# Different sex drives



## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

How do couples with different sex drives make it work? I'm jealous of the women whose husband's don't leave them alone. 

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## Rooster2015 (Jun 12, 2015)

Mollymolz said:


> How do couples with different sex drives make it work? I'm jealous of the women whose husband's don't leave them alone.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


Well at 61 years old my wife and I have sex an average of three times in two weeks. Guess not too bad. She is ten years younger than I. I'm the one wanting twice per week but after read this site I'm gonna be happy with what I have.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Mollymolz said:


> *How do couples with different sex drives make it work?* I'm jealous of the women whose husband's don't leave them alone.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


I got divorced then found a man with a HD. No other viable option unless you are Ok with settling for a sexless life.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mollymolz said:


> How do couples with different sex drives make it work? I'm jealous of the women whose husband's don't leave them alone.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


Ultimately it takes patience, communication, and self development for BOTH people in the relationship. The best place to start is to help teach your partner positive ways to turn down opportunities for intimacy when there is too much anxiety. If sex is not an option, your partner should be willing to give you a back rub or perhaps go jogging with you instead. Then you can improve communication and go from there.

If you feel jealous of women that have the reverse of the situation that you are likely in (the husbands works hard at improving sexual intimacy), be careful. As the advice given to you from such husbands with a high level of desire in efforts to better understand your own spouse is often problematic and will lead to even more jealousy on your behalf. 

Regards,
Badsanta


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I would greatly surmise that there are several different ways to find out, at least during the courtship phase, if they are indeed sexually HD, or whether in actuality they're LD, but that they're giving you the old "bait and switch," hoping to pull the wool over your eyes!*


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Keep in mind different sex drives does not necessarily mean you have to be in a sexless relationship. The key is for both people to communicate and hopefully find some middle ground (easier said than done, something I can vouch for).

The biggest concern I would have is exactly what @arbitrator mentioned, the good ole bait & switch, where someone acts as a higher drive person at the start of the relationship b/c they know that is what is needed to keep the other person interested.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> The biggest concern I would have is exactly what @arbitrator mentioned, the good ole bait & switch, where someone acts as a higher drive person at the start of the relationship b/c they know that is what is needed to keep the other person interested.


There are actually case studies of this, where an individual will try to "impress" their ideal partner and be somebody that they are actually not. All relationships begin this way to a certain degree, but inevitably a person will eventually "be themself" later in the relationship once things are more secure.

In an interview that was shared by a therapist for a case study a person that did this, the interview went like this:

PERSON A): My spouse and I used to have a lot of sex, but now we rarely do and I do not understand what changed.

PERSON B): I used to give my spouse a lot of sex out of fear that the relationship would be abandoned. I have been working on myself and no longer fear my spouse leaving me. 

Regardless of gender, that scenario plays out many times. For those with that dynamic in the relationship PERSON A) will threaten divorce and guess what happens? The frequency of sex increases. But in that event, you really have to ask yourself if you want you spouse to "love you" out of fear of loosing you. Many would argue that is perhaps not real love, but more of maintaining the status quo as to avoid life becoming disruptive for the reluctant partner. 

Badsanta


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Sometimes, maybe often it doesn't work. 

Sometimes in a high desire / low desire relationship, the LD person is LD for some reason. There may be other relationship problems. The HD person may be a selfish or unskilled lover, or have become physically unfit or disgusting in some way. If it is something the HD person can change, then that can lead to things getting better.

Very often though there is nothing "wrong" with the HD person, the LD person simply doesn't want sex - they are naturally LD. Then success depends on the attitude of the lower desire person. If the LD doesn't want a lot of sex but understands that their partners do, and are willing to put in some effort, then things can work. They have to be able to engage in sex as a "gift" for their partner, not as a resented "chore". 

OTOH if the LD partner rejects the idea that the HDs desire for sex is valid, then nothing will fix it. That leaves the couple miserable, the LD person feeling constantly pressured and feeling unvalued, and the HD person feeling frustrated and resentful. You get the typical:

LD: "Is sex all that matters to you?"
HD: "Why can't you do the one thing I need".

Relationships like this can continue in quiet misery indefinitely. 



Having lived as the HD in a HD/LD relationship for 30 years that can't be fixed, my suggestions are:

Remember that you can leave, cheat, or live like a nun. Its a bad choice, but its a choice. Make it and stick with it. 

If you decide not to leave or cheat then:

Then avoid discussions about sex, including avoiding places like TAM. The last thing you want to hear is lots of talk by men who would do absolutely anything anytime for their wives in bed, but are constantly turned down. It will just make you more frustrated.

Sleep in separate rooms. No need to be forced to lie next to the object of your desire and feel constantly rejected.

Get yourself a vibrator and a porn habit. I object to porn when it interferes with a couple's sex life, but if there is no sex life to interfere with, then why not. 



Mollymolz said:


> How do couples with different sex drives make it work? I'm jealous of the women whose husband's don't leave them alone.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

badsanta said:


> There are actually case studies of this, where an individual will try to "impress" their ideal partner and be somebody that they are actually not. All relationships begin this way to a certain degree, but inevitably a person will eventually "be themself" later in the relationship once things are more secure.
> 
> In an interview that was shared by a therapist for a case study a person that did this, the interview went like this:
> 
> ...


I agree that BOTH people are often trying to "impress" their potential partner, but impression management isn't just limited to sex (I'm confident that you already know this, but I want to expand on it for a moment...). 

My late husband sold me a false bill of goods non-sexually FIRST. He figured that if he could convince me that he was a "good enough guy to sleep with", that I would be under the "spell" of his sexual prowess, and "good sex" would make up for any glaring character flaws he may have had. When he would hear my complaints about other relationships, he would chuckle, as if the "other guy" was an "idiot" for not doing x, y and z. 

But HE didn't do x, y and z either, which I discovered over time. When I raised these issues, he said, "A guy can't keep up that façade forever!" Hence, I was losing the emotional attraction and TRUST for him. He was not the person he _pretended_ to be. 

Sex was severely impacted, yet he couldn't seem to understand WHY.  In his mind, I should still want to have sex with him despite his constant lies, angry, controlling, egotistical, condescending, racist, bigoted attitudes. 



> But in that event, you really have to ask yourself if you want you spouse to "love you" out of fear of loosing you. Many would argue that is perhaps not real love, but more of maintaining the status quo as to avoid life becoming disruptive for the reluctant partner.


I DO believe that love out of fear isn't real love for EITHER person. 

If I have sex with 'him' out of fear that he'll leave me if I don't, do *I* really love him?

And if he WOULD leave me, if I don't have sex with him, does HE really love ME?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

OP, it's sad to say but drive mismatches are very hard to overcome, at least in the HD's favor. Anecdotally speaking, the odds are even worse when the man is the LD. I don't think I've seen an instance where an LD man has turned HD (with the same woman).


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> The biggest concern I would have is exactly what @arbitrator mentioned, the good ole bait & switch, where someone acts as a higher drive person at the start of the relationship b/c they know that is what is needed to keep the other person interested.


Ellis, I wonder how many _sexual_ bait & switches are merely _responses_ to an _emotional_ bait & switch of that of their partner?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Vega,
I know that has been your experience - and a sad one at that. It is ALSO true that the 'average' guy struggles to grasp the relationship between stability and passion. 

It's why laughter is such a useful gauge of the health of a relationship. A full body laugh almost always requires your partner to have done/said something unpredictable. A lot of guys like having a stable, maybe even hyper stable routine. Thing is that creates boredom and kills passion. 

I call this trait - being 'excessively patterned'. Its the polar opposite of being adventurous. 




Vega said:


> Ellis, I wonder how many _sexual_ bait & switches are merely _responses_ to an _emotional_ bait & switch of that of their partner?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Mollymolz said:


> How do couples with different sex drives make it work? I'm jealous of the women whose husband's don't leave them alone.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


Me: male HD, Wife LD/reactive desire.
25 year marriage.

1. Negotiate minimum frequency to satisfy both partners. We came up with twice a week. Tuesdays and Friday. A minimum sex frequency was mandatory or I was gone.

2. HD must stop talking about sex, stop asking for sex even on the scheduled sex days. Do not let the LD know that you need sex as much as you need food or water. Even if you told them it would make no sense to them, so stop. It's useless.

3. HD should stop all groping and minimize physical contact outside of scheduled sex days.

4. HD must find something else in his or her life to replace their constant desire for sex and never let the LD know they are unhappy with their sex life.

I have been practicing these steps for several years. Basically it has transformed our sex life. We both enjoy sex much more than we used to. I believe the reason it works is that I have taken away what the LD finds so distasteful and replaced it with unspoken anticipation. The one thing to keep in mind is that the HD must become a great lover with no ego. You must work through the LD's "fake it till you make it compromise" till you reach the promised land which is honest satisfaction from the LD regarding sex. You will know when it happens.

It takes time.

LD MUST be willing to at least try.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

MEM2020 said:


> Vega,
> A lot of guys like having a stable, maybe even hyper stable *routine*. *Thing is that creates boredom and kills passion.
> 
> *


It's funny that you mention this! 

I recently read how women are* _tired_ (a.k.a. _bored_) of the mechanical pattern that we call "sex". Some amount of "foreplay", followed by penetration (of some sort), followed by male orgasm, usually signaling the "end of sex". Rinse and repeat "x" amount of times per week. 

No matter how much you try to 'dress it up', in the end, it still follows some kind of pattern/routine. This is why whenever I hear about people saying that they want sex "x" amount of times per week, I cringe. It's already being turned into a routine and routines become BORING after a while. 

Perhaps it's another explanation as to WHY so many people (especially women) lose interest in sex and become LD and I've wondered how many people would have a renewed interest in a new kind of sex that does NOT always (mostly) strive for the goal of orgasm...?

(*= When I say that women "are" tired etc., the book I read was written in the early 1970's. I saw that a lot of what was written _still_ applies today.)


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

But is that because women are having sex and not also orgasming? If that was the case I'd get it. That would be frustrating.

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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

UMP said:


> Me: male HD, Wife LD/reactive desire.
> 25 year marriage.
> 
> Do not let the LD know that *you need sex as much as you need food or water*. Even if you told them it would make no sense to them, so stop. It's useless.


Well of COURSE it doesn't make sense to the LD! You will physically DIE without food or water. You will NOT physically die without sex! 

If you tell this to an LD, an LD will simply see it as a gross (and obviously untrue) exaggeration in order for the HD to get sex.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Vega said:


> Well of COURSE it doesn't make sense to the LD! You will physically DIE without food or water. You will NOT physically die without sex!
> 
> If you tell this to an LD, an LD will simply see it as a gross (and obviously untrue) exaggeration in order for the HD to get sex.


But it seems unfair to deny the HD person the way in which they feel connection. The HD person tries to do whatever the LD persons needs to feel love. Why not reciprocate? 

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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Mollymolz said:


> But it seems unfair to deny the HD person the way in which they feel connection. The HD person tries to do whatever the LD persons needs to feel love. Why not reciprocate?
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


Especially if the LD continues to masterbate. I think masterbating is healthy, but is it still if the LD persons choses that over sex knowing full well that they're neglecting their parter? 

