# What do men really think of women?



## Laurae1967

I've heard it said that men are in "awe" of women, and that women have such power over men. 

What do men think of women? I'm curious to hear the good, the bad and the ugly.


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## IanIronwood

Laurae1967 said:


> I've heard it said that men are in "awe" of women, and that women have such power over men.
> 
> What do men think of women? I'm curious to hear the good, the bad and the ugly.


Sweetie, spare yourself. You probably don't want to open that door. There are lamentably few women who want to understand men, and even fewer who are prepared for how men really view women (hint: it didn't come out of _Love's Savage Rash_, or any other romance novel). 

It's not that we don't love you -- we do -- but y'all drive us absolutely crazy. In other words, knowing "what men think of women" isn't going to work for you until you first understand "how men think of anything", or, more simply, "how men think."


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## Laurae1967

Awww, darlin'. I'm just a widdle girl and my teeny brain can't process all that much information.

:lol:

Seriously, I asked because I'm interested. I think I can handle the information, but I appreciate you trying to protect my delicate female sensibilities. Love's Savage Rash is one of my favorite romance novels. How did you know?


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## IanIronwood

Laurae1967 said:


> Awww, darlin'. I'm just a widdle girl and my teeny brain can't process all that much information.
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Seriously, I asked because I'm interested. I think I can handle the information, but I appreciate you trying to protect my delicate female sensibilities. Love's Savage Rash is one of my favorite romance novels. How did you know?


(*sigh*)

It's not that I don't think you have the capacity or the intelligence. But I also don't think you're going to "get" how men think, not without a fair amount of study. 

For example, do you realize that to men (most men, and usually the most desirable and successful men most of all) sex as a part of a relationship is as strong a need in them as clean clothes are to a woman?

Seriously. It took my wife a couple of years to get that part. Men need sex. Men want sex. Women want sex. But men NEED sex. Even if it's just with ourselves, it pervades every aspect of our lives and fills our day. On your horniest day, you still didn't feel the same kind of unrelenting buzz in the back of your head that nearly every man you've ever met has going on ALL THE TIME.

You see, men get access to their emotional feelings through the agency of sex, as well as their personal affirmations, self-esteem, self-confidence, self . . . well, everything. Our goals and aspirations are bounded by it, our brains are obsessed by it, and how something will help or hurt our chances of sex is probably one of the top three factors in decision-making we have. And perhaps the only consistent one.

You may think I'm joking or exaggerating or being, well, a dude when I say all of this, but unless you are willing to accept that one point as an axiom in context of how men view women, nothing else is going to make sense.

And that's a long, long way from how women view sex.

You with me so far?


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## that_girl

I don't care what men think of me. lol I just care what my husband thinks of me 

I know how men think lollll I mostly think the same way. Dirrrrty.


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## nice777guy

I must admit, I'm wondering where you heard that we look at you in "awe"...?

I can find beauty in most women. In general, they carry a sensitivity to things that men don't always have. And there is obviously a strong bond between mother and child that men can't truly understand.

But not all women are great mothers. Some women are beautiful - until they open their mouths. Other women - you don't see the beauty until they open their mouths. And not all women are sensitive and caring.

After 15 decent years of marriage and 2 really lousy ones, its hard today to see the physical beauty in my wife, even though her looks have not changed all that much. She no longer seems sensitive and caring - and some days I swear she's not really all that committed to our kids.

So - there you go...


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## that_girl

Sometimes we're not all that committed to our kids :lol: Sometimes we don't want to share our food (well, I never share food). Sometimes we like our granny panties and our sweats LOLLL


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## that_girl

My husband thinks about 3 things.

Food, Sex and racing. Not really in any particular order.


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## that_girl

IanIronwood said:


> (*sigh*)
> 
> It's not that I don't think you have the capacity or the intelligence. But I also don't think you're going to "get" how men think, not without a fair amount of study.
> 
> For example, do you realize that to men (most men, and usually the most desirable and successful men most of all) sex as a part of a relationship is as strong a need in them as clean clothes are to a woman?
> 
> Seriously. It took my wife a couple of years to get that part. Men need sex. Men want sex. Women want sex. But men NEED sex. Even if it's just with ourselves, it pervades every aspect of our lives and fills our day. On your horniest day, you still didn't feel the same kind of unrelenting buzz in the back of your head that nearly every man you've ever met has going on ALL THE TIME.
> 
> You see, men get access to their emotional feelings through the agency of sex, as well as their personal affirmations, self-esteem, self-confidence, self . . . well, everything. Our goals and aspirations are bounded by it, our brains are obsessed by it, and how something will help or hurt our chances of sex is probably one of the top three factors in decision-making we have. And perhaps the only consistent one.
> 
> You may think I'm joking or exaggerating or being, well, a dude when I say all of this, but unless you are willing to accept that one point as an axiom in context of how men view women, nothing else is going to make sense.
> 
> And that's a long, long way from how women view sex.
> 
> You with me so far?


I need sex too. Like, I NEED IT. After a week without it, I start to get blue-vag.


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## Laurae1967

Yes, I do understand that sex is a strong need for most men. It's a strong need for many women, too (myself included). My husband is not how you describe, however. I could have sex every day, or even multiple times a day, but my husband is happy with once a week. Sleep is more his NEED.

So when you make a decision about anything, sex is always in there? When you take a job, for example, sex is partly driving that decision (I can have access to more sex if I take this job or I will be viewed as more powerful, which is sexy type of thing? I don't think women think that way. 

I think you may underestimate women's sexuality. For example, at the gym, I see certain men working out and imagine how they would be sexually, or envision having sex with them in vivid detail. I notice aspects of their physicality, their breathing, movements, etc. in a sexual way. Of course, it doesn't help that I'm reading Loves Savage Rash while I'm riding the bike (yes, pun intended).


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## nice777guy

that_girl said:


> My husband thinks about 3 things.
> 
> Food, Sex and racing. Not really in any particular order.


Just hope he never tries all three at once. THAT could be dangerous.

Men do generally have a lot of naughty thoughts. And I would say that we check out most women we pass by on at least some physical level.


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## IanIronwood

nice777guy said:


> I must admit, I'm wondering where you heard that we look at you in "awe"...?
> 
> I can find beauty in most women. In general, they carry a sensitivity to things that men don't always have. And there is obviously a strong bond between mother and child that men can't truly understand.
> 
> But not all women are great mothers. Some women are beautiful - until they open their mouths. Other women - you don't see the beauty until they open their mouths. And not all women are sensitive and caring.
> 
> After 15 decent years of marriage and 2 really lousy ones, its hard today to see the physical beauty in my wife, even though her looks have not changed all that much. She no longer seems sensitive and caring - and some days I swear she's not really all that committed to our kids.
> 
> So - there you go...


The whole "awe" thing is a blue-pill, pedestal-building meme. Once you get past that awe, you can start treating them like fallible human beings again. Sure, reproduction is nifty and amazing, but that's biology, not a personal triumph of character.


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## Laurae1967

Yes, I have heard that somehow men can be in awe of women. I'm not sure if that's true. I do feel that men can be easily manipulated by women if the woman is attractive and wants to be manipulative. I suppose the same is true for men.

I think women do hold more power when it comes to sex. If an average-looking woman wants to get laid, she can go into almost any bar and leave with someone. I can't say the same thing for a man.

I'm off on a tangent.

I think each gender finds the mystery of the opposite sex alluring.


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## nice777guy

Laurae1967 said:


> Yes, I have heard that somehow men can be in awe of women. I'm not sure if that's true. I do feel that men can be easily manipulated by women if the woman is attractive and wants to be manipulative. I suppose the same is true for men.
> 
> I think women do hold more power when it comes to sex. If an average-looking woman wants to get laid, she can go into almost any bar and leave with someone. I can't say the same thing for a man.
> 
> I'm off on a tangent.
> 
> I think each gender finds the mystery of the opposite sex alluring.


There is a lot of truth to this.

Men can be hypnotized by a woman's charm and beauty - just not sure that it's "awe."

Again though - its all generalization.


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## AFEH

Laurae1967 said:


> I've heard it said that men are in "awe" of women, and that women have such power over men.
> 
> What do men think of women? I'm curious to hear the good, the bad and the ugly.


Depends on the woman.


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## IanIronwood

Laurae1967 said:


> Yes, I do understand that sex is a strong need for most men. It's a strong need for many women, too (myself included).


Perhaps. But male sex drives are highly active, and female sex drives are highly passive, in aggregate. There are plenty of individual exceptions, perhaps yourself included, but in general men go seeking sex while women accept sex after being sought. An important, if subtle difference. And "strong need" is understating the Buzz by an order of magnitude, at least. If you're hungry, you have a "strong need" to eat. If you are suffocating, you have an essential requirement to breathe. The Buzz is more like the latter than the former.



Laurae1967 said:


> My husband is not how you describe, however. I could have sex every day, or even multiple times a day, but my husband is happy with once a week. Sleep is more his NEED.


Perhaps he, too, is an exception. But don't have sex with him for a couple of months and watch what happens. It's not pretty. He'll start missing sleep to have sex, I bet you. Some men are satisfied with a lower output -- good for them. But ask your husband point-blank tonight whether he feels he's getting enough sex or the kind of sex he likes. If he can look you in the eye and say "Yes, definitely!" without any equivication, then congratulate yourself: you made it into the tippy-top one-percent of wives.



Laurae1967 said:


> So when you make a decision about anything, sex is always in there? When you take a job, for example, sex is partly driving that decision (I can have access to more sex if I take this job or I will be viewed as more powerful, which is sexy type of thing?


Yes, exactly. Only it goes beyond even that. We will change our major in college for sex, we will screw over our best friends for sex, we will (many of us) piss off our MOM if it means we'll get laid, we will take three buses across town after working a double shift for even the _suggestion_ of sex -- and do it EVERY DAY for six months, if we have to. The unreasonable becomes reasonable. when sex is involved. 

Sure, there are guys who aren't that driven by sex. They tend not to do well in life unless their passion is stamp-collecting.



Laurae1967 said:


> I don't think women think that way.


No, no they don't. Women tend to think about things in terms of security -- not necessarily stocks, bonds and cash, but emotional and physical security, as well as financial security. Most women don't feel good about having sex unless they feel completely secure with their lives and can relax enough to do so. Hormone fluctuations range their immediate need or desire for sex all over the place, thanks to ovulation and menstruation. And a woman would rarely -- if ever -- change a job or move across the country or do something incredibly stupid solely on the basis of their ability to get sex . . . because women have a far, far easier time getting sex than men do. And that's one of the big differences that causes the big cross-gender disconnect. Y'all really don't think that way, and you can't understand how WE could think that way. But we do.



Laurae1967 said:


> I think you may underestimate women's sexuality. For example, at the gym, I see certain men working out and imagine how they would be sexually, or envision having sex with them in vivid detail. I notice aspects of their physicality, their breathing, movements, etc. in a sexual way. Of course, it doesn't help that I'm reading Loves Savage Rash while I'm riding the bike (yes, pun intended).


I actually wasn't joking (although the book in question, a spoof on romance novels, does actually exist). I don't underestimate women's sexuality -- I've spent the better part of 25 years studying every aspect of female sexuality and female sexual psychology. While you may know your own individual sexuality to a fault, I probably know more about female sexuality, and its strengths and weaknesses, than most people (and certainly most dudes). 

Your quiet lusting at the gym is cute, and almost male in it's presentation, but it's also a general exception to female sexual psychology. It's not that women don't get turned on by hunky men -- but that is rarely enough to make them take the step to initiate a sexual encounter with them. 

Women's sex lives are bounded by their reproductive and social lives. Women tend to express their sexuality in groups, either actual groups (your girlfriends, BFFs, sisters and mother, co-workers, etc.) or in unofficial groups, say romance novel readers, soap opera watchers, metaphysical romance readers, and reality show viewers. Women see sex in terms of relationships that extend beyond the physical first. Men usually look at relationships in terms of the physical first (even if it's in the abstract) and in a social context much further down the list. 

Women express their sexuality a lot more subtly than men do and almost invariably see it within a social context. A hunky dude is awesome to look at, in other words, and it might get you all dewy, but unless you know his complete social context (who he is, what does he do, where does he work) you are unlikely to do much about it. Women need social context in their sex lives like men need boobies.

Case in point: men will sit around occasionally and discuss the anatomical merits of a particular celebrity or neighbor (who none of them are actually sleeping with) with such frankness as to be labelled crude and shallow by most women. Yet these same women don't think twice about sitting around a computer and discussing the potential merits of a friend's potential computer date with an appalling amount of prejudice and undisguised horror if he doesn't meet her Prince Charming list. 

Women express their observational sexuality through qualifying a potential mate by social class and earning potential far more than whether he's got washboard abs and a tight butt. Sure, you like the abs and the butt . . . but would you go out on a date on that basis, if you knew the dude was unemployed, broke, and in debt? Or had a criminal record for tax evasion?

A dude wouldn't have any problem screwing a woman who had all of those things. As long as she was hot and sexually available. Which is why we tend to make some glaring mistakes in our relationships that we end up paying for. 

That make sense?


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## Laurae1967

I agree it is all generalization. It's fun to examine it, though. (Slow day at work...can you tell?)

I read an article recently that promoted women using their attractiveness unabashedly to get ahead in the working world. The author said that physical beauty is similar to having a high IQ or a beautiful singing voice - a gift of genetics, I guess. It was certainly thought-provoking.

I think on some level men can be at the mercy of a beautiful woman. Sometimes maybe that don't realize it or refuse to acknowledge it. I think most men will chafe at this idea, but I think it has some validity. I suspect my looks have been an advantage in the workplace and I've probably , whether consciously or unconsciously, "worked" that angle, but not in any kind of nefarious way.


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## okeydokie

i thought you wanted to know what men think about women? was this so you could refute the feedback with what women think about men?

oh, yeah, so i think most women are argumentative and stubborn


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## Therealbrighteyes

What was the title of this post again?


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## IanIronwood

Laurae1967 said:


> I agree it is all generalization. It's fun to examine it, though. (Slow day at work...can you tell?)
> 
> I read an article recently that promoted women using their attractiveness unabashedly to get ahead in the working world. The author said that physical beauty is similar to having a high IQ or a beautiful singing voice - a gift of genetics, I guess. It was certainly thought-provoking.
> 
> I think on some level men can be at the mercy of a beautiful woman. Sometimes maybe that don't realize it or refuse to acknowledge it. I think most men will chafe at this idea, but I think it has some validity. I suspect my looks have been an advantage in the workplace and I've probably , whether consciously or unconsciously, "worked" that angle, but not in any kind of nefarious way.


So you say . . . 


Oh, I agree, a beautiful woman can enthrall a man even if he knows she's unobtainable. I'm lucky -- I'm happily married and I work in porn watching naked women have sex all day. When a beautiful woman tries to use her beauty against me or to manipulate me, I usually look her up and down and say, "honey, I objectify women for a living and honestly? You just don't have what it takes to sway me." Needless to say, that pisses off a lot of pretty women.

I don't mind. I married the Nerdy Chick who loves sex. A blonde bombshell with big boobs, an incredible aroma, and perfect features has no power over me. I know what's behind the curtain. It takes a lot to impress me.


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## Laurae1967

My husband is thrilled with our sex life. I am willing to try just about anything with enthusiasm and love to give and receive pleasure in many different ways. I sometimes wonder if this is intimidating to him. Since we only have sex once a week, it is always super hot and intense and I finally convinced my husband to shave so I could have better access to his goods. Fun! But again, guys say they wish for a lady on the street and a freak in the bed, but in practice, I wonder if that's totally true. Maybe guys only want what they can't have. When they have it, maybe it loses it's strong pull?

I do agree with much of what you wrote about women's sexuality having a social context when it comes to getting down to sleeping with them. But in the fantasy realm, I can get quite "dewy" looking at an unemployed man with a good bone structure and lean body as easily (and perhaps moreso) than handsome CEO in his spandex. 

To women's credit, I think we are more forgiving of men's physical imperfections. Women, I think, have more capacity to grow to find a man attractive based on his personality and I don't think it works in reverse.

Conversely, I think men are more forgiving of women's emotional imperfections (if she is attractive) so there you go.


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## Laurae1967

Okeydokie - that was funny. Just BSing around on a slow day....


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## that_girl

> Perhaps. But male sex drives are highly active, and female sex drives are highly passive, in aggregate.


What garbage is this? Is this proof to this? I must be a man in a woman's body...

In my experience, "sexually passive" women are such because they simply don't like sex with their present partner.


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## Trenton

"Why do people say 'Grow some balls?' Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really wanna get tough grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!" -Betty White

Random quote of the day.


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## Conrad

Trenton said:


> "Why do people say 'Grow some balls?' Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really wanna get tough grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!" -Betty White
> 
> Random quote of the day.


Yes, but they give as good as they get.


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## Trenton

Conrad said:


> Yes, but they give as good as they get.


I'm going to talk to men's balls from now on as that's where their sensitive side is so don't talk to me unless it's your balls talking.


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## Conrad

They're never far away.



Trenton said:


> I'm going to talk to men's balls from now on as that's where their sensitive side is so don't talk to me unless it's your balls talking.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Conrad said:


> They're never far away.


Depends on the guy I guess. Anybody google Cisco Adler?


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## Trenton

Conrad said:


> They're never far away.


I can't debate that.


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## nice777guy

FGO(UIJS( sseiufs)} Fss[dio f=8]w I#lsmadfs[)S)d Oid jhSioksmdlfS










Never far away - but TERRIBLE on a keyboard!!!


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## Amplexor

Trenton said:


> I'm going to talk to men's balls from now on as that's where their sensitive side is so don't talk to me unless it's your balls talking.


OK, but just remember you need to speak up when it gets cold. They get hard of hearing for some reason.


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## Trying2figureitout

I think women are mostly responsible for the high divorce rate by not giving up sex enough in a marriage... honest truth.

I used to not think that way... but am convinced now.


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## nice777guy

Trenton said:


> I'm going to talk to men's balls from now on as that's where their sensitive side is so don't talk to me unless it's your balls talking.


Does this mean we guys can stop pretending to look at your eyes when we talk?


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## Trenton

nice777guy said:


> FGO(UIJS( sseiufs)} Fss[dio f=8]w I#lsmadfs[)S)d Oid jhSioksmdlfS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never far away - but TERRIBLE on a keyboard!!!


:rofl:


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## Trenton

Amplexor said:


> OK, but just remember you need to speak up when it gets cold. They get hard of hearing for some reason.


Yes but that's just because they are so sensitive. It makes them endearing!


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## Trenton

Trying2figureitout said:


> I think women are mostly responsible for the high divorce rate by not giving up sex enough in a marriage... honest truth.
> 
> I used to not think that way... but am convinced now.


Which came first...the chicken or the egg?

The chicken! Scientists reportedly crack chicken-or-egg riddle - Technology & science - Science - msnbc.com


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## nice777guy

Trenton said:


> Which came first...the chicken or the egg?


Don't try to change the subject...


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## nice777guy

FS)DIJ =S*D+S SDU SD=( E(U D(S}DJKLi0rj]gldkfj g[a= SD{OFJ Sd)U+(Uj [


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## Trenton

nice777guy said:


> Don't try to change the subject...


Picturing balls was starting to get troublesome to my psyche. Talking to everyone's balls was even more troublesome. I think I just developed a phobia.


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## Trenton

Niceguy, your balls have a lot to say. I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing.


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## nice777guy

Trenton said:


> Niceguy, your balls have a lot to say. I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing.


My co-workers don't seem to appreciate it.


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## nice777guy

Trenton said:


> Picturing balls was starting to get troublesome to my psyche. Talking to everyone's balls was even more troublesome. I think I just developed a phobia.


:rofl:


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## YupItsMe

This thread has more bull**** than any other I have read recently so I will rip it to shreds for your reading pleasure. 

1. Starting with the original post. I cringe when I hear "I heard..." OK Ill bite. You heard this from who? IQ was? Age was? Marital status was? Level of success was? Agenda was? Level of maturity was? Level of physical fitness was? Level of attractiveness was? Level of wealth was? 

2. Men are in awe of women? Not this one nor are any of the well adjusted male adults I socialize with. Is it not easy to run into some loser saying something beyond ridiculous? Is it not equally easy to find some panty sniffer willing say nearly anything to try to manipulate an opportunity to get a whiff? 

3. There are plenty of men that dont follow their **** around like some pathetic animal in heat. Plenty do but they tend to be immature, stupid, lacking character, or narcissistic. 

4. I find hot females attempting to manipulate mature successful men silly, offensive and pathetic. It doesnt work and its a total waste of my valuable time helping her hotness process that reality so we can be serious. 

5. Id estimate well over 50% of extremely hot women are inadequate in many other ways since they have not had the opportunity to develop other ways beyond their looks of getting somewhere. Being hot stunts your growth in most other areas. This can hardly be something someone with a half a lick of good sense and judgement would be in "awe" of

6. Stating we this, we that, as if a spokesman for an entire gender is beyond ignorant. Hence the several legitimate complaints about absurd overgeneralizing. 

7. It is equally ridiculous for a man to be telling a woman about women with the confidence of a rocket scientist describing his new rocket. How the hell would he know?

There is more but Im bored with this thread. Its too easy to beat the **** out of it


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## Runs like Dog

What do men really think?

