# He loved but how deeply? Please help me see clear



## Esmeralda (Apr 18, 2018)

I've been on both sides of infidelity, I was the other woman who left her husband for the one who left his wife and after 7 years betrayed me. Before you judge me and say I deserve it make sure you are perfect. We both went through hell to be together. I am 11 younger then him and his affair partner 21 years younger then him. We both swore to cherish each other and be loyal and honest. I was transformed and knew this relationship is the last one. I committed. After he bertrayed me we had extremely emotional times. He said he developed feelings for OW but has strong feelings for me. He was swinging beetwen us but asked me not to leave. I love him deeply and wanted to know if we can fix us. I made a deal with myself, I can only try if I can see I am the one and only. I needed to know what the affair meant to him, I did not worry about the OW much. It was all about him and why he crossed the line. The OW is married and has a child. He told her he never wants to see her. We've been trying and he has been lovely, we booked holliday, he holds my hand says that we are great together, loves sex with me and makes plans for future. But, he does not want to talk about affair, says it makes things worse, just wants to move But, I can't and I said to move on I need to know I am the one in his heart and she is not. I said I need to know if she would be free, or left her husband where he would be. Finally and sadly, 3 days ago after a really nice weekend , cuddling in bed, he suddenly pulled away and said coldly. If the woman was free he would have gone with her...He seemed so genuine in his efforts to repear us and then this. It was like 2 different people. I am sad at his cruelty to lead me on for 5 months and not letting me go before. Did he even love me? How to move on after the double betrayal? Thanking you kindly.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I am sorry you are here but the first rule of infidelity is if they did it to their first love, (former wife) they will do it to you. It sounds like you have a serial cheater on your hands, there is nothing to save, better you let him go and save yourself.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I don’t think you have anything to worry about.

Well... no more than his first wife did, anyway.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 18, 2018)

Thank you. You are right. But saying once a cheater is always a cheater is not always true. I did It, but I would never do it again. The heartache and guilt is not worth it. It is hard to break others hearts and start new relationship with a lie. I changed


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> I've been on both sides of infidelity, I was the other woman who left her husband for the one who left his wife and after 7 years betrayed me. Before you judge me and say I deserve it make sure you are perfect. We both went through hell to be together. I am 11 younger then him and his affair partner 21 years younger then him. We both swore to cherish each other and be loyal and honest. I was transformed and knew this relationship is the last one. I committed. After he bertrayed me we had extremely emotional times. He said he developed feelings for OW but has strong feelings for me. He was swinging beetwen us but asked me not to leave. I love him deeply and wanted to know if we can fix us. I made a deal with myself, I can only try if I can see I am the one and only. I needed to know what the affair meant to him, I did not worry about the OW much. It was all about him and why he crossed the line. The OW is married and has a child. He told her he never wants to see her. We've been trying and he has been lovely, we booked holliday, he holds my hand says that we are great together, loves sex with me and makes plans for future. But, he does not want to talk about affair, says it makes things worse, just wants to move But, I can't and I said to move on I need to know I am the one in his heart and she is not. I said I need to know if she would be free, or left her husband where he would be. Finally and sadly, 3 days ago after a really nice weekend , cuddling in bed, he suddenly pulled away and said coldly. If the woman was free he would have gone with her...He seemed so genuine in his efforts to repear us and then this. It was like 2 different people. I am sad at his cruelty to lead me on for 5 months and not letting me go before. Did he even love me? How to move on after the double betrayal? Thanking you kindly.


I'll point out the low level hanging fruit and then get to the more opinion stuff after.

#1 - He is a serial cheater incapable of monogamy. I have my doubts that he was faithful even before the 7 years were up. Did you spend a lot of time together? If so, he was probably having minor 'affairs' during your relationship but kept you as his main Girlfriend. I hope you see the pattern here however and the pattern he would have applied to her as well. It seems like every so many years, he's trading in his current main relationship for someone about 10 years younger than who he's in a relationship with.

#2 - And this is the thing from a rational standpoint that I'll never get but I have to understand that in affairs and logistics don't mean a damn thing vs. emotions and the chemical highs in an affair. That someone that committed adultery to be with someone would not do the same thing to them? I realize, in a lot of cases, especially to the woman, that they think the affair partner just wasn't right with his wife, that you were the one for him and this is both of your get out of jail free cards but 9 out of 10 times, you just happen to be the one he is cheating with at that time and once he has had his way and things start to get real or boring, they move on to the next one.

Long story short, you got caught up in the emotions and the fairy tale of it all but it all ended the way that it normally does when two people come together in these circumstance. He might have loved you but people like this, are they capable of real love? I'm learning that people like this are in love with an idea, with a feeling. Real love requires commitment, maturity and choosing each other everyday in spite their faults and their weaknesses. 

I gave you my answer now as you would be so kind, would be a great contribution if you could give us some insight, cold hard truthful insight into why you got into the affair in the first place and why you left your husband?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Thank you. You are right. *But saying once a cheater is always a cheater is not always true.* I did It, but I would never do it again. The heartache and guilt is not worth it. It is hard to break others hearts and start new relationship with a lie. I changed


It’s true often enough that the instances in which it turns out not to be true really don’t matter.

No one is perfect, and most of us tend to reap what we sow.

And, often enough, we deserve it.


