# Am I out of line?



## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

I am currently struggling with a lack of boundaries between my husband and his sister to the point where I feel like I am simply a roommate. While I always consult my husband before making any big decisions, he does not actively reciprocate. In addition to the lack of communication, he is unwilling to set boundaries with his sister. He is still on a phone plan with his sister and her husband, tried to get her to co-sign a loan, and other petty things that I find so strange. I feel like these are things that should be handled together as a family unit with your spouse, not a sibling.

Our recent huge blowup happened after he encouraged his sister to buy a lot of land literally two houses down from where we are building our new home without discussing it with me prior. The part that makes me most angry is the fact that I was at home with our toddler while he showed them our recent lot purchase....which resulted in them meeting with a salesman and also purchasing a lot within walking distance. I feel like I am living an awful sitcom and unheard in my own household. When I tried to discuss this issue with my husband, he blew up and said I was being selfish for not being okay with the situation and that I was ruining his experience. Though I am angry about the distance, I am more upset about the lack of communication and caring about my perspective seeing as this affects both of us. To make matters worse, the sister and I do not have a good relationship. She showed up to my labor uninvited and would not leave, tried to host a birthday party for my husband on Christmas day (pissed when I told her to stop), and is manipulative if she does not get exactly what she wants. 

Am I crazy for thinking this relationship is weird and being pissed about the lot purchase? I know we all have different perspectives, but this feels insane. I am trying to push for marriage counseling, but I would love advice around how to navigate this problem in our marriage.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Since he blows up when you try to talk with him about what you perceive as problems in the marriage, I'd suggest that you find a good marriage counselor (MC) and bring up those issues in the sessions. He obviously needs the perspective of another adult and needs to learn some rules about how to conduct himself in a marriage.

I do agree that he should discuss things with you. Telling his sister to buy land 2 houses a down from yours without first asking you if you mind if he tells her it is still available for purchase is definitely leaving you out.

You are not going to ever not have her in your life, if that is what you want. He should not be expected to not interact with his sister. 
However the two of you might work out some healthy boundaries so that their relationship doesn't step on your marriage.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Adelais said:


> Since he blows up when you try to talk with him about what you perceive as problems in the marriage, I'd suggest that you find a good marriage counselor (MC) and bring up those issues in the sessions. He obviously needs the perspective of another adult and needs to learn some rules about how to conduct himself in a marriage.
> 
> I do agree that he should discuss things with you. Telling his sister to buy land 2 houses a down from yours without first asking you if you mind if he tells her it is still available for purchase is definitely leaving you out.
> 
> ...


I agree we need MC. He is an immovable object when it comes to this topic but I guess I need to keep pushing. I have requested MC for about a year now and always end up agreeing to "try a podcast", which never happened. When he blew up on me he said he felt like I am "taking it away" from him, so I know whatever my approach was made him recoil and feel defensive. I have no idea how to talk to him like a team on this because I feel like the third-wheel already. How do I make him understand I want us BOTH to be happy but to be reasonable with boundaries?

To clarify, I would never push her out. I have always known how close they are and even had her stand as a bridesmaid in our wedding. I am always cordial but the relationship is not what it used to be. I also love the idea of him having family closer, but not in our backyard. I also realize half of my problems with his sister would be resolved if my husband established boundaries. I think it is just easier for me to place my blame on her since it is so draining fighting about it in my home.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Question is your husband's good in everything else not involving his sis?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

How about you find a live MC and set up an appointment at a time that you know will be convenient for him. Then you tell him that you made an appointment and expect him to be there if he values his marriage.

Seriously, your marriage doesn't have a chance of lasting if he constantly makes decisions without getting your input. You will only become more unhappy over time until the point you and he are both miserable, if you aren't already.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> Question is your husband's good in everything else not involving his sis?


Do you mean regarding communication and including me in decisions? If so, not really. He acknowledges that he could be better at compromise and teamwork, but we generally have to fight if a situation requires any give from his side. We are only 2.5 years into marriage and I am aware marriage is HARD, but I know the way I communicate makes him feel defensive and like he will "lose the match" if he gives an inch. I know its worth the fight but I am getting tired.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Adelais said:


> How about you find a live MC and set up an appointment at a time that you know will be convenient for him. Then you tell him that you made an appointment and expect him to be there if he values his marriage.
> 
> Seriously, your marriage doesn't have a chance of lasting if he constantly makes decisions without getting your input. You will only become more unhappy over time until the point you and he are both miserable if you aren't already.


Would you suggest waiting until after the holidays? We had a big blowup about three months ago resulting in him promising to do a patience focused podcast after refusing MC. He said if the marriage did not improve in three months (how he spoke with me and his temper) then we would go to therapy, which technically would have started this month. I am realizing I am actually being a lame doormat as I am typing this....since I already should be holding him accountable with his commitments to me. 

I do agree this needs to be fixed early in our marriage. It is really hard not feeling respected and is causing me to feel resentment. I am embarrassed to admit I picked a fight after finding out he made holiday plans with his side of the family without telling me at all. Its not that I am mad about the plans (its their year for Christmas and I love hosting), but I felt like an outside guest when I heard the plans in passing rather than his planning partner.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

moulinyx said:


> Do you mean regarding communication and including me in decisions? If so, not really. He acknowledges that he could be better at compromise and teamwork, but we generally have to fight if a situation requires any give from his side. We are only 2.5 years into marriage and I am aware marriage is HARD, but I know the way I communicate makes him feel defensive and like he will "lose the match" if he gives an inch. I know its worth the fight but I am getting tired.