We think you're complete dipsh^ts for endlessly asking that stupid-ass question. That's what. 

Jesus Christ if women magically ran out of things to worry and or complain about.....they'd worry and complain about THAT.


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## Stonewall

They are the most intriguing creatures. I wouldn't say they hold power over me but I am awestruck by the lengths they go to look good. I watch my wife sometimes and think wow all the time she puts into makeup and so many other little things that she does to look just right. 

I don't many men that would even iron their clothes much less all that. 

I look at how much work she puts into to taking care of me and others. She really is awe inspiring.


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## Duke

that_girl said:


> My husband thinks about 3 things.
> 
> Food, Sex and racing. Not really in any particular order.


Hey, that's me! Except I think about beer too.


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## nice777guy

YupItsMe said:


> This thread has more bull**** than any other I have read recently so I will rip it to shreds for your reading pleasure.
> 
> 1. Starting with the original post. I cringe when I hear "I heard..." OK Ill bite. You heard this from who? IQ was? Age was? Marital status was? Level of success was? Agenda was? Level of maturity was? Level of physical fitness was? Level of attractiveness was? Level of wealth was?


Reasonable question. I took it as meaning hearsay - or some general common knowledge. Not sure it was a literal statement. 



> 2. Men are in awe of women? Not this one nor are any of the well adjusted male adults I socialize with. Is it not easy to run into some loser saying something beyond ridiculous? Is it not equally easy to find some panty sniffer willing say nearly anything to try to manipulate an opportunity to get a whiff?


I also thought this almost sounded like a "line" someone would use. But again - not sure it was literal.



> 3. There are plenty of men that dont follow their **** around like some pathetic animal in heat. Plenty do but they tend to be immature, stupid, lacking character, or narcissistic.


All of us can be mature and immature at different moments. We all do stupid things at times. Our choices - at times - can indicate a lack of character.

But to be honest - I'm not sure any of this is truly male / female stuff. From what I've read on this site - both sexes run the spectrum on stupidity, maturity and character. And both sexes - at times - can be lead by their sex drive.



> 4. I find hot females attempting to manipulate mature successful men silly, offensive and pathetic. It doesnt work and its a total waste of my valuable time helping her hotness process that reality so we can be serious.


I actually think this works more often than it should! I think men can lose focus and be thrown off-kilter by a really beautiful woman who is paying the right kind of attention to them. Not all of us - not all the time. Not sure how to measure it (poll?) - but I believe women can do this in a way that men can't.



> 5. Id estimate well over 50% of extremely hot women are inadequate in many other ways since they have not had the opportunity to develop other ways beyond their looks of getting somewhere. Being hot stunts your growth in most other areas. This can hardly be something someone with a half a lick of good sense and judgement would be in "awe" of


Intelligence has little to do with beauty. Some women may learn to lean on their looks - but those days are numbered. Alimony isn't what it used to be and most families now rely on two incomes. Rich Sugar Daddy's are a bit harder to find.



> 6. Stating we this, we that, as if a spokesman for an entire gender is beyond ignorant. Hence the several legitimate complaints about absurd overgeneralizing.


Not sure anyone said they were being a spokesperson for their gender.



> 7. It is equally ridiculous for a man to be telling a woman about women with the confidence of a rocket scientist describing his new rocket. How the hell would he know?


We all have some insights into the opposite sex. It did seem a bit absurd that women starting throwing their opinions out - but the original post didn't seem to be too serious. At least not to most of us.



> There is more but Im bored with this thread. Its too easy to beat the **** out of it


Yes - easy to beat up on some of the lighter threads. So why bother? If you were above this conversation, why lower yourself?

Thanks for sharing!


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## that_girl

Duke said:


> Hey, that's me! Except I think about beer too.


forgot beer!


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## nice777guy

that_girl said:


> forgot beer!


Figured beer was just "implied"! Duh!


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## Nikki1023

Runs like Dog said:


> What do men really think?
> 
> We think you're complete dipsh^ts for endlessly asking that stupid-ass question. That's what.
> 
> Jesus Christ if women magically ran out of things to worry and or complain about.....they'd worry and complain about THAT.


:rofl: hysterical.


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## RandomDude

Men are individuals, just like women, and I've met my fair share of women who have rather "manly" traits. Nothing is as simple as black and white is it? Heh


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## BigBadWolf

Laurae1967 said:


> I've heard it said that men are in "awe" of women, and that women have such power over men.
> 
> What do men think of women? I'm curious to hear the good, the bad and the ugly.


Lord Chesterfield, letter to his son, 1748:



> By: Lord Chesterfield
> London
> September 5, O.S. 1748.
> “As women are a considerable, or at least a pretty numerous part of company; and as their
> suffrages go a great way toward establishing a man’s character in the fashionable part of the
> world (which is of great importance to the fortune and figure he proposes to make in it), it
> is necessary to please them.
> I will therefore, upon this subject, let you into certain Arcana that will be very useful for
> you to know, but which you must, with the utmost care, conceal and never seem to know.
> 
> Women, then, are only children of a larger growth; they have an entertaining tattle, and sometimes
> wit; but for solid reasoning, good sense, I never knew in my life one that had it, or who
> reasoned or acted consequentially for four-and-twenty hours together. Some little passion or
> humor always breaks upon their best resolutions. Their beauty neglected or controverted,
> their age increased, or their supposed understandings depreciated, instantly kindles their
> little passions, and overturns any system of consequential conduct, that in their most
> reasonable moments they might have been capable of forming.
> 
> A man of sense only trifles with them, plays with them, humors and flatters them, as he does
> with a sprightly forward child; but he neither consults them about, nor trusts them with
> serious matters; though he often makes them believe that he does both; which is the thing in
> the world that they are proud of; for they love mightily to be dabbling in business (which by
> the way they always spoil); and being justly distrustful that men in general look upon them
> in a trifling light, they almost adore that man who talks more seriously to them, and who
> seems to consult and trust them; I say, who seems; for weak men really do, but wise ones only
> seem to do it.


Most men, in my experience, are somewhere between Lord Chesterfield's sentiments and "awe".


----------



## Conrad

Wolf,

I wonder what Deejo thinks of that?


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Chesterfield died of vd and who cares what random men think of women. Worry about what you think of yourself.


----------



## nice777guy

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Chesterfield died of vd and who cares what random men think of women. Worry about what you think of yourself.


Also, would you agree (BBW, Conrad, others...) that Chesterfield lived in a different time altogether. Women weren't viewed as equals - so they weren't encouraged to become educated - which just reinforced their lack of "solid reasoning, good sense."

Still - not in awe. At least not of women in general.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

nice777guy said:


> Also, would you agree (BBW, Conrad, others...) that Chesterfield lived in a different time altogether. Women weren't viewed as equals - so they weren't encouraged to become educated - which just reinforced their lack of "solid reasoning, good sense."
> 
> Still - not in awe. At least not of women in general.


Exactly. Women were not equals and therefore viewed with an element of disdain.

Again, worry about what you think of yourself. Not what some quote from 150 years ago thinks of you. Lordy.


----------



## Lon

This is a loaded question because there are many types of men... even generalizing against what appears to be a "normal", typical guy is probably impossible. As a nice guy I am truly intimidated by an attractive (ie mostly looks) woman, it is my bane because as a niceguy I can't seem to ever get what I want. There have been times I look at the really hot women as mystical superbeings way beyond me... but in reality using logic I know that they are flawed and atleast as insecure as anyone else. I can't say what the pickup artists thinks of women, nor any other guy that doesn't fit into my model of existence, so there is no way to ever get a unanimous consensus on this.


----------



## Conrad

NG,

You still give me a chuckle at least every few days.

I think about your witness about someone who thinks of "complaining" as foreplay.

I know it wasn't funny for you.

But, it put me in stitches.

I'm certain Chesterfield would agree.




nice777guy said:


> Also, would you agree (BBW, Conrad, others...) that Chesterfield lived in a different time altogether. Women weren't viewed as equals - so they weren't encouraged to become educated - which just reinforced their lack of "solid reasoning, good sense."
> 
> Still - not in awe. At least not of women in general.


----------



## nice777guy

Conrad said:


> NG,
> 
> You still give me a chuckle at least every few days.
> 
> I think about your witness about someone who thinks of "complaining" as foreplay.
> 
> I know it wasn't funny for you.
> 
> But, it put me in stitches.
> 
> I'm certain Chesterfield would agree.


Conrad - glad to entertain. Its a gift and a curse - and most days I happily embrace it.

So - is it safe to assume that Conrad agrees with Chesterfield, who now - although dead - would surely agree with NG?

Or - lets simplify it and be plain and direct:
Does Conrad agree that education played a role in women being less than equal back in Chesterfield's day?


----------



## Conrad

No doubt.

And, that's not only because I consider my wife to be very smart.

Yet, some of his observations ring true today also.

It's just those differences again... entertaining as they are.




nice777guy said:


> Conrad - glad to entertain. Its a gift and a curse - and most days I happily embrace it.
> 
> So - is it safe to assume that Conrad agrees with Chesterfield, who now - although dead - would surely agree with NG?
> 
> Or - lets simplify it and be plain and direct:
> Does Conrad agree that education played a role in women being less than equal back in Chesterfield's day?


----------



## IanIronwood

Laurae1967 said:


> But again, guys say they wish for a lady on the street and a freak in the bed, but in practice, I wonder if that's totally true. Maybe guys only want what they can't have. When they have it, maybe it loses it's strong pull?


There are plenty of dudes out there who are so hung up on the hunt they can't ever leave. But I think the "unobtainable" factor is actually stronger on a woman than a man. While men can openly lust after a beautiful woman while acknowledging that she's totally out of his class and being fine with that, women get weird when they find an attractive man who is unobtainable -- or at least off-limits. I don't wear a wedding ring anymore, because when I did I got hit on four times as much, and at least twice as aggressively as I ever did when I was single. A woman sees a man who is attached and "off limits" not as a challenge, like a typical male "playa" would, but as an opportunity to poach something someone else values. There is something about a "taken" man that can get a woman going in the worst way. Whereas a dude who sees a girl who clearly has a boyfriend is going to be a lot less ambitious about splitting her off, especially if that boyfriend out-ranks him in status or ass-kicking ability.

I think a far more telling issue to most guys isn't wanting what they can't have as much as novelty. Novelty is highly important to a man, and I think that leads a dude to stray as much as anything else.



Laurae1967 said:


> I do agree with much of what you wrote about women's sexuality having a social context when it comes to getting down to sleeping with them. But in the fantasy realm, I can get quite "dewy" looking at an unemployed man with a good bone structure and lean body as easily (and perhaps moreso) than handsome CEO in his spandex.


Sure, the raw appeal of an alpha dude, bereft of any identifying markers, is pretty apparent. But the physical appeal, while sexual, is far less _motivating _for a woman than social rank and resource ability. Which is why so many trophy wives marry well and then hump the pool boy. Upon reaching a comfortable level of security, they feel comfortable indulging a more sensual, less survival-oriented mating strategy. Especially in community property states.

But plenty of tests have shown that women up-rate a dude's appearance and attractiveness if he's standing in front of a $120,000 Italian sportscar, for instance. One study I saw showed the same man in more or less the same clothes standing on the deck of a yacht, and then standing on the deck of a fishing trawler. The Fisherman was ranked over 25% less-attractive than the Yachtsman. Those things matter to women more than I think they're willing to admit.




Laurae1967 said:


> To women's credit, I think we are more forgiving of men's physical imperfections. Women, I think, have more capacity to grow to find a man attractive based on his personality and I don't think it works in reverse.


Yes, yes you are. While physical attractiveness is helpful, it's at best a good introduction for a straight dude (gay dudes have much, much more exacting standards), not a dealmaker. Whereas a gorgeous woman will never have to buy her own drinks or possibly her own car, as long as she can stay gorgeous. 

That doesn't make women morally better people than men. We just have different mating standards. Women appreciate a good-looking guy, but if a dude is 5'4" and balding but has a $1.4 million house, he's gonna be looking pretty darn good to most women. Heck, the most macho dude I know (with the most consistently hottest girlfriends) was 350lbs., smoked four packs a day, and drove a crappy pick-up truck and lived in a trailer. But he had women crawling all over him because he was a hard-core alpha with more confidence than every dude reading this board put-together, and made his money chasing bail-jumpers with dogs and a shotgun. The security he represented didn't have anything to do with his money, but the power of his personality.


Laurae1967 said:


> Conversely, I think men are more forgiving of women's emotional imperfections (if she is attractive) so there you go.


If she's attractive, she can get away with just about anything. If she's attractive and sexually available, she can get away with murder. If she's just sexually available . . . well, she'll still be pretty popular.

We're kinda stupid that way.


----------



## IanIronwood

that_girl said:


> What garbage is this? Is this proof to this? I must be a man in a woman's body...
> 
> In my experience, "sexually passive" women are such because they simply don't like sex with their present partner.


Note I said "in aggregate". That's because for every one of you, there are five women out there who can go years without a penis and be perfectly fine. Y'all average out to sexually passive. 

And yes, there is proof to this in evolutionary biology.


----------



## IanIronwood

Amplexor said:


> OK, but just remember you need to speak up when it gets cold. They get hard of hearing for some reason.


"lean real close and speak softly into the accompanying tube."

You'll have his rapt attention.


----------



## nice777guy

Curious as to what the ladies have to say about this...



IanIronwood said:


> ...women get weird when they find an attractive man who is unobtainable -- or at least off-limits. I don't wear a wedding ring anymore, because when I did I got hit on four times as much, and at least twice as aggressively as I ever did when I was single. A woman sees a man who is attached and "off limits" not as a challenge, like a typical male "playa" would, but as an opportunity to poach something someone else values. There is something about a "taken" man that can get a woman going in the worst way. Whereas a dude who sees a girl who clearly has a boyfriend is going to be a lot less ambitious about splitting her off, especially if that boyfriend out-ranks him in status or ass-kicking ability.


After my divorce, should I change my FB status to "It's Complicated" or "Divorced"???


----------



## IanIronwood

YupItsMe said:


> This thread has more bull**** than any other I have read recently so I will rip it to shreds for your reading pleasure.
> 
> 1. Starting with the original post. I cringe when I hear "I heard..." OK Ill bite. You heard this from who? IQ was? Age was? Marital status was? Level of success was? Agenda was? Level of maturity was? Level of physical fitness was? Level of attractiveness was? Level of wealth was?
> 
> 2. Men are in awe of women? Not this one nor are any of the well adjusted male adults I socialize with. Is it not easy to run into some loser saying something beyond ridiculous? Is it not equally easy to find some panty sniffer willing say nearly anything to try to manipulate an opportunity to get a whiff?
> 
> 3. There are plenty of men that dont follow their **** around like some pathetic animal in heat. Plenty do but they tend to be immature, stupid, lacking character, or narcissistic.
> 
> 4. I find hot females attempting to manipulate mature successful men silly, offensive and pathetic. It doesnt work and its a total waste of my valuable time helping her hotness process that reality so we can be serious.
> 
> 5. Id estimate well over 50% of extremely hot women are inadequate in many other ways since they have not had the opportunity to develop other ways beyond their looks of getting somewhere. Being hot stunts your growth in most other areas. This can hardly be something someone with a half a lick of good sense and judgement would be in "awe" of
> 
> 6. Stating we this, we that, as if a spokesman for an entire gender is beyond ignorant. Hence the several legitimate complaints about absurd overgeneralizing.
> 
> 7. It is equally ridiculous for a man to be telling a woman about women with the confidence of a rocket scientist describing his new rocket. How the hell would he know?
> 
> There is more but Im bored with this thread. Its too easy to beat the **** out of it



Um . . . this man happens to be a professional sex nerd, studying human mating patterns for over 25 years. And if I'm confident . . . well, in my experience, that usually means I'm right. What credentials would you accept?


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Chesterfield died of vd and who cares what random men think of women. Worry about what you think of yourself.


Obviously the OP did. It was an honest question. 

And what's wrong with dying of VD?


----------



## IanIronwood

Lon said:


> This is a loaded question because there are many types of men... even generalizing against what appears to be a "normal", typical guy is probably impossible. As a nice guy I am truly intimidated by an attractive (ie mostly looks) woman, it is my bane because as a niceguy I can't seem to ever get what I want. There have been times I look at the really hot women as mystical superbeings way beyond me... but in reality using logic I know that they are flawed and atleast as insecure as anyone else. I can't say what the pickup artists thinks of women, nor any other guy that doesn't fit into my model of existence, so there is no way to ever get a unanimous consensus on this.


Let me blow your illusions away for you, dude: beautiful women, on the whole, are lousy in bed. Especially if they've been aware of their beauty most of their lives.

I've met a lot of porn stars and watched thousands. There's a saying in the industry that "It's easier to make a girl who knows how to **** pretty than to teach a pretty girl how to ****." And there's a lot of truth in that. Beauty is no guarantee of a good sexual experience, and the whole "sacred sex goddess" thing about beautiful women is almost always as substantial as cotton candy or a licorice thong. Beauty is probably the least important aspect about a relationship with a woman, the most fleeting, the most subjective, and, honestly, the easiest thing to fake. 

Want some good advice? Find a cute former fat chick who discovered the gym. She'll be far better in bed than blonde hotties with big boobs. The biggest reason to go for the "beautiful women" is to increase your own status -- and if you have a solid relationship where you're getting righteously laid the way you like it, you don't _need_ that status. Promise.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

IanIronwood said:


> Obviously the OP did. It was an honest question.
> 
> And what's wrong with dying of VD?


Yes, it was an honest question that got turned around (by you) in to "men need sex". How that answered her question is beyond me.

Syphilis does funny things to your brain.....like destroy it. So take was the good "Lord" had to say with a grain of salt.


----------



## nice777guy

IanIronwood said:


> Want some good advice? Find a cute former fat chick who discovered the gym.


How do we spot them?!?!?!?!?

:smthumbup:


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

IanIronwood said:


> Let me blow your illusions away for you, dude: beautiful women, on the whole, are lousy in bed. Especially if they've been aware of their beauty most of their lives.
> 
> I've met a lot of porn stars and watched thousands. There's a saying in the industry that "It's easier to make a girl who knows how to **** pretty than to teach a pretty girl how to ****." And there's a lot of truth in that. Beauty is no guarantee of a good sexual experience, and the whole "sacred sex goddess" thing about beautiful women is almost always as substantial as cotton candy or a licorice thong. Beauty is probably the least important aspect about a relationship with a woman, the most fleeting, the most subjective, and, honestly, the easiest thing to fake.
> 
> Want some good advice? Find a cute former fat chick who discovered the gym. She'll be far better in bed than blonde hotties with big boobs. The biggest reason to go for the "beautiful women" is to increase your own status -- and if you have a solid relationship where you're getting righteously laid the way you like it, you don't _need_ that status. Promise.


Gawd, explain to me then if beauty is the least important in a relationship, why every man I have ever met wants a 9 or a 10 and that looks is valued above all? Never met a guy in my life who wanted a former fatty whose a 6. Not once.
Hot chicks can't screw? My husband whole heartedly disagrees with you.


----------



## nice777guy

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Never met a guy in my life who wanted a former fatty whose a 6. Not once.


:rofl:


----------



## Conrad

II,

After some of the things my wife and I have been through, our friends have difficulty digesting why we're still together.

And, when I tell this truth, it makes some women angry.

We "awakened" each other in bed. She is the exception to your rule. A beautiful woman who was willing to "work at it" - to where bells get rung and the earth moves regularly. Things she told me she would never do - she now does - with abandon.

We're working towards taking that willing spirit from our room into the rest of our house.

I think this a much easier task than taking the willing spirit of a good housekeeper into the master bedroom.





IanIronwood said:


> Let me blow your illusions away for you, dude: beautiful women, on the whole, are lousy in bed. Especially if they've been aware of their beauty most of their lives.
> 
> I've met a lot of porn stars and watched thousands. There's a saying in the industry that "It's easier to make a girl who knows how to **** pretty than to teach a pretty girl how to ****." And there's a lot of truth in that. Beauty is no guarantee of a good sexual experience, and the whole "sacred sex goddess" thing about beautiful women is almost always as substantial as cotton candy or a licorice thong. Beauty is probably the least important aspect about a relationship with a woman, the most fleeting, the most subjective, and, honestly, the easiest thing to fake.
> 
> Want some good advice? Find a cute former fat chick who discovered the gym. She'll be far better in bed than blonde hotties with big boobs. The biggest reason to go for the "beautiful women" is to increase your own status -- and if you have a solid relationship where you're getting righteously laid the way you like it, you don't _need_ that status. Promise.


----------



## AFEH

nice777guy said:


> How do we spot them?!?!?!?!?
> 
> :smthumbup:


:rofl:

But he’s right. Don't we all know looks are most certainly no guarantee in these things, far from it.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

nice777guy said:


> :rofl:


Yup, all the billionaires in the world don't have supermodels on their arms. They're all holding out for a Weight Watchers follower.


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Yes, it was an honest question that got turned around (by you) in to "men need sex". How that answered her question is beyond me.
> 
> Syphilis does funny things to your brain.....like destroy it. So take was the good "Lord" had to say with a grain of salt.


She wanted to know how men really thought about women. My answer was to provide context that it is usually through a sexual filter, and explained the mechanism somewhat. That is how it answered the question: because if you don't understand the Buzz, you can't understand that how we deal with women is heavily influenced by it, and without that essential piece of knowledge any other answer is going to be inexact and misunderstood.


