# Need an outside perspective



## daylate$short (Feb 12, 2018)

My Wife and I have been together since 2011. We got married in 2016. When we first started becoming friends and into the beginning of our relationship our communication was great. She opened up to me about things that not a single other person knows about and likewise with me to her. She did however at the outset let me know that she does have a hard time opening up, being emotional, and having the hard conversations. This is due in part to abuse and neglect she faced as a child and from other toxic (and in one case abusive) relationships she's been in in the past. This wasn't an issue until 2014.

Life kept throwing us curveballs and it was taking it's toll between her working 3rd shift, me 1st shift, two young kids, and one vehicle that ended up getting totaled it was stressful. My Wife and I had an argument one night that got heated (*NOT* physical in any way on either side). We hashed it out, apologized and moved on. So I thought. My Wife, who later told me she was still upset about the argument, turned to an ex-boyfriend for advice and consoling. I noticed that she began to grow distant from me and that she was spending her evenings before work either glued to her phone texting or sleeping. Long story short I discovered that while I was working she was going out on dates with this guy (movies, lunch, coffee). They were flirting heavily through text (her offering to rub his sore back,, saying she missed his handsome face, kissy face emojis, etc). On one occasion she spent the night at his house even though she denied it. I know this because one of the messages she sent was on a Thursday Morning at 6:35 a.m. that said "I hope I didn't wake you when I left this morning". She had every Wednesday night off but that particular Wednesday she was "working" an extra shift. I asked her first if she'd been hanging around with this guy and she denied it until I told her I saw the messages. We had a blowout. She cut ties with this guy (he now lives in CA), and we eventually worked it out and got married a year and a half later.

Things have seemed to be alright up until the last couple of months. More of the same life stressors only this time with me trying to start a business and money being ridiculously tight. Once again, my Wife has closed up on her feelings and always says "She's fine" or not thinking about anything ever. The other week while at her parents house I had to go out and move our car. She left her phone in the car and while I was moving she got a text from a friend (with whom she used to hook up with before we met, and who also tried getting her to spend the weekend with him right after our relationship started-which she told me about and told him no). It popped up on the screen and said "Yeah you can come over that same day." I didn't read any other texts or go through her phone because I did that once before in 2014 and vowed to never do it again out of respect for her privacy.
My problem is that this guy has no respect for her. Evidenced by the fact that the last few times they hung out all he wanted to do was **** and run ( he had a GF at the time as well which was unknown to my now wife until we saw them out one night and he acted like he didn't even know who she was), our relationship, our kids, or me. I met him 4 times each time saying "Hi, how are you?" and extending my hand and each time he looked me up and down and turned away without saying a single word. Legitimately never said a single word to me in the 4 occasions we've met and occupied the same space. He has more than once tried to convince her to forget me and the family and go spend a weekend with her. I have told her how I feel about him. How he has no respect for any of us or our relationship and that I am not comfortable with her associating with him. She said she understood but that it's hard for her to see him in the same light because she remembers who he was when they were in High School (we're in our 30's now). Anyways, I got pissed when I saw this text because last she told me they were no longer in contact.

I haven't said anything to her yet for a couple reasons:
1) I wanted to internalize and watch the situation closely to see if there are any other warning signs.
2) I want to fully grasp exactly what about it makes me angry and hurt.
3) I believe my Wife has a right to privacy and has a right to communicate with friends. As a disclaimer, she has a lot of plutonic male friends who I have met and have absolutely zero issue with so this isn't the typical male friend scenario.

My questions are:
1) Should it bother me that she is communicating with this guy knowing how I feel about him and knowing what happened in 2014 with her Ex?
2) I don't want to because I don't want to be "that guy" but would it be wrong for me to tell her I don't want her communicating or seeing him anymore?
3) I know the bigger issue here, after self internalizing, is our lack of communication, should I even mention that I know about this text or just focus on the feeling of us growing apart communication wise?

P.S. It's a two way street. If my Wife is closing off from me and sharing her feelings about life and stress with someone else ( and doing it behind my back) than it means I may have done or said something to help create that scenario. I'm not perfect and I know I have flaws I can work on and I intend to. Again, I know it's a two-way street.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

*Re: Want a Woman's perspective*

You feel angry and hurt because it's apparent that your wife is unfaithful. 

