# looking for "darkness" (just be careful!)



## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Dear All...

i stopped in a few weeks back re: S.I.M. about an issue i was having (am stilling working on it -- will post in a couple weeks after i have gathered a bit more info), anyway, at the time someone suggested something "dark" (like my wife was having an affair or something).

This greatly upset me (obviously) and i was concerned about how i should handle this new fear (there are a hadful of issues in our relationship!).

The poster that tossed out that suggestion commented to me that i should NOT feel guilty about invading my wife's privacy if the intent was to help the marriage and not undermine it (i.e., if it was not with malice intent) [i.e., basically, it was suggested that i should confirm the ABSENCE of "darkness" and put the idea to bed -- or at least push it aside for a little while).

well... i've now gathered a little info that, at first, made me relaly concerned! but, thankfully i was NOT reactionary... and in the end... it was nothing to be concerned about.

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i scanned the phone bill and noticed that ~9/1 she sent a few texts to a strange #...

the following day (and ever since) she gets a txt from this # ~6:30-7:30 am...

WHO THE F is texting my wife every Fing morning?
(note: no other replies from her bakc to the #)

i researched it... turned out to be a # in CA...

as i dug deeper, it seemed to be the tel # to get updates for some highschool swim team in CA...

as i dug into who the coach was... i cross ref that with friends on her FB wall...

well, it looked like she had sent a text to get updates on the standings of the swim team that an old friend (male!) coaches!
!
!

!!
!!!!!

why the F?!?!K does she care about the standings of this HS swim team that is coached by an old friend...

this sent me into a DARK HOLE!!!

VERY DARK!!!

I tried myself to signup for this txt system, but, they needed a full name... i was not comfortable doing that...

I spoke to a close friend and he was like "maybe its just somekind of inspirational morning thing like '...today's the first day of the rest of your life...' kind'a stuff"

i sat on it for a few days... trying to figure out what i should do...

confront her?
confront HIM?

etc...

one morning, i noticed her cell phone out... on... display available...

THE TEXT WAS THERE!!

THE NUMBER WAS THERE!!

i did NOT have to "hack" her phone, etc... to gain the info...
it was just sitting there...

the text?

It was from our son's highschool (with his list of classes for the day)?!?

WHAT?

i called the HS... turns out THEY have a txt alert system...

oddly, they use the SAME SYSTEM (main number!) that her FB friend (coach) uses for his swim team notifiocations); its some kind of clearling house # that handles many HS txt notifications...

-----------
wow... did i dodge a bullet!

imagine if i had flown off the handle? and accused her of some "sinister" with thsi guy!


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moral of the story....

be careful and "reflective" about the "dark" you might be looking for... if you find something that SEEMS to be "dark" you REALLY have to make sure it IS what you THINK it IS... else, you could make matters (in a very delicate situation) orders of magnitude WORSE!

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beyond that txt number (that i thought was "off) i have not found any other txting/calling that seems off... some occasional stuff to co-workers, but, nothing regular enough to make me concerned or curious...

though!

something odd...

Some of you might recall i had taken my wife to an AC weekend where i introduced a few NEW ideas into our love making....

well, that started on a friday night...

on the sat night (~1am; when i was taking a quick shower following being "intimate") she sent 2 texts to female co-workers (it appears as though pics could have been attached)...

a part of me thinks she was bragging to them re: these TOYS i brought into our love making... or was just letting them know what a GREAT TIME she had (thinking positive here)...

not sure if i can ever figure out WHAT those txts were about at 1am (when i was in the shower after i ROCKED HER WORLD! -- or thought i did!); though... i coudl hack the phone... scan through the pics, and see what pics were taken around that time (as i'm certain txts from 2 months back are gone)...

however, if she was sending them to males, YES!! i would DO WHAT I HAD TO to figure it out...

not sure i should (since I KNOW these are tel # of 2 femal co-workers)

anyway...

i'll post back soon in the SIM forum once the dust settles of something i tried...

- hopeful


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Getting into a locked phone is easy. Just call it. You will have to keep to call going but you will be able to do other things in the phone like check texts and pics.

