# Two year plan



## RealMe (Apr 14, 2016)

Hi,

I have been treading water in my marriage for a long time. When it became clear that things were never going to get much better, I committed myself to keeping the marriage together until both of the kids were 18. Our first just turned 18 and will head off to college soon. Our second still has two years left of high school. At that point I will move on with my life.

I have many years of pent up frustration about how my wife has handled her chosen roles within our marriage. Going through the forums here, we also have issues common to many posters here. I am not going to through them here in this post, but I will say that they have contributed to where we are now. I assume that she would say the same about me. At the risk of seeming cold and calculating, I am going to avoid dragging those issues into this post. It would feel good to vent, but would just muddy the water.

The pertinent facts are that she was a stay at home spouse by choice until she earned her advanced degree. After getting back into the workforce for a while, the company that she worked for couldn't afford to keep her so she voluntarily left (not a layoff). That coincided with some health problems, so she didn't look for another job at the time. Once the health problems were well behind her, she chose to stay at home instead of looking for another job. I supported that decision at the time, with the assumption that as the kids grew and needed less supervision that she would reenter the workforce.

I was fortunate enough to land a job that pays above the going rate for my skills, and almost enough to support our family of 4 on a single income. "Almost enough" means that we've slowly racked up some debt that we are slowly paying down, but we're living paycheck to paycheck. Unfortunately, I have been at loggerheads with my boss for many years. After looking for other job opportunities, there are none that pay nearly as well as what I am being paid now. My wife is aware that I am extremely unhappy at my job, and we have talked about her taking a job to replace the lost income if I take a lower paying job that is less stressful and more personally satisfying and rewarding. She has never followed through. The few times that I asked how the job search was coming, she told me that she was working on updating her resume. I stopped asking. As I read this, it sounds like venting but it seems relevant to me.

In summary, I am extremely unhappy both at work and in my marriage, two of the three biggest parts of my life. My relationship with my kids is fantastic, and I would't trade that for having walked away earlier. I realize that there is some risk that my relationship with my kids will change, but I need to focus on my well being. 

That brings me to the two year plan. When our youngest is old enough, I want to move on with my life. From a debts and assets point of view, we are paying down about $25,000 worth of student loans (hers). We have about $20,000 in credit card debt that we are slowly making progress on. These are round numbers (I don't want to get too specific here) but give a picture of things. We have about 12 years left on our mortgage. We own our vehicles, but with two kids driving the insurance is a factor. We do have some assets. Thanks to employer matching and some dumb luck there is about $250k in my retirement account and $30k in hers. The house has about $100k equity. I have a classic car that went from being worth nothing to appreciating considerably over the last few years thanks to the classic car craze.

If the marriage could be saved, and the debts paid off, we would have a good start towards retirement. That's a big frustration for me, but I am ready to be done. Although my wife has an advanced degree, I assume that I will have to pay alimony. I've been looking at web sites for the laws in this state, but most of them just give lists of things that a judge will consider. Nothing's very concrete.

If I sell the classic car and pay down debts over the next two years instead, we would (hopefully) enter divorce with some balance on her student loans but hopefully no other major debts than the house. I can't help but wonder if that will work against me. I am now thinking that if we begin the divorce process now, the judge will take a combination of our debts and assets into consideration. I am emotionally torn between keeping my self-imposed goal of keeping the marriage together until my kids are both 18 and starting the process now so that I will be free to move on with my life at that time.

Another issue that springs to mind is my salary. Once I am out of this marriage, I will move on from this job. My salary will decrease by about 15%. I don't want the divorce settlement to be based on my current job, which I am really only staying in so that we can pay down our debts prior to getting divorced. If I find another job now, and find a way to live with the reduced income then I will have two years of history at a reduced salary before divorcing, which would seem to work in my favor.

I would prefer not to read replies telling me that my wife should work to pay down her student loan debts. I already know that. The only person that I have any ability to work with is myself, so I am looking for ways to plan and manage the final couple of years of my marriage in a way that results in the best outcome for both of us post marriage. When I say "both of us", I mean that while I am frustrated with my wife, I need to know that she will be able to transition well. She will need to get a job, which will take time - during which I will be supporting her. Of course, the courts will get decide how much time is reasonable but I can't control that.

I have considered telling her now that I plan to divorce her in two years, hoping that she will start the job search sooner rather than later. I can't see that going well though, and I don't want to turn over the apple cart while our youngest is in the critical last years of high school and transitioning to college.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

So what is this story "I have been treading water in my marriage for a long time. When it became clear that things were never going to get much better, "?

