# Betrayal Statistics



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Food for thought.


Statistic Verification 
Source: _Associated Press, Journal of Marital and Family Therapy _Research Date: 9.8.2012

*Marriage Infidelity Statistics Data *

Percent of marriages where one or both spouses admit to infidelity, either physical or emotional 41 % 

Percent of men who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they’ve had 57 % 

Percentage of women who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they’ve had 54 % 

Percent of married men who have strayed at least once during their married lives 22 % 

Percent of married women who have strayed at least once during their married lives 14 % 

Percentage of men and women who admit to having an affair with a co-worker 36 % 

Percentage of men and women who admit to infidelity on business trips 35% 

Percentage of men and women who admit to infidelity with a brother-in-law or sister-in-law 17 % 

Average length of an affair: 2 years 

Percentage of marriages that last after an affair has been admitted to or discovered 31 % 

Percentage of men who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught 74 % 

Percentage of women who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught 68 % 

Percent of children who are the product of infidelity 3 %


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Nothing very surprising in those numbers, which are probably on the low side given that they rely on honest answers, something cheaters aren't all that big on. 

People aren't designed to be monogamous.

Given the opportunity, most will stray.

That's why marriage just isn't worth the paper the certificate is printed on.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

I was surprised that the average betrayal is 2 years.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I am surprised at the brother and sister in laws. Tho saying that, I always knew I had the wrong brother! - my long term ex I had kids with.

And before anyone jumps on me, no, I never wished to cheat with him.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Percent of children who are the product of infidelity 3 %


This is the only one I can't agree with. 
I've seen estimates from various sites, putting it at the low end of 3% to the high end of 15%. 

I am willing to bet it is higher. 
Even from these statistics, it doesn't seem likely. If 54% of married women cheat and the average affair is 2 years long, that is way too low. And it is unlikely they used protection for 2 years. 

And does that 3% include the children born by fathers having an affair with a single woman?


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

What you take from these statistics is that it's the same group of men and women cheating over and over. 

There is something to the serial cheating thing. 

I wish there were more stats about the process.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Remains said:


> I am surprised at the brother and sister in laws. Tho saying that, I always knew I had the wrong brother! - my long term ex I had kids with.
> 
> And before anyone jumps on me, no, I never wished to cheat with him.


We have a state called Arkansas...


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> We have a state called Arkansas...


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

lenzi said:


> People aren't designed to be monogamous.


I think I will disagree.

I think we are designed to be monogamous. 

But all to many people are wired for betrayal. We see it glorified in books, movies, commercials, music, video games and especially the internet. 

So people think it must be and do so when trhey might normally not.


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## darklilly23 (May 26, 2013)

awake1 said:


> What you take from these statistics is that it's the same group of men and women cheating over and over.
> 
> .


And that these same people like to take polls...

Maybe the people that they asked are all narcissists and that's why they like to take polls, and cheat...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StandingInQuicksand (Jun 4, 2012)

We are designed to be monogamous - otherwise it wouldn't be so fantastically devastating when we are betrayed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

depressing


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Very discouraging, if accurate.


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## GreenThumb (Jul 5, 2013)

*Percentage of marriages that last after an affair has been admitted to or discovered 31 % *

For someone like me who is contemplating R, this is sobering and somewhat discouraging.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

awake1 said:


> What you take from these statistics is that it's the same group of men and women cheating over and over.
> 
> There is something to the serial cheating thing.
> 
> I wish there were more stats about the process.


The Pareto Rule of cheating. 20% of the spouses are doing 80% the cheating. The Pareto Rule applies to a lot of things.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

GreenThumb said:


> *Percentage of marriages that last after an affair has been admitted to or discovered 31 % *
> 
> For someone like me who is contemplating R, this is sobering and somewhat discouraging.


It's better than I would have guessed. So take heart!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Here's another stat for you---% of A--hook-ups that fail---97%


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## Wideopn Dave (Apr 11, 2013)

StandingInQuicksand said:


> We are designed to be monogamous - *otherwise it wouldn't be so fantastically devastating when we are betrayed*.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Couldn't agree more:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

BPGuy,

Actually we are not biologically designed for monogamous relationships, as my friends who are professors of the subject have all informed me.

