# Communication problem



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My wife loves to talk, as do I.

But when I try to respond in a conversation my wife will shut me down by saying: "I don't want to be lectured by you."

I just asked her what a 'conversation' meant to her. 

"Valid interaction" she said.

"So, when I respond to something you tell me, what do you want from me?" I asked.

It turns out that she wants "acknowledgement."

Which to me mean she doesn't care what I have to say so shuts me down.

She has recently undergone "diversity" training and now uses "buzzwords" to make me seem like the problem. If she is rude and I respond she makes out that it was my fault.

I am at a loss to know what to do.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

That drives me nuts also. Basically they want to talk but don't want to be interrupted or any input. Just nod and listen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Some people can not handle any form of criticism, or questioning of them...they get offended...... then some of us can not stand LIES or any form or holding back/ stuffing....we can't have it both ways....

When someone shuts you down.... it's like they are saying..."Look at me, you need to thread lightly - time to walk on "Egg shells" or I'm going to damm you" .... Frankly.... annoying [email protected]#$%^&* 
After a while....you learn you can't really communicate deeply with these people...it's futile. 

Me personally... I LOVE to hear how others feel...their feedback/ probably why I am addicted to forums.... even if it may annoy me.... you learn to not take all of this personal.. as opinions are like A-holes...but it helps you see another's view... it aids in understanding. 

What I don't like is an "obsessive talker"...I want to run from them....if they don't have the courtesy for some "give & take" , no care you are bored out of your mind with their rattling...

But opinions, love them/ bring them on! I never shut that down, I may do a little haggling with them if I see a different view....but that is all the FUN!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

richie33 said:


> That drives me nuts also. Basically they want to talk but don't want to be interrupted or any input. Just nod and listen.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tried that. Then she berates me for not really listening to her...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Some people can not handle any form of criticism, or questioning of them...they get offended...... then some of us can not stand LIES or any form or holding back/ stuffing....we can't have it both ways....
> 
> When someone shuts you down.... it's like they are saying..."Look at me, you need to thread lightly - time to walk on "Egg shells" or I'm going to damm you" .... Frankly.... annoying [email protected]#$%^&*
> After a while....you learn you can't really communicate deeply with these people...it's futile.
> ...


My wife keeps on at me to get more training to do more courses. She is always learning, adding to her degrees and Doctorates. But I have a degree and there are no courses that I feel the need to do. I wonder if she is dissing me because I am not as keen as her to learn all the time?:scratchhead:

It's actually starting to make me a bit irritable with her. But she then blames my irritability for how she treats me. Blameshiftig, I suppose...


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Tried that. Then she berates me for not really listening to her...


Damned if you do...damned if you don't. Reminds me of the time when my mother in law was babbling on and on about something and I finally told her " listen I got my own problems" That stopped her in her tracks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> It turns out that she wants "acknowledgement."
> 
> Which to me mean she doesn't care what I have to say so shuts me down.


Try asking her what she means by "acknowledgment" and have her give you a specific example how you could respond to her that she feels you heard /listened to her instead of assuming the worse i.e she doesn't care what you have to say.

This could be one of those dynamics which is fairly common and really an innocent misunderstanding/difference in two people where one wants to just vent/be heard..the other one listen and sympathise /validate their feelings and not try and give advice on how to "fix it".Or argue a different point/ perspective like a debate.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Try asking her what she means by "acknowledgment" and have her give you a specific example how you could respond to her that she feels you heard /listened to her instead of assuming the worse i.e she doesn't care what you have to say.
> 
> This could be one of those dynamics which is fairly common and really an innocent misunderstanding/difference in two people where one wants to just vent/be heard..the other one listen and sympathise /validate their feelings and not try and give advice on how to "fix it".Or argue a different point/ perspective like a debate.


I have a horrible suspicion that, after 24 years, she is just bored with me.

She has a lot of intellectual stimulation with her colleagues at work (all with doctorates, etc) and maybe I can't stimulate her in that way?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I have a horrible suspicion that, after 24 years, she is just bored with me.
> 
> She has a lot of intellectual stimulation with her colleagues at work (all with doctorates, etc) and maybe I can't stimulate her in that way?


