# Wife at unease



## irrelevant

Hi to all, after reading through quite some threads, I decided to share my story in order to perhaps receive a different opinion on a matter which I can't seem to handle mentally on my own. I am not sure if this is the right subforum, but intuitively I am placing it here. This is a real life story, and neither side is innocent. It's not about determining who is guilty. Just looking for some first hand advice on how to handle emotions.

Wife and I met 12 years ago, we were both 22 yrs old college students, coming into a relationship clean and single, with past relationships at least half a year behind us. Wife is a very attractive woman by any criteria (was and still is, maybe even more) and gets a lot of attention, and I am also not that bad but as an introvert man I don't really get women falling all over me. Beforehand I had only one sexual partner (relationship of about half a year) and she had five (one long term, two shorter and two ONS). When we started dating we took it the nice way and even though the spark was just waiting to explode from the first second we met, we only had sex after a month of frequent dating. After that it was mostly sex night and day and the relationship hasn't lost it's sexual tension up to day.

In the first few months we had some issues with her saying I am not showing enough affection which made her think that I am not that into her, but we both just jumped on every chance to be together as often as we can. But there have been things happening already. I have continued to correspond online from time to time, it was a college days habit which I couldn't get out of my system. She found out about it and we had our first real fight. It was tough few weeks for both but given the intensity of our relationship I just told her I want to be with her forever and she felt the same. So we went through this phase, her resenting me regularly and some days were tough, but still we wanted to be together as much as we could. Sex night and day all the time. Walks, dates, and sex again.

Inevitably, she got pregnant. We didn't actually use protection so it didn't come as such a surprise. Although shocked, we decided to tell the families and we rented in together and got married (2006). We were both genuinely happy with that marriage. By the end of the year our daughter was born (looks just like little me).

Life was really tough on us at the time, we gave our best to give love and care to our baby, we tried to push it through colleges, I tried to work so consequently dropped out of college, we were fighting each other a lot and there was much resentment. Money was short all the time. Never critical but the future was insecure. Sex continued to be above average. During those fights a lot of bad things came out, amongst them her confession that she met up a few times with her ex at the beginning of our relationship. Up to day she claims it was just for talk and that she seeked advice from him on how to understand me. Up to day I don't get the logic but I do still believe her.

2 yrs into our marriage she graduated (2008). I gave my best to give her space to study and she did it superbly. But in our country it is difficult to land a job, so after graduation she struggled to get a job, which made her feel depressed. The situation between us got more difficult, constant tensions and fights. But love was still proclaimed and sex life was good. I tried to make it a family life, trips on Sundays and so on, but she always made it difficult. Nothing was good enough for her. Up to day nothing never is, she complains all the time. Afterwards she apologizes sometimes, but she always reacts compulsively. She has always been and stayed difficult to please.

I took on all sorts of jobs to keep us above water and she stayed at home with our daughter. I worked for a telephone survey company and there I met a very attractive girl who gave me her number so she could teach me some dance moves. Next day I quit the job and deleted the number. Wife was angry at me and I never told her why I quit. My next job was for a company who was producing telephone recordings sort of a hotline. I got the job due to my appealing voice. So I did a few gigs, the money was good, we just 

sat there a few guys and girls and talked regular stuff and the girls moaned a bit and it was actually not sexual at all, but I started to like one of the girls. So I quit the job. Wife angry again. Again she knew not why. Up to day I never ever crossed the line letting myself be attracted to a woman. It doesn't happen often, but at the first sign I just turn and never look back. Works like a charm.

Then in 2010 my wife landed a job. A good one. Her father managed to pull some connections. So she went off to work and in the meantime I already went back to college, might I add my faculty being recognized as one of the toughest. Things started to look bright but I had the feeling that I am not that worthy in her eyes anymore. She got hit on at her job all the time. When I took the kids for holiday to family in the seaside, she stayed in the city and went on a date with a coworker. Admitted to it, said he wanted to have sex but way sleazy and that she would never do it. Just wanted to spend Saturday evening not alone. Life went on. Sure we somehow got along but we kept postponing second child and still we stayed in a rented place. 

End of 2011 I graduated and started to look for a real job. We both hoped for a better future but she became more and more nervous. Fights were 
every day, sex almost every day. And in spring of 2012, she suddenly started to act differently. It took me a few days to realise something is really going on, so I pressed her and she admitted that a new coworker has joined their office and she feels like she is connected to him in a surreal way (past lives etc). At home she seemed absent and just waited for the next morning. Next days were hell for me. She initiated contacts with him but he was unwilling to make a move on her cause he was getting married soon and seemingly had his bliss going on, but that didn't keep him to have fun turning her hots on from time to time. I was emotionally devastated. I was in a place I never been before, I even found myself to be turned on by the situation (like in a 
cuckold way), but the feelings were mixed. She kept saying that she loves me in a way but she feels that she has to start over. Who knows what would have happened if the guy reacted the same way. This way it was just hell day after day. One moment she will stay with me, the other she doesn't know. She openly told me what was happening each and every day. She said she wanted us to go for anothe baby so in May 2012 we started working on another baby.

I landed a job by summer 2012. She declared otpimism and things were going better but she still had downfalls into her obsession from time to time. I found that difficult to handle and insisted that she cleares things out. So in autumn 2012 she openly offered herself for him to have sex with her and he declined. Wife went for sick leave, went into therapy, got a PD diagnose and was on medication for some time. It was traumatic for both of us, but 2013 started as a new beginning for us. She was finally out of the fog with that guy. Year went good but she still couldn't get pregnant. 

In 2014 she finally got pregnant. It seemed to make things move forward. I switched jobs, she went on leave and early into 2015 we got our second daughter (looks just like her sister - no doubt in universe - they are both mine). By the end of the year things started to look bad in my company and I quit the job (because salary wasn't coming for months). Early 2016 wife went back to her job and I looked for another job. And in summer 2016 I took on a job abroad. Great money, but coming home 4 times a year for 10-20 days. I saw it as an opportunity to lift our life to a standard that makes her happy. So I went off, we were all suffering heavily. All we talked about is finding the right time to end this separation. And I decided to quit on June 1 and come home to be with my family. And here we come to (almost) present time.

Few weeks ago we found an apartment to buy. We have some cash, got a loan granted for the rest, things were looking good. This was something she always wanted. So I came home to handle the formalities (still to be finished). 3 weeks ago she got the chance to participate at a business conference she longed to be invited to for years. I was happy for her and supported her to go. I stayed at home with the kids and she went. The conference was all but business. It was 3 days of partying day and night, she went out with her bunch every night and texted me. On the last night she didn't text me at all
until noon tomorrow. That afternoon she got back and I picked her up and she was very nervous. I've been there, it was clear what's going on. Long story short, she got drunk, danced and groped at a club (allegedly no kiss) with a guy from her company she didn't meet before (big company), he invited her to his room, she declined (got her period that night but claims she would decline anyway). She got home, infatuated, he was so strong, so this so that. She loves me but she wants something with him. All the same bollocks again. I got upset, hurt, excited and crushed all at the same time.

But I had to go abroad for a few weeks again before I come home for good. She said she will take no action but of course, she met up with him near work during breaks. Two times. (Note that she tells everything to me, she says that I am controlling and that I am violating her privacy but she still keeps talking). So he is married and would like to have her but is afraid that his pregnant wife might find out about the affair. So I said to her from 1500 miles away to get a grip, to do the right thing for our marriage. I packed my things up and headed homw without notice to her. Next day, whilst I was on
the plane, she met up with him again. I knew it will happen and came home in the afternoon. When she entered the apartment she was shocked. She did come and started to hug and kiss me but first just stood for a few seconds with this weird look on her face like she doesn't know how she is shocked about seeing me. She admitted she met up and that she asked him is he in or out, he wiggled and she got angry at him and claims he doesnt attract her because of that any more. And that now she is fully concentrated on our marriage. Need I say that sex is better that ever?

I am facing consequences at work for leaving so abruptly but perhaps it will be OK. I may be given a chance to work in my hometown for the same company. If not I can get another job. This or next week we are due to sign the contract for the apartment. But where my marriage is headed I don't know anymore.

I love her and I want to stay with her, and she claims the same. I finally decided to go into therapy, but I can't get any before August. And I just can't handle this alone any more.


----------



## hylton7

you sound like a doormat tell the other man's wife


----------



## bryanp

Until the next time she finds someone attractive.

You are indeed acting like a doormat. Women do not find doormats
attractive. She already told you she is attractive to strong men and 
you continue to act like a weak man. She knows that she can become
sexually involved with another man and there will be very little consequences
from you. How can she respect you if you do not respect yourself?

If you do not respect yourself then who will?


----------



## turnera

Wait. She tells you she's screwing another guy, or wanting to, and YOU are violating her privacy?

Aside from that, listen to her. She tells you that you are weak.

Believe her.

Women are biologically drawn to strong men. Goes back to caveman days. We NEED strong men. Strong physically, financially, emotionally. Sounds like you've been bouncing all over the place trying to please her - no good jobs, no good money, no strong home front - and each time you do, you look a little weaker until she'd rather cheat and TELL YOU because she thinks you're such a doormat.

Read this book: No More Mr Nice Guy. Then come back and tell us what you learned.

And in the meantime, tell her that if she sees one more man besides you, you'll be taking the kids and moving out. That should hold her off for a little bit.


----------



## Primrose

I see nothing appealing about this woman. She is constantly looking for someone better and "settling" for you in the meantime. I mean no offense to you in that regard- you seem to be a great husband and father, although you continuously allow her to keep you around as an option while she looks for someone else. You allow her to be unfaithful.. and make no mistake, she has undoubtedly had sex with other men at this point- yet she knows all she has to do is trickle truth you and you will drop the subject. 

You are with her, why? Because the sex is still good? Of course it is. She is fantasizing about other men while laying with you. That's why she is still so consistently sexually active with you.

Are you content being her second choice? You've given your wife no reason to change. You have proved, time and time again, that you will let her infidelities slide.


----------



## VladDracul

Why don't you go right ahead and admit it Irrelevant, you enjoy being a cuckold and having her tell you how much she wants to bang other guys. If you'd had more poon tang before marrying this jackal you'd know she does it the same as the others. Besides, she sure gets turned down by a lot of guys she offers it to. BTW, your screen name suits you my man.


----------



## MattMatt

You are not in the USA, or the UK, (well, I don't think so!) so my advice to you is limited as you haven't told us where you are.

I think you should see a lawyer. And get the children DNA tested. And get yourself tested for STDs.


----------



## Thound

What a *****


----------



## aine

I think you have to man up and tell her that no wife of yours will be involved with OM in any shape or form.
Tell the OM wife what is going on,
tell your wife you go for MC, this is her last chance. If you get a whiff of any inappropriate behavior you are filing for divorce, there will be some woman out there who will adore you and you alone will be enough.
You need to explore in therapy why you are putting up with this behavior.


----------



## Marc878

You're allowing yourself to be played.

Swallowing lies won't get you much. You're in deep denial.

This is the rest of your life with her. Open marriage on her end.

DNA the kids.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

I have no comments


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hope1964

MattMatt said:


> I think you should see a lawyer. And get the children DNA tested. And get yourself tested for STDs.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## FeministInPink

You have good boundaries, and clearly your wife does not. Do you live in a country where infidelity is socially acceptable? 

The point is, only she and she alone is responsible for her behavior and her infidelities. But you are letting her get away with it! Why? Because the sex is good? Guess what? You may not realize this, since you only had one partner before her, but you can have really amazing sex with someone who doesn't treat you like crap. 

You need to let her know that her behavior is unacceptable, and you will no longer tolerate it. If she wants to stay married to you, then she needs to STOP IT, start acting like a faithful wife, and go with you to marriage counseling. (And she needs IC to figure out why she engages in such self-destructive behavior.) If she balks or refuses to cooperate, then you need to be prepared to walk and divorce her. Boundaries mean nothing if you're not willing to enforce them.

And yes, get yourself tested for STDs, and as much as you don't want to, get the kids DNA tested.

Have you familiarized yourself with the divorce laws in your country? You may do better in the divorce if you have proof on infidelity. Don't confront her until you have your proof and it's saved somewhere she can't get to it, because she will delete and hide everything once she knows you're serious.


----------



## Andy1001

What the **** is wrong with you!
Your wife is offering herself to every guy she finds attractive and you sit and listen to her telling you about it.You are either a fan of the cuckold life or else you better start learning to be.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Toss her out the door ASAP. Tell her it is you or him. Divorce papers now. Strong action in your part is required. Quit being a sap sir.


----------



## harrybrown

Stop the pick me dance.

File for D. and remove yourself as one of her many choices.

Stop having sex with her . Your lawyer will tell you that if you have sex with her that your filing for D based upon her Affair is out the window.


Have her go live with her lovers. She is lying to you. She has had more than the two lovers.

Get her out of your life.

Start the 180 and start healing, by getting her out of your life. She is not beautiful. Look deep inside, she is an ugly cheater. You are no longer a choice for her to be her backup. 

If you are not her first choice, then you are not an option. And you are not her first choice.


Expose to her family and to yours. and see your attorney now.


----------



## MJJEAN

Most women have a "type". We tend to like certain physical characteristics and choose our lovers from among men who have those traits. Just because your kids look like you and each other doesn't mean they are both yours. If your wife was screwing a man of her type, he'd look like you and so would his child. Do the DNA test to be sure.


----------



## Tron

What PD does she have?

You have good strong boundaries. Your W does not. 

She likes attention from men and is addicted to the high of the "new" relationship. We call it limerance. It makes her feel good, feel alive in ways your relationship doesn't. You being gone so much makes this a lot worse for her. 

IMO, if you are going to stay with her, you are going to have to stay close to home and be very patient. She needs some serious long-term therapy for the PD, because if she is unable to regulate those emotions, eventually she will have an affair on you. The situation isn't going to get better without therapy. And if she doesn't get her act together and she continues to cycle through the same old patterns, she is going to destroy her marriage. 

You need to determine if you want to stick around for all that or just call it a day, move back home, file for D and go for custody of the kid(s).


----------



## skerzoid

In what country do you live? Is it customary to let your wife have the freedom to try out other partners as she seems to be doing? Is she so wonderful that you can see no other life without her? You have to willing to lose your relationship to save it. She is. And as long as she is in control, your life will be miserable.


----------



## manwithnoname

She will never change, no matter what you do. She has had a lot more than the 2 ONS that you were told. She already chose the other guy when she asked him to make up his mind. You are Plan B to every other guy she wants to ****.

This is all true.


----------



## SunCMars

A One Post wonder...

Driven in the ground, like a big finger...beckoning the willing fools.


----------



## Be smart

irrelevant said:


> Wife is a very attractive woman by any criteria (was and still is, maybe even more) and gets a lot of attention, and I am also not that bad but as an introvert man I don't really get women falling all over me.


This is your problem. You think she is better then you are. You think she doesnt have to do any hard stuff in your Marriage because she is beautiful,hot or whatever. There is milions of Women like your Wife. Go for a walk and you will see them,but they treat they Husbands with respect. 

You let her do what ever she wants. FOR WHAT ??? You think your Marriage is good because your Wife let you bang her once in a while !!! 
Respect yourself my Friend. 

I dont want to sound rude or something like that,but you are a weak Man,sorry.


----------



## turnera

AND you feel 'lucky' that she would pick you. 

Time to fix YOU. Once you do that, she will come around.

Are you in therapy?


----------



## Malaise

Andy1001 said:


> What the **** is wrong with you!
> *Your wife is offering herself to every guy she finds attractive* and you sit and listen to her telling you about it.You are either a fan of the cuckold life or else you better start learning to be.


And, they have all refused. 

OK then.


----------



## irrelevant

Hi again and thank you all for your inputs. I am a bit short of time due to work and chores but will try to answer some questions asked.

In my country there is no special view on infidelity, it is a standard western civilization EU country. Divorce laws are oriented to protecting the kids first, then the woman. Fathers rarely get fair treatment.

I admit my family and my wife to be my weakness. Outside the house, especially at work I fight hard to achieve success and all I achieved was without anyone's help. I received recognition and credit for that from a lot of people including my wife, but even so she never stops complaining. I might as well say I am physically fit, and mentally strong above average. But I do admit having a soft spot in my mental system, otherwise obviously I wouldn't be going through this.

As fot STDs, we ran tests when she had her second pregnancy, way after having her first wannabe affair, they all turned negative. As for DNAing the kids, I also see no point cause she was never alone during her cycle days at these points. Even if the kids turned out to be from some other man, I do love them with all my heart and would not let anything stand in the way of that.

As for recent events, I managed to schedule therapy for myself. Wife saw the email and freaked out at me furious that I would go and discuss our private life with unknown people. I also asked her a few more questions about her latest affair (I admit being a bit unpleasant), to which she responded by stating that she feels ill, that I am pressuring her and that she wants to leave the house for a few days. She is now at home sleeping (it's afternoon here), and she told me an hour ago that if she ends up on therapy again then I won't be seeing her ever again (nor the kids).

Her stories on the events regarding affairs seem legitimate and true, but if I was to find out she has been lying I would definitely be up for divorce. This way I do sympathise with her and hope that she will get better.

I mostly agree with the claims from some of you here that I could have great sex with other women too. I disagree about her being absent in her head during sex, due to details I will spare here and also her affectionate behaviour just after waking up. Her eyes tell me she is happy. But from the moment she starts to dress up for work, she begins to change.

As for cuckolding, she shows no interest in it and even if I wanted it, I don't see it happening. But me having a reaction to that doesn't mean wanting it. People do get reactions even while being severely violated which doesn't mean they are enjoying it or want it to happen again. It is a defense mechanism. I understand some of you guys feel more emotionally independent and I respect that. I obviously have a weak spot which is turning my life to hell.

So, she just wants me to let this all go, assuring me that it is all over and won't be happening again, cause if it does, she thinks she will have to be comitted to a mental institution for a while. I asked her why she didn't even apologize, and she just said didn't I? and went about her business. I can't help but feel she feeds of my suffering and is using my need to keep family together as a weapon during our arguments.

As much as a shock it might come around here, I don't believe that abandoning people you love because of their mistakes is the right thing to do. What I cannot handle is the amount of pressure and insanity in this situation and I can't think clearly.

I will not be telling the OMs pregnant wife cause I don't want to ruin any lives, even though it is peculiar my wife is strongly against me contacting him which she thinks I might be doing. Admit to have been thinking to assault him but this is not about him, at least not anymore if it ever even was. He is just a fragment of the pattern. This decision would of course change if I saw them together. Luckily I would hardly recognize him on the street anyway. 

I will try to go to therapy to get mind straight eve though last time I went regarding some work related issues it ended up with the psychiatrist complaining to me about her career and salary.


----------



## turnera

irrelevant said:


> I managed to schedule therapy for myself. Wife saw the email and freaked out at me furious that I would go and discuss our private life with unknown people.


A strong man's response would be "Too bad."

And to this:


> I also asked her a few more questions about her latest affair (I admit being a bit unpleasant), to which she responded by stating that she feels ill, that I am pressuring her and that she wants to leave the house for a few days


 it would be "Go ahead. The kids stay here."

btw, don't go to a psychiatrist; that's just a doctor who prescribes drugs. Go to a psychologist.

And fwiw, you're not being uniformly told to leave her. That's not your only solution. Not even the best one, since you have kids. Your BEST solution is to keep going to that psychologist and start learning how to be a strong, self-loving, self-assured man who won't let his wife walk all over him.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Now you really have me wondering what country you are from. There is no such thing as a standard EU western country. The Swedes are markedly different from the Italians for example. Even the north of Italy is different from the south. Spaniards deal with stuff differently from their neighbouring France when it comes to infidelity. The UK is different from nearly all of them (sorry fellow Europeans) and Holland is particularly laid back. Like southern Italians, Serbs and Greeks are very passionate about infidelity while Germans don't like it but are more accepting. However …. none of them are natural cuckolds which is what you appear to be!

Forget about defence mechanism - she is treating you like [email protected] and you are letting it happen!!!! She has the hots for just about everyone she meets especially if they are rough and dominant with her. And she blames you for it. The threat she made is vile - if she finds she is therapy for depression, she is blaming you and threatening to never let you see your kids again !?!?!? WTF !?!?!? You should be treating her as the enemy right now and securing stuff, protecting yourself and your kids etc.

Don't put up with this [email protected] for even one more minute. Get your balls back and get a move on in terms of dumping her. I will ask again - what country are you from and what is the divorce process like ?


----------



## badmemory

irrelevant said:


> I can't help but feel she feeds of my suffering and is using my need to keep family together as a weapon during our arguments.
> 
> I don't believe that abandoning people you love because of their mistakes is the right thing to do.
> 
> I will not be telling the OMs pregnant wife cause I don't want to ruin any lives.


I hesitate to use the word "Beta" male any more, because it's such a cliche'. But friend, you are just that and then some. Perhaps it's somewhat a cultural thing, but mostly I think it's because you are co-dependent and like to revel in your pain.

No reasonable man would stay in a marriage like this with such a toxic wife; family not withstanding. Get some counseling for your issues.


----------



## Marc878

You are as weak as a kitten. This will be the rest of your marriage.

Wake up


----------



## VladDracul

Irrelevant, has it dawned on you that your wife may need these other men to make her happy? If that's the case, why are you complaining? She's not exactly trying to keep it from you. In "womanese" she is telling you she needs more "attention" from the opposite sex than you can provide and by tell you is basically saying, " I don't mind being married, but I'm not going to be hamstrung by this marriage. The ball is in your court if you can't deal with it." 
Although you're not exactly happy with the situation, deep down you believe sharing her occasionally is worth having her remain as your wife. Ain't nothing anyone can tell you that going to stop her interest in getting a little on the side nor get you to do the only thing possible to change your situation and that would be to get rid of her. You're in a open marriage, at least on her end, so you might as well just admit it and go with the flow and quit complaining about something you're not willing to change. Whatever you expect from us we ain't gonna be able to provide.


----------



## 86857

You don't need therapy. You need to leave. 
Don't get connected to her financially any more than you are now. Try to cancel the purchase of the apartment. 
She sounds like a narcissist - they don't change - ever - which is already clear by now. 
She seems to get attracted to guys who are just about to get married or whose wives are pregnant.
What does that tell you? Can't get much lower than that. 
But you're used to the situation after all these years - frog in the boiling water.

So are you going to spend the next 10,20,30 etc years living a tortured life? 
Read up on what a healthy marriage looks like.


----------



## Malaise

irrelevant said:


> I will not be telling the OMs pregnant wife cause I don't want to ruin any lives, even though it is peculiar my wife is strongly against me contacting him which she thinks I might be doing. .



You aren't the one ruining anything. It is your W and her OM doing that so get that idea out of your head. That's just a rationalization for you to do nothing.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

irrelevant said:


> I will not be telling the OMs pregnant wife cause I don't want to ruin any lives, even though it is peculiar my wife is strongly against me contacting him which she thinks I might be doing.


The longer she lives in ignorance with a cheater, the greater the chance of her life being truly ruined. He may bring her a disease. She will likely find out eventually, but not until she has another kid or two. When she does find out, she would rather think she threw away just a few years than a decade or more. 

If you truly have any real concern for the OW, you'd be exposing to all, her included, post haste. The intense, short term pain is infinitely preferable to the alternative. Avoiding it is just a cop out.


----------



## turnera

True. By the time his wife finds out she will be STUCK because of more kids or less money or less employability. That's on YOU.


----------



## irrelevant

Once again I want to state that I appreciate all the inputs, reading through other threads I always had the impression that comments were too harsh, too radical, but I don't feel that way in this thread and I feel like different views are helping me get a better grip on myself in this situation.

Try to answer some questions first. Cultural environment in my country is that infidelity is not enticed but is of course known to be widely spread and it doesn't count as a particular shame or sin on the outside of the relationship. More frowned upon is divorce, even though the number of divorces rises year by year. But neither infidelity nor divorce affect the functionality and acceptance of an individual in the society. Therefore there is no obstacles to be faithful, cheat, divorce, reconcile except of those within protagonist of individual stories.

I am not keen on telling the OMW due to couple of reasons. I already said I don't want to take part in other people's lives cause it affects me in a bad way. Also I would need to hire an investigator to obtain contact information because OM is a low profile guy (coincidentally, as is my wife's first EA target). Also it is turning out that there was no PA here and many husbands do play around up to a point and I am not interested in explaining other people emotions to another people.
@turnera - given the mental state of my wife and consequently also mine, I have found a psychiatrist psychotherapist and scheduled an appointment for myself, because I think a psychologist doesn't have adequate education or experience to recognize the ill part of the story, and there is an ill part, it is not just a story about feelings, and my wife has already been on medication for a while and the same runs in women's line of her family. I have also started to doubt my own perception of the world and from this point of view psychiatrist is way more needed before rather than after.

