# how do you know when to kiss?



## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

how do you overcome nerves when you want to kiss your new roommate but are afraid to be rejected? 
is it best to ask her if she wants to be kissed or just do it?


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Vodka...or rum 


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Vodka...or rum
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i've never drunk before, but i will try it.
she has some bottles, but she knows i don't drink so she didn't offer it to me.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Vodka...or rum
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Read this guys other post, I think the woman is the one that will be needing a drink. 

The OP agreed to move in with an older woman who was looking for someone to share expenses, but the OP is secretly in "love" with her and moved in just so he can be close to her and start a "relationship."


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why do you want to kiss your roommate?


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Why do you want to kiss your roommate?


i want to be her boyfriend, not just roommate :|
i'm her tennis partner anyway, so it wouldn't be a big stretch if we are a couple.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"The OP agreed to move in with an older woman who was looking for someone to share expenses, but the OP is secretly in "love" with her and moved in just so he can be close to her and start a "relationship." 

Good, God! We need better emoticons because these cute little smiley faces ain't cutting it.

Australia must have a million and one brothels. Pay the price and lose your virginity. Trying to plop a kiss on your unsuspecting landlady could get your immature butt evicted.


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## Mussi (Dec 7, 2015)

I'm assuming you're either pretty young or don't have much experience with women, so please see my quite detailed answer in that light in case I am stating teh obvious a bit too much. 

Best is to read the room so to speak, mening read the sings she is giving you. If you're good at gauging other peoples intentions and feelings then go with your instincts, but don't assume your instincts are right. So my advice is to first make it clear to her that you are interested in her, and also make it clear what you are interested in. Do you just want a kiss, do you want sex, do you think she's potential girlfriend material, do you want a roommates with benefits type thing? Being open and honest about this can avoid a lot of potential hurt and misunderstanding for one or both of you. Give her an idea of your level of interest in her and see how she reacts. If she makes it clear she's not interested then don't push it, respect her boundaries. Mind you women and girls might try not to hurt your feelings when rejecting you and thereby not make it as clear as men sometimes need it to be that they are not interested. Finally if and when you actually do go for it, just try to put an arm around her first, see how she responds to that. Does her body turn stiff or does she move away from you, then she's probably not ready for you to move in for a kiss and she may never be. Does she lean into you, then you can try to move a bit closer, see if she's still comfortable. You could nuzzle her neck, stroke her arm etc before you try anything further. Then finally you can move towards her, but not move all the way in for the kiss, let her move in the last bit, so that she is left with the decision whether to kiss you or not. As a woman I have never let the man make the decision about whether anything physical would happen, they have always made their interest clear to me in various ways either by verbally expressing their interest, through their actions, or by putting an arm on the small of my back or something along those lines, if I wasn't into them I'd let them down gently, if I was, I would go along with it and let it happen, or express that I might also be interested in them and ultimately I would decide when I was ready to kiss hem or do anything more than that.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

marriage_student said:


> how do you overcome nerves when you want to kiss your new roommate but are afraid to be rejected?
> is it best to ask her if she wants to be kissed or just do it?


Um, unless you are DATING, you DONT! 

Seriously??? :slap:


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

Mussi said:


> I'm assuming you're either pretty young or don't have much experience with women, so please see my quite detailed answer in that light in case I am stating teh obvious a bit too much.
> 
> Best is to read the room so to speak, mening read the sings she is giving you. If you're good at gauging other peoples intentions and feelings then go with your instincts, but don't assume your instincts are right. So my advice is to first make it clear to her that you are interested in her, and also make it clear what you are interested in. Do you just want a kiss, do you want sex, do you think she's potential girlfriend material, do you want a roommates with benefits type thing? Being open and honest about this can avoid a lot of potential hurt and misunderstanding for one or both of you. Give her an idea of your level of interest in her and see how she reacts. If she makes it clear she's not interested then don't push it, respect her boundaries. Mind you women and girls might try not to hurt your feelings when rejecting you and thereby not make it as clear as men sometimes need it to be that they are not interested. Finally if and when you actually do go for it, just try to put an arm around her first, see how she responds to that. Does her body turn stiff or does she move away from you, then she's probably not ready for you to move in for a kiss and she may never be. Does she lean into you, then you can try to move a bit closer, see if she's still comfortable. You could nuzzle her neck, stroke her arm etc before you try anything further. Then finally you can move towards her, but not move all the way in for the kiss, let her move in the last bit, so that she is left with the decision whether to kiss you or not. As a woman I have never let the man make the decision about whether anything physical would happen, they have always made their interest clear to me in various ways either by verbally expressing their interest, through their actions, or by putting an arm on the small of my back or something along those lines, if I wasn't into them I'd let them down gently, if I was, I would go along with it and let it happen, or express that I might also be interested in them and ultimately I would decide when I was ready to kiss hem or do anything more than that.


thanks, its useful 
i'm 13 years younger than her.
i have a love connection with her, and a sexual connection, so i'd like everything and sleep with her every night. 

i want to tell her everything that i think of her but only if she doesn't say something like "i don't think of you that way".
how much should i tell her? can i say how attractive she is?
i tried to put my arm around her in the cinema but i just put it on the back of her chair, but i agree its a good idea, i'll try it on the couch.

the only think she knows about my interest level is that she took her jumper off when she was standing right in front of me and i reacted with a big surprised expression because the tank top under it showed a lot of her boobs and she said sorry (even though she did nothing wrong).

i'm a little worried that if i kiss her i'll not be able to control my breathing.
when i imagine at night i do not control it.


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> Um, unless you are DATING, you DONT!
> 
> Seriously??? :slap:


we have been to the cinema together a couple of days ago and she might have expected me to kiss her then but it was not called a "date", just "seeing a movie". during the movie i moved closer and my shoulder was against her and she did not move away.