I would "communicate" with her you feel that way.In a non /aggressive /defensive way.See what she says.Maybe without realizing it you come off as defensive because you have that insecurity? Like trying to compete?(Im only speculating she also could be acing intolerant of you and "snobby" so to speak).


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Also again to make it clear.Have her give examples of a conversation where how you respond she hears as "acknowledgment" ...you wont improve on this communication issue for sure "guessing" what she means by that let alone guessing its the worse case meaning on her end .If you are starting off with the belief in a conversation she doesnt even care what you have to say to begin with that wont ever turn out well.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> I would "communicate" with her you feel that way.In a non /aggressive /defensive way.See what she says.Maybe without realizing it you come off as defensive because you have that insecurity? Like trying to compete?(Im only speculating she also could be acing intolerant of you and "snobby" so to speak).


I think you could be right.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I think you could be right.


I like someone thinking I could be right.Your an excellent listener .


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> I like someone thinking I could be right.Your an excellent listener .


Thank you.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

coffee4me said:


> Maybe you should just tell her she talks too much and kiss her.
> 
> She sounds like she takes herself too seriously. (I've been known to do that) Best way to get me to see it...humor. Make her laugh. A man who makes you laugh (even at yourself) is very appealing.


I wouldn't advise this.Basically that's nothing but critisism and its also framed in a she wrong way.She talks "too much"(defect).She takes her self TOO seriously (defect).

Everyone is different and those differences (of course depending) don't make you right or better and them wrong or defective.

If you want to relay that sentiment to someone in this case you wouldn't say you are "too this " or too much of that.You are saying in a sense that they are that way and you are not so you are superior.

You could say I think you and I are a little different in this area.Which is O.K but I think that could be part of where the conflict arises.I start to feel overloaded with the conversations which frustrates me sometimes .

Also the OP never really indicated her need to talk was even excessive or that she was too serious.To me it sounded more like she was frustrated at the way he responds.And he is frustrated because he wants to talk but he feels she is not interested in his input and tries to stifle him.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

coffee4me said:


> I agree, some people would take it that way. Especially those that cannot laugh at themselves or thier relationship is void of this type of light hearted banter.


Well I'm a complete kidder.My forte is sarcastic humor. And I have no problem making fun of myself..I do stupid stuff that amazes myself.But I don't see it as light hearted banter to relay to your spouse that their personality or character is defective.

IOW its not "funny" or light hearted to me to say "you talk too much" and "you take your self too seriously".Those are direct critisims as well as its the OPINION of another stated as some sort of fact.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Especially those that cannot laugh at themselves or thier relationship is void of this type of light hearted banter.


Also this is more critsism on top of critisism.IOW you talk too much (negative trait) you take your self too seriously (negative trait) if you take that as a critisism then "you can not (are incapable) of laughing at your self or being light hearted (negative trait).

IOW that is your known OPINION of me now and its not good.But its also stated as some sort of "fact".Someone else may not hold that same opinion ..or think they (that person)is incapable of being serious and have the vocabulary /and social skills for conversation of a 3 year old.

Really all you are doing is offering your negative opinion of each other but each states this as a "fact" or a right wrong thing not even just different .Each relaying they believe to be the superior one.Because the opinion offered of course is based on in comparison to YOURSELF>


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> My wife keeps on at me to get more training to do more courses. She is always learning, adding to her degrees and Doctorates. But I have a degree and there are no courses that I feel the need to do. I wonder if she is dissing me because I am not as keen as her to learn all the time?:scratchhead:
> 
> It's actually starting to make me a bit irritable with her. But she then blames my irritability for how she treats me. Blameshiftig, I suppose...


Ask her.Is the problem I'm pretty content with my education at this point unlike you who has the interest to continue on ?

Because here again what we were discussing that's simply a "difference" she is not "better" than you because of that difference.

She needs to accept you where you are at right now.And you can accept her and encourage her for going in the direction she is.It sounds like a "competition" if you ask me and you don't want to go there.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> You are a person that would obviously take it as critisim. I agreed there are people who would take it that way.


