# Cumulative count for the year



## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

It's mid February - couples in normal relationships should have had sex about 18 times by now this year. I myself am at 1. Woopidy doo!. I told my wife a few weeks ago that I was not going to live in a sexless marriage - she begged and pleaded she would do anything. A few nights later it happened. Now 6 weeks into the year looking at the big picture it's same ole same ole. We had a night off from the kids the other night and guess what 12 hours before their departure the sickness began to set in. I told her don't worry as soon as the kids get back you should start recovering. So tired of this. Anybody else here had sex more than once this year? If so, I am jealous!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Well..... what now?

Are you really willing to end your marriage over this? Otherwise don't threaten it... that's not nice.

Maybe it's time to show her how deadly serious you are. Find a rental house/apartment and move out. File for D.

It may make her realize what she is about to lose and she'll do what she needs to OR one or the other of you will decided your happier apart.

Either way life should improve for you both and you'll be able to build new lives with more compatible people.

Personally I've had more sex since the weekend than you've had this year. I couldn't live in a sexless marriage either. It would be soul destroying.

Wishing you a better life!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

KendalMintcake said:


> It's mid February - couples in normal relationships should have had sex about 18 times by now this year. I myself am at 1. Woopidy doo!. I told my wife a few weeks ago that I was not going to live in a sexless marriage - she begged and pleaded she would do anything. A few nights later it happened. Now 6 weeks into the year looking at the big picture it's same ole same ole. We had a night off from the kids the other night and guess what 12 hours before their departure the sickness began to set in. I told her don't worry as soon as the kids get back you should start recovering. So tired of this. Anybody else here had sex more than once this year? If so, I am jealous!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why might your wife not want sex with you?

Does she hold resentment for anything?

Have you discussed this with her to any depth?

Have you looked into "manning up"?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

As we are 50 days into the year then my guess is I have had sex somewhere between 40 and 60 times this year.

I am not telling you this to show off. I am telling you because I was once where you were and to have even had it once by mid Feb would have been a high number.

Look it is the pits to be in a sexless marriage and honestly I doubt you have much chance of changing that. So you know what your options are, you either put up with it or move on. I really feel terrible for you because both options are incredibly painful but either way you need to find the strength to make the final decision. 

I really do wish you well.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

For my wife and I, I would say we've had sex about 18 times since January, about 3x per week on overall average. I'm good with that but more is definitely better.

Maybe your wife doesn't feel as sexy after having the kids due to weight gain.

Maybe after 2 kids, her hormonal levels are still off and meds are needed.

Have you gained weight and are not as attractive to her?

Raising 2 kids is a job in itself, so I'm sure that takes a lot out of her.

Try this:

Before she gets up, put flowers were she would most likely go in the morning, romantic card, maybe some chocolate treat. Before you leave for work, give her a big hug and rub her back. My wife loves this and falls into me.

Find a common sexual ground. If you have a HD, she has a LD, maybe 3x EVERY week?

Get a baby sitter and take her out to a nice romantic restaurant, movie, nice walk by the beach or park, maybe sit and watch the sky and stars and talk......go from there.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

OP,

I'm not far behind you. Sex 4 or 5 times since New Years and and her's how my days from valentines have gone:

Thu - VD - No sex. I have been off of work since Thu but she had to work Fri AM. I let myself believe that this was the reason. 

Fri - Dinner with friends. Then out to a bar to hear a band we like with these same folks. Danced, laughed, played darts. During this entire time, she would rub my butt, kiss and ug me, sit on my lap etc. Get home and she gets into bed, rolls on her side (back to me) and proceeds to pass out and sleep. I figure "OK, she had a little too much to drink" and let it be (she did have a little too much that night). The next morning, NOTHING

Sat - Think I might be getting the cold she just had. There's a neighbor's party that she (and I) really don't want to go to. Her BFF also said she wasnt going especially if my wife wasn't. Wife tells BFF to text her if she's going. I think "Great, a night in and a chance to make it happen". After a trip to the mall, we are at home and wife stats to text BFF if she's going to the party (WTF, I thought we were staying home?) This starts around 9 PM and involves about 2 or 3 texts to the BFF. 

Bff gets back to her about 20 minutes later that she's at the party that started 2 hours earlier. Wife asks if it's OK to go to party (by this time I realized that she wanted to go regardless of how I felt physically). I decided that I wouldn't say no and let her go hang with BFF (BTW, BFF married too and husband is also at party as well as going out with us the night before). Wife is out the door in under 10 minutes! She got home around midnight

Sun - Wife was asked to go to a planning meeting for a collegue's retirement a few weeks ago. She tells me she doesn't want to go. I say fine, tell them we have plans with friends for dinner. She agrees. Meeting was to start at 6 PM last night. At 6:15, her BFF texts her asking where she is (she never told anyone she wasn't going to be there). She texts BFF that we're out to dinner with friends. BFF says to come by after. Within 20 minutes she's out the door! I went to bed at 10 and she still wasn't home. Around 9:30 she texts that they were having coffee and she's be home soon. I told her I took something to help me sleep so she could stay where she was (I know that's a bit passive/aggressive)

Think she got home around 11. Cleaned some stuff in kitchen, went to bed, rolled on side, went to sleep 

Have done the readings, had talks and even did counseling a few years ago. Things improved but didn't last after every effort that was made. 

If I was younger, I would do as Waiwera has outlined. 

It's too late for me. I'm in way too deep to get out now without serious financial issues for the two of us and the 3 kids. I would get a room somewhere if I could afford to just to get away but where I live, just a room goes for about $400/month 

Run now if you can! Don't let this be you!


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

tacoma said:


> Why might your wife not want sex with you?
> 
> Does she hold resentment for anything?
> 
> ...


I think she resents me for being pretty successful at work and providing her with luxuries such as a maid and not having to work. Yes I have discussed in depth - her answer is always that she is just not interested in sex. Have I manned up - yep - undoubtedly. Sometimes I think she is a lesbian...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> For my wife and I, I would say we've had sex about 18 times since January, about 3x per week on overall average. I'm good with that but more is definitely better.
> 
> Maybe your wife doesn't feel as sexy after having the kids due to weight gain.
> 
> ...


No she is by no means in attractive, I would go as far to say she could be in a magazine as a model. I have not gained weight, I am slightly below average for my height. She has more help than 99% of people raising kids. Yes I do romantic things frequently - back rubs, unsolicited flowers the works. Nothing works!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

Holland said:


> As we are 50 days into the year then my guess is I have had sex somewhere between 40 and 60 times this year.
> 
> I am not telling you this to show off. I am telling you because I was once where you were and to have even had it once by mid Feb would have been a high number.
> 
> ...


Thanks fr your kind words. At this point my post is more for those of you in good situations. Enjoy and cherish what you have. Being me sucks. Feel lucky your spouses appreciate you and be thankful you don't wake up every day hating what happened...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Meltherapist (Feb 25, 2010)

So sorry to hear that you are going through this difficult time in your marriage. It sounds like you are feeling angry and frustrated which is understandable. What you are experiencing is very common and is know as a High desire, Low desire couples dynamic. This dynamic pattern is very complex and it is important not assume that your spouse does not love you or desire you during this sexual impass. There are often many reasons why this type of shut-down occurs. 

It is good that you are discussing your concerns with your wife. I would take this a step further and consider couples counselling. In the intrim I would recommed that you read, The Sex Starved Marriage by Michele Weiner Davis.

Melody Evans M.Sc. R.,Psych,RMFT


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

with all seriousness. do you think she orgasms?

I think the number one reason women lose interest is because they don't orgasm.

and its not your fault if she dosn't orgasm its hers for not telling you what she needs to orgasm.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

KendalMintcake said:


> I think she resents me for being pretty successful at work and providing her with luxuries such as a maid and not having to work. Yes I have discussed in depth - her answer is always that she is just not interested in sex. Have I manned up - yep - undoubtedly. Sometimes I think she is a lesbian...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So why are you providing those things? If she cares so little about you, perhaps you are not speaking in the language she understands.

Consider making your actions consistent with your words.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

KendalMintcake said:


> It's mid February - couples in normal relationships should have had sex about 18 times by now this year. I myself am at 1. Woopidy doo!. I told my wife a few weeks ago that I was not going to live in a sexless marriage - she begged and pleaded she would do anything. A few nights later it happened. Now 6 weeks into the year looking at the big picture it's same ole same ole. We had a night off from the kids the other night and guess what 12 hours before their departure the sickness began to set in. I told her don't worry as soon as the kids get back you should start recovering. So tired of this. Anybody else here had sex more than once this year? If so, I am jealous!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What makes 18 times 6 weeks into the year normal? If I were to guess we have probably had sex about 6 times so far this year. That is an average of once a week, I think that is good.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

We're at 11 for the year so far. 2 weeks have been off limits for her period. So 2-3 times most "available" weeks.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Zilch*~ Still waiting for the divorce to reach finalization!
Think that I might have regained my virginity by default!


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

KendalMintcake said:


> It's mid February - couples in normal relationships should have had sex about 18 times by now this year. I myself am at 1. Woopidy doo!. I told my wife a few weeks ago that I was not going to live in a sexless marriage - she begged and pleaded she would do anything. A few nights later it happened. Now 6 weeks into the year looking at the big picture it's same ole same ole. We had a night off from the kids the other night and guess what 12 hours before their departure the sickness began to set in. I told her don't worry as soon as the kids get back you should start recovering. So tired of this. Anybody else here had sex more than once this year? If so, I am jealous!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well ... I am also stuck at 1 ... and that was the first night of a trip to Cancun that I took her on. My guess is that I may get that count up to 4 by the end of the year ... if I'm lucky.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

We are at 39...but I took the hubster on a business trip to Miami with me and we took advantage of the great hotel and hot tub for some extra play time. Have Viagra will travel! ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

It's probably been 12 I guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norma5 (Feb 6, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> We're at 11 for the year so far. 2 weeks have been off limits for her period. So 2-3 times most "available" weeks.


omg, why's everyone counting???


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

norma5 said:


> omg, why's everyone counting???


When you spend 10 years getting it 8-10 times a year.....and then get your sex life back in the right direction after a tremendous amount of work. That's when you start counting. You count to tell yourself that what you're experiencing is really happening. You count so that you can spot a decline and address it. You count so that when it's been a few days you can look back and reassure yourself. So ya, please don't judge me for keeping track of our turnaround.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well ... I am also stuck at 1 ... and that was the first night of a trip to Cancun that I took her on. My guess is that I may get that count up to 4 by the end of the year ... if I'm lucky.


I guess its better than the 3.5 year stretch I went where we didn't have sex at all. Then came the separation. I guess the rate we are on now is "fixing" it


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

norma5 said:


> omg, why's everyone counting???


I'm not counting but just saying that if there have been 50 days so far this year then going by our average activity then I am guess a number. 

Can tell you something though, after coming from a long term marriage that was sexless at the end you can't help but notice how much sex you are having now. I just cannot help but to say to people, you know there is a big wide world out there and if you are suffering in a sexless marriage then getting out is a real option.

It isn't the lack of sex for most, it is the lack of connection, intimacy and deep love. If both parties are happy with little to no sex then all power to them but for those that are miserable, you have one life, don't waste it.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Holland said:


> I'm not counting but just saying that if there have been 50 days so far this year then going by our average activity then I am guess a number.
> 
> Can tell you something though, after coming from a long term marriage that was sexless at the end you can't help but notice how much sex you are having now. I just cannot help but to say to people, you know there is a big wide world out there and if you are suffering in a sexless marriage then getting out is a real option.
> 
> It isn't the lack of sex for most, it is the lack of connection, intimacy and deep love. If both parties are happy with little to no sex then all power to them but for those that are miserable, you have one life, don't waste it.


I agree with your comment about a connection. For me, the emotional connection is strengthened by the physical connection. Without it we drift apart. Even as a man, I need that intimacy and connection. Not so sure how I tell my young children ... well, I'm leaving your mommy because we don't have sex, lol


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Toffer,
You let your wife tease you and then ignore you. 

There is actually something called 'typical marital sadism'.

It's real. She did this to you with the negligee gift. Your issue is that you aren't willing to respond in kind. 

If my wife did the whole evening of public foreplay followed by falling asleep and then nothing in the days after, I would provide a simple vehicle for her to understand how that felt. I won't bother to type it out though, because truly, you have a major league walking on eggshell problem with her. Which is part of the reason she lacks desire. 


QUOTE=Toffer;1462222]OP,

I'm not far behind you. Sex 4 or 5 times since New Years and and her's how my days from valentines have gone:

Thu - VD - No sex. I have been off of work since Thu but she had to work Fri AM. I let myself believe that this was the reason. 

Fri - Dinner with friends. Then out to a bar to hear a band we like with these same folks. Danced, laughed, played darts. During this entire time, she would rub my butt, kiss and ug me, sit on my lap etc. Get home and she gets into bed, rolls on her side (back to me) and proceeds to pass out and sleep. I figure "OK, she had a little too much to drink" and let it be (she did have a little too much that night). The next morning, NOTHING

Sat - Think I might be getting the cold she just had. There's a neighbor's party that she (and I) really don't want to go to. Her BFF also said she wasnt going especially if my wife wasn't. Wife tells BFF to text her if she's going. I think "Great, a night in and a chance to make it happen". After a trip to the mall, we are at home and wife stats to text BFF if she's going to the party (WTF, I thought we were staying home?) This starts around 9 PM and involves about 2 or 3 texts to the BFF. 

Bff gets back to her about 20 minutes later that she's at the party that started 2 hours earlier. Wife asks if it's OK to go to party (by this time I realized that she wanted to go regardless of how I felt physically). I decided that I wouldn't say no and let her go hang with BFF (BTW, BFF married too and husband is also at party as well as going out with us the night before). Wife is out the door in under 10 minutes! She got home around midnight

Sun - Wife was asked to go to a planning meeting for a collegue's retirement a few weeks ago. She tells me she doesn't want to go. I say fine, tell them we have plans with friends for dinner. She agrees. Meeting was to start at 6 PM last night. At 6:15, her BFF texts her asking where she is (she never told anyone she wasn't going to be there). She texts BFF that we're out to dinner with friends. BFF says to come by after. Within 20 minutes she's out the door! I went to bed at 10 and she still wasn't home. Around 9:30 she texts that they were having coffee and she's be home soon. I told her I took something to help me sleep so she could stay where she was (I know that's a bit passive/aggressive)

Think she got home around 11. Cleaned some stuff in kitchen, went to bed, rolled on side, went to sleep 

Have done the readings, had talks and even did counseling a few years ago.  Things improved but didn't last after every effort that was made. 

If I was younger, I would do as Waiwera has outlined. 

It's too late for me. I'm in way too deep to get out now without serious financial issues for the two of us and the 3 kids. I would get a room somewhere if I could afford to just to get away but where I live, just a room goes for about $400/month 

Run now if you can! Don't let this be you![/QUOTE]


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I feel so bad for you guys! I was just like your wives, never wanted sex, for years. As I read through this thread I was trying to rack my brain for something useful. Something that, had my husband said or repeated, or done, maybe we wouldn't have spent so many wasted years? For what it's worth:

You say to her: "I am afraid we are loosing our connection. I don't feel as close to you as I did (insert the amount of time it's been since your sex life took a nose dive) ago. When you and I have sex it strengthens my bond doe you. I feel intensely close to you and I love feeling like that. Dont misunderstand, I still love you and always will, but I don't like how we are drifting away from that wonderful bond we had.

" You say you just don't have interest in having sex and although I'm not supposed to take that personally, it still hurts. It hurts tremendously. I look at you and want you so bad, and then I remember that you don't want me anymore. I have to be honest, I am really afraid that this constant rejection is going to kill my love for you.

"So, I need for you to come clean with me about what's going on with you. Why don't you want to have sex with me? Why are you risking our marriage like this? How would you feel if you had a normal sex drive but I lost mine? I need you to show me that our relationship is still important to you."

Depending on her answer, men, you need to either send her to her GYN, or her PCP for therapy referral. And then you need to follow up and don't let it drop. You have to force the issue, you have to advocate for YOUR needs. 

Or, you can passively wait for your death, the death of your marriage, or if your really really lucky, your wife will wake up one day and realize her marriage is absolute crap and finally take steps to make it better. But I warn you, if you wait for your wife to make it better, like my H did, you'll get sex, but your going to have to come up with a valid excuse why YOU allowed the drift to happen.

Spent 18 years as a sexless couple, past 8 years... WOW!!!


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## Lonely&ConfusedMe (Jan 26, 2013)

KendalMintcake said:


> It's mid February - couples in normal relationships should have had sex about 18 times by now this year. I myself am at 1. Woopidy doo!. I told my wife a few weeks ago that I was not going to live in a sexless marriage - she begged and pleaded she would do anything. A few nights later it happened. Now 6 weeks into the year looking at the big picture it's same ole same ole. We had a night off from the kids the other night and guess what 12 hours before their departure the sickness began to set in. I told her don't worry as soon as the kids get back you should start recovering. So tired of this. Anybody else here had sex more than once this year? If so, I am jealous!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



2 times for me so far this year. I feel your pain, my friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

KendalMintcake said:


> I think she resents me for being pretty successful at work and providing her with luxuries such as a maid and not having to work. Yes I have discussed in depth - her answer is always that she is just not interested in sex. Have I manned up - yep - undoubtedly. *Sometimes I think she is a lesbian...*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's one possibility. I have seen this happened. Wasn't a good thing, and it was very saddening to all involved. A good person married to a closet homosexual. Not fair for the straight partner. The only cure is a divorce.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

I think we have a great relationship, but sometimes it does not reflect in frequency of sex. We have had sex 8 times this year. Two of those weeks she was on her period, and two of those weeks we were each ill. Life happens. She works for a CPA firm so her work is getting really busy right now. On top of that, we are only home together about 3 nights a week. I sometimes think sheer numbers do not tell the whole story.

