# I'd rather never be touched again



## Bloodymary (Oct 10, 2010)

Ok so my title sends up red flags...meant for it too. I need help, advice, something, before I go and spend 100's of dollars on counselors to avoid breaking up my marriage. No...I'm not thinking about filing for divorce but I'm sure if I told my husband he'd never have sex with me again he would. 

Details will be as vague as humanly possible, I'm not here for my embarassment and it would kill me to know I embarassed my husband.

I got married (about) a year ago. My husband and I had sex less than 5 times, less than a month before we were married. He was not my first, I was his second. (He said so, and I trust him.) We wanted to wait until we got married so each time he was trying his hardest to "get some" and I was keeping him at bay...well obviously I failed at that. The wedding went fine and we started our life together.

One of those 5 times we had sex before the wedding, I got pregnant. We were both thrilled and couldn't wait to meet our little one. A month after our wedding, I miscarried. He was on a trip in another state, he came back for the medical procedure to extract my babies body from my uterus. He told me to my face that it was more important to him to have stayed on his trip (work related) than come home to be with me durring this VERY stressful time. I didn't have the D&C procedure where they put you to sleep, I took some pills to make me contract and open so our baby would be released such as a normal delivery. This took place in our shower. While I was "delivering" our baby, I was completely alone, me, God...if he was even in the room, felt like I was in HELL both physically and mentally, and the massive amount of blood coming from my body. My husband, who had already stated it was more important to be somewhere else, went into our living room, and sat down on the couch and tuned on the T.V. I wanted to run into the living room and ***** AT HIM...but I almost physically had to push it out of my mind to keep myself standing up in the tub. When our baby finally came out and fell into the bloody water, I picked up the "water bag" it was enclosed in and held it in my hands, I called for him several times before he finally came and showed him his child. He took a look and then said ok, and left the bathroom again for the tv. At that point all I wanted to do was get the blood off of me, I took a jewelry box from the bathroom sink and put our pinky sized baby's body into it, until I could clean myself up. Life went on as usual; until I couldn't hold in my dissapointment in him for not being there for me. That was the most difficult thing I've ever gone through in my entire life and the one person I thought would understand that wanted to catch some tube.

Anyhow, a month later EXACTLY, and a few days before my birthday, my husband starts getting texts from his ex girlfriend (who put him into financial bankruptcy). These messages include naked pictures of herself, so he sends a picture of himself back to her, fully clothed of course. ??? No, really he was fully clothed, work clothes in fact. Not what she wanted I'm sure. But he's a tad bit shy. I asked him nicely if he wanted to get naked pictures from her and he said "Sure." I asked him then if he thought it was right to be getting naked pictures from other women and he said "I guess." I then asked him if he was going to ask her to stop sending him naked pictures of herself, he looked around the room as if the answer was going to be on the walls of our tiny apartment, and said "Um. No." 

Eventually he blocked her from his phone after some *****ing from me, I know her number and if they start talking again, I will start talking to a lawyer. 

These are the least of my problems though...

If you are still awake and feel like reading more thanks if not I totally understand. Plenty of drama for one night...


When he wants sex he says, "I'm hyper." And if I don't start foreplay in the next 5 minutes he walks into our bathroom, LEAVES THE DAMN DOOR OPEN, (I have a toddler from a previous relationship) and takes care of it himself. If I'm also in the mood and I START foreplay, and the baby is asleep or visiting family, we end up in the bedroom or on the couch. He expects me to be ready to rock as soon as he is. He knows nothing about foreplay, doesn't show any interest in my body at all except for what is between my thighs. I've verbally told him I enjoy my chest paid a good bit of attention to, I've told him that many times, he acts like they're poison. There is NO touching outside of sex unless I instigate*sp. If I'm in the mood before hand it's different but if I'm not and choose to be with him anyhow, it's incredibly painful for me. His idea of lube is spitting on his hand and then rubbing it on me and then however he can getting himself inside me. I've told him over and over again it's painful, to wait a little while, and things to do to help me get "excited", he non-verbally and verbally has stated he doesn't care.

Sex problem #2 
He lasts for about a minute and 15 seconds and then it's over. He rolls over in bed or goes into the bathroom and ignores me for whatever length of time. 

Sex problem # 3
I'M A FREAKING NYMPHO, I LOVE SEX, SEX IS AWESOME, WELL WAS IN THE PAST. My previous relationship my partner, male, complained that I wanted sex too much. I would, at this point right now never ever be touched again, not by anyone, than have to have sex with him again. 

There is no intimacy at all, not durring sex, not after sex, not before sex not any, at all, ever. 

Can I live in a marriage like this, yes, I do not believe in divorce unless there is proof of cheating, or physical abuse. Can he live in a marriage without sex, I doubt it. 

But I'm done having sex with him. That's just not happening anymore. I love him, but I refuse to be with him in that way.

Please help?
I'm trying to avoid marriage counseling as hard as I can.
I love my husband, but I feel like we are complete strangers and getting in bed with him again and not having at least a sheet between our bodies scares me. 

He is on another work related trip, so sex is impossible right now for us. But he's coming back soon, and I'm sure he will not like it when I refuse him completely.

What's wrong with me?


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

I had this kind of experience with my ex. He wasn't romantic about sex. No foreplay, no romance, after four years, I was dried. I am a romantic woman. And there was no love evolved, finally sex with him was like being raped. 

I left since I couldn't continue my life like that. But your situation is different, you still want to continue your marriage, you are worried that he won't be fine with you. After reading men's posts, a lot of them are frustrated that they don't get enough sex. A lot of them are seeking a route out of their marriage since lacking of sex. If there isn't strong love in your relationship, I don't think he can tolerate you for not having sex with him. So if you want to keep this marriage, you have to work on that issue. 

How? I don't know. From the description you give, sounds like you are pretty disgusted by him. Will you be able to pretend that he is a new lover to you? I don't think that's possible. 

Could you sit down with him and tell him what's in your mind. Sometimes we are too scared to tell the other person what's in our mind, and that's the biggest enemy of us. He wants sex, if he wants sex, at least he has to make it enjoyable for you. Sex is not about one person's enjoyment. Sex is related to two. Both of you have to enjoy it, if only one is having fun,the other one stop trying to provide. 

I can't give you much advice, hope somebody else can help you out!!!


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## Bloodymary (Oct 10, 2010)

Thank you Greenpearl. I'm not quite sure what to do next. I refuse to lay in our bed underneath him without being one bit interested in having sex with him. 


GUYS? If you act this way towards a girl, what does that mean? He proposed, he set the date, I said yes. If he didn't love me, why did he follow through with the wedding?


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## bumpgrind1 (Mar 29, 2010)

He just wants to own you. I've known other guys like this and I'm uncomfortable hearing them talk about themselves. My wife is my number one. Her happiness in and out of the bed is a priority for me. We are having some troubles in the sex department but it's getting better. You don't have a lot of time invested in this turd, I say dump him. A truly driven woman like you won't be alone for long.


