# Is My Husband Hiring Escorts? Need Opinions



## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Ok, there's much to my story but for brevity I'll keep this as short as possible. My husband of 8 years has kept passwords on his phone and computer for the duration of our marriage. I always suspected he was hiding something. Recently, after a discussion about disclosure, he gave me his laptop and email password. Many files were missing and his history and email was cleared. I found his passwords list on his computer and looked at another email account. He's careful and deleted all history and mail on that one too. One thing that was not cleared was his contacts list. I found two contacts that worried me. The domain name was an escort service in a city in which he travels on business between 3 to 4 times per year. These were two different girls from the same escort service. I researched the girls and found out that they are indeed escorts in that city and I saved their profiles.They also fit the profile of what he likes (petite brunettes). I confronted him about it and he responded defensively with "I have no clue why they are in my contacts" and "why don't you email them and ask them if they know me?" We talked after he calmed down and he basically turned it around telling me that I don't trust him. (Granted our marriage is in recovery from his being formally verbally abusive and I'm emotionally healing from that so trust in him is low to begin with). A week later I was looking through his Google profile (on the account I found) and noticed the only thing not cleared was his youtube videos. Since I had nothing else to search I went for it. I found two youtube advertisements for escort services, one in DC and one in NY. He watched these ads the week prior to going to connecticut on a month long business trip.

He denies it all with a straight face.

Opinions?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You already know the answer to your question. Your husband is hiring prostitutes and lying to you about it. I'm sorry.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> You already know the answer to your question. Your husband is hiring prostitutes and lying to you about it. I'm sorry.


Thank you. That is exactly what my gutt is telling me.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

We always want to give the largest benefit of the doubt possible when it comes to cheating. Unfortunately, it's not usually warranted. I don't think it's just your gut telling you that he's having sex with prostitutes. I think the actual history you've found on his laptop combined with the wiping of history and pattern of using passwords all give an undeniable picture.

Again, sorry. I hope you don't have children.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> We always want to give the largest benefit of the doubt possible when it comes to cheating. Unfortunately, it's not usually warranted. I don't think it's just your gut telling you that he's having sex with prostitutes. I think the actual history you've found on his laptop combined with the wiping of history and pattern of using passwords all give an undeniable picture.
> 
> Again, sorry. I hope you don't have children.


Thank you. Because I cant find the smoking gun (try as I might) and because he's denying it with trustworthy sad eyes, I'm in a fog. Every morning I wake up and have clarity (my gut screaming at me). By evening he has me doubting again. Yes we have children.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Spend some time reading on this forum. Take a few hours or more if you can. 

You will see how effective people can be at lying about infidelity. The denials are very convincing and sincere so much of the time. Sad, but true.

You may not have a smoking gun, but you're very close & the signs you do have are all very familiar. Please read some more & wait for more people to post here.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

It is very rare that a man with all these signs is hiring escorts. Much more likely to be doing Bible study classes. Probably volunteering at a crippled children's hospital too.

There is only one explanation, hon. When someone is caught like this they have all these defense mechanisms that are deployed against you. The more you let them talk and work you over, the more you'll be worn down, confused, and manipulated.

So just tell him you know. No discussion. At this point you lay down conditions. What are your conditions. Begin the 180. You take control of the situation and wake him up to the end of cake-eating. The only thing he will respond to is your actions and the consequences he faces.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> It is very rare that a man with all these signs is hiring escorts. Much more likely to be doing Bible study classes. Probably volunteering at a crippled children's hospital too.
> 
> There is only one explanation, hon. When someone is caught like this they have all these defense mechanisms that are deployed against you. The more you let them talk and work you over, the more you'll be worn down, confused, and manipulated.
> 
> So just tell him you know. No discussion. At this point you lay down conditions. What are your conditions. Begin the 180. You take control of the situation and wake him up to the end of cake-eating. The only thing he will respond to is your actions and the consequences he faces.


Thanks. The bad part here is if it were a normal affair I would have conditions. Because we are talking escorts there's no recovery. I cannot continue the marriage if he did in fact hire escorts. Now that he's on to my investigating his actions I seriously doubt the behavior will continue (for a while anyway). So at this point I either doubt the situation enough to stay and do the 180 or I file. I think that's why I'm getting neutral opinions on it. I can't discuss with friends and family and this forum is helping me to determine if I'm over reacting or have a serious problem. I will look into the 180 program because I'm unfamiliar with it. Thanks so much.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You should get tested for STDs.

Also, you can insist that he take a polygraph. These are not reliable & have a not insignificant error rate, but some people advocate the threat of one as a device to elicit confession. (There are at least two threads here from the last two months where the H confessed sex with prostitutes when his W told him she would leave unless he agreed to a polygraph.)


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Unless he was hiring them for business contacts to use and paying for them on expenses? If that was the case if he confessed this to you and you reported it, he would be in big trouble, legally and could end up getting jail time.

Corruption, bribery, Mann Act violations, etc.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Have you checked bank statements and phone records for the periods around his trips?

C


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Unless he was hiring them for business contacts to use and paying for them on expenses? If that was the case if he confessed this to you and you reported it, he would be in big trouble, legally and could end up getting jail time.
> 
> Corruption, bribery, Mann Act violations, etc.


He's a government contractor so he doesn't hire business contacts. He files expense reports for travel and per diem only. So I don't think this applies to him.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

PBear said:


> Have you checked bank statements and phone records for the periods around his trips?
> 
> Clint


Thanks. Nothing on bank statements except cash withdrawals. Phone records do not yield anything. Credit card statements show travel expenses and a lot of paypal charges over the past two years (as far back as I could get them). But he's a car guy and buys a lot of car parts on paypal so that's inconclusive. I have reached a dead end in research and I'm left with what I have to make a decision upon.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> You should get tested for STDs.
> 
> Also, you can insist that he take a polygraph. These are not reliable & have a not insignificant error rate, but some people advocate the threat of one as a device to elicit confession. (There are at least two threads here from the last two months where the H confessed sex with prostitutes when his W told him she would leave unless he agreed to a polygraph.)


Good idea but if I know him he'll call my bluff. He has police officer friends too.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> Good idea but if I know him he'll call my bluff. He has police officer friends too.


Let him call your bluff. One man did that here and then failed the polygraph. Another did it and broke down on the way to the polygrapher.

You can hire someone completely independent & not connected with the police. Don't tell your H who this is beforehand so that he has no way of influencing the outcome.

Just saying. Where there's a will, there's a way.

If you are sure you will divorce with the proof of his hiring prostitutes, then it's worth your doing everything you can to find out. You could also hire a PI to dig.

I think the info you have now is almost conclusive, but understand your need for the smoking gun before you make the momentous decision to divorce.

(Also, have you told him that you will divorce him? Perhaps if you tell him that your only chance of saving this is for him to come clean, he will do it. He will trickle truth, but you might get something.)


