# Partner history



## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

My wife and I have been together since she was 19 and I was 22. We met and fell in love and haven’t looked back until now. 

Recently I have been very bothered, hurt, obsessed and mean about her sexual life before me. I’m very mixed up and have conflicting feelings. She never hid anything from me and has been very open about everything, I don’t feel like she is lying and knowing her friends I have never had any reason to believe otherwise. Her total partners before me is 3, all boyfriends no ons or hookups outside of those three no oral ever. 
Her first relationship ended because the boy moved out of state. She stated seeing someone about a year later as a junior in high school. They separated when he went to college. Her next relationship was at the beginning of her first year in college. He was older by 5 years and ended when she found out he was engaged to be married. 

Does this sound like a typical partner count for a 19year old? Is this a history that most people would accept. My partner count is higher so that is not it. 
Thanks


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

If you have had more partners I am not sure why this concerns you so much.
Three boyfriends and no casual sex seems better than many these days, so why have you started worrying now? How long have you been married?


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Fuchsfox said:


> My wife and I have been together since she was 19 and I was 22. We met and fell in love and haven’t looked back until now.
> 
> Recently I have been very bothered, hurt, obsessed and mean about her sexual life before me. I’m very mixed up and have conflicting feelings. She never hid anything from me and has been very open about everything, I don’t feel like she is lying and knowing her friends I have never had any reason to believe otherwise. Her total partners before me is 3, all boyfriends no ons or hookups outside of those three no oral ever.
> Her first relationship ended because the boy moved out of state. She stated seeing someone about a year later as a junior in high school. They separated when he went to college. Her next relationship was at the beginning of her first year in college. He was older by 5 years and ended when she found out he was engaged to be married.
> ...


Why do you care who she slept with before. My husband doesn't know my number, and I don't know his. Who cares? What changes? You're with her now. Did something happen to prompt this feeling in you?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

You're experiencing retroactive jealousy. People who have never experienced it cannot relate to it. Many of them do not even acknowledge that it exists. Read up on it. It's bad stuff. 

As to your question, who knows what "normal" is? There are many happily married women with many more partners. Sex has become a recreational activity for a lot of people. It doesn't carry the same emotional attachment for some as it does for others. 

Why is the coming up now? How old are you now?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

GC1234 said:


> Why do you care who she slept with before. My husband doesn't know my number, and I don't know his. Who cares? What changes? You're with her now. Did something happen to prompt this feeling in you?


I do think its important that we are honest about something so important, but in this case she was completely honest about it so it seems odd that it's now become an issue for him.
Had she lied and he had since found out I could understand it more.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

How long have you been together? And did it ever bother you before, or when you first got together?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Fuchsfox said:


> My wife and I have been together since she was 19 and I was 22. We met and fell in love and haven’t looked back until now.
> 
> Recently I have been very bothered, hurt, obsessed and mean about her sexual life before me. I’m very mixed up and have conflicting feelings. She never hid anything from me and has been very open about everything, I don’t feel like she is lying and knowing her friends I have never had any reason to believe otherwise. Her total partners before me is 3, all boyfriends no ons or hookups outside of those three no oral ever.
> Her first relationship ended because the boy moved out of state. She stated seeing someone about a year later as a junior in high school. They separated when he went to college. Her next relationship was at the beginning of her first year in college. He was older by 5 years and ended when she found out he was engaged to be married.
> ...


There is nothing shocking about her past. She was in three relationships and had sex, which is something humans do. You've slept with more people than she has... should she start being a ***** about your past and dragging it up?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I do think its important that we are honest about something so important, but in this case she was completely honest about it *so it seems odd that it's now become an issue for him*.
> Had she lied and he had since found out I could understand it more.


Are you genuinely surprised? I'm not.

And no one has to lie.

My advice to all women everywhere is to simply state that you don't discuss it. Ever.

It's none of anybody's business. And then if he wants to walk, let him.

The oversharing in our generation_ is not_ producing the intimacy that's been promised.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Fuchsfox said:


> Does this sound like a typical partner count for a 19year old? Is this a history that most people would accept. My partner count is higher so that is not it.
> Thanks


Yes.

This is 110% your problem to fix. Your wife has done nothing shocking, wrong, or out of the ordinary. Nor has she lied to your or tried to hide the truth. Do not drag her into this. Do not make her feel responsible or dirty for any of it.

And please, find some help before you ruin your marriage and your life. Retroactive jealousy is the devil.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

This is indeed your problem, not hers.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

How about a little more background information? How old are you now, how long have you been married, any kids and what is your cultural and religious background?

And also of relevance, what is the current state of your relationship now? Are you having any other marital issues now? Are you having issues in your sex life? 

Why is this bothering you NOW?


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

We have been together now for almost 20 years and while I understand that her count of 4 (including me) lifetime partners is considered the median I have a hard time with it.


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## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Why do you care who she slept with before. My husband doesn't know my number, and I don't know his. Who cares? What changes? You're with her now. Did something happen to prompt this feeling in you?


He cares.


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## Yoni (Feb 7, 2021)

I understand where your feelings coming from how many she slept with someone else that really bugging you. I was there if I know my husband past its upset me. But truth is she chooses you over all. And everyone has a past something you couldn't change.... it's all about mentally things. Try not to think too much and try let it go her past. And when feeling come up and open yourself and talk to partner how you feel about it.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> I do think its important that we are honest about something so important, but in this case she was completely honest about it so it seems odd that it's now become an issue for him.
> Had she lied and he had since found out I could understand it more.


@Diana7 I love you, but I have to disagree here. The past is the past, what right does he have to know about it? Actually, I think she was quite courteous to have revealed her past, I certainly would NOT have done so.


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

This is the only issue we have in our relationship and it has torn us apart for the past 2 years.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Trustless Marriage said:


> He cares.


I'm asking why.


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## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

minimalME said:


> Are you genuinely surprised? I'm not.
> 
> And no one has to lie.
> 
> ...


Some men would like to know whether they are going to marry someone conservative or someone with more hookups than an escort of 14 years. Just be honest. Yes you have every right to decline. If that happens he already has his answer.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Fuchsfox said:


> This is the only issue we have in our relationship and it has torn us apart for the past 2 years.


A normal partner count, that is less than yours, shouldn't be tearing you apart after 20 years together. Get some therapy. 

Or just let this destroy your marriage. Your choice.


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

I guess I care because I don’t want her to have been seen as a bad girl. I don’t want to be married to someone who was seen as a bad girl. 
As to why this is bubbling up now I don’t have an answer


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

minimalME said:


> The oversharing in our generation_ is not_ producing the intimacy that's been promised.


Oh, this is a GREAT observation!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> I guess I care because I don’t want her to have been seen as a bad girl. I don’t want to be married to someone who was seen as a bad girl.
> As to why this is bubbling up now I don’t have an answer


Then why did you marry her to begin with, knowing this?


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I think the catch is that if a woman refuses to reveal her sexual history, the assumption is that she has at least in the past been very promiscuous. It's best to be open and honest and then if the other person has a problem with it like OP then you probably should not have started a long-term relationship with her. Now that you are here, would consider individual counseling because this is entirely a you issue.

I would want to know with any potential partner how many previous partners they had because it relates slightly to risk of stds.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> We have been together now for almost 20 years and while I understand that her count of 4 (including me) lifetime partners is considered the median I have a hard time with it.


How many partners have YOU had?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Fuchsfox said:


> Recently I have been very bothered, hurt, obsessed and mean about her sexual life before me.


This is actually a serious problem. Some people here may pooh-pooh it and blow it off because we simply live in a more sexually open society now than in times past. 

It may be his problem but if he is becoming obsessed with it and treating her badly because of it, then it has crossed over into pathological area that is causing harm to both of them. This isn't ok. 

This is not about her and whether her behavior was appropriate or not........ because his response and his behavior is clearly NOT appropriate or even healthy. 

This isn't something where we can say, "it's ok for a 19 year to have 3 BFs" and he says, ok, and then goes on about his business happily ever after. 

He has some kind of actual dysfunction and maladaption going on here that may require some kind of professional intervention. 

The devil is in the details however regarding a variety of things including cultural and religious background, their current ages and state of their relationship etc etc.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> My wife and I have been together since she was 19 and I was 22. We met and fell in love and haven’t looked back until now.
> 
> Recently I have been very bothered, hurt, obsessed and mean about her sexual life before me. I’m very mixed up and have conflicting feelings. She never hid anything from me and has been very open about everything, I don’t feel like she is lying and knowing her friends I have never had any reason to believe otherwise. Her total partners before me is 3, all boyfriends no ons or hookups outside of those three no oral ever.
> Her first relationship ended because the boy moved out of state. She stated seeing someone about a year later as a junior in high school. They separated when he went to college. Her next relationship was at the beginning of her first year in college. He was older by 5 years and ended when she found out he was engaged to be married.
> ...


You need to stop blaming her for your insecurities and focus on why you are threatened by her past experiences. Her number is totally irrelevant and shaming your wife is totally unjust.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Fuchsfox said:


> This is the only issue we have in our relationship and it has torn us apart for the past 2 years.


That’s insane, brother. Two years over stuff from two decades ago? You’re going to wreck it and she’ll be doing someone else for the next two decades.


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## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

Fuchsfox said:


> My wife and I have been together since she was 19 and I was 22. We met and fell in love and haven’t looked back until now.
> 
> Recently I have been very bothered, hurt, obsessed and mean about her sexual life before me. I’m very mixed up and have conflicting feelings. She never hid anything from me and has been very open about everything, I don’t feel like she is lying and knowing her friends I have never had any reason to believe otherwise. Her total partners before me is 3, all boyfriends no ons or hookups outside of those three no oral ever.
> Her first relationship ended because the boy moved out of state. She stated seeing someone about a year later as a junior in high school. They separated when he went to college. Her next relationship was at the beginning of her first year in college. He was older by 5 years and ended when she found out he was engaged to be married.
> ...


My wife told me 5 when I met her. Then after we were married it went to roughly 18 with several ons and hookups all on a slip up while talking about our past. If she is telling the truth let it go. Her count at 19 is very believable however.

I know how you feel though brother. What you need to do is find something just between you and her in the bedroom that is special and only you two have shared or will share. Whether it's positions, toys, roleplay or whatever you might be into, let it be you and hers little special thing that she never has shared with any one else but you. I think that will help to allow the past to be the past and the future be just you and her.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Trustless Marriage said:


> Some men would like to know whether they are going to marry someone conservative or someone with more hookups than an escort of 14 years. Just be honest. *Yes you have every right to decline. If that happens he already has his answer.*


Yes, but that is NOT what is going on here - he KNEW and it didn't bother him until now.

As to what I bolded...you are WRONG. When I start dating again, I want to keep my partner count private because it's LOW.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Trustless Marriage said:


> Some men would like to know whether they are going to marry someone conservative or someone with more hookups than an escort of 14 years. Just be honest. Yes you have every right to decline. If that happens he already has his answer.


If a man is upfront and honest about what _he's_ looking for, then a woman can provide an honest response without lying.

I can say, 'I'm not the right person for you.' Or I can say even less, and still be honest.

What a man thinks isn't my problem - or the problem of any woman. It's not for me to manage his thoughts.

My responsibility is to be true to myself.

And as an aside, the majority of men have absolutely no problem lying to get laid. It's not a moral dilemma for them in the least. So, spare me.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Trustless Marriage said:


> If that happens he already has his answer.


No, that's not true. You can decline to answer on principle!?


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Yes, but that is NOT what is going on here - he KNEW and it didn't bother him until now.
> 
> As to what I bolded...you are WRONG. When I start dating again, I want to keep my partner count private because it's LOW.


Exactly!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Fuchsfox said:


> I guess I care because I don’t want her to have been seen as a bad girl. I don’t want to be married to someone who was seen as a bad girl.
> As to why this is bubbling up now I don’t have an answer


I understand that caring about this is not a rational choice, and perhaps not something that you can just get over. Find some professional help or lose your marriage. Your choice.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Fuchsfox said:


> This is the only issue we have in our relationship and it has torn us apart for the past 2 years.


Whether she is or is not a "bad girl" is irrelevant at this point. 

The fact that this is becoming obsessive highly problematic for you and the fact is causing you to be "mean" to her and is tearing up your relationship means that you need to seek professional help for this. 

This is beyond the scope of strangers on the internet. This is a serious cancer growing on your sanity and your marriage and you need to seek professional assessment and treatment.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Fuchsfox said:


> I guess I care because I don’t want her to have been seen as a bad girl. I don’t want to be married to someone who was seen as a bad girl.
> As to why this is bubbling up now I don’t have an answer


Why do you care what other people think? Forget them and live your life with your wife. My husband is like that too, it's annoying.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

minimalME said:


> If a man is upfront and honest about what _he's_ looking for, then a woman can provide an honest response without lying.
> 
> I can say, 'I'm not the right person for you.' Or I can say even less, and still be honest.
> 
> ...


I wish there was a "Love" button for this post!!!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Fuchsfox said:


> I guess I care because I don’t want her to have been seen as a bad girl. I don’t want to be married to someone who was seen as a bad girl.
> As to why this is bubbling up now I don’t have an answer


Seem by whom? You? You already know the truth. Is she out crowing to the world her sexual partner count? Are you? Who is going to even know this information, much less judge her on it?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> This is the only issue we have in our relationship and it has torn us apart for the past 2 years.