A lot of you guys here say "dump her and move on". My first and only relationship before marriage ended that way out of the blue the very moment I realised that relationship wasn't leading to anything. This now is a whole other level of commitment including children and I do feel like I need to give it all I can do stick throught this and get in a better place. My marriage of 10 years has not only been trouble as we had wonderful times all throughout it. I must admit that if we hadn't kids together we most probably would have split a long time ago. But even now we still both long for being with each other without the kids (no option to leave them to someone for a few days), fantasizing of going to trips just the two of us (last we went that way she got pregnant), and these periods of her blurrs are not predominant in the means of time but just in the means of stress and hurt. We do still enjoy doing stuff together and we have a way of understanding each other in spite of these dark pits we fall into occasionally which seem to originate also from issues not regarding our relationship. Therefore for me just dumping her without a fight is not an option for me.


----------



## SunCMars

irrelevant said:


> Therefore for me just dumping her without a fight is not an option for me.


Something more powerful than You or I builds the gears in the clock, places them just.. so......

Go ahead, be spun...round and round.

Just keep your eyes on the hands....

The hands of the clock,,,that you are turning.

Time is short...so is this post.


----------



## irrelevant

Update on events. We have intercourse every day. Not just intercourse but good passionate sex. We initiate equally. Actually it's more like we can hardly wait for the kids to go to bed and then we hit the sack too. I haven't watched TV for ages. The other day I asked her has she been thinking about someone else being me whilst we were in the middle of the act, she said she did think about it. But that she didn't want me not being there for real. OK, thinking of other people from time to time whilst having sex with your partner is no sin in my book, but if it is a particular person to which interest has been expressed then it is a whole other thing. She states that she feels attraction to me, she shows affection and I can't quite believe it is only caused by fantasies of other men. I see her respond physically and sensually to me and my actions in bed. Only two nights ago she was a bit nervous and only I "visited Hollywood". Next morning she texted me that she felt ugly to herself perhaps due to not "visiting Hollywood" last night.

Tonight (Friday) my wife is going to a birthday celebration of a female friend, a girls night out in the city type of celebration. I know her, it's also a married woman with two kids, she is no saint but the thing is legitimate and I have no objection what so ever for my wife to have a girls night out from time to time. But there is one detail. At first it was undefined whether it will be on Thursday or Friday so a joke went around that it could be both nights back to back partying. Then the friend notified that it will be Friday (I saw it on my wife's phone - I do snoop unreguarly lately - usually I don't bother to). But my wife kept selling me the story that it might me both days. So i concluded she might be creating a cover (stupid one though) for her to do something else that evening. I could bet parts of my body her idea was to meet up with the OM behind the birthday cover. I just didn't know whether she was communicating it with him or was it just playing out in her imagination. I saw she once again yesterday asked her friend on whatsapp will it be Thursday (already knowing it won't - and as it obviously wasn't), but it seemed to me she just asked that in order to add fuel to her fantasy. I saw no signs of her actually arranging that. Perhaps she tried but the guy refused, or she didn't even act on it. But I couldn't know what is happening and it made me nervous.

I acted wrong in the past few days. I was nervous around her, kept showing signs of anxiety seeing how she dresses up for work etc, I even lifted her skirt one morning to check on what panties she had on, if any. That made her angry. We exchanged a lot of texts during work hours, some of which also made her angry. Going through these texts made me realise I did approach the wrong way, same as I acted. But I couldn't help the feeling I am losing my composure and wanted to clear the air.

So yesterday afternoon I confronted her again. About my suspicions of her staying in contact with OM. She avoiding the answer, then after me insisting a few times for her to give a distinct answer, she denies to be in contact with him ever since last admitted (up to which point she kept admitting it shortly after). She has been texting a lot but also has a lot of texts on her phone to her friends so the level of activity almost adds up. Almost, am I crazy? I just can't seem to get a grip on to trusting her. Even though I see no signs of evidence that she is lying about this.

The confrontation went bad no matter what the truth case behind it might be. She accused me of being controlling and draining life out of her. I insisted that we must be open to each other and I stated my full commitment to this marriage. She stated that she also wants this marriage and sees no better future for herself but admits to having doubts about it.

Then I asked her what is that is sexually attracting her outside of this M. She said that the thought of changing a partner is what attracts her. She claims that she doesn't compare other men to me. That she doesn't feel deprived of anything in particular. She claims she doesn't want children with other men, only with me if any more at all. But admits to be haunted about the idea of having sex with another man/men. She also said that she doesn't want me to participate in these fantasies (or actions in case they come true - to that she added that it won't come true and she has the marriage she has and that's how it will be). So no room for me, no cuckolding, no wifesharing, no threesomes, no talk about her screwing other men, no power exchange games. She said she is angry for me making her tell that to me and that I didn't deserve to know any of that about her. While saying that she was trembling and started to freak out. I asked her if there is anything in sex she wants with other men that she doesn't get with me, and she yelled no. Says that she has no kinks whatsoever on her mind, just sex.

Then she said she is tired of all this talk, tired of me and this marriage and that this needs to stop or she will leave. Then she left the room. I went to the kids room to check on them and stayed to play a bit. I turned around and saw my wife in the hallway looking at me with rage and disgust in her eyes. I called her back to the living room and she sort of repeated what she said before about her not going to take this much longer. Then it came to me. I asked her if she had even apologized to me about this event with this OM. She didn't really answer (she didn't apologize btw). So i asked her does she think she did anything wrong and does she feel sorry for it. She said it was a bad thing to do to our relationship but not wrong. I asked her if it was the other way around would it be wrong, she said yes. That made me angry. She said she just regrets confessing to me but she doesn't feel sorry and thinks I deserved it. That actually hurt me much less than I expected to. I just said OK I'll let it go, we are good, all solved. She continued to babble furiously about us not having to talk about anything anymore, being exhausted by this relationship, my personality, demanding kids, boring life and so on. Usual depression style talk. I didn't actually listen cause I already heard those stories about the world doing wrong to her, heard them thousands of times. So in the middle of it I just stood up and left the room. I took care of some chores and the kids and noticed she fell asleep in the living room.

I started to think she is losing her mind. Me too. And this needs to be stopped. Whether this is depression, BPD, any PD, anything, it started to look very unhealthy. Few weeks before her meeting this OM she had an acute health incident in the middle of the night where things got critical. I handled it until ER arrived and the kids woke up to see parts of it too. I was aware at the moment that we might lose her, but I wasn't afraid. I just felt the threatening emptiness. And seeing her sleep on that sofa again sort of felt the same way, I saw the end of this family in front of my eyes. But this time I was angry. I felt I was treated unjust. I flipped.

When she woke up it was 8:30 PM and I was putting D2 to sleep. We just finished the bedtime routine (all the songs and stuff) and my wife came up to us acting normal. I ignored her except simply answering a few questions and then went to D1 room to talk over her day and next day in school. Wife went to shower. So after the kids fell asleep I also took a shower and when I got back to the kitchen (almost 10 PM) wife was there wanting to talk and cuddle. I acted busy but not rude and then I answered my phone to a good friend of mine (male) and talked about 20 mins cheerfully. usually she would become irritated at me receving calls so late, but last night she was sitting there sipping Baileys and waiting for me to finish and sit with her. So I poured myself a whiskey and took it on foot not talking to her but thinking about the phone conversation. Then I just went off to bed.

She came seconds after me and initiated sex. I first thought of refusing but I thought what the hell so I just let it happen but I didn't care about anything and it was a fun session with some slapping around the bed without a word being said. After we finished I just put on underwear, closed the window and laid down on my side of bed and fell asleep. Without a word.

This morning I continued. Do stuff, talk short, don't care. She talked a lot thorugh the morning (I actually didn't pay much attention unless I heard important keywords), she was laughing and showing me messages from her friend that red lipstick is a must tonight (I just ignored that acting busy). Our routine is me dropping her off at her work and then I continue to my work. When we got to her work she asked for a kiss and I gave her a quick kiss (as usual actually) and she flipped at me saying I am not acting normal. I just ignored that and wished her a good day. Now throughout the day she is texting me but I don't check often and respond short and only with information. She tries to engage in small talk, sends me photos of her lunch etc.

I am aware that I am sitting with my wife in a room full of elephants. And I know there is a storm coming. And I have to prepare myself for it.


----------



## hylton7

she has no respect for you and you have no respect for yourself.
WOMEN HATE WEAK MEN BRO.


----------



## Taxman

Sir, she has no respect for you and frankly she gives every indication of some personality disorders. She needs a dose of reality that will crush her. Let her face a reality without you in it. Right now you supply money and freedom. Her, in a divorce action, draining funds that she will no longer have, should cause reality to crash in on her little fantasy worlds where you allow her to have flings. Since she does not like being a mommy, take the kids to Europe with you, and hire a nanny. Leave her to stew and handle a divorce action. No home, no kids, no husband, no money. That is the frightening reality picture that you should be painting for her right now.


----------



## badmemory

irrelevant said:


> And I know there is a storm coming. And I have to prepare myself for it.


I'm not sure if you mean her storm or your storm, but if it's yours, it's way overdue.

Your wife is manipulating and remorseless. She does not fear divorce. Not because she has better options, but because she knows you will capitulate, just as you always have. She can easily wait out your cold shoulder in the mean time.


----------



## SunCMars

If she has not gone over the edge, you are pushing her. STOP IT!

I do not know what is going on..

She is either trying to assuage your fears of her cheating [put you at ease] or she is trying to gaslight you with hot sex and friendliness [trying to throw you off the trail]

Keep monitoring her..

Keep your damn opinions to yourself. Stop accusing her.

If she is not cheating, she will or she will dump you. Or both.

There are Red Flags and you keep hoisting them up to the top of the mast.

Be silent, run deep with your snooping. Do not push her away without real proof.

Many people have fantasies, most do not act on them.


----------



## Taxman

Sir, you are being gas-lit to a degree not previously seen here. Time to be a man. When she returns from her little weekend jaunt, let her come home to a divorce action pinned to the door of your home with some changed locks. Prepay a sh***y motel room for her, and leave her the key. Let her know that you are done and if she wants to continue to act like a *****, she can conduct business from a motel. Her actions are all on her. BE A MAN AND KICK HER TO THE CURB. Real men do not allow their woman to walk all over them.


----------



## irrelevant

@SunCMars - driving her away with what? I consider meeting up secretly for coffee acting on fantasies.


----------



## Hope1964

Holy crap she's a piece of work!!! She deserves to have her ass kicked from here to next Tuesday!!!! (by that I mean kicked out of the house, not literally kicked in the ass......)


----------



## eric1

Unless you are willing to expose then there is nothing that we can do for you.


----------



## turnera

I give you credit for bringing the subject up. What I'm hoping for is that you actually start NOT caring what she's doing and saying, instead of just acting like you don't.


----------



## irrelevant

Its 4:30 AM... She is not home... Her mobile phone is off (either she turned it off or battery is out)... I am in agony in our bed... Our two daughters are sleeping... I don't know how to take it from here...


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

irrelevant said:


> Its 4:30 AM... She is not home... Her mobile phone is off (either she turned it off or battery is out)... I am in agony in our bed... Our two daughters are sleeping... I don't know how to take it from here...


Call OMs wife to see if he is at home.


----------



## Jus260

Narcissists always seem to find ultra weak people to prey on. There is nothing worse than seeing someone get obliterated by a narcissist. Whenever I read these threads, I always think of this story: https://youtu.be/1Db0uXj-Jas
After all of that, the boy still followed the guy out of the store. 

The OP needs to consult a lawyer to learn his rights. If this woman gets commited, I can't image she would still get custody of the kids. I would hope no country can be that backwards.


----------



## Sparta

OP do you understand what you have to be strong., I hope you decide to, not just evaluate your situation but to take needed action... file for divorce tomorrow... Do the 180 and act like she doesn't even exist if she tries to talk you. Why would you want to be with someone that does not like you or respect you.? That would get to me more than anything more than the betrayal actually... 

Know that horrible feeling you have right now about tramp wife not being home or in bed next to you. it's 4:30 in the morning and you know she's dug out by some other dude. She's even turn off her cell phone that's a big f.uck you... Letting you know she's well aware of what she's doing. Come on guy have some self respect


----------



## eric1

You need to simply go to a lawyer so that you atleast understand your options.


----------



## irrelevant

Update. She came home 6 AM. Tipsy, says it was a great party. I was awake and she apologized for staying that long.

9 AM I found out from her friend they parted ways at 1:30 AM. Confronted her. She had a rage burst, hit me a couple of times saying I have no right to control her. Finally admitted she was with OM guy.

Claims they were at a bar all night, drank, danced, no kissing, denies having sex with him ever. Sticks throughout the story all day long today.

The pathetic part: when she dropped in bed and fell asleep at 6 AM, I smelled her crotch and it was like normal smell from all night. No soap, no condom, no man. So story adds up. Or I am fooling myself.

She claims wanting our marriage and our family, she says she loves us, and wants me to stop controlling her actions towards OM. Threatens leaving if I confront OM or anyone else. Says that she won't be continuing the affair.

I am feeling ill. Haven't eaten, think only about this. I was considering to leave the apartment and file D, but when I see the kids I lose all courage. Also I want to believe her and make this work. But I am hurting so bad and losing my mind and am afraid of what is going to happen next.

Searching for any glimpse of hope.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

irrelevant said:


> She claims wanting our marriage and our family,





irrelevant said:


> Threatens leaving if I confront OM or anyone else.


I know this doesn't contribute to the "glimmer of hope," but those two statements are clearly contradictory to one another. If she was really committed to saving the marriage, she'd have no qualms whatsoever about you confronting OM; in fact she'd be all for it. She'd also be ready for 100% transparency and ZERO late night partying without you. 

Her actions continue to be at odds with her words. 

You really need to get a grip on yourself. Talk to a trusted friend or counselor, now.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

I'm thinking he's the boyfriend and you're the OM


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Marc878

irrelevant said:


> Update. She came home 6 AM. Tipsy, says it was a great party. I was awake and she apologized for staying that long.
> 
> 9 AM I found out from her friend they parted ways at 1:30 AM. Confronted her. She had a rage burst, hit me a couple of times saying I have no right to control her. Finally admitted she was with OM guy.
> 
> She has zero respect for you and she knows she can do as she pleases because you'll do nothing. She's fine with cake eating
> 
> Claims they were at a bar all night, drank, danced, no kissing, denies having sex with him ever. Sticks throughout the story all day long today.
> 
> This will continue. Bank on it.
> 
> The pathetic part: when she dropped in bed and fell asleep at 6 AM, I smelled her crotch and it was like normal smell from all night. No soap, no condom, no man. So story adds up. Or I am fooling myself.
> 
> You are working extremely hard to believe her. Denial is dangerous and paralyzing
> 
> She claims wanting our marriage and our family, she says she loves us, and wants me to stop controlling her actions towards OM. Threatens leaving if I confront OM or anyone else. Says that she won't be continuing the affair.
> 
> Cheaters lie a lot. She's got you exactly where she wants you. Until you change that nothing changes.
> 
> I am feeling ill. Haven't eaten, think only about this. I was considering to leave the apartment and file D, but when I see the kids I lose all courage. Also I want to believe her and make this work. But I am hurting so bad and losing my mind and am afraid of what is going to happen next.
> 
> Searching for any glimpse of hope.


You're doing nothing but clinging to a sliver of hope so you'll get nothing. 

That's what living in fear gets you.


----------



## Marc878

Have you informed OM's wife they were out all night?

I'd bet OM at leadt got a BJ. 

Better wake the hell up here man.


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
You seem to have lost your ability to reason in this situation, which is somewhat understandable. You desire that your family continue as it has been and you find losing that unthinkable. What you must realize is that this family environment comes at a great personal price. The feeling you had last night is the price you must pay to keep your world intact but what you fail to see is that she can blow up that world in an instant. You can continue to suffer as she goes out and does as she pleases but that may not be enough. Soon it may not matter how much you kowtow to her she may decide to go with OM and your world will crumble. She is too immature and self absorbed to be in a committed relationship.

Do you really want your life to be about smelling your wife's panties after one of her nights out? Is that how you want to live? Her proclaiming that you are controlling for requesting that she cut all ties to the OM is laughable. She is the ultimate user and you seem to be the perfect subservient. She has declared, yet again, that she will not continue with the A. How could you possibly believe this after so many lies? I know you are desperate to hold your family together but you must accept that you cannot single-handedly do that, she is an unstable variable that you simply cannot account for. Your reality is that she will continue to do as she pleases therefore you must be willing to accept nights like last night as just something you will have to endure as long as you are with her.

One cannot make another person mature and realize how foolish their behavior is, it is not possible. The only possible way for you to preserve any semblance of marriage is to find something that she dearly treasures and threaten to take it away unless she acquiesces to your wishes. Her "love" for you is not sufficient, her concern for the marriage is not sufficient, her honor, integrity and truthfulness is not sufficient so what you must ask yourself is what is sufficient. At this point, considering her mental underdevelopment, your only recourse is coercion. Is that truly what you want? Consider this carefully because even if you do find some way to manipulate her behavior it may not be permanent and you may find yourself in this situation again, in fact it is highly probable.

Ultimately you have two choices. You can either learn to accept her and relive last night over and over or you can D her and find a woman that cares for you as much as you would her. I wish you good fortune.


----------



## bryanp

If you don't respect yourself then who will? What happened to you?


----------



## turnera

irrelevant said:


> The pathetic part: when she dropped in bed and fell asleep at 6 AM, I smelled her crotch and it was like normal smell from all night. No soap, no condom, no man. So story adds up. Or I am fooling myself.
> 
> She claims wanting our marriage and our family, she says she loves us, and wants me to stop controlling her actions towards OM. Threatens leaving


Tell your boss that you are taking a two-week leave of absence. Check yourself into a mental health facility for a two-week stint to get your head on straight. YOU NEED HELP and you need it NOW.

And you're right - it's pathetic.

Get some help. Some real help.


----------



## Be smart

This must be a troll thread. It is hard for me to imagine any Men acting like this. Maybe I am naive but... come on my Friend. 

Dont hate me for saying this,but this is your fault. You want you Wife to have Affair,you support her,hell you even sound jealous because she will not have a threesome with you and another Man. 

You talk openly about other Men and what she wants to do with them,like wtf. 

Good luck to you.

One day you will have to explain this to you Kids.


----------



## Malaise

irrelevant said:


> The pathetic part: when she dropped in bed and fell asleep at 6 AM, I smelled her crotch and it was like normal smell from all night. No soap, no condom, no man. So story adds up. Or I am fooling myself.


Did you smell her breath?


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Yeah that last post from OP was way over the line of reality for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SunCMars

irrelevant said:


> @SunCMars - driving her away with what? I consider meeting up secretly for coffee acting on fantasies.


Sorry, I spilled my milk sodden Cheerios on my lap....lost my focus!
Yeah, she is cheating. I made the assumption that you want to reconcile..or are willing to reconcile if certain conditions were to occur. 

.........................................................................................................................................
My opinion?

She needs to be ejected at speed. Your two-seater marriage jet plane is heading for the ground.

If you eject her, the plane will be sufficiently lightened, you can then land the thing.....in another life.


----------



## Tomara

What man would smell their wife's crotch for proof she wasn't with someone else? 

I read this site often and don't reply much but your last post flabbergasted me.

You are allowing, did you hear the word allowing? Your wife to disrespect you and your marriage( wait that is not a marriage). I am not sure what excited my feelings about your post but I am truly amazed. I feel very strongly about vows and behavior. Guess I am a pretty black and white gal. Marriage will only work if both are committed. Stand up for yourself man and decide, is this right behavior from a wife and the mother of your children? Really.....

I could give you good advice but you aren't listening to the others here. I am sorry this post hit to close to home. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## irrelevant

I appreciate all your insights.

Update:

We spent the whole weekend together, couple time, kids time, family friends time, like everything is normal. We did have some difficult conversations. And we did get intimate both nights.

Her story says that she was with this OMorwhatevershouldhebecalled and his friends or acquaintances (all male) in a bar. She admitted to flirting with him and also loving attention from other men as well. She denies having sex and her story adds up to any available evidence, but I still can't be sure to trust that. But given the fact that he didn't pursue sex I am troubled by the feeling that she was there for the taking but just not taken. And that feeling also makes me feel really bad. She denies that to be the case but it is even more difficult for me to believe given the course of events.

I asked her if her affair is over. She confirmed it is, but I saw it wasn't easy for her to say that. Was it because she intends to continue, or she wants to continue, or is it her conscience due to her lying, I don't know. She says she sees no purpose or meaning in that affair and that she would not trade her family for that. I noted that her chosen target is unavailabe and maybe that is why she sees no future, but she denies that to be the case. Whole story is far from reassuring for me.

She does state her commitment to this marriage and has asked me several times not to leave her. We had a serious talk about boundaries where I stated that if she was to indulge in occasional flirting and attention exchange (which in my book is not a sin itself if one has clear boundaries and respects them) it is not OK to let that activate her emotions. I kind of explained how I do the same and I saw she understood but I also know that not all people function the same way. She did accept it in words but from my perspective she has prooved not to have control over herself in that field.

In general she is no more and no less responsive or affectionate towards me. When we are together it seems as if nothing had happened, but when she is away from me, things obviously happen. It is clear that if she was able/willing to conceal everything, it would have most probably passed and nobody would get hurt this way. But as the two of us are very close and I always see and know how she feels or at least that she is feeling something out of the ordinary, things couldn't have stayed hidden. Or maybe she subconsciously wanted me to know.

For now, I plan to continue life as it was. Apartment purchase is a go. I decided to stop controlling or spying on her, and see what happens. How to get through the hurt and what will emerge in me after feelings start to settle down, I don't know. I love my wife and I want my family to stay intact, but I also sometimes feel unhappy and insecure.

She says she loves me and she wants to be with me and that she can think of no better man for her and that she is afraid of me leaving her.

I have it all figured out but... I just feel like I am unable to face the future. In any case.


----------



## hylton7

she's lying and is untrust worthy


----------



## Dyokemm

Ummmm.....You believe this ridiculous story about why she was OUT ALL NIGHT and didn't come home til the next morning?

And what could a 'sniff' test really tell you?

She was at his place that morning.....I'm sure he had a shower and some soap.....or the hotel did.

Wake up.


----------



## irrelevant

I do believe her story about being in that bar all night. There are so many details in favour of her not having sex with him (or someone else) and only suspicion in favour of it being the case. I simply "knew" all the way she was in contact with him, and I prooved it. I didn't at any point have the same feeling about her having sex. And I am not ready to divorce her just due to suspicions.

But even so, the image of this marriage has changed to me. I want it to survive, and to be a good marriage. I want my kids to have a family with both parents. I admit to becoming emotionally dependent to her, to this marriage and to this family. But I also fear that staying will make me become cold towards her and that the marriage will sink slowly and deeply into the unhappy.

I see it as a lose-lose situation and I know this attitude is an issue I first have to address within myself.

Today I am quite sure she is not communicating with him. The sad part is that it is probably also due to him not wanting to engage in it completely and it just suited him as it did to her to have each other's company on that particular night. They both want to play it somewhere far away from reality. It seems that they are both aware that they can only lose their lives if they continue. But I don't know from which side the escalation was halted. And she just blew it by not being herself around me which resulted in my discovery of the affair. The pregnant OMW obviously doesn't have the sensors, the connection or the concern, whichever. It is highly probable that they won't be in touch frequently. But that is also a special kind of tension and it is only a question what happens first - either the tension goes away with time (months, years?) or the circumstances lead to contact again. 
@NoChoice - I gave your post a lot of thought. And I do agree to what you said - in her case it is probably the power exchange the only thing that can make her truly committ. And I do feel sad about that. But then again, it seems to me that vast majority of marriages depend on that factor one- or both- sidedly. To be honest, I couldn't guarantee for myself - if I was sure my wife wouldn't leave me, perhaps I would also be more open to affairs. Everybody gets attracted. Not everybody has strong morals. Almost nobody NEVER makes mistakes. Perhaps the consequences ARE that thing that exists to keep us in line. I would love to drive 200 mph all the time but I don't because I fear the consequences. I believe there may be marriages where both partners truly treasure their fidelity and neither one makes a wrong step. But I am also sure that many of them just live in the illusion of that. And that is also what is happening to me now, I am redefining reality. But with a lot at stake.

What confuses me is that she states clearly she doesn't want to lose me. But if she was available for him but just not taken, it doesn't add up. She says that maybe she would have pulled back at the last moment, and that she only was "brave" when she saw that nothing is going to happen. Then on other occasions she says she could go through and have that sex. Bottom line is that she has not yet decided to leave me, and she does feel she gets a lot out of her relationship with me. Is there other, is there more, is it under her control at all... I don't know. 

What I am afraid of is my life and me deteriorating after this. Perhaps we manage to go through all this and then I succumb to an affair. That is not a better place in my book. I am afraid of my own anger making me ill. It also raised my level of energy and I noticed that women look at me with much more interest than when I am calm and passive as I usually am. I have it clear that having revenge sex or an exit affair would be easy as that. And it is a terrifying thought. I don't want it to happen. And I don't know where to vent all this anger.