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## kekkek (Apr 5, 2018)

Esmeralda said:


> I've been on both sides of infidelity, I was the other woman who left her husband for the one who left his wife and after 7 years betrayed me. Before you judge me and say I deserve it make sure you are perfect. We both went through hell to be together. I am 11 younger then him and his affair partner 21 years younger then him. We both swore to cherish each other and be loyal and honest. I was transformed and knew this relationship is the last one. I committed. After he bertrayed me we had extremely emotional times. He said he developed feelings for OW but has strong feelings for me. He was swinging beetwen us but asked me not to leave. I love him deeply and wanted to know if we can fix us. I made a deal with myself, I can only try if I can see I am the one and only. I needed to know what the affair meant to him, I did not worry about the OW much. It was all about him and why he crossed the line. The OW is married and has a child. He told her he never wants to see her. We've been trying and he has been lovely, we booked holliday, he holds my hand says that we are great together, loves sex with me and makes plans for future. But, he does not want to talk about affair, says it makes things worse, just wants to move But, I can't and I said to move on I need to know I am the one in his heart and she is not. I said I need to know if she would be free, or left her husband where he would be. Finally and sadly, 3 days ago after a really nice weekend , cuddling in bed, he suddenly pulled away and said coldly. If the woman was free he would have gone with her...He seemed so genuine in his efforts to repear us and then this. It was like 2 different people. I am sad at his cruelty to lead me on for 5 months and not letting me go before. Did he even love me? How to move on after the double betrayal? Thanking you kindly.


A few reactions to this:
1. No, you don't have "make sure you are perfect" to be able to say that infidelity is wrong. Same about lying, cruelty, any number of bad behaviors.
2. You "went through hell to be together". Yes, and it looks like you put your first husband and his wife through hell too.
3. Maybe not "always", but cheaters cheat, most of the time. It is how they get their name. You knowingly chose a cheater to be with. And you got the standard outcome. I am not saying you "deserve" it as a punishment kind of thing, but karma, what goes around comes around, what did you expect? etc...
4. Looks like he traded for a younger model, which is fairly typical. Let me guess, his wife was about his age. Then he finds you, 11 years younger, now 21 years younger. If he could pull 31 years younger, I sure OM would try that too.
5. Most importantly...you said you could "try to see if I am the one and only". By the time he has an OW, there is no one and only. That is just basic logic. It is that kind of twisted thinking that will keep getting you into trouble. Like trying to call on the vows you made with OM, when you ignored the vows to your husband. You can't pretend these things don't exist. "He's having an affair, but I'm the one he really loves" is a line from a fantasy film, not real life.

You might be curious about my background. I have been the BS, as described here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/417377-contact-ex.html
. My ex-WW's 3rd marriage with the OM didn't last long either  :wink2:


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## kekkek (Apr 5, 2018)

Another thought. The fact that the OM went for a married woman 21 years younger with a child shows that he has zero boundaries and is probably hunting for anyone with some kind of vulnerability he can exploit. Like stillfightforus said, it is only 1 out of 10 times, or less, that the affair represents some kind of "true love" that found two people previously stuck in unhappy relationships. With OM's second affair as evidence, I am giving it a 99 out of 100 chance that he is just a bad man.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Esmeralda, sadly i think you might have left your husband for him based on love but to be honest i don't think he know what love really is, frankly he will leave her as well, its the next person that you should be concern about...the advice i have for you is to leave him...he is not the man you thought he was and i don't think he ever was. As noted above he was a serial cheater, he gets this sense of high in doing so...he pursued you until he had you, and now he is pursuing her. Sorry


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Esmeralda said:


> Thank you. You are right. But saying once a cheater is always a cheater is not always true. I did It, but I would never do it again. The heartache and guilt is not worth it. It is hard to break others hearts and start new relationship with a lie. I changed


Your SO didn’t change. 

Just like his previous wife he is tired of you.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 18, 2018)

Let me tell you one thing dear posters. I am not looking for your sympathy as you might have thought. I am searching for may be more insightful answers : why happy people cheat as opposite to 'karma' and obvious he cheated on her so he will cheat on you comments. I was aware of this and took the risk. one poster commented: 9 times out of 10 it does not work. Yeah, 9/10 does not. That means one out of 10 does! Yes, I am broken hearted but don't take my vulnerability for weakness. I will never go for affair again for all the destruction it causes but despite the sad end of this one I have no regrets as I loved. I loved. So, if you just irritated by my post please move to other posts.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Esmeralda said:


> Let me tell you one thing dear posters. I am not looking for your sympathy as you might have thought. I am searching for may be more insightful answers : why happy people cheat as opposite to 'karma' and obvious he cheated on her so he will cheat on you comments. I was aware of this and took the risk. one poster commented: 9 times out of 10 it does not work. Yeah, 9/10 does not. That means one out of 10 does! Yes, I am broken hearted but don't take my vulnerability for weakness. I will never go for affair again for all the destruction it causes but despite the sad end of this one I have no regrets as I loved. I loved. So, if you just irritated by my post please move to other posts.


Well, here's an insightful answer.
After reading all of your posts I'd say the issue is not Karma, It's narcissism......Yours.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 18, 2018)

To stillsearching: no, not very insightful. Brush up on narcissism before throwing this word around without knowing much about it.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Why happy people cheat is an easy question. It's a combination of opportunity, the thought they'll get away with it, the lack of fear of consequences, and low morals.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

OP - how old was his first wife? Similar age? Seems there's a pattern here where he likes a girl of a certain age and then feels obliged to to trade up every 5-10 years or so to maintain.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Thank you. You are right. But saying once a cheater is always a cheater is not always true. I did It, but I would never do it again. The heartache and guilt is not worth it. It is hard to break others hearts and start new relationship with a lie. I changed


I too believe that once a cheater is always a cheater is not always true. But, there are those that are. It appears you H is. You turned over a new leaf when you committed to this man. It may be good to used the new you to find another that respects the new you.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Our culture has been lax in societal norms. A "greying" of right and wrong and how we perceive this. Cheating can be talked about in many contexts and I suppose it can be different in many cultures and languages as well.

