# Together 30 years (and counting)



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Not your typical marriage. Not typical advice.

I'm new here and will probably be posting quite a few comments. If my beliefs and opinions don't fit yours, please respect the fact that we have different life journeys. Here's my story:

Throughout my childhood my mom's FIVE divorces convinced me to be extremely careful about who I marry so that I would never need to be concerned about divorce. To ensure that my marriage would last forever, I avoided rushing into long-term commitments. I drafted a checklist of traits that I wanted in a wife. Because I was determined to know that our marriage vows literally meant, "For better or worse, in sickness and in health, until death do we part," one of the most critical traits I sought in a wife was that she would be the type of person who would stick with me to the end of time. I want us to someday become one of those wrinkly cute couples still in love and enjoying 50th, 60th, or 70th anniversary celebration surrounded by grandkids.

After I graduated from college, I relocated for a job, dated a few girls, and got serious enough with one of them that I practically lived with her for the 3 1/2 years before we walked down the aisle. During that time, I found that she fulfilled most of the criteria on my wish-list in a spouse. (Not all... but most. Since she met some of the most important hard-to-find trait combinations on my list, I sacrificed the less important factors. Nobody is perfect. Decide your priorities carefully.)

Before we got married, we tried to share our marital hopes and expectations in advance. I told her that I wanted to either have TWO kids or NONE. I hoped to have them be born two years apart. She agreed. We crossed our fingers that they would be a boy and a girl, in that order.

A year after our wedding, I started working from home earning a decent income and paying the bills. She returned to college for a higher degree to advance her career as a medical professional.

Soon after I began working from home I realized that there really was no need for wearing clothes around the house. I mainly got dressed when we had to go somewhere -- the grocery store or whatever. When my wife asked me why I was naked so much, I asked her if it bothers her. She said, "It's fine with me. I like the scenery." We discussed it further and made it official. I was a full-time Naturist. She had one request. She said, "Because I don't feel comfortable about my own body or being nude around other people, all I ask is that when we go to nudist gatherings or resorts together, don't expect me to take my clothes off." The next day, she revised her request further. She encouraged me to start visiting nudist resorts and beaches without her. She apologetically asked that I let her stay home rather than expecting her to tag along to those places. What she ultimately explained was that she has her own weekend hobbies that she would rather pursue (gardening, restoring antique furniture, etc.) that don't require having her husband right there with her ALL the time. She had seen for herself that nudism is about as non-sexual as a trip to Walmart. She expected that I would enjoy myself and would be eternally grateful to her for it. Plus, since I was ALWAYS home, she would kinda like to occasionally have the house to herself.

After her graduation, she got a corporate job downtown. I continued to grow my business. Three years after we got married, we became parents. It was a girl. Although I had expected that my wife would either quit her job or switch to part-time to take care of baby #1 and future baby #2, it became apparent that she had neither the patience nor personality for staying home and taking care of young kids. She was a career girl. I saw that she would be awesome with teenagers and adults. But, if she felt trapped into dealing with kids younger than teenagers, she would go insane. Our kids would probably end up in therapy blaming a neurotic mother for all of their problems. This was a painful realization for me since I was planning to build a business while my wife ran the household. We each knew that I had a lot more patience than she did. Career assessments even showed that my personality was best suited for being a "stay-at-home parent". Since neither of us was willing to put our kids in daycare, we agreed that I should put my career on hold to become a 24/7 dad while she pursued a career that brought home a steady paycheck to pay the bills. Whatever money I could earn during kids' naps would be our "extra income".

We hoped that our second child would be born around two years after the first. It took five. We concluded with two girls born five years apart, and no sons. My wife got her tubes snipped. And, yes, having daughters rather than sons limited my ability to continue utilizing my wife's previous permission to live as a full-time Naturist. But, that's okay.

Fast-forward to today: Our oldest daughter finished college and entered grown-up life. Our youngest daughter is almost finished with high school and will soon be off to college. My wife and I are making plans for the "empty nest" chapters of our lives.

All of that being said, our love for each other has grown deeper over time. We are close and affectionate soulmates doing lots of hand-holding and cuddling. We have never had sex outside of our marriage. However, her libido faded into oblivion, especially when menopause hit. Plenty of love, but no sex. A couple of years ago she floated the suggestion that I get on apps for one-night-stands. The basic idea is that we would keep our love, marriage, and romance intact while I hook up with others interested in having sex as a purely recreational non-committal activity. I haven't explored her suggestion, but it's on my mind.

One of my top missions in life is for my wife to feel lucky to have me as her husband. We're sticking together. Meanwhile, neither of us wants her inability and disinterest in sex to plunge me into utter sexual starvation. So, what I'm envisioning for our future is that we will remain soulmates, married in every way EXCEPT for sex. Knowing her, I can imagine the following dialogue happening:

Husband: "Hey, Dear. Some married chick I met on Tinder wants to have a quickie, like... ASAP today. She said her husband is home and wants to watch. Should I go for it? They live 10-minutes away."

Wife: "As long as it's quick. The roast will be done around 5:30 and the movie starts at 7:00."

Husband: "Ya, if she looks anything like her profile picture, it should be quick. I sure do love you!"

Wife: "I love you, too, Dear. You'd better wrap that rascal!"

Husband: "My profile says 'No fluid swaps'. I've got extra condoms in case she wants to go an extra round, but I'll pull out just in case. I printed their address and phone number for you. I'll text you when I get there and when I finish. Are you sure you're okay with me doing this? I mean... our marriage? Us?"

Wife: "Don't worry. You have my heart and I have yours. As for your ****... I don't want it. What you do with that thing is none of my business. Seriously. Have a good time, babe. Don't catch germs and don't be late for dinner. Oh... for dessert, do you want apple pie or cookies?"

Husband: "I'd rather have YOU for dessert." [wink wink]

Wife: "Ha! Not gonna happen. Maybe you should do her husband, too." [LOL!]

Husband: [LOL!] "Pie sounds good. She said it's just a quickie. I'll probably be back within an hour or two. Do you want me to tell you all about it?"

Wife: "Nope. Sex is gross. Just have fun. And, appreciate the fact that your wife is satisfying your sexual needs even though I'm not the one you're having sex with."

Husband: "When I look into her eyes I'll imagine that she is you."

Wife: [laughs] "You're full of it. Don't keep her waiting." [Gives me a passionate smooch at the door with a hug and a squeeze on my butt] "Love you."

Husband: "Love you too! And, THANK YOU!"

Wife: "Tell them your wife thanks THEM."

I'm only mentioning this scenario and other private background information because that is what prompted me to look for marriage forums to read comments by and for other married couples. Other than knowing that my wife and I will probably never have sex again, our marriage and our relationship is great.


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## RebuildingMe

So you are in a sexless marriage, welcome to the boys club at TAM. Your wife is giving you a hall pass. Are you going to take it? It’s probably going to blow up in your face at some point and your marriage will go down the drain. Why don’t you divorce and remain best friends and parents to your girls?

Anyway, welcome to TAM.


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## snowbum

Good luck I guess. I do t know many if any women would actually be like “ hurry up with tonight’s banging session, they neighbors are coming over in 1/ 2 hour. “. I also don’t see how happy a wife would be sharing her husband but that’s me.


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## Affaircare

So let me summarize:

You have been the stay-at-home parent. Your children are leaving the nest, so now it's time for the two of you.

You are a natural nudist, and she's not there.

You have a sex-drive, and she does not.

The solution you believe the two of you have reached is for you periodically go have sex with another person or couple that the two of you discuss and agree to beforehand, and she doesn't have to ever have sex with you ever again. In other words, you get to keep your spouse and half your joint income--and she gets to keep her spouse and half her joint income--but you have sex casually with others and she doesn't have to be bothered with it.

That is not a conventional resolution, and I'm sure many people will come on here and say "it's cheating" or "it's morally wrong", etc. I'm not arguing ANY of that! I say what the two of you agree to together is your business.

I will note, however, that I suspect it will be fraught with unexpected issues--and here's why. What if YOU want to have sex with a certain person or couple, and she doesn't agree to it? What if you approach it from the point of view of "casual, FWB" but gradually grow feelings? What if you think the other person or couple is "casual, FWB" and THEY gradually build feelings for you? What if the other person or couple is "prettier" or "thinner" or "younger" than your wife--she already has body-issues about nudity, so that suggests body-issues about attractiveness? What happens when you want to spend more time with people you enjoy who enjoy you...and she doesn't want you to? 

Again--I'm not looking at the point of view of "right and wrong" (although I do have an opinion on that if you'd like to hear it). I'm looking at this from the point of view of "this may be more complicated than you think!" 

Also I want you to take off the rose-colored glasses about something: if your wife is sexually no-drive or repressed now...she sure as shootin' is not going to have a sexy discussion like what you suggested above! Think about something you DEEPLY dislike doing. Think about your wife going into any amount of detail about the thing you deeply dislike. Are you going to reply all flirty and enthusiastic about this activity? HECK NO! So your wife wouldn't be all teasing and descriptive about your activity either. It will more likely sound like this: "Would you shut up about the sex already? I'm not interested in that!"


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## snowbum

Do you ever have sex, or not enough sex. For instance is wife up for x2 times a week but you want x6?


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## snowbum

Divorce her and chat her up at the holidays and Sunday dinners. I think love faded without sec and you also can’t help bonding with sexual partners. Very unusual situation that I don’t see having the perfect ending you propose


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## Rob_1

To each its own. If you don't mind living with a lovely roommate in a sexless relationship that's your prerogative.

You will find out in these forums that there are so many in your same situation, but they don't mind, or don't have the balls and self respect to remain in a situation that they don't want but are too afraid to do anything.

You need to look within yourself and find what is it that you want and how to get it and just do it. Just don't look in your wife's direction, because that's a dead end.

Having a "hall pass" could work, but it's not for most due to emotions and feelings getting eventually involved.

If you feel that your marriage is that strong, then go ahead, but be forewarned.

You need to also take into consideration the possibility of how low in the totem you actually are for her, because most people are selfish enough to say if I don't him/her neither.


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## Andy1001

Here’s an opinion you didn’t expect. 
DNA your kids.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

RebuildingMe said:


> So you are in a sexless marriage, welcome to the boys club at TAM. Your wife is giving you a hall pass. Are you going to take it? It’s probably going to blow up in your face at some point and your marriage will go down the drain. Why don’t you divorce and remain best friends and parents to your girls?
> 
> Anyway, welcome to TAM.


Thanks for your reply.

For one thing, avoiding divorce runs so deep in me that can't fathom that ever happening. Ever! The reasons for us to stay married far outshine the fact that sex in our marriage is officially non-existent. If she gave me any indication that having sex with anybody outside of our marriage would lead to divorce, I would absolutely not have sex again for as long as I live. Marriage first. I don't want another relationship. I definitely don't want to get married again. Nor do I want to be "single". I'll follow her to the end of the earth.

I consider myself a very lucky guy to be married to such a brilliant, honest, and understanding woman. A couple of years after we started dating, for my birthday she surprised me with a 2-year subscription to Playboy magazine. Then, after we were married for a while and I found that I really liked Naturism, she gave me her blessing to make a hobby of visiting naturist resorts and gatherings without her. (As weird as it sounds, please understand that naturism & nudism are very non-sexual. It's about comfort and freedom. Whatever sexual energy and awkwardness exists while removing clothes in the presence of a bunch of nude people vanishes within 30 seconds. You'd have to experience it to understand.)

As for having sex with other people... and having been 100% monogamous for 30 years, I really am struggling with the concept of converting ours into an "open marriage" as a way to accommodate an asexual spouse. I'm open to input from others.

In my mind, there are numerous negatives attached to the concept of ever having sex with another woman. What my wife and I do has been rooted in true love. However, from a lifetime of privately partaking in SOLO gratification, I know I am quite capable of engaging in sex for entirely physical reasons. I'm not sure that women are nearly as capable of separating physical sex from emotional romance and weaving their nest.

What I'd like to have is a replacement for the sex that my wife an I used to have, and an entertaining alternative to the solo action that's starting to get rather old after 50 years of doing it alone.

I've got a lot of years ahead of me. I'm healthy, fit, lean, and have plenty of stamina in my sex drive. It's a shame that my wife's desire and ability is gone. But, it is what it is.

I should mention that my wife's "suggestion" was a passing comment that was partly intended to be a joke, and partly revealing what she knew was the truth. Marriage is a "forever" commitment. But, when a wife chooses to stop having sex for whatever reason, should the husband become celibate for the rest of his life? And, should a decline in her libido automatically be grounds for divorce?


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Andy1001 said:


> Here’s an opinion you didn’t expect.
> DNA your kids.


Funny! Your point is well-taken. If it was just about anyone but her, I might have been at least a little bit suspicious about her open permission. In our case, I can 100% guarantee without any doubt that she has never fooled around with anyone other than me after our first date.


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## Livvie

How old are you?

I think you are slightly delusional regarding finding women to have sex with that are going to be "good situations". 

Quality women aren't lining up to have sex with older men who are married.


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## RebuildingMe

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> For one thing, avoiding divorce runs so deep in me that can't fathom that ever happening. Ever! The reasons for us to stay married far outshine the fact that sex in our marriage is officially non-existent. If she gave me any indication that having sex with anybody outside of our marriage would lead to divorce, I would absolutely not have sex again for as long as I live. Marriage first. I don't want another relationship. I definitely don't want to get married again. Nor do I want to be "single". I'll follow her to the end of the earth.
> 
> I consider myself a very lucky guy to be married to such a brilliant, honest, and understanding woman. A couple of years after we started dating, for my birthday she surprised me with a 2-year subscription to Playboy magazine. Then, after we were married for a while and I found that I really liked Naturism, she gave me her blessing to make a hobby of visiting naturist resorts and gatherings without her. (As weird as it sounds, please understand that naturism & nudism are very non-sexual. It's about comfort and freedom. Whatever sexual energy and awkwardness exists while removing clothes in the presence of a bunch of nude people vanishes within 30 seconds. You'd have to experience it to understand.)
> 
> As for having sex with other people... and having been 100% monogamous for 30 years, I really am struggling with the concept of converting ours into an "open marriage" as a way to accommodate an asexual spouse. I'm open to input from others.
> 
> In my mind, there are numerous negatives attached to the concept of ever having sex with another woman. What my wife and I do has been rooted in true love. However, from a lifetime of privately partaking in SOLO gratification, I know I am quite capable of engaging in sex for entirely physical reasons. I'm not sure that women are nearly as capable of separating physical sex from emotional romance and weaving their nest.
> 
> What I'd like to have is a replacement for the sex that my wife an I used to have, and an entertaining alternative to the solo action that's starting to get rather old after 50 years of doing it alone.
> 
> I've got a lot of years ahead of me. I'm healthy, fit, lean, and have plenty of stamina in my sex drive. It's a shame that my wife's desire and ability is gone. But, it is what it is.
> 
> I should mention that my wife's "suggestion" was a passing comment that was partly intended to be a joke, and partly revealing what she knew was the truth. Marriage is a "forever" commitment. But, when a wife chooses to stop having sex for whatever reason, should the husband become celibate for the rest of his life? And, should a decline in her libido automatically be grounds for divorce?


So you wife wants to completely outsource sex in your marriage by offering subscriptions to porn magazines, trips by yourself to nudist resorts and other women (I assume prostitutes) to fulfill HER duties as a wife and your needs as a husband. Do you have housekeepers too? What about landscapers? Private tutors for your kids? How about chefs to prepare your meals? Private trainers? Yet you will go to the ends of the earth for this woman? She is “brilliant”? She sounds LAZY to me. I think you need to take the rose colored glasses off.


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## Rob_1

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Funny! Your point is well-taken. If it was just about anyone but her, I might have been at least a little bit suspicious about her open permission. In our case, I can 100% guarantee without any doubt that she has never fooled around with anyone other than me after our first date.


Hah...not that it applies tou your wife, but you're just as delusional as just about any other dude that comes here swearing to God almighty, that his wife is incapable of such thing, no way, no how, only to come back with their tail between their legs, because in their closed minded foolishness they couldn't conceive their wife doing such a thing. 

Actually, if I had bet everytime someone comes here and makes the same statement, I would be rich by now.

But in overall it goes with guys mentalities like yours. Closed to consideration to anything but what you already set in stones in your mind.

That's the pattern for the typical knight in shining armor falling on his own sword in order to save the lady. And that's fine for guys that want to be the sacrificial lamb. So no problem. 

Me, in the other hand..
I had sufficient self respect and dignity to leave. I didn't just wanted a wife, I wanted a lover and a partner. I wanted it all, not just one aspect of the relationship. I divorced my first wife, and in retrospect it was the best decision that I ever made. Now I have a woman that wanted me as her lover, not just as the nice guy that lives with her as her sweet, docile roommate with the occasional kiss in the cheek. 