----------



## IanIronwood

nice777guy said:


> How do we spot them?!?!?!?!?
> 
> :smthumbup:


They're the ones who still looked shocked and surprised when you buy them a drink. They don't think of themselves as "pretty" no matter how much effort and success they have. Try sci-fi cons and professional associations with a preponderance of hypercompetent women who don't usually even think about a social life. They can be surprisingly approachable, and well-worth the effort.


----------



## chillymorn

we think women are hot,sexy,compassionate,nurturing,soft,fun,inspiring

when with the right one!


when not with the right one we think.

bossy,b-t-h-,evil ,mean ,selfish,complainers,can't wait to get away from..............................................................


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Gawd, explain to me then if beauty is the least important in a relationship, why every man I have ever met wants a 9 or a 10 and that looks is valued above all? Never met a guy in my life who wanted a former fatty whose a 6. Not once.
> Hot chicks can't screw? My husband whole heartedly disagrees with you.


Why does every woman want a 6'2" blond-haired blue eyed muscular billionaire who's hopelessly devoted to her and will never look at another woman? Because sexual fantasies captivate us in contrast to our mundane world.

Why do most guys want a 9 or a 10? Status. Because they don't understand their own sexuality or how status works, and what the reward/goal incentives mean, they spend all their time and money pursuing women out of their league and "settling" for someone more obtainable. Like I said, most guys are ignorant: the whole point of high-status is to ensure sexual security, and if you find a smart girl who's pretty but doesn't know it and knows hot to screw and enjoys it . . . what is a hot blonde with big boobs going to get you? Trouble. But most guys are ignorant or stupid or both. I'm neither.

And I should have said MOST hot chicks can't screw. I've watched literally thousands of them, so I'd say I have a broad statistical sample, and the ones who _can _usually make it pretty far in the biz. The ones who can't usually end up on the feature dancer circuit and stop doing movies after 24 or 25.


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Yup, all the billionaires in the world don't have supermodels on their arms. They're all holding out for a Weight Watchers follower.


If you're a billionaire, then status and perception matter a lot more than if you're middle class. But note how often they divorce their trophies in favor of the newer model. They have scads of sexual security, but that just means that they're more inclined to be intrigued by novelty than beauty. When you're a billionaire, sexy, gorgeous women fly out of the woodwork until you're bored with them.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

IanIronwood said:


> And I should have said MOST hot chicks can't screw. I've watched literally thousands of them, so I'd say I have a broad statistical sample, and the ones who _can _usually make it pretty far in the biz. The ones who can't usually end up on the feature dancer circuit and stop doing movies after 24 or 25.


You have watched porn actors screw. As with any profession, some are good at what they do and some are not.
If you however had personally been with thousands and came to the conclusion that hot chicks can't screw, then I would believe you more. As it is, you are judging actors and not real life sex. 
I hear you on the status part. Hmmmm, have a few ??? I need to ask the hub.


----------



## Lon

mr ironwood, when you say, in your industry, its easy to make an ugly girl pretty, you must realize there has already been a filtration process. You are talking about the stunning lookers (a real 10 on the appearance scale) vs the "typical" pornstar (ie a 9 on the physical scale). When you are talking about a fattie, most people would assume you are talking about a chick that would never be able to land a job in anything but amatuer porn, but be honest by fattie you probably mean a 5'6" girl that "ballooned" to more than 115lbs. Your idea of a fattie is still probably more physically attractive (in the societal sense) than the average woman.


----------



## that_girl

lol All this talk about beauty, like it's set in stone what "beauty" is.

Get over yourselves, people. Beauty comes in all sizes, looks, etc...I don't base my perception of beauty from porn films. Thank goodness my husband doesn't either. I don't look like a pornstar and I'm happy about that


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

that_girl said:


> lol All this talk about beauty, like it's set in stone what "beauty" is.
> 
> Get over yourselves, people. Beauty comes in all sizes, looks, etc...I don't base my perception of beauty from porn films. Thank goodness my husband doesn't either. I don't look like a pornstar and I'm happy about that


I never thought there were beautiful people in porn. I don't find artificial attractive at all and most are so over the top that I find it revolting. 
Agreed that beauty comes in all sizes, looks, etc and nobody sets that standard. Well symmetry is pretty much a given but other than that, it's individual.


----------



## nice777guy

A lot of days, I'd gladly try out an enthusiastic, open-minded, still chubby, hasn't discovered the gym yet "5"!!!

Key is "enthusiastic!"

Personality helps a bit too.

Flexibility - not a bad thing.

Getting myself all worked up here!!!

My wife - in my eyes - was always at least an 8 or 9! But WHAT A PAIN IN THE ASS!!!


----------



## nice777guy

I'll be at the gym - hanging out by the candy bar machine if anyone needs me! Don't wait up!!!!


----------



## nice777guy

nice777guy said:


> A lot of days, I'd gladly try out an enthusiastic, open-minded, still chubby, hasn't discovered the gym yet "5"!!!


And I'm sorry - but to be a bit serious again - with respect to beauty and 5s v. 10s or whatever - almost all women have some trait that I find attractive. Its rare to see a woman and have NO interest - unless there is an issue with her personality.

A "10" can become a "5" real quick just by opening her mouth sometimes. And a "5" easily converts to a "10" with a nice smile.

And no - I'm not bull****ting here...


----------



## Kobo

Lon said:


> mr ironwood, when you say, in your industry, its easy to make an ugly girl pretty, you must realize there has already been a filtration process. You are talking about the stunning lookers (a real 10 on the appearance scale) vs the "typical" pornstar (ie a 9 on the physical scale). When you are talking about a fattie, most people would assume you are talking about a chick that would never be able to land a job in anything but amatuer porn, but be honest by fattie you probably mean a 5'6" girl that "ballooned" to more than 115lbs. Your idea of a fattie is still probably more physically attractive (in the societal sense) than the average woman.


I think some people have a glorified opinion of the women that are in porn. There are not that many "10s" in the world and very few if any of them end up in porn. Being skinny and blond doesn't make you a "10". When you see an actual 10 you know it because she pretty much takes your breath away and you can't stop looking at her. Don't think I've seen a porn star that can do that. The attraction to Porn of men is the enthusiasm at which they are approaching the sex. Which is why Ian talks about the role the ability to screw plays in the industry. The scenes show a man paying very little to his woman's "emotional needs" and still getting his socks blown off.


----------



## that_girl

But a 5 to one man is a 10 to another. and visa versa.


----------



## Kobo

As for what men think about women, for the most part it depends on the individual woman. Some generalities that I have are:



A woman's love stronger than a man's
Women are mentally stronger than a man (when they deny their emotions)
Logical thinking is not very valuable to a woman
Women play to their emotions way too often
Women handle pain/sickness extremely well
Women can't drive
Women can't parallel park
Women have too much going on in their heads at one time
Women cheat more than men (I consider having a backup living in the friend zone cheating)
Women generally are too competive with each other leading to their own detriment
women smell awesome
A Woman's need for a man's affection can be too strong.


----------



## Kobo

that_girl said:


> But a 5 to one man is a 10 to another. and visa versa.


In total package, yeah. A man can be hopelessly in love with a lady with no front teeth, she is a ten to him. Ask him to think logically and he'll have to admit she's not a ten physically. 

Since we are comparing everyday women to women in the porn industry it has to be on straight physical appearance as most men don't meet them and get to know their total package. With straight physical beauty, a ten will be obvious. You'll even notice a ten when they don't fall into your general preferance.


----------



## that_girl

Women I've seen in porn are nassssty looking. lolllll They look worn out and sad.

And I can parallel park-- and drive. It's something you learn while living in Los Angeles. lol


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Kobo said:


> I think some people have a glorified opinion of the women that are in porn. There are not that many "10s" in the world and very few if any of them end up in porn. Being skinny and blond doesn't make you a "10". When you see an actual 10 you know it because she pretty much takes your breath away and you can't stop looking at her. Don't think I've seen a porn star that can do that. The attraction to Porn of men is the enthusiasm at which they are approaching the sex. Which is why Ian talks about the role the ability to screw plays in the industry. The scenes show a man paying very little to his woman's "emotional needs" and still getting his socks blown off.


Who has a glorified opinion of women in porn? Really? 

Of course they are enthusiastic about sex....they are getting paid! One could also argue that the reason the prettier ones in porn are worse at their jobs is because they realize they are prettier and are seeking a way out. Not sure but the prettier you are, the more options you have. 
Again, I think Ian is comparing apples to oranges. Basing watching ugly/prettier women in porn to real life women seems off. Real life experience I would trust. Watching movies and comparing that way isn't reality.


----------



## IanIronwood

Lon said:


> mr ironwood, when you say, in your industry, its easy to make an ugly girl pretty, you must realize there has already been a filtration process. You are talking about the stunning lookers (a real 10 on the appearance scale) vs the "typical" pornstar (ie a 9 on the physical scale). When you are talking about a fattie, most people would assume you are talking about a chick that would never be able to land a job in anything but amatuer porn, but be honest by fattie you probably mean a 5'6" girl that "ballooned" to more than 115lbs. Your idea of a fattie is still probably more physically attractive (in the societal sense) than the average woman.


Oh, no, you aren't going to corner me with that "all porn stars look the same" meme! I watch hundreds of DVDs every month, and that includes all niches: chubby, hairy, MILF, fresh faces, amateur, you name it. While there is certainly a place for the big-boobed blonde that is typically associated with the industry, the fact is that the rank-and-file porn performer doesn't look any better or any worse than any woman you'd randomly pass on the street. Hence my point. Most porn producers below a certain level (say, producing big-budget features) are far, far more interested in how a woman performs than how she looks. Of course looks are a factor, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a particular "look" is typical in any sense. 

That's the truth of porn: for a lot of complicated reasons the "girl next door" (whomever she might be) is far more a standard than the blonde-with-big-boobs that's usually hauled out as the "porn ideal" by our detractors. Yes, there are a lot of attractive people in porn. There are also some _un_attractive people. That's because everyone's idea of what "beautiful" is is completely subjective. And within that tent you have nearly infinite variety.


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You have watched porn actors screw. As with any profession, some are good at what they do and some are not.
> If you however had personally been with thousands and came to the conclusion that hot chicks can't screw, then I would believe you more. As it is, you are judging actors and not real life sex.
> I hear you on the status part. Hmmmm, have a few ??? I need to ask the hub.


Well, don't forget that these days "porn actors" are often regular couples who set up a camera and go for it -- a great deal of what I watch is amateur footage.

And as with any profession, some of us reviewers are good at what we do and some are not. I am, and while I have never had sex with a porn star myself, being happily married, after the first thousand hours or so of footage you start to realize the subtleties that distinguish a "good" performance from a "poor" performance. Little looks and expressions, body language, director's comments (if any), and the authenticity of the experience all demonstrate a particular performer's level of expertise.

Or, in other words, you don't have to be a great ice skater to professionally judge ice skating. You just need to know your stuff.


----------



## Kobo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Who has a glorified opinion of women in porn? Really?
> 
> *Did you see that I quoted someone?*
> 
> Of course they are enthusiastic about sex....they are getting paid! One could also argue that the reason the prettier ones in porn are worse at their jobs is because they realize they are prettier and are seeking a way out. Not sure but the prettier you are, the more options you have.
> Again, I think Ian is comparing apples to oranges. Basing watching ugly/prettier women in porn to real life women seems off. Real life experience I would trust. Watching movies and comparing that way isn't reality.
> 
> 
> *Doesn't matter why they are enthusiastic. I'm talking about a reason men are attracted to porn*


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I never thought there were beautiful people in porn. I don't find artificial attractive at all and most are so over the top that I find it revolting.
> Agreed that beauty comes in all sizes, looks, etc and nobody sets that standard. Well symmetry is pretty much a given but other than that, it's individual.


Just how much and what type of porn have you watched?

Last year there were over 20,000 porn DVDs released. That's about 50 a DAY. Depending on your kink and the vendor, you can get pretty much any kind of people doing any kind of thing, and some of it is breathtakingly authentic. 

I find that there are a lot of broad misconceptions about porn by people who have very little experience with it.


----------



## that_girl

I am so thankful that my husband is not a porn watcher. I knew he was 'the one' when he said that. And there's nothing "wrong " with him. He just doesn't like the whole idea of it. However, we do have tons of sex...maybe that's because he doesn't jack off to other people having sex.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Ian, you can always steer a thread to porn, now can't you? Any chance in the real world you talk about something other than sex and porn? Say politics, healthcare and the plight of the spotted owl?


----------



## that_girl

The owl's plight is good porn. Politicians are wh0res. Nurses are hot.


lol.


----------



## IanIronwood

Kobo said:


> In total package, yeah. A man can be hopelessly in love with a lady with no front teeth, she is a ten to him. Ask him to think logically and he'll have to admit she's not a ten physically.
> 
> Since we are comparing everyday women to women in the porn industry it has to be on straight physical appearance as most men don't meet them and get to know their total package. With straight physical beauty, a ten will be obvious. You'll even notice a ten when they don't fall into your general preferance.


Once you add in the intelligence and personality factor, the math gets screwy with pornstars.

My assessment? about 90% of the performers I meet make me think "Thank God there's a porn industry, or this poor girl would be nearly unemployable!" Not a bright bunch.

Then there are the other 10%. The really _smart_ ones. They're the 10s . . . or nines with enough confidence to fake it convincingly. Beauty, brains, and enthusiasm? That's a deadly, deadly combination, and the fact of the matter is you just can't impress a girl like that with the car you drive. Hers is always going to be better.


----------



## IanIronwood

that_girl said:


> Women I've seen in porn are nassssty looking. lolllll They look worn out and sad.
> 
> And I can parallel park-- and drive. It's something you learn while living in Los Angeles. lol



How much porn have you watched? And what kinds? That may play a role in your assessment.


----------



## Kobo

that_girl said:


> I am so thankful that my husband is not a porn watcher. I knew he was 'the one' when he said that. And there's nothing "wrong " with him. He just doesn't like the whole idea of it. However, we do have tons of sex...maybe that's because he doesn't jack off to other people having sex.


Well, He could be jacking off to the zumba instructor at the gym while taking a shower. Na, he's not a masturbator. :rofl:


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

that_girl said:


> The owl's plight is good porn. Politicians are wh0res. Nurses are hot.
> 
> 
> lol.


Ha! Seriously, this thread was about what men think of women and now it has been reduced down to types of porn and what not. I give up. Not getting sucked in to another porn thread.


----------



## that_girl

It doesn't matter, to me, what kind. The one's I've seen just look sad and the men....omg...just....:rofl: SICK!

This was years ago though--- I'm not a porn watcher. I'd rather go molest my husband.


----------



## that_girl

Kobo said:


> Well, He could be jacking off to the zumba instructor at the gym while taking a shower. Na, he's not a masturbator. :rofl:


Pardon?

He's not a masturbater. I know it's hard for people to understand, but not everyone wants to jack off when they can just go to their wife or gf for a quickie or a bj. :smthumbup:

He said he never got into it. 

He doesn't go to the gym either  He's naturally a hottie.


----------



## Amplexor

TRBE, take some Benadryl before you scroll down.
































Another porn argument. Goody!! 

I remembered your allergy.


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Who has a glorified opinion of women in porn? Really?
> 
> Of course they are enthusiastic about sex....they are getting paid! One could also argue that the reason the prettier ones in porn are worse at their jobs is because they realize they are prettier and are seeking a way out. Not sure but the prettier you are, the more options you have.


Getting paid doesn't make you enthusiastic about sex. You can learn a lot about technique and develop a profound skill-set, but more money does not equate to more enthusiasm. Note that most prostitutes are faking enthusiasm, too. Being "prettier" is such a subjective thing after a certain level that it stops becoming an issue. And no matter how pretty you are, if you can't convincingly fake enthusiasm because you're planning your exit strategy from the industry, guess what? You've found your exit strategy, because directors will stop calling you, and now you're pushing wings at Hooters for minimum wage instead of doing a couple hours of work for $500-$1500 and still be off in time to pick up your kids from daycare. 



Therealbrighteyes said:


> Again, I think Ian is comparing apples to oranges. Basing watching ugly/prettier women in porn to real life women seems off. Real life experience I would trust. Watching movies and comparing that way isn't reality.


Then whose opinion would you accept? Wilt Chamberlain's? Considering a large part of my job is watching "real life women" (because somehow porn performers aren't real, don't have lives, and aren't really women) getting freaky with their mates in front of the camera. 

Accepting the fact that I haven't screwed all these women, I'd still say I'm more qualified to pass judgement on their performances, in several different aspects, than the vast majority of men out there.


----------



## Deejo

I think women are swell.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Amp,

Your photo didn't come up. Hopefully it was a "10" spotted owl. 

I'll need a hell of a lot more than Benadryl if I'm getting sucked in to another porn convo with Ole' Wood that's for sure. A heroin epidural perhaps?





























Another porn argument. Goody!! 

I remembered your allergy. [/QUOTE]


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Ian, you can always steer a thread to porn, now can't you? Any chance in the real world you talk about something other than sex and porn? Say politics, healthcare and the plight of the spotted owl?


Um, sure. I can expound at length on any number of topics. But in a site called Talk About Marriage in the Men's Clubhouse in a thread called What do men really think of women? I thought that it was appropriate and germane. If you can show me how owls have an affect on men's opinions of women, I'd love to hear it.


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Ha! Seriously, this thread was about what men think of women and now it has been reduced down to types of porn and what not. I give up. Not getting sucked in to another porn thread.


Too bad. You might understand some very important and basic things about male sexual psychology, and that might be dangerous.

Back to your romance novels and soap operas, then.


----------



## Kobo

that_girl said:


> Pardon?
> 
> He's not a masturbater. I know it's hard for people to understand, but not everyone wants to jack off when they can just go to their wife or gf for a quickie or a bj. :smthumbup:
> 
> He said he never got into it.
> 
> He doesn't go to the gym either  He's naturally a hottie.


It's a joke, not hard to understand. I didn't masturbate until I was 20. Missed out on a lot of quality time with my right hand. As far as a "quickie" I don't do those much anymore, not since my twenties, I'm lucky enough to have the ability to have 2 or 3moments of quality with rightie and still take my lady to the moon.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

IanIronwood said:


> Too bad. You might understand some very important and basic things about male sexual psychology, and that might be dangerous.
> 
> Back to your romance novels and soap operas, then.


If by romance novels you mean The Economist and by soap operas you mean The Discovery Channel then yes.
Never read a romance novel/watched a soap/reality show in my damn life. If I want romance, I'll go out and find it in the real world.
Carry on. :whip:


----------



## uphillbattle

that_girl said:


> Pardon?
> 
> He's not a masturbater. I know it's hard for people to understand, but not everyone wants to jack off when they can just go to their wife or gf for a quickie or a bj. :smthumbup:
> 
> He said he never got into it.
> 
> He doesn't go to the gym either  He's naturally a hottie.


If my wife had the same attitude I wouldnt jack off either.


----------



## AFEH

that_girl said:


> But a 5 to one man is a 10 to another. and visa versa.


Absolutely


----------



## Lon

IanIronwood said:


> Oh, no, you aren't going to corner me with that "all porn stars look the same" meme! I watch hundreds of DVDs every month, and that includes all niches: chubby, hairy, MILF, fresh faces, amateur, you name it. While there is certainly a place for the big-boobed blonde that is typically associated with the industry, the fact is that the rank-and-file porn performer doesn't look any better or any worse than any woman you'd randomly pass on the street. Hence my point. Most porn producers below a certain level (say, producing big-budget features) are far, far more interested in how a woman performs than how she looks. Of course looks are a factor, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a particular "look" is typical in any sense.
> 
> That's the truth of porn: for a lot of complicated reasons the "girl next door" (whomever she might be) is far more a standard than the blonde-with-big-boobs that's usually hauled out as the "porn ideal" by our detractors. Yes, there are a lot of attractive people in porn. There are also some _un_attractive people. That's because everyone's idea of what "beautiful" is is completely subjective. And within that tent you have nearly infinite variety.


I guess I'm referring to the "glamour models gone bad" type of actresses that seem somewhat prevalent in the general, straight, mainstream category. I realize they are just dolled up to appeal to my senses, but what I'm saying is that it works on me even if it is cheap, but I can tell the difference between a 7 or an 8 made to look like a 10 vs an actual ten (even if she is dolled up way over the top). The average, everyday pass-you-on-the street type of woman you talk about is the same thing, there are some amazing looking everyday girls that are easily "10"s even without the makeup and heels, but for the most part the "average" woman wouldn't fool me. Like I said I know what I like and I know what I don't, if they are sad looking, worn out, fake or amateur, or even of the pam anderson novelty variety I generally don't get drawn in the same way as if its an unknown(girl next door) who is really a 10, on screen and off. Anyways its my word (the customer, albeit a non-paying one) vs pornogrpaher, and the customer is always right 

I also realize that my view on this doesn't seem healthy to me, I'm just trying to be honest on here. Sexuality has been twisted and distorted my whole life, and I'm working to fix that in myself but not sure if I will ever be able to change the basic paradigm - however I am a lot deeper than just my twisted idealistic fantasy world, and in real life I'm not seeking for a relationship with a porn actress. My stbxw was not close to my "ideal" because that is totally unrealistic and unfair, even though she could never meet my fantasy ideal she was the sexiest woman I could ever have imagined and I loved her entirely, body mind and soul.


