# Trying to stay positive



## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

This is my first post on this site but have been here reading posts which has helped me tremendously with my sitch. I would love to get others input here as I am hurting so much. I am dealing with a classic walk away wife scenario. I've been married 6 six years to the love of my life and best friend. We have a beautiful 3 year old S together. My STBXW dropped the "I love but..." in March and I found out about her PA with a co-worker in June. Since then, we have been living in limbo and separately in the same house. I have been devastated since the bomb was dropped. Can't eat, can't sleep and have lost 20 pounds. I struggle to understand he we got to this point or how I don't even recognize my wife anymore. She used to be loving and now has a heart of stone towards me. Like others in this forum, I thought that we had some problems in the marriage but nothing serious. We have had a great life together and always did everything together. I have felt blindsided although reflecting back there were warning signs. I do take some responsibility to for factors that have led us to this point. My wife has an aggressive personality while I am a self diagnosed "nice guy" and have become a pleaser in my marriage in order to keep the peace. She views me now as a doormat and I believe she has lost respect for me. We are both in IC and have attended several MC sessions together. 

Throughout this time I have been reading as much as I can (Divorce Remedy, The Five Love Languages, No More Mr. Nice Guy) and have been trying to stay strong. I've been working out and trying to make the changes in my live that will make me the best person and dad. It is very hard as some days I feel like breaking down. Sometimes at work I just have uncontrollable tears streaming down my face. Luckily, I have a great family who have been there for me when I needed to lean on them. 

I have been trying to save my marriage alone as my wife doesn't see any hope in us reconciling. She has a lot of built up resentment toward me that she says she doesn't know if she can get over. I honestly don't know what more I can do as my wife is checked out and wants a D. I have tried to give her space and not pressured her. I've tried to let her know that I am there lovingly in the distance while trying to regain self respect that I lost the last few years. She says that I am a great dad and good guy and admits we have a great life together but she just doesn't love me passionately anymore. 

We have an appointment with a mediator in the next two weeks and while I don't want a D I know that I can't force her to be in a relationship with me nor do I want to be married to someone who doesn't want to be with me. I am 35 and know I could still have a great life. I am in great shape and people always tell me that I am good looking. Problem is I still love my wife, despite what she has done and am having trouble trying to move on. I really would like to save and transform my marriage but it is apparent to me that is unlikely. It hurts tremendously to lose the woman I love and my best friend.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You really need to be interacting with her according to the 180 now. Do this for your own mental and emotional health.

Are the two of you trying to reconcile? It sounds like she's not trying to at all.


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

Dude, you've ALREADY done all of the work. Now it's time to man up and take your own advice. What would the Jack of five years from now tell you? You've got to let Kate go and do whatever the hell it is she seems to think is more important than her marriage. Shuffling around in halfsteps and on your best behavior hasn't worked because you're the only person still in your marriage. You talk about how much she's changed but really it's that she's not the person you imagined she was.


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## StephenG (Nov 22, 2012)

I'm in the same boat as you are. My only advice is to go out and do things. When it all first happened I did my begging/pleading stage, then my 180 stage (where I still thought about it ALL the time), and now I'm doing stuff for ME.

I was sitting around thinking all the time and waiting for my wife's decision which I still am but now I'm not sitting around.
I have started going out with friends and doing stuff that make ME happy. It has taken my mind off of it tremendously.
There are still times I think about it but then I come onto this site and I get great support and advice to put me in a better position when my thoughts kick in.
I still cry, I still feel the need to break down, and I still love my wife but there's only so much one person can do. A marriage is a commitment between TWO people, not just one can work and fix it.

Go out, do things you enjoy, make yourself happy and know you're not alone.


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## TNman (Dec 24, 2012)

Jack-sorry to see you are here too. There must be an epidemic of WAW out there. Evidently wives are finding it much easier to move on-the LBH is blocked out of her heart and not given a chance to repair and reconnect after he realizes(too late) the WAW has checked out of the marriage emotionally and physically. In my case my kids(12 and17) have 'walked' too. She told them she was leaving a month or longer before she blindsided me out of the blue-probably helping them to checkout emotionally also. Plus thrown on top of that is their entry into adolescence where boys start to disconnect from their fathers as the father loses 'hero' status. I suspect there is an OM out there who is helping her to 'do it'. Yes I was an idiot for neglecting her and not recognizing that when there was a chance. And yes she is an idiot for suffering in silence while her love for me died allowing her to justify her actions and move on. As read here all I can do is focus on myself preparing for the rest of MY life. It is so difficult because we truly loved and love our walking ex and family. And that difficulty is compounded in knowing that everything I did during the final disengagement maneuvers was wrong. Oh to turn back time-but I and WE can't. I am worrying about my kids having the same emotions as her and the damaging effects on their lives that they will have forever-horrible horrible situation. Such indescribable suffering is simply created by lack of communication. Good luck to you and I pray that you will get a chance at R by following the guidance and support here.


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You really need to be interacting with her according to the 180 now. Do this for your own mental and emotional health.
> 
> Are the two of you trying to reconcile? It sounds like she's not trying to at all.


She is not interested in reconciling at this point. Just like StephenG I went through the begging and pleading stage and tried to set up romantic dates. When that didn't work, I started reading Divorce Remedy. I have been trying to implement my 180 such as going out more with friends and family and going to the gym and overall being more assertive in my interactions with her. They have helped but I still have a ways to go though. 

Orpheus - you make a valid point. I just struggle to understand how someone you love can change so much. She had struggled when she had my son and wonder if that plays any part in it. She will sometimes explode on me, my son or both when she is stressed. My therapist (who also saw her) says she is hyper reactive. She just finally agreed to take meds but fear it is still too late.

TNman, StephenG - I can't believe how many of us are in he same boat. I can't fathom how people can do this to their families, but that is just me. I'm sure your going through the same emotional hell. I worry about my son as well although he is a bit younger. Thanks everyone for heir support. I pray for you as well.


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## lee101981 (Sep 6, 2012)

Part of me is ready to wake up from this horrible dream but really don't see that happening anytime soon. I wonder what the future holds for me and my girls. I am trying my best to let go of the hurt and pain and disappointment that h caused when he walked away.
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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

Jack spade said:


> I just struggle to understand how someone you love can change so much. She had struggled when she had my son and wonder if that plays any part in it. She will sometimes explode on me, my son or both when she is stressed. My therapist (who also saw her) says she is hyper reactive. She just finally agreed to take meds but fear it is still too late.


That's my point, Jack. She probably hasn't changed all that much. She's probably finally just acting out on the inner turmoil she's been building up. Whatever the reason for acting she's doing her thing... the error is in your thinking she should be another way. You're wrestling with what you thought was your perception. Hoping that if you keep looking at it from different angles that you'll fall back into the delusion of your marriage. It doesn't work. It never works. It can't work. 

That's not to say that things can't ever get better between two people but it is with newer and more honest understanding about who each person is rather than trying to force the blinkers on and return to utopia.

