# Update: The power of my 180



## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Hi everyone,

It's a been a while since my last post so I thought I'd give everyone a quick update. Very quick background: Wife and I live in separate countries temporarily, while away, found a hotel room reservation, confronted both W and the OM while in the room. Wife still hasn't confessed, OM is scared ****less and deployed to Afghanistan. Married 9 years, 3 year old child.

My original posts were filled with anger and desparation when I first found out, but after reading other people's stories, I decided to try a hardcore 180 just for ****'s n' gigs. There has been no fighting, no arguing, no accusations and no real resentment on either end. We want to be as civil as possible for our child.

I commenced to the 180 after returning home from visiting her at the beginning of April. I'm lifting at the gym like never before, I dropped 10lbs of fat and got my jawline back, 6 pack is blazin again. I spend as much time with my son as possible and take him on exciting adventures every weekend. I've made 2 new friends, both female, and my confidence has sky rocketed! 

Something strange is starting to happen, though. My wife is starting to take notice. Check out this email from her and my response back and let me know your thoughts on my 180 so far. 

HER MESSAGE - 

"You know, LS, I am aware that what I've done was wrong and hurtful, but you cannot punish me for it for the rest of our lives. I know it takes time to get over it and marriage counseling may help heal the wounds in our relationship, but the sole reason for me acting up the way I did was loneliness.

I've had a lot of time to think and I've come to conclude that I want you in my life; however, you telling me that I have to prove being worthy of you makes me think that you've become uncertain of things. I'm not trying to blame you for everything, BUT there are two people in this relationship who have contributed to what it has become.

I asked you for help today...just a simple phone call. I reached out to you, but you turned your shoulder to me. The way you've been with me makes me feel punished and it doesn't help the fact that I'm still lonely. You have the support of my family and friends, but LS, I have NOBODY..." 

MY MESSAGE - 

You see my cold shoulder as punishment, but I see it as progress.

In the last two weeks:

- You no longer want to be separated
- You've told me you love me 
- You text more often
- You call more often
- You said you'll do what ever it takes to save our marriage

To me, that's progress and the more progress I see, the more I'll open back up to you...

I'm really not punishing you. You're punishing yourself. You ended our call early, not me. I would have talked to you on the phone for as long as you wanted, hours even. Sure, I didn't help you today with the dog. You're booking your flight soon so just inquire with Condor about their pet options during that time. If you need help choosing from the options they give you, then I'll be glad to help. 

As for the other things you mentioned, I'm not getting into that unless it's in front of a marriage counselor.

As for your "current" state of loneliness, though, I hear you. Just pick up the phone and call me whenever you want. It's 3:30am and I'm writing you. If you're lonely, just call me - any time.."

*****************************

I haven't been mean or rude to her at all since the 180. I just let her make the first move with texts, phone calls and other things. I ignore her a little bit, act uniterested if she tells me something unimportant, and just basically act like I have my own life now and don't need her in it (in a polite way.) Since then, she has literally changed directions and is focusing on our relationship. You can tell by her email that I got her a little pissed, so I have to be sure I don't overdo it. 

Anywho, I'm nudging her back into my court. She thinks I'm being cold, but I'm returning the love in pieces at a time. On the inside, I love her so much, but she doesn't deserve to know that right now, and I don't want to damage my 180 by being weak to her games... She gets here in 25 days and stays for 3 months. More to follow!


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

This is great! Sounds like your 180 is working. Just seems to me that the 180 works better for men than for women. Idk. You are right to throw the marriage counseling thing out there to keep it very focused and almost businesslike. You also acknowledged that it's about opening up. Did she respond yet?


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

She hasn't responded yet, but it hasn't even been 24 hours since I sent it. I have to keep the relationship talk to a minimum with her because as soon as I bring up points, she stonewalls me, gets annoyed and shuts down. It's just not worth the effort while she's in the fog. I could have a more rational conversation with a rock. She'll get her chance to speak in MC, but until then, it's pointless. 

I tried to make it clear that she needs to earn my affection in addition to everything else she damaged. She hasn't confessed, but she isn't getting a free pass from me. My evidence is so clear and until the truth comes out, she can keep feeling sorry for herself. My DS calls it unsupportive, I call it tough love, TAM calls it the 180. 

As for it working better for males than females, not really sure. I know that I'm much smarter and quick witted than my wife, which is definitely making it easier for me to get her where I want her. It's almost been too easy. The hardest part is reading an email from the love of my life who's calling me for help, and me sending an email back telling her tough. Then sitting on my hands the rest of the day trying not to apologize for sounding rude. I've been successful so far.


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

I told my H yesterday that he had too many options.. I was not going to make him or our marriage a priority anymore if he was going to keep us as an option. So I removed myself as an option. Told him it was over.. I was done.

BAM! He says, "but i still love you and want to work it out"

To which i replied, "too late".

Hes moving out next week.. I feel better today. I just wish he would hurry up and get out now. I have a life to live.

You're doing great! Keep it up. Don't give into her games.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

I wish my H would say to me that he loves me and wants to work on our marriage but for now he's still chasing the ow. I think I have seen changes in him since I've done the 180. Yesterday he was at the house with me and followed me from room to room and invited me to go to the park with him and the kids. I opened up a little to him which I think was probably a mistake because he quickly pulled away again. So, back to a hard 180 I go. 
I am happy for you 13. I hope things work out for you.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> I told my H yesterday that he had too many options.. I was not going to make him or our marriage a priority anymore if he was going to keep us as an option. So I removed myself as an option. Told him it was over.. I was done.
> 
> BAM! He says, "but i still love you and want to work it out"
> 
> ...


BAM? I thought I was the only person on earth that still said that. Hm. Anyway, wow, you kicked him out, eh? That's pretty hardcore. What happens when he calls and wants you back?


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

No I'm done.. I'm not going back to playing the game of, "I don't know what I want, my marriage or OW".

I unblocked his phone so now his sister and OW can call him again. I set him free. Called a lawyer, am getting things in motion. I can't do it anymore. I have emotionally removed myself from him. 

Keep in mind my H has not told me he loved me in over 3 years.. so for him to say it now all of a sudden.. just shows me he doesn't really love me, he just is as scared of letting go as i was. I'm not anymore. It's scarier to stay with him, watching over my back all the time.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> No I'm done.. I'm not going back to playing the game of, "I don't know what I want, my marriage or OW".
> 
> I unblocked his phone so now his sister and OW can call him again. I set him free. Called a lawyer, am getting things in motion. I can't do it anymore. I have emotionally removed myself from him.
> 
> Keep in mind my H has not told me he loved me in over 3 years.. so for him to say it now all of a sudden.. just shows me he doesn't really love me, he just is as scared of letting go as i was. I'm not anymore. It's scarier to stay with him, watching over my back all the time.


This is basically where I am at, Lilyana. It's scarier to stay with my H than to let him go. Letting him go is what he needs, it's what I need.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> No I'm done.. I'm not going back to playing the game of, "I don't know what I want, my marriage or OW".
> 
> I unblocked his phone so now his sister and OW can call him again. I set him free. Called a lawyer, am getting things in motion. I can't do it anymore. I have emotionally removed myself from him.
> 
> Keep in mind my H has not told me he loved me in over 3 years.. so for him to say it now all of a sudden.. just shows me he doesn't really love me, he just is as scared of letting go as i was. I'm not anymore. It's scarier to stay with him, watching over my back all the time.


This, Lilyana, is the right decision. 3 years without love, porn addiction, daughter on lap, yea. Good riddance. You deserve so much better.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> This is basically where I am at, Lilyana. It's scarier to stay with my H than to let him go. Letting him go is what he needs, it's what I need.


That's right, Apple, but the difference is, Lilyana actually did it, you haven't, but need to just as bad!


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

AppleDucklings said:


> I wish my H would say to me that he loves me and wants to work on our marriage but for now he's still chasing the ow. I think I have seen changes in him since I've done the 180. Yesterday he was at the house with me and followed me from room to room and invited me to go to the park with him and the kids. I opened up a little to him which I think was probably a mistake because he quickly pulled away again. So, back to a hard 180 I go.
> I am happy for you 13. I hope things work out for you.


You think it was "probably" a mistake? I responded on your thread...


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

The 13th_Floor said:


> This, Lilyana, is the right decision. 3 years without love, porn addiction, daughter on lap, yea. Good riddance. You deserve so much better.


Thank you  I'd like to think I deserve better to. We all deserve better than all this pain and agony. 

