyone??



## Prudence222 (Jun 25, 2014)

I am going away for a long weekend to celebrate 28 years of marriage. This trip was planned before I recently found out hub is having an EA which is intense and multiple times daily text, talk, snype. Gonna hold on a little longer for more evidence before confrontation. I need ideas how to mess with his mind. He does not know I know but I think he suspects I might know some. He is acting like an innocent husband, very civil while texting her in front of me and calling her from our bed all thinking he is hiding. Please help, nothing is out of bounds and up for consideration at this point.

Thanks
Black Widow


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

How can he be thinking he is hiding if he is calling her while in bed?

Nobody here is going to advocate revenge.

Work on what you want for you and your family. Reconciliation with him or divorce. Best and only revenge is to live the rest of your life happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RealAffairHelp (Aug 20, 2014)

Revenge is temporary, rarely satisfying.

Do you want to be a part of this marriage? 28 years and the both of you are acting like kids, it seems.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Put her on cheaterville.com and send her the google link. If she's married, send the link to her husband too. If she is on facebook send her friends the link.

If you are divorcing him, you can do the same to him.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Revenge will not help you...... You need to decide whether you want to stay married to him or not, If you do then confront him..... You have been married 28 years, a little to long to play games.

How can he be calling her from your bed??..... Surely he would know you know if hes doing this?


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

The best revenge would be to grow up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm a huge believer in the value of revenge, on both the wayward and the affair partner. This sometimes makes my opinions very unpopular here, especially with the waywards.

I like using exposure as a revenge tool as well as a tool for ending the affair. I'm inclined to tell you continue gathering the information. Get copies of the texts, emails, photos and call logs and make them "publicly available" or as public as you want. This is especially effective if the texts and photos are on the kinky side. Having all the friends and family know what is actually going on in his dirty head is as embarrassing as all hell. If you have photos, that's just icing on the cake. It's almost like having him on a sex offenders listing. I like the concept of having a web page set up dedicated to his affair, then Google can do the exposure for you.

If his affair partner is married or in a committed relationship, send all this information to her partner ... that should be interesting. Cheaterville is another option for the affair partner and your husband as well.

I wouldn't rule out a revenge affair, but you'd have to decide if that is right for you. It might not be appropriate in your case.

Now before you do this, you need to realize he may want to leave you after this, so if you want to keep the marriage, this type of revenge (or any revenge) might not be right for you. Let's face it, no one likes their nose rubbed in their own feces. However, it's my opinion that revenge goes a long way in making you feel better .... and I don't buy the theory it only buys you temporary satisfaction. I feel you are right, he should pay for his crime.

Edit: Check the legality of what I am suggesting in your state. In some states, it's illegal.


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## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

Prudence222 said:


> I am going away for a long weekend to celebrate 28 years of marriage. This trip was planned before I recently found out hub is having an EA which is intense and multiple times daily text, talk, snype. Gonna hold on a little longer for more evidence before confrontation. I need ideas how to mess with his mind. He does not know I know but I think he suspects I might know some. He is acting like an innocent husband, very civil while texting her in front of me and calling her from our bed all thinking he is hiding. Please help, nothing is out of bounds and up for consideration at this point.
> 
> Thanks
> Black Widow


I can understand your anger, but why do you have to be so nasty about it? 

Just kick him to the kerb and be done with it.

Your signature is apt though, I'll give you that.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

Stand aside and let the consequences fall where they may. Nothing is more deflating than being the victim of your own circumstance all the while watching them self destruct without any intervention or action from you.


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

Revenge doesnt usually work. Usually the person you get revenge on just uses it as a justification for whatever they did to you in the first place; they use it as a social weapon within their own minds and to anyone around who will listen. 

As feelings are how we understand our relationship to our environment, the feelings happening as a result of his affair will make him "right" no matter what you do as revenge. Any negative feelings you make him feel due to revenge will only reinforce his affair.

There are a few exceptions. Exposing the affair as detailed above leverages the social nature of human beings- if one person tells you youre garbage you ignore them, but if many people say youre garbage you listen. It is revenge in one sense since the betrayed spouse generally feels satisfaction in the process, but it is also constructive.

Another revenge is to drop papers and treat him like he's past tense. This introduces shock as a weapon; it reinforces that little voice in his head that says his affair is wrong, and it shows him you demand to be treated with respect (which his affair is not doing). 

But maintain no illusions- there is no action that can hurt the heart of a man (or woman) without a conscience; if he doesnt have one, its time to move on.


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## HeartbrokenW (Sep 26, 2012)

Karma is the best revenge.. let the chips fall where they may.. there's no guilt either....


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

I'm with everyone here about how the best revenge is to move past a cheater and have a great life

...but I did date a woman who had been cheated on (a PA). Her XSO came home drunk one night, and she super glued his penis pointing upwards, so when he got up in the middle of the night his pee went into his face....


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

The whole exposure business (including Cheaterville) is not revenge, but affair-busting. For me those are viable options.

"Messing with his head"? Forget it. His head's too far up his a$$ to reach anyway.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Best revenge is to hit him in his wallet. Nothing hurts worse but on the other hand, to plot revenge is only putting yourself in the gutter with him. Isn't worth you time or energy.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Sounds trolly to me. BS's are normally devastated from reading those texts etc. They would not be immediately seeking revenge...They would usually be "In Shock". Unless of course, some variables exist, like, you moved from an AP position into a 2nd wife one.


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## Prudence222 (Jun 25, 2014)

He goes to bed before me and usually reads or plays games to unwind. Couldn't hear him but checked phone bill and saw the time, etc. I think I am feeling vengeful (which believe it or not is against my nature) is because the evidence I've gathered so far includes them talking **** about me and making fun of me and her husband. He is also a master gaslighter.


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## Prudence222 (Jun 25, 2014)

Believe me, I have been thru about 200 emotions. Have suspected for 6 months and found proof 2 months ago. I feel humiliated some of the time and want him to have a taste.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> I'm a huge believer in the value of revenge, on both the wayward and the affair partner. This sometimes makes my opinions very unpopular here, especially with the waywards.
> 
> I like using exposure as a revenge tool as well as a tool for ending the affair. I'm inclined to tell you continue gathering the information. Get copies of the texts, emails, photos and call logs and make them "publicly available" or as public as you want. This is especially effective if the texts and photos are on the kinky side. Having all the friends and family know what is actually going on in his dirty head is as embarrassing as all hell. If you have photos, that's just icing on the cake. It's almost like having him on a sex offenders listing. I like the concept of having a web page set up dedicated to his affair, then Google can do the exposure for you.
> 
> If his affair partner is married or in a committed relationship, send all this information to her partner ... that should be interesting. Cheaterville is another option for the affair partner and your husband as well.


I tend to agree with this... and I realize that it is unpopular. I guess I kind of have that, "Don't F with me" attitude unless you want to expect repercussions for your actions. People should not expect to be able to inflict any type of pain on another person, and expect nothing to happen to them. After my exH beat me up one night, he was arrested, charged, and convicted. That was his penance. That said, I think in most cases when you venture down the path of revenge, you should expect not to have an amicable relationship going forward. 

But even though I can see why some people need revenge, I also agree with the "living happy is the best revenge" perspective... It's just that sometimes the other type of revenge helps get you through some of the initial anger, which can be overwhelming when someone has done you wrong - more so if they ditch you, I would think.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Too many times I see a person seeking revenge become a victim. Plotting revenge for mind games or physical pain to me would be silly. Instead why don't you gather evidence get a nasty lawyer and hurt him this way. If a fight is brought to me, fight, but I don't actually seek out a fight. I never sought out to physically harm my WW's OM but if I turn the aisle in the grocery store and he's there, well I'll need a new cart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> I'm with everyone here about how the best revenge is to move past a cheater and have a great life
> 
> ...but I did date a woman who had been cheated on (a PA). Her XSO came home drunk one night, and she super glued his penis pointing upwards, so when he got up in the middle of the night his pee went into his face....


I like this idea, for starters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## philglossop (Apr 22, 2013)

TryingToRecover said:


> I like this idea, for starters.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not one I've done, but get a male friend to write H's mobile no on a toilet wall for the 'cottaging' gay men to ring. Add a couple of inches compared to actual size.

Result was spectacular according to my best mate. Numerous texts and random calls during business meetings and cosy night in with affair partner .... Didn't last long both the affair and the marriage..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Just dump him already. What are you waiting for? This is what you do. Take him to his favorite restaurant, order him his favorite meal, when it's time for dessert have the waiter serve him with the divorce papers instead of the item he ordered. Don't say a word otherwise, get up, leave, and stick him with the check and figuring out how to get home. Go 180 immediately, throw his stuff on the lawn before he gets home and never look back.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> Just dump him already. What are you waiting for? This is what you do. Take him to his favorite restaurant, order him his favorite meal, when it's time for dessert have the waiter serve him with the divorce papers instead of the item he ordered. Don't say a word otherwise, get up, leave, and stick him with the check and figuring out how to get home. Go 180 immediately, throw his stuff on the lawn before he gets home and never look back.


You would go to all that trouble after 28 years of marriage, before even confronting your spouse with evidence over an EA?


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Get a picture of him. Get a picture of her. Title his picture "Cheater with a tiny dlck" Title her picture "Cheater with no self esteem". Put them side by side and find a billboard company to make a billboard out of it. Call the local news affiliates about the funny billboard. They love that kind of stuff.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I believe the notion of revenge should be directed at the OM/OW rather the CS; and even then, only strategically. I'll admit that my opinion is influenced by my wife's OM. I haven't read about a worse POS since I've been on this forum.

In regards to the CS, you should think in terms of deserved/needed consequences, rather than revenge.

In your case OP, you should get all the facts *before* you levy those consequences - otherwise they may be too early, too little or too much.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

My suggestion is to lay low in the weeds, like a ninja, until you have undeniable 
proof that he’s doing what you suspect him of doing. If you try to confront before
you have said hard evidence, then it will backfire. 

I would also recommend not wasting your energy on “payback”.
Put your energy towards yourself and how to prepare for the next move
that will make YOU a happier and better person. He’s chosen his path…
and now you must choose yours. Don’t lower yourself to his standards.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Nothing wrong with revenge fantasy it can be cathartic. Actual revenge? well that's a different story. Lots of pitfalls and in the end about as satisfying as the proverbial mouthful of warm spit.
In the end the action you take will have something to do with where you want this to end. Busting the affair is a good option at the EA stage. At any stage you are at least helping the other betrayed spouse. 
I honestly don't see how you can go on a vacation with this much unresolved emotion brewing.
MN


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## mack25 (Apr 6, 2013)

I'm different than most and agree with revenge. It helped me most past it. I would recommend getting proof first. The confront him. Then let him know you are going to go hook up as well. If he is sleeping with her you have every right to do the same. Then after you have your fun, I think you can then start to talk about reconciliation.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

Revenge is a dish best served cold – meaning don’t act in the heat of the moment but rather be tactical and plan to make this so that you can come out of it in the best shape possible. Living well is the best revenge of all.

Figure out if you want to stay or go. If you go, get your attorney, get the affairs in order and then hit the SOB with a well-articulated salvo that leaves him little option but to accede to your terms. 