Your belief that spouses deserve what you call privacy is incompatible with a strong marriage. Privacy is getting to go to the bathroom by yourself. What your wife is engaged in, and you're apparently willing to tolerate, is secrecy. Those are two different things. Secrecy isn't something that should be part of a healthy marriage. 

Now, to answer your questions: 
1) Yes, it should bother you that your wife, who has a history of being unfaithful, is once again acting in ways that indicate unfaithfulness. At least, it should bother you if you dislike her cheating. If not, then ignore it or rugsweep it again, since it's bound to continue happening. 

2) Why don't you want to tell your wife you have a problem with her having secret relationships with other men? Are you afraid of her? Are you so desperate for love that you're unwilling to have and enforce reasonable marital boundaries? Do you not believe you have the right to tell your wife when she's hurting you and damaging your marriage? Stop feeling guilty for feeling betrayed by her repeated betrayal. She's the one in the wrong here. 

3) Why do you think the big problem here is your lack of communication? It seems your wife is communicating fine, she's just doing it with her other man. Is her chatting up other dudes helping to fix your "communication issues"? If it's not, then why is she doing it? Perhaps it's because she has poor boundaries and has a really hard time not cheating on you. There are constructive ways to work on marital problems. Shagging other dudes is not one of them. 


I'm sorry to say that you apparently married a woman who you knew was capable of cheating on you, and now it looks like she's doing it again. She has profoundly poor boundaries with the opposite sex. And you have profoundly poor boundaries regarding what you're willing to tolerate in a relationship. The only one you can change here, is you. I recommend working with an IC to help build your self-esteem up a bit. Figure out why you don't think you deserve better than to be cheated on repeatedly by your wife, and fix that issue within yourself. Once you think you deserve better, then you'll have a much clearer picture regarding what to do about it.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, the gendered boards here aren't exclusive, so you'll get plenty of responses from both men and women in both places. It also violates the rules of the forum to post the same thread to multiple boards. You might actually get much more help if you ask a moderator to consolidate your two threads and move them to the Coping with Infidelity board, as infidelity is the actual problem in your marriage.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

What are you waiting to see?

There is a 3rd person in your marriage, brought to bear by her. This is a FULL FLEDGED AFFAIR.

There will be zero improvement in anything as long as she is sleeping with someone else while married to you.

In fact, it raises questions about what in the heck you are thinking that you are essentially "hoping" things will improve while allowing your wife to date another man.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@daylate$short

I merged your two threads into this one. Only one thread on a topic please.

Keep in mind that both men and women post on all forum here on TAM, so you will get input from both men and women no matter what forum you post in.

Also, I'd like to move this thread to the Coping with Infidelity forum because that fits your issues much better. I'll check back and move this thread to Coping with Infidelity once you've seen this post.


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## daylate$short (Feb 12, 2018)

I appreciate your response and input. To your questions and comments, there is no proof she is sleeping with another man. I work from home everyday and she literally works a block away from home and comes home every lunch time, is home everyday after work, at night, and on weekends. This guy lives an hour away and there hasn't been a time in recent memory in which she was gone anywhere near long enough to have gone to see him. This doesn't mean that they aren't planning too which is how I interpret the text. I also don't know the context of the text he sent her or the conversation leading up to that because I didn't go through her messages. That message is the only contact I am aware of between them. That's not to say that they're not having an emotional affair or making plans, I just don't have the hard proof of that. I'm not about to throw out wild accusations without some more concrete proof because that will just backfire in my face if I'm wrong. However, I do see the point of it being ridiculous that I would consider not saying anything about the message in general. That has been my gut instinct but again just wanted to get an outside perspective.

As far as being desperate for love, I told her point blank in 2014 it was me or him period. I had a plan in place in the event that things went south. I had planned to propose that year and told her it's not happening for a while. I waited 21 months to propose after that. Maybe it's time to make that same ultimatum again. I don't need her to survive I can survive just fine on my own.

As far as the communication piece that someone touched on with regards to me. I'm not the best listener. My mind is constantly running and there are times, more often than not, that I space out when she's talking about anything and don't hear most of what she's saying and she's called me on it. That's one area where I have dropped the ball in this relationship and (although it doesn't excuse the behavior) could be a contributing factor to her reaching out to another man to talk to. Someone who is listening, even though she knows they probably have alternative motives for doing so.