If your looking to spice up sex, be careful doing it with toys. She can use those herself. But if you want some sure fire ideas that will definitely rock her world and make her come back for more using what god put in your mouth. Shoot me a pm and I will give you a link I found. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> Getting into a locked phone is easy. Just call it. You will have to keep to call going but you will be able to do other things in the phone like check texts and pics.
> 
> If your looking to spice up sex, be careful doing it with toys. She can use those herself. But if you want some sure fire ideas that will definitely rock her world and make her come back for more using what god put in your mouth. Shoot me a pm and I will give you a link I found.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_

Your coment re toys is one part of the probs (but not all)

I'll send you a pm!


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## James C (Sep 6, 2013)

Good on you for having the restraint to not say or do anything until the picture was in focus! 







hopeful2112 said:


> Dear All...
> 
> i stopped in a few weeks back re: S.I.M. about an issue i was having (am stilling working on it -- will post in a couple weeks after i have gathered a bit more info), anyway, at the time someone suggested something "dark" (like my wife was having an affair or something).
> 
> ...


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

James C said:


> Good on you for having the restraint to not say or do anything until the picture was in focus!


it was like HOLDING BACK A LOIN WITH a peace of floss!

it was SOOOO difficult... but with everything I have been through with her, I had always wanted and NEEDED to be, if nothing else, "fair" -- and to approach with even the FACTS I THOUGHT I had (cross referenced with FB and the guys name on the net), I simply needed to "chill" and work through it...

am glad that txt from the school came in on that morning when I was in the kitchen...

perfect timing to save me from MY SELF!


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Oh man this would kill any desire I had for a partner if they snooped on me like this. Be wary here because many have been hurt by infidelity and it seems to be the first accusation for marriages that are having problems.
Not everyone cheats, some marriages have issues that have nothing to do with cheating.

Being snooped on would be the end for me, no way could I respect a man that was so insecure.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> *If your looking to spice up sex, be careful doing it with toys. She can use those herself. *But if you want some sure fire ideas that will definitely rock her world and make her come back for more using what god put in your mouth. Shoot me a pm and I will give you a link I found.


Oh good grief. Here on TAM men are always posting how important masturbation and porn are to all men. They tell us that a wife has no business being concerned if her husband watches porn and/or masturbates.

So what's the big deal if a woman wants to masturbate and even use those toys once in a while?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

hopeful2112 said:


> it was like HOLDING BACK A LOIN WITH a peace of floss!
> 
> it was SOOOO difficult... but with everything I have been through with her, I had always wanted and NEEDED to be, if nothing else, "fair" -- and to approach with even the FACTS I THOUGHT I had (cross referenced with FB and the guys name on the net), I simply needed to "chill" and work through it...
> 
> ...


This is why we tell people to not react and confront on the first thing they find.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Oh good grief. Here on TAM men are always posting how important masturbation and porn are to all men. They tell us that a wife has no business being concerned if her husband watches porn and/or masturbates.
> 
> So what's the big deal if a woman wants to masturbate and even use those toys once in a while?


Alright. Maybe I need to word my point better. What I ment was that if there are problems in the marriage causing her to not be all in sexually, trying to get there with toys might not be the best idea in my opinion because she can attain the same feelings with no need for you. In that instance i beleive the man should up his game in the bedroom. Introducing toys into a healthy sexual relationship if fine in my opinion. 

The few women I knew that masterbated did so because they did not want to have sex with their partners or vice versa.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> Alright. Maybe I need to word my point better. What I ment was that if there are problems in the marriage causing her to not be all in sexually, trying to get there with toys might not be the best idea in my opinion because she can attain the same feelings with no need for you. In that instance i beleive the man should up his game in the bedroom. Introducing toys into a healthy sexual relationship if fine in my opinion.


Oh so only women who are in a marriage where the women is 'all in sexually" deserves to have sex toys. Now I understand. :scratchhead:



Rayloveshiswife said:


> The few women I knew that masterbated did so because they did not want to have sex with their partners or vice versa.


Most women masturbate. Most women do not do it to avoid sex or because their spouse does not want sex with them.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> Alright. Maybe I need to word my point better. What I ment was that if there are problems in the marriage causing her to not be all in sexually, trying to get there with toys might not be the best idea in my opinion because she can attain the same feelings with no need for you. In that instance i beleive the man should up his game in the bedroom. Introducing toys into a healthy sexual relationship if fine in my opinion.
> 
> *The few women I knew that masterbated did so because they did not want to have sex with their partners or vice versa.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why do men think they have the monopoly on masturbation? Guessing you only have a very small sample size of women to base your comment on.

