# I Need Help Please!



## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

I am new to the site and have trouble talking to people about this in my everyday real life so I thought I would write a short story here and see what kind of responses I would get from people who don't know me. Sorry to be so long, but I wanted to be thorough to get honest opinions and not try to just tell my side of the story to look like a saint also. 

Me and my wife have been together for 10 years, married for almost 4 years. We have a 2 year old and a 3 year old together which I adore with all my heart and they are my world. Let me start out by saying me and the wife had a very good relationship before our first child. I completely understand after having children things will change and was accepting to this from the beginning. Before I met my wife I was in the military which made me into sort of a clean freak and organized, so I do a lot around my household to help the everyday operations such as cleaning up, cooking, laundry, dishes, etc. along with helping with the kids as much as possible not limited to but including putting them to bed and getting up with them at night, picking them up from daycare every day etc. Pretty much anything to make my wife's life easier in general or the kids' I will do to help every day. I have had a good job for the last 12 years and pay a majority of the bills also. I do a lot around the house and for my family and do not get praised or appreciated for it in my opinion though in the last few years. 

Enough about the good things I do for my family, lets talk about the bad as most would probably think they outweigh the good. ZI wanted to leave this part out, but want to be completely honest. I have smoked marijuana since about 12 years old (20 years now on and off as I am 32) with a 4 year hiatus while in the military. After getting out of the military I started up again smoking due to stress and crap I couldn't get over from overseas and readjustment back to civilian life to help me cope. I had a 1 1/2 year relationship before meeting my wife in 2002. The woman who is my wife now we started a relationship about 10 years ago who does not smoke but drank a little when we met. I do not drink though as I don't feel in control as I do when I smoke. For the first 6 years of our relationship before kids I was a daily smoker and it helped me from getting upset or letting a lot of problems get to me from my bad childhood or from work, etc. (It helped me ignore things and sedate myself which I know now is not the right way to address them). We got married while she was pregnant with our first daughter in 2009 and I believe were still in love then. After the children were born, it was more of a weekend thing to smoke or when I got migraines or kidney stones occasionally it would go back to daily or until the pain was gone. I was sort of a hermit during this time and didn't want to go out much but always wanted to spend time with my lady and kids every extra minute I had in any day. Work has been stressful for me for the past several years along with having two children so close in age and adjusting to being a new father, and honestly I would let it all get to me and make me upset/be grumpy quite often due to not knowing how to fix it making me want to smoke to cope instead of attacking my problems properly which once again I know now is not the right way. This I believe made my wife resent me for the smoking (she doesn't and even though it was not a problem for our relationship before marriage as far as I know) and also resent me for the attitude for all the years along with other things unknown to me still but was too blind to see it all at the time. 

I wouldn't/have never been abusive in a verbal or physical way though to clarify that too, just be grumpy and kind of a bump on a log so to speak which I regret severely now. As we all know it is never one person in the relationship's fault though. After children my wife also developed a habit too in not communicating very well her feelings or wants in the relationship which was not a problem before the kids. I also believe that I started getting taken for granted for all of the things I do for the household and for her and the kids and never got the praise for it or appreciated in my opinion which has started to hurt me. All this that I'm describing went on during the last couple of years and my way of dealing with it was smoking and her way of dealing with it was ignoring it all and not talking to me about it at all and avoiding it. Neither way was/is good and I acknowledge it now that I am clear headed and wish I could have seen it sooner. 

Another thing that happened in August-October of last year, I found out she was texting an old childhood male friend of her family 300/400/and 450 times. I confronted her on it and she said that it was nothing and I didn't need to be worried about it at all but refused to show me the texts though which threw up a red flag to me. I realized at this point that something was terribly wrong in the relationship and with our communication but couldn't put my finger on it though to save my life as our communication was breaking. She quit texting him per my request (unless he has changed his number or something and I quit looking at the phone bill anyway due to it eating me alive wondering). Ever since then the sex has diminished almost which I also know is also unhealthy, and we have only had sex twice in the last almost 6 months along with an emotional disconnect I'm realizing started about then or shortly before the texting incident(s). Then about 2 months ago I found out from a mutual female friend of ours that my wife was texting and asking her about divorce or separation as she has gone through it before with her kids and my wife was asking her for guidance but didn't mention it to me. I took my wife out to dinner to talk after this to see if there was anything I could do for the relationship to help this emotional disconnect leading to the physical disconnect and what was wrong with our marriage. After asking what were her biggest problems with me and about the lack of intimacy and everything that was/is disconnected, she admitted to me that she was not sexually attracted to me anymore due to my smoking with the smell along with feeling like she was walking on eggshells and never knew what to expect from me being grumpy for so many years and what she would be coming home to. 

