# Need advice, wife is apathetic



## JohnDoe2012

My wife and I have been married for 16 years. Throughout the whole marriage she has been apathetic towards our relationship, apathetic towards life. We have no intimacy at all; once I decided to see how long we could go without sex before she made a comment about it. I stood my ground and didn't initiate anything or say anything; a year went by and she said nothing at all, and never gave any indication that something was wrong. After the year I finally said something, and she didn't have any answer. This was 5 years ago, and since then I ask her every day to communicate about our marriage. Literally every day. She always says she doesn't have time. I asked her for ten minutes every morning, and she won't give that; the rare times she gives in and talks, all she says is that she "doesn't have the answers". I tried planning getaways, she shows no interest; once I planned something and she actually forgot about it, made other plans the same weekend (I cancelled the trip). We have no intimacy in our marriage at all; its not just no sex, there are none of the interactions that make a couple a couple. She acts like we are just friends (and not even close friends). She is also apathetic towards friendships and her family. We have a wonderful teen daughter (my wife is a good mother), she is the only thing that keeps me in the marriage. If not for her I would leave with no regrets whatsoever. But I am at the end of the line, I am exhausted trying to save the marriage, life is going by (I am 44), and I want to love and be loved. Am I selfish to leave the marriage? We always say we would do anything for our children's happiness, which is what makes me stay. But I'm miserable and now starting to get depressed, I'm beginning to detach from life. I need advice.


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## anchorwatch

John, 

Look, you withheld sex for a year. It didn't bother her because that is what she wanted. She's happy with out intimacy of any kind. She was probably relived that you took that off the table. (IMO, very passive aggressive on your part) Have you tried MC?

This has gone on a long time. She likes the relationship this way. I'm sure you have discussed leaving the marriage with her, but you're still there. She has no reason to change. 

You can't change her. You can only change you. It's time to detach from her, not life. You need to start doing things for you. Start going out with friends, get a hobby, do things you like. Let her see you can and are willing to move on with out her. Some call it the 180. If she sees you change she will have to decide what to do, but you'll be prepared to leave if that's what it comes to.


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## northernlights

I agree, this is no way to live. Definitely pick up divorce busters by michelle weiner and implement the 180. I'm working on re-discovering myself right now, and learning to believe that I deserve more than a spouse who cares more about himself than anyone else. Love yourself, find your passion, and if your wife doesn't want to love you back, that'll be her loss.


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## JohnDoe2012

Good advice anchor. And yes, I have started doing things on my own. I joined a running club, getting together with friends now and then. But, I'm not looking forward to living the rest of my life like a priest. Not talking just physically, but also emotionally.


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## turnera

I'm sorry, but I don't see any hope for this marriage. You're a convenience. I would make moves to separate so you don't waste the NEXT 20 years of your life.


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## anchorwatch

JohnDoe2012 said:


> Good advice anchor. And yes, I have started doing things on my own. I joined a running club, getting together with friends now and then. But, I'm not looking forward to living the rest of my life like a priest. Not talking just physically, but also emotionally.


John, 

There is little reason anyone should live that type of life. You should have the life you want, not giving into others at your expense. Filling others needs as they fill your's, that's the way. Let me recommend a read for you. 

No More Mr. Nice Guy Take the quiz. See if it applies.

Here's the 180 from the forum. 

180 List - No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group


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## JohnDoe2012

Thanks. I want to leave the marriage. But I don't want to hurt my daughter. Thoughts on that?


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## JohnDoe2012

anchorwatch said:


> John,
> 
> There is little reason anyone should live that type of life. You should have the life you want, not giving into others at your expense. Filling others needs as they fill your's, that's the way. Let me recommend a read for you.
> 
> No More Mr. Nice Guy Take the quiz. See if it applies.
> 
> Here's the 180 from the forum.
> 
> 180 List - No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group


Anchor, I took this test and got a very low score. Guess I'm not a nice guy LOL. I actually have it together on the rest if my life; great job, good friends, good physical shape, and (I think) a successful father. It's losing that last one that has me worried.


