# Sleep Schedule and Intimacy



## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Ever since I can remember, my husband always liked to keep late hours and sleep in late. When we were dating, I figured this is “college husband”, and surely when he grew into “working adult husband” or “parent husband”, he would change his sleep schedule like a normal adult by going to bed at a decent time in order to wake up for work. This never happened. He has always managed to find a job that accommodates his crazy schedule. On weekends it is not unusual to find him still awake at 3-4 am playing video games, therefore sleeping the good part of Saturday. He will even keep this kind of schedule when we are visiting my family, which I find is really inconsiderate to them. It makes my parents think he just doesn’t want to see them, and I’ve told him I just think it is rude but he does it anyway and my parents don’t understand. He was even this way back when the kids were babies. I’d be awake before the sun would come up, and sometimes he had still not even gone to bed. I didn’t think this was conducive to a healthy relationship but waking up with babies wasn’t something I could just choose not to do. I felt like it was time for him to step up and change the schedule, but he wouldn’t and still hasn’t. Married 20 years now. He would tell me he’s just created this way and some people are morning people and some are night owls. It’s a scientific thing apparently? He says he can wake up anytime we have plans... that we can still have our times of intimacy and I can go to sleep after while he stays up. In theory, this may be possible but the reality is it never happens. On days he does have to wake up early, he is often grouchy, and on Sunday he struggles to stay awake during the church. Once home on Sunday, he sleeps most of the rest of the day. As far as intimacy goes, he blames me for never being in the mood. I’ve tried telling him so many times that I think his sleep schedule sets me up to fail, but it always comes back to it being solely my fault because I never show interest. By the time he’s all done with work, dinner and a trip to the gym... it is sometimes 9:00. By that time, my body is just done for the day and I truly do have 0 interest. He usually sits down on the couch and asks if I want to watch something. We usually pick something to watch on TV and if I haven’t fallen asleep in the middle of it, I’m headed up to bed by 10:00. Worth mentioning as well, I have a disability that progressively weakens my muscles... I am incredibly fatigued at the end of the day. Although I don’t hold him completely responsible for lack of intimacy, I feel like this sleep schedule problem does not help the situation at all. I certainly don’t have that loving feeling at this point. Unfortunately, we basically have a sexless marriage now and I’m truly ashamed and embarrassed that it has come to this. I want to fix it but I don’t know where to even start. His solution is that I should just please him even if I don’t feel like it. It is my duty as his wife. I’ve tried this a few times and feel like it will only make me more aversive to it and will do more harm than good. He does nothing to make me feel like he desires me, the only clue I get is when he makes a jab at how long it’s been. I feel like I have so many resentments built up that the thought of having sex with him is just ... repulsive honestly.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Wow you are way nicer than me because I wouldn’t be ok with a husband that does this. He just sounds lazy to me. Does he do any work around the house? It sounds like his free time is spent watching tv and playing video games and sleeping. 
He should be spending quality time with you. Going on dates still. I don’t blame you for not being in the mood for sex.
However, my only suggestion for you is whenever you are in the mood for sex, go initiate no matter what time of day it is. If he refuses you, so be it. If he wants you to put forth more effort I think you should, but not around HIS schedule. And I think once you start having sex you will realize how much you actually miss it and like it.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

You are enabling him. Your H is a boy in a man's body who has not grown up. Yes some people are night and morning persons etc but for example I am not a morning person but have to be up at the crack of dawn for the commute to my job. I don't like it but I do it, I would much prefer to go into work much later but unfortunately the working world doesn't suit me, I must suit them.
Same with your H, if he wants to have any semblance of normality in your life and marriage then he needs to act accordingly. I don't think it is your fault for wanting to rest and live according to normal hours. (BTW I have a similar problem, I cannot function with limited sleep, so if my H wants to be late I go sleep in another room). He is being entirely selfish, so there is little point in bending over backwards to please him and you should tell him so. 
I also agree with @Girl_power above, you initiate on YOUR schedule, why should it only be his?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

It’s hard to give people advice when for example I wouldn’t tolerate this behavior and would have nipped it in the butt early or I wouldn’t be with someone like this. 
Adults have to do things they don’t want to do. And sometimes people get into enabling relationships where they are allowed to not do what they don’t want to do. It’s bull crap. We all have 24 hrs in a day... we have to work and sleep, then we have to divide our other time with things we need to do, and our priorities. It’s clear where his priorities are because he spends so much time watching tv/video games. 
What do I do with my remaining time? I clean and do chores, workout, spend time with the people that are important to me... friends/family/significant any other, and I have “me” time. 
OP it sounds like he is just lazy and selfish. Please tell me he has other amazing qualities your leaving out.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

That’s part of the problem and I guess my part in why this has continued for so long. I have no desire for sex at all. NEVER in the mood. This issue is one of three pretty big issues that never get resolved. He does work hard at his job and I wouldn’t say he’s lazy, but not much around the house. He doesn’t ever help me with dinner cleanup or household chores unless you count hiring cleaning ladies. We have been making it work by not dealing with things but today is the first counseling appointment for myself. I hope he will join me for later sessions, but I’m tired of the current state of things. Just trying to get a bit of feedback from random strangers before I go 😉 This sleep thing isn’t normal right? I am not a terrible wife for feeling this way and not initiating times to be intimate? We also have 3 kids that are always around and two of them like to keep the same schedule as their Dad. He makes me out to be the bad guy when I insist on bedtimes in the summer.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

enealey said:


> That’s part of the problem and I guess my part in why this has continued for so long. I have no desire for sex at all. NEVER in the mood.