You are actually lucky that she has indulged your insecurities about it for that long.
I would absolutely NOT tolerate such a double standard from a man who says he loves me and who I have been faithful and loving towards for 20 years.

You need to get help from a professional to deal with this before you won't have to worry about it anymore, because you've lost everything with her.


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## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

Even mentioning any of this to her is totally unfair. This is somethng to have considered at the beginning of the relationship. That's when we choose to forget the past and move forward.........or not. Choosing to dwell on this is likely to cause issues for the two of you and it will be your fault for making it an issue at this point, not her fault for a past you previously accepted and she cannot change.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Let's just say that if I were your wife, having had to endure this for 2 years, access to my vagina would be via court order only. It is not reasonable for a spouse to have to put up with this.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

minimalME said:


> Are you genuinely surprised? I'm not.
> 
> And no one has to lie.
> 
> ...


When it comes to marriage I don't believe in hiding anything. Especially something that involves such intimacy. 
If what people did was ok with them then why not just be open? Be honest?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Fuchsfox said:


> I guess I care because I don’t want her to have been seen as a bad girl. I don’t want to be married to someone who was seen as a bad girl.
> As to why this is bubbling up now I don’t have an answer


I don't want to play Jr Shrink here because I believe you need to see an actual professional, but is your actual thought process here that YOU see her as a bad girl? 

And follow up question to that is if you do somehow see her as a bad girl, do you then somehow see yourself as somehow less-than or that you are somehow a lesser man that you weren't able to get a more virtuous woman? (Note: I'm not saying she isn't virtuous. I'm asking if you see her as less than virtuous and therefor you see yourself as somehow less than)


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Fuchsfox said:


> I guess I care because I don’t want her to have been seen as a bad girl. I don’t want to be married to someone who was seen as a bad girl.
> As to why this is bubbling up now I don’t have an answer


Yet you were a 'bad boy', if that's how you want to put it. 
If being a virgin was so important then why did you yourself have lots of partners? Why did you marry someone who has already had sex? Why did you add the partner numbers to the girls you had sex with for their future husband's? 
Seems totally hypocritical.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

minimalME said:


> And as an aside, the majority of men have absolutely no problem lying to get laid. It's not a moral dilemma for them in the least. So, spare me.


Accurate!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

How long have you been married?


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

Come on now OP. Read your first post again and ask yourself......" Am I really being rational here?". Is this th hill you want your marriage to die on?


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Yet you were a 'bad boy', if that's how you want to put it.
> If being a virgin was so important then why did you yourself have lots of partners? Why did you marry someone who has already had sex?


I knew a guy. Biggest womanizer you can ever meet. He said he wanted to marry a virgin! LOL. I told him he didn't deserve a virgin with how he acted his whole life.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

3 guys by her young age would have concerned me if i was 20, as i was looking for my one and only and refrained from sex till 23. But 3 and you are higher in count than her. My wife married at 16 and divorced at 26. I know of 2 ons she had after her seperation from ex. Im #4 for last 24 yrs. Only issue i would have is if any of past ex sex partners are still on the scene. SO better not ever introduce me to ex and say this was old friend of mine. I do not think if one is in a relationship they should maintain any kind of relationship with past partner, unless you have child together. Past is past...close the door....done!


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> When it comes to marriage I don't believe in hiding anything. Especially something that involves such intimacy.
> If what people did was ok with them then why not just be open? Be honest?


As I already said (twice), there's no dishonesty involved.

Read the first post again. She _was_ open.

Women have bought into the lie that they can be promiscuous like men and that there will be no social consequences. _That_ is the deceit that our daughters are being raised with.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> How long have you been married?


He said 20 years.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Tested_by_stress said:


> Come on now OP. Read your first post again and ask yourself......" Am I really being rational here?". Is this th hill you want your marriage to die on?


The problem is, there is NO rationality when it comes to emotions and insecurities. They are almost instinctual, which is why he will probably not be able to manage this without actual therapy.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> When it comes to marriage I don't believe in hiding anything. Especially something that involves such intimacy.
> If what people did was ok with them then why not just be open? Be honest?


The OP's wife was honest. Yet here we are. 

Now to be fair, I believe there is some kind of pathological process taking place with the OP. 

I think even if she were a virgin bride on their wedding night, he would still be having this break down. Instead of worrying about her previous 3 lovers, he would be having an issue with did she want to have 3 lovers before marriage. Or was she checking out the quaterback's butt when she was in school, or did she get wet when she held Jimmy's hand during the moonlight skate at the skating rink when she was in 7th grade. 

This is a dysfunction and maladaptive event that is taking place here and if someone is going to have some kind of retroactive jealousy attack, there is always plenty of fodder and ammunition for it, even if no penises entered into any vaginas.


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

Hi, there was no dishonesty about this issue. She was always open and has been good to me from day one.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

minimalME said:


> Women have bought into the lie that they can be promiscous like men and that there will be no social consequences. _That_ is the deceit that our daughters are being raised with.


This is a separate issue worthy of it's own discussion in a separate thread. 

The way I am interpreting the OP's posts is that this was NOT an issue for roughly 18 years. I'm not getting that he had an issue with her past when they met and initially got together nor for 18 years of marriage. 

That doesn't paint the picture of some playa' or womanizer that insists on a virgin bride. 

Something has happened within the OP in the last couple years that has caused him to go off the rails.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> The problem is, there is NO rationality when it comes to emotions and insecurities. They are almost instinctual, which is why he will probably not be able to manage this without actual therapy.


Agreed.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Yet you were a 'bad boy', if that's how you want to put it.
> If being a virgin was so important then why did you yourself have lots of partners? Why did you marry someone who has already had sex? Why did you add the partner numbers to the girls you had sex with for their future husband's?
> Seems totally hypocritical.


The posts are coming fast and furious in thread, but go back and reread all of the OP's posts. 

He has never said he wanted a virgin bride. He has made clear that she was open and honest about her past. He has never said that he had any issue with her past when they met, were dating or even for roughly 18 years of marriage. 

He explicitly said this has been an issue for the past TWO years of a 20 year marriage. 

I am not interpreting this as a womanizer that insists on only marrying a virgin. I'm not seeing this as hypocrisy if the first 18 years of their relationship was fine and he didn't have an issue with her past. 

I am seeing this as something pathological and dysfunctional that has come up within the OP himself. 

I do not see this as any kind of moral issue or any kind of sexual politics issue. 

THIS IS A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE and the OP needs professional assessment.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> Hi, there was no dishonesty about this issue. She was always open and has been good to me from day one.


Even though I believe that you need professional help in order to sort out and manage your feelings, you need to add more details and answer the questions posed to you if you want more input from other posters...your answers are too cryptic for anyone to understand your situation.

If you have been living with this in your own mind for the past two years, you may have incorrectly concluded that what you are feeling is justified and that it's within your rights to question your wife and judge her past in this hypocritical way.
I doubt you are going to get any support for THAT here.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> The OP's wife was honest. Yet here we are.
> 
> Now to be fair, I believe there is some kind of pathological process taking place with the OP.
> 
> ...


@oldshirt has it right. I can tell he has read some of the materials available on RJ. 

Unfortunately, RJ is like fibromyalgia in that other people don't believe the condition even exists, unless they're the one who has it. "Just get over it" responses are somewhat cruel and disrespectful. 

I struggle with RJ. A friend has helped me tremendously with it, but she has not been available much lately, and if RJ is not beaten back, it creeps back in. There are ways to educate yourself to help control the pain. It's a long process for many people.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

I suspect there are problems in OP's marriage, and he is looking for ways to sabotage and make her look like the bad guy. He's mad/frustrated/unfulfilled with the relationship and he's trying to find ways to blame her.

OP - I would recommend telling us what the real problems in your marriage are. If you are really hung up on her number of 3 before you after 20 years of marriage - you need some serious therapy.

And my opinion - 3 previous partners at age 19 with no ONS and only long term relationships sounds actually very normal to me.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Fuchsfox said:


> I guess I care because I don’t want her to have been seen as a bad girl. I don’t want to be married to someone who was seen as a bad girl.


It seems like you're the only one who - retroactively - sees her as a bad girl. I think there is something seriously wrong with your perspective, so I suggest therapy, or you'll have to divorce her if you can't get over this nonsense.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Tex X said:


> I suspect there are problems in OP's marriage, and he is looking for ways to sabotage and make her look like the bad guy. He's mad/frustrated/unfulfilled with the relationship and he's trying to find ways to blame her.


Not even close


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Something has happened within the OP in the last couple years that has caused him to go off the rails.


Yes - of course.

He's not getting his way about _something_, and he's taking that out on her by shaming her with information she shared in good faith.

She believed the lie that her sexual freedom was equivalent to his, and that it wasn't an issue (and never would be), which is the point of each one of my posts.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Tex X said:


> I suspect there are problems in OP's marriage, and he is looking for ways to sabotage and make her look like the bad guy. He's mad/frustrated/unfulfilled with the relationship and he's trying to find ways to blame her.
> 
> OP - I would recommend telling us what the real problems in your marriage are. If you are really hung up on her number of 3 before you after 20 years of marriage - you need some serious therapy.


Your first paragraph could be a possibility but it could possibly be from something else in the marriage that is causing an insecurity attack, (ie a dead bedroom, some kind of infidelity or inappropriate conversations on social media etc) or it could be something seemingly unrelated to their marriage at all. 

It could be some kind of existential event like a job loss or illness or something happening with a child or illness or death in the family,,,, something that has made him question the very foundation of his life. 

As some other posters have already mentioned, it's probably not going to make any rational sense to the rest of us. But it's still a significant and potentially damaging event for the OP. 

I do wish he would be more open and descriptive with what is taking place here rather than being so cryptic.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Fuchsfox said:


> Hi, there was no dishonesty about this issue. She was always open and has been good to me from day one.


I feel for your situation. I've been there, and still go there from time to time. 

Quick background story. My wife and I have been together for almost 34 years and married for 31. When we met I was 16 and she was almost 19. I had prior girlfriends, but she was the first I had actual intercourse with, after dating about 6 months BTW. She had been with two guys before me. A short fling was her first and she was with the other guy for almost 2 years. They were engaged and lived together right after high school. The broke up about 6 months after moving in. I had to deal with some of it because we met only a few months after they broke up and he was still trying to stick around. Eventually she told him they could have no more contact, she was moving on. It has been all me and her since then.

I've always struggled to deal with this, her past history. Honestly I have less of hard time with the sex than the fact that she was truly in love with someone before me. Even after all this time it sometimes bothers me. But it is my problem, not hers. She did nothing wrong. She was living her life before I ever knew she existed and a few sexual partners is nothing out of the ordinary. It seems like the situation is very similar with you and your wife. 

When I start feel the jealousy, which is what it is, I remind myself that we were both people before we met. Everything that happened to her before committing to me set her on the path that brought us together and I should be thankful for it all. It resulted in 30+ years of a wonderful marriage and a couple great kids. My best advice for you is to think of it the same way. She is the woman you love today, in part, because of everything she has experienced since she met you and before she met you. Would you really want her to be a different person?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

minimalME said:


> Yes - of course.
> 
> He's not getting his way about _something_, and he's taking that out on her by shaming her with information she shared in good faith.
> 
> She belleved the lie that her sexual freedom was equivalent to his, and that it wasn't an issue (and never would be), which is the point of each one of my posts.


That's possible. 

But as I said above, this may be rooted in something completely different and seemingly having nothing to do with her previous sex life. 

As I said before, a discussion about whether female vs male sexual freedom is a societal lie and recipe for future problems would make for a great conceptual discussion in a separate thread ,,,,, but it may or may not be germane to this situation. 

I think at the moment it's more pertinent to find out why this has become such a big ssue for him 20 years later.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I think at the moment it's more pertinent to find out why this has become such a big ssue for him 20 years later.


From what I've seen, Retroactive Jealousy, like many types of insecurity that humans experience, can be similar to a physical "tick" that people develop in response to stress and difficulties in their lives. For many people, the SEEDS of such insecurities are always present, they just need the right conditions to "sprout" and grow into something that cannot be killed or controlled using anything that only cuts it off at the surface -- it's DEEP and the roots can be impossible to kill.

It is also very similar in function to what anorexics struggle with - DYSMORPHIA. It's where your mind believes something is real, so that is how your perception is filtered. So trying to change the faulty perception is futile and will never work - you must dig deeper and change the filter in your mind. 

The difficulties and insidiousness of how the mind works with this type of toxic jealousy CANNOT be managed without professional help, anymore than most anorexics can "cure" themselves of the Body Dysmorphic Disorder that drives their behavior alone.

The struggle is real, irrational, deep-seeded, and in need of professional help.


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## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> Yes, but that is NOT what is going on here - he KNEW and it didn't bother him until now.
> 
> As to what I bolded...you are WRONG. When I start dating again, I want to keep my partner count private because it's LOW.


I was replying about the post that said it was none of his business. Yes it is but I agree if you don't want it to be, he can walk away. 

I respectfully disagree. I would guess the majority of the women who say it's none of your business are those who have been around the block many times - unlike you.


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## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> No, that's not true. You can decline to answer on principle!?


Perhaps (and applauded) but unlikely. If you really like the guy and are comfortable with your number, you are going to tell him before he goes walking off into the sunset.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Trustless Marriage said:


> I was replying about the post that said it was none of his business. Yes it is but I agree if you don't want it to be, he can walk away.
> 
> I respectfully disagree. I would guess the majority of the women who say it's none of your business are those who have been around the block many times - unlike you.


