# When is enough enough?



## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

People seem to get divorced a lot these days. Is there ever a time when its unsave-able?

Surely it gets to the point (kids, married long time) where its just too difficult to extricate yourself?

Read with interest that thread about why men finally have enough.

Really tough time at the moment and I think back some days to the arguments we've had over the years and the way shes treated me. And to be honest - it really is bad sometimes.

But then I think if we split, I wont see the kids as much, I'll be all alone, I wont have any money etc. And I know it'd be a really nasty split.

Just how much do you 'put up with' before its too much....

My wife is a complete PITA at the moment. She really is a complete nightmare at times. Shes selfish, spiteful, nasty to name a few things.

But despite this, if we split I know I'd miss her (when shes being ok at least). 

IS that worth trying to save then?


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## Fighting For Happiness (Mar 9, 2015)

Yes. You just need an education that is time consuming but readily available here and on other websites. 

I saved my marriage three times over 15 years. Glad I did and made the exact same deductions thinking about losing it all that you did.

Look into "doing the 180" 

The best technique I learned when fighting cats and dogs with my wife was to agree with her whenever she made a valid point. 

Never miss an opportunity to verbalize agreement when she makes a fair point.

Don't stop calling bull$hit but make sure you NEVER miss an opportunity to agree when she makes a valid point. 

I will call it fighting fair and with honor. It creates a lot of goodwill

Second piece of advice is to pick your battles. If it isn't that big of a deal. Give in. If it is a big deal, stand your ground. 

I will call it never being petty. 

Good luck. 

You will get lots of help here. Don't agree with everything you read.. There is lots of bad advice also from some bitter people and some dummies. 

I might be one of them for example LOL


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

Fighting For Happiness said:


> Yes. You just need an education that is time consuming but readily available here and on other websites.
> 
> I saved my marriage three times over 15 years. Glad I did and made the exact same deductions thinking about losing it all that you did.
> 
> ...


Cheers. I think Im fair when I argue (but then I guess so does she lol). I do admit when she makes a point at the moment.

Biggest thing for me at the moment is letting it go and not 'losing' it. Its as if I feel I've got to stick up for myself and not let her walk all over me which she will try to do given half a chance.

She will never ever back down as I've found but I've begun to do the same. As if Im letting myself down if I let her get away with it.

That make any sense?


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## Fighting For Happiness (Mar 9, 2015)

bob1471 said:


> That make any sense?


I don't want to injure you here but it sounds like you have your ego invested and are focused on winning. She is doing the same but you can only influence her by leading by example. It may not work but it is worth trying to.

Change your focus from winning to accomplishing something of value like a breakthrough and practice as much good will as possible by ignoring everything crazy and tell her you like the point she made about x and thank her and tell her it is very helpful. 

If you need a little mindset reset help try this trick. Imagine you just started dating and want to get into her pants, you are really into her and it's been awhile since your soldier got to take a dip and it's last call of you want to get super motivated. 

No matter what, Be patience and let the crazy **** go and refocus onto something useful by grabbing onto the good stuff if there is any and letting all the crazy **** go.

The result can be she will notice the level of decency, care and patience you are offering and that will subconsciously shame her into not be such a complete PITA

I have done this with great success but patience is the vital ingredient and key. In the end she will respect you and might even seek your input on things that matter. It's can restore your power because you deserve it back. 

Hope this helps


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

bob1471 said:


> Surely it gets to the point (kids, married long time) where its just too difficult to extricate yourself?


It's never too difficult to extricate yourself. 

It's just a matter of how much it is going to "cost" you. (Cost being not solely defined as financial).

We all have a limited amount of time on this Earth. 

The question you need to ask yourself very simply is this: Is it worth the cost for the potential of future happiness, or would you rather wallow in a sea of misery for your remaining years on this planet.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

The choice is yours. After 24 years, I decided to leave, and despite all the downsides you mentioned (which also applied to me), I found that life was immensely (incredibly/marvelously/etc.) better without her.

BTW, I'd tried everything to fix or save the marriage first, to no avail.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

When its sore.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

OOps - sorry!! You're talking about marriage? Ahhhhh.... ;-)

I think we all have our 'points'. Walking away from a marriage where there are no children involved, no mortgage, no joint debts etc is easy peasy.

Walking away from a marriage with 2.2 children, mortgage, car loans, education expenses, golden retriever, jet ski, Cessna 172 etc is A LOT more difficult.

You start to weigh up the financial and emotional losses.... Wife/husband is a b!tch/ba$tard, lazy, we dont have sex anymore etc etc.....Often the price is too high to pay so you just make do with what you have.
You try not to fight or let him/her get to you. You do your own things, play with your 172, golf etc and when you feel horny you have a wank using you hand AND imagination....