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## turnera

You will still be her father. You just won't be with her 24/7. But in your case, I consider it a blessing. You see, she is watching you two to see how couples should be. She's learning from her mom to be cold and inattentive and unloving. SHE will be like that with her husband, if you don't move out and find a woman full of love and passion. If she sees you with a woman like that, she'll see the joy in such a relationship and she MAY choose to follow THAT path.

And of course, she will always love you. And think of how much happier she'll be with you when YOU are happy. She likely rarely sees any joy in YOU because you're so defeated at home. Trust me, she'll be ok once you get happier.


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## turnera

Plus, there's always the chance that, once you state your intention to leave, your wife will wake up from her coma and realize what she's about to lose. But it will never happen if you stay.


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## JohnDoe2012

I have been talking divorce for a year, she is very firm she does not want one. Yeah she is very comfortable with the situation. Question: I leave work every night about 5:00, and always call at that time to check in. She is always disinterested but I do it anyway. Tonight I worked late and didn't call until 6:45. She didn't call or text to see if I was working late. Is that apathy or am I just being overly sensitive?


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## turnera

It's apathy. She couldn't care less if you were around.

Has she been like this your whole marriage? Why did she get married, if so? Were you convenient?

Has she been tested for depression?


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## JohnDoe2012

She has been like this the whole marriage. I believe she got married because she felt that it was an obligation. She wants to "be married", but does not want to engage in marriage. She does not seem depressed, she actually seems content.

Whether its a phone call to say I'm on my way home, or making plans for a getaway, or anything in between, I'm always trying to do something to make this a relationship. But I never get a response back, we have none if the interactions that make a relationship. It's like getting dressed up for a party that I'm not invited to.


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## JohnDoe2012

she is apathetic towards all her relationships. Her parents neglected her emotional needs growing up, and in the few times she has opened up, she says her apathy is a defense she built against that.


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## turnera

Best to move on, then. She will never change - unless she hits rock bottom, goes to therapy, and unlocks the key to that 10-foot-thick wall she built around herself.


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## anchorwatch

John, 

From what you describe, she needs professional help. You can't give her that. She needs to see that for herself. The only way she might be awakened is if you destabilize the relationship and she sees reason to attempt change. What do you think she would do if she knew you were moving on or you served her with D papers? 

Best to keep to the 180 and start your detachment from her.


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## JohnDoe2012

Thank you very much everyone for your input. You have all validated the thoughts I have been having.


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## anchorwatch

John, 

I just would say one thing. I hope it doesn't cause you more confusion. It is likely that she does love you, as she does chose you. Yet she is incapable of showing it. Her childhood has everything to do with it. She puts up a wall around her so she can't be hurt others. She doesn't have other tools to deal with it, so this is her survival tool. Her fault? No. 

Good luck. Wish you and your family well.


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## turnera

fwiw, I am just like her. I've been numb my whole life. I remember thinking at my wedding and at my DD's birth why I didn't feel excited. I now know it's because I've got a titanium shield, even for ME. The only reason I give more than your wife is I also have low self esteem and toxic shame and I'm conflict avoidant, and I'm too worried about people thinking badly of me or causing a ruckus, so I give and give and give. 

If you were to leave her, or make plans to leave, she just might get the push she needs to face it.


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## LonelyMike

turnera said:


> fwiw, I am just like her. I've been numb my whole life. I remember thinking at my wedding and at my DD's birth why I didn't feel excited. I now know it's because I've got a titanium shield, even for ME. The only reason I give more than your wife is I also have low self esteem and toxic shame and I'm conflict avoidant, and I'm too worried about people thinking badly of me or causing a ruckus, so I give and give and give.
> 
> If you were to leave her, or make plans to leave, she just might get the push she needs to face it.


