# My Own Worst Enemy....need to know



## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

Hi All, 
I've been looking through this site and decided to post because I can see I'm not alone.

I'll try and summarize as best as i can. 
I've been with my husband since I was 15. Got married at 23.... I am now 34 with 2 boys (3 and 5 yrs old) and have been miserable for the last 10 years. For the last 10 years I've had sex on average 4 times a year. (Pregnancy was not difficult both on second try). OVer the years I've dressed up for him, tried to seduce him and there was always an excuse. I even went to therapy the second year of marriage because I thot something was wrong with me. 
I stuck through it and tried to get past it but it would always come back and haunt me, I'd talk to friends and they couldn't shed light on it for me. After my second son was born my husband lost his job because he has a big mouth (he can do no wrong attitude)and I took care of the family for 2.5 years. He didn't pick up much of the responsibility around the house. His lack of motivation was a real turn off. 
I had numerous talks with him about our relationship over the years and me not being happy and any time I brough it up he'd tell me he wants more intimacy (would say that right off the bat cuz I'd always bring that up, but nothing would change)
Last Novemeber I told him I couldn't live like this. He begged me to go to councelling so I did, we went 4 times and because he didn't hear what he wanted he wanted to quit. He can't give me an answer as to why he didn't want to be with me intimatly for 10 years, he says he doesn't know and the past is the past and I shud just forget about that and move forward to make it better. The problem is...after all these years of feeling robbed and neglected I don't see him in that light anymore. I don't love him as a wife loves a husband but more like a friend. We live as great friends and coparents but that's it. Anytime I feel strong and have a talk he starts crying saying he'll do anything to make it better and then gets passive aggressive and says that he's committed to this family and the kids and if I want to leave then that is my decision alone. I end up feeling guilty and always worry about his feelings (very hard for me to speak up because I don't want to hurt his feeling cause of his reaction, crying, pouting etc) I know I should just tell him to grow up but I can honestly say that I've lost respect for him as a man. I'm my own worst enemy, I asked for a trial speration and we did that for a couple of weeks and then he came home and back to the way it was, as friends because I'm to afraid to tell him it's done. What is wrong with me....Please need advice, I feel as though I'm suffering in silence. I'm there for my kids and worry that if I pull the plug they will suffer.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

You're in a tough spot for sure - one in which I have no personal experience or other qualification to have an opinion. Ultimately you have to make a decision - stay or go - at this point it doesn't sound like changing him is an alternative. There are worse things than a divorce for your kids, especially if you can manage to conduct it amicably. If you've done everything you can think of to save the marriage, to communicate to him the seriousness of the situation there is nothing wrong with calling it done, sometimes it just is what it is and it's better to move on. 

I wish had something to say that was a magic bullet for you. Unfortunately you have to decide which is the greater evil, staying in the marriage as it exist or facing the pain, fear, uncertainty and possible new life through divorce. 

Best of Luck to you.


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## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

thank you so much for your response, i guess I've always known the answer but worry too much about his feelings and hold back mine to save an awkward conversation. I have done everything even tried to supress the feelings and keep trying but come full circle and get into that bad place again. He's 40 years old and I feel like I have a 3rd child, he's always looking for praise for the everyday stuff that we all do (ie. cutting grass, bathing kids). we share all those responsibilies but I never expect a thank you because it's what a marriage and being a parent is all about. 
im not even comfortable pulling out my phone if I have a txt because right away hes asking if it's one girlfriend or the other and if I'm on the phone with my mom he'll follow me around or sit next to me ask who it is and then start talking to me when I'm talking to her.
I even tell my friends when they ask me out for dinner no because he tells me to go and then when I get back he lays on the guilt. so I just avoid it all together, He doesn't go out with his friends because he's a downer so no one calls him anymore but he says it's because his kids are his priority, another way to put guilt on but when he wasn't working for 2.5 years I was still paying for daycare. I'm so resnetful of all the years i lost because i thought things could change and I told him that and he said he resents me because of how I'm feeling now, not having feelings toward him. How can I???
I let my emotions and his manipulation control me. what is my problem!!


