# Blew lid off wife's most recent EA about month ago...I'm lost



## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

you mentioned EA#1, #2 and #3. Has your wife been involved with 3 different men or are these different EA's with the same man?


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Three different men, years apart. 

In a way, her having a problem with accepting this attention is almost a good thing as it's something to focus on, rather than her just having zero guilt in laying down with other guys wherever she feels the need to.

To add a little more, we have what we think/thought is a great relationship, hardly any fighting, we have always remained affectionate, please each other sexually (but realize the kids have gone from being a hurdle to our sex life to an excuse so we really needed to put more effort in, they are so exhausting as we all know), and adore our kids and do everything together as a family. 

Best case, we caught this before is became physical, but the first night this blew up she did give me a puzzled look when I asked if they were physical and said "umm, have you seen him lately"? Not a looker. Not to toot my horn, but I'm mid-30s, can do 30 pull-ups, and have taken care of myself and can support the family financially - - - the guys she has let in too close to her all share this - not smart and financially broke. 

That all could be meaningless...I guess it is considering what she offered #3.

Also interestingly, of the friends I've opened up to, generally speaking, men are spooked by this and suggest I just up and leave, but women seem to understand and consider it something we can work through. They always say it's not about looks for girls. . . I can relate.


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## mr.miketastic (Aug 5, 2010)

lovestruckout said:


> Three different men, years apart.
> 
> In a way, her having a problem with accepting this attention is almost a good thing as it's something to focus on, rather than her just having zero guilt in laying down with other guys wherever she feels the need to.
> 
> ...



Check the bolded above. That was not a no, but a deflection.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Good catch, Mr Mike! I never even noticed that!

Struck out,
Get yes or no answers. Once deflection starts, you lose the upper hand in the conversation.

As for the affairs, you let her get away with them, throughout your entire relationship. So, now she thinks there is no issue if you catch her, because you just end up shrugging it off or forgiving her too fast. What are the consequences now? Are there any?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

She has had 1EA,2EA,3EA. And you say *"We are both heavily invested to trying to fix this *

My friend that is BS. You are heavily invested. By her actions she is not. Time to wake up.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

This is going to sound harsh - but I think it needs to be said to lay some groundwork.

Your wife sounds like a floozy. From your account, she slept around A LOT before getting married. Then you got married, and it sounds like she stopped (although not 100% sure). Then she missed the attention she was getting from all those guys she slept with over the years. It's not unlike a guy who can't settle down, even after getting married. 

So while keeping her pants on by force, she sought the attention emotionally. It didn't even matter if the guy was good looking, she kept getting the attention she craved.

Now you caught her. Again. It sounds like getting attention from one man isn't enough to satisfy her needs. She either needs to get counseling to fix this, or she'll keep doing what she is doing. 

Maybe you can ramp it up, but even with that effort, I still think she'll need help.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

When I read your post, I saw: civil services, alpha males, and academy. This leads me to believe that your WW is in some type of law enforcement or firefighting agency. Through the psychological screening process, they screen out the betas because that's the nature of the job. And believe me, if this is the case, then she will get *ALOT* of attention from the males if she is halfway decent looking. This profession is not at all good for marriages, and the majority of people in this profession have divorces. Its like a soap opera at times with constant gossip about who is sleeping with whom. 

If this is the case, then she needs to change professions if you want any hope of salvaging the marriage. At this point, she has become a serial cheater and is thoroughly enjoying all the attention she is getting from the rest of the alpha males on the job. If she is already sexting and sending nude photos of herself to her OM, then I would say its likely she has already gone PA with at least one of them. You don't send nude photos of yourself to someone you haven't been intimate with already. It's all part of the fantasy that builds up the sexual tension for the next physical encounter.

She either changes her profession and becomes remorseful and transparent, or she keeps the same job. If she keeps the same job, then its only a matter of time before you will be divorced. Sorry, but that's the way I see it from real life experience.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

As many have said, I wish I joined this site sooner. Very helpful comments, which are accurate in my opinion. I do agree that the level she chose to operate at with guys in college could likely be the catalyst to needing/craving the attention from other men. I also agree that her profession has the potential to end this relationship for good, but we're all over that and she is planning on quitting as soon as possible (once benefits and pension items are figured out).

With respect to not showing her consequences in the previous situations, which possibly gave her the feeling that "hey, I can continue to do this with nary a slap on the wrist", I did speak up and express my dissatisfaction, but clearly it wasn't enough of a protest on my part. Let me be clear, this is different and it was one of those situations where I really didn't need to say anything. Whatever she saw in my eyes when we were staring at each other face to face the night I told her I knew everything. . . it scared the sh!t out of her like never before.

This has been really hard for her, but more because of the shock of what's coming out of me. She says she feels like complete garbage now that Pandora's box has not only been opened, but beaten with a baseball bat. I know there is a fine like to dance on with respect to bringing up old history, and yes, I need to accept some of that history prior to us tying the knot, but at the same time, if we want to work on remaining together I am different man and no stone will be left unturned. In a way, this is almost a stress test on her as she needs to be able to handle what I throw at her considering she has caused this mess.

I'm not crazy about her therapist...he seems to be siding with her and is all about "the past is the past, gotta move forward". I'm fine with that, but I want to make sure we understand what the past exactly is before we move forward. He also doesn't believe in psychotherapy apparently so he wasn't interested in exploring any compulsory behavioral issues. . .he's using the cognitive approach. My therapist (which started as our MC, but she said we're not ready for MC as I have too much pent up anger), takes a different approach so it's good to share both angles.

