# Difference Between Dating a Boy vs A Man



## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

Forget about all of that Alpha Male nonsense, this article tells it like it is....

http://justmytype.ca/11-differences-between-dating-a-boy-vs-a-man/


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

So, it's like a man is the alpha, and the boy is the beta?

And like with alphabeta 99% of men have a mix of both and are ever struggling with which ratio they are "supposed" to have, and yet again being told it's best to be all alpha (man).


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Then I'm roughly batting 50/50 and quite happy with who I am with my combination of the alpha/beta mix!

Reckon that this ol' dog is just a tad too old to start changing his spots now!*


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Link's broken, at least for me.

I'm not alpha or beta, I'm ntamph.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I Give the article a 




> *Lon said*:* So, it's like a man is the alpha, and the boy is the beta?*


 Did I miss something, I didn't see where the article said this.... according to those 10 points, my tipped Beta husband was A MAN when we met in his teens...he was always responsible/ hardworking, said what he meant, I could always count on him....wasn't a bar fly...he saved for the future, wanted family, he took initiative to get to know me, not afraid of commitment...and always....a strong moral compass.

Many articles I don't care for on the net these days - but this one was a good one. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ntamph said:


> *Link's broken, at least for me*.
> 
> I'm not alpha or beta, I'm ntamph.


Copying & pasting the 11 points here.... Not sure they should call the other *a Boy* though... just not the Committed Responsible type that cares about a woman's emotions or well being ... 


> *THE 11 DIFFERENCES BETWEEN DATING A BOY VS A MAN
> *
> *1.* A man knows what he wants, and goes for it. A boy may have somewhat of an idea, but not really. He doesn’t think too much about it, and even if he does, doesn’t exert much effort to get it. A boy is passive, a man is assertive.
> 
> ...


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

ntamph said:


> Link's broken, at least for me.
> 
> I'm not alpha or beta, I'm ntamph.


It's not really about alpha or beta. It seems to be a simple straw man. Men are assertive. Boys are passive. Men are accomplished. Boys aren't. Men are courageous. Boys are fearful.

So, if you're one of those PUAholes who insist that women are attracted to passive, fearful, unaccomplished men, well this blogger just posted a list of her opinions that shows just how wrong you are.


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## OrangeCrush1 (Oct 31, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> So, if you're one of those PUAholes who insist that women are attracted to passive, fearful, unaccomplished men


Who thinks that???

By the way, many of those 11 points I agree with, but that article was written by a woman and the feminine language was obvious even before I realized it was a woman's blog.

A woman writing about what a real man is....is usually going to be "off".


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Orange said: "A woman writing about what a real man is....is usually going to be "off". 


But a woman writing about what women WANT in a man...is usually right ON.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> But a woman writing about what women WANT in a man...is usually right ON.


Oh I smell a gender war coming on now 

lol


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

That's why I mentioned on the other thread "oh looky, someone opened a new one for us!"


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

OrangeCrush1 said:


> Who thinks that???


Well, nobody. That's the point. That's why the blog is a simple straw man.

The blog posts remind me of the age-old cliche that almost every man has experienced from a woman before. "It's not what you said, it's the WAY you said it."

Change the language a bit and revise a few of the points, and you've got a fairly standard PUA blog entry.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

OrangeCrush1 said:


> Who thinks that???
> 
> By the way, many of those 11 points I agree with, but that article was written by a woman *and the feminine language was obvious even before I realized it was a woman's blog.*


 I don't get this comment... ... I am hardly a feminist... probably the least likely candidate on this forum in female form...I am more old fashioned minded for sure....

What is it with all the straw man talk... what does this mean, can't you discuss the points, You men all think it is DIRT ??... really?



> *A woman writing about what a real man is....is usually going to be "off"*.


Read MY thread...though I can't take credit for it, it was originally a Black man's Blog.. I loved it so much ....and coming from a MAN... I did a thread on it... 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...thy-praise-honor-minus-alpha-beta-debate.html

This was his Blog.... 7 Traits of Real Men ...problems with this too, straw man talk?


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Copying & pasting the 11 points here.... Not sure they should call the other *a Boy* though... just not the Committed Responsible type that cares about a woman's emotions or well being ...


I don't know. 

I'm torn on some of those qualities. I agree with most.

But, this aggressive man... who knows what he wants and goes for it.

Do you want to be married to a man who is like that all the time... even with his wife? Who will sacrifice everything,... including a home life and being a father to the kids to get what he want's professionally?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> What is it with all the straw man talk... what does this mean, can't you discuss the points, You men all think it is DIRT ??... really?


I stated that it's a straw man. Because the blogger basically wrote what she thinks it attractive today, then claimed that she (and presumably more young women) think/thought that the opposite was attractive in the past. But that's obviously wrong.

Only a fool would claim that women, of any age, are attracted to fearful, unaccomplished, passive men. But the blogger makes exactly that assertion. Why? Because it's so easy to refute. That's the point of a straw man.

Techmom posting a link to this blog, along with the claim that it refutes the notion of alpha males appealing to women, is a validation of the straw man. If her definition of an alpha male is a passive, fearful, unaccomplished man that doesn't know what he wants and, if he did, isn't willing to try to get it, then she's not using the same definition the rest of the world is.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Orange said: "A woman writing about what a real man is....is usually going to be "off".
> 
> 
> But a woman writing about what women WANT in a man...is usually right ON.


BUT, is the "brochure" sometimes better than actually product?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

hambone said:


> I don't know.
> 
> I'm torn on some of those qualities. I agree with most.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't read it like that. Any quality can be taken too far. I think the blogger meant she is attracted more to aggression than to passivity. And I think that's true for most women.

But that doesn't mean women are attracted to blind, stupid levels of aggression and assertiveness.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

You can't be all serious man-oh-man all the time either, chill, take it easy and have fun with your missus


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Not sure what you mean, hambone?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Frankly speaking this is a woman's opinion and I have no problem with it.

