# Unbelievable ONS, Husband Confessed



## Woundidwife

My husband admitted to a ONS very recently. He has, until this, been the most honest, reliable and trustworthy man I have ever known. I have known about it for about 3 weeks (of PTSD Hell: intrusive thoughts, nightmares, paranoia, insomnia, diarrhea, etc.), and I do not even know how to begin process this situation.

We were married very young (I was 18 and he was 19). I have never had sex with another person. He had several partners before we were married and now this random stranger. I thought we were married “happily enough”, but if I had a good enough reason to leave, I could leave him…and the one he provided me was a doozy.

The circumstances are seriously UNBELIEVABLE:
Two days before our 27th wedding anniversary, I was out of town for work. He was upset with me on a bedtime phone call, so he drove the 20 minutes into town to a bar at about 10:30pm, where as TOGETHER, we normally LEAVE places to be HOME by 10:00pm, because he always has to get up early for work the next day. According to him, he was drunk before he even left for the bar. He claims that he “didn’t know that purchasing drinks for this woman meant that he wanted to sleep with her”. He also “didn’t realize” that she was interested in sex until he said he was leaving and she asked if he wanted to go somewhere. He asked what she meant (yeah right!) and she had already been rubbing his inner thigh, but now touched his junk and told him he knew what she meant. He then said that he knew of a place and told her to follow him! Then they both drove 10 minutes away from the bar, where they had UNPROTECTED sex in her car in a deserted parking lot.

He told me all of this A MONTH AFTER it happened. (The timing was suspicious, but he says it had been eating him up all month and he “never found a good time to tell me”. I had suddenly been experiencing something like the WORST yeast infection of my life that I couldn’t shake...We have since both been tested—all clear—a month AFTER THE FACT. He tested BEFORE he told me so that he “would have all the answers for my questions when he told me, which means everyone in our doctor’s office knew before I did, and before I was tested!!!)

I did leave him the day he told me. I stayed with a relative for 3 days. I returned home on the premise that he agreed to leave. He has been agreeable. Because of his efforts, I allowed him to stay and though I am abusing him often with my angry words, it is also nice to let him hold me from time to time. This is messing with my head though. The one who ran my heart through a meat-grinder is the same one comforting me. (Is that screwed up or what?!)

There is no way to find this woman and I am severely angry and obsessed. He makes no excuses, says he has no idea why he did this, and that it has nothing to do with me. (Pretty hard to believe in light of the circumstances.) He is remorseful and just wants me to heal and return to our now “better than before” relationship.

I am just not sure what I really want or whether I can forgive this at all. As I said, I have never had sex with anyone else and have always been curious, but have not acted on my curiosity. He says the sex was meaningless (which makes no sense if the same act is supposedly meaningful with me). I almost feel that if I TRY to have “meaningless sex” with another man and CANNOT go through with it, (which I don’t think I even could), that means he is the most despicable pig on the planet to have been able to do that to me, and I should just leave him even though he really is trying to make amends. If I COULD go through with it, that might mean that it is just human nature and that I could forgive him. He had given me his blessing, but fears that I will find that the grass TRULY IS greener on the other side, which I doubt. I think I the experiment would only teach me that I probably cannot and should not forgive him.

We are already in counseling, both together and separately.

I am thinking a short, scheduled separation might remind me of the person I used to be before all of this and what I now am beginning to see was our depressing marriage. 

Unfortunately, I feel like I don’t really have a choice but to forgive him. I don’t know any other life, and maybe the grass is worse on the other side, but I never had the chance to even sample it, so I wouldn’t know if I am missing anything or if I already have the best option for me—despite his horrible and DEBILITATING betrayal. I do believe that because of my COMPLETE DEVASTATION I do still love him; but if I want to stay with him, is it because I do still love him and WANT to be with him or because I DON’T KNOW HOW to live without him? How will I even know? I do not think I can make an informed decision. I am not even sure I CAN forgive this!!!!!

Any advice?


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## Andy1001

You need to figure out why he told you. I don’t want to scare you but he could have caught an std or in the worst case scenario the other woman is pregnant. Or someone could be blackmailing him. 
Insist on him getting tested and make sure you get tested yourself. And don’t sleep with him until you are both in the clear.


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## Spoons027

Woundidwife said:


> There is no way to find this woman and I am severely angry and obsessed. He is remorseful and just wants me to heal and return to our “better than before” relationship.


Yeah, sorry, fat chance of that happening. If he's serious, he should change that kind of thinking. It's going to be a completely new and different marriage. There's no way you can go back to a 'better than before' relationship. And if you plan on staying with him, pay attention to his actions. His actions will hold more weight than his words.

It also isn't too late to sample a life outside of him. How about you do something for yourself for a change? Perhaps you should take that scheduled separation and find out what you really want going forward.


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## Evinrude58

You should see an attorney and start the process. If he earns a reprieve, maybe you could reconsider. What he did is inexcusable.


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## TexasMom1216

Divorce. If you stay this will never stop. It’s been going on throughout the entire marriage. Get yourself tested for STDs TODAY. You’re probably sick and don’t know it.


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## Woundidwife

He says the guilt was killing him. Every time I woke in the night, he was awake, so I think that is true. (He had a vasectomy about 18 years ago and we are both in the clear for all testing—3 weeks after the event.). He never even considered his own sexual health!!! 

I am beyond devastated.


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## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> My husband admitted to a ONS very recently. He has, until this, been the most honest, reliable and trustworthy man I have ever known. I have known about it for about 3 weeks (of PTSD Hell: intrusive thoughts, nightmares, paranoia, insomnia, diarrhea, etc.), and I do not even know how to begin process this situation.
> 
> We were married very young (I was 18 and he was 19). I have never had sex with another person. He had several partners before we were married and now this random stranger. I thought we were married “happily enough”, but if I had a good enough reason to leave, I could leave him…and the one he provided me was a doozy.
> 
> The circumstances are seriously UNBELIEVABLE:
> Two days before our 27th wedding anniversary, I was out of town for work. He was upset with me on a bedtime phone call, so he drove the 20 minutes into town to a bar at about 10:30pm, where as TOGETHER, we normally LEAVE places to be HOME by 10:00pm, because he always has to get up early for work the next day. According to him, he was drunk before he even left for the bar. He claims that he “didn’t know that purchasing drinks for this woman meant that he wanted to sleep with her”. He also “didn’t realize” that she was interested in sex until he said he was leaving and she asked if he wanted to go somewhere. He asked what she meant (yeah right!) and she had already been rubbing his inner thigh, but now touched his junk and told him he knew what she meant. He then said that he knew of a place and told her to follow him! Then they both drove 10 minutes away from the bar, where they had UNPROTECTED sex in her car in a deserted parking lot.
> 
> He told me all of this A MONTH AFTER it happened. (The timing was suspicious, but he says it had been eating him up all month and he “never found a good time to tell me”. I had suddenly been experiencing something like the WORST yeast infection of my life that I couldn’t shake...We have since both been tested—all clear—a month AFTER THE FACT. He tested BEFORE he told me so that he “would have all the answers for my questions when he told me, which means everyone in our doctor’s office knew before I did, and before I was tested!!!)
> 
> I did leave him the day he told me. I stayed with a relative for 3 days. I returned home on the premise that he agreed to leave. He has been agreeable. Because of his efforts, I allowed him to stay and though I am abusing him often with my angry words, it is also nice to let him hold me from time to time. This is messing with my head though. The one who ran my heart through a meat-grinder is the same one comforting me. (Is that screwed up or what?!)
> 
> There is no way to find this woman and I am severely angry and obsessed. He makes no excuses, says he has no idea why he did this, and that it has nothing to do with me. (Pretty hard to believe in light of the circumstances.) He is remorseful and just wants me to heal and return to our now “better than before” relationship.
> 
> I am just not sure what I really want or whether I can forgive this at all. As I said, I have never had sex with anyone else and have always been curious, but have not acted on my curiosity. He says the sex was meaningless (which makes no sense if the same act is supposedly meaningful with me). I almost feel that if I TRY to have “meaningless sex” with another man and CANNOT go through with it, (which I don’t think I even could), that means he is the most despicable pig on the planet to have been able to do that to me, and I should just leave him even though he really is trying to make amends. If I COULD go through with it, that might mean that it is just human nature and that I could forgive him. He had given me his blessing, but fears that I will find that the grass TRULY IS greener on the other side, which I doubt. I think I the experiment would only teach me that I probably cannot and should not forgive him.
> 
> We are already in counseling, both together and separately.
> 
> I am thinking a short, scheduled separation might remind me of the person I used to be before all of this and what I now am beginning to see was our depressing marriage.
> 
> Unfortunately, I feel like I don’t really have a choice but to forgive him. I don’t know any other life, and maybe the grass is worse on the other side, but I never had the chance to even sample it, so I wouldn’t know if I am missing anything or if I already have the best option for me—despite his horrible and DEBILITATING betrayal. I do believe that because of my COMPLETE DEVASTATION I do still love him; but if I want to stay with him, is it because I do still love him and WANT to be with him or because I DON’T KNOW HOW to live without him? How will I even know? I do not think I can make an informed decision. I am not even sure I CAN forgive this!!!!!
> 
> Any advice?


@Woundidwife I’m sorry you’re going through this and that you have such a loser husband.

Seperation is a reasonable for a betrayed spouse because you need to put a buffer between your attacker and you so that you can think clearly. You need quiet space to process and deal with your hurt. It may indeed aid in killing your marriage, but it will also aid in showing you loser husband that what he did was serious and has serious consequences.

Its his job to help you heal, it’s not your job to “get over it”. If he’s not doing that then he gets the boot. Start with that (getting the boot) and then you're in the driver’s seat.

See a lawyer and file for divorce. Seperate. Then let’s see if he’s serious.


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## bobert

TexasMom1216 said:


> Divorce. If you stay this will never stop. *It’s been going on throughout the entire marriage*. Get yourself tested for STDs TODAY. You’re probably sick and don’t know it.


Uh, what? 


Woundidwife said:


> He has, until this, been the most honest, reliable and trustworthy man I have ever known.





Woundidwife said:


> He had several partners *before we were married* and now this random stranger.


Making up stories, again.


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## Woundidwife

I really don’t think it has happened before, but this whole situation seems so extreme, so deliberate and intentional that I am really struggling…


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## TexasMom1216

bobert said:


> Uh, what?
> 
> 
> 
> Making up stories, again.


Beat that narrative horse. 🙄 Not predictable at all. Also, you’re thread jacking.

Isn’t “trickle truth” recognized as fact around here? This isn’t the first time it’s happened, this is the first time he got caught.

Be honest, any other poster and you’d be reacting very differently, wouldn’t you? Any other poster who said “cheaters lie and what they’re confessing is the tip of the iceberg” and you would agree. What’s different here? You had nothing to say when a different poster told her to separate and start the process of divorce but you’re calling me a liar for saying what many others have said in similar situations?


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## bobert

TexasMom1216 said:


> Beat that narrative horse. 🙄 Not predictable at all
> 
> Isn’t “trickle truth” recognized as fact around here? This isn’t the first time it’s happened, this is the first time he got caught.
> 
> Be honest, any other poster and you’d be reacting very differently, wouldn’t you? Any other poster who said “cheaters lie and what they’re confessing is the tip of the iceberg” and you would agree. What’s different here?


There is a difference between "he may be lying and here's why/prepare for more" and saying it as fact - which you do over and over.


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## ConanHub

Hey @Woundidwife , I'm really sorry you have been exposed to this ridiculous infidelity.

If I read it right, you are clear from STDs but what an asshat he is to expose you.

It isn't up to me to tell you what path to take but your husband has obviously developed some serious problem since this seems out of left field for him.

He needs to get to the bottom of his malfunction and you need to look out for your own well being. That might mean reconciliation or going a different path but you could probably use your own counseling as you seem very traumatized (perfectly normal and understandable BTW) by your husband's betrayal.

He did fess up so there is that. Most spouses who do a one off take it to their grave.

Give yourself some time and space to stop your head spinning and make a healthy decision for yourself.

There are some who have reconciled from much worse here and maybe you can get some good information from them.

@No Longer Lonely Husband is a healthy reconciler you can check out though he is a badass marine. LoL!

I'm actually coming up short for women who reconciled on this site but there are several stories here with valuable insights for everyone.

I didn't see it mentioned but do you have children?


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## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> I really don’t think it has happened before, but this whole situation seems so extreme, so deliberate and intentional that I am really struggling…


Yeah, sorry OP there's a bit of a personality clash going on over this specific point.

But you do have to consider that this might not be his first time. Everything right now is suspect as you are aware. Don't believe what he says unless you can verify it. At least don't take things as the full truth. I think that's the point here, guard yourself. This could get worse.


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## TexasMom1216

bobert said:


> There is a difference between "he may be lying and here's why/prepare for more" and saying it as fact - which you do over and over.


Oh please, that’s a pathetic stretch and you didn’t even answer my question. Stop threadjacking the OP’s thread because you don’t like me.


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## TexasMom1216

Woundidwife said:


> I really don’t think it has happened before, but this whole situation seems so extreme, so deliberate and intentional that I am really struggling…


It’s understandable. I don’t mean to sound so harsh, I apologize for that. Look, many times cheaters lie about a lot. It’s very possible that what you know is only the beginning. I wouldn’t close your eyes, I would carefully think about everything he’s done in the past and what he’s doing now and be sure you’re really opening your eyes. And I would get yourself tested for STDs, just to be safe. At this point he wants to save the status quo. Trust your gut.


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## bobert

TexasMom1216 said:


> Na of
> 
> Oh please, that’s a pathetic stretch and you didn’t even answer my question. Stop threadjacking the OP’s thread because you don’t like me.


Okay, stop making up stories then crying thread jack because you don't like me and think we're all out to get you (point proven in your response to this). Deal?

Oh, and I didn't answer your question because you'd just accuse me of lying because I'm a man.


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## Woundidwife

He says he now realizes how much he loves me. I am pissed that THIS is what it took to become the man I always wanted him to be. Not sure how to begin forgiveness—if I even can.


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## TexasMom1216

bobert said:


> Okay, stop making up stories then crying thread jack because you don't like me and think we're all out to get you. Deal?
> 
> Oh, and I didn't answer your question because you'd just accuse me of lying because I'm a man.


I never said a single thing to back up anything you’ve said here. If any other poster said what I said you’d have left it alone. You’re attacking me because you want to pick a fight and have me banned. You saw my name on a post and started screaming “man hater”. Probably didn’t even read what I posted.


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## ConanHub

This is so remarkably like the other ons hread. 🧐


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## TexasMom1216

Woundidwife said:


> He says he now realizes how much he loves me. I am pissed that THIS is what it took to become the man I always wanted him to be. Not sure how to begin forgiveness—if I even can.


Oh honey all cheaters say this. Something like “sleeping with this other person made me realize how much I love you.” Only you can decide but it sure sounds like a line to me. Do you think he would accept that from you if the roles were reversed?


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## Woundidwife

We have grown children, who are now out of the house and have been for a couple of years.


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## ConanHub

Woundidwife said:


> He says he now realizes how much he loves me. I am pissed that THIS is what it took to become the man I always wanted him to be. Not sure how to begin forgiveness—if I even can.


What do you want? Your health and what you want are what's important right now.


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## Not

Woundidwife said:


> He says he now realizes how much he loves me. I am pissed that THIS is what it took to become the man I always wanted him to be. Not sure how to begin forgiveness—if I even can.


I am so sorry you’re going through this. I think it would be a really good idea to ask the members here to give you some sort of idea as to what reconciliation entails, all the down and dirty details. It may end up being something you don’t want to go through.


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## ConanHub

Woundidwife said:


> We have grown children, who are now out of the house and have been for a couple of years.


Do you have support from family or friends?

Does anyone else know what's going on?

You could use a support group.


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## Woundidwife

I did ask him if that if the roles were reversed would he forgive me, which he replied “of course” he would. I asked him to close his eyes and imagine (I walked him through his entire situation) me doing what he did. He wasn’t a fan. I do not believe he would have forgiven me. 

To top it all off, HIS rule from the beginning of our marriage was: if you ever even think you want to be with someone else, at least have the decency to TELL ME FIRST. Somehow that rule was forgotten or maybe it never applied to him. 

Can you see why I am sooooo f***ing crushed and in disbelief?!

No one WOULD EVER BELIEVE this about him!!!! Ever. I am having a very hard time myself.


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## bobert

Woundidwife said:


> I am just not sure what I really want or whether I can forgive this at all. As I said, I have never had sex with anyone else and have always been curious, but have not acted on my curiosity. He says the sex was meaningless (which makes no sense if the same act is supposedly meaningful with me). I almost feel that if I TRY to have “meaningless sex” with another man and CANNOT go through with it, (which I don’t think I even could), that means he is the most despicable pig on the planet to have been able to do that to me, and I should just leave him even though he really is trying to make amends. If I COULD go through with it, that might mean that it is just human nature and that I could forgive him. He had given me his blessing, but fears that I will find that the grass TRULY IS greener on the other side, which I doubt. I think I the experiment would only teach me that I probably cannot and should not forgive him.


If you are thinking about having a revenge affair, don't do it. It most likely won't help at all but will make things harder. Either you stay together and it adds more **** to deal with, or you divorce and you feel like crap for doing it. 

BTDT, don't recommend it.


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## bobert

Woundidwife said:


> Somehow that rule was forgotten or maybe it never applied to him.


Honestly, most cheaters either aren't thinking about their spouse at all or just don't care.


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## Woundidwife

I have told only a few close family members. They are very supportive. Our (grown) children also know.


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## ConanHub

Woundidwife said:


> I did ask him if that if the roles were reversed would he forgive me, which he replied “of course” he would. I asked him to close his eyes and imagine (I walked him through his entire situation) me doing what he did. He wasn’t a fan. I do not believe he would have forgiven me.
> 
> To top it all off, HIS rule from the beginning of our marriage was: if you ever even think you want to be with someone else, at least have the decency to TELL ME FIRST. Somehow that rule was forgotten or maybe it never applied to him.
> 
> Can you see why I am sooooo f***ing crushed and in disbelief?!
> 
> No one WOULD EVER BELIEVE this about him!!!! Ever. I am having a very hard time myself.


Have you checked out individual counseling or therapy?

You have obviously been struck a terrible blow and you are wounded. (I can read). 

Please consider your health and get into healing mode. You do not have to deal with your marriage right now. You absolutely can, and should, work towards healing yourself.


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## *Deidre*

I’m sorry you’re going through this. 

Take time to sort out your feelings, anger, etc… There’s no rush to forgive and move on. He’d like that but you need to really take your time. I don’t know if he’s ever done this before but you’ll always wonder, now. And that is what has changed. You’ll always question if you know everything.

That’s why cheating is so damaging. Don’t stay because you’re afraid. Only stay because you really sorted out your feelings and you’re being deliberate about it. Whether you stay or leave, do it for the right reasons.


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## Woundidwife

I have been hit on a few times in my life…I always think about my husband. My go to answer is, “My husband thinks so, too,” which is the best and quickest way to exit the situation. How hard would that have been for him to even remember that I existed?!!


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## TexasMom1216

Woundidwife said:


> I did ask him if that if the roles were reversed would he forgive me, which he replied “of course” he would. I asked him to close his eyes and imagine (I walked him through his entire situation) me doing what he did. He wasn’t a fan. I do not believe he would have forgiven me.
> 
> To top it all off, HIS rule from the beginning of our marriage was: if you ever even think you want to be with someone else, at least have the decency to TELL ME FIRST. Somehow that rule was forgotten or maybe it never applied to him.
> 
> Can you see why I am sooooo f***ing crushed and in disbelief?!
> 
> No one WOULD EVER BELIEVE this about him!!!! Ever. I am having a very hard time myself.


Everything you’re feeling is normal. But think about this for a minute: if you cheated and he accepted it, would you respect him any more? It’s hard to answer because right now he’s hardly deserving of any respect after what he’s done. Do you think you’d really respect him if he just “let it go”? Then think about if you’d want him to see you the way you would see him if he allowed himself to be cheated on. 

He did the breaking here. You are not to blame. You can’t control what he did, but you can control how you react to it. And there is no rush. Take your time and decide what you want to do. Then do it. I bet you’re going to be surprised how much support you have around you.


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## Woundidwife

I just do not even know where to start.

*HOW* does someone FORGIVE something like this?!!!!


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## Not

Woundidwife said:


> I just fo not even know where to start.
> 
> *HOW* does someone FORGIVE something like this?!!!!


You don’t have to do anything right now. It’s going to be enough just making it through each day for a while. Do what you need to do to take care of yourself and if that means asking him to leave then do that. Baby steps.


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## Gabriel

The first thing I would recommend you do is change your thinking a bit. This isn't all that unbelievable, or unique, or special. This has happened to many of us, also by people we never thought would.

This sounds like a run of the mill ONS to me.

And yes, it HURTS.


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## snowbum

He got annoyed with you, picked up a ho and banged her in a car. What a ****ty human. He’s gross. He’s not worth staying with. Gag. He talked to you and banged a stranger joyed later. What a ****head.


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## ConanHub

Woundidwife said:


> I have been hit on a few times in my life…I always think about my husband. My go to answer is, “My husband thinks so, too,” which is the best and quickest way to exit the situation. How hard would that have been for him to even remember that I existed?!!


I feel for you. Please focus on yourself, your healing and health.

Your husband did not put you first or consider your well being so please stop considering him.

Do you have a support group?

If not, please get into one and work on healing.

What has your husband done to rectify his damage?

What books has he read?

What resources has he researched?

Helping you spouse heal from your affair is a good resource though a ons might lead him to believe the damage isn't as great as a full blown affair. It certainly can be.


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## snowbum

A guy who would do this doesn’t love you. He doesn’t want the inconvenience of you leaving.


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## bobert

Woundidwife said:


> I just do not even know where to start.
> 
> *HOW* does someone FORGIVE something like this?!!!!


In my experience, it takes a lot of time (years) and work. For me it has been 4 years and I'm stuck at "I don't _not_ forgive her". Not sure I will ever be comfortable saying "I forgive her/you", though it has slipped out a few times. Understanding why she did it is what has helped me, but that took a lot of time and work on both sides. 

There is no such thing as forgive _and forget_. This is something that you will always remember and your marriage will be forever changed. Even years from now it will pop up sometimes but you can learn to let it have less control over you. 

People who are cheated on usually want to rush through it and be/feel better. Unfortunately that's not possible. There are things you can do to speed it up but it's something that you have to just go through. And yeah, it sucks.


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## Beach123

Woundidwife said:


> I really don’t think it has happened before, but this whole situation seems so extreme, so deliberate and intentional that I am really struggling…


The cheating - it was intentional. He had to make numerous decisions to make sure this happened! And NO way he can honestly say he didn’t know that buying her a drink meant anything.
Many many things he purposely did that betrayed you in a bold faced way!
I would need at LEAST six solid months of not seeing his face again to consider what I may do.

but I can’t imagine staying with ANY man that would treat me with such blatant disrespect and disregard! No way!

he knew exactly what he left the house for at that hour. He drove drunk! He could have killed someone! Then what happened once he got there is just despicable! He’s not a man that should be married!

love does not look like what he did to you!


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## TexasMom1216

Woundidwife said:


> I just do not even know where to start.
> 
> *HOW* does someone FORGIVE something like this?!!!!


Forgiving and forgetting are two different things. You should forgive for your own mental health. But that doesn’t mean accepting it and it doesn’t mean forgetting it. He’s thinking about himself. You do the same.


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## Beach123

What was he mad at you for that night on the phone?


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## Woundidwife

ConanHub said:


> This is so remarkably like the other ons hread. 🧐


Which one? Is it the woman?!
or did my husband post something? Please direct me to the thread!!


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## Woundidwife

Beach123 said:


> What was he mad at you for that night on the phone?


He suspected I was drunk at my work event (I wasn’t). He heard laughing in the background (others possibly were) and he said he couldn’t talk to me. I don’t listen to him.


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## re16

You shouldn't be worrying about forgiving him. If that happens, it will be years from now and only if your husband puts in the work.

You did nothing wrong here and have a right to be angry.

He threw away your decades long marriage for nothing, although it would be a huge mistake to take his story at face value... as cheaters lie... a lot.

If I were you, I would start the process of divorce, you can always stop it... but you need to deliver severe consequences for him.

I'd say, it is highly unlikely that he confessed solely due to guilt... there is more to the story... there always is....


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## ConanHub

Woundidwife said:


> Which one? Is it the woman?!
> or did my husband post something? Please direct me to the thread!!


I actually believe I first encountered you on his thread.

His wife had a ons and their story has similarities to yours.


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## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> Which one? Is it the woman?!
> or did my husband post something? Please direct me to the thread!!


It's not your husband, it's a woman who did the ONS and the husband was blindsided and hurt over it. The similarities are the completely out-of-the-blue behavior of the wayward. Both wayward's confessed, and both betrayed spouses are struggling with what to believe and not believe.


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## Woundidwife

ConanHub said:


> I actually believe I first encountered you on his thread.
> 
> His wife had a ons and there story has similarities to yours.


How can I find that thread again? I would like to compare notes!!!


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## ConanHub

Woundidwife said:


> How can I find that thread again? I would like to compare notes!!!











Wife confessed to a ONS


We got married at 19 and have been married for 18 years! My wife is the love of my life and best friend. We do a lot of traveling, activities together,etc. we get along great but like most couples have the occasional fight. Our marriage continues to get better every year. We have sex 3-4 times a...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





Here you go. I did encounter you here.


----------



## oldshirt

Woundidwife said:


> I just do not even know where to start.
> 
> *HOW* does someone FORGIVE something like this?!!!!


There is nothing that says you do have to accept this. Adultery is a bona fide marriage killer and marriages end every day because of it. Lots of people are not able to accept this and continue with the relationship. For many Betrayed spouses (BS) their loss of esteem and respect etc is too great to continue the marriage. That is the risk that cheaters take when they get with someone else. 

At this point I agree with the other posters. Take time out. Physically separate (have him leave the house and find a place) let the dust settle and do some honest soul searching and see if when your head clears and the dust settles of that gives you some clarity on how you want to proceed.

The take away here is you are not obligated to forgive and accept this. It may legitimately be too much to accept.


----------



## Evinrude58

Your husband confessed and is up at night abd can’t sleep over it….
There’s that. Few cheaters confess.
Few honest men go out to bars and pick up women and pretend they don’t know how it works.
Then again, few long term married men know how aggressive women are today and don’t know at first how to deal with it. I didn’t.

See an attorney and get the divorceball rolling and you’ll see how sorry he is. Make it a nightmare for him, just as it’s a nightmare for you. Even if you choose to stay abd forgive and try again, you should have a good example of hell for him to remember, should he ever have in mind to go to a bar again and chase women.

Do you think this one really a one time event or first time he got caught?
Do you think he’s truly remorseful?
Do you think he’s an honest person or a liar?

however you answer that, realize he is capable of a lot more than you thought.


----------



## oldshirt

I would also suggest consulting a divorce attorney and get a good idea of what a divorce would look like for you and what your rights and responsibilities would be should you decide to go that route or should he decide he wants to divorce. 

You don't have to actually file right at this moment if you don't want, but you can become informed so you have at least have a realistic idea of what a divorce in your situation would entail and what your post divorce life would be like. 

It would be gathering factual information so you can make an informed decision.


----------



## snowbum

He falsely accused you and slept around on you? He sounds like an abusive douche.


----------



## Woundidwife

Thank you all for the support and the thread link!


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you all for the support and the thread link!


Keep posting here, even if just to vent. We’ve all been there. Despite differing opinions and ideas, we’re all here to help. Just filter out the noise and I promise we will help you through this.


----------



## Young at Heart

First of all check out some of the "Recommended Reading "threads at the bottom of the page.

There are also a number of fine books on the topic. The problem is, what he did was inexcusable. I am glad you didn't get an STD. The description of the woman sounded like she was a professional, not some lonely woman. Sex in a car in a parking lot? Rubbing his thigh and then holding his junk? He is not that stupid to know know what he was getting into.

You get to decide what you want. You can work on reconciliation or you can divorce him. It is really your choice.

You sound like you have done many "right things." You have been tested for STD's (get tested again in a few months and have him get tested as well). The two of you are both in individual and joint counseling. You have thought about a revenge ONS and hopefully decided against that. You have thought about divorce. You have thought about a fixed length separation for both of you to see if it might be possible to reconcile. You indicate that he was a pig and turned your life upside down to the point you may never forgive him. You indicated that you can't imagine life without him and that despite everything you love him. You have reached out to a few close family and friends for support and told your adult children about what he did, so you have a support group.

Re-read some of the things you wrote.



Woundidwife said:


> .....We were married very young (I was 18 and he was 19). I have never had sex with another person. He had several partners before we were married and now this random stranger.
> 
> ....Two days before our 27th wedding anniversary, I was out of town for work. He was upset with me on a bedtime phone call, ......he “didn’t know that purchasing drinks for this woman meant that he wanted to sleep with her”. ...He asked what she meant (yeah right!) and she had already been rubbing his inner thigh, but now touched his junk and told him he knew what she meant. ......Then they both drove 10 minutes away from the bar, where they had UNPROTECTED sex in her car in a deserted parking lot.
> 
> I did leave him the day he told me. I stayed with a relative for 3 days. I returned home on the premise that he agreed to leave. He has been agreeable. Because of his efforts, I allowed him to stay and though *I am abusing him often with my angry words*, it is also nice to let him hold me from time to time.
> 
> ...... he has no idea why he did this, and that it has nothing to do with me. (Pretty hard to believe in light of the circumstances.) He is remorseful and just wants me to heal and return to our now “better than before” relationship.
> 
> *I am just not sure what I really want or whether I can forgive this at all.* ....... that means he is the most despicable pig on the planet to have been able to do that to me, and I should just leave him *even though he really is trying to make amends.*
> 
> *We are already in counseling, both together and separately*.
> 
> *I am thinking a short, scheduled separation might remind me of the person I used to be before all of this and what I now am beginning to see was our depressing marriage.*
> 
> Unfortunately, *I feel like I don’t really have a choice but to forgive him. I don’t know any other life*, ....... I do believe that because of my COMPLETE DEVASTATION I do still love him; but if I want to stay with him, is it because I do still love him and *WANT to be with him or because I DON’T KNOW HOW to live without him*? How will I even know? I do not think I can make an informed decision. I am not even sure I CAN forgive this!!!!!
> 
> *Any advice?*





Woundidwife said:


> He says he now realizes how much he loves me. I am pissed that THIS is what it took to become the man I always wanted him to be. Not sure how to begin forgiveness—if I even can.





Woundidwife said:


> *We have grown children,* who are now out of the house and have been for a couple of years.





Woundidwife said:


> I did ask him if that if the roles were reversed would he forgive me, which he replied “of course” he would. I asked him to close his eyes and imagine (I walked him through his entire situation) me doing what he did. He wasn’t a fan. I do not believe he would have forgiven me.
> 
> To top it all off, HIS rule from the beginning of our marriage was: if you ever even think you want to be with someone else, at least have the decency to *TELL ME FIRST. * Somehow that rule was forgotten or maybe it never applied to him.
> 
> Can you see why I am sooooo f***ing crushed and in disbelief?!
> 
> No one WOULD EVER BELIEVE this about him!!!! Ever. I am having a very hard time myself.





Woundidwife said:


> I have told only a few close family members. They are very supportive. *Our (grown) children also know.*





Woundidwife said:


> I just do not even know where to start.
> 
> *HOW* does someone FORGIVE something like this?!!!!





Woundidwife said:


> He suspected I was drunk at my work event (I wasn’t). He heard laughing in the background (others possibly were) and he said he couldn’t talk to me. I don’t listen to him.


Listen to your individual and joint counselors and ask them questions. You have one of the biggest decisions of your life and the advice to take your time is very sound. Make sure you figure out what you want. After 27 years of marriage you are still young enough to find happiness for many decades with another man if that is what you want. 

You thoughts on a temporary separation sounds very reasonable, and yet, because he has proved not to be trustworthy, you need to set some very clear boundaries with him. Those should be set in counseling and will be red lines that will automatically trigger divorce. I would suggest that he stop all drinking, not go to bars, and abstain from any company with women. 

When my wife and I were going through marriage counseling and sex therapy sessions, one of the things that helped after we both committed to reconciliation was to visualize what we wanted our marriage to look like in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, etc. What did we want to do in retirement. What things and experiences did we want to share together in the future? What shared goals did we have for the future?

Again, you get to decide if there will be a future with him. You sound like you have your act together. You might want to reach out to your friends, family, children support group. Tell them you need their support and as you go through your separation to figure out your future, you would appreciate their love and understanding and listening to you.

Good luck. You will survive, you are taking many of the right steps to be a survivor.


----------



## lifeistooshort

OP, if you decide to stick around you're going to have to realize that he's not the man you've always wanted. He's a guy in damage control mode.

The guy you have is a guy who decided to pay you back for perceived drunkenness by driving to a bar to pick up a random *****.

That's what you've got. Whether you can live with that is up to you.

I'd never look at him the same again. I left my ex over infidelity and it was a great decision.

So just be honest about who your hb is because he's shown you.


----------



## snowbum

A guy who is pissed someone might have had a drink and then cheats should be an ex


----------



## frusdil

Woundidwife said:


> is also nice *to let him hold me from time to time.* This is messing with my head though. *The one who ran my heart through a meat-grinder is the same one comforting me.* (Is that screwed up or what?!)
> 
> *There is no way to find this woman* and I am severely angry and obsessed. He makes no excuses, says he has no idea why he did this, and that *it has nothing to do with me*. (Pretty hard to believe in light of the circumstances.) He is remorseful and just wants me to heal and return to our now “better than before” relationship.
> 
> *He says the sex was meaningless (which makes no sense* if the same act is supposedly meaningful with me). I almost feel that if I TRY to have “meaningless sex” with another man and CANNOT go through with it, (which I don’t think I even could), that means he is the most despicable pig on the planet to have been able to do that to me, and I should just leave him even though he really is trying to make amends. *If I COULD go through with it, that might mean that it is just human nature and that I could forgive him*. He had given me his blessing, but fears that I will find that the grass TRULY IS greener on the other side, which I doubt. I think I the experiment would only teach me that I probably cannot and should not forgive him.
> 
> *I now am beginning to see was our depressing marriage.*


OP, first up I am so very sorry this has happened to you sweetheart, absolutely devastating doesn't even begin to describe it. I would cope with my husbands death better than something like this...the thought of him with another woman...omg...no no no.

Re the bolded parts above...it's not screwed up, its natural - its called hysterical bonding and is very common in situations like this.

Don't worry about the other woman. She is nothing. She's what you scrape off the bottom of your shoe. Your beef is with your husband. 

Some men are absolutely capable of having sex for sex sake. It does mean nothing to them, and is NO reflection on their wives. None. Don't have a revenge affair, don't lower yourself to his level. Down the line you'll be so glad you didn't do that - you are so much better than that honey. You WOULD regret it.

If there were issues in the marriage, they are on both you and your husband, absolutely. His choice to cheat however, is 100% on him and him alone. Absolutely not on you, not a single bit. He did it because he chose to. Nothing more, nothing less.

The first thing you need to do is put all of your focus on you. Stuff him, you do you. You do whatever you have to do to keep yourself healthy and get through this.

My heart is with you, big love xx


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> I just do not even know where to start.
> 
> *HOW* does someone FORGIVE something like this?!!!!


One of the greatest mistakes that we make when we are cheated on is going right to this question. What we actually mean is “How do I make the hurt stop, and how do I make this better.” And the answer to that is… you don’t.

You need time to process your feelings. He cannot help you do this, and more likely he will keep you from doing this. You are hurting, confused, sad, grieving, betrayed and every other horrific feeling imaginable because of what he did. And unfortunately only you can bring yourself through it, and you must go through it. There is no shortcut around it.

A more important question is… do you have to forgive him??? The answer is no. You don’t. At some point you might, but it should have nothing to do with him. It will happen for you when you’re ready to do it. I can tell you that I have to work to forgive my STBX EVERY DAY. And some days… I just don’t have it in me.

Another question… does forgiveness mean reconciliation? No. It does not. Many people reconcile without truly forgiving. Many people do not reconcile and truly forgive. It takes more than weeks and months to forgive. Maybe you never could. Or maybe you’ll be like me one day where it’s a choice you try to make on a daily basis.

One of the greatest injustices you can do to yourself is pressure yourself to make decisions and try to reconcile right now. You need time, distance, and healing. You might need months before you feel like you can be physically healthy and able to have some normalcy in your thoughts and then decide what decision to make at that point. Don’t pressure yourself and don’t feel one iota of pressure from him. A person does not have the right to blow up your life and then expect one single thing from you. And you do not need to expect one thing from yourself at this point but to try to work through these emotions and pain.

I would like to say, marriage counseling is a joke. It’s a great way for you to be mind ****ed into feeling sorry for the poor poor cheater and his many childhood problems or to be cattle prodded into taking responsibility for him being an ass because of whatever issue they like to throw out there. I’ve even had to straighten up my IC mindset on this subject. So if you feel they are causing more confusion and pain in that area, you really can just let them know you are working on your own trauma right now and you have nothing to say about the marriage and “working on it” at this time.

Anyways. This is a lot of info, keep posting and reading and I think you will find a lot of support and help.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Woundidwife said:


> My husband admitted to a ONS very recently. He has, until this, been the most honest, reliable and trustworthy man I have ever known. I have known about it for about 3 weeks (of PTSD Hell: intrusive thoughts, nightmares, paranoia, insomnia, diarrhea, etc.), and I do not even know how to begin process this situation.
> 
> We were married very young (I was 18 and he was 19). I have never had sex with another person. He had several partners before we were married and now this random stranger. I thought we were married “happily enough”, but if I had a good enough reason to leave, I could leave him…and the one he provided me was a doozy.
> 
> The circumstances are seriously UNBELIEVABLE:
> Two days before our 27th wedding anniversary, I was out of town for work. He was upset with me on a bedtime phone call, so he drove the 20 minutes into town to a bar at about 10:30pm, where as TOGETHER, we normally LEAVE places to be HOME by 10:00pm, because he always has to get up early for work the next day. According to him, he was drunk before he even left for the bar. He claims that he “didn’t know that purchasing drinks for this woman meant that he wanted to sleep with her”. He also “didn’t realize” that she was interested in sex until he said he was leaving and she asked if he wanted to go somewhere. He asked what she meant (yeah right!) and she had already been rubbing his inner thigh, but now touched his junk and told him he knew what she meant. He then said that he knew of a place and told her to follow him! Then they both drove 10 minutes away from the bar, where they had UNPROTECTED sex in her car in a deserted parking lot.
> 
> He told me all of this A MONTH AFTER it happened. (The timing was suspicious, but he says it had been eating him up all month and he “never found a good time to tell me”. I had suddenly been experiencing something like the WORST yeast infection of my life that I couldn’t shake...We have since both been tested—all clear—a month AFTER THE FACT. He tested BEFORE he told me so that he “would have all the answers for my questions when he told me, which means everyone in our doctor’s office knew before I did, and before I was tested!!!)
> 
> I did leave him the day he told me. I stayed with a relative for 3 days. I returned home on the premise that he agreed to leave. He has been agreeable. Because of his efforts, I allowed him to stay and though I am abusing him often with my angry words, it is also nice to let him hold me from time to time. This is messing with my head though. The one who ran my heart through a meat-grinder is the same one comforting me. (Is that screwed up or what?!)
> 
> There is no way to find this woman and I am severely angry and obsessed. He makes no excuses, says he has no idea why he did this, and that it has nothing to do with me. (Pretty hard to believe in light of the circumstances.) He is remorseful and just wants me to heal and return to our now “better than before” relationship.
> 
> I am just not sure what I really want or whether I can forgive this at all. As I said, I have never had sex with anyone else and have always been curious, but have not acted on my curiosity. He says the sex was meaningless (which makes no sense if the same act is supposedly meaningful with me). I almost feel that if I TRY to have “meaningless sex” with another man and CANNOT go through with it, (which I don’t think I even could), that means he is the most despicable pig on the planet to have been able to do that to me, and I should just leave him even though he really is trying to make amends. If I COULD go through with it, that might mean that it is just human nature and that I could forgive him. He had given me his blessing, but fears that I will find that the grass TRULY IS greener on the other side, which I doubt. I think I the experiment would only teach me that I probably cannot and should not forgive him.
> 
> We are already in counseling, both together and separately.
> 
> I am thinking a short, scheduled separation might remind me of the person I used to be before all of this and what I now am beginning to see was our depressing marriage.
> 
> Unfortunately, I feel like I don’t really have a choice but to forgive him. I don’t know any other life, and maybe the grass is worse on the other side, but I never had the chance to even sample it, so I wouldn’t know if I am missing anything or if I already have the best option for me—despite his horrible and DEBILITATING betrayal. I do believe that because of my COMPLETE DEVASTATION I do still love him; but if I want to stay with him, is it because I do still love him and WANT to be with him or because I DON’T KNOW HOW to live without him? How will I even know? I do not think I can make an informed decision. I am not even sure I CAN forgive this!!!!!
> 
> Any advice?


Wow! This situation leaves me speechless. Something from your post leaves me thinking there may be more you may have left out. Why was he upset with you? He did not know purchasing drinks for a woman could lead to? Whoa Nellie. Do not buy that comment. There is only one reason.

Forgiveness, yes you will need to do so, but you do not need to be in a hurry. Take your time. You are in a marathon not a sprint. There is no set timetable for which you must grant this. You are still trying to get your arms around this situation you find yourself in.

Call me skeptical, but I do not think this was his first time. Good that you both are in counseling both IC and MC. However, do not let fear make your decision for you. Emotional decisions typically are not wise decisions. You are going to be riding an emotional roller coaster for a while. Normal.

A polygraph should be considered, as you need to get verification if this was his only instance of betrayal. 

I strongly encourage you to spend time away from him to allow you to think and make decisions you will need to make. Again, there is no timetable as each individual is different. Additionally, focus on you! Stay hydrated, eat healthy, avoid alcohol, and exercise daily. This will help you deal with stress better.

You seem to be fearful, but again, realize you are stronger than you realize. Dig down deep and find that inner strength you will need to move through this. Keep in mind this is a temporary situation. I know it does not seem That way now, but trust me on this.

Lastly, do not let fear dictate your course of action.


----------



## lifeistooshort

QuietRiot said:


> One of the greatest mistakes that we make when we are cheated on is going right to this question. What we actually mean is “How do I make the hurt stop, and how do I make this better.” And the answer to that is… you don’t.
> 
> You need time to process your feelings. He cannot help you do this, and more likely he will keep you from doing this. You are hurting, confused, sad, grieving, betrayed and every other horrific feeling imaginable because of what he did. And unfortunately only you can bring yourself through it, and you must go through it. There is no shortcut around it.
> 
> A more important question is… do you have to forgive him??? The answer is no. You don’t. At some point you might, but it should have nothing to do with him. It will happen for you when you’re ready to do it. I can tell you that I have to work to forgive my STBX EVERY DAY. And some days… I just don’t have it in me.
> 
> Another question… does forgiveness mean reconciliation? No. It does not. Many people reconcile without truly forgiving. Many people do not reconcile and truly forgive. It takes more than weeks and months to forgive. Maybe you never could. Or maybe you’ll be like me one day where it’s a choice you try to make on a daily basis.
> 
> One of the greatest injustices you can do to yourself is pressure yourself to make decisions and try to reconcile right now. You need time, distance, and healing. You might need months before you feel like you can be physically healthy and able to have some normalcy in your thoughts and then decide what decision to make at that point. Don’t pressure yourself and don’t feel one iota of pressure from him. A person does not have the right to blow up your life and then expect one single thing from you. And you do not need to expect one thing from yourself at this point but to try to work through these emotions and pain.
> 
> I would like to say, marriage counseling is a joke. It’s a great way for you to be mind ****ed into feeling sorry for the poor poor cheater and his many childhood problems or to be cattle prodded into taking responsibility for him being an ass because of whatever issue they like to throw out there. I’ve even had to straighten up my IC mindset on this subject. So if you feel they are causing more confusion and pain in that area, you really can just let them know you are working on your own trauma right now and you have nothing to say about the marriage and “working on it” at this time.
> 
> Anyways. This is a lot of info, keep posting and reading and I think you will find a lot of support and help.


This is a great post. You are not in any way obligated to forgive him and once you internalize that you'll realize that the power is yours and you'll think more clearly.

I agree about the marriage counseling too. I tried it amd it's just a way to ******** you into eating the **** sandwich he's feeding you.

Pursue individual counseling to think about whether he's a good prospect for reconciliation and whether you can forgive it. That answer might be no and that needs equal weight. Too often betrayed people start from the assumption thar they must forgive it and stick around. Should you decide to stick around it shouldn't because you told yourself you had to.


----------



## Beach123

You really believed he was all kinds of wonderful.
I think the real question to ask yourself is - how do I feel about this man that I don’t even know?
You really have no idea what he really is/his character/what he’s actually capable of.

He proven he’s not the guy you THOUGHT he WAS.

you also may not even like this version of who he actually is.

First off - he’s a blatant liar who is completely responsible for a whole string of terrible decisions he’s made. He went to great lengths over several hours to purposely cause you harm.

I would NEVER call that an honest/reliable/trustworthy husband.


----------



## Openminded

I think you’ll stay. The problem is that you’ll never know 100% whether he’s faithful going forward. Before, you may have not given it much thought. After, you absolutely will. You’ll never again trust him the way you once did and you shouldn’t. Reconciliation is a tough road. It’s the most difficult thing you will ever do and it can fail at any time. Some do succeed but many don’t. Look out for you.


----------



## sokillme

Cheaters lie and they are well practiced, the story seems unbelievable because it's not the true story. There is more, there is always more.

Always faithful middle aged husband gets drunk at a bar, too drunk to figure out that there just happens to be a women there who wants to have a ONS with his drunken middle aged self. Nope, that never happened. Do yourself a favor, see if you can get hands on his phone and see what his text say. I bet either he knew this women or worse. 

Now maybe if your husband is George Clooney but somehow I doubt it.

Before you figure out HOW you can forgive him you need to figure out SHOULD you forgive him, in the sense that I suspect there is a lot more then you know.


----------



## frusdil

I also just want to add that you don't have to make any decisions right now OP. This is one of those core shaking life moments, an event that has split your life into two parts - life before and life after this event. That warrants time. He doesn't get to dictate that time or how long it is. You need to focus 100% on you and your life x


----------



## gameopoly5

Woundidwife said:


> He says he now realizes how much he loves me. I am pissed that THIS is what it took to become the man I always wanted him to be. Not sure how to begin forgiveness—if I even can.


This is fact:
Society perceives women cheating as more taboo than men cheating.
Rightly or wrongly that`s the way it is and has always been.
Cheating is a human condition, not a mistake but a choice people make.
Women have more to lose than men when they choose to cheat because when men choose to cheat it`s usually just lust, they may still love their wives in the majority of cases and if caught there is still hope for the marriage.
When women cheat it becomes more emotional and means they are either checking out from the marriage or have already mentally and emotionally checked out from the marriage, that makes it much more difficult to save the marriage.
If men choose to cheat it's an idiotic choice but there is still hope for the marriage if coming to terms they had been classic fools.
So now you have to decide whether to call time or except your husband for the fool he has been and probably not one of the most intelligent guys in the world and give him one more chance.
I know being a cheated on spouse is soul destroying, I`ve been there, but do read carefully my post and have a deep think about your way forward from here.
Personally, I hope you can somehow put this behind you, even if not forgetting or forgiving and have a prosperous future together.


----------



## snowbum

Please think about the situation. You were at work, a very responsible adult thing to do. He got mad and made assumptions. You wanted to talk things through, again mature. He gets irate, hangs up on you and gets drunk. In a drunken state he goes to a bar and hits on women. He then finds a place to have sex ( unprotected) and hides it for weeks. He gets tested before telling you which means he knows what he did was wrong. All of this is crap.
Please don’t buy it’s the other woman’s fault as you seem to do on the other thread. She didn’t make him call you a liar. She didn’t make him drive drunk ( illegally) and approach a woman he’s not married to . He could have had conversation and left. He could have told her he was married. He could have rejected her. He went out looking. That’s the fact. If he’s not a cheater he wouldn’t have bought drinks and stayed after she asked him to go somewhere. He’s not worth another minute.


----------



## snowbum

Love the guys saying it’s no big deal and doesn’t mean much. Bull crap. Not to them. So what? Why should a woman stay with a sad excuse of a man that can’t control himself around home sluts? That’s a pathetic excuse ,men love the women they screw around on”. Nope . Men don’t want the hassle of a woman calling BS and moving on. Anyone saying cheating is no biggie Is likely a cheater themself . Have a long marriage with s liar? Wtf?


----------



## Woundidwife

He didn’t approach her. She sat next to him. Very closely, and then chipped away at what little defense he apparently had. He has defense now: That’s the same thing MY WIFE says. That and knowing he will LOSE EVERYTHING if this ever happens again…assuming I CAN forgive him and continue the relationship.

He has already agreed never to go to a bar again, will only drink at home (I will amend that to only IN MY PRESENCE), and not talk to any other women ever or even allowing “friendly” hugs ever. (I was already a jealous person, so this has me at the limits of insanity!) Obviously, his brain is too small to go out unsupervised.


----------



## snowbum

Are you talking to a professional? I think that would be good. You cant keep your husband under what is house arrest. If you have to be with him 24/7 to keep him faithful that’s not a marriage.
You said she sat by him. He didn’t have to feed her drinks. He didn’t have to leave with her. If his control is that low he’s going to cheat again and likely has before. 
I get being mad. I’d be so pissed I’d have a new address, new phone, and he’d be history, too each their own but stalking the town and not allowing your husband freedom is not a reasonable response.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> He didn’t approach her. She sat next to him. Very closely, and then chipped away at what little defense he apparently had.


Be careful with believing him on these points. He intentionally left the house late at night and went to a bar for a reason. And now in the aftermath he was somehow the victim? I'm a guy and I don't buy it. It doesn't work like that. What was the woman's motivation, just to get laid? Hmmm. Unless your husband’s name is Leonardo Dicaprio then I am calling BS.

This matters because if he is lying to you about these details then he is not truly ready to reconcile and you are at risk for future reoccurances. If he is lying about these details, then in the back of his mind he knows he can shape a story that lets him get away with it. You get mad sure, maybe add some rules that he can “forget” when he wants, but that's all that happens.

Don't let a BS story fly.


----------



## Woundidwife

I am. I do realize I am on the verge of going off the deep end.


----------



## lifeistooshort

You're making excuses for him. Poor vulnerable man just can't say no to evil woman. If you police him properly and he never talks to women the poor victim might not be taken advantage of again.

You can't reconcile in a healthy manner if you refuse to acknowledge who and what he is.

I hope this works out for you.


----------



## Openminded

I’m saying this as a former betrayed wife … you’ll never again trust him the way you did before he proved that he wasn’t deserving of that trust. That’s a tough thing to live with. I wish you well.


----------



## 342693

Said it before.....adultery is a red line you don't cross. If you stay with him, it will torment YOU for the rest of your life. You will always wonder if he's cheating again. Know your worth and find a man that will never betray you.


----------



## Twodecades

Woundidwife said:


> He didn’t approach her. She sat next to him. Very closely, and then chipped away at what little defense he apparently had. He has defense now: That’s the same thing MY WIFE says. That and knowing he will LOSE EVERYTHING if this ever happens again…assuming I CAN forgive him and continue the relationship.
> 
> He has already agreed never to go to a bar again, will only drink at home (I will amend that to only IN MY PRESENCE), and not talk to any other women ever or even allowing “friendly” hugs ever. (I was already a jealous person, so this has me at the limits of insanity!) Obviously, his brain is too small to go out unsupervised.


Gently, why didn't he have healthy boundaries BEFORE this? He is not a teenager. He must be in his later 40s, creeping towards 50. He shouldn't have to be told not to go out drinking (especially when he is fighting with his wife) and pick up women. 

You say you tended to be jealous; I cannot help but wonder if he did this because he knew this was the thing that would hurt you most (which, incidentally, is what rebellious teenagers do). It sounds intentional, from start to finish, even if he isn't willing to admit it. He could have went and blown money on something you would have been upset about or watched TV for days and left the house a mess for when you got back. He could have thrown out your favorite sweater/knick knack/thingawhatever that he hates. But he went out and did THIS because he was angry. 

I'm afraid if you both think this was happenstance, you have merely skimmed the surface and are in for a lot of pain down the road.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Woundidwife said:


> He didn’t approach her. She sat next to him. Very closely, and then chipped away at what little defense he apparently had. He has defense now: That’s the same thing MY WIFE says. That and knowing he will LOSE EVERYTHING if this ever happens again…assuming I CAN forgive him and continue the relationship.
> 
> He has already agreed never to go to a bar again, will only drink at home (I will amend that to only IN MY PRESENCE), and not talk to any other women ever or even allowing “friendly” hugs ever. (I was already a jealous person, so this has me at the limits of insanity!) Obviously, his brain is too small to go out unsupervised.


Are you prepared to be the marriage police for the rest of your life? Every time he is out of your sight there will be some doubt about what he is really doing. Can you live with the fact that even if you forgive him you will never forget that he chose to stick his penis in another woman? A woman he knew only hours, pretty much a complete stranger. He wasn't some helpless victim. He had many, many opportunities to remember he has a wife of 27 years, yet he chose to let her chip away and inappropriately touch him. Do you want to be married to a man that has "brain is too small to go out unsupervised"?


----------



## Rus47

Woundidwife said:


> He didn’t approach her. She sat next to him. Very closely, and then chipped away at what little defense he apparently had. He has defense now: That’s the same thing MY WIFE says. That and knowing he will LOSE EVERYTHING if this ever happens again…assuming I CAN forgive him and continue the relationship.
> 
> He has already agreed never to go to a bar again, will only drink at home (I will amend that to only IN MY PRESENCE), and not talk to any other women ever or even allowing “friendly” hugs ever. (I was already a jealous person, so this has me at the limits of insanity!) Obviously, his brain is too small to go out unsupervised.


The problem is you have to police him 24x7. What happens next time you are out of town on business? How much will just going on business going to trigger you? The trust is gone, burned to the ground.

IMO you are still too raw from this to make any decisions about the marriage future. At minimum, suggest finding good divorce attorney to determine how that would go and how long it would take. Maybe separation for awhile (him leave the house) would help you mentally.

You have all time you need to plan your life post D day.


----------



## elliblue

Woundidwife said:


> My husband admitted to a ONS very recently. He has, until this, been the most honest, reliable and trustworthy man I have ever known. I have known about it for about 3 weeks (of PTSD Hell: intrusive thoughts, nightmares, paranoia, insomnia, diarrhea, etc.), and I do not even know how to begin process this situation.
> 
> We were married very young (I was 18 and he was 19). I have never had sex with another person. He had several partners before we were married and now this random stranger. I thought we were married “happily enough”, but if I had a good enough reason to leave, I could leave him…and the one he provided me was a doozy.
> 
> The circumstances are seriously UNBELIEVABLE:
> Two days before our 27th wedding anniversary, I was out of town for work. He was upset with me on a bedtime phone call, so he drove the 20 minutes into town to a bar at about 10:30pm, where as TOGETHER, we normally LEAVE places to be HOME by 10:00pm, because he always has to get up early for work the next day. According to him, he was drunk before he even left for the bar. He claims that he “didn’t know that purchasing drinks for this woman meant that he wanted to sleep with her”. He also “didn’t realize” that she was interested in sex until he said he was leaving and she asked if he wanted to go somewhere. He asked what she meant (yeah right!) and she had already been rubbing his inner thigh, but now touched his junk and told him he knew what she meant. He then said that he knew of a place and told her to follow him! Then they both drove 10 minutes away from the bar, where they had UNPROTECTED sex in her car in a deserted parking lot.
> 
> He told me all of this A MONTH AFTER it happened. (The timing was suspicious, but he says it had been eating him up all month and he “never found a good time to tell me”. I had suddenly been experiencing something like the WORST yeast infection of my life that I couldn’t shake...We have since both been tested—all clear—a month AFTER THE FACT. He tested BEFORE he told me so that he “would have all the answers for my questions when he told me, which means everyone in our doctor’s office knew before I did, and before I was tested!!!)
> 
> I did leave him the day he told me. I stayed with a relative for 3 days. I returned home on the premise that he agreed to leave. He has been agreeable. Because of his efforts, I allowed him to stay and though I am abusing him often with my angry words, it is also nice to let him hold me from time to time. This is messing with my head though. The one who ran my heart through a meat-grinder is the same one comforting me. (Is that screwed up or what?!)
> 
> There is no way to find this woman and I am severely angry and obsessed. He makes no excuses, says he has no idea why he did this, and that it has nothing to do with me. (Pretty hard to believe in light of the circumstances.) He is remorseful and just wants me to heal and return to our now “better than before” relationship.
> 
> I am just not sure what I really want or whether I can forgive this at all. As I said, I have never had sex with anyone else and have always been curious, but have not acted on my curiosity. He says the sex was meaningless (which makes no sense if the same act is supposedly meaningful with me). I almost feel that if I TRY to have “meaningless sex” with another man and CANNOT go through with it, (which I don’t think I even could), that means he is the most despicable pig on the planet to have been able to do that to me, and I should just leave him even though he really is trying to make amends. If I COULD go through with it, that might mean that it is just human nature and that I could forgive him. He had given me his blessing, but fears that I will find that the grass TRULY IS greener on the other side, which I doubt. I think I the experiment would only teach me that I probably cannot and should not forgive him.
> 
> We are already in counseling, both together and separately.
> 
> I am thinking a short, scheduled separation might remind me of the person I used to be before all of this and what I now am beginning to see was our depressing marriage.
> 
> Unfortunately, I feel like I don’t really have a choice but to forgive him. I don’t know any other life, and maybe the grass is worse on the other side, but I never had the chance to even sample it, so I wouldn’t know if I am missing anything or if I already have the best option for me—despite his horrible and DEBILITATING betrayal. I do believe that because of my COMPLETE DEVASTATION I do still love him; but if I want to stay with him, is it because I do still love him and WANT to be with him or because I DON’T KNOW HOW to live without him? How will I even know? I do not think I can make an informed decision. I am not even sure I CAN forgive this!!!!!
> 
> Any advice?


Seriously, he slept with a random woman he just met and asked him to have a f***? Unprotected.
Who knows with how many men this woman has every day and that day? 

Now you know your boyfriend has low barriers. Soon or later he's going to sleep with prostitutes, if didn't already in the past.
He is able to put his chunk into any filthy hole.

You are a fool if you keep this guy. He isn't capable to put his and you safety first for 5 minutes with a nymphomanic woman he met in a parking lot. Go and wait in that parkkng lot, this is where you'll find her. She is doing this regularly. There are sick people like that that meet at a parking lot to pick up strangers for unprotected sex. Women do that stuff too.

And I think he just told you, because he may have found out or been told this woman might have HIV or because he had symptoms and his doctor tols him to tell you.

This wierd infection you had might be a result of your immunsystem fighting something or being distracted by somwthing. The lnfection could have been therefore caused by your own bacteria you carry in your genitals as an result of inbalance.

By this I mean it is only 4 weeks, you are not cleared yet from the possibility he gave you HIV he got from her.
It takes a couple of months to be complete sure. 
If you were clever you would stop being with him and srop sleeping with him. He is also not clear from being infected with HIV. This woman was a high risk contact.
Even if he didn't give you HIV before he told you everything, it can still happen.

Stop thinking now about your relationship and keep thinkikg about your health. 

I am not certain about how long it takes to be sure a person hasn't been infected with HIV. Maybe it is quicker today, but from what I know it takes a couple of months to be 100% sure. 
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't give advice on how to keep such irresponsible partners.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> He didn’t approach her. She sat next to him. Very closely, and then chipped away at what little defense he apparently had. He has defense now: That’s the same thing MY WIFE says. That and knowing he will LOSE EVERYTHING if this ever happens again…assuming I CAN forgive him and continue the relationship.
> 
> He has already agreed never to go to a bar again, will only drink at home (I will amend that to only IN MY PRESENCE), and not talk to any other women ever or even allowing “friendly” hugs ever. (I was already a jealous person, so this has me at the limits of insanity!) Obviously, his brain is too small to go out unsupervised.


Yes, according to male cheaters they are innocent lambs, led to slaughter by the evil, horrible seductress. It literally took him what, an hour of her “magic” to fall victim to her ways? That’s the husband you have. 

You’re trying to put Humpty together again when he isn’t even done shattering. Even though you want a successful reconciliation, this isn’t the way my friend.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Woundidwife said:


> He wasn’t caught. He confessed. It was the perfect crime. I NEVER would have known.


You wouldn't know about the other times, either, he told you this time why? To humiliate you? To punish you? None of those options make him a good person. He is not a good person because he confessed, he did that for selfish reasons the same way he slept with that other woman for selfish reasons. He's blaming her and you for HIS behavior, and if you find out it's happened a lot, he will blame you and those women as well. 

When someone tells you who they are, believe them. If you stay with him, you're in for a lifetime of humiliation and betrayal. Some things are worse than being alone.


----------



## Beach123

Woundidwife said:


> He didn’t approach her. She sat next to him. Very closely, and then chipped away at what little defense he apparently had. He has defense now: That’s the same thing MY WIFE says. That and knowing he will LOSE EVERYTHING if this ever happens again…assuming I CAN forgive him and continue the relationship.
> 
> He has already agreed never to go to a bar again, will only drink at home (I will amend that to only IN MY PRESENCE), and not talk to any other women ever or even allowing “friendly” hugs ever. (I was already a jealous person, so this has me at the limits of insanity!) Obviously, his brain is too small to go out unsupervised.


Why are you making excuses for him?
And why would YOU need to place all of these guidelines around him?
He knew what was expected - fidelity! He made so many conscious choices to actually have sex with another woman in the car! Gross!
He will do it again!
fidelity comes from within - you can’t MAKE another person have a moral compass - once they have proven they don’t have one - it’s obvious that policing that person isn’t what it takes to make it work.

he’s definitely NOT the guy you ever thought he WAS!!!
All he needs is an EXCUSE To do it again - and that he will blame you for again next time - like picking a fight with you about nothing (typical cheater move).
HIS choice to cheat is NOT your fault! He’s a manipulative liar who wants to blame someone else.

stop making excuses for HIS crappy behavior!

honestly - this sounds as if it’s a scenario he’s done before. Think about how easy it was for him to just betray you. No thought at all about your feelings! What a selfish, self centered jerk.


----------



## re16

Woundidwife said:


> He didn’t approach her. She sat next to him. Very closely, and then chipped away at what little defense he apparently had.


You should tell him that a condition of moving forward is that he is going to be polygraphed, and that you expect him to tell you everything now, before the polygraph so you don't have further trauma down the road from finding more information (which happens often).

See if his story changes. (hint: it will)


----------



## uwe.blab

Woundidwife said:


> He didn’t approach her. She sat next to him. Very closely, and then chipped away at what little defense he apparently had. He has defense now: That’s the same thing MY WIFE says. That and knowing he will LOSE EVERYTHING if this ever happens again…assuming I CAN forgive him and continue the relationship.
> 
> He has already agreed never to go to a bar again, will only drink at home (I will amend that to only IN MY PRESENCE), and not talk to any other women ever or even allowing “friendly” hugs ever. (I was already a jealous person, so this has me at the limits of insanity!) Obviously, his brain is too small to go out unsupervised.


Wait, you realize that is what he told you and not necessarily what happened, right? Do not put these statements out here as facts. You have no idea if he approached her or not. You need to be aware of that and admit that to yourself.


----------



## Trident

TexasMom1216 said:


> You wouldn't know about the other times, either, he told you this time why? To humiliate you? To punish you?


Would you stop already with the whole "This isn't the only time" crap? You said it earlier on this thread, with no supporting basis whatsoever, you apologized for it and here you go again.

Not the least bit helpful and not necessarily the least bit true. It almost sounds like you're trying to inflict further pain by making suggestions about things that are completely unsubstantiated.


----------



## Sfort

He broke his most sacred of vows (forsaking all others). However, now you think he will not break his much-less sacred vow (forsaking all others _again_). At least you're aware. You probably have to give him one more chance to satisfy yourself that it wasn't a one-off thing. Take re16's advice and have him take a polygraph. We know you won't do it, but do at least consider it. You're being played like a violin.


----------



## Openminded

My exH claimed he was pursued. I guess he thought that made it better. It didn’t.


----------



## uwe.blab

I never said 'this wasn't the only time'.


----------



## Openminded

And you need to stop assuming that your husband is totally telling the truth. Cheaters tend to deflect so they don’t look as bad. In other words, they usually lie about what really happened.


----------



## Beach123

He sure was quick to “know a place to go”
He didn’t even have to stop to think of a place… he was ready with the place to meet. Seems like he had intent.

I’d want a polygraph for sure! For this event and to see if he’s done this before.


----------



## Beach123

Why did he confess?
It looks like it was to relieve himself of his guilt and to cause you harm - MORE harm.

love doesn’t ever look like this!


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> My husband admitted to a ONS very recently. He has, until this, been the most honest, reliable and trustworthy man I have ever known. I have known about it for about 3 weeks (of PTSD Hell: intrusive thoughts, nightmares, paranoia, insomnia, diarrhea, etc.), and I do not even know how to begin process this situation.
> 
> We were married very young (I was 18 and he was 19). I have never had sex with another person. He had several partners before we were married and now this random stranger. I thought we were married “happily enough”, but if I had a good enough reason to leave, I could leave him…and the one he provided me was a doozy.
> 
> The circumstances are seriously UNBELIEVABLE:
> Two days before our 27th wedding anniversary, I was out of town for work. He was upset with me on a bedtime phone call, so he drove the 20 minutes into town to a bar at about 10:30pm, where as TOGETHER, we normally LEAVE places to be HOME by 10:00pm, because he always has to get up early for work the next day. According to him, he was drunk before he even left for the bar. He claims that he “didn’t know that purchasing drinks for this woman meant that he wanted to sleep with her”. He also “didn’t realize” that she was interested in sex until he said he was leaving and she asked if he wanted to go somewhere. He asked what she meant (yeah right!) and she had already been rubbing his inner thigh, but now touched his junk and told him he knew what she meant. He then said that he knew of a place and told her to follow him! Then they both drove 10 minutes away from the bar, where they had UNPROTECTED sex in her car in a deserted parking lot.
> 
> He told me all of this A MONTH AFTER it happened. (The timing was suspicious, but he says it had been eating him up all month and he “never found a good time to tell me”. I had suddenly been experiencing something like the WORST yeast infection of my life that I couldn’t shake...We have since both been tested—all clear—a month AFTER THE FACT. He tested BEFORE he told me so that he “would have all the answers for my questions when he told me, which means everyone in our doctor’s office knew before I did, and before I was tested!!!)
> 
> I did leave him the day he told me. I stayed with a relative for 3 days. I returned home on the premise that he agreed to leave. He has been agreeable. Because of his efforts, I allowed him to stay and though I am abusing him often with my angry words, it is also nice to let him hold me from time to time. This is messing with my head though. The one who ran my heart through a meat-grinder is the same one comforting me. (Is that screwed up or what?!)
> 
> There is no way to find this woman and I am severely angry and obsessed. He makes no excuses, says he has no idea why he did this, and that it has nothing to do with me. (Pretty hard to believe in light of the circumstances.) He is remorseful and just wants me to heal and return to our now “better than before” relationship.
> 
> I am just not sure what I really want or whether I can forgive this at all. As I said, I have never had sex with anyone else and have always been curious, but have not acted on my curiosity. He says the sex was meaningless (which makes no sense if the same act is supposedly meaningful with me). I almost feel that if I TRY to have “meaningless sex” with another man and CANNOT go through with it, (which I don’t think I even could), that means he is the most despicable pig on the planet to have been able to do that to me, and I should just leave him even though he really is trying to make amends. If I COULD go through with it, that might mean that it is just human nature and that I could forgive him. He had given me his blessing, but fears that I will find that the grass TRULY IS greener on the other side, which I doubt. I think I the experiment would only teach me that I probably cannot and should not forgive him.
> 
> We are already in counseling, both together and separately.
> 
> I am thinking a short, scheduled separation might remind me of the person I used to be before all of this and what I now am beginning to see was our depressing marriage.
> 
> Unfortunately, I feel like I don’t really have a choice but to forgive him. I don’t know any other life, and maybe the grass is worse on the other side, but I never had the chance to even sample it, so I wouldn’t know if I am missing anything or if I already have the best option for me—despite his horrible and DEBILITATING betrayal. I do believe that because of my COMPLETE DEVASTATION I do still love him; but if I want to stay with him, is it because I do still love him and WANT to be with him or because I DON’T KNOW HOW to live without him? How will I even know? I do not think I can make an informed decision. I am not even sure I CAN forgive this!!!!!
> 
> Any advice?


I thought my exH was the most honest decent man too when he preemptively told me he cut off inappropriate behavior with a coworker, did the whole R, MC, just to fund out a year later it was a full blown affair.

He's looked at you every day since and lied to your face, why is his confession suddenly 100% truth?

I'm really sorry you're dealing with this. I've been there and then some. It'll take some time for you to even figure out what you want for yourself. In the meantime, ask yourself a few questions...
Would you have done this to him?
If not, why not?
Why do you deserve less consideration and a defective partner who sh1t all over your marriage vows?

Take your time to sort through your feelings, OP. You're under no obligation to make him feel better for what he did. Please see a therapist to help you figure things out and see a lawyer for your rights.

You're a working woman, you don't need to swallow his crap. Loving him means nothing if he doesn't love and respect you enough to keep his vows


----------



## 342693

People don't stop having affairs when caught...they just get better at hiding them. Why anyone would put up with it in a marriage is beyond me. Very low self-esteem I assume.


----------



## Megaforce

Not said:


> You don’t have to do anything right now. It’s going to be enough just making it through each day for a while. Do what you need to do to take care of yourself and if that means asking him to leave then do that. Baby steps.


I have never really forgiven. And, I am not rotting inside from it or obsessed etc. Some people can accept this, a tarnished marriage. I could not perform the mental gymnastics I would have needed to get past it. 
It was very scary, but divorced. I am glad I did. I know myself. I know I would have resented my XW forever. I am sure anytime I was reminded of having forgotten to take out the garbage, I' would have brought up her cheating.
So, best thing I can think of to tell you is to try to get a handle on your capacity to tolerate this and get past it. There is no shame if it is just too great an offense for you.
Many very forgiving non grudge holding folks under normal circumstances are incapable of getting past this particular offense. It is such a deep betrayal, making one question their attractiveness, desirab, performance, ability to satisfy etc. that it is no wonder some societies consider adultery to be one of the gravest offenses.
I remained faithful during my sexual prime, when I was quite physically attractive, tolerating a virtual,sexless marriage, thinking my wife was depressed due to one of our children's disability. Who knows, maybe she was but she chose to medicate herself with booze and serial cheating. Just intolerable to me and I had no desire to go through the rest of my life resenting someone I had once cherished. 
On another note, due to having read so many infidelity stories and talking to a lot of betrayed spouse, as well as researching, I join with others who fee it is very unlikely that this confession stemmed from feeling guilt. Something or someone or some situation is looming out there which has motivated him to do a pre-emptive confession to get out ahead of this.
Do you really think this was a random stranger? Is your husband so attractive that a stranger would just up and have sex with him? Is it likely that a spat between two longtime married partners would result in his getting intoxicated and just heading out to a bar?
You, yourself sound intelligent, articulate etc. Presumably, your husband is, at least roughly, your equal in terms of smarts and sophistication. How could it be possible he was unaware buying the woman drinks was an overture? How did he know, on short notice, just where to find an appropriate secluded spot?
See, there are all types of questions like this that call his version into question. I made my living for decades questioning folks about apparent inconsistencies and things that seemed upon examination unlikely. Given time, I think I co UK ld come up wi tu h at least a few more that poke holes in his story or at least cast doubt.
One final thing I have learned: contrary to what I used to believe, and contrary to the impression I, initially, got from reading all these discovery stories the vast majority of affairs go undetected forever. Just like most homicides go unsolved( again contrary to common perception).
You know of one. Your relationship has been for decades. What are the odds that you just happen to know about the one and only episode. 
Obviously, you know your husband( to some extent, anywayg). Is he really the type who would feel so guilty , that he would voluntarily confess? Was he really so unevolved , that he would expect yountonaccept and be comforted by his claiming it was just sex? Surely, he has to know your values wo yo ld not find this acceptable or mitigating in any way.
Does he think you are so unintelligent that you would not see the absurdity in his claim that this made him realize how much he loves you? Why on earth would cheating make anyone realize they really loved their spouse? How, exactly does that wotk?


----------



## Trident

SCDad01 said:


> People don't stop having affairs when caught...they just get better at hiding them.


All of them? Who knew.


----------



## Beach123

I too, forgave when he cheated at the ten year mark. After much counseling together because he “was SO sorry” I came to understand MY boundary - ok, I’ll continue with the marriage you ruined - then one you keep trying to repair. BUT - you do it again - even something that looks remotely close to this again and I will divorce you without even discussing it with you.
I found out again at the 20 year mark - blatant cheating. Gifts for her galore too.
So I divorced him. I’ve never regretted leaving him! His 3rd wife is now divorcing him after 12 years together… for guess what? Yep, he cheated - he just doesn’t know how to NOT cheat!

you can stay = you have no idea if he will do it again - or not.

I wish I hadn’t wasted another 10 years based on the fact that he knew he wasn’t capable of being who I needed him to be.


----------



## Gabriel

Trident said:


> All of them? Who knew.


LOL, love it.

I find it funny when people assume all cheaters are serial in nature, or have done 100x more bad things than they are letting on.....just because it happened to them.


----------



## re16

Beach123 said:


> I too, forgave when he cheated at the ten year mark. After much counseling together because he “was SO sorry” I came to understand MY boundary - ok, I’ll continue with the marriage you ruined - then one you keep trying to repair. BUT - you do it again - even something that looks remotely close to this again and I will divorce you without even discussing it with you.
> I found out again at the 20 year mark - blatant cheating. Gifts for her galore too.
> So I divorced him. I’ve never regretted leaving him! His 3rd wife is now divorcing him after 12 years together… for guess what? Yep, he cheated - he just doesn’t know how to NOT cheat!
> 
> you can stay = you have no idea if he will do it again - or not.


That is awful, and seems all too familiar around here.

There is no education in the second kick of a mule.


----------



## re16

Gabriel said:


> I find it funny when people assume all cheaters are serial in nature


Wait, you're saying some aren't serial?


----------



## Trident

Gabriel said:


> LOL, love it.
> 
> I find it funny when people assume all cheaters are serial in nature, or have done 100x more bad things than they are letting on.....just because it happened to them.


You know what they say about generalizations, they're always right.


----------



## Jimi007

Beating this poor woman to death isn't helping her...I'm sure by now she gets it..
Stop projecting your own BS onto her. No wonder ONS posters never return. It's all been said like a hundred times. I'm sure she's not stupid. She knows what she has. 
She knows what she has to do for herself. 
@Woundidwife


----------



## Beach123

No one said she’s stupid. No one is beating her to death!

pointing out what she may be experiencing in her future if she stays has merit.


----------



## Megaforce

re16 said:


> Wait, you're saying some aren't serial?


To me, serial, non- serial, does not matter. Both entail lying their asses off, abuse, exposing one to disease etc.


----------



## Woundidwife

What was the book that was suggested in this thread? I can’t find it now. =(


----------



## ConanHub

snowbum said:


> Love the guys saying it’s no big deal and doesn’t mean much.


I missed these guys? I saw one poster say that men cheating is different than women but he didn't call it no big deal.

I would love to call these guys out but I missed them.

Help?


----------



## ConanHub

SCDad01 said:


> People don't stop having affairs when caught...they just get better at hiding them. Why anyone would put up with it in a marriage is beyond me. Very low self-esteem I assume.


OP's husband did confess and wasn't caught. LoL.

ONS's do happen quite a lot and most do not confess.

It's crappy behavior but there are quite a number of people who have had a one off, felt terrible and never repeated it. Very few confess however.


----------



## bobert

Woundidwife said:


> What was the book that was suggested in this thread? I can’t find it now. =(


"How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald was (at least one) mentioned.


----------



## TexasMom1216

snowbum said:


> Love the guys saying it’s no big deal and doesn’t mean much. Bull crap. Not to them. So what? Why should a woman stay with a sad excuse of a man that can’t control himself around home sluts? That’s a pathetic excuse ,*men love the women they screw around on”*. Nope . Men don’t want the hassle of a woman calling BS and moving on. Anyone saying cheating is no biggie Is likely a cheater themself . Have a long marriage with s liar? Wtf?


Men do not love the women they screw around on. Full stop.


gameopoly5 said:


> Women have more to lose than men when they choose to cheat because w*hen men choose to cheat it`s usually just lust, they may still love their wives in the majority of cases and if caught there is still hope for the marriage.*


It's "just lust." "It's different with you cause I luurrvveee you." That's insultingly stupid and transparent.


gameopoly5 said:


> *When women cheat it becomes more emotional *and means they are either checking out from the marriage or have already mentally and emotionally checked out from the marriage, that makes it much more difficult to save the marriage.
> *If men choose to cheat it's an idiotic choice but there is still hope for the marriage* if coming to terms they had been classic fools.


So it's harder for guys to get over it because women do it for serious reasons (that affect the man's ego) but with men it's just an oopsie so women should get over it.


gameopoly5 said:


> Personally, *I hope you can somehow put this behind you*


He really hopes she can do the right thing and just shut up and get over it. Holy crap. This is good advice? Wow.


----------



## ConanHub

Megaforce said:


> To me, serial, non- serial, does not matter. Both entail lying their asses off, abuse, exposing one to disease etc.


Exposing me to the possibility of a disease would probably be a deal breaker but if I ever could get through infidelity, it would be some weird situational one off. Confession and contriteness would go a long way.


----------



## TexasMom1216

re16 said:


> There is no education in the second kick of a mule.


This is the best advice on this whole thread.


----------



## ConanHub

QuietRiot said:


> Yes, according to male cheaters they are innocent lambs, led to slaughter by the evil, horrible seductress. It literally took him what, an hour of her “magic” to fall victim to her ways? That’s the husband you have.
> 
> You’re trying to put Humpty together again when he isn’t even done shattering. Even though you want a successful reconciliation, this isn’t the way my friend.


Aside from the blatantly sexist tone in this post, I agree.


----------



## CallingDrLove

TexasMom1216 said:


> I never said a single thing to back up anything you’ve said here. If any other poster said what I said you’d have left it alone. You’re attacking me because you want to pick a fight and have me banned. You saw my name on a post and started screaming “man hater”. Probably didn’t even read what I posted.


You obviously didn’t even read her post since you are telling her to get tested for STDs which she said she did in the first post.


----------



## QuietRiot

ConanHub said:


> Aside from the blatantly sexist tone in this post, I agree.


I can go over the stupid crap female cheaters say if you would like? They are usually the ones screaming they were forced or drugged. Since we are talking to a betrayed wife, didn’t think that would matter. Though it is good to note if this woman turns up having cheated on her husband and then that guy comes searching for the dude that took advantage of his poor, poor wife.


----------



## Beach123

bobert said:


> "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald was (at least one) mentioned.


this would be a book for her HUSBAND to read and to take action on - to benefit her…since he is the one who caused the harm to her.

will your H be willing to read the book? Do the work needed to help you feel safe in your marriage?

it is about action. Is he capable of that?


----------



## bobert

Beach123 said:


> this would be a book for her HUSBAND to read and to take action on - to benefit her…since he is the one who caused the harm to her.
> 
> will your H be willing to read the book? Do the work needed to help you feel safe in your marriage?
> 
> it is about action. Is he capable of that?


You're right that her husband is the one who should read it but it's also good for her to read, so she can see what he should be doing.


----------



## Beach123

Believe me - a betrayed spouse knows fully well when the one who cheated is handing them peace of mind on a silver platter.

I don’t disagree - she should read it - but not because she should make effort for what he did. They effort to repair the damage he caused falls totally and only on him to do that work.

if he won’t read it - it really shows he’s not planning to do a thing to change.


----------



## bobert

Beach123 said:


> Believe me - a betrayed spouse knows fully well when the one who cheated is handing them peace of mind on a silver platter.
> 
> I don’t disagree - she should read it - but not because she should make effort for what he did. They effort to repair the damage he caused falls totally and only on him to do that work.
> 
> if he won’t read it - it really shows he’s not planning to do a thing to change.


I agree. He should be doing the work right now, not her, and it would be better if he was taking the initiative and doing it on his own.


----------



## sokillme

Woundidwife said:


> He didn’t approach her. She sat next to him. Very closely, and then chipped away at what little defense he apparently had. He has defense now: That’s the same thing MY WIFE says. That and knowing he will LOSE EVERYTHING if this ever happens again…assuming I CAN forgive him and continue the relationship.
> 
> He has already agreed never to go to a bar again, will only drink at home (I will amend that to only IN MY PRESENCE), and not talk to any other women ever or even allowing “friendly” hugs ever. (I was already a jealous person, so this has me at the limits of insanity!) Obviously, his brain is too small to go out unsupervised.


Don't believe this AT ALL.


----------



## frusdil

Woundidwife said:


> He didn’t approach her. She sat next to him. Very closely, and then chipped away at what little defense he apparently had.


That changes nothing honey. It doesn't matter what she did, only what he did. It wouldn't matter if she climbed into his lap completely starkers, he should have pushed her away, told her he's married and that he loves his wife.

Stop making excuses for him. He is not a victim.


----------



## frusdil

Beach123 said:


> He knew what was expected - fidelity!


Exactly! He didn't even had to do anything! All he had to "do" was not do something. Its so easy!


----------



## Woundidwife

Yes. He is willing to tead it. He has been researching every day ways to help me. I came home earlier than he expected me one day last week, and he was blubbering as badly as I do. He said he has been doing that every day, but makes sure that I don’t see it: that he is trying to be strong for me so that he can help me heal from this monumental betrayal. He knows he likely lost me forever, nbut is still trying to help me heal in order to one day try to salvage our marriage, even though I am unsure that I will be able to continue the relationship. I am still in disbelief and tomorrow will be a month since I have known. I am still very physically ill and have full days where I can barely function. I cannot reconcile the man I knew with the actions he took. Un.f****ing believable! Thank you all for the supportive posts (and for repeating the book title). I really can’t handle much more negativity right now. I am pretty fragile and like someone said, don’t need the beating. I knowthe situation I am in. This was NEVER supposed to happen, but now, I am expected to try to forgive the unthinkable. Not sure that I am even capable of that.


----------



## Beach123

You need to heal on your own timeline. Not one that “is expected of you”.

Why is this expected? Who expects it? How could you at this point? Most successful reconciliations can take 5 years or more.
It may be best to understand you need to process this in your own timeline - not what anyone else expects from you.


----------



## ConanHub

QuietRiot said:


> I can go over the stupid crap female cheaters say if you would like? They are usually the ones screaming they were forced or drugged. Since we are talking to a betrayed wife, didn’t think that would matter. Though it is good to note if this woman turns up having cheated on her husband and then that guy comes searching for the dude that took advantage of his poor, poor wife.


I've seen women and men cheaters use a lot of the same nonsense excuses myself.

I did misread your post however and I realize what you were saying. Sorry about that.🙂


----------



## DosEquis

Ma'am, first of all, I am so sorry you find yourself in this mess of his making. As a man in a 2nd marriage now of many years, it is staggering to me that a guy his age with 27 years of marriage to a good woman, looking at what could be some of the best years of your lives ahead of you (grown kids, retirement years, grandkids, etc) would, in one dumbass moment (understatement), turn his life into a dumpster fire of betrayal and shame. But, he did just that and served you an open faced shyte sandwich of betrayal and awful choices. As they say, it takes all kinds I guess. As SG0007 said, "Sometimes people just go batshit crazy." But I digress.

I want to suggest a complete reframe of your situation as to not just being a binary decision of forgiveness or not. There is a third option, at least for now, and that is mere acceptance. You accept that it happened and kick the can of "forgiveness" down the road, for a while at least.

You are in the first month. This is very very early. Your emotions are still in the ICU, hooked up to life support. Way too early to talk of forgiveness IMO. Just focus on acceptance for now. This will give you the head/emotional space you need to start to find some sort of equalibrium in your life again.

Take care of *you. *Get icy not hot. Eat right, exercise, lean on close friends and family, keep posting, read. Keep a buffer of space between you. As others have said, Id definitely consult with an attorney to at least know what the D landscape would look like for you.

Make no mistake, should you decide to stay, this will be a ground-up rebuild. Can a new M rise from the ashes of the old? Yes, and people DO recover and rebuild. It takes a lot of time and a ton of effort. You do at least have a WH who confessed and is distraught. Thats something.

You may decide that you simply want to have a funeral and bury the old marriage through divorce. Thats ok too. The marriage vows are well and truly broken.

The purpose of my post is to support you. To help you see your current situation differently. To back off the "forgiveness" issue that seems to be bearing down on you hard.

Breath. Blow out the stress.

Strength and clarity to you now and in the days ahead.


----------



## Gabriel

Woundidwife said:


> Yes. He is willing to tead it. He has been researching every day ways to help me. I came home earlier than he expected me one day last week, and he was blubbering as badly as I do. He said he has been doing that every day, but makes sure that I don’t see it: that he is trying to be strong for me so that he can help me heal from this monumental betrayal. He knows he likely lost me forever, nbut is still trying to help me heal in order to one day try to salvage our marriage, even though I am unsure that I will be able to continue the relationship. I am still in disbelief and tomorrow will be a month since I have known. I am still very physically ill and have full days where I can barely function. I cannot reconcile the man I knew with the actions he took. Un.f****ing believable! Thank you all for the supportive posts (and for repeating the book title). I really can’t handle much more negativity right now. I am pretty fragile and like someone said, don’t need the beating. I knowthe situation I am in. This was NEVER supposed to happen, but now, I am expected to try to forgive the unthinkable. Not sure that I am even capable of that.


This is the time to be selfish. You do what YOU need to do. 

I know it's probably hard to see someone you have loved for this long feel the way he does....but he did it to himself.

In your shoes (sort of), here's what worked for me. I worked out like a madman, and made myself feel way better about my appearance. I also acted confident (granted this took awhile for me to do - it wasn't right away).

This does two things. First, it is good practice for your health and wellbeing. Second, it makes your partner realize what he's missing. 

Clearly, there was something not quite right about your marriage before this incident. He was angry about something, and used that as justification to do what he did. Something was off.


----------



## BoSlander

Beach123 said:


> I too, forgave when he cheated at the ten year mark. After much counseling together because he “was SO sorry” I came to understand MY boundary - ok, I’ll continue with the marriage you ruined - then one you keep trying to repair. BUT - you do it again - even something that looks remotely close to this again and I will divorce you without even discussing it with you.
> I found out again at the 20 year mark - blatant cheating. Gifts for her galore too.
> So I divorced him. I’ve never regretted leaving him! His 3rd wife is now divorcing him after 12 years together… for guess what? Yep, he cheated - he just doesn’t know how to NOT cheat!
> 
> you can stay = you have no idea if he will do it again - or not.
> 
> I wish I hadn’t wasted another 10 years based on the fact that he knew he wasn’t capable of being who I needed him to be.


It’s my understanding that the marriage record for cheater’s second, third or fourth marriages is dismal, awful. Like they fail miserably close to 80% of the time.


----------



## *Deidre*

It will take time for you to sort this all out, but if it were me, I'd ask him to stay somewhere else for a few weeks, so you can think on your own. He's going to be in your face everyday, crying and carrying on...so you don't leave him. It's not fair to you, and you should take some time to think on your own for a while. If he can't handle that, then he shouldn't have cheated. This burden rests entirely on him, not you. He sounds like he knows you'll stay, that all the years you've invested, etc...

Not a legal separation, just ask him to go somewhere else for a while. If you don't trust him, then therein lies your answer in terms of remaining in the marriage. To me, once trust is broken, it's a tough road back to normal. You may have a ''new normal'' if you choose to stay, but it sounds like he's just going to be in your space day in day out, pulling out all the dramatic stops to force your decision to stay.

Just my two cents.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis,
Thank you for this post. This one was very positive. You helped me eat some of the lunch that I had been staring at and had already decided to trash.


----------



## lifeistooshort

I think it's important that you both give yourself permission to end things with your head held high as well as recognize that he's not who you thought he was.

This doesn't mean you have to end it. It means that you're taking the power and that is mentally freeing. And seeing him for who he is will reset your starring point

And who is he? You can answer thar best but based on your story he's a guy who decided to pay you back by ****ing another woman. He's not a poor victim....he made a decision to pay you back for whatever he perceived you were doing. He's a guy who dealt with what he thought was a small kitchen fire by blowout up the house.

Now that doesn't mean he lacks good qualities or that it's not worth giving reconciliation a shot. I means that you have to do it with your eyes open as to who you've got. You'll have to decide if you can live with that. I couldn't but others can and do.

Just know that real reconciliation can take years and there's no guarantee, so you'll have to decide if you want to invest the time. And there may come a point where you need to cut your losses. You will never look at him the same again, so you'll have to decide if what you're getting is worth it.


----------



## Beach123

Has he had any consequences from you?

If he hasn’t - he just gets the idea that he can do it with little changes. Consequences that show him you may consider leaving him are key. Consequences that make him stop and think next time about what he’s doing to others.

as much as you may not want him to hurt right now - it is critical that he hurts badly.


----------



## ABHale

Woundidwife said:


> He says the guilt was killing him. Every time I woke in the night, he was awake, so I think that is true. (He had a vasectomy about 18 years ago and we are both in the clear for all testing—3 weeks after the event.). He never even considered his own sexual health!!!
> 
> I am beyond devastated.


There have been several men and women that the guilt tears them up. They then confess to what has happened. So he can be telling the truth about this.

This can also be the first time this has happened. It could also have been the last time in a string of ONS.

It looks like the two of you had clean STD screenings so he didn’t confess because he caught something.

You need to decide what YOU can and can’t live with. It is your choice to work it out or end the marriage.

If you were only looking for an excuse to end the marriage, you have it like you said. File for divorce and move on with your life.


----------



## Jimi007

The flip side is , he could be telling you the truth. Guilt is powerful ju ju . And it could be he is extremely sorry and that's why he told you . My advice is look long and hard at it . Be solid to yourself with whatever decision you make. You can try R if you know in your heart he's sincere . 

I know many on TAM scream divorce. Take everything to the extreme, and interject there own stories of horrible infidelity. Projecting that into your thought process . It's not all bad , and you probably need to hear it....Yet don't let it influence Your decision making. 
Best wishes , Jimi


----------



## ABHale

Woundidwife said:


> I just do not even know where to start.
> 
> *HOW* does someone FORGIVE something like this?!!!!


Time and healing.

I suggest reading some stories on here.

No Longer Lonely Husband’s story

and

Vintage Retro’s story.

They will show you how each moved forward. One staying and the other ending the marriage.

I always say divorce the cheater. There have only been a few times I suggested R where the cheater showed real remorse and was doing everything in their power to fix it. You are the only one that knows your husband. You’re the one that sees his actions and know if he is actually doing the heavy lifting to repair what he has broken.

Two things in his favor, he never tried to blame shift and he confessed. So many betrayed spouses have to find out themselves that they are with a cheater.


----------



## Divinely Favored

ABHale said:


> There have been several men and women that the guilt tears them up. They then confess to what has happened. So he can be telling the truth about this.
> 
> This can also be the first time this has happened. It could also have been the last time in a string of ONS.
> 
> It looks like the two of you had clean STD screenings so he didn’t confess because he caught something.
> 
> You need to decide what YOU can and can’t live with. It is your choice to work it out or end the marriage.
> 
> If you were only looking for an excuse to end the marriage, you have it like you said. File for divorce and move on with your life.


Shame he did not have the moral fortitude and conscience to keep his pecker in his pants. If one has a conscience, guilt is unnecessary, because this would not have happened in the first place.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> DosEquis,
> Thank you for this post. This one was very positive. You helped me eat some of the lunch that I had been staring at and had already decided to trash.


Im so glad it helped.

A big part of this is the pressure the BS puts on themself. They feel they have to "do something". Its way worse if you're a "fixer" (which I am), but guess what? You dont have to do a damn thing for/with him right now except watch him closely and see what HE is willing to do and his "doing" is gonna have to be monumentally beyond anything hes ever attempted in his life to this point. Literally, the largest effort of his existance. It will be life defining for him as to whether he can now make something worthy of your love and committment (IF you are even willing), or spiral into a train wreck.

For now, you do YOU. For now, there is no WE. No US. I dont want to hit a wound here, but dont be surprised if his hugs bring little to no comfort or solace as they are the hugs of a marital traitor. Your own Benedict Arnold, as it were.

One of the best advices I can give you is to NOT "turtle up" in your pain and anguish. Turn to trusted and balanced friends, family, a good therapist and keep posting here. You need people who are on "Team Woundedwife" to circle the wagons around you, let you weep, talk, sit in silence, go out to eat, get a cup of coffee or a glass of wine. Whatever you need whenever you need it.

As with the other great posters here, I speak from a place of experience and great pain, long recovered thank God.

Strength and clarity to you. Im not kidding about the deep breathing and blowing out stress activity BTW. It helps. Do it every time you feel that wave of panic hit.

ETA: Get a massage....hell, get LOTs of massages. Nothing like getting stressed muscles kneeded...maybe even falling asleep on the table.


----------



## QuietRiot

lifeistooshort said:


> I think it's important that you both give yourself permission to end things with your head held high as well as recognize that he's not who you thought he was.
> 
> This doesn't mean you have to end it. It means that you're taking the power and that is mentally freeing. And seeing him for who he is will reset your starring point
> 
> And who is he? You can answer thar best but based on your story he's a guy who decided to pay you back by ****ing another woman. He's not a poor victim....he made a decision to pay you back for whatever he perceived you were doing. He's a guy who dealt with what he thought was a small kitchen fire by blowout up the house.
> 
> Now that doesn't mean he lacks good qualities or that it's not worth giving reconciliation a shot. I means that you have to do it with your eyes open as to who you've got. You'll have to decide if you can live with that. I couldn't but others can and do.
> 
> Just know that real reconciliation can take years and there's no guarantee, so you'll have to decide if you want to invest the time. And there may come a point where you need to cut your losses. You will never look at him the same again, so you'll have to decide if what you're getting is worth it.


Great post, and to touch on it a bit more I think there is a lot of power and strength in not ever staying because of fear or pain… but to only reconcile from a place of healed and clear thinking. Reconcile because you are at a stable and good place and he is reconciliation material if that’s what you eventually choose. 

I don’t think 99% of reconciliations come from that place of strength. They mostly come from fear I think. I also think that’s why most people fail at or have deep resentment and insecurity during their continued marriage.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

QuietRiot said:


> Great post, and to touch on it a bit more I think there is a lot of power and strength in not ever staying because of fear or pain… but to only reconcile from a place of healed and clear thinking. Reconcile because you are at a stable and good place and he is reconciliation material if that’s what you eventually choose.
> 
> *I don’t think 99% of reconciliations come from that place of strength. *They mostly come from fear I think. I also think that’s why most people fail at or have deep resentment and insecurity during their continued marriage.


I suspect that is because most people have no clue how to achieve that. And, if they did they may realize it isn't worth the effort, because I bet it does take an immense amount of work to get to that point.


----------



## QuietRiot

BigDaddyNY said:


> I suspect that is because most people have no clue how to achieve that. And, if they did they may realize it isn't worth the effort, because I bet it does take an immense amount of work to get to that point.


Spot on. 
Reconciliations are riddled with catch 22’s.