To clarify in the context of the OP I would.They are after all having a real conflict over this.On top of he never said the problem was she talks to much or takes herself too seriously and cant laugh at herself.In their situation since it is serious.Serious enough that they are both frustrated with each other the answer IMHO isn't to tell her not to talk so much and lighten up.That could very well INFLAME the situation..Especially because he admits he is irritated at her and she knows it.Thats not "light hearted" banter in that context.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

coffee4me said:


> I sorry if you took my opinions and comments as negative toward you, the OP or his wife. I obiously interpreted the situation differently and do not feel my comments were negative. * They were not meant to offend you. * I'll bow out of this thread now as to not get off topic.


I do not feel "offended' I realize you were talking hypothetical not specifically me.I just disagree in HIS situation(I guess I will say if I was in her shoes) what you suggested would help let alone come close to resolving their communication issues.Thats all..I just disagree.Peace.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> IOW that is your known OPINION of me now and its not good.


Im sorry for the confusion .Sometimes I write as "if' Im speaking in the situation ..I did mean I thought YOU specifically thought that about me specifically.If "someone" (my spouse in this case) said that to me here is my reply to them is how I meant that to come out.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

Having read through the thread could I ask the OP to give an example of the conversations he is talking about?

Was your wife saying:

A)I don't want to be *lectured *by you or
B)I don't want to be lectured by *you*


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> My wife loves to talk, as do I.
> 
> But when I try to respond in a conversation my wife will shut me down by saying: "I don't want to be lectured by you."
> 
> ...


Do you think this might be a case of hearing the words but not hearing the message, or perhaps the opposit?

Words but not message...
Words, but not message implies HER perception behind HER words and your missing her message which makes her angry.
I don't want to be lectured by you...= 
I feel judged. Or 
I feel invalidated. Or 
I need your approval...


Message but not words...
You hearing what you perceive to be the"hidden message" within HER words.
I don't want to be lectured by you...=
You don't know what you're talking about
You can't keep up with me.
You are inadaquate.

Same word grouping but the speaker's possible message is lost and the target's take home message has nothing to do with the speakers message.

This is a tricky communication problem because it builds and builds as neither listener now speaker are getting to the root.

If, next time she say, I don't want to be lectured by you you respond with a question. "I don't intend to lecture you is that really how you feel when I try to contribute?" You may find that her response to this prompts her hidden message. If it doesn't prompt her hidden message, then you may want to consider that you are hearing your own hidden message which is what is blocking the communication.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I think you could be right.


Acknowledgment and validation message, at face value.




dallasapple said:


> I like someone thinking I could be right.Your an excellent listener .


Acknowledgment and validation message with hidden message depending on listener.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I agree Anon..I noticed right of the bat he "heard" something in her saying she needed "acknowledgment" that was pretty damning to him that she never said.Of course we get only his side..with no "tone" or body language either.

Sometimes you have to DEFINE what you mean and specifically.I have complained to my husband I just need him to validate not INVALIDATE my 'feelings".He has a habit of if I say "this happened and Im so agravated" (not just at him but other things /relationships) and he would say "you shouldn't feel that way I wouldnt" and why dont you do this " (his fix it plan).I had to explain "specifically" not to say "you shouldnt" feel any way that I might feel simply because you dont..or wouldn't thats "dismissing' my feelings as "wrong" ..

Also the "acknowledgment"..It can litterally be the listener not starting to formulate a response(especially in opposition ) and even interject it by interupting before you even finish your thought.

Heck even here.Sometimes you can tell a respondent to an OP obviously did not read the entire post and formulated a response/opinion without "listening' in full..It's easier to see in that case because its in writing.Like suggesting something that the OP clearly explained they had "tried"..or asking questions that the answer is in the OP.You want to say (and sometimes you do LOL) "did you even read the OP?"...

When that is happening face to face..with your spouse especially on a regular basis it can cause MAJOR frustration .


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Acknowledgment and validation message, at face value.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


YEP ..I felt "listened to" and taken seriously at his post.Its a feeling of "respect' that you aren't just making noise in the air (or in writing)...

And the "hidden message" ? A little "sarcasm" considering his issue is his wife feels unacknowledged but my experience however brief conversing with him was the opposite.Oh and also a "joke " LOL!!that I thought he was a good listener because he thought I could be right.(lots of hidden meaning in a grin !)


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

"I don't feel acknowledged"="You don't take the time to think about what I've said before you talk."