In fact , it supports exactly what I've been saying all along on that other thread, and I'm glad the OP posted it.
Some women actually prefer dating " boys."

".._A girl is attracted to boys. A woman is attracted to men. Now, this has nothing to do with the actual age of a person. I’m referring to maturity, life vision and stage of life. In fact, some people regardless of their age, will never really grow up. You can switch the genders in this post and most points would likely still apply_.."

Here's the flip side about dating a girl vs a woman, which she posted, also found in that link:

*The 11 Differences Between Dating A Woman And A Girl.*

*1.* A girl throws tantrums. When displeased, upset or angry, she reacts just as she did as a child when she didn’t get her way with her parents. This often consists of screaming, pouting, giving the silent treatment, being passive aggressive and/or punishing. A woman still feels the emotions of being upset/displeased, but has cultivated the skill of responding versus reacting. She comes to the table as an adult, and communicates clearly what is bothering her.

*2.* A girl perceives herself as a princess and believes people should treat her like so. She is entitled and feels that she is owed and therefore expects more than she appreciates. A woman, has standards (what she holds herself to) not expectations (what she projects on to others).

*3.* A girl uses her physical beauty as her currency and basis of value. A girl may be so used to feeling validated through her looks and sexuality, that she uses this as her primary tool to get what she wants in life. A woman, knows her worth is beyond her physicality. A woman bases her value on her intelligence, her strength, her integrity, her values, her contributions, her humanity.

*4.* A girl banks on a man to be her financial strategy. A woman plans to be financially independent – she banks on… herself. And if she so happens to enter a relationship dynamic where it makes sense for her partner to be the primary breadwinner, it’s considered a bonus, not the expected life line.

*5.* A girl sees the world from a place of lack and scarcity. She competes and will even tear down another in order to secure resources or a mate. A woman helps other women. She knows that there’s plenty enough to go around and takes the high road of integrity to get what she wants.

*6.* A girl cannot be bothered with anything domestic and is proud of the fact that she cannot cook or clean. A woman understands that being domestic is not a duty, but understands that it is one way of taking care of herself and others. She also understands that in the event she wants to create a family, having a person in the household who can contribute domestically is important.

*7.* “A girl wants attention, a woman wants respect. A girl wants to be adored by many. A woman wants to be adored by one.” -anonymous

*8.* A girl does not respect her body. She has not yet understood that her body and heart are sacred, and that it’s important to be mindful of how she treats it and who she shares it with. “A girl cherishes handbags, diamonds and her shoe collection as her prize possessions. A woman cherishes her health, her sense of self, and her talents as her greatest assets.” – N. Mah

*9.* A woman takes the time to reflect on the type of human she wants to be, the example she wants to leave and the vision for her life. She has put thought into her values and what she stands for. A girl has not established her moral compass or values and consequently, is often inconsistent. *“After spending time with a girl, you feel exhausted because she takes more than she gives. After spending time with a woman, you feel invigorated, because she empowers you with possibility, and a passion for life.*” – N. Mah

*10.* A girl has a checklist that prioritizes superficial qualities above anything else. Here is an example of how this checklist may look: Hot, popular, wears skinny jeans, over 6 feet tall, rich.. This is the checklist of what a woman may look for: High integrity, intelligent, kind, good communicator, emotionally available…

Now, a lot of these differences require taking the time to know someone to figure out if the apple of your eye is indeed a mature woman, or someone with an immature mindset. However, one of the quickest filters that you can notice from the beginning is this:

*11.* A girl plays games. A woman doesn’t.

This one was posted in bold.

A girl jumps from one social circle to another, making fast friends that don’t last. A woman values her deep friendships and nurtures that bond with time, gratitude, energy and thoughtfulness.
~Nadia Mah

I find both lists to be fairly accurate, and they mirror each other. One set cannot exist without the other.
Little girls, and I'm not speaking about age, but grown " little girls " , prefer to date " little boys."
They always give serious minded , " nice guys " a hard time . They shun him like the plague.
They [ little girls & little boys ] both deserve each other, and the games they play on each other.


Edit:
The part highlighted in #9, is what drew me to my wife. That was the difference between her and the others.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

The article is good. Many truths to it. But to some degree it is a wish list. One of the problems with it is that the guy with all these terrific qualities can still disappoint a woman big time. Implicit in the strengths and certainties of this manly man, is the possibility that he will sleep with a woman for certain period of time and then dump her because he is a decisive person who will execute his life goals.



> A man knows when to invest in a woman and jump in with two feet. A boy is always “testing” – he doesn’t fully commit because he never knows if he is quite ready. But the truth is, because he is a boy, regardless of who he meets, he will never be ready due to the stage of life he is in.


A man can invest in a woman for sex. Given that the average age that people marry is later in life for both men and women, clearly statistically speaking, even the guys with self knowledge are not committing to women early in life.

Also, there a plenty of boyish beta types who like the security of girlfriend or wife. They will commit without much thinking because they feel more comfortable in a relationship than alone.

One thing is definitely rings true: women like men to have ambition. It turns them on to with a guy who is working and succeeding in accompishing those goals. They "fall in love" with security. It's very calculating.

This ignores the crazy animal passion is part of the process of making some guys into real men.

What would the author have made of Curt Cobain and George Harrison, neither of whom could have cut the mustard, according to this author's list?

The list is really identifies reliable providers, but not all the potentially interesting men. Still, I wish that I could have understood that list earlier life. I would have lived differently. Some of us are fated to be a work in progress when out best years have passed. Sad but true.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

PHTlump said:


> I stated that it's a straw man. Because the blogger basically wrote what she thinks it attractive today, then claimed that she (and presumably more young women) think/thought that the opposite was attractive in the past. But that's obviously wrong.
> 
> Only a fool would claim that women, of any age, are attracted to fearful, unaccomplished, passive men. But the blogger makes exactly that assertion. Why? Because it's so easy to refute. That's the point of a straw man.
> 
> Techmom posting a link to this blog, along with the claim that it refutes the notion of alpha males appealing to women, is a validation of the straw man. If her definition of an alpha male is a passive, fearful, unaccomplished man that doesn't know what he wants and, if he did, isn't willing to try to get it, then she's not using the same definition the rest of the world is.


