# I really screwed up and lost my wife. Heartbroken.



## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

I wish I had looked at a site like this a long time ago, instead of waiting until I drove my wife away. It's Tuesday. She left me last Friday. We have been married for 6 years as of last September. We have been together for 11 years. Everyone has their story, and mine is similar to most of them. I am an *******. Please excuse my language. It's true. I didn't realize it until she was walking out that door, but I have been terrible to her for years. I have been so angry about the past, and I couldn't see that I was ruining my marriage and her heart by trying to force her to be the woman I wanted instead of focusing on being the man I am that she fell in love with in the first place. I watched the car to see if she was really going to pull out of the driveway. When it did, I felt every bit of anger that I have ever had in my life flow out of my body. Instantly, it turned into sadness. At that moment it was like a fog or a trance had lifted, and everything I ever did to her came racing through my mind, as if it had been waiting in a queue behind my selfish anger. 

Like most, it would seem, I did not really have any idea what I was doing at the time. I didn't see that I was hurting her, let alone that I was destroying her heart. The human body is crazy thing. Our parts and organs have defense mechanisms, especially the heart. The heart can only take so much physical stress and emotional abuse before it becomes callused. We protect ourselves from being hurt again, and at some point it's not a voluntary thing. The heart will always be able to heal. However, it does heal at the same speed that it gets hurt. It's a slow and timely process for the heart to open back up again and even begin to conceive of loving you or anyone else again. 

So let me tell you how I've spent my time since last Friday... It's also a typical story. I put the nail in our coffin myself, when my wife asked me for space to figure out if she wanted to remain married to me. An instant rage came over me, and I acted from emotions. I told the best thing that ever happened to me that she could not come back if she left. I felt in that moment she needed to make her choice in our home. Well, and that's only half true. I was panicking in my heart. I didn't want her to leave. I really thought that if I told her our marriage would be over that she wouldn't leave. I wouldn't have said it if I'd have known just how serious she was. At the same time, if it didn't happen, who knows if I would have ever seen the way I have treated her. So moving on, my sadness was instant as I mentioned before. I had an instant awakening, like many of us do. My problems suddenly seemed so small. That's because they really were. I begged, I pleaded, I apologized, I confessed all my sins, and I cried my heart out every day losing my mind doing nothing to begin my own healing. Truthfully, I'm still losing it as I type this, but I have gained some insight and knowledge from the interwebs that is helping me to understand my path forward and to cope one way or the other. I no longer have an excuse to say I don't know the correct and productive ways to deal with my emotions. So, I wanted to share some things that stand out to me that really helped me. Just yesterday, I was hopeless. I finally sought some help by reading, and it only took about 20 minutes to find some truly eye opening realities. 

I learned that we often think we know what we should do instinctively, but we really don't, unless we have studied the complex world of marriage and love beyond our own understanding and experiences. Then we might have some clue, but it's best left to the professionals. As common as this event is in the world, there are a lot of consistencies. A lot of men will panic, beg, and turn in to sobbing messes complaining of how bad they are hurting. That's what I did. It seemed like the thing to do, so she would know how much I really regretted my actions and words. So she would know how badly I really did want her. Leave it to us men to always try to fix things. She didn't need me to fix her, she needed me to get away from her and let her have some peace and healing. There I was, still making her life harder, not appreciating her needs. 

So here are some hard facts, that I've had to swallow. Hard facts are best served like crow, so I'm so glad I came to this conclusion sooner than later. Nobody falls in love with a sobbing disaster in the beginning, and they aren't going to find their love for you while you're a sobbing disaster She had just spend many years having to care about my emotions while I didn't care enough about hers. She didn't leave me to keep doing it, she left me for space. I honestly think I have really pushed her too far. She has me 100% convinced there is no chance for us. Losing her is the last thing in the world that I want, but I shouldn't have taken her for granted when I had some influence on the matter. I hope and pray that maybe there will be hope for one last try. I would do anything for it. That being said, we have to pick ourselves up and remember why our lover fell for us to begin with. I have to reclaim my security and confidence and be the man she fell in love with... Duh, right? So we have to move on, and that's the hardest. We have to self evaluate and really change. I took a hard look at myself, and I realized that I have just never learned how to deal with emotions. There have been a lot of emotional things that have piled up in my life at the same time. There were a lot of those emotional times that had nothing to do with her. She took the brunt of my emotional response for those things too. It will never be easy for anyone to be good to you, if you're so selfish and you aren't good to them while expecting it. So I've had to get over myself. 

We tend to believe that our lives are over when this happens. We really believe that. I know I did. Just last night I thought that. Well, it's just not. The sooner we realize that, the sooner it can be true. If you feel your life is over and proceed as such, then it will be over until you change. That includes any chance of her coming back. If it's going to happen for me, it's going to happen because I pull it together and become the man she fell in love with and always needed. And if it doesn't happen, we have to do it for ourselves just as much, because nobody else will love us either if we aren't confident secure men. 

To any ladies who might be reading. If I sound like your husband, I am really sorry. If your husband has been begging you to come back, if there is any doubt in our mind about leaving, maybe try to cut him some slack. Most of us just don't know what we are doing. If we had the tools, we'd use them. He's still in there, but lost. He needs some guidance. Don't lose hope. I think I have really ruined my chances, and I will never regret anything more. She doesn't believe that, but it really the gut wrenching truth. 

So at the end of the day, I have learned that you can't move forward while looking backwards. I don't really have it together yet by any means. I'm still a devastated mess inside. I know it's going to be hard for a very long time. She really was the one. But, I know the quickest path forward for me to be happy again regardless is to get back to being me. I'm coping by talking. We tend to reach out for anyone who will sympathize and listen. I just know that the things I have learned in the last 24 hours have helped me tremendously, and I hope they might be helpful to anyone else in my shoes. I'm so sorry for what you're going through. It... is... the... worst... In my case, it's my own medicine. Tastes terrible. So hang in there, and remember who you are. I have a lot of work to do personally. At this point, I'm just glad to have a plan. Best wishes for everyone going through a divorce or separation. I hope we all find happiness.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Can you be more specific about what you say has been your poor treatment of her?

That would be helpful.

It sounds like you tended to approach things from a place of bullying in order to maintain control. Aa you're finding out, that only works if your partner is willing to fold you placate you and even then it only keeps them there. It doesn't grow the relationship.

It also sounds like in some ways you don't really see her as an independent being with her own needs..... the marriage has been about getting your needs met and that's it. Your reaction to her asking for space demonstrates that.. .. you once again tried the bullying card because you didn't want her to go.....her needs and feelings didn't enter into it. 

Except that this time your bluff was called.

I'd suggest you get some counseling to deal with your anger and control issues. The control you think you get from bullying is an illusion......well I guess it might work if your goal is to simply confine someone who can't stand you. 

But if you want a loving partner who happily tends to your needs you have to reciprocate. Counseling might help you to learn to do this. 

If you can accomplish this then her leaving might end up being a good thing for you. Do you like the person you've been? The good news is that you can improve yourself, and with your wife there placating you there would be no motivation.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

You're an amazing person. Your entire character - who you were and what you thought and how you acted - instantaneously changed. You went from a raging, shallow person to a deeply pensive, gentle soul. Wow - maybe this should be a short story...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

YOu also need to go for IC to deal with your own issues and to become a better man.


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## jimmy mcgill (May 9, 2017)

Have you read anything on "Walk away wife"


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

This might help you, OP:

Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife


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## JBTX (May 4, 2017)

Leave her alone. It's only been five days. Do this and see if she starts making contact or coming around. Don't be too excited if she reaches out. Be indifferent.Make no contact. Go out with friends. Get counseling and don't tell her you're going. Don't ask her where she is. Don't tell her where you are or about your feelings. Make yourself a ghost and take care of yourself. If she insists on contacting you with more news you don't want to hear, be prepared to not lose your crap. 

It sounds stupid, but it will help you learn self control and strength and give her time to think without you hounding her. It can make things better. 

Be prepared to do this for a very long time. Months even. It's not that this will save your marriage. But it will in the long run help you both if you just back of and get some strength. I know it sucks. Been here. 


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## JBTX (May 4, 2017)

Go to this thread and read the post by EasyPartner about the 37 rules to live by. 

You are only days into this. You are a very wise man for coming to the site to get some direction. Wiser than I was. If you don't make changes now things can get way worse. They may become worse anyways, but this will help keep the roller coaster emotions at bay, help keep yourself together and allow her space. 

Just About Final...Now What??

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...ge.com/showthread.php?p=17860401&share_type=t


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

It is a sad fact of life that most women are genetically drawn to strong alpha males. I think the rules are that women are supposed to be the emotional gender and males are supposed to be stoic strong ones. I did not make the rules but I have had a lot of women in my lifetime who were into alpha males. In my generation it was a sign of weakness for a man to cry. Much different now as the lines between men and women are blurred when it comes to emotions. However, few women want to be married to an emotional mess. Seems that you did not seek out professional help when there was still a chance to save your marriage. The cat is out of the bag now and is very hard to get back. If she does not like living with you, living away from you is not likely to make her want to go back to you. It is rare that being away from someone you do not want to be with, makes you feel like you want to return to them. 

Perhaps you can find a good professional to see and after you make some progress, contact your wife to join you in therapy, assuming she has not found another man. That is your best route as far as I can see. Good luck and obviously you need professional help based on your own statements.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> Can you be more specific about what you say has been your poor treatment of her?
> 
> That would be helpful.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your words. I would say that is a fair assessment The answer is absolutely not. I wouldn't want to be with me either, and I guess that really embodies what I've realized over the last day. I wasn't always this way. I can't remember exactly when I lost sight of the right things to do, but I had a lot of trust issues from a previous marriage due to her being unfaithful even before we got married. My current wife hit me with some betrayals early on. I never got over any of that. 

