# I miss intimacy



## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

Long story short... been married nearly 18 years, she's 9 years older than me (I'm in my mid 40's). Were in a 400-mile apart LDR before marriage; saw each other every 2-3 weeks, lots of sex/intimacy. Post-marriage, complete reversal (bait and switch)? But I am apparently HD, she not so much. Still, it happened at least once or twice a month.

Wife unexpectedly loses her job in Dec 2009, doesn't find a full-time job until June 2012 (financial strain). In July 2010, her cousin (also an only child, 4 years older than her, they were like brother and sister) commits suicide after losing both his parents to cancer and his 2nd marriage falls apart. This was another huge blow. I should add that the job loss for her was a recurring thing (usually not her fault: company closing, reorg, numbers game), but this was by far the longest time off work (meanwhile, I've been continuously employed for 20+ years). I've been supportive when she has lost these jobs and she always showed diligence in searching for a new job, but this time she sat back for months and had to be "prodded" to look for something.

I had some job stressors of my own (long-term employer going out of business, sold assets a year ago, I parachuted into a new job immediately only for it to become a house of horrors, IT sweat shop, working night and day with no break/vacation/let up. Bailed in December, new new job is much, much better).

My wife has withdrawn from our marriage. Last intimacy we had was in October of 2010. She has withdrawn to the point that there is no contact of any kind between us. I've tried discussing this with her but she just kind of shuts down. Says she has no desire. This puzzles the heck out of me... She's "had a very good time" every time we've had intimacy (things have, um, happened, that never happened with anyone else, and I totally believe this). Try different things to keep the acts from going stale.

Asked her to talk to her doctor during yearly physical, she "forgot". 6 months later she goes back, he checks her testosterone levels, low, prescibes topical cream, which she fills, and never ever uses/"I don't know how to use this". So no real desire on her part to fix this. Ask her if she's depressed, she denied it. She is post-menopausal but the issue certainly isn't related to dryness/lubrication.

I start researching. Read 5 love languages (I'm touch and acts of service), Married Man Sex Primer (have some beta traits, quickly work to improve). Nada. Start the 180 (stop doing things for her, don't beg for or even ask for sex).

I never knew it was possible to be married and feel so lonely. I miss sex, sure, but I miss the intimacy, the touch, the feeling that I am loved, and the feeling of loving someone with all your heart and soul. My feelings of love for my spouse have definitely diminished.

I have never cheated, that's not who I am. For financial reasons (we own a house together, have some debts piled up during her long unemployment), plus 2 elderly dogs (which provide me with the only "affection" I get these days :-( I can't leave. But I am so lonely and desperate for touch... (even a hug, a kiss)... I know I sound beta here, I don't let this show but need an outlet.

Counseling? Sure, I'd love to go. Can't afford to pay it right now (one of my dogs got very sick, racked up a $4k vet bill I don't know how I'm going to pay). Not sure she'd go.

I just try to get through each day... thank goodness for my dogs, as long as they're still around. They are my world. 

Oh, should also mention... she has been on Effexor for slight depression post-cardiac surgery in 1999. I think she has some depression/other issues going on - some driving errors/getting lost (admittedly in a strange city) and calling me yelling and screaming so bad I thought something had happened to her or her mom... "forgetting" who a friend is. But she has been much, much better recently, making me second-guess my thoughts that something's wrong (until today's episode of losing her car keys, again). 

I mentioned to her once that I thought she had self-esteem issues, and she blew up at me. Again, since the job change, we've been going to bed earlier, getting more sleep, and she's been good, but then this key business... aaargh. 

"IT Sweat Shop" employer had an EAP which I never ever had time to use (since I worked most of my waking hours). New one is a smaller, family-owned business with much fewer options. 

I know there's a lot here, just wondering if anyone has any advice or suggestions. I admit to sometimes daydreaming of being with someone, a true life partner, who loves me and whom I love. I hate living in this dream world, but it's all I can do to try to keep some hope and sanity...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She might just not be into sex at all. I feel for you. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Is she still taking the Effexor? Did she read five love languages? Have you talked to her about how you are feeling? Do you ever go out and enjoy time together? I know from experience if someone is not feeling well mentally, it can cause minor things to be major blow ups.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

Kermitty said:


> Is she still taking the Effexor? Did she read five love languages? Have you talked to her about how you are feeling? Do you ever go out and enjoy time together? I know from experience if someone is not feeling well mentally, it can cause minor things to be major blow ups.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, she's still on the Effexor. I doubt she's read the book, we discussed it (I told her about it, and what mine were) and I gave her the book. Yes, we do spend time together, do things, and we talk. When I bring up issues, she just goes radio silent. 