----------



## Woundidwife

ABHale said:


> Time and healing. I suggest reading some stories on here. No Longer Lonely Husband’s story and Vintage Retro’s story. They will show you how each moved forward. One staying and the other ending the marriage. I always say divorce the cheater. There have only been a few times I suggested R where the cheater showed real remorse and was doing everything in their power to fix it. You are the only one that knows your husband. You’re the one that sees his actions and know if he is actually doing the heavy lifting to repair what he has broken. Two things in his favor, he never tried to blame shift and he confessed. So many betrayed spouses have to find out themselves that they are with a cheater.


 How/where do I find these stories? There really haven’t been any consequences for him. I have basically shut down. I think I am in the “depression” portion of the acceptance process now. I am a fixer, too, and a nurturer, so I find myself comforting him!!! (To his credit, he tells me not to worry about his feelings—his do not matter now…only mine.)

He has now read the book (we both have) and was already doing basically everything in it to help me heal, by his own instincts, before he even read it. He does care, but it is so hard to believe that he loves me or ever did.

Reality is hitting me HARD. How little he cared for me to be able to do this. How selfish he is and has been for most of our marriage.

I am just so, so, horribly, horribly sad.

I am certain I will never be able to forget, and I do NOT think I will EVER be able to forgive this. I am not sure what that means for me moving forward.


----------



## bobert

Woundidwife said:


> How/where do I find these stories? There really haven’t been any consequences for him. I have basically shut down. I think I am in the “depression” portion of the acceptance process now.
> 
> He has now read the book (we both have) and was already doing basically everything in it to help me heal, by his own instincts, before he even read it. He does care, but it is so hard to believe that he loves me or ever did.
> 
> Reality is hitting me HARD. How little he cared for me to be able to do this. How selfish he is and has been for most of our marriage.
> 
> I am just so, so, horribly, horribly sad.
> 
> I am certain I will never be able to forget, and I do NOT think I will EVER be able to forgive this. I am not sure what that means for me moving forward.


VintageRetro's story is here. I'm pretty sure NLLH's was removed due to his request. 

You will never forget. Its something you need to (eventually) learn to live with (but that doesn't mean he has to stay in your life). 

Forgiveness is needed if you decide to stay together though. Some people can forgive, some cannot. Neither is right or wrong. It may be too early for you to know if you can forgive him or not. It's only been a month, right? At that point I was going back and forth on reconciliation or divorce every 5 minutes and forgiveness certainly wasn't happening.


----------



## Openminded

It’s a difficult road to travel. And reconciling successfully — if possible — is a long process. Think years and not months. Most of all be kind to yourself, and patient with the ups and downs you will experience, and take whatever time you need to heal.


----------



## Beach123

You will need to learn to take YOUR power back. You have handed HIM all YOUR power in the marriage. Work on balance - to regain your power.

it’s not surprising he’s been selfish throughout the marriage. He’s unlikely to change. How can you teach anyone to NOT be selfish? It only come when they are uncomfortable enough to change.. and you seem set on making HIM comfortable.

work on yourself. Make sure you can be OK without him! Are you dependent on his money? Could you make it on your own?

if things don’t change (yes, it’s uncomfortable) then you are left with a man and ho will cheat again to stroke his ego.

ask him how he plan to become UNselfish? How he plans to get rid of his ego that’s out of balance? Put the blame and the action onto him. It is HIS work to do and his mindset to change.
Stop feeling bad for him - he ruined your marriage!


----------



## harperlee

Woundidwife said:


> My husband admitted to a ONS very recently. He has, until this, been the most honest, reliable and trustworthy man I have ever known.
> He then said that he knew of a place and told her to follow him! Then they both drove 10 minutes away from the bar, where they had *UNPROTECTED sex in her car in a deserted parking lot.*
> He told me all of this A MONTH AFTER it happened. (The timing was suspicious, but he says it had been eating him up all month and he “never found a good time to tell me”.


My thoughts are that this was not a 'one night stand.' 
By the way, all of his explanation are exactly opposite of what happens in the real world. Some women can be brazen, but not that much.
I'm thinking the mistress is pregnant and he's breaking it to you in stages.
Prepare yourself.


----------



## re16

Woundidwife said:


> I am certain I will never be able to forget, and I do NOT think I will EVER be able to forgive this. I am not sure what that means for me moving forward.


At this stage, this is really the only correct response to have.

You need to rapidly engage in ending the marriage. If you two were to heal from this somehow, it would need to be a new marriage anyway, he threw this one away already.


----------



## Woundidwife

Harperlee, 

Did you even read my post? He had a vasectomy. I am in enough agony as it is. If you don’t have anything helpful to post, please don’t.


----------



## Woundidwife

Re16, I know. 😭


----------



## re16

Woundidwife said:


> Re16, I know. 😭


It is tough, but you are just following through on what he did. Don't let him (or yourself since you a fixer type person) make it your fault.


----------



## Beach123

What are YOU doing and NOT doing to send him a clear message that he’s done you SO wrong?


----------



## harperlee

Woundidwife said:


> Harperlee,
> 
> Did you even read my post? He had a vasectomy. I am in enough agony as it is. If you don’t have anything helpful to post, please don’t.


Sorry. I guess he was only concerned about sexually transmitted diseases.


----------



## DosEquis

(((Woundidwife))).....solidarity ma'am


----------



## NicoleCJ

Oh Woundidwife….I’m so sorry you are here. I know your pain. My husband was one who would never have betrayed me either. Yet here I am. 
First of all, you are in shock. It is way to soon to think about forgiveness. Don‘t give that any more energy. As others have said it’s too soon to go down that road. DosEquis speaks wisely. Right now you just need to try and breathe. Drink lots of water and try and eat without throwing it up 30 seconds later. I know I felt like a nauseous zombie for quite some time. You really don’t even know half the questions you are going to need answers too yet. That will come. 
Right now he deserves none of your sympathy. In fact you would be doing him a disservice by giving him any. He needs the cold hard slap of reality that he can only get by going through pain and watching you go through the pain he needs to know he caused. Whether you stay or go, he will not grow or change without seeing that.
You’re going to go through stages of shock, pain, fear, anger, extreme anger, numbness and back around again. When you hit the anger stage, you are going to yell things that would make a trucker blush and feel damn good afterwards. That was really quite cathartic for me. That’s all normal and you need to get through it in any way you feel you works for you.
You’re desperately trying to figure out why? How could he? You don’t understand because you can’t put yourself in that position. You don‘t betray someone you love. It’ll make you crazy to try and understand. You won’t. So try not to expend the energy on that either, though I know you will. You are mourning the death of your marriage and a man you thought you knew. Both are going to be forever changed. The ground beneath your feet has crumbled and your sense of safety has been obliterated. That’s going to be a struggle to get back, but you will. Slowly.
Whether he changes and you want to build a new marriage with him isn’t something that should be on your radar yet either. It can take 2 to 5 yrs to heal (whatever that means) from betrayal in the best of circumstances. I’m in year 9 and I still question my decision to be here working on this. I have a decent case of ptsd, anxiety, depression and the triggers are still endless. Mine was a brutal double betrayal that encompassed every major holiday and life event including the birth of my youngest. She even had the nerve to show up at the hospital and bring me flowers and he allowed her to intrude in that space and steal that memory from me. There are some things I will NEVER forgive. That is one of them and that’s ok. I don‘t feel you have to forgive whether you choose to stay or divorce. You’re under no obligation to do so. I don‘t even know if I agree with the concept of it. I think infidelity and betrayal, like death, is just something you come to accept and learn to live with. Or not. It takes time and you are so early in this journey.
A few things I found that helped was working out like crazy, listening to music (loud angry music) and floating. The sensory deprivation floating. I don’t know if you have that in your area, but I would highly recommend it. I can honestly say it saved me. It was the only place where I could turn my mind off and find some semblance of peace even if for just an hour. Find your “things” that get you through. I rarely post on these forums, but I read voraciously. Took what I needed and disregarded what didn’t apply to me.
One thing I wish I would’ve done is run a phone recovery app on his phone much earlier. if I were you I would tell him you want to see all his texts/emails/chats for that night and the past few months. Take a look at the cell phone bill and see if there are any odd numbers you don’t recognize showing up with great frequency. If nothing else just to satisfy your mind that this was a one off situation. If you see odd things on the phone bill or he doesn’t immediately hand you his phone and give you all of his passwords then I would say you have an issue. Let him know that this isn’t an option. There are recovery software programs out there. Super easy to use. I used Fonelab. It recovered some texts and pics on one of his devices 3 yrs into our reconciliation process that he said didn’t exist so it is a highly valuable tool. The longer you wait though, the more data is overwritten so the sooner the better. All of these things will help ease your mind a bit. It won’t take away the pain of the moment, but down the road you will be thankful you did. And don;t feel bad or guilty for asking for these things. Toss that bs out the window. He lost the right to privacy…Period. If he guilts or gaslights you at all, tell him to pack his **** and get out. That’s another thing I wish I would have done is find my strength sooner. It would have served me well.
Anyways, sending you big hugs. Know that you are not alone! Like I said, I don’t post, but your pain and shock is so heartbreaking I can feel it. You will get through it though there will be days when even the thought of getting out of bed is so heavy that you can’t breathe. It’s ok to stay in bed. Sometimes you just need a safe, quiet place to cry and be alone. Cry, scream, break those ugly dishes you’ve always wanted to get rid of. Getting that toxic energy out of your body is so helpful! Honestly, I still have those moments. They’re just not as frequent. Just make sure you stay hydrated and eat little bits as often as you can and try not to stay in bed for too many days. It can lead to some serious depression.
Keep reading. Make him keep reading. Linda’s book is a great start for him. I am blessed to have had her as my therapist for the last 3 yrs and she is spot on. 
Know that you are strong and freakin awesome and you WILL get through this even if it feels like you have a knife spinning circles in your stomach and your ears are ringing from the pain right now. You will get stronger. Just don’t rug sweep any of this. He needs to be accountable. And as hard as it might be for us nurturers, don‘t let that side of yourself feel too bad for him right now. He made choice after choice that got him here knowing exactly what the consequences would be. I know, I did the same, but you will not heal by discounting what you need because you feel bad for what he’s going through. This isn’t about him anymore. It’s about you. You don’t have a choice but to go through this. Neither does he. And he needs to be helping you every single miserable step of the way.
Sending much peace and strength your way!


----------



## Woundidwife

NicoleCJ,
Thank you so much for your post. I really appreciate you taking the time to write that for me. (You are correct in that I truly am CRUSHED.) I am wondering after 9 years if you feel that you made the right decision.
I can’t see into my future, but I know I do not want (and probably won’t be satisfied—let alone happy—with) a life of distrust, anger and triggers. That is just not who I am. (Because I am such an upbeat person normally, the few close friends and family members with whom I have confided were shocked to learn that I have been living in the controlling marriage that I have been. I am quite sure that I will never go back to that, so if permanent changes are not made by my WH, I WILL walk away. I deserve to be happy—no matter what that means for the relationship. I am just not sure how much time I will spend waiting to see if his improvements are permanent or if I/our marriage can really heal from this at all.) I told him what I thought was obvious yesterday: that the last 27 years has been trashed for me now, like they never happened. This really hurt him because he said those 27 years are what keep him hanging on. I told him we were on very different ends of the spectrum, as the way I see it, he is the one who decided those years had no value and threw them away in the first place.

Beach123,
I am working on myself…doing things with friends and family. Trying to remember who I once was. Unfortunately, it feels forced right now…but my WH is supportive. (We both want to become the ones we married. We were SO in love at one time.). He volunteers to let me go through his phone and even suggested I place an app or two on his phone that help me to keep an eye on him right now. I wish I could say I was ashamed of doing that, but it has helped me trust that he actually is WHERE he should be WHEN he should be. I don’t know how long I may feel that I need to rely on that, but it does feel like a crutch because I really do not WANT to try to trust him at all. This is frustrating to me because I am also generally an avoider of conflict, so this is a highly stressful situation for me. I cannot hide from or ignore this situation, but instead, I must feel every soul-crushing moment of it. Most of this week has been spent crying, but yesterday was actually a kind of good day for me—one of the first ones since he confessed a month and 2 days ago. We are both in individual counseling (I told him he needed help as there was obviously something very wrong in his brain to have given himself permission to do something like this and I feel I need help finding balance in my life.) and joint counseling.

DosEquis,
Thank you again for your support. There are a lot of jaded and negative posters on here. I was hoping for more help. (In my mind, “Talk About Marriage” should not automatically turn to talking about divorce.) Even though my entire life has been disrespected, that doesn’t necessarily mean I am ready to run it through the garbage disposal just yet. My WH only requested—and is still daily begging for—a second chance. I have, kind of, granted him that, but that doesn’t mean I can predict the ending to my story.


----------



## BellaA

Woundidwife said:


> I really don’t think it has happened before, but this whole situation seems so extreme, so deliberate and intentional that I am really struggling…


He does sound like a good man who is demonstrating severe remorse and anguish over his many small decisions that led to this splitting within himself. In a sense it doesn't have anything to do with you, but he has to come into full awareness, honesty and vulnerability about himself while also being strong and steadfast for you to renew, and not many are capable of that. It's possible that this is a chance to get to new heights in your relationship, you'll have to be really brave and really patient and will go through hell on the way to that new place. I'm sorry for your pain.


----------



## Gabriel

I will say this is the mistake many of us make. We think it's about us. Reality is, he wasn't thinking about you at all. This was all about him and what he wanted to do. You weren't in the equation.


----------



## TXTrini

We might sound jaded, because we've been there and been there for others who've been down this road too many times to count. No BS ever believed their WS could ever do that unless they had an all-out crappy or abusive marriage. It's devastating to realize how much intent and deception there was in every action that led to their cheating. 

As @Gabriel said, it's not about you at all. There's no going forward until he figures out why he never thought about you and your life together when he cheated. You have no control over anything but yourself, so it's beyond your power to fix anything he doesn't fix in himself.

I'm really sorry you feel this way, but know you're not alone, not now, not in how you feel about being judged. Many of us started like that, then realized we'd never be there same, never could look at our ex WS the same with any kind of trust and would certainly never forget what they did.

Have you gone to therapy? That truly was my lifeline sorting through how I felt about the mess my life had become.


----------



## Megaforce

I am, definitely, jaded. Cynical as all get out. I never was like this before. I have just read so many stories similar to yours. And almost all the time when the betrayed thinks his or her situation is unique, it turns out to be not much different than the standard story. Extremely rare that a cheater confesses absent something making discovery likely. Very unlikely some random woman was the driving force and this was unplanned.
It's early. More information is likely to emerge.
Just how is it your husband does not even have her name and some contact info? They must have talked and exchanged some info that would help identify her. I really think you should consider a polygraph and a private investigator.


----------



## Power1

Woundidwife said:


> My husband admitted to a ONS very recently. He has, until this, been the most honest, reliable and trustworthy man I have ever known. I have known about it for about 3 weeks (of PTSD Hell: intrusive thoughts, nightmares, paranoia, insomnia, diarrhea, etc.), and I do not even know how to begin process this situation.
> 
> We were married very young (I was 18 and he was 19). I have never had sex with another person. He had several partners before we were married and now this random stranger. I thought we were married “happily enough”, but if I had a good enough reason to leave, I could leave him…and the one he provided me was a doozy.
> 
> The circumstances are seriously UNBELIEVABLE:
> Two days before our 27th wedding anniversary, I was out of town for work. He was upset with me on a bedtime phone call, so he drove the 20 minutes into town to a bar at about 10:30pm, where as TOGETHER, we normally LEAVE places to be HOME by 10:00pm, because he always has to get up early for work the next day. According to him, he was drunk before he even left for the bar. He claims that he “didn’t know that purchasing drinks for this woman meant that he wanted to sleep with her”. He also “didn’t realize” that she was interested in sex until he said he was leaving and she asked if he wanted to go somewhere. He asked what she meant (yeah right!) and she had already been rubbing his inner thigh, but now touched his junk and told him he knew what she meant. He then said that he knew of a place and told her to follow him! Then they both drove 10 minutes away from the bar, where they had UNPROTECTED sex in her car in a deserted parking lot.
> 
> He told me all of this A MONTH AFTER it happened. (The timing was suspicious, but he says it had been eating him up all month and he “never found a good time to tell me”. I had suddenly been experiencing something like the WORST yeast infection of my life that I couldn’t shake...We have since both been tested—all clear—a month AFTER THE FACT. He tested BEFORE he told me so that he “would have all the answers for my questions when he told me, which means everyone in our doctor’s office knew before I did, and before I was tested!!!)
> 
> I did leave him the day he told me. I stayed with a relative for 3 days. I returned home on the premise that he agreed to leave. He has been agreeable. Because of his efforts, I allowed him to stay and though I am abusing him often with my angry words, it is also nice to let him hold me from time to time. This is messing with my head though. The one who ran my heart through a meat-grinder is the same one comforting me. (Is that screwed up or what?!)
> 
> There is no way to find this woman and I am severely angry and obsessed. He makes no excuses, says he has no idea why he did this, and that it has nothing to do with me. (Pretty hard to believe in light of the circumstances.) He is remorseful and just wants me to heal and return to our now “better than before” relationship.
> 
> I am just not sure what I really want or whether I can forgive this at all. As I said, I have never had sex with anyone else and have always been curious, but have not acted on my curiosity. He says the sex was meaningless (which makes no sense if the same act is supposedly meaningful with me). I almost feel that if I TRY to have “meaningless sex” with another man and CANNOT go through with it, (which I don’t think I even could), that means he is the most despicable pig on the planet to have been able to do that to me, and I should just leave him even though he really is trying to make amends. If I COULD go through with it, that might mean that it is just human nature and that I could forgive him. He had given me his blessing, but fears that I will find that the grass TRULY IS greener on the other side, which I doubt. I think I the experiment would only teach me that I probably cannot and should not forgive him.
> 
> We are already in counseling, both together and separately.
> 
> I am thinking a short, scheduled separation might remind me of the person I used to be before all of this and what I now am beginning to see was our depressing marriage.
> 
> Unfortunately, I feel like I don’t really have a choice but to forgive him. I don’t know any other life, and maybe the grass is worse on the other side, but I never had the chance to even sample it, so I wouldn’t know if I am missing anything or if I already have the best option for me—despite his horrible and DEBILITATING betrayal. I do believe that because of my COMPLETE DEVASTATION I do still love him; but if I want to stay with him, is it because I do still love him and WANT to be with him or because I DON’T KNOW HOW to live without him? How will I even know? I do not think I can make an informed decision. I am not even sure I CAN forgive this!!!!!
> 
> Any advice?


Get a legal separation if undecided. You don‘t want to be responsible for the bills he may run up during this time. Tell him if he wants to stay married he needs to go straight to the psychologist and have himself UnF*#$*ED if possible. You have a man with anger and responsibility issues. Neither of which is going to resolve itself. I advise to move on he refuses therapy. Its going to be expensive - my guess 200/ hr.


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## Woundidwife

BellaA,

It sounds as if you speak from experience. It is worth it? Should I put myself through all of the years of shyte it takes to heal, just to continue to be wounded, reminded, triggered, and suspicious of him for the rest of my life?


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## Gabriel

Woundidwife said:


> BellaA,
> 
> It sounds as if you speak from experience. It is worth it? Should I put myself through all of the years of shyte it takes to heal, just to continue to be wounded, reminded, triggered, and suspicious of him for the rest of my life?


Typical recovery time from an affair is 2-5 years, depending on the people, the situation, etc. You have to look at the sum total of your situation. 

how strong was your marriage before the affair
kids
length of relationship
your own deal breaker code
willingness to put forth the healing effort
Only you know the answer.


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## Woundidwife

I only know a first name, her make, model and possible color of her car, the time, date, and places. (Bar and parking lot)

Unfortunately, this seems to have been the perfect crime. No f***ing way to find her.


----------



## bobert

Woundidwife said:


> BellaA,
> 
> It sounds as if you speak from experience. It is worth it? Should I put myself through all of the years of shyte it takes to heal, just to continue to be wounded, reminded, triggered, and suspicious of him for the rest of my life?


You won't know if it's worth it until it is, if it happens at all. 

So is THAT worth it to you? Is it worth it for you to try, not knowing the result? Knowing you may waste years of your life? Knowing you gave it a try but it failed? Knowing infidelity changes your marriage forever and you may be able to move forward but will never forget? Knowing his infidelity will continue to pop up from time to time and will test you, the marriage, and your healing? 

You don't want to be "wounded, reminded, triggered, and suspicious" for the rest of your life. That's something that you do have control over though. Whether you divorce or reconcile, you should work on that hurt. 

For me, it's been almost 4 years from when I discovered my wife's affairs. I'm not suspicious, unless she gives me reason to be. I trust her, unless she gives me reason not to. I still get reminded of what she did but it's easier once you accept that it happened and cannot be changed. I do get triggered, but it's not nearly as often as it used to be. When I do get triggered my reaction _usually_ isn't as strong and I usually have better control over it and understand it better. I'm never going to forget what she did and it's always sort of there in the back of my mind, but at the same time, I'm not thinking about it all the time and it doesn't consume me like it used to. 

Is it worth it? I have a hard time saying yes. I'd support a friend if it's what they chose to do, but I wouldn't be able to advise a friend to do the same. 

Sure, things have improved in my marriage but it's a hell of a lot harder than it used to be, it's still a mess, I get jealous and grumpy when I hear or read about someone else who decided to leave, I still wonder "what if", and I think (but who really knows for sure) that divorce would have sucked but I'd probably be happier 4 years after divorce than 4 years into staying. 

I know a couple who has been married for over 50 years, the husband had affairs early in their marriage. They divorced and remarried. They are together, but the wife is full of regret and the topic/issue still comes up and effects the marriage. 

I know another couple and the husband had a ONS 8 years ago. They have been together for 25 years or so, married around 20. As far as I know (and I do talk to him about it) they are happy and glad they worked it out. The first 5 years or so were rough, but now they are doing "better than ever". 

There are no guarantees.


----------



## Openminded

Obviously there are no guarantees with reconciliation and every situation is different. You have to decide what’s best for you.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> BellaA,
> 
> It sounds as if you speak from experience. It is worth it? Should I put myself through all of the years of shyte it takes to heal, just to continue to be wounded, reminded, triggered, and suspicious of him for the rest of my life?


Nobody can answer that question for you. You can go by statistics, and then your probability of staying together is pretty poor. You can go by rainbow unicorn “the best thing that ever happened was when he cheated” type stories you find all over the Internet, you can go by counselors who will always tell you of COURSE you can fix this….Or you can ask yourself if YOU want to put yourself through years and years of reconciliation work with no guarantees. Only you can know the answers to your own heart.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> I only know a first name, her make, model and possible color of her car, the time, date, and places. (Bar and parking lot)
> 
> Unfortunately, this seems to have been the perfect crime. No f***ing way to find her.


She isn’t the perp. Hint* He’s sleeping in your bed.


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## snowbum

She owes you nothing . The guy who married on you screwed all up screwing a stranger. A no one. That’s not very loving


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## bobert

Megaforce said:


> Just how is it your husband does not even have her name and some contact info? They must have talked and exchanged some info that would help identify her. I really think you should consider a polygraph and a private investigator.


Not necessarily. I had a revenge ONS and I don't know her name, contact info, or anything about her. It happens. 



Woundidwife said:


> I only know a first name, her make, model and possible color of her car, the time, date, and places. (Bar and parking lot)
> 
> Unfortunately, this seems to have been the perfect crime. No f***ing way to find her.


Why would you want to find her?


----------



## DosEquis

> "DosEquis,
> Thank you again for your support. There are a lot of jaded and negative posters on here. I was hoping for more help. (In my mind, “Talk About Marriage” should not automatically turn to talking about divorce.) Even though my entire life has been disrespected, that doesn’t necessarily mean I am ready to run it through the garbage disposal just yet. My WH only requested—and is still daily begging for—a second chance. I have, kind of, granted him that, but that doesn’t mean I can predict the ending to my story."


You're welcome of course. This shared horror we call "infidelity" (such an innocuois sounding word) elicites many different reactions from folks. Some vehemently pro D, some pro R. For the record, Im pro health/happiness/balance/peace/joy, all of which has been robbed from you right now. If, post affair, D gets you there, great. If R is the better option for you, good for you. One things for sure, regardless of the path chosen, every single ounce of poison injected into your soul by your WH via his affair will have to be be neutralized in order to really move forward, and that takes time. It takes time and healthy self focus. You're not gonna have the energy to do much else but get some self healing under your belt for quite a while. This is why all of my posts have been about that and that alone. It cannot be rushed BTW. What has been crushed in you in a matter of days will take a much greater order of magnitude in time and effort for majorative healing to take place.

Same goes for him btw. If I were to advise him Id tell him the best thing he can do right now is focus on himself and figure out as conclusively as possible wtf happened to his sense of dignity, honor, love, respect (for himslf and for you)? Wth broke in his moral compass that caused him to run off the cliff (this being no gradual "slippery slope") like a lemming? Regardless of whether you end up staying with him or not, he HAS to figure this out.

As to the 27 years, it is indeed a bitter pill. Ive talked with fire fighters who have told me that they've seen beautuful homes that have stood for many decades be totally engulfed in flames in *less than 5 minutes. *So, yeh, decades old marriages can be completely torched in a very short period of time as well. Tragic but true.

I think you're doing very well all things considered. Your efforts at moving forward may feel forced right now but thats ok. Once your emotions get out of the ICU, they'll catch up and activities will feel more natural.


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## Jimi007

bobert said:


> Not necessarily. I had a revenge ONS and I don't know her name, contact info, or anything about her. It happens.
> 
> 
> Why would you want to find her?


She wants to ask her questions , the other side of the story 🙄 She also wants to kick her ass ...


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## Woundidwife

Jimi007,
You nailed it. Why did she pursue a married man? Why HIM? Did it really go down the way he said?

Bobert,
How did it make you feel? I am still on the fence about that. A lovely, sad, and lonely jaded woman I know once said to me (concerning the grass on the other side): you still have to mow the grass once you get there. However, I was an innocent—never having been with anyone else but my husband. I made my vows and was obviously resolved to never having any other experiences, but I have always wondered what it might be like. Now I am fuming that his experiences have increased when they never should have, and his vows apparently did not mean as much as mine did—despite my curiosity. I know my brain is all f***ed-up to even be thinking this way, but here I am, in this situation, that I did not choose—dealing with ALL the emotional—f***ing nightmare roller coaster (and I HATE roller coasters!); mental—constant or near constant intrusive thoughts; physical—high heart rate (I have had 2 heart surgeries for that prior to this!) and high blood pressure—this is new for me; and psychological—I think I am really screwed up for life now; consequences and damage that *I* did not choose. Sadly, I sometimes think _that_ would be the only way I could even consider forgiving him. If we do R, I feel that this will become a larger issue (where it wasn’t that big of a deal before), and I will resent him forever.

DosEquis,
Thank you. I am trying like hell, but would much rather put my head in the sand until the pain goes away. 😔


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## snowbum

If you find her you won’t get answers. She’ll probably laugh at you. And if you beat her, you’ll be charged and have a record. You’re not going to get answers. They had sex because they both wanted to and didn’t care about you.
Why am I blunt? Because you’re living through even more pain assuming your husband was a victim and you share a common pain of being exploited when actually he feels pain that life isn’t going back to normal and you’re not over it. The other woman isn’t going to ease your pain. What if she’s drop dead gorgeous? What if you find out he does know her and he’s the liar( bigger liar)?


----------



## bobert

Woundidwife said:


> Jimi007,
> You nailed it. Why did she pursue a married man? Why HIM? Did it really go down the way he said?


Even if you find her, you may not get the answers you're looking for. She is under no obligation to talk to you, or to tell you the truth. She could lie just for the sake of it, and yeah there are women who do that. And if you do get the answers, it likely won't make you feel better. You have to (eventually) get to a point of acceptance that it happened and stop searching for answers to make sense of it.

And assaulting her isn't the answer either. She didn't do this to you, your husband did (but don't assault him either).

Why did she choose to sleep with a married man (we don't know who did the pursuing)? Well, she may not have even known he was married. Or she may be the type that gets off on getting other women's husband's. Women like that are out there.



> Bobert,
> How did it make you feel?


How did what make me feel?


----------



## DosEquis

> DosEqis,
> Thank you. I am trying like hell, but would much rather put my head in the sand until the pain goes away. 😔


Yeh, I get it. Your thread reminds me of one of my favorite Shawshank Redemption quotes, "Time can draw out like a blade." Its a painful word picture but fitting IMO.

Again, I think you're doing as well as a highly traumatized individual can whos world has been tossed upside down by their heretofore supposed "spouse/lifepartner".

Your thread also has me reflecting on my own betrayal, decades past now. It was with my supposed "best friend" (sad joke) and my wife. I cut him out of my life and went NC with her for a while. I decided to try and work it out at the time, in part for the kids, which was a terrible mistake (for me). Talk about drawing out the pain. My God. I just got a shiver typing that. We tried for a decade, but the relationship then ended for other very traumatic reasons.

I relay this to you to let you know that I understand the type of trauma youre going through and to let you know that jumbled and conflicted emotions (understatement) are normal and will be that way for a while. It is especially impactful when you like your private life to be neat and ordered (I do). 

There are also, what I refer to as, "Trauma Multipliers". One of my trauma multipliers was that my betrayal happened with another "trusted" individual. This multiplied my trauma HUGELY. One of yours is what you already mentioned, TWENTY SEVEN YEARS of marital history. Its no wonder our heads spin like Linda Blair. 

So, I get it. Take your time. Move at your own pace. 

One day at a time.


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## Woundidwife

Bobert: The revenge ONS.


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## Dictum Veritas

Woundidwife said:


> However, I was an innocent—never having been with anyone else but my husband.


You are still an innocent, your claim and treaty still holds true. Worth your weight in gold as not many can make that claim in honesty. When I served in the military, we were honor bound to salute a pregnant woman for she is building the nation. I feel honor bound to salute you, for you have held the honor so many in the West cast aside with abandon theses days.

Your husband through his actions has released you from your vows by shattering them. You have reached a crossroads and choice. Only you can decide if you will live with this and him and make new vows or take the other road and start afresh.

Always remember, none of this reflects poorly upon you and whatever your choice in this regard, because of your choices in the past, at this moment, please accept this salute from an old conscript, with all the honor it contains and all the respect it conveys; unless you befoul yourself in an act of revenge. Respect yourself, your honor and purity more than that.


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## snowbum

If you have a OnS you lose all credibility. Just as bad and your marriage is done.


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## Woundidwife

_how strong was your marriage before the ONS:_ I was content, if not always happy, and I DID AND STILL DO LOVE HIM, but apparently, it wasn’t as strong as I thought.
_kids_: grown and devastated, mostly out of the house (one in college)
_length of relationship_: 27 f***ing years
_your own deal breaker code_: *WE* had a deal; if you ever don’t want to be together anymore, have the decency to tell me before cheating on me. These were HIS words and HIS promise request of me—it was supposed to hold true for both of us. *This IS my dealbreaker, my soul-breaker.*



_willingness to put forth the healing effort_: Some days are better than others. I still don’t know what I want. The last 2 nights were the best sleep I have had in over a month—with melatonin and only waking up with intrusive thoughts one or two times, BUT ACTUALLY GOING BACK TO SLEEP. (4-5 hours on the good nights.) I still do not feel rested at all, but hopefully, I can function today. I feel like I am trying to put in effort, but my WH says my energy os focused on the negative rather than healing. That may be true. I am no longer in charge of my current mindset and that is scary. I do not want to be the person I feel that I am becoming right now.

also, I feel so f***ed up. I feel like I have to be BEAUTIFUL and dressed to the nines to go to the damn grocery store. He thinks it is because I want attention from other men, and maybe subconsciously, I do, but really it is because he made me feel unworthy and ugly.


----------



## snowbum

If he is already criticizing how you heal and time frame he’s not remorseful he’s manipulative. If he thinks you should see the good in him a month after sleeping with someone he’s trash.


----------



## TexasMom1216

snowbum said:


> If he is already criticizing how you heal and time frame he’s not remorseful he’s manipulative. If he thinks you should see the good in him a month after sleeping with someone he’s trash.


He’s sorry he got caught.

He doesn’t want the OP looking nice because now that she knows about the cheating he is afraid she will cheat on him. So he definitely has a double standard because he wouldn’t want to stay if she did but knows that if she does it’s going to make him the bad guy if he cheats on her, asks her to stay and then leaves her for doing the same thing he did. IMO


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## Woundidwife

snowbum said:


> If he is already criticizing how you heal and time frame he’s not remorseful he’s manipulative. If he thinks you should see the good in him a month after sleeping with someone he’s trash.


TexasMom1216–Reminder: He was NOT CAUGHT. He confessed.

He gets frustrated and sad, but he acknowledges that he cannot tell me how to heal or how long it will take. He is trying. He said he confessed only after building the courage to tell me because it was only right for me to have the final say WITH THE KNOWLEDGE of the ONS. It is my choice to continue the relationship or not. He has made no bones about that. He is completely at my mercy.

I think he may have seriously underestimated my stance on this issue however, believing that I would forgive, heal, and continue with the marriage no matter what. It now clear to him that this was definitely not the case, and he is definitely shaken, humbled, contrite, remorseful, and submissive.


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## DosEquis

Heres two threads involving infidelity in long term marriages that may be helpful:

1. This guy chose divorce.

2. This guy chose reconciliation


----------



## TexasMom1216

Woundidwife said:


> TexasMom1216–Reminder: He was NOT CAUGHT. He confessed.
> 
> He gets frustrated and sad, but he acknowledges that he cannot tell me how to heal or how long it will take. He is trying. He said he confessed only after building the courage to tell me because it was only right for me to have the final say WITH THE KNOWLEDGE of the ONS. It is my choice to continue the relationship or not. He has made no bones about that. He is completely at my mercy.
> 
> I think he may have seriously underestimated my stance on this issue however, believing that I would forgive, heal, and continue with the marriage no matter what. It now clear to him that this was definitely not the case, and he is definitely shaken, humbled, contrite, remorseful, and submissive.


Ok, that’s fair and you’ve mentioned it to me several times. You’re in a tough place and it’s wrong for me to say things that upset you. It is your decision to reconcile and frankly none of my business. What he did to you, the hurt that comes through your posts, makes me angry at him on your behalf, but you didn’t ask me to be mad for you, I’m sticking my nose in your business and I apologize for that. Sorry if I upset you, sincerely, I should be better than that. I won’t post on your thread again.


----------



## Woundidwife

On a positive note, I made myself food for the first time in over a month this morning. Breakfast at 9:45ish. Food I actually wanted to eat and did eat. After a semi-restful night of sleep.


He has been feeding me…doing all the cooking, cleaning, yard work,etc. His normal chores and mine, too. He has been stir crazy, so he keeps himself busy, and it is good because I could now give a f*** about the cleanliness of my beautiful home (where we entertain large groups of friends and family, and people always ask if we hold events here!!!) that I loved and cared for—for many, many years. I have not lifted a finger, and he has not said a word. He is suddenly “happy” to do everything for me. 


We both had about 20-30lbs of spare tire…Much to my dismay, my WH has had trouble eating and only eats when we are together, so has lost about 20lbs and body-wise looks fantastic (minus the haggard lack of sleep eye baggage, and perma-sadness on his face.). I, on the other hand, eat when he feeds me and aside from the first few days of complete starvation, and a few really depressed days when I can’t eat have begun stress eating (junk) or maybe just the stress is holding fast whatever I do eat…? I lost 7lbs in the first 4 days, but am back to just -5 now. (None of this has contributed to or detracted from my need for A LOT of hysterical bonding. I am SOOO MESSED UP in the head!!!!!)

I actually yelled this at him on day 1: If you were going to do this to me, why didn’t you do it when I was younger and had better bait?!

Such is my emotional roller coaster. And I already mentioned how much I hate those.

He is focusing on the positive and rebuilding. Trying to plan positive activities for us to do together. He calls to see if I am okay. He tells me that I am the best thing to have ever happened in his life and that he knows he f***ed it up. He holds me when I cry and often cries with me. He apologizes and concedes that he is the cause multiple times daily. He is presently trying to apologize to our grown children, but I do not think they are quite ready for that either. He was (is?) a good man, could be the “better husband”. I just need to decide if this is too little too late. Would I be happier in the long run with someone who has never broken my trust? Maybe. Could I try that route and realize I have thrown away what could have been wonderful—just like he did? Maybe. 

The grass still has to be mowed on the other side. 😔


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## Woundidwife

TexasMom1216 said:


> Ok, that’s fair and you’ve mentioned it to me several times. You’re in a tough place and it’s wrong for me to say things that upset you. It is your decision to reconcile and frankly none of my business. What he did to you, the hurt that comes through your posts, makes me angry at him on your behalf, but you didn’t ask me to be mad for you, I’m sticking my nose in your business and I apologize for that. Sorry if I upset you, sincerely, I should be better than that. I won’t post on your thread again.


I am not turning you away. PLEASE BE ANGRY FOR ME!!! Just try to remember the facts. This is painful enough without getting wound up about irrelevant tangents. I do appreciate your support.


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## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Heres two threads involving infidelity in long term marriages that may be helpful:
> 
> 1. This guy chose divorce.
> 
> 2. This guy chose reconciliation


Thank you for always having my back. I am currently in the middle of Vintage Retro’s story. 
Without revealing much more specific/identifying information about who I/we really are, I will just say that our family is highly regarded in our community and military is VERY important to and extremely respected by me and all of my immediate family members. Thank you for your service. You are appreciated!!


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## Jimi007

If your husband is sincere.. consider R


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## Woundidwife

Jimi007 said:


> If your husband is sincere.. consider R


I think he is, and I AM TRYING, but God help me. This is the hardest thing I have ever even attempted to endure.

My head and heart do not agree. My heart loves him while my head says, “WTF are you thinking?!!”


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## bobert

Woundidwife said:


> Bobert: The revenge ONS.


For context (because my situation is quite different than yours), I have been with my wife for 19 years and married for 15. She had two affairs that lasted years, and she had a child with one of them. I found out 4 years ago, and shortly after that I slept with two women. One of them was a true ONS - I had never met her before or since and I know nothing about her, not even a name. The other was someone who I've known for over 20 years, and I guess that ended up kind of being an off and on thing (to varying degrees) for a few years. 

When I started thinking about having RA's, I had reasons like:

Hurt: I wanted to hurt her, I thought she deserved to hurt the same way I did, I wanted her to feel the pain I was feeling, I wanted her to obsess over the same questions and mind movies that I did, I wanted to break the same promise that she did, I wanted her to know what she was wanting me to forgive. 

Indecisiveness: I wanted sex with someone else to make me stop missing her, stop loving her, stop wanting her. I wanted it to put the nail in the coffin, I wanted her to stop wanting me, I wanted it to make the R or D decision for me because I couldn't do it. Yet, I also wanted to level the playing field and I thought bringing myself down to her level would make it easier to forgive her. 

Self-esteem: I wanted to feel desirable, to be attractive to someone else, to have better sex with someone else. I wanted to rid myself of her and didn't want her to be the most recent person I had been with. 

The first woman I slept with was the one I've known for 20+ years. I felt like absolute **** the first time I slept with her. The sex was awful, I couldn't stop thinking about my wife, I couldn't "finish", and I absolutely regretted it the next morning. Even just kissing her a month prior made me feel like ****, so I should have known better but I did it anyway - and continued to do it because I was still searching for a way to feel better and to accomplish the goals above. And I'll admit, sometimes the sex WAS good and DID make me feel better in the moment, but it always ended the same way - with me feeling like ****. 

I chose her because I had a history with her, my wife hated her and I knew that would make it hurt more, and because she was easy and the chance of rejection was very low. Shortly after that, I wanted to sleep with someone else just to prove I could and to level the playing field. I didn't set the bar very high though because the massive insecurities and fear of rejection were still there. So did it help? Not really. In a normal situation, she wasn't someone that I'd ever look twice at.

So did either help my self-esteem? Eeh, not really. _Sometimes_ it helped in the moment, not always, and it really didn't help after the fact. It was actually worse. Do you know what helped more? Working on the issues in therapy. A ONS is not a quick fix for insecurities, and it may very well cause you more issues. 

Did it help my indecisiveness? Nope, not at all, and it mixed in the issue of "what if she can't forgive this/we can't get passed this". I continued to go back and forth on R or D for years - and 4 years later I still do it sometimes. It obviously didn't help me divorce because I'm still married. 

I did accomplish the goal of hurting my wife. The pain, the insecurities, the obsessive thoughts. Check, check, check. It didn't even matter though, because I felt AWFUL when I had to tell her about it. I didn't feel good or better, or like now we could reconcile. 

So what did RA's do? 

It created a **** ton of more problems to deal with, when we already had enough. It made us both cheaters and double the mess to clean up. It created times when we are both struggling and that's VERY hard to deal with. It made me hate my wife MORE at times because she was hurting and hypocritical as hell, and *I* was supposed to be the hurt one - I didn't want to deal with her feelings about it. 

What else did RA's do? 

It left me feeling like ****, and I already felt bad enough about myself. I didn't need to add on more self-inflicted pain and thoughts. As much as I wanted her to take back the pain that she caused because I didn't want it anymore, it doesn't work that way. I didn't feel like the score was even, so I hurt her some more, and then some more, until I felt like it finally hurt enough. So if you do have a ONS, and it doesn't feel like "enough", then what? Do you do it again? When does it end?

You can never really hurt your husband the exact same way he hurt you. Yes, he can hurt but it's just not the same. It's possible that he might feel BETTER, while you are the one left feeling like garbage. Why would he feel better? Because he got his "punishment", you were just as bad, etc. and now it's time to move on, or he might feel justified in what he did or like it wasn't so bad. 

You can never really even the score or experience what he did, either. Your husband's ONS was driven by thrill and excitement. Yours would be driven by pain and anger. Don't underestimate the difference there. 

A revenge affair isn't the answer. 

Keep your morals and your dignity. It takes time but you can move past what he did to you. The way you are feeling right now doesn't last forever. Your choices do though, and you have to live with them for the rest of your life.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you for always having my back. I am currently in the middle of Vintage Retro’s story.
> Without revealing much more specific/identifying information about who I/we really are, I will just say that our family is highly regarded in our community and military is VERY important to and extremely respected by me and all of my immediate family members. Thank you for your service. You are appreciated!!


Im reading VRs story too. I think youll find closer parallels to Walloped and Waitedwaytoolong 's situations...long term marriages with grown kids (Walloped had some younger as well). The difference in both is that the WWs were SAHMs, that is until the A. Then Mrs W had to get an outside job. You be the judge.

ETA: You could also check out DoneGone 's epic story. His WW posted here under the name Wishes (she got roasted pretty badly here IMO). Once again, long term marriage with grown children.

ETAII: Since you are strongly connected to the military, you could check out Cromer 's post right here at TAM. Guy was a retired O-6 (Marines). Same thing, long term marriage, grown kids. Wife blew it all up.


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## Openminded

Even if you found the other woman, why do you think she would tell you the truth when it doesn’t benefit her? I did have a talk with my exH’s “friend” but it was as pointless as I had suspected it would be. Cheaters lie. Why wouldn’t they.


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## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> I think he is, and I AM TRYING, but God help me. This is the hardest thing I have ever even attempted to endure.
> 
> My head and heart do not agree. My heart loves him while my head says, “WTF are you thinking?!!”


You should not consider reconciliation right now. Why in the world would you try to make these decisions when by your own admission this is a dealbreaker and you don’t know if you WANT to reconcile? 

I can see why you’re even more confused with the hysterical bonding. I did that too and regret all of it. It comes to an end. Then you get to be even more twisted up in the mind. 

You are in a war with yourself right now. What you can and cannot tolerate as a person is your choice. Going out and sleeping with someone is not going to fix anything. If you want to do that, leave your husband and go start dating. See what’s out there. Don’t do it to punish him, you’re going to feel cheap and even more pissed off at your H and also disgusted with yourself afterwards. You can rain down the ultimate consequence for his actions by simply leaving him.


----------



## snowbum

I think hysterical bonding is trying to prove you are better than AP. The thing is you always were better and the man you married didn’t see that. You have nothing to fix. He does. And sad face/tears/ who as me doesn’t fix it


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## Woundidwife

Bobert,
Oh my goodness. My heart breaks for you! Thank you for taking the time to spill your soul—I really appreciate all of your 20/20 insight. This is extremely helpful information (your own reflections and feelings concerning your reactions—not your pain or the depth and agony of your situation). I am awed by your R. That must have been—and probably still is—a road through hell and back. You must be one heck of a human being. I am 100% certain that your WW does not deserve you, despite the RAs. (I am not sure I am as good of a person as my WH believed I was, as I am still unsure, but I am also pretty sure he doesn’t deserve me anymore either.). My reasons would have been similar, but would also include a 29 year curiosity. Maybe I WOULD enjoy the thrill just for spite. (I say these things to hurt my WH, and it works, but the truth is, I don’t think I actually can be with anyone else…fear and conditioning. Kind of like Stockholm syndrome, as I have never been with anyone else: I would have no idea how or even be able to follow through if I could manage to get myself into a situation—and I am pretty sure he knows that. Just one more reason why I feel like I don’t really have a choice but R.) He really doesn’t realize how lucky he was—that I loved him so unconditionally…too bad he didn’t do the same.

DosEquis,
Thank you for trying to find me some comfort in similar threads. I am reading all of them, but none are super similar to my situation. Do ONS survivors just not post as much? I can’t mentally compare this to a full blown affair, and would never minimize the life-destroying effects of anyone’s suffering from either situation…but I have to wonder: would I feel less insulted if he actually had feelings for another human being first? Would it be less humiliating (less of a surprise slap in the face) if he had at least developed a relationship with someone? I know the continued lying and repeated betrayal would be unbearable, but I was thinking maybe an actual human connection would at least have been somewhat understandable—still COMPLETELY UNFORGIVABLE, IMO. However, this is not much different. THIS is devastating to me! Until now, my loyal and honest to a fault (not even feelings-sparing white lies—EVER. If I asked how I looked, he has always been brutally honest.) WH never saw this woman before in his life and within LITERAL MINUTES (yes, much, MUCH less than an hour) of meeting her, he was f***ing her!!!!

I cannot even imagine trying to process any of this alone (not including my IC). It is humiliating, I know, but surely there are BSs who have survived ONS whether R’d or D’d. Where are those folks? How do their stories end? Do they simply post and disappear, never to update?

Is my situation so different and f***ed up that there just is no hope? No happy ending (or at least healed, productive, and content again) in either camp?


----------



## lifeistooshort

And therein lies one of your biggest problems. As long as you don't feel like you have a choice you will feel angry and resentful.

This is a pretty common reaction in the early days after discovery.

Any chance you have to move beyond those feelings lies in your ability to recognize that you DO have a choice and you'd be just fine without him. And you would meet someone else.

And as long as he thinks that you think you have no choice pretty much nothing stops him from doing it again. He's in damage control mode right now but that will pass. It always does.


----------



## Jimi007

lifeistooshort said:


> And therein lies one of your biggest problems. As long as you don't feel like you have a choice you will feel angry and resentful.
> 
> This is a pretty common reaction in the early days after discovery.
> 
> Any chance you have to move beyond those feelings lies in your ability to recognize that you DO have a choice and you'd be just fine without him. And you would meet someone else.
> 
> And as long as he thinks that you think you have no choice pretty much nothing stops him from doing it again. He's in damage control mode right now but that will pass. It always does.


How do you know he will do it again ? Do you have any stats to back that up ?


----------



## Diana7

In the end do you think you could ever trust him again? Can you trust him that it was just the once? In your position I would request that he take a lie detector test and see what he says. Through that you could make sure it was just once and make sure that it hasn't happened with another woman before.
I know that for me the trust would be gone but we are all different. I would advise a separation with minimal contact of say 3 months so that you can make a decision without him influencing you. A separation would also show him the consequences of what he did and that you are seriously thinking about ending it. I definitely wouldn't be having sex with him because to me that is like rewarding his betrayal.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Jimi007 said:


> How do you know he will do it again ? Do you have any stats to back that up ?


Don't believe I said he will.

I said nothing is stopping him if he thinks, as she said, that in her mind she has no choice. He needs to understand he's getting a huge gift if she sticks around, bur it's not much of a gift if she has no choice now is it?


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> DosEquis,
> Thank you for trying to find me some comfort in similar threads. I am reading all of them, but none are super similar to my situation. Do ONS survivors just not post as much? I can’t mentally compare this to a full blown affair, and would never minimize the life-destroying effects of anyone’s suffering from either situation…but I have to wonder: would I feel less insulted if he actually had feelings for another human being first? Would it be less humiliating (less of a surprise slap in the face) if he had at least developed a relationship with someone? I know the continued lying and repeated betrayal would be unbearable, but I was thinking maybe an actual human connection would at least have been somewhat understandable—still COMPLETELY UNFORGIVABLE, IMO. However, this is not much different. THIS is devastating to me! Until now, my loyal and honest to a fault (not even feelings-sparing white lies—EVER. If I asked how I looked, he has always been brutally honest.) WH never saw this woman before in his life and within LITERAL MINUTES (yes, much, MUCH less than an hour) of meeting her, he was f***ing her!!!!
> 
> I cannot even imagine trying to process any of this alone (not including my IC). It is humiliating, I know, but surely there are BSs who have survived ONS whether R’d or D’d. Where are those folks? How do their stories end? Do they simply post and disappear, never to update?
> 
> Is my situation so different and f***ed up that there just is no hope? No happy ending (or at least healed, productive, and content again) in either camp?


So, here are some of my thoughts. Yes, there are threads of ONS betrayals but they do not have the marital history you do and, like the others, they are a mixed bag of D and R. Not sure how deep you got into WWTL's post, but he is on record as stating that if his wifes A had been a ONS, he thinks he could have worked through it. As you read, Wallopeds betrayal was absolutely brutal, his WW's subsequent massive remorse notwithstanding. You could read Bdell 's thread (also former military, not sure of which branch). His wife had a very brief affair, long term marriage, both professionals, kids in college. She did not confess, He stumbled on the evidence. I do believe you will relate to his horror and conflicted emotions and thoughts all ajumble before leaning toward R. Like your WH, his WW was incredibly remorseful. So much so that even the hardcore D crowd over at SI were advising him to give her a chance.

My posts here are designed for one thing and one thing only, to help give you mental/emotional breathing room. To provide a polynya for you to come up from the depths of your anguish and take a breather from this torturous maelstrom.

Ive not advised D or R (although I do have an opinion), because that is not what I think you need right now. What I believe you need and are despesprate for is *clarity. *As you read and get therapy (Ive got years under my belt), looking for clues, insights, and direction, i really do believe that you will dial in a focus on the path forward for you.

One thing that you can come to grips with now though, is that whether you D or R, you will need to mourn the death of the old marriage and youll need time to do so. Some people have an actual ceremony (not just the divorce proceedings if D is decided on) to commemorate the old being gone. Ive read of people burying a container with wedding albums, photos, even the old marriage license. One guy threw out *everything *from the old marriage, albums, memorabilia, wedding dress, tux, all of it and burned it in a funeral pyre in his back yard before proceeding with an attempted R. Why? One word. *Closure.* Even Bdell took back his wifes wedding rings as she wore them during her brief affair and said to her that he would get new ones if they R'd. Why? Because he needed closure leading to clarity. Closure and a clean break from the old, from the tainted, from the reminders of the ultimate betrayal.

You, ma'am, are on a quest. A quest for closure and clarity that was literally *forced* on you out of the ever-lovin' blue. As you fight through this, my hope is that you'll find "guideposts" along the way and that some of those will be via the like experiences of others.

ETA: As you peruse these threads for insight, remember the words of a wise poster on another site when he said, "*The worst betrayal story is the one that happened to you*."


----------



## bobert

snowbum said:


> I think hysterical bonding is trying to prove you are better than AP. The thing is you always were better and the man you married didn’t see that. You have nothing to fix. He does. And sad face/tears/ who as me doesn’t fix it


For me, it was more about reclaiming what was mine.



Woundidwife said:


> Bobert,
> Oh my goodness. My heart breaks for you! Thank you for taking the time to spill your soul—I really appreciate all of your 20/20 insight. This is extremely helpful information (your own reflections and feelings concerning your reactions—not your pain or the depth and agony of your situation). I am awed by your R. That must have been—and probably still is—a road through hell and back. You must be one heck of a human being. I am 100% certain that your WW does not deserve you, despite the RAs. (I am not sure I am as good of a person as my WH believed I was, as I am still unsure, but I am also pretty sure he doesn’t deserve me anymore either.). My reasons would have been similar, but would also include a 29 year curiosity. Maybe I WOULD enjoy the thrill just for spite. (I say these things to hurt my WH, and it works, but the truth is, I don’t think I actually can be with anyone else…fear and conditioning. Kind of like Stockholm syndrome, as I have never been with anyone else: I would have no idea how or even be able to follow through if I could manage to get myself into a situation—and I am pretty sure he knows that. Just one more reason why I feel like I don’t really have a choice but R.) He really doesn’t realize how lucky he was—that I loved him so unconditionally…too bad he didn’t do the same.


Something to keep in mind, with mine and every other story, is that you're usually only getting one side. I succeeded in making her well hated here and IRL but no one heard her side or got the full story from me. I'm not saying she was justified in what she did (she wasn't and made a ton of awful choices), but I was far from a good husband and she put up with a lot from me.

I have a hard time saying we're reconciling. That was the goal and we're still together, but we're definitely not making any progress anymore. A lot of that is because of the RAs. If I hadn't done what I did, I think we would be in a far better place than we are right now. Nearly all of our issues now are from what I did, not what she did. And that kinda sucks.

You do have a choice. It may not feel like it, but you do, and you could be just fine without him. It can take a long time to realize that though.



> DosEquis,
> Thank you for trying to find me some comfort in similar threads. I am reading all of them, but none are super similar to my situation. Do ONS survivors just not post as much? I can’t mentally compare this to a full blown affair, and would never minimize the life-destroying effects of anyone’s suffering from either situation…but I have to wonder: would I feel less insulted if he actually had feelings for another human being first? Would it be less humiliating (less of a surprise slap in the face) if he had at least developed a relationship with someone? I know the continued lying and repeated betrayal would be unbearable, but I was thinking maybe an actual human connection would at least have been somewhat understandable—still COMPLETELY UNFORGIVABLE, IMO. However, this is not much different. THIS is devastating to me! Until now, my loyal and honest to a fault (not even feelings-sparing white lies—EVER. If I asked how I looked, he has always been brutally honest.) WH never saw this woman before in his life and within LITERAL MINUTES (yes, much, MUCH less than an hour) of meeting her, he was f***ing her!!!!
> 
> I cannot even imagine trying to process any of this alone (not including my IC). It is humiliating, I know, but surely there are BSs who have survived ONS whether R’d or D’d. Where are those folks? How do their stories end? Do they simply post and disappear, never to update?
> 
> Is my situation so different and f***ed up that there just is no hope? No happy ending (or at least healed, productive, and content again) in either camp?


Honestly (and I don't mean this in a mean way), there is nothing special or different about your story. You most likely won't find a thread that feels exactly like your situation, because no two situations are exactly the same. Even if you do find a situation that is similar to yours, your story won't play out the exact same way. For me, reading others and finding the bits and pieces of relatability did/does help.

I'm not great at keeping track of stories here, but here is a guy who had a ONS 10 years ago. So it's from the other side. If I remember correctly, his ONS started at a hotel bar. He asked to be banned so he's not around here anymore, and I think he stopped updating his threads a long time ago, but I can tell you that they are still together, happy, and feel that they have "moved on". 

There is hope and it does get better but that takes time, and I know that doesn't help right now. For me, it was a little less than 11 months of hell, then things started to feel pretty good (for a while, but that was kind of the turning point). Of course I don't know for sure but I would think choosing to divorce would speed up the timeline.


----------



## QuietRiot

OP, you seem to be struggling with several issues. 1) You are no longer his one and only sex partner. You think that’s unfair since he is yours. (He probably places a lot of value on you staying that way as well) 2) You don’t feel like you have options in leaving, even though you seem to want to leave. 3) You suspect you will be forever unhappy if you stay because you know this is likely something that is a dealbreaker. 

I don’t think these things are going to disappear from your brain until you flesh them out. I think you should go see a lawyer to discuss what your finances might look like if you were to leave. See what kind of life that would afford you and then you at least have some information and don’t assume it wouldn’t be possible. Educated decisions and all that. 

Here is another thing… I think you’ve mentioned somewhere your H has been controlling, your friends were surprised by this? If that is true… when someone says you build a new marriage, that doesn’t mean suddenly you’re then married to a man who becomes a different person altogether and fixes his character to become Mr. Perfect. Is he someone you WANT to stay married to? If he was controlling… why did you love him “unconditionally”? My point here is I think you have some personal boundary issues to sort out. If you are in a controlling relationship, no wonder you’re having problems finding your own strength and peace of mind to be decisive.


----------



## SunCMars

Woundidwife said:


> On a positive note, I made myself food for the first time in over a month this morning. Breakfast at 9:45ish. Food I actually wanted to eat and did eat. After a semi-restful night of sleep.
> 
> 
> He has been feeding me…doing all the cooking, cleaning, yard work,etc. His normal chores and mine, too. He has been stir crazy, so he keeps himself busy, and it is good because I could now give a f*** about the cleanliness of my beautiful home (where we entertain large groups of friends and family, and people always ask if we hold events here!!!) that I loved and cared for—for many, many years. I have not lifted a finger, and he has not said a word. He is suddenly “happy” to do everything for me.
> 
> 
> We both had about 20-30lbs of spare tire…Much to my dismay, my WH has had trouble eating and only eats when we are together, so has lost about 20lbs and body-wise looks fantastic (minus the haggard lack of sleep eye baggage, and perma-sadness on his face.). I, on the other hand, eat when he feeds me and aside from the first few days of complete starvation, and a few really depressed days when I can’t eat have begun stress eating (junk) or maybe just the stress is holding fast whatever I do eat…? I lost 7lbs in the first 4 days, but am back to just -5 now. (None of this has contributed to or detracted from my need for A LOT of hysterical bonding. I am SOOO MESSED UP in the head!!!!!)
> 
> I actually yelled this at him on day 1: If you were going to do this to me, why didn’t you do it when I was younger and had better bait?!
> 
> Such is my emotional roller coaster. And I already mentioned how much I hate those.
> 
> He is focusing on the positive and rebuilding. Trying to plan positive activities for us to do together. He calls to see if I am okay. He tells me that I am the best thing to have ever happened in his life and that he knows he f***ed it up. He holds me when I cry and often cries with me. He apologizes and concedes that he is the cause multiple times daily. He is presently trying to apologize to our grown children, but I do not think they are quite ready for that either. He was (is?) a good man, could be the “better husband”. I just need to decide if this is too little too late. Would I be happier in the long run with someone who has never broken my trust? Maybe. Could I try that route and realize I have thrown away what could have been wonderful—just like he did? Maybe.
> 
> The grass still has to be mowed on the other side. 😔


Wow!

How_ wonderfu_l he is now treating you!

You should (set him up) to fail every couple of years.
That should keep you in/on your Royal Throne, forever.

_Shame_, it does have its limits.
You have no shame and no limits.

Uh, sorry, I felt compelled to write this..

Lighten up, you won the war.




_The Typist-_


----------



## Woundidwife

New details that leave me more devastated. Didn’t happen on the night I thought, but instead on the night BEFORE, when there was NO phone disagreement. So the flimsy, “Maybe, I can understand, because he was angry with me” excuse that I have been envisioning and hanging onto by a thread IS GONE. 

Told him we need to separate for a while. Really need time to clear my head and make my own decision—not the one that he prefers.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> New details that leave me more devastated. Didn’t happen on the night I thought, but instead on the night BEFORE, when there was NO phone disagreement. So the flimsy, “Maybe, I can understand, because he was angry with me” excuse that I have been envisioning and hanging onto by a thread IS GONE.
> 
> Told him we need to separate for a while. Really need time to clear my head and make my own decision—not the one that he prefers.


Uh huh. Welcome to the world of blatant lies and trickle truth with a sprinkle of gaslighting. 

Im so sorry, this is probably another devastating blow but it tells you exactly what everyone has said, the affair had NOTHING to do with you. It was him, and he wanted to. Also, you can now understand that he wasn’t “chased”, he was a willing participant. 

I think your plan to separate and get space from him is a good one. Clear your head as long as you need to.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> So, here are some of my thoughts. Yes, there are threads of ONS betrayals but they do not have the marital history you do and, like the others, they are a mixed bag of D and R. Not sure how deep you got into WWTL's post, but he is on record as stating that if his wifes A had been a ONS, he thinks he could have worked through it. As you read, Wallopeds betrayal was absolutely brutal, his WW's subsequent massive remorse notwithstanding. You could read Bdell 's thread (also former military, not sure of which branch). His wife had a very brief affair, long term marriage, both professionals, kids in college. She did not confess, He stumbled on the evidence. I do believe you will relate to his horror and conflicted emotions and thoughts all ajumble before leaning toward R. Like your WH, his WW was incredibly remorseful. So much so that even the hardcore D crowd over at SI were advising him to give her a chance.
> 
> My posts here are designed for one thing and one thing only, to help give you mental/emotional breathing room. To provide a polynya for you to come up from the depths of your anguish and take a breather from this torturous maelstrom.
> 
> Ive not advised D or R (although I do have an opinion), because that is not what I think you need right now. What I believe you need and are despesprate for is *clarity. *As you read and get therapy (Ive got years under my belt), looking for clues, insights, and direction, i really do believe that you will dial in a focus on the path forward for you.
> 
> One thing that you can come to grips with now though, is that whether you D or R, you will need to mourn the death of the old marriage and youll need time to do so. Some people have an actual ceremony (not just the divorce proceedings if D is decided on) to commemorate the old being gone. Ive read of people burying a container with wedding albums, photos, even the old marriage license. One guy threw out *everything *from the old marriage, albums, memorabilia, wedding dress, tux, all of it and burned it in a funeral pyre in his back yard before proceeding with an attempted R. Why? One word. *Closure.* Even Bdell took back his wifes wedding rings as she wore them during her brief affair and said to her that he would get new ones if they R'd. Why? Because he needed closure leading to clarity. Closure and a clean break from the old, from the tainted, from the reminders of the ultimate betrayal.
> 
> You, ma'am, are on a quest. A quest for closure and clarity that was literally *forced* on you out of the ever-lovin' blue. As you fight through this, my hope is that you'll find "guideposts" along the way and that some of those will be via the like experiences of others.
> 
> ETA: As you peruse these threads for insight, remember the words of a wise poster on another site when he said, "*The worst betrayal story is the one that happened to you*."


Yes, I AM on a quest. I will probably burn the beautiful wedding gown that a family member made for me and I have saved all these years. His wedding band does indeed need to go, since it meant so little and touched that woman.
So is it unusual for a 27 year marriage to experience a ONS? Is this why many posters have said it likely isn’t his first one? 

I would be interested in hearing your opinion. The bulk of my (real life) sounding board listeners are tight lipped, but I am pretty sure they have settled in the D camp, but that is not affecting the way I feel or what I will do, moving forward.

He “couldn’t remember exactly” what day it was, but named and event I had done that day as a possible catalyst. That was not correct, which I discovered by reviewing cell and text information with my carrier—which day he was available to do such a dastardly deed.
QuietRiot—yes, NOW I believe that it had NOTHING to do with me and everything to do with him WANTING THIS. This revelation feels like a game-changer for me, though, as I was leaning heavily towards R up until yesterday.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Of course he doesn't "prefer it".

If he's not in your face he can't conduct damage control....if you have a chance to clear your head he can't ******** you.

I don't know that most of us are telling you to divorce him. We're telling you that you have to get away from him so he can't manipulate you with damage control...where you feel like you have no choice and its just easier to let him cook you breakfast and cry crocodile tears.

Healthy reconciliation comes from a place of power where you know exactly what you're forgiving and your cheater spouse is doing what you ask and giving you all the time and space you need.

You have none of that right now.


----------



## Diana7

Woundidwife said:


> New details that leave me more devastated. Didn’t happen on the night I thought, but instead on the night BEFORE, when there was NO phone disagreement. So the flimsy, “Maybe, I can understand, because he was angry with me” excuse that I have been envisioning and hanging onto by a thread IS GONE.
> 
> Told him we need to separate for a while. Really need time to clear my head and make my own decision—not the one that he prefers.


Yep, have a no contact separation. Then he can't control you by his words or actions. Even if it was that night, having a row is NO excuse for cheating. I am sure after 3 months or so of thought and reflection you will know what to do. Don't let him talk you out of it and if he contacts you during that time then block him. 
Have you thought about a lie detector test? That should at least enable you to know whether it is indeed a once off as he claims. Right now you can't trust him.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> I would be interested in hearing your opinion. The bulk of my sounding board listeners are tight lipped, but I am pretty sure they have settled in the D camp, but that is not affecting the way I feel or what I will do, moving forward.


I haven’t told you to D or R. But it is a mistake to even THINK of R right now, you don’t even have an accurate picture of what happened. You don’t even know what you’d be reconciling with! You have lies, and more lies, and some hysterical bonding. 

Can you answer whether he has been controlling in your marriage?


----------



## Jimi007

I was hoping this wasn't the case...trickle truth....


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> I would be interested in hearing your opinion. The bulk of my sounding board listeners are tight lipped, but I am pretty sure they have settled in the D camp, but that is not affecting the way I feel or what I will do, moving forward.
> 
> He “couldn’t remember exactly” what day it was, but named and event I had done that day as a possible catalyst. That was not correct, which I discovered by reviewing cell and text information with my carrier—which day he was available to do such a dastardly deed.
> QuietRiot—yes, NOW I believe that it had NOTHING to do with me and everything to do with him WANTING THIS. This revelation feels like a game-changer for me, though, as I was leaning heavily towards R up until yesterday.


There is some MORE blatant lying. He remembers the date, time and duration of his affair with ABSOLUTE clarity. He’s been lying to you this entire time to assign some of the responsibility for his affair upon you, right up until now. Does that sound like a man who is SO SORRY, or does that sound like a man trying to cover his own ass so he can get his way? 

Your H is garbage.


----------



## Woundidwife

QuietRiot said:


> There is some MORE blatant lying. He remembers the date, time and duration of his affair with ABSOLUTE clarity. He’s been lying to you this entire time to assign some of the responsibility for his affair upon you, right up until now. Does that sound like a man who is SO SORRY, or does that sound like a man trying to cover his own ass so he can get his way?
> 
> Your H is garbage.


ONS. He confessed to me a month later, couldn’t remember which day it was since I was away for 4 days. 
Yes, somewhat controlling.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> ONS. He confessed to me a month later, couldn’t remember which day it was since I was away for 4 days.
> Yes, somewhat controlling.


You honestly believe the man can’t remember which day his affair was on? He was sure happy to pin it on you for making him angry the day it didn’t actually happen though. 

He is STILL controlling what you know. Make no mistake about that. I hope and pray you get away from him and go NO CONTACT like Diana said. You need to detox from this guy so you can get some clear thinking.


----------



## bobert

Woundidwife said:


> ONS. He confessed to me a month later, couldn’t remember which day it was since I was away for 4 days.
> Yes, somewhat controlling.


I call ******** on that. This isn't like asking him if he ate pancakes for breakfast on Tuesday or Thursday. He absolutely remembers when he had a ONS and if it was before or after that fight. If he doesn't, then I'd say that means it was nothing of significance to him. Aka, he's done it many times before.


----------



## Sfort

Woundidwife said:


> ONS. He confessed to me a month later, couldn’t remember which day it was since I was away for 4 days.
> Yes, somewhat controlling.


You're in for more surprises as time goes on. Either ignore that it happened, or take action to get your life back.


----------



## snowbum

He blamed you for cheating and admits he just wanted to. Mark my words he knows her and she’s not a stranger and he planned this knowing you would be gone. You should get gone. He’s a jerk.


----------



## snowbum

The fact he’s still lying is proof he does not respect you. You don’t love who you don’t respect.


----------



## re16

Woundidwife said:


> New details that leave me more devastated. Didn’t happen on the night I thought, but instead on the night BEFORE, when there was NO phone disagreement. So the flimsy, “Maybe, I can understand, because he was angry with me” excuse that I have been envisioning and hanging onto by a thread IS GONE.
> 
> Told him we need to separate for a while. Really need time to clear my head and make my own decision—not the one that he prefers.


@Woundidwife

This is the type of thing many of the "jaded" posters worry about... one thinks they are starting to recover and new / more information comes out that is painful and resets the whole thing.

Sometimes it happens years later, and it is back to square one.

I would highly recommend that he take a polygraph for your sake.

ETA: going years down the road only to feel like you were duped is worse than what you already feel....


----------



## re16

snowbum said:


> The fact he’s still lying is proof he does not respect you. You don’t love who you don’t respect.


Yes, and how can you forgive if you don't know what you are forgiving? OP, you were trying to and you didn't know the details... get all the details before you commit to forgive.


----------



## re16

snowbum said:


> Mark my words he knows her and she’s not a stranger and he planned this knowing you would be gone


I also agree with this it is very likely related to why he confessed, he was probably threatened by her that she would tell....


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Yes, I AM on a quest. I will probably burn the beautiful wedding gown that a family member made for me and I have saved all these years. His wedding band does indeed need to go, since it meant so little and touched that woman.
> So is it unusual for a 27 year marriage to experience a ONS? Is this why many posters have said it likely isn’t his first one?
> 
> I would be interested in hearing your opinion. The bulk of my (real life) sounding board listeners are tight lipped, but I am pretty sure they have settled in the D camp, but that is not affecting the way I feel or what I will do, moving forward.
> 
> He “couldn’t remember exactly” what day it was, but named and event I had done that day as a possible catalyst. That was not correct, which I discovered by reviewing cell and text information with my carrier—which day he was available to do such a dastardly deed.
> QuietRiot—yes, NOW I believe that it had NOTHING to do with me and everything to do with him WANTING THIS. This revelation feels like a game-changer for me, though, as I was leaning heavily towards R up until yesterday.


*Dammit*. Just when you think MAYBE you have a forthcoming cheater, you dont. Just like all the other mealy mouthed dissimulators out there.

OK. Carefully. Heres what I think. I told you before that I believed you needed space between you as a buffer. I am now doubling down on that. You should look into a formal seperation agreement.

Everything he has said is cast in doubt now. Even if you were to consider reconciliation, who are you even reconciling with? His response that he could not remember exactly is pure BS. This makes me very suspicious that more is going on here than he is admitting to.

One thing is an absolute mantra among the Betrayed and it is that infidelity may destroy the marriage, but lies, trickle truth, minimizing, and gaslighting are the nails in the coffin that kill the chances for reconciliation. I am a probability and statistics guy. The probabilty that there is more just jumped exponentially IMO. The probability for reconciliation just dropped commensurately.

Im going to give you the same advise Id give a good friend or family member (and have)....its time to go into full self protection/preservation mode.


----------



## aine

Woundidwife said:


> He suspected I was drunk at my work event (I wasn’t). He heard laughing in the background (others possibly were) and he said he couldn’t talk to me. I don’t listen to him.


He sounds so bloody immature for an old married man. Does he usually throw tantrums?


----------



## aine

Woundidwife said:


> ONS. He confessed to me a month later, couldn’t remember which day it was since I was away for 4 days.
> Yes, somewhat controlling.


He is not remorseful. Only sorry he got caught, I suspect this was not his first rodeo. Has your marriage been having any issues? Maybe he came clean cause she threatened to tell or someone you knew saw him. There’s more to this, much more.


----------



## oldshirt

Woundidwife said:


> New details that leave me more devastated. Didn’t happen on the night I thought, but instead on the night BEFORE, when there was NO phone disagreement. So the flimsy, “Maybe, I can understand, because he was angry with me” excuse that I have been envisioning and hanging onto by a thread IS GONE.
> 
> Told him we need to separate for a while. Really need time to clear my head and make my own decision—not the one that he prefers.


Out of my own curiosity, how did this new information come to light?


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis,
I am disappointed in him (obviously), and yes, he does remember the following day before I came home (now). He WAS already drunk when he left our home and had a month of actively TRYING TO FORGET under his belt before he even confessed. I think he IS the unicorn of cheaters, though, as he supposedly stopped mid-act and left. (Would LOVE confirmation on this however). He originally told me about the shock on the the “woman” (tramp’s) face as he said he had to go.
He may be able to have discarded 27 years in the blink of an eye, (which he says he did not intend to do; repeatedly that it had nothing to do with me; and that he has never imagined, cannot imagine, and does not want a life without me) but I am having more difficulty with throwing away 27 years of marriage…29 years together.

Oldshirt,
I have been scrutinizing our phone records. The calls and texts made on the night in question, he kept telling me he didn’t remember and couldn’t have happened on that day…So he said it may have been the day prior. After checking those and walking through them with him, he was certain it was that night. He believes this should change nothing as he was still despicable (and had apparently been harboring some undeserved, low-level anger for me for some time—specifically concerning me taking on the work aspect that included travel for the first time ever), however, as my understanding and willingness to even CONSIDER trying to forgive up until now had been based on the fact that I thought it was on the night we had a minuscule argument. CRUSHED all over again..


----------



## bobert

Woundidwife said:


> I am disappointed in him (obviously), and yes, he does remember the following day before I came home (now). He WAS already drunk when he left our home and had a month of actively TRYING TO FORGET under his belt before he even confessed. I think he IS the unicorn of cheaters, though, as he supposedly stopped mid-act and left. (Would LOVE confirmation on this however). He originally told me about the shock on the the “woman” (tramp’s) face as he said he had to go.


You're making excuses for your husband. I still call BS. He can try to forget all he wants, it doesn't work that way. 

It's also highly unlikely he stopped mid-act. It's possible, but I've seen that written here many times. It's a way to ease the blow, and is a lie. 

If you want the truth, do a polygraph. You get three questions, use them wisely.


----------



## Woundidwife

bobert said:


> You're making excuses for your husband. I still call BS. He can try to forget all he wants, it doesn't work that way.
> 
> It's also highly unlikely he stopped mid-act. It's possible, but I've seen that written here many times. It's a way to ease the blow, and is a lie.
> 
> If you want the truth, do a polygraph. You get three questions, use them wisely.


Private, personal details about my WH while drunk had me questioning all of this from the very beginning. Stopping in mid-act is the most realistic thing of all the details I have been provided, though it would be debatable that his conscience was the determining factor—as I wish but cannot prove it was.

How would I go about doing a polygraph?


----------



## bobert

Woundidwife said:


> Private, personal details about my WH while drunk had me questioning all of this from the very beginning. Stopping in mid-act is the most realistic thing of all the details I have been provided, though it would be debatable that his conscience was the determining factor—as I wish but cannot prove it was.


If he usually can't get an erection while drunk, then that would poke more holes in his story. If he usually can't stay erect or can't "finish" while drunk, then that's really not stopping mid-act. It's stopping because his body was finished, one way or another.

If he had a conscience that was going to kick in, it had many prior chances to do so.


----------



## snowbum

He didn’t stop. Come on now. You want to believe whatever he says and now you’re buying into his attempts to be “ funny” .. “ you should have seen her face”. Really? Really? This guy says he was so concerned about his wife as he’s cheating? Nope


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> DosEquis,
> I am disappointed in him (obviously), and yes, he does remember the following day before I came home (now). He WAS already drunk when he left our home and had a month of actively TRYING TO FORGET under his belt before he even confessed. I think he IS the unicorn of cheaters, though, as he supposedly stopped mid-act and left. (Would LOVE confirmation on this however). He originally told me about the shock on the the “woman” (tramp’s) face as he said he had to go.
> He may be able to have discarded 27 years in the blink of an eye, (which he says he did not intend to do; repeatedly that it had nothing to do with me; and that he has never imagined, cannot imagine, and does not want a life without me) but I am having more difficulty with throwing away 27 years of marriage…29 years together.


My responses to situations like this are generally moderate. I am ALWAYS in the Betrayed's corner. Always. I try to feed into discussions with points that may be missed in the melee. Many times I am at odds with the "D at all costs" crowd. Now though, the proverbial "canaries in the coal mine" are starting to die. Im going to address your response point by point:

• "He WAS already drunk when he left our home" - This makes it worse IMO. Not only was he involved in adultery ("infidelity" and "affair" sound too benign), he didnt have the sense to not over drink. Beyond that, its no excuse and is certainly not an explanation.

• "(He) had a month of actively TRYING TO FORGET under his belt before he even confessed" - Self prompted confession is a point in his favor Ill grant you but dont make too much of it, especially now that he is tt'ing you.

• "I think he IS the unicorn of cheaters, though, as he supposedly stopped mid-act and left. (Would LOVE confirmation on this however). He originally told me about the shock on the the “woman” (tramp’s) face as he said he had to go." - Unicorn or not, he did it. Gently, this is an attempt at minimization. Who cares how many times he did the actual physical act with her that time? I mean, once consumated is it really supposed to help you that he said he stopped after only so many times? (Sorry to be graphic but I feel a need to make this point to you as Im now catching a whiff of hopium in the air and you cannot afford it. Know why I know? I used to be a hopium junky and it caused me SO much more pain and devestation). Trickle truth is generally the harbinger of worse things to come.

• "He may be able to have discarded 27 years in the blink of an eye, (which he says he did not intend to do; repeatedly that it had nothing to do with me; and that he has never imagined, cannot imagine, and does not want a life without me) but I am having more difficulty with throwing away 27 years of marriage…29 years together." - This is the crux of the matter and I get that. TWENTY SEVEN YEARS of marital history doesnt just fade overnight. Its huge. Thats why, again. I advised a middle way, i.e. legal seperation vs divorce, which would leave options open for you. As to the whole, "he says he did not intend to do; repeatedly that it had nothing to do with me; and that he has never imagined, cannot imagine, and does not want a life without me," I could hear hundreds of eyeballs click as they rolled upward after reading this oft repeated refrain by WS's, "didnt mean....didnt intend...not about....cant imagine...ad nauseum). This is pure deflection. What he should be saying is something like, "I did it because I wanted to in the moment. I was trying to fill something in myself, a flaw I didnt know I had. I KNEW absolutely that it would crush you and had the potential to destroy us but in that moment, my selfish desire, lust and felt need for affirmation was more important to me than us and our 29 year history. I was wrong then. I am wrong now and will work tirelessly to fix what is wrong in me and prove myself over time to be the safe life partner you deserve. Should you choose not to continue with me as your husband, I will still continue to work on myself and deal with my massive failure as a spouse and as a man."

Ill say it again, if you decide on R, you need to have a minimum threshold of verifiability and transparency met in order to know who you are trying to R with. The only way I know of to help achieve that is through a polygraph which I think is an absolute must at this point. The rest of your life's happiness is at stake.

Now, there are LOTS of debates about the value of polys which to me are just foolish. Government agencies and corporations use them as tools all of the time. Know why? Its not just the test itself, its knowing the test is coming. That claims will be verified. The fact that an impending polygraph prompts "parking lot confessions" in WS's is well documented. Use it. 

I know your emotions are raw and beat up. I know you have whiplash by this point and are severely traumatized. I am like a voice coming to you from a decades old betrayal whispering in your ear the lessons learned, bought and paid for in years of pain and seemingly oceans of tears.

I wish you well.


----------



## DosEquis

BTW, I responded but my response got got flagged for review. Guess I may have been too graphic and used one explative. I have since ammended and hope it now passes review by the mods. Not gonna retype as it was pretty extensive (for me).

ETA: it just cleared review.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

The fact that he can't pinpoint the day it happened tells me it happened more than once. How else could you realistically explain it? I mean, if you never cheated in a 27 year marriage, you damn sure will remember the day you broke that streak. Sounds like trickle truth to me. Before you know it, he will have had sex with her every day you were gone.


----------



## LisaDiane

Woundidwife said:


> Private, personal details about my WH while drunk had me questioning all of this from the very beginning. Stopping in mid-act is the most realistic thing of all the details I have been provided, though it would be debatable that his conscience was the determining factor—as I wish but cannot prove it was.
> 
> How would I go about doing a polygraph?


Does stopping mid-act really matter to you? Does that actually lessen the betrayal?


----------



## re16

Woundidwife said:


> I think he IS the unicorn of cheaters, though, as he supposedly stopped mid-act and left.


You can't seriously believe this. If he is telling you this kind of thing, he is lying to you. Right now, today, lying to you. Still.


----------



## QuietRiot

I can’t stop rolling my eyes, not disrespectfully to you OP, but you don’t understand he is not a unicorn. He’s just like every other cheater. He’s got the script alright and you’re buying it. You are allowing yourself to be manipulated, thinking it will hurt less. These are the lies and details that will haunt you when you’re sleeping next to him 2, 5, 10 years from now.


----------



## Woundidwife

bobert said:


> If he usually can't get an erection while drunk, then that would poke more holes in his story. If he usually can't stay erect or can't "finish" while drunk, then that's really not stopping mid-act. It's stopping because his body was finished, one way or another.
> 
> If he had a conscience that was going to kick in, it had many prior chances to do so.


Getting and keeping have NEVER been a problem in all our 29 years togethe—no matter the circumstances (alcohol included), so yes, stopping mid-act (or even losing) would be a massive deal.


----------



## TXTrini

Sorry to break it to you, no cheater is a unicorn. My exH did something similar, he told me he realized he was having inappropriate contact with a coworker and cut it off before she got the wrong idea since she was a nice, impressionable kid. He tried to make out like he was so considerate of my feelings and just wanted to tell the truth. Then to find out a year year that he was screwing the impressionable kid...

He simply trying to cover his ass and do image control. He wants to look like the good guy, who just made a tiny mistake. 27-29 years is a lot of history... a lot of history he didn't GAF about. It's your choice what you choose to believe and do, but make sure you can live with it, and not worry about what he's doing when he's not right in front of you.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> Getting and keeping have NEVER been a problem in all our 29 years togethe—no matter the circumstances (alcohol included), so yes, stopping mid-act (or even losing) would be a massive deal.


Think straight for a minute here…Are you going to base reconciliation on how many pumps he says he got in? Like at least it was 15 pumps and not 62… For real?

The mental gymnastics you’re doing here is award worthy.


----------



## re16

Woundidwife said:


> How would I go about doing a polygraph?


I think all you really have to do is this: Have him write out a timeline of what happened with as much detail as possible.

When you have that, tell that you have an appointment set up for him to take one, drive to an office building, park there 30 to 45 mins before supposed appointment, see what more truths come out...

You don't even need a real appointment.

If you want a real one, usually law enforcement in the area has someone they use.... try to find out who that is.


----------



## TexasMom1216

In the coming days/weeks, I predict he will come to you tell you that there is gossip, started by this jilted ONS, that they were in a relationship. He will assure you that she is just jealous and it’s not true.

I think he told you because someone else knows and this has been going on for a long time, or because the other woman threatened to tell you. I got crucified for it before, but I stand by it. You barely know anything about this yet.

If you stay, he will do it again. I’m not saying that to be mean. I’m saying it because you seem really sweet and innocent and you deserve better than this.Take it or leave it, but I really hope you protect yourself.


----------



## re16

Switch your tactic to assuming there is much more to the story until proven otherwise... in lieu of trusting a lying cheater, which never works out.

You've hit an iceberg, and most of it is still below the surface.


----------



## DosEquis

Just read the account of a guy married 27 years who's wife had a brief affair with someone at her gym. He divorced her and said this, "*I just cant understand her incredible lack of judgment. She knew exactly what she was risking.*"

This is the crux. Its like the CS says, "Im going to risk it *all* for a fleeting feel good and sexual pleasure with some strange."

How in the ever lovin world do you get back to a level of trust needed for a true life partnership in the covenant of marriage? Answer? You dont. If you R, you settle for something far less. And that "far less" costs you *far more* than the other ever did. Its a terrible deal.

Even thirtyyearssmore said that his R cost him much of the good in him decades after his betrayal and that he still triggered regularly after that many years. My god. *The cost*.

ETA: Witness this guy


----------



## Woundidwife

I do not believe there is any more to the story. He has not changed anything from day one. Realizing EXACTLY WHICH day it was has hurt me more, but he DID keep telling me that he didn’t remember (specific things that cell records indicated what) happened on the day that I believed. It does still make him a d***head, however, and he still didn’t even give me a thought to be able to give himself permission to have a ONS in the first place. Obviously, he has some issues to resolve in IC. I have my own appointment this evening and he has just left to begin an informal separation. 

I do still love him. I have seen him returning to man I married years ago. I do believe I will miss him while we are separated, but will make plans to keep myself busy and remember who I was before all of this and before becoming stifled myself.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Woundidwife said:


> Private, personal details about my WH while drunk had me questioning all of this from the very beginning. Stopping in mid-act is the most realistic thing of all the details I have been provided, though it would be debatable that his conscience was the determining factor—as I wish but cannot prove it was.
> 
> How would I go about doing a polygraph?


Contact your local probation/parole office. Ask to speak to the sex offender officer, they can give you information on who they use. The one for our office came out of DFW or up from Houston.


----------



## snowbum

I would be concerned he’s going to cheat while separated. Who instigated separation? And how long will he be gone?


----------



## Woundidwife

I did, and he will be very occupied in a (satisfactory to me) controlled environment, zero opportunity for that.


----------



## snowbum

What do you mean by that? He’s being watched? He’s going to resent that kind of treatment.


----------



## Woundidwife

No details. Not putting a spotlight on our lives (with identifying information). I am happy with the separation. This was needed.


----------



## DosEquis

Purposeful seperation can be a good thing. As you are comfortable with the parameters given all that has gone down, do you have a clear idea as to what you want to get out of this time apart? Additionally, have you given serious thought to requiring a polygraph to back up his claim(s) should you decide to consider reconciliation?


----------



## Woundidwife

I want some time to think on my own without any input from WH. Going to spend time with people who appreciate me and do things that I enjoy but haven’t done much of in many years.

I have thought about it. Not sure I would need it. If I do, would that say more about me than him? The R in relationship should be dead at that point. I feel screwed up enough as it is. (Did contact a PI to see if cell phone tracking could corroborate the timeline—haven’t heard back yet…same as polygraph, probably.) Will discuss at next IC. Separation was recommended at IC today, so I feel good that I came to that conclusion myself and initiated it.


----------



## Diana7

Woundidwife said:


> I want some time to think on my own without any input from WH. Going to spend time with people who appreciate me and do things that I enjoy but haven’t done much of in many years.
> 
> I have thought about it. Not sure I would need it. If I do, would that say more about me than him? The R in relationship should be dead at that point. I feel screwed up enough as it is. (Did contact a PI to see if cell phone tracking could corroborate the timeline—haven’t heard back yet…same as polygraph, probably.) Will discuss at next IC. Separation was recommended at IC today, so I feel good that I came to that conclusion myself and initiated it.


I would definitely request a lie detector test in your place. It would enable me to know if it was a once off or not. If its happened once it may have happened before plus it would enable you to know if he has told the truth about that night. 
Once the trust has been shattered, verification is wise. 
More info may come out before he even has the test if you make it clear that if the test shows he has been lying the marriage is over. How can you make any decisions about the future until you know the full truth?


----------



## Not

snowbum said:


> What do you mean by that? He’s being watched? He’s going to resent that kind of treatment.


Staying with family, which is probably the only option he has and makes sense, shouldn't be a problem for him.


----------



## snowbum

Family wasn’t srated, some people don’t have family


----------



## Not

snowbum said:


> Family wasn’t srated, some people don’t have family


Nothing was stated because privacy, so you go with what makes sense.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> I want some time to think on my own without any input from WH. Going to spend time with people who appreciate me and do things that I enjoy but haven’t done much of in many years.
> 
> I have thought about it. Not sure I would need it. If I do, would that say more about me than him? The R in relationship should be dead at that point. I feel screwed up enough as it is. (Did contact a PI to see if cell phone tracking could corroborate the timeline—haven’t heard back yet…same as polygraph, probably.) Will discuss at next IC. Separation was recommended at IC today, so I feel good that I came to that conclusion myself and initiated it.


Getting some space to think without the constant triggers of being around him physically is completely understandable and a good thing. I hope it is a positive and productive time for you that will help you on your quest for clarity.

As to the poly, I want to try and reframe that discussion. Polys are used for the same reason, to get more clarity. To verify claims and, many times, learn more about events than you did before, i.e., "Was this the only time you had sexual relations (pre-defined) with someone other than your wife during marriage Y/N?"

*"If I do, would that say more about me than him? The R in relationship should be dead at that point." *

This confuses me. How would a poly say anything different about *you*, one way or the other, than, say, seperation? All it says about you is that you are on a quest for truth and clarity from your spouse who has shattered your trust and whose basis of truth is massively compromised. That, if you do consider R, you need to know, to the best of your ability, just *who* you are considering reconciling with? This is not specific to you, this is why many Betrayeds use that tool. It is for *them* and truly remorseful CSs understand and respect that. The R would *not* be dead *because* of a poly IMO, R would be made possible, in part, because of a passed poly.

*"I feel screwed up enough as it is."*

I know you do. I understand all too well that feeling, as do all of the Betrayeds on this thread. It is gutting, confusing and exhausting and it doesnt go away for a long time. Maybe keep the poly question open until youve had some time apart to think and reflect.

One day at a time.


----------



## Woundidwife

Yes. One day at a time…just trying to breathe again.


----------



## Woundidwife

Having a tough time. Still pretty angry sometimes and maybe even developing a sense of numbness towards everything. I am not sure if I am actually dealing with any of this or just putting it in a box to deal with later. 

How do you know if you are making progress on yourself?


----------



## *Deidre*

Woundidwife said:


> How/where do I find these stories? There really haven’t been any consequences for him. I have basically shut down. I think I am in the “depression” portion of the acceptance process now. I am a fixer, too, and a nurturer, so I find myself comforting him!!! (To his credit, he tells me not to worry about his feelings—his do not matter now…only mine.)
> 
> He has now read the book (we both have) and was already doing basically everything in it to help me heal, by his own instincts, before he even read it. He does care, but it is so hard to believe that he loves me or ever did.
> 
> Reality is hitting me HARD. How little he cared for me to be able to do this. How selfish he is and has been for most of our marriage.
> 
> I am just so, so, horribly, horribly sad.
> 
> I am certain I will never be able to forget, and I do NOT think I will EVER be able to forgive this. I am not sure what that means for me moving forward.


When the sadness becomes worse than the thought of the unknown, you’ll leave. And, not a moment sooner. Everyone’s rock bottom is different, but I think you’re getting there. Don’t let someone devalue you.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> Having a tough time. Still pretty angry sometimes and maybe even developing a sense of numbness towards everything. I am not sure if I am actually dealing with any of this or just putting it in a box to deal with later.
> 
> How do you know if you are making progress on yourself?


I don’t think it’s about “progress”. In my opinion you have the time to hear your own thoughts now, feel your own emotions without the other person influencing that. You’re trying to gain the ability to think clearly and get some perspective. 

What did your counselor say? Usually they give you some things to think about, something to read up on, or something to work on.


----------



## lifeistooshort

This is a process and your feelings are normal.

Separation is the only way to go. Any reconciliation with your hb gaslighting, pressuring, and bullshitting you will not be healthy.

You deciding on your own that you don't need him but he's a good candidate for reconciliation could be healthy. Assuming of course you ultimately want him back.

That's the position of strength you need to be in.


----------



## Woundidwife

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t think it’s about “progress”. In my opinion you have the time to hear your own thoughts now, feel your own emotions without the other person influencing that. You’re trying to gain the ability to think clearly and get some perspective.
> 
> What did your counselor say? Usually they give you some things to think about, something to read up on, or something to work on.


My counselor told me to do the things that I used to do and should still enjoy, with my people…(close family and friends). Take time to get back to the core of who I really am and to try to avoid triggers…I do try, but they are literally F***ing EVERYWHERE!

I believe I still love him and always will, but I just don’t know if I can survive this. He treats me better now than he ever really did, but I almost feel like it is too little, too late. I am the same f***ing person as I was before his ONS, but NOW he wants to have a wonderful marriage? When at the same time I am questioning whether we SHOILD even be together? Is that what I really want? I don’t know, but I am not sure I can accept this shyte sandwich. I REALLY don’t think I can forgive this. It is too big, too much of an ask, and I really CANNOT see a way to reassemble my heart. How can you even possibly R with someone who has INTENTIONALLY crushed your soul? I keep trying, but I am really having a hard time even envisioning that. Even as co-dependent as I have become, I just cannot imagine trusting my WH with my heart again.

I also think he forgot who I am. By confessing, I think he had way too much confidence in me eventually forgiving him than I believe I am truly capable of…He forgot that I am one very jealous b****, and GIVING AWAY what was MINE is just not acceptable to me. Period. I respected our vows and expected the same from him. 

I am just so, so crushed.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> My counselor told me to do the things that I used to do and should still enjoy, with my people…(close family and friends). Take time to get back to the core of who I really am and to try to avoid triggers…I do try, but they are literally F***ing EVERYWHERE!
> 
> I believe I still love him and always will, but I just don’t know if I can survive this. He treats me better now than he ever really did, but I almost feel like it is too little, too late. I am the same f***ing person as I was before his ONS, but NOW he wants to have a wonderful marriage? When at the same time I am questioning whether we SHOILD even be together? Is that what I really want? I don’t know, but I am not sure I can accept this shyte sandwich. I REALLY don’t think I can forgive this. It is too big, too much of an ask, and I really CANNOT see a way to reassemble my heart. How can you even possibly R with someone who has INTENTIONALLY crushed your soul? I keep trying, but I am really having a hard time even envisioning that. Even as co-dependent as I have become, I just cannot imagine trusting my WH with my heart again.
> 
> I am just so, so crushed.


I understand. Fully. Those are valid and reasonable concerns. I think it a rare person that can ever get through that and accept that level of risk with a person who has betrayed them before. But this is only something you can answer, and you really have to strip away the pain and fear to listen to what you know is right for you. It’s not easy to do, especially as a codependent person. I also understand this difficulty. 

It sounds as though your counselor wants you to experience your life in a more authentic way, and not wrapped around your husband. It would make sense if they also believe you to be codependent. Regardless of what you choose to do, that seems like something you really need to resolve in order to move forward from a place of strength. 

It would be strange if you weren’t crushed. You are a person that loved deeply and fully, and that is a beautiful thing. Unfortunately, your husband took that for granted and betrayed you. But that doesn’t take away the value of what you gave, it just makes him an idiot. And yes it‘s agonizing when that love is abused and broken. I’m sorry for that.


----------



## Megaforce

Very tough decision. So, take a good long time. Hard to really know one's capabilities re continuing in a marriage after cheating was infused. For me, things like betrayal and being taken advantage of, humiliated, devalued etc. were just too much for me to ever get over. After a while, I just knew the anger and resentment, while subsiding to an extent, would always be beneath the surface. And, normally, I am not a big time grudge holder and am pretty forgiving. 
I cannot exactly put my finger on why this particular offense occupies a position that is, to me, unforgivable. I expect it has something to do with my own insecurities stemming from some childhood abuse.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Woundidwife said:


> My counselor told me to do the things that I used to do and should still enjoy, with my people…(close family and friends). Take time to get back to the core of who I really am and to try to avoid triggers…I do try, but they are literally F***ing EVERYWHERE!
> 
> I believe I still love him and always will, but I just don’t know if I can survive this. He treats me better now than he ever really did, but I almost feel like it is too little, too late. I am the same f***ing person as I was before his ONS, but NOW he wants to have a wonderful marriage? When at the same time I am questioning whether we SHOILD even be together? Is that what I really want? I don’t know, but I am not sure I can accept this shyte sandwich. I REALLY don’t think I can forgive this. It is too big, too much of an ask, and I really CANNOT see a way to reassemble my heart. How can you even possibly R with someone who has INTENTIONALLY crushed your soul? I keep trying, but I am really having a hard time even envisioning that. Even as co-dependent as I have become, I just cannot imagine trusting my WH with my heart again.
> 
> I also think he forgot who I am. By confessing, I think he had way too much confidence in me eventually forgiving him than I believe I am truly capable of…He forgot that I am one very jealous b****, and GIVING AWAY what was MINE is just not acceptable to me. Period. I respected our vows and expected the same from him.
> 
> I am just so, so crushed.