As for the love...Science has even broken down the mysterious "high" we get into a bunch of chemical reactions in our brains. The bonding we get from sexual activity, time spent with each other as well as just sleeping has a draw to our primordial selves.

As well as it has been explained. If I choose to be part of a community or society that is civilized, I choose to have a partner that in fidelity and trust I can love and honor for the sake of a family....

Sorry you are going through this.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Esmeralda said:


> Let me tell you one thing dear posters. I am not looking for your sympathy as you might have thought. I am searching for may be more insightful answers : why happy people cheat as opposite to 'karma' and obvious he cheated on her so he will cheat on you comments. I was aware of this and took the risk. one poster commented: 9 times out of 10 it does not work. Yeah, 9/10 does not. That means one out of 10 does! Yes, I am broken hearted but don't take my vulnerability for weakness. I will never go for affair again for all the destruction it causes but despite the sad end of this one I have no regrets as I loved. I loved. So, if you just irritated by my post please move to other posts.



Happy people cheat because they don't have boundaries. Unhappy people cheat because they feel they deserve it. Either way, it comes down to selfishness. What do two selfish people with lousy boundaries and/or entitlement complexes get together? A 10% chance at a happy marriage. Starting a relationship on a lie makes it even harder.

Your gut and every else here knows this guy isn't capable of being faithful to you, whether or not you are capable. I don't believe "once a cheater always a cheater" but I do believe in patterns. I'm willing to bet this guy has never been faithful in any relationship. And what would make him start now? You didn't think you were a special snowflake did you?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Esmeralda said:


> To stillsearching: no, not very insightful. Brush up on narcissism before throwing this word around without knowing much about it.


Your answer is within you.
Look toward the future you want and do what you need today to reach it.
I know more about narcissism than you might think. I lived with one for 25 years and studied it extensively.
My point was to shake you up a little.
You need compare yourself to who YOU were yesterday. Not him or anyone else. 
Your original post was quite a projection onto others. 
You can find peace and meaning only if you are introspective, only if you take responsibility to fix your future.
Narcissist cannot do that.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

Esmeralda said:


> Let me tell you one thing dear posters. I am not looking for your sympathy as you might have thought. I am searching for may be more insightful answers : why happy people cheat as opposite to 'karma' and obvious he cheated on her so he will cheat on you comments. I was aware of this and took the risk. one poster commented: 9 times out of 10 it does not work. Yeah, 9/10 does not. That means one out of 10 does! Yes, I am broken hearted but don't take my vulnerability for weakness. I will never go for affair again for all the destruction it causes but despite the sad end of this one I have no regrets as I loved. I loved. So, if you just irritated by my post please move to other posts.


1 in 10 is a pipe dream. 

My wife and I have been helping couples in real life and online for two decades. We've met 1000's of couples and read 10,000 more in all those years and have not come upon even ONE somewhat normal healthy happy adulterous marriage. They are always dysfunctional and you'll never be #1 (mostly because you'll never supplant him from that position). 

Your best hope might be that you could be the first.

End your affair and apologize to your first husband and see if he'd be interested in reconciling. Your first husband is literally your only shot at having a non-adulterous non-tumultuous 'happy' relationship.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Quality said:


> 1 in 10 is a pipe dream.
> 
> My wife and I have been helping couples in real life and online for two decades. We've met 1000's of couples and read 10,000 more in all those years and have not come upon even ONE somewhat normal healthy happy adulterous marriage. They are always dysfunctional and you'll never be #1 (mostly because you'll never supplant him from that position).
> 
> ...


She will NEVER do this.
Apologize....she'd never do that either.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

I'm still curious on if there was, in at least her mind, reasons she left her husband. Maybe even a story on how he is doing now. That type of background could ultimately help us help Esmeralda


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

StillSearching said:


> She will NEVER do this.
> Apologize....she'd never do that either.


She will when the real suffering finally peels away the fantastical soulmate delusion. Or, he will, when he tires of her complaining. It's not like either of them have a strong marriage ethic.

That said, I've also, over the years, met countless former wayward men and women that have come to repentance and changed. Go on mission trips and you'll come upon divorced men and women atoning for their past mistakes and sins and when you ask them if they are dating or looking for a relationship they'll tell you they surrendered their right to pursue such when they abandoned their first spouse. 

There is always hope and people aren't disposable. 

First step to becoming a decent person again is she needs to get out of this affair [it didn't stop being adultery just because she pretend married her paramour].

The gift of repentance can only be received after you "go, and sin no more". 

Until then, continued suffering is guaranteed.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Quality said:


> I've also, over the years, met countless former wayward men and women that have come to repentance and changed. Go on mission trips and you'll come upon divorced men and women atoning for their past mistakes and sins and when you ask them if they are dating or looking for relationship they'll tell you they surrendered their right to pursue such when they abandoned their first spouse.
> 
> There is always hope and people aren't disposable.
> 
> ...


How many Narc's have you seem turn around their behavior? 
It doesn't happen.
They won't repent, they have no empathy, they talk but they are not really intimate.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

This one is very easy. He went with her because she is younger and prettier than you and that feeds his ego and lust very well. Love has nothing to do with it. He doesn't love anyone apart from himself. Hope that kind of clears up the fact that he is a narcissist at the very least.

As for you, I guess what everyone is saying is that there is a lesson to be learned. And that is generally (maybe 9 times out of 10), what goes round comes round and based on that with the minimal of hindsight, maybe you should have seen this coming? 