----------



## that_girl

Quickies are fun after work.



We don't always have quickies though. Last night was nice


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> If by romance novels you mean The Economist and by soap operas you mean The Discovery Channel then yes.
> Never read a romance novel/watched a soap/reality show in my damn life. If I want romance, I'll go out and find it in the real world.
> Carry on. :whip:


Yet you have all these quaint ideas about how men are and should be . . . they must have come from somewhere.


----------



## that_girl

Kobo said:


> It's a joke, not hard to understand. I didn't masturbate until I was 20. Missed out on a lot of quality time with my right hand. As far as a "quickie" I don't do those much anymore, not since my twenties, I'm lucky enough to have the ability to have 2 or 3moments of quality with rightie and still take my lady to the moon.


oh, I guess I didn't think it was funny. 

Why no quickies? They are fun! Like little appetizers before dinner...


----------



## nice777guy

that_girl said:


> But a 5 to one man is a 10 to another. and visa versa.


Yes - I tried to clarify that - but did so poorly. Or - like I said - a 5 can turn to a 7 with a smile, an 8 with a pleasant hello, etc., etc

As the 10 can also go downhill with a frown or a bad attitude.

Its all relative...


----------



## Halien

For what another everyday joe thinks about women, maybe its helpful to talk about what we think of as a good woman:

- she can smile, and smiles often. Her beauty is here, and in her confidence as a woman.
- add a couple of zeroes to my salary, and she doesn't immediately start talking about color choices for the $70k car. Take away those zeroes, and she'll probably pick out a comedy movie to cheer us up.
-If I screw up and tell her how those wierd pants really look on her bottom, she cuts me some slack, and gives me something easy the next time, like invisible panties. 
-If I put my heart and soul into the relationship, she tries to also. But since she's confident, she'll speak clearly when I'm screwing up, instead of reverting to communication modes that only her girlfriends would understand. Me man - Don't grok resentment-speak. Just tell me to get my a$$ in gear, because I'm mechanically inclined and I'll get it.
- She never, ever reminds me that its been almost two years since my last promotion. That's why they call it a economic downturn. If she does, I might even get a promotion and 'forget' to tell her about it, just like that bonus that's coming in January.
- Okay - this is a biggie - If I work really hard to schedule that perfect weekend getaway, she never gets mad at me if the plane breaks down just before it takes off, and we have to stay in an Econo Lodge because some doofus scheduled a Nascar event in the city of our connecting flight.

Man, I realized that I was gettin' a little personal towards the end. Maybe I was throwing in a little lighthearted angst.


----------



## that_girl

Halien said:


> For what another everyday joe thinks about women, maybe its helpful to talk about what we think of as a good woman:
> 
> - she can smile, and smiles often. Her beauty is here, and in her confidence as a woman.
> - add a couple of zeroes to my salary, and she doesn't immediately start talking about color choices for the $70k car. Take away those zeroes, and she'll probably pick out a comedy movie to cheer us up.
> -If I screw up and tell her how those wierd pants really look on her bottom, she cuts me some slack, and gives me something easy the next time, like invisible panties.
> -If I put my heart and soul into the relationship, she tries to also. But since she's confident, she'll speak clearly when I'm screwing up, instead of reverting to communication modes that only her girlfriends would understand. Me man - Don't grok resentment-speak. Just tell me to get my a$$ in gear, because I'm mechanically inclined and I'll get it.
> - She never, ever reminds me that its been almost two years since my last promotion. That's why they call it a economic downturn. If she does, I might even get a promotion and 'forget' to tell her about it, just like that bonus that's coming in January.
> - Okay - this is a biggie - If I work really hard to schedule that perfect weekend getaway, she never gets mad at me if the plane breaks down just before it takes off, and we have to stay in an Econo Lodge because some doofus scheduled a Nascar event in the city of our connecting flight.
> 
> Man, I realized that I was gettin' a little personal towards the end. Maybe I was throwing in a little lighthearted angst.


:smthumbup:


----------



## IanIronwood

Lon said:


> I guess I'm referring to the "glamour models gone bad" type of actresses that seem somewhat prevalent in the general, straight, mainstream category. I realize they are just dolled up to appeal to my senses, but what I'm saying is that it works on me even if it is cheap, but I can tell the difference between a 7 or an 8 made to look like a 10 vs an actual ten (even if she is dolled up way over the top). The average, everyday pass-you-on-the street type of woman you talk about is the same thing, there are some amazing looking everyday girls that are easily "10"s even without the makeup and heels, but for the most part the "average" woman wouldn't fool me. Like I said I know what I like and I know what I don't, if they are sad looking, worn out, fake or amateur, or even of the pam anderson novelty variety I generally don't get drawn in the same way as if its an unknown(girl next door) who is really a 10, on screen and off. Anyways its my word (the customer, albeit a non-paying one) vs pornogrpaher, and the customer is always right
> 
> I also realize that my view on this doesn't seem healthy to me, I'm just trying to be honest on here. Sexuality has been twisted and distorted my whole life, and I'm working to fix that in myself but not sure if I will ever be able to change the basic paradigm - however I am a lot deeper than just my twisted idealistic fantasy world, and in real life I'm not seeking for a relationship with a porn actress. My stbxw was not close to my "ideal" because that is totally unrealistic and unfair, even though she could never meet my fantasy ideal she was the sexiest woman I could ever have imagined and I loved her entirely, body mind and soul.


Understood. Fantasies are for our brains, not our real lives. The imaginary fantasy you build up of a pornstar is on par with the imaginary fantasy women build up of the romantic hero: it's an ideal that can never be realized, and its not intended to be. It's there to furnish you with fodder for your erotic imagination and allow you to express some desires that may otherwise be difficult to express. 

But don't beat yourself up about porn: it's a perfectly natural, perfectly normal part of masculine sexuality.


----------



## that_girl

nice777guy said:


> Yes - I tried to clarify that - but did so poorly. Or - like I said - a 5 can turn to a 7 with a smile, an 8 with a pleasant hello, etc., etc
> 
> As the 10 can also go downhill with a frown or a bad attitude.
> 
> Its all relative...


Many of the men I've dated weren't so attractive to me at first glance, but after a conversation and hanging out, they became more beautiful until I thought they were just the most sexy man alive.

I've dated a few "hotties" who came from douche-dom...they became very ugly, very quickly.

Oddly enough, my husband instantly attracted me to him with his face and body and then when he opened his mouth, I was hooked. :smthumbup:


----------



## Kobo

that_girl said:


> oh, I guess I didn't think it was funny.
> 
> Why no quickies? They are fun! Like little appetizers before dinner...


Na, parts don't "work" like that anymore. We'd have to go on a 2-3 week hiatus.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

IanIronwood said:


> Yet you have all these quaint ideas about how men are and should be . . . they must have come from somewhere.


Quaint ideas about how men are? Uh, I've dated, screwed men, married one, have two sons....one who is an adult. Work with men, work in a male dominated field, have male friends, have male neighbors. 
Where oh where could I gotten ideas about men?


----------



## that_girl

IanIronwood said:


> But don't beat yourself up about porn: it's a perfectly natural, perfectly normal part of masculine sexuality.


:rofl: Yea....no.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Halien said:


> For what another everyday joe thinks about women, maybe its helpful to talk about what we think of as a good woman:
> 
> - she can smile, and smiles often. Her beauty is here, and in her confidence as a woman.
> - add a couple of zeroes to my salary, and she doesn't immediately start talking about color choices for the $70k car. Take away those zeroes, and she'll probably pick out a comedy movie to cheer us up.
> -If I screw up and tell her how those wierd pants really look on her bottom, she cuts me some slack, and gives me something easy the next time, like invisible panties.
> -If I put my heart and soul into the relationship, she tries to also. But since she's confident, she'll speak clearly when I'm screwing up, instead of reverting to communication modes that only her girlfriends would understand. Me man - Don't grok resentment-speak. Just tell me to get my a$$ in gear, because I'm mechanically inclined and I'll get it.
> - She never, ever reminds me that its been almost two years since my last promotion. That's why they call it a economic downturn. If she does, I might even get a promotion and 'forget' to tell her about it, just like that bonus that's coming in January.
> - Okay - this is a biggie - If I work really hard to schedule that perfect weekend getaway, she never gets mad at me if the plane breaks down just before it takes off, and we have to stay in an Econo Lodge because some doofus scheduled a Nascar event in the city of our connecting flight.
> 
> Man, I realized that I was gettin' a little personal towards the end. Maybe I was throwing in a little lighthearted angst.


Finally. Back to the topic. Halien, you are a gem. Love your post.


----------



## that_girl

Kobo said:


> Na, parts don't "work" like that anymore. We'd have to go on a 2-3 week hiatus.


Bummer.


----------



## Kobo

that_girl said:


> Bummer.


Na. You know how inspired you ladies can get to try and finish the little guy off. :smthumbup:


----------



## that_girl

Kobo said:


> Na. You know how inspired you ladies can get to try and finish the little guy off. :smthumbup:


:lol: I get inspired daily.


----------



## that_girl

Kobo said:


> Na. You know how inspired you ladies can get to try and finish the little guy off. :smthumbup:


:lol: I get inspired daily...well, to make the little guy finish


----------



## Lon

IanIronwood said:


> Understood. Fantasies are for our brains, not our real lives. The imaginary fantasy you build up of a pornstar is on par with the imaginary fantasy women build up of the romantic hero: it's an ideal that can never be realized, and its not intended to be. It's there to furnish you with fodder for your erotic imagination and allow you to express some desires that may otherwise be difficult to express.
> 
> But don't beat yourself up about porn: it's a perfectly natural, perfectly normal part of masculine sexuality.


Well, except the "imaginary fantasy" is based on actual live footage of a real live person, and the physical appearance is most real and most certainly affects me, whether or not there are embellishments (as there always are even in RL). The romantic hero that you are referring to which women build up can be cut and paste from an infinite number of sources, there doesn't have to be a real physical quality, it can be complete fiction. In porn, the story line is the only thing that is fictional, its real people having real sex (and putting it on film for whatever the motivation).

I don't feel bad that porn appeals to my sexuality, but I do not believe it has been healthy for me to embrace it - the problem is not necessarily that it exists but more because I've used it as a way to cope with the way I seek love and gratification... I'm just tired of backing away from what I want and like, always afraid to pursue women I'm attracted to because I've put them above me (even if it is clear to everyone here they are not no matter what they look like), and I'm tired of watching and not participating. Porn gave me something I could compartmentalize, but in the end it has hurt the woman I loved most because what she needed was packed up in a box along with a bunch of fantasy stuff I was too ashamed to open up, its not porn's fault but it has played a part in the way I think of women and sexuality.

But... as I alluded to, what I generally think of women is in no way wrapped up in the world of porn, that box is normally sealed shut, and there is so much more to relationships that just what we've been talking about...


----------



## IanIronwood

that_girl said:


> :rofl: Yea....no.


And upon what authority do you base this judgement? Please explain the logic underlying that conclusion, because it doesn't fit the available facts.


----------



## that_girl

WhereAmI said:


> Mine isn't a masterbater, either. He says its boring and he ends up thinking about work and other mundane things. I imagine him "having a time" while randomly spotting things in the room *whackwhack*That's a nice lamp*whackwhack*
> 
> I pick on him about it a lot. Mean, mean wifey.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl:


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Just so you know, the last thread that Wood defended porn on went for 37 pages. It had its ups and downs and a murderous robot was introduced, a Japanese sex doll was mentioned, Lorena Bobbitt got her 15 minutes of fame back, Amp won an award and Ian hammered out at least 100,000 words defending porn but truthfully I lost count because my eyeballs exploded at the length of his posts. Fair warning.


----------



## Trenton

BigBadWolf said:


> Lord Chesterfield, letter to his son, 1748:
> 
> 
> 
> Most men, in my experience, are somewhere between Lord Chesterfield's sentiments and "awe".


That quote makes me sick to my stomach and unless you are going to proclaim that you don't believe that quote to be true, you're not far behind. I don't even need to mull it around in my childish mind for days to know how double standard, outdated and hypocritical that quote is in regards to what it is saying about women. 

Give women equal opportunities and you'll quickly see how capable they are. Men who still believe that this is the exception rather than the rule have never had a grasp on what women are like to begin with (perhaps too involved in old quotes and their own sexual needs). They view a woman as something to be owned and treasured or framed and admired. To me, this brings nothing but the utmost disgust.

The funniest part about all of this is that the most attractive of men is not the strong, skilled words-man and flirt. He is the man who is so confident in himself that he doesn't need to think of or practice these things at all. He would find awe in the individual he fell in love with. He most likely would never lose his sense of awe in all things because life is quite awe inspiring and if it's not you're doing something wrong. Instead of playing games or whacking off to porn with some sorry, well thought out response as to why it's natural, he would be spending his time thinking about him and her and what their next mutual adventure would be. Most of all, he would be confident in his masculinity, so much so that finding strength within a woman's femininity wouldn't frighten him so.


----------



## Amplexor

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Just so you know, the last thread that Wood defended porn on went for 37 pages. It had its ups and downs and a murderous robot was introduced, a Japanese sex doll was mentioned, Lorena Bobbitt got her 15 minutes of fame back, Amp won an award and Ian hammered out at least 100,000 words defending porn but truthfully I lost count because my eyeballs exploded at the length of his posts. Fair warning.


Yes, but this one has talking balls. How cool is that!!!!


----------



## Trenton

Amplexor said:


> Yes, but this one has talking balls. How cool is that!!!!


Really, really cool! It's great when a man's sensitive side isn't afraid to speak out. It's kind of scary when you look at what it had to say.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Trenton said:


> That quote makes me sick to my stomach and unless you are going to proclaim that you don't believe that quote to be true, you're not far behind. I don't even need to mull it around in my childish mind for days to know how double standard, outdated and hypocritical that quote is in regards to what it is saying about women.
> 
> Give women equal opportunities and you'll quickly see how capable they are. Men who still believe that this is the exception rather than the rule have never had a grasp on what women are like to begin with (perhaps too involved in old quotes and their own sexual needs). They view a woman as something to be owned and treasured or framed and admired. To me, this brings nothing but the utmost disgust.
> 
> The funniest part about all of this is that the most attractive of men is not the strong, skilled words-man and flirt. He is the man who is so confident in himself that he doesn't need to think of or practice these things at all. He would find awe in the individual he fell in love with. He most likely would never lose his sense of awe in all things because life is quite awe inspiring and if it's not you're doing something wrong. Instead of playing games or whacking off to porn with some sorry, well thought out response as to why it's natural, he would be spending his time thinking about him and her and what their next mutual adventure would be. Most of all, he would be confident in his masculinity, so much so that finding strength within a woman's femininity wouldn't frighten him so.


Smartest man I know is my husband. He wouldn't look twice at a woman who wasn't his equal. Funny how the smart ones also are confident. Intelligence + confidence = real man. All the others can continue to moan about women being less than but then that says more about them, now doesn't it.


----------



## that_girl

My husband is smart too. I am in awe of his skills.

This thread is awesome :rofl: It's making me stifle my giggles at work.


----------



## Halien

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Just so you know, the last thread that Wood defended porn on went for 37 pages. It had its ups and downs and a murderous robot was introduced, a Japanese sex doll was mentioned, Lorena Bobbitt got her 15 minutes of fame back, Amp won an award and Ian hammered out at least 100,000 words defending porn but truthfully I lost count because my eyeballs exploded at the length of his posts. Fair warning.


As a disclaimer, I recognize that I'm odd, and some friends even think Dean Koontz had me in mind when he wrote the series about Odd Thomas. That said, the whole concept of porn lost its appeal for me when I was about five, and realized that an eraser wouldn't actually remove the bra's from the models in the JC Penny catalog. I mean, it did remove them, but I saw no breasts underneath. So, a porn star has never jumped out of the screen to give me a BJ. If I tried to do the dirty with her ... I mean ... those old cathode tubes actually held a charge, didn't they? Would you ever use that TV again without thinking about what you actually almost tried? 

I'm practical. So, back to the JC Penny catalogue days, when faced with a choice between my step-dad's magazines, and Kim [last name removed]'s invitation to 'you show me yours and I'll show you mine', porn was virtually ruined for me. In a college with 35,000 people who wanted to get drunk from thursday to sunday, buying a girl a drink in O'Malleys was actually cheaper than renting a video for a date with my right hand. For a glorious few years in the 80's, seemed like an offer to buy a drink, even a wine cooler, was like an incredible ticket to sex with a beautiful young woman, because all the other guys were either too shy to ask, or had rented out the whole porn section at the video store.

I guess I just don't get porn.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Amplexor said:


> Yes, but this one has talking balls. How cool is that!!!!


Well we need something to enhance the balls then and keep them quiet when necessary. I propose this:

Very sexy handknitted underwear shorts for men by warmpresents


----------



## Lon

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Smartest man I know is my husband. He wouldn't look twice at a woman who wasn't his equal. Funny how the smart ones also are confident. Intelligence + confidence = real man. All the others can continue to moan about women being less than but then that says more about them, now doesn't it.


I'm glad it works for you, but not all men are smart and/or confident, so are they not entitled to love and happiness? I consider myself smart but not very confident, though I am a real man (I'm real and I'm a man), i view everybody as my equal and like everybody I just want love and happiness. So are you saying no woman will be attracted to me because I don't exhibit confidence?


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Just so you know, the last thread that Wood defended porn on went for 37 pages. It had its ups and downs and a murderous robot was introduced, a Japanese sex doll was mentioned, Lorena Bobbitt got her 15 minutes of fame back, Amp won an award and Ian hammered out at least 100,000 words defending porn but truthfully I lost count because my eyeballs exploded at the length of his posts. Fair warning.


Some people just can't handle me. I've come to accept that. I am vast, I contain multitudes.


----------



## IanIronwood

Lon said:


> I'm glad it works for you, but not all men are smart and/or confident, so are they not entitled to love and happiness? I consider myself smart but not very confident, though I am a real man (I'm real and I'm a man), i view everybody as my equal and like everybody I just want love and happiness. So are you saying no woman will be attracted to me because I don't exhibit confidence?


Women of quality? That would be a hard sell.

Confidence is one of the prime attractors in both genders. With it, you dramatically improve your chances of attracting the mate you want. Without it . . . well, betalife can be hard, but some men find happiness there.

Oh, and confidence also leads to a greater chance of actually reproducing. And since, as a male, you only have a 40% chance at doing that anyway, if it's important to you you might consider looking into it.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

IanIronwood said:


> Some people just can't handle me. I've come to accept that. I am vast, I contain multitudes.


No, you're pretty one dimensional. All of us were trying to see you in 3D. We finally gave up.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Lon said:


> I'm glad it works for you, but not all men are smart and/or confident, so are they not entitled to love and happiness? I consider myself smart but not very confident, though I am a real man (I'm real and I'm a man), i view everybody as my equal and like everybody I just want love and happiness. So are you saying no woman will be attracted to me because I don't exhibit confidence?


No, what I was saying is that men who view women as their equal are typically intelligent AND confident. You don't have to have both but one trait is usually there. You have the intelligence part....awesome. Confidence can be gained but stupid is forever. You're doing just fine.


----------



## Deejo

Please stay on topic. This thread is about what men think of women, not what women think of men or what women think men think of women ...


----------



## Amplexor

Deejo said:


> Please stay on topic. This thread is about what men think of women, not what women think of men or what women think men think of women ...


"The red zone is for loading and unloading only!.........."


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Deejo said:


> Please stay on topic. This thread is about what men think of women, not what women think of men or what women think men think of women ...


Ahem, NOW it's off topic? :scratchhead:


----------



## Trenton

Deejo said:


> Please stay on topic. This thread is about what men think of women, not what women think of men or what women think men think of women ...


Yes, I'm starting to see how the three are completely unrelated and now get why porn is completely on topic.


----------



## morituri

Does this mean "no ladies comments allowed"?


----------



## Kobo

morituri said:


> Does this mean "no ladies comments allowed"?


No it means Deejo knows where thisd thread is going.

Trenton will put up the ole Women's Lib fight

Ian Will expound on his greatness

TRBE will ask her husband if he agrees with "this" (Of course he doesn't)

Conrad will make a point in less than 4 words

Kobo will ask pointed questions that can only be answered one way and won't move forward until it's answered correctly

Is Syrum still here? If so , she'll talk about the plight of the single mother in Libya

Thank God Susan2010 isn't still here.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Laurae1967 said:


> I've heard it said that men are in "awe" of women, and that women have such power over men.
> 
> What do men think of women? I'm curious to hear the good, the bad and the ugly.


Sorry, but this just seems like a silly question. Tell me who the woman is, and then I can (maybe) tell you what I think of her.


----------



## Trenton

Kobo said:


> No it means Deejo knows where thisd thread is going.
> 
> Trenton will put up the ole Women's Lib fight
> 
> Ian Will expound on his greatness
> 
> TRBE will ask her husband if he agrees with "this" (Of course he doesn't)
> 
> Conrad will make a point in less than 4 words
> 
> Kobo will ask pointed questions that can only be answered one way and won't move forward until it's answered correctly
> 
> Is Syrum still here? If so , she'll talk about the plight of the single mother in Libya
> 
> Thank God Susan2010 isn't still here.


