# Having a tough time



## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

My wife and I have been together for 15 years and married for 10. Our relationship has been very good and we have had few issues over the years. I trust her completely - as she does me. We have never had any problems with infidelity or the like.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Not sure if you are actually asking anything here or not. 

You are suffering from Retroactive Jealousy, RJ. Your feelings are real and valid, but they are YOUR feelings and should not be brought to bear on your wife. It sounds like she was honest with you and you chose to go forward with marrying her. It also sounds like that was a good choice based on your description of her being a good wife. 

I've dealt with RJ myself, although the back story of where it comes from differs from yours. I came to the realization that everything in my wife's past is what shaped her into the person I love today. Not to mention she can't change the past. It is good you are seeking therapy. This is something you need to work on and your wife should not be made to feel guilty.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

What were the conversations while dating? Unless you feel like she was elusive or lying deliberately, yeah, you already know, this is on you. And it can destroy your relationship because she didn’t lie, she didn’t deceive (assuming that’s the case). It’s actually you that may have lied to her, regarding things that would bother you, but YOU didn’t disclose. And maybe then it wasn’t a concern to you.

Do the right thing. Tell her it’s not her, it’s you, and get help. Find a therapist who can set you straight. Maybe consider EMDR.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

It’s called Retroactive Jealousy (RJ) and it is a real thing. 

Left untreated it can easily sour and destroy an otherwise perfectly functional relationship.

There are several people here that also struggle with it greatly.

It is usually not something that can be fixed by people telling you (or you telling yourself) that it was a long time ago in the past so just let it go. That doesn’t work.

This is likely something that you may need actual professional intervention and therapy. 

Don’t take it lightly or shrug it off as just a hang up. It can be an actual cancer growing on the foundation of a marriage and can be a relationship killer.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Agree with BigDaddy. You just need to find a way to work through these issues and not fault her. Insecurity is a close neighbor of fear, and whatever it is you fear, maybe start digging deeper as to where that is coming from. Your wife’s past is just that…the past. No one would fault anyone for not marrying someone if they discovered things that don’t fit their own values but it’s too late for that. Probably not telling you anything you don’t know, but I don’t think retroactive jealousy is all that uncommon. Hope you work through it and start feeling at peace.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Not sure if you are actually asking anything here or not.
> 
> You are suffering from Retroactive Jealousy, RJ. Your feelings are real and valid, but they are YOUR feelings and should not be brought to bear on your wife. It sounds like she was honest with you and you chose to go forward with marrying her. It also sounds like that was a good choice based on your description of her being a good wife.
> 
> I've dealt with RJ myself, although the back story of where it comes from differs from yours. I came to the realization that everything in my wife's past is what shaped her into the person I love today. Not to mention she can't change the past. It is good you are seeking therapy. This is something you need to work on and your wife should not be made to feel guilty.


Thank you for the reply. I have read about RJ and can see many of the elements of it in how I feel about this.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

What is EMDR?

Its unfortunate that you waited until now to spring this on her. She can’t go back in time. She also deserves someone who loves her for who she is. You can’t help who you are either, if this is how you feel, it’s not right to ask you to dismiss that. Too bad since your marriage sounds like it was ok before.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

The time bring this up would have been BEFORE the engagement. Now? This is squarely on you.

You chose to stay after the reveal.

You chose to ask her to marry you...after the reveal.

You chose to actually marry her...after the reveal.

Sorry, brother. You need to deal with this either on your own or with a therapist. Your wife did nothing wrong.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Agree with BigDaddy. You just need to find a way to work through these issues and not fault her. Insecurity is a close neighbor of fear, and whatever it is you fear, maybe start digging deeper as to where that is coming from. Your wife’s past is just that…the past. No one would fault anyone for not marrying someone if they discovered things that don’t fit their own values but it’s too late for that. Probably not telling you anything you don’t know, but I don’t think retroactive jealousy is all that uncommon. Hope you work through it and start feeling at peace.


Thank you for your post. I appreciate it.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

It’s natural to be repulsed by the idea that your wife had been so promiscuous before you met her. 20 guys that she admitted to in her early 20s? I agree that is a high number. I would bet her number is probably higher. Yea, I get it, it sucks to pay full price ( marriage) for what many got for free. Be prepared to be shamed for not being accepting of her past and that you’re being retroactively jealous. 

All of that said, you did marry her. With it being 15 years and im guessing kids are in the picture, I suggest that you maybe look at individual counseling to deal with your feelings. If that is not possible. I recommend that whenever you find yourself thinking about her past, you mindfully change your thoughts to think about all of her positive points. If you dwell on her past, you will be miserable , will be moody, and will end up making her dislike you. If you dwell on her positive attributes, you will give off a loving vibe to her that will attract her further to you. Nothing you can do about her past but you can work to have a beautiful future.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

TexasMom1216 said:


> What is EMDR?
> 
> Its unfortunate that you waited until now to spring this on her. She can’t go back in time. She also deserves someone who loves her for who she is. You can’t help who you are either, if this is how you feel, it’s not right to ask you to dismiss that. Too bad since your marriage sounds like it was ok before.


EMDR is a way of reprocessing memories and feelings to take the sting out of them. Very helpful with PTSD and anything that mimics (or actually is) trauma.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> What is EMDR?
> 
> Its unfortunate that you waited until now to spring this on her. She can’t go back in time. She also deserves someone who loves her for who she is. You can’t help who you are either, if this is how you feel, it’s not right to ask you to dismiss that. Too bad since your marriage sounds like it was ok before.


I feel really sorry and guilty about the timing of it.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> The time bring this up would have been BEFORE the engagement. Now? This is squarely on you.
> 
> You chose to stay after the reveal.
> 
> ...


