# Any helpful advice would be appreciated.



## What is next? (Sep 8, 2011)

I am going to make a long story short since this saga is so typical and depressing. I discovered my wife's 9 month affair nearly 6 months ago. She was carrying on with a man she worked with at a part time job. My wife has been a pretty straight shooter for all of her life and I think due to many circumstances including not being able to have kids, she cracked and stepped out.

The man she beacme involved was not a good guy to say the least. She chose to come back to me after I put down the ultimatum and we have been working our marriage ever since. Over the past 6 months we have been seeing a counselor and trying to work it out. I feel confident that she has been faithful but I have consistantly felt that something was missing. This empty feeling has hindered my ability to heel and move on. She is not the most open communicator and most info I get from her must be pryed out. About a week ago I finnally asked the right question and got an answer that explained the empty feeling. I asked her if she was passionately in love with me. She said she loved me but was not in love with me, still.

I guess I knew this in a way, but the hearing so direclty was a shock. I hoped that 6 months of working hard on a relationship might have re-kindled old feelings or something. I guess the dilema is that I don't think she will fall in love with me until things get back to normal, and I won't be able to get back to normal until I feel loved. That is, if a passionate, loving relationship is even a possibility for us. I don't want to be with someone who is with me because I am the better choice in their head. I want someone who is in love with me and chooses me from their heart.

My wife tells me that she loves me but that she is still not in love with me. I don't know how long I can live with the fact that the last man my wife truly loved was not me. I guess my question is if anyone has seen/experienced a similar situation and is recovery still a possibility? I feel like I have given alot, forgivness, compassion, love, etc. If that is not enough will anything bring her back emotionally? Like anyone that has been decieved to this extent I have not always been easy to live with since the affair came to light, but I feel I have done my part to rebuild. I just don't know anymore.


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

You get out, you don't stay with someone who doesn't love you, end of discussion.

She can't love you anymore like a husband, show her the door and move on with your life. Why suffer and be with someone who doesn't love you?

I guess she still loves you enough to live in a house and have food on the table everyday right?

BTW she's biding her time if she's still giving you that speech. Still waiting for her white knight which still isn't you. Trapped in that boring castle and needs someone to swoop her off her feet and carry her away.


----------



## What is next? (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks for the quick responses. I guess the reason I have not just turned tail and run is because I value our mariage alot and I want to give it every oppurtunity. 

I handle confrontation and emotion head on and direct. My wife is very passive and reserved. I do feel that I have been on her alot (with good reason) and maybe have not given her much chance recover. I tend to get into an arguement, get out what is bothering me and move on. She, on the other hand, will hold onto whatever is bothering her for a long time and never bring it up. It is what led her to cheat in the first place.

I have thought about a seperation but I think that might be another wat to delay the inevitable. If she can come around and find what it is in me that she once loved, that would be my first choice of outcome and I could stay. I don't want to be in any other type of relationship.


----------



## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

It can take a while. I stayed in the fog for a few months after the affair was over. She is going to have to work hard to get back to where she was, but it can happen.


----------



## What is next? (Sep 8, 2011)

If it was "fog", that would make some sense, although, it has been 6 months. I sometimes wonder if she is cold, or just feels somehow justified in what she did. When I ask a tough question she always responds with "yes I'm sorry" or "of course I'm upset I hurt you", but it never comes without me asking, and it always comes with a "you are asking this again?" tone.


----------



## stoney96 (Jul 20, 2009)

you need to sit down and write a list of your needs, and then have a frank discussion with her about what it will take for you to move on with reconciliation.

Both of you also need to seek out a councilor to move forward as well.

cheating spouses have issues, and they typically don't confess them to their loyal spouses. If they did, they wouldn't be in the mess they created.

I'm in a similar spot, where my wife can't seem to meet my needs on a consistent basis. It's not that she won't, it's the fact that she can't. Her whole family are emotional cripples.

You have to decide, is she doing all that she can, or all that she wants.

