# What do guys think of nice gals?



## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

I would like to ask people a question.

There's a lot on here about nice guys, but is there a female equivalent? 

Can a woman be too nice and suffer from nice gal syndrome?

If you bend over backwards and try to be too accomodating, do guys lose repect for you? Even the nice guys?


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## Northern Monkey (May 2, 2013)

Personally I love strong women. I dont want meek and mild. As I say to mine, she might not be a girly girl but she is all woman.

Imo I need calling on my bullshyt, everybit as much as I now know I need to do the same.

I spent three yeras with someone that would have done anything for me yet in all that time i never said i love you as it wouldn t have been true. She should really have hightailed it long before she did but she was too nice, and too hopeful.

Guess that could be seen as saying yes. They can be.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Mother Teresa was too nice, no wonder she didnt get married


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Oh heck yeah you can be TOO nice as a female.

Men lose just as much respect for doormats as women do.

This isn't gender specific.


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## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

I didn't think I was a girly girl, but my partner said I am as girly as they come. Girly isn't cool!

Mind you, for about 3 days out of every month, I turn into a rabid, hell fire b***h.  That pretty normal for all women though, isn't it?

I'm going through a rocky patch in my relationship and have been bending over backwards to be super nice to him. It doesn't seem to be working. I got discouraged and started to ignore him and now he seems more interested. 

I think the nice guy thing applies to women too.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Nice'ing someone into meeting your needs never works.


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## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> Nice'ing someone into meeting your needs never works.


Nope, it certainly doesn't!

I've given up on that front. I'll be fair and reasonable, but now I'm planning to basically please myself. If he remains disinterested, it can only go one way...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Nice girls get friendzoned, not respectable enough for a relationship

Respectable enough for good friends though yes


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

I love the nice gals :smthumbup:

Sure attraction is important, and sometimes thats the first thing you go on. But I have become interested in women after getting to know them. Their personality is what attracts me in the end. If its apparent that a drop dead gorgeous woman is too into herself and thinks she is all that, I lose interest. And there is a big difference between thinking we, as people, are attractive, and being in love with ourselves.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Oh come on, why do we have to play at extremes?

Simply don't be too nice, stand up for yourself, be respectable, show some backbone, don't be a pushover, but you don't have to shove a stick up your ass and have a snobby nose to achieve it!


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## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

RandomDude, You know it's bad when you end up getting friendzoned by your own partner! 

It's happened to me before. 

dusty4, At least someone appreciates nice girls.  I don't think nice and attractive have to be mutually exclusive. If that was the case, all ugly people would be good people, and they aren't.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I think the last "nice" one was born around 1950, in Texas, I believe. I'd have better odds finding Big Foot.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Nice girls get friendzoned, not respectable enough for a relationship
> 
> Respectable enough for good friends though yes


After going through some mean ones and stone wallers who waste alot of time, I for one would like a "nice" one who is intelligent and I'm attracted to. 

"nice" is underrated, and you don't have to take advantage of it.

I want one whose going to bend over backwards from time to time.


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

Well guys. I'm a self professed "Good Girl". But I would do anything for my hubby. Oh I think I understand the nice girl problem and I have that as well. Again I will do anything. It's how to be more demanding yet still be that nice girl that I'm having a problem with.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ALWAYS TRYING said:


> Well guys. I'm a self professed "Good Girl". But I would do anything for my hubby. Oh I think I understand the nice girl problem and I have that as well. Again I will do anything. It's how to be more demanding yet still be that nice girl that I'm having a problem with.


A good girl is great! Especially if she takes care of her man. Nice is not a problem to friends who appreciate it and are reciprocative. It's great to have a friend who knows how to treat people well.


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## mule kick (Apr 10, 2012)

I met what I think is a nice girl from Mississippi this year. She's got that Southern charm and is incredibly sweet and beautiful. She is just what I needed and I don't intend to lose her even though in her opinion she is more at risk of losing me. I like her and love her. I'm definitely attracted to her. I think with those circumstances it's possible to be the nicest girl in the world and not be a bad thing.


