# STBX had a stroke, how would you feel?



## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

Hi guys,

So to sum things up I found out my stbx was having an affair last summer. He didn't want to work on our marriage and put me through hell with the lies and heartbreak. 

The kids and I stayed for about a year though due to financial reasons and just last month we finally left so that I could accept this and move on.

Well few weeks ago, he calls me to let me know he hasn't been feeling well. I expressed to him that I felt bad that he was alone and we should be there as a family and this is what marriage is about, being there for each other.

His response was- "I know but this doesn't change how I feel. I wasn't happy and I didn't want to drag you down with me."

Well turns out the reason why he was ill was due to a stroke. 

It's strange though, after everything he put me through and finally disconnecting myself from him--- I wasn't that sad???

I mean I care for him and wish him the best, but at this point he's not my responsibility.

Anyway, guess I'm just wondering how would you feel or react to finding out your stbx had a stroke?


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

I'm in a similar boat, as far as finding out my STBX was having an affair in February, he said he didn't want to work on the marriage, went through hell with all the lies and insensitive comments until he finally moved out when it was convenient for him.

I understand what you're saying. He sometimes mentions to me that he isn't sleeping well, or he hasn't been feeling well, or his stomach is bothering him, and I think, "So? I've had all that going on every day since February." If it turned out something were seriously wrong that I would have helped and supported him through if we were still together, it would make me feel a little sad at first that we weren't still together when it happened. But then I'd remember that was his choice. If he needed my help, I'd do what I could - he is still my son's father. But my heart wouldn't ache for him like it would had none of this ridiculous year have happened.


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## Sandy321 (Jul 21, 2015)

I got word to the girl who had recently dumped him to come to the hospital. She refused. I remain as his caretaker. I am left wondering if we would have stayed together otherwise. I am now trapped. 

It's possible that guilt played a part in the stroke. It's difficult for me to not look at this as a karma bus incident, but I am collateral damage if that's the case. It is fortunate for you that you physically separated before this happened. No one can blame you for leaving him helpless.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

bbgirl said:


> Anyway, guess I'm just wondering how would you feel or react to finding out your stbx had a stroke?


If my ex had a stroke I would be shattered. He's my ex but we share a son and I would be devastated for both him and myself. Although we had a horrible marriage that needed to end he is still a good person and I would never want any harm to come to him.

It's bizarre how some people can just shut off any care for a previous spouse. Even though it ended, there must have been something once that made you choose that person. Noone chooses to marry someone who is pure evil, unless that person is seriously messed up themselves.

If people had more compassion for their exes as human beings, divorce would be far less ugly.


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## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

sapientia said:


> If people had more compassion for their exes as human beings, divorce would be far less ugly.



I totally agree. I have been so nice and compassionate during this process, although too nice I think that he's taken advantage of me. I have no agenda to be ugly or get revenge. I just want peace, what's rightfully mine, and to move on. I hope he wants the same.


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## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> But my heart wouldn't ache for him like it would had none of this ridiculous year have happened.


That's how I feel, after everything he put me through I'm just numb I guess. Last year after I found out about the affair, he was diagnosed with skin cancer. I was devastated. 

All is well thank God but then now with this recent health issue, I'm not as devastated as I was because of how far he pushed me away and hurt me.

I will add that he's doing ok, it wasn't anything major. So maybe that's why I also feel ok. Now if it was something serious or life threatening, I know I'd feel differently.


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## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

Sandy321 said:


> It is fortunate for you that you physically separated before this happened. No one can blame you for leaving him helpless.



You are right. This was his choice, to be alone. We knew months in advance that I was leaving with the kids, he never once tried to stop me or change my mind. He was ready to move on.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

If my husband had an affair and left me for her and had a stroke I would not feel any responsibility to care for him and if he asked I'd tell him to have his mistress take care of him.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

bbgirl said:


> I totally agree. I have been so nice and compassionate during this process, although too nice I think that he's taken advantage of me. I have no agenda to be ugly or get revenge. I just want peace, what's rightfully mine, and to move on. I hope he wants the same.


It was hard at the time, but I would strongly recommend the high road. Be fair; even prepared to give a little if you can afford to and keep the peace. I was thinking of my son the entire time and, now looking back, I am so glad I did.

In my case I was the one doing the leaving, so I was conscious of the effect on his pride. I had a great lawyer and I had to put the brakes on her to make sure my ex felt more than fairly treated. I lost a relatively trivial amount compared to what I might have gotten in a fight, but in the end the cost to my son would have been much higher. Not a price I was willing to pay.