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## Bloodymary (Oct 10, 2010)

My views on divorce keep me from doing that...as does my toddler. I didn't have a father growing up that was worth a darn, and he's a good guy, he just acts like I mean nothing to him 99% of the time. I want to fix this between him and I, honestly, but I don't see him reacting to professional help in a positive way. But that is my last option. We will sit down and talk about it as Pearl suggested, when he gets home. If that helps nothing I will call and schedule an appointment with a marriage counselor. If counseling doesn't help things, I really don't know what other options I have. I can only hope he gets tired of being rejected and files for a divorce. I will not. 


And bumpgrind1, I've read a few of your posts and the advice you've gotten already is pretty good. I'm new to this marriage thing (1yr) but not to relationships. If you've already tried asking her what is wrong or how exactly she feels, and she hasn't told you....I just don't know. The only thing I can say is she ought to feel honored that you would be so persistant*sp, in trying to fix this part of your marriage. I hope things resolve for you both as quickly and painlessly as possible. As I hope the same for my marriage. 
Thanks for your imput.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

I am a firm believer in marriage as well or I wouldn't be in one 17 years later. Having said that, this man is abusing you in every way. Mental and emotional abuse is just as much abuse as physical. His actions during your miscarriage to me border on intentional infliction of emotional distress. People get sued for that every day! His actions were deplorable and I wouldn't want that person having sex with me, touching me or even breathing the same air as me. Ever. 
As for your grounds for divorce and your deal breakers, he did cheat. He had naked pictures of his ex and WANTED to continue to get them despite your feelings. He only stopped once you mentioned a lawyer. Sorry, that's cheating in my book. A married man that has and willingly receives naked pictures from women (nevermind that it is his ex) is cheating. I guarantee you if you were getting pictures of your ex's **** and you respond to your husband that you want to continue to receive them, he would go ballistic. 
Now on to his sexual "technique". Spitting on his hand and rubbing it on you and forcing himself inside you regardless of your pain is rage inducing to me. He doesn't care about your pain, wants or desires. If I were in your position the only intimacy he would ever get from me again was when I slapped him in the face (literally) with a divorce petition. 
Marriage counseling will not work. He has a serious problem that can only be worked out by him with intense counseling. He is controlling and abusive and it will become physical soon, mark my words. I have no idea why you are concerned about "embarrassing your husband". He doesn't deserve you loyalty or your caring about his feelings. He ISN'T a good guy. Read what you wrote for God's sake! Where is your line in the sand? Why should he be the one to file? The one who files ALWAYS has the upper hand. He could claim alienation of affection and really hurt you and your child financially. I wouldn't give him that power for a second. He has already taken much of yours away. Find yourself and rise up. You have a child to think of and this will never be a happy environment for your child unless your husband either gets serious therapy or a brain transplant.


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## avalon22 (Oct 10, 2010)

I am new here but going to keep it simple. Your husband is a jerk and you should get rid of him. LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO BE UNHAPPY


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## 76Trombones (Jun 2, 2010)

Wow I still can't get past the fact that he left you alone in the shower during that time. That would be a VERY traumatic experience and I can't believe acted like he did! Has this man got a heart at all? I think the sex is the least of your problems. He sounds like a jerk, like the other member commented.


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## Sara Ann (Aug 27, 2010)

I can understand the miscarriage part. I know a couple whose young son died. The mother deal with it by removing herself from all children and memories of her son, while the father dealt with it by spending more time in the son's classroom to revive his memory. If your H took it hard, then avoidance could be the way he dealt with it.

Or maybe he is heartless.

The other stuff he does is out of a character for a loving H.

Your plan sounds solid. Talk to him. Then marriage counseling.


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## Bloodymary (Oct 10, 2010)

Bottom to top...

Sara Ann, I did the opposite, I held that tiny baby in my hands and talked to it (was probably borderline nuts, but who cares) I cried over it, I held it in my hand close to my chest as if to hug it. I asked for them to find out why I miscarried, (they can sometimes check for stuff). Besides telling me it was unimportant to him to be there for me, he acted like it didn't happen. Maybe that was his way of dealing with it. 

There is nothing to do but talk to him and then see if he will go to marriage counseling with me.

76T. 
I know, but I must have seen something in him for me to marry him. I love him. So I hate the fact that I can't "love" him anymore but I just can't force myself to let him get that close to me anymore. 


Avalon22
Just getting rid of him was something I seriously wanted to do durring those times, but when my son sees a picture of him he says "Da-da". That usually is pretty quick to change my mind. I don't want to be unhappy though it sounds like it. I just don't want my family to be like mine as a child, broken, and not a place for children.

And Brennan
Thanks for reminding me about the upper hand. I have Law Enforcement background so I would probably try to get back into that, but that wouldn't happen overnight. And I have no income besides his. He says he doesn't want me to work. Anyhow, it was a polite slap in the face for me to read your reply. Thanks. I have to give talking and counseling a chance though. For my own peace of mind. I guess I need to change my views on filing. 


ALL....
Do I have a leg to stand on legally if I decided to file after we sit down to talk and he tells me to my face he doesn't care again. Granted I hope to goodness that doesn't happen but if it does. What will happen?
I have no money of my own, and don't have a job right now.
I have no job because #1 I enjoy being a stay at home mom, #2 he doesn't want me to work.
I don't know where my child and I would stay. I don't know if my family would take me back or not.
All things I never thought I'd have to think about again.
But we'll see in several weeks what happens.

Thanks for the advice or the wake up calls. 
First time getting this info. out to other than his family, (they don't know I will reject any sexual advances when he comes home.)


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## stumblealong (Jun 30, 2010)

I am so sorry for your situation. I can understand you not wanting to leave for your child's sake, I too stay for my daughter. But, he doesn't sound like a great influence for your child. He sounds self-centered and heartless Your child would rather see you happy, you can provide all the love he needs, because it doesn't sound like your H is capable of loving. I agree with other posters--life is too short, you DESERVE someone much better! Best of luck to you.
Stumble


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

What you went thru was emotionally traumatizing. You should have been at the hospital, the doctors should not have allowed this at your home. What if something happened to you. Your husband should have been there. I'm so sorry for the loss of your baby.

I'm sorry, but your husband treats you like a prostitute. He thinks it is his right for physical pleasure without any effort on his part to make it pleasing for you. 

He won't file for divorce he will either:
cheat- then say it's your fault for denying him sex, or
take it after all he thinks he has the right.

Do you think you are scared to have sex with him out of fear you may get pregnant, miscarry again, and go thru the same trauma? 