Well, exactly WHEN are you supposed to be _having_ sex with Peter Pan? At 4 am when his irresponsible, ignorant ass finally turns off his childish little video game console and goes to his big boy bed?

Maybe you can plan it for noon when Mr. Wonderful finally wakes up because apparently, he's *exempt* from having to act like a grownup because his mommy wife does 100% of EVERYTHING while he's sleeping til noon every day like a 15 year old teenage kid. 

I'm going to be honest. I would have never had a kid with this childish fool because anyone who can't grow the hell up after he marries and takes on adult responsibilities indicates to ME that I'm going to be doing everything *alone* because his privileged ass is apparently *above* lowering himself to do housework, cooking, laundry, and child-raising. All he really was was a sperm donor and I'd have to seriously question _that _gene pool based on how *he* acts.

You've basically been his mommy for 20 years and you've completely lost all respect for him (how could you NOT?). I'll give you credit - I would have left him YEARS ago because I don't need to be raising a man-child stuck at the emotional and mental maturity level of a 15 year old boy. At least your *normal* kids are growing up and MATURING as you raise them, but Peter Pan? You've got yourself a little boy who'll NEVER grow up. Gosh, I don't know how you manage *not* to be ripping this guy's clothes off every minute of the day because apparently, this fool thinks you should be ALL about wanting to have sex with him. :rofl:

He's truly clueless and dumb as a box of rocks.



> I want to fix it but I don’t know where to even start.


That's easily remedied. Just call your lawyer and tell him you'll be there first thing in the morning to get the paperwork going because you need to dump 200 pounds of worthless man-flesh from around your NECK.



> His solution is that I should just please him even if I don’t feel like it. It is my duty as his wife.


I actually laughed when I read this. Does this fool listen to himself when he talks? Did Gamer Dan have his really cool gaming headset on when he imparted these magical words of wisdom to you? 

I just have one question for you. Why are you IGNORING the fact that you have *no respect for him at all*? Why can't you face the truth of how you really feel and stop trying to pander to him? Are you financially dependent on him or something and need to stay with him? Is that why you're trying so hard to overlook the obvious????

All I can say is I hope your counselor OPENS YOUR EYES to accepting how you really feel. I don't understand why you're trying so hard to do what's no longer natural to you. Good luck to you.


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

enealey said:


> That’s part of the problem and I guess my part in why this has continued for so long. I have no desire for sex at all. NEVER in the mood. This issue is one of three pretty big issues that never get resolved. He does work hard at his job and I wouldn’t say he’s lazy, but not much around the house. He doesn’t ever help me with dinner cleanup or household chores unless you count hiring cleaning ladies. We have been making it work by not dealing with things but today is the first counseling appointment for myself. I hope he will join me for later sessions, but I’m tired of the current state of things. Just trying to get a bit of feedback from random strangers before I go 😉 This sleep thing isn’t normal right? I am not a terrible wife for feeling this way and not initiating times to be intimate? We also have 3 kids that are always around and two of them like to keep the same schedule as their Dad. He makes me out to be the bad guy when I insist on bedtimes in the summer.


Hopefully counseling helps, even if it's just you. It doesn't sound like this is un-fixable...yet.
I began staying up really late when my wife essentially quit having sex. She goes to bed very early, my natural bedtime is later but not as late as I was staying up...for about a year I was operating on around 4 hours sleep a night. That kills a lot of motivation and patience, at least in me. So I was reacting instead of acting...she did this, I did that and on and on in a death spiral of sorts.

Games are an addiction, surfing is an addiction, etc., a way of filling his unhappy time with mindless (ok, maybe challenging with some video games) in/activities. You're not going to be able to make him stop but you can provide enticement away from them. Those enticements can be both negative and/or positive. You cook and clean up and do wash? Let him know that he has a part to share in those. If he helps out then reward him, in whatever proportional way you know of to what he does. If he doesn't help out then simply stop doing your portion of work he enjoys the fruit of (i.e., dinner, laundry). Don't get angry but do explain why. It's easier for guys to understand when you tell us why...and you can tell him the mechanical part of why as well as the emotional part of why, but don't do it in an angry or cold way. Also, when he comes back with what it is that YOU are already not doing for him surprise him. Instead of giving in to the anger listen (you're being the adult here). Listening doesn't mean that you agree, it's kind of like when you sign the speeding ticket; you're not admitting anything maybe you're innocent. I think women are better at listening in the sense that they are able to better read between the lines than men are. Don't respond immediately, think about what he said then in a little while present him with a proposition that approaches his complaint in a mutual way or ask him some questions that either give you more information or that make him think deeper about whatever it is that he brought up...not accusatory question or a snarky response. Men don't mind talking but usually want to talk toward a solution.