I am not going to give you advice on how financially to exit a marriage in two years unless it is hopeless. Many of us have marriage problems. That is why we are here. Let's hear the about the marriage issues. 

BTW, why would she rush to get a job now rather than wait two years and get larger alimony from you? Not going to happen.

Do you love your wife?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

It appears to me you are financially overwhelmed and pinning the situation on your W. Remember you are part of the overall picture of debt. You help make the mess. Blaming you W is not the correct response. Going headlong into D will only make this financial discourse worse and lawyers richer. I think your efforts would be best suited to fixing what you have in hand.

BTW, you are assuming your W will go quietly.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Sooo.... Why can't your Marriage be saved? What is so bad that would make you choose to divorce? If you're worried about finances, it will get much, much worse when you D. You'll be expected to pay for your children's college--which if your married you can't be coerced into--as well as having to split things relatively 50/50. 100% of 280,000 is a lot more than 50% of it. And you will be splitting retirements.


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## RealMe (Apr 14, 2016)

Fair enough. I don't know how to write about my marriage in a way that doesn't sound like a laundry list of complaints that minimizes the good things about it. It's also difficult to talk about issues from my perspective in a way that isn't judgmental of her, and doesn't sound like I'm rationalizing or defending either of us. I understand that all of our issues take two people to create and to solve, but I feel like I'm the only one interested in solving them. 

You can probably guess from the ages of our kids, but we've been married many years. It's hard to summarize those years in a short post. I'll try to stick to the basics. 

She worked before the kids were born. During our 1st pregnancy we discussed how being a full time mom/home maker would affect our finances. In hindsight I made some assumptions about my expectations about other household roles that have turned into issues for me. I expected that she would take responsibility for basic household stuff while I focused on earning money. 

I realize that this is my perspective, but it seemed like she was always watching TV. I would come home from work, and she'd be watching. Dinner seemed like an afterthought. Today it's her tablet. It's always on, and she's always watching it. When I come to bed at night, I am competing with it for her attention. I can spoon up behind her and try to get her attention for conversation or affection, but most of the time end up rolling back over and falling asleep while she watches whatever.

She has always been good with calendars and schedules, and took care of the bills. That didn't work out. She focused herself on the kids, but running the household wasn't a priority. We would have guests over at birthdays, which meant spending a day or two before hand getting the house in order. One of those times I found boxes of unopened mail, and started sorting through it. There were unpaid bills, late notices, and collection notices. We were doing okay at the time, with enough to cover our expenses but all of the late fees and charges made things tight. We got it all taken care of, and things went back to normal until the next time I found boxes of unopened mail. There were uncashed rebate checks, an insurance payout that hadn't been cashed, and more notices and late fees. I started opening all of the mail myself and letting her know when things needed to be paid, but we had started getting behind. I should have stepped up to the plate sooner, I guess.

After having the kids, sex dwindled to nothing. After reading many threads here, I realize that I am not alone in the way that I felt. When I eventually felt completely disconnected from my wife I asked her to go to marriage counselling, and she agreed. We spent a few months talking about our issues, including sex. Things improved for a while but it has always been a low energy commitment where we have sex when she's interested, which was about twice a month for a long time. We talked about it several times, but she just isn't very interested in sex. I got tired of initiating and being shot down, so I learned how to get by on my own. It is enough to get me by, but it's lonely and I want a partner. I have been somewhat persistent in telling her that sex is important to our marriage, emphasizing the connection that we should have. She once told me that she knows when it's been too long since we've had sex because I get irritable. If I try to initiate, the tablet gets priority. If she comes to bed naked then I know that she's open to having sex. And, to be fair, when that happens she seems to enjoy it. But it's always very one sided. In the past 6 months things have gone up to once a week usually, but still only when she's interested and the focus is usually on her.

I'm was tired of feeling like I was alone in a marriage with someone who's primary focus is on watching TV, but also felt like being a stay at home mom wasn't a good fit for her. When she told me that she wanted to go back to school, I hoped that it would spark her interest in life. She did well, graduated, and started working. She seemed happy, but seemed to give up after the job dried up. She went through some health issues, however once those were behind her she didn't show any interest in going back to work. The kids were in school full time, but she wasn't interested in working part time. I made up a budget spreadsheet, and asked her to help me fill it out. It showed that we were making minimum payments on cards and on her student loans. When I asked her to please get a job so that we could manage our expenses better, she agreed but never followed through. About a year ago I realized that my relationship with my boss is toxic, and that I'm not getting anywhere in my career. I had a heart to heart with her about getting a job so that I could find something that doesn't suck out my soul, and she agreed. She hasn't made any effort.

