# 17 year old minor in possession of alcohol....



## cavenger

What do you think his punishment should be? He was not drunk but has been caught with drug paraphernalia and has used a fake Id before. 

Note that I am very strict on him and I have been trying to lead him properly to make the right choices. We still own his car and pay for his insurance so I have some leverage. I just feel this is an important decision on our approach because I could really push him away and in 6 months he is fully free to ruin his life.

In my opinion, I need tough but positive goals for him to achieve to regain our trust.


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## northernlights

What drug? And, is there a family history of alcoholism?

As far as the alcohol goes, I would have a talk with him about drinking responsibly and the dangers of impaired decision-making, alcohol poisoning, and accidents. I grew up in a small town, and we lose almost one young man a year due to either car, motorcycle, or boating accidents, accidental drowning, or other kids of accidents when they're drunk. Teenage boys all seem to think they're invincible, and I'm not even sure it's possible to convince them that they're not.

Depending on what drug you're talking about, I'd go straight to considering rehab if it's something like meth versus another talk about consequences if it's something like pot. Lots of kids have NO idea what the legal consequences of possession are. I might even see if the local jail has some kind of information program about drugs and what he could face for possession of even small amounts. 

So, I would treat it very seriously. Intervention if necessary, and lots of education.


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## cavenger

*Re: Re: 17 year old minor in possession of alcohol....*



northernlights said:


> What drug? And, is there a family history of alcoholism?
> 
> As far as the alcohol goes, I would have a talk with him about drinking responsibly and the dangers of impaired decision-making, alcohol poisoning, and accidents. I grew up in a small town, and we lose almost one young man a year due to either car, motorcycle, or boating accidents, accidental drowning, or other kids of accidents when they're drunk. Teenage boys all seem to think they're invincible, and I'm not even sure it's possible to convince them that they're not.
> 
> Depending on what drug you're talking about, I'd go straight to considering rehab if it's something like meth versus another talk about consequences if it's something like pot. Lots of kids have NO idea what the legal consequences of possession are. I might even see if the local jail has some kind of information program about drugs and what he could face for possession of even small amounts.
> 
> So, I would treat it very seriously. Intervention if necessary, and lots of education.


He had a marijuana pipe. This was about a year ago. Then he just got caught in possession of alcohol at the beach. We have had tons of discussions on the dangers of alcohol, the legal ramifications, etc. 

I am looking for scared straight for programs but no luck so far. I also want to consider volunteer opportunities where he can learn some appreciation for what he's got. I'm just trying to find the right combination .... but it all seems like a crap shoot.

Thanks for the reply.


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## Wiltshireman

As the OP does not state what “drug paraphernalia” was evolved can I just give my views on the alcohol? 

I think that the total prohibition of alcohol for under 18’s just make it more attractive to them and it can IMHO lead to it being the catalyst for further youthful rebellion .

In the UK the age limit for the purchase of all alcohol is 18 but the law on its consumption with parental (or guardians) permission are very lenient. At home or at the home of a friend any child over 5 (yes 5) can consume alcohol with parental consent and at a restaurant they can have wine / beer / cider ordered for them once they are 16. So with this in mind my wife and I have allowed our children to have a glass of wine etc with a meal at family event from the age of 16. I think that this serves to demystify drinking for the child and allows them to experience some of the effects in a safe environment. The oldest of our children (g17) has decided that she does not like alcohol or its effects and now chooses not to drink any. The next one down (g16) does like the odd glass of cider and will have one or two glasses on special occasions.

Whatever laws your area has or “house rules” you and your partner set should be respected by the children and if a child (under 18) chooses to break those then they should be aware of the consequences. In our house the first punishment for breaking the house rules is loss of privileges (mobile phone / internet access). Repeated or more serious violations get harsher treatment (longer without privileges / grounding). 

So how do I think the OP should punish their 17 year old son? That would depend on their “house rules” and if the offence if repeated the punishment should be adapted to see if an effective deterrent can be established.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

I certainly wouldn't make alcohol so available for the teens. I have an newly adult child. While she was 16 and older we locked up what little alcohol we had. I do not drink, but I cook with wine, beer, whiskey, rum, ect... Anything of value I locked up as well. My oldest often had friends over and I guess I'm not that trusting of teens. Maybe I'm overreacting, but I want to be on the safe side.