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## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

ALWAYS TRYING said:


> Well guys. I'm a self professed "Good Girl". But I would do anything for my hubby. Oh I think I understand the nice girl problem and I have that as well. Again I will do anything. It's how to be more demanding yet still be that nice girl that I'm having a problem with.


Yes, that's it exactly. I don't now what the balance is, or how to achieve it. My fella was seeming distant and I have been making an effort to spice up our sex life (for my own benefit admittedly)cooking, cleaning, buying nice food and trying to do all the nice womanly things. 

You don't want to be an evil b***h, but you don't want to be a doormat either. Why is it so difficult. :scratchhead:


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

WellyVamp said:


> Yes, that's it exactly. I don't now what the balance is, or how to achieve it. My fella was seeming distant and I have been making an effort to spice up our sex life (for my own benefit admittedly)cooking, cleaning, buying nice food and trying to do all the nice womanly things.
> 
> You don't want to be an evil b***h, but you don't want to be a doormat either. Why is it so difficult. :scratchhead:


It's not difficult. You can be a nice woman. If you get with a selfish prick whose only thinking of himself, you let him know and if it's not working you drop him. 

A nice woman is such a boost to an appreciative mans spirit, it's amazing.

The problem with being nice is there are people who will take advantage of you, and also you can be a good person with good intentions but too nice.

If she's attractive to me, I'd just let her know and count my blessings to have her.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I think that you are conflating two different things.

Being a doormat (i.e willing to put up with any behavior and pretending not to have an opinion or preference about anything) 

And being a nuturing human being.

I really dig a girl who can nuture and be there for me.

But I don't want a doormat either. I'd like someone who has at least SOME self respect (cause a doormat for me will let some other guy wipe his feet on her). 

Some intrigue...a bit of mystery...possessiveness.

There is nothing wrong with a touch of jealousy on both the partners part. It shows that they value the relationship. BUT flirting with others is disrespectful.

Nurture, don't nice. If he starts to take that for granted, take it away.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JCD said:


> I think that you are conflating two different things.
> 
> Being a doormat (i.e willing to put up with any behavior and pretending not to have an opinion or preference about anything)
> 
> ...


Your nice "doormat" might have went through a bad relationship where her walls were broken down. So you appreciate her, and let her know she doesn't have to be like that and you support and love her.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Maybe we're talking about a different word. Nice should not equal doormat. I'm nice but I won't be walked all over. I cook, I clean, I do laundry but I do expect him to help out as I need or ask, I do expect him to take care of his end of the bargain and do things I can't or don't want to (fixing things, heavy stuff, taking out trash). 

I don't think any person worth having would be happy in a relationship with a doormat.


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

So I'm too much of a doormat. Don't put my foot down enough. Trying really I am. I need to tell him my thoughts on things more often. Don't just accept. 

Yes?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> Maybe we're talking about a different word. Nice should not equal doormat. I'm nice but I won't be walked all over. I cook, I clean, I do laundry but I do expect him to help out as I need or ask, I do expect him to take care of his end of the bargain and do things I can't or don't want to (fixing things, heavy stuff, taking out trash).
> 
> I don't think any person worth having would be happy in a relationship with a doormat.


A user or cheater would be more than happy to have doormatted their relationship partner. Get to do their thing uninterrupted.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

treyvion said:


> A user or cheater would be more than happy to have doormatted their relationship partner. Get to do their thing uninterrupted.


Yes, which is why I stated 'No one worth having'.


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## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

The problem is that I absolutely hate conflict. Sometimes, it's easier to keep the peace. I can't stand atmospheres. 

My partner pulls his weight and does his fair share, but I always feel as though I could be giving more. It's my own messed up issue and lack of self esteem.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Let me try another approach. Conflict isn't a bad thing - it's a means of coming to an acceptable compromise. It's also letting someone know how you feel, what you like, what you want, etc.