During dinner and talking I got the old I love you but I'm not in love with you... I realized because she told me that my wife did not like the man I was and that was part/some of the reason for this disconnect and I also realized that I did not like the guy I was either, so wanted to change for not only her to try and win back her heart, but for myself, the kids, work, and my overall life in general. I have not smoked for 2 months now and have greeted her with a smile and positive attitude every day for this entire time when we both get home and spend our evenings together. I have noticed a change in me for the better with these things and feel really good about it to be honest with everyone. I even got her to admit that she enjoyed the changes but she also said she didn't know if it would last. I reassured her that I do not like the guy I was and love the man I have been working on and steadily becoming and would not be reverting back at all to the old me she hated. I can understand how she would not believe me though as we have told each other we are going to change several times in the past for one or both of us to go back on our word. On another note, ever since the texting incident she has never said yes to the question of if she wants to be with me, it has been an I don't know with hesitation in her voice or avoided all together. 

So we went out to dinner again this week to talk because I wanted to see if my changes over the last 2 months had an effect at all on her feelings toward me/our marriage and see where her head was at in general. I found out she still feels the same even though I have changed her top two things about me, but have also noticed she has not been putting much into our relationship where I have been giving it everything I have to be a better husband and father. I really like the changes along with her too that I have made to myself as it has a noticeable change in my everyday life including increased happiness in my wife and kids and I want to make it work with my wife at any cost to me, but it seems as if she has given up on me but will not tell me that to my face. Our lease is up on our house at the end of May and I'm starting to wonder if she is not telling what is going on with the moving situation to keep me for the convenience just to let me go then and she knows it now and not being 100% honest with me, but part of me is still optimistic that this marriage can be saved. I have also thought back to what made us attracted to each other 10 years ago and trying to be more of that person she fell in love with along with my changes to try to attract her to me once again, but don't know if I am going about it the right way or if there is a right way to be honest. She just keeps telling me I don't know and she says she isn't giving much effort because she is tired of the same old promises even though I believe I came through on the last few. Once again sorry for being so long, just wanted to be as thorough as possible to be honest to everyone here and myself, and not paint either one of us (Me or the wife) to be saints or monsters because I realize we are both at fault here. Any help would be appreciated and thank you in advance for your help


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Welcome! I would love to read your post, but could you break it into a few paragraphs please?


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## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Welcome! I would love to read your post, but could you break it into a few paragraphs please?


Done, sorry about that. Just trying to get it all out


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks for the paragraphs! 

It sounds like you have been absent for the majority of your relationship because you spent so much time getting/being high. It sounds like you have an addiction. I know, I know, most people argue that you cant get addicted to weed, but that is bullsh!t. I am glad to read that you have stopped. You may do well to seek out a support group. I commend that you were open to listening to and acknowledging her issues with you. This has to be a mutual effort though. 

What exactly are you doing to work on things, besides quitting the smoking? Its sounds like you are coming out of a fog from your habit, and seeing things around you for the first time in a long time. Is SHE making any effort to repair the marriage? After all she DID start an EA with another man. I think you guys would do well to get to marriage counseling. Go out on dates, start spending some time alone together actually doing some activities you both enjoy to try and reconnect. 

There is a chance that she really is done here, and I would encourage you to keep to the path you are on. Keep working to improve yourself. Join a gym, rekindle an old hobby, do some projects around the house.

I wish you the best.