----------



## GusPolinski

irrelevant said:


> Update. She came home 6 AM. Tipsy, says it was a great party. I was awake and she apologized for staying that long.
> 
> 9 AM I found out from her friend they parted ways at 1:30 AM. Confronted her. She had a rage burst, hit me a couple of times saying I have no right to control her. Finally admitted she was with OM guy.
> 
> Claims they were at a bar all night, drank, danced, no kissing, denies having sex with him ever. Sticks throughout the story all day long today.
> 
> The pathetic part: when she dropped in bed and fell asleep at 6 AM, I smelled her crotch and it was like normal smell from all night. No soap, no condom, no man. So story adds up. Or I am fooling myself.
> 
> She claims wanting our marriage and our family, she says she loves us, and wants me to stop controlling her actions towards OM. Threatens leaving if I confront OM or anyone else. Says that she won't be continuing the affair.
> 
> I am feeling ill. Haven't eaten, think only about this. I was considering to leave the apartment and file D, but when I see the kids I lose all courage. Also I want to believe her and make this work. But I am hurting so bad and losing my mind and am afraid of what is going to happen next.
> 
> Searching for any glimpse of hope.


Classic cheaterspeak.

She's lying.

Also...

Ewww...?!?


----------



## Tatsuhiko

He's not the first person to have had this idea: https://youtu.be/cE5YOVCahcQ?t=43

When you've reached this point in a relationship, it's time to bail.


----------



## turnera

irrelevant said:


> She says she loves me and she wants to be with me and that *she can think of no better man for her* and that she is afraid of me leaving her.


Well, aren't YOU lucky? You're the best catch she can snag at the moment, so - for now - you're the one she's letting pay for her.


----------



## turnera

irrelevant said:


> What confuses me is that she states clearly she doesn't want to lose me. But if she was available for him but just not taken, it doesn't add up. She says that maybe she would have pulled back at the last moment, and that she only was "brave" when she saw that nothing is going to happen.


Why is this so hard for you to understand? The role of a man in *her *life is to make her life easier. Money. Attention. Support. Standing in society. That is your job. 

And your job is only there for as long as you serve that purpose. It has NOTHING to do with love.

And why do you think your role is only temporary? Because you are weak. Insecure. With so little self esteem that you're willing to share your wife (flirting is ok if you need it; wtf?!) so that she doesn't leave you.

When is your first therapy session?


----------



## Malaise

irrelevant said:


> .
> 
> She claims wanting our marriage and our family, she says she loves us, and wants me to stop controlling her actions towards OM. Threatens leaving if I confront OM or anyone else. Says that she won't be continuing the affair.


Translation:

I want to keep doing what I'm doing. You keep being the provider and OM will keep being my man.


----------



## turnera

irrelevant said:


> And I do agree to what you said - in her case it is probably the power exchange the only thing that can make her truly committ. And I do feel sad about that. But then again, it seems to me that vast majority of marriages depend on that factor one- or both- sidedly.


No, most marriages are created because the two people are best friends and create a partnership that is, for the most part, quite equal. And happy. And don't have one person running roughshod over the other one with no care for their feelings. 

Weak people (Givers) attract strong people (Users). You're just the Giver in your marriage. Until you decide you deserve more.

And since you keep bringing up kids, let me ask you. Since kids grow up to be mirror images of their parents and their parents' actions, what do you want your kids to grow up to be? A weak person who attracts someone who's going to metaphorically beat them to a bloody pulp for the rest of their lives? A strong person who's going to use everyone they run into and turn out to be an empty shell of a human? 

Or a semi-healthy person because they've grown up in a divorced family but who see at least ONE of their parents (in your case, the father, hopefully) go through therapy to learn not to need to be a Giver, stand up for their principles (not just suck it up when their spouse cheats cos they're too weak to leave them), and learn that they're ok by themselves and don't have to have a partner to be happy - and therefore attract the right kind of partner?


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Both you and your w appear to lack boundaries and character.

Your comments about speeding and having affairs yourself if you wouldn't get caught demonstrate this.

If you lack boundaries and character, you will be unable to hold your wife to boundaries.

Boundaries are fixed limits you self impose based on your values.

Character is demonstrated by sticking to your values - even when it's hard, causes you pain or harm - because you know it's the right thing to do and you understand right and wrong.

I don't know your upbringing but I suspect you never learned to establish clear values and therefore your character development suffered.

There is still time but you will need help and strength. Unfortunately, the strength it takes comes from within - and it is fueled in part by your values. So it's a bit of a catch 22 for you

We are providing a map for you based on values and boundaries that support an equal, loving, respectful, supportive relationship. All of those characteristics (and more) are important. You can't have a respectful marriage if she's seeing others. You can't have a supportive relationship if she's lying. You definitely do not feel equal because she is walking all over you.

Based on this assessment, we (many/most) don't believe the marriage in its current state is remotely healthy nor worth staying in without significant change


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## turnera

TheTruthHurts said:


> Both you and your w appear to lack boundaries and character.
> 
> Your comments about speeding and having affairs yourself if you wouldn't get caught demonstrate this.
> 
> If you lack boundaries and character, you will be unable to hold your wife to boundaries.
> 
> Boundaries are fixed limits you self impose based on your values.
> 
> Character is demonstrated by sticking to your values - even when it's hard, causes you pain or harm - because you know it's the right thing to do and you understand right and wrong.
> 
> I don't know your upbringing but I suspect you never learned to establish clear values and therefore your character development suffered.


Agreed. I've been reading the Robert B. Parker Spenser novels. I highly recommend them for just this reason. The character Spenser is so fascinating exactly FOR this reason - he has such strong character and even though he's a private eye and occasionally beats someone up or even kills someone, he STILL manages to make all his decisions based on that character and integrity he has. It's very educational, reading his books. I hope you'll give them a try.


----------



## irrelevant

Another update. She is angry. Frustrated with how her life looks like. She says that she was the perfect wife and mother and nobody ever said a good word about her, and that everyone only criticised her. I objected to that and she admitted to that I actually do appreciate and praise her and don't criticise much but still that I sometimes did and that it all is not enough for her. So now she is glad to have done something for herself even if it is not good and she is sick of living her life for others.

Yesterday after work we went together to get some groceries nearby home and for a second I stopped on the street taking a look into a fruit shop window, and she hurried forward and when I caught her up she snapped at me how could I stop there for her to stand so close to that drunk guy. I turned around and I noticed a drunk guy standing on the pavement just trying to maintain himself on his feet. I didn't notice him myself and also he didn't have any interaction towards me nor my wife. We just passed by him and I didn't notice any danger so I told her that I see no problem we are just out on the street, and she said that was typical from me and I am never protective towards her when we are outside. So I asked her why didn't she mind being so close to many drunk and probably more aggressive guys that night in the bar and she gave no answer. Then I asked her if she thinks that her "friend" would protect her better and she said that she knows he also wouldn't protect her. Luckily for us we never encountered real threats of violence but in every case anyone has been disrespectful towards her I stepped in and protected her. She admitted that to be true but still she thinks I am not protective enough.

That all upset me. I started thinking about feew weeks ago when we almost lost her and I took care of her trying to adjust her to a safe position which was difficult due to her cramping and being covered in cold sweat all over. I didn't panic, I gave her the injection and tried to simultaneously watch her and calm our younger daughter until the paramedics came to our home and even then they didn't take over confidently but I had to manage the situation (which she was aware of and remembers). After she got back from her conference she started opening up and at one point she said she danced with that guy and he turned her around a few times easily. I asked her what she wants to say with it and she said like never mind, you couldn't ever hold me that night when I had that seizure. These words really ripped my heart out and I still feel that. So yesterday this situation made me bring it up to her and I asked her does she think her friend would take better care of her that night and she responded she doesn't know. Can anyone here tell me how can a dance wipe all that out?

I admit to have lost my reasoning and I have my first therapy appointment tomorrow but I live in agony of expecting each new second to bring to a disaster and can't get rid of that feeling.


----------



## turnera

So, in other words, your whole marriage, she has b*tched at you, criticized you, and it went on so long that you just never realized how much she was berating you and making you feel like dirt and, like your typical Nice Guy, you just shut up and let her. 

And now you have this.

It's not that a dance wiped that memory out. It's that you have been a doormat your whole marriage so YOU DON'T MATTER. The only kind of man who matters to her is a STRONG man, and you are nowhere near that person.

Please print out this thread and hand it to your therapist today. It will save you two a lot of time figuring out what's going on.


----------



## Edmund

irrelevant said:


> Another update. She is angry. Frustrated with how her life looks like. She says that she was the perfect wife and mother and nobody ever said a good word about her, and that everyone only criticised her. I objected to that and she admitted to that I actually do appreciate and praise her and don't criticise much but still that I sometimes did and that it all is not enough for her. So now she is glad to have done something for herself even if it is not good and she is sick of living her life for others.
> 
> ....
> 
> I admit to have lost my reasoning and I have my first therapy appointment tomorrow but I live in agony of expecting each new second to bring to a disaster and can't get rid of that feeling.


Irrelevant:
Please reconsider buying that apartment with her. What will happen is she, your two daughters, and her FB will be living in it, and you will be out somewhere else paying at least half on it. If you can buy it on your own, deeded in your name only, OK, but you can't trust your W I am sorry to say if she is this unstable.


----------



## irrelevant

Update. After (once again) promising to cut all contact, she communicated with him again. I found out so she confessed but claims that she only notified him that she can't communicate any more due to her problems with her husband. I told her that means "I want to but can't because husband doesn't let me". She said she wanted to tell me about that conversation of theirs but in the end didn't. Anyway, finding out that she still communicates with him under the veil of secrecy and opposit to what she repeatedly promised, I gave up on trusting her and went on to take actions.

I contacted OM on his phone, he sort of acted as he didn't know what I was talking about but accepted to meet me today for conversation. I did state that in case he doesn't want to meet and talk, I will notify his wife on what has been happening. Don't know if he will follow through. My impression is that he is not at all interested in any relationship with my wife. Her interest obviously flattered him but I didn't recognize any emotion from his side towards her.

I told my wife that I contacted him. She calmly pleaded me to stop that and not tell his wife, that perhaps things are not the way I see them and so on. Later in the evening she snapped at me, telling that nobody will control her, that she won't be my property, that this is only the beginning and that she will do a lot worse things than this. She told me that we can live together but won't even be friends with me, doesn't want to talk to me about anything personal or intimate and that she will do as she pleases. Later she told me that the truth is that I am not the right kind of person for her to be married to and that she doesn't want to be married to me. I said that this is my stand on this marriage and I don't won't to lose it but will take this stand at any cost.

I went on with household chores and kids. She calmed down a bit and started to look sad (I believe she was grieving the loss of her fantasy tale - which I destroyed by contacting OM). We went to bed and she again pleaded me not to talk to his wife and that nothing was ever going to happen in this affair anyway. She didn't reject me and we did have sex but she was tense as she was the night before (on the day she spoke with him allegedly about breaking up).

During the night (we both slept bad) she tried to touch me more than usual (almost like in the beginning of our relationship). In the morning I told her that infidelity will mean divorce and first-degree infidelity will mean warp-divorce. She said nothing will happen and she will behave properly. On the way to work I asked her is she willing to work on this marriage and she said that she sees no reason to divorce. I told her that she told me I was not right for her, and she confirmed that again and went out of car as we just reached her work. A bit later I called her to tell her she is free to do as she wants and has no obligation towards me and the formalities will be solved accordingly. She got really angry telling me to stop calling her to her work and the conversation ended.

Is there any way out of this without breaking up my family? Any advice from anyone?


----------



## Malaise

Stop prolonging your misery and file.

And, what good will talking to OM do? He knows she's married and doesn't give a damn. Are you going to threaten him? Reason with him? Beg him?

Retain your self respect and just file already.


----------



## eric1

You need to call his wife NOW

Exposure is your greatest tool and you just gave him instructions that it is coming. They're clearly not going to stop communicating so you are forced to do it NOW for it to remain effective

There are only two reasons she would be mad at you for exposure - 
1. She cares about him more
2. She knows that it will be the end of the affair

For you, those certainly should not stop you. Stop being passive - you need to take control!!

And DO NOT TELL HER YOU ARE DOING THIS. She will just warn him again


----------



## Marc878

Exposure is what's needed. Inform his wife without warning. 

Why are you helping hide their affair?

Quit being weak and take control.

Affairs thrive in secret only. If you expose to his wife the affair normally ends.

Right now all you're doing is talking. Talk will get you nowhere. Your actions are what's needed.

Your effort on OM is not going to get you anything.

You'd better wake up


----------



## turnera

irrelevant said:


> Is there any way out of this without breaking up my family? Any advice from anyone?


Good job finally showing some strength. And look how quickly she tried to suck up to you once you did.

There was a poster who got an apartment for his wife and moved her there. She stayed there for a year. He moved on and acted like she was dead. After a year, he came and asked what he should do. She had been a model remorseful person that year - worked, lived there, saw her kids, and thought a lot about what she was losing. By the time they met up again, she had figured it out. May not work for you, but the point is that the time apart made them both grow up a little, lose the emotion, and look at things more logically.

But as what to do, see if he shows up. But no matter what he does, call his wife.


----------



## badmemory

irrelevant said:


> Later in the evening she snapped at me, telling that nobody will control her, that she won't be my property, that this is only the beginning and that *she will do a lot worse things than this.* She told me that we can live together but won't even be friends with me, doesn't want to talk to me about anything personal or intimate and that she will do as she pleases. Later she told me that the truth is that I am not the right kind of person for her to be married to and that *she doesn't want to be married to me.
> *
> On the way to work *I asked her is she willing to work on this marriage* and she said that she sees no reason to divorce.
> 
> Is there any way out of this without breaking up my family? Any advice from anyone?


I guess you didn't believe her when she said she'll do whatever the hell she wants and doesn't want to be married to you. Good grief, after everything else she's done that's all I would need to hear. Your wife does not have one iota of respect for you.

You have two choices. You can continue to be cheated on and be her doormat, or you can divorce her.


----------



## Edmund

irrelevant said:


> Update. After (once again) promising to cut all contact, she communicated with him again. I found out so she confessed but claims that she only notified him that she can't communicate any more due to her problems with her husband. I told her that means "I want to but can't because husband doesn't let me". She said she wanted to tell me about that conversation of theirs but in the end didn't. Anyway, finding out that she still communicates with him under the veil of secrecy and opposit to what she repeatedly promised, I gave up on trusting her and went on to take actions.
> 
> I contacted OM on his phone, he sort of acted as he didn't know what I was talking about but accepted to meet me today for conversation. I did state that in case he doesn't want to meet and talk, I will notify his wife on what has been happening. Don't know if he will follow through. My impression is that he is not at all interested in any relationship with my wife. Her interest obviously flattered him but I didn't recognize any emotion from his side towards her.
> 
> I told my wife that I contacted him. She calmly pleaded me to stop that and not tell his wife, that perhaps things are not the way I see them and so on. Later in the evening she snapped at me, telling that nobody will control her, that she won't be my property, that this is only the beginning and that she will do a lot worse things than this. She told me that we can live together but won't even be friends with me, doesn't want to talk to me about anything personal or intimate and that she will do as she pleases. Later she told me that the truth is that I am not the right kind of person for her to be married to and that she doesn't want to be married to me. I said that this is my stand on this marriage and I don't won't to lose it but will take this stand at any cost.
> 
> I went on with household chores and kids. She calmed down a bit and started to look sad (I believe she was grieving the loss of her fantasy tale - which I destroyed by contacting OM). We went to bed and she again pleaded me not to talk to his wife and that nothing was ever going to happen in this affair anyway. She didn't reject me and we did have sex but she was tense as she was the night before (on the day she spoke with him allegedly about breaking up).
> 
> During the night (we both slept bad) she tried to touch me more than usual (almost like in the beginning of our relationship). In the morning I told her that infidelity will mean divorce and first-degree infidelity will mean warp-divorce. She said nothing will happen and she will behave properly. On the way to work I asked her is she willing to work on this marriage and she said that she sees no reason to divorce. I told her that she told me I was not right for her, and she confirmed that again and went out of car as we just reached her work. A bit later I called her to tell her she is free to do as she wants and has no obligation towards me and the formalities will be solved accordingly. She got really angry telling me to stop calling her to her work and the conversation ended.
> 
> Is there any way out of this without breaking up my family? Any advice from anyone?



You have a long and complicated history with your wife. She has already broken up your family. You could agree to have an open marriage, but that rarely works long term (she will find someone she likes better and leave you) and only works if she still has genuine love feelings for you in addition to wanting the strange causal lovers. The only other way out is to divorce her. After that, you could continue to live together as roommates if you wanted. Your 3 year old is to young to understand. It could be hard on your 8 year old. When they are grown up, you could say goodbye. Sorry, it is very sad situation.


----------



## irrelevant

Spoke to the guy once again on the phone. Seems that he is afraid to meet. He admitted hanging out with her but denied any physical contact or any intentions from his side and claims everything was deep within friendzone. I don't believe him but I don't even care anymore. He apologized a few times if he caused me any problems. I expected to be talking to a much stronger man and he really disappointed me in a way. I don't intend to contact him any more. I see no point in upseting a pregnant woman over this and I no longer feel threatened by this p*ssy of a man.

Which leaves me even more p*ssed at my wife. A lawyer friend of mine connected me to a shark divorce lawyer (a woman which I hope means she won't be buying any manipulation stories from my wife) so I will go on and make preparations so that in case of execution things go my way from the start (I want only custody - with my freedom I know I am more than capable of providing - both materially and emotionally - for these kids).

Wife is still in some grieving her imaginary affair/complaining about me controlling her/saying she will stay with me because she doesn't want anyone else/loves me/whatever phase. It just makes me less and less wanting to be with her. I see now that she is immature and not the marriage type of woman.

I will give this/her some more time to see if we can work things through, and if not, just nuke.


----------



## Malaise

irrelevant said:


> Spoke to the guy once again on the phone. Seems that he is afraid to meet. He admitted hanging out with her but denied any physical contact or any intentions from his side and claims everything was deep within friendzone. I don't believe him but I don't even care anymore. He apologized a few times if he caused me any problems. I expected to be talking to a much stronger man and he really disappointed me in a way. I don't intend to contact him any more. I see no point in upseting a pregnant woman over this and I no longer feel threatened by this p*ssy of a man.


Mission accomplished.

Not yours, theirs.


----------



## MattMatt

via Imgflip Meme Generator


----------



## manwithnoname

irrelevant said:


> Spoke to the guy once again on the phone. Seems that he is afraid to meet. He admitted hanging out with her but denied any physical contact or any intentions from his side and claims everything was deep within friendzone. I don't believe him but I don't even care anymore. He apologized a few times if he caused me any problems. I expected to be talking to a much stronger man and he really disappointed me in a way. I don't intend to contact him any more. I see no point in upseting a pregnant woman over this and I no longer feel threatened by this p*ssy of a man.
> 
> Which leaves me even more p*ssed at my wife. A lawyer friend of mine connected me to a shark divorce lawyer (a woman which I hope means she won't be buying any manipulation stories from my wife) so I will go on and make preparations so that in case of execution things go my way from the start (I want only custody - with my freedom I know I am more than capable of providing - both materially and emotionally - for these kids).
> 
> *Wife is still in some grieving her imaginary affair/complaining about me controlling her/saying she will stay with me because she doesn't want anyone else/loves me/whatever phase. It just makes me less and less wanting to be with her. I see now that she is immature and not the marriage type of woman.*
> 
> I will give this/her some more time to see if we can work things through, and if not, just nuke.


There is a correlation between this and how a woman feels about a weak man.


----------



## Marc878

irrelevant said:


> Spoke to the guy once again on the phone. Seems that he is afraid to meet. He admitted hanging out with her but denied any physical contact or any intentions from his side and claims everything was deep within friendzone. I don't believe him but I don't even care anymore. He apologized a few times if he caused me any problems. I expected to be talking to a much stronger man and he really disappointed me in a way. I don't intend to contact him any more. I see no point in upseting a pregnant woman over this and I no longer feel threatened by this p*ssy of a man.
> 
> All cheaters lie, hide and deny. You accomplished nothing. All you did was prove you're just going to talk but take no action. An appropriate action would have been to expose to his wife. You're still helping hide their affair. I'd bet other man is happy he handled you so well.
> 
> Which leaves me even more p*ssed at my wife. A lawyer friend of mine connected me to a shark divorce lawyer (a woman which I hope means she won't be buying any manipulation stories from my wife) so I will go on and make preparations so that in case of execution things go my way from the start (I want only custody - with my freedom I know I am more than capable of providing - both materially and emotionally - for these kids).
> 
> Wife is still in some grieving her *imaginary affair*/complaining about me controlling her/saying she will stay with me because she doesn't want anyone else/loves me/whatever phase. It just makes me less and less wanting to be with her. I see now that she is immature and not the marriage type of woman.
> 
> Still in denial wanting to believe.
> 
> Sounds like regret at being caught nothing more.
> 
> I will give this/her some more time to see if we can work things through, and if not, just nuke.


You've pumped yourself up a bit thinking you put other man in his place but I doubt any things changed. You just proved you aren't willing to actually do anything other than talk.


----------



## eric1

You have no option but to expose to a pregnant girlfriend. First off it is not ethical holding onto this information. The poor woman is starting a family with a monster and she should have all of the information at her fingertops on how to handle. Second, your wife is still lying to you and it is the ONLY tool at your disposal right now (absent dissolving the marriage) which will get you out of infidelity NOW.

You can either choose to stay in infidelity, or pull yourself out of it


----------



## skerzoid

You have been given wonderful guidance on this site. You have chosen to ignore it at your own risk. Filing for divorce is a first step. It may shock her into action. What kind of action? Who knows. She is illogical. But you will know for sure where you stand. This is not some sort of special situation. It is a woman who wants to have an affair and a husband that is unwilling to take action from fear of loss that has already happened. You called the other man a p_ssy. What are you doing for you and your family that is not just as unmanly? Woman are drawn to strength. Be strong. Women are drawn to decisive action. Be decisive. Women are drawn to courage. Be courageous. Or wish her well and go on to a life out of infidelity.


----------



## Taxman

Do not give her a second. Hit her with divorce papers now and send her packing. Whether or not she had an affair, her behavior speaks volumes. You are her plan B, she is in a fugue state and one is not sure whether she is sociopathic or bipolar, in any event, she does not qualify as a wife or mother. Remove her from your premises. Secure your children. Ensure that she cannot harm you in any way. 

This is not a marriage. This is a master slave relationship and you sir, are the slave to a frankly bizarre individual. Stop being a slave.


----------



## Chaparral

There used to be a comedy skit,politically incorrect now of course, about being a girly man or a manly man. Very funny but all too true. No matter what she does, you sweep it under the rug and let her gaslight you into thinking your the bad guy needing psychiatric help.


The only thing you have going for you is her high sex drive. At least that bonds the two of you a bit. The thing is you are trying to nice ( the pick me dance) her into being faithful. It doesn't work that way. You wife has gone out on dates with other men. Most men would divorce a woman or break up with a girlfriend that was even considering doing what your wife considers normal. By letting her get away with it initially, you gave her permission to keep escalating her betrayals. 

In the eight or more years I have been here, your behavior and response have not worked to keep the marriage one time. Read as many threads as you can. The scripts vary very little. You will quickly see how the ones that work do work. 

Download the MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER at amazon.com. You literally have no idea why she is treating you like this. The good news is if you don't wake up soon, you will be rid of the town bicycle before long.


----------



## manwithnoname

Chaparral said:


> There used to be a comedy skit,politically incorrect now of course, about being a girly man or a manly man. Very funny but all too true. No matter what she does, you sweep it under the rug and let her gaslight you into thinking your the bad guy needing psychiatric help.
> 
> 
> The only thing you have going for you is her high sex drive. At least that bonds the two of you a bit. The thing is you are trying to nice ( the pick me dance) her into being faithful. It doesn't work that way. You wife has gone out on dates with other men. Most men would divorce a woman or break up with a girlfriend that was even considering doing what your wife considers normal. By letting her get away with it initially, you gave her permission to keep escalating her betrayals.
> 
> In the eight or more years I have been here, your behavior and response have not worked to keep the marriage one time. Read as many threads as you can. The scripts vary very little. You will quickly see how the ones that work do work.
> 
> *Download the MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER* at amazon.com. You literally have no idea why she is treating you like this. The good news is if you don't wake up soon, you will be rid of the town bicycle before long.


Absolutely what the OP needs to do, ASAP.


----------



## TDSC60

I am amazed. Your wife offers herself for sex with other men. Admits that she fantasizes and WANTS sex with other men and you just keep hoping it is a phase that she will eventually wake up from. She has told you multiple times that the marriage means nothing to her and that you are not her ideal partner - believe her. Move on. It will only get worse. I believe she has already had sex with other men.


