# My god, help. 1.2



## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

Ongoing problems. For a ton of background please see http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/9501-truth-comes-out-i-am-ok.html

Today my wife told me she felt nothing for me and she did not want to keep trying to make things work between us, and she wants me to let go of her, that things will never work between us.

Almost a year ago exactly my wife and I had some major problems. A quick recap: We have four kids under 7. We have been together 11 years on and off, but 7 years steady. She did not talk to me or touch me for an entire month (oct 2011), other than to tell me absolutely nescessary things. 

The main faults I have are that I do not clean up after myself, tend to throw my jacket wherever it lands when I come home, same with shoes etc. and do not make enough of a contribution in the house (cooking, cleaning etc.). She has said over and over and over again that will drive her away from me. It started when we would just fight about it and I would semi-agree to do more. Then I would fall back into my habits after a few weeks. Then it became her withdrawing from me and I would agree to do more and fall back into my habits after a few weeks. 

More problems are that when we get close we tend to do things that push each other away. I tend to get clingy and possessive when we are close. Also, I can be very neglectful. Like coming home from work and heading straight to the computer and ignoring her after giving her a kiss and talking to her for a minute.

Then the month where she just didn't talk to me or interact with me. We agreed to work on things, had great sex and things started to improve all the sudden A LOT. I had corrected my faults, was making a major contribution around the house and was very attentive to her. Then I found a love-letter she had written to some guy she met online and had known for a couple years. I confirmed that there was no real life relationship with this guy and she pretty much just went to him emotionally because I wasn't there for her. She agreed to cease all communication with the guy, she followed through and we went from there. 

I fell back into my habits. Now she wants us to split up. She has this idea that we can live in a duplex, me downstairs and her upstairs and share the house with the kids so it will still be a house where we both live with the kids. But there would be no relationship and we would/could be dating other people. 

She has some mental problems and is in treatment. Things have been relatively good with us lately, hard, but good. We have been having allot of sex and I have been trying somewhat to be attentive to her. She is affectionate. But she also has this thing with the casino. She likes to go out driving for hours at night and hanging out in the casino. She goes by herself, and I can confirm that she is not seeing anyone when she is out. 

She says that is how she clears her mind. Not by talking to me or anyone but by being by herself and just driving or walking around the casino. 

Sunday we had great sex and were feeling very close to each other. I did something stupid and tried to log into her email to check up on her mon morning, but couldn't because I forgot the password. I told her about this and it angered her that I don't trust her. She gave me the password before she had a chance to log in and I checked her email and it was completely innocent. 

Monday she was out till 5am, from 10pm till 5am. She said she would be back at 1:00am or she would call. Our phone service went out at midnight. So she could not call. I was still mad but didn't really make a big fuss over it. I was trying to give her her space. She went out again tues night and was back by 11:30pm. She went out again last night and didn't come home until 3:30am. I had called her at 12:30am and asked if she would be home soon and she said a half hour or so. 

I fell asleep and woke up at 3:30am when she finally got home. 
I did not touch her but I accused her of cheating on me and broke some stuff in the kitchen. 

This morning she says it is the last straw that she is done trying to make it work between us. I cannot even wrap my head around the idea of us not being together. I am almost 40 years old and feel way to old to start all over again with someone new and try to start a family. 

I told her she is in a bad place emotionally, these are rough times for us financially etc. and that the feeling of wanting to split up will pass. She vehemently rejected that opinion, saying we have been trying for years and just can't make it work. 

I was able to talk her into giving it till the end of February to try and work things out. She agreed to try, but would not commit to anything. She said that even if I am squared away and being right with her and myself that she is not sure it will work. She seems to both really want it to work and to really not want it to work. She looked me into the eye tonight and asked me why I want to try so hard when all it will result in is a lifetime of her walking all over me. 

She really does not think things will work out and is not sure she wants them to. 

Yet she is still affectionate, still hugs and kisses me goodbye. She says she feels nothing for me but I can feel affection in her hug and in her kiss. Yet as she hugs and kisses me she says it doesn't mean anything she just needs someone to hug and kiss. 

Being a person who firmly believes that if there is a will there is a way, I am thinking we can pull it off. I have to make this work. 

Please....any suggestions or advice, I really need it right now.


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## pinkprincess (Jun 10, 2008)

Commited1 said:


> The main faults I have are that I do not clean up after myself, tend to throw my jacket wherever it lands when I come home, same with shoes etc. and do not make enough of a contribution in the house (cooking, cleaning etc.).
> 
> More problems are that when we get close we tend to do things that push each other away.
> 
> ...



This may sound harsh but it sounds like your wife wants the best of both worlds... 