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## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Thanks for the paragraphs!
> 
> It sounds like you have been absent for the majority of your relationship because you spent so much time getting/being high. It sounds like you have an addiction. I know, I know, most people argue that you cant get addicted to weed, but that is bullsh!t. I am glad to read that you have stopped. You may do well to seek out a support group. I commend that you were open to listening to and acknowledging her issues with you. This has to be a mutual effort though.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the response. I have been out of the fog for awhile now and realizing what an a$$ I have been by not paying attention to and facing the problems in my life and rather just masking them with smoking and avoiding them. I feel she does the same thing I am doing with it all by not communicating though so we were both in the wrong IMO. I feel at one point I was addicted before kids, and then after the kids it was not an addiction to me, but similar to having a beer when you come home sometimes to take the edge of every now an then more so. Besides the quitting smoking I have been working on having a positive attitude and trying to be more attentive to her and the kids' needs/wants along with trying to go out to dinner or to do something that we enjoy together like you are suggesting in the last 2 weeks already, glad to know I'm on the right track if there is one. When we talked today I told her that it has to be a team effort and not just one of us caused this, and not just one of us could fix this. I told her that I was very sorry for my short comings in our relationship and marriage and regretted not figuring out things with myself and the problems with her sooner. I had to forgive her in order to make these changes for me that I have. She doesn't like taking about the EA or taking any responsibility for it, it seems like it is all my fault in her eyes and still seems like she doesn't actually think it was an EA. It just seems like she doesn't want to put much effort into it though. We have another talk scheduled without the kids after work tomorrow so we will see how it goes I guess. I will check in during work tomorrow for yours and other's responses though


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## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

SO the talk never happened due to the kids being sick and no one to watch the kids. But over the weekend I ended up talking to our mutual female friend that basically told me that she IS basically done and is distancing herself from me in order to not get hurt again and to make it easier for her to leave. She did say that my wife did fall in love with me once so it could happen again as she has been thorugh this, that I have made some great and positive changes, and that she loves her family so those are three things I have going for me right now. But my wife is still not communicating with me about things...She has been happier around me and smiling more for the last week or so though. I have kept up my end and all of my changes I have made within myself that I am happy with. 

But I also found some paperwork that she has filled out an application for the local housing authority on March 18th. Also with that was a copy of an inspection of our house that we currently live in I had no idea about that was dated 10 days later than the paperwork and money order copy for the application. I'm assuming the inspection paperwork is to make sure she is going to take care of the house and not trash it by looking at your current living space. She has no idea I know about this and housing application/inspection or know that I know she IS basically done with our marriage from our mutual friend and honestly it is all bugging me. 

My question is do I confront her about it all or leave it be? Our lease is up at the end of next month and she is obviously not being honest about her intentions or doubts not to move with me and seems like she is just holding on to me for convenience. I don't want to ruin my chances to reconcile our relationship by pushing too hard so to speak and I have heard not to do, but I also think that the least she could do is be honest with me so that I know what is going on and can make sure to have a different living arrangement if need be which it sounds like I do. We also spent the whole weekend together with the kids and had great times and everything seemed happy So I'm not sure what to make of all of this I found this morning. Lost and confused. I want to make it work but am not sure how to progress from here the right way. Any help would be greatly appreciated


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## ody360 (Feb 1, 2013)

Id say you need to let her know you know what might be going on. If you only have a month left, i think you should probably start addressing everything you know that is going on with your wife. Mainly letting her know that her friend has been telling you. But you unfortunately need to just get it in the open and then probably start making sure you have arrangements for yourself and for you kids if you 2 separate. Cause you are going to still need to see them and do your share once you separate of continuing being a father to your children.. Im sorry you are having to deal with this. 

But i really think its time to start communicating.. You know and your keeping the secrete inside. No more secretes kk.. Also it is unfair for her to be done and not least talk to you about it.. Your kinda getting hung out to dry. There should be least some common courtisy there. She may not think so cause she is probably kinda resentful for the past.. but its the right thing to do.. So just get this out in the open.. Communication cant start if you let stuff set un said..


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## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

ody360 said:


> Id say you need to let her know you know what might be going on. If you only have a month left, i think you should probably start addressing everything you know that is going on with your wife. Mainly letting her know that her friend has been telling you. But you unfortunately need to just get it in the open and then probably start making sure you have arrangements for yourself and for you kids if you 2 separate. Cause you are going to still need to see them and do your share once you separate of continuing being a father to your children.. Im sorry you are having to deal with this.
> 
> But i really think its time to start communicating.. You know and your keeping the secrete inside. No more secretes kk.. Also it is unfair for her to be done and not least talk to you about it.. Your kinda getting hung out to dry. There should be least some common courtisy there. She may not think so cause she is probably kinda resentful for the past.. but its the right thing to do.. So just get this out in the open.. Communication cant start if you let stuff set un said..