It may surprise you that masturbation is a pretty normal thing for men and women and that women do it because they like to do it, regardless of the state of their sex life with another person.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

And how exactly does Rayloveshiswife's opinion on women and masturbation, skewed as it is , equate ALL MEN feeling they have 
"_ the monopoly on masturbation "_ ?
I think Ray just gave his opinion on behalf of himself in his situation.

Yes?
He never said he speaks for all men, nor can he.


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Holland said:


> Oh man this would kill any desire I had for a partner if they snooped on me like this. Be wary here because many have been hurt by infidelity and it seems to be the first accusation for marriages that are having problems.
> Not everyone cheats, some marriages have issues that have nothing to do with cheating.
> 
> Being snooped on would be the end for me, no way could I respect a man that was so insecure.


Yes, I DO understand your concerns/cautions. Its too long of a story for here, but, me and the mrs are claiming out of a VERY DEEP HOLE (dug due to her actions regarding finances, and my inability to see what was going on -- the signs were there, looking back, I just did not see them or, I guess, want to see them, or try to see them --). She had down some very unethical, unfair, unhealthy, etc... things... she had (in me) COMPLETE AND UTTER TRUST... but, she abused that... and, well... the rest is history...

i'm not saying she is a bad person... she did some bad things... was caught in a downward spiral...

had I been more "aware" back then, I KNOW things would not have gotten so bad (as I would have caught things early).

regarding the "insecurity" etc... comments...

it is more of a "trust with verification"* thing (she is exhibiting some behaviors that have linkages BACK to the behaviors she was exhibiting with the finance issues -- not being completely forth coming etc... therapists call it "white knuckling it" (i.e., trying SO HARD not to do the "poor behaviors" and at one point, you simply cannot stop yourself...)

[* i'm aware that that might just be my way to rationalize this approach, checking in on a few things "shopping" -- but, if a spouse who had made bad decisions regarding credit cards puts up resistance about you and they reviewing current credit reports, well, that MIGHT be a red flag that they may NOT be being 100% honest with you -- note: I had asked this the other day, and no... she did not express concern about reviewing the reports... so... in this context, simply being opened to the review is evidence (IMO) that she is not trying to hide anything]


as I mentioned before, at present, I have not uncovered anything that would suggest an affair... and, there is not much more I can do (that I would feel comfortable with -- the next things would be REALLY unfair/unethical)... so, am going to have to let this idea die...

anyway... am sorry this thread took on a life of its own re: masturbation...

but, at least in my situation, the mrs is showing some signs "addictive" behavior (i.e., perhaps doing THAT more than being with me)... however, I am COMPLETELY AWARE that all of these things are tied up together...

if she is sensing that i'm not trusting her, that could make her pull away from me, could make her just want to "go solo"... etc... etc...

its a long road, I get that! I take it one day at a time... doing the best I can with the info I have in front of me to move towards, hopefully, something positive (even though a particular step might be towards the negative).

thanks for your words of caution..


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## James C (Sep 6, 2013)

How do you get the Monopoly on masturbation? Is that a new theme version of the game? 

Seriously, I think most people and medical professionals would agree there is nothing wrong with it as long as it doesn't interfere with intimacy with your partner or negatively effect your life. ( Generally speaking)

Can't we all come together on this ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Hopeful, my H and I went for a sex weekend in AC about a year ago. I don't know how he found this "hotel" but each room was a theme room...the place was designed for sex fantasy. And holy cow did my world get ROCKED that weekend!

I took pics of the bed and the hot tub and sent them to my 2 BFF's. When my H saw me texting them, he was very upset that I revealed to them our weekend of pure debauchery! 

Women share a lot of things with their BFF's, maybe we go too far at times in our sharing. Maybe we shouldn't share and keep that level of privacy in respect to our H's? I think my H felt like he was about to be graded or something. But I explained I was expressing and sharing what a fabulous time I was having and NO I didn't wish they were there. In fact, that what my texts said with the pics. "Having a great time, glad you're not here!"