From what you have posted I think he is more the problem than you, but that just means you are likely the one to have to push for a solution. You will have to do so probably more than once and probably pretty bluntly stating what the issue(s) are and where you would like to be. Best if done focused on one issue at a time. If he gets mad don't get angry back and don't try to calm him out of fear or as if you're his mother stand up to him as an equal (a rational, coherent equal). I often read or hear women feeling intimidated when their husband gets angry and it makes no sense to me. If your husband is abusive and has a history of it, then it does make sense...but do wives really think that their husband will just snap and go physical on them in an argument? Honestly, the majority of men are not even thinking of beating up their wife any more than they are of beating their children or a coworker. Most men are very cowed by their wife just as they were by their mother as a child...see the connection? Mom=power, child=no power...so treating him like a child will allow him to continue in a passive, powerless mode. Treat him and yourself like the adults you are. This isn't dating, things are broken but you can't just drop and walk away so you have deep incentives on both sides to fix things.
It's really a very workable situation when you look at it that way, it will just take time and perhaps some shocks to the system for both parties to see it that way.

*Disclaimer - These are personal opinions. I found out in January 2019 that my wife was having an affair. Implementing these thoughts are harder once an affair has happened. Prior to affair there were many, many warnings. Most of those warnings were either ignored or pushed under by both sides. Both sides felt powerless to make change and helpless to reverse things. Giving in to those perceptions did not mitigate the problems. Failure to act does not justify an affair. Problems continued to fill the void left by inability/unwillingness to confront the void.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> enealey said:
> 
> 
> > That’s part of the problem and I guess my part in why this has continued for so long. I have no desire for sex at all. NEVER in the mood.
> ...



I’m dying laughing at all of these words. Yes!!! I have thought these exact angry words at times. However I wouldn’t be seeking counseling if I didn’t see some redeeming qualities in my husband. He is an amazing father to our children and is the most honest loyal person I know. Unlike other relationships I’ve been in, I married him because I knew he’d be faithful. I don’t claim that he is 100 percent responsible. I think we are in a cycle we’ve been unable to break free from for too long. I’m no longer upset when he’s busy doing his own thing at night, I’ve gotten to a place where I’m perfectly content to do my own thing. I contribute and sure, I’ve enabled this to continue for far too long. The thing that has just started to eat at me now is loneliness. My oldest will be leaving for college next year and she’s been my best friend lately. I want to be happy and I feel like maybe with counseling he will see the damage this issue is causing and want to compromise.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

enealey said:


> I’m dying laughing at all of these words. Yes!!! I have thought these exact angry words at times. However I wouldn’t be seeking counseling if I didn’t see some redeeming qualities in my husband. *He is an amazing father to our children* and is the most honest loyal person I know. Unlike other relationships I’ve been in, I married him because I knew he’d be faithful. I don’t claim that he is 100 percent responsible. I think we are in a cycle we’ve been unable to break free from for too long. I’m no longer upset when he’s busy doing his own thing at night, I’ve gotten to a place where I’m perfectly content to do my own thing. I contribute and sure, I’ve enabled this to continue for far too long. The thing that has just started to eat at me now is loneliness. My oldest will be leaving for college next year and she’s been my best friend lately. I want to be happy and I feel like maybe with counseling he will see the damage this issue is causing and want to compromise.


It is great that you find other admirable qualities. I'm just not so sure I'd say I agree with the bolded. I don't think playing video games until 3am and sleeping past noon is setting a good example for the kids, and therefore is not modeling good father behavior. Part of this is setting the example. He's not setting a good one. 

More importantly, one of the most important things a man need do to be a good father is model behavior that nurtures the marriage. He is not nurturing your marriage and junior has been given the wrong example in what will be one of the most important aspects of his own life when he enters adulthood.

I'm not saying hubby is worthless or a bad person, and I'm not jumping on any kind of kick-him-to-the-curb bandwagon, but you need to look at his behavior in full context to assess it correctly. A good father does not leave the mother of his children in a state of lonliness.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> enealey said:
> 
> 
> > A good father does not leave the mother of his children in a state of lonliness.
> ...


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

If the real issue is loneliness then that’s something to talk to him about and make time together. 

Have you ever initiated sex when you weren’t in the mood? Because I really suggest you do it. Sex is Incredibly important in relationships.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> Have you ever initiated sex when you weren’t in the mood? Because I really suggest you do it. Sex is Incredibly important in relationships.


I definitely have done this and it’s an experience I don’t want to repeat. It doesn’t seem to make me want it more, it makes me all the more aversive. I know that sometimes this advice can help, but I honestly think there are so many bad habits and things at play in our marriage that it is not helpful at this time. The sleep/intimacy issue is just one of about 3 different issues that I feel are at the core of our problems.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

enealey said:


> I definitely have done this and it’s an experience I don’t want to repeat. It doesn’t seem to make me want it more, it makes me all the more aversive. I know that sometimes this advice can help, but I honestly think there are so many bad habits and things at play in our marriage that it is not helpful at this time. The sleep/intimacy issue is just one of about 3 different issues that I feel are at the core of our problems.


Yeah, such a tactic is only useful if your partner responds in a loving way. Which is more than just being willing to **** when called upon. Given the other dynamics in your marriage as you describe it, I doubt this is a path to success for you. 