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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Vega said:


> I agree that BOTH people are often trying to "impress" their potential partner, but impression management isn't just limited to sex (I'm confident that you already know this, but I want to expand on it for a moment...).
> 
> My late husband sold me a false bill of goods non-sexually FIRST. He figured that if he could convince me that he was a "good enough guy to sleep with", that I would be under the "spell" of his sexual prowess, and "good sex" would make up for any glaring character flaws he may have had. When he would hear my complaints about other relationships, he would chuckle, as if the "other guy" was an "idiot" for not doing x, y and z.
> 
> ...


This was my experience with my XH, almost word for word. Except: 

1) my XH didn't admit to faking his entire personality until I had started the divorce proceedings and knew I would never take him back.

2) my XH was the one denying me sex, who was LD and didn't give a sh!t about what I needed to be happy in the relationship. I had to get him drunk to get him to have sex with me, and even then he treated it like a chore.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Mollymolz said:


> Especially if the LD continues to masterbate. I think masterbating is healthy, but is it still if the LD persons choses that over sex knowing full well that they're neglecting their parter?
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


Perhaps they're neglecting their partner because they're partner(s) were/are neglecting them[/I]?

As someone else brought up, one reason why the LD can be LD is because they're not having _orgasms_. 

I'll tell you a little secret....when it comes to MOST orgasmic women having an orgasm, _thrusting_, for MOST women doesn't cut it! Most orgasmic women need _constant_ stimulation to their clitoris. That is, they need the 'right' amount of pressure, with the 'right' amount of moisture, for the 'right' amount of time. When a man thrusts, he most often misses the 'mark'. Thrusting is like applying stimulation and taking it away. The movement isn't constant enough for long enough for her to achieve an orgasm. 

There was only one partner I had who did NOT thrust. Every time we had intercourse, I achieved an orgasm. Every. Single. Time. 

I tried to explain this to my late husband. He was too egotistical to want to try it by claiming that how I explained it would be "boring". Sweetie, if I'm having orgasm, I'm DEFINITELY NOT going to be "bored"! 

What he meant was that HE would be 'bored'. Of course, thrusting provided HIM with the 'right' kind of stimulation that HE needed. He definitely wasn't 'bored'.

It got to the point where I relied on masturbation (that I did NOT share with him) because I knew that I wouldn't be having an orgasm any time soon with him. I had an orgasm with him through intercourse TWICE in 9years. 

No wonder I became LD...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mollymolz said:


> But it seems unfair to deny the HD person the way in which they feel connection. *The HD person tries to do whatever the LD persons needs to feel love. Why not reciprocate? *


Even though the HD person may try everything to make the LD feel loved, the LD will often view it instead as manipulation for more sex. The LD will not reciprocate because the LD does not wish to manipulate others in any way.

This problem is in my opinion a manifestation of the LD's low self esteem and feel that they are unworthy of being loved. Instead of actually feeling loved, they give into their low self esteem that convinces them that they are just being used. It becomes a vicious cycle.

"No More Mr Nice Guy" addresses this problem _indirectly_ for men in that it suggests that HD men need to focus on caring and loving themselves first. The result is that the LD wife will usually respond well to her husband's attempts of self improvement and self happiness because it takes the spotlight off of her anxieties of having to face her own low self esteem (from attention she was getting). Ultimately this is still problematic because the wife is still struggling with low self esteem and that the real problem while alleviated is never actually addressed.

Badsanta


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Vega said:


> And if he WOULD leave me, if I don't have sex with him, does HE really love ME?


And if you don't have sex with him, do you really have a marriage to begin with?


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

badsanta said:


> Even though the HD person may try everything to make the LD feel loved, the LD will often view it instead as manipulation for more sex. The LD will not reciprocate because the LD does not wish to manipulate others in any way.
> 
> This problem is in my opinion a manifestation of the LD's low self esteem and feel that they are unworthy of being loved. Instead of actually feeling loved, they give into their low self esteem that convinces them that they are just being used. It becomes a vicious cycle.
> 
> ...


It seems like there is no happy medium

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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

john117 said:


> And if you don't have sex with him, do you really have a marriage to begin with?


That's what I think. It becomes more like a roommate situation. 

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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mollymolz said:


> It seems like there is no happy medium


If the HD wants to make the LD feel loved in a way to benefit the relationship, at the end of the day I think it is persistence that will work. The HD however has to be rather vulnerable and patient throughout this process. There can be no expectations other than trying to make your spouse feel loved and start confirming that to you by improving communication.

In other words, it is a long and rather tedious process. 

There is no quick fix, other than placing a lot of focus on just trying to have "fun" being around each other and always staying positive. The benefits of this do allow momentary breakthroughs during the long process of working on your self development as a couple.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

badsanta said:


> Even though the HD person may try everything to make the LD feel loved, *the LD will often view it instead as manipulation for more sex. *The LD will not reciprocate because the LD does not wish to manipulate others in any way.


Yes Badsanta, because at the end of the day, it IS about sex! 



> This problem is in my opinion a manifestation of the LD's low self esteem and feel that they are unworthy of being loved. Instead of actually feeling loved, they give into their low self esteem that convinces them that they are just being used. It becomes a vicious cycle.


Depends on the LD. When I was LD, it wasn't because of "low self-esteem". In fact, it was the complete opposite. I wasn't about to have sex with a man who I KNEW didn't love me. If anything, my self-esteem was high enough to stop 'giving' to a man who was selfish. Even our therapists agreed to that. 

There are a number of reasons why someone can become LD, and some of those reasons can be very complex. It's not a one-size-fits-all kind of dilemma. 

There ARE some LD's who simply don't want/need that much sex. There's nothing "wrong" with them, and many LD's resent the idea that there is.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

john117 said:


> And if you don't have sex with him, do you really have a marriage to begin with?


It depends. How much sex do you have to have with your spouse in order to have a "marriage" for the duration of the marriage? If you can't have sex with your spouse for medical reasons, do you still have a marriage? How about if you're deployed overseas for a year?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Vega said:


> Yes Badsanta, because at the end of the day, it IS about sex!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OH COME ON!!!! @Vega by this time you should know that HD folks can not take the blame for anything. That is why it takes a LLLLOOOOOONNNGGGG time to resolve with the HD being vulnerable and patient. 

I expected more from you than that! Don't mess with my process, I know what I am doing!

Badsanta


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Vega said:


> It depends. How much sex do you have to have with your spouse in order to have a "marriage" for the duration of the marriage? If you can't have sex with your spouse for medical reasons, do you still have a marriage? How about if you're deployed overseas for a year?


Those are different circumstances then choosing to not have sex. By actively avoiding sex in what should otherwise be a happy marriage is not the same as being physically incapable of it. My husband's lack of interest in me leaves me feeling undesirable. I'd love to have sex 2-3 times a week. An amount that which he believes qualifies me to be a sex addict. 

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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I agree that love out of fear is not love for either and is never a good situation. 

Having sex out of fear that someone will leave is not good.


OTOH, leaving because of a lack of sex does seem OK to me. Actually I think it is OK to leave for almost any reason: there are very few valid reasons for anyone to stay in a relationship that makes them unhappy.

No one should ever be pressured into sex, but no one should ever feel stuck in a relationship where the sex is bad. 


So - leaving due to a bad sex life is OK, but threatening to leave is not. 






Vega said:


> snip
> 
> I DO believe that love out of fear isn't real love for EITHER person.
> 
> ...


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

uhtred said:


> I agree that love out of fear is not love for either and is never a good situation.
> 
> Having sex out of fear that someone will leave is not good.
> 
> ...


Agreed 

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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Here is an interesting observation I made. I have been the higher drive person in my marriage. For a variety of reasons I have been on the lower side the last 3+ months or so. I can understand that being of a lower drive, you really do have limited incentive/motivation when it comes to sex. However, and I think this is important to note, what I found is as a lower drive person I am just not the same person to my W in terms of affection/interest. This isn't being done consciously, but my drive is part of who I am. My point in all this is that for those lower drive persons who maybe wish their higher drive SO would come back down closer to their level, don't be surprised if you don't quite like the outcome. This is in no way an attack on LD people, just an observation at myself being a mostly HD person to having periods of LD.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

So many different situations and issues here. 

A: If you have a partner who does not do everything they can to please you in bed, then it is perfectly reasonable to rarely or never want sex. 

B: If other parts of your relationship are broken, or your partner is physically or behaviorally undesirable, it is perfectly reasonable to rarely or never want sex. 


C: Trying to explain what sex for a HD is like to a LD is difficult. Nothing is quite the same. One more try: imagine that social norms required you to eat the same foods as your partner. Now imagine that your partner is only willing to eat McDonalds hamburgers and salads, no sauce, dressing etc, and vitamins as needed. Nothing else ever. You can live on that (baring some very long term health effects). Your are wealthy enough to eat whatever you want, around you people are eating apples, drinking fresh orange juice, chocolate, steaks etc. All you get year after year is McDonalds. They don't understand why anyone would eat anything else. 


D: Some LDs do not believe that sex is important. "you are like a child complaining that they can't always have dessert". They have no interest in changing the situation because they do not see anythinf wrong with it and nothing the HD says will convince them otherwise. 


A and B are things that the HD can change. If that is the situation, then they can fix it.

If A and B are false, and D is false, then the LD may recognize the importance of sex to the HD. They may be willing to provide it as a "gift" to someone that they love, even if they don't enjoy it themselves (despite "A" the HD making their best efforts).

So if A and B are false and D is true, then what is suggested? There is nothing the HD can do, but because of D, the LD doesn't have any interest in changing their behavior. 


For most of the HD posters here, A and B are false, but D is true. Otherwise they wouldn't have a problem to complain about.

For most of the LD posters here, either A or B is true, so they reasonably feel that being LD makes sense. For some D may also be true, and they use A and B to justify their feelings that sex isn't important. 

Someone for whom D is true but A and B are false will rarely be posting here because sex is not important to them.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

If you were with someone who was generally a good to you and in particular did everything they could to please you in bed, do you think you would enjoy frequent sex?

I ask because there are some currently LD people who would, and some who would not. There are very few who would not who are on these boards, but if you are one of them, it would be interesting to know. 





Vega said:


> Perhaps they're neglecting their partner because they're partner(s) were/are neglecting them[/I]?
> 
> As someone else brought up, one reason why the LD can be LD is because they're not having _orgasms_.
> 
> ...


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Here is an interesting observation I made. I have been the higher drive person in my marriage. For a variety of reasons I have been on the lower side the last 3+ months or so. I can understand that being of a lower drive, you really do have limited incentive/motivation when it comes to sex. However, and I think this is important to note, what I found is as a lower drive person I am just not the same person to my W in terms of affection/interest. This isn't being done consciously, but my drive is part of who I am. My point in all this is that for those lower drive persons who maybe wish their higher drive SO would come back down closer to their level, don't be surprised if you don't quite like the outcome. This is in no way an attack on LD people, just an observation at myself being a mostly HD person to having periods of LD.


I think in terms of affection/interest, to SOME LD's, a 'lull' in the HD's drive may welcomed, as in before, affection/interest from the HD usually ='d SEX. 

For others however, the LD may miss the physical contact (hugs, kisses, cuddles, hand-holding, snuggles, etc.)


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mollymolz said:


> I'd love to have sex 2-3 times a week. An amount that which he believes qualifies me to be a sex addict.