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> "The OP agreed to move in with an older woman who was looking for someone to share expenses, but the OP is secretly in "love" with her and moved in just so he can be close to her and start a "relationship."
> 
> Good, God! We need better emoticons because these cute little smiley faces ain't cutting it.
> 
> Australia must have a million and one brothels. Pay the price and lose your virginity. Trying to plop a kiss on your unsuspecting landlady could get your immature butt evicted.


she knows me well from playing tennis together, so its not like she is just "the landlady". 
i like her more than anyone on tv/movies, so i doubt a brothel will be anywhere near good enough for me.
she is the *one*.


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

You are 18 and very inexperienced and possibly on the Autism spectrum (impression I get from your threads)? 

I have a feeling that a 31 years old women is not interested in an 18 year old recent high school graduate. Not meaning to insult you at all but I have a feeling that she is at a very different stage of life and probably sees you as a kid brother. You should focus on meeting girls closer to your age and similar life experience and enjoy dating and having the fun a teenager should be having. 

I understand you want to learn about marriage but why at your age? I feel uncomfortable discussing the issues you raise with a kid! You are the same age as my 3rd child. He is focused on college applications, school, friends, girls his age... You might do better on some other site suited to young singles?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

marriage_student said:


> she knows me well from playing tennis together, so its not like she is just "the landlady".
> i like her more than anyone on tv/movies, so i doubt a brothel will be anywhere near good enough for me.
> she is the *one*.


You have some serious issues, you really should get into therapy! You are acting like a stalker!


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

3Xnocharm said:


> You have some serious issues, you really should get into therapy! You are acting like a stalker!



Awww...I think that's a little harsh. More like a late bloomer with a crush on someone he admires, and is a large part of his life. 


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

OP...are you a virgin?


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

@3Xnocharm
This could be a Mrs. Robinson moment. Don't spoil it. Ha!



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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

marriage_student said:


> i've never drunk before, but i will try it.
> she has some bottles, but she knows i don't drink so she didn't offer it to me.



Tell her you are curious about what a rum and coke tastes like 


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## spunkycat08 (Nov 14, 2013)

*OP:*

In this thread you stated that you want to keep things under control, be her friend, and see if she wants something more... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...4505-do-you-tell-person-if-you-love-them.html

However, now you want to be her boyfriend.

You cannot have both. It is either be her friend or be her boyfriend.

Being someone's friend is different than being their boyfriend or girlfriend.

So which one is it?

You need to be emotionally honest with her.

Using friendship as a backdoor to being someone's boyfriend is not fair to the other person.


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## Mussi (Dec 7, 2015)

I think some of the people here are being a little harsh on you, certainly given your age, but I agree that chances that a 31 year old will be interested sexually or romantically in an 18 year old are slim. I am 32 and the idea of getting involved with an 18 year old, though technically legal, to me seems peadophilic and also just not interesting because I can't imagine an 18 year old would have the life experience or sexual experience to make or keep me interested. 

I know it's not what you're hoping to hear, and there is of course a slim chance your situation is different, but chances are big she will reject you. 

That being said I think you should still express your feelings to her, as it is more fair to her, and could put you out of your misery, even if she does reject you. At least you will know where you are at, and that will feel like a relief once the initial pain of rejection and heartache wears off, and trust me it will wear off. I don't normally post on forums so I don't know how to quote you here, but you said something along the lines of only wanting to express your feelings to her if you can be sure she won't tell you she doesn't see you that way. Here I want to say: Life doesn't work that way, there are no guarantees, and rejection on many levels, not just romantic and sexual rejection, is a part of life, that you will eventually be confronted with and have to come to terms with. 

Telling her of course runs the risk of her not being comfortable with your living arrangements anymore, but it is the honest thing to do, and it would be the most respectful and fair thing towards her as she in my opinion ought to know if her tenant has other motives than she does with your living situation. Given your age difference I recommend just gathering your courage and telling her, not making a physical move like I recommended earlier, because the chances that you can't read her cues or that she will misinterpret your advances are vastly increased due to the significant difference in age, maturity and experience between you. It will be difficult, and it may be painful if she rejects you, but in the end you can be proud of yourself for having been honest and having tried, no matter what the outcome. 

And if she does reject you, take it from a 32 year old, you will have many other crushes and there will be many other girls or women you will be interested in, so don't despair. 

I wish you a lot of strength and courage.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Mussi- young doesn't explain the issues here. My son is a young, teen boy and does not act this way. 

I agree with Autism spectrum. He doesn't understand jokes, sarcasm, has difficulty reading people and knowing what's appropriate (like rubbing tanning lotion on a stranger at the beach and ejaculating) 

For others, unless he is trolling, I think it could be dangerous to joke about what he should do to/with women because he doesn't understand that you aren't serious - IMO.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

*hangs head*

Soooorrryyyy 


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Vodka...or rum
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And lots of it...


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

marriage_student said:


> we have been to the cinema together a couple of days ago and she might have expected me to kiss her then but it was not called a "date", just "seeing a movie". during the movie i moved closer and my shoulder was against her and she did not move away.


doesn't mean anything as its a neutral response.
it might mean, perhaps are you going further?
OR it might mean, oh god I'm not comfortable with confrontation and I don't want to make a scene


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

spunkycat08 said:


> *OP:*
> 
> In this thread you stated that you want to keep things under control, be her friend, and see if she wants something more... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...4505-do-you-tell-person-if-you-love-them.html
> 
> ...


say what?
your boyfriend isn't your friend? or that you shouldn't get to be a friend and learn about someone before seeing if you really want to take things to the next step?

too many guys end up friendzoned and being preyed on women for support and cash/treats; while they burn a candle and she's happy to let them buy their way into her attention zone for a while until better offers come along.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

marriage_student said:


> thanks, its useful
> i'm 13 years younger than her.
> i have a love connection with her, and a sexual connection, so i'd like everything and sleep with her every night.


