# Update on Aftermath of Wife's Online Affair



## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Hey all, some of you may recall my situation which was posted in a thread by me: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52350-wifes-online-affair.html and my wife in her own seperate one: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52381-i-had-online-affair.html. It seemed like we were doing really well with reconciling. I had done some self examanation and talked at length with my pastor and his wife, and our marriage counsellor individually about some of the things I may have done on my end to damage my relationship and assist in driving my wife to try and escape into a fantasy MMOG world for 7 months, which only ended when I found out that she was having an affair with a married man in her game for a month or so. 

I had comitted to trying to have a clean slate and do everything I can to improve our marriage. She has allowed me to have continued access to her email and other accounts, and had claimed to have deleted all of her accounts in the game, and was insistent she was maintaining NC with OM. His wife, whom she was also friends with in the game had even written her and asked that she not contact her husband again, which my wife assured her she wouldn't.

Well jump forward a few weeks...my wife was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and had to have her thyroid removed yesterday. I waited in the hospital with her or was by her side for 8 hours before I was able to bring her home and get her set up here. While she had gone to sleep in the evening, for some reason I was compelled to do some digging. I've been having nightmares about there being secret email accounts she's been using to talk to men. Also from reading the horror stories here, it started to dawn on me that it may be a bit unusual that she was just able to drop all contact with him like that.

Well, after some thorough searching online (she's turned me into a pro at it), I managed to uncover another account she had in her game. I also figured out how to log into it, and what do I find, but a series of messages from the OM to her, leading up to just a day or two ago. I thought at first he had just been firing off unresponded messages to her for a couple weeks, but then I noticed she had actually replied to a couple of them, just about 4 days ago now, telling him she thought of him often, and only dared to log in rarely, and how she missed chatting with him, but looked forward to the next time, etc.

I pretty much relived the initial shock I had when first discovering the affair all over again. I know from researching it so thoroughly now that she is clearly still in the "fog" of her relationship with him, and that it clearly ran a lot deeper than she pretended. She confessed that on multiple occasions they had even told one another they loved each other. I confronted the guy about it and wrote his wife again to tell her of my discovery about the next breach of trust. He tried to spin it into him just trying to maintain a "friendship" with her and a bunch of other misleading stuff. I pretty much just pushed through it with the truth and he finally seemed to wake up a little bit and start apologizing. He agreed he'd stop trying to contact her, though I'm sure that was BS too.

I tried to hit my wife with the reality of what we'll need to start considering as we separted, and she seemed to start waking up to the impact of what that will be like. But...I told her that's what would happen if she ever talks to him again. I guess I felt compelled to give it another shot because I've read so often around here how people will backslide trying to put an affair behind them. That and she's sick, and I of course still feel sympathy for her. She's said several times how stupid she was to do that. I don't know if she really believes it or what now, but I guess I just have to hope she's really ready to save this thing before it's too late. I feel like I've done everything I'm capable of to salvage it by myself at this point.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

I think your last sentence should give you a clue on your next course of action


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

So no consequences for this second betrayal? Because you want the marriage to work and she is ill she is getting a free pass?

Please don't shoot the messenger here because I certainly feel your pain and hope things work for you, but really. What lesson has she learned which would suggest to you that she will never do this again?

You have been rug sweeping. Twice. I remember your first thread. You caved. You are caving again.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Still Knight, there's another poster who's WW also posted here, pretended to be remorseful, but turned out she was still cheating. His name is *dingerdad* and his wife is *Allybabe_1*8. Allybabe lied to dingerdad and the forum. It seems your wife, Still Lady, did the same. She only posted this less than a month ago from her thread:



Still Lady said:


> I have deleted my accounts with the game, never to return.
> 
> I am currently complying with my husband's requests. In fact, as I was emailing my husband, a male friend IMd me. I told my husband immediately and then told the friend I could never speak to him again and goodbye.
> 
> ...


She established a secret account, broke NC and restarted the EA. What consequences are you going to show her? You cannot sweep this under the rug.

This is why I'm *NOT* so quick to believe when WSs post here claiming they're remorseful and want to save the marriage and pretending to be transparent.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> So no consequences for this second betrayal? Because you want the marriage to work and she is ill she is getting a free pass?
> 
> Please don't shoot the messenger here because I certainly feel your pain and hope things work for you, but really. What lesson has she learned which would suggest to you that she will never do this again?
> 
> You have been rug sweeping. Twice. I remember your first thread. You caved. You are caving again.


This....be strong! 








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

And even in her own thread, she's misled. 

But if you're okay with her lies and affairs (from your actions you seem to be) then I dont see why her affairs are a problem.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

I realize she's sick, but, dude. You have to put yourself first. You come number one.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Still Knight, there's another poster who's WW also posted here, pretended to be remorseful, but turned out she was still cheating. His name is *dingerdad* and his wife is *Allybabe_1*8. Allybabe lied to dingerdad and the forum. It seems your wife, Still Lady, did the same. She only posted this less than a month ago from her thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:iagree:

You are not alone there.

Then, as I recall, there was a chance that one of them was leaving the marital home unless she could keep in contact with one of her online "friends", and it was at that point that the OP "caved".

So here we are. She went underground. Next up, he monitors all of her on-line activity. She then buys a burner phone and, without using a computer at all, maintains contact with the OM. If the OP finds the burner phone, she acts contrite for a bit, then buys another. This is what happens when one rug sweeps. It escalates.

The issue is never resolved by rug sweeping.


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## WalkingInLight (Aug 14, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> ...I guess I felt compelled to give it another shot because I've read so often around here how people will backslide trying to put an affair behind them...


Yes, that is correct. It is called "fishing" and is entirely common for a very good reason. 

During your wife's A, her brain laid down pathways that would send trigger chemicals to her body when she engaged in affair behavior. It's like alcoholics anticipating their first drink. That sort of pattern forming activity develops into addictive behavior. It takes time to come clean from it. If you are interested in learning more, you might like to read the book, “Who Switched Off My Brain?” I highly recommend it.

If your W has only been out of the A for a few months, expecting her to have broken her addictive behavior by now is overreaching.

God can, and does, heal people of addictions almost instantly so that the cravings are 100% gone. But friend, there are still thousands upon thousands who have to go through withdrawal and do the hard work needed to come out of it. God is seeking character… and that is better built from the ground up.

You've taken a great step in letting your W know where you stand. Now it's up to you to trust but check. You won't like to hear this, but you'll also need to do this at the 8 month and 14 month mark. And make sure she knows you will be checking on her regularly.

I'd like to recommend a Christian based program to you that, based on your comments about seeking support from your pastor, may be something that you and your wife find helpful. It is called Celebrate Recovery and is for anyone with hurts, habits, and hang-ups. It is run at thousands of churches around the world and has a proven track record.

It has helped both my wife and I work through our issues.