Revenge? Take care of yourself first.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Prudence222 said:


> I am going away for a long weekend to celebrate 28 years of marriage. This trip was planned before I recently found out hub is having an EA which is intense and multiple times daily text, talk, snype. Gonna hold on a little longer for more evidence before confrontation. I need ideas how to mess with his mind. He does not know I know but I think he suspects I might know some. He is acting like an innocent husband, very civil while texting her in front of me and calling her from our bed all thinking he is hiding. Please help, *nothing is out of bounds and up for consideration at this point.*
> 
> Thanks
> Black Widow






Well my advice may vary depending upon whether you intend to stay married or not if you intend to stay married then I believe revenge in any extreme capacity should be off the table *BUT* if you don't intend to stay in the marriage then my advice would be to start pulling the 180 start going out more with your friends preferably your male friends *how far you take it of course is up to you* and start enjoying your life as a new single woman.



*Just keep in mind *

When someone steals your spouse, there is no better revenge than to let them keep them.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Revenge Ideas Anyone??*



cantthinkstraight said:


> My suggestion is to lay low in the weeds, like a ninja, until you have undeniable
> proof that he’s doing what you suspect him of doing. If you try to confront before
> you have said hard evidence, then it will backfire.
> 
> ...


He said ninja. CTS you cracked me up bro.


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## Doc Proditus (Apr 16, 2014)

Revenge - is it a science, or an art?


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## X-B (Jul 25, 2013)

Be careful because you don't want to have to look over your shoulder for a few months like I did.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

Doc Proditus said:


> Revenge - is it a science, or an art?



It's a dish one best served cold


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Calibre1212 said:


> *Sounds trolly to me*. BS's are normally devastated from reading those texts etc. They would not be immediately seeking revenge...They would usually be "In Shock". Unless of course, some variables exist, like, you moved from an AP position into a 2nd wife one.


No offence intended, but why should anyone care how it "sounds" to you?

There's a report button for a reason. If you suspect a poster is a troll, use the report button.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

I think that you're wasting energey on getting revenge that you could put into fixing your relationship, but here goes.

This is a light, subtle way to let them know that you know, about them.

Don't do anything until you go on vaction with him.

Then, every day, send her(name only, not Husbands name) one, or more post cards from where ever you are vactioning.

Don't write anything on it, but her address. If he's contacting her WHILE you are on vaction, he will be torn. He'll want to know if you have been sending them, but if he asks you before you're home he'd be letting you know that he's been texting/talking to here WHILE you are on vacation.

If you're traveling far away, I'd pay the extra to get the first few sent priority mail.


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## ratrod1971 (Aug 20, 2014)

I know how you must feel as I too had the desire to get revenge so many times. I fantasized about it so much that it to a degree became all consuming. It was both comforting and at the same time torturous. Ultimately my better judgment prevailed and I didn't do anything stupid, I had thought of sending all the pictures, texts and emails to her family, friends and co-workers and their spouses, beating the other guys into a bloody mess, posting her sex videos to the net, etc. In the end I realized I wouldn't actually getting any real long term comfort from it and I instead channeled my energies into getting counseling and becoming a better father and a better man in general. I would suggest that you get the facts that you need for confronting and for your own closure. Implement a plan to move on with your life and start to envision what you want your future to look like. That is assuming you want to move on. If you want to attempt to save the marriage then I'm sure there are many here who will add insight into ending the affair and addressing it and setting forth a reconciliation. I get the feeling that you don't want reconciliation though.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Then I apologize...How long have you known and been keeping it in?


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## Prudence222 (Jun 25, 2014)

I first suspected last Oct when I came home and heard him in the shower and a girls voice say " this is fun, I've never skyped with anyone in the shower. I was in shock and later asked him who it was and he just said a "friend" and it was no big deal. Then more secret calls out of the room and he became very protective of his phone and started charging it on his bedside table where I couldn't see it without him there. 
Finally got password to phonebill, saw frequent #, knew it was someone with initials BT from a few texts I read and looked thru his facebook friends and put it together. It is his X from highschool/college who said at her wedding that she wished it was him (my hub) at the altar instead of her hub which now, big surprise she is very unhappily married to. Still makes me angry and nauseous. 
For the moment I just wanted ideas to make him nervous, guilty, submissive or my ***** for the weekend. I guess revenge was to heavy a word.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Have you thought about exposing the relationship to the other woman's husband, if you haven't already? Does he know?

It's good revenge, and it's the righteous thing to do. Dude has a right to know his wife is stepping out on him...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prudence222 (Jun 25, 2014)

BTW he is also so slimy that I found a file he had made on his e-mail of Match.com women in our area. When I asked him about that he first denied it and said it was spam then said I shouldn't blame him for just "checking whats out there" since our marriage has been rocky.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

He sounds like a real winner. Sorry you are in this situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

The best revenge is clean out any money you share in a joint account, take your evidence and show the other womans husband, then have his bags packed and punt his arse to the kerb.

Getting on with your life after doing the above is the best revenge you could have. At the very least it will show him that you have some self pride and wont tolerate his foul behavour.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Regarding this upcoming weekend, I would try to get a very nice photo of you and your husband and upload it to Facebook if you know that this woman is also on on FB. So at the same time he is b!tching and moaning to his paramour about the weekend, the visual that you upload will suggest something different.

Furhter on, I agree with the others. Get your evidence together and expose to a select group of people ie, her family; her employer. Don't expose to everyone. If it gets around that you have exposed, you can say "who? Little ol' me?"

And lastly, as Ivana Trump says in the first Wives' Club, "Don't get mad. Get everything."

Regarding revenge it's a funny thing. it can be to your benefit. I was recently kicked out of a tennis meetup. I was tired of the organiser pairing me with some one woefully inexperienced. I'm not the best but I pay the same amount as everyone else who attends, and if I am expected to babysit the absolute beginners then I think everyone else should.

the organiser had been asking me to organise a tennis meetup at the courts near my home. So, I did it.... but for another meetup of which she is a member. And now I can say, I have new tennis partner as a result. 

so don't think that just because you are motivated by "bad" intentions, that the results will always necessarily backfire in your face.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Revenge is a double edged sword.
It feels great in the short term and its effect is electric…but it seems that you always cut yourself on the other side of the blade.

I can understand feeling hurt and wanting to hurt him. It’s very understandable.
The very best revenge is to take away his power in the situation.

Right now he thinks he controls everything and probably thinks he is being clever and cake eating too.

What you need to do is to organize yourself and be prepared for your action plan.
Collect information and data until you are certain about things, arrange for separation of assets and protection of your share of things, then expose and file.

Nothing will drive him more nuts than being outplayed and watching you execute the plan without any say from him.
He will go from a position of perceived power to powerless.

Flawless victory for you.
Rude awakening for him.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Just concerned for you because there is a thin line between thinking about it and doing it when you may be keeping this all inside. Would strongly recommend that you speak with a counselor. They may help you with a strategy to cope if you decide to stay or exit with a clear decision. 

But, in the meantime, divert the energy at the vacay by raking up a fantastic bill on yourself, change the room to the presidential suite, get some Versace outfits delivered, perfumes, order orchids for your room, order in mimosas with Dom & caviar, oysters for breakfast...You know, the whole nine yards...PS change the tickets to first class and if you can get a lear jet, go for it baby  Enjoy yourself at his expense, that's all I am saying. Live large on this occasion, you earned it.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

As you further described your husband's actions; I think most here would suggest you already have enough information to be confident he's cheating. Skyping in the shower? Dating sites? Not much doubt in my mind. Probably a PA.

Instead of thinking of revenge you should be deciding if you want to stay married to him. And in large part, that decision should be predicated on his level or remorse and willingness to accept consequences.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

If you are thinking of revenge and not trying to fix your marriage you are obviously not 222 prudent.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Pepper123 said:


> You would go to all that trouble after 28 years of marriage, before even confronting your spouse with evidence over an EA?


Well if she's asking for revenge ideas, I'm assuming she's DONE with the marriage and is positive he was cheating. For some people, cheating is a deal breaker, it definitely was for me. All I was saying was rather than hatching some elaborate scheme for revenge I would just dump him and get it over with.

If I had to do it over again, I would of not said one word to my cheating ex about why I was leaving her. I would of just served her with divorce papers. I wouldn't of confronted, I wouldn't of allowed her to waste my time offering explanations, I wouldn't of given her the time of day. Expose to OMW, 180, go dark, disappear, have a nice life.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Invite her along for the weekend.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

*Re: Re: Revenge Ideas Anyone??*



BetrayedDad said:


> Well if she's asking for revenge ideas, I'm assuming she's DONE with the marriage and is positive he was cheating. For some people, cheating is a deal breaker, it definitely was for me. All I was saying was rather than hatching some elaborate scheme for revenge I would just dump him and get it over with.
> 
> If I had to do it over again, I would of not said one word to my cheating ex about why I was leaving her. I would of just served her with divorce papers. I wouldn't of confronted, I wouldn't of allowed her to waste my time offering explanations, I wouldn't of given her the time of day. Expose to OMW, 180, go dark, disappear, have a nice life.


It would be for me as well, so I completely agree with you... I guess my assumption was that she wanted to R considering they are going to a celebratory vacation together. Perhaps I misunderstood. 

OP: As it relates to your M, what outcome are you hoping for?


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## Suspecting2014 (Jun 11, 2014)

Prudence222 said:


> I first suspected last Oct when I came home and heard him in the shower and a girls voice say " this is fun, I've never skyped with anyone in the shower. I was in shock and later asked him who it was and he just said a "friend" and it was no big deal. Then more secret calls out of the room and he became very protective of his phone and started charging it on his bedside table where I couldn't see it without him there.
> Finally got password to phonebill, saw frequent #, knew it was someone with initials BT from a few texts I read and looked thru his facebook friends and put it together. It is his X from highschool/college who said at her wedding that she wished it was him (my hub) at the altar instead of her hub which now, big surprise she is very unhappily married to. Still makes me angry and nauseous.
> For the moment I just wanted ideas to make him nervous, guilty, submissive or my ***** for the weekend. I guess revenge was to heavy a word.



Check wranglermans thread "alwaywary" for some ideas about exposing.

You should act ASAP!!


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

There's a website were you can buy genital crabs, somewhere. Not sure how you get them to the host.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

act all lovely dovey on vacation have lots of sex after hes done make some snide comments.

wow that was quick you must be getting old.

does guys penises shrink as they age because you don't feel as big as when you were younger not that it matters.

etc,etc start fvcking with his confidence.


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## mack25 (Apr 6, 2013)

Have an online affair


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Prudence222 said:


> I am going away for a long weekend to celebrate 28 years of marriage. This trip was planned before I recently found out hub is having an EA which is intense and multiple times daily text, talk, snype.


Do you know who the OW is? Is she married? Are they aquaintences of yours?

If so, start befriending her. Suggest going out for a girl's night. Make it awkward for her.
Invite them over to dinner, do not let on you know.
Then after it seems the right time during dinner say, "Oh, I almost forgot, I found something interesting you all should get a kick out of" and put the printed correspondence between your H and this OW on the table and just wait for the looks on their faces.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> How can he be thinking he is hiding if he is calling her while in bed?
> 
> Nobody here is going to advocate revenge.


Oh but I will. But its not so much revenge as it is a satisfying way to expose them.