Thanks, so at only 2.5 yrs marriage should not be that hard. And your H is prideful, was there abuse in his up bringing? If so then just maybe he's on protect mode for his sister. Doesn't mean it's right but maybe you can start from there, in bringing your H slowly to help him release the protection mode. Maybe if your H See's you on his side this could change the dynamics of his resistance to change. Yes he should put you first but sometimes there is so much more behind his reasoning.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> Thanks, so at only 2.5 yrs marriage should not be that hard. And your H is prideful, was there abuse in his up bringing? If so then just maybe he's on protect mode for his sister. Doesn't mean it's right but maybe you can start from there, in bringing your H slowly to help him release the protection mode. Maybe if your H See's you on his side this could change the dynamics of his resistance to change. Yes he should put you first but sometimes there is so much more behind his reasoning.


Really? I was told the first three years are the hardest.

He is prideful, but we have gotten to the point where we come together to makeup regardless of if we have a solution. Speaking to abuse, not physically, but his parents were very neglectful. His sister is 8 years older and did the things parents normally do (got him a car, helped pay for college, etc). Again, while those are very kind things, he doesn't need to continue acting like a child at nearly 30 years old. I cant get over him being on their family phone plan strictly based on principle...its weird. We have the money and have children, yet he doesn't treat our family like a family unit. I know that is not what I should say to him but its therapeutic getting it out :|

I can't tell if he refuses to move forward with me because of being overly attached to his sister or if he resists simply to maintain control.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

No really it's not to be hard at all, the first two years are the honeymoon phase. The dopamine and oxytocin are releasing for bonding. But because his sister took care of him and saved him he believes and knows that bond will not be broken by anyone including you. His age is not a factor because of what she did for him supercedes mostly all this except self survival.

So he is not trying to just to maintain control but, what she did for him as a child he will do for her as a adult. It not about you, so much as it is about survival in his mind.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> No really it's not to be hard at all, the first two years are the honeymoon phase. The dopamine and oxytocin are releasing for bonding. But because his sister took care of him and saved him he believes and knows that bond will not be broken by anyone including you. His age is not a factor because of what she did for him supercedes mostly all this except self survival.
> 
> So he is not trying to just to maintain control but, what she did for him as a child he will do for her as a adult. It not about you, so much as it is about survival in his mind.


Yeah...well I wouldn't call this a honeymoon phase. We have had some great moments but our marriage has certainly been hard. We struggled with intimacy due to low-T (which has greatly improved) for our first year, then I got pregnant....and now the boundary issue. I feel like the missing intimacy really hurt us for a while but improved our ability to talk about needs. 

I think its clear we need marriage counseling for his healing and to help build a stronger foundation. I hate the idea of him feeling like I want to break a bond. I just wish this bond didn't emotionally bleed our marriage and keep us from becoming the united team. It makes me question why he would want to get married if he doesn't want to do basic marital things.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

If you call a MC this week you could schedule the first appointment for after Christmas if you want to wait till after the holiday. At least you'd be on the books.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

moulinyx said:


> We had a big blowup about three months ago resulting in him promising to do a patience focused podcast after refusing MC.


That makes no sense. Listening to a podcast is in no way like going to therapy. Would he try to get fit by listening to a podcast about exercise? And it doesn't even sound as if "patience" is his actual problem. 

My general view is that refusing to go to MC after a partner has requested it, is such a big red flag it's almost reason for divorce. It's a big "**** you". 



> he made holiday plans with his side of the family without telling me at all. Its not that I am mad about the plans (its their year for Christmas and I love hosting), but I felt like an outside guest when I heard the plans in passing


Yes of course. That makes perfect sense.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I think that because of the way he was raised, you are not really dealing with a sister, you are dealing with a mother in law and those are tough. Your husband needs to find the balance between his "mother" and his wife. He's not the first guy to have this problem. 

I do believe marriage counseling is very important for you both at this point. It's good that you acknowledge that your approach to dealing with the issue is not optimal. A counselor can hopefully help you both see what changes you can make to help you work with each other and not against each other. 

If he agreed to counseling after three months than it's time to hold him to that. Be as brutally honest as you can be about it. "I'm afraid our marriage is not going to survive without it." But make sure he knows that you acknowledge there are problems on your side as well. 

If you have another baby, my advice is to tell the sister that she is absolutely NOT invited to the birth and to that end, you have instructed the hospital staff not to allow her in to visit until you give the ok. I keep mothers, mother in laws, sisters, etc at bay all the time. I can't think of anything more rude that barging your way into someone else's birth experience. 

I wish you good luck!!!!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Tell him you can see a marriage counselor or a divorce lawyer.

I know that seems extreme but you need to deal with this now. It may be that he isn't marriage material so better that you find that out now before you waste more of your life on him.

There's no real incentive for him to do much of anything if he thinks you aren't going anywhere. Playing hardball might be your best chance to salvage this.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

A common theme here is “you have to be prepared to lose the marriage in order to save it”
It sounds extreme at this point but i agree with the above mentioned posts.
If he agreed to MC, hold him to it. He was hoping you would forget.
Sounds like he has some issues regarding his upbringing. If those two had to stick together for survival then its a tough bond to break.
On the other hand, please dont think this will get better with time.
Fast forward 20 years and you have children and you are deeply resentful that he did not establish boundaries. Dont do it. Please.
He needs IC as well. Establishing healthy boundaries early on is NOT negotiable.


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## nypsychnurse (Jan 13, 2019)

OP your post sounds hauntingly familiar...only the "sister" in my case was my ex-fiance's adult daughter...
We were together 6 years...engaged for 2.
Their relationship was so strange I couldn't wrap my head around it...He was her best friend...even more so than her fiance...and to him, being a good father to her was #1.
Neither of them had good boundaries and it worsened over time...She imposed herself into all our plans, and he would never say no.
There were other issues but this was the straw that broke the camel's back...
I finally had to walk away...just wish I didn't waste all that time...


Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

moulinyx said:


> I am currently struggling with a lack of boundaries between my husband and his sister to the point where I feel like I am simply a roommate. While I always consult my husband before making any big decisions, he does not actively reciprocate. In addition to the lack of communication, he is unwilling to set boundaries with his sister. He is still on a phone plan with his sister and her husband, tried to get her to co-sign a loan, and other petty things that I find so strange. I feel like these are things that should be handled together as a family unit with your spouse, not a sibling.
> 
> Our recent huge blowup happened after he encouraged his sister to buy a lot of land literally two houses down from where we are building our new home without discussing it with me prior. The part that makes me most angry is the fact that I was at home with our toddler while he showed them our recent lot purchase....which resulted in them meeting with a salesman and also purchasing a lot within walking distance. I feel like I am living an awful sitcom and unheard in my own household. When I tried to discuss this issue with my husband, he blew up and said I was being selfish for not being okay with the situation and that I was ruining his experience. Though I am angry about the distance, I am more upset about the lack of communication and caring about my perspective seeing as this affects both of us. To make matters worse, the sister and I do not have a good relationship. She showed up to my labor uninvited and would not leave, tried to host a birthday party for my husband on Christmas day (pissed when I told her to stop), and is manipulative if she does not get exactly what she wants.
> 
> Am I crazy for thinking this relationship is weird and being pissed about the lot purchase? I know we all have different perspectives, but this feels insane. I am trying to push for marriage counseling, but I would love advice around how to navigate this problem in our marriage.


Here's the cold hard truth.
The only thing you are going to change is yourself and how you react to the situation.
MC or not. I would not recommend MC in your case. I've been to several.
IC yes. You work on you and let the chips fall where they may. It's all you can do anyway. 
Have a clear precise idea and path to where you are going. 
There's an old adage that comes to mind "Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it."
Understand the consequences of your actions. 
Take action with determination and virtue. 
Have a clear idea of where you are, and what your options for future relationships will be, going forward. 
Think long term.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It looks like you're just the brood mare and his sister is his wife. He will never willingly cut those apron strings.

I'd be damned if I would cook for that witch after what she did in your labor. Since you weren't involved in the planning, that must mean that your husband will be doing all of the cooking and entertaining. Actions have consequences.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

moulinyx said:


> Yeah...well I wouldn't call this a honeymoon phase. We have had some great moments but our marriage has certainly been hard. We struggled with intimacy due to low-T (which has greatly improved) for our first year, then I got pregnant....and now the boundary issue. I feel like the missing intimacy really hurt us for a while but improved our ability to talk about needs.
> 
> I think its clear we need marriage counseling for his healing and to help build a stronger foundation. I hate the idea of him feeling like I want to break a bond. I just wish this bond didn't emotionally bleed our marriage and keep us from becoming the united team. It makes me question why he would want to get married if he doesn't want to do basic marital things.


Right, there is the basis for your next move by this reply, you feel as the outsider and resentment has grown and is really big now. No amount of MC is going to change him. MC may help you in accepting your H, dispite of his faults and continued short comings. There is no perfect marriage ever so if you think or believe that you reaching for the unattainable. If someone told you they have the perfect marriage they are full of ****. One will always submit more than the other, but really who wants a wimp of a husband?

But if you! Never really realized this and thought you could change him is now why your besides yourself. And you husband screws up alot and should have respected your wish to remove your sister but it was really the nurses and and dr, who should have enforced your wishes. I am picking up you can not endure this much more so, you should be the one to leave your marriage because it is not what you expected. In your courtship you must have seen these things but ignored the warning signs. And your Husband will not be strong enough to divorce you, and the resentment will continue to grow, and you will continue to get bitter.

No one here on TAM wants or expects you to endure this and you only have 2.5 yrs invested. It is a time for you to make a decision, who cares if you just bought a property, or if you throw the baby card in here it not a way to handle relationships, more of a excuse not to proceed to end the marriage. 

But, if this is the last straw, then so be it. He isn't worth the the deadness you feel. And why drag the baby into hell with both of you.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

notmyjamie said:


> I think that because of the way he was raised, you are not really dealing with a sister, you are dealing with a mother in law and those are tough. Your husband needs to find the balance between his "mother" and his wife. He's not the first guy to have this problem.
> 
> I do believe marriage counseling is very important for you both at this point. It's good that you acknowledge that your approach to dealing with the issue is not optimal. A counselor can hopefully help you both see what changes you can make to help you work with each other and not against each other.
> 
> ...


Yes, she is very similar to an overbearing mother-in-law! I really enjoyed your reply. I do not feel that this is a marriage ender, but it could make things more strained than they need to be. I know the main issue is he does not see what I see because this is his family, so he does not understand why certain things make me feel uncomfortable or walked over. I also fully agree there are areas I need help with but I do not have the tools or direction to do it on my own. I feel like we are speaking two different languages when we fight and it is very hard to find common ground or come to a real resolution. 

Better believe she will not step foot in another delivery room! I didn't even invite my own sisters!


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> Right, there is the basis for your next move by this reply, you feel as the outsider and resentment has grown and is really big now. No amount of MC is going to change him. MC may help you in accepting your H, dispite of his faults and continued short comings. There is no perfect marriage ever so if you think or believe that you reaching for the unattainable. If someone told you they have the perfect marriage they are full of ****. One will always submit more than the other, but really who wants a wimp of a husband?
> 
> But if you! Never really realized this and thought you could change him is now why your besides yourself. And you husband screws up alot and should have respected your wish to remove your sister but it was really the nurses and and dr, who should have enforced your wishes. I am picking up you can not endure this much more so, you should be the one to leave your marriage because it is not what you expected. In your courtship you must have seen these things but ignored the warning signs. And your Husband will not be strong enough to divorce you, and the resentment will continue to grow, and you will continue to get bitter.
> 
> ...