Thank you very much for the response. I was starting to not know what to think after 260+ people have viewed and only a couple had responded  . Thank you for the advice and for the kind words. I have talked to my mom about coming to stay with her until I can figure it all out that either we need to separate or call it done which I understand may take time. The children are a huge concern for me as I love my two kids more than anything in this world/they are my world as it should be and don't want them to suffer for our short comings any more than is required by parents having problems/splitting up. We at least need to communicate about that I think but on the same note do not want to push her away from me farther by pushing issues too hard or talking to much about something and furthering her resentment towards me. 

I agree we need to start communicating but don't want to push her farther away like I said above by talking about too much serious stuff and furthering her resentment or anger toward me and that is the straw the broke the camel's back so to speak. I agree that there should be some common courtesy but also understand she is hurt and having trouble communicating with me. I will see if we can plan sometime to go out and try to do something fun and possibly talk either today or tomorrow. Thank you again and I look forward to yours and any other responses


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Does this fit?
Walk-Away Wife Syndrome - Wife Ending Marriage


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## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Does this fit?
> Walk-Away Wife Syndrome - Wife Ending Marriage


This is pretty close I think, thank you for the link. There are a few things that are just slightly different but it generally explains what I think is going on. Should I forward that link to her do you think?


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## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

Thank you for your support anchorwatch. Sounds pretty close. I have a question though. Should I forward that to her to read? She keeps telling me I don't know about everything and seems to not understand why she feels this way and think it may help but may be wrong also. Thanks again


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Yes. I would send it to her. 

This may or may not be fixable, but at least if you have the knowledge about what is in play in your lives, it couldn't hurt. There has to be a lot of healing here, before the walls come down. 

You could start reading their book, "Divorce Busters" or the "Divorce Remedy". There is a lot on info on that site and in their forum too.

Divorce Busting® - How to Save Your Marriage, Solve Marriage Problems, and Stop Divorce

Another enlightening read is, "His Needs, Her Needs"


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## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

Thank you for your advice and helpful links anchorwatch :smthumbup: Greatly appreciated. I talked to her on my lunch today and sent her the link after I explained it and told her I would, now all she has to do is read it. She works tonight and should be very busy, but I asked her to read it please and to let me know what she thought about it. We will see what she says if anything at all and if she even gets to read it tonight. Thanks again, that article was almost a perfect explanation :smthumbup:

Does anyone have any ideas on how to get her to tell me what the problems in our relationship are besides the things she told me that I have changed? I know there is more. She doesn't communicate very well with me anymore and when we do talk about it calmly and everything I always get "I don't know" when asking about it. I would really like to know what is bothering her, but also don't want to push too hard or make her feel like I'm prying it out of her either though thus pushing her away from me farther. Thanks all!


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

KBR,

IMO. She has lost love and respect for you over a long period of time. This was due to neglect and damaging behaviors to the relationship. Of course neither of you knew what you were doing. During that time she fell out of love with you, she built walls around her to insulate herself from you so she wouldn't get hurt any further. She then was missing an emotional connect, so she was susceptible to getting needed affection from another man. The EA she had only complicated a bad relationship even more. 

Your not in a good place. Because of these walls, all your efforts to make things up to her are either viewed as pathetic, clingy or too little, too late. You are right, the more you try, the more she pulls away. Imagine having some one try to entice you into loving them, when you can't stand being in the same room with them. Many suggest that you give them space and time, while you work on being the best can be. Maybe then she may see you in a better light and drop the walls. The 180, from Divorce remedy, can be used for that. 
Here is a version.
180 List - No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group

Take a look at Dr Harley's love bank theory too. It's pretty easy to understand the dynamics of why she wont let you close. 
The Love Bank 

Plan A is for a spouse in this situation also. Here you would keep attempting to fill her emotional needs until she accepts them from you. 
What Are Plan A and Plan B?

Take a read, your in a bad spot, but others have recovered. At least you'll know you made your best attempt. 

BTW has MC been discussed? Have you thought about it for yourself?