I understand what you mean, but I would say that most PEOPLE who say it's none of your business, say so because they feel private about that and don't want to be judged, no matter how many partners they've been with.


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## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> @Diana7 I love you, but I have to disagree here. The past is the past, what right does he have to know about it? Actually, I think she was quite courteous to have revealed her past, I certainly would NOT have done so.


He has every right. Just like you have the right to know if you are marrying a bum on the street who already has two other wives. He want's to know who he is marrying and it's important to HIM to know that she hasn't slept around if that is who he is looking for. What is the confusion here?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Don't be swallowed like scrambled eggs.

Gobble, gobble, gulp.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Trustless Marriage said:


> He has every right. Just like you have the right to know if you are marrying a bum on the street who already has two other wives. He want's to know who he is marrying and it's important to HIM to know that she hasn't slept around if that is who he is looking for. What is the confusion here?


While I generally agree, I don't think he has a right to know her sexual history. However, he can ask, and if she is unwilling to share, and if cannot accept her unwillingness, he can make an informed decision to move along.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Trustless Marriage said:


> He has every right. Just like you have the right to know if you are marrying a bum on the street who already has two other wives. He want's to know who he is marrying and it's important to HIM to know that she hasn't slept around if that is who he is looking for. What is the confusion here?


But he knew how many she had been with at the time they were getting together. According to him, it has only been an issue the last couple years of a 20 year marriage. By his admission she has treated him well since the beginning.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> My wife and I have been together since she was 19 and I was 22. We met and fell in love and haven’t looked back until now.
> 
> Recently I have been very bothered, hurt, obsessed and mean about her sexual life before me. I’m very mixed up and have conflicting feelings. She never hid anything from me and has been very open about everything, I don’t feel like she is lying and knowing her friends I have never had any reason to believe otherwise. Her total partners before me is 3, all boyfriends no ons or hookups outside of those three no oral ever.
> Her first relationship ended because the boy moved out of state. She stated seeing someone about a year later as a junior in high school. They separated when he went to college. Her next relationship was at the beginning of her first year in college. He was older by 5 years and ended when she found out he was engaged to be married.
> ...


No offense but you have problems if this is what you're worried about. They were all boyfriends and only three to boot. There are people that suffer from retroactive jealousy whose partners have quite the sordid past compared to yours.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> But he knew how many she had been with at the time they were getting together. According to him, it has only been an issue the last couple years of a 20 year marriage. By his admission she has treated him well since the beginning.


You are struggling trying to understand why this issue is rearing its ugly head after all this time. He is doing the same.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Trustless Marriage said:


> He has every right. Just like you have the right to know if you are marrying a bum on the street who already has two other wives. He want's to know who he is marrying and it's important to HIM to know that she hasn't slept around if that is who he is looking for. What is the confusion here?


And I disagree that people have a right to know specifics of anyone elses sex life that took place before they get together. 

You have the right to prefer to get with a virgin or a low-count person or even a high count person or a polyamorous person etc etc depending on your own preferences. 

But I do not believe anyone is entitled to the specific details of other people's private lives. People have the right to their own privacy. 

If you and I were to meet and go on dates etc, you would have the right to tell me that you are looking for someone that had been with no or very few previous partners or only within the context of serious, committed relationships etc etc You have the right to say that you require a potential mate to have been with at least 200 other people previously for that matter. 

Ethically I would be obligated to inform you that I do not meet your criteria. 

However you do not have the right to ask me how many people I have been with or what kind of activities I have indulged in behind closed doors, nor am I obligated to disclose that private information. 

If I say i do not discuss specific numbers, you have the right to draw your own conclusions and walk away. 

People have the right to state what their preferences and their criteria are. But they don't have the right to knowledge of what has gone on in other people's private life before them. 

A virgin is not obligated to disclose his/her number any more than the town player or the town *****. (and yes, virgins and low-count people can be judged just as harshly) All are entitled to their own privacy.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Fuchsfox said:


> I guess I care because I don’t want her to have been seen as a bad girl. I don’t want to be married to someone who was seen as a bad girl.
> As to why this is bubbling up now I don’t have an answer


Quit lying to us and yourself Dawg. What you're have trouble with is the the thought of her enjoying sex, better orgasms, et cetera, with her previous lovers than with you. Face it my man. If you absolutely and unequivocally knew you were the by far the best, and were the only one that ever made her toes curl, you wouldn't have a problem. No sir, you don't have a problem where she on the bell curve. You have a problem where you are on the bell curve. Youre afraid your in the median range.
But hey, as long as you know you're the irrational and crazy one between the two of you, there's hope. My advise, and I can't say this strongly enough, stop the " it has torn us apart for the past 2 years" shyt and stop it now. You obviously don't have a clue how your lack of confidence and bellyaching makes you look in her eyes. With the trouble you have now with a couple or three guys being there before you, you'd show nuff be a basket case if she ditched you azz and you had to deal with other women out there that's had more peckers than a chicken farm.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sfort said:


> You are struggling trying to understand why this issue is rearing its ugly head after all this time. He is doing the same.


Yes he is. IMHO he should seek professional guidance for that issue. 

The reason I am am trying to understand why this is issue is rearing it's ugly now is just my own morbid curiosity LOL


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Yes he is. IMHO he should seek professional guidance for that issue.
> 
> The reason I am am trying to understand why this is issue is rearing it's ugly now is just my own morbid curiosity LOL


But it's the right question. The problem is that there are not many trained professionals who understand or know how to counsel on retroactive jealousy. The closest type of counselor may be one who deals with obsessive-compulsive disorder, but frankly, I don't totally get the connection between the two. Of the people I know suffering from it, RJ is the only OCD trait they're exhibiting.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Well OP, something happened to have triggered these intrusive and compulsive thoughts. Did anything come up recently? Twenty years is a long time ago, so what's going on that you aren't telling us?


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## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> But he knew how many she had been with at the time they were getting together. According to him, it has only been an issue the last couple years of a 20 year marriage. By his admission she has treated him well since the beginning.


Yes agreed - I was just replying in general. She was honest up front (to his knowledge) but again I thought my wife was honest too and it turned out she wasn't even close.


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

Benbutton said:


> Well OP, something happened to have triggered these intrusive and compulsive thoughts. Did anything come up recently? Twenty years is a long time ago, so what's going on that you aren't telling us?


The biggest change in our relationship was our third baby, a girl. Not sure if that has anything to do with it or not but I’d say that’s been the biggest change


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> The biggest change in our relationship was our third baby, a girl. Not sure if that has anything to do with it or not but I’d say that’s been the biggest change


I sent you a PM. I don't know if you're interested in responding.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Fuchs,

Be glad she was and is honest with you, but it is common for men to feel jealousy or uneasiness years later.

I don't feel you are broken or need help.

Did your sex life change over time which triggered you to start questioning your Ws attraction to you?

Did something happen recently?

You can go back and track down the guy who was dating your W and had a fiance at the same time and inform his wife.


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## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> And I disagree that people have a right to know specifics of anyone elses sex life that took place before they get together.
> 
> You have the right to prefer to get with a virgin or a low-count person or even a high count person or a polyamorous person etc etc depending on your own preferences.
> 
> ...


It's a free country  - anyone has the right to ask anything they want and it is up to you to decide whether or not you are willing to answer. There are no clear and cut rules. The important thing here is just be honest if you are going to answer.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Trustless Marriage said:


> Perhaps (and applauded) but unlikely. If you really like the guy and are comfortable with your number, you are going to tell him before he goes walking off into the sunset.


I wouldn't. He could walk on. It's none of his business.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Trustless Marriage said:


> He has every right. Just like you have the right to know if you are marrying a bum on the street who already has two other wives. He want's to know who he is marrying and it's important to HIM to know that she hasn't slept around if that is who he is looking for. What is the confusion here?


That's what dating is for. To figure that ish out and to figure out if you're compatible. You can have a high number of past partners and STILL be a good person. Not sure what your point is. People can change, why should their past come back to haunt them?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Trustless Marriage said:


> Yes agreed - I was just replying in general. She was honest up front (to his knowledge) but again I thought my wife was honest too and it turned out she wasn't even close.


This thread is a perfect example of why people are remiss to disclose prior sexual activity (and a very valid reason IMHO) Nothing good can ever come from it. 

It is so common for people to have their prior sexual history held against them, it is probably best practice to not discuss numbers or prior activities.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Trustless Marriage said:


> It's a free country  - anyone has the right to ask anything they want and it is up to you to decide whether or not you are willing to answer. There are no clear and cut rules. The important thing here is just be honest if you are going to answer.


This may be a matter of semantics so let me rephrase - you're not entitled to know the details of one's private life before you came along. 

You may have the right to ask, but you are not entitled to an answer.


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> This may be a matter of semantics so let me rephrase - you're not entitled to know the details of one's private life before you came along.
> 
> You may have the right to ask, but you are not entitled to an answer


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

I have looked at statistics which say the median lifetime partners for a woman is 4.3, I have talked to several female friends about their number and numbers of there friends and my wife is still lower than all of them. But this has still managed to play a large role in our life recently. 
Is 3 previous partners low, sometimes when I say 3 it sounds understandable she was very forthcoming with all info but other times it takes the life right out of me.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> The biggest change in our relationship was our third baby, a girl. Not sure if that has anything to do with it or not but I’d say that’s been the biggest change


I want you to think about something here, and I'm not being sarcastic or accusatory or anything like that, I just want you to THINK about how you are feeling in this situation...

I, and a few other posters, have asked you specifically HOW MANY PARTNERS YOU have had (along with other questions)...yet, you have pointedly avoided answering us...WHY??

Is it possible that it's because YOU don't want to be held under the same scrutiny that you feel you are entitled to hold your wife to? Is it because YOU don't want to be judged based on that, the way you are judging your wife?

You are purposefully refusing to give us more details about YOU, possibly because you are clinging to the rationalization that this is all actually your wife's issue, and you don't want anyone to cast doubt on that, because maybe it's the only thing that makes you feel secure right now - holding on to your insecurity.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Fuchsfox said:


> We have been together now for almost 20 years and while I understand that her count of 4 (including me) lifetime partners is considered the median I have a hard time with it.


So again, why is this bothering you now?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Fuchsfox said:


> I have looked at statistics which say the median lifetime partners for a woman is 4.3, I have talked to several female friends about their number and numbers of there friends and my wife is still lower than all of them. But this has still managed to play a large role in our life recently.
> Is 3 previous partners low, sometimes when I say 3 it sounds understandable she was very forthcoming with all info but other times it takes the life right out of me.


The actual number really means nothing. 

It's the fact that this is troubling you so much and having such a negative impact on your life and your relationship that is the issue. 

This is why I and a number of the other posters think that you should seek professional assistance in addressing this.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> The actual number really means nothing.
> 
> It's the fact that this is troubling you so much and having such a negative impact on your life and your relationship that is the issue.
> 
> This is why I and a number of the other posters think that you should seek professional assistance in addressing this.


Enthusiastically, a damn good answer.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

GC1234 said:


> I knew a guy. Biggest womanizer you can ever meet. He said he wanted to marry a virgin! LOL. I told him he didn't deserve a virgin with how he acted his whole life.


Yes it's very hypocritical isn't it. If he did meet a virgin I doubt she would want him if he was truthful anyway.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> I have looked at statistics which say the median lifetime partners for a woman is 4.3, I have talked to several female friends about their number and numbers of there friends and my wife is still lower than all of them. But this has still managed to play a large role in our life recently.
> Is 3 previous partners low, sometimes when I say 3 it sounds understandable she was very forthcoming with all info but other times it takes the life right out of me.


And now you are right back to the beginning, as if you haven't heard anything anyone has posted to you...and again, with NO actual answers to anyone's questions.

You are refusing to get it. Which means you will continue to suffer with this.

What you refuse to understand is that NO answer is going to satisfy you or soothe you long-term -- even IF your wife had had 1 or 2 partners, you would still be struggling with that. Because the actual number being "median" IS NOT what is really bothering you.

You had better sort this out FOR REAL (with professional help), because just from your behavior and posts on this thread, it's obvious that you aren't touching the real issue for you AT ALL...and you are at risk of driving a wedge in your marriage that could ruin your wife's love and respect for you permanently.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Fuchsfox said:


> I have looked at statistics which say the median lifetime partners for a woman is 4.3, I have talked to several female friends about their number and numbers of there friends and my wife is still lower than all of them. But this has still managed to play a large role in our life recently.
> Is 3 previous partners low, sometimes when I say 3 it sounds understandable she was very forthcoming with all info but other times it takes the life right out of me.


I would encourage everyone to stop talking to you here until you start answering questions like how many partners have you had.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Beware being swallowed like scrambled eggs....


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## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> That's what dating is for. To figure that ish out and to figure out if you're compatible. You can have a high number of past partners and STILL be a good person. Not sure what your point is. People can change, why should their past come back to haunt them?


The point I am making is it's important to HIM. This topic is sensitive to me because of what my wife did to me. I had a long term relationship and that went bad after 8 years (she cheated on me). Didn't date much and so I knew whoever I found was in the same boat as me. I didn't want to be with someone who slept around - I didn't and that was important to ME. We went over our history when we met. Instead of telling me the truth or saying it's none of my business, she choose to lie (ashamed of her past and not wanting me to get away). So in essence, by lying, she ended up choosing who I was to marry - not me.