Ok I read the article quickly... but what she spoke about women in their younger years seems to be right on...far too many claw after emotionally unavailable men who ignore them, use them, hurt them..... and after so many years of this roller coaster... these women wise up... is this not true for many.. what was wrong with that ??

I am not even sure where all this aggressive talk is even coming from...must have flew right over my head!

... I guess we see all see what we want to see.... Most of the stuff she said is how I feel..*and have ALWAYS felt*...I didn't have to go through an naive Girl phase clawing idiot Alpha males (which I would call worthless without a D*ck) to come to my senses .... 

I wanted an emotionally available honest, dependable guy....with integrity , morals and responsibilty...his/our future in mind...would make a good dad, that I could count on... that to me is a damn good man.... not a boy... and it doesn't matter how Alpha or Beta he is... mine is a bit passive in some ways.......but it's enough to hold every responsibility and treat his family like the true champion he is... so what is there not to love and respect..



> *Caribbean Man said*: Frankly speaking this is a woman's opinion and I have no problem with it. In fact , it supports what I've been saying all along on that other thread, and I'm glad the OP posted it. Some women actually prefer dating " boys."
> 
> ...*Here's the flip side about dating a girl vs a woman, which she posted, also found in that link:
> 
> The 11 Differences Between Dating A Woman And A Girl*.


 CB... you are amazing ! Always love what you contribute to this forum.... and this flip side as well.. 1st I've ever read that....
....I heartily agree with every point... whether this was written by a woman or a man makes no difference to me at all !!! ... I see it as pure wisdom...


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Not sure what you mean, hambone?


What I'm saying is... you see something that is attractive to you... That's the "brochure".


And once you've got the actual product in hands.. what seemed so attractive can sometimes be not so good when you actually have it 24 hrs.

I'll give you an example. This very attractive and wealthy woman asked me to go to a party with her. She ran in high social circles. It was the party season... Christmas, New Years and then Mardi Gras. I'm talking about the movers and shakers of the community...

I was very attracted to her.

I got really tired of all that really fast..


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Hmm....well, to me, just saying "I'm attracted to a person with these particular qualities" doesn't mean I will necessarily be with ANY person who meets those criteria forever. There still has to be a good fit between the two individuals.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> Hmm....well, to me, *just saying "I'm attracted to a person with these particular qualities" doesn't mean I will necessarily be with ANY person who meets those criteria forever. There still has to be a good fit between the two individuals*.


Well of course... we need to be physical attracted, enjoying each others company, laughing at each other's Jokes, One's quirkiness suddenly becomes endearing when you find Love... having similar goals, ideas on sex..... *Compatibility is a must* .....which touches so much more than these 10 snippets allows for...

But it's a GOOD starting point for separating those who'll continue to bring emotional grief & frustration over those who have their act together...and is offering something lasting in terms of a long term commitment / stability.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yeah...I was just responding to Hambone's post above mine.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> ....I heartily agree with every point... whether this was written by a woman or a man makes no difference to me at all !!! ... I see it as pure wisdom...


Ever since I was a little boy around 9 years old I heard the Desiderata for the first time in song and I loved it.
Every verse.
After i got married one verse played over and over in my mind:

"_..Take kindly to the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune._."

I'm glad I'm no longer dating and hope to God I'm not thrown into that scenario ever again!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I loved dating! I still love dating...my husband.

Before him though, I loved dating various guys.

When I met him and he was courting me, became the most fun period of my entire life! He agrees, and we talk about those times a lot.

That's why we still date each other...it was too much fun to stop!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

hambone said:


> What I'm saying is... you see something that is attractive to you... That's the "brochure".
> 
> 
> And once you've got the actual product in hands.. what seemed so attractive can sometimes be not so good when you actually have it 24 hrs.


I remember going through this a lot when I was single.
But I think it helped me shape exactly what I was looking for in a woman.
But to be honest, I also contributed to it because I _chose_ those type of women.
I was attracted to fast , flashy women. I never really gave much thought about looking deeper, or beyond the physical.
I was " _a boy_ " back then.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> I remember going through this a lot when I was single.
> But I think it helped me shape exactly what I was looking for in a woman.
> But to be honest, I also contributed to it because I _chose_ those type of women.
> I was attracted to fast , flashy women. I never really gave much thought about looking deeper, or beyond the physical.
> I was " _a boy_ " back then.


I was into that fast and flash before I got married that first time.

The second time.. I wasn't looking for a wife... when I fell in love.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*THE 11 DIFFERENCES BETWEEN DATING A BOY VS A MAN*

1. A man knows what he wants, and goes for it. A boy may have somewhat of an idea, but not really. He doesn’t think too much about it, and even if he does, doesn’t exert much effort to get it. A boy is passive, a man is assertive.

_"I had to jump through a lot of hoops to score those tickets. So no, I'm not going to your mother's on Sunday."_

2. A man plans for his future and is working towards building a foundation and infrastructure in order to have a family (at some point in his life). A boy lives only in the moment and his plans are mostly around which bar he’s going to hit up on the weekend.

_"Yes darling, I've worked very hard to build my career, and my future with a family, that's why I need you to sign this pre-nup."_

3. A man looks for a woman with intelligence, who is supportive, grounded and encompasses a shared set of values when choosing a partner. A boy cares mostly only for girls who are hot, wild and exciting.

_All the better if she's intelligent, wild, and exciting._

4. A man knows a good woman when he meets one and will take initiative to get to know her. A boy may make an attempt if you’re lucky, but gives up before ever really trying.