If I found any illegal substances or alcohol use I'd set up appointments for therapy. I have no clue what the correct punishment would be. I'd want to know why they were doing this in the first place. Good luck.


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## northernlights

My approach would be very different with a girl vs. a boy. In a large part that's because I have such incredibly low tolerance for alcohol, and I'm afraid my girls might follow suit. I will definitely, definitely let them have half a glass of wine when they're 16 or 17 so they can learn how it affects their bodies, and warn them from an even younger age that they should only ever expect to be able to handle 2 drinks per night max. And I will teach them about the magic of a spritzer, in case they want to go drink for drink with their friends one day. 

OP, how about any older, but still relatively young, men in the family or community that your son looks up to? I'm a big fan of reinforcing the message via the community.


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## GTdad

Cavenger, do they have anything like Teen Court in your area? We do in ours, but I don't know how widespread it is.

Basically, teens act as judge and jury for minor offenses committed by other teens. Most participate as a condition of their own punishment for some offense, but they do accept volunteers.

Two of my sons have participated as teens, and I found it an excellent way to give them perspective on what poor decision-making looks like, and the consequences.

Interestingly, those kids are hard as hell on each other.  They reach one another in ways that I'd have a hard time doing.


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## unbelievable

In Tennessee, he'd lose his driver's license. If my 17 year old was smoking dope and drinking, I'd take his license and keys. If he can't act responsibly out of your sight, his wings need to be clipped. If he can crap me Tiffany cufflinks for two or three months, maybe I'd let him drive once or twice a week with a draconian curfew. If he handled that for six months or so, I'd ease up a little more. He'd also be giving me urine samples whenever I asked and I'd give him the occasional, unannounced room search. He wouldn't like it, but that's part of the plan. Sooner or later he'll figure out that with freedom comes responsibility. Act irresponsible, lose your freedom. Prove yourself trustworthy, you get a little more freedom. For weed , I wouldn't immediately rush to rehab and unless I had evidence he was addicted to alcohol, I wouldn't assume he had a problem other than just being an ignoramus who wanted to appear cool to his buddies. We'll find out how cool he looks walking and being back in the house at 8:00pm every night. If he had a cell phone, it would become mine. The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Dad does the same. Look around his room. Anything that's not four walls and a mattress is leverage.


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## unbelievable

Work is a great character builder and so is volunteer service. I don't like using either as punishment because to me, work and volunteer service are both privileges and I don't want to equate them with punishment. I especially wouldn't want to equate volunteer service with punishment. I don't even like equating chores around the house with punishment. Family members work around the house because it's their house and they're members of the family. Whether someone's in trouble or not, things have to get done and everyone needs to do their share. I might consider having him do some research and write me a lengthy essay on teenage DUI, binge drinking, or something similar. Doing his own research, he's more likely to be convinced than by listening to me lecture. It would also give him some factual evidence he learned on his own to draw from the next time he's tempted.


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## Anon Pink

He can best learn appreciation when what he HAD is no longer in his possession. No car, no cell, no PC. He can ride his bike to where he needs to go and he can use the old fashioned telephone.

You trying to find a way to end this behavior without making it too difficult on yourself. There is no scared straight program for kids who smoke dope and drink, who are otherwise good decent kids. The programs you're talking about are for early offenders and they don't work.

Smoking dope and drinking some brewski's at the beach is SOP for a 17 year old, but that doesn't make it right. So, make it really hard for him to be a 17 year old American boy.

If he doesn't already have a job, give him one, that doesn't pay. Once he has racked up enough hours he can buy back his cell phone. More hours, his car or the use of your car.

Why would a volunteer organization want a volunteer who may or may not show up? This is why most nonprofits don't accept under 21's.


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## SadSamIAm

I must live in a different world or something.

When I was 16, I started drinking alcohol. While I never participated, virtually all my friends smoked pot. I was 16 about 35 years ago. At 16 we would find someone to buy us beer. We would drive around and drink or we would go to some local hang out spot and party. Typically someone would be a designated driver, but not always, which was pretty stupid. 