On the bright side, wife is showing me that she's willing to do whatever it takes to make me gain trust and has not texted or said a word to the other guy since the explosion. She said she's a zombie now at work where she just puts her head into her work and does not engage in any conversation with guys around the office. Her close girlfriend is now working in her group too, and she's happy to have her there.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

The 2 of you have a long history---(back to HS) of screwing around on each other, and you both accepted being with others as no big thing---so she figured he doesn't really care, hasn't cared in the past---so what i do is fine----THAT HAS BEEN HER ATTITUDE---You never made it specifically, with consequences, clear that what she did was inappropriate

SHE SHOULD HAVE HAD ENUFF BRAINS THO, WHEN SHE TOOK VOWS TO KNOW ALL THE ACTIVITIES WITH OTHER MEN STOP AS OF NOW

She is married, both of you do not need to be with single friends, you are to be with each other, and married friends, that CANNOT cause harm to your mge

As for now---you need to lay in specific boundaries, with dealbreaker consequences, that you will ACT ON, not talk about but act on

As to counselor---if you don't like her---demand your wife find another counselor---if your wife wants to stay in mge, she now plays by your rules, and your rules ONLY

Take away her cellphone and e-mail potential completely---and please do not tell me she can't get along w/out them---this world got along w/out cellphones for wellover 5 thousand yrs.

As to work---if she can't stop associating with the guys at work, she needs to leave that job, or transfer to another unit

She is not to involve herself with other men---IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM

You needed to put your foot down, when she got to involved with other guy and his family, you didn't---same for when she dissed you on your birthday---you didn't---well it's now time

She gets ZERO TOLERANCE, about anything---she lies, cheats, decieves, manipulates, connives, and she knows how to get away with doing those things---it all stops RIGHT NOW---make it very plain to her

She stays off the computer, and phone---let her spend time with her kids, do hobbies, etc.

DO NOT ACCEPT any excuses from her whatsoever-----she is to be completely open with you, and she must know that once she took vows, she agreed to no privacy---she wanted to keep her privacy she needed to stay single

Also cool off on the lovey-dovey, and mr. nice guy for a while----what she did has to have accountability, and consequences


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

The other issue. We are deadlocked as far as whether or not any of these affairs were PA or not. That is what can kill the marriage, and I've said already numerous times that infidelity is not what could force me to leave, it's the dishonesty. Her story hasn't really deviated from the original one, and I've had her bring up the men while she was with her IC, as well as when we were both at our MC - the MC was prodding her and simply said "your husband wants you to say you had sex with him". She was crying and responded "it's not true and he keeping bringing that up over and over".

So with pressure from me and at lease one counselor, she has not admitted to anything more than "EA#1 tried to kiss me".

So perhaps this is the case. My body continues to react as if something physical happened though. How on earth can I believe her? 

Is there any other approach I can take to attempt to give her another chance to tell me if there is any more that she hasn't yet told me, as lies will cause me to walk out the door, but infidelity will not? I do worry that my repeated bantering about sex, in the event it didn't happen, may lead her to believe all hope is lost and just give up. Of course this is a test in itself as to how committed she is to the family, but I'm trying to avoid permanent damage as we both want to repair this.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

What do you mean, "We are deadlocked as far as whehter or not these affairs were PA or not."

That issue should be black and white. It is WAS a PA or it wasn't. 

I skimmed your post cause it was too long but the thing is: what do you want? If you want to reconcile she cannot have any contact with other men That is a non-negotiable. No if, ands, or buts about it. If she can't adhere to that, you need to decide whether you want to keep living in a marriage where you're constantly disrespected OR remove yourself as an option. You need to lay down the law. Tell her those are the only two options: cut off all contact OR lose me forever.

Yes, it really is that simple.

She has totally destroyed your trust with SEVERAL men. Don't let her back in easy. She needs to EARN her way back through actions. Do not fear losing her. Do not fear letting her go if you have to. DO not fear telling her it's one or the other (them or you). 

Fear is an emotion that keeps you from doing necessary things.

Get tested for STDs. 

Get counselling for yourself. And together if you decidie to reconcile. But as long as she is in contact with other men, I wouldn't do MC with her. There is no point of MC or a "fake" reconciliation as long as she is entertaining other dudes on the side.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You need to amend this:

_Go upstairs, turn on the lights in bedroom, sit on the bed, and calmly say, "We need to talk". I show her the one month of material and she says "I've told you, he and I are really close". My ace though, was the fact that on all the nights I was out helping friends or away for work, she was doing the picture thing with her buddy. I drop it on her and I can see the blank stare in her eyes. She knows I'm not leaving the bedroom believing any more lies. All I say is I know at the least what is going on, I will not believe anything she says next, and* I'm not sure where things go from here*". _

and tell her.....

"As long as this is happening, there is nothing going on between you and me."

Finito.


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## purrhotstuff (Apr 21, 2011)

I am sorry Lovestruckout. Your world must feel turned upside down right now.


