# State of My Union



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

We are separated. Her lease is up at the end of May. We need to provide advance notice in writing 30 days before she moves out.

So far as I can see, the calls and texts to other guys have stopped for about 3 weeks now. We generally get along well when together. But she has shown little interest lately in spending time together.

And I still don’t trust her. Its not there yet. There are so many stories about the last 10 months that just don't add up, but I don't really have a true "smoking gun."

We have had one or two “good” conversations where she seemed sincerely sorry for all the pain she’s caused. But most other times, she seems annoyed if I want to talk about things that still make no sense.

Lately she has been going out one or two nights each week with an older woman who is going through a divorce. From what she tells me, they typically go out drinking and often stay out until the bars close down.

Weird stuff like this still bothers me - a couple of nights ago she was talking about going out with her “friend”. The next day she told me they didn’t go out, but her friend came over and hung around for a while.

I looked at the phone bill the following day and saw a ton of calls and texts with this friend – and there was only about a one hour gap between midnight and one a.m. when they weren’t calling or texting. So – to me – it just didnt’t match up. It looked like a lie, but I didn't understand why she would be lying.

I call my wife and ask her about this – why calling and texting if you were together? Her story is that her friend was actually out with a guy or at his hotel. That the friend DID stop by briefly and they had a couple of drinks. My wife claims she has been covering for her friend by saying that she’s staying with my wife when she’s really staying with some guy. She didn't want me to say anything accidentally to a common friend of interest.

In general, she seemed angry and annoyed that I asked what I “thought” was a simple question – “you said you were together, but were almost constantly calling and texting.” She says she’s angry because she isn’t getting the credit for no longer calling or texting these guys and she’s tired of me re-hashing the last 10 months.

I wasn’t accusing her of anything – but this looked like another lie. I feel I have every reason to ask about stories that don’t make sense and I’m concerned that she’s annoyed because she’s hiding more than I realize.

So – where do I go from here?


----------



## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

This may be too simple of a question but what does your gut tell you? Clearly you still have some mistrust but deep down do _you_ feel it is well-founded? I can tell you what I think about her actions and I will if you want but I think your gut feeling is more important. 

The lease is up at the end of May, was that a one-year lease? If so a lot of time has passed. I am not up on your whole story so my other question would be whether you want to try and move forward or not. There will be a point where you have to take a leap and start trusting again. No matter what, I don’t think it will be 100% comfortable at first. Your relationship will probably never exactly be the same as those great times you remember. You don’t feel you can do that now and I know you cannot see the future but do you think there will ever be a point that you will be able to take that leap?


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Six month lease.

My gut tells me that "something" is rotten.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I don't think you should go anywhere.

Why exactly is this your problem and not hers?

She was the one that decided she needed to leave. Are you prepared to allow her to simply decide to come home?

Why can't you decide, that you _aren't_ ready for her to come home?

By my reckoning, if you allow her to return home now - things only get worse, not better.

She flat-out is not invested in better for the two of you. She is invested in better for her.

She will return home with the same expectations of accountability that she had while living on her own - that will likely include continuing to deceive you instead of working with you, and late night bar crawls when she feels like it.

You up for that? You up for her coming home and subjecting the kids to even worse circumstances that were in place prior to her moving out - and then the trauma of leaving again?

My input is, you aren't ready. I mean the plural you. Honestly, I don't think the circumstances ever became 'painful' enough for her. Whether the pain is financial, emotional, whatever ...

I mean seriously, she has been out of the house for months, yes? And you are confident that communication with the other men ceased as of ... 3 weeks ago?

Honestly, what is your sense for the state of your relationship? Do you want her to come home? Do you think it wise? Given your posts, I never really got the sense that she is repentant.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I feel like I have NO CLUE as to what is really going on.

Is it normal for a "wife" to stay out with a "friend" at a bar until 3am? I don't think that going to bars or even staying out late are crimes - but I don't like it because I don't trust her. She says I'm being parental. Ok...