If your marriage is in trouble, seeking or ruling out external causes such as an affair, can create even more distance. Now that this seed has been planted, you and maybe we all would, nurture it along by investigating to rule it out. Doubt waxes and wanes, distance broadens and lessens, but at the end of the day you still have a marriage in trouble and that's what needs to be worked on.

A wife masturbating is a good thing. Masturbation cannot take the place of a loving connection. Women naturally seek connections. The real question is why the connection between you two seems to look different to you than it does to her?


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Hopeful, my H and I went for a sex weekend in AC about a year ago. I don't know how he found this "hotel" but each room was a theme room...the place was designed for sex fantasy. And holy cow did my world get ROCKED that weekend!
> 
> I took pics of the bed and the hot tub and sent them to my 2 BFF's. When my H saw me texting them, he was very upset that I revealed to them our weekend of pure debauchery!
> 
> ...


Hi... thank you (REALLY!) for those comments... it helps... I partly think that she was (INDEED) expressing GLEE with them (go back and find my previous post if you like in SIM, but I had stumbled upon some toys that she had gotten without me knowing; I used that to our advantage - re: AC weekend. I party think she got these toys under the advice/chit chatting with co-workers... I think it makes some sense for her to say to them.... HOLY CRAP MY HUSBAND GOT SOME THINGS TOO... AND MAND WAS IT GREAT!! she had not "filled me in" on her own purchases... so, at present, she prob thinks it serendipitous
that I bought some too... or, she knows I KNOW and is just not bringing it up).

we are in a delicate place and I WILL let her know that I know... I just need to do it in a way that is: loving, caring, non-judgmental... timing is key... and I am first building a foundation (I hope) in the bedroom about how we both short be comfortable with our desires... one step at a time... I think that is the best approach... but, I could be wrong...

it seems to be working thus far...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Holland said:


> Oh man this would kill any desire I had for a partner if they snooped on me like this. Be wary here because many have been hurt by infidelity and it seems to be the first accusation for marriages that are having problems.
> Not everyone cheats, some marriages have issues that have nothing to do with cheating.
> 
> Being snooped on would be the end for me, no way could I respect a man that was so insecure.


Even if you were acting in an inappropriate way for a marriage?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

hopeful2112 said:


> Hi... thank you (REALLY!) for those comments... it helps... I partly think that she was (INDEED) expressing GLEE with them (go back and find my previous post if you like in SIM, but I had stumbled upon some toys that she had gotten without me knowing; I used that to our advantage - re: AC weekend. I party think she got these toys under the advice/chit chatting with co-workers... I think it makes some sense for her to say to them.... HOLY CRAP MY HUSBAND GOT SOME THINGS TOO... AND MAND WAS IT GREAT!! she had not "filled me in" on her own purchases... so, at present, she prob thinks it serendipitous
> that I bought some too... or, she knows I KNOW and is just not bringing it up).
> 
> we are in a delicate place and I WILL let her know that I know... I just need to do it in a way that is: loving, caring, non-judgmental... timing is key... and I am first building a foundation (I hope) in the bedroom about how we both short be comfortable with our desires... one step at a time... I think that is the best approach... but, I could be wrong...
> ...


Ah yes, I remember you now. You also posted in my thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/118458-just-take-me.html

Well it sounds like your plans are slowly coming to fruition!

Woohoo! So happy for you!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

turnera said:


> Even if you were acting in an inappropriate way for a marriage?


Yes, even then. I have posted my times about things I have done that, like in this thread, could cause a husband to think there is OM. When reality is that there is no OM, there is just a huge disconnect, a lack of trust to be open and vulnerable, a doubt that bringing my problems or desires to my husband will be dealt with in a safe and healthy way.

So yes, snooping to rule out an affair, when reality is that she feels a lack of emotional trust...could kill it!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

First, if you're having to snoop, it means you don't KNOW if he is cheating, and you don't KNOW if he feels a lack of emotional trust or is just cheating. 