----------



## rzmpf

irrelevant said:


> On the way to work I asked her is she willing to work on this marriage and she said that she sees no reason to divorce. I told her that she told me I was not right for her, and she confirmed that again


She didn't answer your question and by that she did answer it....NO, she does not want to work on your marriage. And the next sentence confirms that, you are not right for her (that's why she looked for OM). So you have her words and her actions. What else do you need to act?


----------



## irrelevant

OP update

It is a weird feeling of gratefulness but I thank you all for the inputs which have kept me awake and prevented me staying in denial. I continued to gather evidence and to press her.

Wife confessed to PA. Claims it was two meetings. First one they used protection (both left early from work to hotel) and second they didn't use protection (night out). She is not pregnant (period occured). She claims him to be ideal for her affair due to her not seeing him as a partner for anything more than that. Allegedly, after I contacted him the first time before her confession to PA, he withdrew due to fear of being outed to his wife. So the affair is off at the moment (perhaps not, makes no difference). My W is angry at me for stepping in and ending her adventure and angry at him for putting her second. She admits she wants the affair to continue so that's why it makes no difference to me whether it really is ongoing.

After that confession of hers, in a phone conversation I confronted OM again with findings and he went on to apologize and told he will feel remorse for the rest of his life and that all that should have never happened. My W then gave me a lot of other compromising info on him and his marriage, obviously wanting him to be punished for rejecting her. I went to his wife and gave her that info, some of which was pretty intimate regarding his feelings towards his family. That night he called me asking was it true that I was at his house, I confirmed. He obviously thought his wife was bluffing. I suppose that later on she passed on the details that showed it was no bluff. I texted him to come out and have a drink with me, but he hasn't answered since. No contact from either of them since (it has been a week now).

My wife told me that she tried to call him at work yesterday but he didn't answer. She acts differently throughout the days, from showing remorse, to anger, to grief of losing her affair. She claims to want to stay married to me, and continues to express affection, except in her anger/depression seizures. In these bad states of mind she says she doesn't want to be married to anyone, she doesn't want family committments, she will let me have the kids in case of divorce. And each and every day she is asking me not to leave her. 

I analyzed the situation and concluded that all this was a logical course of events, due to her taking it step by step year by year guy by guy (flirts at work, coffees at work, drinks at work, falling in love at work and now this). If she had more "freedom" (which she had but had no courage), all this would just have happened earlier.

So now we are at a crossroad. We do usual family stuff together, we have good sex (mostly she initiates very explicitly), she admits to have other feelings too, it is sort of a cuckold thing I guess without all that fetish scenario stuff. She doesn't want to promise her fidelity to me. She says that after having that affair she feels better about herself. She wants to stay married but she doesn't want to give up on her freedom. 

We finalised the apartment purchase and I consider that to be the family home for the kids. As for the financial aspect, if I went abroad again (which she pleads me not to do), I could pay off the whole 15 year loan within 2 years, perhaps even 1 year. For now I choose to stay home and pay it off together with my wife.

I myself have taken some actions. I started taking some medication to balance myself. I went to a lawyer and started buliding a divorce case, even though at this moment I still haven't decided to file. Just to have it ready to push the right buttons from the start. For the moment I enjoy being around the kids and I don't want to leave my family home. My feelings are starting to change and I want to give it time to help myself make the best decision and actions for myself and my kids.

I know most of you here will condemn my moves and I agree that there is a high probability that my wife will continue to act worse and file for divorce herself some day maybe even soon. Or it will be me not being able to stand it any more.

I did think that we had something special, and I did read here that most people think that and I did realize that I probably am wrong. But each and every story is special in it's own way, and I can't resist the curiosity of what will be happening. 

May sound absurd, but we still have some intrinsic thing going on between us.


----------



## Satya

irrelevant said:


> OP update.


So, correct me if I'm wrong, but she gets to keep the marriage, gets a new home, maintains her "freedom" which I can only assume means she can flirt with /date others without fear of losing anything and without your knowledge (??), and can keep calling the OM at any time to see if he ever nibbles again.

Good on you for exposing the affair to OMW, but your own wife seems to have no remorse, unless you left those specific actions out of your post.

What did you get out of this?


----------



## Malaise

@Satya : What did you get out of this? 





irrelevant said:


> But each and every story is special in it's own way, and I can't resist the curiosity of what will be happening.



The cuckold lifestyle. You're caught up in it.


----------



## Dyokemm

Wait a minute?

She has openly said she feels better about herself after the PA.....AND admits she basically wants to turn you into a cuckold.....

And you aren't sure if you want to file for D?

Are you willing to let her keep having affairs?

She has just openly told you she intends to keep having them in no uncertain terms.

Unless your 'intrinsic' connection with her involves sharing her sexually with other men, you better get the [email protected] out of there ASAP.

File for D and get away from this crazy woman.


----------



## turnera

irrelevant said:


> she will let me have the kids in case of divorce. And each and every day she is asking me not to leave her.


Great. Then you have leverage. Take her to a lawyer, have him write up a brief statement saying that if you divorce, you get the kids, and have her sign it in front of him. 

That way, you can carry on, continue to stay with her since you don't have the wherewithal to leave, and when you catch her cheating again, SHE leaves. Alone.

Get it signed NOW, while she still wants something from you.


----------



## PreRaph

Satya said:


> So, correct me if I'm wrong, but she gets to keep the marriage, gets a new home, maintains her "freedom" which I can only assume means she can flirt with /date others without fear of losing anything and without your knowledge (??), and can keep calling the OM at any time to see if he ever nibbles again.
> 
> Good on you for exposing the affair to OMW, but your own wife seems to have no remorse, unless you left those specific actions out of your post.
> 
> What did you get out of this?


I don't get it either. She's mourning the loss of the affair, she's angry at you and the other man for making it end, and now she's making up to you.

Guess what you are OP? I mean let's put it in big, big letters: 



*PLAN B*


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Do you want an open relationship? Are you pursuing sexual liaisons with other? If not, why not? Her A doesn't seem to bother you very much


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## VladDracul

Irreverent, she's plainly stated her position about seeing other men and you know what you want my man. Just go with what you think is right. I kinda garnered your mild "cuckold" interest from your post. There are a number of men who are not really appalled by their wife's other interest and even encourage it. I've been know to help out when I could be of service. My only caveat is that when women want open relationships, they are cruising for your replacement, so don't be surprised if she gives you your walking papers. In the meantime, ain't no need for you to turn away from any girls where there's a mutual interest.


----------



## Lostinthought61

I hope one day you grow some balls and and man until then if you want plan b, a doormat, a cockold husband ....good luck. i know there will be a lot of men out there that will take your place with your wife. i don't understand how you can look yourself in the mirror let it happen.


----------



## Jasel

We should make this thread a sticky as an example of everything you shouldn't do when dealing with a wife's infidelity. Reading this was painful.


----------



## irrelevant

In the end hell breaks loose.

She went to talk to OM at work today, to get "closure" (more probably to get "status"). She informed me about it when we got home and that he is not interested in pursuing the affair therefore no reason for me to worry.

It also slipped her lips that the guy said that, on the evening of the day I spoke to his wife, he thought about getting a gun and coming after me. I asked her what was her reaction to that and she said that she didn't think he really meant it because he was so upset at being outed that day and their conversation was ending anyway around that moment.

I was left numb which she didn't notice and went on with house routine, and moments later I saw her smirking at me. I asked her why is she doing that and she said she is thinking about being f***ed by someone in a rough way. I asked did she have anyone in mind and she said him, of course.

Not even I need an explanation on that.

How on earth, given the laws favouring mothers, can I save my two daughters and run away with them?


----------



## turnera

Lawyer.


----------



## Satya

I'm not surprised. 
She's had no real consequences, so this is what you get.


----------



## VladDracul

irrelevant said:


> I asked her why is she doing that and she said she is thinking about being f***ed by someone in a rough way. I asked did she have anyone in mind and she said him, of course.


You need to provided more details about what she said for us to evaluate its significance.


----------



## manfromlamancha

What country are you in ? I am trying to understand where in Europe do conversations like this happen !?!?!?!?


----------



## sokillme

irrelevant said:


> In the end hell breaks loose.
> 
> She went to talk to OM at work today, to get "closure" (more probably to get "status"). She informed me about it when we got home and that he is not interested in pursuing the affair therefore no reason for me to worry.
> 
> It also slipped her lips that the guy said that, on the evening of the day I spoke to his wife, he thought about getting a gun and coming after me. I asked her what was her reaction to that and she said that she didn't think he really meant it because he was so upset at being outed that day and their conversation was ending anyway around that moment.
> 
> I was left numb which she didn't notice and went on with house routine, and moments later I saw her smirking at me. I asked her why is she doing that and she said she is thinking about being f***ed by someone in a rough way. I asked did she have anyone in mind and she said him, of course.
> 
> Not even I need an explanation on that.
> 
> How on earth, given the laws favouring mothers, can I save my two daughters and run away with them?


And yet you hold on to her like she is a prize. As long as you let them bullies will bully you.


----------



## Taxman

I like how my ex-boss' wife handled him acting like he was entitled to his affairs. On a business trip to Switzerland, she gathered his passport, credit cards, loose cash, etc. and left. Hopped a plane back home, and left him penniless and unable to go anywhere. Took him several weeks, and friends sending him money (too bad for him, when he returned, the federal police were waiting for him at the airport-I guess when I let them into the office, and showed them where his confidential files were in the office safe, they must have gotten upset...WHO KNEW???)


----------



## Marc878

Op if your wife walks up and hits you in the mouth with her fist but then says "I'm sorry" then the next day if she does it again this time knocking a couple teeth out and says "Sorry" again. At what point do you learn to duck?


----------



## VladDracul

The more I read Irreverent's responses, the more I think of Queen Gertrud's response to the player Queen in Act III, Scene II of Hamlet. :wink2:


----------



## manwithnoname

irrelevant said:


> In the end hell breaks loose.
> 
> She went to talk to OM at work today, to get "closure" (more probably to get "status"). She informed me about it when we got home and that he is not interested in pursuing the affair therefore no reason for me to worry.
> 
> It also slipped her lips that the guy said that, on the evening of the day I spoke to his wife, he thought about getting a gun and coming after me. I asked her what was her reaction to that and she said that she didn't think he really meant it because he was so upset at being outed that day and their conversation was ending anyway around that moment.
> 
> *I was left numb which she didn't notice and went on with house routine, and moments later I saw her smirking at me. I asked her why is she doing that and she said she is thinking about being f***ed by someone in a rough way. I asked did she have anyone in mind and she said him, of course.*
> 
> Not even I need an explanation on that.
> 
> How on earth, given the laws favouring mothers, can I save my two daughters and run away with them?



This made me sick to my stomach. Partly because of her actions, and partly because of your lack of action. 

You need to rid yourself of this POS of a "wife"


----------



## Hope1964

This all CAN'T be true. Tell me it isn't true please. I refuse to believe doormats like this guy and TOTAL *****ES like his wife really exist.


----------



## VladDracul

Believe me Hope. *I*rreverent *t*hinks* s*he *B*ecame *u*nder *l*oves *l*ustful *S*pell *h*oping *i*ts *t*emporary


----------



## BobSimmons

Shout out to all the peeps that bought this and got triggered by every post.

Sending strength brothers *fist bump*

lol


----------



## irrelevant

I can no longer make it through a day without medication. But it makes it difficult for me to concentrate for work or driving. I avoid family and friends and my self-esteem is gone. Counseling doesn't help at all. Only thing that keeps me above is being around my kids.

OMW called me. OM sold her the story that there was no sex and my W was just stalking him and they had a few drinks in a public setting. OMW seems to buy it. She obviously prefers to move on acting as nothing happened. I called OM about his threats and offered to meet anywhere anytime so he can say it to my face. He declined and insisted that he made no threats. I am disgusted by the weakness of this "man". I decided to ignore their existence.

W started expressing some "remorse". I don't believe it to be sincere. I see she is still thinking a lot about the situation. Her infatuation with OM has clearly faded since he really gave her up in a most repulsive way. He disposed her like a used handkerchief. She is trying to get back to our life, but she is still processing her feelings and is in fact distant from marriage and family. I do almost all the work around the kids. I don't mind that actually because hugs of those small arms mean the difference between life and death for me at the moment. 

Before PA happened, she told me to give her space and time and to trust her she will handle it on her own. And she did. I know now that, even if I could have stopped it, it would make no difference now. The betrayal took place way before actual PA. Even though I believe her there were none prior to this one, I take it as a fact that there possibly could have been.

W keeps stating that I will probably leave her eventually. Sometimes she asks me not to leave her. I don't see her as a person anymore, more like a memory, or a fantasy. I started to feel not loving her anymore but it is complicated. I even told her about my feelings. She claims to be shocked but I don't see it meaning much to her. Just the thought of her being left is bothering her. She has become slow and disconnected. House chores of 10 mins last for at least an hour. I see she is not well but she seems not wanting to change the way she feels.

I thought about ways of picking myself up, about all that 180 stuff or any sort of taking my own path, but I feel like I need the chance for one big fight. One chance to say how I feel. Because she never asks. Nobody asks. I feel shut down by the world. I have noone to talk to.

Her reponses always come down to: "It would have been better if you never found out about this." She thinks she would have taken this lesson to the grave and I would be left unhurt. I am more prone to believe that I would eventually find out, and if not, it would happen again as I see she learned no lessons. I do agree that for her it would be better if she hid this.

I am now fighting to keep my job which I endangered by abruptly leaving the project I was on when problems at home occured. The outcome is still unknown. Most probably I will be offered a position in home office. But I started making enquiries to go abroad again for another company and the feedback is promising. In that case I would see no point it continuing my marriage. Which makes me wonder what is the point even now so?

I am trying to understand why am I so horrified of breaking up this family. Some people perhaps can walk away easily, but I don't have that strenght and determination. I feel completely lost and alone.


----------



## Satya

There are MANY things in this world that are not easy, not by a long shot, but they are necessary. 

If you stay with her, and care about your children as much as you do, then they'll learn over time, from watching you two, that marriage is two people who barely love each other, rarely tolerate each other, are depressed around each other, and only depend on each other for survival. I'm not trying to sound cruel, but I think that's about the worst you could do to children who bring you hope and happiness. Don't they deserve to learn that parents can be separated and much happier individually? That their parents can find love again (thus learning that even adults get things wrong the first time and can recover)? That they will always be loved, no matter what happens? 

When children see parents constantly depressed, sad, near suicidal around them, they can believe they are the cause, because children's worlds are very self - focused. 

There is a lot to live for, get stronger for, and move on for. But you won't believe it from your current position with her, because all you see while remaining with her is deception and depression. That's because your trust is gone and likely she does not have the stuff necessary to help rebuild it. So why linger? 

That's all my opinion.


----------



## turnera

Since you have kids, I'm going to suggest you don't make any hasty decisions. You two COULD be doing some serious work in therapy - if you demanded it to stay together. If nothing else, it would be good for the kids for you two to do therapy. 

Pick one person to talk to. The reason you're floundering is you are trying to hide this thing. Talk to someone. If you have people in your life who love you, they would want to be able to be there for you. And they won't judge. Pick someone.


----------



## irrelevant

I did talk to one person. A good male friend of mine who is 53 years old married with 3 grown kids and two of us went through some serious danger together and I trust him to the grave. He told me not to hurry anything but to stick it out for the kids because they are the only thing that matters. But even he is appalled by my W's actions. We talk almost every day (he is currently in another country).

Anyway, talk did help a bit, but actually not all that much. I am losing my mind day by day and increasing medication.


----------



## turnera

irrelevant said:


> I did talk to one person. A good male friend of mine who is 53 years old married with 3 grown kids and two of us went through some serious danger together and I trust him to the grave. He told me not to hurry anything but to stick it out for the kids because they are the only thing that matters. But even he is appalled by my W's actions. We talk almost every day (he is currently in another country).
> 
> Anyway, talk did help a bit, but actually not all that much. I am losing my mind day by day and increasing medication.


Then you need to be seeing your therapist at least once or twice a week.


----------



## Dyokemm

"It would have been better if you never found out"

A mantra I'm sure EVERY cheater swears by....lol


----------



## Marc878

irrelevant said:


> I did talk to one person. A good male friend of mine who is 53 years old married with 3 grown kids and two of us went through some serious danger together and I trust him to the grave. *He told me not to hurry anything but to stick it out for the kids because they are the only thing that matters.* But even he is appalled by my W's actions. We talk almost every day (he is currently in another country).
> 
> Anyway, talk did help a bit, but actually not all that much. I am losing my mind day by day and increasing medication.


So destroy your life and live in misery fir your kids wholl eventually grow up and on with their lives and then what?

Horrible advice. Your life matters too.


----------



## Marc878

irrelevant said:


> I did talk to one person. A good male friend of mine who is 53 years old married with 3 grown kids and two of us went through some serious danger together and I trust him to the grave. []He told me not to hurry anything but to stick it out for the kids because they are the only thing that matters.[/B] But even he is appalled by my W's actions. We talk almost every day (he is currently in another country).
> 
> Anyway, talk did help a bit, but actually not all that much. I am losing my mind day by day and increasing medication.


So destroy your life and live in misery for your kids who'll eventually grow up and move on with their lives and then what?

Horrible advice. Your life matters too.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Marc878 said:


> So destroy your life and live in misery for your kids who'll eventually grow up and move on with their lives and then what?
> 
> Horrible advice. Your life matters too.


 not only grow up and move on but do that while thinking being cheated on and doing nothing about it is OK. Not a good lesson for the kids.


----------



## sokillme

irrelevant said:


> I can no longer make it through a day without medication. But it makes it difficult for me to concentrate for work or driving. I avoid family and friends and my self-esteem is gone. Counseling doesn't help at all. Only thing that keeps me above is being around my kids.
> 
> OMW called me. OM sold her the story that there was no sex and my W was just stalking him and they had a few drinks in a public setting. OMW seems to buy it. She obviously prefers to move on acting as nothing happened. I called OM about his threats and offered to meet anywhere anytime so he can say it to my face. He declined and insisted that he made no threats. I am disgusted by the weakness of this "man". I decided to ignore their existence.
> 
> W started expressing some "remorse". I don't believe it to be sincere. I see she is still thinking a lot about the situation. Her infatuation with OM has clearly faded since he really gave her up in a most repulsive way. He disposed her like a used handkerchief. She is trying to get back to our life, but she is still processing her feelings and is in fact distant from marriage and family. I do almost all the work around the kids. I don't mind that actually because hugs of those small arms mean the difference between life and death for me at the moment.
> 
> Before PA happened, she told me to give her space and time and to trust her she will handle it on her own. And she did. I know now that, even if I could have stopped it, it would make no difference now. The betrayal took place way before actual PA. Even though I believe her there were none prior to this one, I take it as a fact that there possibly could have been.
> 
> W keeps stating that I will probably leave her eventually. Sometimes she asks me not to leave her. I don't see her as a person anymore, more like a memory, or a fantasy. I started to feel not loving her anymore but it is complicated. I even told her about my feelings. She claims to be shocked but I don't see it meaning much to her. Just the thought of her being left is bothering her. She has become slow and disconnected. House chores of 10 mins last for at least an hour. I see she is not well but she seems not wanting to change the way she feels.
> 
> I thought about ways of picking myself up, about all that 180 stuff or any sort of taking my own path, but I feel like I need the chance for one big fight. One chance to say how I feel. Because she never asks. Nobody asks. I feel shut down by the world. I have noone to talk to.
> 
> Her reponses always come down to: "It would have been better if you never found out about this." She thinks she would have taken this lesson to the grave and I would be left unhurt. I am more prone to believe that I would eventually find out, and if not, it would happen again as I see she learned no lessons. I do agree that for her it would be better if she hid this.
> 
> I am now fighting to keep my job which I endangered by abruptly leaving the project I was on when problems at home occured. The outcome is still unknown. Most probably I will be offered a position in home office. But I started making enquiries to go abroad again for another company and the feedback is promising. In that case I would see no point it continuing my marriage. Which makes me wonder what is the point even now so?
> 
> I am trying to understand why am I so horrified of breaking up this family. Some people perhaps can walk away easily, but I don't have that strenght and determination. I feel completely lost and alone.


Your life is not over man. You have complete control over it. The only way it stays this way is if you choose to stay with this toxic women in this toxic situation. It will start to get better once you choose to move forward without her. There is a whole world out there with some very good women, unfortunately you picked a bad one. Doesn't mean there is not better out there. But you got to MOVE FORWARD.


----------



## JohnA

Please, what country do you live in? What faith and traditions where you and your wife brought up in?

I know this is very personal. But to truely help you we need to know where you are coming from. The culture we grew up in and live shapes us in ways that are hard to realize. Yet those cultures provide stenghts to us as well. There is no re-inventing the wheel. Materials and sizes yes. 

Many in the US love the European health care model. Yes it does have it's strengths, but it has draw backs as well. The US health care system has some great strengths, but these strengths translate poorly into the European system. So ask from the background to understand your reality.


----------



## irrelevant

Crisis escalated. I can't stand waiting and swallowing all that pain. I stood up and put up a conflict. Here is how conversation went on (in main lines):

(I drove her to work and in front of the building there was a colleague of hers and I noted that might be her ex-lover. She laughed and said that wasn't him but another colleague and that they don't even resemble. I purposely escalated.)

she: That guy is so nice, he also walks away from flirting just like you.
me: Well I am not nice since I took your lover away from you and now you hate me for it.
she: I have no bad feelings for you, I just sometimes flip angry but more and more I see there is no reason for me to act that way.
me: And you say that your behaviour hasn't changed since this started? And you don't see how that affair drove our marriage to the verge? 
she: Do you really think it is that serious?
me: I have nothing to think, I am 100% in here and my vision is not blurred.
she: And mine still is?
me: Well you certainly still feel the affair.
she: Less and less.
me: When you return maybe you will see what is left here.
she: From your side or mine?
me: Both.
she: So you are getting cold about me?
me: I don't know but I do know I lost my faith.
she: Faith?
me: In us.
she: OK.
me: Sounds bad but should I lie?
she: OK. I deserved this and I will keep my mouth shut.
me: This is not about deserving. Just focus on your recovery. If it was true love, take your time to heal.
she: Don't make me laugh about that true love. But I still can't believe you said we can have extramarital sex.
me: I didn't, I said the wows have been broken so there are no obstacles for those who want to.
she: OK. Will you tell me if you cheat on me?
me: I don't have anyone to cheat on.
she: OK. File for divorce. I don't want to listen to this. And I want to stop having sex with you for a longer period of time due to these things you say. If I am nobody we have no reason to touch each other.
me: So it's not because you just don't want to have sex with me? Except from pity or manipulation? (Since her lover gave her the no contact her drive went away)
she: F*** off. You have nobody to cheat on?
me: How can I cheat when the wows have been broken?
she: F*** you and your wows (more swearing)
me: (calmly) So, you stay behind this about no sex and divorce?
she: How ever you wish. If I will be listening to this then yes. We will die apart, you in your perfect life and me in my misery.
me: So either I behave your way or I don't get p*ssy anymore and I can also disappear?
she: (a lot of swearing) You are disgusting. Move out. I won't tolerate anyone spitting and sh*tting on me.
me: Telling the truth is not spitting.
she: Think where you can move away because I don't want to look at you any more.
me: OK.
she: Don't come to vacation with us (next 2 weeks). Move out by July 15. We have nothing to talk about this way.
me: Well we only talked about you and your lover anyway.
she: I am all that I am interested in anyway. I will sign the papers when you bring them. Tell nothing to the kids.
me: Oh so you decide for the kids yourself?
she: Nobody was interested in me up until 2 months ago. You are only after horny p*ssy. I am afraid we will never talk nice again.
me: We only talk nice when I accept all your terms.
she: I don't care. 
me: I know you don't. You showed it by cheating on me.
she: F*** off you b*stard.

There it is. I know I handled this badly but emotions are just too strong.


----------



## irrelevant

Now she texted me from her work. In short:

"I am sorry for the marriage because affairs are worth of no marriage but still happen. It annoys me that you couldn't get over this even if I now acted as the most wonderful person possible. All of you prefer lies and manipulations, even you the saint. So it is not an insult that I am saying this should have been kept secret. What matters is that you are the one who chose to proclaim end of marriage. But it is actually about you not wanting/not being able to forgive. I thought it would be better not to say because I didn't want marriage to fall apart. But you wanted the truth even at the cost of falling apart."


----------



## eric1

Wow I've never seen gas lighting this bad.

Just remain confident - when she unilaterally decided to end the marriage by taking on a boyfriend you were simply forced to protect yourself.

And it seems like you have a lot to protect yourself from.


----------



## farsidejunky

In other words, get over it it I will treat you like crap.

Man...let this one go. Her self centeredness is beyond the pale.

As for you...stop insisting she see it your way. It is needy and weak. Make short statements about what you will accept one time, then stop talking and show her through action that you mean what you say.