Every breakup is different. Mine was quite civilized, based on what I've read here. Both people need to feel fairly treated. If my ex feels that he did slightly better than me in our divorce, it's paid in dividends since to me (he got the house, I got the cash and leveraged it to great success) and he can't complain now. Take the high road and the long view.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

He didn't contact you untill he needed a nurse because his floozy dumped him. Some people don't deserve families. Some people die alone under the indifferent care of strangers.


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## Sandy321 (Jul 21, 2015)

Runs like Dog said:


> He didn't contact you untill he needed a nurse because his floozy dumped him. Some people don't deserve families. Some people die alone under the indifferent care of strangers.


There is a saying that you should treat your children well because they choose your nursing home. It's applicable to spouses as well.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I'm sorry. My former boyfriend had a stroke. He wasn't feeling well for weeks I guess, had gone to a doctor and been diagnosed with stress headaches, with admonitions to return if he didn't improve. He didn't and he didn't return, instead he did what most people do when they're stressed for time, money, etc. So, he had a major stroke. Even I missed it and I have a medical background. So, he almost died. 

Hindsight's 20-20. You can't change your actions in the past or second-guess saying you should have known because you were close to him (at one time) or just because he said to you that he wasn't feeling well. You weren't with him 24-7 and even if you were, the signs of stroke are so difficult to miss that there are huge public education campaigns to make people more aware of them, and then even so, they remain difficult to detect until one's in progress. Even then, you might think it was something else that will get better on its own or is not requiring immediate care...

The thing to do now is to see if you can make sure he gets all the care and resources that he needs. Certainly his ability to support himself and children will be compromised. If you have any kind of visitation, I would recommend seeking a guardian ad litem to figure out how that will happen while the kids are kept safe and he gets his due as a parent so long as it was justified prior to the stroke. In terms of finances, if he is disabled and is getting Social Security then your kids should also be qualified so you might need to talk to an attorney and/or SSA to figure that out. I don't mean to be crass and talking about money, don't think about it as benefitting from someone's misfortune but making sure that he is still able to contribute to his kids without having to worry about income while he rehabilitates. 

You will also need to educate your kids about stroke and its effects. A social worker could be handy, or a support group.

I'm sorry. It's not easy. Sometimes people change after a stroke, they might have lower motivation or even personality change. 

But don't feel guilty. You couldn't have known. 

Now it's just adjustment, economically, socially, emotionally.

It could have been the stress and the sex that caused his stroke. :-|
Well, along with lifestyle and predisposition.

Anyhow, you could go through the divorce but check with an attorney first. Legal separation might be better, depending on the income needs with SSA. :=( I see from re-rereading that you're still married. If he can't make good decisions while post-stroke he might not even be able to get divorced as it wouldn't legally stick, him being cognitively compromised. So, you might be able to act as his legal guardian, which is what happens when people in their right minds get married...

If you do divorce or whatever, don't feel guilty. 
There is a fine line between caring and codependency.
You might feel that people will judge and some people will. Probably the people that have problems with codependency and think that one person should throw themselves after a person making wrong choices and marching down the path towards death.


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## Tango in Triple Time (Jul 14, 2015)

Runs like Dog said:


> He didn't contact you untill he needed a nurse because his floozy dumped him. Some people don't deserve families. Some people die alone under the indifferent care of strangers.


Bingo.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I'd feel bad for him like I'd feel for any other person who had a stroke, but I would feel no compulsion to physically care for him or his property. I'd tell him his sex kitten can do that, or his parents. 

I would probably let him take at least a temporary hiatus on paying child support if he was missing work, and I'd take the kids as much as he wanted (we currently have 50/50).


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

sapientia said:


> It's bizarre how some people can just shut off any care for a previous spouse. Even though it ended, there must have been something once that made you choose that person. Noone chooses to marry someone who is pure evil, unless that person is seriously messed up themselves.
> 
> If people had more compassion for their exes as human beings, divorce would be far less ugly.


Its called complicated grief...They are stuck in the anger phase...DUDE


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> Its called complicated grief...They are stuck in the anger phase...DUDE


Lets also remember ANGER is the easiest emotion and can hide hurt/pain.....Sometimes prevent the person from looking inward to how they even contributed to a failed marriage. Does that mean you should become a caregiver for your ex? Maybe not, BUT you would certainly care if you've worked through the anger stage properly.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Dude007 said:


> Its called complicated grief...They are stuck in the anger phase...DUDE


Not anger. Indifference.
My ex's health is not great, and wasn't when he left. If I got a call from him or his family I wouldn't probably say, gee, that's too bad.