_A man will wait more than 3 dates before trying to bang her._

5. A man has the courage to have uncomfortable conversations. He is honest with his intentions and lets people know where they stand. A boy avoids. He ignores confrontation or any serious talks about feelings. Instead of dealing with a situation, he runs away from it or creates drama or excuses to mask the fact he’s not that into you or a relationship.

_"No honey, those pants don't make you look fat. Your ass makes you look fat."_

6. A man knows when to invest in a woman and jump in with two feet. A boy is always “testing” – he doesn’t fully commit because he never knows if he is quite ready. But the truth is, because he is a boy, regardless of who he meets, he will never be ready due to the stage of life he is in.

_Knowing what he wants; he also knows when to get the hell out, and it may not be long after he jumps in._

7. A man knows how to have a good time and be social, but is often busy making strides in his career and building his life. A boy is getting crunk with his buddies at the bar every weekend.

_Nope. No night out with the boys for you this weekend, I have a honey-do list for you as long as my arm._

8. A man takes the time to reflect on the type of man he wants to be, the example he wants to leave and the vision for his life. He has put thought into his values. A boy has not established his moral compass or values and consequently, is often inconsistent.

_I think the world of you and admire you, as long as you continue to make choices I agree with._

9. A man has integrity. He means what he says, and says what he means. He has follow through and actions his promises. And if he can’t he has the guts to tell you why. A boy makes promises but doesn’t follow through.

_"Yes I said I'd do it, and I will. On my schedule, not yours."_

10. A man is afraid of rejection but will put himself out there anyway. A boy is afraid of rejection and acts passive so that his pride and ego won’t ever get too banged up.
_"So ... I read 50 Shades, seeing as I've heard you go on and on about it. I decided to take a risk and give you what you want. I bought us a riding crop. You ready to giddyap?"_

Now, a lot of these differences require taking the time to know someone to figure out if the apple of your eye is indeed a man, or a mere boy. However, one of the quickest filters that you can notice from the beginning is this:

11. A boy plays games. A man doesn’t.

_Unless the boy and the qualities that you have outlined that you despise, is actually playing at being a man with the qualities you do desire. And if he's dreamy, forget about it. You'll figure it out though ... eventually._

*To clarify, when I’m referring to “games” I mean mind games.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

I find it funny that some men are disagreeing with this article, it was written by a woman. Boys are immature and insecure, they are attracted to girls who are immature and insecure. Really, how much more explanation does it need to be? Men who are sure of themselves are attracted to women who are sure of themselves, they don't fool around with the game playing (pretending to be unavailable, flirting around, etc.). I feel that some posters on this board are actually married to girls instead of women, hence the "alpha male" talk and confusion.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Deejo, I liked what you did there, even though some of the answers didn't quite ring "clean" to me. Still liked it.

I want to do one, too...it will take me a minute...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Was off the cuff and meant to be tongue in cheek.

Not going to get any arguments from me about what kind of man a woman should choose to partner with.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

techmom said:


> I find it funny that some men are disagreeing with this article, it was written by a woman. Boys are immature and insecure, they are attracted to girls who are immature and insecure. Really, how much more explanation does it need to be? Men who are sure of themselves are attracted to women who are sure of themselves, they don't fool around with the game playing (pretending to be unavailable, flirting around, etc.). I feel that some posters on this board are actually married to girls instead of women, hence the "alpha male" talk and confusion.


Says the lady with a drunken smiley face for an avatar


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

1. A man knows what he wants, and goes for it. A boy may have somewhat of an idea, but not really. He doesn’t think too much about it, and even if he does, doesn’t exert much effort to get it. A boy is passive, a man is assertive.

I'm not sure about this one because my man is assertive and so am I. We both definitely go for what we want, and that is each other. The "go for it" part is definitely sexy when a man applies that to "getting _you_". The feeling of a man assertively making you his lover or his wife is a rush.

2. A man plans for his future and is working towards building a foundation and infrastructure in order to have a family (at some point in his life). A boy lives only in the moment and his plans are mostly around which bar he’s going to hit up on the weekend.

"Yes, dear this weekend we can have a financial meeting, and after that we'll have special weekend sex, and then take a nice hot tub. Martini?"

3. A man looks for a woman with intelligence, who is supportive, grounded and encompasses a shared set of values when choosing a partner. A boy cares mostly only for girls who are hot, wild and exciting.

I liked Deejo's answer on this one.

4. A man knows a good woman when he meets one and will take initiative to get to know her. A boy may make an attempt if you’re lucky, but gives up before ever really trying.

Deejo's answer here, too.

5. A man has the courage to have uncomfortable conversations. He is honest with his intentions and lets people know where they stand. A boy avoids. He ignores confrontation or any serious talks about feelings. Instead of dealing with a situation, he runs away from it or creates drama or excuses to mask the fact he’s not that into you or a relationship.

"Ok honey, thank you for telling me that bad news about the car/stocks/kid/other bad news. That sucks and we will have to work on it. I am going to need some time to regroup and rethink things, so please give me a bit of space for that and I will come back ready to solve this dilemma".

(the key here being that he is self-aware enough to state his need for some space and time after dealing with an uncomfortable conversation)

6. A man knows when to invest in a woman and jump in with two feet. A boy is always “testing” – he doesn’t fully commit because he never knows if he is quite ready. But the truth is, because he is a boy, regardless of who he meets, he will never be ready due to the stage of life he is in.

"Put me in, coach...I'm your man".

7. A man knows how to have a good time and be social, but is often busy making strides in his career and building his life. A boy is getting crunk with his buddies at the bar every weekend.

"So honey, the usual this weekend? Pajama party in front of the fireplace?"

8. A man takes the time to reflect on the type of man he wants to be, the example he wants to leave and the vision for his life. He has put thought into his values. A boy has not established his moral compass or values and consequently, is often inconsistent.

"I trimmed one of the hedges into a T Rex, so everyone will remember me always!"

9. A man has integrity. He means what he says, and says what he means. He has follow through and actions his promises. And if he can’t he has the guts to tell you why. A boy makes promises but doesn’t follow through.