I say this because she says to you that she wants to seperate and you both live in seperate area's for the house "for the kids" then you guys have great sex a few days later, then she goes back to dissapearing off for hours to the "casino" leaving you at home with the kids, then on sunday you guys have great sex???
It is ok with you that she turns to another man and has an emotional affair, and then doent touch or speak to you for a month??? that is not normal adult behaviour...

if she wants to be in this marriage she needs to wake up and realise she has a wonderful man who is willing to forgive and forget and make an effort for the marriage sake..

maybe its time you sat down and reallly thouhought about what it is YOU need and want as she really is playing you along


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

Pink, wow, no I need to hear the blunt truth as people see it. Really, I think back to being teary eyed and looking her in the eye and holding her hand as she gave birth to our kids. I think of family and it makes me willing to go through anything to make things work. 

The living in separate areas of the house thing came up when I told her that she is free to go get an apartment and live on her own and I'll keep the kids. She insisted that no, she would keep the kids. 

The big disagreement we have right now is that it is not a family if the mom and dad are not in a relationship. To me, the love of the parents for each other is the foundation of the family. She thinks as long as the mom and dad get along and are friends, they don't have to sleep in the same bed or have any kind of romantic relationship for it to be a family. 

I don't know what to do. I just want her to love me back and to commit without condition to work things out no matter what. I can't force her to do that so the only other option, if this doesn't work, is to find someone else. I desperately need a good woman in my life, loyalty, commitment, security. I am devastated by her looking me in the eye and saying she is done, that her and I can't have a romantic relationship because we have tried so many times and we always end up hurt. Flabbergasted and sad.....now she is at the casino with her mom, rocked off her butt and probably won't be home until 4:00am or so. 

I don't know what to do, I really just want to be a good husband and a good dad to this family.


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## jessiko555 (Dec 2, 2010)

From the beginning of your story, I can relate entirely. Although she is also at fault, you are also at fault. making empty promises and falling back into the same behavior creates a seed of distrust, no matter what. You make the promise to change too many times, and, (me speaking), I wish I could trust that it will be true this time, but I wait with bated breath to see when you are going to get lazy again.

Sounds like your wife has given up (I have similar behavior now, going out late), and really, there's probably nothing you can do. The damage has been done.

After all, a man(or woman) is only as good as his word.

As for the house thing, I think it's a REALLY bad idea to live together as it would prevent you from healing, and also from the potential of starting anew and the opportunity to appreciate someone else having learnt from your past mistakes, and to have a person appreciate and love you back.

You're never too old to find love! Haven't you seen that recent movie, "Letters to Juliet"?


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

jessiko555 said:


> From the beginning of your story, I can relate entirely. Although she is also at fault, you are also at fault. making empty promises and falling back into the same behavior creates a seed of distrust, no matter what. You make the promise to change too many times, and, (me speaking), I wish I could trust that it will be true this time, but I wait with bated breath to see when you are going to get lazy again.
> 
> Sounds like your wife has given up (I have similar behavior now, going out late), and really, there's probably nothing you can do. The damage has been done.
> 
> ...


Well she did give me till the end of February and if I consistently hold my end of things there is a chance things will work out. I dunno. 

I've kept my word on literally everything else. I took her in seven years ago when she was pregnant with another mans child (happened while we were broken up for a year), committed to raising the child as my own, started a family with her (the child doesn't even know I am not his biological dad, legally I am, I signed the papers), we took in her old and ailing grandmother who did nothing but complain and cause problems- I did it without hesitation, family is family right? 

Since you seem to be coming from the same place as my girl, can I ask if leaving a mess, even if it is all the time, is worth obliterating a family and 6 lives over? I'll never be the same, none of our kids will ever be the same and to say those kids even have anything close to the kind of life that kids in whole families have is, in my opinion, wrong. Kids blame themselves and always will, even as adults. 

If she was a slob and I had to clean up after her, I would. The only things I would not tolerate would be physical abuse of me or the kids and cheating on me. 

It just seems so incredibly drastic. Like home and family are ones only sanctuary in a harsh and cruel world, and it seems not even thinkable that family should break up over anything less than the things I stated above. 

Being partially at fault, makes me feel I have some kind of influence over what happens at least. Like if I fix what I am doing and it stays fixed, things will work out. 

Me and her have been on and off for 11 years now, close to 12. The first five of those years we broke up about once a year. She always came back. I never tried to get her back, she would just show up on my porch or call me out of the blue. I feel like she is just getting that need to fly bug again but the problem is now there are children who desperately need a stable family in order to develop into healthy and happy adults. I can't see putting them through this. If she left she would be back again. She has done it her whole adult life. She leaves me and then gets with some idiot who more than a slob, is often a drunk or drug addict who beats her. Then she realizes what she lost and she comes back. 