I see what you mean here. My struggle is A) I knew he was stubborn and overly dominant when I married him and B) He does make an effort to meet me in the middle, though his middle leaves a lot to be desired. I know to a certain degree I will always deal with his flaws, just like he has to deal with mine. I agree a whimp of a husband would be horrible, but I wouldn't mind a little more give LOL.

The land thing is really what pushed me over the edge and has made me feel like a sister-wife or business partner. I do feel myself getting bitter and angry, so maybe I need to continue to have conversations about it or take matters into my own hands when it comes to boundaries. I was raised in a family where each spouse dealt with their side of the family when it came to boundaries, but maybe that is not the norm for everyone. 

I am nearing the end of my rope but I still think our relationship is more than worth the fight. Aside from this problem we are having, we really do have a great relationship. I may pick up a book on this topic in the meantime.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> It looks like you're just the brood mare and his sister is his wife. He will never willingly cut those apron strings.
> 
> I'd be damned if I would cook for that witch after what she did in your labor. Since you weren't involved in the planning, that must mean that your husband will be doing all of the cooking and entertaining. Actions have consequences.


You are really speaking to my crazy side, LOL. I do feel like the broodmare! His sister is in a loveless marriage and will not ever have children (though she wants them, but that is a whole different can of worms), so I know a big part of this is my husband not wanting anyone to feel sad. However, the things she wants drain the emotional energy from our marriage. 

Last Thanksgiving she had the nerve to refuse to help prepare a single dish...I wanted to limit her to dinner rolls for the meal.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

StillSearching said:


> Here's the cold hard truth.
> The only thing you are going to change is yourself and how you react to the situation.
> MC or not. I would not recommend MC in your case. I've been to several.
> IC yes. You work on you and let the chips fall where they may. It's all you can do anyway.
> ...


So how would someone change their reaction or just release the resentment? I don't think MC will fix my resentment with the land (since that is done and a whole other issue), but MC would be a good start for neutral discussion for marital expectations moving forward. My husband has literally said he just wants to know exactly what it takes to make us happy. What is IC?


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

aquarius1 said:


> A common theme here is “you have to be prepared to lose the marriage in order to save it”
> It sounds extreme at this point but i agree with the above mentioned posts.
> If he agreed to MC, hold him to it. He was hoping you would forget.
> Sounds like he has some issues regarding his upbringing. If those two had to stick together for survival then its a tough bond to break.
> ...


They for sure have a survival bond, which I dont necessarily want to be broken. I just want to be included or prioritized in other ways. I understand that type of bond due to childhood trauma, but I don't understand ranking another person above a spouse. I agree he was hoping I would give up on MC, but at this point it is more than fair. Another poster suggested making an appointment and telling him it would mean a lot of he showed up. 

One way or another, we will be setting boundaries.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

IC is individual counseling


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## Zing (Nov 15, 2012)

moulinyx said:


> I see what you mean here. My struggle is A)* I knew he was stubborn and overly dominant when I married him and B) He does make an effort to meet me in the middle, though his middle leaves a lot to be desired. I know to a certain degree I will always deal with his flaws, just like he has to deal with mine. I agree a whimp of a husband would be horrible, but I wouldn't mind a little more give LOL.*


I tried so hard not to peep into TAM this morning since I have a lot of work to finish. Read this para and couldn't stop myself.... 

You have described my husband to a T! I love a dominant man... wouldn't have it any other way... and as a romantic, I really like following the traditional set-up, but you've got to be careful what you wish for... it is a delicate balance, and many-a-time those who are naturally dominant can really make their submissive partners feel small (because the other way is literally unthinkable to them). 

As for family dynamic, we share similarities there too - just substitute your SIL with FIL in my case. FIL prided/still prides himself on being the best father he could ever be to his kids and hence feels he has a natural right to be a part and parcel of every single decision they make. We married young, I was super naive then. And damn, my FIL managed to interject himself into outings and decisions where he really had no place being (like when we as newly-weds went lingerie shopping for our honeymoon) because we were kids and would not know which shops would con us while buying bras. :|

FIL is not malicious, but he has such a high opinion of himself and his fatherhood that he treated his kids (read twenty-year-olds) as babies, refusing to let them grow. How did we come out of this circle? Only because my husband put his foot down. My husband is quite independent and had to stay away from his parents (during his early working years) to realise how independent he really is. (For perspective, we come from a traditional society where joint families are still the norm, so an 18-year-old finding a flat for himself would be unheard of.) But things are changing in the current generation, and when his kids started sprouting wings, my FIL couldn't come to terms with them flying off without carrying him along 24/7 too. 

Lots of tears, screams, phone-slamming, dad and son refusing to speak to each other for weeks, emotional manipulation galore (I think I'm going to die this week!) followed. However, till it actually came to a point when FIL realised that if he didn't give an inch he was going to lose his son entirely, the behaviour didn't stop. Ironically though, we had our SIL's support 100% because she was dealing with much the same. Actually, from the sidelines, I felt it was a bit cruel to see the two siblings push him away, but really some of the stuff he's done and said is...  I am so glad my husband's work has brought us to London since, 5000 miles away. Can deal with this level of drama and manipulation for 3 weeks in a year, not more!!! 

