# LRT meant to bring WAW back or... quite the opposite?



## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

While reading another thread yesterday -one spouse virtually gone and set on divorce, the other wanting to do anything to prevent this- the typical advice was given by well meaning posters.

Y'all know what I'm talking about.

One of the most comprehensive lists of what to do and what not is based loosely on Michelle Weiner Davis' DivorceBusting methods and you can find it on the forum with the same name.

This is actually good stuff. It certainly helped me when I was on the receiving end of a WAW-situation and it got me back on track in a matter of months. Call me the poster boy of the Last Resort Technique if you will cause I followed everyone of those rules. To a t.

Did it bring WAW back? Apparently not.

Were there signs? Not that I've noticed. Then again, while you're applying the above mentioned advices (with success), you don't notice a lot anymore because too involved in own things/new life and, frankly, you don't give a rat's ass about what your ex wants or not. And she was/is a terrible communicator to begin with so actually, I don't have a clue.

So sometimes I wonder if this strategy ever works anyway (as for bringing ex back) or that it's even meant to... Maybe it is only a clever ruse to help the LBS back on the horse that is life in the fastest possible way?

I'll see whether I can make a case for this in my next post.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

So here comes the the list of do's and donts in question.

Now ask yourself with every rule... is it more likely that it will bring your wife back?

Or will you alienate yourself more from her by applying it? And doing so, somehow making yourself into a WAS... ready to take on the world, new and better relationships etc...

Wouldn't that be ironic?

So here goes. Personal comments in red.

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!It would turn other women off. And no reasoning with the wife people!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.Yup. Alienate wife by communicating as little as possible. And then you hang up.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!No marriage books for your wife. God forbid, she might learn something.

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.Even better: stay away from her all together.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.No future for you. Courtesy of the Sex Pistols.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.Get NO help. Nice.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.Sexy as hell to other women you mean.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". Another love language bites the dust.

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. And another one.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)Only distracts you from your real mission: getting out yourself.

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)Never say ILY to somebody you're not supposed to love.

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.She will probably ridicule it anyway. But other women WILL notice!

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband... Yeah get away from wife and meet some new specimens.

15. When at home with your spouse, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Scarcity of words. Yup.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.Behave as independently as possible.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.Oh you are! Without that is.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
Remember you're doing this for you, not her.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.Act happy. She's leaving you.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.No talk of marriage when it's in danger. Makes sense.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.Heaven forbid, this may lead to communication. Run!

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Don't argue at all. Told you already.

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!No it won't. Pull back enough and YOU will be gone, that's what.

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.Spouse says she's out and wants a divorce. Listen to her. She means it.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).Walk away.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.Exactly.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.And for next relationships.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.Had that one already.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.So you listen at last and anything she says you consider a lie.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.No contact.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.Better to drink at home.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes
_________________________



So what do you think?

Are these rules REALLY meant to lure the WAS back? And does that ever work anyway?

Or do they produce quite the opposite effect, i.e. alienate the LBS from his WAS so he'll be back in the saddle as fast as possible (and there's all kind of saddles around )?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

WAW is walk away wife? I've been in a WAW shoes and most of those things would not have worked and would have just pushed me further away. At that point him going out somewhere was a relief, I liked being alone. I wasn't worried about him meeting someone else or just move on happily, it would have actually made me feel better in a way. I didn't want him to be sad and alone, I didn't hate him and want to punish him. I just didn't feel love. 

I wanted love and attention, to feel pursued and wanted. Date me, work to keep me. Do nice things for me. Start doing the things I used to b*tch about. Show me that you give a crap if I'm here or not. Show me what the relationship would look like if I changed my mind, which if it looked like a lot of those points I'd be gone. 

I think these ideas would work on some very specific types of relationships but I think a lot of women who just want to leave feel like they have been taken for granted, they are not paid enough attention and love and they desperately want more. 

Seeing that their husbands are fine and will move on might give them a sudden jolt of fear and back-peddle but how long until they work up the courage again? Fix the problems and the reasons she wanted to walk-away and keep those changes and she'll be more likely to be happy about her choice IMO


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

That is EXACTLY my point SGC!

If your ex would have applied those techniques, you would actually have felt better cause you didn't want to see him unhappy... but it would not have prevented you from walking away. On the contrary.