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## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

Great reads on the links once again and thank you for the gained knowledge anchorwatch. I think you are pretty close to being dead on in the first paragraph in describing it and agree with you almost fully. 

In your second paragraph, I think you may be right also, but she gives me little signs of hope by sitting next to me and holding my hand and the other night she rubbed my back because I hurt it at work and she has not done that or even offered in quite some time. She also told me she has noticed the changes both in me and the relationships that seem to be getting stronger with my two little girls with these changes being implemented which also makes me feel good. I'm not a quitter though, so I refuse to just "give up" because she hasn't actually told me she wants a divorce yet only the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" thing. I will try the 180 thing but I'm not going to lie it will be hard for me only having about 6 weeks until our lease is up in the house we love in. We have had discussions about the walls you speak of in the past and have noticed in the last couple years when thinking back that whenever she hears something she doesn't want to hear or anything is her fault at all and we try to talk about it, she clams up/puts up the walls you speak of. She has never been able to explain this to me although I have asked several times. She asks what I would like her to say and I respond with "anything is better than nothing in my opinion and it hurts me". 

I have asked her about counseling on more than one occasion and she doesn't seem too opposed to it besides the money to pay for it with having to move soon. I don't mind paying for it and will cross this bridge if nothing changes for sure. Do you think I should pursue MC anyway though?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

KBR said:


> Do you think I should pursue MC anyway though?


You can get some trial and error direction from the experiences of us amateurs. But good professional marriage counselors have the tools and experience guide you IRL. They get to interact with you face to face and see things we do not. Not some words on a page.

Keep at it. It ain't over unless a judge bangs a gavel. You've got a lot of time to change things till then.


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## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

Thank you for the encouraging words and I think I will pursue MC (only with her approval too of course) after our next talk soon about finding the documents that she is looking for a house and assistance without talking to me and having an inspection on the house we live in for this too without me knowing and her intentions with us in general. Can you or anyone suggest how to look for and find good MC or one in Northern Nevada? I have seen many complain about not finding "the one" for them after reading about this and don't want to make this mistake and/or have the wrong one bury the hatchet in me so to speak. Any help would be appreciated


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## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

Ok so I have some updates. I have been focusing on my positive attitude and making her and the kids feel the love that they have been missing for the last couple of years, but that they deserved. I have put off talks because she found out her brother passed away and I have tryed to be as supportive as possible with everything going on with us and not talking about serious stuff as she has been a little down lately. 

We have had a few talks about things since I last posted though in baby steps in which I stayed cool, calm, and collective everytime. We have been taling more about everything in general which seems to be helping a little. In those talks I let her know that I knew about her talking to, applying for, and having an inspection on our house without telling me with the local housing authority and everything else that I knew was going on with her from our mutual friend. I also voiced that I felt betrayed by the housing authority things and rather than attacking her about it and blaming her, more so told her how that it made me feel to try a different angle of going about it and not getting upset about anything in general. 

She also finally admitted to me that she has put her walls up which I already knew and was confirmed here and by our mutual friend and that she was trying to take the easy way out by ignoring it all and not talking to me about it to make it easy for her, and also not knowing what my reaction would be hindered her from talking to about it I found out from her too. I reassured her that she would get the same reactions and talking as we have been having if she needed to talk and that is cool, calm, and collective with listening and understanding on my part. She seemed to like my reaction.

I got her to admit that she has lost the emotional connect/in love feeling and also that she doesn't see herself getting it back she says. I told her that we fell in love once and can do it again, but I can't do it alone, and can only do so much if she isn't willingto give it an honest effort. I told her I'm willing to do whatever I need to do to make it work, but I need effort on her part even in the slightest amount instead of nothing like she has been putting forth if she wanted it to work at all. I suggested MC and she said it was a money thing with us trying to move at the end of the month, but seemed open to it. 

I also asked her if the last 10 years and our two beautiful children were worth giving it an honest effort and she didn't tell me no, but didn't tell me yes. She told me she likes the changes I had made and that I was making it easier to come home to and be with, but reiterated that she wasn't sure if she could get the "in love" feelings back, but did love me and always would no matter what. I also told her it would help her to work on some things within herself and she could make herself happier as I have and it would bring her some happiness in her life to make it easier as it has for me in changing for the better and re-evaluating myself and our marriage. It worked wonders for me and have noticed that she is now the angry and unhappy one and I am the cool, calm, and collective one. It seems like we switched roles in a sense. It also makes me have hope because she still gets upset which tells me she still cares instead of blowing it all off and what not which would show me she doesn't care a bit.