Thankfully, I didn't suffer (unlike so many other DILs with dominant in-laws I know of) because my husband always came into marriage believing wife is the NO.1 priority. I was largely left out of the arguments too because I am non-confrontational, don't do drama, and they know their son is a hot-headed stubborn dude who does as he thinks is right. If not, I would have forever carried the black flag on my head as being the "DIL who manipulated their baby into a man and took him away!"

Essentially, in your case, wanting to be a 'man' and making his independent decisions while standing up to his sister, HAS to come from him. You are referring to a personality trait... ultimatums are only temporary fixes, until the next incident pops up. He needs to see the other perspective of his own accord and change because HE wants to. Only then will the overbearing SIL become someone who is a part of your family rather than being the head of your family! Counselling might help. I would advice looking for a male counsellor since this is about gender roles, and leadership, and I can imagine that such advise might sound better coming from an older/wiser man???


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> Tell him you can see a marriage counselor or a divorce lawyer.
> 
> I know that seems extreme but you need to deal with this now. It may be that he isn't marriage material so better that you find that out now before you waste more of your life on him.
> 
> There's no real incentive for him to do much of anything if he thinks you aren't going anywhere. Playing hardball might be your best chance to salvage this.


I wish this advice were true.

By following this advice, two bulls would now live in your house. 
He sporting the real deal, you wearing a strap-on. :grin2:

Your HB is unreasonable, and not at all, caring for your feelings. Standing up to him would make him even more belligerent.

You say he is low T?
It sounds like the opposite. :|

..................................................................................................

If he has been tested as having low T, then he is acting as one sexually frustrated. He knows that you know.

His relationship with his sister is platonic. 
Maybe, that if what he wants. 

Your' being a sexual wife, makes him feel frustrated, with him showing it as dominant anger.

..................................................................................................

It is said that those having an insecurity complex often show themselves the opposite, as one having a superiority state of mind.

To me? He sounds the bully.

................................................................................................

If you have to argue to get his attention, this marriage is worthless. :|

Not only does he 'not' lovingly stroke your body, he does neither this to your mind. :frown2:

..............................................................................................

He enjoys hiding behind his sister's skirt. 
His behavior would worry me. He seems awfully close to her. :surprise:

Seriously.

Ah, are they flesh and blood siblings, or adoptees?
Either way, this relationship sounds..... just off.

...........................................................................................

I would divorce this guy while you are yet young. He does not have your best interests at heart. 
If not, I would secretly *VAR them repeatedly when they are together.

*voice activated recorder. 
A small and easily hidden voice recorder.


You are merely an [AUX] outlet, an accessory in his life.
His sister is the power player, [POWER OUT].

His sister sustains him, you annoy him.
Yuck. :frown2:

......................................................................................

What kind of father is this guy?



THRD-


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Mouliynx.....

The wild cat's mouth. 
Become thy namesake.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Laurentium said:


> That makes no sense. Listening to a podcast is in no way like going to therapy. Would he try to get fit by listening to a podcast about exercise? And it doesn't even sound as if "patience" is his actual problem.
> 
> My general view is that refusing to go to MC after a partner has requested it, is such a big red flag it's almost reason for divorce. It's a big "**** you".
> 
> ...


TBF, I suspect he assumes that the MC will tell the man that he is terrible and everything is his fault without even listening to him. And he is probably right in that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@moulinyx You are correct. This is not a normal situation.

Your husband's attitude is: "I have a family that I love very, very much. 

And, oh, yeah. There's this woman that I married, but she's not that important, so we generally ignore her. Even though we have a child together."

He needs to wake up, grow up and step up. ASAP.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

I really, really appreciate everyone who replied. I have a very positive update!

So a little back story, my husband is a police officer...so a lot of this strife comes from his job and stress. This setup is already tough since I am often lonely and feel like a single mom. Last night we agreed he would not work a double shift and I was SO excited to get some quality time with him tonight. This would have meant he would be awake, possibly initiate some intimacy once our baby is down, etc. Well...he picked up a shift. I absolutely LOST my ****. I did not respond how I should have...but I think a big reaction was necessary. Long story short, he finally admitted he should not have made a different decision after we talked something out together. 

We semi made up on the phone while I was working but when I saw him during lunch I just wanted to scream. I knew he would sleep until this evening (he goes to work around 10pm) and I got angrier and angrier as I started thinking about all of the things I am mad about. We fought again when he woke up but HE AGREED TO MARRIAGE COUNSELING!!! I know this isnt the instant fix but it sure feels good that he is wanting us to work. 

The fight was bad bad, but he did come back after cooling down and said he wants to do whatever it takes to learn how to love me how I need to be loved. He also talked about boundaries with his sister today after my blow up. I guess taking the high road all this time was not the best move! Who would have thought acting like a lunatic would work? I guess crazy needs crazy...lol.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

From what I've seen in my family, I don't think your husband will change.

This kind of situations are very common in other cultures. Very typical in my Hispanic culture for example.

My grandma had a big piece of land, she built a two story apartment building in the back that she rented out to two of her married children and shared some of the front land with another son. They all lived there, two of her children had somewhat boundaries in place, but her youngest son didn't. He was married but spent most of his free time at my grandma's house (he lived in one of the apartments in the back.) She helped him paying some of his bills including phone bills and grocery bills.

My grandma passed away. My uncle is now divorced, he lives in my grandma's house and he's dating a woman that treats him like a child, just like my grandma did when she was alive. His previous wife tried to push him to be more self sufficient and independent. He couldn't handle it. He suffered when my grandma died. My grandma didn't have good boundaries in place with any of her children and it really messed up their personalities and marriages. 

My dad's family was completely different and he my mom moved to another part of town to have privacy and independence. Thank God!!

This is only an example in my family but I know many families have this kind of problem and it never gets solved. If there's no boundaries in place by an authority figure (a parent or older sibling) then there's no example of independence or privacy. They just don't know what it means. 

