# I've read and read, still need help.



## legalgirl91 (Apr 11, 2012)

Hi, all. I'm new to the forum, but I've read the rules and I'm also a terrific researcher (it's my job!). I have read similar forums to this, but none pertain specifically to my situation, so I'd like some help.

I'm 25. I'm establishing my career after obtaining my Masters. I have been through 2 long-term relationships, both of which ended badly. I am long-term oriented, and although I have had a few years where I was single, I prefer to be in a relationship. I have always sought to be married and have children.

I have been with my boyfriend for a year and some months. We progressed quickly, as far as becoming best friends and falling truly in love. We have a great relationship - I know everyone says that, but we do. There are no major issues regarding trust or anything like that. We enjoy the same things, we both are intelligent and hard working, and we both have the same life goals and philosophies. We are both very mature for our ages (he is 26, a year older than me) and have similar social groups we tend to flock to.

Lately we are at a stand-still. I want to get married and have children and I want to do it before I am 30. This has always been the case, but lately it has been a pressing issue to me, personally. My boyfriend says he isn't ready. He reassures me constantly that he wants to marry me and only me and wouldn't change our relationship for the world, but that he is not ready.

I should also throw in here that we live 40 minutes apart. This has never been something that I wanted to do, but I was so enamored by him and the relationship progressed so smoothly and amazingly, that it didn't bother me at first. Now, with our schedules and busy lives, it has become a tedious task to plan out when we will see each other, who will stay over at whose house, etc. In an attempt not to nag him about proposing, I offered the living together alternative. I have been interviewing for positions up near where he lives and have offered to move. He has shot down my offer to live together, arguing that his mother (dying of ovarian cancer) is strongly against it and he refuses to upset her. He has spoken with his father (his parents are married) recently and his father strongly advised him not to because of his mother's condition. His mother is extremely conservative and Catholic and will not reason on this topic whatsoever. She will only preach.

I have tried to talk to him about other alternatives to solve our situation. All this does is cause us to fight because he thinks I am nagging him. Most recently, I wrote him an email telling him that I wished not to continue our relationship if it must continue as it is. I want progression and he won't give it to me. He responded with a phone call asking me to move up by him. I told him that we've had this conversation before, and it me moving by him would only change in the following ways - 1) I won't have any of my friends or family around and 2) I'd be paying more in rent. ... We would still be living apart and still be struggling to see each other. Moreover, we would STILL be blowing money paying separate rent payments. He offered to help me pay my higher rent. First of all, I don't need a man to help me make my rent payments. Second of all, this isn't going to help him save any money.

I understand our fights are pushing us further from anything, but I don't know what to do. He won't agree to a long engagement, he won't agree to an engagement at all, he won't agree to live with me....he shuts down all possible solutions to our problem. The problem being that I am not happy because it is stressful and depressing for me to be apart from him all of the time. Not only is it stressful and depressing, but there is nothing for me to look forward to. He tells me he isn't ready, that he doesn't know when he will be ready, that he can't live with me, that things are going to have to stay the same, etc. What incentive do I have to stay? Most would say a loving relationship...but a loving relationship that is going where? He "promises" it won't take "years" or "a really long time"...but how can someone who isn't ready say that?

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I am driving myself insane and him, too. But I can't stop. I've tried. I tried telling myself, "Go 3 months without bringing it up at all." But every time I try, I get more and more mad and frustrated because of our situation.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I see a few red flags here.




legalgirl91 said:


> I should also throw in here that we live 40 minutes apart.


This needs to be fixed before any proposal comes about.



> He has shot down my offer to live together, arguing that his mother (dying of ovarian cancer) is strongly against it and he refuses to upset her. He has spoken with his father (his parents are married) recently and his father strongly advised him not to because of his mother's condition. His mother is extremely conservative and Catholic and will not reason on this topic whatsoever. She will only preach.


His mother is irrelevant and if you don`t believe me you`re not ready for marriage.
He holds his parents needs above yours and this is a SERIOUS red flag.
Enough for me at the age of 45 to immediately end any LTR where this raises it`s ugly head.