There are lots of we guys in that position....some girlies too. Sad but thats life.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

askari said:


> OOps - sorry!! You're talking about marriage? Ahhhhh.... ;-)
> 
> I think we all have our 'points'. Walking away from a marriage where there are no children involved, no mortgage, no joint debts etc is easy peasy.
> 
> ...


So how is *THIS* NOT an emotional loss? What is the point of keeping a spouse around if you are forced to basically live a solitary life? Makes no sense to me. OP sounds like he is in a situation that he should get out of. When you can look back over the years and admit to how badly you have been treated, and that continue to be treated that way...why keep subjecting yourself to that? OP stated :
My wife is a complete PITA at the moment. She really is a complete nightmare at times. Shes selfish, spiteful, nasty to name a few things." 
Why stay with someone like that? OP, you say you'd miss her if you left....no you wouldnt. Who could miss someone like that? You may miss having someone "there", but you really would not miss HER. Usually enough is enough when you start asking the question, when is enough, enough.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Why stay with someone like that?


Dysfunction. Codependence. Fear. (Pick at least 2.)


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

Fighting For Happiness said:


> I don't want to injure you here but it sounds like you have your ego invested and are focused on winning. She is doing the same but you can only influence her by leading by example. It may not work but it is worth trying to.
> 
> Change your focus from winning to accomplishing something of value like a breakthrough and practice as much good will as possible by ignoring everything crazy and tell her you like the point she made about x and thank her and tell her it is very helpful.
> 
> ...


Worth a try. Does not sound easy though 

Believe me though Im not focused on winning. I just want an easy life. Problem is I've let so much go over the years that now its starting to annoy me a bit.

All Im doing now is sticking up for myself a bit more and not letting her walk over me.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

bob1471 said:


> Worth a try.
> 
> Believe me though Im not focused on winning. I just want an easy life. Problem is I've let so much go over the years that now its starting to annoy me a bit.
> 
> All Im doing now is sticking up for myself a bit more and not letting her walk over me.


You could certainly be my H. He wants an "easy" life, too. Whatever that means, since we have 2 kids with ADHD, one with additional issues, a mortgage, debt, 2 jobs, and basic incompatibility on top of all of it, especially the ability to resolve conflict.

I think you need to shift your focus. That is what I would say to my H (assuming you aren't him!!). I would say don't worry about sticking up for yourself and instead speak your truth clearly. If sticking up for yourself means louder fights, bigger blowups, and more anger, then you haven't gained much. 

But, if you can state your truth without losing it, you will be doing alright. Hope that's the case!


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> So how is *THIS* NOT an emotional loss? What is the point of keeping a spouse around if you are forced to basically live a solitary life? Makes no sense to me. OP sounds like he is in a situation that he should get out of. When you can look back over the years and admit to how badly you have been treated, and that continue to be treated that way...why keep subjecting yourself to that? OP stated :
> My wife is a complete PITA at the moment. She really is a complete nightmare at times. Shes selfish, spiteful, nasty to name a few things."
> Why stay with someone like that? OP, you say you'd miss her if you left....no you wouldnt. Who could miss someone like that? You may miss having someone "there", but you really would not miss HER. Usually enough is enough when you start asking the question, when is enough, enough.


Maybe I should say AT TIMES this applies to her. Not all of the time, just some of the time. I wont doubt that at time she is a complete nightmare as I said though.

We've been together a while and there have bad times before but mostly good times.

Fair enough but as others say its not that easy to get out is it?
Yes I would miss someone, and I would miss her when shes not been bat**** crazy like she is sometimes. I'd miss the kids because undoubtedly I'd see them less than I do now.

Would it all work out if I left? Quite possibly I'd meet someone else etc, get to see my kids and it'd all work out. Or maybe it wouldn't. I'd live on my own, never see my kids, get screwed financially etc. Or god forbid miss the crazy *****.

If I stay? Will it get better? Maybe - we've had bad patches before.

If you said to me, it wont get better ever, and if you leave it'll all work, you'll see the kids, find someone else, then I'd be gone tomorrow to be honest. ITs just deciding whether better to stay or go...

Hard decisions I agree. No kids, not much financial commitment = easier decision. Temporary bad patch or terminal bad patch?