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> Thanks. The bad part here is if it were a normal affair I would have conditions. Because we are talking escorts there's no recovery. I cannot continue the marriage if he did in fact hire escorts. Now that he's on to my investigating his actions I seriously doubt the behavior will continue (for a while anyway). So at this point I either doubt the situation enough to stay and do the 180 or I file. I think that's why I'm getting neutral opinions on it. I can't discuss with friends and family and this forum is helping me to determine if I'm over reacting or have a serious problem. I will look into the 180 program because I'm unfamiliar with it. Thanks so much.


I see. Not sure why the escort thing is worse than the affair. My wife has given me permission to do escorts but until they get prices down to five dollars, including hotel, for movie star quality the economics don't work out for me. You can buy a great table saw or air compressor for the prices they charge, and those are going to last you a quarter century. 

She would be livid about giving my love to someone though. That would be divorce. 

It's pretty easy to squirrel the money away, here and there, getting up a little bankroll for his one-nighters. With escorts, all the evidence he's going to leave is what you have already found - and that much was way too sloppy on his part. 

When my wife and I use the credit card at the strip joint it produces a receipt for a truck stop on the invoice. An escort service probably does the same thing. So when the wife looks at the credit card statement it is disguised as something else. So don't expect to see "Johnny's Call Girl Service" on a credit card statement. But if he is building up cash for the trip, then there will be no record at all.

One possibility is hiring a private investigator in the city he does his business trips. If the investigator has his hotel, the schedule he keeps, the names of the escort services - this is a slam dunk. But if you approach it this way you have to convince him you are sorry for doubting him and give him no reason to suspect you are on to him.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> I see. Not sure why the escort thing is worse than the affair. My wife has given me permission to do escorts but until they get prices down to five dollars, including hotel, for movie star quality the economics don't work out for me. You can buy a great table saw or air compressor for the prices they charge, and those are going to last you a quarter century.
> 
> She would be livid about giving my love to someone though. That would be divorce.
> 
> ...


Thank for the tips wiserforit. That helps my research.

I think there are two reasons why escorts are worse than a normal affair or giving one's love to someone (to me at least). Unless a couple sets boundaries stating it's ok to have an open marriage, infidelity kills marriages. I would much rather my husband throw our marriage away over someone that means something to him versus a cheap poa. It reduces the meaning of our marriage to something worth throwing away. Call me crazy but if he's in love with someone else at least that love is worth losing the marriage. Second, health. If he is doing this I have no idea if he's protected. If not he's putting the family in jeopardy. 

I will review the credit card statements again. The only high dollar services I found are automotive repairs and flights. I'll look again at the flights because I read an article stating "airport services" are often used for escort billing. 

I'm afraid I wont make it till the next business trip. I need him to account for this data. So far he's denying it and using silent "woe is me" contempt. I can't go back and pretend it's ok so I'm going to have to make a decision.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> He's a government contractor so he doesn't hire business contacts. He files expense reports for travel and per diem only. So I don't think this applies to him.


Oh. Unless his contacts are bribing hin with prostitutes? Either way, this is not good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Oh. Unless his contacts are bribing hin with prostitutes? Either way, this is not good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah. It's not good.

Thanks MattMatt


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> Thank for the tips wiserforit. That helps my research.
> 
> I think there are two reasons why escorts are worse than a normal affair or giving one's love to someone (to me at least). Unless a couple sets boundaries stating it's ok to have an open marriage, infidelity kills marriages. I would much rather my husband throw our marriage away over someone that means something to him versus a cheap poa. It reduces the meaning of our marriage to something worth throwing away. Call me crazy but if he's in love with someone else at least that love is worth losing the marriage. Second, health. If he is doing this I have no idea if he's protected. If not he's putting the family in jeopardy.
> 
> ...


Sure, hon - just wondered. It's betrayal for sure. 

Good for you in the research, yeah: auto repairs and airlines both. It's going to be in the hundreds for sure at a minimum for an escort service, and if these are high end joints it coud be more. 

If you have a guy friend who can call the escort services up and ask for prices, that would help you. He can ask if they take credit cards and if they fake a name on the invoice like the places he goes to in Reno Nevada. Act like an old hand at this. If you have no guy friend then say you are a sales executive and have some Japanese clients that expect this as a business perk. But you need to keep it all on the down low so you can't use a company phone or reveal the name of the company. You just need to budget this out for three executives, and need to know if the escorts will do role-playing like schoolgirl outfits. 

An auto repair is going to have a pretty detailed invoice for labor and parts if it is real, and if you can't find one around the house then the place that did it (if it is real) may have a copy of the invoice. So locate them and call. 

Good luck. You're in charge now. Very sorry for your troubles. I love my wife too much to do this, even though she has a fantasy about me doing a stripper. The thought isn't even that appealing to me, but I am pretty sure that the reality would not match the fantasy. Your husband is going to discover that. 

A good wife is just way too awesome to risk on something like this. A billion dollars - OK, now we're in the ballpark. But an escort - sheesh.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

We just had a five hour talk. He's adament that he has done nothing. He doesn't know how the escort contacts got in his contacts or how the youtube escort ads got in his youtube history. He was very sincere and convincing.

Anyone been here?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> We just had a five hour talk. He's adament that he has done nothing. He doesn't know how the escort contacts got in his contacts or how the youtube escort ads got in his youtube history. He was very sincere and convincing.
> 
> Anyone been here?


Groan....lots and lots of people have been there. The lying is typical, sadly. His story does not pass the smell test.

He travels for business and seeks out prostitutes while he is away. 

Polygraph or PI.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Some sample threads re the lying:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/59667-stay-leave-him.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ostitute-possibly-gave-pregnant-wife-std.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/62292-i-just-can-t-regain-trust.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/62532-think-he-might-cheating-afraid-find-out.html
and
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/64054-finally-d-day.html


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Some sample threads re the lying:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/59667-stay-leave-him.html
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for these


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> We just had a five hour talk. He's adament that he has done nothing. He doesn't know how the escort contacts got in his contacts or how the youtube escort ads got in his youtube history. He was very sincere and convincing.
> 
> Anyone been here?


Youtube have escort ads? Really? 

I am shocked. Really.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> We just had a five hour talk. He's adament that he has done nothing. He doesn't know how the escort contacts got in his contacts or how the youtube escort ads got in his youtube history. He was very sincere and convincing.
> 
> Anyone been here?


Yes, hon - every single one of us and thousands more before us. What choice do they have? They don't want to get caught. They want to continue cake-eating. 

You are right now in the grips of one of the worst things they can do to you: gaslighting, crazy-making, blame-shifting, preying upon your trust that has already been abused. 

He doesn't have an answer for the escort contacts or the youtube. Wow - how imaginative. Elves. What about everything he erased? Elves. The only things he has to offer are lies. 

You have a couple of options. One is to lay low, apologize, let him think the danger is passed and hire a P.I. for the next business trip. 