I really hope things work out for you. Keep up with the 180 it seems to be working.. and I don't mean for her, I mean for you. You are becoming a healthier person, mentally as well as physically. It's hard to remove your emotions, but sometimes when you do, it makes things so much easier, and clearer. 

And Apple, you know you deserve better! One day we will find someone who will love and adore us for the sexy b*tches we are! lol

Oh, on a side note.. i watched the movie "It's Complicated" last night, about a woman whos divorced, her H left her for a younger woman. Anyway she ends up having an affair with her ex H. I found it funny.. and thought.. what a good way to get the OW back. But then had the immediate thought of vomitting if my H ever touched me again.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

The 13th_Floor said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> It's a been a while since my last post so I thought I'd give everyone a quick update. Very quick background: Wife and I live in separate countries temporarily, while away, found a hotel room reservation, confronted both W and the OM while in the room. Wife still hasn't confessed, OM is scared ****less and deployed to Afghanistan. Married 9 years, 3 year old child.
> 
> ...


Excellent. You've proven to her that you have VALUE as a man and that if she's to dumb to see it, then another woman - better than her - will.

You might want to check out Just Let Them Go.

Keep us updated on your sitch.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> Thank you  I'd like to think I deserve better to. We all deserve better than all this pain and agony.
> 
> I really hope things work out for you. Keep up with the 180 it seems to be working.. and I don't mean for her, I mean for you. You are becoming a healthier person, mentally as well as physically. It's hard to remove your emotions, but sometimes when you do, it makes things so much easier, and clearer.
> 
> ...


I do deserve better. He sucks. He has to work 3rd shift tonight so thank goodness he will not be sleeping at the house tonight but he will be there all day. I'm going to have to find something to do until he leaves for the night so I dont have to be around him at all. Cant wait til he moves out.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

LonelyNLost said:


> This is great! Sounds like your 180 is working. *Just seems to me that the 180 works better for men than for women. * Idk. You are right to throw the marriage counseling thing out there to keep it very focused and almost businesslike. You also acknowledged that it's about opening up. Did she respond yet?


I disagree. I've seen many women on this forum try the 180, but many of them also give in the minute there's a positive impact. I think women feel pressured to return every nice gesture. Notice how 13 isn't giving in just because she says she wants to work on the relationship? A lot of woman would have screamed, "IT WORKED!" and went back to the old way. 13 realizes that her words might not match her actions, so he's taking things slow, waiting for REAL signs that she's back on track. He's giving bits of affection when it's warranted. That's how it's done. 

If more women would stick to the 180, we'd see more success.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

apple....you have weekend off, drive on up and we'll have a girls weekend hahaha.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

WhereAmI said:


> I disagree. I've seen many women on this forum try the 180, but many of them also give in the minute there's a positive impact. I think women feel pressured to return every nice gesture. Notice how 13 isn't giving in just because she says she wants to work on the relationship? A lot of woman would have screamed, "IT WORKED!" and went back to the old way. 13 realizes that her words might not match her actions, so he's taking things slow, waiting for REAL signs that she's back on track. He's giving bits of affection when it's warranted. That's how it's done.
> 
> If more women would stick to the 180, we'd see more success.


I think you are right. I was finding myself "falling" yesterday as he did give me some attention. I realize I am still vulnerable and I really need to be strong.


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

oh oh oh can i come? I'll bring my kids.. all the kids can play together!


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

paramore said:


> apple....you have weekend off, drive on up and we'll have a girls weekend hahaha.


wouldnt that be too much fun! I wish it was possible, but hopefully we could work something out for the summer :smthumbup:


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> oh oh oh can i come? I'll bring my kids.. all the kids can play together!


I'll pick you up on my way!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

that would be a friggin blast!!! Sodak is pretty in the summer. We could go fishing, something I loved to do as a kid, but haven't gotten to go the whole time we've been married, cuz he didn't like it. Guess it's time for me to borrow one of my dads fishing poles soon.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

paramore said:


> that would be a friggin blast!!! Sodak is pretty in the summer. We could go fishing, something I loved to do as a kid, but haven't gotten to go the whole time we've been married, cuz he didn't like it. Guess it's time for me to borrow one of my dads fishing poles soon.


Fishing would be fun. I shall pretend every worm is my husband when I bait the hook.


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

you're in SD para?


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Ladies, either PM each other your plans for a weekend rendezvous, or I'm going to invite myself and show up naked.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

WhereAmI said:


> I disagree. I've seen many women on this forum try the 180, but many of them also give in the minute there's a positive impact. I think women feel pressured to return every nice gesture. Notice how 13 isn't giving in just because she says she wants to work on the relationship? A lot of woman would have screamed, "IT WORKED!" and went back to the old way. 13 realizes that her words might not match her actions, so he's taking things slow, waiting for REAL signs that she's back on track. He's giving bits of affection when it's warranted. That's how it's done.
> 
> If more women would stick to the 180, we'd see more success.


Thank you so much, these are words I need to hear...


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

The 13th_Floor said:


> Ladies, either PM each other your plans for a weekend rendezvous, or I'm going to invite myself and show up naked.


:rofl: sorry for the threadjack.. 

I still think your doing awesome! 

It might be cold and rainy up here this weekend.. naked might not be the best idea...


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

The 13th_Floor said:


> Ladies, either PM each other your plans for a weekend rendezvous, or I'm going to invite myself and show up naked.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

LOL!!!! 13th, that is funny sorry we did kind of get off track. Yeah I am in SD lol, I just pm'd you. Ok, had to add on here, btw 13th, I know what apple and lily look like, we are all three pretty attractive women HAH!!!! Ok, sorry I am done now.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

I'll let it slide this time, but I if you do it again, I'll pull a 180 on your ass...


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Hahaha!!!!!


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

OoOoOoO


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

The 13th_Floor said:


> I'll let it slide this time, but I if you do it again, I'll pull a 180 on your ass...


That made me laugh out loud AND brought tears to my eyes!


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

She never responded back to my last message. I know she read it because she's been posting things on Facebook where I sent her the message. Honestly, I do want her to respond, but no response is better than a bad one. 

My son had a recital today at his pre-school. I recorded it and will send it to the lady tonight. Since it's regarding our son, it won't make me look needy, but it will force her to respond in a positive way despite her less than positive email earlier. 

I'm trying to use what little ammunition I have without looking desparate for a response. Update soon!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

We all are rooting for you


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

Just out of curiosity- Is the 180 considered only for those trying to R? I don't know if you call my total indifference to my WW the 180, but what happens when a WS doesn't bite? Now you're really ****ed, right?


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

ahhhmaaaan! said:


> Just out of curiosity- Is the 180 considered only for those trying to R? I don't know if you call my total indifference to my WW the 180, but what happens when a WS doesn't bite? Now you're really ****ed, right?


It depends. I lost a lot of confidence in myself after seeing the the doucher my wife threw our marriage down the toilet for, it wasn't pretty. I spent the first month blaming myself for what happened and tried so hard to get my mind around why and how this transpired. It wasn't working.

I'm trying this because I know my wife will bite and because if my 4 year old son was old enough to understand, he would want his dad to at least try for the sake of him. Dude, the OM has red hair, red eye lashes, red eye brows, red everything (yep, probably red pubes too,) disgusting. He's also only 20 years old, a private in the Airforce, 6'2' and 140lbs give or take 5. Why is this relevant? My 50% of what screwed up our marriage must have made my wife temporarily insane to have slept with a complete jackass. 

I'm 30, Ex-Army, the whole package, right... What the f*ck was she thinking? She wasn't... 

I'm using the 180 to explore my options. If she bites, and she has, I'll know that the chance of reconciliation will be possible when her head clears. I'll also have the chance of getting her to fall in love me all over again and throw her ass to the curb to get her back if I still feel bitter after all of this. It just depends on what her reasoning was and how she eventualy chooses to apologize and make things right. If she doesn't put in enough effort, **** her.

Ahhmann, first off, your name sucks. It's a pain in the ass to determine how many "a's" and "h's" to use.  Listen, I've read your story a while ago. You don't take any **** and you threw your wife out. Awesome. I commend you. I always thought of you as being on the "other side" (anti-reconciliation,) like I was. Your 180 is different, however. You're giving your WW absolutely no chance to earn anything back that she lost. 

My goal of pulling this 180 is to give me more options depending on the success of it. If it's successful, I'll make a decision to stay or go. If not, I can walk away knowing that I tried for my son.


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

"Ahhmann, first off, your name sucks."