All the best. How is your ex doing by the way ?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Esmeralda said:


> Let me tell you one thing dear posters. I am not looking for your sympathy as you might have thought. I am searching for may be more insightful answers : why happy people cheat as opposite to 'karma' and obvious he cheated on her so he will cheat on you comments. I was aware of this and took the risk. one poster commented: 9 times out of 10 it does not work. Yeah, 9/10 does not. That means one out of 10 does! Yes, I am broken hearted but don't take my vulnerability for weakness. I will never go for affair again for all the destruction it causes but despite the sad end of this one I have no regrets as I loved. I loved. So, if you just irritated by my post please move to other posts.





Esmeralda said:


> Thank you. You are right. But saying once a cheater is always a cheater is not always true. I did It, but I would never do it again. The heartache and guilt is not worth it. It is hard to break others hearts and start new relationship with a lie. I changed





Esmeralda said:


> I've been on both sides of infidelity, I was the other woman who left her husband for the one who left his wife and after 7 years betrayed me. Before you judge me and say I deserve it make sure you are perfect. We both went through hell to be together. I am 11 younger then him and his affair partner 21 years younger then him. We both swore to cherish each other and be loyal and honest. I was transformed and knew this relationship is the last one. I committed. After he bertrayed me we had extremely emotional times. He said he developed feelings for OW but has strong feelings for me. He was swinging beetwen us but asked me not to leave. I love him deeply and wanted to know if we can fix us. I made a deal with myself, I can only try if I can see I am the one and only. I needed to know what the affair meant to him, I did not worry about the OW much. It was all about him and why he crossed the line. The OW is married and has a child. He told her he never wants to see her. We've been trying and he has been lovely, we booked holliday, he holds my hand says that we are great together, loves sex with me and makes plans for future. But, he does not want to talk about affair, says it makes things worse, just wants to move But, I can't and I said to move on I need to know I am the one in his heart and she is not. I said I need to know if she would be free, or left her husband where he would be. Finally and sadly, 3 days ago after a really nice weekend , cuddling in bed, he suddenly pulled away and said coldly. If the woman was free he would have gone with her...He seemed so genuine in his efforts to repear us and then this. It was like 2 different people. I am sad at his cruelty to lead me on for 5 months and not letting me go before. Did he even love me? How to move on after the double betrayal? Thanking you kindly.


 @Esmeralda, Please do not get defensive. I won't blast you, like you feel others are doing. 

I too have been on both sides of this. But the heartbrokenness that you feel now I normal, expected, and frankly this is what your husband felt when you left him for this guy. 

What you are feeling now, is not only the grief of loosing your relationship, but now you are feeling the other side of the betrayal you perpetrated on someone else. It hurt, it hurts like hell. 

None of that if to bash you, lots of us have been there. Just losing a relationship where you were deeply in love with the other person is bad enough. Then you add the pain of betrayal on top of that, and it is what 2 or 3 times as bad, at least. Then somewhere inside you is the realization of the pain that you caused your ex husband. Even if he was literally the worst husband ever, it hurt him like you are hurting now. 

You are dealing with all of this at once, even if you don't want to admit that you feel all of these things they are there whether you want to admit it, whether you feel it or not. I all just hurts so bad. 

Why did he do it? Did he ever love you? Was her worth leaving your marriage for? These are all tough questions to answer. 

Why did he do it. Because he is a cheater. Because he is selfish. Because he has issues. Because he gets board easily. All these are the reasons that he did it. None of them make the pain go away immediately. 

Did he love you. I guess that he did for a time. But what you have to learn is that people like him, with his particular set of issues, really don't or cannot love on the same level that people like you and me love on. They just are not capable of it. But, then again, it often takes a long time to figure out about a person, and it looks like you have.

Was it worth is, leaving for him? Who knows. If you had several years of bliss maybe it was... If your marriage was dead or bad, maybe it was? But who really knows. 

If we could re-write history, I think we would all do it, but we cannot. 

You just have to move forward, and heal the best that you can. And start that part of your life over. 

But at least you know now that you don't want a man like him, even if you still think you do. You don't want a man like your Husband, or you would never be here. 

You should have a better idea what you want in the future. I for one, wish you well...


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

To be honest YOU will not appreciate the answers you seek about your husband AND the possible paths you face, because it will put a microscope up on your own affair and relationship with each other. It will challenge the core fantasies you have had about your once in a life time level love. You seek answers as a betrayed partner but are in a relationship based on another betrayal of others. You will be unable to divide the two because they are not divisible and if you were not a narcissist it could shatter you. and if you are you will shut down and not listen to insight because it challenges the entire foundation of your current life! 

(Im not here to post labels on you. I dont really know you enough, and you have posted so little to glean any insight on being a narcissist or not.)

i GET why you are so defensive, I get you need answers, but where you are coming from you are NOT GOING TO LIKE IT. 

I am sorry this happened. That you are here. I dont think you deserve this. I do think people can change, and Im sure you have... But not enough to see this without your affair based tinted glasses.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Quality said:


> 1 in 10 is a pipe dream.
> 
> My wife and I have been helping couples in real life and online for two decades. We've met 1000's of couples and read 10,000 more in all those years and have not come upon even ONE somewhat normal healthy happy adulterous marriage. They are always dysfunctional and you'll never be #1 (mostly because you'll never supplant him from that position).
> 
> ...


Sounds like they have ended both their marriages and been together for a few years before he cheated again. I can tell you right after Dday, I may have tried reconciliation. I'm now a couple years removed, but after a few months of being rid of ex-WW, there wasn't no way in bloody hell I'd even consider taking her back. I tasted the good life and it didn't include her anymore!!! In fact, he'd be certifiably insane to do so. That ship has sailed. Realistically, her only shot is dumping her serial-cheater and just moving on.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Maybe he can't sustain love long-term.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Why did he do it? Did he ever love you? Was it worth it?
All bad questions with no real answers...here are the real questions you should be asking.