But since you've thrown down the gauntlet, you might demand the polygraph. Write out all your questions beforehand. Run them by us if you wish. Tell him you want written answers, and the same questions are going to be asked by a polygraph examiner. Schedule it. Don't bluff. 

I hired a P.I. but it was an ongoing affair. He was worth the money in a BIG way. Haha. Pictures, really damning reports including standing under his bedroom window while they were going at it.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> Yes, hon - every single one of us and thousands more before us. What choice do they have? They don't want to get caught. They want to continue cake-eating.
> 
> You are right now in the grips of one of the worst things they can do to you: gaslighting, crazy-making, blame-shifting, preying upon your trust that has already been abused.
> 
> ...


So sorry you had to go through all of this. That's awful. I'm thinking polygraph but he's military and has discussed polygraphs before. I think they get training in that. I'll have to research. If I did the polygraph and he knows how to beat it and it came out truthful I'd still not have closure but he'd have more of an argument that he's telling me the truth. Not sure the PI would work because as you said, I've thrown down the gauntlet already. He's also on this forum and is possibly reading my thread. 

There's also the possibility that he's telling the truth. But I haven't seen any elves around the house and that's the only explanation I can see for him having escorts in this contacts and viewing history.

Since we've talked he thinks I'm kind of ok now and he's all happy and normal. And I'm sitting here five feet away posting on this forum with my stomach in knots. Ug.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Youtube have escort ads? Really?
> 
> I am shocked. Really.


Yup. The ones I found in his viewing history were DCescorts and NYVipEscorts. They were ads with contact data.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

He thinks he has you contained.

The problem is that you don't believe him and you shouldn't. From a purely statistical point of view, it's a sure bet that he's cheating. He deletes his history and erases everything & even then you find these things. Just imagine what all of that looked like before he got rid of it.

So...you have to know that he is lying. The question is what you do with it. You can, in fact, do a poly. The threat of it could make him tell you the truth. Or you could be completely honest with him and bluntly tell him you simply don't believe him & that hookers are dealbreakers. Let him stew with that. Keep calmly telling him that you don't believe him. Get the appt. for an STD test & let him know you're going.

If it were me, though, I would go to a lawyer asap and not bother with the rest.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> He thinks he has you contained.
> 
> The problem is that you don't believe him and you shouldn't. From a purely statistical point of view, it's a sure bet that he's cheating. He deletes his history and erases everything & even then you find these things. Just imagine what all of that looked like before he got rid of it.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Honestly we're trying to overcome other issues (past emotional abuse) and this on top of that...well I'll just say that it's too much. 

Thanks so much.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> Thanks. Honestly we're trying to overcome other issues (past emotional abuse) and this on top of that...well I'll just say that it's too much.
> 
> Thanks so much.


He's gaslighting you now, which is emotional abuse.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> He's gaslighting you now, which is emotional abuse.


So funny you should post this. I have been researching gaslighting and I just set up a little experiment. He left the house and I checked his recently viewed tabs. I found porn. Now porn is not the issue (although it doesnt help). But I wanted to see his reaction to it. So I left the tab up and when he got home he saw the tab open and said, "what is this?" Because it was simple porn I was looking for response to determine if he was lying. I said, "you tell me?". He denied viewing it at first and then said he viewed it along time ago. Then he got mad at me. Said he's done! Let's just get a separation. So the point is he lied and turned it on me and then threatened a separation (GASLIGHTING!). Anyway all that led to me saying that I want a separation. He threatened me with turning all of our accounts off (utilities, phone, etc...). I told him I'd get a job making minimum wage if I had to (instead of waiting for a job in my field). Then he started crying and came clean. He told me that he researches escorts for fantasy but never crossed the line and he admitted to having a porn addiction. He said losing me was his biggest fear and he'll do anything to save our marriage. We talked for a couple hours about many details (how I felt, how he felt and I made it clear where I am). He offered to give me is computer and only use the desktop.

So I'm still in the same place. I know more now. But there's still that question of crossing the line from fantasy to reality.

Thoughts?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> Yup. The ones I found in his viewing history were DCescorts and NYVipEscorts. They were ads with contact data.


I have worked with Google and to a lesser extent, YouTube. I am shocked to be honest and will put a request in that they pull this kind of advert.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

They must have magically appeared into his contacts list, of course. 

He's lying. And it's obviously been more than once? Because why would he save them as contacts? 

How dare he turn this around on you and say you don't trust him! Tell him to take a lie detector test and see his reaction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> Thoughts?


Trickle truth.

He is trickling out a little at a time, but he is only admitting to what you have already proven.

That is what you conclude: he will only admit to the evidence that you put right in front of him, and even then he is going to stubbornly deny it. Until you impose consequences: I'm leaving.

Then you get the admission to what he cannot deny. 

So now you have all this other evidence that he has erased. Obviously he is not going to admit to anything there unless you can retrieve it. 

So my advice is to set down your conditions. He has done more than you have discovered, of course, so you have to decide if you are staying with him. But at a minimum you need to study up on the 180. Do it. No discussion with him, just do it. You are preparing for life on your own. You can give him the conditions you expect from him, no negotiations, and not even promise him you are staying with him. But if he wants any chance at all, he meets those conditions. 

But truly, sincerely, begin the 180 to prepare yourself for life without him. Than you'll be prepared and it is a win for you no matter how this works out.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Yup, trickle truth...

They will only admit as much as they think you know...

There is so much more you don't even know about. 

And the crying and wanting the marriage? The tears are b/c he was caught. Nothing more, nothing less. He is scared b/c the truth is coming out.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Wiserforit said:


> So my advice is to set down your conditions. He has done more than you have discovered, of course, so you have to decide if you are staying with him. But at a minimum you need to study up on the 180. Do it. No discussion with him, just do it. You are preparing for life on your own. You can give him the conditions you expect from him, no negotiations, and not even promise him you are staying with him. But if he wants any chance at all, he meets those conditions.
> 
> But truly, sincerely, begin the 180 to prepare yourself for life without him. Than you'll be prepared and it is a win for you no matter how this works out.


:iagree:


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> Trickle truth.
> 
> He is trickling out a little at a time, but he is only admitting to what you have already proven.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Where do I get information on the 180?


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Never mind


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Never Mind


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Thank you Wiserforit


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm assuming you got the 180 info.

And yes, this is classic trickle truth. It seems the guys who are into porn and callgirls are the ones who get most pathetic when they start to break down.

You know you don't have the truth.

Make an appointment for STD testing and tell him you've done it. You need to do it for yourself & his reaction will be telling.

Also, keep telling him you don't believe you have the truth. Keep letting him know that. The pressure on him will let him trickle out more and more.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> I'm assuming you got the 180 info.
> 
> And yes, this is classic trickle truth. It seems the guys who are into porn and callgirls are the ones who get most pathetic when they start to break down.
> 
> ...