Without sharing that, it' s really hard for a partner to really KNOW you and LOVE you when you hide all of that information behind a wall. It's also not giving that partner the opportunity to do these amazing, wonderful things to please you.

I'm not saying it's easy, I struggle with this at times too but I'm learning that without talking to him about them, and then holding in bits of resentment or disappointment, it slowly poisons and kills the joy in our relationship.


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## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> Let me try another approach. Conflict isn't a bad thing - it's a means of coming to an acceptable compromise. It's also letting someone know how you feel, what you like, what you want, etc.
> 
> Without sharing that, it' s really hard for a partner to really KNOW you and LOVE you when you hide all of that information behind a wall. It's also not giving that partner the opportunity to do these amazing, wonderful things to please you.
> 
> I'm not saying it's easy, I struggle with this at times too but I'm learning that without talking to him about them, and then holding in bits of resentment or disappointment, it slowly poisons and kills the joy in our relationship.


I like your thinking. 

Have you worked it out by yourself, or did you learn techniques from MC, books etc?


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

My wife is a sweet angel. I always made love to her.......Until one time I just fvcked her.... She's not so nice anymore


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Welly....you asked this question elsewhere, and I recommended the book Why Men Love B*tches for you. Did you check it out?


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## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Welly....you asked this question elsewhere, and I recommended the book Why Men Love B*tches for you. Did you check it out?


Did I ask this question before? Doh.  

Do you think men really do love B****s? I don't like b*****ds.


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## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

Nice can sometimes = boring. I think men say they want a nice, sweet girl, but they seem to be attracted to the wild, crazy, and/or b*tchy women.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

WellyVamp said:


> I like your thinking.
> 
> Have you worked it out by yourself, or did you learn techniques from MC, books etc?


So, some of it from MC, some from books (5 love languages was really helpful) and some just from a near failure of our marriage.

When I finally opened up about what I thought, felt, wanted, needed it felt SOOooo good. What felt better was seeing that my partner WANTED to know this stuff.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

WellyVamp said:


> There's a lot on here about nice guys, but is there a female equivalent?
> 
> Can a woman be too nice and suffer from nice gal syndrome?


Perhaps you don't really understand the pathological Nice Guy. He is not Nice as in pleasant and polite. He is Nice as in pathologically self sacrificing. He puts everybody else ahead of himself. He tries to please everybody. He tries to appear perfect so that he won't be repulsive. He desperately craves approval from everyone else. He resorts to sneaky manipulations to get what he wants while at the same time trying to appear as if he does not need anything.

A woman can have all of these qualities too. In some ways there will be differences, notably around sex. The woman will try to appear chaste and demur despite her real history. Whereas the man probably has some serious toxic shame around sex, so he tries to appear sexual but in real life he is afraid of sex.

Yes it will turn off men when they figure out what is going on with a Nice Gal.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

ALWAYS TRYING said:


> So I'm too much of a doormat. Don't put my foot down enough. Trying really I am. I need to tell him my thoughts on things more often. Don't just accept.
> 
> Yes?


Yes.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Just check out the book. It isn't about the type of B*tch you think it is, just like the Nice Guy isn't actually that nice.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

WellyVamp said:


> The problem is that I absolutely hate conflict. Sometimes, it's easier to keep the peace. I can't stand atmospheres.


?

What does this mean, exactly? Telling each other how we feel is not conflict. That's actually conflict _resolution_.


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## barcafan (Jul 25, 2012)

I also love nice girls and girly girls. I love a woman who is kind and gentle. I don't want a *****y bossy woman who can be more competitive than a male friend. "Strong Independent" women are extremely overrated mainly by the beta male community.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm not saying nice girls can't be appreciated, but personally they become like little sisters/friendzoned, for me anyways. But all they are lacking is just some backbone and the ability to say no / be assertive / refuse to be taken advantage of.

If they can just know when to be nice and when to stand up for themselves, nice girls are perfect. Alas, most people just don't change, at least not easily. If she can't stand for herself I can't rely on her to stand for me or our relationship if the time comes and the push comes to shove.