Under no circumstances would I become his caretaker. I was fired from that position.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

My take:
So sorry you had a stroke. I know this is hard on you. I pray that your recovery is quick. 

But under no circumstances should you allow him to move back in. He still has his bitterness towards you. Let him in and he will drain you dry.

He made his bed. You are no longer in it. Go thru with your divorce. Don't let anyone guilt you into taking him back. Stay strong.


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## McDean (Jun 13, 2015)

No one ever said you have to be married to be supportive. Given the choices he made you need to decide for yourself what level of support you think is appropriate, had he been just a friend what would you be willing to do? Read a lot on being stuck in the anger phase vs. compassion and so on....truth be told, actions people take have consequences, it's not your job to be Mother Teresa because his choices blew up in his face. Nor does it make you heartless because you feel less responsibility for him than maybe you would have at one point before his misdeeds. Sometimes it's easier to be a helper from a friend perspective anyway because the other person knows you can walk and don't have to be there for them really, so they are more appreciative....as for anger, I don't think enough people on this site are angry (true I have an anger issue lol), but in the end what are the statistics for people who were cheated on in their first marriage so high for the second marriage to repeat (70%ish)? Most of of come here as the person dumped, betrayed, overlooked, mistreated etc....maybe it's time we collectively tell the rest of them who can't seemingly manage a commitment nor their emotions etc. to go 'pound sand'...like the quote, 'never push a loyal person to the point where they longer dive a damn!'.....karma is a b1tch!


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

McDean said:


> No one ever said you have to be married to be supportive. Given the choices he made you need to decide for yourself what level of support you think is appropriate, had he been just a friend what would you be willing to do? Read a lot on being stuck in the anger phase vs. compassion and so on....truth be told, actions people take have consequences, it's not your job to be Mother Teresa because his choices blew up in his face. Nor does it make you heartless because you feel less responsibility for him than maybe you would have at one point before his misdeeds. Sometimes it's easier to be a helper from a friend perspective anyway because the other person knows you can walk and don't have to be there for them really, so they are more appreciative....as for anger, I don't think enough people on this site are angry (true I have an anger issue lol), but in the end what are the statistics for people who were cheated on in their first marriage so high for the second marriage to repeat (70%ish)? Most of of come here as the person dumped, betrayed, overlooked, mistreated etc....maybe it's time we collectively tell the rest of them who can't seemingly manage a commitment nor their emotions etc. to go 'pound sand'...like the quote, 'never push a loyal person to the point where they longer dive a damn!'.....karma is a b1tch!


And sometimes, the betrayed become cheaters themselves in future relationships. Thats jacked up!


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> It was hard at the time, but I would strongly recommend the high road. Be fair; even prepared to give a little if you can afford to and keep the peace. I was thinking of my son the entire time and, now looking back, I am so glad I did.
> 
> In my case I was the one doing the leaving, so I was conscious of the effect on his pride. I had a great lawyer and I had to put the brakes on her to make sure my ex felt more than fairly treated. I lost a relatively trivial amount compared to what I might have gotten in a fight, but in the end the cost to my son would have been much higher. Not a price I was willing to pay.



I agree. I took the high road during divorce and never stooped to my ex's level. I kept my children out of it and, as a result, they've did amazing through the process and I still take that stance today even when he acts like an ass. It was a great learning experience for me to learn how to control my emotions and learn to react with calm and sanity even when provoked. It also enforced that I need to care more about my children's needs than my own.

Those lessons serve me well everyday.

However, I wouldn't wish any ill will on my ex but if he had a stroke or died...I can't say that I'd really care.

My ex tried to take my children away from me. Not that he ever had a chance but if he had his way, I wouldn't have ever seen my kids again so I feel absolutely nothing for him.

So if something happened to him...my primary concern would simply be my children and how they were feeling and helping them deal with it.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Like the OP, I've taken the high road in all our divorce proceedings, to the point where friends say I'm being way too nice. I never badmouth him to our son - I didn't do that even when he spent a week with the OW (she had to fly down from another state to do that) at his house 10 minutes away in the same town the next week after he moved out. His own lawyer has commented that it's the most civil divorce (dissolution, actually) that he's ever seen.

My indifference towards my STBX isn't unresolved anger. It's the natural result of detaching from someone who over time and much consideration, I've come to realize does not love me, has no empathy for me whatsoever, and is not my friend, regardless of what he might think or say to the contrary.