Your wife is a lucky woman. She has it all, just the way she wants it. I wonder if all those years of you being the stay at home parent, and her daily interacting with all those alpha dudes in her corporate world somehow killed it for her after coming home to you and looking at you in all your nakedness.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Rob_1 said:


> To each its own. If you don't mind living with a lovely roommate in a sexless relationship that's your prerogative.
> 
> You will find out in these forums that there are so many in your same situation, but they don't mind, or don't have the balls and self respect to remain in a situation that they don't want but are too afraid to do anything.
> 
> You need to look within yourself and find what is it that you want and how to get it and just do it. Just don't look in your wife's direction, because that's a dead end.
> 
> Having a "hall pass" could work, but it's not for most due to emotions and feelings getting eventually involved.
> 
> If you feel that your marriage is that strong, then go ahead, but be forewarned.
> 
> You need to also take into consideration the possibility of how low in the totem you actually are for her, because most people are selfish enough to say if I don't him/her neither.



Hmm... From your reply, something occurred to me. Early in our marriage, she and I had a total reversal of stereotypical marriage roles. Traditionally, it's the wives who give up their careers to stay home and take care of the kids, cook the meals, clean the house, serve their husband, etc. As the kids grow up and the couple gets older, if or when some aspects of their marriage start falling apart and/or they stop having sex, the wife that sacrificed her career is in a bad spot, because without having a career, she has had no income, no Social Security, etc. Although the men dread paying child support and alimony, the financial aspect the divorce is financially ruinous to the wife, especially since her lack of work experience and gap in employment history makes it so much harder for her to get back into the workforce in a way that generates a decent income.

From a financially practical standpoint, that's very much where I'm at. To raise the kids and be the "house husband" (which was never what I wanted to do) I quit earning income a loooong time ago. Filing taxes jointly all these years, I've been seeing my wife's income, benefits, and retirement savings as OUR income, benefits, and retirement savings. She has been working full-time non-stop. Without her assets, I'm broke.

Still... that's the unemotionally financial side of life. However, above the underlying finances, we have plenty of reasons to stay together. We get along well. Meanwhile, I do feel like I OWE her for being an awesome wife. And, in terms of the sex, she feels like she owes me. So, that might be the compromise. We stay married and capitalize on all of the positive benefits of being married. The one exception is that we'll need to find a replacement for the sex that vanished with her youth.

Moving forward, we are trading places. As she approaches retirement, I feel as though my life's share of retirement has already been used up. It has been a good life. I'm shifting focus to my career. The plan is for me to resume working my butt off earning income while she exits the corporate world to do "fun jobs" that pay a lot less than the stressful work she does now.

As for the sex, I'm thinking that when a fuller conversation about that arises, we might view my need for sex merely as a form of casual recreation. The Naturism we discussed 25 years ago was the same way. It's not for her, but hey... "You enjoy it, so go do it!" There's no harm in that. It brings us closer together. I like mountain biking, too. Should I stop riding my mountain bike just because she doesn't?


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## bygone

If it was me

I'd like her to take tests, if it's a treatable problem, I'd continue to have sex with her.

I'd like a polygraph to see if she's in another relationship, even if it sounds ridiculous.

During my stay in open relationships, I would let her know that I would emotionally distance himself from her, perhaps developing feelings for someone else.

Partner seçimlerinde dikkatli olmalısınız, çok eşlilikte kontrolsüz ilişkileri olan kişilerde std riski çok yüksektir.

make a habit of doing regular tests


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## Diana7

You say that you don't ever want a divorce but having sex outside the marriage almost always results in bad consequences and often divorce anyway. 
Personally I think it's a terrible idea especially for a couple who have until recently valued faithfulness.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

RebuildingMe said:


> So you wife wants to completely outsource sex in your marriage by offering subscriptions to porn magazines, trips by yourself to nudist resorts and other women (I assume prostitutes) to fulfill HER duties as a wife and your needs as a husband. Do you have housekeepers too? What about landscapers? Private tutors for your kids? How about chefs to prepare your meals? Private trainers? Yet you will go to the ends of the earth for this woman? She is “brilliant”? She sounds LAZY to me. I think you need to take the rose colored glasses off.


I do appreciate the term, "outsource sex in your marriage". That's a fairly accurate description. We don't outsource the other stuff. That's all integrated into our life partnership. For her, beyond merely not "wanting" to have sex for the past umpteen years, menopause inflicted health issues that make her unable to do it without physical pain. I can't get aroused by pressuring her into doing something she doesn't want to do. When we've climbed in bed together with me feeling frisky and her not being in the mood... I'd be like, "Are you sure? [*sigh*] Welp. I'll be right back." My sex life has been 97% solo and 3% spouse. I consider myself lucky to not have the kind of wife who freaks out about her husband looking at porn.

On that note: When she was pregnant with our first daughter and was declared "High risk" to the point where we couldn't have sex, I told her that I needed to "take care of it". As I got up to leave for the bathroom, she called me back to the bed and said, "You don't need to leave. Do it here for me. I want to see."

So... I laid down next to her and did it. She was like, "Huh. Cool." She asked me a few questions and we were very matter-of-fact about it. I've not been secretive about anything. She spent most of our married life reading advice books about sex, and orgasms, and genuinely tried to find ways to learn to enjoy sex and to become great in bed. At her own suggestion, we've watched porn while having sex. None of it did much of anything for her. She just doesn't get it. Perhaps that's partly due to her being a medical professional. It's just "anatomy". Through her career she has probably had to handle as many penises as I've seen in real life. On a 1 to 10 scale with "5" being average, I'd say her inherent level of sexual desire is a "3", well below average among females. Adding strictly-medical exposure, aging, and a general lack of fitness to that equation and sex is best being outsourced to someone who would actually appreciate it.


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## snowbum

You believe in Aditya but not divorce. Got it


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## snowbum

Ic rather my husband be a good friend and leave than screw around and come home to let me know about it


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

bygone said:


> If it was me
> 
> I'd like her to take tests, if it's a treatable problem, I'd continue to have sex with her.
> 
> I'd like a polygraph to see if she's in another relationship, even if it sounds ridiculous.
> 
> During my stay in open relationships, I would let her know that I would emotionally distance himself from her, perhaps developing feelings for someone else.
> 
> Partner seçimlerinde dikkatli olmalısınız, çok eşlilikte kontrolsüz ilişkileri olan kişilerde std riski çok yüksektir.
> 
> make a habit of doing regular tests


Ya... that view is not for me. There is no suspicion whatsoever about her ever dabbling in another relationship. None. Nada. If you knew her, you'd agree. My confidence in ensuring that she was not the type of person to leave me for another guy was one of the top criteria in deciding to walk down the aisle with her and make the promise, "For better or worse, in sickness and in health, until death do we part". I've never broken a promise, and I won't break this one, even if it means I'll never get to have sex again.


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## BigDaddyNY

Why do you think she has no interest in trying to satisfy your sexual needs to the point she wants you to find someone else to do it? There are more ways to get sexual satisfaction than just PIV intercourse.

Has she made any attempt to consult with a medical professional to address hormonal issues that could be impacting her sex drive as well as pain during sex? If not it seems like the open marriage route is a bit premature and the lazy and "easy" way out.

Although you appear to be starting from a strong marriage, one of the generally accepted rules of opening a marriage is don't do it to fix a problem in your marriage. Open marriages can work, but it is a bit like navigating a minefield and one wrong step, BOOM! Unfortunately you don't know it until it is too late, because you can't undo having sex with someone outside of your marriage.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Livvie said:


> How old are you?
> 
> I think you are slightly delusional regarding finding women to have sex with that are going to be "good situations".
> 
> Quality women aren't lining up to have sex with older men who are married.


That's true. I'm in my 50s. Most women who are eager to have a quick fling with someone aren't likely to be "good situations". Yep. I get it. Point taken.

The movie "Fatal Attraction" comes to mind.

Sheesh. So much complexity in finding an alternative to solo masturbation.


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## BigDaddyNY

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> That's true. I'm in my 50s. Most women who are eager to have a quick fling with someone aren't likely to be "good situations". Yep. I get it. Point taken.
> 
> The movie "Fatal Attraction" comes to mind.
> 
> Sheesh. So much complexity in finding an alternative to solo masturbation.


Why does it have to be solo masturbation? Why can't you masturbate with your wife? Or have her give you manual or oral sex?


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

BigDaddyNY said:


> Why does it have to be solo masturbation? Why can't you masturbate with your wife? Or have her give you manual or oral sex?



The concern that drove me to search for forums was when she tried to help me out with a "handy". Physically, something more serious is happening to her health. She is seeing doctors about it but so far we don't know what it is. Even her hands aren't working well enough to do a HJ. Her attempt was actually what happened when she realized the problem. That discovery traumatized her. She's not "lazy" at all. I'm thinking that she would be glad to know that my sexual needs are being met without having to deal with something she thinks is "gross", and furthermore, makes her feel inadequate and afraid. Physically and psychologically, sex has become a negative thing for her. She has sought solutions. The solutions failed. She has no libido. I have plenty. Still... marriage is multi-faceted and our relationship has always been built upon so much more than sex.


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## Beach123

You can be as open minded as possible - but the fact is - your wife views sex as gross.
I think that is the heart of a big issue.
You want sex - she doesn’t want to give it.

so you get the green light to have sex with others…

is that correct?

I just don’t see this going well for your marriage - sorry to say - it just isn’t likely to go well, long term.

why haven’t you two addresses the real issue - which is - your wife thinks sex is gross!

hit that problem head on first. Was your wife sexually abused as a child? I’d bet money she was…

the other issue is - YOYR needs aren’t met within the marriage - and she is quick to pass her role of sex onto a complete stranger - in order to not please you herself. That should be a problem - for you… yet you are willing to just have “anyone satisfy that need”.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Affaircare said:


> So let me summarize:
> 
> You have been the stay-at-home parent. Your children are leaving the nest, so now it's time for the two of you.
> 
> You are a natural nudist, and she's not there.
> 
> You have a sex-drive, and she does not.
> 
> The solution you believe the two of you have reached is for you periodically go have sex with another person or couple that the two of you discuss and agree to beforehand, and she doesn't have to ever have sex with you ever again. In other words, you get to keep your spouse and half your joint income--and she gets to keep her spouse and half her joint income--but you have sex casually with others and she doesn't have to be bothered with it.
> 
> That is not a conventional resolution, and I'm sure many people will come on here and say "it's cheating" or "it's morally wrong", etc. I'm not arguing ANY of that! I say what the two of you agree to together is your business.
> 
> I will note, however, that I suspect it will be fraught with unexpected issues--and here's why. What if YOU want to have sex with a certain person or couple, and she doesn't agree to it? What if you approach it from the point of view of "casual, FWB" but gradually grow feelings? What if you think the other person or couple is "casual, FWB" and THEY gradually build feelings for you? What if the other person or couple is "prettier" or "thinner" or "younger" than your wife--she already has body-issues about nudity, so that suggests body-issues about attractiveness? What happens when you want to spend more time with people you enjoy who enjoy you...and she doesn't want you to?
> 
> Again--I'm not looking at the point of view of "right and wrong" (although I do have an opinion on that if you'd like to hear it). I'm looking at this from the point of view of "this may be more complicated than you think!"
> 
> Also I want you to take off the rose-colored glasses about something: if your wife is sexually no-drive or repressed now...she sure as shootin' is not going to have a sexy discussion like what you suggested above! Think about something you DEEPLY dislike doing. Think about your wife going into any amount of detail about the thing you deeply dislike. Are you going to reply all flirty and enthusiastic about this activity? HECK NO! So your wife wouldn't be all teasing and descriptive about your activity either. It will more likely sound like this: "Would you shut up about the sex already? I'm not interested in that!"



Thanks for the reply.

The hypothetical conversation I posted is the "ideal" hypothetical conversation. If she hadn't given me such explicit permission while we were newlyweds for me to go to naturist resorts without her, I might have more doubt about such a conversation being within the realm of possibility. It is possible.

Here's how her "suggestion" happened.

A couple of years ago we were at a family gathering in a room full of her relatives when her sister made a loud jokey remark, "How do you know YOUR husband isn't getting busy on Tinder?" My wife said, "I wouldn't care if he's on Tinder. He may as well screw around with someone. He sure isn't getting any from ME!" The room roared with laughter. It hurt because it's true. We love each other dearly, but she doesn't like sex. I miss getting to have sex with someone other than myself. It was her wisecrack comment that sparked ideas in my mind. If I found the right opening, I might just ask her whether having one-night stands every now and then would make our marriage even stronger. As outrageous as it sounds, and knowing her, she might actually think it's the well-deserved, right thing for me to do.


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## Rob_1

Well, if you're wife has medical issues that renders her physically unable to perform, and PIV would be painful, of course trying to coerce her into sex would be callous and too self serving. 

I would stand by my wife in this type of situation, regardless of no sex. How can a man have satisfaction during intercourse while watching his wife wriggling with pain.

If your wife is really all for you "outsourcing" sex, then that's a probability that can be explored, but with the standard warnings. 

If it is due to medical issues and you want to stand by your wife, no one can blame you or judge you. That's admirable. The problem to me is if it is just because she just decided that no more sex for her, and screw hubby.


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## RebuildingMe

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> The hypothetical conversation I posted is the "ideal" hypothetical conversation. If she hadn't given me such explicit permission while we were newlyweds for me to go to naturist resorts without her, I might have more doubt about such a conversation being within the realm of possibility. It is possible.
> 
> Here's how her "suggestion" happened.
> 
> A couple of years ago we were at a family gathering in a room full of her relatives when her sister made a loud jokey remark, "How do you know YOUR husband isn't getting busy on Tinder?" My wife said, "I wouldn't care if he's on Tinder. He may as well screw around with someone. He sure isn't getting any from ME!" The room roared with laughter. It hurt because it's true. We love each other dearly, but she doesn't like sex. I miss getting to have sex with someone other than myself. It was her wisecrack comment that sparked ideas in my mind. If I found the right opening, I might just ask her whether having one-night stands every now and then would make our marriage even stronger. As outrageous as it sounds, and knowing her, she might actually think it's the well-deserved, right thing for me to do.


Your marriage doesn’t sound strong at all. It sounds like a friendship and not much more. 

I wonder what state you are in. I wonder if she’s not setting a trap to bait you in to an affair so she can divorce your ass and use that to keep her money. Your kids are now gone and she’s been the breadwinner for decades. She might have lost respect for you a long time ago.


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## BigDaddyNY

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> The hypothetical conversation I posted is the "ideal" hypothetical conversation. If she hadn't given me such explicit permission while we were newlyweds for me to go to naturist resorts without her, I might have more doubt about such a conversation being within the realm of possibility. It is possible.
> 
> Here's how her "suggestion" happened.
> 
> A couple of years ago we were at a family gathering in a room full of her relatives when her sister made a loud jokey remark, "How do you know YOUR husband isn't getting busy on Tinder?" My wife said, "I wouldn't care if he's on Tinder. He may as well screw around with someone. He sure isn't getting any from ME!" The room roared with laughter. It hurt because it's true. We love each other dearly, but she doesn't like sex. I miss getting to have sex with someone other than myself. It was her wisecrack comment that sparked ideas in my mind. If I found the right opening, I might just ask her whether having one-night stands every now and then would make our marriage even stronger. As outrageous as it sounds, and knowing her, she might actually think it's the well-deserved, right thing for me to do.


That was a heartless, uncaring and disrespectful comment from your wife and I believe it is a small look at how she really feels about you.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

BigDaddyNY said:


> Why does it have to be solo masturbation? Why can't you masturbate with your wife? Or have her give you manual or oral sex?


#1) She has never masturbated. From books and talking to me about it, etc., she tried a few times but simply didn't get it. I think that's more tied to the low libido. 
#2) PIV sex is the only thing she can relate to. It's like she feels like alternatives are somehow "dirty" and unromantic. We've done it, but she doesn't like it.
#3) She doesn't like doing it manually, either. Same reasons as #2, but, to her, it seems so "medical". She might actually prefer to outsource it to someone else. After 30 years together, I'm sure I'm much to blame for her sexually detached view of manual orgasms. That's consistent with how I've explained masturbation to her. She gives me unrestricted "whatever" permission to do what I've gotta do for my ongoing prostate health. It's better to ejaculate 3x+ per week with some pleasure than to have to rely on manual prostate massages.


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## BigDaddyNY

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> #1) She has never masturbated. From books and talking to me about it, etc., she tried a few times but simply didn't get it. I think that's more tied to the low libido.
> #2) PIV sex is the only thing she can relate to. It's like she feels like alternatives are somehow "dirty" and unromantic. We've done it, but she doesn't like it.
> #3) She doesn't like doing it manually, either. Same reasons as #2, but, to her, it seems so "medical". She might actually prefer to outsource it to someone else. After 30 years together, I'm sure I'm much to blame for her sexually detached view of manual orgasms. That's consistent with how I've explained masturbation to her. She gives me unrestricted "whatever" permission to do what I've gotta do for my ongoing prostate health. It's better to ejaculate 3x+ per week with some pleasure than to have to rely on manual prostate massages.


This just sounds to me like she can't be bothered to help her husband. It is just a bunch of excuses about why she doesn't want to help satisfy your sexual needs.