You're no spring chicken, Jack. You've done your homework. You know that the next move is yours to make your life better.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

A sad welcome for you, I'm in the same boat. I lived with my H for 3 months while he was with POSOW, he moved out a month ago and in with her. Listen to what people say here, come and visit a lot, it will help you. Pour your heart out, people listen and help. I've also been in your wife's shoes and it sucks. She's going through her own emotional torture. She knows you're there for her, you've told her. Now you need to focus on you. Are you still going to marriage counselling? I suck at taking peoples advice but I'm getting better. Be prepared for the emotional rollercoaster ride of your life. Be kind to yourself and your kids.
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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Is she still involved in a PA?


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

TBT said:


> Is she still involved in a PA?


No she is not involved in PA anymore but I think since she got a taste and once her chemicals got flowing, it put the nail in the coffin for me. According to her it was a short fling and she doesn't even know how it happened. She stopped going to MC with me as she said she is DONE. 
This whole thing seems like a nightmare that you can't wake up from. I have my good days and other days I am a complete mess. Beside losing my wife I have many fears. I fear not seeing my boy all the time. I fear being alone and being a single parent. I fear the financial ramifications. My whole world has been turn upside down and right now I don't know which way is right side up. It is an emotional roller coaster. I just wish that we were both smart enough to work through issues before it got to this point. We were never great communicators although she was better at it than I was. She is very impulsive and controlling and I should have learned to put my foot down. There are other things as well but I don't believe that you just give up on a marriage. I feel you fight through it. I know that our realities are probably different since she wants a D but I am trying to turn this ship around although it seems like it won't happen. Many posters her as well as some family and friends suggest that I let go. My brain says to do that but my heart seems to be in control right now. I don't want to go down without swinging. I feel like if there is anything in this life to fight for it is love. If it doesn't work out then I can hold my head up high knowing I've tried everything I could and given it my best. I really wish this agony would just go away. It physically and mentally hurts and I am just do worn down.
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## TNman (Dec 24, 2012)

So sorry that you are going through this hell Jack. I am in the exact same situation and down the road I want to feel that I left no stone unturned and no avenue unexplored-I want my boys to remember that also. Detachment and 180 seem to be the most successful options but WAWs have built such an emotional stone wall that it seems nothing is going to reach them from us unfortunately. Probably failure of a PA is the best route for the waw to come out of the fog-but that throws a whole new level of difficulty on R and recovery. Detachment and 180 will at least help us heal from a horrible wound inflicted by our wife. But knowing that it is still terribly difficult; I think the best way is to try and give up hope and focus on your self improvement and emotional health. If she sees the light(before it is too late) then great-both will have a lot to sort through but with 2 genuinely trying it can be done no doubt. But I wouldn't count on her seeing the light before everything is destroyed. I think most of them will emerge from the fog one day and mourn their emotional murder of the marriage/family but that won't be any consolation of course. Hang in there man-I and many others are struggling also-prayers for all of us.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

Have you read Divorce Remedy yet? I suggest you go buy it and start reading it right away. I am with you, you have to feel you gave it your all before giving up. People who are not in this type of situation do not understand. A very wise man on this site said to me "do what you have to do to satisfy your conscience". I give the same advice to you. If you don't want to go down without a fight then don't. Read DR, it will help show you what you have to do now.
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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

familyfirst09 said:


> Have you read Divorce Remedy yet? I suggest you go buy it and start reading it right away. I am with you, you have to feel you gave it your all before giving up. People who are not in this type of situation do not understand. A very wise man on this site said to me "do what you have to do to satisfy your conscience". I give the same advice to you. If you don't want to go down without a fight then don't. Read DR, it will help show you what you have to do now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Happy New Year TAMers. It's been a while since I last posted as I've been busy. Wanted to update you as I really need some advice and insight cause I'm a complete mess. 

To catch you up to speed, I spent x-mas eve with my STBXW my son and her family and everyone agreed it was a great time. We spent X mas and New Years with our respective separate with our respective families. We have a mediation appointment for tomorrow night for what I thought was for divorce but now she says she doesn't want to D but rather get a legal separation. I don't want to read too much into that because she is still adamant that she can't live together anymore. She says the romantic love she has for me is dead and she can't force it to come back or force herself to be with me. I own the fact that I was not the most passionate man it romantic man but I still struggle with how someone can just do that. While validating her feelings I firmly let her know that I don't want to S. Its hard communicating with her when we both want different things. I am trying to come across as strong and confident rather than weak and pathetic. All I want to tell her is damn it woman wake up! Can't you see that I love you and that we want the same things. I have been trying to DB as I have read Divorce Remedy but all my STBXW keeps saying is she is done. It's like trying to get through to a brick wall DBing is hard. I know I can't reason with her so I just try to listen and validate. I've stopped pursuing. I just don't know what else to do. I still love her and don't want to break my family up. I can't seem to move on. I am so sad and anxious. I never thought in a million years this would happen to us. 

Is it possible for the WAS to develop those feelings of love again while separated or am I deluding myself?
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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

I have just about the exact same story as you. There is no answer. I suggest you don't make any decisions while you are still in shock and denial. She feels this way out of guilt for what she has done.

She wants legal separation then give it to her. You are gonna have to get your sh** together. See a doctor if you have to. Quit asking her to work things out. Implement the 180. Ask her to move out. Tell her she is not taking the kid either. 

Sorry you here. Not a fun ride and you just got on it.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

TNman said:


> Evidently wives are finding it much easier to move on-the LBH is blocked out of her heart and *not given a chance to repair and reconnect * after he realizes(too late) the WAW has checked out of the marriage emotionally and physically.


Sorry, I disagree. It seems like most WAW have tried and tried and tried only to be ignored and dismissed as "complainers" before she finally decides enough is enough.

I'm not judging anyone, I'm just stating my opinion.
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## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

A two-month old post but I just had to comment. Everyone's sitch is different, but for me, my Ex would probably agree w/ YinPrincess.

However, I would disagree with her big time. Here's the deal, marriage is not easy, it is work. The same is true for love. In the famous book The Road Less Traveled, it was eloquently stated that real love starts when romantic love ends. The honeymoon always ends. Love ends when someone puts their selfish interests ahead of their partner's.

My ex complained from time to time about things that bothered her about me... so did I! She by in large ignored the stuff that drove me nuts about her & so did I. There's a HUGE difference between little things that drive each other crazy and having an affair/ committing adultery! It's no wonder the divorce rate is so high in this country. When spouses wake up one day & decide to just ruin the lives of their spouse and children instead of getting counseling, etc., they deserve the label of WAS.

People like this are in for a lifetime of misery & failed relationships. I am all for listening to your spouse when something is truly bothering them in the relationship. But there is undoubtedly a huge communication failure going on. I would agree that many WAS's would claim the same thing as YinPrincess but there are an equal number of LBS's that would state the D came out of nowhere. Unless there was MC and multiple formal sit-down discussions, I'm not buying that the WAS tried & tried. I'm just stating my opinion as well...