And yes - from what I can see, things may have gotten better in the last 3 weeks. At least from what I see on the phone bill. That's "something" - right? Of course I wonder if the conversations haven't just changed venues.

Is she sorry or repentent? She's had moments - few and far between, but there have been moments.

The marriage therapist seems to think that I'm blowing things up in my mind. That my wife's social life isn't what I think it is. That confuses me.

The therapist seems to think what's in the past is gone, and that asking too many questions will only lead to more hurt feelings on both sides. I don't get it.

From a very practical standpoint I find myself wondering just how much more miserable I'd be if she moved home. At least - if she moved home - we'd have more money.

Also being practical - if she were home - I would have a better idea about her social life.

In general, I feel a little bit better when she's around. There IS a reason I married her.

But going forward I see nothing but "pain" for "some time" no matter WHAT we do.

And of course those age-old questions - how much is my fault and maybe I didn't do enough...


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

There should BE no social life for a married woman. 

She should not be doing a SINGLE THING that you could not attend, too, if you so choose.

If she chooses any other route than that, she needs to be gone.

You deserve better than her crumbs or being her convenience.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Apologize if the tone of my posts sounds negative or scolding. It may be the way I am reading things lately.

In the scheme of things NG, my circumstance isn't a whole lot different than yours. 

My saga isn't resolved either. Spouse approached me Sunday, and said, "We really never gave reconciling a real shot did we?"


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

turnera said:


> There should BE no social life for a married woman.


Really?

:scratchhead:

Deejo - no offense taken - tough words to hear, but needed;

With regards to remorse, I find myself wanting more and more to do some of the things she's done, to show her how much it hurts.

In theory she's done little wrong (that I'm actually aware of).

But her total body of work - and her refusal to show any committment to not only me, but our children as well - is what bothers me the most.

As I've said before, I have no smoking gun, just a lot of phone records with several different numbers, and a really bad feeling in my gut.

I could justify divorce - but it sounds like a lousy option. I feel like ALL of my options are lousy. And I BLAME her and am totally pissed off about it.

One last thing - when we are arguing, and the kids pick up on it, they always see me as being angry. The oldest has told me several times that she's mad about how I'm treating her mother. I KNOW I can't explain things to her...but it really hurts to know she thinks that this is somehow my fault.


----------



## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

I kept meaning to go back and read some old posts of yours, but I'll have to go with what I've got here (OK, I'm lazy). 

What am I missing trip 7's? You're separated. There are some old issues that make her current activity of prowling around at bars, looking for men, seem like a side problem. I gather she's had emotional affairs with other men, to the point that you are separated. Looks like it's still going on only she's learning how to be sneakier. And to compensate for past sins, she's whoring at bars all night. And who wants this relationship to continue?

:scratchhead:


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Cody - yes - EAs and some other questionable texting. But no proof of - or reason to believe - anything physical.

She claims I became controlling and overbearing - we couldn't get along - had a bad fight in front of the kids which ultimately led to the separation.

Now - I am familiar with your story - I remember it fairly well. I believe your biggest problem involved your wife going out to bars.

I think the word "whoring" is a bit strong, but maybe I'm fooling myself.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Going to a bar to get drunk and have guys hit on you...seems pretty close to me.

The point is you HAVE no real marriage. You have/had an arrangement wherein she agreed to live with you and give you something, some time, but only on her terms, because she frankly couldn't care less if you were around. 

But you WERE convenient.


----------



## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

What do you think she is doing at the bars until 3:00? Talking about the garden club with her friend and any other gals with similar interests?

You may remember my thread about the clubs being a chance for legitimized infidelity. It's all innocent. It's just a few drinks. Meanwhile, anything goes, and that's in a strong relationship. You'rs ain't that strong. And how would you EVER find out?

I'll tell you what. I've done a little polling. I can GUARANTEE you she is hit on ALL NIGHT while she's out. So she either enjoys shooting down guys or she loves partying with them. There's no in-between. 