And very magnanimous that she gave you permission to masturbate.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

RebuildingMe said:


> Your marriage doesn’t sound strong at all. It sounds like a friendship and not much more.
> 
> I wonder what state you are in. I wonder if she’s not setting a trap to bait you in to an affair so she can divorce your ass and use that to keep her money. Your kids are now gone and she’s been the breadwinner for decades. She might have lost respect for you a long time ago.


It's a "no-fault" state.

It's more than a "friendship". It's a marriage as "soulmates" and "life partners" sharing everything from assets to emotions. The one and only thing missing from the marriage is sex. Aside from generally not liking it, she is physically unable to do it. She has been quite frustrated by her low libido for many years. It's just not there.


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## RebuildingMe

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> #1) She has never masturbated. From books and talking to me about it, etc., she tried a few times but simply didn't get it. I think that's more tied to the low libido.
> #2) PIV sex is the only thing she can relate to. It's like she feels like alternatives are somehow "dirty" and unromantic. We've done it, but she doesn't like it.
> #3) She doesn't like doing it manually, either. Same reasons as #2, but, to her, it seems so "medical". She might actually prefer to outsource it to someone else. After 30 years together, I'm sure I'm much to blame for her sexually detached view of manual orgasms. That's consistent with how I've explained masturbation to her. She gives me unrestricted "whatever" permission to do what I've gotta do for my ongoing prostate health. It's better to ejaculate 3x+ per week with some pleasure than to have to rely on manual prostate massages.


Why do you keep making excuses for her? Now you’re taking blame?


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## BigDaddyNY

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> It's a "no-fault" state.
> 
> It's more than a "friendship". It's a marriage as "soulmates" and "life partners" sharing everything from assets to emotions. The one and only thing missing from the marriage is sex. Aside from generally not liking it, she is physically unable to do it. She has been quite frustrated by her low libido for many years. It's just not there.


You have a soulmate and life partner that thinks certain things are too "medical" or icky that she won't help you out and would rather you seek the assistance of strangers. That doesn't really sound like much of soulmate or life partner to me. There isn't anything I wouldn't do for my wife and if I were capable I would do it myself before I turned it over to someone else. This isn't something that requires a specialized degree or special skills. She is capable of meeting your needs, but chooses not to. Is there anything you wouldn't do for your wife? I get the impression the answer is no, you would do anything to make your wife happy.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

BigDaddyNY said:


> This just sounds to me like she can't be bothered to help her husband. It is just a bunch of excuses about why she doesn't want to help satisfy your sexual needs.
> 
> And very magnanimous that she gave you permission to masturbate.


This forum discussion is taking quite a turn. I guess my original post was more about "open marriages" for strictly casual sex. Most readers are suggesting that 1) she isn't living up to her end of the marital agreement, 2) and that I wouldn't be living up to MY end of the marital agreement if I did anything sexual with anyone else, and 3 it sounds like a bad marriage headed for divorce.

I'm still listening. Just not convinced that making my end of the marriage become "open" for extramarital ejaculatory needs is unreasonable. The one reader's comment about people in their 50s being able to find anyone else to do such things is quite sobering. The thought of finding myself face-to-face with some skank in a musty apartment doesn't sound like an arousing scenario.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

BigDaddyNY said:


> You have a soulmate and life partner that thinks certain things are too "medical" or icky that she won't help you out and would rather you seek the assistance of strangers. That doesn't really sound like much of soulmate or life partner to me. There isn't anything I wouldn't do for my wife and if I were capable I would do it myself before I turned it over to someone else. This isn't something that requires a specialized degree or special skills. She is capable of meeting your needs, but chooses not to. Is there anything you wouldn't do for your wife? I get the impression the answer is no, you would do anything to make your wife happy.



Knowing that she doesn't enjoy it, doesn't like it, I don't want to pressure her to do something she doesn't want to do. If she is actually in the mood, that's awesome! Go for it.

That being said, while chatting with good friends of ours before we got married, my buddy and I spoke up and told our soon-to-be wives that we totally believe that marriage is "for life" and that it is a CONTRACT that obligates each partner to ensure that their partner's sexual needs are met. Every now and then, you can say, "No" because of a headache or whatever, but that's just for temporary practical circumstances. Wedding vows are spoken out loud in front of two families and circles of friends, and written into a contract. They are unbreakable. There is no divorce. What's unwritten but implied is that you will not unreasonably withhold sex from your spouse.

Being in an (all-too-common) position where sex with my post-menopausal spouse no longer feasible for both psychological and medical reasons, I'm contemplating amending the definition of fulfilling sexual needs to mean making an agreement to "outsource" it to someone else.

The odds of ever finding someone who's sexually attractive, interested and available for sexual gratification without strings attached (or STDs or a pimp) seem quite low.

At this point, it's all hypothetical chit-chat.


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## BigDaddyNY

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> This forum discussion is taking quite a turn. I guess my original post was more about "open marriages" for strictly casual sex. Most readers are suggesting that 1) she isn't living up to her end of the marital agreement, 2) and that I wouldn't be living up to MY end of the marital agreement if I did anything sexual with anyone else, and 3 it sounds like a bad marriage headed for divorce.
> 
> I'm still listening. Just not convinced that making my end of the marriage become "open" for extramarital ejaculatory needs is unreasonable. The one reader's comment about people in their 50s being able to find anyone else to do such things is quite sobering. The thought of finding myself face-to-face with some skank in a musty apartment doesn't sound like an arousing scenario.


You don't always get what you expect when you come to TAM.

Also, the number of people here with successful open marriages is extremely small and you are FAR from the first to come here talking about it. In almost every instance it goes badly.

And yeah, you will likely need to be paying for your extramarital encounters. It isn't like women are lining up to have NSA sex with a 50 year old on a whim. If anything you would likely need to build some kind of relationship, even if superficial, before they would agree to sex. If you use something like Tinder you would at least need to chat them up first. Is that something you and your wife are confortable with?


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## BigDaddyNY

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Knowing that she doesn't enjoy it, doesn't like it, I don't want to pressure her to do something she doesn't want to do. If she is actually in the mood, that's awesome! Go for it.
> 
> That being said, while chatting with good friends of ours before we got married, my buddy and I spoke up and told our soon-to-be wives that we totally believe that marriage is "for life" and that it is a CONTRACT that obligates each partner to ensure that their partner's sexual needs are met. Every now and then, you can say, "No" because of a headache or whatever, but that's just for temporary practical circumstances. Wedding vows are spoken out loud in front of two families and circles of friends, and written into a contract. They are unbreakable. There is no divorce. What's unwritten but implied is that you will not unreasonably withhold sex from your spouse.
> 
> Being in an (all-too-common) position where sex with my post-menopausal spouse no longer feasible for both psychological and medical reasons, I'm contemplating amending the definition of fulfilling sexual needs to mean making an agreement to "outsource" it to someone else.
> 
> The odds of ever finding someone who's sexually attractive, interested and available for sexual gratification without strings attached (or STDs or a pimp) seem quite low.
> 
> At this point, it's all hypothetical chit-chat.


I think you are barking up the wrong tree. I think you need to be working on this with your wife, not looking for sex outside the marriage. If she is as good a wife as you suggest she should want to help you. It sounds to me more like she is blowing you/the issue off by suggesting finding sex elsewhere. Are you sure she even really means it when she says to go find it elsewhere? I wonder how she would react when you tell her the first time you have a "date".


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

snowbum said:


> Good luck I guess. I do t know many if any women would actually be like “ hurry up with tonight’s banging session, they neighbors are coming over in 1/ 2 hour. “. I also don’t see how happy a wife would be sharing her husband but that’s me.



I don't know any women who would consider such a thing, either. She is very unique. That's part of my attraction to her.

We do have a strong relationship. We are working on our retirement plans for things we'll do, places we'll go, etc. Soulmates. Yes, it is like a friendship, but much more. However, she never really LIKED sex, doesn't want sex, and now she physically can't have sex, which means I can't have sex either unless I get it from someone other than her or myself. Under these circumstances, she might consider it a reasonable solution to resolving my body's physiological ejaculatory needs. I think she realizes that it's unreasonable and unfair to render me sexless for the rest of my life. She wants to keep me around, and I don't ever want to lose her. But, sexual needs? Anything beyond porn will have to come from a source external to our marriage.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

BigDaddyNY said:


> You don't always get what you expect when you come to TAM.
> 
> Also, the number of people here with successful open marriages is extremely small and you are FAR from the first to come here talking about it. In almost every instance it goes badly.
> 
> And yeah, you will likely need to be paying for your extramarital encounters. It isn't like women are lining up to have NSA sex with a 50 year old on a whim. If anything you would likely need to build some kind of relationship, even if superficial, before they would agree to sex. If you use something like Tinder you would at least need to chat them up first. Is that something you and your wife are confortable with?



I don't know. Tinder was her suggestion but in a joking situation. However, I know her well enough to read that she meant what she said. She basically said that since I'm not "getting any" from her, I may as well get on Tinder to get some action from someone else.

My ability to "score" on a place like Tinder are probably better than average for my age. No beer gut. Athletic build, etc.

Still... Even though I'm a reasonably horny guy, I'm not willing to put our marriage at risk.

So far, I have not read about "open relationships" at all. I didn't really have the lingo for tagging it when I wrote my post. I have to leave the PC now, but will take some time to search TAM about the topic to see what others' experiences with it have been like. What I've seen so far are mostly BOTH partners agreeing to sleep around. I haven't seen cases yet where a WIFE told her HUSBAND she wants to keep the marriage magic alive, but without having sex anymore, and, therefore, invites him to look for other people that he can have completely unromantic sex with as a way of strengthening their marital relationship.


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## snowbum

If he pissed if the man I squirted spent money for cheap sex. You really don’t sound like spouses, you sound like buddies or brother and sister.
Also, what if you want to hook on a night your wife eats you home? Which will be more important. I just see the idea of getting it on with a stranger as very sad.


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## snowbum

You chose life partner poorly when you chose o e who hates sex


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## BigDaddyNY

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> I don't know. Tinder was her suggestion but in a joking situation. However, I know her well enough to read that she meant what she said. She basically said that since I'm not "getting any" from her, I may as well get on Tinder to get some action from someone else.
> 
> My ability to "score" on a place like Tinder are probably better than average for my age. No beer gut. Athletic build, etc.
> 
> Still... Even though I'm a reasonably horny guy, I'm not willing to put our marriage at risk.
> 
> So far, I have not read about "open relationships" at all. I didn't really have the lingo for tagging it when I wrote my post. I have to leave the PC now, but will take some time to search TAM about the topic to see what others' experiences with it have been like. What I've seen so far are mostly BOTH partners agreeing to sleep around. I haven't seen cases yet where a WIFE told her HUSBAND she wants to keep the marriage magic alive, but without having sex anymore, and, therefore, invites him to look for other people that he can have completely unromantic sex with as a way of strengthening their marital relationship.


Have you actually had a real and direct discussion with her about this or are you just going off of her comment at the party where she said he isn't getting any from her?


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## TexasMom1216

I am toying with a similar idea for my marriage, but I do believe that the major misconception you have is that this will strengthen your marriage. It will not. The conversation you imagine is unicorns-made-of-chocolate level delusional. Your marriage might survive it, after a fashion, but it won’t be a romantic relationship any more, IMHO.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think you are barking up the wrong tree. I think you need to be working on this with your wife, not looking for sex outside the marriage. If she is as good a wife as you suggest she should want to help you. It sounds to me more like she is blowing you/the issue off by suggesting finding sex elsewhere. Are you sure she even really means it when she says to go find it elsewhere? I wonder how she would react when you tell her the first time you have a "date".



Gawd! I don't want to "date" anyone. I can't fathom "romance" with anyone other than my wife. Not wanting strings. No drama. Just pondering the feasibility of searching for substitutes for the spousal sex that's no longer available, and an alternative to self-pleasure.


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## BigDaddyNY

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Gawd! I don't want to "date" anyone. I can't fathom "romance" with anyone other than my wife. Not wanting strings. No drama. Just pondering the feasibility of searching for substitutes for the spousal sex that's no longer available, and an alternative to self-pleasure.


They make some very realistic sex dolls these day.


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## RebuildingMe

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Gawd! I don't want to "date" anyone. I can't fathom "romance" with anyone other than my wife. Not wanting strings. No drama. Just pondering the feasibility of searching for substitutes for the spousal sex that's no longer available, and an alternative to self-pleasure.


That’s what hookers are for. Go to a strip club and hit the back room. Use wife’s credit card. Problem solved.


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## BigDaddyNY

TexasMom1216 said:


> I am toying with a similar idea for my marriage, but I do believe that the major misconception you have is that this will strengthen your marriage. It will not. The conversation you imagine is unicorns-made-of-chocolate level delusional. Your marriage might survive it, after a fashion, but it won’t be a romantic relationship any more, IMHO.


I hope you aren't serious about considering this.


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## Works

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Gawd! I don't want to "date" anyone. I can't fathom "romance" with anyone other than my wife. Not wanting strings. No drama. Just pondering the feasibility of searching for substitutes for the spousal sex that's no longer available, and an alternative to self-pleasure.


You can always pay a visit to an adult store and buy one of those molds of a porn stars private region.. We have one here called Hustlers. 

NSA, no STD, no dates, no drama... and technically not cheating on your wife and your 30 year marriage will continue. Not trying to be a smart mouth by any means... You seem to not want to "step out" of the marriage, yet, IN the marriage you're not truly satisfied when it comes to sex... I read your reasons, hence my above suggestion.


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## TexasMom1216

BigDaddyNY said:


> I hope you aren't serious about considering this.


It would be for him to go outside the marriage, not me. No worries. But I’m not gonna want to hear any details and I’m sure not following anything close to the script the OP is imagining. I’m sure his wife is really cool but the woman he describes doesn’t exist.😂


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

BigDaddyNY said:


> Have you actually had a real and direct discussion with her about this or are you just going off of her comment at the party where she said he isn't getting any from her?


So far, it's hypothetical. She brought it up, but I know her well enough to know that underneath it, she kinda meant it, although she hasn't put a ton of thought into it herself.

Most couples would throw the whole concept as preposterous. Bear in mind that this is a woman who went into marriage giving me a subscription to Playboy and later gave me untethered permission to attend naturist resorts without her. She trusts me becasue she knows that I can be trusted. Before we got married, I specifically told her that marrying her is not a promise that I will never have sex with other women. I told her that our marriage is a promise that I will never have sex with other women WITHOUT HER PERMISSION. I said that so many newlyweds walk down the aisle promising to be 100% monogamous with their new spouse, yet end up having affairs and splitting up because of the breach of trust. I said that it would be naive to claim that our sex life will always be strong and will always be laser-focused on our partners. After 5 years, 10 years, or 30 years, things might change. Either one partner loses sexual interest in the other, or they want to "spice things up" with some adventure by having a 3-some... who knows? I said that I know who I am today (back when I was in my mid-20s), but have not met the "future me" as a 40, 50, or 60 year old. I said, "My vow to you as we walk down that aisle is a vow of HONESTY. You will NEVER need to wonder if I'm seeing someone else or screwing around behind your back." I said, "If I ever want to do such a thing, I will talk to you about it first and give you first right of refusal. What I will not do is breach your trust. I will not divorce you. If a time comes that the 'future me' is seriously considering screwing around with someone else, you will know about it, because I will ask for your permission first."

I haven't even considered doing anything with anyone else in the 30 years that we've been together.

Honestly, I don't want to. I'd rather keep my sex life focused on her. It's just no longer feasible.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Works said:


> You can always pay a visit to an adult store and buy one of those molds of a porn stars private region.. We have one here called Hustlers.
> 
> NSA, no STD, no dates, no drama... and technically not cheating on your wife and your 30 year marriage will continue. Not trying to be a smart mouth by any means... You seem to not want to "step out" of the marriage, yet, IN the marriage you're not truly satisfied when it comes to sex... I read your reasons, hence my above suggestion.


That's a very fair suggestion. It's "safe sex". I just might look into that.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

TexasMom1216 said:


> It would be for him to go outside the marriage, not me. No worries. But I’m not gonna want to hear any details and I’m sure not following anything close to the script the OP is imagining. I’m sure his wife is really cool but the woman he describes doesn’t exist.😂



She does exist. We haven't had a complete discussion about it yet. Understanding the benefits and pitfalls is part of why I'm posting the scenario here on TAM.


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## BigDaddyNY

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> She does exist. We haven't had a complete discussion about it yet. Understanding the benefits and pitfalls is part of why I'm posting the scenario here on TAM.


I'm gonna bet that she will not go for it once it starts to become a reality, not an off the cuff comment.


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## snowbum

What if she refuses and says no?


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## snowbum

What does your wife get out of this marriage? From your accounting she works her a off? You stay home go to nude events enjoying porn. You also said not only would you probably want to bang others but you’d be noble and fill her in , wtf? This is so bizarre


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

TexasMom1216 said:


> I am toying with a similar idea for my marriage, but I do believe that the major misconception you have is that this will strengthen your marriage. It will not. The conversation you imagine is unicorns-made-of-chocolate level delusional. Your marriage might survive it, after a fashion, but it won’t be a romantic relationship any more, IMHO.