Turnera, my wife is almost axactly like you to the T.. I'm at a complete loss. We've been through thick and thin and everytime we talk, things will be ok for a few weeks even a months, then she sinks back to this person you just described. Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Sorry to hijack your thread OP.. But i can relate. Hope everything works out for you but I know axactly how you feel..


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## turnera

Mike, any counselor would give you ACTUAL, REAL GOALS. Homework. Things she HAS to do, that will start affecting her. You should start your own thread so we can help.


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## LonelyMike

turnera said:


> Mike, any counselor would give you ACTUAL, REAL GOALS. Homework. Things she HAS to do, that will start affecting her. You should start your own thread so we can help.


Done.. Thanks so much for responding.


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## JohnDoe2012

It's a new year, and it's making me depressed. I'm looking at another year of an unhappy, loveless marriage, with no hope for improvement at all. For those of you in a bad marriage that you can't escape, how do you cope?


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## turnera

Why can't you escape it?


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## JohnDoe2012

turnera said:


> Why can't you escape it?


Because I don't want to hurt my daughter.


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## turnera

Then if she's your only reason, set all your thoughts and dreams on her and stop thinking about yourself. *shrug*


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## JohnDoe2012

turnera said:


> Then if she's your only reason, set all your thoughts and dreams on her and stop thinking about yourself. *shrug*


I guess I don't quite understand that response.


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## Hopefull363

Would you want your daughter to be miserable for 20 + years to make someone else happy? Your relationship or lack of is what you want your daughter to see as healthy? You would probably be doing your daughter a favor to see you seek your own happiness. You'll teach her to be responsible for her own happiness.


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## turnera

JohnDoe2012 said:


> I guess I don't quite understand that response.


 You said YOU were unhappy, but also that you care only about making sure your daughter is happy. Those contradict each other. If you're going to say you can't leave because your daughter would be unhappy (which is not necessarily true), then THAT must be your one goal in life - to ensure your daughter is happy. Therefore, any unhappiness YOU feel is inconsequential, because by staying (according to your logic), you keep D happy so YOU will be happy.


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## JohnDoe2012

I tried more and it didn't work. Last week she said she was too busy to talk in the morning and promised to talk at night, but then didn't. She did the same thing yesterday. And she avoided me all weekend. I just want to talk about the marriage. She had been doing this for years (avoiding discussion). Sometimes she says that "she doesn't know what to say".

I'm in a really bad place. I am always angry, bitter, and sad. I was never like this, I was always a goofy, jovial person. I don't think I have laughed for a year. I'm in such a bad place.


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## turnera

Tell her you've had enough and if she doesn't sit down with you and talk, you'll assume she's done, and you'll make plans to separate.


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## JohnDoe2012

I just spent 10 minutes pleading with my wife to talk about our marriage. She says she needs to run some errands first. It's stuff I told her can wait (she is going to return some bottles, and do a small amount of food shopping). She was firm is going to do the errands. She said she will talk later when she "doesn't have to worry about the errands". I expect she won't talk though. 

She knows this (not talking) is a serious point of contention, in fact has destroyed our marriage. Am I right that her preference of running errands vs talking is bizarre behavior, considering that she claims the marriage is a priority for her??


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## JohnDoe2012

JohnDoe2012 said:


> I just spent 10 minutes pleading with my wife to talk about our marriage. She says she needs to run some errands first. It's stuff I told her can wait (she is going to return some bottles, and do a small amount of food shopping). She was firm is going to do the errands. She said she will talk later when she "doesn't have to worry about the errands". I expect she won't talk though.
> 
> She knows this (not talking) is a serious point of contention, in fact has destroyed our marriage. Am I right that her preference of running errands vs talking is bizarre behavior, considering that she claims the marriage is a priority for her??


She did her errands. She came home and never talked. Promised she would tomorrow. And so it goes on.


