# Fixing a marriage through sex... a success story so far.



## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

I posted this story in a thread where I was asked what I give back to my wife for giving me oral in the morning and sex each evening. After I typed out my story I realized it wasn't what I give back, but what she did to change me without ever telling me her plan.

My reply:

Somewhere along the lines I stopped paying attention to her, although I loved her with all my heart. In return, she quit being enthusiastic or would sigh when I initiated any intimacy. Although she would always go along with it, our intimacy was hollow, as was our relationship. She is a giver so she has never had issues with rejecting me, in fact, to this day she has never rejected me. I am not sure what it is that makes her this way, but it isn't her sex drive. After the first few years (new love -- rabbits) I'd say we went on a 12 year run of only me initiating. This led me to feel unwanted. I'd always look at her if she entered the room, fully dressed, and tell her how beautiful she was. She wouldn't even glance at me if I walked by her naked after a shower. She was so giving if I asked, but it seemed like she purposely stayed away from me emotionally so I wouldn't ask. I can't confirm this, but it was just my suspicions or just my guilty conscience for using her for sex. 

Anyway, things came to a head and we realized we were living different lives. We had kids, but other than them, me and my wife were not even a couple or friends anymore. If we went to the movies, I would hold one kids hand and she would hold the others. We didn't go out alone, at all. It was funny because we always said we were each others best friend, but that was definitely not true anymore. Our friendship was non existent and we were just roommates. I think the key to our change was, we both had love to give and didn't hate each other, although we grew apart. I was never mean or abusive. I always complimented her. I would move towards another room to watch tv, play games or do some hobby, but always stop and say how pretty she was. I would ask her how her day was while I slowly creeped my way out of the room. It was a polite conversation, but like her sex, my attention was hollow. 

For me, I turned away from her because I felt unwanted. I was never going to cheat, I was never going to leave her, but deep inside, I felt unloved. However, I never quit asking for intimacy/sex. I judged her willingness to give me herself as a sign she still sort of loved me, as much as she could, even if it felt empty. I thought that was just the way married life was. Most of the time after sex she would actually purposely wash off and not talk much. She never came out and said it, but it was like she wanted me to know she would have rather done everything else but been with me. Prior to me asking for intimacy, she would start cleaning up a room, fold clothes, and basically procrastinate while I waited for her to come to bed. On the outside, I never broke. I never showed signs that it bugged me, because I knew the next step was an eventual sexless marriage. If I gave in to my guilt and quit asking, it was done. On the inside, I started masturbating more. Even though I knew she would never reject me, I would rather jack off than feel guilty. 

With this resentment, I turned my attention off. I would rather be anywhere in the world except in the room with her talking about her day. She made me feel unwanted and unloved, so I (without ever saying it) stopped wanting to be around her. She used to be my best friend, but now she was just my baby momma/f*ck buddy. 

Small arguments became seperation talk, other people became possible "friends". This was the point when we sat down and reevaluated our relationship. She came up with the concept of our circle. If she was to give me a few minutes out of her day and show me she loved me and I was wanted, I will spend the rest of my day showing her she was indeed my best friend. The morning sessions started, and although we do not orgasm, it is very intimate. Kissing my underarms, licking my nipples, then sliding down and oral. I am the worst morning person, but this has changed that. My day starts off great and I will text her all day because of how good I feel. The oral thing/morning thing really started when she decided she wanted to learn to deep throat. This took a while as she would try a few times in the morning, gag and near throw up, then stop. She would get out of bed and say she is going to learn it no matter what, we'd get up and go to work. Eventually she learned to control her gag reflex and the oral sessions in the morning stayed and got very intense. I am not sure if the self image of her new trick changed her perspective, but I can't stop her from going down on me anymore. From there, there mornings became part of our circle. Like I said, not to orgasm or use her, but just to be intimate with each other. The mornings are not just oral sex anymore, but just intimate time in general. This has now been going on almost a year.

The mornings are the build up for our evenings together.

Some possible factors: She had her tubes tied, had her last child, and turned 35. 