You love him, so I say try to work thru this with him, if he is willing. I hope he realizes what he will loose if he doesn't put forth the effort. I hope you two can work this out, good luck BM


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

BloodyMary,
You have gotten alot of advice from people here. I know it takes time to digest. I do understand the need to stay because of lack of income. He told you he didn't want you to work to further his control of you. That way you are totally dependent on him and more willing to accept his treatment of you.
There are SO many programs that are available to you. I don't know where you live but in the States there are a tremendous amount of resources that could help you and your son be on your own. Job training, counseling, legal help, you name it. You mention law enforcement so I am guessing you are living in the U.S. (just a hunch). You have no idea what resources you have!
While I do think that all marriages should be given as many chances as possible, I don't see this coming to a pleasant end unless he gets serious help. He is really abusing you and your son will not grow up in a happy home. If he agrees to seek the treatment he so needs then I would give him another chance but if he wavers for a second, I would leave. Do you have family/friends close to you? Is there anybody in your life that could help you out?


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## Bloodymary (Oct 10, 2010)

I probably should have mentioned this before...
I was terrified of getting pregnant again, but he expressed to me how important it was to him for us to get pregnant before he left on his 6 month trip, and so we tried...(painfully, and as often as possible with his work schedule)...we got pregnant less than 90 days after the physical part of the miscarriage was over. 
I'm 29 weeks now...
This adds to my stay/leave problem, I would never be ok with not being with my children as much as possible. But actually in one of the fights we had through email no doubt, he said that I could leave and file for child support if I wasn't happy. Then he called and apologized. 
I have family, but I don't know that they would let us stay until I got an apartment. I don't keep a lot of close friends and for most of them I have been the "place to stay/extra money for rent/diapers/baby food" friend. When I worked of course.
I really don't know what I'm going to do at this point...
He called today and unfortunately the conversation of "how much he would be waking me up (for sex)" came along...I didn't say much. Didn't say anything, I think I changed the convo. to what my son had for breakfast in fact. 
I live in the U.S. yes. 
With this pregnancy he's joked about whether or not he will be there for me when I have the baby, I mean present for delivery. He's said that he will be watching football and I can come get him when I'm done. I took it as a joke the first 5 times he said that, and then after that told him I would hang up on him if he said again that he would not be there for me. 

DOES HE NOT UNDERSTAND I WANT HIM THERE? BECAUSE OF THE SIMPLE FACT I LOVE HIM AND DEPEND ON HIM FOR COMFORT? HE DOESN'T HAVE TO PULL THE BABY OUT OR LOOK WHILE MY privates ARE STRETCHED TO 10 HE CAN WATCH THE TV IF I'M IN LABOR FOR 15 HOURS BUT WHEN THE BABY IS ACTIVELY COMING OUT LIKE HALF IN HALF OUT I WANT HIS FULL ATTENTION....IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?

Sorry about the rant...
I'm terrified about how this is all going to go once he gets home...at this point I'd rather him not be there to upset me durring the birth of our child. Is it mean to say I hope his flight is delayed? It's his first child, I'm sorry but I expected a little more excitement?
Is he not excited about this one because I lost the "first" one?
I want to find a counselor we can see maybe even before the baby is born. That way he knows not to joke about STUPID CRAP YOU SHOULDN'T JOKE ABOUT while your wife is giving birth.

Am I overbearing?
Am I too needy for him?
Should I tell him how I feel over an email before he returns, (which gives him a chance to seek his own legal counsel...errr)?
I want to be open and honest and it feels wrong to not talk about this with him, but I want the UPPER HAND. I was just fine by myself before we got married, I want to be just fine by myself if we are to get divorced.

Yes...digestion is taking place, but it feels like I ate a whole cow.
I was so excited about us in the begining, I never imagined we'd be dealing with stuff like this.

Thanks again everyone, it's been a few days but I will let you know how it's going...
Bloodymary


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Bloodymary 

I can't say that your husband is like my ex. But for romantic part, they are the same. They just don't understand women. 

If you are not a romantic woman, then it is easy for you to deal with it, but if you are a romantic woman, then you are really going to wither. I was almost withered after four years with my ex. I didn't want to kill myself slowly, being a romantic woman, living with a man who doesn't understand the romantic part of woman, it is like committing suicide, just in a way you don't see blood. 

I left, I found a man who understands romance. Now I am very satisfied. 

Sometimes we just suck and make mistakes and get married to the wrong person!

In order to have a better life, I think leaving is a better solution. Because they will never change.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Okay, wow. . .this is heavy.

Okay. . .I am not sure where to start.

First of all, this may sound callous, mean, I am not sure what adjective, but I can identify with your husband on some level with this miscarriage (and thank you for posting your pain and sharing it with me).

My wife miscarried on our second pregnancy. I was obligatory in my sympathy, I didn't cry, but I felt bad for her, of course, I went for her D&E, and I was with her. . .but she was mad at me for not remembering (or going to remember) the anniversary date of when the fetus met it's demise and wanting to plant a tree or something to honor it's brief existence in this world and in her body. If I remember, I took off the day of and the day after but then I did return to work with business as usual.

I am not trying to explain away your husband's behavior but his seeming indifference may have been a way of trying to cue you to "forget about it", like I don't know. . .you dont have to grieve for me. In fact, his indifference may be that he feels you didn't need to grieve (even though you did).

And did he know you were going through that? As sometimes as insensitive as I regret being and not being patient with her (she seemed to plunge into a depression about it and remember, we did have 1 healthy kid but we went through all kinds of genetic testing), I don't think I could have ever allowed my wife to go through that and if I had known that I WOULD HAVE BEEN TRAUMATIZED!!! Did you let him know what exactly was going on? Did the docs downplay this, like no big deal?

Because I am befuddled.

I am remembering with sudden clarity when she found out our 4 month old fetus was dead in her womb to go home. She looked at me petrified and said, "I can't have this dead baby in me for a weekend. I have to get it out now!" We called my partner's wife who was a hospital administrator and she worked maternity and really understood the issue. I admit, although I was supportive of my wife, that I was like, "Well, the doc, a male OB, of course, said there's no hurry."

She was a maternity nurse prior to being a hospital administrator and understood though and bumped up her D&E to be performed the next day.

I know it's crazy to you to not understand where men are coming from because I know how sentimental women are about pregnancy. You were naming it and think about what it was going to be when it grew up, had colors for the room picked out.

Trust me - he wasn't even there. He was maybe thinking about bills at the most (and that's the magic of marriage - you need a practical thinker in the equation). He wasn't connected to that baby. You have a 9 month relationship with a baby, a headstart, that exceeds the father before he touches it.

Wow. I don't know what to say except I'm so sorry for your loss (and it brings up past pains) and he needs to hear this from you but you also need to bring forgiveness into the marriage.

Once he asks for forgiveness and expresses contrition, you'll need to give it. I don't think he meant anything or doesn't love you.

God, it also reminds me of how I could better guide my sons in their marriages as I learn from my mistakes. Maybe my father was remiss in instructing me. I know my mom had a D&C done before my birth but she was always like "No big deal" to me. Some women it is no big deal.

My wife had her D&E done at the hospital though and I was solemn during that; I don't know. . .maybe I am a jerk like your husband.

I wish technology wasn't so good. Everytime it seemed like we knew 6 weeks into things. Most of the time, miscarries happened and the woman didn't know about it. Now, women know within 3 days of conception and are picking out names.