That's a mother, not a lover.
Or a sexual fantasy not a person, if you're using the euphemism,.
note the fixation on getting you needs satisfied....




marriage_student said:


> i want to tell her everything that i think of her but only if she doesn't say something like "i don't think of you that way".
> how much should i tell her? can i say how attractive she is?
> i tried to put my arm around her in the cinema but i just put it on the back of her chair, but i agree its a good idea, i'll try it on the couch.
> 
> ...


Here's a hint: Trying saying something forward but not over the top - something like, I like you a lot, would you be interest in dating, even though we live together.

Be aware; that it would put a lot of pressure on the relationship, and not in a good way - you pretty much would skip the whole dating thing and move straight into the "moved in together". 
Also by the sounds of it you're having a location fascination - a typical crush experience - She's not so much "the one", as that you have hormones and she's "the one right now". The real problem here is that you're not equal partners in the relationship, so you'd have to grow up REALLY fast, and the questions you're asking says you don't have much experience - can you handle a woman, especially this woman as just another human being or are you going to turn your whole world over to her.... (the latter is a very bad thing, worse if she accepts)

the other considerable danger.. is that you're in a very unequal relationship (yes I know I said it before) but think of this; if she is so much more mature, why is she interested in young inexperienced convenient men?

-
Oh and whatever you do, don't go down the alcohol path like some people have _joked_. If she is drunk or plied with mind adjusting substances such as alcohol, then you could be charged with assault (yes even long afterwards), or if it actually got to sexual petting/intercourse/oral you could end up charged with sexual assault, stupefying (with premeditated intentions), or even rape - even if she initiates. The law is clear that using such tactics removes the validity of consent, especially if you supplied or suggested the alcohol. And if you were involved in the supply of the alcohol (or the idea) then even the "I was too drunk too" defense will likely not work.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

spotthedeaddog said:


> say what?
> your boyfriend isn't your friend? or that you shouldn't get to be a friend and learn about someone before seeing if you really want to take things to the next step?
> 
> too many guys end up friendzoned and being preyed on women for support and cash/treats; while they burn a candle and she's happy to let them buy their way into her attention zone for a while until better offers come along.


So they should stop giving women cash and treats to try to get them to be their girlfriend/sleep with them. 

No one is owed a thing. If they want to give gifts or burn the candle then they should do it without expecting anything back.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Good, God! We need better emoticons because these cute little smiley faces ain't cutting it.


:smthumbup:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

marriage_student said:


> thanks, its useful
> i'm 13 years younger than her.
> i have a love connection with her, and a sexual connection, so i'd like everything and sleep with her every night.
> 
> ...





SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> So they should stop giving women cash and treats to try to get them to be their girlfriend/sleep with them.
> 
> No one is owed a thing. If they want to give gifts or burn the candle then they should do it without expecting anything back.


Easy to say when you're on the receiving end and culturally the expectation is that you get to be the receiver.

Clearly the person offered the gift should refuse it if they aren't willing to enter in the proper reciprocation. What kind of person would just expect to take take take


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

john117 said:


> And lots of it...


You realize he is just 18 years old and seems to have some issue if judged by his posts that make him appear to be more like 12? I don't think it is wise or allowed by the TAM user agreement to be egging on illegal and highly ill advised behavior.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Is it possible that marriage_student is the same guy that used to post on here as SMG15?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

spotthedeaddog said:


> Easy to say when you're on the receiving end and culturally the expectation is that you get to be the receiver.
> 
> Clearly the person offered the gift should refuse it if they aren't willing to enter in the proper reciprocation. What kind of person would just expect to take take take


Proper reciprocation = sex? 
If you want to pay for sex go to a prostitute. Women aren't required to make that exchange. 
People only use you if you let them, the only person you can control is yourself. 
You can't make someone not accept a gift if they don't plan on sleeping with you. You can only stop giving women gifts to try to get them to sleep with you.

People need to own their own choices and not put it on others. If you choose to give a woman money with a covert contract that she will sleep with you, that's on you. She never agreed to those terms.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

I would write her a letter from an attorney explaining your intentions on seeking osculation from her. This note should detail all pertinent information like length of time the osculation session will last, will the tongue be involved? If so to what depth will be acceptable to her. If any manipulation of her mammary glands will occur immediately following osculation she should be made aware of your intentions.

This letter should have an accompanied affidavit where she swears to not have been under the influence of any alcohol or illegal drugs for at least five full days, she is currently not on anti-depressants or seeking treatment for depression or any mental disorders.

Have her sign in front of a notary agreeing to the terms detailed in the letter and return the letter to your attorney certified mail. Once all this is done proceed with osculation.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

OP-

Does your roommate ever accidently touch you? Does she ever complement you on your appearance? Does she ever ask you why you don't have a gf?

What about her. Does she date? Does she have friends over? Does she walk around the house in anything remotely sexy?

Have the two of you discussed boundaries?

She I was 18 there was an older woman who flirted with me so much that it was obvious to everybody but me. 

Do something simple. If she is wearing something new, say "hey, I haven't seen that outfit, is that new"? If she asks you you opinion, give it to her.
She is your opposite sex roommate/landlord. She sees you as safe.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Um, unless you are DATING, you DONT!
> 
> Seriously??? :slap:


^^This!!


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Mussi said:


> I'm assuming you're either pretty young or don't have much experience with women, so please see my quite detailed answer in that light in case I am stating teh obvious a bit too much.


Both. Read his other posts.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

marriage_student said:


> thanks, its useful
> i'm 13 years younger than her.
> i have a love connection with her, and a sexual connection, so i'd like everything and sleep with her every night.


For a love connection it needs to be reciprocated. If you moved in hoping for the opportunity to take advantage that is called a "stalker", "sexual predator" or possibly "rapist". 