But that does not excuse infidelity which is the breaking of a social contract. People vow to place their spouses ABOVE these biological realities.

The crappy part about cheaters is really their dishonesty and disloyalty to their own word. It is pure selfishness of placing their own urges before their solemn oaths.

The urges themselves are natural. But if you are a rational adult, you should be capable of overriding your natural instincts. After all, we are thinking individuals, not dumb animals who do not know better.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> BPGuy,
> 
> Actually we are not biologically designed for monogamous relationships, as my friends who are professors of the subject have all informed me.
> 
> ...


Very interesting and surprisingly apt positing this in the context of classic western political philosophy.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

*Random Thoughts....*



thatbpguy said:


> Food for thought.
> Statistic Verification
> Source: _Associated Press, Journal of Marital and Family Therapy _Research Date: 9.8.2012


This study, and all the ones like it are predicated on what people _will admit_. Many people will not admit to an external source that they would or have cheated. More importantly, can they admit it to themselves?. I believe that most people who have not, need to believe they would not. Until, they do. 

*TDLR: Cheaters lie, and most people arent comfortable believing they would commit a crime they haven't yet.*



awake1 said:


> What you take from these statistics is that it's the same group of men and women cheating over and over.


This study was conducted by the _Associated Press_. As with any study that hopes to publish meaningful, reputable data, there must be a wide variance in the data sources. Obviously no one person was used as a data source multiple times, and they had to diversify the source demographics significantly to legitimize the findings. 

*TLDR: The AP didn't ask the same set of people in a bar the questions 100 times each. *



thatbpguy said:


> I think I will disagree.
> 
> I think we are designed to be monogamous.





StandingInQuicksand said:


> We are designed to be monogamous - otherwise it wouldn't be so fantastically devastating when we are betrayed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, quite the opposite. Physiologically we are designed to maintain a monogamous relationship roughly 3-4 years. There are three primary emotional systems in the human brain that become involved in the mating and bonding process, and subsequently continue our prime directive as mammals, survival and evolution of the species. The neuorchemicals involved in lust(libido), attraction (“passionate love,” “obsessive love,” or “infatuation”), and attachment (termed “companionate love” in humans) run there peaks over what is roughly a 4 year period. 

Humans tend to divorce during and around the fourth year after marrying. This conforms to the traditional period between human successive births, which is also four years. It's been proposed that the worldwide human tendency to pair and remain together for about four years reﬂects an ancestral hominid reproductive strategy to pair and remain together through the breast-feeding and infancy of a single child. 

The nuerochemicals that mark the third and final stage 'attachment' begin to decrease once the youngster was at an age where older siblings, aunts, grandmothers, and other members of the hunting/gathering band could assist in raising them. 

I think you'll find that marriage patterns, and infidelity tendencies coincide with remnants of some kind of ancestral breeding seasons.

*TLDR: No. We are built to have offspring, raise them past the infant stage and move on to new mates to vary the gene pool.*



GreenThumb said:


> *Percentage of marriages that last after an affair has been admitted to or discovered 31 % *


"Last" is relative. It was "lasting" for these couples when this poll was taken. Much of what destroys the reconciliation takes time. Things can stay under the rug for a longtime, but they always come out eventually. I would ask the same 31% that were lasting at the time of this poll the same questions in 5 years. Bet the number isn't 31% anymore.

*TLDR: Yeah, 31% lasted until this poll anyway. *

FWIW, These are just the random thoughts the 'food for thought' article stirred up in me. lol.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> *Random Thoughts....*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I read it incorrectly then. My impression is that of current marriages 41% have included infidelity. About 14% of women/22% of men have cheated. Yet only 31% of marriages survive infidelity. 

This appears to me that it means a large population of people who frequently cheat have been getting married over and over. Or i've simply read it wrong, I never read the original article, only the post here on the thread. Anyway this isn't why I wanted to respond. 






Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> No, quite the opposite. Physiologically we are designed to maintain a monogamous relationship roughly 3-4 years. There are three primary emotional systems in the human brain that become involved in the mating and bonding process, and subsequently continue our prime directive as mammals, survival and evolution of the species. The neuorchemicals involved in lust(libido), attraction (“passionate love,” “obsessive love,” or “infatuation”), and attachment (termed “companionate love” in humans) run there peaks over what is roughly a 4 year period.
> 
> Humans tend to divorce during and around the fourth year after marrying. This conforms to the traditional period between human successive births, which is also four years. It's been proposed that the worldwide human tendency to pair and remain together for about four years reﬂects an ancestral hominid reproductive strategy to pair and remain together through the breast-feeding and infancy of a single child.
> 
> ...


This is mostly true. Some estimates peg it a couple more years (i've read as high as 7-12 years) We aren't meant for monogomy, but we really aren't meant for the opposite. It's something closer to the middle. I've heard it joked to as (Blank)ogomy. 

However there are many other natural, and social conventions to enforce relationships. Such as jealousy, shaming etc. These probably existed before civilization. So there is a natural counter weight to these newer theories. 

It's fascinating stuff.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

awake1 said:


> It's fascinating stuff.


Yes, It is.

Although I have found, once you start digging around under the hood and you see how everything is actually wired, it does tend to take some of the magic out of all. lol.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Yes, It is.
> 
> Although I have found, once you start digging around under the hood and you see how everything is actually wired, it does tend to take some of the magic out of all. lol.


Understanding that would have been helfpful to have had before we all allowed our lives to become so intertwined.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

My thoughts on monogamous is scripture based, not human based. For what it's worth.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> My thoughts on monogamous is scripture based, not human based. For what it's worth.


I respect such a position, and the effort it takes to maintain such faith. But the adherents to scripture are human themselves, regardless of how noble the sentiment of the philosophy might be. I was married in a full catholic mass, went through pre cana, and at the end of the day, it was all meaningless. Her betrayal helped me to understand what faith truly is: the hoped.for third party enforcement of the social contract. Disposable at the first whim, and cold comfort to the unselfish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> *Random Thoughts....*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> Food for thought.
> 
> 
> Statistic Verification
> ...


The thing that stands out the most about these statistics: The operative word being *ADMIT*


Many people routinely lie about their age, weight, number of sexual partners.
Many people don't want to admit even to themselves, that what they're doing is wrong
Many people don't want to admit that they're a pig or a slvt.

Like others, I believe those stats are on the low side.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

The most interesting thing I learned from taking College Stats classes.......you can create statistics to "prove" anything you want.

I think more people get married without thinking and talking about all the important things they should. No future thinking. The mentality that EH if it doesn't work we'll just get a divorce. He's dreamy and the sex is fantastic and I can fix him, she is the cats meow and I cant keep my hands off her. Really great sex can also be misread as the great love of your life. Not knowing that there are a bunch of puzzle pieces to put together to form a more perfect union 
I also think decades of desensitization to all sorts of things once thought of as taboo/abhorrent has given the illusion that yeah it's no big deal anymore, everybody's doing it (adultery, having babies before marriage etc etc) and then of course add in now we have had 30 years where divorce was more commonplace and generations of kids with divorced parents, step people etc. 
I think a lot of people go into marriage without being aware. And I also think that a lot of people give up too easily.

And after reading a lot of threads and posts here in TAM, I am astounded at the number of people really really trying their best to make it work and their spouse not giving a rats ass.

Anywhoooo....stats eh without knowing the research model, I don't put any high stakes in them. Besides don't we think (or like to think) we are all the exception to the rule?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Unique Username said:


> The most interesting thing I learned from taking College Stats classes.......you can create statistics to "prove" anything you want.
> 
> Anywhoooo....stats eh without knowing the research model, I don't put any high stakes in them. Besides don't we think (or like to think) we are all the exception to the rule?


Good points.

Statistical models can be manipulated or used in a variety of ways.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

also many professors---don't know anymore than you do---they get their info by reading and interpreting, the info, to fit the thesus they want to espouse---many prof's don't really know their a*s from a whole in the ground---they just want you to think they do

basically half of the mge's do work, and there is no cheating---so who is to say---what we actually are

But---I think we are a product of the era we are brought up into---and when most of us were growing up---sex was not as free and easy for kids as it is today

Today's kids, have sex starting at 12 and 13, and think nothing of it---many of their parents have no clue---these kids go from one to the next, trying out all kinds of things---so this coming generation of kids to be adults---may well skew statistics, that show there is much more cheating than before


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> I think I will disagree.
> 
> I think we are designed to be monogamous.
> 
> ...