Maybe. My own conception is that it would make ME love her even more. Like, when she bought me that Playboy subscription, I was thinking, "Dang! What a GREAT girlfriend this is!" After we got married and she told me I could go to Naturist resorts without her and was apologetic about the fact that she would rather stay home... I knew I had a winner! I was thinking... "Wow! My wife just gave me permission to take weekends off without her to be naked with a bunch of other naked people!" Others here have said they are suspicious of HER intentions, but I know her well enough that there was nothing "sexual" about her intentions behind getting me out of the house a few times per year. I already knew that she was bordering on being "asexual". An "affair would never happen.

I haven't ruled out the "Tinder profile" concept yet. Her "asexual" view of sex she possesses nowadays is that she has no strong emotions or jealousy connections to the concept. I can imagine her saying, 'Babe, I love you. It's just like the nudism thing. If you want to do it, do it. You only live once. But, keep it in Vegas. I don't need to hear about it."


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

*


HouseDad-NestEmpty said:



I'm not sure that women are nearly as capable of separating physical sex from emotional romance and weaving their nest.

Click to expand...

*LOL.

You really HAVE been out of the mating game for 30 years, haven't you?

I think I can say with a fair amount of certainty that most women don't really want to 'feather their nests' with a married, stay-at-home-dad; more so, many are perfectly happy being friends with benefits and don't want to deal with men when they're done with them. 😋 😋


----------



## snowbum

I think you might be delusional


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

snowbum said:


> _*What does your wife get out of this marriage? From your accounting she works her a off? You stay home go to nude events enjoying porn. You also said not only would you probably want to bang others but you’d be noble and fill her in , wtf? This is so bizarre*_



She's a lucky lady, isn't she? She gets to support a guy who doesn't work but likes to air his junk at nude events. 

Epic.

I'm starting to think it's time to get my popcorn out....


----------



## TexasMom1216

snowbum said:


> *What does your wife get out of this marriage?* From your accounting she works her a off? You stay home go to nude events enjoying porn. You also said not only would you probably want to bang others but you’d be noble and fill her in , wtf? This is so bizarre


Doesn’t sound like a great deal for her. More and more it sounds like it should start with “Dear Penthouse, I never thought I’d write a letter like this…” 😂


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

*


HouseDad-NestEmpty said:



The movie "Fatal Attraction" comes to mind.

Click to expand...

*Goin' way out on a limb here, but I'm willing to bet my right arm that you don't look anything like Michael Douglas, so you probably don't need to worry about coming home to find your bunny being boiled on the stove.


----------



## Affaircare

So @HouseDad-NestEmpty, for context I am a 60yo female person. I would say I'm a semi-nudist in that I don't feel bound to fabric in or outside the house, but I'm not an exhibitionist, so I just like the feel of the air (or water) on my skin when I'm private enough to feel alone. I've been to nudist ... places, and I completely understand they are not sexual AT ALL. Really, to me, it felt so much more like this: 'They are just bodies people! We all have them! They all have scars or bumps or tattoos or whatnot, and let's just quit covering them and be normal about normal bodies'. 

Thus, if your wife understands that nudity/naturism is not sexual, then the fact that she'd say "Go to the nudist camp on your own without me" is not related to sex or sexuality at all. It's the equivalent of saying "Go to the rodeo without me...I don't like horses" or "Go to the carshow with the guys--I can't tell an alternator from a radiator." See what I mean? It's not sexual at all and it is just her way of saying "Go do your hobby; I'm not into your hobby."

But to leap from that to allowing her husband to share his body and sexual pleasure with another person or couple...to me that's a huge leap!!! People have been known to joke about that to an extent, and it does sound like she's aware that she's not willing to give it and that is patently unfair to force you into celibacy--but that's still a far cry from agreeing to let you outsource your sexual pleasure! Look, to many, many female people the order is that you care about someone and because you care...you have sex. Yes, of course, there are women sex-workers and women who are able to compartmentalize the physiology of sex and the intimacy of sex. BUT (and it's a big but), the question before you is if your wife is willing to share HER intimacy with you...with another person or couple. 

To my mind that is a huge leap. 

Intimacy is not just getting each other off orgasmically. Intimacy is sharing--opening up--being vulnerable. Do you truly think she wants you being open and vulnerable with another female person, male person, or couple? Even if it's just PHYSICAL openness and vulnerability, that is something you promised to share with only her, and yet somehow you are assuming she would enthusiastically agree "Oh yeah, you go ahead and be sexually intimate with someone other than me." 

Shoot she may even think that she might be okay with it--like "Yeah, I think I'd be alright with that idea". Then if you did find someone who was kind of your age, not prettier than her, not skinnier than her, and willing to just have FWB sex...what do you do if the night you're all set to meet up with said other person (OP)...she freaks out and says she can't do it? 

And what if she CAN do it? What will that do to you knowing that the woman you love and cherish and adore and admire...is willing to just pass you along to another person to get your jollies as long as she doesn't have to deal with it? Short term it might feel great to finally have orgasm after being touched by someone, but long term, think about where that puts you. A stranger is willing to do things to you and with you, that the woman who supposedly means so much to you after years of togetherness...won't and can't do. 

Look, again, I'm 60yo. I get it. Some things change as we age. Things hurt that didn't use to hurt. Things are drier. Things are thinner. Nerves are less sensitive. Stamina may be diminished. Whatever--it's not the same. But that is exactly life: change. Things CHANGE. What if the point of this time of life isn't sex like bunnies when we were 20yo but rather more tantric sex? Or more emotional sex? Or more spiritual sex? See what I mean? Maybe the focus just changes from physical sexuality to a more mature, intimate, spiritual sexuality. Did you ever think to explore those kinds of avenues? 

I'll just conclude by saying that unless your wife has come right out and said, "I've thought about it and I think it would be wise to outsource sex so you can be with another person or couple" I very highly doubt she means it or would want it. She might "go along" with it because she doesn't want to have sex and doesn't want to be viewed as a prude...but I would strongly suspect it will put a GIANT dent in your marriage. I don't know that for a certainty. There are a few people in this world who have strong enough self-esteem to open their marriages in that way. I will say this: I dearly love my husband and have a pretty darn open mind about these things, and I jealously want him for my own. My self-esteem would say that I love myself more than to share what is mine with another.


----------



## Beach123

Why doesn’t your wife like sex with you? Be specific.
Was she sexually abused as a child?


----------



## jlg07

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> My wife said, "I wouldn't care if he's on Tinder. He may as well screw around with someone. He sure isn't getting any from ME!" The room roared with laughter. It hurt because it's true. We love each other dearly, but she doesn't like sex.


Actually to ME, her comment screams disrespect.
It's not "I HATE sex, so I'd be happy if he was on tinder". It's "NO WAY am I having sex with HIM". I bet most people if not all interpreted it the second way....

Your original "talk" with your wife -- yeah, I don't see that AT ALL unless your wife is 1 in 100 million that would actually agree with you having sex outside the marriage with NO repercussions at all. Of course, it also allows HER to pursue outside interests. You may THINK she has no libido, until she sees that new hot young Dr and things start up...


----------



## jlg07

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> that it is a CONTRACT that obligates each partner to ensure that their partner's sexual needs are met.


So what you are saying is that SHE has broken the contract.... Think about it.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

jlg07 said:


> So what you are saying is that SHE has broken the contract.... Think about it.


Yes, but, to me, the rest of the person she is makes her well worth holding onto even without sex.


----------



## Beach123

I understand you love her… but part and parcel of HER loving you is providing with your needs met.
It seems she doesn’t intend to meet this part of your needs.
I’m all for being compatible - but I don’t think you’re being as honest here as you possibly can. The fact that she doesn’t intend to participate in a huge area of your married life together shows evidence that some things are terribly wrong - and you haven’t stated that you two have done professional counseling to address what her road block/issues may be.

please expand with honesty what this looks like. Each time I’ve asked specifically - you’ve avoided answering.


----------



## RebuildingMe

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Yes, but, to me, the rest of the person she is makes her well worth holding onto even without sex.


You might want to get on the internet and start researching how to get your man card back. Your “soulmate” has emasculated you into a masturbating stay at home nudist.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

snowbum said:


> Do you ever have sex, or not enough sex. For instance is wife up for x2 times a week but you want x6?



When she was trying to get pregnant we did it between 4x to 6x per week and I avoided solo sessions. That was great!

After our final child was born, the "job" she was trying to accomplish was done and she really lost interest. For the first few years, we did it around 3x per month while I wanked between 4x to 10x per week.

For the past 5 years, we've only been doing it around 1x to 3x per YEAR.

At some point, we were laying in bed cuddling naked and I moved her hand to my parts. She acted frustrated in thinking that I was expecting to have PIV intercourse. I said, "Just with your hand."

She did the job and I was thrilled. She seemed disgusted and a little embarrassed. I told her, "Thank you! That was great!"

She said, "You thought that was GREAT? I just used my HAND!"

I said, "It was so much better than using MY OWN."

About a year ago I had a few days when I got too busy to relieve myself. As she and I were standing there talking I was feeling uncomfortable ache in my prostate. I told her that it was hurting "down there" from not getting relief in a while. She asked, "So... how often do you do it?" We had been together for 28 years and she never asked. I thought about it, and knowing that it varies quite a bit, I was hesitating while trying to tabulate the usual frequency in my mind. She said, "Do you do it every day?" I thought about it and was like, "Yeah. Almost every day, except when I'm too busy to do it." 

She shook her head and went, "Gawd."

It goes back to how she was raised. She just can't comprehend or relate to the concept of masturbation or orgasms for pleasure's sake. Also, she has what I call, "Arousal amnesia." It's weird. Throughout our relationship, every time that she was highly aroused and the lovemaking was truly amazing, she couldn't remember any of the details afterward. It's like she was drunk with hormones. We don't drink. She could barely remember anything about the period of time that she was in a "hot state". I would vividly remember every detail and could easily replay it in my mind. So, I think that part of her psychological hangup is that her brain systematically failed to capture or retain all of the greatest sexual experiences she ever had.

Back on the topic of her being surprised and disturbed by me telling her that I usually wank several times per week, I explained the physiology. I told her that male reproductive organs are almost like the bladder. They're continuously filling up with fluid. When they get too full, you feel pressure down there, and there's only one way to release it. Although it can gradually start reabsorbing the excess fluid, you go through a fair amount of discomfort before it does that. When you don't "depressurize", not only is it physically uncomfortable, it pumps the "need to breed" chemicals into the bloodstream. It's harder to concentrate. You get "on edge". You get horny. It's a motivation designed by evolution.

Ideally, I would want to do it with her 3x per week + 1x solo. If "solo" is all I can get, I'm inclined to do it between 5x to 8x per week. Actual intercourse is more satisfying. Plus, it takes a whole lot more effort.

As of a few weeks ago, the frequency with my wife was officially determined to be ZERO from that point forward. I'm a health nut and have been staying physically fit. She has not. It's taking its toll and her body hurts too much. Now, she's getting arthritis and other ailments. She can't even give a HJ. From now on, sex-wise, it's quite apparent that I'm totally on my own. My relatives live into their 90s & 100s. I've probably got at least 30 years' worth of sex left in me. That seems like a loooong time to live in forced celibacy.


----------



## Beach123

Your wife, honestly, looks selfish.
And you’ll need to figure out how to scale back “on your need”. Basically because she says she isn’t participating.

you call it a great marriage - but I disagree. Great marriages don’t look this way.

great marriages compromise and find ways to meet the other’s needs. She isn’t doing that.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Beach123 said:


> I understand you love her… but part and parcel of HER loving you is providing with your needs met.
> It seems she doesn’t intend to meet this part of your needs.
> I’m all for being compatible - but I don’t think you’re being as honest here as you possibly can. The fact that she doesn’t intend to participate in a huge area of your married life together shows evidence that some things are terribly wrong - and you haven’t stated that you two have done professional counseling to address what her road block/issues may be.
> 
> please expand with honesty what this looks like. Each time I’ve asked specifically - you’ve avoided answering.



There's sincerity in your advice. Thank you.

It's true that my wife and I have not gone through professional counseling. We have read books, talked to each other about it, and spoken to friends. My gut feel is that marital counseling could help us with other aspects of our relationship, but it won't result in her being willing or able to start having sex again, especially since the problems now are physical. Part of why I'm thinking that she meant what she said about, "he may as well get on Tinder" might be valid is that it might actually 

On the counseling topic, being honest with myself, facing a counselor does scare me. Being a house-dad for so many years deraied my career. I'm working now to get it back on track, but for now, my income sucks. What's worse is that although she earns decent paychecks, right now, the company she works for made changes that resulted in her job being a living hell. She wants to quit, but she can't afford to give her notice because I'm not earning enough nearly enough money to make that possible and pay the bills. It may be another year or two before I get my career stabilized. Even then, it's highly unlikely that I will ever achieve even sixy percent of her current income. Although that is a very deep problem, I don't think it has anything to do with the lack of sex. She just doesn't like sex. Getting a woman who has always had a below-average libido to start liking sex in her 50s is not likely to happen.

I should mention that in the years after she gave me "carte blanch" to go to naturist resorts without her, I went to two local back-yard nudist gatherings but discovered that too many of the people there were way too weird. Each time I went, I came home and told her I had fun and enjoyed getting to skinnydip in their pool, but wasn't thrilled with some of the people I met. That last time I went, I told her that I was sorely disappointed that a couple of the people turned out to be kinda creepy -- not be the kind of folks that I want to associate with. That was 20 years ago. I haven't gone back. I mainly mentioned it here because it reveals that she is the kind of person who really does want to make me happy. And, now that the kids have grown up, I'm thinking about giving naturism another chance.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Beach123 said:


> Your wife, honestly, looks selfish.
> And you’ll need to figure out how to scale back “on your need”. Basically because she says she isn’t participating.
> 
> you call it a great marriage - but I disagree. Great marriages don’t look this way.
> 
> great marriages compromise and find ways to meet the other’s needs. She isn’t doing that.



Back in the fictitious dialogue where she's giving permission to go have a "quickie", that was intended to illustrate a compromise to meet my needs. She doesn't like sex, doesn't want sex, and now can't even HAVE sex without it being painful. So, the underlying idea is that we would stick together as a happily married couple that's very loving, affectionate, and romantic, but doesn't have sex. She would be much happier knowing that she doesn't have to do something she considers a "chore", and maybe I would be happier by finding others who only want casual sex without romance or dealing with a relationship. 

I don't know if it would work. I'm thinking that I might need to browse stories about "open marriages". I have yet to see one that fits the description I laid out.


----------



## Beach123

Well I wish you luck. I really do.

i do think it’s going to become difficult for you to NOT get attached to a woman providing you the sex you need.

there are plenty of threads here that address sexless marriages - which is what your thread is actually about. You’ve just given this a misleading title on your thread.

as a different solution - have you considered becoming a man who doesn’t need sex? I know - that seems like a silly suggestion after what you’ve written - but it could be an option if you would become open to it.

having ANY woman to give you just sex - seems like using and objectifying the woman…


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

RebuildingMe said:


> You might want to get on the internet and start researching how to get your man card back. Your “soulmate” has emasculated you into a masturbating stay at home nudist.



My "man card" would best be gotten back by getting my career on track. As for the "stay at home nudist" the "nudist" part was initially my own doing, not hers. Having to give up my business to take care of the kids was an unexpected necessity driven by discovering that she didn't have the temperament for taking care of young kids. I could see that our offspring would be far more successful with me in charge at least until they became old enough to not act like kids.

My wife was raised on "tough love" (that is... frequently screamed at and beaten with a belt for minor transgressions.) I didn't know about it until we had kids and was shocked to see how stern she was with them at an early age.

The harsh parenting she suffered shaped her and her siblings. Her siblings were broken in other ways. One became a drunk. The other became a flake. She's a "nice" flake, but a flake nonetheless. Academically, my wife compensated for the brokenness by pouring herself into academics. She is a "Top 1%" with top rankings from two universities. On the job, she is highly revered by everyone who knows her. She gets the job done. She's smart. She's organized. Conscientious. Focused. Kind. Brilliantly tactful. With adults, she is a sweetheart. With our daughters when they were young, she was scary. It's a fact of life that kids are bundles of chaos. Chaos is the one thing she found that her systematically organized mind can't tolerate. They couldn't meet her expectations, she fell apart. That's why I took over the role as primary parent. I was pretty good at it. Our kids turned out great after all.

It's hard to understand this, but since they got beyond their age of youthfully chaotic childishness, my wife is awesome! 