For some of us it is just a hill too far....
I could forgive my wife someday but my marriage would not survive. 

I am a romantic and believe in "the one", if she cheated on me, it would verify to me I chose wrongly and she is NOT "the one". It would also Biblically free me from the marriage to go search for "the one". 

Luckily, we are opposite sex twins in our connection and moral beliefs. We find adultry so morally reprehensible


----------



## frenchpaddy

Woundidwife said:


> He didn’t approach her. She sat next to him. Very closely, and then chipped away at what little defense he apparently had. He has defense now: That’s the same thing MY WIFE says. That and knowing he will LOSE EVERYTHING if this ever happens again…assuming I CAN forgive him and continue the relationship.
> 
> He has already agreed never to go to a bar again, will only drink at home (I will amend that to only IN MY PRESENCE), and not talk to any other women ever or even allowing “friendly” hugs ever. (I was already a jealous person, so this has me at the limits of insanity!) Obviously, his brain is too small to go out unsupervised.


 The first thing that hit me is that it was so easy to have him let down the phone and go drinking because he thought you had been drinking , and then take the car after drinking to drive to the pub , 

and he is so nice and that bad woman forced him to bang her , but after all the drink he is saying he had he was still able get it up , 

how bad were things before he left to go to that pub , 
it was in no way a bed of rose before


----------



## snowbum

The fact ge banged someone when you weren’t fighting is a huge red flag he wanted to do this. He made an excuse


----------



## Megaforce

snowbum said:


> The fact ge banged someone when you weren’t fighting is a huge red flag he wanted to do this. He made an excuse


Just speculating on my part. But, I would be very surprised if this was not planned. Just seems implausible that he got so pissed just believing you had been drinking. Apparently, based on the fact that he, himself, started drinking that night( allegedly, I guess , out of spite or some other weird thought process???), he does not find drinking all that objectionable.
And, even if he did( again seems absurd based on his own imbibing), would that be enough to piss anyone off to the extent that he would drive drunk and start buying drinks for some rando? Simply unbelievable, especially if as you say he had always been stable/ normal.
Then, he claims he had no idea that buying some woman drinks could be taken as an advance/ overture? He has normal intelligence, I presume. Lived in society for 40 plus years, right? This is patently absurd.
Just happens to know a secluded spot for consumation? Just entered his mind, while intoxicated ( not enough to hamper performance, however).
In my former line of work, I could sniff out ******** reasonably well. Others on this site have, as well.
IMO, you are being lied to, big time.


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> I do not believe there is any more to the story. He has not changed anything from day one. Realizing EXACTLY WHICH day it was has hurt me more, but he DID keep telling me that he didn’t remember (specific things that cell records indicated what) happened on the day that I believed. It does still make him a d***head, however, and he still didn’t even give me a thought to be able to give himself permission to have a ONS in the first place. Obviously, he has some issues to resolve in IC. I have my own appointment this evening and he has just left to begin an informal separation.
> 
> I do still love him. I have seen him returning to man I married years ago. I do believe I will miss him while we are separated, but will make plans to keep myself busy and remember who I was before all of this and before becoming stifled myself.


You realize that anyone with half a brain would have zero trouble consistently repeating this same, simple, yet implausible story. The fact that the story has not changed is meaningless in determining whether it is true. For God's sake it contains very few details and would be simple to stick to with no deviation.


----------



## oldshirt

Woundidwife said:


> Private, personal details about my WH while drunk had me questioning all of this from the very beginning. Stopping in mid-act is the most realistic thing of all the details I have been provided, though it would be debatable that his conscience was the determining factor—as I wish but cannot prove it was.
> 
> How would I go about doing a polygraph?


All this discussion about him stopping in the middle of it reminds me of that scene in the first “Hangiver” movie where the guys are giving Stu a bad time about his cheater wife and reference the cruise where she screwed the bell hop. 

Stu defends her by saying she did not screw the bell hop, she screwed the bartender and more importantly he did not cum inside her.


----------



## DosEquis

WW, I stepped away from your thread for a bit and checked back in to see how you are doing. You are clearly still in the agonizing throws of his betrayal. Ill say it again to you, I am so sorry.

Of everything youve posted recently (all of which tightens my guts to read and gives me flashbacks btw), there is one thing that stood out to me like a neon sign and it was a self aware comment you made about your own make up that may hold the key to your way forward.

You said:

_"I also think he forgot who I am. By confessing, I think he had way too much confidence in me eventually forgiving him than I believe I am truly capable of…*He forgot that I am one very jealous b****, and GIVING AWAY what was MINE is just not acceptable to me. Period.* I respected our vows and expected the same from him.

I am just so, so crushed."_

This transparent comment reminds me of WWTL who said that he was the worse kind of person to cheat on, even though his CW was clearly remorseful, because he had always dealt with those who had done him wrong by cutting them out of his life. They were persona non grata from that day forward. He said that this trait in himslf, for better or worse, was something that he finally *had *to reckon with. His sense of justice, competativeness, and possessiveness in dealing with a betrayer as he always had, won out. He D'd his remorseful CW after 5 years of wrestling with himself. Thus his screen name.

I encourage you to explore the paragraph you wrote in detail with your therapist. I think it may well be the lynchpin to forward progress in your life...with or without him as your husband. The traits you describe are what make you, *YOU. *They are part of the warp and woof of the fabric of your life and you cannot long live (well) in conflict with your core person.

Strength, healing and clarity to you WW.


----------



## Megaforce

DosEquis said:


> I stepped away from your thread for a bit and checked back in to see how you are doing. You are clearly still in the agonizing throws of his betrayal. Ill say it again to you, I am so sorry.
> 
> Of everything youve posted recently (all of which tightens my guts to read and gives me flashbacks btw), there is one thing that stood out to me like a neon sign and it was a self aware comment you made about your own make up that may hold the key to your way forward.
> 
> You said:
> 
> _"I also think he forgot who I am. By confessing, I think he had way too much confidence in me eventually forgiving him than I believe I am truly capable of…*He forgot that I am one very jealous b****, and GIVING AWAY what was MINE is just not acceptable to me. Period.* I respected our vows and expected the same from him.
> 
> I am just so, so crushed."_
> 
> This extremely self aware comment reminds me of WWTL who said that he was the worse kind of person to cheat on, even though his CW was clearly remorseful, because he had always dealt with those who had done him wrong by cutting them out of his life. They were persona non grata from that day forward. He said that this trait in himslf, for better or worse, was something that he finally *had *to reckon with. His sense of justice, competativeness, and possessiveness in dealing with a betrayer as he always had, won out. He D'd his remorseful CW.after 5 years of wrestling with himself. Thýus his screen name.
> 
> I encourage you to explore the paragraph you wrote in detail with your therapist. I think it may well be the lynchpin to forward progress in your life...with or without him as your husband. The traits you describe are what make you, *YOU. *They are part of the warp and woof of the fabric of your life and you cannot long live (well) in conflict with your core person.
> 
> Strength, healing and clarity to you WW.


I agree, that it is absolutely essential to figure out if you are capable of reconciliation knowing your tolerance for betrayal. Took me a couple months and talks with another betrayed guy to realize I could not do it. This guy I talked to said he knew he would no longer be able to treat his wife's a wife should be treated. He did not want to be that person.
Sometimes it takes a while to figure this out, but it was not close to 5 years for me.


----------



## Woundidwife

snowbum said:


> The fact ge banged someone when you weren’t fighting is a huge red flag he wanted to do this. He made an excuse


Agreed and it continues with him still sideways blaming me. He “didn’t feel that I loved him” anymore.


----------



## snowbum

Woundidwife said:


> Agreed and it continues with him still sideways blaming me. He “didn’t feel that I loved him” anymore.


That’s blameshifting


----------



## snowbum

snowbum said:


> That’s blameshifting


Sign he’s not remorseful. Suddenly you’re the cause


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> WW, I stepped away from your thread for a bit and checked back in to see how you are doing. You are clearly still in the agonizing throws of his betrayal. Ill say it again to you, I am so sorry.
> 
> Of everything youve posted recently (all of which tightens my guts to read and gives me flashbacks btw), there is one thing that stood out to me like a neon sign and it was a self aware comment you made about your own make up that may hold the key to your way forward.
> 
> You said:
> 
> _"I also think he forgot who I am. By confessing, I think he had way too much confidence in me eventually forgiving him than I believe I am truly capable of…*He forgot that I am one very jealous b****, and GIVING AWAY what was MINE is just not acceptable to me. Period.* I respected our vows and expected the same from him.
> 
> I am just so, so crushed."_
> 
> This transparent comment reminds me of WWTL who said that he was the worse kind of person to cheat on, even though his CW was clearly remorseful, because he had always dealt with those who had done him wrong by cutting them out of his life. They were persona non grata from that day forward. He said that this trait in himslf, for better or worse, was something that he finally *had *to reckon with. His sense of justice, competativeness, and possessiveness in dealing with a betrayer as he always had, won out. He D'd his remorseful CW after 5 years of wrestling with himself. Thus his screen name.
> 
> I encourage you to explore the paragraph you wrote in detail with your therapist. I think it may well be the lynchpin to forward progress in your life...with or without him as your husband. The traits you describe are what make you, *YOU. *They are part of the warp and woof of the fabric of your life and you cannot long live (well) in conflict with your core person.
> 
> Strength, healing and clarity to you WW.


Thank you. I am so sorry to be giving you flashbacks. This is awful. I am still in a PTSD state, I believe. A month and a half after D-day and I STILL have diarrhea, insomnia (without zquill, melatonin, or other such help—and waking constantly/not feeling rested even if I do sleep.), racing heart and the return of pains that have not plagued me since before my first heart surgery (both of which my surgeon would highly disapprove…He once told me to remove all stress from my life. I told him my only stress is when I argue with my husband. He asked how often that happened, to which I answered “all the time”. Without even cracking a smile, my heart surgeon then told me to get a new husband.)

The brief “separation” is almost over. We were in constant contact. Texts, calls. Every 3rd or 4th interaction resulted in the racing heart. Counselor recommends 2-3 month minimum separation for the relationship to even have a fighting chance. Just like everyone here recommended: we both need to work on ourselves separately BEFORE trying to fix anything remotely dealing with the relationship. Of course, this is not what he wants. He still believes he can help heal me. I feel that this will continue to stifle me and not allow me to make my own decisions.

I don't know if I love him the same/enough anymore. Definitely not "in love" with him now, (I am just starting to realize. 😔), and this is his own doing. The bed he made (or backseat as it were).

He is so attached and “in love” with me now, but I am very far removed from that. We would be starting at ZERO, which I could just as easily (or more easily?) do with someone else who has never betrayed me. Zero is still zero.

I feel like this whole experience is changing me into a person that I really do not want to become.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Agreed and it continues with him still sideways blaming me. He “didn’t feel that I loved him” anymore.


Oh He!! No. Marriage is 50/50, cheating is 110% him. 

How old is this guy?


----------



## snowbum

He’s controlling you. This is not good that he can’t honor your separation.


----------



## TexasMom1216

snowbum said:


> He’s controlling you. This is not good that he can’t honor your separation.


But not surprising. Please, please be safe.


----------



## Rus47

Woundidwife said:


> We would be starting at ZERO, which I could just as easily (or more easily?) do with someone else who has never betrayed me. Zero is still zero.


Seems you are coming to a logical and considered conclusion. As well to build a new house as to try rebuilding one half destroyed by termites. You will never be really sure that all of the termites are gone.

At least building something new, the bad memories of the termite infested old one can be left behind.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Oh He!! No. Marriage is 50/50, cheating is 110% him.
> 
> How old is this guy?


47


----------



## QuietRiot

Are you paying attention here? 

Constant contact even though you requested space and even when it brings you pain = him behaving selfishly because he is more concerned about his discomfort than yours. Lack of respect for your boundaries. 

Telling you that he did this because of how you made him feel = lack of responsibility for his actions and decisions. No accountability. 

Him saying he needs to help you heal from the wound he purposefully inflicted = entitlement and extremely arrogant and self important to assume he knows better than you in what you need and that he has the power to fix you. (Yet what’s he doing to fix himself?)

All of these words and actions are telling you things about him if you pay close attention. When you look at them from afar, all his attitudes and behaviors point to one thing, he doesn’t much care for you and your needs; he cares to control the outcome to what he wants. 

If you were going to have any chance at real reconciliation, he would respect your needs and the separation and only contact you when you request. He would work on HIMSELF and be less concerned about trying to fix YOU. He would never try to talk you into reconciling and what he thinks is right because he’d never feel entitled to tell you what to do. And he would support you in every way if you wanted to leave him. He would understand and deal with the repercussions of his actions. 

You do not have reconciliation material. You have a confetti covered turd.


----------



## Openminded

He’s a very controlling man.


----------



## TexasMom1216

QuietRiot said:


> Are you paying attention here?
> 
> Constant contact even though you requested space and even when it brings you pain = him behaving selfishly because he is more concerned about his discomfort than yours. Lack of respect for your boundaries.
> 
> Telling you that he did this because of how you made him feel = lack of responsibility for his actions and decisions. No accountability.
> 
> Him saying he needs to help you heal from the wound he purposefully inflicted = entitlement and extremely arrogant and self important to assume he knows better than you in what you need and that he has the power to fix you. (Yet what’s he doing to fix himself?)
> 
> All of these words and actions are telling you things about him if you pay close attention. When you look at them from afar, all his attitudes and behaviors point to one thing, he doesn’t much care for you and your needs; he cares to control the outcome to what he wants.
> 
> If you were going to have any chance at real reconciliation, he would respect your needs and the separation and only contact you when you request. He would work on HIMSELF and be less concerned about trying to fix YOU. He would never try to talk you into reconciling and what he thinks is right because he’d never feel entitled to tell you what to do. And he would support you in every way if you wanted to leave him. He would understand and deal with the repercussions of his actions.
> 
> You do not have reconciliation material. You have a confetti covered turd.


Zero remorse. He feels exactly ZERO remorse for what he's done. ZERO.


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## snowbum

He wants you to shut up and let him do what he wants. This has nothing to do with live. He’s not living his cushy life and I bet he’s pissed. His nice guy face will not last.


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## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you. I am so sorry to be giving you flashbacks. This is awful. I am still in a PTSD state, I believe. A month and a half after D-day and I STILL have diarrhea, insomnia (without zquill, melatonin, or other such help—and waking constantly/not feeling rested even if I do sleep.), racing heart and the return of pains that have not plagued me since before my first heart surgery (both of which my surgeon would highly disapprove…He once told me to remove all stress from my life. I told him my only stress is when I argue with my husband. He asked how often that happened, to which I answered “all the time”. Without even cracking a smile, my heart surgeon then told me to get a new husband.)
> 
> The brief “separation” is almost over. We were in constant contact. Texts, calls. Every 3rd or 4th interaction resulted in the racing heart. Counselor recommends 2-3 month minimum separation for the relationship to even have a fighting chance. Just like everyone here recommended: we both need to work on ourselves separately BEFORE trying to fix anything remotely dealing with the relationship. Of course, this is not what he wants. He still believes he can help heal me. I feel that this will continue to stifle me and not allow me to make my own decisions.
> 
> I don't know if I love him the same/enough anymore. Definitely not "in love" with him now, (I am just starting to realize. 😔), and this is his own doing. The bed he made (or backseat as it were).
> 
> He is so attached and “in love” with me now, but I am very far removed from that. We would be starting at ZERO, which I could just as easily (or more easily?) do with someone else who has never betrayed me. Zero is still zero.
> 
> I feel like this whole experience is changing me into a person that I really do not want to become.


I looked back at your first post and you are still just weeks out from your Dday. We all process severe trauma in our own way and at our own pace. Weeks are nothing. May as well have happened yesterday. You are still in shock.

What was revealed to you, what you are going through *is* sickening. It sickens the mind, the soul and the body. Your heart condition is concerning. His proximity to you is very triggering and will continue. Putting distance between you in the form of a seperation will do you good. He needs it too, though he doesnt know it or understand it.

The blaming he is doing is proof positive that he is far far from where he needs to be for you to be able to consider the possibility of R and he doesnt get it. He needs to be asking you what *he* should be doing to help, not telling you what you should be doing and what you need to heal. Again, he doesnt get it. Hes blind deaf and dumb to his own issues and the destruction he has wrought. Will realization *ever* dawn on him? No telling, but if your current state is not a wake up call to him, chances are this is as far as he'll progress.

I hate to be pessemistic about his prospects but based on your description here, I believe its realistic.

Start wiith the seperation, go light contact, and work your way out from there. You need the time and the space if for nothing else, the sheer stress to bleed off of you.

As to thoughts of love and whether youll ever be "in love" with him again, that is, for now, a far shore. I encourage you to focus on what is right in front of you, i.e. eating right, staying hydrated, exercise, time with family and friends, and of course, quality therapy.

Keep processing and moving forward.

You can do this.


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## Jimi007

It seems like you separated , but did not go no contact. What was the point of the separation ? Did your IC suggest this approach ?


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## Woundidwife

No one suggested it. It was a pre-scheduled event that just played out as it was originally intended. It was a good way to be physically apart and an easier sell to controlling WH than “separation”. I was hoping it would be an introductory period that could then become a true separation. That isn’t what happened, though.

IC strongly suggests separation now for MY well being, at least, and will do so at MC this week coming. I have already informed WH many times that this is WHAT I NEED, but that has not happened, and obviously, my submissive, co-dependent conditioning has not allowed me to assert myself well enough to make separation happen yet. 

Yesterday was a long evening of angry (my anger) calls and texts because he will not accept/cannot understand my need to be apart. Everything HE has read (including the book that was mentioned on here) suggests the BETRAYER become the REBUILDER/HEALER which is what HE wants, so he is referencing all materials which support that.

IC has told me that I need to learn to be independent again to heal myself. I believe this wholeheartedly. I really cannot do that with him there. 

I am certain his fear is that I will learn (or decide) that I am better off without him—which, I guess, is fair, as a real possibility.


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## BigDaddyNY

Woundidwife said:


> No one suggested it. It was a pre-scheduled event that just played out as it was originally intended. It was a good way to be physically apart and an easier sell to controlling WH than “separation”. I was hoping it would be an introductory period that could then become a true separation. That isn’t what happened, though.
> 
> IC strongly suggests separation now for MY well being, at least, and will do so at MC this week coming. I have already informed WH many times that this is WHAT I NEED, but that has not happened, and obviously, my submissive, co-dependent conditioning has not allowed me to assert myself well enough to make separation happen yet.
> 
> Yesterday was a long evening of angry (my anger) calls and texts because he will not accept/cannot understand my need to be apart. Everything HE has read (including the book that was mentioned on here) suggests the BETRAYER become the REBUILDER/HEALER which is what HE wants, so he is referencing all materials which support that.
> 
> IC has told me that I need to learn to be independent again to heal myself. I believe this wholeheartedly. I really cannot do that with him there.
> 
> I am certain his fear is that I will learn (or decide) that I am better off without him—which, I guess, is fair, as a real possibility.


Any thoughts on discussing boundaries during this separation? Things like rules for contact, or no contact. I would also make it clear that there is to be no seeing of other people during separation.

Even though I do think separation is right in this case, keep in mind that separation is a segue into divorce more often than not.


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## Openminded

He apparently never expected you to seriously struggle with this.


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## Openminded

How long has it been since you were independent?


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## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> No one suggested it. It was a pre-scheduled event that just played out as it was originally intended. It was a good way to be physically apart and an easier sell to controlling WH than “separation”. I was hoping it would be an introductory period that could then become a true separation. That isn’t what happened, though.
> 
> IC strongly suggests separation now for MY well being, at least, and will do so at MC this week coming. I have already informed WH many times that this is WHAT I NEED, but that has not happened, and obviously, my submissive, co-dependent conditioning has not allowed me to assert myself well enough to make separation happen yet.
> 
> Yesterday was a long evening of angry (my anger) calls and texts because he will not accept/cannot understand my need to be apart. Everything HE has read (including the book that was mentioned on here) suggests the BETRAYER become the REBUILDER/HEALER which is what HE wants, so he is referencing all materials which support that.
> 
> IC has told me that I need to learn to be independent again to heal myself. I believe this wholeheartedly. I really cannot do that with him there.
> 
> I am certain his fear is that I will learn (or decide) that I am better off without him—which, I guess, is fair, as a real possibility.


More great self aware transparency from you here:

*"obviously, my submissive, co-dependent conditioning has not allowed me to assert myself well enough to make separation happen yet."*

Great insight and this will have to be wrestled to the ground in order for you to do what needs to be done. Co-dependency is insidious because it is not overtly as nasty as some other toxic traits but, boy oh boy, can it be self destructive. This is probably part of the reason you therapist wants you to seperate and operation under your own steam for a while and be able to focus on your healing. The other dynamic here may be that you CH *knows *that this is the ***** in your armor and is exploiting it.

Im going to be a bit assertive here and suggest to you that you dont float the idea of seperation or suggest it.....you *seperate, *as in, "I am seperating from you for 2 months minimum." Its the same as divorce. I hear people say, "Im going to request a divorce." You dont request a divorce. You *divorce*.

All that to say, I affirm you seperating from your husband for a minimum period of time with limited contact which is clearly defined (bounderies).

*"Everything HE has read (including the book that was mentioned on here) suggests the BETRAYER become the REBUILDER/HEALER which is what HE wants, so he is referencing all materials which support that."*

Wow. Again, *bounderies*. My hope is that youll gather the fortitude to let him know clearly that he does not get to pick and choose the resources needed for your healing. Has he read "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair"?

Seperate for a minimum period of time. You can do this.


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## Diana7

In your place I would simply say "I am going to separate from you for 2/3/4 months (whatever length you decide) and each time you contact me the term will be reset". In other words, if he knows that if he continues to bombard you with calls/texts the time will get longer and longer he will stop. You must mean it though and block his number. Dont reply to him under any circumstances. Only then will he stop this awful manipulation. By not leaving you alone he isn't letting you make your own decision. He wants things done HIS way and it's not his decision to make. To be honest he is acting very badly.


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## snowbum

He’s sucking you in. If you don’t separate he will feel entitled to do this in the future. Ic he dictates terms to you he won


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## Woundidwife

Openminded said:


> How long has it been since you were independent?



Never. I married and left home at 18. The summer between high school and college. Started college, worked 32 hours a week, night shift. Never looked back. Never had the college or party experience, but I was never into that anyway. I was “parentized” at a young age. My parents worked odd shifts. Beginning around age 10, I cooked meals and made sure my younger siblings got up in time for school, ate breakfast, had good hygiene, and didn’t miss the school bus on a daily basis.

So the answer is that I was never really a kid, and I was never really independent. (HOWEVER, I WAS the PERFECT WIFE, or at least I was before this and could have been to someone who appreciated me.) But here I am. Gonna try to figure my shyte out.


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## Diana7

Stop enabling his controlling behavior.


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## TexasMom1216

Woundidwife said:


> So the answer is that I was never really a kid and I never really was independent. But here I am.


It's not as hard as people would have you believe. You're already doing all the things that are necessary to be independent, you're just clearing each and every little thing with someone else first. You're able to make the decisions your husband makes, and you're able to handle all the responsibility he handles. You are perfectly capable of standing on your own, and I can promise you this without reservation: Once you learn that you can stand on your own two feet, you will NEVER again let someone else push you around. It will give you the self confidence to demand equal footing and you will never ever let this submissive garbage happen to you again. You will choose people to be in your life because you WANT them and because they make your life better, not because you're afraid. That person will love and respect you, and treasure who you are, not just what you can do for him. You are the star of your movie, and once you stand on your own two feet you will never, ever be a faceless extra in the movie of your own life again. I know this is so so hard, I can imagine the pain and humiliation you're feeling, and the struggle to stand firm. Real bravery is courage in the face of fear. You can do this.


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## Woundidwife

Openminded said:


> He apparently never expected you to seriously struggle with this.


I think you are right.


----------



## Woundidwife

BigDaddyNY said:


> Any thoughts on discussing boundaries during this separation? Things like rules for contact, or no contact. I would also make it clear that there is to be no seeing of other people during separation.
> 
> Even though I do think separation is right in this case, keep in mind that separation is a segue into divorce more often than not.


Not sure what all the boundaries should even be. I haven’t researched any of that—was hoping the MC (same person doing both ICs) would be able to make suggestions, as this is the area of expertise.


----------



## Woundidwife

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's not as hard as people would have you believe. You're already doing all the things that are necessary to be independent, you're just clearing each and every little thing with someone else first. You're able to make the decisions your husband makes, and you're able to handle all the responsibility he handles. You are perfectly capable of standing on your own, and I can promise you this without reservation: Once you learn that you can stand on your own two feet, you will NEVER again let someone else push you around. It will give you the self confidence to demand equal footing and you will never ever let this submissive garbage happen to you again. You will choose people to be in your life because you WANT them and because they make your life better, not because you're afraid. That person will love and respect you, and treasure who you are, not just what you can do for him. You are the star of your movie, and once you stand on your own two feet you will never, ever be a faceless extra in the movie of your own life again. I know this is so so hard, I can imagine the pain and humiliation you're feeling, and the struggle to stand firm. Real bravery is courage in the face of fear. You can do this.


Thank you. I AM trying.


----------



## DosEquis

WW, I want to share the story of a good friend that may be apropos.

Like you, he was in a long term marriage, in their 50s with grown kids out of the house. Like you, he and his wife were both professionals. Both traveled for work from time to time. Like you, his wife admitted her ONS on a business trip after having one too many. Like you, the revelation sent him into a *massive* tailspin.

His CW was full of regret. Begged to stay together. Laid out *her* plan for their R.

Like you, he told her he needed time and distance to figure himself out. She attempted to love and sex bomb him. He would not participate and held firm that he needed time apart to start to heal and get clarity.

When the hurricane of his emotions calmed from a cat 5 to a cat 1, he started to get perspective. He ended up divorcing her. To her credit, she did what many talk about, IC, timeline, accountability, std test, etc but it was not enough for him as the relationship was never the same.

I asked him what the deciding factor was and he put it this way to me (not exact but paraphrased), "DE, when I met my CW, *I* *chose* to date her and she reciprocated. When we progressed in our relationship, *I chose* to propose marriage to her and she chose to accept my proposal. When we got married,* I chose *to vow my marital fidelity to her at the altar, sealed with the exchange of rings and she chose to do the same. When she broke her vow to me and subsequently begged to reconcile, I was, in essence, forced into a choice not of my making. Put another way. I was being asked to choose someone who was, in great measure, a stranger to me. A stranger I happened to know a lot about. *I decided to refuse that choice through divorce."*

She was broken hearted and threw emotional fits at him but his mind was made up. He regained the power to choose for himself what he believed was best for him. He went on to tell me that he did not close the door on choosing her again sometime in the future but chose to keep his options open for the time being.

He is now dating a lovely woman, every bit his equal and they seem to be very happy together. His relationship with the kids is strong and they love his new SO.

His ex is doing ok. Shes deeply regretful, ashamed and seems very sad most of the time. She too has dated (heard through the grapevine), but nothing serious has developed. I think she pines for him and knows she took him for granted. Its a huge loss to her imo. He is a prince of a guy. Not flashy, but true blue, loyal, loving, faithful, & hard working.

Hope that helps.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you. I AM trying.


You’re doing great. Stand firm.


----------



## DosEquis

Sorry, double posted.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> WW, I want to share the story of a good friend that may be apropos.
> 
> Like you, he was in a long term marriage, in their 50s with grown kids out of the house. Like you, he and his wife were both professionals. Both traveled for work from time to time. Like you, his wife admitted her ONS on a business trip after having one too many. Like you, the revelation sent him into a *massive* tailspin.
> 
> His CW was full of regret. Begged to stay together. Laid out *her* plan for their R.
> 
> Like you, he told her he needed time and distance to figure himself out. She attempted to love and sex bomb him. He would not participate and held firm that he needed time apart to start to heal and get clarity.
> 
> When the hurricane of his emotions calmed from a cat 5 to a cat 1, he started to get perspective. He ended up divorcing her. To her credit, she did what many talk about, IC, timeline, accountability, std test, etc but it was not enough for him as the relationship was never the same.
> 
> I asked him what the deciding factor was and he put it this way to me (not exact but paraphrased), "DE, when I met my CW, *I* *chose* to date her and she reciprocated. When we progressed in our relationship, *I chose* to propose marriage to her and she chose to accept my proposal. When we got married,* I chose *to vow my marital fidelity to her at the altar, sealed with the exchange of rings and she chose to do the same. When she broke her vow to me and subsequently begged to reconcile, I was, in essence, forced into a choice not of my making. Put another way. I was being asked to choose someone who was, in great measure, a stranger to me. A stranger I happened to know a lot about. *I decided to refuse that choice through divorce."*
> 
> She was broken hearted and threw emotional fits at him but his mind was made up. He regained the power to choose for himself what he believed was best for him. He went on to tell me that he did not close the door on choosing her again sometime in the future but chose to keep his options open for the time being.
> 
> He is now dating a lovely woman, every bit his equal and they seem to be very happy together. His relationship with the kids is strong and they love his new SO.
> 
> His ex is doing ok. Shes deeply regretful, ashamed and seems very sad most of the time. She too has dated (heard through the grapevine), but nothing serious has developed. I think she pines for him and knows she took him for granted. Its a huge loss to her imo. He is a prince of a guy. Not flashy, but true blue, loyal, loving, faithful, & hard working.
> 
> Hope that helps.


That story makes a lot of sense to me. I was actually thinking divorce and POSSIBLY remarriage IF/when I decide he is worthy. Our marriage is dead now anyway. (Unfortunately, I have always thought poorly of people who remarried their exes—either making the same bad choice twice or wondering why didn’t they just work it out the first time—but I think I may see that situation from a very different perspective now.)


----------



## re16

You should block him on your phone, even if temporary. Force some space.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> WW, I want to share the story of a good friend that may be apropos.
> 
> Like you, he was in a long term marriage, in their 50s with grown kids out of the house. Like you, he and his wife were both professionals. Both traveled for work from time to time. Like you, his wife admitted her ONS on a business trip after having one too many. Like you, the revelation sent him into a *massive* tailspin.
> 
> His CW was full of regret. Begged to stay together. Laid out *her* plan for their R.
> 
> Like you, he told her he needed time and distance to figure himself out. She attempted to love and sex bomb him. He would not participate and held firm that he needed time apart to start to heal and get clarity.
> 
> When the hurricane of his emotions calmed from a cat 5 to a cat 1, he started to get perspective. He ended up divorcing her. To her credit, she did what many talk about, IC, timeline, accountability, std test, etc but it was not enough for him as the relationship was never the same.
> 
> I asked him what the deciding factor was and he put it this way to me (not exact but paraphrased), "DE, when I met my CW, *I* *chose* to date her and she reciprocated. When we progressed in our relationship, *I chose* to propose marriage to her and she chose to accept my proposal. When we got married,* I chose *to vow my marital fidelity to her at the altar, sealed with the exchange of rings and she chose to do the same. When she broke her vow to me and subsequently begged to reconcile, I was, in essence, forced into a choice not of my making. Put another way. I was being asked to choose someone who was, in great measure, a stranger to me. A stranger I happened to know a lot about. *I decided to refuse that choice through divorce."*
> 
> She was broken hearted and threw emotional fits at him but his mind was made up. He regained the power to choose for himself what he believed was best for him. He went on to tell me that he did not close the door on choosing her again sometime in the future but chose to keep his options open for the time being.
> 
> He is now dating a lovely woman, every bit his equal and they seem to be very happy together. His relationship with the kids is strong and they love his new SO.
> 
> His ex is doing ok. Shes deeply regretful, ashamed and seems very sad most of the time. She too has dated (heard through the grapevine), but nothing serious has developed. I think she pines for him and knows she took him for granted. Its a huge loss to her imo. He is a prince of a guy. Not flashy, but true blue, loyal, loving, faithful, & hard working.
> 
> Hope that helps.


The more I contemplate this story, the more I realize THAT is EXACTLY how I feel.


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> The more I contemplate this story, the more I realize THAT is EXACTLY how I feel.


Me, too. Once the dust settled, I just knew I could not do it and live with myself. I just do not let people treat me like this. I jettison them if they do.


----------



## Woundidwife

Megaforce said:


> Me, too. Once the dust settled, I just knew I could not do it and live with myself. I just do not let people treat me like this. I jettison them if they do.


How long did it take you to come to that conclusion?


----------



## BoSlander

Woundidwife said:


> He has, until this, been the most honest, reliable and trustworthy man I have ever known.


Sounds like you just met your *REAL* man. 

Look, I don't really know the circumstances around this "situation" but your husband should've communicated his issues to you prior to him going out and hooking up with the first _bar-ho_ he could find. *HIS* cheating was *HIS* choice, not yours. What I do like is the fact that he did come out and tell you about the encounter, that speaks volumes. 

Investigate as to whether there is more than meets the eye (relationship between the two or that he has cheated before) and if nothing is found, go to counseling and try to work things out.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> The more I contemplate this story, the more I realize THAT is EXACTLY how I feel.


Im glad you found it relatable. Aside from the obvious parallels, I thought that his perspective on his right to choose, to make his own choices and not be forced into a false choice, may be helpful to you.

Again, this is still all so very fresh to you. You are just trying to get your feet under you again after being knocked down hard.

I do think a seperation will help you stabilize and be able to get more clarity. If you read Walloped's story over at SI, he seperated for 2 months and even took a trip with a buddy to relax in order to get to a place where he decided to try and see if he could reconcile with his CW. It looks like he did, but if you read his 5 month update, it was brutally hard. Her posts indicate the same.

The key here is your level of determination to follow that path and not capitulate to his directives. We can encourage you to do so (seperate), but its on you to follow through, a cruel irony that even more pressure is placed on the Betrayed to do things that are very uncomfortable for them, on top of the A trauma thats already been inflicted, in order to "right the ship" of their life. Its part of the shyte sandwich so many Betrayed's talk of. All thats left are hard choices. All thanks to our cheaters. Nice (dripping with sarcasm).

That said, you *can* do this. You can overcome your self admitted co dependent tendancies, establish strong bounderies with him and seperate. For the sake of this discussion, have you fleshed out what that would look like? Where you both would live for a time? How bills/finances would be handled? What would be communicated to family and friends?

Theres an old saying that states, "You can only walk as far as you can see." When things are dark, you have to visualize in order to chart a course. Maybe even write down a plan as a kind of roadmap.

Strength and clarity to you WW. We are pullin for you ma'am.

ETA: And on top of all of that, you still have to do every day life like go to work and perform at your job 🙄😕


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> How long did it take you to come to that conclusion?


Finding your own self worth is a long process in my opinion. But, as they say, a long journey begins with the first step.

At the beginning of my journey I felt like a fake. Kind of like I was “entitled” or “better than”. That was just negative self-talk and my own insecurity. Eventually that fades and you start to see the truth without having to mentally force yourself.

Take that first step and decide that you are worth it. That you deserve better treatment and anyone who doesn’t treat you with respect will not be in your life. Then terminate any and all relationships that violate that boundary. That won’t be fun or easy, but it is necessary.

Best of luck to you.


----------



## DosEquis

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Finding your own self worth is a long process in my opinion. But, as they say, a long journey begins with the first step.
> 
> At the beginning of my journey I felt like a fake. Kind of like I was “entitled” or “better than”. That was just negative self-talk and my own insecurity. Eventually that fades and you start to see the truth without having to mentally force yourself.
> 
> Take that first step and decide that you are worth it. That you deserve better treatment and anyone who doesn’t treat you with respect will not be in your life. Then terminate any and all relationships that violate that boundary. That won’t be fun or easy, but it is necessary.
> 
> Best of luck to you.


*Great* post BR007.

I tell my kids, "Know your worth. Know it and believe it. If *you* dont, who will?


----------



## Divinely Favored

Woundidwife said:


> but that has not happened, and obviously, my submissive, co-dependent conditioning has not allowed me to assert myself well enough to make separation happen yet.


Has nothing to do with being submissive. 
My wife is submissive, but if I cheated she would shoot me and the AP. She will turn into a wolverine over me. 

Co-dependant is not conditioned....it is just a personality trait. It is something you do need to break out of though. Traumatic things like this are something that can break that co-dependant personality. But boy does that add another layer of pain. 

When I broke out of that with my wife, it freaking hurt. To not put her in such high place of esteem. Took her off that pedestal and to realize she is not what I viewed her as in my mind. It is a bit like mourning a death. 

I'm a very emotional, loving sentimental romantic guy, and to break that idea of my wife, via my co-dependant, and really see her flaws and short comings hurt like a mother!
But my relationship is great now. Very loving and sexual. I know I could get a much younger hotter model, but she is the one I love and I know every inch of her body and all her hot buttons, likewise she is submissive and fulfills my fantasies and can literally read my mind. We make each other completely satisfied and happy, but it started with breaking my co-dependancy and both learning to communicate.


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> How long did it take you to come to that conclusion?


We had young kids, one disabled. It took about 3 months. My Xw' sister came to me and urged me to divorce her.
She told me that as I walked down the aisle with her sister, she turned to her husband and said" I hope this poor guy knows what he is getting into."

I had never heard of narcissistic personality disorder. After 12 years of abuse, I was unrecognizable to myself. But this bright line violation, infidelity, got me off my ass and out. In retrospect, it was a blessing.


----------



## DosEquis

WW, this account may be helpful as to perspective.


----------



## Megaforce

DosEquis said:


> WW, this account may be helpful as to perspective.


I believe there are plenty of people whom feel like this, that they have an unsatisfactory marriage post cheating. But, then again there are rpthose claiming cheating was a catalyst leading to a better marriage. I do not challenge these folks. It is their marriage. 
But, in my head I just believe they are delusional. It is projection on my part. But, I know I would always be resentful.


----------



## Megaforce

Who not whom.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Megaforce said:


> I believe there are plenty of people whom feel like this, that they have an unsatisfactory marriage post cheating. But, then again there are rpthose claiming cheating was a catalyst leading to a better marriage. I do not challenge these folks. It is their marriage.
> But, in my head I just believe they are delusional. It is projection on my part. But, I know I would always be resentful.


To have a better marriage, there had to be some serious issues already happening.


----------



## DosEquis

The reason I posted that example is that, like many Betrayeds, this guy decided to R and is in purgatory decades later which I think is the case for many BSs who try to R. Pidgeonholers will say, its just a false R. I say, its as good as it gets and it has reached its peak.....far far from the heights of their M before her adultery.

Neither R or D is a panacea of healing and restoration. However, one of those options eliminates a *2-5 year "*healing" arc with massive ups and downs with no garuntee of success and healing can begin much more quickly without dealing with all of the crap and spin of the CS before they get their head on straight (IF they ever do).

When WW seperates for a few months minimum, I hope the way forward starts to come into focus.


----------



## Woundidwife

Thank you all for your support.

I have already been in purgatory for most of my marriage. So, THAT is unacceptable to me. 

We are starting a real separation later this week, after making arrangements for it to go smoothly and our next MC session. (Some housekeeping type things need to be in place before separation happens.) I still need to figure out all of the boundaries, but I think the MC will help me/us with that.

I am feeling better about the separation situation, though the idea alone initially caused me some anxiety. (I have NEVER been truly alone!) I have a game plan for a rough daily schedule of healthy eating, exercise, and ME hobbies to occupy my time as well planning some outings with friends. This is difficult for me since I have told none of my local friends what is going on. They are not as quick to be available for me. IF I decide to R, I do not want MY humiliation to be pervasive, but I can also contact my close family members (who do know) to hang out with as they will be better able to support me. 

I am apprehensive, but I know this is something that I need to do. For ME.


----------



## Openminded

My situation was different (cheating with someone who reported to him) but what was similar is that my husband didn’t also want to divorce and fought it. The first time we had a minor child so I stayed. The second time (that I’m aware of anyway — there may have been other times) our child was an adult and I got out. I had never been alone, completely on my own, except when my husband traveled (often for weeks at a time) and that’s obviously not the same. I completely rebuilt my life and it was a huge adjustment. Definitely not where I thought I’d be at this age but it works well for me. You have many options at this point. You may reconcile as is. You may create a totally different marriage. You may not want marriage going forward. You may not want him in your life in any way. You need time to think and to be. But whatever the decision is it should be what’s best for you and you alone.


----------



## re16

Woundidwife said:


> I am feeling better about the separation situation, though the idea alone initially caused me some anxiety. (I have NEVER been truly alone!)


That fear of being alone is likely a stronger driver to attempt to recover the relationship than the loss of your husband. Pushing through the separation will be good, as you will realize that you are just fine on your own.

Then you can make some real decisions once that fear is conquered....


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife, anxiety is completely understandable given the circumstances you are facing. All the best to you as you take this important step. I hope you'll keep posting as you continue to process everything.


----------



## Woundidwife

Openminded said:


> My situation was different (cheating with someone who reported to him) but what was similar is that my husband didn’t also want to divorce and fought it. The first time we had a minor child so I stayed. The second time (that I’m aware of anyway — there may have been other times) our child was an adult and I got out. I had never been alone, completely on my own, except when my husband traveled (often for weeks at a time) and that’s obviously not the same. I completely rebuilt my life and it was a huge adjustment. Definitely not where I thought I’d be at this age but it works well for me. You have many options at this point. You may reconcile as is. You may create a totally different marriage. You may not want marriage going forward. You may not want him in your life in any way. You need time to think and to be. But whatever the decision is it should be what’s best for you and you alone.


Thank you for that. I appreciate you sharing your perspective in a similar situation. I believe now that I CAN do this, I just never intended to, never planned for it and never wanted to. 😔


----------



## Woundidwife

re16 said:


> That fear of being alone is likely a stronger driver to attempt to recover the relationship than the loss of your husband. Pushing through the separation will be good, as you will realize that you are just fine on your own.
> 
> Then you can make some real decisions once that fear is conquered....


You are correct on all counts—which is why I felt very much like I didn’t have a choice but to R against every fiber of my being. I felt like al of MY choices had been made for me, or stripped from me. I feel a little better now that I have somewhat regained control of my situation—but there is so much to learn, and I am still afraid, moving forward. The fear of the unknown is HUGE—it definitely was the largest contributing factor for me feeling like I had no choice but to stay. (I felt like someone was sitting on my chest/or that skank was riding on my shoulders. The weight has somewhat been lifted, though when we have difficult conversations, I do still have very literal heart pains—just like before my first surgery.). The stress with my WH being anywhere near me is off the charts sometimes!


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Woundidwife, anxiety is completely understandable given all of the circumstances you are facing. All the best to you as you take this important step. I hope you'll keep posting as you continue to process everything.


Thank you. I will, as I imagine I will still appreciate suggestions and support. I can’t imagine going through any of this without some sort of support group. We do not live in an area where there are live support groups for much of anything (except AA maybe?). If there was, we would likely know every single person there, (very rural area) so there would be no anonymity anyway, and I am doing my best NOT to be publicly humiliated. The private hell and humiliation are plenty for me to deal with right now. (At one point, I was so angry, I thought that if I didn’t stay, I would advertise his actions to intentionally humiliate him. Not sure I would even do that now, because that would still humiliate me. Everyone would ask “who”, and WH doesn’t even f***ing know who she was. Totally worth risking our marriage, lifestyle and our entire existence, though. Obviously.) 😡🤬 😭😔


----------



## snowbum

You do you. Being alone can seem daunting. You know his cheating isn’t a reflection of you, it’s a mirror of his ****ty behavior and low character. Covering it up over embarrassment t of how peoe will react doesn’t help you. It enables him by keeping the image that he’s a great guy going.

Are you at peace with his actions? Do you trust him alone? Because eventually he’ll go out alone. You won’t cage him o definitely.

if he really screwed a complete stranger he’s a rotten human being. Who does that?


----------



## Sfort

Megaforce said:


> Who not whom.


You can edit the original post.


----------



## Openminded

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you for that. I appreciate you sharing your perspective in a similar situation. I believe now that I CAN do this, I just never intended to, never planned for it and never wanted to. 😔


Divorce after decades of marriage is obviously very difficult. I never felt that would be me and I always hoped it could be fixed but it just couldn’t. My exH fought the divorce and made lots of promises but I had finally had enough. Even after he remarried he continued to wish things had been different. I’m happy to be removed from all that. You will be too.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you. I will, as I imagine I will still appreciate suggestions and support. I can’t imagine going through any of this without some sort of support group. We do not live in an area where there are live support groups for much of anything (except AA maybe?). If there was, we would likely know every single person there, (very rural area) so there would be no anonymity anyway, and I am doing my best NOT to be publicly humiliated. The private hell and humiliation are plenty for me to deal with right now. (At one point, I was so angry, I thought that if I didn’t stay, I would advertise his actions to intentionally humiliate him. Not sure I would even do that now, because that would still humiliate me. Everyone would ask “who”, and WH doesn’t even f***ing know who she was. Totally worth risking our marriage, lifestyle and our entire existence, though. Obviously.) 😡🤬 😭😔


God, what a loaded paragraph.

First, again, let me affirm your decision to enact this seperation. It is an investment in *you. *If for nothing else, it will give you space, a buffer if you will. It will allow you the time to assess, to take stock and gain perspective. All of these aspects are positive and much needed imo. I believe it will be productive for you.

*"The private hell and humiliation are plenty for me to deal with right now. At one point, I was so angry, I thought that if I didn’t stay, I would advertise his actions to intentionally humiliate him. Not sure I would even do that now, because that would still humiliate me. Everyone would ask “who”, and WH doesn’t even f***ing know who she was. Totally worth risking our marriage, lifestyle and our entire existence, though. Obviously" *The level of anger resulting from this kind of betrayal (think "et tu Brute" level betrayal) is visceral. I used to imagine hundreds of ways to humiliate my CW and to rain retribution down on her FBuddy.

Let me give you a tiny glimpse into my past personal hell....my CWs FB was my supposed best friend. Ill just leave that right there for you to turn over in your mind. I honestly wish it *HAD *been someone I never knew and could not put a face to, but that was not my fate. I was fated to endure a hellish dual betrayal by the two people I loved and trusted the most.

Ya see, known or unknown, the cruel fu**s that our CS's betray us with are, just like their APs (our CSs), warped on the inside and their twisted souls seek to deform us just like them and its difficult to resist when youve been stomped on that hard. We are left dealing with not just the hurt and hatred resulting from the betrayal, but also the fight for the integrity of our very souls. To not let our insides get twisted up, embittered and jaded. This, for me, was the work of years. I am still working on certain aspects of it to this day tbh.

I say all of this to say, I hear you. I get it. Im going to encourage you, in this time, to do some things you enjoy. That relax you. Take a spa day. Hell, take multiple spa days. Take day trips. Go to the theater or library. Whatever floats your boat. You dont need a lot more "heavy". You need some "light" times to help ease the burden you're carrying.

All the best.


----------



## aine

Woundidwife said:


> Agreed and it continues with him still sideways blaming me. He “didn’t feel that I loved him” anymore.


That is gaslighting and blame shifting ******** right there. If he felt like that then why didn't he open his big mouth and say "let's talk" no instead he thought it was a better idea to go f*** another woman. i call major BS!


----------



## DosEquis

Hope youre getting some good *you* time in WW.


----------



## Megaforce

I wonder if you will ever get the truth from him. He is lying.


----------



## Jimi007

Megaforce said:


> I wonder if you will ever get the truth from him. He is lying.


Probably not. It also seems like there is a lot more going on here that's not told. 

I can't wrap my head around why he told her in the 1st place ?

He had to know what the outcome of that decision would be....

Extreme guilt , maybe someone else in the bar recognized him ?


----------



## DosEquis

Jimi007 said:


> Probably not. It also seems like there is a lot more going on here that's not told.
> 
> I can't wrap my head around why he told her in the 1st place ?
> 
> He had to know what the outcome of that decision would be....
> 
> Extreme guilt , maybe someone else in the bar recognized him ?


I think the vast majority of marital betrayers are exposed when found out by the faithful spouse or someone else. I dont have verifiable stats on that, just my assessment from reading a lot of threads and messaging many betrayeds. My betrayal was discovered by another friend who let me know what was going on.

That said, some marital traitors do confess, for different reasons. Some do so out of guilt. Some because they know they've been found out and they want to try and control the story so they confess before being exposed. When they do so, most minimize the adultery on purpose. They are trying to limit the damage as, in their f'd up brains, they think they can make it through the "minimized" fall out and not lose their spouse and family. I think we are all very suspicious that this is the case here. Experience has taught us that deceit is the stock and trade of the cheater. They've lied so much, they dont even recognize it themselves. Throw in alcohol abuse and you have one doozy of a liar.

Regardless of the number of times or how long the betrayal was going on, it still only takes one time to be devestating. Any more incidents just act as trauma magnifiers for the betrayed. I put it this way, how many times does it take to be stabbed in the back (an analogy used by many betrayeds), through the heart with a poisoned blade to be deadly? Just once. This takes away the attempted minimizing of the impact of the cheating by the traitor who says shyte like. "It was only once, It meant nothing", blah, blah, blah. Truth is it only takes one time to be a marriage killer, and thats a fact.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Jimi007 said:


> Probably not. It also seems like there is a lot more going on here that's not told.
> 
> I can't wrap my head around why he told her in the 1st place ?
> 
> He had to know what the outcome of that decision would be....
> 
> Extreme guilt , maybe someone else in the bar recognized him ?


I suspect very strongly that this other woman is not a random stranger, but someone with whom he’s had an ongoing affair. I also suspect that she (or someone else that knows about the affair) threatened to tell his wife and that is why he “came clean.” I do not believe that he waited a month to tell her if it was truly guilt that was motivating him.

All of that, however, is conjecture on my part. I have no knowledge of this situation other than what has been shared here. My life experience is what makes me doubt that the husband here is this super great and honest guy who just happened to go to the perfect bar and “run into” this woman who happened to immediately leap into bed with him. The world rarely works like that. But still, it’s conjecture, I have no way of knowing for sure.


----------



## Megaforce

TexasMom1216 said:


> I suspect very strongly that this other woman is not a random stranger, but someone with whom he’s had an ongoing affair. I also suspect that she (or someone else that knows about the affair) threatened to tell his wife and that is why he “came clean.” I do not believe that he waited a month to tell her if it was truly guilt that was motivating him.
> 
> All of that, however, is conjecture on my part. I have no knowledge of this situation other than what has been shared here. My life experience is what makes me doubt that the husband here is this super great and honest guy who just happened to go to the perfect bar and “run into” this woman who happened to immediately leap into bed with him. The world rarely works like that. But still, it’s conjecture, I have no way of knowing for sure.


I agree. And, despite her initial characterization of him as honest and stable,she has mentioned feeling stuck in limbo for a long time. Plus, his behavior post discovery has been less than stellar.
Factor in that he perceives that because he was unjustifiably angry at her due to just assuming she had been drinking( how moronic, pathetic, actually); this somehow mitigates the betrayal. This makes no sense, of course, but in the unlikely event this guy actually thinks this way, no way was he ev er honest and reliable.


----------



## oldshirt

TexasMom1216 said:


> I suspect very strongly that this other woman is not a random stranger, but someone with whom he’s had an ongoing affair. I also suspect that she (or someone else that knows about the affair) threatened to tell his wife and that is why he “came clean.” I do not believe that he waited a month to tell her if it was truly guilt that was motivating him.
> 
> All of that, however, is conjecture on my part. I have no knowledge of this situation other than what has been shared here. My life experience is what makes me doubt that the husband here is this super great and honest guy who just happened to go to the perfect bar and “run into” this woman who happened to immediately leap into bed with him. The world rarely works like that. But still, it’s conjecture, I have no way of knowing for sure.


I also agree. 

I know people hook up in bars.


But for a supposedly faithful husband of many years to just walk into a bar on a whim one night and walk out with some random chick he doesn’t even know her name…. 

either he is some kind of George Clooney or she was incredibly fat, drunk and desperate .. or she was a professional. 

I just don’t think an otherwise faithful ordinary married man would have that level of game unless she was somehow compromised or she was getting paid in some way.

Heck I don’t think I would be able to pull that off and spent 10 years in the swinging lifestyle and am otherwise a normal height and weight and average looking guy. 

I’d be like Owen Wilson in the movie Hall Pass where I wouldn’t even know if I should go to Olive Garden or Applebees to pick up chicks LOL 😆


----------



## *Deidre*

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you all for your support.
> 
> I have already been in purgatory for most of my marriage. So, THAT is unacceptable to me.
> 
> We are starting a real separation later this week, after making arrangements for it to go smoothly and our next MC session. (Some housekeeping type things need to be in place before separation happens.) I still need to figure out all of the boundaries, but I think the MC will help me/us with that.
> 
> I am feeling better about the separation situation, though the idea alone initially caused me some anxiety. (I have NEVER been truly alone!) I have a game plan for a rough daily schedule of healthy eating, exercise, and ME hobbies to occupy my time as well planning some outings with friends. This is difficult for me since I have told none of my local friends what is going on. They are not as quick to be available for me. IF I decide to R, I do not want MY humiliation to be pervasive, but I can also contact my close family members (who do know) to hang out with as they will be better able to support me.
> 
> I am apprehensive, but I know this is something that I need to do. For ME.


That’s great to see you’ve made a decision and you will gain clarity I think, when you’re living alone. If I could give some advice - don’t over schedule yourself so you’re “too” busy. You need time to quietly process things and cry, vent in a journal etc…and so on.

I have a friend who went through a divorce and she was always traveling to stay busy and never processed her grief. So just wanted to share that idea because with any kind of trauma, staying too busy can help us block it out, but not really _deal_ with it.

Hope it goes well.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Megaforce said:


> I agree. And, despite her initial characterization of him as honest and stable,she has mentioned feeling stuck in limbo for a long time. Plus, his behavior post discovery has been less than stellar.
> Factor in that he perceives that because he was unjustifiably angry at her due to just assuming she had been drinking( how moronic, pathetic, actually); this somehow mitigates the betrayal. This makes no sense, of course, but in the unlikely event this guy actually thinks this way, no way was he ev er honest and reliable.


The fact that he insisted on staying in her face while she dealt with this, his refusal to leave and give her space, to me indicates he expects her to allow him to do this. He does not seem to feel she has any right to demand fidelity but must instead internalize the responsibility for his affairs and try to “do better” so he won’t “have” to cheat again. He feels entitled to her loyalty and does not believe she has the same right.


----------



## Woundidwife

*Deidre* said:


> That’s great to see you’ve made a decision and you will gain clarity I think, when you’re living alone. If I could give some advice - don’t over schedule yourself so you’re “too” busy. You need time to quietly process things and cry, vent in a journal etc…and so on.
> 
> I have a friend who went through a divorce and she was always traveling to stay busy and never processed her grief. So just wanted to share that idea because with any kind of trauma, staying too busy can help us block it out, but not really _deal_ with it.
> 
> Hope it goes well.


You are right. Thank you for the heads up. One of my siblings said the same thing. I will keep a lot of down time, too, but it seems like all I do right now though is think and process. It is exhausting. It will be nice for me to think on my own terms and not when things just happen to present themselves (WH’s mere presence is a catalyst sometimes). I know there will definitely be a lot of solitary ugly-crying in my future.

Upon the approaching day of separation, I came to the very sudden realization that I DO WANT TO TRY TO FORGIVE my WH, because I do love him, and I will miss him. This was contrary to the way I was feeling up until this epiphany, however. Hopefully the separation will bring clarity and peace for me, paving the way for a smooth reconciliation.

Oldshirt—yes, she was chubby, average, and desperate. I am thinking she was a BS looking to even a score with no conscience (married man WEARING his ring). So yes, APs with no morals and their disgusting points-of-view infuriate me.

Everyone—I appreciate the supportive posts. I do generally ignore the negative ones, but occasionally one ticks me off. Please, please be supportive. That is what I really need.

Also, PLEASE POST positive support on “Wife confessed to a ONS” for Tbumgarner12. I was inadvertently the original thread-jacker on his thread for help, and I feel terrible. That poor guy is in the same boat that I am with no support on his thread. This is really upsetting to me as I am the reason he is likely suffering alone.

Where are all the ONS survivors? Do they really not return? My guess is that if they don’t, it may be due to the harshness of the bitter, rain-on-everyone’s-parade folks. 

Sometimes storms do pass over. My parade may still see sunshine again. That is my hope.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Hope youre getting some good *you* time in WW.


Not yet, but that IS the plan.

Thank you!


----------



## Woundidwife

Please take my situation at face value. Yes, it was a stranger—not an affair. Luckily though, as it happened in our hometown, no one else knows about it, but unfortunately that also means I can’t find her. (And of course, I would still like to.) He truly felt guilty and confessed of his own accord. 

I am trying to be positive and get the poison out of my system. Real ONS support would be appreciated.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> You are right. Thank you for the heads up. One of my siblings said the same thing. I will keep a lot of down time, too, but it seems like all I do right now though is think and process. It is exhausting. It will be nice for me to think on my own terms and not when things just happen to present themselves (WH’s mere presence is a catalyst sometimes). I know there will definitely be a lot of solitary ugly-crying in my future.
> 
> Upon the approaching day of separation, I came to the very sudden realization that I DO WANT TO TRY TO FORGIVE my WH, because I do love him, and I will miss him. This was contrary to the way I was feeling up until this epiphany, however. Hopefully the separation will bring clarity and peace for me, paving the way for a smooth reconciliation.
> 
> Oldshirt—yes, she was chubby, average, and desperate. I am thinking she was a BS looking to even a score with no conscience (married man WEARING his ring). So yes, APs with no morals and their disgusting points-of-view infuriate me.
> 
> Everyone—I appreciate the supportive posts. I do generally ignore the negative ones, but occasionally one ticks me off. Please, please be supportive. That is what I really need.
> 
> Also, PLEASE POST positive support on “Wife confessed to a ONS” for Tbumgarner12. I was inadvertently the original thread-jacker on his thread for help, and I feel terrible. That poor guy is in the same boat that I am with no support on his thread. This is really upsetting to me as I am the reason he is likely suffering alone.
> 
> Where are all the ONS survivors? Do they really not return? My guess is that if they don’t, it may be due to the harshness of the bitter, rain-on-everyone’s-parade folks.
> 
> Sometimes storms do pass over. My parade may still see sunshine again. That is my hope.


Good to hear from you WW. Ill look for Tbumgarner12.

When you say. *"Where are all the ONS survivors?"*, do you mean healed and recoverd whether D or R, or just R? I can point you to a ONS survivor who is healed and recovered but ended up D'ing.

Can you help me a bit here when you say, *"Everyone—I appreciate the supportive posts. I do generally ignore the negative ones, but occasionally one ticks me off. Please, please be supportive. That is what I really need." *What I mean is, what do you consider negative and what do you consider supportive? Im just trying to understand your mindset concerning these concepts.

Id also like to use a finer tooth comb concerning this statement, *"I came to the very sudden realization that I DO WANT TO TRY TO FORGIVE my WH, because I do love him, and I will miss him." *Understood, and if this remains your goal, I will do my best to feed into that discussion, primarily from the point of view of having a certain level of expertise as to what *not* to do 🙄.

I would like to suggest, however, that forgiveness is Mount Everest right now and that it is not needed to begin the work of reconciliation. For now, just tackle acceptance. Acceptance of who he has been revealed to be. Acceptance that it all did go down. Acceptance that this is the new reality. Acceptance. Acceptance, is realized, in part, by the lessenening of the internal emotional storm within you, a ceasing of kicking against the known, a resignation to the truth.

If you can get to the starting line of acceptance, you may then be able to push further into the years long grueling process known as reconciliation. Somewhere along the way, if all is optimal and your CH is willing to do ALL that is needed to help you heal, you may grow into that blessed state known as forgiveness.

I will relate this to you, and forgive me if I am repeating myself. There was a BH whos wife confessed to a TNS on a business trip. He was devestated, and like your H she wanted to R and do whatever he needed. He thought on it for a while and then said that he would divorce her and move on with his life. He said that the thought of never being able to be proud of her and brag that he had the best wife was just too much of a burden to carry. He was ashamed and humiliated. He began the process of legal seperation.

She was destroyed. Her life came down around her ears. She believed it was over and wept and wept. She would weep every morning in the shower trying to get ready for work.

One day, he asked to talk and she agreed. He told her how hard this had been. That he still loved her but did not trust her. He said that he started thinking very critically about trust and that he changed his perception of it. He said that he used to think of trust as if it were brittle like porcelain and once shattered, could never be repaired. However, he now saw it as a living thing, like a plant that had a been deeply bruised and uprooted, but could be replanted, braced and tended to with care, and given time, could recover.

That beautiful description has stuck with me and it gives me hope. Maybe it will for you as well.

There is a line in my favorite movie of all time that I will leave you with, "*Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."*


----------



## DosEquis

OK, just remembered a great ONS account with successful R. Its in 3 parts:

Here

Here

and 

Here


----------



## Not

I think it would be wise to prepare yourself for the fact that you may flip-flop quite a bit and for a long time. Going back-and-forth between wanting to reconcile to not wanting too. It’s important to make a no permanent decision while you’re doing that.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> When you say. *"Where are all the ONS survivors?"*, do you mean healed and recoverd whether D or R, or just R? I can point you to a ONS survivor who is healed and recovered but ended up D'ing.
> 
> Id also like to use a finer tooth comb concerning this statement, *"I came to the very sudden realization that I DO WANT TO TRY TO FORGIVE my WH, because I do love him, and I will miss him." *Understood, and if this remains your goal, I will do my best to feed into that discussion, primarily from the point of view of having a certain level of expertise as to what *not* to do 🙄.


Both R’s and D’s—whatever is available. Where are these folks? Threads may be older, so I want to know if they really just move on never to return here?

“Supportive” to me is consoling me and providing possibly helpful advice that actually coincides with my current mindset, which is to head in the R direction. Posters who are digging for more dirt or intentionally trying to create more than is already there are very upsetting. (I have enough problems right now!!)

I will read what you have posted and as always, appreciate your time-tested experience advice. What NOT to do included. You are still R’d, correct?


----------



## Woundidwife

Not said:


> I think it would be wise to prepare yourself for the fact that you may flip-flop quite a bit and for a long time. Going back-and-forth between wanting to reconcile to not wanting too. It’s important to make a no permanent decision while you’re doing that.


I hear you. I can understand that, too. I have promised to try to forgive, and I currently believe that I want to R. That is where I am now.


----------



## snowbum

How do you know she was chubby? He’s not going to says she wax a bombshell.


----------



## Woundidwife

snowbum said:


> How do you know she was chubby? He’s not going to says she wax a bombshell.


Lol. (Good news! Your question: something related to my upended life has almost really made me laugh.) 
He said she was built like me…I don’t consider myself chubby (unless I am naked) because I am excellent at the art of camouflaging my pudge, however he knows what is under my professional dress clothes, so unfortunately he is inadvertently calling me chubby, too, which I don’t like and will change shortly.

ETA: Correction, now he says she was built like me, only bigger. (Which is NOT built like me then.) She was chubby, but I am not. I plan to get myself in shape FOR ME. My heart requires a little weight loss. (Along with less or no salt, alcohol and LESS STRESS. Fat chance of that one.)


----------



## Woundidwife

Also, again, he CONFESSED, and is at my mercy, so why lie about any of it?


----------



## snowbum

You have a long history. You know him. Give yourself time to feel things on your own with no input from him


----------



## snowbum

Woundidwife said:


> Also, again, he CONFESSED, and is at my mercy, so why lie about any of it?


Because you wouldn’t know so he’ll tell you what makes him look good.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> Lol. (Good news! Your question: something related to my upended life has almost really made me laugh.)
> He said she was built like me…I don’t consider myself chubby (unless I am naked) because I am excellent at the art of camouflaging my pudge, however he knows what is under my professional dress clothes, so unfortunately he is inadvertently calling me chubby, too, which I don’t like and will change shortly.


So you’re going to lose weight to make him more attracted to you and be less “chubby”. Got it. 

Your story is so sad. Even more sad because you want people to tell you only what you want to hear, not what we see as suspicious and controlling behavior from your husband. 

The most supportive I can be is to say, I wish you well. You’re in for a long and very painful road and I feel for you. Good luck.


----------



## TexasMom1216

snowbum said:


> Because you wouldn’t know so he’ll tell you what makes him look good.


She thinks he is “at her mercy””, but she is going to lose weight and twist herself into a pretzel to be “good enough” so he won’t cheat again. This whole thing is so sad. 😔


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> Also, again, he CONFESSED, and is at my mercy, so why lie about any of it?


Yes he confessed every detail, except the ones he forgot. And the right day. And why he did it. And he only got 14 pumps into her instead of finishing (laughable). You’re right, he is super trustworthy because he confessed, and therefore he must also be right that you are at fault for him cheating so you should get sexier and not make him ever feel unloved again. I just puked in my mouth writing that out. 

I don’t think you’ll find people that support reconciling with this guy here, you’ve shared too many details of his shady decisions and lies and blame-shifting. You will have to get super good at denial and minimization of your pain or likely go to another forum and tell them less details of what he’s done and said to you if you want blind support for reconciling.


----------



## snowbum

If you reconcile, he will lose respect for you. You accepted the **** he served you. He was able to cheat and lie. Within hours you were changing to win him back. He will continue to control you. By staying your appearance of being perfect in a pidunk town will be untarnished. Mr Big Shot will still be cool guy. All wins for him. Do something good for you. Put yourself first for once.


----------



## Not

Woundidwife said:


> Both R’s and D’s—whatever is available. Where are these folks? Threads may be older, so I want to know if they really just move on never to return here?
> 
> “Supportive” to me is consoling me and providing possibly helpful advice that actually coincides with my current mindset, which is to head in the R direction. Posters who are digging for more dirt or intentionally trying to create more than is already there are very upsetting. (I have enough problems right now!!)
> 
> I will read what you have posted and as always, appreciate your time-tested experience advice. What NOT to do included. You are still R’d, correct?


I think it would be helpful if you just simply blocked certain members. I would hate to see you lose the support of the few who are here for you and genuinely assisting, if you were to leave TAM.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Both R’s and D’s—whatever is available. Where are these folks? Threads may be older, so I want to know if they really just move on never to return here?
> 
> “Supportive” to me is consoling me and providing possibly helpful advice that actually coincides with my current mindset, which is to head in the R direction. Posters who are digging for more dirt or intentionally trying to create more than is already there are very upsetting. (I have enough problems right now!!)
> 
> I will read what you have posted and as always, appreciate your time-tested experience advice. What NOT to do included. You are still R’d, correct?


I attempted R for ten years. It was brutal. In hindsight, I should have D'd. It wasnt just the issue of the A itself and the fact that my CW was not fully remorseful, it was that I could not defeat the resentment in my soul. Regardless of the books I read and the therapy I did, I could not excise it and it was palpable. Of course, right behind that resentment was anger/rage. This toxic combo really submarined much of the work I tried to do to reconcile

That said, this is not a one-approach-fits-all situation. If R is your goal, Ill feed into that discussion as I can. Ive given you one *huge* caution which is to do all you can in reading and therapy to deal with resentment and rage, both now, and what will be barreling down on you in the future. It tends to come back worse every time it crops up. At least that was my experience.

ETA: There were other mistakes I made but ultimately the resentment was the thing that kept poisoning the well.


----------



## Woundidwife

Not said:


> I think it would be helpful if you just simply blocked certain members. I would hate to see you lose the support of the few who are here for you and genuinely assisting, if you were to leave TAM.


Thank you. I think I figured it out. Do I just click on their names and then click “Ignore” and then never see their posts again?


----------



## Diana7

For me I would have to ask myself the following questions before I even thought about reconciling. 

1) Can I ever trust him again? For me the answer is no. Trust for me in marriage is vital. Once that has gone what is left?
2) Could I ever have sex with him again without thinking of him with her? Or could I ever have sex with him again period?For me again, the answer is no. He would have destroyed that intimacy between us.It would never be the same. 
3) Am I 100% sure he is telling the full truth? Without a lie detector test I could never trust that he hasn't lied or minimized it all. After all he has lied and deceived already, he can do it again just as easily. Remember, cheaters lie. 
4) Am I thinking of staying because I don't want to lose my lifestyle/income? 
5)Am I thinking of staying out of fear of being alone/managing alone? Fear of being a single parent? 
6) Am I thinking of staying because I don't want people to think badly of us? 
7)Am I thinking of staying because the thought of going through a divorce is worse?
8) Am I worried I may never meet anyone else? 

I suspect a LOT of people stay due to some of the above. Fear can keep us trapped.


----------



## Diana7

TexasMom1216 said:


> She thinks he is “at her mercy””, but she is going to lose weight and twist herself into a pretzel to be “good enough” so he won’t cheat again. This whole thing is so sad. 😔


Just so awful


----------



## oldshirt

Woundidwife said:


> Please take my situation at face value. Yes, it was a stranger—not an affair. Luckily though, as it happened in our hometown, no one else knows about it, but unfortunately that also means I can’t find her. (And of course, I would still like to.) He truly felt guilty and confessed of his own accord.
> 
> I am trying to be positive and get the poison out of my system. Real ONS support would be appreciated.


I’m not trying to be snarky here but asking a legit question- but what does “ONS support” mean to you and what do you think it would look like?

is ONS support some how structurally different than other kinds of support?

is a ONS fundamentally different than an affair?

The important question is do YOU see a fundamental difference between a ONS and an affair? Is one better or worse to you than the other? Is one more or less of a deal breaker for you than the other?

Help us help you. What kind of support/advice/guidance are you specifically wanting here when you say you want ONS support? 

What kind of support do you NOT want?


----------



## Woundidwife

oldshirt said:


> I’m not trying to be snarky here but asking a legit question- but what does “ONS support” mean to you and what do you think it would look like?
> 
> is ONS support some how structurally different than other kinds of support?
> 
> is a ONS fundamentally different than an affair?
> 
> The important question is do YOU see a fundamental difference between a ONS and an affair? Is one better or worse to you than the other? Is one more or less of a deal breaker for you than the other?
> 
> Help us help you. What kind of support/advice/guidance are you specifically wanting here when you say you want ONS support?
> 
> What kind of support do you NOT want?


I am sure all types of infidelity are not fundamentally different. Betrayal is betrayal, but without hearing from someone who has been there and done that, it seems to be more opinionated advice from a few very unfortunate and traumatized folks (who may only intend to punish every cheater—which I do not disagree with) than tried and true strategies. I was just hoping to hear from more folks who have been in my shoes—closer to my situation than many of the others. It doesn’t seem like there are many ONS survivors on here? Why not? Where are they? How have they moved on? Did they R or D? 

The rage is real. The resentment is real. Can these be overcome in a ONS situation? I don’t know. I sure as hell wish I did. Been doing a lot of reading.

What side of the fence do you find yourself on? Were you the BS or the WS? Maybe some advice for my WH would be helpful. He has been following along, though half (or more) of the posts get him riled up.

Thank you for any positive help. I just can’t handle any more negative things in my life right now. Too much anger and sadness for any one person.


----------



## snowbum

so he’s upset he’s called out for being a cheating scuzz. Get used to it. He should realize he’s a ****.


----------



## oldshirt

Woundidwife said:


> I am sure all types of infidelity are not fundamentally different. Betrayal is betrayal, but without hearing from someone who has been there and done that, it seems to be more opinionated advice from a few very unfortunate and traumatized folks (who may only intend to punish every cheater—which I do not disagree with) than tried and true strategies. I was just hoping to hear from more folks who have been in my shoes—closer to my situation than many of the others. It doesn’t seem like there are many ONS survivors on here? Why not? Where are they? How have they moved on? Did they R or D?
> 
> The rage is real. The resentment is real. Can these be overcome in a ONS situation? I don’t know. I sure as hell wish I did. Been doing a lot of reading.
> 
> What side of the fence do you find yourself on? Were you the BS or the WS? Maybe some advice for my WH would be helpful. He has been following along, though half (or more) of the posts get him riled up.
> 
> Thank you for any positive help. I just can’t handle any more negative things in my life right now. Too much anger and sadness for any one person.


ultimately it’s going to come down to what you can and what you cannot accept and tolerate.

it may take weeks, months or longer of soul to find your own clarity.

what I will add to the discussion in regards to a ONS vs an affair is in general women are better able to accept a ONS hook up vs an affair that involves feelings and meaningful time spent with the OW and especially spending money and gifts and marital resources on the OW.

women are typically able to get past an incident of “just sex” than one involving emotional connection, expenditure of resources etc.

in traditional societies and much of European cultures etc it is pretty much expected that men of means will have daliences and mistresses and what not. 

There wives may not necessarily like it per se, but where they draw the line is on the expenditure of marital resources, publicly embarrassing or humiliating them in any way and especially not getting anyone pregnant to where he will be paying on someone else’s children and taking food off the table of her own kids. And of course do not be bringing home any cooties.

I’m not saying this is or this is not what you should do.

but what I am suggesting is your confusion over your own head and heart on what you should do may be based on that since this does look like it was him just having some animalistic sex with some nameless, faceless skank in a bar - the things that you truly value deep down (his resources, provisioning, support, emotional investment, commitment to home and family etc) weren’t really all that compromised.

Your head is telling you that you should nuke everything from orbit because the Dbag cheated.

but your inner animal is telling you that your actual support and security and resources from him have not actually been compromised and if you dump his azz because of what he did with his junk, then you’re cutting off your nose to spite your own face when you in fact


I’m just kind of talking about the evolutionary instinctive aspect to try to explain your internal confusion and turmoil,, I am not addressing the morality or theological aspect at all.

you’ll have to address your own values and beliefs and moral compass on that aspect on whether you can live with a sinner or not. 

I think you’re on the right track to take some time to yourself to sit in the mountain too to clear your head and do some soul searching and hopefully get some clarity on how to proceed.

with your permission, I will PM you some info on an interesting thing I have come across lately that I think has some great promise as an activity to help clear your head and gave you the headspace to evaluate a problem and formulate a game plan going forward.

it has absolutely nothing to do with adultery per se but rather a mental exercise to help clear out the clutter and noise and help one focus and formulate a game plan for any topic that may be troubling them.


----------



## Woundidwife

In my book, there is no such thing as “just sex”. 

“Just sex” sounds so innocent and harmless. It is not. What happened to me WAS NOT INNOCENT. It was soul-crushing.

We were married and vowed to forsake all others (which specifically means NOT to share our bodies with anyone else). That is exactly what was promised and exactly what was broken.


----------



## Megaforce

oldshirt said:


> ultimately it’s going to come down to what you can and what you cannot accept and tolerate.
> 
> it may take weeks, months or longer of soul to find your own clarity.
> 
> what I will add to the discussion in regards to a ONS vs an affair is in general women are better able to accept a ONS hook up vs an affair that involves feelings and meaningful time spent with the OW and especially spending money and gifts and marital resources on the OW.
> 
> women are typically able to get past an incident of “just sex” than one involving emotional connection, expenditure of resources etc.
> 
> in traditional societies and much of European cultures etc it is pretty much expected that men of means will have daliences and mistresses and what not.
> 
> There wives may not necessarily like it per se, but where they draw the line is on the expenditure of marital resources, publicly embarrassing or humiliating them in any way and especially not getting anyone pregnant to where he will be paying on someone else’s children and taking food off the table of her own kids. And of course do not be bringing home any cooties.
> 
> I’m not saying this is or this is not what you should do.
> 
> but what I am suggesting is your confusion over your own head and heart on what you should do may be based on that since this does look like it was him just having some animalistic sex with some nameless, faceless skank in a bar - the things that you truly value deep down (his resources, provisioning, support, emotional investment, commitment to home and family etc) weren’t really all that compromised.
> 
> Your head is telling you that you should nuke everything from orbit because the Dbag cheated.
> 
> but your inner animal is telling you that your actual support and security and resources from him have not actually been compromised and if you dump his azz because of what he did with his junk, then you’re cutting off your nose to spite your own face when you in fact
> 
> 
> I’m just kind of talking about the evolutionary instinctive aspect to try to explain your internal confusion and turmoil,, I am not addressing the morality or theological aspect at all.
> 
> you’ll have to address your own values and beliefs and moral compass on that aspect on whether you can live with a sinner or not.
> 
> I think you’re on the right track to take some time to yourself to sit in the mountain too to clear your head and do some soul searching and hopefully get some clarity on how to proceed.
> 
> with your permission, I will PM you some info on an interesting thing I have come across lately that I think has some great promise as an activity to help clear your head and gave you the headspace to evaluate a problem and formulate a game plan going forward.
> 
> it has absolutely nothing to do with adultery per se but rather a mental exercise to help clear out the clutter and noise and help one focus and formulate a game plan for any topic that may be troubling them.


If you are looking for therapy, try finding a therapist with experience in betrayal trauma.

Also, a book I liked was by Susan Anderson, " The Journey from Abandonment to Healing". She describes the neurochemistry involved in betrayal and explains why it is different in folks with previous betrayal vs first timers( and, the past betrayal,need not, neccesarily, be infidelity).
I had two marriages where my XWs had affairs, plus a history of childhood sexual abuse. I am pretty sure this is why I never got over the cheating and knew I had to divorce.
After divorce, I was still relatively young and attractive. I had two very nice, beautiful girlfriends but I just could never make myself vulnerable enough for real intimacy. So, in fairness to them, I bowed out and have been on my own for a few years now. It is not a bad existence.


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> In my book, there is no such thing as “just sex”.
> 
> “Just sex” sounds so innocent and harmless. It is not. What happened to me WAS NOT INNOCENT. It was soul-crushing.
> 
> We were married and vowed to forsake all others (which specifically means NOT to share our bodies with anyone else). That is exactly what was promised and exactly what was broken.


This was true for me, as well. I have found, when I dated for a while post divorce, that there is a long continuum of how people view sex. To some it is very meaningful and sacred. At the other end,some folks view it as no more than a pleasurable bodily function, like having a satisfying bowel movement or eating a steak.
Obviously, I do not know your husband,,but based on his liaison with a stranger he had first met, one has to wonder where he lays on that continuum and are you compatible in that regard.
My first wife was a magna cum laude lawschool,graduate, daughter of a prominent surgeon. Yet, I found out she was having sex with random strangers, men and women. I was incredulous as no one that knew her( except one of her sisters, who busted her and advised me to divorce as this was not an aberration), would have ever suspected. 

I think you have to find out how he feels about the specialness of sex.


----------



## oldshirt

Woundidwife said:


> In my book, there is no such thing as “just sex”.
> 
> “Just sex” sounds so innocent and harmless. It is not. What happened to me WAS NOT INNOCENT. It was soul-crushing.
> 
> We were married and vowed to forsake all others (which specifically means NOT to share our bodies with anyone else). That is exactly what was promised and exactly what was broken.


Yes But would you concede that it is not as soul crushing than if it were sex with love and devotion and emotional investment and money expenditure and him deciding whether he was going to leave you for the OW or not?

At least here you are in the driver's seat and can determine your own future and your own course of action even if it means choosing between two sucky options.


----------



## QuietRiot

snowbum said:


> so he’s upset he’s called out for being a cheating scuzz. Get used to it. He should realize he’s a ****.


It doesn’t matter… you, me, anyone else that has real experience in what this feels like and sees her husband for what he is (through her own words!) is now on ignore. Who she is actually trying to put on ignore is herself. 

Good luck to her in her reconciliation with a controlling and selfish man. I think she will be back in years to come.


----------



## TexasMom1216

QuietRiot said:


> It doesn’t matter… you, me, anyone else that has real experience in what this feels like and sees her husband for what he is (through her own words!) is now on ignore. Who she is actually trying to put on ignore is herself.
> 
> Good luck to her in her reconciliation with a controlling and selfish man. I think she will be back in years to come.


I doubt it will be years. She’ll be back in about 6 months when she finds out he’s still seeing that “stranger” from the bar. Despite all of her weight loss.


----------



## Woundidwife

Megaforce said:


> This was true for me, as well. I have found, when I dated for a while post divorce, that there is a long continuum of how people view sex. To some it is very meaningful and sacred. At the other end,some folks view it as no more than a pleasurable bodily function, like having a satisfying bowel movement or eating a steak.
> Obviously, I do not know your husband,,but based on his liaison with a stranger he had first met, one has to wonder where he lays on that continuum and are you compatible in that regard.
> My first wife was a magna cum laude lawschool,graduate, daughter of a prominent surgeon. Yet, I found out she was having sex with random strangers, men and women. I was incredulous as no one that knew her( except one of her sisters, who busted her and advised me to divorce as this was not an aberration), would have ever suspected.
> 
> I think you have to find out how he feels about the specialness of sex.


I would say his experiences before me were not special, though he was stupid enough to believe one was at the time. So he wasn’t malicious, just a hormonally charged teenage boy. I think he learned about being used from that situation. (I knew him then. We were in high school and I already had a crush on him. She was a total sl**, which any female aged 10 to 99 within a 100 mile radius knew, but he was somehow blinded. As a high school “friend”, I tried to prevent that particular liason, but to no avail. That was his last “relationship” prior to us becoming a couple. THAT one hurt me for years, as at that time, I did believe it was “just sex” for him. We have had discussions since where he explained that he thought he meant something to her. That is all I can say about that before I piss myself off to start my day.)

Every experience with me has been special to both of us. So this EXTREMELY out of character event of supposedly “just sex” has really f**ked me up. Him too.

He has since learned that he is, was, and had been in a pretty solid depression all summer. This was not easily revealed to me—just last week maybe? Time has been a blur since d-day— as he has always been a proud man who never needed any help. Despite me asking him to get some for YEARS. He had had a near death experience this past spring. He thought no one (of his important circle) cared that he nearly died, and he realized that in his opinion, he had actually f**ed up everything in his life that he thought he had done right. He felt like a failure. In truth, he had done some things right, but for most of our marriage had always been a super angry person—from unresolved childhood feelings (he did have a crappy childhood and felt unloved until loving and being loved by me) that he never took advice from me to get counseling or seek anger management for—and being angry and controlling DID cause resentment from all those affected whom he loved most: me and our now grown children. None of his important relationships were as wonderful as he had always thought. I can see how this is all true. I just wish he had listened to me or told me that he felt unloved or like a failure. I would have suggested counseling again—though I had given up on trying to help his stubborn ass years ago when he wouldn’t listen. 

He is facing his demons now and in individual counseling for all of that.

Depression is a more understandable reason for why he let a skank make him “feel attractive and important” for literally a few minutes—not necessarily any more forgivable—as the end result was still destroying my life as I knew it and our life together, but more understandable at least. He IS human. One that put a landmine in my lap and pissed me off pretty good.

Now we are both depressed, and I am also angry. I am not generally an angry person, so that alone pisses me off—that I don’t have much control over my emotions. I am an avoider of conflict, but anger and conflict have become my new norm. I have also suppressed my negative emotions for so long, I had forgotten how to express anger, sadness, and pain. Excruciating reality, having to face this every day. 

So here we are. Separation begins today. It is scary for me. I woke up alone, and I need to figure myself out. Need to regain confidence in who I am. Need to be able to tell him where a bear shytes in the woods when I need to. Working on all that.

I still love him, and I am working towards an end goal of reconciliation, but I am taking time out for me as I really, really need it.

*Also, since we are supposed to have no contact, but I know he will still be reading this: I am hoping he will make an account and start his own thread. There are definitely folks on here who may be able to help him, with proven strategies, if he can just weed through the negative comments without letting them drag him down.[/I][/I]

ETA: No idea why some of that is in Italics. I couldn’t fix it.


----------



## BoSlander

snowbum said:


> If you reconcile, he will lose respect for you. You accepted the **** he served you. He was able to cheat and lie. Within hours you were changing to win him back. He will continue to control you. By staying your appearance of being perfect in a pidunk town will be untarnished. Mr Big Shot will still be cool guy. All wins for him. Do something good for you. Put yourself first for once.


*^^*
This.

A rather absurd amount of cheaters cheat a second or more times. @Woundidwife, you're playing a game of percentages and you're on the losing end.


----------



## snowbum

I’m not negative I’m objective. You state your husband is angry, controlling and depressed. You also state he said the random person he was willing to destroy you for was “your build aka chunky.” He realizes you aren’t running into j
His arms and now rather than say what he did was awful. No excuses, full stop he goes: I thought you were drinking ( when you weren’t), “I felt you didn’t love me enough” - also putting blame on you, “ she hit on me “ - even though he drove drunk to find a bar and find a chick, and now you’re not getting over this fast enough for him. 
you want strategies for him. There aren’t any. There are no strategies for being a patient,appreciative man. It’s called character.
You say he’s perfect I. “Every other way”.then you say he’s controlling, angry, depressed, resentful. And let’s alcohol impair his decisions.
Read that. That’s perfect?
You also separated weeks later. He thinks that ic you spend a week alone you’ll be back.
Other than $$$, what does he offer now? And ic it’s money that’s your deal. 
again, he should be triggered. He should face what he did, which you don’t want him to for fear of how it looks. If you take him back because of appearances you accept what he did and really should get over it. You have a choice: expect others to treat you right and live with the consequences or turn a blind eye. You get one chance


----------



## Woundidwife

Megaforce said:


> If you are looking for therapy, try finding a therapist with experience in betrayal trauma.
> 
> Also, a book I liked was by Susan Anderson, " The Journey from Abandonment to Healing". She describes the neurochemistry involved in betrayal and explains why it is different in folks with previous betrayal vs first timers( and, the past betrayal,need not, neccesarily, be infidelity).
> I had two marriages where my XWs had affairs, plus a history of childhood sexual abuse. I am pretty sure this is why I never got over the cheating and knew I had to divorce.
> After divorce, I was still relatively young and attractive. I had two very nice, beautiful girlfriends but I just could never make myself vulnerable enough for real intimacy. So, in fairness to them, I bowed out and have been on my own for a few years now. It is not a bad existence.


Thank you. I will read it.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> I am sure all types of infidelity are not fundamentally different. Betrayal is betrayal, but without hearing from someone who has been there and done that, it seems to be more opinionated advice from a few very unfortunate and traumatized folks (who may only intend to punish every cheater—which I do not disagree with) than tried and true strategies. I was just hoping to hear from more folks who have been in my shoes—closer to my situation than many of the others. It doesn’t seem like there are many ONS survivors on here? Why not? Where are they? How have they moved on? Did they R or D?
> 
> The rage is real. The resentment is real. Can these be overcome in a ONS situation? I don’t know. I sure as hell wish I did. Been doing a lot of reading.
> 
> What side of the fence do you find yourself on? Were you the BS or the WS? Maybe some advice for my WH would be helpful. He has been following along, though half (or more) of the posts get him riled up.
> 
> Thank you for any positive help. I just can’t handle any more negative things in my life right now. Too much anger and sadness for any one person.


OK. Now we're getting somewhere.

At your request, I'll go with the ONS assumption.

I'll also say that a ONS is a very very big deal. Its like saying, "I only stabbed them in the back ine time," or, "I only fired one round center mass," you get the idea. Its terrible. My CW said that it was only once and I never really believed her, but who knows? Even if it *was* once, *one* grenade tossed into our marriage was enough....left me walking wounded for years.

Can you both recover and rebuild? Yes. Yes you can. Ive seen it happen in others. Hard work. Traveling the well worn path that successfully R'd couples have trod. There are no shortcuts. 2-5 years is the generally held estimate for majorative R to be achieved and I believe it.

So, Mr WW is reading this thread. Good. *Very* good. I apologize in advance for the intentional threadjack to follow:

Mr. WW, as youve already seen, youll be reading input from all over the spectrum of infidelity survivors ranging from the hard core, "burn em at the stake" crowd to the more moderate voices among us, The Betrayed. When you get "riled" is the time you need to dig the deepest. What is it in you that triggered that "riling"? Find the emotional "tap root" of that response and examine it hard.

Mrs. WW came here in turmoil. Her whole life turned upside down. Foundational truths and understandings that she held to for decades have been demolished. She has been traumatized like nothing shes ever felt. There is nothing new in her response. All Betrayeds have felt this to one extent or another. All I can tell you it that it hurts to the core and actually causes physical pain..

Shes now taking time for herself. To breath. To get just a bit of personal recovery under her belt. To try and dial in what her new reality truly looks like for her future. She needs to heal. Let her do so and honor her wishes for no contact.

She has also, amazingly, already said she desires to reconcile with you, or at least attempt to do so, and has asked that we direct our input from that perspective and I said I would do so.

If there is one thing I could recommend you do during this time of seperation is to immerse yourself in the writings of successfully R'd wayward spouses. I have learned much from their threads. There are a number of them here at TAM. One that Ive appreaciated and have read as much as I can of her threads is Mrs John Adams (had a brief affair many years ago). Other TAM'ers may have more good recos for you as well. Some good ones over at SI would be Hikingout, Daddydom, & MrsWallopped. You can learn a ton from their writing about their journey. Soak it up and learn. Specifically focus on what they now understand to be *true* remorse. This will be key for your R to be successful.

You too need healing. Mrs WW has filled us in a bit on some of the circumstances surrounding your infidelity, and I hope you get the therapy you need to deal with these issues so that when the time comes to attempt true R, youll have a better handle on what went wrong in you that has the potential to sabatoge your efforts once again. Please let Mrs WW determine the timing of that attempt.

Finally, why not open your own thread? Let other Betrayeds and Waywards respond and give you input. You can filter as needed ("chew the meat, spit the bones") but I think, on the whole, itd be helpful.

Good luck to you both. I truly hope you can be successful where I failed.

ETA: I know TAM has something similar, but itd be good for you both to read here.


----------



## Woundidwife

oldshirt said:


> Yes But would you concede that it is not as soul crushing than if it were sex with love and devotion and emotional investment and money expenditure and him deciding whether he was going to leave you for the OW or not?
> 
> At least here you are in the driver's seat and can determine your own future and your own course of action even if it means choosing between two sucky options.


Unfair question. I am devastated and do not wish to compare my pain to others, however your point may be the only reason some folks believe the infidelity in a marriage destroyed by a ONS may be more salvageable than full blown affairs.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> OK. Now we're getting somewhere.
> 
> At your request, I'll go with the ONS assumption.
> 
> I'll also say that a ONS is a very very big deal. Its like saying, "I only stabbed them in the back ine time," or, "I only fired one round center mass," you get the idea. Its terrible. My CW said that it was only once and I never really believed her, but who knows? Even if it *was* once, *one* grenade tossed into our marriage was enough....left me walking wounded for years.
> 
> Can you both recover and rebuild? Yes. Yes you can. Ive seen it happen in others. Hard work. Traveling the well worn path that successfully R'd couples have trod. There are no shortcuts. 2-5 years is the generally held estimate for majorative R to be achieved and I believe it.
> 
> So, Mr WW is reading this thread. Good. *Very* good. I apologize in advance for the intentional threadjack to follow:
> 
> Mr. WW, as youve already seen, youll be reading input from all over the spectrum of infidelity survivors ranging from the hard core, "burn em at the stake" crowd to the more moderate voices among us, The Betrayed. When you get "riled" is the time you need to dig the deepest. What is it in you that triggered that "riling"? Find the emotional "tap root" of that response and examine it hard.
> 
> Mrs. WW came here in turmoil. Her whole life turned upside down. Foundational truths and understandings that she held to for decades have been demolished. She has been traumatized like nothing shes ever felt. There is nothing new in her response. All Betrayeds have felt this to one extent or another. All I can tell you it that it hurts to the core and actually causes physical pain..
> 
> Shes now taking time for herself. To breath. To get just a bit of personal recovery under her belt. To try and dial in what her new reality truly looks like for her future. She needs to heal. Let her do so and honor her wishes for no contact.
> 
> She has also, amazingly, already said she desires to reconcile with you, or at least attempt to do so, and has asked that we direct our input from that perspective and I said I would do so.
> 
> If there is one thing I could recommend you do during this time of seperation is to immerse yourself in the writings of successfully R'd wayward spouses. I have learned much from their threads. There are a number of them here at TAM. One that Ive appreaciated and have read as much as I can of her threads is Mrs John Adams (had a brief affair many years ago). Other TAM'ers may have more good recos for you as well. Some good ones over at SI would be Hikingout, Daddydom, & MrsWallopped. You can learn a ton from their writing about their journey. Soak it up and learn. Specifically focus on what they now understand to be *true* remorse. This will be key for your R to be successful.
> 
> You too need healing. Mrs WW has filled us in a bit on some of the circumstances surrounding your infidelity, and I hope you get the therapy you need to deal with these issues so that when the time comes to attempt true R, youll have a better handle on what went wrong in you that has the potential to sabatoge your efforts once again. Please let Mrs WW determine the timing of that attempt.
> 
> Finally, why not open your own thread? Let other Betrayeds and Waywards respond and give you input. You can filter as needed ("chew the meat, spit the bones") but I think, on the whole, itd be helpful.
> 
> Good luck to you both. I truly hope you can be successful where I failed.
> 
> ETA: I know TAM has something similar, but itd be good for you both to read here.


Thank you. We have actually both read that already, but it might be a good refresher for my WH.


----------



## Woundidwife

oldshirt said:


> ultimately it’s going to come down to what you can and what you cannot and can tolerate
> 
> what I will add to the discussion in regards to a ONS vs an affair is in general women are better able to accept a ONS hook up
> 
> women are typically able to get past an incident of “just sex”
> 
> but what I am suggesting is your confusion over your own head and heart on what you should do may be based on that since this does look like it was him just having some animalistic sex with some nameless, faceless skank in a bar - the things that you truly value deep down (his resources, provisioning, support, emotional investment, commitment to home and family etc) weren’t really all that compromised.
> 
> Your head is telling you that you should nuke everything from orbit because the Dbag cheated.


Sorry. I don’t give a f*** about what goes on in traditional societies. That shyte doesn’t happen in my house. Not “animalistic sex with some nameless, faceless skank in a bar”. NOT PERMITTED or excused. 

We had and signed a legally binding agreement that this WOULDN’T happen. I know myself and have a real problem with this. This IS MY DEALBREAKER. I can tell you that before this happened, I would have told anyone in my situation to “nuke everything from orbit because the Dbag cheated” just like you said. This is putting every fiber of my being to the test. I hate it. He says he would forgive me for the same, but I am not so sure about that. I am pretty sure he believes this only because he wants my forgiveness and that is what he wishes I would do.

I also don’t care that “in general women are better able to accept a ONS hook up”, because I am not most women. I have self respect and dignity, (also jealousy and new to the mix: rage and resentment) all of which are causing the internal war with myself.

So I am tasked with examining a scale with my own values (including his very heavy betrayal) on one side and all of the things you mentioned that I did/still do? value on the other. The problem is that they are equal at the moment, and I need to learn how much I actually still value those things now.

My WH knows that no matter what he does, I believe it all comes down to exactly what you said: what I “can and cannot tolerate”.

Hopefully time and distance will help me figure that out.


----------



## snowbum

Woundidwife said:


> Sorry. I don’t give a f*** about what goes on in traditional societies. That shyte doesn’t happen in my house. Not “animalistic sex with some nameless, faceless skank in a bar”. NOT PERMITTED or excused.
> 
> We had and signed a legally binding agreement that this WOULDN’T happen. I know myself and have a real problem with this. This IS MY DEALBREAKER. I can tell you that before this happened, I would have told anyone in my situation to “nuke everything from orbit because the Dbag cheated” just like you said. This is putting every fiber of my being to the test. I hate it. He says he would forgive me for the same, but I am not so sure about that. I am pretty sure he believes this only because he wants my forgiveness and that is what he wishes I would do.
> 
> I also don’t care that “in general women are better able to accept a ONS hook up”, because I am not most women. I have self respect and dignity, (also jealousy and new to the mix: rage and resentment) which is what is causing the internal war with myself.
> 
> So I am tasked with examining a scale with my own values (including his very heavy betrayal) on one side and all of the things you mentioned that I did/do? value on the other. The problem is that they are equal at the moment and I need to learn how much I actually valued the multiple things.
> 
> No matter what WH does, I believe it all comes down to exactly what you said: It all comes down to what I “can and cannot tolerate”.
> 
> Hopefully time and distance will help me figure that out.


