# Losing my desire to make it work: Jealous and insecure DH



## GottaGetaGrip (Mar 24, 2015)

My husband and I have been married for 11 years and we have two children (2 and 5). It seems like it has been 11 years of struggling to "improve our relationship" without as much genuine happiness as I think a marriage actually ought to have. 

Currently (as I see it), he has serious issues with jealousy and insecurity, and I am fed up with the problems his issues create in our relationship.

I have been the epitome of faithful, trustworthy and loyal from the beginning of our relationship. I'm not perfect and I'm not saying he is the only problem in our relationship, but this is the big obstacle that has taken us from having some minor to moderate communication issues, to nearly ending a decade long marriage.

Lately, he has been either directly or indirectly accusing me of behavior ranging from downright having an affair and sleeping around to dressing to "impress a guy/guys" and everything in between. He goes through my texts and call logs when I'm not around, constantly questions my choice in clothing, accuses me of not loving him, wanting someone else, etc. Honestly, just google "jealous and insecure husband" and he checks all the boxes. He has always been jealous and insecure to some degree, but it's reached an extreme peak.

As a result, I admit I have become distant and withdrawn (both physically and emotionally). Sorry, but how much of this can a person take without putting up a barrier? I'm only human. He may as well call me a **** or something, because that's what it feels like. And yes, I have told him this is how he makes me feel. I know that my withdrawal perpetuates the cycle, but I can only force myself to go all in, for so long before I can't take anymore. I'm reaching a breaking point where the toll of this is starting to effect everything I do.

If I try to defend myself and convince him I'm innocent, he thinks my "defensiveness" makes me look more guilty. If I try and ignore it or shrug it off like it's silly and I'm not going to engage him, I'm "not committed or unwilling to communicate/work on things." I have tried numerous methods of addressing his accusations, all to no avail.

We rarely have sex. I realize this fuels his suspicions and feelings that I either don't want him, don't love him, etc. But I'm not a robot. I can't just go through the motions with someone who has essentially, pushed me to a point that I can't take anymore.

Notably, I had a medically necessary, total hysterectomy a year ago and my body literally makes no sex hormones. I am on hormone replacement therapy, but the one thing that I haven't been able to successfully treat, is the effect on my libido (or complete lack of). Prior to my surgery, health problems frequently interfered with a normal sex life, so I'm not sure we've ever known "normal" in this department. We also dealt with 5-6 years of infertility (all related).

He doesn't seem to consider this as a plausible explanation for why, by his assessment, I don't seem to want a normal amount of sex (at least with him). To him, the more likely explanation is that I actually do want sex, just with someone else. I can assure you, I have zero physical desire for anyone or anything...period.

Whatever desire I might have been able to muster up, in spite of my physiological problems, is completely eliminated by the damage of this jealous and insecure insanity. The things he grabs onto and twists into major issues are just so out there and ridiculous. I can't think a celebrity or an actor is good looking, without him being completely and unreasonably upset by it! And then we go from me smiling at a hot fireman on tv, to the natural leap that this must mean I'm not in love with DH, that what I actually want is to be married to a hot fire fighter.

He is constantly trying to convince me to admit that I want someone else, I'm unhappy, don't love him, etc. It's like he WANTS me to say he's not good enough or not what I want.

It's become so all encompassing and so constant and non-stop that I literally just can't cope with it anymore. And yet I am made out to be the bad guy. Because he has always had issues communicating his feelings, now suddenly he's trying to tell me how he feels and I'm being dismissive or insensitive. Your feelings are that I'm a lying cheater!! Am I supposed to smile and say "I'm so glad you shared that with me. Can I have sex with you to help reassure you? Maybe start dressing in a paper bag, with no make up and uncombed hair?"

I mean, how am I SUPPOSED TO RESPOND?!


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

He's not likely to change. 

Thus, you have to ask yourself if you want to continue to deal with this man and his jealous nature.

If not, then end it and find someone whom you can enjoy a normal, healthy relationship with.

On the other hand, if you want to continue to accept his behavior, then by all means, continue in the relationship.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Give examples of his jealousy or insecurity?

Are you doing anything to help with it or just making him say "grow up".

The lack of sex is a huge issue and I think you need to be sensitive to your husband about it.

I don't know, and maybe it's out of your frustration, but you sound a bit harsh to your husband rather than understanding. Consider the other side is one thing to consider.

Was he cheated on in the past or have there been issues in your relationship to trigger his thoughts? Usually doesn't come out of thin air...

Need more info here...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GottaGetaGrip said:


> My husband and I have been married for 11 years and we have two children (2 and 5). It seems like it has been 11 years of struggling to "improve our relationship" without as much genuine happiness as I think a marriage actually ought to have.
> 
> Currently (as I see it), he has serious issues with jealousy and insecurity, and I am fed up with the problems his issues create in our relationship.
> 
> ...


You are responding is a very normal way... it's driving you crazy.

Do you have a job? 

My first reaction is to get away from him as fast as you can. He's really losing it.. coming apart basically.

When did the jealousy issues start?

If you want to make one last attempt to save your marriage, he is going to need to stop the accusations.

This is not a do-it-yourself problem you are dealing with. He sounds so out a line that it's crazy. Is he bi-polar by any chance?


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## GottaGetaGrip (Mar 24, 2015)

I figured some might think I was harsh, but in truth I just posted out of frustration with no effort to filter any of that, thinking I could vent here. I don't as a rule, respond to my husband in that tone. I have been more inclined to respond that way, only recently, when I reached a breaking point over the constant accusations, harassment and interogations. 

I went back to school a couple years ago and am trying to finish my degree. I started at a community college and the issues of jealousy progressed from a semi-annoying level, where they had been most of our marriage, to an extreme and intolerable point when I transferred to an engineering program at a state university. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put it together. Blue collar guy from a poor single mom family, marries a smart upper middle class girl, who decides to fulfill her potential and takes on a challenging educational program filled with mostly male students. Recipe for disaster if said blue collar guy is jealous and insecure.