I am not always "Debbie Downer" and try to bring humor/levity to life... the blow-ups are rare and usually it's me just not able to deal with stuff (the "lost keys" incident yesterday sent me over the edge for a few minutes - no, I don't hit/there's been no physical abuse on either of our parts). I have to admit that I was probably more of a "ticking time bomb" last fall when my last job was consuming all of my waking moments...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

I truly sympathize with your wife. Those experiences she has endured (death of loved ones - aunt, uncle, cousin; job loss) are individually the most stressful things we can go through. Then, you add the circumstances (the suicide, the repeated job losses) and that's enough to put anyone in a serious funk.

Nonetheless, she is not even trying to help herself, and that's always unacceptable. You've told her that there's a problem, she fogs on mentioning her problem to the doctor, waits for six months to do the follow-up, and refuses treatment for a genuine medical issue.

So, it's gotten to the point where she just completely tunes out. That she yells at you for even suggesting she has a problem (rather than owning up to it) and the 180 has failed to work (assuming you are doing it right) are really bad signs. That sh!t needs to stop now, or you need to move on. Are you really prepared to go like this for 20 or 30 more years?

You need to get her to counseling. I know you work at a smaller place, but presumably you have health insurance? Does that health insurance have a mental health benefit? Note that lacking an EAP does not matter much. The EAP just coordinates and explains the other benefits you have; it does not provide much on it's own. Even if you have to borrow for it, you will have demonstrated how important this is to you.

Then, you need to issue your wife the ultimatum. You are not prepared to do this for the next 20 or 30 years. She has been worsening for four years - at least using the relationship as a barometer. Not even having a job for a year has helped matters.

She has two choices. She needs to get the health care she needs (physical and emotional) and follow the recommendations (i.e. no refusing medication), or she gets an attorney. If she's reevaluated her life after these trials and has decided you no longer fit in, you'll respect that and work with her to separate graciously. But her using you as her backstop while she beats you up for expressing your needs stops today.

Trust me - failing to stop this behavior now will only embolden her. Life is full of trials, and we need to have appropriate coping skills. Right now, she does not have them, and it's all on you.

Your future, as it stands right now, is a recurring cycle of bad behavior from her (if she manages to break this current spell). What happens when she loses a job again? Loses more loved ones? Has her own health scare? If you have a serious issue of your own, is she going to back you up, or berate you / stick her head in the sand / bail out on you for adding to her woes?


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

ZaphodBeeblebrox said:


> Long story short... been married nearly 18 years, she's 9 years older than me (I'm in my mid 40's). Were in a 400-mile apart LDR before marriage; saw each other every 2-3 weeks, lots of sex/intimacy. Post-marriage, complete reversal (bait and switch)? But I am apparently HD, she not so much. Still, it happened at least once or twice a month.
> 
> Wife unexpectedly loses her job in Dec 2009, doesn't find a full-time job until June 2012 (financial strain). In July 2010, her cousin (also an only child, 4 years older than her, they were like brother and sister) commits suicide after losing both his parents to cancer and his 2nd marriage falls apart. This was another huge blow. I should add that the job loss for her was a recurring thing (usually not her fault: company closing, reorg, numbers game), but this was by far the longest time off work (meanwhile, I've been continuously employed for 20+ years). I've been supportive when she has lost these jobs and she always showed diligence in searching for a new job, but this time she sat back for months and had to be "prodded" to look for something.
> 
> ...


My wife and I did the 5 Love Languages. You can't do it yourself. Both parties have to buy in. 

My wife was in a depression over loosing 2 sisters, and I think your wife is showing signs of being depressed. 

I told my wife I missed the intimacy, and she almost scoffed at me...She was hostile, negative, and flew into rages....I finally said I was thinking about geting a divorce......