I like you, bro. You're a strait shooter... you gotta respect that. And yeah... I'm "anti-R" because of the fact that my wife opened her legs to anther man. At least you caught them before it(PA) happened. But let me ask you: "I'll also have the chance of getting her to fall in love me all over again and throw her ass to the curb to get her back if I still feel bitter after all of this." Is this a true R if this is what your rationalizing? What your telling me is that your weighing your options, rather than REALLY "feel'in it." Please, don't take offense to my reply.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

To each their own boys, I respect both of your decisions. I know ahh has read my story, not sure if you have 13, I am in a holding pattern of sorts....I am a FDS, working on a 180, second or third day in. I am open to R because I committed the deed as well, I am no better than him despite he had 2 EA's, one EA/PA, and one sort of EA, I had an EA/PA. We both lost each other, didn't listen to the other when we cried out for help, but I have told him if I discover anything else, or any communication, he is out until he can afford to file or he is 100% committed to working on this. I won't be the one to leave it. I figure this, if he wants out, he can do it, I won't be the one to give up on our family. If I discover that he has restarted an EA, I am done....can't afford a lawyer now, but I will not stand for the disrespect, I will consider this marriage over if he has actually "looked" outside the marriage yet again. 

I should explain....if he tries to contact these women, and they don't respond, then I will wait, because if they had any brains in their head they will stay away, he is still in the fog. If I find that that the other women respond at all, yeah, I will be single...I am a good woman, I have my faults, but I am a good hard loving woman, good old farm girl here, if he can't come around, it's his loss.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

ahhhh, I am totally offended by your post...LOL just kidding, hope you guys are having a good evening.


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## blisswalker (Apr 25, 2011)

You seem to be on the right track. 




> You see my cold shoulder as punishment, but I see it as progress.
> 
> In the last two weeks:
> 
> ...


This is not something you should be explaining to her. Leave this stuff out next time. She may now second guess her natural instincts for a while now. But no major damage. Never explain her good actions based on your actions of staying away or her view of punishment. It undermines it. 

To be more clear, you seem to be putting in actions to get her back, but remember that your actions work due to you actually making your self better. If this is the case then you wouldnt be sending an e-mail like. What this e-mail kind of says to her is i'm changing cause of you. Your change needs to come from you and not her to get her back or to just be attractive to a woman. The mistake most make when getting someone back is going back to their old habits which leads to another break up.

Whatever you do, do not make out that your changing for the better for her if that is what your doing. It wont work. 

Next time write an e-mail and wait a few hours before sending, you will be surprise at how better the response is just by waiting.

I have no doubt she will want you back. Then its just about if you want her back. Just keep on learning and understand that its all about you!


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

ahhhmaaaan! said:


> Is this a true R if this is what your rationalizing? What your telling me is that your weighing your options, rather than REALLY "feel'in it." Please, don't take offense to my reply.


First off, I'm pretty damn sure my wife spread her legs in that hotel room. She just hasn't confessed yet. Even if I walked in on them while in the act, she'd have probably been so fogged down that she'd tell me I was hallucinating. 

Yea, I'm weighing my options essentially. I'm not REALLY feeling sh*t for her at the moment. I feel the exact same way as you. Your wife let another man have what you've treasured. The thought sickens us both. I'm not sure if I can ever get over that, and I'm sure you feel the same. Even if after all of this, our love gets stronger 10 fold, she still let another man (boy) take what was reserved for me. Sickening.

The thing is, I can't predict how I'll feel down the road, man. If she TRULY shows remorse and explains what made her do what she did, I might or might NOT be able to live with it. I just don't know, but it's an option I'd like to leave open (for my son.) 

I think you and I are on the same page, minus the kid. Seriously. Check out my post "Does taking back a cheating spouse make you weak." I hear you, bro. I do.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I feel that on both sides 13, I can understand what I did sickens my H, I walked in and actually saw it, and it happened when I wasn't around. I can empathize with my H, I have bad dreams every night, esp since his last EA lives but mere miles away and they were talking about "hanging out" this whoar is his hs gf, and has always longed for him. She has a history of cheating loooong one. 13 I get the remorse thing, I am hardcore repentant, and offering full transparency, he's just not choosing to take it. Boys, taking back a DS isn't weak, it just depends on how you do it if you so choose to, well you are grown men, I shouldn't call you boys, no one will think less of you either way you go. It all depends on what you can handle, I know that I am a stronger person than my husband, just take it one day at a time.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

blisswalker said:


> You seem to be on the right track.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know, I actually knew this after I sent it, but it was too late. I hear you, though. I'll definitely keep your advice in mind.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

The 13th_Floor said:


> She never responded back to my last message. I know she read it because she's been posting things on Facebook where I sent her the message. Honestly, I do want her to respond, but no response is better than a bad one.
> 
> My son had a recital today at his pre-school. I recorded it and will send it to the lady tonight. Since it's regarding our son, it won't make me look needy, but it will force her to respond in a positive way despite her less than positive email earlier.
> 
> I'm trying to use what little ammunition I have without looking desparate for a response. Update soon!


**** it, I changed my mind. I'll send her the video a few days from now, not tonight. I run ****, not her...


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

time to go to apples thread....fun time....


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

paramore said:


> time to go to apples thread....fun time....


Yea, cheat on me with Apple's thread...


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

*giggle* no me and apple and lily took our threadjacking to another thread, it is funny as heck. I will find the link for you, I think it said so glad I found you guys. We were just being stupid last night, all in a good mood for once lol.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

paramore said:


> *giggle* no me and apple and lily took our threadjacking to another thread, it is funny as heck. I will find the link for you, I think it said so glad I found you guys. We were just being stupid last night, all in a good mood for once lol.


All 3 of you are still a bunch of thread jacking *****s, but I love ya anyway!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Nooo, I am being good tonight lol, but go and read them, it involved toothless humpbacks and drool and ponykegs hehe.


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

Like I told you... "I like a strait shooter." Yeah we are in the same kind of predicament, minus the kid. I really admire that you are able to "stick it out," like many here, such as paramore and others. You say that your wife hasn't totally admitted to "everything..." WOW! You really got some guts. This is the ULTIMATE betrayal, though. It's like watching a movie, or something and the "twist ending" just leaves your mouth agape, right. Its just so incomprehensible that it defies logic. I still find myself shaking my head at the low-life she chose to cheat on me with. At first, I felt like an inch tall; now I just feel sorry she didn't "affair-up" somehow- At least make it worth you while, right. Why is it that they don't realize how good of a catch we are till "after the fact." JESUS... if you were going to **** up our"only" status, it should have been for someone like Vincent Chase or something.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

The 13th_Floor and ahhhmaaaan!,

Gentlemen. From what I read of the 180, it is a personal empowerment protocol or set of rules for the betrayed spouse, not a manipulation tool to bring back the wayward spouse - that is usually a common side-effect. It is powerful because it sends a clear message to the wayward spouse that you are moving on with your life with or without her.

In my case, my great friend - who had gone through this situation many years ago - gave me solid advise that is captured in my thread *Just Let Them Go*.

Like ahhhmaaaan!, I too said NO to any reconciliation to my then remorseful, pleading, sobbing wife. A decision I don't regret but at the time hurt like someone had ripped one of my arms off. I truly loved that woman but when it comes to infidelity, love is not enough.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

ahhhmaaaan! said:


> Why is it that they don't realize how good of a catch we are till "after the fact." JESUS... if you were going to **** up our"only" status, it should have been for someone like Vincent Chase or something.


Agreed, which is why I said she must have been "temporarily" insane. The situation that led your wife and mine to cheat are very different, but something made them do it. In my case, I think it's worth looking into. In yours, you tell me...


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

With all do respect... if it wasn't Vinny Chase, I don't want to hear her excuse. Not that I condone infidelity in any sense, but gimme something I can work with. Thanks for listening, bud. Gotta go watch some UFC... YEAH!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

As I said to ahhh and 13, I totally see your pov, we are all different people, I hope you both find peace, lord knows I am trying to.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

ahhhmaaaan! said:


> With all do respect... if it wasn't Vinny Chase, I don't want to hear her excuse. Not that I condone infidelity in any sense, but gimme something I can work with. Thanks for listening, bud. Gotta go watch some UFC... YEAH!


You and my eldest would get along quite well, Brock Lesnar is from my home state, about an hour from where I am lol


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

ahhhmaaaan! said:


> With all do respect... if it wasn't Vinny Chase, I don't want to hear her excuse. Not that I condone infidelity in any sense, but gimme something I can work with. Thanks for listening, bud. Gotta go watch some UFC... YEAH!