----------



## manwithnoname

irrelevant said:


> Now she texted me from her work. In short:
> 
> "I am sorry for the marriage because affairs are worth of no marriage but still happen. It annoys me that you couldn't get over this even if I now acted as the most wonderful person possible. All of you prefer lies and manipulations, even you the saint. So it is not an insult that I am saying this should have been kept secret. What matters is that you are the one who chose to proclaim end of marriage. But it is actually about you not wanting/not being able to forgive. I thought it would be better not to say because I didn't want marriage to fall apart. But you wanted the truth even at the cost of falling apart."


WOW! What a ****ing twisted *****. You'll get good advice here on how to proceed to divorce, which is the best thing for you. Follow it. 

She's even admitted that she has "acted" as the most wonderful person possible. Once you move to the next step closer to divorce, she will change again to suck you back in. Beware.


----------



## irrelevant

I had to call her regarding some kindergarten application. So after we handled that, of course we got back to the subject.

She now wants me to take the vacation and go with them. Our stay is planned in her sister's empty apartment in a seaside city. The July 15 move out deadline was not mentioned again.

She says that she doesn't want to listen any more of my accusations. She has had enough of that during this affair, enough during her EA 5 yrs ago and also inbetween. She wants me to decide on what happens next. She wants to stay with me but can't handle the condemnation.

She also said that we should stop being intimate for a certain period of time. I told her that can be stopped unilaterally.

Aftrewards she texted me that she is sorry for doing all of this to us. But she can't accept that this can anull all the years together. She proposes for us to think and not talk, that she gave me all the facts and not to call her a liar anymore. That I take time to decide. She also says that maybe we should be intimate anyway.

I see that I am being manipulated but just can't seem to find an appropriate reaction.


----------



## Andy1001

irrelevant said:


> I had to call her regarding some kindergarten application. So after we handled that, of course we got back to the subject.
> 
> She now wants me to take the vacation and go with them. Our stay is planned in her sister's empty apartment in a seaside city. The July 15 move out deadline was not mentioned again.
> 
> She says that she doesn't want to listen any more of my accusations. She has had enough of that during this affair, enough during her EA 5 yrs ago and also inbetween. She wants me to decide on what happens next. She wants to stay with me but can't handle the condemnation.
> 
> She also said that we should stop being intimate for a certain period of time. I told her that can be stopped unilaterally.
> 
> Aftrewards she texted me that she is sorry for doing all of this to us. But she can't accept that this can anull all the years together. She proposes for us to think and not talk, that she gave me all the facts and not to call her a liar anymore. That I take time to decide. She also says that maybe we should be intimate anyway.
> 
> I see that I am being manipulated but just can't seem to find an appropriate reaction.


She is trying to negotiate with you,do not allow this.When she make a statement just remain silent.Then tell her what you are prepared to accept and walk away.She either complies or you divorce her.You have to take the power back off her,she is trying to bargain with you but you can't allow this.


----------



## irrelevant

She texted me again:

"Will you allow me to fall in love with you again? Because with how you have been since you came home from abroad, you are not letting me..."

I feel this to be a very manipulative way of blameshifting. It starts to creep me out.

Just for the record, I came home from abroad on a Wednesday, and two days later on Friday she had her first intercourse with OM (they left work earlier to go to a hotel). They met on May 4, met up at work a few times in the following days, then first PA happened on May 26. Second one on June 2.


----------



## irrelevant

I am haunted by images.

Of her falling for someone else so quickly and intensely. Of her texting like a teenager. Of her making arrangements to meet. Of her putting maximum effort for those arrangments to go through. Of her hiding all that stuff from me. Of her asking me to trust her to handle it on her own. Of two of them plotting lies together to keep me off track. Of her talking to him about most intimate things in her life. Of her listening about most intimate things in his life and actually caring about hearing it. Of their physical contact without any boundaries. Of their immature but evident emotional contact also without boundaries. Of her being distant at home thinking about where he is and what is he thinking.

Is it possible to get over it and actually forgive?

All that bulls**t of hers about falling in love again just makes me feel sick. What freaking falling in love is she talking about?


----------



## badmemory

irrelevant said:


> Is it possible to get over it and actually forgive?


Not with a manipulative and unremorseful wife.


----------



## Lostinthought61

If you accept her conditions you place her in charge of this marriage, you tell me can you live with that, can you allow her control you...if nothing else leave if only to demonstrate to yourself that you have self-respect for yourself, otherwise you have demonstrated to her that you are a Plan B, beta male....and you know that it will not be a case of if she does this again but when.


----------



## turnera

Don't do anything until you have seen a lawyer and know what your rights are if you get divorced. What kind of custody you can get. Don't have sex with her. Treat her like the mailman for now. Go on the trip for the kids, but stay in a separate bedroom.


----------



## Hope1964

Until you realize that all your interactions with her are destroying you and cut off all contact, you will continue to need to up the medication. Sooner or later you'll be a vegetable who only moves when she demands it.

Whoever that therapist is, you need to fire them. NOW. Staying together no matter what 'for the kids' is a great way to destroy your kids' lives.


----------



## manfromlamancha

irrelevant said:


> She texted me again:
> 
> "Will you allow me to fall in love with you again? Because with how you have been since you came home from abroad, you are not letting me..."
> 
> I feel this to be a very manipulative way of blameshifting. It starts to creep me out.
> 
> *Just for the record, I came home from abroad on a Wednesday, and two days later on Friday she had her first intercourse with OM (they left work earlier to go to a hotel). They met on May 4, met up at work a few times in the following days, then first PA happened on May 26. Second one on June 2.*


How did you find these details out ? I have been trying to keep track of your story and sometimes it is difficult. Has she come clean about fvcking this guy twice ? I would say its probably a lot more.

You spoke to the guy after June 2 and he denied it was physical. Does he accept that he lied now ? Does she accept that he lied to you ?

I really don't understand you or your feelings. I am going to say this really slowly - she is fvcking (yes fv ck ing) another man !!!!!!!!

Whats to know or reason ? Kick her out !!!! This should be game set and match for your marriage. Its over and she is an awful person. You should not want to be with her anyway. WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU ????


----------



## pbj2016

irrelevant said:


> Crisis escalated. I can't stand waiting and swallowing all that pain. I stood up and put up a conflict. Here is how conversation went on (in main lines):
> 
> 
> 
> (I drove her to work and in front of the building there was a colleague of hers and I noted that might be her ex-lover. She laughed and said that wasn't him but another colleague and that they don't even resemble. I purposely escalated.)
> 
> 
> 
> she: That guy is so nice, he also walks away from flirting just like you.
> 
> me: Well I am not nice since I took your lover away from you and now you hate me for it.
> 
> she: I have no bad feelings for you, I just sometimes flip angry but more and more I see there is no reason for me to act that way.
> 
> me: And you say that your behaviour hasn't changed since this started? And you don't see how that affair drove our marriage to the verge?
> 
> she: Do you really think it is that serious?
> 
> me: I have nothing to think, I am 100% in here and my vision is not blurred.
> 
> she: And mine still is?
> 
> me: Well you certainly still feel the affair.
> 
> she: Less and less.
> 
> me: When you return maybe you will see what is left here.
> 
> she: From your side or mine?
> 
> me: Both.
> 
> she: So you are getting cold about me?
> 
> me: I don't know but I do know I lost my faith.
> 
> she: Faith?
> 
> me: In us.
> 
> she: OK.
> 
> me: Sounds bad but should I lie?
> 
> she: OK. I deserved this and I will keep my mouth shut.
> 
> me: This is not about deserving. Just focus on your recovery. If it was true love, take your time to heal.
> 
> she: Don't make me laugh about that true love. But I still can't believe you said we can have extramarital sex.
> 
> me: I didn't, I said the wows have been broken so there are no obstacles for those who want to.
> 
> she: OK. Will you tell me if you cheat on me?
> 
> me: I don't have anyone to cheat on.
> 
> she: OK. File for divorce. I don't want to listen to this. And I want to stop having sex with you for a longer period of time due to these things you say. If I am nobody we have no reason to touch each other.
> 
> me: So it's not because you just don't want to have sex with me? Except from pity or manipulation? (Since her lover gave her the no contact her drive went away)
> 
> she: F*** off. You have nobody to cheat on?
> 
> me: How can I cheat when the wows have been broken?
> 
> she: F*** you and your wows (more swearing)
> 
> me: (calmly) So, you stay behind this about no sex and divorce?
> 
> she: How ever you wish. If I will be listening to this then yes. We will die apart, you in your perfect life and me in my misery.
> 
> me: So either I behave your way or I don't get p*ssy anymore and I can also disappear?
> 
> she: (a lot of swearing) You are disgusting. Move out. I won't tolerate anyone spitting and sh*tting on me.
> 
> me: Telling the truth is not spitting.
> 
> she: Think where you can move away because I don't want to look at you any more.
> 
> me: OK.
> 
> she: Don't come to vacation with us (next 2 weeks). Move out by July 15. We have nothing to talk about this way.
> 
> me: Well we only talked about you and your lover anyway.
> 
> she: I am all that I am interested in anyway. I will sign the papers when you bring them. Tell nothing to the kids.
> 
> me: Oh so you decide for the kids yourself?
> 
> she: Nobody was interested in me up until 2 months ago. You are only after horny p*ssy. I am afraid we will never talk nice again.
> 
> me: We only talk nice when I accept all your terms.
> 
> she: I don't care.
> 
> me: I know you don't. You showed it by cheating on me.
> 
> she: F*** off you b*stard.
> 
> 
> 
> There it is. I know I handled this badly but emotions are just too strong.




Interesting is that conversation was reasonable on her part until you admitted you had no one to cheat with. Perhaps your beta personality drives her crazy. You being beta and an introvert is no excuse for her behavior all during your marriage. But I think you need to work on you. 

You running away from your feelings for other women you were attracted to (or them attracted to you) during your marriage is noble and at the same time quite the persecution complex ("look at me...I took a bullet for my marriage because another woman was attracted to me"). 

Except you did something each time so that your wife will never know that her peers find you attractive. For some partners, this little bit of competition is important. It gives them fresh eyes for their relationship with you. You should not boast or compare your ability to attract another but rather disclose what is happening in your life. You wife might have appreciated knowing you would give up a job to protect your marriage. No matter but that opportunity is forever lost because it needs to happen naturally and not forced to the front during a crisis. 

You cannot save this marriage by yourself but you can save yourself should she continue her destructive behavior. Read "No Mr. Nice Guy" and see if you identify with the descriptions in this book. Stop trying to be the perfect man for everyone because it is driving a wedge between you and your wife. Save yourself and your kids. Work on yourself.


----------



## SunCMars

turnera said:


> Don't do anything until you have seen a lawyer and know what your rights are if you get divorced. What kind of custody you can get. Don't have sex with her. *Treat her like the mailman *for now. Go on the trip for the kids, but stay in a separate bedroom.


Bad advice.....

My mailman is a swell fellow....as are most. 

She is not swell, well, maybe her big immature head.

Treat her like the skunk in the barn.....

Hands off, nose pinched.

Just Sayin'


----------



## turnera

pbj2016 said:


> Interesting is that conversation was reasonable on her part until you admitted you had no one to cheat with.


He said no one to cheat ON. I took that to mean she is dead to him.


----------



## SunCMars

irrelevant said:


> Now she texted me from her work. In short:
> 
> "I am sorry for the marriage because affairs are worth of no marriage but still happen. It annoys me that you couldn't get over this even if I now acted as the most wonderful person possible. All of you prefer lies and manipulations, even you the saint. So it is not an insult that I am saying this should have been kept secret. What matters is that you are the one who chose to proclaim end of marriage. But it is actually about you not wanting/not being able to forgive. I thought it would be better not to say because I didn't want marriage to fall apart. But you wanted the truth even at the cost of falling apart."


This one wants an open marriage......would be happy to be in one.

Sex and intimacy are more important to her than anything else that life can offer [her].

Accept that and she will be happy. She will cling to you like Saran Wrap....wrapped tight, except for two cuts in it. One opening for her lips, one for her vagina. To air it out....of course!

It takes all kinds of apples to make a pie. Especially her fur pie.

What a world, what a life.

At this point, I would no longer hate her, I would just leave....she has flipped her Floppy Drive; has allowed un-formatted diks to slip inside her vertical slot. And the danged things are spinning backwards.

She is not for you, trade her in for another.


----------



## pbj2016

turnera said:


> He said no one to cheat ON. I took that to mean she is dead to him.




Ahh makes sense.


----------



## VladDracul

pbj2016 said:


> Ahh makes sense.


In a manner of speaking,


----------



## GusPolinski

irrelevant said:


> She texted me again:
> 
> "Will you allow me to fall in love with you again? Because with how you have been since you came home from abroad, you are not letting me..."
> 
> *I feel this to be a very manipulative way of blameshifting. It starts to creep me out.*
> 
> Just for the record, I came home from abroad on a Wednesday, and two days later on Friday she had her first intercourse with OM (they left work earlier to go to a hotel). They met on May 4, met up at work a few times in the following days, then first PA happened on May 26. Second one on June 2.


LOL.

Yep.

Dude, cut this chick loose.

Everything that you've written about her from the start screams one word...

Manipulation

Seriously, man. Cut the cord.

File tomorrow.


----------



## GusPolinski

irrelevant said:


> Crisis escalated. I can't stand waiting and swallowing all that pain. I stood up and put up a conflict. Here is how conversation went on (in main lines):
> 
> (I drove her to work and in front of the building there was a colleague of hers and I noted that might be her ex-lover. She laughed and said that wasn't him but another colleague and that they don't even resemble. I purposely escalated.)
> 
> she: That guy is so nice, he also walks away from flirting just like you.
> me: Well I am not nice since I took your lover away from you and now you hate me for it.
> she: I have no bad feelings for you, I just sometimes flip angry but more and more I see there is no reason for me to act that way.
> me: And you say that your behaviour hasn't changed since this started? And you don't see how that affair drove our marriage to the verge?
> she: Do you really think it is that serious?
> me: I have nothing to think, I am 100% in here and my vision is not blurred.
> she: And mine still is?
> me: Well you certainly still feel the affair.
> she: Less and less.
> me: When you return maybe you will see what is left here.
> she: From your side or mine?
> me: Both.
> she: So you are getting cold about me?
> me: I don't know but I do know I lost my faith.
> she: Faith?
> me: In us.
> she: OK.
> me: Sounds bad but should I lie?
> she: OK. I deserved this and I will keep my mouth shut.
> me: This is not about deserving. Just focus on your recovery. If it was true love, take your time to heal.
> she: Don't make me laugh about that true love. But I still can't believe you said we can have extramarital sex.
> me: I didn't, I said the wows have been broken so there are no obstacles for those who want to.
> she: OK. Will you tell me if you cheat on me?
> me: I don't have anyone to cheat on.
> she: OK. File for divorce. I don't want to listen to this. And I want to stop having sex with you for a longer period of time due to these things you say. If I am nobody we have no reason to touch each other.
> me: So it's not because you just don't want to have sex with me? Except from pity or manipulation? (Since her lover gave her the no contact her drive went away)
> she: F*** off. You have nobody to cheat on?
> me: How can I cheat when the wows have been broken?
> she: F*** you and your wows (more swearing)
> me: (calmly) So, you stay behind this about no sex and divorce?
> she: How ever you wish. If I will be listening to this then yes. We will die apart, you in your perfect life and me in my misery.
> me: So either I behave your way or I don't get p*ssy anymore and I can also disappear?
> she: (a lot of swearing) You are disgusting. Move out. I won't tolerate anyone spitting and sh*tting on me.
> me: Telling the truth is not spitting.
> she: Think where you can move away because I don't want to look at you any more.
> me: OK.
> she: Don't come to vacation with us (next 2 weeks). Move out by July 15. We have nothing to talk about this way.
> me: Well we only talked about you and your lover anyway.
> she: I am all that I am interested in anyway. I will sign the papers when you bring them. Tell nothing to the kids.
> me: Oh so you decide for the kids yourself?
> she: Nobody was interested in me up until 2 months ago. You are only after horny p*ssy. I am afraid we will never talk nice again.
> me: We only talk nice when I accept all your terms.
> she: I don't care.
> me: I know you don't. You showed it by cheating on me.
> she: F*** off you b*stard.
> 
> There it is. I know I handled this badly but emotions are just too strong.


Damn.

This chick might be a sociopath.


----------



## GusPolinski

eric1 said:


> *Wow I've never seen gas lighting this bad.*
> 
> Just remain confident - when she unilaterally decided to end the marriage by taking on a boyfriend you were simply forced to protect yourself.
> 
> And it seems like you have a lot to protect yourself from.


For reals.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

irrelevant said:


> Crisis escalated. I can't stand waiting and swallowing all that pain. I stood up and put up a conflict. Here is how conversation went on (in main lines):
> 
> (I drove her to work and in front of the building there was a colleague of hers and I noted that might be her ex-lover. She laughed and said that wasn't him but another colleague and that they don't even resemble. I purposely escalated.)
> 
> she: That guy is so nice, he also walks away from flirting just like you.
> me: Well I am not nice since I took your lover away from you and now you hate me for it.
> she: I have no bad feelings for you, I just sometimes flip angry but more and more I see there is no reason for me to act that way.
> me: And you say that your behaviour hasn't changed since this started? And you don't see how that affair drove our marriage to the verge?
> she: Do you really think it is that serious?
> me: I have nothing to think, I am 100% in here and my vision is not blurred.
> she: And mine still is?
> me: Well you certainly still feel the affair.
> she: Less and less.
> me: When you return maybe you will see what is left here.
> she: From your side or mine?
> me: Both.
> she: So you are getting cold about me?
> me: I don't know but I do know I lost my faith.
> she: Faith?
> me: In us.
> she: OK.
> me: Sounds bad but should I lie?
> she: OK. I deserved this and I will keep my mouth shut.
> me: This is not about deserving. Just focus on your recovery. If it was true love, take your time to heal.
> she: Don't make me laugh about that true love. But I still can't believe you said we can have extramarital sex.
> me: I didn't, I said the wows have been broken so there are no obstacles for those who want to.
> she: OK. Will you tell me if you cheat on me?
> me: I don't have anyone to cheat on.
> she: OK. File for divorce. I don't want to listen to this. And I want to stop having sex with you for a longer period of time due to these things you say. If I am nobody we have no reason to touch each other.
> me: So it's not because you just don't want to have sex with me? Except from pity or manipulation? (Since her lover gave her the no contact her drive went away)
> she: F*** off. You have nobody to cheat on?
> me: How can I cheat when the wows have been broken?
> she: F*** you and your wows (more swearing)
> me: (calmly) So, you stay behind this about no sex and divorce?
> she: How ever you wish. If I will be listening to this then yes. We will die apart, you in your perfect life and me in my misery.
> me: So either I behave your way or I don't get p*ssy anymore and I can also disappear?
> she: (a lot of swearing) You are disgusting. Move out. I won't tolerate anyone spitting and sh*tting on me.
> me: Telling the truth is not spitting.
> she: Think where you can move away because I don't want to look at you any more.
> me: OK.
> she: Don't come to vacation with us (next 2 weeks). Move out by July 15. We have nothing to talk about this way.
> me: Well we only talked about you and your lover anyway.
> she: I am all that I am interested in anyway. I will sign the papers when you bring them. Tell nothing to the kids.
> me: Oh so you decide for the kids yourself?
> she: Nobody was interested in me up until 2 months ago. You are only after horny p*ssy. I am afraid we will never talk nice again.
> me: We only talk nice when I accept all your terms.
> she: I don't care.
> me: I know you don't. You showed it by cheating on me.
> she: F*** off you b*stard.
> 
> There it is. I know I handled this badly but emotions are just too strong.


This is really painful to read. 180 180 180. Apply it


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

irrelevant said:


> Now she texted me from her work. In short:
> 
> "I am sorry for the marriage because affairs are worth of no marriage but still happen. It annoys me that you couldn't get over this even if I now acted as the most wonderful person possible. All of you prefer lies and manipulations, even you the saint. So it is not an insult that I am saying this should have been kept secret. What matters is that you are the one who chose to proclaim end of marriage. But it is actually about you not wanting/not being able to forgive. I thought it would be better not to say because I didn't want marriage to fall apart. But you wanted the truth even at the cost of falling apart."


In the parallel universe she lives in monogamy is something you project to your faithful partner, not something you practice. In her universe it's ok to cheat and lie to you and when discovered blame you for not being accepting that you were betrayed and lied to.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

irrelevant said:


> I had to call her regarding some kindergarten application. So after we handled that, of course we got back to the subject.
> 
> She now wants me to take the vacation and go with them. Our stay is planned in her sister's empty apartment in a seaside city. The July 15 move out deadline was not mentioned again.
> 
> She says that she doesn't want to listen any more of my accusations. She has had enough of that during this affair, enough during her EA 5 yrs ago and also inbetween. She wants me to decide on what happens next. She wants to stay with me but can't handle the condemnation.
> 
> She also said that we should stop being intimate for a certain period of time. I told her that can be stopped unilaterally.
> 
> Aftrewards she texted me that she is sorry for doing all of this to us. But she can't accept that this can anull all the years together. She proposes for us to think and not talk, that she gave me all the facts and not to call her a liar anymore. That I take time to decide. She also says that maybe we should be intimate anyway.
> 
> I see that I am being manipulated but just can't seem to find an appropriate reaction.


Having sex with her after she has been with someone else nullifies any divorce claim of infidelity. That still does matter in some states. Plus you might impregnate her. Do you really want another child with her? Or she might be pregnant and you don't know. Honey trap to make you the father. I know it's a stretch but whoa has it happened in the past. You really don't know who she is. All you know is whats she has admitted to directly and indirectly plus what you discovered. 

Don't be intimate with her, Tell her that ship sailed when she gave herself to another man. The appropriate reaction to anything she says is unless its about the welfare of the children say nothing. 180


----------



## VladDracul

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Having sex with her after she has been with someone else nullifies any divorce claim of infidelity.


Or any other grounds he may have. But according to the writer its a little late for the betrayed in this story to worry about that. His wife is not taking his reaction to her affair very well. Looks like the OM continues to have it in for him to.


----------



## irrelevant

I will try to give some explanations.

Divorce laws in my country don't regard infidelity at all. Culturally, divorce is accepted as a common civil event. Of course individual people have different opinions, but generally the society puts no specific cultural pressure on marriages.

In case of divorce, in theory courts protect the children and in practice it comes down to favouring the mothers. An acquaintant of mine who is divorced once met his 5 yr old son accidentaly in a crowded public setting we attended together. The boy ran to hug his dad but his mother stopped him. Father asked her to let him just have a few moments with his son, to which she replied that it is not his scheduled time. The boy started crying and screaming as she dragged him away. Father was helpless. Dozens of people witnessed that and stayed speechless. No consequences occured. Only pain for the boy and his father.

Anyway, OM is clearly out of the picture, if nothing, by his own choice. He wanted free fun, but then came the price. Exposure has jeopardized him and the fact that my wife has given me so many details, among which some are very intimate about him, angered him. It is clear that he has no feelings for her and only wanted to use her. He developed some kind of hostility towards her, and vice versa. Bad thing I realize is that what she resented him is actually him rejecting her. She still stayed in the state of being in love (some call it limerence but when it comes to her, hey, what the difference). I don't know how long this will last. I do know it will pass and probably she will start to feel like real s**t about herself then. But again it will be about herself.

Yesterday after work she had another rage burst, that I didn't respect her enough before and that she was a good and faithful wife and I didn't appreciate that. So she went on to do something that will give her a reason to endure "all the accusations". Here I must add that the "accusations" were related to her previous escapades towards other men. I never acted possesive. I even didn't check up on her phone, mail or fb up until she admitted hooking up with this guy. To add absurd, yesterday evening she told me she resents me for not being possesive enough and how she tells all her female friends that her husband is not jealous (contrary to them who claim theirs are).

She also told that she felt so bad about herself that she needed to be, I quote, "f***ed by some male pig".

I know that I have really given all the best of me (for what it's worth) into this marriage and family, and I can't get myself to just let it go. And the pain just seems to grow each day.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Where you children born in USA?


----------



## irrelevant

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Where you children born in USA?


No, none of us has never had any connection to the USA. We are all born and lived the whole time in the same country (within European Union) apart from a short period I spent working abroad (outside EU) but kept permanent residence in my home country.


----------



## irrelevant

She claims that she thinks what she did is bad. And says she is not proud of herself. But at the same time it made her feel good in a certain way. 

She just expects me to forgive and forget and move on with our life together. She claims that she probably won't repeat this. I know there is no guarantee. But I also sense that she doesn't even want to be able to give guarantee. I believe that, by thinking to herself that she is entitled to potential affairs in future, it makes her feel more empowered and more worth to herself.

Her insisting that we as a couple would have been better off if her affair had remained a secret has started to make me feel humiliated as a human, let alone a husband. And it doesn't actually encourage me to restore trust in her.