To be more specific, I was mentally and emotionally abusive. If she didn't keep a promise to me, then I got angry. I had this notion in my head, that she'd have to make up for past mistakes. So, when there was an issue in the marriage that we agreed needed to be addressed, I took it more personal when she didn't do her part. I felt it was her place to earn my respect and admiration and prove she loved me. Things became repetitive. She wasn't carrying out any of our arrangements for a long time. I couldn't see that I wasn't giving her motivation to all that time. I didn't understand why, and I felt unwanted. So my issues just snowballed, and my hounding got worse and worse as well as more frequent. It took less and less to get me started, and I always related everything back to her actions in the past. Poor her, she was overwhelmed. She has always hated confrontation anyway. She didn't know how to fix it or tell me how she was feeling, and I probably wouldn't have listened if she did. She wanted to do her part, but I don't think she had come to terms with why she wasn't. I made her doubt herself and feel guilty all the time. It should have been obvious to me, that my actions wouldn't make anyone want to be with me. It's obvious now. She wasn't ever going to reciprocate when I was ignoring all of her needs. 

We did have some truly amazing times. We have been very happy in the past. There were some pretty uncanny things that happened bringing us together. After my first divorce, and a few bad relationships after. I finally found her. She made me feel all the confidence in the world. She's so pretty. She's smart. Funny. Genuine. Everything I could have asked for. She restored my belief that I could be happy again. I hadn't been that happy in my life. Things were amazing in the beginning and for quite some time. Then, I found her catching up with an old boyfriend and hiding it from me. All of those feelings came back, and I suddenly felt very insecure again. From there, I found her doing the same thing a few more times, and it just continued to amplify. I can't say that I was ever really the man she deserved from that point forward. Then the problem was just compounded when she began participating less and less in our marriage in general. I wish I would have put myself in her shoes. Thank you again for the advice.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You're an amazing person. Your entire character - who you were and what you thought and how you acted - instantaneously changed. You went from a raging, shallow person to a deeply pensive, gentle soul. Wow - maybe this should be a short story...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm under no illusions that I have ever been an amazing person. I have just figured out that I want to be a better man and appreciate what I have. I wish I would have learned that much sooner.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

jimmy mcgill said:


> Have you read anything on "Walk away wife"


I haven't, but I will look into it. I could use all the insight I can fathom.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

Thank you all for the words and advice. I appreciate the references too, it's helping me stay busy. I do plan on getting some counseling. I want to make sure that I don't fall back to my old ways. I know that they can only bring me unhappiness.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

LWH, I am very glad to read that you have had an awakening to your own issues. Please make sure you work on these, so that you can be a valuable partner to someone else in the future. 

As for your current wife, I will advise you as a woman who left a man just like you... let her go. If you care at all about her, you will stay backed off and let her go. I guarantee you she is done. She did the hardest thing that any of us who have dealt with an angry man could possibly do, and that is walk away. You have no idea the courage that took. So please show her respect and be as amicable about this ending as possible. I actually had to do it twice, because somehow I ended up married to another one after that. (working on that broken picker of mine!) And believe me, once we are done, we are DONE. And what you have read is 100% correct, the crying and begging only puts us off more and makes us run faster. 

Best of luck to you, I hope you find some peace.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Read the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s.

You need to find your center again; identify the principles that are important to you; to live your life by said principles; to root out fear from your day to day life.

Be the man you are called to be. This will help to make sure the right people stay in your life.

The aforementioned book will help with that tremendously.

Keep posting. Take care.


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## Joyfull (Apr 27, 2017)

lost_without_her said:


> Then, *I found her catching up with an old boyfriend and hiding it from me*. All of those feelings came back, and I suddenly felt very insecure again. From there, *I found her doing the same thing a few more times*, and it just continued to amplify.


Can you give more details about this?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Joyfull said:


> Can you give more details about this?




Yes exactly. 
Why do you assume her leaving you is your fault? 


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

lost_without_her said:


> Thanks for your words. I would say that is a fair assessment The answer is absolutely not. I wouldn't want to be with me either, and I guess that really embodies what I've realized over the last day. I wasn't always this way. I can't remember exactly when I lost sight of the right things to do, but I had a lot of trust issues from a previous marriage due to her being unfaithful even before we got married. My current wife hit me with some betrayals early on. I never got over any of that.
> 
> To be more specific, I was mentally and emotionally abusive. If she didn't keep a promise to me, then I got angry. I had this notion in my head, that she'd have to make up for past mistakes. So, when there was an issue in the marriage that we agreed needed to be addressed, I took it more personal when she didn't do her part. I felt it was her place to earn my respect and admiration and prove she loved me. Things became repetitive. She wasn't carrying out any of our arrangements for a long time. I couldn't see that I wasn't giving her motivation to all that time. I didn't understand why, and I felt unwanted. So my issues just snowballed, and my hounding got worse and worse as well as more frequent. It took less and less to get me started, and I always related everything back to her actions in the past. Poor her, she was overwhelmed. She has always hated confrontation anyway. She didn't know how to fix it or tell me how she was feeling, and I probably wouldn't have listened if she did. She wanted to do her part, but I don't think she had come to terms with why she wasn't. I made her doubt herself and feel guilty all the time. It should have been obvious to me, that my actions wouldn't make anyone want to be with me. It's obvious now. She wasn't ever going to reciprocate when I was ignoring all of her needs.
> 
> We did have some truly amazing times. We have been very happy in the past. There were some pretty uncanny things that happened bringing us together. After my first divorce, and a few bad relationships after. I finally found her. She made me feel all the confidence in the world. She's so pretty. She's smart. Funny. Genuine. Everything I could have asked for. She restored my belief that I could be happy again. I hadn't been that happy in my life. Things were amazing in the beginning and for quite some time. Then, I found her catching up with an old boyfriend and hiding it from me. All of those feelings came back, and I suddenly felt very insecure again. From there, I found her doing the same thing a few more times, and it just continued to amplify. I can't say that I was ever really the man she deserved from that point forward. Then the problem was just compounded when she began participating less and less in our marriage in general. I wish I would have put myself in her shoes. Thank you again for the advice.


I think yes you may have had your issues but her behavior was very questionable, stop beating yourself up about it. She should never have betrayed your trust the way she did. Take off the rose colored specs.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

Joyfull said:


> Can you give more details about this?



Well, one night we had quite a bit to drink. In all honestly, she doesn't handle alcohol well after a certain point. Sometimes when we would drink she would get these random mean spurts. She would do or say something completely out of place. I don't remember what she said exactly, but I remember that it was pretty hateful, and it made me mad. We fought for several minutes, and then she went to the couch. I stayed in my basement to cool off. About 4 am or so, I went upstairs. I was prepared to write it off, and wake her to go to bed. As I leaned over to wake her, her phone was laying on her chest, and a message popped up. It was from a strange number, and I felt it odd that she was getting a text at 4am. I woke her up, and asked her who she was talking to. "Nobody," she says. I of course objected and showed her the message notification. I asked again who she was talking to. Now, I don't know what possessed her to say what came next, but it was an obvious copout. She said she was talking to my x wife. She was still half asleep, still half drunk, and not thinking straight to tell a better lie. They pretty much hated each other and never talked. And, of course, I know my ex wife's phone number. That wasn't it. Once she came to and realized that she didn't have any way out of it, she admitted she was texting an old boyfriend. I was crushed, angry, and every other emotion. Ultimately, we moved on from this and we wrote it off to a drunken mistake. 

Since that time, we quit drinking. Drinking often led to problems for us. She went to rehab after she got divorced from a previous marriage. We quit drinking together for 5 years. We started up again socially a few months before this incident. Well, a couple months later I caught her exchanging photos with a guy. Crushed again. She has been married twice before. A couple years later, I caught her hiding outside huddled down by the door of our pole barn talking on the phone with her first husband. It was midnight. She claimed that she was just calling him to resolve an ongoing matter with her name still being on the house they owned together. We had taken some legal actions in order to get her name off of it, and it fell through, because he didn't complete the actions necessary on his end. He was a drunken diabetic. He was also terrible to her, but physically as well as mentally. He would wet the bed some nights when he was drunk, due to his diabetic status. He cheated on her and gave her chlamydia. He didn't tell her. By the time she realized something was wrong, it required surgical treatment. Her tubes were destroyed during the surgery. She was not able to have a baby, despite much effort with infertility treatments, AI, and invitro. We were never successful. She randomly had gotten pregnant a couple of times, and miscarried within the first few weeks each time. She despised that man for this. After we had tried to take action to get her name off of the house and failed, we decided we had no recourse. We agreed she would cut off contact with him. He had not payed the mortgage in several months, and foreclosure was imminent. It was unclear is the bank would pursue my wife in the event they had a loss after resale. 

So back to the point, this is when I found her at midnight, hiding, and talking to him on the phone, and it was several months after we agreed to cut contact. Now, I still feel to this day that she didn't have bad intentions in this example. I don't really think she could ever think of him like that again. I don't really buy that she was calling to talk to him about the house at midnight, but I can't imagine what. Maybe she really got a wild hair about the house, but it was very random. We hadn't stressed it in some time. It was going to be several months before the foreclosure was final. And it was the fact that she hid to call him. That really bothered me. 