:rofl:


----------



## YupItsMe

Therealbrighteyes said:


> No, you're pretty one dimensional. All of us were trying to see you in 3D. We finally gave up.


I was thinking delusional with a clearly unwarranted abundance of self confidence and the sheltered views of a caveman but your label is close enough for my taste.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Kobo said:


> No it means Deejo knows where thisd thread is going.
> 
> Trenton will put up the ole Women's Lib fight
> 
> Ian Will expound on his greatness
> 
> TRBE will ask her husband if he agrees with "this" (Of course he doesn't)
> 
> Conrad will make a point in less than 4 words
> 
> Kobo will ask pointed questions that can only be answered one way and won't move forward until it's answered correctly
> 
> Is Syrum still here? If so , she'll talk about the plight of the single mother in Libya
> 
> Thank God Susan2010 isn't still here.


Kobo, fwiw, he doesn't agree with me. He reads himself and often times disagrees with my assertions. He thinks Deejo makes solid points, as does NG, Halien and Entropy. 
What he has a problem with is generalizations as in "all men look at porn" and "all women like shiny objects". He knows these statements to be untrue and doesn't like black and white thinking. He respects the men here who see in shades of gray.
When I asked him the question "What do men really think of women?" his response was "It depends on the woman".


----------



## Kobo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Kobo, fwiw, he doesn't agree with me. He reads himself and often times disagrees with my assertions. He thinks Deejo makes solid points, as does NG, Halien and Entropy.
> What he has a problem with is generalizations as in "all men look at porn" and "all women like shiny objects". He knows these statements to be untrue and doesn't like black and white thinking. He respects the men here who see in shades of gray.
> When I asked him the question "What do men really think of women?" his response was "It depends on the woman".


Sometimes you got to let a joke be a joke...


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Kobo said:


> Sometimes you got to let a joke be a joke...


I don't know you well enough to know if you were joking. 
Didn't want you to think he was a yes man with me, more of a "are you f-ing kidding me, TRBE" kind of guy. Keeps things interesting.


----------



## Deejo

For the record, I like shiny objects, and ... shiny women, but I don't necessarily associate women as objects ... and ...

there's porn in this thread? 

I like both Trenton's and TRBE's posts, it's like wrestling. Not like the sexualized jello wrestling fantasy that TRBE often alludes to ... more like the sports entertainment wrestling featuring The Big Show and Triple H.

It's invigorating, sometimes you get zuplexed, but hopefully nobody really gets hurt.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Deejo said:


> For the record, I like shiny objects, and ... shiny women, but I don't necessarily associate women as objects ... and ...
> 
> there's porn in this thread?
> 
> I like both Trenton's and TRBE's posts, it's like wrestling. Not like the sexualized jello wrestling fantasy that TRBE often alludes to ... more like the sports entertainment wrestling featuring The Big Show and Triple H.
> 
> It's invigorating, sometimes you get zuplexed, but hopefully nobody really gets hurt.


Just call me Chyna. Oh wait, she's in porn now. Who are we wrestling Deejo?


----------



## YupItsMe

nice777guy said:


> easy to beat up on some of the lighter threads. So why bother? If you were above this conversation, why lower yourself?
> 
> Thanks for sharing!


I find your sarcastic questions and exclamation points moderately offensive but for the sake of mutual learning and in an effort to get to know you better, Ill answer them. 

1. I dont like idiotic falsehoods to take root (it leads to mistakes)
2. "Men are in awe of women" is an idiotic falsehood
3. There is a well known exception that I proudly present as #4
4. Only loser men lacking self esteem are in awe of women (man up)
5. I want misinformed but curious, interested, sincere women to learn reality and falsehood so they can make better decisions and comprehend what they seek to know
6. Its your opinion its a lighter thread (I disagree with you)
7. I consider myself a serious, sincere, deeply interested member of this forum
8. This thread topic interested me at first for the purposes of correcting the inaccurate thinking representated in the OP.
9. My interest deepened when a particular member was over the top in representing his absurd opinions as representative of at least most men by starting his opinions that I disagree with totally as "We..." He does not speak for me. I speak for me.

Here are a few bugaboos just for you

10. I consider my posts carefully of which you misinterpreted several. 
11. Nice guys arent sarcastic
12. Nice guys dont put exclamation points after their sarcasm
13. Referring to yourself as a "nice guy" and then doing unnice things like sarcasm and exclamation points is problematic because its confusing and inaccurate like all self flattery 
14. "Trust me" is another form a self flattery I offer for your consideration to shed some light on how silly and inaccurate self flattery looks to mature adults since you didnt catch that when nice guy popped into your head as a good idea. See its cool when someone else says something nice about you. Its weird and highly suspect when you say it yourself especially when you dont always live up to it after advertising the idea so boldly.


----------



## Trenton

Deejo said:


> For the record, I like shiny objects, and ... shiny women, but I don't necessarily associate women as objects ... and ...
> 
> there's porn in this thread?
> 
> I like both Trenton's and TRBE's posts, it's like wrestling. Not like the sexualized jello wrestling fantasy that TRBE often alludes to ... more like the sports entertainment wrestling featuring The Big Show and Triple H.
> 
> It's invigorating, sometimes you get zuplexed, but hopefully nobody really gets hurt.


You're not a chauvinistic jerk who thinks every woman wants her butt slapped and your own needs should supersede that of women like Conrad & BBW so why do you play one on TAM? Reading you is like reading the bible...I'm always thinking W T F G?!

Women and men are awe inspiring, people are. Deal with it.


----------



## Trenton

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Just call me Chyna. Oh wait, she's in porn now. Who are we wrestling Deejo?


Wrestling is how we roll brighteyes, we don't need anything in particular to wrestle with, we do it for the show. See what he's saying?


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Trenton said:


> Wrestling is how we roll brighteyes, we don't need anything in particular to wrestle with, we do it for the show. See what he's saying?


Nope, gotta know who your opponent is. That way you can study their moves, their strengths and their weaknesses. Debating is like wrestling. You just don't go in without any background information. 
It's easy to debate someone who lives in darkness. To them, the world is dark. All you have to do to disprove their theory is flip the switch.


----------



## Trenton

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Nope, gotta know who your opponent is. That way you can study their moves, their strengths and their weaknesses. Debating is like wrestling. You just don't go in without any background information.
> It's easy to debate someone who lives in darkness. To them, the world is dark. All you have to do to disprove their theory is flip the switch.


We're so deep at this point that I think we're at risk of drowning. :rofl:


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Trenton said:


> We're so deep at this point that I think we're at risk of drowning. :rofl:


Not sure I understand you on this. The darkness was people who see things as black and white and as truth, instead of taking a peek outside and seeing reality. 
Also, what's with the dig at Deejo? :scratchhead: I think he's one of the most rational here. Yes, he is often tongue and cheek (as we often are) but I in no way think he is a pig, far from it.
Please explain. I'm baffled.


----------



## Trenton

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Not sure I understand you on this. The darkness was people who see things as black and white and as truth, instead of taking a peek outside and seeing reality.
> Also, what's with the dig at Deejo? :scratchhead: I think he's one of the most rational here. Yes, he is often tongue and cheek (as we often are) but I in no way think he is a pig, far from it.
> Please explain. I'm baffled.


I think he always plays to both sides hence never having to take a side which is lame.

I got your whole darkness thing but you missed my whole...you're too deep for me at this point thing?

I don't know. Maybe we should just wrestle?


----------



## MEM2020

All of the below are generalizations:

The Great: Without women life would not be worth living. They are capable of bringing out the best in a man. 

The good:
- Women are great nurturers and kind/considerate to the very young and very old. More so by far than men. 
- Very observant and good at reading/using body language.
- Fun and playful 
- Focused on making their environment attractive/beautiful
- Sexy wondrous and at times magical creatures

The bad:
- Women's desire to create a beautiful environment sometimes overpowers financial common sense
- They often use body langauge and tone of voice to over power their male partners in a slow, but relentless manner
- They are capable of being very cruel to grown males who don't "measure up" to their standards

The ugly:
- Often they terribly misuse their sexual powers in marriage. Especially when married to a man who does not believe forced celibacy is a valid basis for divorce. 
- Often simultaneously hypersensitive to the needs of their children while often coldly indifferent to the suffering of their male partner.
- For every physically abusive man, there are many, many emotionally abusive women. 



Laurae1967 said:


> I've heard it said that men are in "awe" of women, and that women have such power over men.
> 
> What do men think of women? I'm curious to hear the good, the bad and the ugly.


----------



## Trenton

MEM11363 said:


> All of the below are generalizations:
> 
> The Great: Without women life would not be worth living. They are capable of bringing out the best in a man.
> 
> The good:
> - Women are great nurturers and kind/considerate to the very young and very old. More so by far than men.
> - Very observant and good at reading/using body language.
> - Fun and playful
> - Focused on making their environment attractive/beautiful
> - Sexy wondrous and at times magical creatures
> 
> The bad:
> - Women's desire to create a beautiful environment sometimes overpowers financial common sense
> - They often use body langauge and tone of voice to over power their male partners in a slow, but relentless manner
> - They are capable of being very cruel to grown males who don't "measure up" to their standards
> 
> The ugly:
> - Often they terribly misuse their sexual powers in marriage. Especially when married to a man who does not believe forced celibacy is a valid basis for divorce.
> - Often simultaneously hypersensitive to the needs of their children while often coldly indifferent to the suffering of their male partner.
> - For every physically abusive man, there are many, many emotionally abusive women.


So are you in awe of women?

Come on childbirth is pretty awe inspiring, even for the woman...


----------



## MEM2020

All 3 kids - no pain meds. Nothing. Just a bed in a birthing center. Wouldn't you be at least a little bit afraid of someone who is that tough and that determined? 




Trenton said:


> So are you in awe of women?
> 
> Come on childbirth is pretty awe inspiring, even for the woman...


----------



## that_girl

IanIronwood said:


> And upon what authority do you base this judgement? Please explain the logic underlying that conclusion, because it doesn't fit the available facts.


What facts?

Tell me how porn is natural and normal.


----------



## Deejo

Trenton said:


> I think he always plays to both sides hence never having to take a side which is lame.
> 
> I got your whole darkness thing but you missed my whole...you're too deep for me at this point thing?
> 
> I don't know. Maybe we should just wrestle?


I don't think you can possibly fathom how much I enjoy not communicating with you. :smcowboy:


----------



## that_girl

Childbirth was not awe-inspiring for me! LOLLL


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

that_girl said:


> What facts?
> 
> Tell me how porn is natural and normal.


Gawd, did you REALLY go there? Brace yourself for a dissertation that lasts 48 paragraphs and is eventually cut off because of space. He will start with cave wall drawings of sexual images from 6 million years ago and just go from there. My suggestion? Smoke weed and drink wine. That's the only way you will make it out alive.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Deejo said:


> I don't think you can possibly fathom how much I enjoy not communicating with you. :smcowboy:


Okay, maybe I am sloooooow tonight but what the hell is going on? I thought you and T got along famously and now she goes verbal Rambo on your butt and you end your response with a smiley dude donning a cowboy hat instead of a flaming devil.
The apocalypse is upon us. Screw 2012, our doom is sealed. All that's left is reading Wood's response to That Girl's question and my brain can finally ooze out through my nostrils.
It's been nice knowing you all.


----------



## Deejo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I thought you and T got along famously and now she goes verbal Rambo on your butt and you end your response with a smiley dude donning a cowboy hat instead of a flaming devil.
> The apocalypse is upon us. Screw 2012, our doom is sealed. All


We do get along famously.

I switched the smiley to play my John Wayne side as opposed to my John Holmes side.


----------



## that_girl

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Gawd, did you REALLY go there? Brace yourself for a dissertation that lasts 48 paragraphs and is eventually cut off because of space. He will start with cave wall drawings of sexual images from 6 million years ago and just go from there. My suggestion? Smoke weed and drink wine. That's the only way you will make it out alive.


:rofl: Not that I care for the explanation.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Deejo said:


> We do get along famously.
> 
> I switched the smiley to play my John Wayne side as opposed to my John Holmes side.


It doesn't sound like she respects you. Time to man up and manipulate her mind.
Not sure either Wayne or Holmes will work. One was a guy named Marion who played a tough guy persona and the other was an AIDS afflicted porn star. Both inauthentic. Trenton wouldn't be interested in either.
Hey, do you have any shiny objects or 1/10th the charisma of Johnny Depp?


----------



## Catherine602

This is interesting --- only a woman would ask such a question. My question is who cares. Does it make any difference what men really really thInk? Of what use is the information. By asking you are implying that what men think of women is more important than what women think of themselves. A man's thoughts don't make women what they are, biology, temperament and experience does a nice job. 

Besides you can predict to the word who will post what. The rigid attachment avoidant men will fall all over themselves telling us little ladies how utterly unimportant women are - all the while longing to be loved and connected to one. Secure men will have varied and unique responses. 

These responses are more about the men themselves nothing about what men think about women. There is no average man - each man is governed by his experiences, biology, and temperament just like women and what he thinks about women is reflected in that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kobo

Trenton said:


> I think he always plays to both sides hence never having to take a side which is lame.


I hope you soon understand that thinking that there are sides or that someone has to pick a side does not lead to real conversation. You can look to D.C. to find people who have chosen sides and have placed us in the position we are now in.


----------



## Laurae1967

WOW! This thread has certainly taken on a life of it's own. It's really interesting to read some of the angry posts. How dare I suggest that I've heard men are in awe of women? Gawd, what balls!


----------



## Halien

Catherine602 said:


> This is interesting --- only a woman would ask such a question. My question is who cares. Does it make any difference what men really really thInk? Of what use is the information. By asking you are implying that what men think of women is more important than what women think of themselves. A man's thoughts don't make women what they are, biology, temperament and experience does a nice job.
> 
> Besides you can predict to the word who will post what. The rigid attachment avoidant men will fall all over themselves telling us little ladies how utterly unimportant women are - all the while longing to be loved and connected to one. Secure men will have varied and unique responses.
> 
> These responses are more about the men themselves nothing about what men think about women. There is no average man - each man is governed by his experiences, biology, and temperament just like women and what he thinks about women is reflected in that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Catherine,
I always enjoy your posts, due to your insight. I do think there is one additional factor that influences our responces, other than experiences, biology and temperament. Its choice. Men and women can share almost identical experiences, but one might choose to look at the positives, while another might choose a jaded view. What do you think?

One poster said that only insecure men are in awe of women. Maybe that applies to a majority of men, but I disagree in general. I don't want to become a bitter, shrivelled old man. I choose to be in awe of women, and a guy doesn't have to go far to see reasons. Look at the bond that typically exists between a mother and her children. Studies even show that men rest more easy in a crisis if a woman is in charge because we make the assumption that she is willing to be selfless in her leadership. I think people sometimes make the connection that being in awe of women demotes men to the subbasement level, or maybe it just implies that the man who does so demotes himself. Shoot, my wife only has to listen to me sing in the shower to deduce that I put on a pretty good show of being in awe of myself sometimes (although it is a show).


----------



## nice777guy

Speaking on behalf of my balls -- you people are all nuts!


----------



## okeydokie

i will add, i think women over complicate TAM threads


----------



## WhereAmI

okeydokie said:


> i will add, i think women over complicate TAM threads


Did you just call me fat!?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kobo

okeydokie said:


> i will add, i think women over complicate TAM threads


and us men over simplify. It's all good, we compliment each other.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Halien said:


> Catherine,
> I always enjoy your posts, due to your insight. I do think there is one additional factor that influences our responces, other than experiences, biology and temperament. Its choice. Men and women can share almost identical experiences, but one might choose to look at the positives, while another might choose a jaded view. What do you think?
> 
> One poster said that only insecure men are in awe of women. Maybe that applies to a majority of men, but I disagree in general. I don't want to become a bitter, shrivelled old man. I choose to be in awe of women, and a guy doesn't have to go far to see reasons. Look at the bond that typically exists between a mother and her children. Studies even show that men rest more easy in a crisis if a woman is in charge because we make the assumption that she is willing to be selfless in her leadership. I think people sometimes make the connection that being in awe of women demotes men to the subbasement level, or maybe it just implies that the man who does so demotes himself. Shoot, my wife only has to listen to me sing in the shower to deduce that I put on a pretty good show of being in awe of myself sometimes (although it is a show).


God made Halien. Destroyed the mold. The end.


----------



## Catherine602

Halien said:


> Catherine,
> I always enjoy your posts, due to your insight. I do think there is one additional factor that influences our responces, other than experiences, biology and temperament. Its choice. Men and women can share almost identical experiences, but one might choose to look at the positives, while another might choose a jaded view. What do you think?
> 
> One poster said that only insecure men are in awe of women. Maybe that applies to a majority of men, but I disagree in general. I don't want to become a bitter, shrivelled old man. I choose to be in awe of women, and a guy doesn't have to go far to see reasons. Look at the bond that typically exists between a mother and her children. Studies even show that men rest more easy in a crisis if a woman is in charge because we make the assumption that she is willing to be selfless in her leadership. I think people sometimes make the connection that being in awe of women demotes men to the subbasement level, or maybe it just implies that the man who does so demotes himself. Shoot, my wife only has to listen to me sing in the shower to deduce that I put on a pretty good show of being in awe of myself sometimes (although it is a show).


Thanks H - I didn't think of that but it is the most important of all in everything we do. How could I have forgotten. 

I choose to hold men in awe too. I am not mousy or a simpering weak woman and i love being a woman and the uniquness of women but I am in awe of what men are. To me they are fascinating even the annoying ones. The way they think, smell, their raw physical strength, even puny ones, the penis is so beautiful to me, the sex drive is a living testament to hope and rejuvenation. The best of all is their capacity to love a woman.

I really really enjoy talking to men and I like being around them. I work with mostly men and i love the environment and energy. They compete to win but they respect anyone who can consistently best them. That is not a characteristic i find in women. I would rather work with men, they are far more resilient and less touchy (figuratively). 

The only type of men I have a strong dislike for are the haters. They are not always obvious but they are invariably hateful, destructive, controlling and try to spread their toxicity to other men and women.

All men share the unique characteristic of maleness, I am not sure I can articulate exactly what it is but I know it when I see it. That is the only generalization that I can make. With all of the problems I have had in my life involving men - my father, a predatory man, my experiences as a young girl with my sister when older men approaching and commenting about our bodies that abruptly ruined my enjoyment of our summers, it was men who helped me to heal mostly my husband. He is a good nurturing man and he helped me heal and be happy. 

Are there any other women who would like to turn this thread around. What do women think of men? In a way it is an unanswerable question - maybe. Halien has it right what do you think and what do you chose to think in contrast to your personal experience. What do you think of the responses of the men. Some are very funny and ribald and of course very male. ;}.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## IanIronwood

Kobo said:


> No it means Deejo knows where thisd thread is going.
> 
> Trenton will put up the ole Women's Lib fight
> 
> Ian Will expound on his greatness
> 
> TRBE will ask her husband if he agrees with "this" (Of course he doesn't)
> 
> Conrad will make a point in less than 4 words
> 
> Kobo will ask pointed questions that can only be answered one way and won't move forward until it's answered correctly
> 
> Is Syrum still here? If so , she'll talk about the plight of the single mother in Libya
> 
> Thank God Susan2010 isn't still here.


Ahem. It's not that I'm expounding on my greatness. I'm merely revealing it. A subtle but important point.


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> No, you're pretty one dimensional. All of us were trying to see you in 3D. We finally gave up.


Your loss, Toots.


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Kobo, fwiw, he doesn't agree with me. He reads himself and often times disagrees with my assertions. He thinks Deejo makes solid points, as does NG, Halien and Entropy.
> What he has a problem with is generalizations as in "all men look at porn" and "all women like shiny objects". He knows these statements to be untrue and doesn't like black and white thinking. He respects the men here who see in shades of gray.
> When I asked him the question "What do men really think of women?" his response was "It depends on the woman".


I would say that while they might be untrue in specific cases, they are, indeed, true in the aggregate. You are an individual . . . but if you collect enough individuals in one place, patterns emerge. If that wasn't true, then marketers couldn't plan an advertising campaign.

So "men" in aggregate behave a certain way. So do "women". You can break it down demographically if you want more specifics, but when speaking in generalities that kind of misses the point. Men tend to behave in a certain way. Women tend to behave another way.

"The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong . . . but that's the way to bet."

Anon.


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Just call me Chyna. Oh wait, she's in porn now. Who are we wrestling Deejo?


Her porn sucks. And it doesn't sell very well. She doesn't look enthusiastic, and she's clearly just doing it for the money. If you like celebrity videos, fine, but great porn it ain't.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

IanIronwood said:


> Her porn sucks. And it doesn't sell very well. She doesn't look enthusiastic, and she's clearly just doing it for the money. If you like celebrity videos, fine, but great porn it ain't.


TRBE's point to her post: name a wrestler that now works in porn. Could only think of one.

Ian's point to his post: Critic the merits of her work.

Hey Roger Ebert, I was joking.


----------



## IanIronwood

that_girl said:


> What facts?
> 
> Tell me how porn is natural and normal.


a) porn ("art intended to elicit an erotic response") has been around at least as long as art itself, and likely arose at the same time as human speech. Plenty of archaeological documentation of this.

b) porn is present in every human culture at every time period in history and prehistory. 

c) any cultural device that is omnipresent in all human culture is, by definition, a natural human universal. Porn is natural.

d) The only observable problems associated with porn have been due to its prohibition by conservative elements (usually religious in nature) in a given society; in societies where porn is not prescribed, it flourishes as a common adult artistic endeavor along side dance, poetry, and graphic arts. Therefore porn is normal. Q.E.D.