Now I have kids that are between 16 and 20. They all did 
(or are doing) the same as me. They started drinking at 16. If we had a bunch of people over, I would sometimes offer them a beer (most often they would refuse). They go to the odd party and I will often let them take a few beer from the fridge. They are much better than I was growing up about having a designated driver. They have a curfew and are always home on time or let us know if they are going to be late. 

My kids have friends who smoke pot and I am not stupid. My guess is that they have tried it and might do it some. I don't know for sure, but I would not be surprised. 

My message to them about drinking has been to be responsible. My message to them about drugs has been to stay away from it. I don't believe pot is the end of the world, but I believe it can be a start into more dangerous and addictive drugs.

My kids are all honors or slightly below. Are attending or plan on attending university. They have friends and are social and are for the most part very responsible. I think of them as normal teenagers.

Sorry, but I have a hard time relating to throwing the book at a teenager for drinking. Unless it looks like they have a problem with alcohol, or are failing school or are in trouble with the law, I would just treat is as them being a normal teenager.

Some of my friends that got in the most trouble were from homes where they weren't allowed to do anything.


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## Anon Pink

SadSamIAm said:


> I must live in a different world or something.
> 
> When I was 16, I started drinking alcohol. While I never participated, virtually all my friends smoked pot. I was 16 about 35 years ago. At 16 we would find someone to buy us beer. We would drive around and drink or we would go to some local hang out spot and party. Typically someone would be a designated driver, but not always, which was pretty stupid.
> 
> Now I have kids that are between 16 and 20. They all did
> (or are doing) the same as me. They started drinking at 16. If we had a bunch of people over, I would sometimes offer them a beer (most often they would refuse). They go to the odd party and I will often let them take a few beer from the fridge. They are much better than I was growing up about having a designated driver. They have a curfew and are always home on time or let us know if they are going to be late.
> 
> My kids have friends who smoke pot and I am not stupid. My guess is that they have tried it and might do it some. I don't know for sure, but I would not be surprised.
> 
> My message to them about drinking has been to be responsible. My message to them about drugs has been to stay away from it. I don't believe pot is the end of the world, but I believe it can be a start into more dangerous and addictive drugs.
> 
> My kids are all honors or slightly below. Are attending or plan on attending university. They have friends and are social and are for the most part very responsible. I think of them as normal teenagers.
> 
> Sorry, but I have a hard time relating to throwing the book at a teenager for drinking. Unless it looks like they have a problem with alcohol, or are failing school or are in trouble with the law, I would just treat is as them being a normal teenager.
> 
> Some of my friends that got in the most trouble were from homes where they weren't allowed to do anything.



I agree with everything you said. The trouble happens when parents don't see the trouble until its too late. A kids gotta have some fun, yes. But if the kid is getting busted, then somewhere the wires have gotten crossed and it's time pull in the freedom until they learn what to do with it.

My middle daughter got busted for smoking pot in her dorm, wasn't her room though. How STUPID can someone get for getting busted for smoking pot in a dorm? I mean really, how many kids are smoking dope, and yet it's my daughter that gets caught? That told me she wasn't using her noggin At ALL! That told me she was in the habit of risk taking, and she wasn't seeing how a pot smoking charge could have ruined her scholarship. Just stupid!

So it's not really the ones who are smoking here or there, or having a beer at times, it's when they stop thinking about the consequences when as a parent you've got to put your foot down... Until they can get back to using their brain to make better safer decisions.


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## unbelievable

There is no "responsible" way for a 17 year old to drink alcohol in the United States. It's illegal for them to buy it, illegal for them to have it, illegal for an adult to allow them to have it. I'm getting a little tired of scraping dead kids out of cars and calling ambulances for kids who drink nearly to the point of death. 
Not sure how one could argue that a 17 year old drinking liquor is ok but smoking pot isn't. I've never had fight anyone who had been smoking weed. I don't go to domestic violence cases where a guy got high on weed and beat his wife or girlfriend half to death. Even if pot smokers get behind the wheel, they usually drive 20 miles under the speed limit, stop for the police, and are the easiest folks in the world to arrest. Drinkers like to run, think they are NASCAR drivers, heavyweight boxing champions, or Ninjas. Weed's illegal in my state so I don't condone it but, even as a cop, I can't make a strong argument that pot is worse than alcohol. I think it's got more to do with who does what. Back when pot was made illegal by the federal government, rich white guys drank alcohol but rarely smoked weed.