> I understand our fights are pushing us further from anything, but I don't know what to do. He won't agree to a long engagement, he won't agree to an engagement at all, he won't agree to live with me....he shuts down all possible solutions to our problem.


What can you do then?
You either live your life catering to every need he (& his parents) have at the expense of your own needs and become nothing more than his emotional crutch..or...

You dump him, tell him exactly why and refuse to reconsider until he has met some of your boundaries.

He`s manipulating you, unwittingly perhaps but manipulating you nonetheless.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

A few things...

First, you've been in two long-term relationships before you were 25. if you've been with your BF at least a year, it's two long term relationships before you were 24. You seem to latch on quick and hard.

Second, both ended badly. may we ask why? Maybe because...

Third, you "have always sought to be married and have children".

Fourth, "he shuts down all possible solutions to our problem". No, he offered a solution and you shut it down. 

Fifth, he tells you he isn't ready and that isn't acceptable to you.

If you need a commitment right now, he isn't the guy. But based on your track record (and not knowing why your previous relationships didn't work out so I mat be way off base) I think that you need to compromise a bit more.


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## JJG (Mar 9, 2011)

First step, stop nagging, it will do nothing but damage.

Second step, let him know that you are happy to continue a relationship with him but it will no longer be exclusive as he is showing no isgns of moving forward (obviously dont say this unless you are serious about doing it).

This will either free you up to find Mr Right or show him that you will not hang around and he will have to make a decision.


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## tokn (Sep 9, 2011)

I think you need to lighten up some, his mother is dying of cancer and he wants to maintain a good relationship with her before she passes. If he decides to go against her wish, I don't think the last thing he wants to remember is being on bad terms with his mom for your sake of happiness. He may even resent you later down the road for it.

I would give him at least until that before you rush into anything.

You're 26, there's still a long life ahead of you, relax a little bit, what is another year (if that) to put off for his dying mom?


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## growtogether (Feb 27, 2012)

Hello, 
I was just curious here, what is the hurry to get married and have kids? Why is the number 30 is your number to have kids?
You know, One year and couple month it's not a lot. Before getting married it's important to live with the person before....So why is there a hurry?
An other thing that I'm curious about is do you know exactly why your boyfriend is not ready? Do you know the deep reasons? His feelings?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

legalgirl91 said:


> I am long-term oriented, and although I have had a few years where I was single, I prefer to be in a relationship.


In a nutshell you are fabulous in the working world and don't understand why those same tactics won't work on a man. You are used to going after whatever you want and getting it but these men aren't buying it.

What you need desperately is some schooling on relationships specifically men. The more you chase the more they run. That's rule #1. Rule #2 is don't make getting married a goal like getting that promotion or degree. It doesn't work that way. If you goal set you will miss out on the beauty of falling in love and having all that happen the way it's supposed to not on some timetable.

Have you considered seeking counseling to learn some new ways of relating to people without making it be all about what you want?


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## legalgirl91 (Apr 11, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> In a nutshell you are fabulous in the working world and don't understand why those same tactics won't work on a man. You are used to going after whatever you want and getting it but these men aren't buying it.
> 
> What you need desperately is some schooling on relationships specifically men. The more you chase the more they run. That's rule #1. Rule #2 is don't make getting married a goal like getting that promotion or degree. It doesn't work that way. If you goal set you will miss out on the beauty of falling in love and having all that happen the way it's supposed to not on some timetable.
> 
> Have you considered seeking counseling to learn some new ways of relating to people without making it be all about what you want?



This is well said. You cannot push a man to marry you and expect a good marriage. He will always regret it.