I am goIng to get tested. Thanks for your advice and opinions. I don't think I have the truth either.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

Nothing worse than finding such strong evidence of something (but without the smoking gun) and getting lied to like he thinks you are an idiot. I got this 3 or 4 times in my life for various topics and it is so frustrating.

Hopefully you can follow the money trail and find something that he must explain. As others have said, if he has an escort habit, there will likely be thousands of dollars that are unaccounted for whether paid by cash or credit card. Unless this is just an insignificant amount in your overall finances you should be able to see some patterns. Of course a liar like that will have an explanation for everything whether or not it's even plausible - entertaining customers or his staff, etc. At least you can begin to apply pressure and make him aware that you don't believe him and his funding for this habit is effectively gone. Be careful to cover all of your bank and investment accounts because you might just drive it further underground and he might find other sources of funding from your other accounts. In short, get involved in the finances if you aren't already and know where your money is going.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

couple said:


> Nothing worse than finding such strong evidence of something (but without the smoking gun) and getting lied to like he thinks you are an idiot. I got this 3 or 4 times in my life for various topics and it is so frustrating.
> 
> Hopefully you can follow the money trail and find something that he must explain. As others have said, if he has an escort habit, there will likely be thousands of dollars that are unaccounted for whether paid by cash or credit card. Unless this is just an insignificant amount in your overall finances you should be able to see some patterns. Of course a liar like that will have an explanation for everything whether or not it's even plausible - entertaining customers or his staff, etc. At least you can begin to apply pressure and make him aware that you don't believe him and his funding for this habit is effectively gone. Be careful to cover all of your bank and investment accounts because you might just drive it further underground and he might find other sources of funding from your other accounts. In short, get involved in the finances if you aren't already and know where your money is going.


Thanks. He was military and now a gov. contractor so we don't have extensive funding and he doesn't have clients. I don't think he could have pulled off the escort thing more than a couple times because I would have found a money trail.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

See the link to the 180 in my signature block below.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GottaKnow said:


> Thanks. He was military and now a gov. contractor so we don't have extensive funding and he doesn't have clients. I don't think he could have pulled off the escort thing more than a couple times because I would have found a money trail.


If you cannot find a money trail, look at receipts from when he goes to the store. You'd be surprised how much cash a person can put together pulling out a $10, $20, $40 every thing they go to a store.. like when they gas up, buy a soda, buy things for home repairs, groceries, etc.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> See the link to the 180 in my signature block below.


Thanks.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> Yup. The ones I found in his viewing history were DCescorts and NYVipEscorts. They were ads with contact data.


 The pricing on the New York VIP escorts are on this page:

Outcall Escorts NYC | NY Outcall Escorts by vipescorts.com

Three thousand for a dinner 'till 1 am engagement.

Six thousand dollars for 12 hour all-night engagement.

They accept all major credit cards, and this place will for sure be smart enough to conceal their name as something innocuous.

This is just incredible. The cabbies around here say that a street walker is fifty bucks. WTF. In Reno where prostitution is legal it's like 10% of these amounts but then again these are six to 12 hour shifts and not just a wham-bam-thankyou-ma'am. Plus New York is about the most expensive city in the USA. 

They have hourly rates. But these amounts are going to be difficult to hide!

Ghastly waste of money. Blows me away.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> The pricing on the New York VIP escorts are on this page:
> 
> Outcall Escorts NYC | NY Outcall Escorts by vipescorts.com
> 
> ...


Well you just made me feel better about the NYVip escorts. There's no way he would be able to pull off that amount undetected.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Here's an update...

My husband finally admitted to contacting the escorts but deleting their replied emails and not going through with it. However, I recently discovered two paypal charges to ADL Media with their phone number. I researched it and found out that the number and charge was from a dating site "****** *******". This dating site is for married people seeking affairs with married people. How it works is you sign up for free and create a profile. Then when you find someone you want to contact you buy credits. It is 5 credits to contact someone. The first ADL Media charge was for a 50 credit package. The second ADL Media change was a delete profile charge. So he had 50 credits for about 14 months before deleting the profile. He told me that he bought the credits and never used them. 

He also has a post on here seeking advise, in this section under his username bubblehead. There you can read his perception of things.

Thoughts?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> This dating site is for married people seeking affairs with married people


I think that tells you a great deal.

He probably looked at the call girl sites and decided they were too costly.

But he looked at the "Cheating Spouses R Us site" and was looking to have an affair.

Now, to my mind, that's bad enough. Going through with it would be worse.

Polygraph. Paid for out of his money is my recommendation at this point.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I think that tells you a great deal.
> 
> He probably looked at the call girl sites and decided they were too costly.
> 
> ...


Thanks MattMatt,

Honestly, this charge (50 credits) was purcahsed 4 months after I left Hawaii and relocated to SC, one month prior to his Christmas visit with us and three weeks after I was dealing with my mom in the hospital in a coma and my daughter (age 19 at the time) in jail for a DUI. I was under so much stress during this time. What he should have been thinking was flying home to help me. Instead he decided to buy credits on a married cheaters site. 

I think that's enough. No polygraph needed. At a time when I needed the most support he's planning to get some strange. Whether he went through with it or not, his thoughts were not with his wife coping with her mom in a coma and her daughter in jail (at the same time mind you). His thoughts were on dirty deeds. Breaks my heart.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You're right that his thoughts were in places that point to cheating & the thoughts alone can be enough to say that the marriage isn't worth it to many people because the trust is no longer there.

If it's the fact that he actually cheated that matters to you, then have him do a poly.

(I read his post & thought it was written for a BS to read - I personally would be very surprised if he hasn't actually cheated.)


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> You're right that his thoughts were in places that point to cheating & the thoughts alone can be enough to say that the marriage isn't worth it to many people because the trust is no longer there.
> 
> If it's the fact that he actually cheated that matters to you, then have him do a poly.
> 
> (I read his post & thought it was written for a BS to read - I personally would be very surprised if he hasn't actually cheated.)


Thank you for your thoughts. As you can see he's very persuasive. But I simply do not buy it. Nor do I care to anymore.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GottaKnow said:


> Thank you for your thoughts. As you can see he's very persuasive. But I simply do not buy it. Nor do I care to anymore.


I agree with you that at some point whether he cheated or not is not the issue. It’s the way he has treated you. 

When I left my son’s father, I had evidence of him cheating. But I never did anything go pursue more info on the cheating. I decided that the way he was treating me was enough to leave him. 

Been there, done that. So I get your point of view on this.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and opinions. It helped me navigate these waters of self doubt. I am no longer in a fog. I've made my decision and I feel strong. Thank you so very much.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> He also has a post on here seeking advise, in this section under his username bubblehead. There you can read his perception of things.
> 
> Thoughts?