I wouldn't, however, ever advocate revenge such as a RA. Never ever gonna advocate something like that.


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## Anonymousguy1 (Sep 7, 2014)

The thing I'm not understanding (being new to this site - for "supposed" advice and support) is how negative and vile some people treat those who make the mistake of straying... even those who are truly remorseful and looking for a way to reconcile and better their relationships...

I keep reading the term "waywards" like this ugly adjective referring to someone here as if he/she were some disgusting alien. My point is, it's HARD to be transparent and tell people you don't know a situation about your life in the hopes to get support of helpful advice in order to move on. Yes, some people who cheat are vile and have no regrets, but the truth is, MOST who cheat and are on here generally are trying their best to be better husbands/wives. Go easy, no one here has any right to judge or **** on someone because of a mistake he/she made. Coming on here and bashing those who strayed only to get a virtual high five from those who are in your positions only perpetuates negativity. 

The truth is, people who are truly remorseful for cheating (especially if it only happened once) deserve to be heard.. not referred to as "a wayward" like some insignificant object.

As far as OP's "revenge" plot, I agree with some of the comments here: grow up. Either try to make your very long marriage work (I think you owe it to yourselves if he's truly holding himself accountable for his actions), or don't. Separate, find closure and move on. Why fight fire with fire.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

The terms "betrayed spouse" and "wayward spouse" are used to help easily identify the parties involved. 

There are many examples on this site where a cheater (prefer that term vs. Wayward??) has come here, shown true remorse, and has gotten very good support. True remorse, no excuses or justifying their behavior. "Yes I love my wife and I'm sorry I made a mistake but she was only sleeping with me once a week and I need it every day" or "she nags me to clean up after myself I need someone who is nice to me" are excuses (albeit extreme excuses) that we hear frequently. Cheaters will be hammered for this type behavior.

Both parties own all the problems in their marriage but it doesn't justify the mistake a cheater makes.

PS A Mistake is playing an extra round of golf when you were expected home for dinner, or burning a casserole because you were spending too much time on the computer playing video games.

Let's not sugar coat infidelity by calling it a mistake. It is, short of physical or sexual abuse, the most vial and despicable act one spouse can do to another.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

And if we polled a lot of betrayed spouses here, they probably would have rather just taken a beating vs. Getting cheated on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Anonymousguy1 said:


> The thing I'm not understanding (being new to this site - for "supposed" advice and support) is how negative and vile some people treat those who make the mistake of straying... even those who are truly remorseful and looking for a way to reconcile and better their relationships...
> 
> I keep reading the term "waywards" like this ugly adjective referring to someone here as if he/she were some disgusting alien. My point is, it's HARD to be transparent and tell people you don't know a situation about your life in the hopes to get support of helpful advice in order to move on. Yes, some people who cheat are vile and have no regrets, but the truth is, MOST who cheat and are on here generally are trying their best to be better husbands/wives. Go easy, no one here has any right to judge or **** on someone because of a mistake he/she made. Coming on here and bashing those who strayed only to get a virtual high five from those who are in your positions only perpetuates negativity.
> 
> ...


Wayward is not an offensive term. It is a statement of fact.

A wayward act.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> The best revenge would be to grow up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Revenge is a choice that leads to excessive bitterness and angst. 'Messing with someone's head'... You mean to inflict pain on someone on purpose... For what reason? To what extent?

You will be proving that you can be as low as the scum in the pond.

I understand the desire for revenge. I however believe that that road once traveled leads to a path of dismay and destruction. I would not walk it if I were you. The destruction can also be yours.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Prudence222 said:


> I am going away for a long weekend to celebrate 28 years of marriage. This trip was planned before I recently found out hub is having an EA which is intense and multiple times daily text, talk, snype. Gonna hold on a little longer for more evidence before confrontation. I need ideas how to mess with his mind. He does not know I know but I think he suspects I might know some. He is acting like an innocent husband, very civil while texting her in front of me and calling her from our bed all thinking he is hiding. Please help, nothing is out of bounds and up for consideration at this point.
> 
> Thanks
> Black Widow


What a sad situation.

If I were to extract revenge (and I don't recommend it, but since you asked...) I'd be cheerful about it:

You:_ Honey, guess what?_

Him: _What?_

You: _I have proof you've been betraying me with XXXXX._

Him: [denial, blame shifting...]

You: [excited] _So I'm going to divorce you and staart a new life far better than this one!!_

Stand up and walk out, acting happy as a lark.


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## Anonymousguy1 (Sep 7, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Wayward is not an offensive term. It is a statement of fact.
> 
> A wayward act.


By neglecting to address them as an individual or by their username, it becomes pretty ****ty... whether he/she cheated or not. People don't lose their value because of something they've done. We aren't defined as individuals by all our actions.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Anonymousguy1 said:


> By neglecting to address them as an individual or by their username, it becomes pretty ****ty... whether he/she cheated or not. People don't lose their value because of something they've done. We aren't defined as individuals by all our actions.



That's a matter of opinion. You have yours and others have a different one. I believe a person's behavior does define them ... especially when it comes to infidelity. I don't view (or value) a wayward (or the so called former wayward) spouse the same way I do a loyal spouse.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Anonymousguy1 said:


> By neglecting to address them as an individual or by their username, it becomes pretty ****ty... whether he/she cheated or not. People don't lose their value because of something they've done. We aren't defined as individuals by all our actions.


Huh? I'll say that people do lose value when they do bad things. If actions don't define someone, what is the purpose?

I'm left handed. I'm male. I'm faithful. Those things define me, and I accept them. 

That's how responsibility works.

Your deal, as you describe it, I don't think that qualifies you for the "wayward" handle. You exchange a few smooches with some gal. You're a cad, maybe, but you caught yourself and played it straight. That's pretty standup.

People that forsake their marriage, and screw around in secret? They're wayward. Let 'em live with it.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

_Former_ wayward some.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> And if we polled a lot of betrayed spouses here, they probably would have rather just taken a beating vs. Getting cheated on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Getting cheated on was the most tramatic experience I've ever felt worse than death and definitely worse than being beated on.

It's someone you put trust in, and they know this and use it to hurt you, over and over and over again. It's not to be looked upon lightly.


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## squareone (Aug 29, 2014)

Anonymousguy1 said:


> People don't lose their value because of something they've done. We aren't defined as individuals by all our actions.


:rofl:
Yes, come on people! 
What about all the GOOD things Hitler did?


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Great. New we're compared to Hitler. How insane. Having sex compared to killing unknown numbers of people in a must horrific way, yet having sex with someone outside the marriage is comparable.

Yes we messed up royally but for God's sake, really???

This is where some of you lose me. FFS
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## X-B (Jul 25, 2013)

Anonymousguy1 said:


> By neglecting to address them as an individual or by their username, it becomes pretty ****ty... whether he/she cheated or not. People don't lose their value because of something they've done. We aren't defined as individuals by all our actions.


Yes a person is defined by their actions. Yes people do lose their value for things they have done


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> Great. New we're compared to Hitler. How insane. Having sex compared to killing unknown numbers of people in a must horrific way, yet having sex with someone outside the marriage is comparable.
> 
> Yes we messed up royally but for God's sake, really???
> 
> ...


Please don't personalize it. .... this is the way many BSs deal with their turmoil. But it is the reason I am afraid to ask a question of other WS for something that I am struggling with. It is tough to be a WS on TAM unless you follow the accepted script. But it really does keep WS from being straightforward about our inner turmoil.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Don't personalize it?

How are we not to personalize it when we get to be punching bags for all the walking wounded? How is it that I log in to try to help people cope with the pain of betrayal and see thread after thread questioning remorse, how to get revenge, was it thrilling, etc.

Yet, we're not supposed to personalize it. How is that? Oh, because that's their pain. That's right. So in their pain and agony, the wayward and former wayward spouses here are supposed to blow it off.

Funny. A wayward can't even begin to talk about issues in the marriage that predate the affair because we're told we're rewriting the martial history or blame shifting.

Sorry, but I'm not going to not personalize someone comparing an affair to the freaking Holocaust. That is preposterous, ridiculous and just plain simple minded.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

It was just someone's way a pointing out (in an exaggerated way) that actions do speak alot about a person. No one is literally comparing you to Hitler, or an affair to the Holocaust. That's you exaggerating in the same fashion, and is also preposterous, etc.


Hyperbole spins both ways.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> Don't personalize it?
> 
> How are we not to personalize it when we get to be punching bags for all the walking wounded? How is it that I log in to try to help people cope with the pain of betrayal and see that after thread questioning remorse, how to get revenge, was it thrilling, etc.
> 
> ...


Everything you say is true. Please note that I am a struggling WS. I suggested not personalizing it because they don't really know us or the turmoil that WS face in trying to forge a future with our spouses. I really wish this site had a corner for WSs where we could speak openly and honestly without everyone else coming in and getting rattled and starting to bash us like we are all demons.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Forest said:


> It was just someone's way a pointing out (in an exaggerated way) that actions do speak alot about a person. No one is literally comparing you to Hitler, or an affair to the Holocaust. That's you exaggerating in the same fashion, and is also preposterous, etc.
> 
> 
> Hyperbole spins both ways.


But the analogy was disingenuous and rude, and meant to be hurtful. All participants on TAM deserve basic courtesy and respect, not just the BS. Having a balance of both BS and WS helps make TAM useful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

I guess a good start would be not to come on coping with infidelity and complaining how poorly you are treated. People in pain due to their wandering spouses DECISIONS might not be ready to cut you some slack over offence of a term like wayward or wandering.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Forest said:


> It was just someone's way a pointing out (in an exaggerated way) that actions do speak alot about a person. No one is literally comparing you to Hitler, or an affair to the Holocaust. That's you exaggerating in the same fashion, and is also preposterous, etc.
> 
> 
> Hyperbole spins both ways.


:iagree:

It's taking it to the ridiculous extreme to make the point that actions can and do define a person.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> I wouldn't rule out a revenge affair, but you'd have to decide if that is right for you. It might not be appropriate in your case.


A revenge affair???

A revenge affair for an EA would be pretty drastic overkill, don't you think?

It would also give the husband the moral high ground as well. Unless you mean she should have an EA to make up for his EA, but I don't think he would care about that very much.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Maybe if the "cheating spouse" were more concerned with what lifelong damage they were doing with their "MISTAKE" to the "faithful spouse" than they were with what term was used to identify them *based on their actions*, we all wouldn't have to be here.

(btw, if you're attempting R as a WS who did something unfaithful for more than a single moment in time, don't call it a mistake. It's insulting and hurtful to minimize it that way).

To the OP, Shakespeare said it: "Revenge, they name be sweet..." but all his characters seemed to face ongoing issues as a result of the ongoing battles caused by taking revenge. 

But it doesn't seem yu're seeking "revenge" as much as maybe creative ways to let him know that you know, excruciatingly slowly revealing such. I wonder if the TAM crew might have ideas about that, instead... I do like the postcards from vacation idea. You could tell him you just placed a legitimate bet -- for an enormous amount of his money -- that he'd never cheat on you, and were counting on him proving it to win that money. You could take him to a ballgame and have it set up in advance for for the scoreboard to "mistakenly" welcome "Mr. Prudence222 and Ms. CheatingAPscum" to the game, and videotape his reaction while playing dumb as to how that message even got there.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> :iagree:
> 
> It's taking it to the ridiculous extreme to make the point that actions can and do define a person.