Sometimes other things trump whether or not you are a great person.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Fuchsfox said:


> The biggest change in our relationship was our third baby, a girl. Not sure if that has anything to do with it or not but I’d say that’s been the biggest change


This may be one of those existential factors that I mentioned previously. 

Is it possible that the birth of your daughter has caused you to reflect on your own attitudes and beliefs about women and sexuality. 

I think it is notable that you used the term "Bad Girl" in an earlier post. Have some of your own previous attitudes and beliefs towards women and how you have viewed and perhaps even treated women in your past caused you to have this crises with the birth of your daughter? 

I don't think this is all about you questioning your wife's virtue. It's obvious that this has more to do with YOU rather than what she did as a normal teenager that had a few boyfriends growing up. 

Is it possible that your own beliefs and attitudes and behaviors towards women and sexuality have been shaken with the birth of your daughter?


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

Hello, 

I’m not trying to ignore as questions. I guess the biggest one has been how many partners I’ve had and the number is 7. So I’m no saint and I’m willing to acknowledge that.
Are there any others that I have missed.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Trustless Marriage said:


> The point I am making is it's important to HIM. This topic is sensitive to me because of what my wife did to me. I had a long term relationship and that went bad after 8 years (she cheated on me). Didn't date much and so I knew whoever I found was in the same boat as me. I didn't want to be with someone who slept around - I didn't and that was important to ME. We went over our history when we met. Instead of telling me the truth or saying it's none of my business, she choose to lie (ashamed of her past and not wanting me to get away). So in essence, by lying, she ended up choosing who I was to marry - not me.
> 
> Sometimes other things trump whether or not you are a great person.


I think you are (understandably) being triggered by your wife's hurtful behavior, but that's not what is hurting the OP here -- he isn't worried that there could be more or that she lied, he is insecure and struggling with what he's always known about her previous boyfriends.

Your issue, and how it applies to other couples in relationships, etc, could be it's own topic (and probably is). What happened to you with your wife IS a hurtful betrayal, certainly...but what is happening with this OP is that HE is actually the one perpetrating a type of betrayal on his wife, by suddenly (after 20 years of a loving marriage) questioning her morality and condemning her for something that has always been acceptable.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

I find some of the perspectives interesting and alien here. 

The thought that I would want to be in a deep intimate relationship and purposefully keep significant details about my life hidden is pretty novel for me. My "number" is 1. This may discourage people that wouldn't be interested "training" someone that they see as basically a 40 year old virgin but that's about them and not me. I can't imagine being in a serious relationship and the other person not knowing something like this. Anything from "I was born on the evening of ____" to "I just wasted half an hour on TAM" is there for my SO to know. Maybe not on a first date but by the time we're Facebook Official for sure.

Someone's sexual history can affect their current relationship or at least can indicate how satisfied they will be. Spouses that have only been with their significant others are on average much happier in their marriage. Marriage satisfaction tends to go down with number of previous partners. Whether it is causation or correlation is basically irrelevant (IE whether the previous partners cause the dissatisfaction or the two things are caused by a third thing doesn't change the fact that happiness and satisfaction are harder to achieve and maintain.). Study Ironically, the effect seems to be more pronounced for men but we haven't seen near as many women worrying about it.

I doubt that I'd have much patience with judgments or comparisons based on sexual history. If I was intentionally made to feel less-than because of either of our histories, that would probably be the end of the relationship. If either of us was made to feel less-than unintentionally, I would expect a serious discussion. By the time you're married you should have decided to accept it for what it is / what they are.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> I would encourage everyone to stop talking to you here until you start answering questions like how many partners have you had.


I'm beginning to suspect that his actual notch count is not as important as his attitudes and behaviors towards women have been. 

For a man presumably in his 40s to even use the term "Bad Girls" is striking in this day and age. Does he ascribe to the good girl vs bad girl notion. Is his fixation on the median number of partners for a female telling??? 

Is he using that statistic as a moral yardstick to determine her worthiness as a wife and mother? If he is citing 4.3 as the median partner count and he knows he is #4. has he developed some kind of obsession over that 0.3? Did she have a make out session at a frat party he doesn't know about that would constitute 0.4 which would throw her into the bad girl catagory?

I'm beginning to smell a rat. But what kind of rat?

We may be dealing with someone on the spectrum here. 

Or we may be dealing with a nerdy 19 year old that just found out the little hottie in English class that he has been admiring from afar has had 3 BFs in the past and he's feeling dejected and defeated and hoping someone will tell him she's trash and not worth it. If so, he may be better off at one of the MGTOW or InCel sites. They'll be glad to tell him she's a tramp and not wife material.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Fuchsfox said:


> We have been together now for almost 20 years and while I understand that her count of 4 (including me) lifetime partners is considered the median I have a hard time with it.


Whyyy


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Fuchsfox said:


> I guess I care because I don’t want her to have been seen as a bad girl. I don’t want to be married to someone who was seen as a bad girl.
> As to why this is bubbling up now I don’t have an answer


Bad girl to who?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I'm beginning to smell a rat. But what kind of rat?
> 
> We may be dealing with someone on the spectrum here.
> 
> Or we may be dealing with a nerdy 19 year old that just found out the little hottie in English class that he has been admiring from afar has had 3 BFs in the past and he's feeling dejected and defeated and hoping someone will tell him she's trash and not worth it.


It's disappointing to see you veer off on this tangent. Your responses and questions have been very much on point for someone who has never experienced retroactive jealousy. 

RJ is very real and possibly impossible for someone who has never experienced it to understand it.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> Hello,
> 
> I’m not trying to ignore as questions. I guess the biggest one has been how many partners I’ve had and the number is 7. So I’m no saint and I’m willing to acknowledge that.
> Are there any others that I have missed.


Why would you think that 7 partners makes you "unsaintly"...??


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Sfort said:


> It's disappointing to see you veer off on this tangent. Your responses and questions have been very much on point for someone who has never experienced retroactive jealousy.
> 
> RJ is very real and possibly impossible for someone who has never experienced it to understand it.


But the OP seems to have some beliefs that aren't easily ascribed only to RJ...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Fuchsfox said:


> Are there any others that I have missed.


Yeah, there's been lots of pertinent questions. 

We would be able to address some of your questions better if we had some feedback on our questions and some relevant background for context.


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

Yes, I do fear my daughter dating and yes


Girl_power said:


> Whyyy


i don’t know why. I was hoping someone here could help. Is it silly to feel this way over three previous partners, from most of the answers here and most of the answers I’ve gotten from my life I’d have to say yes. But this has been a serious disruption in my life.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Your sabotaging your perfectly good relationship. Your crying over spilled milk which is incredibly dumb. Who cares what other people have done. You shouldn’t judge her based off of what others think and what’s others have done.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

ConanHub said:


> I would encourage everyone to stop talking to you here until you start answering questions like how many partners have you had.


We don't need to know that. @oldshirt gave the best answer. Seek a good, qualified therapist to help you work through this.

In fact @Fuchsfox , here is what you do. Get back with us on when your first scheduled appointment is. That's the info we need here.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Sfort said:


> But it's the right question. The problem is that there are not many trained professionals who understand or know how to counsel on retroactive jealousy. The closest type of counselor may be one who deals with obsessive-compulsive disorder, but frankly, I don't totally get the connection between the two. Of the people I know suffering from it, RJ is the only OCD trait they're exhibiting.


OCD is simply obsessive _and/or_ compulsive thoughts or behaviors that are negatively impacting the sufferer's life. So, it doesn't have to be compulsive hand-washing or turning the light switches off exactly three times each time you leave the room. Sometimes OCD is just obsessively worrying over something to the point that you're in a negative thought loop that's gotten unmanageable and is damaging your life or relationships. In the OP's case, he's obsessively focusing on his wife's past partner count to the point that he can't find peace, can't stop thinking about it, and is behaving badly towards his wife when she hasn't done anything wrong.

I'd say that RJ fits very nicely under the obsessive/compulsive category. Which is why it might be wise for the OP to find a therapist who has a great deal of experience successfully treating OCD.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> But the OP seems to have some beliefs that aren't easily ascribed only to RJ...


Not in my opinion. I don't think he firmly understands the issue yet.


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

Fuchsfox said:


> Yes, I do fear my daughter dating and yes
> 
> i don’t know why. I was hoping someone here could help. Is it silly to feel this way over three previous partners, from most of the answers here and most of the answers I’ve gotten from my life I’d have to say yes. But this has been a serious disruption in my life.


Sorry didn’t respond to the correct post


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sfort said:


> It's disappointing to see you veer off on this tangent. Your responses and questions have been very much on point for someone who has never experienced retroactive jealousy.
> 
> RJ is very real and possibly impossible for someone who has never experienced it to understand it.


Why do you think I have never experienced RJ? I have. And I have never questioned it's authenticity or it's impact. 

The reason I am veering off target is because the OP has never been on target.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I knew my wife had partners before me. Her ex came by one time when I was at her house. I took a look at him and was like hell no.

So I told him if he came over again and I was there I would smash his face in and leave a stain on the concrete. I guess she was ok with that message because he didn’t come back and I’m married to her.

I think when she told her mom about it (later) her mom went into an uncontrolled laughing fit, she was like “Yep.” I loved that lady.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Fuchsfox said:


> Yes, I do fear my daughter dating and yes
> 
> i don’t know why. I was hoping someone here could help. Is it silly to feel this way over three previous partners, from most of the answers here and most of the answers I’ve gotten from my life I’d have to say yes. But this has been a serious disruption in my life.


Your problem is what you think it means when women have multiple partners. This is all about perspective. I know men who would never want a virgin or someone inexperienced, then there are men like you. 

The issue is in your mind. And it’s about controlling people.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Fuchsfox said:


> Yes, I do fear my daughter dating and yes
> 
> i don’t know why. I was hoping someone here could help. Is it silly to feel this way over three previous partners, from most of the answers here and most of the answers I’ve gotten from my life I’d have to say yes. But this has been a serious disruption in my life.


How has it disrupted your life? Aren’t you busy enough with 3 kids?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Why do you think I have never experienced RJ? I have. And I have never questioned it's authenticity or it's impact.
> 
> The reason I am veering off target is because the OP has never been on target.


I'm not surprised. Your answers have been good. Your latest questions did not sound like they were from someone who has impacted by RJ. 

OP is struggling trying to find his center. I'd be willing to bet you and I have had a LONG time to deal with it. Most of the other posters here are skeptics and don't even acknowledge its existence. I'm not surprised he's struggling. He's here for help, and if there is anything I can do to help him, I will. A generous person has helped me, and if I've learned anything, I will try to pass it forward. However, doing it in a cacophony of doubters is distracting to him.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> Your problem is what you think it means when women have multiple partners. This is all about perspective. I know men who would never want a virgin or someone inexperienced, then there are men like you.
> 
> The issue is in your mind. And it’s about controlling people.


I don't think it's about controlling people. That is a feminist agenda concept. 

If I had to venture a wild guess at this point, I would say that it is the OP's own attitudes and beliefs towards women that he is calling into question and is haunting him. 

He has been very tight lipped about his past but the fact that he used the term "Bad Girls" and has mentioned this started with the birth of his daughter a couple years ago - The Force is leading me to wonder if he has had some unsavory attitudes towards women and sexuality and perhaps even had behaviors towards women in his past that he is not proud of and is concerned of his daughter encountering men with attitudes and behaviors like he had in his younger days. 

I think is really more about HIS sexual virtue and HIS morality, rather than about his wife's? Why he is projecting this onto her and questioning her virtue and why this is causing him to mistrust her is for the actual professionals to decipher. 

I think this is more about his own attitudes and behaviors than hers.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

OP, how is your wife coping with all this? I can imagine it must been so hard for her after 2 years of it.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Fuchsfox said:


> I guess I care because I don’t want her to have been seen as a bad girl. I don’t want to be married to someone who was seen as a bad girl.
> As to why this is bubbling up now I don’t have an answer


So first of all ANYONE who knew her THEN isn't going to remember one way or the other or say she had a bad reputation from back then. If she was screwing around NOW since she's been married for 20 years, YES that would give her a bad reputation, but that isn't the case here.

Second, having sex in committed relationships like SHE has done is in no way a "bad girl"
She didn't do one night stand, orgies, gang-bangs, etc., right? She had sex in the confines of a loving relationship, which is TONS better than what you see now a days.


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

Yes, this has been very difficult for her to live through.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I don't think it's about controlling people. That is a feminist agenda concept.
> 
> If I had to venture a wild guess at this point, I would say that it is the OP's own attitudes and beliefs towards women that he is calling into question and is haunting him.
> 
> ...


Does he miss trust her? He never really said that. He hasn’t said that that is the issue which I find interesting. That is why his issue is just his attitude towards women.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Fuchsfox said:


> Yes, this has been very difficult for her to live through.


Why? Please explain what you are doing to her?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> Yes, this has been very difficult for her to live through.


May I recommend the next conversation you have with her about this?

"Honey, I am not blaming you for anything you did before we met. You did what you did, and I did what I did. There was no betrayal on your part or my part. The problems we are experience are 100% on me. I realize it will be hard if not impossible for you to understand what I'm going through, but you are the not cause of my troubles. I am. What I need to do is work through some things. As I do so, I ask you to be patient and understanding. I hope I haven't done any permanent damage to our marriage. That was not my intent. If I have, I want to start repairing them right now."