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

It takes two to work. If one refuses or is in denial, they might very well stay that way even long after the relationship has ended...
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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

ExisaWAW said:


> A two-month old post but I just had to comment. Everyone's sitch is different, but for me, my Ex would probably agree w/ YinPrincess.
> 
> However, I would disagree with her big time. Here's the deal, marriage is not easy, it is work. The same is true for love. In the famous book The Road Less Traveled, it was eloquently stated that real love starts when romantic love ends. The honeymoon always ends. Love ends when someone puts their selfish interests ahead of their partner's.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your post. Although everyone's sitch is different, I agree with you in my sitch. If there is something that my wife did not like about me and it was communicated to me in a clear manner, I would reflect on it and try to correct it. I don't feel that her communication was clear and I blame myself for not understanding and trying to clarify things further with her. She even admitted that she may not have communicated things to me in the best way. With that being said, there is no excuse for having an affair and if she was so unhappy with me, I would have been happy to address it with her either through MC or other avenues. Sadly, I was not afforded that option and suspect many other LBS aren't either.
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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I just want to make clear that I absolutely do not approve of or condone infidelity. OP, I am very sorry that you are going through this. If I may ask, why didn't you want to clarify things you didn't understand from your wife? Did you feel her complaints were trivial or insignificant? I often wonder why, (in my situation) I think I can spell things out clearly for my husband and yet he is dismissive, uninterested and disengaged. Sometimes he will tell me he did not understand what I meant - but he NEVER asks any questions to follow-up or gain insight. Further, he never really seems to give my needs the validation they need. I am just a "complainer" I guess. Anyhow, I was just curious. 
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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Jack spade said:


> TNman, StephenG - I can't believe how many of us are in he same boat.


Me too, guys, me too. 

Classic WAW, OM, all the symptoms.

But do you know what - I have stopped beating myself up because I didn't do more. Sure the problems in the marriage were in part (make that in large part) down to me. But she never said "there is something very wrong here, we need to fix it" Oh she probably thinks she did by dropping oblique hints or by talking about A when B was the real issue or by just expecting me to be a mind-reader. And she was the one who decided to walk away without even so much as a discussion. She was the one who decided to go out, set up secret email accounts and find strangers (most of whom were men) to pour her heart out to. That is her decision and she owns that.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

YinPrincess said:


> I often wonder why, (in my situation) I think I can spell things out clearly for my husband and yet he is dismissive, uninterested and disengaged. Sometimes he will tell me he did not understand what I meant - but he NEVER asks any questions to follow-up or gain insight.


I know nothing of your situation, but the more you read around the subject the more you begin to understand and appreciate the differences between the way men and women communicate and understand. 

Forget the actual words or issues and look at the messages. A woman who feels under-loved or undervalued will typically make an issue of something else (e.g. taking out the trash, helping with the kids) on the grounds that "if he really loved me he would do that". What she is trying to do is to draw him closer and get him to show his love. But the "if you really loved me..." assumption remains hidden from the man. Men take things very literally, and he thinks that this is is simply discussing the trash or the kids - he doesn't "get" that this is really a conversation about the way his wife is feeling. 

And it gets worse if the wife puts it in the form of "you never take out the trash or help with the kids". Even if she is more direct about her feelings and says "You never spend any time with me" then he feels under attack and gets defensive. Feeling under attack he distances himself from her, which is the precise opposite of what she is trying to achieve. And if her response to him distancing himself is to try the same thing again, and again, and again then as far as the man is concerned he feels under a constant bombardment of criticism from his wife. His focus is entirely on "where the hell does this all come from, what did I do to deserve it and how do I make it stop?" He has battened down the hatches and gone into full defensive mode - the last thing he is going to do is to start trying to work out how his wife is feeling.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

> *No she is not involved in PA anymore* but I think since she got a taste and once her chemicals got flowing, it put the nail in the coffin for me. According to her it was a short fling and she doesn't even know how it happened. She stopped going to MC with me as she said she is DONE.


The only proof you can ever have of that is if you attended OM's funeral.

"According to her..." = she's lying

"She doesn't know..." = she knows exactly 


Sounds harsh, but that's the reality.


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

YinPrincess - you pose a very interesting question. I'm not sure there is an easy answer. Did I at times feel her complaints were trivial or insignificant. Probably at times yes I did. I couldn't understand why she would lambast me over very mundane things and make me feel incapable of doing things up to her standards. I understand now that it was probably not about those mundane tasks but about more of an underlying issue between us and maybe she was trying to connect with me more. I think there were communication issues and big misunderstandings. My wife had a very hard time after the birth of my son. Seeing her struggling, I tried to do things that I thought would help her like getting up with him three times a night and early in the morning to let her sleep. I tried to do more chores around the house. It seemed no matter what I did she just got more unhappy to the point that I had to walk on eggshells because she would just explode on me and sometimes my son. Anytime, I tried to talk to her it became ugly. After I while I just stopped trying. I thought it was just a phase and we would get through it I became a doormat trying to please her all the while she would reject all my advances of affection such as hand holding and sex. After ILYBNILWY speech I find out she has a huge amount of resentment towards me cause she felt I wasn't meeting her needs which contributed to the affair. I know I am no mr romantic and have a lot of shortcomings but I was doing what I thought a loving husband would do in trying to meet those needs. I have learned alot through out this whole process but I think it is too late. I always loved her with all my heart that why I was shocked when the sh/t hit the fan. From reading the five languages it could i wasn't speaking her primary love language.
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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> I know nothing of your situation, but the more you read around the subject the more you begin to understand and appreciate the differences between the way men and women communicate and understand.
> 
> Forget the actual words or issues and look at the messages. A woman who feels under-loved or undervalued will typically make an issue of something else (e.g. taking out the trash, helping with the kids) on the grounds that "if he really loved me he would do that". What she is trying to do is to draw him closer and get him to show his love. But the "if you really loved me..." assumption remains hidden from the man. Men take things very literally, and he thinks that this is is simply discussing the trash or the kids - he doesn't "get" that this is really a conversation about the way his wife is feeling.
> 
> And it gets worse if the wife puts it in the form of "you never take out the trash or help with the kids". Even if she is more direct about her feelings and says "You never spend any time with me" then he feels under attack and gets defensive. Feeling under attack he distances himself from her, which is the precise opposite of what she is trying to achieve. And if her response to him distancing himself is to try the same thing again, and again, and again then as far as the man is concerned he feels under a constant bombardment of criticism from his wife. His focus is entirely on "where the hell does this all come from, what did I do to deserve it and how do I make it stop?" He has battened down the hatches and gone into full defensive mode - the last thing he is going to do is to start trying to work out how his wife is feeling.


Well said
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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

> orget the actual words or issues and look at the messages. A woman who feels under-loved or undervalued will typically make an issue of something else (e.g. taking out the trash, helping with the kids) on the grounds that "if he really loved me he would do that". What she is trying to do is to draw him closer and get him to show his love. But the "if you really loved me..." assumption remains hidden from the man. Men take things very literally, and he thinks that this is is simply discussing the trash or the kids - he doesn't "get" that this is really a conversation about the way his wife is feeling.


Well, just speaking for myself, I may have done what you described in earlier relationships when I was younger and really just naïve to better methods of communication. However, I, like how you've described men, am usually a very literal person.

Regardless of the words said, I don't think it is very difficult for many people to tell that someone is aggitated or upset by their demeanor... Especially if you know them well - you can "feel" when something is amiss. Again, speaking for myself. (I know not everyone is just like me, lol)!

I can see what you're talking about, though. A woman who cannot articulate the source or reason for her general unhappiness may indeed jump all over you for a seemingly beneign infraction. It may be because she doesn't know how to broach the subject, or may not even know what the subject is... Or worse, she fears that her most vulnerable feelings will be met with denial, trivialization or contempt, so she avoids being direct. Just like a man should not fear being open and honest with a woman, neither should a woman be intimidated by a man. Getting snippy over something stupid just doesn't help anyone.