Tx for your invaluable insight... maybe we should be more careful before advising others to take this road.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

This worked for me so far. Many people look at the 180 and say it won't work. So far it's worked on my wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

He's not my ex because he decided to wake the F up and start showing me how much he wanted me and fought for me back.

Now, it is not perfect and we are still working but he showed me enough effort and attention that I was willing to try again.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He's not my ex because he decided to wake the F up and start showing me how much he wanted me and fought for me back.
> 
> Now, it is not perfect and we are still working but he showed me enough effort and attention that I was willing to try again.


I stand corrected.

Best of luck to you guys and stay the course :smthumbup:

How far were you out the door and what did your husband do exactly that made you turn around?


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Fordsvt said:


> This worked for me so far. Many people look at the 180 and say it won't work. So far it's worked on my wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This stuff is being advised VERY often, here on TAM and elsewhere... even NMMNG and the likes are variations on the theme IMO.

Not to mention the "get a V-shaped torso and that will solve all your problems". Sure it will.

But glad that it works for you (or did you mean: SHE has done the 180 and now you're drawn to her again )

How do you realize it's working? If it did in my case, I must have missed the clues. Then again, I tend to do that.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

EasyPartner said:


> I stand corrected.
> 
> Best of luck to you guys and stay the course :smthumbup:
> 
> How far were you out the door and what did your husband do exactly that made you turn around?


I had given up for a long time but he didn't really know how much until I kicked him out so he was out the door.

Specific things he did was come over a couple times a week and have a dinner date away from the TVs and computers. Just talk to me, listen, acknowledge and apologize.
He would call me during the day to say I love you, call me every night just because he wanted to talk.
We would laugh about the fun times in the past.
He started coming over to do some chores and would go grocery shopping with me (something I was upset about before) and fix things that were on his 'to do' list for a while.
He took us out for family time, stuff that we had always said "we should do X" but never got around to it. 

He also made realistic promises about what could be changed and was clear that he wanted me and would work to keep me.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

I guess I am confused. If the list above is truly the Last Resort, that would imply that you have tried everything else. If accurate, it seems to me that would include pursuing and dating and trying to show her you do want her (and many of the other things that Slowly mentioned). But if that has not worked (nor has anything else), you are left with this. 

The unfortunately reality is that in some cases, nothing will work. They just don't want to be married to you any more.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I think people forget that the 180 is supposed to be a 180-degree departure _from whatever you've been doing before_. So, if you've been pursuing your spouse like an abandoned puppy, begging, pleading, being needy, etc., then you stop doing those things and do the opposite. But if you have been ignoring your spouse, taking them for granted, not talking, not pursuing, not communicating, treating them like furniture, etc., then you should_ stop doing those things and do the opposite_. The "get your own life" thing isn't a 180 if you've been living like a single person in your marriage already. 

I think the LRT is very similar. But it will only work to shake up the marriage and entice your spouse to return if it's different from what you've already been doing. If it's just a more extreme form of the life you already had, there's absolutely no reason to think it will do anything other than what preceded it did - drive your spouse away by making them feel alone and unwanted.

And, frankly, there are just some marriages that aren't going to be saved.


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## Pamvhv (Apr 27, 2014)

I'm hoping it works because I'm doing it now.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Mine was saved by doing the 180 and detaching. 
Following the program to the letter. It worked, I'm not saying it always will. It just did for me. We are into month 5 of R now. Still a ways to go here for sure.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I guess I am confused. If the list above is truly the Last Resort, that would imply that you have tried everything else. If accurate, it seems to me that would include pursuing and dating and trying to show her you do want her (and many of the other things that Slowly mentioned). But if that has not worked (nor has anything else), you are left with this.
> 
> The unfortunately reality is that in some cases, nothing will work. They just don't want to be married to you any more.


It wasn't clear to me on the DivorceBusting forum either. Somehow, this advice is given to everyone whose partner has left or is set on separation or divorce.

Pursuing/showing her you want her etc is ALWAYS frowned upon because it's weak and unattractive and that will drive her out even faster. Seen this idea dozens of times on TAM as well.