After that, for a few years, there were no incidents like that. We were starting to have a host of other more common problems. Dwindling sexlife. She was always on her phone 24/7. Work was stressful.. etc. I was much more bearable back then, but by the third time, I was really having trust issues with her. I was much more tolerant back then, and we usually fought for a few days and got along for a few weeks or more. Then, there was another texting issue. Similar thing. I became less tolerant. From there on out, most of our arguments centered around our sexlife. I am a very sexual person, and I tend to want it often. She used to be the same, but after our issues came to be, and considering life factors as well, she backed off sexually. This went on for a long time, and we would fight about it more and more often. I felt unwanted. I didn't trust her. I felt undesirable. The more common issues got even more amplified, and the fights got louder and more verbally abusive. Mainly on my part. Very rarely did she call me a name or say something with intentions to hurt me. That being said, she never really made the efforts we agreed upon to be more proactive in our sexlife. We fought about that at least once a week up until the separation. It's what we were fighting about that triggered all of the events leading to separation. About 5 months ago, I caught her sending messages and deleting them. She didn't see me behind her, I was walking up to get my keys from the desk. I looked at the deleted messages later. They were fairly innocent, but she had been talking to some guy. I didn't know him. I have been angry about that ever since. We fought very often the last several months up to the point she left. 

That was all very hard for me to swallow. I never really knew how to get over those things. For the biggest part, after the first incidents and before the most recent one, we went many years without any texting issues, but in that time I developed my anger issues. By the time the most recent incident occurred, looking back, I can't say that it's hard to understand why. By then, I had done a lot of damage. Last Friday was the last straw. She was willing to work it out up until that day. I'm having a very difficult time accepting that. I really hoped that this one incident couldn't undue that much time together, but it was just her limit. What a difference a day can make. We actually have had a handful of fights that were considerably worse than this one. I have a hard time with that too. We worked through worse, I just want to work through this with my renewed vision and sense of love for her to show her, and myself, that it can be different. Today is the first day we have gone all day without talking at all. I'm gutting it out, but it's pretty rough. I've committed to leaving her alone, and I hope she is finding peace.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

OP, stop blaming yourself. It looks like she behaved pretty poorly in the marriage, too. You were bad, but she wasn't an angel, either. You both broke it.

Learn from your mistakes. Grow from this. Become a better person.


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## JBTX (May 4, 2017)

Ok dude. As a lot of people that have been reading your posts have speculated, your wife is more than likely having an affair. I mean there is a history of her going behind your back and communicating with other guys. 

I know several women (not on the internet) that have walked out on their husbands. All of them were having an affair of some sort or the other. I even know a woman that was physically abused by her first husband and she did not walk out until she was having an affair. My wife and I never even talked about separation. Then one day she left out of the blue. Guess what? She was having an affair with my best friend. 

I'm not justifying any type of abuse. But this is typical behavior. In your situation, there is a deep seeded history of her going behind your back and communicating with other men.

Listen to me right now. You are blaming yourself for her leaving. YOU DID NOT MAKE THAT CHOICE. Apparently, you realize that you contributed to it. However at the end of the day you did not make the choice for her to leave. She did. Stop blaming yourself for that decision. It wasn't yours. And don't go blaming her about it. Just make yourself scarce and start working on YOU. 

Detach. Read up on the 180. You two do not have kids together, since she can't have children anymore. That's awesome. You need to get as far away from her as possible. 

You need to do this for YOU. Not for your marriage.


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## JBTX (May 4, 2017)

And one more thing. When you detach and make yourself a ghost.... If she notices this and comes around trying to have sex with you, tell her to get lost. In fact you shouldn't even be having enough communication with her to even get to this point since there is no connection like children. 


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> OP, stop blaming yourself. It looks like she behaved pretty poorly in the marriage, too. You were bad, but she wasn't an angel, either. You both broke it.
> 
> Learn from your mistakes. Grow from this. Become a better person.


Thanks for the words. She has definitely contributed to our problems as well, no question. Many of my complaints were valid. Where I do take all of the blame is on this incident. Everything about it was my fault. That's a tough one, since it's the one that did her in. For much of the time, I feel as if my abuse prevented her from caring much about meeting my needs. I don't want to be around mean people, and I'm sure she didn't either. I threatened her with divorce a handful of times. I never meant that either, but be careful what you wish for. I know exactly how she felt now in many ways. There's no way I could be with her if she treated me the way she is treating me now, which is the only the way I treated her more or less. That being said, I haven't forgotten her role in the big picture. I just think I have punished her more than enough. One thing is for certain. I definitely plan on growing as a person and becoming a better man, regardless of the outcome with my wife. Thanks again.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

JBTX said:


> Ok dude. As a lot of people that have been reading your posts have speculated, your wife is more than likely having an affair. I mean there is a history of her going behind your back and communicating with other guys.
> 
> I know several women (not on the internet) that have walked out on their husbands. All of them were having an affair of some sort or the other. I even know a woman that was physically abused by her first husband and she did not walk out until she was having an affair. My wife and I never even talked about separation. Then one day she left out of the blue. Guess what? She was having an affair with my best friend.
> 
> ...


Believe me, the thought has crossed my mind. Thing is, how could I blame her? I spent a lot of our life thinking she might be having an affair. I accused her at times, when I really didn't have any proof. My friend's grandparents have been married for 55 years. They actually separated for 2 years somewhere in the middle. He had stepped out and had an ongoing affair. They reconciled and have been the happiest couple ever since. Affairs don't have to be the end. So ultimately, I'm willing to forgive it. I was never able to truly forgive her for the times she betrayed my trust before. I think it's about time I learn to forgive. Maybe it's just temporary because of my shock, but I don't have any anger in my heart now. It's actually very relieving in a way. I can't remember the last time I didn't have any anger. Even if it does come back, I'll be better equipped to handle it. And honestly, I don't really think she is. Her heart is pretty closed off. I was her third husband. I think she has just plain had enough. We just moved 1000 miles away from our home state to a major city. We don't know anyone out here. That really doesn't mean anything, but I just doubt that she's latched on to a stranger in the 8 months we've been here together. Maybe though. I don't know when. I took her to work and picked her up. We sold my truck to finance our move, and we got her the car out here. She works with all women. We spent all of our time off together at home or out and about around the city. But anyway, it doesn't much matter now. Chances are, she's not coming back. If she's willing, then I'm willing to try. I need to know how it could be if I treated her right, regardless of what she does. I feel like I can't ever let anyone take me out of my true character again. And you're right, I have to do it for me, not just the marriage. Mostly for me. If not, I'm going to end up alone regardless. Much appreciate the ear and advice. It will be as simple as a divorce gets. Independent mediator hopefully. Much cheaper here. Still hoping it doesn't come to that, albeit a tiny hope. Thanks again.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Are you for real? How could you blame her?!?

Look, you have your share of baggage. However, hear me out.

Your marriage was broken...got it. But instead of leaving you, she chose to cheat on you. And here you are, ready to forgive as you are wallowing in your own guilt. If you two manage to reconcile without holding both you AND her accountable for your misdeeds, you will be back here in another year complaining that she is talking to yet another man online.

You are so desperately​ thirsty that you are willing to drink sand because the mirage made it look like water. 

Think about that.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Are you for real? How could you blame her?!?
> 
> Look, you have your share of baggage. However, hear me out.
> 
> ...


I hear you. You could be right. But that also depends on exactly what you consider cheating. I don't have any actual reason to believe she actually ever met anyone in person. Are some text messages and a photo exchange really worth giving up on a marriage? I mean, of course, I consider it cheating to some degree. She does not disagree. It's a betrayal of trust regardless. But, is it unforgivable? Is it worth sticking around and making her pay for it forever? I should have left then if that was the case. By choosing to stay, I was really kind of obligated to forgive her within a reasonable time and move forward, but I didn't. If I couldn't forgive her, then I don't know how she could forgive herself or please me. It just wasn't fair. If I had treated her right and she still persisted I would feel differently. That's just the missing piece of the puzzle for me. I don't think I would be able to be with her if I had any evidence of her actually stepping out on me back then. I know I wouldn't. It's a thin line, but it's just not worth all of the good interactions we share. When we're getting along, we're a pretty fantastic couple. I just don't want my grudges to be responsible. If she comes back, I give it my all, and she doesn't respond to my efforts ever, then I can move on knowing that there wasn't anything I could do to save it at this point. Nonetheless, I'm fairly sure that I'm not going to have to worry about that. Mostly, I'm just focused on myself and getting back to the man I was before. If she, or anyone else in the future, is going to give me a chance, it's going to be because I'm back to my old confident self. I just don't have any room in my heart anymore for the anger and jealousy. I don't want to drink the sand, I just want to make sure I'm not passing up on wine. If I'm wrong and get a little sand in my mouth, it will suck, but I'll get over it. I feel like I would have a much easier time moving on at that point. Maybe not though. You might just be right. Tim will tell, and I will keep you posted.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I would opine that the only thing worse than losing your is sharing her. 

That is exactly what you were doing.

That doesn't mean that you permanently throw her away, but it does mean you take her of the pedestal of idealization in order to see that she is every bit as broken as you.