The OP didn't mention if her STBX's OW is still in the picture. It sounds like she isn't. Or she is, but he's seeking support and empathy from someone he realizes he can count on more than he can her. I'd have the same response either way. I wouldn't be glad he was seriously ill. And I'd probably even help him to some extent if he asked me to. But that would be for my son's sake and because I'd feel it was the right thing to do, not for his sake or because I love him. I don't anymore.


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## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

Lots of advice/responses, thanks everyone.

I will add that I am far away in another state. So being there physically for him is not an option. He didn't even feel the need to ask me to be there for him anyway....sooooo yha.... I wouldn't jump on a plane unless he tugged on my heart and said the right things.

Someone nailed it when they said- "it's called complicated grief".

I think I'm numb from the emotional trauma I've been through the past year. He was downright hurtful, deceitful, and a plain jerk to put it nicely. Even when I believed him, he was still telling lies. Left the state twice and met up with the OW. He lied to me and the kids, said he was on a business trip. I knew better, he lied not only to me but to his job. Almost put his career on the line.

But through it all I've been nice, civil, and allowed him to manipulate and walk all over me. I was in denial that our marriage was over so yha, I looked like a fool asking him over and over again why....why...why...why??? And how, how could he do this to me and the kids.

So for me, at this point I'm numb from it all. Maybe it's a good thing I don't feel anything? Maybe it's a sign that I'm moving on?

I will also add that he is doing well....thankfully was nothing major and he's out of the hospital. Even back in the gym working out as I saw a photo on a social networking site (we haven't deleted each other yet...weird I know).

And he called me just now (today is our daughters birthday) but only to ask about an app for coupons at a shoe store. Nice, right? lol


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## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> My indifference towards my STBX isn't unresolved anger. It's the natural result of detaching from someone who over time and much consideration, I've come to realize does not love me, has no empathy for me whatsoever, and is not my friend, regardless of what he might think or say to the contrary.


Yes, thank you! You said it well....I'm not angry at him (though I did go through my share of rage) but at this point, I'm just DONE. Done with the BS and feeling like I didn't meet his expectations. Trust me, I've heard all the reasons why I was not good enough for him.

But it's ok for him to lie and cheat (not once, but twice) and yet he thinks he's so great???

Ok enough bashing...what it all comes down to is I've disconnected myself from him because like you said- they have no empathy and is not a friend. 

He can try a little harder if he wants to make our future relationship (for the kids) better.


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## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

brooklynAnn said:


> .
> 
> He made his bed. You are no longer in it. Go thru with your divorce. Don't let anyone guilt you into taking him back. Stay strong.


That's exactly how I see it, thanks!


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Your story mirrors mine in many ways.

My STBX lied about going to see her out of state, too - to me and our son. He told me he was visiting friends of ours. When I found out two months later where he'd really been, I thought our friends had betrayed me, too. He admitted they even all had dinner together, like they were already an established couple, and I didn't exist. I asked him how they could do this, when they'd just visited us at our house the year before and took us both out to a concert we all had a great time at. He goes, "They've known our marriage has been over for years. You should have known that, too." Rewriting marital history. Gas lighting. Lie. When I asked them about it, they said he told them we were already separated, I initiated the separation, and I was "fine" with him seeing other women. All lies. They were appalled to learn he had lied to them, too, and admitted they still should have turned down the dinner invitation, because what he described "didn't seem like" me.

He had an opportunity when he saw how much it hurt me that they would betray me (I've known them for 27 years) to for once tell the truth and admit he lied to them, or at least misled them, but he chose to cover his own @ss instead. 

There's that lack of empathy. There have been several other instances of that. So I don't believe a word he says anymore. He keeps digging the grave for what was our friendship deeper, and then seems to be amazed that I've lost all compassion for him.

Like I've said here before, let me help you with the "Why." I struggled with it for months, myself, and got nothing but [email protected] answers from him when I asked, like "It just happened" and "I wasn't thinking." Why did they really do this? Because they are lacking in moral character. They are not good people who made a bad choice. They are not good people, period. That's really all there is to it. Sometimes, cheaters can fully repent and fix their marriages. But generally, the ones who do this recognize and admit they are deeply flawed human beings.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

bbgirl said:


> Someone nailed it when they said- "it's called complicated grief".


You are welcome, I'm hear to help! DUDE


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> Like I've said here before, let me help you with the "Why." I struggled with it for months, myself, and got nothing but [email protected] answers from him when I asked, like "It just happened" and "I wasn't thinking." Why did they really do this? Because they are lacking in moral character. They are not good people who made a bad choice. They are not good people, period. That's really all there is to it. Sometimes, cheaters can fully repent and fix their marriages. But generally, the ones who do this recognize and admit they are deeply flawed human beings.