----------



## IanIronwood

Catherine602 said:


> This is interesting --- only a woman would ask such a question. My question is who cares. Does it make any difference what men really really thInk? Of what use is the information.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think I understand you a lot better now. Thank you.


----------



## IanIronwood

Halien said:


> Studies even show that men rest more easy in a crisis if a woman is in charge because we make the assumption that she is willing to be selfless in her leadership.


Can you cite this study, please?



Halien said:


> I think people sometimes make the connection that being in awe of women demotes men to the subbasement level, or maybe it just implies that the man who does so demotes himself. Shoot, my wife only has to listen to me sing in the shower to deduce that I put on a pretty good show of being in awe of myself sometimes (although it is a show).


A man who is in awe of women _without also being in awe of his own masculinity_ is on the road to self-loathing. That's an important distinction. I am in awe of women to the extent that they often exceed my expectations.

That is not always a positive thing.


----------



## Halien

IanIronwood said:


> Can you cite this study, please?
> 
> 
> 
> .


Wellesley College did a pretty formal white paper called 'the Female Leadership Advantage', if I remember correctly, which was featured in Leadership Quarterly. Google "Male versus Female Leadership" for more references to studies. It was also a key point in 'Making Great Leaders' seminar that I recently attended. My first module, as a mentor in a Fortune 50 company, is on Diversity and Mutual Respect. With new supervisors, especially younger ones, the key starting point is to teach that leadership is not based on physical dominance, but on internal traits.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Halien said:


> Wellesley College did a pretty formal white paper called 'the Female Leadership Advantage', if I remember correctly, which was featured in Leadership Quarterly. Google "Male versus Female Leadership" for more references to studies. It was also a key point in 'Making Great Leaders' seminar that I recently attended. My first module, as a mentor in a Fortune 50 company, is on Diversity and Mutual Respect. With new supervisors, especially younger ones, the key starting point is to teach that leadership is not based on physical dominance, but on internal traits.


You do know that you just opened the flood gates of hell citing a study from one of the sister colleges and pro-feminist university Wellesley, right? Any chance you have a study from say Westpoint or some other male centric university, otherwise the study will be tossed like yesterday's garbage.....sadly.


----------



## that_girl

:rofl:


----------



## IanIronwood

Halien said:


> Wellesley College did a pretty formal white paper called 'the Female Leadership Advantage', if I remember correctly, which was featured in Leadership Quarterly. Google "Male versus Female Leadership" for more references to studies. It was also a key point in 'Making Great Leaders' seminar that I recently attended. My first module, as a mentor in a Fortune 50 company, is on Diversity and Mutual Respect. With new supervisors, especially younger ones, the key starting point is to teach that leadership is not based on physical dominance, but on internal traits.


All right, while it was a well-put-together study, it also only examines a few aspects of leadership within one basic context (modern corporate enterprise) as opposed to longitudinally establishing comparative advantages and disadvantages among a wide variety of leadership contexts and situations. Which means that women may offer some advantages in corporate leadership, but that statement was highly qualified even within the paper itself. Plenty of room for continued research. I would be eager to see a similar study for a wider variety of leadership roles, i.e. military, familial, political, social, etc. as well as see the variables involved (crisis v. non-crisis, planning v. improvisation, disparate or cohesive grouping, contentious or supportive grouping, short and long terms, and a variety of group sizes).

But good call. I don't think women lack leadership abilities at all -- but I do like to challenge broad-ranging statements and "I read that . . . " statements. This is why. Thanks.


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You do know that you just opened the flood gates of hell citing a study from one of the sister colleges and pro-feminist university Wellesley, right? Any chance you have a study from say Westpoint or some other male centric university, otherwise the study will be tossed like yesterday's garbage.....sadly.


Not at all. I didn't point any of that out (although the fact that you did suggests that perhaps some bias is evident . . . glad you brought it up). I looked at the study on its merits, and while I found it wanting, I did agree that it had value.


----------



## that_girl

IanIronwood said:


> a) porn ("art intended to elicit an erotic response") has been around at least as long as art itself, and likely arose at the same time as human speech. Plenty of archaeological documentation of this.
> 
> b) porn is present in every human culture at every time period in history and prehistory.
> 
> c) any cultural device that is omnipresent in all human culture is, by definition, a natural human universal. Porn is natural.
> 
> d) The only observable problems associated with porn have been due to its prohibition by conservative elements (usually religious in nature) in a given society; in societies where porn is not prescribed, it flourishes as a common adult artistic endeavor along side dance, poetry, and graphic arts. Therefore porn is normal. Q.E.D.


I don't see porn being natural. Sex is very natural. Watching other people eff is not natural. Go get your own sex!


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

IanIronwood said:


> Not at all. I didn't point any of that out (although the fact that you did suggests that perhaps some bias is evident . . . glad you brought it up). I looked at the study on its merits, and while I found it wanting, I did agree that it had value.


Ian, I was not referring to you at all. I was referring to others here who I will not name. Sorry I didn't make that distinction. We certainly don't agree on much but from what you say about your wife, its obvious you do respect women.


----------



## IanIronwood

that_girl said:


> I don't see porn being natural. Sex is very natural. Watching other people eff is not natural. Go get your own sex!


The vast majority of humanity would disagree. Exhibitionism and Voyeurism are present in every human culture. Just because your particular cultural bias finds it distasteful doesn't make it untrue.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

IanIronwood said:


> The vast majority of humanity would disagree. Exhibitionism and Voyeurism are present in every human culture. Just because your particular cultural bias finds it distasteful doesn't make it untrue.


Okay I totally have to agree with you on this. Yeah, I know....the gravitational pull just stopped.


----------



## okeydokie

in keeping with the original thread:

i think women like to argue......alot


----------



## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Ian, I was not referring to you at all. I was referring to others here who I will not name. Sorry I didn't make that distinction. We certainly don't agree on much but from what you say about your wife, its obvious you do respect women.


Thank you. Some women equate posters who are aggressively pro-Man as being automatically anti-Woman. I'm not. I do respect women. Both in the retail and wholesale sense. Some of the most important people in my life are women. 

But respecting them isn't the same as agreeing with the status quo, or deferring to them incessantly. The male-female dynamic continues to be in a state of flux, and will be for some time. And I am all about the equality of the sexes . . . but that means equality (accounting for essential differences) across the entire spectrum, not just when it's in women's best interest.

But I appreciate the clarification.


----------



## Catherine602

IanIronwood said:


> I think I understand you a lot better now. Thank you.


I assure you that you cannot begin to understand me in any way even marginally. It would be like a 6 year old child thinking that he/she finally understands a parent. If that sounds arrogant, well you can take it because you dish it out in large doses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

IanIronwood said:


> And I am all about the equality of the sexes . . . but that means equality (accounting for essential differences) across the entire spectrum, not just when it's in women's best interest.


As am I. You can't cherry pick what you want.


----------



## AFEH

WhereAmI said:


> Did you just call me fat!?!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl:


----------



## AFEH

Catherine602 said:


> This is interesting --- only a woman would ask such a question. *My question is who cares. Does it make any difference what men really really thInk?* Of what use is the information. By asking you are implying that what men think of women is more important than what women think of themselves. A man's thoughts don't make women what they are, biology, temperament and experience does a nice job.
> 
> Besides you can predict to the word who will post what. The rigid attachment avoidant men will fall all over themselves telling us little ladies how utterly unimportant women are - all the while longing to be loved and connected to one. Secure men will have varied and unique responses.
> 
> These responses are more about the men themselves nothing about what men think about women. There is no average man - each man is governed by his experiences, biology, and temperament just like women and what he thinks about women is reflected in that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


“No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."


It’s by John Donne, in which he explores the interconnectedness of mankind. But of course it doesn’t apply to you because you are a woman


----------



## AFEH

I’m in awe of women when they don’t fight fair. When they make up their own rules as they go along and if a rule used but 10 minutes ago no longer works, it’s changed for a different and often opposite one. I’m in awe of them when an argument they used last week to support a point has absolutely no validity and is total rubbish this week. How on earth they keep track of and tabs on themselves is way beyond my imagination so much that I don’t think they do. They just “make it up” as they go along.

“Rules, they’re for other people, not for me!” is their motto. I’m in awe of their memory that remembers in minutiae detail a small offence from 25 years ago that’s grown out of all proportion and thrown into a row today to totally and utterly change the subject and throw a man off the scent. Yet an event of just last week cannot be remembered. I’m in awe not only of how they can do that but how they can get away with it as well!

And I’m in awe of how we just love them all the same and think the world would be a sorry place without their femininity, their very feminine ways no matter how they claim they’re not. I’m in awe of how they do that as well.


“Feminine? No not me!”. :rofl:


----------



## IanIronwood

Catherine602 said:


> I assure you that you cannot begin to understand me in any way even marginally. It would be like a 6 year old child thinking that he/she finally understands a parent. If that sounds arrogant, well you can take it because you dish it out in large doses.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, I can take it. And, like an understanding parent, I know from whence it springs and don't take offense. 

Nor, alas, will you likely ever understand me and my perspective. But hope springs eternal.


----------



## IanIronwood

AFEH said:


> I’m in awe of women when they don’t fight fair. When they make up their own rules as they go along and if a rule used but 10 minutes ago no longer works, it’s changed for a different and often opposite one. I’m in awe of them when an argument they used last week to support a point has absolutely no validity and is total rubbish this week. How on earth they keep track of and tabs on themselves is way beyond my imagination so much that I don’t think they do. They just “make it up” as they go along.
> 
> “Rules, they’re for other people, not for me!” is their motto. I’m in awe of their memory that remembers in minutiae detail a small offence from 25 years ago that’s grown out of all proportion and thrown into a row today to totally and utterly change the subject and throw a man off the scent. I’m in awe not only of how they can do that but how they can get away with it as well!
> 
> And I’m in awe of how we just love them all the same and think the world would be a sorry place without their femininity, their very feminine ways no matter how they claim they’re not. I’m in awe of how they do that as well.
> 
> 
> “Feminine? No not me!”. :rofl:



"I get asked all the time how I write women [in his romance novels] so well, and I answer that I write them exactly as I would write a man . . . and then just deduct reason and accountability." -- Jack Nicholson, _As Good As It Gets_


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

It's always interesting to see the kind of responses you get to questions like this and completely predicable. It attracts the bitters, that's for sure. Then you have people like Halien who has a positive attitude and a great life. It is reflected in his posts. 
He wins.


----------



## that_girl

Therealbrighteyes said:


> It's always interesting to see the kind of responses you get to questions like this and completely predicable. It attracts the bitters, that's for sure. Then you have people like Halien who has a positive attitude and a great life. It is reflected in his posts.
> He wins.




I think so too. Although, I know plenty of lame women so I get where some men are coming from. Not to mention if they had a bad mother....oh lord...


----------



## that_girl

AFEH said:


> And I’m in awe of how we just love them all the same and think the world would be a sorry place without their femininity, their very feminine ways no matter how they claim they’re not. I’m in awe of how they do that as well.
> 
> 
> “Feminine? No not me!”. :rofl:


The older I get, the more feminine I enjoy being


----------



## Kobo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> It's always interesting to see the kind of responses you get to questions like this and completely predicable. It attracts the bitters, that's for sure. Then you have people like Halien who has a positive attitude and a great life. It is reflected in his posts.
> He wins.


Do you think the men on this board can't tell the "bitter" women on this board from the ones full of confidence in themselves and their relationship from the ones that use every post to sound off on their hurting caused by some man at one time or another? Yes it is always interesting to see who's in the Men's clubhouse telling the men which opinion wins or loses.


----------



## that_girl

I need popcorn for this thread too...


----------



## AFEH

Therealbrighteyes said:


> It's always interesting to see the kind of responses you get to questions like this and completely predicable. It attracts the bitters, that's for sure. Then you have people like Halien who has a positive attitude and a great life. It is reflected in his posts.
> He wins.


Ha! Now that's exceedingly feminine!


----------



## Acorn

I am generally in awe at how patient my wife is with the kids, especially during the "Why? Why?" stage... I am also in awe at her perception of time when I am busy at work and ask for the 2-minute version of a given situation.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Kobo said:


> Do you think the men on this board can't tell the "bitter" women on this board from the ones full of confidence in themselves and their relationship from the ones that use every post to sound off on their hurting caused by some man at one time or another? Yes it is always interesting to see who's in the Men's clubhouse telling the men which opinion wins or loses.


I didn't say it was an opinion, I said it was the attitude. Big difference. His is such that he doesn't revel in hostility and anger and his attitude is contagious....something I deeply appreciate and has helped me tremendously.
You are entitled to your opinion about the women who are bitter as I am about the men. Peace.


----------



## Kobo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I didn't say it was an opinion, I said it was the attitude. Big difference. His is such that he doesn't revel in hostility and anger and his attitude is contagious....something I deeply appreciate and has helped me tremendously.
> You are entitled to your opinion about the women who are bitter as I am about the men. Peace.


There is no difference when you say his attitude reflects in his posts(opinion). Which to me sounds like you are in agreement with his opinion. Your post also used Halien as the rival to "the bitters" which would mean they have a differing opinion from him and you. Leading to if you don't have an opinion I agree with then you're one of the "bitters" and you 'lose". Simple Math.


----------



## AFEH

I’m in awe about how my wife put a meal cooked from fresh ingredients on the table. JUST ABOUT EVERY DAY FOR NEARLY 40 YEARS. How on earth does a woman do that? How CAN they be that consistent? I defy any man to do that. I certainly couldn’t. And what about that washing and ironing. And never ever without a clean shirt etc. Again, how CAN they be that consistent. I’m in awe of it all. As a man I simply couldn’t do it. And what about 18 hours in labour. Without ONE complaint. These things are truly AWESOME!


----------



## AFEH

that_girl said:


> The older I get, the more feminine I enjoy being


Good for you. Femininity is to be enjoyed! By all concerned! The light and the dark!


----------



## Halien

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You do know that you just opened the flood gates of hell citing a study from one of the sister colleges and pro-feminist university Wellesley, right? Any chance you have a study from say Westpoint or some other male centric university, otherwise the study will be tossed like yesterday's garbage.....sadly.


I think Google can provide such manna, but I only wrote about what I admire in women based on my own experience in leadership, from the factory floor supervisor up to becoming a global technology platform manager. The report from Wellesly is only one of several that is referenced in magazines I receive at work, and I really don't want to get involved with such a discussion of comparative size of balls, when it is far more statistically likely that the typical leadership scenario we will see in daily life is a moderate level crisis in the workplace or a weather emergency. Look, my comment was only about what I admire in women, and not at all meant to be an opening gambit in a debate. 

One of my direct reports is a West Point grad, a Lt. Colonel in the reserves, who recently completed his 2nd tour in Iraq. His wife was from his same graduating class at West Point, and her career, which both of them admit, took off much faster than his. West Point has apparently moved on, past old stereotypes of general leadership qualities. Most of the recent publications that the colonel has shown me indicate that it is role-based, or situational-based in determining gender success in leadership.

Put me in a situation where a crapload of cars are mangled in a massive crash, and you betcha' I'm gonna want to see a guy in charge who can peel away a windshield. or carry a person to safety. But when it comes to handling the lawsuits, seems to be an indication that people think women will be more likely to assure that its fair. I admire that. I'm awed by it.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

AFEH said:


> I’m in awe about how my wife put a meal cooked from fresh ingredients on the table. JUST ABOUT EVERY DAY FOR NEARLY 40 YEARS. How on earth does a woman do that? How CAN they be that consistent? I defy any man to do that. I certainly couldn’t. And what about that washing and ironing. And never ever without a clean shirt etc. Again, how CAN they be that consistent. I’m in awe of it all. As a man I simply couldn’t do it. And what about 18 hours in labour. Without ONE complaint. These things are truly AWESOME!


Bob, now THIS was a fantastic post! She sounded lovely in that department.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Kobo said:


> There is no difference when you say his attitude reflects in his posts(opinion). Which to me sounds like you are in agreement with his opinion. Your post also used Halien as the rival to "the bitters" which would mean they have a differing opinion from him and you. Leading to if you don't have an opinion I agree with then you're one of the "bitters" and you 'lose". Simple Math.


Do you know how many opinions there are around here that I don't agree with? Ian comes to mind and I don't think he is bitter or losing at all. I can disagree with someone and still find them pleasant and positive so no, I don't ascribe bitterness to people I disagree with. Far from it. Lordy.


----------



## AFEH

There are many reasons why I stayed with her for so very long. There were many reasons why she stayed with me for so very long. I know those reasons. We weren’t perfect but we were very good. Nobody but nobody should ever underestimate the point a person gets to when they have to break up such a marriage and lose such a woman in their life. A woman can seriously wound a man. It was the dark side that did it. The bitterness and resentment and the passive aggression. I had no answer to it and so I had to let her go. That’s why I try and educate and warn people here. But you chose to label that the bitter ones or whatever, as is your way. You jump in and don’t let the men finish.

You make snap judgements about men. You just don’t know how very wrong you often are. You do not know the Depth of Man. Sometimes it feels like you come in the Men’s Clubhouse just to kick some of the men here. And while you continue to do that, to project your idea of man, you never will understand their depth and breadth.





Therealbrighteyes said:


> Bob, now THIS was a fantastic post! She sounded lovely in that department.


With your comment above I have no care for the positive things you say about me or the negative things you say about me. No woman gives me my credentials of being a Man, unless it’s the woman I love because if she didn’t think about me that way, I am lost.


----------



## Kobo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Do you know how many opinions there are around here that I don't agree with? Ian comes to mind and I don't think he is bitter or losing at all. I can disagree with someone and still find them pleasant and positive so no, I don't ascribe bitterness to people I disagree with. Far from it. Lordy.


No I don't know how many people you disagree with. I do know what you've written in this thread and that's what my post is based on. Far be it from me to expect a woman to be consistant


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

AFEH said:


> There are many reasons why I stayed with her for so very long. There were many reasons why she stayed with me for so very long. I know those reasons. We weren’t perfect but we were very good. Nobody but nobody should ever underestimate the point a person gets to when they have to break up such a marriage and lose such a woman in their life. A woman can seriously wound a man. It was the dark side that did it. The bitterness and resentment and the passive aggression. I had no answer to it and so I had to let her go. That’s why I try and educate and warn people here. But you chose to label that the bitter ones or whatever, as is your way. You jump in and don’t let the men finish.
> 
> You make snap judgements about men. You just don’t know how very wrong you often are. You do not know the Depth of Man. Sometimes it feels like you come in the Men’s Clubhouse just to kick some of the men here. And while you continue to do that, to project your idea of man, you never will understand their depth and breadth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With your comment above I have no care for the positive things you say about me or the negative things you say about me. No woman gives me my credentials of being a Man, unless it’s the woman I love because if she didn’t think about me that way, I am lost.


Kicking is your perception. I do no such thing. I come here to learn and to communicate. You and I are vastly different and just because I don't understand you, doesn't mean I fail to understand (most) men. 
I did like what you wrote about your wife and no I wasn't giving you credentials. It was a simple compliment.


----------



## Halien

IanIronwood said:


> but I do like to challenge broad-ranging statements and "I read that . . . " statements. This is why. Thanks.


Would look pretty cool on a business card: 

Don Quixote
Self-appointed Challenger of Every Trivial Detail I Ever Encounter.


----------



## Trenton

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Okay, maybe I am sloooooow tonight but what the hell is going on? I thought you and T got along famously and now she goes verbal Rambo on your butt and you end your response with a smiley dude donning a cowboy hat instead of a flaming devil.
> The apocalypse is upon us. Screw 2012, our doom is sealed. All that's left is reading Wood's response to That Girl's question and my brain can finally ooze out through my nostrils.
> It's been nice knowing you all.


Was that verbal Rambo? I thought it was more like Police Academy III

I was just pissed Deejo stood me up for another date. I think he's playing hard to get.


----------



## Trenton

okeydokie said:


> in keeping with the original thread:
> 
> i think women like to argue......alot


Shut it! We do not! I am right, you are wrong. That is all. Nothing to argue about here.


----------



## Trenton

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Kicking is your perception. I do no such thing. I come here to learn and to communicate. You and I are vastly different and just because I don't understand you, doesn't mean I fail to understand (most) men.
> I did like what you wrote about your wife and no I wasn't giving you credentials. It was a simple compliment.


Bob hangs out with his shadow too much which causes him to only see shadows.


----------



## that_girl

Holy crap. lol. This is like listening to my students...or my grandparents...


----------



## Trenton

that_girl said:


> Holy crap. lol. This is like listening to my students...or my grandparents...


Nanny nanny poo poo


----------



## that_girl

Trenton said:


> Nanny nanny poo poo


Exactly. 

:rofl:

Entertaining though!


----------



## Catherine602

AFEH said:


> “No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."
> It’s by John Donne, in which he explores the interconnectedness of mankind. But of course it doesn’t apply to you because you are a woman



Actually Donne was referring to mortality and that we are joined in that we will all face it. He was also referring to solidarity of mankind against tyranny. 

