# men and porn?!?!?!? even with available wife?



## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

Hi again Didn't think I would be posting again....but here I am. I don't mind h looking at porn every now and then but I don't understand the need to look at it every free second of the day when he's home?!?!? He will refuse to go on a walk with me to look at it... he will wait until I get into the shower to look at it. He has even started looking at it in the sunroom where it's open to anyone who walks in. ( although the computer he uses is password protected to the kids can't just open the browser). I understand the need when I am not serviceable or if I say I'm not in the mood. However, he flirts with me to think we will actually do something that evening but then will look at the porn and just get cold. I don't know what's the issue?!?!?!? We used to go out on date night to talk once a week now it's date night only to movies or dinner so we can't talk. He doesn't even try to be romantic anymore. It's are we gonna do it... or can we do it tonight. I roll over and just become the proverbial "bucket". Yup we've been married for 17 years but jeesh I STILL NEED ROMANCE!!! at least sometime. gentle caressing, a nibble here and there,a seductive heart stopping kiss....something!! not just h looking at porn and a wam bam thank you mamme!! I really want MORE LOVE MAKING not just sex or nothing at all!!! HELP


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Have you actually expressed these things to him? I'm not trying to be funny here but there are people who instead of directly telling their spouse what they want from him/her, they expect their spouse to literally read his/her mind. I hope that you are not one of these people. 

He must be told that there is this very important issue that if he's not willing to help resolve, then you may end separating and or divorcing him. Others in similar situations have had affairs - always a bad choice - because of this. Make sure you convey the seriousness of the issue otherwise he may think its just a passing phase you are going through and keep on using porn. He's playing with fire and unless you tell him with conviction, he's going to get burned.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

I agree 100% with communication!!! For a relationship to thrive or even survive there must be communication....That's another issue! hehehe I wouldn't ever divorce him or leave him for lack of sensual love making.... although I REALLY want it. I love him to death but he's a pig when it comes to romance and sensitivity. He is FULLY aware of how I feel we have talked about it for 17 years now and we just don't agree.... he see's no problem with the porn and obviously isn't going to stop. I've expressed to him that I think that the porn is distorting his perception on sexual relations with his partner. They don't have foreplay and just grab and grope...nothing sensual of seductive about it. So I think he must think that's the norm?!?! He complains that I don't show enthusiasm...but who besides paid professional or wanna be amateur porn stars will scream with pleasure for being pounded like meat?!?!


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

2sick said:


> I wouldn't ever divorce him or leave him for lack of sensual love making.... although I REALLY want it. I love him to death but he's a pig when it comes to romance and sensitivity.


Many men and women in sex starved marriages also loved their spouses but sadly fell into an affair because they chose not to end their sexless marriage. I hope that you never have an affair but If you paint yourself into a corner, then an affair becomes a very distinct possibility. It wouldn't be surprising that your body may be sending out vibes and it only takes one very perceptive man to try to take advantage of the situation. With the exception of your husband and any other male relatives, you must avoid having any social contact with other men. This as well as never being alone with another man, should be the boundaries you must observe and respect in order to avoid falling into an affair.




> He is FULLY aware of how I feel we have talked about it for 17 years now and we just don't agree.... he see's no problem with the porn and obviously isn't going to stop. I've expressed to him that I think that the porn is distorting his perception on sexual relations with his partner. They don't have foreplay and just grab and grope...nothing sensual of seductive about it. So I think he must think that's the norm?!?! He complains that I don't show enthusiasm...but who besides paid professional or wanna be amateur porn stars will scream with pleasure for being pounded like meat?!?!


You're absolutely right that porn distorts reality on how men and women turn each other on. It would probably be a safe bet to say that even many of the women in porn also want to be romanced in their private lives by their BF or their SO. After all, they are women just like you and with many of the same emotional needs that you and other women have.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

The way you describe your husband, it almost sounds like he has an unhealthy obsession with porn, or even an addiction to it. Is he masturbating to it multiple times a day? Chronic masturbation sometimes is not so much of an indicator of a super high drive as it can be an indication of something more psychosomatic - such as an anxiety or stress reliever.