My thought is that you are very foolish for showing your husband this forum. You already know he's a liar and you're convinced he's a cheater. You've been given some great advice by several posters, most of which is now useless since he's read all of it and he's figured out your strategy he also knows what you know and he'll find ways to lie himself out of those truths as well. 

One example



alte Dame said:


> Also, you can insist that he take a polygraph. These are not reliable & have a not insignificant error rate, but some people advocate the threat of one as a device to elicit confession



I suggest that once the divorce starts you don't post your intentions and other important things on here that you don't want him to know about.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> Good idea but if I know him he'll call my bluff. He has police officer friends too.


Considering that you INVITED HIM TO THIS FORUM and he has read about how you're bluffing, he'll definitely call your bluff.

I'm thinking the two of you are really only posting here because you know the other is reading it.

Why not just sit down and talk about it, and stop wasting bandwidth.


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## boogie110 (Aug 3, 2012)

Ok - I know why you showed him this site - it's no big deal - you - in your heart know what he did and want him to admit everything. You want him to admit he took money out of atms and various stores and hid the money and saved until he was able to pay enough for sex from all these women. THAT IS WHAT MY HUSBAND DID! HE KEPT A P^$$Y BANK in his truck and in his business folder. Nice guy I married. Yes, I had no idea!!! I was a complete putz!! See, I trusted him. He wanted to get married. But alas, he wanted me, marriage and prostitutes too - you know, the whole shabang, bang, bang...

Do not believe anything a man who pays for sex says! But, it seems you are in shock - AND WHY WOULDN'T YOU BE????

You married a prostitute f^kker. That was my nickname for my husband for about 2 months. Hey, prostitute f^kker...and texting, dear prostitute f^kker. They - these "men" must be so proud to be a sexual hobbyist - it really is something to tell the kids when they get older, huh? Bet he doesn't like that idea. Or what about his Mommy? How about co-workers? Get him to a therapist who handles sex addiction and better if the therapist is male and is a former addict - he won't allow BS. Then do a full disclosure - with polygraph.

So sorry you are in shock. So sorry we are both in the same evil predicament. Our husbands as enemies. 

Or you can just divorce his a$$$. That too is fine, if you can afford it. Or you can sit and wait for him to confess - ya, good luck with that one...He is a pathological liar. He cannot tell you the truth right now and will not until a lot of professional help. And you need it too - look into S-anon. I started there - after a few sessions with my H with a "pretend" sex addict therapist - he was not CSAT. You need CSAT - certified sex addict therapist. Some people here will say your husband can only be a sex addict if they are actually diagnosed by a CSAT therapist --- but I think we know the truth.

I wish you all the best. Be strong and maybe start posting on another site also - one he doesn't know about......


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

kindi said:


> Considering that you INVITED HIM TO THIS FORUM and he has read about how you're bluffing, he'll definitely call your bluff.
> 
> I'm thinking the two of you are really only posting here because you know the other is reading it.
> 
> Why not just sit down and talk about it, and stop wasting bandwidth.


Thanks Kindi. Actually, I got this site from him. He suggested I post here about overcoming his emotional abuse back in October. I received so much help that I decided to post here when I found out about the infidelity. I honestly didn't care if he saw it because I was looking for nonbiased opions and I needed some strength. My H and I talk daily (for hours) and daily he makes me question my mind. So talk between us is nonstop. This forum helped me to stand firm in my suspicions. Then when I found the last evidence (the married affair site and paid credits) he knew it was gone. So I guess he posted here. Maybe for me to read, maybe to get some consolation. I'm not sure. But even his post is beneficial to me. It's not about what he says. It's about the non-biased opinions.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

boogie110 said:


> Ok - I know why you showed him this site - it's no big deal - you - in your heart know what he did and want him to admit everything. You want him to admit he took money out of atms and various stores and hid the money and saved until he was able to pay enough for sex from all these women. THAT IS WHAT MY HUSBAND DID! HE KEPT A P^$$Y BANK in his truck and in his business folder. Nice guy I married. Yes, I had no idea!!! I was a complete putz!! See, I trusted him. He wanted to get married. But alas, he wanted me, marriage and prostitutes too - you know, the whole shabang, bang, bang...
> 
> Do not believe anything a man who pays for sex says! But, it seems you are in shock - AND WHY WOULDN'T YOU BE????
> 
> ...


So sorry you're dealing with this. This kind of stuff really makes one's world crash. There's a surreal aspect to it in which one wakes up daily and the first thought of the day is "really?...damn!" It's sad that it's the first thing I think about when I wake up. I'm sure it is for you as well.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Ok, a few weeks have passed and things are just getting crazy. H still maintains that I know everything and he did not persue the escorts in his contact list or use the credits on the married person cheating site. He says, "I've told you everything. Do you want me to lie?" Granted he only confessed partially to hard evidence I found and offered me nothing more. And I've found a few deleted email accounts completely stripped of any data.

Of course in my gut I know that a. I've only found the tip of the iceberg given the fact that all his history was deleted and I've reached the end of my research trail and b. why buy credits on a married person cheating site and not use them?

With that said I have asked for a seperation several times over. We'll have a huge arguement, I'll again state that I am filing and the next day he acts like all is normal and I have to go through the whole thing again. He focuses on the future like nothing is wrong. So again I have to remind him that I am filing. I have to wait to file because he requested I wait till March. He's due to leave on a 2 month long business trip soon and that is when I'll file and we will start residing seperately. But in the meantime I have to relive this over and over again.

I feel like I'm going crazy. It's like reverse gaslighting...sweet and sincere. Being the model H. So that makes me feel guilty.

Anyone been here?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I don't think this is reverse gaslighting. I think it's your basic, tried and true, normal gaslighting. He's telling you that things aren't the way you say they are.

So, he's worn you down, it sounds like. You asked if anyone has ever been through this. I had a bf once who acted similarly - he basically wouldn't let me break up with him and acted like any discussion about it was erased from memory. So I finally put him on a bus back to his home town (actually physically escorted him to the bus and pushed him on). But that's a bf, not a H that you have to divorce to get the point across.

Sorry. It sounds like he really, really, really wants to stay married to you. And it is definitely the tip of the iceberg. Why else would everything be deleted and wiped clean? He's getting rid of proof and then bluffing as a very last resort. I actually feel some sympathy for him but would never want to be married to that.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> I don't think this is reverse gaslighting. I think it's your basic, tried and true, normal gaslighting. He's telling you that things aren't the way you say they are.
> 
> So, he's worn you down, it sounds like. You asked if anyone has ever been through this. I had a bf once who acted similarly - he basically wouldn't let me break up with him and acted like any discussion about it was erased from memory. So I finally put him on a bus back to his home town (actually physically escorted him to the bus and pushed him on). But that's a bf, not a H that you have to divorce to get the point across.
> 
> Sorry. It sounds like he really, really, really wants to stay married to you. And it is definitely the tip of the iceberg. Why else would everything be deleted and wiped clean? He's getting rid of proof and then bluffing as a very last resort. I actually feel some sympathy for him but would never want to be married to that.