How can I trust a woman with unproven strength to weather the trails of life together with me? I just can't, but that doesn't mean that nice girls are undesirable, they just need to grow up into wise, mature, and strong women from little girls but that's just me.

Also, there are general drawbacks (I'm speaking stereotypically btw, no one nice girl is the same as the next), like conflict avoidance. My STBX had this 'quality' that many nice girls have, pushed issues underground instead of allowing us to deal with them, and just p-ssed me off with silent treatment, denial, and hidden resentment building over the years!

So meh, not my type


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Good girls. I guess it comes down how one is defined. When I met my STBXW...she sorta kept her wild side at a minimum, saving full throttle for later. I actually was attracted to the part of her that was very kind and servant-hearted. When we met, she always seemed to be hospitable...and I even remember one time where she was visiting elderly, to talk and sing with them. That is the kind of girl that I am attracted to when one says good. But if good means no personality, afraid of conflict, then I would say no.


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## Northern Monkey (May 2, 2013)

To clarify my stance. There is nothing wrong with nice. In fact imo the strongest women are nice. They fare, they are affectionate. But they are strong enough to know their boundaries and stand by them.

Being nice isn't the same as nice guy syndrome but a woman showing the same traits as a nice guy is not attractive.

I would not intentionally take advantage of someone but I have my own issues and accept sometimes I need telling "oh help no!". I wouldn't want someone to roll over when I am out of order.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Northern Monkey said:


> To clarify my stance. There is nothing wrong with nice. In fact imo the strongest women are nice. They fare, they are affectionate. But they are strong enough to know their boundaries and stand by them.
> 
> Being nice isn't the same as nice guy syndrome but a woman showing the same traits as a nice guy is not attractive.
> 
> I would not intentionally take advantage of someone but I have my own issues and accept sometimes I need telling "oh help no!". I wouldn't want someone to roll over when I am out of order.


Ok.

So she has fallen deeply in love with you.

Due to this emotion, she's bending over backwards for you. She likes doing it, it makes her feel good to make you satisfied and feel happy...

Ok, you admire it but either you don't plan on reciprocating at that level, or you really do like her, but you think some of it is too much and she needs to worry about herself more, so you get her to see the light. Or, you love it, and you love the fairy tale thing and you reciprocate at a high level to her, because you see her the same way and feel fortunate to have found someone who really loves you that you can do this with.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

WellyVamp said:


> I would like to ask people a question.
> 
> There's a lot on here about nice guys, but is there a female equivalent?
> 
> ...


No, not really. I see some women disagree, but this is one of the fundamental areas of difference between the natures of men and women. A man doesn't look to be led by his women, he doesn't expect his women to protect him or provide for him.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

hooray for generalizations!


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## Northern Monkey (May 2, 2013)

*Re: Re: What do guys think of nice gals?*



treyvion said:


> Ok.
> 
> So she has fallen deeply in love with you.
> 
> ...


Been there and did it in my younger years. Spent three years with someone I thought a lot of but never loved. She would do anything for me. Three years it took her to realise she deserved better. 

Took me many more to realise so do I but in terms of this thread that is something else entirely except to say I would not have that relationship again.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> hooray for generalizations!


80/20 rule my friend. It's what makes the world go around. There are few unique snowflakes among humans.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> 80/20 rule my friend. It's what makes the world go around. There are few unique snowflakes among humans.


20% of 7 billion is about 1.4 billion people, a significant number to stop making such assumptions, don't you think?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> 20% of 7 billion is about 1.4 billion people, a significant number to stop making such assumptions, don't you think?


It's how the brain works, and nature at large. You have to know the "rules" before you can know to bend them or to recognize deviations from the pattern. Always play the odds, unless you've rigged the game.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

see that's the problem Mach, life isn't a game nor are relationships. You need information and careful thought before you make decisions that impact your life and loved ones. Pigeon holing anyone based on their gender, orientation, race or what have you is simply foolish imo.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Almostrecovered said:


> see that's the problem Mach, life isn't a game nor are relationships. You need information and careful thought before you make decisions that impact your life and loved ones. Pigeon holing anyone based on their gender, orientation, race or what have you is simply foolish imo.