He’s saying he’d forgive you because he doesn’t have to follow through. It’s easy to say what you’d do to something that’s not happening.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> OK. Now we're getting somewhere.
> 
> At your request, I'll go with the ONS assumption.
> 
> I'll also say that a ONS is a very very big deal. Its like saying, "I only stabbed them in the back ine time," or, "I only fired one round center mass," you get the idea. Its terrible. My CW said that it was only once and I never really believed her, but who knows? Even if it *was* once, *one* grenade tossed into our marriage was enough....left me walking wounded for years.
> 
> Can you both recover and rebuild? Yes. Yes you can. Ive seen it happen in others. Hard work. Traveling the well worn path that successfully R'd couples have trod. There are no shortcuts. 2-5 years is the generally held estimate for majorative R to be achieved and I believe it.
> 
> So, Mr WW is reading this thread. Good. *Very* good. I apologize in advance for the intentional threadjack to follow:
> 
> Mr. WW, as youve already seen, youll be reading input from all over the spectrum of infidelity survivors ranging from the hard core, "burn em at the stake" crowd to the more moderate voices among us, The Betrayed. When you get "riled" is the time you need to dig the deepest. What is it in you that triggered that "riling"? Find the emotional "tap root" of that response and examine it hard.
> 
> Mrs. WW came here in turmoil. Her whole life turned upside down. Foundational truths and understandings that she held to for decades have been demolished. She has been traumatized like nothing shes ever felt. There is nothing new in her response. All Betrayeds have felt this to one extent or another. All I can tell you it that it hurts to the core and actually causes physical pain..
> 
> Shes now taking time for herself. To breath. To get just a bit of personal recovery under her belt. To try and dial in what her new reality truly looks like for her future. She needs to heal. Let her do so and honor her wishes for no contact.
> 
> She has also, amazingly, already said she desires to reconcile with you, or at least attempt to do so, and has asked that we direct our input from that perspective and I said I would do so.
> 
> If there is one thing I could recommend you do during this time of seperation is to immerse yourself in the writings of successfully R'd wayward spouses. I have learned much from their threads. There are a number of them here at TAM. One that Ive appreaciated and have read as much as I can of her threads is Mrs John Adams (had a brief affair many years ago). Other TAM'ers may have more good recos for you as well. Some good ones over at SI would be Hikingout, Daddydom, & MrsWallopped. You can learn a ton from their writing about their journey. Soak it up and learn. Specifically focus on what they now understand to be *true* remorse. This will be key for your R to be successful.
> 
> You too need healing. Mrs WW has filled us in a bit on some of the circumstances surrounding your infidelity, and I hope you get the therapy you need to deal with these issues so that when the time comes to attempt true R, youll have a better handle on what went wrong in you that has the potential to sabatoge your efforts once again. Please let Mrs WW determine the timing of that attempt.
> 
> Finally, why not open your own thread? Let other Betrayeds and Waywards respond and give you input. You can filter as needed ("chew the meat, spit the bones") but I think, on the whole, itd be helpful.
> 
> Good luck to you both. I truly hope you can be successful where I failed.
> 
> ETA: I know TAM has something similar, but itd be good for you both to read here.


He won’t open his own thread, because of the sentiments on the “threadjacks and assassination” thread. I wish he would though, even if it were on another site. 

NOW he is trying to be the positive person that I (mostly) always was. No negativity, positive actions only, and attempting to move forward in the only way he knows how. I appreciate what he is trying to do—just don’t know how it will end up yet. (And I definitely would have appreciated it much more 3 months ago, before he f***ed the skank in the first place!)


----------



## Woundidwife

Also, I have blocked out TexasMom, Snowbum, and one more that I do not remember. I have no idea what they have been saying, (and folks have been responding to) and THAT is positively blissful. 😁


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> He won’t open his own thread, because of the sentiments on the “threadjacks and assassination” thread. I wish he would though, even if it were on another site.
> 
> NOW he is trying to be the positive person that I (mostly) always was. No negativity, positive actions only, and attempting to move forward in the only way he knows how. I appreciate what he is trying to do—just don’t know how it will end up yet. (And I definitely would have appreciated it much more 3 months ago, before he f***ed the skank in the first place!)


He could post over at SI and put up a stop sign on his post in the Wayward section. That way oyly other Waywards could respond....no embittered Betrayeds. Ive read a lot of great posts and responses over there.

*"And I definitely would have appreciated it much more 3 months ago, before he f***ed the skank in the first place*!" This brought a wry, slightly cynical smile to my face with the thought, "Dont we all?!"(no disrespect intended...just a dark camaraderie). You are not alone in this experience ma'am (sadly for us all).

So, now's when I relate some of the other mistakes I made in my failed R attempt.

1. I went too fast. Just wanted it to be over. To get back to where I thought we were. Big mistake.

2. I rugswept. Didnt want to dig. Left a lot of stones unturned. Bigger mistake.

3. I smoked a lot of "hopium" in my pipedreams. I just hoped itd all fade. Go away. Leave me alone. Yeh, not wired that way. Not only did it not go away, but due to #1 and #2 it boomeranged on me and when it did so, the feelings were magnified and resentment was powerful.

4. She did much the same. Got frustrated when it was brought up, even years later in passing. She was NOT in true remorse. True remorse, as explained by many waywards in R, is exemplified by a willingness to be present, be accountable, ready to discuss anything a BS needs to talk about at any time no matter how long it takes to do so. The lack of this willingness on my fCW's part was a severe drag on our progress, or lack thereof.

5. I stuck it out in private misery. No one outside of myself, my CW, my exBF, therapist and the friend that discovered the infidelity knew about it and I kept it that way. Big mistake as well. Should have reached out to trusted family and friends, but didnt. Shame and pride played a part for sure but it all bubbled like a seething toxic stew in my soul for years. Its a wonder I didnt get an ulcer (did have other gut problems as a result though).

I will also note that my FoO issues played a big part in the way I (mis)handled everything. I grew up with a lot of trauma. Had an extremely unstable/mentally ill parent who was in and out of treatment. Other parent was a complete doormat. Terrible combo (tyrant/servant). We moved numerous times (10X in 12 years of school) all over. There was frequent verbal/physical abuse. Homeless for a while. My learned coping mechanism was to minimize/rugsweep/move on as best I could. Survive. I had to unlearm this through years of therapy. I now hit things head on. I communicate. Im thorough. I discuss my needs. I get hurts out in the open. I minimize nothing (my wife would probably roll her eyes at this and smile... she too is a survivor of a brutal betrayal).

So..... ww....dont be me (back then). As you process everything through this much needed seperation, maybe journal thoughts and feelings. Keep the journal with you. Get it all out. Have good talk with any trusted friends, family and of course, therapist. Embrace the tough questions. Be as thorough as you can. Get into the corners and crevices.

When time comes to talk again with you CH, refer to your writings a deal with each point. Guage his willingness to be forthcoming as you will need it now, and in the future.

Strength, healing and clarity to you ma'am.


----------



## TexasMom1216

snowbum said:


> He’s saying he’d forgive you because he doesn’t have to follow through. It’s easy to say what you’d do to something that’s not happening.


Exactly. Smart money says he would not forgive. It’s too bad that she only wants to hear that everything is fine. “It was different with you cause I lurve you.” Hopium is a helluva drug. Staying is permission to continue cheating. It shows the cheater they can do what they want and she will cry and pout for a while but there will be no real consequences. 🥺


----------



## oldshirt

Woundidwife said:


> Sorry. I don’t give a f*** about what goes on in traditional societies. That shyte doesn’t happen in my house. Not “animalistic sex with some nameless, faceless skank in a bar”. NOT PERMITTED or excused.
> 
> We had and signed a legally binding agreement that this WOULDN’T happen. I know myself and have a real problem with this. This IS MY DEALBREAKER. I can tell you that before this happened, I would have told anyone in my situation to “nuke everything from orbit because the Dbag cheated” just like you said. This is putting every fiber of my being to the test. I hate it. He says he would forgive me for the same, but I am not so sure about that. I am pretty sure he believes this only because he wants my forgiveness and that is what he wishes I would do.
> 
> I also don’t care that “in general women are better able to accept a ONS hook up”, because I am not most women. I have self respect and dignity, (also jealousy and new to the mix: rage and resentment) all of which are causing the internal war with myself.
> 
> So I am tasked with examining a scale with my own values (including his very heavy betrayal) on one side and all of the things you mentioned that I did/still do? value on the other. The problem is that they are equal at the moment, and I need to learn how much I actually still value those things now.
> 
> My WH knows that no matter what he does, I believe it all comes down to exactly what you said: what I “can and cannot tolerate”.
> 
> Hopefully time and distance will help me figure that out.


Yeah ultimately only you can decide what will be best for you in the long run.

individual therapy may be able to help you peel back some of the layers and help you identify some of your own priorities and hierarchy of needs.

But even then in the end no one can tell you what to do and you will have to decide what’s best for you based on your own temperaments, values and well being.

if you need space and to unplug and clear your head of all the background noise and pressure from others that can that have their own agendas, then so be it.

Those others may be various friends and relatives, clergy, counselors, your husband and even us her on TAM. Everyone has their own piece of the pie. 

But in the end there is only one person that you have to live with for the rest of your days and that is yourself. There for in the end, you have to do what’s best for you and you are the only one that can determine that.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> I know myself and have a real problem with this. This IS MY DEALBREAKER.


I am on ignore, obviously. But maybe one day you will come back here and read this. You’ve now said this at least 5 times.

You know exactly where you stand, you’ve always known, you’re just completely denying what you already know in order to reconcile. That along with the fact your H is still minimizing your pain and feels entitled to reconciliation is why this will never be unicorns and rainbows for you.



deal-break·er

_noun_
noun: *dealbreaker*

(in business and politics) a factor or issue which, if unresolved during negotiations, would cause one party to withdraw from a deal.


Tell me how one considers something a deal breaker, and then continues forward with the obligation? He did the dealbreaker, and you aren’t withdrawing from the deal. That’s where your turmoil is.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Woundidwife said:


> My husband admitted to a ONS very recently. He has, until this, been the most honest, reliable and trustworthy man I have ever known. I have known about it for about 3 weeks (of PTSD Hell: intrusive thoughts, nightmares, paranoia, insomnia, diarrhea, etc.), and I do not even know how to begin process this situation.
> 
> We were married very young (I was 18 and he was 19). I have never had sex with another person. He had several partners before we were married and now this random stranger. I thought we were married “happily enough”, but if I had a good enough reason to leave, I could leave him…and the one he provided me was a doozy.
> 
> The circumstances are seriously UNBELIEVABLE:
> Two days before our 27th wedding anniversary, I was out of town for work. He was upset with me on a bedtime phone call, so he drove the 20 minutes into town to a bar at about 10:30pm, where as TOGETHER, we normally LEAVE places to be HOME by 10:00pm, because he always has to get up early for work the next day. According to him, he was drunk before he even left for the bar. He claims that he “didn’t know that purchasing drinks for this woman meant that he wanted to sleep with her”. He also “didn’t realize” that she was interested in sex until he said he was leaving and she asked if he wanted to go somewhere. He asked what she meant (yeah right!) and she had already been rubbing his inner thigh, but now touched his junk and told him he knew what she meant. He then said that he knew of a place and told her to follow him! Then they both drove 10 minutes away from the bar, where they had UNPROTECTED sex in her car in a deserted parking lot.
> 
> He told me all of this A MONTH AFTER it happened. (The timing was suspicious, but he says it had been eating him up all month and he “never found a good time to tell me”. I had suddenly been experiencing something like the WORST yeast infection of my life that I couldn’t shake...We have since both been tested—all clear—a month AFTER THE FACT. He tested BEFORE he told me so that he “would have all the answers for my questions when he told me, which means everyone in our doctor’s office knew before I did, and before I was tested!!!)
> 
> I did leave him the day he told me. I stayed with a relative for 3 days. I returned home on the premise that he agreed to leave. He has been agreeable. Because of his efforts, I allowed him to stay and though I am abusing him often with my angry words, it is also nice to let him hold me from time to time. This is messing with my head though. The one who ran my heart through a meat-grinder is the same one comforting me. (Is that screwed up or what?!)
> 
> There is no way to find this woman and I am severely angry and obsessed. He makes no excuses, says he has no idea why he did this, and that it has nothing to do with me. (Pretty hard to believe in light of the circumstances.) He is remorseful and just wants me to heal and return to our now “better than before” relationship.
> 
> I am just not sure what I really want or whether I can forgive this at all. As I said, I have never had sex with anyone else and have always been curious, but have not acted on my curiosity. He says the sex was meaningless (which makes no sense if the same act is supposedly meaningful with me). I almost feel that if I TRY to have “meaningless sex” with another man and CANNOT go through with it, (which I don’t think I even could), that means he is the most despicable pig on the planet to have been able to do that to me, and I should just leave him even though he really is trying to make amends. If I COULD go through with it, that might mean that it is just human nature and that I could forgive him. He had given me his blessing, but fears that I will find that the grass TRULY IS greener on the other side, which I doubt. I think I the experiment would only teach me that I probably cannot and should not forgive him.
> 
> We are already in counseling, both together and separately.
> 
> I am thinking a short, scheduled separation might remind me of the person I used to be before all of this and what I now am beginning to see was our depressing marriage.
> 
> Unfortunately, I feel like I don’t really have a choice but to forgive him. I don’t know any other life, and maybe the grass is worse on the other side, but I never had the chance to even sample it, so I wouldn’t know if I am missing anything or if I already have the best option for me—despite his horrible and DEBILITATING betrayal. I do believe that because of my COMPLETE DEVASTATION I do still love him; but if I want to stay with him, is it because I do still love him and WANT to be with him or because I DON’T KNOW HOW to live without him? How will I even know? I do not think I can make an informed decision. I am not even sure I CAN forgive this!!!!!
> 
> Any advice?


You do know he's probably lying about her touching his junk and being the one to initiate things? The only women I've ever known that might do that to a stranger were prostitutes (or men)and I've only actually seen it one time in public and she was a call girl.

He probably ordered himself a call girl online and met her there.


----------



## TexasMom1216

QuietRiot said:


> Tell me how one considers something a deal breaker, and then continues forward with the obligation?


If she forgives and forgets, cheating is NOT a dealbreaker, clearly. And if cheating isn't a dealbreaker, then it's tacitly allowed. This is like watching a slow motion car wreck, and this poor woman is letting herself be betrayed over and over, first with the cheating and now with being made to feel lesser than the other woman.


----------



## *Deidre*

I'm a little lost in what transpired since I was last in this thread, but are you still going through with the separation, @Woundidwife ? Or are you separated? I couldn't tell over the past two pages, if that may have changed.

The only thing I'll say is it's way too soon to see if your husband is changing or is capable of truly changing. Changing meaning, become the husband you deserve. And also becoming the man he should also desire for himself. It's way too soon, but it's not uncommon for betrayed spouses to go through this panic and fear and end up believing the wayward spouse's promises too soon. Only time will tell you if he's changed. He has to do the work...not you, picking up the pieces and helping him limp along doing the work. He has to do it, on his own. That's the only way it will last.

If you have gone through with the separation, I'd limit how often you see and speak with your husband. Just my opinion, fwiw. You will not gain true perspective if your husband is bowing down to you, because he feels guilty and is afraid of losing you. (which is also VERY common behaviors with wayward spouses)

Just be cautious...


----------



## oldshirt

Woundidwife said:


> He won’t open his own thread, because of the sentiments on the “threadjacks and assassination” thread. I wish he would though, even if it were on another site.


I actually agree with him that he will not receive much if any useful input here.

if there are one or two poster that have something useful, they will quickly be drowned out by all the villagers storming the castle with their pitchforks and torches calling for him to be publicly stoned in the town square at high noon.

for his issues, he would be better served by a secular, western, evidence-based professional that works with infidelity that can help him understand why he did what he did, how to best repair the damage and how to best insure it doesn’t happen again.

most WS’s that try to post here often end up just being told how bad they are and people calling for their heads on a platter rather than much useful information on how to repair damage and go forward.

also you need to be aware that a lot of the posters will tell him to “do the right thing” and for him to divorce you.

if you are leaning towards reconciliation, I’m not sure if villagers with torches and pitchforks telling him what a monster he is and telling him to let you go we be what you want.

so again it comes down to what you want deep down and what will be in your best interests.

if you want people to cheer the hero and boo the villain, then yes he will definitely be boo’d and put in his place if he posts his side here.

if you want him to have some actual self reflection and constructive guidance on what’s best to repair the damage and how to best do the heavy lifting required going forward - I’m no so sure of the benefit.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> Thanks for playing along, but where we live (not a city), that isn’t even an option. Skanks, however, ARE EVERYWHERE!
> Now _ignored_


This is so delusional. It’s the skanks, not the idiot you married. 

*I am now ignoring this entire thread, this poster is beyond reason and will reap the rewards of this thinking for the long term. Real prize of a man you’ve got there.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Woundidwife said:


> Thanks for playing along, but where we live (not a city), that isn’t even an option. Skanks, however, ARE EVERYWHERE!
> Now _ignored_


Wow, you are naive. There are prostitutes everywhere and especially out in the country where there's no place else for them to work.


----------



## TexasMom1216

QuietRiot said:


> This is so delusional. It’s the skanks, not the idiot you married.
> 
> *I am now ignoring this entire thread, this poster is beyond reason and will reap the rewards of this thinking for the long term. Real prize of a man you’ve got there.


I wish we had that option to ignore the thread. I'm not even mad at her for being so unreasonable and deliberately ignoring her husband has done anything wrong, it's just so SAD. But you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped.


----------



## TXTrini

@ Woundidwife 
Wow, 20 pages, and you're still trying to make yourself feel better about the crappy situation forced upon you. Most of the people who've been in your shoes or guided many of us through our own ****ty deals have fallen away from this thread, and you've ignored the few who care enough about you to keep showing up.

Btw, one of the people telling you what you want to hear hasn't exactly spent his marriage in a way you would approve. So it suits his purpose to feed your wish to live in denial of reality. Be honest; cheating is not a dealbreaker. I get that change is hard and scary, and it is risky, especially in these times to alienate a good financial provider. The reality is you will be trading your integrity to avoid downgrading your lifestyle. Stability, trust, and respect are already gone; your turmoil is a symptom of your struggle to accept that. 

I suppose you'll also plop me on ignore now, and that's fine. When you're back in a few months-years feeling like an idiot for wasting more of your time bending backward to fix something your WH broke, you may not have many people interested in helping you, given your arrogant, combative attitude. 

I get that this is probably a coping mechanism to preserve what is left of your dignity as you struggle to accept less than you deserve. I wish you the best, and hope you find what you're looking for. Good luck to you.


----------



## snowbum

Your husband is a lucky man. He can cheat all he wants.


----------



## TexasMom1216

snowbum said:


> Your husband is a lucky man. He can cheat all he wants.


Yeah, she will be VERY popular here. So would her husband, if he started posting here.


----------



## Woundidwife

*Deidre* said:


> I'm a little lost in what transpired since I was last in this thread, but are you still going through with the separation, @Woundidwife ? Or are you separated? I couldn't tell over the past two pages, if that may have changed.
> 
> The only thing I'll say is it's way too soon to see if your husband is changing or is capable of truly changing. Changing meaning, become the husband you deserve. And also becoming the man he should also desire for himself. It's way too soon, but it's not uncommon for betrayed spouses to go through this panic and fear and end up believing the wayward spouse's promises too soon. Only time will tell you if he's changed. He has to do the work...not you, picking up the pieces and helping him limp along doing the work. He has to do it, on his own. That's the only way it will last.
> 
> If you have gone through with the separation, I'd limit how often you see and speak with your husband. Just my opinion, fwiw. You will not gain true perspective if your husband is bowing down to you, because he feels guilty and is afraid of losing you. (which is also VERY common behaviors with wayward spouses)
> 
> Just be cautious...


Just started separation on Monday.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

DosEquis said:


> OK, just remembered a great ONS account with successful R. Its in 3 parts:
> 
> Here
> 
> Here
> 
> and
> 
> Here


First off, it wasn't really a one night stand. It was a 2 month EA that culminated in sex at a hotel. Also, I see this was a a SAHD that was a near perfect husband from the account of the WW, yet the hot and sexy guy at work was too much to resist. I wonder if they are still together 3 years later?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Woundidwife said:


> I am sure all types of infidelity are not fundamentally different. Betrayal is betrayal, but without hearing from someone who has been there and done that, it seems to be more opinionated advice from a few very unfortunate and traumatized folks (who may only intend to punish every cheater—which I do not disagree with) than tried and true strategies. I was just hoping to hear from more folks who have been in my shoes—closer to my situation than many of the others. It doesn’t seem like there are many ONS survivors on here? Why not? Where are they? How have they moved on? Did they R or D?
> 
> The rage is real. The resentment is real. Can these be overcome in a ONS situation? I don’t know. I sure as hell wish I did. Been doing a lot of reading.
> 
> What side of the fence do you find yourself on? Were you the BS or the WS? Maybe some advice for my WH would be helpful. He has been following along, though half (or more) of the posts get him riled up.
> 
> Thank you for any positive help. I just can’t handle any more negative things in my life right now. Too much anger and sadness for any one person.


There are many betrayed spouses giving you advice. I don't understand why it is so important that their situation involved a ONS. In the end it really doesn't make much difference. You are thinking it is unique because of a list of various circumstances that you feel are mitigating the infidelity. But are they really? For one you have no idea if what you know is the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And you seem to be doing mental gymnastic to make you feel better about moving towards reconciling. You disregard or get angry at all the advice you are getting that doesn't fit with the narrative in your head. I understand you don't want more negativity, but it isn't MORE negativity. It is just them trying to get you to understand the negativity already foisted on you by your husband and his inability to remain faithful to you. They just don't want you to put your head in the sand and rug sweep this only to regret it later.


----------



## NicoleCJ

WW, 
I‘ve not been able to be on here much and need to go back and read through this thread again. I’m sure i’m missing some key info, but I did see in the last couple pages that you are officially separating. If not permanently then for an allotted amount of time. This is good. It’s something I wish I would’ve done sooner. It’s only been the last year that I’ve finally told him to leave. We’ve had several 3 to 4 week periods apart and it’s been very helpful in lowering my stress/anxiety level, which is always high when he’s around. Just focusing on something else and kind of taking a breather helps me rejuvenate and gather strength back.
It is scary though. It’s a road full of unknown curves and turns, but you CAN do it. It will make you stronger, more confident and secure in the fact that you, if you so chose, can survive on your own without your husband if you ultimately D. I’m not suggesting that that’s what you should do. I’m just saying you need to make that decision from a place of strength. You don’t have that strength yet. Your betrayal is still so new and you still have so many ups and downs of the emotional roller coaster to experience yet. Making the decision to R or D just can’t be properly made this soon.
Your husband has a lot learn still. You’re both doing the right things though. I struggled to get mine into counseling. After several years he finally joined my counseling sessions and met with her one on one for some on his own. It was very good for him. 
The one thing separation will do for you is give you clarity of thought. Though I do think he needs to see the pain he caused, It’ll give you time to be sad and angry and grieve in your own way too without his influence causing you to hold back. That’s something I had a hard time doing when my husband was around all the time. He became very clingy and wanted to be together 24/7 to desperately try and fix the damage he caused. I, in my need to make him happy, held within a lot of my emotions in the beginning. That was incredibly damaging now looking back. The best thing we could’ve done was have it out every day for as long as it took to get all of it out of my system. The pain, the anger, the shock, the rage, the injustice… all of it. I held so much of that in, desperately trying to preserve our marriage and to satisfy my need to not make waves or see him upset or sad. I worried more about how bad he felt about himself that I neglected what I needed to do to try and heal. It was horribly toxic and we made some major mistakes by allowing that to happen. 
I also worried what others would think or find out. We’re not in a small town per se, but we are both well known where we live. It would be quite a shock for our wider circle of friends and acquaintances to learn what was truly going on behind closed doors. We have a second home across state so when I’ve asked him to leave for a while it’s not looked at as strange. We have always split time back and forth so no one thinks it’s anything but normal. If you were to ask anyone they would say we have the perfect marriage. We are a great couple, are so compatible and get along so well. I don’t think anyone would truly believe that he would ever have cheated on me that I would find myself unable to get out of bed for days at a time fighting suicidal thoughts. Only my sister and two of my friends, one of whom was the one that the OW bragged to about the affair, know what is going on. As far as I know, he hasn’t told any of his close friends. It’s made it quite hard for me to do what is best in my healing while worrying about what would happen if anyone found out. And I do still worry about that. So I understand trying to protect that. I know though, at some point, I’m going to have to let that go if I am to heal properly. I just haven’t figured out how to do that yet.
I think were pretty similar in our personality traits. I would have to go back and double check, but I remember you stating a few of yours that I could relate to. I’m definitely conflict avoidant. I’m a people pleaser. I am a nurturer and want to take care of everyone around me. I did so at the expense of not taking care of myself or taking care of the things that I need to do to be a healthy person. When I married my husband I gave up many things to devote myself to that marriage. My vows were sacred. I took the blame for everything that was wrong in our relationship and I was the one who always apologized for everything. Even if it wasn’t my fault or fault should have been shared. In my mind we lived a fairytale and had the perfect relationship with just a few tiny normal little flaws. I still believe that our flaws were normal. But I know now that he wasn’t perfect. He was flawed and I took on those flaws to maintain the fairytale. This is not to say that I didn’t have my own, I did! Those flaws enabled to me to sit and watch his betrayal unfold in front of my eyes and pretend I didn’t see it because it couldn’t be true. Not him! I still have a hard time believing that he was capable of doing what I know now he did.
Sorry this is so long. I just want you to not make mistakes that I made. Separation is good. You need to know you can survive on your own. You need to sit and think about what details you need to know that you feel you don’t have about his ONS to be able to move forward in your marriage, if that’s what you choose, and then he needs to figure out how to give them to you. It takes time for you to even know what those details are so don’t rush the process or make any final decisions at this point. It’s just too soon. 
In reading your posts I can tell you are strong and you know your mind. You know what you can and cannot live with. You have very definitive boundaries so it’s hard for you to even put yourself in the situation he put himself in to try and understand it. It’s just impossible. It’s not something you would’ve ever done so trying to put yourself in his shoes to understand his infidelity is pointless. I know, I’ve tried it for years and I still can’t twist myself into a position to where I could see myself doing anything anywhere close to what my husband did. i’m a little over nine years down this road since D-Day and I’m desperately trying to find a way to make this work.
I love the man he is today. He has changed into the person I wish he always was. He has changed into the fairytale that I thought he was back then. We’ve built a wonderful life together. We have a lot invested in our marriage and our family. It’s not just about me and I’m trying hard to salvage it for those reasons. The thought of losing all of our years together and all that we’ve built for that lowlife POS that is the OW infuriates me! The problem is, with me, once the deed is done it’s hard to walk it back. I can’t unknow that he willingly threw me and our marriage in the garbage. It’s a hard wall to break down. And as much as I love him, I am not in love with him anymore. I’ve lost so much respect. And as flawed as I know this thinking is because it wasn’t about me, I will forever battle with my self-esteem and my self image. I will forever feel that I wasn’t good enough. I will forever compare myself to her. I will never be able to have a close friend again because they both destroyed that level of trust for me. I feel like I will have zero self respect for myself if I stay. I don’t know if that will ever come back. If I left would I gain those things back? I don’t know. That’s the ***** of infidelity. No one really knows how to navigate it at first so take your time, breathe and find your road. You will know when you find it. 
Wishing you much strength!


----------



## NicoleCJ

Also, as far as working out and losing any weight you may think you need to lose, do that for you. Don‘t do it because you think you need to compare yourself to the skank at the bar, she doesn’t compare to you. Truly. I think a couple posters said that that’s doing the pick me dance, but that’s only true if you’re doing it for the wrong reasons. I started working out quite a bit about a month before I found out. It definitely ramped up after Dday mostly because it was a coping mechanism for me. It can also be a way to grow back your self esteem and just feel all around healthier, mentally and physically, which you need right now. Now is a time to do things for YOU. If you’re like me that can feel selfish, but it’s necessary. I worked out, bought myself new clothes, went floating 3 to 4 days a week and tried new things I’d always wanted to learn but was so far out of my box that I just didn’t have the confidence to do. But because I’ve done those things, I look and feel better than I have in years… maybe ever. That could just be looking at life with a little different perspective, but whatever. OW has not aged well. Not the reason why, but the fact that she doesn’t compare to me now is just a bonus. The main thing is it helped me establish an independence, confidence and ability in my own mind that helps me greatly to get through this. Don’t really care what my husband thinks about what I’m wearing or doing. I’ve put myself last for years. This is for me. In fact, I’m going to go buy a freakin expensive table saw next week and he’s not going to say jack to me about it. I want to try to lay some flooring at my sons house and build some floating shelves so I’m going to do it. I’ll probably suck at it but it’ll be fun! Maybe I’ll find a new hobby to do for me!  
Do something for you!


----------



## Woundidwife

TXTrini,
I hear you. Most definitely, almost everything in my life is a coping mechanism now. It is also very likely that I DO need to hear all of that, but I just can’t right now. Trying to heal my soul. 😔

I apologize to anyone who is genuinely trying to help me. Some of the comments don’t feel like help at all, though and those are the ones I can’t stomach right now. Being stabbed by my WH and then again (repeatedly by some) by supportive strangers does not feel very supportive. 

I am probably still in denial, which I guess is not entertaining enough for folks to stick around for. Thank you to those who are willing to help.


----------



## Woundidwife

NicoleCJ said:


> WW,
> I‘ve not been able to be on here much and need to go back and read through this thread again. I’m sure i’m missing some key info, but I did see in the last couple pages that you are officially separating. If not permanently then for an allotted amount of time. This is good. It’s something I wish I would’ve done sooner. It’s only been the last year that I’ve finally told him to leave. We’ve had several 3 to 4 week periods apart and it’s been very helpful in lowering my stress/anxiety level, which is always high when he’s around. Just focusing on something else and kind of taking a breather helps me rejuvenate and gather strength back.
> It is scary though. It’s a road full of unknown curves and turns, but you CAN do it. It will make you stronger, more confident and secure in the fact that you, if you so chose, can survive on your own without your husband if you ultimately D. I’m not suggesting that that’s what you should do. I’m just saying you need to make that decision from a place of strength. You don’t have that strength yet. Your betrayal is still so new and you still have so many ups and downs of the emotional roller coaster to experience yet. Making the decision to R or D just can’t be properly made this soon.
> Your husband has a lot learn still. You’re both doing the right things though. I struggled to get mine into counseling. After several years he finally joined my counseling sessions and met with her one on one for some on his own. It was very good for him.
> The one thing separation will do for you is give you clarity of thought. Though I do think he needs to see the pain he caused, It’ll give you time to be sad and angry and grieve in your own way too without his influence causing you to hold back. That’s something I had a hard time doing when my husband was around all the time. He became very clingy and wanted to be together 24/7 to desperately try and fix the damage he caused. I, in my need to make him happy, held within a lot of my emotions in the beginning. That was incredibly damaging now looking back. The best thing we could’ve done was have it out every day for as long as it took to get all of it out of my system. The pain, the anger, the shock, the rage, the injustice… all of it. I held so much of that in, desperately trying to preserve our marriage and to satisfy my need to not make waves or see him upset or sad. I worried more about how bad he felt about himself that I neglected what I needed to do to try and heal. It was horribly toxic and we made some major mistakes by allowing that to happen.
> I also worried what others would think or find out. We’re not in a small town per se, but we are both well known where we live. It would be quite a shock for our wider circle of friends and acquaintances to learn what was truly going on behind closed doors. We have a second home across state so when I’ve asked him to leave for a while it’s not looked at as strange. We have always split time back and forth so no one thinks it’s anything but normal. If you were to ask anyone they would say we have the perfect marriage. We are a great couple, are so compatible and get along so well. I don’t think anyone would truly believe that he would ever have cheated on me that I would find myself unable to get out of bed for days at a time fighting suicidal thoughts. Only my sister and two of my friends, one of whom was the one that the OW bragged to about the affair, know what is going on. As far as I know, he hasn’t told any of his close friends. It’s made it quite hard for me to do what is best in my healing while worrying about what would happen if anyone found out. And I do still worry about that. So I understand trying to protect that. I know though, at some point, I’m going to have to let that go if I am to heal properly. I just haven’t figured out how to do that yet.
> I think were pretty similar in our personality traits. I would have to go back and double check, but I remember you stating a few of yours that I could relate to. I’m definitely conflict avoidant. I’m a people pleaser. I am a nurturer and want to take care of everyone around me. I did so at the expense of not taking care of myself or taking care of the things that I need to do to be a healthy person. When I married my husband I gave up many things to devote myself to that marriage. My vows were sacred. I took the blame for everything that was wrong in our relationship and I was the one who always apologized for everything. Even if it wasn’t my fault or fault should have been shared. In my mind we lived a fairytale and had the perfect relationship with just a few tiny normal little flaws. I still believe that our flaws were normal. But I know now that he wasn’t perfect. He was flawed and I took on those flaws to maintain the fairytale. This is not to say that I didn’t have my own, I did! Those flaws enabled to me to sit and watch his betrayal unfold in front of my eyes and pretend I didn’t see it because it couldn’t be true. Not him! I still have a hard time believing that he was capable of doing what I know now he did.
> Sorry this is so long. I just want you to not make mistakes that I made. Separation is good. You need to know you can survive on your own. You need to sit and think about what details you need to know that you feel you don’t have about his ONS to be able to move forward in your marriage, if that’s what you choose, and then he needs to figure out how to give them to you. It takes time for you to even know what those details are so don’t rush the process or make any final decisions at this point. It’s just too soon.
> In reading your posts I can tell you are strong and you know your mind. You know what you can and cannot live with. You have very definitive boundaries so it’s hard for you to even put yourself in the situation he put himself in to try and understand it. It’s just impossible. It’s not something you would’ve ever done so trying to put yourself in his shoes to understand his infidelity is pointless. I know, I’ve tried it for years and I still can’t twist myself into a position to where I could see myself doing anything anywhere close to what my husband did. i’m a little over nine years down this road since D-Day and I’m desperately trying to find a way to make this work.
> I love the man he is today. He has changed into the person I wish he always was. He has changed into the fairytale that I thought he was back then. We’ve built a wonderful life together. We have a lot invested in our marriage and our family. It’s not just about me and I’m trying hard to salvage it for those reasons. The thought of losing all of our years together and all that we’ve built for that lowlife POS that is the OW infuriates me! The problem is, with me, once the deed is done it’s hard to walk it back. I can’t unknow that he willingly threw me and our marriage in the garbage. It’s a hard wall to break down. And as much as I love him, I am not in love with him anymore. I’ve lost so much respect. And as flawed as I know this thinking is because it wasn’t about me, I will forever battle with my self-esteem and my self image. I will forever feel that I wasn’t good enough. I will forever compare myself to her. I will never be able to have a close friend again because they both destroyed that level of trust for me. I feel like I will have zero self respect for myself if I stay. I don’t know if that will ever come back. If I left would I gain those things back? I don’t know. That’s the *** of infidelity. No one really knows how to navigate it at first so take your time, breathe and find your road. You will know when you find it.
> Wishing you much strength!


Thank you so much for taking the time to write that for me!!! ❤ You sound almost exactly like me. How long were you married before d-day? Do you feel it was worth your 9 years of trying to make it work?

I am going to work out and lose just a little weight FOR ME. And my heart issues. I don’t have that much to lose…just tighten up a little.


----------



## NicoleCJ

Woundidwife said:


> I am probably still in denial


You're not in denial, you're likely still in shock. Your husband just ripped the solid ground out from underneath your feet. You're just trying desperately to find your footing again. Once you do, your soul will start to mend. You are normal and it’s ok to feel the way you do.


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> TXTrini,
> I hear you. Most definitely, almost everything in my life is a coping mechanism now. It is also very likely that I DO need to hear all of that, but I just can’t right now. Trying to heal my soul. 😔
> 
> I apologize to anyone who is genuinely trying to help me. Some of the comments don’t feel like help at all, though and those are the ones I can’t stomach right now. Being stabbed by my WH and then again (repeatedly by some) by supportive strangers does not feel vwry supportive.
> 
> I am probably still in denial, which I guess is not entertaining enough for folks to stick around for. Thank you to those who are willing to help.


Woundid,
The last thing I want for you is more pain; I've been you, so my heart bleeds for you. Maybe NicoleCJ said it better, but I'm glad she reached you. None of us is the least bit entertained by anything you're going through, quite the opposite. Many of us, including some you've ignored, have been through the absolute ringer and had to choose their peace, so they could think about what they wanted for themselves and their children.

At the end of the day, none of us have control over what another person does, no matter how much we love them or the circumstances. All we can do is encourage you to do the best for YOU, for your peace. Life is 10% of what happens to us and 90% of how we handle it in the choices we make. 

I am here when you are ready. The best thing you can do, like NicoleCJ said, is to continue with the separation, and focus on you. Your WH is a big boy who made big boy decisions for you both, he can handle a little self-soothing while you make sense of things. You sound like a very intelligent woman, but maybe one who cares a bit too much about what others think. I get it, I too was ashamed, especially as the woman in question was barely a woman, I was a living cliché and had to come to terms with my own pride.

Please be assured that his actions have nothing to do with you, aren't a reflection of you, and are not your responsibility. No matter how much you are hurting now, it won't always be this way. Of course, I can say that, because I chose to completely remove myself from my situation. Consider this, your first instinct is love in the face of what he chose, instead of hate, so it's not you who must be worthy of him and bend backwards, but him who must prove himself now. I think that's what frustrates most people because we see YOU and think you deserve to love yourself as much. 

@NicoleCJ Thank you so much for sharing your journey, it sounds truly painful, but one that's made you stronger. Maybe you could share some more with Woundidwife, you seem to mirror her experience more than most of us. It really helps to have someone who's not quite on the other side, but still struggling share their perspective.


----------



## Not

I have never been in a situation even remotely close to this but I have been watching this thread because it touches me, I can feel the heart break through the pages. As an observer I think I see the same thing woundidwife is seeing. The horse is not only done beaten but it’s shredded to pieces with these constant smears and attacks on her WH, and they are not letting up.

The smears and attacks are normal at the start of a thread like this as initial reactions take place to the information shared but to continue to beat that horse to death is now no longer useful and it’s getting quite old. It’s also quite arrogant and insulting because it assumes that OP doesn’t already know all this. He’s a piece of ****, she already knows!

Where’s the advice? The sharing of personal experiences? She’s looking for help. Suggest a book. She’s looking for what she can DO about her situation.


----------



## Woundidwife

Not said:


> I have never been in a situation even remotely close to this but I have been watching this thread because it touches me, I can feel the heart break through the pages. As an observer I think I see the same thing woundidwife is seeing. The horse is not only done beaten but it’s shredded to pieces with these constant smears and attacks on her WH, and they are not letting up.
> 
> The smears and attacks are normal at the start of a thread like this as initial reactions take place to the information shared but to continue to beat that horse to death is now no longer useful and it’s getting quite old. It’s also quite arrogant and insulting because it assumes that OP doesn’t already know all this. He’s a piece of ****, she already knows!
> 
> Where’s the advice? The sharing of personal experiences? She’s looking for help. Suggest a book. She’s looking for what she can DO about her situation.


Thank you for your support. 👍 I am reading voraciously!!!
Codependency is my next topic—recommended by IC.


----------



## Megaforce

It's been, what, 3 weeks or so? I think you are doing as good as can be expected. You've been married a long time. Your husband is nomworse than the average cheater. Perhaps even less so, if the confession was really strictly voluntary.

People do reconcile successfully sometimes, and that includes folks who always felt cheating would be a dealbreaker. I do not see you as being in denial. I was confused as hell for a long time and did not know what to do.
The separation is a good idea.

Your husband is messed up to have done this. But, there is no harm in giving yourself some time to decide if you want to stay with him.


----------



## *Deidre*

Woundidwife said:


> Just started separation on Monday.


Just know that even those who may seem harsh in their replies, do care. Everyone cares differently and we hope you come away stronger, and better equipped to make a big life decision like what to do next in your marriage. And whether you stay or leave your marriage, I hope you do it for the right reasons and not out of fear, either way.

Stay strong.🙏


----------



## Not

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you for your support. 👍 I am reading voraciously!!!
> Codependency is my next topic—recommended by IC.


I wish I had something to offer to help but I am completely useless in this arena. I honestly don’t know how you’ve held it together and I admire you for that. You’re showing a strength that maybe you don’t realize is there. It is.


----------



## NicoleCJ

Do I feel it has been worth it? Boy that’s a loaded question lol! Some days yes, some days no. I know that doesn’t help. They are days that it’s very much worth it. When I look at my family and when I see the changes he’s made, yes it’s worth the struggle. Some days though, when I am by myself and sad, I wonder what I am sacrificing of myself to make everyone else happy. It’s a really hard balancing act. 
There are definitely days when I feel the best thing would’ve been to let him have her all those years ago. Moved on when I was younger and lived my life. But because he was dishonest with me from the beginning and I didn’t know the extent of the relationship, I didn’t have all the information to make that judgment. I think had I known everything on the first Dday I likely would’ve left him, she would’ve left her husband, they would’ve gotten together and been happy for a while. It wouldn’t have lasted. The affair bubble would have burst. His family would’ve hated her. Our friends would have been disgusted with the two of them. We would’ve had to co-parent our kids and I would’ve fought him with every piece of my being to keep her out of my children’s lives because she was a horrible mother. He would’ve ended up resenting her and quickly growing disillusioned with her as the unicorn and rainbow sprinkles started to wear off and he saw her for who she truly was, like I did. That would’ve grown to hate as he realized his horrible choices caused him to lose something wonderful.
As for me I don’t know what would’ve happened to me. I never could imagine my life without him. I think I would’ve just been so incredibly hurt that I couldn’t have lived with him. But having a toddler and a newborn at the time contributed to my inability to see the truth. I truly believe something in my head didn’t allow me to see so that I could continue being a mom. I wouldn’t have been able to function knowing the truth and my children would’ve paid the price for that. As it is they got to grow up with two parents in what they saw as a loving household and are wonderful young adults now. I’m thankful that they had that. It cost me a lot. If I had known the truth then I would’ve gotten my questions answered and I wouldn’t feel like half my life was a lie. I feel like I am just this big puzzle with a whole bunch of pieces missing. It’s such a disconcerting feeling when something you knew, absolutely knew to be true…was not. 
I guess where I am now, having the ability to look back at all of those things and see what I’ve been through, I would say it has been worth it IF I can get a solid basis for forgiveness. He’s made changes and accepted full responsibility. He has never laid any blame at my feet. He knows it was his failing. My problem is I don’t feel he is telling me the truth. I think he now knows what a massive mistake he made then. Actually it wasn’t a mistake. He made choices. Over and over again he chose her. I think he is terrified to lose me. It’s a classic you don’t know what you have until you lose it situation for him. But for me, I feel like he had to destroy us\me to learn that lesson. I think he thinks he’s protecting me from more pain. But how do you forgive someone when you don’t know what you’re forgiving them for?
I’m someone who has to know every detail. Every last thing. And I can’t! That information isn’t available. I need to be able to watch the betrayal like a movie, digest it, understand it and then accept it before I can forgive. So I’m stuck in this limbo and it is pure, soul crushing hell. If I could feel like I had the truth then I would happily go through another nine years to try and get this back if I felt that I could be in love with him again. Romantically in love. I just don’t know if I’ll ever get that back. 
The one thing you have going for you is that you have the ability to get these answers without him being able to say “it was too long ago, I just don’t remember or I forget” that’s why I say get every detail you possibly can right now. Have him write it down. Go over it and over it and over it again and again and again. I so wish that I could’ve done that for the things that I’m really tripped up on. They’re some things that we’ve been able to do that with and it really does help. Even if it hurts to no end, talking about it 2, 10, 20 or 100 times, whatever it takes, will ease the pain away a bit and it will lose some its power till it’s something that you can accept and live with. But only you know what those things are and how many times you need him to say them. And it’s worth it if he is truly remorseful. Big difference between regretting his actions and being truly remorseful for them. It should be as painful for him to watch you cry and go through this as it is for you to be the one curled up on the floor a snot-nosed crying hot mess. That took my husband a good year, year and a half to reach that point and understand at that level. 
One thing that I do ask myself now, and would be a good question for you to think about. At this moment, if you met him today would you choose him again? Is he someone that you could love and trust and fall in love with again?


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## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you for your support. 👍 I am reading voraciously!!!
> Codependency is my next topic—recommended by IC.


This book took me a good 18 months to read, because it was so hard. Now, I decided to D, not R, but it can still help you. R involves a completely new relationship; there's no going back to what was, or who either of you were. 

I also read a book on codependency but didn't get too much from it. I'm onto this series next when I get some time. My therapist also had me read these books to help me rediscover my authentic self and separate my emotions from my situation, to be able to make the correct choice for me. 

It's great to see you are going for therapy. Therapy was so hard for me, but so necessary. I still have things to deal with as soon as I can afford to go back. My final DD was more than 3 years ago, so it's been quite a journey. It will get easier to bear as time passes, but don't be discouraged when you have bad days, they are inevitable. Growing pains are just that, pains, regardless of what you end up deciding.


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## Woundidwife

Good points.


NicoleCJ said:


> I think he is terrified to lose me. It’s a classic you don’t know what you have until you lose it situation for him. But for me, I feel like he had to destroy us\me to learn that lesson.
> 
> I need to know every detail. Every last thing. I need to be able to watch the betrayal like a movie, digest it, understand it and then accept it before I can forgive.
> 
> Big difference between regretting his actions and being truly remorseful for them. It should be as painful for him to watch you cry and go through this as it is for you to be the one curled up on the floor a snot-nosed crying hot mess.
> 
> At this moment, if you met him today would you choose him again? Is he someone that you could love and trust and fall in love with again?


“I think he is terrified to lose me. It’s a classic you don’t know what you have until you lose it situation for him. But for me, I feel like he had to destroy us\me to learn that lesson.”

Yep.

“I need to know every detail. Every last thing. I need to be able to watch the betrayal like a movie, digest it, understand it and then accept it before I can forgive.”

Same here.

“Big difference between regretting his actions and being truly remorseful for them. It should be as painful for him to watch you cry and go through this as it is for you to be the one curled up on the floor a snot-nosed crying hot mess.”

Agree 110%.

“At this moment, if you met him today would you choose him again? Is he someone that you could love and trust and fall in love with again?”

Not sure about that yet. Got some me crap to figure out first. I will ponder on that in a few months.

I can really relate to this. Thank you for posting.


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## NicoleCJ

Woundidwife said:


> How long were you married before d-day?


Forgot to answer this. We had been married 6 years at DDay 1, but had been a couple for almost 7 years prior to getting married. We had been married for 20 years at DDay 2.


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## TXTrini

NicoleCJ said:


> Forgot to answer this. We had been married 6 years at DDay 1, but had been a couple for almost 7 years prior to getting married. We had been married for 20 years at DDay 2.


So he did it again years later? That's the experience of most people I've seen R. I've had multiple DDs too, at different "levels". It's why people caution against R if the WS isn't truly remorseful and bending backwards.


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## NicoleCJ

TXTrini said:


> So he did it again years later? That's the experience of most people I've seen R. I've had multiple DDs too, at different "levels". It's why people caution against R if the WS isn't truly remorseful and bending backwards.


Yes, there was a second. it didn’t rise to the level of the first, I just didn’t know that at the time. The first one was an EA/PA. How far the PA went is the issue at this point. I don’t believe what he’s telling me. He did do an abrupt change after the first one. But his boundaries obviously were still lacking. If he had authentically change those behaviors the second wouldn’t have occurred. We’ve had that discussion many times. 
The second one was more of a flirtation that crossed boundaries that could definitely have lead to an PA. But he wasn’t emotionally or physically attracted to the second one. He was just flattered and getting ego kibbles from a 20 something that had a crush and was coming on to him and wasn’t doing anything to stop it or discourage her.
He was also caught both times. He never confessed. He did immediately both times drop them like a hot rock, which he wants credit for, but I don’t think credit is due there. He should’ve stopped the behavior immediately when he knew it was crossing lines. Actually it shouldn’t of begun at all. 
After being caught the first time he lied, denied, minimized, blame shifted and gaslighted me to no end. I didn’t really even know at the time what an EA was. And being such an overwhelmed young mom, I did everything and had a lot of responsibilities, it was easy to believe him. The second time however, I put a stop to that BS pretty quick. I had read the chat, there wasn’t going to be any gaslighting or minimizing that time, though he did try to for sure. He owns and admits absolutely all his bad choices/behavior today. But once you cross that road the damage is already done…


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## Openminded

When you reconcile — and I did for many years — you find that you are never again as trusting as you once were. And you shouldn’t be because you now know what he’s capable of. He may never cheat again or he might — that’s always the unknown part of it that you have to consider. I was very naive the first time my exH cheated but going forward I was much more aware and it was easier for me to catch him the second time. Rebuilding a marriage isn’t easy but some manage to do it successfully. For others, divorce is ultimately the best solution. Take your time and do what you feel would be best for you — not for him or your children or anyone else. Make it about you and you alone. I stayed for a number of reasons but in hindsight getting out the first time would have been best for me and my only regret is that I didn’t see it then. Whether you go or you stay there’s always risk involved. You have to decide how much risk you’re willing to take. Obviously there are no guarantees whether you decide to rebuild with him or restart without him. I wish you well.


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## TXTrini

NicoleCJ said:


> Yes, there was a second. it didn’t rise to the level of the first, I just didn’t know that at the time. The first one was an EA/PA. How far the PA went is the issue at this point. I don’t believe what he’s telling me. He did do an abrupt change after the first one. But his boundaries obviously were still lacking. If he had authentically change those behaviors the second wouldn’t have occurred. We’ve had that discussion many times.
> The second one was more of a flirtation that crossed boundaries that could definitely have lead to an PA. But he wasn’t emotionally or physically attracted to the second one. He was just flattered and getting ego kibbles from a 20 something that had a crush and was coming on to him and wasn’t doing anything to stop it or discourage her.
> He was also caught both times. He never confessed. He did immediately both times drop them like a hot rock, which he wants credit for, but I don’t think credit is due there. He should’ve stopped the behavior immediately when he knew it was crossing lines. Actually it shouldn’t of begun at all.
> After being caught the first time he lied, denied, minimized, blame shifted and gaslighted me to no end. I didn’t really even know at the time what an EA was. And being such an overwhelmed young mom, I did everything and had a lot of responsibilities, it was easy to believe him. The second time however, I put a stop to that BS pretty quick. I had read the chat, there wasn’t going to be any gaslighting or minimizing that time, though he did try to for sure. He owns and admits absolutely all his bad choices/behavior today. But once you cross that road the damage is already done…


Your WH sounds like my ex, ****ty boundaries, liking ego kibbles from a younger female, minimizing ****ty behavior, and blame-shifting. My first DD was an EA chat that he claims didn't go further; the 2nd was him telling me he avoided another EA and expected me to give credit for "honesty", it came out months later that he'd been in love and dropped her when I told him that I couldn't stay. He even went for IC with our MC for months (I refused MC until he got his **** together), it was several months to a year after I confronted him due to strange behavior and got a confession, DD3. I don't know the details, and didn't care enough to ask, I knew that it was a waste of time at that point.

Looking back, I wasted a good 10 years trying to fix a marriage that should have been scrapped after the first breach of trust. Not out of spite, but because love is not enough when two people are fundamentally incompatible with respect to core values, boundaries, and commitment. I'm not the sort of person who can ever respect a liar, so my contempt must have been obvious because when I asked what his OW saw in him, he told me she actually liked him. Fair enough. 

This is why I'm never going to encourage a BS to expend their energy to fix what they didn't break. I get that people must make the best decision for them, and do so in their own time, and it is hard to admit when you've been flogging a dead horse. 

Anyways, no judgment here. I just have no good suggestions on how to cope, because I don't think I coped well after the first DD. Something would always trigger me, it was a good few years before I stopped thinking about it. The first time I moved into my new house after my divorce was the first time I felt at peace in nearly a decade, and finally began to heal. Naturally, that makes my advice biased. 

However, some of the things I learned from nearly 10 years of reconciliation was 
1. It was never about me, people make choices according to their own moral compass/lack of one
2. Once trust is broken by infidelity, respect was out the window for me, I saw my ex as inferior morally
3. It wasn't up to me to fix what I didn't break, or within my control
4. Stop looking for me in someone else, that's a recipe for disappointment
5. My motives for R were questionable, at the core of it were stubbornness and fear of change. 

@Woundidwife I'm not sharing my experience to convince you either way, just to show you my thought process throughout this journey, several years out. I know our circumstances are very different, but the bones of it are very similar. I don't know you personally, you may have a very different mindset, tolerance, and ability to forgive and move forward. Just know you are not alone, not stupid or defective. I didn't want anyone to know either, TAM and my therapist were my only outlets. My family doesn't know the details, and I like keeping it that way.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Interesting thread title change. I guess we've moved away from blaming the H for this entirely. Now he's the hero AND the victim. 🙁


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## BigDaddyNY

TexasMom1216 said:


> Interesting thread title change. I guess we've moved away from blaming the H for this entirely. Now he's the hero AND the victim. 🙁


What was the thread title before? It looks the same to me


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## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> What was the thread title before? It looks the same to me


She added "husband confessed" to the end. It was "Unbelievable ONS Infidelity" until this morning.


----------



## Megaforce

I just hope, somewhere down the road when you feel better, you get the truth to your satisfaction: the voluntary nature of the confession; the strange justification of his motivation( your suspected drinking), his allegation that he was unaware buying her drinks was an overture ; that she was so aggressive; how he knew of a secluded spot, etc.

If your husband really wants to reconcile, he should address these weird behaviors. They seem unbelievable.


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## snowbum

Megaforce said:


> I just hope, somewhere down the road when you feel better, you get the truth to your satisfaction: the voluntary nature of the confession; the strange justification of his motivation( your suspected drinking), his allegation that he was unaware buying her drinks was an overture ; that she was so aggressive; how he knew of a secluded spot, etc.
> 
> If your husband really wants to reconcile, he should address these weird behaviors. They seem unbelievable.


No crap. He’d have to intellectually delayed not to know doing such was risky.


----------



## Woundidwife

TXTrini said:


> This book took me a good 18 months to read, because it was so hard. Now, I decided to D, not R, but it can still help you. R involves a completely new relationship; there's no going back to what was, or who either of you were.
> 
> I also read a book on codependency but didn't get too much from it. I'm onto this series next when I get some time. My therapist also had me read these books to help me rediscover my authentic self and separate my emotions from my situation, to be able to make the correct choice for me.
> 
> It's great to see you are going for therapy. Therapy was so hard for me, but so necessary. I still have things to deal with as soon as I can afford to go back. My final DD was more than 3 years ago, so it's been quite a journey. It will get easier to bear as time passes, but don't be discouraged when you have bad days, they are inevitable. Growing pains are just that, pains, regardless of what you end up deciding.


Thank you for the insight and book suggestions. I am up to my ears in books, but reading them all.


----------



## Woundidwife

Megaforce said:


> I just hope, somewhere down the road when you feel better, you get the truth to your satisfaction: the voluntary nature of the confession; the strange justification of his motivation( your suspected drinking), his allegation that he was unaware buying her drinks was an overture ; that she was so aggressive; how he knew of a secluded spot, etc.
> 
> If your husband really wants to reconcile, he should address these weird behaviors. They seem unbelievable.



Yes, it all seemed pretty f-ing unbelievable to me, too, which is how the thread title came to be. I am STILL trying to come to terms with it. 

Today was a really bad day. Angry all day. Woke up at 3:00 am again and couldn’t go back to sleep. That is what I get for trying to go to bed earlier without any sleep aids! The day ended better though because I had plans after my job with a coworker and this evening with family members who are very supportive. ❤


So some revelations have occurred since the first version:

He DID volunteer the confession (a month later…AFTER I began having sudden and completely NEW—never before—lady issues, and also AFTER he had STD tests for HIMSELF); the justification about me MAYBE drinking was made up because he actually completed the act the DAY BEFORE the mini phone argument; we were married young and never spent time in bars, but yes, EVERY idiot should know what buying and accepting drinks means; he thinks she was a BS looking to even a score; she asked him about what he likes to do, so he was already talking about outdoor activities which was already in his mind and so CONVENIENTLY led him straight to a local parking lot for one of them.

All cut and dried. Not at all okay, but there it is.

ETA: He confessed because of the guilt (and I was so sweet) and said I didn’t deserve it. He said it took him a month to get up the courage to do it, (only took a few minutes to get up the hard-on and courage to f*** a skank), but he finally confessed because he thought I deserved the right to choose what happens next in our relationship.

Again, a very, VERY ANGRY day for me, today.


----------



## Woundidwife

Openminded said:


> When you reconcile — and I did for many years — you find that you are never again as trusting as you once were. And you shouldn’t be because you now know what he’s capable of. He may never cheat again or he might — that’s always the unknown part of it that you have to consider. I was very naive the first time my exH cheated but going forward I was much more aware and it was easier for me to catch him the second time. Rebuilding a marriage isn’t easy but some manage to do it successfully. For others, divorce is ultimately the best solution. Take your time and do what you feel would be best for you — not for him or your children or anyone else. Make it about you and you alone. I stayed for a number of reasons but in hindsight getting out the first time would have been best for me and my only regret is that I didn’t see it then. Whether you go or you stay there’s always risk involved. You have to decide how much risk you’re willing to take. Obviously there are no guarantees whether you decide to rebuild with him or restart without him. I wish you well.


Thank you! I AM taking time for me.


----------



## NicoleCJ

Woundidwife said:


> Yes, it all seemed pretty F-ing unbelievable to me, too, which is how the thread title came to be. I am STILL trying to come to terms with it.
> 
> Today was a really bad day. Angry all day. Woke up at 3:00 am again and couldn’t go back to sleep. That is what I get for trying to go to bed earlier without any sleep aids! The day ended better though because I had plans after my job with a coworker and this evening with family members who are very supportive. ❤
> 
> 
> So some revelations have occurred since the first version:
> 
> He DID volunteer the confession (a month later…after I began having sudden and completely new lady issues, and also AFTER he had STD tests for HIMSELF); the justification about me MAYBE drinking was made up because he actually completed the act the DAY BEFORE the mini phone argument; we were married young and never spent time in bars, but yes, EVERY idiot should know what buying and accepting drinks means; he thinks she was a BS looking to even a score; she asked him about what he like to do, so he was already talking about outdoor activities which was already in his mind and so CONVENIENTLY led him straight to a local parking lot for one of them.
> 
> All cut and dried. Not at all okay, but there it is.


Good that he’s added more details and I’m glad the day ended better for you 😊 Lack of sleep is a killer and something I still struggle with. Waking up with that sick pit in your stomach sucks! You probably have, but have you tried melatonin? 
Diversion with positive people can help relieve the constant mind movies and give you the breather you so need right now!


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## Woundidwife

NicoleCJ said:


> Good that he’s added more details and I’m glad the day ended better for you 😊 Lack of sleep is a killer and something I still struggle with. Waking up with that sick pit in your stomach sucks! You probably have, but have you tried melatonin?
> Diversion with positive people can help relieve the constant mind movies and give you the breather you so need right now!


Yep. Melatonin, zquill, advil pm, etc.

YES. The mind movies were AWFUL today!!!! 😡😭. Even when actively doing my job, (and I don’t have a job where I can ever be inactive or disengaged for very long) they were on repeat, and I just couldn’t get them to stop!!!! 

However, I just started reading a book (that I think was recommended by Megaforce) which had a strategy for pausing and breathing and paying attention to all of the senses…It helped SOME. I tried to focus on the noises around me, the smells, etc…be really PRESENT in the moment. It only helped some, because I was supposed to be very ACTIVELY involved in my job, but it just KEPT COMING BACK. 😡🤬😔😭. (Intrusive thoughts today were about as intense as when I first learned all the details. CRUSHING.)


Gonna go with z quil tonight I think. Sleep quality sucks with all of them, but at least I’ll get some rest!


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> Yes, it all seemed pretty f-ing unbelievable to me, too, which is how the thread title came to be. I am STILL trying to come to terms with it.
> 
> Today was a really bad day. Angry all day. Woke up at 3:00 am again and couldn’t go back to sleep. That is what I get for trying to go to bed earlier without any sleep aids! The day ended better though because I had plans after my job with a coworker and this evening with family members who are very supportive. ❤
> 
> 
> So some revelations have occurred since the first version:
> 
> He DID volunteer the confession (a month later…AFTER I began having sudden and completely NEW—never before—lady issues, and also AFTER he had STD tests for HIMSELF); the justification about me MAYBE drinking was made up because he actually completed the act the DAY BEFORE the mini phone argument; we were married young and never spent time in bars, but yes, EVERY idiot should know what buying and accepting drinks means; he thinks she was a BS looking to even a score; she asked him about what he likes to do, so he was already talking about outdoor activities which was already in his mind and so CONVENIENTLY led him straight to a local parking lot for one of them.
> 
> All cut and dried. Not at all okay, but there it is.


See, this is how the stories change, over time. Years later for me, the stories have changed so many times, I cannot keep track.

I was a lawyer for many years. Lots of trial experience, dealing with witnesses highly motivated to lie. I think it was Louis Nizer, pretty famous trial attorney who used to say that the most probable explanation for anything is the most obvious( paraphrasing.
In all the times I was approached by a woman looking to establish some kind of relationship, only once did one openly suggest we have sex at the first meeting. So, I guess it is possible. Just unlikely.


----------



## NicoleCJ

Woundidwife said:


> Yep. Melatonin, zquill, advil pm, etc.
> 
> YES. The mind movies were AWFUL today!!!! 😡😭. Even when actively doing my job, (and I don’t have a job where I can ever be inactive or disengaged for very long) they were on repeat and I just couldn’t get them to stop!!!!
> 
> However, I just started reading a book (that I think was recommended by Megaforce) which had a strategy for pausing and breathing and paying attention to all of the senses…It helped SOME. I tried to focus on the noises around me, the smells, etc…be really PRESENT in the moment. It only helped some, because I was supposed to be very ACTIVELY involved in my job, but it just KEPT COMING BACK. 😡🤬😔😭. (Intrusive thoughts today were about as intense as when I first learned all the details. CRUSHING.)
> 
> 
> Gonna go with z quil tonight I think. Sleep quality sucks with all of them, but at least I’ll get some rest!


Ugh….sorry  I feel ya. They will ease with time. It’s tough enough to deal with those when your by yourself. Around others is even harder. Maybe your IC can give you a few more strategies. I listened to a lot of music. Some relaxing…some loud and angry depending on the day. Don’t think I will have any hearing left by the time I’m through this 😐


----------



## *Deidre*

There's an app called ''Calm'' that I use for my journaling time before work in the morning. Journaling in the morning or before bed might help you get some of those anxious thoughts out from the day, Woundid. The Calm app has so many great tracks for meditation, relaxation, nature soundscapes and several podcasts to help with just calming our minds. It costs like $60 annually. I think you might like it.


----------



## NicoleCJ

I have Calm and Headspace. They’re both great. I listen to a “Thunder & Rain” soundscape off of Headspace every night to help with sleep


----------



## Woundidwife

*Deidre* said:


> There's an app called ''Calm'' that I use for my journaling time before work in the morning. Journaling in the morning or before bed might help you get some of those anxious thoughts out from the day, Woundid. The Calm app has so many great tracks for meditation, relaxation, nature soundscapes and several podcasts to help with just calming our minds. It costs like $60 annually. I think you might like it.


Welp. The zquill didn’t do much. From about 1:00 on, I woke up about every hour, but WAS able to go back to sleep, HOWEVER, I don’t feel like I slept at all. Work is going to REALLY SUCK today. Today is just training, so I will be sitting, inactive, all day and will have to fight sleep, with all of my supervisors sitting there to catch me drifting off!!! 🤬. 

On a positive note, however, I get to wear jeans instead of dress clothes today, so I won’t be running late due to trying on 10 different outfits until I find one that makes me feel attractive. (I can’t leave the house until I do that anymore. It is pretty rough.) So, there’s that at least. 

If I do fall asleep, it will be in a pair of comfy jeans and a warm, cozy sweatshirt….since our building isn’t heated to my liking, and I will be cold without the constant movement that my job usually entails.

Sounds like a good idea, thank you both for reminding me of those. I had a free app at one time with rain and other nature sounds…It was on a pretty old phone (that I kept just for music and book storage space) that died on me… 😔. Will have to try to remember what app that was. THAT might help me sleep.


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> Welp. The zquill didn’t do much. From about 1:00 on, I woke up about every hour, but WAS able to go back to sleep, HOWEVER, I don’t feel like I slept at all. Work is going to REALLY SUCK today. Today is just training, so I will be sitting, inactive, all day and will have to fight sleep, with all of my supervisors sitting there to catch me drifting off!!! 🤬.
> 
> On a positive note, however, I get to wear jeans instead of dress clothes today, so I won’t be running late due to trying on 10 different outfits until I find one that makes me feel attractive. (I can’t leave the house until I do that anymore. It is pretty rough.) So, there’s that at least.
> 
> If I do fall asleep, it will be in a pair of comfy jeans and a warm, cozy sweatshirt….since our building isn’t heated to my liking, and I will be cold without the constant movement that my job usually entails.
> 
> Sounds like a good idea, thank you both for reminding me of those. I had a free app at one time with rain and other nature sounds…It was on a pretty old phone (that I kept just for music and book storage space) that died on me… 😔. Will have to try to remember what app that was. THAT might help me sleep.


Ugh, I remember those days. Day bled into night bled into day again. I don't think I really slept until I moved out, it took a while to get used to not having that familiar, safe person next to me. I still deal with difficulty sleeping sometimes, what works for me is guided meditation with the melatonin. I use the Honest Guys on YouTube. Sometimes that isn't enough, and I need prescription meds. Have you talked to your doctor about getting some? Sometimes even that won't help me relax enough, and I pull out my acupressure mat. Hopefully, today goes by fast for you.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Welp. The zquill didn’t do much. From about 1:00 on, I woke up about every hour, but WAS able to go back to sleep, HOWEVER, I don’t feel like I slept at all. Work is going to REALLY SUCK today. Today is just training, so I will be sitting, inactive, all day and will have to fight sleep, with all of my supervisors sitting there to catch me drifting off!!! 🤬.
> 
> On a positive note, however, I get to wear jeans instead of dress clothes today, so I won’t be running late due to trying on 10 different outfits until I find one that makes me feel attractive. (I can’t leave the house until I do that anymore. It is pretty rough.) So, there’s that at least.
> 
> If I do fall asleep, it will be in a pair of comfy jeans and a warm, cozy sweatshirt….since our building isn’t heated to my liking, and I will be cold without the constant movement that my job usually entails.
> 
> Sounds like a good idea, thank you both for reminding me of those. I had a free app at one time with rain and other nature sounds…It was on a pretty old phone (that I kept just for music and book storage space) that died on me… 😔. Will have to try to remember what app that was. THAT might help me sleep.


On a break at a trade show Im working and got caught up on your thread.

Nothing like infidelity to screw up your biorhythms....like totally f them up. Im so sorry. Thanks you CS's (dripping with sarcasm)....tis gift that keeps on giving.

Just read this on another thread from a BH having the same problem. If theres anything in here worth trying, maybe give it a shot. He said this:

*"My recommendations to help with sleep:

Change all light bulbs in the house to Natural Bulbs

Lift weights and heavy weights at that. Heavy weight lifting scientifically exhausts your body snd helps you sleep. (Sub moderate if too much)

1.5 MG of melatonin 1 hour before bed

One glass of warm milk before bed

Go to slept with the tv on at low volume or use a white noise machine

If you can’t go to sleep get up in 20 minutes and read then try to go back go sleep.

Do not eat within a few hours of going to bed

No cell phone 2 hours before bed

Go to bed on the early side - 9:30 pm

Make the room 67 degrees (scientifically proven for sleep)

Where socks to bed (also scientifically proven)

If it sounds like I’ve been there fine that you would be correct."*

Hang in there WW.


----------



## Woundidwife

TXTrini said:


> Ugh, I remember those days. Day bled into night bled into day again. I don't think I really slept until I moved out, it took a while to get used to not having that familiar, safe person next to me. I still deal with difficulty sleeping sometimes, what works for me is guided meditation with the melatonin. I use the Honest Guys on YouTube. Sometimes that isn't enough, and I need prescription meds. Have you talked to your doctor about getting some? Sometimes even that won't help me relax enough, and I pull out my acupressure mat. Hopefully, today goes by fast for you.


Thank you for the suggestions. I will definitely check out the meditation link.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> On a break for a break at a trade show Im working and got caught up on your thread.
> 
> Nothing like infidelity to screw up your biorhythms....like totally f them up. Im so sorry. Thanks you CS's (dripping with sarcasm)....tis gift that keeps on giving.
> 
> Just read this on another thread from a BH having the same problem. If theres anything in here worth trying, maybe give it a shot. He said this:
> 
> *"My recommendations to help with sleep:
> 
> Change all light bulbs in the house to Natural Bulbs
> 
> Lift weights and heavy weights at that. Heavy weight lifting scientifically exhausts your body snd helps you sleep. (Sub moderate if too much)
> 
> 1.5 MG of melatonin 1 hour before bed
> 
> One glass of warm milk before bed
> 
> Go to slept with the tv on at low volume or use a white noise machine
> 
> If you can’t go to sleep get up in 20 minutes and read then try to go back go sleep.
> 
> Do not eat within a few hours of going to bed
> 
> No cell phone 2 hours before bed
> 
> Go to bed on the early side - 9:30 pm
> 
> Make the room 67 degrees (scientifically proven for sleep)
> 
> Where socks to bed (also scientifically proven)
> 
> If it sounds like I’ve been there fine that you would be correct."*
> 
> Hang in there WW.


Thanks. I am sure as h*** trying to! 

Maybe I will try the weights. 

Yesterday I felt like I could have broken something. Not sure what I should be throwing, but I think it would feel good as long as I don’t cause myself a mess…. 

On a more positive note, I washed more than 1 load of laundry for myself on Wednesday and have been keeping up with my own dishes—both for the first time since separation began on Monday. It felt good to do some things on my own, in my own time, and because I really wanted them done—not on anyone else’s time schedule or due to anyone else’s expectations. My floors need done and dusting does, too. Not sure when I will get to those two things. They just don’t really feel like priorities at the moment. Maybe this evening…or maybe I will try to nap some this evening. Eh. Depends on how I am feeling when the time comes.

Kinda sad today though. Ended up crying a good chunk of my way to work (45 minute drive). I had to meet my college kid before work this morning—needed something for weekend responsibilities…Just seeing my grown child and getting a real hug made me miss all the things that have now been ruined.


----------



## oldshirt

Woundidwife said:


> Just seeing my grown child and getting a real hug made me miss all the things that have now been ruined.


Your future with him is uncertain and will be different at best if you remain together, but I don't think people's pasts are ruined. 

At least not if it really is as it's been presented. If it turns out he's been cheating all along and pulling one over on you for 20 years, that's one thing. But if there is a clearly marked before and after, I don't think the past goes away. 

You may not have a future with him. 

But your past is still your own.


----------



## Not

Woundid, I highly recommend a prescription sleep aid. During one particularly stressful period of my life I used a prescription for 7 days and it helped a ton. Your body needs a break from the exhaustion.

These prescriptions are very strong, you won’t be able to stay awake. If you do go this route take it early enough in the evening so you won’t be groggy in the morning.


----------



## TXTrini

DosEquis said:


> On a break for a break at a trade show Im working and got caught up on your thread.
> 
> Nothing like infidelity to screw up your biorhythms....like totally f them up. Im so sorry. Thanks you CS's (dripping with sarcasm)....tis gift that keeps on giving.
> 
> Just read this on another thread from a BH having the same problem. If theres anything in here worth trying, maybe give it a shot. He said this:
> 
> *"My recommendations to help with sleep:
> 
> Change all light bulbs in the house to Natural Bulbs
> 
> Lift weights and heavy weights at that. Heavy weight lifting scientifically exhausts your body snd helps you sleep. (Sub moderate if too much)
> 
> 1.5 MG of melatonin 1 hour before bed
> 
> One glass of warm milk before bed
> 
> Go to slept with the tv on at low volume or use a white noise machine
> 
> If you can’t go to sleep get up in 20 minutes and read then try to go back go sleep.
> 
> Do not eat within a few hours of going to bed
> 
> No cell phone 2 hours before bed
> 
> Go to bed on the early side - 9:30 pm
> 
> Make the room 67 degrees (scientifically proven for sleep)
> 
> Where socks to bed (also scientifically proven)
> 
> If it sounds like I’ve been there fine that you would be correct."*
> 
> Hang in there WW.


1.5mg melatonin? 😂
I take 15-20 to get my mind to shut down to get to sleep. 10mg slow release, 5-10 sublingual quick dissolve. 

Great recs, though! Especially the changing out the light bulbs. I've heard pink lightbulbs are the best for encouraging sleep; I got 20-watt warm amber ones for my bedside lamps. 

To add...
Weighted blanket! If you don't get hot, that feels really comforting, it's actually a thing for people with anxiety.


----------



## *Deidre*

I use a weighted blanket on my side of the bed. I love feeling like I'm wrapped in a cocoon. 😄


----------



## NicoleCJ

TXTrini said:


> 1.5mg melatonin? 😂
> I take 15-20 to get my mind to shut down to get to sleep. 10mg slow release, 5-10 sublingual quick dissolve.
> 
> Great recs, though! Especially the changing out the light bulbs. I've heard pink lightbulbs are the best for encouraging sleep; I got 20-watt warm amber ones for my bedside lamps.
> 
> To add...
> Weighted blanket! If you don't get hot, that feels really comforting, it's actually a thing for people with anxiety.


‘That was my first thought. I take 15 and one of my anti-anxiety meds. Night time is a horrible struggle for me. 1.5 of melatonin isn’t going to make me even blink. 😂 I just ordered a weighted blanket. Hoping that helps too. 🤞🏼


----------



## Woundidwife

Had another rough night. Super angry and also depressed and crying.

I also learned some side effects of melatonin. For real. Look them up.
1. Anxiety 
2. Diarrhea 
3. Waking at the end of deep sleep cycle (3:00am)

These are things that are already happening ten-fold, so I am done with that shyte. (I had been taking only 1 of the z quil recommended 2 tablet dose with a 3mg of melatonin.). No more of that.

Gonna take a nap!


----------



## RebuildingMe

Woundidwife said:


> Had another rough night. Super angry and also depressed and crying.
> 
> I also learned some side effects of melatonin. For real. Look them up.
> 1. Anxiety
> 2. Diarrhea
> 3. Waking at the end of deep sleep cycle (3:00am)
> 
> These are things that are already happening ten-fold, so I am done with that shyte. (I had been taking only 1 of the z quil recommended 2 does with a 3mg of melatonin.). No more of that.
> 
> Gonna take a nap!


Deleted since OP made the decision to R.


----------



## NicoleCJ

Woundidwife said:


> Had another rough night. Super angry and also depressed and crying.
> 
> I also learned some side effects of melatonin. For real. Look them up.
> 1. Anxiety
> 2. Diarrhea
> 3. Waking at the end of deep sleep cycle (3:00am)
> 
> These are things that are already happening ten-fold, so I am done with that shyte. (I had been taking only 1 of the z quil recommended 2 tablet dose with a 3mg of melatonin.). No more of that.
> 
> Gonna take a nap!


Sorry you have the side effects. :-( It has never bothered me, but everyone’s body chemistry is different. You’re also in a heightened emotional state right now. That could be adding to it. If you drink caffeine I would definitely cut back on that and sugar. 
I did drink Sleepytime Tea that had Valerian Root in it before trying to sleep, still do sometimes, and chamomile during the day in the very beginning. It helped a little, but honestly I was so mentally amped up then that I’m not sure much would’ve helped in the beginning that wasn’t prescription. Exercise did the best. Physically exhausting myself helped snap my body out of that fight or flight mode. Maybe grab a friend and go for walks after work? I did that too and that was by far the most beneficial.


----------



## Woundidwife

NicoleCJ said:


> Sorry you have the side effects. :-( It has never bothered me, but everyone’s body chemistry is different. You’re also in a heightened emotional state right now. That could be adding to it. If you drink caffeine I would definitely cut back on that and sugar.
> I did drink Sleepytime Tea that had Valerian Root in it before trying to sleep, still do sometimes, and chamomile during the day in the very beginning. It helped a little, but honestly I was so mentally amped up then that I’m not sure much would’ve helped in the beginning that wasn’t prescription. Exercise did the best. Physically exhausting myself helped snap my body out of that fight or flight mode. Maybe grab a friend and go for walks after work? I did that too and that was by far the most beneficial.


Yes, already started the walking…. As for caffeine, well, I not longer drink any caffeine due to my heart issues, but I am (apparently) a hyper person so no one really believes that! 🤣


----------



## Max.HeadRoom

in addition to ur sleep aid list i use

tryptophan
Melatonin is synthesized from tryptophan








Dietary factors and fluctuating levels of melatonin


Melatonin is secreted principally by the pineal gland and mainly at nighttime. The primary physiological function is to convey information of the daily cycle of light and darkness to the body. In addition, it may have other health-related functions. Melatonin ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov




.

l-theanine








What You Should Know About the Benefits and Risks of L-Theanine


Studies suggest that L-Theanine may improve sleep and reduce and anxiety, but before trying it, learn its possible benefits and risks.




www.healthline.com





CBD








Is Cannabidiol a Safe and Effective Sleep Aid? | Sleep Foundation


Many people claim CBD improves their sleep and reduces anxiety. Learn what CBD is, how CBD might help you, and what research needs to be done on CBD.




www.sleepfoundation.org


----------



## TexasMom1216

L-theanine has helped me sleep.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Had another rough night. Super angry and also depressed and crying.
> 
> I also learned some side effects of melatonin. For real. Look them up.
> 1. Anxiety
> 2. Diarrhea
> 3. Waking at the end of deep sleep cycle (3:00am)
> 
> These are things that are already happening ten-fold, so I am done with that shyte. (I had been taking only 1 of the z quil recommended 2 tablet dose with a 3mg of melatonin.). No more of that.
> 
> Gonna take a nap!


So sorry youre dealing with these intense abd exhausting emotions. Wish I could give you some same advice about how to minimize/avoid but the only way forward is through. This stuff is part and parcel of being a betrayed spouse. Its ugly and I hate it for anyone going through it, but its reality.

I will say that during this time of seperation, as you start working through your thoughts snd emotions, you may use the intensity of those emotions as a barometer as to when to consider reconnecting, maybe just through communicating, as in email. As long as these feelings are this negatively intense to the point of debilitating you, then continue to be seperated and no to low contact. When the start to subside to the point that you are functioning more normally, then cinsider reconnecting through communication (not face to face at first). I hope that makes sense.

As to melatonin, no more melatonin, roger that. Keep at it though. You need to find some combination that will enable you to get sleep. Its so vital to get good quality sleep, especially during highly stressful times, where you make it through the 5 stages of sleep at least 3x per night in order to be refreshed it the morning. Maybe intensify your work outs so you are physically tired when your head hits the pillow. 

You are still so close to your Dday that the trauma factor is very fresh and intense. 

One step at a time.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> So sorry youre dealing with these intense abd exhausting emotions. Wish I could give you some same advice about how to minimize/avoid but the only way forward is through. This stuff is part and parcel of being a betrayed spouse. Its ugly and I hate it for anyone going through it, but its reality.
> 
> I will say that during this time of seperation, as you start working through your thoughts snd emotions, you may use the intensity of those emotions as a barometer as to when to consider reconnecting, maybe just through communicating, as in email. As long as these feelings are this negatively intense to the point of debilitating you, then continue to be seperated and no to low contact. When the start to subside to the point that you are functioning more normally, then cinsider reconnecting through communication (not face to face at first). I hope that makes sense.
> 
> As to melatonin, no more melatonin, roger that. Keep at it though. You need to find some combination that will enable you to get sleep. Its so vital to get good quality sleep, especially during highly stressful times, where you make it through the 5 stages of sleep at least 3x per night in order to be refreshed it the morning. Maybe intensify your work outs so you are physically tired when your head hits the pillow.
> 
> You are still so close to your Dday that the trauma factor is very fresh and intense.
> 
> One step at a time.


Maxheadroom,
Thank you for the information. I WISH I had a job that would allow for me to dabble in CBD, but that could cost me my livelihood.

DosEquis,
You are absolutely right about the in-person contact. Our counselor keeps changing the rules and I am not sure why…I believe she thinks we are in a better place than we are. (Or maybe WH is manipulating the situation?). WE ARE SOOOO NOT THERE. Originally, when he was away, she told me that for the first full month, contact would be a phone call each week. Then after he returned, a week later at MC, she said dinner (with specific rules) AND church (different specific rules) in- person. 

We tried dinner. It turned into shyte-show. I will save the details, but just say that what was supposed to be an hour and a half dinner ended with me being crying hysterically and him trying to “follow me home to make sure I was safe”, turning up at the house because I didn’t answer, and me screaming so loudly outside of my house (where no neighboring houses or driveways can even be seen) that a neighbor got involved. (WH was crying and begging loudly too because he had me SOOO Pi$$ed off that I told him I wasn’t even going to try anymore and that D is my new plan.) I didn’t get to bed until midnight…after the outsiders left—WH had already agreed to leave peacefully, before we even knew the anyone was on the way. (4 hours of turmoil—not the 90 minute, peaceful, “catch-up on our individual progress” that it was SUPPOSED to be.)

Don’t worry. I told him that we need to dial it WAY back and that phone calls are definitely a better idea than anything in person for a while.

The reason I left the dinner crying hysterically? Because one of our work schedules doesn’t provide off time during most physical church services. So this week, we had watched the same online sermons, separately. Apparently the counselor again changed the rules and told HIM (this week, the day after she said the exact opposite to me), that if we could go to a physical church together in person, it would be basically the same watching online ones together in-person. I said okay, but that it needed to be at a neutral location. I said, “somewhere pretty with a bench”. I named a place with a Gazebo, and then he named a different place on the SAME F-ING ROAD as where he f***ed the skank. Same trigger road (he is WELL AWARE OF THIS) that I drive across town to avoid even SEEING on my way to ANYWHERE, which is sometimes quite a bit slower and NOT CONVENIENT at all. I couldn’t believe he actually said that to me. Of course he regretted it immediately when he saw my face, and I screamed at him, “DID YOU REALLY JUST SUGGEST [name of place] TO ME?” He said he “wasn’t even thinking” (which is how we got to this special place in Hell in the first place) and “it will never happen again”…Which is a phrase that I hear way too much in my new reality. Infidelity never should have happened in the first f-ing place!!!!

So yeah. I WAS P!$$ed!

I did get a nap yesterday. Thank you for asking. I slept most of the way though last night.

I had a good evening with a friend (not a super close friend, so I didn’t talk about what is hurting me). We did a fun activity (this was probably the best part, because my brain was so engaged that I didn’t have time to have a single intrusive thought), went to dinner, and did a little shopping. It was a good time and a pretty good distraction for the most part. The car ride was a little rough though. We drove to a more distant town (where the cool stuff is), about an hour away, so any couple second lull in the conversation allowed me to be sad…She talked about the holes in her marriage, which she had done before….Two and a half months ago when she did this, I felt bad for her, because my marriage was so wonderful. (Or so I thought.) Now when I hear her talk, I think, boy, I WISH THOSE were MY problems. When we hung out 2 1/2 months ago, it was only DAYS after he cheated, but still hadn’t confessed. I had him on speaker in my car and she listened in…He knew this and didn’t put on a show—it was him being his normal self. She was so impressed with how loving he was and loved the sweet nickname that he called me after all these years. She couldn’t believe that we were so happy after all this time. She asked how long we had been married. I told her 27 years, anniversary just a few days ago. She was amazed and envious. I was proud and happy. I learned my lesson and will NEVER BRAG about my WH ever again.

Going to do some baking for family today. I used to love to bake…Haven’t done it in a long time, and now it doesn’t even sound like something I want to do. Feels like work, and I wish I hadn’t already made the promise to do it. I am going to force myself, though—gotta get out of this funk somehow.


----------



## Openminded

Find a different counselor or tell this one to stop changing the rules. That’s not how it works.


----------



## snowbum

You should tell your counselor you aren’t ready for stuff she’s saying.

I find it really ****ty that your husband wanted to meet on that road. “Wasn’t thinking”? Seriously? That’s a pretty big screw up. Also not loving him following you. I would think separation would be no physical contact for awhile. Doesn’t sound helpful right now.


----------



## Woundidwife

I am thinking the same thing. She was really great at first, and I really liked her. She is VERY good for my WH, and definitely is helping him with his deeper issues, but I just don’t think she has MY best interests at heart anymore. She may be looking at the “bigger picture” and maybe even trying to force a reconciliation, but I have told her (and him) that I am not even sure that is what I want yet. He needs her, but I think I will look for someone else for my IC.

This ME-time needs to be just that, ME TIME. Not more drama or trauma. Allowing more in-person access to keep the codependency alive and well, and allowing these feelings to be stirred up and intensified over and over again is really hurting me. It isn’t helping, and I know it has only been a week, but don’t feel like I have made any progress. Just spinning my insomniatic, angry, and depressed wheels.


----------



## snowbum

Then you should say “ I’m not benefited meeting dh in person at this point. I don’t want to and I demand my opinion be respected. He can’t dictate timeframe. That’s manipulation.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Woundidwife said:


> I am thinking the same thing. She was really great at first, and I really liked her. She is VERY good for my WH, and definitely is helping him with his deeper issues, but I just don’t think she has MY best interests at heart anymore. She may be looking at the “bigger picture” trying to force a reconciliation, but I have told her (and him) that I am not even sure that is what I want yet. He needs her, but I think I will look for someone else for my IC.
> 
> This ME-time needs to be just that, ME TIME. Not more trauma. That isn’t helping and I don’t feel line I have made any progress. Just spinning my insomniatic, angry, and depressed wheels.


Your husband's "not thinking" is at the crux of the problem. Even now he is really only thinking of himself, just like when he had sex with the POSOW. Even when his marriage is crumbling he still can't muster the strength to put you before him. I fear this is in his DNA and he won't be changing any time soon.


----------



## TexasMom1216

snowbum said:


> Then you should say “ I’m not benefited meeting dh in person at this point. I don’t want to and I demand my opinion be respected. He can’t dictate timeframe. That’s manipulation.


I wonder if, since she’s told him she wants to reconcile, if he’s taking the separation seriously or if he’s viewing it as a tantrum she’s throwing. (Like she’s putting him through all of this as “revenge”)He’s shown he has zero respect for her, and it sounds like he (and this counselor) just want to get her back on track so he can go back to the status quo. If that’s the case, his pressuring her to get back together makes sense.

Is it a good idea to have his IC also be the marital counselor? Seems like there would be a conflict of interest.


----------



## Openminded

Woundidwife said:


> I am thinking the same thing. She was really great at first, and I really liked her. She is VERY good for my WH, and definitely is helping him with his deeper issues, but I just don’t think she has MY best interests at heart anymore. She may be looking at the “bigger picture” and maybe even trying to force a reconciliation, but I have told her (and him) that I am not even sure that is what I want yet. He needs her, but I think I will look for someone else for my IC.
> 
> This ME-time needs to be just that, ME TIME. Not more drama or trauma. Allowing more in-person access to keep the codependency alive and well, and allowing these feelings to be stirred up and intensified over and over again is really hurting me. It isn’t helping, and I know it has only been a week, but don’t feel like I have made any progress. Just spinning my insomniatic, angry, and depressed wheels.


I agree. She is helpful for him but you need a counselor that’s 100% helpful for YOU. Right now you need undisturbed time and distance in order to focus, and to be able to calmly and peacefully think about all aspects of your life and how you want that to be. I didn’t do any of that — I white-knuckled it all the way — and I greatly wish I had done things differently.


----------



## Woundidwife

The title change was just to keep new posters from arriving and asking the same questions or making the same incorrect statements over and over again. I can’t help that those things are exhausting and feel like they are “poking the bear” a little.


----------



## *Deidre*

Why does your husband want to remain married? I think he’s used to the status quo but he doesn’t sound committed to becoming the husband you deserve. It’s very common for wayward spouses to want to hang on to their marriages for fear of divorce and change in lifestyle, not entirely because they wish to remain married.

I’m hopeful you can find clarity on what YOU alone want aside from his wants.


----------



## Woundidwife

I did tell WH that I am willing to TRY to forgive and consider R, but also that the balance has shifted greatly in the opposite direction and every f***-up (and there have been quite a few) slides me closer to the D side of the fence. 

He says he wants to R because he loves me, and because he can’t live without me. 

I have never imagined my life without him either, but I also never imagined I would be expected to digest something like this and somehow “be okay” with it enough to stay together. 

I am still not sure IF I CAN or even WANT to forgive this. I am certain that I will never forget it and probably will not be able to ever live a happy life with him again—which he assures me we can. The trust is gone. The respect is gone. 

Such are the mental struggles with myself. I guess only time will tell, which is why I NEED the time for myself now. If only he would get past his selfish need to “be with me” to see that and really respect it!

ETA: If we would R, I am certain I will bring this up at every minor argument.


----------



## snowbum

1st “can’t live without you I” is a control tactic. It puts a tinge of guilt in the other person and fear that if the spouse hurt themself, etc you’d be the one responsible. He actually can live without you. We all CAN live without our spouse. 
2 nd loves a verb, not a word. His actions are lying, controlling the narrative, and your recovery. His actions are not showing love right now. So basically he’s throwing trite comments at you. What’s the truth? Does he want to avoid financial issues? Loss of reputation?


----------



## snowbum

3 rd: he assured you he’d keep it in his pants . That assurance meant bumpkins. So his assurances are more like assumptions you’ll take him back. He is still gaslighting you


----------



## snowbum

You said it perfectly. He’s selfish. Selfish people use, selfless people love


----------



## Woundidwife

The craziest (or most confusing?) part of all of this is that HE behaves and speaks almost like something has been done TO HIM, which is most definitely NOT the case. He is not the victim, he is the perpetrator! 
He CHOSE THIS, and now gets to reap his rewards. 

Side note: I spent hours making a dessert for which I have the recipe memorized. I messed it up a bunch, forgot a lot of steps…had to backtrack, and it doesn’t even taste good to me (normally a family favorite and one of my personal favorites), but I have eaten 3 or 4 servings of it anyway. Going to give it all away so that I don’t continue to stress/depression eat it anymore. It didn’t comfort me at all—which I knew it wouldn’t. 😔


----------



## snowbum

If he acts like he was victimized that says two things:
1. He really didn’t think what he did was wrong. Now that you’re upset, he’s forced to “get this to go away”. It’s uncomfortable.
2. He’s not remorseful. He’s sorry you reacted the way you did and that you didn’t forgive and forget . Nothing happened to him. No one wronged him. He was NOT victimized.

reconciliation while in his state is futile.


----------



## DosEquis

Q


Woundidwife said:


> Maxheadroom,
> Thank you for the information. I WISH I had a job that would allow for me to dabble in CBD, but that could cost me my livelihood.
> 
> DosEquis,
> You are absolutely right about the in-person contact. Our counselor keeps changing the rules and I am not sure why…I believe she thinks we are in a better place than we are. (Or maybe WH is manipulating the situation?). WE ARE SOOOO NOT THERE. Originally, when he was away, she told me that for the first full month, contact would be a phone call each week. Then after he returned, a week later at MC, she said dinner (with specific rules) AND church (different specific rules) in- person.
> 
> We tried dinner. It turned into shyte-show. I will save the details, but just say that what was supposed to be an hour and a half dinner ended with me being crying hysterically and him trying to “follow me home to make sure I was safe”, turning up at the house because I didn’t answer, and me screaming so loudly outside of my house (where no neighboring houses or driveways can even be seen) that a neighbor got involved. (WH was crying and begging loudly too because he had me SOOO Pi$$ed off that I told him I wasn’t even going to try anymore and that D is my new plan.) I didn’t get to bed until midnight…after the outsiders left—WH had already agreed to leave peacefully, before we even knew the anyone was on the way. (4 hours of turmoil—not the 90 minute, peaceful, “catch-up on our individual progress” that it was SUPPOSED to be.)
> 
> Don’t worry. I told him that we need to dial it WAY back and that phone calls are definitely a better idea than anything in person for a while.
> 
> The reason I left the dinner crying hysterically? Because one of our work schedules doesn’t provide off time during most physical church services. So this week, we had watched the same online sermons, separately. Apparently the counselor again changed the rules and told HIM (this week, the day after she said the exact opposite to me), that if we could go to a physical church together in person, it would be basically the same watching online ones together in-person. I said okay, but that it needed to be at a neutral location. I said, “somewhere pretty with a bench”. I named a place with a Gazebo, and then he named a different place on the SAME F-ING ROAD as where he f***ed the skank. Same trigger road (he is WELL AWARE OF THIS) that I drive across town to avoid even SEEING on my way to ANYWHERE, which is sometimes quite a bit slower and NOT CONVENIENT at all. I couldn’t believe he actually said that to me. Of course he regretted it immediately when he saw my face, and I screamed at him, “DID YOU REALLY JUST SUGGEST [name of place] TO ME?” He said he “wasn’t even thinking” (which is how we got to this special place in Hell in the first place) and “it will never happen again”…Which is a phrase that I hear way too much in my new reality. Infidelity never should have happened in the first f-ing place!!!!
> 
> So yeah. I WAS P!$$ed!
> 
> I did get a nap yesterday. Thank you for asking. I slept most of the way though last night.
> 
> I had a good evening with a friend (not a super close friend, so I didn’t talk about what is hurting me). We did a fun activity (this was probably the best part, because my brain was so engaged that I didn’t have time to have a single intrusive thought), went to dinner, and did a little shopping. It was a good time and a pretty good distraction for the most part. The car ride was a little rough though. We drove to a more distant town (where the cool stuff is), about an hour away, so any couple second lull in the conversation allowed me to be sad…She talked about the holes in her marriage, which she had done before….Two and a half months ago when she did this, I felt bad for her, because my marriage was so wonderful. (Or so I thought.) Now when I hear her talk, I think, boy, I WISH THOSE were MY problems. When we hung out 2 1/2 months ago, it was only DAYS after he cheated, but still hadn’t confessed. I had him on speaker in my car and she listened in…He knew this and didn’t put on a show—it was him being his normal self. She was so impressed with how loving he was and loved the sweet nickname that he called me after all these years. She couldn’t believe that we were so happy after all this time. She asked how long we had been married. I told her 27 years, anniversary just a few days ago. She was amazed and envious. I was proud and happy. I learned my lesson and will NEVER BRAG about my WH ever again.
> 
> Going to do some baking for family today. I used to love to bake…Haven’t done it in a long time, and now it doesn’t even sound like something I want to do. Feels like work, and I wish I hadn’t already made the promise to do it. I am going to force myself, though—gotta get out of this funk somehow.


So much tumultuousness happening. Listen. I am going to strongly advise you stop all face to face contact for the forseeable future.

May I ask, is the councelor a marriage/couples therapist? If so, I would stop that asap and have you both focus on IC for now. Your IC would hopefully be able to specialize in affair trauma recovery and his on some serious behavioral therapy. These are very different, very focused approaches. A couples conselor will do exactly what yours has done and jump the gun as their goal is to get you reunited. This is not what you need right now and will just cause more damage (witness your severe upset of late).