However, when a man detects this, and senses that the real issue is not forthcoming, he has two choices: Avoid. Run like the wind. Duck for cover OR he can simply and *lovingly* acknowledge that he notices she's upset. 

It's really NOT HARD, guys. (Promise). You simply put your arms around her and hug her... Kiss her on the forehead and say something corny like, "It seems like you need a hug. Do you want to talk?" (I know, you don't want to talk... But give it a chance). NO MATTER WHAT SHE SAYS, whether you agree or not, just acknowledge and validate her feelings. Don't explain, excuse, deny anything. And DON'T apologize for how SHE feels. It can be perceived as blowing her off.



> Feeling under attack he distances himself from her, which is the precise opposite of what she is trying to achieve. And if her response to him distancing himself is to try the same thing again, and again, and again then as far as the man is concerned he feels under a constant bombardment of criticism from his wife.


I can relate to and understand the feeling of being attacked. No one likes that. We'd all like to run from it, BUT! It won't go away. As you described, a woman may make repeated attempts to explain and gain his interest and concern. She may not know she's doing it the "right" or "wrong" way... She's just trying to get your attention. As much as you'd like to escape, would it be possible for once that you turn and face her? Hear what she has to say? Look her in the eyes with kindness? Provide a loving and supportive venue for her to be safe and protected? Women prize being heard and understood (*even if you don't agree* - you will want to wait until after she's done to mention your perspective and hopefully she returns the same courtesy to you by listening with love and compassion).

Criticisms (in MY opinion) are rarely just critisims. There's usually a reason or message behind them, or as noted above, she may be using them to get your attention because she isn't sure (or even aware) that she needs to approach you and communicate.

I know this all sounds like I am sticking up for the woman and making the man responsible for playing detective and solving her problems. *NO*. I am merely saying pay attention to the cues that she may have been upset or bothered and be OPEN to helping her figure out what that is. I'm not saying let her bash you, or take the next 10 hours to let her nit-pick each one of your flaws.

Your goal isn't to solve the problem! It's to let her talk about it in a way that makes her feel safe and important. (Easy)!

Well. That was more wordy then I had intended, but I hope the general idea is understood. All of this is just MY OPINION. Not everyone will agree, but if you are present with her and sincerely interested it will be A LOT easier than just running away and hoping she mysteriously cheers up... It's worth a try, right?
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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

> Did I at times feel her complaints were trivial or insignificant. Probably at times yes I did. I couldn't understand why she would lambast me over very mundane things and make me feel incapable of doing things up to her standards.


This is probably miscommunication. Perhaps the content of what she was expressing was trivial, but her feelings behind it were not. For example, a simple thing like not taking out the trash could be translated into her feeling unheard, unimportant or dismissed. You're thinking "trash". She may be thinking "he ignored me/doesn't pay attention" or even "I'm unimportant" (I know - extreme, I'm just trying to provide an example off the top of my head).

So yeah, you don't think it's that big a deal and she's thinking her "needs" are of no concern to you. Two very different things.

That's why it's important to "listen". I can't really explain the "not doing things to her standards" bit, until I have an example or a little more clarity by what you mean...



> I tried to do things that I thought would help her like getting up with him three times a night and early in the morning to let her sleep. I tried to do more chores around the house. It seemed no matter what I did she just got more unhappy


Hmm. She might have interpreted this as you "avoiding" her or having the time and energy for everything BUT her. She may have just wanted you to spend some time cuddling and catching up with her. Sometimes (and I know this from personal experience), when a man busies himself with chores (or hobbies) trying to be productive and stay out of the way, she might see this as "laundry is more important" "football is more important" "I must not be very important". Might sound dumb but it's true. I had a major problem taking everything personally. (Still do). This is just a guess, though. There could be other issues I am not aware of or haven't considered...



> Anytime, I tried to talk to her it became ugly. After I while I just stopped trying.


Well, how did you try talking to her? Did you say, "Hey! What the heck crawled up your butt?" Or, did you express love and concern, "I can see that you are upset... Let's go cuddle on the sofa and talk about it..." (I know, corny).

If she said she felt ignored/unimportant for example, did you listen and try to understand? "I guess I have been a little busy lately... I can see how you felt ignored..." Or did you say, "I've been busy working and washing the dishes! I try to be nice and help out so you can lay around and all you do is b*tch!" Well, I am sure you can see which attitude probably generated the best results... :lol:



> but I was doing what I thought a loving husband would do in trying to meet those needs.


This is the saddest and most unfortunate of all. You were doing what you thought was best... She obviously felt a little differently about that. No, you might not have been perfect, but she had no right to go out and involve herself in a affair. I hope that things work out for the best, whether with her or without, but either way... Make the best of a sad experience. Learn from it and use it to grow and evolve as an individual. That way... Not all was in vain.

I hope some of my ideas are helpful, at least as a starting point. I'm no psychologist. And I AM a woman eek but this is just a stab I'm taking. Could be way off-base, but then I don't have all the information that you and she have...

Best of luck to you... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

How To Fair Warning a Husband That Doesn’t Listen (Before Things Are Too Late To Fix) | Married Man Sex Life


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

staystrong said:


> How To Fair Warning a Husband That Doesn’t Listen (Before Things Are Too Late To Fix) | Married Man Sex Life


Hmm... Interesting. Hamsters. LoL!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

Been a while but wanted to update on my sitch.

I have been continuing to 180 but does not seem to be working. My wife is hell bent on divorce and wants it fast. We are now discussing asset distribution. She says she does not think we are compatible. She is re-writing history I think to justify the D. I am panicking and cry all the time (not in front of her) about the breakup of my marriage and my family. I am trying to be strong, cool and confident in front of her. I try not to take the bait when she tries to start arguments and not let her push me around anymore. She has absolutley no respect for me now. I think that is because I did not go all scorched earth and blow up the A when I found out about it. I regret that. Would that have made a difference? I don't know. I think I was too shell shocked at the time and didn't want to make the wrong move.

She has always been controlling and domineering. Not so much in the begining of our relationship but certainly more as it progressed and seems to have come to a head after the birth of our son. Looking back I see that I have lost my self and become a doormat to her trying to always please her and make her happy. I see now this help to contribute to the situation after reading NMMNG. I always wanted to be around my family becasue that is what made me happy. My self esteem is in the gutter. Shes been verbally abusive saying really nasty things about me and its hurts beyond anything. I try not to let it get to me as I believe the "believe none of what they say and 50% of what they do" mantra. I know I am not as horrible as she makes me out to be and I know I am a great guy. I can't stop blaming myself for letting things get to this point. I constantly think back on things now and say if I only did that differently etc.. My brother thinks that she would be unhappy no matter what I did and that I shouldn't blame my self as I was a good husband and am a good father. Am I dense? Yes. Do I need to be hit over the head sometimes? Yes. I am only human and we all have our shortcomings. I am able to look myself in the mirror and try and work on myself. After coming across a few threads on BPD I have been reading up on that. i don't know if she is or not but she does fit some of the profile. She can also be a bit narcissitic as she expects me to drop whatever it is I am doing to help her with something most of the time. she shows no empathy for what I have been going through. I came home from a short stint in the emergency room and she didn't even ask how I was doing and then proceeded to get mad because her family kept calling to see how I was doing. WTF?