However, you are certainly in a difficult situation. How is you relationship in other areas?


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> So why are you providing those things? If she cares so little about you, perhaps you are not speaking in the language she understands.
> 
> Consider making your actions consistent with your words.


Because I am a dip*****
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

norma5 said:


> omg, why's everyone counting???


Omg I am not counting! In order count you have to have numbers - I have just 'a' number so technically not counting just reporting. 

So! Here's the tally - 

Holland 50 (probably 51 by now!)
MineForever 39 (pretty good!)
Cuddlebug 18 (cheers!)
Diwali123 12 (totally acceptable)
WorkingOnMe 11 (ditto)
Romantic Guy 8 (more than once a week - not bad)
Toffer 5 (don't go any lower)
Mem11363 4 (warning will Robinson!)
Lonely&ConfusedMe 2 (part of the club but honorable member)
JustSomeGuyWho 1 (let's have a drink)
(Yours truly) 1 (I am about to pour a big drink)
Arbitrator 0 (oh f##k! Sorry friend - I think I remember how to do it if you need assistance technically)

Quite a range - if I could cut my nuts off I would...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

KendalMintcake said:


> Omg I am not counting! In order count you have to have numbers - I have just 'a' number so technically not counting just reporting.
> 
> So! Here's the tally -
> 
> ...


Interesting tally. And no not added another one yet but it is only the afternoon here.

I am in IC due to the fall out of my sexless marriage. I was the one that ended it (as many here would already know) and while I don't talk about this IRL it is quite cathartic to talk anon online.
The thing with me is that being female it is even more taboo to talk about IRL so IC has helped me a lot, also the fact my partner is a very supportive and patient man. We are both HD and discussed this well before we got serious, he had come from a past with similar but different issues.

Far out I know so much more now than all those years ago, didn't even know there were people with differing drives, i just thought sex was a normal part of life and that if anything men would want it more than women. 

I really wish everyone the best with the nightmare that an incompatible marriage brings. Do all you can to work it out and save it if possible. If not then go and find your happiness.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Only around a dozen times, sex has really been cut down


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Only around a dozen times, sex has really been cut down


Yeah but dude you guys have some issues going on.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yeah and it looks like it's going to be 0 for the rest of the month at this rate lol


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

KendalMintcake said:


> Omg I am not counting! In order count you have to have numbers - I have just 'a' number so technically not counting just reporting.
> 
> So! Here's the tally -
> 
> ...


lol ... well, it would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad. KendalMintcake, I'll take you up on that drink


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## eyesee (Feb 19, 2013)

5 or 6 times

It's probably 5 and I'm 27.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

I think I'm 8. :not sure:


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

KendalMintcake said:


> Because I am a dip*****
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So what are you going to do to fix that?


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

Well, it pains me to say it, but I'd take your 1 this year. I'm at Zero, zip nada, zilch this year. I keep thinking things are going to turn around soon, and it seems like she is not on my timeframe. Hopefully her meeting with our MC tomorrow helps her some and she will start to come around.


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

14

Honestly, I was in your boat a few years ago. Sex was sparse and unsatisfying, but a huge amount of that blame was mine to own. 

For those of you wanting to change yourself or your marriage- it begins inside of you


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

50-70


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

I think somewhere between 18 - 25. Can't remember how many two-a-days there have been. But I really could have had at least 10 times more! I don't know why my SD has been off the chart lately. I wake up in the middle of the night wanting it, in the morning wanting it and sitting at work thinking about him and wanting it. I haven't told my husband because he has been working such long hours and had a long bout with a nasty cold and cough and couldn't sleep well.

I think something is going on with my hormones because my periods are also lighter and shorter (and I'm only 28).


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## RFguy (Feb 17, 2013)

norma5 said:


> omg, why's everyone counting???


Why count:

I once mentioned to my LD gf that that I would like to have sex 3 times a week (ideally more, but I would settle for that). 

She responded that we already do it 3 times a week and I went 

So I started counting, mainly to prove to myself that I am not crazy.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

6

During the summer we were clicking along 3X/week. We've come full circle and last year looks like a bell curve...and a graph of a relationship's last dying gasps.

Yes it starts inside of us but that also takes two. Two years of introspection/journaling/self improvement and by now I'm turned inside out. She just hates that "everybody wants something from her".

She skuttled my V-Day plans for a candle lit dinner in a hotel room of her favorite meal that I would prepare during the afternoon. There was very important "mothering" that our kids needed on that particular day that could not wait. She got the most generic card known to man and no gift.

It is what it is...probably nobody's fault, just a missed connection and not a great match. If I knew in 1979 what I know now.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

Not sure how I would do with single digits, heck under 20 seems low. I tend to be very HD any more than 2 days and I am not a pleasant person thank god my wife has never said no except if she is sick then I wouldn't ask anyhow. No matter how old your are or how long you have been married sex is a bonding thing, it brings you closer and keeps passion in the marriage. You may as well have a roomate and start dating(not while you are married) you would probably get it more.
I don't keep track but we have had a few weekends where it has been 6 or 7 times alone, one of the benefits of an R is the sex increases even more(no complaints about the increase but about the why).
How you fix it to increase your numbers I don't know, a friend's wife has made the statement she would be fine not having sex again(both in their 40's) lucky for him his drive isn't that high or maybe he is just used to it so he says. I guess you either live with it and suffer or you go your own way and look for better.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

RFguy said:


> Why count:
> 
> I once mentioned to my LD gf that that I would like to have sex 3 times a week (ideally more, but I would settle for that).
> 
> ...


That's one thing I don't understand is they are so against having sex that they'll sacrifice your sanity for their own. I was told that she was, more than anything else, concerned about my mental health and my reply was then why are you taking away the one thing that is guarantees to drive a person insane? Answer - it goes both ways. Last I recall she didn't have to work, clean or make dinner - we went on multiple vacations in the last year? I put great effort into doing romantic things like getting baby sitters, flowers you name it. So yes I definitely feel insane!

Latest tally - 

SamYaeger 60
Holland 50
MineForever 39
Committed4Ever 21
============== average line
Cuddlebug 18
41362 14
Diwali123 12
WorkingOnMe 11
Romantic Guy 8
TheStranger 8 maybe
Cre8ify 6
Eyesee 6 maybe
============ acceptable line
Toffer 5
Mem11363 4
============ as David Byrne sung 'well, how did I get here!' Sorry suckers...drinks on me!
Lonely&ConfusedMe 2
JustSomeGuyWho 1
(Yours truly) 1
Arbitrator 0
TryingAndFrustrated 0

One more quote - 'life's a piece of s#!t, when you look at it, always look on the bright side of life, da doo, da doo da doo di doo!'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> lol ... well, it would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad. KendalMintcake, I'll take you up on that drink


I shall take you up on it. We are probably on different ends of the planet so perhaps we can do a virtual toast to our pathetic existences - or plan a time and then do a shot each at that time!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Um, you can change mine to 12.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

My guess is that I am around 4 for the year. Mostly due to me. The wife and I have been having issues and I am just not in the mood. Probably need to visit the doc for a T check too...

As for your issue, stop making her life so easy. She has you by the balls and eating out of her hand. Not to be an a$$, but it sounds like she has plenty of time to do whatever she wants, including getting serviced by someone else. Many folks here will recommend "No More Mr. Nice Guy" as a way to change things, may be worth reading.

If you should consider divorce because of this, make sure you go into it with you eyes wide open. Due to the disparity in income and the lifestyle you have given her, I suspect you would have a nasty court battle, especially over money and children. Make sure you have your ducks in a row before you talk with her about a divorce or you will get raped by the court. Talk with a lawyer and search the web for advice on a sound exit strategy.


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## Lostinbonkers (Feb 18, 2013)

Hi, I feel your pain. It is going on 8 months for me and my husband. Sex is a normal part of life and I am going to give you some frank advice from a woman's perspective. Woman are not visual, we need to have a deep emotional connection for sex, especially if our background posesses any from of sexual abuse. My husband has long since tried to connect with me on any emotional level. Sex with him is something I only do out of desperation for sex. I would rather have sex with a complete stranger,( whic I have) then someone who is supposed to be my husband and doesn't give me the necessary emotional support that I crave. I don't know what your relationship is with your wife, but I know that when he complains to me about sex, it only further pushes me away. It hurts to know that the one you live, simply doesn't love you enough to understand your emotional needs. When I feel connected, I flourish.. Can stay in bed all weekend, but for the past 6 years thus has not been the case. He changed, got very controlling, verbally abusive, and as of late he has stopped caring about hygiene, and doesn't hear anything I say. He cares only about hs own feelings and desires and does not give my emotions the time of day. He no longer helps financially, he s mean to our daughter, and barely lifts a finger to keep the house clean. I work 60 hours a week to just keep us alive.. Not that I am comparing our situations at all, I am just showing you both sides of the coins and how a sexless marriage can be destructive to the entire family. And we are now at the point where sex probably won't even save us. Maybe you can try finding out what is missing emotionally from your wife, and try romancing her. Make her a special dinner, try massaging her back or her feet , watch a cheesy chick flick , have a glass of wine. Don't ask for sex, romance her into having it. Let her think it's her idea. Thats all i ever wanted from my husband. To feel important and apprechiated. I wish you all the best.


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## imhopeless (Dec 18, 2012)

21 But we just got married on January 29th and were [mostly] abstaining before then


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I've stopped counting.

It really isn't the number of times we have sex, it's whether or not I feel my sexual needs are being met by my wife. If I don't have the need, because I threw my back out shoveling or caught a cold, then why should I care whether or not we had sex (assuming my wife was also not interested). But if I'm healthy, I can tell when my needs aren't being met.

Another question I pose to all with low numbers... are you initiating? You can complain all you want about lack of sex but if you aren't initiating, all you will hear when it comes to a head is "well, you never asked for sex."

Initiate, initiate, initiate. Make your spouse say no. You can't complain unless there's concrete examples of you asking and being turned down. It's then that you can have the discussion with your spouse about a lack of sexual intimacy.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I thought mine was above average considering there a week of period in there. 
Mine was 12 but I probably got turned down three times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

Twice. Both times on trips when were staying in hotels and it was impossible for me to avoid her.

My wife's affair wreaked havoc on my sex drive.


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> I've stopped counting.
> 
> It really isn't the number of times we have sex, it's whether or not I feel my sexual needs are being met by my wife. If I don't have the need, because I threw my back out shoveling or caught a cold, then why should I care whether or not we had sex (assuming my wife was also not interested). But if I'm healthy, I can tell when my needs aren't being met.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. I don't count when my needs are being met either. I really don't find the need if I think we are both satisfied. The counting starts for me when I don't think we are having a fulfilling sex life, both quantity and quality. I honestly have not initiated in a long time since she had asked me not to. I know it would just piss her off. Heck, if she can't even talk about it, I know she won't do it. She asked for sex to be off the table when we started counseling and she would be the one to initiate when she was ready. I haven't tried to initiate since then. I have tried to bring it up, and that never has gone well. I just keep hoping that one of the future (nearer the better) counseling sessions will finally click that lightbulb in her head.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

KendalMintcake said:


> *Arbitrator 0 (oh f##k! Sorry friend - I think I remember how to do it if you need assistance technically)*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, what I'm lacking in sexual relations while waiting on the courthouse gavel to fall, my STBXW seems to be fastly making up for it with the new love of her life, Mr. Lardass.

But when once presented again with those magical carnal prospects, somehow, I think I'll be able to fumble around in the dark long enough, trying to remember how to do it, and maybe even smiling a little bit in the process. 

Now that just might be a hoot, in and of itself!


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

You guys made me curious so I looked. We're at 16 which isn't bad considering we both got the flu and he was gone for 2 weeks in Jan.

I'm happy.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

Lostinbonkers said:


> Hi, I feel your pain. It is going on 8 months for me and my husband. Sex is a normal part of life and I am going to give you some frank advice from a woman's perspective. Woman are not visual, we need to have a deep emotional connection for sex, especially if our background posesses any from of sexual abuse. My husband has long since tried to connect with me on any emotional level. Sex with him is something I only do out of desperation for sex. I would rather have sex with a complete stranger,( whic I have) then someone who is supposed to be my husband and doesn't give me the necessary emotional support that I crave. I don't know what your relationship is with your wife, but I know that when he complains to me about sex, it only further pushes me away. It hurts to know that the one you live, simply doesn't love you enough to understand your emotional needs. When I feel connected, I flourish.. Can stay in bed all weekend, but for the past 6 years thus has not been the case. He changed, got very controlling, verbally abusive, and as of late he has stopped caring about hygiene, and doesn't hear anything I say. He cares only about hs own feelings and desires and does not give my emotions the time of day. He no longer helps financially, he s mean to our daughter, and barely lifts a finger to keep the house clean. I work 60 hours a week to just keep us alive.. Not that I am comparing our situations at all, I am just showing you both sides of the coins and how a sexless marriage can be destructive to the entire family. And we are now at the point where sex probably won't even save us. Maybe you can try finding out what is missing emotionally from your wife, and try romancing her. Make her a special dinner, try massaging her back or her feet , watch a cheesy chick flick , have a glass of wine. Don't ask for sex, romance her into having it. Let her think it's her idea. Thats all i ever wanted from my husband. To feel important and apprechiated. I wish you all the best.


Your advice and perspective is really appreciated but not to discount it - I have done all those things. You may note that she has luxuries beyond 99% of the world. I am very caring, thoughtful - always have been - not to toot my own horn but I know that I am the antithesis of someone who is abusive and lazy. To illustrate the point, for a couple of months one of my kids called me 'mommy' for a few months - they hug me first - miss me first and I spend a lot if time with them. In order to connect emotionally both parties need to be open and frankly, I likewise feel appreciated for utilitarian purposes, although not physical utilitarian purposes but rather operational utilitarian purposes. By that I mean, my own perception of my value to our relationship is one of an operational engine - THAT I am willing to bet is quite in par with the equivalent female complaint of feeling nothing more than flesh. So you see, both males and females can be stripped of their soul just slightly different manifestations. Females are stripped down to meaningless flesh for fantasy and makes stripped down to brooms and tools. I feel as such is misery. But to answer you question - yes I try to connect but the door is closed and I am pushed away at any sign of getting closer. I doubt I would be able to connect with the skeletons under the covers until she does so with herself first. Perhaps that skeleton is a lesbian skeleton....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> I've stopped counting.
> 
> It really isn't the number of times we have sex, it's whether or not I feel my sexual needs are being met by my wife. If I don't have the need, because I threw my back out shoveling or caught a cold, then why should I care whether or not we had sex (assuming my wife was also not interested). But if I'm healthy, I can tell when my needs aren't being met.
> 
> ...


I initiate every time. I get a 1 in 10 hit rate. Therefore, in concert with the statistical nature of this thread I would have to initiate every 4.8 hours (4:48 hours) to achieve a once ever other day rate. That is no longer initiating but nagging!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Um, you can change mine to 12.


Tell us workingonme what's it like ? Love...'brick tamlin - anchorman!'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

KendalMintcake said:


> It's mid February - couples in normal relationships should have had sex about 18 times by now this year. I myself am at 1. Woopidy doo!. I told my wife a few weeks ago that I was not going to live in a sexless marriage - she begged and pleaded she would do anything. A few nights later it happened. Now 6 weeks into the year looking at the big picture it's same ole same ole. We had a night off from the kids the other night and guess what 12 hours before their departure the sickness began to set in. I told her don't worry as soon as the kids get back you should start recovering. So tired of this. Anybody else here had sex more than once this year? If so, I am jealous!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To be honest, I can't remember if we have had sex this year so far, or not. 

Wife's arthritis and rheumatism are getting worse. Realistically, I think she'll be in a wheelchair within ten years. But what can you do, save be there for the one you love?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

0. It's almost March, and I'm single.
Clearly, therapy worked. S*cks.
I'm now genuinely interested in things like my studies and research and pleasant conversation vs. it being a diversion from sexual pursuits. Pathetic. I feel like I did pre-puberty. Hopefully I will get another adolescence out of this deal.


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## brightlight (Feb 18, 2013)

gbrad said:


> *What makes 18 times 6 weeks into the year normal?* If I were to guess we have probably had sex about 6 times so far this year. That is an average of once a week, I think that is good.


This.

I cannot believe everyone is counting. 

If you measure your performance by statistics and you fall below average in anything, then how are you going to feel?

Regardless of what the numbers say human relationships are unique. What works for others may not work for you.

If you are not getting the amount of sex you want then sure, try to do something about it. But don't start feeling down because you fall on the "wrong" side of a graph.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

brightlight said:


> This.
> 
> I cannot believe everyone is counting.
> 
> ...


Oh ok I'll just stop feeling like a POS and stop feeling unwanted. Presto - there, I just stopped feeling that way. Oh and didn't think of that approach to actually do something something! What a revelation - tonight I will just have sex then. Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

KendalMintcake said:


> Oh ok I'll just stop feeling like a POS and stop feeling unwanted. Presto - there, I just stopped feeling that way. Oh and didn't think of that approach to actually do something something! What a revelation - tonight I will just have sex then. Thanks!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't buy into it KM, there are those that will understand and those that won't.

Those of us that have been there or are there now fully understand the pain you are suffering. It is a nightmare, a black hole and it is all consuming.