It seemed like we both had a moment of clarity...We both knew we had too much invested in our marriage to just quit...It was then that we did the 5 LL program. The results were astonishing...The change wasn't so much in my wife, as in me....

I realised how much I really loved her, and started showing that love more...The result is that she has blossomed into a warm loving sexual woman...The one I married 47 years ago. 

We have long leasurely sessions of cuddling, talking, and making love like honeymooners.....She reads my TAM posts behind my back, and I recently wrote about how turned on I was about her perfume and silky blouse she wore...Yesterday she unpacked her silky lingere.......

Was it worth the effort? You tell me...

I will say that the book is not the key. There are a dozen or more books out there that would probably work as well...The real key is that BOTH partners want to make the committment to love each other....


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

No, I can't do this much longer, no. I'm trying to get her to realize that our relationship is dying, that she needs to take care of herself physically and mentally (she is also an insulin-dependent diabetic that had major cardiac surgery 14 years ago). And that we need to work on things. I do communicate with her, do my best to talk calmly and don't let my anger/frustration/resentment show...


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I really feel for you and I hope it all works out for the better.

She has to take the bull by the horns and do what's best for your relationship and not just herself.

She might just have a LD and that's it for you.

She should be taking care of herself for herself and you.

She has recovered from the surgery 14 years ago?


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

Yes, she has recovered. Was touch-and-go for awhile. Needless to say there was about a 6 month period there where nothing happened, and I was totally OK/understanding.

Remember that line from "When Harry Met Sally"? "Women need a reason to have sex, men just need a time and a place." <-think this is apropos. She has no interest/desire, whether through life changes/depression or being angry/resentful (she commented in the past that I wasn't supportive when she lost her job, which is not true, I knew she wasn't at fault but only started to pressure her about finding something after nearly a year passed). She knows that I have nowhere to go and can't/won't leave, at least for another year or so.

As I said in another thread, I love my wife, but I can't see myself keeping this up going forward. It's not just sex... there is little to no touching/hugs/kissing. She stopped really kissing me nearly 10 years ago, just during foreplay. The lack of touch thing is new in the last 3-4 years. I'll say something about it, and she'll be good for 3-4 days and then fall back... Actions speak louder than words.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

ZaphodBeeblebrox said:


> Remember that line from "When Harry Met Sally"? "Women need a reason to have sex, men just need a time and a place." <-think this is apropos. .


This is correct.
What reason does she have to have sex with you? Think about these questions:

Will she lose her marriage to you if she does not have sex with you?
Would she care if she lost her marriage to you?
Do you give her a reason to want to stay married to you?
Does she get anything of value from you so that she would want to give you something of value in return?
Does she get anything out of giving?
Is her life fun? Do you create a good fulfilling life for her?


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

"As I said in another thread, I love my wife, but I can't see myself keeping this up going forward. It's not just sex... there is little to no touching/hugs/kissing. She stopped really kissing me nearly 10 years ago, just during foreplay. The lack of touch thing is new in the last 3-4 years. I'll say something about it, and she'll be good for 3-4 days and then fall back... Actions speak louder than words."


I couldn't handle your situation and I would of moved on.

She should be making the effort but she isn't.

Maybe comfy and bored?

Maybe needs meds to get her hormones in check?

If she knows you are sexually and physically starved and not happy, then from that point, its up to her to change.

Actions do speak volumes, very true and after a while, talk is cheap, so very true.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

She must be in her mid 50's? Menopause age.

"Nearly 64% of menopausal women with diabetes experience sexual dysfunction, and 41% of women with diabetes and not in menopause experience it."

Sexual dsyfunction is usually termed as loss of sex drive when diabetes is concerned. nerve damage affects women as well as men, we just don't "talk" about it. 

Lack of touching, at all, is alarming. Depression resentment or both.

You can lead... and just be affectionate. Kiss, hug. Nothing else intended, just... affection. Do it anyways. Be playful about it.


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## stedfin (Apr 14, 2012)

9 years OLDER?

Wow.

I'm surprised you got as much sex for as long as you did.


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## vegasruby (Apr 30, 2013)

People use the word intimate for the word sex. People can have an intimate conversation or a intimate dinner party and sex is not any part of it. My husband says he wants to be intimate. No, he wants sex. He is using the word wrong.


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