 @Vega you can also see here that the LD will not accept the blame either and will accuse an HD person of being an "addict." By definition an addiction is something that prevents you from functioning in normal everyday life. I highly doubt sex 2-3 times a week would come anywhere close to that definition. Also don't forget that we are here to help the original poster (OP). 

In a sexual mismatch, usually BOTH people require some sort of personal development, and that process takes time. Both people are usually completely normal just the way they are, but don't exactly know how to communicate and accommodate each other in a mutually beneficial way yet sexually. 

@Mollymolz do NOT allow your husband to shame you!

Badsanta


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

This can lead to some problems as well. 

My wife wants long hugs, intimate kisses, massages, and lying naked together in bed - but not sex. For me those things are arousing enough that it is very frustrating to do those and never continue to sex. (sometimes is fine, but I mean almost never).

It leads to a real gap in physical intimacy. She doesn't want sex but wants other close physical contact. I don't want close physical contact and no sex, so we end up with almost nothing, less than what either wants. 




Vega said:


> I think in terms of affection/interest, to SOME LD's, a 'lull' in the HD's drive may welcomed, as in before, affection/interest from the HD usually ='d SEX.
> 
> For others however, the LD may miss the physical contact (hugs, kisses, cuddles, hand-holding, snuggles, etc.)


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

badsanta said:


> @Vega you can also see here that the LD will not accept the blame either and will accuse an HD person of being an "addict." By definition an addiction is something that prevents you from functioning in normal everyday life. I highly doubt sex 2-3 times a week would come anywhere close to that definition. Also don't forget that we are here to help the original poster (OP).
> 
> In a sexual mismatch, usually BOTH people require some sort of personal development, and that process takes time. Both people are usually completely normal just the way they are, but don't exactly know how to communicate and accommodate each other in a mutually beneficial way yet sexually.
> 
> ...


I think you may have me confused with someone else, Badsanta. After my experiences with my late husband, I would have killed to _ONLY_ have sex 2-3 times a week! Two or three times a week hardly rises to the title of sex "addict".

I don't even think that every day rises to that degree, either. 

Not. Even. Close.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

This comes back to the range of issues here. 

Some people are being pressured for sex more than daily. Others are turning it down more frequently than once every month or so, and some want no sex ever (multiple years). 

While I don't want to have hard limits on "normal", I see roughly a weekly to a several times a week as pretty typical, and its often not reasonable to push for substantially more or less than that. (everything else being OK).




Vega said:


> I think you may have me confused with someone else, Badsanta. After my experiences with my late husband, I would have killed to _ONLY_ have sex 2-3 times a week! Two or three times a week hardly rises to the title of sex "addict".
> 
> I don't even think that every day rises to that degree, either.
> 
> Not. Even. Close.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

In my experience, it is very rare to satisfactorily resolve a significant difference in sex drive. You can live with the problem - and be forever frustrated and probably resentful - or realize that you are incompatible and move on.


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## Hellomynameis (Dec 16, 2016)

Early in our relationship my H and I had very similar sex drives. Our only sexual limitation was how many condoms we could afford on our very limited poor starving college student budget. There were weeks when we lived on nothing but Ramen noodles and dry cereal but at least we had condoms! And yeah there were a few times we engaged in risky behavior, reusing them when we couldn't afford more. 

I lost interest in sex when it became apparent to me how little of an emotional connection we had. I didn't recognize it early in our relationship but after about 4-5 years it became pretty obvious. He never looked me in the eyes, never kissed me, stopped caring if I enjoyed it. Stopped spending time with me outside the bedroom. Worst of all his mother became increasingly verbally and emotionally abusive to me and he wouldn't stand up for me against her. He wasn't willing to work on our relationship outside the bedroom so I no longer wanted a relationship in the bedroom. I still met his need for sex 1-2 times a week though. I got NOTHING in return from him. Toward the end we didn't even sleep in the same room and some nights he didn't even come home.

Years after we separated, he was diagnosed with high functioning autism. I don't know how much this may have contributed to his lack of emotion, but I know he hasn't been able to maintain another LTR for more than a couple of years at a time. We were together for 12 years.

One could say we had a HD/LD mismatch through most of our marriage. Whether that accurately reflects our actual drive level I'm not sure. I do know that he has bed hopped on a regular basis for the past decade, while I havent gone on a date or had sex even once since the last time I slept with him back in 2007. I would say that his HD is the reason for his sleeping around, but I don't consider myself LD just because I choose not to do the same. I don't sleep around because it goes against everything I was raised to believe in. We are still legally married - therefore I don't have sex with other men.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

uhtred said:


> C: Trying to explain what sex for a HD is like to a LD is difficult. Nothing is quite the same. One more try: imagine that social norms required you to eat the same foods as your partner. Now imagine that your partner is only willing to eat McDonalds hamburgers and salads, no sauce, dressing etc, and vitamins as needed. Nothing else ever. You can live on that (baring some very long term health effects). Your are wealthy enough to eat whatever you want, around you people are eating apples, drinking fresh orange juice, chocolate, steaks etc. All you get year after year is McDonalds. They don't understand why anyone would eat anything else.


Coming from an LD point of view, *I* can use the same analogy.

The LD sees the HD as wanting steak. Doesn't matter if it's filet mignon, chateaubriand or London broil, it's still steak. Doesn't matter if you broil it, sautee it, or even fry it, it's still steak! Doesn't matter if you smother it in mushrooms, or add a nice creamy garlic-butter sauce, it's _still_ steak! And it's steak megatimes a week. 

Couldn't you eat something that's NOT steak for a change? There's chicken, fish, pasta, pork, organ meats, salads, etc. But the HD ONLY wants steak. 

How about one more analogy...

The HD goes to an amusement park with the LD. The HD ONLY wants to ride on the biggest, fastest, highest roller coaster; the one that twists and turns and flips upside down in 5 places. No other ride will do. And the HD wants to ride it over and over and over and over...you get the message. 

There are numerous other rides and things to do/see in the park. If you manage to get the HD away from the roller coaster, it's like the HD becomes anxious. The HD wants to know WHEN (s)he can go back to the roller coaster. 

Doing anything over and over again can get boring after a while.

Maybe the LD is just plain bored.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Vega said:


> I think in terms of affection/interest, to SOME LD's, a 'lull' in the HD's drive may welcomed, as in before, affection/interest from the HD usually ='d SEX.
> 
> For others however, the LD may miss the physical contact (hugs, kisses, cuddles, hand-holding, snuggles, etc.)


Very true, every situation will be different. I know in my situation it would be the latter as my W will frequently comment that she misses those things. 



uhtred said:


> This can lead to some problems as well.
> 
> My wife wants long hugs, * intimate kisses*, massages, and *lying naked together in bed* - but not sex. For me those things are arousing enough that it is very frustrating to do those and never continue to sex. (sometimes is fine, but I mean almost never).
> 
> It leads to a real gap in physical intimacy. She doesn't want sex but wants other close physical contact. I don't want close physical contact and no sex, so we end up with almost nothing, less than what either wants.


It amazes me that for the two bolded items anyone would want those and not get aroused enough to want sex :scratchhead: I know if that was the case for me, I would rather just avoid those situations altogether. It is tough, and I think the problem is when neither people are willing to find some middle ground (or moreso maybe one person is willing to find some middle ground but the other is not willing).


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

uhtred said:


> If you were with someone who was generally a good to you and in particular did everything they could to please you in bed, do you think you would enjoy frequent sex?
> 
> I ask because there are some currently LD people who would, and some who would not. There are very few who would not who are on these boards, but if you are one of them, it would be interesting to know.


Define "frequent" sex. Would I want sex 2-3 times a day again, if the relationship was GREAT?

No.

For me, that's TOO much sex. At 59 years old, the mere _thought_ of masturbating just about knocks the wind out of me, lol! 

In all honesty, I'm a bit jaded with the whole must-have-sex- 'X' -amount- of- times-per-week...thing. Sex is too 'goal oriented' for me. It's the difference between getting into the car and going for a drive as opposed to driving to a destination. The 'destination' of sex seems to be the orgasm, and so many people focus on that, that they don't pay much attention to the _journey_. 

I realize that there aren't a lot of men like me (especially at my age), but I'm willing to wait. 

And if waiting means that I'll never have what I'm looking for (I know it exists; it's just rare), that's o.k. I can still enjoy my life WITHOUT sex. I'm happy!


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## prunus (Oct 29, 2016)

Mollymolz said:


> How do couples with different sex drives make it work? I'm jealous of the women whose husband's don't leave them alone.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


I'm jealous, too. It didn't work for us, but sexless was just one part of the problem.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

In your analogy do you view all forms of sex as "steak", or is the issue a partner who wants a very limited set of sexual activities?



Vega said:


> Coming from an LD point of view, *I* can use the same analogy.
> 
> The LD sees the HD as wanting steak. Doesn't matter if it's filet mignon, chateaubriand or London broil, it's still steak. Doesn't matter if you broil it, sautee it, or even fry it, it's still steak! Doesn't matter if you smother it in mushrooms, or add a nice creamy garlic-butter sauce, it's _still_ steak! And it's steak megatimes a week.
> 
> ...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Sorry, I should have defined "frequent". I meant 2-3 times / week.



Vega said:


> Define "frequent" sex. Would I want sex 2-3 times a day again, if the relationship was GREAT?
> 
> No.
> 
> ...


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Here is an interesting observation I made. I have been the higher drive person in my marriage. For a variety of reasons I have been on the lower side the last 3+ months or so. I can understand that being of a lower drive, you really do have limited incentive/motivation when it comes to sex. However, and I think this is important to note, what I found is as a lower drive person I am just not the same person to my W in terms of affection/interest. This isn't being done consciously, but my drive is part of who I am. My point in all this is that for those lower drive persons who maybe wish their higher drive SO would come back down closer to their level, don't be surprised if you don't quite like the outcome. This is in no way an attack on LD people, just an observation at myself being a mostly HD person to having periods of LD.


Very true. VERY true.

I'm not sure I'd qualify as HD or LD. Kind of middle of the road. What I do know is that for the past year or so I've been very LD toward my wife, after years of being the one trying to chase after her. The mismatch between us has worn me down to the point where I really just don't desire her anymore. To Vega's point, this may be welcome by my wife--I honestly don't know because I don't seem to register on her radar at all most of the time. I can tell you though that along with my desire, my overall feelings toward her have taken a hit. We're friendly, we laugh, we cooperate---but I just can't really dredge up any romantic feelings for her anymore.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

uhtred said:


> In your analogy do you view all forms of sex as "steak", or is the issue a partner who wants a very limited set of sexual activities?


Lol that's kind of what I thought. Needing variety and spice is definitely needed. The analogy should be comparing going to the amusement park and riding all the rides and not going at all. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Fozzy said:


> Very true. VERY true.
> 
> I'm not sure I'd qualify as HD or LD. Kind of middle of the road. What I do know is that for the past year or so I've been very LD toward my wife, after years of being the one trying to chase after her. The mismatch between us has worn me down to the point where I really just don't desire her anymore. To Vega's point, this may be welcome by my wife--I honestly don't know because I don't seem to register on her radar at all most of the time. I can tell you though that along with my desire, my overall feelings toward her have taken a hit. We're friendly, we laugh, we cooperate---but I just can't really dredge up any romantic feelings for her anymore.