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## Anon Pink

John, 
Excuse me if I'm butting in. I read this whole thread and I'm struck by how much love you must have for her. I really can't imagine a woman being this apathetic about the most important relationship in her life, outside of a serious depression or other mental illness. If it is something like that, you can't solve this for her, only she can and if she refuses she's going to take you to crazy town with her, as well as your daughter. Do you want your daughter to grow up seeing your wife's apathy and disengagement as normal?

Think rock bottom. I once heard an addiction specialist say, "how do you get someone to hit rock bottom so they reach the turning point? You hit them over the head with it." Your wife has no need to alter anything about her life because it seems to be working for her. Not my idea of working and not your idea, but for her it works. Well stop helping her make this apathy work.

You know, it's so much raiser to give advice to others than to take the good advice given by others.


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## turnera

Why should she talk? She doesn't want to, and she knows YOU aren't going anywhere. In fact, you are SO not going anywhere that you sit there and BEG her like a dog.

Tell me what there is to respect in how you act? (remember that women have to respect their man to want to be with him)


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## happyman64

JohnDoe2012 said:


> She did her errands. She came home and never talked. Promised she would tomorrow. And so it goes on.


John

Why not make 2013 a new year.

Go see an attorney. Find out what you and your wife are entitled too.

Then figure out what your goals will be this year. Then start acting on those goals.

Separate your finances.
Shop around for places to live.

Then have D papers drawn up and left on the counter for your wife with a note.

"Since you have avoided having a conversation with me about our marriage you have left me with no other choice but to write this letter."

If that does not get her attention than your marriage really is over and you are already two steps ahead.

What do you have to lose?

HM64


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## JohnDoe2012

turnera said:


> Why should she talk? She doesn't want to, and she knows YOU aren't going anywhere. In fact, you are SO not going anywhere that you sit there and BEG her like a dog.
> 
> Tell me what there is to respect in how you act? (remember that women have to respect their man to want to be with him)


Um, I don't beg her like a dog. I'm trying to communicate with her. Comments like that don't belong in this forum.


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## Anon Pink

John, I can imagine the above glib comment by turnera might hurt, but it doesn't seem too far from the truth. Be a man, state your expectations, your boundaries, and your intentions should expectations remain unmet. You deserve to feel loved and be loved. For whatever reason, she's not giving what you need. The how's and whys will work themselves out but only IF she begins to work on them. Thats what you must insist on.

I think if you follow Happyman64's advice, as hard as it may look, you will eventually find yourself with a life partner who loves you and cherishes you and makes sure you feel it. It may be with this wife, it may be with the next wife. Whichever the case may be, you deserve to have it


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## happyman64

Maybe you guys go on a date.

To the marriage counselors office.

Or

If there is someone in her life that respects and listens to, reach out to that person.

Maybe they can help you communicate with her.


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## Killaz

Your situation sounds very similar to mine. I have a very had time getting through to my wife... apathy, indifference, coldness, you name it (10 years of marriage). It seems I do everything to keep my wife happy but she's just never satisfied and she can be very negative. It's a sad comment but if it wasn't for our son I would be gone. Good luck and please keep us posted how it's going. I have just discovered this community and it makes me feel a little bit better knowing that there are other people going through the same and we can share our experiences. Thanks.


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## JohnDoe2012

Killaz said:


> Your situation sounds very similar to mine. I have a very had time getting through to my wife... apathy, indifference, coldness, you name it (10 years of marriage). It seems I do everything to keep my wife happy but she's just never satisfied and she can be very negative. It's a sad comment but if it wasn't for our son I would be gone. Good luck and please keep us posted how it's going. I have just discovered this community and it makes me feel a little bit better knowing that there are other people going through the same and we can share our experiences. Thanks.


Killaz thank you for your post, I feel for you and I'm sad to see you in the same situation as me, but agreed we can and should support each other through this forum. Keep us posted as well.


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## turnera

JohnDoe2012 said:


> I just spent 10 minutes pleading with my wife to talk about our marriage.


One minute is pleading. Ten minutes is begging. And it is not attractive to women.


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