Best wishes for some successful counseling!


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

enealey said:


> I definitely have done this and it’s an experience I don’t want to repeat. It doesn’t seem to make me want it more, it makes me all the more aversive. I know that sometimes this advice can help, but I honestly think there are so many bad habits and things at play in our marriage that it is not helpful at this time. The sleep/intimacy issue is just one of about 3 different issues that I feel are at the core of our problems.




I understand what your saying.

To be honest, I think it’s unrealistic to expect your husband to all of a sudden change and wake up early and go to bed early. You can try, but I doubt it will change. The problem is you have been ok with it for so many years... what if he demanded you to have sex with him once a week or else divorce? 
It’s not unrealistic for him to wake up at a normal hour just likes it’s not unrealistic for you to sleep with your husband once a week. Problem is... this relationship has been ignoring problems win each other so each of you can continue to do/not do what you want.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> enealey said:
> 
> 
> > Problem is... this relationship has been ignoring problems win each other so each of you can continue to do/not do what you want.
> ...


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

enealey said:


> I agree with you wholeheartedly and I am hoping the counselor will agree and help him see that this isn’t right. I know they aren’t really supposed to take sides but I am really hoping she will side with me on this one. Once my husband comes to a session, I know he will be REALLY a skillful at painting an entirely different picture. I am glad I get to go by myself first.


Not everything is always so black and white, so my advise is not to look at things in these terms. You will just stay in your place of resentment. Turn your frustrations into action. He's a man with redeeming qualities. Your previous post shown some accountability for your own actions that lead to this, so focus on that. Whatever you feel you can change in areas where you are also accountable, fix them. 

Meanwhile, he needs to be accountable to find a new job. It's not working for you. He finds a job that allows for his late nights because that's what he looks for. I've had both kinds of jobs. Late nights, and also super early. I prefer the late night lifestyle. I understand how he feels and the night owl thing is real. Is he pretty introverted? Doesn't like large crowds. Would rather go to a mall on a Tuesday afternoon than Saturday and finds jobs where he works weekends and stuff? Just wondering. Because those are other perks. It's hard for us to go 9-5 but I did it for my wife and kids because it wasn't a need until it was a NEED and I wonder how well you have communicated this with actions not just words?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

enealey said:


> Girl_power said:
> 
> 
> > I like how you’ve put this. This is exactly the case. My husband is just so HARD to have a discussion with. He rarely ever admits when he’s wrong. Even the kids have commented that “Daddy is never wrong” (with sarcasm). It’s exhausting to even try, so I am definitely at fault for giving up and letting this continue for so long. I am hoping and praying the counselor has some advice where we can compromise. I really don’t expect him to do a 180 and change his sleep schedule all the time, and I sure as heck am not going to start initiating sex every night either. I’m hoping she can offer advice to make some small steps that could turn into big ones later on. God help us!!
> ...


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> enealey said:
> 
> 
> > Meanwhile, he needs to be accountable to find a new job. It's not working for you. He finds a job that allows for his late nights because that's what he looks for. I've had both kinds of jobs. Late nights, and also super early. I prefer the late night lifestyle. I understand how he feels and the night owl thing is real. Is he pretty introverted? Doesn't like large crowds. Would rather go to a mall on a Tuesday afternoon than Saturday and finds jobs where he works weekends and stuff? Just wondering. Because those are other perks. It's hard for us to go 9-5 but I did it for my wife and kids because it wasn't a need until it was a NEED and I wonder how well you have communicated this with actions not just words?
> ...


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

enealey said:


> TheDudeLebowski said:
> 
> 
> > He owns his own company. He has employees. This isn’t really viable option. But I’ve come to recognize that this night owl personality is a real thing. It isn’t just a lazy guy who likes to be a kid at night. He does work hard at his job. Maybe I need to communicate more that I realize this. And true, I probably have not done a good job communicating how I feel. Again - just so exhausted to try. He may not help around the house but honestly his Mama never really taught him to help out. We are in the south amidst southern culture. It isn’t easy for a lot of women here. I grew up in the northeastern part of Canada and when I go home and visit with my family, my father and brother are true examples of how men should behave in a family. While I still respect his need to sometimes just let loose and stay up all night, there are times - such as visiting my family - where I truly feel he just needs to suck it up and show up. We all have stuff we don’t want to do in life... we push on! Am I right?
> ...


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

I truly think he honestly believes he is a victim to his genetic makeup of night-owl-ness. That this is just the way he is and he has no other option or responsibility. I hate that he is passing on this predisposition to our children.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Do you work? Full time?

And him not waking up to see your family is just plain disrespectful.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

LOL! If TAM hadnt saved my life I would sometimes wonder if this place is real or not.

Woman writes in, slams her husband for her a page and a half, then HAPPENS to mention that she doesnt like sex, doesnt want sex, has no sex drive at all, wonders why her relationship with her husband isnt progressing well, and all she gets is, "He is a horrible husband, I would of thrown him out long ago, how can you put up with this?" in response. Maybe he is just adjusting to not ever having sex trying to find something to keep him busy? I would almost bet that early on in their relationship he was rejected time and time again, so he decided to find something else to do.