Never ask her another question about her sexual life before you met her. Not even one detail. As someone who has recovered from RJ told me, when the mind movies start and when you start stressing over the things that have haunted you for the last two years, say to yourself, "GTFO"! That's "Get the F*** Out" of my mind.


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

Sfort said:


> May I recommend the next conversation you have with her about this?
> 
> "Honey, I am not blaming you for anything you did before we met. You did what you did, and I did what I did. There was no betrayal on your part or my part. The problems we are experience are 100% on me. I realize it will be hard if not impossible for you to understand what I'm going through, but you are the not cause of my troubles. I am. What I need to do is work through some things. As I do so, I ask you to be patient and understanding. I hope I haven't done any permanent damage to our marriage. That was not my intent. If I have, I want to start repairing them right now."
> 
> Never ask her another question about her sexual life before you met her. Not even one detail. As someone who has recovered from RJ told me, when the mind movies start and when you start stressing over the things that have haunted you for the last two years, say to yourself, "GTFO"! That's "Get the F*** Out" of my mind.


I think this may be the best way to handle the situation. You are correct it’s the mental movies that are disturbing. What’s even more ridiculous is that it’s the first handful of sex experiences, not worth a movie.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> I think this may be the best way to handle the situation. You are correct it’s the mental movies that are disturbing. What’s even more ridiculous is that it’s the first handful of sex experiences, not worth a movie.


Fantastic response. Please understand. This problem is you, not her. Let's find a way to make it better.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Fuchsfox said:


> Yes, this has been very difficult for her to live through.


What does she say about it? How does she think you should deal with it? 
You realise you may well loose her over it if you can't stop?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> Does he miss trust her? He never really said that. He hasn’t said that that is the issue which I find interesting. That is why his issue is just his attitude towards women.


He hasn't said a word about mistrusting her so I don't think that is at issue. In fact he clearly stated she has always treated him well. 

Which is one of the reasons I don't believe the root of this is really about her. 

The question I have is whether it is more about his attitude towards women or attitude about himself? 

This isn't rare when men have a little freak out when they have daughters. If their attitudes and behaviors towards women were, shall we say,,, less than savory, it can cause them to challenge their beliefs and attitudes and even guilt surrounding their own sexual attitudes and behaviors. 

If he has had an underlying attitude of Good Girls vs Bad Girls or some Madonna/***** tendencies, then the arrival of a daughter could have brought this all bubbling up to the surface. 

He can't really question his daughter's virtue or morality since she is just a baby, so since he has all these weird and maladaptive feelings swirling around in his head, for some messed up reason his wife has become the unwitting target. 

This is why I and several others think he needs professional assistance before it destroys his marriage.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Fuchsfox said:


> I have looked at statistics which say the median lifetime partners for a woman is 4.3, I have talked to several female friends about their number and numbers of there friends and my wife is still lower than all of them. But this has still managed to play a large role in our life recently.
> Is 3 previous partners low, sometimes when I say 3 it sounds understandable she was very forthcoming with all info but other times it takes the life right out of me.


I don't know how old your wife is, but I checked for a 40 year old:






Ages *40*-44: Among *women*, 22% had had 0-1 *partner*, 31% had had 2-4 *partners*, 30% had had 5-9 *partners*, 30% had had 5-9 *partners* and 19% had had 10+ *partners*. Among men, 14% had had 0-1 *partner*, 23% had had 2-4 *partners*, 24% had had 5-9 *partners*, and 39% had had 10+ *partners*

You wife is DEF on the low side. Good for her.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Fuchsfox said:


> Yes, this has been very difficult for her to live through.


if there has ever been an individual for looking to destroy an other beautiful marriage it has to be you...her number is not high by any stretch first of all and even if it was double that SO WHAT!!!!!!!!!!
I truly question your insecurity as a man, this is not about how she is viewed whether bad or good in the past tense or the present, it's about your in ability to appreciate the fact your wife had a life before you that involved carnal knowledge of opposite sex. I truly think you need psychological help because you are deeply disturbed...my god man you have been married these many years and this is bothering you now......get help and leave her alone she has done nothing but put up with your bantering for something she should not feel one ounce of guilt for. I promise you if you do not stop this insane thinking you will destroy your marriage and you will have no one to blame but yourself. Grow up


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Leave your wife out of this. Don’t treat her bad. Be a great husband to her. Understand this is your personal issue and not hers. She wouldn’t be suffering because of your judgements on her.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

jlg07 said:


> So first of all ANYONE who knew her THEN isn't going to remember one way or the other or say she had a bad reputation from back then. If she was screwing around NOW since she's been married for 20 years, YES that would give her a bad reputation, but that isn't the case here.
> 
> Second, having sex in committed relationships like SHE has done is in no way a "bad girl"
> She didn't do one night stand, orgies, gang-bangs, etc., right? She had sex in the confines of a loving relationship, which is TONS better than what you see now a days.


This is all TRUE...the problem is you are trying to apply logic and rationality to something that is in his primitive, instinctual brain - logic cannot touch this.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Sfort said:


> May I recommend the next conversation you have with her about this?
> 
> "Honey, I am not blaming you for anything you did before we met. You did what you did, and I did what I did. There was no betrayal on your part or my part. The problems we are experience are 100% on me. I realize it will be hard if not impossible for you to understand what I'm going through, but you are the not cause of my troubles. I am. What I need to do is work through some things. As I do so, I ask you to be patient and understanding. I hope I haven't done any permanent damage to our marriage. That was not my intent. If I have, I want to start repairing them right now."
> 
> Never ask her another question about her sexual life before you met her. Not even one detail. As someone who has recovered from RJ told me, when the mind movies start and when you start stressing over the things that have haunted you for the last two years, say to yourself, "GTFO"! That's "Get the F*** Out" of my mind.


TERRIFIC!!!


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

Lostinthought61 said:


> if there has ever been an individual for looking to destroy an other beautiful marriage it has to be you...her number is not high by any stretch first of all and even if it was double that SO WHAT!!!!!!!!!!
> I truly question your insecurity as a man, this is not about how she is viewed whether bad or good in the past tense or the present, it's about your in ability to appreciate the fact your wife had a life before you that involved carnal knowledge of opposite sex. I truly think you need psychological help because you are deeply disturbed...my god man you have been married these many years and this is bothering you now......get help and leave her alone she has done nothing but put up with your bantering for something she should not feel one ounce of guilt for. I promise you if you do not stop this insane thinking you will destroy your marriage and you will have no one to blame but yourself. Grow up


you very well might be right. I need to stop. This thread has been helpful. As for missing and not answering questions it’s just because of the volume of questions. Thanks all for your concern and input.
The most pending question seems to be how has this been hard for her. If I’m to speak for her it’s that someone she fell in love with 20 years ago has gone from her best friend and lover to a man who constantly questions her about her few experiences before him. I am very sorry about all this.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Trustless Marriage said:


> The point I am making is it's important to HIM. This topic is sensitive to me because of what my wife did to me. I had a long term relationship and that went bad after 8 years (she cheated on me). Didn't date much and so I knew whoever I found was in the same boat as me. I didn't want to be with someone who slept around - I didn't and that was important to ME. We went over our history when we met. Instead of telling me the truth or saying it's none of my business, she choose to lie (ashamed of her past and not wanting me to get away). So in essence, by lying, she ended up choosing who I was to marry - not me.
> 
> Sometimes other things trump whether or not you are a great person.


You could sleep with 20 people, and been in a committed relationship with each person and be a good person. I don't think the sex is the issue here. You just wound up with a bad and manipulative person. She could have had 1 partner, or 90, doesn't change the fact that she's a bad person. Sex doesn't factor into it.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Yes it's very hypocritical isn't it. If he did meet a virgin I doubt she would want him if he was truthful anyway.


He may have met a virgin, in heaven. He's passed on.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> I think this may be the best way to handle the situation. You are correct it’s the mental movies that are disturbing. What’s even more ridiculous is that it’s the first handful of sex experiences, not worth a movie.


I would recommend you answer @Sfort's Private Message, if you haven't...he has experience and understanding and could be a big help for you until you decide to see an actual counselor about this.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

.


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

Compared to many of our peers she does have a lower number than most. We both went to good schools and my wife is very educated our friends were just regular kids at that age. 
Honestly I’m really just pissed about #3. I have never met him but just that he lied to her about being engaged makes me angry. I know she would have never dated him had she known that. He was older and I feel like she was manipulated and yes I feel like I manipulated women into sex as well.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

So why take out the fact that you are mad at #3 out on your wife? SHE didn't know -- SHE didn't manipulate him to cheat, etc.. HER doing that without knowing doesn't make her a bad girl.
YES be pissed at the guy for taking advantage of her good nature, don't penalize her for it.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Fuchsfox said:


> We have been together now for almost 20 years and while I understand that her count of 4 (including me) lifetime partners is considered the median I have a hard time with it.


Do you want her to have more partners? If so let her sleep with other guys until she reaches a # you feel comfortable with.

If you're struggling with the three before you why? She lived her life and you weren't in the picture. Sounds like she was in relationships and not promiscuous having ONS.

You've been with her for TWENTY years and you said it's been good. Why are you making this an issue? There's SO many things couples can argue about, but from what you've described you need to chill out and count your blessings that you found a great girl and you're still married after twenty years.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

"Seen as a bad girl"???

Nothing you've described would indicate this!!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Fuchsfox said:


> Compared to many of our peers she does have a lower number than most. We both went to good schools and my wife is very educated our friends were just regular kids at that age.
> Honestly I’m really just pissed about #3. I have never met him but just that he lied to her about being engaged makes me angry. I know she would have never dated him had she known that. He was older and I feel like she was manipulated and yes I feel like I manipulated women into sex as well.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Fuchsfox said:


> I have looked at statistics which say the median lifetime partners for a woman is 4.3, I have talked to several female friends about their number and numbers of there friends and my wife is still lower than all of them. But this has still managed to play a large role in our life recently.
> Is 3 previous partners low, sometimes when I say 3 it sounds understandable she was very forthcoming with all info but other times it takes the life right out of me.


Those #s are probably from 40 yrs ago. In this age of promiscuity i bet it is a chunk more. Also unless it was a blind questionaire i would not believe it.


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## CBC82 (May 19, 2021)

Hiner112 said:


> can't imagine being in a


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> I think this may be the best way to handle the situation. You are correct it’s the mental movies that are disturbing. *What’s even more ridiculous* is that it’s the first handful of sex experiences, not worth a movie.


I want to reiterate here for the OP, and anyone else who is reading this, if you look at what I bolded in his post you will see that how he is feeling is NOT logical or rational to HIM either, nor is this simply a case of making him understand some simple perspective that he's just got blinders on about -- these feelings go much much deeper and are much harder to reach.

How his emotions are reacting to thoughts of his wife's previous partners is automatic, primitive, and instinctive. They come from the part of the brain that is SUB-conscious. So he is reacting to his thoughts of her with other men the same way anyone would react to almost stepping off a 1000ft cliff -- he is flailing and grasping to not fall over, and his brain is screaming DANGER, without stopping to examine the logic of it. 

I believe it's less about obsessive/compulsive tendencies, and more aligned with irrational fear tendencies, like people who are afraid of spiders or heights or snakes, etc, to the point of passing out.

The primitive, unconscious emotional brain is notoriously difficult to modify and soothe - it has it's own "danger" signs that are instinctive, and it believes that it's protecting us from DEATH by reacting immediately and severely. It takes a tremendous amount of work and effort to convince it that a perceived threat is actually NOT dangerous. And that is why most people need professional help with issues like this. 

KNOWING a truth in your logical mind WILL NOT WORK.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

What does your wife say to you about it? Is she understanding? Annoyed? Fed up with it all?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Fuchsfox said:


> Honestly I’m really just pissed about #3. I have never met him but just that he lied to her about being engaged makes me angry. I know she would have never dated him had she known that. He was older and I feel like she was manipulated and yes I feel like I manipulated women into sex as well.


Ding ding ding ding We have our breakthrough moment. 

Are you really mad at him for lying and supposedly "manipulating" her? Or do you have some disdain and disrespect for her that she was manipulated? But if you have a loss of respect for her for falling for lies and manipulations, then you also have to have some disdain and loss of respect for yourself since you manipulated women into sex (manipulation is your word) 

When you first got with her, were you introduced by your pastor and you were the perfect gentleman? Or did you lie and manipulate into her knickers at some point yourself and then just decided she was worth sticking around for?

it is a paradox - if she fell for lies and manipulation, then you may feel some disgust and loss of respect for her for being gullible and falling for it. But, what if she actually dug it and deep down knew #3 was otherwise engaged and she got with him because she was hot for him and didn't care he was engaged? And/or got with you even though she knew you were a bit of a snake.... Then one makes her gullible, but the other makes her a "Bad Girl" in your eyes. 

You want to picture the mother of your children as a paragon of virtue and that her soul is pure. But the reality is she is just another flesh and blood and there for fallible human being just like the rest of us. 

And now that you are the father of daughter you may be somewhat dismayed and disgusted that you are forced to realise that your wife and the whole rest of the world are all fallible human beings and that you are not a saint and she is not a Madonna and that your own flesh and blood daughter is going to go out into the world full of horny people that all lie and manipulate and give in to their carnal desires whether they are being lied to or not?