Your last statement "I actually feel some sympathy for him but would never want to be married to that" is so true. I'm sure that's why I am feeling bad right now. He is remorsefull and waiting on me hand and foot. I do sympathize with him but I know he's still lying to me. I have told him that if he puts everything on the table at least I'll feel he's being honest and I can wade through everything and determine if I can overcome it. But as long as he refuses to tell me anything...it's over. Still nothing but denial, and sweetness, and acting like none of this has happened. 

It's all so crazy...


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You can't do any more than what you are doing. Maybe you can try one last time to tell him it's either all of the truth or divorce. If he doesn't start being honest, there's absolutely no chance. If he is honest, there's always a possibility you will D, but at least you will consider.

I read his thread. He was adamant that he hasn't cheated, but the erased files and what you've found anyway simply makes what he claims unbelievable.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Thanks. You are right. It's simply unbelievable. It's that simple. 

And to have to deal with him acting like none of this happened. He actually says, "what's wrong?" to me daily. I just look at him like, "really?" and he continues as if nothing has happened. Then I have to say something like, "just can't keep my mind off of where we are". Then he'll say, "what do you mean?" and we're back into the conversation again. So I've been just going with the flow and only discussing it when he does something in direct conflict with the separation. Such as future planning or wanting to buy me a new car. Then I say, "you know I wont be able to afford that on my own" and he says, "what do you mean?". Honestly it's maddening.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You talked initially about verbal abuse, I think, as the reason that you initially came here. Has that gotten better?


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> You talked initially about verbal abuse, I think, as the reason that you initially came here. Has that gotten better?


He's actually done a 180 in that department. Like hes a completely different guy.


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## Goodwoman (Dec 11, 2009)

I am starting to think there is a script of excuses these guys use, because I've heard the same ones you have. I even a few weeks ago found a profile on a dating site that I accessed through his email and he was logged in on his phone....he still denied it!!! Trust your gut.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> He's actually done a 180 in that department. Like hes a completely different guy.


Well, people can change. If he could be persuaded to tell you the truth about the prostitutes, maybe you two would have a chance. Sad.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Goodwoman said:


> I am starting to think there is a script of excuses these guys use, because I've heard the same ones you have. I even a few weeks ago found a profile on a dating site that I accessed through his email and he was logged in on his phone....he still denied it!!! Trust your gut.


Wow...sounds like we married the same guy...Maybe it's a script. Maybe there's a website out there that instructs then what to do when getting caught. Maybe it's an innate self preservation defense (denial). What they don't understand is that it's the lying that ends it. WSs need to realize that if they come clean and are transparent it establishes a little seed of trust back into the relationship. But lies and denials create a pit of distrust (upon the distrust from infidelity). It's the nail in the coffin. 

Such a shame.... Sorry your guy did this to you too. Nothing is worse than knowing and getting flat denial. It's a slap in the face.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Well, people can change. If he could be persuaded to tell you the truth about the prostitutes, maybe you two would have a chance. Sad.


:iagree:


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Maybe he's reading this and will take a chance.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Maybe he's reading this and will take a chance.


He's in a hear, see, speak no evil stage. He's distancing from the situation as if nothing happened so he's not on TAM at all. But when I file, the reality of it may bring him back here and he may read it and decide that transparancy can only help at the stage. We'll see.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Bubblehead - I'm just a stranger on a forum site, so this is really just for what it's worth.

I have a lot of sympathy for you. You sound like you love your wife and I find myself believing that you didn't cheat.

So, let's say she believes that. You have to address the fact that you obviously wanted to. This is extremely hurtful and a betrayal. You also have to address the deleted files. This looks very bad.

I wish both of you luck. As I said, I think this is sad for you two.


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## boogie110 (Aug 3, 2012)

Unfortunately, for both of you, to be a cheater you must first be completely proficient at lying.

Cheater = lier.

The more a cheater lies, the better he is, the more it is true to him/her.

Polygraph time.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

Bubblehead - Even if you pass a polygraph, can things ever be the same again with your having gone so far down the line towards cheating?


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## ItsGonnabeAlright (Nov 19, 2012)

I'm sorry this happened to you..too. Believe me you are not the only one going through this crap. It really sucks. The lies they come up with are so incredibly stupid. Escorts don't even give you their real name, so of course he's going to say that crap, suggesting you ask them. lol. What a jerk. Move on with your life. There's better men out there, believe me. I've put up with so much of this crap from my own husband, and believe me when I tell you I am planning a wonderful divorce.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Bubblehead said:


> Wow just wow. I am the husband. Lots of nice talk here. I havent been on here in a while. Its good when I see things like this.
> I understand the thought process here on many of you and I understand you cant believe me. But ,I never went through with the escort thing. cant even remember when I did contact her. It could have been many years ago. Regardless. And theother site. well I never went through it all with my wife and explained what didnt happen. I made a mistake. A big mistake here. I cant apologize enough. But since she has made her decision. I guess all we can do is follow through then instead of trying to fix things. I never cheated on you NEVER. I may have crossed a theoretical line but I never cheated on you.


I don't find myself believing you.

Even if you didn't physically cheat, what you did is a betrayal of your marriage.

It's no wonder she doesn't believe what you say.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Thanks everyone. I'm still wading through this. I just dodged a major bullet (health wise) and have been concentrating on that. When it rains it pours. But that downpour has stopped, thank goodness. Thanks for your support and opinions. For those of you going through the same thing, your words are encouraging. It's a tough spot and challenges one's sanity daily.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

why don't you email them and ask them if they know me?


This right here is a DARE!! He knows you won't and even if you did contact them they probably wouldn't remember him anyway.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

GottaKnow said:


> Ok, there's much to my story but for brevity I'll keep this as short as possible. My husband of 8 years has kept passwords on his phone and computer for the duration of our marriage. I always suspected he was hiding something. Recently, after a discussion about disclosure, he gave me his laptop and email password. Many files were missing and his history and email was cleared. I found his passwords list on his computer and looked at another email account. He's careful and deleted all history and mail on that one too. One thing that was not cleared was his contacts list. I found two contacts that worried me. The domain name was an escort service in a city in which he travels on business between 3 to 4 times per year. These were two different girls from the same escort service. I researched the girls and found out that they are indeed escorts in that city and I saved their profiles.They also fit the profile of what he likes (petite brunettes). I confronted him about it and he responded defensively with "I have no clue why they are in my contacts" and "why don't you email them and ask them if they know me?" We talked after he calmed down and he basically turned it around telling me that I don't trust him. (Granted our marriage is in recovery from his being formally verbally abusive and I'm emotionally healing from that so trust in him is low to begin with). A week later I was looking through his Google profile (on the account I found) and noticed the only thing not cleared was his youtube videos. Since I had nothing else to search I went for it. I found two youtube advertisements for escort services, one in DC and one in NY. He watched these ads the week prior to going to connecticut on a month long business trip.
> 
> He denies it all with a straight face.
> 
> Opinions?