The thing is, he has no need to be. He is a very successful tradesman and should be proud of his career. I am. He has achieved a lot of success. But yet it's as if he is threatened by the prospective intellectual types I'm going to encounter in an educational or professional setting.

In any case, I am conservative and practice good judgement in terms of when and how I meet male classmates to study, etc. Strictly group interactions in public places (namely the library). I speak about them around my husband openly, just as he mentions his Co workers. "I studied with Tyler today for our mechanics exam tomorrow. how was your day?" - things like that.

Besides him just not being able to handle, that I have male classmates, that I study with, I don't know what else has changed that I have any control over. It's necessary for me to have a network of students to collaborate with and we are all in it for the common goal of getting help from our peers and ultimately getting through the program. I should be allowed that without the first assumption being that one or all of those relationships are inappropriate. 

What I wear to school also troubles him. I'm a busy mom in college. I wear whatever is clean. Sometimes that's yoga pants and a tshirt (gasp...am I showing off my backside at school)?! Or heaven forbid, jeans and something casual. Hair down? Eye makeup? That's it, I'm clearly prowling the university looking for a man. Right? 

Hopefully this paints a clearer picture of what's going on. I'm sure he thinks he has his "reasons" but they are unfounded and damaging our marriage. There is virtually nothing I could do to change my behavior around men at school or anywhere, because I'm already doing everything right In that regard,

So I'm at a loss. Where to go from here?


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

GottaGetaGrip said:


> I figured some might think I was harsh, but in truth I just posted out of frustration with no effort to filter any of that, thinking I could vent here. I don't as a rule, respond to my husband in that tone. I have been more inclined to respond that way, only recently, when I reached a breaking point over the constant accusations, harassment and interogations.
> 
> I went back to school a couple years ago and am trying to finish my degree. I started at a community college and the issues of jealousy progressed from a semi-annoying level, where they had been most of our marriage, to an extreme and intolerable point when I transferred to an engineering program at a state university. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put it together. Blue collar guy from a poor single mom family, marries a smart upper middle class girl, who decides to fulfill her potential and takes on a challenging educational program filled with mostly male students. Recipe for disaster if said blue collar guy is jealous and insecure.
> 
> ...


The 1:1 studying with male students is dicey by the way and would make MANY husbands leary. I'm from engineer as well and know not many females for you to interact so going to be tough road ahead if you continue studying with them. I personally would avoid 1:1. Not just in your case but to anyone as slippery slope easily crossed in cases like this, even more so if you not happy in your marriage.

Ask him straight up what makes him the most uncomfortable and jealous. Don't beat around the bush and say you want to do anything you can so he's not bothered. Then see if it's possible to make small changes he can handle.

Have you considered also having him go back to school when you are done? A big gradient is spousal education can make things worse if you begin to look at your husband as the "blue collar guy"....


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GottaGetaGrip said:


> I figured some might think I was harsh, but in truth I just posted out of frustration with no effort to filter any of that, thinking I could vent here. I don't as a rule, respond to my husband in that tone. I have been more inclined to respond that way, only recently, when I reached a breaking point over the constant accusations, harassment and interogations.
> 
> I went back to school a couple years ago and am trying to finish my degree. I started at a community college and the issues of jealousy progressed from a semi-annoying level, where they had been most of our marriage, to an extreme and intolerable point when I transferred to an engineering program at a state university. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put it together. Blue collar guy from a poor single mom family, marries a smart upper middle class girl, who decides to fulfill her potential and takes on a challenging educational program filled with mostly male students. Recipe for disaster if said blue collar guy is jealous and insecure.
> 
> ...


I'm an engineer too. Have worked in the field for over 30 years. As you can imagine, there were even fewer women in the field when I started. 

You are going to have to work with men your entire career. It starts now in school and will go on your entire career. 

There are times when I work on a project with some guy, in a locked lab, for weeks, months. Sure there are people who enter time to time. But sometimes it just me and some guy. there are times when a project needs a lot of extra time so we work late into the night... even over night.

It is 100% possible for women and men to work together without anything getting too personal. You have 100% control over that. I've never had a problem with it. 

It sounds like you are careful when you study with a guy. Doing it in a public place is good. Also make sure that you do not talk about personal things. Doing that is what starts to suck a person in emotionally. Just establish a decorum that is professional.

Your husband's jealousy was not good before you started back to school. It sounds like it's completely out of control now. He most likely has the goal of ending you working on the degree. He cannot handle it.

About 50% of working women now earn as much or more than their husbands. The latest studies say that most couples today have no issues with this. 

Were I you, I would not give in to his jealousy. He needs to go to counseling to figure out how to settle this in his mind. Marriage counseling will probably help too as the two of you have things to work out.

You cannot go on like this. It's toxic. It will ruin your education and your career if you do not nip it in the bud now. Either he gets help and fixes HIS issues with jealousy or you need to leave him. I would tell him that either he seek out counseling or you are filing for divorce. It's that serious.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

EleGirl is right. It is that serious. He needs to fix himself. He likely won't take a micro step in that direction until he understands you don't believe for a second his accusations against you, and understands that this is a deal breaker for you (whether you are comfortable with ending your marriage or not, it does not sound sustainable).



Does he have other unusual behaviors? Has he been threatening in any way?


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I'm an engineer too. Have worked in the field for over 30 years. As you can imagine, there were even fewer women in the field when I started.
> 
> You are going to have to work with men your entire career. It starts now in school and will go on your entire career.
> 
> ...


Elegirl, look at whole picture. There is lack of intimacy/sex going on as well. That's a big deal.

I'd be careful just laying it all on the husband without knowing more. 

OP went into detail about it for a reason but did not clarify how they are dealing with the hormone/sex thing as a couple. My gut tells me this is as much an issue as is the wife going onto to higher education.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

This husband is likely very high in *Physical Touch*... and due to the infertility issues (I know all about that - lived it for almost 7 yrs and my husband felt "less loved" by me) and we didn't have any others problems, we were very close.... he tried to bury his WANT/ his feelings ....and NEVER Complained.. but that doesn't mean a man isn't FEELING IT.. 