But Larry, it still hurts, ya know.

For those of us who have made the worst possible decisions in our lives hurting the one that we love, I'd say for those of us who are remorseful that that is enough pain to endure. To have someone minimize it to a "ridiculous extreme" shows immaturity in any growth they may have had as a betrayed.

I'm pretty sure that there are more than a few betrayed spouses here who would wince at the "ridiculous extreme" that a wayward/former wayward was portrayed. I'll be even so bold as to write exactly what Dig texted me an hour ago from work.

"There are some at TAM who can and will never grow regardless of their experience with infidelity. Those are the betrayed who stay there for years with nothing but anger and contempt for anyone they label as the "bad guy"." He then told me I should call someone a name to get banned.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Revenge is something you serve only to your enemies.

If you hate him that much just leave him, take what's yours and find something better.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

I do get that it hurts Regret. I'm sorry that it does.

When someone says actions do define a person - consider - what are your *RECENT* actions. Let those define you.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

We are what we do *repeatedly*. I have lied before, and yet I am not a liar. I have stolen before, and yet I am not a thief. I suspect that the same could be said for everyone here.

Actually, make that _everyone everywhere_.


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## squareone (Aug 29, 2014)

Regret214 said:


> Great. New we're compared to Hitler. How insane. Having sex compared to killing unknown numbers of people in a must horrific way, yet having sex with someone outside the marriage is comparable.
> 
> Yes we messed up royally but for God's sake, really???
> 
> ...


Oh my god. I can’t quite believe how that comment was taken WAY out of context.

Just so we're clear, it was NOT directed at you, it was NOT directed at anyone in the forum. It wasn’t even coming from a place of hurt or pain. It WAS in fact a reply to the comment that no individual is defined by their actions. The truth is, every single one of us is defined by our actions. 

Whether you do good or bad things in this world, you are judged. And that judgement is based on your actions not your words. 

My comment wasn't intended to target WS’s nor comparing affairs with holocausts, it was a general comment about PEOPLE (hence why I only quoted the last two sentences). If you choose to take offence to it, then that’s your choice. I’m not here to judge you, that’s between you and your partner. I actually admire any WS who will stand up and take responsibility for what they have done and try and make amends. Not many do. In saying that, if you’re overly sensitive about comments made, then maybe you should avoid the infidelity forum. I know if there was a WS forum, I don’t think I would be reading it, unless it was to gain some understanding.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Hitler was Time Magazine's Man of the Year in 1936. He made the trains run on time and he pulled Germany out of the recession. 

Supposedly, he designed the first model of the Volkswagen, a brand which still lives on today.

(He also declared war on the US, freeing Roosevelt from the onus of being blamed for dragging the US into war.)

what do we remember first about Hitler?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> Hitler was Time Magazine's Man of the Year in 1936.


to think that being TIME's man of the year is an accolade is very faulty 
it just means he was the most news worthy person of the year, good or bad influences


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

NextTimeAround said:


> Hitler was Time Magazine's Man of the Year in 1936. He made the trains run on time and he pulled Germany out of the recession.
> 
> Supposedly, he designed the first model of the Volkswagen, a brand which still lives on today.
> 
> ...


That he was a schizophrenic house painter that was likely exposed to copious amounts of mustard gas in the trenches of WW1.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> Hitler was Time Magazine's Man of the Year in 1936. He made the trains run on time and he pulled Germany out of the recession.
> 
> *Supposedly, he designed the first model of the Volkswagen, a brand which still lives on today.*
> 
> ...


He had a great effect on the development of the Volkswagen("Peoples Car"), but it was Dr. Porsche that did the designing.

And don't forget, he also had the autobahn built.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Anonymousguy1 said:


> The thing I'm not understanding (being new to this site - for "supposed" advice and support) is how negative and vile some people treat those who make the mistake of straying


Cheating isn't a mistake. Its a conscious decision made from one's desires




> ... even those who are truly remorseful and looking for a way to reconcile and better their relationships...


I think, even from people like myself, I will not jump on those that are truly remorseful. For those that want to jump on their BS and are unremorseful, sure, I'll step in. Am not going to let crap like that go unanswered. And I will do it in as civil a way as possible. All depends on the temperament of the gaslighter.




> I keep reading the term "waywards" like this ugly adjective referring to someone here as if he/she were some disgusting alien.


:scratchhead: What would you prefer? To me, wayward is a very nice way of putting it. Trust me, there are more appropriate terms, IMO, that we could use that you'd definitely would not like.




> My point is, it's HARD to be transparent and tell people you don't know a situation about your life in the hopes to get support of helpful advice in order to move on. Yes, some people who cheat are vile and have no regrets, but the truth is, MOST who cheat and are on here generally are trying their best to be better husbands/wives.


I can agree with that. So with that, I will say that its hard to know what to advise anyone if they tailor their story to achieve the maximum benefit of doubt.




> Go easy, no one here has any right to judge


I disagree. Everyone has the right, and everyone does judge, even you whether you think you do or not.

And here is the problem. A lot of WS who get "judged" are judging their spouse and yes, pointing the finger at them. Its kind of silly to cry "judgment" based on the behaviors they are exhibiting.




> or **** on someone because of a mistake he/she made.


I agree about the *****ing on someone part. But again, quit calling it a mistake. It wasn't.




> The truth is, people who are truly remorseful for cheating (especially if it only happened once) deserve to be heard


I wholeheartedly agree.




> .. not referred to as "a wayward" like some insignificant object.


They are referred to as a "wayward", because that is what they are. Even the waywards call themselves that. Why? Because its better than the alternative to keep in perspective their role in the problem.

Again, to identify, what would you prefer?




> As far as OP's "revenge" plot, I agree with some of the comments here: grow up. Either try to make your very long marriage work (I think you owe it to yourselves if he's truly holding himself accountable for his actions), or don't. Separate, find closure and move on. Why fight fire with fire.


As someone that betrayed his GF, I understand why you'd think this way.

I for one believe the best "revenge" is to simply leave and not waste any of one's time doing anything or contacting the person that betrayed them. Leave, never look back, move on to better days.

And I don't think this is so much revenge as getting satisfaction. But what is it about people that do something crappy to someone else, and expect not to have any consequences for their actions. Again, not saying OP should do anything, but I'm not going to look down on him for at least causing some turmoil. 

My best "revenge" was simply divorcing my wife. I feel no need to do anything further. She is no longer my problem. Best revenge ever.


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## Anonymousguy1 (Sep 7, 2014)

onemoreguy said:


> but the analogy was disingenuous and rude, and meant to be hurtful. All participants on tam deserve basic courtesy and respect, not just the bs. Having a balance of both bs and ws helps make tam useful.
> _posted via mobile device_


exactly.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Anonymousguy1 said:


> By neglecting to address them as an individual or by their username, it becomes pretty ****ty... whether he/she cheated or not. People don't lose their value because of something they've done. We aren't defined as individuals by all our actions.


Uh, nobody does that. Nobody when referring to someone substitutes their username with "wayward".

They might say something like, for example, "you as the person that cheated cannot......" or "John Doe, as the wayward spouse you..........."

You are imagining problems that aren't there.

And you, Anonymousguy1(there's an identity for you) being the betrayer, it says too much about your character to NOT be humble and defensive over a word such as "wayward".

If I had cheated on someone, I sure as hell wouldn't get bent out of shape as being grouped as a "wayward". I'd own it and be contrite.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> Don't personalize it?
> 
> How are we not to personalize it when we get to be punching bags for all the walking wounded? How is it that I log in to try to help people cope with the pain of betrayal and see thread after thread questioning remorse, how to get revenge, was it thrilling, etc.
> 
> Yet, we're not supposed to personalize it. How is that?


Now you know what it feels like when waywards say things like, "Yes, I cheated, I own that, but its because you [did or didn't do something to my liking]"

We take it personal too.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> I do get that it hurts Regret. I'm sorry that it does.
> 
> When someone says actions do define a person - consider - what are your *RECENT* actions. Let those define you.


Exactly, peoples' actions do define them. Some define them for life. Some only temporarily. Redemption is a real thing.

Now having said that, I'm going to pedal back a bit. Speaking for myself, if I know a woman to have cheated before, it only defines her to me in the sense that I will not take a chance on dating her, or if cheated on me, will not give a 2nd chance. It doesn't define her to me that she is a bad person or someone I could strike a friendship with.

But as far as relationship material, she could be great for someone, just not me.


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## Anonymousguy1 (Sep 7, 2014)

larry.gray said:


> I do get that it hurts Regret. I'm sorry that it does.
> 
> When someone says actions do define a person - consider - what are your *RECENT* actions. Let those define you.


Agreed. Thank you.

For my entire life I have done so much for my family in any way I can... and as recent as a few months ago I stood by my father's side and was the secondary caretaker to my grandfather until his final day. 
I've also ALWAYS supported my long-time girlfriend in EVERYTHING she's done, professionally and personally. I show nothing but encouragement and unconditional love to her. Do I admit that I ****ed up by kissing someone else, of course I do. My ACTION was wayward, yes, but the fact that I am not "wayward" by nature is the argument I'm making. 

My ACTION doesn't discount all the good I do in my life as well as the generosity I am capable of. My heart is and has always been in the right place, but by no means am I perfect. Neither are any of you who hold so much contempt for those who you refer to simply as a "wayward." If some people invested more energy into devising a plan to SAVE their relationship instead of coming on here with other hurt spouses to talk about revenge and how much they can't stand their spouse, then maybe marriages and relationships in the 21st century wouldn't be so bleak/one-tracked.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Anonymousguy1 said:


> My ACTION doesn't discount all the good I do in my life as well as the generosity I am capable of.


I agree, but then you lost me below.



> My heart is and has always been in the right place, but by no means am I perfect. Neither are any of you who hold so much contempt for those who you refer to simply as a "wayward." *If some people invested more energy into devising a plan to SAVE their relationship instead of coming on here with other hurt spouses to talk about revenge and how much they can't stand their spouse, then maybe marriages and relationships in the 21st century wouldn't be so bleak/one-tracked*.


So is this why you cheated on your GF? She didn't invest enough energy into the relationship?


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

The short of it is - if it offends you, then there’s some truth to it.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

cantthinkstraight said:


> The short of it is - if it offends you, then there’s some truth to it.


So if someone is offended because they are told they deserved to be cheated on? Did they deserve it? Really?


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## Anonymousguy1 (Sep 7, 2014)

vellocet said:


> Uh, nobody does that. Nobody when referring to someone substitutes their username with "wayward".
> 
> They might say something like, for example, "you as the person that cheated cannot......" or "John Doe, as the wayward spouse you..........."
> 
> ...


Considering the fact that you're judging me personally based on a virtual identity as well as a summarising me based off few sentences is a pretty pathetic and sweeping generalizing way to come to a conclusion.
For the record, I'm not arguing the word or the definition of the word itself, it's the context it's being used in. If we're on here, one would hope for fairness and respect to others - neither are present and it makes conversation as well as transparency extremely pointless.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Anonymousguy1 said:


> Considering the fact that you're judging me personally based on a virtual identity as well as a summarising me based off few sentences is a pretty pathetic and sweeping generalizing way to come to a conclusion.