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## Scottt (Feb 25, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> he needs to change professions if you want any hope of salvaging the marriage. At this point, she has become a serial cheater and is thoroughly enjoying all the attention she is getting from the rest of the alpha males on the job. If she is already sexting and sending nude photos of herself to her OM, then I would say its likely she has already gone PA with at least one of them. You don't send nude photos of yourself to someone you haven't been intimate with already. It's all part of the fantasy that builds up the sexual tension for the next physical encounter.
> 
> She either changes her profession and becomes remorseful and transparent, or she keeps the same job. If she keeps the same job, then its only a matter of time before you will be divorced. Sorry, but that's the way I see it from real life experience.




I agree with Lordmayhem completely. And seriously, if your wife has this degree of involvement with other men on an ongoing basis, while leaving you at home feeling sorry for yourself and sifting through phone bills, does it really matter whether there has been actual penetration or not? Isn't what you've described bad enough?



lovestruckout said:


> I also agree that her profession has the potential to end this relationship for good, but we're all over that and she is planning on quitting as soon as possible (once benefits and pension items are figured out).
> 
> On the bright side, wife is showing me that she's willing to do whatever it takes to make me gain trust. . . .


If you and your wife really are serious about saving your marriage, she shouldn't go back to work in that environment. I mean, like, at all: she should call them tomorrow and say she's not coming back, and if she has any personal items at the workplace you can go retrieve them for her. Short of that, it sounds to me like she's just buying time. You guys are a long way from retirement, so the thing about pension and benefits is more like an excuse than a reason.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I know to some there is a major difference, if there was physical contact, or it stayed emotional only---but the bottom line to all of this---she was with another man---she knew what the consequences would be, she knew she was "dissing" you, and the mge., and she still continued on---up to what 3,000 times a month---at this point what's the difference anymore physical or not---it happened, and she has rubbed your face in it!!!!!!!

There is another thing I think you need to worry about, your wife has sent naked pictures of herself out to this man, and who knows who else---I would be very worried that these pictures get out, and end up on the internet----I would hate for you to have a child, and years from now have a friend, or acquaintace of your child, say to him/her---guess what i saw nude pics of your mother on the internet-------that would be pretty traumatic----you need to deal with these pictures, and get them destroyed----

---Your wife seems to be a real piece of work-------Has it clicked into her brain at all that she is actually married, and supposed to act like a responsible, mature, adult????????


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

mr.miketastic said:


> Check the bolded above. That was not a no, but a deflection.


I concur with this. Get a yes or no to the PA questions and look her dead in the eye.

You need to understand they always affair down and looks are not nearly as important to women. My W's AP was old (20 yrs her senior) and ugly but that didn't stop her in the end.

If she had a PA she will most likely not confess to it but looking at her history there's a very good chance she has with any of her EAs.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Read up about trickle-truth... classic, classic pattern. I'm a victim of it (at first it was 'nothing', then kissed "2 or 3 times", then it was more than a dozen, then it was phone sex, then it was shirt off once"........) From your story it sounds like we're in very similar reltaionships.

Not trying to freak you out, but if I had to bet money I'd wager they kissed. My wife was an egomaniac too. He fed her need for attention, to feel attractive, to have the thrill of the chase. It went too far; she regrets it. But it happened. Often. You need yes/no answers.

That said, you can get through this. But it has to start with honesty and transparency.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, I've been going hard at her with respect to the PA aspect, and her story has not wavered much. I even have listened to some phone conversations she has had with some girlfriends that she confided with about the situation, and nothing has come up during the conversations that suggests otherwise. I thought that if something was burning up inside of her that she'd likely say to a friend "i don't know how much longer I can lie about things, etc. . . ". 

Our MC, which is now at the moment my IC, also bluntly said to her after working up to the question "your husband wants you to say that you had sex with him". She's emotional in general, so she's been crying during our sessions, and she said "I didn't and he keeps asking me, and I feel like he's never going to believe me".

So the question has been asked numerous times by me, she has discussed the situations with her IC, and our MC, and nothing has wavered. She did offer that EA#1 tried to kiss her, and this doesn't surprise me as I already knew he had sexual interest in her. She knew it too, but we already know she liked to be liked.

I'm nearing the point where I'll either never believe what she is saying, or I have to accept that this was an attention thing that remained emotional. We have both decided though that if all hope is lost on the trust, the marriage is in trouble. She understands that we have a lot of rebuilding to do, and the trust isn't going to come back immediately, but as long as we find a starting point, we'll be ready to rebuild.

Over the weekend, when we're both comfortable after watching a show, I'm going to sit down, put her hand on my heart, and ask the yes or no questions.

Oh, btw, my therapist thinks that her needs for attention may stem from the fact that she has never had any boundaries from her parents. She considerably younger than her brother and sister (mistake 3rd child), and her parents are totally out of touch with the world. If we didn't have kids, they may still think their fast lane daughter was a virgin. I can attest to how clueless they were. We were pretty good kids growing up...no drugs, limited alcohol, but they [parents] would have had no idea. Counselor thinks she has been compensation for the attention she never got from her parents.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

The fact remains: as long as she's involved in an EA/contact with ANY of the OM, you have zero marriage. NONE.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Guess we're starting right at least. She has had zero contact since D-day. Yes, she needs to get out of the job pronto, but for now, in the event she needs to communicate with him on a work level, she has her girlfriend deliver the message. There is no contact.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

When is she getting out of the job? What steps has she taken for that?


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Many here will disagree, but I can believe she didn't have sex with him if she insists and you can believe the look in her eyes.