Why can't i let go??? Reason is despite all that she has put me through, I still love her. I feel that she is going through some inner turmoil and that I need to stick by her even though I realize that I can't. She needs to walk that path alone. i hope that she will find her path back to this marriage. I want to work to create a new dynamic in our relationship and keep my family intact. We used to do everything together as a family. Weekend breakfeasts, trips to the park, vacations, even the grocery shopping we all did together. I am incredibly close with her family and they don't understand why she is doing this and don't support it. This is not the same woman that I married. I am grieving the loss of my family. This is my worst nightmare and I can't seem to wake up from it. I wake up every morning to the same bleak prospect that everyday brings us closer to D. 

Sorry for rambling as my thoughts are all scattered. I am devasted by all this and appreciate any thoughts. Feel free to break out the 2x4's.


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

Can anyone give me a slap? I feel like I'm loosing my mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Your wife is following the WAW syndrome to the letter. The 180, or process where you do a 180 from what you were doing is for you - not to get her back. 

It's for you to be able to reconnect with yourself and for you to be able to develop a mindset that you can move on and that you will be okay. I too made mistakes doing my 180 as I hoped she was noticing. Lovingly detach. Take a look at Orpheus's signature line. It helped me turn a corner. 

Now the 180 is automatic for me and I focus on meeting my own needs first. I then meet the kids' needs. Her needs are not mine to meet. She no longer wants to be with me and doesn't ask me to help meet her needs. I don't want to. 

LIke your wife, my wife is a grown woman who is acting on her own accord. Our WW's own their actions, behavior and happiness. Let her go. You control yourself and that's it. You live in the moment. Don't eff it up. Don't waste anymore of your time chasing. Develop you. Today.


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

Thanks helover! I am trying this and I have my up and downs. Right now I'm down. I am paralyzed with fear that my family is breaking up. I feel that my world is crashing around me. I am trying to let go of my wife but I can't seem to. My self confidence is in the crapper after going through this the last year. I have been going to the gym and between that and not being able to eat I have gotten pretty cut. I have been trying to go and meet up with friends more. Despite all these efforts I can't seem to get my mojo back. My wife has been very callous and nasty and I know I don't deserve to be treated like that. She says she has alot of anger and resentment towards me and doesn't see any hope. I know unless I can change her feelings towards me I am done. The question is how do you do this will not chasing and just acting as if. I fear if I don't show her how much I care then she will think I haven't changed at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

Let's get real for a moment. When there is no real abuse, any scumbag human being that promises to be faithful for life and then starts spreading their legs for someone else or putting their **** where it does not belongs should be punished with extreme prejudice. 

I am lucky enough to not have any kids involved but if I met one of these WS that had an EA I would f-ing spit on them (having kids involved is exponentially worse, I know cause my father decided to f his secretary while he was still married). 

I don't know if my WAW had an affair and I don't care, I made a promise, I kept my promise and I am holding my head high. I loved my wife and gave my life to her and she was weak. Screw these weak emotionally confused losers. Now they can live the rest of their lives as the FAILURES they are, weak cold mean FAILURES plain and simple.

F the failures and hold your heads high promise keepers you will be happy again I am sure of that, We will be happy again despite choosing losers to foolishly marry.


F-YOU WAW, GOOD F-ING BYE!

That felt great,
Stretch


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Jack spade said:


> Thanks helover! I am trying this and I have my up and downs. Right now I'm down. I am paralyzed with fear that my family is breaking up. I feel that my world is crashing around me. I am trying to let go of my wife but I can't seem to. My self confidence is in the crapper after going through this the last year. I have been going to the gym and between that and not being able to eat I have gotten pretty cut. I have been trying to go and meet up with friends more. Despite all these efforts I can't seem to get my mojo back. My wife has been very callous and nasty and I know I don't deserve to be treated like that. She says she has alot of anger and resentment towards me and doesn't see any hope. I know unless I can change her feelings towards me I am done. The question is how do you do this will not chasing and just acting as if. I fear if I don't show her how much I care then she will think I haven't changed at all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let me tell you that I understand completely what you're going through. A lot of us here have very similar stories. You will have more ups and downs. I do, but I've let go of my wife and my life has gotten better. One of your worst fears has happened already. Your wife said she's done. She's told you. YOU CANNOT CHANGE THE WAY SHE FEELS TOWARDS YOU. I'm not yelling. I just want to emphasize this is a big key to how you're going to recover. You've already told her and showed her you care. She doesn't care. Accept that. You don't deserve to be treated like this, so don't accept that. A big key I learned here at TAM is that you can't nice someone out of what they are doing. She can be callous and nasty to someone else. What a prize. I suggest you read No More Mister Nice Guy by Robert Glover and do your breaking free exercises. He has a forum support too. 

It's very liberating to understand how much you don't control other than yourself. I'm reading your above post again and it's all about how you're trying to keep this together. You're the only one and the odds are against you. STOP chasing your wife, dude. Go dark today. Go NC unless it's for your kids. Your confidence may be low, but she doesn't own you or your confidence. Don't let this breakup be your defining moment in life. 

Take care of your needs first. You may not be used to doing that. Take care of your kids needs. They need a strong dad. Come here and post and read. 

You're afraid. Feel you fear - feel your emotions. Let them pass. Think things through. Do not let your fear own/control you. The only way through this is to get through this.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Jack,

I'll bet it's amazing to see the energy that she has for tearing things apart when she expended almost none to fix them.


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

Conrad - very true. At first she was open to MC. We went three times after which she said she was done. Now she is all about how to settle our affairs for D. I've never seen here on the Internet more. Doubt she would have spent that much time researching reconciliation. She's in a dense fog and she can only see greener grass on the other side.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Jack, she was miserable with you... Allow her to be miserable by herself or someone else.

Its out of your control. Let her realize this on her own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Jack spade said:


> Conrad - very true. At first she was open to MC. We went three times after which she said she was done. Now she is all about how to settle our affairs for D. I've never seen here on the Internet more. Doubt she would have spent that much time researching reconciliation. She's in a dense fog and she can only see greener grass on the other side.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This may be small comfort, but her behavior has everything to do with her and very little to do with you.

She doesn't love herself at all and doesn't believe she deserves good things.

Tearing down feels "emotionally right" to her.

Have you ever told us about her childhood?


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Hello Jack, Many of us have gone through the exact same thing but there is an answer. STOP working with your emotions! START using the facts of the case. She is going to lie to you no matter what. She is not the same woman you married. Kick her to the curb now!

You are going to have to fight this battle with a clear head, that person is not your friend, she is your life long enemy and you must treat her as such. She think's of you the same way, but she will smile at you so she can get close to knife you. (In a manner of speaking of course!) Stop being so nice!


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

I know I have no control over the situation. I need to keep focusing on myself and my son. Like I said, generally I've been doing better but been down since y'day. 

She and my son are going to Mexico next week for my SIL's wedding. She told me that she doesn't want me to go. I don't want to be there if she doesn't want me there. It bothers me that they will all be down there while I'm left behind. We have alot of good memories from Mexico. We used to take family vacations there and we were even married there. 