I would encourage you to not even talk by phone, but to write to one another by email. Writing makes you focus on what you are communicating. Writing allows you to do exactly what you are doing here and respond directly to specifict sentences and paragraphs. It gives you a record of what has been expressed in the past so you can compare as memory of conversations gets extremely foggy in stressful times and is subject to the whole "he said/she said" dynamic that is very counter productive. This will also allow you to keep your correspondences, highlight certains sections for furture discussions if you make to that stage once you feel you are ready. Then, down the road, when you do decide to meet with a marriage therapist (one who will hopefully NOT rug sweep the affair), you can bring up these writings for reference. In short, write, write, write. I am PMing a BH who is seperated and is actually snail mailing his CW as he needs the buffer time between correspondences to process. She is amenable to this and wants to give him whatever he needs to help his healing progress.

Just a note about this comment, *"I learned my lesson and will NEVER BRAG about my WH ever again." *This drips bitterness (you have every right to be right now) and it is as if you are sending a memo to your future self to never brag about your CH again (fyi, I dont like"wayward" as it sounds like they just got lost and stumbled off the trail somehow). Gently, truth is you dont know how you will feel about your CH in the future. Chances are, if you R, you will be able to communicate some positive things about him, but it will never be the blanket, glowing endorsment of him as your H again. This is a point that Waitedwaytoolong so eloquently addressed in one of his posts over at SI. When someone talked about how lucky he was to have his CW as his spouse (their friends and family did not know about her betrayal) it sent him down the rabbit hole and he talked about not ever being able to make those positive comments about her ever again. It was very sad and I related to a lot of it, thought he did D her 5 years after the A. I guess what I am saying is to do your best to not project and stay in the present as the present certainly has enough to deal with.

Your H is just one big trigger right now and he has SO much work to do on himself before he is safe for you to be around. It is doubtful at this point, based on your comments, that he even knows what to target in his thinking and behaviors that send you over the edge.

Have a better day Ma'am.


----------



## Openminded

Few cheaters want a divorce. They want life to quickly go back to normal “so we can move past this”. That was my experience anyway (in a failed R of many years). I felt in the beginning that it was better for me to get out but we had a minor child the first time he cheated so I reconsidered. I think the reason we didn’t ultimately work is that he excelled in saying all the right things but not in actually doing them. Not long-term anyway. Life was still all about him and what he wanted to do. Cheaters are obviously very selfish. Some do manage to get beyond that self-absorption but some never do. My exH carried all his baggage into his second marriage while continuing to tell me how much he wished things had been different. He just never got it. Maybe your husband will get it but that’s totally up to him.


----------



## snowbum

Respectfully, how has he changed on his own? Beyond words?


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> The craziest (or most confusing?) part of all of this is that HE behaves and speaks almost like something has been done TO HIM, which is most definitely NOT the case. He is not the victim, he is the perpetrator!
> He CHOSE THIS, and now gets to reap his rewards.
> 
> Side note: I spent hours making a dessert for which I have the recipe memorized. I messed it up a bunch, forgot a lot of steps…had to backtrack, and it doesn’t even taste good to me (normally a family favorite and one of my personal favorites), but I have eaten 3 or 4 servings of it anyway. Going to give it all away so that I don’t continue to stress/depression eat it anymore. It didn’t comfort me at all—which I knew it wouldn’t. 😔


That's utter crap! He should be bending backward , not you. As you rightly said, he brought all of this down on both of you. He doesn't get to be the victim, that's extremely manipulative and designed to shut you down.


----------



## Sfort

TXTrini said:


> 1.5mg melatonin? 😂
> I take 15-20 to get my mind to shut down to get to sleep. 10mg slow release, 5-10 sublingual quick dissolve.


<threadjack>
I used to take 5-10mg, and then I learned that, after a point, too much Melatonin keeps you awake and actually causes your body to make less naturally. I now take 1mg, and it works about as well as Ambien. Be careful taking these megadoses. Your body will thank you. 
</threadjack>


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> Had another rough night. Super angry and also depressed and crying.
> 
> I also learned some side effects of melatonin. For real. Look them up.
> 1. Anxiety
> 2. Diarrhea
> 3. Waking at the end of deep sleep cycle (3:00am)
> 
> These are things that are already happening ten-fold, so I am done with that shyte. (I had been taking only 1 of the z quil recommended 2 does with a 3mg of melatonin.). No more of that.
> 
> Gonna take a nap!


Try exercise. Go gentle at first.
No shortcuts around this phase, unfortunately. I lost 40 lbs in 2 months. Looked like a skeleton.


----------



## Jimi007

FWIW I used to take a drug called Restoril. 
I'm not sure if it's still available. But I did let me sleep when I had high anxiety. 😴


----------



## *Deidre*

Woundidwife said:


> The craziest (or most confusing?) part of all of this is that HE behaves and speaks almost like something has been done TO HIM, which is most definitely NOT the case. He is not the victim, he is the perpetrator!
> He CHOSE THIS, and now gets to reap his rewards.
> 
> Side note: I spent hours making a dessert for which I have the recipe memorized. I messed it up a bunch, forgot a lot of steps…had to backtrack, and it doesn’t even taste good to me (normally a family favorite and one of my personal favorites), but I have eaten 3 or 4 servings of it anyway. Going to give it all away so that I don’t continue to stress/depression eat it anymore. It didn’t comfort me at all—which I knew it wouldn’t. 😔


I think he acts like he's the victim, because he's used to getting his way with you. Now, you're standing up for yourself, and he is like...whoa, what's happening here? 

He's thinking he can make you feel guilty, and you'll cave. Keep staying strong.


----------



## Not

RE: him making himself out to be a victim. IMO, this proves he’s not even close to getting it. He truly doesn’t comprehend the level of damage you’re experiencing. Whether he’s doing this consciously or unconsciously doesn’t matter right now. He’s simply not where you need him to be so his access to your well-being needs to be removed.


----------



## Woundidwife

Not gonna lie. I am starting to stress about this weekend. 

We are just four days into a no contact separation, but WH comes to the house when I am at work to spend some peaceful time with our dog and away from the witch he calls his mother. He has been cleaning up after me, emptying the trash, washing the few dishes I have used, etc. all the things that I don’t have the energy or give-a-shyt about much anymore. That part, I have to admit, is very nice. I now know how nice it was for him to have an invisible maid for the last 27 years. 

However, THIS weekend will be only the second trip that I have EVER taken for my job—the same reason that I was gone in July for 5 days, when on day 3 WH went AWOL. I am starting to have anxiety about it now, which is a real shame, because in July, I was really looking forward to this October weekend. I met another woman who was a little older than me, but SOOO much like me (fun and funny, but also calm and not into the whole party scene) and we became best buds immediately. —So much so that—GET THIS: I was roomed with a very scholastic and prim woman at first, who was infatuated with a dude who was a creepy player, but somehow had strung her along. HE MOVED HIMSELF into OUR ROOM (the room the prim woman and I shared) and they slept in the same bedroom. I had a bedroom of my own, but we had one bathroom to share. Creepy Dude’s excuse was that he was roomed “near all the party action” and he wouldn’t be able to sleep. (I later noticed that he also made advances toward every woman there and gave off very skeevy vibes.) Obviously, as a HAPPILY MARRIED WOMAN who WAS ABOUT TO CELEBRATE HER 27th WEDDING ANNIVERSARY, and who told EVERY F-ING PERSON SHE SAW during the entire event, I was VERY UNCOMFORTABLE with the whole situation and I thought, “Oh, man, if my husband even THOUGHT something like this was happening anywhere near me, he would suspect I was doing something I shouldn’t be (double standard! 😡), or that I encouraged it, so I better not say anything to him about this.” So, I didn’t mention it to him. After a day or so, my new bestie’s original roommate had a family emergency and left. So when I spoke to her next, still creeped out and complaining, she told me to talk to the folks in charge, get a key and have an official room change—which had not occurred to me, as I am just used to dealing with and taking other people’s shyte. She had 2 bathrooms for just her! So I made some calls, and figured out how to make that happen. The folks in charge were really upset and very apologetic since that apparently is a standing rule, and they didn’t want people in the situation I was in or feeling the way I did. So, LITERALLY on the SAME DAY that I RAN AWAY from a sketchy situation, MY F-ING “HUSBAND” was DELIBERATELY DRIVING STRAIGHT INTO A MUCH WORSE ONE, and then INVITED A SKANK TO FOLLOW HIM SO THEY COULD F*** IN HER CAR. POS mother-f-er!

So anyway, I will be out of town for a few days, and he will have all the freedom he wants in our house. Who knows where he’ll leave his phone while he is f-ing the next one—at our house again, probably, so at least that is where he’ll want me to THINK it is anyway. I did tell him to let the next skank follow him to our house so he has a lot longer to realize WTF he is doing and come to his senses before pulling that BS again. 

DosEquis, you are 100% right. My WH IS ONE BIG TRIGGER right now. I am getting angrier by the minute just thinking about him and all the pain he has caused instead of actually being able to get out of my head and enjoy myself with my friend at a work event. I can’t even remember what he said to me about a week ago…something about me not “focusing on the positive”, which I took to mean I am not healing “the right way” in his eyes. I told him to go f*** someone else—that maybe I will get better at it with more practice. I know that wasn’t nice, but it sure felt good to say it. I have been pretty nasty some days, but the sad thing is that I don’t even know if that helps. I usually just end up feeling worse in the long run.

I had him tell my parents this week. I was angry enough that I didn’t turn into a hysterical mess, plus I am 2 months out now, so that is also probably why. My dad, who has been a hot-head my entire (and his entire) life was calm and kind. I don’t know what happened there, but he let me down. I was really hoping for thunder and lightning with a torrential downpour, but only got a misting. WH deserved so much worse. They were both KIND to him, of course it was the first time they had ever seen him defeated and broken, but he still deserved the works and got NONE of it. I was the only one who swore at him. He didn’t give any details and they didn’t want any. How else were they supposed to see what a lowlife he has become? WHAT ABSOLUTE HELL HE HAS PUT ME THROUGH? Do they still see him as upstanding and the “son they never had”? WHY would they be so nice to him?!

This did not help my anger situation, maybe made it worse. Not sure if I am also angry with myself or my dad or both parents…

Like I said. Got some anxiety building, but at least I will get to see my friend again and we have requested rooming together—which will be honored. 😊


----------



## lifeistooshort

WW, your hb is not a good candidate for reconciliation right now. That doesn't mean he won't ever be, just that he's not right now.

He doesn't get it. I once heard Dr Phil (not that I'm a huge fan, but I've seen some) say that women let things go when they think their hb "gets it". I think that's correct.

The focus on the positive crap is what I got from my ex. Things were always about him avoiding discomfort and I was supposed to accept his flimsy apology, paint a phony smile on my face and pretend. I was not allowed to be pissed off because it upset poor baby.

Your hb is still making this about him. He's defeated, he's upset, he can't live without you, he has to make sure you're safe.....everything is about hm. If he smothers and nags you enough maybe you'll cave and paint a phony smile on your face. But that's what will leave you with corrosive anger that will kill you inside. I know because I was there.

The fact is that you need to be free to be pissed off, free to be left alone, and free to cut him out of your life if that's what you want. He's fighting you for control here and if he actually backs off, lets you be pissed off, and stops trying to control everything you might be able to heal. My ex couldn't do that and I knew I was going to walk around pisses off for as long as I was with him. 

Your hb doesn't get it because everything is about him. If the day cones when he does get it you might be able to reconcile.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> Not gonna lie. I am starting to stress about this weekend.
> 
> We are just four days into a no contact separation, but WH comes to the house when I am at work to spend some peaceful time with our dog and away from the witch he calls his mother. He has been cleaning up after me, emptying the trash, washing the few dishes I have used, etc. all the things that I don’t have the energy or give-a-shyt about much anymore. That part, I have to admit, is very nice. I now know how nice it was for him to have an invisible maid for the last 27 years.
> 
> However, THIS weekend will be only the second trip that I have EVER taken for my job—the same reason that I was gone in July for 5 days, when on day 3 WH went AWOL. I am starting to have anxiety about it now, which is a real shame, because in July, I was really looking forward to this October weekend. I met another woman who was a little older than me, but SOOO much like me (fun and funny, but also calm and not into the whole party scene) and we became best buds immediately. —So much so that—GET THIS: I was roomed with a very scholastic and prim woman at first, who was infatuated with a dude who was a creepy player, but somehow had strung her along. HE MOVED HIMSELF into OUR ROOM (the room the prim woman and I shared) and they slept in the same bedroom. I had a bedroom of my own, but we had one bathroom to share. Creepy Dude’s excuse was that he was roomed “near all the party action” and he wouldn’t be able to sleep. (I later noticed that he also made advances toward every woman there and gave off very skeevy vibes.) Obviously, as a HAPPILY MARRIED WOMAN who WAS ABOUT TO CELEBRATE HER 27th WEDDING ANNIVERSARY, and who told EVERY F-ING PERSON SHE SAW during the entire event, I was VERY UNCOMFORTABLE with the whole situation and I thought, “Oh, man, if my husband even THOUGHT something like this was happening anywhere near me, he would suspect I was doing something I shouldn’t be (double standard! 😡), or that I encouraged it, so I better not say anything to him about this.” So, I didn’t mention it to him. After a day or so, my new bestie’s original roommate had a family emergency and left. So when I spoke to her next, still creeped out and complaining, she told me to talk to the folks in charge, get a key and have an official room change—which had not occurred to me, as I am just used to dealing with and taking other people’s shyte. She had 2 bathrooms for just her! So I made some calls, and figured out how to make that happen. The folks in charge were really upset and very apologetic since that apparently is a standing rule, and they didn’t want people in the situation I was in or feeling the way I did. So, LITERALLY on the SAME DAY that I RAN AWAY from a sketchy situation, MY F-ING “HUSBAND” was DELIBERATELY DRIVING STRAIGHT INTO A MUCH WORSE ONE, and then INVITED A SKANK TO FOLLOW HIM SO THEY COULD F*** IN HER CAR. POS mother-f-er!
> 
> So anyway, I will be out of town for a few days, and he will have all the freedom he wants in our house. Who knows where he’ll leave his phone while he is f-ing the next one—at our house again, probably, so at least that is where he’ll want me to THINK it is anyway. I did tell him to let the next skank follow him to our house so he has a lot longer to realize WTF he is doing and come to his senses before pulling that BS again.
> 
> DosEquis, you are 100% right. My WH IS ONE BIG TRIGGER right now. I am getting angrier by the minute just thinking about him and all the pain he has caused instead of actually being able to get out of my head and enjoy myself with my friend at a work event. I can’t even remember what he said to me about a week ago…something about me not “focusing on the positive”, which I took to mean I am not healing “the right way” in his eyes. I told him to go f*** someone else—that maybe I will get better at it with more practice. I know that wasn’t nice, but it sure felt good to say it. I have been pretty nasty some days, but the sad thing is that I don’t even know if that helps. I usually just end up feeling worse in the long run.
> 
> I had him tell my parents this week. I was angry enough that I didn’t turn into a hysterical mess, plus I am 2 months out now, so that is also probably why. My dad, who has been a hot-head my entire (and his entire) life was calm and kind. I don’t know what happened there, but he let me down. I was really hoping for thunder and lightning with a torrential downpour, but only got a misting. WH deserved so much worse. They were both KIND to him, of course it was the first time they had ever seen him defeated and broken, but he still deserved the works and got NONE of it. I was the only one who swore at him. He didn’t give any details and they didn’t want any. How else were they supposed to see what a lowlife he has become? WHAT ABSOLUTE HELL HE HAS PUT ME THROUGH? Do they still see him as upstanding and the “son they never had”? WHY would they be so nice to him?!
> 
> This did not help my anger situation, maybe made it worse. Not sure if I am also angry with myself or my dad or both parents…
> 
> Like I said. Got some anxiety building, but at least I will get to see my friend again and we have requested rooming together—which will be honored. 😊


Did your parents at least feel bad for you and offer YOU their support, regardless of what happens? (Is he really acting so pathetic that people think he needs the support more than you do. 🙄 )

Have a really, really good time on your trip. Put all this out of your mind for awhile, and don’t worry about him and what he does. You’ve already survived the worst, just knowing that should give you some assurance that you are stronger than you think. Enjoy your friends and your work, eat good food and mingle. With everyone. 🙂


----------



## TXTrini

Wow what a trip! Now you understand why some of us look at cheaters as another species. We simply view and handle things differently. I'm sorry your parents let you down, I have an inkling of how that feels, but not quite. I remember telling some close family about what happened, within a week of DD who weren't particularly supportive. In fact, they proceeded to put on a romantic comedy, while my world was ending, I still remember that over 3 years later. They probably didn't know what to say.

You're probably angry with them all, and that's ok. Anger is good, it's one of the stages of grief you must pass through to reconcile the grief. Your marriage died, and even if you do reconcile, you have to start over, but running uphill.... in a sewer, trying not to swallow poop all the way.


----------



## Jimi007

I'm curious , did you really expect your father to yell , scream and ***** slap your husband ? You are so Angry that you now just want to Punish your husband . 
Punishing him is not going to solve anything. It's going to make things worse going forward. Albeit, it will only make you feel better. 

But what will it really solve ? Nothing. 

He knows how you feel, he knows what he did. Beating him to death with Anger will only drive him away. 

But maybe that's what you really want. 

You wouldn't parent a child that way. Your husband is not a child . 

I don't understand why others say he doesn't get it ? Because in my opinion they are leading you by the nose (fueling the fire ) in a direction of divorce .

Just a different perspective 😌 

Yeah I get your beyond pissed. What if he never told you ?

But he did...


----------



## Woundidwife

Jimi007 said:


> I'm curious , did you really expect your father to yell , scream and *** slap your husband ? You are so Angry that you now just want to Punish your husband .
> Punishing him is not going to solve anything. It's going to make things worse going forward. Albeit, it will only make you feel better.
> 
> But what will it really solve ? Nothing.
> 
> He knows how you feel, he knows what he did. Beating him to death with Anger will only drive him away.
> 
> But maybe that's what you really want.
> 
> You wouldn't parent a child that way. Your husband is not a child .
> 
> I don't understand why others say he doesn't get it ? Because in my opinion they are leading you by the nose (fueling the fire ) in a direction of divorce .
> 
> Just a different perspective 😌
> 
> Yeah I get your beyond pissed. What if he never told you ?
> 
> But he did...


You”re right. He DID tell me. So there’s that…Not really happy to award him brownie points for f-ing a skank, and f-ing up my life (and our lives) though….but whether I can ever forgive this colossal f-up and swallow it enough to live without resenting him for the rest of my life? Well, those are the things that I am struggling with most. 

Yes, I STILL want to punish him at this point (not sure how or if I will get past that either)…Which is another reason for the separation. I am so angry half the time, and all I seem to want to do lately is take it out on him—which is where the anger SHOULD be directed at least, but it makes me feel terrible, and NOT because he doesn’t deserve it—because he ABSOLUTELY DOES IMO—but because it isn’t who I am. It also hurts ME, and I don’t deserve that. I know that I have to “work through” the anger, but behaving in this way is very upsetting to me. I am NOT an angry person. I am loving and fun…well, at least I was. I now feel depressed and withdrawn, but I must have perfected my “nothing to see here folks” expression through my years of living with his emotional abuse, because no one at my job has any clue. It’s sad to feel so unnoticed and isolated. I am certain that his newly withdrawn and less-alpha behavior has been noticed at his job, but I am just as certain that no one would have the b*lls to ask him or talk about it. His co-workers HAVE to know something is going on.

He has alluded to the fact that I may be pushing him away (whether he believes it is intentional or not). It is not. I am just REALLY F-ING ANGRY, and of course, I have every right to be. I have no idea how long I will feel this way. I didn’t COOSE any of this, and I am reading every self help book under the sun—following even the seemingly strangest suggestions—very interesting and most helpful book Megaforce, thank you!—for how to begin my own healing and be comfortable in my own skin again, with only me to rely on. If I can help it, I will never feel that I NEED another person again. I should be all that I need to be happy and anything else is a bonus. Clearly, though, I have to heal myself BEFORE I can even truly consider forgiveness. My head is just not there yet.

I know it is too early, and I am way too raw to know for sure whether I am even capable of forgiving him or not, so I am still trying, but it is SOOO HARD. I also know that if we do R, I will be expected to truly forgive and NOT ever use this situation as ammo in arguments. I am 100% sure THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. I already know that the 50/50 (emotional control) relationship that we SHOULD have had all along will NEVER happen. It has been (at minimum!) 70/30 in his favor for 27 years, so obviously, THAT is what I want and deserve, but in the opposite direction this time, for our next 27 years. Seems fair to me.


----------



## Jimi007

Woundidwife said:


> You”re right. He DID tell me. So there’s that…Not really happy to award him brownie points for f-ing a skank, and f-ing up my life (and our lives) though….but whether I can ever forgive this colossal f-up and swallow it enough to live without resenting him for the rest of my life? Well, those are the things that I am struggling with most. I know it is too early, and I am way too raw to know for sure whether I am capable of forgiving him or not, so I am still trying, but it is SOOO HARD. I also know that if we do R, I will be expected to truly forgive and NOT ever use this situation as ammo in arguments. I am 100% sure THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. I already know that the 50/50 (emotional control) relationship that we SHOULD have had all along will NEVER happen. It has been (at minimum!) 70/30 in his favor for 27 years, so obviously, THAT is what I want and deserve, but in the opposite direction this time, for our next 27 years. Seems fair to me.


That is exactly my point , you will hold it over his head forever...You said so yourself. That's not what R is about. I guess in your current AND moving forward punishment mode maybe you should just end it instead of putting you both thru further damage. 

I know that you can't and never will stop blaming the " Skank "...for ruining your marriage. But truly it was all about choices.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> He has alluded to the fact that I may be pushing him away (whether he believes it is intentional or not). It is not. I am just REALLY F-ING ANGRY, and of course, I have every right to be. I have no idea how long I will feel this way. I didn’t COOSE any of this, and I am reading every self help book under the sun—following even the seemingly strangest suggestions—very interesting and most helpful book Megaforce, thank you!—for how to begin my own healing and be comfortable in my own skin again, with only me to rely on. If I can help it, I will never feel that I NEED another person again. I should be all that I need to be happy and anything else is a bonus. Clearly, though, I have to heal myself BEFORE I can even truly consider forgiveness. My head is just not there yet


I see you fighting very hard to force yourself to change, to deal with this, to get to a place of R with your wayward. And I applaud your efforts to do that. A spouse that will fight so hard, even through the bitterness and anger, is a real treasure.

But I have to ask. Is he fighting just as hard as you are to save your marriage? I don’t get the sense that he is. Why not?

If you are ever going to be able to R, then HE needs to step up to the plate and help you heal. He is the one that needs to change, not you. You do not have to “get over it”. He needs to carry you. He needs to nurture every single thing in you that needs it, and take any bit of anger that you have.

He needs to be moving heaven and earth to save your marriage.

Take for example this trip you have. He should be planning to send you texts every moment of the day, selfies of where he’s at and what he’s doing, phone calls, FaceTimes, location info from his phone…all the things (and more) that you would need to have confidence in him. And it should be his idea to do that to help you.

I just hate to see all your pain and anger and fighting spirit all trying so hard to move the needle toward R when he’s just taking out the trash and doing dishes. 

And oh, he’s not banging a skank either so there’s that effort we don’t want to forget. /s


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Not gonna lie. I am starting to stress about this weekend.
> 
> We are just four days into a no contact separation, but WH comes to the house when I am at work to spend some peaceful time with our dog and away from the witch he calls his mother. He has been cleaning up after me, emptying the trash, washing the few dishes I have used, etc. all the things that I don’t have the energy or give-a-shyt about much anymore. That part, I have to admit, is very nice. I now know how nice it was for him to have an invisible maid for the last 27 years.
> 
> However, THIS weekend will be only the second trip that I have EVER taken for my job—the same reason that I was gone in July for 5 days, when on day 3 WH went AWOL. I am starting to have anxiety about it now, which is a real shame, because in July, I was really looking forward to this October weekend. I met another woman who was a little older than me, but SOOO much like me (fun and funny, but also calm and not into the whole party scene) and we became best buds immediately. —So much so that—GET THIS: I was roomed with a very scholastic and prim woman at first, who was infatuated with a dude who was a creepy player, but somehow had strung her along. HE MOVED HIMSELF into OUR ROOM (the room the prim woman and I shared) and they slept in the same bedroom. I had a bedroom of my own, but we had one bathroom to share. Creepy Dude’s excuse was that he was roomed “near all the party action” and he wouldn’t be able to sleep. (I later noticed that he also made advances toward every woman there and gave off very skeevy vibes.) Obviously, as a HAPPILY MARRIED WOMAN who WAS ABOUT TO CELEBRATE HER 27th WEDDING ANNIVERSARY, and who told EVERY F-ING PERSON SHE SAW during the entire event, I was VERY UNCOMFORTABLE with the whole situation and I thought, “Oh, man, if my husband even THOUGHT something like this was happening anywhere near me, he would suspect I was doing something I shouldn’t be (double standard! 😡), or that I encouraged it, so I better not say anything to him about this.” So, I didn’t mention it to him. After a day or so, my new bestie’s original roommate had a family emergency and left. So when I spoke to her next, still creeped out and complaining, she told me to talk to the folks in charge, get a key and have an official room change—which had not occurred to me, as I am just used to dealing with and taking other people’s shyte. She had 2 bathrooms for just her! So I made some calls, and figured out how to make that happen. The folks in charge were really upset and very apologetic since that apparently is a standing rule, and they didn’t want people in the situation I was in or feeling the way I did. So, LITERALLY on the SAME DAY that I RAN AWAY from a sketchy situation, MY F-ING “HUSBAND” was DELIBERATELY DRIVING STRAIGHT INTO A MUCH WORSE ONE, and then INVITED A SKANK TO FOLLOW HIM SO THEY COULD F*** IN HER CAR. POS mother-f-er!
> 
> So anyway, I will be out of town for a few days, and he will have all the freedom he wants in our house. Who knows where he’ll leave his phone while he is f-ing the next one—at our house again, probably, so at least that is where he’ll want me to THINK it is anyway. I did tell him to let the next skank follow him to our house so he has a lot longer to realize WTF he is doing and come to his senses before pulling that BS again.
> 
> DosEquis, you are 100% right. My WH IS ONE BIG TRIGGER right now. I am getting angrier by the minute just thinking about him and all the pain he has caused instead of actually being able to get out of my head and enjoy myself with my friend at a work event. I can’t even remember what he said to me about a week ago…something about me not “focusing on the positive”, which I took to mean I am not healing “the right way” in his eyes. I told him to go f*** someone else—that maybe I will get better at it with more practice. I know that wasn’t nice, but it sure felt good to say it. I have been pretty nasty some days, but the sad thing is that I don’t even know if that helps. I usually just end up feeling worse in the long run.
> 
> I had him tell my parents this week. I was angry enough that I didn’t turn into a hysterical mess, plus I am 2 months out now, so that is also probably why. My dad, who has been a hot-head my entire (and his entire) life was calm and kind. I don’t know what happened there, but he let me down. I was really hoping for thunder and lightning with a torrential downpour, but only got a misting. WH deserved so much worse. They were both KIND to him, of course it was the first time they had ever seen him defeated and broken, but he still deserved the works and got NONE of it. I was the only one who swore at him. He didn’t give any details and they didn’t want any. How else were they supposed to see what a lowlife he has become? WHAT ABSOLUTE HELL HE HAS PUT ME THROUGH? Do they still see him as upstanding and the “son they never had”? WHY would they be so nice to him?!
> 
> This did not help my anger situation, maybe made it worse. Not sure if I am also angry with myself or my dad or both parents…
> 
> Like I said. Got some anxiety building, but at least I will get to see my friend again and we have requested rooming together—which will be honored. 😊


Hear you loud and clear WW. Loud and clear. Your posts remind me of Beyondrage over at SI....you should read his threads. Understandably, you are one PO'd BW.

Your CHs "encouragement" to you to focus on the positive is, once again, an illustration if the thickheadedness of cheaters. Yeh, wrong answer buddy. He's not getting it. The empathy is missing and it is concerning. His response as a truly remorseful spouse should be:

• Be mad at me as long as you need to, I deserve it

• I dont deserve any sympathy...I am the one who destroyed us

• What more can I do to help you heal?

• Ill be here, working on my warped soul, as long as it takes to get myself right again and will work my ass off to gain just a modicum of your love and respect back.

• Take all the time you need away from me to start your healing. I am devestated that I have done this to you.

• *NOT, "LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE*"

Let me give you an illustration that may help put things in perspective for him. I gleaned this from another BH in a long term marriage and it really helped me think about how I felt concerning betrayal.

He said to his CW;

"*Do you know what you get when you pour a cup of toilet water into a fine bottle of wine?*

_*Answer: Toilet water.

Do you know what you get when you pour a fine bottle of wine into a toilet bowl?

Answer: Toilet water.*_

*I dont drink toilet water."*

He went on to say that their long standing marriage was the fine bottle of wine and was now ruined in his eyes....never to be the same again. Could it become something acceptable? He didnt know and wasnt sure he wanted to try. His illustration helped his CW get it. She finally understood the import of what she had done through *his* eyes. It was then that she started becoming truly remoresful, truly empathetic.

Hope that helps.

Now listen, a word of caution to you about this work trip. You are massively emotionally compromised right now (no shyte sherlock, right?). Please take care and beware the POSs that are constantly on the prowl for women who are emotionally hurting. I like TXTrini's description here, *"Now you understand why some of us look at cheaters as another species."* Yeh, they're another species all right, as in mutants. Not going to beat this into the ground, just beware the player/mutants, all right?

Your anger will burn low, but I am concerned for you as to what will take its place when it does. Keep fortifying yourself as best you can. Keep venting here. I hope this trip really is a good one for you and that youll be able to overcome the trigger that it obviously represents and enjoy the time.

Again, I wish you strength, healing and clarity ma'am.

~ DE


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Woundidwife said:


> You”re right. He DID tell me. So there’s that…Not really happy to award him brownie points for f-ing a skank, and f-ing up my life (and our lives) though….but whether I can ever forgive this colossal f-up and swallow it enough to live without resenting him for the rest of my life? Well, those are the things that I am struggling with most.
> 
> Yes, I STILL want to punish him at this point (not sure how or if I will get past that either)…Which is another reason for the separation. I am so angry half the time, and all I seem to want to do lately is take it out on him—which is where the anger SHOULD be directed at least, but it makes me feel terrible, and NOT because he doesn’t deserve it—because he ABSOLUTELY DOES IMO—but because it isn’t who I am. It also hurts ME, and I don’t deserve that. I know that I have to “work through” the anger, but behaving in this way is very upsetting to me. I am NOT an angry person. I am loving and fun…well, at least I was. I now feel depressed and withdrawn, but I must have perfected my “nothing to see here folks” expression through my years of living with his emotional abuse, because no one at my job has any clue. It’s sad to feel so unnoticed and isolated. I am certain that his newly withdrawn and less-alpha behavior has been noticed at his job, but I am just as certain that no one would have the b*lls to ask him or talk about it. His co-workers HAVE to know something is going on.
> 
> He has alluded to the fact that I may be pushing him away (whether he believes it is intentional or not). It is not. I am just REALLY F-ING ANGRY, and of course, I have every right to be. I have no idea how long I will feel this way. I didn’t COOSE any of this, and I am reading every self help book under the sun—following even the seemingly strangest suggestions—very interesting and most helpful book Megaforce, thank you!—for how to begin my own healing and be comfortable in my own skin again, with only me to rely on. If I can help it, I will never feel that I NEED another person again. I should be all that I need to be happy and anything else is a bonus. Clearly, though, I have to heal myself BEFORE I can even truly consider forgiveness. My head is just not there yet.
> 
> I know it is too early, and I am way too raw to know for sure whether I am even capable of forgiving him or not, so I am still trying, but it is SOOO HARD. I also know that if we do R, I will be expected to truly forgive and NOT ever use this situation as ammo in arguments. I am 100% sure THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. I already know that the 50/50 (emotional control) relationship that we SHOULD have had all along will NEVER happen. It has been (at minimum!) 70/30 in his favor for 27 years, so obviously, THAT is what I want and deserve, but in the opposite direction this time, for our next 27 years. Seems fair to me.


With all this, kindly, it sure sounds best to kick him out and D. He also shouldn't be coming to the house and playing with dog. If you're serious about your level of unhappiness. 

Because at some point if a R is your goal you will have to move past this, never forget it of course but it can't be a daily topic if a R is your goal.

Because if you keep bringing yourself to a boil daily on this, R or D, it will on you that the stress is omnipresent in your life. That's kindly meant, just a reality of life. 

One does have to choose to move past the briers and sand spurs encountered in life not stay rolling in them and complaining over and over and over when it is possible to keep moving out of the brush and take steps towards greener pastures.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Hear you loud and clear WW. Loud and clear. Your posts remind me of Beyondrage over at SI....you should read his threads. Understandably, you are one PO'd BW.
> 
> Your CHs "encouragement" to you to focus on the positive is, once again, an illustration if the thickheadedness of cheaters. Yeh, wrong answer buddy. He's not getting it. The empathy is missing and it is concerning. His response as a truly remorseful spouse should be:
> 
> • Be mad at me as long as you need to, I deserve it
> 
> • I dont deserve any sympathy...I am the one who destroyed us
> 
> • What more can I do to help you heal?
> 
> • Ill be here, working on my warped soul, as long as it takes to get myself right again and will work my ass off to gain just a modicum of your love and respect back.
> 
> • Take all the time you need away from me to start your healing. I am devestated that I have done this to you.
> 
> • *NOT, "LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE*"
> 
> Let me give you an illustration that may help put things in perspective for him. I gleaned this from another BH in a long term marriage and it really helped me think about how I felt concerning betrayal.
> 
> He said to his CW;
> 
> "*Do you know what you get when you pour a cup of toilet water into a fine bottle of wine?*
> 
> _*Answer: Toilet water.
> 
> Do you know what you get when you pour a fine bottle of wine into a toilet bowl?
> 
> Answer: Toilet water.*_
> 
> *I dont drink toilet water."*
> 
> He went on to say that their long standing marriage was the fine bottle of wine and was now ruined in his eyes....never to be the same again. Could it become something acceptable? He didnt know and wasnt sure he wanted to try. His illustration helped his CW get it. She finally understood the import of what she had done through *his* eyes. It was then that she started becoming truly remoresful, truly empathetic.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> Now listen, a word of caution to you about this work trip. You are massively emotionally compromised right now (no shyte sherlock, right?). Please take care and beware the POSs that are constantly on the prowl for women who are emotionally hurting. I like TXTrini's description here, *"Now you understand why some of us look at cheaters as another species."* Yeh, they're another species all right, as in mutants. Not going to beat this into the ground, just beware the player/mutants, all right?
> 
> Your anger will burn low, but I am concerned for you as to what will take its place when it does. Keep fortifying yourself as best you can. Keep venting here. I hope this trip really is a good one for you and that youll be able to overcome the trigger that it obviously represents and enjoy the time.
> 
> Again, I wish you strength, healing and clarity ma'am.
> 
> ~ DE


He is saying and finally doing all of the things you said he should be, but also that other shyte comes out sometimes too.

I hear you about the trip. My friend will keep me occupied and will be a welcome distraction, I am sure.


----------



## Woundidwife

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> With all this, kindly, it sure sounds best to kick him out and D. He also shouldn't be coming to the house and playing with dog. If you're serious about your level of unhappiness.
> 
> Because at some point if a R is your goal you will have to move past this, never forget it of course but it can't be a daily topic if a R is your goal.
> 
> Because if you keep bringing yourself to a boil daily on this, R or D, it will on you that the stress is omnipresent in your life. That's kindly meant, just a reality of life.
> 
> One does have to choose to move past the briers and sand spurs encountered in life not stay rolling in them and complaining over and over and over when it is possible to keep moving out of the brush and take steps towards greener pastures.


I hear you there, too, but our dog also didn’t choose this and I am pretty sure she loves him more than she does me. He left the house, but she shouldn’t have to. I am okay with this.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Woundidwife said:


> I hear you there, too, but our dog also didn’t choose this and I am pretty sure she loves him more than she does me. He left the house, but she shouldn’t have to. I am okay with this.


Him coming only to visit the dog yet have full reign into your house if you want to be separate from H doesn't really make sense. Then give him the dog perhaps.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> He is saying and finally doing all of the things you said he should be, but also that other shyte comes out sometimes too.
> 
> I hear you about the trip. My friend will keep me occupied and will be a welcome distraction, I am sure.


Good to hear on both counts (mostly).


----------



## bobert

TexasMom1216 said:


> Is it a good idea to have his IC also be the marital counselor? Seems like there would be a conflict of interest.


No, it is not. It's not ethical and no good therapist would be both the IC and MC.

My wife and I both have separate IC's, and a MC. We have both talked to her IC at times, we have both talked to my IC at times, she has talked alone with my IC at times, and we have both talked to the MC alone at times, but it's limited and only done when beneficial. Even three of my kids each have their own IC's, they don't share one. 

@Woundidwife NEEDS to find her own IC, then a new MC down the road IF she decides to R.


----------



## *Deidre*

I agree with others who say that your husband doesn't get it. Cleaning up a few dishes, and being a decent human being is the bare minimum in any marriage. It would take a long, sustained 'action plan' so to speak, for him to really show you that he has changed. My fear for you, is that he demonstrates the bare minimum, and you reconcile, and it goes back to you being the 'invisible maid,' and the status quo. 

Instead of focusing on him, perhaps focus on what life could really look like without him, and what goals and dreams you might be able to accomplish. 

Stay brave! ⭐


----------



## Openminded

You’ll never know for certain if his change is 100% real. Can you live that way for the remainder of the marriage? Some can. Unfortunately, it turned out that I was not one of them (I very much wanted to be). Only you know if you might be able to do that.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> He is saying and finally doing all of the things you said he should be, but also that other shyte comes out sometimes too.
> 
> I hear you about the trip. My friend will keep me occupied and will be a welcome distraction, I am sure.


 I’m sure he’s getting a lot of good ideas on the “right” things to say from reading your thread, still doesn’t mean he can erase history or change his character. (And I suspect he might have not been the greatest husband before the affair)

Sometimes, no matter what the person who betrayed you does, you just don’t have the personality or ability to reconcile. That doesn’t mean there is something wrong with you or that you are weak, but you can’t force yourself to be a person who can do so if it’s not who you are. Don’t let anyone tell you that you have the obligation to reconcile “because he confessed”, including yourself. He did after all confess _after_ exposing you to diseases and waited until _he_ was ready and could adjust his story accordingly. He still trickle-truthed and minimized and controlled the narrative, you didn’t get the whole truth and nothing but the truth the first, or second or third time even. And you STILL feel you’re missing a lot of information. Confessing the life changing betrayal does not make it more palatable or acceptable.

You have to figure out if you can live with this, regardless of what he does. If there are people who think he’s so wonderful to reconcile with, maybe they should go take him on a date. They don’t have to sleep next to him and can’t know what it feels like to be in your shoes. 

It’s ok to have boundaries and standards, Woundedwife. It’s ok to be away from him and hate him and be angry and wish he would suffer. This is what you feel, and you’re allowed to feel it. He is entitled to nothing.


----------



## TXTrini

Jimi007 said:


> I'm curious , did you really expect your father to yell , scream and *** slap your husband ? You are so Angry that you now just want to Punish your husband .
> Punishing him is not going to solve anything. It's going to make things worse going forward. Albeit, it will only make you feel better.
> 
> But what will it really solve ? Nothing.
> 
> He knows how you feel, he knows what he did. Beating him to death with Anger will only drive him away.
> 
> But maybe that's what you really want.
> 
> You wouldn't parent a child that way. Your husband is not a child .
> 
> I don't understand why others say he doesn't get it ? Because in my opinion they are leading you by the nose (fueling the fire ) in a direction of divorce .
> 
> Just a different perspective 😌
> 
> Yeah I get your beyond pissed. What if he never told you ?
> 
> But he did...


So what if he confessed? He deserves a cookie? I'm curious why he chose to, maybe someone saw him and he was afraid they were going to out him, so he threw himself at Woundid's mercy first.

No-one's encouraging divorce, we're encouraging Woundid to get herself straight, her WH's feeling is no longer a priority. She can't make any good decisions for herself until she gets her **** together. If he doesn't like the way things are, then maybe he should have did his thinking with his big head and not put them in this position in the first place.


----------



## TexasMom1216

TXTrini said:


> So what if he confessed? He deserves a cookie? I'm curious why he chose to, maybe someone saw him and he was afraid they were going to out him, so he threw himself at Woundid's mercy first.
> 
> No-one's encouraging divorce, we're encouraging Woundid to get herself straight, her WH's feeling is no longer a priority. She can't make any good decisions for herself until she gets her **** together. If he doesn't like the way things are, then maybe he should have did his thinking with his big head and not put them in this position in the first place.


Right? He cheated on her and that poster is arguing that she needs to be careful and not be too angry or stand up for herself or she will "drive him away." He didn't care about driving her away when he cheated. I wonder if that guy's wife cheated on him, how worried he would be about "driving her away."

The OP has me on ignore because I AM encouraging divorce. He's an unfaithful husband and she deserves better. If it were reversed and she'd cheated on him, every one of those guys would be encouraging the heck out of divorce. They certainly wouldn't tell a man "look at least she told you" or "she knows what she did, no need to keep bringing it up."


----------



## TXTrini

TexasMom1216 said:


> Right? He cheated on her and that poster is arguing that she needs to be careful and not be too angry or stand up for herself or she will "drive him away." He didn't care about driving her away when he cheated. I wonder if that guy's wife cheated on him, how worried he would be about "driving her away."


I don't know about that, but I'm always suspicious of people who are too cavalier with infidelity and their motives. Even so, he does make a good point in another post. You can't keep throwing infidelity in someone's face and have a marriage survive. The trouble is, his and Woundid's WS timeslines are completely inconsiderate of her needs. How does anyone expect her to forgive and forget? At this point, that would be rug sweeping, and probably hurt her more in the long run.

When a marriage implodes in such a hostile fashion, it's every man for himself. It's really hard to be impartial and unemotional to make good decisions when your partner stabbed you in the back. It completely destroys your image of them, your marriage, and your entire life. It makes you question your judgment and every single decision you make.

You wonder who it is occupying their body, because surely it couldn't be them, you try to fix things, get them to see reason like it's a passing disease. But no matter what you do, the facts remain unchanged that this person is not who you think they were. So unless, you get yourself together, and find a way to forgive them, and then see if you might like the new person who showed up, there's no way true reconciliation should ever be on the table this soon. You don't know what you're forgiving or who the real person you married is just yet. 

I think WS can't understand this because they know exactly who their spouses are, and that they'd never do that. They know very well who and what they are, and how likely/unlikey they are to change into someone with acceptable moral values. Hence the panic and pressure for her to "be over this already" and work on their marriage. (Woundid's business trip story is evidence) If the shoe was on the other foot, how do you think he'd be reacting right now?


----------



## *Deidre*

Woundidwife said:


> You”re right. He DID tell me. So there’s that…Not really happy to award him brownie points for f-ing a skank, and f-ing up my life (and our lives) though….but whether I can ever forgive this colossal f-up and swallow it enough to live without resenting him for the rest of my life? Well, those are the things that I am struggling with most.
> 
> Yes, I STILL want to punish him at this point (not sure how or if I will get past that either)…Which is another reason for the separation. I am so angry half the time, and all I seem to want to do lately is take it out on him—which is where the anger SHOULD be directed at least, but it makes me feel terrible, and NOT because he doesn’t deserve it—because he ABSOLUTELY DOES IMO—but because it isn’t who I am. It also hurts ME, and I don’t deserve that. I know that I have to “work through” the anger, but behaving in this way is very upsetting to me. I am NOT an angry person. I am loving and fun…well, at least I was. I now feel depressed and withdrawn, but I must have perfected my “nothing to see here folks” expression through my years of living with his emotional abuse, because no one at my job has any clue. It’s sad to feel so unnoticed and isolated. I am certain that his newly withdrawn and less-alpha behavior has been noticed at his job, but I am just as certain that no one would have the b*lls to ask him or talk about it. His co-workers HAVE to know something is going on.
> 
> He has alluded to the fact that I may be pushing him away (whether he believes it is intentional or not). It is not. I am just REALLY F-ING ANGRY, and of course, I have every right to be. I have no idea how long I will feel this way. I didn’t COOSE any of this, and I am reading every self help book under the sun—following even the seemingly strangest suggestions—very interesting and most helpful book Megaforce, thank you!—for how to begin my own healing and be comfortable in my own skin again, with only me to rely on. If I can help it, I will never feel that I NEED another person again. I should be all that I need to be happy and anything else is a bonus. Clearly, though, I have to heal myself BEFORE I can even truly consider forgiveness. My head is just not there yet.
> 
> I know it is too early, and I am way too raw to know for sure whether I am even capable of forgiving him or not, so I am still trying, but it is SOOO HARD. I also know that if we do R, I will be expected to truly forgive and NOT ever use this situation as ammo in arguments. I am 100% sure THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. I already know that the 50/50 (emotional control) relationship that we SHOULD have had all along will NEVER happen. It has been (at minimum!) 70/30 in his favor for 27 years, so obviously, THAT is what I want and deserve, but in the opposite direction this time, for our next 27 years. Seems fair to me.


I think what may be happening is, your entire identity is wrapped up in your marriage, and that of what your husband thinks of you. Cheating is a devastating thing, and I think it is because the betrayed believe if only they were thinner, prettier, better in bed, more willing, or a whole host of other things, that the cheating wouldn't have happened. I know you probably know that's not true, but it is deep inside your mind.

Once you stop viewing yourself only through the lens of being ''his wife,'' and start creating a new identity, you'll be able to see this more objectively. That will take time, and you can't allow yourself to be influenced by him. Just keep staying strong, you're doing great. These emotions will come and go.


----------



## Cynthia

bobert said:


> No, it is not. It's not ethical and no good therapist would be both the IC and MC.


I disagree.
I don't have any issues with having three separate therapists, but it's not unethical for a therapist to counsel both husband and wife while doing marriage counseling, if that's what the couple wants and likes. Personally, my husband I have done this and it was very helpful for us to be able to speak to the therapist individually and for him to hear both our perspectives in individual counseling, so that when we were in marriage counseling he had a deeper understanding of each of us. It worked very well for my husband and I.
Another reason why a couple might want one therapist is that it's a lot harder to lie and manipulate when your individual therapist is also your marriage counselor.
I'm not saying it's better to have one counselor or that Woundidwife should stick with the same counselor. I'm saying that it works very well for some couples. Not so much for others.


----------



## Cynthia

@Woundidwife, I'm very sorry this has happened to you. Your anger is understandable.
When you've already been supressing our own needs to keep your husband happy and he does something like this, all those years of supression suddenly come roaring back and you see how unbalanced the relationship has been. It will take you some time to work through all of this.
Yes, you may push your husband away, but he broke the marriage by putting himself into another woman and then into you without you having any idea. That is horrifying and gross. You thought at least you were safe sexually, then you find out that you weren't. It's a huge violation, on so many levels. If your anger over your husband's betrayal and violation drives him away, then so be it. If that happens, you will know that reconcilliation wouldn't be possible, because he is unwilling to deal with the fallout from his betrayal. I don't see your anger as any kind of punishment. It's you expressing your understandable rage. Frankly, I think he needs to experience your rage, otherwise, how will he have a clue what he's really done to you?


----------



## TexasMom1216

Cynthia said:


> I disagree.
> I don't have any issues with having three separate therapists, but it's not unethical for a therapist to counsel both husband and wife while doing marriage counseling, if that's what the couple wants and likes. Personally, my husband I have done this and it was very helpful for us to be able to speak to the therapist individually and for him to hear both our perspectives in individual counseling, so that when we were in marriage counseling he had a deeper understanding of each of us. It worked very well for my husband and I.
> Another reason why a couple might want one therapist is that it's a lot harder to lie and manipulate when your individual therapist is also your marriage counselor.
> I'm not saying it's better to have one counselor or that Woundidwife should stick with the same counselor. I'm saying that it works very well for some couples. Not so much for others.


It is also possible that your therapist was more ethical. 😬 WW said that her therapist keeps changing the rules on her. There could be a problem with THAT therapist specifically. Because I see what you're saying about sharing a therapist for marriage counseling and that makes a lot of sense. I wonder if this situation or perhaps just this particular therapist is different or problematic...


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## bobert

Cynthia said:


> I disagree.
> I don't have any issues with having three separate therapists, but it's not unethical for a therapist to counsel both husband and wife while doing marriage counseling, if that's what the couple wants and likes. Personally, my husband I have done this and it was very helpful for us to be able to speak to the therapist individually and for him to hear both our perspectives in individual counseling, so that when we were in marriage counseling he had a deeper understanding of each of us. It worked very well for my husband and I.
> Another reason why a couple might want one therapist is that it's a lot harder to lie and manipulate when your individual therapist is also your marriage counselor.
> I'm not saying it's better to have one counselor or that Woundidwife should stick with the same counselor. I'm saying that it works very well for some couples. Not so much for others.





Cynthia said:


> I disagree.
> I don't have any issues with having three separate therapists, but it's not unethical for a therapist to counsel both husband and wife while doing marriage counseling, if that's what the couple wants and likes. Personally, my husband I have done this and it was very helpful for us to be able to speak to the therapist individually and for him to hear both our perspectives in individual counseling, so that when we were in marriage counseling he had a deeper understanding of each of us. It worked very well for my husband and I.
> Another reason why a couple might want one therapist is that it's a lot harder to lie and manipulate when your individual therapist is also your marriage counselor.
> I'm not saying it's better to have one counselor or that Woundidwife should stick with the same counselor. I'm saying that it works very well for some couples. Not so much for others.


Many therapists, most if not all that I have talked to, would disagree with you. 

The reasons you stated above are why my wife and I have talked individually with our MC, together with my IC, and her alone with my IC. You can have all therapists "know" you without being your IC.


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## Cynthia

TexasMom1216 said:


> It is also possible that your therapist was more ethical. 😬 WW said that her therapist keeps changing the rules on her. There could be a problem with THAT therapist specifically. Because I see what you're saying about sharing a therapist for marriage counseling and that makes a lot of sense. I wonder if this situation or perhaps just this particular therapist is different or problematic...


Yes, he is an excellent therapist. I would recommend him and wouldn't hesitate to go back to him.
I was specifically responding to the comment that sharing a therapist for IC and marriage counseling is unethical. I would not stick with the therapist that Woundidwife has. She seems scattered and her recommendations don't seem to take into account Woundidwife's state of mind.


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## TexasMom1216

Cynthia said:


> I was specifically responding to the comment that sharing a therapist for IC and marriage counseling is unethical.


I understand. I am the one who posed the question, because I wasn't sure. I've gotten varied answers, all of which honestly make sense to me. Thanks for responding.


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## Woundidwife

*Deidre* said:


> I think what may be happening is, your entire identity is wrapped up in your marriage, and that of what your husband thinks of you. Cheating is a devastating thing, and I think it is because the betrayed believe if only they were thinner, prettier, better in bed, more willing, or a whole host of other things, that the cheating wouldn't have happened. I know you probably know that's not true, but it is deep inside your mind.
> 
> Once you stop viewing yourself only through the lens of being ''his wife,'' and start creating a new identity, you'll be able to see this more objectively. That will take time, and you can't allow yourself to be influenced by him. Just keep staying strong, you're doing great. These emotions will come and go.


Wow. You are 100% right here.

Over the years, my identity morphed into being only 2 or 3 things. The original and most important was being his wife. Second, which quickly became the #1 thing was being a good mother to our children. The third piece of my identity is my job. I am proud of why I do and believe I am d*mn good at it…which is partly why I took on a leadership role. 

Last summer, when the second of our two grown children mostly flew the coop, I do believe I went into a minor depression there for a minute. My role as their mother was no longer really needed for much. I was at a loss. WH and I spent more time together and I thought everything was great—especially this summer when we didn’t host a single get-together and instead went on many mini-vacations and day trips (all of which I planned including a daredevil day-event that I REALLY would NEVER have wanted to do, but I knew HE WOULD LOVE and had ALWAYS WANTED TO DO. He f-ing let me do this trip with him literally DAYS AFTER HE DID THIS TO ME. I planned it, though I am not a thrill seeker. He left me suffer and get my heart all in a tizzy AFTER pulling this on me?!) and THE TRIPS WERE WONDERFUL. (Minus the risk-taking one, which I will never do again with or without him as I never wanted to do that activity in the first place!!!!). I felt very close to him and full of love. He now tells me that HE only felt the love (FROM me…but maybe FOR me also?…I didn’t ask about that) when we were actually on the trips and that his life was still unhappy when we were home. I THOUGHT I was a good wife. I THOUGHT we were happy together. 

Now, I realize that I don’t even know who I am without being Mrs. WW, or the mother of our two wonderful and surprisingly well adjusted children. Thank God for my job. I don’t know what I would do right now if I didn’t have some other kind of responsibility to keep my focus and distract me from my own torturous thoughts now and then.

I am still a mother, though my kids do not need me. I am still good at my job. I KNOW I was a good wife, but I don’t know what the h*ll I am now. Confused, I guess. 

How could I have been so wrong? How could I have thought things were better than ever while my WH was sinking into a self-sabotaging and marriage destroying depression?

ETA: Sorry I added that I did one of the trips against my will and knowing what a horrible person he had been to me and how willing I was to DO ANYTHING FOR HIM, he didn’t say a f-ing word and let me do the thing that I didn’t really want to do. For him. Like always—me doing things for him.


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## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> Wow. You are 100% right here.
> 
> Over the years, my identity morphed into being only 2 or 3 things. The original and most important was being his wife. Second, which quickly became the #1 thing was being a good mother to our children. The third piece of my identity is my job. I am proud of why I do and believe I am d*mn good at it…which is partly why I took on a leadership role.
> 
> Last summer, when the second our two grown children mostly flew the coop, I do believe I went into a minor depression there for a minute. My role as their mother was no longer really needed for much. I was at a loss. WH and I spent more time together and I thought everything was great—especially this summer when we didn’t host a single get-together and instead went on many mini-vacations and day trips(all of which I planned) and THEY WERE WONDERFUL. I felt very close to him and full of love. He now tells me that HE only felt the love (from me…but maybe FOR me also?…I didn’t ask about that) when we were actually on the trips and that his life was still unhappy when we were home. I THOUGHT I was a good wife. I THOUGHT we were happy together.
> 
> 
> Now, I realize that I don’t even know who I am without being Mrs. WW, or the mother of our two wonderful and surprisingly well adjusted children. Thank God for my job. I don’t know what I would do right now if I didn’t have some other kind of responsibility to keep my focus and distract me from my own torturous thoughts now and then.
> 
> I am still a mother, though my kids do not need me. I am still gold at my job. I KNOW I was a good wife, but I don’t know what the h*ll I am now. Confused, I guess.
> 
> How could I have been so wrong? How could I have thought things were better than ever while my WH was sinking into a self-sabotaging and marriage destroying depression?


Don't take on the responsibility for his choices, you didn't betray your marriage or him. This is easier said than done, I get that, but you're going to have to find yourself again. That's what helped me to shed that responsibility and become more confident in myself and move forward with life.


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## Openminded

He (presumably) chose not to share with you his feelings about any of that at the time. Instead he cheated. I can’t tell you how many cheater stories start that way. Do NOT take any of his so-called issues on yourself. It’s all on him.


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## TexasMom1216

Woundidwife said:


> How could I have thought things were better than ever while my WH was sinking into a self-sabotaging and marriage destroying depression?


She is still blaming herself for his cheating.


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## Woundidwife

Openminded said:


> He (presumably) chose not to share with you his feelings about any of that at the time. Instead he cheated. I can’t tell you how many cheater stories start that way. Do NOT take any of his so-called issues on yourself. It’s all on him.


What he did share was possibly a slight variation of the same old tune of complaints I had heard for 20 or more years, so no, I didn’t notice a difference. He didn’t make his feelings known and he sure as h*ll didn’t tell me he was depressed or planning to ruin our lives by f-ing a skank.

Sure as f**k wish I’d had a heads up on that shyte!


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## QuietRiot

TexasMom1216 said:


> She is still blaming herself for his cheating.


Every BS I know does at first, and sometimes forever. You heard the person earlier that said they had to accept their responsibility for their part in being cheated on. The cheater and many therapists are VERY good at supporting that narrative. (False narrative)


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## Woundidwife

TXTrini said:


> I don't know about that, but I'm always suspicious of people who are too cavalier with infidelity and their motives. Even so, he does make a good point in another post. You can't keep throwing infidelity in someone's face and have a marriage survive. The trouble is, his and Woundid's WS timeslines are completely inconsiderate of her needs. How does anyone expect her to forgive and forget? At this point, that would be rug sweeping, and probably hurt her more in the long run.
> 
> When a marriage implodes in such a hostile fashion, it's every man for himself. It's really hard to be impartial and unemotional to make good decisions when your partner stabbed you in the back. It completely destroys your image of them, your marriage, and your entire life. It makes you question your judgment and every single decision you make.
> 
> You wonder who it is occupying their body, because surely it couldn't be them, you try to fix things, get them to see reason like it's a passing disease. But no matter what you do, the facts remain unchanged that this person is not who you think they were. So unless, you get yourself together, and find a way to forgive them, and then see if you might like the new person who showed up, there's no way true reconciliation should ever be on the table this soon. You don't know what you're forgiving or who the real person you married is just yet.
> 
> I think WS can't understand this because they know exactly who their spouses are, and that they'd never do that. They know very well who and what they are, and how likely/unlikey they are to change into someone with acceptable moral values. Hence the panic and pressure for her to "be over this already" and work on their marriage. (Woundid's business trip story is evidence) If the shoe was on the other foot, how do you think he'd be reacting right now?


You forgot another thing infidelity destroys: the BS’s self esteem. I will have to pack tomorrow for this trip and I have no idea what to wear. It has begun to take me a VERY long time to get dressed every day, because I have to try on about 10 different things until I find one that hides what I want to hide and doesn’t make me look/feel unattractive. I actually have to get up earlier to allow enough time for this!!! 😡


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## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> You forgot another thing infidelity destroys: the BS’s self esteem. I will have to pack tomorrow for this trip and I have no idea what to wear. It has begun to take me a VERY long time to get dressed every day, because I have to try on about 10 different things until I find one that hides what I want to hide and doesn’t make me look/feel unattractive. I actually have to get up earlier to allow enough time for this!!! 😡


You will at some point need to address this, but you have enough to work on right now. Maybe you can go buy something nice for yourself, sexy underwear and a flattering outfit or three. Something to put a little pep in your step.


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## *Deidre*

I've noticed in marriages where there's infidelity, and in threads on here about it, there usually was a history of disrespect from the wayward spouse towards the betrayed spouse. But, many people don't divorce over chronic disrespect or emotional abuse, but this has your attention now. 

In a weird way, I sometimes think it takes traumatic events that shake us to the core, to get us to pay attention to all those red flags we pushed away in the past.

I hope you have a good trip.


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## snowbum

He only loved you on vacations? What a ****. This guy is not worth your time.


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## Woundidwife

So sleep last night didn’t really happen… Last night was bad because I got a nice case of laryngitis…This was about day 3, so the phlegm on my vocal cords started to break up as soon as I laid down. Coughing up stuff for a good hour or so before I could finally sleep. Then, of course, I wake up several times before my alarm. 

Terrible timing, because I have new duties starting at my job today, but maybe the stress/uncertainty of that is what woke me up this time. (Not that it prevented me from dwelling on worse things if it was.) Hard to tell. 

From what I have been reading, it is expected that my immune system would be pretty low right now in the physical, mental, and emotional states that I am in. (Or maybe I have HIV, but just don’t know it yet—3 month anniversary—from f-ing the skank—testing soon. Yay.) I started taking vitamin C and I read that the anger will actually help boost my immune system, so hopefully my health improves soon with my on again off again rage. 

Also, I am stress eating…I handed out candy for trick or treat last night and I probably ate more than I distributed. I finally had to tell my sibling (at the sibling’s house…no kids or close houses in the country where I live about 40 minutes from there) to prevent me from eating any more candy. I haven’t really gained any weight yet though, so if I can get a handle on this soon, maybe I can turn this sad ship around. I just can’t have any junk food around me. Period. I know that I need to form new and better habits. 

I am just sooo tired of feeling like shyte.


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## Woundidwife

So much for the rage. I was thinking about the events…. He wanted her. He actually asked/told this woman to follow him and then followed through on his plan. How could he do that to me?! 

Looks like today I will be blubbering instead. Good thing I have IC this evening, but I am going to ask for a referral. I need someone who is looking out for ME.


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## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> So much for the rage. I was thinking about the event ms…. He wanted her. He actually asked/told this woman to follow him and then followed through on his plan. How could he do that to me?!
> 
> Looks like today I will be blubbering instead. Good thing I have IC this evening, but I am going to ask for a referral. I need someone who is looking out for ME.


Blubbering is ok for self-care, but get ahold of that and don’t let it consume your day. 

For what it’s worth I think you’re handling this whole **** situation like a champ. Infidelity destroys lives, and grief is expected. There’s no right or wrong way to process it, you just have to be you and work through it.

So have a good cry at the loss of something you loved. Then dust yourself off and take the next step forward.

I hope the best for you WW.


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## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> So sleep last night didn’t really happen… Last night was bad because I got a nice case of laryngitis…This was about day 3, so the phlegm on my vocal cords started to break up as soon as I laid down. Coughing up stuff for a good hour or so before I could finally sleep. Then, of course, I wake up several times before my alarm.
> 
> Terrible timing, because I have new duties starting at my job today, but maybe the stress/uncertainty of that is what woke me up this time. (Not that it prevented me from dwelling on worse things if it was.) Hard to tell.
> 
> From what I have been reading, it is expected that my immune system would be pretty low right now in the physical, mental, and emotional states that I am in. (Or maybe I have HIV, but just don’t know it yet—3 month anniversary—from f-ing the skank—testing soon. Yay.) I started taking vitamin C and I read that the anger will actually help boost my immune system, so hopefully my health improves soon with my on again off again rage.
> 
> Also, I am stress eating…I handed out candy for trick or treat last night and I probably ate more than I distributed. I finally had to tell my sibling (at the sibling’s house…no kids or close houses in the country where I live about 40 minutes from there) to prevent me from eating any more candy. I haven’t really gained any weight yet though, so if I can get a handle on this soon, maybe I can turn this sad ship around. I just can’t have any junk food around me. Period. I know that I need to form new and better habits.
> 
> I am just sooo tired of feeling like shyte.


Time. Its gonna take a lot of time to right the ship of your life which your H torpedoed. Your first post was only a little over a month ago which is nothing. The trauma impact of all of this is still so fresh.

Feeding your feelings with junk food is understandable (I sure do get it 🙄) and its probably a phase that will pass.

You are also grieving the loss of your dream. Youve done everything "right", worked hard, sacrificed, tried to be a good and faithful Wife and Mom, thought you were a pair bonded team with your H, both working to the next phase of your marriage with great times ahead, i.e., travel, retirement, graduations, weddings, grandkids....and in your minds eye, youve seen it all turn to dust.

I took a little time this morning to read your thread from the beginning (Sept 18) and I am beginning to think that grief may be the greatest force in your life right now (anger is a phase of grief along with deep sorrow...ask me how I know). You are grieving the greatest loss that maybe youve ever known, the specialness, purity, intimacy and sense of belonging within your marriage. IF this rings true, grief must be processed. It must. You are allowed to grieve your loss and you should. You'll know when the grief subsides and can move on. Theres an old saying, *"You can't grab hold until you let go."* You dont want to let go of the old dream and desperately want it to still be reality and are angry about it (understandably and rightfully so).

I want to leave you with a couple of thoughts:

1. *If* this rings true (I may be all wet but I remember how this felt and I grieved for a long time), then its ok to grieve. Grief is a good thing. It helps to purge the soul of anything that would would remain and cause further rancor.

2. Here is a mantra that my therapist has repeated to me over the years, *"Feel your feelings but know that feelings arent fact."* In other words, in your anger and grief, you may feel despondent, as in, what good can come of my life and marriage now? Truth is, *great things can still be ahead for you.* After all of the trauma I have faced in my life, I am in a great place now, having rebuilt my life into something good and meaningful. I am at a point where I dont even remember my old dreams, only the new ones.

3. You are doing well. I know that coming from a bunch of strangers on the internet on the outside looking in through the words you share here, it may not feel that way, but you are. Taking the steps you have in inly 5.5 weeks is pretty amazing. You are also a good communicator of your thoughts and feelings which will stand you in good stead. Please keep sharing/venting here....we can take it.

Well, Im on my third cup o coffee and need to get on down the road.

As always, strength, healing and clarity to you ma'am. Have a good day.


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## Diana7

Woundidwife said:


> So much for the rage. I was thinking about the events…. He wanted her. He actually asked/told this woman to follow him and then followed through on his plan. How could he do that to me?!
> 
> Looks like today I will be blubbering instead. Good thing I have IC this evening, but I am going to ask for a referral. I need someone who is looking out for ME.


Good idea. I feel you are being pressured by him and the counsellor to reconcile. You must make your own decision and be given time and space to do it.


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## *Deidre*

Part of not sleeping well and feeling sick is coming from “withdrawals”, for lack of a better word. Being away from the dysfunction believe it or not, that you dealt with for so long, is stressful. You’re used to your day revolving around your husband, and now it doesn’t.


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## Openminded

No one realizes until they experience it what infidelity can do to you in every way. I didn’t have a clue. I’m usually someone who can deal with whatever life throws at me but I didn’t recognize the woman I became. That person was weak and uncertain and cried a lot and that’s definitely not me. I had to live with her for awhile though until the anger finally burned her away and the real me returned. So be kind to yourself and take care of the woman who’s shown up. She won’t be around forever. I told myself in the depths of the mess that I would recover and put it all behind me and be happy again. That was my goal and I got there (although not as quickly as I wanted). You’ll reach whatever your goal is too. In the meantime, deal with what you have to and let the rest slide for a minute.


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## Not

Woundidwife said:


> So much for the rage. I was thinking about the events…. He wanted her. He actually asked/told this woman to follow him and then followed through on his plan. How could he do that to me?!
> 
> Looks like today I will be blubbering instead. Good thing I have IC this evening, but I am going to ask for a referral. I need someone who is looking out for ME.


What he's done is dehumanizing, blubbering is a perfectly normal response to this horribly abnormal situation and so is replaying events in your mind. Allow yourself to do these things without feeling less than. 

It's all such a mind ****. He's literally two things in your mind, at the same time. He's this man you've been with forever, your mate and love of your life and yet at the same time he's this thing that's just so horrifically horrible, who's shown you that you mean nothing to him. We aren't built to cope with such absurdity, to be able to mentally reconcile two totally contradictory personalities within the same person, who we thought we knew better than anyone!

This separation is much needed, you need time and space just to sort out the twisted mess in your head and figure out who he actually is.


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## BigDaddyNY

Woundidwife said:


> So much for the rage. I was thinking about the events…. He wanted her. He actually asked/told this woman to follow him and then followed through on his plan. *How could he do that to me?!*
> 
> Looks like today I will be blubbering instead. Good thing I have IC this evening, but I am going to ask for a referral. I need someone who is looking out for ME.


Sadly, you were the farthest thing from his mind, that how. It is pure selfishness.


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## TXTrini

I wish I could tell you there's an easy fix for what you're feeling, but there isn't. It's pure hell, not of your making, but you have no choice but to keep going to get through to the other side. @DosEquis gave great advice, feel what you're feeling, but know that it's a temporary state, even if it feels like forever. Once you get to the root cause of why you're feeling each particular emotion, it becomes easier to recognize, separate and resolve. 

Part of the stress is the effort it takes to try to make sense of things. I don't have any advice for you on this if reconciliation is your goal. I only got peace when I decided, none of it mattered, actions trumped words and I decided to act.

I think getting a new IC whose sole interest is helping you is beneficial. Although, the upside to using the same therapist for MC and IC has its benefits, as that therapist gets the full picture. Again, it depends on how good the therapist is deciphering truth from fiction, waywards aren't exactly known for their honesty.

I hope you make it through the day, every day you survive is one step closer through your pain.


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## Affaircare

@Woundidwife ,

When I speak to people who are going through "dealing with infidelity" I give them some general "good advice" and I'm going to give that same advice to you:

1) RE: SLEEPING There are going to be nights you have trouble sleeping--this is normal. Either your mind won't shut off or it's disrupted or you have a bad dream. What I used to do myself is lay there for a bit and take some deep breaths to see if I could relax and go back to sleep. But if I didn't feel sleepy in a few minutes, then I'd sit up and think if there was anything I wanted to journal. I kept a journal (just a blank notebook) next to my bed, and usually I would journal how angry I was or just something on my mind that was like an intrusive thought. I found that journaling often "released" the thought or feeling and I'd be able to sleep.  But if I wasn't sleepy after that, I'd try reading a book--not necessarily a "self-help" book but something big and heavy and fictional like Tolkien. It would get my mind thinking of that world and kind of sleepy.  But if that didn't work, I'd just admit that I was up and actually get up. I'd do some chore that's quiet (so as not to disturb the whole house) like folding laundry or drying dishes. At least I was productive! 

2) RE: FOOD During this time, it is nearly impossible to eat well. First there's emotional eating, and second there's a lump in your throat from crying so you can't swallow anything! So what I recommend is to get a BUNCH of really good soups and maybe oatmeal. For breakfast, oatmeal just feels warm and comforting, and if you make it a little thinner, you can swallow it...so at least you're getting some nutrition. For lunch and dinner, soup can be VERY nutritious and again it feels warm and comforting...and you can swallow it and make it pretty easily. I don't know about you, but I didn't feel hungry...then I did...but I didn't want to cook for one...so I'd "grab something." This way, you just grab a soup, warm it up, and it's a little bit healthy for ya. In this way you'll conquer two things: a) you'll be taking a little better care of your body as it goes through this trauma, and b) you'll decrease your likelihood to binge eat or emotional eat. This is a good time to do the best you can to be deliberate about taking care of yourself, and one way to do that is something like oatmeal and soup that give you good fuel to carry on. 

3) RE: ANGER Boy, do I remember being in your shoes! I'm a very easy-going, peaceful person mainly because I was never modeled what "healthy anger" looked like. So when my H cheated on me, I was ANGRY and I didn't love it. It didn't feel like me, but like this witch of a person had taken over my body! LOL Anyway, here's just ONE thought I have to begin to address this feeling of anger: *ask yourself if your anger is a friend or an enemy?* Here's what I mean: in some cases, being angry is helpful, like if you are being abused or in an unhealthy situation. Friendly Anger (like that) is your way of telling yourself "This is WAAAAAAY NOT OKAY with me! I am far from being okay with this!!" If that's the case--if it's friendly anger--then that is your way of protecting yourself and it means you need to voice what you are not okay with...it might give you the courage to speak up, take a stand, or make a change. In other cases, being angry is not helpful and it is an enemy. Other signs of this type of anger--Enemy Anger--include feeling out of control and regretting your words or actions later. In these situations, it makes sense to work on tackling your emotions and calming yourself down.

My guess is that you honestly have some of both right now. Your Friendly Anger is saying that you are not okay with being so disrespected...so neglected..and so unimportant to your husband. It's also probably giving you the courage to take time apart, and change YOU. Your Enemy Anger is your emotions getting all whirled up and lashing out because you hurt so much. The people around you, who didn't do anything to do, don't deserve that emotional lashing out, so that part--the part that feels like a whirlwind building--might be a part to try to learn how you calm yourself. For example, maybe notice where you first feel that swelling feeling in your body: is it in your chest (like you're holding your breath)? Is it in your shoulders (like you're crunching so hard to "hold it in")? Is it in your stomach with a stomach ache or indigestion? Where to you feel it? Then, when you begin to notice that physical feeling...what works for you to help calm you down? I personally feel it in my chest because I "hold my breath" so I don't say what I'm feeling...and when I feel that heaviness in my chest, I know I need to BREATHE...and sometimes walk away for a little...and sometimes I have a cup of tea. For some reason, tea feels warm and too civilized to be angry! Isn't that silly? But it works for me! What works for you? A teddy bear? Meditation? Praying? What calms you?


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## DosEquis

*How could he do that to me?!*

As one BS said,* "The betrayal of infidelity is nothing more than selfishness and cruelty."*

I'd have to agree.


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## Woundidwife

Thank you all for your support and well wishes. I know I will survive this, I just wish there was a fast forward button!!!

Had IC session this evening and also just got off of a very civil 20ish minute phone call with WH. It was actually a very nice conversation. No screaming or even getting angry. No talk about infidelity at all. 

I am helping to create and tasked with enforcing the rules now, and he is willing to follow those rules. One call per week for a month and then marriage counseling session with individual ones in between. I feel less stressed about that already.

Still having anxiety about my work weekend, though. I had been looking forward to it and it was supposed to be fun (you know, the innocent kind that I prefer), but now it seems like the whole thing is kind of overshadowed by this negativity that shouldn’t even be associated with it. Even the things that I need to learn haven’t seemed important to me recently. I am glad I am in a slightly better place now, so that I can actually focus on learning these important things that I will be the only one trained to do!!! If this training had been a month or two ago, I would have canceled, because there is no way I would have been able to go nor would I have learned anything useful for my coworkers.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> I know I will survive this


Best news I’ve heard all day.
You sound better WW. Hang on to that as long as you can.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> I know I will survive this


Yes you will, and you will actually do much more than "survive", you'll thrive again. I base this assessment on what youve written to date.

Have a good, productive and dare I say, fun weekend.


----------



## Woundidwife

I mostly enjoyed my work weekend. I ate some decent—to even pretty good—food, learned some very useful work information, stayed in a kind of plush hotel, and got to spend time with my new friend from the summer work event. Although I WAS anxious, I wasn’t angry, and I didn’t cry much. What was very sad for me though, was realizing that this was the same friend whom I spent the evening with on THE ACTUAL DAY of the ONS, so just seeing her for the first time since D-day was kind of a trigger al by itself. I am 100% sure she (divorced) was tired of hearing me talk about my 27th anniversary that was coming up at the end of the week—just days away. I also know exactly what I was doing when the deed happened….We had gone to 7/11 earlier in the evening to get lottery tickets for our state (WH’s request because he already told me earlier in the evening that he wasn’t dressed for going out). I was already in my bed (in a shared room with this same friend), when he woke me with a good night text around 10:30—right before he left our house and changed my life forever. I ALMOST called him that night, but thought he was going to bed, too—as he SHOULD have done.

All very sad and nerve-racking this weekend was for me, but WH took care of our dog and cleaned the floors for me, which I do really appreciate. I can see him making some improvements. He plans to attend church when his work schedule is flexible, so I think that is definitely a good thing for him. I also hope he is getting somewhere with his IC. He does have the potential to grow from this as a person and that is a very good thing.

Going to bed now, as I still didn’t sleep very well last night. I am beginning to wonder if the sleep meds. are losing their effect for me. May just try a Benadryl tonight and change it up a little.


----------



## DosEquis

Hey WW. Sorry for all of the triggers. On the whole though, sounds like the weekend was in the positive column.

Hope you sleep well.


----------



## DosEquis

Just read a great quote from @ShatteredKat on another Betrayeds thread who has seperated and was trying to decide whether to R or D:

*"You have to answer to yourself. Can you live with what you now have? Do you think in time you will mellow and accept that your spouse was not the person you thought?

Forgiving does not mean forgetting - it means putting your hurt and hate aside and making the decision you will not dwell on that which you cannot change. But you will never again have the blind trust you had before."*

Just thought Id pass along.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Just read a great quote from @ShatteredKat on another Betrayeds thread who has seperated and was trying to decide whether to R or D:
> 
> *"You have to answer to yourself. Can you live with what you now have? Do you think in time you will mellow and accept that your spouse was not the person you thought?
> 
> Forgiving does not mean forgetting - it means putting your hurt and hate aside and making the decision you will not dwell on that which you cannot change. But you will never again have the blind trust you had before."*
> 
> Just thought Id pass along.


Good points. Much appreciated. 

Today was another tough one. Does does any of this ever get less painful to deal with?


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> Good points. Much appreciated.
> 
> Today was another tough one. Does does any of this ever get less painful to deal with?


Well you made it through and are still standing, that's something.

Hard to say, it depends on what you choose to do or not do.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Good points. Much appreciated.
> 
> Today was another tough one. Does does any of this ever get less painful to deal with?


So sorry. Just a reminder that your first post was Sept. 18. In infidelity recovery time, its about a minute. Its all still very recent. 

In direct answer to your question, yes, it does get less painful but like any major injury, it takes time and a lot of effort. You are doing well all things considered.

If you are (continuing) in therapy, it will help assuage the emotional upheaval by giving you tools to be able to "deal and heal". Like a major earthquake, you are experiencing aftershocks and will for a while, but they too will lessen.

On another note, are you reading any books that are helping? Taken up any hobbies/sports that youve let go of in the past? Try and practice the principle of "displacement" whenever possible so that when you are assailed by the tormenting thoughts and resulting emotional upset, you immediately interrupt with an activity (if you're able to at the time), to displace that incident and stop the endless rumination.

Hang in there.


----------



## TXTrini

I found keeping busy and occupying my mind until I slept the best way to stay sane. It sounds like you're already doing that with work and your reading. 

So, keep on keeping on, there are no shortcuts, but it's certainly faster than burying your head in the sand and waiting for things to change. You're strong enough to outlast this, Woundid.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> So sorry. Just a reminder that your first post was Sept. 18. In infidelity recovery time, its about a minute. Its all still very recent.
> 
> In direct answer to your question, yes, it does get less painful but like any major injury, it takes time and a lot of effort. You are doing well all things considered.
> 
> If you are (continuing) in therapy, it will help assuage the emotional upheaval by giving you tools to be able to "deal and heal". Like a major earthquake, you are experiencing aftershocks and will for a while, but they too will lessen.
> 
> On another note, are you reading any books that are helping? Taken up any hobbies/sports that youve let go of in the past? Try and practice the principle of "displacement" whenever possible so that when you are assailed by the tormenting thoughts and resulting emotional upset, you immediately interrupt with an activity (if you're able to at the time), to displace that incident and stop the endless rumination.
> 
> Hang in there.


Thanks for the support. I am reading feverishly (all self help books except for one) and yes, trying to get back to some of my old hobbies. Baking is one that I have loved since childhood, and possibly painting—which I found a passion for in college. 

I am working on me. 

Sleep deprivation has been awful lately, though. It is like my sleep patterns have now become this horrible nightmare of a sleep schedule. I have a long drive to work and nearly fell asleep on the way to and from work today. Drifting off now. Gonna take a Benadryl.


----------



## Woundidwife

TXTrini said:


> I found keeping busy and occupying my mind until I slept the best way to stay sane. It sounds like you're already doing that with work and your reading.
> 
> So, keep on keeping on, there are no shortcuts, but it's certainly faster than burying your head in the sand and waiting for things to change. You're strong enough to outlast this, Woundid.


Thank you. I am sure trying!


----------



## TXTrini

Good night! I hope you sleep better tonight. Sleep is healing.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> possibly painting—which I found a passion for in college


Yay! Another artist on TAM, I hope you share with us!


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Thanks for the support. I am reading feverishly (all self help books except for one) and yes, trying to get back to some of my old hobbies. Baking is one that I have loved since childhood, and possibly painting—which I found a passion for in college.
> 
> I am working on me.
> 
> Sleep deprivation has been awful lately, though. It is like my sleep patterns have now become this horrible nightmare of a sleep schedule. I have a long drive to work and nearly fell asleep on the way to and from work today. Drifting off now. Gonna take a Benadryl.


Well, reading, baking and painting.....great start imo. Any books stand out to you (always looking for a good book reco)?

Cooking has always been relaxing to me. People look at me and would never guess (big guy, broad shoulders, played football), but I enjoy cooking (which my wife loves btw), It relaxes me. Not much of a baker though. The one exception is a killer peasant bread recipe that makes my mouth water even thinking of it. I only make it occasionally as it is tough on the wasteline....gotta walk an extra couple of miles to burn THOSE carbs.

Staying constructively occupied is therapy in and of itself. Keep it up.

I have had bouts of severe sleeplessness. Benadryl helps me sometimes but with some people, it acts just the opposite....like a stimulant. This is a *big* challenge, I know, as you actually probably need *more* sleep than usual due to the heightened stress levels. Have you tried any of the directed meditation apps?

Stay with it WW. I really liked TXTrini's encouraging words here:


TXTrini said:


> You're strong enough to outlast this, Woundid.


The truth and realness of this resonated with me. No grandiose "you shall overcome", just, you have the stuff to "outlast" this trial. There are times in our lives where "outlasting" is all we can muster, and it is enough.

Have a good day WW.


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> Good points. Much appreciated.
> 
> Today was another tough one. Does does any of this ever get less painful to deal with?


I do not have any pain. I am decades out from the first cheating wife, 17 years post the second.
What I do struggle with is resentment about the injustice. 
Getting out and away helped.
One therapist I corresponded with on a site told me that, invariably, those for whom this is a dealbreaker, who divorce recover quicker. She said folks with firm boundaries, for whatever reason, just make faster recoveries.


----------



## re16

What you are going through is tough... but you have to start deciding to focus on the positive, deciding to be happy, deciding what you will allow to occupy your thoughts and time.

Whether you know it or not, you are forming mental habits, and those become harder to break over time... so you need to work on healthy mental habits...


----------



## TXTrini

Megaforce said:


> I do not have any pain. I am decades out from the first cheating wife, 17 years post the second.
> What I do struggle with is resentment about the injustice.
> Getting out and away helped.
> One therapist I corresponded with on a site told me that, invariably, those for whom this is a dealbreaker, who divorce recover quicker. She said folks with firm boundaries, for whatever reason, just make faster recoveries.


My pain of betrayal stopped when I accepted the reality of my situation. But, I filed within a few weeks of getting over my shock and was divorced within 6 months of DD. I moved well before that to a different town and went on with my life, no contact with him or anyone connected to him. 

Of course, that's not the only pain you have to deal with in these situations, you spend a lot of time going over what you thought you know, everything you can remember that may have mattered until you realize there's nothing for it, but to move forward. 

I can't speak for those who reconciled, but I imagine their pain is worse, which is inevitable when you have to rationalize dual opposing kinds of feelings at the same time for the same person. I did have a taste, when I forgave my exH for an EA and boy was that HARD. I think I was triggered every time I felt something was "off", couldn't relax, and looking back, I just never trusted him again. 

I did go for therapy, focused on rebuilding my life instead of wallowing for long stretches at a time, and made myself watch TV shows about infidelity as an immersion therapy of sorts, to just get it over with. I've spent a lot of time here, I cry with every BS all over again when I offer support, and I can't do it too much, or it's a real drain. However, I can honestly say, I'm at peace about it, even though it still irks me that 20 years of my life were wasted. 

Regardless of what you choose, time and how you deal with things are what will influence how long/sharp the pain remains. I get that shock keeps you stalled in place, but limbo makes things infinitely worse in the long run.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Well, reading, baking and painting.....great start imo. Any books stand out to you (always looking for a good book reco)?
> 
> Cooking has always been relaxing to me. People look at me and would never guess (big guy, broad shoulders, played football), but I enjoy cooking (which my wife loves btw), It relaxes me. Not much of a baker though. The one exception is a killer peasant bread recipe that makes my mouth water even thinking of it. I only make it occasionally as it is tough on the wasteline....gotta walk an extra couple of miles to burn THOSE carbs.
> 
> Staying constructively occupied is therapy in and of itself. Keep it up.
> 
> I have had bouts of severe sleeplessness. Benadryl helps me sometimes but with some people, it acts just the opposite....like a stimulant. This is a *big* challenge, I know, as you actually probably need *more* sleep than usual due to the heightened stress levels. Have you tried any of the directed meditation apps?
> 
> Stay with it WW. I really liked TXTrini's encouraging words here:
> 
> The truth and realness of this resonated with me. No grandiose "you shall overcome", just, you have the stuff to "outlast" this trial. There are times in our lives where "outlasting" is all we can muster, and it is enough.
> 
> Have a good day WW.


I am working on my resilience for the “outlasting” for sure—unfortunately nothing is happening at the speed which would be more comfortable for me. 

I read a little but of everything, so tell me a genre and I can recommend something for sure. I often read and review books before they are printed, so the ones I have read recently would not be out for the general public yet—but I have read (cheated and listened to a robotics phone voice “read”) several hundred books in the last 5 years or so on my long work commute. 

Also, you should share that peasant bread recipe. Sounds like something my family would LOVE!


----------



## Woundidwife

TXTrini said:


> My pain of betrayal stopped when I accepted the reality of my situation. But, I filed within a few weeks of getting over my shock and was divorced within 6 months of DD. I moved well before that to a different town and went on with my life, no contact with him or anyone connected to him.
> 
> Of course, that's not the only pain you have to deal with in these situations, you spend a lot of time going over what you thought you know, everything you can remember that may have mattered until you realize there's nothing for it, but to move forward.
> 
> I can't speak for those who reconciled, but I imagine their pain is worse, which is inevitable when you have to rationalize dual opposing kinds of feelings at the same time for the same person. I did have a taste, when I forgave my exH for an EA and boy was that HARD. I think I was triggered every time I felt something was "off", couldn't relax, and looking back, I just never trusted him again.
> 
> I did go for therapy, focused on rebuilding my life instead of wallowing for long stretches at a time, and made myself watch TV shows about infidelity as an immersion therapy of sorts, to just get it over with. I've spent a lot of time here, I cry with every BS all over again when I offer support, and I can't do it too much, or it's a real drain. However, I can honestly say, I'm at peace about it, even though it still irks me that 20 years of my life were wasted.
> 
> Regardless of what you choose, time and how you deal with things are what will influence how long/sharp the pain remains. I get that shock keeps you stalled in place, but limbo makes things infinitely worse in the long run.


Thank you for sharing your experiences with me. I know it took time to write that and that you do still feel the pain. I am sorry for that (and not looking forward to it for myself either!). You make a lot of sense…trying to actively remove some triggers. I’m not sure when I will be ready for that. I am feeling a little bit lighter most days, but I am also working on me and trying not to dwell on all of the things that do trigger me…so I worry if I’m compartmentalizing and/or whether I am healing in a way that will actually work and not come back to bite me in the azz years down the road.


----------



## Woundidwife

re16 said:


> What you are going through is tough... but you have to start deciding to focus on the positive, deciding to be happy, deciding what you will allow to occupy your thoughts and time.
> 
> Whether you know it or not, you are forming mental habits, and those become harder to break over time... so you need to work on healthy mental habits...


Spot on about the mental habits. Gotta work on those, too!


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you for sharing your experiences with me. I know it took time to write that and that you do still feel the pain. I am sorry for that (and not looking forward to it for myself either!). You make a lot of sense…trying to actively remove some triggers. I’m not sure when I will be ready for that. I am feeling a little bit lighter most days, but I am also working on me and trying not to dwell on all of the things that do trigger me…so I worry if I’m compartmentalizing and/or whether I am healing in a way that will actually work and not come back to bite me in the azz years down the road.


I just wanted you to see you're not lacking in any way, so you can stop being so hard on yourself. I'm ok, I don't feel broken up about it anymore and haven't for some time, but reading other BS's stories brings back the memory. It's like how everyone who was old enough on 9/11 remembers every detail about where they were and what they were doing then, when the world changed. 

I did the "immersion therapy" maybe a year or so after DD, because I was just tired of being held back. Keep in mind, I was also in a relationship, and I thought I should sort myself out to be fair to my bf.

There's no road map to healing, everyone struggles, but the only time it's difficult is if you try to suppress it, then it sort of boomerangs back to you at the worst possible times. I had a really hard time identifying what I was feeling and separating it from how I thought of myself for the longest time. I came across this docuseries on HBO Max, which was very helpful, if that's something you struggle with too (Atlas of the Heart with Brene Brown)


----------



## DosEquis

@TXTrini is certainly sharing some hard fought for gold nuggets. So wish I had wisdom like this back in the day.....

As to the *easy *peasant bread recipe, you can find it here. Beware, you will want more.....think Ill make some today. Warm home made bread on a cool Fall day....mmmmm.

Thanks for the book insight. I was specifically wondering about anything youve read that has helped your healing curve in recent days.

Have a good day.


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## Woundidwife

Thank you for the recipe!

Mostly books that have already been mentioned on here. Everyone has been so helpful!


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## Woundidwife

His birthday was this week. I tried to buy him a card, but I couldn't even bring myself to pick up one that said "husband" on it. I knew what sweet words would be inside 
--made me cry, so I didn't buy one at all.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Woundidwife said:


> His birthday was this week. I tried to buy him a card, but I couldn't even bring myself to pick up one that said "husband" on it. I knew what sweet words would be inside
> --made me want to cry, so I didn't buy one at all.


He threw his husband title in the trash when he screwed the OW.


----------



## snowbum

BigDaddyNY said:


> He threw his husband title in the trash when he screwed the OW.


Amen. He doesn’t deserve it


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> His birthday was this week. I tried to buy him a card, but I couldn't even bring myself to pick up one that said "husband" on it. I knew what sweet words would be inside
> --made me want to cry, so I didn't buy one at all.


All the firsts are triggers. Brace yourself for the holidays, unfortunately it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

How was your day?


----------



## snowbum

Woundidwife said:


> His birthday was this week. I tried to buy him a card, but I couldn't even bring myself to pick up one that said "husband" on it. I knew what sweet words would be inside
> --made me want to cry, so I didn't buy one at all.


Did you celebrate the day with him?


----------



## Woundidwife

No, but had the once a week phone call that day. It was a good and civil conversation, but I had to get drunk and cry myself sleep afterwards. Also gotta make my 3 month STI test appointment. Hit the big 3 month mark of the event soon.


----------



## Woundidwife

TXTrini said:


> All the firsts are triggers. Brace yourself for the holidays, unfortunately it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
> 
> How was your day?


Today was mostly okay. I am already dreading the holidays. Our grown children will be home with limited time, and I am already uncomfortable just thinking about how that will go. 

I didn’t ask for any of this!!!! 😭


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> Today was mostly okay. I am already dreading the holidays. Our grown children will be home with limited time, and I am already uncomfortable just thinking about how that will go.
> 
> I didn’t ask for any of this!!!! 😭


So it was a pretty decent day, all in all. That's good. I didn't mean to plant fears in your mind, but it's not cool going into that unprepared.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> I didn’t ask for any of this!!!! 😭


No. No you did not.

This is the forced/false "choice" not of your making that I posted about pages back. It goes against every fiber of your being as to self determination, let alone the aspect of betrayal at its worse.

That brings us to acceptance. Some people can give up the internal struggle and finally accept the new reality that they will now have to live with/in if they choose to stay. Many cannot. This was a big part of my problem. I stayed, but had one foot in and one out and the internal struggle continued. I could never really reach acceptance and it caused tremendous internal conflict in me for a decade. I shiver right now thinking of those days.

What I type now is what I believe is the heart of the heart, the epicenter of the issue of infidelity that causes *such agony* in the Betrayed and that is *the severing of the pair bond by the cheating partner.*

The pair bond goes beyond marriage. In fact, the pair bonding process starts well before the vows and rings and is supposed to be "sealed" in marriage.

When a cheating spouse severs that bond through infidelity, the pain of that severing is deadened for them by the thrill/limerance of the adultery and the ego "kibbles" that comes with it many times. Mix in alcohol and they feel little pain at all....but the following infidelity hangover is brutal if they yet care for their betrayed partner.

When the *Betrayed Spouse* learns of the affair, they experience the severing of that bond sans anesthsea, kind of like surgery with no sedation, and the pain is indescribable (I can attest). Many times the BS desperately looks for anything to deaden the pain, i.e. alcohol, drugs, venting, revenge affairs, anything to make it stop it or at least take the edge off. Many, like myself, felt physical pain along with the emotional angst.

In the middle of the agony of this severing, they are then faced with a choice (if dealing with a remorseful CS).....since the pair bond is severed, do I stay and try to re-bond with this person through exhausting years of righting the ship of my life, rebuilding trust and rapport with my own personal marital traitor, or do I have a funeral for the dead marriage and bury the remains through divorce?

The pain of the severed pair bond is a very real thing. I never looked at my marriage the same again. I used to stare at my ring in the morning and it took everything I had to keep it on. I felt like a fraud even wearing it. The reason was that I felt I no longer had a "life partner". Though I stayed, that initial precious (to me) pair bond had been severed and I felt nothing could take its place (a self fulfilling prophecy in my case) that would never be its equal, let alone surpass that original bond.

Can a new bond be forged? I must believe so due to the story of others who've testified to that in their reconciled marriages. I take it by faith that it is possible though I never truly experienced it.

Though others are doubtful (and this shyte has taught us to be so), per your descriptions, it sounds like your ch wants to R and may be showing signs of remorse, which is a good thing, in and of itself. Can he go the distance as an ever-remorseful, truly reconciling new(ish) life partner? Only time will tell, but one things for sure, *a brand new bond will have to be forged.* One Betrayed Spouse described it as courting again, but with a whole lot of baggage.

I share this with you for a number of reasons. Firstly to empathize both with the pain and the choice before you. Secondly to help you find a starting point. How do you even know when acceptance is possible? For me, it would have been when I gave up the internal fight and stopped railing against my new reality. When that subsides, when you finally reach acceptance, you will be able to obtain a place of greater clarity as to what you want to do with *your* life moving forward and this is what I hope for you and all Betrayeds.

I hope my rambling has made some sense to you.

In the meantime Ma'am....Excelsior, Excelsior.

ETA: I will also say that some have described reaching a place of indifference or the "zen of meh" before reaching clarity as to what direction to take in their infidelity recovery. I never reached that point, staying in a state of anger & sorrow (no way to live btw) but, again, have to take their word on this that it is possible.


----------



## Affaircare

@Woundidwife,

I have a link for you that you may find helpful: How Did You Deal with the Anger of Being Chumped? - ChumpLady.com


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> No. No you did not.
> 
> This is the forced/false "choice" not of your making that I posted about pages back. It goes against every fiber of your being as to self determination, let alone the aspect of betrayal at its worse.
> 
> That brings us to acceptance. Some people can give up the internal struggle and finally accept the new reality that they will now have to live with/in if they choose to stay. Many cannot. This was a big part of my problem. I stayed, but had one foot in and one out and the internal struggle continued. I could never really reach acceptance and it caused tremendous internal conflict in me for a decade. I shiver right now thinking of those days.
> 
> What I type now is what I believe is the heart of the heart, the epicenter of the issue of infidelity that causes *such agony* in the Betrayed and that is *the severing of the pair bond by the cheating partner.*
> 
> The pair bond goes beyond marriage. In fact, the pair bonding process starts well before the vows and rings and is supposed to be "sealed" in marriage.
> 
> When a cheating spouse severs that bond through infidelity, the pain of that severing is deadened for them by the thrill/limerance of the adultery and the ego "kibbles" that comes with it many times. Mix in alcohol and they feel little pain at all....but the following infidelity hangover is brutal if they yet care for their betrayed partner.
> 
> When the *Betrayed Spouse* learns of the affair, they experience the severing of that bond sans anesthsea, kind of like surgery with no sedation, and the pain is indescribable (I can attest). Many times the BS desperately looks for anything to deaden the pain, i.e. alcohol, drugs, venting, revenge affairs, anything to make it stop it or at least take the edge off. Many, like myself, felt physical pain along with the emotional angst.
> 
> In the middle of the agony of this severing, they are then faced with a choice (if dealing with a remorseful CS).....since the pair bond is severed, do I stay and try to re-bond with this person through exhausting years of righting the ship of my life, rebuilding trust and rapport with my own personal marital traitor, or do I have a funeral for the dead marriage and bury the remains through divorce?
> 
> The pain of the severed pair bond is a very real thing. I never looked at my marriage the same again. I used to stare at my ring in the morning and it took everything I had to keep it on. I felt like a fraud even wearing it. The reason was that I felt I no longer had a "life partner". Though I stayed, that initial precious (to me) pair bond had been severed and I felt nothing could take its place (a self fulfilling prophecy in my case) that would never be its equal, let alone surpass that original bond.
> 
> Can a new bond be forged? I must believe so due to the story of others who've testified to that in their reconciled marriages. I take it by faith that it is possible though I never truly experienced it.
> 
> Though others are doubtful (and this shyte has taught us to be so), per your descriptions, it sounds like your ch wants to R and may be showing signs of remorse, which is a good thing, in and of itself. Can he go the distance as an ever-remorseful, truly reconciling new(ish) life partner? Only time will tell, but one things for sure, *a brand new bond will have to be forged.* One Betrayed Spouse described it as courting again, but with a whole lot of baggage.
> 
> I share this with you for a number of reasons. Firstly to empathize both with the pain and the choice before you. Secondly to help you find a starting point. How do you even know when acceptance is possible? For me, it would have been when I gave up the internal fight and stopped railing against my new reality. When that subsides, when you finally reach acceptance, you will be able to obtain a place of greater clarity as to what you want to do with *your* life moving forward and this is what I hope for you and all Betrayeds.
> 
> I hope my rambling has made some sense to you.
> 
> In the meantime Ma'am....Excelsior, Excelsior.
> 
> ETA: I will also say that some have described reaching a place of indifference or the "zen of meh" before reaching clarity as to what direction to take in their infidelity recovery. I never reached that point, staying in a state of anger & sorrow (no way to live btw) but, again, have to take their word on this that it is possible.