I'm not sure if a counselor can help him understanding boundaries because of the emotional bond they share. 

I'm sorry you are going through this. I don't want to sound negative but from what I've seen, I don't think your husband can change his relationship with his sister. His sister is always going to be number one to him. You can try MC but don't get your hopes too high. I'm really sorry you're going through this.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> I wish this advice were true.
> 
> By following this advice, two bulls would now live in your house.
> He sporting the real deal, you wearing a strap-on. :grin2:
> ...


I posted an update but you asked a lot of good questions. Honestly, if he wasn't such an amazing father then I wouldn't still be here. Its amazing watching him with our baby without any prompting. He is a fantastic Dad. A big piece of our struggles are attributed to low-T! Our intimacy will improve but he is bad about maintaining the therapy. I know it makes him feel like less of a man knowing he should want things from me but lacks the desire. I have come to grips with that and can love him through it, but I cant settle in the respect/boundary department. I try to be very sensitive to that topic being that he is in such a "manly man" line of work. Oddly enough, low-T causes extreme mood swings and aggression! 

He is a bit of a bully by nature and has a hard time turning it off at home. Again...line of work. 

So he actually did end up talking to his sister today about boundaries and the things I am angry with her about. She wants to have a talk next time they are in town to mend the relationship, so I am trying to see that as an effort to show that I matter as well. And he agreed to going to therapy!!!! After over 2 years of asking for it, I cannot believe its happening. He even said it would probably be good for him to go individually to work on areas he knows need improvement. I am floored.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

moulinyx said:


> ! Who would have thought acting like a lunatic would work? I guess crazy needs crazy...lol.


That's what I told summer, who thread is similar. Some men need action instead of words.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

This all sounds promising.

We, at SunCMars, pray that it is.

How is he managing his low T, if we may ask?
Most OTC supplements likely are worthless for this malady, and pills are toxic to the liver.

Injections will cause those nervous, and touchy symptoms (aggressive), that you describe, but will certainly boost his libido.

............................................................................................................

On his nervousness, what medications does he take, including vitamins?

Could he be considered an alcoholic? Most alcoholics are manageable when they are 'light' drinking but become agitated when they are not. Withdrawal from alcohol is very hard to suffer through. Most people become angry, anxious, mean.....you get the picture.

..........................................................................................................

Vitamins B6 and B12 and Folic Acid taken in excess can affect neurotransmitters.

While B12 can be especially beneficial for someone experiencing depression, it can act like the antidepressant drugs (SSRIs such as Prozac, Lexapro, etc). 

B12 can boost neurotransmitters but can sometimes result in restlessness, anxiety, worry, and difficulty sleeping. The problems arise from unbalanced dosing and absorption rates.

The most common form of B12 is cyanocobalamin, which is the least expensive form. It's not recommended because it’s poorly absorbed and contains a small amount of cyanide, which you don’t need. The better form is methylcobalamin, which is easily absorbed and has greater biological activity.

Folic Acid- is also a stimulant. Like B6 and B12, folic acid promotes neurotransmitter production and release, and in high amounts — greater than 400 mcg (RDA) per day — can be activating to the body and brain.

Getting your folate from natural sources such as green leafy vegetables, fruits, and vegetables is truly the best way to go! 

Taking Folic acid is recommended for 'most' pregnant women.

For most people, these are not supplements you need to take every day unless you have a 'diagnosed' deficiency, say, are using it therapeutically for chronic fatigue or another condition. Be careful!

Taking a modest dose, balanced and quality multi vitamin a few times a week should not cause any problems.


Eat a balanced diet and avoid high dose vitamins unless prescribed by a physician who does a blood test for these.

Vitamin D, is found to be low in older adults, sometimes.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> This all sounds promising.
> 
> We, at SunCMars, pray that it is.
> 
> ...



He currently manages his low-T with a weekly injection, which I do for him. That alone causes a bit of strife because he hates getting the shot and I have to put my nurse hat on instead of letting this be a private thing. We are looking into different treatment options to give us more division on things that can be left private. Hopefully that helps, but it for sure is a source of contention between us on shot day. If he wants to push it off a day, I get very irritated given what happens if he has a T dip. Id rather not know and carry on about my day. It does boost the libido if he is consistent! We have come a long way in that department  The main improvement is I stopped thinking I am not "pretty enough" or attractive to him and understand low-T isn't intentional. 

He does take a multivitamin, Vitamin-D (some weird high strength one since he had almost 0 vitamin D), and B-12. And a blood pressure pill. I think he sometimes takes a fat burner before working out which may make him more aggressive. I feel like a crazy person when I take things like that so I am sure he does as well. 

He may skip a day or two but is generally good about taking his medications. Cleaning up the diet would probably help with his mood as well, but he is your typical meat and potato kind of guy. Green beans are okay if there's some bacon in the mix. We occasionally drink but its 1-2 tops in a sitting so I wouldn't classify him as someone struggling with alcohol abuse. I think we drank once this week, or it could have been last week. We are more social drinkers rather than sitting around the house...except I do love my wine after my toddler has given me a run for my money all day.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> That's what I told summer, who thread is similar. Some men need action instead of words.


Honestly, I hope MC helps with his need to have some sort of crazy outburst from me to get that I am not playing around. I am not someone who explodes or yells which has taken a long time for me to achieve. I grew up in a yelling household and I absolutely will not act like that with people I love. I felt like such a childish sack of **** acting like that! When I try to talk calmly and explain why things are important and why I feel a certain way, he mocks me and says I am playing the victim/having a pity party. Hopefully, I can figure out a way to not be so soft without having to yell?