How long has this been going on? When it started what was going on at that time?

You are going to have to "gird your loins" and "screw your courage to the sticking place". Be firm and resolute. Let your husband know what your boundaries are on this. Let there be consequences if he is not willing to work this out. If you don't, you will never be even one step closer to what you need in your marriage.

Sometimes you have to make a bigger mess when you clear out your closet before it can be put back in to order again. Don't fear that mess. Your husband needs a shake-up in order to wake up.

“_The greatest barrier to success is the fear of failure.” ~ Sven Goran Eriksson _ 

Best wishes.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

My name is Ian Ironwood. I work in porn. I'm happily married. The two are not mutually exclusive.

HOWEVER . . . 

While I love porn, the pornosphere, and all of its accouterments, it has a TIME and a PLACE. When your wife is feeling rejected, it's time to turn off the computer.

In fact, my advice to you would be to change the password on his computer, and then give it back to him one letter at a time. He gets a letter for each day successfully engages with you on an intimate level. It's a fun game, if you do it right and your husband is somewhat playful about it. But if he gets pissed off that you cut him off from his porn, you should probably say something like this:

1) I know I interrupted your personal happy play time. I assure you that this interruption is temporary, and designed entirely to get your attention. Now. Do I have your attention? Your complete and undivided attention? Good. The sooner we can get through this, the sooner you can get your password back.

2) Now that I have your attention, I want to inform you that I'm not getting enough ****. Yes, I said ****. Now, I'd prefer to get it from you, and wrapped up in a nice romantic package, but your recent behavior is starting to drive me batty and at this point I just need some **** or I'll get really batty. And you wouldn't like me when I'm batty. You think a changed password is a problem? Keep this up, and you'll come home one day and find your computer has been traded to the kid down the street for his XBox. But this is a problem, and it's one I wanted to inform you about.

3) I know, intellectually, that men enjoy watching porn -- heck, you may even need to watch porn. I'm not judging you about that. I'm judging you because I am feeling neglected, and since you seem more intrigued by the computer than me, I'm starting to take it personally.

4) If there is a problem with our sex life, spell it out now. I won't say a word. Just tell me what your issue is, and I will think about how I can best respond to it. There must be an issue, since you're neglecting me, and if it is safe and within my power to correct, I'm happy to consider it. I'm willing to do research, I'm willing to study, I want you to be happy. But I want to be happy too, and that means some more focused attention on me.

5) My physical condition, if that is an issue, can change to a certain extent -- but if you've suddenly decided that I just don't have the 44FFs you dream about, you'll have to be content with what I have while you fantasize about them. Believe me, there are some things about you that I'd fix if I could. But I can't. We must learn to live with (and ****) the person we married. My weight, hairstyle, and hair color, not to mention my manner of dress, are all adaptable within a certain range. I'm open to considering a change, but I need some direction.

6) If there is something that we do in bed that you'd like to change, I'm open to that, too. But if you don't tell me, I'm just going to start trying random things until I get a reaction. For example, to night is "Strap On Night". Unless you have a better suggestion . . . ?

7) I can appreciate you aren't getting what you want out of our sex life. I'm not either. You're behavior is callous, uncaring, and unloving, and while I'm doing my best to get a handle on it, it is also having an affect on my emotions. Right now I'm in "sympathetic wife mode". If this doesn't work, I'm looking into "Cast Iron B!tch Mode". And then things can get ugly.

8) I'm not adverse to you watching porn. I just want some attention. And since you aren't giving it to me, I need to do some research. I'm going to log onto the computer and you're going to watch some porn . . . right here, right now. I'm going to see what you think is so entrancing and see if I can't learn something about your personal sexual style through it. And yes, I expect you to whip it out and whack it. In fact, I'm pretty much going to insist on it. I haven't seen it in so long I've forgotten what it looks like, and if I can't touch it I can at least watch it in action.