Was your husband cheated on in the past.. or betrayed by a former Girlfriend(s)?? ... if so, this would explain in part his obsessive behavior...he struggles with trust ...then his strong need to feel desired on top of that.. it's a terrible mixture...and yeah....he's handling it in a very BAD way.. .and pushing you more away !!! 

Being in his shoes wouldnt be so easy either...this is a really SAD place to be...for you both.... your Husband needs intimacy... physical and Emotional ...to feel Loved... to feel you are engaged with him.. if you are secretive, don't share things with him.. non affectionate.... he's going to feel like he is drowning in this marriage.. ..Yes, he is acting out -BADLY... 

The fact you don't feel ANYTHING anymore (no hormones, no lust, no want)... when he is the type that probably would give anything to feel this from his wife.. is a tremendous blow to him...and has been for *all these years*...

Then on your end.. Of course this pushes you away.. no one wants accused of these awful things when you are innocent !! And you act out.. shut him out, you've had it [email protected]#$....

Both of you have work to do here, for any hope of fixing this... 

He has to* stop* these accusations.. but YOU.. if you love this man... will need to meet him half way.. or this marriage doesn't stand a chance..

Taken from my thread below.. about the important TO A MAN.. to feel desired, wanted by their wives...some man may not care as much but I have a feeling you are just not married to that sort of man.. he is very sensitive here.. 



> *2*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## GottaGetaGrip (Mar 24, 2015)

The lack of sex is seriously exaserbated by the emotional strain of the jealousy. Even in spite of my physical challenges and our strained marriage, we're probably still intimate a couple times a month. If it were strictly an issue with me physically, I would aim for once a week.

I've come to the conclusion I'm going to have to force myself out of obligation, to just have sex with him. I can't help it, and hormone therapy either doesn't work or I can't live with the side effects.

For him, normal would be almost every night and periodically more than once a day. Seriously?! Unrealistic right? I don't know a woman with kids and work/school that has that kind of drive or energy...but DH will say "it's just you, other women want sex all the time" and he will use it to build his case against me as unfaithful.

It's also frustrating for me that he makes no effort to understand what I struggle with physically as a result of not having any ovaries. Know a lot of post-menopausal 20-somethings? There's hardly a strong enough estrogen available to just keep me from having daily migraines and skin so dry it flakes off. Much less a raging sex drive. But it's like he doesn't give a rats behind that it's a struggle and that in spite of it all, I try.

Makes me want to quit trying...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

GottaGetaGrip said:


> The lack of sex is seriously exaserbated by the emotional strain of the jealousy. Even in spite of my physical challenges and our strained marriage, we're probably still intimate a couple times a month. If it were strictly an issue with me physically, I would aim for once a week.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion I'm going to have to force myself out of obligation, to just have sex with him. I can't help it, and hormone therapy either doesn't work or I can't live with the side effects.
> 
> *For him, normal would be almost every night and periodically more than once a day. Seriously?! Unrealistic right? I don't know a woman with kids and work/school that has that kind of drive or energy...but DH will say "it's just you, other women want sex all the time" and he will use it to build his case against me as unfaithful.*


 TO be perfectly HONEST.. I was one of these women ...a few yrs ago.. and it's why I feel I understand many men in this.. I would have left my marriage if my Husband didn't enjoy sex.. I mean that.. I would have been hell to live with...I could not keep my hands off him.. and I have described it as "tormenting" - I had to have it once a day...he did all he could. God love that man!!

I know that's why I praise him so much.. even in our dryer days, if he didn't have a sex drive ,I would have been devastated.. it's not something some of us could live with...I say this being a woman HIGH in "physical touch"...



> It's also frustrating for me that he makes no effort to understand what I struggle with physically as a result of not having any ovaries. *Know a lot of post-menopausal 20-somethings? *There's hardly a strong enough estrogen available to just keep me from having daily migraines and skin so dry it flakes off. Much less a raging sex drive. But it's like he doesn't give a rats behind that it's a struggle and that in spite of it all, I try.
> 
> Makes me want to quit trying...


 You are both in your 20's!! this Explains his very high sex drive, he is in his SEXUAL PRIME....it's very NORMAL for men his age to want sex 2 times a day... and you said you engage only 2 times a month.. do you realize this is only 14 romps more in a year over what is considered a SEXLESS MARRIAGE.. (deemed 10 or less times a year)...

Your husband is starving, he may even hate himself for feeling as he does -(I don't know).. yet he can't help what is churning in his body any more than you can help your migraines and feeling nothing hormonally....

The only cure for your husband is if he's put on Depression drugs, it would zap his sex drive..or at least calm it... but how sad it would be to do this .. .when he just wants to live a full sexually intimate life with his wife.. ...and You will never understand him ....without this antsy ranging hormonal make up...

I really don't think this is going to work...the divide is just TOO GREAT, like a Grand canyon... for a young couple to get through the next 40 plus yrs together.. I've seen threads on this forum where a man was asking if he should get castrated because the pain of living in a near sexless marriage was killing him.. so very sad... 

Have you & him spoken of divorce? Oh I see you have 2 kids.. just a very tough situation .


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I know exactly how your husband feels. Jealousy and insecurity are one in the same IMO. Its a terrible thing to think I am not the man she wants to be with. I am finally getting over it, but I still have my moments. The problem isnt you its him. I know this doesnt help you, but I just wanted you to see what he may be going thru. Maybe you can get him to see an IC. Oh by the way since I quit engaging in this behaviour, we have been a lot closer and the sex has been a lot better. She has been thru menopause.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GottaGetaGrip (Mar 24, 2015)

To clarify, I am 29 and he is 33. I had my hysterectomy at 27.


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## GottaGetaGrip (Mar 24, 2015)

Also, regarding the suggestion that I ask what small changes I could make so he will be comfortable...why should i? Change, that is. I mean, I know that sounded blunt, and I'm not unwilling to compromise or be sensitive to his needs, except when his needs are unreasonable and/or unfair. 

I'm being genuine here and I want to know...how much should an innocent and loyal person cater to unreasonable and unfounded accusations? I feel like a woman in a lifetime movie. I don't know what to wear or how to style my hair anymore for goodness sakes! I can't even shave my legs if I don't immediately have sex with him, apparently to justify why I wanted smooth legs.