Ignore it at your own peril.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

lost_without_her said:


> Well, one night we had quite a bit to drink. In all honestly, she doesn't handle alcohol well after a certain point. Sometimes when we would drink she would get these random mean spurts. She would do or say something completely out of place. I don't remember what she said exactly, but I remember that it was pretty hateful, and it made me mad. We fought for several minutes, and then she went to the couch. I stayed in my basement to cool off. About 4 am or so, I went upstairs. I was prepared to write it off, and wake her to go to bed. As I leaned over to wake her, her phone was laying on her chest, and a message popped up. It was from a strange number, and I felt it odd that she was getting a text at 4am. I woke her up, and asked her who she was talking to. "Nobody," she says. I of course objected and showed her the message notification. I asked again who she was talking to. Now, I don't know what possessed her to say what came next, but it was an obvious copout. She said she was talking to my x wife. She was still half asleep, still half drunk, and not thinking straight to tell a better lie. They pretty much hated each other and never talked. And, of course, I know my ex wife's phone number. That wasn't it. Once she came to and realized that she didn't have any way out of it, she admitted she was texting an old boyfriend. I was crushed, angry, and every other emotion. Ultimately, we moved on from this and we wrote it off to a drunken mistake.
> 
> Since that time, we quit drinking. Drinking often led to problems for us. She went to rehab after she got divorced from a previous marriage. We quit drinking together for 5 years. We started up again socially a few months before this incident. Well, a couple months later I caught her exchanging photos with a guy. Crushed again. She has been married twice before. A couple years later, I caught her hiding outside huddled down by the door of our pole barn talking on the phone with her first husband. It was midnight. She claimed that she was just calling him to resolve an ongoing matter with her name still being on the house they owned together. We had taken some legal actions in order to get her name off of it, and it fell through, because he didn't complete the actions necessary on his end. He was a drunken diabetic. He was also terrible to her, but physically as well as mentally. He would wet the bed some nights when he was drunk, due to his diabetic status. He cheated on her and gave her chlamydia. He didn't tell her. By the time she realized something was wrong, it required surgical treatment. Her tubes were destroyed during the surgery. She was not able to have a baby, despite much effort with infertility treatments, AI, and invitro. We were never successful. She randomly had gotten pregnant a couple of times, and miscarried within the first few weeks each time. She despised that man for this. After we had tried to take action to get her name off of the house and failed, we decided we had no recourse. We agreed she would cut off contact with him. He had not payed the mortgage in several months, and foreclosure was imminent. It was unclear is the bank would pursue my wife in the event they had a loss after resale.
> 
> ...


i know as your name suggests you are 'lost without her' but honestly she has been emotionally abusing you since nearly the beginning with her texting exes and other guys. She didn't have any consequences so thinks you are in the wrong for your reaction to her. YOur reaction is perfectly normal, it is normal to distrust someone who shows you who they really are, and of course with diminished sex (probably your love language) you distrust her even more and feel rejected by her. Your wife has major issues from her past and sounds like a serial cheater to be honest. Most alcoholics (she still is though she might be a dry drunk) have serious problems with boundaries. Instead of wanting to woo her back or have that drama in your life painful as it sounds you must

1. Do the 180 on her
2. Contact a lawyer and draw up divorce papers, give her what she wants as she is trying to shut you down and not come clean about her behavior and instead blame you. YOu may have handled things better but boy she has a lot to answer for .
3. Go and see an IC to understand why you would let your wife (or any woman) treat you like this, you need to find your cajones and stop taking this crap from her.

I think if you do move on you will be much happier in the end, there are plenty of decent women who will not treat you like this, this is basically cheating.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

It's not a foregone conclusion that a person who is treated poorly is going to find comfort elsewhere. It doesn't make it right, but it's not uncommon...

So, to others' points, you both made mistakes and poor choices. Hopefully your introspection will teach you better for the future.

Let her go. She wants to be done. Learn from the experience.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Looking at your own hand in your troubles shows leadership, OP. I commend you for that. 

That said, anyone who has been divorced twice looks like a high risk partner to me. 

Thing is, you may shortly be in that group yourself.

So, all things considered, I would recommend continuing to look at your own hand in your troubles and make some fundamental changes in how you treat any future woman. 

If your current wife does want to work on things, you will both likely need to go to counseling and learn new, healthy ways of handling conflict. 

Expecting a woman to earn your trust is the opposite of what I would recommend. That is your job, in my view. 

She needs to understand that no matter how unloved she feels, turning to an old flame is not the way to resolve conflict. It is just going to create new conflict.

Did you take a look at the link I posted? Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife

Don't let the religious tone scare you off. There is a lot of empowering info in there. And it sounds like you are self aware enough to hear it.

Good luck, OP. If you continue to be rigorously honest with yourself, and own the mistakes you not only made, but contributed to in your marriage, I think you can salvage your future. And that can only benefit you.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Thanks for sharing more details..... they did change the picture.

You both came into this with baggage, which everyone with a past does. She was already paying for the sins of your ex when she decided to talk to her ex and other men.

It's not clear to me what you guys did to move past it, but moving past behavior like this requires a couple of things: 

You outline what you need from her and she complies..... provided of course what you need is reasonable.

You cannot abuse her.

If you can't outline what you need, the relationship will fail.

If she refuses to comply with reasonable boundaries, the relationship will fail.

If you can't move forward without abusing her, the relationship will fail.

Abuse and bullying was your attempt to deal with her actions. Kind of understandable, but ultimately ineffective.

It's clear to me that this relationship is toxic. If you don't have kids I'd consider moving on.

Focus on yourself and your own issues, since you only control yourself.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

jld said:


> Looking at your own hand in your troubles shows leadership, OP. I commend you for that.
> 
> That said, anyone who has been divorced twice looks like a high risk partner to me.
> 
> ...


Thank you. That all seems like good advice. I'm definitely trying to be completely honest with myself. I want a real resolution one way or the other that ends in a happy life. Whatever that might mean. I read the link you sent me this morning, and it was really very inspiring. I have written my "letter of reconciliation." I'm not sure exactly when I should send it, since she wants to be left alone? Yesterday was the first day we went 24 hours without any contact. We haven't really had much contact in the 5 days she's been gone, but that was the first day there was none. Today is day 2. I don't want her to think I'm crashing her space. Anyway, my letter is prepared and I'm going to give it to her when it's appropriate. Thanks again for the resource. It made a lot of sense.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> Thanks for sharing more details..... they did change the picture.
> 
> You both came into this with baggage, which everyone with a past does. She was already paying for the sins of your ex when she decided to talk to her ex and other men.
> 
> ...


If only I had not abused her. I had no problems outlining what I needed, and I think it was pretty reasonable. Mostly, I just needed to see her making an effort to participate in our marriage and show interest. And of course, to not do it again. She didn't comply. We failed there. But again, my abuse had a lot to do with that. So I failed on step 3. Definitely, completely ineffective. I would agree that it has been a toxic relationship. We don't have a child together, but she has an extremely close bond with my son. A divorce will be simple, but that is one of the dynamics that is making it hard for me to move on. They truly adore each other. I've not only lost her, I've taken her away from my son. They ill continue to be in each other's lives, but of course it just won't be quite the same for him. I'm so angry at myself, and I know he will harbor some resentment as well. They were two peas in a pod and did everything together. I will make sure he doesn't go without getting that attention from me of course, but I just won't ever be able to replace the special relationship they have had. Its another reason that I feel so strongly it's worth a try. I know it can't be just for his sake, but I feel that it should reinforce any doubt she might have about leaving. We'd better be sure that we mean this if we're going to devastate him. Nonetheless, you're right. I have to focus on myself and that's really my only choice. Hopefully, I'm making some good progress. It will be better when I can get out. She took the new care and I got the grocery getter. I have a new car lined up, but it's getting some work and won't be ready until next week.. go figure. I just want to drive to the mountains. Once I get out of the house more, I think I'll start to feel better about myself. I hope.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

lost_without_her said:


> If only I had not abused her. I had no problems outlining what I needed, and I think it was pretty reasonable. Mostly, I just needed to see her making an effort to participate in our marriage and show interest. And of course, to not do it again. She didn't comply. We failed there. But again, my abuse had a lot to do with that. So I failed on step 3. Definitely, completely ineffective. I would agree that it has been a toxic relationship. We don't have a child together, but she has an extremely close bond with my son. A divorce will be simple, but that is one of the dynamics that is making it hard for me to move on. They truly adore each other. I've not only lost her, I've taken her away from my son. They ill continue to be in each other's lives, but of course it just won't be quite the same for him. I'm so angry at myself, and I know he will harbor some resentment as well. They were two peas in a pod and did everything together. I will make sure he doesn't go without getting that attention from me of course, but I just won't ever be able to replace the special relationship they have had. Its another reason that I feel so strongly it's worth a try. I know it can't be just for his sake, but I feel that it should reinforce any doubt she might have about leaving. We'd better be sure that we mean this if we're going to devastate him. Nonetheless, you're right. I have to focus on myself and that's really my only choice. Hopefully, I'm making some good progress. It will be better when I can get out. She took the new care and I got the grocery getter. I have a new car lined up, but it's getting some work and won't be ready until next week.. go figure. I just want to drive to the mountains. Once I get out of the house more, I think I'll start to feel better about myself. I hope.


When you mention "abuse", what do you mean by that? Do you have an example?
Expecting your partner to participate in your marriage is hardly something I would call abuse.
I think some people might find it hard to distinguish between the need for self-flagellation and fact. Some specific situations might be helpful and then perhaps let others help you reach a conclusion or solution.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lost_without_her said:


> I haven't, but I will look into it. I could use all the insight I can fathom.


The Walk-away Wife Syndrome


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ok so I am seeing a different picture after reading your last few posts. She was a cheater. You dont seem to want to label her as such, but she was/is. You were both out of line with your behavior. And I am going to be honest, you sound like you will be better off without each other. A relationship should not be this much work, and filled with this much angst. Divorce her and keep working on your anger issues. Some day you can find someone who you can live a peaceful life and who WONT cheat on you.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> When you mention "abuse", what do you mean by that? Do you have an example?
> Expecting your partner to participate in your marriage is hardly something I would call abuse.
> I think some people might find it hard to distinguish between the need for self-flagellation and fact. Some specific situations might be helpful and then perhaps let others help you reach a conclusion or solution.