If you looked like Corky from Life Goes On, she would have screwed Vinny Chase, but your wife didn't stray because of looks. She strayed because of some other need that she wasn't getting. For example, if she was craving "conversation" that she wasn't getting from you, this other ****wad gave it to her and the sex came along with it. I'm just saying. If I showed you a picture of my wife and this OM, you'd be dumbfounded. 

My wife is a fox. The OM... is seriously Corky from Life Goes On, my God my wife's a ****. See? There those thoughts go again, ****! 

Go GSP...


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

I'm from Cali, so my boy Nick Diaz, Diego Sanchez, and Cain Velasquez are our boys. Brock is cool, but Cain beat his ASS! Thanks for the change of pace paramore- You're alright.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

thanks ahhhh, I try to be cool, but I gotta have love for the state homeboy, and 13....my husband knows I am a fox...the women he did whatever with don't do me justice....lol.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

ahhhmaaaan! said:


> I'm from Cali, so my boy Nick Diaz, Diego Sanchez, and Cain Velasquez are our boys. Brock is cool, but Cain beat his ASS! Thanks for the change of pace paramore- You're alright.


So, how's your boy Nick Diaz doing, lol..


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

My wife still hasn't responded since the last email reply I sent her. It's not that she's involved in something else or preoccupied in any way other than studying, it's because she's a stubborn b*tch who doesn't understand why I'm being so unreasonable...

She honestly thinks I should just forget about the hotel room incident and move on to work on our marriage. As P-Diddy would say, "eh eh," doesn't work like that. There's no way in hell she's getting off that easy. 

So, another day rolls by with no contact and with every passing day, it gets harder not to contact her, but I have to remain intact, 180 in mind, I run sh*t. She'll eventually crack and probably call and b*tch about why I never call or SMS her. I'll simply play it off as being busy with work, our child, whatever. This is one battle I'm not losing...


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

As Rob Schnieders cajun character says in many of Adam Sandlers movies, "You can doooo eeeeeet!!!!" lol


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

She called me today mad that I didn't call her back after she ended our phone call early 3 days ago. I told her that I have a life here to manage as a single father and she needs to take responsibility when things get out of her control. She doesn't want me treating her like a father, so I simply stated, "handle it." 

She then went on to tell me she feels as if I don't want to work on the marriage. I told her that there's only so much we can work on until we go to marriage counseling. She said she understands. We then went on to talk about her flight here, and I assisted in getting the information she requested a few days earlier i.e. I gave her a tiny piece of help for her showing her dedication towards the marriage. 

We ended the call nicely, no "I love you's, but I can tell she wanted me to say it. Check this out...

When I came to visit her in march, I met one of her "guy" friends that she met through one of her nursing school friends. He's a huge dork, 28 and just joined the Airforce. He seemed alright, reserved, I got him to laugh a few times over dinner, and he seemed to have respect for me. My wife later told me that he knows about her marriage problems (she still doesn't understand WHY it's NOT a good idea to tell another man about her problems.)


Here's where it gets good. After I left back to Europe, she told me she was sitting in the passenger seat of her friend's car, and this dude was in the back seat stroking her back while they drove. My wife leaned forward and later on told him it was making her uncomfortable. He got quiet, embarassed and she hasn't spoken to him since (a month.) 

These are the kinds of guys I need to show my wife how good she has it. My wife considered this guy a friend, an open ear, and he tried to take advantage of her. My response, "what a friend, and this guy had the nerve to look down on me." She said she knows, and called him a hypocrite. The more *******s she meets, the better I look.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Are you guys going to do marriage counselling? 

As for the "friend"--she needs to cut it off w/ him completely and should NOT be telling him your marriage problems.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Are you guys going to do marriage counselling?
> 
> As for the "friend"--she needs to cut it off w/ him completely and should NOT be telling him your marriage problems.


MC is scheduled for the beginning of June just after she flys here. She's definitely on board with going. This "friend" she's known since before I left and they only hang out when she's with her girlfriend (the 3 of them together.) There wasn't anything to really break off, he was always the 3rd wheel when she was doing things with her other friend. 

As for telling other guys about her marriage problems, this has happened with 1 and a half guys. The OM and her friend's friend (the dork I mentioned above who's no longer in the picture.) Still, though, she shouldn't be telling anyone about her marriage problems, even if it's a woman, if they're within 100 feet of men...

She making progress, and I think she's starting to get the "give and get rewarded" aspect. She knows that I won't crawl to her or take the bait if she tried to argue.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Update:

I'm still on the 180, however, it's been getting harder because now she's texting me 50 times a day or more. The conversations are about normal things like our son, her studies, our hobbies, but absolutely ZERO talk about our relationship. So far so good. She's definitely, or should I say "clearly" giving me the attention I was craving when I first got here. 

Now, this is awesome. I'm loving it. The problem I'm facing now is that she's talking a ****load and might get pissed if I don't respond. So, what I've been doing is giving her short answers. If she tells me about how bad her having to study sucks, I ignore it. If she tells me how hot it is outside, I ignore it. Now, if she tells me about how she can't wait until she gets here so we can XYZ, I'll respond with something like, "yup, me too." 

She's also dropping indirect hints that piss me the hell off, but I ignore those texts too. For example, she joined boot camp so she can stay in shape and get out of the house. Fine. Here's the thing, though. Today, I get a text saying, "while my trainer was taping me he asked why I joined bootcamp." Her response, "because I needed a hobby." I ignored this text completely. Why did it piss me off? 

Simple, her boot camp trainer indirectly told her that she had a nice body. Why else would he ask her that? She's 120lbs, 5'6' and very attractive. Another unprofessional trainer, co-worker, boss, friend ECT trying to get a piece.. Go figure. If my wife was fat, there's no way in hell he would have asked her that. No way. 

So, like I said, I ignored the message, even though it pissed me off. The old me (pre-affair) would have asked her why this and why she told him that ECT, but that's the 180 for you. I can't act concerned, jealous, needy or weak. I WANT to rip this guys head off already and ***** slap my wife, but oh well. Also, her response EASILY opens the door for him to say, "why do you need a hobby?" Her response (possibly,) because I'm all alone and my husband is 6k miles away. His response, "lets hang out!" (This didn't happen, but could have)

You see, it's a struggle. I hate having to put up with this ****. Why couldn't my wife just say, "I joined to stay in shape, and I like staying active." That would leave a lot less open than her saying, "I needed a hobby," i.e. I'm bored, alone, depressed blah blah ****ing blah.. 

Anyway, my plan was to stick to the 180 and that's what I'm doing. She messaged me 20 minutes ago and I haven't got up to check my phone yet. I like making her wait. It works.

Just a quick recap, since I started the 180 on March 27th my wife has:

- Asked to not be separated anymore.
- Blows up my phone with text messages daily at ALL hours.
- Asks me if I've met any women (sure have)
- Tells me she loves/misses me
- Agreed to MC

So, looks pretty good, right? I think she wants me back now, right? WRONG! If I give in and show her my love again, she'll be out of here. It's that simple. I've read so many posts here about the 180 and I've learned from so many mistakes. First and formost, beware of false hope. Back in February she actually told me that she didn't care if our marriage worked out or not. What an inconsiderate, selfish ******* thing to say (behind those stars it said a.s.s.h.o.l.e) It was only the fog talking, thank Christ. 

Like I said, just an update. I'm here, she's slowly snapping out of it and the 180 is working in my favor even though we're 6k miles apart. **** yea.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

much win has been detected in this sector. well played.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> much win has been detected in this sector. well played.


Many thanks... Update to follow


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Happy for you, 13. I wish you all the best


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Update:

So far the 180 is still working in my favor. My wife is still texting me through out the day vs. hardly ever during her affair. I've yet to initiate a text or phone call first. She even texts me at 3:30am just to tell me she had a good work out. It's weird that she's being transparent when I haven't even requested it yet.

So, she gets to Europe in 10 days and stays for 3 months. This is a very critical time for me because unlike most of you, my wife and I are living in different countries. I left in October of 2010 and within 3 months, the affair happened and I've been fighting for my marriage through technology. It's been crazy.

My plan when she comes is this:

I'm going to continue the 180 and tread very lightly until she notices now that we're together physically vs. over the phone or via SMS. Once I see that she's CLEARLY back in our marriage and wants to fight to save it, only then will I take her to a comfortable place and talk to her.

When I say talk to her, what I mean is, I'm going to try and get her to confess. The plan is to get her comfortable to the point where talk of our relationship doesn't bother or push her away like it used to. I'll take this part very slowly. Once that happens, I'm going to tell her that the only chance that our marriage has to survive is by her confessing that she had sex in that hotel room. I'll tell her that I won't stay in a marriage that's based on a lie and or uncertainties. If she tells me she didn't have sex with him, but has no way to prove it, I'll politely let her know that a polygraph test can set her free and I already have one scheduled. 