My husband loves me, and I know it. I can feel it, see it, smell it, touch it. His words are consistent with his actions, and he makes it clear to me that he wants my happiness.

10. A man is afraid of rejection but will put himself out there anyway. A boy is afraid of rejection and acts passive so that his pride and ego won’t ever get too banged up.

"Reject me if you will, but I'm coming at you like a wild horse either way".


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Didn't want an argument Deejo...I just liked your list thingy.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> Didn't want an argument Deejo...I just liked your list thingy.


*Sly grin*

I like my thingy too.


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## OrangeCrush1 (Oct 31, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I don't get this comment... ... I am hardly a feminist... probably the least likely candidate on this forum in female form...I am more old fashioned minded for sure...


Feminist? Where did I say feminist? I said _feminine_. 

And I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the skinny Asian woman who wrote that blog post. (Unless that's you. lol.)


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

OrangeCrush1 said:


> Feminist? Where did I say feminist? I said _feminine_.
> 
> And I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the skinny Asian woman who wrote that blog post. (Unless that's you. lol.)


I mistook the word (obviously -reading too fast)...and so what if it is little FEMININE...and she is a skinny Asian... us women like a little Beta in our men too...if you don't have any Beta... you are not *balanced* for any real relationship...

... I had one poster tell me (after I described the type of men I prefer to date ) - that it sounded like a woman with a penis...I would've liked to cyber slap him for that ! .... I like responsible men who show they are into 1 women...some sensitivity is good... not emotionally unavailable drinking philanderers who are Bar rats... this blog captures that sort of separation...so what is there not to like. Of course it is pretty dumb to even have to write an article like this, but since women still go after these Jokers to their own demise... seems some still need enlightened.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

I think that the list IS more about maturity and outlook than it is about age.

My mother always told me that I was "born middle aged" I was never into running with the "bad crowd" or "chasing skirt" my life has always been about "hard work" and "commitment".

Do not get me wrong I did "take risks" as a teenager (and in my 20's) but those risks were things that I consider "duty" (military service) or necessary to provide for my family / community (working overseas). I also did have (still have) a problem with my temper but as I have aged I have learned to keep it at bay / under tighter control.

For me the differences between how I was as a youngster (boy) and how I am now (man) are more about the level of risk I am prepared to accept. As a youngster with no dependants I would take any risk to do what I considered right but now I "make myself" consider the potential impact on my family of my actions. So no more military service or working overseas but I still do my bit as a volunteer with the local search and rescue, get evolved with community projects in the town / with the church / the kids schools.

I do not consider these changes make me any more or less "alpha" or less of a "man" it is more that I acknowledge my responsibilities have changed so my actions / attitude need to reflect that.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I find her opening paragraph veeeeeery interesting.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I think the article is interesting food for thought but definitely not the last word in identifying men vs, boys.

For example:


> 3. A man looks for a woman with intelligence, who is supportive, grounded and encompasses a shared set of values when choosing a partner. A boy cares mostly only for girls who are hot, wild and exciting.


In my experience, a man can look for that in one woman but not another. 

I think my fiance was enthralled by his EA's in your face behavior. But at the same time, wanted to spend more and more time with me. Maybe that underlines the 80/20 rule of inappropriate relationships.

I would also wager, he may have been more accepting of her "in your face behavior" given her age (29) at the time and was probably expecting more out of me (I was 50 at the time) anyway.

So, yes, I still had to intervene and make him choose either between me and any other option (including her) that he had at the time.

I also take issue with the last remark about "playing games." That phrase gets passed around so much and everyone needs to define it for themselves.

For example, since I don't like being hassled with last minute offers to go out, then I must be "playing games" when I turn down invitations because I was looking forward to a night in.

For me, playing games is about raising the bar much higher for someone than you would normally expect of others. Or that you raised the bar so high, then when you notice the other person turning away from you, you are finally ready to negotiate for the sake of keeping the relationship going. 

That guy I was dating in the middle naughties (2004 to 2006), he would tell me something along the lines that this what he would accept, then when I would say, maybe we aren't right for each other, that would make him ready to negotiate. My opinion of him would steadily get chipped away in this scenarios.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Ok I read the article quickly... but what she spoke about women in their younger years seems to be right on...far too many claw after emotionally unavailable men who ignore them, use them, hurt them..... and after so many years of this roller coaster... these women wise up... is this not true for many.. what was wrong with that ??


I think it is true. But several of her bullet points are not true. Girls, or women, young, or old, are not attracted to passive, unaccomplished, fearful men. The only point in claiming that girls are attracted to such men is to falsely instill a sense of wisdom and maturity in women who aren't attracted to those types of men. As if to argue that these women who are attracted to assertive, confident, accomplished, courageous men (basically ALL women) have developed these preferences through experience and introspection. That's obvious nonsense. Almost every female over the age of 14 is attracted to those traits in men.

Imagine if I wrote a blog post claiming that a love of chocolate is the result of decades of sampling every imaginable food from a wide variety of cultures. And it is only through this experience and trial and error that a wise and grizzled gastrophile can appreciate the taste of chocolate. Well, anybody who has seen a small child after Halloween can tell you that it's all BS. Most people are born with an appreciation for chocolate. Just as most women are born with an attraction for assertive, confident, accomplished, courageous men.



> I am not even sure where all this aggressive talk is even coming from...must have flew right over my head!


I think hambone is using it as the opposite of passivity.



> ... I guess we see all see what we want to see.... Most of the stuff she said is how I feel..*and have ALWAYS felt*...


We've already established that you're atypical. You're not as attracted to alpha traits as most women. And you're more attracted to beta traits than most women. It's no surprise that you never chased after men heavy on alpha and light on beta. Just as it's no surprise that many women do.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

*The 11 Differences Between Dating A Woman And A Girl.*

*1.* A girl throws tantrums. When displeased, upset or angry, she reacts just as she did as a child when she didn’t get her way with her parents. This often consists of screaming, pouting, giving the silent treatment, being passive aggressive and/or punishing. A woman still feels the emotions of being upset/displeased, but has cultivated the skill of responding versus reacting. She comes to the table as an adult, and communicates clearly what is bothering her.