If you are inside this mental vortex, you can't win. You're not going to be able to reconcile this all and come out of it with unicorns and butterflies. Your wife ain't Madonna and you ain't Joseph. 

We all probably wrestle with this dilemma to one degree or another, but your issue is causing distress and trouble in your marriage. It is a dysfunction that left untreated can toxify and even destroy your marriage. 

As others have said, this is YOUR issue and not your wife's doing. Please seek professional help to get your brain straightened out and get back into the here and now. Get out of the vortex.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sfort said:


> I'm not surprised. Your answers have been good. Your latest questions did not sound like they were from someone who has impacted by RJ.
> 
> OP is struggling trying to find his center. I'd be willing to bet you and I have had a LONG time to deal with it. Most of the other posters here are skeptics and don't even acknowledge its existence. I'm not surprised he's struggling. He's here for help, and if there is anything I can do to help him, I will. A generous person has helped me, and if I've learned anything, I will try to pass it forward. However, doing it in a cacophony of doubters is distracting to him.


I think RJ is a component of the OP's issues, but may not be center stage. 

I have experienced it and in some ways my response to it was even more irrational and nonsensical than the OP's. 

I think a lot of people have experienced it to one degree or another at one time or another but like everything it can have varying degrees of impact. 

The OP has it bad, but it may not all be attributed to RJ. My personal opinion is that he has had some kind of existential event that has triggered it and brought it bubbling to the surface. It may have been laying in there festering for a long time but there was trigger event that brought it to the surface and that event may seem loosely related on the surface.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I think RJ is a component of the OP's issues, but may not be center stage.
> 
> I have experienced it and in some ways my response to it was even more irrational and nonsensical than the OP's.
> 
> ...


What you are suggesting is very possible. The events that trigger RJ are not well known. No source that I have studied has been able to positively identify them. There is no doubt that RJ is a complex and poorly understood complex/condition/disorder/sickness. There are (unconfirmed) reports that it has caused some people to commit suicide. Telling someone with RJ to "get over it" is like telling a Type 1 diabetic to get over it. It's not voluntary. 

In my humble opinion, he is suffering from RJ and RJ alone. There may be complications that exacerbate the problem, but we don't have enough information to make a decision like that. If there are any psychologist, psychotherapists, or psychiatrists who have been successful treating RJ, they need to advertise more as they are nowhere to be found. There's a guy selling a "solution" on YouTube, but I wouldn't send him a nickel.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

I don't see the problem here. She hid nothing from you, had no secret agenda to deceive. You entered into marriage fully aware of her past, and, hopefully, she of yours.

This can't be fixed unless you are willing to fix yourself. This isn't about her, it's about you. 

You were 22 and she 19 when you met. How old are you now? How long have you had these feelings? Did anything happen that brought this to the surface?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Fuchsfox said:


> I have looked at statistics which say the median lifetime partners for a woman is 4.3, I have talked to several female friends about their number and numbers of there friends and my wife is still lower than all of them. But this has still managed to play a large role in our life recently.
> Is 3 previous partners low, sometimes when I say 3 it sounds understandable she was very forthcoming with all info but other times it takes the life right out of me.


You are going places you shouldn't be, discussing this with female friends. It could be either intentional or you could unintentionally be seen as looking for a shoulder to cry on, and then some. This is how emotional and physical affairs can get started, especially when you're in a weak state of mind. Does your wife know how much this bothers you? Does she know you're talking with other women about it?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

jlg07 said:


> I don't know how old your wife is, but I checked for a 40 year old:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm.... Self reporting?🙄


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> Hmmm.... Self reporting?🙄


Not sure what you mean here?

Here is the article I pulled those from:





Average Number Of Sexual Partners For Women & Men: What's Normal? | mindbodygreen


Here's how many partners men and women have slept with, plus how many sexual partners is too many and what to do when your partner's number feels too high.




www.mindbodygreen.com


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You need to get over this. I mean come on dude. It was 20 years ago, she did nothing wrong. This is all you.

I personally think guys like you are afraid to compete with memories (I don't believe the bad girl stuff, sorry, your count is almost double). At least I hope that is the case because the other is so lame.

We all compete. If your mind is playing games with you making you feel like you are losing to these other guys get back in the game and blow the doors off. Don't blame your wife for your insecurities. Quit being afraid and compete.

She married you she had kids with you, she has had sex with only you for 20 years. You won.

I personally would not bring it up again. You don't need to tell her she did nothing wrong, she knows that and that will probably continue to annoy her as she probably is already. She should have to deal with any of this. You do wrong by even bring it up except maybe to say, hey this is on me I'm sorry and never talk about it again. If you don't fix it you will lose her, and your next girl at 40 will probably have more then 3.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Fuchsfox said:


> Compared to many of our peers she does have a lower number than most. We both went to good schools and my wife is very educated our friends were just regular kids at that age.
> Honestly I’m really just pissed about #3. I have never met him but just that he lied to her about being engaged makes me angry. I know she would have never dated him had she known that. He was older and I feel like she was manipulated and yes I feel like I manipulated women into sex as well.


This is not what you said when you got here. Seems your story is changing.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

So maybe EMDR therapy can help you get past this -- look for a therapist that specializes in this particular therapy.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

jlg07 said:


> Not sure what you mean here?
> 
> Here is the article I pulled those from:
> 
> ...


Self reporting can be off.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> The issue is in your mind. And it’s about controlling people.


It's obsessive compulsive behavior. I have it but I don't present with RJ, this is how it manifests in him. I on the other hand obsess over personal cleanliness. The birth of his daughter probably triggered him.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

We all (the collective long haulers here on TAM) know exactly what retroactive jealousy 'is'. It's bad. It has a bizarre and unfortunate synergy with infidelity. No good, ever ... comes of it. It erodes trust. It destroys intimacy. It can tank an otherwise unencumbered bond. On one hand @Fuchsfox the issue that you have taken the time to share here is not at all uncommon. On the other hand, I for one do not believe it is remotely worthwhile talking about the onset of your retroactive jealousy itself. What is worth exploring and putting a tremendous amount of effort into identifying, is the 'WHY?' Which at this point in time, unless I've missed the post, you indicate that you don't know. And the 'WHAT' impact is the manifestation of the issue having on the relationship with your wife of over 20 years?

You indicate that you don't know how it came about. I'd suggest you do know. Something has changed. Something on your part; your own self-esteem, confidence, a particular event related to your wife, a particular event completely unrelated to your wife. Something happened. And as a result it has had a tremendous impact upon how you view the depth and extent of your sexual relationship with your wife, and importantly how you choose to view your wife as a whole, and sexual person.

The 'number' game is irrelevant. And I know not everyone will agree with that. A woman with a number of one, could simply mean that she has banged the same guy silly 3 to 5 times a day while wearing a leather collar and a Michael Meyers (Halloween) mask in the back of the family mini-van for the last 20 years, or it could be a count of 10 where she was in a handful of significant long term relationships prior to you, and or had some unpleasant experiences in college, that she still chooses to disclose in her 'count'.

Hope you get to the bottom of it quickly man. Because once you do hit the bottom, it may not go deeper, but it will go uglier.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

As someone who has struggled with RJ throughout my marriage I am struggling with your issue. There seems to be something missing from your story. RJ is difficult for most to understand and you cannot clarify where yours actually comes from so I get it. It has been my experience, personally and from others posting here, that most RK involves someone who your spouse has not disclosed. I was pretty much over mine after 30 years and one day while discussing the past in general but not in dept my W tells me "I done things you don't know about". That was a can of worms I was not even interested in opening. In my mind it was a cruel manuever on her part and I was not interested in crippling myself emotionally again. Again your scenario seems to be missing something. It really does not make sense.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

At the end of the day all men make a choice about how they treat their wives. Browbeating them about past lovers is cruel and low class.

My wife lost her virginity at age 16 to a guy that we lived across the street from years later. Every time I mowed my lawn... there he was. I browbeat my wife a couple times about him and her long time college boyfriend- did nothing but upset her so I learned to keep my mouth shut. Am I jealous? Yes... to the grave... but my sweetheart will never know or hear about it again.

Jealousy or RJ or whatever- a man CAN keep his mouth shut and pretend like everything’s rosy... if he’s got the balls for it.

My wife suffered childbirth for me... I can shut up when I need to.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Trustless Marriage said:


> The point I am making is it's important to HIM. This topic is sensitive to me because of what my wife did to me. I had a long term relationship and that went bad after 8 years (she cheated on me). Didn't date much and so I knew whoever I found was in the same boat as me. I didn't want to be with someone who slept around - I didn't and that was important to ME. We went over our history when we met. Instead of telling me the truth or saying it's none of my business, she choose to lie (ashamed of her past and not wanting me to get away). So in essence, by lying, she ended up choosing who I was to marry - not me.
> 
> Sometimes other things trump whether or not you are a great person.


The great conundrum only the older and wiser see through for the sham it is;

every young guy or even older guy wants to marry a virgin AND from day one have her be capable, hot, sexy, cause no sexual stress for him, know how to please him and herself every encounter and know how to bring variety to their sex life.

And if she's not a virgin or has a count higher than one the guy stresses out about it and thinks she's a loose woman.

Idiocy. Pure stupid on a stick.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

RClawson said:


> It has been my experience, personally and from others posting here, that most [RJ] involves someone who your spouse has not disclosed.


That's not always the case. In most of the cases with which I'm familiar, it is triggered by information the wife has willingly communicated to the husband. Trickle truthing or delayed disclosure is closer to deception, assuming the husband has a right to know what wife discloses, which is not always the case.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> At the end of the day all men make a choice about how they treat their wives. Browbeating them about past lovers is cruel and low class.


Many RJ sufferers never even tell their wives about it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sfort said:


> That's not always the case. In most of the cases with which I'm familiar, it is triggered by information the wife has willingly communicated to the husband. Trickle truthing or delayed disclosure is closer to deception, assuming the husband has a right to know what wife discloses, which is not always the case.


How in the world can a H have RJ after 20 years of M if he's kept her happy in and out of the bedroom and she's always glad to bed him?

Serious question. What would make a H, or W, bring up pre M lovers at that time, or ever, really?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> How in the world can a H have RJ after 20 years of M if he's kept her happy in and out of the bedroom and she's always glad to bed him?
> 
> Serious question. What would make a H, or W, bring up pre M lovers at that time, or ever, really?


You don't get it, with all respect. You're asking a logical question about an illogical problem. What causes ALS? What causes MS? How do these things pop up with no apparent cause? Can you deny their existence because you don't know their origin? 

RJ is impossible for you to understand if you don't suffer from it. It wouldn't be fair for you to say ALS makes no sense because you don't suffer from it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sfort said:


> You don't get it, with all respect. You're asking a logical question about an illogical problem. What causes ALS? What causes MS? How do these things pop up with no apparent cause? Can you deny their existence because you don't know their origin?
> 
> RJ is impossible for you to understand if you don't suffer from it. It wouldn't be fair for you to say ALS makes no sense because you don't suffer from it.


I know, and kindly, that's why I asked. I don't get it but realize it's a thing. Just trying to gain more knowledge on the human condition.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I know, and kindly, that's why I asked. I don't get it but realize it's a thing. Just trying to gain more knowledge on the human condition.


What causes claustrophobia? What's the treatment? Do you acknowledge it exists and that is debilitating for some people? The human brain can operate on its own without our permission or understanding.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> How in the world can a H have RJ after 20 years of M if he's kept her happy in and out of the bedroom and she's always glad to bed him?
> 
> Serious question. What would make a H, or W, bring up pre M lovers at that time, or ever, really?


I can say it has happens to me. I've managed to keep from badgering my wife about it, but the feelings still arise. She was very open early on about her past and I'm ashamed to say early in our marriage I probably gave her a much harder time than I ever should have. However, we got past it and for stretches of time I've basically forgot those guys existed. I honestly can't even remember her first partner's name even though she told me. Now I'd rather not remember, and I force myself not to ask. Honestly I think she has tried to forget that one. We have had 30+ years of amazing marriage and we are completely happy, but to this day I have to work hard to suppress the jealousy I feel from time to time. For the most part I can never put my finger on what triggers it, but I am slightly obsessive about other things in my life and it is a similar feeling. Sometimes it is something so small. I'll be listening to 80's on 8 on Sirius XM and it shows the year a song was released. I'll see one that say '86 and I think, "that's the year she moved in with that guy." So stupid, but it happens. I've come up with strategies to deal with it and pack it away, but I can easily see how someone may not cope with it so well, even after being so deep into a very long and happy relationship.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Sfort said:


> Many RJ sufferers never even tell their wives about it.


This is probably all @Fuchsfox needs to know. @Fuchsfox - keep your mouth shut and your appearance cheerful. if you want to seek out counseling- go for it. For what it's worth- I never sought counseling but "recovered" from this (I think) by frequently receiving the sacraments. If this is a cross you have to carry for your wife- so be it.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> This is probably all @Fuchsfox needs to know. @Fuchsfox - keep your mouth shut and your appearance cheerful. if you want to seek out counseling- go for it. For what it's worth- I never sought counseling but "recovered" from this (I think) by frequently receiving the sacraments. If this is a cross you have to carry for your wife- so be it.


I agree, but that solution doesn't fully address the problem. He needs relief from it, as well.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Sfort said:


> I agree, but that solution doesn't fully address the problem. He needs relief from it, as well.