OP, so sorry for your problem, and your husband IS out of line. So glad that you are seeking counseling, maybe use the time to fix yourself. THEN if he cant be fixed you can maybe move on. If this were me, I would spend more time fixing the one person I have control over......me

Wow.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> Do you work? Full time?


I don’t work. I had a part time position at our church but was let go from that because they found volunteers to do my job. That’s a whole other thing that I’m dealing with but to stay on topic... I think he always wanted me to be a mom first. And I love being a mom. But as a disabled mom, it is difficult at times. I feel like we need to work out our issues before I am in a wheelchair which is pretty much a likelihood. Because then I am stuck in this situation for good.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> LOL! If TAM hadnt saved my life I would sometimes wonder if this place is real or not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I agree with you. Not everyone is blaming him. I haven’t blamed him. They both have bad habits that need to change.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Hoosier said:


> LOL! If TAM hadnt saved my life I would sometimes wonder if this place is real or not.
> 
> *Woman writes in, slams her husband for her a page and a half, then HAPPENS to mention that she doesnt like sex, doesnt want sex, has no sex drive at all, wonders why her relationship with her husband isnt progressing well, and all she gets is, "He is a horrible husband, I would of thrown him out long ago, how can you put up with this?" * in response. Maybe he is just adjusting to not ever having sex trying to find something to keep him busy? I would almost bet that early on in their relationship he was rejected time and time again, so he decided to find something else to do.
> 
> ...


Which is the cart and which is the horse here? Did she always not like sex and this is his response.... or did she lose interest in sex because he is a slacker? Would be good to know which trend began first.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

enealey said:


> I truly think he honestly believes he is a victim to his genetic makeup of night-owl-ness. That this is just the way he is and he has no other option or responsibility. I hate that he is passing on this predisposition to our children.


I'm glad you said that because this is certainly important. While he is guilty of using this poor excuse to not compromise, I think your therapist will actually turn towards you and ask why that poor excuse works on you? 

Communication is far more than just words.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> Hoosier said:
> 
> 
> > LOL! If TAM hadnt saved my life I would sometimes wonder if this place is real or not.
> ...


Totally agree. My neglecting the problem has allowed it to persist. Of course he’s going to find something else to do... who wouldn’t? We are both to blame. It’s actually a valid point. I do not have the sexual appetite that my husband has. I’ll even venture to say I could take or leave it. I’ll let you know how counseling goes 😉


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Hoosier said:
> 
> 
> > Which is the cart and which is the horse here? Did she always not like sex and this is his response.... or did she lose interest in sex because he is a slacker? Would be good to know which trend began first.
> ...


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Which is the cart and which is the horse here? Did she always not like sex and this is his response.... or did she lose interest in sex because he is a slacker? Would be good to know which trend began first.




Imo it doesn’t matter. Have sex with your spouse!!


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

enealey said:


> Rocky Mountain Yeti said:
> 
> 
> > I fully admit that my desire for sex is much less than my husbands. That being said, I feel like his approach to this has always been condemnation, judgement and guilt. Currently, the only indication I get that he would like to have sex at all is a random jab. For instance I might say about a friend “he is really having a hard time”, to which my husband will respond “oh yeah, I know how THAT feels.” I have such a hard time initiating sex when this is the only clue I get that he wants anything to do with my body. Maybe I’m wrong here.
> ...


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> enealey said:
> 
> 
> > Rocky Mountain Yeti said:
> ...


He hasn’t initiated in a long time. But yes, he has initiated before when it is late and past when I’ve pushed my body beyond what I can take and am in pain. I feel like he doesn’t understand this or respect this about me. And yes, I have gone along with it at times and hated every minute of it.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

How about if he agrees to change his sleep hours to regular hours and limit playing video games to a set period of time (eg, Saturday from 12-4), you’ll agree to scheduled sex twice a week (eg, T and TH at 7PM)?


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

CraigBesuden said:


> How about if he agrees to change his sleep hours to regular hours and limit playing video games to a set period of time (eg, Saturday from 12-4), you’ll agree to scheduled sex twice a week (eg, T and TH at 7PM)?


I honestly don’t know how realistic it is to expect him to just change his hours. If he did, I would likely reciprocate and could commit to 2x per week. I will let you know what the counselor recommends. I honestly think that if we went to bed at the same time, that would make a huge difference. But I don’t expect that could ever happen. He’d be laying here awake and I wouldn’t like they either. This is why I’ve never seen a way out of this.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

OP,

It may come to the point H doesn't want to make the M enough of a priority to rearrange "his" life.

Alhough the expected response from him would be "now that I fully understand the importance of what you're communicating Dear Wife, I realize I now must change my hours so we can draw close again and remain marriage, how else can I help?

Or some workable variation of that.

I'm not trying to see how the M got to this stage but am attempting to start from "where things are today".

It sounds like both of you have strengths and weaknesses, I'll just leave things there. 

That said, a single high level question to you, one you must consider and have answered ahead of any blow up, is:

Are you prepared to leave H if he responds by saying he's not going to change his hours, anything else either, or much at all? What's your deal breaker or limit?

It would be tragic but is a very real possibility from the information presented. H may say let's just divorce. 