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## Romance and More (Oct 4, 2011)

You have a lot of time, effort, and emotion invested in this relationship. It would seem that maybe it is worth investing a little more of all of it into the relationship. What I am going to say should be viewed with an open mind, and not defensively; for I understand your pain, and your needs. I am only going to say this so that you may find a way to actually get your needs met, and find the love your relationship once had, or should have. With that in mind, I am going to offer and alternate approach that could eventually get you what you want.

Stop pointing out to him what you are missing. It is obviously pushing him deeper into his depression. Some people are not able to handle criticism, and will instead of making changes, will close up, and or even say and do things to make matters worse. (Case in point, getting fired for mouthing off). Normally, these would be warning signs in a relationship that you could decide to take or leave. But you are already here, and leaving should be a last option. So now you have to learn how to work around this character defect, and make it work for you. So take your needs out of the picture. Yes, you have them, yes you deserve to have them met. We are just focusing on how to lay the groundwork to begin having those needs met. So for now, we have to take them out of the picture.

Learn how to communicate things to him in a manner that won’t have him build a wall. There is already a big wall between you two, and you will have to chip away at that to get close to him again. Yes, I know again, we are focusing on his tender ego, and you are having to do all the work. But again, if it works, then you will not have to keep being the only one working towards a happy relationship. He will re-engage himself. Relationship are work. Anyone that says it is not, is full of it, or in the honeymoon stage.

Begin a path of intimacy. Start slowly, and don’t put sex on your mind. Just simple touches. Snuggling on the couch, bed, and touching whenever possible. Holding hands. Show him you just want to touch. Don’t let him think you are hoping for anything else. If it happens, great, but it will be best received without any pressure. Human touch is very healing, and is very satisfying. Allow yourself to enjoy just holding hands. Say sweet things to him when you have to break the contact. When you go to the bathroom, kiss his neck or shoulder or hand even, and tell him you will be right back honey.

If you can do this, without any time expectancy, or any motive, or any thought of when you will get yours, you just might see the walls come down on their own, and find yourself getting touched and held right back. As soon as you tell him that you miss x, or you want x, then everything will immediately go back to the way it is now. Just keep trying little things that can bring you two closer together, and allow yourself to enjoy the closeness in whatever form it presents itself. 

Eventually, you should be able to begin leading by example in what you want. You should see him responding to you, and even initiating the same contact you are doing. As this happens, you can take it a little further. Slowly, and steady. Till you can work up to some spontaneous sex on the living room floor or something. 
If its not worth doing this, then you already have your answer in what you need to do next. If its not worth the effort, then you need to move on.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

You don't respect him because he doesn't respect himself. I can relate to him from my own experiences - despite my intrinsic deep-rooted optimism, I still brought all the weight of the world down on myself, as I suspect does he. He is hurting and has been hurting for a long time because his needs are rarely met (and not just his needs of you) and he has never figured out how to get those needs met. He expects that good demeanor and devotion should account for something and magically bring in love and appreciation. Meanwhile every time he perceives a lack of respect from those around him his dignity gets stripped away. To me, it is a sign of a "nice guy" that is emotionally burned out.

This is not your fault the way he is, but to recover your M from this you will have to understand your part in this through his eyes which means letting go of your resentment and asking him to let go of his resentment. I can see that you both love each other and both have unmet needs, the solution need not be divorce, but if nothing gives it is inevitable that you will seek to end the marriage. He needs a shakeup to break out of his prison, his way of attaching to things is very selfish but to him it feels like he is just trying to do the right thing and completely unselfish, and he is afraid to move for fear of losing everything he feels he has in this life (a wife and a family that he created).

My advice is to back away from him and make it known, withdraw your presence but don't give up on him or move on without him, be patient a little longer and realize that he absolutely can change himself but he has to do it completely by himself, though not necessarilty alone. He also needs to understand that the only way to change himself is to actually do things differently than what is so ingrained in his way of thinking. When he does something WRONG (ie differently than he was used to) then move a little closer back to him. If he is anything like me he senses a complete lack of basic security, belongingness and safety, he needs to start feeling those again - when he makes a mistake he needs to be rewarded with acceptance, he needs a safe person to admit his flaws to and you are the one he has looked to to be that person. He needs to expand his safe circle, perhaps a close friend (of which I doubt he has many) or an individual counselor.