She wants you to ask her questions about what she said, be interested in it, repeat back to her what she was getting at in your own words. To show that you were listening and involved. If you do this first, she's very likely to be interested in your thoughts too.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Anabel said:


> "I don't feel acknowledged"="You don't take the time to think about what I've said before you talk."
> 
> She wants you to ask her questions about what she said, be interested in it, repeat back to her what she was getting at in your own words. To show that you were listening and involved. If you do this first, she's very likely to be interested in your thoughts too.


I agree she said "valid" communication.IOW what you are saying has anything to do with what she is saying. I think..


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anabel said:


> "I don't feel acknowledged"="You don't take the time to think about what I've said before you talk."
> 
> She wants you to ask her questions about what she said, be interested in it, repeat back to her what she was getting at in your own words. To show that you were listening and involved. If you do this first, she's very likely to be interested in your thoughts too.


Very good point ! give a little *feedback* along the way.... this is "acknowledging" / shows your interest, and enthusiasm.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

coffee4me said:


> Maybe you should just tell her she talks too much and kiss her.
> 
> She sounds like she takes herself too seriously. (I've been known to do that) Best way to get me to see it...humor. Make her laugh. A man who makes you laugh (even at yourself) is very appealing.


She's a High Functioning Asperger's. 

I have a horrible feeling that idea would not have a happy conclusion. Good idea that it is.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Ask her.Is the problem I'm pretty content with my education at this point unlike you who has the interest to continue on ?
> 
> Because here again what we were discussing that's simply a "difference" she is not "better" than you because of that difference.
> 
> She needs to accept you where you are at right now.And you can accept her and encourage her for going in the direction she is.It sounds like a "competition" if you ask me and you don't want to go there.


I have told her this. She just looked at me and said: "No ambition?"


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I have told her this. She just looked at me and said: "No ambition?"


You can "respectfully disagree".Of course I have ambition.Just different than yours .Both are legitimate and worthy of respect.(state as fact)

If she is aspergers" then you have to be even more "logical" .Sarcasm and "joking" is going to go past her..

Get into "judgment" or is that a concept too "wide" for aspergers?I know a little not a lot and there are of course ranges of severity..


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

I do think OP's wife needs to be a little realistic. Actually I think all people need to be realistic in conversations. We talk alot about validation but ultimately we will only feel validated if our spouse starts or stops doing whatever we ask of them. Seriously, validation can look an awful lot like "if you loved me you would [insert request here]" I have had my husband repeat back to me verbatim things that I have said and it is abundantly clear that what I am saying goes right over his head. Too many attempts at clarification just muddies the waters even more or worse sound contradictory.

When we make requests of our partners it behooves us to stop and think what we are asking them to give up. Sometimes we think that they just need to suck it up or get over their pride or whaever we think is holding them back from seeing it our way and "validating our feelings. But many times what we are asking can come at the cost of self-esteem or even personal moral/ethical codes. Sometimes though what we are asking costs our spouse absolutely nothing and when that happens they are more than happy to give to us for as long and as freely as necessary.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Fledgling said:


> I do think OP's wife needs to be a little realistic. Actually I think all people need to be realistic in conversations. We talk alot about validation but ultimately we will only feel validated if our spouse starts or stops doing whatever we ask of them. Seriously, validation can look an awful lot like "if you loved me you would [insert request here]" I have had my husband repeat back to me verbatim things that I have said and it is abundantly clear that what I am saying goes right over his head. Too many attempts at clarification just muddies the waters even more or worse sound contradictory.
> 
> When we make requests of our partners it behooves us to stop and think what we are asking them to give up. Sometimes we think that they just need to suck it up or get over their pride or whaever we think is holding them back from seeing it our way and "validating our feelings. But many times what we are asking can come at the cost of self-esteem or even personal moral/ethical codes. Sometimes though what we are asking costs our spouse absolutely nothing and when that happens they are more than happy to give to us for as long and as freely as necessary.


But if she has "aspergers" she is in a different category.

That's a mild form of autism.Where there is an inability to get "humor" or "sarcasm"..Most everything is literal...

Its not there fault.

So OP you mainly have to get advice IMHO on how to live with someone with aspergers..They are sort of "flat" people (the way I describe it"..very "black and white"..and "logical" no room for things like emotions..Aren't they more like here is a square so it goes in a square hole?(circle circle) ..