Beanie,

You have this all wrong, THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS, not deeply flawed. You, on the other hand are an exceptional human being and wouldn't cheat so go you!!! If they are deeply flawed they out number us 10 to 1 and we are all deeply flawed in our own way. Humans are self-destructive by nature but you know this, you just thought he was like you and he wasn't. He was a weak average human, not deeply flawed and he cause more damage to himself and his reputation than anyone. Lets be real here even with the scars you know I am right. DUDE


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## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> There's that lack of empathy. There have been several other instances of that. So I don't believe a word he says anymore. He keeps digging the grave for what was our friendship deeper, and then seems to be amazed that I've lost all compassion for him.


Lack of empathy, I totally get that!
My stbx admitted to me that he slept with the OW, got her pregnant, and she ended up miscarrying. He said to me- "at one point was I more concerned about her well being than yours"

Ouch, those words hurt like nothing I've ever felt before.

Among other things he's said and done to hurt me, it's no wonder I'm numb to his situation now. I'm not a horrible person who wishes ill on him...I just don't know how to feel.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

They are thinking more about their own well-being than ours (and than that of their own children, when applicable) when they decide to cheat. I found out my husband was texting his two APs - yes, two - one that is an EA that's been going on for years (he swears it was never physical, but I'm highly doubtful that's true) and the PA he left me to continue - from all over the world when away on his trips. With these endless minutea about his days as if they were both his wives. He never once texted me about anything, even after I called him out on this, even to check on his son when he'd been sick, when he was out of the country. He clearly put her/their welfare above ours all along.

Yet it would hurt tremendously to hear him put feelings like that into words. What an awful thing for your husband to say to you. What makes them to decide to suddenly be brutally honest with us about the thing that will hurt us the most, when they can't come clean when asked a simple question like "When are you planning to see each other again?" Not just lack of empathy. But also a pathological need to justify to themselves what they've done. It's as if they're "thinking" out loud and forget we're sitting right there. My STBX has said things so wildly insensitive to my face, I've had to say to him "I can't believe you just said that." Now when he does it, I just shake my head.

Dude, I agree that we're all flawed. I'm not a perfect person, and I wasn't a perfect wife - I know now I did things that made my husband unhappy. Even though he didn't bother to tell me about any of them until after he'd found another branch to swing to, I take responsibility for them. But he is much more flawed than I am. I think most of my shortcomings are fixable. I don't think his are, mainly because he really doesn't seem to think there is anything wrong with himself or what he's doing. I also don't think being empathetic is extraordinary, because most people I know are. Your 10 to 1 statistic kind of scares me. If that's true, it doesn't make my chances of someday meeting and being with someone who isn't just like my husband good at all.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Beanie,

You basically regurgitated what i said. You trump him, you are a better person and have greater interpersonal skills and self worth/respect. Pat yourself on the back!!! and yes, you will have to search a lil longer to find the ten percent crowd!!!


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## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> I'm not a perfect person, and I wasn't a perfect wife - I know now I did things that made my husband unhappy. Even though he didn't bother to tell me about any of them until after he'd found another branch to swing to, I take responsibility for them.


Same here! Looking back I can see my downfalls and where I was lacking. In fact, I knew there were problems and was open to talk about it and admit things needed to be worked on. The funny thing is he was always so laid back and carefree, I always envied that he didn't hold a grudge or let our problems get to him. I wanted to be more like him.

That is until he had an affair. Then all of a sudden he says- "I wasn't happy about this or that..... you didn't make me feel loved....you didn't support me....there was not enough affection...."

BS!! He seemed happy all these years. When I wasn't happy and felt like I went through dry spell of loving him, I never once thought to cheat or do anything to damage our marriage.

I chose him all along, happy or not. The difference is I wanted to be happy with him, even if it meant finding way....reinventing our marriage to keep from slipping down the drain.

Him on the other hand decided when he saw something shiny and new to go for it. He didn't choose me, he didn't choose to stay.

But somehow it's my fault that he had an affair. Yes I played a part in our marital problems but I did not make him cheat. Crazy how they will justify their actions by blaming us.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Did we marry the same guy? My family always suspected he had a whole other family someplace else. ;-)

Seriously, I have some questions for you, bbgirl. How old are your kids? Is your ex now living with the OW? Or is he still seeing her? Have your kids met the OW? I thought you mentioned you're now far away in another state. If that's the case, how often does he see the kids?