Question is, what else might have happened and do you want to know? If you do want to know (think about it; be _sure_ you do), then you or your MC should be asking with equal bluntness. Like others said here, with answers in Yes/No terms... IF you want to know.

Sorry you're here; good luck to you!


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Just a quick update. Things are going ok. Not great, but ok. I've settled down from my initial manic reaction of trying to immediately fill the void I thought she needed. Effing doormat I was out of the gate...letting her off three days into the rebuilding. Sex was passionate and pretty intense, but I admit I was being unfair in that we'd have sex, then while laying on the bed I'd jump back into the what's and why's.

So I cooled off and have been doing a soft 180 of sorts. It's certainly being noticed, where she's making sure we have our normal amount of contact throughout the day, despite me putting in little effort. I feel like I need to be careful though as even though I'm entitled to feel like I deserve this all, I don't want her to think her efforts are for naught...she is genuinely really doing everything she can to show how sorry she was. I suppose I'm fortunate that at the least I'm not dealing with what some people have to endure, and that is a spouse they dearly want to hold on to, yet one that is more connected to the OM.

Simply bringing things up makes her cry and say things like "of course I think about it, I think about it all the time and I'm going to think about it for the rest of my life...I know it's the 1000# gorilla in the room."

Tonight I plan to have the discussion once more about whether or not she's offering everything to me. Maybe some people could move on at this point, but it's important to me that in the event there are a couple more skeletons hiding in the back of the closet, she 'mans' up and tells me everything at the most crucial point in our marriage. As others agree, one of the many things that is non-negotiable is that I won't begin to rebuild unless I feel that it is all out on the table. And I honestly think she is finally a changed woman, but a new start deserves all the old details. If there are any, maybe I'll never know, and I'm not going to throw it all away because of that, but I'm not at the point where I can fully believe her yet. This may be completely related to the time line though. . .it's only been about 6 weeks since D-day. I guess I'm still damaged goods right now.

It will be eye to eye and I will only ask for Y and N answers. I'm going to ease into the important questions with a lead up of "are you ever going to lie to me again"? And then just be frank about the fact that this is her chance to be honest about anything else she hasn't offered...and if I discover or suspect something in the future, that will be the deal breaker and there will be no sit downs, only a trip to the lawyers office.

Thanks for all the support in here, it really helps to discuss things with others that are going through similar situations.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

lovestruckout said:


> And then just be frank about the fact that this is her chance to be honest about anything else she hasn't offered...and if I discover or suspect something in the future, that will be the deal breaker and there will be no sit downs, only a trip to the lawyers office.


Make sure you follow through with that.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

lovestruckout said:


> ...she is genuinely really doing everything she can to show how sorry she was. I suppose I'm fortunate that at the least I'm not dealing with what some people have to endure, and that is a spouse they dearly want to hold on to, yet one that is more connected to the OM..


Is she being transparent, I mean WILLINGLY transparent? You can't force her to be transparent, she has to want to be. There is a difference between guilt and remorse. Remorse is when she is not just thinking about her feelings but genuinely feels your pain. If shes really remorseful about the A, then she will do anything to help rebuild trust with you and regain your love.



lovestruckout said:


> Simply bringing things up makes her cry and say things like "of course I think about it, I think about it all the time and I'm going to think about it for the rest of my life...I know it's the 1000# gorilla in the room.".


Beware of any crocodile tears. Don't let her try to sweep it under the rug. If she puts on the waterworks anytime its brought up to make you not want to talk about it, then its rugsweeping and she isn't owning up to her sh!t.



lovestruckout said:


> Tonight I plan to have the discussion once more about whether or not she's offering everything to me. Maybe some people could move on at this point, but it's important to me that in the event there are a couple more skeletons hiding in the back of the closet, she 'mans' up and tells me everything at the most crucial point in our marriage. As others agree, one of the many things that is non-negotiable is that I won't begin to rebuild unless I feel that it is all out on the table. .


You may not want to know the little details, but like most people, you need to know what you are forgiving before you can move on.



lovestruckout said:


> And I honestly think she is finally a changed woman, but a new start deserves all the old details. If there are any, maybe I'll never know, and I'm not going to throw it all away because of that, but I'm not at the point where I can fully believe her yet. This may be completely related to the time line though. . .it's only been about 6 weeks since D-day. I guess I'm still damaged goods right now..


Trust is going to take time to rebuild. It's only 6 weeks out for you, and you may still be in the shocked phase. You may hit your anger phase sooner or later. It will all depend on how remorseful she is and how transparent she is. You need to invest in some computer monitoring software, phone monitoring software, and possibly a VAR. As time goes by and her actions show she is keeping NC, and your monitoring turns up nothing, you start to regain some measure of trust and monitor her less as time goes by.



lovestruckout said:


> ...and if I discover or suspect something in the future, that will be the deal breaker and there will be no sit downs, only a trip to the lawyers office.
> 
> Thanks for all the support in here, it really helps to discuss things with others that are going through similar situations.


Like JB said, make sure you stick to it and that she knows you will stick to it. Remember, if any OM contacts her and she does not immediately inform you, that is also breaking NC because its a lie of omission. Make sure she knows that is a deal breaker.