Then you decide, based on your needs.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

It can take longer than 6 months to get out of the fog completely. I first came here 9 months after D Day looking for help getting myself out of it. In reality it took me a little over a year to get it behind me. It still sucks that she's deep enough in it to say that to you. She has to know what that means to you and it makes me question her commitment to reconciliation but the fog makes people do stupid stuff.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

What is next? said:


> If it was "fog", that would make some sense, although, it has been 6 months. I sometimes wonder if she is cold, or just feels somehow justified in what she did. When I ask a tough question she always responds with "yes I'm sorry" or "of course I'm upset I hurt you", but it never comes without me asking, and it always comes with a "you are asking this again?" tone.


Draw a line in the sand so to speak. 3 months, 6 months or whatever. If no true progress is shown by then then file for D. Lots of times being served with papers breaks the wall down and some true emotions come out. But be prepared for her to be relieved and to walk away.

Kinda sounds like she is not committed to the marriage despite what she is saying. She may want you to file so she can claim the the divorce is not her fault and she did not want it. If she is showing no emotion when asked the tough questions, then the emotional commitment to you is simply not there. Time to move on.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Get the book" His Needs Her Needs". From what people say if this book doesn't work nothing will. 

You are really light on details. Counseling? What have the two of you done to rekindle the romance? Dating? Sex? How much time together? Still working with OM?


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How do you KNOW the affair is over? Affairs are like any addiction. Could you tell she was going through withdrawal? How did you find out?


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I am very sorry for you. I hope that the both of you have been tested for STD's. Do you think that if your wife knew that you would have automatically divorced her if she had an affair, she still would have had the affair? I am guessing but maybe your wife thought that even if you find out you would still forgive her and I guess she was correct.

For many people it is the lying and the deceptiveness that went into the affair and the totally disrespect of the spouse that is the killer. Her actions and continuous behavior indicate that she is staying with you because you are the best option right now. You need to get out of the fog yourself and release that you deserve better. If the roles were reversed do you think your wife would have been so accepting as you have been?

If the OM is married or has a girlfriend it is essential that you expose this affair to them. All I can say to you is that if you do not respect yourself than who will?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

My thinking is quit worring about someone loving you and focus on loving your self. Its way more attractive and you keep the focus on you not her.

See. when you can walk around knowing you are the sh!t no matter what, then you are one up on most people.

Stop validating your self worth on someone else, but have the confidence that you can have any one and you have choosen your WW.

The c0cky guys always get the chicks! For some reason chick just find that kind of thing attractive.


************disclaimer************

I'm not saying act like a shovenistic pig or jackass, but be calm, fair, and confident in your dicisions in leading your marriage.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

The guy is onto something. Women are attracted to alpha, confident behavior. You don't sound alpha and confident, which is understandable, so she's not passionately attracted to you. The irony is that, in order to show her your alpha, confident behavior, you need to file for divorce. By leaving her, you may prove to her that you are worthy of her, which may attract her enough to reproduce the passion. At that point, you could call off the divorce.

And if not, at least you're free.


----------



## What is next? (Sep 8, 2011)

I wanted to post an update to this thread written many months ago. Just found out that she has been back with the other man for at least 6 months if not more. No straight answer on time, although I don't care how long she has been back in contact. One day or 6 months, it is all the same now. Reconciliation is not an option any more. 

It is very enlightening to go back and read all the comments after the truth comes out. I knew something wasn't right, but I really couldn't believe that she was capable of doing that again, so I was in denial. I guess.

Things I've learned:

1. Turst your instincts - If it feels wrong it probably is.

2. Let them make their own choices - Don't use guilt, god, family, lifestyle, or anything else to convince them your are the right option. They have to choose on their own.

3. Put the consequences on the table - File for divorce, you don't have to sign, but make it real.

4. Put your needs first - You have to do your part to repair your marriage, but not at the expense of your own self esteem or image.