9) My desire for romance isn't unreasonable, difficult, or expensive. I don't need diamonds or even roses. I do need you to act like you give a damn whether we're together or not, and if a major cast iron b!tch freak-out is what it is going to take to spur you on, I can order one. I figured you'd appreciate the carrot before the stick, though, so I'm trying this route first.

10) If you are bored with our relationship, then I can find some ways to make it more interesting. I didn't say better, I said "more interesting". And no, I'm not going to give you any details. I'm going to let that sit out there and make you think. And I'm going to wait expectantly for you to show some signs of life. That means a date where we talk and laugh and hold hands and you don't feel like a pu$$y, you're going to feel like a real man dating a real woman. That means some effort on both of our parts. And it might be worth your while. You haven't even begun to plumb the depths of my hidden kinky nature, and you're missing out on that opportunity because you're so convinced you can't have the sex life you want you stopped trying. SO I'm putting you on notice: You can have the sex life you want if you a) tell me what you want b) start acting like a boyfriend and husband and not a **** and c) invoke my aid and my loving heart, not my ire and my lust for vicious revenge. 

OK, sweetie? Oh, and I've already made arrangements for our next date night. Your job is to show up freshly showered, shaved, and wearing something appropriate for a formal dinner. No, I didn't say we were going to a formal dinner. We're going to get the first letter of your password back. You want to look good for that, don't you?


Hey, it's a place to start. And if it helps, tell him that professional porn guys don't neglect their wives for porn. On the contrary. We like pu$$y. It's kind of why we went into the business.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

morituri said:


> You're absolutely right that porn distorts reality on how men and women turn each other on. It would probably be a safe bet to say that even many of the women in porn also want to be romanced in their private lives by their BF or their SO. After all, they are women just like you and with many of the same emotional needs that you and other women have.


So does romance. From another perspective, it could be argued that the general literary ideal of romance, from the OPs perspective, could be distorting _her _perspective on what is proper and appropriate romantic behavior for a man to display. Don't blame it on the porn. The porn isn't the problem. HE is the problem. Fix him, and the porn will be a non-issue.

And yes, pornstars in steady relationships (and there are plenty) do indeed insist on romance in their relationships. And if they don't get it . . . well, there is literally a line of dudes willing to replace the men in their lives if given the chance.


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## chattycathy (Aug 19, 2011)

It can be an addiction. 
Sounds like his IS.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

chattycathy said:


> It can be an addiction.
> Sounds like his IS.


No, it doesn't sound like his is. It sounds like he's terminally bored with his sex life and turns to porn because he doesn't have enough of a clue about his own sexuality or how to invoke the kind of sex life he wants with his wife, so he's turning to fantasy instead.

That's not porn addiction. That's a coping strategy. If she gets out in front of this and confronts it head-on, she can take care of the problem. But the problem isn't porn, it's his inattention. Porn is a convenient scapegoat, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the proper scapegoat.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> No, it doesn't sound like his is. It sounds like he's terminally bored with his sex life and turns to porn because he doesn't have enough of a clue about his own sexuality or how to invoke the kind of sex life he wants with his wife, so he's turning to fantasy instead.
> 
> That's not porn addiction. That's a coping strategy. If she gets out in front of this and confronts it head-on, she can take care of the problem. But the problem isn't porn, it's his inattention. Porn is a convenient scapegoat, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the proper scapegoat.


I have to completely disagree with you Ian. I am the 40 DD and can rock his world far better than any porn chick can! The problem isn't he doesn't get what he wants...It's I DON'T GET WHAT I WANT!!! I'm so tired of trying to please him the way the porn stars do and pretend that ooh ooh baby I love it!! I just want gentle loving kisses and foreplay that lasts longer than five minutes if I don't talk him into giving me a lotion down after my bath!!! I hate to disagree but what porn movie shows a loving caring sensual relationship?!?!? It's always oh see a biotch bend her over and ram my #*#* in her any which way I can think! Not sure how romantic that is! Yes it's all pretend but the perception is that that is what women like. He says he enjoys watching the women who REALLY look like they are enjoying it...I say maybe I need to take acting lessons because a quick boob squeeze and fingers in the #&#*&#* ain't gonna make me wet and squeal with pleasure....not sure many woman would. I'm just saying... but thanks for the input anyway.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