I'd love to move my son and myself far away - back to the state I'm from, ideally - and just start over where at least I'm near my extended family. And our dissolution places no restrictions on where each of us lives. But I wouldn't want STBX to not be a regular part of his son's life. And our son (13) is dug in here where we are. He really likes his school and friends, so it's out of the question until he leaves for college. STBX loves it here and so has no plans to move up to where the OW is right now or anywhere else. She's going to move down here, at least that was the plan last we talked about it. (Yay.) He never gives me a straight answer when I ask about her, so I don't bother anymore.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> Did we marry the same guy?


You two realize this mind does work very similar for most people right? They sound similar because their mind works the same and has the same defined defense mechanisms. Deflection, blame shifting, history re-write, etc. Everyone thinks individuals are so unique but their mind works the same for the most part and there are only like 16 different personalities. The problem is Deflection, blame shifting, history re-write, etc. causes serious mental/emotional issues later on as their mind can no longer tolerate trying to accept something it knows is not true/real, hence dementia awaits them.


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## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> You two realize this mind does work very similar for most people right? They sound similar because their mind works the same and has the same defined defense mechanisms.


Yes you are right. It's very interesting when I hear similar stories close to mine. It helps too because I don't feel so alone.
When I read up on characteristics of people who have affairs, I convinced myself that wasn't my husband. Looking back now I'm like--- ok now I see it.


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## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> Seriously, I have some questions for you, bbgirl. How old are your kids? Is your ex now living with the OW? Or is he still seeing her? Have your kids met the OW? I thought you mentioned you're now far away in another state. If that's the case, how often does he see the kids?


My kids are 12 and 9. 

Our situation was complicated. STBX is military. When I found out he was having the affair, we had a year left at our duty station before we were going to move anyway.

Kids just enrolled in school, I felt horrible to shake up their lives, and was hopeful we'd mend things. So we stayed. We lived in the same house but "separately". Hardest thing ever. It was torture.

Finally this summer once school was out, the kids and I moved back home (where I grew up) and are currently staying at my parents until I can land a job, save money, and figure things out.

As far as the OW goes, I don't even know who she is. She didn't live where we were stationed, that I'm sure of. I believe she was military too (he met her on his deployment).

I don't even know her name or what she looks like.

Not even sure if they are still talking. I do know that he is "talking to a friend" because weeks before I was leaving, his phone rang. He went to decline it but when he flipped the phone up I saw the contact photo he had set. It was female. I caught a quick glance. Brunette hair.

I asked him who that was, he said it's no big deal. At this point I knew we were done and it was no surprise if he was talking to a female. I asked if it was her, the OW. He said no. It was a friend that he was talking to. 

He said everyone has a contact photo that calls him. I then called his phone, asked to see it, and nope. No contact photo for me, just my name. Liar.

So that's why we moved away. We were bound to move anyway, I just didn't think it would be separately. He's getting stationed about 8 hours driving distance so that's a plus for the kids. 

He hasn't seen the kids since we left but he plans to see them on his way to his next assignment. Then have them visit on holidays or school breaks.

Our plan is to eventually move closer, to a bigger city and be near him for the kids. I obviously don't want to take their dad out of their lives, although he kind of did that himself.


I can understand why you wouldn't want to move. Honestly, I wouldn't mind staying where we were and living our own lives in the same city so the kids could see their dad. But we had to leave.

I worry about moving the kids again though. They're at that age where they'll make friends and want to grow up and have permanent home until they decide what they want to do at 18.

So we'll see what happens.

How is your son taking it? Does he know what's going on?


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

When I read up on characteristics of people who have affairs, I convinced myself that wasn't my husband. Looking back now I'm like--- ok now I see it.

Most important trait is insecurity, big red flag!!! Needs constant affirmation to alleviate


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Dude, in my STBX's case, maybe insecurity is the underlying agent - the root cause of his narcissism. He doesn't project insecurity - what he projects is an abnormal sense of entitlement. He believes himself to be an extraordinary person, and therefore entitled to more happiness than everyone else. I know this because he pretty much said it during the phase of trying to explain The Why to me. 

bbgirl, my son does know about the OW, what her name is, and when and how they met. He hasn't met her yet, even though she came down here for almost a week a week after his Dad moved out - to our rental property 10 minutes' drive away in the same town - because STBX didn't want him to meet her, yet. She knows he has a son, according to him, and wanted to meet him when she was here, but he told her "Not yet." This is very telling - clearly, he knows being with her is wrong, and/or he's not even sure how he feels about her. How could he be? He's known her in person for all of 11 days spread across three different, let's say, visits. Their "relationship" has otherwise entirely been via their phones.