5. Affairs are addictions - Treat them as such. All the same steps apply from admitting a problem to making life changes, if it seems like they are handling it easily, it's because they are getting help from someone and it is not you.

I am sure there are many more things I am forgetting but this is a little of what I have learned. I hope someone can benefit from my mistakes. I do believe relationships can recover but I know now how truly hard it is. Fixers beware. The harder you try to fix this one, the more likely you are to over do it and break it more. 

Good luck to all and thanks to all who have offered advice to me along way.


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

How did you found out? Are you certain of the info you have?


----------



## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

Well, things are clear now, you can move on.


----------



## What is next? (Sep 8, 2011)

No doubts. She has admitted it. Phone records first.


----------



## Hank567 (Apr 23, 2012)

What is next? said:


> 1. Turst your instincts - If it feels wrong it probably is.
> 
> 2. Let them make their own choices - Don't use guilt, god, family, lifestyle, or anything else to convince them your are the right option. They have to choose on their own.
> 
> ...


Wise words. I'm sorry that you had to go through all that.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I am so sorry.

The ILYBINILWY speech is the canary in the coal mine well over 90% of the time. When there is an AP in the picture, it's more like 99%.

I am so glad to hear how strong you are now compared to your posts in the past.


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

^^^ Couldn't agree more. She never stopped contact. I recommend to any spouse who hears "...but I'm not in love with you" that you straight up ask them, "Who are you in love with then?"

There is ALWAYS someone else in the picture when you hear this.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

What

Good Luck on your Journey.

You sound so much more positive than your early posts.

Let her go. She is clearly not worth it.

HM64


----------



## What is next? (Sep 8, 2011)

I feel more like myself now than I have in a long time. The weight is gone from my shoulders. I don't have to try to fix this anymore. It suprisingly feels good. I think it's because I am sure about something and that hasn't been the case for a while. I am sure it will get tougher but for now I feel good.

Meeting with attourney Thurs.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Could you tell us if you did anything to try and find out if she really quit the affair? How did she fool you? Did she ever stop at all?

What is she saying now? Is the OM married? 


His wife she be told


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Just wondering how long of a marriage was this?


----------



## What is next? (Sep 8, 2011)

I have been married for 9 yrs. We dated for 3 yrs prior to marriage, so a 12 year relationship. We have no children due to fertility issues that may have led to the affair in the first place. The other man is divorced and has a daughter.

I believe, but am not 100% sure that she gave him up for a month or 2 before he contacted her at work and they were at it again. She is a teacher and her biggest deceite was leaving earlier for work then she really needed to. He works at night and she would go and see him before her work in the a.m. I honestly thought her school started at 8, found out it starts at 9 and she went to see him most morinings. I also travel occassionally for work and I know they were together then. 

After the first D-day, "we" took many steps to ensure no contact such as changing cell phone numbers, informing a few close friends for support, got parents involved, etc. We have been in counseling the entire time. That is the most disapointing thing. I felt we were both working very hard for the past year to rekindle our relationship. As it turns out, I was alone in the effort. The truth of the matter is short of a straight jacket there is nothing you can do to keep them from cheating if they want to. The decission has to be theirs and they have to want to change. 

Now she is begging for me to come back again. She is making promises and pledges of all kinds. It almost makes me sick to my stomach how similar these statements are to the first go around. I can't think of anything she could do or say that would change my mind. As much as I love her still, trust is not in the cards for us and a marriage must have trust. 

I drew the line in the sand after the first D-day and she crossed it. I won't go back now. I wish I would have dicovered her obvious lack of commitment 6 months ago so I could have moved on then. At 34 I think I still have a decent shot at love and maybe even a family. Always look on the bright side, right.


----------



## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

What,

I know the sound of thast "I made a mistake. I want to be with you quite well". Be happy to be out of this relationship and look forward to the next. Trust me. It does get better!