Anyway, before the other sexual technique/approach stuff, I think you both need some grief counseling (find a good one) to work through it and help him understand, then be open to bringing forgiveness into your marriage on it. I am not excusing him. . .as you can see I am uncomfortable by this whole subject at my own missteps and regrets but you wanted something from your husband that he wasn't capable of giving at the time. I think sympathy has to be taught a bit.

I know women think men should automatically just have sympathy, and maybe we just have this faith too much that the system knows what they are doing and if you are okay, you are okay. 

The medical system let your family down. If this was the procedure, the OB/GYN or midwife should have had your husband in and explained the full traumatic nature of what was about to happen at home and taught him what to do and how to behave and consulted him and made him parrot back what they said and said, "No, you need to be home when this happens. This isn't some removal of a cyst or something." Explain in gory detail, getting him to the point where he nearly faints from hearing it.

Because you had to live it. Why shouldn't he? I would have wanted to.

The medical system failed you. Surprise, surprise. It's failing America in general.

Sorry, my rant as I work healthcare tonight.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

PS: Before you go thinking, "Well, you're different than my husband. YOu work healthcare. You are naturally more empathetic."

Yes and no.

Yes, I suppose I have a general sympathy greater than the average male. In that, I am in touch with my femine side maybe more than a guy who works construction or a lumberjack.

I know very well how to comfort a patient and make them feel cared for and loved.

But here's the flip side of that.

Often, because I see and am educated on so much, sometimes I have had a hard time with perspective.

Like celebrating the wonder of my stb-x's first pregnancy. I have a regret that I didn't do that enough with her, that it wasn't just something that millions of women do everyday, but it somethign that's the first time (or 2nd or 3rd) for her.

I was also kind of taught/brought up that it's not polite to make a big deal out of yourself. For instance, I was very, VERY uncomfortable this year when my ex-gf tried to make a big deal out of my birthday. I almost didn't even tell her and she kept harping and harping on it, even though I didn't want to call attention to myself. I almost reacted very verbally with her - STOP TALKING ABOUT MY BIRTHDAY! She could see how uncomfortable it made me.

I was brought up with a very strong idea that you are to downplay your own importance. I even made sure my kids didn't know. My 13 year old later felt remorse he didn't remember it but I said, "Oh, it's really no big deal. Don't feel bad."

So. . .this "dysfunction" and now I can see it's a dysfunction, carried into my wife's pregnancy (I was better about the 2nd because she complained I didn't make a big deal out of it).

Anyway, I am sorry - I don't mean to make this "Therapy for Scannerguard" but you opened a can of worms there and maybe the male perspective can help heal you both. I hope to help others avoid the misunderstandings we had.

I think the questions to ask your husband so he can answer in a non-threatening way (a counselor when you aren't present): Why did you behave that way? The problem is, he may not be self-aware enough, like I was, to even be able to articulate intelligently why he was so blah-zay about the whole thing.

"I don't know why I didn't feel anything."

But I can see why you don't want to be touched sexually.

This has to be cleared up first.

I wish you both well.


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## Bloodymary (Oct 10, 2010)

Much insight!!! Scannerguard! That helps, almost literally opens windows into "possibly" what was going on with him durring the whole thing. I will never be seen at that hospital again, had to switch insurance and go with lower coverage for the entire pregnancy and 3 months after (a year) before I can move back up to full coverage.
Anyhow...his mother tried to explain the same thing you did, but listening to her was clouded by the fact he was her son. You have no emotional stock in my husband so why would you need to make excuses for him? Bro's first!!! J/k!!! 
I'm still not getting the whole thing of him actually telling me he'd have rather been elsewhere and not just because it was "uncomfortable" for him...but that it was unimportant, and what needed his attention on his business trip was more important than being with me. Wanted to physically slap him when he finished saying that but of course I didn't. About 2 weeks later, a dog he grew up with died and I was thrown back into depression about why he could be visibally hurt by the dogs passing and not the death of our child. His mother kept telling him I wasn't the same woman he married and that somehow the miscarriage had made me a freaking basket case...at that point in time I would have liked to shoot her.

Also not understanding why he thinks it's ok for the spit technique?
Or why he replies that he doesn't care when I tell him penetration and whatever is next (either I turn my head and wince/cry, or I can't do it...and get up and walk out of the room), is VERY painful for me. 

No orgasms...not since honeymoon anyhow.
And on top of that, everything I've told him that gives me GREAT pleasure in bed, oral and him touching my breasts, he refuses to do. And yes as someone stated, I feel like a *****. 
Don't y'all complain about us not "Telling" you what to do to make us "happy"?
I agree with grief counseling, at least maybe a few sessions for me...but I'd totally love to find a freaking sex therapist. WTF makes him think sex is all about him? Only for his enjoyment? The sex part has nothing to do with my grief or whatever the heck he did or didn't feel.

He's also stated that the sex we have together is all about him. Of course I don't know if the smile on his face meant he thought it was funny, (he's exceptonally childish), or that he was joking. But the reaction he got from me after that should have felt like a kick in the **** with a pair of pointed Tony Lima's.

I only hope he doesn't come on too strong when he gets home. If I have to I will physically get him off me. I'm already debating whether or not we will stay in the same house when he comes home.

I don't feel much like a wife right now. And maybe I don't have a right to. But at this point I don't care. I want to know what I mean to him for real and if he really thinks honestly that sex should not be pleasurable for me...than I need to file NOW.

I think my head is clearing....finally.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

I am sorry but did anybody else read the part where he doesn't care if she is in pain during sex, jams it in, doesn't care if she likes it or not, refuses to let her work and basically controls her every move? 
This is ON TOP of his deplorable actions after her miscarriage. This guy is a class A *******.


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## Bloodymary (Oct 10, 2010)

........It's fine if he felt nothing towards the baby...nothing. But I am his wife (got the papers in the envelope at the house), shouldn't he feel for me? And if he can't feel, doesn't he know that husbands are supposed to love and care for their wives, whether or not they FEEL like it? I'm not pissed that our child dying didn't bother him, I WAS, I'm not anymore, I could care less. It's dead, and it is the past. But I'm taking the track record of the s-t he's said to me joking or not, because it is impossible to read him at all.
And the three bombs 
"I don't want to be here for this, I'd rather be with my men, that is more important."-morning before miscarriage

When I asked him one time shortly before he left for his trip if he thought sex was all about him now that we were married, he got this **** eating grin on his face and laughed a little and said "Yes, that's how it's supposed to be...all about me." I avoided him the rest of the day and DAMN straight he didn't get any that night.

And 3 
The fact that every time he calls me which is about 3 times a week he states that he will be watching football while I am in labor, and I can come get him when I'm done pushing the baby out.

I've told him I don't want to hear that...I've threatened to hang up on him if he says it again, or anything along the lines of he doesn't want to be there for me. **** THE BABY...DAMNIT...I WANT HIM THERE FOR ME...and If he doesn't want to be there for me...**** our marriage.

If this is all a big joke to him, he should tell me that. If he wanted a pet he could train and control to please him and him alone he should have bought a damn dog.