No we aren't. The science proves this

Look it up for yourself

Do research

Humans did not practice monogamy for thousands of years nor did our ancestors. 



StandingInQuicksand said:


> We are designed to be monogamous - otherwise it wouldn't be so fantastically devastating when we are betrayed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The science say's otherwise. For thousands of years our ancestors did not practice monogamy nor did humans. 

It is only so devastating given that we are programmed via social conditioning to want to be monogamous and practice it. Thus we place much stock into relationships and at that monogamous relationships. The reasons its so devastating also is because its BETRAYAL, its deceit at its finest. When two individuals enter a monogamous relationship and one finds out they have been cheated on its cuts especially deep because the agreement they entered on was broken and they were betrayed.


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## Mtts (Apr 16, 2012)

Not really surprised by the poll and seems to me to probably be low as well. Regardless, even given I'm here, I know there is a large amount of people capable of loyalty I just seem to have misjudged mine. 

Granted I wasn't a great B/F before marriage...so it's justified.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Brokenshadow said:


> I respect such a position, and the effort it takes to maintain such faith. But the adherents to scripture are human themselves, regardless of how noble the sentiment of the philosophy might be. I was married in a full catholic mass, went through pre cana, and at the end of the day, it was all meaningless. Her betrayal helped me to understand what faith truly is: the hoped.for third party enforcement of the social contract. Disposable at the first whim, and cold comfort to the unselfish.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe it will help if I say this....

I believe the Bible teaches us to love and respect our spouses in abundance. To me, that is monogamy. 

However, I also understand that we are created as sexual beings. And I also understand that as such once love and respect is dropped then people naturally become attracted to others not their spouse. That's human nature. It is also human nature to be attracted to others when men & women are together as in a work place...

But if genuine love and respect exists in our (imperfect) marriages then the commitment and self respect ought to preclude us from seeking others (or, allowing ourselves to be seduced by others). We should place natural margins and boundaries to continue and respect our spouses.

So I understand the human perspective.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> No we aren't. The science proves this
> 
> Look it up for yourself
> 
> ...


I guess it all depends on what "science" one wants to follow.


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## Simon Phoenix (Aug 9, 2010)

Unless they had a polygraph attached to them while asking these questions, I have a hard time believing the numbers because they seem a little low. Just me...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inquizitivemind (Jul 16, 2013)

Wow. I really like being compared to an animal in the fact that since I am not wired to be monogamous, then I somehow should not be surprised that my husband cheated on me. Ok, great. Let's take a step back from the science of all that, and look at it this way.
We have a culture right now that tells us all the time that everything should be perfect, exactly the way we want it. We all have become selfish and get so easily angered whenever we don't get what we want. The few people on earth who had parents that taught them that there are better things in life than just getting what you want are the people who don't cheat. My parents have been married 22 years. No, they don't always get along. Yes, they love each other very much and if you ask either of them if they thought of cheating, they would say hell no. There are more important things in life than yourself. When people become the center of their world, and stop caring about other people, then this happens. 
If you think that you can't stay in a monogamous relationship, don't go into one. Nobody in western culture is forcing anyone to get married or be in a relationship, just like there is no excuse for cheating. If you are wanting to cheat, tell your partner, and either leave or fix it. What ever happened to honesty, decency, and love for other people. Sorry this is a little bit of a rant, but I don't like when people use science to make a basis for why people cheat. We may have tendencies, but we have self control! And those who don't, they are weak and deserve the unhappy life they will get.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

inquizitivemind said:


> Wow. I really like being compared to an animal in the fact that since I am not wired to be monogamous, then I somehow should not be surprised that my husband cheated on me.


I know it's rather unsettling to be compared to an animal and accept the fact that although we are the most evolved creatures on this planet, we have instincts and we constantly fight a battle of intelligence versus emotions, but that's how it is. 



inquizitivemind said:


> If you think that you can't stay in a monogamous relationship, don't go into one. Nobody in western culture is forcing anyone to get married or be in a relationship, just like there is no excuse for cheating.