Best of luck.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Let me guess, she's not having sex with you either.... Because she's remaining faithful to her one true love.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

WalkingInLight said:


> Yes, that is correct. It is called "fishing" and is entirely common for a very good reason.
> 
> During your wife's A, her brain laid down pathways that would send trigger chemicals to her body when she engaged in affair behavior. It's like alcoholics anticipating their first drink. That sort of pattern forming activity develops into addictive behavior. It takes time to come clean from it. If you are interested in learning more, you might like to read the book, “Who Switched Off My Brain?” I highly recommend it.
> 
> ...


In other words, rugsweep in the name of god. 

Also insinuating trust when it was broken the second time?

What trash that post was

Anyways Still Knight, You need to let her know this will not be tolerated. 

I saw your initial post, everyone told you that if you caved and rugsweeped she'd start it up again, and lo behold, look what happened.

Is this EA even a problem for you? Because I don't think you really care. As long as your content to rugsweep with no consequences for her shes gonna keep doing it, with you making excuses for her all the way.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...shame on me.

And the 3rd, 4th times she continues to contact him because there probably will be those...will you continue to find excuses and justifications for her behavior? 

Let her leave if she doesn't want you but don't let her continue to play you like a fool.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

OK so she is recovering from thyroid removal---that doesn't mean you can't become some what stand offish---give her, her medical care, and whatever has to be done to heal her, but just be very cold in your demeanor

When she wants to know why you are acting as you are---give her printed copies of her underground account messages---and tell her when she has healed up, you are thru with this mge---tell her you will not be made a fool of one more minute---tell her when she has healed up, she can look for an apartment, since SHE DOESN'T LOVE YOU, NOR DOES SHE WANNA BE WITH YOU-------say your piece, and walk out, and do not discuss it with her again, even if she brings it up again, and again

Give her a taste of what just may be her future----this if nothing else hopefully will finally wake her up

Do not be mr nice--guy, and do not be lovey--dovey---just very coldly take care of her, and do only the minimum with her emotionally---let her think about where her future is really going, if you stand firm on what you are telling her.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

I am hearing what you all are trying to point out, but it's just not that easy I guess. We have children and the thought of having to live separate from them kills me. Plus call me a fool, but I do believe she's sincerely sorry for a lot of this, but is just still stuck in the fog of the situation. I think she just screwed up, got pulled back in by the emotions she had developed for him, read the long stream of messages he had sent her and caved into responding, letting him know that she's still thinking of him. I'm NOT accepting that though. I made it very clear to her that the next time she contacts him will be the last. Whether or not she believes me is up to her, but I will know at that point that I tried everything in my power to stop it and save this family a lot of pain and misery. Try to remember I'm human here guys and this mess is tough to navigate.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

At this point she should be giving up use of computers if she wants to make the marriage work. She obviously finds it too much of a temptation to ignore because she believes she can do it secretly.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

WalkingInLight said:


> Yes, that is correct. It is called "fishing" and is entirely common for a very good reason.
> 
> During your wife's A, her brain laid down pathways that would send trigger chemicals to her body when she engaged in affair behavior. It's like alcoholics anticipating their first drink. That sort of pattern forming activity develops into addictive behavior. It takes time to come clean from it. If you are interested in learning more, you might like to read the book, “Who Switched Off My Brain?” I highly recommend it.
> 
> ...


Thanks WalkingInLight for the spiritual advice. I've read up a lot in the last couple weeks about what happens when one engages in an affair, how it almost becomes addictive and there's no doubt that's where she's at. I thought she had actually "kicked" it, but I guess she couldn't help but go back for one more round of contact. It's actually only been a few weeks since D day. 

She doesn't always have the best judgement or think before she does things and I think that's how it happened. I also think they both are so out of it, they believe they just want to stay in touch out of friendship, but they only knew each other a month and half of that was the affair. There is no friendship and it would have rapidly escalated back into all the other stuff. I pointed that out to the OM pretty directly and he seemed to accept it, not that that means much as he's proven he doesn't exactly have much concern for honor.

I will definitely look into the book and program you mentioned.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I'm sorry Still Knight, but I agree with most on here that you are about to sweep this under the rug. I would argue that you are not only hurting yourself but you are also hurting your kids. The kids deserve to live in a home that is happy and stable, and the worst scenario is for their parents to stay together "for the sake of the children". Children are young and naive, but they are not stupid. They have eyes, ears and a functioning brain to realize that something is not right. Or worse, your children will see your lukewarm marriage of rug sweeping, internalize these observations and then believe that this is how married life should be. I wouldn't put my kids through that. Better to have one parent that can completely focus on them in a happy home than 2 parents that are uneasy with each other and projecting that uneasy feeling onto the kids.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> At this point she should be giving up use of computers if she wants to make the marriage work. She obviously finds it too much of a temptation to ignore because she believes she can do it secretly.


I'm inclined to agree, but then I would be accused by everyone including her of being unreasonable and controlling. That was actually the advice of my pastor, though I'm going to guess our MC would think that was pointless. How do you get around everyone accusing you of being nuts and overbearing?


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

A bunch of folks 'round these parts get hung up on the alpha and beta stuff. :That's too Beta! Be more Alpha! Take charge! Women don't respect the weak! Arrrgggggh! etc."

I don't know how much I believe in that. All I can tell you is this; fog or no fog, it's VERY clear that she doesn't respect you AT ALL.


Is that fair to you? Is that a relationship you want to proceed in?


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## Awe (Aug 16, 2012)

My wife had thyroid cancer a couple years ago, so I have some first hand experience dealing with it.

When/If she has her RAI (Radioactive Iodine), they're either going to give her thyrogen, or they're going to take her off her medication for a while.

If they take her off her medication, she's more than likely going to get a little 'crazy'. 

My wife (she had 2 rounds of RAI, the first she had thyrogen the second she had to go off her medication) got mean when she went off her medication. I mean down right evil. I took time off work to take care of our kids while she slept (tired due to lack of medication). She either yelled at me or was a crying blubbery mess any time she got out of bed. 

We have always had an awesome relationship and we almost never fight. 

But going through those 5(ish) weeks of hell almost made me leave her. Everything I did during that time was wrong in her opinion. She yelled at me in front of family and friends, she called me names, and then there were times where she would just cry and apologize for it all (the evilness happened more often). It was a roller coaster. 

She is back to normal now and our relationship is back to great, but I would not put myself through that again. I told her that if she had to go without her medication for a period of time like that again, she better be nice to me or I was gone. Sure enough she had to go off her medication for 6 weeks for a scan, but her attitude was normal this time, just a lot more tired than normal.

She is part of a thyroid cancer support group and a number of members have had their spouses leave them not long after the cancer hits.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that you're probably going to go through a bunch of crap due to her thyroid cancer. During this time, your wife is probably going to be pretty unstable. 