I know this is my responsibility and completely own and accept it.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> Thank you for your post.
> 
> I agree that it probably comes from a place of insecurity and fear. Insecurity that she may have had a more satisfying partner than me and the fear that she will leave me. These are irrational, I know, but emotions aren’t simple or easy to control.
> 
> We have both said that our sex life is great and that we are each other’s best partner. Which does reassure me.


But if she’d had a more satisfying partner, she might have chosen him, not you. Think of it another way. Your wife already knows what else is out there, and she’s happy with YOU.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

jsmart said:


> It’s natural to be repulsed by the idea that your wife had been so promiscuous before you met her. 20 guys that she admitted to in her early 20s? I agree that is a high number. I would bet her number is probably higher. Yea, I get it, it sucks to pay full price ( marriage) for what many got for free. Be prepared to be shamed for not being accepting of her past and that you’re being retroactively jealous.
> 
> All of that said, you did marry her. With it being 15 years and im guessing kids are in the picture, I suggest that you maybe look at individual counseling to deal with your feelings. If that is not possible. I recommend that whenever you find yourself thinking about her past, you mindfully change your thoughts to think about all of her positive points. If you dwell on her past, you will be miserable , will be moody, and will end up making her dislike you. If you dwell on her positive attributes, you will give off a loving vibe to her that will attract her further to you. Nothing you can do about her past but you can work to have a beautiful future.


We don’t have kids, no.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> But if she’d had a more satisfying partner, she might have chosen him, not you. Think of it another way. Your wife already knows what else is out there, and she’s happy with YOU.


The rational part of my brain has totally come to the same conclusion. The irrational part brings the intrusive and unwanted negative thoughts in to play. That’s what I am struggling with.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> I feel really sorry and guilty about the timing of it. I’ve tried to explain to her that I buried the number in a box and never really thought about the realities of her past. It came to mind recently because we visited her hometown and met some of her friends, including former partners, from that time. It made me open the box and I wish I never did.


Just close it and move on. There are better and positive things to concern yourself. Enjoy your W.
Live.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> I feel really sorry and guilty about the timing of it. I’ve tried to explain to her that I buried the number in a box and never really thought about the realities of her past. It came to mind recently because we visited her hometown and met some of her friends, including former partners, from that time. It made me open the box and I wish I never did.


Ugh, it’s just awful. That poor woman.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> It’s called Retroactive Jealousy (RJ) and it is a real thing.
> 
> Left untreated it can easily sour and destroy an otherwise perfectly functional relationship.
> 
> ...


I completely agree about the ‘it’s the past let it go’ bit. It does not work.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Just close it and move on.


Easier said than done.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Ugh, it’s just awful. That poor woman.


Yep, I feel very sorry and guilty about the timing of this. Believe me.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> We don’t have kids, no.
> 
> I agree with much of what you’re saying and am working hard to focus on the positives and be forward looking. Intrusive thoughts are hard to ignore, however, and so I am going to see a therapist to help me work through this.


Why don’t you gave kids? Not that you should, just curious about the choice. Do you fear that there’s nothing that really holds her to you? Just thinking out loud here. You need to explore your fears, what it is that drives your concerns.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> Why don’t you gave kids? Not that you should, just curious about the choice. Do you fear that there’s nothing that really holds her to you? Just thinking out loud here. You need to explore your fears, what it is that drives your concerns.


We always thought we would want a family, but the time never came and we decided not to.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> What were the conversations while dating? Unless you feel like she was elusive or lying deliberately, yeah, you already know, this is on you. And it can destroy your relationship because she didn’t lie, she didn’t deceive (assuming that’s the case). It’s actually you that may have lied to her, regarding things that would bother you, but YOU didn’t disclose. And maybe then it wasn’t a concern to you.
> 
> Do the right thing. Tell her it’s not her, it’s you, and get help. Find a therapist who can set you straight. Maybe consider EMDR.


We discussed our pasts and I chose to continue the relationship because it was going so well.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> We always thought we would want a family, but the time never came and we decided not to.
> 
> Our marriage and love for each other holds us together. We have had a wonderful relationship up to this point, which makes me feel worse about what I am putting her through now.


You’ve got a fair amount to unpack. You might even be dealing with your own biological clock. How is your work? Has anything happened lately that’s shaken you up a bit and caused you to reassess your life?

Warn your wife that therapy is not a quick fix. That you nigh feel worse before you get better. And let your wife know that you’re ok with the therapist updating her, if appropriate. Part of the issue here is that you’ve kept secrets from your wife. That’s really going to hurt her.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

To all dating females reading this thread, 'It's none of your business', is the way to answer this inital question. 🙂


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> You’ve got a fair amount to unpack. You might even be dealing with your own biological clock. How is your work? Has anything happened lately that’s shaken you up a bit and caused you to reassess your life?
> 
> Warn your wife that therapy is not a quick fix. That you nigh feel worse before you get better. And let your wife know that you’re ok with the therapist updating her, if appropriate. Part of the issue here is that you’ve kept secrets from your wife. That’s really going to hurt her.


I have no issue with us not having kids, we very much both do not want to be parents. There are no problems there.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

minimalME said:


> To all dating females reading this thread, 'It's none of your business', is the way to answer this inital question. 🙂


That is an absolutely fair response, but some people don’t mind being honest about this. It’s all down to the individual.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> Yep, I feel very sorry and guilty about the timing of this. Believe me.


You’ve mentioned the timing several times now.

What is it about this time that is causing problems?


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> You’ve mentioned the timing several times now.
> 
> What is it about this time that is causing problems?


Because it only came up recently.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

@Thisisthetimeandplace So what would a "fix" look like for you. What is you want? You can't undo anything. What do you hope might change?