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## legalgirl91 (Apr 11, 2012)

Thank you all for your advice!
@tacoma: I am trying to decrease the distance between us without screwing myself over.
He won't move in with me and I don't see the point in moving by him when we will continue 
to live apart. It's the same as now. / His mother IS relevant because she is his mother and she 
is dying, and while I am inclined to agree with you slightly, I cannot completely
because I also think that if he respects his mother that much he will equally respect me as his 
wife.
@ChrisTaylor: My first relationship ended because we dated from 14-19 and couldn't agree on 
where to live and how to make it work with me at college and him living at home working rather than 
going to school. It ended nicely but the aftermath involved me wanting him back and him refusing 
because he resented me for still being away a school. My 2nd ended maturely as well, but during us working 
on getting back together I discovered he was screwing my best friend (who happened to be
his best friend's fiancé). / The reason I am shooting down his alternative proposal is I see it as buying 
him more time and procrastinating further. If I'm closer to him but not living with him, we will se each 
other more but still be paying separate rents and he won't feel pressured like he would engaged or living 
with me. Another cop out for him.
@token: Don't you think that, if anything, he should want to marry before his mother dies so she can be there,
rather than waiting til after she dies? And also, I forgot to add, that she recently spoke to him saying she really 
likes me and feels he is being sinful if he continues to date me and not propose.
Translation: 1) she wants a wedding and grandchildren 2) she hates that we are sleeping together before marriage.
@growtogether: it doesn't matter why I want to be married, the point is that I do, I'm not going to change my mind,
and I've been up front about it from the first time we had a talk about it. He has been well aware of my time line and 
whether he agrees with it or not, he has known about it. But if you must know why, it is because it is my 
personal preference not to have children past the age of 30 and I want to do it traditionally by getting married 
and buying a home and having a good job. I do not want to have children in my 30s and I won't. I want to be a 
"younger" mom. And actually, 30 is pushing it because I am extremely bitter about not doing it by 26, my original
goal. / you say it's important to live together first. I know!!! But he won't!!! / his reasonings for not being ready include
him not saving money well enough and us fighting lately. 
@mavash: thanks for the harsh criticism. I need it for sure! He won't do counseling because he believes it is for marriage 
and the church.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I think you should force him to do something he doesn't want to do. That way, when you're married, you will life happily ever after forever.

Is that how you play it out in your head


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## legalgirl91 (Apr 11, 2012)

COguy said:


> I think you should force him to do something he doesn't want to do. That way, when you're married, you will life happily ever after forever.
> 
> Is that how you play it out in your head


No. I should just sit back and allow him to refuse to commit to anything besides dating 40 minutes apart. Is that how you play it out in your head?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tokn (Sep 9, 2011)

legalgirl91 said:


> @token: Don't you think that, if anything, he should want to marry before his mother dies so she can be there,
> rather than waiting til after she dies? And also, I forgot to add, that she recently spoke to him saying she really
> likes me and feels he is being sinful if he continues to date me and not propose.
> Translation: 1) she wants a wedding and grandchildren 2) she hates that we are sleeping together before marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well since I'm not him, so I can't speak for him. But I would want that, if *I* was ready. But if I wasn't ready, you could put the moon a plate for me and it wouldn't change my mind, maybe he's the same way.

Sit down and have a heart to heart with each and find out what his reservations are?

Maybe he feels he will lose his independence, trapped, or things are moving too fast? Who knows...

I would give it some time, a few months after the mom passes, talk to him again about moving in together and see where it goes.

If he's still not ready to move in together by then, I guess you have a choice to make...


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

legalgirl91 said:


> No. I should just sit back and allow him to refuse to commit to anything besides dating 40 minutes apart. Is that how you play it out in your head?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, in my head it's pretty obvious he doesn't WANT to get married to you, so forcing him to do that would not be a good idea. You are of the mindset which thinks marriage is an end of itself, if you could only get married, XYZ would happen.

If you don't want to date him 40 minutes away, and you don't want to move close to him while he pays your extra rent, and you don't want to wait till he's ready, then leave.

Sounds like he's just not that into you, and I don't know why anyone would ever want to marry someone who isn't ready.

Let me lay it out for you, two people who love the piss out of each other and do everything right and commit 100% to each other, will have a really really tough time staying married.

A marriage where one person isn't ready and the other is deadset on tying the knot, that marriage has a pretty sh*tty chance of lasting.