If he tells me he doesn't want to be there for me durring the birth of our child again...I'm not taking any more of his calls. Or replying to any more emails, yahoo instant messages, anything. We can hash this out face to face when he feels like seeing me...I will be at a friends house...female, married, 2 kids, and my best friend. No hanky panky...
Then he can sit back and joke all he wants, but I don't have to hear it.

Sorry...the clarity has brought anger to the surface and I'm just mad now.


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## MotoDude (Sep 15, 2010)

I haven't read everyone else moments, but if a husband just sit there watching a tube without care, then he's not a man. And reading about other problems you have with him, why stay?


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Okay, I would try some "tough love" here.

Tell him that his "sense of humor" (and anyone here who knows me, knows I love a good sense of humor) is often at your expense.

He's either got to stop joking around about matters that you take seriously and to heart.

Or turnabout is fair play.

I suspect he'll need turnabout though.

With that, come to this forum for help.

For instance, when he says jokes that hurt you, you could joke around about his fumbling sex technique. Make cracks about counting the cracks in the ceilling. How past lovers pleased you more. Remember to laugh though, like he does.

Guys (including me sometimes) often can't be "explained" reasons why their behavior inappropriate. This is why I think boys need spanked and girls often don't when they are younger. You can explain to a boy to your blue in your face why it is wrong to hit your little brother who's less strong than you, less able to defend themselves.

Until you make them feel the pain of a bigger person inflicting pain on their bottom, then they have an "Aha!" moment. 

"Oh yeah, I felt the fear he feels. Oh yeah, I felt the pain he feels."

It's not anything mean in a way - guys just need to be wallopped to get the point across.

I would tell your MIL exactly your plan as I am sure she may have to deal with the fallout but his joking around about matters has got to stop.

Good luck.


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## Bloodymary (Oct 10, 2010)

What if this jokester of a husband I have is also very sensitive when it comes to him? You can joke about how big my ass is, you can joke about how there is a grey streak of hair on my head already and I'm only 23. You can joke about my left front tooth that got broke in half in 2nd grade and is now the color of s-t. But don't joke about abandoning me. That s-t isn't funny. 

If I cracked a joke about his sex problems, yes, he'd probably call his mother and I'd get a phone call. But I'm sure if it happened more than once she'd tell him to leave me or to call the white van with the Dr.'s in white suits who bring a straight jacket. (If they still do that.)

I doubt playing mind games with him is going to do anything at all except cause more trouble for me that I don't want or need at this point, but I will try joking about not being here when he comes home from his trip...that I have something better to do than pick his butt up from the airport and to get someone else to do it. Make it clear to him that I COULD come get him...but I don't want to...that there's something more important than seeing him for the first time since May, that I want to do. That should be a major jab...but I know 100% what will happen 50% he will clam up and pretent it doesn't bother him and walk around sulking all day, and or he will think I'm joking and laugh, and then be stunned as hell when I tell him I'm not joking...

I have been talking to my MIL lately last night in fact...she kept giving me the excuse that her son is still a child. FOR GOD'S SAKE. HE HAS TWO. I don't mind cutting up, tickling, his love affair with a cartoon show, the freaking amount of time he spends on the 360, his pissy little attitude when he has to wash the dishes once a month, or the fact that he leaves the bathroom door open when he's jacking off or taking a s-t, except for when my son is awake and running through the house. But hurting me is not a joke. And if he thinks it is that is not love, that has nothing to do with love. And I need to leave and seek real love elsewhere...

As I told his mother...unless he has a certificate of mental retardation, that states that he has the mind of a freaking 6 year old, his childishness is a mindset and a CHOICE. Something he can change. And I'm sure a lawyer would fight it out and prove that I should have been privy to that information, before I married him. I'm not saying I wouldn't have married him. I'm saying if I had aids/hiv, I would have had to disclose that to him right??? 

NO, I cannot just leave...27 month old child, 7 months pregnant. If that is going to happen I need to exhaust all options, counseling, mental health check-up (maybe for both of us), and THEN and only then can I get my ducks in a row and call a lawyer. You think I want my child being with someone alone that childish? For an extended period of time? Hell no. Even if it is his child. This isn't a 6 week relationship...it's not a text, or an email or even a suck up to her/him and drop the bomb and end it phone call. It's a freaking marriage. Takes a little more than just leaving.


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## Bloodymary (Oct 10, 2010)

In other words I'm willing to TRY to find something to keep my ass there. Why? 1 Because I actually love him still, I just don't want him to touch me...ever again...at this point. 2 Divorce would be more difficult for me, before durring and after, than it would for him. 
I come here for things that might work. And to see if anyone else has had this same problem or something like it. Plenty of women have or have had husband a$$holes. I'm just trying to find coping techniques. Maybe if I spit on my hand and rub it across my ....that will make things all better. Ehh, naw...no sex drive at the moment.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

not happy = no sex drive
try to solve internal issues
have more conversations, it seems all hell is breaking loose
look for good things in each other coz no one's perfect
find common interests
then become happy
coz being happy together = sex drive booster


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## MsLady (Dec 1, 2008)

How have things gone since your last post? My heart was breaking for you. And I am also worried for you because, honestly, your husband is just one step away from physically abusing you. He's already emotionally and sexually abusing you. There's no reason to not go to the next level and I suspect that time will come when you try to stand up for yourself and not accept the ****ty excuse of a human being that he is as the status quo.

So I'm hoping you are okay. Definitely try all avenues before moving on. It's important for your sake that you know you did all that you could to save your marriage. Sadly, I think the kind of man that you have on your hands is a lifelong project with a very bad prognosis of improving significantly before you are old and grey and bitter ... and before your children have suffered the consequences of living in a household with someone like that. 

If he doesn't give a **** about you --- and he doesn't because you are married to a narcissistic a**hole -- he won't possibly give a **** about your children. The first "proof" of that is that he would DARE masturbate with the door open when there's a small child around. That is horrific and shows zero conscience, zero concerns for others and zero parenting inklings. Who the **** does something like that? I bet if we probed further, there would be many, many more examples of not only how badly he treats you, but what a ****ty bad father figure he is. If he does nothing other than treat you like ****, that will harm your children. I hate it when people put up with awful marriages like the one you are in "for the sake of the children." Your child is better served spending one Saturday a week with this man than every.single.day. And he sounds so freakin selfish I can't imagine he would want a kid over to take care of anyway.

The "why" of why you love this person is something that, if I were you, I'd go to counseling to explore. I'm not saying this to be cruel, I'm saying it in the hopes that you can take a critical look at yourself ... but something must be wrong with YOU that you accept this kind of treatment and love someone so absolutely disgusting as to force his d*** into you without a care for your pain, as to let you bleed out your fetus while he's watching t.v. (and I don't give a crap about the whole "that's how he was coping" excuse ... seems like the way he "copes" with everything is by sh***ing on you). I don't buy it that he was "coping" with his "grief" in that way. The rest of the picture you have presented suggests it's more likely that he really just didn't care. Not just about the fetus. But didn't care about your pain as you held your dead baby's body in your arms ... just like he doesn't care about your pain as he shoves it into you. F-ing horrific!