You are not expected to do all the work here, he has to do the heavy lifting for himself and that will be his therapy. But at this point you need to muster whatever patience you have left, and be prepared to leave (just don't go running away and burning the bridge behind you).

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


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## Romance and More (Oct 4, 2011)

Yes, the issue is his bruised ego, and insecurities. And yes, he is the one who needs to work on that. But if you want him to begin working on it. He needs to begin to feel that things can be turned around. Some people just give up instead of trying harder. But even those can be inspired to do great things with the right motivation. Which is why I am saying you need to take the steps if you want to see the results. It is obvious, he won’t do it alone. So it’s you or nothing. I’m sorry you are in this situation, and it saddens my heart. But if there is some hope in your heart, then maybe just maybe you can be the one to make life wonderful again. After all, the goal is to see you smile once again.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Romance and More said:


> Yes, the issue is his bruised ego, and insecurities. And yes, he is the one who needs to work on that. But if you want him to begin working on it. He needs to begin to feel that things can be turned around. *Some people just give up instead of trying harder*. But even those can be inspired to do great things with the right motivation. Which is why I am saying you need to take the steps if you want to see the results. It is obvious, he won’t do it alone. So it’s you or nothing. I’m sorry you are in this situation, and it saddens my heart. But if there is some hope in your heart, then maybe just maybe you can be the one to make life wonderful again. After all, the goal is to see you smile once again.


R&M I pretty much agree with you about his bruised ego and realizing that he CAN turn it around, but I disagree with the try harder approach - my suspicions are that at some point he has felt like he has tried harder already and it didn't work, perhaps he has "given up" but that may not mean checked out of the marriage, he still probably feels committed to the marriage. He is probably just silently praying for lovemybabies to take the lead and get them out of this mess. The motivation he needs is not to just do more but more importantly to do them differently, which is why I suggest he should be rewarded for making some mistakes (rather than just covering them up like he is probably used to and which doesn't work).


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## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

thank you both for the great insight. Is it normal to feel that you want to work things out for the sake of the family but resent that all those years passed without it ever being a thought to him that I have needs too?
I hear from time to time that men need to be told, but shouldn't it be a natural thing that my husband just wants to be with me as his wife, the person he married. If I have to tell him then to me it's just pointless because he doesn't feel the need to be with me on his own. I find it very hard to let that part go...10 years of thinking there was something wrong with me, that I was unattractive, that I didn't turn him on, that I wasn't worthy of being shown an intimate kind of love. It hurts so badly and when I become emotionally shut down that's when he wants to try?! Now it's a "natuarl" thing?! where was this person for the last 10 years. I went on medication for depression because I couldn't cope with all the feelings and then felt guilty for having my feeling for him go away, but I didn't create those feelings on my own. how many chances can I give?! I've been with him more than half my life and don't want life to pass me by. 
I'm willing to give it a little more time and trying but i don't want to get stuck in the time trap.


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## Romance and More (Oct 4, 2011)

That is why I outlined an alternative approach for Lovemybabies. A method for her to try a different method of communication that might allow him to snap out of his funk, and maybe even feel as if he did it himself. Not so much try harder for her, as try smarter. Obviously, the man shuts down when confronted face to face. So a new method of communication needs to be implemented to make any progress. If progress is to be made. Unfortunately, that puts her back into the role of having to put forth the effort without expecting something in return. Scroll up a little higher to see what I said first.


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## Romance and More (Oct 4, 2011)

Lovemybabies,

I wish I could say that whatever you try will work. Unfortunately, it is up to him to get off his lazy butt. All I am saying is to try a different approach if you are still willing to try to help him find that motivation. But you will have to let go of your resentment somehow. I know it is hard. And I am mad right there with you that you have not had what you deserve. But we all have to let go sometimes. Resentments are not conducive to healthy relationships. You have to get rid of the toxic poisons that have and will continue to kill your relationship. 