We can think whatever we want about pidgeon holing, but in my experience it's best to realize it occurs and not bury my head in the sand about it.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

OF COURSE THAT OCCURS

but to assume that being a "nice" girl won't matter in ANY relationship is a foolish folly

there are more dynamics to relationships than just the social darwinism crap that Mach wishes to apply to every situation I have ever seen him post on.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Almostrecovered said:


> OF COURSE THAT OCCURS
> 
> but to assume that being a "nice" girl won't matter in ANY relationship is a foolish folly
> 
> there are more dynamics to relationships than just the social darwinism crap that Mach wishes to apply to every situation I have ever seen him post on.


I just know, that after going through some serious ball breakers, that a "Nice" gal in spirit, tone of voice and actions makes me excited, makes me feel good, and makes my c0ck super duper hard.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

treyvion said:


> I just know, that after going through some serious ball breakers, that a "Nice" gal in spirit, tone of voice and actions makes me excited, makes me feel good, and makes my c0ck super duper hard.



awesome for you?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Almostrecovered said:


> awesome for you?


Yeah, God bless a woman whose good to her deserving man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> see that's the problem Mach, life isn't a game nor are relationships. You need information and careful thought before you make decisions that impact your life and loved ones. Pigeon holing anyone based on their gender, orientation, race or what have you is simply foolish imo.


There are winners and losers in games, love, war, and life. In war, the military uses kriegspiel to perceive deficiencies and trends in war fighting to ensure that we are the winners in war. We don't prepare for war in the expectation of facing resurrected Waffen-SS zombie divisions armed with the wonder weapons of the 25th century. Although, that's always a possibility. Same with human interaction; there are patterns that are played out consistently in relationships across time, distance, and culture. When one has addressed and gamed the 80% of what one is likely to encounter, then one can worry about the zombies and snowflakes.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm thinking the OP was talking more about being a doormat, rather than being nice.

I think everyone wants to be treated nicely and have someone that's good to them.

Would you guys really want someone who is freaking angry, resentful and pissed off but won't ever talk to you about it? Just smile and carry on without really allowing you to work it out? Seems like a dangerous situation to be in a relationship where one partner shares nothing of what they really think or feel.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

I don't think you can properly translate the "Nice Guy" syndrome to women because it describes a codependent male and how he is emasculated.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I don't completely agree Brock. While women can't be emasculated, to be voiceless in your relationship because you're afraid of conflict isn't attractive either. Same basic principle, just named differently. (And no, I'm not a feminist so please don't paint me as such).

While I am definitely deferential to my H, he values that I can talk to him when something bothers me, makes me angry or otherwise upsets him. It gives him something he can fix, work on or address where if I just hold it in, it's likely to come out in some other fashion as repressed emotions seem to do.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"I don't think you can properly translate the "Nice Guy" syndrome to women because it describes a codependent male and how he is emasculated."

Yes, it happens to women, too. A woman can be co-dependant and de-feminized or infantilized by the same process.

When an adult of either gender does not act in their own self-interest, that adult becomes a poor spouse.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

BrockLanders said:


> I don't think you can properly translate the "Nice Guy" syndrome to women because it describes a codependent male and how he is emasculated.


There certainly is a a more social consequence for men being codependent than women being codependent. Still, in both scenarios, the men get the blame, cos...A) Doormat female marry jerks and the men are vilified, and B) Doormat males are vilified for not meeting their "independent" wives' need. Lose-lose scenarios for men in codependent relationships. You go girls!:smthumbup:


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> There are winners and losers in games, love, war, and life. In war, the military uses kriegspiel to perceive deficiencies and trends in war fighting to ensure that we are the winners in war. We don't prepare for war in the expectation of facing resurrected Waffen-SS zombie divisions armed with the wonder weapons of the 25th century. Although, that's always a possibility. Same with human interaction; there are patterns that are played out consistently in relationships across time, distance, and culture. When one has addressed and gamed the 80% of what one is likely to encounter, then one can worry about the zombies and snowflakes.