 Ok so he deny's everything.. I would look at past bank statements, credit card statement that sort of thing. He has to pay them somehow.. Start there and I would not mention any more findings to him, until you get more... But you already know what he is doing while he is "way on business"


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

GottaKnow said:


> Thank you. Because I cant find the smoking gun (try as I might) and because he's denying it with trustworthy sad eyes, I'm in a fog. Every morning I wake up and have clarity (my gut screaming at me). By evening he has me doubting again. Yes we have children.


 This is completely NORMAL a part of your body is telling you one thing and another part is telling you something different. Keep with your gut, because usually it is RIGHT!


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

GottaKnow said:


> We just had a five hour talk. He's adament that he has done nothing. He doesn't know how the escort contacts got in his contacts or how the youtube escort ads got in his youtube history. He was very sincere and convincing.
> 
> Anyone been here?


 Yes he is Lying through his teeth.. He knows exactly how they got there, he just forgot to delete them.. Believe me I know you want to believe him, but I am telling you he is lying!


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Thanks Ladybird. I like the quote on your page. That's exactly how my home feels...day in and day out. Thanks for your thoughts. Sounds like you've been here too.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> Thanks. You are right. It's simply unbelievable. It's that simple.
> 
> And to have to deal with him acting like none of this happened. He actually says, "what's wrong?" to me daily. I just look at him like, "really?" and he continues as if nothing has happened. Then I have to say something like, "just can't keep my mind off of where we are". Then he'll say, "what do you mean?" and we're back into the conversation again. So I've been just going with the flow and only discussing it when he does something in direct conflict with the separation. Such as future planning or wanting to buy me a new car. Then I say, "you know I wont be able to afford that on my own" and he says, "what do you mean?". Honestly it's maddening.


Emotional abuse. Pretending you are crazy for being upset.

Honestly you should be flitting about like a little bird, chirping and singing sweetly, right?  Isn't that what everyone does when they discover infidility?

Think very carefully about what kind of scruples it takes to look upon a devastated person and tell them that they are weird or perverted, overly sensitive and self-absorbed for being upset.

The look on his face will be this carefully contrived pretense of sincerity. Forget about what he did in the past and for the moment look at what kind of deceit you are dealing with right here. This is unacceptable.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> Emotional abuse. Pretending you are crazy for being upset.
> 
> Honestly you should be flitting about like a little bird, chirping and singing sweetly, right?  Isn't that what everyone does when they discover infidility?
> 
> ...


Thanks Wiserforit. Honestly I don't know if he's being self absorbed or just desperately wants to forget everything and move forward. Not that it matters. Until he comes clean and owns what he's done there's no trust and I feel he's still lying. So desperate or not, I'm not giving in. Every day that he states that he's owned up to everything already is one more day of lying. So, I'm biding my time. Even if he's genuinely upset and not purposely using emotional tactics, we're still in the same place. So... Just maddening going through it. I keep having to push back the guilt I feel and remind myself that I didn't do this...he did. But this thread is helping me tremendously.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

GottaKnow said:


> Thanks Wiserforit. Honestly I don't know if he's being self absorbed or just desperately wants to forget everything and move forward. Not that it matters. Until he comes clean and owns what he's done there's no trust and I feel he's still lying. So desperate or not, I'm not giving in. Every day that he states that he's owned up to everything already is one more day of lying. So, I'm biding my time. Even if he's genuinely upset and not purposely using emotional tactics, we're still in the same place. So... Just maddening going through it. I keep having to push back the guilt I feel and remind myself that I didn't do this...he did. But this thread is helping me tremendously.


I'm sure there is some pschological term for it besides DENIAL and LYING, but when I used to cheat. I would confess ever until the proof was in my face and unfallible. I was always like that though as a kid, teen, and young adult. 

My guess is until you prove it without a shadow of a doubt he will deny!


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

OhGeesh said:


> I'm sure there is some pschological term for it besides DENIAL and LYING, but when I used to cheat. I would confess ever until the proof was in my face and unfallible. I was always like that though as a kid, teen, and young adult.
> 
> My guess is until you prove it without a shadow of a doubt he will deny!


Thanks. It is helpful to get the other perspective here. I really appreciate hearing your point of view.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

OhGeesh said:


> I'm sure there is some pschological term for it besides DENIAL and LYING, but when I used to cheat. I would confess ever until the proof was in my face and unfallible. I was always like that though as a kid, teen, and young adult.
> 
> My guess is until you prove it without a shadow of a doubt he will deny!


Clinton !


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

OhGeesh said:


> I'm sure there is some pschological term for it besides DENIAL and LYING, but when I used to cheat. I would confess ever until the proof was in my face and unfallible. I was always like that though as a kid, teen, and young adult.
> 
> My guess is until you prove it without a shadow of a doubt he will deny!


Quick question for you Oh Geesh. Was your refusal to confess based upon a fear of reprecusion? A fear of failure? Did you just not want the drama? Or did you prefer to continue your lifestyle? Just trying understand the motivation behind it.

My H would rather lose the marraige than confess. I'm moving out tomorrow. So I'm trying to understand why he's willing to go to these extremes versus confess. I think in his case he has a fear of failure...of being seen as a cheater. Not that I would destroy his name. That would be uncalled for.

Thanks for your opinions.


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## boogie110 (Aug 3, 2012)

I am so hurt for you. I hate reading this post, honestly, because I have pain in my heart for you.

It's not because of the cheating...cheating happens all the time..

It's the constant denial and the fact that lying to you is more important than your dignity or self worth as a human being or respect. He will NOT give you any of that. Here, he could start telling you everything: all the paid women he has had, maybe such a huge amount he just can't fathom telling you - tough! 

You deserve the truth. You do not deserve the pain, but you deserve the truth. No matter how many women he has had. And when they can pay for it - and it really isn't that much money - women will scr*w for very little cash - the numbers start goingu up and going up. It's probably so many that he doesn't even know for sure how many he has had. It costs that little money. It's like getting your hair done. Cheaper in many cases. Just cut out some expense here and there and save up the cash and soon you can pay for so much sex.

The reason I am going on about this is that to me, it isn't about the other women now - it is the fact that he is so selfish he would rather continue hiding and pretending and making you crazy than just fessing up to everything. Even if you could live with the truth - he makes it so you can't. He is just an awful man. I am so sorry. If he would confess then he wouldn't be an awful man, but what he is doing is criminal to you. I am so sorry! If you find that you are going to R in the future - make sure it is with a qualified counselor who work with polygraph, etc. So many counselors just believe whatever the unfaithful spouse says - it make it easier for them - the counselors, they don't have to worry about working hard for the money either, they get paid whether the cheater tells the truth or not.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

boogie110 said:


> I am so hurt for you. I hate reading this post, honestly, because I have pain in my heart for you.
> 
> It's not because of the cheating...cheating happens all the time..
> 
> ...