I was verbally and mentally abusive. Raising my voice, screaming, calling names, keeping score, threatening divorce myself several times. All of my methods were completely counterproductive to any mutually satisfying outcome. It's not always what I expected, it's more about how I presented my case with such anger. I don't think it was fair to me to expect her to meet my expectations, when not only was she not getting hers met, but I was hurting her more each time I demanded that she do something. My needs weren't unreasonable. My unrelenting and overbearing need to express them in an unhealthy way was. I hope that helps to clarify. Thank you.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> The Walk-away Wife Syndrome



Very good read. I hope maybe she has seen this. Although, she never really nagged me ever. She was so easy going. Still, the same principle applies, just a few different circumstances. I sure hope that she is at least thinking to herself that it might be worth another try. Thanks!


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

lost_without_her said:


> I was verbally and mentally abusive. Raising my voice, screaming, calling names, keeping score, threatening divorce myself several times. All of my methods were completely counterproductive to any mutually satisfying outcome. It's not always what I expected, it's more about how I presented my case with such anger. I don't think it was fair to me to expect her to meet my expectations, when not only was she not getting hers met, but I was hurting her more each time I demanded that she do something. My needs weren't unreasonable. My unrelenting and overbearing need to express them in an unhealthy way was. I hope that helps to clarify. Thank you.




Screaming in response to what? What did you want to happen/achieve?
Or did you scream out of the blue? 
Two things that stand out for me here: she had secret communications with another man (men?) and she did not care/want to or participate in your marriage.
Do you think it happened in response to your screaming or did the screaming start after this realisation?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> Ok so I am seeing a different picture after reading your last few posts. She was a cheater. You dont seem to want to label her as such, but she was/is. You were both out of line with your behavior. And I am going to be honest, you sound like you will be better off without each other. A relationship should not be this much work, and filled with this much angst. Divorce her and keep working on your anger issues. Some day you can find someone who you can live a peaceful life and who WONT cheat on you.



It's not that I don't want to call it what it is. It's that I've already drilled that into her head. I just am trying to learn to let go of things. She definitely doesn't need me to tell her anymore what a lying cheater she is. She has been well versed by me over the years. And, I think there's a high percentage chance you are right. In all honesty, she deserves better than she got, and so do I. I'm fully prepared to accept that this may be the case, but it's not what my heart wants. I'm unsatisfied, meaning I am not convinced that we couldn't be a very happy couple if I acted right. I just need to know that I gave it my everything. I don't want to wonder, I want to know for certain. If given the opportunity, I will be the man I pledged to be. If she does not change, then I will take pride in being a bigger person who can refrain from abusing her and step away if that's what has to happen. It may not even matter. I think my odds of getting that chance are probably less than 1%. Your advice is solid either way. I've got to work on me. It's the only way I'll ever have success in my relationships, no matter what anyone else does. Thanks.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Ok. Some people just don't get along or fall out of love. It may nothing to do with you and it may nothing to do with her. If there are some lessons you think you can learn, learn them. But don't blame yourself for her choice to leave you (or cheat on you - it's not clear what happened there). **** happens.
You will find happiness with someone else.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> Ok. Some people just don't get along or fall out of love. It may nothing to do with you and it may nothing to do with her. If there are some lessons you think you can learn, learn them. But don't blame yourself for her choice to leave you (or cheat on you - it's not clear what happened there). **** happens.
> You will find happiness with someone else.


I don't know, I don't think that's entirely fair. Definitely we both share in the blame, but as for her leaving, I do take a great deal of responsibility for it. I'm not sure if I elaborated in my op, but she never had any plans to go anywhere until I brought it up. She had decided that she wasn't sure if she wanted to be with me, and then I told her initially that if she decided the answer was no, then she would have to go stay with a friend or find another place. Well, she took it a little differently than I intended and said she would just go stay with a friend that day. This was Friday. At that point, I clarified my comment to say that I only meant in the event she came to the conclusion the answer was no. I asked her if that was the case.. she said no, she just needed space. At that moment, I hadn't quite pushed her all the way over the edge. My reaction at that moment was deciding to tell her that if she left she was not welcome back. I said it repeatedly with every time she begged me to consider just working it out with a separation. She begged for even just a day or the weekend. So you see, I had a choice. And actually, if I'd have just stopped right then and there and accommodated her, then the separation may have had the same effects on me realizing my terrible ways, without the impeding doom of almost certainly ending with a divorce that I don't want. I don't think I'll be able to see it differently, but I do recognize that people make it through a lot worse. I have seen people forgive worse mistakes and more of them. I just wish she could forgive me for this one. I feel like one more try couldn't hurt, considering all we have together and all we are walking away from. What's one more try? I feel like we don't really have anything else to lose, but maybe I'm wrong. Still hoping for the chance. Thanks again.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

No. She had a choice. She had a choice not to leave you. She had a choice to work on your marriage and she had a choice not to engage with other men. If someone is set to leave, they'll find an excuse to leave.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lost_without_her said:


> I don't know, I don't think that's entirely fair. Definitely we both share in the blame, but *as for her leaving, I do take a great deal of responsibility for it. I'm not sure if I elaborated in my op, but she never had any plans to go anywhere until I brought it up.* She had decided that she wasn't sure if she wanted to be with me, and then I told her initially that if she decided the answer was no, then she would have to go stay with a friend or find another place. Well, she took it a little differently than I intended and said she would just go stay with a friend that day. This was Friday. At that point, I clarified my comment to say that I only meant in the event she came to the conclusion the answer was no. I asked her if that was the case.. she said no, she just needed space. At that moment, I hadn't quite pushed her all the way over the edge. My reaction at that moment was deciding to tell her that if she left she was not welcome back. I said it repeatedly with every time she begged me to consider just working it out with a separation. She begged for even just a day or the weekend. So you see, I had a choice. And actually, if I'd have just stopped right then and there and accommodated her, then the separation may have had the same effects on me realizing my terrible ways, without the impeding doom of almost certainly ending with a divorce that I don't want. I don't think I'll be able to see it differently, but I do recognize that people make it through a lot worse. I have seen people forgive worse mistakes and more of them.* I just wish she could forgive me for this one. I feel like one more try couldn't hurt, considering all we have together and all we are walking away from. *What's one more try? I feel like we don't really have anything else to lose, but maybe I'm wrong. Still hoping for the chance. Thanks again.


Are these things in your letter?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

lost_without_her said:


> It's not that I don't want to call it what it is. It's that I've already drilled that into her head. I just am trying to learn to let go of things. She definitely doesn't need me to tell her anymore what a lying cheater she is. She has been well versed by me over the years. And, I think there's a high percentage chance you are right. In all honesty, she deserves better than she got, and so do I. I'm fully prepared to accept that this may be the case, but it's not what my heart wants. I'm unsatisfied, meaning I am not convinced that we couldn't be a very happy couple if I acted right. I just need to know that I gave it my everything. I don't want to wonder, I want to know for certain. If given the opportunity, I will be the man I pledged to be. If she does not change, then I will take pride in being a bigger person who can refrain from abusing her and step away if that's what has to happen. It may not even matter. I think my odds of getting that chance are probably less than 1%. Your advice is solid either way. I've got to work on me. It's the only way I'll ever have success in my relationships, no matter what anyone else does. Thanks.


But see, here's the thing... when it comes to a partner cheating, the other partner isnt supposed to just "let it go." Both have to actively deal with what happened, and the cheater has to work on earning the betrayed's trust back. Its about working together to get through it. To just let it go is the same as rug sweeping. Its telling that she did this multiple times... she was not interested in making it work. Now, if that was due to not being able to deal with your anger issues, or if it was something else going on with her, SHE is the only one who knows that.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Poor muffin. She got caught cheating multiple times and then she got yelled at, called names, and threatened with divorce. Am I the only one here fairly sure OP doesn't know the half of what she's been up to over the years? 

OP, let her go and be happy she's taking her phone and her cheating ass off into the sunset.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> No. She had a choice. She had a choice not to leave you. She had a choice to work on your marriage and she had a choice not to engage with other men. If someone is set to leave, they'll und an excuse to leave.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She did have a choice as well. After the fact, but still a choice. I don't know how I can be mad that she didn't make the choice I wanted her to. I should have treated her right in the first place, and I should have expressed my real feelings on the issue. I've thought about it that way at times, that she was just waiting for the reason, but she had plenty of chances before this over the last several months. I just don't really have any indication that she was trying to do that. I still think you may be a little harsh about the cheating. The bulk of it was within a period of around 3 years near the beginning of our relationship and motivated by alcohol. The more recent incident wasn't cool, but it was also after we had drinks for the xmas holiday at 4am. She claims she didn't remember doing it the next day, and honestly, she probably didn't. She would sometimes get mad at me when we were drinking kind of randomly and have some choice comments for me before passing out. Maybe some repressed emotions or something, I dunno. But anyway, the next morning she wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about. It's not unusual for her. I just don't think those action warranted my response or giving up.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> But see, here's the thing... when it comes to a partner cheating, the other partner isnt supposed to just "let it go." Both have to actively deal with what happened, and the cheater has to work on earning the betrayed's trust back. Its about working together to get through it. To just let it go is the same as rug sweeping. Its telling that she did this multiple times... she was not interested in making it work. Now, if that was due to not being able to deal with your anger issues, or if it was something else going on with her, SHE is the only one who knows that.


I get that, to a point. I just took it way too far. I can't say I ever really gave her a real chance to make it up. I couldn't let go of my issue. You do have to move past it at some point, I believe. I also can't say she never made any effort. She did. I was too mad to appreciate it. People cheat when their needs aren't met. I wasn't meeting her needs, and furthermore I was neglecting her and depriving her of basic companionship. It just takes two if you ask me. You can't stay mad forever. I have always liked the idea that you never go to bed mad. I'd like to try and live by that religiously in the future. There's just too much I could and should have done.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> Poor muffin. She got caught cheating multiple times and then she got yelled at, called names, and threatened with divorce. Am I the only one here fairly sure OP doesn't know the half of what she's been up to over the years?
> 
> OP, let her go and be happy she's taking her phone and her cheating ass off into the sunset.