Are you just looking for ways to deal with it (counseling)? Or something else?


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> @Thisisthetimeandplace So what would a "fix" look like for you. What is you want? You can't undo anything. What do you hope might change?
> 
> Are you just looking for ways to deal with it (counseling)? Or something else?


Am hoping to be able to accept and move on from this.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

You thought you’d have a higher number and you didn’t. She told you to leave it and you’d didn’t . Now you’re judging her. This is your problem not hers, she doesn’t have a troubled past…. You just do t like it


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

If you can’t live with her past you need to leave. Had you not asked and been such an ass about knowing tits bee we fine. This is a YOU problem. She’s not at fault here


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Let me ask you this. What ic you slept with 30 people and she freaked out? How would you
Respond? You weren’t together and she wasn’t cheating. Grow up


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

People are being very gentle with you here so maybe this may seem a little harsh. 
WTF do you think your wife can do about her past. Other than a time machine I can’t really see what you think she can do.
Maybe you should just divorce this kind, loyal woman who loves you and let her find a man who’s insecurities doesn’t rule his life. 
You on the other hand can find a forty year old virgin who will only have sex with you when the planets align.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> That is an absolutely fair response, but some people don’t mind being honest about this. It’s all down to the individual.


Right, but a woman being honest isn't the problem. 😉


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> People are being very gentle with you here so maybe this may seem a little harsh.
> WTF do you think your wife can do about her past. Other than a time machine I can’t really see what you think she can do.
> Maybe you should just divorce this kind, loyal woman who loves you and let her find a man who’s insecurities doesn’t rule his life.
> You on the other hand can find a forty year old virgin who will only have sex with you when the planets align.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

You asked a question you thought would feed you ego. It didn’t .no kids= leave


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

minimalME said:


> To all dating females reading this thread, 'It's none of your business', is the way to answer this inital question. 🙂


It’s the correct answer for some, not all. There’s nothing wrong with people seeking out others who are compatible in their beliefs. If you want to answer “It’s none of your business” and yet still consider continuing a relationship, I’d suggest you may be looking at trouble down the road. The very fact that it’s asked at all is possibly more important than your answer.

If you don’t want to disclose your past, be upfront about it. Find someone of similar thinking. It shouldn’t be a big deal. Don’t hold it against someone that they feel differently than yourself on the subject. Just move on and find someone who truly doesn’t care.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> My wife and I have been together for 15 years and married for 10. Our relationship has been very good and we have had few issues over the years. I trust her completely - as she does me. We have never had any problems with infidelity or the like.
> 
> Not long after we met, when we were in our early twenties, I asked her how many sexual partners she‘d been with. She said I wouldn’t want to know, which worried me. I pushed her on this and she said she had been with just short of twenty men. I understand that to some people, this is a low number and nothing to worry about. But it is a high number for me, based on how many partners I’ve had and most of the people I know. We were getting on so well that I decided that I could deal with that and chose not to think about it much after that. I just thought of it as a number and didn’t consider the practicalities and detail.
> 
> ...


It's possible this is some insecurity that has risen in you for not just this one reason but other reasons as well. I really think you need to get in individual counseling and get to the bottom of what is, as you say, your problem. Insecurity from even childhood can be triggered as we get older and go through life stages. This may not be rooted in your wife's partner count but in something that goes back way further than that in your own life. Please since you care about her, make an appointment with a psychologist. You can do online therapy now via Zoom or other web cam means, very convenient and maybe not as daunting. Help yourself now so you don't erode a relationship you value.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

snowbum said:


> If you can’t live with her past you need to leave. Had you not asked and been such an ass about knowing tits bee we fine. This is a YOU problem. She’s not at fault here


He appears to be fully aware of that. I think he’s scared to death he’s going to lose his best friend and partner over something he’s unable to control. He’s not blaming her; he’s taking the blame fully upon himself.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> My wife and I have been together for 15 years and married for 10. Our relationship has been very good and we have had few issues over the years. I trust her completely - as she does me. We have never had any problems with infidelity or the like.
> 
> Not long after we met, when we were in our early twenties, I asked her how many sexual partners she‘d been with. She said I wouldn’t want to know, which worried me. I pushed her on this and she said she had been with just short of twenty men. I understand that to some people, this is a low number and nothing to worry about. But it is a high number for me, based on how many partners I’ve had and most of the people I know. We were getting on so well that I decided that I could deal with that and chose not to think about it much after that. I just thought of it as a number and didn’t consider the practicalities and detail.
> 
> ...


This was something that you should have discussed long before you got married. I have no idea why you didn't.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> I have got therapy starting this week. Am hoping to be able to accept and move on from this.


Glad to hear you got in therapy yourself for this. That's a good sign. Meanwhile, please relax and distract until therapy starts. It is a real psychologist, isn't it, not some quack or religious counselor? That would be a backwards move for an issue concerning your innate insecurities.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> It’s the correct answer for some, not all. There’s nothing wrong with people seeking out others who are compatible in their beliefs. If you want to answer “It’s none of your business” and yet still consider continuing a relationship, I’d suggest you may be looking at trouble down the road. The very fact that it’s asked at all is possibly more important than your answer.
> 
> If you don’t want to disclose your past, be upfront about it. Find someone of similar thinking. It shouldn’t be a big deal. Don’t hold it against someone that they feel differently than yourself on the subject. Just move on and find someone who truly doesn’t care.


Saying it's none of your business is being upfront. 

You feel entitled to information. 

If I choose not to answer you, then you're free to walk away. 

In my opinion, it is the correct response for everyone. 

People can ask for whatever they want, but that doesn't automatically obligate others.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> Yep, I feel very sorry and guilty about the timing of this. Believe me.