You may find that you have a new roommate, single room, in the near future and then you will get to know how she feels.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

marriage_student said:


> she knows me well from playing tennis together, so its not like she is just "the landlady".
> i like her more than anyone on tv/movies, so i doubt a brothel will be anywhere near good enough for me.
> she is the *one*.


Wait, wasn't your neighbour across the fence "the one" a couple of weeks ago?


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Wait, wasn't your neighbour across the fence "the one" a couple of weeks ago?


she was married, plus that was more sexual and less about love.



WonkyNinja said:


> For a love connection it needs to be reciprocated. If you moved in hoping for the opportunity to take advantage that is called a "stalker", "sexual predator" or possibly "rapist".
> 
> You may find that you have a new roommate, single room, in the near future and then you will get to know how she feels.


stalker/predator/rapist aren't interested in kissing.



Trickster said:


> OP-
> 
> Does your roommate ever accidently touch you? Does she ever complement you on your appearance? Does she ever ask you why you don't have a gf?
> 
> ...


she does not accidentally touch me. she has not dated since i met her. she has friend pick her up and go to lunch with. she always walks around sexy in the house, her nipples show through all her tops even when she has bras on. and she has some pink tracksuit pants that make her contours 100% clear. not discussed boundaries but she is very trusting and has her bedroom door open a bit during the night. i haven't complimented her outfits but when she raised her jumper off when i was only 50cm from her and i looked straight at her tits because her tank top was lowcut/spilling and she said "sorry" so she knew i was amazed by her titties :nerd: and she might have done it on purpose. 



knobcreek said:


> I would write her a letter from an attorney explaining your intentions on seeking osculation from her. This note should detail all pertinent information like length of time the osculation session will last, will the tongue be involved? If so to what depth will be acceptable to her. If any manipulation of her mammary glands will occur immediately following osculation she should be made aware of your intentions.
> 
> This letter should have an accompanied affidavit where she swears to not have been under the influence of any alcohol or illegal drugs for at least five full days, she is currently not on anti-depressants or seeking treatment for depression or any mental disorders.
> 
> Have her sign in front of a notary agreeing to the terms detailed in the letter and return the letter to your attorney certified mail. Once all this is done proceed with osculation.


no thanks


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Simply "go for it!" And if you lack the courage to forthrightly act upon your hormones, then simply ask her for the kiss!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

spotthedeaddog said:


> That's a mother, not a lover.
> Or a sexual fantasy not a person, if you're using the euphemism,.
> note the fixation on getting you needs satisfied....
> 
> ...


a few minutes ago i said "that top suits you, is it new" and she said its not new but that her favorite tops are in the wash. i like all her tops anyway because of her shape. 
i was thinking about he at night for weeks before i moved in, so its not just because she's my roommate. i had been with her on the tennis court and overwhelmed by her combination of pretty face and sexuality but i'm just as into her personality now. 
i agree, alcohol is not my specialty :thumbup: 



spotthedeaddog said:


> doesn't mean anything as its a neutral response.
> it might mean, perhaps are you going further?
> OR it might mean, oh god I'm not comfortable with confrontation and I don't want to make a scene


i'm not sure, very hard to figure.



Mussi said:


> I think some of the people here are being a little harsh on you, certainly given your age, but I agree that chances that a 31 year old will be interested sexually or romantically in an 18 year old are slim. I am 32 and the idea of getting involved with an 18 year old, though technically legal, to me seems peadophilic and also just not interesting because I can't imagine an 18 year old would have the life experience or sexual experience to make or keep me interested.
> 
> I know it's not what you're hoping to hear, and there is of course a slim chance your situation is different, but chances are big she will reject you.
> 
> ...


there is this age gap but i don't look like a child, i'm fully developed. 
is there a way to give her the perfect chance to make a physical move before me? 
i am going to try this- start a shower without soap and call for her to bring it into the bathroom. 
not saying i expect her to get in the shower but if she walks in and sees my boner through the see-through shower door then it might be a sign she wants me.



arbitrator said:


> *Simply "go for it!" And if you lack the courage to forthrightly act upon your hormones, then simply ask her for the kiss!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i will ask for the kiss


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

Elizabeth001 said:


> OP...are you a virgin?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ladies/girls have made me come (and i don't mean girls on the computer/tv) including a girl when i was at school named elizabeth but known as lizzy  



spunkycat08 said:


> *OP:*
> 
> In this thread you stated that you want to keep things under control, be her friend, and see if she wants something more... http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...4505-do-you-tell-person-if-you-love-them.html
> 
> ...


if she doesn't want me as a boyfriend i want to be her friend 
i'll be honest but as long as if she rejects me i can stay on as her friend/roommate.



Abc123wife said:


> You are 18 and very inexperienced and possibly on the Autism spectrum (impression I get from your threads)?
> 
> I have a feeling that a 31 years old women is not interested in an 18 year old recent high school graduate. Not meaning to insult you at all but I have a feeling that she is at a very different stage of life and probably sees you as a kid brother. You should focus on meeting girls closer to your age and similar life experience and enjoy dating and having the fun a teenager should be having.
> 
> I understand you want to learn about marriage but why at your age? I feel uncomfortable discussing the issues you raise with a kid! You are the same age as my 3rd child. He is focused on college applications, school, friends, girls his age... You might do better on some other site suited to young singles?


i haven't met anyone as warm and sexual as her. 
none of the girls my age are as good physically or mentally.
i guess i can't choose who i fall in love with. 
she might see me as a kid brother or she might not


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriage_student said:


> stalker/predator/rapist aren't interested in kissing.


They absolutely can be. Many of these types have "love" as a reason behind their behavior. You aren't in love with her. You have an obsession and lust, just like with the neighbor. 