Why did I do it?
Did I ever love my first husband?
Was loosing my first marriage worth it?
What can I do to make sure I am a better person than I used to be?
Can I be truthful to myself?
Can I dig deep and be honest with myself?
Can I change? because I cannot change anyone else.
Was this all about me and my feelings?
Do I feel real remorse for the first affair?......Etc.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Openminded said:


> Maybe he can't sustain love long-term.


It never was about him.


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## bethebetterman (Apr 5, 2018)

Hi Esmeralda. Sorry you are here.

Helpful specific insight is difficult as you haven't really told us much about OM. Based on him swinging backwards and forwards between the two of you he is likely someone who has never really grown up and finds it difficult to deal with conflict. By that I mean that he is not good at being honest and straightforward if it means that he will have to feel bad about himself or face reality or deal with a very emotional other half. Its also likely that he went with this other woman because she was available and because she made him feel good about himself. The same reason he probably started the affair with you. Did he waver for months or years when he left his wife to be with you? My guess is he did and only actually went through with it because you gave him no other choice if he wanted to continue seeing you. That and the fact that once his affair was exposed he probably no longer had the option of staying in his marriage. I know you wont want to hear this because like most BS you are in denial. You thought he was different, that you would be the exception. The relationship that started in an affair but which went on to be the one true love for both of you vindicating the hurt you both caused to your partners in order to be together. Now he is off with another younger woman you know the truth. Your relationship was not special to him, you were not the one. I know its difficult to hear and more difficult to accept but the man you left your husband for does not exist in real life. 

As this is a forum where we try to provide insight and help to everyone and we don't very often see a womans perspective on the triggers for an affair here it would be very helpful if you could provide some insight into why you started the affair. Were you bored, feeling trapped, in a rut, the sheer excitement of someone new? Please make it about you and your reasons rather than the ex Husband - whatever he was, however he treated you, you could have simply divorced him and started dating your new guy after you were both out of your marriages so why choose to have an affair. I (and i suspect many others here) are genuinely interested in what you have to say.


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## Pepe1970 (Aug 25, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> Let me tell you one thing dear posters. I am not looking for your sympathy as you might have thought. I am searching for may be more insightful answers : why happy people cheat as opposite to 'karma' and obvious he cheated on her so he will cheat on you comments. I was aware of this and took the risk. one poster commented: 9 times out of 10 it does not work. Yeah, 9/10 does not. That means one out of 10 does! Yes, I am broken hearted but don't take my vulnerability for weakness. I will never go for affair again for all the destruction it causes but despite the sad end of this one I have no regrets as I loved. I loved. So, if you just irritated by my post please move to other posts.


Esmeralda I have to say that I do admire your courage for comming here an post your thread and assuming you know this forum is an ocean of hurt people ready to torture you and unload on you their hatred.
You based your relationship with this man on cheating. As you are human you hope that your situation will be the one out of ten, but at the expense of what?
Now you're seeing the results and here you are.
Funny, ain't it?

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Esmeralda said:


> I've been on both sides of infidelity, I was the other woman who left her husband for the one who left his wife and after 7 years betrayed me. Before you judge me and say I deserve it make sure you are perfect.


For God's sake, one doesn't have to be perfect in order to recognize ass-holery when they see it. Get over yourself.



> We both went through hell to be together. I am 11 younger then him and his affair partner 21 years younger then him. We both swore to cherish each other and be loyal and honest.


Come on, now. You both made the same promises to your first spouses and couldn't honor them, so why is it such a surprise to you that once again, Mr. Wonderful refused to honor his vows? 



> We've been trying and he has been lovely, we booked holliday, he holds my hand says that we are great together, loves sex with me and makes plans for future.


Not for nuthin', but it sounds as though he 'loves sex' with a whole LOT of women.



> ...I need to know I am the one in his heart and she is not. I said I need to know if she would be free, or left her husband where he would be. Finally and sadly, 3 days ago after a really nice weekend , cuddling in bed, he suddenly pulled away and said coldly. If the woman was free he would have gone with her...He seemed so genuine in his efforts to repair us and then this. It was like 2 different people.


I would imagine that you're in the *same exact place* his first wife was, when it was YOU he was cheating with and YOU who was hoping he'd leave her so you two could have your 'happily ever after.' Why, I'll bet she was feeling the same exact pain, betrayal and abandonment you're experiencing right now - except in her case, she did nothing to deserve it. Funny how the universe kind of rights itself every now and then, isn't it?



> I am sad at his cruelty to lead me on for 5 months and not letting me go before. Did he even love me? How to move on after the double betrayal? Thanking you kindly.


Why on EARTH would you expect anything more from someone *that* far down the food chain? Neither one of you showed an ounce of character or integrity in having your affair and leaving your spouses to be together, but at the same time, it could be said you were MADE for each other. But as far as expecting HONESTY from someone like that? Seriously?

Lastly, I'm going to assume you've never heard the old adage, "when a man marries his mistress, he creates a vacancy." That was never more true than it is in your case.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Sounds like they have ended both their marriages and been together for a few years before he cheated again. I can tell you right after Dday, I may have tried reconciliation. I'm now a couple years removed, but after a few months of being rid of ex-WW, there wasn't no way in bloody hell I'd even consider taking her back. I tasted the good life and it didn't include her anymore!!! In fact, he'd be certifiably insane to do so. That ship has sailed. Realistically, her only shot is dumping her serial-cheater and just moving on.


LOL, right?

I actually laughed out loud when I read the 'advice' for the OP to apologize to her ex-husband - the one she cheated on, lied to, and eventually deserted *7 years ago* - to see if he'd actually be interested in taking her back.

LMAO!!!