A few days ago I told her that I think I don't love her anymore. I didn't say it to hurt her, I just wanted to share how I felt. Since then she keeps repeating that I will leave her and that she knew she shouldn't have let that happen by confessing to me. 

I really don't have the mental power to comprehend all that.

I don't know what my true feelings towards her are anymore, and I don't know how much time and what actions to take to clear it out within myself.


----------



## irrelevant

I spoke to her on the phone.

She said: "Since this (affair) ended, day by day I find it more and more unimaginable that I even had the slightest idea of leaving our marriage."

Perhaps some filigree detail part of the meaning got lost in the translation, but I think I managed to translate the level of manipulation in that statement. 

This is so f***ed up that I almost want people to tell me "get a grip, forgive her, the woman loves you beyond universe can't you see". After all, she is physically beautiful, has a unique personality which outstands among the others (yes sometimes in a creepy way), is a great partner for a whole range of conversations, and is obviously very intelligent (given the manipulation level raising constantly). In addition to that she is a responsible and caring mother, has a rational approach to money and assets, and puts effort to maintain the functioning and logistics of the household.

But nevertheless, I couldn't resist but told her that I think our marriage died the moment when her affair turned physical. She snapped telling that she is fed up of listening to this (even though I have actually been saying so little lately) and that I just get a divorce if I want it. She hung up.

So she called me back a bit later to tell me that she doesn't want to get a divorce and that she can't believe I would end our marriage due to this infidelity incident. So I repeated I consider her to be the one who ended it and that now we are in a phase where we both individually need to determine what we want and then discuss it together.

Now, I know that this is a fair approach, but I don't feel emotionally ready to get that thinking done properly.


----------



## manwithnoname

irrelevant said:


> I spoke to her on the phone.
> 
> She said: "Since this (affair) ended, day by day I find it more and more unimaginable that I even had the slightest idea of leaving our marriage."
> 
> Perhaps some filigree detail part of the meaning got lost in the translation, but I think I managed to translate the level of manipulation in that statement.
> 
> This is so f***ed up that I almost want people to tell me "get a grip, forgive her, the woman loves you beyond universe can't you see". After all, she is physically beautiful, has a unique personality which outstands among the others (yes sometimes in a creepy way), is a great partner for a whole range of conversations, and is obviously very intelligent (given the manipulation level raising constantly). In addition to that she is a responsible and caring mother, has a rational approach to money and assets, and puts effort to maintain the functioning and logistics of the household.
> 
> But nevertheless, I couldn't resist but told her that I think our marriage died the moment when her affair turned physical. She snapped telling that she is fed up of listening to this (even though I have actually been saying so little lately) and that I just get a divorce if I want it. She hung up.
> 
> So she called me back a bit later to tell me that she doesn't want to get a divorce and that she can't believe I would end our marriage due to this infidelity incident. So I repeated I consider her to be the one who ended it and that now we are in a phase where we both individually need to determine what we want and then discuss it together.
> 
> Now, I know that this is a fair approach, but I don't feel emotionally ready to get that thinking done properly.


She senses all of your indecisiveness and weakness and is trying to manipulate you. She's trying to get you to feel guilty about not forgiving her. She's blaming you for the marriage being on the brink. And you're believing it all.

Whether you decide to divorce or not, do it because you decide to do it, because it is what is best for _*you*_. Do not discuss it with her, she'll only twist things around to suit her. Did she discuss anything with you when she decided to have the affair?


----------



## irrelevant

manwithnoname said:


> Did she discuss anything with you when she decided to have the affair?


Well... When she got back from the conference where they met, she admitted to have been attracted to a guy on the last night out. I was about to head abroad for 3 weeks so I asked her to get a grip on herself, which she said she will. When I left, at some point, she contacted him at work and it turned out he was interested so they started to meet up during working hours for coffee. Then she admitted that to me. Then I asked her to stop doing that, and came home early by surprise. She declined to have kept in touch with him, but two days after my return, they went on to consumate PA...

In a way I would say she did discuss it with me. But I was always a step behind. I know now that I could have taken a step forward by turning away from her, but even that doesn't mean she would actually have to choose because I have no way of surveillance over her 24/7, especially at her workplace.

I do feel my share of the guilt.


----------



## GusPolinski

Good Lord.

A few things...

1. That she regrets _admitting_ to the affair should be very telling to you. If anything, she should regret the affair itself. But she doesn't, and that indicates a couple of things:

A. She feels no shame for having engaged in the affair.

B. She doesn't value either loyalty or honesty. At least not so much that she's willing to extend either.

2. I can virtually guarantee that this wasn't her first PA. I'd also be willing to bet that she banged this guy before -- AND after -- you returned home.

3. You are precisely ZERO percent responsible for her affair(s).

4. When's the divorce?


----------



## Lostinthought61

Have you exposed her to her family ?


----------



## irrelevant

GusPolinski said:


> Good Lord.
> 
> A few things...
> 
> 1. That she regrets _admitting_ to the affair should be very telling to you. If anything, she should regret the affair itself. But she doesn't, and that indicates a couple of things:
> 
> A. She feels no shame for having engaged in the affair.
> 
> B. She doesn't value either loyalty or honesty. At least not so much that she's willing to extend either.
> 
> 2. I can virtually guarantee that this wasn't her first PA. I'd also be willing to bet that she banged this guy before -- AND after -- you returned home.
> 
> 3. You are precisely ZERO percent responsible for her affair(s).
> 
> 4. When's the divorce?


1. A&B - I agree. It did actually bring her back to "life" from a bad place she had been at for a long time. When joyful chemical hormone memories of this "life" go away, she will have a change of perspective.

2. I make no difference whether this is or isn't the case. Perhaps it is easier on me to think it isn't, but I do still believe that. But I don't actually occupy myself with it because I don't see it crucial here. I feel hurt as if it was the case.

3. True, but I could have done things to prevent them and put us in a better starting position to work out things which are not good.

4. When I get back on my feet and evaluate my options.




Lostinthought61 said:


> Have you exposed her to her family ?


No. Have been thinking about it but it would be a massive blow to many people, especially my kids. And since her family has a long history of cheating and divorces, it will only bring chaos. I don't feel ready for more chaos now. But I am considering to do it anyway.


----------



## farsidejunky

Irrelevant, you talk too much and act too little. You're still trying to get her to see in your way. How's all of that working for you?


----------



## turnera

If I were you, the only thing I would be doing right now is working closely with a lawyer to ensure you get the best possible custody outcome that you can get. Forget all the rest. Deal with the rest later. Right now, all you should care about is protecting your access to your son.


----------



## VladDracul

irrelevant said:


> This is so f***ed up that I almost want people to tell me "get a grip, forgive her, the woman loves you beyond universe can't you see". After all, she is physically beautiful, has a unique personality which outstands among the others (yes sometimes in a creepy way), is a great partner for a whole range of conversations, and is obviously very intelligent (given the manipulation level raising constantly). In addition to that she is a responsible and caring mother, has a rational approach to money and assets, and puts effort to maintain the functioning and logistics of the household.


Here's the thing my man; you would have been better off if she hadn't have told you. How can you argue with that knowing that this has you torqued up like it has. Why not forgive her and just put it behind you. She has the attributes you desire, bangs your brains out on a regular basis and by your own admission is a great mother. Your gone a good deal of the time, her hooking up with this guy was a temporary thing and would have happen with you out of pocket if you hadn't have come home early. Did her fling affect the sex or the other things she provides you with? I didn't think so and besides, it washed off nicely.
Think of it like a share cropper type farmer growing crops on your land. If you're getting a bounty from the farmer, why give all that up because it makes the farmer feel good to share a little of it with a neighbor when you're of town. Besides, who's to say if you replace the farmer, the new one may share even more or your crops. Its a matter of perspective Dawg.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

VladDracul said:


> Here's the thing my man; you would have been better off if she hadn't have told you. How can you argue with that knowing that this has you torqued up like it has. Why not forgive her and just put it behind you. She has the attributes you desire, bangs your brains out on a regular basis and by your own admission is a great mother. Your gone a good deal of the time, her hooking up with this guy was a temporary thing and would have happen with you out of pocket if you hadn't have come home early. Did her fling affect the sex or the other things she provides you with? I didn't think so and besides, it washed off nicely.
> Think of it like a share cropper type farmer growing crops on your land. If you're getting a bounty from the farmer, why give all that up because it makes the farmer feel good to share a little of it with a neighbor when you're of town. Besides, who's to say if you replace the farmer, the new one may share even more or your crops. Its a matter of perspective Dawg.




Brrrahah in your farming story I guess she's the hoe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MyRevelation

VladDracul said:


> Here's the thing my man; you would have been better off if she hadn't have told you. How can you argue with that knowing that this has you torqued up like it has. Why not forgive her and just put it behind you. She has the attributes you desire, bangs your brains out on a regular basis and by your own admission is a great mother. Your gone a good deal of the time, her hooking up with this guy was a temporary thing and would have happen with you out of pocket if you hadn't have come home early. Did her fling affect the sex or the other things she provides you with? I didn't think so and besides, it washed off nicely.
> Think of it like a share cropper type farmer growing crops on your land. If you're getting a bounty from the farmer, why give all that up because it makes the farmer feel good to share a little of it with a neighbor when you're of town. Besides, who's to say if you replace the farmer, the new one may share even more or your crops. Its a matter of perspective Dawg.


This type of approach just doesn't set well with me. I can't comprehend the lack of self respect required to act this way in the face of a WW's A.

However, CLEARLY there are plenty of BH's that simply don't have the self respect or the stones to stand up to their WW's. They may not be happy about it, but they will willingly get their Cuckold Card punched before taking any meaningful action to help themselves. Just look around on CWI right now ... irrelevant, anonymous and FTR are all in line to sign up for this type of M.

At this point, I'm inclined to spend my time elsewhere with BH's that have the strength and ability, but are just overwhelmed and/or lack basic knowledge of how to proceed, etc., and let the cucks stay in their dysfunctional M's and not go separate ways to mess up two other peoples lives.

Yeah ... it's cynical ... guilty as charged, but it has been my experience that what some call cynical, I have found to be reality. I enjoy helping BH's, but like most my time is limited, and I just don't see any use in wasting that time on people who dismiss and ignore that hard earned advice due to their own weaknesses.


----------



## VladDracul

It goes with the saying, "better the devil you know than the devil you don't". He's gone much of the time and according to him, all she's doing is permitting another gentleman to drink at the well and the well ain't going dry because of it. She doing the other guy(s) because she has desires that need filling while Irreverent is out of the country doing his thing. When he's back, she brings it on home to him. In the mean time she keeps up the home front and keeps him well F'd when he's in town. Hell, she even works outside the home. She apparently is a high drive woman and just the type woman who chooses to fill her husbands "absences" with something that doesn't require batteries.


----------



## Hope1964

VladDracul said:


> It goes with the saying, "better the devil you know than the devil you don't". He's gone much of the time and according to him, all she's doing is permitting another gentleman to drink at the well and the well ain't going dry because of it. She doing the other guy(s) because she has desires that need filling while Irreverent is out of the country doing his thing. When he's back, she brings it on home to him. In the mean time she keeps up the home front and keeps him well F'd when he's in town. Hell, she even works outside the home. She apparently is a high drive woman and just the type woman who chooses to fill her husbands "absences" with something that doesn't require batteries.


Well then, problem solved!! Just keep pretending you don't know what she's doing, and screw her brains out at every opportunity.


----------



## VladDracul

He doesn't have to pretend she not doing anything; just accept it as being a trade off for being married to a great looking/great mother type woman who need more "romance" than his lifestyle can provide. She could have played it close to the chest and he would have been none the wiser and happy as a lark. Now he knows and its up to him if he accepts the quid pro quo. It could be worse Hope. Would he be better off if she were a sahm who like many, does a half azz job taking care of the kids, keeps a disheveled home, running up credit cards and doling out duty sex only to get what she wants? When you think about it, women have been putting up with wayward men, their outside girlfriends, et cetera, for years just for some of the advantages he has. As long as he thinks of her as a FWB, nanny, traveling buddy, and house sitter, it ain't a bad deal. Plus, he has the justification to see other woman while on the road and come home to a hot meal and a willing woman. If I was him however, I'd let it be understood that I don't want any "friendly Henry's" warming up his bed so do whatever they do somewhere else.


----------



## GusPolinski

Very short-sided thinking there, Vlad.

Do you _seriously_ think she wouldn't wind up bailing on him at some point?

How long can she bang other dudes and maintain even a baseline level of respect for her husband?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

When the said ignorance is bliss they meant the village moron. 

She acts like an entitled cheater. She cuckolded her husband and demands under threat of miserable divorce that he accept that with no consequences on her part, she even does not promise to not do it again. She wants a pass to cheat. Was that part of your vows? Of course not. 

Divorce her. If that man had not rejected her she would probably be with him now. Do you enjoy being plan B? When she took her cloths off and spread her legs she stopped being your loyal wife. Dump her now. And fast. 

After a divorce if she ever expresses true remorse you can always marry her again.


----------



## irrelevant

GusPolinski said:


> Do you _seriously_ think she wouldn't wind up bailing on him at some point?
> 
> How long can she bang other dudes and maintain even a baseline level of respect for her husband?


This.

And also @Vlad and others, I just have to note that I have only been gone for a year and that with coming home each 2 months for a short time. Due to her expressing my absence put strain on herself and our marriage, I returned home for permanent and that is when she mounted the PA mountain.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Your being gone is no excuse. She should have left you first. I assume you are away making extra money to provide for your families future, a better life. She pays you back by mounting another man, humiliating you in the worst possible way. Betrayal. Who needs that? Tell her she made this mess but you don't have to live with it or accept that it is ok. The one thing globally accepted across all cultures as grounds for a divorce is infidelity. Divorce her.


----------



## irrelevant

VladDracul said:


> Did her fling affect the sex or the other things she provides you with? I didn't think so and besides, it washed off nicely.


Well she was distant and very aggressive.

How exactly did it wash off nicely when it only ended after I confronted the coward creep who then turned into smoke?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

irrelevant said:


> Well she was distant and very aggressive.
> 
> How exactly did it wash off nicely when it only ended after I confronted the coward creep who then turned into smoke?


That is great. You broke up the affair. Just don't be plan B.


----------



## _anonymous_

VladDracul said:


> Here's the thing my man; you would have been better off if she hadn't have told you. How can you argue with that knowing that this has you torqued up like it has. Why not forgive her and just put it behind you.


OP forgiving his wife would really amount to him accepting her behavior, with the expectation that it continue indefinitely. She won't see the error of her ways and change. Given his cuckold fantasies, he might be up for that. But needless to say, it's not a good path to go down for either his family or his marriage.

And even if OP forgives her, something tells me he would never forget. He'd be tormented about this, posting on TAM (and elsewhere) about his wife's exploits for years to come. Again, not good.



VladDracul said:


> Did her fling affect the sex or the other things she provides you with? I didn't think so and besides, it washed off nicely.


OP forgiving his wife because her PAs haven't interrupted things in his own bedroom is a risky move: he could easily get a STD. Don't think those wash off...



VladDracul said:


> She has the attributes you desire, bangs your brains out on a regular basis and by your own admission is a great mother.


Yeah true, but I don't think that's not enough for OP. Surely he wants a wife who wants him for more than a paycheck, childcare, and casual sex. 



VladDracul said:


> Think of it like a share cropper type farmer growing crops on your land. If you're getting a bounty from the farmer, why give all that up because it makes the farmer feel good to share a little of it with a neighbor when you're of town. Besides, who's to say if you replace the farmer, the new one may share even more or your crops.


This share cropper is burning OP's fields, and giving away crops to rival farmers! It's a bad situation, from which OP should remove himself as soon as possible.

No one should tolerate infidelity in their marriage just because other potential mates could likewise be unfaithful. Always a possibility, and never a shortage of crappy people in the world. 

I'd say it's the lesser risk for sure. That's like staying in a burning building because there might be a hail storm outside. Not wise.


----------



## MyRevelation

_anonymous_ said:


> OP forgiving his wife would really amount to him accepting her behavior, with the expectation that it continue indefinitely. She won't see the error of her ways and change.
> .
> .
> And even if OP forgives her, something tells me he would never forget. He'd be tormented about this, posting on TAM (and elsewhere) about his wife's exploits for years to come. Again, not good.


You really need to read what you've posted above and apply it to your own situation.


----------



## VladDracul

irrelevant said:


> Well she was distant and very aggressive.
> 
> How exactly did it wash off nicely when it only ended after I confronted the coward creep who then turned into smoke?


Of course she was distant and aggressive. You kept hounding her about one little misdemeanor and it was likely her defense mechanism for your diatribe. Look my man, you knew she was a high drive woman when you married her. What did you expect would happen when you left her to chase money being offered by a traveling job. She was there alone, filled with desire, you not around, and plenty of guys that talk just as sweet as you. You bear a lot of responsibility for putting her in that position. If you weren't so into money that you're willing to leave your wife and kids, so most likely wouldn't have gotten ginned up on doing another man. And sure it washed off nicely. You fessed up to that when you admitted ya'll had sex virtually every day you're home. 
As far as the OM goes, why should he get into a confrontation with you over a little strange and willing poon tang that happens to be married to you. I mean some things are just for fun and fighting over it just spoils the aura and very pleasant memories of their "coucherie". Rather than being a coward, he is likely looking at is a your problem.


----------



## _anonymous_

MyRevelation said:


> You really need to read what you've posted above and apply it to your own situation.


My comment applied to what? OP's cheating wife. OP's wife and my wife are entirely different (thank God). Therefore, my advice to OP is less valuable for me to implement myself. After all, I'm not married to a cheater, with kids in tow.

I can accept my wife as she is: a law-abiding, debt-free, educated, and productive member of society... who has only shared a bed with me (I'm her first). 

I cannot accept cheating, and quite frankly, I don't think any faithful married person should accept cheating. 

OP is best served by NOT forgiving cheating, and NOT accepting it. But, for example, if OP's wife lost her purse at a salon and blamed him for it instead of accepting personal responsibility, that might be something OP could look past... if his marriage was worth anything to him. 

Apples and oranges, sir. You seem to struggle with the difference


----------



## VladDracul

_anonymous_ said:


> This share cropper is burning OP's fields, and giving away crops to rival farmers! It's a bad situation, from which OP should remove himself as soon as possible.
> 
> No one should tolerate infidelity in their marriage just because other potential mates could likewise be unfaithful. Always a possibility, and never a shortage of crappy people in the world.
> 
> I'd say it's the lesser risk for sure. That's like staying in a burning building because there might be a hail storm outside. Not wise.


My impression is that now he's home, she's willing to limit most of her strong libido to him. If he can keep up she's good with that.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

GusPolinski said:


> Good Lord.
> 
> A few things...
> 
> 1. That she regrets _admitting_ to the affair should be very telling to you. If anything, she should regret the affair itself. But she doesn't, and that indicates a couple of things:
> 
> A. She feels no shame for having engaged in the affair.
> 
> B. She doesn't value either loyalty or honesty. At least not so much that she's willing to extend either.
> 
> 2. I can virtually guarantee that this wasn't her first PA. I'd also be willing to bet that she banged this guy before -- AND after -- you returned home.
> 
> 3. You are precisely ZERO percent responsible for her affair(s).
> 
> 4. When's the divorce?


5. If you are crazy enough to stay with her she will assuredly have more affairs. She already feels entitled to them and if you stay with her she will take that as your complicit permission.


----------



## MyRevelation

_anonymous_ said:


> Apples and oranges, sir. You seem to struggle with the difference


... and you seem to struggle with the similarities.

Disrespectful *****es are disrespectful *****es. This one just took her disrespectful *****yness in a different direction than yours has, but you are both dealing with the same underlying problem, and you are both handling it (or not handling it) in the same fashion.

Deny it, and continue as you are at your own peril and misery.


----------



## irrelevant

VladDracul said:


> My impression is that now he's home, she's willing to limit most of her strong libido to him. If he can keep up she's good with that.


My impression is the same. But it could change at a point in time.

Just once again I underline the fact that she met the OM whilst she was away for 3 days and I was home watching the kids, and she landed the lay when I was again home.

I consider it to be inapropriate for this forum but what the eck, she even complained that she didn't finish intense enough with OM due to her doing it with me the evening before.

So I was home, and obviously a pest.


----------



## badmemory

Irrelevant, 

Your wife has no clue that a cheating spouse first has to demonstrate remorse if she wants a chance to R. The concept is completely foreign to her. She's not even pretending. She's that entitled. I don't know how you can even stand to be in the same room with her anymore.

Here's another concept she doesn't get; cheating has consequences and she has to accept them to R.

But there's another problem. You really don't believe in those concepts yourself. If you did, you'd have followed the good advice you've been given.

Good luck to you.


----------



## _anonymous_

MyRevelation said:


> ... and you seem to struggle with the similarities.
> 
> Disrespectful *****es are disrespectful *****es. This one just took her disrespectful *****yness in a different direction than yours has, but you are both dealing with the same underlying problem, and you are both handling it (or not handling it) in the same fashion.
> 
> Deny it, and continue as you are at your own peril and misery.


I think your point is valid. Both are disrespect. Also, you should consider your warnings to me heeded vs. ignored. I get what you're saying.

But I do believe "different direction" in your post could be replaced fairly with "different level". Infidelity > Emotional Abuse

The trend lines and the potential of inaction are the problem for OP, and also, myself. If divorce-worthy disrespect continues and it doesn't eventually cause divorce, the disrespected have only themselves to blame.

OP would be well advised to make an exit plan... this marriage has divorce written all over it.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

irrelevant said:


> My impression is the same. But it could change at a point in time.
> 
> Just once again I underline the fact that she met the OM whilst she was away for 3 days and I was home watching the kids, and she landed the lay when I was again home.
> 
> I consider it to be inapropriate for this forum but what the eck, _she even complained that she didn't finish intense enough with OM due to her doing it with me the evening before_.
> 
> So I was home, and obviously a pest.



Those words left her mouth towards you? Too bad you didn't vomit on her.


----------



## VladDracul

irrelevant said:


> Just once again I underline the fact that she met the OM whilst she was away for 3 days and I was home watching the kids, and she landed the lay when I was again home.
> 
> I consider it to be inapropriate for this forum but what the eck, she even complained that she didn't finish intense enough with OM due to her doing it with me the evening before.
> 
> So I was home, and obviously a pest.


Well the wheels were already in motion. Virtually all women have already slept with the guy in their mind before they actually sleep with them. The test drive was already scheduled. Additionally, I think its a waste of effort to worry about whether she "finished intense enough". If she got it hours before she gave it up to the OM, its natural her orgasm was toned down a bit. Nothing to get overly excited about and besides, if she didn't get quite as much out of it as she thought, its her problem. You were satisfied, right. A number of women would be happy for any kind of an orgasm at all. Tell her she should be thankful.


----------



## bankshot1993

I've been following this post since it started and I may be wrong but I have to say, this one still stinks to me. I simply can't wrap my head around this being real. I can't rationalize any human being this weak and still have the functional ability to leave the house without balling up in a corner.

I know that this is super harsh but seriously, if this is real and you are foolish enough to want to stay with this woman than you need to show her that you actually are a man and everything that you've done to this point has done nothing but prove to her that you are her *****.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Your story is hard to follow and read leading many to doubt its veracity. I have asked you the following before and you have curiously chosen not to reply:


1. How did you find out about when and where she fvcked him ? Did she finally tell you all this ? If so, you have made no mention of it in your posts here which now are hard to read and follow. Why did she tell you (if she did) ?

2. Which country in the EU are you from ? This may help me understand the way in which this is being approached - I am familiar with many of the cultures in the EU and I have never seen any take this laid back an approach to a wife fvcking another man and bargaining with the husband as to why he should let her do it AND the husband partially entertaining these negotiations!!! So where are you and your wife from ? Very simple question the answer to which could lend some credence to your story.

3. And finally - I don't fully understand what you hope to achieve here. Your thread title suggests that you "want to help your wife feel at ease"?!?!?

Lets see if we can get straight answers to these questions - if not I, for one, am out of here.


----------



## VladDracul

I think I'm going to stick with Irreverent for a while longer and try to convince him to forgive her and do what he needs to do to win her back and save his marriage?


----------



## manfromlamancha

VladDracul said:


> I think I'm going to stick with Irreverent for a while longer and try to convince him to forgive her and do what he needs to do to win her back and save his marriage?


I think that is good for Irreverent. But what about Irrelevant (aka the OP)?


----------



## VladDracul

How he spells his name is Irrelevant. My main concern is if his constant bellyaching about her one time thing with the OM may have done irreparable harm to their relationship and she's going to kick him to the curb. He needs to stop this harangue about her "experiment" and accept responsibility for ignoring her needs. She didn't marry him to be a absentee husband. off chasing a dream and dumping all responsibility for the home and kid on her. Can you really blame her for seeking someone who may care enough to give her a little attention. If he doesn't learn his lesson, its only going to result in a repeat of the past.