You seem to get these obsessions with a lot of older woman types. Even when a therapist was suggested to you, you had said you would if you had one who was an attractive woman in her 30s or 40s. 

You do not have the maturity or understanding to be in a relationship, you need to find a professional to help you deal with these things and to help you figure out why you're so behind and confused. 

You need to understand that touching or kissing this woman - or any woman- without her consent and when she does not have any interest in you can have consequences. 

At the very least you can lose a friend, you can be kicked out of the home, she can even call the police. 

Stop staring at her body. Her choice of clothes are not an invitation for you to stare. You are going to make her uncomfortable and creeped out. 
Her comfort in her home is not signs that she is into you. 

Do not kiss her. Do not touch her.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

We're getting a rare glimpse into the young mind of a sexual predator in the making.....


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> They absolutely can be. Many of these types have "love" as a reason behind their behavior. You aren't in love with her. You have an obsession and lust, just like with the neighbor.
> 
> You seem to get these obsessions with a lot of older woman types. Even when a therapist was suggested to you, you had said you would if you had one who was an attractive woman in her 30s or 40s.
> 
> ...


i want her to make the first move anyway, so no problem there at all!
i've been to a therapist anyway after my Mum died. i went for more than a month actually, and felt no different from it.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriage_student said:


> i want her to make the first move anyway, so no problem there at all!
> i've been to a therapist anyway after my Mum died. i went for more than a month actually, and felt no different from it.


That was for a specific thing, I'm talking more general help to figure out why you are so behind your peers and have the issues that you do.
Your behaviors and obsession are not normal and are going to end up getting you in a lot of trouble if you don't get help to manage them. Things like rubbing lotion on the woman at the beach and having an orgasm from it could have gotten you arrested but you don't seem to understand that it is even unacceptable.

Do you have a family Dr you can speak to for a referral?


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## Mussi (Dec 7, 2015)

"i am going to try this- start a shower without soap and call for her to bring it into the bathroom. 
not saying i expect her to get in the shower but if she walks in and sees my boner through the see-through shower door then it might be a sign she wants me."

Please whatever you do don't do this!! This is sexual harassment, you can traumatize her and she can sue you for it. 

Honestly given the level of insight you are displaying you are either doing a very good job at trolling us all, or you are having a hard time with social and especially sexual interactions and boundaries. 

You don't seem to at all respect her boundaries and you don't seem to care about her in the slightest, otherwise you would put yourself in her shoes and understand how incredibly inappropriate and uncomfortable all of this is to her. What you are doing, oogling at her in all her outfits, taking advantage of her trusting nature is not ok. If you have some decency then move out so you are not putting this woman in this extremely uncomfortable position. She should know about your lust for her so she can start locking her door and looking for a new roommate if need be. You are coming across as a sexual preditor in the making, as a woman I feel scared for your roommate. 

I'm sorry if you are having a tough time, especially with your mom passing, but is there anyone else you can turn to in the real world who can give you some guidance?


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

^ its ok i won't do the shower thing.
i just emailed her my feelings, and i'll see if she says anything in person or replies.
its 3.31am now, so she has not read the email yet.


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> That was for a specific thing, I'm talking more general help to figure out why you are so behind your peers and have the issues that you do.
> Your behaviors and obsession are not normal and are going to end up getting you in a lot of trouble if you don't get help to manage them. Things like rubbing lotion on the woman at the beach and having an orgasm from it could have gotten you arrested but you don't seem to understand that it is even unacceptable.
> 
> Do you have a family Dr you can speak to for a referral?


that lady on the beach did not see it, so its no harm to her 0 
i know its wrong though but i can't control that reaction, and i had not touched a girl/lady so close to her buttocks before that so impossible to predict how i'd feel from it.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

marriage_student said:


> ladies/girls have made me come (and i don't mean girls on the computer/tv) including a girl when i was at school named elizabeth but known as lizzy):


No. *You* made you cum, they probably didn't even know about it. You put in a previous post that you had offered to rub in someones suntan lotion and then you came in your pants. That is not part of being a teen that is the action of someone with serious issues.



> if she doesn't want me as a boyfriend i want to be her friend
> i'll be honest but as long as if she rejects me i can stay on as her friend/roommate.


Why? You haven't been honest so far. You moved in as a roommate with the intention of ogling her and finding an opportunity to make out with her. That isn't honest that is being an outright liar.

If you really respect her and want to be honest then go and tell her how you feel and why you moved in. Then see what she says and how she feels. Don't just grab her and try to kiss her, or worse, because that is a sexual assault in any 1st world country.

How will you feel when you are roommates and she has a man over? Will you lie in bed listening and then say she made you come and think that you were involved somehow?



> i haven't met anyone as warm and sexual as her.
> none of the girls my age are as good physically or mentally.
> i guess i can't choose who i fall in love with.
> she might see me as a kid brother or she might not


You are mixing up sexy, which is an appearance, with sexual which is a feeling. 

The fact that you can make out her nipples when she is walking around with a shirt and bra on doesn't mean that she is trying to lead you on it means that you have no idea that some women just are visible sometimes. When she walks round in a tank top that is because she is in her own home not that she's trying to show herself off to you.

Many people sleep with their bedroom doors open, it isn't an invite for you to go in during the night but I don't think you understand that. She is entitled to feel safe in her own home.

You can't trick yourself into someone else's life and then make their behaviors fit into your perception of what you want.

You have problems. You have really serious problems and you need to find somewhere else to live before you do something that could hurt her or end up with you in jail for a long time.

I really hope that this is a troll, if it isn't then I hope that you will take no for an answer and not do something to ruin two peoples lives.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Mussi said:


> You are coming across as a sexual preditor in the making, as a woman I feel scared for your roommate.


:iagree:

As a man I feel scared for his roommate.


