# Long Haul backfired



## RoyR (Jan 28, 2014)

I was married 19 years, divorced in '05. 2 kids, house in 'burbs, 75k income, wife at home, etc...

First 5 years were good, last 14 were rotten. Sex died after 2nd kid, but I hear that's normal...Lucky we had a big house, I lived in the spare bonus room and used the kids bathroom. I'd say the worst and final argument was simply that she refused to return to work at her career after the kids were in school...I guess she changed her mind. We did discuss this prior to her becoming a stay at home mom 'cause she did teach for 3 years. I've also met quite a few guys that had the exact same experience, they basically said " If I wanted to stay married, I had to accept it.... Happy wife = happy life, etc..."



If I had to do it over again:

1. Be way more careful about how emotionally attached you get to the kids, and how much of an investment you want to make in being a father. It is an investment that you DO NOT legally have a right to....Period. As a man, you've always got to remember the woman has ultimate control of the kids, unless you are the stay-at-home Dad AND your wife has significant income...I hear that's pretty rare. 
So if you get really attached to the kids, reality is she can walk away from the relationship almost any time, and get majority custody of the kids. That means your visitation depends upon her mood. She can just say they are sick or whatever excuse, and you won't get to see them. It is all under her control, and post divorce women don't want to cooperate for anything. The legal system won't help you at all, unless you've got huge $$ to spend, and even then minimal help. Conversely, she can get CS easily, and the legal system will hammer you immediately for any reason, or no reason.

2. Income inequality > Be extremely careful about doing anything that raises my income compared to hers. ESPECIALLY when she is staying home with the kids. Probably a better plan to LOWER my income when she was staying home. Higher income almost always comes with more time away from home, but conversely that does not buy you goodwill from the mom, in fact just the opposite. Be absolutely rigid on the time limits where she stays home with the kids, try and limit that time as much as possible. Even if going back to work for her means you both pay child care, in the long run its gold for me 'cause every second she stays home is time built up that MUST be repaid upon divorce ( And lets face it, the longer you stay married, the more likely you will divorce...The curve STARTS at 50% and gets WORSE with time...)

3. Don't marry at all, marriage serves no purpose except to trap a guy into a one-sided contract. Living together is far, far more equal, and much easier to avoid alimony. If you marry, insist on a prenup. Use the prenup requirement to screen out dating partners. ANY woman who is against prenup is a gold digger by definition since a prenup isn't even legally valid unless it's created with equal representation.

4. Take a good hard look at her family. You could learn a lot about your future wife that way.

5. Be very aware of her taste in material things. How does it stack up against her actual earning power and career goals ?

6. Investigate her finances. Many, many women have significant student loan debt that earned them a useless degree that will not translate into a lucrative career. 

7. Try being passive about initiating sex, see what happens. Many, many women greatly desire a fiancé, engagement ring, wedding, reception party, and all those festivities. The fact that all that is so easy to get by just enjoying sex for a few years is a huge temptation.

I could go on, but you get the idea....


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You're clearly jaded and cynical, AND there's a lot of truth and good advice in what you wrote. The usual disclaimers apply - not every woman will screw you over, but often you won't know which type they are until you face these circumstances.


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

I am sorry that your marriage failed, but here is the description of the types of threads that are appropriate for the Long Term Success in Marriage section of TAM:

If you've been married 10+ years and consider your marriage a success, post your success story here. Help others by talking about what works for you.

Please ask 1 of the mods to move this to the Men's Clubhouse, or General Relationship section.

You don't want to get emotionally attached to your children? Don't become a father.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

RoyR said:


> If I had to do it over again:
> 
> 1. Be way more careful about how emotionally attached you get to the kids, and how much of an investment you want to make in being a father. It is an investment that you DO NOT legally have a right to....Period. As a man, you've always got to remember the woman has ultimate control of the kids, unless you are the stay-at-home Dad AND your wife has significant income...I hear that's pretty rare.
> 
> ...