I did ask for her to stop pursuing the housing authority unless she was honest with me about it altogether with her intentions and to consider signing another lease with me on a new place and moving together to give it one last shot on our marriage/family, and if after that lease she felt the same or it wasn't going to work for her/us, that I would give up and we would go our separate ways. I am waiting on my answer but told her that I will not rush her to this decision and know it is not one to made right then. I will be patient on this but have other options if needed and she still wants to leave. 

In the meantime I am still maintaining my new self that I like, and ordered many books to try and help me that I am waiting for in the mail:

Marriage Fitness 4 Steps To Building and Maintaining Phenomenal Love by Mort Fortel

The Magic Of Making Up ( Magic Of Making Up | How To Get Your Ex Back | Relationship Advice | Break Up Advice )

The Divorce Remedy: The Proven 7-Step Program for Saving Your Marriage by Michele Weiner Davis

Don't Sweat The Small Stuff for Men by Richard Carlson PhD

And have been looking into but have not bought yet:

Save My Marriage Today by Amy Waterman 


I'm going to read all of these books when they arrive, but am just curious how to progress forward from here as I don't want to push her to a decision or farther away, we can't afford MC until after we move, and don't want to be hung out to dry though either. Any help would be appreciated and thank you in advance :smthumbup:


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## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

Also just ordered Divorce Busting by Michele Weiner to go along with Divorce Remedy I already ordered.  . Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Hi KBR,

Lots of reading ahead there. I'm not familiar with all of them. Mort Fertel's are reviewed well here and on other marriage sites, though I haven't read them. If your looking, John Gottman's books are among the best too. Of course Divorce Buster's 180 is legendary here.

You have started to take control of yourself and your part of the relationship. That is the big step. Without that the relationship had no future. Yet it takes two to make a marriage. You can not control what she does, but you can make yourself desirable to her by being the person, husband and father she would want to be with. At times, you will get disappointed at the lack of results for your efforts. Do not let this destroy the gains you have made to yourself. No matter the outcome, you're in it for the long haul, to be the best man you can be. 

As for MC, do not abandon this tool for the lack of funds. It can be most effective. If you belong to a church or other congregation, many offer services.


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## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Hi KBR,
> 
> Lots of reading ahead there. I'm not familiar with all of them. Mort Fertel's are reviewed well here and on other marriage sites, though I haven't read them. If your looking, John Gottman's books are among the best too. Of course Divorce Buster's 180 is legendary here.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the encouraging words once again. I have already gotten disappointed in the results from my efforts more than once due to lack of effort on her part and being rejected, but kept it to myself and stayed cool on the outside knowing it was the best thing to do for myself and the relationship. You couldn't be more right, I'm in it for the long haul to be the best man, husband, and father to my kids no matter what happens. As I said before though, I hate the man I was and had become previously, so that makes it a little easier to not revert back to those ways for sure. 

I am not abandoning MC, and she was open to it to my suprise, but it is her who does not want to shell out the $ for it at the moment because we need to and have been saving for the move. I will not put a monetary price on our marriage ever. It is just still uncertain to if she is saving for HER move or OUR move at the end of the month. But I do not want to press the issue too hard by asking about it to push her away more. Am I going about this right, or do I need to try and get an answer or idea do you all think? Just curious

I do not belong to a church or other congregation, I let jesus go a long time ago after the miltary, and will not let him back into my life for personal reasons and will not be persuaded otherwise . My Sundays that are dedicated are only to NFL football now .


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Ha, I'm a big Sunday game fan too. Unfortunitly I've been waiting for my team to get back to the Super Bowl since 69'. Talk about patience.

As for her hiding her intentions about the move from you, I'd just ask her to be fair with you and that when she makes a decision would she let you know. Then drop it. 