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## Wiltshireman

"unbelievable" Obviously knows a lot more about US law than I do and whilst I agree that the danger of "pot smoking" has been overplayed in many jurisdictions I would have thought that the US could do with learning from Europe when it comes to its attitude / laws on alcohol.

In so many other areas the US law (as I understand it) has a graduated response to things (young driver rules / near age exceptions to the age of consent etc) that would appear to be more effective than the on / off prohibition of alcohol. Allowing youths to learn firsthand about the effects that drink has on them in a controlled environment (under parental supervision etc) would seem to me to be better than just leaving it all to chance.


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## SadSamIAm

Wiltshireman said:


> "unbelievable" Obviously knows a lot more about US law than I do and whilst I agree that the danger of "pot smoking" has been overplayed in many jurisdictions I would have thought that the US could do with learning from Europe when it comes to its attitude / laws on alcohol.
> 
> In so many other areas the US law (as I understand it) has a graduated response to things (young driver rules / near age exceptions to the age of consent etc) that would appear to be more effective than the on / off prohibition of alcohol. Allowing youths to learn firsthand about the effects that drink has on them in a controlled environment (under parental supervision etc) would seem to me to be better than just leaving it all to chance.


Doesn't really matter what the law is. Teenagers have been drinking alcohol for as long as it has been around. I grew up in a jurisdiction where the legal age was 19. I live in a place where it is 18. Teenagers started drinking at around 16 (when they could drive).

What matters is teaching them to be responsible about it.


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## SadSamIAm

unbelievable said:


> There is no "responsible" way for a 17 year old to drink alcohol in the United States. It's illegal for them to buy it, illegal for them to have it, illegal for an adult to allow them to have it. I'm getting a little tired of scraping dead kids out of cars and calling ambulances for kids who drink nearly to the point of death.
> Not sure how one could argue that a 17 year old drinking liquor is ok but smoking pot isn't. I've never had fight anyone who had been smoking weed. I don't go to domestic violence cases where a guy got high on weed and beat his wife or girlfriend half to death. Even if pot smokers get behind the wheel, they usually drive 20 miles under the speed limit, stop for the police, and are the easiest folks in the world to arrest. Drinkers like to run, think they are NASCAR drivers, heavyweight boxing champions, or Ninjas. Weed's illegal in my state so I don't condone it but, even as a cop, I can't make a strong argument that pot is worse than alcohol. I think it's got more to do with who does what. Back when pot was made illegal by the federal government, rich white guys drank alcohol but rarely smoked weed.


You are probably right about pot vs alcohol. My one teenager tells me the same thing.

To me, I guess it is the stigma attached to pot from when I was growing up. The cool crowd drank alcohol and the losers smoked pot. Maybe that isn't the case everywhere, but it was for me growing up.

I know it still happens far too often that teenagers get drunk, drive and get in accidents. But I have been very impressed with my kids and their friends in regards to this. They plan their nights out and know who is driving and who is drinking. When I was growing up we were idiots. Often it was whoever drank the least got to drive.

How long have you been a cop? Do you see teenagers on the whole being more responsible today? Just curious.


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## turnera

I would set a rule, assuming you haven't already set one up and he broke it by doing this: 

If you get caught with alcohol again, you will lose your car until you do 15 hours of 'community service' of my choosing. If you get caught again, you'll lose it for the rest of the school year. And so on. This is your one and only warning - do you want to do it anyway and lose your wheels, or do you want to tell your friends no thanks and get to keep the car? Your choice.


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## turnera

Down here, the county is going after adults who give kids access to alcohol, if a car death is involved. They just arrested a woman last week for that.