If you decide that you want to stay with your wife, make sure you are prepared for this. I would not be suprised if she breaks NC again during this time.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'm sorry Still Knight, but I agree with most on here that you are about to sweep this under the rug. I would argue that you are not only hurting yourself but you are also hurting your kids. The kids deserve to live in a home that is happy and stable, and the worst scenario is for their parents to stay together "for the sake of the children". Children are young and naive, but they are not stupid. They have eyes, ears and a functioning brain to realize that something is not right. Or worse, your children will see your lukewarm marriage of rug sweeping, internalize these observations and then believe that this is how married life should be. I wouldn't put my kids through that. Better to have one parent that can completely focus on them in a happy home than 2 parents that are uneasy with each other and projecting that uneasy feeling onto the kids.


I agree, but really...we had been getting along better than we had in a long time over the course of the last two weeks or so. Since she stopped playing that game constantly, it feels like I actually have her back around as a partner again. It's made me realize how absent she was before. We've been spending way more time together, going for walks together, and just generally hanging out way more rebuilding the connection. This just set everything back.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

But she was acting, brother. It seemed better, because she was FAKING. She was still unremorseful and still incontact witht the guy while you thought stuff was getting better. She was giving you just enough to make you feel like stuff was fine. You may have been working on reconnecting; she was working on going deeper underground.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Awe said:


> My wife had thyroid cancer a couple years ago, so I have some first hand experience dealing with it.
> 
> When/If she has her RAI (Radioactive Iodine), they're either going to give her thyrogen, or they're going to take her off her medication for a while.
> 
> ...


That's very insightful Awe. I don't think it's a coincidence the affair started up shortly after she found out that she was going to have at least have half her thryroid removed (before the cancer diagnosis). Plus my in-laws pretty much all moved last month and I know that contributed to driving her further into trying to totally escape reality. I really don't think I'm rug sweeping in pointing out this stuff...people do crazy s*** when faced with a lot of challenges.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Unsure in Seattle said:


> But she was acting, brother. It seemed better, because she was FAKING. She was still unremorseful and still incontact witht the guy while you thought stuff was getting better. She was giving you just enough to make you feel like stuff was fine. You may have been working on reconnecting; she was working on going deeper underground.


But it seems like it was only a couple of times she contacted him. One week after D-Day, in which she claims she just told him it was over and what they had done wasn't worth it. Then just a few days ago to...I don't know, tell him she was thinking about him and missed their chats.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Shes fooling him, No contact means no contact. 

My Bro used to have an alcohol problem. He kicked it, but he still has to drive by a bar every day to get to work.

A problem? Nope he just tunes it out and has been sober 8+ years. 

So saying your wife was 'coaxed into responding' to the other guy is just one of your many excuses for her. 

On seattle's post. 

A woman can like a sensitive or empathetic man, but real women aren't attracted to weak men who don't respect themselves.

If you don't respect yourself, why on earth should she respect you?

You're sitting here rattling off bullsh!t excuses for her one after the other and this is the 2nd this has happened. 

Whatever you may have done the first time clearly didn't succeed if your back here so you need to switch it up.

Also do you realize the severity of this EA?

Your wife has been to this forum so she knows an EA can wreck a marriage, and guess what she did it anyway again. Eventhough she could have talked to you or even come here and talked about it on TAM, she still did it while knowing how damaging it is. 

She may give you some crocodile tears and act a bit contrite but she clearly doesn't respect you and your wishes.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Again, is she still being faithful to him?


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Again, is she still being faithful to him?


If you're referencing your earlier question, no. We actually reconnected a lot
physically too in the last couple of weeks and had some good times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WalkingInLight (Aug 14, 2012)

Kasler said:


> In other words, rugsweep in the name of god.
> 
> Also insinuating trust when it was broken the second time?
> 
> What trash that post was.


Rugsweeping is denial. I believe you must have missed the part where the OP told her that this is his final warning to her. That's not rugsweeping.

Given that "Who switched off my brain" is a well researched and scientifically based book, I' think I'm going to stick with the good Dr's explanations on how brain chemistry functions.

There is also in the newbies section some very well written posts on the same topic. You may want to consider checking them out.

I don't know anything about your personal situation - but you seem intent to get the poster to leave his wife. Perhaps R was not on the cards for you if you had/have been cheated on?

I applaud the fact that he is willing to make the toughest choice of all, to forgive and work on reconciliation. Infidelity can be recovered from.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Still Knight said:


> I'm inclined to agree, but then I would be accused by everyone including her of being unreasonable and controlling. That was actually the advice of my pastor, though I'm going to guess our MC would think that was pointless. How do you get around everyone accusing you of being nuts and overbearing?


It would be controlling and overbearing if she hadn't the affair and hadn't broken NC.

Now it's a consequence of lost trust.

If she was a drunk would you be keeping booze in the house o she could prove she wasn't drinking anymore?


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## WalkingInLight (Aug 14, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> It would be controlling and overbearing if she hadn't the affair and hadn't broken NC.
> 
> Now it's a consequence of lost trust.
> 
> If she was a drunk would you be keeping booze in the house o she could prove she wasn't drinking anymore?


Shaggy has a point here. Controlling behavior is different from making a reasonable request based on lost trust. If your wife is willing to reconcile, she should be ready to make some sacrifices for the marriage.

Since you said it's only been a few days since D day, can I encourage you to read this post from Pit http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21172-never-say-never.html?. I think he does a fairly good job of explaining the brain and the affair's effect on it.

FYI - my wife didn't come out of the fog until about 6 months after D Day. Keep your chin up - you're doing great!


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Still Knight said:


> If you're referencing your earlier question, no. We actually reconnected a lot
> physically too in the last couple of weeks and had some good times.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What part of No Contact don't you understand? If she's in contact in any way with the OM, she's being unfaithful to you. Some WW never get over an EA, some do slowly, and some do quickly. The fact that she continued to lie to you, then she came to this forum and lied to everyone here, is a very good indication that this is a very deep EA. 

It's only been a few weeks and she's already broken NC a few times now. It will probably go deeper underground now since she knows what you're monitoring. Did you ever expose the A to anyone? It's time for some consequences.

Because it looks like you're minimizing this quite a bit, saying it was only a few times and the last time was a few days ago. If you can't stick to your boundaries and enforce them, then this is going to drag out and she will continue the EA through other means, probably going PA if possible. 

Yeah, we know it's difficult. We've all been there, done that, so don't think we don't know what you're going thru. But its time to enforce consequences, like a little more exposure. If you're afraid of being called controlling, then you're already setting yourself up for failure.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Still Knight said:


> I'm inclined to agree, but then I would be accused by everyone including her of being unreasonable and controlling. That was actually the advice of my pastor, though I'm going to guess our MC would think that was pointless. How do you get around everyone accusing you of being nuts and overbearing?


This just shows what a liar she is. She was posting here in this forum about how she wants to be completely transparent to you. Whenever a cheater accuses the BS of being controlling means they are upset that their BS is making it difficult to have their affair.

A truly remorseful wayward spouse welcomes the scrutiny and transparency because they want to rebuild trust with their betrayed spouse.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Shaggy said:


> It would be controlling and overbearing if she hadn't the affair and hadn't broken NC.
> 
> Now it's a consequence of lost trust.
> 
> If she was a drunk would you be keeping booze in the house o she could prove she wasn't drinking anymore?