Just to make it clear to those that don't understand, this is not about sex and the numbers. This is about the massive blow to a persons self esteem, resentment and all things negative. When the person that supposedly loves you does not want to be intimate with you then it is crushing. You start to think you are not worthy an ugly, lowlife person. The guilt creeps in "am i wrong for equating sex with love?" "what is wrong with me?"

People that are either LD or have not been there do not understand. It is not about sex, it is about connection, love and sharing with the person that you love and that you thought loved you.

OK all or none of this will apply to some people but the general theme that it is more than just about sex will ring true with nearly every case.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

KendalMintcake said:


> Oh ok I'll just stop feeling like a POS and stop feeling unwanted. Presto - there, I just stopped feeling that way. Oh and didn't think of that approach to actually do something something! What a revelation - tonight I will just have sex then. Thanks!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No sex and... now I am craving some Kendal Mint Cake! Thanks!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I prefer a York Peppermint Patty.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

mineforever said:


> We are at 39...but I took the hubster on a business trip to Miami with me and we took advantage of the great hotel and hot tub for some extra play time. Have Viagra will travel! ;-)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You really keep track up to that many times and can count it. I guessed 6 or 7 and that is just a close guess. 39, that is more like a year.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

Holland said:


> Don't buy into it KM, there are those that will understand and those that won't.
> 
> Those of us that have been there or are there now fully understand the pain you are suffering. It is a nightmare, a black hole and it is all consuming.
> 
> ...


know that feeling - I describe it as feeling 'repulsive'. I have told her that it makes me feel that way. There are many many times when I don't even want sex but just a scratch on the back and often I get a huff and 'are you serious'. If she asks me for a foot rub, I do it without question. The worst part is noticing that tv shows are way more important, and trashy ones at that. Honestly, you just feel like a broom for dealing with the logistics of family living - there are many of us silently suffering. I wonder how long I can play the charade as at this point it's all for the kids...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> No sex and... now I am craving some Kendal Mint Cake! Thanks!


Personally I kind of hate them, but they are all full of sugary goodness! Screen name comes from the young ones 'mr Kendal Mintcake' of the 'university challenge' episode 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

KendalMintcake said:


> Personally I kind of hate them, but they are all full of sugary goodness! Screen name comes from the young ones 'mr Kendal Mintcake' of the 'university challenge' episode
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh! I'd forgotten about that! 
My wife is very sympathetic to my situation, but is usually physically incapable of making love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

KendalMintcake said:


> know that feeling - I describe it as feeling 'repulsive'. I have told her that it makes me feel that way. There are many many times when I don't even want sex but just a scratch on the back and often I get a huff and 'are you serious'. If she asks me for a foot rub, I do it without question. The worst part is noticing that tv shows are way more important, and trashy ones at that. Honestly, you just feel like a broom for dealing with the logistics of family living - there are many of us silently suffering. I wonder how long I can play the charade as at this point it's all for the kids...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know the feeling. I've told my wife the exact same thing. I would even settle for a back rub or anything right now, and she just comes back with 'all you want from me is sex'. You don't love me for me, but just for my body. I will unfortunately still give her a backscratch or footrub or whatever she asks for if she does. If I say no, she will then get even more upset and withdraw even further and use that against me (I'm not sure how much further she could withdraw though). It is an ugly circle that we are in when what we want they don't want to give, and then they feel like that is ALL we want, when in fact they were the ones that put sex up on this pedistal and then think that is all we want because we are not getting it.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

I don't have a definite number, I know about the average times per week and of course those couple of weekends where we were like bunnies. Those people that do have an exact number (lower side) keep track because they are not satisfied and it bothers them. Those who have high numbers and you seem to know the exact figure I don't know why you bother other than bragging rights but heck everyone likes to now and again. Once or a hundred times if you are satisfied with your sex life then it doesn't matter what the number is.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Kendal,
I have slightly dry skin. Makes for an itchy back. 

I understand and empathize with your misery. What I don't understand is why you encourage your wife to treat you this way by:
- accepting her unkind reaction to back scratch requests and
- rubbing her feet without hesitation when asked

Your family is very lucky for being in the top one percent economically. Do you take good care of yourself physically?

FYI: as of 2/15 I estimate 12 times since New Years. 



KendalMintcake said:


> know that feeling - I describe it as feeling 'repulsive'. I have told her that it makes me feel that way. There are many many times when I don't even want sex but just a scratch on the back and often I get a huff and 'are you serious'. If she asks me for a foot rub, I do it without question. The worst part is noticing that tv shows are way more important, and trashy ones at that. Honestly, you just feel like a broom for dealing with the logistics of family living - there are many of us silently suffering. I wonder how long I can play the charade as at this point it's all for the kids...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

gbrad said:


> You really keep track up to that many times and can count it. I guessed 6 or 7 andilithat is just a close guess. 39, that is more like a year.


I know the count because we both know how easy it is to get comfortable and let things slide. I am the initiater, whether thats sexting him to get him thinking about it or just getting frisky with him. I know he needs sex about every other day to really stay satisfied so it is really easy to track. Me I am an every day kind of gal, but his drive isn't as high so I try to pace myself. Marriage after 30 yrs looks a little different than when you in your 20's and 30's....we wasted a lot of good time getting caught up in life and letting it get in the way of our relationship. We are both dedicated to not letting that happen again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

I'm at 3, been married 9 months. Gotta love the honeymoon phase! Go me!


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## coupdegrace (Oct 15, 2012)

I'm at 2, at least for PiV. It hurts my wife every time we have sex, so I'm not really into it. I can barely orgasm knowing she's hurting, but she insists. Normally, we 69 and I finish on a towel via BJ or HJ. On the BJ count, I'm about at 3x a week, which could be around 24.

Been married for almost 3 years.


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## JoeHenderson (Oct 3, 2011)

We are at 0. We've been married 3 years, together 8.

The first part of the year was W rejecting my advances. Sometime in mid January, we had the sex talk. I said that sex is an emotional outlet for me, that I want us to work together on this, and it would be wise for her to see a dr. W said having sex while breastfeeding would make her feel resentful cuz she's touched out from breastfeeding (she BFs once a day now...) and that she'll consider seeing a dr. or going to marital counseling after she's done BFing and it continues to be a problem. 


Since that conversation I have put myself on a sex moratorium. I haven't asked or made advances. I've just started to do more things that I enjoy without worrying about W's reaction. I've also lost a few pounds and it's getting noticed around the office


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Just for kicks: 28 years married, together 35 years. Ages 58 and 55.

20 times so far this year. Not much different than 30 years ago in frequency, but a LOT more orgasms for her now.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

jaharthur said:


> Just for kicks: 28 years married, together 35 years. Ages 58 and 55.
> 
> 20 times so far this year. Not much different than 30 years ago in frequency, but a LOT more orgasms for her now.


Anybody on the low end should understand what I am about to say in response to the above - 

Responses line this remind me that I am not crazy to want it more and, that it is in fact totally acceptable to want it once, twice even three times a week. I am forced to feel as though any request for intimacy is an outlandish request / desire - so much so that I feel like a sex maniac or a drooling dog. Doesn't help that my wife is in immaculate shape. That makes me feel even more disgusting wanting get close to her body. I spend my days trying to suppress the desire. Meanwhile she spends time gussying up in close proximity. It is torture. It is torture hoping tonight maybe she'll, out of the blue, wear the nylons I bought her 9 months ago. Really pathetic...how did I get here...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JoeHenderson (Oct 3, 2011)

KendalMintcake said:


> Anybody on the low end should understand what I am about to say in response to the above -
> 
> Responses line this remind me that I am not crazy to want it more and, that it is in fact totally acceptable to want it once, twice even three times a week. I am forced to feel as though any request for intimacy is an outlandish request / desire - so much so that I feel like a sex maniac or a drooling dog. Doesn't help that my wife is in immaculate shape. That makes me feel even more disgusting wanting get close to her body. I spend my days trying to suppress the desire. Meanwhile she spends time gussying up in close proximity. It is torture. It is torture hoping tonight maybe she'll, out of the blue, wear the nylons I bought her 9 months ago. Really pathetic...how did I get here...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I understand where you're coming from. My W wants me to spoon her, but I've been doing it less and less because the physical proximity makes me feel so sad.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

love=pain said:


> I don't have a definite number, I know about the average times per week and of course those couple of weekends where we were like bunnies. Those people that do have an exact number (lower side) keep track because they are not satisfied and it bothers them. *Those who have high numbers and you seem to know the exact figure I don't know why you bother other than bragging rights but heck everyone likes to now and again. Once or a hundred times if you are satisfied with your sex life then it doesn't matter what the number is*.


Really, bragging? Um no way. I have a high number *now* but have in a past life had lower than any of the posters here, is that bragging in reverse.

All I hope to gain from posting my number here is to give the whole situation some perspective. I was a HD woman that was totally deprived, sad, lonely and beaten down by this. Just want to show that there *is *life after a sexless marriage. Some may fix their marriage but the most likely is that most will either live in this hole for many more years or divorce. For those that decide to divorce then they need to know there is a big world out there and to next time find a compatible person.

There are people here suffering because they are not just dissatisfied with their sex life, they are in emotional pain because of it.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Why are people getting all in a tizzie re: why are you counting? Who's counting? It's pretty easy to give a rough estimate: 6 weeks, I know for a fact it's AT LEAST 3 times a week, and a few days there is early morning sex, and then again that night. So 3 x 6 = 18, and throw in a few 2-a-days, takes 10 seconds or less to get to that estimate. Nobody said it was an exact count but given it's only 6 weeks we're talking about here, it's easy to get close to the amount!


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## mdill (Jan 18, 2012)

Holland said:


> I'm not counting but just saying that if there have been 50 days so far this year then going by our average activity then I am guess a number.
> 
> Can tell you something though, after coming from a long term marriage that was sexless at the end you can't help but notice how much sex you are having now. I just cannot help but to say to people, you know there is a big wide world out there and if you are suffering in a sexless marriage then getting out is a real option.
> 
> It isn't the lack of sex for most, it is the lack of connection, intimacy and deep love. If both parties are happy with little to no sex then all power to them but for those that are miserable, you have one life, don't waste it.


Holland, I totally agree tha lack of sex is the symptom. It is the lack of closeness, connection, intimacy that feeds a deep love that sex brings that is critically important to a building and maintain a relationship and marriage that is so important. But perhaps this is just how I see it.


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## mdill (Jan 18, 2012)

KendalMintcake said:


> Omg I am not counting! In order count you have to have numbers - I have just 'a' number so technically not counting just reporting.
> 
> So! Here's the tally -
> 
> ...


You can add us to the tally if you like. We are at 3, but it is not at all representative of our normal. My DW is recoverying from 2 surgeries, which make sex impossible until she recovers. Our 3 came between surgeries because we wanted each other so bad we couldn't stand it . I love it that even when she is clearly hurting she still wants me. For me, I'm good with the knowledge that my DW wants me even though she can't go there physically. She is now recovering well from her surgery and I expect we will get back to normal in another week or two.


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## mdill (Jan 18, 2012)

Lostinbonkers said:


> Hi, I feel your pain. It is going on 8 months for me and my husband. Sex is a normal part of life and I am going to give you some frank advice from a woman's perspective. Woman are not visual, we need to have a deep emotional connection for sex, especially if our background posesses any from of sexual abuse. My husband has long since tried to connect with me on any emotional level. Sex with him is something I only do out of desperation for sex. I would rather have sex with a complete stranger,( whic I have) then someone who is supposed to be my husband and doesn't give me the necessary emotional support that I crave. I don't know what your relationship is with your wife, but I know that when he complains to me about sex, it only further pushes me away. It hurts to know that the one you live, simply doesn't love you enough to understand your emotional needs. When I feel connected, I flourish.. Can stay in bed all weekend, but for the past 6 years thus has not been the case. He changed, got very controlling, verbally abusive, and as of late he has stopped caring about hygiene, and doesn't hear anything I say. He cares only about hs own feelings and desires and does not give my emotions the time of day. He no longer helps financially, he s mean to our daughter, and barely lifts a finger to keep the house clean. I work 60 hours a week to just keep us alive.. Not that I am comparing our situations at all, I am just showing you both sides of the coins and how a sexless marriage can be destructive to the entire family. And we are now at the point where sex probably won't even save us. Maybe you can try finding out what is missing emotionally from your wife, and try romancing her. Make her a special dinner, try massaging her back or her feet , watch a cheesy chick flick , have a glass of wine. Don't ask for sex, romance her into having it. Let her think it's her idea. Thats all i ever wanted from my husband. To feel important and apprechiated. I wish you all the best.


I understand your perspective. Have you share this with your DH. Some have pointed out that men need sex to feel loved and connected and women need to feel connected and love to have sex. This is true in my experience. Not loving your husband send the message that you don't love him. Most men will not understand this or why unless you tell him directly. You need to talk to your man about this. Talk to him about what you need and show him you love him by passionately loving him, even if this is not your inclination. Someone has to take the first step. He should respond. If not, seek counseling.


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## mdill (Jan 18, 2012)

Holland said:


> Don't buy into it KM, there are those that will understand and those that won't.
> 
> Those of us that have been there or are there now fully understand the pain you are suffering. It is a nightmare, a black hole and it is all consuming.
> 
> ...


Holland, for what it is worth I totally agree. Men, make you wife feel loved and explain that you need sex with her to feel her love. Women, love you husband if you want his love. Sex is just the vehicle to the desire emotional connection both need. If either opts out, the relationship is over.


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## brightlight (Feb 18, 2013)

KendalMintcake said:


> Oh ok I'll just stop feeling like a POS and stop feeling unwanted. Presto - there, I just stopped feeling that way. Oh and didn't think of that approach to actually do something something! What a revelation - tonight I will just have sex then. Thanks!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Trust me, I understand. 

As I said, if you are not satisfied with your sex life then you should of course act. And of course, I am not suggesting it will be easy.

My point is counting the number of times you have sex and measuring it against an "average" isn't necessarily going to make you feel any better.


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## mdill (Jan 18, 2012)

Holland said:


> Really, bragging? Um no way. I have a high number *now* but have in a past life had lower than any of the posters here, is that bragging in reverse.
> 
> All I hope to gain from posting my number here is to give the whole situation some perspective. I was a HD woman that was totally deprived, sad, lonely and beaten down by this. Just want to show that there *is *life after a sexless marriage. Some may fix their marriage but the most likely is that most will either live in this hole for many more years or divorce. For those that decide to divorce then they need to know there is a big world out there and to next time find a compatible person.
> 
> There are people here suffering because they are not just dissatisfied with their sex life, they are in emotional pain because of it.


Holland, my experience was similar from the male side. Sadly, many other considerations enter into the decision about leaving in search of a more compatible partner. It can be a very tough call. HD women are rare, based on my experience, those on TAM and what my friends share. So I think it much harder for HD man to find a compatible HD woman. It appears, women are really in much more control of their relationships than men.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

mdill said:


> You can add us to the tally if you like. We are at 3, but it is not at all representative of our normal. My DW is recoverying from 2 surgeries, which make sex impossible until she recovers. *Our 3 came between surgeries because we wanted each other so bad we couldn't stand it .* *I love it that even when she is clearly hurting she still wants me. For me, I'm good with the knowledge that my DW wants me even though she can't go there physically. *She is now recovering well from her surgery and I expect we will get back to normal in another week or two.


This gives me goosebumbs, this is what it is all about. It is not about sex for sex sake which is what many LD people do not understand. It is being wanted and desired that is what brings 2 people so close. 

The opposite is that not being desired or wanted by your partner is crushing.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Toffer said:


> OP,
> 
> I'm not far behind you. Sex 4 or 5 times since New Years and and her's how my days from valentines have gone:
> 
> ...


For the record make my tally 6 times since ringing in the New Year.

Toffer we are living parallel lives. Since I have come to this forum and have implemented the 180 things are better but at times it just feels like it is the 1 step forward 2 backward scenario.

I really long to be close to my wife. It almost seems to me like sex is a release of tension for her at this point in life. For me it is the only time I feel like we are truly close.

On V - Day I got her a dozen roses and delivered them personally to her work. Female co workers swooned. She was not in but I left them on your desk with a poem. It went like this "Roses are Red, Violets are Blue, Hey are we ever going to have sex again"? 

I got a flirty thank you text and a thumbs up on the poem. We enjoy a great dinner and a great evening. She has four days off (much needed). I am working three of the four. The following morning she lets me know she is not feeling well. This is not a surprise but a regular occurrence when she has a bit of extra time off or when she knows I am going to be around. I feel like she is sending a message. 

The next night I get home and the kids are gone for the evening. She says to me "After dinner I just want to get naked for with you and get in bed":smthumbup: After dinner something does not agree with her and she falls asleep. 

The next two days I do not even try and neither does she. I just give up sometimes. I do not think she is really attracted to me.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Lostinbonkers said:


> *Woman are not visual, we need to have a deep emotional connection for sex My husband has long since tried to connect with me on any emotional level.*.


LIB you are so spot on here. The problem is my wife gets her emotional connection with her colleagues (female). Since Monday she has spend about 8 hours with one of her colleagues outside of work. We went to dinner tonight to support a school function for kids of friends. The routine is I get home from work and she is winding down watching inane television shows (now she is watching reruns of the stupid shows she records). It seems to be to much just to turn it off and talk to me about what life has dealt us that day. 