I grew to hate her attachment to the TV, and got her to agree to get rid of cable TV to cut down on our expenses. I needed Internet for my job though, and she just switched over to finding web sites with TV programs to watch. Then came a Netflix subscription. I realized a few months ago that I've started spending more time watching some shows because I'm bored. I don't have a relationship with my wife to speak of, and our occasional attempts to reconnect outside of the bedroom are lackluster. I have consistently made efforts to reconnect with her, but lately my heart hasn't been into it. I am just ready to move on and build a new life.

So, while I am lonely, bitter, and resentful, she's not a bad person. I really need to figure out a plan to make the transition as easy as possible, and ensure that I am financially able to live independently with a decent quality of life. I would also like to get our finances into a position where she can start over without debt dragging her down. The cars are paid off. When the kids move out, the house will be too big for her but my guess is that the courts would give it to her.

That's the full story, from my side anyway.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

I will ask again. Do you love your wife?


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## RealMe (Apr 14, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Do you love your wife?


Yes. Life would be much easier if I didn't. Just really tired of being emotionally exhausted.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Thank you for your honesty.

There is another option.

It is high risk, but it also has the potential for high reward.


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

If you love your wife and you think there is some hope to the marriage then tell her everything that you told us, how you feel and that divorce has crossed your mind. Tell her you don't want to come second to TV and that you are her husband, not her paycheck and she needs to treat you like one. If she still can't seem to understand, then do the 180 on her. If she wants sex, refuse it. Start sleeping in another room or on the couch. Treat her like a roommate. It will get her nervous because you had mentioned divorce to her and she may want to try more. 

Also, she may need some one on one counseling. She probably had her self esteem busted when her job couldn't afford to keep her anymore. She might be afraid that she isn't good enough and doesn't think any job will keep her. Usually people who have depression stop caring and suck themselves into TV or video games and can't perform other responsibilities in the house, like the lack of opening mail and paying bills, household duties, etc.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

DanielleBennett said:


> If you love your wife and you think there is some hope to the marriage then tell her everything that you told us, how you feel and that divorce has crossed your mind. Tell her you don't want to come second to TV and that you are her husband, not her paycheck and she needs to treat you like one. If she still can't seem to understand, then do the 180 on her. If she wants sex, refuse it. Start sleeping in another room or on the couch. Treat her like a roommate. It will get her nervous because you had mentioned divorce to her and she may want to try more.
> 
> Also, she may need some one on one counseling. She probably had her self esteem busted when her job couldn't afford to keep her anymore. She might be afraid that she isn't good enough and doesn't think any job will keep her. Usually people who have depression stop caring and suck themselves into TV or video games and can't perform other responsibilities in the house, like the lack of opening mail and paying bills, household duties, etc.



Agreed. If you lay it out on the table and request some changes but it is ignored all the same then delivering D papers is warranted. However, there needs to be communication between the both of you. When communication fails all is lost.


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> Agreed. If you lay it out on the table and request some changes but it is ignored all the same then delivering D papers is warranted. However, there needs to be communication between the both of you. When communication fails all is lost.


Exactly! You can't expect any positive changes to happen if you each don't communicate. If she isn't communicating on her end, then help her. Nudge her.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Actually, it takes one to create the problem as well, and it affects both. People do have their own autonomy here. Actions create a ripple effect that spreads outwards and affects others whether good or bad and can change those they have influence over.

Question is why we stay without working it out or just putting up with things the way they are. Being passive, especially in a bad environment slowly changes us and before we know it, years advance and we look into the mirror and ask how we got here. The simple answer is one step at a time.

Since regret does nothing for the current situation, what is the important question, what now. What steps can we take to improve ourselves. How much of our shiet is our own and how much does those around us affect us?

Doing nothing has not worked so far. Why did you allow her to neglect you? What made you stay for years being miserable in the relationship department, is the children a good enough reason why?

Btw, I view neglect as betrayal as well. You trust someone to hold their end of the bargain, and if they cannot, at least have the decency to leave but she ended up using you and not be loving. I assume from what you describe, it was mostly you giving and she taking. If she loved you, then that love would be reflected in action. I am sure she cares or assumes so, but she does not love you enough or is not motivated enough to do anything to meet you half-way.