I agree with what you have said here. I have said the same thing. We would need to start completely over from BELOW ZERO.


----------



## Woundidwife

Affaircare said:


> @Woundidwife,
> 
> I have a link for you that you may find helpful: How Did You Deal with the Anger of Being Chumped? - ChumpLady.com


Thank you. I will read that.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> I agree with what you have said here. I have said the same thing. We would need to start completely over from BELOW ZERO.


I will also add that I did not have the years of marital history behind me that you do now which is good and bad. To burn down 27 years leaves a lot of ash, but even ash is good for some things, i.e. mixing into cement to pour a new foundation.

Youve shared a lot about your sadness and anger which I relate to very well. Any other thoughts/feelings you care to share? Any more "blockers" to progress that you've identified that we may be able to help you through/around?

Have a good day WW.


----------



## Diana7

DosEquis said:


> I will also add that I did not have the years of marital history behind me that you do now which is good and bad. To burn down 27 years leaves a lot of ash, but even ash is good for some things, i.e. mixing into cement to pour a new foundation.
> 
> Youve shared a lot about you sadness and anger which I relate to very well. Any other thoughts/feelings you care to share? Any more "blockers" to progress that you've identified that we may be able to help you through/around?
> 
> Have a good day WW.


We both had long first marriages that ended badly and painfully, his 23 years and mine 25. Even after all that time though there is life after divorce. It takes a long time, at least it did for me, but we have been happily married for 17 years now.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> I agree with what you have said here. I have said the same thing. We would need to start completely over from BELOW ZERO.


A suggestion for how “below zero” could look.

Really, the WS should be moving heaven and earth to do what is required to keep you. Including letting you go for a bit.

I have read stories (so not my personal experience) where the BS moved forward with a divorce because the pain of the current marriage was too high. An amicable divorce, and the WS gave control of nearly everything to the BS. Once complete, you start over with a dating relationship. And then you’re in the drivers seat about how that relationship goes. If you get any red flags or his remorse if fleeting, then you can move on. If you don't, perhaps you can marry again.

And it would be a brand new marriage, which is what you need.

The downside is the cost of filing and mediation, which isn't too bad if everything is amicable (depending on your state). And depending on how your finances are set up, splitting them might be a pain in the butt. But maybe it's worth it?

The thing I like most about this is that it sends a clear message. “Cheating on me comes with consequences”.


----------



## Woundidwife

BeyondRepair007 said:


> A suggestion for how “below zero” could look.
> 
> Really, the WS should be moving heaven and earth to do what is required to keep you. Including letting you go for a bit.
> 
> I have read stories (so not my personal experience) where the BS moved forward with a divorce because the pain of the current marriage was too high. An amicable divorce, and the WS gave control of nearly everything to the BS. Once complete, you start over with a dating relationship. And then you’re in the drivers seat about how that relationship goes. If you get any red flags or his remorse if fleeting, then you can move on. If you don't, perhaps you can marry again.
> 
> And it would be a brand new marriage, which is what you need.
> 
> The downside is the cost of filing and mediation, which isn't too bad if everything is amicable (depending on your state). And depending on how your finances are set up, splitting them might be a pain in the butt. But maybe it's worth it?
> 
> The thing I like most about this is that it sends a clear message. “Cheating on me comes with consequences”.


I have said as much to him. That our marriage is over, that divorce would be inevitable, that I would want to start over with SOMEONE, and that it might not necessarily be him. Although he was at one time, he is no longer my “plan A” and not even necessarily “plan B”. I would want to at least give myself a chance to be happy with someone who has never betrayed me. If that fails, MAYBE I would eventually come back to him. His stance on that was this: “If you do that, you are looking for love, and I have love for you right here, so we would be done”. So be it. Yes, I WOULD be looking for love, and I have already seen what his love looks like. 27 years of controlling behavior, with a sprinkle of infidelity, and a handful of pretty promises for a wonderful future. Tempting? Not so much.


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> I have said as much to him. That our marriage is over, that divorce would be inevitable, that I would want to start over with SOMEONE, and that it might not necessarily be him. Although he was at one time, he is no longer my “plan A” and not even necessarily “plan B”. I would want to at least give myself a chance to be happy with someone who has never betrayed me. If that fails, MAYBE I would eventually come back to him. His stance on that was this: “If you do that, you are looking for love, and I have love for you right here, so we would be done”. So be it. Yes, I WOULD be looking for love, and I have already seen what his love looks like. 27 years of controlling me, with a sprinkle of infidelity, and a handful of pretty promises for a wonderful future. Tempting? Not so much.


I think you would be wise to jettison him permanently. 

Not to beat a dead horse but as I and some others have pointed out, it seems very, very unlikely that his story is true.

Have you made any inquiries about the fairly obvious holes in this story? Among other things, the allegation that he would go this far as the result of a belief you had been drinking? That seems patently absurd.
Or, that a man in his 40s could possibly be unaware that buying drinks for a woman co UK ld be interpreted as an overture? Could he possibly be so naive?
Or that this was a random stranger and he has absolutely no personal information about her that could identify her? They spoke at length at the bar and he foes not know her name, her occupation, where she hails from? Were they just big sports fans and talked about the World Series? Or politics? Puhleeeeze.
What ssf does your husband say about these, and his just happening to know a secluded spot on a moment's notice. 
Can you observe his demeanor and body language etc?
My point is that reconciling would UK ld be tough enough with a truthful cheater ( is that an oxymoron?).
You have one that seems to have no compunction about lying. He must view you as very gullible and that is insulting.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> I have said as much to him. That our marriage is over, that divorce would be inevitable, that I would want to start over with SOMEONE, and that it might not necessarily be him. Although he was at one time, he is no longer my “plan A” and not even necessarily “plan B”. I would want to at least give myself a chance to be happy with someone who has never betrayed me. If that fails, MAYBE I would eventually come back to him. His stance on that was this: “If you do that, you are looking for love, and I have love for you right here, so we would be done”. So be it. Yes, I WOULD be looking for love, and I have already seen what his love looks like. 27 years of controlling me, with a sprinkle of infidelity, and a handful of pretty promises for a wonderful future. Tempting? Not so much.


Good for you. Understand what you need and settle for nothing less.
Your self-esteem will thank you later.

I think you've got the right plan in mind here. It becomes his job to prove his worth, if he even can. You deserve a new relationship with someone that treats you right from the get go. And now you better recognize the red flags in a relationship and your own personality (letting someone treat you poorly and not seeing it)

Well done. Take charge of your life.


----------



## DosEquis

Diana7 said:


> We both had long first marriages that ended badly and painfully, his 23 years and mine 25. Even after all that time though there is life after divorce. It takes a long time, at least it did for me, but we have been happily married for 17 years now.


That is wonderful. I too remarried an incredible woman, also a survivor of a brutal betrayal. Girl is the apple of my eye.

Cheers to you and Mr. D7🥂


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## Diana7

Woundidwife said:


> I have said as much to him. That our marriage is over, that divorce would be inevitable, that I would want to start over with SOMEONE, and that it might not necessarily be him. Although he was at one time, he is no longer my “plan A” and not even necessarily “plan B”. I would want to at least give myself a chance to be happy with someone who has never betrayed me. If that fails, MAYBE I would eventually come back to him. His stance on that was this: “If you do that, you are looking for love, and I have love for you right here, so we would be done”. So be it. Yes, I WOULD be looking for love, and I have already seen what his love looks like. 27 years of controlling behavior, with a sprinkle of infidelity, and a handful of pretty promises for a wonderful future. Tempting? Not so much.


That comment alone he made shows his total lack of understanding of the devastating effect his cheating has had on you.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> I have said as much to him. That our marriage is over, that divorce would be inevitable, that I would want to start over with SOMEONE, and that it might not necessarily be him. Although he was at one time, he is no longer my “plan A” and not even necessarily “plan B”. I would want to at least give myself a chance to be happy with someone who has never betrayed me. If that fails, MAYBE I would eventually come back to him. His stance on that was this: “If you do that, you are looking for love, and I have love for you right here, so we would be done”. So be it. Yes, I WOULD be looking for love, and I have already seen what his love looks like. 27 years of controlling behavior, with a sprinkle of infidelity, and a handful of pretty promises for a wonderful future. Tempting? Not so much.


It sounds like you are now processing more fully which is good and R is looking less and less appealing as to healing your broken heart moving forward and that D is seeming more appropriate for you now. I 100% support your determination to do so should you follow through. Its about *you* and *your* healing now. Full stop.



Woundidwife said:


> 27 years of controlling behavior, with a sprinkle of infidelity, and a handful of pretty promises for a wonderful future. Tempting? Not so much.


OK, now we are getting somewhere. Thanks for this glimpse into your past reality. Sounds like this has all happened with a pretty toxic 27 year experiential backdrop. Yeh, with history like that, why would you be incentivized to even consider R? I mean seriously?

I think this separation is doing you a lot of good and that clarity is starting to come to fruition.

Stay the course WW. You are doing very well this early in the process. You may not feel that way but you are.


----------



## Openminded

TAM wasn’t around when I reconciled many years ago. I would have done things much differently if it had been. I didn’t know the crucial part about the old marriage being gone and starting over with a new marriage. He continued as he always had — all those wonderful promises were forgotten as soon as he realized I wasn’t going to divorce him — and life went on. The next time I had to make a similar decision, I thought about it for awhile and told him I was done. No more chances. At that point all the wonderful promises returned — blah, blah, blah. But nope. In far too many ways he was still that 18 year old boy I met decades before. I just was no longer that 18 year old girl he met. I realized I had compromised too much in those decades and I wanted out no matter the cost. And I paid a high one in every way but I didn’t (and still don’t) care. I was free and that’s what was best for me. You’ll have to decide what’s best for you.


----------



## snowbum

Woundidwife said:


> I have said as much to him. That our marriage is over, that divorce would be inevitable, that I would want to start over with SOMEONE, and that it might not necessarily be him. Although he was at one time, he is no longer my “plan A” and not even necessarily “plan B”. I would want to at least give myself a chance to be happy with someone who has never betrayed me. If that fails, MAYBE I would eventually come back to him. His stance on that was this: “If you do that, you are looking for love, and I have love for you right here, so we would be done”. So be it. Yes, I WOULD be looking for love, and I have already seen what his love looks like. 27 years of controlling behavior, with a sprinkle of infidelity, and a handful of pretty promises for a wonderful future. Tempting? Not so much.


If he cannot accept that he has to start from square one he’s not remorseful. He truly thinks that him cheating is not that bad. He has love for you while screwing s random bimbo? No. He has a desire to keep the status quo of him doing whatever he wants.


----------



## Not

Woundidwife said:


> I have said as much to him. That our marriage is over, that divorce would be inevitable, that I would want to start over with SOMEONE, and that it might not necessarily be him. Although he was at one time, he is no longer my “plan A” and not even necessarily “plan B”. I would want to at least give myself a chance to be happy with someone who has never betrayed me. If that fails, MAYBE I would eventually come back to him. His stance on that was this: “If you do that, you are looking for love, and I have love for you right here, so we would be done”. So be it. Yes, I WOULD be looking for love, and I have already seen what his love looks like. 27 years of controlling behavior, with a sprinkle of infidelity, and a handful of pretty promises for a wonderful future. Tempting? Not so much.


I’m wondering about the past 27 years now. Thinking there is a lot more to this story. Maybe a story you’ve avoided telling because you know how bad it’ll sound? That on top of everything else would put you in a position of being forced to make a decision you haven’t been ready to make? And the responses here are sometimes so out of hand harsh that that makes it all that much harder.

The unknown is scary as hell, scarier than what you’ve grown accustomed to over the years. I could be way off I know but if not, boy can I relate. But I’m one who came out of something similar and can say beyond doubt that getting out was the best thing I’ve ever done for myself. Life hasn’t been a cakewalk since but I wouldn’t change a thing.


----------



## *Deidre*

Woundidwife said:


> I have said as much to him. That our marriage is over, that divorce would be inevitable, that I would want to start over with SOMEONE, and that it might not necessarily be him. Although he was at one time, he is no longer my “plan A” and not even necessarily “plan B”. I would want to at least give myself a chance to be happy with someone who has never betrayed me. If that fails, MAYBE I would eventually come back to him. His stance on that was this: “If you do that, you are looking for love, and I have love for you right here, so we would be done”. So be it. Yes, I WOULD be looking for love, and I have already seen what his love looks like. 27 years of controlling behavior, with a sprinkle of infidelity, and a handful of pretty promises for a wonderful future. Tempting? Not so much.


So, he turns it around to say “if you do that, we’re done.” lol As if he is somehow in control of the next steps.

You don’t need his kind of “love.” I hope you stay true to you.😌


----------



## Not

*Deidre* said:


> So, he turns it around to say “if you do that, we’re done.” lol As if he is somehow in control of the next steps.
> 
> You don’t need his kind of “love.” I hope you stay true to you.😌


That fits in with the control OP mentioned. Where he’s messing up now is he’s playing this game with not only a wife who’s opened her eyes but she’s also pissed off now.


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## *Deidre*

Not said:


> That fits in with the control OP mentioned. Where he’s messing up now is he’s playing this game with not only a wife who’s opened her eyes but she’s also pissed off now.


Totally agree - he probably thinks he can play his old games and they’ll still work.

Stay strong, Woundid! You’re doing great.


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## snowbum

*Deidre* said:


> So, he turns it around to say “if you do that, we’re done.” lol As if he is somehow in control of the next steps.
> 
> You don’t need his kind of “love.” I hope you stay true to you.😌


yep. He wants to control you. He believes you’re going to roll over. To me that shows he’s not remorseful. If you don’t do it his way he’s out? Bye! If he were remorseful he’d understand. I hope you do t fall for his crap


----------



## Not

I hope I’m wrong but there may be a serious temper OP has had to deal with over the years. But perhaps one that she now sees as toddler-like and has grown to no longer fear.


----------



## Openminded

I never saw real remorse so I have no idea what that looks like. I did see some regret but more for his life being impacted than the fact that mine was totally devastated. Sounds like you’re seeing regret and not remorse. There’s a definite difference.


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## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> “If you do that, you are looking for love, and I have love for you right here, *so we would be done*”.


If after all that he has put you through, he has the [email protected] to say that, it would be over. Done. Finito. Hes 1000 miles away from remorse.


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## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> If after all that he has put you through, he has the [email protected] to say that, it would be over. Done. Finito. Hes 1000 miles away from remorse.


Sadly, I think it may be true that he is not truly remorseful.

He is working on himself, though in and outside of IC. He has also begun attending church, so this will make him a better person one way or another.

I am still working on healing myself, though. Had a GREAT day with my friend yesterday (same one from last weekend and the one I met at the summer work trip). We are like sisters “from another mister”! Got pedicures, had some wine. Doing breakfast and some shopping today. I got to meet both of her grown children and I am just really glad to be out of my own head for a while.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> I am still working on healing myself, though. Had a GREAT day with my friend yesterday (same one from last weekend and the one I met at the summer work trip). We are like sisters “from another mister”! Got pedicures, had some wine. Doing breakfast and some shopping today. I got to meet both of her grown children and I am just really glad to be out of my own head for a while.


Nice! Have a great day.


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## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> Sadly, I think this may be true.
> 
> He is working on himself, though in and outside of IC. He has also begun attending church, so this will make him a better person one way or another.
> 
> I am still working on healing myself, though. Had a GREAT day with my friend yesterday (same one from last weekend and the one I met at the summer work trip). We are like sisters “from another mister”! Got pedicures, had some wine. Doing breakfast and some shopping today. I got to meet both of her grown children and I am just really glad to be out of my own head for a while.


That sounds lovely! I'm happy you have such a wonderful support system. Keep busy just like that, it's kind of like a fake it till-you-make-it scenario. Definitely try not to dwell on your problems 24/7, they aren't going anywhere and you need to heal first. Hope you're having a good day today.


----------



## Cynthia

Woundidwife said:


> He is working on himself, though in and outside of IC. He has also begun attending church, so this will make him a better person one way or another.


Him going to church could mean any number of things, but don't assume it'll make him a better person. There are many wolves in sheep's clothing in the churches. He could surely be one of them. It's not too hard to keep up appearances for an hour and a half at church. With his history of controlling behavior, this kind of manipulation would fit right into his mo.



Woundidwife said:


> I am still working on healing myself, though. Had a GREAT day with my friend yesterday (same one from last weekend and the one I met at the summer work trip). We are like sisters “from another mister”! Got pedicures, had some wine. Doing breakfast and some shopping today. I got to meet both of her grown children and I am just really glad to be out of my own head for a while.


I love this. Good for you.


----------



## Woundidwife

Cynthia said:


> Him going to church could mean any number of things, but don't assume it'll make him a better person. There are many wolves in sheep's clothing in the churches. He could surely be one of them. It's not too hard to keep up appearances for an hour and a half at church. With his history of controlling behavior, this kind of manipulation would fit right into his mo.
> 
> 
> I love this. Good for you.


Thank you. That is kind of my plan, though I know I also need lots more “me time” to heal correctly.


----------



## Woundidwife

Megaforce said:


> I think you would be wise to jettison him permanently.
> 
> Not to beat a dead horse but as I and some others have pointed out, it seems very, very unlikely that his story is true.
> 
> Have you made any inquiries about the fairly obvious holes in this story? Among other things, the allegation that he would go this far as the result of a belief you had been drinking? That seems patently absurd.
> Or, that a man in his 40s could possibly be unaware that buying drinks for a woman co UK ld be interpreted as an overture? Could he possibly be so naive?
> Or that this was a random stranger and he has absolutely no personal information about her that could identify her? They spoke at length at the bar and he foes not know her name, her occupation, where she hails from? Were they just big sports fans and talked about the World Series? Or politics? Puhleeeeze.
> What ssf does your husband say about these, and his just happening to know a secluded spot on a moment's notice.
> Can you observe his demeanor and body language etc?
> My point is that reconciling would UK ld be tough enough with a truthful cheater ( is that an oxymoron?).
> You have one that seems to have no compunction about lying. He must view you as very gullible and that is insulting.


Neither the story nor the underlying reasons are my concern. I am more worried about whether or not I can happily live with someone who is capable of doing anything like this (to me). Not sure that is the case.


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> Neither the story nor the underlying reasons are my concern. I am more worried about whether or not I can happily live with someone who is capable of doing anything like this (to me). Not sure that is the case.


I would be bothered by the continued lying. Have you ever challenged him on this BS? 
But, I understand if the mere betrayal itself, without regard to the story or reasons is a dealbreaker.
Once I decided to divorce, I made no effort to get details, challenge inconsistencies or to hear reasons.
I just think what he has told you sounds like utter crap.


----------



## Woundidwife

Diana7 said:


> That comment alone he made shows his total lack of understanding of the devastating effect his cheating has had on you.


Yeah. I still don’t think he really gets it.


----------



## Woundidwife

Not said:


> I hope I’m wrong but there may be a serious temper OP has had to deal with over the years. But perhaps one that she now sees as toddler-like and has grown to no longer fear.


No, you are absolutely correct. I had asked for him to see someone for anger management several times, for many, many years. I finally gave up and I guess I just accepted my lot in life. I didn’t show my emotions because that always ended in having to deal with his. It was just more work than necessary and was horribly draining. I don’t have extra energy to deal with a grown man’s shyte. You know? We were raising two children. We were not necessarily a unified team, however. He was a strict disciplinarian, while I tried to find a balance, but err on the side of nurturing, loving, and appreciating our kids for who THEY were—not trying to mold them into what I or my CH (or anyone else) wanted them to be. Those differing perspectives on parenting was also an issue. Our children are grown now, but there was a HUGE disagreement not long ago (about 3 years now) with one of them, and both children and I confronted him about his anger then. For a moment, I really thought THAT was going to be the catalyst to fix him, but it wasn’t. He only became more angry and decided that I was a much worse mother than he originally thought. (Because they loved me unconditionally, and loved him too, but mostly feared him. They had disrespected me during their teen years, however, because he had belittled me so many times in front of them that they knew who was REALLY in charge and that I didn’t make the rules and had to answer to him too. Of course, this was all my fault, though, and the reason why I was a bad mother. I tried, but I couldn’t discipline them…they didn’t listen to me anymore.) The aftermath of that blow-up was a terrible, terrible time for me. It was right before I had a surgery and he refused to talk to me for the entire week prior. I was scared and crying and completely ignored (not comforted) during pre-op. The only positive that came out of that blow up was that he DID FINALLY lighten up on our younger child—who had always actively opposed Dad’s angry mannerisms. 

Six months from that surgery with no real or massively noticeable improvements towards me, I decided to leave him. When I shared this information with one of the grown children, my dear sweet newlyweded child said, “You go through these things, Mom, but in the end you and Dad really love each other.” So I stayed. Fast forward to this spring when he had a near death experience. I thought THAT would open his eyes to becoming a better, more empathetic person. Instead he felt like none of us “really cared that he almost died”. Then, I planned a bunch (6?) of awesome mini vacations for us throughout the entire summer. I thought they were wonderful and that we were closer than we had been in years. Between the last two mini vacations was when he f***ed a skank, so obviously they weren’t as great or soul-bonding as I thought. Then, he confessed at the crack of dawn on one of the most high pressure days of my job. That part wasn’t anger—just more selfishness. 

I hold all the anger now and I have enough for both of us.


----------



## Openminded

I wonder if there was a connection between his near-death experience and the urge to cheat (assuming, of course, that was the first time he cheated — and that’s something that’s really unknown)? Yes, your husband is an extraordinarily selfish man. It’s only about him.


----------



## Woundidwife

Openminded said:


> I wonder if there was a connection between his near-death experience and the urge to cheat (assuming, of course, that was the first time he cheated — and that’s something that’s really unknown)? Yes, your husband is an extraordinarily selfish man. It’s only about him.


Yes. He has now concluded that he was depressed (when he believed that none of the 3 of us really cared enough that he almost died). So the skank paid him some attention. Lucky him. And me. Look where all that got us.

ETA: He realized that he wasn’t the wonderful husband nor super-dad that he thought he was. His ego really took a hit. He started drinking MORE. Couldn’t really exercise due to an injury related to the near-death experience…put on weight, etc. He was depressed, but she told him how “good looking he was for an older guy”. (He says she was approximately our age, which probably means between 30 and 55!). Anyway, she said the right thing at the right time and he was all in. Idiot. Such a f***ing idiot. (He felt IMMEDIATE regret and realized that what he thought was so bad in his life REALLY WASN’T THAT BAD.) 

Huh. You don’t say. (Idiot! 😡)


----------



## Openminded

Woundidwife said:


> Yes. He now believes he was depressed when he believed none of the 3 of us really cared enough that he almost died. So the skank paid him some attention. Lucky him. And me. Look where all that got us.


Hopefully he does, or will, realize that he destroyed his family with his stupid thinking. Because if you do choose to reconcile it needs to be a completely new marriage with a very changed man. The question is whether he’s capable of that. Sadly, my exH wasn’t (although there are a few success stories here so it can happen although the triggers apparently last for years).


----------



## snowbum

Woundidwife said:


> Neither the story nor the underlying reasons are my concern. I am more worried about whether or not I can happily live with someone who is capable of doing anything like this (to me). Not sure that is the case.
> [/he sounds like a narcisist who still feels you’d be lucky to stay with him. You know the real him . Do you want more of that?


----------



## Jimi007

After all of your posts and your most recent really hit home for me.

Yes divorce and move on.
I've been on the recieveing end of the anger BS
It does not change


----------



## Diana7

Woundidwife said:


> Yeah. I still don’t think he really gets it.


Agreed. He doesn't get that you want love from someone who hasn't betrayed you. That love from him isn't the same now you can't trust him.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Neither the story nor the underlying reasons are my concern. I am more worried about whether or not I can happily live with someone who is capable of doing anything like this (to me). Not sure that is the case.


Digging deeper and looking more thoroughly into his claims, something many have encouraged, makes sense should you be seriously considering R with your ch. Its all part of the well worn path of investigatory steps that Betrayed Spouses have taken in order to determine, *as thoroughly as possible*, who the person is that you may consider R'ing with. To get as complete an understanding of what actually transpired and who they really are makes complete sense in that case.

It seems now, however, that the desire to possibly pursue R'ing with him is fading fast (for very good reasons imo and feel free to correct me if Im wrong). As I read your updates, I feel like Im watching a sunset...the sunset of the the era of him as your h. You are taking a deeper look into your marriage history in toto, and are coming to the conclusion that with this ultimate betrayal piled on, theres not enough there worth fighting for and its time to turn the page.

Im also sensing that you may have taken a couple of these......


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> Yes. He has now concluded that he was depressed (when he believed that none of the 3 of us really cared enough that he almost died). So the skank paid him some attention. Lucky him. And me. Look where all that got us.
> 
> ETA: He realized that he wasn’t the wonderful husband nor super-dad that he thought he was. His ego really took a hit. He started drinking MORE. Couldn’t really exercise due to an injury related to the near-death experience…put on weight, etc. He was depressed, but she told him how “good looking he was for an older guy”. (He says she was approximately our age, which probably means between 30 and 55!). Anyway, she said the right thing at the right time and he was all in. Idiot. Such a f***ing idiot. (He felt IMMEDIATE regret and realized that what he thought was so bad in his life REALLY WASN’T THAT BAD.)
> 
> Huh. You don’t say. (Idiot! 😡)


Woundid, I've been in your shoes with the husband who wasn't available for me before major surgery, pretended to sleep when I was being helped to the bathroom by another man (a nurse, but still!) and was indifferent to my pain. 

When someone can do that, and then has the nerve to complain when the shoe is on the other foot, that is a very selfish person with a victim/persecution complex. He is who he is, and there's no changing him. That affair might have been to lash back at you, and bring you down a few pegs, to his level.

Lots of people go through horrible things and don't take it out on their loved ones, they ones who do, well, you have to question is they even know the meaning and nature of love. 

I don't think your anger's going to just go away, but you do have to find a way to deal with it whatever you do, or it'll eat you from the inside out. Why let him destroy more of you? He's done enough damage.


----------



## Diana7

Woundidwife said:


> Yes. He has now concluded that he was depressed (when he believed that none of the 3 of us really cared enough that he almost died). So the skank paid him some attention. Lucky him. And me. Look where all that got us.
> 
> ETA: He realized that he wasn’t the wonderful husband nor super-dad that he thought he was. His ego really took a hit. He started drinking MORE. Couldn’t really exercise due to an injury related to the near-death experience…put on weight, etc. He was depressed, but she told him how “good looking he was for an older guy”. (He says she was approximately our age, which probably means between 30 and 55!). Anyway, she said the right thing at the right time and he was all in. Idiot. Such a f***ing idiot. (He felt IMMEDIATE regret and realized that what he thought was so bad in his life REALLY WASN’T THAT BAD.)
> 
> Huh. You don’t say. (Idiot! 😡)


Depression is NO excuse to deliberately go out and cheat.


----------



## snowbum

Diana7 said:


> Depression is NO excuse to deliberately go out and cheat.


Amen. What he did shows total disregard for you


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Digging deeper and looking more thoroughly into his claims, something many have encouraged, makes sense should you be seriously considering R with your ch. Its all part of the well worn path of investigatory steps that Betrayed Spouses have taken in order to determine, *as thoroughly as possible*, who the person is that you may consider R'ing with. To get as complete an understanding of what actually transpired and who they really are makes complete sense in that case.
> 
> It seems now, however, that the desire to possibly pursue R'ing with him is fading fast (for very good reasons imo and feel free to correct me if Im wrong). As I read your updates, I feel like Im watching a sunset...the sunset of the the era of him as your h. You are taking a deeper look into your marriage history in toto, and are coming to the conclusion that with this ultimate betrayal piled on, theres not enough there worth fighting for and its time to turn the page.
> 
> Im also sensing that you may have taken a couple of these......
> View attachment 93106


Yes. I may have taken a few of those, actually. Lol

I think I already know the whole story, but I have tried everything to get closure and that just isn’t possible. I can find no technology to corroborate ANY of his story (didn’t have his phone, bar cameras were down due to remodel, and delete every 24 hours anyway, etc.)—the perfect crime, and of course, I can’t really believe a word he says, so here I am. Just pissed off at the world most days… or a blubbering mess on others.


----------



## Woundidwife

Diana7 said:


> Depression is NO excuse to deliberately go out and cheat.


Oh, not to worry. It wasn’t intentional. It was “an accident”! It was a “mistake”! It just “happened”!

And here I thought a “mistake” was when I forgot to stop and pick up his prescription. My bad.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I have personally never “accidentally” DRIVEN MILES TO A DESERTED PARKING LOT to make a “mistake” that “just happened”!!! 🤬


----------



## Diana7

Woundidwife said:


> Oh, not to worry. It wasn’t intentional. It was “an accident”! It was a “mistake”! It just “happened”!
> 
> And here I thought a “mistake” was when I forgot to stop and pick up his prescription. My bad.
> 
> I don’t know about the rest of you, but I have personally never “accidentally” DRIVEN MILES TO A DESERTED PARKING LOT to make a “mistake” that “just happened”!!! 🤬


Yes, he 'just happened 'to go out. He 'just happened' to drink. He 'just happened' to chat up another lady. He 'just happened' to talk to her for ages and flirt. He 'just happened' to agree to go in the car with her. He 'just happened' to drive to a secluded place. He 'just happened' to have sex. Sickening. He made several awful decisions; it was no mistake and its highly offensive to you to call it that. He clearly isn't anywhere near truly repentant.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> Oh, not to worry. It wasn’t intentional. It was “an accident”! It was a “mistake”! It just “happened”!
> 
> And here I thought a “mistake” was when I forgot to stop and pick up his prescription. My bad.
> 
> I don’t know about the rest of you, but I have personally never “accidentally” DRIVEN MILES TO A DESERTED PARKING LOT to make a “mistake” that “just happened”!!! 🤬


There are probably at least 500 deliberate actions that are needed to even have a ONS. So no. It’s never anything but deliberate and planned unless she raped him.


----------



## snowbum

Woundidwife said:


> Oh, not to worry. It wasn’t intentional. It was “an accident”! It was a “mistake”! It just “happened”!
> 
> And here I thought a “mistake” was when I forgot to stop and pick up his prescription. My bad.
> 
> I don’t know about the rest of you, but I have personally never “accidentally” DRIVEN MILES TO A DESERTED PARKING LOT to make a “mistake” that “just happened”!!! 🤬


did you tell him your reconciling? Is that what he believes? If that’s what he says he’s saying he thinks you’re a pushover and has no respect for you


----------



## Woundidwife

QuietRiot said:


> There are probably at least 500 deliberate actions that are needed to even have a ONS. So no. It’s never anything but deliberate and planned unless she raped him.


Exactly.


----------



## snowbum

Diana7 said:


> Yes, he 'just happened 'to go out. He 'just happened' to drink. He 'just happened' to chat up another lady. He 'just happened' to talk to her for ages and flirt. He 'just happened' to agree to go in the car with her. He 'just happened' to drive to a secluded place. He 'just happened' to have sex. Sickening. He made several awful decisions; it was no mistake and its highly offensive to you to call it that. He clearly isn't anywhere near truly repentant.


This should be game over, he really doesn’t care.


----------



## Woundidwife

snowbum said:


> did you tell him your reconciling? Is that what he believes?


I have been TRYING, and that is all I could tell him. I am battling with myself. My sticking point/ issue is that I am not sure I could live with the version of me who could actually forgive, stay, and reconcile. This is a war within my own psyche and it is not fun. I hate every minute of it!

From what I have read, I do believe he is having regret but not real remorse. He is not safe for anyone yet—of that much, I am positive.


----------



## snowbum

Woundidwife said:


> I have been TRYING, and that is all I could tell him. I am battling with myself. My sticking point/ issue is that I am not sure I could live with the version of me who could actually forgive, stay, and reconcile. This is a war within my own psyche and it is not fun. I hate every minute of it!


he has list nothing. He feels no remorse, only irritation his fling wasn’t accepted and forgotten.
Are you ok wondering what he’ll do when he’s not loved enough , getting his way?


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> I have been TRYING, and that is all I could tell him. I am battling with myself. My sticking point/ issue is that I am not sure I could live with the version of me who could actually forgive, stay, and reconcile. This is a war within my own psyche and it is not fun. I hate every minute of it!


Maybe that's the problem. How can you try to reconcile when you're still processing the shock and pain of his actions? Cut yourself some slack and give yourself as much time as you need to feel more even keeled. Why are you in such a hurry? It's his mess; he has to clean up his **** while h waits for you to make sense of your world and determine what's best for you.

Don't let him put any pressure whatsoever on you; it's not his prerogative anymore.


----------



## Diana7

Woundidwife said:


> I have been TRYING, and that is all I could tell him. I am battling with myself. My sticking point/ issue is that I am not sure I could live with the version of me who could actually forgive, stay, and reconcile. This is a war within my own psyche and it is not fun. I hate every minute of it!
> 
> From what I have read, I do believe he is having regret but not real remorse. He is not safe for anyone yet—of that much, I am positive.


Remember you can forgive without reconciliation. The test is can you trust him again. Not sure I could but some seem to be able to.


----------



## Affaircare

Woundidwife said:


> I have been TRYING, and that is all I could tell him. I am battling with myself. * My sticking point/ issue is that I am not sure I could live with the version of me who could actually forgive, stay, and reconcile.* This is a war within my own psyche and it is not fun. I hate every minute of it!
> 
> From what I have read, I do believe he is having regret but not real remorse. He is not safe for anyone yet—of that much, I am positive.


@Woundidwife ,

Speaking as a person who was unfaithful whose spouse did stay, reconcile and forgive, may I mention something? For there to be true reconciliation, there needs to be acceptance that a) there will be consequences and it's not the faithful spouse "punishing" the unfaithful one--it's just the natural result of choices made! b) it will never, EVER go back to "the way it was"--that marriage is dead and was killed the moment the infidelity was introduced. c) before a faithful spouse can forgive, the unfaithful spouse has to dig into themselves DEEPLY and understand what they did and what it was inside themselves that allowed them to act like that...AND work on it to change...AND act in a wholly new, different, changed way consistently for quite a long time! If those three things (a,b,c) are not happening...then it's not true reconciliation. It's rugsweeping. 

If you did truly reconcile, it would be with a man who has realized that his anger killed a lot of love in his marriage. It would be with a man who took personal responsibility for his own actions BEFORE the affair and AFTERWARD! It would be with a man who looked at himself and what he did rather than pointing fingers at you. It would be with a man who was humble and admitted--to himself and to others--that he was wrong, he thought wrong, he behaved wrong, and he wronged YOU. 

If that were the man you were seeing now, it would still 100% be within your right to say, "Yes, but adultery still killed the marriage and I can not get passed it. This marriage is dead due to your actions." And if that were the man you were seeing now, it is within the realm of possibility (not guaranteed) that you might be able to build an entirely new relationship, forgive the past, and stay BECAUSE he'd be a man who's becoming a better human and husband. 

Your issue is that you ARE NOT seeing that kind of behavior. You are NOT seeing a or b or c! And yet he's pushing you to reconcile, forgive and stay. Your issue is that deep within, at your inner core, you know that you can not return to "the way it was before" and yet that's exactly what he's pressing you to do! There's dissonance between your values of not returning to "the way it was" and knowing that without seeing a, b, c it will go right back to "the way it was".

That's why you can't stay, forgive and reconcile--because that's not really being offered. Plus note to self: "forgive" does not mean you stay and reconcile. "Forgive" just means that you were wronged and are owed...and you acknowledge it can't be paid and you volunteer to lay down the weapon and never pick it up again. NOWHERE does it say you have to go back to being abused again! My mom beat me when I was a child, and I've forgiven her because I recognize she has a mental illness and is a human being. That doesn't mean I live with her. In fact, it doesn't mean I have her close in my life either! It's similar here: "forgive" could very well be that you live in peace in your own home, divorce and have your own finances and "say so"...and yet you lay down the weapon of hurting him for what he did to you.


----------



## snowbum

You told him you would need a new relationship in order to reconcile. He said if that’s the case you’re fine. His answer to you is: accept me for what I am and move on. If you want him to woo you back, he point blank told you you get the life he has now. He’s not starting again. Is that ok?


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> I have been TRYING, and that is all I could tell him. I am battling with myself. My sticking point/ issue is that I am not sure I could live with the version of me who could actually forgive, stay, and reconcile. This is a war within my own psyche and it is not fun. I hate every minute of it!
> 
> From what I have read, I do believe he is having regret but not real remorse. He is not safe for anyone yet—of that much, I am positive.


In my humble opinion, I think your mindset should be set on divorce and he should be moving heaven and earth to help you heal, and help you move to a place that might be something-other-than-divorce. If he isn't doing all of that, he's not ready for R.


----------



## Openminded

Take as much time as you need — for you. There is no quick fix. I’m the example of how not to reconcile. I did it the way women did when I was growing up long ago because that’s what I was familiar with. Lots of rug-sweeping and not much accountability— a rush to return to what passed for “normal”. Assuming you reconcile, your husband needs to understand that it takes years — several at a minimum — to recover and even then you will never forget what he’s capable of doing. It stays with you forever.


----------



## Cynthia

snowbum said:


> he has list nothing. He feels no remorse, only irritation his fling wasn’t accepted and forgotten.
> Are you ok wondering what he’ll do when he’s not loved enough , getting his way?


Confessing was supposed to make him feel better, but it has made things worse. 
- sarcasm - This is obviously your fault, @Woundidwife. You should be happy that he is such an honest man. - / sarcasm -

(Edited to add sarcasm. The first try didn't show up.)


----------



## ShatteredKat

^^^^^

YHTBKM!


----------



## DosEquis

Diana7 said:


> Yes, he 'just happened 'to go out. He 'just happened' to drink. He 'just happened' to chat up another lady. He 'just happened' to talk to her for ages and flirt. He 'just happened' to agree to go in the car with her. He 'just happened' to drive to a secluded place. He 'just happened' to have sex. Sickening. He made several awful decisions; it was no mistake and its highly offensive to you to call it that. He clearly isn't anywhere near truly repentant.


Great synopsis...."It just happened"....first cousin to, "Its not what it looks like." 🙄😳


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> No, you are absolutely correct. I had asked for him to see someone for anger management several times, for many, many years. I finally gave up and I guess I just accepted my lot in life. I didn’t show my emotions because that always ended in having to deal with his. It was just more work than necessary and was horribly draining. I don’t have extra energy to deal with a grown man’s shyte. You know? We were raising two children. We were not necessarily a unified team, however. He was a strict disciplinarian, while I tried to find a balance, but err on the side of nurturing, loving, and appreciating our kids for who THEY were—not trying to mold them into what I or my CH (or anyone else) wanted them to be. Those differing perspectives on parenting was also an issue. Our children are grown now, but there was a HUGE disagreement not long ago (about 3 years now) with one of them, and both children and I confronted him about his anger then. For a moment, I really thought THAT was going to be the catalyst to fix him, but it wasn’t. He only became more angry and decided that I was a much worse mother than he originally thought. (Because they loved me unconditionally, and loved him too, but mostly feared him. They had disrespected me during their teen years, however, because he had belittled me so many times in front of them that they knew who was REALLY in charge and that I didn’t make the rules and had to answer to him too. Of course, this was all my fault, though, and the reason why I was a bad mother. I tried, but I couldn’t discipline them…they didn’t listen to me anymore.) The aftermath of that blow-up was a terrible, terrible time for me. It was right before I had a surgery and he refused to talk to me for the entire week prior. I was scared and crying and completely ignored (not comforted) during pre-op. The only positive that came out of that blow up was that he DID FINALLY lighten up on our younger child—who had always actively opposed Dad’s angry mannerisms.
> 
> Six months from that surgery with no real or massively noticeable improvements towards me, I decided to leave him. When I shared this information with one of the grown children, my dear sweet newlyweded child said, “You go through these things, Mom, but in the end you and Dad really love each other.” So I stayed. Fast forward to this spring when he had a near death experience. I thought THAT would open his eyes to becoming a better, more empathetic person. Instead he felt like none of us “really cared that he almost died”. Then, I planned a bunch (6?) of awesome mini vacations for us throughout the entire summer. I thought they were wonderful and that we were closer than we had been in years. Between the last two mini vacations was when he f***ed a skank, so obviously they weren’t as great or soul-bonding as I thought. Then, he confessed at the crack of dawn on one of the most high pressure days of my job. That part wasn’t anger—just more selfishness.
> 
> I hold all the anger now and I have enough for both of us.


This guy sounds abusive. Have you considered researching the Cluster B personality disorders?


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> Yes. I may have taken a few of those, actually. Lol
> 
> I think I already know the whole story, but I have tried everything to get closure and that just isn’t possible. I can find no technology to corroborate ANY of his story (didn’t have his phone, bar cameras were down due to remodel, and delete every 24 hours anyway, etc.)—the perfect crime, and of course, I can’t really believe a word he says, so here I am. Just pissed off at the world most days… or a blubbering mess on others.


Have him take a polygraph.


----------



## Megaforce

Your husband is not owning ****. And he is insulting you by expecting you to believe the absolute baloney he has told you.
You may never get the truth. 
The way you describe him: this is a guy who confessed due to guilt? What crap. Somebody was going to out him.

You write well, are articulate etc. Most people marry within their own intellect range, so I presume your husband is no dummy. Yet he expects you to buy his story. How insulting. How does he relate this crap with a straight face?
He must be seriously unbalanced to get so pissed at the suspicion of you drinking that he would retaliate by cheating. See, unless he is completely psycho, this is not why he cheated. It has nothing to do with you drinking.

It was preplanned with someone he knows and something other than guilt caused him to inform you.
His story does not make sense.


----------



## *Deidre*

I think you have to come to the point of realizing that you’ve been in a marriage that has largely stayed afloat by you. Your integrity. Your good intentions. He doesn’t seem like he respects you and thought he could just move forward after his “confession” with you as his maid.

I hope you stay true to you. Reconciliation only works if the cheater is really working hard to own the mess they’ve created. And your husband isn’t owning it. He knows showing up at church a few times will get you to be like “ahh, he’s going to church.” And you have posted that.

I agree with others, he knew this woman possibly and it might not have even been one time. The story doesn’t add up and he’s shocked he can’t push you around anymore.


----------



## oldshirt

TXTrini said:


> When someone can do that, and then has the nerve to complain when the shoe is on the other foot, that is a very selfish person with a victim/persecution complex. He is who he is, and there's no changing him. That affair might have been to lash back at you, and bring you down a few pegs, to his level.


I've been wondering this whole thread why he confessed the affair in the first place. I may have even asked that question in the first few pages but I can't remember if she answered or don't remember her answer if she did. 

I mean after all, she was out of town and he could have just gone and done his thing and then not said a word when she got home and she would be none the wiser. Why did he confess?

Perhaps what you've said above may contain some of the answer. 

If that is the case, then it not only shows that he is an adulterer and has very poor boundaries and impulse control,, but is downright vengeful and conniving and cruel as well.


----------



## gr8ful1

oldshirt said:


> If that is the case, then it not only shows that he is an adulterer and has very poor boundaries and impulse control,, but is downright vengeful and conniving and cruel as well.


So confessing is “vengeful and conniving and cruel” ? That‘s a new one for me…


----------



## oldshirt

gr8ful1 said:


> So confessing is “vengeful and conniving and cruel” ? That‘s a new one for me…


No. 

Going out into the night, picking up some stranger in a bar and getting down with her in the car and then telling the OP about it when he didn't have to. 

The 'confession' may have actually been the twist of the knife.


----------



## oldshirt

@Woundidwife , could you indulge me for just a moment and answer a couple questions I have as slip into my Hannibal Lector headspace?

What time did you get off the phone with him the night he supposedly did this?

And how far away from your house is the bar he met this chick?

Please Excuse me if you have stated this in other posts but I am a bit too pressed for time to go back through 30 pages.


----------



## gr8ful1

oldshirt said:


> Going out into the night, picking up some stranger in a bar and getting down with her in the car and then telling the OP about it when he didn't have to.


We fully agree going along with that woman was morally evil (assuming you even believe evil exists). Most folks would agree NOT telling OP would rob her of her agency in continuing the M or not. You seem to believe “ignorance is bliss”. Is it not remotely possible that after he ****ed that woman from the bar he then actually did the RIGHT thing by confessing and preserving OP’s agency?


----------



## snowbum

gr8ful1 said:


> So confessing is “vengeful and conniving and cruel” ? That‘s a new one for me…


It’s cruel when you blame your spouse for behavior they didn’t do and then lie about details


----------



## snowbum

gr8ful1 said:


> We fully agree going along with that woman was morally evil (assuming you even believe evil exists). Most folks would agree NOT telling OP would rob her of her agency in continuing the M or not. You seem to believe “ignorance is bliss”. Is it not remotely possible that after he ****ed that woman from the bar he then actually did the RIGHT thing by confessing and preserving OP’s agency?


 if he didn’t bs her” don’t know name, didn’t take phone( ********) conveniently no cameras. Oh, and if she’s not into him now he’s done. That’s not decent behavior


----------



## gr8ful1

snowbum said:


> f he didn’t bs her” don’t know name, didn’t take phone( ******) conveniently no cameras. Oh, and if she’s not into him now he’s done. That’s not decent behavior


Precisely where did I say anything of his behavior at the bar that night was “decent behavior” ? Please quote me.

I am merely pointing out the flaws with the argument that he never ought to have confessed anything, thereby robbing her off her agency. As a woman, do you agree with that??


----------



## QuietRiot

gr8ful1 said:


> We fully agree going along with that woman was morally evil (assuming you even believe evil exists). Most folks would agree NOT telling OP would rob her of her agency in continuing the M or not. You seem to believe “ignorance is bliss”. Is it not remotely possible that after he ****ed that woman from the bar he then actually did the RIGHT thing by confessing and preserving OP’s agency?


He confessed to relieve himself of the guilt (or perhaps because he was seen and feared being outed who knows). He then blame shifted, lied, minimized, gaslighted, manipulated and love bombed to try and ensure she didn’t leave him. 

That’s not a man giving his wife her agency because he’s truly contrite and remorseful, that’s someone still working for his #1, himself. He was doing damage control. 

I am glad she got a confession… so she can see who she’s dealing with… but he wasn’t doing the right thing unless he gave her the whole truth and gladly helps her divorce him if that’s what she chooses to do. No manipulation, no lies, no love bombing… that’s giving her agency back. Not whatever he is doing right now.


----------



## TXTrini

oldshirt said:


> I've been wondering this whole thread why he confessed the affair in the first place. I may have even asked that question in the first few pages but I can't remember if she answered or don't remember her answer if she did.
> 
> I mean after all, she was out of town and he could have just gone and done his thing and then not said a word when she got home and she would be none the wiser. Why did he confess?
> 
> Perhaps what you've said above may contain some of the answer.
> 
> If that is the case, then it not only shows that he is an adulterer and has very poor boundaries and impulse control,, but is downright vengeful and conniving and cruel as well.


I hope not; that's not a good feeling if you realize it's true.


----------



## Megaforce

oldshirt said:


> I've been wondering this whole thread why he confessed the affair in the first place. I may have even asked that question in the first few pages but I can't remember if she answered or don't remember her answer if she did.
> 
> I mean after all, she was out of town and he could have just gone and done his thing and then not said a word when she got home and she would be none the wiser. Why did he confess?
> 
> Perhaps what you've said above may contain some of the answer.
> 
> If that is the case, then it not only shows that he is an adulterer and has very poor boundaries and impulse control,, but is downright vengeful and conniving and cruel as well.


Confessed allegedly due to guilt. Okay, anyone interested in buying the Brooklyn Bridge?


----------



## Megaforce

Guy belittled his wife in front of the kids. Undermined her. Big time anger problem. Now he hears and lies about details. Sounds like a real catch.


----------



## Not

Woundidwife said:


> No, you are absolutely correct. I had asked for him to see someone for anger management several times, for many, many years. I finally gave up and I guess I just accepted my lot in life. I didn’t show my emotions because that always ended in having to deal with his. It was just more work than necessary and was horribly draining. I don’t have extra energy to deal with a grown man’s shyte. You know? We were raising two children. We were not necessarily a unified team, however. He was a strict disciplinarian, while I tried to find a balance, but err on the side of nurturing, loving, and appreciating our kids for who THEY were—not trying to mold them into what I or my CH (or anyone else) wanted them to be. Those differing perspectives on parenting was also an issue. Our children are grown now, but there was a HUGE disagreement not long ago (about 3 years now) with one of them, and both children and I confronted him about his anger then. For a moment, I really thought THAT was going to be the catalyst to fix him, but it wasn’t. He only became more angry and decided that I was a much worse mother than he originally thought. (Because they loved me unconditionally, and loved him too, but mostly feared him. They had disrespected me during their teen years, however, because he had belittled me so many times in front of them that they knew who was REALLY in charge and that I didn’t make the rules and had to answer to him too. Of course, this was all my fault, though, and the reason why I was a bad mother. I tried, but I couldn’t discipline them…they didn’t listen to me anymore.) The aftermath of that blow-up was a terrible, terrible time for me. It was right before I had a surgery and he refused to talk to me for the entire week prior. I was scared and crying and completely ignored (not comforted) during pre-op. The only positive that came out of that blow up was that he DID FINALLY lighten up on our younger child—who had always actively opposed Dad’s angry mannerisms.
> 
> Six months from that surgery with no real or massively noticeable improvements towards me, I decided to leave him. When I shared this information with one of the grown children, my dear sweet newlyweded child said, “You go through these things, Mom, but in the end you and Dad really love each other.” So I stayed. Fast forward to this spring when he had a near death experience. I thought THAT would open his eyes to becoming a better, more empathetic person. Instead he felt like none of us “really cared that he almost died”. Then, I planned a bunch (6?) of awesome mini vacations for us throughout the entire summer. I thought they were wonderful and that we were closer than we had been in years. Between the last two mini vacations was when he f***ed a skank, so obviously they weren’t as great or soul-bonding as I thought. Then, he confessed at the crack of dawn on one of the most high pressure days of my job. That part wasn’t anger—just more selfishness.
> 
> I hold all the anger now and I have enough for both of us.


I had a feeling. You were sprinkling little hints here and there all throughout the thread. I won't comment further on how I think the past almost three decades have been for you, you've lived it and you're way past needing to be told what to do about it. It's been on your mind for decades. What I can comment on is life after getting out.

I was married for just under 26 years in very similar circumstances, sans the cheating. If your anything like I was at the end you're pretty beat down and just a shell of what you could be. It took the death of a very young loved one to wake me up. I was throwing away what time I do have left.

At the end during a talk about the splitting of assets the conversation turned serious one day as he asked a question. He wanted to know, why now? I described my current state which included feeling like outside of the kids I felt I had no reason to live. I have never been so low in my life. He then launched into how the divorce was so damaging for him and how I had ruined his plans for retiring early. That's when it hit me fully, he had never cared, ever. I mean, I knew on one level he was that selfish but to fully comprehend what that actually meant for the first time in 25 years? All those years had been something I had imagined or something I was never fully aware of the reality of. All of my memories? I had made excuses for his behavior so thoroughly and for so long that I no longer felt like I could trust myself with anything.

I’ve been out for five years now. Life has been both scary and exhilarating. Not having to worry about what his mood is going to be when he gets home from work, not having to deal with the demeaning comments to the kids and I, not having to watch my every move and carefully weigh every response thoroughly before I speak? Absolutely liberating and wonderful.

But it’s also very scary because I had never been on my own before. There is so much I don’t know how to do and will need help with along the way, which will be expensive but the trade off has been more than worth it. Hiring a plumber sounds fantastic versus what it would’ve been like to deal with that situation with him lol! Just no!

If you do decide to leave stick with the therapy. Due to your circumstances you don’t really know who you are. Right now you are WW + 27 years with him. That equals someone who has basically made herself small enough to keep him happy, or at least try too. You’ll be unearthing the authentic you. For me, I don’t feel super fantastically special or anything but I do feel freaking good! Not having to adjust my behavior to keep the peace and to authentically be who I am and speak my mind freely and live without constant judgment? It’s like getting out of prison.

And you will be hearing some labels getting tossed around in regards to his behavior which is a normal response to your story. His behavior will fit too. But in the end regardless of the labels he is still the person you’ve always known and the labels won’t change anything or shed any new light. He is still what he always has been. In regards to the labels I found that it was a distraction and took my focus off my mission. So I didn’t spend much time on that because getting out was the point.

The anger. Stay in therapy. I’m sure it’s not the same for everyone but with me and in my attempts to self correct my thinking and attitudes I had developed over the years with him I wound up self sabotaging and swung back to far the other way. You’ll need to find your balance and you’ll need a sounding board but you sound like you have family and friends to also assist with that and in that you are very fortunate. 

I’m sorry WW. You have a long road ahead of you and you’re already tired. Like everyone is saying, take your time. This is your life and you can do as you please, whatever that is.


----------



## oldshirt

@Woundidwife a couple more questions. 

Has he ever done something vengeful and hurtful in anger to anyone in the past? Things like breaking or throwing away any of the kid's toys if they were annoying him with it? Punishing the kids way out of proportion to their offence with intentionally hurtful punishment like depriving them of food for an extensive period of time or grounding them over a fun family outing that everyone was looking forward to? Has he ever done anything intentionally hurtful to you out of anger or has ever done something to another friend or family member if they have crossed him? Has he ever hurt or given away a family pet or relinquished them to the animal shelter while you and the kids were crying in the car? 

You say he has a temper and anger issues, but has he ever done something hurtful to someone that has crossed him?

And one more question about the night he went to the bar,, what night of the week was it and was he scheduled to work the next morning? 

Is it normal or out of character for him to go to a bar late at night when he has to work the next day?


----------



## oldshirt

gr8ful1 said:


> We fully agree going along with that woman was morally evil (assuming you even believe evil exists). Most folks would agree NOT telling OP would rob her of her agency in continuing the M or not. You seem to believe “ignorance is bliss”. Is it not remotely possible that after he ****ed that woman from the bar he then actually did the RIGHT thing by confessing and preserving OP’s agency?


You and I are not talking about the same thing. I am contemplating something completely different and looking down a completely different pathway than some horny guy hooking up with some skank while his wife is out of town. This may not be some garden variety hook up by some cad.


----------



## Not

gr8ful1 said:


> So confessing is “vengeful and conniving and cruel” ? That‘s a new one for me…


It is if he had the affair to get back at her because he thought she had been drinking. The only way to make her aware of the payback and to suffer the consequences of her misbehavior would be to tell her about the affair. That is pure cruelty.


----------



## oldshirt

Megaforce said:


> Confessed allegedly due to guilt. Okay, anyone interested in buying the Brooklyn Bridge?


Yeah, there's got to be a more nuts and bolts reason and more purpose behind it than trying to clear one's conscience. 

If this were just some horny guy that had a window of opportunity while his wife was out of town, he'd be running bodies through the wood chipper and burying the remains in the garden as compost to keep her from finding out.


----------



## snowbum

Not said:


> It is if he had the affair to get back at her because he thought she had been drinking. The only way to make her aware of the payback and to suffer the consequences of her misbehavior would be to tell her about the affair. That is pure cruelty.


Absolutely. Blame wife for drinking, get shut faced yourself, and bang someone. But he cheated the night before he even blamed her…. He says.


----------



## gr8ful1

Not said:


> It is if he had the affair to get back at her because he thought she had been drinking. The only way to make her aware of the payback and to suffer the consequences of her misbehavior would be to tell her about the affair. That is pure cruelty.


Disagree. ****ing the woman at the bar was the cruelty, not confessing and therefore granting her agency. If you want to say they go together, fine, but the adultery was objectively the primary sin. We can only speculate whether he meant to twist the knife and delighted in seeing her hurt with the confession. We can’t know his motives in confessing unless (perhaps) he’s examined under polygraph.


----------



## Not

.



gr8ful1 said:


> Disagree. ****ing the woman at the bar was the cruelty, not confessing and therefore granting her agency. If you want to say they go together, fine, but the adultery was objectively the primary sin. We can only speculate whether he meant to twist the knife and delighted in seeing her hurt with the confession. We can’t know his motives in confessing unless (perhaps) he’s examined under polygraph.


I agree that all of this is just a theory and one that may not be welcome by OP. Only she knows if he is capable of that. I was trying to help make the distinction that you seemed to not be catching.

every single aspect of the situation is cruel but if the confession was done with the sole intention to inflict pain that goes way beyond.


----------



## QuietRiot

Not said:


> .
> 
> 
> I agree that all of this is just a theory and one that may not be welcome by OP. Only she knows if he is capable of that. I was trying to help make the distinction that you seemed to not be catching.
> 
> every single aspect of the situation is cruel but if the confession was done with the sole intention to inflict pain that goes way beyond.


Right, but he also doesn’t get much credit for his “generous” confession when he refused to disclose the whole truth, parceling it out in managed bits and pieces, conveniently knowing zero details about the woman, not getting dates right, blaming his wife. That just doesn’t sound like a remorseful man. So of course we are going to assume his whole reason for confessing is suspect as well.


----------



## Not

I think OP has shown that he does have a penchant for inflicting pain. A week of silence leading up to her surgery is vindictive and cruel. Not “normal” by any means.


----------



## oldshirt

QuietRiot said:


> Right, but he also doesn’t get much credit for his “generous” confession when he refused to disclose the whole truth, parceling it out in managed bits and pieces, conveniently knowing zero details about the woman, not getting dates right, blaming his wife. That just doesn’t sound like a remorseful man. So of course we are going to assume his whole reason for confessing is suspect as well.


Yeah there are a lot of things in this whole story that haven’t added up to a guy that was nice and normal and faithful for 27 years that one night got irritated his wife had a few drinks on a business trip so he hops in the car and heads up to the bar where he just happens to meet some chick that is DTF in the parking and then his conscience compelled him to confess out of guilt???? 

Yeah my calculator can’t quite add up all of those loose ends and balance out that equation.


----------



## TXTrini

Not said:


> I think OP has shown that he does have a penchant for inflicting pain. A week of silence leading up to her surgery is vindictive and cruel. Not “normal” by any means.


These things seem normal in the moment. You don't realize how numb you are to things like that until you are far removed from that situation. So, I don't think Woundid is making that connection just yet. 

@Woundidwife 
Feel free to correct me, Woundid. I get that is extremely unpleasant to consider these painful truths, but you won't be able to be at peace until you sort through it all. Maybe you should reconsider the weekly check-in until you feel more steady.


----------



## ConanHub

oldshirt said:


> Yeah there are a lot of things in this whole story that haven’t added up to a guy that was nice and normal and faithful for 27 years that one night got irritated his wife had a few drinks on a business trip so he hops in the car and heads up to the bar where he just happens to meet some chick that is DTF in the parking and then his conscience compelled him to confess out of guilt????
> 
> Yeah my calculator can’t quite add up all of those loose ends and balance out that equation.


Happens all the time...... In stories....


----------



## DosEquis

Well, we are a week and a half out from the two month anniversary of your first post. A lot has happened and more and more truths in the form of your marital history have come out which has been very helpful as to being able to advise you in an informed way.

It seems a way forward is beginning to galvenize in your mind as perspective is gained, also good.

You have a group here bent on picking apart your ch's story and I get that. We Betrayeds are an eminently suspicious and pessemistic bunch when it comes to cheaters and for good reason, we've been burned and hurt about as badly as you can be burned and hurt this side of death. Our bullshyte meters are highly tuned to gaslighting, minimizing, manipulating, lying, bullying and all the other [email protected] that betrayers pull to try and get the Betrayed Spouse just "to let it slide/get over it". This crew is trying to get you to see the light.

Thing is, I think you're already there in your mind. You are now trying to figure out the details of laying to rest a 27 year marriage. No small thing. No small thing at all.

I have long been wrangling with a concept that may help you gain even more perspective, specifically, in the "How could they...?" thoughts, and it has to do with differing definitions. See, we as Betrayeds and betraying spouses use the same words many times, i.e. "love", "faithfulness", "loyalty", "committment", "vows", but do not have the same definitions, or, tragically, the betraying spouse never had a clear cut definition of these bedrock concepts in the first place. This total lack of understanding/internalization is revealed at the worst time possible....during or just after an affair comes to light.

Guess what then? They say things that make the Betrayed Spouse want to run out into the night screaming and pulling their hair out. #1 on that list of idiotic/noncomputing statements, in my opinion, is, "*I didnt stop loving you/I still love you*," and all of its variants. *Say what*? GAH!!!!! With "love" like that, who needs hate, right?

But heres the thing, many times when you drill down on what they mean by "love", maybe for the first time ever, you find a very shallow understanding devoid of substance that makes for a lasting marriage marked by faithfulness, lotyalty and committment. Kind of like pouring cement with no rebar. Its there, but it will not stand the test of time. When this revelation is made clear to the Betrayed, wow, what an utter shock to the system! For years, the same words were used, but meant completely different things.

When you start off on that road together and you begin just a few degrees apart, the further down the road you go, the further apart you grow. This seems to be where you are now. Vastly different definitions of the most important concepts in any lasting, fulfilling marriage and have grown far, far apart, culminating in the ultimate betrayal of the Faithful Spouse, You.

All that rambling aside, I just want to say that resetting/recentering your life without him is ok. Actually, more than ok, its good, its needed, its healthy.

One thing's for sure now, the former status quo is clearly not a viable option.

Strength and fortitude to you in order to do what needs to be done.


----------



## Not

TXTrini said:


> These things seem normal in the moment. You don't realize how numb you are to things like that until you are far removed from that situation. So, I don't think Woundid is making that connection just yet.
> 
> @Woundidwife
> Feel free to correct me, Woundid. I get that is extremely unpleasant to consider these painful truths, but you won't be able to be at peace until you sort through it all. Maybe you should reconsider the weekly check-in until you feel more steady.


I think she sees a lot more than she's letting us in on. What she described earlier has been going on for the majority of her adult life. I could be wrong on this next part but if she's anything like I was, when you're with someone that long it's really easy to "accept your fate", to continue what you've always done and that is place everyone else before yourself. It's just easier and no one gets hurts. The kids are factored in, family, family friends. Everything and everyone but yourself. It's such a huge thing to even contemplate blowing up a family.

I do believe though that the above way of thinking is part of the conditioning that occurs when your with someone who's mentally and/or emotionally abusive. You take on responsibility for literally everything, especially the emotional well being of those you love.

For me, my wake up call to act was a death. For WW, I think it's this affair. She's had plenty of reason to leave and now this.


----------



## Megaforce

Not said:


> I had a feeling. You were sprinkling little hints here and there all throughout the thread. I won't comment further on how I think the past almost three decades have been for you, you've lived it and you're way past needing to be told what to do about it. It's been on your mind for decades. What I can comment on is life after getting out.
> 
> I was married for just under 26 years in very similar circumstances, sans the cheating. If your anything like I was at the end you're pretty beat down and just a shell of what you could be. It took the death of a very young loved one to wake me up. I was throwing away what time I do have left.
> 
> At the end during a talk about the splitting of assets the conversation turned serious one day as he asked a question. He wanted to know, why now? I described my current state which included feeling like outside of the kids I felt I had no reason to live. I have never been so low in my life. He then launched into how the divorce was so damaging for him and how I had ruined his plans for retiring early. That's when it hit me fully, he had never cared, ever. I mean, I knew on one level he was that selfish but to fully comprehend what that actually meant for the first time in 25 years? All those years had been something I had imagined or something I was never fully aware of the reality of. All of my memories? I had made excuses for his behavior so thoroughly and for so long that I no longer felt like I could trust myself with anything.
> 
> I’ve been out for five years now. Life has been both scary and exhilarating. Not having to worry about what his mood is going to be when he gets home from work, not having to deal with the demeaning comments to the kids and I, not having to watch my every move and carefully weigh every response thoroughly before I speak? Absolutely liberating and wonderful.
> 
> But it’s also very scary because I had never been on my own before. There is so much I don’t know how to do and will need help with along the way, which will be expensive but the trade off has been more than worth it. Hiring a plumber sounds fantastic versus what it would’ve been like to deal with that situation with him lol! Just no!
> 
> If you do decide to leave stick with the therapy. Due to your circumstances you don’t really know who you are. Right now you are WW + 27 years with him. That equals someone who has basically made herself small enough to keep him happy, or at least try too. You’ll be unearthing the authentic you. For me, I don’t feel super fantastically special or anything but I do feel freaking good! Not having to adjust my behavior to keep the peace and to authentically be who I am and speak my mind freely and live without constant judgment? It’s like getting out of prison.
> 
> And you will be hearing some labels getting tossed around in regards to his behavior which is a normal response to your story. His behavior will fit too. But in the end regardless of the labels he is still the person you’ve always known and the labels won’t change anything or shed any new light. He is still what he always has been. In regards to the labels I found that it was a distraction and took my focus off my mission. So I didn’t spend much time on that because getting out was the point.
> 
> The anger. Stay in therapy. I’m sure it’s not the same for everyone but with me and in my attempts to self correct my thinking and attitudes I had developed over the years with him I wound up self sabotaging and swung back to far the other way. You’ll need to find your balance and you’ll need a sounding board but you sound like you have family and friends to also assist with that and in that you are very fortunate.
> 
> I’m sorry WW. You have a long road ahead of you and you’re already tired. Like everyone is saying, take your time. This is your life and you can do as you please, whatever that is.


I bet many of us can relate to being in a relationship similar to this. I have seen research into infidelity lead many folks to start educating themselves on personality disorders. The two are so intertwined. Infidelity is an incredibly abusive, selfish act and the lack of empathy required is characteristic of disorder.
I agree having a label or diagnosis is not really important although it does provide some support for what one wonders about.
By the end, after yearsxwith someone like this, one has, in large part, become a shell of him/ herself, always on guard, tiptoeing around the person.
And, things that we convinced ourselves were sort of normal, with time and distance are now seen for the egregious weirdness they really always were.
Belittling someone, let alone doing it in front of kids, is right up there, many standard deviations from what a normal person would do.
I am relieved to be out. No more being doused with freezing water when showering. No more verbal attacks or long term silent treatments.


----------



## Megaforce

TXTrini said:


> These things seem normal in the moment. You don't realize how numb you are to things like that until you are far removed from that situation. So, I don't think Woundid is making that connection just yet.
> 
> @Woundidwife
> Feel free to correct me, Woundid. I get that is extremely unpleasant to consider these painful truths, but you won't be able to be at peace until you sort through it all. Maybe you should reconsider the weekly check-in until you feel more steady.


One good thing about having egregious acts like these is that once out, harkening back to them can dispel the inevitable doubts one has about having cut the chord.
I have a few, plus some really horrible verbal abuse that I revisit on occasion that confirm I made the right decision in getting out. As I look back on them, I am somewhat incredulous that Inwas ever able to have rationalized them.


----------



## TXTrini

Megaforce said:


> One good thing about having egregious acts like these is that once out, harkening back to them can dispel the inevitable doubts one has about having cut the chord.
> I have a few, plus some really horrible verbal abuse that I revisit on occasion that confirm I made the right decision in getting out. As I look back on them, I am somewhat incredulous that Inwas ever able to have rationalized them.


I inherently knew they weren't good and there's more I could say, but never have. I'm ashamed I tolerated those behaviors in the first place, much less made excuses for him to keep the peace. One of my close friends told me my story sounded like a Lifetime movie and she was horrified for me and couldn't believe I was so blasé relating it.

Sometimes it's not just about blowing up a family, in my case there were no children. It was a combination of things... the sunken cost fallacy, stubbornness, and competitiveness. I had to take a good look at what was chaining me, what I was getting out of it, and what these things meant for my future. It takes time, especially when you know any decision going forward really is on you now.


----------



## Megaforce

TXTrini said:


> I inherently knew they weren't good and there's more I could say, but never have. I'm ashamed I tolerated those behaviors in the first place, much less made excuses for him to keep the peace. One of my close friends told me my story sounded like a Lifetime movie and she was horrified for me and couldn't believe I was so blasé relating it.
> 
> Sometimes it's not just about blowing up a family, in my case there were no children. It was a combination of things... the sunken cost fallacy, stubbornness, and competitiveness. I had to take a good look at what was chaining me, what I was getting out of it, and what these things meant for my future. It takes time, especially when you know any decision going forward really is on you now.


Typically, one is so depleted and has become a shell of him/ herself from the abuse, that it is very difficult to see things clearly. The abuse is constant. Not always egregious. Lots of what is called " ambient abuse" ( eye rolling, baleful stares, sarcasm, mean jokes where one is accused of a lack of a sense of humor, silent treatments etc.). And, they seem to thrive on it, have boundless energy for doing it out long term.
For me, and some other guys I talked to about this, we were kind of grateful for the discovery of the cheating. It awakened us to the abuse and got us out.
When I look back at what was going on, I cannot believe I stayed so long. But, the Frog in boiling water phenomenon had happened. Plus, there were kids to consider.


----------



## Woundidwife

TXTrini said:


> Maybe that's the problem. How can you try to reconcile when you're still processing the shock and pain of his actions? Cut yourself some slack and give yourself as much time as you need to feel more even keeled. Why are you in such a hurry? It's his mess; he has to clean up his **** while h waits for you to make sense of your world and determine what's best for you.
> 
> Don't let him put any pressure whatsoever on you; it's not his prerogative anymore.


You are absolutely right. Thank you.


----------



## Woundidwife

Megaforce said:


> This guy sounds abusive. Have you considered researching the Cluster B personality disorders?


No, I hadn’t. Will look into that. Thank you.


----------



## Woundidwife

Megaforce said:


> Your husband is not owning ****. And he is insulting you by expecting you to believe the absolute baloney he has told you.
> You may never get the truth.
> The way you describe him: this is a guy who confessed due to guilt? What crap. Somebody was going to out him.
> 
> You write well, are articulate etc. Most people marry within their own intellect range, so I presume your husband is no dummy. Yet he expects you to buy his story. How insulting. How does he relate this crap with a straight face?
> He must be seriously unbalanced to get so pissed at the suspicion of you drinking that he would retaliate by cheating. See, unless he is completely psycho, this is not why he cheated. It has nothing to do with you drinking.
> 
> It was preplanned with someone he knows and something other than guilt caused him to inform you.
> His story does not make sense.


A revelation determined that it happened on the day BEFORE he thought I had been drinking, so THAT excuse I had allowed was unrelated and moot.

Also, as far as “book smarts” or education, we are unmatched. I have a bachelors, he did manage to graduate high school with my help. His common sense beats mine by a mile or two. (Unfortunately he makes almost double what I do WITHOUT having completed college.). Our finances together did pay for those years of college, however.


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> You are absolutely right. Thank you.


These are the times I hate being right about anything. None of us take any pleasure whatsoever in any of this. If we can spare you some time and unwarranted pain by making you think and helping you to decipher fact from fiction, it's worth it. Your wellbeing is our (my) only concern. 

How are you doing today? I was concerned at not hearing from you this weekend.


----------



## snowbum

Agreed this isnt pleasure or spite. Remember not only did he cheat, he lied about why he cheated. The truth is he wanted to.


----------



## Woundidwife

oldshirt said:


> @Woundidwife , could you indulge me for just a moment and answer a couple questions I have as slip into my Hannibal Lector headspace?
> 
> What time did you get off the phone with him the night he supposedly did this?
> 
> And how far away from your house is the bar he met this chick?
> 
> Please Excuse me if you have stated this in other posts but I am a bit too pressed for time to go back through 30 pages.


I spoke to him around 5:30/6:00 pm. He told me he wasn’t dressed for getting lottery tickets (Megaball was up) and that I should leave my work event to find a 7/11 to get some, which I did.) I was in bed and asleep at 10:23pm when he texted me “goodnight” and that he loved me. That woke me. I texted back that I found lottery tickets and that I loved him. He answered along the same lines at 10:26. This is the time he says he left. Immediately after that.

His explanation for confession is that he was so guilty. Every time I woke in the night, he was awake and not sleeping during the month between the event and the confession. (He has always belittled and scolded others for cheating! He also hates liars—everything he had become.)
The bar is about 20 minutes from our home. (All of them are.)

ETA: He was bored. Our youngest grown child (college student) had texted around 9:30 to let him know that he would be home alone as our child would be staying with a SO that night. (At bedtime…or at least AN HOUR AFTER we were normally in bed and LONG AFTER we would have left any other place TO GO HOME. That is why he says he went to the bar. He wanted to “socialize”. He was BORED! Found himself some quality entertainment, that’s for sure. (SARCASM and rage? Or maybe “Meh”? Not sure. Working on the “zen” version of me.)


----------



## Woundidwife

oldshirt said:


> @Woundidwife a couple more questions.
> 
> Has he ever done something vengeful and hurtful in anger to anyone in the past? Things like breaking or throwing away any of the kid's toys if they were annoying him with it? Punishing the kids way out of proportion to their offence with intentionally hurtful punishment like depriving them of food for an extensive period of time or grounding them over a fun family outing that everyone was looking forward to? Has he ever done anything intentionally hurtful to you out of anger or has ever done something to another friend or family member if they have crossed him? Has he ever hurt or given away a family pet or relinquished them to the animal shelter while you and the kids were crying in the car?
> 
> You say he has a temper and anger issues, but has he ever done something hurtful to someone that has crossed him?
> 
> And one more question about the night he went to the bar,, what night of the week was it and was he scheduled to work the next morning?
> 
> Is it normal or out of character for him to go to a bar late at night when he has to work the next day?


Not normal. It was a Tuesday. He did have to work the next day, but with a 2 hour late start.


----------



## Woundidwife

Not said:


> Not having to adjust my behavior to keep the peace and to authentically be who I am and speak my mind freely and live without constant judgment? It’s like getting out of prison.


NOT,

YOU UNDERSTAND!!!

THIS has been my life and separation has been so, SO PEACEFUL.


----------



## Woundidwife

oldshirt said:


> @Woundidwife a couple more questions.
> 
> Has he ever done something vengeful and hurtful in anger to anyone in the past? Things like breaking or throwing away any of the kid's toys if they were annoying him with it? Punishing the kids way out of proportion to their offence with intentionally hurtful punishment like depriving them of food for an extensive period of time or grounding them over a fun family outing that everyone was looking forward to? Has he ever done anything intentionally hurtful to you out of anger or has ever done something to another friend or family member if they have crossed him? Has he ever hurt or given away a family pet or relinquished them to the animal shelter while you and the kids were crying in the car?
> 
> You say he has a temper and anger issues, but has he ever done something hurtful to someone that has crossed him?
> 
> And one more question about the night he went to the bar,, what night of the week was it and was he scheduled to work the next morning?
> 
> Is it normal or out of character for him to go to a bar late at night when he has to work the next day?


Yes, he has. Not your exact examples, but yes.


----------



## Woundidwife

TXTrini said:


> These are the times I hate being right about anything. None of us take any pleasure whatsoever in any of this. If we can spare you some time and unwarranted pain by making you think and helping you to decipher fact from fiction, it's worth it. Your wellbeing is our (my) only concern.
> 
> How are you doing today? I was concerned at not hearing from you this weekend.


My weekend was great. I enjoyed my time with my girlfriend. I got to meet her grown children and we relaxed together—got pedicures, did our own manicures while drinking wine (don’t recommend for light-weights like me lol). Also did some shopping. It was a great time!


----------



## Woundidwife

snowbum said:


> Agreed this isnt pleasure or spite. Remember not only did he cheat, he lied about why he cheated. The truth is he wanted to.


Exactly. Our last conversation before separation was me trying to get him to admit this. He still can’t do it without saying “obviously, I must have….”
Clearly he wanted it. No one can force someone to make all of the horrible decisions HE MADE.


----------



## Affaircare

Woundidwife said:


> Not normal. It was a Tuesday. He did have to work the next day, but with a 2 hour late start.


So on a regular old Tuesday, when there was nothing unusual including the fact that you weren't "having drinks" and he wasn't mad at you about that...

... on a night when he JUST spoke to you about powerball and normal topics and said goodnight

... on a night when he had to go to work the next day--yes a little later but again not particularly out-of-the-ordinary

On a night like that, for no apparent reason, he just decided to drive down to the bar and be unfaithful? And "it just happened"...on a Tuesday. 


I'm not buying what he's selling. If a person was a normal person with character, they might conceivably go to a bar for a beer after saying goodnight to the wifey. I could see that. But then along would come the Spider, and the normal person with character would be all clumsy and flustered about someone coming onto them so strong! I mean, you don't just go from "faithful and happily married" to "It's Tuesday--I think committing adultery would be okay." There has GOT TO BE something in between...like flirting with someone else, sexting on dating sites, getting ego-kibbles from co-workers, emailing this lady and meeting up...

I'm telling you, @Woundidwife -- I've been on this site for what? Twelve years now? I've heard a LOT of affair stories, and it is very rare to not have some kind of build up. Even people who have a ONS build up their courage by crossing-the-line over and over again or flirting with fire. 

I'm not buying what he's selling.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Woundidwife said:


> He claims that he “didn’t know that purchasing drinks for this woman meant that he wanted to sleep with her”. He also “didn’t realize” that she was interested in sex until he said he was leaving and she asked if he wanted to go somewhere. He asked what she meant (yeah right!) and she had already been rubbing his inner thigh, but now touched his junk and told him he knew what she meant.





Woundidwife said:


> *His common sense beats mine by a mile or two.*


Your mileage may vary.
Either he doesn't have a lick of common sense or he's lying. Me thinks the latter.


----------



## Openminded

His story is just so random. I’ve read many of them and it just doesn’t track. It would have made more sense if he had gone with the story that he was mad at you. Instead it’s depression and suddenly, out of the blue, he reversed course (couldn’t get lottery tickets that late but could go to a bar) and, boom, unplanned sex with a stranger. No way I believe he didn’t leave home that night with exactly what ended up happening in mind.


----------



## Woundidwife

Affaircare said:


> So on a regular old Tuesday, when there was nothing unusual including the fact that you weren't "having drinks" and he wasn't mad at you about that...
> 
> ... on a night when he JUST spoke to you about powerball and normal topics and said goodnight
> 
> ... on a night when he had to go to work the next day--yes a little later but again not particularly out-of-the-ordinary
> 
> On a night like that, for no apparent reason, he just decided to drive down to the bar and be unfaithful? And "it just happened"...on a Tuesday.
> 
> 
> I'm not buying what he's selling. If a person was a normal person with character, they might conceivably go to a bar for a beer after saying goodnight to the wifey. I could see that. But then along would come the Spider, and the normal person with character would be all clumsy and flustered about someone coming onto them so strong! I mean, you don't just go from "faithful and happily married" to "It's Tuesday--I think committing adultery would be okay." There has GOT TO BE something in between...like flirting with someone else, sexting on dating sites, getting ego-kibbles from co-workers, emailing this lady and meeting up...
> 
> I'm telling you, @Woundidwife -- I've been on this site for what? Twelve years now? I've heard a LOT of affair stories, and it is very rare to not have some kind of build up. Even people who have a ONS build up their courage by crossing-the-line over and over again or flirting with fire.
> 
> I'm not buying what he's selling.


I know. I hear you. I kept telling myself (and him) that this HAD to have been intentional. There is almost no way in the world that all the stars would align for this story to have unfolded the way he tells it, but as far as I knew, he had never lied to me before….to the point of being unkind. No white lies or cushioned truths. (Does this dress make me look fat? Yes. Try another one.)


----------



## Openminded

It benefits him to lie to you now.


----------



## Woundidwife

I had to do my 3 month STD/STI testing this week…put me in a pretty foul mood, of course. On the bright side, though, I was prescribed a very mild anti/anxiety, anti-depression, sleep medication and last night was the first time I have felt like I actually slept since August 24th. Woke up truly feeling rested. Gonna get some more again tonight. 😊

Also, I have IC tomorrow.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Woundidwife said:


> No, you are absolutely correct. I had asked for him to see someone for anger management several times, for many, many years. I finally gave up and I guess I just accepted my lot in life. I didn’t show my emotions because that always ended in having to deal with his. It was just more work than necessary and was horribly draining. I don’t have extra energy to deal with a grown man’s shyte. You know? We were raising two children. We were not necessarily a unified team, however. He was a strict disciplinarian, while I tried to find a balance, but err on the side of nurturing, loving, and appreciating our kids for who THEY were—not trying to mold them into what I or my CH (or anyone else) wanted them to be. Those differing perspectives on parenting was also an issue. Our children are grown now, but there was a HUGE disagreement not long ago (about 3 years now) with one of them, and both children and I confronted him about his anger then. For a moment, I really thought THAT was going to be the catalyst to fix him, but it wasn’t. He only became more angry and decided that I was a much worse mother than he originally thought. (Because they loved me unconditionally, and loved him too, but mostly feared him. They had disrespected me during their teen years, however, because he had belittled me so many times in front of them that they knew who was REALLY in charge and that I didn’t make the rules and had to answer to him too. Of course, this was all my fault, though, and the reason why I was a bad mother. I tried, but I couldn’t discipline them…they didn’t listen to me anymore.) The aftermath of that blow-up was a terrible, terrible time for me. It was right before I had a surgery and he refused to talk to me for the entire week prior. I was scared and crying and completely ignored (not comforted) during pre-op. The only positive that came out of that blow up was that he DID FINALLY lighten up on our younger child—who had always actively opposed Dad’s angry mannerisms.
> 
> Six months from that surgery with no real or massively noticeable improvements towards me, I decided to leave him. When I shared this information with one of the grown children, my dear sweet newlyweded child said, “You go through these things, Mom, but in the end you and Dad really love each other.” So I stayed. Fast forward to this spring when he had a near death experience. I thought THAT would open his eyes to becoming a better, more empathetic person. Instead he felt like none of us “really cared that he almost died”. Then, I planned a bunch (6?) of awesome mini vacations for us throughout the entire summer. I thought they were wonderful and that we were closer than we had been in years. Between the last two mini vacations was when he f***ed a skank, so obviously they weren’t as great or soul-bonding as I thought. Then, he confessed at the crack of dawn on one of the most high pressure days of my job. That part wasn’t anger—just more selfishness.
> 
> I hold all the anger now and I have enough for both of us.


Your descriptions don't leave much reason to fight to stay with him. It sounds like he has been generally treating you very poorly for a long time and it just finally escalated to infidelity. He also has a very solid track record that shows he doesn't ever change his behavior patterns, so I wouldn't expect otherwise now. I apologize if you already answered this, but are you kids and other family members aware of his infidelity?

The pre-op thing just make me angry, lol. I've gone through that with my wife and I can't imagine not supporting her and being there for her every second leading up to something like that, even if considered to be minor. Your spouse is supposed to be there for you in tough and scary times and he straight up let you down.


----------



## Megaforce

BigDaddyNY said:


> Your descriptions don't leave much reason to fight to stay with him. It sounds like he has been generally treating you very poorly for a long time and it just finally escalated to infidelity. He also has a very solid track record that shows he doesn't ever change his behavior patterns, so I wouldn't expect otherwise now. I apologize if you already answered this, but are you kids and other family members aware of his infidelity?
> 
> The pre-op thing just make me angry, lol. I've gone through that with my wife and I can't imagine not supporting her and being there for her every second leading up to something like that, even if considered to be minor. Your spouse is supposed to be there for you in tough and scary times and he straight up let you down.


Oh, yeah, the failure to support one during a medical procedure. I had hernia surgery, a retinal repair, then cataract surgery. My XW did not lift a finger. I had to enlist a friend to drive me from the hospital. 
See, this is a true sign of lack of empathy, as is the belittling. Lack of empathy is the hallmark of a narcissist.


----------



## Woundidwife

Megaforce said:


> Oh, yeah, the failure to support one during a medical procedure. I had hernia surgery, a retinal repair, then cataract surgery. My XW did not lift a finger. I had to enlist a friend to drive me from the hospital.
> See, this is a true sign of lack of empathy, as is the belittling. Lack of empathy is the hallmark of a narcissist.


Right. There was also A LOT of gaslighting in our everyday lives. I was always wrong. Everything I did was wrong. I started to research his behaviors after that surgery and DO BELIEVE he IS a narcissist. I brought this up a few times. Obviously, that didn’t go very well. Seems to fit though. Will check out the cluster B stuff.


----------



## Megaforce

I knew almost nothing about Cluster B stuff until my divorce attorney, in hearing about my XW's behaviors steered me toward researching. I was so bewildered by her behaviors and her lack of empathy and a conscience. For a long time, as is common when one is in a relationship with a narcissist, I thought I was losing my mind, or, at least, causing the problems. The abuse had been ramped up so gradually over the years that I had lost all perspective.
Now, after getting out, reading up on personality disorders and being in therapy, Incan see it so clearly.
My friends are shocked that I was so blind to things. 
What, you mean it is abnormal to be awakened from a sound sleep to have your wife describe the body of the guy she was with that night?
You mean getting doused with a old water multiple time while showering with soap on one's s face and eyes closed is not just an innocent practical joke?
Playing what I termed " attack scrabble" where your wife spells out a word and then feigns she is trying to convince you it is a real word by using it pejoratively in a sentence insulting you, is not just gentle ribbing?
I could go on, there are too many to list and I suspect with time and distance you will recall more and more weird ,abusive. things, too.
The reason I was so insistent that your husband's story made no sense is that I could see that you must have been conditioned, as I was, to doubt your perceptions.
My friends were incredulous when I described what I had experienced. I ran this stuff by my female friends, thinking they might be less horrified as this was a woman doing these things to a man. On the contrary, they were the most adamant that she was a narcissist abuser.
One thing that was recommended to me, when I had doubts as to whether I was the disordered on causing all this, was to look at how my XW close friends and family viewed me. Not casual acquaintances, as abusers are adept at abusing behind closed doors with no witnesses. But, with long term close relationships, where, despite efforts to mask/ hide abuse, it would be very unlikely it went unnoticed. 
I am well liked and thought of by my friends, family and long time coworkers. 
So, if you have doubts about yourself, examine how these folks view you.
Also, probably unbeknownst to you, more people are aware of your husband's proclivities than you may realize. Many times these outside observers have kept their mouths shut over the years for fear of interfering. In my case, quite a few came forward after the infidelity was outed, with their observations. 
I bet your kids have seen his stuff.


----------



## TXTrini

Megaforce said:


> Oh, yeah, the failure to support one during a medical procedure. I had hernia surgery, a retinal repair, then cataract surgery. My XW did not lift a finger. I had to enlist a friend to drive me from the hospital.
> See, this is a true sign of lack of empathy, as is the belittling. Lack of empathy is the hallmark of a narcissist.


Yes it sucks. I took a Uber.


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> Right. There was also A LOT of gaslighting in our every day lives. I was always wrong. Everything I did was wrong. I started to research his behaviors after that surgery and DO BELIEVE he IS a narcissist. I brought this up a few times. Obviously, that didn’t go very well. Seems to fit though. Will check out the cluster B stuff.


Caution.

Be careful not to go down a rabbit hole researching what will ultimately not help you. I get that you're looking for explanations, I started off that way too before I finally accepted reality. However, that's a good way to waste time and get you nowhere.


----------



## Not

I just want to toss in that if the reason for looking into the labels is so that maybe he'll agree to get help, the answer to that will most likely be a resounding NO. There's nothing wrong with him. That's part of what kept me stuck for so long. I kept telling myself "what if ?".


----------



## Megaforce

I agree. There is, virtually, no hope of a personality disordered person changing. I researched because I questioned my own perceptions. Hearing the stories from others and,also, getting their perspective on the behaviors helped reassure me that I was not the cause of these abusive behaviors and that they were, in fact, abusive. 
I would, sometimes, hear from someone that felt I was attempting to label my XW in order to feel justified in what I thought about her and the cheating and that I might be searching for confirmation bias. 
My nature is to try to understand things. I can be like a dog with a bone until I am satisfied. That is just me. This quality served me well in my profession. 
For many, it is not neccesarily to try to get a handle on what they dealt with. The cheating is enough.


----------



## Woundidwife

Megaforce said:


> I agree. There is, virtually, no hope of a personality disordered person changing. I researched because I questioned my own perceptions. Hearing the stories from others and,also, getting their perspective on the behaviors helped reassure me that I was not the cause of these abusive behaviors and that they were, in fact, abusive.
> I would, sometimes, hear from someone that felt I was attempting to label my XW in order to feel justified in what I thought about her and the cheating and that I might be searching for confirmation bias.
> My nature is to try to understand things. I can be like a dog with a bone until I am satisfied. That is just me. This quality served me well in my profession.
> For many, it is not neccesarily to try to get a handle on what they dealt with. The cheating is enough.


I understand. I didn’t specifically research “cluster b”, but just typed in a list of characteristics…narcissism is what aligned most closely. I will read some on it, but like TXTrini and Not have said, I do not need to devote much time to this activity as I do not think it will benefit me (or him) much. He is in counseling and that is the job of the counselor and him to “fix”.


----------



## Not

Megaforce said:


> I agree. There is, virtually, no hope of a personality disordered person changing. I researched because I questioned my own perceptions. Hearing the stories from others and,also, getting their perspective on the behaviors helped reassure me that I was not the cause of these abusive behaviors and that they were, in fact, abusive.
> I would, sometimes, hear from someone that felt I was attempting to label my XW in order to feel justified in what I thought about her and the cheating and that I might be searching for confirmation bias.
> My nature is to try to understand things. I can be like a dog with a bone until I am satisfied. That is just me. This quality served me well in my profession.
> For many, it is not neccesarily to try to get a handle on what they dealt with. The cheating is enough.



Me too. Some might see it as overthinking but I'm just very stubborn that way. I have to understand something as fully as I'm able.

Another aspect of all of this that makes it all so hard is that we can also see the good in them because they're not 100% horrible. There is good in there and it's real but it's buried so deeply under the gunk there's no hope of salvaging anything but knowing that doesn't make it any easier.


----------



## Megaforce

Not said:


> Me too. Some might see it as overthinking but I'm just very stubborn that way. I have to understand something as fully as I'm able.
> 
> Another aspect of all of this that makes it all so hard is that we can also see the good in them because they're not 100% horrible. There is good in there and it's real but it's buried so deeply under the gunk there's no hope of salvaging anything but knowing that doesn't make it any easier.


That " good" is what makes it so confusing. I compare it to that experiment where one group of mice was consistently given electric shocks when attempting to get a treat. Another group was allowed to retrieve the treat with the shocks being administered randomly, intermittently . Sometimes, no shock and reward was obtained. Other times, randomly they were shocked.
You know how this turned out.


----------



## Cynthia

TXTrini said:


> Caution.
> 
> Be careful not to go down a rabbit hole researching what will ultimately not help you. I get that you're looking for explanations, I started off that way too before I finally accepted reality. However, that's a good way to waste time and get you nowhere.


If taken too far. However, knowing that he will never change can be a big determining factor in what to do. That can cut short the decision making timeline and lead to quicker healing.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## *Deidre*

I think it’s probably difficult because you have spent so many years with this man, that you think your future must remain on hold based on if he can change or not. Living like that, it may feel daunting to actually believe that you have the power to decide what is best for you.


----------



## DosEquis

WW you've recieved a ton of great tactical input about how to deal with this in the immediate and youve been more and more forthcoming about some the toxic layers of your marriage over the years which has been helpful and, I hope, therapeutic for you. Its your healing that matters.

I feel like youve been in a nightmarish game of "how low can you go" limbo over the years and with his infidelity, the bar has been set so low, that youre not able or willing to stoop further, cross over, and keep going. This would be completely understandable. Youve now been mired in the fallout of his adultery and are refusing to bend yourself into a pretzel trying to "figure him out". *I applaud your, "not my monkey, not my circus," stance.*

Id like to make a suggestion. During this seperation, allow yourself the liberty to lift up your eyes from the muck and mire of his making and dream again. Think back to when you were in the early stages of your relationship. What were your highest ideals as to marriage? What goals ad dreams did you have then? Then think about your future, if those ideals existed, where would you like to be? What do you want your life to look like as it pertains to your marital relationship (with him or someone else)?

The reason I bring this up is that when you're in the middle of this kind of trauma, wrangling with nasty issues you *never ever* dreamed youd have to deal with, your highest hopes and ambitions for marriage can seem unattainable. Im here to tell you that is not true.

I remember when I was in the thick of my own ****storm of dealing with my first wifes infidelity. I wrested and wrangled with all of it....for years. I felt my hopes and dreams for my marriage, my supposed safe place/refuge from the world, got choked and crushed to the point that I didnt even think about them anymore. If I did, it was with a cynical chuckle, like, "what an idiot to allow yourself to dream of these things." What a sad way to live.

After much therapy, I started reflecting on my original marital goals and ambitions and how far short of that we'd fallen. When I met my 2nd wife, little by little, I dared to dream again. We were both survivors of betrayal and we certainly did our due diligence as to ascertaining authenticity and integrity as our relationship grew. It wasnt our first rodeo and were were very forthcoming with one another. Some said we put each other through the wringer, but we both knew that it was a necessary step in order to move forward. Once comfortable, we started to dream again of what could be. I am happy to say that, years later, many of those goals, dreams and ambitions that we've worked hard to attain have come to be. Do we have farther to go? Undoubtedly, but, we've come so very very far and we are extremely happy together.

Dare to dream WW. Journal your hopes and ideals, then make an assessment as to whether you can get close (enough) with him, or possibly without him?

Why tell you all of this? Well, when you are in the middle of dealing with the dung pile called infidelity, its so hard to think of highest hopes and dreams. In fact, one Betrayed called it her "dream killer". My response? If we dont have high goals, dreams, hopes and ambitions, why do it at all? My mantra is, "Aim for the moon and if you hit the star below, you are still on higher ground."

WW, I hope you will be able to dream again and move forward toward thise dreams.