I can clarify this, I think. 

It is *a consequence* if you tell her that you are not willing to have a spouse who gives you any less than 100% of her affection and loyalty. Indicate that due to her giving some of her affection and loyalty to the OM on the computer in the game, it seems to you she is not able to handle the temptations of any computer access, and thus as her spouse you REQUEST (request means that she is free to say "no") that she volunteer to have absolutely NO computer access. She is free to say she will--for the sake of the marriage--or she won't. In this scenario you are controlling YOU and what you do and what you decide. If she won't give up computer access, you are free to make decisions about your own life and the kids' lives in order to protect "The Family Unit" from your spouse. 

It is *controlling* if you tell her what she can and can not do. No matter how you manipulate it, snoop, limit her, and restrict her...if she wants to cheat she will find a way. So if you tell her "You can not have access to the computer!!" then all you are doing is being her boss and forcing her to do things she does not want to do. She is an adult woman and you are telling her what she can and can not do as if you were her father, not her husband. Sooooo.... In this scenario you are controlling HER and what SHE does and making up her mind for her. 


In order to NOT be controlling, you give her the freedom to make the choice herself, and if she chooses to relinquish the computer, YOU can make whatever choice you believe is wise. If she chooses to NOT give up the computer, then you make whatever choice you believe is wise (considering she is saying that the computer and 'chatting in the game' are more valuable than the marriage).


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Still Knight said:


> I'm inclined to agree, but then I would be accused by everyone including her of being unreasonable and controlling. That was actually the advice of my pastor, though I'm going to guess our MC would think that was pointless. How do you get around everyone accusing you of being nuts and overbearing?


Why are you so hung up what other people think of you? You are fighting for your marriage and your family - tell them to take a hike if they don't like how you go about doing that. Trying to please everyone is just not gonna happen, so stop trying. You are constantly worrying about what people might think, how they might not agree with what you do. This is your life, not their's. 

I would have taken her computer and thrown it off the tallest building I could find. Anyone who thought it was "controlling or unreasonable" would be welcome to try and catch it before it hit the ground.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Still I remember you and your Wife very well. Still knight and still Lady glad to see your back. 
Look IMO having been involved in both conversations. I am sure you wife is still in the A. 
All of her posts were attempts at justification. 
I hate to say it but it is time to up the ante. Your wife may feel sorry but she is not sorry enough to sever all ties. NC means more than just not responding. IT means deleting anything from him before it is read, telling you about it, and then not responding.
She hid this from you and this was all before the cancer. The secret account existed before the cancer and was probably a designed fall back plan. 
She still thinks of him often. 

and you then tell me she is regretful. Booo freakin HOOOOOO
she is crying with one and the other is likely waiting for you to turn around so she can check and see what her true love is sending her. I mean think about it even though I was constantly trapped being watched I still managed to talk to him. 
Which to her makes him that much more precious. 
Enforce the no contact and follow through or you will have a dday 3,4,5.... and then she's gone with half your money running to the OM. Just to be dumped and leaving you crying at the doorstep.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Bottom line- are her phantom internet friends and her fantasy boyfriend going to be there for her in her time of need? NO. "Oh no ur sick "

She desperately needs to realize that you are there, in her REAL LIFE, and she's pushing you away (not the other way around). She needs to wake the hell up.


I had to tell my SO- "Life is not a movie. Your selfish BS is effecting me in REAL LIFE. You can daydream all you want, but it's not helping solve anything.. What you have with (OM) is MAKE BELIEVE."


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

This thread is a warning to all those whose spouses were involved in an EA. They can talk the talk (even on here) but ALWAYS verify...... and never rug sweep.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I don't know the back story here so will only say that I am sorry she couldn't honor NC with OM.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

This thread is a horrible trigger for me. Lots of whistling in the dark.

Still Knight, have you ever taken a look at the very well-written book, Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass? She was a nationally-recognized researcher into infidelity. In my signature is a link to google books excerpts of her book, including the table of contents.

I think what you have not fully internalized is how incredibly compulsive (i.e. very bad, hard-to-break habit) an escapist fantasy can be. Even though you KNOW she broke No Contact--which many a betrayed spouse entirely misses. I think that is what we are finding so baffling. It's as if you were handed, on a silver platter, the essence of her addiction, but you choose to deliberately ignore it.

I wasn't like you--I didn't have the resource of TAM by my side after I first discovered my husband's affair 3.5 years ago. So I never thought to verify once. He broke no contact just 3 short weeks after I discovered the affair. And he kept right on with it, straight through 6+ months of marriage counseling. He couldn't have been keeping up his affair--he was in counseling!!! Right?? Stupid, foolish, trusting me.

THREE YEARS LATER of a mediocre marriage where I puzzled and wondered at the lack of emotional connection, he accidentally texted me instead of her. And so I came to TAM, and I learned. I read Not Just Friends and Surviving an Affair, and I learned. I learned that my husband's chances of recontacting his affair partner after DD#1 were ASTRONOMICALLY high. I learned that exposing the affair to people my husband respects was a powerful disincentive to cheating any more. I found a terrific marriage counselor for us by doing my research, and he pulled Not Just Friends off the shelf and handed it to my husband.

And do you know what that excellent MC said? He looked right at my husband and said, you should welcome your wife verifying your trustworthiness by GPSing your phone and checking the phone bills etc etc. This is your last chance to recover the trust you've nearly destroyed.

I feel that we have turned the corner now and we're going to make it. I didn't feel I could say that any sooner than today. But he is back and committed and present. But it would never have happened if I'd buried my head in the sand.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> I am hearing what you all are trying to point out, but it's just not that easy I guess. We have children and the thought of having to live separate from them kills me. Plus call me a fool, but I do believe she's sincerely sorry for a lot of this, but is just still stuck in the fog of the situation. I think she just screwed up, got pulled back in by the emotions she had developed for him, *read the long stream of messages he had sent her *and caved into responding, letting him know that she's still thinking of him. I'm NOT accepting that though. I made it very clear to her that the next time she contacts him will be the last. Whether or not she believes me is up to her, but I will know at that point that I tried everything in my power to stop it and save this family a lot of pain and misery. Try to remember I'm human here guys and this mess is tough to navigate.


If she had deleted all accounts from the game, she would not have been able to read the messages. Why keep an account open if she didn't intend on continuing the affair? Cheaters are liars. Assume all of her words are lies UNLESS they are supported by actions. If words and actions conflict, believe actions.

Albert Einstein said, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

I see a lot of insanity on this forum. Way, way too much.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

WalkingInLight said:


> Rugsweeping is denial. I believe you must have missed the part where the OP told her that this is his final warning to her. That's not rugsweeping.
> 
> Given that "Who switched off my brain" is a well researched and scientifically based book, I' think I'm going to stick with the good Dr's explanations on how brain chemistry functions.
> 
> ...