Your course is either do the same and wait, or shake things up, hoping for a change and see if she wakes up from her delusions. If she thinks that she can neglect on her own end and have someone remain by her side as she repeatedly cuts you, that is just delusional. Is that not betrayal and a blatant one at that.


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## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

You know you talk a lot about your financial issues, but my back of the envelope calculations shows you sitting with about $45K in unsecured debt and $100K equity in your home. That doesn't even account for the classic car that you haven't told of us told us the value regarding. So your financial situation is not really that bad if you two were to stay together. I suspect you know that too. And as the other posters have said it will get worse, much worse for you with a divorce.
So if there any way to work on fixing this thing I would work on fixing it. I too would begin by laying your case out to your wife. I suspect she will be more motivated than you think to work on the marriage. Try it and see. What do you have to lose?


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Your two year plan will not work. First of all you made the mistake of letting her quite work. Now that she knows the freeloader lifestyle, she'll never go back to being productive. If you divorce her she'll never go to work and the court won't force her. You'll just end up paying for her lifestyle the rest of your life. You also have way too much debt. The debt and her not working will make it so you won't be able to afford to leave.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Thank you for your honesty.
> 
> There is another option.
> 
> It is high risk, but it also has the potential for high reward.


I am intrigued...what's the other option. At first I thought you were implying murder...


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## I will rise again (Apr 13, 2016)

I am perplexed why you have a two year plan. It sounds like being financially secure before havin a baby, but this time for a divorce. Life is too short to stay in a an unhappy relationship. Money is not going to solve things, your happiness will and that doesn't need to cost anything, you are all grown ups, you will find your way. It sounds like time to move on, do what makes you happy! Forget the money!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Herschel said:


> I am intrigued...what's the other option. At first I thought you were implying murder...


Lol. Enticing to imagine in some instances, but a complicated reality.

:grin2:

There is another option. To make himself a great man.

1. Focus on making himself the best partner, lover and father that he possibly can. This would involve serving his wife and making her feel like she is a priority again.

2. Actually communicate to his wife that either their relationship improves one year from putting her on notice or it ends.

3. Commit to actually communicating with his wife and reestablishing emotional intimacy, which they are clearly lacking.

In your case, @Herschel, I would not recommend it. Your wife has earned herself a first rate divorce and not much else.

But in this posters case, I think he could really turn it around. It isn't easy. It took my wife and I the better part of two years. But we are better now that ever, largely due to our level of emotional intimacy.


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## Zanne (Dec 7, 2012)

.


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## Zanne (Dec 7, 2012)

.


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## Zanne (Dec 7, 2012)

.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Zanne said:


> Actually, the courts _can_ make her work, depending on her circumstances: age, health, education, etc. The days of lifetime alimony are waning in most states.


I my state I know for sure there still is lifetime alimony and it's that way it is most states. I'm actually surprised to hear some states don't have it...maybe it's time to move??


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## Zanne (Dec 7, 2012)

.


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## Zanne (Dec 7, 2012)

.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> 1. Focus on making himself the best partner, lover and father that he possibly can. This would involve serving his wife and making her feel like she is a priority again.
> 
> 2. Actually communicate to his wife that either their relationship improves one year from putting her on notice or it ends.
> 
> 3. Commit to actually communicating with his wife and reestablishing emotional intimacy, which they are clearly lacking.


:iagree::iagree:

This one year plan will be a heck of a lot more emotionally and financially rewarding than the Two Year Plan.

OP, what do you think?


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## RealMe (Apr 14, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> 1. Focus on making himself the best partner, lover and father that he possibly can. This would involve serving his wife and making her feel like she is a priority again.
> 
> 2. Actually communicate to his wife that either their relationship improves one year from putting her on notice or it ends.
> 
> 3. Commit to actually communicating with his wife and reestablishing emotional intimacy, which they are clearly lacking.


I continue to do all of these, and it is emotionally exhausting (with the exception of being the best father, that's a joy). We talked in marriage counselling, and I have brought it up a few times since then. The result is usually short lived.

When I decided that I would rather be in a family with the kids than not be in their lives 24/7 I made a commitment to myself to stay in the game so that the marriage would have a chance to turn around. It hasn't. 