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## Wolf359 (Jun 10, 2010)

some people on the board have had very good luck with a lie detector. I would search for a post, or two on it. Just setting a date and time, along with the print outs from the service, set people off to tell the truth. It is not hard to setup and do it. I would, if I had doubts about my wife again. People use them a lot more nowadays, then 5 years ago. They are 95% + accurate. Just the idea of it, scares the truth out of people. I have read that from the mans point of view. It helps calm the mind, more then anything else out there. It's very very had to trick when you are a very sad or already very remorseful. Just think about it. For me, to calm my mind, it's worth the the money. Just remember divorce costs 40 times more, that's without child support.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

RestlessinGeorgia was successful with the poly.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26252-found-out-wife-cheated-first-year-our-marriage-7-years-later-4.html


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> When is she getting out of the job? What steps has she taken for that?


Regarding this question, let me explain my logic, and I'm sure many will disagree.

She has approximately 8 months until she reaches 10 years, where she can vest out and get pension/benefits for her time. For her to leave now, she would fall back to 5 years.

Yes, I agree that it is stupid to put a couple of bucks ahead of salvaging everything we have built together; however, her contact with OM is minimal to none at this point, and he was already changing shifts (regardless of the EA being exposed) so that they will never be in the office together.

While it is not fully NC at the moment, it's damn close, and I will present the NC concept after my therapy session this week.

Now, hedging the situation, a small part of me thinks her keeping the job is good in the fact that if things don't work out (it's early and I imagine the possibility exists for things to turn for the worse, as much as I don't want that), I suppose it would be good for her to be working w/respect to settlement. I hate considering that, but it's life I guess. 

So I have two scenarios, both of which aren't fantastic. She stays and I accept that there will inevitably be some exchanges, perhaps on the stairs or in the hallway, or she leaves and I foot a bigger bill if things don't work out. 

OR she stays, quits as planned next year, and we live happily ever after with her 10 years under the belt hahahahahaha :rofl: It's tragically funny that this couldn't just be taken for granted. Hopefully in time it can be, but I needed the laugh I just gave myself.


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## Scottt (Feb 25, 2011)

lovestruckout said:


> Her contact with OM is minimal to none at this point, and he was already changing shifts (regardless of the EA being exposed) so that they will never be in the office together.


How do you know this? Have you dropped in at the workplace a few times and asked for each of them? Is their work schedule available online? Have you verified it with their supervisor? Or are you just going by what your wife or one of her friends told you? I'm just trying to get a picture of what the work situation is like, and how you know who's doing what where and when.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Scottt said:


> How do you know this? Have you dropped in at the workplace a few times and asked for each of them? Is their work schedule available online? Have you verified it with their supervisor? Or are you just going by what your wife or one of her friends told you? I'm just trying to get a picture of what the work situation is like, and how you know who's doing what where and when.


_Posted via Mobile Device_

I don't. However, this was a sloppy affair. So much information at my disposal, but admittedly I let it go on. I suppose it's time to consider contacting the OM's wife.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

lovestruckout said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> I don't. However, this was a sloppy affair. So much information at my disposal, but admittedly I let it go on. I suppose it's time to consider contacting the OM's wife.


You didn't let it go on, like the rest of us here, we TRUSTED our spouses to do the right thing and not cheat.

If this is the case and there is NC, then yes, it would be better to wait out the 8 months. But no longer than that. Sometimes, they just wait until the dust settles, then when they think the coast is clear, they resume contact. So its good that you are contacting the OMW. You already know that you will have to be on guard until she leaves her job.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

...


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

As she's herself stated, you keep saying that any information not volunteered by her and that you discover will be THE final deal-breaker. You want more of her disrespectful "f-ck you"s?

Well THE deal-breaker has materialized, you have it right in front of you, so what else is do you need to put the final nail on the coffin?

You can do whatever you want but I fail to see why would you ask her questions for which you already have the answers?


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

2xloser said:


> Read up about trickle-truth... classic, classic pattern. I'm a victim of it (at first it was 'nothing', then kissed "2 or 3 times", then it was more than a dozen, then it was phone sex, then it was shirt off once"........) From your story it sounds like we're in very similar reltaionships.
> 
> Not trying to freak you out, but if I had to bet money I'd wager they kissed. My wife was an egomaniac too. He fed her need for attention, to feel attractive, to have the thrill of the chase. It went too far; she regrets it. But it happened. Often. You need yes/no answers.
> 
> That said, you can get through this. But it has to start with honesty and transparency.


Finally made progress last night in our talks, and 2x, my situation is IDENTICAL to what you are dealing with. You were spot on.

I found some bill records last week that proved she was at the OM's house on a day she was supposed to have training. We discussed this last Thursday but I was angry and it just didn't come out.

I tried a different approach last night and was calm and collected. I told her I have an appointment with a divorce lawyer after work today (I think I mentioned it last week too), and that her story she has told me does not make sense, and that this is her opportunity to tell me what I need to know, but that I was not going to run away from the kitchen table when she told me things that were going to hurt.

She finally was able to open up and as expected, it was more than 'just phone sex'. The gist of it was that there was kissing and heavy petting going on, but the one chance they had the opportunity to have sex, she couldn't go through with it. For some reason, I'm going to believe her, even though she has been lying about these details over the last 7 weeks. She did offer some details about where and when things were happening that I had not asked previously, so I feel like she was finally at the point where there was no reason to keep anything from me.

I also mentioned if she would agree to a polygraph, and she said yes she would cause now she has nothing to hide.