I'm honestly asking myself if I have become pathetic with no backbone and identity anymore. 

Other people are beginning to notice this too. A few weeks ago after a very RARE mommy outing with a lifelong friend who has kids the same age as mine, she actually called me out for putting my hair up right before I went home! She literally said, "your hair looks good and I know it took an hour to blowdry it so why are you putting it up?" When I responded that it was bothering my neck she literally said, "bull ****. You just don't want to look good when you get home, because you know he'll start interogating you because you look nice." Busted.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

GGG-

You are the one here. Perhaps your goal is to improve your marriage...if that is the case...change has to start somewhere (why not start with you?)...

...Or perhaps your vent here is to help justify a potential separation/divorce...I mean, when someone starts making a list of wrongs, that is where they choose to focus...and then lose sight of a bigger picture....two people in a relationship...with a choice to love... YOU are one of those two people...

What do you choose?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

GottaGetaGrip said:


> I'm being genuine here and I want to know...how much should an innocent and loyal person cater to unreasonable and unfounded accusations?


Zero.

Never sacrifice the truth, your awareness of the truth, your living by the truth.

Be direct. Have the uncomfortable conversations. Keep the signal-to-noise ratio high.

It sounds like you two are operating with divergent views of what is going on. You do not understand where each other's hearts and minds are. Until you talk about that, and get on the same page, the distance between you two and a solution will continue to increase.

I'm going to take a guess at what is going on. I am really surprised that my mind was in a place yesterday where I simply and completely missed what a couple of folks above pointed out. It is pretty ironic I missed it, considering my years of feeling rejected, even suggested by my posts yesterday elsewhere on the board. Weird. But I digress 

What follows is just my guess. YMMV:

He does not understand what it is that is pushing you away from the physical intimacy you'd otherwise be willing to have. You don't understand how much he is hurting inside -- hurting not because, say, he hasn't gotten his rocks off lately using your body, but because he feels very rejected by you and sincerely and deeply misses you.

I think you would learn something if you directly asked him this:

_ "I've been thinking about how my lack of interest in sex has been making you feel. Or rather, I've been wondering if I understand it. You seem increasingly consumed with thoughts that I might be unfaithful to you, or have set my sights on leaving. Yet I haven't been unfaithful, and know that I have not, and I'm pretty sure the things I do (shave my legs because I want to, or wear my hair in a way to make myself feel pretty) are "normal" -- and, in a different time and place, especially where I was meeting your needs for physical affection, you wouldn't feel the least bit trouble over things like that (in fact, I like to think when we are apart, you'd prefer to think I bother to take care of how I look in general, and how I feel about myself! I'd think you'd prefer my legs to be shaved, even if they're miles away from you but destined to be seen by you later in the day!) 

So I wanted to ask you this: When I turn down your attempts to initiate sex, when I turn away from your expressed desire to connect with me -- physically -- do you feel utterly rejected? Do you feel like I don't care about you, that I don't love you? What does sex mean to you -- is it just physical, something anyone could do for you, or is there a way in which it makes you feel connected to me, perhaps more than I realize?_​

Honestly, I don't know what his answer would be. (I know what mine would have been, way back when, had my wife bothered to ask such questions). But, I strongly suspect his answer -- whatever it is -- will tell you something meaningful about your current situation, and point to the deeper and more fundamental disconnect.

Best of luck.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Having the difficult conversations is, well, very difficult when people are feeling hurt, rejected, accused.

If you have the money, I recommend The Art and Science of Love workshop put on by the Gottman Institute. There is a $175 home study course (DVDs, etc) available here: Art & Science of Love Home DVD Workshop - The Gottman InstituteThe Gottman Institute

That link points to live presentations of the course as well, which are more expensive.

IME, the exercises during the live presentation are effective at "peeling the onion" and getting out what each partner is really feeling, and therefore give empathy a chance to form. I don't know how well they would work in the home environment (no peer-pressure to behave well, like in the public/live presentation (there is privacy there -- but no so much one could start arguing to derail the conversation).


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I suggest that you do not cater to his every irrational behavior. This is not a small simple matter like throwing out the trash, but his persona as a romantic interest. If he acts irrationally and you keep catering to that behavior and keep changing for him while he remains his irrational, insecure, and jealous self, he will stop growing and you will probably change into someone who keeps enabling that behavior.

Everyone has to own their own issues. instead of bettering himself, he is trying to change your life. Sure, there has to be compromise, but to simply give into his irrational habits is not what he needs. If he keeps acting in that manner, do you simply just mold yourself around him so he does not have to face himself?

BTW, even if you give into him, it does not mean that you will still not lose love for him. You may resent that you have to walk on egg shells to be around him. You can ignore the small things to stay in love, but this is a major part of who he is, and over time the negative will out weigh the positive. Think of it this way. If someone was a good parent, provide well, and leave the family wanting for not,but the down side is that person beats their spouse once a month. Negativity will always be a higher factor to consider. You simply cannot only look at the positive, but need to take in the whole. You looked past it long enough and now it is even a larger factor.


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## batsociety (Jan 23, 2015)

If I was going through some serious biological changes like you have been and my husband came out with all this BS, I wouldn't want to touch him, either. Don't feel like you are obligated to cater to his needs while he is acting like this. He's not entitled to anything.

Some peeps in this thread have made some good points that deserve further consideration but I'm going to throw something else out there: Have you considered that he might be projecting his own feelings of anxiety/guilt over _his_ unfaithful behavior onto you?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jdawg2015 said:


> Elegirl, look at whole picture. There is lack of intimacy/sex going on as well. That's a big deal.
> 
> I'd be careful just laying it all on the husband without knowing more.
> 
> OP went into detail about it for a reason but did not clarify how they are dealing with the hormone/sex thing as a couple. My gut tells me this is as much an issue as is the wife going onto to higher education.


Oh, I've been in a marriage where my husband refused sex, for years. I get it. But that does justify the way he is acting. From what she says he was overly jealous before she went back to school.