_Indeed, revenge *is* a dish best served cold_

*2.* A girl perceives herself as a princess and believes people should treat her like so. She is entitled and feels that she is owed and therefore expects more than she appreciates. A woman, has standards (what she holds herself to) not expectations (what she projects on to others).

_Sorry, don't have time for sex, honey. I need to alphabetize the spice jars._

*3.* A girl uses her physical beauty as her currency and basis of value. A girl may be so used to feeling validated through her looks and sexuality, that she uses this as her primary tool to get what she wants in life. A woman, knows her worth is beyond her physicality. A woman bases her value on her intelligence, her strength, her integrity, her values, her contributions, her humanity.

_Winning the Nobel Prize was an amazing highlight, and my cats keep purring their admiration_

*4.* A girl banks on a man to be her financial strategy. A woman plans to be financially independent – she banks on… herself. And if she so happens to enter a relationship dynamic where it makes sense for her partner to be the primary breadwinner, it’s considered a bonus, not the expected life line.

_Yes, I know we don't get to see too much of each other, darling, but if I don't put in the 80 hours a week, that income will be gone!_

*5.* A girl sees the world from a place of lack and scarcity. She competes and will even tear down another in order to secure resources or a mate. A woman helps other women. She knows that there’s plenty enough to go around and takes the high road of integrity to get what she wants.


_Sorry, honey, can't have sex tonight. Lucy has just broken up with Joey and needs a good GNO at the club!_

*6.* A girl cannot be bothered with anything domestic and is proud of the fact that she cannot cook or clean. A woman understands that being domestic is not a duty, but understands that it is one way of taking care of herself and others. She also understands that in the event she wants to create a family, having a person in the household who can contribute domestically is important.

_I have back-to-back meetings today, so you'll have to make sure that Jenny gets to the dentist and the dog gets his bath_

*7.* “A girl wants attention, a woman wants respect. A girl wants to be adored by many. A woman wants to be adored by one.” -anonymous

_I dunno if this relationship can last. He's pretty good to me, but I haven't had a decent footbath in eons!_

*8.* A girl does not respect her body. She has not yet understood that her body and heart are sacred, and that it’s important to be mindful of how she treats it and who she shares it with. “A girl cherishes handbags, diamonds and her shoe collection as her prize possessions. A woman cherishes her health, her sense of self, and her talents as her greatest assets.” – N. Mah

_This burlap sack is giving me a rash!_

*9.* A woman takes the time to reflect on the type of human she wants to be, the example she wants to leave and the vision for her life. She has put thought into her values and what she stands for. A girl has not established her moral compass or values and consequently, is often inconsistent. *“After spending time with a girl, you feel exhausted because she takes more than she gives. After spending time with a woman, you feel invigorated, because she empowers you with possibility, and a passion for life.*” – N. Mah

_I've *always* wanted a life of leisure, complete with fireplace and indoor swimming pool! _

*10.* A girl has a checklist that prioritizes superficial qualities above anything else. Here is an example of how this checklist may look: Hot, popular, wears skinny jeans, over 6 feet tall, rich.. This is the checklist of what a woman may look for: High integrity, intelligent, kind, good communicator, emotionally available…

_He is just right for me, but for some strange reason, I haven't been able to orgasm in the past 10 years (unless I'm alone)_

*11.* A girl plays games. A woman doesn’t.

_But I love MasterMind. Does that mean I'll never grow up?_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> What am I missing, where did this skinny asian woman suggest that women are attracted to passive unaccomplished fearful men... this keeps being said but I didn't see this in the article....


You are, indeed, missing it. The entire blog post was about contrasting men (good) with boys (bad). Men are the opposite of boys. Men get raises. Boys get drunk. Men are courageous. Boys are fearful and avoid uncomfortable conversations. Men are active and assertive. Boys are passive. Those things are laid out explicitly in the blog.

The point of this, and it was stated explicitly in the blog, was that women like men, while girls like boys. She is using the terms men, women, boy, and girl, to refer to maturity and behavior. If you exhibit bad traits, you are a boy, or a girl. If you exhibit good traits, you are a man, or a woman.

That was the premise of the blog post. And it was a false premise. Girls aren't attracted to many of the traits she attributes to boys.



> Ok you find the article speaking to the choir... Ok... it's common sense.. it's reality... only an idiot would argue the points, is this what you mean?


My point is that being attracted to assertive, confident, accomplished, courageous men is not an accomplishment. It's a ubiquitous state of mind little different from enjoying candy. It would be foolish for someone to pat themselves on the back because they like the taste of sugar and claim that it's a sign of enlightenment. We're all programmed to like it.



> Then more articles should be written on WHY, what compels women who continue to chase unavailable men who treat them like dirt. Isn't this even a mystery to many men... I know I sure cant wrap my brain around it.


Sure. It's a mystery. And, frankly, I don't even know that it is a question that is possible to answer. I think a much more useful response is to simply acknowledge it and plan around it.

I think it was FaithfulWife who, in another thread, posted about recognizing that the dopamine and oxytocin release during and after sex can lead to emotions developing for one's sex partner. Because of that, she chose to avoid casual sex and only engage much more limited activities that would avoid those chemicals and those emotions being produced at problematic levels. Bravo. That's a useful course of action.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

According to my ex wife, the difference is purely physical. She said it was a matter of "inches".


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

These kinds of lists should all just be labeled "My Fantasy." They don't describe any human being I know. The real people I know have various qualities from these lists in varying degrees, and will display these qualities more or less at different times. And most people I know are also attracted at least in some degree to "boyish" or "girlish" qualities as well as "womanly" or "manly" qualities. Yes, some are more mature than others, more "manly" or "womanly" than others, but if you found a perfect 11/11 on either of these lists, I'd suggest you have probably met a robot or psychopath.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Copying & pasting the 11 points here.... Not sure they should call the other *a Boy* though... just not the Committed Responsible type that cares about a woman's emotions or well being ...