Judging you on a virtual identity? Well what was my conclusion then? You said that we are lessening someone's value by not calling them by their username. Your UN has "anonymous" in it. Just an observation. No conclusion made.




> For the record, I'm not arguing the word or the definition of the word itself, it's the context it's being used in. If we're on here, one would hope for fairness and respect to others


I agree. So lets be fair. When a person comes here that has betrayed someone, doesn't like the way people who have been betrayed portray "waywards", those that were hurt by someone like you, and decides to get all defensive about the word "wayward", like I said, it doesn't exude remorse. 

Seems to me that a lot of those who have betrayed someone want respect, but reserve the right to disrespect those that are hurting at the hands of people like themselves.
Like I said, if I had cheated on someone, I sure as hell wouldn't be getting up in a bunch of BS's faces and nitpicking a word such as "wayward". I'd be one humble son of a beyotch.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

The Middleman said:


> I'm a huge believer in the value of revenge, on both the wayward and the affair partner. This sometimes makes my opinions very unpopular here, especially with the waywards.
> 
> I like using exposure as a revenge tool as well as a tool for ending the affair. I'm inclined to tell you continue gathering the information. Get copies of the texts, emails, photos and call logs and make them "publicly available" or as public as you want. This is especially effective if the texts and photos are on the kinky side. Having all the friends and family know what is actually going on in his dirty head is as embarrassing as all hell. If you have photos, that's just icing on the cake. It's almost like having him on a sex offenders listing. I like the concept of having a web page set up dedicated to his affair, then Google can do the exposure for you.
> 
> ...


Domestic violence can happen outside of marriage! My brother was murdered by a jealous ex husband. Do NOT go public to try to shame anyone. My brother's killer was ashamed that his close knit community knew his wife left him and then started dating a man from outside of their community. No public act of shaming require and still my brother is dead. Do not do this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

ebp123 said:


> Domestic violence can happen outside of marriage! My brother was murdered by a jealous ex husband. Do NOT go public to try to shame anyone. *My brother's killer was ashamed that his close knit community knew his wife left him and then started dating a man from outside of their community.* No public act of shaming require and still my brother is dead. Do not do this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What sort of community was this?


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

vellocet said:


> So if someone is offended because they are told they deserved to be cheated on? Did they deserve it? Really?



It was directed at Anonymousguy1 in regards to taking issue with
the term "wayward". Badly worded on my part.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

cantthinkstraight said:


> It was directed at Anonymousguy1 in regards to taking issue with
> the term "wayward". Badly worded on my part.


Ah, sorry my man.

Well here is a humdinger for you, Anonyguy is on his thread "judging" the girl he betrayed his gf with and being "vile" towards her....and what was he saying earlier in this thread? :scratchhead:


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Revenge Ideas Anyone??*



ebp123 said:


> Domestic violence can happen outside of marriage! My brother was murdered by a jealous ex husband. Do NOT go public to try to shame anyone. My brother's killer was ashamed that his close knit community knew his wife left him and then started dating a man from outside of their community. No public act of shaming require and still my brother is dead. Do not do this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow I never knew that about you epb, thanks for sharing and my sympathy for what you and your family lost. And I agree, public shaming does not right any wrongs.


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

ebp123 said:


> Domestic violence can happen outside of marriage! My brother was murdered by a jealous ex husband. Do NOT go public to try to shame anyone. My brother's killer was ashamed that his close knit community knew his wife left him and then started dating a man from outside of their community. No public act of shaming require and still my brother is dead. Do not do this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Holy Ch*** man/gal... im really sorry for your loss. Thats terrible


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

vellocet said:


> Now you know what it feels like when waywards say things like, "Yes, I cheated, I own that, but its because you [did or didn't do something to my liking]"
> 
> We take it personal too.


You are so stuck on that and have YET to quote exactly where someone has said it.

I don't NEED to feel "what it feels like" to have sh-t said to me. You have no earthly idea what I've had to feel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> The short of it is - if it offends you, then there’s some truth to it.


Ah, so when someone calls my sister in law a N....er, she should accept that truth because it offends her. Gotcha.

What an ignorant place TAM has become.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> Ah, so when someone calls my sister in law a N....er, she should accept that truth because it offends her. Gotcha._Posted via Mobile Device_


WOW ... That's almost as good as the Hitler comment. Hows about we end the absurd analogies that make no sense in the discussion.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Regret214 said:


> What an ignorant place TAM has become.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> We are what we do *repeatedly*. I have lied before, and yet I am not a liar. I have stolen before, and yet I am not a thief. I suspect that the same could be said for everyone here.
> 
> Actually, make that _everyone everywhere_.


I wanted to agree with you, but I keep wanting to say "If one murders someone (only once), aren't they a murderer?"

And please everyone, this isn't random hyperbole and please don't get bent out of shape like with the Hitler comment. I'm not making an emotional, hysterical point, but an observation about maybe the "repeatedly" criteria is less applicable when the severity or extremes come into play? Commit one rape, you're a rapist. Sexually touch one kid, your a child molester...


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

2xloser said:


> I wanted to agree with you, but I keep wanting to say "If one murders someone (only once), aren't they a murderer?"
> 
> And please everyone, this isn't random hyperbole and please don't get bent out of shape like with the Hitler comment. I'm not making an emotional, hysterical point, but an observation about maybe the "repeatedly" criteria is less applicable when the severity or extremes come into play? Commit one rape, you're a rapist. Sexually touch one kid, your a child molester...


A murderer can never give a person back their life, and thus is always a murderer. A cheater can give their BS back their heart and loyalty. As to whether the BS can trust that person again is another story and entirely up to the BS..


----------



## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

Regret214 said:


> Ah, so when someone calls my sister in law a N....er, she should accept that truth because it offends her. Gotcha.
> 
> What an ignorant place TAM has become.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's a pretty ginormous leap from what the poster said within the context of the discussion at hand to the hyperbolic example you gave to disprove the point he made. I think it's clear he was making the point (in a concise form) that when somebody has done something morally wrong and gets rightfully criticized for it, instead of taking offence and lashing out in anger they should do some soul searching and realize that it's there own conscience that is truly accusing them. 
The comment was written in the context of judging human behavior, not insulting somebody for their physical appearance. Your sister in law didn't choose to be black but you did choose to have an affair. You earned the term 'wayward' with your actions, she did nothing to merit being called an 'n word' by the mere fact of being born with more melanin. One is an issue of biology(being) the other of morality(doing). There is no comparison between the two of them. Apples and oranges or better yet apples and spaceships.



OptimisticPessimist said:


> A murderer can never give a person back their life, and thus is always a murderer. A cheater can give their BS back their heart and loyalty. As to whether the BS can trust that person again is another story and entirely up to the BS..


Not to be a negative nitpicker, as I actually agree with the overall point I believe your making (that betrayers can be redeemed) but there really isn't any way the cheating spouse can ever give the betrayed spouse their faithfulness back.
Once it's gone it's gone forever, so the acts of murder and adultery while not morally equal are both equally 'final' in the sense that they can never be undone. At least IMO.


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

Nostromo said:


> That's a pretty ginormous leap from what the poster said within the context of the discussion at hand to the hyperbolic example you gave to disprove the point he made. I think it's clear he was making the point (in a concise form) that when somebody has done something morally wrong and gets rightfully criticized for it, instead of taking offence and lashing out in anger they should do some soul searching and realize that it's there own conscience that is truly accusing them.
> The comment was written in the context of judging human behavior, not insulting somebody for their physical appearance. Your sister in law didn't choose to be black but you did choose to have an affair. You earned the term 'wayward' with your actions, she did nothing to merit being called an 'n word' by the mere fact of being born with more melanin. One is an issue of biology(being) the other of morality(doing). There is no comparison between the two of them. Apples and oranges or better yet apples and spaceships.
> 
> 
> ...


That is another way to look at it... it is true that the BS can never say "<spouse name> has always been loyal" internally or to another person.

It is a matter of perspective really and I think it depends on the perspective of the BS.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

OptimisticPessimist said:


> It is a matter of perspective really and I think it depends on the perspective of the BS.


:iagree: And while a WS like Regret and others doing their very best can impact that perspective, with others such as my WW no matter what she did, no matter how remorseful, I just could not get past it. Everyone's different, every "case" is unique.


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## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

OptimisticPessimist said:


> That is another way to look at it... it is true that the BS can never say "<spouse name> has always been loyal" internally or to another person.
> 
> It is a matter of perspective really and I think it depends on the perspective of the BS.


Hmm, fair enough. I think we agree more than we disagree. 
I just view faithfulness as something more akin to virginity in the sense that it is something you either have or you don't. 
For example you know how some people become 
'born again virgins' where they get baptized before getting married to reclaim their lost 'purity'. They do this with the hope that it will somehow erase what they've already done, but of course the act of being dunked in water doesn't literally erase their premarital sexual history. A baptism is merely an outward symbol of an inner reality of the heart, or at least that's what it's supposed to be.

In a somewhat similar manner I believe the adulterer/adulteress can be forgiven by their spouse and family, get remarried to them, rededicate themselves to their spouse in front of their community and live the rest of their lives being 'faithful' to their spouse after the fact, but nothing they do will ever erase the physical reality of what they've already done. We(being all of us) can repent of our sins and be forgiven, we can be redeemed and spiritually cleansed but we can never escape the natural consequences of our actions, at least not in this life.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

The blunt and brutal honesty is this: Any wayward on this board who is working with reconciliation has ONLY to answer to their spouse. I answer only to Dig. His love and feelings are all I care about. You guys can all call me wayward or whatever, I really don't care.

Dig calls me his wife and his love.

THAT is what matters.

I'm sorry a lot of you got hurt by the one you trusted most. But I'm not your spouse. Neither is EI or Pidge or Maricha or even Zanne. I read Healer in another thread when he had a very huge moment of clarity and opened up. By opening up, he made himself vulnerable. That is rare. Very rare. He took a leap by doing that in that thread and I commend him.

I pray peace for all of you. I hope that one day you wake up not wanting or needing to come to TAM to validate the hurt, pain and anguish you feel.

I hope that one day soon even I will wake up and not feel the pull to log in and attempt to get someone to maybe think, "Maybe I should treat each person's story of infidelity as it's own story and not my own."

I hope that day is tomorrow.

Dig was in the heart of his pain when he wrote, "I hate this place. It gives me comfort".

He was right.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

OptimisticPessimist said:


> A murderer can never give a person back their life, and thus is always a murderer. A cheater can give their BS back their heart and loyalty. As to whether the BS can trust that person again is another story and entirely up to the BS..


But the can't un-eff the AP, can they?


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## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

cantthinkstraight said:


> The short of it is - if it offends you, then there’s some truth to it.





vellocet said:


> So if someone is offended because they are told they deserved to be cheated on? Did they deserve it? Really?





cantthinkstraight said:


> It was directed at Anonymousguy1 in regards to taking issue with
> the term "wayward". Badly worded on my part.





Regret214 said:


> Holy cow. You got ALL of that insight from _"The short of it is - if it offends you, then there’s some truth to it."_?
> 
> Talk about "ginormous"!
> 
> ...