So then are you ready LD or have circumstances just made you like that toward her? If so, I get it. A person can only put themselves out there for so long before getting hurt and moving on emotionally. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Mollymolz said:


> So then are you ready LD or have circumstances just made you like that toward her? If so, I get it. A person can only put themselves out there for so long before getting hurt and moving on emotionally.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


I'm only LD toward her. I do still have spontaneous arousal etc. But years of trying to deal with mismatch has just put me off her. Maybe it will change at some point. Maybe not. I just don't have the desire to try anymore. The ball is in her court.

We've had sex a grand total of 4 times since February. Each time made me feel worse than before. The last time, a couple of weeks ago, she made a comment afterward that I seemed like I was all happy and glowing. Mentally, I told her to not give herself so much credit. In truth, I felt absolutely nothing.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Fozzy said:


> I'm only LD toward her. I do still have spontaneous arousal etc. But years of trying to deal with mismatch has just put me off her. Maybe it will change at some point. Maybe not. I just don't have the desire to try anymore. The ball is in her court.


I've tried that method. The ball usually stays there for a long time. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Mollymolz said:


> I've tried that method. The ball usually stays there for a long time.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


Yeah I know what you mean, but for me at this point, it's not a method. I'm not trying to wait her out. I'm just done.


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

Fozzy said:


> Yeah I know what you mean, but for me at this point, it's not a method. I'm not trying to wait her out. I'm just done.


Fair enough. That's difficult. I'm sorry. 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

uhtred said:


> In your analogy do you view all forms of sex as "steak", or is the issue a partner who wants a very limited set of sexual activities?


I'm viewing sex as anything to get you to the point of _orgasm_ with a partner. Intercourse, Handjobs, b.j.s, cunnilingus, mutual masturbation, etc. Mostly intercourse (PIV). 

It's not that the partner has a limited set of sexual activities; it's that the activities seem to ALWAYS include a predictable pattern that includes SOME kind of stimulation to orgasm, mostly through PIV. A couple could swing naked on a chandelier, lick every inch of his or her partner's body, take a long sensuous bath together...and it's usually going to end with SOMEONE having an orgasm USUALLY through PIV. 

Ellis wrote that he couldn't see intimate kissing/lying naked next to someone in bed and NOT be aroused enough to want to have sex with that person. *MY* thinking is, why NOT?! Why can't we simply take the orgasm out of the equation for a change? 

I'm willing to bet that if more HD's did that, the LD would see the HD in a completely different light.


BTW, while you probably know by now that I'm not fond of 'routines', I don't see "frequent" as 2-3 times a week. I see that frequency as pretty "low key".


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Vega said:


> It's funny that you mention this!
> 
> I recently read how women are* _tired_ (a.k.a. _bored_) of the mechanical pattern that we call "sex". Some amount of "foreplay", followed by penetration (of some sort), followed by male orgasm, usually signaling the "end of sex". Rinse and repeat "x" amount of times per week.
> 
> ...


In your experience. Mine is different, we have sex at a minimum 7 times per week, usually 10 times and 3 of these are "routine" in that I like to send him on his way with a smile in the morning.

None of the rest is "routine" except for the outcome which is BOTH of us ending to completion. It is funny but even though we have sex every night it is never routine, it is actually very spontaneous in that we sort of know it will happen but the actual way it happens is not pre planned. The only real given if is we have had a few wines then it is usually wilder than if no wine but apart from that there is no predictability to the experience.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Fozzy said:


> Very true. VERY true.
> 
> I'm not sure I'd qualify as HD or LD. Kind of middle of the road. *What I do know is that for the past year or so I've been very LD toward my wife, after years of being the one trying to chase after her. The mismatch between us has worn me down to the point where I really just don't desire her anymore.* To Vega's point, this may be welcome by my wife--I honestly don't know because I don't seem to register on her radar at all most of the time. I can tell you though that along with my desire, my overall feelings toward her have taken a hit. We're friendly, we laugh, we cooperate---but I just can't really dredge up any romantic feelings for her anymore.


The bolded is the big risk. I know I have heard people comment that they aren't LD, but they have become LD to a certain person or based on circumstances, so I think this is a very real possibility (i.e. an unintended consequence).


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mollymolz said:


> I've tried that method. The ball usually stays there for a long time.


*
Badsanta's Pick Up Artist Moves for Your Reluctant Spouse #2055 We Are Having Sex, But We Are Keeping Our Pants On!*

Surprise you reluctant partner by handing them to remote to a remote control vibrator. Claim the vibrator is positioned for ideal sexual stimulation for you, but in reality just have it somewhere discrete like in your inside-coat pocket or something, or don't even have it on you at all! The remote can even just be a key FOB that no longer works, but claim to him it is "disguised that way on purpose!" Then be ready to play out a role playing scenario. Whenever your partner pushes the button, pretend the vibrator is way more freaking powerful than you ever imagined. Beg him to stop and even if he tries make him think the remote is broken and that it will not stop. Get onto the floor and pretend to start going into convulsions as if you are having orgasm after orgasm after orgasm. Beg him to make it stop by pulling off your pants and removing the vibrator.

OK, this is where it gets good!

Claim the vibrator is inserted deeply inside you and that he will need to gently reach in, try to feel it, and help you remove it. Obviously you can not do this because you are having pretend spasm after pretend spasm and can not even control yourself. As he reaches into you to try and help you remove the vibrator (that is not there by the way), relax a little and say that whatever he is doing really helps. Tell him not to stop, because whatever his hand is doing is finally giving you a break from all the nonstop pretend orgasms. Pretend to calm down while still having gentle pretend orgasms and hug him while asking him to keep his fingers inserted for a moment. Calm all the way down and say that you will now try and get it out. Jump up and goto the bathroom. 

Return calmed down, tell him that you flushed that stupid remote vibrator down the toilet, and that you are never ever going to try that again. Ask him if he feels the same? Thank him for helping you. See what he has to say...

The purpose of this is not to trick your spouse into fingering you, but more for exposing them to an "erotic emergency" to see how he will respond. Odds are he may feel guilty for pressing the button, but also amazed to discover that you can have what seemed to be a nonstop series of powerful orgasms. It is likely that his own sexual response to witnessing this will cause him to become very aroused, and the adrenaline from thinking you were in an emergency situation will catch all his feelings off guard. He may respond very well or perhaps not. Odds are he will get aroused and the adrenaline will super power that arousal, and for once you will have your husband right where you want him, extremely aroused and unable to control his feelings of being very aroused for you.

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Mollymolz (Jan 12, 2017)

badsanta said:


> *
> Badsanta's Pick Up Artist Moves for Your Reluctant Spouse #2055 We Are Having Sex, But We Are Keeping Our Pants On!*
> 
> Surprise you reluctant partner by handing them to remote to a remote control vibrator. Claim the vibrator is positioned for ideal sexual stimulation for you, but in reality just have it somewhere discrete like in your inside-coat pocket or something, or don't even have it on you at all! The remote can even just be a key FOB that no longer works, but claim to him it is "disguised that way on purpose!" Then be ready to play out a role playing scenario. Whenever your partner pushes the button, pretend the vibrator is way more freaking powerful than you ever imagined. Beg him to stop and even if he tries make him think the remote is broken and that it will not stop. Get onto the floor and pretend to start going into convulsions as if you are having orgasm after orgasm after orgasm. Beg him to make it stop by pulling off your pants and removing the vibrator.
> ...


That's too funny. Although I think he'd call bull**** right away  worth a try though? 

Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

That is very interesting, and again shows variations in how people think about sex. 

To me there is a continuum from hand holding to kissing to passionate kissing / petting to erotic touches, to sex to orgasm. There is no clear dividing line, but once people start to get aroused, I can't imagine any reason not to continue to an O for both.

For my wife there is a sharp divider at any genital contact. Pretty much anything less, she enjoys, wants to do, but usually doesn't find sexually arousing. She very rarely wants "sex" by which she means any genital contact, but she finds that arousing and almost always has an O. 

Vega, so I can understand, when you talk about "activities" without an O, do you also draw a line at genital contact, or is even that OK but you don't want an O? do you find passionate kissing, cuddling naked etc to be sexually arousing, or is it nice in a different non-sexual way?



Your comment that 2-3 times / week is "low key" shows just how wide a range there is. I think my wife and I have engaged in sexual activity 3 times one week, less than 4 weeks out of 30 years (and I'm including our honeymoon and anniversary trips). When we have these HD/LD discussions, people need to mention actual frequencies more. 


At least in my case "taking the orgasm out of the equation" doesn't change things- its almost always out of the equation anyway. 





Vega said:


> I'm viewing sex as anything to get you to the point of _orgasm_ with a partner. Intercourse, Handjobs, b.j.s, cunnilingus, mutual masturbation, etc. Mostly intercourse (PIV).
> 
> It's not that the partner has a limited set of sexual activities; it's that the activities seem to ALWAYS include a predictable pattern that includes SOME kind of stimulation to orgasm, mostly through PIV. A couple could swing naked on a chandelier, lick every inch of his or her partner's body, take a long sensuous bath together...and it's usually going to end with SOMEONE having an orgasm USUALLY through PIV.
> 
> ...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

You are talking about "cannot" whereas most of us are talking about will not.

That makes a HUGE difference.



Vega said:


> john117 said:
> 
> 
> > And if you don't have sex with him, do you really have a marriage to begin with?
> ...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Agreed.

A partner who cannot have sex for medical reasons does not include the rejection that makes being turned down so painful. 

I think we also need to separate sex from "sexual activity". I think what is expected is that people will try to find ways to please their partners - within reason considering their condition. 

Of course there may still be medical issues that prevent any sort of sexual activity. 







DTO said:


> You are talking about "cannot" whereas most of us are talking about will not.
> 
> That makes a HUGE difference.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Vega said:


> Ellis wrote that he couldn't see intimate kissing/lying naked next to someone in bed and NOT be aroused enough to want to have sex with that person. *MY* thinking is, why NOT?! Why can't we simply take the orgasm out of the equation for a change?


FYI - I never said an O was a must. I understand that is the end goal in most cases, but if you look at sex as nothing more than the O, well, then I think that is the type of person who will probably be content with intimate kissing/lying naked next to someone and nothing more.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

DTO said:


> You are talking about "cannot" whereas most of us are talking about will not.
> 
> That makes a HUGE difference.


I think most of us are talking about two people who are physically capable of having sex. I made a vow to my W in sickness and in health, and I will stick with that. This doesn't apply to someone who consciously decides to deprioritize sex (or other aspects) of the marriage over time.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

My sex therapist said every couple should work towards having sex AT LEAST once a week in order to maintain a happy marriage. 