As someone said, his love language is probably touch. So is mine.... touch & sex. But what he is doing is only driving her further and further away.

She has things that she can do and needs to do. But she cannot do them with him constantly beating her with the jealousy stick.


.


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## GottaGetaGrip (Mar 24, 2015)

Ahhh! It feels so good to hear someone else say they can see why I feel this way!

In an effort to not write a novel account of a decade long marriage, there is a lot that I haven't said here that might give the false impression that I am focused on only him changing and not willing to work on myself. So for the record, that's not what this is. We have done retreats, workshops, self-help books, etc. I have just focused on the issues I feel only he can do something about in this thread, because I have been desperate for an outlet.

Here's a couple other interesting bits...

I take ambien for SEVERE insomnia. I can and have literally gone days without sleeping if I don't have a pretty decent prescription sleep aid. Ambien seems to be the tamest of the ones that work and the only thing my doctor's feel comfortable letting me take for years on end. I have been warned by people about how it can be dicey and people get addicted, have problems, etc. but I have always kind of blown those comments off, because I am a responsible user and I generally don't drink alcohol....

...until now. I think these marital issues might force me to find an alternative, and I don't know what it's going to be, because Lord knows my doctor's and I have tried and discussed everything! But he claims we are having conversations where I say or admit to something scandalous, and I have NO MEMORY of these conversations!!

And here's the thing...if for some reason I take my ambien and then the kids wake up or I get a phone call and end up not going to bed immediately, I do have memory issues. Because at some point you are basically sleep walking. But I always have some memory of it, cloudy, but it's there. Sometimes it's just that I have to ask if something really happened or if it was a dream.

But now he is claiming we have whole conversations that are a total BLANK to me. At first it scared me. But now I think he's lying! Is he waking me up from a dead sleep to talk to me? Because the last thing I remember is laying down and falling asleep and then I wake up and we're not on speaking terms because of "what I said last night."

And what did I allegedly say? Who the heck knows? Because he won't tell me!! It's just a bunch of evasive "what you said" and "you seriously don't remember THAT conversation last night?!"

I actually am not worried about "what I said" because I have zero secrets from him. So unless I'm having some pretty insane crazy dreams about having an affair with santa claus, I don't know what I could possibly be revealing in these alleged conversations!

I almost feel like he's trying to trick me into revealing something, by making me think I already spilled while I was under the influence of a sleeping pill. But the problem is THERE IS NOTHING TO REVEAL!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Ok it can be easy to verify if you are saying the things he claims or if he's making it up. Get a voice activated recorder. Put it in your bedroom. Do not tell him you are doing this. Then check it daily to hear if you are talking in your sleep. 

You could also get a spy camera. They I come hidden in stuffed toys, clock radios, wall sockets... use both the VAR and the camera. Find out I what is, or is not, going on.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

GottaGetaGrip said:


> And what did I allegedly say? Who the heck knows? Because he won't tell me!! It's just a bunch of evasive "what you said" and "you seriously don't remember THAT conversation last night?!"


The VAR is a very good idea.

Just a thought, along the lines of being very direct with and to not let him get away with double-speak:

"Of course I don't remember THAT conversation, I took my Ambien. But, apparently you remember that conversation, and apparently I said some things that bothered you, so why don't you tell me exactly what I said."

When he evades:

"You can either tell me directly what I said, and tell me now, or I can only conclude you are trying to manipulate me, shame me, and punish me -- in which case, let me make this clear: I do not appreciate it, and I won't accept that sort of treatment. So, what exactly did I say?"

If he continues, then: "I guess it is an attempt at shame and manipulation." -- and then walk away.


Just a thought.

See outofthefog.net, if haven't already.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

GottaGetaGrip said:


> The lack of sex is seriously exaserbated by the emotional strain of the jealousy. Even in spite of my physical challenges and our strained marriage, we're probably still intimate a couple times a month. If it were strictly an issue with me physically, I would aim for once a week.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion I'm going to have to force myself out of obligation, to just have sex with him. I can't help it, and hormone therapy either doesn't work or I can't live with the side effects.
> 
> ...


I did also had an Hysterectomy when I was in my late 30's. At the time, I was involved with someone that I was deeply in Love with.
My sex drive was out of charts when I saw him. It will last for at least an hour or so each time we were together, ( about 4 times per week).
After I broke up with him, my sex drive diminished for about 4 years. I mean, it went OFF. Men were like trees to me.

I started being very forgettable about where I left things, etc. A friend of mine send me to a Biodentical Hormones Doctor.
She analyzed my hormones and I have not trace of any of them.

She fixed all of my hormonal issues and within a week, I started feeling desirable and desire for the opposite gender.
Up to this day, I take them everyday and everything works as a 35 y/0 female.

You should have a Doctor reevaluate your hormones. Some doctors are not trained to do that correctly. They have an "idea" but they are not fully up to date.
Hormones unbalance and or lack of it, will bring to you all kind of medical problems.

A great book about the subject. BREAKTHROUGH by Suzanne Summers.

About your husband 's jealousy, I think you shall sit with him and tell him where you stand - and to get therapy. 
Best wishes.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

I forgot to say, I used to have Terrible Migraines almost in a daily basis... within 5 days of the hormonal treatment, they were GONE, and after 10 years , I have never had One Migraine.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

GottaGetaGrip said:


> My husband and I have been married for 11 years and we have two children (2 and 5). It seems like it has been 11 years of struggling to "improve our relationship" without as much genuine happiness as I think a marriage actually ought to have.
> 
> Currently (as I see it), he has serious issues with jealousy and insecurity, and I am fed up with the problems his issues create in our relationship.
> 
> ...


There are two things I've learned in life that may apply here:

1 - that people often live their lives using the "self fulfilling prophecy" method. This can apply to marriages, too. They are so sure that something's wrong that they MAKE it wrong. In other words, an inability to be happy. I personally struggle with this from time to time, and I have to catch myself occasionally. It sucks.

2 - That people often project their own weaknesses upon the ones they love. This can include a husband or wife who has had an affair, or is considering an affair, or who would WANT an affair, being accusatory of their spouse of the same. (to be clear, I'm not suggesting this is the case with you/him, I'm just saying). 