I am not sure if this was totally hormonal or her wanting me back in her life, but she now has a sex drive. She is now initiating 75% of our time together, she txts me during the day saying she can't wait until tonight, and she will describe in detail how different sexual things felt to her from the night before. She also began to anal regularly (although she would give it to me maybe once a year -- hated to do it, now she wants it almost as much as vaginal sex). In return, I spend all of my free time with her and our kids. I no longer disappear into different rooms, I no longer have a 100 other hobbies, in fact, she is my only hobby now. AFTER (not before as some sort of trick to get her to notice me) this began, I began to schedule our off hours for us to clean up the house. For the first time in years, we had a spotless house, which has remained the same. I began to cook out and grill for her (I was a horrible cook). We began to shop together and spend our weekends traveling. She became the most important person in my life again. Maybe it was her idea of the circle, an exact opposite of the 180, that turned me around, but it worked. I feel like men are so easy to keep happy, just show them you want them in every way as much as possible and they will respond accordingly. I did.

In hindsight, she probably is the mastermind behind our marriage turnaround, but I am the one on marriage forums, etc.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Ari,

While I appreciate that this worked for you, I was a bit troubled by this:

" If she was to give me a few minutes out of her day and show me she loved me and I was wanted, I will spend the rest of my day showing her she was indeed my best friend"

Again, maybe it's your wording here (and I certainly can't/won't argue with your success because you're in a much better place than I am now) but shouldn't she also be spaending the rest of her day showing you you're HER best friend too?


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

Toffer said:


> Ari,
> 
> While I appreciate that this worked for you, I was a bit troubled by this:
> 
> ...


yeah, but he gets to $#% in her @$$ whenever he wants, and morning mouth hugs every day. But it also makes his wife very powerful. I imagine that after awhile I would start to feel smothered in an arrangement like this... maybe because I can't fathom what it would be like to have that much sex.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

It is so vital that couples maintain that friendship. I know for a fact that it's the fact that my wife and I are the absolute best of friends that has helped us through all the difficult periods in our marriage.

I'm so glad to hear you two are restoring both that friendship as well as repairing things between you two sexually. 

Thanks for sharing Aristotle! So often we hear nothing but depressing stories here, it's really great to hear a story of a couple really getting their married life back on the right track!


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

Toffer said:


> Ari,
> 
> While I appreciate that this worked for you, I was a bit troubled by this:
> 
> ...


There is so much missing from the story I posted, but I definitely feel you make a good point.

My wife, like many other wives on this forum, was very open to giving me attention that had nothing to do with sex. In fact, I am sure she would have enjoyed giving me attention all day, but never sexually. I could take her shopping, take her to the movies, take her out to dinner, come home, and she would curl up in my arm and go to sleep. She was very open to giving me attention (maybe this is why this is a success story so far), but my resentment made me not want to give her attention. Instead of going out of my way and doing every chore in the house to impress her, I turned off. I felt as though if she was going to make me feel guilty for being attracted to her, I would emotionally shut down and quit being the friend she wanted me to be. But to answer your question, we spend the rest of the day together as "mutual" friends. Yes, I actually give her something she had been wanting from me, my attention, her old best friend, the guy she married. However, although my story isn't clear, she was always open to give me her attention and friendship, she just never initiated sex and the sex we had felt empty. 

It's a give and take, although some would argue my attention isn't much of a give, I'd disagree. I have always felt, a mind is more important than anyone's body. I think, therefore I am. If I give you my mind and attention but you think your body is on a different level, you are mistaken. That creates resentment, the exact same resentment women think only they have when they are "forced" to have sex with their husbands. It works both ways. Oops, babble over.

Does that make sense?


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

Below is from the same thread as my original response. I feel it adds to my original story somewhat, and maybe hits one of the major issues in our marriage. I feel as though me and my wife never "grew up". Our sex life stayed the same as an inexperienced high school couple (14 years), but as I grew older, I needed more, and she didn't feel comfortable even "trying" more. Below firebelly tries to bottle what sparked the change in my wife and I try to answer to the best of my ability. I find it very hard to put into words, but during lunch today with my wife (we have lunch together everyday, for a year now, since this change). I asked again her how she find the patience to do what she does..... she just said, "I love you." 



firebelly said:


> I keep reading about this 180 thing and not knowing what it is. I'll have to do some research. But, I really want to understand how this happened for you. Did your wife say "I'll give you oral every morning if you will help me with the housework, go shopping with me," etc.? Did she tell you specific things she wanted you to do in return or how did that conversation go?


I wish I had an answer for you. After reading the thread this morning about "How do you get your wife to start giving blow jobs again", I texted my wife and asked her what changed us. I wanted to know why she changed. 