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

Wonky Ninja that action on the beach was impossible to control. and if i knew it was going to happen i'd not have rubbed her leg 

that's ok Wonky Ninja, i'm 100% honest with my roommate because an hour ago i sent her an email with my feelings about her explained.
i won't paste the email here because its private, but one bit said "i don't want to ruin our living arrangement or make it awkward, but i want you to know my feelings in case you feel the same way. if you don't feel the same way then just reply in email and i'll never bring it up again."
she will read it when she wakes up in a few hours. 

i agree i mixed up "sexual" with "sexy". 
and when i said she sleeps with her door opened i did not mean she was inviting me, i just said it to show that she's comfortable with me living with her and that i'm not scary


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

marriage_student said:


> and when i said she sleeps with her door opened i did not mean she was inviting me, i just said it to show that she's comfortable with me living with her and that i'm not scary


You are confusing her being "not scared" with you being "not scary". The former can be based solely upon the ignorance of danger. 

She has no idea that you thought about her luring into the shower so that you could show yourself off to her without her prior knowledge or consent. Her ignorance of that doesn't change the fact that you considered it. 

You need professional help.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

""there is this age gap but i don't look like a child, i'm fully developed. 
is there a way to give her the perfect chance to make a physical move before me? 
i am going to try this- start a shower without soap and call for her to bring it into the bathroom. 
not saying i expect her to get in the shower but if she walks in and sees my boner through the see-through shower door then it might be a sign she wants me.""

You have been watching wayyyy to much porn. I can't even think of anything else to say. Please let us know how the shower scenario works out.

((Shoot, in the time I typed my post you guys talked him out of the shower plan, and I already had the popcorn ready.))


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

^ i only thought of the shower idea when i was excited, i would definitely never go through with it 
the smarter thing was to write an email to her, and i did


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

marriage_student said:


> ^ i only thought of the shower idea when i was excited, i would definitely never go through with it
> the smarter thing was to write an email to her, and i did


You made the right choice. And telling her you'll never bring it up again if she's not interested was also the right choice. Good job.


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> You made the right choice. And telling her you'll never bring it up again if she's not interested was also the right choice. Good job.


thanks :grin2: good to feel some confidence :toast:


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

Cooper said:


> ""there is this age gap but i don't look like a child, i'm fully developed.
> is there a way to give her the perfect chance to make a physical move before me?
> i am going to try this- start a shower without soap and call for her to bring it into the bathroom.
> not saying i expect her to get in the shower but if she walks in and sees my boner through the see-through shower door then it might be a sign she wants me.""
> ...


i think i only said it because i'd imagined it a lot, but yeah as soon as i typed it a realized i'd not do it. but definitely amazing fun to imagine it happening :smthumbup:


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I sincerely hope this poster is a troll.


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

^ as the saying goes: "i'm nothing if not honest".
that's probably why i'm so controversial.
most people aren't as honest so they end up being a lot less-controversial than me.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

My honesty - or lack thereof - and my controversy speak for themselves.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

marriage_student said:


> ^ as the saying goes: "i'm nothing if not honest".
> that's probably why i'm so controversial.
> most people aren't as honest so they end up being a lot less-controversial than me.


Again a confusion in terms. "Borderline psychotic in dire need of a restraining order" and "controversial" are not the same thing.


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## Mussi (Dec 7, 2015)

I'm really glad you e-mailed her. Good call. Please keep making good choices that are safe and honest both for yourself and others.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

Call her over and look into her eyes. Then give her left breast a firm stroke while smiling. If she smiles back then you're good for the kiss. If she doesn't smile then she was ugly anyway so don't sweat it.

Obviously the above was meant as a joke however there is some truth in it. Make a move early on ie within a week (state your interest, go for a kiss, etc). You risk the friend zone it you take longer than that for whatever reason (you think it's too early, don't want to scare her away, etc). If you're rejected then you save yourself weeks of lost time and torment (should i try now, did i miss my chance, why did she just act that way, etc). If you're not rejected then its all good!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

NewBoundariesMan said:


> Call her over and look into her eyes. Then give her left breast a firm stroke while smiling. If she smiles back then you're good for the kiss. If she doesn't smile then she was ugly anyway so don't sweat it.
> 
> Obviously the above was meant as a joke however there is some truth in it. Make a move early on ie within a week (state your interest, go for a kiss, etc). You risk the friend zone it you take longer than that for whatever reason (you think it's too early, don't want to scare her away, etc). If you're rejected then you save yourself weeks of lost time and torment (should i try now, did i miss my chance, why did she just act that way, etc). If you're not rejected then its all good!


You do realize that this teen is functioning more at the level of a 12 year old? Do you really think his biggest worry right now is if a 30 year old woman who let him stay at her house will "friend zone" him? 

Last week he was all staring at the neighbor's wife thinking she was flirting with him and then he was wondering if he should go to a sex addicts meeting to find a woman who'd be ok with him organisming before he takes off his clothes or if a virgin would be better. 
He asked random women at the beach to rub lotion on them and thinks, even for a minute, that it's ok to ask this roommate into the bathroom in a plan to have her see his penis.

He doesn't understand boundaries, women or how to properly conduct himself. He also doesn't get jokes and thinks the "suggestions" given are serious. He needs help, not tips on how to go in for a kiss. He's going to get himself arrested and get some poor woman traumatized.


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## spunkycat08 (Nov 14, 2013)

The last thing the OP needs are ideas on how to get his female landlord to want to be his girlfriend.


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## Mussi (Dec 7, 2015)

Guys, granted this kid could benefit from therapy to help him better understand social norms and boundaries and to help him come to a healthy expression of his sexuality, but belittling him online is not the way to go either in my opinion. Put yourself in his shoes, if you are having a hard time understanding social norms and boundaries you probably are getting bullied plenty in real life by your peers. Calling him names online is not the way forward. 