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Good luck to you. Sorry this all came back. I guess for many of us it is our worst nightmare. Do the work of R only to get bit again. I am hoping for the best for me and hope your future turns out bright my friend. Sorry you are going through this.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

I'm sorry that you're going thru this, but I'm glad that you can see it for what it is and are taking steps to prepare yourself for the next phase in your life. It will get better.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

stoney96 said:


> you need to sit down and write a list of your needs, and then have a frank discussion with her about what it will take for you to move on with reconciliation.
> 
> Both of you also need to seek out a councilor to move forward as well.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

What is next? said:


> She is a teacher and her biggest deceite was leaving earlier for work then she really needed to. He works at night and she would go and see him before her work in the a.m. I honestly thought her school started at 8, found out it starts at 9 and she went to see him most morinings. I also travel occassionally for work and I know they were together then.


Can you have her served upon coming to the school in the morning?


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

34 years young still!!!


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

What is next? said:


> At 34 I think I still have a decent shot at love and maybe even a family. Always look on the bright side, right.


Absolutely brother!


----------



## What is next? (Sep 8, 2011)

I am not looking to be vindictive. I just want out. I know she is not in a good place emotionally and no need to be petty. I live in a no-fault state, but we have agreed, in theory, to a un-contested divorce. Keep her happy, get it done, and move on. That's the plan.


----------



## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

What was her excuse this time around?


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

What is next? said:


> I am not looking to be vindictive. I just want out. I know she is not in a good place emotionally and no need to be petty. I live in a no-fault state, but we have agreed, in theory, to a un-contested divorce. Keep her happy, get it done, and move on. That's the plan.


Well in divorce there is no nice way. If you keep it amicable with her don't you think you'll fall for her lies again? Are there many assets involved for you to want to keep her happy?


----------



## What is next? (Sep 8, 2011)

I haven't really been looking for excuses. I don't want to know. My distance is keeping me sane. We haven't communicated well since the infertility. 

I tried to be strong for her and act as if everything was fine after failed fertility treatments. She thought because I was acting this way that I did not care. She in turn kept her pain to herself to protect me. The rest is what it is.

After the first D-day I thought we were working on learning how talk again but it is hard to build relationship bridges with a spouse when they are building them with someone else. I knew it wasn't going that well and felt like a failure. Now I know I didn't stand a chance. I was playing against a stacked deck. At least it makes sense to me now.

We have some assets at stake but I think I am in good shape.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What is next? said:


> I have been married for 9 yrs. We dated for 3 yrs prior to marriage, so a 12 year relationship. We have no children due to fertility issues that may have led to the affair in the first place. The other man is divorced and has a daughter.
> 
> I believe, but am not 100% sure that she gave him up for a month or 2 before he contacted her at work and they were at it again. She is a teacher and her biggest deceite was leaving earlier for work then she really needed to. He works at night and she would go and see him before her work in the a.m. I honestly thought her school started at 8, found out it starts at 9 and she went to see him most morinings. I also travel occassionally for work and I know they were together then.
> 
> ...


I didn't even get married till I was 33. (I liked to play)

I've raised two wonderful kids, coached about twenty youth league teams and wouldn't change a thing.

You have plenty of time. The only reason she wants you is he won't/can't commit to her. Tell her good luck with her just being his piece of __________. And tell her she doesn't know sh!t about men, especially good men.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

What,

Trust your gut. It has not failed you yet.

Get your D finalized. Secure your assets. Move forard and find a woman who does not play games.

Your wife blew it. You know it. She knows it.

Time for you to start a new journey. One that will be more fulfilling than the last one. A journey that will have a happy ending.

I did this over 20 years ago and have never looked back.

Good Luck,

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ballin21 (May 4, 2012)

I commend you on your growth and confidence when compared to your first post. I am going through similar situtation right now only that I dont know length of time the affair/ her "friendship", as she never admitted, went on for. When I went through divorce proceedings there is no nice way of doing it. I was always the nice guy in my group of friends and trust me she knows that. My ex wanted to clean me out and only after an 8 month marriage. My attorney told me she had never seen such a sense of entitlement as she made just a bit less than I did. It was messy! Mine went even as far as to call the police on me saying I threatened her! Be lucky you dont have kids and you wont have to see her again. There are other fish in the sea and Im starting to see that now. When youre in the forest all you see are trees, eventually you will get out.