Maybe the whole 180 advice shouldn't be given so readily, cfr SGC's story.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

EasyPartner said:


> It wasn't clear to me on the DivorceBusting forum either. Somehow, this advice is given to everyone whose partner has left or is set on separation or divorce.
> 
> Pursuing/showing her you want her etc is ALWAYS frowned upon because it's weak and unattractive and that will drive her out even faster. Seen this idea dozens of times on TAM as well.
> 
> Maybe the whole 180 advice shouldn't be given so readily, cfr SGC's story.


I agree. I have seen quite a few times when those kinds of steps are suggested as a first thing, as soon as she says she is done or doesn't love you anymore. If they are meant to try all the loving stuff (and give it some time because it takes a while for them to trust that it is real change and they might resist it) first then that part has been left out of a lot of the advice I have read and should be focused on more.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

EasyPartner said:


> It wasn't clear to me on the DivorceBusting forum either. Somehow, this advice is given to everyone whose partner has left or is set on separation or divorce.


Well that's different. You called in the Last Resort, so it seems to me that you recognized that you should try a bunch of other stuff first.



> Pursuing/showing her you want her etc is ALWAYS frowned upon because it's weak and unattractive and that will drive her out even faster. Seen this idea dozens of times on TAM as well.
> 
> Maybe the whole 180 advice shouldn't be given so readily, cfr SGC's story.


Perhaps, but I think that you are missing the point (I certain think that your description of your implementation indicates you took it to an extreme). 

Part of the point is to show that despite what your spouse is missing, you do add value, and that by removing that, you show what they will be missing. It is also an attempt to steady your emotions, avoid behaviors that turn people off (like begging and pleading) and create some behaviors that are attractive (being happy and pleasant and not reacting to other people's emotions).

I don't subscribe to all the suggestions, but I think there is a lot of good here that is useful, even in a situation like SGC. And while she has her very real perspective, I have seen many others who say that this behavior did wake them up to recognize that maybe trying to work on things was not the worst idea.

The big point I stress is that much of this stuff needs to be done for yourself. Doing it to try and keep your spouse is manipulative. Most folks see it for that and it fails.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Well that's different. You called in the Last Resort, so it seems to me that you recognized that you should try a bunch of other stuff first.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree that a lot of this stuff IS useful and ONLY when it is done with conviction and for yourself.

I know because I did. And I don't think in an extreme fashion (my comments in red were ONLY meant as arguments for the point I was trying to make).

Did it get ME back on track? Bigtime. I can recommend it to everyone who wants to recover from WAW syndrome ASAP.

But does it do what it's cracked up to do on the R front? Meh. Sometimes maybe, there's the off chance she'll miss you and come back. But then again, she may miss you if you don't do anything at all, after separation.

And for what I've seen several times and experienced myself, the approach WILL provide you detachment, make you very independent AND get loads of female attention (which is probably welcomed after x months without). 

This, ironically, diminishes the probability of R. Well at least I think it did in my case.

That is my point.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

From what you have said, EP, your wife just had no more interest in being with you, and doesn't seem to regret her decision. Or maybe she regrets it financially?

What sounds sad to me in your case is how your kids are taking it. And maybe part of you thinks that if you had tried a little bit, maybe your wife could have found a way to stay with you. And then your kids would not be sad now.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

EasyPartner said:


> I agree that a lot of this stuff IS useful and ONLY when it is done with conviction and for yourself.
> 
> I know because I did. And I don't think in an extreme fashion (my comments in red were ONLY meant as arguments for the point I was trying to make).
> 
> ...


It comes down to what is the real goal. If it is to save the relationship above else, then it probably is not the best idea. But I don't think most people have that goal in mind.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Tall Average Guy said:


> It comes down to what is the real goal. If it is to save the relationship above else, then it probably is not the best idea.


:iagree:

The approach should come with a warning label IMO.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

It all depends on how far gone they are.

Sometimes, you doing the 180 is a relief because they are done with you. They don't care if you are moving on or not. Probably makes it easier for them if they see you are moving on.

Sometimes, you doing the 180 shows them what they are walking away from. Jolts them into realizing that they thought they were done with you, but there is actually still love there. 

Either way the 180 is necessary. Gets her back or prepares you for the future.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

EasyPartner said:


> :iagree:
> 
> The approach should come with a warning label IMO.