I'll make it very clear that I can and will try to forgive her if she just confesses so I can clear any doubt in my mind. There is no other way that I can move forward in our marriage until this is out in the open. If she confesses, I'll continue the 180, keep the relationship talk to a minimum as usual and commence to marriage counciling. Of course, full transparency will also be expected.

As for the OM, should she confess, I'll have her write the NC letter and send it to him in my presence. Later, on my own, I will call him and tell him that if he ever trys to get in contact with my wife again, I'm going to send all of my proof to JAG and his unit commander. To let him know I'm serious about this, I'm going to send my proof to his mother (I have her email address.) Once she finds out, hopefully she'll let him know and rip him a new one. I'm more than sure he'll understand that I'm not ****ng around and getting his family involved should prove it... 

I've already talked to this kid on the phone and my wife confirmed that he was horrified. I doubt that once she confesses and I contact him, in addition to notifying his family, that he'll try to contact her again. He's in way over his head and knows it,however, I will still remain vigilant and probably **** with him here and there to let him know I'm watching. 

Other than that, I feel pretty great. I just scored a huge town house here in her country and move in June 1st. My son is speaking two languages and I've made some great friends. All in all, the 180 has saved me mentally, emotionally and physically. 

* In February, my wife told me to stick my money and love for her up my ass. In May, she mentioned renewing our vows in her home country once she moves here for good... Weird. 

Update to follow...


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Good luck with everything!


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

You are the man with the plan alright. A pillar of strength.:smthumbup:


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## moeman (Aug 12, 2010)

Can you please post the link to 180 procedure? I couldn't find it using keywords on the search engine of this website.

Thanks,
M.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

while I hold no hope for my marriage at this time, maybe just maybe I can get to this point someday.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Don't have the link however below:



> Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
> 
> No frequent phone calls.
> 
> ...


."


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

moeman said:


> Can you please post the link to 180 procedure? I couldn't find it using keywords on the search engine of this website.
> 
> Thanks,
> M.


M it's here http://talkaboutmarriage.com/self-help-marriage-relationship-programs/18671-180.html

Bob


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## Anonymous_Female (Apr 16, 2011)

Best of luck and continued success!


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Hi, AF -

Read my latest update on the previous page as to what I'm planning on doing once she arrives. By the way, bis du Deutsch oder deine mann? Thank you for your kind words. I'll update as soon as my wife gets here, 10 days 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anonymous_Female (Apr 16, 2011)

The 13th_Floor said:


> Hi, AF -
> 
> Read my latest update on the previous page as to what I'm planning on doing once she arrives. By the way, bis du Deutsch oder deine mann? Thank you for your kind words. I'll update as soon as my wife gets here, 10 days
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh I'm sorry, I managed to skim right over that part. I was still marvelling at that point about her telling you about her trainer...my husband does sh!t like that too to piss me off. Not in terms of other women giving him attention, but he always works into the conversation how much fun he's having without me: learning to ride a motorcycle, riding in a glider, etc.  I don't ask, he just volunteers that info...and then I ignore it. 

Sounds like a great plan! It is so encouraging to me that you seem to be doing so well on a personal level with it. I have detached myself enough at this point too that I'm not even sure sometimes whether he's worth the effort either, but regardless we will go to MC and see. 

And we're both American, lol. The OW is German. He's Army, in the 173rd.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

13 I wish you all the strength that a continued successful 180 will require. I'm pulling for you.


Best of luck.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Update:

So, my wife has been here visiting for almost 2 weeks. On the way to work this morning I let go and told her I don't believe her word about nothing happening between her and the OM and told her my reasons why. Her response, "f*ck you!" We sat quiet in the car for about 5 minutes and I told her that the only way our marriage will have a chance is if she admits the truth. I also told her that I would tell no one and try my hardest to work on the marriage. Then, it happened.

"We kissed." That's what she said and she wouldn't admit anything else. So, at this point, it's clear that she had an EA and PA, even though the sex hasn't been confirmed. She said that she didn't want to take it further than that, but I know it's a lie. She slept in a hotel with him for 3 nights, come on, it's so obvious. 

I told her that she had an affair with a 20 year old BOY and that she cheated on me. She agreed, sais she feels bad, guilty and so on. No tears from her or me, no sorry, no nothing. Just straight up guilt of being caught. I got out of the car and headed to work, no words were spoken afterwards. 

I'm going to stick with the original plan and resume the 180. At this point, after what has happened, I doubt we're going to last. I got the confession I was waiting for (half truth,) and don't see how our marriage could ever be the same. She's tainted, lied, cheated on myself and her son and there's nothing she can do to take it back.

I will call the OM in a few days to tell him she confessed and that if he ever contacts her again, I'm taking my evidence to his unit commander as I already have his name, unit, email address and base. I will also recite his mother's home address and sibling's names to scare him, then email his mother and family members letting them know what happened so he knows I'm not f*cking around. 

As for her, I don't know how she feels about us so there's no point in writing a NC letter right now; however, my predictions of that moment were a spot on. I don't feel as bad as I thought, I didn't cry, ask why or ask for details. The 180 I've been pulling for the past 2 months has helped me prepare myself for her confession mentally and emotionally. I am in complete control of what happens next and whether we stay married or divorce, I'll be perfectly fine. 

Thank you all for your help and insight thus far. 

Update to follow...


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

This looks horribly familiar. On discovery of the full extent of her EA after 2 weeks she left the house and went to the OM and it has been PA ever since.

That was over 2 months ago and no sign of her "waking up" 

I decided that after all the lies and total lack of feeling of any sort for me or her children has made the relationship irreparable.

A hard 180 helped me to let go fast. I implemented full NC and after a month she has stopped trying to involve me in her daily drama. This is an odd feeling to be free of it. All that adrenalin not running though my system has left me a bit flat. 
Good luck. It is awful to see the person you love become someone else.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

ing said:


> Good luck. It is awful to see the person you love become someone else.


I agree. The fact that she did the unimaginable tells me that she's not as mentally strong and faithful as I thought she was. If a 20 year old can manipulate her, anyone can. My youngest brother is also 20 and he's a dumb*ss. She's shown me a huge flaw in her character and morals and it's not something I can looks past, not even for a second. 

If you look at the whole picture, the pain of betrayal she caused is easily identifiable - 

Met her in Europe when i was a soldier, married her in the states and 9 years later she f*cks another soldier. I was the only American she was ever supposed to be with, but no more and never again. Like I said, she's forever tainted. Biotch...


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Didn't she drive 5 hours to meet up with her OM and spend 3 days in a hotel with him? All so they could just kiss? Going on a long road trip to meet an AP and spend 3 days in a hotel shows absolutely clear intent to have a PA. She actually had the nerve to be angry when you told her you didn't believe her unbelievable story! No guilt or even remorse there for sure.

As for OM, I really don't believe that much would come of exposing him to his squadron other than a Letter of Reprimand and the MOST. They are more likely to take action against him if you were his dependent wife or if it was with another military member. Upon receiving your letter, his squadron commander would turn it over to this 1st Sgt, who would then call this airman to his office and give him some stern counselling and a warning, perhaps even a letter of counselling. They would also take into considering that it was your wife that drove many hours to go and meet him. Sorry, but that's the way I see it would go down.

As far as your WW goes, you and her are basically separated, and she probably feels like she can do what she wants while you are in Germany and she is in the states. She sufferers hardly any consequences for her actions because she knows she has that "she's the mother of my child" thing over you. There's nothing keeping her from getting another OM if she so chooses...if she hasn't already.

In the end, you didn't get the full disclosure you were waiting for, you got the Trickle Truth lie. And she got angry with you for not believing the lie. It's up to you how you want to proceed.


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## Anonymous_Female (Apr 16, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear things have not gone better in the relationship. Glad to see that you are so strong personally though and good luck with the continued 180! Hope it brings you happiness no matter what the status of the marriage.


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## Lazarus (Jan 17, 2011)

Wishing you what you want from all of this 13th, but just remember, don't go too far that she feels even more neglected. She said she was lonely that means you neglected her in the past. Right? 

Too hard with all this intenet advice stuff and you could blow it all. Remember, it is what you want out of this that matters. It's a delicate line so make sure you balance everything for your particular situation, not too hard but. not too soft, or needy. Be careful, its a fine line, it is not a game. It is your future. I noticed she mentioned " our lives" . That's good.

Wishing you all the best of luck 13th.

BTW. Why 13th floor. Any significance? Just curious.