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## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

RoyR,
Thanks for your insights...please take the criticisms of your perspective with a grain of salt...some people never get over their "LOVE" addiction fantasy. 

I did not have children with my exW so no comment there on #1...I agree with you on 2 - 7. I believe the biggest mistake I made in protecting my best interests in marriage was ignoring your item #4. In hindsight, my wife's family reeked on marital dysfunction.
My exW's marriage beliefs & behaviors came from her parents who were to marriage what Bonnie & Clyde were to law & order.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

I agree. The legal system is an absolute disgrace. A great quote I read in the book "The Prince of Tides":

"I would not feed their bone marrow to my dog." (referring to judges and lawyers in the divorce industrial complex)

Real bad people.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

RoyR said:


> Be way more careful about how emotionally attached you get to the kids, and how much of an investment you want to make in being a father.


I had no need to go any further. I pity you and feel sorry for your children.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Does that mean you kept your son just to get out of paying any more to your ex?

Classy.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

It's considerate to warn others about the consequences of the mistakes you've lived through, in a marriage. 

It's also important to acknowledge your happiness wasn't/isn't dependent on anyone else, other than yourself.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> It's considerate to warn others about the consequences of the mistakes you've lived through, in a marriage.
> 
> *It's also important to acknowledge your happiness wasn't/isn't dependent on anyone else, other than yourself*.


That's not true. The criminal family court system has the power to ruin men's lives. And they often do.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Wilderness, 

I never understand how you inevitably relate every man's situation, pre and post failed marriage, to the women they chose to marry and the family courts, that have to intercede because they can no longer play house. 

Have you tried IC yet. It could help you let go.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

I used to believe in the family courts giving men a fair shot until I had to deal with them. While the language is everything is quite gender neutral, in practice, it is anything but.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Wilderness,
> 
> I never understand how you inevitably relate every man's situation, pre and post failed marriage, to the women they chose to marry and the family courts, that have to intercede because they can no longer play house.
> 
> Have you tried IC yet. It could help you let go.


The family courts do not 'have to' intercede in the criminal manner in which they presently operate. To express it as such is just a subtle way of justifying and defending the indefensible atrocities of a criminal junta hellbent on harming innocent men and innocent children.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I never address the family courts. You did, in your usual vitriol. 

I addressed the proposition that the OP looks to himself for happiness, not others. You should too.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> I never address the family courts. You did, in your usual vitriol.
> 
> I addressed the proposition that the OP looks to himself for happiness, not others. You should too.


I don't think that is a very fair thing to say when you consider the utter destruction that the divorce industrial complex junta reeks against innocent men and children.

'Look to yourself' is a pretty empty platitude when the full force and power of the state is violently cutting you out of your chidren's lives and bankrupting you at the same time.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

RoyR said:


> I could go on, but you get the idea....


75K is enough to have a big house and a wife at home? dayum.... I need a house husband. 


If I had to do it over again:

1. Not in my state. a father has a legally right to visitation - sick or otherwise. Unless you aren't willing to assert your rights..... Custody is court mandated, not up to her whim. Unless you let her whims dictate.

2. The 'curve' is based on income. She lost years and years of merit raises, promotions and industry advances/changes.

3. I would DEMAND a prenup as my ex was the spendthrift and left me with nothing but bills at 35. Thank goodness I was able to finally dig out of that while he's still in the hole even without having to pay for where he lives (his mother).

4. My parents are still married and well off. I have neither thanks to marriage and I'm the WOMAN.

5. Didn't you benefit from her staying at home? No child care for years, didn't ever have to stay at home with a sick child or shuttle them to every after-school event? 

6. Ha - my ex had 40K in student loans when we met and I had 10K. His mother paid off his. When I left I had 5K plus penalties and interest. Now paid off By ME.

7. Yeah, my courthouse wedding and lack of engagement really dampened my desire. Or maybe it was the smacking me around. Not saying you do this but maybe your whining was emasculating and THAT dampened her desire because she wanted a MAN.