The thing to remember is that if what you are doing does not work, don’t continue to do that. Your husband has slipped into self pitty and his own depression. He feels defeated, and hopeless. He is depressed. Now, is it worth it to help him? Is it worth your own effort to try? Or are you ready to say F-it, and quit wasting your time. Whatever you decide either do it all the way or don’t do it at all. I suspect that there has been a lot of half hearted attempts from both of you over the years. Half hearted measures get half hearted results.


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## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

you are right R&M, I'm going to try a different approach one last time. I've invested 19 years with this man...I will try and be as open minded as possible but I also owe it to myself that if he can't change I'm out. No Guilt, no second guessing...
Thank you all so very much xo


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

lovemybabies said:


> thank you both for the great insight. Is it normal to feel that you want to work things out for the sake of the family but resent that all those years passed without it ever being a thought to him that I have needs too? it's common, but I don't think healthy if you want your relationship to progress to somewhere good again. he knows you have needs but probably has no clue what they really are, even when you try to tell him, communication is a lot more than just words - it's giving and receiving information using all the senses and thought processes
> I hear from time to time that men need to be told, but shouldn't it be a natural thing that my husband just wants to be with me as his wife, the person he married.He is still there and has even told you he wants to be (ie if you leave it is "all on you") he wants this to work he just has no clue what to do and is badly stuck in his own logic feedback loop If I have to tell him then to me it's just pointless because he doesn't feel the need to be with me on his own. I find it very hard to let that part go...10 years of thinking there was something wrong with me, that I was unattractive, that I didn't turn him on, that I wasn't worthy of being shown an intimate kind of love. very toxic thinking here, if you put an impossible condition like this on your relationship you are just setting him up to fail, and this part of the equation is completely under your control not his It hurts so badly and when I become emotionally shut down that's when he wants to try?! Now it's a "natuarl" thing?! where was this person for the last 10 years. I went on medication for depression because I couldn't cope with all the feelings and then felt guilty for having my feeling for him go away, but I didn't create those feelings on my own. how many chances can I give?! I've been with him more than half my life and don't want life to pass me by. I completely sympathize for you, your pain is very real, and his actions/inactions are a huge reason, but the reason to let it go is because he hasn't deliberately done this to hurt you, he knows you are in pain and the longer you suffer the more guilt he feels for it and the less prone to fixing his own life he becomes
> I'm willing to give it a little more time and trying but i don't want to get stuck in the time trap. That makes a lot of sense, and I absolutely agree that you need to put your own needs first, the ironic thing about ending the marriage though is that him being on his own will eventually give him the alone time needed for him to start putting his needs first too, which is what will inevitably make him respect himself again and what your marriage desparately needs to recover - the trick is getting it fixed while keeping your family together. It may also just cause more resentment in you. That's the crazy thing I find about divorce is that regardless of what happens the goal for each of you is still the same: to be whole again... he needs to find himself, and you will have to let resentment go to find your own happiness.


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## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

Lon: thank you so much, I do feel there is still hope left now. I think before I would complain, someone would give advice and I would shoot it down because I wasn't willing to give anymore. 
I'm going to address all issues today with a different approch and see what happens.
Wish me luck.
Thanks to all who responded, I'm so glad I found this forum.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Lovemybabies,

Not sure how you'd approach this, but is your husband a reader? does he read self-improvement books?

If there was any round about way you could purchase these and leave these around for him to read (like a HINT HINT) - get the No more Mr Nice Guy, Hold on to your NUTS, and maybe even Married Men Sex Life Primer (you can read them first, if you want), but this may help the both of you.

I'm impressed that with things the way they've been for so long for you and you hub, that you haven't stepped out on him in some form of affair, be it physical or emotional. 

I'm sure there is a person in there (your hub) who needs some guidance to where he really wants to be. This shouldn't be you, but, if he could get some nudging with the info in these books, I can attest that the contents are well worth it. Definitely helped my marriage and most on this forum.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Two other books that could be useful for you both: His Needs, Her Needs, Lovebusters


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## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

Dadof3: I've tried the book thing already, i get very nervous even reading a book infront of him because he makes his comments and pouts and acts like a child. He brushes the books off like we don't need them. Even with councelling when he didn't hear what he wanted to hear he would cry and say that we didn't need to go and that all we need is date nite or something to get things back. it's all words tho, no actions.