No Regret I didn't get 'all of that' from his one comment but given the discussion that was taking place and his subsequent post explaining exactly what he meant that I quoted for you above. I deduced that he was likely speaking about behavior and not calling somebody a n***er. Perhaps you missed his other posts and you did not fully understand his point, I do not know. However I do know that you went above and beyond the call of duty to paint his intent in the worst imaginable light possible in order to dismiss what he said. Which is what I took umbrage with.


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

Nostromo said:


> Hmm, fair enough. I think we agree more than we disagree.
> I just view faithfulness as something more akin to virginity in the sense that it is something you either have or you don't.
> For example you know how some people become
> 'born again virgins' where they get baptized before getting married to reclaim their lost 'purity'. They do this with the hope that it will somehow erase what they've already done, but of course the act of being dunked in water doesn't literally erase their premarital sexual history. A baptism is merely an outward symbol of an inner reality of the heart, or at least that's what it's supposed to be.
> ...


No, youre right. In terms of the virginal aspects of loyalty I agree with you. Whether that is the most important aspect of loyalty or if the most important is being dedicated in the aftermath and onwards I suppose is subjective.

We agree really- just semantical differences. FWIW, I personally would walk away if my wife were to be unfaithful, so I get your point as I would do it for the same reason. I have never betrayed anyone and being betrayed would be grounds for immediate divorce.

That said, I am formed by the life I have had, and logical semantics aside I can understand that another perspective might be more "right" to one person than my perspective would be (to them). 


larry.gray said:


> But the can't un-eff the AP, can they?


True, you could say it this way. You cannot undo the betrayal either. 

I suppose I was trying to point out that the WS _can_ become loyal with _that person_ in the aftermath (as members here have); a murderer cannot aim to preserve the life of his victim in the aftermath- once the person is dead there is no chance to help that person.

I get what you mean though...


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Regret214 said:


> Ah, so when someone calls my sister in law a N....er, she should accept that truth because it offends her. Gotcha.
> 
> What an ignorant place TAM has become.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Situation is apples to oranges. Its the same as a rapist or pedophile who commits an heinous act one but is remorseful and never offends again.....but they are forever considered a rapist or pedophile. And yes in my book adultery and rape are equivalent and very much the same if there was no physical injury to the victim...other than STD and the psychological and mental anguish that is forced on them by the POSOM/W and WS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

OptimisticPessimist said:


> No, youre right. In terms of the virginal aspects of loyalty I agree with you. Whether that is the most important aspect of loyalty or if the most important is being dedicated in the aftermath and onwards I suppose is subjective.
> 
> We agree really- just semantical differences. FWIW, I personally would walk away if my wife were to be unfaithful, so I get your point as I would do it for the same reason. I have never betrayed anyone and being betrayed would be grounds for immediate divorce.
> 
> ...


In some ways a quick murder is more humane than the psychological torture a BS goes through by their WS. It may not be for the family of the deceased...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Jesus guys. This thread should be locked. I don't see how this back and forth is helpful to anyone.

Are we really about to go down a path where we are going to rank heinous acts? What's worse? Cheating or rape or mirder or pedophilia??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Divinely Favored said:


> I hear a lot of people speak how adultery is worse than when they lost their child....I've never lost a child but I have dealt with the aftermath of rape, pedaphilia and adultery. The hurt, anger and despair are similar in a lot of ways. I do not imagine you could fully understand unless you have been on that side.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Is rather be cheated on 1000 times than lose my child or see a child be abused or my wife raped

Seriously this is absolutely insane 
You sir need psychological help if it hurt you anywhere close to those events


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Jesus guys. This thread should be locked. I don't see how this back and forth is helpful to anyone.
> 
> Are we really about to go down a path where we are going to rank heinous acts? What's worse? Cheating or rape or mirder or pedophilia??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They are all "Sins unto Death" unless you repent and sin no more. But the damage still has to be dealt with and atoned for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Having been raped in college by a group of guys and having been the victim of child sexual abuse, yes I know all too well the anguish involved. My son almost died (we thought we were going to lose him less than a day after he was born).

I fully understand, comprehend and totally have been on that side.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

I wrote this before on this forum from my GF who was raped and went thur infidelity with her spouse. Which hurt the most when asked? she replied, "At least I didn't know the rapist face."

~sammy


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Almostrecovered said:


> Is rather be cheated on 1000 times than lose my child or see a child be abused or my wife raped
> 
> Seriously this is absolutely insane
> You sir need psychological help if it hurt you anywhere close to those events


Like I said...I never had child die. I'm going off what I've heard numerous others say who have lost children and been betrayed by their spouses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> Like I said...I never had child die. I'm going off what I've heard numerous others say who have lost children and been betrayed by their spouses.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dig said it's absolutely no comparison. In his words, "You f'ng another guy is nothing compared to when ___(son's name) almost died in front of our eyes."

There. From the horses mouth to print from a man who's also dealt with being the victim of child sexual abuse. This argument holds ZERO water.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

vellocet said:


> Now you know what it feels like when waywards say things like, "Yes, I cheated, I own that, but its because you [did or didn't do something to my liking]"
> 
> We take it personal too.





Regret214 said:


> You are so stuck on that and have YET to quote exactly where someone has said it.
> 
> I don't NEED to feel "what it feels like" to have sh-t said to me. You have no earthly idea what I've had to feel.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is it really necessary for him to dredge thru TAM for that? We all have seen that scenario so many times around here that it is has become common knowledge for nearly everyone else.

By the way all those tales of tragedy above are bad. All are terribly bad. No need to rank them. 

The difference is infidelity has a degree of control and prevention that are simple to apply, thus avoiding the tragedy. Really wants to make you bang your head at times.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Divinely Favored said:


> Like I said...I never had child die. I'm going off what I've heard numerous others say who have lost children and been betrayed by their spouses.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


numerous?! wow 

I do have a friend (just one), who lost a baby at one week and was cheated on recently 
I WOULD NOT DARE EVEN ASK SUCH AN ABSURD QUESTION as I am positive that the loss of his baby 10 years ago still hurts him deeply today
Yes being cheated on sucks donkey balls and it messed me up for close to 2 years- but you need a reality check if you want to put in the same ballpark

I feel bad for you that you were hurt or your supposed friends were hurt that much


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Forest said:


> Is it really necessary for him to dredge thru TAM for that? We all have seen that scenario so many times around here that it is has become common knowledge for nearly everyone else.
> 
> I looked back at your early posts, and you mentioned your resentment toward you husband, a need for escape. What is the connotation of that?


I suggest you read more. A lot more. I''ve spoken countless times of how I created that resentment in my own mind. On Dday, I tried one time to blame shift and Dig shut me down. I've never again done so.

And yes, he should dredge this place because it's a constant whine and excuse thrown in the face of every wayward spouse and the basis of his argument.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

OK, I read more, but just a little more. I'm not going to waste time proving to you what others already accept. This is something you wrote:

"My BS was gone, I was busier than ever with 2 children, a full time job, the house, the bills, etc.... I resented my BS because he had none of the responsibility, but all of benefits. He could come home, have his bills paid, dinner made, laundry done, playtime with the kids, then off to another adventure somewhere tropical. I hated hearing him say that he didn’t enjoy being away....he’d rather have me with him. I couldn’t understand how he could not enjoy being away....I just wanted to escape. But, I never told him. I never let him know how much I hated being alone and doing it all myself and how much I needed him. I never wanted to admit that I needed anyone. I thought I had to be the dutiful, supportive wife. This was the life I chose, I had to deal with it."


Does this not present the connotation that the reason you were so unhappy (thus had an affair) on the fact that your husband was not home enough/engaged enough to keep you content?


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

No. It presents a time when I was closed off to my relationship with Dig. It presents what I thought reality was. I never blamed him after Dday because I saw what I had done and how clouded I'd made myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Regret214 said:


> Having been raped in college by a group of guys and having been the victim of child sexual abuse, yes I know all too well the anguish involved. My son almost died (we thought we were going to lose him less than a day after he was born).
> 
> I fully understand, comprehend and totally have been on that side.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry to hear that....then you know what it feels like to be cheated on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Regret214 said:


> Dig said it's absolutely no comparison. In his words, "You f'ng another guy is nothing compared to when ___(son's name) almost died in front of our eyes."
> 
> There. From the horses mouth to print from a man who's also dealt with being the victim of child sexual abuse. This argument holds ZERO water.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Others have said for the short term the death of a child is greater but the adulterous spouse is still there and the pain stays at a higher level for a longer period of time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Almost recovered they were not friends...they were people from here and other sites.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

and you believe everything you read on the internet?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> Sorry to hear that....then you know what it feels like to be cheated on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can't believe what I just read.

She just explained how she was sexually abused as a child, gang raped and assaulted in college, and how she almost lost her newborn baby.

And your response is, Well, now you know how it feels to be cheated on!!

Are you for real? I hope your God doesn't read that. He would not look kindly upon you.

Peace out folks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I can't believe what I just read.
> 
> She just explained how she was sexually abused as a child, gang raped and assaulted in college, and how she almost lost her newborn baby.
> 
> ...


I am referring to the deep emotional trama associated with these things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

The best revenge

Moving on, being successful and happy, showing them just how little they mean to you when they are gone.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> Sorry to hear that....then you know what it feels like to be cheated on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You piece of sh-t. Fvck you and whatever damned god you worship. You have no idea what I endured that night or the fact that it broke me. I hope you suffer with pain greater than I.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> You are so stuck on that and have YET to quote exactly where someone has said it.


You'd have to be blind not to see it. There is always a WS that throws out their disclaimer that they own their behavior, then throw in a "BUT", whether direct or implied, then went on to describe what their BS did to push them to cheat.

Don't play dumb, you know well what I'm talking about.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> Ah, so when someone calls my sister in law a N....er, she should accept that truth because it offends her. Gotcha.
> 
> What an ignorant place TAM has become.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Way to put words in his mouth.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

vellocet said:


> You'd have to be blind not to see it. There is always a WS that throws out their disclaimer that they own their behavior, then throw in a "BUT", whether direct or implied, then went on to describe what their BS did to push them to cheat.
> 
> Don't play dumb, you know well what I'm talking about.


A WS. A. So, stop being a baby and claiming that's what "they" do. While you're at it, why not be a little more manly and just say EI's screen name when you claim it.

Between you and now this POS claiming that my being gang raped is equivalent to how Dig felt about my affair this place has gone to sh-t. You scorned and wounded idiots can have it. As for me, I'm lucky to have the man I have and not some little pretend alpha thinker who's a sheep in wolf's clothing.

See ya TAM. You've succeeded in running off another.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> Dig said it's absolutely no comparison. In his words, "You f'ng another guy is nothing compared to when ___(son's name) almost died in front of our eyes."


With this I absolutely agree. 

But sometimes off the wall comparisons are shot out there due to people trying to downplay the pain caused by infidelity, or try to throw an argument out there that there are worse things than infidelity.

Of course there are worse things than infidelity. Getting stabbed with a knife, IMO, is worse than being assaulted. Doesn't make the latter any less wrong.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

love=pain said:


> The best revenge
> 
> Moving on, being successful and happy, showing them just how little they mean to you when they are gone.


Yes, this. Thanks for attempting to bring this thread back on track.