Why?


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

It would have worked great for me if X had followed the points listed. It would have helped the whole situation not get ugly and our split more peaceful. 

Nothing could bring me back to the relationship.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SadSamIAm said:


> It all depends on how far gone they are.
> 
> Sometimes, you doing the 180 is a relief because they are done with you. They don't care if you are moving on or not. Probably makes it easier for them if they see you are moving on.
> 
> ...


Did you miss SGC's posts earlier saying that more love and attention and affection were what were needed?


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

jld said:


> From what you have said, EP, your wife just had no more interest in being with you, and doesn't seem to regret her decision. Or maybe she regrets it financially?
> 
> What sounds sad to me in your case is how your kids are taking it. And maybe part of you thinks that if you had tried a little bit, maybe your wife could have found a way to stay with you. And then your kids would not be sad now.


A bit off thread, jld, but since you insist.

I think the responsability of the causes of ex walking away are 50/50. She actually agrees with that.

I had my own little MLC about two years back, when I hit a ceiling in my (government employed) career. First time anything like that happened to me, so I wasn't as happy as normal. So I took an alternate path (still government), prestigious and with even better pay but also very difficult and draining.

By the time I got on cruise speed with that (and myself for that matter) I got the ILYB speech and she left shortly after that. During later convo's she stated that she felt taken for granted and "boring" (her, not me, ??) so she should leave while still young and I should get someone else (i.e. more hd).

NB: neither of us were boring by any standard (travel, horses, careers, friends etc) but this was not enough for her. She wanted to lead the life of her 20something colleagues w/o children (clubbing, less money but more freedom etc).

Sometimes I wonder if our lifestyle was too easy also. Not enough challenge.

Does she regret her decision by now? Difficult to say. Telling you, the woman is like a sphynx. She doesn't like gf one bit, that's for sure, but hey.

Do my kids like the situation? Hell no. Neither of us are the abusing or violent type or anything and I think we are pretty good parents, so of course they don't like the breakup. They had it all.

D11 had more problems with it in the beginning but seems to be OK now. S9 only recently came up with negative emotions about it. Other thread.

Do I feel sorry for my kids? Yes.

Could I have done something to stop WAW walking away after the speech? I honestly don't think so. It all happened very fast.

Then I did the LRT thing. 

And the rest is history.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It does sound like water under the bridge now. I'm sorry if my post hurt your feelings.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

jld said:


> It does sound like water under the bridge now. I'm sorry if my post hurt your feelings.


It is. The technique works miracles.

And you didn't hurt my feelings. Comes with detachment


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Why?


The little arrow in my "I agree" is pointing at it


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

jld said:


> I'm sorry if my post hurt your feelings.


You seem to say that a lot. I actually believed it the first time I saw it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> You seem to say that a lot. I actually believed it the first time I saw it.


I would love to hear it from you sometime.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EasyPartner said:


> It is. The technique works miracles.
> 
> And you didn't hurt my feelings. Comes with detachment


I do care about your feelings, EP, but I won't let that keep me from saying something I think is true if I think it could be helpful. 

And detachment is not the same thing as denial.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

jld said:


> I would love to hear it from you sometime.


What I'd love to hear from you sometime is blaming a woman. For anything. And suggesting that a woman should do some work, rather than everything being the man's fault. I realize you can't really see things that way given your daddy daughter type relationship and how it taints your views, but still....that's what I'd love to see sometime.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> What I'd love to hear from you sometime is blaming a woman. For anything. And suggesting that a woman should do some work, rather than everything being the man's fault. I realize you can't really see things that way given your daddy daughter type relationship and how it taints your views, but still....that's what I'd love to see sometime.


There is a woman on here that I have told many times to use active listening with her husband. Her husband gets pummeled repeatedly on these boards, but I don't think he would be hard to deal with at all. She just needs to stay in the room, answer him honestly, openly, and respectfully, and he would be just fine. And the one time she did listen to me, she reported back that he was more affectionate than ever.

And when another woman complained that she did not get the birthday gift she wanted, I told her to go and give her SO a big hug and thank him for the gift, and tell him she was sorry she had not been more grateful.

Do you realize there are women here who think the opposite about me that you do? They think I defend men and put down women. I can't win.