My wife is a boy!


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I guess I see it this way

The points listed above are how women want to like guys, and they are all good qualities. Cant agrue against them...which is the straw man idea. I cant think of too many women who would say, " i prefer dishonest, lazy boys, who drink all the time, over a hard working honest male."

However the "Alpha vs. Beta" discussion is what attracts women (and Im sure there is a similiar study for men) at a basic, raw, sublimital, how nature intended kinda way.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Garry2012 said:


> I guess I see it this way
> 
> The points listed above are how women want to like guys, and they are all good qualities. Cant agrue against them...which is the straw man idea. I cant think of too many women who would say, " i prefer dishonest, lazy boys, who drink all the time, over a hard working honest male."
> 
> *However the "Alpha vs. Beta" discussion is what attracts women (and Im sure there is a similiar study for men) at a basic, raw, sublimital, how nature intended kinda way.*


 Ok... the wheels are turning now...I am slowly "getting it".. sometimes it takes me awhile... 

Yes... breaking down the Alpha / Beta here >>



> The *Alpha Traits* are those associated with classic “manly man” strengths. Power, dominance, physical ability, bravery, wealth, cool and confidence. Oh and good genes. These are the things that attract women and turn them on sexually. The Alpha Traits are linked to the dopamine response in women.
> 
> *Alpha *= attraction building = Dopamine = In Love = Excitement





> The *Beta Traits* are those associated with the strengths of being a nice guy / “family man”. Kindness, being a good listener, the ability to help with the children, dependability, thoughtfulness, compassion and patience. These all create a sense of comfort and safety for the woman, and relax her because she feels that if she became pregnant, the Beta Trait male isn’t going to abandon her and the baby.
> 
> *Beta *= comfort building = Oxytocin / Vasopressin = Pair Bond = Calm Enjoyment"


*
**** So Alpha Traits create attraction and that “in love” feeling, and Beta Traits create the pair bond and makes her feel relaxed enough to have sex. You need a balance of both Alpha and Beta in a marriage to maximize her desire to have sex with you.



PHTlump said:


> *You are, indeed, missing it. The entire blog post was about contrasting men (good) with boys (bad). Men are the opposite of boys.* Men get raises. Boys get drunk. Men are courageous. Boys are fearful and avoid uncomfortable conversations. Men are active and assertive. Boys are passive. Those things are laid out explicitly in the blog.


 Yeah but this is not so cut & dried, there are plenty of men (who this writer calls "BOYS") who hang out in bars...aren't emotionally available, drive fancy cars and live a lifestyle women still salivate over.... (obviously) as they have no trouble bedding women.... I can think of one popular poster here who fits that to a T... and he'd want to punch anyone who called him a Boy... ...He'd say the BOYS are the ones who aren't getting Laid on a regular basis & beat his chest saying "I'm the man" ...irregardless of how he treats women, in the aftermath of a night of passion....

I'd say we all (men & women) have our own personal take on what we deem of higher value on the manhood list... I'd put GOOD Beta qualities above alluring Alpha qualities... 

I was out for a bit thinking about this.. I was never a "party girl" or wild....seems the majority of women & men go through this phase in their younger yrs....(which makes me odd again)...I've never felt I've missed anything in this regard...I don't like reckless people or high adventure ...living for the moment types...

I prefer honesty (no games), feet on the ground, deep conversation...I want to be best friends with my lover, sex would never come before friendship ....so yeah, I gravitate to the honorable types....I know what I need and what would cause me to pull my hair out in frustration. 



> *The point of this, and it was stated explicitly in the blog, was that women like men, while girls like boys. She is using the terms men, women, boy, and girl, to refer to maturity and behavior. If you exhibit bad traits, you are a boy, or a girl. If you exhibit good traits, you are a man, or a woman.*


 Well in my "good girl" opinion, I agree with that.. but many women may say they agree with this too... but their choices in men seem to prove otherwise....they seem to settle....or it's just that they are in those same circles/ that lifestyle..so they grab hold. 



> *My point is that being attracted to assertive, confident, accomplished, courageous men is not an accomplishment. It's a ubiquitous state of mind little different from enjoying candy. It would be foolish for someone to pat themselves on the back because they like the taste of sugar and claim that it's a sign of enlightenment. We're all programmed to like it*.


 Yes...very true. Similar to men being naturally attracted to a HOT 's who walk past...







....it can't be helped...they are wired this way too..



> *Sure. It's a mystery. And, frankly, I don't even know that it is a question that is possible to answer. I think a much more useful response is to simply acknowledge it and plan around it*.


 Yeah, books like MNMNG and Married Man's sex life... balancing the Alpha & Beta is a man's best bet and picking up PUA books (so many feel)... 



> T*hese kinds of lists should all just be labeled "My Fantasy." They don't describe any human being I know. The real people I know have various qualities from these lists in varying degrees, and will display these qualities more or less at different times. And most people I know are also attracted at least in some degree to "boyish" or "girlish" qualities as well as "womanly" or "manly" qualities. Yes, some are more mature than others, more "manly" or "womanly" than others, but if you found a perfect 11/11 on either of these lists, I'd suggest you have probably met a robot or psychopath*.


 There is nothing wrong with healthy inspirational striving to be the best we can be... If any of us wrote our own personal lists, it doesn't mean ours can fit every line..... My husband comes awfully close in my eyes ..... we talk openly about our faults & shortcomings ...just as we praise what we love & adore about each other... they are both fair game....we can laugh about our weaknesses & quirks just as readily too... we enjoy this!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> You need a balance of both Alpha and Beta in a marriage to maximize her desire to have sex with you.