Thanks so much. I agree. The denial is much worse because it robs me of my dignity and challenges my sanity. However, I am strong and resilient. I made a decision to move forward and stop focusing on finding the truth. At this point I must leave it behind and focus on myself. So tomorrow I will begin a new chapter. It may be tough but I am sure it will be much easier than the limbo I've been in. Thanks again.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

I moved out today. Can't tell you it's easy. It's really tough. But I imagine the first steps are the hardest. Thanks everyone for your help.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm so sorry it has come to this  I wish nothing but the best for you and I hope your ex gets the help he needs. One day at a time now!


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> I'm so sorry it has come to this  I wish nothing but the best for you and I hope your ex gets the help he needs. One day at a time now!


Thanks. I feel bad for H too. Ug... How I'd like to fast forward a year or two.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

This is very tough for you. I'm sorry. You said in your original post that you had suspicions for the length of your marriage. I hope having made a decision gives you some peace. It's too soon, no doubt, but I hope there's some closure for you in the future.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> This is very tough for you. I'm sorry. You said in your original post that you had suspicions for the length of your marriage. I hope having made a decision gives you some peace. It's too soon, no doubt, but I hope there's some closure for you in the future.


Thanks. I don't know how I feel right now. You are right. It's too soon for clarity or peace. Day by day...


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your tone on this thread has been calm, controlled and logical. Somehow I think you are extremely hurt and not so calm. How has your H responded?


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Bubblehead said:


> Wow just wow. I am the husband. Lots of nice talk here. I havent been on here in a while. Its good when I see things like this.
> I understand the thought process here on many of you and I understand you cant believe me. But ,I never went through with the escort thing. cant even remember when I did contact her. It could have been many years ago. Regardless. And theother site. well I never went through it all with my wife and explained what didnt happen. I made a mistake. A big mistake here. I cant apologize enough. But since she has made her decision. I guess all we can do is follow through then instead of trying to fix things. I never cheated on you NEVER. I may have crossed a theoretical line but I never cheated on you.


Stop tring to b.s. everyone. You're not believed because your story is unbelievable. 

Escort contacts in phone to a city you travel to on business.

Don't "remember" when you contacted them...could have been years ago". Bullchit. 

If you are innocent, submit to a polygraph. And don't give anyone any nonsense about you can't afford it, because your wife is getting ready to take you to the cleaners (and rightfully so) in divorce. A $500 polygraph will pay for TWO HOURS of your divorce lawyer's time. No nonsense about they're not accurate (you're already not believed, so what is there to lose?).

I'm not big on polygraphs, but as your actions leave virtually zero doubt as to what you've done, if by some miracle you've actually done nothing physical and are "innocent" (I mean, other than contacting escorts and cheating women on AM.com) well then, a polygraph is a no brainer, isn't it? Or are you going to come back with the tired old line of "well, if she doesn't believe me, I guess the marriage is over anyway, so why bother" schtick?

You can't "fix things" until she knows the truth. Right now she doesn't. And you KNOW this. She wants to believe you because she loves you, and even she's not buying it. As for everyone else here, there's no fog for us to look through, the picture is crystal clear. Who are you trying to bullchit?


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Your tone on this thread has been calm, controlled and logical. Somehow I think you are extremely hurt and not so calm. How has your H responded?


Alte Dame. You are right. I am extremely hurt. I don't know what to believe and that makes it so much worse. Part of me (my gut) knows. The other part screams...what if he's telling me the truth. So there's guilt and uncertainly. I feel like I'm losing my mind. And the fact that I just left my home and relocated my daughter to my parents house doesn't help. But I'm at a point where I can't go forward so I must go back. So yes, I'm hurting. I can deal with nearly anything but being torn in what to believe. So, it's not even about infidelity anymore. I honestly don't know who he is or who I am for that matter. 

There's no more anger...just pain. It really sux. 

H is emailing me very sweet things and mantaining he hasn't done anything. I think that's working my mind over tonight. I feel horrible and guilty.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

donny64 said:


> Stop tring to b.s. everyone. You're not believed because your story is unbelievable.
> 
> Escort contacts in phone to a city you travel to on business.
> 
> ...


Thanks Donny. A polygraph certainly wouldn't hurt at the point.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> Alte Dame. You are right. I am extremely hurt. I don't know what to believe and that makes it so much worse. Part of me (my gut) knows. The other part screams...what if he's telling me the truth. So there's guilt and uncertainly. I feel like I'm losing my mind. And the fact that I just left my home and relocated my daughter to my parents house doesn't help. But I'm at a point where I can't go forward so I must go back. So yes, I'm hurting. I can deal with nearly anything but being torn in what to believe. So, it's not even about infidelity anymore. I honestly don't know who he is or who I am for that matter.
> 
> There's no more anger...just pain. It really sux.
> 
> H is emailing me very sweet things and mantaining he hasn't done anything. I think that's working my mind over tonight. I feel horrible and guilty.


That's the thing... He's caught. Busted. He knows it. But he doesn't have the decency to put your mind at ease. He'd rather let you suffer and torment yourself with the "Am I doing the right thing? What if I'm wrong and he's telling the truth" thing than just come clean and let you go peacefully and give you time to make an informed decision.

His story has more holes than a bums' socks. He's playing on your history with him and love for him to get him out of this mess, instead of being able to have it over and done with in the matter of a DAY if he wanted to and was being truthful (polygraph). This could be done TOMORROW if he wanted to. But he won't do it. THAT should be all the confirmation you need to set your mind at ease about if you're doing the right thing.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

donny64 said:


> That's the thing... He's caught. Busted. He knows it. But he doesn't have the decency to put your mind at ease. He'd rather let you suffer and torment yourself with the "Am I doing the right thing? What if I'm wrong and he's telling the truth" thing than just come clean and let you go peacefully and give you time to make an informed decision.
> 
> His story has more holes than a bums' socks. He's playing on your history with him and love for him to get him out of this mess, instead of being able to have it over and done with in the matter of a DAY if he wanted to and was being truthful (polygraph). This could be done TOMORROW if he wanted to. But he won't do it. THAT should be all the confirmation you need to set your mind at ease about if you're doing the right thing.


Thanks Donny. It's crazy how this post has gone from me finding stuff suggesting infidelity, to his denial, to me finding more stuff, to more denial, to finding more stuff, to a partial confession and now a lock down straight out denial. Now it's not even about infidelity as much as it's about the mental aspect of what to believe. You are correct. There are things that could be done (polygraph and recovery of data) but those things aren't being considered. That is telling in itself. I think I need to turn my mind off for the night and hopefully wake up with a fresh perspective. My mind is always clearer in the morning.

But perspectives like yours do keep me strong believing that I'm not going crazy. Thank you.


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