This is how I handle my life. However, I will say I won't look down on or deny the satisfaction anyone would feel by getting some sort of little revenge, as long as it doesn't involve violence or something illegal.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Regret214 said:


> Ah, so when someone calls my sister in law a N....er, she should accept that truth because it offends her. Gotcha.
> 
> What an ignorant place TAM has become.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Your sister-in-law is black?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

or nags a lot


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Divinely Favored said:


> I am referring to the deep emotional trama associated with these things.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's one of the most callous and disrespectful responses to someone I've ever read here in TAM. 

Look, I don't know your story, and I haven't taken the time to read Dig's and Regret's story either. 

I do know there is a lot of disrespect shown to wayward spouses on here, regardless of their attitudes now. Even the most remorseful of wayward spouses are often hammered here. A lot of people seem to project their own situations onto the wayward spouses here. IMO anyone who comes here for discussion and/or debate should be given a basic minimum of respect. If you wouldn't have the balls to say something to someone's face, then don't post it on here. 

Because if you would have said that to her or anyone else's face with that background you would have gotten a backhand across the face.

We are all in agreement- cheating is bad. Cheating is vile. It is one of the worst acts someone can do to their spouse. It is traumatic for the betrayed spouse. It will leave a permanent scar on their soul. No question about it.

But anyone that is comparing cheating to murder and rape and the death of a child and for god's sake pedophilia really needs professional help. You really do. You gotta find a way to get past the anger.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> But anyone that is comparing cheating to murder and rape and the death of a child and for god's sake pedophilia really needs professional help. You really do. You gotta find a way to get past the anger.


First off, I don't disagree with what you said about WS being treated badly. I tailor my responses based on their frame of mind. I love the hell out of x-WSs such as MJA, Mariacha, Affaircare, and a couple of others.

Having said that, with regards to what you said above, I agree, it shouldn't be compared to those things, by either side. Because its irrelevant.

Infidelity is compared to these things by some on the BS side of the fence as to say its just as bad as those things. I've even been guilty of it at one time I'm sure.

Those that sympathize with the WS side will use the comparison to say that there are worse things than infidelity in an effort to downplay the severity.

So both sides should not use any comparison. There are worse things than infidelity, there are things not as bad as infidelity. It doesn't make the topic at hand......infidelity...any less painful and a destructive act.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> Ah, so when someone calls my sister in law a N....er, she should accept that truth because it offends her. Gotcha.
> 
> What an ignorant place TAM has become.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please show me where I *ever* made *any* reference to you personally.

You’re actually equating the term N***er to a wayward?!? :scratchhead:

Really? Talk about ignorance…


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

I've stated this many times in my own thread:

My EW's infidelity was easily the MOST painful thing I've ever had
to go through. Even more than the unexpected death of my mother.

It ruined everything and it has taken me *years* to rebuild my life and recover.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I gotcha, Vellocet. And I have no problems making allusions to drive a point home. It just seemed like this thread just shot off into an awful direction, comparing heinous acts. Really, let's hope that a cheating spouse is the worst most of us may ever have to deal with compared to other tragedies. Or ideally none of the above, in a perfect world.

I'm tough on waywards too, especially ones that start threads, I cheated on my wife, I'm sorry I did it, but she wasn't giving me any sex, is I went to a prostitute, blah blah blah. Often a highlight of my day when those pop up.

Just In general hope others who contribute extensively and provide insight into their thinking are given a bit more courtesy around here and the discussion doesn't devolve into name calling and stone throwing.

Anyway end of rant. Looks like the issue at hand has been resolved anyway for the time being.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

cantthinkstraight said:


> Please show me where I *ever* made *any* reference to you personally.
> 
> You’re actually equating the term N***er to a wayward?!? :scratchhead:
> 
> Really? Talk about ignorance…


Are you calling me fat?

:bsflag:


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

no but I am fatty fat fat guy


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## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

Forest said:


> Are you calling me fat?
> 
> :bsflag:


:lol: "You disagree with me on healthcare? You hate Polynesians, admit it, you just hate Polynesians." 

I..uh..um..wait what happened?:scratchhead:


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## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

cantthinkstraight said:


> Please show me where I *ever* made *any* reference to you personally.
> 
> You’re actually equating the term N***er to a wayward?!? :scratchhead:
> 
> Really? Talk about ignorance…


"Oh you were called a racial slur for being black? I know exactly how you feel. I was once called a thief by the guy I was carjacking." 

#DownWithTheStuggle


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Come on....polynesians are cool..... grinning. 

I do believe that TAM misses out on the brutally honest thoughts and emotions of WSs, especially as they go thru the R process. That would be insightful to BSs even tho probably quite painful. Moving from an EA back into a marriage is not like turning a switch on and off, and it is definitely not like being in a fog that you magically walk out of. Discussions of R on TAM would be better if WS could post without the backlash. Oh well, I hope regrets is not gone for good....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> It's one of the most callous and disrespectful responses to someone I've ever read here in TAM.


I agree, it was uncalled for.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Divinely Favored said:


> Sorry to hear that....then you know what it feels like to be cheated on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I cannot believe I actually read this. You have got to be f*****g kidding me, how totally, completely disgusting. Shame on you.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Regret214 said:


> You scorned and wounded idiots can have it.
> ...
> See ya TAM. You've succeeded in running off another.


...and while I wish there weren't these generalizations, THAT is a damn shame. Happy, DF? I'm not. (I know: "you don't care"). 
Nevertheless, I hope she reconsiders.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Lots of ADD going on around here. Adulation Deficit Disorder. It commonly replaces Attention (from the opposite sex) Deficit Disorder.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> Like I said...I never had child die. I'm going off what I've heard numerous others say who have lost children and been betrayed by their spouses.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I call bull on this one.

The least of your issues is that you have been cheated on.

Please get to a qualified IC.


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## squareone (Aug 29, 2014)

Each to their own...but...I just can't get my head around the thought that betrayal could be more painful than losing a child.

I think it would be the ULTIMATE pain.

I have been cheated on, lost my father, been raped by a serial rapist as a teenager, lost my partner and father of my eldest children to drowning and yes, all have been tragic and very painful. But nothing, NOTHING on this earth would destroy me more than the loss of one of my children. And I don't even have to experience that to know it, nor do I ever wish to.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

aug said:


> Your sister-in-law is black?


Or maybe she is a Nazi.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I do know there is a lot of disrespect shown to wayward spouses on here, regardless of their attitudes now. Even the most remorseful of wayward spouses are often hammered here. A lot of people seem to project their own situations onto the wayward spouses here.


I have a therory as to why - just note that it is _why some BS's are inclined_ NOT that it is an *excuse to allow it.*. I am on the same page as you & Rookie on the subject.

Many BS's never get a remorseful WS / exWS. Their WS is cold, heartless and doesn't care about what they put them through. There is nothing they can say that will change that. Pretty much all BS's will say cold, mean, and nasty things around D-day. But for some, they never seem to strike home. When they come here and they find a WS that is unlike their own. They are hurt by what is said. It makes that WS a tempting target because now they have someone who is hurt by what is said.

A very good example of just that is the Tears thread. The whole 2076 post thread is here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/52532-i-cheated-my-husband-left.html 

She cheated and was instantly remorseful. She came to TAM and was lead on how to be the perfect fWS. The whole time she was piled on by quite a few members. Many were banned, and eventually the thread was locked.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> Or maybe she is a Nazi.


I get the joke, I just would warn you that it is VERY easy to take wrong.

I also think we should now lay off any jokes connected to a banned member since she can't come back on and comment about it.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I have just caught up with this thread - jeezus!!! How did "Revenge Ideas" deteriorate into this. I ignored this thread because I wasn't interested in revenge. But somehow a comment about being banned on another thread led me back here.

Firstly, Regret, I am truly sorry that you had to endure the kind of abuse and drivel that has been spouted here. 

Secondly, DF, what is wrong with you ? Seriously. I am a spiritual person and don't knowingly knock other people's faiths because I believe faith and love is all we have. Brains and intelligence come a distant second. However, I agree with others in that whatever faith you are following, you really must be misreading the manual.

Cheating is painful - but nowhere near losing a child or being raped - both much, much worse.

Losing a child would cause me to break down and I hope I never have to experience that - ever - because I am not even sure my faith or spiritualism would bring me back up from that.

And rapists are the ultimate devils after pedophiles - worthless scum.

I have been cheated on and I forgave and recovered. Would never want any of the above for my wife in a million lifetimes.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't get this silly need for comparing pain. You really can't, because it's individual and contextual.

I can say that infidleity is the worst thing that have happened to me, and that I can't imagine anything worse than that. Another poster who lost a child may say, that it is the worst thing that ever happened to him, and that he can't imagine anything worse than that.

My thought is that both of our imaginations should be considered limited. Maybe I tried to lose a child, worked through the pain and consider myself "over it" - as for the infidelity, not through it yet, still feels the raw pain of it so it seems worse at this time in life. Maybe some of you are getting used to be cheated on, and it's no big deal anymore. Maybe the opposite... maybe you haven't experienced either of these traumas - so who's to judge?

Maybe some people have an easier time to deal with situations that are defined by their finality and cand handle uncertain situations like infidelity where nothing is what it seems like. Other people may be scared of the inrevesibility of death.

My point is, we're alll different and cope with a life crisis in different ways, so it makes no sense to compare. And it's definitely not a discussion worth a ban.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

You know what? There really is no comparison. This is true, cpacan. I had a miscarriage at 12 weeks, 14 years ago. I still think about that lost baby. I lost my mom 5 months ago. So that's fresh in my mind, still. My husband had "just" an EA 2 years ago. I can say, honestly, that I would rather he have sex with another woman than lose any member of my family by death. In fact, if him cheating could bring back my mom (whole and healthy), I'd 10X rather he cheat. Death is final. With infidelity, there is always that one small hope, even when saying "no way in hell."... It can still happen.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I posted this in Dig's thread a few minutes ago...



GusPolinski said:


> I'll be honest... to read someone do little more than minimize the absolute soul-crushing devastation that I felt in the days and weeks following the discovery of wife's infidelities by essentially saying, "Meh, it could've been worse..." angers and infuriates me.
> 
> Each type of trauma carries with it a unique pain "fingerprint" based on the subtle (or overt) nuances inherent to it, and bickering over which is worse is pretty pointless.


I've lost loved ones before, and it hurt pretty badly (one in particular). The pain that I felt upon learning of my wife's infidelities, however, was much, much worse. 

Now... I obviously can't say whether or not this is or will be true for everyone, nor would I seek to tell anyone how he or she should feel at having experienced either event; I'm only imparting my own experiences.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Well I guess we are all different and I certainly learn something about mankind everyday.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I just feel the need to clarify my thoughts, and I hope I didn't come off offensive or that I was trying to minimize anyone's pain from infidelity. This is a marriage forum and we are all here to offer or receive advice and to share experiences. Everyone's pain is their own, and those who have experienced infidelity's pain is real. 

Just seemed like the thread was devolving into a silly p!ssing contest, my pain is worse than your pain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

To nobody in particular. I don't think myself or anybody else here is really in a position to tell anybody that they should feel more pain from losing a kid than being betrayed by their spouse. And if your gut instinct is to lecture that person on why they should feel differently rather than I don't know maybe just giving them a hug and sharing in their sorrow, then perhaps you're not as overflowing with compassion and empathy as you might like to imagine. It's not up to you how somebody else should grieve a loss. For all you know that person believes their child is in heaven waiting for them and they're stuck down here realizing the one person they thought loved them was a total fraud.