----------



## manfromlamancha

He's not bellyaching at all. She quite simply likes to cheat, wants the variety and expects him to accept it !!!

I agree he needs to learn his lesson and dump her like yesterday!


----------



## irrelevant

Last night we were intimate again and it was really intense. I can't really tell anymore if it is manipulation, but I admit not having either power or will to refuse such an experience.

Thank you all for your inputs, I will try to readdress some of the questions in order to give some clarifications and will also appreciate some clarifications from your respected perspectives.



eric1 said:


> Wow I've never seen gas lighting this bad.


What is the goal, I mean long term goal of this gaslighting?



farsidejunky said:


> Make short statements about what you will accept one time, then stop talking and show her through action that you mean what you say.


This would now apply as being quiet, snoop after her for years and file for divorce after first piece of evidence of another adultery?



manwithnoname said:


> Once you move to the next step closer to divorce, she will change again to suck you back in. Beware.


My reluctancy to file doesn't at all mean that I will ever look back in case I decide to file.



badmemory said:


> Not with a manipulative and unremorseful wife.


Absurd is that she was like that way before this affair... I suppose all the way since her limerence phase with me ended.



Lostinthought61 said:


> if nothing else leave if only to demonstrate to yourself that you have self-respect for yourself, otherwise you have demonstrated to her that you are a Plan B, beta male....and you know that it will not be a case of if she does this again but when.


I know. But leaving to demonstrate also makes no sense to me. If I am to leave, it should be towards a clear picture of a better life for myself. And I am nowhere near having that picture.



Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Plus you might impregnate her. Do you really want another child with her?


I think yes. 



farsidejunky said:


> Irrelevant, you talk too much and act too little. You're still trying to get her to see in your way. How's all of that working for you?


Still hoping to achieve it I guess.



turnera said:


> If I were you, the only thing I would be doing right now is working closely with a lawyer to ensure you get the best possible custody outcome that you can get. Forget all the rest. Deal with the rest later. Right now, all you should care about is protecting your access to your son.


I prepared the custody "battle" with a lawyer. Just for the record, I don't have a son, only two daughters.



GusPolinski;18107553Do you [i said:


> seriously[/i] think she wouldn't wind up bailing on him at some point?


I admit THIS EXACTLY is the main issue I am dealing with in my mind.



Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> After a divorce if she ever expresses true remorse you can always marry her again.


I don't know what is the occurence of this, but from my point of view it would be a case where pain from divorce and after-divorce life caused remorse. So remorse is sort of inflicted, not intrinsic.



manfromlamancha said:


> Your story is hard to follow and read leading many to doubt its veracity. I have asked you the following before and you have curiously chosen not to reply:
> 
> 1. How did you find out about when and where she fvcked him ? Did she finally tell you all this ? If so, you have made no mention of it in your posts here which now are hard to read and follow. Why did she tell you (if she did) ?
> 
> 2. Which country in the EU are you from ? This may help me understand the way in which this is being approached - I am familiar with many of the cultures in the EU and I have never seen any take this laid back an approach to a wife fvcking another man and bargaining with the husband as to why he should let her do it AND the husband partially entertaining these negotiations!!! So where are you and your wife from ? Very simple question the answer to which could lend some credence to your story.
> 
> 3. And finally - I don't fully understand what you hope to achieve here. Your thread title suggests that you "want to help your wife feel at ease"?!?!?
> 
> Lets see if we can get straight answers to these questions - if not I, for one, am out of here.


1. She told me. I asked for a lot of detail and got quite a lot of detail. She told me "because I kept pressing her". I suppose she also felt some guilt, and the fact that I am the only person she can truely confide in, and perhaps she subconsciously wanted me to know so I react in a way of "saving" her? Who knows why she told me. It's complex. But all I got to know came from her mouth.

2. I did choose not to answer this a couple of times given the fact that I am uncomfortable disclosing facts which lower the anonimity. But also, culture of the country only applies on a (supposed) majority of cases. Both my wife and I have failed to fit in with the majority in many aspects of social life. So I stand firm that this fact contributes neither to credence nor the understanding of this story.

3. The topic got it's title at the moment when I thought my wife was struggling with the fact that she is attracted to another man and trying to put that struggle behind her. Actually it was already past the PA and she was only struggling to hide it, which in the end she didn't manage to. What I am trying to achieve is - sincerely as it gets - to get my wife back. But can't seem to make piece with reality of who she is/was/became/will be.



VladDracul said:


> How he spells his name is Irrelevant. My main concern is if his constant bellyaching about her one time thing with the OM may have done irreparable harm to their relationship and she's going to kick him to the curb. He needs to stop this harangue about her "experiment" and accept responsibility for ignoring her needs. She didn't marry him to be a absentee husband. off chasing a dream and dumping all responsibility for the home and kid on her. Can you really blame her for seeking someone who may care enough to give her a little attention. If he doesn't learn his lesson, its only going to result in a repeat of the past.


Two remarks here:
- I went on a money chase after her complaining about our finances for years
- she had an unresponded EA 5 yrs ago when I wasn't absent from home even for one single night

But you are spot on with my main concern, and that is whether or not will she bail on me. Of course that can happen in every single scenario of my actions. There is no general recipe and I am hoping to find a specific one for myself.

I have no intention of walking away for her coming running after me. If I leave, I leave for myself and she is dead to me. But I don't feel like leaving just yet. I feel like having some more business to do with her. Even though it is difficult and painful.


----------



## VladDracul

irrelevant said:


> Last night we were intimate again and it was really intense. I can't really tell anymore if it is manipulation, but I admit not having either power or will to refuse such an experience.


Ain't no need to explain yourself to us Irrelevant; nothing wrong with letting her service you. Its like my granddaddy use to say, "just because your neighbor saddled up and rode your mare into town, don't mean you can't saddle up and ride her into town to."


----------



## farsidejunky

You are clearly okay with this situation on some level or you would not allow it continue.

I am stepping away, with one passing piece of advice. Like all advice on this site, it is free, so take it for what it is worth.

No matter what, where, when, or whom you choose, you have only one person to answer to, and it is the man in the mirror staring back at you. If you can view that man with pride and contentment, then you will always be okay.


----------



## GusPolinski

Geez.

The gaslighting is about keeping you in line.

Threatening to throw you out is about keeping you in line.

The sex is about keeping you in line.

...as in "in line" behind all the other guys she's banging when you're not around. Because you can believe there have been more than just the one, and that the sex is just as good for them.

At some point she's going to wind up with some guy that _does_ reciprocate her feelings, and then she'll be gone. He'll tell her he loves her and how awesome and special she is and how he'd _never_ share her with some other guy like her pathetic husband is OK with doing... and that will be it.

In the meantime, do yourself a favor and install a condom machine on your bedroom wall.


----------



## GusPolinski

VladDracul said:


> Ain't no need to explain yourself to us Irrelevant; nothing wrong with letting her service you. Its like my granddaddy use to say, "just because your neighbor saddled up and rode your mare into town, don't mean you can't saddle up and ride her into town to."


Dumbest analogy ever, Dawg.


----------



## turnera

GusPolinski said:


> In the meantime, do yourself a favor and install a condom machine on your bedroom wall.


And set up a recurring doctor's appointment for your regular STD test.


----------



## VladDracul

GusPolinski said:


> At some point she's going to wind up with some guy that does reciprocate her feelings for him, and then she'll be gone.


No doubt that's likely to happen. That being the case, he may a well tap it as much as he can, as long as he can. Besides, like my other granddaddy said, "one chicken can feed more than one person".


----------



## _anonymous_

GusPolinski said:


> Dumbest analogy ever, Dawg.


Man, am I only one besides Vlad who actually LIKES his analogies?!


----------



## VladDracul

I appreciate you Anonymous.


----------



## irrelevant

Hi again... We went on the scheduled family vacation 10 days ago. Next day my company offered me a new assignment abroad. I accepted. 5 times the salary I make at home. Coming home every 2 months for a 2 weeks. Longer leave during holidays.

Next day my wife flipped on me yelling that I am leaving her alone to take care of the home and the kids. She also hit me a few times, I didn't fight back.

We went on with the vacation. She complains about small things all the time. Like leaving a tip to the bartender. Or choosing a bad table. Or buying the wrong brand of milk. Often being aggressive. I try to ignore it.

On occasion I express my resentment towards her behaviour. She sometimes gives me more detail about the affair and her views of it. I resent that also. But it gets worked out on a daily basis.

What doesn't get worked out is the fact I am trying my best and it doesn't mean anything to her. She just dismisses stuff. It totally discourages me, especially when we go out. I assume she didn't complain about table selection when she went out with her lover. I feel like I need to fill some impossible expectations to reap any reward while some other guy got everything even while not caring about her needs and wishes.

So last night I couldn't take it anymore. We went out and she made a clown out of me all evening long and I flipped and told her I don't want to try any more and that I don't need someone who takes my efforts as fuel for their own twisted games. I told her that if she had problems, she can go pursue her lover because there is more chance of him having mercy for her that her having mercy for me. I also told her I consider this marriage to be over and that to be the case since she cheated sexually. She hit me a few times and trashed a lot of insults on me, even telling me she hopes I will just drop dead.

When we got home I took off the ring. I feel cheated on in just so many ways. We didn't touch at all last night. I slept bad and woke up sad. Took some pills.

Today she wanted to come close a few times and cuddle but I avoided contact. She asked me am I staying with the decision that I don't want anything to do with her. I ignored that.

I want to stay these few days for going to the beach with the kids. I don't want intimacy with her.

I know that I am emotion lead in all this but just can't do any better.


----------



## eric1

irrelevant said:


> Last night we were intimate again and it was really intense. I can't really tell anymore if it is manipulation, but I admit not having either power or will to refuse such an experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you all for your inputs, I will try to readdress some of the questions in order to give some clarifications and will also appreciate some clarifications from your respected perspectives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What is the goal, I mean long term goal of this gaslighting?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This would now apply as being quiet, snoop after her for years and file for divorce after first piece of evidence of another adultery?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My reluctancy to file doesn't at all mean that I will ever look back in case I decide to file.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absurd is that she was like that way before this affair... I suppose all the way since her limerence phase with me ended.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know. But leaving to demonstrate also makes no sense to me. If I am to leave, it should be towards a clear picture of a better life for myself. And I am nowhere near having that picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still hoping to achieve it I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I prepared the custody "battle" with a lawyer. Just for the record, I don't have a son, only two daughters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I admit THIS EXACTLY is the main issue I am dealing with in my mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what is the occurence of this, but from my point of view it would be a case where pain from divorce and after-divorce life caused remorse. So remorse is sort of inflicted, not intrinsic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. She told me. I asked for a lot of detail and got quite a lot of detail. She told me "because I kept pressing her". I suppose she also felt some guilt, and the fact that I am the only person she can truely confide in, and perhaps she subconsciously wanted me to know so I react in a way of "saving" her? Who knows why she told me. It's complex. But all I got to know came from her mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. I did choose not to answer this a couple of times given the fact that I am uncomfortable disclosing facts which lower the anonimity. But also, culture of the country only applies on a (supposed) majority of cases. Both my wife and I have failed to fit in with the majority in many aspects of social life. So I stand firm that this fact contributes neither to credence nor the understanding of this story.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. The topic got it's title at the moment when I thought my wife was struggling with the fact that she is attracted to another man and trying to put that struggle behind her. Actually it was already past the PA and she was only struggling to hide it, which in the end she didn't manage to. What I am trying to achieve is - sincerely as it gets - to get my wife back. But can't seem to make piece with reality of who she is/was/became/will be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two remarks here:
> 
> - I went on a money chase after her complaining about our finances for years
> 
> - she had an unresponded EA 5 yrs ago when I wasn't absent from home even for one single night
> 
> 
> 
> But you are spot on with my main concern, and that is whether or not will she bail on me. Of course that can happen in every single scenario of my actions. There is no general recipe and I am hoping to find a specific one for myself.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no intention of walking away for her coming running after me. If I leave, I leave for myself and she is dead to me. But I don't feel like leaving just yet. I feel like having some more business to do with her. Even though it is difficult and painful.



The reason to use any logical fallacy is to distract and manipulate


----------



## irrelevant

It's been quite some time since my last update. I had some meltdowns but also put in some efforts to try to understand my W. Perhaps some steps towards reconciliation have been made, but there has also been some setbacks, so it is still unclear where this is going.

So these are some notes on what has been going on:

- We are still together, I managed to postpone the terrain work assignment, we still spend a lot of time together, we do a lot of stuff together, we sleep in the same bed, sex life is constantly at a high level. Neither one of us is in counseling. I only went alone two times in June.

- No new revelations about the A. No contact between W and OM, she told me she ran into him a few weeks ago in a restaurant during lunch time but they didn't talk or even make eye contact. She says that it seems the repulsion is mutual and noted that he looked very bad and miserable.

- Symptoms of a minor STD have occured after the A (candidiasis - possibly due to chlamidia), full STD check not yet performed

- Mid-July, while we were on vacation, we went out and I encouraged her, since she wanted other men, and I wanted the OM significance to fade, to pick up a guy at a club. So we split at the club, she picked a guy, came onto him, they talked for a while, kissed, and they headed out (towards his boat - as it turned out later, he was on a sailing trip with his buddies). I saw them walking away but couldn't handle it and I stepped in and broke it off. For a few weeks W sort of resented me for doing it and I sensed that she really felt attraction for the guy.

- Mid-August, we arranged a swinging session with another couple of our age. We were all in the same room, W had brief (protected) intercourse with the man, but I didn't do the same with the woman. She was a very attractive woman with a nice personality, and she tried hard to help me, but I just couldn't get excited, so we broke off the whole thing. Two hours later I had intense intercourse with W. I just don't want sex with other women.

- End of August, we arranged a threesome with a man, it went as planned, we had an MFM (protected), W seemed very excited and it was intense. Later she told me that she always fantasized about trying sex with two guys and that it was good and is happy to have tried it, but she preffered sex with me.

- During September, we met up for drinks with few swinger couples, but we didn't engage in sexual activity. Each and every time we were invited by the other couple to do so, but we rejected.

- Usual quarrels regarding everyday life usually end with moving the topic to her infidelity. I also seem to have paranoid ideas from time to time that she is making or maintaining contact with men (including perhaps OM). There are also occasional meltdowns from my side when something reminds me of the A or some special things before the A. These meltdowns consist of me accusing her and continue as heavy arguments. She sometimes makes it physical but I never return the strikes. When angry, she says that she shouldn't have confessed and that we would all be better off if she had kept it a secret, and that hurts me.

- During one meltdown a few days ago, I made a draft of consensual divorce papers, signed them, and gave them to her to sign. She got very angry, signed the papers, returned them to me and went away. An hour later she called me and asked me not to turn the papers in. So I didn't. I don't know if I would have in case she hadn't called.

- She keeps saying that she wants us to work this out, that she is now certain that she doesn't want sex with other men except if I let her and with me present, that she doesn't want any emotional relationships with other men, and that she knows now what a mistake she made by having an affair. She says that she doesn't want a divorce.

- She is a difficult person to live with, never satisfied with anything, very impulsive and irritable. I want to make her happy but it seems I am not able to do it.

- Sometimes I tell her that I think she would easily leave me if she fell in love with someone else. She denies it strongly, but I think she is not even aware how close she came to that.

- I can't seem to get a grasp on trusting her and still feel betrayed, undeserving and inadequate. I started having regular suicidal thoughts but I manage to fight them off through being with the kids. 

So, this is how things are at the moment.


----------



## GusPolinski

So your response to a crap marriage with a cheating wife is to encourage her to bang other dudes?

Well... you get what you pay for.

You’re getting played.

Hopefully you’ll realize that before too long.


----------



## irrelevant

GusPolinski said:


> You’re getting played.


Does she know this?


----------



## GusPolinski

irrelevant said:


> Does she know this?


Since she’s the one playing you, I’d imagine so.


----------



## eric1

You are in a death spiral. There is literally nothing that we can do to help you beyond state the obvious next action


----------



## irrelevant

eric1 said:


> You are in a death spiral. There is literally nothing that we can do to help you beyond state the obvious next action


Which is...?


----------



## Blondilocks

Good God, man DIVORCE!


----------



## turnera

There is a dysfunction in your marriage and if you don't fix it, you won't stay married. That dysfunction is her inability to be happy. That requires therapy on her part because, as soon as she feels you've 'settled down' and no longer considering divorce, she'll relax and she'll start noticing other ways to make herself temporarily happy. And that might include more men. 

SHE needs to figure out why she is the way she is, for anything to change.

I must say, too, it doesn't look like a hell of a lot of humility and remorse on her part. She SAYS the right things, but she sure doesn't ACT the right things. Her calling you and saying she doesn't want to get divorced? How did that become HER decision?


----------



## syhoybenden

You sir are a glutton for punishment.

You have now given me some insight into how cuckolds are born.


----------



## Malaise

irrelevant said:


> - I can't seem to get a grasp on trusting her and still feel betrayed, undeserving and inadequate.


You* can't *trust her. You *have* been betrayed ( probably still ).

You keep doing this to yourself so, yeah, you deserve it.

Just divorce already.


----------



## SunCMars

I cannot post here.

Too, just too......


----------



## MyRevelation

No sympathy from me ... you've gotten exactly what you signed up for.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

@irrelevent,

Your wife is telling you she enjoys sex with other men in front of you and loves you to watch and provide emotional stability and understanding the rest of time. She is a "hotwife" and you are a cuckold. You can stop being a cuckold by divorcing her. Or you can accept that is what you want by staying married. There is no middle ground. She is not going to change. If she swears she will not cheat, she is lying. It's part of her thrill. She will do it in 6 minutes standing up in a dive bar restroom while you are unaware. She will never stop. And I hate to break the news to you but she loves humiliating you, either secretly or overt. If not overt yet as in saying "He bangs me better", "his **** is bigger.. " she soon will. Then comes a cage. Look it up. And she loves how you have hot sex with her afterwards in order to 'reclaim' her. Win Win for her. What about you? Is that the marriage you want? If so post on a cuckold forum. If not divorce her and meet a monogamous partner. Your choice, no one else's. Good luck.


----------



## Rob_1

This has to be a made up tread. I do not believe it to be real. Some guy is jerking around to entice responses. You would have to be the most spineless, weakest cuckold, excuse of a doormat man for this OP to be in this situation with his suppose wife.


----------



## Jus260

irrelevant;18462322. said:


> - Mid-July, while we were on vacation, we went out and I encouraged her, since she wanted other men, and I wanted the OM significance to fade, to pick up a guy at a club. So we split at the club, she picked a guy, came onto him, they talked for a while, kissed, and they headed out (towards his boat - as it turned out later, he was on a sailing trip with his buddies). I saw them walking away but couldn't handle it and I stepped in and broke it off. For a few weeks W sort of resented me for doing it and I sensed that she really felt attraction for the guy.
> 
> 
> 
> - Usual quarrels regarding everyday life usually end with moving the topic to her infidelity.



Is this real or is this a troll post?

And as far as that last sentence is concerned, how does anything come back to her infidelity if you seem to be in complete agreement of it? 

You can't accuse someone of cheating on a test if you gave them a copy of all of the answers and watched them use it to complete the test.


----------



## TAMAT

irrelevant,

If you are real this is going to destroy your mental health, your WW may have made you numb to her behavior but the damage is still accumulating. 

I don't often post in favor of divorce but the case for it is overwhelming. 

Tamat


----------



## irrelevant

This is a real story. Unless I have been completely delusional for the last 13 years. Also there is a possibility that I am painting all the events to my favour, and perhaps my W's side of the story would shed a different light to it.

I will try to refer to some questions with extra explanations.

She didn't say it is up to her to decide on divorce. She just said she is sure SHE doesn't want it. And she called me and asked (not actually begged but humbly asked) me to reconsider and not file. Next day she said that she felt happy for being given the chance to continue. Most of the time she is remorseful, not as in miserable but rather introspectively, and also gives me a lot of attention. But when she pops into her angry mood, she uses the A to hurt me and it does do it's purpose well.

I am not afraid of her having a quick fwack in a bar toilet because I know it just isn't her thing. Her thing is falling in love and all other obsessive behaviours. She wants attention, she wants to occupy a person in whole just like she did with me. With that person she would have a 5minute dance in the restroom but she would also look for a chance to run away for as long as it could last.

She promises to stay faithful... She claims to have found out that she doesn't need or want anyone else... She says that she doesn't know what else she can do to proove her commitment... But I don't need proof, I need her to accept me as I am and our life as it is, because the fact that she never did it led to the affair in the first place... And I keep telling her that, but she just doesn't get it...


----------



## Ckone1800

irrelevant said:


> This is a real story. Unless I have been completely delusional for the last 13 years. Also there is a possibility that I am painting all the events to my favour, and perhaps my W's side of the story would shed a different light to it.
> 
> I will try to refer to some questions with extra explanations.
> 
> She didn't say it is up to her to decide on divorce. She just said she is sure SHE doesn't want it. And she called me and asked (not actually begged but humbly asked) me to reconsider and not file. Next day she said that she felt happy for being given the chance to continue. Most of the time she is remorseful, not as in miserable but rather introspectively, and also gives me a lot of attention. But when she pops into her angry mood, she uses the A to hurt me and it does do it's purpose well.
> 
> I am not afraid of her having a quick fwack in a bar toilet because I know it just isn't her thing. Her thing is falling in love and all other obsessive behaviours. She wants attention, she wants to occupy a person in whole just like she did with me. With that person she would have a 5minute dance in the restroom but she would also look for a chance to run away for as long as it could last.
> 
> She promises to stay faithful... She claims to have found out that she doesn't need or want anyone else... She says that she doesn't know what else she can do to proove her commitment... But I don't need proof, I need her to accept me as I am and our life as it is, because the fact that she never did it led to the affair in the first place... And I keep telling her that, but she just doesn't get it...




You can't make her "get it." And alcoholics in the bar cannot be expected to sober up for long. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lostinthought61

Personally I think your the one in denial, I think your a closet cuckold, and you get mad at a wife you dangle other men in front of her only to take it away, you can't have sex with other women, and you get upset and then tell her you want a divorce....then pull it back...your seriously messed up.


----------



## irrelevant

Lostinthought61 said:


> your seriously messed up.


That is what I am trying to untangle. Where and when did it go wrong. And is there a possibility to fix things.


----------



## manwithnoname

irrelevant said:


> That is what I am trying to untangle. Where and when did it go wrong. And is there a possibility to fix things.


You can't fix things. They either continue with you allowing other men to **** her, she ****s other men without your knowledge/permission, or she asks for a divorce.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

irrelevant said:


> This is a real story. Unless I have been completely delusional for the last 13 years. Also there is a possibility that I am painting all the events to my favour, and perhaps my W's side of the story would shed a different light to it.
> 
> I will try to refer to some questions with extra explanations.
> 
> She didn't say it is up to her to decide on divorce. She just said she is sure SHE doesn't want it. And she called me and asked (not actually begged but humbly asked) me to reconsider and not file. Next day she said that she felt happy for being given the chance to continue. Most of the time she is remorseful, not as in miserable but rather introspectively, and also gives me a lot of attention. But when she pops into her angry mood, she uses the A to hurt me and it does do it's purpose well.
> 
> I am not afraid of her having a quick fwack in a bar toilet because I know it just isn't her thing. Her thing is falling in love and all other obsessive behaviours. She wants attention, she wants to occupy a person in whole just like she did with me. With that person she would have a 5minute dance in the restroom but she would also look for a chance to run away for as long as it could last.
> 
> She promises to stay faithful... She claims to have found out that she doesn't need or want anyone else... _She says that she doesn't know what else she can do to proove her commitment... But I don't need proof, I need her to accept me as I am and our life as it is, because the fact that she never did it led to the affair in the first place... And I keep telling her that, but she just doesn't get it_...


Don't you see the massive inconsistencies in what you wrote here? In her angry mood she is glad she cheated and blames you for it. Punishes you with evil glee. That is someone who deep inside really enjoyed hurting you. I even think it arouses her. She is wired that way. 

Then when she wants to keep her emotional tampon buttered up she claims she loves you do death and does not know what else to do...

Its your life dude. You should not have to remind your wife that keeping her legs closed to other men was not the marriage you wanted. She clearly loves sex with strange. Let her go.


----------



## irrelevant

Thing is with her it's not sex with strange she loves. It's infatuation with emotions of attraction, excitement, being safe and loved, giving and receiving attention.


----------



## GusPolinski

irrelevant said:


> Thing is with her it's not sex with strange she loves. It's infatuation with emotions of attraction, excitement, being safe and loved, giving and receiving attention.


Riiiiight.

Explains boat guy perfectly, right?


----------



## GusPolinski

irrelevant said:


> That is what I am trying to untangle. *Where and when did it go wrong.* And is there a possibility to fix things.