Second, if there IS cheating, and you're busy doing an amazing Plan A to suck him back in to you, all you're doing is fueling his ego and his enjoyment of having two women fighting over him. Why would he stop?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I see absolutely nothing wrong in my wife " snooping " or checking my phone or emails if she feels the need to , and I won't less of her for it.
In fact, in the past she has on many occasions , until she felt satisfied and secure.
I have nothing to hide from her.
My responsibility is to make her feel more secure, hence she has access to all my stuff as well as I have access to hers.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> And how exactly does Rayloveshiswife's opinion on women and masturbation, skewed as it is , equate ALL MEN feeling they have
> "_ the monopoly on masturbation "_ ?
> I think Ray just gave his opinion on behalf of himself in his situation.
> 
> ...


I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself. My opinion is related to thing I have experienced or heard first hand. Maybe women that masterbate do not admit to it. Don't really care. Just never hear them talk about it and most men will say "oh yes, I do that". 

On the snooping thing. I once had an addiction to porn that I have since kicked. My wife trusts that I'm still clean of it but STILL checks the computer history and scans my phone from time to time (I never clear the history in it) to ensure everything is still fine. Along the same lines my wife had a credit card spending problem years ago that she since kicked (when I threatened to leave with the kids), but I still from time to time run her credit report to make sure she has no credit accounts I do not know about. In instances of past problems I see nothing with trust but verify.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeful2112 (Sep 8, 2013)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself. My opinion is related to thing I have experienced or heard first hand. Maybe women that masterbate do not admit to it. Don't really care. Just never hear them talk about it and most men will say "oh yes, I do that".
> 
> On the snooping thing. I once had an addiction to porn that I have since kicked. My wife trusts that I'm still clean of it but STILL checks the computer history and scans my phone from time to time (I never clear the history in it) to ensure everything is still fine. Along the same lines my wife had a credit card spending problem years ago that she since kicked (when I threatened to leave with the kids), but I still from time to time run her credit report to make sure she has no credit accounts I do not know about. In instances of past problems I see nothing with trust but verify.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


you and I are kindred spirits!

(from the wife credit card issue).

it has only been ~1.5 years since I found out... not NEARLY enough time to truly say "...we're good... she has BROKEN FREE from those habits..."

so...

yes, if I sense something is not right... I think I HAVE TO (for the sake of the marriage) dig a little...

years BACK I felt "...hey, this makes no sense..." she would say "blah... blah..." i'd take her at her word...

and then... x years later... and Z thousands of dollars later we are close to bankruptcy (not there... but... oh so close!)

so...

yes... at this point I am at the "trust with verification" stage...

until there is a CLEAR track record of nothing "a miss"
(and even after that... an occasional "spot check" would be healthy for us both -- giving me security... and, well, helping to keep her "honest" and on a "proper path")


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> The few women I knew that masterbated did so because they did not want to have sex with their partners or vice versa.





Rayloveshiswife said:


> My opinion is related to thing I have experienced or heard first hand. Maybe women that masterbate do not admit to it. Don't really care. Just never hear them talk about it and most men will say "oh yes, I do that".


Generally, it’s not acceptable for a married person to discuss their sex life with a person of the opposite sex. Most women would never discuss this with a man who they are not in an intimate relationship with.


As for men saying “oh yes, I do that”, I can count on one hand all the men in my 64 years who have said something similar to that in my real life. And they were all intimate partners.


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

OP, This has also been something on my mind lately, and I'm very glad you posted this thread. In fact, I wrote a long post and then decided to not post, when I saw this thread of yours. 

My thought was that if you go looking for something, you will find it. And so many times, we or others tend to jump straight to infidelity when someone brings up certain things in their relationships. I am that way and I'm trying to change this way of thinking. If our gut is even right 99% of the time, it is still wrong 1%. Let's be honest, we are probably all not the Nostradomeus we think we are, it is much more likely our gut is off a lot more than 1% of the time. 

It's not that I think it's unwise to trust your instincts, but I hear so often "trust your gut, it's ALWAYS right". Well, in my case I'm starting to realize that my gut is probably clouded by past betrayal, insecurity, strong emotion, current state of mind,, and a whole bucket of other things. And it just might be keeping me from the clarity I need sometimes.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Another thing that helps is remembering that the other person has a point of view, too. He or she is going through his or her OWN set of feelings, disappointment, resentment, whatever. Reaching out to learn THAT can often make a big difference.


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

turnera said:


> Another thing that helps is remembering that the other person has a point of view, too. He or she is going through his or her OWN set of feelings, disappointment, resentment, whatever. Reaching out to learn THAT can often make a big difference.