If it's less than that, you're in trouble. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## Skate Daddy 9 (Sep 19, 2011)

When we were younger my wife constantly rejected me, I understand that sex for women is different then it is for men and that at the time my wife was dealing with things but to be honest I am tired of the games that I am expected to play to get sex and so I no longer approach my wife. I am 46 and have been married for 25 years and I would rather blue ball it then put up with all of the crap so now I am the one with LD. I still can't get past the 20 years of rejection. I was told I was a pig and a pervert for wanting to have sex twice a month and now that my wife has taken the I will put out if you initiate approach I don't want anything to do with her. My word of warning to anyone that is the LD partner, you are making some deep scars that might not ever heel if you continue to not care about your partners needs.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Skate Daddy 9 said:


> When we were younger my wife constantly rejected me, I understand that sex for women is different then it is for men and that at the time my wife was dealing with things but to be honest I am tired of the games that I am expected to play to get sex and so I no longer approach my wife. I am 46 and have been married for 25 years and I would rather blue ball it then put up with all of the crap so now I am the one with LD. I still can't get past the 20 years of rejection. I was told I was a pig and a pervert for wanting to have sex twice a month and now that my wife has taken the I will put out if you initiate approach I don't want anything to do with her. My word of warning to anyone that is the LD partner, you are making some deep scars that might not ever heel if you continue to not care about your partners needs.


Yeah, been there and heard the same crap, so I know what you mean. I finally got to the point of no return, and divorced the biotch at 45. It did take a very long time to heal from that - and I still have triggers occasionally - despite finding and marrying a truly wonderful woman who is as HD as me and does everything that makes me happy (as I do for her).


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

To be honest, reading this thread makes me want to scream. It is stuffed full and overflowing with myth, bias, nonsense, and self-centered advice. It's like watching someone trying to remove toast with a fork while the toaster is still on.

But people here are not unusual; I've encountered this same bias from many, many people. It's the general attitude that what I want sexually is important but what you want isn't. You typically find that LD people think of a higher sex drive as abnormal and they might even think that they are doing the HD person a favor by pointing this out. Frequent accusations are that the HD person "only cares about sex" or even more priceless "is addicted to sex". The opposite accusation is that the LD person "is distant". We used to say that they were a prude or were frigid. The frigidity accusation created a pushback that was almost as absurd as the accusation. 

None of this helps; none of this will ever help. And, to be honest, I would be stunned if even 5% of the hundreds of thousands of self-help books got this topic right.

To address this further. I've seen some truly horrible step by step or pushbutton solutions. People aren't vending machines; these never work.

Does anyone really want to discuss this or are you just looking for sympathy or a place to vent your frustrations?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Fozzy said:


> OP, it's sad to say but drive mismatches are very hard to overcome, at least in the HD's favor. Anecdotally speaking, the odds are even worse when the man is the LD. I don't think I've seen an instance where an LD man has turned HD (with the same woman).


Your post prompted my train of thought. What I discovered was my husband and I were actually wanting similar frequency and, for the most part, styles of intimacy and sex. I was wrapped up thinking he was LD and closing off from me. Here's where the healthy slap of reality (and therapy) helped... I was closing off from him... just in different ways other than sexually. 

What I'm thankful for is that he was the one willing to take initial responsibility and look at why we were at that place in our dynamic. He couldn't understand it himself. He started with T-scores (which were on the low-side) then delved into other considerations. There were some typical factors mixed in with FOO issues. Meanwhile I had to stop pointing the finger of blame to wise up and learn that I played a part in this too. And delved into the factors concerning me.

At that time I would have thought I was HD and he was LD. Now I know that's incorrect and the label wasn't applicable or helpful.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> What I discovered was my husband and I were actually wanting similar frequency and, for the most part, styles of intimacy and sex. I was wrapped up thinking he was LD and closing off from me. Here's where the healthy slap of reality (and therapy) helped... I was closing off from him... just in different ways other than sexually.
> 
> At that time I would have thought I was HD and he was LD. Now I know that's incorrect and the label wasn't applicable or helpful.


Finally, something positive.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mollymolz said:


> How do couples with different sex drives make it work? I'm jealous of the women whose husband's don't leave them alone.


Here is a link to a thread that might be helpful for you.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/350970-sex-starved-wife.html


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

I'm really tired of the garbage self-help advice. When someone begins with a mention of communication, chances are they are parroting something from a self-help book. I'll give you an example. One of the books I've seen quoted frequently is the 5 Love Languages. This book is mostly empty of value and includes such non-wisdom as:

_Once the experience of falling in love has run its natural course (remember, the average in-love experience lasts two years), we will return to the world of reality and begin to assert ourselves._

So, we can't tell reality from fantasy for two years when we fall in love? Seriously? There must be more of this wisdom around here somewhere. Oh, yes:

_My sex therapist said every couple should work towards having sex AT LEAST once a week in order to maintain a happy marriage._

This is nonsense. Another comment was:

_While I don't want to have hard limits on "normal", I see roughly a weekly to a several times a week as pretty typical, and its often not reasonable to push for substantially more or less than that. (everything else being OK)._

This is closer in terms of averages. About 2/3rds of couples fit into the range from sex once every two weeks to twice a week. Guess what? There is a similar ranges for almost everything including height, weight, shoe size, etc. But, these are meaningless to any given couple just like average shoe size for men means nothing to me when I have to buy a pair. There is no average, no rule of thumb, and no push button answer.

_Your comment that 2-3 times / week is "low key" shows just how wide a range there is. I think my wife and I have engaged in sexual activity 3 times one week, less than 4 weeks out of 30 years (and I'm including our honeymoon and anniversary trips). When we have these HD/LD discussions, people need to mention actual frequencies more. _

These are all normal amounts of sex. But, since we are being honest, the most I've ever had sex in one day is seven times. I could have had more if my late wife had been willing. Oh, I guess someone is going to ask, yes, I reached orgasm all seven times. That amount is normal too. No, I could not have that much sex everyday.

_Ultimately it takes patience, *communication*, and self development for BOTH people in the relationship. The best place to start is to help teach your partner positive ways to turn down opportunities for intimacy when there is too much anxiety.

The key is for both people to *communicate *and hopefully find some middle ground (easier said than done, something I can vouch for).
_

There's the communication word arriving on schedule. Unless one of you speaks Chinese and the other speaks English you don't have a communication problem.

"But, we don't talk..."

Actually, you probably do talk, probably everyday, many times. I think what you mean is that you aren't being honest about your problems.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Here is a link to a thread that might be helpful for you.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/350970-sex-starved-wife.html



And the answer is: *More Self-Help Books!*

It's like if you were malnourished and I said that the answer was to eat two bags of marshmallows a day. Has anyone stopped to consider that if a self-help book actually worked there probably wouldn't have been a reason to write the other 300,000. The typical self-help book consists of:

1. Confidence. Don't worry, I'll fix your problem.
2. A rephrasing of something everyone already knows. Many people have problems in their marriage.
3. Advice so lame it is embarrassing to repeat. Nothing gets better unless you work on it.
4. A list of other books by the same author or publisher.

I should write a book:

_You Can End Your Self-Help Addiction In 5 Easy Steps._


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

Let's talk about the real stuff, okay?

_Remember that you can leave, cheat, or live like a nun. _

If your refrigerator breaks you can demolish your house, borrow your neighbors refrigerator, or you can do without one. Compromise as some have suggested would be like buying a Styrofoam cooler and filling it with ice everyday. It might work temporarily but it's unlikely to work over time. Do you know what else won't work? Bargaining, negotiating, ultimatums, guilt, etc.

_ The best place to start is to help teach your partner positive ways to turn down opportunities for intimacy when there is too much anxiety.
_

I think what you are trying to say is that your partner shouldn't have to have sex if they don't want to. This seemed obvious to me, but then:

_They have to be able to engage in sex as a "gift" for their partner, not as a resented "chore"._

Well, there we go. Your partner should just gift you some sex. But, wait a minute. Couldn't you look at it the other way around and say that the HD partner should gift some abstinence? I'm picturing O. Henry's "Gift of the Magi" and we know how that turned out.

_OTOH if the LD partner rejects the idea that the HDs desire for sex is valid, then nothing will fix it. That leaves the couple miserable, the LD person feeling constantly pressured and feeling unvalued, and the HD person feeling frustrated and resentful._

So, this is about feeling rejected, pressured, and undervalued, not actually about differing sex drives?

I've noticed that this thread has been really good on detailing problems but not so good on finding any solutions (except more Self-Help Books!).

Let's start with this:

_1. Negotiate minimum frequency to satisfy both partners. We came up with twice a week. Tuesdays and Friday. A minimum sex frequency was mandatory or I was gone.

2. HD must stop talking about sex, stop asking for sex even on the scheduled sex days. Do not let the LD know that you need sex as much as you need food or water. Even if you told them it would make no sense to them, so stop. It's useless.

3. HD should stop all groping and minimize physical contact outside of scheduled sex days.

4. HD must find something else in his or her life to replace their constant desire for sex and never let the LD know they are unhappy with their sex life._

Let's see, threats, compromise, don't talk about it, and don't admit to a problem. Gosh, why wouldn't that work?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

@scientia, you complain a lot about "myth, bias, nonsense," but have yet to offer anything useful. Or, are you as ignorant as you think the rest of us are?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> @scientia, you complain a lot about "myth, bias, nonsense," but have yet to offer anything useful. Or, are you as ignorant as you think the rest of us are?


You don't have to be a PhD in Rocker Science to figure out what he's saying is mostly accurate. The majority of self help books are crap filled with generalities.

Interpersonal relations are not an easy subject to tackle, and starting with bad pop psych advice really doesn't improve things. Even many real psych self help books like Schronach (sp?) are fairly hard to follow for the same reasons.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

john117 said:


> You don't have to be a PhD in Rocker Science


This science 










or this science


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

john117 said:


> You don't have to be a PhD in Rocker Science to figure out what he's saying is mostly accurate. The majority of self help books are crap filled with generalities.
> 
> Interpersonal relations are not an easy subject to tackle, and starting with bad pop psych advice really doesn't improve things. Even many real psych self help books like Schronach (sp?) are fairly hard to follow for the same reasons.


So he's right about the pop psych stuff - most people already know that. He implies that he knows something better, so I want him to put up or shut up.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You have several posts about how what several of us are suggesting is wrong. What are you suggesting will work?

Do you have a specific suggestion that is better than leave / cheat / live without sex?

Are you married to a LD person who never wants sex? 




scientia said:


> Let's talk about the real stuff, okay?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

scientia said:


> I've noticed that this thread has been really good on detailing problems but not so good on finding any solutions (except more Self-Help Books!).


Gotta agree. I don't read that 'self help' garbage. Never have, never will.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

How about we address th OP's question rather than get into a "who's the angriest poster" contest?


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> @scientia, you complain a lot about "myth, bias, nonsense," but have yet to offer anything useful. Or, are you as ignorant as you think the rest of us are?


Okay, I'm going to stop being sarcastic. There are solutions. But keep this in mind:


Before you can try anything, you might have to work on figuring out what the problems are. You can't fix what you don't know.
You are an individual. What works for you may not work for someone else.
You may have to try several things before you find what works.
You may find that your understanding of the problem evolves or changes over time. That's fine.
Your solution might also need to change. That's fine too.

So, let's start with my own experience. I have a pretty high sex drive. When I am with a partner with a lower sex drive it's difficult. If my partner doesn't want sex then I feel rejected. If I masturbate then I'm certainly not going to be fantasizing about the person who is rejecting me. So, isolated masturbation adds distance. But the other problem is that I can't maintain any interest if my partner is willing but doesn't really want to. Someone suggested that the higher drive partner should be more selfless and only worry about his partner's pleasure. Yes, I did that too. Sex was really bad. Sure, I could stimulate her to orgasm. But, each time we had sex I had to wait to see what she was willing to do so there was no anticipation at all. And when I did bring her to orgasm it didn't translate to any participation on her part. She was willing to have sex but was completely passive. That doesn't work for me. Now, maybe you aren't like me. Maybe a passive partner is okay with you. That's fine. 