We don't ever talk about her. His Dad told him this much about her that I know of. If they talk about her any more than that, my son doesn't share it with me. He's doing fairly well. His Dad spends a lot of time with him when he's not working. He's a pilot, so he's gone about 4 days out of every week. He generally sees him for a few hours each day he's home, but he doesn't stay with him very often. He's more comfortable in our home, and his camp and school are nearby, so I don't see that changing for awhile. Our son will get the maximum child support since I will have most of his custody. So I'm fine with this arrangement for now. As much as I vent about him here, our relationship is very civil and calm. He's been very helpful with him and even with our new puppy when he comes over - he takes him to the gym or to play tennis, and often takes him to dinner after that.

Even so, when he tells me he's having trouble with this or that physical ailment, my heart just doesn't bleed for him like it used to. I'm spent, like you, and now just feel numb towards him. I don't wish any ill on him, and I don't take any spiteful satisfaction in any suffering he's doing. I just don't feel anything about it.


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## McDean (Jun 13, 2015)

Dude007 said:


> When I read up on characteristics of people who have affairs, I convinced myself that wasn't my husband. Looking back now I'm like--- ok now I see it.
> 
> Most important trait is insecurity, big red flag!!! Needs constant affirmation to alleviate


The other big one I notice, and have read is potential leading indicator is when a normally forward thinking person starts focusing less and less on that and more on the now....medications, illnesses, etc. can all create that shift I keep reading...and of course insecurity (for real or imagined reasons), entitlement (almost assuredly so)......


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> Dude, in my STBX's case, maybe insecurity is the underlying agent - the root cause of his narcissism. He doesn't project insecurity - what he projects is an abnormal sense of entitlement. He believes himself to be an extraordinary person, and therefore entitled to more happiness than everyone else. I know this because he pretty much said it during the phase of trying to explain The Why to me.
> 
> bbgirl, my son does know about the OW, what her name is, and when and how they met. He hasn't met her yet, even though she came down here for almost a week a week after his Dad moved out - to our rental property 10 minutes' drive away in the same town - because STBX didn't want him to meet her, yet. She knows he has a son, according to him, and wanted to meet him when she was here, but he told her "Not yet." This is very telling - clearly, he knows being with her is wrong, and/or he's not even sure how he feels about her. How could he be? He's known her in person for all of 11 days spread across three different, let's say, visits. Their "relationship" has otherwise entirely been via their phones.
> 
> ...


And yet his actions will do nothing to bring him happiness, quite the contrary..Your symptoms look like typical grief to me and detachment which is a good thing!!


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Nomorebeans said:


> Dude, in my STBX's case, maybe insecurity is the underlying agent - the root cause of his narcissism. He doesn't project insecurity - what he projects is an abnormal sense of entitlement. He believes himself to be an extraordinary person, and therefore entitled to more happiness than everyone else. I know this because he pretty much said it during the phase of trying to explain The Why to me.
> 
> bbgirl, my son does know about the OW, what her name is, and when and how they met. He hasn't met her yet, even though she came down here for almost a week a week after his Dad moved out - to our rental property 10 minutes' drive away in the same town - because STBX didn't want him to meet her, yet. She knows he has a son, according to him, and wanted to meet him when she was here, but he told her "Not yet." This is very telling - clearly, he knows being with her is wrong, and/or he's not even sure how he feels about her. How could he be? He's known her in person for all of 11 days spread across three different, let's say, visits. Their "relationship" has otherwise entirely been via their phones.
> 
> ...


Narcissistic people are often driven by insecurities. They just hide it behind the veil of ego/entitlement. 

He feels he is entitled to more happiness than the average person is most likely because he is unhappy to begin with. The world owes him more because he has been denied. They chase the short term high yet never solve the riddle in themselves of true "happiness"


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## bbgirl (Jul 20, 2015)

honcho said:


> Narcissistic people are often driven by insecurities. They just hide it behind the veil of ego/entitlement.
> 
> He feels he is entitled to more happiness than the average person is most likely because he is unhappy to begin with. The world owes him more because he has been denied. They chase the short term high yet never solve the riddle in themselves of true "happiness"


Yes I see that in my stbx.
He has always come off charming, friendly, always there to help. Looks good on the outside. Smiling. Giving.