And guess what? I don't feel any worse. As I was saying to her all along, for me to really put effort into R, I/we needed absolute honesty with no stone left un-turned. I think we may finally be there.


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## strongwomanof1984 (Jul 20, 2011)

lovestruckout said:


> Three different men, years apart.
> 
> In a way, her having a problem with accepting this attention is almost a good thing as it's something to focus on, rather than her just having zero guilt in laying down with other guys wherever she feels the need to.
> 
> ...


I have been dealing with the same thing over the years. In the past 3 years my H is on his 3rd EA session. And I say session because its not like its just one girl, its dating sites where he is talking to several....

I feel you emotional pain believe me. To a girl, or just about every girl I have spoken to, says that an EA is much much MUCH more painful than an actual PA. I have gotten to the point where I have an anxiety attack just taking the dog for a walk at night leaving him at the house alone because of who he may be talking to or what website he may be on.

It is something that I learned to looked past, at least the first two times but now that there is a 3rd, its just at the point where enough is enough. 

I hope you can learn to build up trust for her again. Its hard I agree, we got 3 kids and its very hard to just walk away....Good Luck!!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

As to her work----let her finish the 8 months, as lets admit it---you need money, and when you get older, and no one will hire you---the more retirement you have, the longer you will hang in------unfortunately---money runs the world---

Also if she can prove that she is NC at work---maybe it best she stay there anyway---cuz if at some point you do wish to put D., on the table ----her having a job, means you don't pay alimony!!!!!!!


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

lovestruckout said:


> Finally made progress last night in our talks, and 2x, my situation is IDENTICAL to what you are dealing with. You were spot on.
> 
> I found some bill records last week that proved she was at the OM's house on a day she was supposed to have training. We discussed this last Thursday but I was angry and it just didn't come out.
> 
> ...


If my experience helped you to press an issue, gain clarity, or even just feel you're not alone -- then it's all good and that is what this forum is all about.

Sorry you're here, but glad it's going like you want it. I will say, even once I got to the place of thinking "I'm going to believe her", I pressed and pressed and pressed. Only then, after the story got consistent for a long period of time, did I get there. I would be siure to do the same... it is amazing how often we read about lengthy time period of trickle truth (months and months of time....) What I realized, unfortunately, is that once I said "if there's anymore that comes out now, it's totally over and I leave" -- there was no more to come out unless she decides she _wanted_ it to be over, because there were no more choices. So take that counsel too.... and good luck.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I am going to go against the flow here. You have done your due diligence and she has shown remorse and a desire to R. Lay down the boundaries for the future and focus on healing the relationship and her working on her needs for attention. As for you, it is never black and white as to the issues in a relationship before the EA or PA. You are absolutely NOT to blame for her bad decisions and the EA/PA. You do need however to look a the relationship, her needs, what made her vulnerable, where communication trust and honesty broke down and what part you had in those marriage issues. It takes both of you to make this work. Your goal must be to improve the relationship and eliminate those vulnerabilities. You must get communication completely open and brutally honest with nothing held back to protect the other or make peace. Self introspection and deep thought about these things will bring success. What can you do differently?


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

2xloser said:


> If my experience helped you to press an issue, gain clarity, or even just feel you're not alone -- then it's all good and that is what this forum is all about.
> 
> Sorry you're here, but glad it's going like you want it. I will say, even once I got to the place of thinking "I'm going to believe her", I pressed and pressed and pressed. Only then, after the story got consistent for a long period of time, did I get there. I would be siure to do the same... it is amazing how often we read about lengthy time period of trickle truth (months and months of time....) What I realized, unfortunately, is that once I said "if there's anymore that comes out now, it's totally over and I leave" -- there was no more to come out unless she decides she _wanted_ it to be over, because there were no more choices. So take that counsel too.... and good luck.


With a little help from the VAR, it appears, despite how it looks, that this seems to be the extent of things. But now we're trying to grapple with why she chose to have an affair with a guy she says she's not attracted to, in a relationship we thought had no issues, with a husband she says she has no problems with. Oh boy, something is certainly wrong here, yet right now, she says she has no answers for me. Guess we need to explore this together.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Then we ARE in similar situations. Don't give up. The answers are there... they might not even be reasonable, but they're someplace to be brought out. You may not like them nor accept them, but they'll get identified. Need for attention/feeling special, basic thrill of the chase, loneliness, boredom, feeling newly attractive since she lost weight, or other issues that really have little to do with what you didn't do *wrong*, but somehow wasn't enough getting done *right*... tough to swallow for me. Yet I think getting caught was a complete, 180-degree turn wake-up call that's made her realize and recognize how she messed up, and how much she wants us to work. Not sure it will (from my side, really not able to forgive and move on knowing I'm married to someone _capable_ of cheating on me), but good to know she wants it to work out.

Good move on the VAR...


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

2xloser said:


> Yet I think getting caught was a complete, 180-degree turn wake-up call that's made her realize and recognize how she messed up, and how much she wants us to work. Not sure it will (from my side, really not able to forgive and move on knowing I'm married to someone _capable_ of cheating on me), but good to know she wants it to work out.
> 
> Good move on the VAR...