Keep at it. Keep cool.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

Ouch, i'm so sorry your here, im not gonna lie to you, your in a very tough spot. This is one of the worst issues to overcome in a marriage.
KBR, as a fellow northern Nevadan I wish I had seen your post earlier. I want you to be first aware of what they call the "moving bar". Its when a spouse tells you whats been wrong with your marriage, which of course you work on immeidiatlely. The problem is, as soon as you address it, the bar moves and it becomes something else. This cycle repeats until the marriage is over, or you the marriage is repaired.

Understand everything your doing right now, is never gonna be enough. Right now, everything in the marriage your taking the blame for, and although you admit mistakes. Its a two way street.

Basically your problem is right now................the EA person. Your wife has been getting/gotten the attention she'd been seeking and has emotionally connected with them instead. She cant love you, cause she thinks she may be in love (its called fog love) with this other person. The reason its not over already is the guilt she's dealing with about the kids, and that will pass soon enough.

You have to get into MC now, to have chance!!!!!! Waiting or giving her space means the EA person is getting to work the situation over easier and without rules. I'm betting this other person is another man, roughly same age, and probably single.

Let me give you one tip, you want a MC that focuses on REPAIRING the marriage, fixing communication, addressing the issues, and using touch/feel tools for you and your wife. Meaning you learn how to not just talk, but how to reconnect. Theres not many in the Reno/sparks/carson city area. Not sure where your at up here, but after all the MC we went to, and some made the situation worse. I highly highly recommend:

http://therapists.psychologytoday.c...41.0968_8107&city=Reno&county=Washoe&state=NV

She's actually very reasonably priced, and GREAT at couples therapy. 

Ok back to the EA person, you CANNOT push that issue with her, you'll only make it worse. Right now, she thinks this person is her best friend, and he's giving her all the right advice. In FACT, you need to kinda keep it quiet, you need to see if you can find out who this person actually is, and you need to do it as quietly as you can. Does she talk to him on her cell phone, or a home computer, do you have access to the cell phone bill, can you check history on the home cpu. The reason im asking, is you might, as you've suspected, already be on the way out. Your wife doesn't know what she wants cause she's conflicted with your new attitude, and the EA's extra emotional attention. Hopefully it is just emotional at this point, and not become a physical affair.

Its very important that you DO NOT accuse her of cheating, you need to confirm whats going on, either way, cause it will totally change how you proceed once you do know.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

You have to be aware that a lot of the newer smartphones use apps to chat that leave no logs, so they can talk all they want and never leave a history. She may also be using a work computer that makes it impossible to find out whats going on.

You need to find out how long this has been going on, the longer it has, the worse it is typically. You need to continue to control your emotions, stay in charge, be positive. You continue to jump thru hoops for her, because that keeps you busy and she doesn't have to look in the mirror at herself right now. She's getting the best of all worlds. It feels terrible when you know your putting EVERYTHING into fixing the marriage and your spouse barely acknowledges there is a marriage. I recommend pulling back just a little bit, stay positive, continue what your doing, but at the same time don't throw everything out there. Leave a little mystery, it can only help with her, she will wonder whats going on and be slowly interested. Right now your emotions are on your sleeve and she knows everything going on with you, that's not mysterious, its predictable for her. You need to keep a little mystery going for her to re-engage with you a little. I hope that makes sense. Not only that, but with you giving her your playbook, she tells the EA person, and now they both get to talk about you and what your doing. So, he gets to adjust his game plan cause your wife is telling him whats going on. Your making it even easier for him.


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## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

@ anchorwatch - My team went to the Super bowl last year but lost... I asked her to be straight up with me about it and she agreed. I have dropped it since then and done exactly what you said before even reading your message . Thanks again


@ Thumper - I really appreciate the advice and the link to the MC, I will follow up on that for sure. The EA was broken off in December of last year. I do have access to our cell phone bill history, house phone history, and have left the history on in the internet browser to give me a clue of what is going on. A combination of these things is how I found out about the Housing Authority stuff, the EA, amongst other things, and her intentions. I also have the unlock code for her smartphone and can get in there if I want also, but don't usually after the EA has died off, but have from time to time just to make sure things are OK and verify contacts from the cell history when I do check that sometimes. 