And WOM, my husband tells me he is "fully satisfied" with me. Do you think that is by accident, or that he is, by himself, doing everything to make this marriage harmonious?


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## bobbieb65 (Jan 24, 2013)

@EasyP, another potential WAW here and I will tell you none of the LRT or any other "how to" would work on me or for me. Do people not get it...EVERYONE AND EVERY RELATIONSHIP IS DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE. There is no one size fits all and you most tailor your own. 

The H and I have been through a lot over the last almost 24 years together. The past 3 have had me reflecting on the first 21 and trying to decide if I want to continue. I was ready to walk 3 years ago and I still have days now when I'm not sure...keeping one foot in the door. The only thing that kept me from leaving was MC...which was my idea. 

If your W is not happy, that is not your fault. If she doesn't love you anymore, still not your fault. If she entered the M unsure of who she was or what she wanted, it's her bad. If you cheated, ignored her pleas for attention, or were so selfish you couldn't be bothered, that's my dear is on you.

If she's so checked out and too far gone that she won't go to MC or you have gone and it hasn't help, it's too late. Let her go.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

removed. I'm not going to threadjack. OP good luck. Careful who you listen to.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I know a dozen women here who think of you the same way I do.
> 
> I'm sure your husband likes you just fine. He gets you in small doses and you look to him like a father figure. How often do you see him? 8 days a month?


Why so unkind, WOM? 

We have been together 21 years. We have had maybe 3 years that due to his work, we have not lived together. It is not by choice.

He loves me very much, WOM. And I respect him very much. And he feels honored by the way I feel about him.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

jld said:


> I do care about your feelings, EP, but I won't let that keep me from saying something I think is true if I think it could be helpful.
> 
> And detachment is not the same thing as denial.


Uh... denial of what exactly jld?

I do own my part in this, already told you. 

If we, especially her, would have communicated properly, I may very well have done something about it. Both conflict avoiders, a model that worked for a long time very well actually. Since then i upgraded myself to a validator 

I was the one who proposed MC, to no good. By Jove, talking to a stranger, about her feelings??? Nah.

So i did what i could, i really did given the circumstances. But the call of the greener grass was too strong for her.

And then i did the LRT, which probably nailed the coffin shut for both of us.

Just don't tell me I'm in denial.

I am not.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Well for me she gave me the speech of ILYBINILWY because she felt that way at the time. I had a porn issue and she figured it out. The sites, chat rooms etc... but didn't confront me when she found it. She carried it like baggage first for months then dropped the bomb. I knew something was up.

At the time she claimed she was done. So I suggested MC and we agreed. By Nov I wanted out as I figured out her EA (5 weeks long) on Oct 7th and told her I was gone by the end of Jan. At this time I did a hard 180 from Oct to Dec. I guess it worked cause Dec 15th she asked me to stay and try to repair us. So I did. Here we are in month 5 of R. Yes the 180 worked for me but will we make it all work-not sure....I think we can do it.

How much time do you guys think it will take? How long do I wait.?? I told her a month ago I'm not staying in a sexless marriage like before. Either we make it work for both of us or she has to let me go.:scratchhead:


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Fordsvt said:


> Well for me she gave me the speech of ILYBINILWY because she felt that way at the time. I had a porn issue and she figured it out. The sites, chat rooms etc... but didn't confront me when she found it. She carried it like baggage first for months then dropped the bomb. I knew something was up.
> 
> At the time she claimed she was done. So I suggested MC and we agreed. By Nov I wanted out as I figured out her EA (5 weeks long) on Oct 7th and told her I was gone by the end of Jan. At this time I did a hard 180 from Oct to Dec. I guess it worked cause Dec 15th she asked me to stay and try to repair us. So I did. Here we are in month 5 of R. Yes the 180 worked for me but will we make it all work-not sure....I think we can do it.
> 
> How much time do you guys think it will take? How long do I wait.?? I told her a month ago I'm not staying in a sexless marriage like before. Either we make it work for both of us or she has to let me go.:scratchhead:


Sorry man, if you're not having sex with her then you are not in month 5 of R. You're still in limbo and she's still being faithful to the OM. Reconciliation doesn't start until you're intimate again. IMO you're wasting your time. She probably had some other motive for wanting to stay together. The house, the kids, the paycheck....who knows.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Rowan said:


> I think people forget that the 180 is supposed to be a 180-degree departure _from whatever you've been doing before_. So, if you've been pursuing your spouse like an abandoned puppy, begging, pleading, being needy, etc., then you stop doing those things and do the opposite. But if you have been ignoring your spouse, taking them for granted, not talking, not pursuing, not communicating, treating them like furniture, etc., then you should_ stop doing those things and do the opposite_. The "get your own life" thing isn't a 180 if you've been living like a single person in your marriage already.
> 
> I think the LRT is very similar. But it will only work to shake up the marriage and entice your spouse to return if it's different from what you've already been doing. If it's just a more extreme form of the life you already had, there's absolutely no reason to think it will do anything other than what preceded it did - drive your spouse away by making them feel alone and unwanted.
> 
> And, frankly, there are just some marriages that aren't going to be saved.


some marriages aren't worth saving. Some WAS aren't worth keeping.

Also, there's a difference between "I don't love you any more and I'm done" and "I don't love you, but I want that back......." if the WAS has basically declared the marriage over, they have no right to expect any salvaging effort from the other spouse. The other spouse has a right to maintain their dignity and not chase an uninterested partner.

If there's no cheating involved on either side, I also wonder in what % of cases the issue lies with the 'non-walking' vs the WAS. take the example of a WAW. looking from the outside it wouldn't be clear to me whether the husband had been abusive or emotionally or sexually withdrew from her - 
or if the WAW herself was the one who had withdrawn first, in response to the stress and challenges of normal life, or perhaps the love the WAW had for her husband was always rather shallow...never well grounded in the first place.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

EasyPartner said:


> Uh... denial of what exactly jld?
> 
> I do own my part in this, already told you.
> 
> ...


EP

your X sounds about as 'deep' as a mud puddle. I bet you do better in the next round......


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Fordsvt said:


> Well for me she gave me the speech of ILYBINILWY because she felt that way at the time. I had a porn issue and she figured it out. The sites, chat rooms etc... but didn't confront me when she found it. She carried it like baggage first for months then dropped the bomb. I knew something was up.
> 
> At the time she claimed she was done. So I suggested MC and we agreed. By Nov I wanted out as I figured out her EA (5 weeks long) on Oct 7th and told her I was gone by the end of Jan. At this time I did a hard 180 from Oct to Dec. I guess it worked cause Dec 15th she asked me to stay and try to repair us. So I did. Here we are in month 5 of R. Yes the 180 worked for me but will we make it all work-not sure....I think we can do it.
> 
> How much time do you guys think it will take? How long do I wait.?? I told her a month ago I'm not staying in a sexless marriage like before. Either we make it work for both of us or she has to let me go.:scratchhead:


you were in a sexless marriage but your use of porn upset her? or was it causal in the other direction?


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

We were in a slow sex marriage. The porn thing really hurt her bad. But jan feb lots of sex. March two times. Since then nothing. So two months so far. 
She says she needs time to sort her emotions out. Not sure but I'm not going to dog her for sex. We went to Cancun in Feb alone as well and had a great time. The EA is done I know for sure. I know reading the MMSLP it claims it can take a year or two to get back on track.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Fordsvt said:


> We were in a slow sex marriage. The porn thing really hurt her bad. But jan feb lots of sex. March two times. Since then nothing. So two months so far.
> She says she needs time to sort her emotions out. Not sure but I'm not going to dog her for sex. We went to Cancun in Feb alone as well and had a great time. The EA is done I know for sure. I know reading the MMSLP it claims it can take a year or two to get back on track.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I couldn't make it all the way through MMSLP, I thought it was stupid but are you making sure that all her EN are met? And not in a "duty" way but enthusiastically and without having to be nagged about it? 
Asking her what she wants you to do and doing it?
I think it takes a while of that to trust that it will stick and let your guard down again.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Yes I am meeting her five ENs. Read the book as well. 
She seems happy. Way more than before. We do date nights go out and it's not duty for me either. She seems shocked how much I've changed. Perhaps she's waiting to see if it will last. I think that's a big part. Actions speak louder than words.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Fordsvt said:


> Actions speak louder than words.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You can say that again. And her actions speak volumes.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Fordsvt said:


> Yes I am meeting her five ENs. Read the book as well.
> She seems happy. Way more than before. We do date nights go out and it's not duty for me either. She seems shocked how much I've changed. Perhaps she's waiting to see if it will last. I think that's a big part. Actions speak louder than words.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm getting just a little confused. Using your terms she cheated on you (emotional). Is she changing any of her actions?
Also, you know that her affair never got physical because....why?
Just wondering


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

:rofl:

2galsmom, you mean you did everything RIGHT according to MARRIAGE busters 

I see what you mean tho... if they are dead set on leaving for whatever reason, NOTHING you do seems to make a difference in most cases.

So, after the usual crap everybody pulls in the early stages -you and me both sister- you might as well do the LRT.

Does it do any good to the relationship? Hell no.

Does it get YOU back on track? If executed well, absolutely 

Just thought people had to know this, hence the thread.

BTW, you seem like a really fun person. Skrew the dumb ass that left you


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

The EA lives 1200 miles away. Quite sure nothing major happened there. I confronted the clown on the phone too. What a goof 
Funny thing is she asked me to stay. Now no sex for two months. Females can be tough to figure out for sure. LoL.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

nuclearnightmare said:


> I'm getting just a little confused. Using your terms she cheated on you (emotional). Is she changing any of her actions?
> Also, you know that her affair never got physical because....why?
> Just wondering


She has changed her actions as well. We have done MC for six months. It went well I think we both learned a lot. I'm still running my MAP harder than ever. I'm enjoying it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"Does it get YOU back on track? If executed well, absolutely".

This is the one and only point of the 180. The 180 was never about getting the walk-away spouse back. It was always about the LBS.

Some of divorcebusters techniques smack of the "meet him at the front door wearing nothing but an apron, highheels and a smile" garbage. If advice sounds off kilter to you, don't follow it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Fordsvt said:


> Yes I am meeting her five ENs. Read the book as well.
> She seems happy. Way more than before. We do date nights go out and it's not duty for me either. She seems shocked how much I've changed. Perhaps she's waiting to see if it will last. I think that's a big part. Actions speak louder than words.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You should look up road scholar's thread and read it. Stopping sex is a big sign you are in a false reconcilliation. His sexless five mo R was false because the affair went underground.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> "Does it get YOU back on track? If executed well, absolutely".
> 
> This is the one and only point of the 180. The 180 was never about getting the walk-away spouse back. It was always about the LBS.
> 
> Some of divorcebusters techniques smack of the "meet him at the front door wearing nothing but an apron, highheels and a smile" garbage. If advice sounds off kilter to you, don't follow it.


I try to always warn people the 180 was not designed o win a spouse back but to get over a cheating spouse and move on. Of course many who recommend it do not know that. Others simply recommend it thinking a awayward spouse should just be dumped.

The 180 does bring some waywards back. But that's just the ones that realize the loyal spouse isn't going to be plan b anymore and they realize what they are losing, can't stand being dumped, want what they ant have, etc.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> I try to always warn people the 180 was not designed o win a spouse back but to get over a cheating spouse and move on. Of course many who recommend it do not know that. Others simply recommend it thinking a awayward spouse should just be dumped.
> 
> The 180 does bring some waywards back. But that's just the ones that realize the loyal spouse isn't going to be plan b anymore and they realize what they are losing, can't stand being dumped, want what they ant have, etc.


I am going to state this and see what happens. 

THE 180 IS A WAY FOR DUMPING YOUR SPOUSE.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

EasyPartner said:


> I am going to state this and see what happens.
> 
> THE 180 IS A WAY FOR DUMPING YOUR SPOUSE.


 Well, it would work in most cases. But its for getting over a spouse that's done you wrong as they say in country music. Some times, when they see you don't need them anymore, they decide they want you back.

Getting the ILYBNILWY, basically just going through the motions of MC and rushing to get out of the marriage, points hard at their being a third party involved. Did you ever check to see if that might be the case?


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Getting the ILYBNILWY, basically just going through the motions of MC and rushing to get out of the marriage, points hard at their being a third party involved. Did you ever check to see if that might be the case?