Build your support group up as you continue to resolve this with hubby. Things can't go on forever, as is. 

He may end things unexpectedly. Pls be prepared for that.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

enealey said:


> CraigBesuden said:
> 
> 
> > How about if he agrees to change his sleep hours to regular hours and limit playing video games to a set period of time (eg, Saturday from 12-4), you’ll agree to scheduled sex twice a week (eg, T and TH at 7PM)?
> ...


Many people go through periods where their sleep times are unusual and they need to change them. Shift workers deal with this all the time. It’s totally doable. He can spend one night up through the night, go to bed around 6PM with a sleeping pill or two, then get up at a normal time the next morning.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> Imo it doesn’t matter. Have sex with your spouse!!


I dunno... I'm a dude, and even I'm not game when my spouse isn't treating me like a lover/partner.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I dunno... I'm a dude, and even I'm not game when my spouse isn't treating me like a lover/partner.




In his defense, he has done this from when they started dating.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I have to say, it's kind of sad and predictable that this thread has turned into a thread about how she need to give her husband more sex. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but it's just ridiculous and sad.



From the very clear explanation of the original poster, he was like this way before 6 ever became an issue. So this tired idea that the reason he is being a jerk W is because she doesn't give him sex does not apply here. I guess when you're a hammer everything is a nail


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> I have to say, it's kind of sad and predictable that this thread has turned into a thread about how she need to give her husband more sex. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but it's just ridiculous and sad.
> 
> 
> 
> From the very clear explanation of the original poster, he was like this way before 6 ever became an issue. So this tired idea that the reason he is being a jerk W is because she doesn't give him sex does not apply here. I guess when you're a hammer everything is a nail




I’m confused, why is it sad?


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Just back from counseling. I loved my counselor and I believe she understood and empathizes with a lot of what I was saying. I felt very comfortable with her. The true test will be when H comes and tells his side. But she told me that even though she knows she is only getting one side, she believed me. Anyway, I’m emotionally exhausted now. Thanks for all your input. No this isn’t just about sex. It’s way more comolicated than that.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > I have to say, it's kind of sad and predictable that this thread has turned into a thread about how she need to give her husband more sex. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but it's just ridiculous and sad.
> ...


Because denying sex did not cause his bad behavior. His bad behavior came first. Further, he ignored her medical condition that makes it difficult to have sex at night.

There does appear to be a tendency by guys at TAW to say that the problem is the W’s behavior, especially denying sex. And same fact patterns are analyzed differently when the genders are reversed. People in similar situations should be treated similarly.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

CraigBesuden said:


> Because denying sex did not cause his bad behavior. His bad behavior came first. Further, he ignored her medical condition that makes it difficult to have sex at night.
> 
> There does appear to be a tendency by guys at TAW to say that the problem is the W’s behavior, especially denying sex. And same fact patterns are analyzed differently when the genders are reversed. People in similar situations should be treated similarly.




I didn’t say denying sex causes this bad behavior. The behavior was there when they first met. I’m saying denying sex doesn’t help with her intimacy issue.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

CraigBesuden said:


> Because denying sex did not cause his bad behavior. His bad behavior came first. Further, he ignored her medical condition that makes it difficult to have sex at night.
> 
> There does appear to be a tendency by guys at TAW to say that the problem is the W’s behavior, especially denying sex. And same fact patterns are analyzed differently when the genders are reversed. People in similar situations should be treated similarly.


Kindly, I disagree that an objective review of "problems" reveal that faults are summarily assigned as the Ws' problems on TAM. 

Other groups may say that the tendencies on TAM are to say that problems are too quick to assigning fault as the Hs not paying enough "attention" to wives.

That there are multiple camps on the ol' "fault attributing" advice and opinions topic is a good sign of broad advice options and thoughts a poster can consider.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

I have a few thoughts:

1. Yes, it is up to you as a wife to ensure that your husband is sexually fulfilled. Just like it’s also up to him to ensure that you are sexually fulfilled. It’s a mutual give-and-take thing, and you guys don’t seem to be on the same page there at all.

2. It’s high time for your husband to grow up and be a man, a husband and a Dad.

Okay, so let me get this straight: your husband would play video games or just be up having his fun while your children were babies. And when they cried at night, it was up to YOU to get up and tend to your babies? Did he get involved in that at all? If not, he sure as hell should have. 

Your sexual relationship isn’t up to you and you alone; it’s up to you both, and you both need to compromise. It sounds like he’s all about himself, and while staying healthy and going to the gym is super important, so is time with your spouse. Does he go to the gym every night? Can he maybe make it every second night so that you guys can still get some time for yourselves?

Do you look after everything around the house (cooking, cleaning, etc.)? Does he do anything to contribute? Notice, I didn’t say “help”, because it’s his house too, and you don’t need help, you need a contributing partner. I don’t need to know what disability you have, but just the fact that you have one tells me that he needs to be more aware of you and what all you take on around the house.

As for visiting family and family functions, I agree that he should be more aware that he needs to attend these with you. So, he needs to be responsible enough to realize that if he needs to be up before noon, he needs to get to bed at an earlier time. Same with church. You guys have a family; how much time does he spend with your kids? How old are your kids?