If you want my honest opinion, I think you're compensating for something. Either you're not happy, or you have a fear of something, and you're using marriage as an excuse to solve that issue. It won't...... Marriage doesn't solve problems, it makes them worse.


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## kittykat09 (Mar 26, 2012)

It sounds like you are not being very empathetic to whatever emotional distress he is going through with his mother. She is dying- why *wouldn't* he want to do what he could to make her happy before she passes? How is moving in with his girlfriend supposed to take precedence over that? I get that you don't like long-distance, but it isn't all about you.

Relationships are a two-way street. He doesn't want to get married right now, you do. He doesn't want kids anytime soon, you do. 

The things you posted make it sound like you just want a Husband as if it was a degree to collect. There is no actual reason to get married and have kids by 30- if anything it makes you sound desperate and that is a huge turn off for guys. To them it sounds like you don't care *who* you marry, you just want to get married. 

FFS if you are hell-bent on getting married right now and having kids soon and he isn't ready, move on. Don't try to nag or guilt him into it, you've only been together a year and he is dealing with family troubles. It really isn't something a loving partner would do. Sorry, but it isn't. 

If him not being ready is a deal-breaker then be honest with everyone and leave. I warn you though, not many people find the prospect of "and in 2 years we will X and 2 years after we will Y and 10 years from now you need to be making Z money" very exciting. It reeks of being anal-retentive and being unable to adapt or grow.

ETA: Also, 100% in agreement with COguy's post.


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## kittykat09 (Mar 26, 2012)

I want to add in a story for you. I have a friend who is an amazing gal, she really is. 

I think we were probably 20? give or take at the time. She was in school to become an architect. She asked me what my plans for the future were. No clue on my end, it isn't really something I normally think about. I think things change too much to really bother making timelines for myself. I mean, I wanted to get married, have a career, and be happy but that is vague.

Her? She was going to graduate by 2008 then she was going to do 2 years in the Peace Corps. While in PC she was going to meet a guy (I think he also had to be an architect) and get engaged. When she got out she was going to work doing architecture where lived, get married. When her husband hit a certain pay-grade she was going to have three kids and be a stay-at-home mom for the first 10 years or whatever of their lives while doing volunteer-work with groups like Habitat for Humanity. Then she was going to return to work and work X years until she retired.

I don't remember half the stuff she planned out. It was ridiculous. Every little detail for the next 40+ years of her life planned to a T. Guess who is still single? Yeah. In her case, she really is a very warm person despite how rigid that sounds but... 

That is extremely intimidating for a guy, not to mention rigid and unable to account for the fact that life doesn't go as planned. It doesn't sound fun, it makes guys feel like they are an accessory, and it makes the person look like there is zero room for anyone to grow in the relationship. It might affect the schedule if someone were to actually be human or something.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Uh, what do "FFS" and "ETA" stand for?

...thanks!


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## kittykat09 (Mar 26, 2012)

FFS- for f's sake
ETA- edited to add 
(in airports it is estimated time of arrival XD)


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

legalgirl91 said:


> His mother is extremely conservative and Catholic and will not reason on this topic whatsoever.


This woman is principled and convicted. There is no reasoning when it comes to being asked to abandon one's fundamental values and beliefs. It is not you and your wishes that determine or dictate her values.



legalgirl91 said:


> I have tried to talk to him about other alternatives to solve our situation. All this does is cause us to fight because he thinks I am nagging him.


You ARE nagging him. Learn to respect other people's wishes even though they differ from your own. 



legalgirl91 said:


> Most recently, I wrote him an email telling him that I wished not to continue our relationship if it must continue as it is. I want progression and he won't give it to me.


Boy was that the biggest mind game of all in the ultimate desperate attempt to get your way. 



legalgirl91 said:


> He won't agree to a long engagement, he won't agree to an engagement at all


It's my bet he preferred the idea of engagement and marriage be his own invention and not something he'd be forced to agree on.



legalgirl91 said:


> I am driving myself insane and him, too.


Yes, and driving me nuts, too LOL. My goodness, you are extremely pushy. So pushy that I wouldn't want to know you. If you think about it, you are so trying to force him to marrying you, or live with you, or whatever else you want that he doesn't want, that all you have accomplished is to push him away. 