As for stepping out, looking at all this I'm impressed myself to be honest. My father was a priest (our religion you can marry) and have always been that good girl sort of speak. I put everything on myself, I don't speak up because I don't want to hurt his feelings, almost afraid if you will, which in turn is adding to my suffering. I won't lie and say it hasn't crossed my mind many times but it wouldn't solve anything for me. I wanted so badly for my husband to want me and it's affected my self esteem in a HUGE way. 

My husband is very self absorbed everything is about him, even after my 2 c-sections he would talk about how much it affected him, id get a tour of the house if he was home and did something cuz he'd have to show me, i'm not hard on him at allm when off for 2.5 years I never once said anything negative just said we'll get through it while it ate me up inside that he wasn't motivated cuz i was there to pick up the pieces. when I think back to all these things I get so angry again and resentful.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

LMB, sounds like you are wanting to make some changes for yourself and that is what we all must do. I am looking at this from your H's side because I was kind of like that (though I'm still very much in the process of recovering), however I lost my W and I so would have liked to have understood that perspective I am trying to show you a couple years ago when things were getting bad in my M. I just wanted to have my needs met and wanted to be able to provide for my W's, but there was just soooo much resentment... when she gave anything it was not freely, and so she stopped giving because the resentment just accumulated and me too when I gave I felt like I was making a sacrifice, and so I blamed her for a lot of my unfulfilled needs... I want to be at the point where when I give it is entirely freely and if I don't want to give then to be able to say so and be honest about it. Like Dadof3 suggests, some self help books may be able to give him some direction, for me I never was open to self-help books, but I was open to counseling... I think what I have really wanted in life is some sort of real life mentor or role model, but so far haven't really found it (and don't suggest Jesus, I mean a real live falliable guy who has been in my shoes and has found some fulfillment in life).


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## JRiZZY (Aug 11, 2011)

I think you should leave him. You have spent 10 years being miserable. That is 10 years you will never get back. You are still young and you could have a very happy and fulfilling life. I know it is hard to think about breaking up the family for the sake of the children, but in most cases the children can sense their parents are not truly happy together. It is not right to stay together "for the children". It would be a major adjustment for everyone, but they will make it. There are many many children in the world that are products of broken homes...it isn't as though you children will have no one to relate to. Their little friends likely have experienced the same thing. As long as both parents continue to love and support their children, with a little bit of counseling your children can go on to live very happy lives. Don't sacrifice yourself. It is not fair to you OR your children. I am sorry for what you are going through. But you must always remember to put your own happiness first. If you are not happy, how on earth can you make those children happy? BEST OF LUCK TO YOU!


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## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

JRizzy, there is a lot of truth to what you posted and I know, a lot of people have told me the kids will be fine and I know they will because I will make sure that they are better than fine. I have a lot of support and it doesn't help that my brother and mother aren't too fond of him because what they have seen over the years. I guess all i can say is only time will tell. But how much time am I willing to give, I've given over 10 years already. 
I have a "Plan" in my head for the next six months (more like a deadline),but even feel guilty about that, feel like I'm plotting. Is there something wrong with that?


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## scione (Jul 11, 2011)

I don't know about kids will be fine stuff. I am from a broken home. My parents were divorced since I was very little. I am not fine. My wife can definitely second that. I have a good job and a good education. On the surface, I am a very well raised person. But mentally, I am always thinking what if my parents are still together. Everyone is different. I cannot speak for everybody.

I want you to try everything you can before making the biggest decision of your life. I want to suggest a book, "Love Must Be Tough." This book is for you only and not for your spouse. 

There's nothing wrong with planning. It's better than doing the same thing over and over, then expecting a different result.


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## timbre (Oct 3, 2011)

Lovemybabies,

To a degree I am the same as the person who is your husband. Aside from a few minor details you described who I am...

From my point of view it's not an easy thing to overcome. There are many things in the past that have helped to create the person that I am today.