Two arrested for providing booze to minors - Your Houston News: News


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## Wiltshireman

turnera said:


> Down here, the county is going after adults who give kids access to alcohol, if a car death is involved. They just arrested a woman last week for that.
> 
> Two arrested for providing booze to minors - Your Houston News: News


IMHO The adults should be prosecuted for "allowing a drunk to drive". I have taken the keys of many a potential drink driver (not just teenagers) and put them behind the bar / in the kitchen draw for collection the following lunch time.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Cavenger:

Given that your son has been caught 3 times (fake id, drug paraphernalia, drinking underage), I would ASSUME he's rather hard-headed and NOT amenable to learning his lesson. If he's been caught THRICE, how many OTHER TIMES has he been making these same BAD choices WITHOUT being caught?

Also, given that he will be an adult in 6 months and LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE for his behavior...I think you're beyond 'punishing' him! You're right, in 6 months he could COMPLETELY screw up his life and there is NOTHING that you can do about it! Legally, NOTHING. 

If you have been having 'consequences' talks with him all along (since 13/14 years old), then he KNOWS the consequences. If he continues to make poor choices, there is TRULY nothing you can do, but love him and try to stand by him until he matures.

If you have only recently started having 'consequences' talks with him, then it's too late. The window of opportunity is CLOSED.

For your son, I would say:
1.) Have him look up the state guidelines for ADULTS aged 18-20 who are caught with alcohol. Tell him he needs to know WHAT the consequences are likely to be in the near future as you will NO LONGER be able to protect him from bad/poor choices.

2.) Tell him, that as this is his 3rd strike, you will no longer be funding his car once he turns 18yo. He needs to get a job and start paying for his lifestyle. If he is going to continue to learn THE HARD WAY and make poor choices, his life is about to get a lot more expensive. Tell him he is free to make whatever choices he wants as long as he understands that HE will be dealing with the consequences and that YOU are NOT going to be footing the bill for it now that he's an adult. You'll still love him, and still be available to talk to, but you're not going to run ANY interference for him and the natural consequences of his choices.

I have an EXTREMELY hard-headed 15yo. She is one who has to DO IT ALL *HER* way...okay. I work hard to keep the lines of communication open and to explain to her the short- and long-term consequences of her choices/actions...both to herself and others. She KNOWS the day is fast-approaching when SHE ALONE will be responsible for her choices!

.


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## turnera

When DD22 was about 14, I told her flat out that if she ever got arrested for anything, she'd better plan to learn to like the jail, cos I would NOT be bailing her out. If she's old enough to decide to break a law, she's old enough to pay the bill.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

I'm with you, turnera!

When dd was 13yo, I explained that once she turned 18yo, there was NOTHING I could do to help her...just be there and love her!

If she signed on the dotted line, she was JOINING THE ARMY (whether she changed her mind or not)...her mouth fell open! I told her if she signed the contract, she would be making 12 monthly payments on that apartment, even if she changed her mind about living there! I *think* she got the point!!


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## golfergirl

SadSamIAm said:


> I must live in a different world or something.
> 
> When I was 16, I started drinking alcohol. While I never participated, virtually all my friends smoked pot. I was 16 about 35 years ago. At 16 we would find someone to buy us beer. We would drive around and drink or we would go to some local hang out spot and party. Typically someone would be a designated driver, but not always, which was pretty stupid.
> 
> Now I have kids that are between 16 and 20. They all did
> (or are doing) the same as me. They started drinking at 16. If we had a bunch of people over, I would sometimes offer them a beer (most often they would refuse). They go to the odd party and I will often let them take a few beer from the fridge. They are much better than I was growing up about having a designated driver. They have a curfew and are always home on time or let us know if they are going to be late.
> 
> My kids have friends who smoke pot and I am not stupid. My guess is that they have tried it and might do it some. I don't know for sure, but I would not be surprised.
> 
> My message to them about drinking has been to be responsible. My message to them about drugs has been to stay away from it. I don't believe pot is the end of the world, but I believe it can be a start into more dangerous and addictive drugs.
> 
> My kids are all honors or slightly below. Are attending or plan on attending university. They have friends and are social and are for the most part very responsible. I think of them as normal teenagers.
> 
> Sorry, but I have a hard time relating to throwing the book at a teenager for drinking. Unless it looks like they have a problem with alcohol, or are failing school or are in trouble with the law, I would just treat is as them being a normal teenager.
> 
> Some of my friends that got in the most trouble were from homes where they weren't allowed to do anything.