But, if it isn't working then I have various suggestions. A number of these would work for the LD partner in place of sex.

_What? What? How can you replace sex?_

Let's start from the most intimate and work out from there. I suppose most people would be happy with some type of manual stimulation from a partner. However, we've already heard that this is not always satisfactory for the giving partner. So, let's go lower. Would the LD partner be willing to kiss or even to cuddle without kissing while their partner masturbated? Maybe this level is acceptable. But, if not, there are other levels. For example, many would like to hear their partner reading erotic passages from a book. This could be live in the same room, perhaps on the other side of a curtain if necessary, via intercom, or even recorded. The main thing is that there is a connection. One partner acknowledges the other's sexuality and participates even if not directly. It makes a difference. In this case, you would be thinking about your partner so this type of masturbation helps the relationship. Also, with a recording, you can listen to it and masturbate without involving your partner. However, you don't want this in secret. There needs to be some indication that you are doing it. It might be as simple as putting marks on a calendar or something more creative like putting a quarter in a piggy bank or pasting stars in a ledger. 

Cuddling and reading erotic material are likely to work regardless of whether the LD partner is male or female. When the woman is LD she might also consider something visual like nude pictures of herself (a mask, dark glasses, or face paint is okay if you are concerned about your face showing). What she should do is print it out and then cut it into smaller pieces, each one big enough to add some interest. That could keep her partner anticipating the next piece while allowing some time between picture taking sessions. Some HD women might be visual also. But this requires an LD partner who isn't completely shy and an HD partner who likes visual stimulation. Just remember that your HD partner can't take the pictures for you. To work effectively, the pictures have to be something they've never seen. Sometimes you can cheat a little. If you can find someone online whose body is close to yours, you can make this person your body double. Big stars have done it for nude scenes so it might work for you too.

Indirect methods can also be bargained for. For example, you might trade a massage for another picture or another recording. This can work because these are infrequent; you aren't taking pictures or making recordings everyday. Also, you aren't bargaining for sex itself. This might also work with commercial erotic material if the LD partner is the one who obtains it and gives it to the HD partner. This one is more problematic since it would likely take a stronger connection than simply handing out porn to a partner. In other words, you need to view your partner as the erotic source rather than as a kind of pimp or madam (which are simply brokers or providers). But, with some variation, who knows, it might work for some.

Some couples can do forking exercises but this doesn't work with everyone. This would mean that the LD partner arouses the HD partner. This could involve kissing, erotic clothing, showing lingerie, partial nudity, massage, showering together, or even something like spanking (if that turns you on). It could involve talking about an upcoming encounter. For example, let's say it's Wednesday but the couple won't actually have sex until Saturday. The LD partner talks about what might happen on Saturday. The difference is that when the HD partner becomes sufficiently aroused they go to another room to masturbate. Again, the LD partner can't be too shy to talk to act or display in ways that arouse. But, some are okay with this because there is no requirement for direct sexual participation.

_But my partner reads in a monotone and refuses to take nude pictures or cuddle._

There are other exercises you can do. But again, any given technique may not work with you. Some may be okay with cuddling after masturbation. In this case, the LD partner does not arouse but knows that their partner will be masturbating and is ready to cuddle and be close for awhile after that. This can may provide enough feeling of connection. If you are willing to try different things you might be able to find something that works for you.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

scientia said:


> Okay, I'm going to stop being sarcastic. There are solutions. But keep this in mind:
> 
> 
> Before you can try anything, you might have to work on figuring out what the problems are. You can't fix what you don't know.
> ...


Thank you for responding. However, I don't see anything remotely acceptable in your options and alternatives that will satisfy a HD partner. None of them would work for me, at least. As is usually the case, you're advocating that the HD must dumb down or suppress their own sexuality to be acceptable to the LD and get any kind of response from the LD. The least I'd find acceptable is a partner with responsive desire that can be stimulated to respond at least 2 or 3 times a week; ideally, I want a partner who has similar drive who initiates at _least _some of the time. Otherwise, we'd be too incompatible to continue a relationship. Now, I admit that I endured a very LD partner in a sexless marriage for 20 years. I tried all the communication, marriage counseling, affirmation, etc., none of which changed a thing. If I'd known of your suggestions, I'd have studied them - and rejected them out of hand. Eventually, I gave up all hope for change, and divorced her. IMO, divorce or breaking up is the ONLY viable solution to an unsatisfactory sex life - and the sooner the better. There may be other things that override this decision, but that means accepting that you'll have to live with the frustration. My life is much better post-divorce, and I sought and found a partner who matches my drive and range.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Success will vary but none of that works in my case:

My wife is not happy providing manual stimulation except once ever few weeks. To her that *is* sex. 

My wife is not interested in being around when I masturbate. 

She is not interested in nude pictures of herself. 


She is LD. She is not interested in sex, or sexual activity of any sort except very rarely. She believes this to be normal and has no interest in learning otherwise. I think you will find a lot of LDs in this state - they do not want sex and do not believe that "normal" people want much sex. 






scientia said:


> Okay, I'm going to stop being sarcastic. There are solutions. But keep this in mind:
> 
> 
> Before you can try anything, you might have to work on figuring out what the problems are. You can't fix what you don't know.
> ...


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> However, I don't see anything remotely acceptable in your options and alternatives that will satisfy a HD partner.


Really?



> None of them would work for me, at least.


This sounds more honest. Those specific suggestions may not work for you. But then I wasn't trying to make suggestions specifically for you or about you. To be honest, I don't know what your expectations or limitations are so it would be difficult to try to suggest something for you.



> As is usually the case, you're advocating that the HD must dumb down or suppress their own sexuality to be acceptable to the LD and get any kind of response from the LD.


No, not really. I think I've already mentioned that my own sex drive is higher than most of the population. Why would I want to dumb down or suppress my sexuality?



> The least I'd find acceptable is a partner with responsive desire that can be stimulated to respond at least 2 or 3 times a week; ideally, I want a partner who has similar drive who initiates at _least _some of the time.


That sounds pretty reasonable. And 2 times a week is fairly common. I don't know that I could maintain a relationship with only 2 times a week.



> If I'd known of your suggestions, I'd have studied them - and rejected them out of hand.


Again, I haven't made any suggestions for you.



> Eventually, I gave up all hope for change, and divorced her. IMO, divorce or breaking up is the ONLY viable solution to an unsatisfactory sex life - and the sooner the better.


Your opinion is clearly wrong. Divorce isn't the only solution, but it may be the final choice when another solution can't be found.



> There may be other things that override this decision, but that means accepting that you'll have to live with the frustration.


No, I've never suggested that. If you can't be happy together then why would you stay together?


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Success will vary but none of that works in my case:
> 
> My wife is not happy providing manual stimulation except once ever few weeks. To her that *is* sex.
> 
> ...


Yes, I understand that. 



> She is LD. She is not interested in sex, or sexual activity of any sort except very rarely.


I assume that you mean that she wouldn't be interested in doing any erotic reading for you or something like that.



> She believes this to be normal and has no interest in learning otherwise. I think you will find a lot of LDs in this state - they do not want sex and do not believe that "normal" people want much sex.


Yes, I've already said this.

To start with, I don't know what "rarely" is or what your expectations would be. I also don't know if you would be happy with non-sexual interaction before or after masturbation. Are you saying that she wouldn't be willing to do this and how do you know this?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@scientia it amuses me that you criticize most other posters, then proceed with a long winded post describing a variety of sexual things that an LD Person who isn't interested in sex should do. I don't see that ever happening 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I don't think sex drive and attraction (mental and physical) are necessarily one and the same. 

And as simple as we feel this ought to be, it is often complex.

I've attempted several times to summarize aspects of our dynamic and can't seem to in a concise way. It becomes a paradox!


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

scientia said:


> Okay, I'm going to stop being sarcastic. There are solutions. But keep this in mind:
> 
> 
> Before you can try anything, you might have to work on figuring out what the problems are. You can't fix what you don't know.
> ...


I could have bolded a lot more but while you are trying to be helpful it seems you are not familiar with the LD male which is understandable. Sorry but pretty much all your suggestions are unlikely to work with a LD male.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> Thank you for responding. However, I don't see anything remotely acceptable in your options and alternatives that will satisfy a HD partner. None of them would work for me, at least. As is usually the case, you're advocating that the HD must dumb down or suppress their own sexuality to be acceptable to the LD and get any kind of response from the LD.* The least I'd find acceptable is a partner with responsive desire that can be stimulated to respond at least 2 or 3 times a week; ideally, I want a partner who has similar drive who initiates at least some of the time.* Otherwise, we'd be too incompatible to continue a relationship. Now, I admit that I endured a very LD partner in a sexless marriage for 20 years. I tried all the communication, marriage counseling, affirmation, etc., none of which changed a thing. If I'd known of your suggestions, I'd have studied them - and rejected them out of hand. Eventually, I gave up all hope for change, and divorced her. IMO, divorce or breaking up is the ONLY viable solution to an unsatisfactory sex life - and the sooner the better. There may be other things that override this decision, but that means accepting that you'll have to live with the frustration. My life is much better post-divorce, and I sought and found a partner who matches my drive and range.


The bolded is worth highlighting, at least in my case, especially the last part which I think the Responsive Desire person does not understand (i.e. telling your SO that you would be happy having sex 2-3x a week but never make an effort to initiate is a huge turnoff). In many respects it is no different then rejecting your SO, without having to deal with the guilt of actually rejecting them.

Separately, since it was discussed about maybe masturbating while your SO kissed or cuddled you, I really don't get this. It just seems like nothing more then a quick patch to a bigger problem. Plus, if I need to masturbate b/c of lack of sex, I will just do it on my own time. Seems like it would just lead the LD into further belief that they can continue with minimal effort.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

scientia said:


> Your opinion is clearly wrong. Divorce isn't the only solution, but it may be the final choice when another solution can't be found.


Wrong? I exaggerated! :surprise: My basic assertion (without the hyperbole) is still correct: Divorce is most often the best solution, if you want to have a normal, satisfying sex life.

Sure, some people will decide that other things are more important and stay in a sexually incompatible relationship, but almost all will still be dissatisfied and frustrated. They will try to make the best of a bad situation, but I doubt that many will truly be happy about it. It's not a choice I would ever again make, but I've seen how incredibly better life can be once the decision to leave is made and the impacts accepted and mitigated as best you can.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

scientia said:


> Your opinion is clearly wrong. Divorce isn't the only solution, but it may be the final choice when another solution can't be found.


Divorce is the only solution entirely within the control of the HD spouse. All other solutions require the cooperation of the LD spouse, which is often absent.



> If you can't be happy together then why would you stay together?


Kids. Finances. Fear of the unknown. Lots of reasons.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Ideally she would have sex once a week - but that is only if nothing more important needs to be done. In reality its about once a month. For her "sex" is any sort of sexual contact, she pretty much will only do HJs these days.