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

SurpriseMyself said:


> You could certainly be my H. He wants an "easy" life, too. Whatever that means, since we have 2 kids with ADHD, one with additional issues, a mortgage, debt, 2 jobs, and basic incompatibility on top of all of it, especially the ability to resolve conflict.
> 
> I think you need to shift your focus. That is what I would say to my H (assuming you aren't him!!). I would say don't worry about sticking up for yourself and instead speak your truth clearly. If sticking up for yourself means louder fights, bigger blowups, and more anger, then you haven't gained much.
> 
> But, if you can state your truth without losing it, you will be doing alright. Hope that's the case!


State your truth sounds good. I do get my point across these days its just hard staying calm at times.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

What does PITA mean?

Regarding "when is enough enough?" - I think only when someone reaches their limit do they realize it's enough.

It's really an individual thing. And specific to the couple/people in the couple.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Jellybeans said:


> What does PITA mean?


Pain in the :moon:


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> What does PITA mean?
> 
> Regarding "when is enough enough?" - I think only when someone reaches their limit do they realize it's enough.
> 
> It's really an individual thing. And specific to the couple/people in the couple.


PAin In the Ass


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> So how is *THIS* NOT an emotional loss? What is the point of keeping a spouse around if you are forced to basically live a solitary life? Makes no sense to me. OP sounds like he is in a situation that he should get out of. When you can look back over the years and admit to how badly you have been treated, and that continue to be treated that way...why keep subjecting yourself to that? OP stated :
> My wife is a complete PITA at the moment. She really is a complete nightmare at times. Shes selfish, spiteful, nasty to name a few things."
> Why stay with someone like that? OP, you say you'd miss her if you left....no you wouldnt. Who could miss someone like that? You may miss having someone "there", but you really would not miss HER. Usually enough is enough when you start asking the question, when is enough, enough.


3X - may I ask.....Are you happily married? 

The reason I ask is because I find that people who are in an emotionally and sexually happy marriage really have no idea what its like to be in a sexless/unhappy marriage.

There are lots of husbands (and wives) who simply stay put because....as the OP says about divorce;

the financial price is very high
the most he will get is joint custody - children mean an awful lot to their parents. I couldn't survive if I only saw my children at weekends etc

So it is often better to stay in a sexless/unhappy marriage (but one where there is no emotional or physical abuse - though some will argue that denying your spouse sex is emotional abuse...) than to leave.

So you stay, but you refocus yourself. Whilst you stay in the marital home being with your children, you start a hobby..you have interests that do not include your wife. You take the children camping etc.

When the children leave home and /or education is paid for, mortgage done etc then leave.


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

askari said:


> There are lots of husbands (and wives) who simply stay put because....as the OP says about divorce;
> 
> the financial price is very high
> the most he will get is joint custody - children mean an awful lot to their parents. I couldn't survive if I only saw my children at weekends etc
> ...


This attitude is likely why adultery is rampant in our society today. 

Rather than doing the correct thing and leaving your spouse so you both can find happiness, instead, one or both will find a f*ck buddy on the side so they can "have their cake and eat it too".

People underestimate the emotional damage inflicted on children when they stay in unhappy marriages. Children imprint from their parents, and if their parents hate one another, the child is going to conclude that their parent's relationship is "the norm" and likely follow suit in their own relationship.

Thus, by staying in an unhappy marriage, you are likely dooming your child to a lifetime of the same mistakes you make.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

askari said:


> 3X - may I ask.....Are you happily married?
> 
> The reason I ask is because I find that people who are in an emotionally and sexually happy marriage really have no idea what its like to be in a sexless/unhappy marriage.
> 
> ...


No, I am not married at all, happily or otherwise. I went through two marriages that ended up miserable, and I ended them both. I wont live the way you are describing. I watched my mother live in misery with my dad for WAY too many years, and promised myself that I would never stay in that kind of situation, and I havent. Life is too short. 



Constable Odo said:


> This attitude is likely why adultery is rampant in our society today.
> 
> Rather than doing the correct thing and leaving your spouse so you both can find happiness, instead, one or both will find a f*ck buddy on the side so they can "have their cake and eat it too".
> 
> ...


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

So many parents think that they are hiding their problems and unhappiness from their kids....well, you're not. Kids are very astute, they see everything.


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## bob1471 (Dec 27, 2013)

Well things have been a bit better lately - sometimes anyway.

I've realised I think that 95% of the time we get on great. Its just the 5% I cant stand.

Its not just we don't get on that 5% - I really dislike her 5% of the time. Its her whole outlook on life sometimes, the way she thinks, the way she treats me. Her stupid opinons and ideas she gets in her head, the way she thinks shes something special sometimes.

So is it enough for the 95%? Hmmmm


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Never put up with the unacceptable. Either change your marriage or get out. Unless it really is acceptable to you, then stay.


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