Things like that are sometimes borne out of self-hatred/anger/pity, as in "I'm not good enough for her/him, what does she see in me? She MUST be having an affair. She's too good for me, and there's no way she's happy."

This excites the part of the brain that looks for this stuff. An eye roll here, a harsh word there. Unexplained absence for 2 minutes (she must have been texting some guy), etc. Looking for things that aren't there, but that that we can convince is there.

A tiny moment of doubt can snowball into full-blown paranoia if left unchecked.

I suggest you sit down with your husband and hash this out, without being accusatory or defensive (two things paranoid people will use to throw gas on the fire). It's a tricky conversation to have, but he obviously needs to be made to feel at ease and come down off the ledge.

The other thing is that he clearly needs more ego boosts than he's being provided. He may already be getting it in spades, I don't know. I admit that I am occasionally like that, too, with my wife (but she simply isn't much one for compliments or verbal thanks, which is my language. I made a special trip to get her something she had been looking for, today, and I told her I found it when she called this afternoon. She said "oh, cool", and that was it. No "thanks honey, that's thoughtful!" So I'm used to it.)

At the end of the day, it's frustrating and insulting to you, there's no doubt. But it's always best to try and understand where he's coming from before you boot him off the ledge. It may be something you hadn't considered. He may also just be a jealous a-hole, too. But better to find out unequivocally one way or the other before you take one final leap.


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## GottaGetaGrip (Mar 24, 2015)

Several excellent suggestions, thank you!

As for the hormones, I feel like it's a lost cause. I paid several thousand dollars to see an excellent, very highly thought of hormone specialist. Basically we have improved everything but my libido. The only thing that worked was testosterone injections. Even in the most micro of doses, so small it was almost impossible to draw into the syringe, I had bad acne, oily skin and facial hair growth. I've waxed it enough times that it's thinned out and I am not about to take another shot of T!

I've also tried various combinations of estrogen, progesterone and testosterone via sublingual drops, creams and pills, all custom compounded in varying doses. And if I want a sex drive, I get an oily, hairy, zit covered face...no thank you.

I'm sure my husband would gladly accept those trade offs, but it's my body and it ain't happening!

In other news, we have an appointment for marriage counseling this Thursday. Hopefully something good will come of that.


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## GottaGetaGrip (Mar 24, 2015)

The truth is, I think the frequency of intimacy could pick up to a normal level, despite my hormone issue, if we weren't a million miles apart. But the combination of the two has just killed it entirely.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

GGG, I totally understand where you're coming from. 

The thing is, you're here, and he's not. 

What would he say if he were?

I bet it would be something along the lines of "my wife is only 27, won't have sex with me, won't do hrt to fix it, is drawing away from me, help! I'm worried there's someone else because she has no interest in me, and I don't want to live in a marriage where I'm not desired and important!"

I'm not saying you don't have every right to feel the way you do. He obviously has work to do. 

But I think there's more to it than that.


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## malagacoast (Feb 2, 2015)

GottaGetaGrip said:


> Several excellent suggestions, thank you!
> 
> As for the hormones, I feel like it's a lost cause. I paid several thousand dollars to see an excellent, very highly thought of hormone specialist. Basically we have improved everything but my libido. The only thing that worked was testosterone injections. Even in the most micro of doses, so small it was almost impossible to draw into the syringe, I had bad acne, oily skin and facial hair growth. I've waxed it enough times that it's thinned out and I am not about to take another shot of T!
> 
> ...


Get that Book I have mentioned, in fact, Everyone should read it. It talks about the Hormone Link with good Health. For Women and Men.
Your migraines are a symptom of too much or too little hormonal Unbalance.
Plus, I am talking about Biodentical, versus the Typical hormones a Doctor will prescribe.. Big Difference.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

marduk said:


> GGG, I totally understand where you're coming from.
> 
> The thing is, you're here, and he's not.
> 
> ...



Hoepfully he knows of her medical issues, and understands why the sex is not there. If he cannot live with it, then he is free to leave. I think he would be aware of her medical procedures and why her sex drive is near nonexistent. But his irrational behavior makes his logic irrational as well. If he does not pay attention that she is going through treatment for her hormones, then the marriage has even more issues than his jealousy. And if his jealous nature is making him use selective reasoning, then there is nothing she can do but let him control her life so he can feel secure.

It will boil around his jealous and insecure nature. She is improving her life, and his probable fear is that she will leave him. So he punishes her for his insecurities. He wants to stop her from studying, from making herself more,so he can feel more secure in the outcomes he wants.

He needs something to make him face himself. He has not done so, and it has gotten worse when she made decisions to have some control over her own life. I would honestly advise her to tell him to go seek help or this relationship will not last. Sure she can compromise by stopping the one on one studying, but no matter what, she will be around other males. And if he would rather ignore the facts that her sexual issues are due to medical reasons instead of what his jealous and insecure nature is twisting the information so it can justify his own behavior, then why would she want to work things out with someone like that.

Whether mael or female, no one wants to be around that. Her medical issue, her telling him what she is doing and where she is, is being disregarded to due to his issues. Someone with irrational behavior needs to come to the realization on their own that they need help. She can placate him, but that will only make him reinforce that his irrationality is the correct decision.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

OP, maybe he is projecting on to you what he may already done.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Hoepfully he knows of her medical issues, and understands why the sex is not there. If he cannot live with it, then he is free to leave. I think he would be aware of her medical procedures and why her sex drive is near nonexistent. But his irrational behavior makes his logic irrational as well. If he does not pay attention that she is going through treatment for her hormones, then the marriage has even more issues than his jealousy. And if his jealous nature is making him use selective reasoning, then there is nothing she can do but let him control her life so he can feel secure.
> 
> It will boil around his jealous and insecure nature. She is improving her life, and his probable fear is that she will leave him. So he punishes her for his insecurities. He wants to stop her from studying, from making herself more,so he can feel more secure in the outcomes he wants.
> 
> ...


If it were me, knowing she had this problem and was willing to do whatever it took to make it work however best she could would be light years different than "I have this problem, deal with it or leave."