This thread is emblematic of female anxiety about the judgement of men and it brings out the haters in an attempt to fan that anxiety. What is troubling men is that women defining themselves like men do. We are changing the yardstick of how humans are measured. The so called new reality is that the male is not the standard, by which humankind should be judged. The standard is an amalgamation. Men and women are the standard in different ways. The change in status is seen by men who lived under the old rules as feminization of everything. That is true for them because women had no consideration in their world . 

You talk of the interconnectedness of humankind? If that were the pervasive sentiment in this society then women would not be devalued and female biology would not be considered a nuisance to some men. These men would not voice the horrible sentiment that a woman who mothers his children is devalued by so doing and having given him children and aging, she should be be grateful to him for keeping her around. I have seen this voiced several times on this forum by some of the men who are posting here. 

Why should I or any woman open themselves to the judgment of these types of warped haters? Woman by their nature want to please men and want to be loved and valued by men. I see much of the negative judgement of women as an attempt to use that very female characteristic to wound us.

The meditation by Donne is for men and woman by the way. We, men and woman, are connected with like minded men and women, those who affirm us and we, men and women, stand in solidarity against tyranny. I consider the hostility towards women's natural rhythms as tyrannical and I stand with those that are against it. Read Hemingway's "for whom the bell toll". He understood Donne's meditation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kobo

Trenton said:


> Nanny nanny poo poo


In the case of grandparents the poo poo is usually in their pants.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AFEH

Catherine602 said:


> This is interesting --- only a woman would ask such a question. *My question is who cares. Does it make any difference what men really really thInk? Of what use is the information.* By asking you are implying that what men think of women is more important than what women think of themselves. A man's thoughts don't make women what they are, biology, temperament and experience does a nice job.
> 
> Besides you can predict to the word who will post what. The rigid attachment avoidant men will fall all over themselves telling us little ladies how utterly unimportant women are - all the while longing to be loved and connected to one. Secure men will have varied and unique responses.
> 
> These responses are more about the men themselves nothing about what men think about women. There is no average man - each man is governed by his experiences, biology, and temperament just like women and what he thinks about women is reflected in that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Catherine602 said:


> Actually Donne was referring to mortality and that we are joined in that we will all face it. He was also referring to solidarity of mankind against tyranny.
> 
> This thread is emblematic of female anxiety about the judgement of men and it brings out the haters in an attempt to fan that anxiety. What is troubling men is that women defining themselves like men do. We are changing the yardstick of how humans are measured. The so called new reality is that the male is not the standard, by which humankind should be judged. The standard is an amalgamation. Men and women are the standard in different ways. The change in status is seen by men who lived under the old rules as feminization of everything. That is true for them because women had no consideration in their world .
> 
> You talk of the interconnectedness of humankind? If that were the pervasive sentiment in this society then women would not be devalued and female biology would not be considered a nuisance to some men. These men would not voice the horrible sentiment that a woman who mothers his children is devalued by so doing and having given him children and aging, she should be be grateful to him for keeping her around. I have seen this voiced several times on this forum by some of the men who are posting here.
> 
> Why should I or any woman open themselves to the judgment of these types of warped haters? Woman by their nature want to please men and want to be loved and valued by men. I see much of the negative judgement of women as an attempt to use that very female characteristic to wound us.
> 
> The meditation by Donne is for men and woman by the way. We, men and woman, are connected with like minded men and women, those who affirm us and we, men and women, stand in solidarity against tyranny. I consider the hostility towards women's natural rhythms as tyrannical and I stand with those that are against it. Read Hemingway's "for whom the bell toll". He understood Donne's meditation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ha! For a woman that posits she does not care what men think of women, you care what they think one heck of a lot! In fact, you are deeply passionate and motivated by what men think.


Very feminine that!


----------



## that_girl

Kobo said:


> In the case of grandparents the poo poo is usually in their pants.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL Not my grandparents! All of them in their 90s and A-ok!


----------



## that_girl

I like my wrinkles...and my stretch marks. They don't bother me or hinder me from knowing my beauty. I'm 35 but still get carded lol. My husband likes my body even with the imperfections. He likes to trace his fingers along the stretchmarks on my belly where I carried his daughter inside. 

My breasts nourished our child for months of her life. They aren't as pert as they once were, but there's something womanly about their slight droop. My hips have some padding on them, and he likes to grab on while we're being intimate.

When I smile, my eyes crinkle. He says he knows when I'm smiling for real because those lines show up.  

My belly pooches out a bit...need to tone...but I'm the weight I was when I met him 4 years ago. Not bad for having a baby in that time...

I see no haters here ...at least not haters towards me. I'm sure there is someone out there with a vagina who deserves their hatred...but I don't feel it upon myself. I know who I am. I actually like who I am (took years) and I know what my husband thinks about me...as a person, not just a woman.

What more is there?


----------



## Trenton

Kobo said:


> In the case of grandparents the poo poo is usually in their pants.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Too funny!


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

AFEH said:


> Ha! For a woman that posits she does not care what men think of women, you care what they think one heck of a lot! In fact, you are deeply passionate and motivated by what men think.
> 
> 
> Very feminine that!


She was saying that what matters is what you think of yourself, not what somebody else thinks of you. The "who cares what a man thinks" is because the thread was what do men really think of women. Her point being, be comfortable with yourself and stop worrying about what others think. At least that's what I got out of it.


----------



## Trenton

Catherine602 said:


> A I do very much care what men think both good and bad. I was rescued by a man. If it were not for my husband I do not know where I would be. His strength to me is very male. Not saying woman are not strong we are in different ways. But I find men are fearless against all reason. My husband falling in love and marrying me was chancy at best because I was a hot mess when we first got together.
> 
> I object to the things that are said that present a woman's life as hopeless beyond the age of 26 yrs. As I said, the approval of and love from men is a central theme in women's lives. We care about what men think and we are anxious that we will be tossed aside. That seems to be fodder for glee by the haters. I worry that young woman reading this will feel despondent when they have no cause to be. Men have daughters is that what they wish for their child?
> 
> It is like citing the prostate cancer stats to men, or the frequency of impotence as men age, or the number of 60 yr old men being divorced by their wives, or the fact that men die 15 to 20 yrs sooner than women, or that diabetes and hypertension rates increase with age and the treatment causes erectile problems for men. Who says those things and why? Only a cruel person would say them in answer to a woman having marital problems.
> 
> Would any one say that a 50yr old man should stay with an abusive wife because chances a new partner will not like his waining powers? 50, 60 and 70 yr old men find new and loving partners with great frequency no matter what those stats are. Someone loves them dispute those stats. That is true for women too. only less so because more women then men are not interested in getting involved with a man after they divorce. That stat is never stated when these studies are reported. It sounds better to say that woman are not valued and men are.
> 
> Why can't the stats mean that men are more motivated than women in seeking a partner. It is possible, no. So why does it always go to devaluing women?
> 
> I feel passionate about many thing mostly unfairness to men or women. Men are having a rough time now but I think it will get better and it is forums like these that promote dialogue that is turning the tide. I know one man who is happier because of what I leaned here, my husband.
> 
> The lack of compassion is astonishing to me. The fact that they say these things out loud is disturbing. They know that no one will challenge them and that is the shame of it. It is like racism, it not acceptable to say racist things in public because most of us have grown past that ugliness. But it is still OK to say ugly things about women.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


<sarcasm>Men don't know what they think so women have to think for them. Duh. In fact, men actually prefer we do the thinking for them. That's what they secretly want but are so set in their ways that they can't admit it.</sarcasm>


----------



## that_girl

I'm 7 years older than my husband...I don't really worry he'll toss me aside for someone younger.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Getting back to the spirit of the thread....I once asked my Grandfather about his thoughts on women. At the time I asked, he was 87 years old. He said "What do you mean? I think about them all the time".
Ha ha. 
All kidding aside, my question came about after him and his girlfriend of 44 years was planning their 45th anniversary. So I asked what he admired/loved about her.

I paraphrase here because I don't remember it all but this was the spirit of it:
Iris is everything. She is intelligent, stunning, adorable, wacky, caring, funny, sharp and loving. I love the way she smells, the way she looks at me when she thinks I don't see her, the way she holds my hand, the way she turns up her eyebrows when she is either puzzled or intrigued. The way she stands her ground on issues that are important to her. The way she refuses to use a dryer and hangs her laundry on her porch because sunlight makes clothing "better". The way she cares for me when I am sick and nuzzles next to me when she is. 
He died 4 years after that conversation from Alzeheimer's and pancreatic cancer and moments after his death, despite him looking like a skeleton and not even recognizing Iris for 2 years, she said and I quote "Isn't he the most handsome man you have ever seen?". She kissed him on the cheek and held his hand. 
He wasn't in "awe" of women, he was in awe of THAT woman.


----------



## nice777guy

I'm sorry - but - is that_girl married to Paul McCartney?


----------



## nice777guy

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Getting back to the spirit of the thread....I once asked my Grandfather about his thoughts on women. At the time I asked, he was 87 years old. He said "What do you mean? I think about them all the time".
> Ha ha.
> All kidding aside, my question came about after him and his girlfriend of 44 years was planning their 45th anniversary. So I asked what he admired/loved about her.
> 
> I paraphrase here because I don't remember it all but this was the spirit of it:
> Iris is everything. She is intelligent, stunning, adorable, wacky, caring, funny, sharp and loving. I love the way she smells, the way she looks at me when she thinks I don't see her, the way she holds my hand, the way she turns up her eyebrows when she is either puzzled or intrigued. The way she stands her ground on issues that are important to her. The way she refuses to use a dryer and hangs her laundry on her porch because sunlight makes clothing "better". The way she cares for me when I am sick and nuzzles next to me when she is.
> He died 4 years after that conversation from Alzeheimer's and pancreatic cancer and moments after his death, despite him looking like a skeleton and not even recognizing Iris for 2 years, she said and I quote "Isn't he the most handsome man you have ever seen?". She kissed him on the cheek and held his hand.
> He wasn't in "awe" of women, he was in awe of THAT woman.


I think I'm in awe of Iris myself right now.

Alzheimer's is such a terrible disease.

And - I must admit - as I look towards my own divorce - I find myself wondering if I'll ever find someone to be with me in those kinds of moments.

We get married and expect "mostly" happily forever after. And I think so many of us picture ourselves - rocking on a porch that we don't even have - talking to our spouses. And then - that dream is taken away.

I hope I can find someone like your Grandfather had...

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## OhGeesh

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Getting back to the spirit of the thread....I once asked my Grandfather about his thoughts on women. At the time I asked, he was 87 years old. He said "What do you mean? I think about them all the time".
> Ha ha.
> All kidding aside, my question came about after him and his girlfriend of 44 years was planning their 45th anniversary. So I asked what he admired/loved about her.
> 
> I paraphrase here because I don't remember it all but this was the spirit of it:
> Iris is everything. She is intelligent, stunning, adorable, wacky, caring, funny, sharp and loving. I love the way she smells, the way she looks at me when she thinks I don't see her, the way she holds my hand, the way she turns up her eyebrows when she is either puzzled or intrigued. The way she stands her ground on issues that are important to her. The way she refuses to use a dryer and hangs her laundry on her porch because sunlight makes clothing "better". The way she cares for me when I am sick and nuzzles next to me when she is.
> He died 4 years after that conversation from Alzeheimer's and pancreatic cancer and moments after his death, despite him looking like a skeleton and not even recognizing Iris for 2 years, she said and I quote "Isn't he the most handsome man you have ever seen?". She kissed him on the cheek and held his hand.
> He wasn't in "awe" of women, he was in awe of THAT woman.


Winner that's it!!!


----------



## LadyGemma

Hi,

I understand men very well, however sometimes i wish i didn't. It's more so to do with psychology. Men are very similar to primates, they need sex, they will always be looking at other women, most men are never satisfied with just the one women, sex is on their mind most days. Unless they have 3 things sorted out which is who they are, where they want to be, and how much money they are making, they won't be capable of having a secure proper relationship where he is known as man. There are heaps of things to know about a man and it's all about obvious different personality type, but by you asking a question like this, it's not something you learn over night and to be honest, most women cannot handle knowing how men perceive women because it can be way to sexual for most women and it's too much.

In regards to you thinking of men at the gym, yeah who doesn't, i think of having sex with every male that i am attracted to that walks past me every day, but apparently i am a dominant female, so who knows about that one! And maybe you are also seen as a dominant female?

Also men never understand women either, which at times is frustrating, however if you make it clear to him you need help and if he is a blue tongue lizard, he will do anything and everything in his power to fix your problem.

There is just way to much to discuss with this topic, but there are a few things.


----------



## okeydokie

i think women over analyze


----------



## Halien

LadyGemma said:


> Hi,
> 
> I understand men very well, however sometimes i wish i didn't. It's more so to do with psychology. Men are very similar to primates, they need sex, they will always be looking at other women, most men are never satisfied with just the one women, sex is on their mind most days. Unless they have 3 things sorted out which is who they are, where they want to be, and how much money they are making, they won't be capable of having a secure proper relationship where he is known as man. There are heaps of things to know about a man and it's all about obvious different personality type, but by you asking a question like this, it's not something you learn over night and to be honest, most women cannot handle knowing how men perceive women because it can be way to sexual for most women and it's too much.


I've had the pleasure of moving among quite a few social circles from childhood to now. To take a little from Socrates, and add my own experience to it, I would urge anyone who declares that they 'know' men, women, whites, hispanics or any group to recognize that they probably 'know' only those types within the small social group in which they live. 

The point is that I'm a man, and I find this description incredibly strange. I do see bits and pieces of it in some of the posters who occasionally post here, and I even knew a broad class of men like this as a kid, in a setting where you would never compare it to a theatre district, or a modern cultural center.

Where I currently live, and the circles I run, men don't really march to the drumbeat of sex and income. Hey, its great if we have it, but we spend far more time enmeshed in the technology or goals of the job we do, for the joy of it, and trying to find a meaningful existence at home, where each year brings us joy with our wives and children. I mean, we hear about men like that. Most of us wonder what it would be like to live in an existance where a job was only about an hourly wage, and life's only joy was sex because we had such a narrow existence.

When life gets predictable and bland, there is always the option of moving into a new circle of friends.


----------



## nice777guy

LadyGemma said:


> Unless they have 3 things sorted out which is who they are, where they want to be, and how much money they are making, they won't be capable of having a secure proper relationship where he is known as man.


I know how much money I make. Its on my weekly paycheck and last year's tax return!

Who I am and who I want to be? Changes like the direction of the wind. And I many people may disagree with me, but I think that's just fine. We are all constantly receiving new information - our environments aren't static - so why would we choose to stay the same?

Even if you found a man who had all 3 sorted out - in time - things will change. And its those changes - and how people handle them together - that can make or break a good relationship.


----------



## that_girl

okeydokie said:


> i think women over analyze


What do you mean by that? 



:rofl:


----------



## that_girl

How can you "know men"? 

I know my husband. I know my friend P. I know my dad. NONE Of them are very similar.


----------



## nice777guy

that_girl said:


> What do you mean by that?
> 
> 
> 
> :rofl:


THAT_GIRL!!! Is that Paul McCartney, or do I need glasses???


----------



## that_girl

nice777guy said:


> THAT_GIRL!!! Is that Paul McCartney, or do I need glasses???


It is Paul :smthumbup: And Linda <3 <3 <3

I'm a Beatles nut. A lifer. :smthumbup: My older daughter is named for Bob Dylan (he was my love 13 year ago) but my younger daughter's middle name is McCartney and she says it in the cutest way. lol.

I met him a few years back...I couldn't say much, just kinda cried for a moment (lame! But he's a hero in my life) but then I found my voice...but he's sweet and very gentle. 

I won't go on and on about the Beatles-- but I could! lol.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

LadyGemma said:


> Hi,
> 
> I understand men very well, however sometimes i wish i didn't. It's more so to do with psychology. Men are very similar to primates, they need sex, they will always be looking at other women, most men are never satisfied with just the one women, sex is on their mind most days. Unless they have 3 things sorted out which is who they are, where they want to be, and how much money they are making, they won't be capable of having a secure proper relationship where he is known as man. There are heaps of things to know about a man and it's all about obvious different personality type, but by you asking a question like this, it's not something you learn over night and to be honest, most women cannot handle knowing how men perceive women because it can be way to sexual for most women and it's too much.
> 
> In regards to you thinking of men at the gym, yeah who doesn't, i think of having sex with every male that i am attracted to that walks past me every day, but apparently i am a dominant female, so who knows about that one! And maybe you are also seen as a dominant female?
> 
> Also men never understand women either, which at times is frustrating, however if you make it clear to him you need help and if he is a blue tongue lizard, he will do anything and everything in his power to fix your problem.
> 
> There is just way to much to discuss with this topic, but there are a few things.


Gently here. Given your situation, it is easy to think that men are never happy with just one woman and sex is on the brain 24/7. Since you are the OW, that has become your reality. If however you were to get in to a committed relationship with someone who could give you that, I think you would find that not to be the case. It is far more complicated. Nurturing, respect and admiration are very important to men
A man who loves a woman has a much deeper core. Their perception of women isn't that of sexual object, rather that she is his partner, his confidant and his lover. 
Does that make sense?


----------



## LadyGemma

nice777guy said:


> I know how much money I make. Its
> 
> Even if you found a man who had all 3 sorted out - in time - things will change. And its those changes - and how people handle them together - that can make or break a good relationship.


 As long as he has this sorted out and he is happy where he is, the attention will be on the women and he will be happy to be able to hold a firm relationship. However, are you happy with your current life and do you have all three sorted out and the main question is are you ready for another relationship?


----------



## LadyGemma

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Gently here. Given your situation, it is easy to think that men are never happy with just one woman and sex is on the brain 24/7. Since you are the OW, that has become your reality.
> 
> No, i have found this in a lot of men, even if i am friends with them, i am seeing them always looking at other women, texting another women, keeping his "options open". Other men that i am not involved with do this as well. Even sometimes the way men talk about their partner in general sexually is just disgusting. These are the men who do not have the 3 elements in their life sorted out and are still very young completing their career, not making money and still sorting out who they are as a person. So maybe this is just my generation!


----------



## Kobo

LadyGemma said:


> Therealbrighteyes said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gently here. Given your situation, it is easy to think that men are never happy with just one woman and sex is on the brain 24/7. Since you are the OW, that has become your reality.
> 
> No, i have found this in a lot of men, even if i am friends with them, i am seeing them always looking at other women, texting another women, keeping his "options open". Other men that i am not involved with do this as well. Even sometimes the way men talk about their partner in general sexually is just disgusting. These are the men who do not have the 3 elements in their life sorted out and are still very young completing their career, not making money and still sorting out who they are as a person. So maybe this is just my generation!
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't sound like you're in "awe" of men. For Shame. I'll try not to throw my feces at you. Gotta work on controlling that primate in me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...


----------



## LadyGemma

Kobo said:


> LadyGemma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't sound like you're in "awe" of men. For Shame. I'll try not to throw my feces at you. Gotta work on controlling that primate in me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, aren't you a keeper
Click to expand...


----------



## Syrum

Halien said:


> I've had the pleasure of moving among quite a few social circles from childhood to now. To take a little from Socrates, and add my own experience to it, I would urge anyone who declares that they 'know' men, women, whites, hispanics or any group to recognize that they probably 'know' only those types within the small social group in which they live.
> 
> The point is that I'm a man, and I find this description incredibly strange. I do see bits and pieces of it in some of the posters who occasionally post here, and I even knew a broad class of men like this as a kid, in a setting where you would never compare it to a theatre district, or a modern cultural center.
> 
> Where I currently live, and the circles I run, men don't really march to the drumbeat of sex and income. Hey, its great if we have it, but we spend far more time enmeshed in the technology or goals of the job we do, for the joy of it, and trying to find a meaningful existence at home, where each year brings us joy with our wives and children. I mean, we hear about men like that. Most of us wonder what it would be like to live in an existance where a job was only about an hourly wage, and life's only joy was sex because we had such a narrow existence.
> 
> When life gets predictable and bland, there is always the option of moving into a new circle of friends.


I love this.


----------



## Triumph

I think women are overly dramatic, and I dont appreciate all the gossip and fluff talk. I think I have a fair understanding of why, but that doesnt mean I enjoy it.

Other than that I am doing my very best to break down the generalizations and stereotypes I have built into my perception.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Kobo said:


> LadyGemma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't sound like you're in "awe" of men. For Shame. I'll try not to throw my feces at you. Gotta work on controlling that primate in me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure I understand your post. What I was saying is that in Gemma's situation, her reality is such because of the relationship she is in, i.e she is the other woman. I think that once a man and woman are in a committed relationship, that reality differs in that sex isn't on the brain 24/7. There is something much deeper there.
> Now she said that many other men she knows are the feces throwing kind of guy you mentioned. I am sure that is true so I have to wonder if it is an age thing? Yes, young men often times do the "locker room" talk and brag, etc. I don't find that to be true with any man over 30. They mature and that just isn't something they dish on. Once you hit 40, you sure as heck would never hear a married man tell his friends about what goes on in their bedroom, at least not the guys I know, so no.....not primates.
Click to expand...