As for she whose name shall not be spoken, when your first post in a thread started by a woman whose just found out her husband cheated on her is telling the OP to "grow up" and then you follow that up with dismissing other posters claims that being betrayed was more painful than losing their loved one, it shouldn't be surprising when somebody eventually punches back. Unfortunately some people don't have that built in censor in their head that warns them that they're crossing a line with what they're about to say/write and they go for the jugular. 
The lesson to take away from this is don't be rude and condescending to people who are obviously in a lot of pain.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

"She whose name shall not be spoken"? 
Yea, I can't even begin to count how many times Regret was attacked until Dig told people to stfu. Even after Dig was banned, one person did take a cheap shot at her, which got Dig riled and he created another account for the sole purpose of defending his wife. Generally speaking, Regret has not been rude, nor condescending toward others. But hey, it's ok for them to attack her. Cheap shot from DF saying maybe she knows a little of what it's like to be cheated on, after she told what happened to her. But that's ok, right? Because, after all, Regret had the audacity to relay both her feelings as well as Dig's on the subject of death vs infidelity.

Truly, this place has gone to hell. It's sad, really. And you know what? As bad as infidelity is, there ARE worse things in this world we could deal with!


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

... In your opinion.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

cpacan said:


> ... In your opinion.


Yes, in my opinion. As well as the opinions of many others. Yea, I guess I am minimizing infidelity in this case...to some. Frankly, I couldn't care less at this point. Too many on here are too quick to jump on a wayward who has the guts to come here and open up, wanting to do whatever he or she can to repair, if possible. Then the lynch mob swoops in and before you know it, the wayward is the worst person in the entire world... because the feelings toward their own spouses have been projected onto THIS person. 

Honestly, TAM is not the site for help anymore. There was a hell of a lot more help when Beo, Morrigan, Dig, and even Mori were on here. Unfortunately, their leaving left the door WIDE OPEN for the negative people to take control. Well done.


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## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

Maricha75 said:


> "She whose name shall not be spoken"?
> Yea, I can't even begin to count how many times Regret was attacked until Dig told people to stfu. Even after Dig was banned, one person did take a cheap shot at her, which got Dig riled and he created another account for the sole purpose of defending his wife. Generally speaking, Regret has not been rude, nor condescending toward others. But hey, it's ok for them to attack her. Cheap shot from DF saying maybe she knows a little of what it's like to be cheated on, after she told what happened to her. But that's ok, right? Because, after all, Regret had the audacity to relay both her feelings as well as Dig's on the subject of death vs infidelity.
> 
> Truly, this place has gone to hell. It's sad, really. And you know what? As bad as infidelity is, there ARE worse things in this world we could deal with!


There's a vast difference between somebody being viciously attacked and somebody being viciously attacked after attacking others first. Ones an innocent victim the other not so much. If a person is walking down the road minding their own business and gets mauled by a grizzly bear, they have my deepest concern and sympathy, however if that same person was poking the bear in the eye with a stick a couple dozen times before hand then that's another matter entirely. One of the unspoken reasons that this place has 'gone to hell' as you aptly put, is because many feel compelled to defend somebody regardless of that persons words/actions simply because they're 'internet buddies'.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

For whatever reason, the concept that has taken root on TAM, is that because a WS cheated, he/she has no rights here that even the most hate filled BS (because of their righteousness) are encouraged to respect. And this is the result.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Nostromo said:


> To nobody in particular. I don't think myself or anybody else here is really in a position to tell anybody that they should feel more pain from losing a kid than being betrayed by their spouse. And if your gut instinct is to lecture that person on why they should feel differently rather than I don't know maybe just giving them a hug and sharing in their sorrow, then perhaps you're not as overflowing with compassion and empathy as you might like to imagine. It's not up to you how somebody else should grieve a loss. For all you know that person believes their child is in heaven waiting for them and they're stuck down here realizing the one person they thought loved them was a total fraud.


Agreed.



Nostromo said:


> As for she whose name shall not be spoken, when your first post in a thread started by a woman whose just found out her husband cheated on her is telling the OP to "grow up" and then you follow that up with dismissing other posters claims that being betrayed was more painful than losing their loved one, it shouldn't be surprising when somebody eventually punches back. Unfortunately some people don't have that built in censor in their head that warns them that they're crossing a line with what they're about to say/write and they go for the jugular.
> The lesson to take away from this is don't be rude and condescending to people who are obviously in a lot of pain.


Eh... I _sort of_ agree. I totally understand why Regret snapped back at DF, and I'd have likely done the same.

I also (again, sort of) agree w/ Regret's initial "grow up" statement, though I'd have likely found a more sympathetic way to say it. Or at least I'd like to think so.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have known Regret here for a couple of years, and I have never found her to be anything but a courteous, respectful, and insightful poster. Until she was pushed beyond the limits that any poster should have to accept. You can only beat a dog so long, until it will turn on you, and like as not, you would be surprised that it did. This is what Sidney meant, about BS's who sh*t on their marriages , then were shocked that their spouses cheated. After what was said to her, is anybody surprised that she responded as she did?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> I have known Regret here for a couple of years, and I have never found her to be anything but a courteous, respectful, and insightful poster. Until she was pushed beyond the limits that any poster should have to accept. You can only beat a dog so long, until it will turn on you, and like as not, you would be surprised that it did. This is what Sidney meant, about BS's who sh*t on their marriages , then were shocked that their spouses cheated. *After what was said to her, is anybody surprised that she responded as she did?*


Not at all. Again, I'd have likely responded very similarly.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I went back and re read the thread from start to finish, as it had a few stops and starts along the way.

My initial advice to OP was to live a good, happy life, as that would be the best revenge.

Regret's "grow up" while similar sentiment to mine, was delivered with a 2x4 to someone who didn't deserve that, from what I read of OP's few posts.

I wonder if a betrayed spouse had delivered the same message that poster would have received the same vitriol.

*********

It's funny this thread died on 8/22, then was resurrected by a new user 16 days later who was indignant over the use of the term "wayward" spouse. Turns out that user had kissed another girl, posted for a day or so, then left. Funny how everything went to hell at that point.

I suspect someone, somewhere is laughing behind their keyboard.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Yes, in my opinion. As well as the opinions of many others. Yea, I guess I am minimizing infidelity in this case...to some. Frankly, I couldn't care less at this point. Too many on here are too quick to jump on a wayward who has the guts to come here and open up, wanting to do whatever he or she can to repair, if possible. Then the lynch mob swoops in and before you know it, the wayward is the worst person in the entire world... because the feelings toward their own spouses have been projected onto THIS person.
> 
> Honestly, TAM is not the site for help anymore. There was a hell of a lot more help when Beo, Morrigan, Dig, and even Mori were on here. Unfortunately, their leaving left the door WIDE OPEN for the negative people to take control. Well done.


Thank you. I don't know if I managed to do this all alone though. A lot of generalizations here, I think. You call me part of a lynch mob?? I don't like negative persons either, most people don't I guess. What I like even less is when people invalidate my feelings, telling me that what I feel is wrong.

But we're getting to the core here, aren't we? Infidelity really isn't that bad, is it? Betrayed and backstabbed people really should just get over it. Their pain is not as bad as X,Y,Z etc. The LS OW/OM forum comes to mind for sure.

You know why I decided to create a profile on TAM a few years back? It was because I got this very strong feeling that the frequent users here in CWI new exactly how I felt, I don't get that feeling anymore, so I don't expect to be around much longer. My fight for personal responsibility and honesty has drained me, too much resistance - fresh blood is needed.

My suggestion to TAM is to strongly consider dividing this section, since neither BS nor WS feel they belong here.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm a BS and I'm starting to feel I don't belong here


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Everyone's emotions are legitimate and above critique.
The actions they choose to take based on those emotions are, almost always, filled with consequences.


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

Rookie4 said:


> For whatever reason, the concept that has taken root on TAM, is that because a WS cheated, he/she has no rights here that even the most hate filled BS (because of their righteousness) are encouraged to respect. And this is the result.


Heres some thoughts on why. 

This is a very difficult topic because its charged with feelings, and feelings are not logical. Many times a betrayed spouse has tried to do all the right things (or thinks s/he has), or doesnt realize there is an issue due to communication problems until infidelity happens.

In the aftermath, feelings reign- anger, depression, and self-doubt howl on repeat in the BS's head. Consider then the frustration of hearing "s/he cheated BECAUSE you did X and Y, and didnt do Z." All of a sudden, this great pain you feel is YOUR FAULT. Human beings who simply "take it" and dont _fight_ with _force_ to argue their position in life will simply be crushed by those who DO try to fight with force. Conflict is where perspectives ascend to the throne of dominant narrative or descend into the abyss of non-importance. 

A BS _must_ state his claim that the WS is a bastard even if its not entirely the WS's fault; to not do so would lead her/him to be dominated by those with the perspective that fault lies with the BS (such as on other forums like Marriage Builders, etc). This is a theme replete throughout the human experience- those who have power (of wealth, of people, of ideological infusion, etc) are those who are willing to strongly put forth their claim to control the asset that gives them power.

Often times the emotional battering of the WS (in mind) is the only form of power the BS has in the situation (since the WS is off in fantasy land and not caring about the BS's struggle anyways). 

Human beings tend to think others think in the same way as their class. For instance, the Japanese are known to be honor driven, kind, and able to withstand calamity on a massive scale with composure (shikata ga nai- look it up); as a result, meeting a person from Japan most of us would immediately expect that person to have these same qualities.

A BS is similar. Suddenly, a WS posting here becomes the same person they experienced infidelity with, or roughly similar.

Regardless, infidelity is betrayal, and it takes selfishness (even if for just a moment) to partake in; that cannot in any way be the fault of the BS. I want to make my point clear: infidelity belongs 100% to the WS, but the relationship itself must be considered seperately, rationally, and judiciously..


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I'm closing the thread.

Given the title it was allowed to stick around much longer than it ever should have.

Ask a collective the best way to exact revenge on your spouse over a betrayal just flat out isn't healthy.

For those who believe that the forum should be split into wayward and betrayed sides, I'll say it again. 

It isn't going to happen.

Infidelity is ugly, tragically common as are the reasons that can precipitate infidelity.

I don't believe infidelity defines who a person is. 

Infidelity in many cases is about a particular time, set of circumstances, and emotional turmoil that is by no means static. It isn't permanent. But it is powerful and can completely undo years of building a worthwhile relationship, be the final stake in the heart of a dying relationship, or even in some cases be the catalyst for rekindling reconciliation and a reinvigorated relationship with your partner ... but I certainly don't recommend having an affair to save your marriage.

Your opinion may differ. That is fair and to be expected, and as long as we can discuss those differences civilly, then all functions as it should. 

Dealing with or talking about it is always bound to raise the emotional stakes.

This concept of being on team betrayed or team wayward seems to have cropped up as of late.

I strongly urge those fomenting that mentality to reconsider what we are trying to accomplish as a community ... and splitting the community isn't it.


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