True. Too often, once any little thing causes me to think "cheating", I automatically adopt a me vs him mentality. And I no longer think in any other direction but towards infidelity. Doesn't mean it might not be that, but once a mind is on that track it's like a horse that can't be caught again. 

Like OP said, it's like you are then often stuck trying to prove a negative. If you don't find very obvious evidence, then you feel tricked. Also, you end up trying to assure yourself with proof they did not cheat. This is a very crazy making spiral. Cheating can be proven, but not cheating can't be proven! It's too easy to say "well it's not that they didn't cheat, it's that they are sneaky". 


I get what the OP is saying. Really hit home for me today.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

hopeful2112 said:


> you and I are kindred spirits!
> 
> (from the wife credit card issue).
> 
> ...


What my wife went through wasn't nearly as bad as yours. Two times combined probably under 10k (that was a furtune when we were first married). She had numerous department store cards she got with her parents address so I would never see the bills. Found it the first time when I tried to buy a motorcycle and got turned down for the loan because she was late on payments. The second time I found out because I was at her parents house out front and the mailman handed me the mail. Her visa bill was right on top. It was the o my time in our 20+ years I have ever told her I would divorce her. We have been good ever since. Now I cannot get her to spend money on anything. 

I am in spot check mode with my wife now. It's happened a long time ago. I check our credit report files every few months, I just look a little longer at hers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oviid (Sep 27, 2013)

Man I wish I had your restraint. A few years ago, when I was feeling particularly vulnerable, I questioned my wife about those types of things. When I get that "gut feeling" it's really hard for me to practice restraint. Well I decided to put a key logger on our PC. I didn't find anything at all BUT one night I was at work and my wife called me. She said the when she logged onto the computer the damn thing popped up! She was shocked, hurt and pissed off like an angry hornet. I back peddled, said it was for the kids, made excuses etc. but it was just done. I felt like a fool and I know I crossed a line that I could never go back over. What did I do? I bought her a laptop as a way to give her back some privacy. 

For anyone considering this I'm not saying don't do it but I am saying you better be ready for major damage control when and if they find out. And remember too the damage may not be reversible.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sedona said:


> My thought was that if you go looking for something, you will find it.


If there is nothing to find, it will not be found. If the spouse is not cheating, would a person snooping find cheating?



sedona said:


> It's not that I think it's unwise to trust your instincts, but I hear so often "trust your gut, it's ALWAYS right". Well, in my case I'm starting to realize that my gut is probably clouded by past betrayal, insecurity, strong emotion, current state of mind,, and a whole bucket of other things. And it just might be keeping me from the clarity I need sometimes.


I have read that men's instincts in the area of cheating are wrong about 90% of the time. Women's instincts are right about 90% of the time.

My take on it is that if my spouse feels uneasy about something, let them snoop. Hopefully they will find that there is nothing to worry about and feel more secure.

However that point of view is mitigated in that if the snooping is sometime thing that goes on constantly, year after year. Like he puts a GPS on my car and tracks everywhere I go constantly.. it's a fine line between snooping for solid concerns and stalking.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I used it for my daughter once after she did some questionable things. I monitored for about 3 months and then I removed it.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> And how exactly does Rayloveshiswife's opinion on women and masturbation, skewed as it is , equate ALL MEN feeling they have
> "_ the monopoly on masturbation "_ ?
> I think Ray just gave his opinion on behalf of himself in his situation.
> 
> ...


Thank you CM. I can't stand when people say "All women this" and "All men that".

It drives me nuts because 90% of the time I don't do what "All men do" and my wife doesn't do what "All women do".


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I see absolutely nothing wrong in my wife " snooping " or checking my phone or emails if she feels the need to , and I won't less of her for it.
> In fact, in the past she has on many occasions , until she felt satisfied and secure.
> I have nothing to hide from her.
> My responsibility is to make her feel more secure, hence she has access to all my stuff as well as I have access to hers.


Exactly. If I "caught" my wife snooping in my phone, my first reaction wouldn't be.

"OMG you've invaded my privacy and I feel such a disconnect."

It would be to find out why she feels insecure in our marriage and work on fixing it, whether it's a me issue or a her issue, ultimately it becomes and us issue that we need to take care of.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

turnera said:


> Even if you were acting in an inappropriate way for a marriage?