Her childhood was not the easiest. She came to this country when she was ten. She was put in school and couldn't speak a lick of English. After returning home from college her parents made her get her own apartment so she has some abandonment issues. She is extremely driven and works way to hard. She even admits herself that she doesn't allow herself to appreciate anything. She also make it hard for people to pierce her hard shell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

Having a real bad day today. I thought I was doing good detaching and looking to get on with my life till yesterday 

Short backstory - my wife and soon went away on vacation with her family and came back. The next day we had a party at our house for our son. After the party, I was cleaning up. My wife blew a casket when I got salsa on the garbage can when throwing it out. She also got mad that I threw out the fancy pretzels because she apparently she wanted them. One last thing was she was pissed because I put my son's bathing suit in the dryer (which I guess is a big no no). After all these things she says that she was miserable on the vacation and was having second thoughts about going through with the divorce, but after seeing these things that she did she is going full speed ahead with it. 

That really screwed with me because I feel like I screwed up even though I know they are not that significant in the grand scheme of things. But if she was having second thoughts and I did something to change her mind I am beating me self up over it. I am so sick over this. I didn't sleep a wink all night and I can barely manage to eat any food. I thought I was going to have a breakdown this morning. Guess I'm not doing as good as I thought. 

We have mediation tonight to draw up the papers. I am so sad.... I hate these discussions talking about settlements.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Jack spade said:


> Having a real bad day today. I thought I was doing good detaching and looking to get on with my life till yesterday
> 
> Short backstory - my wife and soon went away on vacation with her family and came back. The next day we had a party at our house for our son. After the party, I was cleaning up. My wife blew a casket when I got salsa on the garbage can when throwing it out. She also got mad that I threw out the fancy pretzels because she apparently she wanted them. One last thing was she was pissed because I put my son's bathing suit in the dryer (which I guess is a big no no). After all these things she says that she was miserable on the vacation and was having second thoughts about going through with the divorce, but after seeing these things that she did she is going full speed ahead with it.
> 
> ...


Give yourself some time, then come back and read this and realize how ridiculous it sounds.

She was considering reconciliation but now she's not because you spilled some salsa and threw away her pretzels? Come on man. Not saying you should have laughed in her face (well, maybe), but you have to realize how crazy that is.

It also fits the WAW script. At some point after leaving, they will tell you that they were "reconsidering" until you committed "insert offense" that made them stick to their guns. Look through other threads here and you'll find this scenario in the vast majority of them. This is just more blame-shifting - lets them validate their decision to themselves and to others. She's guilt tripping you right now over really silly things to make herself feel better about what she's doing. Don't buy in.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Anthony DeMello:

"The problem is rarely where we think it is"

(And, it's not with spilled salsa)


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

I know it is ridiculous and I know it is just more blame shifting but I am still letting it get to me. I feel like no matter what I do I can't win. Of I do x it is wrong. If I do nothing it's wrong. I know I need to stop concentrating on my wife and I have for the most part. It's just that I'm hung up in this. 

Conrad - I know you have mentioned DeMello in other posts. I have it on phone and will be diving into it soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

She's playing with your mind. Mind games.

You have to detach. Be indifferent. Get angry. Fight back. Dont put up with her behavior.


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

I am feeling better today as I was able to sleep last night. I always get more worked up and become an emotional mess when I don't sleep. Last nights mediation appt got rescheduled to next week as the lawyer ran way over on the appointment before us so we had to leave to get home to our son. 

I have stopped wearing my ring which is a big deal for me. Way I see it I am not in a committed relationship anymore not by my own doing. I probably should have taken it off alot earlier. Today I'm having mixed feelings of keep fighting for my marriage and telling my wife to F off. She has basically put me through he'll for the last three years. Ahh yes the roller coaster continues. 

I went golfing this weekend for the first time in ages. Even though I still totally suck it was really good to get out there. Need to do more if it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Jack,

Live your life.

Unapologetically.

Without seeking approval.

With zest.


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

So I just had a short conversation with STBXW and mentioned to her that I am going out tomorrow after work for drinks. Didn't give her alot of details trying to be intentionally vague just said o am going with work people. She said that she knows me well and knows when I am lying insinuating that I am meeting up with someone. I just repeated that I am going out with work friends. She said that she doesn't care either way.

After I hung up it really started to bother me that she wouldn't care even if I was seeing someone else. I know I shouldn't care but it is really bothering me. Why do I let it get to me? For her not to even show the slightest concern about it really hurts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

Oh she cares, don't let her fool you. If she didn't she wouldn't have said she didn't care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

Thanks ff09. When she came home from vacation this past weekend, the first thing she asked me when I was alone was if I was seeing someone. This was because I told her that I went back to my hometown and spent one night at my dads. She seemed skeptical and said the house spent look like its been touched since she left. I know I can't take her words at face value but I would just love to see it bother her although I know I shouldn't care as part of detaching. Argh. I hate getting sucked into these things trying to analyze her. I ve been doing better at it but things like this get to me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Stretch said:


> Let's get real for a moment. When there is no real abuse, any scumbag human being that promises to be faithful for life and then starts spreading their legs for someone else or putting their **** where it does not belongs should be punished with extreme prejudice.
> 
> I am lucky enough to not have any kids involved but if I met one of these WS that had an EA I would f-ing spit on them (having kids involved is exponentially worse, I know cause my father decided to f his secretary while he was still married).
> 
> ...


My STBXH to a T. He throught it was ok to have multiple EA's during our marriage while I stuck by him, oblivious to his indescrections. Then he found it ok to start banging any w(*re that would open her legs for him, shanks that they were. Yes we were still married....

Well I have now waved him goodbye, filed 2.5 wks ago. He is depressed apparently. Now he has lost his family AND he got one of the skanks pregnant. He's going to be involved in a lot of child support suits this year. His bad choices have cost him EVERYTHING he has and will ever have. He'll be 62 yo when he finishes paying child support.

He thought it was all so funny when he was out banging other women. He acted like he was such a hot stud and I was some loser because I "couldn't find someone else". 

He's not laughing now believe me. His azz is seriously fried. 

So since I'm being awarded a huge amount of child and spousal support and no doubt the skank will be launching her own child support suit, he's going to have next to nothing to live on. All his years of study. post-grad, hard work and promotions and its all going to mean nothing.

I also am proud I am exiting this marriage with my head held high. I made a serious promise when I said those wedding vows and I meant it. I never lied, cheated, or had friendsships with other men. I was committed to my marriage. I will not even consider dating until my divorce is final and a good amount of time has elapsed where I am in a good frame of mind to have a good relationship with someone else.

Screw them... I may feel like its hard right now but I know my life will be happier than his.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

brokenbythis said:


> My STBXH to a T. He throught it was ok to have multiple EA's during our marriage while I stuck by him, oblivious to his indescrections. Then he found it ok to start banging any w(*re that would open her legs for him, shanks that they were. Yes we were still married....
> 
> Well I have now waved him goodbye, filed 2.5 wks ago. He is depressed apparently. Now he has lost his family AND he got one of the skanks pregnant. He's going to be involved in a lot of child support suits this year. His bad choices have cost him EVERYTHING he has and will ever have. He'll be 62 yo when he finishes paying child support.
> 
> ...