We have an old dog we have been debating putting down. She told me at dinner tonight that I am not to do it without letting her know (duh of course I wouldn't). She then tells me (for about the 4th time) that I am not to get another dog (we have another one) unless we discuss it (she has actually gone as far as telling me if I show up with a dog that I should be prepared to live somewhere else). I of course would never do that but I let her know that I am getting another dog when the timing is right. Why she asks. I love dogs and she knows it. The fact is that a couple of summers ago when the kids were both out of the house I would have lost it without my canine friends. It felt like they were the only ones I could lean on. 

I am a bit put off by her. I find her cold and I really do not thinks she respects me. She says yes but her actions say no. 

It just feels empty most days.

Sorry for the thread hijack. Just bummed. If I knew the roller coaster ride was going to be this erratic I would have never bought the ticket.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Holland said:


> This gives me goosebumbs, this is what it is all about. It is not about sex for sex sake which is what *many LD people do not understand*. It is being wanted and desired that is what brings 2 people so close.
> 
> The opposite is that not being desired or wanted by your partner is crushing.


:iagree::smthumbup:

Mrs. Holland, I agree with this!


and,

I am happy you said "many LD people" not "ALL LD people". I am an LD person but I don't believe in rejecting.. Raincheck, ok. Rejecting. No way. 

I was guilty of neglecting in the past. Now I understand that sex is not just about getting naked, intercourse and orgasm. It's about feeling good in fulfilling my duties as a husband and making my wife happy. Marriage is to create happiness. What kind of happiness there is if I reject my wife's need for sex, just because I don't think it is important to me? That means I am selfish. Nothing to do with being LD, it means selfish. Selfishness has no place in the marriage.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

RClawson said:


> For the record make my tally 6 times since ringing in the New Year.
> 
> Toffer we are living parallel lives. Since I have come to this forum and have implemented the 180 things are better but at times it just feels like it is the 1 step forward 2 backward scenario.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry to hear this  

This kind of thing should never have happened to any decent human beings who love their spouses.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

Your wife and my wife must be twins. Our frequencies are the same and so are the relationship dynamics. 

My wife gets all of her emotional support from her mother (ugh) and our 3 year old. It's not for lack of effort on my part. I'm a good husband to her as I'm sure you are as well.

She says all the right things to my face - I'm attracted to you, I respect you, etc. However she is like your wife in that she can just go cold for days at a time and use me for nothing except my paycheck and to do chores around the house, neither of which do I ever feel like she appreciates. Like yours I'll get that glimmer of occasional horniness and desire and we do have good sex on occasion but our connection is more like a faint flame that is easily blown out. I think she is with me because I provide a convenient and easy life which allows her to do what she really wants to do which is be near her parents, work part time, have a nice home in a nice area and not worry about paying bills. 



RClawson said:


> LIB you are so spot on here. The problem is my wife gets her emotional connection with her colleagues (female). Since Monday she has spend about 8 hours with one of her colleagues outside of work. We went to dinner tonight to support a school function for kids of friends. The routine is I get home from work and she is winding down watching inane television shows (now she is watching reruns of the stupid shows she records). It seems to be to much just to turn it off and talk to me about what life has dealt us that day.
> 
> We have an old dog we have been debating putting down. She told me at dinner tonight that I am not to do it without letting her know (duh of course I wouldn't). She then tells me (for about the 4th time) that I am not to get another dog (we have another one) unless we discuss it (she has actually gone as far as telling me if I show up with a dog that I should be prepared to live somewhere else). I of course would never do that but I let her know that I am getting another dog when the timing is right. Why she asks. I love dogs and she knows it. The fact is that a couple of summers ago when the kids were both out of the house I would have lost it without my canine friends. It felt like they were the only ones I could lean on.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jeradsjunk (Sep 15, 2012)

About 30 times this year. Used to be once a week if I was lucky. Married 13 years, together 18, 2 kids. Wife used to have trouble orgasiming. Magic wand has been the best purchase I have ever made .


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

RClawson said:


> For the record make my tally 6 times since ringing in the New Year.
> 
> Toffer we are living parallel lives. Since I have come to this forum and have implemented the 180 things are better but at times it just feels like it is the 1 step forward 2 backward scenario.
> 
> ...


I could have written this. I am always in dread of the 12 hours before we have a night off because that's usually the timeframe in which sickness starts to set in. I feel like it me making her feel sick and that is probably one of the worst feelings - to think you are so repulsive that she'll either feign illness or actually get ill at the thought of being alone with me. Despite the fact that I barely ever even suggest it anymore. Last I looked in the mirror I am not bad, last I recall I have been caring, last I recall I have pulled beyond my weight! Sooner it later you just don't care anymore and then become the reason nothing is happening...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

KendalMintcake said:


> I could have written this. I am always in dread of the 12 hours before we have a night off because that's usually the timeframe in which sickness starts to set in. I feel like it me making her feel sick and *that is probably one of the worst feelings - to think you are so repulsive that she'll either feign illness or actually get ill at the thought of being alone with me*. Despite the fact that I barely ever even suggest it anymore. Last I looked in the mirror I am not bad, last I recall I have been caring, last I recall I have pulled beyond my weight! Sooner it later you just don't care anymore and then become the reason nothing is happening...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mr. Mintcake,

Again, this kind of thing should never have happened to any decent human beings who love their spouses..

Life is too short to be unloved. Consider your options. You can stop making her feel sick, by making a permanent retirement from the status of being her husband. There, she will be forever cured from the sickness of being with you, and you don't have to feel bad about it anymore.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Mr. Mintcake,
> 
> Again, this kind of thing should never have happened to any decent human beings who love their spouses..
> 
> Life is too short to be unloved. Consider your options. You can stop making her feel sick, by making a permanent retirement from the status of being her husband. There, she will be forever cured from the sickness of being with you, and you don't have to feel bad about it anymore.


It's a wise suggestion - I am the kjnd not person known for never giving up and having a fierce desire to succeed. I have achieved quite a lot bit this is one bit I can't seem to crack. It's sad but I dj find myself perusing the split up section here 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

JoeHenderson said:


> We are at 0. We've been married 3 years, together 8.
> 
> The first part of the year was W rejecting my advances. Sometime in mid January, we had the sex talk. I said that sex is an emotional outlet for me, that I want us to work together on this, and it would be wise for her to see a dr. W said having sex while breastfeeding would make her feel resentful cuz she's touched out from breastfeeding (she BFs once a day now...) and that she'll consider seeing a dr. or going to marital counseling after she's done BFing and it continues to be a problem.
> 
> ...


I've heard that about breastfeeding, but what are you going to do if she breastfeeds the baby until he's 4 years old???


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## JoeHenderson (Oct 3, 2011)

Chris Taylor said:


> I've heard that about breastfeeding, but what are you going to do if she breastfeeds the baby until he's 4 years old???


Well I don't really believe what she's saying. I get the hormonal thing, but she could still try to do something about it if she cared. so i'm inclined to think that the breastfeeding is a way to buy time until her next excuse, which will likely be that she's grieving the fact that she is no longer breastfeeding. I hope that we will not be married if it's the same song and dance when our child is 4.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

KendalMintcake said:


> It's a wise suggestion - I am the kjnd not person known for never giving up and having a fierce desire to succeed. I have achieved quite a lot bit this is one bit I can't seem to crack. It's sad but I dj find myself perusing the split up section here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As a kid, I wanted to be a professional basketball player. I played all the time, practicing my skills, getting better. I played in grade school, played in middle school team, but sat the bench in high school. At times, you really did not need to wash my uniform. Even as a senior, I rarely played.

At some point, the failure to recognize and admit the facts on the ground turns into delusion. My continuing my dream in college would have been delusion and rightly mocked.

What are the facts on the ground in your life?


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Well, we are at 10 and holding. My wife is having severe abdominal pain that we think is related to a fibroid that is outside of her uterus. She will hopefully have tests tomorrow. It may mean a hysterectomy which will mean no sex for two months post op. That is ok because I just want her to get feeling better! I am getting great hand jobs, but I must confess that I really miss the connection that only sex provides.


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

Zero. Unless my double a battery friend counts then, 4+ times a week. Yay but I have other problems right now.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

romantic_guy said:


> Well, we are at 10 and holding. My wife is having severe abdominal pain that we think is related to a fibroid that is outside of her uterus. She will hopefully have tests tomorrow. It may mean a hysterectomy which will mean no sex for two months post op. That is ok because I just want her to get feeling better! I am getting great hand jobs, but I must confess that I really miss the connection that only sex provides.


Just curious, no BJ? Just not into it?


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

Surprised nobody has at least asked this question:

Is it at all possible she's cheating on you? At what point did sex start declining? Most betrayed husbands notice a precipitous drop in sex around the time their wives start fooling around with another man.

Not trying to create paranoia, just something for you to assess whether its possible or not.


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## humdrumbum (Mar 2, 2013)

The tally is a glorious '1' for me, about 3 weeks ago for boring as heck vanilla sex. My wife has slowly morphed into a prude over the last 24 years.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

humdrumbum said:


> The tally is a glorious '1' for me, about 3 weeks ago for boring as heck vanilla sex. My wife has slowly morphed into a prude over the last 24 years.


Well, you've got company. I posted on this when the thread started that it has been once this year ... still once this year. That was a special circumstance. Took her to Cancun and it was the first night. It was quick ... she complained that it was making her too sore so I stopped. Didn't even complete. So if you don't complete, does that even count? lol


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Jeradsjunk said:


> About 30 times this year. Used to be once a week if I was lucky. Married 13 years, together 18, 2 kids. Wife used to have trouble orgasiming. Magic wand has been the best purchase I have ever made .


Ha! Probably not 30 times in the last 8 to 10 years. So between the ages of 35 and 45 while in the best shape of my life, I've had sex maybe 30 times. I have to stop reading these threads ... far too depressing,


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

If I had to make an estimate I'd say we're in the 49-52 range.I know some days this year we didn't do it but then other days we did it twice so I can only estimate.
I love it but I doubt it's something that is sustainable for years on end.The thought of it dropping off someday is depressing.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> If I had to make an estimate I'd say we're in the 49-52 range.I know some days this year we didn't do it but then other days we did it twice so I can only estimate.
> I love it but I doubt it's something that is sustainable for years on end.The thought of it dropping off someday is depressing.


Fine, just rub it in


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Fine, just rub it in


not at all,I consider doing it every day a way of stocking up on masturbatory memories for when it finally slows down. If TAM is any indicator of typical relationships,it will drop off at some point.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

Ok, ok, going to keep track. Although not married, wondering how I'm doing. I am so anal at times.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

romantic_guy said:


> Well, we are at 10 and holding. My wife is having severe abdominal pain that we think is related to a fibroid that is outside of her uterus. She will hopefully have tests tomorrow. It may mean a hysterectomy which will mean no sex for two months post op. That is ok because I just want her to get feeling better! I am getting great hand jobs, but I must confess that I really miss the connection that only sex provides.


Good to hear of another man he is happy to put his wife's "needs" above his own "wants". I am sure that your wife will remember / reward your patience and understanding.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> not at all,I consider doing it every day a way of stocking up on masturbatory memories for when it finally slows down. If TAM is any indicator of typical relationships,it will drop off at some point.


Ha! I live only on my masturbatory memories, lol. No, it doesn't have to be that way. There are a number of reasons why my marriage is sexless but it isn't inevitable and there are plenty of marriages where the romance and intimacy is alive and well. I've been married for 20 years and you see a lot of relationships starting to fail around that time-frame. People change. My philosophy is that if you aren't growing together than you are growing apart. We've grown apart in our marriage and the result is a marriage devoid of intimacy.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

I am at one this year. By one I mean me orally pleasuring my wife for nearly an hour and getting a quick hand job in return. Four times last year. I started masturbating every day in order to keep the resentment to the minimum, but lately I started hating myself for doing this, because I know I am doing this only to be able to function. The resentment is slowly starting to overtake my thoughts for most of the day.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

We're at about 12 times actual intercourse, and another 20 or so times of bj's, oral, solo / mutual masterbation. It's been a bit of a slower few months for us due to flu, back issues, etc. We typically have more intercourse than that. This last weekend we were both feeling better, and it was a weekend long sex-fest. 

But, neither of us has ever been LD with each other. Our previous marriages, on the other hand, were brutal. She was at once or twice a year or so, and I was getting it (anything) from my ex maybe once a quarter. After 9 months of that, I was gone (3 years into that marriage). There seemed to be no fixing it, so I bowed out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Three. 

Exactly the same number of licks it takes to get to the centre of a tootsie pop.

Since our first MC session almost two weeks ago we have not hugged or kissed or said I love you to one another. I asked two days after our session if I could kiss her goodnight. No thank you was her response. No more asking then. I will not touch her. 

Since that time we have been barely amicable. The sh*t of our marriage sits just below the surface. A quick stir makes it all rise.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Rakkasan said:


> I am at one this year. By one I mean me orally pleasuring my wife for nearly an hour and getting a quick hand job in return. Four times last year. I started masturbating every day in order to keep the resentment to the minimum, but lately I started hating myself for doing this, because I know I am doing this only to be able to function. The resentment is slowly starting to overtake my thoughts for most of the day.


Sounds like your life is parallel to mine. Resentment is a good word - that is the worst part of it ... I have replaced intimacy in my life with resentment. Sadly, I'm jealous of those in here who are 'dying' because they haven't had it in a few days or a week. Difficult to feel empathy for them.

I have a feeling this is coming to a head with my wife very soon. It isn't going to be pretty.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Sounds like your life is parallel to mine. Resentment is a good word - that is the worst part of it ... I have replaced intimacy in my life with resentment. Sadly, I'm jealous of those in here who are 'dying' because they haven't had it in a few days or a week. Difficult to feel empathy for them.
> 
> I have a feeling this is coming to a head with my wife very soon. It isn't going to be pretty.


This sort of situation cannot go on forever, it is a fix it or end it type of scenario IMHO. Living a life where resentment is the main emotion will slowly kill you, literally.
When I was near the end of the marriage I was getting really sick, my hair was falling out, chest pains, weight gain, sleep problems etc. It was all down to stress and resentment. These symptoms disappeared a few months after the marriage ended.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Holland said:


> This sort of situation cannot go on forever, it is a fix it or end it type of scenario IMHO. Living a life where resentment is the main emotion will slowly kill you, literally.
> When I was near the end of the marriage I was getting really sick, my hair was falling out, chest pains, weight gain, sleep problems etc. It was all down to stress and resentment. These symptoms disappeared a few months after the marriage ended.


Thank you for pointing out the physical effects of resentment. I know to well what you mean.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Sounds like your life is parallel to mine. Resentment is a good word - that is the worst part of it ... I have replaced intimacy in my life with resentment. Sadly, I'm jealous of those in here who are 'dying' because they haven't had it in a few days or a week. Difficult to feel empathy for them.
> 
> I have a feeling this is coming to a head with my wife very soon. It isn't going to be pretty.


Yes, I am deeply jealous of all those who are complaining that they are intimate with their spouses only on weekly or monthly basis. 

As far as your situation, does your wife still welcomes any affection from you? I think my wife enjoyed me hugging her and caressing her, although she never reciprocated. (We stopped kissing years ago at her request). 

So I put a stop to hugging yesterday, and I stopped saying "I love you", I think I might had overused these words. Now the only physical contact with me that my W cannot do without is cuddling at night. She can't fall asleep without it. I am considering cutting this off, just so she has an idea what does rejection feels like. Any thoughts?


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## NeverAgain12 (Jan 15, 2012)

Rakkasan, I don't jump in here much but if you stopped kissing years ago because she requested it, I would have stopped the cuddling that night. Is she deliberately trying to torture you?

I can't believe the selfishness of some people.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Holland said:


> This sort of situation cannot go on forever, it is a fix it or end it type of scenario IMHO. Living a life where resentment is the main emotion will slowly kill you, literally.
> When I was near the end of the marriage I was getting really sick, my hair was falling out, chest pains, weight gain, sleep problems etc. It was all down to stress and resentment. These symptoms disappeared a few months after the marriage ended.


Yes, I've lost weight (I lose weight when stressed) and my normally thick hair is now much thinner in a very short period of time (for the first time, hair collects in my shower). My stress is at an all time high. No matter how much I work out I feel bad most of the time.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Yes, I've lost weight (I lose weight when stressed) and my normally thick hair is now much thinner in a very short period of time (for the first time, hair collects in my shower). My stress is at an all time high. No matter how much I work out I feel bad most of the time.


I am really sorry to hear this. I have long, thick hair and it was coming out in handfuls. it really scared me. It stopped after I finally took some action and ended the marriage. Not suggesting you do this BTW just saying that some action needs to be taken, your health is at risk.

Stress is a major health issue.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

NeverAgain12 said:


> Rakkasan, I don't jump in here much but if you stopped kissing years ago because she requested it, I would have stopped the cuddling that night. Is she deliberately trying to torture you?
> 
> I can't believe the selfishness of some people.


The way I saw it, if kissing was a turn off for her, why force her? I guess she was discussed with fluids exchange. At first I thought that maybe I had a bad breath or something, but ruled out that option. I am anal about my oral hygiene. Wait, that did not sound right, did it?


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Yes, I've lost weight (I lose weight when stressed) and my normally thick hair is now much thinner in a very short period of time (for the first time, hair collects in my shower). My stress is at an all time high. No matter how much I work out I feel bad most of the time.


My body reaction to the resentment is not that extreme (yet?) but I find it really hard to concentrate at work, if all I think about is not being wanted by the person who is dearest to my heart. I went through many divorce scenarios in my head already, but what will I say to my three sons when they grow up, "Daddy left Mommy and you because he could not control himself?" Besides, it is not her fault, it is the hyperthyroid (I think). 