I think indeed the OP needs to learn boundaries and acceptable behaviour with the other gender, but there is also a kind yet firm way of giving guidance and helping someone forward who is probably quite fragile and could benefit from your experience and your knowhow. He asked questions, he's quite honest about his thoughts and feelings, even when they deviate from the norm, and that combined with going online to ask for advice is a positive thing. This way he could benefit from the knowledge and advice of people with more experience and bullying him or making jokes that he might misunderstand will only cause him not to seek help or advice next time around.

He did the right thing coming on here and asking questions and getting advice. Granted he could better have given the whole background in his initial message, but in the end he did receive advice and followed through with it by e-mailing her and being honest with her. We can give him props for that. 

I hope it works out well for him, and with that I don't mean that he hooks up with his landlady, but that he learns that being honest and respecting boundaries is the way forward in the future, and that when in doubt, it's always good to seek help and advice from friends, family or an online community.

To the OP: I understand that your sexual desires are coming up strong for you at this point in your life, but I would advice you to seek some counselling before engaging in a romantic or sexual relationship with anyone as I think the priority for you is not to get your first romantic or sexual encounter, but to first learn what behaviours and approaches will ensure that both you and any future women you desire are emotionally and mentally safe and healthy throughout the process of desire, courting, dating and parting ways. And I would suggest that your counsellor not be an attractive female, rather a male or a female for whom you have no sexual desire.


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## woman (Aug 19, 2011)

spotthedeaddog said:


> say what?
> your boyfriend isn't your friend? or that you shouldn't get to be a friend and learn about someone before seeing if you really want to take things to the next step?
> 
> too many guys end up friendzoned and being preyed on women for support and cash/treats; while they burn a candle and she's happy to let them buy their way into her attention zone for a while until better offers come along.




There's no such thing as the friend zone.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Well, how did she react to your email? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Well, how did she react to your email?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


hello Elizabeth :ezpi_wink1: 
pretty amazing she said she thought the movie we went to was meant to be a date anyway so she said we can date more to see how it goes  so looks like i should have kissed her at the cinema  but i'm lucky i can still do it on the next date i know for sure now  plus today i spoke to her after my shower with my towel on (and nothing else) just to see what would happen, but she didn't do anything but i know we can date for real that's the main thing  we are ten pin bowling tomorrow night and dinner dating :cat::fish:


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

NewBoundariesMan said:


> Call her over and look into her eyes. Then give her left breast a firm stroke while smiling. If she smiles back then you're good for the kiss. If she doesn't smile then she was ugly anyway so don't sweat it.
> 
> Obviously the above was meant as a joke however there is some truth in it. Make a move early on ie within a week (state your interest, go for a kiss, etc). You risk the friend zone it you take longer than that for whatever reason (you think it's too early, don't want to scare her away, etc). If you're rejected then you save yourself weeks of lost time and torment (should i try now, did i miss my chance, why did she just act that way, etc). If you're not rejected then its all good!


lucky my genius-email saved me from being friend-zoned :nerd:



Mussi said:


> Guys, granted this kid could benefit from therapy to help him better understand social norms and boundaries and to help him come to a healthy expression of his sexuality, but belittling him online is not the way to go either in my opinion. Put yourself in his shoes, if you are having a hard time understanding social norms and boundaries you probably are getting bullied plenty in real life by your peers. Calling him names online is not the way forward.
> 
> I think indeed the OP needs to learn boundaries and acceptable behaviour with the other gender, but there is also a kind yet firm way of giving guidance and helping someone forward who is probably quite fragile and could benefit from your experience and your knowhow. He asked questions, he's quite honest about his thoughts and feelings, even when they deviate from the norm, and that combined with going online to ask for advice is a positive thing. This way he could benefit from the knowledge and advice of people with more experience and bullying him or making jokes that he might misunderstand will only cause him not to seek help or advice next time around.
> 
> ...


i'll try for a counsellor but only if its online.
i found the last counsellor nerve-racking to have to talk outloud about emotional things, too intense.
maybe my roommate will be such a great lover that she is my counsellor in a way as we get closer and closer and closer....


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Congrats 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mussi (Dec 7, 2015)

Great! Good luck on your date.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

God bless you please Mrs. Robinson...Jesus loves you more than you will know...wo wo wo. 

Nailed it 

ETA: ...OR whoa whoa whoa! Bwahaaa!

You only live once 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Seriously all your posts creep me the heck out. :surprise:

I can't decide if you are being real or not, but I really hope not...


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Seriously all your posts creep me the heck out. :surprise:
> 
> I can't decide if you are being real or not, but I really hope not...


i'm probably the most honest person in the world, that's why my posts sound creepy. 
i don't censor before i type.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

marriage_student said:


> i'm probably the most honest person in the world, that's why my posts sound creepy.
> i don't censor before i type.


No you sound creepy because you have no respect or knowledge of boundaries and talk about women like they are pieces of meat with _pink _nipples.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Does the situation with the landlady and the poster cause anyone else a sick feeling in their stomach? Why in the world would she want a guy so young and inexperienced? Just hope she's kind when she breaks his heart.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Does the situation with the landlady and the poster cause anyone else a sick feeling in their stomach? Why in the world would she want a guy so young and inexperienced? Just hope she's kind when she breaks his heart.


Idk, I think his real username should be something like Pool_Boy18 or Cabana_Kid or Crazy4Cougars


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

marriage_student said:


> TheCuriousWife said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously all your posts creep me the heck out.
> ...


When you show us the real, uncensored you, a lot of women think you sound creepy.

That should tell you something about the way you come across to women.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

JukeboxHero said:


> Idk, I think his real username should be something like Pool_Boy18 or Cabana_Kid or Crazy4Cougars


Those are great names but they all insinuate a guy with experience. Maybe it should be VirginAtLarge.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

He's a kid. I admire his honesty. At least he's here trying to figure it out. 