It's not that I don't think she ever had it coming, or never should have understood how I could have such emotions. She did. She never really blamed me, she just took the pain. She just finally took enough of it. And those actions are the last thing that are ever going to get you anywhere. Trust me, I've learned. It's not good to do at all, and certainly not for years. Guilty or not, I don't really know anyone who should or would want to take that. It's not lost on me that there may be things I don't know, but who wants to be paranoid? I have been at times, and it's not healthy. The truth usually comes out in one form or the other. She really didn't have very much opportunity to cheat. The first half of our lives we worked in the same department at the same company, and lived together. We were pretty inseparable. She just really hasn't had a lot of opportunities. I don't see any sense in proceeding as if something is true without evidence, but it's possible.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lost_without_her said:


> I get that, to a point. I just took it way too far. I can't say I ever really gave her a real chance to make it up. I couldn't let go of my issue. You do have to move past it at some point, I believe. I also can't say she never made any effort. She did. I was too mad to appreciate it. *People cheat when their needs aren't met.* I wasn't meeting her needs, and furthermore I was neglecting her and depriving her of basic companionship. It just takes two if you ask me. You can't stay mad forever. I have always liked the idea that you never go to bed mad. I'd like to try and live by that religiously in the future. There's just too much I could and should have done.


Totally agree.

But this is often too painful an idea for many exclusive (non-cheating) spouses to consider.

Your unwillingness to allow yourself to be talked into victimhood is remarkable, OP. And refreshing. I have lots of hope for your future.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

jld said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> But this is often too painful an idea for many exclusive (non-cheating) spouses to consider.
> 
> Your unwillingness to allow yourself to be talked into victimhood is remarkable, OP. And refreshing. I have lots of hope for your future.


When your needs arent being met, the solution isnt CHEATING. NO EXCUSES. Work it out or leave.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> When your needs arent being met, the solution isnt CHEATING. NO EXCUSES. Work it out or leave.


Have not seen anyone say that cheating is the answer, including the OP.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

lost_without_her said:


> She did have a choice as well. After the fact, but still a choice. I don't know how I can be mad that she didn't make the choice I wanted her to. I should have treated her right in the first place, and I should have expressed my real feelings on the issue. I've thought about it that way at times, that she was just waiting for the reason, but she had plenty of chances before this over the last several months. I just don't really have any indication that she was trying to do that. *I still think you may be a little harsh about the cheating. The bulk of it was within a period of around 3 years near the beginning of our relationship and motivated by alcohol. The more recent incident wasn't cool, but it was also after we had drinks for the xmas holiday at 4am. She claims she didn't remember doing it the next day, and honestly, she probably didn't.* She would sometimes get mad at me when we were drinking kind of randomly and have some choice comments for me before passing out. Maybe some repressed emotions or something, I dunno. But anyway, the next morning she wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about. It's not unusual for her. I just don't think those action warranted my response or giving up.


Are you for real here? You didn't give up. She gave up on your marriage a looong time ago it seems. You need to get yourself out of whatever fog you have found yourself in. You need to get up, dust yourself off (so to speak) and move on. Post on CWI. There are people who can advise you properly how to deal with this crap.

Btw this whole abuse business: someone who truly abuses a spouse (emotionally or physically), does not usually realise that they are doing it and justify their actions or blame their spouse. The probability is tiny that someone will actually post on a forum and experience remorse that they are being abusive. In their eyes, it's the spouse's fault.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

He also admitted that it is his fault that his wife is cheating on him. 
I'm not saying btw that I know for a fact that he wasn't abusive nor that it's not possible that he wasn't abusive, I'm talking about probabilities here: that most abusive spouses are not likely to either feel or admit that they are being abusive. There are always exceptions.
I asked what he did that made him feel he was being abusive and he hasn't provided any examples apart from mentioning getting infuriated that he was the only one giving a crap about their marriage.
I'm happy to stand corrected.

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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Miss Independent said:


> My ex was emotionally and verbally abusive. He admitted to being abusive yet he couldn't stop.
> 
> It's possible that op was abusive towards his wife. Jeez, he admitted to abusing yet his assessment is wrong?


That happens on TAM a lot. No matter what a guy admits to there is a subset of posters who will insist he can't really be that bad.


And if there's a hint of cheating by the wife he's elevated to sainthood.

Except that encouraging victimhood generally doesn't benefit a poster.

I think this OP will be ok..... he's strong and reflective. He'll improve himself and be a good partner for someone.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> That happens on TAM a lot. No matter what a guy admits to there is a subset of posters who will insist he can't really be that bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Far from it. My philosophy is to strip the post from hyperbole emotion and start with the facts first. If you can point out where he gives examples HOW he abused his wife, I'm perfectly happy to revise my view.
I personally think it is rather irresponsible giving advice based on the emotion of the post, rather than facts. Especially when the poster has just been dumped and the emotions are all over the place.



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

This article is relevant:

http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/inside-mind-of-abuser.html?m=1

Redefining
The abuser will often redefine situations to blame others for his troubles. *Abusers will seldom admit that they are wrong, or for that matter, less than perfect. It’s always someone else’s fault when they act inappropriately.*

Assuming
An abuser’s thought patterns lead them to believe that they know what others, including their victim, is feeling and thinking. They use this warped logic to blame these people for their behavior. For instance, an abuser might say, “I knew you’d be angry about that, so I went for a few drinks after work to enjoy myself. Why should I come home to listen to you nag?”


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

@inmyprime



lost_without_her said:


> To be more specific, I was mentally and emotionally abusive. *If she didn't keep a promise to me, then I got angry. I had this notion in my head, that she'd have to make up for past mistakes.* So, when there was an issue in the marriage that we agreed needed to be addressed, I took it more personal when she didn't do her part. I felt it was her place to earn my respect and admiration and prove she loved me. Things became repetitive. She wasn't carrying out any of our arrangements for a long time. I couldn't see that I wasn't giving her motivation to all that time. I didn't understand why, and I felt unwanted. So my issues just snowballed, and *my hounding got worse and worse as well as more frequent. It took less and less to get me started, and I always related everything back to her actions in the past*. Poor her, she was overwhelmed. She has always hated confrontation anyway. *She didn't know how to fix it or tell me how she was feeling, and I probably wouldn't have listened if she did. *She wanted to do her part, but I don't think she had come to terms with why she wasn't. *I made her doubt herself and feel guilty all the time.* It should have been obvious to me, that my actions wouldn't make anyone want to be with me. It's obvious now. *She wasn't ever going to reciprocate when I was ignoring all of her needs*.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

@inmyprime

He gave you these examples earlier. Did you not see this post?



lost_without_her said:


> I was verbally and mentally abusive. *Raising my voice, screaming, calling names, keeping score, threatening divorce myself several times. *All of my methods were completely counterproductive to any mutually satisfying outcome. It's not always what I expected, *it's more about how I presented my case with such anger.* I don't think it was fair to me to expect her to meet my expectations, when not only was she not getting hers met, but *I was hurting her more each time I demanded that she do something*. My needs weren't unreasonable. *My unrelenting and overbearing need to express them in an unhealthy way was.* I hope that helps to clarify. Thank you.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

lost_without_her said:


> She did have a choice as well. After the fact, but still a choice. I don't know how I can be mad that she didn't make the choice I wanted her to. I should have treated her right in the first place, and I should have expressed my real feelings on the issue. I've thought about it that way at times, that she was just waiting for the reason, but she had plenty of chances before this over the last several months. I just don't really have any indication that she was trying to do that. I still think you may be a little harsh about the cheating. The bulk of it was within a period of around 3 years near the beginning of our relationship and motivated by alcohol. The more recent incident wasn't cool, but it was also after we had drinks for the xmas holiday at 4am. She claims she didn't remember doing it the next day, and honestly, she probably didn't. She would sometimes get mad at me when we were drinking kind of randomly and have some choice comments for me before passing out. Maybe some repressed emotions or something, I dunno. But anyway, the next morning she wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about. It's not unusual for her. I just don't think those action warranted my response or giving up.


There are a few issues here which are being mixed up

1. Your wife abuses/abused alcohol, throw that into the mix and no marriage can function properly. That is a huge problem in itself because it causes co-dependency, breaking of boundaries, etc. In turn she abused you, that is the bottom line

2. She cheated, there is no other way to sugar coat it. What caused her to cheat, alcohol, poor boundaries, selfishness, etc is irrelevant, she CHEATED and was never really held to account.

3. You responded to the cheating with anger, totally understandable but then there comes a time when you have to be constructive, demand transparency, implement consequences, none of this happened which is unfortunate because your w was able to use it against you

4. Now she has turned this all around on you and you seem to be the bad guy although the elephant in the room is her cheating the reason for your (unreasonable) behaviour.

I am sorry this is happening but you need to let your w go and focus on yourself, go for therapy, go to the gym, build yourself up, discover why you reacted the way you did (I can understand it) and come up with better strategies for handling these types of scenarios in future. Leave your wife be for the moment.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

jld said:


> @inmyprime
> 
> 
> 
> He gave you these examples earlier. Did you not see this post?




Yes I saw them. I'm pretty sure if my wife told me she was cheating on me (either due to alcohol or not) and explicitly told me that she didn't care about the marriage anymore, I would also have raised my voice and sounded angry. Would you not? I would also possibly blame myself too at first. It seems to me like a normal reaction for someone who hasn't experienced it before or hasn't been on TAM.