If anyone would like to offer me a more specific advice please stop by "LD and Thyroid" thread.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Rakkasan said:


> My body reaction to the resentment is not that extreme (yet?) but I find it really hard to concentrate at work, if all I think about is not being wanted by the person who is dearest to my heart. I went through many divorce scenarios in my head already, but what will I say to my three sons when they grow up, *"Daddy left Mommy and you because he could not control himself?"* Besides, it is not her fault, it is the hyperthyroid (I think).
> 
> If anyone would like to offer me a more specific advice please stop by "LD and Thyroid" thread.


No you don't have to be that specific with your children. We simply said that mum and dad loved them (the kids) so very much but we had fallen out of love with each other. It is most important that children know they are loved no matter what and that it is not their fault.

FWIW my kids are very happy now, they knew their parents were unhappy, kids don't want that.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Holland said:


> No you don't have to be that specific with your children. We simply said that mum and dad loved them (the kids) so very much but we had fallen out of love with each other. It is most important that children know they are loved no matter what and that it is not their fault.
> 
> FWIW my kids are very happy now, they knew their parents were unhappy, kids don't want that.


The problem is that I am very happy in my marriage. With the exception of sex. Recently the sex, or the lack of, is casting a shadow on everything else that my otherwise happy marriage has to offer. Would it be fair to divorce a woman who loves me, leave kids who love me, for this one tiny dimension of a relationship??? On the other hand, there was nothing in my wedding oath about life in celibacy. My best friend is on his way to be a priest, and I envy him because he chose to be celibate.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Rakkasan said:


> The problem is that I am very happy in my marriage. With the exception of sex. Recently the sex, or the lack of, is casting a shadow on everything else that my otherwise happy marriage has to offer. Would it be fair to divorce a woman who loves me, leave kids who love me, for this one tiny dimension of a relationship??? On the other hand, there was nothing in my wedding oath about life in celibacy. My best friend is on his way to be a priest, and I envy him because he chose to be celibate.


How recent is recent? There are always ebbs and flows in a normal marriage. Have you talked to her about this? My marriage has been essentially sexless for years on end and there are a number of reasons for it. I need to decide if my celibacy is worth it for the children but it sounds like you don't need to be thinking about that quite yet. There could be any number of reasons but it could also be that she isn't as happy as you think. You guys need to talk.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Rakkasan said:


> The problem is that I am very happy in my marriage. With the exception of sex. Recently the sex, or the lack of, is casting a shadow on everything else that my otherwise happy marriage has to offer. Would it be fair to divorce a woman who loves me, leave kids who love me, for this one tiny dimension of a relationship??? On the other hand, there was nothing in my wedding oath about life in celibacy. My best friend is on his way to be a priest, and I envy him because he chose to be celibate.


Speaking of celibacy, I guess it's time to head up to bed alone again for my nightly ritual, lol. Doesn't count against celibacy I think.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> How recent is recent? There are always ebbs and flows in a normal marriage. Have you talked to her about this?


Oh God, that is a hard question. Recent as in 4 times a year - last two years. Recent as 7 times a year? Last 3-5 years. Recent as 12 times a year? Last 6-8 years of my marriage.

If you noticed I left 2-3 and 5-6 years out of the equation, it was because these years were true celibate years, with no sex. Yet they were the best years because I was too busy hunting down the terrorists in the Middle East to think about a wife who doesn't want me anymore.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Yeah I talked. She takes it really hard. I don't think she wants to be like this. I try to reason with myself, that it is not me, it is the thyroid, but I feel like I no longer can contain the resentment.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Speaking of celibacy, I guess it's time to head up to bed alone again for my nightly ritual, lol. Doesn't count against celibacy I think.


I have been considering moving out to another bedroom. I would deny her the only intimacy she needs from me- cuddling together at night. I am not sure if this is not too cruel for her.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Of course you should stop cuddling. And moving out of the bedroom isn't a bad idea. But kicking her out would be better. Bottom line is, by cuddling her you are rewarding her for forcing celibacy. You are training her to treat you badly.


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Of course you should stop cuddling. And moving out of the bedroom isn't a bad idea. But kicking her out would be better. Bottom line is, by cuddling her you are rewarding her for forcing celibacy. You are training her to treat you badly.


I feel so badly for all you members who spouses reject you.
Why do some people marry then avoid sex for a simple few hours a week.Such a small thing to do for your other.

My wife has life threatning asthma for our whole marriage
and we manage two time a week after 25yrs.
There's no excuse for completely health spouses.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Of course you should stop cuddling. And moving out of the bedroom isn't a bad idea. But kicking her out would be better. Bottom line is, by cuddling her you are rewarding her for forcing celibacy. You are training her to treat you badly.


Thanks buddy. I am slowly maturing to make this decision. And your opinion counts. It is really hard, because in the past sleeping in another bedroom was the form of the harshest punishment that I ever used on her, reserved for the situations when I was enraged with her obsessive jealousy. And I don't get upset easily. I got rejected yesterday. I wasn't asking for sex, I was asking to lay close together in a bed, like we used to; the toddlers were fast asleep, the oldest was at his friend's, and we had absolutely nothing to do. Her answer was short sweet and to the point: "No". Didn't even bother with further explanation.

So what do I say to her when I move out of the bedroom? She is not a bad person, she is a good wife and and great mother. Should I be brutally honest, or should I pretend I am just trying to get a good night sleep.

On the side note, she has hard time falling asleep without me being there. Which would kinda even out the fact that I have trouble sleeping because I am obsessing the lack of affection on her part,


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Best guess 35, including yesterdays nooner...." I gotta run some errands during lunch"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

Gseries said:


> Best guess 35, including yesterdays nooner...." I gotta run some errands during lunch"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nice.


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## hopelesslove (Nov 2, 2012)

Rakkasan said:


> Thanks buddy. I am slowly maturing to make this decision. And your opinion counts. It is really hard, because in the past sleeping in another bedroom was the form of the harshest punishment that I ever used on her, reserved for the situations when I was enraged with her obsessive jealousy. And I don't get upset easily. I got rejected yesterday. I wasn't asking for sex, I was asking to lay close together in a bed, like we used to; the toddlers were fast asleep, the oldest was at his friend's, and we had absolutely nothing to do. Her answer was short sweet and to the point: "No". Didn't even bother with further explanation.
> 
> So what do I say to her when I move out of the bedroom? She is not a bad person, she is a good wife and and great mother. Should I be brutally honest, or should I pretend I am just trying to get a good night sleep.
> 
> On the side note, she has hard time falling asleep without me being there. Which would kinda even out the fact that I have trouble sleeping because I am obsessing the lack of affection on her part,


Oh how I can relate to your situation. Everyone has a different idea of what a "normal" cumulative count should be but when you and your partners don't match up thats when there is a problem. For the year mine is 4. I would like that to be for the week. 

I just have to tell you to be up front with her if you move to the other bedroom. I moved into the other bedroom and told my husband it was because he snores, which he does, but this solved nothing. Even after being honest with him the seperation into the other room didn't hurt anyone but myself. He still got sleep, no sex, no intamacy..etc. I'm doing all the work to try to fix things like looking for help with a counselor and on forums and he seems happy with the way things are. My next step has to be more drastic like moving out. I don't think I have the guts. I wish you luck in whatever you decide.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

So she gets the message also I would start by separating the finances. No more joint ccs, keep the joint acct. for her and you set up a bank acct. for yourself. Start going out a few nights a week and let her wonder where you are at or go work out. I mean one can only put up with this so long.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

I've never kept count, but it ebbs and flows. Usually daily, sometimes 2 or 3 x a day, then a couple days without. His new workout schedule has him extremely tired, so things have slowed down a bit. I don't like that at all.


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

2 or 3x a day? Sheesh!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

At 10 after getting turned down tonight. I have about a 50% rejection rate from my lovely "me first" wife.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Gseries said:


> Best guess 35, including yesterdays nooner...." I gotta run some errands during lunch"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nice!

I would guess I haven't had sex with my wife 35 times in the last 10 years. I'm only 45.

I'm at 1 this year and I'm debating whether that really counted  

I think I'm going to take that vow of celibacy ... kind of a glass half-full thing ... it will make it seem like I'm working towards a goal instead of what it feels like right now (emasculated is a word that rings true). So, I think I'll post on this thread the first of the month for the rest of the year and have a toast on New Years if I can keep it at 1 ... or cry ... no, toast ... gotta keep it positive.

People ask me why I work out so much ... I just tell them 'stress relief.'


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Can't just "go for it?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Gseries said:


> Can't just "go for it?"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure, I could also could also call an escort service if I just wanted a hole to "get off." Does that sound appealing to you? Our relationship is complicated. No threadjack here so I'll try to keep it short:

1) She passed the point of being attractive to me at about 250lbs ... she now weighs about 330lbs. She doesn't even look like the person I married ... I don't have a lot of hangups about looks, really not that picky because it is USUALLY about the connection ... but that much weight is a real hangup for me. Her weight is something I just can't seem to get her to work on without telling her, hey you're gross ... which is about how she will interpret anything I say no matter how delicately. So most of the time if I'm in the mood, I look at her and think ... yeesh!

2) She is LD and rarely initiates on her own. If she does initiate, it isn't about sex ... it is about connection. She has admitted that it just isn't important to her and I believe her ... I've read her texts/emails, I know her friends, where she goes, how she spends her money, what websites she visits etc. ... it's not something she talks about or appears to even think about. I'm sure she does, just not very often. Looking back 22 years ago when we met, I should have known the signs. My previous girlfriend was an incredible lover and a terrible person. I married the opposite. She has NEVER been all that interested in sex. Me, I think about it all the time, always have.

3) Over the years we have lost our connection. It is a combination of things. She has fought depression since she was a child (she's 42 now) and there have been times she has fallen completely apart. It has been very difficult and has taken a toll. I have a lot of resentment built up from her "laziness" ... I say lazy but she is remarkably persistent about the things she cares about, our children for example. Essentially, even though I work in a job that takes more than 40 hours per week, I still have to do almost everything around the house ... or it simply doesn't get done. We have different social interests. She is VERY religious and spends her time in that social group ... she converted halfway through our marriage. I am NOT religious and do not feel all that comfortable with people who wear their religion on their sleeve. I like active things, she doesn't ... in other words, not a lot in common in regards to how we spend our time and have struggled to find things we both enjoy ... except eat ... and that's a problem. There are too many reasons to go into as to why we lost our emotional connection but it is gone and doesn't have the physical aspect to keep it going. We are just friends with the additional responsibility of keeping a home and raising children.

There are times when the stars line up correctly and we get past it all and have sex. It isn't all that good. It used to be great. It feels disconnected ... like I just paid someone to do it. Heck, she has gotten so large I can't even kiss her during PIV without stopping. It is disjointed ... it feels like having sex with your morbidly obese sister. I can't explain it. We used to have such an incredible connection many years ago and now it is just ... gone.

The one time we had sex this year was when I took her to Cancun. It was the first night. It was terrible. She asked me to stop because I was making her sore. The environment really had me going and maybe I was too aggressive but she was the only one who finished that night. 

So yes, I could persist about having sex and she might even say yes but what I want is intimacy and desire ... to want and to be wanted, not a hole to stick it into. I could hire someone to do that ... and that just isn't me.


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## 1971 (Mar 7, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> So yes, I could persist about having sex and she might even say yes but what I want is intimacy and desire ... to want and to be wanted, not a hole to stick it into. I could hire someone to do that ... and that just isn't me.


Well there are so many people out there in similar situations

I'm not sure what our count for the year is but about 2 x week but it has nothing to do with how many times you do it, it is just what you said *Intimacy, desire and wanting to be wanted.*


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho.

This is depressing what you wrote. What are your views on having an affair?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Rakkasan said:


> JustSomeGuyWho.
> 
> This is depressing what you wrote. What are your views on having an affair?


I won't do it. No matter what our problems are, it isn't fair to her. This is more my problem than hers. I am sure she can spend the rest of our lives without having much sex. Has it crossed my mind? Sure, I've had opportunities ... but I would rather divorce than go that route. I am loyal to a fault. Another big reason is my children. I have two daughters. When it comes down to it, I am their first male relationship and this relationship will have long term consequences on their future relationships. I would have a very difficult time living with the guilt if their father, the leader of the family, is found to be a cheater, with all the lies and deception that comes with it, with little regard for the people it might affect. 

I gave my oldest daughter a small budget this past xmas to decorate her room. Among other things, she purchased 4 signs to hang on her wall. One of them says "I have found my prince, I call him Daddy." Is that worth destroying so that I can have sex? No, I will continue to try to figure it out ... and if I can't then I will divorce ... cheating is not the answer.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Rakkasan said:


> JustSomeGuyWho.
> 
> This is depressing what you wrote. What are your views on having an affair?


Well, if it sounds depressing to you, imagine how I feel.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I won't do it. No matter what our problems are, it isn't fair to her. This is more my problem than hers. I am sure she can spend the rest of our lives without having much sex. Has it crossed my mind? Sure, I've had opportunities ... but I would rather divorce than go that route. I am loyal to a fault. Another big reason is my children. I have two daughters. When it comes down to it, I am their first male relationship and this relationship will have long term consequences on their future relationships. I would have a very difficult time living with the guilt if their father, the leader of the family, is found to be a cheater, with all the lies and deception that comes with it, with little regard for the people it might affect.
> 
> I gave my oldest daughter a small budget this past xmas to decorate her room. Among other things, she purchased 4 signs to hang on her wall. One of them says "I have found my prince, I call him Daddy." Is that worth destroying so that I can have sex? No, I will continue to try to figure it out ... and if I can't then I will divorce ... cheating is not the answer.


Not much consolation but good on you for hanging onto your values. Cheating is not the answer, it only makes more hurt. That sort of hurt children would never get over and the loss of respect as a parent is not worth it. Children can however recover from an amicable or at least half amicable divorce.

I don't know you but want to give you a hug after reading your posts, I am so sorry you are going through this. I know and feel your pain.
Would you show your wife this thread? Do you think there could be a chance reading all of this could help?


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Is that worth destroying so that I can have sex? No, I will continue to try to figure it out ... and if I can't then I will divorce ... cheating is not the answer.


You are a good man, you know?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Holland said:


> Not much consolation but good on you for hanging onto your values. Cheating is not the answer, it only makes more hurt. That sort of hurt children would never get over and the loss of respect as a parent is not worth it. Children can however recover from an amicable or at least half amicable divorce.
> 
> I don't know you but want to give you a hug after reading your posts, I am so sorry you are going through this. I know and feel your pain.
> Would you show your wife this thread? Do you think there could be a chance reading all of this could help?


Thank you Holland, I truly appreciate that. Hugs are good 

I have considered showing her this site but I think the hard truth would be too much for her. This is the only place that I feel I can be open and honest with my feelings. Most of my local friends are work related and I don't feel it is prudent to share these things with them. Not sure they would understand anyway. This is where I come to share. I need to confront her somehow about how I feel and I'm sort of using this site, reading through all the stories and trying to bring some perspective to this and come up with ideas. 

As far as her weight issue, I have 3 guys at work who have lost a combined 400lbs in the last 2.5 years. It started with one guy, giving another one the idea and now a third has joined them. The last one has lost over 120lbs in the last year. Two of them have now run full marathons and the third one is going on his first half marathon this month. They've inspired people all over the company to lose weight, including our CEO. I've been talking with them for a while now about my wife and today one of them gave me a "book-on-tape" (mp3) that goes into detail about insulin response and carbs. He used it to lose much of his weight ... and bring his BP from 160/100 to normal in the last 6 months. I don't think she would read a book on it but she might listen to this. If she does and I know her well enough, she will try implementing some changes. She is adverse to exercise but I think she could buy into this. It's just one idea. I'll throw anything at the problem to see if it sticks.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

Right around 60. A normal month for us about 34 times, but we took 2 weeks off while recovering from surgery. 

We're a good HD/HD match, and we're definitely sure that our frequency is high in good part due to the things we do outside the bedroom for each other/the relationship. When discussing stuff, we actually use the phrase "working to be the person the other would desire in their life" (or something very close to it).


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

The variation surprises me. I guess the 2x per week statistic is just that...a statistic....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Well ... monthly update. So far still at 1 for this year. Wish it was an April Fool's joke


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## FrustratedInTexas (Apr 1, 2013)

Well to date 1 time this year. There was one other time of fooling around early in January, and after making sure my wife got off she got "tired" and laid next to me looking bored while I finished myself


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

1 on new years after midnight....

Better than last year which was 0


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I think us "1" guys need to start a club. Last one to get laid buys a round of drinks.


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## Thoreau (Nov 12, 2012)

Member of the big 0 club.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Thoreau said:


> Member of the big 0 club.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is that an "oh" or a "zero" ... huge difference


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## Thoreau (Nov 12, 2012)

Oh....I wish it were an o but its a 0. Zerozipzilchnadanothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Thoreau said:


> Oh....I wish it were an o but its a 0. Zerozipzilchnadanothing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well if it's any consolation my "1" shouldn't count ... I took her to Cancun, guess she felt obligated. Neither of us finished because we had to stop. Too sore she says. Whatever. Should be downgraded to a "half" 

You know most of the time, I just try to get past it. Focus on my kids and life ... and sometimes my resentment shows. Trying hard to get over it and just deal with it. I'm doing better but I have my moments ... I mean Plan 9 has had sex more often with his wife just this year than I've had in more than a decade. Good for him but ...