AMEN!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

Jack spade said:


> Thanks ff09. When she came home from vacation this past weekend, the first thing she asked me when I was alone was if I was seeing someone. This was because I told her that I went back to my hometown and spent one night at my dads. She seemed skeptical and said the house spent look like its been touched since she left. I know I can't take her words at face value but I would just love to see it bother her although I know I shouldn't care as part of detaching. Argh. I hate getting sucked into these things trying to analyze her. I ve been doing better at it but things like this get to me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It gets easier every day. Are you doing any reading? Its been 8 months for me and I am finally starting to feel like I'm detaching emotionally. 15 years and a family and a child. His loss, I still have my dignity intact.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

familyfirst09 said:


> It gets easier every day. Are you doing any reading? Its been 8 months for me and I am finally starting to feel like I'm detaching emotionally. 15 years and a family and a child. His loss, I still have my dignity intact.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like Mr. DeMello is rattling around in the cage.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

He is...still haven't quite made it all the way through but a lot has stuck with me, probably because I've read so much of it more than once. He shall join me tonight in the bathtub 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

So after a week of doing well I again am a mess today. Didn't sleep all night. Me and the STBXW were talking about our mediation appointment tonight. She said that she is conflicted and wants to separate now instead of D. Then we began talking about how we got here how we drifted apart and how we didn't make enough time for each other. She asked me why would I want to stay with her after she had been deceitful and after how she treated me. She said that she can't see me in an intimate way and right now doesn't have those feelings for me which is no surprise since we've been going through this for almost a year. 

She thinks I have been been emotionless through this whole ordeal. Little does she know how emotional I've been. I just don't show it to her. I breakdown to friends and family but I won't do it in front of her. I try to be a rock in front of her. I know I can't beg, plead or cry in front of her as that would just make me look weaker to her. I have trouble balances letting her know that I want to salvage this without chasing or looking weak. I try to be conservative and try not to convince her of anything . I haven't told her I loved her in months. I'm trying to be secretive. Lately when I go out she said it was shady and she had taken an interest in who I texting with now. 

Everyone says to let go. I thought I was on that path and trying to move on. But then she says something or does something to suck me back in. Guess I'm not doing well detaching. I would go out more but I really just want to be home to spend time with my son. He is the most adorable little boy and I don't get to see him too much during the week because of my work hours. It kills me that once we separate I will not be there to read him a story and put him to bed every night or to get up with him if he wakes up in the middle of the night. My family is the most important thing to me and I see that was part of the problem as I always put my family in front of myself. On paper I had the perfect life. Nice house, beautiful and ambitious wife and a great son. Took vacations with family and friends. In laws love me like the son they never had. Then D day happened even though I knew our marriage had some issues. I just thought we were going through a rocky patch and would get through it. Never thought I would be here on TAM like many others on here. I don't know if my marriage can be saved. I don't know if the separation can help. Initially I did not agree to the thought of separation when she brought it up months ago. I thought that you have to be in close proximity to work on a marriage. The tricky thing is I was the only one in the marriage so it makes no difference. I hope the time apart can help but sadly I don't think it will. You know the old saying out of sight out of mind. I know if you are reading this your are probably saying I am codependent and your right I am but isn't everyone whose marriage codependent to some degree. I mean we all use our spouses to get something. Love, friendship, support, intimacy, sex. I realize there are unhealthy degrees of it since going through this process.

As I have mentioned before my wife has been hurtful and some will say abusive. I know this is because she is scared and hurt. I am not defending her that is just my take on it. She is very complicated and emotional as well as controlling which hasn't help this roller coaster ride. I just still have trouble coming to terms with all this. I take 50 percent of the responsibility for our problems but I don't feel like I deserve all this. Why would you ask why would I want to remain married to that. That's a good question. Maybe I am still holding out hope that the woman I married and had a baby with would return. Maybe that the alien body snatchers would return her back in her old form. Maybe that is a pipe dream and this is how she was all along. I know that we were happy once. Is it wrong of me to think we can have that again in a new and better relationship? These are things I struggle with everyday. Maybe it is just wasted energy on my part as it takes two to tango and right now my wife is in the alley having a cigarette break. I must be insane because I keep hoping that every morning that I wane up I will be out of this nightmare but it is more like that movie "Groundhogs Day" with Bill Murray where I wake up to the same day over and over. Is there hope? I don't know. I know my best bet is to 180 and let go for my emotional sanity but I still hold out for it. I don't want the destruction of my family. I am trying to be the rock for my family. As a man I feel it have to stay and fight for my family even if my wife doesn't and wants to be dirty about it.

Sorry for the rambling. Just some things i need to write out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greeneyedlily (Nov 10, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Jack,
> 
> Live your life.
> 
> ...


Jack Spade, I have to agree with this comment by Conrad after reading your thread, I think you are being manipulated because you love your child. It is making you crazy because you want to keep the peace. I think try to work out some better times for you to see your child, more frequent, and not around the STBXW, and see if your feelings change then. I would suspect they will. hang in there it will be better!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Jack spade said:


> So after a week of doing well I again am a mess today. Didn't sleep all night. Me and the STBXW were talking about our mediation appointment tonight. She said that she is conflicted and wants to separate now instead of D. Then we began talking about how we got here how we drifted apart and how we didn't make enough time for each other. She asked me why would I want to stay with her after she had been deceitful and after how she treated me. She said that she can't see me in an intimate way and right now doesn't have those feelings for me which is no surprise since we've been going through this for almost a year.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Jack,

Be brutally honest with yourself.

Has she "ever" been really into you physically?


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

JS,

How many times are you going to get sucked back in before you detach and let TIME do its work.

It seems to me that your WS is unsure of what she wants and you cannot make that decision for her. But it is a has possibilities and hope.

Try to prioritize working on yourself, address things you think you could have done better for yourself, get some counseling for yourself, reconnect with friends for yourself.

Please stop getting dragged back into her misery. If it is meant to be she will apreciate the new you and at that point YOU will decide what YOU want to do for YOURSELF.

Be strong, you can do it,
Stretch


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

Thanks all for your posts. 

Conrad - yes she was into me physically. She still says that I am good looking but I think the problem is her lack of respect for me. She became very unhappy after we had my son. I tried to be the good husband and try to do everything as to try to make her happy - classic nice guy pleaser. I had her up on a pedestal. I have since taken her off the pedestal since what she has become is ugly inside. 

It's a very weird situation since we are still living in the same house until separation is final. We basically have separate lives but still do some things together as a family.

Stretch - I agree with you 100 percent ad thanks for your encouragement. I am trying not to focus on her anymore. Worrying about her whereabouts etc.. I try to interact as least as possible. It's just hard having your whole world flipped upside down and then trying to find equilibrium. I will get through this. I will be stronger. Hopefully in time I will get to a point that I want nothing to do with her anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

It's a bad sign if a woman loses interest after a baby. While some drop in libido is normal, it usually returns quickly.

The fact that it did not bodes poorly for reconciliation.

It likely means she married you for reasons other than attraction.


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

JS,

Just keep trying. You are doing great. 

Be strong,
Stretch


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

So last night I decided to use the jacuzzi tub that we put in when we bought our house three years ago. It was the first time I used (I know not very manly) but I figured I might as well try it before I move out and never get to try it. Man why didn't I use that before ?