I am not going to manipulate her with a threat of divorce. Temporary improvements just drag things out and painfully delay the inevitable. I just want to move on as cleanly as possible, while trying to contain the damage as much as possible.

I am still committed to seeing our 2nd graduate and move on first, but realize that a subsequent divorce is likely to change my relationship with my kids. They are great kids, with a lot of potential. My biggest fear is that it will change their own romantic relationships.

With regard to the posts about divorce laws, short of moving to other states I will definitely have a reduced standard of living. I'm just trying to work out how to make the best use of the time that we have left to grease the skids.

I got online today and ordered a couple of parts that I need to get the car ready to sell. Paying off some of the debt will get rid of some interest, and make it easier to pay off the rest between now and when number 2 graduates. It seems like reaching that point with no debt but the house should make things easier. House payments are kind of steep due to a 15 year note, but once its paid off I should hopefully have enough to start working towards retirement again.

I suppose one good thing is that having someone call my wife a freeloader kind of pisses me off. It over-simplifies things considerably. It's not like she should be putting out in exchange for having the bills paid. 

Thanks for all of the responses. Something to think about, anyway.


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## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

Then you need to sit down with a lawyer and understand just how big a hit you are going to take financially. Here's a start, she gets half the retirement, so are you ready to keep working for a good long time?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

RealMe said:


> I continue to do all of these, and it is emotionally exhausting (with the exception of being the best father, that's a joy). We talked in marriage counselling, and I have brought it up a few times since then. The result is usually short lived.
> 
> When I decided that I would rather be in a family with the kids than not be in their lives 24/7 I made a commitment to myself to stay in the game so that the marriage would have a chance to turn around. It hasn't.
> 
> ...


It is not manipulation. It is clearly communicating a boundary.

"Wife, I want to have a marriage with intimacy, both emotional and physical. I know we have discussed it at length, but I have reached the end of my rope. Every day that goes by without intimacy kills what love I have left for you. I would much prefer to remain married to you, but if our intimacy has not dramatically improved by x date, I will have no choice but to divorce. I sincerely hope you choose to work with me and commit to make our marriage great again."

But hey...it's not my marriage. Do what you can live with.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

RealMe said:


> I continue to do all of these, and it is emotionally exhausting (with the exception of being the best father, that's a joy). We talked in marriage counselling, and I have brought it up a few times since then. The result is usually short lived.
> 
> When I decided that I would rather be in a family with the kids than not be in their lives 24/7 I made a commitment to myself to stay in the game so that the marriage would have a chance to turn around. It hasn't.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you already have a good plan in the works. I am sorry that you and your wife will not be able to settle your disputes and work out your differences and I am glad to know that you aren't going to leave her in a bad situation. Divorce is tough enough on the emotions. Good luck.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Zanne said:


> I've been doing a lot of research on the subject and it appears that the tide is turning. Rehabilitative alimony is becoming more accepted.
> 
> I live in California, but my divorce will be filed in Minnesota. This is the case for those two states.
> 
> ...


Hey this is GREAT news. If they enact this in my state, maybe I can financially justify a divorce. The inital 70% of everything hit is so devistating it may well still not be wise. If your STBX refuses to work are they then forced into welfare?


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

unfortunately, you are at the point where you do need to create a crisis and follow through your words. What has she learned over the years. She can neglect and use you for her convenience and nothing occurs besides you eventually giving up. You are a clear example of a walk-away-spouse in the making. Tired of trying, communication fails, biding your time and creating an escape strategy.

Human psychology, people will often follow the path of least resistance, meaning your wife so far has not shown change because there does not need to be any complete change and thus little to no effort in that regard. As I previously posted, she is in her own fog and my advice for shaking things up is a chance to help clear that fog. Personally, I could not blame you for giving up on the marriage either, it is not your responsibility to make another give effort, and it is your choice to whether risk things and be a possible catalyst for change. What is there to say, in the end, she is responsible mostly for the state she is in if you walk and had ample opportunity over the years, she is the one in the end that needs to remove the blinders.

In the meantime,you should be looking after yourself and what you want and need since if you were in a mutual relationship, you both would take each other into consideration. Since she obviously does not put that much energy into you as she does herself, someone needs to expend that energy looking after one's self.