Have a good weekend.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> WW you've recieved a ton of great tactical input about how to deal with this in the immediate and youve been more and more forthcoming about some the toxic layers of your marriage over the years which has been helpful and, I hope, therapeutic for you. Its your healing that matters.
> 
> I feel like youve been in a nightmarish game of "how low can you go" limbo over the years and with his infidelity, the bar has been set so low, that youre not able or willing to stoop further, cross over, and keep going. This would be completely understandable. Youve now been mired in the fallout of his adultery and are refusing to bend yourself into a pretzel trying to "figure him out". *I applaud your, "not my monkey, not my circus," stance.*
> 
> Id like to make a suggestion. During this seperation, allow yourself the liberty to lift up your eyes from the muck and mire of his making and dream again. Think back to when you were in the early stages of your relationship. What were your highest ideals as to marriage? What goals ad dreams did you have then? Then think about your future, if those ideals existed, where would you like to be? What do you want your life to look like as it pertains to your marital relationship (with him or someone else)?
> 
> The reason I bring this up is that when you're in the middle of this kind of trauma, wrangling with nasty issues you *never ever* dreamed youd have to deal with, your highest hopes and ambitions for marriage can seem unattainable. Im here to tell you that is not true.
> 
> I remember when I was in the thick of my own ****storm of dealing with my first wifes infidelity. I wrested and wrangled with all of it....for years. I felt my hopes and dreams for my marriage, my supposed safe place/refuge from the world, got choked and crushed to the point that I didnt even think about them anymore. If I did, it was with a cynical chuckle, like, "what an idiot to allow yourself to dream of these things." What a sad way to live.
> 
> After much therapy, I started reflecting on my original marital goals and ambitions and how far short of that we'd fallen. When I met my 2nd wife, little by little, I dared to dream again. We were both survivors of betrayal and we certainly did our due diligence as to ascertaining authenticity and integrity as our relationship grew. It wasnt our first rodeo and were were very forthcoming with one another. Some said we put each other through the wringer, but we both knew that it was a necessary step in order to move forward. Once comfortable, we started to dream again of what could be. I am happy to say that, years later, many of those goals, dreams and ambitions that we've worked hard to attain have come to be. Do we have farther to go? Undoubtedly, but, we've come so very very far and we are extremely happy together.
> 
> Dare to dream WW. Journal your hopes and ideals, then make an assessment as to whether you can get close (enough) with him, or possibly without him?
> 
> Why tell you all of this? Well, when you are in the middle of dealing with the dung pile called infidelity, its so hard to think of highest hopes and dreams. In fact, one Betrayed called it her "dream killer". My response? If we dont have high goals, dreams, hopes and ambitions, why do it at all? My mantra is, "Aim for the moon and if you hit the star below, you are still on higher ground."
> 
> WW, I hope you will be able to dream again and move forward toward thise dreams.
> 
> Have a good werkend.


Thank you so much. You have been my champion all along here. I really appreciate your support and empathy at every step of my recovery. You have clearly been through some sh*t and KNOW almost exactly what I am feeling and thinking every step of the way. 

Thank you for these words. I know your posts take time and are well thought out. I really appreciate you helping me. 

You are absolutely correct. I AM in a huge pile of dung, but I am actively trying to dig myself back to the surface. 

I was just watching some self-help videos this morning (off work for the holiday today) on breaking free of codependency. I do think that with each passing day I AM MAKING PROGRESS. 

Baby steps…. Breathing exercises…. I am getting there.

I hope you have a good weekend too, with a wife who appreciates you, cares for you, and makes you happy.


----------



## Woundidwife

Good news: my 3 month STD/STI testing has all come back negative. 👍 Now for the 6 month ones…. Can I be done after that or do I still need to worry about HIV?


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> Good news: my 3 month STD/STI testing has all come back negative. 👍 Now for the 6 month ones…. Can I be done after that or do I still need to worry about HIV?


I was told after 6 months you are in the clear if you have negative tests by that point. 🙂


----------



## Woundidwife

Okay. So 3 months of worrying left.


----------



## snowbum

Do you see each other? How long is the separation?


----------



## Woundidwife

snowbum said:


> Do you see each other? How long is the separation?


Separation is not set yet—however much time I need.

We did see each other (specific circumstance) one day this week. Sadly, we had to put our dog down, and met at the vet’s office, but was not part of the plan and changes nothing in the separation


----------



## Divinely Favored

Woundidwife said:


> Good points. Much appreciated.
> 
> Today was another tough one. Does does any of this ever get less painful to deal with?


A wound is less painful after time when it scares over, but you will always remember what caused the scar and remember the pain it caused.

He should have said something or divorced first.

My wife's was always in 1st place in my life(as it should be). After we had kids, I was moved to 4th, kids were moved to 1st, as she was trying to be supermom and pouring all of herself into them. 
2
Behind them remained work, them the house(she was a stickler about the house, had to be exactly right).
I was moved to back of line.

I felt forgotten and abandoned by my wife, what made it most difficult, I am one who feels loved by physical intimacy. Sex dropped to 3x month and it was damaging the emotional connection I felt to my wife. 

What ever she complained about or what ever I could see she needed help with in the house, I did. I was doing over 1/2 the house work and all of the yard work. But it still did not make room for time for us. Just gave her time to relax or do another project she wanted to do.


It got to the point I was at the end of my rope and was seriously contemplating divorce, I was feeling so alone. I was finding other women attractive and I did not like that, I wanted my wife, who was always concerned with other things. But I had moral standards that would not have allowed me to commit adultery.

She could tell there was something seriously wrong(I swear that woman can read my mind) and we finally communicated and she finally understood. She had preconceived ideas about men and sex, from her serial cheating POS ex hubby) and she was applying those to me.

She changed and I quit holding in things when she did something that made me angry. I started speaking my mind. We were again both each other's priority and the kids were 2nd, as it should be in a healthy moral relationship. His moral terpitude allowed him to cheat, plain and simple.


----------



## Woundidwife

Divinely Favored said:


> A wound is less painful after time when it scares over, but you will always remember what caused the scar and remember the pain it caused.
> 
> He should have said something or divorced first.
> 
> My wife's was always in 1st place in my life(as it should be). After we had kids, I was moved to 4th, kids were moved to 1st, as she was trying to be supermom and pouring all of herself into them.
> 2
> Behind them remained work, them the house(she was a stickler about the house, had to be exactly right).
> I was moved to back of line.
> 
> I felt forgotten and abandoned by my wife, what made it most difficult, I am one who feels loved by physical intimacy. Sex dropped to 3x month and it was damaging the emotional connection I felt to my wife.
> 
> What ever she complained about or what ever I could see she needed help with in the house, I did. I was doing over 1/2 the house work and all of the yard work. But it still did not make room for time for us. Just gave her time to relax or do another project she wanted to do.
> 
> 
> It got to the point I was at the end of my rope and was seriously contemplating divorce, I was feeling so alone. I was finding other women attractive and I did not like that, I wanted my wife, who was always concerned with other things. But I had moral standards that would not have allowed me to commit adultery.
> 
> She could tell there was something seriously wrong(I swear that woman can read my mind) and we finally communicated and she finally understood. She had preconceived ideas about men and sex, from her serial cheating POS ex hubby) and she was applying those to me.
> 
> She changed and I quit holding in things when she did something that made me angry. I started speaking my mind. We were again both each other's priority and the kids were 2nd, as it should be in a healthy moral relationship. His moral terpitude allowed him to cheat, plain and simple.


You are right. The whole situation makes me sad. 

Can I ask how you ended up on the forum if neither of you cheated? ( I am pretty sure I never would have found it or searched it out of it hadn’t felt necessary in my time of crisis.)


----------



## Divinely Favored

Woundidwife said:


> You are right. The whole situation makes me sad.
> 
> Can I ask how you ended up on the forum if neither of you cheated? ( I am pretty sure I never would have found it or searched it out of it hadn’t felt necessary in my time of crisis.)


I came across TAM when looking for way to change our dwindling sex life and then when my sister had a 2.5 yr affair on my BIL and then ODed when AP broke up with her, I was looking for a way to deal with the rage and disdain I feel toward her.


----------



## Diana7

Woundidwife said:


> Separation is not set yet—however much time I need.
> 
> We did see each other (specific circumstance) one day this week. Sadly, we had to put our dog down, and met at the vet’s office, but was not part of the plan and changes nothing in the separation


I think I would prefer a set time so as not to feel under any pressure. I would want at least 3 months of no contact with an option to extend to 6. I am sorry about your dog.


----------



## oldshirt

If someone is going to go NC for 3-6 months, you might as well just divorce and move on. 

People create whole new lives in 3-6 months. 

If someone is going to mark a date on the calendar, then they’re likely to just mark time and check off days while waiting for the deadline to arrive.

If it’s left open-ended, you’re either going to create a new life and move on or decide you want to go back. 

Or if after a week or two or three and the dust has settled and you decide you do want to try to reconcile, you can make attempts at that before one or both people have moved on to a new life and don’t really want to go back. 

But if you decide you want to move on, you don’t have to check off days on the calendar and mark time - you just move on.


----------



## Woundidwife

Divinely Favored said:


> I came across TAM when looking for way to change our dwindling sex life and then when my sister had a 2.5 yr affair on my BIL and then ODed when AP broke up with her, I was looking for a way to deal with the rage and disdain I feel toward her.


Oh wow. I am so sorry to hear that! God bless you. I can’t imagine how hard that must have been (and still is). 

I am sorry for your loss, and I hope you have found some closure snd/or peace.


----------



## Woundidwife

Diana7 said:


> I think I would prefer a set time so as not to feel under any pressure. I would want at least 3 months of no contact with an option to extend to 6. I am sorry about your dog.


Thank you. She was a wonderful pet and is irreplaceable. Never knew of anyone else who ever had such a smart and amazingly loving dog. I already miss her.


----------



## Diana7

oldshirt said:


> If someone is going to go NC for 3-6 months, you might as well just divorce and move on.
> 
> People create whole new lives in 3-6 months.
> 
> If someone is going to mark a date on the calendar, then they’re likely to just mark time and check off days while waiting for the deadline to arrive.
> 
> If it’s left open-ended, you’re either going to create a new life and move on or decide you want to go back.
> 
> Or if after a week or two or three and the dust has settled and you decide you do want to try to reconcile, you can make attempts at that before one or both people have moved on to a new life and don’t really want to go back.
> 
> But if you decide you want to move on, you don’t have to check off days on the calendar and mark time - you just move on.


It's time needed for the BS to get over the initial shock and think and reflect on the future. It stops the cheater from putting pressure on them or manipulating them. If the cheater isn't going to wait that short time then they aren't worth reconciling with anyway. 
.


----------



## SunCMars

When men finally wake up and take action, it is said they found their balls. 

A women, I suppose, finds her burning butt cheeks, at last.

To me, it is that activated pride that prods one into action.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Woundidwife said:


> Oh wow. I am so sorry to hear that! God bless you. I can’t imagine how hard that must have been (and still is).
> 
> I am sorry for your loss, and I hope you have found some closure snd/or peace.


No, no, no she did not die. They dosed her with charcoal. Then she was in ER upset because she had crapped in her favorite panties that AP bought her while I was sitting in waiting room with distraught BinL. That was when I knew, he was sobbing and saying, "I don't care what she has done, I just want her to live".

My wife had been saying all along her suspicions for a while. She can read a cheater's mail. Guess she knows what to look for from her 1st hubby. It is like they have it tattooed on their forehead or something. She said it is like she picks up a vibe from them, it is a 6th sense. She also has a serious disdain for adulterers.

Always thought when she passes if the POS comes to the funeral I will deck him and everyone there will know why. The AP is now supervisor over a National Forrest in FLA.


----------



## DosEquis

Time frames are completely irrelevant and subjective; 3 months, 6 months, who the hell cares? Do Drs kick patients out of critical care units due to some arbitrary time table and say, "Well. I know you're still in severe pain, heavily sedated and intubated but the chart says your time's up so you gotta move on"? No, if they are doing their job they just look at the key indicators of recovery.

Speaking of time tables, *27 years* of faithful loyal committment to your ch *didnt buy you one red cent* of fidelity in the moment of his testing so my belief is that you should take whatever the hell amount of time you need/want to get your bearings and make an initial determination concerning the path you'll take for *your* future.

End rant. Have a good day.


----------



## Diana7

DosEquis said:


> Time frames are completely irrelevant and subjective 3 months, 6 months, who the hell cares? Do Drs kick patients out of critical care units due to some arbitrary time table and say, "Well. I know you're still in severe pain, heavily sedated and intubated but the chart says your time's up so you gotta move on"? No, if they are doing their job they just look at the key indicators of recovery.
> 
> Speaking of time tables, *27 years* of faithful loyal committment to your ch *didnt buy you one red cent* of fidelity in the moment of his testing so my belief is that you should take whatever the hell amount of time you need/want to get your bearings and make an initial determination concerning the path you'll take for *your* future.
> 
> End rant. Have a good day.


Which is why a minimum time is so important. So the BS can actually have that time free from any pressure from the cheater to try and cajole with words and actions to get them to agree to have them back. The time can be extended if needed as many times as necessary.
It's what I would want in the the same position. To be able to say to the cheater "Don't contact me for 3 months" means everyone knows where they are.
Your comparison to a person in hospital is not the same in anyway. It's merely to give the BS the space they need to make their OWN mind up.


----------



## DosEquis

Diana7 said:


> Which is why a minimum time is so important. So the BS can actually have that time free from any pressure from the cheater to try and cajole with words and actions to get them to agree to have them back. The time can be extended if needed as many times as necessary.
> It's what I would want in the the same position. To be able to say to the cheater "Don't contact me for 3 months" means everyone knows where they are.
> Your comparison to a person in hospital is not the same in anyway. It's merely to give the BS the space they need to make their OWN mind up.


Hey D7, I get what youre saying (wasnt really responding to your comment, it was another that set me off about if you take x amount of time, you may as well *___*.)

Ive seen couples seperate for a month and divorce. Ive seen couples seperate for a year and reconcile. And vice versa. I agree with setting bounderies as to desired time frames and limited or nc. All Im saying is that WW is in the drivers seat and she can take as little or as much time as she [email protected] well pleases to do whatever she wants/needs to do. If she wants/needs an extension to her desired seperation time frame, then she should take it. The Betrayed can take whatever amount of time they want/need at any stage of recovery without any expectations by others as to future outcomes.

Thats all.


----------



## Woundidwife

Divinely Favored said:


> No, no, no she did not die. They dosed her with charcoal. Then she was in ER upset because she had crapped in her favorite panties that AP bought her while I was sitting in waiting room with distraught BinL. That was when I knew, he was sobbing and saying, "I don't care what she has done, I just want her to live".
> 
> My wife had been saying all along her suspicions for a while. She can read a cheater's mail. Guess she knows what to look for from her 1st hubby. It is like they have it tattooed on their forehead or something. She said it is like she picks up a vibe from them, it is a 6th sense. She also has a serious disdain for adulterers.
> 
> Always thought when she passes if the POS comes to the funeral I will deck him and everyone there will know why. The AP is now supervisor over a National Forrest in FLA.


Dang. That is rough. So the BIL stayed? Wow. I am sad for him. He must be so broken to have swallowed all of that.


----------



## BootsAndJeans

Divinely Favored said:


> A wound is less painful after time when it scares over, but you will always remember what caused the scar and remember the pain it caused.
> 
> He should have said something or divorced first.
> 
> My wife's was always in 1st place in my life(as it should be). After we had kids, I was moved to 4th, kids were moved to 1st, as she was trying to be supermom and pouring all of herself into them.
> 2
> Behind them remained work, them the house(she was a stickler about the house, had to be exactly right).
> I was moved to back of line.
> 
> I felt forgotten and abandoned by my wife, what made it most difficult, I am one who feels loved by physical intimacy. Sex dropped to 3x month and it was damaging the emotional connection I felt to my wife.
> 
> What ever she complained about or what ever I could see she needed help with in the house, I did. I was doing over 1/2 the house work and all of the yard work. But it still did not make room for time for us. Just gave her time to relax or do another project she wanted to do.
> 
> 
> It got to the point I was at the end of my rope and was seriously contemplating divorce, I was feeling so alone. I was finding other women attractive and I did not like that, I wanted my wife, who was always concerned with other things. But I had moral standards that would not have allowed me to commit adultery.
> 
> She could tell there was something seriously wrong(I swear that woman can read my mind) and we finally communicated and she finally understood. She had preconceived ideas about men and sex, from her serial cheating POS ex hubby) and she was applying those to me.
> 
> She changed and I quit holding in things when she did something that made me angry. I started speaking my mind. We were again both each other's priority and the kids were 2nd, as it should be in a healthy moral relationship. His moral terpitude allowed him to cheat, plain and simple.


Man, that sounds like my life for about 5 years. I volunteered for combat, I felt abandoned and did not care if I lived. When I came back...that was enough. I told her we had to be a married couple in every sense of the word. I was not going to continue to be just the local handyman and child support check. She listened and it did not change over night. But we learned the skills and became marital partners again.


----------



## snowbum

How has your husband changed during this time?


----------



## Woundidwife

Divinely Favored said:


> Yep I think he should have dumped my sister. He is 17 yrs her senior. She had a job where she traveled the country so that POS may not be the only one. I was livid, I would rather she had been killed in a car wreck than to be that kind of person.
> 
> I was in a dark place a few years, how could my big sister do something so vile.....I would have helped BIL dispose of POSOM if he wanted to go there. He was a co-worker of both of them.


Poor BIL, and you, too. I understand your feelings, Maybe she has changed? I will pray for her.


----------



## Woundidwife

snowbum said:


> How has your husband changed during this time?


He has learned to at least give me my space now. Well mostly. He does try to follow the rules I have set. He listens to me more now. He has been attending church and sounds much more at peace with himself (and family members with whom he had had strained relationships for all of his life). He is working on himself. He seems to have gotten rid of the anger, but I am leery of that being 100% true.. It feels too soon to have completely gone away and healed over in a healthy way. He believes he has remorse, but he isn’t truly there yet. He just doesn’t “get it” yet, though he has been taking steps in that direction. I guess he may need to admit to himself that he isn’t truly there yet to continue making progress and finally land in a place where he is a “safe” partner. He seems to want to put in the work, so maybe he will do all of that.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> He has learned to at least give me my space now. Well mostly. He does try to follow the rules I have set. He listens to me more now. He has been attending church and sounds much more at peace with himself (and family members with whom he had had strained relationships for all of his life). He is working on himself. He seems to have gotten rid of the anger, but I am leery of that being 100% true.. It feels too soon to have completely gone away and healed over in a healthy way. He believes he has remorse, but he isn’t truly there yet. He just doesn’t “get it” yet, though he has been taking steps in that direction. I guess he may need to admit to himself that he isn’t truly there yet to continue making progress and finally land in a place where he is a “safe” partner. He seems to want to put in the work, so maybe he will do all of that.


I am glad for his sake hes making some progress in your estimation. Excuse me if I missed it. Is he in IC? Has he read "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair?"


----------



## snowbum

What does he not get exactly?


----------



## re16

Woundidwife said:


> He just doesn’t “get it” yet, though he has been taking steps in that direction.


Wounded, I think worrying about whether *he* "gets it" or not is not who you should be worried about. You should be focused on you getting it... which means understanding that you have more value than to be cheated on at the drop of hat and lied to about it...and that you have the ability to make it just fine without him...


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> I am glad for his sake hes making some progress in your estimation. Excuse me if I missed it. Is he in IC? Has he read "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair?"


Yes, he is, and yes, he has. He tries to understand how I feel, and he believes he really does. I don’t think that is true, but it hasn’t deterred him from continuing to try. He is healing many of his own wounds at least.


----------



## Woundidwife

snowbum said:


> What does he not get exactly?


Understanding the depth of what he has done to me. He believes he is already a safe partner, but just he isn’t there yet.


----------



## Cynthia

Woundidwife said:


> Understanding the depth of what he has done to me. He believes he is already a safe partner, but just he isn’t there yet.


If he believes he's a safe partner, when he hasn't actually repented, then you know he's not safe. He has a lot to work through. It doesn't happen overnight. He has to see how his attitudes and behaviors have hurt you over the years, culminating in this terrible betrayal. If he can't see it and make major changes in his approach to life and relationships, he will never make a good husband.


----------



## *Deidre*

If you weren't separated, I wonder if he'd be going to church, and trying to ''understand'' you. I hope you take a long enough time to really process what you want, because it takes time to really change. For anyone to really change. Your husband has spent the majority of your marriage insulting, hurting and disrespecting you. He cheated because he thought he could. He thought he could hurt you even that badly, and you'd roll over and take it like you always have.

Your husband isn't going to suddenly start treating you with respect, when he's done the opposite of that for nearly three decades. Not saying he might not be trying, but he's mainly in damage control mode and he knows that you have always been there for him. He is probably feeling lost without you, but not for the right reasons.

I don't know... This doesn't seem like a generally good man who effed up once. He has mistreated you for a long time. It will take a long time for him to really commit to change.

It's not just about him, though. You'll change in this process, you'll become stronger, and he may not like the ''new you.'' He stayed all these years, because he could treat you however he wished, and you were always there. The dynamic will forever be different between you two, because you can't unknow what he did, now. I think that will be the real test for you both, if you decide to go back with him - will your strength be something that causes problems, or will he appreciate the new you? 

I hope you take my comments in the spirit that I mean them, and that is to help.


----------



## Diana7

It takes a very long time to be able to really change the way we behave and act. For your husband it's very early days and I doubt very much at all has changed in him as yet. 
How much of what he is doing is for show to get you back it's impossible to say, but I would want to see these changes over a very long period of time before I even thought about reconciling. 
He still doesn't seem to have taken full responsibility for what he did and that's troubling.


----------



## re16

Woundidwife said:


> He believes he is already a safe partner


Huh? This is a major red flag for R. He has a ton of work to do.... years worth....


----------



## snowbum

It’s been 5-6 weeks and he thinks he’s good? Not hardly


----------



## Woundidwife

re16 said:


> Huh? This is a major red flag for R. He has a ton of work to do.... years worth....


I agree. I know it’s true that it takes years to change completely. 

I haven’t seen any of the anger since he moved out, which has been nice.


----------



## Diana7

Woundidwife said:


> I agree. I know it’s true that it takes years to change completely.
> 
> I haven’t seen any of the anger since he moved out, which has been nice.


He's on his best behaviour.


----------



## Cynthia

Diana7 said:


> He's on his best behaviour.


Our actions come from our hearts. A person can pretend for only so long before they become exhausted by the effort and give up. That is why it's important to wait before making a decision to reconcile. If the person hasn't had a change of heart, they will eventually crack and the old behaviors will return. If there is a real heart change, their behaviors will slowly improve. They will likely relapse and recover, relapse and recover, until their relapse is shorter and their recovery stronger. This is one of the ways to know if someone is truthful or not. Watch their behavior over time.


----------



## Not

Cynthia said:


> Our actions come from our hearts. A person can pretend for only so long before they become exhausted by the effort and give up. That is why it's important to wait before making a decision to reconcile. If the person hasn't had a change of heart, they will eventually crack and the old behaviors will return. If there is a real heart change, their behaviors will slowly improve. They will likely relapse and recover, relapse and recover, until their relapse is shorter and their recovery stronger. This is one of the ways to know if someone is truthful or not. Watch their behavior over time.



I was going to say something similar. It's like trying to hold a big beach ball underwater, it can only be done for so long before the effort becomes to much and the old self comes crashing up through the surface. 

I'm all for giving others chances and time to try to really absorb and try to comprehend the damage they've caused. That cannot be an easy thing, probably one of the hardest things to do. Was any level of humility present before? Do I believe this person has the ability to reach the level of vulnerability and humility required for this process? Most of us know our spouses well enough after 2-3 decades to answer that ourselves. But still we hope for a miracle.


----------



## Megaforce

Cynthia said:


> If he believes he's a safe partner, when he hasn't actually repented, then you know he's not safe. He has a lot to work through. It doesn't happen overnight. He has to see how his attitudes and behaviors have hurt you over the years, culminating in this terrible betrayal. If he can't see it and make major changes in his approach to life and relationships, he will never make a good husband.


Unless he has corrected all the lies in that absurd story he gave you, I would not trust him.


----------



## Diana7

Not said:


> I was going to say something similar. It's like trying to hold a big beach ball underwater, it can only be done for so long before the effort becomes to much and the old self comes crashing up through the surface.
> 
> I'm all for giving others chances and time to try to really absorb and try to comprehend the damage they've caused. That cannot be an easy thing, probably one of the hardest things to do. Was any level of humility present before? Do I believe this person has the ability to reach the level of vulnerability and humility required for this process? Most of us know our spouses well enough after 2-3 decades to answer that ourselves. But still we hope for a miracle.


The trouble is that often the 'pretending I have changed' carries on till they move back in together. The after a few weeks or months the cracks start to show.


----------



## Cynthia

Megaforce said:


> Unless he has corrected all the lies in that absurd story he gave you, I would not trust him.


That, plus many other things. Rebuilding trust takes a lot of work for the offender and none from the betrayed, because the betrayed cannot rebuild truth in someone else.


Diana7 said:


> The trouble is that often the 'pretending I have changed' carries on till they move back in together. The after a few weeks or months the cracks start to show.


 It is important to wait and watch for a lengthy period of time. I'd say at least a year.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Yes, he is, and yes, he has. He tries to understand how I feel, and he believes he really does. I don’t think that is true, but it hasn’t deterred him from continuing to try. He is healing many of his own wounds at least.


Good to hear.

As you move through this time of seperation and reflect of what *you* need and want for the future now that the landscape of your marriage has irrevocably changed, I think youll know when its time to move forward in a more set direction. I dont like hard and fast time frames. I *do* like the "*take your time and dont rush it*" sentiment. 

My counsel is to wait until you hit the "*zen of meh*" stage where you know youll be ok with or without him as your husband & life partner. This is usually marked by greatly decreased emotional swings and anger that no longer burns white hot. Put another way, you reach a point of being semi ambivalent.

I do think you're heading there gauging by the tone of your recent posts.

Strength and healing to you Ma'am.

~ DE


----------



## jlg07

Woundidwife said:


> I had to do my 3 month STD/STI testing this week…put me in a pretty foul mood, of course. On the bright side, though, I was prescribed a very mild anti/anxiety, anti-depression, sleep medication and last night was the first time I have felt like I actually slept since August 24th. Woke up truly feeling rested. Gonna get some more again tonight. 😊
> 
> Also, I have IC tomorrow.


QUick Question WW - has he given you access to all of his phone, email, etc.? Have you looked to see if there was anything leading up to that Tuesday night? He will of course have deleted stuff, but you should be able to check the phone against your phone bill to see if he DID delete stuff (or use software to recover deleted texts). This may give you some sort of confidence that it was TRULY a ONS or if there was some sort of EA leading up to that.....


----------



## harperlee

Megaforce said:


> Unless he has corrected all the lies in that absurd story he gave you, I would not trust him.


It's very unlikely this woman was a stranger 'one night stand'. The OP has said herself that this is a small town.
Anyway, the marital dynamic is set, the holidays are upon us.
This is her life/journey.
Growth can be difficult but the alternative is worse.
I hope the best for you Woundidwife.


----------



## TinyTbone

Madam, I can vouch for what others are saying about change. It's hard, really hard. After 61 years on gods green earth, I found I have bipolar illness, sprinkled with ADHD to sweeten it. A very sobering moment for me. During IC I've had to come to terms that I haven't been a good person to live with and not easy to love. Obviously knowledge of my problems, acceptance of it and seeking treatment all help. Making amends to those I've wronged and Hurst is most beneficial. The biggie is that every single day of my life now I must be aware of my "defect" and approach each day anew in a way, so as to allow myself room to change and grow. To be able to communicate with my world in peace, not anger and emotional outbursts. It will take time for me to effect change, but it's time I want. I want to be better for me and my SO. 
Time is what it takes .


----------



## Woundidwife

He


jlg07 said:


> QUick Question WW - has he given you access to all of his phone, email, etc.? Have you looked to see if there was anything leading up to that Tuesday night? He will of course have deleted stuff, but you should be able to check the phone against your phone bill to see if he DID delete stuff (or use software to recover deleted texts). This may give you some sort of confidence that it was TRULY a ONS or if there was some sort of EA leading up to that.....


He did give me access to everything. He was also already in the habit of deleting everything (“keeps the phone running smoothly”). There was nothing to find. He truly did not know this woman, whom he chose over me, essentially ruining our lives.


----------



## Woundidwife

TinyTbone said:


> Madam, I can vouch for what others are saying about change. It's hard, really hard. After 61 years on gods green earth, I found I have bipolar illness, sprinkled with ADHD to sweeten it. A very sobering moment for me. During IC I've had to come to terms that I haven't been a good person to live with and not easy to love. Obviously knowledge of my problems, acceptance of it and seeking treatment all help. Making amends to those I've wronged and Hurst is most beneficial. The biggie is that every single day of my life now I must be aware of my "defect" and approach each day anew in a way, so as to allow myself room to change and grow. To be able to communicate with my world in peace, not anger and emotional outbursts. It will take time for me to effect change, but it's time I want. I want to be better for me and my SO.
> Time is what it takes .


I would agree 100%. He is working on all of that. He WILL become a better person and partner from this trauma.


----------



## snowbum

Are you back together then?


----------



## snowbum

What did he delete?
6 weeks reform is an act. 6 months is becoming a habit. He’s not magically different now.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Good to hear.
> 
> As you move through this time of seperation and reflect of what *you* need and want for the future now that the landscape of your marriage has irrevocably changed, I think youll know when its time to move forward in a more set direction. I dont like hard and fast time frames. I *do* like the "*take your time and dont rush it*" sentiment.
> 
> My counsel is to wait until you hit the "*zen of meh*" stage where you know youll be ok with or without him as your husband & life partner. This is usually marked by greatly decreased emotional swings and anger that no longer burns white hot. Put another way, you reach a point of being semi ambivalent.
> 
> I do think you're heading there gauging by the tone of your recent posts.
> 
> Strength and healing to you Ma'am.
> 
> ~ DE


DE,
I am already there and have been for some time. I know myself, and CANNOT become someone whom I am not, in order to forgive and stay with the man (CH) I thought I knew. When I realized I could no longer contort myself to even attempt reconciliation, I felt such relief—like a skank-sized weight had been lifted from my shoulders. I have been at peace ever since. I think I may also be able to forgive him at some point—as long as I am not forced to see him/live with him/be married to him any longer. I am getting closer to forgiveness…

Obviously, as I know my STBXH was reading every post, I could not inform of my detailed daily life, but I am definitely making progress and have been busy making preparations for a happier life for myself.

The anger has subsided and only returns when conversing with my CH. I also still cry sometimes—neither of which do I expect to disappear completely or any time in the near future.

I served him with divorce papers on Thursday, he signed receipt of them, and has moved back in to prevent more financial difficulties until the divorce is final. We had an initial realty consultation yesterday, and a realtor will be here on Tuesday for a photo shoot of our beautiful home as neither of us can afford it alone. I will be cleaning and decorating for the holidays one last time to stage the house for marketing purposes.

He sleeps in our college child’s room. I stay away in the evenings after work when I know he will be here. He has agreed to leave when I choose to be home. 

He says he will let me go without a fight, as that is what I have requested, but even after signing the divorce petition, he asked me if there was anything he could do to change my mind. (yesterday). I have told him in so many ways that I do not want to/cannot remain married to someone who could do something like this to me (no matter what the “reason” or excuse). He was not really listening before now. I think maybe he hears me now. 

We will have a 90 day mandatory waiting period and IF we come to acceptable financial terms before that time ends (which I think we can), we can divorce rather quickly. The big concern will be selling our house quickly enough and getting the asking price for which we are hoping.

Everyone,
Thank you for the support. This has been—and will continue to be—a difficult road, NOT of my choosing. I appreciate all of the kind words and self-help advice. The book suggestions have been invaluable!


----------



## Not

I would say congratulations but none of this is good reason to celebrate. People like your H make for really sad stories. By the time they begin to realize that who they are is so damaging they’ve also begun to realize they never really knew the person they’ve hurt the most. He’s now seeing the strength in you he never knew was there.

I wish you peace WW.


----------



## Openminded

I know how devastating it is to have your world turned upside down due to the actions of someone you love. I was positive I would never recover but in time I did and now I have a life that’s very different from the one I once had but it’s one I’m very happy with. I did forgive my exH after the divorce was final. At that point he became someone I thought I knew but obviously didn’t. It took awhile but I had finally reached the point of indifference. Hopefully, you will too.


----------



## *Deidre*

Woundidwife said:


> DE,
> I am already there and have been for some time. I know myself, and CANNOT become someone whom I am not, in order to forgive and stay with the man (CH) I thought I knew. When I realized I could no longer contort myself to even attempt reconciliation, I felt such relief—like a skank-sized weight had been lifter from my shoulders. I have been at peace ever since. I think I may also be able to forgive him at some point—as long as I am not forced to see him/live with him/be married to him any longer. I am getting closer to forgiveness…
> 
> Obviously, as I know my STBXH was reading every post, I could not inform of my detailed daily life, but I am definitely making progress and have been busy making preparations for a happier life for myself.
> 
> The anger has subsided and only returns when conversing with my CH. I also still cry sometimes—neither of which do I expect to disappear completely or any time in the near future.
> 
> I served him with divorce papers on Thursday, he signed receipt of them, and has moved back in to prevent more financial difficulties until the divorce is final. We had an initial realty consultation yesterday, and a realtor will be here on Tuesday for a photo shoot of our beautiful home as neither of us can afford it alone. I will be cleaning and decorating for the holidays one last time to stage the house for marketing purposes.
> 
> He sleeps in our college child’s room. I stay away in the evenings after work when I know he will be here. He has agreed to leave when I choose to be home.
> 
> He says he will let me go without a fight, as that is what I have requested, but even after signing the divorce petition, he asked me if there was anything he could do to change my mind. (yesterday). I have told him in so many ways that I do not want to/cannot remain married to someone who could do something like this to me (no matter what the “reason” or excuse). He was not really listening before now. I think maybe he hears me now.
> 
> We will have a 90 day mandatory waiting period and IF we come to acceptable financial terms before that time ends (which I think we can), we can divorce rather quickly. The big concern will be selling our house quickly enough and getting the asking price for which we are hoping.
> 
> Everyone,
> Thank you for the support. This has been—and will continue to be—a difficult road, NOT of my choosing. I appreciate all of the kind words and self-help advice. The book suggestions have been invaluable!


I’m teary eyed reading this, but it’s a mixture of sadness and happiness that you are working your way out of this destructive situation. You are so strong and I pray for your continued healing. And your stb ex’s healing, as well. 🙏


----------



## snowbum

Read this update. You can love someone but not accept or live with the situation. I don’t think dink divorce equals hate. Sometimes things are just untenible.


----------



## Diana7

snowbum said:


> Read this update. You can love someone but not accept or live with the situation. I don’t think dink divorce equals hate. Sometimes things are just untenible.


Absolutely. Forgiving and reconciliation are not the same thing at all.


----------



## QuietRiot

Wishing you the best. I’m so glad you have the strength and peace of mind to do what is right for yourself and your health. 

I hope you will continue to update on your story so people can read that it’s not “too late” to start over again, and in fact it can be a great blessing…Especially as women, we are viewed as being past our expiration at 30 which is simply not true. I have a feeling your story will be an awesome adventure. The world is your oyster. ♥


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> He
> He did give me access to everything. He was also already in the habit of deleting everything (“keeps the phone running smoothly”). There was nothing to find. He truly did not know this woman, whom he chose over me, essentially ruining our lives.


Who is the source of your information re his knowing her?


----------



## snowbum

What did he delete and why?


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> DE,
> I am already there and have been for some time. I know myself, and CANNOT become someone whom I am not, in order to forgive and stay with the man (CH) I thought I knew. When I realized I could no longer contort myself to even attempt reconciliation, I felt such relief—like a skank-sized weight had been lifter from my shoulders. I have been at peace ever since. I think I may also be able to forgive him at some point—as long as I am not forced to see him/live with him/be married to him any longer. I am getting closer to forgiveness…
> 
> Obviously, as I know my STBXH was reading every post, I could not inform of my detailed daily life, but I am definitely making progress and have been busy making preparations for a happier life for myself.
> 
> The anger has subsided and only returns when conversing with my CH. I also still cry sometimes—neither of which do I expect to disappear completely or any time in the near future.
> 
> I served him with divorce papers on Thursday, he signed receipt of them, and has moved back in to prevent more financial difficulties until the divorce is final. We had an initial realty consultation yesterday, and a realtor will be here on Tuesday for a photo shoot of our beautiful home as neither of us can afford it alone. I will be cleaning and decorating for the holidays one last time to stage the house for marketing purposes.
> 
> He sleeps in our college child’s room. I stay away in the evenings after work when I know he will be here. He has agreed to leave when I choose to be home.
> 
> He says he will let me go without a fight, as that is what I have requested, but even after signing the divorce petition, he asked me if there was anything he could do to change my mind. (yesterday). I have told him in so many ways that I do not want to/cannot remain married to someone who could do something like this to me (no matter what the “reason” or excuse). He was not really listening before now. I think maybe he hears me now.
> 
> We will have a 90 day mandatory waiting period and IF we come to acceptable financial terms before that time ends (which I think we can), we can divorce rather quickly. The big concern will be selling our house quickly enough and getting the asking price for which we are hoping.
> 
> Everyone,
> Thank you for the support. This has been—and will continue to be—a difficult road, NOT of my choosing. I appreciate all of the kind words and self-help advice. The book suggestions have been invaluable!


Thank you for updating WW. I affirm you doing what is right/best for you. Harkening back to an earlier post, you are refusing a "choice" that was truly no choice at all. 

As you continue move through this process, I hope youll do so as you have to date, with purpose and determination. I wish you continued healing and strength, especially through the holidays.

I hope you'll continue to update as you are able and if you start another thread in the divorce recovery forum, please let us know. 

Solidarity Ma'am.


----------



## Megaforce

Time to take out the trash.


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> DE,
> I am already there and have been for some time. I know myself, and CANNOT become someone whom I am not, in order to forgive and stay with the man (CH) I thought I knew. When I realized I could no longer contort myself to even attempt reconciliation, I felt such relief—like a skank-sized weight had been lifted from my shoulders. I have been at peace ever since. I think I may also be able to forgive him at some point—as long as I am not forced to see him/live with him/be married to him any longer. I am getting closer to forgiveness…
> 
> Obviously, as I know my STBXH was reading every post, I could not inform of my detailed daily life, but I am definitely making progress and have been busy making preparations for a happier life for myself.
> 
> The anger has subsided and only returns when conversing with my CH. I also still cry sometimes—neither of which do I expect to disappear completely or any time in the near future.
> 
> I served him with divorce papers on Thursday, he signed receipt of them, and has moved back in to prevent more financial difficulties until the divorce is final. We had an initial realty consultation yesterday, and a realtor will be here on Tuesday for a photo shoot of our beautiful home as neither of us can afford it alone. I will be cleaning and decorating for the holidays one last time to stage the house for marketing purposes.
> 
> He sleeps in our college child’s room. I stay away in the evenings after work when I know he will be here. He has agreed to leave when I choose to be home.
> 
> He says he will let me go without a fight, as that is what I have requested, but even after signing the divorce petition, he asked me if there was anything he could do to change my mind. (yesterday). I have told him in so many ways that I do not want to/cannot remain married to someone who could do something like this to me (no matter what the “reason” or excuse). He was not really listening before now. I think maybe he hears me now.
> 
> We will have a 90 day mandatory waiting period and IF we come to acceptable financial terms before that time ends (which I think we can), we can divorce rather quickly. The big concern will be selling our house quickly enough and getting the asking price for which we are hoping.
> 
> Everyone,
> Thank you for the support. This has been—and will continue to be—a difficult road, NOT of my choosing. I appreciate all of the kind words and self-help advice. The book suggestions have been invaluable!


I wish you the best in finding a way forward, I'm confident you can. It's so hard to accept change when you've built upur entire life around an idea and think you can trust it to keep growing. 

Maybe he'll realize what he chose to take for granted and destroy. Maybe he'll become a better person, and I hope so, it's such a waste of a life to ruin everything you touch. But, you deserve so much more and I know you'll get it whatever you decide "it" is.

It will suck sometimes, it will hurt for a long time , especially for sentimental times like the holidays coming up and all the "firsts". Birthdays,anniversaries, etc. 

Please keep coming back, we're still here for support and to help others. That's why I'm still here, I've tried to give back the support I received, the kindness I wish I'd received (I got quite a bit of 2x4s). I've got so much support , received lots of care and kindness since while rebuilding my life. It's helped fill that void for me, maybe it can help you too.

I won't congratulate you, it sucks to let go of the dream of a life you invested time, emotion and energy into. Instead, be brave, be bold and go forward fearlessly. You've gotten so much stronger and positive, and it's only the beginning. I was scared too, in your place, but it's been a few years now and I'm beginning too see how little I settled for before with someone who didn't value me enough to treasure everything I poured into our life together.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Thank you for updating WW. I affirm you doing what is right/best for you. Harkening back to an earlier post, you are refusing a "choice" that was truly no choice at all.
> 
> As you continue move through this process, I hope youll do so as you have to date, with purpose and determination. I wish you continued healing and strength, especially through the holidays.
> 
> I hope you'll continue to update as you are able and if you start another thread in the divorce recovery forum, please let us know.
> 
> Solidarity Ma'am.


Thank you. I will let you know!


----------



## Woundidwife

TXTrini said:


> I wish you the best in finding a way forward, I'm confident you can. It's so hard to accept change when you've built upur entire life around an idea and think you can trust it to keep growing.
> 
> Maybe he'll realize what he chose to take for granted and destroy. Maybe he'll become a better person, and I hope so, it's such a waste of a life to ruin everything you touch. But, you deserve so much more and I know you'll get it whatever you decide "it" is.
> 
> It will suck sometimes, it will hurt for a long time , especially for sentimental times like the holidays coming up and all the "firsts". Birthdays,anniversaries, etc.
> 
> Please keep coming back, we're still here for support and to help others. That's why I'm still here, I've tried to give back the support I received, the kindness I wish I'd received (I got quite a bit of 2x4s). I've got so much support , received lots of care and kindness since while rebuilding my life. It's helped fill that void for me, maybe it can help you too.
> 
> I won't congratulate you, it sucks to let go of the dream of a life you invested time, emotion and energy into. Instead, be brave, be bold and go forward fearlessly. You've gotten so much stronger and positive, and it's only the beginning. I was scared too, in your place, but it's been a few years now and I'm beginning too see how little I settled for before with someone who didn't value me enough to treasure everything I poured into our life together.


Thank you. I know that you understand. 

For the first time ever, I HAVE BEEN dreading the holidays. 😔


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you. I know that you understand.
> 
> For the first time ever, I HAVE BEEN dreading the holidays. 😔


It'll suck, but it will get easier to bear with time. Stick around, post when you need to vent or to know someone cares. I had many lovely ladies check in on me if they thought I sounded glum and it made me feel so much less alone. 

Btw, many of us posting understand, I recognize other former betrayed spouses. We might sound hardass sometimes, but it's in an attempt to spare you some of what we've been through. Noone who's been down this road and has any kind of heart wishes this on anyone else. 

It's been 3 years for me, I'm only now looking forward to the holidays again, though I suspect it would have been longer if I didn't have a special person in my life.


----------



## Woundidwife

*Deidre* said:


> I’m teary eyed reading this, but it’s a mixture of sadness and happiness that you are working your way out of this destructive situation. You are so strong and I pray for your continued healing. And your stb ex’s healing, as well. 🙏


Thank you. ❤


----------



## Megaforce

My views on this are pretty entrenched. It is not that I did not struggle as well with making the decision to divorce.
I really cast a jaundiced eye toward the claims that folks who remain together have any semblance of a happy marriage. 
I think I am fairly typical, average in terms of being able to let things go without holding much of a grudge. Maybe even a bit to forgiving.
But this particular offense so vitiates a relationship , that I cannot imagine what it would be like going forward.

Being alone, in a small efficiency apartment, with limited time with my kids was very scary and saddening. I had really loved my wife despite now recognizing her as a narcissistic abuser.

You may be scared atvfirst. With time you will start to see even more clearly how abusive your husband has always been and will be relieved to be out.
All I really needed to hear about your husband was that he had belittled you. The fact that it was in front of your children is even more egregious. Normal people, simply, do not do this.
Whenever I would doubt I had made the right decision, I had a number of truly abusive events I would harken back to. One was when my wife came in drunk at 2AM and awakened me to describe the physique of the man she had been with all evening. It was belittling at its finest,
If you have doubts going, think not only about the cheating, but the belittling. 
Hopefully, you will tell your kids what he did.


----------



## Affaircare

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you. I know that you understand.
> 
> For the first time ever, I HAVE BEEN dreading the holidays. 😔


May I make a suggestion? Up to this point, the holidays were celebrated with certain people and there were certain traditions and that's just the way it was...and you were happy. This holiday season IS going to be different: they won't be celebrated with certain people who were your "habit" and you won't be doing certain tradition, etc. So why not make this holiday season truly different? Invite new people...people you WANT to be with! Do new things--create new traditions that are meaningful to YOU. 

The first holidays after I divorced, I spent the morning at the homeless shelter seating people at the free dinner and pouring their water or drinks (they could have juice or coffee or tea). I remember going in I felt so low and like my life sucked, and after having been there until about 2pm, I felt blessed. I blessed them and they blessed me. I also had a POT LUCK Thanksgiving and invited anyone who had nowhere else to go to come to my house--the only rule was to bring something to share. I made a HUGE turkey and left all the rest to everyone else. For Christmas, I asked the kids (they were young then) what they wanted for Christmas eve dinner, and they said that they HATED having to get all dressed up to eat a fancy meal--so they requested we eat spaghetti...with our fingers! LOL We put on t-shirts and got a plastic tablecloth (to clean up easier), and it was crazy and a little messy...but also memorable and fun. We also made a new tradition of going together to a couple stores and picking a family ornament that had the year on it, so that every year we had memories of picking that year's ornament. 

My point is that rather looking at the holidays and what you're "not" doing or who you're not doing it with, find some things that you've always wanted to do for the holidays and never did: like go ice skating and get hot chocolate afterward...or cater a meal! Go be Mrs. Santa at a nursing home. Go to that fancy fundraising ball in that fancy dress! Take a sleigh ride. Whatever it is, pick a couple of things that are uniquely YOU and do them. It will make these holidays YOURS.


----------



## Woundidwife

Megaforce said:


> My views on this are pretty entrenched. It is not that I did not struggle as well with making the decision to divorce.
> I really cast a jaundiced eye toward the claims that folks who remain together have any semblance of a happy marriage.
> I think I am fairly typical, average in terms of being able to let things go without holding much of a grudge. Maybe even a bit to forgiving.
> But this particular offense so vitiates a relationship , that I cannot imagine what it would be like going forward.
> 
> Being alone, in a small efficiency apartment, with limited time with my kids was very scary and saddening. I had really loved my wife despite now recognizing her as a narcissistic abuser.
> 
> You may be scared atvfirst. With time you will start to see even more clearly how abusive your husband has always been and will be relieved to be out.
> All I really needed to hear about your husband was that he had belittled you. The fact that it was in front of your children is even more egregious. Normal people, simply, do not do this.
> Whenever I would doubt I had made the right decision, I had a number of truly abusive events I would harken back to. One was when my wife came in drunk at 2AM and awakened me to describe the physique of the man she had been with all evening. It was belittling at its finest,
> If you have doubts going, think not only about the cheating, but the belittling.
> Hopefully, you will tell your kids what he did.


Thank you. I think your suggestions WILL help me get through the dark days and the tough times.

Our (grown) children already know. They said they would support whatever decision I made. 

They are truly amazing kids! I am so proud of them and love spending every minute I can with them. ❤


----------



## Woundidwife

Affaircare said:


> May I make a suggestion? Up to this point, the holidays were celebrated with certain people and there were certain traditions and that's just the way it was...and you were happy. This holiday season IS going to be different: they won't be celebrated with certain people who were your "habit" and you won't be doing certain tradition, etc. So why not make this holiday season truly different? Invite new people...people you WANT to be with! Do new things--create new traditions that are meaningful to YOU.
> 
> The first holidays after I divorced, I spent the morning at the homeless shelter seating people at the free dinner and pouring their water or drinks (they could have juice or coffee or tea). I remember going in I felt so low and like my life sucked, and after having been there until about 2pm, I felt blessed. I blessed them and they blessed me. I also had a POT LUCK Thanksgiving and invited anyone who had nowhere else to go to come to my house--the only rule was to bring something to share. I made a HUGE turkey and left all the rest to everyone else. For Christmas, I asked the kids (they were young then) what they wanted for Christmas eve dinner, and they said that they HATED having to get all dressed up to eat a fancy meal--so they requested we eat spaghetti...with our fingers! LOL We put on t-shirts and got a plastic tablecloth (to clean up easier), and it was crazy and a little messy...but also memorable and fun. We also made a new tradition of going together to a couple stores and picking a family ornament that had the year on it, so that every year we had memories of picking that year's ornament.
> 
> My point is that rather looking at the holidays and what you're "not" doing or who you're not doing it with, find some things that you've always wanted to do for the holidays and never did: like go ice skating and get hot chocolate afterward...or cater a meal! Go be Mrs. Santa at a nursing home. Go to that fancy fundraising ball in that fancy dress! Take a sleigh ride. Whatever it is, pick a couple of things that are uniquely YOU and do them. It will make these holidays YOURS.


Thank you for taking the time to type all of this! I will take some of your suggestions and try to make some new traditions for myself. 😊

I guess I should have specified WHY I am dreading the holidays and the biggest reason isn’t because I won’t be spending them with the same people. It is because I WILL be spending most of them with the same people, I just don’t feel the same about one of them anymore and we already spend too much time together. 

Our kids have very limited time back at home with us during holidays. I will not make or even ask them divide their time this year at least, which means I when I spend holiday time with our children, it will also with my STBX. Awkwardness is what I am dreading this year—for Thanksgiving and Christmas at least. There will also be sadness, and our kids REALLY do not want to deal with or witness any of that if possible. I am 100% certain of that.

ETA: It will just never be the same. 😔


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you for taking the time to type all of this! I will take some of your suggestions and try to make some new traditions for myself. 😊
> 
> I guess I should have specified WHY I am dreading the holidays and the biggest reason isn’t because I won’t be spending them with the same people. It is because I WILL be spending most of them with the same people, I just don’t feel the same about one of them anymore and we already spend too much time together.
> 
> Our kids have very limited time back at home with us during holidays. I will not make or even ask them divide their time this year at least, which means I when I spend holiday time with our children, it will also with my STBX. Awkwardness is what I am dreading this year—for Thanksgiving and Christmas at least. There will also be sadness, and our kids REALLY do not want to deal with or witness any of that if possible. I am 100% certain of that.


Completely understandable.

As you work your way through the first holiday seperated from your stbxh, stay focused on the goal, a healthy, healing you. This too will be a learning experience, albeit an uncomfortable one, but that will be assuaged by the joy of seeing and being with your kids. They will be adjusting to the new reality as well, so it can be a bonding experience of sorts as you all sort your way through it. When you get this in your rearview, it will be yet another step forward into your new future.

So, use all of the new "tools" you have on board from reading, IC and posting here. Keep your internal conversations positive (tell yourself the things you'd tell a close friend in this situation, knowing what you now know), and breath. This too shall pass.

BTW Affairecare's suggestions were fabulous.

Happy Thanksgiving WW.


----------



## Openminded

You’re correct. It won’t be the same. Nothing is after divorce. And, yes, the first holidays, or birthdays, or first anything is difficult. Very. But you create a new life and a new normal and slowly things come together. I was extremely uncomfortable the first year after my divorce when it was time for family gatherings because I wasn’t interested in seeing my exH and his new wife so we started splitting time with our grandchildren. After the first year, it didn’t bother me — things felt more normal — but the first year is tough for many reasons. Holidays are always at the top of the list of why it’s tough. Family traditions I’d had for 45 years were suddenly gone. I thought my life would never again be good but it is and yours will be too. It’ll just take a little time. I wish you the best going forward.


----------



## DosEquis

Hope you have as good a Thanksgiving as possible WW.


----------



## Woundidwife

Openminded said:


> You’re correct. It won’t be the same. Nothing is after divorce. And, yes, the first holidays, or birthdays, or first anything is difficult. Very. But you create a new life and a new normal and slowly things come together. I was extremely uncomfortable the first year after my divorce when it was time for family gatherings because I wasn’t interested in seeing my exH and his new wife so we started splitting time with our grandchildren. After the first year, it didn’t bother me — things felt more normal — but the first year is tough for many reasons. Holidays are always at the top of the list of why it’s tough. Family traditions I’d had for 45 years were suddenly gone. I thought my life would never again be good but it is and yours will be too. It’ll just take a little time. I wish you the best going forward.


Wow! 45 years? I thought 27 was rough. God bless you. 

So there is life after divorce. I hope that you have found both peace and happiness!


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Hope you have as good a Thanksgiving as possible WW.


Thank you. It has been a day of strategic avoidance. (He has moved back in to “save money” that will be needed for the divorce.) Every day is strategic avoidance. I try not to be home when I know he will be. It has been difficult and apparently cohabitating again is way more uncomfortable for me than for him. I am looking for a temporary place to live. 

The next few days will be much harder, when our grown children and SOs will be there, and we will all be in the same place at the same time.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you. It has been a day of strategic avoidance. (He has moved back in to “save money” that will be needed for the divorce.) Every day is strategic avoidance. I try not to be home when I know he will be. It has been difficult and apparently cohabitating again is way more uncomfortable for me than for him. I am looking for a temporary place to live.
> 
> The next few days will be much harder, when our grown children and SOs will be there, and we will all be in the same place at the same time.


I’m really sorry you have to walk this terrible path, but if I can say… you are handling this like as well as I’ve seen. The emotional spikes make you want to scream and cry and tear down everything around you… but you held it in check and you’re in control. And you settle down and think rationally and your decisions are perfect. Well done. As crappy as it feels to be you right now, your strength is to be admired. You’re doing great WW.


----------



## Openminded

Woundidwife said:


> Wow! 45 years? I thought 27 was rough. God bless you.
> 
> So there is life after divorce. I hope that you have found both peace and happiness!


Thank you. And yes there is and yes I did. It wasn’t quick and for sure it wasn’t easy. A great deal of my life got left behind in the process and I had to totally rebuild but today I wouldn’t trade my life for anyone’s. It’s mine to do with as I choose and I very much value that.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you. It has been a day of strategic avoidance. (He has moved back in to “save money” that will be needed for the divorce.) Every day is strategic avoidance. I try not to be home when I know he will be. It has been difficult and apparently cohabitating again is way more uncomfortable for me than for him. I am looking for a temporary place to live.
> 
> The next few days will be much harder, when our grown children and SOs will be there, and we will all be in the same place at the same time.


Yeh, "strategic avoidance" just *sounds* uncomfortable....and tiring. Bleh.

Well, youre doing what you have to do to move forward. Hope you locate a temporary living arrangement asap.

As to, "*apparently cohabitating again is way more uncomfortable for me than for him,*" He may be (probably is) hoping that close proximity will wear down your defenses/weaken your resolve and is willfully ignoring the fact that the ship called "chances for reconciliation" has sailed....for good.


----------



## *Deidre*

I agree with that ^^

Why do you have to move out? He cheated, he should move out. Ugh.😞

Stay strong, you’re doing great.


----------



## DosEquis

Hey WW, how was your weekend?


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Hey WW, how was your weekend?


Some good. Some rough. It was a lot. I was very happy to see both of my grown children. The older one brought an SO and became engaged the day before! 

We also buried the cremains of our beloved dog as a family and planted flower bulbs there that will come up in the spring—probably AFTER we have sold this house.

My STBXH was there the whole time, however, and that was hard. He wants to make conversation with just me and keep apologizing. Just his presence in my space makes me angry sometimes. 
Then he asked me to go get coffee with him…lunch…I am not interested in dating him, but I feel like that is his intention. (Maybe long after the divorce and dating others I may change my mind, but right now, I have zero interest.)

I wanted to move out completely, but he is controlling me with that until the house is sold. He SAYS neither of us can take care of the house by ourselves. This is not true. I told him I could and he could move back out. He said that as long as he is paying the bills, he has the right to live here—which is true. I told him he could take care of the house by himself he says he DOESN’T WANT TO. So by deduction, I can reason that he will let the house go, so that we cannot sell it, or destroy something out of spite for a similar result. He says he isn’t vindictive anymore, but old habits die hard, so that is very difficult to believe.

I had been staying with different friends and family members a night here and there, but he came looking for me. No matter what he says, he just cannot respect my boundaries…so I have to be here to keep him out of my friends’ and family members’ business…and I don’t want to drag them into my mess anyway. But this is going to be hard. I need space and this isn’t it.

We had 2 showings of the house on Sunday. Have another one scheduled for Thursday. I hope this thing sells fast! I can’t do this forever. Meanwhile, we are dogsitting our oldest kid’s big dogs virtually until Christmas. So we have to tag team the dogs. 

So I am stuck here for now. 

I also learned that I have to sell the car that I love. I owe too much on it to refinance it and remove my STBXH’s name at a higher interest rate. ([email protected] shame….I had 0% interest!) So I will be getting something much cheaper and easier to manage on my own. 😔


----------



## Woundidwife

*Deidre* said:


> I agree with that ^^
> 
> Why do you have to move out? He cheated, he should move out. Ugh.😞
> 
> Stay strong, you’re doing great.


Thank you. I am trying. This is a difficult road!!!


----------



## snowbum

You don’t have to stay. He sounds like a psycho. What’s he going to do if you leave? I don’t think he believes you will. Sounds like he thinks he’ll trap or threaten you into staying.


----------



## Not

I would do the same in your shoes, WW. You want the sale of the house to go through and don’t trust him to not sabotage. You’re being smart.
That was the hardest part of my divorce, having to stay in the same home. Just look at it as the work that needs to be got done to get to where you need to go. Hard but necessary.


----------



## *Deidre*

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you. I am trying. This is a difficult road!!!


You're doing great. This is progress and it will be painful for a while. I knew that he wouldn't make it easy. He doesn't want his lifestyle with you to go away. He is probably shocked that you've not caved by now and gone back to the way things were. Please just keep going forward. You've never stood up to him before, so this is all new. Stay strong. 🙏


----------



## Openminded

Now you see that his controlling manner hasn’t really changed. He came looking for you? He thinks you’re still his possession. People can fake temporary change to get what they want but permanent change is difficult and few are willing to put in the time and work to get there. He’s not there. And he may never be so don’t include him in your future plans until you know for sure he would be a safe partner.


----------



## *Deidre*

I think that your husband is likely not to change. What seems to be happening, is that you have made a shift in your thinking about what you will and will not tolerate. That is where the change will happen for you, Woundid. Your husband has no reason to change, after 27 years of treating you the way he has, it would take a longgggg time for him to ''change.'' So, it's no longer about waiting on him to change, you're the one changing, and that is what is making this road tougher...because all good things worth having is a harder road. Becoming someone who doesn’t tolerate emotional abuse, control and infidelity is huge progress. ☺


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Some good. Some rough. It was a lot. I was very happy to see both of my grown children. The older one brought an SO and became engaged the day before!
> 
> We also buried the cremains of our beloved dog as a family and planted flower bulbs there that will come up in the spring—probably AFTER we have sold this house.
> 
> My STBXH was there the whole time, however, and that was hard. He wants to make conversation with just me and keep apologizing. Just his presence in my space makes me angry sometimes.
> Then he asked me to go get coffee with him,,,lunch…I am not interested in dating him, but I feel like that is his intention. (Maybe long after the divorce and dating others I may change my mind, but right now, I have zero interest.)
> 
> I wanted to move out completely, but he is controlling me with that until the house is sold. He SAYS neither of us can take care of the house by ourselves. This is not true. I told him I could and he could move back out. He said that as long as he is paying the bills, he has the right to live here—which is true. I told him he could take care of the house by himself he says he DOESN’T WANT TO. So by deduction, I can reason that he will let the house go, so that we cannot sell it, or destroy something out of spite for a similar result. He says he isn’t vindictive anymore, but old habits die hard, so that is very difficult to believe.
> 
> I had been staying with different friends and family members a night here and there, but he came looking for me. No matter what he says, he just cannot respect my boundaries…so I have to be here to keep him out of my friends’s and family members’ business…and I don’t want to drag them into my mess anyway. But this is going to be hard. I need space and this isn’t it.
> 
> We had 2 showings of the house on Sunday. Have another one scheduled for Thursday. I hope this thing sells fast! I can’t do this forever. Meanwhile, we are dogsitting our oldest kid’s big dogs virtually until Christmas. So we have to tag team the dogs.
> 
> So I am stuck here for now.
> 
> I also learned that I have to sell the car that I love. I owe too much on it to refinance it and remove my STBXH’s name at a higher interest rate. ([email protected] shame….I had 0% interest!) So I will be getting something much cheaper and easier to manage on my own. 😔


Thank you for updating. Thats a LOT to deal with....again.

Well, hes doing what I thought he'd do......pester you thinking hes going to wear down your resolve. This just shows once again that hes thinking of himself first and foremost. Hate to say this but once you get everything in place and truly seperate, you may need to get a TRO if he keeps this up. Really sad and maddening for you Im sure. For your sake, I too hope the house sells quickly.

Glad you got to see your kids and enjoy the great news about the engagement! 

You're gonna make it through....one step at a time.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

@Woundidwife Given the way your husband has acted since the affair, without much indication of true remorse, why do you think he disclosed the ONS? Given his behavior I don't see why he didn't keep it a secret.


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> Some good. Some rough. It was a lot. I was very happy to see both of my grown children. The older one brought an SO and became engaged the day before!
> 
> We also buried the cremains of our beloved dog as a family and planted flower bulbs there that will come up in the spring—probably AFTER we have sold this house.
> 
> My STBXH was there the whole time, however, and that was hard. He wants to make conversation with just me and keep apologizing. Just his presence in my space makes me angry sometimes.
> Then he asked me to go get coffee with him…lunch…I am not interested in dating him, but I feel like that is his intention. (Maybe long after the divorce and dating others I may change my mind, but right now, I have zero interest.)
> 
> I wanted to move out completely, but he is controlling me with that until the house is sold. He SAYS neither of us can take care of the house by ourselves. This is not true. I told him I could and he could move back out. He said that as long as he is paying the bills, he has the right to live here—which is true. I told him he could take care of the house by himself he says he DOESN’T WANT TO. So by deduction, I can reason that he will let the house go, so that we cannot sell it, or destroy something out of spite for a similar result. He says he isn’t vindictive anymore, but old habits die hard, so that is very difficult to believe.
> 
> I had been staying with different friends and family members a night here and there, but he came looking for me. No matter what he says, he just cannot respect my boundaries…so I have to be here to keep him out of my friends’ and family members’ business…and I don’t want to drag them into my mess anyway. But this is going to be hard. I need space and this isn’t it.
> 
> We had 2 showings of the house on Sunday. Have another one scheduled for Thursday. I hope this thing sells fast! I can’t do this forever. Meanwhile, we are dogsitting our oldest kid’s big dogs virtually until Christmas. So we have to tag team the dogs.
> 
> So I am stuck here for now.
> 
> I also learned that I have to sell the car that I love. I owe too much on it to refinance it and remove my STBXH’s name at a higher interest rate. ([email protected] shame….I had 0% interest!) So I will be getting something much cheaper and easier to manage on my own. 😔


Ugh, what a crapton of things to deal with all at once. You're doing really great, even if it doesn't feel like it right now. 

STBXH really doesn't get it, does he? Well, at least you're seeing his true colors now, and that'll only serve to help you to avoid second-guessing yourself. It's bloody exhausting to manage other people's **** on top of your own, isn't it? Hopefully, the house will sell quickly, and you can move out and find some peace.


----------



## TXTrini

*Deidre* said:


> I think that your husband is likely not to change. What seems to be happening, is that you have made a shift in your thinking about what you will and will not tolerate. That is where the change will happen for you, Woundid. Your husband has no reason to change, after 27 years of treating you the way he has, it would take a longgggg time for him to ''change.'' So, it's no longer about waiting on him to change, you're the one changing, and that is what is making this road tougher...because all good things worth having is a harder road. Becoming someone who doesn’t tolerate emotional abuse, control and infidelity is huge progress. ☺


This is exactly what happened when I decided it was time to take the wheel. It's really hard to have to take full responsibility in what should be an adult relationship to make hard decisions alone, but when you think back later on, you realize it was always that way. 

That's why he wants to hang on, life was easy for him, he always had backup.


----------



## Megaforce

BigDaddyNY said:


> @Woundidwife Given the way your husband has acted since the affair, without much indication of true remorse, why do you think he disclosed the ONS? Given his behavior I don't see why he didn't keep it a secret.


Exactly. This is not the type of person moved to confess out of guilt.


----------



## *Deidre*

TXTrini said:


> This is exactly what happened when I decided it was time to take the wheel. It's really hard to have to take full responsibility in what should be an adult relationship to make hard decisions alone, but when you think back later on, you realize it was always that way.
> 
> That's why he wants to hang on, life was easy for him, he always had backup.


Yep! 

I think it’s concerning that WW’s STBX went “looking for her.” That’s likely because he cheated, so he thinks there’s someone else I bet. He can’t fathom that his wife is growing in strength on her own.

I knew he wasn’t going to change. I sound so pessimistic lol but change takes time. And men like this, hmm…I just don’t see it. He thinks this is how men are supposed to treat women, like we were put on Earth to serve them, and he’s made a life of it. So why change.🤷‍♀️


----------



## Not

BigDaddyNY said:


> @Woundidwife Given the way your husband has acted since the affair, without much indication of true remorse, why do you think he disclosed the ONS? Given his behavior I don't see why he didn't keep it a secret.


Intentional infliction of pain. To knock her down a peg or two. Especially if he felt she had done something to betray him and it could be the smallest stupidest thing to all the rest of us.

Until you've experienced it yourself you'd never believe how these people operate.


----------



## Megaforce

*Deidre* said:


> Yep!
> 
> I think it’s concerning that WW’s STBX went “looking for her.” That’s likely because he cheated, so he thinks there’s someone else I bet. He can’t fathom that his wife is growing in strength on her own.
> 
> I knew he wasn’t going to change. I sound so pessimistic lol but change takes time. And men like this, hmm…I just don’t see it. He thinks this is how men are supposed to treat women, like we were put on Earth to serve them, and he’s made a life of it. So why change.🤷‍♀️


Reminds me of the women cheaters and narcissists who treat men as disposable and as cash machines.
My Xw as super entitled . I was working 3 jobs to try to keep up with her spending. At last count she had 50 bikinis and hundreds of shoes.
My fault. Should have jettisoned her the first time she spent the money earmarked for our mortgage.


----------



## *Deidre*

Megaforce said:


> Reminds me of the women cheaters and narcissists who treat men as disposable and as cash machines.
> My Xw as super entitled . I was working 3 jobs to try to keep up with her spending. At last count she had 50 bikinis and hundreds of shoes.
> My fault. Should have jettisoned her the first time she spent the money earmarked for our mortgage.


Yep, there are female equivalents, too.

I wonder what would have happened if you told your ex, ''no?''


----------



## Megaforce

*Deidre* said:


> Yep, there are female equivalents, too.
> 
> I wonder what would have happened if you told your ex, ''no?''


I asked my therapist this. He said there would have been zero change, just retaliation. It would have ended the marriage much sooner, which would have been a very good thing.
Narcissists do not take no for an answer. If it were not for the kids, I would have been gone much sooner.


----------



## *Deidre*

Megaforce said:


> I asked my therapist this. He said there would have been zero change, just retaliation. It would have ended the marriage much sooner, which would have been a very good thing.
> Narcissists do not take no for an answer. If it were not for the kids, I would have been gone much sooner.


I agree with your therapist. I have dated men with narcissistic tendencies, and what needed to change, was me. I kept attracting them, and when I had sorted out why (they reminded me of my dad), I could somewhat break the cycle. Then, my dad and I mended fences, and I no longer looked for what I missed with my dad...in other men. It's not everyone's story, but that's mine. Breaking up with a narcissist can be just as difficult as being with them. lol They're hard to break free from! 😩


----------



## Woundidwife

There was a virtual tour of our home yesterday also. Not sure which one, but one of the showings will result in an offer early next week. 😁. I am hoping both are interested and a bidding war breaks out! 👍

I am staying in a temporary place that costs more than I wanted to pay, ($800 for just this month!) and I have not requested “spousal support” because I am not trying to stir the hornets’ nest, so it is a small price for my sanity. I now have breathing room to find another more-permanent-temporary-place until I can get proceeds from our house (soon, God willing!) to use as a down payment on a house I actually like. Finding a house I like has been hard…there are not many places on the market and many of the ones that are, are priced around my max budget…and usually appear to need big repairs (roof!). I don’t really want to start from scratch. I want a move-in-ready house. So I am still looking. 

I am also car shopping. Although I CAN afford to keep my beloved car, it would be stupid to max myself out that way. This was a VERY tough decision…I love this car and it has been discontinued! However I will find something much cheaper and better on gas to save me money all around. So there’s that, too. 

Since my STBX came looking for me, the diarrhea and anxiety have come back with a vengeance. I finally feel a little better this morning…not stressed and no diarrhea yet today. (Knock on wood!) 

I have been to my house twice when he was not there to get most of my clothes and some comfort items. I was really afraid he would do something vindictive and ruin something of mine or do something to sabotage the house sale, (retaliation has always been one of his top go-to anger behaviors). but if that happens, it should come out of his half of what is expected—what has already been written as the value of our home. So I should be safe there. I just couldn’t stay there and let him control me any longer—even if the only control HE THOUGHT IT WAS was KEEPING ME THERE against my will. I just COULD NOT stay. My health has suffered long enough.

So I think I am in a good place. I need to go buy some portable hanging racks for my clothes today…this place doesn’t really have enough closet space. Again, a small price to pay for breathing easier!


----------



## Not

With your body reacting to him like that I’m really concerned. Our bodies are such intelligent machines, often telling us more than we care to face. Please be safe WW.


----------



## *Deidre*

I echo Not. But, you are doing really well WW, considering all you’re going through. Praying for you. 🙏


----------



## Megaforce

Yes, stay put. FWIW, I rented for a while then bought a condo. I bought a used Prius. Gets 55 miles a gallon. Very nice car. Dependable. 
Interesting that you know he is very retaliatory. Retaliation is the excuse he used for cheating in the first place.
Maybe your adult kids can speak to him about the importance of leaving you alone.


----------



## Openminded

If your reaction to what he does, and might do, is that strong then you shouldn’t for a moment ever have considered reconciling with him. I can’t imagine trying to live with someone who would cause me to feel that way. You’re worth much more than that.


----------



## lifeistooshort

I have IBS and my stomach hurt so much the last year of my marriage that I saw a specialist. After my blood work came back fine he suggested I monitor which foods bothered me.

Turned out my biggest issue wasn't food...it was my phony, nasty, passive aggressive now ex. Once I moved out I felt a thousand times better.


----------



## Diana7

lifeistooshort said:


> I have IBS and my stomach hurt so much the last year of my marriage that I saw a specialist. After my blood work came back fine he suggested I monitor which foods bothered me.
> 
> Turned out my biggest issue wasn't food...it was my phony, nasty, passive aggressive now ex. Once I moved out I felt a thousand times better.


Yes IBS can very much be stress related .


----------



## Not

Stress is a ***** on the body. During my divorce I began breaking out in hives and that kick started a bout of hives that lasted about 2 years. Thank gawd for anti histamines!


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> There was a virtual tour of our home yesterday also. Not sure which one, but one of the showings will result in an offer early next week. 😁. I am hoping both are interested and a bidding war breaks out! 👍
> 
> I am staying in a temporary place that costs more than I wanted to pay, ($800 for just this month!) and I have not requested “spousal support” because I am not trying to stir the hornets’ nest, so it is a small price for my sanity. I now have breathing room to find another more-permanent-temporary-place until I can get proceeds from our house (soon, God willing!) to use as a down payment on a house I actually like. Finding a house I like has been hard…there are not many places on the market and many of the ones that are, are priced around my max budget…and usually appear to need big repairs (roof!). I don’t really want to start from scratch. I want a move-in-ready house. So I am still looking.
> 
> I am also car shopping. Although I CAN afford to keep my beloved car, it would be stupid to max myself out that way. This was a VERY tough decision…I love this car and it has been discontinued! However I will find something much cheaper and better on gas to save me money all around. So there’s that, too.
> 
> Since my STBX came looking for me, the diarrhea and anxiety have come back with a vengeance. I finally feel a little better this morning…not stressed and no diarrhea yet today. (Knock on wood!)
> 
> I have been to my house twice when he was not there to get most of my clothes and some comfort items. I was really afraid he would do something vindictive and ruin something of mine or do something to sabotage the house sale, (retaliation has always been one of his top go-to anger behaviors). but if that happens, it should come out of his half of what is expected—what has already been written as the value of our home. So I should be safe there. I just couldn’t stay there and let him control me any longer—even if the only control HE THOUGHT IT WAS was KEEPING ME THERE against my will. I just COULD NOT stay. My health has suffered long enough.
> 
> So I think I am in a good place. I need to go buy some portable hanging racks for my clothes today…this place doesn’t really have enough closet space. Again, a small price to pay for breathing easier!


Congrats on taking these concrete steps forward. Its a lot of effort Im sure, all in the midst of a high stress situation, but with each completed task comes a bit more breathing room. 

Question, when you said that he came looking for you, are you saying hes done something new? Something you havent mentioned before?


----------



## Casual Observer

@Woundidwife - Is there anything your STBX could have done differently, after the affair, that would have allowed for possible reconciliation? Was there some “thing” that he did (after) that made it clear it’s a done deal? I ask because the stress you’ve been going through, the health issues, seem like they should have decreased a bit once you made your decision and had clarity. I’m not suggesting reconciliationr; think I’d be in the once-and-done camp myself! But seems like things have changed pretty quickly, your feelings about your STBX, through this relatively-short thread.

If this is painful to read or comes across as critical, let me k ow and I’ll delete. I’m not in your shoes.


----------



## Jimi007

Casual Observer said:


> @Woundidwife - Is there anything your STBX could have done differently, after the affair, that would have allowed for possible reconciliation? Was there some “thing” that he did (after) that made it clear it’s a done deal? I ask because the stress you’ve been going through, the health issues, seem like they should have decreased a bit once you made your decision and had clarity. I’m not suggesting reconciliationr; think I’d be in the once-and-done camp myself! But seems like things have changed pretty quickly, your feelings about your STBX, through this relatively-short thread.
> 
> If this is painful to read or comes across as critical, let me k ow and I’ll delete. I’m not in your shoes.


I was also wondering the same thing. 

I think it would help others to know

I wonder if he ever would have told her about the ONS if he thought divorce would be the result .


----------



## *Deidre*

From what WW has shared throughout the thread, her husband has emotionally abused her for most of their marriage. He wasn’t this awesome husband who messed up one night. He has shown little to no remorse and went through the motions, feigning like he was working on changing, thinking she would cave by now. He moved back in to their home recently, probably thinking he could wear her down and go back to the way things were.

This isn't a situation where he treated her with respect for the most part throughout their marriage and messed up one night. He thought like everything else, that she’d just let this go because that’s how guys like him think. His confession doesn’t deserve a medal.

I'm somewhat concerned that she will need a restraining order eventually, just a vibe I get. Hopefully not, but the fact that he ''went looking for her'' tells me he's not liking the fact that he can't control her mind anymore. She's thinking about what's best for her, now and that scares a controlling person like him.


----------



## Woundidwife

Casual Observer said:


> @Woundidwife - Is there anything your STBX could have done differently, after the affair, that would have allowed for possible reconciliation? Was there some “thing” that he did (after) that made it clear it’s a done deal? I ask because the stress you’ve been going through, the health issues, seem like they should have decreased a bit once you made your decision and had clarity. I’m not suggesting reconciliationr; think I’d be in the once-and-done camp myself! But seems like things have changed pretty quickly, your feelings about your STBX, through this relatively-short thread.
> 
> If this is painful to read or comes across as critical, let me k ow and I’ll delete. I’m not in your shoes.


In truth, I was so disgusted by the ONS, I NEVER truly considered reconciliation. I told him I would TRY, and though I cannot explain why, I DID TRY and I did it FOR HIS SAKE. 

I cannot live with infidelity. No matter what the circumstances. Nothing has changed—except that I no longer care if he reads the way I really feel…and he WAS ACTIVELY following this thread.


----------



## Megaforce

I really think this way of viewing it is very healthy and the norm. We get plenty of bogus stats about the % of marriages that remain intact after cheating. These claimed statistics seem to originate, many times, from an author selling a book on reconciliation or a website looking to make money from its pay for reconciliation services. 

Just stop and think about the mental,gymnastics one has to do in the face of very concrete evidence that one's spouse does not love him or her exclusively and was willing to risk your physical health , not to mention our sense of security and your self esteem.
One woman therapist I corresponded with told me that her betrayed clients that recover the fastest and most completely are the ones with very firm boundaries where cheating is always a dealbreaker. 
My own therapist, who counseled couples where there had been cheating told me that, at most, 10% stay together. 

Your husband, the belittler, has lied his ass off in this thing. You will be better off without him.


----------



## oldshirt

Woundidwife said:


> Since my STBX came looking for me, the diarrhea and anxiety have come back with a vengeance. I finally feel a little better this morning…not stressed and no diarrhea yet today. (Knock on wood!)
> 
> I have been to my house twice when he was not there to get most of my clothes and some comfort items. I was really afraid he would do something vindictive and ruin something of mine or do something to sabotage the house sale, (retaliation has always been one of his top go-to anger behaviors). but if that happens, it should come out of his half of what is expected—what has already been written as the value of our home. So I should be safe there. I just couldn’t stay there and let him control me any longer—even if the only control HE THOUGHT IT WAS was KEEPING ME THERE against my will. I just COULD NOT stay. My health has suffered long enough.


The more you post, the more it sounds like this never really was a healthy relationship and he never really was a good partner. 

I know once someone has done something bad like cheating, we tend to view them through a more clearer lens and the rose colored glasses come off, But even if my wife were to cheat today, I would never consider her a risk of destroying personal property or doing something to sabotage the house. 

The fact you seriously believe he would do those things is indicative that he is no prince to begin with.


----------



## oldshirt

Megaforce said:


> I really think this way of viewing it is very healthy and the norm. We get plenty of bogus stats about the % of marriages that remain intact after cheating. These claimed statistics seem to originate, many times, from an author selling a book on reconciliation or a website looking to make money from its pay for reconciliation services.


This is what Chump Lady calls the Wreckonciliation Industrial Complex. 

I am sure that in days of yore, many people did remain married despite infidelity but that was probably largely due to finances and the social stigma and even the legal hurdles involved with divorce. 

The lack of divorce is not an indicator of healthy and happy marriage.


----------



## Megaforce

Yup, Gool Ol ' Chumplady. I think I was one of her first 4 or five subscribers. One of her articles way back was a response to something I had sent her.


----------



## TinyTbone

Woundidwife said:


> In truth, I was so disgusted by the ONS, I NEVER truly considered reconciliation. I told him I would TRY, and though I cannot explain why, I DID TRY and I did it FOR HIS SAKE.
> 
> I cannot live with infidelity. Not matter what the circumstances. Nothing has changed—except that I no longer care if he reads the way I really feel…and he WAS ACTIVELY following this thread.


Madam, I've never had to walk in your shoes. If there was an award for courage in the face of extreme adversity and still smiling...I feel you'd be at the top of the list! I have kept up with your thread and have been saddened at your lows and happy at your great emotional breakthroughs! A lot of us could learn from this one saying I've had since my younger days in the Navy..." Character Is defined by doing what's right when no one can see." You show great character and strength and resolve you didn't even know you had. I wish only for the best for you as you boldly move forward into a new day and new life!


----------



## DosEquis

In truth, whether the marriage was perceived as good or not, it only takes one incidence of infidelity to sever the bond....not just the marital bond, but the bond that started *before *the marriage license was inked or rings exchanged....the pair bond.

How many rounds fired center mass does it take to end a life? *One*. Another analogy used is head on collision. Again, *one*. Some BS's have tried to carry on for a while after and have referred to *themselves* as walking dead/zombies while trying to R.

With the amount of devestation an affair causes, its amazing any couple Rs for the rest of their life given that infidelity is a marriage killer. Truly.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Congrats on taking these concrete steps forward. Its a lot of effort Im sure, all in the midst of a high stress situation, but with each completed task comes a bit more breathing room.
> 
> Question, when you said that he came looking for you, are you saying hes done something new? Something you havent mentioned before?


Yes, he was supposed to be giving me space, but ended up ignoring my wishes. He said was for paperwork for his attorney, but I was OUT of the house. Staying with friends and family as places were available. He kept pestering me about coffee, lunch, anything together. Never mentioned paperwork. Just constant texting. I tried to ignore, but he refused to let me alone. Finally, he came looking for me. He searched a neighbor’s property (where my car had been parked) and scared the neighbor into thinking my STBX was really in a murderous (or something crazy at least) state of mind. When I learned of this, I began to fear for my life and had to find a way out immediately. I am out now and in a safe, undisclosed space, working on me.

Better news: I THINK he will leave me alone now and may even be dating! Fingers crossed that he will become happy without me in his life.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> Better news: I THINK he will leave me alone now and may even be dating! Fingers crossed that he will become happy without me in his life.


Well, that didn't take long! Dating? Really? What a loser, triple confirmed.

I'm glad you're safe WW, that update sounded pretty scary for a minute.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Yes, he was supposed to be giving me space, but ended up ignoring my wishes. He said was for paperwork for his attorney, but I was OUT of the house. Staying with friends and family as places were available. He kept pestering me about coffee, lunch, anything together. Never mentioned paperwork. Just constant texting. I tried to ignore, but he refused to let me alone. Finally, he came looking for me. He searched a neighbor’s property (where my car had been parked) and scared the neighbor into thinking my STBX was really in a murderous (or something crazy at least) state of mind. When I learned of this, I began to fear for my life and had to find a way out immediately. I am out now and in a safe, undisclosed space, working on me.
> 
> Better news: I THINK he will leave me alone now and may even be dating! Fingers crossed that he will become happy without me in his life.


Thanks for clarifying. Wow, searching a neighbors property and alarming them (of course it would)? Yeh, thats unhinged behavior. Glad you are safe and sound in your new locale. 

Be well Ma'am. Hope you keep posting.


----------



## Not

Damn, WW he is off the rails right now. You need to file a report with the police station just to have his most recent actions on record. And tell your employer what's going on. You need to be on guard, even at work. The more people who are aware of the situation, the safer you are. And find a therapist who specializes in domestic violence.

His dating again is not a good sign at all and you hoping it's a good sign is not healthy either. It's extremely dysfunctional on both sides not only because it's too soon but because it doesn't match up with the reality of the situation which is, he's determined to keep controlling you. None of this good or normal or OK especially when looking at how this must look to your kids.

He's dating to get a reaction out of you and when you don't react it's going to further unhinge him. I'm not trying to scare you. You need to be aware of what your looking at so you can be pro-active in protecting yourself.

My last BF couldn't accept my leaving him and stalked me for months. I slept with my gun on my nightstand for most of that time. This is a very real situation with your husband.


----------



## Not

One more thing. You need to document everything so keep posting on here. Lay it all out. You're safe here but should have this thread moved to the private section.


----------



## Woundidwife

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Well, that didn't take long! Dating? Really? What a loser, triple confirmed.
> 
> I'm glad you're safe WW, that update sounded pretty scary for a minute.


It WAS VERY SCARY for a minute there, and I have been ENCOURAGING him to date. My hope was to train his focus on someone else rather than his obsession with me.


----------



## Cynthia

@Woundidwife, have you told your attorney about your husband's behavior? You might be able to get a restraining order. If he does something like that again, please consider it. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> It WAS VERY SCARY for a minute there, and I have been ENCOURAGING him to date. My hope was to train his focus on someone else rather than his obsession with me.


Encouraging him to date is great for you and I'm glad for the relief it provides you. But he's still an ass for doing it.


----------



## *Deidre*

He just shows more and more each day, that he had no intentions of changing. Glad you're looking out for yourself, WW!


----------



## DosEquis

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Encouraging him to date is great for you and I'm glad for the relief it provides you. But he's still an ass for doing it.


Agreed. And, just another confirmation (as if any more were needed), that WW is making the best choice all things considered.

Go WW!


----------



## TXTrini

Wow, I guess he was done trying to play nice. Sorry you're dealing with this Woundidwife, I hope he gives up and leaves you in peace. He sounds like a real entitled turd.

Hope you're doing ok.


----------



## Woundidwife

Cynthia said:


> @Woundidwife, have you told your attorney about your husband's behavior? You might be able to get a restraining order. If he does something like that again, please consider it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I did and I was told to get a protection from abuse order. Since I have moved out, and he doesn’t know where I am, I think I am safe. He has not bothered me much since then (just a text thread here and there), so I have not filed it. Hopefully, I won’t need to at all.


----------



## Woundidwife

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Encouraging him to date is great for you and I'm glad for the relief it provides you. But he's still an ass for doing it.


I think I made an assumption there. He insists he is not dating, but rather spending time with groups of work friends. (One of which is the woman I believe he is or WILL BE dating.)


----------



## Woundidwife

TXTrini said:


> Wow, I guess he was done trying to play nice. Sorry you're dealing with this Woundidwife, I hope he gives up and leaves you in peace. He sounds like a real entitled turd.
> 
> Hope you're doing ok.


Thank you. I am doing as well as I can be. (I think.)

I have a lot of ducks to get in a row…Financials: planning for a new mortgage on my own, house hunting…interim apartment hunting, car shopping…Haven’t spent much time on Christmas. I feel a bit like I got run over by a truck…too much to do, and I feel like I am running out of time! I don’t want to pay another $800 for this place next month, but I haven’t found a different temporary home yet.


----------



## Woundidwife

Thank you all for your support!!

Hopefully my STBX IS moving on. He is definitely dating, though he is lying to me/in denial about it. (He meets with a “group of work friends” at a bar pretty regularly. He sits beside the same woman each time: also calling and texting her all the time—confirmed by his own admission.) I am having trouble figuring out why I even care. I thought I was at the point of “meh”. I am a very jealous person…maybe I still want to own him, even though i want my own and very separate life. I also feel that he should be punished…his own mental anguish and my leaving him are just natural consequences of a series of horrible decisions—not the punishment that I still want to inflict. (Resentment?) I think because I am broken, I also wanted to see who my replacement might be …especially since I never got any closure in regards to the OW. I did see the work buddy. She would be no comparison to me in a beauty contest—that’s for sure, but she is a counselor or psychologist or something, so maybe she can help fix his f-ed up brain and might be really good for him.

I have told him not to screw things up with this one, but he is STILL holding out hope for a future with me, which is really not happening. I just couldn’t live with this infidelity in my face every day—though he keeps telling me how wonderful our lives were together and that I “remembered everything wrong”. (His view is that we had some tough times, but mostly he was good to me—gaslighting at its finest.) You know. Yada, Yada.

I meet with my attorney on Tuesday to see the preliminary financial numbers/paperwork. We’ll see how that goes. My STBX HAD BEEN fairly cooperative, however he now thinks I am going to be “vindictive” (one of HIS finest traits—not mine) and is withholding a letter that could save us time and money in relation to attorneys. The letter states that overtime money acquired during the pandemic does not apply to his final salary for 2020 and 2021, so his base pay, and therefore alimony and his retirement/pension will be very different from the ones I presented though his retirement paperwork to my attorney a month ago. He has been sitting on this letter for a week. He told me about it on Friday…during a phone call, which was interrupted BY MY ATTORNEY’S OFFICE CALLING to tell me that my paperwork was now finished and to subsequently set up my Tuesday appointment to review the FINISHED PAPERWORK. 😡

He is a f-ing idiot. But haven’t we already established that? 

Mentally and emotionally, I am having some tough days. I did a little drinking, but each time, I turn into a blubbering pool of tears. I think I definitely need to avoid that for a while. 

I had a crappy week. I haven’t found another place to rent and I think this one is too expensive, but it worked in an emergency. HE is trying to get me to move back into the house to save me money (my expense since I wanted to leave). Our house had 4 showings, no offers. No showings this week. We are worried that the winter months will be hard to sell and the house may sit until spring…that would become very expensive for me as I am expected to pay in cash and I just don’t have it. I already owe my parents $1,500 for part of the retainer fee and this month’s rent. 

I am typically a VERY POSITIVE and cheerful person, but I must have been putting out some negative vibes this week. For the first time, several co-workers and even one of my bosses asked if I was okay and said I wasn’t my usual self. 

Yesterday, I had lunch with a friend who has been divorced and happily single for 30 years. I had been trying to get ahold of her for about a month, but she is retired and living her best life, so she was traveling quite a bit and was hard to nail down. Time spent with her was very good for me. (We used to work together. She knew the controlling nature of my husband and though she never directly encouraged me to get divorced, she said, “That’s not right,” and “I don’t like the way he treats you,” on many, MANY occasions.)

She told me how happy she was for me and gave me some pointers for surviving this period of time. One thing she suggested was to MAKE MYSELF do one new thing each day: do something out of the ordinary that I wouldn’t normally do. I will try that. She also recommended a book that she said she has and will dig out for me. 

I ordered a divorce survival workbook and an audible book on reclaiming life after heartbreak and divorce. We’ll see. 

My kids will both be home beginning next Monday…but the college one will be home today, so I will go home to spend time with him. I will do my wrapping while I am there. (I completed ALL of my Christmas shopping in one day at a much larger town about an hour from my home—yesterday. Normally I am mostly finished by now with only one stray item or two to pick up…THAT was stressful. The stores were CRAZY BUSY, and I went alone so I could just getter done. (STBX thought we should have done this together!!). Shopping with a friend may have been fun, but It was nice to run my own schedule—however, it was a very long day. I ate a grilled chicken Caesar salad at a sports bar—actually sat at a bar by myself—but no one approached or even looked my way. It was early, (6:30/7:30?) and I certainly didn’t want to go home with anyone, but it might have been nice to have been noticed or talk to someone.

Feeling kind of low nowadays. Gonna go listen to my audiobook and do some cleaning, but I can’t wait to see my kid later today!!


----------



## BootsAndJeans

You have to get to a place of absolute indifferent apathy concerning him. Stop pain shopping. Stop all contact. All communication must be via your lawyer.


----------



## snowbum

Although he says he met a rando. It could have been her. He lied after all.


----------



## *Deidre*

I wish we had ways to fast forward past hard stuff in life. 😔 I think if you move back in, it will be hard for you to stay positive with him around you 24/7. He will drag you down, he will try to convince you to stay, and you may start remembering good times and it will just become so confusing, in my opinion. I know it all takes money but it may be worth the financial struggle so you can have peace of mind and stay resolved, away from him.

I also would shut down conversation where he gets to ramble on about his dating life. It’s designed to eff with your head, no question. So, if it were me, I would just go no contact unless it had to do with the house or divorce. What kind of guy who sincerely wants his marriage back would be dating and flaunting it in front of his wife? Hopefully, this shows you how insincere he is about wanting you back. Just more control games.

It all sounds so challenging right now and you don’t deserve this. But, I believe you will have a way better future with him out of it. Hope you have a better week ahead.


----------



## Woundidwife

snowbum said:


> Although he says he met a rando. It could have been her. He lied after all.


I actually asked him that. She doesn’t fit the description at all. Doesn’t even wear makeup, but again, there WAS deception. ?


----------



## snowbum

The fact he’s actively dating less than a month after trying to get you back means he probably had a plan b. Probably not spur of the moment. What you’ve shared makes him sound like grade A crap. What a tool.


----------



## Openminded

My exH fought the divorce. Once he realized I was serious about it, he was on a dating app within seconds, engaged months before the divorce was final, and married the moment the judge signed the decree. And yet he continued to “wish” things had not played out the way they did. Can’t fix stupid.


----------



## QuietRiot

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you all for your support!!
> 
> Hopefully my STBX IS moving on. He is definitely dating, though he is lying to me/in denial about it. (He meets with a “group of work friends” at a bar pretty regularly. He sits beside the same woman each time: also calling and texting her all the time—confirmed by his own admission.) I am having trouble figuring out why I even care. I thought I was at the point of “meh”. I am a very jealous person…maybe I still want to own him, even though i want my own and very separate life. I also feel that he should be punished…his own mental anguish and my leaving him are just natural consequences of a series of horrible decisions—not the punishment that I still want to inflict. (Resentment?) I think because I am broken, I also wanted to see who my replacement might be …especially since I never got any closure in regards to the OW. I did see the work buddy. She would be no comparison to me in a beauty contest—that’s for sure, but she is a counselor or psychologist or something, so maybe she can help fix his f-ed up brain and might be really good for him.
> 
> I have told him not to screw things up with this one, but he is STILL holding out hope for a future with me, which is really not happening. I just couldn’t live with this infidelity in my face every day—though he keeps telling me how wonderful our lives were together and that I “remembered everything wrong”. (His view is that we had some tough times, but mostly he was good to me—gaslighting at its finest.) You know. Yada, Yada.
> 
> I meet with my attorney on Tuesday to see the preliminary financial numbers/paperwork. We’ll see how that goes. My STBX HAD BEEN fairly cooperative, however he now thinks I am going to be “vindictive” (one of HIS finest traits—not mine) and is withholding a letter that could save us time and money in relation to attorneys. The letter states that overtime money acquired during the pandemic does not apply to his final salary for 2020 and 2021, so his base pay, and therefore alimony and his retirement/pension will be very different from the ones I presented though his retirement paperwork to my attorney a month ago. He has been sitting on this letter for a week. He told me about it on Friday…during a phone call, which was interrupted BY MY ATTORNEY’S OFFICE CALLING to tell me that my paperwork was now finished and to subsequently set up my Tuesday appointment to review the FINISHED PAPERWORK. 😡
> 
> He is a f-ing idiot. But haven’t we already established that?
> 
> Mentally and emotionally, I am having some tough days. I did a little drinking, but each time, I turn into a blubbering pool of tears. I think I definitely need to avoid that for a while.
> 
> I had a crappy week. I haven’t found another place to rent and I think this one is too expensive, but it worked in an emergency. HE is trying to get me to move back into the house to save me money (my expense since I wanted to leave). Our house had 4 showings, no offers. No showings this week. We are worried that the winter months will be hard to sell and the house may sit until spring…that would become very expensive for me as I am expected to pay in cash and I just don’t have it. I already owe my parents $1,500 for part of the retainer fee and this month’s rent.
> 
> I am typically a VERY POSITIVE and cheerful person, but I must have been putting out some negative vibes this week. For the first time, several co-workers and even one of my bosses asked if I was okay and said I wasn’t my usual self.
> 
> Yesterday, I had lunch with a friend who has been divorced and happily single for 30 years. I had been trying to get ahold of her for about a month, but she is retired and living her best life, so she was traveling quite a bit and was hard to nail down. Time spent with her was very good for me. (We used to work together. She knew the controlling nature of my husband and though she never directly encouraged me to get divorced, she said, “That’s not right,” and “I don’t like the way he treats you,” on many, MANY occasions.)
> 
> She told me how happy she was for me and gave me some pointers for surviving this period of time. One thing she suggested was to MAKE MYSELF do one new thing each day: do something out of the ordinary that I wouldn’t normally do. I will try that. She also recommended a book that she said she has and will dig out for me.
> 
> I ordered a divorce survival workbook and an audible book on reclaiming life after heartbreak and divorce. We’ll see.
> 
> My kids will both be home beginning next Monday…but the college one will be home today, so I will go home to spend time with him. I will do my wrapping while I am there. (I completed ALL of my Christmas shopping in one day at a much larger town about an hour from my home—yesterday. Normally I am mostly finished by now with only one stray item or two to pick up…THAT was stressful. The stores were CRAZY BUSY, and I went alone so I could just getter done. (STBX thought we should have done this together!!). Shopping with a friend may have been fun, but It was nice to run my own schedule—however, it was a very long day. I ate a grilled chicken Caesar salad at a sports bar—actually sat at a bar by myself—but no one approached or even looked my way. It was early, (6:30/7:30?) and I certainly didn’t want to go home with anyone, but it might have been nice to have been noticed or talk to someone.
> 
> Feeling kind of low nowadays. Gonna go listen to my audiobook and do some cleaning, but I can’t wait to see my kid later today!!