I'm intent on him being a man about this. No contact means no contact. He may have said LAST CHANCE after the 1st discovery but if he was serious he'd be talking to an attorney. And he hasn't resolved to take any action whatsoever once she recovers. 

Reconciliation isn't the toughest choice. Anyone can cave into an unfaithful wife/husband so they can continue living in their farce of marriage. 

The toughest choice is to do whats best for ones self and ones children. 

Whether its to leave a home with little financial security, to kick a toxic spouse to the curb, or make the spouse realize what they're doing and correct it through counseling and consequences. Thats the toughest choice. Saying "I know I said one more chance the first time but this time I really mean it!" is not taking stand!

All your spouting is some justification crap with a religious undertone backed by someone who could be a quack for all we know. Just because a book is published doesn't mean its any good or well based.

So spare me on what this guy knows. What I do know is that when a EA or PA happens and no consequences are given, its much more likely to happen again.

So take a look at the 1st post because it just did.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

WalkingInLight said:


> Shaggy has a point here. Controlling behavior is different from making a reasonable request based on lost trust. If your wife is willing to reconcile, she should be ready to make some sacrifices for the marriage.
> 
> Since you said it's only been a few days since D day, can I encourage you to read this post from Pit http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21172-never-say-never.html?. I think he does a fairly good job of explaining the brain and the affair's effect on it.
> 
> FYI - my wife didn't come out of the fog until about 6 months after D Day. Keep your chin up - you're doing great!


Thanks again WalkingInLight, I read that link and asked my wife to read it too. I pointed out that all that stuff is why it is so important to guard against this even happening in the first place.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> It's only been a few weeks and she's already broken NC a few times now. It will probably go deeper underground now since she knows what you're monitoring. Did you ever expose the A to anyone? It's time for some consequences.
> 
> Because it looks like you're minimizing this quite a bit, saying it was only a few times and the last time was a few days ago. If you can't stick to your boundaries and enforce them, then this is going to drag out and she will continue the EA through other means, probably going PA if possible.
> 
> Yeah, we know it's difficult. We've all been there, done that, so don't think we don't know what you're going thru. But its time to enforce consequences, like a little more exposure. If you're afraid of being called controlling, then you're already setting yourself up for failure.


I did actually expose it to several people, though she had already confessed it to many herself. I am TRYING to enforce consequences, but at the same time, not go off the deep end.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> This just shows what a liar she is. She was posting here in this forum about how she wants to be completely transparent to you. Whenever a cheater accuses the BS of being controlling means they are upset that their BS is making it difficult to have their affair.
> 
> A truly remorseful wayward spouse welcomes the scrutiny and transparency because they want to rebuild trust with their betrayed spouse.


And I think you're right there, and that's where part of her anger and resentment towards me were coming from. See I not only took her from the affair, but from the game she was addicted to. She's seemed a lot more remorseful and less agitated about it since the initial justificaiton/throwing a fit phase though.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> I can clarify this, I think.
> 
> It is *a consequence* if you tell her that you are not willing to have a spouse who gives you any less than 100% of her affection and loyalty. Indicate that due to her giving some of her affection and loyalty to the OM on the computer in the game, it seems to you she is not able to handle the temptations of any computer access, and thus as her spouse you REQUEST (request means that she is free to say "no") that she volunteer to have absolutely NO computer access. She is free to say she will--for the sake of the marriage--or she won't. In this scenario you are controlling YOU and what you do and what you decide. If she won't give up computer access, you are free to make decisions about your own life and the kids' lives in order to protect "The Family Unit" from your spouse.
> 
> ...


I think you nailed a lot of what I've come to realize through this process. When I first wrote a marital reconcilation agreement at the advice of our therapist, it was done in anger and sounded pretty draconian and got everyone thinking I was a controlling maniac. After my emotions cooled somewhat and I snapped out of the initial shock and craziness, I realized how heavy handed it had been. Apparently the therapist knew what I wrote would be emotionally loaded like that and had wanted to discuss it with me/us first before it was presented to her. That was my mistake for misunderstanding.

After the discussion earlier in this thread, I did mention to my wife that in order to keep herself out of trouble and from being tempted, she may want to choose to let go of the Internet for a while. She said that was probably a good idea and that she was going to, aside from looking up only things for my son's school as he's homeschooled. I haven't even said anything, but so far tonight she's only used her phone to play a game on there. Hopefully she'll stick to it...

Throughout everything I've discussed with her, I've made sure she understood that any slip in contacting him would mean there is no more reconciliation.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> Why are you so hung up what other people think of you? You are fighting for your marriage and your family - tell them to take a hike if they don't like how you go about doing that. Trying to please everyone is just not gonna happen, so stop trying. You are constantly worrying about what people might think, how they might not agree with what you do. This is your life, not their's.
> 
> I would have taken her computer and thrown it off the tallest building I could find. Anyone who thought it was "controlling or unreasonable" would be welcome to try and catch it before it hit the ground.


Part of me knows what you mean, but I also know my wife well enough to know that if I try to force her into anything, she'll impulsively rebel and not use her head at all while she's doing it and that won't do any of us any good because I can't accept anymore rash decisions or impulses in this. I think it goes back to having been raised in a very strict environment. It's the same for at least one of her siblings too. As I mentioned in my response to Affair Care, I can't force her into anything...the only power I have it to accept what I will continue to tolerate.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> I think she just screwed up, got pulled back in by the emotions she had developed for him, read the long stream of messages he had sent her and caved into responding, letting him know that she's still thinking of him


She had that 3rd?, secret account in the game. She willingly was deceitful, sneaky, after being busted, after coming here claiming remorse and being fully into transparence. She reserved that secret account to log once in while and get her fixes. She thought about it when was the time be transparent, she planned to have it hid, she chose it, she did it, step by step, in order to have your in the dark and go underground ons the dust settled. Period. *She's not a victim but a perpetrator*.


> But it seems like it was only a couple of times she contacted him. One week after D-Day, in which she claims she just told him it was over and what they had done wasn't worth it. Then just a few days ago to...I don't know, tell him she was thinking about him and missed their chats


She was login once in while to read his messages, having the affaar in her mind until was time to restart it, then she toke the next step and responded. All the while pretending remorse and being transparent. *It was all fake.*


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> After the discussion earlier in this thread, I did mention to my wife that in order to keep herself out of trouble and from being tempted, she may want to choose to let go of the Internet for a while. She said that was probably a good idea and that she was going to, aside from looking up only things for my son's school as he's homeschooled. I haven't even said anything, but so far tonight *she's only used her phone to play a game on there*. Hopefully she'll stick to it...




I am not impressed. Way too many phone games are interactive or allow messaging capabilities. She can't even let it rest for one night? She's a gaming / Internet addict on top of everything else, that is quite apparent. That's like an alcoholic having a 'nip.'

Have you read up at all on how addictions function? On the pleasure circuits in the brain that get reinforced with the point and click? How powerful this is? 