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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

Just wanted to say not all German women are cheaters  ....

I'm a 100% faithful German (ex-)wife to an American....

13th_Floor....I hope she'll realize what she has in you and it will all work out !!!!!


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm not exactly sure why some posters feel the need to say that the confession I've gotten was not what I was looking for and so on. She told me they kissed, and that's all I needed to hear at that point because it's enough to deem her a cheater. My wife and I have been extremely rational and civil about this situation which was my plan all along; just read the beginning of this thread and you'll see that everything I envisioned is "slowly" falling into place. When I'm ready to get the full confession, when I'm mentally and emotionally strong enough to hear those words, I'll get them, but now is not the time...

Update - 

My wife and I are getting along just fine. We've been busy working on our new house, painting, cleaning and such so we haven't mentioned the cheating since her initial confession; however, it's eating at me now. I need to move forward in getting what I want/need out of this. 

This next part is very important and I need you guys to understand this without being judgemental of my DS. She has not apologized or shown any remorse and we're less than a week from her trickle truthed confession. She hasn't shown remorse yet because, I imagine, I didn't break down. If she saw my tears, my anger or hurt, I think only then she'll realize the capacity of the hurt she's caused. 

I've been taking this situation very slowly as to not push her away or get her defensive. The day after her confession, I asked her if she realized that this was not even remotely close to being over as far as her cheating, she agreed. I also told her that all contact with the OM must cease for life and with no chance of saying good bye, she also agreed.

When I engauge in telling her things like this, she doesn't hesitate or get defensive. She does show a bit of anger when I don't want to hold her hand or kiss her, but she knows why and can't say anything.

At this point, my next step is to have her type the NC letter and email it to the OM, then block him on Facebook, email and change her mobile number (we don't have internet yet so that's why it hasn't already been done). I've yet to ask for her passwords as it's too early and I don't want to risk my progress too soon. 

I'm planning on a date night (love kindler) for this weekend. I'm going to have her read a word document from Affair care that explains how affairs start. I'm doing this because Affair Care's story about how affairs start mirrors mine, and I think it puts both parties at blame as to what led to the affair. She needs to understand the capacity of what she did, why and how to avoid another. 

Our relationship is very broken right now, but the steps that I've taken thus far have been a spot on in leading our marriage to reconciliation. My worry is, though, does she really want to be with me? She stopped the affair, ceased all contact, but why? Is it because she felt bad, guilty or got sick of the guy? Will there be another? These are the questions that only her actions will tell.

Oh and yes, my wife is German, but that's completely irrelevant in all cases. Our relationship has nothing to do with her wanting a green card, money or anything of the like so why people are mentioning that is beyond me. In other news, we taught our son how to ride a bike on Sunday without training wheels which he didn't fall even once : ) 

Someone asked the significance of my name - Most hotels/elevators don't have a 13th floor because it's bad luck. Since February 18th of 2011, D-Day, I feel as if I've been living on the 13th floor. 

Update to follow...


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Didn't she drive 5 hours to meet up with her OM and spend 3 days in a hotel with him? All so they could just kiss? Going on a long road trip to meet an AP and spend 3 days in a hotel shows absolutely clear intent to have a PA. She actually had the nerve to be angry when you told her you didn't believe her unbelievable story! No guilt or even remorse there for sure.
> 
> As for OM, I really don't believe that much would come of exposing him to his squadron other than a Letter of Reprimand and the MOST. They are more likely to take action against him if you were his dependent wife or if it was with another military member. Upon receiving your letter, his squadron commander would turn it over to this 1st Sgt, who would then call this airman to his office and give him some stern counselling and a warning, perhaps even a letter of counselling. They would also take into considering that it was your wife that drove many hours to go and meet him. Sorry, but that's the way I see it would go down.
> 
> ...


This is the kind of advice that tells me some people aren't reading from the beginning. Yes, she drove "10" hours to meet the OM and yes, it's so obvious that they did more than kiss. I already know this, it's obvious, but thanks for pointing it out for the 10th time. 

As for the OM, I don't care what happens to him whether a cousiling statement or UCMJ action. The point of exposing it is to scare the piss out of him to the point where contacting my wife again is a complete impossibility. 

My wife is no longer in the states, we're together and that's how I got her part truth confession. We're no longer separated. More importantly, she does NOT have the "I'm the mother of your child" thing over me. My CHILD is the one who has this over me and I will use that as a reason to at least try to reconcile.


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## debbie_S43 (Jun 9, 2011)

Hi All,

First time poster ont his thread - i am seperated at the minute and doing a 180 after spending a couple of weeks begging, crying, screaming etc...

I got to the point where i thought he is turning me into a person i really don't like, i am not weak usually but i was floored when he said i am not in love with you anymore and left.... after 25 years, 23 married.

Anyway, he started behaving very childishly and not going to tell me where he is, swears there is no one else despite being caught out with a huge phone bill, swears he was never physically unfaithful etc...

I decided last Friday to do a 180 - not in the interest of getting him back in my life but to help myself to heal..... I am not phoning, texting, emailing or seeing him at the moment to allow me some time to move on. I have been going out with friends and having a good time and am begining to feel like me again - something i think i lost during the years we were together..... When i made this descison i asked him to stay away from the house, that i didn't want to see him and asking him to give me the space to move on.

Well on Sunday he decided he needed to desperatly pick up a letter which had arrived on Saturday - my teenage daughter told me he was coming on Sunday and told her i had told him to stay away and i am certain it wasn't that urgent....... He did come but she went outside and gave him the letter, he asked what was going on and if i didn't want him in the house - what...... did he not understand my email.......

My friends think he wants to see what i am up to and that because he is wallowing in self pity he is gutted that i am not.... I have made it easy for him to walk away and in a lot of ways i am not sure what i would do or how i would react if he did a u turn.... that isn't the reason i am doing it unless i am kidding myself..... don't think so though, he has really hurt me and said some very blunt and hurtful things.

I have felt empowered the past couple of days AND i found out where he is completely by accident (not going to do anything but forward his mail)..... There are times when i get that sinking feeling but then i remind myself of how much i love myself again and how much i want to be in that happy place.....

On and upwards......x


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

debbie_S43 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> First time poster ont his thread - i am seperated at the minute and doing a 180 after spending a couple of weeks begging, crying, screaming etc...
> 
> ...


Hi, you might want to start your own thread and post there instead of on this one as it is an individual thread.

Good luck


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

NZHappy said:


> Hey man - just read your update. Seems like you have it all figured out and are proceeding at a pace that you're comfortable with.
> 
> I gotta say that I'm not understanding how on earth you can know your wife was sleeping with someone else and not confront her about it. In fact, are you able to explain the idea or strategy behind this because I beleive most of us on the forum will find this a bit of a head scratcher?
> 
> ...


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

The 13th_Floor said:


> This is the kind of advice that tells me some people aren't reading from the beginning. Yes, she drove "10" hours to meet the OM and yes, it's so obvious that they did more than kiss. I already know this, it's obvious, but thanks for pointing it out for the 10th time.
> 
> As for the OM, I don't care what happens to him whether a cousiling statement or UCMJ action. The point of exposing it is to scare the piss out of him to the point where contacting my wife again is a complete impossibility.
> 
> My wife is no longer in the states, we're together and that's how I got her part truth confession. We're no longer separated. More importantly, she does NOT have the "I'm the mother of your child" thing over me. My CHILD is the one who has this over me and I will use that as a reason to at least try to reconcile.


No need to get your panties in a bunch mister. Geez. Good luck then.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

*Update: The power of my 180 - 6 months later*

It's been 10 months since my initial post regarding my wife's affair with a 20 year old scumbag. She graduated school in the states on December 16th 2011 and flew back to her home country to be with us. It was her time away in school that our relationship crashed and burned. I have to say that this year has been the worst on record. 

I finally got a partial confession out of her during her visit over the summer and before leaving back to the states to finish her final semester, this is what we accomplished. 

She admitted they kissed and that's all that happened which I know is a lie. The texts, calls and emails led up to her staying in a hotel room with him for 3 days, but I let it go. I already know they're guilty of much more than a kiss. Plus, she knows that I know, but she was to chicken **** to admit it... 

She wrote an email and a Facebook message to this guy to never call, text, write or contact her in any way again or her husband (me) will be forced to take all proof of the affair to his commander (he's Air Force,) family and friends. She then blocked his email address and also blocked him on Facebook.

I told her shortly after that if this guy was such a great person, he wouldn't have taken part in breaking up your marriage especially when a child was involved. Only a scumbag would do that. She agreed.