Anyway, I am mad today. I was thinking of how my wife can put me/family through this sh!t. I read alot of stories here on TAM about how people pushed their spouses away with drugs, alcohol, video games and general disinterest. Not to take anything away from anyone else as I know we all have our own issues but I never did any of these. I enjoyed coming home from a long day at work to relax with my family. To give my son baths, read to him and put him to bed. Everyday I would ask my wife how her day was and listen as I was always interested. I told her every night and every morning how much I loved her. I would occasionally stop by Godiva to get her chocolates cause i knew she loved them. i encouraged her to do things she wanted to do. I supported her through issues at work . Was I perfect - hell no! But despite what she says I was still good to her.

Did I ignore certain things that I should have taken care of? Yes such as my sexual dysfunction (PE). Did I let her take the lead in the relationship ? Yes. Maybe I didn't have that insatiable desire for life as she says but I do enjoy it. Maybe I didn't make her feel like a princess like she said but she didn't treat me like a prince either. The thing is I feel that our problems could be solved or lessened if we worked on them together. Sadly, she is done before bringing these issues up to me. She always joked that she wanted more romance. What wife doesn't. If she had been more serious and let me know it was a serious issue I would have done something about it. I own my part in the demise of our relationship, but I didn't know the extent of her feelings and she never communicated them to me in a clear manner. I am sorry I am not a mind reader and can not correlate that her *****ing about me doing something wrong means that I am not meeting her needs. 

I am angry at her for destroying my love for her, the good life that we built together, the sense that my son will come from a broken home. She cannot not enjoy life. She can not appreciate things and is always looking for the next greatest thing. She will never be happy with herself. I hope that she does find someone to make her happy for my sons sake so that she can actually be the loving nurturing mom she needs to be rather than a mom that constantly goes out for drinks or puts work in front of family. I am starting to see just how F'd up in the head my wife is. I knew she had flaws when we were dating but I overlooked them cause I loved her. That's what you do when you love someone right? She thinks that we can be good friends while separated / divorced. I have no intentions with being friends with her. Friends do not treat friends that way she treated me. She can go F herself. I will be friendly and amicable for my sons sake but I will not be there for her as a friend. 

I am fluctuating between the loving feelings I have for her and the disgust I have for her. These conflicting emotions are dueling with each other. I want to reconcile but part if me worries that in the unlikely scenario that we do R that I will have too much resentment built up. Well at this point I shouldn't worry about that because right now there seems to be a snowballs chance in hell if that happening. 

Ah felt good to get that out!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

Look to the future. I am pissed and hurt at the same time a lot. The anger and bitterness are not very productive so I say F You and let it go as fast as I can. Then I go right back to working on me, that's productive. 

Focus on your next place having a hot tub. For me it was a firepit and I will have one before the weather turns cold again.

Work on you,
Stretch


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Jack spade said:


> So last night I decided to use the jacuzzi tub that we put in when we bought our house three years ago. It was the first time I used (I know not very manly) but I figured I might as well try it before I move out and never get to try it. Man why didn't I use that before ?
> 
> Anyway, I am mad today. I was thinking of how my wife can put me/family through this sh!t. I read alot of stories here on TAM about how people pushed their spouses away with drugs, alcohol, video games and general disinterest. Not to take anything away from anyone else as I know we all have our own issues but I never did any of these. I enjoyed coming home from a long day at work to relax with my family. To give my son baths, read to him and put him to bed. Everyday I would ask my wife how her day was and listen as I was always interested. I told her every night and every morning how much I loved her. I would occasionally stop by Godiva to get her chocolates cause i knew she loved them. i encouraged her to do things she wanted to do. I supported her through issues at work . Was I perfect - hell no! But despite what she says I was still good to her.
> 
> ...


Let this be the last time you focus exclusively on her.


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

I am on my way home from work as I type this. Have many mixed emotions as me and STBXW are going to the mediator tonight to sign our separation agreement. I will be moving out on June 1st from our house into a new apartment. I have never lived alone before. I am so angry at my wife fur all this sh!t but have not show her this anger. I have been trying to act happy and "as if". In our last conversations she said she has not seen any changes in me ( I disagree) as I have not been showing to much emotion and talking to her about my feelings. I told her that I didn't feel safe with her as she had not shown me once once if empathy or remorse. I also told her if she wanted to work on the marriage then I would be willing to work on showing her my feelings. I have bit done this as I don't want to portray myself as a week man to her and also my IC advised me not too as she would probably just used it as ammunition against me. I don't know if I am shooting myself in the foot as I do want to reconcile as part of me still loves her or at least loves the woman she used to be before she ripped my heart out and shat over it. Do I keep up the strong front or do I open up to her? I have already expressed multiple times how much she hurt me and I don't want to keep repeating it as I want to let go and moved forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Jack spade said:


> I am on my way home from work as I type this. Have many mixed emotions as me and STBXW are going to the mediator tonight to sign our separation agreement. I will be moving out on June 1st from our house into a new apartment. I have never lived alone before. I am so angry at my wife fur all this sh!t but have not show her this anger. I have been trying to act happy and "as if". In our last conversations she said she has not seen any changes in me ( I disagree) as I have not been showing to much emotion and talking to her about my feelings. I told her that I didn't feel safe with her as she had not shown me once once if empathy or remorse. I also told her if she wanted to work on the marriage then I would be willing to work on showing her my feelings. I have bit done this as I don't want to portray myself as a week man to her and also my IC advised me not too as she would probably just used it as ammunition against me. I don't know if I am shooting myself in the foot as I do want to reconcile as part of me still loves her or at least loves the woman she used to be before she ripped my heart out and shat over it. Do I keep up the strong front or do I open up to her? I have already expressed multiple times how much she hurt me and I don't want to keep repeating it as I want to let go and moved forward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Still focused on her.


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## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

Your right Conrad. I feel I have been doing better generally. There are times when I do focus on her and that is usually when I come here for support. 

I feel good today. I am looking forward to moving to my new apartment to get some peace, keep working on myself and have a blast with my little guy when he is with me. I look forward to doing those things I used to do and to hanging with my friends who have been great in supporting me. 

We signed the separation agreement last night. Funny thing is we got along better probably better than any point in the last two years. I was cracking jokes and was surprisingly light hearted. Afterwards she hugged me and even made a joke that she might let me take her on a date. I said no way she's not my type knocking on her. I'm not reading too much into it as I have no expectations. She will have to demonstrate the she gas made some changes on her own because i dont want to go back to the same marriage. I am actually excited about being on my own and learning more about myself and growing as a person. I will never again let anyone take my [email protected] I control my life and will not hand that control over either.

Anywho - goodnight TAMers. Wishing you all some peace as we all need it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Jack spade said:


> Your right Conrad. I feel I have been doing better generally. There are times when I do focus on her and that is usually when I come here for support.
> 
> I feel good today. I am looking forward to moving to my new apartment to get some peace, keep working on myself and have a blast with my little guy when he is with me. I look forward to doing those things I used to do and to hanging with my friends who have been great in supporting me.
> 
> ...


This sounds much better.

Way to avoid that crumb.

It was deliberate to make sure you were still Plan B.


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