Does your therapist have any experience with Internet / tech compulsions? 

One last thing: you are 100% correct that she must WANT to change. You CANNOT control her and it's a mistake to try. But I certainly hope Affaircare will agree--that doesn't mean you have to enable her gaming / Internet / inappropriate messaging compulsion.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

@badbane and UnsureinSeattle: That's all stuff I've thought of, trust me. When I walked her through what we were going to be doing when we divorce, both last night when I found out, and earlier today, I think reality hit her and she knows I'm serious and seems truly remorseful and ready to keep from contacting him again. Could be wrong, but only time will tell I guess.

@Emerald: Thanks a lot and thanks to everyone who's posted here. I understand you guys wouldn't be wasting your time and energy on this if it weren't because you had an interest in helping someone out.

@iheartlife: I'm sorry you had to go through that for so long. I truly hope that's not what is going to happen here, but I really am serious about enforcing things if she should contact him again.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

:banghead:


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> :banghead:


Exactly where the two of us found ourselves in the last thread he created.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Still Knight said:


> @badbane and UnsureinSeattle: That's all stuff I've thought of, trust me. When I walked her through what we were going to be doing when we divorce, both last night when I found out, and earlier today,* I think reality hit her and she knows I'm serious and seems truly remorseful* and ready to keep from contacting him again. Could be wrong, but only time will tell I guess.



Yeah, well, that what she says.



But we and you know now she said and wrote the same thing last time. And here you are again.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

aug said:


> Yeah, well, that what she says.
> 
> 
> 
> But we and you know now she said and wrote the same thing last time. And here you are again.


Wash, rinse, and repeat.

I guess she won't return here to explain her actions.


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## Still Knight (Jul 28, 2012)

Acabado said:


> She had that 3rd?, secret account in the game. She willingly was deceitful, sneaky, after being busted, after coming here claiming remorse and being fully into transparence. She reserved that secret account to log once in while and get her fixes. She thought about it when was the time be transparent, she planned to have it hid, she chose it, she did it, step by step, in order to have your in the dark and go underground ons the dust settled. Period. *She's not a victim but a perpetrator*.
> She was login once in while to read his messages, having the affaar in her mind until was time to restart it, then she toke the next step and responded. All the while pretending remorse and being transparent. *It was all fake.*


I know, it's true and that's what so screwed up and hurtful about this. The reconciliation was just an illusion if she knew all along she was keeping open an account in her game, where the only people she added as friends were his main character and his alt character. Plus the fact that both of their alts were named after fictional characters who are having an affair is just icing on the cake.

I mean, after the first time I left she wrote me promising she was willing to do whatever it took to save this, and yet in the back of her mind she knew she left a door open specifically to get back in touch with him. For all I know she still has one. But oh well, I've now done everything in my power including contacting him and his wife, who already asked my wife to stop contacting him. If she does it again, I truly have no choice.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Not sure about the course you take here, but I think the way things usually go with reconcilliation is it doesn't take the first time. I guess its how much the BS can put up with before the the affair is completely broken. There is no doubt she left her self a fall back position to re engage with the AP. But this should be expected and prepared for which evidently you did since you caught her.

If anyone wants to reconcile, they have to realize, there is probaly going to be more than the initial confrontation before recovery takes effect. 

Few addicts make it the first time.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Still Knight said:


> I know, it's true and that's what so screwed up and hurtful about this. The reconciliation was just an illusion if she knew all along she was keeping open an account in her game, where the only people she added as friends were his main character and his alt character. Plus the fact that both of their alts were named after fictional characters who are having an affair is just icing on the cake.
> 
> I mean, after the first time I left she wrote me promising she was willing to do whatever it took to save this, and yet in the back of her mind she knew she left a door open specifically to get back in touch with him.* For all I know she still has one.* But oh well, I've now done everything in my power including contacting him and his wife, who already asked my wife to stop contacting him. If she does it again, I truly have no choice.


Do you realize that, without any consequences, as explained by other members here, you are simply "feeding the fantasy" aka "the fog"? Two star-crossed lovers (soul-mates) who, against all odds (that would be you and the OMW) they can meet again in secret and continue to live the fantasy? Maybe even a phone app in place? Do you truly want your marriage back with you W only in love with you, or do you simply want to maintain the status-quo (aka "rug sweep") and hope her conscious prevails?

I have been through this my friend, and I didn't have this site and its members to explain the situation clearly to me and to offer hard solutions. Sadly, because I did not have the benefit of the experience of members here, my H and I are separated, he remains in the "fog" with his cell phone and his OW alone, while I struggle on my own without him, waiting to heal. If I had taken a harder stand at the point of discovery (as explained by members here) maybe the marriage would have had a chance. Sadly, it does not. 28 years down the tubes.

You have to shake the fog. That is the key that people are trying to motivate you to do. It takes hard work. It's risky. It takes the position that, at this point in time, she lies to you and will deceive you in order to maintain that relationship. You are in her way of achieving that "high" that she gets in that relationship. He is important to her. She will not let him go; she will merely hide him from you.

How many times do you have to catch her in order for you to take action and make some hard choices? No my friend, you have not done "everything in your power" as yet. You are merely rug sweeping again and hoping that she will "see the light" and mend her ways without you having to rattle the cage, and, as explained by others here, your response will not work. It will happen again. To a WS "in the fog", it is their "destiny" to meet again and try not to get caught again.

I wish you the best and do hope things work out, but it takes two to make a marriage work, and your WS just isn't in to it.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Still Knight said:


> If she does it again, I truly have no choice.


Look at it this way: you said something to same effect before, and she did it anyway. If she repeats now, you are unlikely to follow through again.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Train wreck in slow motion and the OP is shoveling coal....


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm courious as to what options/consequences Still Knight has or should enforce.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

putting words in your mouth chap, but not to say anything against you, just to make a point.



chapparal said:


> Few [Internet] addicts make it [if they're allowed continued access to the Internet].





chapparal said:


> Few [gaming] addicts make it [if they're allowed continued access to games].





chapparal said:


> Few [sexting] addicts make it [if they're allowed continued access to messaging].



I'm a bit concerned that this whole "you can't control her" theme has become, "so you _can_ keep enabling."


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

I have been going through these threads since yesterday, i do not wish to make light of your situation but I have found, to my utter surprise, that most of the people have the same stories and its really unsurprising that those who made it through on top were the ones that did follow advice being given here.


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## WalkingInLight (Aug 14, 2012)

Kasler said:


> I'm intent on him being a man about this.


I’m not sure what you mean by this statement. You either are the man you intend to be or you are not.



Kasler said:


> No contact means no contact. He may have said LAST CHANCE after the 1st discovery but if he was serious he'd be talking to an attorney. And he hasn't resolved to take any action whatsoever once she recovers.
> 
> Reconciliation isn't the toughest choice. Anyone can cave into an unfaithful wife/husband so they can continue living in their farce of marriage.