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

moulinyx said:


> Honestly, I hope MC helps with his need to have some sort of crazy outburst from me to get that I am not playing around. I am not someone who explodes or yells which has taken a long time for me to achieve. I grew up in a yelling household and I absolutely will not act like that with people I love. I felt like such a childish sack of **** acting like that! When I try to talk calmly and explain why things are important and why I feel a certain way, he mocks me and says I am playing the victim/having a pity party. Hopefully, I can figure out a way to not be so soft without having to yell?


Yup a bat!! Not promoting violence just a tickle. But l know your serious. Make up a new rule if he doesn't listen to you? You get to take say money for example and use it anyway you choose. If it hits them in the pocket book they start to notice.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> Yup a bat!! Not promoting violence just a tickle. But l know your serious. Make up a new rule if he doesn't listen to you? You get to take say money for example and use it anyway you choose. If it hits them in the pocket book they start to notice.


HAHA! That is actually a really funny idea. Maybe some humor would help break up the drama while we learn how to communicate better/fight fair. Especially since he is so obsessed with extra shifts right now.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Is your husband's sister still moving in 2 doors down from your new house? Have you discussed boundaries around that?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

moulinyx said:


> HAHA! That is actually a really funny idea. Maybe some humor would help break up the drama while we learn how to communicate better/fight fair. *Especially since he is so obsessed with extra shifts right now*.


The extra shifts......

That comes from the T shots, too, also, in addition.

He cannot sit still. He jitters off to work. 

A shot a week keeps his T levels steady and high....

And those extra shifts bring in the real bacon. 
Regular hours pay the bills, extra shifts pays for goodies. 

Ach! Be careful!

This extra money should never be used for car payments, and large mortgage payments. Should never be spent and blown on wasteful things....

Why?

Overtime should never be counted on as being 'there' forever.

The extra money should be rolled into IRA's, and into college funds for that little rascal toddler that inspires your' wine drinking.

Overtime and extra shifts are a HUGE price to pay for lost leisure time, lost family time. But, if it is invested in the future, that is a GOOD thing.
Amen..

And some siphoned off for a nice vacation, every year or two.


The working man cannot get ahead without overtime. They will only tread water, keeping themselves and their family 'merely' from going under.

Now!, 

Ahem, back to T-injections....please keep an eye on his PSA levels, and do so with every scheduled blood test, or, at minimum, with each annual physical, make sure he gets his prostate checked on.
He is likely required to do this....maybe not.


THRD-


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

moulinyx said:


> Honestly, I hope MC helps with his need to have some sort of crazy outburst from me to get that I am not playing around. I am not someone who explodes or yells which has taken a long time for me to achieve. I grew up in a yelling household and I absolutely will not act like that with people I love. I felt like such a childish sack of **** acting like that! When I try to talk calmly and explain why things are important and why I feel a certain way, he mocks me and says I am playing the victim/having a pity party. *Hopefully, I can figure out a way to not be so soft without having to yell?*


When he does not listen, press your nose against his nose and march forward slowly. Tell him what needs to be done.
Don't raise your voice!

This tactic works against those who are overly aggressive. 

Uh, don't resort to this tactic but once or twice a year. Save it for serious matters, serious things.
Hopefully, you never need to do this!!



UlyssesHeart-


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> The extra shifts......
> 
> That comes from the T shots, too, also, in addition.
> 
> ...


Yes he is a very high energy person, but also gets obsessive over small goals and does whatever it takes to obtain the "thing". We both make really good money but he gets caught up in weird math to justify new ideas. A lot of it is immaturity and not knowing how to handle finances. We are starting Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University to help us get organized and keep each other accountable with our short-term and long-term goals. A Financial Advisor would also help since we both come from families who have always lived paycheck to paycheck. I am proud to say we have broken that cycle! We need to find a balance between overtime and family sacrifice. Right now, the OT makes me very resentful whereas he says I appear ungrateful. He is right though...I dont appreciate it at all since its all for "things" he wants, not anything we need. MC TO THE RESCUE!

I believe he gets blood work every 3 months in order to refill the prescription, though it may only be twice a year now that he's been on therapy for so long. I know he had to get the prostate checked once...lol....which I heard about for weeks. So dramatic! You would have thought he was assaulted!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

moulinyx said:


> I know he had to get the prostate checked once...lol....which I heard about for weeks. So dramatic! You would have thought he was assaulted!


Yes, ass-salted with a big fat finger sweep. 

Gots to be dun...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Okay, this is clever and make me smile...



SunCMars said:


> moulinyx said:
> 
> 
> > I know he had to get the prostate checked once...lol....which I heard about for weeks. So dramatic! You would have thought he was assaulted!
> ...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> Yes, ass-salted with a big fat finger sweep.
> 
> Gots to be dun...


Poor babies. Would you prefer a speculum and a spatula?>


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Poor babies. Would you prefer a speculum and a spatula?>


Yes, extra small, lubed and pre-warmed.

.......................................................

Yes, I know, ladies get inspected and 'probed' by ALL sorts of instruments, and things.

I agree, we males are lucky, in that respect.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Moulinx, you did not marry a man, you married a clan.

Asian Indians are this way, but almost always it is the parents who interfere with their children's marriages. 

It seems....You marry the parents in many cases.

Yours? The sister is the de-facto hovering,helicopter momma.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Not good when someone is closer to their blood relatives than their spouse, it does sound like that is the case.

As for the lot purchase, he shouldn't have encouraged them w/o discussing it, but even if he hadn't they could've bought it on their own and neither of you could've stopped them.

The MC is good news. While he's had ths relationship w/ his sister his whole life and it seems natural to him, hopefully an MC can convince him no spouse would like being second to an in-law.