I wouldn't raise children around someone like that (and a grandmother that fostered and condoned that kind of monster) even if I had to go on welfare and sleep on a relative's couch for a while.

Sorry ... I'm sooooooooooo angry for you. And so sad that you asked "what's wrong with me?" All that's "wrong with you" is that you think this man is worth loving and that this marriage is worth saving. It's not. You'll waste your youth away on this piece of sh*t only to look back and regret it.


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## Bloodymary (Oct 10, 2010)

I guess I should have added some back story...I came from a 2 year relationship where I tasted my own blood at least once a month for silly stupid little arguments. My son's biological father was physically abusive to me to a great extent, in fact I still find it hard to believe that I made it out of that war zone with my life. He was physically abusive...but get this...everything else about our relationship besides his inability to commit was perfect. He loved spending time with me, there was plenty of intimacy, and there was amazing and I mean freaking awesome sex.

I'm guessing my mind is now set in the rut that if I'm not getting a black eye every month and I'm not standing in front of the sink watching blood run out of my face or lip or the side of my mouth, and if he's not threatening to kill himself with his grandfather's gun when I attempt to leave for a few hours...everything is perfectly fine.......

I have found out differently obviously. Here is a simple copy of an email I sent him recently...I have taken things out I have not added anything in....

Email

About sex...I miss it, I miss you; but if my OB says no for whatever reason...I can't. 

And I don't want to be bugged about it until it happens...you tend to brush me off after sex, and we had a few issues before you left we need to talk about...either online here or when you get home before sex if it's allowed.

Sex Problem#1 We need to talk about:
When I say it hurts...that means it hurts...that means stop. That doesn't mean spit on your hand and rub it on your ****...that's not how it works for us/me anymore. There is nothing wrong with me...nothing wrong with my arousal time...if you can't wait the amount of time it takes to get my body ready for sex, then you need to take care of it yourself. I'm not going to put up with you saying you don't care if it hurts me any more either. If you can't think of things to do to make me aroused...I've told you things I enjoy already.

Sex Problem#2 We need to talk about:
I asked you before you left if you thought now that we are married that sex is all about you...you said that yes, it was all about you. Well it's not...it's about both of us and if you don't feel the same that's something else we need to bring up in counseling. If you are wondering why I had a disghusted look on my face after you said that...NO I didn't know you were joking. I'm sorry but that's not something I want to joke about. Counseling can wait until you get home but not long afterwards, things seem like they are going to get pretty nuts when you get out of your job and I'd like to have some of our issues solved before then.

Sex Problem #3 We need to talk about:
I understand you have been sexless for the last 8 months when you get home; however if two years down the road you still last all of 50 seconds...we need to seek some kind of help.
I don't know why you don't last longer and I'm sure it's frusterating for you too. I don't have the answers, obviously you don't know how to fix it, and well unless you just want to bring it up to your mom, I don't. Honestly, I get very little pleasure if any because of this problem. I have hope you will put yourself aside eventually, and seek help for this problem.

Sex is probably the biggest thing I'm worried about when you get home. I'm sorry but I'm very uncomfortable most of the time these days. And having someone jump up and down on my belly, or ride my ass is not really sexy right now. Actually what IS sexy right now...is; someone holding the door open for me, someone taking care of our toddler for a few hours so I can get some sleep, among other things. When you get home...if the baby is still inside me...I will be more pregnant than I have ever been. Am I saying a FLAT NO, no I'm not. I'm saying if it does happen and you treat me like you ususally do at home after sex...it's not happening again while you are here. I don't dissapear when you cum...I still exist. And when you totally avoid me and become a bit of an ass after you are done with me, it makes me not want to have sex again, it makes me feel like a freaking wh0re, and I am not a wh0re. And if it ends up not happening for whatever reason I have never had a problem with you going out to "Men's clubs" if you want. 

Your mom does a great job sticking up for you...telling me that you are still a child (I'm sorry..I didn't marry a child, besides I thought I married a man), and that you are a jokester, and that you wont really grow up until you are 40...well that needs to happen a lot sooner than 40. I love laughing, and joking and stuff...I don't enjoy you taking serious conversations and turning them into one big joke. I don't enjoy it when you joke about things that hurt me or would hurt me if they actually happened. If you can't be here for the baby's birth I understand, you don't have wings, you can't fly...but you joking about not wanting to be there even if you are in the same building....REALLY REALLY REALLY PISSES ME OFF. That's also something that's not funny. If you remember correctly I was abandoned at 2 years old...our toddler is now older than I was when he left. My mother didn't feel like raising me so she handed me off to the state and then several different families WHO ALSO ABANDONED ME, I ended up back here, with my other family. Don't joke about abandoning me...especially when I'm having YOUR/OUR child. That's just freaking mean. I'm done having your mom fight my battles for me...I don't even know if she talked to you about this joking stuff, but she said she did. I'm your wife and I should be able to talk to you about things that bother me and you should be man enough not to say "Whatever, I don't care, sure, ok." 

I love you but if the communication between us doesn't improve with the joking and the sex stuff, I know we are headed for some tough times. And I don't want that.

End of email.


That is the first time I have stood up for myself verbally in our relationship. We've been married a little less than a year now. He hasn't gotten back to me yet. He has said that he has gotten the email. I'm sure this would be hurtful to anyone getting this email. I knew of no other way to simply state the facts of the problems we have to face. That I don't think he saw as problems. There will be a mandatory apology required before any part of him...besides his child that is inside me right now...is allowed back inside me. AND GET THIS....I'M NOT ASKING FOR THE APOLOGY...if he can't find it in his head that he needs to apologize to his WIFE for saying that it doesn't matter to him that sex is painful to her, he forfits his physical rights to me. 

With the kind of work he does I will be alone most of the time for the next 10 years. Right now...I'm actually kinda happy about that. I don't have to turn him down. Yes...neither of us, (I HOPE), have had sex for the last several months...when he gets home it will be 8 months since (hopefully) either him or I has had sex. Thank goodness. 

I'm sure I'm still the bad guy in his eyes...in his mother's eyes...however until I take every road that might possibly lead to reconciliation in every way for us...I cannot leave, my personal vision of myself is more important than what anyone thinks of me...and if I need to explain to my babies when they are old enough that I knew how it was to grow-up without a father, and that I didn't want that for them and I would have put up with just about anything to keep them with BOTH parents. Well at least 2 that aren't violent, suicidal, or alcoholics/drug users. However...this is not the ideal situation in no way shape or form.