Well at least be kind enough to end it quickly. Don’t drag it out make her feel worse. This is your problem and you are hurting her for your ego. Let her go so she can find someone who loves her for who she is.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

minimalME said:


> Saying it's none of your business is being upfront.
> 
> You feel entitled to information.
> 
> ...


If “it’s none of your business” is an unacceptable answer, then you’re not compatible and there’s no answer she can give other than “I’ve never had sex before.”


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> He appears to be fully aware of that. I think he’s scared to death he’s going to lose his best friend and partner over something he’s unable to control. He’s not blaming her; he’s taking the blame fully upon himself.


Exactly. You get it.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Glad to hear you got in therapy yourself for this. That's a good sign. Meanwhile, please relax and distract until therapy starts. It is a real psychologist, isn't it, not some quack or religious counselor? That would be a backwards move for an issue concerning your innate insecurities.


I will be seeing a professional, yes. Someone very much qualified to help me. I hope.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> This was something that you should have discussed long before you got married. I have no idea why you didn't.


They did discuss it and he accepted it.

This is something that has reared its head recently. 

He recognizes it’s an issue within him.


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## Recovering Lawyer (6 mo ago)

My wife had a little fling with a friend at college after we were engaged (we went to different colleges after being high school sweethearts but remained a couple throughout). Her relationship with him did not turn sexual, just dates and kisses and the like. She confessed and we dealt with it and got married. But 10 years later she saw him in a public place and grabbed me by the arm and said "Let's get out of here!" That little nothing still hurts her to this day 30 years later. Your wife carries around a big burden. Don't make it worse. 

My wife and I have a very dear friend, middle aged lady, who had about 100 partners back in the free love 70s. For a time she was living in a communal relationship with several people sharing beds. It was a thing 45, 50 years ago. She later became a great wife and mother and is now a very conservative, doting grandmother. She is the last person you'd ever expect to have a past. That's the point. People change. Your wife has changed. That young, messed up girl who slept with randos is dead and gone. But now you have a great lady. Please don't burden this blessing of a lady with painful things that she's put behind her. You need to look beyond the tip of your own nose and your own feelings and think about how painful this is for her. Every time you think about how painful it is for you, realize it's more painful for her. 

Every time you get a painful pang, replace it with gratefulness for the strength of a woman who can overcome a very rough start to adulthood and become a giving, loving wife who's true to you. Will yourself to replace pain each time it rises up with feelings of gratefulness. Don't expect it to work all at once. It won't, it takes time. But it does work if you make up your mind to do it no matter what, hell or high water. Not many people can pull back from the cliff like your wife did. It takes a special strength. It's rare. You have a very special woman, you may not deserve such a gift. Be thankful.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> They did discuss it and he accepted it.
> 
> This is something that has reared its head recently.
> 
> He recognizes it’s an issue within him.


Exactly. I have taken full responsibility and accept that it is me who needs to resolve their issue.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

minimalME said:


> Saying it's none of your business is being upfront.
> 
> You feel entitled to information.
> 
> ...


I only had one ask. I just didn't go out with him again, can't remember his name or face. 

If I know a guy is more or less like me about it, I have in the past not talked numbers but incidents, yes. Just for fun, comparing notes and things that happen. My old flame, when I last went out with him 20 years ago, and I had lots of fun talking about all sorts of things. One thing we talked about is how when we first met decades before, we both wished we were bi because that seemed to be where a lot of the fun was, but that sadly, neither of us really was when it came down to it. We were both adventurous, but it was the '70s, and life was a sexual playground and high adventure for those interested.

P.S. I don't know anyone from that era who suffers ANY remorse about it. I mean, we all have regrets we got mixed up with this person or that, but not just in general.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

Recovering Lawyer said:


> My wife had a little fling with a friend at college after we were engaged (we went to different colleges after being high school sweethearts but remained a couple throughout). Her relationship with him did not turn sexual, just dates and kisses and the like. She confessed and we dealt with it and got married. But 10 years later she saw him in a public place and grabbed me by the arm and said "Let's get out of here!" That little nothing still hurts her to this day 30 years later. Your wife carries around a big burden. Don't make it worse.
> 
> My wife and I have a very dear friend, middle aged lady, who had about 100 partners back in the free love 70s. For a time she was living in a communal relationship with several people sharing beds. It was a thing 45, 50 years ago. She later became a great wife and mother and is now a very conservative, doting grandmother. She is the last person you'd ever expect to have a past. That's the point. People change. Your wife has changed. That young, messed up girl who slept with randos is dead and gone. But now you have a great lady. Please don't burden this blessing of a lady with painful things that she's put behind her. You need to look beyond the tip of your own nose and your own feelings and think about how painful this is for her. Every time you think about how painful it is for you, realize it's more painful for her.
> 
> Every time you get a painful pang, replace it with gratefulness for the strength of a woman who can overcome a very rough start to adulthood and become a giving, loving wife who's true to you. Will yourself to replace pain each time it rises up with feelings of gratefulness. Don't expect it to work all at once. It won't, it takes time. But it does work if you make up your mind to do it no matter what, hell or high water. Not many people can pull back from the cliff like your wife did. It takes a special strength. It's rare. You have a very special woman, you may not deserve such a gift. Be thankful.


Thank you for your reply and for sharing your own knowledge and experiences.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> That we are a decade into marriage, have been together 15 years and I’ve not mentioned it until now. But that’s because it only came up recently.


What happened recently that has changed?


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> What happened recently that has changed?


We visited her hometown and went to an event where a lot of people from those days in her life were present.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> Easier said than done.


Of course. Like all things worth doing. You'll get back to normal.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Of course. Like all things worth doing. You'll get back to normal.