As for the roommate, Cougarism seems to be accepted more and more lately. 

Eta: if the word "Cougarism" catches on, you heard it here first


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Elizabeth001 said:


> He's a kid. I admire his honesty. At least he's here trying to figure it out.
> 
> As for the roommate, Cougarism seems to be accepted more and more lately.
> 
> Eta: if the word "Cougarism" catches on, you heard it here first


Have you read his early posts? Honesty is not a word that would come out of them.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

marriage_student said:


> hello Elizabeth :ezpi_wink1:
> pretty amazing she said she thought the movie we went to was meant to be a date anyway so she said we can date more to see how it goes  so looks like i should have kissed her at the cinema  but i'm lucky i can still do it on the next date i know for sure now  plus today i spoke to her after my shower with my towel on (and nothing else) just to see what would happen, but she didn't do anything but i know we can date for real that's the main thing  we are ten pin bowling tomorrow night and dinner dating :cat::fish:


Just a couple.....just because you're on a date, a first date, doesn't mean they want to kiss you. Second, wtf did you expect to happen while you stood there in your towel? 

Scott


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

NoSizeQueen said:


> When you show us the real, uncensored you, a lot of women think you sound creepy.
> 
> That should tell you something about the way you come across to women.


not just the women.
Reminds me of the old guy (Mr Roper) off Three's Company.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> You made the right choice. And telling her you'll never bring it up again if she's not interested was also the right choice. Good job.


If she's not interested, she is very likely to ask him to move out, it would be an understandable thing to do with a young male with pretty average obsessions. come back when he's housetrained.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

"Cougarism"-sorry Elizabeth, already a real thing.

Maybe we have been looking at this scenario the wrong way, maybe the woman has been the aggressor the entire time, Marriage _Student could be a victim here. Who knows why, maybe Marriage_Student is a damn good looking guy and the woman is truly attracted to him, maybe he has showed his "package" while in his tennis shorts and the woman is overcome with lust. Maybe she's a dominatrix and she sees a new boy toy that's still trainable and is going to make him her sex slave.

Maybe Marriage_Student is living off a trust fund !!!

To Marriage_Student; I will admit your thinking is a bit off in my opinion, and I have had trouble believing you're not a troll, but I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt here and just assume you're very naive. Truthfully I think you have made two mistakes. First is confusing love with lust, you want this woman and fantasize about this woman, you feel a strong desire and attraction for this woman, that is lust plain and simple. The second mistake was moving in with this woman, there's a chance this will end badly and you could still be stuck for a years rent. 

Lust is a wonderful thing, learn to enjoy it, but don't confuse it for love, love takes time. And never ever over commit because of the hope of getting sex, that's just nuts and will cost you dearly, that's a lesson nearly ever man learns the hard way.
There's a song by Meatloff called "Paradise by the dashboard lights", go listen to it Marriage_Student, it's a great metaphor for your current scenario.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Cooper said:


> "Cougarism"-sorry Elizabeth, already a real thing.



Damn. 

Great post!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## marriage_student (Nov 24, 2015)

NoSizeQueen said:


> When you show us the real, uncensored you, a lot of women think you sound creepy.
> 
> That should tell you something about the way you come across to women.


if everyone said what was on their mind, very creepy indeedy :surprise:



Blondilocks said:


> Those are great names but they all insinuate a guy with experience. Maybe it should be VirginAtLarge.


she might think "either thats a banana in his pocket or my nipple peaks are nice and clear mmmmmm....."
not saying all ladies like it but she must feel very good or i'd probably be kicked out for being Large.



Elizabeth001 said:


> He's a kid. I admire his honesty. At least he's here trying to figure it out.
> 
> As for the roommate, Cougarism seems to be accepted more and more lately.
> 
> Eta: if the word "Cougarism" catches on, you heard it here first


hi Elizabeth :wink2: there is a tv series based on cougarism, but i haven't seen it yet.
i wonder what school teachers feel like when they have nice big boobs and they know the male students want some. even if not a cougar it must make her delicate thighs feel wiggly :wink2:



Sbrown said:


> Just a couple.....just because you're on a date, a first date, doesn't mean they want to kiss you. Second, wtf did you expect to happen while you stood there in your towel?
> 
> Scott


well i've kissed her since then but it was not on the date, i decided not to. 
but i ended up kissing her after a mixed doubles tennis match because the tradition is all 4 players either do a kiss or a handshake. the males usually kiss the females on the cheek but i kissed her on her lucious lips :x 
that was the ice-breaker and we kiss on the couch now 
the towel thing is just flirting like "its here if you want it". 



Cooper said:


> "Cougarism"-sorry Elizabeth, already a real thing.
> 
> Maybe we have been looking at this scenario the wrong way, maybe the woman has been the aggressor the entire time, Marriage _Student could be a victim here. Who knows why, maybe Marriage_Student is a damn good looking guy and the woman is truly attracted to him, maybe he has showed his "package" while in his tennis shorts and the woman is overcome with lust. Maybe she's a dominatrix and she sees a new boy toy that's still trainable and is going to make him her sex slave.
> 
> ...


well probably the first thing that drew me to her was her eyes, i could tell from the looks she gave me that her mind was on exciting things.
well if its true that its lust and not love well maybe it will be love at some point. i bet some couples start off with lust. we kiss on the couch now and we don't need to go to sex, actually she said its not good to rush because my hormones are driving me and she said its not good to base everything on my hormones. sounds like she thinks like you a bit! 
plus she has this thing called Pleasure Delaying. it might sound a bit too rude if i try to explain it!
that meatloaf singer is very skillful, thanks friend :smthumbup:


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

NoSizeQueen said:


> When you show us the real, uncensored you, a lot of women think you sound creepy.
> 
> That should tell you something about the way you come across to women.


I'm a man, and even I think he is creepy.


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