Thanks for the sympathy...however I wish I didn't need it...one way or the other


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> Much insight!!! Scannerguard! That helps, almost literally opens windows into "possibly" what was going on with him durring the whole thing. I will never be seen at that hospital again, had to switch insurance and go with lower coverage for the entire pregnancy and 3 months after (a year) before I can move back up to full coverage.
> Anyhow...his mother tried to explain the same thing you did, but listening to her was clouded by the fact he was her son. You have no emotional stock in my husband so why would you need to make excuses for him? Bro's first!!! J/k!!!
> I'm still not getting the whole thing of him actually telling me he'd have rather been elsewhere and not just because it was "uncomfortable" for him...but that it was unimportant, and what needed his attention on his business trip was more important than being with me. Wanted to physically slap him when he finished saying that but of course I didn't. About 2 weeks later, a dog he grew up with died and I was thrown back into depression about why he could be visibally hurt by the dogs passing and not the death of our child. His mother kept telling him I wasn't the same woman he married and that somehow the miscarriage had made me a freaking basket case...at that point in time I would have liked to shoot her.


I hope I never sounded like I was excusing his behavior.

There are two entities that can be confused:

Explanations.
Excuses.

Trying to perhaps think the best of your husband, I was offering a reason, an explanation of why he was so detached during that horrible procedure you endured.

But I also have to entertain another possibility, another explanation:

That your husband just isn't that great of a guy.

Really, that has to be on the table too.

And Mom is going to have to realize that no matter how much she tries, she just can't constantly explain away his behavior forever. Somewhere along the line, he has to explain, apologize or try to excuse. . .she's not his attorney. He has to be contrite and seek absolution and forgiveness and penance and atonement and all of those things that adults do in relationships to repair when an inevitable calamity happens.

But perhaps he has had this dysfunctional relationship all of his life.

Junior does wrong in school.
Mom explains away and excuses the reasons why ("Junior has had it hard at home"; "Junior just doesn't get it - he's really not a bad guy")

Yadda, yadda.

I still worry though there is a disconnect there - you wrote, "I held our child."

I don't want to get into a philosophical, theological argument, especially in your time of grief, about whether a fetus can have personhood. Like I said, I am really sorry for your deep pain and loss.

Some philosophers say it can be a person and some say it can't and there are well reasoned arguments on both sides.

But no matter what. . .I think even the most sensitive man, and the one who subscribes to the idea it can be a person, at a few weeks pregnant can't possibly think of that fetus as a "child." 

I'd like you to entertain the idea that is a female perspective.

That's why a dog's death would upset a man maybe more than a miscarriage. He had a relationship with that dog but had no relationship whatsoever with your loss.

Again. . .I am extending the courtesy of trying to think the best of your husband in that circumstance.

And I am glad you communicated the sexual frustration you had via email.

The only thing I think that could have been added was you didn't ask him if he was satisifed, other than the decreased frequency of sex. You just went off on how you were let down (and hey, you have some legitimate beefs there, no doubt). But, as a guy, I love quickies as much as the next guy but even I wouldn't have wanted every session to be a quickie. This is where I am having a hard time even explaining your guy here. In fact, somewhere midway though my sex life deterioration I remember being immensely frustrated that my wife only wanted to get it over with quickly and was denying me foreplay on her and her on me and the other sensual and erotic parts of sex. 

One day I said, "No, I don't want a quickie. I want a longie."

I think I am pretty normal here too and most guys here would say the same thing - they wouldn't want every sex session to be a 55 second ordeal (let alone causing their partner pain - if it's one thing that can deflate me, it's an "Ouch!" - as a guy, I want to hear, "OMG! That feels soooooo good in there!" Inevitable "ouchs!" happen but he should be sensitive to this.

Does have any other influence, any male influence in his life - a friend or a brother or someone to tell him how to be a lover?

So. . .back to my original thesis - based on what you only present here, I do have to entertain the possibility your guy is a Lout. 

And I am not sure there is therapy for that


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## Bloodymary (Oct 10, 2010)

I believe our child was a human, had basic human rights (in my eyes), and had a soul from the moment of conception, before I had any idea, much less anyone else had any idea it was inside me. Doubt that belief will ever change for any reason. Sure...we can put the importance of an animal over a human life, no matter how young...that's normal these days. 

He came home 2am Thanksgiving morning...sat on the side of the tub while I pissed on the little plastic stick he brought me. After 3 minutes we looked at it together, and both were happy when it said we had created something beautiful. We both were happy when we told our families. We both were happy when I had that first ultrasound at 6 weeks 3 days that showed a tiny "peanut" looking form with a beating heart. He showed the pictures off to his friends...so did I, a copy of the ultrasound picture was put on the fridge at his parents house. Nope it meant nothing to him...he had nothing to do with anything about that child. Sorry...but don't buy that. Do I think there was more time invested with the dog...yes...I loved that dog too and I knew her for just a few months. HE DIDN'T CREATE THE DOG...HE WASN'T THE DOGS FATHER...THE DOG WASN'T HIS OFFSPRING...and if I'm supposed to kinda believe that men think nothing of a child until it's out and screaming it's head off in the hands of the OB, in the Operating room or the birthing suite, you are trying to convince me that they still think of the moving seeing kicking functioning life inside their wife/girlfriend/live-in as still just a wad of sperm, like that which ends up in the toilet, or in the toe of a sock, or maybe after a few hours...as a white stain on the bedsheets, that's not happening, and is kinda comical.:scratchhead:

I'm open to all beliefs...but I stick to mine, and mine are the only ones that make sense to me and help me direct my life...emotions...choices.

NO...I don't believe he felt nothing about the child (whatever you'd like to call it). But then again...maybe he didn't. Maybe he doesn't FEEL at all...maybe that's our problem. OUR problem... regardless if it is his disfunction.

If he wants to tell me how he feels...he can...I have asked him...multiple times...if he's happy with me...if there's anything I can do differently to make him happier with me. His answer has always been "NO". What else can I do? Drug him with truth serum and then ask him...last time I checked that was illegal. I don't want to "force" him to do anything...I want him to do everything he does by choice. I'm not his mother...I'm his wife/life partner/supposedly supposed to be his best friend...don't really feel that vibe right now though. I'm doing what I can to save my marriage and that is sufficient for me. The waiting is killing me but it's only about 10 weeks until we can be face to face again. Mixed emotions about that still, but it's the next step and I've got my steppin' shoes on. Got the raw hide between my teeth and I'm ready for whatever happens. Patience is growing by leaps and bounds right now...I don't think he wants to discuss this over the internet. I don't really think he wants to discuss it at all...but if the issues I addressed to him in that email aren't important enough to him to discuss...I need to contact legal counsel. If he's not going to discuss them with me...what makes me think he will willingly discuss them with a counselor.

Anyhow...sure he acted like a butt head...I act like a butt head at least once a day...but when I need to "grow a pair" and woman up I can. Not sure why he can't. I still love him...and the more I think back to when I first met him, the more I want to salvage what is left...regardless of the burnout effect on me. I also believe that when we got married, it was a promise for forever...and that I ceased to exist and that he ceased to exist and that WE started existing as one. Who gives a crap what it does to me...if whatever eventually has to happen saves our marriage/life together/ HAPPY LIFE TOGETHER, so be it.