Just like the previous poster get a couple of books. The Married Man Sex Life Primer is awesome. I know the author posts on here as well. This book as been an eye opener for me. I think you should both read this book. It is very insightfull.

If I had to take a guess I would say your husband has led a very sheltered life.. that was part of my problem where I was afraid to express myself sexualy in any way.

The second book is The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love that Lasts. This will help both of you understand how the other person responds to your interaction. You mentioned that you husband is always looking for praise.... Good chance his love language is Words of Affirmation.

People all respond different to things. Don't force the books on him but if he is really willing to try and make things better he will be more than willing to try reading them.

It's worked for me... I know the path to recover a healthy relationship is going to be a long and bumpy one but for me it's worth every minute...


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## Romance and More (Oct 4, 2011)

And dont expect a lifetime of habits and character to change overnight. It iwll take time, and work. It all boils down to what it is worth to you, and how much you are willing to spend to have it. (spending in time and effort not cash)_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

lovemybabies,
My H is struggling with some of the same issues. 
I'm betting on working with similar advice given by R&M, and going the softer route and being patient. 

Yes, i also sometimes feel like "why should do I do all the work".
But then I look at this way,
I decided to forget the past. Because I don't want to carry around resentment about anything.
So, really, I'm starting off fresh. all the failed attempts don't count, because that's in the past. What matters is what I do today.

And the most important thing is that I keep learning. how not to take other people's issue internally. Get out and enjoy things I like to do. Read books. Understand better.

If your husband was not always like this, then he is able to find himself again.


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## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

thanks everyone,
my husband now is in the mind set of "Forget the past and start fresh" however....if past issues have not been resolved and he has no answer and no desire to find that answer (ie, not wanting me intimately for 10 years) then how can I be assured that he won't fall back into the same rut, how much more time will be spent forcing him to be with me when he hasn't figured out the problem. Just a concern of mine.
I will look into all those books for sure to shed some light, I've read "Too Good to leave to bad to stay" and although certain points did make me question both options it did nothing to help with a decision, I'll look at others though


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## Faith-Hope-Love (Mar 4, 2011)

LMB,
R&M, Lon and a few others have given great advice. So I'll throw out something different for your consideration.

You had mentioned that you tried marriage counseling before, that it didn't work, and H wasn't hearing what he wanted. Most therapists are not trained for marriage counseling. Don't give up just because one counselor didn't work out. Look for one that has "MFT" (marriage and family therapist) after his/her name. Then ask how much of their practice is in marriage counseling. If it is less than 60%, find another.



lovemybabies said:


> my husband now is in the mind set of "Forget the past and start fresh"


If this is true, then find an MFT who uses Solution Focused Therapy. It begins with the question, "Suppose that one night there is a miracle and while you are sleeping the problem that brought you into therapy is solved: How would you know? What would be different?" You and your husband's descriptions are how you want your lives to be different, and begins the process of moving toward possibilities. It shifts the focus from what's wrong to what's right and what can be right. It gets you away from talking endlessly about your problems and breaks down resistance to change by giving you something positive to work toward. This may be the kind of therapy your H will respond to.



lovemybabies said:


> ...how can I be assured that he won't fall back into the same rut...


Everyone backslides from time to time. It is not necessarily an indication that a person doesn't care about achieving changes. It is an indication that old habitual behaviors are hard to break.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Answers do seem important (as in, please explain why you were not intimate for the past 10 years)... and sometimes the answer is just simply they didn't know any other way. They did not have the skills or coping methods to behave any other way.
Doesn't mean people are not capable of moving forward, or growing. If they want to. And have the skills.


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## LadyGemma (Oct 4, 2011)

Hi lovemybabies,

i just wanted to actually know why you cannot leave? Is it your children mainly or is it another attachment or guilt??? 

In regards to advice - You must put yourself first, if you are miserable, stop wasting your time, leave him and tell him to grow some balls and be a man, i am so sick of men these days who are lazy and don't want to put anything towards the relationship until it's too late, useless the lot of them haha!

I think you need to stop wasting your time and just leave. You are not getting any younger, life is too short, go meet someone who you will share great intimacy with and who will want to make it work for day 1.


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