I think you and I are talking at cross purposes. What you describe in your post is not what is termed as true reconciliation. In fact you said it right here, “anyone can cave in to an unfaithful spouse and live in a farce of a marriage.”

The OP’s wife is clearly sorrowful for her actions to a certain degree, but she is also still stuck in the high of her A. She’ll need time to come off that high and face reality just as any other addict would.

False R is part of the pathway to true R. The OP catching his wife in a lie is not unexpected. I myself had a false R with my wife and she also broke NC on a couple of occasions. She did not resume her PA, but was still very hooked on the EA aspects. Had she had sex again, I would have left. Working with her to bring her back to reality from affair candy land I could handle. 

Had I simply continued to live as I expected reality to be (my wife immediately apologizing, showing true remorse, and breaking off all contact for good in just two seconds flat) rather than accepting reality as it truly was (she was involved in a 5 month affair, had developed feelings for him, and had contemplated leaving me), I doubt very much that we would have ever reconciled.

As hard as it is, it takes patience and some flexibility to reach true R. Each relationship is different – there is no cookie cutter approach to it. Only the OP can know for himself when it’s time to move on.



Kasler said:


> The toughest choice is to do whats best for ones self and ones children.
> 
> Whether its to leave a home with little financial security, to kick a toxic spouse to the curb, or make the spouse realize what they're doing and correct it through counseling and consequences. Thats the toughest choice. Saying "I know I said one more chance the first time but this time I really mean it!" is not taking stand!


I agree in part – that seems like a tough choice for anyone to make. But at the end of the day, moving away from a toxic spouse who is clearly unwilling to come out of the fog is, in my opinion, really no choice at all – especially when their selfish actions are causing ongoing harm to their spouse or children.

Forgiving someone who is intent on R, is showing genuine remorse, and is willing to put effort in, is amazingly hard. After all, this is the one person you thought you could trust for ever and always. The one person who had your back and would walk through fire with you. To be betrayed by this person is simply unimaginable and devastatingly painful. Especially if the affair was a long term one or included multiple APs over a long course of time. 



Kasler said:


> All your spouting is some justification crap with a religious undertone backed by someone who could be a quack for all we know. Just because a book is published doesn't mean its any good or well based.
> 
> So spare me on what this guy knows. What I do know is that when a EA or PA happens and no consequences are given, its much more likely to happen again.
> 
> So take a look at the 1st post because it just did.


You strike me as a very angry and bitter person. I don’t claim to know your background or personal experiences in life, but friend, holding on to the bitterness that you express in your posts on these forums is akin to drinking poison and hoping the other person will die.

To claim that a book that you haven’t read, written by a Ph.D and M.d. whom you know nothing about, is probably no good, well based, and likely quaky, is just plain foolishness.

I know that R is not for everyone. It certainly is an incredibly tough road to travel. However, all I see from you through your posts is an effort to project your own pain onto another’s relationship. As soon as the OP or another poster does not agree with your point of view, you go on the offensive.

What I looked for on these forums when I first arrived was to know that I was not alone - to become informed, to learn the tools available to me, and then to make my own decisions. All you seem to offer is attacks and to pull down people for failing to follow your advice.

I sincerely hope that the OP is able to make this work for him and his wife. He wouldn’t be the first person to experience true R and, if it still fails, he would know in his heart that at least he had given his all to rescue the woman he loves.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Online Gamers Anonymous - Gaming Addiction Resources & Community For Gamers and People Affected by Gamers | <p align=center><a href="/"><img alt="Game Addiction Help & Resources" src="sites/all/images/banner_new.png"></a></p>
Online Gamers Anonymous - Gaming Addiction Resources & Community For Gamers and People Affected by Gamers 

for family:
OLG-Anon (Family/Friends) Message Boards | Online Gamers Anonymous - Gaming Addiction Resources & Community For Gamers and People Affected by Gamers


List of games reported as addictive (probably not very insightful, we could compose a list ourselves)
Games That Have Been Reported To Be Addictive | Online Gamers Anonymous - Gaming Addiction Resources & Community For Gamers and People Affected by Gamers

If you google Internet addiction, you will quickly pull up various groups who claim to treat it, and of course dead front center their biggest issue is addiction to "adult fantasy role-play sites", "cyber-sex," and "online affairs."


It's still unclear to me that the WS's counselor is trained at all in addictive / compusive behaviors, and whether they have any understanding of the grip that gaming and online activities can have on people. In many ways, the affair is just another symptom of an underlying problem that she has. That is just my opinion, carried over from the first thread. 

Perhaps the affair is being dealt with, but so far I see only a little bit of a nod to slowing down on the gaming front. I suspect that gaming and online activities are her way of soothing anxiety--they are an escape--and being drawn into virtual relationships is part and parcel of that.

We talk about being addicted to particular PEOPLE on CWI, but I'm not so sure that this is what we're seeing here. I'm not convinced that anyone on this board is equipped to advise him other than the obvious, cold turkey / pull the plug. It's no different than the forum members whose spouses are alcoholics / drug addicts as a component of their affairs--while the two are separate, BOTH need treatment before there can be effective change.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

chapparal said:


> I'm courious as to what options/consequences Still Knight has or should enforce.


It's pointless to discuss it here as she will watch this thread.

(Maybe we should warn newcomers to not get their WS in the loop here too soon, about half of such couple recoveries here turn out fake)


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> In many ways, the affair is just another symptom of an underlying problem that she has. That is just my opinion, carried over from the first thread.


x1000.
I already told her she needs IC in order to become a healthier person before becoming a safe wife. She agreed. Don't know wheher she followed through. Given she was all the while having that door opened to a false R I highly doubt she's really comited to anything but going through the motions, reacting, leaving things "happening to her". It's really a shame. She' still having an affair. It's what it is.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

WalkingInLight said:


> ’
> 
> The OP’s wife is clearly sorrowful for her actions to a certain degree, but she is also still stuck in the high of her A. She’ll need time to come off that high and face reality just as any other addict would.
> 
> .


Clearly sorrowful...to a certain degree? How do you arrive at that conclusion?

She may very well be sorry she got caught (again). But is she truly into her marriage and her husband and does she recognize that the OM is poison to her marriage yet? Does she care? One would think that she got the message the first time. How many chances do you suggest that the OP give her? Two more? Many six? Nine? As many as it takes?

And how does one go about getting her off that high and to face reality? By not changing her (current) reality? Staying in the home together, watching her like a hawk, always keeping his guard up? What exactly do you propose?

You see, the suggestion here, although somewhat harsh at time, have been proven to work successfully. An "addict" doesn't change until they hit "rock bottom". In a marriage, "rock bottom" is when one spouse packs up and leaves and serves the WS with divorce papers. There is no negotiation until the WS actually sees that the BS will no longer accept this behavior. Then either the WS wakes up from "the fog" and does anything and everything to get the marriage back, or they continue in the "fog" and the marriage is over.

To consistently suggest that the OP accept this behavior, believe in his WS, trust his WS and change nothing and demand no consequences and "assume" that she is truly remorseful is a recipe for disaster. It will happen again. And again.