Yeah, and maybe Elvis will sing at their wedding when they remarry.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Esmeralda said:


> Thank you. You are right. But saying once a cheater is always a cheater is not always true. I did It, but I would never do it again. The heartache and guilt is not worth it. It is hard to break others hearts and start new relationship with a lie. I changed


You changed. He did not. Now you know. 

Most relationships that start as an affair do not last long. I think only about 3% end up longer term relationships.

Are you divorcing him?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you are just a mismatch with your WH. 

You cheated because you were thunderstruck by love for him and were willing to hurt other people to follow your heart. You were a romantic about it. You still are. You say he is your one and only. This is a soulmate mentality.

He, on the other hand, is a man on the hunt. He is a predator who brings women to ground. If he sees one he likes, he just goes in for the kill. It doesn't matter whether she is already taken. The attraction is there for him, so he does what he 'has to do.' This makes him a serial cheater.

He is cold to you because he has moved on from you in his hunt. You are old prey.

I don't say 'once a cheater, always a cheater.' I say that certain personality types are very predictable. From what you've told us, he will be on the hunt until he's senile. For your part, you would be much happier if you found a match for your own personality type.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> For God's sake, one doesn't have to be perfect in order to recognize ass-holery when they see it. *Get over yourself.
> *
> .


She won't, because she can't.


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## FancyPants (Apr 12, 2018)

Esmeralda said:


> Let me tell you one thing dear posters. I am not looking for your sympathy as you might have thought. I am searching for may be more insightful answers : why happy people cheat as opposite to 'karma' and obvious he cheated on her so he will cheat on you comments. I was aware of this and took the risk. one poster commented: 9 times out of 10 it does not work. Yeah, 9/10 does not. That means one out of 10 does! Yes, I am broken hearted but don't take my vulnerability for weakness. I will never go for affair again for all the destruction it causes but despite the sad end of this one I have no regrets as I loved. I loved. So, if you just irritated by my post please move to other posts.




:banghead:

Your answers indicate exactly what happened and why this marriage is doomed to fail

You feel that all your relationship's problems are caused by external factors, and refuse to see anything either one of you have done as being your fault. When you don't get the answers you want, you blame others. 

Neither one of you cheated because of anyone else. you both did so because it was something you wanted to do. Unless you have both had individual therapy or done a huge amount of soul searching- and your words indicate that you have done no such thing- then cheating is all but guaranteed in your marriage. Your view comes across right away with your " don't judge me". 

If you don't like the advice you receive, that's too bad, as if you actually took the time to really think about it instead of brushing it off because it's not what you want to hear, your marriage or at least your peace of mind, might be salvageable.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

You're with a narcissist. He enjoys being the center of the universe. He seeks out married women who will leave their husbands, children, and families for him. He gets the thrill of homewrecking! Let him go or you will forever live in limbo. Your choice.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 18, 2018)

Esmeralda said:


> I've been on both sides of infidelity, I was the other woman who left her husband for the one who left his wife and after 7 years betrayed me. Before you judge me and say I deserve it make sure you are perfect. We both went through hell to be together. I am 11 younger then him and his affair partner 21 years younger then him. We both swore to cherish each other and be loyal and honest. I was transformed and knew this relationship is the last one. I committed. After he bertrayed me we had extremely emotional times. He said he developed feelings for OW but has strong feelings for me. He was swinging beetwen us but asked me not to leave. I love him deeply and wanted to know if we can fix us. I made a deal with myself, I can only try if I can see I am the one and only. I needed to know what the affair meant to him, I did not worry about the OW much. It was all about him and why he crossed the line. The OW is married and has a child. He told her he never wants to see her. We've been trying and he has been lovely, we booked holliday, he holds my hand says that we are great together, loves sex with me and makes plans for future. But, he does not want to talk about affair, says it makes things worse, just wants to move But, I can't and I said to move on I need to know I am the one in his heart and she is not. I said I need to know if she would be free, or left her husband where he would be. Finally and sadly, 3 days ago after a really nice weekend , cuddling in bed, he suddenly pulled away and said coldly. If the woman was free he would have gone with her...He seemed so genuine in his efforts to repear us and then this. It was like 2 different people. I am sad at his cruelty to lead me on for 5 months and not letting me go before. Did he even love me? How to move on after the double betrayal? Thanking you kindly.


I would like to say thank you to some posters who gave me various feedback and some thoughts are gems and will really help me. This people are not necessarily the ones who tried to understand and be a bit sympathetic to me ( thanks to you too), but the ones who gave harsh critic but from the heart for my own good. Funny, I have never ever used forums before and I understand why. I found there are lots of deeply hurting people here who did not deal with their own life situations and are projecting their pain and disappointments. It is very very noticeable. For that, I will not expand on my story. Life is interesting and painful experience, imagine if we all could love just one person for the entire adult life. Mistakes are made and promises broken. We learn. I wish you all well, be kind, to herself in the first place and then to others. Bitterness inside makes life misserable. So, if someone wants to laugh at some parts of my story, go ahead. What is the goal though? Do you want me upset? No, not in my case. I was just bored reading this. You are still growing...