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

I have seen a lot of this lists... "men oughta be courageous, assertive, protective" and so on...
and people think of a man rescuing a woman and a child from a burning house or something like this. Yes, this is courageous...
There so many men who love that lists and dream of accomplishing something like this... and then the act like such cowards in their daily lives... an example: people are discussing their opinions. A lot of men seem to be totally unable of voicing an unpopular opinion. They just act like weak-kneed wimps, like if they are going to pee their pants any minute. If people do not voice their opnion about a politics they consider wrong their children will suffer one day. 

Making all those lists will not help if one does not act on it.

By the way I did not read everything, just the middle of the discussion and I am very tired so what I wrote here might not make much sense.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I'll make tea said:


> * A lot of men seem to be totally unable of voicing an unpopular opinion. They just act like weak-kneed wimps, like if they are going to pee their pants any minute. If people do not voice their opnion about a politics they consider wrong their children will suffer one day. *


:iagree:

And sadly, it's something I see right here on TAM a lot and sometimes , in real life too.

But I guess that is another topic.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Difference Between Dating a Boy vs A Man*



Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And sadly, it's something I see right here on TAM a lot and sometimes , in real life too.
> 
> But I guess that is another topic.


Guilty as charged.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

I would say in the past....in my marriage..guilty. But my divorce and new life have changed me. I am much more outspoken now...I am much more to the point, and dont really care if you like me or not. I lost everything that i tried so hard to keep....so what do i have to lose now. I am not nearly that desparate, and see my life taking new form, with new hope etc. But that sense of "i dont give a f***" hasnt really left me.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Difference Between Dating a Boy vs A Man*



I'll make tea said:


> I have seen a lot of this lists... "men oughta be courageous, assertive, protective" and so on...
> and people think of a man rescuing a woman and a child from a burning house or something like this. Yes, this is courageous...
> There so many men who love that lists and dream of accomplishing something like this... and then the act like such cowards in their daily lives... an example: people are discussing their opinions. A lot of men seem to be totally unable of voicing an unpopular opinion. They just act like weak-kneed wimps, like if they are going to pee their pants any minute. If people do not voice their opnion about a politics they consider wrong their children will suffer one day.
> 
> ...


The fact is, even manly men aren't walking courageously around like superheroes. We all tend to muster courage when we need it, and some just find a need to be courageous more than others.

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with just living your life and not always being a rescuer, I just find it disheartening that todays culture has so many people, men especially, feeling that they constantly need to be doing something courageous and "important" to find their esteem and happiness.

It even feels a little like admitting defeat to just even write this, and I know I have been called spineless and weak-kneed for not escalating situations and asserting some kind of power, but in my heart I know I'm a lover and not a fighter, and I see value in remaining calm and patient. I have courage when I need it.


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

Lon said:


> The fact is, even manly men aren't walking courageously around like superheroes. We all tend to muster courage when we need it, and some just find a need to be courageous more than others.
> 
> I personally don't think there is anything wrong with just living your life and not always being a rescuer, I just find it disheartening that todays culture has so many people, men especially, feeling that they constantly need to be doing something courageous and "important" to find their esteem and happiness.
> 
> It even feels a little like admitting defeat to just even write this, and I know I have been called spineless and weak-kneed for not escalating situations and asserting some kind of power, but in my heart I know I'm a lover and not a fighter, and I see value in remaining calm and patient. I have courage when I need it.


You got me wrong. I do not expect men to walk around like assertive superheroes at all. The opposite is the case. I think it would be funny and ridiculuos if the typical man acted like a cowboy on some western on a typical day of his life. I never understood the idea of having to tussle with grizzlies in order to appear male which many men seem to have.

I value men who remain calm and patient and don't escalate situations.

What I do not like is when a man is a coward. I do not like it if a man does not stand up for what he believes in... because in the long run this will hurt the ones he loves. Politics is really the best example. The political decisions made today will have an impact on the world our children will live in.

I was born in a non-free country (altough I have no personal memory of that non-free time), which is free today. This of course has shaped my opinion. Nothing is wrong with just living your life... but the freedoms we do have today are nothing that just "happened" + they won't just "stay" if people couldn't care less.

That's why I don't like it when people don't voice their opinion. We do have the luxury of being allowed to voice one without having to be afraid of the knock at our door.

Having political courage + having intelectual courage imho is far more manly than grappling with wulfs... and I personally think it is funny that some men buy strategical flashlights and jackets that would help them survive a polar expedition... but pee their pants when it comes to standing to be counted for what they believe in.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

So, this female blogger found that her tastes have changed as she has matured.

When she was younger, (i.e. A girl) she was attracted to boys

Now that she's a little older, (i.e. A woman) she's attracted to men

Well duh.....


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Lon said:


> Guilty as charged.


I totally disagree with that Lon!

I always read your post because they are very indepth , logical and most of the time run against the grain of a thread.
I like how you simply state your point clearly, and move on.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Difference Between Dating a Boy vs A Man*



Caribbean Man said:


> I totally disagree with that Lon!
> 
> I always read your post because they are very indepth , logical and most of the time run against the grain of a thread.
> I like how you simply state your point clearly, and move on.


Well I rarely write anything that anyone could feel offended about, I often favor diplomacy over truer words. And what I mostly am "guilty" of is not usually communicating face to face in my daily life the way I do when I'm more assertive with my words on here.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Lon said:


> And what I mostly am "guilty" of is not usually communicating face to face in my daily life the way I do when I'm more assertive with my words on here.


Ok.

Got ya!

BTW, best wishes on your new relationship!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Difference Between Dating a Boy vs A Man*



Caribbean Man said:


> Ok.
> 
> Got ya!
> 
> BTW, best wishes on your new relationship!


Thanks! (it almost feels weird calling it "new" been seeing her for almost a year already)


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> So, this female blogger found that her tastes have changed as she has matured.
> 
> When she was younger, (i.e. A girl) she was attracted to boys
> 
> ...


Yeah, I don't any girls are interested in men, including older men...... although older men would like to think that they are.


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