Maybe the relief he needs is "hey man you being a wuss... grow a pair. Your grand-daddy was getting shot at in WW2". lol


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Maybe the relief he needs is "hey man you being a wuss... grow a pair. Your grand-daddy was getting shot at in WW2". lol


I don't always agree with @CatholicDad but this answer in this case is similar to my thoughts on the matter. 

I recognize the real mental issue being shared and have empathy for same but the answer is in the same realm, just get over it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sfort said:


> What causes claustrophobia? What's the treatment? Do you acknowledge it exists and that is debilitating for some people? The human brain can operate on its own without our permission or understanding.


Of course.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The great conundrum only the older and wiser see through for the sham it is;
> 
> every young guy or even older guy wants to marry a virgin AND from day one have her be capable, hot, sexy, cause no sexual stress for him, know how to please him and herself every encounter and know how to bring variety to their sex life.
> 
> ...


I would have to disagree about wanting a capable partner from the beginning at least in my case. My ex and I exploring our own and each other's sexuality as virgins was a great bonding experience. At least for me every "I like it when you do _", "lets try _", or patient guiding hand made me feel closer to her. Even the reminders about not using teeth or whatever weren't really a negative because it showed that we were listening to each other and working towards mutual enjoyment together.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

My wife suffers from "Pure O", negative, recurrent, obtrusive thoughts. It's a type of OCD, although it's not always recognised as a separate condition. You don't act on your thoughts. OP, I would seriously seek the appropriate therapy for this. My wife didn't (well refused) and it destroyed our marriage at the end.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> Maybe the relief he needs is "hey man you being a wuss... grow a pair. Your grand-daddy was getting shot at in WW2". lol


If you feel this way, then you clearly don't understand the problem.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Hiner112 said:


> I would have to disagree about wanting a capable partner from the beginning at least in my case. My ex and I exploring our own and each other's sexuality as virgins was a great bonding experience. At least for me every "I like it when you do _", "lets try _", or patient guiding hand made me feel closer to her. Even the reminders about not using teeth or whatever weren't really a negative because it showed that we were listening to each other and working towards mutual enjoyment together.


And that's you, that's ok, and it shows a rational process on going. You've shown you haven't fallen to the fallacy of expecting both opposing circumstances to be true at the same time. Good approach.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Sfort said:


> If you feel this way, then you clearly don't understand the problem.


I actually think I do. I became super jealous in the middle of my marriage as my wife and I struggled through a string of pregnancies/babies/illnesses/cancer when my wife was somewhat unavailable to me. I was fixated on the fact that her college boyfriend got all the fun (for nothing)... I got all the shyt. There was one particular sex act that really obsessively bothered me... I don't care to elaborate on.

I think I had to focus on the good. I was the only guy that got to have children with her and she is truly an amazing woman and mother. I've said before one of the most important traits a man needs for success in marriage is self control... I learned to buck up, keep my mouth shut when I was having those jealous feelings, and try and take out my frustrations through hard work, exercise, or just loving my wife better (and harder ) than anyone else. I also think the Catholic Church helped me a lot.... try confessing to your (celibate) priest about how you're jealous over old boyfriends and/or a lack of sex.. see if that doesn't make you feel like a wuss.

If a man isn't in a daily battle to be good and do good.. he's probably lost or has given up. We all have a "little wuss" inside.... don't listen to him.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Fuchsfox said:


> This is the only issue we have in our relationship and it has torn us apart for the past 2 years.


I can only observe rather superficially and make an educated guess. I think you are having problems naturally (just like everyone) and perhaps looking for something to blame. Because if your relationship is having problems, something has to be to blame, right? 

Have you checked your vitamin D levels recently? That could be to blame if you are not getting enough sunlight. Yep! That is it! Now that that is solved, we should research how low vitamin D levels can impact relationships. 

OMFG look at this:









26 Side Effects of Low Vitamin D You Need to Know About


From depression to cancer, many conditions go along with vitamin D deficiency.




www.health.com







> According to the Nurses' Health Study II, women between the ages of 27 and 44 with a high intake of vitamin D had the lowest risk of experiencing PMS symptoms. (The study found that higher calcium intake was also associated with lower PMS risk.) A 2010 pilot study suggested a connection between vitamin D levels and PMS for younger women as well. Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen and naproxen are still the first line of therapy for PMS symptoms, but researchers believe vitamin D supplements are a promising alternative.


Confirmed my research. 

Go get some sun ASAP and the next thing you know all your problems with past relationships will fade away somehow and not be an issue. 

I'm being sarcastic here, but in my honest opinion sometimes relationship problems are just what they are. Nothing is actually wrong and trying to find something to blame is a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts that can indeed end a relationship! 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

badsanta said:


> I can only observe rather superficially and make an educated guess. I think you are having problems naturally (just like everyone) and perhaps looking for something to blame. Because if your relationship is having problems, something has to be to blame, right?
> 
> Have you checked your vitamin D levels recently? That could be to blame if you are not getting enough sunlight. Yep! That is it! Now that that is solved, we should research how low vitamin D levels can impact relationships.
> 
> ...


My vitamin d is low. Just had it checked.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Fuchsfox said:


> Does this sound like a typical partner count for a 19year old? Is this a history that most people would accept. My partner count is higher so that is not it.
> Thanks


I'm in my 40's and things were different back in my single days, but I'll give my opinion anyways. She's been with 4 men in her entire life and one of them is you. That's...not a lot. I'd consider that a negligible sexual history not even really worth mentioning, honestly.


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

MJJEAN said:


> I'm in my 40's and things were different back in my single days, but I'll give my opinion anyways. She's been with 4 men in her entire life and one of them is you. That's...not a lot. I'd consider that a negligible sexual history not even really worth mentioning, honestly.


im also in my 40s, when I met my wife I was dating just like the majority of us and when I started to really fall for her we had the conversation of previous partners. She said three and I remember thinking to myself that’s ok. But fast forward 20 years and 3 kids to today and this issue has consumed me.

I’d like to know what others think about 3 previous partners. Is it typical should I be happy about it.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Fuchsfox said:


> im also in my 40s, when I met my wife I was dating just like the majority of us and when I started to really fall for her we had the conversation of previous partners. She said three and I remember thinking to myself that’s ok. But fast forward 20 years and 3 kids to today and this issue has consumed me.
> 
> I’d like to know what others think about 3 previous partners. Is it typical should I be happy about it.


Based on this you are definitely the problem in the relationship. After everything said here, including answers to that specific question, you are still asking others to validate whether or not your loving wife of 20 years and mother of your 3 children is a wh0re or not because she slept with 3 guys before she knew you. At the same time your attitude is that you are a saint that deserves better even though you've slept with more people. How would you feel if she was asking the same question about you? Let's suppose her past history makes her a "bad girl". Then what? You dump her, lose your kids and are alone. Do you think you will find a 40 something women with less history? Good luck!

If you can't get these thoughts in check right now I think your best bet is step away from the keyboard and seek some professional counseling. You have a psychological issue that is on the verge of ruining a 20 year marriage and will have negative consequences on 3 innocent children.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Well, I think you should be happy it was 3 in committed relationships, and not 20 with her out banging random dudes at frat parties.
It shows HER view of sexuality -- that it is tied to emotions and being in a relationship and not just a "fun biological function".
I do really think that you should investigate some of the therapies out there.
Being jealous SUCKS for the person who is jealous -- you are torturing yourself. AND if you keep bringing it up with your wife, it will also suck for HER.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Fuchsfox said:


> My vitamin d is low. Just had it checked.


Mine as well!


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

My question for all that are still following this conversation is this

I feel like I’m the only man that has a wife who has


BigDaddyNY said:


> Based on this you are definitely the problem in the relationship. After everything said here, including answers to that specific question, you are still asking others to validate whether or not your loving wife of 20 years and mother of your 3 children is a wh0re or not because she slept with 3 guys before she knew you. At the same time your attitude is that you are a saint that deserves better even though you've slept with more people. How would you feel if she was asking the same question about you? Let's suppose her past history makes her a "bad girl". Then what? You dump her, lose your kids and are alone. Do you think you will find a 40 something women with less history? Good luck!
> 
> If you can't get these thoughts in check right now I think your best bet is step away from the keyboard and seek some professional counseling. You have a psychological issue that is on the verge of ruining a 20 year marriage and will have negative consequences on 3 innocent childre





BigDaddyNY said:


> Based on this you are definitely the problem in the relationship. After everything said here, including answers to that specific question, you are still asking others to validate whether or not your loving wife of 20 years and mother of your 3 children is a wh0re or not because she slept with 3 guys before she knew you. At the same time your attitude is that you are a saint that deserves better even though you've slept with more people. How would you feel if she was asking the same question about you? Let's suppose her past history makes her a "bad girl". Then what? You dump her, lose your kids and are alone. Do you think you will find a 40 something women with less history? Good luck!
> 
> If you can't get these thoughts in check right now I think your best bet is step away from the keyboard and seek some professional counseling. You have a psychological issue that is on the verge of ruining a 20 year marriage and will have negative consequences on 3 innocent children.


I do not carry the attitude that I am a saint. I have never said that and in other post I have made mention to regrets. 
But I do wonder what other people’s opinions are of her past.


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

Fuchsfox said:


> My question for all that are still following this conversation is this
> 
> I feel like I’m the only man that has a wife who has
> 
> ...


I wonder if my feelings are too extreme compared to others. Do others consider this partner count typical. It’s a question that rattles around in my brain. That’s why I asked. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m right. Maybe it’s just a gray area with many right answers.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Fuchsfox said:


> My question for all that are still following this conversation is this
> 
> I feel like I’m the only man that has a wife who has
> 
> ...


You didn't call yourself a saint, but you are holding your wife to a different standard than yourself. 

Stop asking


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Some feelings are destructive. Push them away and replace with the love/admiration/joy that you get from having a wife that loves you.

You could search the world over and not find a better "partner count"- unless you manage to find/woo a cloistered nun.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Fuchsfox said:


> I wonder if my feelings are too extreme compared to others. Do others consider this partner count typical. It’s a question that rattles around in my brain. That’s why I asked. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m right. Maybe it’s just a gray area with many right answers.


MANY MANY MANY people here are already answered your question -- she is typical (even LOW), and she is NOT a "bad girl"
You just don't want to see to accept that.


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You didn't call yourself a saint, but you are holding your wife to a different standard than yourself.
> 
> Stop asking


I feel like I’d stop asking if I could get an answer


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> MANY MANY MANY people here are already answered your question -- she is typical (even LOW), and she is NOT a "bad girl"
> You just don't want to see to accept that.


Thank you for being straight. I do appreciate everyone’s concern on this site. Many people here have been very helpful. Thank you


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> I feel like I’d stop asking if I could get an answer


Here's an answer, of sorts. Two is better than three. One is better than two. None is better than one. However, even if the number were only one, you would still be here with the same issue. You're framing your problem that three is a bad number. In reality, I don't think the number has anything to do with what you are experiencing. As you continue to examine where you are mentally, you will see what I mean.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Fuchsfox said:


> Thank you for being straight. I do appreciate everyone’s concern on this site. Many people here have been very helpful. Thank you


I know this is hard because this type of jealousy is irrational and it will eat you up if you don't get some help with it!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Fuchsfox said:


> I wonder if my feelings are too extreme compared to others. Do others consider this partner count typical. It’s a question that rattles around in my brain. That’s why I asked. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m right. Maybe it’s just a gray area with many right answers.


You are stuck in a time warp. 

Despite 10 pages of dialogue you are still asking the same question as yesterday despite 200 responses telling you that there’s nothing abnormal about her and that there is something wrong with YOU and that you should seek professional help.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

My high school GF was 19 when we split up. 

I wonder if her husband frets about us today? 

Would it help him if he heard it from me that the longest I ever lasted was probably around 45 seconds and I think she may have let out an audible groan once .......... of course that was probably when I knocked over the lamp on the bedside table that hit her on the head,, but I’ll keep that to myself and let him think I was some kind of stud and great lover at 18.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sfort said:


> Here's an answer, of sorts. Two is better than three. One is better than two. None is better than one. However, even if the number were only one, you would still be here with the same issue. You're framing your problem that three is a bad number. In reality, I don't think the number has anything to do with what you are experiencing. As you continue to examine where you are mentally, you will see what I mean.


I agree. 

If it wasn’t about 3 previous BFs, he would be obsessing over whether she was hot for some guy at the grocery store or whether she had a secret crush on Fred Flintstone because he could power an automobile with his feet. 

The problem is in his head and doesn’t have anything to do with her actual relationship history. 

The man needs mental health intervention. 

All this talk women’s notch counts and lying about their histories and whether women can bond after having sex with previous partners etc etc is just fueling his delusional thinking.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I agree.
> 
> If it wasn’t about 3 previous BFs, he would be obsessing over whether she was hot for some guy at the grocery store or whether she had a secret crush on Fred Flintstone because he could power an automobile with his feet.
> 
> ...


I think I have a little more compassion about his situation than you or some others do as I have conducted a multi-year study of RJ. Counseling may (or may not) help, but he needs to understand the nature of the problem. If it takes him asking the same questions repeatedly to get there, I'm here to try to answer those questions as many times as he thinks my responses are helpful. There are very few resources to help sufferers, and I hope one day to provide something that is helpful. If I do, the help will be how to cope with it, not how to cure it. There is no cure.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> I feel like I’d stop asking if I could get an answer


Here is where you are WRONG. You only THINK an answer will soothe your jealousy. 
In fact, you have received SEVERAL answers on this thread, yet you are STILL STUCK on that issue. Can YOU see that?