Ps: my former husband just wished me happy birthday just like he did for Christmas. I always say warm thank you in return. We are still concerned about each other, it is normal, we spent lots of years together. Does he want me back? I don't think so. Do I want him back? Firm No. We remain on good terms. We are not friends but we are kind to each other. I did not loose his respect as he knows and I know I am a good women, with flaws.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 18, 2018)

Answer to Bethebetterman: Some good thoughts here. Honest answer: I chose affair instead of leaving my husband because many years ago I did not have the guts to do it. I would be in terrible hardship , which was scary. Sometimes, people simplify situation. Do they realize that many of us don't own multiple homes and have large incomes? For many, you can't just leave, because you worked on creating the home you have, there is nowhere to go and you want your children to be healthy and not sleep in a mouldy rented room. I can hear voices: Well, you chose to finish the relationship, this is what you get. If you think this, ask yourself honestly: would you really be one like that?
Also, I was not sure if I was missing something major, I was just comfortable. Slowly, the spark goes and we became just companions, not necessarily unhappy ones. Then I get shaken up by attraction to another person and suddenly all the things I had pushed deep inside surface. What I learned is this is critical time, to leave the relationship or save it. One needs real courage to step into the unknown. I did not ask my AP to leave his wife, in fact I tried to stop the affair twice, but was too involved at that stage. He asked me if I'd leave my H and I did. My reason to pursue? Passion. I was deeply loved by a few of my boyfriends and my former husband. I liked it and appreciated it. I loved him too, but without fire running through my veins.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

You're welcome. It's a tough place to expect much help really. Don't worry about whether or not you FEEL LIKE you want to recover with your ex-husband. That's not step one to your repentance. Step one is ending the affair. Then, after repentance, you'll actually probably begin to feel a lot differently about your ex-husband. He is your 'soulmate', you just don't realize it {and can't until you end your affair}.



Esmeralda said:


> One needs real courage to step into the unknown.


So what's the problem with your current affair partner cheating on you? He's just being courageous and following wherever his attractions lead him. Who cares how deeply he loved that chick, as long as he's happy, you should be happy for him.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Esmeralda said:


> I would like to say thank you to some posters who gave me various feedback and some thoughts are gems and will really help me. This people are not necessarily the ones who tried to understand and be a bit sympathetic to me ( thanks to you too), but the ones who gave harsh critic but from the heart for my own good. Funny, I have never ever used forums before and I understand why. I found there are lots of deeply hurting people here who did not deal with their own life situations and are projecting their pain and disappointments. It is very very noticeable. For that, I will not expand on my story. Life is interesting and painful experience, imagine if we all could love just one person for the entire adult life. Mistakes are made and promises broken. We learn. I wish you all well, be kind, to herself in the first place and then to others. Bitterness inside makes life misserable. So, if someone wants to laugh at some parts of my story, go ahead. What is the goal though? Do you want me upset? No, not in my case. I was just bored reading this. You are still growing...
> 
> Ps: my former husband just wished me happy birthday just like he did for Christmas. I always say warm thank you in return. We are still concerned about each other, it is normal, we spent lots of years together. Does he want me back? I don't think so. Do I want him back? Firm No. We remain on good terms. We are not friends but we are kind to each other. I did not loose his respect as he knows and I know I am a good women, with flaws.


My dear, I almost felt sorry for you before your last two posts (?). Now I just don't. 

You want to citizen those here who you think are projecting their hurt on you. OK, I get how you could maybe think that or see that. 

But then, you write the part about your poor husband that you did not love, and how you could not leave because you had no where to go so you had an affair. (And you had an affair to find a jumping off point) 

And your ex H who is still stupid enough to send you birthday messages. I guess you lost interest in him because he loved you so much he turned into a weak man with you. 

What you won't say or don't even understand is that your poor stupid husband still loves you. I guess it really boosts your ego to know that. 

Even with your previous AP/BF cheating on you (big surprise) and leaving you, even with the pain and heartache that you are feeling, you still don't get it. Or maybe people like you just can't empathize enough with the rest of humanity to even begin to understand the pain that you caused your husband. 

Even as you go through the pain yourself, you just cannot understand what you have done to others. 

I truly feel sorry for you. I have no animosity, just pity...


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

BluesPower said:


> My dear, I almost felt sorry for you before your last two posts (?). Now I just don't.
> 
> You want to citizen those here who you think are projecting their hurt on you. OK, I get how you could maybe think that or see that.
> 
> ...


That's what I've been trying to say...If you read closely, her words and between the lines, you will see the issue lays on her shoulders not anyone else.
She says things like "...It's very, very noticeable." as if people here are not trying to help her.
She will not get introspective. She will not find answers.
She's into ego boosting......what kind of personality would that be??

OP a caring person always listens as if the person they are listening to might know something they don't.
You may not like my assessment of your personality, but if you don't even consider the possibility... your future may repeat your past.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

"Before you judge me and say I deserve it make sure you are perfect. "

what a catch you must be.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Esmeralda said:


> I've been on both sides of infidelity, I was the other woman who left her husband for the one who left his wife and after 7 years betrayed me. Before you judge me and say I deserve it make sure you are perfect. We both went through hell to be together. I am 11 younger then him and his affair partner 21 years younger then him. We both swore to cherish each other and be loyal and honest. I was transformed and knew this relationship is the last one. I committed. After he bertrayed me we had extremely emotional times. He said he developed feelings for OW but has strong feelings for me. He was swinging beetwen us but asked me not to leave. I love him deeply and wanted to know if we can fix us. I made a deal with myself, I can only try if I can see I am the one and only. I needed to know what the affair meant to him, I did not worry about the OW much. It was all about him and why he crossed the line. The OW is married and has a child. He told her he never wants to see her. We've been trying and he has been lovely, we booked holliday, he holds my hand says that we are great together, loves sex with me and makes plans for future. But, he does not want to talk about affair, says it makes things worse, just wants to move But, I can't and I said to move on I need to know I am the one in his heart and she is not. I said I need to know if she would be free, or left her husband where he would be. Finally and sadly, 3 days ago after a really nice weekend , cuddling in bed, he suddenly pulled away and said coldly. If the woman was free he would have gone with her...He seemed so genuine in his efforts to repear us and then this. It was like 2 different people. I am sad at his cruelty to lead me on for 5 months and not letting me go before. Did he even love me? How to move on after the double betrayal? Thanking you kindly.



if you love him, wouldnt you want him to be happy? 

let him go be with the other woman.