This (and the rest of your last post) is all accurate, but it runs deeper for us as this is her 3rd offense. In her 2nd EA, I questioned, I printed out the heavy stack of texting history for a month and dropped it on her lap, and she even said through the current blowup "I said to the OM in EA#2 that I don't want to ruin my marriage over this". So she ended EA#2.....but completely forgot/ignored her pact from EA#2, and one-upped it in EA/PA #3. I'm very focused on why she didn't learn from her mistake in EA#2, but she has little to nothing for me at the moment. 

Certainly, this time around she has woken up and is fighting for her life (in the marriage that is), and I see that, but I'm not letting her back in that easily given my actions in the last affairs were to wimpy for the woman I'm married to. I guess she needs a total alpha man who will go to her work and just knock out a guy that makes one positive comment to her, cause the things I've tried in the past did nothing.

It would be easier for me to move forward if we didn't have the previous affair history to also reflect on, and unfortunately we could end in D if these issues remain unanswered. I just see this as if there wasn't anything clearly wrong with our marriage that we can uncover, what the hell happens when she does get interest from an attractive man, or our marriage does hit a rough patch? 

We have established that she is incapable of having any relationships with someone of the opposite sex because anyone is a threat to the marriage, so maybe that alone, along with my help in letting her recognize when a guy is showing interest, will keep this proper. But then of course I have to deal with the 2nd job of baby sitting her throughout life so she doesn't get swept away. Argh.


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## howmuchcanamantake (Jul 19, 2011)

lovestruck, she is a hoe and always was, the way you describe her. Get her down from her pedestal and enjoy her while she is around but realize she is nothing special. Actually she is in open marriage, but you aren't. Time for you to find somebody who deeply cares for you. Don't suffer no more, she ain't worth it. You sound like a good person, you won't have problems finding someone who is worth loving, this one isn't wort your love. Join a dating agency on the internet, you'll find somebody who'll share your views. Even if its at a distance. If it wasn't for the kids, I'd say leave now and start a new life. Don't try anymore to turn her into something she'll never be. Good luck to you.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Thats the scary thing...not knowing why she did it. No wonder EA's keep happening.

How do you learn or fix a problem when you don't understand the cause? She has to face the "why" this is the biggest question to answer...at least from a stand point in preventing it from happening again.

Isn't that the thing here...confrontation [check], admission[check], know the important thing to check off the list....WHY!


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Because she's an attention addict, I'd have to believe. And she hasn't seen herself for what she is -- an addict -- nor treated it (nor have you seen it with that clarity). Not that it's easy... This comparison is the single thing that's hit home for me, and kind of makes it clear what your dealing with... and if you can deal with it.


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Sadly, my VAR came up with a deal killer. It turns out my wife had sex with someone when we were engaged, and this EA#3 was also sex. It's over. Thanks everyone for helping. Great forum. 

I will stay in touch.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

LSO, have you talked about this with her, or have you not brought this up yet?


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Yes I used deception to get her to come out with it. Strangely, I'm in a fog of my own right now, not too angry, just dissapointed that the kids will now have a broken home. It's not the life I wanted, but we really *had* a great marriage and from the way I see it, my stbxw will never change. It sucks. . .


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Some DS change, some don't. Doesn't sound like your W will. If she did it even before you married, you'll never be able to tell if she means to change. But, there are stories of R here that were nightmare cases, 8yearscheating's story comes to mind. Either way, stay calm and strong through divorce proceedigs (sounds like you're heading there). Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

lovestruckout said:


> Sadly, my VAR came up with a deal killer. It turns out my wife had sex with someone when we were engaged, and this EA#3 was also sex. It's over. Thanks everyone for helping. Great forum.
> 
> I will stay in touch.


Sorry that it has come to this and it is a deal breaker. Did the VAR catch her or the OM fishing? Or did it show the A is continuing?


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

lovestruckout said:


> Sadly, my VAR came up with a deal killer. It turns out my wife had sex with someone when we were engaged, and this EA#3 was also sex. It's over. Thanks everyone for helping. Great forum.
> 
> I will stay in touch.


Damn that is heartbreaking. Yet another case for pushing forward with pursuing what you know to be true in your gut... damn shame. Good luck.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

There's a wonderful song---(at this point you may not think so)----the lyrics apply---for all Betrayeds

"Someday you'll want me to want you"----patsy kline, vaughn monroe, mina, and the mills bros. sang it best-------play it for your wife sometime----

Take care of yourself---


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Whip Morgan said:


> Some DS change, some don't. Doesn't sound like your W will. If she did it even before you married, you'll never be able to tell if she means to change. But, there are stories of R here that were nightmare cases, 8yearscheating's story comes to mind. Either way, stay calm and strong through divorce proceedigs (sounds like you're heading there). Good luck
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not sure while I hold onto dreams, but should I even consider MC right now while being legally separated, or has the paint on the wall dried and I need to leave this unhealthy relationship immediately? Let's take deal breakers out of the equation for a second. . .


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

LSO- do you know who she was talking to on the VAR? could it have been the OM? I'd look for any clues that the affair has not stopped. Counseling can be a waste if she still has contact. After all the lies, it's hard to think straight, nevermind trying to determine if she genuinely wants to reconcile and rebuild with you.

She has been cheating and lying to you since before you were married. Based on these posts, I think she clearly does not want or know how to be a married woman. But that's a judgment of someone I dont know- which can happen easily here. 