At least for me.

I agree that insecurity is a turn off. But you can't turn a light off that is already off.

My read is that he's panicking.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

marduk said:


> If it were me, knowing she had this problem and was willing to do whatever it took to make it work however best she could would be light years different than "I have this problem, deal with it or leave."
> 
> At least for me.
> 
> ...



His jealousy is a big part of his personality. When does placating irrational behavior solve anything? When she receives her degree, she will want to do something with it, and that is a male dominant field as well.

He was still jealous even before she went to school, and was better in control of it because she was home where he did not have to worry as much.

Sounds like he wants her isolated so he has some kind of control. If he is acting this way, should she drop out of school to placate him? Even in class, she is interacting with other males as well.

People with jealous, anger, drug, or other major issues in most cases need a catastrophic event to stop them from thinking on the norm. His jealous nature is his norm,and if it works in stopping her from living her own life, growing as a person,finding happiness within herself, it will prove to him if he continues this behavior, it will work. Look at people with abusive behavior, he shows some of the same signs and patterns. And his jealousy escalated when she does something that will improve herself, and give her a life of her own.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Mr.Fisty said:


> His jealousy is a big part of his personality. When does placating irrational behavior solve anything? When she receives her degree, she will want to do something with it, and that is a male dominant field as well.
> 
> He was still jealous even before she went to school, and was better in control of it because she was home where he did not have to worry as much.
> 
> ...


Sure.

The thing is, she's here, he's not. If she wants to make it work the "why" he's behaving this way needs to come out.

As is the reason why she's in "take it or leave it" mode.

That's not very collaborative.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

marduk said:


> Sure.
> 
> The thing is, she's here, he's not. If she wants to make it work the "why" he's behaving this way needs to come out.
> 
> ...



He's been behaving that way for years, and that will take therapy to help him figure it out.

That type of ingrained behavior leaves little room for collaboration. Besides giving in to him, there is little compromise she can do. She can eliminate the one on one studying, but there will still be males in the study group. Unless he wants her to stop studying all together with others that can help her out. When she finds a job, will she promise him she will avoid all males, because she will most likely have to form working relationships.

It has been years, and his jealousy has only gotten worse. Any action she takes that vindicates his actions will reinforce that his actions are the correct ones. By her taking a stand, and asking him to seek help or she is gone, it will either make him work on himself, or continue to behave in this manner.

If a spouse has an anger issue, I wouldn't suggest to that spouse to see what they can do to eliminate irrational anger. He is lashing out at her already. Because he lacks control over her, he is treating her poorly. Plus, when will he be rational enough to deal with? If she continues to go to school, she will be around highly intelligent males.

What would it take to stop his jealous nature, because he was still jealous and controlling when she was a SAHM? If she dropped out, and goes back to being a SAHM, will the jealousy and insecurities lessen enough for him to listen to her?

She needs to know if he is willing to seek help, before she continues to placate him. She sounds like she is tired of dealing with it after years of it, and she may be close to a limit herself. If she has to give up a lot of what she wants, is the relationship worth being in? As it stands, she can have better personal growth without him as a barrier to making herself a better person. And this is an idea I pose to her, is the relationship worth what she wants from her life? Because she does not have a supportive partner backing her up.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Mr.Fisty said:


> He's been behaving that way for years, and that will take therapy to help him figure it out.
> 
> That type of ingrained behavior leaves little room for collaboration. Besides giving in to him, there is little compromise she can do. She can eliminate the one on one studying, but there will still be males in the study group. Unless he wants her to stop studying all together with others that can help her out. When she finds a job, will she promise him she will avoid all males, because she will most likely have to form working relationships.
> 
> ...


How about:

"Husband, your jealousy and insecurity is driving me crazy and making me question our relationship. Why are you behaving this way?"

And then, you know, actually listen.

I would be absolutely floored if her losing her sex drive and not doing much about it (from his perspective) wasn't tied up in there somewhere.

From a guy that's been jealous and insecure and been through therapy about it: there's two basic drives to being controlling because of insecurity:

Either to make yourself safe, or to dominate.

For me, it was the former. I had work to do... and, gasp, so did she. I needed to chill, and stop controlling... and she needed to stop triggering jealousy and insecurity stuff so I could do that.

It's a collaborative approach. It takes two to tango.

Besides, we can heap all the blame on the guy as much as we like, and it isn't going to achieive anything: he's not here.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

marduk said:


> How about:
> 
> "Husband, your jealousy and insecurity is driving me crazy and making me question our relationship. Why are you behaving this way?"
> 
> ...



They have tried workshops, books, retreat, and now heading for MC.

His jealousy is so bad that he triggers if she shaves her legs. He states that she admitts to certain things while under the influence of ambien, but he will not tell her what she said. If she does not defend herself, then he feels like he is vindicated, and if she defends herself, then she has something to hide when he attacks her. Pretty much her doing hair, wearing make-up, or whatever she does to enhance her looks are all signs that she is already cheating. Plus, he is threatened by the male intellectuals, which if she wants a career, she will be around all the time, and building working relationship. She tried telling him how she feels, but all he sees is signs. He hears what he wants, and twists her words and actions.

If he is threatened and triggered by male intellectual, she will have to avoid male intellectuals so he would not trigger. He keeps attacking her, and telling her she is better off with other men. He is either projecting the cheating, or what he imagines inside his head as reality.

So, if she wants him to stop triggering, she cannot wear make-up, shave her legs, wear clothes that show a hint of anything,do her nails,and be around any males he finds threatening, especially intellectuals. She has already operated on egg shells for over a decade. When she takes her children out with a gf, she makes herself presentable, but before she gets inside the home, she undoes it to stop his suspicion.

Oh, she has seen hormone specialists. She had a bad reaction. She stated that he does not take into account her hysterectomy.

To eliminate all those triggers, she has to stop shaving, wearing clothes that offer a hint of her body, working on her hair, be around intellectual males, or any other males that he feels is better than he is, so she needs to drop out of school in order for him not to trigger.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Ok MrFisty, what she should do is say to him:
take me, or 
leave me.