When you said what he tells you “he’s just created this way and some people are morning people and some are night owls. It’s a scientific thing”, I was reminded a lot of my own XH. This was him too: always making excuses that maybe sounded smart, but that really just worked in his favour.

Honestly, he just seems very self-centered and disrespectful of you and your marriage.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well, exactly WHEN are you supposed to be _having_ sex with Peter Pan? At 4 am when his irresponsible, ignorant ass finally turns off his childish little video game console and goes to his big boy bed?
> 
> Maybe you can plan it for noon when Mr. Wonderful finally wakes up because apparently, he's *exempt* from having to act like a grownup because his mommy wife does 100% of EVERYTHING while he's sleeping til noon every day like a 15 year old teenage kid.
> 
> ...


I love your posts; you don't sugarcoat anything, and while your delivery can be questionable at times, you tell the truth, and that's important to hear. 
@enealey one suggestion that i have is a book: "Too good to leave, too bad to stay" by Mira Kirshenbaum, and here's a link to a free readable source online:
https://www.e-reading.club/bookreader.php/142704/Kirshenbaum_-_Too_Good_to_Leave%2C_Too_Bad_to_Stay.html

I read this before my separation, while I was posting here and going to a therapist. It has diagnostic questions, and while I read, I answered the questions in a Word document that ended up being about 15 pages long. When I finished, I read my entire document, and the road and next steps were very clear.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

My husband's schedule is 4am to 12:30 pm. He goes to bed around 8:30 pm, wakes up at 2:45 am 5 nights a week. He's never had a Mon-Fri, 8-5 job. I knew this from the beginning. I have adjusted to his schedule and now I work part-time. Our kids know they have to be quiet at 8:30 pm because Dad is sleeping, they have a 9pm bedtime.

I'm more of a night owl and I can be asleep by midnight. 

Our schedules are different but for the most part it hasn't affected our marriage and family life. We both have worked towards our family goals, and we both have helped each other out when needed.

My husband suffers from a headache disorder (cluster headaches) so I know how hard it is to live with someone living with pain. If anything, the disorder has bonded us even more. 

What do you guys want to do? What are your goals as a family and as a couple? Go to marriage counseling and figure out what you need to do in order to have a happy marriage. It's possible! Even when you live in pain, even when kids are driving you crazy and husband's schedules are all over the place! Sometimes, in the afternoon when our kids are watching TV, we lock our bedroom door to have time for ourselves. 

Many things are headache triggers for my husband, including sex. He's scared of a headache but he can't help himself, he needs it, and I love his touch. 

When you are happy with someone, you figure out ways to be together. You both have to work on finding a middle ground that suits your own family's needs. Don't compare your family to other families. Don't compare your husband to your father or brother, they are different people. I tell you this because on top of everything else going on in my household, I come from South America and my husband is American. Our families are very different.

Don't give up and find ways to fix your marriage. Good luck!


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Ursula said:


> I have a few thoughts:
> 
> 1. Yes, it is up to you as a wife to ensure that your husband is sexually fulfilled. Just like it’s also up to him to ensure that you are sexually fulfilled. It’s a mutual give-and-take thing, and you guys don’t seem to be on the same page there at all.
> 
> ...


Yes when the kids were babies, because I was a nursing mother, I was the one who got up and fed them. He didn’t do absolutely nothing. Sometimes I would get a chance to go to bed early, and because he would stay up late, this meant that I could get a head start on sleep. However there were issues with that too, where if they cried, he would wake me up almost immediately. Those were hard times for sure. I think the fact that I chose to nurse meant an easy way out for him when he couldn’t soothe them. When my second child was born, she had colic pretty badly and he did work outside the home at that time. So between dealing with her at night and my two year old the next day, I was running on 2-3 hrs of sleep a night sometimes until I almost got delusional from exhaustion and he’d have to step in. 

The sex thing... yes, I do recognize that he is not fulfilled and I know for a fact that at this point he has probably given up. What would be the point of trying and/or changing his schedule if all we are going to do is watch a show? I’m guilty of allowing this to continue, because it’s easy in the moment when I’m already tired emotionally and physically. I also have two teenagers now and a 9 year old that are up late too. It shouldn’t be an excuse not to have sex, but it sure is easy to use it as one. 

As far as the gym, he doesn’t go every night... If it isn’t the gym though it’s something else like he’s still working or he’s having to take one of the kids to an activity. Our nights are busy anyway during the school year with three kids and all of them doing something different. This is more exhausting for me than it is for him. 

All the cooking and cleaning is either me, or once a week we have someone come in. This helps for things like weekly vacuuming and dusting and scrubbing bathrooms weekly... things that are difficult for me to do, but this doesn’t account for decluttering and after dinner cleanup and the daily messes that always need to be taken care of. Worth mentioning, I like a clean home. He doesn’t care one bit. So he doesn’t look around and see things that need to be done. If I ask him to help, he sometimes does it, but reluctantly and tells me my standards are too high and that I need to relax a little. So I just end up doing most of all that stuff. 

As for our kids, we have a 17 year old, 15 year old and 9 year old. He spends way more time with them than me. He takes them to movies and theme parks and vacations (some of which I don’t go on). They all stay up late... except maybe my 17 year old who has more sense... she’s always on the to and wears herself out so she’s tired by days end. 