We were high school sweethearts so our life together was still like grown kids. She didn't enjoy oral but never rejected me. When I would ask (she would never initiate) for oral, it was just sucking on my head, lazy (jaw hurts, eyes dry -- stops after a few minutes), almost like a high school girl would give a blow job, even with her at 30 years old. If she tried to put it in the back of her throat, it would maybe go down 2 inches and she would stop. In hindsight, she never grew into a woman sexually. It wasn't until we hit this point in our life, where we treated each other like absolute strangers and everything changed. She wasn't timid giving oral anymore and would demand I didn't move while she worked on "deeping" me. Her inhibitions changed and she became sexually active as an "adult".

I think the concept of a woman cheating on her man and being a whole different sexual person is interesting. For whatever reason they are ashamed to open up with their husbands and be what they really want to be. My wife stepped into that grey area, but she did it with me. That's my only explanation. My dirty talk has always consisted of comments like, "Give me the same sex you'd give a stranger in a one night stand. I want a wild woman, a woman with no cares ...."

Our sleeping arrangement? We slept in different rooms. It really was like we were kids still. I hated feeling someone else move in my bed at night and she kind of just let me hop in bed for sex, then out of bed to go to sleep. She never complained and was always openly ready to cuddle if I stayed, but I didn't. I was still like a high school kid who didn't want to share my bed. I wanted to sleep alone and enjoy my rest. That changed also changed. We agreed to get the kids out of the room and sleep nude together. Every night since, we have done just that, no matter what. If she gets into bed with even panties on, I will roll over and let her know, I want to feel your skin baby. She knows, and she takes everything off. In return, I stay the whole night next to her.

Anal? Same concept. Like when we were teenagers, we would try it once and if it hurt, stop. If I finished, we'd talk about it and she would say she liked it but not enough to do it again any time soon. I'd agree and maybe bring it up a year later. We were both still very "young adult" minded. I never became a man, she never became a woman. Had we left each other in our 30s, I would assume she would have been into anal, deep throat, amazing sex, and slept in the same bed as her new man. I assume I would have slept in the same bed as my new woman. It wasn't a matter of us purposely being prude or against things, it was just that we learned each other as kids and never got to meet as experienced adults. She felt embarrassed to do the things she would have done if she met me later in life. I am not sure if that makes sense. 

You asked me what changed? We came to the point where our relationship had to change or it was over. Either we compromise or we end it. What was the problem? Lack of attention, lack of effort, complacency. 

We agreed to work on our weak points and spend more time together. But, remember, my wife was the type of woman that would never reject me. She has never said "no" if I asked for sex, she would just make me guilty for having it. Her personality is a pleaser and a giver, so now with us working on our relationship, she is still a giver. She wakes me up and kisses on me and says how much she loves me, and yes, eventually will give me oral, just to tease me. Sometimes she will climb on top of me when she gets me wet and we will fool around, but never to orgasm. This became a daily thing once we started sleeping nude. After the first few times she did it, I immediately let her know how much it makes me feel like a fu*cking man. I wanted to grill out, I wanted to go camping with her, I wanted to talk to her all day and tell her how much I was thinking about her. I suppose, she quickly picked up on spending 10-15 minutes with me in the morning kept her on my mind for the next 10 -15 hours. Just that simple act of climbing up on me, kissing my chest, under my arms, down my belly...... I was back 100%. Everything else for me fell in place and she came up with the concept of "our circle". If she keeps me happy, I keep her happy.

She made me feel like a man, so I started acting like a man. I wish I have a more clear explanation but I do not. I'd say my wifes personality plays a huge part in this, because even when I felt totally unwanted and unloved, I could have had sex whenever I wanted. She has never rejected me when I asked for anything intimate. I think deep inside she hated my guts, but she stuck to what she promised from the beginning...... never reject each other sexually.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

Browncoat said:


> It is so vital that couples maintain that friendship. I know for a fact that it's the fact that my wife and I are the absolute best of friends that has helped us through all the difficult periods in our marriage.
> 
> I'm so glad to hear you two are restoring both that friendship as well as repairing things between you two sexually.
> 
> Thanks for sharing Aristotle! So often we hear nothing but depressing stories here, it's really great to hear a story of a couple really getting their married life back on the right track!