Tough love. One has to be willing to shake it up to fix it.


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## WalkingInLight (Aug 14, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> Clearly sorrowful...to a certain degree? How do you arrive at that conclusion?


From Still Knight’s posts. From his comments about where things are at. From the things he said that she told him. I looked at all his responses in this thread, not just his first post.



survivorwife said:


> She may very well be sorry she got caught (again). But is she truly into her marriage and her husband and does she recognize that the OM is poison to her marriage yet? Does she care?


Neither I, nor you, know the answer to that. The sad part is, neither does the OP. Time will tell.



survivorwife said:


> One would think that she got the message the first time. How many chances do you suggest that the OP give her? Two more? Many six? Nine? As many as it takes?


Unfortunately, the majority of WS do not get the message the first time at all. They are on a high from the A and the effects that the dopamine have on their brain are difficult to combat.

They “feel” like they are in love with the other person. Trying to change their behavior ‘just like that’ is not something that is easy to do. For all intense purposes, they are addicts.

How many chances should the OP give his wife? As many as *he* feels comfortable with. My understanding is that she has not gone back to a PA but rather broke NC because she was missing the feel good feelings she used to get from her AP, right?

If being willing to work with his wife to try and pull her out of denial and the candy land feelings is something he wants to try, who are you or I to judge?

There may well come a time that he discovers that she has broken NC again and that, as he himself said, will lead him to move out. That also would not be the end of the world if he did, nor his marriage. But based on everything I have learnt over the past 18 months, I would never be too quick to recommend a man leave his wife simply because she is unable to kill the “in love” feelings she has for her AP in the space of a mere 6 weeks.

My wife needed six months to fully come out of the fog.



survivorwife said:


> And how does one go about getting her off that high and to face reality? By not changing her (current) reality? Staying in the home together, watching her like a hawk, always keeping his guard up? What exactly do you propose?


That’s almost akin to asking what color is best. Relationships are different and people are different. 180s, plan A/plan Bs, go darks, just let them goes, file ASAP etc – they all have elements of them that work. But when he should do what, and what he should do, will depend on the OP’s own unique set of circumstances and who he is as a man.

I don’t have anything new to propose other than what I’ve already shared. Ultimately, the OP has already stated what he is prepared to do and not prepared to do. He’ll discover what works and what doesn’t work for him as he starts to put the tools that he has learned here into effect.



survivorwife said:


> You see, the suggestion here, although somewhat harsh at time, have been proven to work successfully. An "addict" doesn't change until they hit "rock bottom". In a marriage, "rock bottom" is when one spouse packs up and leaves and serves the WS with divorce papers. There is no negotiation until the WS actually sees that the BS will no longer accept this behavior. Then either the WS wakes up from "the fog" and does anything and everything to get the marriage back, or they continue in the "fog" and the marriage is over.


Again – every person is different. If what you stated worked 100% every time, there would never be a need for discussion; everyone would be doing it.

In my situation, I did the 180 and the Plan A/Plan B – but it wasn’t until I realized that I could not control my wife or her behavior and I started to work on me – to address the 50% of the damage I had done to my marriage – that change happened. 

I realized that following all the advice on here wasn’t getting me anywhere – I needed to come to the point of realizing my marriage did not get bad overnight. My wife did not just wake up one day and decide it was so bad she needed comfort from someone else.

As I started to read “Hold on to Your N.U.T.s” and to attend Celebrate Recovery where I could talk to people, I started to realize my significant failings. This, more than any other threat I had made about not tolerating any future infidelity helped bring my wife, and my marriage, back from the brink. She started to see the changes in me and wanted to know more.

This is not to say I accept responsibility for her affair – I don’t and never will. But I did need to start asking broader questions other than, “why and how could you do this to me; to us?”



survivorwife said:


> To consistently suggest that the OP accept this behavior, believe in his WS, trust his WS and change nothing and demand no consequences and "assume" that she is truly remorseful is a recipe for disaster. It will happen again. And again. Tough love. One has to be willing to shake it up to fix it.


I’m not clear if you mean that I personally am saying he should accept her behavior or believe in his wife, or if you mean all of those of us in here who are pro R are. Regardless of the answer - that is not what I have said or would say. 

I would no more trust an addict with cash than I would trust someone on an affair high to tell me the truth or to even be coherent in their thoughts. That’s why checking up on them is essential if attempting to R – otherwise they may be in for a very rude awakening.

I’m simply picking up on the fact that:
1. The OP seems to indicate his wife is not “too far gone” as to be unreachable
2. She has indicated a modicum of remorse and is attempting to break free
3. She is still stuck on the affair high
4. She seems responsive to her H when he talks

Letting his wife know his limits and what they are is up to him to decide. One day he may need to walk away, to 180 her, plan B her, go dark, or just let her go etc – but I’d rather wish him the best, encourage him in his efforts, and allow him the freedom to make up his own mind, than join the rest in telling him to give up and just walk.

Let me assure you – these boards are full of people and their stories. And not all end in S or D. 

Let us not be too quick to forget that fact or to assume that just because every story on TaM sounds the same... that it is.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

This advice probably would have made more sense on the first Dday. This is number two.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Still Knight said:


> I know, it's true and that's what so screwed up and hurtful about this.* The reconciliation was just an illusion if she knew all along she was keeping open an account in her game, where the only people she added as friends were his main character and his alt character*.* Plus the fact that both of their alts were named after fictional characters who are having an affair is just icing on the cake.*
> 
> I mean, after the first time I left she wrote me promising she was willing to do whatever it took to save this, and yet in the back of her mind she knew she left a door open specifically to get back in touch with him. For all I know she still has one. But oh well, I've now done everything in my power including contacting him and his wife, who already asked my wife to stop contacting him. If she does it again, I truly have no choice.



you should seriously keep this in mind


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

OP- What I don't think you truely undertand is YOUR actions (caving, making excuses for her, not have a backbone) will only cause your WW to know that she can still have an EMOTIONAL AFFAIR with another MAN. That is the truth. Your only hope is that the OMW isn't as weak as you are. And even if that is the case, someone else will come around and she will feel comfortable knowing you are there for her to watch the kids, provide financial support, and all else security provides, so she can give ANOTHER MAN her HEART. Eventually her BODY will be his too. All while you are UNcomfortablely at your home saying to yourself "how can this happen again" And it will happen, be ready for it, it is going to hurt like hell. 

When your WS reaches the level that there isn't any concequences for their actions, so goes the guilt, then it starts getting pretty comfortable with their new exciting way of life, they actually want both lifestyles. The safe one (you) and the fun exciting one (LOVER). 

I don't think you will understand really ever. 

I am a serial cheater, I only think of what I NEED. Not the people I say I care about. Although I am not a cake eater, both of the WW I had A's with were. Both said it outright.... I want you, I am addicted to you, we can have both,why stop.... You don't enable an Addict, golden rule to live by.


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