Thank you. That’s the plan! Just need to work through this in therapy. Just want to get started.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> We visited her hometown and went to an event where a lot of people from those days in her life were present, including a couple of the men she had slept with. We hadn’t seen them in a long time and it brought up things in my mind and it spiralled from there.


Ok I get it.

That is something that your therapist will probably delve into a bit and address in more detail. 

Realize that none of us here are shrinks or therapists or counselors etc. we are all just average citizens who have also had relationship issues and are as challenged as the next. 

But let me ask you a 2-part question as I have a bit of a pet theory of my own brewing- 

Part I - has your marital sex life slowed down into a somewhat lackluster routine? 

I’m not talking about a dead bedroom or actual bad or awkward sex, but just the regular simmering down of the former passion you used to have in the earlier days? Maybe she rebuffs some of your advances now because she’s tired or not in the mood or she has too much on her plate to mess with sex now and then? 

and Part II - is your mind being invaded by thoughts of her having unbridled passion with these hot hunks from her young and wild days? And along with that, thinking that she is secretly pining for those old days of wild and free sex and passion? 

Do you feel somewhat emasculated by that combination?

(Ok I guess that was technically 3 questions)


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Ok I get it.
> 
> That is something that your therapist will probably delve into a bit and address in more detail.
> 
> ...


Our sex life is better than ever.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> Our sex life is better than ever. We make love regularly and things there are in great shape there. We’ve actually had more sex than usual in the last month or so.
> 
> No, I don’t worry about her pining for those days. They aren’t days she looks back on fondly and she wouldn’t do things the same with hindsight. She didn’t actually have that much sex before we met, relatively speaking. I’m sure she enjoyed it with many of them, but we have a great sex life and always have and so I don’t feel that she had better partners who satisfied her more than me. We both say that our best partner is each other and I absolutely believe her when she says that. I mean it too when I tell her.


I didn’t ask about realities of what she says her experience actual was or realities of if you two are happy together or that you are the better man etc.

I asked about intrusive thoughts and feelings (which often have nothing to do with reality)

But that’s ok, I’ll move on to my next point in another post.


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## Thisisthetimeandplace (6 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> I didn’t ask about realities of what she says her experience actual was or realities of if you two are happy together or that you are the better man etc.
> 
> I asked about intrusive thoughts and feelings (which often have nothing to do with reality)
> 
> But that’s ok, I’ll move on to my next point in another post.


The intrusive thoughts are about the situations where she meets people and goes home with them for sex, yes.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> What upsets me is simply that she was lonely, had low self esteem and thought that having sex with these men would get her a boyfriend and validation. It wasn’t about sex and physical attraction as such, she was struggling with self worth and it makes me sad.


I think this above is significant however.

I think when you think about her past, your respect and admiration for her takes a hit and knocks your image of her down a few pegs. 

It’s not your fault per se as it’s nothing that you can really control. It’s not like you are choosing to to think lesser of her…. It just happens.

If you were back in her old stomping grounds and saw some of these guys and you picture her grasping on to them out of loneliness and self esteem issues, assuming these guys weren’t remarkably handsome Hollywood producers or titans of industry or Tom Brady etc it could naturally take a bit out of your esteem for her. 

There can be a number of factors at play here. 

If these guys are handsome and charming and successful, it can trigger an insecurity response or even an emasculation response in that they got for free, then tossed away what you had to marry her to get, in other words they got the milk for free while you had to buy the cow.

But if you saw these guys and it was Russ that works down at the sawmill and he is balding, has 5 brown teeth left and his gut hangs over to his thighs, then your not insecure but it knocks your respect and esteem of her down a number of pegs. 

Do you have the right to judge her and point fingers at her and give her a bad time about it? No of course not, you’d be an ass to do that. 

And I know you’re trying your best not to do that.

But we can’t control what we think or how we feel, we can only control our words and our actions.

Whether your sense of respect and esteem for her is being assaulted or whether you are having an insecurity attack; The answer to either is likely therapy and learning to file those feelings away into the “Irrelevant Today” box.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> The intrusive thoughts are about the situations where she meets people and goes home with them for sex, yes.


We were posting at the same time but this further supports what I was saying above.

This is a respect and esteem for her issue. It’s all knocked her down a few rungs on your respect ladder. 

For a marriage to be happy, harmonious and healthy, a man must cherish his mate and see her as his queen. 

The catch is we are all humans and none of us are perfect. 

She was not the perfect paragon of virtue and you do not have perfect control of your feelings of respect and esteem for someone that was a bit of a party girl. Your both fallible humans. But at least that gives you some common ground.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Recovering Lawyer said:


> My wife had a little fling with a friend at college after we were engaged (we went to different colleges after being high school sweethearts but remained a couple throughout). Her relationship with him did not turn sexual, just dates and kisses and the like. She confessed and we dealt with it and got married. But 10 years later she saw him in a public place and grabbed me by the arm and said "Let's get out of here!" That little nothing still hurts her to this day 30 years later. Your wife carries around a big burden. Don't make it worse.
> 
> My wife and I have a very dear friend, middle aged lady, who had about 100 partners back in the free love 70s. For a time she was living in a communal relationship with several people sharing beds. It was a thing 45, 50 years ago. She later became a great wife and mother and is now a very conservative, doting grandmother. She is the last person you'd ever expect to have a past. That's the point. People change. Your wife has changed. That young, messed up girl who slept with randos is dead and gone. But now you have a great lady. Please don't burden this blessing of a lady with painful things that she's put behind her. You need to look beyond the tip of your own nose and your own feelings and think about how painful this is for her. Every time you think about how painful it is for you, realize it's more painful for her.
> 
> Every time you get a painful pang, replace it with gratefulness for the strength of a woman who can overcome a very rough start to adulthood and become a giving, loving wife who's true to you. Will yourself to replace pain each time it rises up with feelings of gratefulness. Don't expect it to work all at once. It won't, it takes time. But it does work if you make up your mind to do it no matter what, hell or high water. Not many people can pull back from the cliff like your wife did. It takes a special strength. It's rare. You have a very special woman, you may not deserve such a gift. Be thankful.