Had I known that she was going to be so stern with the kids, I would have walked away from her before we walked down the aisle. But, we did walk the aisle. I sank my business and raised our girls. That stage of life is now past-tense. We do have a great future together. I love her more than ever even though I expect that our relationship will be full of romance, but won't include sex... at least... not with each other. Physically, she couldn't do it if she tried. Therefore, I land on TAM to explain the situation and collect other people's insights.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Beach123 said:


> Well I wish you luck. I really do.
> 
> i do think it’s going to become difficult for you to NOT get attached to a woman providing you the sex you need.
> 
> there are plenty of threads here that address sexless marriages - which is what your thread is actually about. You’ve just given this a misleading title on your thread.
> 
> as a different solution - have you considered becoming a man who doesn’t need sex? I know - that seems like a silly suggestion after what you’ve written - but it could be an option if you would become open to it.
> 
> having ANY woman to give you just sex - seems like using and objectifying the woman…


I know an old man in his 80s who had to get "chemically castrated" due to prostate cancer. He told me he spent his whole life as a "very high testosterone sex maniac". He said that his mind was consumed by sex every day going back as far as he can remember. (I'm not like him. I'm probably about average for a guy in his 50s.) He said that at first, getting chemically castrated really bothered him because it was going to take away his manhood. But, he said that very quickly it was like a yoke was lifted from his shoulders. The burden of being consumed day after day by sexual urges vanished. He said, "Not only do I not miss it, I see all of the stuff I did from an 'outside looking in' perspective, like, 'That was ME? What was I thinking?!?'" He said it's made him a whole new man. Granted... he's in his 80s. But he said that knocking his testosterone down to zero made him feel laid back, relaxed, and generally satisfied with life. The only thing is that this new ability examine his lifetime without the grip of hormonal intensity makes him sad realize how much better he could have been living his life.

Even so... I don't foresee myself asking my doctor to drop my testosterone levels to zero. But, it does make me wonder if I'd be better off without it. Discontenment in life is measured by the gap between what you want and what you've got. As I mentioned in my OP, sex is just one of multiple facets that make up a marriage. The vast majority of our marriage is excellent. I don't believe that sexual deficiency is worth inflicting harm on the rest of our relationship. Right now, I'm not fully convinced that seeking extramarital assistance for purely sexual needs would be harmful to our relationship, especially if she -- out of a sense of pity for me and a sense of guilt for starving my sexual needs -- were the one to recommend that I do just that.


----------



## Beach123

The more you explain - the more it’s obvious that “the vast majority of your marriage has not been excellent”.
You may be telling yourself that all these years - but your evidence tells a different story.

your wife has held all the power. The power imbalance is showing some serious cracks. They aren’t likely to improve when you two aren’t willing to seek professional help and make some serious changes.

as it stands - she calls all the shots and you make all the sacrifices.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Beach123 said:


> You can be as open minded as possible - but the fact is - your wife views sex as gross.
> I think that is the heart of a big issue.
> You want sex - she doesn’t want to give it.
> 
> so you get the green light to have sex with others…
> 
> is that correct?
> 
> I just don’t see this going well for your marriage - sorry to say - it just isn’t likely to go well, long term.
> 
> why haven’t you two addresses the real issue - which is - your wife thinks sex is gross!
> 
> hit that problem head on first. Was your wife sexually abused as a child? I’d bet money she was…
> 
> the other issue is - YOYR needs aren’t met within the marriage - and she is quick to pass her role of sex onto a complete stranger - in order to not please you herself. That should be a problem - for you… yet you are willing to just have “anyone satisfy that need”.



Now you're getting deep. And, you might be onto something.

I do have some suspicion that my wife was sexually abused when she was around 11 years old. I don't know what the guy did. I saw that when she stumbled onto a story that brought back a memory, tears suddenly welled up in her eyes and froze for a moment. I said, "Did he... do something to you?" She nodded and suddenly changed the subject. I haven't raised the subject since then. The guy died a long time ago. Hmmm... you might be onto something there. Like I said, I estimate that on a "1 to 10" scale with "5" being the median sex drive for a woman, her libido is around a "3". It has just fallen drastically, especially when menopause hit.

Another factor is that her family just didn't talk about sex. Or, if they did, it was in a very negative way, referring to people as "trashy" or "sluts". She grew up immersed in a culture of sex-shaming. Masturbation was certainly never discussed, but if any of them got caught doing it, they would have been punished. So, her attitude is pretty much what she was raised around. Her family communicated that sex was dirty, shameful, and gross, while "true love" will survive without sex. This was conditioned into her.

Now... with her being raised in a family environment of anti-nudity sex-shaming, then had an encounter with a dirty old man when she was 11, the sense of internal conflict would be traumatic.

As for myself, my wife is the only person I have any interest in having sex with. My wandering mind in these posts is driven by the fact that I seriously doubt that there will ever be a way to ignite her sexual fire again, especially since the issue is expanding into the realm of a physical handicap. She is way past her prime. But, even though I've got quite a bit of energy left in me, I'm probably not very far from it myself.

Wow. I just googled sex stats of older people. Other people here have been saying that what I'm describing about my wife losing interest in sex is an extremely common topic of discussion. Based on the surveys, it does appear that once women are done having kids, half of women would like to be done with having sex. The main thing that's unique about my post is that I mentioned a solution of having the wife graciously invite the husband to hook up with people who actually WANT to do the deeds that she would prefer to outsource to someone else.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

BigDaddyNY said:


> Have you actually had a real and direct discussion with her about this or are you just going off of her comment at the party where she said he isn't getting any from her?


I'm considering the possibility of having a discussion rooted in her comment. Here on TAM, I'm thinking through my keyboard.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Beach123 said:


> The more you explain - the more it’s obvious that “the vast majority of your marriage has not been excellent”.
> You may be telling yourself that all these years - but your evidence tells a different story.
> 
> your wife has held all the power. The power imbalance is showing some serious cracks. They aren’t likely to improve when you two aren’t willing to seek professional help and make some serious changes.
> 
> as it stands - she calls all the shots and you make all the sacrifices.



That's true. She drives the car. I'm always the passenger. When anyone else gets behind the wheel, she's pounding her foot into the floorboard and white-knuckling the door because she feels like the car is going to fly off the road. That's how she feels about the household. It was the intensity of her neuroticism that compelled me to shut down my business to commit myself to the role of taking care of them full-time. Through the umpteen years that I did my best to be a great dad and lead a positive household, not being in control throughout the day left her feeling as if her kids were getting spoiled and her home was being mismanaged by a lackadaisical husband. She loved me even though I drove her crazy.

The truth is, she is a heckuvalot smarter and naturally more organized than I am. That's why she manages huge, wildly complex projects at work. She is a control freak because she is ridiculously good at being in control. She has a freakish talent for saying movie lines to the TV screen before the actors do. She predicts the plots long before they get revealed. Intellectually, she is a "Top 1%". Possibly a "Top 0.2%" Do I let her be in control? Yes. Yes I do. I've always been attracted to smart women. Is that emasculating? I dunno. Maybe. The dynamic works for us. I'm right-brained, creative, and easygoing. I need an organizer in my life.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

TexasMom1216 said:


> Doesn’t sound like a great deal for her. More and more it sounds like it should start with “Dear Penthouse, I never thought I’d write a letter like this…” 😂





TexasMom1216 said:


> Doesn’t sound like a great deal for her. More and more it sounds like it should start with “Dear Penthouse, I never thought I’d write a letter like this…” 😂



It's interesting to see the difference in the replies from women versus replies from men.

Yes... she works her a off! She is an extremely hard worker. I owe her BIG TIME and intend to repay her for the great life I've lived! Especially now that the kids are older, my plan is to work my a off to replace her income (as much as I can) so that she can retire. My own retirement privilege has already been used up by all of those years that I stayed home with the kids. 

As for the nudist thing... I only went to a couple of gatherings early in our marriage and discovered that other people were too weird, so I didn't go back. That was over 20 years ago. I mentioned it here because it explains something about how caring and considerate my wife is. She didn't like nudism or want to be a part of it at all, but she cared about me and didn't want me to feel cheated out of something I enjoyed. So, she gave me carte blanch permission to go to naturist resorts without her. After a couple of local gatherings that gave me the creeps, I told her that it was mostly a negative experience because of the weirdos I met, and that was the end of the social nudism. Becoming a dad put an abrupt halt to the practice at home, too.


----------



## Beach123

Why do you seem to think that staying home to raise kids wasn’t a full time job?

and by the way - I am not a man.


----------



## In Absentia

For this very good writer, I would suggest escorts.


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## Rob_1

Jesus, so much rationalizations and blah, blah, blah, about nudism, staying home, and becoming a beta dude that had to wank because wife couldn't or wouldn't get it on with you.

The issue here is... you pondering if it will be OK for you and your wife if you have sex with other women.

Very simple, you sit down your wife and and tell her that you want to explore the option. See what she says, and take it from there. That's it. No need for more blah, blah, blah, justifications, and rationalizations.


----------



## snowbum

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Now you're getting deep. And, you might be onto something.
> 
> I do have some suspicion that my wife was sexually abused when she was around 11 years old. I don't know what the guy did. I saw that when she stumbled onto a story that brought back a memory, tears suddenly welled up in her eyes and froze for a moment. I said, "Did he... do something to you?" She nodded and suddenly changed the subject. I haven't raised the subject since then. The guy died a long time ago. Hmmm... you might be onto something there. Like I said, I estimate that on a "1 to 10" scale with "5" being the median sex drive for a woman, her libido is around a "3". It has just fallen drastically, especially when menopause hit.
> 
> Another factor is that her family just didn't talk about sex. Or, if they did, it was in a very negative way, referring to people as "trashy" or "sluts". She grew up immersed in a culture of sex-shaming. Masturbation was certainly never discussed, but if any of them got caught doing it, they would have been punished. So, her attitude is pretty much what she was raised around. Her family communicated that sex was dirty, shameful, and gross, while "true love" will survive without sex. This was conditioned into her.
> 
> Now... with her being raised in a family environment of anti-nudity sex-shaming, then had an encounter with a dirty old man when she was 11, the sense of internal conflict would be traumatic.
> 
> As for myself, my wife is the only person I have any interest in having sex with. My wandering mind in these posts is driven by the fact that I seriously doubt that there will ever be a way to ignite her sexual fire again, especially since the issue is expanding into the realm of a physical handicap. She is way past her prime. But, even though I've got quite a bit of energy left in me, I'm probably not very far from it myself.
> 
> Wow. I just googled sex stats of older people. Other people here have been saying that what I'm describing about my wife losing interest in sex is an extremely common topic of discussion. Based on the surveys, it does appear that once women are done having kids, half of women would like to be done with having sex. The main thing that's unique about my post is that I mentioned a solution of having the wife graciously invite the husband to hook up with people who actually WANT to do the deeds that she would prefer to outsource to someone else.


Quit saying women in their 50s don’t want sex. I’m your wife’s age and I initiate we at 3 am twice a week. Dh and I love it. Your wife has an issue. Not women. This woman. Sex to me is fun, not a job. I also work and gave 3 kids. If women donot like sex it’s most likely a relationship issue. Honestly.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Beach123 said:


> Why do you seem to think that staying home to raise kids wasn’t a full time job?
> 
> and by the way - I am not a man.


It’s interesting to me how the same people who say women should stay home because raising kids and keeping house is an important job certainly change their tune when that same job is done by a man. 🤷‍♀️

I’d like to hear the wife’s reaction to her husband taking a snarky joke she told and proposing a one-way open marriage. Sometimes we joke about things as a way to open a discussion. This doesn’t sound to me like that, but I don’t know her and wasn’t there.


----------



## Diana7

Rob_1 said:


> Well, if you're wife has medical issues that renders her physically unable to perform, and PIV would be painful, of course trying to coerce her into sex would be callous and too self serving.
> 
> I would stand by my wife in this type of situation, regardless of no sex. How can a man have satisfaction during intercourse while watching his wife wriggling with pain.
> 
> If your wife is really all for you "outsourcing" sex, then that's a probability that can be explored, but with the standard warnings.
> 
> If it is due to medical issues and you want to stand by your wife, no one can blame you or judge you. That's admirable. The problem to me is if it is just because she just decided that no more sex for her, and screw hubby.


I suspect if she wanted to have sex there are would be ways around health issues. Its more that she hates sex.


----------



## Livvie

Diana7 said:


> I suspect if she wanted to have sex there are would be ways around health issues. Its more that she hates sex.


This. OP you may have had a list pre marriage but you failed on a big ticket list item and should have kept on looking.

Your wife thinks sex is gross, your wife doesn't care about your sexual care and happiness, and she selfish. Yes she is. I even question if she truly loves you, because true love doesn't behave the way she does. 

You aren't going to be able to change her, so yeah, I think it's 30 more years of masturbation and possibly random hook ups you are facing if you stay in this "marriage" that is really a platonic friendship.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Diana7 said:


> You say that you don't ever want a divorce but having sex outside the marriage almost always results in bad consequences and often divorce anyway.
> Personally I think it's a terrible idea especially for a couple who have until recently valued faithfulness.



That viewpoint does put a negative spin on the concept.

The word "faithfulness" clashes with how I originally envisioned that hypothetical arrangement. It's granting spousal permission that's accompanied by ground rules declaring that any meet-ups be purely "physical", with no dating, mouth-kissing, romance, or relationship, and with no stings attached. The flings are just people helping each other out with otherwise neglected organs. Nobody is being "unfaithful" within the marriage. The couple's feelings of love, affection, romance, and commitment remain exclusively within the bonds of matrimony. Giving permission to resolve physical needs, much like giving her husband a Playboy subscription and trusting him with permission to visit naturist venues while she does her own thing demonstrates trust and shows that she genuinely cares about making sure that she isn't interfering with her husband's ability to live a fulfilled life.

I don't remember what TV show it was, but I remember a scene where a wife was dumping her husband after discovering that he screwed a woman he met on a business trip or whatever. The scene portrayed him as a dumbfounded idiot for telling his wife, "You're upset about THAT? It meant NOTHING! It was just PHYSICAL!"

The film made the futility of his defense seem humorous. However... now with three decades of exclusivity under my belt, I can comprehend how it is possible that a person could perceive a casual hook-up as "nothing but physical". At the time, he saw it as temporarily refreshing while being irrelevant to his relationship with his wife, since she wasn't involved. The REAL morality problem was that since he knew that she would not approve of him having such an affair, he tried to keep it secret from her.

Before I got married, I explicitly told my wife that although I wasn't planning to ever fool around with anybody else, statistics about marital infidelity show that it's not uncommon. For that reason, I told her that our marriage does NOT include an up-front promise to never have sex with other people. I said that I would never have sex with another woman WITHOUT her PERMISSION. I explained that the vow that I am making to her is that I promise to be HONEST about such things. At no point in our life-long marriage will she ever need to question whether or not her husband is fooling around. If or when I ever see what appears to be an opportunity, I promise that I will tell her what I'm thinking, why it's on my mind, and basically lay it all out so that she knows the whole truth and we can decide together whether or not going through with it with the other person is the right thing to do for our relationship. I gave her a vow of honesty. She knew right then that she could trust me. And, it's true. She can.


----------



## snowbum

If you just need an orgasm use your hand. Not another person you feel nothing for. My opinion is that you’re trying to perfume a ****ty view of marriage. Your bow isn’t a bow. It’s narcissistic and gaslighting your wife. “Hey I’m having sex with women but since you know no harm no foul”. Bizarre. You have not mentioned one selfless romantic thing you have done for your wife. It’s all do what I day


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Diana7 said:


> I suspect if she wanted to have sex there are would be ways around health issues. Its more that she hates sex.



She thinks it's gross and just doesn't like it. Especially as a medical professional who has seen some extremely disgusting up-close in-person views of actual genitalia in nauseating conditions, whatever sense of sexual arousal she once got from sexual anatomy has vanished.

A few months ago she tried to be delicate and accurate about how she said this. She said, "If I found out that I couldn't ever have sex again, I wouldn't be disappointed. Honestly, I would feel a sense of relief." Her attitude toward my manhood is, "Babe... I really don't want that thing. It's yours anyway. You can do whatever you want with it. Just don't be stupid and bring home a disease."


----------



## TexasMom1216

When are you going to tell her? I hope you’ll come back and post how it goes.


----------



## Beach123

I’m not surprised she was likely sexually assaulted as a child. Most women who are show signs as adults that your wife shows. They gain weight like it’s a protective barrier, many are in power positions taking the upper hand, and many shut down sex with their spouse claiming they can’t.

I am older than you are and I don’t know anyone that doesn’t have a healthy sex life - except for the people who CHOOSE not to. Sex is a beautiful part of a healthy marriage. Sex is expected in a happy marriage.

if your wife won’t address her issues from childhood (and she probably won’t) her issues run so deep that she takes it out on you - there’s nothing you can do to change it within your marriage.

but really, she should at least get honest and admit where her mindset that she hates sex comes from. It comes from her childhood - not from interactions with you.

and please - quit saying this is a great marriage! You keep lying to yourself! This is NOT a great marriage! It’s a backwards relationship and very one sided. She calls the shots and you follow.


----------



## Livvie

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> She thinks it's gross and just doesn't like it. Especially as a medical professional who has seen some extremely disgusting up-close in-person views of actual genitalia in nauseating conditions, whatever sense of sexual arousal she once got from sexual anatomy has vanished.
> 
> A few months ago she tried to be delicate and accurate about how she said this. She said, "If I found out that I couldn't ever have sex again, I wouldn't be disappointed. Honestly, I would feel a sense of relief." Her attitude toward my manhood is, "Babe... I really don't want that thing. It's yours anyway. You can do whatever you want with it. Just don't be stupid and bring home a disease."


That thing?

Yeah she's a peach, eh?