When I read some of your posts, I feel like you are pretty close to where I was a year ago. I feel like your wife is very much like mine, in that she still is sexually active with you, but just seems "empty".


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Ari....what else did you do to rekindle the friendship besides sex, or do you think the sexual ntimacy lead to more affectionate showing of friendship? My husband and I are on the verge of breakthrough. I like the circle idea...but I think my situation my husband needs to give some input in the circle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

To me, the whole story reads as follows:
My wife never invested in our marriage, and I felt that. That made me feel lonely. One day she decided to start doing something for me, and I feel great ever since.

I am waiting for the "one day" in my marriage. All of the "no more nice guy" talk is good, but missing one element: if your wife doesn't invest, you can't make her to invest.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Wow. That's quite a read. I can safely say I wish my H would demonstrate his love and appreciation like you do to your W. I can remember a handfull of times my H has let me know how much he is thinking of me via a text or call. He says he doesn't have time to think about me all day.

I am really pleased for you guys. It is a real shame I am so envious : and quite frankly sad and a little tearfull too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

livelaughlovenow said:


> Ari....what else did you do to rekindle the friendship besides sex, or do you think the sexual ntimacy lead to more affectionate showing of friendship? My husband and I are on the verge of breakthrough. I like the circle idea...but I think my situation my husband needs to give some input in the circle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



"do you think the sexual ntimacy lead to more affectionate showing of friendship?"

*For sure. *

I feel more closer to her now as a friend than I ever have. Sex and intimacy is a huge part of my life and marriage, and it's good to have my "friend" on the same page as me now. We can actually have conversations about our sex life, like we can have conversations about a good movie we just watched. 

My wife wanted my attention and friendship. I wanted her to initiate sex and want me. I wanted her to look at me just once while I was in the shower (yes, I communicated this to her, numerous times with no real change), like I looked at her. I wanted her to send me a text message saying how she has been thinking about making love to me all day. I honestly felt jealous of how attracted I was to her, while I got nothing in return. She had no sexual energy towards me and I resented the fact that I thought about her all the time. I wondered what it would be like to have someone think about me all the time.


I didn't purposely destroy the friendship but reading back over my story, I see it was my resentment and purposely giving my attention to everything but her, that ruined our friendship. I sabotaged us on purpose. As soon as she showed effort, initiated, and not only did she initiate she openly tried new things that I never even thought she cared about. I felt revived and wanted. I felt loved again. I felt, for the first time in my life, what it was like to be her. Her waking me up, was something I dreamed about but knew she would never do. I'd ask for a minute in the morning and she would never have time. Now? She wakes me up from a deep sleep, me in her mouth. That will bring the man out in anyone. I immediately gave up my bad habits and gave her the attention she deserved. I talked about everything that was going on, while we did it. We both actively saw what was working and talked about it OVER AND OVER. Rather than me writing letters, emails, texts, and having long conversations how I just wanted to feel wanted.... she had to see it for herself. Talk is talk, but seeing is believing. 

She sees it now. She understands. She came up with the circle herself, which shows me she is taking it very serious.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

joshbjoshb said:


> To me, the whole story reads as follows:
> My wife never invested in our marriage, and I felt that. That made me feel lonely. One day she decided to start doing something for me, and I feel great ever since.
> 
> I am waiting for the "one day" in my marriage. All of the "no more nice guy" talk is good, but missing one element: if your wife doesn't invest, you can't make her to invest.


If she doesn't invest, then you'll have to find a new investment.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> When I read some of your posts, I feel like you are pretty close to where I was a year ago. I feel like your wife is very much like mine, in that she still is sexually active with you, but just seems "empty".


Yep, that's about it. Hoping it will improve for good. In some ways it already has, but in others it seems like it's a challenge still.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Aristotle, if your wife doesn't for a morning or a week of mornings, what will happen?


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

Aristotle said:


> If she doesn't invest, then you'll have to find a new investment.


It's funny that you say that. I read your post and see that your wife was "giving" you a lot of attention: you took her shopping, you took her to the movie. What I read here is someone who was "fine" with whatever you did, yet didn't initiate anything, just let you always take her, make love to her, and hold her while she sleeps.

That's a one way street to me.

Now things are changed. I am glad to read that. Still thinking very hard how some wives realize that and correct it on their own - as no one, besides them, can correct it.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

River1977 said:


> Aristotle, if your wife doesn't for a morning or a week of mornings, what will happen?