But I have seen his dark side. I have seen what greed and selfishness can do. It's mind blowing. I didn't feel safe, emotionally not physically. He was suddenly a different person.

All those times he was there for me, supported me, been the first one to help, he suddenly took it back. It now was a burden to him.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

bbgirl said:


> Yes I see that in my stbx.
> He has always come off charming, friendly, always there to help. Looks good on the outside. Smiling. Giving.
> 
> But I have seen his dark side. I have seen what greed and selfishness can do. It's mind blowing. I didn't feel safe, emotionally not physically. He was suddenly a different person.
> ...


People change...DUDE


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

INTEGRATION, ADJUSTMENT, and TRANSITION. How will you know when you are healing? You will remember him/her more realistically neither as an idealized saint or as a villain. You will be living in the present, not stuck in the past, and making plans for the future. I don’t think we totally achieve acceptance, I think we weave the loss into our lives by integrating it, making an adjustment to our living and making a transition. The pain and sorrow have lessened, and we feel free to reinvest in our lives again.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

I'd be a bit sad that my kids would be losing their other parent, but other than that, indifference. Perhaps a little relief at not having to coparent anymore, and that they are not exposed to poor role models any longer.

It might look like I've switched off any grief or compassion, but years ago, before my ex cheated, I would have, and did, move heaven and Earth to help. After I found out I was only a tool to be used, never cared about except for what I could provide, it took many years to get over the anger and disappointment. But my ex only looks out for #1 and doesn't care what damage is left behind to accomplish that.

My ex burned all the bridges I built between us, and I wouldn't feel a need to rebuild them in the event of illness. My ex can be looked after by the affair partner now. That's what happens when you steal someone's spouse - YOU become responsible for caring for them in sickness and in health. My ex is a stranger now, someone it turned out I never really knew in the first place, and thus someone else's problem.

Maybe it works differently for spouses who broke up amicably, but not in my case!


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Hopeful Cynic, I'm on the same page as you to a large extent. People don't change - they just get older.

My VSTBX (V is for Very, not Vendetta in this case - our dissolution will be final on 7/29) really has never been there for me emotionally. Not once in 27 years. I could write another one of my Biblical-length posts with lo the many examples, but I won't. He has always been all about Him and no one else. My entire family and all my friends saw it. I didn't, or I swept it under the rug if I did.

You're absolutely right - his Exit Affair, if he stays with her, or whomever is his next victim, gets to keep the "In sickness and in health" vow with him, now. I would have moved Heaven and Earth for him before all his nonsense started - even he realizes that now and has expressed regret that he didn't see that before and now has lost the best friend he ever had. But it's too late. He won't find another one like me, and unless he lives for another 27 years, anyone he does find won't have the history we did.

This idiot decided that rather than work on his own marriage he's spent over 20 years building, he'll just take up with someone who doesn't know him from Adam because she makes him feel good, and throw me and his marriage away like yesterday's garbage. He didn't realize that she was able to make him feel so good early on BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T KNOW HIM FROM ADAM. Now that they're getting to know each other, big surprise, she has had some issues with his monumentally selfish behavior. And because she calls him on it, she's "unstable."

I was fired from that "In sickness and in health" thing. I would feel sad for my son to be losing his Dad if he got seriously ill, and I would support my son in any way I could. But VSTBX is on his own.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Stable people don't have affairs. fyI


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

You and I and most everyone else here knows that, Dude. But Captain A$$hat sure didn't. When you're in Affair Land with the unicorns and leprechauns, you tend to miss that little factoid.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> You and I and most everyone else here knows that, Dude. But Captain A$$hat sure didn't. When you're in Affair Land with the unicorns and leprechauns, you tend to miss that little factoid.


Agreed, its just seemed so great at the time! NOT So whats your plans Beanie for the future other than raising your one kid, when do you start going through all the cabana boys? Can you bounce and have another serious relationship 18 months out?


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

I think 18 months is a little too soon, after ending a 27-year relationship, and getting over my PTSD. I don't think I could trust any man as far as I could throw him right now. It's going to take a good deal of time to get past that, and figure out why I married and stayed with a narcissist for so long. But all that's easy to say when there is absolutely no one on the horizon for me. Only time will tell.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> I think 18 months is a little too soon, after ending a 27-year relationship, and getting over my PTSD. I don't think I could trust any man as far as I could throw him right now. It's going to take a good deal of time to get past that, and figure out why I married and stayed with a narcissist for so long. But all that's easy to say when there is absolutely no one on the horizon for me. Only time will tell.


PTSD? I don't think you have PTSD


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