Summer flew by and we reconnected piece by piece. Things were definitely getting better and she told me that her feelings of hate towards me were non existant. It was like she fell in love with me all over again, but before she went back to the states to finish school I told her this:

While your gone the next 4 months in school, if you continue to cease all contact in any form with this guy, I will forget this ever happened and never bring it up again. She agreed. She flew home and texted me her Facebook and email passwords which was a pleasant surprise being I didn't request them. 

During her time away I hardly talked to her. I was busy with my son and 2 jobs. I got a house, new car and even a nanny to help me out. I actually got to the point of feeling that even if she did contact or cheat on me with that guy again, I wouldn't even care. I was happy being alone as I became so independant in her home country.

Fast forward 4 months later, she graduated college and we're together again.

First off, she's still jetlagged. We've been apart off and on from each other for 15 months so it's still a bit wierd knowing she's here and never leaving us again for school. I haven't brought anything up about the cheating nor do I plan to. I'm just going to monitor her to see if there's even a chance of our marriage being what it once was. If not, it's alright. I moved to her country in Europe and can live here alone with no help and no regrets.

I've learned some very important things during this experience that are going to help me make the decision on whether to eventually stay or go, and this is hypothetical. First off, I have the upper hand. I'll be able to recognize signs such as lack of affection, intamacy, love, communication ETC - All of which I failed to recognize before she cheated (if only I had.) Long story short, if I don't feel I'm getting what I put into our marriage, I'll throw up the red flag and have a talk with her. If it continues and she doesn't want to talk about it, she can move back in with her father because I'd rather be alone or look for someone better. One thing's for sure, though, I won't cheat on her. 

Anyway, just wanted to let you all know that the 180 I pulled worked like a charm because "I stuck with it 100 percent!" She's definitely back in my court and knows I'm ready to walk (walk her out of my house, that is...) if she screws up. For now, though, I'm just going to be my normal awesome self except with an added arsenal of love bank coins I'll throw her way and as long as she reciprocates, I'm sure we'll be just fine.

Also wanted to share some things I'm GLAD I "didn't" do to try and get her back, although I'm sure some people on this site will disagree.

- I didn't tell her family. Reason being, it's not their business and I needed to do this alone. I felt it was taking the easy way out. Also, if/when we get back to the wonderful relationship we once had, we won't have to worry about her family snarling behind our backs knowing their daughter was once a cheating *****.

- I didn't tell her friends. Reason being, rumors for the rest of our lives? No thank you. We live in a very small village. Yes, a village.

- I never justified her staying because of our child. I wanted her to stay because she realized she was acting like a selfish douche instead of just staying for our son. Divorced or not, our son will be fine. 

That's it for now. I'll update again if anything changes (better or worse.) Thanks for reading.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

The 13th_Floor said:


> I actually got to the point of feeling that even if she did contact or cheat on me with that guy again, I wouldn't even care. *I was happy being alone* as I became so independent in her home country.


This right here shows the purpose and the power of the 180.

A happy person is an attractive person. Always has been, always will be.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

That's some fine work. Good job, 13th, and I hope it continues to work out for you guys.


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## stuckmick (Dec 10, 2011)

you sir, are an oak.....


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Great update. Good work and congrats!


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> She admitted they kissed and that's all that happened which I know is a lie. The texts, calls and emails led up to her staying in a hotel room with him for 3 days, but I let it go. I already know they're guilty of much more than a kiss. Plus, she knows that I know, but she was to chicken **** to admit it...



Isn't this bad? She is still capable of lying to you. Doesn't she need to confess for this to happen again?


Let me get this straight again. She cheated, got caught. Separated with you immediately on confrontation. There might also be a 2nd OM or more. She was dependent on you financially all this time. You did some 180 when you are separated. When she wanted you back, you were there for her immediately or with little resistance.



> Summer flew by and we reconnected piece by piece. Things were definitely getting better and she told me that her feelings of hate towards me were non existant. It was like she fell in love with me all over again, but before she went back to the states to finish school I told her this:


I was admiring how you were handling the issue but now I am worried for you. You seem to think that she is doing you a huge favor coming back to you. She got you back with little to no consequences.() And she hasn't even confessed yet. You should be concerned how easily she separated and lied to you. Why won't she do it again? Read your old posts again


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Keep up the good work. And please come back and help others by showing them the power of the 180, NMMNG, etc.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Isn't this bad? She is still capable of lying to you. Doesn't she need to confess for this to happen again?
> 
> 
> Let me get this straight again. She cheated, got caught. Separated with you immediately on confrontation. There might also be a 2nd OM or more. She was dependent on you financially all this time. You did some 180 when you are separated. When she wanted you back, you were there for her immediately or with little resistance.
> ...


Why won't she do it again, you ask? Because she cheated on me for 2 reasons - 1: Because she's selfish and doesn't know how to communicate. 2: Because I failed as a good husband. Is she still selfish? Yes. Will I still fail as a husband? NO. So that cuts the chances of her cheating again in half. It's just a chance that I'm willing to take as long as we're happy for the time being. She asked me for a second chance and I gave her one. 

Again, I have absolutely no desire to hear exactly what she did with the OM. Whether just a kiss, sexting, banging ETC, it's all cheating and she admitted to at least 1 on the list and hearing any further details might push me over the edge of reconciliation. In other words, admitting to a kiss was like sticking a knife through my heart. Admitting to a video recorded orgy would twist the knife and cut me in half. Why pour salt on an open wound? She lied once, she'll lie again. Simply put, she's fully capable of lying again whether she admits the whole truth or not. 

There will always be skeptics. The important part is that the 180 will continue, so in the event that this happens again, I'll be ready and willing to end the marriage and still be fine.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I dont think the purpose of the 180 is to be ignorant of the facts or take on blame for the affair


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> I dont think the purpose of the 180 is to be ignorant of the facts or take on blame for the affair


But neither knowing the gory details are a pre-requisite for a successful implementation of the 180.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> Because she cheated on me for 2 reasons - 1: Because she's selfish and doesn't know how to communicate. 2: Because I failed as a good husband.


While I agree that you might not be as good as you could be, I think you shouldn't list it as a reason. You are human after all(like she is). What if the next time you slip up due to stress or some other reason beyond your reach? Does it give her a reason to cheat again?

I think by not confessing the whole truth, she as well as you are ignoring a bigger issue. Confessing at least means she acknowledges her mistake in the whole thing. But instead she just learnt that she can still lie and cheat and be as selfish as she wants as long as you don't learn about the whole thing. She can still sleep around if she is careful enough. You said you *will not fail * again. I don't think it is in your hands. If she chooses to, you will fail again. In fact, you could have been failing all this time. 


You are not willing to listen to the whole truth. Why? Is it denial. Do you want to live a life based on lie ? If she did indeed sleep with him, you will have to live with it. You just cannot ignore issues and assume that they will disappear. You are still 30. You still have a good chance to start over again if you have to. Why would you want to spend the rest of your life with a person who cannot even confess after being caught red-handed?


If you have the patience to, read "cantbelieve"'s thread. In the last few pages, he acknowledges that not facing and properly acknowledging the real issues after a personal tragedy ultimately led to his wife's betrayal in the marriage. His_ "just get over it"_ attitude to the issues in his life did not help him in anyway. He is looking to fix those issues now. You are giving your wife every chance of rug-sweeping the issue. It will be just luck if it doesn't happen again(or does not come to your notice)


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

morituri said:


> But neither knowing the gory details are a pre-requisite for a successful implementation of the 180.


not saying he needs to know what positions she had done with OM and I agree if he wants no R then the 180 is fine in manner he is doing it but I think if he continues to R he needs truth and to recognize that him being a "bad husband" had nothing to do with her choice to cheat.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I disagree with you Warlock. He has achieved sufficient emotional fortitude to jettison the marriage if he catches any sign of her cheating on him once again.

He is at peace no matter what happens to his marriage and that is more important than an obsession with finding the ' whole truth'.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Yes, I too am sure that he will separate if she cheats again. I am more concerned about how this thing ended. The only thing that changed in the ens was him trying to be/being a better husband. Telling him the whole truth would be a good start IMO. If not, it is only denying what she did. It is like confessing guilty for a speeding when it was actually man-slaughter(bad analogy). Why waste his time for a false R.

Remember the other guy was scared sh!tless. Would he be if it was kissing?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

morituri said:


> I disagree with you Warlock. He has achieved sufficient emotional fortitude to jettison the marriage if he catches any sign of her cheating on him once again.
> 
> He is at peace no matter what happens to his marriage and that is more important than an obsession with finding the ' whole truth'.