----------



## snowbum

You aren’t in a loving relationship, you are two people occupying the same four walls. You won’t divorce because you don’t make the money and don’t want to support yourself. Fact. You’re willing to live the good life on your wife’s dime


----------



## Sfort

snowbum said:


> If women donot like sex it’s most likely a relationship issue. Honestly.


Hmmm


----------



## Sfort

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Yes, but, to me, the rest of the person she is makes her well worth holding onto even without sex.


So how can we help? What information would you like with us? You're not interested in the obvious answer.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Goin' way out on a limb here, but I'm willing to bet my right arm that you don't look anything like Michael Douglas, so you probably don't need to worry about coming home to find your bunny being boiled on the stove.


LOL -- Nope. I don't look like Michael Douglas. However, before my wife and I finally hooked up, I briefly dated a girl that was so possessive that I referred to as a "fatal attraction". She was calling me at 5am desperately asking me "Where do we stand?"


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Sfort said:


> Hmmm



My wife, plus other females that I've been acquainted with were raised in well-intentioned households that systematically taught their daughters to consider sex as "disgusting, embarrassing, shameful, sinful, slutty, dangerous, and gross" as a way of keeping them from getting knocked up as teenagers.


----------



## Always Learning

I think you are kidding yourself about how good and solid your marriage is. You are in a one way marriage where you are doing all the giving. You hold her on a pedestal and it is time to knock her off of it. The biggest signal you had was when she had no problem publicly humiliating you about going on tinder because she was never having sex with you. That was a brazen sign of disrespect that you should not have let go. You should have pulled your phone out in front of everyone and signed up for a tinder account and left saying you already had a hit and won't be home tonight.

She is not sexually attracted to *YOU* and has not been for a very long time. She feels very safe that you are going nowhere, giving her the reassurance she needs to treat you badly with no repercussions.

I'm not trying to be mean but your story has taken a while to come out. You need to reread every post you have made and put the puzzle together. Your needs are not on her priority list.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Sfort said:


> So how can we help? What information would you like with us? You're not interested in the obvious answer.


My main intention when I posted was just to introduce myself and the marital situation in hopes of finding out whether there are others who have, "been there" and "done that" to find out whether it was a good idea or a bad idea, and to hear from others what worked and didn't work, what they would have done differently, etc. However, that dialogue about considering others for helping facilitate anatomical function reflects the fact that sex is just one of many facets of marriage. We really are a "happy" couple whose happy together and intend to stay together to the end of time. That's a long time. I want to make the most of it.

The best marital words of wisdom I've heard is to not see marriage as "50/50". When you do that, you tend to give only as much as you expect to receive. Rather, see marriage as "100/100". Each partner should give 100% of themselves to the other.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

@HouseDad-NestEmpty The more you describe your wife the worse things get in my view. She actually sounds like a very unloving woman.

Sex is gross, except when it was for something she wanted (kids), then 4-6 times a week was okay.
She couldn't even properly love and care for her own children. They were just too much.
She's a control freak.
She doesn't like your driving.
She thought you did a crap job managing the household
She doesn't have the time or desire to help fulfill your sexual needs, in fact she is disgusted by your sexuality and willing to publicly disrespect you about it. 

This is your ideal wife? Your soulmate? I'm sorry, but you have some serious rose colored glasses on.

Go ahead and have that discussion about opening the marriage, but there is no way this woman is going to go along with you getting sex outside the marriage. And the only way you will get what you described, "that any meet-ups be purely "physical", with no dating, mouth-kissing, romance, or relationship, and with no stings attached" means you are going to have to pay for it. You will have 0 luck just finding someone that isn't even interest in kissing while having sex. You are describing a sex worker. Now, will your wife be willing to foot the bill for a weekly hooker for you? LOL, we know the answer.

Also, 50 somethings and older do like having sex. My wife 54 and loves it. We have many similar aged friends that we know are sexually active with each other. It isn't all that unusual.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> The best marital words of wisdom I've heard is to not see marriage as "50/50". When you do that, you tend to give only as much as you expect to receive. *Rather, see marriage as "100/100". Each partner should give 100% of themselves to the other.*


What percentage is your wife giving? It is obviously less than 100%, no?


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Always Learning said:


> I think you are kidding yourself about how good and solid your marriage is. You are in a one way marriage where you are doing all the giving. You hold her on a pedestal and it is time to knock her off of it. The biggest signal you had was when she had no problem publicly humiliating you about going on tinder because she was never having sex with you. That was a brazen sign of disrespect that you should not have let go. You should have pulled your phone out in front of everyone and signed up for a tinder account and left saying you already had a hit and won't be home tonight.
> 
> She is not sexually attracted to *YOU* and has not been for a very long time. She feels very safe that you are going nowhere, giving her the reassurance she needs to treat you badly with no repercussions.
> 
> I'm not trying to be mean but your story has taken a while to come out. You need to reread every post you have made and put the puzzle together. Your needs are not on her priority list.



I see how it can come across that way. You'd have to know her, though. She works hard and is extremely genuine and generous. Her "tinder" comment was also a jab at herself.

It's not just that she isn't sexually attracted to ME. It's that she isn't aroused by sex anymore. Part of that might be from her exposure to medical environments. She has seen (and smelled) some really disgusting stuff that polluted her perception of what most people consider sensuous anatomy.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Beach123 said:


> Why do you seem to think that staying home to raise kids wasn’t a full time job?
> 
> and by the way - I am not a man.


Staying home to raise kids WAS a full-time job. I have a lot of respect for housewives.

My point was that taking that job resulted in having to put my career and income on hold for a very long time. I'd probably be a multimillionaire if I hadn't done that when I did it. At this point, getting my career back on track will be an uphill climb.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

BigDaddyNY said:


> What percentage is your wife giving? It is obviously less than 100%, no?


She has given so much more than 100% in non-sex categories that it makes up for the difference. I wouldn't trade her for the world.


----------



## Livvie

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> I see how it can come across that way. You'd have to know her, though. She works hard and is extremely genuine and generous. Her "tinder" comment was also a jab at herself.
> 
> It's not just that she isn't sexually attracted to ME. It's that she isn't aroused by sex anymore. Part of that might be from her exposure to medical environments. She has seen (and smelled) some really disgusting stuff that polluted her perception of what most people consider sensuous anatomy.


Doctors and nurses around the world still have sex. 

That's an excuse you agree trying to sell yourself.


----------



## Works

..


----------



## snowbum

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> My wife, plus other females that I've been acquainted with were raised in well-intentioned households that systematically taught their daughters to consider sex as "disgusting, embarrassing, shameful, sinful, slutty, dangerous, and gross" as a way of keeping them from getting knocked up as teenagers.


Since your sexual beliefs differ so greatly you should never have married. You are not innocent in this.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Beach123 said:


> I’m not surprised she was likely sexually assaulted as a child. Most women who are show signs as adults that your wife shows. They gain weight like it’s a protective barrier, many are in power positions taking the upper hand, and many shut down sex with their spouse claiming they can’t.
> 
> I am older than you are and I don’t know anyone that doesn’t have a healthy sex life - except for the people who CHOOSE not to. Sex is a beautiful part of a healthy marriage. Sex is expected in a happy marriage.
> 
> if your wife won’t address her issues from childhood (and she probably won’t) her issues run so deep that she takes it out on you - there’s nothing you can do to change it within your marriage.
> 
> but really, she should at least get honest and admit where her mindset that she hates sex comes from. It comes from her childhood - not from interactions with you.
> 
> and please - quit saying this is a great marriage! You keep lying to yourself! This is NOT a great marriage! It’s a backwards relationship and very one sided. She calls the shots and you follow.



I think that her lack of interest in sex is also due to the repulsive stuff she has seen in her job. She has told me about some of it. With that negative conditioning, it's easy to see how whatever sexuality she used to associate with human anatomy could get polluted by some really disgusting memories. 

Despite her distaste for sex, the marriage is absolutely not one-sided.

As for control issues, aside from her lack of interest in sex, when she calls the shots, it's almost always because she is right. I trust her opinions better than my own. At work, she is surrounded by people with PhDs. When they need more brainpower to solve problems, she is one they trust to come up with the best answer.


----------



## Always Learning

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> I see how it can come across that way. You'd have to know her, though. She works hard and is extremely genuine and generous. Her "tinder" comment was also a jab at herself.
> 
> It's not just that she isn't sexually attracted to ME. It's that she isn't aroused by sex anymore. Part of that might be from her exposure to medical environments. She has seen (and smelled) some really disgusting stuff that polluted her perception of what most people consider sensuous anatomy.


Well then I think your plan needs to be to sit down with her and show her your Tinder and Adult Friend Finder accounts and check out her response.


----------



## Rob_1

OK. More blah, blah, blah. Just going around in circles. By now you could have told her. You could have reached an agreement. By now you could already be satiated with sex that you wouldn't even think of TAM.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> She has given so much more than 100% in non-sex categories that it makes up for the difference. I wouldn't trade her for the world.


That's really a non-answer and just making another excuse for her.


----------



## Beach123

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> She has given so much more than 100% in non-sex categories that it makes up for the difference. I wouldn't trade her for the world.


then quit saying she is a great wife when she isn’t.
And then live with her very controlling restrictive guidelines SHE put in place for YOUR happiness. Which actually look unhappy by the way!

if you want to have sex outside the marriage - PAY a sex worker. Using random women isn’t right. Using any woman isn’t right. Pay for the services. Done and problem solved.

You think putting lipstick on a pig dresses up the pig? No. Your wife is a controlling, selfish power monger who likes having a beta husband she can set the rules with.

this is NOT a good marriage.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

snowbum said:


> Since your sexual beliefs differ so greatly you should never have married. You are not innocent in this.


We were not sexless when we entered into the marriage. We've been together almost 3 decades. her attitude toward it changed over time.


Rob_1 said:


> Hah...not that it applies tou your wife, but you're just as delusional as just about any other dude that comes here swearing to God almighty, that his wife is incapable of such thing, no way, no how, only to come back with their tail between their legs, because in their closed minded foolishness they couldn't conceive their wife doing such a thing.
> 
> Actually, if I had bet everytime someone comes here and makes the same statement, I would be rich by now.
> 
> But in overall it goes with guys mentalities like yours. Closed to consideration to anything but what you already set in stones in your mind.
> 
> That's the pattern for the typical knight in shining armor falling on his own sword in order to save the lady. And that's fine for guys that want to be the sacrificial lamb. So no problem.
> 
> Me, in the other hand..
> I had sufficient self respect and dignity to leave. I didn't just wanted a wife, I wanted a lover and a partner. I wanted it all, not just one aspect of the relationship. I divorced my first wife, and in retrospect it was the best decision that I ever made. Now I have a woman that wanted me as her lover, not just as the nice guy that lives with her as her sweet, docile roommate with the occasional kiss in the cheek.
> 
> Your wife is a lucky woman. She has it all, just the way she wants it. I wonder if all those years of you being the stay at home parent, and her daily interacting with all those alpha dudes in her corporate world somehow killed it for her after coming home to you and looking at you in all your nakedness.



You made some good points there. I've had some of those same thoughts... especially about the "alpha dudes". All day every day she has been surrounded by coworkers with PhDs, hefty retirement accounts, fancy cars, and 3,000 sq ft vacation homes. It raises her standards for material wealth and charisma far beyond the reality she experiences at home.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Beach123 said:


> then quit saying she is a great wife when she isn’t.
> And then live with her very controlling restrictive guidelines SHE put in place for YOUR happiness. Which actually look unhappy by the way!
> 
> if you want to have sex outside the marriage - PAY a sex worker. Using random women isn’t right. Using any woman isn’t right. Pay for the services. Done and problem solved.
> 
> You think putting lipstick on a pig dresses up the pig? No. Your wife is a controlling, selfish power monger who likes having a beta husband she can set the rules with.
> 
> this is NOT a good marriage.


Paying for sex is illegal in our state. Can't do that.

From a few posts here, you're not seeing the full picture. The overall marriage is better than it sounds. She just has psychological and physical hangups about sex.


----------



## Mybabysgotit

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> The concern that drove me to search for forums was when she tried to help me out with a "handy". Physically, something more serious is happening to her health. She is seeing doctors about it but so far we don't know what it is. Even her hands aren't working well enough to do a HJ. Her attempt was actually what happened when she realized the problem. That discovery traumatized her. She's not "lazy" at all. I'm thinking that she would be glad to know that my sexual needs are being met without having to deal with something she thinks is "gross", and furthermore, makes her feel inadequate and afraid. Physically and psychologically, sex has become a negative thing for her. She has sought solutions. The solutions failed. She has no libido. I have plenty. Still... marriage is multi-faceted and our relationship has always been built upon so much more than sex.


If I were you, I would occasionally seek out escorts. That way there are no emotional ties, your wife doesn't have to know (i'm thinking she would prefer to not know), and you get that physical connection. If you find a local one that understands your situation, it would be all the better.


----------



## Diana7

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Maybe. My own conception is that it would make ME love her even more. Like, when she bought me that Playboy subscription, I was thinking, "Dang! What a GREAT girlfriend this is!" After we got married and she told me I could go to Naturist resorts without her and was apologetic about the fact that she would rather stay home... I knew I had a winner! I was thinking... "Wow! My wife just gave me permission to take weekends off without her to be naked with a bunch of other naked people!" Others here have said they are suspicious of HER intentions, but I know her well enough that there was nothing "sexual" about her intentions behind getting me out of the house a few times per year. I already knew that she was bordering on being "asexual". An "affair would never happen.
> 
> I haven't ruled out the "Tinder profile" concept yet. Her "asexual" view of sex she possesses nowadays is that she has no strong emotions or jealousy connections to the concept. I can imagine her saying, 'Babe, I love you. It's just like the nudism thing. If you want to do it, do it. You only live once. But, keep it in Vegas. I don't need to hear about it."


Just because a spouses says something is ok, it doesn't mean it really is ok. It's a minefield.


----------



## TexasMom1216

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> My main intention when I posted was just to introduce myself and the marital situation in hopes of finding out whether there are others who have, "been there" and "done that" to find out whether it was a good idea or a bad idea, and to hear from others what worked and didn't work, what they would have done differently, etc.


So what is your plan?


----------



## RebuildingMe

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> I wouldn't trade her for the world.


I’m sure there is not a sole on this site that would want to trade with you, so I think you’re ok there.


----------



## Mybabysgotit

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> This forum discussion is taking quite a turn. I guess my original post was more about "open marriages" for strictly casual sex. Most readers are suggesting that 1) she isn't living up to her end of the marital agreement, 2) and that I wouldn't be living up to MY end of the marital agreement if I did anything sexual with anyone else, and 3 it sounds like a bad marriage headed for divorce.
> 
> I'm still listening. Just not convinced that making my end of the marriage become "open" for extramarital ejaculatory needs is unreasonable. The one reader's comment about people in their 50s being able to find anyone else to do such things is quite sobering. The thought of finding myself face-to-face with some skank in a musty apartment doesn't sound like an arousing scenario.


If you think you are going to hop on Tinder, or any other dating site for that matter and have match after match, you are surely mistaken. There is little to no market for middle aged men that are already married looking for no strings attached sex, no matter how good looking and fit you think you are. Think about it, an obese woman with a mustache can get laid by nearly any guy out there so why would a good looking woman want to sleep with a middle aged married man that has nothing to offer?


----------



## Mybabysgotit

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Wow. I just googled sex stats of older people. *Other people here have been saying that what I'm describing about my wife losing interest in sex is an extremely common topic of discussion.* Based on the surveys, it does appear that once women are done having kids, half of women would like to be done with having sex. The main thing that's unique about my post is that I mentioned a solution of having the wife graciously invite the husband to hook up with people who actually WANT to do the deeds that she would prefer to outsource to someone else.


I don't think she lost interest in sex, I think, based on everything you wrote, your wife never had an interest in sex to begin with. For her, it was procreation. plain and simple


----------



## snowbum

Mybabysgotit said:


> If you think you are going to hop on Tinder, or any other dating site for that matter and have match after match, you are surely mistaken. There is little to no market for middle aged men that are already married looking for no strings attached sex, no matter how good looking and fit you think you are. Think about it, an obese woman with a mustache can get laid by nearly any guy out there so why would a good looking woman want to sleep with a middle aged married man that has nothing to offer?


That’s a bunch of crap.


----------



## Sfort

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> My wife, plus other females that I've been acquainted with were raised in well-intentioned households that systematically taught their daughters to consider sex as "disgusting, embarrassing, shameful, sinful, slutty, dangerous, and gross" as a way of keeping them from getting knocked up as teenagers.


That was then. This is now.


----------



## Sfort

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> I think that her lack of interest in sex is also due to the repulsive stuff she has seen in her job. She has told me about some of it. With that negative conditioning, it's easy to see how whatever sexuality she used to associate with human anatomy could get polluted by some really disgusting memories.


Are you trying to convince us or yourself? We're not buying it.