You don't want to come across as saying "You can't be friends w/ your sister any more". You want him to know he can always have time w/ her, and you want to at least get along w her, but that you are supposed to be #1 in each others' lives, when it comes to commitment, making decisions and so forth.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> Moulinx, you did not marry a man, you married a clan.
> 
> Asian Indians are this way, but almost always it is the parents who interfere with their children's marriages.
> 
> ...


Exactly. I guess I thought things would calm down once we came together as husband and wife, but things got worse once the baby came. I know she is sad and unfulfilled in her life, but it isn't our job to fill her void. I wish my husband could see that we are not helping her, and the only one who can is herself.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

SpinyNorman said:


> Not good when someone is closer to their blood relatives than their spouse, it does sound like that is the case.
> 
> As for the lot purchase, he shouldn't have encouraged them w/o discussing it, but even if he hadn't they could've bought it on their own and neither of you could've stopped them.
> 
> ...


So on the day he agreed to marriage counselling he did admit he is aware their relationship is "weird" (though I said it isn't weird but isn't the norm) and knows he needs to be more conscious of how he is acting. He claims he gets into little brother mode around them since he doesn't see them very often and realizes what I get upset about. He starts acting so weird, leaves me out, and acts like a child. Bright side is he knows it isn't acceptable behaviour and wants to be better. I think MC will help guide us through the boundary setting process so we both can have realistic expectations. I know their relationship won't ever be what I consider to be normal, but there's got to be a middle ground we both can live with. I think he understands I do not want the relationship to go away, but I need to feel prioritized. In the past, he would rather let me down/upset me over upsetting his sister. 

During our last explosion, I shocked him by saying I have everything to gain if we were to separate. Having control of my life again, making my own decisions, and not having these constant arguments around boundaries...oddly enough it struck a chord with him. I guess he needed to realize I am not stuck and he needs to do his part to keep our marriage going. I still hope they end up selling their lot or we do, but I am realizing our problems are more centered around him rather than his sister. He sets the tone, and he needs to pick a better one!


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

moulinyx said:


> So on the day he agreed to marriage counselling he did admit he is aware their relationship is "weird" (though I said it isn't weird but isn't the norm) and knows he needs to be more conscious of how he is acting. He claims he gets into little brother mode around them since he doesn't see them very often and realizes what I get upset about. He starts acting so weird, leaves me out, and acts like a child. Bright side is he knows it isn't acceptable behaviour and wants to be better. I think MC will help guide us through the boundary setting process so we both can have realistic expectations. I know their relationship won't ever be what I consider to be normal, but there's got to be a middle ground we both can live with. I think he understands I do not want the relationship to go away, but I need to feel prioritized. In the past, he would rather let me down/upset me over upsetting his sister.
> 
> During our last explosion, I shocked him by saying I have everything to gain if we were to separate. Having control of my life again, making my own decisions, and not having these constant arguments around boundaries...oddly enough it struck a chord with him. I guess he needed to realize I am not stuck and he needs to do his part to keep our marriage going. I still hope they end up selling their lot or we do, but I am realizing our problems are more centered around him rather than his sister. He sets the tone, and he needs to pick a better one!


It's good he realizes he needs to change. I think you're right that he needs to prioritize you, aka make the decisions that affect you WITH you.

As for their relationship, don't try to micromanage it. If they treat each other in a way you don't think is normal, but that doesn't affect you, let them have their fun. If they can have their time together while you're not there, maybe everybody gets what they want. Having them 2 doors away might make that easier, but if he doesn't learn to draw lines it will be a disaster.

I also think you're right that whatever his sister does, he has to draw the line. The in-laws don't really have any power he doesn't give to them, and if he draws good lines they will either straighten out or lose him.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

moulinyx said:


> So how would someone change their reaction or just release the resentment? I don't think MC will fix my resentment with the land (since that is done and a whole other issue), but MC would be a good start for neutral discussion for marital expectations moving forward. My husband has literally said he just wants to know exactly what it takes to make *us* happy. What is IC?


MC will not help. IC (individual counseling) will. 
Your husband is still talking in abstracts, he should be saying "What can I do to fix what I broke"
As far as "marital expectations" everyone knows what that means, if someone has to tell him or you, they need to do it one on one.
Knowing who you are and where you fit into the world is how to "release the resentment"


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

moulinyx said:


> During our last explosion, I shocked him by saying I have everything to gain if we were to separate. Having control of my life again, making my own decisions, and not having these constant arguments around boundaries...oddly enough it struck a chord with him. I guess he needed to realize I am not stuck and he needs to do his part to keep our marriage going. I still hope they end up selling their lot or we do, but I am realizing our problems are more centered around him rather than his sister. He sets the tone, and he needs to pick a better one!


I would go one step further. 
I would tell him I’m not signing any loan/mortgage agreement if his sister is moving in two doors down. 
And if your name is on the loan for buying the lot then tell him that you can force a sale if necessary. 
It’s time for him to either get busy being a husband or get busy being a divorced man. 
When it comes to interference from in-laws I could write a book.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> I would go one step further.
> I would tell him I’m not signing any loan/mortgage agreement if his sister is moving in two doors down.
> And if your name is on the loan for buying the lot then tell him that you can force a sale if necessary.
> It’s time for him to either get busy being a husband or get busy being a divorced man.
> When it comes to interference from in-laws I could write a book.


Did you have a thread about that?

I vaguely remember stuff about toxic friends and a tattoo. 

I've done a lot of research and dealt a lot with messed up extended family interference so I'm interested.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Talking is obviously the easy part. The rest is hard and many aren’t willing to put the work in. Hopefully he will be one who succeeds.


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