Your wife cheated that isn't retroactive jealousy it's common sense. Of course you are going to hurt from that, your wife betrayed you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Time for some tough love, I basically say this to every guy who comes on here suffering from this. Retroactive jealousy is really about some guys inability to compete. Period. They are afraid they don't measure up but instead of fighting and competing they become depressed and cower in their own heads.

I know that sounds rough, but these fears you have are like a bully that is torturing your mind. There are two ways to combat a bully, you either cower and try to get away or you punch them in the mouth and at least make them hurt when you do. 

The way to get over this is to metaphorically punch these fears in the mouth. 

How do you do that? Go be your wife's best, so good that you know no man can compete even in your own head. Go have passionate sex with her, romance her off her feet, take care of her like she is precious. Tell her you want her, make her feel wanted. I suggest you build up slowly so it's not overwhelming to her, but do it!

Now that different then being a super nice accommodating husband, that is not what this is about. But often guys who are retroactively jealousy are nice over accomidating guys too. All of that has to do with insecurity. You have to empower yourself. Take her, claim her, she is your wife. That also doesn't mean bossing her around, it means figuring out what turns her on and then doing that until her head explodes. Being her source for all things male and what women want from that. Learn what that is for her and then be that.

You can do that, you are in the perfect position, you are her husband. That is your point.

Sooner or later you are going to have to compete, we are men that is what we do. Our whole lives are a competition. You are competing with everyone who was before you and everyone who will be after you. Every dude your wife had sex with, every dude she might have sex with when you die. That's life as a man. You may not like it, but the sooner you understand it, are not afraid of it but embrace it and decide to make your mark, the sooner you will feel better. 

The way to get over this is to become the man for your wife that you brain has been telling you you should be afraid of.


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## gguillermo (7 mo ago)

Andy1001 said:


> People are being very gentle with you here so maybe this may seem a little harsh.
> WTF do you think your wife can do about her past. Other than a time machine I can’t really see what you think she can do.
> Maybe you should just divorce this kind, loyal woman who loves you and let her find a man who’s insecurities doesn’t rule his life.
> You on the other hand can find a forty year old virgin who will only have sex with you when the planets align.


What she can do is not have her husband meet everyone she slept with.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

gguillermo said:


> What she can do is not have her husband meet everyone she slept with.


But from her perspective, everything might have seemed fine… until it wasn’t. OP seems to be making the case this is a sudden thing. And the awesome sex going on could be hysterical bonding, and that’s not a long term thing.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

The fact you are here there is something that is eating away at you , even though you say you are connecting better and sex is good or better , you seem to want to put what happened aside and not saying out how you have been hurt, 
I hope with your wife you can bring out your thoughts , and not let them eat away at you for years , 

you say your going to get help , 
this is only as good as you are open to them 
because even though they are experts or some are experts others are chancres, but they don't come with a crystal ball 

I would subject even if you don't post it write out what it is that is what is the root of this problem , 
Was it cheating or was it a type of open relationship , because for me you have not said straight out what is it that is eating you up , but more the posters have asked you and suspected this or that was why you are posting 


and why do you think she felt the need of going out and having sex with a man or men , and has that stopped and if so why , does she feel happy with you and for-filled

No one is here to judge you and you have the advantage of anomalous .
No one here has the right to say you must live in a way or in they way , every relationship is different , 
It is in finding what is best for both of you that in important


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Time for some tough love, I basically say this to every guy who comes on here suffering from this. Retroactive jealousy is really about some guys inability to compete. Period. They are afraid they don't measure up but instead of fighting and competing they become depressed and cower in their own heads.
> 
> I know that sounds rough, but these fears you have are like a bully that is torturing your mind. There are two ways to combat a bully, you either cower and try to get away or you punch them in the mouth and at least make them hurt when you do.
> 
> ...


RJ can come in different flavors. A lot of the guys that come here with RJ is out of insecurity and feeling somewhat intimidated by the previous lovers. 

For some reason the OP has deleted some pertinent info on a number of his posts and has not been back. I am not sure why. 

Anyway, within that deleted content, I did not get the impression that he felt he did not measure up or was intimidated or felt that these guys were more masculine or had more sexual prowess than him at all. 

The impression I was getting was that he felt she was dysfunctional and behaving in a maladaptive manner and had self esteem issues and was lonely and seeking solace and basically screwing a bunch of guys in hopes of finding a boyfriend. 

For some guys RJ is directed inward and attacks their own sense of self and their own self esteem and masculinity and they become intimidated and worry if they measure up and are concerned if their partners are still fantasizing and yearning for the Chads that they were with in their younger days. 

For some other guys, their consternation is turned outward towards their wives themselves and they feel a sense of disdain and loss of respect and esteem towards their wives for their previous promiscuous behavior. 

On a conscious, logical level, they recognise that their wife has lived a perfectly respectable and appropriate life with them and that they have been a perfectly good wife and mother...... but they can't shake the deep inner sense that she behaved in a dysfunctional and distasteful manner in her younger days and he looses respect and esteem for her even though he knows it's not logical and he doesn't want to. 

I believe the OP is in this latter catagory. 

The RJ is not threatening his sense of self and making him feel lesser-than in himself. 

It is making him feel lesser-than in her.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> The intrusive thoughts are about the situations where she meets people and goes home with them for sex, yes.