----------



## nice777guy

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Kobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure I understand your post. What I was saying is that in Gemma's situation, her reality is such because of the relationship she is in, i.e she is the other woman. I think that once a man and woman are in a committed relationship, that reality differs in that sex isn't on the brain 24/7. There is something much deeper there.
> Now she said that many other men she knows are the feces throwing kind of guy you mentioned. I am sure that is true so I have to wonder if it is an age thing? Yes, young men often times do the "locker room" talk and brag, etc. I don't find that to be true with any man over 30. They mature and that just isn't something they dish on. Once you hit 40, you sure as heck would never hear a married man tell his friends about what goes on in their bedroom, at least not the guys I know, so no.....not primates.
> 
> 
> 
> I've never been that way. Wasn't at 18 - not now.
> 
> Sadly - mine is a success story of sorts - or maybe "fable" is a better word. Greek tragedy perhaps.
> 
> I have truly only chased one woman in my life - and I was able to catch her. There were other crushes - a few diversions when I had almost given up. But - from the time I first saw her in High School - I was on the chase.
> 
> Wish my story had a better damn ending!!!
> 
> I could swear I remember one time Wile E. Coyote somehow catching the Road Runner - but he had to shrink himself down to do it. So there he was - holding on to the RR's leg - wearing a bib - holding knife and fork. Then he suddenly holds out a sign that says "What do I do now?"
> 
> Some days, I feel a bit like a shrunken Wile E. Coyote - holding that damn sign.
Click to expand...


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

nice777guy said:


> Therealbrighteyes said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never been that way. Wasn't at 18 - not now.
> 
> Sadly - mine is a success story of sorts - or maybe "fable" is a better word. Greek tragedy perhaps.
> 
> I have truly only chased one woman in my life - and I was able to catch her. There were other crushes - a few diversions when I had almost given up. But - from the time I first saw her in High School - I was on the chase.
> 
> Wish my story had a better damn ending!!!
> 
> I could swear I remember one time Wile E. Coyote somehow catching the Road Runner - but he had to shrink himself down to do it. So there he was - holding on to the RR's leg - wearing a bib - holding knife and fork. Then he suddenly holds out a sign that says "What do I do now?"
> 
> Some days, I feel a bit like a shrunken Wile E. Coyote - holding that damn sign.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I was a little sister at a fraternity so yeah, I heard PLENTY. The difference there was immaturity and also none of these men respected the women they were banging. Those that had girlfriends however would NEVER say a word about what goes on between them. Respect being the key there.
> Of the male friends I have now, 2 I have known since childhood and yes, they told me in revolting detail what they had done but that was years ago. Now they are both married and I haven't heard a peep in the sex department for 15 years. Again, it's about respect. On the flip side, I sure don't talk about sex with my girlfriends. I cannot understand women that do. It is so disrespectful to be telling things that happen in private and between two people who have an expectation of exclusivity.
> 
> Honey, you aren't the coyote. You're the roadrunner and women will be chasing you, salt and pepper in hand......trust me.
Click to expand...


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## Deejo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Once you hit 40, you sure as heck would never hear a married man tell his friends about what goes on in their bedroom, at least not the guys I know, so no.....not primates.


We talk a lot about confidence and being self-assured. And that may somehow translate to a male being completely self assured in his intimate relationships, marriage, or sexuality, but the fact remains, mature or not, questions still come up, and a good source to discuss those questions is other men.

And yes, sometimes that involves venting about what is or _isn't_ going on in the bedroom.

I have a few very close male friends that do in fact talk about the intimacy in their relationships. It is never bragging. It is often ... an unspoken 'check' regarding how and where they stand in their relationships with their respective partners as contrasted with other peer males. It would never, EVER be brought to the light of day amongst mixed company. It's deeply personal.

Were one to break the 'code' we have a standing pact that the offending party will be dismembered and spread across a 3 state radius.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Deejo said:


> We talk a lot about confidence and being self-assured. And that may somehow translate to a male being completely self assured in his intimate relationships, marriage, or sexuality, but the fact remains, mature or not, questions still come up, and a good source to discuss those questions is other men.
> 
> And yes, sometimes that involves venting about what is or _isn't_ going on in the bedroom.
> 
> I have a few very close male friends that do in fact talk about the intimacy in their relationships. It is never bragging. It is often ... an unspoken 'check' regarding how and where they stand in their relationships with their respective partners as contrasted with other peer males. It would never, EVER be brought to the light of day amongst mixed company. It's deeply personal.
> 
> Were one to break the 'code' we have a standing pact that the offending party will be dismembered and spread across a 3 state radius.


That just seems so odd to me. I guess perhaps venting is one thing as in "We haven't had sex in months" kind of thing but explicit details about what happened last night (to me) would be very disrespectful. I just couldn't imagine being at a party in mixed company and having my husband's friend stare at me "knowing". I wouldn't do that to him either. I just see that as very private. 
Then again I blab here all the time, I guess the difference being I don't know or see any of you in real life. Gah, who knows.


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## Deejo

Your husband's friends are imagining having sex with you anyway ... what's the difference? :ezpi_wink1:


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## Therealbrighteyes

Deejo said:


> Your husband's friends are imagining having sex with you anyway ... what's the difference? :ezpi_wink1:


Ok, do guys REALLY think this way?! I must hang around those who are low test or great actors. Not sure. Only one who made it known though is single and thought we were separating. I just laughed it off.


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## Triumph

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Ok, do guys REALLY think this way?! I must hang around those who are low test or great actors. Not sure. Only one who made it known though is single and thought we were separating. I just laughed it off.


Im thinking that way right now.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Triumph said:


> Im thinking that way right now.


Ha! Some random chick on the internet? Too funny.


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## Triumph

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Ha! Some random chick on the internet? Too funny.


Random???

Ive already made you into a "The Sims" avatar... ok that was creepy. 

apologies:smthumbup:


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## Therealbrighteyes

Triumph said:


> Random???
> 
> Ive already made you into a "The Sims" avatar... ok that was creepy.
> 
> apologies:smthumbup:


Sorry, not familiar with The Sims. Am I wearing some ****ty outfit and leather boots, two guns strapped to my thighs as I march around killing bad guys that pop out from behind abandoned buildings?


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## Halien

Therealbrighteyes said:


> That just seems so odd to me. I guess perhaps venting is one thing as in "We haven't had sex in months" kind of thing but explicit details about what happened last night (to me) would be very disrespectful. I just couldn't imagine being at a party in mixed company and having my husband's friend stare at me "knowing". I wouldn't do that to him either. I just see that as very private.
> Then again I blab here all the time, I guess the difference being I don't know or see any of you in real life. Gah, who knows.


It doesn't happen very often. There's a young woman that walks through my office row to say hi to some of the process engineers since they helped her to resolve issues with supplier parts. She's built like a brick house, and walks like she's fully aware, with too tight clothes. As she passed, an employee, one of the engineers, said, "My wife only walks like that when she's horny. She won't even wear clothes after I get home when she's like that!" I just replied, "I'm the one dying if you ever tell me something like that again!" Dang! Now I'm dreading the office party. I'd just rather not know certain things.


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## Triumph

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Am I wearing some ****ty outfit and leather boots, two guns strapped to my thighs as I march around killing bad guys that pop out from behind abandoned buildings?


You are now


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## nice777guy

No offense to the other lovely ladies on this board, but I sure do miss SA's old avatar! With the heels and red dress...

:smthumbup:


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## SimplyAmorous

nice777guy said:


> No offense to the other lovely ladies on this board, but I sure do miss SA's old avatar! With the heels and red dress...
> 
> :smthumbup:


Ha ha, I haven't really been following this thread at all but did catch this post ! There you go Nice Guy!


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## nice777guy

SimplyAmorous said:


> Ha ha, I haven't really been following this thread at all but did catch this post ! There you go Nice Guy!


God bless!!!


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## that_girl

Deejo said:


> Your husband's friends are imagining having sex with you anyway ... what's the difference? :ezpi_wink1:


I have always wondered this. Do friends of your husband really think this way? lol. :scratchhead:  Kinda creepeh.


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## that_girl

Triumph said:


> I think women are overly dramatic, and I dont appreciate all the gossip and fluff talk. I think I have a fair understanding of why, but that doesnt mean I enjoy it.


I think the same thing about women. Which is why I have very few female friends. The friends I do have, think the same thing about women lol.


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## nice777guy

that_girl said:


> I have always wondered this. Do friends of your husband really think this way? lol. :scratchhead:  Kinda creepeh.


Usually - yes. Sorry...


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## Deejo

that_girl said:


> I have always wondered this. Do friends of your husband really think this way? lol. :scratchhead:  Kinda creepeh.


Good luck ... and Godspeed

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/24519-way-men-really-think.html


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## that_girl

nice777guy said:


> Usually - yes. Sorry...


:rofl: That's awesome. I surely don't think about having sex with them. Ew.


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## Therealbrighteyes

nice777guy said:


> Usually - yes. Sorry...


And what exactly are ya holdin' there NG? A syringe?


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## SimplyAmorous

Speaking about men talking to men about their sex lives...

The guys at my husbands work are always going on about what they don't get in the bedroom, if they got lucky the night before , they are sure to mention that too & joke it will be another month now - but no explicit detail. My husband used to complain about me somewhat right along with them , then all of a sudden that wasn't happening anymore -then they noticed how he was suddenly getting these healthier lunches every day, fruits -veggies packed with care, he mentioned how I get up every morning to cook for him... jokes started about this BIG change in the wife & he did relay " WOW, I don't know what happened, but she isn't like that anymore - now it is TOO much ...She's killing me". :rofl: 

Then he told a couple of them how I got him some "Stiff Nights" (gotta love that name) to keep up & how GOOOOD that stuff was. Ever since, all these guys come to him & open up about their erection issues, and sex lives. He has given out a handful of those SN's too. My husband is the sex guru at work now & if he don't know the answer he tells him his wife does. He used to be the quietest most uneventful guy at his workplace, now he kinda has this reputation. 

Shortly after all of this began, about 3 yrs ago now, his workplace had this BIG party out to eat , all those guys & some of the wives came too - and oh my - did they have fun TEASING me, didn't take them long to put ME in the HOT seat - they let me know they are on to me......they KNOW why his lunches are packed with such love, they know all about it - joking how if I don't slow it down, I am going to kill him. They were having a blast, we just laughed right along with them. What are you gonna do! Cats out of the bag now. 

But nothing personally explicit, just guys being horny guys -joking -making light of their situation or slapping my husband on the back telling him he is luckly son of a B.


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## nice777guy

Therealbrighteyes said:


> And what exactly are ya holdin' there NG? A syringe?


Don't THINK so! Although I don't remember...

And THAT'S why I've never put a pic up!!!


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## Therealbrighteyes

nice777guy said:


> Don't THINK so! Although I don't remember...
> 
> And THAT'S why I've never put a pic up!!!


Chill, I didn't say you weren't good looking, I simply asked if you were holding a needle.


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## nice777guy

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Chill, I didn't say you weren't good looking, I simply asked if you were holding a needle.


Yeah - I was about to shoot up ??? meth ??? or heroine?

You KNOW I'm not a doc!!!

I had a pic of Zac Galifinakis up for a sec...shoulda left it!!!

So women see a pic - and examine it for DETAILS???


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## Therealbrighteyes

nice777guy said:


> Yeah - I was about to shoot up ??? meth ??? or heroine?
> 
> You KNOW I'm not a doc!!!
> 
> I had a pic of Zac Galifinakis up for a sec...shoulda left it!!!
> 
> So women see a pic - and examine it for DETAILS???


No, I had a 3 sec run through of the Kama Sutra and then went what the.....is that a syringe?!


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## nice777guy

Therealbrighteyes said:


> No, I had a 3 sec run through of the Kama Sutra and then went what the.....is that a syringe?!


:rofl:

OK, thank you...for the compliment AND the much needed laugh on an otherwise LOUSY day.

Al Davis died, you know...


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## Kobo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Ok, do guys REALLY think this way?! I must hang around those who are low test or great actors. Not sure. Only one who made it known though is single and thought we were separating. I just laughed it off.


If they are thinking that way they won't tell you. It also depends on the friend. Real friend, office friend, casual acquaintance. Then of course there are the husbands of the ladies on TAM that don't masturbate


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## uphillbattle

SimplyAmorous said:


> Speaking about men talking to men about their sex lives...
> 
> The guys at my husbands work are always going on about what they don't get in the bedroom, if they got lucky the night before , they are sure to mention that too & joke it will be another month now - but no explicit detail. My husband used to complain about me somewhat right along with them , then all of a sudden that wasn't happening anymore -then they noticed how he was suddenly getting these healthier lunches every day, fruits -veggies packed with care, he mentioned how I get up every morning to cook for him... jokes started about this BIG change in the wife & he did relay " WOW, I don't know what happened, but she isn't like that anymore - now it is TOO much ...She's killing me". :rofl:
> 
> Then he told a couple of them how I got him some "Stiff Nights" (gotta love that name) to keep up & how GOOOOD that stuff was. Ever since, all these guys come to him & open up about their erection issues, and sex lives. He has given out a handful of those SN's too. My husband is the sex guru at work now & if he don't know the answer he tells him his wife does. He used to be the quietest most uneventful guy at his workplace, now he kinda has this reputation.
> 
> Shortly after all of this began, about 3 yrs ago now, his workplace had this BIG party out to eat , all those guys & some of the wives came too - and oh my - did they have fun TEASING me, didn't take them long to put ME in the HOT seat - they let me know they are on to me......they KNOW why his lunches are packed with such love, they know all about it - joking how if I don't slow it down, I am going to kill him. They were having a blast, we just laughed right along with them. What are you gonna do! Cats out of the bag now.
> 
> But nothing personally explicit, just guys being horny guys -joking -making light of their situation or slapping my husband on the back telling him he is luckly son of a B.


If everything you say is true than they are just like atleast 75% of the men on here. JELAOUS of your husband. He got himself a unicorn.


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## Triumph

that_girl said:


> :rofl: That's awesome. I surely don't think about having sex with them. Ew.


Level the playing field. Arent you ladies the ones that want equality? Heres your chance.


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## that_girl

Triumph said:


> Level the playing field. Arent you ladies the ones that want equality? Heres your chance.


Dear god, no. lol. I don't need that type of equality.


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## that_girl

Kobo said:


> If they are thinking that way they won't tell you. It also depends on the friend. Real friend, office friend, casual acquaintance. Then of course there are the husbands of the ladies on TAM that don't masturbate


lol You are caught up on people who don't masturbate, aren't you. lol.

I do...a lot. My husband doesn't, and I wish he would with me.

we just have a ton of sex though, so i am not complaining.


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## Trenton

Therealbrighteyes said:


> No, I had a 3 sec run through of the Kama Sutra and then went what the.....is that a syringe?!


I managed to just integrate the syringe into my fantasy. Thanks NG for the early evening satisfaction.


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## nice777guy

Trenton said:


> I managed to just integrate the syringe into my fantasy. Thanks NG for the early evening satisfaction.


Don't know if I should thank you, or remove the pic and change my id!


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## Trenton

nice777guy said:


> Don't know if I should thank you, or remove the pic and change my id!


Well, I already saved it to my computer, printed it out and laminated it. So you might want to change your id at least. :rofl:


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## nice777guy

I just feel...cheap...




And it feels better than I ever imagined it could!


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## Trenton

nice777guy said:


> I just feel...cheap...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it feels better than I ever imagined it could!


:lol:


----------



## ladybird

IanIronwood said:


> (*sigh*)
> 
> It's not that I don't think you have the capacity or the intelligence. But I also don't think you're going to "get" how men think, not without a fair amount of study.
> 
> For example, do you realize that to men (most men, and usually the most desirable and successful men most of all) sex as a part of a relationship is as strong a need in them as clean clothes are to a woman?
> 
> Seriously. It took my wife a couple of years to get that part. Men need sex. Men want sex. Women want sex. But men NEED sex. Even if it's just with ourselves, it pervades every aspect of our lives and fills our day. On your horniest day, you still didn't feel the same kind of unrelenting buzz in the back of your head that nearly every man you've ever met has going on ALL THE TIME.
> 
> You see, men get access to their emotional feelings through the agency of sex, as well as their personal affirmations, self-esteem, self-confidence, self . . . well, everything. Our goals and aspirations are bounded by it, our brains are obsessed by it, and how something will help or hurt our chances of sex is probably one of the top three factors in decision-making we have. And perhaps the only consistent one.
> 
> You may think I'm joking or exaggerating or being, well, a dude when I say all of this, but unless you are willing to accept that one point as an axiom in context of how men view women, nothing else is going to make sense.
> 
> And that's a long, long way from how women view sex.
> 
> You with me so far?


My husband isn't how you decried either. Maybe 8 years ago yes, but not now. About 5 years ago he told me that sex isn't on the top of his to do list, it isn't even on there. You pretty much described me above, not my husband.

I can't talk for everyone woman only for myself. For me, sex is a strong need.


----------



## IanIronwood

ladybird said:


> My husband isn't how you decried either. Maybe 8 years ago yes, but not now. About 5 years ago he told me that sex isn't on the top of his to do list, it isn't even on there. You pretty much described me above, not my husband.
> 
> I can't talk for everyone woman only for myself. For me, sex is a strong need.


You are in the minority. For most men, it's a primary drive. In aggregate, men are motivated by sex, and women are motivated by security.


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## ladybird

IanIronwood said:


> You are in the minority. For most men, it's a primary drive. In aggregate, men are motivated by sex, and women are motivated by security.


I feel like a cave (wo)man. me club you now lol.

My husband is the woman as in not tonight honey i have a headache or what not..for me i dont care if i have a head ache or am sick. I still want sex...


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## Therealbrighteyes

IanIronwood said:


> You are in the minority. For most men, it's a primary drive. In aggregate, men are motivated by sex, and women are motivated by security.


So how do you turn a man who is motivated by security in to a man motivated by sex and a woman motivated by sex in to a woman motivated by security?


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## that_girl

ladybird said:


> I feel like a cave (wo)man. me club you now lol.
> 
> My husband is the woman as in not tonight honey i have a headache or what not..for me i dont care if i have a head ache or am sick. I still want sex...


Ugh...So sorry.


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## IanIronwood

Therealbrighteyes said:


> So how do you turn a man who is motivated by security in to a man motivated by sex and a woman motivated by sex in to a woman motivated by security?


You have to burn special herbs.


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## nice777guy

Therealbrighteyes said:


> So how do you turn a man who is motivated by security in to a man motivated by sex and a woman motivated by sex in to a woman motivated by security?


Same as turning water into wine.

:scratchhead:


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## Deejo

Or smoke special herbs ...


----------



## MEM2020

SA,
You set the gold standard for being a great W. Really and truly you do. 

And I would guess that you have some friends who have quietly worked harder at their marriages to try to get where "you" are.

To everyone else here. SA is also very nice looking. Her H won the W lottery. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> Speaking about men talking to men about their sex lives...
> 
> The guys at my husbands work are always going on about what they don't get in the bedroom, if they got lucky the night before , they are sure to mention that too & joke it will be another month now - but no explicit detail. My husband used to complain about me somewhat right along with them , then all of a sudden that wasn't happening anymore -then they noticed how he was suddenly getting these healthier lunches every day, fruits -veggies packed with care, he mentioned how I get up every morning to cook for him... jokes started about this BIG change in the wife & he did relay " WOW, I don't know what happened, but she isn't like that anymore - now it is TOO much ...She's killing me". :rofl:
> 
> Then he told a couple of them how I got him some "Stiff Nights" (gotta love that name) to keep up & how GOOOOD that stuff was. Ever since, all these guys come to him & open up about their erection issues, and sex lives. He has given out a handful of those SN's too. My husband is the sex guru at work now & if he don't know the answer he tells him his wife does. He used to be the quietest most uneventful guy at his workplace, now he kinda has this reputation.
> 
> Shortly after all of this began, about 3 yrs ago now, his workplace had this BIG party out to eat , all those guys & some of the wives came too - and oh my - did they have fun TEASING me, didn't take them long to put ME in the HOT seat - they let me know they are on to me......they KNOW why his lunches are packed with such love, they know all about it - joking how if I don't slow it down, I am going to kill him. They were having a blast, we just laughed right along with them. What are you gonna do! Cats out of the bag now.
> 
> But nothing personally explicit, just guys being horny guys -joking -making light of their situation or slapping my husband on the back telling him he is luckly son of a B.


----------



## tmbirdy

Laurae1967 said:


> Yes, I do understand that sex is a strong need for most men. It's a strong need for many women, too (myself included). My husband is not how you describe, however. I could have sex every day, or even multiple times a day, but my husband is happy with once a week. Sleep is more his NEED.
> 
> So when you make a decision about anything, sex is always in there? When you take a job, for example, sex is partly driving that decision (I can have access to more sex if I take this job or I will be viewed as more powerful, which is sexy type of thing? I don't think women think that way.
> 
> I think you may underestimate women's sexuality. For example, at the gym, I see certain men working out and imagine how they would be sexually, or envision having sex with them in vivid detail. I notice aspects of their physicality, their breathing, movements, etc. in a sexual way. Of course, it doesn't help that I'm reading Loves Savage Rash while I'm riding the bike (yes, pun intended).


I absolutely agree that a woman's sexuality is not understood and certainly not by men. Women DO need sex. For me a couple nights without drives me crazy. Me and my ex, were never equally yoked in that department as I wanted it more than him, but me and my husband now are very equally yoked regarding sex. It's the one thing that can bring us back to ground zero even after a fight. Now, I should probably stop thinking about it and get back to work.


----------