How about be a problem SOLVER instead of a whiner? I could have whined about the inequality of women in the workplace, how unfair it was I had the majority of child care while he was free to 'play'. I had to be the responsible one all of these years both when I was with him and not. I fought for what I got in court and in life and I enforced every promise made to me. Guys like you will call me a ball buster. Guys who are LIKE me will call me an equal, a go-getter. 

Men typically are problem solvers. So SOLVE IT. This attitude won't get you anywhere. Stop being a victim.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Wilderness, 

I see again you will just dismiss something other than what you have on your agenda. I'm truly sorry you're stuck in this constant loop of hate for those you perceive as your oppressors. I will not make the mistake again.



"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect" Edward Gibbon


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

*4. Take a good hard look at her family. You could learn a lot about your future wife that way.*

You mean take a look at HIS family since my in-laws are insane. My FIL is the poster child for Passive Aggressive behavior and my MIL is the patron saint of Martyrdom. I've never seen a more dysfunctional family in my life, thankfully we limit our contact with them otherwise I may have divorced my H just because of of what his parents did, they are that bad.
Literally every single time they visit, my H & I get in a fight.
My family?
My H loves them, they get along great & there has never been one issue. 
But thankfully I didn't judge my H by his family, it's not his fault they're nuts.


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## RoyR (Jan 28, 2014)

COGypsy said:


> Does that mean you kept your son just to get out of paying any more to your ex?
> 
> Classy.


I went for custody of BOTH, but after spending around $15-->$20k I kinda settled for what I could get...

He was definitely MUCH harder to raise, but I got him through HS and he is a functioning taxpaying non-drug using full time employed adult at this time. I have a pretty good relationship with BOTH my kids, but I still wouldn't do it over again. It just seems unfair to make such a huge investment, but have no rights to even visitation. And don't talk to me about the law, that doesn't mean ****...rights are what you can enforce. When a man is denied visitation, no one enforces that at all...

With the ex it was email only, and now that the kids are grown nothing at all.


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## RoyR (Jan 28, 2014)

I am solving it by breaking up engagements in process. I am solving it by spreading true information about the legal consequences of marriage contract. You will never see that on TV news or in a school curriculum. Women DELIBERATELY want to hide that information. Ever notice how women OVERWHELMINGLY oppose prenup ? Prenup makes the marriage contract EQUAL, prenup is EQUAL by definition, of course women hate that...

Guess how many men contact me on this forum ? Yep, so they can get the straight dope before signing on the dotted line.

You missed one thing about me maybe ? I'm surprised you didn't say I have a tiny penis. Miniscule in fact...


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

RoyR said:


> You missed one thing about me maybe ? I'm surprised you didn't say I have a tiny penis. Miniscule in fact...


Oh, I'm pretty sure that no one here is giving your penis the slightest consideration....


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## RoyR (Jan 28, 2014)

Your No. 1 is simply idiotic. You talk like the POLICE will come out and FORCE her to give visitation. That is BS. The courts do not enforce visitation, and to make anything happen you have to spend mucho dinero.


But of course she doesn't have to do anything to GET AND ENFORCE A FALSE RESTRAINING ORDER, EH ? And how about CS, these forums are rife with CS mistakes that never get fixed. How can you argue that Child Support is enforced in any way shape or form similar to visitation rights ??? Ridiculous...and shows how naïve you are.

Reality is, you don't understand the unfairness in the system, 'cause it doesn't apply to you...Exactly the same as slavery.


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## RoyR (Jan 28, 2014)

Inequality of women in the workplace is mostly BS. Women get paid for the work they do, problem is so many of them are crummy workers with poor attendance and stupid liberal arts degrees.

Of the 3 woman at my company, I get along best with one. She is loud and big/tall (5'11") but very competent at her job. She is paid fairly...However, the other two get paid the same as her, and THEY ARE GONE ALL THE TIME OUT SICK. 

All of them have science degrees, one of them is worthwhile. One of the other two is famous for coming in late, we never schedule a meeting with her before 10am.