No more. Not this time. Now way!!!

I will do my best to live up to my end of things as promised and I will. If that is not good enough for her, she can go take a walk and not come back. I told her if shes not happy and has to leave then to leave. She will have full access to the kids any time she wants and I won't ask a dome of her. That's not good enough. I'll take her to court for custody and win and start all over again before I'll watch her split us up only for us to get back together again after she tries some other guy out and finds he is 100x worse than me. She goes shes gone for good. I'll win custody and find a good woman to replace her as female role model. I know there are a ton of good women with kids who have had bad husbands just as I have had bad luck with my wife.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

She already has FOUR SMALL CHILDREN to clean up after!! Why in the hell would you leave your crap around like a child and expect her to clean up after you? Grow up. She's not your mother. She expressed her displeasure at this little "habit" of yours, and it did absolutely no good at all. You continue to do what you want to do, when you want to do it. And NOW you wonder why she's doing the same? She's not been a great wife, but you've been no prize either. Real nice minimizing there about coming home and neglecting her. How long did that go on for? Then she finally has enough to leave, but manages to get herself in a bad way (pg by another man) and comes running back. And there's good old you, willing to take her back, raise the child as your own, as well as take in her ailing grandmother! Makes you a real prince, right? 
Now you're making threats to take her kids away. See..thing is..I can't figure out if you want to dump her and go find someone else and have even MORE kids or if you want to dump her and take these. I've read both in your posts. The LAST thing you need is more kids. I'd get a vasectomy if I were you. 
You BOTH need to grow the hell up. You've got 4 kids depending on you to make ADULT decisions and to do the right thing by them. Neither one of you seem capable of doing that. You're some kind of man-baby and I don't know what the hell her problem is. All I know is she's got 4 little kids with all the chaos and pandemonium that brings and a man-baby to take care of. I'd probably run to the casino too. Glad to see she's in therapy though. 
You BOTH need to get into some kind of counseling. You have all these kids depending on you both to do the right thing. She has a mental illness (you didn't specify which, but she's going to need ongoing support with that..you up to the job?) and I'll bet she's OVERwhelmed with it all. I'm not saying what she's doing is right..it's not...but you both have to get some help and get on board with doing what is right for these kids. You're doing all this posturing about letting her leave, your taking the kids and being generous with the time you're going to allow them to see her, blahblahblah. Not a mature attitude there. 
Get some help. Yesterday. You both could benefit from some parenting classes and you both need therapy. IC and MC.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

While I don't really agree with what she's doing in terms of going out and staying out half the night, and the other guy, I also see several problems with things you've said. One of which being that you throw things down wherever you feel like. 

With kids, she has enough to do, without her husband adding to it. I don't really blame her for being frustrated by that, and if you're messy enough, I can see why she'd want to leave over it. If there's not much that you do for her besides sex, being a single parent would be easier. 

And as for your theory that it's not a family unless both mom and dad are in a relationship...that's the biggest crock I've ever heard. I happen to be a divorced mother, and your implication that my sons and I are not a family, or are a family that is inferior to yours, is one of the most offensive things I've ever read. You and your wife may no longer be family to each other, or to each other's families, if you divorce, but you are still family to your kids. 

Lastly, you're going to "find a good woman to replace her as a female role model." She is their mother, good or bad; you can NEVER replace her. They will always love their mother, even if she's not the greatest. If she's really that horrible a person, they'll figure it out. But if you keep holding up some other woman as perfection and degrading their mother, they'll simply dig in their heels and defend their mother more, because she is their mother. Just as I'm sure they'd do if she tried to find another man to replace you. 

Quite frankly, it sounds like maybe both of you have some unrealistic expectations of what marriage should be like. It sounds like you both want to have things your way. Now, yes some of her way is unreasonable: she can't expect to be able to get involved with other men and have you waiting for her, for example. Although...according to your other post, you flirted with anonymous women online, so...how does that make you any better really? But you're not really being reasonable either: you say that if she were a slob you'd clean up after her because you love her, but you've never had to clean up after her and a bunch of little kids either; try it and you might change your tune. Not to mention that by your own admission, you don't even clean up after yourself; you leave stuff lying around for her to clean up. 

You both need to grow up, you both need to accept your share of the blame for the situation being as it is. You can try some marriage counseling and see if it works. But if she's really reached the point where she doesn't think it'll work anymore, there may not be anything you can do.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

How old are you???

Grown, mature men should be able to at least put their dirty clothes in a hamper or in the laundry room. She already has four kids to clean up after. Why do you make it harder?