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## FrustratedInTexas (Apr 1, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well if it's any consolation my "1" shouldn't count ... I took her to Cancun, guess she felt obligated. Neither of us finished because we had to stop. Too sore she says. Whatever. Should be downgraded to a "half"
> 
> You know most of the time, I just try to get past it. Focus on my kids and life ... and sometimes my resentment shows. Trying hard to get over it and just deal with it. I'm doing better but I have my moments ... I mean Plan 9 has had sex more often with his wife just this year than I've had in more than a decade. Good for him but ...


I thought last year was bad, grand total for the year was 8, and my wife and I have only been married for 5 years. I am 30 and she is 26. 3 of those 8 were in December when she suddenly said "I really would like to have sex 2 or 3 times a week." I was floored and believed it, now 2013 is looking to be drier than 2012! 

I get the usual excuses, "I'm just too tired", "I don't feel good", or I've done one random thing wrong and it's cold shoulder time.

I went so far as to tell her I had been grumpy and edgy because she never shows interest and never initiates. She had the gall to tell me it was my fault because I haven't initiated enough! Really! I am always the one who does and I don't feel like being the one who always starts it. I feel she should make an effort to show me she wants me 

It's now been a week since we had that argument and she acts like it never happened and everything is just hunky dory.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

FrustratedInTexas said:


> I thought last year was bad, grand total for the year was 8, and my wife and I have only been married for 5 years. I am 30 and she is 26. 3 of those 8 were in December when she suddenly said "I really would like to have sex 2 or 3 times a week." I was floored and believed it, now 2013 is looking to be drier than 2012!
> 
> I get the usual excuses, "I'm just too tired", "I don't feel good", or I've done one random thing wrong and it's cold shoulder time.
> 
> ...


Hmmm. That sounds odd. First, both of you are young. I'm 45 and most of our problems have been within the last 12 to 15 years. Not that it makes it any easier when you are 45 but your marriage is a lot "fresher" than ours. Second, why did she all of a sudden decide she wants to have sex 2 or 3 times a week ... and then just as suddenly, not want to? My wife is LD ... she has never once suggested we have sex more often, even early in our marriage, but yours has. What motivated her to do that? It's one thing if she really has no interest and its quite another thing if she DOES have interest but not necessarily with you or in your relationship as it is now. If you haven't already, you need to have a very honest discussion with her about this.


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## FrustratedInTexas (Apr 1, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Hmmm. That sounds odd. First, both of you are young. I'm 45 and most of our problems have been within the last 12 to 15 years. Not that it makes it any easier when you are 45 but your marriage is a lot "fresher" than ours. Second, why did she all of a sudden decide she wants to have sex 2 or 3 times a week ... and then just as suddenly, not want to? My wife is LD ... she has never once suggested we have sex more often, even early in our marriage, but yours has. What motivated her to do that? It's one thing if she really has no interest and its quite another thing if she DOES have interest but not necessarily with you or in your relationship as it is now. If you haven't already, you need to have a very honest discussion with her about this.


I have tried to on several occasions, and usually she shuts down and says "I'll work on it", or it gets turned around on me. When we do have sex she looks bored, and I can tell she tries to get me off as fast as possible. I love giving her oral, but she usually pushes me away when I try, and as soon as we are done having sex she runs off to the shower and just throws me a towel to clean up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Still "*0*" for some of us self-respecting people going through the pangs of divorce here in Brazos County~ but if you'll just bother to go across the river to the other county and ask my STBXW on where "her count" is currently standing, she'll probably be grinning like a







~ greatly because she seems to get serviced quite often on her many road trips to see "Lil' Lord Lardass!"


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Wow Arbitrator. That sucks.


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## Rakkasan (Mar 4, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well ... monthly update. So far still at 1 for this year. Wish it was an April Fool's joke


Same here brother!


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Well, it was at 18 when this thread started and 6 weeks later, its now probably 24 or 25 

H has been traveling, traveling, traveling. And when he's not traveling he is working long hours. 

I want to ask for more but I don't know what that does for a man's ego. I hope he's not thinking that since I have been struggling with morning (and noon and night) sickness, that I don't feel like it. I do! I do!


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> Well, it was at 18 when this thread started and 6 weeks later, its now probably 24 or 25
> 
> H has been traveling, traveling, traveling. And when he's not traveling he is working long hours.
> 
> I want to ask for more but I don't know what that does for a man's ego. I hope he's not thinking that since I have been struggling with morning (and noon and night) sickness, that I don't feel like it. I do! I do!


I don't know about the other guys here but if a woman told me "I want more sex with you, you hot stud" ... I wouldn't be offended


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

So if I walk into the thread an announce "2 times".... "since the beginning of April", will I need to duck various things thrown at me? :smthumbup:



FrustratedInTexas said:


> I thought last year was bad, grand total for the year was 8, and my wife and I have only been married for 5 years. I am 30 and she is 26. 3 of those 8 were in December when she suddenly said "I really would like to have sex 2 or 3 times a week." I was floored and believed it, now 2013 is looking to be drier than 2012!
> 
> I get the usual excuses, "I'm just too tired", "I don't feel good", or I've done one random thing wrong and it's cold shoulder time.
> 
> ...


Frustrated... your brief posts have the hair on the back of my neck standing up... Something is very not right with your marriage situation... multiple possible red flags. And you're probably in the worst position of anyone to assess it (boiled frog principal) JustSomeGuyWho senses it too. At your ages, and no kids...Am I correct to assume no kids?, your marriage qualifies for a clinical diagnosis of sexless. Not unheard of but, but uncommon enough and abnormal.

So many questions to try and get to the bottom of your situation (should you even want to hear the thoughts of strangers).. where to start? At the beginning... has it always been this way (her low drive/disinterest)? A gradual decline over years? Sudden onset after ingestion of wedding cake? something else?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Anubis said:


> So if I walk into the thread an announce "2 times".... "since the beginning of April", will I need to duck various things thrown at me? :smthumbup:


I have virtually thrown things at you. Did your screen go wobbly once or twice? ... yeah that was me 

I agree with your comment to Frustrated. I see potential red flags too.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I have virtually thrown things at you. Did your screen go wobbly once or twice? ... yeah that was me
> 
> I agree with your comment to Frustrated. I see potential red flags too.


I ducked, but look at the mess I have to clean up now... sheesh. :rofl:

I'm curious to see if Frustrated comes back with more info. when I was his age I was in a similar situation. Twice in my first marriage I went more than 12 months without, and several years were single digit years. I was and idiot and wish I had a resource like TAM back then.


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## wifeiam (Apr 1, 2013)

I've been talking with them for a while now about my wife and today one of them gave me a "book-on-tape" (mp3) that goes into detail about insulin response and carbs. He used it to lose much of his weight ... and bring his BP from 160/100 to normal in the last 6 months. I don't think she would read a book on it but she might listen to this. If she does and I know her well enough, she will try implementing some changes. She is adverse to exercise but I think she could buy into this. It's just one idea. I'll throw anything at the problem to see if it sticks.[/QUOTE]

Sorry to hear of the trouble there. I relate as I am at 0 and at least a big part due to weight issues (both of us). Would you share the name of that book please? I think getting it on tape is a GREAT idea!


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

A rough estimate would be 50-55. Not bragging, actually pretty amazed. In our early years, it would have been more like 3 or 4.


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## Angus1985 (Feb 14, 2013)

Probably about 30-35


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

FrustratedInTexas said:


> I get the usual excuses, "I'm just too tired", "I don't feel good", or I've done one random thing wrong and it's cold shoulder time.
> 
> I went so far as to tell her I had been grumpy and edgy because she never shows interest and never initiates. She had the gall to tell me it was my fault because I haven't initiated enough! Really! I am always the one who does and I don't feel like being the one who always starts it. I feel she should make an effort to show me she wants me


Are you married to my wife? She's 31, I'm 37. I did have more last year (mainly because of wedding night and honeymoon). Some months last year were twice, more often once a month. This year I'm averaging once a month. Married 10 months.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

FrustratedInTexas said:


> I have tried to on several occasions, and usually she shuts down and says "I'll work on it", or it gets turned around on me.


I heard that exact line most recently on Friday.


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## mule kick (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm at about 40. If I was still with my wife our average would be about 6 this year. Have a friend that realized after about 2 years of a nearly sexless marriage that he could be having sex but she was stopping him. He had to leave her to stop being miserable. She was terribly passive aggressive and manipulative on top of having no sex life so he is much happier without her. 

He said she walked into his apartment one night not so long after they split and he had a list of names on the coffee table from a bragging session the night before and his ex was about halfway down the list. I think that's when she stopped trying to get him back.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Just for fun, my SO and I tried to come up with a count for the year and we came up with a bit over 100.

The thing that really stood out to me was not the number, but the fact that as we were talking about it, we were actually able to remember together most of the times that we have done it, that almost all of the times we have done it have been memorable. That really helped me realize all over again that indeed we do have a fantastic sex life.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

0.
2012: 0
2011: 0
2010: maybe 5-6x...

I really do love my wife... but I can't put up with this much longer.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> Just for fun, my SO and I tried to come up with a count for the year and we came up with a bit over 100.
> 
> The thing that really stood out to me was not the number, but the fact that as we were talking about it, we were actually able to remember together most of the times that we have done it, that almost all of the times we have done it have been memorable. That really helped me realize all over again that indeed we do have a fantastic sex life.


blah blah blah 

Probably haven't had that much sex with my wife my entire 20 year marriage.

.... but I've probably masturbated 15,000 times easily


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## mule kick (Apr 10, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Personally, I could do twice a day. However, my wife is a good bit lower. We've compromised and will have it anywhere from 2 - 4 times/week - depending on what's going on in our lives.
> 
> Here's what I noticed. Once we settled on this natural compromise (we never really talked it through - just naturally did it), I think her libido did rise match our frequency - for the most part I'll say. I think this is interesting and gives encouragement to the idea of "keep trying".


I want to agree with that... But... My ex and I tried to increase out time together numerous times. Got all sorts of great marital aids, tried some fun stuff. Turns out the thing that actually improved her sex drive beyond "duty sex" was a different man. Believe me my ego was shot. But after some time and a few other women I realized there was no problem with me, I got plenty of sincere compliments. 

I think it's just possible sometimes people grow apart. You know how they say "what has been seen cannot be unseen?" Maybe you can't always undo what has been done during a marriage. It's not really a matter of blame or counseling or getting God into your marriage, just 2 people that aren't going to be happy together anymore.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Really is a sad world for many husbands.... too many sexually frustrated men at the hands of their vows.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

It think it goes beyond sexual frustrations for both husbands and wives. It isn't about notches on your belt. It is about intimacy. It is about desiring and being desired ... and feeling desirable. You go long enough and it is tough to fight the feeling that there is something completely undesirable about you even if logically you know that's not true. Lack of sex often leads to a lack of affection ... physical contact with another human being ... and that is a very basic human need. Me ... even though I know we have both contributed to where we are now, I feel alone and almost isolated within my marriage with little hope of that changing in my life ... that is unless I divorce.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> It think it goes beyond sexual frustrations for both husbands and wives. It isn't about notches on your belt. It is about intimacy. It is about desiring and being desired ... and feeling desirable. You go long enough and it is tough to fight the feeling that there is something completely undesirable about you even if logically you know that's not true. Lack of sex often leads to a lack of affection ... physical contact with another human being ... and that is a very basic human need. Me ... even though I know we have both contributed to where we are now, I feel alone and almost isolated within my marriage with little hope of that changing in my life ... that is unless I divorce.


That's all I want. That moment of bonding. It cannot be replaced by some time alone on the internet. Not even remotely. Its like comparing the finest steak prepared just perfectly to a McDonalds cheeseburger.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I don't know about the other guys here but if a woman told me "I want more sex with you, you hot stud" ... I wouldn't be offended


Ok, JSG, I'm going to go for it! Do you thinking working long hours would make you too tired? Or does that not even matter? I don't want to be insensitive.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> Ok, JSG, I'm going to go for it! Do you thinking working long hours would make you too tired? Or does that not even matter? I don't want to be insensitive.


Well, I am an EXPERT at working long hours  I work in IT, I am good at it and I routinely have had projects that require 60, 80 or even 100 hours a week in some extreme instances. While I have gotten much better at balancing my life and saying no to certain projects or deadlines, there are still times where work demands a significant amount of my energy and focus. That along with my children and normal responsibilities is draining. 

I would say go for it!! No matter how tired I am, I wouldn't consider it insensitive. I might actually be too tired to be feeling it but thinking it was insensitive would mean I'm putting it in the same category as an obligation or duty and I never think of sex that way. I think I would only think it is insensitive if you weren't understanding if I said I was really just too tired; not in the asking. To add to that, if I'm that tired, thinking I might prefer to just collapse instead of mustering the energy to be the "master of my domain" ... I think I could be easily coaxed. Slip into something comfortable but accessible, lead him to bed; take his shoes off; tell him to relax; give him a gentle massage or just snuggle up with him. Give him some time to relax and just be with you and then give him a nice warm sensual kiss. Don't demand anything from him but let him soak in the feel of your warm body, your smell, the taste of your lips. Yep ... that should do the trick. If not right then, no worries, he will remember it for the next time he isn't so tired or stressed.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well, I am an EXPERT at working long hours  I work in IT, I am good at it and I routinely have had projects that require 60, 80 or even 100 hours a week in some extreme instances. While I have gotten much better at balancing my life and saying no to certain projects or deadlines, there are still times where work demands a significant amount of my energy and focus. That along with my children and normal responsibilities is draining.
> 
> I would say go for it!! No matter how tired I am, I wouldn't consider it insensitive. I might actually be too tired to be feeling it but thinking it was insensitive would mean I'm putting it in the same category as an obligation or duty and I never think of sex that way. I think I would only think it is insensitive if you weren't understanding if I said I was really just too tired; not in the asking. To add to that, if I'm that tired, thinking I might prefer to just collapse instead of mustering the energy to be the "master of my domain" ... I think I could be easily coaxed. Slip into something comfortable but accessible, lead him to bed; take his shoes off; tell him to relax; give him a gentle massage or just snuggle up with him. Give him some time to relax and just be with you and then give him a nice warm sensual kiss. Don't demand anything from him but let him soak in the feel of your warm body, your smell, the taste of your lips. Yep ... that should do the trick. If not right then, no worries, he will remember it for the next time he isn't so tired or stressed.


Got it! :smthumbup:


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Sounds like my IT husband. But, when he works all those crazy hours (works from home) I bend over backwards to make him happy. I know he's working his a$$ off for his family. It's those times I just want to lay next to him and fall asleep on his chest. No sex needed.


Glad you appreciate that! I would give away all my shoes to be laying my head on his chest right about now. Business travel sucks even more than long hours!!!


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

This thread is still going? Should I add on to my count somewhere on page 5?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Been there done that with the business travel...that's when he cheated on me and had an PA that wound up being more of an EA...OUCH.



Oh no! I didn't need to hear that. We're new to the heavy travel routine. How in the world did you get back to the state you're in now?


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Gseries said:


> This thread is still going? Should I add on to my count somewhere on page 5?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep a progress report would be in order. LOL


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Call it the first quarter statistics for CY13. 45 is our best guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

flipflops said:


> I don't think I've had that much action in the past 5 years combined.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Gseries said:


> Call it the first quarter statistics for CY13. 45 is our best guess.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You rock!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QuestioningMyMarriage (Apr 3, 2013)

There's women in the 1 club too


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

If you have a good sex life and you're still counting this far into the year that's weird.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

It's been slowing down the last few weeks. We're at 20 through March. I think a big part of it is my job, I'm working lots of hours.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Toffer said:


> I would get a room somewhere if I could afford to just to get away but where I live, just a room goes for about $400/month


Whoa! In prior years I've paid up to $950 for a room, and never less than $550 for crummy conditions and a commute.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

diwali123 said:


> If you have a good sex life and you're still counting this far into the year that's weird.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They could just be guessing ... but if they are actually counting then I agree. Since I can count on one finger, I don't need to guess, lol


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> They could just be guessing ... but if they are actually counting then I agree. Since I can count on one finger, I don't need to guess, lol


I just averaged the usual amount of times per week, added in that awesome weekend in Toronto  and gave a ballpark guess :smthumbup:

I don't keep an actual count LOL


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## JessicaRabbit (Apr 3, 2013)

If it makes the OP feel any better, its now April and I have only had sex 1 time this year and that was a quickie. I had to remind him it had been four months since the last time....and that was the third week of Jan!


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

diwali123 said:


> If you have a good sex life and you're still counting this far into the year that's weird.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Educated guess not counting. Women hit 40 and they are out of control. I have no problem admitting I can't keep up. Since "no" is not in the male vocabulary when it comes to sex...my usual reprieve is business trips. The sequester took care of that; no travel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QuestioningMyMarriage (Apr 3, 2013)

I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry at all the sex other people are having.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

4th day of April and already I have had more sex this month than the yearly average over the last few years of my past marriage.

Take it from someone that lived the nightmare, look at the red flags, observe the warnings, really consider if it is ever going to change.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Gseries said:


> Educated guess not counting. Women hit 40 and they are out of control. I have no problem admitting I can't keep up. Since "no" is not in the male vocabulary when it comes to sex...my usual reprieve is business trips. The sequester took care of that; no travel.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife is 42. She didn't get the memo.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

diwali123 said:


> If you have a good sex life and you're still counting this far into the year that's weird.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We actually did keep track for a whole month last year just to see what our average likely was (it was 37 times for that month), and we've been rather steady in our drives and situations for the last couple years. What was interesting was that there is usually a weekly cadence, with 3-5 times on the weekends, and often a day in the middle of the week with zero.