Nah, no PA at all at the time. Then again, who cares. If they want out, they are out.

Been confronted with the mind of a WS myself by now (not gf btw).. Trust me, cheating is just a symptom, in most cases.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Chaparral said:


> You should look up road scholar's thread and read it. Stopping sex is a big sign you are in a false reconcilliation. His sexless five mo R was false because the affair went underground.


Not to disagree but the EA is done. We had lots of sex Dec Jan Feb then March a few times. She went on the pill for her cramps and menstral issues. Since then it been zero drive from her. She says she is fine just not feeling it right now. I have access to her phone and email also FB. She's hardly on her phone. We had a great weekend together too. So I'm ruling out an affair right now. She has been getting more touchy and receptive in the last week. Still running my Map hard as ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Fordsvt said:


> Not to disagree but the EA is done. We had lots of sex Dec Jan Feb then March a few times. She went on the pill for her cramps and menstral issues. Since then it been zero drive from her. She says she is fine just not feeling it right now. I have access to her phone and email also FB. She's hardly on her phone. We had a great weekend together too. So I'm ruling out an affair right now. She has been getting more touchy and receptive in the last week. Still running my Map hard as ever.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm getting the impression (and I could be wrong.....i.e. not being rhetorical)...hmmmmm
well, did/does your wife consider use of porn to be "cheating", and therefore she felt justified in starting a (albeit emotional) relationship with another man?? I guess it could depend whether the porn habit included real-time connection with people. I.e. was this a kind of "revenge affair" by her?


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

It's quite possible it was a revenge thing in her mind. I've thought this too. Yes she feels the porn thing was cheating. But I think all that noise is gone. 
We had great sex last night she initiated too. We are just working on us right now. She seems to be much better spirits of late with everything. So it's progress. 

I do see now what that emotional fog is about during an EA or PA. It took time to get past that. It's no myth about what attention from another sex does to a person when they feel lonely down and mixed up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

EasyPartner said:


> Nah, no PA at all at the time. Then again, who cares. If they want out, they are out.
> 
> Been confronted with the mind of a WS myself by now (not gf btw).. Trust me, cheating is just a symptom, in most cases.


Yes - I agree. Our MC said the same thing. Just a symptom of much bigger issues in the whole picture.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Fordsvt said:


> Just a symptom of much bigger issues in the whole picture.


I agree with this for women. For men, I have read that they can be very happy with their wives and still cheat.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

jld said:


> I agree with this for women. For men, I have read that they can be very happy with their wives and still cheat.


MASSIVE generalization IMO.

The few men I know that cheated on their wives had serious marital problems at the time.

Only one claims he did it only out of lust while he was stationed over seas and with a prostitute.

Maybe in the old days this was more the case, IDK.

You should start a thread on this jld... see you have a case here.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I think the reasons for cheating are the same for men and women. If you google reasons for infidelity, pretty much everyone comes up with the same reasons.

70-75 % of men and women say the would like to cheat if they knew they wouldn't get caught. Lol, I think that's why alcholol works so well,.it reduces brain power.

Women like to claim emotional reasons for cheating. I think that's just a worn out excuse. Its biology and a lack of morals/character combined.

The sad news is that 80% of those cheated on never find out and that half those people that would cheat if they knew they wouldn't get caught do end up cheating.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

EasyPartner said:


> MASSIVE generalization IMO.
> 
> The few men I know that cheated on their wives had serious marital problems at the time.
> 
> ...


Are you now seeing a trend that men who marry just want someone who won't lie to them, will treat them good and cherish them? That they aren't cheating on a good thing like before?

My generation was the last generation of New Jack City and the such where you could have more than you needed, and the greed would lead you to lust after others, because the rest of the world was doing the same thing.

I was cheating when Clinton, Jordon and Jess Jackson was doing it and any many worth his salt could pull side babes. 

I got out of it around 2002, when I realized how much I had hurt my wife and never wanted to hurt nobody like that again.

The funny thing about the ying/yang balance and kharma is that if your too good you will be cheated on, if you are kinda bad and mostly good you just may not.

Some times some of us men have to do things we really don't want to do to maintain the balance.

Of course full out cheating and disregarding your wife is hurtful and your hurting someones daughter, someones sister and someones friend.


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