And you've already broken up four times??? You two just aren't meant to be together.

Has there been any meaningful attempt at marriage counseling? If you two are going to stay together until February, spend the next two months in marriage counseling.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

major misfit said:


> She already has FOUR SMALL CHILDREN to clean up after!! Why in the hell would you leave your crap around like a child and expect her to clean up after you? Grow up. She's not your mother. She expressed her displeasure at this little "habit" of yours, and it did absolutely no good at all. You continue to do what you want to do, when you want to do it. And NOW you wonder why she's doing the same? She's not been a great wife, but you've been no prize either. Real nice minimizing there about coming home and neglecting her. How long did that go on for? Then she finally has enough to leave, but manages to get herself in a bad way (pg by another man) and comes running back. And there's good old you, willing to take her back, raise the child as your own, as well as take in her ailing grandmother! Makes you a real prince, right?
> Now you're making threats to take her kids away. See..thing is..I can't figure out if you want to dump her and go find someone else and have even MORE kids or if you want to dump her and take these. I've read both in your posts. The LAST thing you need is more kids. I'd get a vasectomy if I were you.
> You BOTH need to grow the hell up. You've got 4 kids depending on you to make ADULT decisions and to do the right thing by them. Neither one of you seem capable of doing that. You're some kind of man-baby and I don't know what the hell her problem is. All I know is she's got 4 little kids with all the chaos and pandemonium that brings and a man-baby to take care of. I'd probably run to the casino too. Glad to see she's in therapy though.
> You BOTH need to get into some kind of counseling. You have all these kids depending on you both to do the right thing. She has a mental illness (you didn't specify which, but she's going to need ongoing support with that..you up to the job?) and I'll bet she's OVERwhelmed with it all. I'm not saying what she's doing is right..it's not...but you both have to get some help and get on board with doing what is right for these kids. You're doing all this posturing about letting her leave, your taking the kids and being generous with the time you're going to allow them to see her, blahblahblah. Not a mature attitude there.
> Get some help. Yesterday. You both could benefit from some parenting classes and you both need therapy. IC and MC.


Thanks for the stern words, that is really needed sometimes. What you are saying is closest to reality. I am committing to not being a man-boy because this latest episode was a huge wake up call. She won't commit to anything. I am definitely a person who needs reality and attitude checks. It is so important right now for me to focus on what is best for the kids, and really some battle between us is not best, so it is best I don't see her as an adversary even though right now that is easier than seeing her as a partner. 

Her specific disorder is border line personality disorder, the rest of her family is bi polar. 

I am going to do my best to find out about counseling for the both of us and will try to talk her into it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Committed,

If you keep this up, you will have to be committed.

You do realize that whatever you fix, she doesn't have to.

Let her fix her stuff.

To begin understanding your stuff, I'd refer you to this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

There are many who can answer your questions about it. Let me reiterate, what you're involved in (now) is "Head Above Water Happiness"

It does not last.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

Is your wife a diagnosed borderline? Is she on any meds? You said she's in therapy, is it with someone who specializes in BPD? Is she getting DBT? Not being nosey here...but I understand totally what you're up against. My 24yo daugther is a diagnosed borderline. She's not currently seeing a therapist, though I believe she's taking her meds. Who knows? 

NOW, more than ever you've got to get your stuff straight for those kids. These kids are likely going to need counseling as well because they have ONE parent who is BPD. They're going to need help coping. It's going to be very hard for her to parent those children. 

I gotta give you props for taking the heat without going ballistic. You're in for a long haul..whether you remain with her or not. You're going to have to let the consequences be hers, and you focus on providing those kid with as stable a home life as you can. Don't be in any hurry to provide them with a "good role model". You can be role model enough. They have enough to deal with having a sick mother without trying to accept daddy's new lady friend. You helped make these children (most of them) and it's up to you to make the necessary sacrifices to ensure they come out of this emotionally healthy. 

I'm not saying you can NEVER have another relationship (if you choose to leave your wife permanently), but you're certainly going to have to put that on the back burner for a long time until your children are able to cope with it. That will take a long time.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

major misfit said:


> Is your wife a diagnosed borderline? Is she on any meds? You said she's in therapy, is it with someone who specializes in BPD?


 She is on meds, mood stabilizers and xanex. They help her A LOT. She has only been in therapy the past few months. I don't know if the therapist specializes in bpd.




> Is she getting DBT?


 I don't know what that is, sorry.



> Not being nosey here...but I understand totally what you're up against. My 24yo daugther is a diagnosed borderline. She's not currently seeing a therapist, though I believe she's taking her meds. Who knows?