So we need plug in the personalities and situation and run it through the computer simulator.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

FormerSelf said:


> There certainly is a a more social consequence for men being codependent than women being codependent. Still, in both scenarios, the men get the blame, cos...A) Doormat female marry jerks and the men are vilified, and B) Doormat males are vilified for not meeting their "independent" wives' need. Lose-lose scenarios for men in codependent relationships. You go girls!:smthumbup:


Quite the rationalization there - don't you think the doormat is the person who owns their state of unhappiness? 

I find it slightly ironic that you want to blame women for blaming men. Just saying...


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> While women can't be emasculated, to be voiceless in your relationship because you're afraid of conflict isn't attractive either. Same basic principle, just named differently.


And that is what I have read is the hallmark of a dysfunctional relationship: anti-communicative. If you can't talk to someone without that person blowing up, or if someone is afraid of conflict over "forbidden" subjects, the proverbial elephant...then that is unhealthy no matter what gender you are.
You attract the energy you put out (not I'm not talking about The Secret)...basically dysfunctional people are magnetized toward each other (black hole relationships)...and the addict/codependent paradigm is a powerful duo of destruction....where no one wins a merit badge. Sorry no martyr awards for doormats. The problem is that if people were more honest and authentic in dating, there wouldn't be so much disillusionment and buyers' remorse.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I understand what you're saying FormerSelf. I was speaking really from my own experience. 

My H is a great husband. For some reason, I just didn't communicate with him about a lot of things in the interest of preserving the peace. He never portrayed that he never wanted to hear them or would have left, those were my own perceptions. So, I 'suffered' in silence while the resentment built and built. 

We've overcome that but a lot of times it really has nothing to do with their partner but the doormat's perception of how they 'might' react instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt that they'll be a decent human being.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> Quite the rationalization there - don't you think the doormat is the person who owns their state of unhappiness?


 No rationalizing...just a funny observation...not something I base my life after. Both parties are equally responsible for their part...especially if reconciliation/recovery is sought. I am just saying in popular/ non-informed society...men are typically regarded as the abuser...or the man that just couldn't earn respect.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> For some reason, I just didn't communicate with him about a lot of things in the interest of preserving the peace. He never portrayed that he never wanted to hear them or would have left, those were my own perceptions. So, I 'suffered' in silence while the resentment built and built.


I know exactly what you are saying, because I am the codependent in my marriage...sadly, ending marriage. So my quip was more or less spoken out of my experience...which is very much like yours, except that my spouse is indeed an addict...who married me for survival...and never saw me as a life partner. And while I must say my perceptions were clouded, my wife really did not have healthy attachment skills.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear that FormerSelf. It's really painful. 

I nearly destroyed my marriage by shutting down communication on some really important issues. I own that failure, not my husband.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

treyvion said:


> So we need plug in the personalities and situation and run it through the computer simulator.


Well, the ones we used to use were big maps on big tables with little cardboard pieces. It is all computerized these days, though. 

However, with regards to the issue at hand, applying there is no direct co-relation between the sexes between "nice guy" and "nice girl." Think of the term women try to use today, "man-whøre." If used for male prostitute, it totally makes sense, but women try to equate it with "male slüt" and it doesn't work, because to men, it reads "stud."


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Well, the ones we used to use were big maps on big tables with little cardboard pieces. It is all computerized these days, though.
> 
> However, with regards to the issue at hand, applying there is no direct co-relation between the sexes between "nice guy" and "nice girl." Think of the term women try to use today, "man-whøre." If used for male prostitute, it totally makes sense, but women try to equate it with "male slüt" and it doesn't work, because to men, it reads "stud."