Well, her circle becomes a C. According to her it will not stop, it's our circle. There are no orgasms or pressures from me to finish. I do not have any desire to orgasm, especially knowing she will want me that night. If the roles were reversed and I had to wake up first, things would be different because she would never want to wake up like that. However, for me, I love it. I start off my day feeling wanted and loved, and my wife has really dove headfirst into talking and telling me how much she loves me while she kisses me slowly all over. I suppose if she didn't eventually go down to my penis I'd be more irritated with being kissed all over and woke up this way, but the anticipation builds, it wakes me up, and eventually I feel overwhelmed with love as my wife teases me orally for a few minutes in the morning. In return, the rest of the day I am more responsive. Where before I'd eat lunch by myself or with coworkers, now we will meet up and have lunch together. Before she'd text me and I'd respond zombie like disinterested and disengaged, now I will plan our weekends or talk about our days at work. I do not have to fake interest because what she does for me has resparked the area in my brain where I am genuinely interested in what is going on with her again. 

To answer your question though, if she stopped I'd assume I'd stop feeling the urge to call her while she is headed to work when I am getting dressed and getting ready for work myself. She loves this call. I'd assume I'd quit texting as much and stop planning our next weekend because I'd feel she wants me to leave her alone, especially since she has made it clear to me why she is intimate with me in the morning. I assume I'd probably mention to her that my morning sucked. 

The circle was something she started saying first but because I am not cumming or using her to orgasm, I feel pretty strongly on being able to let her know I really enjoy what she does for me. I also wouldn't feel like a bad person complaining about it if she stopped, because it's intimacy without the resentment of feeling used, one person not having an orgasm, or cheap quickie sex. I love her and I want to be loved by her. If 10 to 15 minutes is too much for her in the morning, then 10 to 15 hours is too much for me the rest of the day. I can be the man she wants me to be, or the ex husband / baby father that had this ridiculous need to be intimate with his wife when he woke up and went to sleep.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> Wow. That's quite a read. I can safely say I wish my H would demonstrate his love and appreciation like you do to your W. I can remember a handfull of times my H has let me know how much he is thinking of me via a text or call. He says he doesn't have time to think about me all day.
> 
> I am really pleased for you guys. It is a real shame I am so envious : and quite frankly sad and a little tearfull too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm surprised you see the love and appreciation because I assumed a lot of women would see me as selfish. I've seen members say a woman's body is something worth so much more than a man's attention. I've seen women comparing intimacy with thier husband as torture, while a husbands attention should be automatic. Anyway, I read your story and understand where you are coming from. I hope your husband eventually gets more responsive to your wants and needs.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

This has given me a lot to think about. I have been trying to think of some ways to bring my husband and I closer, and to improve our already really good relationship. I am the 'warmer' partner, and after reading some of those thermostat threads, I thought maybe I should cool down a bit.

But I know that wouldn't work for us. My husband really needs to feel loved by me or he shuts down emotionally pretty quickly. It's a protective thing I think.

It's going to be tricky through as we have two little kids who wake up early and I usually sleep the last part if the night with them. I think it can be done though, if I'm creative...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

Lyris, the root of our problem also had a lot to do with the younger kids. They slept with mom which eventually ran me into another room completely. I wanted the kids happy and they loved hanging out with mom, but there has to be a point where we can shut the door and spend quality adult time. We began telling our kids we need alone time. If later in life they figure it all out, we do not care. It's better they figure out what alone time was with mommy and daddy than figure out what it would be like to have mommy and daddy in 2 different houses. Now with our oldest being in her teens, we have less trouble, because she can keep an eye on the preteens. 

Your kids will love you regardless. Your husband, not so much that same guarantee. Take care of the person you chose to be with for the rest of your life, because when your kids are all out of the house, he will still be the guy you have to live with (hopefully). Me and my wife have this understanding. We love our kids with all our hearts but we have to find time for us, no matter what. Our kids will always be our kids, but US isn't as guaranteed and we will have to work on it. 

Daffodilly, the power of intimacy is amazing. 15 years in and for the last year I have felt like I have this huge crush on my wife again. I've been told by people around me that there is no way the lunches, attention, and total change of hobbies can last. Eventually we will tire out and fall back to our old ways. I am not sure, but I hope not. The circle seems to keep us both focused.


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