2sick said:


> I have to completely disagree with you Ian. I am the 40 DD and can rock his world far better than any porn chick can! The problem isn't he doesn't get what he wants...It's I DON'T GET WHAT I WANT!!! I'm so tired of trying to please him the way the porn stars do and pretend that ooh ooh baby I love it!! I just want gentle loving kisses and foreplay that lasts longer than five minutes if I don't talk him into giving me a lotion down after my bath!!! I hate to disagree but what porn movie shows a loving caring sensual relationship?!?!? It's always oh see a biotch bend her over and ram my #*#* in her any which way I can think! Not sure how romantic that is! Yes it's all pretend but the perception is that that is what women like. He says he enjoys watching the women who REALLY look like they are enjoying it...I say maybe I need to take acting lessons because a quick boob squeeze and fingers in the #&#*&#* ain't gonna make me wet and squeal with pleasure....not sure many woman would. I'm just saying... but thanks for the input anyway.


a) I watch far more porn than you do. There are plenty that show a loving, caring, sensual relationship. Most of them aren't a dude's first choice for stroking, however, as that isn't the primary sexual motivator for men.

b) If he's an authenticity maven, then perhaps he does feel your responses aren't enthusiastic (which, given the foreplay you describe, sounds accurate). He's also got a voyeuristic streak, apparently. Perhaps you could kill three birds with one stone with a solo show next time. 

c) You have told him what you want, in very explicit language, haven't you? When you've had his complete and undivided attention? Or have you just complained in general terms that he isn't being romantic enough? Expecting a dude to gush with romance spontaneously makes as much sense as a woman getting thoroughly aroused at a nipple pinch. I mean, was he romantic before you got married? How much? In what capacity? My point is that maybe he is getting what he wants and you aren't, but if he doesn't know it, and hear it in very specific and literal terms, he isn't going to clue in. 

There are literally dozens of "porn" videos (sexually explicit, that is) that you both can watch together that can train him to slow down and be more mindful and sensual . . . and unless you've asked him point-blank, his hesitancy may, indeed, be springing from an utter lack of knowledge. Or utter boredom with your (mutual) sexual repertoire. The thing is, it sounds like you haven't confronted him on this and are instead getting upset about the porn (which isn't the real problem). 

Let me tell you a little secret: Guys, no matter what age, are very literal and kind of stupid about the subtleties typically employed by women to communicate their emotional and physical needs. So we'll be having a perfectly normal conversation that is absolutely laden with hidden meaning and we'll miss it completely, until our wives completely lose it for (to us) no apparent reason. Only a very few special individuals have an intuitive enough knowledge of the other gender to be able to "translate" these subtextual communications effectively. And yes, guys do it too.

So while you're frustrated because he seems so cavalier about sex, and so unresponsive to your emotional and non-sexual physical needs, he's probably thinking that everything is perfectly fine because _you haven't come to him and said anything!_ He probably doesn't have a clue what you're upset about, except that it has something to do with his porn, and that puts him in a position where he gets defensive. Because no man likes to feel judged for his porn.

Now, if you seriously lay it out for him, let him know you're unhappy with his behavior, and you want you both to take positive steps to change it, you might get what you want out of him. This process will no doubt be aided by a mutual communication, in which he tells you what parts of the relationship he's unhappy with, too. 

Otherwise, it's just going to look like you are demanding "more romance!" without any elaboration, and that's just going to piss him off and confuse him. It would be like him looking at you and saying "I wish you were more wild in bed" (which is about the dumbest thing a husband can say to his wife, or at least the most tactless and least effective.) After all, what does "wild" mean? To some men it would be wearing sexy lingerie. To others it would be more oral. To others it would involve latex, a leather harness, a vat of Crisco, an ant farm and a baseball bat. The point is, you wouldn't know with such a vaguely-worded request. 