No worries about being nosey, I am putting it all out here and want honest answers and questions. Thanks for that. I hope you daughter is doing well. 



> NOW, more than ever you've got to get your stuff straight for those kids. These kids are likely going to need counseling as well because they have ONE parent who is BPD. They're going to need help coping. It's going to be very hard for her to parent those children.


 That is something new to me. I know plenty of women with a bunch of kids and other than a little stress they seem to do fine. But her...she is often quite a mess. 



> I gotta give you props for taking the heat without going ballistic.


Thanks, I don't get upset taking heat when I know I have it coming. I need that kind of blunt reality check. 



> You're in for a long haul..whether you remain with her or not. You're going to have to let the consequences be hers, and you focus on providing those kid with as stable a home life as you can.


I can handle that. When I grew up (other than being a slob) I realized that the single greatest thing any person can accomplish is being a good parent. Not just adequate, but good. 



> Don't be in any hurry to provide them with a "good role model". You can be role model enough. They have enough to deal with having a sick mother without trying to accept daddy's new lady friend. You helped make these children (most of them) and it's up to you to make the necessary sacrifices to ensure they come out of this emotionally healthy.
> 
> I'm not saying you can NEVER have another relationship (if you choose to leave your wife permanently), but you're certainly going to have to put that on the back burner for a long time until your children are able to cope with it. That will take a long time.


That is the hard part. I grew up the only biological child of both parents in a family of 8. 4 kids from dads previous marriage, 1 from moms previous marriage. Then they had me. My mom became their mom for all intents and purposes. There had been some issues over the years with that but all of my brothers and sisters are seriously well adapted, stable, and successful people. So it is very normal, pretty much natural, to believe that if it does not work out (despite my best efforts) with the kids biological mom that another woman will become my mate and will take over the primary role of mother. The kids would have 2 moms then. One that was there for them and one that went out randomly till 5 o'clock in the morning. 

I could be totally wrong about that, but you can understand why this is where I am coming from. I need input where this is concerned. I believe strongly in a cohesive family unit and it seems right that a mother is included in that and that neither parent exists as a kind of satellite, cycling around at certain times but always on the fringes. Again, it is inconceivable to me that her and I not be together with each other as mother and father of our family. It is also inconceivable to me that a family can exist in such a fractured way without the kids minds also being fractured. 

Feed back is appreciated. I don't mean to offend anyone, these are more beliefs based on my experiences and unless I have solid rational reason to alter my views, I stick with what I know to be real.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

Commited1 said:


> That is the hard part. I grew up the only biological child of both parents in a family of 8. 4 kids from dads previous marriage, 1 from moms previous marriage. Then they had me. My mom became their mom for all intents and purposes. There had been some issues over the years with that but all of my brothers and sisters are seriously well adapted, stable, and successful people. So it is very normal, pretty much natural, to believe that if it does not work out (despite my best efforts) with the kids biological mom that another woman will become my mate and will take over the primary role of mother. The kids would have 2 moms then. One that was there for them and one that went out randomly till 5 o'clock in the morning.
> 
> I could be totally wrong about that, but you can understand why this is where I am coming from. I need input where this is concerned. I believe strongly in a cohesive family unit and it seems right that a mother is included in that and that neither parent exists as a kind of satellite, cycling around at certain times but always on the fringes. Again, it is inconceivable to me that her and I not be together with each other as mother and father of our family. It is also inconceivable to me that a family can exist in such a fractured way without the kids minds also being fractured.
> 
> Feed back is appreciated. I don't mean to offend anyone, these are more beliefs based on my experiences and unless I have solid rational reason to alter my views, I stick with what I know to be real.


Parents are not like cars. You can't just buy a new one, swap over all your CDs and seat covers and start driving the new one when the old one breaks down. Whatever happened in your family that allowed your mother to simply step in and take over those children's bio mother's role happened in your family; it's not generally the norm. 

You also need to be very careful in expressing your views that it is natural to expect that another woman will take over the role of mother. If you divorce, that could hurt you seriously. When my ex and I divorced, if he had expressed a view like that, I would have informed the judge and used that to try to limit his custody out of fear of completely losing my children. Now, granted, I don't have any illnesses that could/would interfere in my parenting, but still...the idea that some other woman would step in and take over my rightful role...that would piss me off and make me feel that you were trying to take away my right to be their mother, and if a judge agrees, you could have serious problems. 