I don't feel guilty about feeling betrayed. I feel angry and I know I have that right. I just know from personal experience with her that if I go to hard on the situation she will shut right down on me and that is only going to drive us further apart. Which yeah, that's on her but I'd rather be able to figure a way to have this hard conversation without her shutting down which is why I didn't just jump right in it then and there.

Thank you all for your input. It's greatly appreciated and being taken to heart.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

It is okay to not say anything if you have a plan. In fact, it is encouraged if you have a plan, to be disclosed when most opportune for you.

But I'm willing to bet you don't. That means you are sweeping this under the rug while clinging to "hopium".


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

you know I'm of the old adage if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck i am pretty sure it might be a duck.....you forgave her once but i would make it crystal clear that privacy is one thing cheating is another and if she goes down that road again you are done...and you will kick her ass to the curb where it belongs.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

daylate$short said:


> It popped up on the screen and said "Yeah you can come over that same day." I didn't read any other texts or go through her phone because I did that once before in 2014 and vowed to never do it again out of respect for her privacy.


That's one of the most emasculating things I've read for awhile. I advise you to rethink this idea because it's very weak and makes you look pathetic in her eyes. More importantly, it will cause you a lot of further grief.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Lostinthought61 said:


> you know I'm of the old adage if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck i am pretty sure it might be a duck.....you forgave her once but i would make it crystal clear that privacy is one thing cheating is another and if she goes down that road again you are done...and you will kick her ass to the curb where it belongs.


*Trust me! It's more than apparent that she's going down on something other than the road!

Where is the faithfulness here?

You need to lose her like a bad habit!*


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## daylate$short (Feb 12, 2018)

Steve1000. Thank you for the insight. I never thought about it being emasculating for me it was more about trying to reestablish trust. I can't spend the next 60 years going through her phone each and everyday but I can see where it would behoove me to check in once in a while regardless of privacy. Thank you for bringing that up.

Farsidejunky. I have a plan in place. I have always had a plan in place. Life is not guaranteed to go a certain way and I will and am prepared to be on my own without her should that day come.

Lostinthought61. I told her that in 2014. It was me or him. Period. If I do find that she has had an affair, there won't be a need for an ultimatum it'll just be done and she knows this because I have told her this.


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## daylate$short (Feb 12, 2018)

I appreciate everyone who has chimed in thus far. I may not agree with everything everyone is saying but that it neither here nor there. The insight and alternative perspectives and views on this have given me more to consider and have helped to solidify my feelings on it.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Daykate$short said: "It popped up on the screen and said "Yeah you can come over that same day." I didn't read any other texts or go through her phone because I did that once before in 2014 and vowed to never do it again out of respect for her privacy."

The above quote from the OP says all about his character. Based on his posts OP seem to be a weak, passive man, with little boundaries, as demonstrated by his marrying her after she cheated. Afraid of acting strongly for what's best for him. I wonder if he had a male role while growing up?

I bet you that his woman or any woman for that matter would had immediately go over all his texts, emails, etc. And confront strongly right away, showing more balls than him.

I hope that when the time comes he will be ready to drop the axe, but I have my suspicions that when it comes the extent of his actions will be to once again forgive after the insuing drama of confrontation.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

daylate$short said:


> Steve1000. Thank you for the insight. I never thought about it being emasculating for me it was more about trying to reestablish trust.* I can't spend the next 60 years going through her phone each and everyday* but I can see where it would behoove me to check in once in a while regardless of privacy. Thank you for bringing that up.
> Then I think your decision should be firmly in place, because she has proven herself to NOT be trust worthy. So either you live the cuckolded life, checking her phone and swallowing your pride, or you get the heck out.
> Farsidejunky. I have a plan in place. I have always had a plan in place. Life is not guaranteed to go a certain way and I will and am prepared to be on my own without her *should that day come*.
> It appears that day has come. Either be a man and follow thru or stay and invalidate yourself
> Lostinthought61. I told her that in 2014. It was me or him. Period. *If* I do find that she has had an affair, there won't be a need for an ultimatum it'll just be done and she knows this because I have told her this.