I’m really sorry you’ve edited your posts before I had a chance to read them. I’m only assuming what the problem you’re struggling with is.

RJ is real, and it can be debilitating. Unfortunately, most people on TAM don’t understand it and will, even with good intentions, give terrible advice. Many of them roll their eyes when someone brings it up. The threads die out pretty quickly, which makes it surprising that this one has continued as long as it has.

I might have been able to offer some suggestions, but instead I’ll wish you the best of luck. There is relief from RJ, but it never completely goes away.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Thisisthetimeandplace said:


> The intrusive thoughts are about the situations where she meets people and goes home with them for sex, yes.


I think you need to also realize that what's going on in your mind would be there right now even if she had only been with 5 other guys...or 3...the insecurity you have is within YOU, and it doesn't care about the number of partners she's had. It's possible that her higher number of partners drew your attention originally, but the obsessing part is a malfunctioning coping mechanism that's already in your mind. It's just focused on her sexual past now.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> For some other guys, their consternation is turned outward towards their wives themselves and they feel a sense of disdain and loss of respect and esteem towards their wives for their previous promiscuous behavior.


So then this is not RJ it's just him being condescending towards her, which would explain why he isn't getting better. First he has to identify what this really is. A lot of problems don't get resolved because people have issues putting their finger on what it is they are suffering from. Callng it RJ seems better then feeling like you married a lose women which is what this would be if what you are saying is correct. Seems pretty harsh when you put it in that light right?

Then OP judges his wife's worth and value by her sex count. This is a good example why women who were very promiscuous should tell the people they date pretty early on and not hide it so it doesn't get to this point. It's sad when some of these women are ashamed and hide it only for it to come out later, and then find they are married to men who don't have it in them to give them the grace and comfort they don't give themselves. But then I guess if you do marry and hide it maybe it's better to take to their grave. Much better strategy to be as authentic as possible and find someone who loves you for you.

I mean people are entitled to their opinions. Though I don't see it this way, I suspect some of these husbands feel the same way a wife might if she found out her husband used to frequent prostitutes before they knew her and were single. Not exactly the same but the feelings kind of are. The whole thing is sad because it's just being judgemental.

If this is the case then OP needs to figure out why sexcount = worth to him.

Does his wife's value really come down to the amount of penises she has had in her?

Yep, read that again, that's what were talking about here. Seems kind of silly to me.

Now one thing would be if she lied about sex count and he thought rareness made what they had unique, a lot of effort goes into finding that. Then what we are really talking abut is not being sexually compatible. But as far as I know that has never been brought up.

Then there is this quote



> What upsets me is simply that she was lonely, had low self esteem and thought that having sex with these men would get her a boyfriend and validation. It wasn’t about sex and physical attraction as such, she was struggling with self worth and it makes me sad.


Since we were talking about RJ I pretty much wrote that off as ******** that an insecure guy says when the truth is he is just afraid of competing with those guys she had sex with in the past Honestly part of me thinks this is the case and I will stick with the first post. I mean if this was the case then just tell her how YOU see her. Again I think my first post is more dead on.

That being said, if you are right then my advice would be this - _ (I am going to be even more blunt here. Hard to believe that is even possible but I never cease to amaze myself. This one is so harsh its hard to write because some of the thinking here is so abhorrent to me but I as is my way I have to be blunt and honest about how I see it even though it's hard to talk about this stuff. I believe it must be confronted, so for those sensitive souls stop reading or please forgive my harsh words here.)_

OP what would you do is some guy called your wife the "W" word that we know all women hate? I know I would ****ing try to pull anyone's trachea out of his throat if they said that about my wife or my sisters, or any women I know and love. However, if oldshirt is right, then this is kind of what your own self conscience is doing.

OP since you are traditional with the idea that wives are move valuable if they are innocent thinking. I am going to appeal to you in a very traditional way. You are this women's husband. Maybe she has not found it in herself to give herself the grace to let this part of her history go. But either way your job as her husband is to protect her, even from herself or yourself. You can't do that if you agree with the assessment. If you agree with the assessment then you are hurting her. I know what I would do to someone actively hurting my wife.

So lets speak plainly here (I know, I know). Is your wife's value about how many ****s she has had in her? (Again being blunt but my point is lets get down to what this kind of thinking really is). AGAIN, DO YOU VALUE YOUR WIFE BY THE AMOUNT OF ****S THAT HAVE BEEN IN HER? I don't know about you, but would never let my wife (who I have invested my entire life in and who has proven to me I made a good choice) I would let no one judge her by her worst insecurities, if I knew someone was doing that I would go stomp them. I would stomp them for her first, but also for myself. I made an excellent choice in who I married. I think the best choice I ever made in my life. As her husband and her protector DO THAT, even if the people doing is your self conscience.

_This is a rare time when I think maybe I my post went too far, but hell never stopped me in the past. I hate HATE HATE the thinking that I am highlighting, and I hate pointing it out because I don't know how to easily tell someone they are doing it. It's normal for folks to be defensive about it. I am going to press the "post reply" button though. I believe in grace and mercy when it's asked for. I believe in judging people on how they treat other people not how they treated themselves. As described this women has done nothing wrong, she may regret it but then the only one she hurt was herself. Nothing that lots and lots of young women AND MEN do. She though her value was in what other people though of her and sex for young women particularly is an easy way to get a false sense of being valued._

EMPATHY OP. YOUR THIS WOMEN'S HUSBAND. EMPATHY....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sokillme said:


> So then this is not RJ it's just him being condescending towards her, which would explain why he isn't getting better. First he has to identify what this really is. A lot of problems don't get resolved because people have issues putting their finger on what it is they are suffering from. Callng it RJ seems better then feeling like you married a lose women which is what this would be if what you are saying is correct. Seems pretty harsh when you put it in that light right?
> 
> Then OP judges his wife's worth and value by her sex count. This is a good example why women who were very promiscuous should tell the people they date pretty early on and not hide it so it doesn't get to this point. It's sad when some of these women are ashamed and hide it only for it to come out later, and then find they are married to men who don't have it in them to give them the grace and comfort they don't give themselves. But then I guess if you do marry and hide it maybe it's better to take to their grave. Much better strategy to be as authentic as possible and find someone who loves you for you.
> 
> ...