While a single parent household is not ideal, there are plenty of people who grow up in them and turn our to be perfectly healthy, stable, and successful. And frankly, depending on the parent who's gone, they're better off in that single parent household than in a home with mom and dad. And with 4 kids, I gotta be really honest here...4 kids, a job, a house, you're going to have a hard time even finding time to date, much less form a real relationship. And with them having a mother with a major illness like that, they're really going to need you to focus on them.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Sounds like she is keeping her options open and looking for a good runway to land on, then she'll give you the boot. And by going out all night, she's trolling for guys that will give her a better deal, and mom is helping her. Then she tells you what you want to hear and says she will try until Feb. She will do NOTHING (except go out to party and get stoned while on meds) until February, then she can say "Well, I tried, but it didn't work-see 'ya."

Wake up, bud. She's been looking for a better deal for longer than you think.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

atruckersgirl said:


> Parents are not like cars. You can't just buy a new one, swap over all your CDs and seat covers and start driving the new one when the old one breaks down. Whatever happened in your family that allowed your mother to simply step in and take over those children's bio mother's role happened in your family; it's not generally the norm.
> 
> You also need to be very careful in expressing your views that it is natural to expect that another woman will take over the role of mother. If you divorce, that could hurt you seriously. When my ex and I divorced, if he had expressed a view like that, I would have informed the judge and used that to try to limit his custody out of fear of completely losing my children. Now, granted, I don't have any illnesses that could/would interfere in my parenting, but still...the idea that some other woman would step in and take over my rightful role...that would piss me off and make me feel that you were trying to take away my right to be their mother, and if a judge agrees, you could have serious problems.
> 
> While a single parent household is not ideal, there are plenty of people who grow up in them and turn our to be perfectly healthy, stable, and successful. And frankly, depending on the parent who's gone, they're better off in that single parent household than in a home with mom and dad. And with 4 kids, I gotta be really honest here...4 kids, a job, a house, you're going to have a hard time even finding time to date, much less form a real relationship. And with them having a mother with a major illness like that, they're really going to need you to focus on them.


Thanks. It is not as simple as that in my mind and to really wrap my head around it all requires some growth on my part which is difficult. I am doing it, but it is hard. I said that about my family not because I think it is normal but because that being where I come from, my head is set up to think like that. 

I do have a very solid and stable support network, my mother, sisters etc. Work is incredibly flexible with me concerning these kinds of things. 

She said today that she does not have bpd but instead she has anxiety and depression. I told her that I know she said she was diagnosed with bpd and she said, "Why, so you can use that against me to get the kids".... ugh.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

F-102 said:


> Sounds like she is keeping her options open and looking for a good runway to land on, then she'll give you the boot. And by going out all night, she's trolling for guys that will give her a better deal, and mom is helping her. Then she tells you what you want to hear and says she will try until Feb. She will do NOTHING (except go out to party and get stoned while on meds) until February, then she can say "Well, I tried, but it didn't work-see 'ya."
> 
> Wake up, bud. She's been looking for a better deal for longer than you think.


The partying was not a regular consistent thing. In fact, since I have known her she has only gone out to party twice, and they were both a few days ago a few days apart from each other. In fact, she almost never goes out. Ever. Only recently and it started an hour or two out, the last couple times it was all night as I said. I encouraged her to go out at first because she never goes out. 

I know her well enough to know she is not trolling for other guys. I work for a pi and part of my job is infidelity cases, so I have all the tools to confirm or disprove any suspicion. I can confirm she is not trolling.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I have to agree with everyone who said, you acted pretty awful toward her for a long time, and she has probably given up and cannot see you any differently than she has always seen you. You behaved like a child, being careless of your stuff, etc., and now your desperate need to stay married now just seems like more child-like neediness. 

Best bet? Quit acting like a child in any way. Take full responsibility for making sure the household runs smoothly--do things when you see they need to be done, join her if she's still working and you aren't sure what else needs to be done, or ask her what chore you can do while she is finishing up her chore--but learn quickly what needs to be done so you aren't always asking, and don't say "what can I do to help?" but say, "What chore can I do while you finish that?" Then, quit any pleading or clingy behavior. Plan an outing and tell her, "I'm taking you out tonight. We're going. . . and XXX will be coming to stay with the kids at X p.m." Be cheeful and independent when she's busy, take the kids out on your own--get them ready, tell her to relax while you have the kids and the two of you can tackle chores when you get back. Plan a way to keep kids busy or engaged while you do chores--anyone old enough to walk can be part of the process (this makes the chore harder at first, but pays off in the long run as kids learn to be part of the household by contributing their efforts to chores). Imagine your wife and you as co-managers in your home, and act accordingly. 