She is embarassed by any mention of masturbation and can't even admit that she does it - even though she does. 




scientia said:


> Yes, I understand that.
> 
> 
> I assume that you mean that she wouldn't be interested in doing any erotic reading for you or something like that.
> ...


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> describing a variety of sexual things that an LD Person who isn't interested in sex should do.


Actually, no; I didn't describe anything that a person should do. As I said before, there is no push button solution; if there was, you would already have found it.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Wrong? I exaggerated! :surprise: My basic assertion (without the hyperbole) is still correct: Divorce is most often the best solution, if you want to have a normal, satisfying sex life.


You've toned it down a bit, but you are still wrong in your assumptions. 


Differences in sex drive is a big problem in relationships. True.
Often people don't know how to solve this type of problem. True.
With no solution, divorce may be the best solution. True.

But, notice that this does not lead to your conclusion. The fact that most couples probably don't know of a solution does not mean that none exist nor does it mean that couples have really tried to find a solution. I've noticed that the only "solutions" that seem to get mentioned here are:

1. The HD partner gives up on sex, sacrificing to make the LD partner happy.
2. The LD partner engages in unwanted sex, sacrificing to make the HD partner happy.
3. Both sacrifice to some extent reaching a median state of unhappiness for both.

I'm sorry but none of these seem like solutions to me. It seems that you've reached the same conclusion, but are then jumping straight to divorce.



> Sure, some people will decide that other things are more important and stay in a sexually incompatible relationship, but almost all will still be dissatisfied and frustrated. They will try to make the best of a bad situation, but I doubt that many will truly be happy about it.


I've never suggested this. I wouldn't want to stay in a relationship where I was continually unhappy sexually.



> It's not a choice I would ever again make, but I've seen how incredibly better life can be once the decision to leave is made and the impacts accepted and mitigated as best you can.


You are simply agreeing with me. I don't know why you think this is a new point.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

scientia said:


> You've toned it down a bit, but you are still wrong in your assumptions.
> 
> 
> Differences in sex drive is a big problem in relationships. True.
> ...


Yes, *you* are agreeing with everything I said, except "jumping" to divorce. I never advocated going straight to divorce - I expect almost everyone would follow the usual attempts to communicate, seek counseling, or try something else first. Those things usually do not work (going by all I've read and experienced), so the *end result *is either divorce or living unhappily. Oh, you don't advocate staying in that case. We agree again. Hmmm.

We do disagree on your "alternatives." Do you have anything - such as published studies - to support your ideas? Without that, at least, I contend that it is all nonsense.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

MrsHolland said:


> I could have bolded a lot more but while you are trying to be helpful it seems you are not familiar with the LD male which is understandable. Sorry but pretty much all your suggestions are unlikely to work with a LD male.


One woman I talked to who had an LD ex-husband said that whenever they went out he would pick a fight with her when they got home to head off any initiation of sex. I've heard descriptions from women whose husbands wanted sex once every four months. There may not be a solution for a given couple, but I almost never see any search for a solution beyond begging, coercing, or even threatening the LD partner to have more sex. I also understand having a partner who isn't willing to try anything and who is insulting and abusive with regard to your higher sex drive.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> Seems like it would just lead the LD into further belief that they can continue with minimal effort.


I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone if having sex with me was an effort. Perhaps we are different in this regard.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

scientia said:


> I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone if having sex with me was an effort. *Perhaps we are different in this regard.*


Not sure I understand the bolded, different in regards to what (the part of my post you quoted was in response to the idea of masturbating with your partner present as an alternative which seems silly to me)?

The point IMO is when there is a drive mismatch it will require effort to some degree for both people to work together. Now, what each person defines as effort may vary. Heck, like every other aspect of a relationship, there will also be some effort required


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Yes, *you* are agreeing with everything I said, except "jumping" to divorce. I never advocated going straight to divorce


Actually you did in your two previous comments. This is specifically what I objected to.



> I expect almost everyone would follow the usual attempts to communicate, seek counseling, or try something else first. Those things usually do not work (going by all I've read and experienced)


Communication is a buzz word with little meaning. And very few therapists specialize in sexual problems. So, you are left with the mountains of self-help books which have about the same content as books about Atlantis, Bigfoot, and aliens. Have you ever seen case studies from therapists who do specialize in sexual problems (like Masters and Johnson)?



> so the *end result *is


Now you are back to repeating what you just denied saying. This is a conclusion; it's where we disagree.



> We do disagree on your "alternatives." Do you have anything - such as published studies - to support your ideas? Without that, at least, I contend that it is all nonsense.


You are seeking a statistical solution for an individual problem? Wow, I can't imagine who you pick as your doctor.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> The point IMO is when there is a drive mismatch it will require effort to some degree for both people to work together. Now, what each person defines as effort may vary. Heck, like every other aspect of a relationship, there will also be some effort required


I don't know what to tell you. For me, I need to be desired by my partner. If I don't have that then there is no point. Now, suppose my partner desires me less often than I would prefer. I can't fix that by insisting on more sex. And, I don't know of any way to increase desire.

That's the reality of what I'll have to deal with. Can you explain how effort would increase desire in an LD partner rather than simply increasing sexual frequency?


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Ideally she would have sex once a week - but that is only if nothing more important needs to be done. In reality its about once a month. For her "sex" is any sort of sexual contact, she pretty much will only do HJs these days.
> 
> She is embarassed by any mention of masturbation and can't even admit that she does it - even though she does.


This is one of the more heartbreaking posts in this thread. Clearly you are drifting apart.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

scientia said:


> I don't know what to tell you. For me, I need to be desired by my partner. If I don't have that then there is no point. Now, suppose my partner desires me less often than I would prefer. I can't fix that by insisting on more sex. And, I don't know of any way to increase desire.
> 
> That's the reality of what I'll have to deal with. *Can you explain how effort would increase desire in an LD partner rather than simply increasing sexual frequency?*


IDK, you seem to be drawing different conclusions from what I am posting, so not quite sure where this is going lol.

In terms of effort, I never said increased effort will lead to increased desire. If you go back to my original response to Married, it was in regards to a responsive desire partner (and the idea that having to pick up the slack per se with a RD partner is a workable solution assuming the RD partner still makes some effort to initiate).


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> I can tell you though that along with my desire, my overall feelings toward her have taken a hit. We're friendly, we laugh, we cooperate---but I just can't really dredge up any romantic feelings for her anymore.


Sounds very similar to my marriage. When I married, I was more than old enough to know better and looking back, there were many red flags. However in my previous relationships, I'd never experienced someone with no sexual drive (at least towards me) and lack of having romantic feelings. Therefore it was not on my radar of things to watch out for. We did not live in the same city for most of our dating relationship, so it was easy for her to hide.

Like you, we get along fine otherwise in daily life.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

scientia said:


> There may not be a solution for a given couple, but I almost never see any search for a solution beyond begging, coercing, or even threatening the LD partner to have more sex.


I don't agree with characterizing the HD's actions as "begging, coercing, or even threatening" for sex, but that might be a matter of semantics.

The truth is LD spouses overwhelmingly reject the HD spouse's sexual energy, not just the sex act itself. Your typical LD spouse does not want to snuggle while the HD rubs one out, talk dirty, provide a dirty photo, etc. The LD typically gets worn out / overwhelmed by any sexual expression at a pace too far beyond their "capacity".

Certainly, in my case my ex-wife did not want to acknowledge my sexuality in any way, shape, or form outside of her preferred rate. If I had suggested she do those alternate activities I would been told some form of "I don't even want to do it the regular way with you. Why would I want to do THAT?" I think she is by far the norm for LDs in that regard.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

scientia said:


> You are seeking a statistical solution for an individual problem? Wow, I can't imagine who you pick as your doctor.


Yes, I want some evidence. Now, if rubbing blue mud in your navel works for YOU, go for it. A common problem needs a more generic approach, and to be accepted as a worthwhile method to even try, it needs plausibility and evidence of efficacy. Or I can sell you a year's supply of sugar pills that I've chanted over under a full moon - just slip one in her coffee and she'll suddenly desire you and drag you off to bed! Only $365! Results may vary. No refunds.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

THIS!

I think people who have never encountered someone who is naturally LD can't really imagine someone not wanting ,or rarely wanting any sort of sexual activity under any conditions. 


"I'd like us to lie in a muddy puddle". 
"No". 
"Well what if I just smear some mud on you". 
"No, I don't like mud". 
"What if you watch while I wallow around in the mud?"
"No"
.....







DTO said:


> I don't agree with characterizing the HD's actions as "begging, coercing, or even threatening" for sex, but that might be a matter of semantics.
> 
> The truth is LD spouses overwhelmingly reject the HD spouse's sexual energy, not just the sex act itself. Your typical LD spouse does not want to snuggle while the HD rubs one out, talk dirty, provide a dirty photo, etc. The LD typically gets worn out / overwhelmed by any sexual expression at a pace too far beyond their "capacity".
> 
> Certainly, in my case my ex-wife did not want to acknowledge my sexuality in any way, shape, or form outside of her preferred rate. If I had suggested she do those alternate activities I would been told some form of "I don't even want to do it the regular way with you. Why would I want to do THAT?" I think she is by far the norm for LDs in that regard.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Mollymolz said:


> How do couples with different sex drives make it work? I'm jealous of the women whose husband's don't leave them alone.
> 
> Sent from my E2306 using Tapatalk




I have bought a really good sex toy and use it when I'm really in the mood. This way, I don't pester Mrs.CuddleBug for sex and get the "eyes rolling" or "sigh" etc. response.

Mrs.CuddleBug is LD and conservative.

I am HD and adventurous.

There is no easy way to make sexually mismatched couples happy. What usually happens is the HD spouse does all the comprising while the LD spouse does little to nothing.

Just the way it is.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

CuddleBug said:


> I have bought a really good sex toy and use it when I'm really in the mood. This way, I don't pester Mrs.CuddleBug for sex and get the "eyes rolling" or "sigh" etc. response.
> 
> Mrs.CuddleBug is LD and conservative.
> 
> ...


The bolded is really the sad part of it all ...


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

I disagree. I think in the typical mismatched scenario the LD spouse does alot. They just don't do alot of sex. They do alot of rejecting and preemptive rejecting. They do alot of justifying why they are correct / entitled to do so much rejecting. They do alot of nit picking the HD's flaws. They do alot of rationalizing why the HD's needs and desires are unreasonable, unhealthy and bad for the relationship. They do alot of arguing that the HD really should, for their own good, tone down their level of need and desire.

Do not underestimate the amount of work that the LD puts into maintaining the low level of sexual activity. It is exhausting to fend off the HD all day every day. It would be much easier for the LD if the HD would simply stop wanting or needing sex. And be more like the LD. Now THAT would enable the LD to do very little. As it is, while the clash continues, the LD is expending enormous energy dealing with the sexual issues in the marriage. Probably more energy than if they simply gave in and had more sex.


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## hifromme67 (Oct 30, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> I disagree. I think in the typical mismatched scenario the LD spouse does alot. They just don't do alot of sex. They do alot of rejecting and preemptive rejecting. They do alot of justifying why they are correct / entitled to do so much rejecting. They do alot of nit picking the HD's flaws. They do alot of rationalizing why the HD's needs and desires are unreasonable, unhealthy and bad for the relationship. They do alot of arguing that the HD really should, for their own good, tone down their level of need and desire.
> 
> Do not underestimate the amount of work that the LD puts into maintaining the low level of sexual activity. It is exhausting to fend off the HD all day every day. It would be much easier for the LD if the HD would simply stop wanting or needing sex. And be more like the LD. Now THAT would enable the LD to do very little. As it is, while the clash continues, the LD is expending enormous energy dealing with the sexual issues in the marriage. Probably more energy than if they simply gave in and had more sex.