You have to find out if you want to work on this marriage. And also determine that she wants to, as well. She is a serial cheater, but there are stories of successful recoveries. Look up RWB and 8yearscheating, they may be able to give you advice on how to act for a recovery. But it's up to you, and if you feel in your guy she isn't trying, I'd walk away. The most important thing I'd say is to stay emotionally calm. Easier said than done, though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ArabianKnight (Jul 24, 2011)

what is VAR?!!!


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Voice activated recorder
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Fortunately, I have a tremendous support system. I'm not just going to give up. We have too much invested in this with our family. Based on what some have said on this thread, the atmosphere she is in is so toxic that that given the circumstances. . . . one of the few attractive women in the precinct, a workplace where there is no HR and no form of sexual harassment, working closely with someone at 2AM in an empty office - what gave me the little bit of hope I need is my own mother, one of the purest people I know, who to my knowledge has only been with my father, even said she thinks it would have been very difficult for her to resist engaging given the opportunity.

The trickle truth has phucked me up in a monstrous way, so in essence, I'm back to day two, again. I need to give this some time, some hope, and we need intensive counseling. I know some have said they regretted throwing it away based on "deal breakers", and as corrupted as my wife's mind seems to be, she has been good to me in many perspectives.

This is not a relationship issue, this is an internal issue she has and we need to deal with it. 

I will not remain in a relationship solely for the kids if I can't ever get over this, but I am going to give it some time, some separation, some thinking, and some effort.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Okay , sounds like you have a firm grasp on your emotions, that's good. Now, do yu feel that she is finally being honest , and that she wants to genuinely reconcile with you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Whip Morgan said:


> Okay , sounds like you have a firm grasp on your emotions, that's good. Now, do yu feel that she is finally being honest , and that she wants to genuinely reconcile with you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She absolutely wants to reconcile, on Sunday night when I finalized the trickle truth she was hysterical on the phone for 10 minutes straight saying that she can't go on with life without me. I actually got concerned and needed to call one of her friends to make sure she didn't do anything irrational (she packs heat on her job).

Honest, I think so. I did schedule a polygraph, but my mom talked me out of it given that despite how accurate they are, in the event she fails, am I truly going to bail? I guess how much more damage can be done, it's effing bad. OK, I admit, _be sure you want the truth_ and I think I've got enough at this point.

She's still has a little denial going on though cause I've caught some comments on the phone tap like "I got away with it before and I thought I could get away with it again". Is our relationship a game to her? I will not hold back in the least at MC and she does realize I'm in the drivers seat. We get to the root of the problem or I walk. . . "I don't know what's wrong with me" isn't acceptable anymore.

I definitely got consumed with the 'truth', which hurts me even more, but it also has helped her realize just how epic this is. So it certainly had to get a lot worse before it could be at the point where we could start from scratch.


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## ArabianKnight (Jul 24, 2011)

you series "I got away with it before and I thought I could get away with it again"

AND YOU STILL WANT OR THINKING TO GIVE HER A CHANCE, I'M SORRY FOR YOUR KIDS BUT NOT FOR YOU. 
MAY BE YOU SHOULD CLAIM THE OTHER OM ON YOUR TAX AS WELL.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Ok, but one hysterical phone call doesnt mean she realized how much yu mean to her. It's possible she realized her little fantasy world is over and is having a hard time dealing with that. Either way, it's not just words, bt actions that show she is genuine. How to decipher what's real or not is the challenge. And yes, it's essential to find the reason why she cheated on you for the length of your relationship. Selfishness, arrogance, and complete lack of respect are part of it, but there is probably something more there. As you know, keeping composure will help the process, whether you divorce or not
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovestruckout (Jul 6, 2011)

Can anyone help suggest what specifics we should bring up at couple's therapy? Clearly her attention addiction for starters. Her inability to turn down flattery, which triggers something in her to give attention back?

Selfishness, my previous doormat responses to inappropriate relationships, her lack of guilt when doing these things.

Or should I take it a different route. Keep it simple - WHAT are the FUNDAMENTAL steps she absolutely needs to adhere to if she doesn't want me to divorce here in a matter of months?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

lovestruckout said:


> Can anyone help suggest what specifics we should bring up at couple's therapy? Clearly her attention addiction for starters. Her inability to turn down flattery, which triggers something in her to give attention back?
> 
> Selfishness, my previous doormat responses to inappropriate relationships, her lack of guilt when doing these things.
> 
> Or should I take it a different route. Keep it simple - WHAT are the FUNDAMENTAL steps she absolutely needs to adhere to if she doesn't want me to divorce here in a matter of months?


1. NC, NC, NC. She needs to write the NC letter in front of you and send it to the OM. If she receives any communication from the OM and doesnt tell you about it, then thats also breaking NC because its a lie of omission.
2. Since you are the victim of TT, then she should write out a timeline of the affairs, what, where, with whom. I've read that you should give at least a week, no more, to accomplish this.
3. Complete transparency. I'm sure you've read about that already.
4. She needs to show remorse, not guilt. Remorse is showing empathy about your hurt, not hers. That's the difference betwween remorse and guilt. 
5. MC, which you two are already doing.

It takes more than one phone call. If you've been on the site a while, I'm sure you've read all the instances where the WW or WH is crying, begging, pleading, putting on the waterworks; only to be continuing the A behind your back. She has to be consistent. Otherwise you are just looking at False R again. Remorse is a pillar for Reconciliation, without True Remorse, R will fail.

Here's a good table by Fighting2Survive at another forum:


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