I suppose what shocks me the most about reading this sort of complaint so many times is that most husbands and wives have no freakin' clue what their partner actually wants, because most of the time they arrive with such profound preconceived notions of what a "healthy marriage" is that are completely at odds with the reality of the situation that they just don't have the ability to communicate something that intimate to their partner. Or worse, they don't really have any interest in pursuing it, and are willing to let their partner's sexuality develop outside of their purvue and make do with those random, haphazard encounters which are measured not by how good they were, but by how bad they weren't.

I mean, do you know exactly what kind of porn your husband watches? Does he know about your fantasies, both sexual and non-sexual? Does he know what you mean by "romance"? Do you know how often he masturbates? Does he know often you masturbate, and how? Does he know what kind of men you're attracted to? Does he know your favorite vacation spot? Does he know you intimately enough to "be romantic" without spending an entire paycheck to do so? Do you know how each other like to be kissed, or do you just know what you like and expect the other person to read your mind? 

I know tons about sex (Sex Nerd, natch) but I also know tons about romance. I didn't absorb either field of knowledge overnight. I spent years discussing that sort of thing with my wife to the point where now I can WOW her romantically in breathtaking ways . . . and she knows what pleases me (and us!) in the bedroom. But it didn't happen telepathically. It was hard work, fraught with mis-communications and mistakes, and a large part of it was learning not to take for granted what the other personal "naturally" thought we said.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

Ian Thanks! That is very insightful. I have to agree with you. We'll definitely sit down and talk to make sure that EACH of our view points is truly understood. Although I believe he understand what I am saying because he was soo romantic and passionate in our earlier years, and I tell him just try to seduce me like when we were dating... but you are probably correct he is probably clueless as I am to his view.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

2sick said:


> Ian Thanks! That is very insightful. I have to agree with you. We'll definitely sit down and talk to make sure that EACH of our view points is truly understood. Although I believe he understand what I am saying because he was soo romantic and passionate in our earlier years, and I tell him just try to seduce me like when we were dating... but you are probably correct he is probably clueless as I am to his view.


Thank you for having an open mind, and good luck with your talk. For maximum impact, have it in neutral territory, and try not to phrase things in judgmental ways. It will help.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> Thank you for having an open mind, and good luck with your talk. For maximum impact, have it in neutral territory, and try not to phrase things in judgmental ways. It will help.


Just wanted to update!!! 
I feel like and ass!!! We had a wonderful talk and an even more wonderful evening...if ya know what I mean. Today he even put our romance talk to action!!!! I had an absolutely horrible morning...what could go wrong did go wrong!! I had called to just complain about how crappy things were going and to remind h that I had an hair appointment. He being the man that he is..surprised me with a delivery of flowers!! He COMPLETELY melted my heart knowing that he was listening and wanted to make me happy (both last night and being ubber sappy today!!  <3


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

2sick said:


> Just wanted to update!!!
> I feel like and ass!!! We had a wonderful talk and an even more wonderful evening...if ya know what I mean. Today he even put our romance talk to action!!!! I had an absolutely horrible morning...what could go wrong did go wrong!! I had called to just complain about how crappy things were going and to remind h that I had an hair appointment. He being the man that he is..surprised me with a delivery of flowers!! He COMPLETELY melted my heart knowing that he was listening and wanted to make me happy (both last night and being ubber sappy today!!  <3


:smthumbup:

Keep it up - both literally and figuratively.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I don't necessarily think folks are going to burn in everlasting hell for looking at porn but it just never seemed like a productive use of time to me. If I had a willing partner nearby, I wouldn't be on this forum and I wouldn't be passively watching other folks have sex. 
Pretty much with everything, I ask myself how I'd feel if my wife did or said whatever I was tempted to. If it would bother me, I don't do it to her. Seems only fair.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

And yet Catholic priests and nuns, who have no skin in the game as it were, get to rant and rail about the failings of others....


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## Dax (Jun 11, 2011)

Sex with the wife gets old. Porn adds something different into the mix.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Ice cream hasn't changed much in a couple hundred years, either but I still eat it every chance I get and I'd enjoy eating it a whole lot more than watching someone else eat it.


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