Women who are competent and work hard get paid like a man does when they do the same work a man does. Most of them don't do the same work a man does, but expect higher pay anyway 'cause they are the " weaker sex "...Total BS.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

RoyR said:


> Your No. 1 is simply idiotic. You talk like the POLICE will come out and FORCE her to give visitation. That is BS. The courts do not enforce visitation, and to make anything happen you have to spend mucho dinero.
> 
> 
> But of course she doesn't have to do anything to GET AND ENFORCE A FALSE RESTRAINING ORDER, EH ? And how about CS, these forums are rife with CS mistakes that never get fixed. How can you argue that Child Support is enforced in any way shape or form similar to visitation rights ??? Ridiculous...and shows how naïve you are.
> ...


Glad to see Galt is back, but without the green text.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

RoyR said:


> Inequality of women in the workplace is mostly BS. Women get paid for the work they do, problem is so many of them are crummy workers with poor attendance and stupid liberal arts degrees.
> 
> Of the 3 woman at my company, I get along best with one. She is loud and big/tall (5'11") but very competent at her job. She is paid fairly...However, the other two get paid the same as her, and THEY ARE GONE ALL THE TIME OUT SICK.
> 
> ...




*I was going to make sport of this post. Then I though better of it. 
*


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## RoyR (Jan 28, 2014)

I think its fair to mention at this point the best of the 3 is bi leaning toward butch. She told me this in confidence. She said she likes guys, but they generally are not attracted to her....

I bought it 'cause she has a large square jaw, and louder voice than mine. Higher but louder.

Go ahead and make sport...You should see the reaction I get when I say this stuff in public ( Only when there are females around... )


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)




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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

RoyR said:


> I was married 19 years, divorced in '05. 2 kids, house in 'burbs, 75k income, wife at home, etc...
> 
> First 5 years were good, last 14 were rotten. Sex died after 2nd kid, but I hear that's normal...Lucky we had a big house, I lived in the spare bonus room and used the kids bathroom. I'd say the worst and final argument was simply that she refused to return to work at her career after the kids were in school...I guess she changed her mind. We did discuss this prior to her becoming a stay at home mom 'cause she did teach for 3 years. I've also met quite a few guys that had the exact same experience, they basically said " If I wanted to stay married, I had to accept it.... Happy wife = happy life, etc..."
> 
> ...


Too bad EVERYONE doesn't do this BEFORE they commit! But hey, at least you've learned, right? Just use it to make a terrific choice next time instead of letting it change who you are.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

RoyR said:


> Inequality of women in the workplace is mostly BS. Women get paid for the work they do, problem is so many of them are crummy workers with poor attendance and stupid liberal arts degrees.
> 
> Of the 3 woman at my company, I get along best with one. She is loud and big/tall (5'11") but very competent at her job. She is paid fairly...However, the other two get paid the same as her, and THEY ARE GONE ALL THE TIME OUT SICK.
> 
> ...


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol::lol: :lol: :lol:

Middle-aged female here. Speaking ONLY of my own experiences: 

1990: Graduated a vocational program for aerospace manufacturing quality control. Placement secretary calls me to inform me of a job interview and says, "Be careful. They said to send the best in the class, and you have the highest grades, but then they said they don't want a woman. I told them I'd be breaking the law if I complied with that request, so they kept it, but don't get your hopes up." 

I could see the interviewer was COMPLETELY uninterested, so I figured I had nothing to lose and said, "I understand you don't want to hire a woman." His excuse was BS, we both knew it, and so he hired me. 

He spent the rest of the time I worked there trying to get rid of me. As a temp initially, he figured at the end of my 3-mo contract, he'd be rid of me. He did NOT count on the night shift supervisor demanding that I be hired permanently. He tried to block the supervisor and called me aside one day to tell me that he was blocking it, "So that (supervisor) has the most amount of time to change his mind." 

He didn't change his mind. When I had a baby by planned C-section, I took a total of 3 weeks off work. When I returned, they made me an ASSISTANT to my prior position. At that same time, they held a male coworker's job for five weeks when he broke his hand. When I wrote a formal letter and sent it certified mail requesting reinstatement to my prior position, I was laid off two weeks later with ONE other male employee. 