Here is another thing to consider as well. You have the knowledge that you can change the environment by detaching and slowly changing your circumstance for future happiness whether with or without her. She has been allowed to dictate the environment and you have mostly responded to it. If you change, she will either adjust or not. I am guessing if you detach and take a step back, odds are you were the one that changed a lot in response to her own actions, wants, and needs. Thus the imbalance in the relationship and lack thereof. Btw, if you head down the road of changing the environment, it will be a slow process as well. Change is a process as yu well know and you need to stay vigilant and somewhat detach and make her show you she can change or not. Since you are waiting two years, change the circumstance for a year and find out what happens. Disengage, sleep separately from her, make what you want well known and do not reengage until she does those steps and only then reengage a little at a time while keeping on about your exit strategy. Try a two prong approach.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> "Wife, I want to have a marriage with intimacy, both emotional and physical. I know we have discussed it at length, but I have reached the end of my rope. Every day that goes by without intimacy kills what love I have left for you. I would much prefer to remain married to you, but if our intimacy has not dramatically improved by x date, I will have no choice but to divorce. I sincerely hope you choose to work with me and commit to make our marriage great again."


Make it about BOTH of you. 

"Wife, I want us to have a marriage with intimacy, both emotional and physical. Do you not want the same? I know we have discussed it at length, but I have reached a decision point in my life. Every day that goes by without intimacy further kills what love I have left for you. I am sorry, but that is the truth. I want to remain married to you. I do not want our marriage to end in divorce, but if our intimacy does not show improvement in the next ____ months, it is because our marriage is broken and not fixable. Divorce will be eventual if we reach that point. I sincerely hope you will work with me and commit to help me, help us, make our marriage great again for both of us. We both deserve that."

BTW, @RealMe your writing style and words indicate that you have NOT already checked out of this marriage and that you still want it to work. The most telling of all '"having someone call my wife a freeloader kind of pisses me off"


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> Make it about BOTH of you.
> 
> "Wife, I want us to have a marriage with intimacy, both emotional and physical. Do you not want the same? I know we have discussed it at length, but I have reached a decision point in my life. Every day that goes by without intimacy further kills what love I have left for you. I am sorry, but that is the truth. I want to remain married to you. I do not want our marriage to end in divorce, but if our intimacy does not show improvement in the next ____ months, it is because our marriage is broken and not fixable. Divorce will be eventual if we reach that point. I sincerely hope you will work with me and commit to help me, help us, make our marriage great again for both of us. We both deserve that."
> 
> BTW, @RealMe your writing style and words indicate that you have NOT already checked out of this marriage and that you still want it to work. The most telling of all '"having someone call my wife a freeloader kind of pisses me off"


Much better wording in yours, @blueinbr.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Realme, you need to have good solid data on how things will go legally and financially when you divorce. Whether it is today or 3 years from now. If you file in 2 years, it will be another almost year until the divorce goes through probably, so yeah you're looking at about 3 years from now.

You'll be 3 years older. Your health may decline. You'll have fewer options in women, though at this point you shouldn't and probably aren't thinking about getting into another serious long term relationship. Still, when you tally up pros and cons, being older is a con.

You'll have 3 fewer years to save for retirement. You'll have 3 years more assets to split up.

From a cold hearted mathematical perspective, your best bet is to get out of this job you hate asap. Even if you have to economize or not pay off some bills, it is to your advantage in a divorce. Furthermore, your kids get more financial aid from colleges, hopefully in the form of grants and scholarships not loans. Also, being divorced will increase the aid your kids get in college. If you wait, your kids lose a year of the financial aid during which time you are divorced but last year you applied for finaid as married.

Do you think your wife suspects you have been seriously considering divorce? If she has, she may be working her own strategy of not having a job.

You need good solid data on different scenarios as far as the money issues go. Many divorce atty's will give a free consultation, maybe 15 to 30 minutes, where they will answer basic questions and give you the general lay of the land. Obviously they can't delve into all the specific nuances of your situation, but you can find out how things generally go.

Do you know exactly how the alimony works? More years married may mean more alimony or even permanent alimony.


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## Workathome (Aug 30, 2014)

Sounds an awful lot like Coppertop coming back under a new name.


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## RealMe (Apr 14, 2016)

Thanks for the responses,

I have spent a lot of time thinking about things since I last posted. I'm working through things one thing at a time. I have updated my resume and written several cover letters to companies that are a good match for my skills and education. With a little luck things will pan out and I'll be able to walk away from this job, hopefully without taking too big of a cut in pay. Time will tell. I brought up possibly selling the house and downsizing. She balked a bit, but I pointed out that with the kids out of the nest we won't need this much space and can pay down other bills if we have a smaller mortgage. Not to mention that it will make things easier financially if I have to keep paying a mortgage while finding a new place for myself. I plan to see how the job search goes, and see if getting out of this job improves my outlook on the home front before I overturn the apple cart completely.