I'm hard headed, a bit of a b*tch at times, and one hell of an a$$hole when it comes to defending my children...alive or dead. But there are a few good things left....

Besides that...I've witnessed men brought to tears in amazement at the sight of their child on the monitor of an ultrasound machine.


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## Bloodymary (Oct 10, 2010)

Here's how it went...I pushed the subject a bit...but as I've said I'm ready for my head not to be so crowded. The subject of the m/c is not something I bring up between us anymore...I'm done with that when it comes to me and him. Does it still bother me...yes...can he or I change anything about that time...no. So why not drop it? Thought I'd share how some of it went. Granted we still have to be face to face again...in several weeks but because this has come out it will be easier to be that way.

m-Are you planning to get back to me about the email...or do you want to deal with it all when you get home?
D-no wasnt planning on it
m-wasn't planning on what?
D-getting back with you about it
m-So we weren't going to address it at all?
D- i dont know
m-Ok...do you agree it's something that needs to be talked about and dealt with?
D- i guess so
m-Ok so...
D- if that s the way you feel i wont touch you unless u inciate it cause i dont need it i went yrs with out it it doesnt bother me
m-That's your solution?
D- yep
m- So you don't want to get whatever is wrong figured out and dealt with so it can be put behind us?
D- nope
m-Why not?
D- cause my job here is to make sure that your happy i dont care about what i want or need
m- Our goal as husband and wife is to take care of each other in every way we can possibly. 
D-plus i dont like fightin so that why i sit there and let you yell at me with out me sayin anything
m-I'm not trying to yell...and I thought we could handle this better before you got home so it couldn't possibly get heated. 
D-ok
m- I want to be with you sexually...that's a big part of marriage. But we have some problems in that area that need to be solved. 
D- ok
m- Do you want to solve them with me or do you want to leave them the way they are?
D- i dont care im here to make you happy and i dont care about my self
m- You should care about yourself. 
D- i really dont as long as your happy
m- I care about myself...I mean I'm not telling you what to do but...what if you aren't happy?
D-im happy as long as your happy but you come 1st
m- Don't you understand that I want you to be happy?
Well you come first in my mind. And if I'm failing in making you feel like that I need to know what I'm doing wrong...
D- your not doin anything wrong
m- If I can't/don't want to sleep with you...I am doing something wrong...but I can't force myself to be ok with how things were going before you left. In that department...in every other way we're fine...I can trust you, I can depend on you, I can respect you. I can't be ok with neglecting our sex life. 
That's part of loving you...the physical part...and I'm not ok with not doing it. 
D- ok ill fix what ever you want
m-There just needs to be more time between..."I'm hyper"....and when you go in. More touching, more kissing, maybe a little bit of talking. Because when I'm ready it will be f-king awesome for both of us. And I wouldn't have a complaint in the world. 
D-ok you just have to let me know cause i dont know when your ready
m- You will know!!! haha!!! but maybe we could try telling each other or me telling you what's going on every now and then when we're doing it for the first couple times. I know it's a tad bit hard to listen when you're "ready", but...might that help??
D- um yeah we can try that
m- And I have no idea what to do to help you last a little longer...maybe it's cause you went years without it...and it's just soo happy to finally have some agian!!! 
maybe that will change over time...
D-i think that is it\
m- Most of the times we did it before you left were great!!! It only hurt some of the times...but I couldn't "get back into it" after it hurt. 
D- oh ok
m- Were you joking about that one thing? From the email? I thought you were kinda cause you had a silly grin on your face...but I took it the wrong way and it hurt.
D-i guess i joke alot i was def jokin about me watchin tv in the wait room while you givin bith or in the delivery room wacthin the bowl games
m- I knew after a few times of you saying that...But no...It will mean a lot to me if you can be there...more than you know. 


Granted there was more to the conversation...but...that's the part I felt I needed to share with you for your insight and advice. I will post again when we are face to face. That will be the final test. You see this has been going on for months...and I just finally got fed up with thinking about it and needed to get it out. 

Yes...no, everything isn't fixed...we need to work on communication and intimacy, but with this big stuff out of the way...that can come through naturally.

Thank you all again.


Bloodymary


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

You see, this is what I didn't want to happen. . .having you defend your viewpoints theologically. I respect them but just realize no matter what your viewpoint, it's about "feeling" and you don't always have control over those feelings.

A. Yes, some men are moved to tears by the sight of an ultrasoudn of the baby they created and are in awe of the Miracle of Life. TV and movies like to characterize this about all Dads.

B. Some men feel nothing. Some men (including me) think all babies look like aliens when they are born.

That being said, women, for some reason, can often find all children/kids/toddlers/babies "cute." I only found my own cute, maybe after the 3-6 month mark. But yours aren't "cute." Only mine are.

Maybe that makes me a lout, not sure but I am being totally honest with you.

Your kids, mem's kids, BBW's kids, SA's kids, - you could show me pictures all day, ultrasounds, etc, and I'll nod, "Oh, aren't they cute?" and "Wow. . .what a wonder of life!" when I really am just being polite.

Just like the Seinfeld episode. . ."Jerrryyyyyyy. . .you comin' over to see da' babeeeeee?" and Jerry looks less than thrilled.

Then again, Jerry, George, Elaine and Kramer had the sensitivity of me and your husband perhaps, which is why on the final episode the writers sent them to jail for a year.

I am not proud of this. . .and many guys amongst themselves when they are not in earshot of any women (moms or wives) will admit their feelings about babies.


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## geekchick (Oct 23, 2010)

I've never felt so dirty reading something in my life. I need a shower. He's worse than a jerk, he's a scumbag! A selfish SOB who deserves to be drugged out into the street and have the crap beat out of him. How dare he leave you to watch t.v when you just went through the horrible miscarriage. He could of helped clean you of. IT was his kid too. The bastard. As for spitting and rubbing. COME ON! Your feelings matter. It sounds like rape. Why do some woman think we are required to have sex with our husbands when they want to? We aren't. Sex is about two people satisfying one another not one satisfying himself and causing pain. He obviously does not care a rats behind about you. Coming from a divorced family I can tell you I was okay with it. My dad was abusive to my mother and she put of with him for so long. When I asked her why she said it was because a child need their father. That's bull. She's much happier, remarried and in a healthy relationship. Men like him are the reason the show 'Snapped' was produced...


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## Bloodymary (Oct 10, 2010)

Scanner...not from tv...from actually being in the room. Not all men are heartless and emotionless. Really... And about it being a woman's perspective...isn't it a woman who walks into the abortion clinic to kill the "alien" that is about to take over every aspect of her life??? And because it's still an issue for me...if he could have pretended to care durring the miscarriage...it would have saved us from months of arguments that I'm sure he didn't like. But then again maybe he doesn't care? 

My next thread will be...WHO THE CRAP DECIDED MEN CAN'T HAVE FEELINGS, CARE ABOUT STUFF?
Because there are some who do.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

You are married to a neanderthal. As long as you want to insist you will not divorce him, you will remain married to a neanderthal.


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