----------



## Thisnotthat

Your lengthy justifications aside, here's a bullet point list of your situation:

1) You haven't worked for years. Your wife supported the family, including two kids
2) You "sacrificed" a happy life of your own conquering the world (which you were and are undoubtedly fully capable of) to selflessly stay home and raise two kids, girls - because your wife's just not cut out for that sort of thing
3) She doesn't care if you lounge around nude with other strangers in situations that you indicate are non-sexual
4) She stopped having sex with you, but your still soulmates and still have the bestest marriage ever! Its just that mean ole menopause
5) You've given her the old teenager whine about blue balls, and how sore your balls are, even though your in your 50's
6) She doesn't care or doesn't believe you that your balls hurt, apparently for the past 15 or 20 years
7) You've had lots of conversations with yourself about having sex with other people, and imaginary conversations with your wife about why this would be "a real good thing"
8) You think that because she doesn't care if you lounge around nude with strangers that she also won't care if you go ahead and throw your willy in a couple of them, too. She'll just stay home and cook dinner and just see ya after! 
9) She made a couple of off-hand jokes in the past that you believe support your argument

My guess is that she's not uninterested in sex, but rather she's just uninterested in sex with you. Here's the thing: based on what you wrote, almost every other woman will be, too. Welcome to middle age, my dude! Despite your time at the gym, the fact is your a middle age man who hasn't worked in years (latest foray notwithstanding). So you don't even get to bang the occasional wayward intern or lonely office mom! Your only special skills seem to be magically knowing every thought in a woman's head and why she's having it, which (pro tip) is creepy as the crabs crawling around on your hairy nudist friends. 

My dude, no more long paragraphs about your wife or your ridiculous internal dialogue. You sound like a 13 year old that just got her first period or something.... christsakes, put a plug in it! Go find some guy friends (preferably some with their clothes on), do some hobbies all on your own, work on a car or do something that doesn't include standing around with your sore balls hanging out! Your wife doesn't want to get busy with you because your a wanker, more obsessed with how often you jack off than the fact that you seem to have no meaningful purpose for your life. Pull on your big boy briefs, some Carharts and go smash something!


----------



## Beach123

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Paying for sex is illegal in our state. Can't do that.
> 
> From a few posts here, you're not seeing the full picture. The overall marriage is better than it sounds. She just has psychological and physical hangups about sex.


please… tell me what I missed about the overall marriage/full picture?

you’ve repeated yourself over and over and I literally have read through all of your posts.

you say she is a great wife/great marriage… and then the info given about your wife doesn’t portray a great wife or a great marriage. You contradict yourself - maybe you’ve been lead to believe this is a good marriage but actually know deep down it’s not!

and for what it’s worth - I was married as long as you and we had sex every day - some days 3 times a day. You know why? Because that’s what a wife does when she really loves her husband - she wants to make HIM happy.

yet, your wife does not.
So you explain to me how this is supposed to look happy? Explain what I may be missing.


----------



## RebuildingMe

Thisnotthat said:


> Your lengthy justifications aside, here's a bullet point list of your situation:
> 
> 1) You haven't worked for years. Your wife supported the family, including two kids
> 2) You "sacrificed" a happy life of your own conquering the world (which you were and are undoubtedly fully capable of) to selflessly stay home and raise two kids, girls - because your wife's just not cut out for that sort of thing
> 3) She doesn't care if you lounge around nude with other strangers in situations that you indicate are non-sexual
> 4) She stopped having sex with you, but your still soulmates and still have the bestest marriage ever! Its just that mean ole menopause
> 5) You've given her the old teenager whine about blue balls, and how sore your balls are, even though your in your 50's
> 6) She doesn't care or doesn't believe you that your balls hurt, apparently for the past 15 or 20 years
> 7) You've had lots of conversations with yourself about having sex with other people, and imaginary conversations with your wife about why this would be "a real good thing"
> 8) You think that because she doesn't care if you lounge around nude with strangers that she also won't care if you go ahead and throw your willy in a couple of them, too. She'll just stay home and cook dinner and just see ya after!
> 9) She made a couple of off-hand jokes in the past that you believe support your argument
> 
> My guess is that she's not uninterested in sex, but rather she's just uninterested in sex with you. Here's the thing: based on what you wrote, almost every other woman will be, too. Welcome to middle age, my dude! Despite your time at the gym, the fact is your a middle age man who hasn't worked in years (latest foray notwithstanding). So you don't even get to bang the occasional wayward intern or lonely office mom! Your only special skills seem to be magically knowing every thought in a woman's head and why she's having it, which (pro tip) is creepy as the crabs crawling around on your hairy nudist friends.
> 
> My dude, no more long paragraphs about your wife or your ridiculous internal dialogue. You sound like a 13 year old that just got her first period or something.... christsakes, put a plug in it! Go find some guy friends (preferably some with their clothes on), do some hobbies all on your own, work on a car or do something that doesn't include standing around with your sore balls hanging out! Your wife doesn't want to get busy with you because your a wanker, more obsessed with how often you jack off than the fact that you seem to have no meaningful purpose for your life. Pull on your big boy briefs, some Carharts and go smash something!


And that folks is what we call a mic drop.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Mybabysgotit said:


> If you think you are going to hop on Tinder, or any other dating site for that matter and have match after match, you are surely mistaken. There is little to no market for middle aged men that are already married looking for no strings attached sex, no matter how good looking and fit you think you are. Think about it, an obese woman with a mustache can get laid by nearly any guy out there so why would a good looking woman want to sleep with a middle aged married man that has nothing to offer?


Yep. That's a major flaw in the concept. "Outsourcing" the sexual component doesn't work when there's probably nobody out there that I would find attractive enough for a purely physical encounter who would actually be willing to participate. And, I don't exactly look like I have a part-time gig with Chippendales.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Beach123 said:


> please… tell me what I missed about the overall marriage/full picture?
> 
> you’ve repeated yourself over and over and I literally have read through all of your posts.
> 
> you say she is a great wife/great marriage… and then the info given about your wife doesn’t portray a great wife or a great marriage. You contradict yourself - maybe you’ve been lead to believe this is a good marriage but actually know deep down it’s not!
> 
> and for what it’s worth - I was married as long as you and we had sex every day - some days 3 times a day. You know why? Because that’s what a wife does when she really loves her husband - she wants to make HIM happy.
> 
> yet, your wife does not.
> So you explain to me how this is supposed to look happy? Explain what I may be missing.



She definitely has been willing to have sex for the sake of pleasing me and "satisfying" my needs, despite not actually having an interest in sex. Suppose I were an avid golfer and knew that she was totally NOT into golf, yet dragged herself to swing the club on the course with me anyway, spending the whole time feeling annoyed, wishing she were doing anything other than playing a game she doesn't like, but dutifully plays the part of being my good wifey pretending to enjoy the game. I don't want to pressure her into doing something she doesn't want to do. The turning point where I realized that "enough is enough" was when her health slipped downhill enough that she couldn't no longer hide the pain from basic intercourse, and then even broke down in tears when she realized that her hands are failing her. It's one thing to be doing something to please her husband while her mind is occupied by work and life's other responsibilities. It's quite another when the act is physically painful and sparks fear from the realization that her body is falling apart. Aside from that, like I said, as a medical professional she has seen a lot of things that forged some extremely UNsexy mental associations with human genitalia.

After the question was asked about whether she encountered abuse as a child, I also remembered that soon after we met, one of her friends told me that she was date-raped by a really creepy guy. I haven't asked. She hasn't told. Even so... other factors related to the constant desexualization of genitalia have made them rather unappealing to her.

She really does want to please me and for me to be happy. She goes along with (or "puts up with") plenty of my other nagging shortcomings. She just doesn't like sex. That's why I've been wondering whether she (or we) would be happier by "opening" the sex portion of my side of the marriage. It would set her free from feeling obligated to keep doing something that she would rather not do.

Congratulations on having daily (or 3x daily) sex! That is amazing and awesome! My impression is that it's also quite rare out our ages.


----------



## Works

If all you're lookin


HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Yep. That's a major flaw in the concept. "Outsourcing" the sexual component doesn't work when there's probably nobody out there that I would find attractive enough for a purely physical encounter who would actually be willing to participate. And, I don't exactly look like I have a part-time gig with Chippendales.


If all you're looking for is sex, why do they have to be attractive? I have a feeling that if you do, indeed, find this.. it's going to blow up in your face (no pun intended).


----------



## BigDaddyNY

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> She definitely has been willing to have sex for the sake of pleasing me and "satisfying" my needs, despite not actually having an interest in sex. Suppose I were an avid golfer and knew that she was totally NOT into golf, yet dragged herself to swing the club on the course with me anyway, spending the whole time feeling annoyed, wishing she were doing anything other than playing a game she doesn't like, but dutifully plays the part of being my good wifey pretending to enjoy the game. I don't want to pressure her into doing something she doesn't want to do. The turning point where I realized that "enough is enough" was when her health slipped downhill enough that she couldn't no longer hide the pain from basic intercourse, and then even broke down in tears when she realized that her hands are failing her. It's one thing to be doing something to please her husband while her mind is occupied by work and life's other responsibilities. It's quite another when the act is physically painful and sparks fear from the realization that her body is falling apart. Aside from that, like I said, as a medical professional she has seen a lot of things that forged some extremely UNsexy mental associations with human genitalia.
> 
> After the question was asked about whether she encountered abuse as a child, I also remembered that soon after we met, one of her friends told me that she was date-raped by a really creepy guy. I haven't asked. She hasn't told. Even so... other factors related to the constant desexualization of genitalia have made them rather unappealing to her.
> 
> She really does want to please me and for me to be happy. She goes along with (or "puts up with") plenty of my other nagging shortcomings. She just doesn't like sex. That's why I've been wondering whether she (or we) would be happier by "opening" the sex portion of my side of the marriage. It would set her free from feeling obligated to keep doing something that she would rather not do.
> 
> Congratulations on having daily (or 3x daily) sex! That is amazing and awesome! My impression is that it's also quite rare out our ages.


Golf isn't an integral part of a marriage, so it isn't a valid comparison to sex.

You've excused your wife's non participation in your marital sex life, so you basically need to come to terms with the fact that your sexual life is now over. That is your reality.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Mybabysgotit said:


> I don't think she lost interest in sex, I think, based on everything you wrote, your wife never had an interest in sex to begin with. For her, it was procreation. plain and simple


For her, it was procreation and a tool to help convince a man to marry her so that she wouldn't end up being an old maid. After we fell in love, the main thing that she enjoyed was knowing that she made me happy. Over time, that incentive is not enough. She got her man. She had the babies. She "satisfied" her husband often enough that it feels like a chore. Despite not having any interest in sex for herself, she still wants to know that my needs are being met. Therefore... "What if I give him permission to get that elsewhere? He might be thrilled. I might not have to deal with it anymore. Hmmm..."


----------



## BigDaddyNY

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> For her, it was procreation and a tool to help convince a man to marry her so that she wouldn't end up being an old maid. After we fell in love, the main thing that she enjoyed was knowing that she made me happy. Over time, that incentive is not enough. She got her man. She had the babies. She "satisfied" her husband often enough that it feels like a chore. Despite not having any interest in sex for herself, she still wants to know that my needs are being met. Therefore... "What if I give him permission to get that elsewhere? He might be thrilled. I might not have to deal with it anymore. Hmmm..."


Sounds like your premarital checklist failed to do its job.


----------



## RebuildingMe

Your thread is no different then the countless others on this forum. Sex starved husbands. The only difference with yours is that you still praise your wife, make excuses for her and want to change nothing in your life and marriage. Therefore, there is just no hope for you. You will be the town masturbating nudist clown for the next 30 years. Why? Because you justify it. All of it.


----------



## TexasMom1216

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> For her, it was procreation and a tool to help convince a man to marry her so that she wouldn't end up being an old maid.


Wow. I tell you what, she looks worse and worse as this thread spirals. Get a job and leave, dude, this is crazytown.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Sfort said:


> That was then. This is now.


Much of the "now" was shaped by past experiences. On a 1 to 10 scale, her libido started as a 3.


BigDaddyNY said:


> Golf isn't an integral part of a marriage, so it isn't a valid comparison to sex.


Avid golfers might disagree with that statement.


----------



## snowbum

Not sure why you married an asexual woman knowinhly. Pretty odd


----------



## BigDaddyNY

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Much of the "now" was shaped by past experiences. On a 1 to 10 scale, her libido started as a 3.
> 
> 
> Avid golfers might disagree with that statement.


I'm an avid golfer and I don't agree. I love golf, but I'll drop it in a heartbeat if my wife were ready to go. 


You married a woman that had almost no libido when in her sexual prime. I take it this wasn't part of your checklist? Why would you do such a thing if sex was at all important to you?

Go ahead and have the heart to heart with your wife and let us know how it goes.


----------



## Beach123

You love her so much! Ok!
So get it in your head that you won’t be getting sex from her anymore.

what you do with that is soley up to you. Why not get a pocket p*ssy? They were made for this kind of situation.

it’s a much better solution than using another woman. That situation has SO many ways it can go terribly wrong.


----------



## Rob_1

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Much of the "now" was shaped by past experiences. On a 1 to 10 scale, her libido started as a 3.
> 
> 
> Avid golfers might disagree with that statement.



So, when are you going to ask your wife the question? 

Are you afraid to ask?


----------



## gr8ful1

From everything you’ve written, it would seem your wife would high-five you about your plan to outsource sex. So the real question is this: why are you so afraid of your wife to talk openly about this?


----------



## Beach123

gr8ful1 said:


> From everything you’ve written, it would seem your wife would high-five you about your plan to outsource sex. So the real question is this: why are you so afraid of your wife to talk openly about this?


because she is the boss with all the power. She makes all the decisions and he follows like her puppy dog.

she doesn’t care that she isn’t meeting his needs. She cares that she gets things her way by always being in charge.

most women don’t respect a man who doesn’t take charge. That’s why you are in this backwards situation.

and all the justification about your terrific life with your wife is just denial. It can’t be that great when your needs aren’t met and she calls all the shots… right down to always being the driver in the car.
She is the Mommy role and you play the role of her child - as long as you don’t try and change her system.


----------



## HouseDad-NestEmpty

RebuildingMe said:


> Your thread is no different then the countless others on this forum. Sex starved husbands. The only difference with yours is that you still praise your wife, make excuses for her and want to change nothing in your life and marriage. Therefore, there is just no hope for you. You will be the town masturbating nudist clown for the next 30 years. Why? Because you justify it. All of it.






We get along great as best friends and partners for life partners.


HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Not your typical marriage. Not typical advice.
> 
> I'm new here and will probably be posting quite a few comments. If my beliefs and opinions don't fit yours, please respect the fact that we have different life journeys. Here's my story:
> 
> Throughout my childhood my mom's FIVE divorces convinced me to be extremely careful about who I marry so that I would never need to be concerned about divorce. To ensure that my marriage would last forever, I avoided rushing into long-term commitments. I drafted a checklist of traits that I wanted in a wife. Because I was determined to know that our marriage vows literally meant, "For better or worse, in sickness and in health, until death do we part," one of the most critical traits I sought in a wife was that she would be the type of person who would stick with me to the end of time. I want us to someday become one of those wrinkly cute couples still in love and enjoying 50th, 60th, or 70th anniversary celebration surrounded by grandkids.
> 
> After I graduated from college, I relocated for a job, dated a few girls, and got serious enough with one of them that I practically lived with her for the 3 1/2 years before we walked down the aisle. During that time, I found that she fulfilled most of the criteria on my wish-list in a spouse. (Not all... but most. Since she met some of the most important hard-to-find trait combinations on my list, I sacrificed the less important factors. Nobody is perfect. Decide your priorities carefully.)
> 
> Before we got married, we tried to share our marital hopes and expectations in advance. I told her that I wanted to either have TWO kids or NONE. I hoped to have them be born two years apart. She agreed. We crossed our fingers that they would be a boy and a girl, in that order.
> 
> A year after our wedding, I started working from home earning a decent income and paying the bills. She returned to college for a higher degree to advance her career as a medical professional.
> 
> Soon after I began working from home I realized that there really was no need for wearing clothes around the house. I mainly got dressed when we had to go somewhere -- the grocery store or whatever. When my wife asked me why I was naked so much, I asked her if it bothers her. She said, "It's fine with me. I like the scenery." We discussed it further and made it official. I was a full-time Naturist. She had one request. She said, "Because I don't feel comfortable about my own body or being nude around other people, all I ask is that when we go to nudist gatherings or resorts together, don't expect me to take my clothes off." The next day, she revised her request further. She encouraged me to start visiting nudist resorts and beaches without her. She apologetically asked that I let her stay home rather than expecting her to tag along to those places. What she ultimately explained was that she has her own weekend hobbies that she would rather pursue (gardening, restoring antique furniture, etc.) that don't require having her husband right there with her ALL the time. She had seen for herself that nudism is about as non-sexual as a trip to Walmart. She expected that I would enjoy myself and would be eternally grateful to her for it. Plus, since I was ALWAYS home, she would kinda like to occasionally have the house to herself.
> 
> After her graduation, she got a corporate job downtown. I continued to grow my business. Three years after we got married, we became parents. It was a girl. Although I had expected that my wife would either quit her job or switch to part-time to take care of baby #1 and future baby #2, it became apparent that she had neither the patience nor personality for staying home and taking care of young kids. She was a career girl. I saw that she would be awesome with teenagers and adults. But, if she felt trapped into dealing with kids younger than teenagers, she would go insane. Our kids would probably end up in therapy blaming a neurotic mother for all of their problems. This was a painful realization for me since I was planning to build a business while my wife ran the household. We each knew that I had a lot more patience than she did. Career assessments even showed that my personality was best suited for being a "stay-at-home parent". Since neither of us was willing to put our kids in daycare, we agreed that I should put my career on hold to become a 24/7 dad while she pursued a career that brought home a steady paycheck to pay the bills. Whatever money I could earn during kids' naps would be our "extra income".
> 
> We hoped that our second child would be born around two years after the first. It took five. We concluded with two girls born five years apart, and no sons. My wife got her tubes snipped. And, yes, having daughters rather than sons limited my ability to continue utilizing my wife's previous permission to live as a full-time Naturist. But, that's okay.
> 
> Fast-forward to today: Our oldest daughter finished college and entered grown-up life. Our youngest daughter is almost finished with high school and will soon be off to college. My wife and I are making plans for the "empty nest" chapters of our lives.
> 
> All of that being said, our love for each other has grown deeper over time. We are close and affectionate soulmates doing lots of hand-holding and cuddling. We have never had sex outside of our marriage. However, her libido faded into oblivion, especially when menopause hit. Plenty of love, but no sex. A couple of years ago she floated the suggestion that I get on apps for one-night-stands. The basic idea is that we would keep our love, marriage, and romance intact while I hook up with others interested in having sex as a purely recreational non-committal activity. I haven't explored her suggestion, but it's on my mind.
> 
> One of my top missions in life is for my wife to feel lucky to have me as her husband. We're sticking together. Meanwhile, neither of us wants her inability and disinterest in sex to plunge me into utter sexual starvation. So, what I'm envisioning for our future is that we will remain soulmates, married in every way EXCEPT for sex. Knowing her, I can imagine the following dialogue happening:
> 
> Husband: "Hey, Dear. Some married chick I met on Tinder wants to have a quickie, like... ASAP today. She said her husband is home and wants to watch. Should I go for it? They live 10-minutes away."
> 
> Wife: "As long as it's quick. The roast will be done around 5:30 and the movie starts at 7:00."
> 
> Husband: "Ya, if she looks anything like her profile picture, it should be quick. I sure do love you!"
> 
> Wife: "I love you, too, Dear. You'd better wrap that rascal!"
> 
> Husband: "My profile says 'No fluid swaps'. I've got extra condoms in case she wants to go an extra round, but I'll pull out just in case. I printed their address and phone number for you. I'll text you when I get there and when I finish. Are you sure you're okay with me doing this? I mean... our marriage? Us?"
> 
> Wife: "Don't worry. You have my heart and I have yours. As for your ****... I don't want it. What you do with that thing is none of my business. Seriously. Have a good time, babe. Don't catch germs and don't be late for dinner. Oh... for dessert, do you want apple pie or cookies?"
> 
> Husband: "I'd rather have YOU for dessert." [wink wink]
> 
> Wife: "Ha! Not gonna happen. Maybe you should do her husband, too." [LOL!]
> 
> Husband: [LOL!] "Pie sounds good. She said it's just a quickie. I'll probably be back within an hour or two. Do you want me to tell you all about it?"
> 
> Wife: "Nope. Sex is gross. Just have fun. And, appreciate the fact that your wife is satisfying your sexual needs even though I'm not the one you're having sex with."
> 
> Husband: "When I look into her eyes I'll imagine that she is you."
> 
> Wife: [laughs] "You're full of it. Don't keep her waiting." [Gives me a passionate smooch at the door with a hug and a squeeze on my butt] "Love you."
> 
> Husband: "Love you too! And, THANK YOU!"
> 
> Wife: "Tell them your wife thanks THEM."
> 
> I'm only mentioning this scenario and other private background information because that is what prompted me to look for marriage forums to read comments by and for other married couples. Other than knowing that my wife and I will probably never have sex again, our marriage and our relationship is great.


Considering that during the 3 days since I posted this, it has gotten more replies than I can possibly reply to.

My original post was intended as an "introduction" as a newbie on TAM, so that others would be able to reference some of the back story when I write specific topics under pertinent categories. The original post blew up.

I need to share a bit of unexpected news. We had the house to ourselves for the weekend and slept in, woke slowly to the sound of summertime crickets as the cool morning air caressed us through the open windows, and... we did it! (Note: While doing what we could to minimize physical discomfort.)

I expect to post more replies and new threads over the days and weeks ahead. Can't do it right now. We've got plans for a bike ride and pickleball.

One of the questions that keeps coming up is "So... no sex, yet you keep saying your relationship is 'GREAT'! What's so great about it?" I don't know where to begin. Maybe it's that I've seen my mom blaze through six marriages and five divorces. I've seen what "bad" marriages look like. It's usually incompatible personalities. It's often people who married for "looks", despite having clashing personalities. We just get along very well. We work together, play together, and have so many interests in common. We rarely disagree about anything since we have such similar mindsets about issues, politics, people, relationships, work, recreation, and life in general. We are best friends.

Gotta go. Will type other replies in the coming days.


----------



## Livvie

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> We get along great as best friends and partners for life partners.
> 
> 
> Considering that during the 3 days since I posted this, it has gotten more replies than I can possibly reply to.
> 
> My original post was intended as an "introduction" as a newbie on TAM, so that others would be able to reference some of the back story when I write specific topics under pertinent categories. The original post blew up.
> 
> I need to share a bit of unexpected news. We had the house to ourselves for the weekend and slept in, woke slowly to the sound of summertime crickets as the cool morning air caressed us through the open windows, and... we did it! (Note: While doing what we could to minimize physical discomfort.)
> 
> I expect to post more replies and new threads over the days and weeks ahead. Can't do it right now. We've got plans for a bike ride and pickleball.
> 
> One of the questions that keeps coming up is "So... no sex, yet you keep saying your relationship is 'GREAT'! What's so great about it?" I don't know where to begin. Maybe it's that I've seen my mom blaze through six marriages and five divorces. I've seen what "bad" marriages look like. It's usually incompatible personalities. It's often people who married for "looks", despite having clashing personalities. We just get along very well. We work together, play together, and have so many interests in common. We rarely disagree about anything since we have such similar mindsets about issues, politics, people, relationships, work, recreation, and life in general. We are best friends.
> 
> Gotta go. Will type other replies in the coming days.


He said pickleball!!!!


----------



## Beach123

That’s great news you’re having a great weekend. 
I mainly said you get along because she makes the rules and you follow. If that works for you, ok. Best of luck.


----------



## Twodecades

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Not your typical marriage. Not typical advice.
> 
> I'm new here and will probably be posting quite a few comments. If my beliefs and opinions don't fit yours, please respect the fact that we have different life journeys. Here's my story:
> 
> Throughout my childhood my mom's FIVE divorces convinced me to be extremely careful about who I marry so that I would never need to be concerned about divorce. To ensure that my marriage would last forever, I avoided rushing into long-term commitments. I drafted a checklist of traits that I wanted in a wife. Because I was determined to know that our marriage vows literally meant, "For better or worse, in sickness and in health, until death do we part," one of the most critical traits I sought in a wife was that she would be the type of person who would stick with me to the end of time. I want us to someday become one of those wrinkly cute couples still in love and enjoying 50th, 60th, or 70th anniversary celebration surrounded by grandkids.
> 
> After I graduated from college, I relocated for a job, dated a few girls, and got serious enough with one of them that I practically lived with her for the 3 1/2 years before we walked down the aisle. During that time, I found that she fulfilled most of the criteria on my wish-list in a spouse. (Not all... but most. Since she met some of the most important hard-to-find trait combinations on my list, I sacrificed the less important factors. Nobody is perfect. Decide your priorities carefully.)
> 
> Before we got married, we tried to share our marital hopes and expectations in advance. I told her that I wanted to either have TWO kids or NONE. I hoped to have them be born two years apart. She agreed. We crossed our fingers that they would be a boy and a girl, in that order.
> 
> A year after our wedding, I started working from home earning a decent income and paying the bills. She returned to college for a higher degree to advance her career as a medical professional.
> 
> Soon after I began working from home I realized that there really was no need for wearing clothes around the house. I mainly got dressed when we had to go somewhere -- the grocery store or whatever. When my wife asked me why I was naked so much, I asked her if it bothers her. She said, "It's fine with me. I like the scenery." We discussed it further and made it official. I was a full-time Naturist. She had one request. She said, "Because I don't feel comfortable about my own body or being nude around other people, all I ask is that when we go to nudist gatherings or resorts together, don't expect me to take my clothes off." The next day, she revised her request further. She encouraged me to start visiting nudist resorts and beaches without her. She apologetically asked that I let her stay home rather than expecting her to tag along to those places. What she ultimately explained was that she has her own weekend hobbies that she would rather pursue (gardening, restoring antique furniture, etc.) that don't require having her husband right there with her ALL the time. She had seen for herself that nudism is about as non-sexual as a trip to Walmart. She expected that I would enjoy myself and would be eternally grateful to her for it. Plus, since I was ALWAYS home, she would kinda like to occasionally have the house to herself.
> 
> After her graduation, she got a corporate job downtown. I continued to grow my business. Three years after we got married, we became parents. It was a girl. Although I had expected that my wife would either quit her job or switch to part-time to take care of baby #1 and future baby #2, it became apparent that she had neither the patience nor personality for staying home and taking care of young kids. She was a career girl. I saw that she would be awesome with teenagers and adults. But, if she felt trapped into dealing with kids younger than teenagers, she would go insane. Our kids would probably end up in therapy blaming a neurotic mother for all of their problems. This was a painful realization for me since I was planning to build a business while my wife ran the household. We each knew that I had a lot more patience than she did. Career assessments even showed that my personality was best suited for being a "stay-at-home parent". Since neither of us was willing to put our kids in daycare, we agreed that I should put my career on hold to become a 24/7 dad while she pursued a career that brought home a steady paycheck to pay the bills. Whatever money I could earn during kids' naps would be our "extra income".
> 
> We hoped that our second child would be born around two years after the first. It took five. We concluded with two girls born five years apart, and no sons. My wife got her tubes snipped. And, yes, having daughters rather than sons limited my ability to continue utilizing my wife's previous permission to live as a full-time Naturist. But, that's okay.
> 
> Fast-forward to today: Our oldest daughter finished college and entered grown-up life. Our youngest daughter is almost finished with high school and will soon be off to college. My wife and I are making plans for the "empty nest" chapters of our lives.
> 
> All of that being said, our love for each other has grown deeper over time. We are close and affectionate soulmates doing lots of hand-holding and cuddling. We have never had sex outside of our marriage. However, her libido faded into oblivion, especially when menopause hit. Plenty of love, but no sex. A couple of years ago she floated the suggestion that I get on apps for one-night-stands. The basic idea is that we would keep our love, marriage, and romance intact while I hook up with others interested in having sex as a purely recreational non-committal activity. I haven't explored her suggestion, but it's on my mind.
> 
> One of my top missions in life is for my wife to feel lucky to have me as her husband. We're sticking together. Meanwhile, neither of us wants her inability and disinterest in sex to plunge me into utter sexual starvation. So, what I'm envisioning for our future is that we will remain soulmates, married in every way EXCEPT for sex. Knowing her, I can imagine the following dialogue happening:
> 
> Husband: "Hey, Dear. Some married chick I met on Tinder wants to have a quickie, like... ASAP today. She said her husband is home and wants to watch. Should I go for it? They live 10-minutes away."
> 
> Wife: "As long as it's quick. The roast will be done around 5:30 and the movie starts at 7:00."
> 
> Husband: "Ya, if she looks anything like her profile picture, it should be quick. I sure do love you!"
> 
> Wife: "I love you, too, Dear. You'd better wrap that rascal!"
> 
> Husband: "My profile says 'No fluid swaps'. I've got extra condoms in case she wants to go an extra round, but I'll pull out just in case. I printed their address and phone number for you. I'll text you when I get there and when I finish. Are you sure you're okay with me doing this? I mean... our marriage? Us?"
> 
> Wife: "Don't worry. You have my heart and I have yours. As for your ****... I don't want it. What you do with that thing is none of my business. Seriously. Have a good time, babe. Don't catch germs and don't be late for dinner. Oh... for dessert, do you want apple pie or cookies?"
> 
> Husband: "I'd rather have YOU for dessert." [wink wink]
> 
> Wife: "Ha! Not gonna happen. Maybe you should do her husband, too." [LOL!]
> 
> Husband: [LOL!] "Pie sounds good. She said it's just a quickie. I'll probably be back within an hour or two. Do you want me to tell you all about it?"
> 
> Wife: "Nope. Sex is gross. Just have fun. And, appreciate the fact that your wife is satisfying your sexual needs even though I'm not the one you're having sex with."
> 
> Husband: "When I look into her eyes I'll imagine that she is you."
> 
> Wife: [laughs] "You're full of it. Don't keep her waiting." [Gives me a passionate smooch at the door with a hug and a squeeze on my butt] "Love you."
> 
> Husband: "Love you too! And, THANK YOU!"
> 
> Wife: "Tell them your wife thanks THEM."
> 
> I'm only mentioning this scenario and other private background information because that is what prompted me to look for marriage forums to read comments by and for other married couples. Other than knowing that my wife and I will probably never have sex again, our marriage and our relationship is great.


All of your conjecture is pointless until you actually have a frank discussion with your wife. And the reality of what you envision is likely quite different than your daydreams.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

Livvie said:


> He said pickleball!!!!


Insert Beavis and Butthead laugh here.


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## frenchpaddy

Who's the most popular guy at the nudist colony? 

The one who can carry a cup of coffee in each hand and a dozen doughnuts.
sorry I could not help that one ,


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## frenchpaddy

😁😁😁😇😇😇My neighbor has been mad at his wife for sunbathing nude. I personally am on the fence.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

BigDaddyNY said:


> @HouseDad-NestEmpty The more you describe your wife the worse things get in my view. She actually sounds like a very unloving woman.
> 
> Sex is gross, except when it was for something she wanted (kids), then 4-6 times a week was okay.
> She couldn't even properly love and care for her own children. They were just too much.
> She's a control freak.
> She doesn't like your driving.
> She thought you did a crap job managing the household
> She doesn't have the time or desire to help fulfill your sexual needs, in fact she is disgusted by your sexuality and willing to publicly disrespect you about it.
> 
> This is your ideal wife? Your soulmate? I'm sorry, but you have some serious rose colored glasses on.
> 
> Go ahead and have that discussion about opening the marriage, but there is no way this woman is going to go along with you getting sex outside the marriage. And the only way you will get what you described, "that any meet-ups be purely "physical", with no dating, mouth-kissing, romance, or relationship, and with no stings attached" means you are going to have to pay for it. You will have 0 luck just finding someone that isn't even interest in kissing while having sex. You are describing a sex worker. Now, will your wife be willing to foot the bill for a weekly hooker for you? LOL, we know the answer.
> 
> Also, 50 somethings and older do like having sex. My wife 54 and loves it. We have many similar aged friends that we know are sexually active with each other. It isn't all that unusual.



Based upon the way she has been talking for the past few months, and especially during the past few weeks, I actually believed that it was unlikely that my wife and I would have sex with each other ever again. Since marriage is "forever", I rationalized that negotiating alternative arrangements within our marriage would be the only way that I would ever get to experience sex with anyone other than myself. "Outsourcing sex" would definitely be a last resort. Fortunately, after yesterday's surprise affection, there is hope after all.

We have both been working too hard for too many hours. Our schedules have been misaligned. We almost never lay in bed together and awake at the same time unless it's because we have work-induced insomnia. Since she started working full-time from home at the start of the pandemic, when she wakes up in the middle of the night, she goes straight to the computer to start working. From talking about how great it was that we made love, then took time to enjoy the day, we concluded that one way or another, she needs to get out of that job. The company used to be an excellent place to work. Now everybody she knows who exited the company says that leaving it was the best thing they've ever done for their careers and that they were able to get their lives back on track. Getting out from under that miserable job is our top priority.

However... this exercise of reaching out through TAM gave me a lot to think about. I haven't even been a lurker. I found the site and posted right away without knowing the community. I'll make a list of "take-aways" from the online conversation.

The part about becoming a "Naturist" got people's attention. That conversation with my wife was 25 years ago, and the practice was short-lived, having visited a couple of local gatherings to see if it's for me and lost interest in it. I mentioned the Naturism phase from early in our marriage because it illustrates that my wife is not someone who automatically opposes unconventional arrangements.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty

snowbum said:


> Not sure why you married an asexual woman knowinhly. Pretty odd


She wasn't "asexual" when we got married. I'd say she definitely had a lower libido than my previous girlfriends did, but back then she was willing to do it as often as I was.

She started suggesting that she might be "asexual" after years of seeing gross genital stuff at work, had all of our babies, menopause, vaginal surgery, and intercourse become physically painful. I know it's not uncommon for many women to lose interest in sex as they age. I know it's also not uncommon for men to divorce their wives for lack of sex. I'm not one of those guys.


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