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

As other posters have suggested, if your wife gets wind of you wanting divorce, if she's in her right mind she won't even consider getting a job, not when according to existing case law in your state she can get about 8 years of alimony, even though Minnesota does not favor long term or permanent support.

Since you're giving yourself a 2 year window, best to prepare now by protecting your ASSets, such as gradually separating finances, lowering your expenses and standard of living by downsizing, and earning less money because when you divorce the more you make and the greater the monthly expenses, the higher your potential liability is going to be. 

If you can, make things look even worse than they are financially so as to convince your wife to get a job, any job. On the bright side, child support won't be an issue, nor will custody, and that's huge.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Zanne said:


> @RealMe, regarding your W, someone else mentioned individual counseling (IC) for her and I agree that it would be helpful, especially as she transitions from this season in her life.
> 
> About the stack of missing bills... IC can help with this too because it is likely related to something within her. For example, I love organizing and I'm a self professed perfectionist, but I'm also a big time procrastinator. I have let important mail stack up until it's too late. It's a stressful way to live, but it has more to do with how I think, not because I am lazy. However, the good news is that we are all capable of learning new habits. You never gave her the chance since you took over the task of opening up the mail.
> 
> ...


This, imagine you have had to give up job, raise kids and spend a great part of your life doing so then are expected to go out and earn your keep while you are basically starting from ground zero, I am doing this now and it is no easy task. i am competing with people who are 20 years younger and in many ways more au fait with the modern work culture. Too many spouses think that this is an easy thing to do. One needs to be made of tough mettle to handle it.

You complain about your job, how difficult, how miserable it is etc but try entering the work force after not being in it for a long time and having to compete with men 20 years younger than you and report to people 10-15 years younger than you, maybe that would change your perspective. 

Too little value is put on raising kids. I am not ashamed to say it but my kids have turned out well in no small part due to me, their father put food on the table, sure but most of their learning, progress, etc was down to me. Of course I'll not get any brownie points as it was an unsalaried position. 
Maybe you too need a new way of thinking. Remember it always takes two hands to clap.
When it comes to finances, maybe your wife is no good at administrative stuff. It would be interesting to hear her side of the story and see if she has a long list of stuff too. Maybe the grass will be greener on the other side but I very much doubt it. You think you will ride of into the sunset and be better off financially etc, I also very much doubt it.
Lastly, I wonder exactly how much of this have you shared with your wife, I guess none or very little. Sharing this might be a good place to start.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