You have to be Canadian. That is how I grew up and how my kids friends are. Like every kid I know. Honors, religious, family oriented, working etc. they get caught for public intoxication, they get hauled to the drunk tank and go home when sober. The odd 360 fine is handed out. Get caught with weed? Unless enough to sell it is just confiscated. Hard to come down heavy when so widely accepted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl

OP, my son is 17. He went partying with friends and got drunk. He didn't notice his designated driver was drunk and they crashed. My son was in a week long coma and not expected to live and later when prognosis improved, expected to be a vegetable forever. He is a miracle. He is 95% back. He will graduate on time and is back to work and driving again. His'buddy' goes to court next week and possible jail time. My son can never drink again. Thank God he appreciates his second chance and respects that. He is a good kid, just made a mistake that almost cost him his life and me my oldest son. Until this accident, I don't know how I could have stopped him though. Some peer groups it is so widely accepted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable

I've been a cop for a little over 31 years, including military law enforcement. The U.S. isn't Europe. A German kid can drink beer, hop on the bus or train and go wherever they wish. They don't let their 16 year old's drive. In most of the U.S., people have to drive to get around. I lived in Germany four years. People drink over there but being obviously drunk is really socially frowned upon. The laws are hell on DUI, too. There again, the law can take a German's license and that person can still survive. Over here, if the court takes one's license, it mostly means they'll drive illegally. A public bus doesn't run by my house and it probably doesn't run by your's, either, if you're an American. 
I've never seen a German kid binge drink (I'm sure it must happen). Getting crap-faced seems to be the goal of most kids I find drinking. When I was a kid, we'd drink a little beer but we weren't trying to get as close to death's door as we possibly could. 
Being obviously drunk was very uncool. Now, there seems to be a contest to see who can pass out the quickest.


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## SadSamIAm

unbelievable said:


> I've been a cop for a little over 31 years, including military law enforcement. The U.S. isn't Europe. A German kid can drink beer, hop on the bus or train and go wherever they wish. They don't let their 16 year old's drive. In most of the U.S., people have to drive to get around. I lived in Germany four years. People drink over there but being obviously drunk is really socially frowned upon. The laws are hell on DUI, too. There again, the law can take a German's license and that person can still survive. Over here, if the court takes one's license, it mostly means they'll drive illegally. A public bus doesn't run by my house and it probably doesn't run by your's, either, if you're an American.
> I've never seen a German kid binge drink (I'm sure it must happen). Getting crap-faced seems to be the goal of most kids I find drinking. When I was a kid, we'd drink a little beer but we weren't trying to get as close to death's door as we possibly could.
> Being obviously drunk was very uncool. Now, there seems to be a contest to see who can pass out the quickest.



The kids here have this thing where they 'pre drink' before going out to the clubs. They will get together at someones house and drink shots to get drunk before going out. I hate it. 

The idea is to drink a bunch before going because the drinks are so expensive at the bar/club.


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## Lyris

turnera said:


> I would set a rule, assuming you haven't already set one up and he broke it by doing this:
> 
> If you get caught with alcohol again, you will lose your car until you do 15 hours of 'community service' of my choosing. If you get caught again, you'll lose it for the rest of the school year. And so on. This is your one and only warning - do you want to do it anyway and lose your wheels, or do you want to tell your friends no thanks and get to keep the car? Your choice.


Now there's an incentive to get really good at sneaking and lying.


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## turnera

Lyris said:


> Now there's an incentive to get really good at sneaking and lying.


 Or to - heaven forbid - decide not to drink in the first place.


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## Lyris

I prefer to work within what is most likely, given the personality of my child/ren, the realities of their social landscape and what has generally been shown to historically not work.

Prohibition=does not work. 

Control of most spirited, determined children, which mine certainly are, will result in a breakdown of our relationship and make it more likely that they will make bad, unsafe choices and hide them from me. Forbidding them alcohol and applying increasingly draconian punishments for infractions may stop them from drinking. It's more likely to make them better at deception.