No I think it's legit RJ. I just think RJ comes in different combinations and permutations and is the sum of a variety of different parts that can vary from one person to the next. One person's RJ is not necessarily the same as another person's RJ. 

Is there some judgementalism involved in it? Of course. we all make 1000 judgements a day whether we want to or not. 

IMHO RJ is foul tasting witch's brew of insecurity, judgementalism, self-righteousness, fear, self-esteem issues, prior relationship baggage, FOO issues and a whole host of other bitter ingredients. Each person's particular case is made up different quantities of those ingredients but the all taste bad and they all can poison a current relationship. 

Up until he started deleting his posts, I thought the OP was being pretty self-aware and realised that it was his issue and his cross to bear and that he needed to address it within himself and was planning on seeking professional therapy. 

He knew he wasn't in his right to point fingers at her and punish her today for what she did before she even met him,, but her past effected his current esteem for her today nonetheless. He recognised that as his issue and seeks to address that within himself. 

From the posts of his that I read, I did not come away with the impression he was assigning her value based on the number of penises she has had per se. What I came away with is what bothered him was her mentality and emotional state and self esteem etc etc that lead her to having a series of ONSs and casual hook ups etc in the first place. 

Did the numbers matter? Well yeah because the numbers further reinforce the pattern. Hooking up with 40 to assuage ones loneliness and self esteem and ego issues shows a deeper and more ingrained pattern than 3 or 4. 

RJ is a complex and highly toxic and destructive entity. It's not just feeling a bit intimidated that one's partner has been with someone bigger or better in bed and that you need to get over it because it is the past, nor do you just need to bump up your game so that you come out on top. It's a complex and potentially destructive thing that can often require professional intervention and therapy to overcome if the relationship is to survive in a healthy and happy manner going forward. 

And sometimes it is simply too much to overcome and the relationship does not survive.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> No I think it's legit RJ. I just think RJ comes in different combinations and permutations and is the sum of a variety of different parts that can vary from one person to the next. One person's RJ is not necessarily the same as another person's RJ.
> 
> Is there some judgementalism involved in it? Of course. we all make 1000 judgements a day whether we want to or not.
> 
> ...


Maybe, the thinking is so foreign to me that maybe I don't understand it. I have never been the jealous type, even when I was cheated on I just left, felt like the other guy could have her. In my mind she blew it. Haha. It was a blow to my ego, but I wasn't jealous. I know there are people out there who are better then me in everything I do. That's life. It's not the point. Maybe I'm probably too confident. I also never saw sex as performing, I see it as connecting. 

I will say if what you say is true, could any relationship survive if you think like that? I doubt it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sokillme said:


> OP what would you do is some guy called your wife the "W" word that we know all women hate? I know I would ****ing try to pull anyone's trachea out of his throat if they said that about my wife or my sisters, or any women I know and love. However, if oldshirt is right, then this is kind of what your own self conscience is doing.
> 
> OP since you are traditional with the idea that wives are move valuable if they are innocent thinking. I am going to appeal to you in a very traditional way. You are this women's husband. Maybe she has not found it in herself to give herself the grace to let this part of her history go. But either way your job as her husband is to protect her, even from herself or yourself. You can't do that if you agree with the assessment. If you agree with the assessment then you are hurting her. I know what I would do to someone actively hurting my wife.
> 
> So lets speak plainly here (I know, I know). Is your wife's value about how many ****s she has had in her? (Again being blunt but my point is lets get down to what this kind of thinking really is). AGAIN, DO YOU VALUE YOUR WIFE BY THE AMOUNT OF ****S THAT HAVE BEEN IN HER? I don't know about you, but would never let my wife (who I have invested my entire life in and who has proven to me I made a good choice) I would let no one judge her by her worst insecurities, if I knew someone was doing that I would go stomp them. I would stomp them for her first, but also for myself. I made an excellent choice in who I married. I think the best choice I ever made in my life. As her husband and her protector DO THAT, even if the people doing is your self conscience.


To address this part, to reiterate, I do think he is addressing this. 

He has been very open that this is HIS issue and that he is seeking to address it. He is trying to not treat her bad in anyway due to his feelings about her past and he is seeking assistance trying to get his bad feelings about her past under control so he doesn't treat her badly.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Maybe, the thinking is so foreign to me that maybe I don't understand it. I have never been the jealous type, even when I was cheated on I just left, felt like the other guy could have her. In my mind she blew it. Haha. It was a blow to my ego, but I wasn't jealous. I know there are people out there who are better then me in everything I do. That's life. It's not the point. Maybe I'm probably too confident. I also never saw sex as performing, I see it as connecting.
> 
> I will say if what you say is true, could any relationship survive if you think like that? I doubt it.


If you haven't experienced RJ, then my suggestion is run all that by @Sfort and have him let you know how much merit that all has. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't. 

RJ is not like getting cheated on in a current relationship just like smashing your thumb with a hammer is not like stepping on a nail. 

Can relationships survive it and be happy and healthy? Like everything, that depends on severity and context and the specifics of the situation. The short answer is, yes, some certainly can but many may need professional intervention and therapy. Others may not.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Due to the OP heavily editing his posts, this thread is now closed to further replies


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