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## Gseries (Jan 6, 2013)

Approximate age, SVP?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

3 times...  I'm afraid nothing is going to change in your situation (or mine).


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

> flipflops
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Holland
> ...


That rarely do sexless marriages change for the better. Is your partner doing anything to change the situation, are they being proactive at all?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Thanks for explaining what you meant. I got up too early. I should have coffee before I read posts.
> 
> He hasn't done a darn thing until after we sat down and discussed the separation. He initiated sex once and is hinting that he wants a BJ. And, he's been coming to me for hugs and kisses. And, honestly, I have trouble accepting them. It confuses me. How can all of that time go by (I'm talking at least 10 years) and now that I've made plans to leave, he wants me in that way?


It's normal... my wife did the same. When I said I was leaving, we compromised on once a week (enough for me). But it only lasted for one week or two, then slowly reverted back to the usual... :smthumbup: I've given up on it. Well, it's up to me and I've decided to put up with it until the kids fly the nest...


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## wifeiam (Apr 1, 2013)

wifeiam said:


> I've been talking with them for a while now about my wife and today one of them gave me a "book-on-tape" (mp3) that goes into detail about insulin response and carbs. He used it to lose much of his weight ... and bring his BP from 160/100 to normal in the last 6 months. I don't think she would read a book on it but she might listen to this. If she does and I know her well enough, she will try implementing some changes. She is adverse to exercise but I think she could buy into this. It's just one idea. I'll throw anything at the problem to see if it sticks.


Sorry to hear of the trouble there. I relate as I am at 0 and at least a big part due to weight issues (both of us). Would you share the name of that book please? I think getting it on tape is a GREAT idea![/QUOTE]

I am changing my answer to 1 It was nice but more convinced then ever we have to lose weight to fire up this part of our lives.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

flipflops said:


> I'd be thrilled with once a week! How long until your kids fly the nest?
> 
> I also wonder if some of his actions are age related. He'll be 50 later this year and I know it's bugging him.


ah, ah, lol, flipflops, I'd be thrilled too! It's once a month now, and only because she knows I want it and go mad without it. As I said in another thread, she would be happy with once every six months.

Unfortunately, my youngest is 12, so I reckon I have another 10 years of this and I will be 50 soon (my sex drive hasn't diminished at all). That really sucks, big time!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Once a month would be a drastic improvement for me. I wonder if I'd get more if I give into his BJ hints. He hasn't hinted in that in so many years I couldn't even tell you how long it's been.
> 
> Our youngest is 10 and there is no way I can wait that long to get my life back. One of the kids has already left. I just hope the separation actually brings us back together. *sigh*


yes, once a month is better than most people here. But it bugs me that my wife does it for me. To be honest, I'd rather be without. I'm fed up with the whole thing. In fact, I sleep mostly in my office, since our teenager son makes too much noise in the bedroom next door. It's a good excuse...  And yes, 10 years is a long time. I'll see how it goes. It might be before that.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

1 in 2013 & probably it for awhile. After a few years of boring obligatory sex, I let my wife off the hook early January & she hasn't hinted at it one time since. I don't miss it though, it has been so long since it was fulfilling, it's been easier emotionally to go without.
My wife is 44 & seemed to get worse after 40, so much for the memo.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> it's been easier emotionally to go without.


woundedwarrior, I totally agree with this. It's far easier. Pretty sad, but the emotional involvement is very draining on the long run. There is a limit to what we can take.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I would happily go without it too. The thing is, when I sleep in my office, my youngest daughter sleeps in our bed and I don't want to encourage this behaviour in a girl who is 12 and has her own bedroom! So, after a while, I feel obliged to return. And then my wife sets a date for sex! Because she thinks I want it. Yes, I do want it, but not in these circumstances. I could say no, that I don't want it anymore, but I hate conflicts now, after years of arguing about sex and I don't want to hurt my wife either (yes, that probably sounds silly, but I care about my wife and she has issues)... so, I do have sex occasionally...


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

flipflops said:


> You let her off the hook? As in she no longer needs to do the obligatory sex? I know what you mean about it being easier emotionally to go without.


After 2 solid years of this & trying to change things by myself, including spending more time together, she volunteers to babysit our grand daughter most nights and weekends, I decided to unload my emotional trauma and call it quits & accept things as they are.
After one last time in early January, I told her she can be done, no more guilt, pleading, badgering etc from me, I told her since she was only doing it out of obligation, thats not the right reason anyway so be it. Before then, we averaged every 40 days or so, no foreplay, just the basics.
This does still sting, as it would with a husband who loves their wife but it doesn't feel like rejection anymore since I feel like I have a hand in it too.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> I would happily go without it too. The thing is, when I sleep in my office, my youngest daughter sleeps in our bed and I don't want to encourage this behaviour in a girl who is 12 and has her own bedroom! So, after a while, I feel obliged to return. And then my wife sets a date for sex! Because she thinks I want it. Yes, I do want it, but not in these circumstances. I could say no, that I don't want it anymore, but I hate conflicts now, after years of arguing about sex and I don't want to hurt my wife either (yes, that probably sounds silly, but I care about my wife and she has issues)... so, I do have sex occasionally...


We still sleep in the same bed, kiss each other goodnight, I still give back massages & sometimes she will give me one as well, just no sex. If we had to resort to sleeping apart, I couldn't stay. Sex with your spouse is something you should want and be willing to find the time for it, in anxiousness and not a "to do" list.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> We still sleep in the same bed, kiss each other goodnight, I still give back massages & sometimes she will give me one as well, just no sex. If we had to resort to sleeping apart, I couldn't stay. Sex with your spouse is something you should want and be willing to find the time for it, in anxiousness and not a "to do" list.


I couldn't do that. It's not a marriage anymore. I think the difference is that you still love your wife. My love is rapidly vanishing, to the point that I don't care where I am. I still care a lot about her (after all these years), but the feeling of rejection is so overwhelming that I stopped caring too much as a defence mechanism. I had to do that. You might end up in the same place, if you are not careful.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

That is sad & in time that may happen & if so it would be time to go. Love between us is the only thing that keeps me here. She does claim to still love me but I think the definition has changed over the years??


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> This is EXACTLY how I feel!


Ditto


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

Still at zero. 2years now. Yes I keep track. I am craving the human contact as others have said that is the hardest part. My double AA batteries have gotten quite a workout. But I need him to want me. We are working on that. Maybe. 

When I read all the other stories it makes me feel sad that we pick the one we think is gonna be great and then its not. And then we try and try and still its yucky. But I at least keep trying. Slap me very dependent here.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

Awesome. Found out that she sometimes takes care of matters on her own a couple times a month. THATS emasculating...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> She does claim to still love me but I think the definition has changed over the years??


She claims the same, but some time ago she told me that her love for me has changed... it's not the same as the first years. I think she meant it's different, still, I was shocked...


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Mine claims her feelings are just as strong as the beginning. She looks at sex is just one activity out of many & not as the glue to an emotional connection.
I guess my difference is I'm still happy being with her & I've convinced myself that it isn't personal so I don't feel rejection. My drive is lowering as well which sadly is a plus.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Well I took the advice of someone in this forum (sorry forgot who) and when hubby got back in town just welcomed him home with big smile and fav meal but he's too tired to eat (its 9:30).. all he wants is shower and his own bed! Was hoping he would ask me to join him but no so I give him his space. But I go shower in spare bath, beat him out so I lay my head on his chest he pulls me close. Says a few mumbled words and is sleep in 2 minutes. Arrghh! 

So I toss and turn I want him so bad that I'm hot all over (I'm usually cold).. so finally after about 4 hours of this I fall asleep. Then I awakened by his hand under my nightie and a whisper in my ear : "Baby..." ahhhh.


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## stevehowefan (Apr 3, 2013)

woundedwarrior said:


> Mine claims her feelings are just as strong as the beginning. She looks at sex is just one activity out of many & not as the glue to an emotional connection.
> I guess my difference is I'm still happy being with her & I've convinced myself that it isn't personal so I don't feel rejection. My drive is lowering as well which sadly is a plus.


Your posts in this thread remind me of my situation, exactly. My wife looked at it as she had to do it to make me happy. Well, I wasn't happy because she didn't want to have sex. I mean, sex is easy. It's the emotional connection and the desire to be wanted that drives our trains. We only have fallings out about the lack of intimacy. We have beaten the proverbial dead horse for seven years. We've just about become convinced that her lack of desire is a result of birth control.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

My SO is having some girlfriends over tonight, and I am heading out with her three year old nephew. She asked me if I could pick up some wine on my way home from work, and she said she'd make it worth my while  I said oooh yeah... then asked her if she felt like a certain type that I know happens to be her favorite. 

She sent me the following text "Yes I do  You never fail to impress me with how much attention you pay to what I like. I Love you my baby <3"

That my friends is why I have such a fantastic sex life.


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## russ101 (Jan 8, 2010)

My count for the year? 1 (about a month ago). I am in a situation however where a combination of things have happened. Wife is resentful of our life, (still in our starter home, I only make about $55,000 per year, etc, too many to go over), her libido has dropped sharply over the last 3 years and she no longer desires sex at all as she approaches 50 years old, she has gained about 30 pounds over the last few years. 
The quality also over the last several years has dropped to just chore sex. You could tell she could care less that we were doing it, and in fact, it seemed like she had an aversion to it. She would just lay there and wait until it was over. I'm just not into that anymore, and after the last time I told her if you don't want to do this anymore, I'm not going to ask you. I would rather just take care of it myself. 

She is just fine with not having sex anymore. Now I'm the one with the growing resentment issues. We are now really just roomates. I'm really just waiting until my youngest (now 12) graduates, then decide what I want. The funny thing is, we really get along in every other aspect, and she feels that this should not be a problem because it is not one for her. 

I havn"t cheated as of yet, but if something came along, I must admit I would probably cheat. Would probably be too weak to resist.


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## stevehowefan (Apr 3, 2013)

russ101 said:


> My count for the year? 1 (about a month ago). I am in a situation however where a combination of things have happened. Wife is resentful of our life, (still in our starter home, I only make about $55,000 per year, etc, too many to go over), her libido has dropped sharply over the last 3 years and she no longer desires sex at all as she approaches 50 years old, she has gained about 30 pounds over the last few years.
> The quality also over the last several years has dropped to just chore sex. You could tell she could care less that we were doing it, and in fact, it seemed like she had an aversion to it. She would just lay there and wait until it was over. I'm just not into that anymore, and after the last time I told her if you don't want to do this anymore, I'm not going to ask you. I would rather just take care of it myself.
> 
> She is just fine with not having sex anymore. Now I'm the one with the growing resentment issues. We are now really just roomates. I'm really just waiting until my youngest (now 12) graduates, then decide what I want. The funny thing is, we really get along in every other aspect, and she feels that this should not be a problem because it is not one for her.
> ...


Don't do it, bro. I know it's hard. I can't completely empathize because at least my wife tries. She views it as a chore too, something she just checks off at the end of the day. I've stopped complaining and bringing it up after the last blowup I had. I was ready to walk out the door. I wasn't talking about divorce, just talking about leaving that moment. I was tired of it. She realized the magnitude of it, eventually. At that moment, though, she couldn't care less. She showed no emotion as I laid into her about her seven year lack of affection. Just hang in there, and divorce before you cheat. I'm sorry you're there, bro.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Does it make me a freak that I'm the wife who gets none from her husband? There are so many more men that complain about a sexless marriage.


NO WAY flipflops and please do not ever think that about yourself, not ever. You are a normal woman with a healthy libido don't do what so many of us do and turn this around to blame ourselves.

I am in a hurry and juts passing through but if you want to ever chat via PM feel free to. I ended my sexless marriage 3 years ago, it was his doing to make it sexless and in turn it became loveless. I went through all sorts of crap during the time and then afterwards eventually I went to IC to deal with the fall out of a sexless marriage.

Short version I am now re partnered and we are extremely compatible and have a great love for each other. I have an amicable situation with my ex and we have remained friends and co parent together.

Towards the end of my marriage (was an almost 20 year LTR) we were having sex maybe once a year or twice honestly it is all a blur now and I really don't know what the actual number was.

My current partner and I are both HD and discussed all this very early on in our relationship, he loves me, is attracted to me and desires me as I do him. 

No you are not a freak and you are sadly among a very large group of women, despite what some men say it is fairly common that the woman is the rejected. It is a different for a woman that is rejected than a man and it is often a hidden problem in society.

Take care


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

Flip flops. Love that by the way

You sweetie can come to my clubhouse. Hubby and I been together 31 years. I can tell you how many and where we were living. Yes at times I wanted to say what's wrong with me. He kept saying its not you it's me. And then we keep going on with life. 

You need to decide what your breaking point is. Mine was a month ago. We are still talking kinda. Not the place for this convo.

Keep your chin up.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> Well I took the advice of someone in this forum (sorry forgot who) and when hubby got back in town just welcomed him home with big smile and fav meal but he's too tired to eat (its 9:30).. all he wants is shower and his own bed! Was hoping he would ask me to join him but no so I give him his space. But I go shower in spare bath, beat him out so I lay my head on his chest he pulls me close. Says a few mumbled words and is sleep in 2 minutes. Arrghh!
> 
> So I toss and turn I want him so bad that I'm hot all over (I'm usually cold).. so finally after about 4 hours of this I fall asleep. Then I awakened by his hand under my nightie and a whisper in my ear : "Baby..." ahhhh.


Told ya!!

That's more action than I'll have for the next ... year, lol


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> I've been with H 23 years, married 19. I reached my breaking point a couple of months ago and plan on moving out at the end of the school year. I really want to stay married and be a happy and healthy couple. I just hope out time apart makes that happen.


Hopefully it is a wake-up call. Otherwise, it was meant to be.


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## Thoreau (Nov 12, 2012)

No o's. Still at 0.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Told ya!!
> 
> That's more action than I'll have for the next ... year, lol


So it was you JSGW!

Gee, I'm sorry about the way things are going for you, you seem like such a great guy. 

But, for your advice

:allhail:


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

We've missed one day that I know of this year because we were both fasting. Married five years. Two a day maybe once a week now because we are both on diets so it has fallen off just a little. 

We are really in love with each other. Seeing each other as parents has deepened our love. We love our kids so much too.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> My SO is having some girlfriends over tonight, and I am heading out with her three year old nephew. She asked me if I could pick up some wine on my way home from work, and she said she'd make it worth my while  I said oooh yeah... then asked her if she felt like a certain type that I know happens to be her favorite.
> 
> She sent me the following text "Yes I do  You never fail to impress me with how much attention you pay to what I like. I Love you my baby <3"
> 
> That my friends is why I have such a fantastic sex life.


That and you have a wife who has a sex drive. You know for a good part of my marriage, I was the most attentive affectionate guy with my wife. I felt I knew everything about her. It reminds me ... for a number of years, my wife's church would hold a valentines day party and one of the games was to answer questions about your spouse and see if the other spouse had the same answer ... I don't think we ever lost that game. It seemed ridiculous how well we knew each other. That translated into a happy wife but it didn't translate into more sex. She doesn't care about it; our marriage is essentially sexless and she doesn't bring it up, she doesn't masturbate, nothing. She has never asked why we don't have more sex. For most of the good years, I initiated most of the time and got rejected most of the time. Having sex is a means to an end for her; it is about getting affection and attention. If she already has the attention and affection, she doesn't care about the sex.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Exactly JSGW. You can be the best partner in the world but if you are with a LD spouse then no amount of picking up wine or babysitting nephews is going to change anything.

It is easy to have a great sex life if both partners are into it. It is almost impossible to have even an adequate sex life if one partner is LD.


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## QuestioningMyMarriage (Apr 3, 2013)

flipflops said:


> Does it make me a freak that I'm the wife who gets none from her husband? There are so many more men that complain about a sexless marriage.


I kind of feel like this, too. I have always had healthy self-esteem but if I think about it, over the years this has eroded my confidence. Aren't men _supposed_ to be all over their wives? Isn't that what we're told by society (movies, books, etc.)? 

I've heard women say they had to push their husbands away because they were being repeatedly pestered for sex. I wish!


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I also believe its more drive than action. I'm a hopeless romantic that does everything for my wife to make her happy & I know another couple who mostly fight & complain about each other & have a torrid sex life. Some can have sex & not even like each other, I never got that??


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Tesrtoterone suppliments are a good thing...back to once a day!!!!!! YES the big guy is back!!!! We are at 70.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

Flip flops. Yay new mattress. Just grab the bull by the horns and try. I know I get my hand slapped but do try.

Mine forever. Supplements? Can you tell me more? Can I give them to hubby without him knowing? He won't even take aspirin. Thanks


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

It is an over the counter supplement. We worked with a doctor to find out his levels first ... he is borderline low. I will get you the name...but I wouldn't give it to him without him knowing or talking to a Dr. There are other aphrodisiac's that you could try that are very affective though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Hope it's a scorcher! New mattress, new beginning, I'm hoping for you.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

flipflops said:


> OK, so we're getting the new mattress set tonight instead of over the weekend. Yesterday while talking, the three times last year came up. Before he left he told me he'd have the count up to 4 by the end of the weekend. Considering we're at 1 this year, this should be interesting.


Four! Four! Four! Four!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> I also believe its more drive than action.


Yeah, and from the people around me I see it has a lot to do with genetics. My brother is the same (HD) as me. My college room-mate and his brother are the same (LD). I feel bad for their wives, because I know them both really well from college and they're sisters, both HD.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Well my HD a$$ is sitting at home alone again with the dog while my wife and kids are out god knows where. So, my dilemna for tonight ... masturbate or do laundry ... hmmm. Won't be adding to my grand total of 1 tonight. Yeah, I know ... pathetic; god I hate Fridays. Man, I miss those days when Friday night was the best night of the week ... a night when anything could happen.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Not happening...