Nice, and I'm sure some of it goes the other way around too. I'm sure what a male calls a ball breaker, to them may be a strong independant woman with a clear set of boundaries.

We could work out sub-situations with a decision tree and map out how it normally plays out. Thinking about this out loud, kinda makes me realize to be aware when I'm in certain alignments, because of how they tend to play out.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Nice, and I'm sure some of it goes the other way around too. I'm sure what a male calls a ball breaker, to them may be a strong independant woman with a clear set of boundaries.


Quite possibly, and a guy who stays with "a strong independent woman with a clear set of boundaries" we might call a "gamma" or a "herb" (for those with a bias against the greek alphabet).


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

So once again I have read this whole thread from start to finish and have come away with the fact that I'm your biggest doormat. Trying to change it is really hard. Because I always saw it as being the good wife and doing for my hubby and our marriage. But never doing for myself. I am a nice good girl hows that for a new title for me. Not putting up with crap any more. But still want to do things for him

See I have issues with this. Been a doormat forever so change is slow. And we are trying to fix his problems. So I just keep reading and moving forward. Thanks all of you


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ALWAYS TRYING said:


> So once again I have read this whole thread from start to finish and have come away with the fact that I'm your biggest doormat. Trying to change it is really hard. Because I always saw it as being the good wife and doing for my hubby and our marriage. But never doing for myself. I am a nice good girl hows that for a new title for me. Not putting up with crap any more. But still want to do things for him
> 
> See I have issues with this. Been a doormat forever so change is slow. And we are trying to fix his problems. So I just keep reading and moving forward. Thanks all of you


There is nothing wrong in doing for your partner, especially if you guys take care of each other and view each other as a joint unit. The problems occur when one stop caring about the other as much or is taking advantage of the kindness. Someone who is taking advantage of it, builds a stronger and stronger resentment the "nicer" you treat them. It's some hard stuff that we need to be aware of.

I'd love to treat my lady like a million bucks and pour out my heart, knowing I'm going to get it back and then some when she desires to do so. The thing about it in this world, many people look out for themself and do the bare minimum for those next to or around them. So I know I can't do that for everyone. With the right lady though, it's great.

Kindest regards.


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## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

I've been reading through these replies. Thanks, there's plenty of food for thought. 

I was very ill a few months back, and my partner had to look after me. This has caused me to feel a great deal of guilt. Also, the fact that everyone always tells me how great he is and how lucky I am doesn't help.

He started to seem distant, so I made extra effort to try and make him happy and get things back to the way we were. Not just behavioural nice things, but practical stuff, like paying for work that needs doing on the house, holiday etc. 

This morning, it really hit me that he probably doesn't respect me. He was very patronising. I snapped at him, and then when I said that I realised I had been a bit snappy, he just blanked me. 

So, ***k him. He may be this "super great guy", but it's not like he pees rainbows and s**ts unicorns. He is no better than me! 

As you can tell, the incident made me feel 

The question is, how do I proceed?


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Set up a time where the two of you can talk calmly without distraction (kids, phones, etc). 

Talk clearly and calmly and say that there have been some things really bothering you and that you'd like to talk about them. Then explain that when he does 'x', it makes you feel 'y'. 

Avoid always and never and accusatory statements. Give examples. Also, own the fault of the fact that you've not told him about this and that it was wrong.

Ask him what things you can do differently/better to make him happier in the marriage.

Keep the focus on the fact that you love him and WANT this to work.


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## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks Redhead. That sounds very sensible. 

I'll give it a go.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Oh, one small item - I would focus one 1 or 2 bigger items that bug you and not make this a laundry list of everything all at once. 

Then, check in once a month, see how he's feeling and what he's thinking and you do the same with him. 

If you're having trouble getting the dialogue started, a good MC can work wonders.


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## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

OK, thanks. I can see how launching into a long list of complaints would make things worse. 

I'm going to choose a couple of points and try to deal with those.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm crossing my fingers for you!!!