I don't want my kids to be the ones too scared to call an ambulance if they or a friend has alcohol poisoning or a bad drug experience. I want them safe and alive more than I want to pretend they will always do what I think is best.


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## turnera

Funny, I achieved the exact same thing, while still explaining boundaries and consequences. DD22 considers me her best friend. I know everything that goes on in her life. And I'm the first person she calls when she's in trouble. But she also knows if she screws up, I won't let her out of the consequences. She's ok with that, because she knows it's logical, and it's what a kid has to go through to learn how to navigate life. It's called Authoritative Parenting, wherein you have high expectations but you also support them. It's considered the best method of parenting.

Authoritative Parenting - What Is Authoritative Parenting


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## Lyris

I know what authoritative parenting is. My parents were great authoritative parents. I still hid a lot of stuff from them. 

I'm glad your daughter turned out so well. But you and I are going to disagree on most parenting issues, since I remember you telling someone in another thread that allowing a four year old to sleep in bed with them was damaging to the child. That's certainly not supported in any credible psychological literature, if anything, quite the opposite.


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## Anon Pink

George529 said:


> Anon, what punishment did your daughter get for it?
> 
> About a year ago a friends 18 year old daughter got arrested for getting drunk behind the wheel and crashing into a stop sign of all things, as well as having weed in her car.
> 
> Ended up doing lots of community service and being on probation for 2 years only to get caught with weed again 6 months later, now she's in prison.
> 
> I've already told my daughter the danger of drugs and alcohol but ultimately if she gets arrested I'm not bailing her out.


The campus punishment was a joke. Community service and she had to write an essay and appear before the judicial board. If it happened again she would have been expelled. She was on scholarship for athletics, so I know he coach pulled some strings.

The real punishment came when she came home for the summer. I let her believe we would not be sending her back since she turned into a child we thought wasn't ready to go away to school. She spent the summer working her butt off to prove she was ready. We made her stay in the dorm for another year just to prove that she could deal with decision making on her own before we would let her move to off campus housing.


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## SadSamIAm

turnera said:


> Funny, I achieved the exact same thing, while still explaining boundaries and consequences. DD22 considers me her best friend. I know everything that goes on in her life. And I'm the first person she calls when she's in trouble. But she also knows if she screws up, I won't let her out of the consequences. She's ok with that, because she knows it's logical, and it's what a kid has to go through to learn how to navigate life. It's called Authoritative Parenting, wherein you have high expectations but you also support them. It's considered the best method of parenting.
> 
> Authoritative Parenting - What Is Authoritative Parenting


My wife says the same thing about her relationship with our daughters. That they tell her everything and that they are best friends.

What my daughters tell me is that they tell their mother what their mother wants to hear!


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## Freak On a Leash

SadSamIAm said:


> Doesn't really matter what the law is. Teenagers have been drinking alcohol for as long as it has been around. I grew up in a jurisdiction where the legal age was 19. I live in a place where it is 18. Teenagers started drinking at around 16 (when they could drive).
> 
> What matters is teaching them to be responsible about it.


:iagree: My 18 year old daughter drinks. So do her friends. Long ago, I had the "talk" with her, laid down the ground rules. No driving when drunk, if she's caught drinking or in possession of alcohol (here you lose your license until 21 if caught underaged drinking) then it's her problem. 

If she drives while intoxicated she'd better HOPE the cops get to her first! I've told her time after time that all she needs to do is call me and I will come and get her and any of her friends or if I'm not around, she should call a taxi and I will pay her for the cost of it. No problem, no questions asked. One reason I LIKE my daughter having her own car is that I WANT her to be the one who drives! I KNOW she's a good driver, a responsible one and isn't out to prove anything to anyone. I have told her that I'd prefer if she drove herself rather than drive with someone else. I've told her that if she's EVER not comfortable riding in someone else's car she should call a cab or me. 

If I were to find out she's driving drunk then I WILL cancel her car insurance. I pay for her insurance and the deal is, if she does ANYTHING to make her insurance rates go up then she pays the increase. If she drives drunk then it's instant cancellation. I have a zero tolerance policy against stupid driving in general. One time, when she had her permit and I was riding with her she was tailgating and I told her to back off. She made a sarcastic remark and I had her pull over and gave her a 20 minute lecture about how if I saw her drive like that again I was going to not only cancel her insurance but render her car inoperable. She knows that I don't bluff and that I'm more than capable of doing just that. 