I was your wife at one time. I don't know if my suggestions will work, but I know that *I* at least was incredibly irritated by my then-h being so desperate and clingy after having ignored all the efforts I had made at improving our relationship for years before I finally gave up and disconnected. Good luck.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

sisters359 said:


> I have to agree with everyone who said, you acted pretty awful toward her for a long time, and she has probably given up and cannot see you any differently than she has always seen you. You behaved like a child, being careless of your stuff, etc., and now your desperate need to stay married now just seems like more child-like neediness.
> 
> Best bet? Quit acting like a child in any way. Take full responsibility for making sure the household runs smoothly--do things when you see they need to be done, join her if she's still working and you aren't sure what else needs to be done, or ask her what chore you can do while she is finishing up her chore--but learn quickly what needs to be done so you aren't always asking, and don't say "what can I do to help?" but say, "What chore can I do while you finish that?" Then, quit any pleading or clingy behavior. Plan an outing and tell her, "I'm taking you out tonight. We're going. . . and XXX will be coming to stay with the kids at X p.m." Be cheeful and independent when she's busy, take the kids out on your own--get them ready, tell her to relax while you have the kids and the two of you can tackle chores when you get back. Plan a way to keep kids busy or engaged while you do chores--anyone old enough to walk can be part of the process (this makes the chore harder at first, but pays off in the long run as kids learn to be part of the household by contributing their efforts to chores). Imagine your wife and you as co-managers in your home, and act accordingly.
> 
> I was your wife at one time. I don't know if my suggestions will work, but I know that *I* at least was incredibly irritated by my then-h being so desperate and clingy after having ignored all the efforts I had made at improving our relationship for years before I finally gave up and disconnected. Good luck.


Sisters....wow do I have so much to say after the last couple days. This forum is a godsend. Your post above here is incredibly helpful to me, especially at this very moment. 

I am catching her at the moment of disconnect you are talking about. Really digging into myself in a non-obsessive way to find some real answers. My problem right now is that I am TRYING, I am actually living up to my word (a whole few days) and am still getting a little bit of rejection. My god the anger in my heart is voracious and I am having a really hard time accepting emotionally that this is going to be a rough transition from where we were to where we both have finally agreed to be...together and strong as a family, husband and wife.


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## Commited1 (Nov 13, 2009)

This is a long post but I am really desperate for someone to read what I am saying, to hear me. I honestly have no one to turn to and am dealing with all of this with absolutely no emotional support from anyone in rl. 

I am in a self-discovery and action phase. If I accomplish nothing in my life but growing a strong family (wife included!!!) I will be able to die some day in the far future a natural death, a very contented old man. 

I screwed this up. She is not perfect, but we all have our flaws. She tried for years to be close to me, to just spend time with me and be interested in what I am interested in. I took it all for granted. You have no idea. I blew her off a lot. Gave her very little attention other than sex. I was a massive pig and more often than not slept till 2 in the after noon (I work at 3pm), effectively abandoning her as a parent to raise the kids alone. 

While I was doing this it seemed justified. Always in the moment. Like my duty was to spend time with the kids on the weekend, go to work and not cheat on her. I have never cheated on her, though we both have had our online mistakes, hers was emotional mine was (cringe) sexual. Hers was forming these emotional bonds with one or two guys and getting from them the attention I was not giving her...mine was cyber sex with anonymous women, I never got to know any of them, but there were a lot of them. I know my sins and I feel terrible about them. 

So now she was just about ready to give up. My first post in this thread was from a place I was in emotionally that seemed entirely justified to me. Somehow I managed to nearly totally neglect her emotionally and really fail as a domestic partner and yet also expect her to play the good wife and not take an interest in any other man, and not complain. 

I talked her into those few months to give me another chance. She agreed as I said but seemed doubtful. I have been getting up really early and doing everything I can to help before work, watching the kids, washing the dishes and the floor and the walls etc etc I have been giving her all the attention I have to give, all the time I have to give. 

I have agreed to go to therapy myself. I have an anger problem. I never hit her or abused the kids but the walls in my house are full of patched holes. I get mad at something and go way over board. My anger totally consumes me and I want to flush everything down the toilet when I get mad. I get into this state of mind sometimes where everything is bad and I look for everything to be bad. Like "f" this, I can't take it anymore, f everything. 

I am trying to teach myself to choose to feel a different way as a reaction to things that happen. Like to slow down my feelings and thoughts with some deep breaths and then think through what I really want and how a particular emotional reaction is going to either get me what I want or not. I am noticing that the more I choose to react emotionally (inside myself, not a show) the easier it is to do so. There is a rule that had always worked well for me but I broke it too many times along the way and that is to have a sense of self-defined honor, be up-front with others about it and to not behave outside the bounds of that honor as a reaction to what someone else is doing. I am really getting back into that but god its hard.