But ok. I feel I'm on thin ice here: as soon as the word 'abuse' is mentioned, alarm bells are ringing above any other content. Plus I don't think it's a good idea for me to disagree with a moderator. So I will humbly step away from this topic.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Disagreeing with a moderator about topics unrelated to rules enforcement is perfectly acceptable. We are posters as well as moderators.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> This article is relevant:
> 
> Sanctuary for the Abused: Inside the Mind of an Abuser
> 
> ...


There is no question in my mind that I was abusive. Yelling on someone's face for years is a abusive. Don't you think? I don't think anyone is emotionally and mentally equipped to deal with that regularly for years. What good ever came out of calling someone a name really? What good comes from refusing to give someone space when they're not thinking rationally? So many times we spent all day fighting until we were so angry at each other we couldn't think straight. I was always the one who insisted we keep going until I was basically to the point of lecturing her about how terrible she was while she sat there with her head down stressed to tears. No matter what you mistakes are in life, I don't see how that's ever the solution. It could never be effective or healthy IMO. 

A lot of you are hung up on my view of the cheating. I'm not trying to say that I wasn't also abused. I was. We abused each other. There is no excuse for it either. Alcohol is certainly no excuse in my mind, but it does very often tend to lend to stupid behavior. Never really had any serious issues while we were sober. That's a big reason we quit drinking at all several months ago once I found out about the most recent incident. I think some are sort of blurring it together as if she was just cheating the entire time. It really wasn't like that. The first time someone is unfaithful to you, then you make a decision to stay with them or not. She was very remorseful the first time this happened still very early in our relationship. She was willing to take any punishment from me in order to make an effort to reassure me that it wouldn't happen again. I decided to stay, but of course I didn't expect it to happen again, let alone several times. After the first time, over a year passed, and we grew very close. To me, the closer you become, the harder it becomes to walk away. So when that next incident came about, I couldn't leave. Same thing the next time, a considerable amount of time had passed, all the while I was becoming very comfortable with our life. I really loved her. The heart wants what it wants right? We then went many years with no incidents, and our fights centered around other things, and mostly about our sex life. 

Maybe I'm just too open minded, but she never had physical contact to my knowledge, and texting is much easier to forgive in my eyes. 
Things would be a lot different to me if she had physically stepped out on me. But even then, I can't say in all certainty that I wouldn't consider trying again. Balance and options. I think it's pretty rare that we find someone who we're really compatible with. Obviously, me only telling you about the bad times doesn't reflect that. When we are on, we fit like two pieces of a puzzle. We like so many of the same things and we never get annoyed around each other when we're together. I mentioned earlier, we worked together for 5 years and lived together during that time. Our personalities go well together. We never got tired of being around each other until I became consumed by my anger. Then I would go sit somewhere she wasn't and be mad at her for not coming to me. She never got tired of being around me until recently. She was always hopeful for us to do things together and just be together. One of your replies kind of seemed as if to suggest I should just always be so angry at her for what she did and never forgive her. Maybe there are those who can't forgive that, and I would understand that. I wasn't for a long time, until now really. But then you shouldn't stay. I don't feel the answer is to become abusive and stick around. I know that's not the answer now. It's asking for it. 

You mentioned the characteristics of a typical abuser according to the experts. I don't display those characteristics now, but I did then. I always found a way to blame her. I always found a way to justify my abuse. "It wasn't my fault." And as sure as I sit here these last 6 nights and confess my sins to you all, I don't want to be unrealistic. It's easy to be the nice guy when you get in trouble. I'm under no illusion that I won't ever struggle with anger going foreword if she were to stay. I think I have had a big awakening, but I expect to have to work to keep my present attitude going forward. I'm very confident that I can do it. I'm very confident that I have FINALLY let go of my issues with our past. I really don't feel any anger except towards myself. I'm working on that. If another incident occurred, or if my genuine efforts didn't lead to her equal participation, then my anger could return, but I will be better equipped to deal with it. I'm pledging to myself never to abuse anyone again like that. I was an angry person for a long time, and it's just not fun. I was sucking my own joy out of my life. My anger probably affected others as well. I wasn't fun to be around when I was mad. Anyway, I appreciate your perspective nonetheless and appreciate your time.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

"The first time someone is unfaithful to you..."

Yes you were abusive. To yourself. You can't force somebody to love you or care as much about something as you do.

I wish you well. You should learn lessons from this. Just make sure you learn the right lessons.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Miss Independent said:


> You're arguing a point that no one made.




The OP may have made that point.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

aine said:


> There are a few issues here which are being mixed up
> 
> 1. Your wife abuses/abused alcohol, throw that into the mix and no marriage can function properly. That is a huge problem in itself because it causes co-dependency, breaking of boundaries, etc. In turn she abused you, that is the bottom line
> 
> ...


1. Alcohol has absolutely been a catalyst for a lot of problems in our life, but we have done very well to eliminate it. Of the 11 years we've been together almost, we've probably drank for 4. I think it was still enough to manifest some of the things you mentioned to some degree, but in the later years it wasn't as much of a factor in our problems day to day. It would take me 3 days to stop being mad sometimes. Often times. Probably every time for the last year. She never really wanted to stop drinking completely. I don't know, but I imagine she's been drinking since she left. But as for that all goes, we have taken some good steps to stall that. 

2. What do you consider "held to account?" I feel I held her accountable and never stopped holding her accountable. You tell someone how awful they are for a long time, and they start to believe it. As to the cheating, yes, it wasn't acceptable. Period. I don't mean to sugar coat, but see my last comment above for my stance on that. I'm not saying it wasn't cheating. It just didn't justify my reaction, which didn't create an environment where our relationship could improve. 

3. I definitely failed to be constructive. As a result, the consequences were often ignored. I often felt she'd rather make me mad than do simple things I've asked for a million times. It was as if it was easier for her to fight with me than to do it. It's hard to do anything for someone who hurts you. It's hard for me anyway. That's good advice though for the future. I think I can get this constructive thing down. 

4. My behavior was definitely unreasonable. Hers was too at times when the cheating occurred. I just never stopped being unreasonable during our fights ever from some point. It just wasn't rational thinking or action. You're also only getting my side of the story. She is perfectly willing to admit that she has been foul at times. She'd likely sit here and say she has treated me awfully and doesn't know why, because that's what I made her believe. I don't see it as her turning it around on me. I don't even know what her present feelings are. She hasn't tried to make any claims other than to respond to my renewed chase with citing hateful things I have said to her in the past so many times. She believes that is still how I feel. It just wan't really true. But she has been so unwilling to talk to me at all. Tomorrow is day 3 of not contact at all. I really believe she just reached her absolute max. She'd had enough. I think it probably seems irreversible to her. I don't think her intent is to really turn anything on me. For all I know she's doing fine and moving on with her life. She hasn't stressed the formalities yet, so I remain hopeful until the ink is dry. It's still early. I dread that the next thing I hear from her will be her plans to get a place and get the process going. 

Thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts. I appreciate your sentiment. I think that is the answer whether she comes back or not, I have to focus on me and get myself together to be successful period. I don't really have any other choice right now, and it's not likely that's going to change, I'm afraid. Thanks again.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I made a derail and removed it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Yes I saw them. I'm pretty sure if my wife told me she was cheating on me (either due to alcohol or not) and explicitly told me that she didn't care about the marriage anymore, I would also have raised my voice and sounded angry. Would you not? I would also possibly blame myself too at first. It seems to me like a normal reaction for someone who hasn't experienced it before or hasn't been on TAM.
> 
> But ok. I feel I'm on thin ice here: as soon as the word 'abuse' is mentioned, alarm bells are ringing above any other content. Plus I don't think it's a good idea for me to disagree with a moderator. So I will humbly step away from this topic.
> 
> ...


I am sure I would be screaming, too, and crying. And leaving him.

But I doubt my husband would leave me over the same behavior. There would surely be other consequences, though. 

He would be examining his conscience, too, as he feels responsible for the relationship. 

I don't think my husband feels I can abuse him. He just does not give me that power over him.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

jld said:


> I am sure I would be screaming, too, and crying. And leaving him.
> 
> But I doubt my husband would leave me over the same behavior. There would surely be other consequences, though.
> 
> ...


I think the need for abuse actually comes from *lack of* power not the other way around.
Look, I would never say that when things go wrong, there's ever only one person to blame. It can never be this black and white. I just think you take this concept a little to the other extreme.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> I think the need for abuse actually comes from *lack of* power not the other way around.
> Look, I would never say that when things go wrong, there's ever only one person to blame. It can never be this black and white. I just think you take this concept a little to the other extreme.


The need for abuse?

I think there is a difference between unkindness and abuse. To me, abuse requires a power differential. 

For example, I could hit my husband as hard as I could and I doubt he would feel much of anything. 

But if he hit me as hard as he could, he might kill me.

I think lost's wife just could not take his emotional beatings anymore.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

jld said:


> The need for abuse?
> 
> I think there is a difference between unkindness and abuse. To me, abuse requires a power differential.
> 
> ...


Sure. Or he could not take her continuous cheating and complete disengagement in the marriage anymore and felt powerless hence all the shouting. Take your pick.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Sure. Or he could not take her continuous cheating and complete disengagement in the marriage anymore and felt powerless hence all the shouting. Take your pick.


Somebody has to take responsibility in the marriage, imp. Somebody has to be the leader.

I respect lost's decision to do that.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

jld said:


> The need for abuse?
> 
> I think there is a difference between unkindness and abuse. To me, abuse requires a power differential.
> 
> ...