Same location, an employee groped by crotch as I passed him in a hallway, another commented frequently about my "tits," and I was called from a building sixty yards away to another building where three men worked and told to make their coffee. 

1991: Another machine shop. Coworker asks me to help him move a large pallet - about 4 ft. x 8 ft. I agree, and as we are holding it vertically, he yanks backward hard on it - unexpectedly. He says, "That's why women don't belong in this job." 

1998: Between that machine shop and now, I'd worked for the U.S. Army as a drug and alcohol counselor, and also for a maximum security male prison (where I heard numerous remarks from people saying they'd "never" complain about working with women again now that they'd worked with me. Then again, I had a supervisor who continuously called me and the other female officer "little girls" in front of the inmates.) While attending university, I took a job for a security company. My immediate supervisor offered me a better paying position as the lead supervisor for the company's new contract - providing security in an alcohol rehab facility. He even wrote out my new schedule and gave it to me. Right afterward, HIS boss poked his head in the door and said nope, the client wanted a male in that position. I reminded him that such a request was illegal and so was complying with it. He asked me to give him 60 days so that he wouldn't make the client mad, and assured me that he'd get me into that position. On day 61, I was at his office (by appointment!) and he kept me waiting for two hours. When he finally bothered to see me, he said only, "The client is happy with the staff they have." 

I filed a formal complaint with the EEOC. The following week, I was written up for "discussing company business with a client." When I asked what I had said and to whom, my supervisor told me he did not know, and was just following an order from HIS supervisor. I asked him to write a note on the writeup that said I'd asked that question and that he didn't have the answer if he wanted me to sign the writeup. He made the note. I won my case. 

That was my LAST job working for corporate America. I'm sure there has been some improvement, but I continue to see and hear about discrimination against women in the workplace in my own daughter's lives.

Reality check, RoyR: Some women are like you've described. However, those who are good workers are still viewed as weak or inferior. They must work TWICE has hard to get HALF as much credit. Here's something you can check out about how people's perceptions work when it comes to men and women in the workplace: 

http://advance.cornell.edu/documents/ImpactofGender.pdf
http://mlabild.webs.com/Gender Biases and Evaluations (Abild & O'Reilly) SIOP 12-04-25.pdf (This study has quite recent data.)


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> That was my LAST job working for corporate America. I'm sure there has been some improvement, but I continue to see and hear about discrimination against women in the workplace in my own daughter's lives.


Wow. I'll be sodomized on Christmas.

That doesn't happen to my knowledge in my chosen career path in hi-tech. I work with more women now in than ever before. One just retired as a principal engineer. Another is considered an absolutely invaluable asset to the testing department - I was warned once by management when I made a blond joke that I had better watch my step. Our sexual harassment training is thorough and repeated annually. 

So not all of corporate America is the same.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

LOL Cletus... It happens even in non-physical fields. The differences really is all about whether companies tolerate it or not. Glad to hear you work for one that's cautious. I think sometimes women are over-sensitive, BUT the earnings and performance feedback, etc. suffer simply because we are women. 

Real example: At the prison, I was ordered not to go down the walks to check inmate cells, that a male officer would do it. Only a week or two later, an important gate at the end of the walk had been left unlocked and the male officer did NOT check. It was a blind area where inmates could have done ANYTHING without getting caught!

So, even though I was following orders, guess what happened? I was called in for a write-up for not doing my job. Of course, if I HAD done my job, I'd have been written up for disobeying my supervisor. All of which contributes to a perception of whether I'm a "good worker" or not.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

My ex husband got away easy. He never paid child support and he went 6yrs without seeing his kids. I never even tried to fight for child support, he had no job, he still has no job. Then again, our kids are now 21 and 25. I remember I would take the girls to try and find him so they could see their dad, his mother would lie to me and tell me he wasn't there. Funny thing, his best friend called me and said that he was at his mom's and he was hiding from me. P!sses me off to this day.