Amen!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hifromme67 (Oct 30, 2016)

In my opinion, LD people don't really exist. They are just lazy and selfish. I believe they have just conditioned themselves to be that way. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Communication and compromise is needed in this situation. We all have different sex drives and these can change at different points in out lives as well. 
So if one spouse only wants sex twice a month and the other twice a week, then settle on once a week. A little more effort required for the one who wants it less, and a little self control for the one who wants it more. That's what marriage is all about, compromise, communication and working things out for both spouses.


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## shippon (Feb 6, 2017)

i am pretty worried right now my wife who had a normal D to maybe HD after the first child (1yr old) is turning into a LD. Don't know if it's the breastfeeding but that's my only guess at this point since I do help out to try and make it easier. 

But I share others sentiments here that being the HD with a LD is such a downer since the LD has all of the leverage.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

@shippon: 2 small kids at home will kill of many women's sex drive. You can try doing more to help with the kids, taking both of them so she has time to herself, taking her out on date nights to remind her she is a woman and wife and not just a mom. But often with 2 or more babies the mom simply cannot get her mind off the kids enough to relax and want to share herself with her husband. You may be married to one of those moms.

Try the above ideas. If they don't work, you will have to be patient unless you are willing to divorce over this. How you handle not getting any sex probably won't affect how much sex you get now (close to zero no matter what you do), but can have a huge impact on how much sex you get when the kids get older. If you are a whiny jerk now, she won't be much in the mood for sex even after she stops breastfeeding, the kids stop clawing at her all day, they can potty nd dress and feed themselves so she isn't doing so much physical work to care for them, etc. Might not be anything you can do to get more sex now, but there is alot you can do to ensure you won't be getting any sex later, either.

Oh, and if she is the type of mom who can't turn off mom mode and get back into sexy mode, you might want to wait a few years to have another kid. The second small one isn't twice as much work, it is infinitely harder. With one in diapers, when they nap you can nap or do housework. With 2 small kids, when one naps the other is likely awake and wanting mommy time. There is no respite. It is a relentless demand from the kids for time and attention. When Dad asks for sex, that is just one more chore on top of the unending pile of tasks.

I know my post is not very optimistic about your getting lots of sex anytime soon. But at least it gives you an idea what you are dealing with and why, from her side, it always seems she is too exhausted and stressed to have sex.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

hifromme67 said:


> In my opinion, LD people don't really exist. They are just lazy and selfish. I believe they have just conditioned themselves to be that way.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have to disagree with this. My wife is LD and she WANTS to want it more, and has even been to a doctor a few times to check hormone levels, etc. She says she likes sex but just rarely gets in the mood. She could fake it and have sex anyway, but that would not change the fact that she is LD. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## shippon (Feb 6, 2017)

Holdingontoit said:


> @shippon: 2 small kids at home will kill of many women's sex drive. You can try doing more to help with the kids, taking both of them so she has time to herself, taking her out on date nights to remind her she is a woman and wife and not just a mom. But often with 2 or more babies the mom simply cannot get her mind off the kids enough to relax and want to share herself with her husband. You may be married to one of those moms.
> 
> Try the above ideas. If they don't work, you will have to be patient unless you are willing to divorce over this. How you handle not getting any sex probably won't affect how much sex you get now (close to zero no matter what you do), but can have a huge impact on how much sex you get when the kids get older. If you are a whiny jerk now, she won't be much in the mood for sex even after she stops breastfeeding, the kids stop clawing at her all day, they can potty nd dress and feed themselves so she isn't doing so much physical work to care for them, etc. Might not be anything you can do to get more sex now, but there is alot you can do to ensure you won't be getting any sex later, either.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I completely understand your point and that's why we've only got one for now. I am in now way mentally or physically prepared to have another. To elaborate, she is willing to do it when she's not too tired, but it usually feels like she's just doing it, as you say like a chore. I work long hours as well and if it was reversed and she was the one initiating, I would make the effort. I am just hoping it's due to the time and energy of looking after a 1 year old and not yet weaned.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @scientia it amuses me that you criticize most other posters, then proceed with a long winded post describing a variety of sexual things that an LD Person who isn't interested in sex should do. I don't see that ever happening





MrsHolland said:


> I could have bolded a lot more but while you are trying to be helpful it seems you are not familiar with the LD male which is understandable. Sorry but pretty much all your suggestions are unlikely to work with a LD male.





EllisRedding said:


> The bolded is worth highlighting, at least in my case, especially the last part which I think the Responsive Desire person does not understand (i.e. telling your SO that you would be happy having sex 2-3x a week but never make an effort to initiate is a huge turnoff). In many respects it is no different then rejecting your SO, without having to deal with the guilt of actually rejecting them.
> 
> Separately, since it was discussed about maybe masturbating while your SO kissed or cuddled you, I really don't get this. It just seems like nothing more then a quick patch to a bigger problem. Plus, if I need to masturbate b/c of lack of sex, I will just do it on my own time. Seems like it would just lead the LD into further belief that they can continue with minimal effort.


Here's the problem with these replies. You can start with any arbitrary set of sexual requirements and you will be very unlikely to find a partner who meets all of them, regardless of their sex drive. You could also reject a partner for reasons not limited to sex such as how they kiss. But the list of potential exclusions doesn't stop there; you could in fact reject a partner for almost any arbitrary reason. No two people would be compatible. 

Secondly, why are you pretending that I somehow claimed that any two people would be compatible, regardless of sex drive? I didn't. What I actually did was make suggestions about what two people could try if they wanted to work on a relationship. If you begin with the assumption that you don't want to work on anything then other than the chance to claim sour grapes why would any of my suggestions matter to you? It's similar to complaining about your neighbor's cake recipe when you don't intend to ever bake a cake and don't even eat cake.

My suggestions wouldn't work for you? That's fine but why are you also claiming that they wouldn't work for anyone else? I remember how bitter Dear Abby became after her divorce; she would regularly insist that divorce was the only option if the marriage had any problem at all even when it was clear that the person seeking advice wanted to work on the marriage. I've heard of people who are sexually attracted to inanimate objects like cars and buildings. I don't think my suggestions would work in those cases. But with two people who can think and feel I don't believe it's quite as hopeless as you have suggested. But again, if you have no desire to work on a relationship then my suggestions aren't relevant to you.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> There is no easy way to make sexually mismatched couples happy. What usually happens is the HD spouse does all the comprising while the LD spouse does little to nothing.


Or the HD leaves and finds happiness and more sex with someone else.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

DTO said:


> ......The truth is LD spouses overwhelmingly reject the HD spouse's sexual energy, not just the sex act itself. *Your typical LD spouse does not want to snuggle while the HD rubs one out, talk dirty, provide a dirty photo, etc. The LD typically gets worn out / overwhelmed by any sexual expression at a pace too far beyond their "capacity".*
> 
> Certainly, in my case my ex-wife did not want to acknowledge my sexuality in any way, shape, or form outside of her preferred rate. *If I had suggested she do those alternate activities I would been told some form of "I don't even want to do it the regular way with you. Why would I want to do THAT?" I think she is by far the norm for LDs in that regard*.


Good points.

What I learned when I was in a sex starved marriage was that my wife felt very bad about herself. All of the TV and magazine sex-based advertising made my wife feel like she was broken and a failure as a wife. My asking for sex or trying to initiate, just made her feel even worse.

Yes, asking to cuddle, holding me while I would masturbate, talking dirty to arouse me or doing non-PIV types of sex would just intensify her feelings of inadequacy. At the height or depth of my SSM, I thought about asking her to do non-sexual-sex things (chastity, denial, etc.) but I then realized that that such requests would have just made her feel worse, so I didn't. 

What ultimately turned my SSM around was that I discovered Chapmans 5 Languages of love and started to make my wife feel loved every day in her love languages. Then I changed myself via MW Davis SSM and Glovers NMMNG so I wasn't as needy and co-dependent. Finally with the help of a really good sex therapist we were able to rebuild our marriage and negotiate a HD/LD frequency that we could both live with.

I kind of feel like sex is a fragile fire that needs to have a safe and supporting environment to grow. I know that I failed to keep my wife emotionally happy for many years and that she responded in kind until our marriage was in crisis. It took a lot of effort to make her feel loved, happy and confident enough to engage in more frequent sex. The change stretched her to near a breaking point, so I see that the LD does put in a lot of effort to live in a compromised HD/LD marriage (as does the HD partner).


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I do not leave my wife alone. I show her constantly that I desire her sexually. She says I smother her with too much love. We have very different sex drives. My wife has a higher than average sex drive compared to other women. Yet, I wanted sex much more than she did because that is what I was used to before we married. Lived with a real life nympho before I met my wife. My wife had an unusual solution. She asked her best friend to have sex with me and then invited her to live with us. That took care of me but was not enough for her girlfriend who had sex with other guys besides me and my wife before she got married. Even then she got pregnant by one of three guys and none were her husband. I thought I was the wild one but my two ladies put me to shame. 

Not the way most wives behave but then again, until you get into that lifestyle you have no idea of what friends and neighbors, even family members, are doing with their sex lives. We were always surprised to find out who was not in a monogamous marriage. Our girlfriend for 30 years was a prim and proper school teacher by day and Bisexual Dominatrix/lover by night. Even after she married she continued to be our girlfriend because her husband had a low sex drive and was OK with her seeing us. I could never do what he did. Our best friends asked us to wife swap and we found out that they had been into that for many years despite having two kids. There is a whole different world out there that we discovered where people satisfy their sexual desires without having to first destroy the life they made with their spouse by divorcing them, as is the morally acceptable way to do it in our society of serial monogamous people.


The marriage police will find all of these non traditional marriages to be immoral at the very least. However if you can live to see your 50th wedding anniversary and still be very much in love, the heck of what others think. We refused to join the ranks of the sexually unfulfilled that are unhappy, cheat or get divorced as a result of different libidos. Our sexual wants were not the same either. My wife likes gentle love making like very extended foreplay which is why she likes sex with guys. She does not like penetration of any kind due to some medical issues she had in the past so women are perfect for her. On the other hand I like BDSM rough sex which our girlfriend provided me. It was the best of both worlds for all of us. Some to have tender lover making with and someone to go wild with.

Read this to get an idea of how a few of us viewed sex outside of marriage: Why My Husband & I Sometimes Have Sex With Other People - mindbodygreen

Our type of marriage is not for everyone and I am not trying to sell it because it can just as easily ruin a marriage as save it. It depends on the people involved and their ability to mentally handle it. However, some of the principals in the above article can be applied to a monogamous marriage too. We are monogamous now and we make sure that each other is sexually satisfied. My wife will have sex with me anytime I ask, but I know her needs are less than mine so we compromise. She flirts with me and teases me all the time but she waits before we have sex until I am bursting at the seams. We keep it fresh and alive even in our old age. Find what works for you and then do it your way.


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