BTW the power differential you are talking about applies to physical abuse. How do you measure this differential when it comes to emotional abuse? What could you possibly do to knock your husband out completely and render him powerless? That's right, you could sleep with someone else and then make him believe that he drove you to it. (I am not saying that's what happened with them but I find it hard to relate when people start making excuses for cheating).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

jld said:


> Somebody has to take responsibility in the marriage, imp. Somebody has to be the leader.
> 
> I respect lost's decision to do that.


Ok but that won't change the fact the she decided to leave him and is not coming back. Or do you think that making it clear to her that everything is his fault is going to bring her magically back?

You are always thinking in terms of you and Dug...To be helpful you need to step out of that box (if I may say so). Some people actually have *very *different moral values.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> BTW the power differential you are talking about applies to physical abuse. How do you measure this differential when it comes to emotional abuse? What could you possibly do to knock your husband out completely and render him powerless? That's right, you could sleep with someone else and then make him believe that he drove you to it. (I am not saying that's what happened with them but I find it hard to relate when people start making excuses for cheating).


I am not excusing cheating. And lost said he does not see her phone calls the same as a physical affair.

I think he is right. It sounds like his wife was just in emotional despair, and trying desperately to connect with someone. He knows he contributed to her vulnerability. 

She sounds fragile. And the man she trusted to protect her heart beat her emotionally. When she just could not take it anymore, she left.

Did you read this link? Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife

I sincerely doubt there is anything that would make my husband leave me, btw. He has way too much influence over me and is way too committed to me and the kids for that to happen.

And I just cannot see myself sleeping with another man. I think my conscience would kill me.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Ok but that won't change the fact the she decided to leave him and is not coming back. Or do you think that making it clear to her that everything is his fault is going to bring her magically back?
> 
> You are always thinking in terms of you and Dug...To be helpful you need to step out of that box (if I may say so). Some people actually have *very *different moral values.


I think he can earn back her trust. I think that article can help him do it.

Other marriages may have a more equal balance of power than mine, or may have the woman taking responsibility for the marriage. She soothes the man and makes him feel safe.

I am attracted by strong men, so prefer a male dominant marriage structure. I just do not think the equal marriage and femdom models look very appealing in comparison.

But different strokes for different folks.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

jld said:


> I am not excusing cheating. And lost said he does not see her phone calls the same as a physical affair.
> 
> I think he is right. It sounds like his wife was just in emotional despair, and trying desperately to connect with someone. He knows he contributed to her vulnerability.
> 
> ...


That's the reason that you often side with the female who cheated (because you believe she must have been so out of her mind that it took something extraordinary to happen for her to do something like this. In many cases people just don't think).

But you are right, I just went back and he did say in one of the posts that he doesn't have reason to believe there was physical cheating (that he knows of). I took the word 'cheating' at face value when it was brought up.
And no, I don't believe texting is the same as cheating (depending on what they were texting about. Perhaps OP knows?)


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Disagreeing with a moderator about topics unrelated to rules enforcement is perfectly acceptable. We are posters as well as moderators.


Thanks for clarifying. Is there a section on TAM where moderation/reporting etc can be discussed? There are a few things that still don't quite make sense to me. Or is it a topic that is generally banned/disallowed?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> Thanks for clarifying. Is there a section on TAM where moderation/reporting etc can be discussed? There are a few things that still don't quite make sense to me. Or is it a topic that is generally banned/disallowed?


Yes. Post it in the Forum Guidelines section, which is in About Talkaboutmarriage.com.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

jld said:


> I am not excusing cheating. And lost said he does not see her phone calls the same as a physical affair.
> 
> I think he is right. It sounds like his wife was just in emotional despair, and trying desperately to connect with someone. He knows he contributed to her vulnerability.
> 
> ...


Husbands break the hearts of their wives, crush them even but that does not mean they reach out to other men, what about other options, friends, God, etc. I think we are placing too much responsibility on the OP and not enough on his WW.
IMO alcohol in the mix contributes major problems in a marriage, (I know I am looking at this from my own experiences) due to the damage of verbal abuse, emotional abuse, and broken promises. 
OP needs to move on and fix himself.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

aine said:


> Husbands break the hearts of their wives, crush them even but that does not mean they reach out to other men, what about other options, friends, God, etc. I think we are placing too much responsibility on the OP and not enough on his WW.
> IMO alcohol in the mix contributes major problems in a marriage, (I know I am looking at this from my own experiences) due to the damage of verbal abuse, emotional abuse, and broken promises.
> OP needs to move on and fix himself.


I think some people are more fragile than others. 

We all have different vulnerabilities, and different capabilities.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

jld said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> But this is often too painful an idea for many exclusive (non-cheating) spouses to consider.
> 
> Your unwillingness to allow yourself to be talked into victimhood is remarkable, OP. And refreshing. I have lots of hope for your future.





aine said:


> Husbands break the hearts of their wives, crush them even but that does not mean they reach out to other men, what about other options, friends, God, etc. I think we are placing too much responsibility on the OP and not enough on his WW.
> IMO alcohol in the mix contributes major problems in a marriage, (I know I am looking at this from my own experiences) due to the damage of verbal abuse, emotional abuse, and broken promises.
> OP needs to move on and fix himself.


You know she ALWAYS blames the husband when the wife cheats. No matter how much the marriage or the husband sucks, only the cheating wife is responsible for her cheating, PERIOD. They dont get a pass because things arent going well. There hasnt been infidelity in her marriage, so she really has no idea. This particular OP has had some real issues, and it would certainly be easy to put the blame on him because of those issues. Its nice to read that he is taking ownership of how he's been, we dont usually see that. However, there wont be any nicing, or leading, or romancing, or anything else that is going to get her back. Her serial cheating is proof that she hasnt been in this for a very long time now. 

I know firsthand from actually having cheated myself that the blame/responsibility for my actions lies squarely on ME, and no one else. ( I have also been cheated ON, so I know both sides of this, sad to say. ) My XH sucked, but I should have gotten out instead of stepping out.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> You know she ALWAYS blames the husband when the wife cheats. No matter how much the marriage or the husband sucks, only the cheating wife is responsible for her cheating, PERIOD. They dont get a pass because things arent going well. There hasnt been infidelity in her marriage, so she really has no idea. This particular OP has had some real issues, and it would certainly be easy to put the blame on him because of those issues. Its nice to read that he is taking ownership of how he's been, we dont usually see that. However, there wont be any nicing, or leading, or romancing, or anything else that is going to get her back. Her serial cheating is proof that she hasnt been in this for a very long time now.
> 
> *I know firsthand from actually having cheated myself that the blame/responsibility for my actions lies squarely on ME, and no one else. ( I have also been cheated ON, so I know both sides of this, sad to say. ) My XH sucked, but I should have gotten out instead of stepping out.*


I don't see anyone, including myself, disagreeing with this.

We are all ultimately responsible for the decisions we make. We are the ones who pay the price for them, after all.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

For anyone following, I have come to some conclusions. Yesterday, I had a really bad day. However, by last night, I accomplished some things I've been wanting to do for a long time and really kind of surprised myself. I know there are going to be highs and lows. After feeling accomplished last night, I wasn't sure if that confidence would remain this morning when I woke up. But.... it did.. I may feel differently tomorrow or the next day, but this was a profound moment for me, for now. 

So I have concluded the following things about my entire situation... and correct me if need be. You all have been a huge part of me finding myself in some sense. 

#1.. It's going to be ok. Life does go on. Go figure. 

#2.. a marriage doesn't end over any one incident... (exceptions to every rule, but.. you get it.) It's not just my fault that my wife chose to leave, even though I was the catalyst that triggered the event. I stood by my wife through a lot, and through many crises, alcoholism, and betrayals. That's what you do when you have unconditional love for someone. She needed my help and I was there. Now I have recognized that I also have a disease. If she won't stand by me and help me beat it, then it wasn't meant to be. I won't blame her, it's not a very pretty disease, but neither was hers. Thanks to anger mgmt, I realize that I have a right to be mad too, and any resolution is going to have to be a mutual effort.

#3..I don't have to feel angry and rely on anyone else to resolve my anger or react a certain way. They're going to react how they're going to react. I can make my feelings known, but I will NOT let anyone take my happy seconds, minutes, days, months, or years away and get angry if they don't react the way I would prefer.. It's most important to be happy with the person you are first and foremost, and then your happiness relies on NObody else. Gotta love yourself to love someone else. I think too many people just kind of write that off as a cliche, but it's so true. Love yourself because you treat people the way you want them to treat you, and then love the people who treat you well. 

#4.. I'm not worthless. We all deserve to be happy. I made some bad mistakes, but we all have the potential to be good and do better. I am a good person. I don't have to let this define me for one second. I don't deserve to be punished by myself forever anymore than she deserved it. I'm ready to really give my all to this marriage, and if that's really what she wanted a week ago, then she would want that still. If not, then I shouldn't feel any less of a person because of it. That will only result in becoming less of a person. The answer to all of our problems is within ourselves. 

#5.. It's going to be ok!!!!!! Life goes on!!!!!

Now.. just gotta keep remembering this!!!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Of course you're going to be ok and you are most certainly not worthless. 

You've made mistakes and you own them. That makes you an adult. 

The thing with a marriage is that it takes two and you certainly don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be there. 

Your worth doesn't come from your wife or marriage, it comes from you.

Leave your wife alone and live your life.... you'll be fine. 

Maybe happier.

My ex did not want a divorce, but you what? He's much happier without me, and I'm many times happier without him. 

And our kids are thriving. 

When the match is toxic nobody benefits.


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## lost_without_her (May 9, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> Of course you're going to be ok and you are most certainly not worthless.
> 
> You've made mistakes and you own them. That makes you an adult.
> 
> ...



I agree. Very well put. Thanks for your encouragement. I'm glad to hear that your situation has worked out for the best. Thanks again.


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