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## bethebetterman (Apr 5, 2018)

Hi Esmerelda 

Being scared is normal. Very few of us here have the funds to not worry about what a split will do to our lifestyle. The same goes for the BS as for the WW. I was terrified that I would have to fight to see our son and of the financial impact of a divorce but when my wife cheated it was the only choice I felt I had. I don't regret it for a second - we were in the end not compatible and I cant now imagine the miserable existence I would have had if we had stayed together. 

In the end its better to get out and live with the consequences of that than start an affair. As i'm sure you are beginning to understand any man who will have an affair - particularly with another mans wife - lacks personal boundaries. On top of that it will always be in the back of his mind that you cheated on your ex and so the logic goes that you are likely to do it again. it doesn't matter that you have changed and that you know you wouldn't do it again - its in his head. Add those two things together and you will begin to understand why a relationship which starts in an affair will usually end in one. I am truly sorry you are here but don't be under any illusions - the man you left your husband for does not exist.

Don't chase after him - do the 180 - and when you are ready find someone new. If you have genuinely learned from your experience you will now understand that its either worth the work or it isn't. When the relationship feels like its not worth the work its time to leave. No cheating, no lies - just honesty. Don't let things that don't matter in the long term convince you to have another affair. You can make anywhere into a home - its time and your self respect that you can never really get back.

Good luck


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> Thank you. You are right. B*ut saying once a cheater is always a cheater is not always true. *I did It, but I would never do it again. The heartache and guilt is not worth it. It is hard to break others hearts and start new relationship with a lie. I changed


I believe it is, takes a certain mindset to be a cheater some do it frequently and actively seek out potential affairs, others are laid back and will just take advantage of any opportunity that is presented to them but the mindset it the same either way, you have to be selfish person, I personally have never cheated on anyone and never would if you care about someone this is the worst for of betrayal.


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## FancyPants (Apr 12, 2018)

MovingForward said:


> I believe it is, takes a certain mindset to be a cheater some do it frequently and actively seek out potential affairs, others are laid back and will just take advantage of any opportunity that is presented to them but the mindset it the same either way, you have to be selfish person, I personally have never cheated on anyone and never would if you care about someone this is the worst for of betrayal.


That's the thing with so many who cheat. they see it all as being something they couldn't help, it was because of something outside of them that they had no control over. 

Until someone sees that this attitude divests them of control over their life, they will continue to be swept along. 

With the op's husband, he either was looking for some external fun, or he has zero control over his own actions and no sense of boundaries. This is ( at the very least) his second affair, and there may well be more. This does
not bode well for him being able to stay in a long term, committed relationship.


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

Esmeralda said:


> Before you judge me and say I deserve it make sure you are perfect.


Who is perfect? So no one can judge you? There are real "judges" who must judge in criminal and civil actions. Like divorces. When you were divorced, did you tell the judge, "before you judge me ... make sure you are perfect"?



Esmeralda said:


> We both swore to cherish each other and be loyal and honest.


Swore to cherish each other? Like a marriage vow? Deeper than that? Your marriages didn't survive, why be confused about this one?



Esmeralda said:


> I was transformed and knew this relationship is the last one.


Didn't you feel the same in your first marriage? Or him in his (first?) marriage?



Esmeralda said:


> It was all about him and why he crossed the line.


So I guess this is why you're here. Why did he cross the line in a "happy" relationship? Wasn't your first marriage relatively "happy" until you found him, and then your "missing needs" surfaced? Which, for you, was "fire" and "passion." Maybe his needs for "variety" and "fresh" was surfaced in him when other woman came knocking.



Esmeralda said:


> he does not want to talk about affair, says it makes things worse, just wants to move But, I can't ... I am sad at his cruelty


Maybe he feels that if you are not perfect, you have no reason to judge him. Make sure you are perfect before you judge him, before you call him cruel. Maybe he was not on both sides of infidelity like you, so he just doesn't have the breadth of experience you have.



Esmeralda said:


> He seemed so genuine in his efforts to repear us and then this. It was like 2 different people.


Maybe he just wasn't ready to go 5 months ago. Like you, in your marriage, when you stayed and affaired because you were not just ready. Maybe he would have stayed longer and cheated you longer, but you pushed him too far. If that is true, maybe that's better for you, 5 months of cruelty making believe he's happy is worse than 12 months or 24 months. How long did you stay in your affair until you felt safe to leave your marriage?

Also, maybe some day you will send him birthday wishes. And he will say, see, I still respect her, and we think warmly of each other. It could happen, even if it doesn't happen 9 times out of 10, it does happen 1 time out of 10. At least you loved. Not like some of the bitter posters here.



Esmeralda said:


> Did he even love me?


I think he loved you. The same you loved your husband, the same he loved his wife. When I say the "same," I don't mean "exactly equals." Maybe he loved you 90 percent and he loved his former wife 85 percent. What was the difference of how much you loved your husband at the time of your marriage vs. the time you committed to him? Can you measure it, more for one, less for the other, at the same time in the relationship?



Esmeralda said:


> How to move on after the double betrayal?


Time heals. Staying busy. I think my mindset, and how I look at this situation, is very different than yours. From my point of view, you sound just like the betrayed spouses posting here, saying, "How could he/she do this to me? We just cuddled. We were HAPPY!!" Um, no. Obviously not. This was one-sided, because of deception on the other side.

So read the threads here of the betrayed, especially the wives. Men and women frequently have some differences on both sides of infidelity and betrayal. You don't seem much different than most coming here for the first time. The main difference is you are more sympathetic to the cheating, because you've done it yourself. While apparently many of the others are more "judgeful" about the cheating, because they've never done it.


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