OK, I'm over-the-top on this, but everyone else is a little too lenient. Some day people are going to wake up to this one.


----------



## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

Go with your gut. The gut is rarely wrong and if it’s saying something is rotten in the state of Denmark then it is. It may only be the fact that she continues to lie for unknown reasons but, imo, that’s plenty to refuse to move back in together at this junction. 

I get what your counselor is saying to a certain point. You can’t live in the past constantly searching for some clue about what went on. If you haven’t found it six months later you’re not going to thus you have to move forward with the information you do have. Make decisions based off of what you do know. 

I do think that you should look at the positive. It’s great that things seem to have taken a turn for the better over the last three weeks, it really is. But, and this is a big but, they should take a turn for the better for a lot more than three weeks before any permanent decisions are made. If that means signing another six-month lease well, you can always break a lease fairly easily if needed. You cannot easily move her back in and then back out of the house, with the kids and all. I’d tell you not to do it until you’re ready to leap with both feet and she’s ready to show full remorse and be completely open and honest from that point forward.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tell her she can move home if she takes a polygraph first.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I give Turnera the prize here. 

But I would wrap the polygraph up in a package and hope for the best. The packaging is as follows:

I love you and want to reconcile. If we can agree to 4 specific things I will give it my best shot to make you happy:

1. You take a polygraph one time to address any and all questions I have about the past. If the polygraph results show consistent deceit then we part amicably. If you are fully honest in the polygraph but admit to physical activity with other men, we may or may not reconcile. If that is the truth - tell me the truth NOW so the polygraph just confirms it. 

2. We will agree to rules of engagement - no bars until 3 AM. That is just not acceptable to me - if you need to do that you need to be single. No non-swinging husband is ok with that type behavior

3. All phone/email/fbook accounts are totally open in both directions. You can see mine, I can see yours. Until death do us part. 

4. You need to tell me what is missing from our marriage that you are looking for elsewhere. I will do my best to address it. 





turnera said:


> Tell her she can move home if she takes a polygraph first.


----------



## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

I read a couple of your other posts. What the hell is it with these women and their addiction to other men? Sex addicts I understand. Emotional addicts? And these f'in clubs/bars. Free pass for her to get her kicks w/ strange men and/or meet with the ones she already has. When will the world wake-up?

MEM's advice above is spot on. Problem is, even IF she's maicable to 1-3, you'll never be able to accomplish #4. You will NEVER be able to be that strange man she get's the high on meeting/flirting with/hooking up with. 

Sorry man. She needs to renew her lease and you need to get on with your life. Damn.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Well, anger got the best of me tonight. My wife didn't understand why I'd be so upset - why I picked tonight.

I got stupid - out of control at times - said things I wish I shouldn't have said.

But I still think that a few out of control conversations are nothing compared to 10 months of bull****.

I either want to crawl into a hole or punch somebody.

Thanks all!!!


----------



## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm surely not telling you something here you don't already know, but you need to take a deep breath and calm down. You need to be (or at least seem) in control.

Just out of curiosity, what did she say she does at the bars until 3AM? Did that come up? Knowing the answer (not necessarily HER answer), I'm curious as to how she spun that activity as being anything other than her continuing with emotional relationships with other men. Same activity via a different medium.

In everything I've read about your situation, it seems like your wife wants to be single. Maybe you should let her. You should start too.

Lastly, I find it interesting that my wife's "experiment" with the single life also included her getting a little too friendly with a band she saw at one of her bars (from another thread of trip 7's). Thank god that allowed her to see that it had finally gone too far and she stopped.


----------



## WantsHappiness (Jun 17, 2009)

I’m very sorry that you had a rough night. Anger is a completely natural response to the situation as well as a clichéd (but true) rung on the ladder of grief and you need to work through it. Vent it out and get past it which is part of accepting the answers you have and moving forward. Maybe now that you’ve exploded (it sounds like it may have been overdue) you can do that. You can’t possibly see anything clearly until you get past the anger. 

I do hope you're having a better day today


----------