IF? Read what you wrote. She is having an affair. Because you may have told her there would be consequences, but then you didn't follow thru because you "didn't want to be that guy". It sounds like you can't believe what you have already discovered.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

daylate$short said:


> Steve1000. Thank you for the insight. I never thought about it being emasculating for me it was more about trying to reestablish trust. *I can't spend the next 60 years going through her phone each and everyday* but I can see where it would behoove me to check in once in a while regardless of privacy. Thank you for bringing that up.
> 
> Farsidejunky. I have a plan in place. I have always had a plan in place. Life is not guaranteed to go a certain way and I will and am prepared to be on my own without her should that day come.
> 
> Lostinthought61. I told her that in 2014. It was me or him. Period. If I do find that she has had an affair, there won't be a need for an ultimatum it'll just be done and she knows this because I have told her this.


That is what you will have to do now that trust has been destroyed by your wife.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Sir,

Your W is dating OM while you are working. Your W is lying concerning not being in contact with one particular OM. Your W sent a text to OM hoping she did not wake him when she left early in the morning. Plain enough for me to call this an affair. Furthermore, its a PA.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I am going to pry, mostly because I think you are not being honest with yourself.

What is your deal breaker?

Or are you waiting to become sick and tired of being sick and tired?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Privacy is a wonderful thing with trust... but with reasons you've shared, your trust is waning here so privacy must also to a degree.

It would be worth looking into your phone plan at least... that's not private, that's a bill and that will at least let you know if you need to look deeper.

Both your behaviors and her's are choices you make and will be accountable for... the friends she introduces and the depth she engages, or chooses not to are owned by her, not you.

Doubt of her faithfulness will chisel away at your soul and invite poor reactions at every turn... at the worst your wife has weak boundaries and hangs with people with the same, a very dangerous combination.

I don't know how respect can grow in such soil...


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

daylate$short said:


> It popped up on the screen and said "Yeah you can come over that same day." I didn't read any other texts or go through her phone because I did that once before in 2014 and vowed to never do it again out of respect for her privacy..





Steve1000 said:


> That's one of the most emasculating things I've read for awhile. I advise you to rethink this idea because it's very weak and makes you look pathetic in her eyes. More importantly, it will cause you a lot of further grief.


It makes absolutely no sense that you wouldn't immediately investigate a text of that nature between your wife and another man...to clarify, another man with whom she has a history. Add the fact that your wife cannot be trusted, and that simple text becomes all the more inflammatory. 

It would seem you do not want to confront this, otherwise you would have read their conversation. Privacy? Nope.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

daylate$short said:


> Steve1000. Thank you for the insight. I never thought about it being emasculating for me it was more about trying to reestablish trust. I can't spend the next 60 years going through her phone each and everyday but I can see where it would behoove me to check in once in a while regardless of privacy. Thank you for bringing that up.


You seem to be a good person and you are obviously trying your best to handle this in the best way possible. Many of us of been in similar situations and regret some aspects of how we handled it because we were not prepared to handle it. Imagine for a second that your wife picked up your phone and noticed that some unknown woman had sent you a message. Would you be angry if she opened the message and read your conversation? I suspect that you would not mind because she is your wife and you are not trying to hide any relationships with your wife. If you had previously cheated on your wife, then you would absolutely be understanding of her need to read the entire conversation. 

We can't spend the next several decades going through our spouse's phone everyday, but we can have spouses that are fine with their husband or wife picking up their phone and using it. Back in the early 1990's before we all had cell phones, it would have been very telling for a spouse to receive a call on their land line and then not wish to share any details about it to her/his husband/wife. 

I have made many mistakes, but one thing I did right in my marriage was to insist on openness and transparency.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

FYI, people go to work except when they just act like they are at work but they are really in a motel somewhere getting shagged. Easy peasy.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I can tell that you are an analytical, logical person and that if you do not have a certified, time-stamped video and associated recorded bioelectronic physiological data recordings showing their elevated heartrates and respiratory rates, you do not believe that she is having an affair. 

I hate to break it to you but other than the actual recordings above, all of the other signs are there that this is an actual affair.

Not only is this an affair but she has shown a consistent pattern of unfaithful behavior through pretty much your whole relationship.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

daylate$short said:


> I appreciate everyone who has chimed in thus far. I may not agree with everything everyone is saying but that it neither here nor there. The insight and alternative perspectives and views on this have given me more to consider and have helped to solidify my feelings on it.


You may not agree with everyone?

Everyone is advising you to establish boundaries, something essential to every healthy marriage. The alternative is rug sweeping, some that ensures a marriage's erosion and death. 

You choose one or the other. It's mathematical.


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