A lot of times, people believe the process of disconnecting and moving on is like a cliff, you jump off and never look back. For many people, especially those who were in toxic cycles or have unhealthy or dysfunctional attachments, it’s more like a huge length of Velcro. You’re fighting to disconnect every inch and it takes a long time to get to the end. 

These feelings are all normal and justified WW. You are not a robot and you can’t be expected to simply drop out of all the difficult emotions that happen. But it’s helpful to be more of a compassionate observer to your emotions than spiral into the abyss of them. My therapist had to help me greatly with reframing thoughts and ideas into hopeful and helpful ones rather than self destructive and hopeless ones. 

For instance sitting at the bar eating a chicken salad is brave. Absolutely brave for you to even put yourself in that place. That nobody approached you this time isn’t really the point, because it will happen. But that you are courageous enough to even give yourself the opportunity to meet new friends and have conversations with strangers? That’s bravery. 

Let’s reframe the part about feeling jealous or upset about knowing your STBX is dating. How about: isn’t it sad that he threw away an amazing and loyal wife for this? It’s very sad. But your capacity for love and loyalty is going to cause you some discomfort while you get through this process. It doesn’t mean you are broken or damaged, it means you know how to love deeply in the face of challenges. You are growing and healing. It will take time and you will have some times where it hurts. It’s ok to hurt. 

I think a lot of times you’re going to have to view yourself as a friend, someone you would advise if they were telling you the same things you are saying about yourself. What would you tell me if I said I was upset about my STBX dating again? Would you tell me I was broken and messed up?


----------



## TinyTbone

Openminded said:


> My exH fought the divorce. Once he realized I was serious about it, he was on a dating app within seconds, engaged months before the divorce was final, and married the moment the judge signed the decree. And yet he continued to “wish” things had not played out the way they did. Can’t fix stupid.


Seriously the duality of stupid!


----------



## Diana7

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Encouraging him to date is great for you and I'm glad for the relief it provides you. But he's still an ass for doing it.


PLus it may not be safe for anyone he dates right now.


----------



## Woundidwife

QuietRiot said:


> A lot of times, people believe the process of disconnecting and moving on is like a cliff, you jump off and never look back. For many people, especially those who were in toxic cycles or have unhealthy or dysfunctional attachments, it’s more like a huge length of Velcro. You’re fighting to disconnect every inch and it takes a long time to get to the end.
> 
> These feelings are all normal and justified WW. You are not a robot and you can’t be expected to simply drop out of all the difficult emotions that happen. But it’s helpful to be more of a compassionate observer to your emotions than spiral into the abyss of them. My therapist had to help me greatly with reframing thoughts and ideas into hopeful and helpful ones rather than self destructive and hopeless ones.
> 
> For instance sitting at the bar eating a chicken salad is brave. Absolutely brave for you to even put yourself in that place. That nobody approached you this time isn’t really the point, because it will happen. But that you are courageous enough to even give yourself the opportunity to meet new friends and have conversations with strangers? That’s bravery.
> 
> Let’s reframe the part about feeling jealous or upset about knowing your STBX is dating. How about: isn’t it sad that he threw away an amazing and loyal wife for this? It’s very sad. But your capacity for love and loyalty is going to cause you some discomfort while you get through this process. It doesn’t mean you are broken or damaged, it means you know how to love deeply in the face of challenges. You are growing and healing. It will take time and you will have some times where it hurts. It’s ok to hurt.
> 
> I think a lot of times you’re going to have to view yourself as a friend, someone you would advise if they were telling you the same things you are saying about yourself. What would you tell me if I said I was upset about my STBX dating again? Would you tell me I was broken and messed up?


QR,

Wow. That Velcro analogy is SPOT ON. That is exactly how it feels, or maybe a cross between that and the slow removal of a bandaid…slow and painful.

No, I would not tell you that you were broken. I would probably tell you to focus on yourself and to find things to make you happy. Good point there.

Thank you!! ❤ Still going to cry myself to sleep sometimes. Possibly tonight. Probably. Pretty likely, actually. It was one of those days.

I was at our house this evening. Wrapped Christmas gifts with grown college child and STBXH. That was rough. He helped more tonight than ever before. Then thanked me for letting him do that with me. (I also snapped at him a few time and HE took a breather by leaving the house for 10 minutes.). Christmas break is going to be VERY hard. 😔


----------



## Diana7

Woundidwife said:


> QR,
> 
> Wow. That Velcro analogy is SPOT ON. That is exactly how it feels, or maybe a cross between that and the slow removal of a bandaid…slow and painful.
> 
> No, I would not tell you that you were broken. I would probably tell you to focus on yourself and to find things to make you happy. Good point there.
> 
> Thank you!! ❤ Still going to cry myself to sleep sometimes. Possibly tonight. Probably. Pretty likely, actually. It was one of those days.
> 
> I was at our house this evening. Wrapped Christmas gifts with grown college child and STBXH. That was rough. He helped more tonight than ever before. Then thanked me for letting him do that with me. (I also snapped at him a few time and HE took a breather by leaving the house for 10 minutes.). Christmas break is going to be VERY hard. 😔


Why do you need to see him at all?


----------



## Megaforce

First year and holiday season is really tough. I got out and away when I was 52. Things improved gradually over time. Life is peaceful now, for the most part.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you all for your support!!
> 
> Hopefully my STBX IS moving on. He is definitely dating, though he is lying to me/in denial about it. (He meets with a “group of work friends” at a bar pretty regularly. He sits beside the same woman each time: also calling and texting her all the time—confirmed by his own admission.) I am having trouble figuring out why I even care. I thought I was at the point of “meh”. I am a very jealous person…maybe I still want to own him, even though i want my own and very separate life. I also feel that he should be punished…his own mental anguish and my leaving him are just natural consequences of a series of horrible decisions—not the punishment that I still want to inflict. (Resentment?) I think because I am broken, I also wanted to see who my replacement might be …especially since I never got any closure in regards to the OW. I did see the work buddy. She would be no comparison to me in a beauty contest—that’s for sure, but she is a counselor or psychologist or something, so maybe she can help fix his f-ed up brain and might be really good for him.
> 
> I have told him not to screw things up with this one, but he is STILL holding out hope for a future with me, which is really not happening. I just couldn’t live with this infidelity in my face every day—though he keeps telling me how wonderful our lives were together and that I “remembered everything wrong”. (His view is that we had some tough times, but mostly he was good to me—gaslighting at its finest.) You know. Yada, Yada.
> 
> I meet with my attorney on Tuesday to see the preliminary financial numbers/paperwork. We’ll see how that goes. My STBX HAD BEEN fairly cooperative, however he now thinks I am going to be “vindictive” (one of HIS finest traits—not mine) and is withholding a letter that could save us time and money in relation to attorneys. The letter states that overtime money acquired during the pandemic does not apply to his final salary for 2020 and 2021, so his base pay, and therefore alimony and his retirement/pension will be very different from the ones I presented though his retirement paperwork to my attorney a month ago. He has been sitting on this letter for a week. He told me about it on Friday…during a phone call, which was interrupted BY MY ATTORNEY’S OFFICE CALLING to tell me that my paperwork was now finished and to subsequently set up my Tuesday appointment to review the FINISHED PAPERWORK. 😡
> 
> He is a f-ing idiot. But haven’t we already established that?
> 
> Mentally and emotionally, I am having some tough days. I did a little drinking, but each time, I turn into a blubbering pool of tears. I think I definitely need to avoid that for a while.
> 
> I had a crappy week. I haven’t found another place to rent and I think this one is too expensive, but it worked in an emergency. HE is trying to get me to move back into the house to save me money (my expense since I wanted to leave). Our house had 4 showings, no offers. No showings this week. We are worried that the winter months will be hard to sell and the house may sit until spring…that would become very expensive for me as I am expected to pay in cash and I just don’t have it. I already owe my parents $1,500 for part of the retainer fee and this month’s rent.
> 
> I am typically a VERY POSITIVE and cheerful person, but I must have been putting out some negative vibes this week. For the first time, several co-workers and even one of my bosses asked if I was okay and said I wasn’t my usual self.
> 
> Yesterday, I had lunch with a friend who has been divorced and happily single for 30 years. I had been trying to get ahold of her for about a month, but she is retired and living her best life, so she was traveling quite a bit and was hard to nail down. Time spent with her was very good for me. (We used to work together. She knew the controlling nature of my husband and though she never directly encouraged me to get divorced, she said, “That’s not right,” and “I don’t like the way he treats you,” on many, MANY occasions.)
> 
> She told me how happy she was for me and gave me some pointers for surviving this period of time. One thing she suggested was to MAKE MYSELF do one new thing each day: do something out of the ordinary that I wouldn’t normally do. I will try that. She also recommended a book that she said she has and will dig out for me.
> 
> I ordered a divorce survival workbook and an audible book on reclaiming life after heartbreak and divorce. We’ll see.
> 
> My kids will both be home beginning next Monday…but the college one will be home today, so I will go home to spend time with him. I will do my wrapping while I am there. (I completed ALL of my Christmas shopping in one day at a much larger town about an hour from my home—yesterday. Normally I am mostly finished by now with only one stray item or two to pick up…THAT was stressful. The stores were CRAZY BUSY, and I went alone so I could just getter done. (STBX thought we should have done this together!!). Shopping with a friend may have been fun, but It was nice to run my own schedule—however, it was a very long day. I ate a grilled chicken Caesar salad at a sports bar—actually sat at a bar by myself—but no one approached or even looked my way. It was early, (6:30/7:30?) and I certainly didn’t want to go home with anyone, but it might have been nice to have been noticed or talk to someone.
> 
> Feeling kind of low nowadays. Gonna go listen to my audiobook and do some cleaning, but I can’t wait to see my kid later today!!


Hey WW. Just checked back in and read your most recent installments. So sorry for all the pain and angst you are experiencing. Im sure the Holidays are just acting like a magnifier (they do for many in like situations).

Look, I could go on about not fixating on STBXH, about getting space, about living your own life right now, but you know what? All youve described is part of the journey out of his infidelity. Its called the "shyt sandwich" by many for very good reasons, that being, there are no good choices left, just the lesser of the "evils". And it sucks. Big time. It will continue to suck for a while. 

I just had this discussion with another individual working through infidelity fall out. That restoration/healing from the A(affair)-bomb is a life long incremental journey that will have many setbacks but as long as forward progress is being made in the aggregate, thats all that matters (really like the "one new thing every day" suggestion btw). Do your best to cultivate a "30,000 foot view" of your life, like you are peering in on someone elses life....3rd person like. It can help you cultivate a "long game" view of the rest of your life. Ive even heard of BSs journaling in the 3rd person, as if they were writing about someone else, someone they know REALLY well, in order to engender this mindset. Just a thought.

I think that getting past the holidays with a semblence of emotional stability will be a BIG achievement right now. The next big hurdle will be, as youve described, finalizing the divorce. Blech at best, but you will make it through, just as your good friend has and is now enjoying a new life, albeit she is many years out.

Challenges may abound, but so does your determination. Shytty times will ebb and flow, but this particular variety will begin to fade. I do hope you can post in a years time and reflect on how far youve come. It may not seem it now cause youre in the "trenches" but youve come far already.

As always, strength and continued clarity to you Ma'am.


----------



## Not

WW, your world as you've known it imploded just 3 1/2 months ago. 3 1/2 months versus over 20 years with this man. You're supposed to be an absolute mess. So, as you cry yourself to sleep tell yourself that doing so is normal and right and that while it sucks buttermilk it means that it hurts because YOU were genuine and always did right by him. That is a GOOD thing and it's something that will carry you far in future relationships.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Woundidwife said:


> I did see the work buddy. She would be no comparison to me in a beauty contest—that’s for sure, but she is a *counselor or psychologist or something, so maybe she can help fix his f-ed up brain *and might be really good for him.


 Not sure I'd hold my breath (although it shouldn't matter to you at all). There are PLENTY of counselors, psychologists and psychiatrists that are F-ed up like a football bat.


----------



## TXTrini

Woundid, you're not broken, or abnormal in ANY way. Like @DosEquis said, this is part and parcel of infidelity and part of the grieving process. We've ALL been there, felt like absolute **** and kept going on in faith that things would get better, that we'd get stronger, and eventually it all happened. 

You're a smart, determined lady, you will feel better about this soon. It may not feel that way now, but keep in mind nothing happens overnight, and you've been doing all the right things (within your control) to improve your life. It's going to suck for a while, the firsts are brutal. But, there's always someone on here, so come and post. Feel free to private message me if you're feeling too exposed, or just need a 1 on 1. One of the best things that came out of my ex's cheating was coming on here, meeting wonderful people, some of whom have gone to form close friendships I will always treasure.

It's going to be ok Woundid, you're not alone.


----------



## Woundidwife

Diana7,
Without giving too much identifying information, my grown children both have job responsibilities (even the one in college) that limit their time at home. (Sometimes even in this state). For the sake of my children, I am not planning to uproot their lives or expect them to split their time at home…For this Christmas at least. I am not even living close enough to make anything convenient for them right now.


----------



## Megaforce

I was trying cases during all that time. I was on automatic pilot. Won every one. Would cry in the bathroom on breaks.
Took Xanax, too. Broke par on the golf course a lot as It calmed me so much. Head pro asked me to give lessons for him. That was a lifesaver. Tried qualifying for the Senior US Open twice.
Still, I was a mess for a couple years. Outside activities really helped. Started lifting weights, too.


----------



## Woundidwife

Megaforce,
Yes. Outside activities. I need a lot of those. Too cold to do literal outside activities right now, but outside of my normal life maybe. Expand my comfort zone a little.

Not taking anything to sleep or for anxiety right now, and apparently I am not holding myself together as well as I thought. I have been asked several times this week if I am okay and was told that I was “not my usual, cheerful” self by three different coworkers…and my direct supervising boss—who determined this by voice alone within a 5 second phone call. 

I am trying, but this is ridiculously hard. All of it. 😔


----------



## UAArchangel

Woundidwife said:


> Megaforce,
> Yes. Outside activities. I need a lot of those. Too cold to do literal outside activities right now, but outside of my normal life maybe. Expand my comfort zone a little.
> 
> Not taking anything to sleep or for anxiety right now, and apparently I am not holding myself together as well as I thought. I have been asked several times this week if I am okay and was told that I was “not my usual, cheerful” self by three different coworkers…and my direct supervising boss—who determined this by voice alone within a 5 second phone call.
> 
> I am trying, but this is ridiculously hard. All of it. 😔


You're doing pretty good.


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> Megaforce,
> Yes. Outside activities. I need a lot of those. Too cold to do literal outside activities right now, but outside of my normal life maybe. Expand my comfort zone a little.
> 
> Not taking anything to sleep or for anxiety right now, and apparently I am not holding myself together as well as I thought. I have been asked several times this week if I am okay and was told that I was “not my usual, cheerful” self by three different coworkers…and my direct supervising boss—who determined this by voice alone within a 5 second phone call.
> 
> I am trying, but this is ridiculously hard. All of it. 😔


Why do you think you need to be together with no help? You're hurting and you were a loyal wife, despite everything. There's no shame in asking your doctor for help if it makes your life easier for a while, it's not a contest there'll be no awards for how much you can tolerate. 

You'd be surprised what people can see/sense. I had doctors who see me once or twice a year ask me what was going on in my life and I'm usually pretty inscrutable unless I feel like sharing. It was awkward at first, because I felt ashamed to be cheated on, but once I started being honest, it was so freeing. I was able to let go of what I felt was a stigma of not being good enough.

Maybe you're simply trying too hard. It's ok to need help sometimes, Woundid. Ask for it, you'll be surprised how much people care and want to help you.


----------



## Cynthia

You don't need to try to appear "normal." As long as you're not moping around dramatically while at work, you're fine. You don't need to explain yourself either. It's normal for you not to be cheerful right now and it's okay not to get into personal details. You could tell your boss that you have some stressful life circumstances going on, but you're handling it and it hasn't effected your work. 

Honestly, this kind of trauma can change you forever. You may never go back to how you were. This doesn't mean you'll feel rotten forever, just that life changes people over time and circumstances. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Affaircare

@Woundidwife ,

I'll just share with you that during my divorce, I told my boss I was going through a divorce--not to talk smack or whatnot, but because if people don't know what's happening, they might wonder what was "off" about me. I figured (correctly) that people somewhat understand "a divorce" and recognize you are still the vast majority there and okay and productive, but that a piece of you is "off." It's kind of like a person who had a family member pass away. You can understand they are there and doing their job...but they might have moments and be a little "off." 

Likewise, I spoke to my doctor because I had to do STD tests (UGH!!)...and doc asked if I wanted anything for sleep or depression. Well, I tend to take a more natural approach, so I said my plan was to take nothing but if I did decide I needed something, I didn't want drugs. I ended up using St. John's Wort for about 3 months and just a sleepytime tea at night. I felt better about that approach because it was more herbal, and yet I did it in consultation with a doctor so the doc could keep an eye on me. For me the St. John's Wort did not make me "high" or make the pain go away, but it did feel like it took the edge off so that the heartache was a bit less intense. I also think it worked well for me because I have ADD and it can treat that as well! Anyway, my point is that I did talk to a doc and did have them keep an eye on me, but I also still addressed the situation in the way in which I felt comfortable. I do not like to just be handed a pill, but herbs...or tea...that did work for me.


----------



## Woundidwife

I did tell my 3 supervisors what was going on about a month ago. (It was the first time that I dropped the ball. It was something minor, but I missed a deadline—realizing it at the meeting where things were presented, and I felt horrible.). I figured I’d better let them know, but I also told them not to give me any slack. My job has been a life-preserver while I have been drowning in an ocean of sh!t. They were all very supportive and do check in on me from time to time, which I really appreciate. 

I was also 10 minutes late one day maybe 2 weeks ago and called in on my way to make sure my first duties of the day were covered…no way to pretend it didn’t happen. I, of course, ratted myself out to two of my bosses and they were both very understanding. They both knew that I had recently moved out and have been living out of boxes. Both said, “You called ahead, and it was ‘pre-approved’. [wink, wink…completely untrue] Don’t worry about it.” Of course, I worried about it and have been trying to get back to being at least 20 minutes early each day. My commute is actually a little bit longer now…by about 7 minutes more compared to what I could almost do if conditions were right from my house…

I spoke to my attorney yesterday. He was appalled that my STBXH is the one in the house and said this is “all backwards”. I agree, but I can’t get him out, so here I am—currently paying $800 a month for peace of mind and peace and quiet.


----------



## DosEquis

WW, I want to give you 1000 cc's of encouragement right now. I know you dont necessarily *feel* this way but youve done so very very well in the face of the hell that has been unleashed on your life by your stbxh. In spite of all of it, you are doing life, maybe not up to your prior expectations of yourself certainly, but you *are* doing it. Youre putting one foot in front of the other, getting on with a daily routine, going to work, holding yourself accountable for your performance which shows great integrity on your part (no surprise here). You are allowed some stumbles along the way. I affirm telling your bosses what you are dealing with right now, not as any kind of cop out, but as a "force majeure" with which you were blindsided. If they have any savvy at all (and it sounds like they certainly do), they will understand *and *may be amazed at the fact that you are doing as well as you are. I had an employee just like you, wife had an affair, he divorced her, looked like death warmed over for weeks, was not his vital, overachieving self for quite a while, but you know what? His prior work history had been stellar and was still well within acceptable parameters and I cut him a ton of slack (he told me what was going on and gave me the same kind if "hold me accountable" speech). It took him a while and he eventually got back to about 95% performance capacity within 6-9 months of his divorce and is now at "Katy Bar The Door" level of work and seems very happy (new woman in his life as well).

I say all of that to say, cut yourself some slack please. As Not reminded you:



Not said:


> WW, your world as you've known it imploded just 3 1/2 months ago. 3 1/2 months versus over 20 years with this man. You're supposed to be an absolute mess. So, as you cry yourself to sleep tell yourself that doing so is normal and right and that while it sucks buttermilk it means that it hurts because YOU were genuine and always did right by him. That is a GOOD thing and it's something that will carry you far in future relationships.


Solidarity Ma'am. Pulling for you.


----------



## Woundidwife

Dos Equis,

Excellent points. Gonna toot my own horn here a little bit: First of all , NO-ONE noticed there was anything wrong until the last two weeks or so. 

About a month ago, after signing the divorce notice, I contacted each of my three bosses. All three WERE AMAZED and had no idea I had been coping/dealing with anything for 2 & 1/2 months.

One of the three (we’ll call him Boss #2) is VERY NEW…6 months in maybe—had not seen my work before…HE said I was a force to be reckoned with and, “Well if this was you NOT working to the best of your abilities, I can’t wait to see what 100% looks like!” (Mhm. That is me. SOOO GLAD my reputation preceded me, and I have a strong work ethic!)

I also just returned to a previous work department/building so my new direct supervisor (we’ll call him Boss #1) and I have also never worked together, since he arrived after I had transferred out. He has a year and a half in…whereas I have 21. He speaks highly of me to everyone around me—no direct compliments, but even by way of the other two bosses quite frequently! 😊

The 3rd boss is THE BIG ONE. The supervisor of everyone. When I told him I need to disclose a personal situation, he actually called my desk, took my order, bought and hand delivered lunch to me that day, and sat with me to discuss “whatever I needed”. He told me about his own first failed marriage—similar situation—and said he hoped not to lose a good employee and employee leader over this unfortunate event. He even went so far as to say that he would personally cover my duties if he had to—if I even ever just needed a minute to collect myself!!!

All three told me to just let them know if I ever needed anything at all, and I 100% believe that they meant it. ❤

Sorry folks. Will have to write more tomorrow. Very tired. 3:30 am here!

Thank you for all the support!!


----------



## Harold Demure

Every once in a while I come across threads where the poster shows real integrity, fortitude and courage, Vintage Retro springs immediately to mind. You are most definitely one of these and I can only commend you for the way in which you have handled yourself and this awful situation. The support you get from others on here shows how much you should be proud of yourself. Whatever the cost, you can walk out of this with your head held high and I think most people would agree you will emerge from this to a far brighter future.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Dos Equis,
> 
> Excellent points. Gonna toot my own horn here a little bit: First of all , NO-ONE noticed there was anything wrong until the last two weeks or so.
> 
> About a month ago, after signing the divorce notice, I contacted each of my three bosses. All three WERE AMAZED and had no idea I had been coping/dealing with anything for 2 & 1/2 months.
> 
> One of the three (we’ll call him Boss #2) is VERY NEW…6 months in maybe—had not seen my work before…HE said I was a force to be reckoned with and, “Well if this was you NOT working to the best of your abilities, I can’t wait to see what 100% looks like!” (Mhm. That is me. SOOO GLAD my reputation preceded me, and I have a strong work ethic!)
> 
> I also just returned to a previous work department/building so my new direct supervisor (we’ll call him Boss #1) and I have also never worked together, since he arrived after I had transferred out. He has a year and a half in…whereas I have 21. He speaks highly of me to everyone around me—no direct compliments, but even by way of the other two bosses quite frequently! 😊
> 
> The 3rd boss is THE BIG ONE. The supervisor of everyone. When I told him I need to disclose a personal situation, he actually called my desk, took my order, bought and hand delivered lunch to me that day, and sat with me to discuss “whatever I needed”. He told me about his own first failed marriage—similar situation—and said he hoped not to lose a good employee and employee leader over this unfortunate event. He even went so far as to say that he would personally cover my duties if he had to—if I even ever just needed a minute to collect myself!!!
> 
> All three told me to just let them know if I ever needed anything at all, and I 100% believe that they meant it. ❤
> 
> Sorry folks. Will have to write more tomorrow. Very tired. 3:30 am here!
> 
> Thank you for all the support!!


Fabulous. Thanks for the update. Toot your own horn you should.

Half the battle in times like these is the feeling that it'll never end. Truth is, slowly but surely, you are working your way out from this mess.

Trek on Ma'am. Have a good day.


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## lifeistooshort

WW, why don't you join a running club? I've been running over 30 years and have much experience.....clubs are very welcoming to all ability levels. Some people walk/run, some run slow, and others run faster. Often they will go out for a bite after the workout and its such a great social support. And the exercise is good for you.

Your ex living in the house says a lot about him.


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## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> Megaforce,
> Yes. Outside activities. I need a lot of those. Too cold to do literal outside activities right now, but outside of my normal life maybe. Expand my comfort zone a little.
> 
> Not taking anything to sleep or for anxiety right now, and apparently I am not holding myself together as well as I thought. I have been asked several times this week if I am okay and was told that I was “not my usual, cheerful” self by three different coworkers…and my direct supervising boss—who determined this by voice alone within a 5 second phone call.
> 
> I am trying, but this is ridiculously hard. All of it. 😔


Really hard I went from 190lbs, pretty muscular, to 147 in 2 months. Boss thought I had cancer.
Believe me it does get better with time. Just put one foot in front of the other.
I told my boss, BTW. He cut me slack.


----------



## Not

I poured myself into work during my divorce, it was a sort of saving grace. There was always so much to think about outside of work so being at work was a life saver as it gave me something else to focus on. I was in training for the position I hold now and was working over and above what was expected of me. My life was falling apart so I made my job my priority for achieving perfection. I had to have something positive and successful to hold onto. My dad passed away during this time too. I didn't take anytime off when he passed, I felt that I couldn't stop, I had to keep going.

The mistake I made was, outside of posting on this forum, I wasn't talking to anyone about my problems. I didn't want to burden anyone and I felt I was strong enough to pull through. What I didn't know was the toll it was all taking on my body. About 9 months after my divorce was final and 3 months after I was finally able to move out I had a break down. Our nervous systems aren't built to handle that level of stress for that long. My body gave out. I should have been hospitalized but once again my stubborn self refused to accept any weakness and I pushed through on my own. Another mistake. I still have affects from that break down. When stress levels get high insomnia, panic attacks and hallucinations at night return.

My point in sharing this is....I had never pushed through anything with such strength in my life but I paid a price. I didn't take very good care of myself during the process and I still feel the affects almost five years later. I felt I had no one to lean on but that's because I had been so used to being on my own with no support for so long during my marriage that it had become a rut worn into my brain continually telling me I had no one, a constant feeling of isolation, so I never reached out to anyone. 

What I would tell anyone going through something like this is to lean on others and talk and talk some more. Be weak. Be tearful. Be a blubbering mess. And like someone said to me near the end of my divorce journey "Fail more fear less."


----------



## Not




----------



## Woundidwife

Not said:


> I poured myself into work during my divorce, it was a sort of saving grace. There was always so much to think about outside of work so being at work was a life saver as it gave me something else to focus on. I was in training for the position I hold now and was working over and above what was expected of me. My life was falling apart so I made my job my priority for achieving perfection. I had to have something positive and successful to hold onto. My dad passed away during this time too. I didn't take anytime off when he passed, I felt that I couldn't stop, I had to keep going.
> 
> The mistake I made was, outside of posting on this forum, I wasn't talking to anyone about my problems. I didn't want to burden anyone and I felt I was strong enough to pull through. What I didn't know was the toll it was all taking on my body. About 9 months after my divorce was final and 3 months after I was finally able to move out I had a break down. Our nervous systems aren't built to handle that level of stress for that long. My body gave out. I should have been hospitalized but once again my stubborn self refused to accept any weakness and I pushed through on my own. Another mistake. I still have affects from that break down. When stress levels get high insomnia, panic attacks and hallucinations at night return.
> 
> My point in sharing this is....I had never pushed through anything with such strength in my life but I paid a price. I didn't take very good care of myself during the process and I still feel the affects almost five years later. I felt I had no one to lean on but that's because I had been so used to being on my own with no support for so long during my marriage that it had become a rut worn into my brain continually telling me I had no one, a constant feeling of isolation, so I never reached out to anyone.
> 
> What I would tell anyone going through something like this is to lean on others and talk and talk some more. Be weak. Be tearful. Be a blubbering mess. And like someone said to me near the end of my divorce journey "Fail more fear less."


I hear what you are saying, and I have confided in a few close friends. I AM getting support…but maybe I should get some counseling, too. The [email protected] woman counselor (marriages counselor) I had was only working for the STBX in my opinion, so that didn’t help me as much as I wish it had.

I need to work through this mess…I do feel however that I am stunted in my emotional growth to that when I was married as a teenager. Gotta figure myself out, for sure!


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## Openminded

Marriage counseling definitely doesn’t take the place of individual counseling. I greatly wish that I had done IC before, during and after my divorce. It would have made the process much easier. Instead I toughed it out and paid the price for that.


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## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> I hear what you are saying, and I have confided in a few close friends. I AM getting support…but maybe I should get some counseling, too. The [email protected] woman counselor (marriages counselor) I had was only working for the STBX in my opinion, so that didn’t help me as much as I wish it had.
> 
> I need to work through this mess…I do feel however that I am stunted in my emotional growth to that when I was married as a teenager. Gotta figure myself out, for sure!


Definitely do it. I'm biding time until I can go back myself, I still have some things to deal with. However, I went for a while during the roughest time and it was a lifeline for me. It helped me process a lot of pain and sadness pretty quickly, which was necessary at the time. 

I too had to leave my home and move if only to take control of my life again despite being a wreck physically. It's been a rough 3 years , but lots of great things have happened for me, and I'm sure many will happen for you too. Especially if you let people shoe up for you, it goes a long way into helping you heal the part that doesn't feel good enough.


----------



## Not

Woundidwife said:


> I hear what you are saying, and I have confided in a few close friends. I AM getting support…but maybe I should get some counseling, too. The [email protected] woman counselor (marriages counselor) I had was only working for the STBX in my opinion, so that didn’t help me as much as I wish it had.
> 
> I need to work through this mess…I do feel however that I am stunted in my emotional growth to that when I was married as a teenager. Gotta figure myself out, for sure!



Me too. I was 19. 

I've made some mistakes since my divorce with relationships and there's an element of humiliation to it all because I feel like I should know better now given where I've come from but I'm still learning about myself and figuring things out. I can say I'm proud of how far I've come though. Slow but steady wins the race.


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## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> I hear what you are saying, and I have confided in a few close friends. I AM getting support…but maybe I should get some counseling, too. The [email protected] woman counselor (marriages counselor) I had was only working for the STBX in my opinion, so that didn’t help me as much as I wish it had.
> 
> I need to work through this mess…I do feel however that I am stunted in my emotional growth to that when I was married as a teenager. Gotta figure myself out, for sure!


WW, dont let that bad experience with the marriage counselor dissuade you from getting therapy. Working with a good, experienced therapist *rocks*. Make that investment in your life. You and your future happiness are worth it.


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## Woundidwife

Not said:


> View attachment 94656


Thank you for this. I am working on all of that.


----------



## Woundidwife

I survived day 1 with STBX and grown children. (I did take the minimal anxiety meds. Given to me for sleep/anxiety…which I haven’t used in a while.). STBX is sick and coughing…took meds. and fell asleep early. He also basically cleared out for 2 days—I was here all by myself l, cooking, on Sunday—so I could cook ahead of time for the kids in peace in my own home. That was nice. I did have a STBX specific nightmare, the first night here again though, (I’m staying only as long as my kids are.) which tells me just how uncomfortable I really am here in his presence.


----------



## Harold Demure

Given your concerns about your husband’s potential behaviour, have you thought about setting up a “safe” word with a friend or member of your family that you could include in a telephone conversation or text?

May seem a bit over the top but better safe than sorry.


----------



## Megaforce

Harold Demure said:


> Given your concerns about your husband’s potential behaviour, have you thought about setting up a “safe” word with a friend or member of your family that you could include in a telephone conversation or text?
> 
> May seem a bit over the top but better safe than sorry.


Agree. He sounds unhinged.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> He also basically cleared out for 2 days—I was here all by myself l, cooking, on Sunday—so I could cook ahead of time for the kids in peace in my own home. That was nice.


Glad you were able to have this time alone to do what you wanted without interference from stbxh.

ETA: Blatant attempt to distract you from your uber stressful circumstances 😁....may I ask what you cooked/baked for your kids?


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## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Glad you were able to have this time alone to do what you wanted without interference from stbxh.
> 
> ETA: Blatant attempt to distract you from your uber stressful circumstances 😁....may I ask what you cooked/baked for your kids?


Haha! Everything! 

We have done a lot of non-traditional holiday meals over the years, and so I made ALL of the HOMEMADE favorites (this included new additions of our grown children’s significant others):

Shrimp with a special garlic butter sauce
Pulled pork (Oops! This is the only “as good as homemade”—exception.)
Kick’n chicken venison tenderloin 
Jalepeno poppers (homemade on the halfshell)
Buffalo chicken dip (w cornchips)
Dorito dip 
Spinach dip (w pumpernickel bread)
Mashed potatoes with homemade venison gravy (all homemade)
Spicy spinach and cheese filled mushroom caps
Smoked macaroni and cheese
Sugar cookie cake
Pumpkin pie
Pecan-Rolo pretzels

ETA: Correction on the pulled pork. Sorry for the deception! Lol. I forgot. A local place has THE BEST, and it takes less work to buy it than make it when it tastes the same or better than homemade!


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## Woundidwife

So I am trying to move from my current temporary place to get a different (less distance from my job and more convenient parking) temporary place to stay. I have exhausted ALL of my known and scavenged landlord resources and began calling last resort folks—one of them being what I THOUGHT was a mutual friend. So, earlier in the day on Tuesday, I texted and called the “friend”. Well, it turns out, I guess this person is not a mutual friend as much as my husband’s friend, because right before dinner, MY CALL was returned to my STBX. So no dice there either. I lost my sh!t on my STBX, blaming him for everything in the world—which I am in the habit of doing—with both of my children and a SO present. I almost left to cool down right as dinner was to be served. It was not my best moment. One of my grown children had to talk me down and hug the crazy out of me.

The older of my kids and SO were here for only a limited time… My older child and SO have had two very happy life-announcements for us recently—the last of which came AFTER that dinner. We all are very excited and happy, however, these things also serve to make me sad and even more angry at my STBX (didn’t think that was even possible!) because the future of my life is going to look very different from the way I had always imagined it. My grown child and and SO were worried about telling us these things (because we are not always civil with one another and often arguing) to the point that they considered postponing telling us about their happy announcements. 😔🥲

That grown child and SO left already and our other grown child and I remain here at our house with STBX. (No choice at the moment.) I am/have been enjoying spending time with my child(ren), but the time with the STBX and his access to me is just unbearable sometimes. Today, we paid our mutual bills (house has not sold yet! 😔). He asked me about MY plans for MY vehicle and MY future home finances and tried to “offer his [UNSOLICITED] opinion”. Well, that set me off again. After yelling at him yet again, I wanted to leave—to go back to my safe space, BUT I CAN’T! We have had a beautiful ice storm here. My car was encased, followed by a wind storm and the temperature dropping well below zero and now I can’t even thaw it enough to get my doors open to start the [email protected] thing! The good news is that I was angry enough and serious enough about leaving (stomping out to my car) that he got the point and offered to and did leave for the evening—not to return until he goes to bed. (His vehicle was already thawed as he had driven to work earlier.) This was a huge relief and I am grateful to him for this concession.

I have also been stress eating and have likely put on some serious weight. Yay for me.

Not gonna lie. This. Is. Hard.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

Woundidwife said:


> So I am trying to move from my current temporary place to get a different (less distance from my job and more convenient parking) temporary place to stay. I have exhausted ALL of my known and scavenged landlord resources and began calling last resort folks—one of them being what I THOUGHT was a mutual friend. So, earlier in the day on Tuesday, I texted and called the “friend”. Well, it turns out, I guess this person is not a mutual friend as much as my husband’s friend, because right before dinner, MY CALL was returned to my STBX. So no dice there either. I lost my sh!t on my STBX, blaming him for everything in the world—which I am in the habit of doing—with both of my children and a SO present. I almost left to cool down right as dinner was to be served. It was not my best moment. One of my grown children had to talk me down and hug the crazy out of me.
> 
> The older of my kids and SO were here for only a limited time… My older child and SO have had two very happy life-announcements for us recently—the last of which came AFTER that dinner. We all are very excited and happy, however, these things also serve to make me sad and even more angry at my STBX (didn’t think that was even possible!) because the future of my life is going to look very different from the way I had always imagined it. My grown child and and SO were worried about telling us these things (because we are not always civil with one another and often arguing) to the point that they considered postponing telling us about their happy announcements. 😔🥲
> 
> That grown child and SO left already and our other grown child and I remain here at our house with STBX. (No choice at the moment.) I am/have been enjoying spending time with my child(ren), but the time with the STBX and his access to me is just unbearable sometimes. Today, we paid our mutual bills (house has not sold yet! 😔). He asked me about MY plans for MY vehicle and MY future home finances and tried to “offer his [UNSOLICITED] opinion”. Well, that set me off again. After yelling at him yet again, I wanted to leave—to go back to my safe space, BUT I CAN’T! We have had a beautiful ice storm here. My car was encased, followed by a wind storm and the temperature dropping well below zero and now I can’t even thaw it enough to get my doors open to start the [email protected] thing! The good news is that I was angry enough and serious enough about leaving (stomping out to my car) that he got the point and offered to and did leave for the evening—not to return until he goes to bed. (His vehicle was already thawed as he had driven to work earlier.) I have also been stress eating and have likely put on some serious weight. Yay for me.
> 
> Not gonna lie. This. Is. Hard.


Well that all sucks.. Except for the life-announcements of course. Congratulations on those!

But, unfortunately, it's par for the course. The cost of infidelity is _enormous_. And this time of year it’s multiplied 10 fold.

I think it's great that you are expressing your anger. I'd much rather hear that than to hear how much its eating you and you're being a church mouse about it. Expressing your anger and getting it out is _healthy_ even if it feels like crap later. And even if it's not always the best timing.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You’re doing great. I know it doesn't always feel that way, but you are. You’re tough as nails and it’s clear. Get your place set up and focus on the new normal...you will be just fine.

Merry Christmas WW.


----------



## Openminded

First Holidays are definitely the worst. Everything is different — and sad. I look back now and wonder how I ever got through the Firsts. And I did a lot of pretending that first Christmas to lighten the load for everyone else (excluding dealing with my exH and his new wife, of course) so it would be easier for all but I couldn’t wait for the end of that year. The following year’s holidays (and life in general) were easier. You’ve done much better than I did (and I say that as someone who considers herself to be a very tough cookie).


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## Woundidwife

Thank you for the vote of confidence, BeyondRepair007.

I am sure trying. 

Merry Christmas to you, too!

Openminded,
Thank you for that. I kind of feel like I got run-over by the holidays this year. They crept up on me when I wasn’t looking, and I sure do not feel I was prepared for any of this. I have been so involved in my own survival that I feel like I am missing the big picture with my family members—including my children. It may seem like I am tough, but I know I can do better. I have been there for my 2 younger siblings when they have had life-disasters… I have always been the rock. This is shaking me to the core of who I have always known myself to be!!!


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Haha! Everything!
> 
> We have done a lot of non-traditional holiday meals over the years, and so I made ALL of the HOMEMADE favorites (this included new additions of our grown children’s significant others):
> 
> Shrimp with a special garlic butter sauce
> Pulled pork
> Kick’n chicken venison tenderloin
> Jalepeno poppers (homemade on the halfshell)
> Buffalo chicken dip (w cornchips)
> Dorito dip
> Spinach dip (w pumpernickel bread)
> Mashed potatoes with homemade venison gravy (all homemade)
> Spicy spinach and cheese filled mushroom caps
> Smoked macaroni and cheese
> Sugar cookie cake
> Pumpkin pie
> Pecan-Rolo pretzels


Holy [email protected]!!! That all sounds delicious and I think I gained 5 lbs just reading the list! Bet your family LOVED it!

Good on you WW.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> I have always been the rock. This is shaking me to the core of who I have always known myself to be!!!


See, I relate to this. I play(ed) that role in my family, i.e. strong for everyone else, also, the fixer. I kept that up....until I couldnt and it threw me into a tailspin. I cannot tell you how uncomfortable I was being weak and vulnerable. I HATED it, and to be honest, I still do.

No answers, just that I can relate.

Solidarity WW.


----------



## *Deidre*

It sounds like it’s really tough because you’re having to deal with him more often than you’d like. Has he ever at least shown any remorse for all of this stress he has caused? He sounds so matter-of-fact and you’re stressed out, like he’s just living his life and his life hasn’t been all that affected.

_He_ should be the one to look for a place to live. I’m not in your shoes, I know, but it seems doubly unfair that your life has been turned upside down by him and he continues living in the house and probably couldn’t care less if it ever sells. Sorry, I just feel bad for you. 

I hope you find a good place to live, and that the rest of your holiday season has some peace. A new year is coming, and hopefully that will be brighter for you.


----------



## Jimi007

It sucks to be forced to interact with someone you now hate....At least you blew up at him in front of the kids... Thats a teaching moment for your children. They can see the hurt of infidelity. 

Best wishes , Jimi


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## DosEquis

Just a reminder that the Holidays have brought everything to the fore once more and the wound is very very fresh. Again, half the battle is the feeling that youll never make it through/out and this exposure to him in the context of holiday family gathering with some necessary fake-it-til-you-make-it dynamics on your part while trying to be as loving and attentive Mom as you can must be taxing any emotional reserves that youve built up in the seperation (can't be much in the tank honestly). Soooooo, dont espect a lot of yourself right now. Whatever you you are able to do will have to be enough. This too shall pass. 

Now, on to your smokey mac n cheese.....care to pass along your secret?


----------



## Woundidwife

Well, the easiest thing to address there is the smoked mac and cheese. Make a Kraft of Velveeta pack of mac and cheese with the liquid pouch, but only use half of the pouch. Add in about a cup of cooper cheese (smoked if you have it). We have a friend (his friend actually…I may have to find a new supplier!) who actually smokes cheeses in a smoker. This is the BEST. However, you can also buy liquid smoke and put a few DROPS in to taste. (This can easily be overdone, so keep stirring and checking!) Cooper is the way to go no matter what. Excellent. Even the lactose intolerant ones take tablets and eat it like it is going out of style!!!


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## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Well, the easiest thing to address there is the smoked mac and cheese. Make a Kraft of Velveeta pack of mac and cheese with the liquid pouch, but only use half of the pouch. Add in about a cup of cooper cheese (smoked if you have it). We have a friend (his friend actually…I may have to find a new supplier!) who actually smokes cheeses in a smoker. This is the BEST. However, you can also buy liquid smoke and put a few DROPS in to taste. (This can easily be overdone, so keep stirring and checking!) Cooper is the way to go no matter what. Excellent. Even the lactose intolerant ones take tablets and eat it like it is going out of style!!!


Thanks for the tip... found Cooper cheese online. Question, do you make this entirely on stovetop or do you bake it?

Sounds delicious BTW.


----------



## Woundidwife

Woundidwife said:


> Well, the easiest thing to address there is the smoked mac and cheese. Make a Kraft of Velveeta pack of mac and cheese with the liquid pouch, but only use half of the pouch. Add in about a cup of cooper cheese (smoked if you have it). We have a friend (his friend actually…I may have to find a new supplier!) who actually smokes cheeses in a smoker. This is the BEST. However, you can also buy liquid smoke and put a few DROPS in to taste. (This can easily be overdone, so keep stirring and checking!) Cooper is the way to go no matter what. Excellent. Even the lactose intolerant ones take tablets and eat it like it is going out of style!!!


Entirely stovetop…AND our family also likes a little kick…You can dice up a half a fresh oven roasted or microwaved jalepeno (or more!) to add in. DELICIOUS! (The way my family and I cook and eat, it is no wonder I put on extra weight. I made all of these things ahead to pick at as desired. It was just too easy to repeatedly sit down with a plate or bowl of these ready made, delicious fan favorites!). You can also top when serving with freshly made, crispy crumbled bacon bits…

Also, if you are lucky enough to get some actual smoked cooper, mince the rind and sprinkle it on top of each serving. TO. DIE. FOR. Mmm!


----------



## Woundidwife

*Deidre* said:


> It sounds like it’s really tough because you’re having to deal with him more often than you’d like. Has he ever at least shown any remorse for all of this stress he has caused? He sounds so matter-of-fact and you’re stressed out, like he’s just living his life and his life hasn’t been all that affected.
> 
> _He_ should be the one to look for a place to live. I’m not in your shoes, I know, but it seems doubly unfair that your life has been turned upside down by him and he continues living in the house and probably couldn’t care less if it ever sells. Sorry, I just feel bad for you.
> 
> I hope you find a good place to live, and that the rest of your holiday season has some peace. A new year is coming, and hopefully that will be brighter for you.


I agree, but his position is this: he is still paying the bills, so he should be able to live in the house. The house is a lot of work for one person. I believe I could manage it on my own, but he says he CHOOSES not to and wanted me to live there with him. He did not enjoy living with his family member, and I can safely say that I wouldn’t either. 

He keeps making the point that I don’t HAVE to live somewhere else. He refuses to leave. I choose not to stay. I can’t. Him having access to me all of the time is just too much for me. He wants to occupy my time…long conversations (which sometimes turn into hours long arguments and remind me of why I was already unhappy BEFORE the infidelity), he tries to get in my personal space more than is welcome. I need my space and freedom, which was the point and purpose of the separation. 

Since I made the definitive decision to divorce, it was his opinion that we should live together to save money because the divorce will cost us enough.


----------



## Beach123

Have you consulted an attorney yet?

if you want to move - you don’t need your husbands permission. Just do it.


----------



## UAArchangel

Beach123 said:


> Have you consulted an attorney yet?
> 
> if you want to move - you don’t need your husbands permission. Just do it.


Whomever has the house, at the time of divorce, has the home court advantage.


----------



## Beach123

UAArchangel said:


> Whomever has the house, at the time of divorce, has the home court advantage.


that depends. A visit to an attorney is needed asap.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> I agree, but his position is this: he is still paying the bills, so he should be able to live in the house. The house is a lot of work for one person. I believe I could manage it on my own, but he says he CHOOSES not to and wanted me to live there with him. He did not enjoy living with his family member, and I can safely say that I wouldn’t either.
> 
> He keeps making the point that I don’t HAVE to live somewhere else. He refuses to leave. I choose not to stay. I can’t. Him having access to me all of the time is just too much for me. He wants to occupy my time…long conversations (which sometimes turn into hours long arguments and remind me of why I was already unhappy BEFORE the infidelity), he tries to get in my personal space more than is welcome. I need my space and freedom, which was the point and purpose of the separation.
> 
> Since I made the definitive decision to divorce, it was his opinion that we should live together to save money because the divorce will cost us enough.


He doesnt get that his attempted controlling ways will alienate you more and more and he probably never will get it. If he'd only be the bigger man for once and say, "*Im* the one who killed our marriage so *I* will be the one to exit the marital home," but it sounds like that is a pipe dream.

All you can do is continue to pry the grip of manipulation tactics off of your life. Exhausting Im sure, but you know more than anyone what you are having to deal with in regard to your stbxch and his caustic behavior.

Part of the shyte sandwich is dealing with a stubborn and intractible cs. All part of the entitled mindset.

Insanity.


----------



## Woundidwife

Entitled, yes. He is mostly contrite, but not on this point. He is simply SAD that I feel the need to move out. He can’t really understand why it is so important that I be away from him. 

I have contacted my attorney. He also was shocked that I was the one who moved out, but has just changed the wording so that we will work out who gets what—rather than “the one in possession of the items”. 

I was worried about retaliation when I first moved out at the beginning of December, so I took all of my clothes (even summer stuff) thinking he may just have a bonfire for fun, you know? Thank goodness, he still seems to be contrite and he hasn’t touched any of my remaining possessions that I am aware of. We had nearly two of everything, and I only took one or none of each. He joked that I scalped him. I didn’t find that funny. 

He has been mostly civil when I do return and stay for a night or two when our children were/are there. He vacates our bedroom and lets me have it each time. This means he sleeps in our college student’s bedroom or the basement. When both kids and SO were there, all the kids slept in the basement bedroom together. 

Just being there in my house is uncomfortable for me now. The home I loved it no longer my safe place—unless my STBXH is at work or somewhere else. 

On a more positive note: I played a 4 person only version of Monopoly with my grown kids and one’s SO…They were CHEATING me very badly…If I was distracted (texting our plow man), they did NOT pay me rent if they landed on my property and decided this was a new rule. Even the SO went along with and approved it, but my kids were relentless and I lost horribly. I am competitive and was thusly amicably irritated….I sat out the next game and my STBXH played instead. As a bystander , I tormented the kids…slipped some of their money away from them and made them second guess themselves and their moves to the point where THEY weren’t trusting each other anymore. LOL. They were recounting snd double checking starting spaces…It was funny. We all had a good laugh about it. Here is the interesting part though: I had a moment where I didn’t hate my STBXH or even think about what he had done to me or our lives. I pointed to each of the kids—including the SO—and said, “You are a cheater, you are a cheater, and you are a cheater!” My kids later hugged me and said that was big of me to skip my STBXH when I had the perfect opportunity to call him a cheater. The fact was, I didn’t even think about it. (Or I probably WOULD HAVE! 😂). I did later rejoin the game and make sure that each of them got ripped off with their new squatter’s rent rule—which is NOT how it is written in the rule book, by the way!

ETA: When only our college student is home, STBXH sleeps in the basement, so our college student can sleep in own room.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Entitled, yes. He is mostly contrite, but not on this point. He is simply SAD that I feel the need to move out. He can’t really understand why it is so important that I be away from him.
> 
> I have contacted my attorney. He also was shocked that I was the one who moved out, but has just changed the wording so that we will work out who gets what—rather than “the one in possession of the items”.
> 
> I was worried about retaliation when I first moved out at the beginning of December, so I took al of my clothes (even summer stuff) thinking he may just have a bonfire for fun, you know? Thank goodness, he still seems to be contrite and he hasn’t touched any of my remaining possessions that I am aware of. We had nearly two of everything, and I only took one or none of each. He joked that I scalped him. I didn’t find that funny.
> 
> He has been mostly civil when I do return and stay for a night or two when our children were/are there. He vacates our bedroom and lets me have it each time. This means he sleeps in our college student’s bedroom or the basement. When both kids and SO were there, all the kids slept in the basement bedroom together.
> 
> Just being there in my house is uncomfortable for me now. The home I loved it no longer my safe place—unless my STBXH is at work or somewhere else.
> 
> On a more positive note: I played a 4 person only version of Monopoly with my grown kids and one’s SO…They were CHEATING me very badly…If I was distracted (texting our plow man), they did NOT pay me rent if they landed on my property and decided this was a new rule. Even the SO went along with and approved it, but my kids were relentless and I lost horribly. I am competitive and was thusly amicably irritated….I sat out the next game and my STBXH played instead. As a bystander , I tormented the kids…slipped some of their money away from them and made them second guess themselves and their moves to the point where THEY weren’t trusting each other anymore. LOL. They were recounting snd double checking starting spaces…It was funny. We all had a good laugh about it. Here is the interesting part though: I had a moment where I didn’t hate my STBXH or even think about what he had done to me or our lives. I pointed to each of the kids—including the SO—and said, “You are a cheater, you are a cheater, and you are a cheater!” My kids later hugged me and said that was big of me to skip my STBXH when I had the perfect opportunity to call him a cheater. The fact was, I didn’t even think about it. (Or I probably WOULD HAVE! 😂). I did later rejoin the game and make sure that each of them got ripped off with their new squatter’s rent rule—which is NOT how it is written in the rule book, by the way!


You take the good/decent moments when & where you can get em, right? Glad you could have some fun. Sad that your home has turned into a pain point though.


----------



## Openminded

If he really cannot understand why it’s important that you be away from him then he is not capable of truly understanding the devastation he’s brought upon his family and especially upon you. He’s sad for himself and his life that will never be the same. It’s primarily about him. That’s it.


----------



## snowbum

Why do you care if living at relatives is uncomfortable? He broke your heart without a card in the world and still thinks all should be forgiven. He’s a louse. In his mind what he did shouldn’t even be a concern. He’s entitled.


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## TXTrini

Hey Woundidwife, I'm glad to hear doing well despite the situation. Your H really sounds like an entitled, selfish man completely lacking in empathy, wow. I hope you can get back on track after the holidays and not have everything drag on too long, that sounds draining.


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## DosEquis

Well, you're half way through holiday week WW....how are you holding up?


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## Woundidwife

I am surviving. Thanks for asking.

Getting things better organized at my rental place. Everything is peaceful there at least. Working on replacing my car. Still a good bit of contact. 

Once my car is sold and his vehicle is refinanced, there should be a lot less communication required. (We will sign off of each other’s vehicles and most everything should be separate at that time.). 

I am tired. This has been a LONG holiday break. I will be going to visit my out-of-town friend again and I am looking forward to that, but I just hope I have the energy for it!


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## Woundidwife

I traded my beloved sports car today for a little SUV. I took an enormous kick in the teeth for it, too. Although I had sunk quite a bit of money into it, (because I ordered it and bought it brand new 🤦🏻‍♀️) it was now only worth a little less than I still owed on it. 😡. Wasn’t a problem when I was staying married because I was going to keep it until the wheels fell off, and I had a 0% interest loan!!!!! 

So I financed OVER the price of the used car I bought (at 7%! 🤬), so that I could pay it off and still have a different vehicle—one that will be better on gas, as well as
inconspicuous… with a smaller monthly payment, but for a much longer time of course! Sacrifices!

Tomorrow morning, I go to look at a different rental house. I am hoping this works out for less money than i am paying now. It is closer to my job, so that is a plus. It is also owned by friends of mine, so that is also a plus. (Except for my own rule to never do business with friends…as that rarely ends well. However, desperate times call for desperate measures.). 🤞🏻

I am feeling pretty good mentally, though. I am doing the homework in a divorce workbook as well as still reading some self-help books. 

I am back in my safe space. My younger (college) child is still home, but working frequently at a local restaurant, so not home much. We’ll spend more time together before school starts back up.

I never wound my car out before today (believe it or not) but today, I did! I drove the long way (interstate) to the car dealership and I PASSED EVERYTHING in sight. Boy, was that exhilarating!!! I never even had the speedometer up over 100 before (after owning the car for over a year!), and today I had it at 113 before I scared myself when other cars were in both lanes…LOL. (It had more to go…I can’t remember if it does 120 or 140…) It was a good time. I just wish I had also done the speed test (0-60) and the braking test…not sure exactly what that one does, but the car was equipped with these things. 🤔. Normally I am a nervous wreck who follows all laws and rules, and I am unlucky enough to get caught for whatever rules or laws i break even if I don’t know a rule—I am always the ONLY one to get caught. Not today. I didn’t even care. I blasted Super Freaky Girl by Nicki Minaj (one of my new favorite and highly inappropriate songs) on the upgraded speakers and subwoofer that I paid extra for and barely drove below 90mph. I dared any police officers to pull me over. There were none—for probably the first time in my life—but I was fully prepared with my divorce story and losing my car…💪

I didn’t cry over losing my car. I have been preparing myself for a while now, so I think that is also improvement. 😊👍


----------



## DosEquis

Sorry you had to say goodbye to your sports car after putting it through its paces one last time (I may have chosen some Van Halen for that last ride but to each his or her own 😁). Congratulations to you on taking the necessary next steps to establish your new future. Heres to a far better New Year, 2023 for you WW 🥂


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## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Sorry you had to say goodbye to your sports car after putting it through its paces one last time (I may have chosen some Van Halen for that last ride but to each his or her own 😁). Congratulations to you on taking the necessary next steps to establish your new future. Heres to a far better New Year, 2023 for you WW 🥂


Thank you. 

Happy New Year!


----------



## Rubix Cubed

That sucks about your car.
What was it?

I never saw it in your thread and have always wondered what your argument over the phone was about for him to take such a drastic boneheaded move.


----------



## Woundidwife

Rubix Cubed said:


> That sucks about your car.
> What was it?
> 
> I never saw it in your thread and have always wondered what your argument over the phone was about for him to take such a drastic boneheaded move.


Sorry, I do not want to identify myself on this thread, and by describing my car, that is exactly what could happen. The car was fun and was awesome in my eyes, but not anything notable to most car lovers.

It wasn’t the phone argument—which was the wrong day, I learned later… He was depressed about many other things and apparently didn’t want to be alone in an empty house. He found something to do, but no coworkers or high school classmates. Instead, he found a lot lizard. End of story.

ETA: He didn’t find anyone he knew at his chosen bar.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Woundidwife said:


> It wasn’t the phone argument—which was the wrong day, I learned later… He was depressed about many other things and apparently didn’t want to be alone in an empty house. He found something to do, but no coworkers or high school classmates. Instead, he found a lot lizard. End of story.


 You have my utmost respect for forging through this as you have. It's obvious from your posts here and his moronic decision that he no longer deserves you.


----------



## Woundidwife

Almost forgot to update on my New Years: Currently, I am STILL with my friend in her hometown. (She was disappointed that I couldn’t wait one or two more days to trade my car! 🤣)

For New Year’s Eve, we stayed in, made wings and spicy crackers—with cucumber dip (recipes I brought along…DELICIOUS!), ate homemade cookies, and had some drinks. Her boyfriend, one of her daughters and a daughter’s friend showed up and played Cards Against Humanity with us. It was such a good time! My guts hurt from laughing so much. 😂 

Today we did some shopping at big name hardware stores for her home improvement projects. As I love 2 hours away, she asked me to stay again tonight, and I agreed because neither of us goes back to work until Tuesday…so we will have to practice getting our sorry butts up at regular time tomorrow morning. 😬 She is just now starting the Yellowstone series tonight. (I don’t mind watching it again with her!) Props to my girl-friend! This has all been very good for my mental state. ❤ Great way to start the new year. 😊👍


----------



## Woundidwife

Rubix Cubed said:


> You have my utmost respect for forging through this as you have. It's obvious from your posts here and his moronic decision that he no longer deserves you.


Thank you. I appreciate your support!! ❤


----------



## Not

Woundidwife said:


> Almost forgot to update on my New Years: Currently, I am STILL with my friend in her hometown. (She was disappointed that I couldn’t wait one or two more days to trade my car! 🤣)
> 
> For New Year’s Eve, we stayed in, made wings and spicy crackers—with cucumber dip (recipes I brought along…DELICIOUS!), ate homemade cookies, and had some drinks. Her boyfriend, one of her daughters and a daughter’s friend showed up and played Cards Against Humanity with us. It was such a good time! My guts hurt from laughing so much. 😂
> 
> Today we did some shopping at big name hardware stores for her home improvement projects. As I love 2 hours away, she asked me to stay again tonight, and I agreed because neither of us goes back to work until Tuesday…so we will have to practice getting our sorry butts up at regular time tomorrow morning. 😬 She is just now starting the Yellowstone series tonight. (I don’t mind watching it again with her!) Props to my girl-friend! This has all been very good for my mental state. ❤ Great way to start the new year. 😊👍


My two girls and I will play cards against humanity and make my youngest daughters boyfriend play with us. It’s such a hoot because we embarrass the heck out him every time lol! So much fun! 😁


----------



## Woundidwife

Not said:


> My two girls and I will play cards against humanity and make my youngest daughters boyfriend play with us. It’s such a hoot because we embarrass the heck out him every time lol! So much fun! 😁


Yes! This is one of my favorite games!!! (And that’s probably part of the REASON why). It is embarrassing and hilarious. My friend’s boyfriend wouldn’t play until the two young girls left for their other, later plans, but he did get a chuckle out of watching all four of us girls playing. We convinced him to play and had to invoke Rando (the extra card from a random player for each question). Rando did better than expected, but it ended up that my friend and I tied. A good time was had by all!


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## Cynthia

What's in your cucumber dip?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Not

Woundidwife said:


> Yes! This is one of my favorite games!!! (And that’s probably part of the REASON why). It is embarrassing and hilarious. My friend’s boyfriend wouldn’t play until the two young girls left for their other, later plans, but he did get a chuckle out of watching all four of us girls playing. We convinced him to play and had to invoke Rando (the extra card from a random player for each question). Rando did better than expected, but it ended up that my friend and I tied. A good time was had by all!


Another good one is “That’s What She Said”, Great for kicks and giggles 😁


----------



## Woundidwife

Cynthia said:


> What's in your cucumber dip?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


So, here is the magic of cucumber dip: everyone loves it, but maybe they shouldn’t be told there are cucumbers in it. Maybe just say cooling dip. ? Lol

One of my grown children HATES cucumbers, but LOVES this dip. The other grown child HATES chunks of raw onions but loves the flavor and doesn’t mind them grated into things…

Spicy crackers:
1 & 1/2 cups canola oil
1 dry pouch hidden valley ranch powder
1tbsp. Cayenne powder
1tbsp. Red pepper flake
1tbsp. Onion powder
1tbsp. Garlic powder
Mix all and pour over an ENTIRE BOX of saltine crackers. Stir gently until mostly covered. Repeat every 5-10 minutes or so until all oil is absorbed.

Cucumber dip:
8oz. Cream cheese
2tbsp. Mayo
3/4 cup finely chopped cucumber (peeled)
1 small or 1/2 medium onion grated (more if desired)
Salt & pepper to taste

These are PERFECT together. Hint: I always make a double batch of dip to one full box of Saltines. For those who like a little less heat, the dip goes fast!! (Another option is to maybe half the cayenne or even the red pepper flake, but my family and friends like it best with the original recipe!)

ETA: My neighbor’s husband also HATES cucumbers…tried this dip before she told him there were cucumbers in it and he also JUST LOVES IT! 😊


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## Woundidwife

Not said:


> Another good one is “That’s What She Said”, Great for kicks and giggles 😁


Lol. I will have to check that out!


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Almost forgot to update on my New Years: Currently, I am STILL with my friend in her hometown. (She was disappointed that I couldn’t wait one or two more days to trade my car! 🤣)
> 
> For New Year’s Eve, we stayed in, made wings and spicy crackers—with cucumber dip (recipes I brought along…DELICIOUS!), ate homemade cookies, and had some drinks. Her boyfriend, one of her daughters and a daughter’s friend showed up and played Cards Against Humanity with us. It was such a good time! My guts hurt from laughing so much. 😂
> 
> Today we did some shopping at big name hardware stores for her home improvement projects. As I love 2 hours away, she asked me to stay again tonight, and I agreed because neither of us goes back to work until Tuesday…so we will have to practice getting our sorry butts up at regular time tomorrow morning. 😬 She is just now starting the Yellowstone series tonight. (I don’t mind watching it again with her!) Props to my girl-friend! This has all been very good for my mental state. ❤ Great way to start the new year. 😊👍


Sounds like a great time! Glad you could get away and spend time with a good friend.


----------



## SunCMars

Woundidwife said:


> I traded my beloved sports car today for a little SUV. I took an enormous kick in the teeth for it, too. Although I had sunk quite a bit of money into it, (because I ordered it and bought it brand new 🤦🏻‍♀️) it was now only worth a little less than I still owed on it. 😡. Wasn’t a problem when I was staying married because I was going to keep it until the wheels fell off, and I had a 0% interest loan!!!!!
> 
> So I financed OVER the price of the used car I bought (at 7%! 🤬), so that I could pay it off and still have a different vehicle—one that will be better on gas, as well as
> inconspicuous… with a smaller monthly payment, but for a much longer time of course! Sacrifices!
> 
> Tomorrow morning, I go to look at a different rental house. I am hoping this works out for less money than i am paying now. It is closer to my job, so that is a plus. It is also owned by friends of mine, so that is also a plus. (Except for my own rule to never do business with friends…as that rarely ends well. However, desperate times call for desperate measures.). 🤞🏻
> 
> I am feeling pretty good mentally, though. I am doing the homework in a divorce workbook as well as still reading some self-help books.
> 
> I am back in my safe space. My younger (college) child is still home, but working frequently at a local restaurant, so not home much. We’ll spend more time together before school starts back up.
> 
> I never wound my car out before today (believe it or not) but today, I did! I drove the long way (interstate) to the car dealership and I PASSED EVERYTHING in sight. Boy, was that exhilarating!!! I never even had the speedometer up over 100 before (after owning the car for over a year!), and today I had it at 113 before I scared myself when other cars were in both lanes…LOL. (It had more to go…I can’t remember if it does 120 or 140…) It was a good time. I just wish I had also done the speed test (0-60) and the braking test…not sure exactly what that one does, but the car was equipped with these things. 🤔. Normally I am a nervous wreck who follows all laws and rules, and I am unlucky enough to get caught for whatever rules or laws i break even if I don’t know a rule—I am always the ONLY one to get caught. Not today. I didn’t even care. I blasted Super Freaky Girl by Nicki Minaj (one of my new favorite and highly inappropriate songs) on the upgraded speakers and subwoofer that I paid extra for and barely drove below 90mph. I dared any police officers to pull me over. There were none—for probably the first time in my life—but I was fully prepared with my divorce story and losing my car…💪
> 
> I didn’t cry over losing my car. I have been preparing myself for a while now, so I think that is also improvement. 😊👍


..................................................................

My turbocharged motorcycle will do 160. (This was many years ago!)
I have to back off because my helmet shield was smashing my nose so hard, it bled.

................................................................................................


----------



## SunCMars

My Maserati does185, I lost my license, now I don't drive.


----------



## Woundidwife

SunCMars said:


> My Maserati does185, I lost my license, now I don't drive.


Bahahahah! Thanks for the laugh! Joe Walsh would be pouting with me over the loss of my car, I am certain! 😂


----------



## DosEquis

SunCMars said:


> My Maserati does185, I lost my license, now I don't drive.


Nice reference 😁


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> So, here is the magic of cucumber dip: everyone loves it, but maybe they shouldn’t be told there are cucumbers in it. Maybe just say cooling dip. ? Lol
> 
> One of my grown children HATES cucumbers, but LOVES this dip. The other grown child HATES chunks of raw onionsbut loves the flavor and doesn’t mind them grated into things…
> 
> Spicy crackers:
> 1 & 1/2 cups canola oil
> 1 dry pouch hidden valley ranch powder
> 1tbsp. Cayenne powder
> 1tbsp. Red pepper flake
> 1tbsp. Onion powder
> 1tbsp. Garlic powder
> Mix all and pour over an ENTIRE BOX of saltine crackers. Stir gently until mostly covered. Repeat every 5-10 minutes or so until all oil is absorbed.
> 
> Cucumber dip:
> 8oz. Cream cheese
> 2tbsp. Mayo
> 3/4 cup finely chopped cucumber (peeled)
> 1 small or 1/2 medium onion grated (more if desired)
> Salt & pepper to taste
> 
> These are PERFECT together. Hint: I always make a double batch of dip to one full box of Saltines. For those who like a little less heat, the dip goes fast!! (Another option is to maybe half the cayenne or even the red pepper flake, but my family and friends like it best with the original recipe!)


WW, you are officially torpedoing my New Years resolution 😁


----------



## TXTrini

Hey Woundidwife, I'm glad to see you survived the holidays. The first set of firsts are always the worst, it'll get easier going forward. It sucks that you had to give up your car, but it'll leave room for something else in the future when you're financially sound again. It may not feel like it but you're doing really great. This year is your year!


----------



## Cynthia

Thanks for the recipe. It looks yummy.


----------



## Openminded

I sympathize about the car. I had one I greatly loved (and had had several of that type over the years) but I sold it when I got divorced. It wasn’t practical and was expensive to maintain but I loved it anyway. Now cars are just transportation but I’ll always remember how much I enjoyed that car.


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> WW, you are officially torpedoing my New Years resolution 😁


Haha. Sorry! THIS IS EXACTLY why I can’t lose weight in the first place. (I am not fat, just a bit doughy in the middle…) I cook like this ALL the time…. And the STBX and I became quite the culinary duo in our years together to the point where it has sometimes become difficult to enjoy meals in restaurants because we know how to make the dishes better…or at least improve the ones we ordered.


----------



## Woundidwife

TXTrini said:


> Hey Woundidwife, I'm glad to see you survived the holidays. The first set of firsts are always the worst, it'll get easier going forward. It sucks that you had to give up your car, but it'll leave room for something else in the future when you're financially sound again. It may not feel like it but you're doing really great. This year is your year!


Thank you. I hope this is my year!! I surely couldn’t endure another one like this past one.


----------



## Megaforce

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you. I hope this is my year!! I surely couldn’t endure another one like this past one.


You will get better. You still have lots of life ahead. I got out at 52. The last 17 years got better and better. Of course, life still has heartbreak and hardships. It does for everyone.
But, you really do not want to continue with someone you cannot trust. That is agony.


----------



## DosEquis

Now that you are moving on into a new life in the new year, just a word about compartmentalizing. Compartmentalizing gets a bad rap as its misused and abused as a tool for cheaters, BUT, for recovery purposes compartmentalizing and the principle of displacement (filling your life with other positive activities and relationships), can be *very* helpful. Walling off parts of your mind & thought life with understandings like "_I will deal with that later_" along with thinking and behavior modification tools can be helpful (some use a rubber band on the wrist which they snap whenever their mind wanders into no mans land). Encouraging notes to yourself placed around your living space can serve as great positive reinforcement tools (had a brutal surgery last year and my W tape encouraging notes all around the house...they were a lifeline in my recovery as I got really depressed over the slow progress of my healing). 

All of this along with therapy and continuing to read and grow through your recovery can grease the wheels of progess. I have this feeling that at the end of 2023 you wont recognize yourself (in a good way) and will look back on this painful chapter as if looking at a faded vision in the rearview as you continue to move forward.

One day at a time WW.

Happy Tuesday.


----------



## Woundidwife

Thank you.

I think I do a good bit of compartmentalization on the regular. A good portion of my job requires 100% mental engagement and I couldn’t work without it. I think my job has actually been a life-saver for me.

Nowadays, I feel a wave of sadness, put on an appropriately miserable song, (I have made what I named my “healing playlist”—129 songs spanning decades full of: loss, hopeful love, cheating, our actual couple song, apologizing ones he sent me when I was trying to reconcile, single & powerful women songs etc. This includes everything from Dolly Parton’s Jolene to Poison’s Every Rose Has its Thorn, Culture Club’s Do You Really Want to Hurt Me and The Eagles’ Lying Eyes to Beyonce’s Single Ladies, oh and of course a whole album of Adele’s beautiful and mournful wail-alongs!), immerse myself in it and cry through it, then put on an upbeat one immediately afterwards. I allow myself to REALLY FEEL my feelings, but also do NOT allow myself to wallow in them. This generally boosts my mood and works out some of my demons. On occasion, I listen to more than one sad song or on a RARE occasion, I will listen to the whole playlist.

Music has always been important to me and always helps me through the tough times. 😊


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I think I do a good bit of compartmentalization on the regular. A good portion of my job requires 100% mental engagement and I couldn’t work without it. I think my job has actually been a life-saver for me.
> 
> Nowadays, I feel a wave of sadness, put on an appropriately miserable song, (I have made what I named my “healing playlist”—129 songs spanning decades full of: loss, hopeful love, cheating, our actual couple song, apologizing ones he sent me when I was triying to reconcile, single & powerful women songs etc. This includes everything from Dolly Parton’s Jolene to Poison’s Every Rose Has its Thorn, Culture Club’s Do You Really Want to Hurt Me and The Eagles’ Lying Eyes to Beyonce’s Single Ladies, oh and of course a whole album of Adele’s beautiful and mournful wail-alongs!), immerse myself in it and cry through it, then put on an upbeat one immediately afterwards. I allow myself to REALLY FEEL my feelings, but also do NOT allow myself to wallow in them. This generally boosts my mood and works out some of my demons. On occasion, I listen to more than one sad song or on a RARE occasion, I will listen to the whole playlist.
> 
> Music has always been important to me and always helps me through the tough times. 😊


Playlists/music can be very therapeutic for sure. Sounds like, for you, certain songs are also cathartic and let you "vent" your feelings which is also good imo. 

Keep working through it WW. The intensity of the pain, anger and sorrow will pass over time. I think you are doing well atc.

Have a good day ma'am.


----------



## Megaforce

Exercise, gentle exercise at first, helps.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

@Woundidwife

Here's one for your sad/sorrow/starting over playlist.


----------



## Woundidwife

Rubix Cubed,

Thank you for the song. I enjoyed it and added it to my playlist!


----------



## Woundidwife

Megaforce said:


> Exercise, gentle exercise at first, helps.


I have restarted walking after work with a colleague. It has been good for me physically and mentally. She is a good friend with a sympathetic ear. ❤


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> Playlists/music can be very therapeutic for sure. Sounds like, for you, certain songs are also cathartic and let you "vent" your feelings which is also good imo.
> 
> Keep working through it WW. The intensity of the pain, anger and sorrow will pass over time. I think you are doing well atc.
> 
> Have a good day ma'am.


Oh, I “feel” them all and definitely vent, cry and everything in between!!


----------



## Woundidwife

Not sure why, but this week has been especially difficult. Car and bank stuff maybe. STBXCH got a check from his new loan for his vehicle, paid off our old joint loan. Had to stop the autopay on a joint account. All the odds and ends. Even being together for a very short time can be stressful and usually ends up with me getting angry, him saying he didn’t do anything to warrant the anger (which is true in the present moment), and then me feeling bad about it later. 

I had a pretty solid meltdown yesterday. I am not even sure what triggered it…but SEVERAL times I found myself tearing up at work. I was caught once at the end of the day by a co-worker friend. She asked if I was okay and gave me a hug. Then I walked with another coworker and I started crying again. We had already been talking, so she knew I was close to tears. She also gave me a hug. I am thinking I need more cry-time and hugs. Yeah. Yesterday was a crying day. 

Over Christmas, I did try to watch all my favorite tear-jerker movies with a sibling, but one of my dvds was scratched and didn’t play past the opening scenes. It was late and we had also been drinking and neither of us wanted to get up, so we put on Netflix and fell asleep instead. I tried one time since then and I was shocked that I didn’t cry at all during the scenes that I KNOW made me cry in the past. I am not sure if I have changed, if maybe my sensitivity to sad love stories has improved, (I cry during Disney movies…my kids and their SOs laugh and pick on me), or if in comparison to my pain, my favorite movies have become frivolous and not sad enough to make me cry because I know what real pain is. 

I went to dinner and did some shopping with a friend of mine tonight. We ate at a Mexican restaurant (complete with a peach Margarita on the rocks because the ice machine for frozen drinks was down 😡😔), and did some shopping/browsing in some stores in a nearby town. We had a good time and comforted each other. (She has some life stuff going on, too…but who doesn’t?!)

Still not sure, but I think I need to do a lot more crying and receiving a lot more comfort-hugs. At least those things feel real—not like I am just pretending to heal, muddling through my daily life.

I have not been sleeping much. Going to bed early tonight. No alarms. I will get up when I get up.


----------



## Harold Demure

Hi Woundidwife. Lots of virtual comfort hugs coming from this group. I think you have been pretty heroic through all of this.

Couple of songs you may wish to add to your play list - Landslide by Fleetwood Mac and Both Sides Now by Joni Mitchell. Joni’s songs get me every time. Also the album Tapestry by Carole King.


----------



## Cynthia

@Woundidwife, yes, you needed to cry and be comforted. I'm happy that you have people in your life who truly care about you and are there to comfort you. It's important. Don't feel bad about it. You'll be there for suffering people in the future. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## BeyondRepair007

The rollercoaster of emotional highs and lows constantly runs. No triggers needed. The triggers are the extra cliffs we get to walk blindly off of.

It will get better. You did the right thing, cry when you need too. Lean on others when you need too. Forcing yourself to ignore it will only prolong that rollercoaster.


----------



## Woundidwife

Harold Demure said:


> Hi Woundidwife. Lots of virtual comfort hugs coming from this group. I think you have been pretty heroic through all of this.
> 
> Couple of songs you may wish to add to your play list - Landslide by Fleetwood Mac and Both Sides Now by Joni Mitchell. Joni’s songs get me every time. Also the album Tapestry by Carole King.


Wow! I forgot about Landslide. LOVE that song and it is perfect for crying in my situation. (Maybe didn’t realize what the title was…as I am a little bit younger than when that was first released.). I also added a few songs from Tapestry. Sorry about Joni though. That one didn’t do anything for me. Could be because I am familiar with the others… Maybe it will grow on me. ? This genre in general is not usually my type of music—though I do listen to all kinds. (Hiphop, some rap, and 80s are generally my favorites.)

Thank you for the suggestions! 😊


----------



## Woundidwife

Never heard it before now, but I just added “I See Red”. Oh, this song will help with the anger! 😈


----------



## Harold Demure

Glad you liked some of the Tapestry songs. Joni is like marmite 😆. Both these artists were a major part of my teenage years (Old Hippy).

Try a couple of Jim Croce songs. Croce died in a tragic accident aged 30. He wrote Time In A Bottle for his pregnant wife 2 years before his death and the lyrics became even more poignant. Second song is Operator, a song about a man trying to trace a long lost love.

If you want vitriol try The Naturist by Ham Sandwich. Comes across as a jolly little song at first but the opening lines are

Take something from this life
I never wanted, I never wanted to see you smile

The rest of the album, White Fox, is in a similar vein (and no. I have nothing to do with this ban, no advertising here)


----------



## Woundidwife

Harold Demure, I will look into those, but at the moment I feel the need to share some of my progress.

Here is what I currently have been doing (for the last few weeks). I ordered The Divorce Recovery Workbook. I am reading through the chapters and doing the activities. Some of them are painful. The one I am going to discuss now was especially so. I completed it right before Christmas, and it was one of the harder ones I have done yet. The activity was to reflect on the losses that I have or will experience due to the divorce.

Here is the list of losses that I made:

-My future as I knew it
-Financial stability 
-Trust in true fidelity with another human being ever again 
-Belief in marriage (like a protection from abuse order, a piece of paper promises and protects nothing) 
-Unified family life/family dynamics
-Beautiful home (including my unrivaled flowerbeds! 😡)
-The illusion of peace in my life (I was content)
-My dreams for what my retirement would be like
-My dreams of what being a grandparent would look like
-29 years of love and time (2 dating and 27 married)
-My confidence, self-esteem, and sense of self-worth
-My identity of being a wife
-What I thought was a solid relationship 
-My youth
-My belief that good people don’t do bad things
-My belief that people who love you do not intentionally hurt you
-My generally happy personality and ever-present smile

It doesn’t make me cry to read over that list as much anymore, so I feel this is progress.

ETA: (New since originally making the list)
-A man I THOUGHT I knew.
-MY beloved sports CAR!!! 😡
-The large amount of money I lost in trading the car 🤬


----------



## Not




----------



## Not

You’re doing good Woundid. That was a great update. ❤


----------



## Woundidwife

Not said:


> You’re doing good Woundid. That was a great update. ❤


Thank you—I am sure trying, and THANK YOU! That song is a perfect addition to the playlist!!


----------



## Not

This is the last one because it doesn’t feel good to contribute to someone’s depression but I know you’re background so this should fit. It may be to “hard” musically but listen to the words, especially the second verse.


----------



## Harold Demure

The losses you list are identifiable in the here and now but there is no reason why you can not regain the vast majority of them in days/months/years to come. I hope you think you will be able to find happiness, trust, financial stability etc in the future and, if you want, love in a new relationship. They will just be different than you imagined them to be but who is to say what you regain in the future is not better.

For the record, from the way you have dealt with everything thrown at you recently, I think you will make an excellent grandmother when that time comes round.


----------



## DosEquis

Woundidwife said:


> Here is the list of losses that I made:
> 
> -My future as I knew it
> -Financial stability
> -Trust in true fidelity with another human being ever again
> -Belief in marriage (like a protection from abuse order, a piece of paper promises and protects nothing)
> -Unified family life/family dynamics
> -Beautiful home (including my unrivaled flowerbeds! 😡)
> -The illusion of peace in my life (I was content)
> -My dreams for what my retirement would be like
> -My dreams of what being a grandparent would look like
> -29 years of love and time (2 dating and 27 married)
> -My confidence, self-esteem, and sense of self-worth
> -My identity of being a wife
> -What I thought was a solid relationship
> -My youth
> -My belief that good people don’t do bad things
> -My belief that people who love you do not intentionally hurt you
> -My generally happy personality and ever-present smile


(((Woundidwife)))

Your list put a lump in my throat...truly.

Well, catharsis and grieving your losses seem to mark your days currently and I hope that every tear you shed, every sorrowful remembrance will bring you just a little bit closer to lasting and sustainable healing. The human soul is powerful and mysterious and it needs what it needs and heals in its own time.

My occasion-appropriate music repertoire hails from a different generation but when I read your post, this is what came to mind....


----------



## Rus47

Woundidwife said:


> The activity was to reflect on the losses that I have or will experience due to the divorce.


Hopefully there is another activity to list the things you will gain from this sad life chapter. Seems to me you have made tremendous progress toward a bright future in what, three months?


----------



## Woundidwife

DosEquis said:


> (((Woundidwife)))
> 
> Your list put a lump in my throat...truly.
> 
> Well, catharsis and grieving your losses seem to mark your days currently and I hope that every tear you shed, every sorrowful remembrance will bring you just a little bit closer to lasting and sustainable healing. The human soul is powerful and mysterious and it needs what it needs and heals in its own time.
> 
> My occasion-appropriate music repertoire hails from a different generation but when I read your post, this is what came to mind....


Sorry. Didn’t mean to make you sad. It is/was a lot to lose though. We had been together for so long. Too bad he didn’t think of all (OR ANY) of that at the pivotal moment.

I LOVE that song, but I forgot about it. I added it this morning. My mom has always loved Fleetwood Mac! (She loves classic rock and 80s hair-bands more, though. Lol)


----------



## Woundidwife

Rus47 said:


> Hopefully there is another activity to list the things you will gain from this sad life chapter. Seems to me you have made tremendous progress toward a bright future in what, three months?


I bet there is. Didn’t get there yet, and I am going in order. Trying to do things the right way—WHICH I ALWAYS DO, but _some people_ don’t…which is how I got into this situation in the first place. 

Okay. Done venting. Sorry. Definitely still some anger just below the surface. The good news though is that I have NEVER unleashed it on any undeserving individuals. I save it all up for when I get to speak to my STBXCH. I actually TRY not to dump it on him either, but it never seems to work that way! Oh well. Couldn’t happen to a better person. 🤷🏻‍♀️

It has been 4 & 1/2 months since my D-day. I didn’t join TAM until I had already struggled mentally on my own for about 3 weeks…reading posts of those who walked in these shoes before me.


----------



## Woundidwife

Harold Demure said:


> The losses you list are identifiable in the here and now but there is no reason why you can not regain the vast majority of them in days/months/years to come. I hope you think you will be able to find happiness, trust, financial stability etc in the future and, if you want, love in a new relationship. They will just be different than you imagined them to be but who is to say what you regain in the future is not better.
> 
> For the record, from the way you have dealt with everything thrown at you recently, I think you will make an excellent grandmother when that time comes round.


Yes, I plan to rebuild all of that. Not 100% sure I will be able to trust anyone again, but I will surely try. 

As for the grandmother…if you had asked me (or anyone who knows me) what kind of grandma I would be 5 months ago, the answer would have matched or maybe even eclipsed your confidence in me. (I am the “fun”, favorite aunt. I am the planner of most to all family gatherings and activities.) That time is inching closer as one of my grown children has imminent plans…I know it will take YEARS for me to fully recover, and I just HOPE and PRAY that I will be ready and in a good headspace in time to be the best grandma I can be and the grandma that my grandchild deserves. ❤💪🥲. 

It kills me to be so unsure of myself, but this pain is very real, and I know I have A LOT more of it to work through before I am (fully) healed.


----------



## Woundidwife

Not said:


> This is the last one because it doesn’t feel good to contribute to someone’s depression but I know you’re background so this should fit. It may be to “hard” musically but listen to the words, especially the second verse.


I will put this one on my list just because I like the upbeat music. I will have to listen to the words more closely, though.

Oh and don’t worry…It isn’t a depression list per se, there are A LOT of angry songs on the list too. 😈


----------



## Harold Demure

I wouldn’t worry about what kind of grandma you are going to be.

From my wife’s and my experience, having grandchildren changes your life even more than having children. Your love for them is unconditional, as will be the love you get back from them.

We found they just dominate your life, thinking etc and will help put everything else in perspective because you will just drop everything else that is going on in your life. You WILL be the grandma you expect/hope to be because you will just not be able to help it, your natural instincts and personality will shine through and, when you are with them, you don’t have the time or energy to be anything but yourself.

I am sorry you are doubting yourself. No one wants to be betrayed but look at the person you are now compared to the person you were when his cheating was revealed. Surely, you must be able to see how well you have dealt with things and how much stronger you are already.

You get a lot of support on here, people like you and that is saying something as TAM can be very harsh and unforgiving. Time to start looking forward, be happier and stronger. You’ve got that first grandma cuddle to look forward to.

Cheesiest song recommendation yet - Grandma, we love you by St Winifred’s School, a hit in the UK from many years ago 😆😆😆😆😆😆


----------



## Woundidwife

Harold Demure said:


> I wouldn’t worry about what kind of grandma you are going to be.
> 
> From my wife’s and my experience, having grandchildren changes your life even more than having children. Your love for them is unconditional, as will be the love you get back from them.
> 
> We found they just dominate your life, thinking etc and will help put everything else in perspective because you will just drop everything else that is going on in your life. You WILL be the grandma you expect/hope to be because you will just not be able to help it, your natural instincts and personality will shine through and, when you are with them, you don’t have the time or energy to be anything but yourself.
> 
> I am sorry you are doubting yourself. No one wants to be betrayed but look at the person you are now compared to the person you were when his cheating was revealed. Surely, you must be able to see how well you have dealt with things and how much stronger you are already.
> 
> You get a lot of support on here, people like you and that is saying something as TAM can be very harsh and unforgiving. Time to start looking forward, be happier and stronger. You’ve got that first grandma cuddle to look forward to.
> 
> Cheesiest song recommendation yet - Grandma, we love you by St Winifred’s School, a hit in the UK from many years ago 😆😆😆😆😆😆



Thank you for your vote of confidence in my grandparenting abilities. 😁 They will be called into action sooner than I will be prepared for, but your encouragement helps me realize that you are right. When it comes down to it, I WILL drop everything and dote on my grandchild(ren).

Good point. I guess I do get a lot of support. ❤. I didn’t really think about it, as I am wallowing in my own stench-filled quagmire, nor did I realize that meant I was liked, but I can say that I definitely appreciate it, as it feels like a much compliment. 😊

I WILL check out the song. Thanks for all the suggestions. 👍


----------



## Woundidwife

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU:
to every poster who still checks back here to support me, listen to me, commiserate with me, encourage me, and advise me. 

I appreciate all of you so much! More than you realize. Some days, this thread is my only support. Today, I CHOSE to sit here on TAM and do nothing but post, read, update, and even offer support to others (in my underdeveloped and unhealed way, but I tried!!) 

For those of you who have been returning for years, I wish to thank you for all the newbies who turn up, frantic, devastated, and desperate for help. You are the glue that holds TAM together and the grease that keeps it moving. You help run the club to which no one wants to belong. Thank you for caring enough to help us. It takes a special kind of person (people!) to make time for helping others in need. WE truly do NEED YOU. 

Thank you again, on behalf of all the (involuntary) newbies. You are irreplaceable. ❤❤❤


----------



## Openminded

I had forgotten that it’s been so recent for you. I reconciled the first time it happened and divorced the second time and never did I move as decisively— and quickly — as you have. Never sell yourself short. You’ve done a great job.

As for being a grandmother, that’s the best part of life IMO. I had turned 50 when my first grandchild was born. They’re all young adults now but without a doubt the first one (my only one for two years) is still very special and always will be. I retired so I could help with them and I saw them almost every day when they were growing up. I took them regularly to the beach and the mountains and art and history and train museums and the zoo and the park and the theatre and the movies and football and basketball and baseball games and every other place I thought they would enjoy. I almost took them with me to Europe once but came to my senses there. It was a wonderful time and basically a full-time job and I wouldn’t change a moment of those years. You have so very, very much to look forward to.


----------



## TXTrini

Woundidwife said:


> Not sure why, but this week has been especially difficult. Car and bank stuff maybe. STBXCH got a check from his new loan for his vehicle, paid off our old joint loan. Had to stop the autopay on a joint account. All the odds and ends. Even being together for a very short time can be stressful and usually ends up with me getting angry, him saying he didn’t do anything to warrant the anger (which is true in the present moment), and then me feeling bad about it later.
> 
> I had a pretty solid meltdown yesterday. I am not even sure what triggered it…but SEVERAL times I found myself tearing up at work. I was caught once at the end of the day by a co-worker friend. She asked if I was okay and gave me a hug. Then I walked with another coworker and I started crying again. We had already been talking, so she knew I was close to tears. She also gave me a hug. I am thinking I need more cry-time and hugs. Yeah. Yesterday was a crying day.
> 
> Over Christmas, I did try to watch all my favorite tear-jerker movies with a sibling, but one of my dvds was scratched and didn’t play past the opening scenes. It was late and we had also been drinking and neither of us wanted to get up, so we put on Netflix and fell asleep instead. I tried one time since then and I was shocked that I didn’t cry at all during the scenes that I KNOW made me cry in the past. I am not sure if I have changed, if maybe my sensitivity to sad love stories has improved, (I cry during Disney movies…my kids and their SOs laugh and pick on me), or if in comparison to my pain, my favorite movies have become frivolous and not sad enough to make me cry because I know what real pain is.
> 
> I went to dinner and did some shopping with a friend of mine tonight. We ate at a Mexican restaurant (complete with a peach Margarita on the rocks because the ice machine for frozen drinks was down 😡😔), and did some shopping/browsing in some stores in a nearby town. We had a good time and comforted each other. (She has some life stuff going on, too…but who doesn’t?!)
> 
> Still not sure, but I think I need to do a lot more crying and receiving a lot more comfort-hugs. At least those things feel real—not like I am just pretending to heal, muddling through my daily life.
> 
> I have not been sleeping much. Going to bed early tonight. No alarms. I will get up when I get up.


Don't feel bad about the meltdowns; it's part of the process. I had some for quite some time after my divorce was final, and realized it was anger mostly directed at myself for wasting so much time on someone who showed me exactly how unworthy he was of me. 

I watched a few series on infidelity to help me process my feelings as a sort of immersion therapy, as I haven't been able to keep up with therapy (The Affair, all 5 seasons) and get over my triggers. It was ****ty for a while, but then it became neutral. Things got way better after that, I was more stable and meltdowns got fewer and further in between. Nowadays, when I get frustrated or depressed for no reason, I try to assess what I'm feeling and identify it, and it goes away much faster.

It's always hard to face the unknown, especially when you're stuck in your comfort zone. Your marriage used to be your comfort zone, but now, you've got the opportunity to remake your life the way you see fit, whether that eventually includes someone else or simply you doing things you always wanted to and deepening connections with loved ones.



Woundidwife said:


> I bet there is. Didn’t get there yet, and I am going in order. Trying to do things the right way—WHICH I ALWAYS DO, but _some people_ don’t…which is how I got into this situation in the first place.
> 
> Okay. Done venting. Sorry. Definitely still some anger just below the surface. The good news though is that I have NEVER unleashed it on any undeserving individuals. I save it all up for when I get to speak to my STBXCH. I actually TRY not to dump it on him either, but it never seems to work that way! Oh well. Couldn’t happen to a better person. 🤷🏻‍♀️
> 
> It has been 4 & 1/2 months since my D-day. I didn’t join TAM until I had already struggled mentally on my own for about 3 weeks…reading posts of those who walked in these shoes before me.


Ha, that's life, isn't it? I've found it's always harder on people who try to do things the "right way". The "right" thing is always simple but never easy. I have right in quotation marks because it differs by person. Some people simply don't care about what the right thing costs others. Those unfortunates are collateral damage, it's not personal. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can write those kinds of people off as incompatible with your value system and move on. 

Of course, you're in the unenviable position of still having to have contact with STBXH, so hang in there. Once you can sever ties and stop having to maintain any contact, things will get so much easier for you. 



Woundidwife said:


> Yes, I plan to rebuild all of that. Not 100% sure I will be able to trust anyone again, but I will surely try.
> 
> As for the grandmother…if you had asked me (or anyone who knows me) what kind of grandma I would be 5 months ago, the answer would have matched or maybe even eclipsed your confidence in me. (I am the “fun”, favorite aunt. I am the planner of most to all family gatherings and activities.) That time is inching closer as one of my grown children has imminent plans…I know it will take YEARS for me to fully recover, and I just HOPE and PRAY that I will be ready and in a good headspace in time to be the best grandma I can be and the grandma that my grandchild deserves. ❤💪🥲.
> 
> It kills me to be so unsure of myself, but this pain is very real, and I know I have A LOT more of it to work through before I am (fully) healed.


I'd love to be able to reassure you that one day you'll be fully healed, but I'm still working on that (3yrs divorced). I've chosen to reframe it to myself as making progress toward growth while still holding onto my ideals for myself and not allowing that experience to change my value system. If you let your pain and anger go AWOL, it only embitters you, and you end up losing yourself and your joie de vivre. Heck, you can see examples of that on other threads right here on TAM. 

Maybe other BS further removed from their DD can chime in here. I know @Openminded mentioned her DD and divorce was 10 years ago, and it was her story that gave me hope that I would be ok again. I also made friends with others going through similar situations around the same time, and we got close. I also unexpectedly met someone special who walked a similar (worse!) road, and we've forged someone I'd given up hoping for a long time ago when I realized my XH was incapable of sharing that.

I know it still feels like life sucks and you've lost so much, but one day you'll see the only thing you lost was someone who couldn't love you the way you need, the way you offer. So you truly didn't lose anything worth having, and now you'll have the to create the life you want.


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## Gabriel

Woundidwife said:


> Harold Demure, I will look into those, but at the moment I feel the need to share some of my progress.
> 
> Here is what I currently have been doing (for the last few weeks). I ordered The Divorce Recovery Workbook. I am reading through the chapters and doing the activities. Some of them are painful. The one I am going to discuss now was especially so. I completed it right before Christmas, and it was one of the harder ones I have done yet. The activity was to reflect on the losses that I have or will experience due to the divorce.
> 
> Here is the list of losses that I made:
> 
> -My future as I knew it
> -Financial stability
> -Trust in true fidelity with another human being ever again
> -Belief in marriage (like a protection from abuse order, a piece of paper promises and protects nothing)
> -Unified family life/family dynamics
> -Beautiful home (including my unrivaled flowerbeds! 😡)
> -The illusion of peace in my life (I was content)
> -My dreams for what my retirement would be like
> -My dreams of what being a grandparent would look like
> -29 years of love and time (2 dating and 27 married)
> -My confidence, self-esteem, and sense of self-worth
> -My identity of being a wife
> -What I thought was a solid relationship
> -My youth
> -My belief that good people don’t do bad things
> -My belief that people who love you do not intentionally hurt you
> -My generally happy personality and ever-present smile
> 
> It doesn’t make me cry to read over that list as much anymore, so I feel this is progress.
> 
> ETA: (New since originally making the list)
> -MY beloved sports CAR!!! 😡
> -The $15,500 I lost in trading the car 🤬


I just want to say, your pain is really felt. I am so sorry for what your STBXH has put you through. It's truly a devastating thing to work through, it's worse than losing a parent. 

Please feel free to cry a lot. The more you do that, the more thorough your healing will be and the quicker you can move forward.


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## Woundidwife

Gabriel said:


> I just want to say, your pain is really felt. I am so sorry for what your STBXH has put you through. It's truly a devastating thing to work through, it's worse than losing a parent.
> 
> Please feel free to cry a lot. The more you do that, the more thorough your healing will be and the quicker you can move forward.


Thanks. I HAVE been doing quite a bit of that this week. 😔. 

I felt pretty good today, though, after “giving back” a little here on TAM yesterday. I was in a good mood for most of today! 😊👍


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