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## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

WellyVamp said:


> I would like to ask people a question.
> 
> There's a lot on here about nice guys, but is there a female equivalent?
> 
> ...


Interesting, I took this quarry to be the classic *Ginger v. Mary Ann* dichotomy.

I’m a *Mary Ann* kinda’ guy.


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## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

Hi there RedHead, sorry to revive ths old thread, but I've been working on my problems.

It's getting better, albeit slowly. Now, if I could get a bit more sex I would be happy!


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Yay!!! I'm so glad to hear you're making progress! 

Next up on the agenda - more sex! Do you initiate?


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## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

I do innitiate, but he is only up for it when he wants it. I keep reading about people getting their T checked, but we don't really have that in the UK, men over 40 get viagra on prescription as far as I know!

My teenage son prefers to stay in and have his mates over at the moment. All of his best friends are girls (he is gay), so he can't stay over at their houses. So, my partner and I hardly ever have a chance to get freaky at the moment.

I have lost weight recently, started exercising, got a new hair cut, sexy stuff to wear in bed etc. I get it 3 times a week. It's usually same old same old and is over in 5 mins. My partner doesn't like to make sure that I'm finished off once "the horse has bolted". 

I've got the toys and handcuffs out this week, but I would like to do more. 

He has just turned 40. When we first met 6 years ago, I think our record was 5 times in one day. Now he reckons it's hard (sorry - no pun intended) to manage it twice a day. He says it gets harder to go again (or not) for men, as they get older. 

I think about sex all the time and it's getting really bad!


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

I guess it depends on the definition. My wife is loving, kind, generous, rarely angry, very unselfish and giving, and very easy to live with. She does not need much to make her happy. She is not a drama queen. She is about as perfect as they come. 

BUT...she is not a pushover. She can be assertive, she knows what she wants, and she will state her case strongly and logically (she should have been an attorney). 

She is the perfect combination of both as far as I am concerned. What men don't want is needy or someone who can't stand up for themselves.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Thor said:


> Perhaps you don't really understand the pathological Nice Guy. He is not Nice as in pleasant and polite. He is Nice as in pathologically self sacrificing. He puts everybody else ahead of himself. He tries to please everybody. He tries to appear perfect so that he won't be repulsive. He desperately craves approval from everyone else. He resorts to sneaky manipulations to get what he wants while at the same time trying to appear as if he does not need anything.
> 
> A woman can have all of these qualities too. In some ways there will be differences, notably around sex. The woman will try to appear chaste and demur despite her real history. *Whereas the man probably has some serious toxic shame around sex, so he tries to appear sexual but in real life he is afraid of sex.*
> 
> Yes it will turn off men when they figure out what is going on with a Nice Gal.


That could be the problem with the guy I was dating from 2004 to 2006. He was just weird about sex. I also noticed that people would joke about how self-effacing he was. But I did get the sense that he was trying to take over my life (ie, like asking to move in with me while putting it around that he was on the marriage track). 

So eager to please on the street but me me me behind closed doors.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Oh yes...and she is cute too!!,


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> I'm not saying nice girls can't be appreciated, but personally they become like little sisters/friendzoned, for me anyways. But all they are lacking is just some backbone and the ability to say no / be assertive / refuse to be taken advantage of.
> 
> *If they can just know when to be nice and when to stand up for themselves, nice girls are perfect*. Alas, most people just don't change, at least not easily. If she can't stand for herself I can't rely on her to stand for me or our relationship if the time comes and the push comes to shove.
> 
> ...


Give some examples of someone you think is nice and continued to think so who stood up for herself.

I'm assuming you mean, for example:
1. When a guy claims he forgot his wallet
2. When she's being offered a lat minute date
3. When her boyfriend introduces her to a "close" (female) friend

or any other scenario.

I have made some feisty moves in the pst. Funny, I was told if I did, I would regret it and well, looking back, I have no regrets at all.

I just wish that I was I were feisty more often..... which is why I want to read more examples of it.


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