Like I said this is one of three big issues. Divorcing is not an option at this time. I am too depending on care and if I no longer had someone to help me it would mean moving back home near my family. I am Canadian but living in the US as a permanent resident. Moving back there would be extremely difficult immigration wise to move my kids and the alternative is to be separated from them which is not an option. All this considered, I still would not choose divorce without a good effort to fix things. That is where I am now since no effort has been made prior to now.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

pastasauce79 said:


> My husband's schedule is 4am to 12:30 pm. He goes to bed around 8:30 pm, wakes up at 2:45 am 5 nights a week. He's never had a Mon-Fri, 8-5 job. I knew this from the beginning. I have adjusted to his schedule and now I work part-time. Our kids know they have to be quiet at 8:30 pm because Dad is sleeping, they have a 9pm bedtime.
> 
> I'm more of a night owl and I can be asleep by midnight.
> 
> ...


Thank you... yes I do see hope. I know people who have way more obstacles than a sleep schedule and they manage to make it work! My goal is just that... to find a way to make this work, to change how I currently feel about him, to reignite the love we used to have. It seems like such a long road, and even impossible, but if I just gave up without putting up a fight, then it would just be sad. I know some people have to come to that choice to split up and I think that is the right choice for some people... but I do think there are a lot of people who give up too easily. I don’t want to be one of those.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

It's great you are willing to fight.

Just know that no one individual can fight to save a couple. He's got to be willing to fight at your side. If he can get inspired to march into this battle as you comrade, the two of you have a fighting chance. if not.... well, a divided house can not stand.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> It's great you are willing to fight.
> 
> Just know that no one individual can fight to save a couple. He's got to be willing to fight at your side. If he can get inspired to march into this battle as you comrade, the two of you have a fighting chance. if not.... well, a divided house can not stand.


Agreed!! I’m a bit apprehensive about our next counseling session where he will be included. I feel like the counselor will be asking him some valid questions that will end up putting him on the defensive. He does not like to come off looking like he is in error or wrong about something so this should be interesting. Until then I’ll just try and relax and not get too anxious about it. Thanks everyone for your feedback. I honestly can’t see myself going on a forum to respond to other people’s problems, but the fact that each of you took the time has been great. This is no substitute for counseling obviously but it does help tremendously to get other people’s viewpoints! So now are you interested in hearing the other issues??? Haha 🙂


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Your life sounds exhausting! I really hope your kids and husband are cleaning up after themselves... ie clearing their dishes and putting them in the dishwasher etc. I think your kids are old enough to do their own laundry and everyone in the house should be cleaning up after themselves. You are not their maid and them contributing a little will take lot off your shoulders.


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## enealey (Jul 10, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> Your life sounds exhausting! I really hope your kids and husband are cleaning up after themselves... ie clearing their dishes and putting them in the dishwasher etc. I think your kids are old enough to do their own laundry and everyone in the house should be cleaning up after themselves. You are not their maid and them contributing a little will take lot off your shoulders.


Yeah the kids do their own laundry but it’s like pulling teeth to get them to put it away. I have just lately been insisting they do more. It drives me crazy how everyone puts their dishes in the sink and not dishwasher after dinner. I’m sure I’m not the only one who has THIS problem. I’m trying to get the kids in the habit this summer of doing more. During the school year, the older ones are in a pretty intensive magnet program that has them doing homework from when they get home from school until midnight sometimes so I don’t always feel like they can take time away to do too much.


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## stefanjames (Jul 15, 2019)

What do you guys want to do? What are your goals as a family and as a couple? Go to marriage counseling and figure out what you need to do in order to have a happy marriage. It's possible! Even when you live in pain, even when kids are driving you crazy and husband's schedules are all over the place! Sometimes, in the afternoon when our kids are watching TV, we lock our bedroom door to have time for ourselves.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

enealey said:


> Yes when the kids were babies, because I was a nursing mother, I was the one who got up and fed them. He didn’t do absolutely nothing. Sometimes I would get a chance to go to bed early, and because he would stay up late, this meant that I could get a head start on sleep. However there were issues with that too, where if they cried, he would wake me up almost immediately. Those were hard times for sure. I think the fact that I chose to nurse meant an easy way out for him when he couldn’t soothe them. When my second child was born, she had colic pretty badly and he did work outside the home at that time. So between dealing with her at night and my two year old the next day, I was running on 2-3 hrs of sleep a night sometimes until I almost got delusional from exhaustion and he’d have to step in.
> 
> The sex thing... yes, I do recognize that he is not fulfilled and I know for a fact that at this point he has probably given up. What would be the point of trying and/or changing his schedule if all we are going to do is watch a show? I’m guilty of allowing this to continue, because it’s easy in the moment when I’m already tired emotionally and physically. I also have two teenagers now and a 9 year old that are up late too. It shouldn’t be an excuse not to have sex, but it sure is easy to use it as one.
> 
> ...


If someone comes in to clean once a week or so, that's a boon, and the continued information provided seems promising. 

Pros and cons, much to consider. 

You and he can do it if wanting to stay together is the objective!

Good luck!


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