Probably right around the time that first piece of wedding cake hit her lips.

LOL... just kidding.

It was well before that.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

irrelevant said:


> Thing is with her it's not sex with strange she loves. It's infatuation with emotions of attraction, excitement, being safe and loved, giving and receiving attention.


Do you actually believe she separates sex from all of the above?


----------



## VladDracul

irrelevant said:


> I need her to accept me as I am and our life as it is


Yep, and the frog needs wings so he doesn't bump his azz when he jumps. Good luck to you and the frog. I don't understand why your still complaining about what you need and she doesn't get it. Believe me, she knows and just doesn't give a sh-t. Why should she. You've demonstrated the guy in your story is going to be around to serve her, no matter what. Your like a person with a sh-tty job/boss that takes it because they believe it the only game in town and any change would be a major challenge. In your next post, try not to come off as a complete jackass. You've got some folks rooting for her.


----------



## irrelevant

@Gus: she actually hopes she could get it from any chosen guy, including the boat guy

@Broken: exactly, she doesn't separate that. So it's not just about sex, it's about all of that

@Vlad: so what scenario do you foresee?


----------



## TDSC60

Your wife has a broken moral compass. They can talk about going in one direction, but sooner or latter that busted compass will point them right back to the path of destruction. You don't want to be around when she finally walks off a cliff and hits rock bottom.


----------



## GusPolinski

TDSC60 said:


> Your wife has a broken moral compass. They can talk about going in one direction, but sooner or latter that busted compass will point them right back to the path of destruction. You don't want to be around when she finally walks off a cliff and hits rock bottom.


----------



## TDSC60

GusPolinski said:


>


It is correct 1 time out of 360. Sounds about right.


----------



## ConanHub

Nope.


----------



## badmemory

irrelevant said:


> Thing is with her it's not sex with strange she loves. It's infatuation with emotions of attraction, excitement, being safe and loved, giving and receiving attention.


Whether there is a physical or an emotional basis for her cheating; why should you give a flying f**k? At the end of the day the result is the same. She betrayed you.


----------



## harrybrown

When do you get a threesome with MFF?

she had hers, when do you get yours?

File for D. She signed the papers.

turn them in and let her find out for herself.

will she sign a post nup?

should have let her go with the boat guy.

they would have taken off and you would not be bothered again.


----------



## SunCMars

Rob_1 said:


> This has to be a made up tread. I do not believe it to be real. Some guy is jerking around to entice responses. You would have to be the most spineless, weakest cuckold, excuse of a doormat man for this OP to be in this situation with his suppose wife.


I truly hope so.


----------



## VladDracul

irrelevant said:


> @Vlad: so what scenario do you foresee?


She'll keep you dinging on string until one day she'' find another and newer stooge that she convinces she'll love him forever and forever will end for you and she'll be gone. The girls on the prowl and sniffing her pray. From the time you married her, you were her future ex husband.


----------



## bandit.45

I go away for a while and come back and this is what happens...

My god.

This thread is a stinking, slimy, filthy pile of rotten sh#t. In all my years on TAM I don't think I have ever come across a more piece of sh#t situation than the one you have gotten yourself into OP. And I say "yourself" because everything that has happened to you, from June when you first posted, until now, is your fault. Your fault. You are the first BH I have ever blamed for his own misery, but you are to blame, because you willingly and knowingly and with aforethought allow yourself to be humiliated and abused by your s-called wife at every turn and at every opportunity. 

You have no intention whatsoever of following the advice you have been given. I think you get off on the attention and sympathy. I think you love being a victim, because you control people that way. You come here and tell your sad stories and boo-hoo and get everyone here to feel sorry for you and you revel in it. In some way your damaged mind equates this with love and acceptance...something you are not getting from your wife. Well, youi are not getting any respect of love here. You are wasting everyone's time. 

Anyone who could think that taking a cheating, unrepentant, disgusting tramp of a wife and letting her pursue and fvck other men is a way of saving or improving the marriage is deranged. You are sick OP, and you need help: serious psychiatric help from a licensed psychologist or therapist who can help you pull yourself out of this delusional existence you have become locked into. 

I've said my piece and I won't say any more. I'm going to go take a shower now.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

bandit.45 said:


> I In all my years on TAM I don't think I have ever come across a more piece of sh#t situation than the one you have gotten yourself into OP. And I say "yourself" because everything that has happened to you, from June when you first posted, until now, is your fault. Your fault. You are the first BH I have ever blamed for his own misery, but you are to blame, because you willingly and knowingly and with aforethought allow yourself to be humiliated and abused by your s-called wife at every turn and at every opportunity.


I'm afraid I knew this is where this was headed right from the get-go. The title of the thread is "Wife at unease." But the wife is the cheater--who gives a **** if she's uneasy? Just the way OP was looking at this from the beginning told us all we needed to know. I never posted because I was confident my breath would be wasted. A few hundred posts later and nothing has happened to make me reconsider that assessment.


----------



## Steve1000

SunCMars said:


> I cannot post here.
> 
> Too, just too......


I never thought I'd see a case in which you were at a loss for words!


----------



## GusPolinski

VladDracul said:


> She'll keep you dinging on string until one day she'' find another and newer stooge that she convinces she'll love him forever and forever will end for you and she'll be gone. The girls on the prowl and sniffing her pray. From the time you married her, you were her future ex husband.


Your posts were a lot more entertaining back when you were all like, “Here’s the thing, Dawg...”

:rofl:

(And I agree, BTW.)


----------



## Steve1000

I think that most of us are not seeing that the OP gets some type of enjoyment out of this. I guess he has a need for drama in his daily life. They both are not healthy.


----------



## bandit.45

F u b a r


----------



## Rob_1

Guys: give it up! As I stated in this tread earlier: this has to be a troll.


----------



## thenub

You are the janitor. Your tongue is the cleaning supplies. She just banged some dude. The vajayjay needs cleaning, get to work like a good ****. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bianca Stella

thenub said:


> You are the janitor. Your tongue is the cleaning supplies. She just banged some dude. The vajayjay needs cleaning, get to work like a good ****.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 what's a ****?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Bianca Stella said:


> what's a ****?


You can find an explanation of that here.


----------



## bandit.45

Bianca Stella said:


> what's a ****?


Short for cuckold. For people who can't spell well.


----------



## irrelevant

Can anyone please advise/explain/link to thread on how to recover deleted whatsapp messages from a dead phone? I repeat, the phone is dead and out of use for a while, screen is completely dead but everything else might probably still be functional.


----------



## TDSC60

irrelevant said:


> Can anyone please advise/explain/link to thread on how to recover deleted whatsapp messages from a dead phone? I repeat, the phone is dead and out of use for a while, screen is completely dead but everything else might probably still be functional.


First step is to remove the battery entirely. Then after 15 minutes, replace the battery and charge the phone. Then see what happens.
Where's Gus when you need him?

Failing that, take the phone to a dealer and see if they can bring it back to life.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

irrelevant said:


> Can anyone please advise/explain/link to thread on how to recover deleted whatsapp messages from a dead phone? I repeat, the phone is dead and out of use for a while, screen is completely dead but everything else might probably still be functional.


Cell repair shop can quickly tell you whether issue is just dead screen or other.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Bianca Stella said:


> what's a ****?


'****' is shorthand slang for cuckold:

****·old
ˈkəkəld,ˈkəkōld/
nounarchaic
noun: cuckold; plural noun: cuckolds

1.
the husband of an adulteress, often regarded as an object of derision.

verb
verb: cuckold; 3rd person present: cuckolds; past tense: cuckolded; past participle: cuckolded; gerund or present participle: cuckolding

1.
(of a man) make (another man) a cuckold by having a sexual relationship with his wife.
(of a man's wife) make (her husband) a cuckold.


----------



## irrelevant

The phone is dead. Suppose trying to extract something from it's memory is in fact in the field of forensics?

Back to original topic, I have been reading through a lot of threads on here, and it seems that in vast majority of WW cases, the wives tend to avoid intimacy with their husbands as the affairs start rolling. In my case it was the exact opposite. I am fully aware that that drive is triggered by the affair, and also as one forum member well noted, some people never get enough attention and validation. So whilst most advices here in similar situations went "let her go", it is not applicable for me because this one is holding onto me as firm as it gets.

I already told her that if things work out for us, it is not that I can't go through something like this again, but that I don't want to go through it again.

So sort of I started feeling pressured to either let go of the marriage or let go of the affair, and I can't do neither.

And also I am troubled about what am I supposed to do about making our marriage better? Not that I think I am perfect, or even good enough, I just feel I already reached my maximum and don't see much space for improvement. She admits that nobody could make her happy. Well I agree, with the exception of her hormones. But she claims that she won't be giving in to that and that she is now fully aware that her place is with me and that there is nothing out there for her.

Just so confusing.


----------



## Malaise

First you said :

So sort of I started feeling pressured to either let go of the marriage or let go of the affair, and I can't do neither.

Then you said:

And also I am troubled about what am I supposed to do about making our marriage better?


Does anything jump out at you here?


----------



## turnera

Why not just say "I'm going to give the marriage a shot - until December 31. Then I'm going to make a decision to stay or go. That all rests on your shoulders."


----------



## irrelevant

turnera said:


> Why not just say "I'm going to give the marriage a shot - until December 31. Then I'm going to make a decision to stay or go. That all rests on your shoulders."


Because it doesn't. It all rests on my shoulders.

Yesterday she again flipped. After three months of thinking and combining we finally ordered the kitchen furniture. We were both equally involved in the process of choosing. We are on a budget and she continuously expressed dissatisfaction with the fact she had to accept some budget solutions, but said she understood that it is realistic. As the end result we will have a really nice kitchen, for a slightly above average price. But after the order was placed, she flipped and kept saying that it will be ugly, that the whole thing is sh*t because we can't buy nicer parts and that living and cooking in that kitchen will be miserable.

The whole evening spiraled into an argument which ended with me asking why she keeps doing this and why doesn't she even try since I am doing all I can and even after her adultery gave us the chance to make up. To that she said that it wasn't that I gave us the chance but that it was me running after her.

That really hit me in the face. I know she will once again say that she is sorry, that she says horrible things when she is angry and so on. But the fact is she is angry so often that these horrible things are not just words. And I am fully capable of understanding the situation. But I can't find the courage to give up on everything I set my life for, on maintaining a family for my daughters.

I don't need my wife to cook or clean. I do that stuff myself. It is also not that we both won't be able to find and have friends, sexual partners or new life partners. But it is about committment. I took it seriously. And have been giving all my time and efforts into making it work. There is just something so terribly wrong.


----------



## irrelevant

I am thinking of separating. If I leave the house, she will call me back saying she is sorry and she wants us to stay together. The moment I give in to her, the circle starts again. I know that only I can break that circle.

But also, if I leave the house, the kids will feel (and be) abandoned by their father. And I will also be separated from them. I am not saying that I am staying only for the kids, but I am terrified by the pain it would inflict on them and me not only in the short run. I am also certain that, if we hadn't any kids, she would have divorced me like a thousand times until now.

Sometimes I can imagine the two of us being happy together even when the kids are grown and gone, and we get along in many ways, and she says the same and that she doesn't want anything else. But I stopped believing it.

I know that splitting up the family is the only way to terminate this illness of a marriage. But it will hurt and I don't want more pain. I just want the pain to stop.


----------



## irrelevant

Maybe my whole perspective is deranged. Maybe I am manipulating and actually am the source of all (or most) bad in our marriage. She even said that I should have broken up with her a long time ago because I should have known that she deserved better than me. And that she feels tricked into a life beneath the level of what she believes she is entitled to.

Is it possible that I am so insane that I just think I am doing my best? Maybe I just think that I am doing things right? Maybe I do only care about myself and use my wife and kids to satisfy my sick emotional needs? Maybe she is right and she needs to be salvaged from this?


----------



## jewels465

Make her leave. Get a protective order. She hits you all the time. Set up childcare, and make her leave. File for divorce. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Satya

irrelevant said:


> I am thinking of separating. If I leave the house, she will call me back saying she is sorry and she wants us to stay together. The moment I give in to her, the circle starts again. I know that only I can break that circle.


So... DON'T give in. If she says she wants you to stay together, you say "no thanks."
And why do you have to leave? Shouldn't she be the one leaving?
Do not leave your house or she could say you abandoned the children.



irrelevant said:


> Sometimes I can imagine the two of us being happy together even when the kids are grown and gone, and we get along in many ways, and she says the same and that she doesn't want anything else. But I stopped believing it.


Good, you need to be living in reality.



irrelevant said:


> I know that splitting up the family is the only way to terminate this illness of a marriage. But it will hurt and I don't want more pain. I just want the pain to stop.


Unfortunately, nothing good ever came easy. The pain is going to be temporary and will take some time to overcome. It will dull over time. The best thing you can do is focus on the things you can control on a daily basis. Concentrate your efforts on self improvement and your children.


----------



## eric1

You speak to a lawyer about how/when you leave. Period


----------



## sokillme

I think maybe you should get some counseling to help give you the strength to brake out of this abusive relationship. It is clear you don't have the tools yet. But with help you can in the future. Right now you are like the abused women who can't seem to leave her man who is giving her black eyes. This is very clear to all of us. You are not healthy right now, you are just to beaten down to see it. You need to get clinical help to get enough strength to leave. Please do that for you kids sake. Your relationship dynamic is not good for them.


----------



## irrelevant

Please, urgent help needed.

Dr Fone is showing only "undeleted" messages. I took her phone and deleted some of my messages, and Dr Fone doesn't read them (those deleted messages), just reads ones which are left. What can I do?


----------



## badmemory

irrelevant said:


> There is just something so terribly wrong.


Lol. Ya, think? 19 pages of advice telling you what's wrong and how to fix it and you just now happen to acknowledge this?

You know, your "story" reads like one of those artsy, independent European films with subtitles; that no one can understand. You pay no attention to the advice, ignore the 2x4's; yet you keep posting. 

If your story is real, then I sincerely and truly hope you get some professional counseling. Because this movie is just too hard to follow for most of us.


----------



## eric1

If Dr Fone is it working there are a few alternatives. There is a remote chance she poisoned the well and filled up her phone as a way to force those messages to be deleted forever


----------



## irrelevant

@eric, no chance for that, I checked by deleting some calls and messages myself, and dr fone didnt find those later on.


----------



## eric1

Try a different app then. Dr Fone isn’t perfect


----------



## irrelevant

Hi all, I have been lurking around the forum constantly so I decided to log in for an update. I see many of you do magnificent work around here and as time goes by I start to appreciate this board more and more.

As for my story, in short, marriage is still on. There are ups and downs, there are emotional outbursts, but life has continued to improve in all fields. We moved into a new apartment (first time as owners), our careers are doing well, and kids are still being the greatest thing ever in this world.

As for two of us, old affair never resurrected, new ones haven't occured, we had some experimenting last fall in the nonmonogamy field, but decided unanimously that it's not fulfilling for either one of us. 3 months after last activities we did a complete STD screening and we came out clear. Intimacy is still very intense, I would dare to say beyond pornstar sex, all barriers of shame between us or inside us broke and we take care of each other within that.

Even though my W still has verbal episodes of pride or spite (has such personality), she doesn't flaunt the affair or make excuses for it. She acts remorseful and commited to marriage reconciliation. She refers to her affair as a biggest mistake of her life. She gives me a lot of attention, she gives me transparency (even though I see that it doesn't guarantee anything by itself), and even though trust is not at 100% (if ever should be), I see 100% of her energy invested into our marriage and family. I have come to the point of assesing the risk of her being unfaithful to me no bigger than any random potential partner being unfaithful to me. From this point on I am starting to consider the future of our marriage without regard to her affair.

Nevertheless, some downsides remain. My self-esteem is still suffering, I still fight with feelings of inadequacy as a husband and a man. The emotional balance still hasn't returned, she asks me all so often if I still loved her and I refuse to give her reassurance on that. I am fully aware that it could backfire but it is how things are at the moment.

Many of posters here advocated divorce, and even though I don't regret choosing the ongoing reconciliation, I must admit to them that it is questionable whether the efforts are (or will be) worth it. Respect to all of you.


----------



## Satya

irrelevant said:


> Many of posters here advocated divorce, and even though I don't regret choosing the ongoing reconciliation, I must admit to them that it is questionable whether the efforts are (or will be) worth it. Respect to all of you.


Only time and her consistent remorse and effort will tell.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

irrelevant said:


> Hi all, I have been lurking around the forum constantly so I decided to log in for an update. I see many of you do magnificent work around here and as time goes by I start to appreciate this board more and more.
> 
> As for my story, in short, marriage is still on. There are ups and downs, there are emotional outbursts, but life has continued to improve in all fields. We moved into a new apartment (first time as owners), our careers are doing well, and kids are still being the greatest thing ever in this world.
> 
> As for two of us, old affair never resurrected, new ones haven't occured, we had some experimenting last fall in the nonmonogamy field, but decided unanimously that it's not fulfilling for either one of us. 3 months after last activities we did a complete STD screening and we came out clear. Intimacy is still very intense, I would dare to say beyond pornstar sex, all barriers of shame between us or inside us broke and we take care of each other within that.
> 
> Even though my W still has verbal episodes of pride or spite (has such personality), she doesn't flaunt the affair or make excuses for it. She acts remorseful and commited to marriage reconciliation. She refers to her affair as a biggest mistake of her life. She gives me a lot of attention, she gives me transparency (even though I see that it doesn't guarantee anything by itself), and even though trust is not at 100% (if ever should be), I see 100% of her energy invested into our marriage and family. I have come to the point of assesing the risk of her being unfaithful to me no bigger than any random potential partner being unfaithful to me. From this point on I am starting to consider the future of our marriage without regard to her affair.
> 
> Nevertheless, some downsides remain. My self-esteem is still suffering, I still fight with feelings of inadequacy as a husband and a man. The emotional balance still hasn't returned, she asks me all so often if I still loved her and I refuse to give her reassurance on that. I am fully aware that it could backfire but it is how things are at the moment.
> 
> Many of posters here advocated divorce, and even though I don't regret choosing the ongoing reconciliation, I must admit to them that it is questionable whether the efforts are (or will be) worth it. Respect to all of you.


Are you currently in counseling?


----------



## Chaparral

Since you haven’t no mentioned it, I assume you haven’t downloaded the MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER from Amazon. You have hung on to a marriage at the expense of your self esteem and you have forgotten how to be a man. This has further cost you your wife’s respect. Another thing is you do not know how to argue with your wife from a husbands point of view.
You have tree a lot of foolish things. I can’t imagine how you could offer to let your wife go try out other man and then she would have any respect for you. You simply don’t display any knowledge of human nature. Not long ago, men killed other men for insulting their wives much less what they have done to your wife. Did you grow up without a father or father figure. 

A husband’s number one priority is the safety of his family. Have you heard of c*ck blocking in your country? You can’t do that living away from home. Leaving home to work is an invitation to affairs at home.

You know nothing John Snow.


----------



## irrelevant

@stillfightingforus

I waited for her to initiate counseling. She didn't. 3 months ago I pressed her and told her she should show initiative and that some help with communicating could be supportive to us. She set up a meeting with the priest who married us (we haven't seen him since the wedding). All he spoke about was forgiving, moving on and restoring love. It was very touching to talk to him as he is a very nice person, and it evoked a lot of memories, but it didn't resolve our issues. 

Recently my wife confided about the affair in a married friend (woman) of hers (let's call her Dolly - friends from childhood). Dolly recommended a lady counselor who allegedly helped them very much. From my W stories (year by year by year) I know for a fact Dolly and (let's call him Bobby, I never actually met him) Bobby had their share of **** throughout marriage from both sides. They fought a lot. So they go into counseling and counselor takes Dolly's side and tells Bobby he must be more supportive. So now Dolly says all is better since they are only arguing at the counselor's office, and at home they are ok. Bobby has no clue Dolly was cheating on him multiple times (or Dolly has no clue that Bobby has clue but keeps quiet, anyway, Dolly confessed affairs to my W) and Bobby also has a job where he meets a lot of women (showbusiness) and is often away from home (we don't know what Bobby does there but we know that he cheated his LTR ex girlfriend with Dolly - do tell about surprise) and no infidelities are disclosed between the two or to the counselor. So Bobby is pissed at the counselor for taking Dolly's side but he keeps his mouth shut at home, they are not arguing any more and Dolly is looking forward to a better future. I mean, she is not a cheating wife anymore like she was before having 3 kids and 50 pounds extra. Now she is much more aware of her love for her husband but just needed some help from counseling to help him understand how good a marriage they have.

So, as you can assume... we went to that counselor. My W tells problems started by her having an affair. Counselor nods her head. So I listen to all that **** about stressful life and how some people are wired to have multiple partners and how affairs come from unfulfilled needs and how people have to decide themselves on how to move on. So I said sure, this is not new to me since my W also had an EA 5 yrs ago. Then the counselor explained to me the difference between adultery and infidelity. And also about unfulfilled needs, deciding how to move on etc... I won't go into more detail, you get the picture. I was a bit disappointed for not getting a cookie after the session for being such a good boy, but I hope to deserve it next time. Second session still stands unappointed.


----------



## irrelevant

Chaparral said:


> ...I assume you haven’t downloaded the MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER...
> ... your wife’s respect...
> ...Leaving home to work is an invitation to affairs at home...


Haven't downloaded the book. She started showing more respect but keeps struggling with her own issues. I am not away for work anymore, now I work locally and am away perhaps 3-4 nights a month.


----------



## Windwalker

irrelevant said:


> I was a bit disappointed for not getting a cookie after the session for being such a good boy, but I hope to deserve it next time. Second session still stands unappointed.


I generally try not to say something unless it's useful.

Are you ****ing serious with that statement?
What in the actual ****?


----------



## Lostinthought61

Irrelvant....here is how i would address the counselor since she is trying to explaining to side with your wife...if that is the case, then you apologized you had it all wrong, and that you now understand and thank her for the hall pass you were just granted by her...and then see what she says. You can't fix stupid.


----------



## Chaparral

Windwalker said:


> I generally try not to say something unless it's useful.
> 
> Are you ****ing serious with that statement?
> What in the actual ****?


Lol, I’m certain that was sarcasm!


----------



## Windwalker

Chaparral said:


> Lol, I’m certain that was sarcasm!


With some of these stories and some of these guys reactions, there are times when you just have to ask the question.


----------



## bandit.45

So what was the experiment in non-monogamy? Swinging? Open marriage? Hotwife? What?


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> So what was the experiment in non-monogamy? Swinging? Open marriage? Hotwife? What?


MMF.

Hot, right?

:rofl:


----------



## MattMatt

Windwalker said:


> I generally try not to say something unless it's useful.
> 
> Are you ****ing serious with that statement?
> What in the actual ****?


He was making a joke, there. Lighten up a bit! 

And @irrelevant please tell us what the counsellor had to say on the difference between adultery and infidelity?


----------



## irrelevant

It was sarcasm. I have to keep my spirit alive.

Anyway, I won't be wasting my time on that counselor any more. No need to fix stupid.

I didn't write it down but: adultery is a full PA while other c*r*a*p is "just" infidelity.

Experiments were mmf and swinging.


----------



## bandit.45

Yeah that crap never works out in the end. Usually makes things worse.


----------



## skerzoid

Europeans are weird.


----------



## Jasel

Had to skip everything after reading the first 3 pages. ****ing cringe worthy. This page makes me think I didn't miss much.


----------



## SomeLurker

I lurk these forums, but man I this made me register.

Irrelevant ,you are giving off a whole lot of codependent signs to me. I'd look into asking an actual medical professional to see if you have a lot of these traits and how to cope with them.

You are twisting yourself into some depraved things that you do not want to do, just to please her. You also do a lot of rationalizing. At some point, your true feelings on the matter will come to surface. The longer this continues the worse that explosion will be for everyone involved.

This reminds me a bit of Jake Rapp who's story is incredibly messed up.

It appears your wife is somewhere in the Cluster B personality disorders. People like that tend to seek out people like you, they know they can run all over them.

You have mentioned several times that she gets very angry and has assaulted you, that she says she hopes you drop dead. This is not acceptable behavior. Period.

She had you in a MMF three months after she said that would not happen, and talked about how it was what she had wanted. See the pattern here. She says she does not want A, you accept. She then says she want A and you give it to her. She knows you will cave on anything because you are codependent.

I noticed that you did not have anything positive to say about this and your swinging event you did not want to participate. Everything is about feeding her desires at your expense. She said you were draining the life out of her, she is doing that to you. 

Remember, all of this is bleeding over into your children's lives. They will learn that this is how a wife treats her husband and how a husband should respond in kind to it. 

That is what bothers me the most about all of this, the terrible environment your innocent children are being subjected to. They need at least one stable parent. Do you want them doing this to their husbands? The fact that you are on this forum says otherwise.

It may help to imagine what you would tell a son of yours if his wife was doing the same to him.

Please get yourself some help from family/friends you can trust and a good councilor.


----------