Good question, can only answer it from a personal POV in that I have never done anything that is inappropriate in a marriage or LTR. I do find people that snoop to be insecure, instead of simply asking a question they get all clandestine and snoop.

To me it is a huge sign of weakness and if I were ever on the receiving end I would lose all respect for him. If our relationship were ever that bad that I felt the need to do it then we would be doomed anyway.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Holland said:


> Good question, can only answer it from a personal POV in that I have never done anything that is inappropriate in a marriage or LTR. I do find people that snoop to be insecure, instead of *simply asking a question* they get all clandestine and snoop.


 :rofl:

Holland, you've been around here long enough that a WS will almost NEVER say 'why, yes, I HAVE been cheating. How gracious of you to ask me!'


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I have never cheated or knowingly been cheated on turnera so I don't make my decisions or base opinions on experiences I've never had. Not so sure what is funny about asking your spouse a question instead of snooping but I much prefer the direct approach.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Holland said:


> I have never cheated or knowingly been cheated on turnera so I don't make my decisions or base opinions on experiences I've never had. Not so sure what is funny about asking your spouse a question instead of snooping but I much prefer the direct approach.


Sadly Holland, most people who cheat will lie if you out right ask them if they are cheating.

Usually the only way a BS finds out about an affair is by mistaken when the WS slips up on their secrecy or by snooping.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I get that Ele but I don't get what is funny about asking questions of your spouse. TBH the relationship would feel doomed anyway to me if it were at a point of snooping from either person.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

The point of marriage is for both partners to have each other's back.
Many affairs start with some sort of unintentional, emotional connection , that one spouse might not even recognize is happening, because of the effect of that new " friendship " on their psychological being.
Life can be stressful at times and it can take a toll on marriages.
We are all just humans.

The appropriate questions can only be asked if information is gathered , and the information points in a certain direction.

Trust but verify.

And even in that case, a spouse who might be totally unaware or in denial , would never admit that they've crossed the line.

We all like to believe we're infallible , until we fall.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Holland said:


> I get that Ele but I don't get what is funny about asking questions of your spouse. TBH the relationship would feel doomed anyway to me if it were at a point of snooping from either person.


I can see how you can think that way. The truth is, however, there IS a script that cheaters use, and it's called a script because cheaters typically undergo a 'change', a mental change, when they start cheating. It's been documented ad nauseum, so much so that it's become common vernacular in the world today because it is SO PREDICTABLE and SO COMMON.

The spouse who starts cheating becomes an alien, a drug addict, whose only goal is to continue to receive the drug (the OM/OW). Once that happens, once the PHYSICAL NEED to keep seeing or contacting OM/OW begins, they no longer consider YOU their mate, their friend, their ally. Suddenly, you are the enemy who can KEEP them from their drug. OF COURSE they will lie to you.

Thus, the only thing ASKING THEM does is to warn them that you are now suspicious and that you may now GET IN THEIR WAY OF THEIR NEXT FIX OF THEIR DRUG.

Have you ever heard of a drug addict reacting with logic when you confront them? Have you ever heard of a drug addict saying, "yeah, you're right, it was fun but I can do without it. I'll just stop. Right now."?

And you may feel that the relationship is 'doomed,' but there is plenty of evidence over the past 30-40 years that getting evidence, confronting, and then exposing the affair when they refuse to give up their drug CAN GET RESULTS. So, you CAN fight the affair and have a decent chance of saving your marriage, instead of just walking away.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Thanks for the post turnera, man i hope never to be at the receiving end of something so awful and feel bad for those that have. (have my own issues to live with though so yeah I understand pain).

TBH though personally I would not fight for a relationship that involved cheating, zero tolerance here I'm afraid.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm the same way, but then I'm not that invested in my marriage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Holland said:


> Thanks for the post turnera, man i hope never to be at the receiving end of something so awful and feel bad for those that have. (have my own issues to live with though so yeah I understand pain).
> 
> TBH though personally I would not fight for a relationship that involved cheating, zero tolerance here I'm afraid.


Most people will not leave a marriage until they are 100% that there is infidelity. And the only way they will find out is if they start to get some suspicion and then gather some evidence.


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