Good Luck!


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> My wife has been a pretty straight shooter for all of her life and I think due to many circumstances including not being able to have kids, she cracked and stepped out.


This was how you understood the affair the first time around. Hence you opted for R. When the deceit continued, you realized that the woman you thought you knew ceased to exist. She isn't what you thought she was. Good for you sir that you realize the reality of the situation. Without the trust, there is no marriage or relationship. Has she offered any explanations on why she continued to cheat inspite of all the work you were doing for the marriage


----------



## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

What is next? said:


> I feel more like myself now than I have in a long time. The weight is gone from my shoulders. I don't have to try to fix this anymore. It suprisingly feels good. I think it's because I am sure about something and that hasn't been the case for a while. I am sure it will get tougher but for now I feel good.
> 
> Meeting with attourney Thurs.


I've witnessed the emotional devastation that infertility can inflict on women. She made the decision to seek validation elsewhere. Not really uncommon. It was really never yours to fix, and the fix she sought was the wrong one. Good to you that you can see this and move on.


----------



## What is next? (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm not exactly sure why she decided to go back to the OM. I have asked her, but I don't even really want to know. The more I know the more my nature is to try to fix. As long as it is broken and I know I can't/won't fix it, I can move on. 

She did say that the first time around she felt as if the decission to leave the OM and work on us had been made for her. Our parents, a few firends, marriage counselor, and me were all telling her what to do and how. What a terrible mistake that was. As I stated earlier in my 5 things learned, if you want R to work you have to let them do it on their own. Give them space and hopefully they will see the error of their ways and what is really important.

Another thing I think I did was express a willingness to work very hard at R. I don't think she thought I would ever leave. My advice would be, no matter how willing you are to work hard at saving your marriage, take it one day at a time. Even if you feel differently, make them think they are on thin ice. Act as if you could take it or leave it and be fine either way.

Hind sight is 20/20, but live and learn.


----------



## Nicole R (May 11, 2012)

Lots of relationships hit snags, and problems that you don't think you will be able to overcome. Becoming aware of the way you think and behave and then replacing it with more productive thoughts and behaviours takes effort, but it can drastically improve the state of your relationship and help you to overcome a great deal of relationship challenges. This practice involves using your brain's plasticity to strengthen connections with certain (preferred) behaviour patterns, and the more it is practiced, the stronger the connections get. 
There is something The NEXT Program offers, a Program for Couples & Families, that uses your brain's plastic functions to guide you and your partner to having a happy, fulfilled relationship, in 24 weeks, if you so choose. If you decide that you want to separate, The NEXT Program will help you using its methodology and foundations in collaborative law, to do so amicably with minimal financial and emotional impact on you and your family. It offers something traditional therapy doesn't--results, whether you stay together or separate.
Check out the website, it's definitely worth a look.
The NEXT Program - Beyond Marriage Counseling & Couples Therapy


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What is next? said:


> I'm not exactly sure why she decided to go back to the OM. I have asked her, but I don't even really want to know. The more I know the more my nature is to try to fix. As long as it is broken and I know I can't/won't fix it, I can move on.
> 
> She did say that the first time around she felt as if the decission to leave the OM and work on us had been made for her. Our parents, a few firends, marriage counselor, and me were all telling her what to do and how. What a terrible mistake that was. As I stated earlier in my 5 things learned, if you want R to work you have to let them do it on their own. Give them space and hopefully they will see the error of their ways and what is really important.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure she can come up with a pretty decent excuse the 3rd time too if she wants to. Your wife fell off the pedestal that you put her on all through the marriage. She will definitely try to get back there. But once you lose that respect for that person and without the kids, it will never be the same and it is better to move on


----------