Make sure you aren't doing this mostly because of the financial problems. If that's the case then you are wasting your time because your financial situation will take a serious nose dive after you two split. If you think things are bad now wait until you have to keep that miserable job because you have to have enough money to maintain another household while still supporting her and paying child support. It sounds to me like your wife is lazy, unmotivated, and depressed. If you don't mind can you tell me what she is good at. What are her redeeming qualities? You mentioned that if you told her that you were planning on leaving that it wouldn't turn out well. That means that she doesn't really have a true idea of how miserable you are. If she did then she wouldn't be caught blindsided and she would have an idea that it might be coming. Also, you have several sources of frustration in your life right now. You're relationship with your wife, your finances, and your job situation. If you subtract one or two of those from the equation things might be more manageable. Also keep in mind that you cannot hide misery so when she's around you you will be projecting that whether you like it or not. If your job is sucking the life out of you then flat out tell her that you will be leaving the job within a month or two and that she can either work or you will have to downsize your lifestyle. She can ignore you but she cannot avoid math. If you don't physically have the money to pay for things then they won't get paid for period. Hell be honest with her. Break it down for her just like this. Say "Look honey, I know that you do not want to work and that you are content with watching television and being on your ipad all day. This really pisses me off because it puts more of a burden on me and it's such a waste of your potential. I love you anyway and want to stay true to the commitment I made to this marriage so in order to let you keep living the way you want and in order for me not to be miserable in a job that I hate we need to sell the house. I know it will be hard but this will allow us to both get what we want and be happy." If you break it down like this it might give her a new perspective.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think that first moving to a new job now is a good idea ad so is downsizing to a new house. There doesn't seem to be any stipulation that your wife does at least something to keep you afloat. You can't be expected to do everything by yourself. I would keep the plan to divorce her in two years if she doesn't decide to do something or get at least some kind of job. This is the part that seems to be a Catch 22, if you tell her you going to divorce her if she doesn't go back to work, she won't look and she won't do it on her own anyway. For this reason, as soon as you find a better job for lower pay and your youngest son is 18 I would advise you to divorce her.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I agree that you need to be honest with your wife.
I have been a sahm for over 20 years. I homeschooled our three children and am finishing up with the last one in a year or so. Going back into the job market is daunting, but if it were necessary for me to do so it would be a lot easier if I could prepare for it and start looking for a good fit. Maybe starting part time and building confidence and refreshing skills rather than having to take whatever I could find. I think this would be true of your wife as well. Letting her know that you are expecting her to use her degree and to find meaningful work would help. 
Telling her that you are downsizing without letting her know what's really going on isn't really fair. She is living in a world that is not real. You are doing her no favors by doing that to her. If you share with her that you are no longer going to live like this, but are going to do what it takes to live a satisfying and fulfilling life, with or without her, and that includes her finding work, it would give her time to process and do something productive for her own life. This is not all about you. If you include her in your plan, even if it means you are going to divorce her, it will be the right thing to do.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> I agree that you need to be honest with your wife.
> I have been a sahm for over 20 years. I homeschooled our three children and am finishing up with the last one in a year or so. Going back into the job market is daunting, but if it were necessary for me to do so it would be a lot easier if I could prepare for it and start looking for a good fit. Maybe starting part time and building confidence and refreshing skills rather than having to take whatever I could find. I think this would be true of your wife as well. Letting her know that you are expecting her to use her degree and to find meaningful work would help.
> Telling her that you are downsizing without letting her know what's really going on isn't really fair. She is living in a world that is not real. You are doing her no favors by doing that to her. If you share with her that you are no longer going to live like this, but are going to do what it takes to live a satisfying and fulfilling life, with or without her, and that includes her finding work, it would give her time to process and do something productive for her own life. This is not all about you. If you include her in your plan, even if it means you are going to divorce her, it will be the right thing to do.


I disagree, they already decided that things would be better if she went back to work. She didn't try so she really doesn't need to know the rest of the plan. She decided not to do her share.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> I disagree, they already decided that things would be better if she went back to work. She didn't try so she really doesn't need to know the rest of the plan. She decided not to do her share.


No. She has a false sense of security. It is easier for her to stay complacent when she doesn't know what is coming. He has given her false reasons for changing. He lied to her. A person cannot make healthy choices based on lies. She needs to know what is going on in her own life, so she can make better choices for her future. This is not only good for her, but for the entire family.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

RealMe said:


> I plan to see how the job search goes, and see if getting out of this job improves my outlook on the home front before I overturn the apple cart completely.


You know as well as anyone that after twenty years of marriage and counselling, that your marriage is not realistically going to change much. I commend you for thinking this through and developing a plan. My two cents is that you change your job as soon as possible, then sell your home and file for divorce after your last son finishes high school. 

Maybe you'll find a new job that requires you to be away from home often during the next two years.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

How about:
Just heads up so you can make plans for yourself. 
We are getting divorced as soon as last child graduates from high school.
We will be selling the house.
I will no longer work in a job that I hate.
You will need to support yourself. Even with alimony, neither of us will be able to make ends meet if you don't find work.
I'm telling you this now so you have plenty of time to prepare and find something that is fulfilling and you are able to support yourself and prepare for retirement.
This is fair warning, so you are not shocked and left in a hurry to find anything that you can find. This will give you plenty of time to brush up your skills and restart your career.

She could immediately find a volunteer position to gain experience and brush up on her skills. I would encourage her to do that asap. It could also help her get out of the funk she is in.

She needs the cold, hard truth. If you aren't walking in truth with her, you are not walking in integrity and are doing both of you a great disservice.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

RealMe said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have been treading water in my marriage for a long time. When it became clear that things were never going to get much better, I committed myself to keeping the marriage together until both of the kids were 18. Our first just turned 18 and will head off to college soon. Our second still has two years left of high school. At that point I will move on with my life.
> 
> ...


Without you actually giving us any details of your problems, I can only say:- *Grow up, be a man, be a husband to your wife and a father to your children. *

And knock off the divorce planning in the long term. Either you are in the marriage or you are not. You want a soft landing for yourself after you smash your wife's heart to bits? 

That's cold and nasty.

And look at counselling as an option.


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