Almost 2 years after she got her license I've had no problems with anything. She has worked since the age of 15, puts herself through college, is a straight A student and is paying for her own car. This is a responsible young adult that I have faith in to do the right thing. I've never had ANY reason not to trust her. We have a great relationsip and have always communicated openly and honestly. 

IMO, it's a foolish parent who thinks that their 17 year old isn't out partying their a$s off. I did it, my daughter does it. Better to be realistic and lay down the rules and communicate effectively, lay down the rules and be ready to enforce them. 

I have given my daughter alcohol in the privacy of our own home. I just HAD to demonstrate that canned beer is vastly superior to bottled, especially Blue Moon.  So yes, I have given her a beer a few times here and there, usually on the family camping trip or BBQ.

However I WILL not allow HER friends to drink in MY home. That's just crazy because at the very least you'll have to deal with their parents if something happens and you COULD be facing some serious litigation in many states for allowing minors that aren't your children to drink in your home. 

I have made it very clear to my daughter that drinking is NOT allowed in my absence, without my supervision in our home and her friends are NOT allowed to do it all. I do not want to be open to problems or litigation by allowing or encouraging other people's minor children to drink. No freakin' way! I think these parents who serve liquor to minors are crazy. Maybe back in the '70s it was fine but the laws and attitudes have changed since then and you can't apply the same standards now.

I've never had any problems. I know my daughter and her friends had alcohol at the house they rented after the Senior Prom. I know she drinks up at college. I also know that she is a responsible drinker. She's responsible in general.

She's also tells ME whenever I go out to a bar that if I am too drunk to drive I should call HER. Now THAT'S a good kid! :smthumbup:

IMO Parenting isn't about controlling your kids, it's about teaching them to be smart, responsible, independent adults who accept the consequences of their actions. You do it, you own it. That's how it is in my house. 

As for drugs, we've discussed that. I know she's tried pot and doesn't like it. "Does nothing for me." Ok, she experimented and that's to be expected byt I take car to stress that drugs are a real problem because you can be put in jail a lot faster then if you get caught underage drinking. They are ILLEGAL. Period. And for THAT reason alone should be avoided (among other reasons). 

That said, if my kids were acting as if they were addicted or had a real drinking problem I'd be dealing with this differently but I feel that my daughter is just acting normally. If you have socially active teenagers that tells you they don't drink and you believe them, then you are seriously deluding yourself. Better to live in the real world.


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## Freak On a Leash

turnera said:


> Funny, I achieved the exact same thing, while still explaining boundaries and consequences. DD22 considers me her best friend. I know everything that goes on in her life. And I'm the first person she calls when she's in trouble. But she also knows if she screws up, I won't let her out of the consequences. She's ok with that, because she knows it's logical, and it's what a kid has to go through to learn how to navigate life. It's called Authoritative Parenting, wherein you have high expectations but you also support them. It's considered the best method of parenting.
> 
> Authoritative Parenting - What Is Authoritative Parenting


Yep...That would be my style of parenting. Notice the diffence between _Authoritarian_ and _Authoritative_. Two very different things. One is about control and not existing in reality when it comes to their children. The other is about raising a responsible, independent adult. IMO THAT is the goal of parenting.


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## turnera

SadSamIAm said:


> My wife says the same thing about her relationship with our daughters. That they tell her everything and that they are best friends.
> 
> What my daughters tell me is that they tell their mother what their mother wants to hear!


 Trust me, I wish that were the case. I know exactly how far she has gone with boys, I know exactly why her last boyfriend kicked her out of his apartment, and I know her confusion in being able to say she is still a virgin since she showered with a boy and touched bodies but didn't penetrate. I hear it all.


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## turnera

Freak On a Leash said:


> I know she's tried pot and doesn't like it. "Does nothing for me."


Same here. She's tried it three times, couldn't figure out the appeal, won't stay in someone's apartment if they're holding cos she doesn't want to jeapordize her career.


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