She is seeing this and is seeing the improvements but it has only been a few days now. God bless her, she holds me tight and long with her cheek tight against my chest and doesn't let go for minutes straight. She is subtly hinting about marriage again, seems happier, and agrees that we can be the one for each other if we both try. Its not like everything is all better all the sudden. Sometimes she does not even want to look at me and a kiss goodbye is like kissing a mannequin. But I understand why. 

We agreed that for these three months there will be no sex between us. I strongly stated that I do not want her to give me too much in the way of accommodating me or my wants or desires or she will risk me feeling like everything is good now and I can fall away from what we are trying to accomplish, back to old routines. 

The last three days have actually been great. Spending all our time together, watching movies, talking, eating small private meals together after I come home from work and the kids are in bed, and playing her internet chat-game site together. So hard to stay focused when things feel good, funny how pain is such a motivation to do the right thing. 

So tonight I hit a roadblock. We planned out a nice relaxed night together. We would be online together on her game-chat site and play some cards and do some other stuff. She was real affectionate tonight. We had some drinks together. She flashed me a couple times, teasing..."what do you think of this bra? Let me try on this other one and tell me what you think *changes right me front of me*....." then..."I am going to take a shower, my hair is growing back in and its itchy, I need to shave again" *unzips and pulls down the front of her pant a bit to show me*.....digging through my front pocket for a lighter she grabs something else and squeezes..."oh this is not a lighter".....the kinds of fun flirty stuff we do when things seem good. I really thought we were going to have sex but she decided it would be best for her to shower alone and I decided it would be best to really not try to have sex with her. 

Anyways, after some fun looking through christmas gifts we got for people and some we may still get, we both log onto this game site she goes to. There is this dude she says is a friend (purely online) and after a conversation about it she admited that he shows her some male attention and she shows him some female attention. Not sexual, just what has been lacking from me. 

So there we are playing this online card game together and she starts telling me all about the conversation she is having with this guy about his relationship with his girlfriend. The issues they are having and stuff....he is messaging her over the yahoo instant message thing. I could tell she wasn't really paying attention to the game we were playing together and I told her to tell him to go away because she is here playing a game with me. She types something or other to him which apparently upsets him enough to get off the messenger. She said she didn't tell him to go away, it was something she said about him needing to focus on his woman. 

I got pretty upset and felt my emotions spiraling out of control and before I said or did something counter-productive, I quickly excused myself from the room and went downstairs to cool off for a minute. She followed me down to refill her coffee and I really wish she hadn't because I couldn't resist telling her that the f'n guy has her online pretty much all day while I am at work and that he can at least leave her alone while I am here trying to spend time with her and give her some attention from ME. OMG was I mad. 

We go back upstairs together and are both a bit irritated with one another. She says she wishes everyone would stop bothering her with their problems so she could just relax and play her game and I get pretty mad at that but by now have myself pretty well contained. I was thinking she spent all that time talking to that fn guy (she was including me in the conversation via a play by play she was giving) and now that it was my turn to talk she just wanted left alone. 

In reality, I think, she was irritated with me because I got snappy and mad at her being on the messenger with the guy (the play by play) rather than me being the sole center of her attention. 

Now I am realizing that it is going to take some time and some hurt to get her away from what she knows is a reliable source of attention and to give and receive attention just from me when I have been so unreliable with that before. I am thinking that when I got mad I damaged a little bit of the budding trust she is having in me to not wig out and distance myself from her any time we get close. Things will be ok tomorrow, this is a step. She needs weened away from him. She is willing to do that by including me on everything he says "lets talk to him together, I'll give u the play by play of what we are saying to each other" and taking input from me about it. 

Thats like chewing on barbed wire for me, but I will do it. Because I know the next step is him not even messaging her. Whatever thing they had between each other is going away because she is getting attention from her man now on a consistent and real basis and there is some tension between them over that and as a result some tension in her. 

She is trying to move in the right direction, is connecting with me in an honest way on every level, and I can't punish that by being a jealous kid. I gotta reward it by making sure her day tomorrow is as good as I can make it, by letting her know (through actions) just how important she is to me. I am not letting myself sabotage this, not this time. NOT THIS TIME!!!

I am going to tell her that there is a movie I really wanna watch with her tomorrow (still gotta order fireproof, I hear its good.) no computers, just us. Hopefully she goes for it. I just gotta accept that just because we had a good today and are getting closer, it doesn't mean she is going to totally drop the things that have brought her some relief from the neglect and pain I have inflicted on her over the past so many years. 

sorry for the super long post but I had to write this all out and I really am hoping for some feedback to see if anyone else thinks I am handling this right at this point. 

Things are fixing to work out as long as I am up to the challenge.


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