I had the pleasure of knowing a 16 year old .With aspergers..I got used to the fact he didn't have the same "range" of emotions as someone not like him..I just stuck to the point.And you have to explain (with a young person) how others have more"emotion" than that..Its not "right or wrong"..It just is..They have to adapt and its difficult for them..


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> But if she has "aspergers" she is in a different category.
> 
> That's a mild form of autism.Where there is an inability to get "humor" or "sarcasm"..Most everything is literal...
> 
> ...


Sometimes it breaks my heart when something happens and she looks at me with a puzzled expression and says: "Matt? I don't understand that."


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

dallasapple said:


> But if she has "aspergers" she is in a different category.
> 
> That's a mild form of autism.Where there is an inability to get "humor" or "sarcasm"..Most everything is literal...
> 
> ...


If she has aspergers I am pretty sure she is well aware of her limitations, though. At some point OP and his wife will have to reach a balance point based on both their limitations (I mean imagine what someone with aspergers will think like when she goes through the hormones of menopause). He says that it breaks his heart when she says she doesn't understand but he also knows that alot of times she can't help it and he has to give her the freedom to be who she is and not take it as personally.


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## outNabout (Mar 2, 2013)

mattmatt I really like how you wrote the post like a little dialogue. It's amazing how familiar the exchange sounds. I'll need to try doing that for one my my upcoming billion posts on TAM. Sometimes I really wonder what's going on with my wife's socially inept rudeness (ie. high function Asp. or whatever it is). 

"If she is rude and I respond she makes out that it was my fault." 
OMG CLASSIC! I get even more rudeness when I call her out on initial rudeness. I so know what you mean. Where you'd think a person would want to respond with some kind of grace like, "oh sorry about that" or effort to correct any misinterpretation, fix the situation etc. 

I can imagine it seems kind of one sided sometimes. Like if she were to treat you the same way how would she react? Would she think it was fair? It seems a little unfair sometimes doesn't it? You seem like a thoughtful guy, but she takes your thoughtful chatty friendly communication as an opportunity to snap at you that she "doesn't want to be lectured". Ouch.
She's not playing nice. 

Not too long ago I was about 20 seconds into sharing a special memory to my spouse from when I was a child.... "I heard this already". she snapped at me. And I'm thinking... wow this little moment speaks volumes about the nature of my relationship. 

The moment to moment interactions with a grumpy cranky wife are so challenging.... I so often feel/think they are representative of the relationship as a whole ..... 

So I guess that makes me ask.. is there any reason you can think of why she's cranky like that? PMS? Bad day? You two were not getting along earlier? Or would so say this is pretty much the mode of communication day to day, morning noon and night?

Reading some of your earlier posts... it sounds like it's been a really long difficult history between you two.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Fledgling said:


> Having read through the thread could I ask the OP to give an example of the conversations he is talking about?
> 
> Was your wife saying:
> 
> ...


emphasis on the you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Fledgling said:


> If she has aspergers I am pretty sure she is well aware of her limitations, though. At some point OP and his wife will have to reach a balance point based on both their limitations (I mean imagine what someone with aspergers will think like when she goes through the hormones of menopause). He says that it breaks his heart when she says she doesn't understand but he also knows that alot of times she can't help it and he has to give her the freedom to be who she is and not take it as personally.


She is going through the menopause, now, God help us.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

outNabout said:


> mattmatt I really like how you wrote the post like a little dialogue. It's amazing how familiar the exchange sounds. I'll need to try doing that for one my my upcoming billion posts on TAM. Sometimes I really wonder what's going on with my wife's socially inept rudeness (ie. high function Asp. or whatever it is).
> 
> "If she is rude and I respond she makes out that it was my fault."
> OMG CLASSIC! I get even more rudeness when I call her out on initial rudeness. I so know what you mean. Where you'd think a person would want to respond with some kind of grace like, "oh sorry about that" or effort to correct any misinterpretation, fix the situation etc.
> ...


It's PMS, but as her periods are all over the place (none, then several within a week) it has gotten a lot worse, lately. 

Your point about the anecdote above resonates with me.


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

Hope you've got good seatbelts ... you know this is going to be a rough ride ...

... but at least you've got experience ...


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