I think it would be better for you to begin counseling to learn yourself and to learn how to live in this world with other people because pushing and forcing others to do what you want the way you want and precisely when you want is not the way to live unless your residence is an island. Your guy and every other human you meet in this life have the right to their own thoughts, their own needs and desires, their own wishes, and their own decisions as to how to live their lives......in their own time. You also need to learn respect, appreciation, and a few principles won't hurt either. If you don't learn these things, you will keep looking to others for validation and will keep receiving advice like this..............



tacoma said:


> He holds his parents needs above yours and this is a SERIOUS red flag.


There are no red flags here, not on his part. He has clearly stated that he does not want to live with you, does not want to marry you, does not want to be engaged to you. It is also not a red flag that he does not want to go against his parents' wishes. They raised him to be a principled man, not unlike themselves. They did as they were supposed to do and as a result, he does not wish to dishonor them, displease them, or disappoint them. If everyone lived capriciously according to your wishes, then no one would have any scruples, values, standards, or respect at all in the way they live their lives. Such people are too few as it is. But, you are bound and determined everyone involved WILL, by hook or crook, give you what you want, see things the way you want, live the way you want. There is something wrong with you, and I mean it in the most sincere fashion possible. It was not meant to insult you. It was an honest, genuine, and true observation.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> Have you considered seeking counseling to learn some new ways of relating to people without making it be all about what you want?





legalgirl91 said:


> He won't do counseling because he believes it is for marriage
> and the church.


Yikes! Total myopia in the worst self-centered way. Everything is all about legalgirl91. This is unbelievable. If you read Mavash's question again and still think it is asking about him, here is the news......it is not asking about him.

You keep arguing with everyone (just like you do with him) and re-re-re-stating your position. We read it all the first time, but true to being you, you refuse to accept or listen to what anyone is telling you because you're not exactly able to force us all into agreeing with you. Will you fake blowing up the board like you faked breaking up with boyfriend?


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## Mephisto (Feb 20, 2011)

I'll throw 2 cents in here, he is a guy who actually knows what HE wants and is not ceding to either you OR his mother. He is respectful of his mother, which you should see as A HUGE plus, he will not move in with you to please you, nor will he propose to please you, he is in charge of his life and he is living by his rules. 

These are good things, because when he DOES decide to marry, it will be real and with everything he has, not some whimsy, but something he feels to his core. You NEED this for a marriage to work, bribery and coercion do not.....

If you are hell bent on your timeline, then ditch him and move on, but in my honest opinion, this guy is a keeper. He is doing what is right, not what is easy. 

Relax, enjoy the NOW, and the future will be SO much better!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You already have all the information you need about this man.

Do you really think it makes sense to drag a man kicking and screaming into marriage?

I also think that pushing cohabitation in a way to move toward marriage is counterproductive. What exactly will become the "prize" for him after that occurs?

You need to find a man that will pursue you and move mountains to make sure you are in his life.... That is the man you want to marry.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

legalgirl91 said:


> @mavash: thanks for the harsh criticism. I need it for sure! He won't do counseling because he believes it is for marriage
> and the church.


I'm not trying to be harsh I'm trying to help. I used to BE you so I know where your head is at.

And I meant counseling for YOU not him. He's fine you're the one who is struggling.


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## legalgirl91 (Apr 11, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> I'm not trying to be harsh I'm trying to help. I used to BE you so I know where your head is at.
> 
> And I meant counseling for YOU not him. He's fine you're the one who is struggling.


Oh! Sorry! Yes, counseling is not out of the question. I have seen a therapist in the past for non-related issues. Thanks again!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

legalgirl91 said:


> Thank you all for your advice!
> @tacoma: I am trying to decrease the distance between us without screwing myself over.
> He won't move in with me and I don't see the point in moving by him when we will continue
> to live apart. It's the same as now. / His mother IS relevant because she is his mother and she
> ...