Great idea except no one will listen. Cheaters don't usually know that they're going to cheat when they "enter a monogamous relationship", it happens later. And when it happens, the cheater is looking after their own self interests and throwing their faithful partner under the bus.



inquizitivemind said:


> If you are wanting to cheat, tell your partner, and either leave or fix it. What ever happened to honesty, decency, and love for other people.


It ain't never going to happen that way.



inquizitivemind said:


> I don't like when people use science to make a basis for why people cheat. We may have tendencies, but we have self control! And those who don't, they are weak and deserve the unhappy life they will get.


Some of us have self control, others don't. Problem is you don't ever really know what's going on inside the head of that other person you chose to commit yourself to. In fact, you might not even know yourself all that well.

It's a roll of the dice. Don't complicate life with marriage, that way when one of you sucumbs, it's easier to get the heck out of there.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

I will throw some random thoughts as well.

I agree completely with Pit and others who say that most of us are not genetically programmed to be monogamous, at least not in the long run. I will go further and say that since more promiscuous people are likely to have more offspring than their monogamous counterparts, the share of monogamous people in the population gets lowered everyday (we are not only governed by our genes, but also learn from the adults).

But, as I understand, fidelity, honesty, and self-control are traits which need to be learned. Most of us have to learn to play violin before we can play it in a manner that doesn't 'traumatize' the listeners. And that's what human civilization is all about, as far as I understand it. We are all supposed to be trying to strive for the better. The concept of monogamy was created to keep division of property at a limited level and less disputed, however the emotional value of it was also understood. Jealousy is a very powerful emotion, and it has oftentimes run havoc on societies.

And this is why I think the concept of marriage is very poorly understood by many people. I hear it here on TAM way too many times that you are not pro-marriage if you tell a BS to divorce first and then think of R. But marriage doesn't just mean a piece of paper. As long as two people are agreeing to be emotionally exclusive to one another, it is as good as marriage in my book. So, when a WS cheats, the previous agreement is broken, and it honestly doesn't make any sense to hold onto a piece of paper that has no emotional value. Being pro-marriage means you are not going to tolerate cheating, so telling a BS to divorce is actually pro-marriage.

The thing that I take from the statistics is that being officially married might not be great idea anymore. At least it makes no financial sense for me. If there is 50% chance that my spouse will cheat on me and then I will have to give her 50% of my property, that sounds to be the worst financial deal we can ever make. 

So, yes we can blame everything on genes, or we can all do the right thing and become a better version of ourselves, one day at a time.

Just some random thoughts.


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## mrtickle (Jan 29, 2013)

There will never be any reliable statistics regarding infidelity because :

1. People have to admit to it (many won't)
2. Peoples definitions of infidelity may differ. Many consider it a full-on 'affair', others would classify a hand-job from a massage girl or a fumble in a nightclub as constituting it.
3. The sample size is unlikely to be big enough or truly representative. Especially in relation to age, which I think is a key component.

One thing I think it clear is that it is incredibly common, far more than I ever thought it was. Perhaps thats the ease of conducting affairs these days, perhaps it reflects how broken marriages are now considered almost 'the norm' so it doesn't come with the social stigma it once did.

What I do know is that my parents broke up through infidelity, and out of my three closest friends every one also had parents who split due to one partner having an affair (this, of course has knock on effects for the AP's family who will also have a broken marriage to deal with). Out of my closer friends who are married, I think all of them have either been betrayed or cheated themselves (to various degrees). 

One friend of mine was taken aback when her child asked when he will have two houses to visit, and when he is going to get another daddy. Apparently, a huge percentage of kids in his class have 'two daddies' to the point where kids with just the one set of parents feel in the minority.

Contrast all this with my grandparents, who were devoted to each other until my grandfather died, or my other elderly relatives who have had a single partner since marriage. Of course, there are reasons why this is the case - back in the day it was less likely you would communicate with people outside your immediate social circle, affairs were harder to keep under wraps without the technology you have today and there was that pesky issue of a world war to contend with, which probably strengthened relationships more than anything. Affairs did happen of course, but I think the likelihood of them being maintained for any length of time, coming to light and forcing the end of the marriage was much smaller than it is these days.