The reason I divorced his a$$? I was going to college 5 days a week 8hrs a day and working 2 part-time jobs on the weekends. I still had to take care of the house, shopping, cooking, laundry, etc while he sat on his a$$ all day. Oh yeah, sex was non existent as well. I was only 24 at the time. I was not tolerating that. 

Yeah, he got a raw deal that's for sure........


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

COGypsy said:


> Does that mean you kept your son just to get out of paying any more to your ex?
> 
> Classy.


No, you can keep your son because you prefer to raise him yourself and also you won't need to send money over, you can use it on him yourself...


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

pidge70 said:


> My ex husband got away easy. He never paid child support and he went 6yrs without seeing his kids. I never even tried to fight for child support, he had no job, he still has no job. Then again, our kids are now 21 and 25. I remember I would take the girls to try and find him so they could see their dad, his mother would lie to me and tell me he wasn't there. Funny thing, his best friend called me and said that he was at his mom's and he was hiding from me. P!sses me off to this day.
> 
> The reason I divorced his a$$? I was going to college 5 days a week 8hrs a day and working 2 part-time jobs on the weekends. I still had to take care of the house, shopping, cooking, laundry, etc while he sat on his a$$ all day. Oh yeah, sex was non existent as well. I was only 24 at the time. I was not tolerating that.
> 
> Yeah, he got a raw deal that's for sure........


There's alot of men who will carry their weight and appreciate a woman just like you. Focus on the positive and appreciate the negative.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> LOL Cletus... It happens even in non-physical fields. The differences really is all about whether companies tolerate it or not. Glad to hear you work for one that's cautious. I think sometimes women are over-sensitive, BUT the earnings and performance feedback, etc. suffer simply because we are women.


It's actually not about one company being cautious. It's about the field in general and how sexism just isn't part of the culture. I've worked for a half dozen companies over 25 years and it's always been the same way.

Which explains a little bit of MY confusion over what the deal is with this gender inequality thing that I've never seen in my real life.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cletus and I live in the same area.

I don't encounter sexism in my jobs, and have worked at many different companies in this state in the past 2 decades, two of which were owned and operated by women.

Also in our state if you owe someone child support it is taken directly out of your check. Women, too. So as far as supporting those payments, the State takes care of that for you. Also when you are hired anywhere in our state, we have to report it to CS in case they (or IRS or others) are looking for you for garnishments or support. So you literally can't get a legit job without paying your obligations...MALE or FEMALE. I work in HR and PR and see plenty of women being garnished for CS.

No one even fusses about it here, you owe it, you pay it, the state makes it easy. Also you can review it every 2 years or with any significant change in income for either party.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

RoyR said:


> I went for custody of BOTH, but after spending around $15-->$20k I kinda settled for what I could get...
> 
> He was definitely MUCH harder to raise, but* I got him through HS and he is a functioning taxpaying non-drug using full time employed adult at this time.* I have a pretty good relationship with BOTH my kids, but I still wouldn't do it over again. It just seems unfair to make such a huge investment, but have *no rights to even visitation.* And don't talk to me about the law, that doesn't mean ****...rights are what you can enforce. When a man is denied visitation, no one enforces that at all...
> 
> With the ex it was email only, and now that the kids are grown nothing at all.


I'm curious. How is it that you are taking credit for getting him through HS when you had no visitation??


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

RoyR said:


> But of course* she doesn't have to do anything* to GET AND ENFORCE A FALSE RESTRAINING ORDER, EH ?


LOL! She can just show them your rants here. :soapbox:

Are any of your children female? You are scary. I'm glad I am not a woman working where you work!


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

RoyR said:


> I think its fair to mention at this point the best of the 3 is bi leaning toward butch. She told me this in confidence. She said she likes guys, but they generally are not attracted to her....
> 
> I bought it 'cause she has a large square jaw, and louder voice than mine. Higher but louder.
> 
> Go ahead and make sport...You should see the reaction I get when I say this stuff in public ( Only when there are females around... )


Ooh yeah she is superior because she is masculine :smthumbup:

But why stop there? :scratchhead:

Roy, I think you need to reconsider your sexual orientation. Find another man just like you to marry. Then everything can be *totally* equal. 