My point is not that he isn't causing a big problem. Clearly, he is.

My point is that she needs to do some work, too.

And this comes from a guy that was very insecure and controlling for a time...

I don't think the shaving or any of the other stuff is actually the trigger. At least I would be surprised if it was.

There are 'root' triggers and triggers that 'irritate' the root.

Get at the root (in this case I think it could be her lack of sex drive) and you may reduce the other 'irritation' triggers that are really just symptoms, not the root cause.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

GottaGettaGrip,

Patricia Evan's book, "Controlling People" comes to mind here. Might be worth a look.

I don't recall if she talks much in that book about controlling behavior that is coupled with jealousy. She might. Does he seem controlling even when there is no apparent link to concern about other men?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

marduk said:


> My point is that she needs to do some work, too.


My work in the last couple of years (IC, reading books, reading and posting here) has made a difference in my relationship with my wife. I don't think our marriage is viable, but what I have learned has enabled me to set limits and have some success in curbing her mistreatment of me and the kids. It has also reduced the uncertainty I used to feel about "is ths normal?", "am I causing this?", "should I comply?", "should I jump through this hoop, just to try to get her to behave differently?"

She did nothing, for the most part, from my perspective, except stop behavior that never should have existed in the first place. I am clearer now the prospects of her becoming the partner I hoped for.

By doing work on myself, I am decoupling myself from her problems and from our incompatability. That and other things makes my work worthwhile, even though I think she has been a big contributor to our very unhappy years.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

In regards to the lack of sex thing (in which OP knows where it's coming from, and can't handle the appropriate therapy - fair enough, by the way), the term "fake it til you make it" comes to mind.

Sex is like that, especially in marriage. If it's simply not happening because of problem "x" or "y", and it's impacting your spouses view of you and your marriage, AND you can't/won't fix it (for valid reasons, and sometimes not-so-valid reasons), then it needs to be a conscious decision on your part to just DO it.

I don't mean daily, and I don't mean in the car, in the park, in the theater. Just do it. Semi-regularly to start, then increase the frequency with your comfort levels.

Here's the thing: it will help HIM. Maybe not immediately, and maybe with just baby steps, but it will have a positive effect on him, as long as YOU are being positive about it.

He clearly has many other issues, but something as simple as this can often be a good start.

Related: LD, for whatever reason, ends up being more an excuse than anything, imo. Yes, in this case there are valid-ish reasons for being low or no drive. But that doesn't prevent you from having sex. If it's not on your radar, MAKE it on your radar. Put it there. It's important to your husband, therefore it should be important to YOU.

I'm not much one for golfing. I don't mind it, it can be fun, but I never think of it, and I don't care one way or the other if I ever golf again. If my wife LOVED golf, and wanted me to be, at least an occasional golfing partner, then I would bloody well take up golf. If she wants to play every day, but my limit is once a week, I will darn well play golf with her once a week, and have fun doing it. Maybe twice a week occasionally. Maybe I'll actually grow to love the game. Or just the time spent with her.

If my reason for not playing golf isn't just limited to "I don't care about it", and I actually have a recurring injury or something, then I'd seek out help to alleviate whatever issue I had, so I can play golf with my wife. I'd do everything in my power to join my wife in doing something she loves, or even needs. Why? Because she's my wife and it's important to her.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm not sure if anyone else already said this or not, but the ambien thing is totally common. Many people do sleep walk, appearing to be fully awake, and have full conversations with others who do not realize they are not awake and aware. It causes this problem in many people. Some people have even gotten up out of bed and gone out to drive away in their cars! Sleep driving!

And of course you will not necessarily tell people your waking truth if you are in a sleep walking talking ambien haze. Whatever you have confessed to your H in this state is no more real than a dream you shared with him in the morning.

Though of course, your H will not believe this.

Anyway I just wanted to assure you that this is normal with ambien, it does not mean you are abusing it, but you most definitely need to get a different sleep aid due to your circumstances. Seriously, check out this article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/15/ambien-side-effect-sleepwalking-sleep-aid_n_4589743.html


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Alex...no one should have sex with an abusive person. 

And to suggest her LD is just an excuse was just pure projection, IMO.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Alex, I have thought many times my needs are not much when it comes to sexual intimacy, and had my wife made a conscious choice to regularly throw me crumbs without throwing in contempt along with it, then the past several years would have gone alot better for us both.



However, it didn't happen that way, and there is a reason for it.



I'd say the suggestion of faking it until you make it is only relevant to those whose choice to have sex or not is as emotionally neutral as we imagine the choice to play golf or not is emotionally neutral.



In abusive situations, I'm guessing we would all agree faking it and providing sex is not to be encouraged, as FW mentions.



I'll add that if the LD partner fakes it while harboring resentments and feeling discomfort and pain, then that is a recipe for disaster. (Look up Sexual Aversion, on the marriage builders site (I think... Harville?....imago?))


ETA: The SexualAversion article is by Dr. Willard Harley (not Harville!). It can be found here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5047_qa.html




Interesting to me is I have asked my wife to come along a few times and join me in something I like that I would classify as emotionally neutral as golf. She has always declined. I would agree there are some mismatches in desire where the partner uninterested in sex could choose to provide what the other partner hungers for, and through indifference to their partner chooses not to. I may be in that situation, not sure. So, I think I see your point for such situations. But, given the water under my bridge, I wouldn't want her to just fake it from here forward. If I'm just not loved by her so be it, and I'd rather deal with that reality.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm not sure if anyone else already said this or not, but the ambien thing is totally common. Many people do sleep walk, appearing to be fully awake, and have full conversations with others who do not realize they are not awake and aware. It causes this problem in many people. Some people have even gotten up out of bed and gone out to drive away in their cars! Sleep driving!
> 
> And of course you will not necessarily tell people your waking truth if you are in a sleep walking talking ambien haze. Whatever you have confessed to your H in this state is no more real than a dream you shared with him in the morning.
> 
> ...


My H uses Ambien some nights.

He has said some crazy things (totally inappropriate for him to say) and has zero memory of it in the morning.


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