If the main purpose of the 180 is for the BS to become detached and better able to handle a breakup then I think the OP is accomplishing that goal. In fact, one could say that the fact that he doesn't give a damn about the details might be evidence that he's ready to let her go in the event that she strays once again.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> If the main purpose of the 180 is for the BS to become detached and better able to handle a breakup then I think the OP is accomplishing that goal. *In fact, one could say that the fact that he doesn't give a damn about the details might be evidence that he's ready to let her go in the event that she strays once again*.


:iagree:

Success stories are a rare treat on this forum. And by success I mean a betrayed spouse who has removed his/her expectations of happiness from his cheating spouse and placed them on him/herself where they rightfully belong. He has turned his/her 'needs' into 'preferences'.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

morituri said:


> I disagree with you Warlock. He has achieved sufficient emotional fortitude to jettison the marriage if he catches any sign of her cheating on him once again.
> 
> He is at peace no matter what happens to his marriage and that is more important than an obsession with finding the ' whole truth'.


Thank you for understanding. This is exactly what I'm trying to say. It's almost like posters want me to revisit one of the darkest times in my life and torture myself again with even more pain for their reading pleasure. My story is not a reality show. This board is never going to read the intimate details of my wife's infedelity so I apologize (not really) if my story becomes less "juicy" and detailed as other posts on this forum. 

There is no rule book for reconciliation. There are steps one can take given the advice of an experienced Physiatrist, but all other advice is simply what worked for a particular person. I understand that the signs, scenarios and lies of infedelity are all the same, but one's life is not. 

I feel like I'm being pictured as some guy staring out a window on a rainy day, depressed, while my WS is in another room laughing with her OM on the phone. Do you readers think I'm a fool? Do you honestly think that I'm just sitting here in my own little fairytale letting my wife walk all over me? If that's the kind of poster you're looking for, there's PLENTY of those kind of people on these forums so maybe move along to their half-assed attempts of reconciliation and piss poor 180's. 

People are posting links from other stories to try and get their points across as if I didn't read EVERY story on here before picking and choosing the advice that catered best to MY particular situation almost a year ago. I assure you, I know everyone's story which is how I was able to choose my strategy moving forward...

I suspected infedility and gathered evidence. I caught them red handed and dropped the bomb. I followed the 180. My wife threatened to leave so I packed her bags. Wife came crawling back and confessed to cheating. Laid down my ground rules and she's following them. 

Has this not been a success so far? 

Maybe start focusing on the posters that put 180's on hold for anniversaries, birthdays and holidays. How about the betrayed that move out of their homes vs. kicking out the WS? Maybe the betrayed who texts the WS 10 times a day to come home, but on TAM talks about her/his 180 is going great! Epic fail... 

My marriage is back on track thanks to the advice of TAM and my personal tweaking of it the way it pertains to our particular life and marriage. I thank all of you for your advice thus far. 

Now, AlmostRecovered wants to know how my reconciliation can possibly move forward without my wife telling the entire truth. I understand why you're asking. She got out free and clear, right? She got caught, she was embarassed, but she didn't REALLY have to own up to what she did because she didn't have to tell me the full extent of the cheating. Charged with cheating, confessed to "straying" and sentenced to probation.

Well, I could have gotten the truth out, believe me, but my situation was quite unlike that of others at the time. I was in Europe, my wife was in the states. I only had 2 months during her summer visit to get her to confess to a kiss. The rest of her time needed to be spent with our 4 year old child before she left to finish her final semester of school in the states. His time with his mother was much more important than my time trying to get her to confess to cheating on me. It wasn't worth it. 

This is why I said not all situations are the same. I have to deal with her infedelity in a way that best suits us given the cards we were dealt at the time. Now that she's back, I'm starting not to care anymore. Now, it feels like she's not even worth getting a confession out of. We seriously might not last after this which I knew from the very beginning. We just have to see how things go.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

The 13th_Floor said:


> Now that she's back, I'm starting not to care anymore. Now, it feels like she's not even worth getting a confession out of. We seriously might not last after this which I knew from the very beginning. We just have to see how things go.


Since you made a life for many months while she was away, is her constant presence now triggering you?


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

morituri said:


> Since you made a life for many months while she was away, is her constant presence now triggering you?


Great question. Her cheating doesn't trigger me at all. I have absolutely no mental images what so ever - I wonder if that has something to do with me not pressing her for details? :smthumbup: I will tell you, though, that she really screwed herself over by cheating on me because I'm beginning to see the "real" her come out and I'm not liking it at all. 

She's become somewhat of a different person in a sense. It's like everything is just normal to her, like right where we left off before she cheated on me, but not in a good way. I haven't seen any change in her at all emotionally. She's much quieter now and affection is also a bit scarce. I'm not saying it's nonexistent, but I like affection and I'm not getting enough of it. I'm also not feeling like we're on the same page as far as the future is concerned i.e. I'm not picturing her in it. 

My point, it feels like we're roommates. The problem is that I don't really feel like talking to her about it to see what's up. Honestly, I don't really care. I mean if she lightens up and we get to a level where we're both happily married again then great, I'm game, but if I have to chase her down to try and pin point some underlying issue that she's not telling me then what has changed? The woman just doesn't communicate and I need a woman that will.

To put it into perspective, my wife's cheating coupled with my 180 has gotten me to the point at which I'm second guessing why I'm even with her. It's not because she cheated, it's because of the person I now know AFTER she cheated. She's not the person I met 9 years ago. 

Like I said, I'm going to monitor her actions over the next couple months to see if our marriage is even worth fighting for, but I'm not going to fight for it alone. She had better get her act together soon.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

The 13th_Floor said:


> Now, AlmostRecovered wants to know how my reconciliation can possibly move forward without my wife telling the entire truth. I understand why you're asking. She got out free and clear, right? She got caught, she was embarassed, but she didn't REALLY have to own up to what she did because she didn't have to tell me the full extent of the cheating. Charged with cheating, confessed to "straying" and sentenced to probation.
> 
> Well, I could have gotten the truth out, believe me, but my situation was quite unlike that of others at the time. I was in Europe, my wife was in the states. I only had 2 months during her summer visit to get her to confess to a kiss. The rest of her time needed to be spent with our 4 year old child before she left to finish her final semester of school in the states. His time with his mother was much more important than my time trying to get her to confess to cheating on me. It wasn't worth it.
> 
> This is why I said not all situations are the same. I have to deal with her infedelity in a way that best suits us given the cards we were dealt at the time. Now that she's back, I'm starting not to care anymore. Now, it feels like she's not even worth getting a confession out of. We seriously might not last after this which I knew from the very beginning. We just have to see how things go.


I can only post based on my experience based on myself and what I have seen others go through. 

You wish to claim your situation is different and I will agree to a certain extent as all situations are but I do believe that if you wish to R then you will have to know the truth at some point or else you will suffer the consequence of what happens during rug sweeping. So, you say you couldn't deal with the issue while you were away, but what about now? What's stopping you now? I could go on a long time with the many reasons as to why ignoring the realities of what actually happened will be harmful in either R or D but the biggest reason of all is that the most informed decisions are the ones that have all of the facts at hand.


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## OOE (Mar 17, 2011)

The 13th_Floor said:


> Great question. Her cheating doesn't trigger me at all. I have absolutely no mental images what so ever - I wonder if that has something to do with me not pressing her for details? :smthumbup: I will tell you, though, that she really screwed herself over by cheating on me because I'm beginning to see the "real" her come out and I'm not liking it at all.
> 
> She's become somewhat of a different person in a sense. It's like everything is just normal to her, like right where we left off before she cheated on me, but not in a good way. I haven't seen any change in her at all emotionally. She's much quieter now and affection is also a bit scarce. I'm not saying it's nonexistent, but I like affection and I'm not getting enough of it. I'm also not feeling like we're on the same page as far as the future is concerned i.e. I'm not picturing her in it.
> 
> ...


I also read almost every thread here.

Think for a bit about HerToo. Even after giving his wife details, he struggles with guilt. Imagine how much worse his guilt would be if he withheld all of the details (i.e. "strayed" vs "we had sex several times in six 6 different encounters"). His guilt is causing the rift in his marriage to heal slowly. Your wife's guilt is causing the rift in yours to heal even more slowly.

There's a voice inside your wife's head saying, "How can he forgive me? He has no idea what I've done to him." Until that voice is quelled, it will be very hard for her to move closer to you than she is.

I get that you're over it. I completely understand if you don't care at this point if the marriage is fixed or if she finds her way. I'm just saying that it's important that the details come out for the marriage.


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