You can`t be "equally" respected, loved, needed, cared for.
Someone must sit on top of that pile and to have a good marriage that someone is always your spouse.

Point is YOU must be the priority over everyone else in his life.

When the **** hits the fan and his parents want/need something from him that is a complete opposite and even contrary to what you want/need that call has got to fall towards you by default or you really don`t have him.

In a marriage no one comes before your spouse, not even your kids.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

River1977 said:


> There are no red flags here, not on his part. He has clearly stated that he does not want to live with you, does not want to marry you, does not want to be engaged to you. It is also not a red flag that he does not want to go against his parents' wishes. They raised him to be a principled man, not unlike themselves. They did as they were supposed to do and as a result, he does not wish to dishonor them, displease them, or disappoint them. If everyone lived capriciously according to your wishes, then no one would have any scruples, values, standards, or respect at all in the way they live their lives. Such people are too few as it is. But, you are bound and determined everyone involved WILL, by hook or crook, give you what you want, see things the way you want, live the way you want. There is something wrong with you, and I mean it in the most sincere fashion possible. It was not meant to insult you. It was an honest, genuine, and true observation.


Could you please point out what you have discerned is "wrong" with me from a single post on an internet forum.

You seem to have implied a small novel of concepts attributed to a single sentence quote that I never said, implied, or insinuated.
You can however feel free to continue to create things I didn`t say to argue against if you like.
I find it entertaining.

It is a fact as I know it that if indeed you wish to commit to a marriage then NO ONE ..NO ONE comes before your spouse .
This is simply the best way to keep a pair bond intact.
It`s the ONLY way I know of.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

I was like you when I was dating--all my relationships were serious, and I didn't want to be with anyone who wasn't head-over-heels in love with me.

I would tell your boyfriend that you are going to see other people. Don't give him an ultimatum, but let him know that you want to explore other relationships. I don't think it is selfish of you to want the kind of passion and commitment that comes with someone who is willing to marry you once you find that you are compatible.


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## legalgirl91 (Apr 11, 2012)

I want to thank everyone for their input and extend a thank you to anyone who further shares advice. I genuinely came here for advice and criticism because everyone here should be unbiased. The problem with online advice forums is that you only get the part of the story that person decides to share. Otherwise people would have to write a book, in order to explain every detail about their situation and life leading up to it. I hope I did not give the wrong idea. The problem
I posted about has been the only significant problem our relationship has had. Call it me not taking criticism/arguing with you/whatever - I didn't mean to come
off as selfish or manipulative. I am not either of those things and being called that has made me re evaluate not only how I come off on here, but to my boyfriend. While the outcome of how I have handled things with him may have produced a terrible appearance, my intentions were not to do so. Therefore, I AM going to change how I approach not only him but my own outlook on life, especially regarding time lines. I will continue to check back and read this and other forums. I really think this site is a good idea, and again I truly appreciate everyone's input thus far and in the future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kittykat09 (Mar 26, 2012)

:smthumbup: I have a lot of respect for the approach you are choosing to take. I hope everything works out well for you.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Glad that you're being open minded. Let us know how it works out for you.


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## growtogether (Feb 27, 2012)

With all the comment here I think you should get the message....
it is important to know why you want to marry the guy....Do you just want to marry him because you are in a hurry, or you have some important reasons behind this....


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## legalgirl91 (Apr 11, 2012)

I'll let you guys know how it turns out. Since I talked to him and apologized him for coming off like a controlling, manipulative brat, the past week has been a lot better. 
@growtogether: I want to marry him and not anyone else, and I realize now that my time line excuse for trying to rush things makes me come off like I want to just marry anyone so that I can do things "on time". I'm going to have to just go with the flow here...once I cooled off and started really thinking about what it would be like to lose him and start over, I realized that's not an option for me. Obviously if I'm coming to you guys in two years with the same issue with the same guy, it maybe be time to re-evaluate. But he's worth the wait for now.

Thanks again for the reality check, guys!


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## growtogether (Feb 27, 2012)

Awesome! You came out of this with a new perspective! Good for you, keep in touch with us!


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