It's a fairly depressing landscape and more so when I can only see it getting worse in the future. The kids who see their parents and their friends parents break up will see it more and more as the norm whilst technology will continue to develop to bring more and more people socially together (even in the last few years, there has been an explosion in the social side of technology). I still think marriage will be valued by many, but I think it will become so common to have two or three of them, that anyone on their 'first' marriage will be seen as having a potential issue somewhere.

Against all the experience of infidelity and marriage break ups amongst my own family and my friends family, I held on to the belief that mine was different and that both myself and my wife had gone through that with our parents and didn't want to make the same mistakes. We would repeat it occasionally to each other, and believed in it completely. 

I was wrong of course.

Completely depressing


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## inquizitivemind (Jul 16, 2013)

Lenzi, my point is this. Its the stigma of divorce, that divorce is somehow so bad, that makes marriage bad. Yes, as having been through a divorce, it can be rough. However, comparing my experiences with cheating and with divorce, I would say I would much rather have a spouse who is honest and we divorce amicably than a spouse who cheats. And, having an attitude that because something bad could happen, we shouldn't do it. Well, that is not much of a life. Stuff happens, we deal with it. We move on. Marriage has its pros and cons like everything else.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

life101 said:


> I agree completely with Pit and others who say that most of us are not genetically programmed to be monogamous, at least not in the long run.


Just to piggy-back off of your words here life101, we're not 'genetically programmed' to do a LOT of thing. We're not programmed to pee into a toilet, drive a car, use a computer, eat with a knife and fork, cut our hair, shave our legs, put on make up, chew with our mouth closed, say 'please' and 'thank you' or to apologize when we've done something wrong. As Life101 mentions. We have to LEARN to do these things. 



> But, as I understand, fidelity, honesty, and self-control are traits which need to be learned. Most of us have to learn to play violin before we can play it in a manner that doesn't 'traumatize' the listeners. And that's what human civilization is all about, as far as I understand it. We are all supposed to be trying to strive for the better. The concept of monogamy was created to keep division of property at a limited level and less disputed, however the emotional value of it was also understood. Jealousy is a very powerful emotion, and it has oftentimes run havoc on societies.


Spot on! I'm surprised at how often jealousy is neglected as a reason to remain monogamous. I know of both men and women who have cheated and who claim that they would "not have a problem" if their partner wanted to have sex with others...

...until it actually HAPPENS. The cheater wants to be the ONLY one cheating. 



> And this is why I think the concept of marriage is very poorly understood by many people. I hear it here on TAM way too many times that you are not pro-marriage if you tell a BS to divorce first and then think of R. But marriage doesn't just mean a piece of paper. *As long as two people are agreeing to be emotionally exclusive to one another, it is as good as marriage in my book. So, when a WS cheats, the previous agreement is broken, and it honestly doesn't make any sense to hold onto a piece of paper that has no emotional value.*


Agreed. My exb/f and I had an exclusive COMMITTED relationship without marriage. Those were HIS words. Having a marriage license doesn't NOT guarantee that either party won't cheat. 



> The thing that I take from the statistics is that being officially married might not be great idea anymore. At least it makes no financial sense for me. If there is 50% chance that my spouse will cheat on me and then I will have to give her 50% of my property, that sounds to be the worst financial deal we can ever make.


I agree with this also, Life101. I told my ex several times that there really isn't a reason for people to get married anymore. If I want my partner to inherit my property, I can make out a will or a living trust. I can open a bank account with him...I can visit him in the hospital as a domestic partner and I can even be put on his insurance as a domestic partner. There are very FEW things I CANNOT do (legally/financially) without the benefit of marriage. 

But I'll tell ya...being cheated on even without being married hurts JUST AS BAD. Luckily, our lives weren't so much intertwined that getting OUT of the situation was "that bad". We didn't have connected finances or have children together. I feel sorry for the people who DO have these things together, and who want to leave the cheater. Ugh...



> So, yes we can blame everything on genes, or we can all do the right thing and become a better version of ourselves, one day at a time.


I get tired of hearing the 'genes excuse' too. Basically it's like saying that we don't have to even bother TRYING to exercise ANY self-control over our selfishness, lust and greed. 

Sometimes I really wonder how far we, as a society, have really come from 5000 years ago...

Vega


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