She broke off the texting to the other guy in December and I have verified every number on there since when I check the history periodically. She may be using some kind of chat with no log like you say, but I doubt it. Her work computers only give her access to the business network and no internet access, so I'm pretty sure it's not there either. Her phone is the only way. I'm a pretty smart techie guy and saw all of the apps on her phone and have checked them every so often being nervous about everything and always questioning things since. I do not like doing this though so try to refrain unless I get a "feeling" something is not right. The EA guy was a childhood friend of her whole family and I truly believe they have broke the texting and talking off and may have been her just venting. I still know that htis was not OK, and I don't believe it was ever physical as he lives about 6-7 hours away and I have known everything about her wherabouts and such since I found out and have been nervous late last year. 

It does make sense, thank you for your input it is appreciated. You are right that I am putting everything into this and her efforts have been non existent until the last week and a half since our last serious talk I posted about in the update where I think it opened her eyes a bit. I have pulled back a little since though, stayed rediculously positive along with what I am/have been doing, and ordered several books to enlighten and educate myself as I posted a few days ago. This has made her interested and curious like you say and have noticed a litte bit of a change in her since. The only thing that is a question is if she wants to give it an honest effort and give it another try and move with me or go the housing route without me at the end of the month, and judging by her body language, smiling more, and the effort I have seen in the last week and a half toward us and a little towards me, I am optimistic she MAY come around if I keep doing what I'm doing and continue to better and educate me. I have also asked her to be straight up with me about it all and she has agreed. Once again, I don't think there is an EA anymore or at least not the same one though. I think she honestly felt the guilt from that and if she has a new one, she is very good at hiding it which I doubt she could be hiding it from me with my skills I have and have attained for spotting this sort of thing and my better listening now which makes me more aware of everything with us and the relationship. I love this woman and my family more than anything and won't give up until the gavel falls or I get fed up enough to serve her papers. I am curious to your perspective on this now


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

I think that's wonderful news, if you feel comfortable with the fidelity, its a large weight off your mind knowing.

Now you just have to deal with her walls/barriers, she probably isn't gonna drop them soon as you still have to show the changes your making are permanent not a temp fix just to get back together.

Also be aware of the good days and the bad days, which are days in which she allows those barriers to drop a little more each time before catching herself trusting you more. This can take a while, months to a year, so be patient, be positive, and keep working on yourself. ONE bad day by you can pull the whole thing down.

Its a very fine line you must now walk, I know you can do it!! Don't let the lack of response get to you, remember its gonna be baby steps from here on out. Also remember if you do get to a point where reconciliation is talked about, its just the beginning of the rest of your life, the changes your making must be reinforced everyday. Your learning to communicate, don't ever let those skills diminish again. Good luck, give us updates if you'd like, or come here to vent on the days things seem to be dragging you down. 

I'll keep you both on my mind, and throw a prayer that it comes to fruition.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Hang in there, sounds like you're doing really well. Lots of self work; I hope she comes around as well. 

Someone said pot is addictive, I disagree. It may become a crutch, but you quit and you didn't need methadone to do it, right? 

Jesus understands you


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

KBR said:


> @ anchorwatch - My team went to the Super bowl last year but lost...


In 2012? Really?

Alright...... I won't hold it against you.


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## KBR (Apr 13, 2013)

@ Thumper - I completely understand about the walls and she has admitted that it will take a lot to get her to take them down or lower them. I also understand that one day or one moment can ruin the progress I have made and will do my best to not make that happen as I want it to work at any cost. The lack of response and effort on her end is very frustrating, but I can't and will not let it get to me for sure. I appreciate the kind words and help. I will definitely keep updates here and also vent or ask questions if I need to. Thanks again

@ doubletrouble - Thank you for the kind words. I think you are right in that I used it as a crutch and to make my problems go away. You are right in that I did not need methadone or anything, just some willpower, and I have always been able to stop when needed to be honest, and now am just over it altogether and the damage it has done to my marriage and relationship with my wife. 

@ anchorwatch - Lol, yes I am a 49ers fan and am glad you won't hold it against me. I hope your Jets do well this year. Although it is nothing on your Super Bowl hiatus, my 49ers did have 10 years without a winning record that finally came to an end a few years ago . I read a little over 60 pages of the Mort Fortel book last night and am pretty impressed in how it kept me interested not being a book reading type. I haven't gotten a chance to respond to your PM yet but will and thanks again for everything too.


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