And just think, never again do you have to tolerate an evil wife giving you the shaft


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

RoyR said:


> I think its fair to mention at this point the best of the 3 is bi leaning toward butch. She told me this in confidence. She said she likes guys, but they generally are not attracted to her....
> 
> I bought it 'cause she has a large square jaw, and louder voice than mine. Higher but louder.
> 
> Go ahead and make sport...You should see the reaction I get when I say this stuff in public ( Only when there are females around... )


You aren't going to stop at just insulting woman and the divorce fascist complex, are you? I mean, there are whole groups that you can lump into the lazy, whining, victim group-think police. 

You are going to really stir this up, right?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Cletus and Faithful, glad to hear it.


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## RoyR (Jan 28, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Wow. I'll be sodomized on Christmas.
> 
> That doesn't happen to my knowledge in my chosen career path in hi-tech. I work with more women now in than ever before. One just retired as a principal engineer. Another is considered an absolutely invaluable asset to the testing department - I was warned once by management when I made a blond joke that I had better watch my step. Our sexual harassment training is thorough and repeated annually.
> 
> So not all of corporate America is the same.


Same here at all the larger companies I've worked for...And there are some competent women. There are also a large number of women who are boning the upper management and getting favorable treatment. Then there are the women who go from company to company and stay just long enough to bone some VP, then cash in on the sexual harassment lawsuit. I guess my real issue is, WOMEN DO NOT CONDEMN the behavior of women who use men sexually for gain in the workplace. So my sympathy for women is limited based on that attitude.

Simple example, Polls show women OVERWHELMINGLY FAVORED Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky, but disliked and denigrated Linda Tripp. WTF ??


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## RoyR (Jan 28, 2014)

Blonde said:


> I'm curious. How is it that you are taking credit for getting him through HS when you had no visitation??


I'm saying men in general don't have a right to visitation. Its in the law alright, but can't be enforced and is not enforced. I had custody of my son and I had visitation with my daughter against my ex's wishes sometimes. Sometimes with her consent, never without hassle.


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## RoyR (Jan 28, 2014)

Blonde said:


> Ooh yeah she is superior because she is masculine :smthumbup:
> 
> But why stop there? :scratchhead:
> 
> ...


I tried, I'm just not attracted to men that way...I kinda agree with you, it would make things easier sometimes. For example, I'm fairly sure if I woke up next to my male partner and I'm feeling frisky, bet it wouldn't be much work to persuade him to have sex...
Women are so much work sometimes...Plus I was raised that you're not supposed to have intercourse until after she's climaxed.

However, I have heard plenty of grousing from wealthy homosexual men who were cleaned out by young hot men, so I think its the legal system that is screwed up...Its not women's fault it favors them so much, its just that they go along with what nature already provides.


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## RoyR (Jan 28, 2014)

KathyBatesel said:


> LOL Cletus... It happens even in non-physical fields. The differences really is all about whether companies tolerate it or not. Glad to hear you work for one that's cautious. I think sometimes women are over-sensitive, BUT the earnings and performance feedback, etc. suffer simply because we are women.
> 
> Real example: At the prison, I was ordered not to go down the walks to check inmate cells, that a male officer would do it. Only a week or two later, an important gate at the end of the walk had been left unlocked and the male officer did NOT check. It was a blind area where inmates could have done ANYTHING without getting caught!
> 
> So, even though I was following orders, guess what happened? I was called in for a write-up for not doing my job. Of course, if I HAD done my job, I'd have been written up for disobeying my supervisor. All of which contributes to a perception of whether I'm a "good worker" or not.


Kathy, 
I wonder if this is more of a Midwest / south phenomenon...I grew up in CA, moved to OR, and WA. Haven't seen that kind of crap. If that happened where I've worked, there would be lawsuits.


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