Because this is an anxiety/obsessive issue, once you get an answer, it doesn't do anything to alleviate what is really bothering you. And even if you got an answer that made you feel better, in a few days (if that) you would have a NEW question or issue about her past that would suddenly start to bother you.

If it was only about getting an answer, it wouldn't have haunted your marriage for TWO YEARS.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Sfort said:


> I think I have a little more compassion about his situation than you or some others do as I have conducted a multi-year study of RJ. Counseling may (or may not) help, but he needs to understand the nature of the problem. If it takes him asking the same questions repeatedly to get there, I'm here to try to answer those questions as many times as he thinks my responses are helpful. There are very few resources to help sufferers, and I hope one day to provide something that is helpful. If I do, the help will be how to cope with it, not how to cure it. There is no cure.


But it's not totally about lacking compassion. HE HAS RECEIVED SEVERAL ANSWERS TO HIS QUESTION...why hasn't it helped him yet?

His struggle is not about the number. He is asking the wrong questions, and ignoring his real problem so he can hyper-focus on how powerless he feels about his wife's past. He wants answers that he isn't going to find with anyone except within himself.

Even when YOU have gotten answers to your questions, it's been with a healthy dose of self-reflection and some enlightenment about what you are doing TO YOURSELF...I'm NOT seeing that with this poster. He is clinging very tightly to HIS jealousy and justifying it to himself. It sounds like holding on to his jealousy is what is making him feel secure right now, and that has to be undone if he is to find the beginning of any TRUE relief.

I hope I am wrong and you are right...but I am discouraged to see his latest responses, because I don't know if he is trying to change his mindset at all. And THAT is the only path to PEACE for him.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I hope I am wrong and you are right...but I am discouraged to see his latest responses, because I don't know if he is trying to change his mindset at all. And THAT is the only path to PEACE for him.


According to his original post, they have been struggling with this problem for two years. That's a long time. During that time, I'll bet he has drug his wife through hell. Yet, I have no reason to believe that he does not love her with all of his heart. He cannot see or understand what he is doing to her and to their relationship.

When our minds are made up, we have to hear answers to the same questions several times for it to sink in. I'm a professional person. I have to attend continuing education courses to maintain my career. Even though most people blow these courses off as a waste of time, not only do I listen and follow along, I record them and listen a second time. You will be amazed at how much I hear the second time that I missed the first time.

His latest responses do not bother me at all. None. I fully expected his responses. My hopes are that he will overlook the "just get over it" ******** that some people post here and stick around long enough to get help. I don't know that we can help him, but I know I will try with every bit of energy I can muster to help him. RJ is hell. A friend helped me, and I have a duty to pay it forward, if I know anything that will help.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Fuchsfox said:


> I’d like to know what others think about 3 previous partners. Is it typical should I be happy about it.


It' not something you be happy or unhappy about. It just is.



Fuchsfox said:


> I wonder if my feelings are too extreme compared to others. Do others consider this partner count typical. It’s a question that rattles around in my brain. That’s why I asked. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m right. Maybe it’s just a gray area with many right answers.


If you want a blunt personal opinion, I think that is a low partner count.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> You are stuck in a time warp.
> 
> Despite 10 pages of dialogue you are still asking the same question as yesterday despite 200 responses telling you that there’s nothing abnormal about her and that there is something wrong with YOU and that you should seek professional help.


Don't get swallowed like scrambled eggs....


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MJJEAN said:


> It' not something you be happy or unhappy about. It just is.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want a blunt personal opinion, I think that is a low partner count.


Many of us have been through "worse".

My body count was around 60 at age 20 and Mrs. Conan's was more than 3.

It's truly not worth discussing anyway as she is relatively normal and he was fine and until two years ago when he was struck with the martian ray or something...


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## Fuchsfox (May 19, 2021)

Alright everyone, I have contacted a shrink and will be discussing my issues with him on a regular basis. 
His first request of me was to get off the computer and I’m going to respect this request. 

This will be my last post until some unknown date. Thank you for the advice and opinions.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Fuchsfox said:


> Alright everyone, I have contacted a shrink and will be discussing my issues with him on a regular basis.
> His first request of me was to get off the computer and I’m going to respect this request.
> 
> This will be my last post until some unknown date. Thank you for the advice and opinions.


Good luck. I hope he understands RJ.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Fuchsfox said:


> Alright everyone, I have contacted a shrink and will be discussing my issues with him on a regular basis.
> His first request of me was to get off the computer and I’m going to respect this request.
> 
> This will be my last post until some unknown date. Thank you for the advice and opinions.


Getting off the computer is probably very sound advice at this point.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Sfort said:


> I think I have a little more compassion about his situation than you or some others do as I have conducted a multi-year study of RJ. Counseling may (or may not) help, but he needs to understand the nature of the problem. If it takes him asking the same questions repeatedly to get there, I'm here to try to answer those questions as many times as he thinks my responses are helpful. There are very few resources to help sufferers, and I hope one day to provide something that is helpful. If I do, the help will be how to cope with it, not how to cure it. There is no cure.


@Sfort , have you found that EMDR may help in these cases?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

jlg07 said:


> @Sfort , have you found that EMDR may help in these cases?


Don't know anything about it or how to find someone who is competent to administer it. Suggestions?


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Fuchsfox said:


> This is the only issue we have in our relationship and it has torn us apart for the past 2 years.


Why did it start to be a problem two years ago?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Atholk said:


> Why did it start to be a problem two years ago?


OP has checked out. He may be back in the future.


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## Trustless Marriage (Mar 1, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The great conundrum only the older and wiser see through for the sham it is;
> 
> every young guy or even older guy wants to marry a virgin AND from day one have her be capable, hot, sexy, cause no sexual stress for him, know how to please him and herself every encounter and know how to bring variety to their sex life.
> 
> ...


Wow. Totally ignorant and unfair statement.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Many of us have been through "worse".
> 
> My body count was around 60 at age 20 and Mrs. Conan's was more than 3.
> 
> It's truly not worth discussing anyway as she is relatively normal and he was fine and until two years ago when he was struck with the martian ray or something...


Dude, seriously, most people I knew hit 4 before they could vote. A lot of them before they could legally drive. 

DH and I met when we were 24. I'm in the low 30's. DH at half that if you only count PIV, about equal if you count other encounters that resulted in orgasm. Are either of us fussed about this? No. In fact, it's a bonus. We both sowed our oats and learned ourselves and others through experience. Neither ever has to wonder what we missed out on because we didn't.



Trustless Marriage said:


> Wow. Totally ignorant and unfair statement.


You're relatively new at 3 months. Hang around and watch. We frequently get posts that basically say the same thing in more complicated language and a bit of spin. It's a regular thing. Apparently, either a LOT of men feel that way or all the ones that do frequent this forum. Hell, and the other 2 forums I am regularly on.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Fuchsfox said:


> im also in my 40s, when I met my wife I was dating just like the majority of us and when I started to really fall for her we had the conversation of previous partners. She said three and I remember thinking to myself that’s ok. But fast forward 20 years and 3 kids to today and this issue has consumed me.
> 
> I’d like to know what others think about 3 previous partners. Is it typical should I be happy about it.



Wish I could help you, or any man for that matter suffering with this compulsion/obsession. It's an addiction. You should quite honestly be thinking of it in those terms. I'm 100% serious. And much like addiction, what your wife actually did, or did not do, or disclose, has absolutely zero to do with the swamp you now find yourself caught up in. Yet as you wrestle with this issue, you make it about her. Her partner count, then it morphs into mind movies, did she enjoy then what she doesn't enjoy now? Did other guys get a crack at that thing she's denying me?
Plug up one mental rabbit hole, and your mind will simply find another.

No idea if this will be of any help to you at all, but God forbid, your wife disappeared off the planet tomorrow, and you aren't ready to be single for the rest of your life; yet still hold this 'low partner count' red herring, as an important qualifier for a future female partner sacred; then you will be a lonely dude. If you find yourself dating in your 40's and want to use the 'how many lovers' metric, it is frankly, self-sabotage. Because the woman will either be honest, and you will be horrified, or she will lie in an effort to remain valuable to you, and then you get to perseverate over THAT. The very same conundrum in which you currently find yourself. I'm very well aware of the statistical analysis that indicates 'most' women average around 4 partners over their lifetime, and I call 'horsesh!te' on that. Three is RIDICULOUSLY low for any average westernized, urban, suburban female under the age of 50.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MJJEAN said:


> Dude, seriously, most people I knew hit 4 before they could vote. A lot of them before they could legally drive.
> 
> DH and I met when we were 24. I'm in the low 30's. DH at half that if you only count PIV, about equal if you count other encounters that resulted in orgasm. Are either of us fussed about this? No. In fact, it's a bonus. We both sowed our oats and learned ourselves and others through experience. Neither ever has to wonder what we missed out on because we didn't.
> 
> ...


I'll pretty much agree with the exception about more partners being a good thing. 😉


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Deejo said:


> Because the woman will either be honest, and you will be horrified, or she will lie in an effort to remain valuable to you, and then you get to *perseverate* over THAT.


It is a good day! I found a new word in the wild! 🥳



ConanHub said:


> I'll pretty much agree with the exception about more partners being a good thing. 😉


Hey, some of us need to sample a bit more of the menu before we know what we like is all!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Fuchsfox said:


> im also in my 40s, when I met my wife I was dating just like the majority of us and when I started to really fall for her we had the conversation of previous partners. She said three and I remember thinking to myself that’s ok. But fast forward 20 years and 3 kids to today and this issue has consumed me.
> 
> I’d like to know what others think about 3 previous partners. Is it typical should I be happy about it.


Dude when i was in college there was a girl across the hall that was 21 and had slept with 21 guys. Bragged about it.

I look at it this way...my wife had 3 before my...including a 10 yr exhusband. Unless you are a virgin and want to marry one...and she lied that she was and then you found out otherwise...you dont have a leg to stand on. 

In todays time kids are sleeping around much earlier.i passed up a few in HS because they were...but i refrained till 23 looking for the one.

40 yr pld woman with only 4 partners including a STBXH if he dont cut out the crap! How do you think she would feel about your count.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Fuchsfox said:


> My question for all that are still following this conversation is this
> 
> I feel like I’m the only man that has a wife who has
> 
> ...


Not as bad as yours.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

OP is not participating in the thread for a while on the advice of his therapist.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

IME people with RJ are worried that they don't measure up and put their partner on a pedestal.

In cultures where women have limited power very little is actually expected of men which in turn leads to weak men who feel like they don't measure up. They don't want their wife to be able to compare them to anyone else because they're secretly afraid they won't measure up. They don't think about their wife being compared to their past women because in their mind there is no comparison...their wife is on a pedestal above all others. Strong men don't worry about it because they know they measure up.

I'm talking about the men with double standards, not the ones who have limited experience themselves and just want a partner with similar values. I understand the desire for similar values.

I told another guy here on TAM who had the same issues that he was ridiculous to compare himself to other men because the guys his wife had before him were nothing....he was her beloved husband. He did seem to understand that.

We had another one that I recall who struggled for a long time with RJ and made his wife miserable. He then found out he had cancer and lamented all of the time he wasted making both of them miserable. Last he posted he was spending as much quality time with her and his kids as he could.

I hope he beat his cancer, but if not I hope he got a lot of quality time with his family.

I've been married twice and have 2 grown boys. My bf has never been married and has no kids, so should he be jealous of me? If he is he doesn't show it, and he has no reason to be because I left both husbands because they were jerks. This guy is uniquely special while we're together and nobody before him matters. 

Think about it OP.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

dude. that is all water under the bridge. let it go. focusing on stuff she did before she met you is a fools waste of time


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> dude. that is all water under the bridge. let it go. focusing on stuff she did before she met you is a fools waste of time


This advice will not work for RJ any more than it will for OCD, claustrophobia, fibromyalgia, or Type One diabetes.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Sfort said:


> OP is not participating in the thread for a while on the advice of his therapist.


I agree with the therapist here. If you have stuff going around like mad in your head already, you don't want to get even more confused by reading all the contradictory opinions here.


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## Sammy4571 (May 25, 2021)

I know my wife’s and it bugs me also. We have been together for 27 years and I still don’t like it. Nothing you or I can do about it. Just try not to think about it. The found out my wife lied to me about 1 guy. Not sure why she did. This bothers me. Anyway your wife’s numbers are low if that helps


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Sammy4571 said:


> I know my wife’s and it bugs me also. We have been together for 27 years and I still don’t like it. Nothing you or I can do about it. Just try not to think about it. The found out my wife lied to me about 1 guy. Not sure why she did. This bothers me. Anyway your wife’s numbers are low if that helps


That is where the problem is. If they are lying about something then they are hiding something. Leaves one thinking, do they still have a thing for so and so?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Sammy4571 said:


> I know my wife’s and it bugs me also. We have been together for 27 years and I still don’t like it. Nothing you or I can do about it. Just try not to think about it. The found out my wife lied to me about 1 guy. Not sure why she did. This bothers me. Anyway your wife’s numbers are low if that helps


Your wife's past bugging you is probably RJ. Her lying about one guy is current (not retroactive) betrayal. Spouses don't necessarily have to tell each other everything, but they shouldn't like about it. "There is one other guy, but I'm not going to talk about him." It's not a satisfying response, but it's truthful.


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