Sorry, I was pulling for ya'


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Weren't you invited? It was something I looked forward to as well, fun times with my wife. Now I'm 3rd wheel to her & our 2 year old grand daughter. How did this happen???


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Flip flops- what happened? We were looking forward to one of us having sex this weekend??


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Do laundry while you masturbate, but don't do your wife's laundry.


Ha! Good idea ... and no way am I doing my wife's laundry. I wouldn't even know where to start from the piles of dirty clothes that cover the floor of her room from corner to corner ... one of the many reasons we keep separate rooms. I just close her door and pretend I don't see it, lol.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ha! Good idea ... and no way am I doing my wife's laundry. I wouldn't even know where to start from the piles of dirty clothes that cover the floor of her room from corner to corner ... one of the many reasons we keep separate rooms. I just close her door and pretend I don't see it, lol.


Yeah, it's one of those nights I'm letting her get to me. Gotta snap out of it; do something productive, I guess.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> OK maybe it will happen, but I'm pretty sure we won't hit 4. Now that most of the new bed is all set up he's all like "look what I did".


Go for it flipflops ... don't be shy and don't hold back!

I would say I'm living vicariously through you ... but he's a guy ... and that's kind of weird, lol.


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## 1971 (Mar 7, 2013)

flipflops said:


> OK maybe it will happen, but I'm pretty sure we won't hit 4. Now that most of the new bed is all set up he's all like "look what I did".



Well don't think your the only female missing out, I put a sheer number on last night and showed him but he was more interested in watching football on TV.

I won't be trying tonight


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> OK maybe it will happen, but I'm pretty sure we won't hit 4. Now that most of the new bed is all set up he's all like "look what I did".


I think the bed is being tested


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Not happening for me either...


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Let him know how proud you are, and how manly he is for setting up that bed! ...even it is wasn't all that hard and you could have done it faster


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

flipflops said:


> I just don't get it. I've done that before and been shot down, too.


Try with me next time!


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## 1971 (Mar 7, 2013)

flipflops said:


> I just don't get it. I've done that before and been shot down, too.



I'm very much over it.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> I give up!


Don't give up!

Last night kids got in the way and then YOU fell asleep. Just lock the door and take him. No excuses.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

*flipflops *just throwing this into the discussion for the sake of it. You wanted him, life got in the way and then you fell asleep. OK you were tired but stop and think whether you did this as a defense mechanism to avoid being in the position of being rejected. It happens.

Be careful because a vicious cycle of rejection of each other can easily be set up without the couple even being conscious of it.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I agree, there are a lot of nights I'll go to bed & asleep first, but rejection is only going to flow in one direction regardless. Most nights we go to bed together & she's asleep in 5 minutes or less, I can barely squeeze in a goodnight kiss, much less anything else.


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## Mark Ford (Apr 7, 2013)

No sex since 2010.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Does your wife love you, are you intimate in any other ways, spend time together etc or just room mates???


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## Mark Ford (Apr 7, 2013)

Are you responding to me Wounded Warrior or to someone else? If to me, my wife and I don't do anything together unless we do what she wants which is zone out in front of the TV.

That way, she can forget that I exist and live other people's lives. We watch countless people experince love, cuddle, carress, kiss and have sex and yet she never has the slightest thought to ever want to do the same with her husband who is in the same room.

Of course, she sits across the room from me even though there is a reclinder right next to me. If I want to do something else together however, she vanishes from the room in a matter of minutes and stays gone for the entire evening.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Mark Ford- how can you even stay in that kind of relationship? If my wife appeared that repulsive toward me I couldn't live that way, sexless is bad enough.
Flip flops- sorry things didn't work out liked you had hoped for


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## Mark Ford (Apr 7, 2013)

It is quite hard Wounded Warrior. It has led me down a very bad path of extreme depression. My wife doesn't care at all. However, I do not believe in divorce unless there she has had an affair and I have no proof that she has even though I have suspected it.

So I'm stuck with an uncaring wife. I don't know what to do honestly. I'm just so depressed and alone.


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## Mark Ford (Apr 7, 2013)

I do not believe in Psychiatry because it is based off of Psychology which is the study of the mind/behavior rather than the study of the creator. Psychology also was created by a Marxist who didn't believe in God.

I do believe in God and while I am against getting advice from generally godless people or those who don't believe in God, I have read COUNTLESS books on marriage and relationships and have practiced most everything I have read.

For instance, the book 1,001 ways to show your wife you love her. I used this book and did most all of the things listed therein. I would check off the ones as I did them. However, the thing was, I had already done the majority of them for her.

I have tried everything and have tried to appeal to her in a loving and gentle way time and time again. I have also suggested going to see a Pastor for counseling, but she has refused. She wants to do what she wants to while having everyone around her see her as the good little girl and if anyone finds out that she has done things in the past, much less what she is doing to me, that would be very damaging to her in her mind and she WON'T allow that to happen.

She sees herself as WAY too important and too WONDERFUL for that to happen. Image is everything to her and she LOVES the attention of others more than doing the right thing.

P.S. Sorry if I came down too hard on Psychiatry that is if you believe in it. It is just that everyone prescribes to Psychology today without ever questioning it. It is the state approved "religion" today in that it teaches us what is "proper" and appropriate and "right" behavior for those in society which is what every religion does and those who don't "fit" to what it deems appropriate is hospitalized and/or jailed/imprisoned just as has been done for millenia in sactioned religions.

It poses however as something greater than religion when in reality, it is nothing more than a false religion.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Mark Ford- I don't believe in divorce either, but in reality you aren't married anymore. I don't feel that I am either but she shows me just enough "love" to keep me around, even though emotionally I'm gone from the relationship. I've been hurt too much. I left twice, for only a few weeks each time but realized I'm giving up more by leaving than staying.

Flipflops- I can't recall what your game plan was with leaving when school is out? Just a summer retreat somewhere??


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

After what you've been through, you'll be happier.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Sad thing is once a total separation occurs, reconciliation is a lot less likely. You both adapt to being apart.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Mark Ford said:


> I do not believe in Psychiatry because it is based off of Psychology which is the study of the mind/behavior rather than the study of the creator. Psychology also was created by a Marxist who didn't believe in God.


Rubbish. Psychology extends as far back as human history with an abundance of material in Ancient Greece, Egypt, India, China, etc. 

You may be referring to Wilhelm Wundt, who did argue for the separation of Psychology into its own field. Generally before then it was part of Philosophy.

But you don't reject the rocket science of Hitler's German geniuses because they were Nazis or Eienstein's theory of relativity because he was a Jew. Moreover the science has has had 150 years of development in peer reviewed literature since Wundt, with people from just about every religion on earth participating. And if God made man then you are studying what God made.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> Sad thing is once a total separation occurs, reconciliation is a lot less likely. You both adapt to being apart.


True. I separated. We reconciled. Something was lost.


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

Oh Flip Flops. I have been away from the computer for the weekend. I was so looking forward for your number to rise. With the new bed and all. Well we were in a hotel for two night and nothing. So I'm still at zero. Yay go me. NOT. 

But the weekend is not over yet. Got 5 more hours. I think you need to get those kids to a sitter. I do believe it would have happened without the interruptions. Keep trying. I'm right there with you. Whose goona go first. Tag your it.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

Mark Ford said:


> I have tried everything and have tried to appeal to her in a loving and gentle way time and time again. I have also suggested going to see a Pastor for counseling, but she has refused. She wants to do what she wants to while having everyone around her see her as the good little girl and if anyone finds out that she has done things in the past, much less what she is doing to me, that would be very damaging to her in her mind and she WON'T allow that to happen.
> 
> She sees herself as WAY too important and too WONDERFUL for that to happen. Image is everything to her and she LOVES the attention of others more than doing the right thing.


Mark,
I've known several women who fit the above description, including my ex-wife. To a one, things won't change/you can't change her, in part because they know they have a position of power over you in the relationship. Once they've seen you in a certain way for a while, it's all but impossible for them to see you differently in the future if you stay in the current relationship.

I hate to say it, but your options are "should I stay or should I go?" Every other 'option' presented will not change things. It's your life, and the clock is ticking on your time in this existence. I wish you luck in resolving your internal struggles and hope you can hold your head high regarding the choices you make.


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## Mark Ford (Apr 7, 2013)

Wiseforit, just because I don't prescribe to your beliefs does not make my point or beliefs "rubbish." I believe in studying the creator (God) rather than the creation (man and his behaviors). 

Simple as that. So instead of having to figure out what is "normal" and not "normal" for society or right or wrong through Psychology, the Bible already has all of those things laid out. Secondly, Psychology even borrows from the Bible a little as well as other religions and their holy books.

Pshychology used as instutionalized (probably spelled wrong) was started with Karl Marx in preperation for Communism and the brain washing that went along with it. You can't brain wash the masses if you don't know how they think/react and respond to certain stimuli.

That is the main purpose of Psychology is to control outcomes. From the basic behavior of people even to frame debates in a certain light or push a certain agenda. It is nothing but another cultic religion using brain washing and mind control.

But this is my beliefs of which I hold to be true Wiseforit. If you don't agree, that is fine but to think that my beliefs are "rubbish" is thinking that somehow, through Psychology, you've arrived at ALL TRUTH.


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## Mark Ford (Apr 7, 2013)

Wounded Warrior, we are seemingly in or near the same boat. I've felt like my marriage was over in a real sense for some time now. I feel so dead inside. The whole situation is some joke to her really. It is as if she mocks me each and every day.

As for going to counseling with a Pastor, she has as I stated refushed to go. I even suggested going to a Pastor WAY out of town but she still refused. I have read countless books on marriage by Christians as well as read and compiled every scripture in the Bible referencing love and marriage.

I have tried to share with her all of the best things I found within the books and verses but she ignores them. His Needs, Her Needs is one of the best books outside of the Bible that I have found. But to no avail.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I feel your boat is far worse than mine, Mark & I don't think God or anyone else would hold it against you for leaving. What your wife is doing is abuse & she appears to have left the marriage a long time ago. You deserve happiness & a priest once told me that if you feel you've done everything in your power to save a marriage, then are not expected to martyr yourself. I felt badly after my 1st divorce, when my ex cheated. I paid for an annulment just to ease my guilt.
All we can do is try?


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## Mark Ford (Apr 7, 2013)

It is true Wounded Warrior that I've done everything I know to do. I've written her hundreds and hundreds of letters, given her countless flowers, presents, etc. I've taken her on literally hundreds of day trips that I secretly planned before hand such as ALL the covered bridges in our state and adjacent states (she LOVES covered bridges) and water falls, and all types of things in between.

For years, we went somewhere every weekend. I remember even taking her to the tallest mountain in Alabama when it was -2 degrees. We never let anything stop us and I always planned the trip. I've taken on her numerous vacations staying a week or longer and have given her everything she has ever asked for. 

I used to keep a private list of ALL the things she saw or told me she wanted. I would consecutively go down that list and get her each and everyone as occassions came and went. I have tried all of the tactics, etc. in books to win her heart and nothing has worked. 

If you name something to try, I can guarantee I've already tried it. I have come to believe through the years that a spouse who deliberately withholds from their spouse affection, love and sex is basically in league with a spouse who cheats since they are basically cheating on their spouse through themsevles or their own selfish interests.

I can't as stated before prove she has cheated on me, but I know for certain she has betrayed me and lied to me and deliberately withheld from me even though I have pleaded, begged and implored her not to. 

I know that if I were in a wreck today and died, she would have no regrets and would be with another man very soon after my death. 

Either way, thanks for you advice Wounded Warrior and I will pray for you and your marriage and I hope that you do the same for me and my sanity. May God bless you.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I have & will pray for you too


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> So H decides he'll make things up to me with a "nooner" (I'm more of a morning, daytime sex kind of girl, not that I mind it a night). It didn't happen, either. Why does he keep doing that to me? I get the Friday night thing when it wasn't his fault that things didn't go as planned. Dog, kids, me falling asleep in an instant. There was absolutely nothing to stop him while the kids were at school. When he left a little while ago I said "thank you for the nooner, it was great" he says "oh man, that's right". This is why it's SO much easier to avoid it all together.


Hmmm ... very unlikely that he "forgot". Sounds like he was placating you. I'm sorry. That's a tough one because you could have made it a priority to make sure he lived up to it ... but at the same time, part of it is being desired. 

That is the thing for me ... I gave up long ago because of the rejection. I wish it was a two-way deal all along. Hard enough getting rejected but when she never initiated on her own ...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I am on year 23 of my marriage and I'm still here...  We've been together 28 years. Maybe when we reach 30 years, I'll pack my bags. We too have countless occasions to have sex when she is off work and the children are at school (I work from home), but it never happens. She watches TV and then I have to wait 4 weeks and we can only have sex at 1 o'clock in the morning, when she's played her game on her iPad for 2 hours... I'm sooooooooo fed up with it! It's joke!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

It's so frustrating that I can't be bothered anymore. And I can't say anything, otherwise she feels under pressure and it makes it even worse. I did put her under pressure in the past, getting angry at every excuse, but hey, after waiting 2 weeks, who wouldn't? I wasn't asking to have sex every day! Massive lack of communication on her behalf. I've tried everything, but apart from knowing that she has OCD and that she takes ADs for it, I don't really know the reason. MC has failed. She won't go to therapy to sort herself out. Why am I staying? Ah, yes, the kids...


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

I have been following this thread. As during my 30 year marriage, anything more than twice a week would of been a miracle, and twice a week meant that maybe once a month she would be truly interested. So for the month of March I kept track. The total was 16 with my gf of 11 months. Not bad when you realize we do not live together, and probably didn't see each other 15 days that month. Few months ago I posted a tongue in cheek thread suggesting that the best thing a person could do for sex in marriage was to get divorced, it was promptly deleted. Maybe it was not such a joke after all.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

flipflops said:


> For the kids...the same reason I was sticking around. But, there is far too much tension and the kids realize that there are problems.
> 
> Seriously considering a 180 starting right now. That way I can focus on me right now. If he wants me, he can come and get me. *sigh*


we don't have tension anymore, mainly because I've given up. I don't think the kids know anything... maybe it's not a perfect marriage, but it's not abusive, we don't argue, we don't fight, we just get on. And then I sleep in my office when I can. My teenager's son room is next door to us and he makes a lot of noise at night. It's a good excuse to retreat... now, I'll be waiting for people saying that the kids know everything... ok, but my marriage is not that bad and I'm sure they are better off with me around, since my wife works shifts.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

flipflops said:


> I wish there wasn't tension, but there is. H can't remember anything I say and can't make a decision to save his life, and that frustrates me to no end. We argue a lot. H is just happy to sit back and not say a thing and let me get mad. I'm pretty sure he'd be happier with me not around. He would never say it or suggest it.
> 
> UGH! I didn't mean to start the day out in a grumpy butt mood. Maybe I should go back to bed and try again.


I can't argue with my wife. She takes it incredibly personally and then she gives me the silent treatment for days. There is no point in arguing. We haven't argued for months. To be honest, right now, I feel like I've wasted the last 15 years of my life. There is hope if you can fix things. But I can't fix it, because what's broken has no desire to fix itself.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> we don't have tension anymore, mainly because I've given up. I don't think the kids know anything... maybe it's not a perfect marriage, but it's not abusive, we don't argue, we don't fight, we just get on. And then I sleep in my office when I can. My teenager's son room is next door to us and he makes a lot of noise at night. It's a good excuse to retreat... now, I'll be waiting for people saying that the kids know everything... ok, but my marriage is not that bad and I'm sure they are better off with me around, since my wife works shifts.


Yeah, I'm right there ... very little tension because most times I've just given up. We get along as friends ... a friend for whom I pay all the bills and she makes dinner every once in a while.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I wish we could fight, I get "tuned out" if it is something she isn't comfortable discussing. Our talks are me talking & her listening but rarely responding with anything more than "I don't know"??
I'm the one you gives silent treatments.


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## Mark Ford (Apr 7, 2013)

Wounded Warrior, this is the same thing my wife does. If I try to talk to her, she lies down on the couch, closes her eyes and "pretends" to be listening. As soon as I'm through talking to her and appealing for her to change, the conversation is over or should I say one way conversation.

She feels no need to change and thinks what she is doing to me is okay.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Mark Ford said:


> Wounded Warrior, this is the same thing my wife does. If I try to talk to her, she lies down on the couch, closes her eyes and "pretends" to be listening. As soon as I'm through talking to her and appealing for her to change, the conversation is over or should I say one way conversation.
> 
> She feels no need to change and thinks what she is doing to me is okay.


It really hurts my feelings or really ticks me off, depending on what emotion decides to show up at that moment. The sad thing for me is the last two years that I've spent doing every possible thing I could do to stir things up, have all come back to bite me. I think I've felt worse after every talk and attempt then if I would have refrained to begin with. I haven't mentioned anything this year and things have been fine. I've learned just to keep things to myself and on here, which is an excellent sounding board.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Glad it's going right for someone.


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## Mark Ford (Apr 7, 2013)

I too have just kept it in at times partly out of hurt since I felt that she didn't deserve to know how I felt since she seemed not to care, and secondly just to see if she would try to have any conversation with me or at lesat mention our sex life if I didn't.

I went two whole months like this once and the fact is, she seemed to feel 1000 times better since she didn't have to "deal" with us. I'm truly not sure which way is better Wounded Warrior as in keeping it all in or continuing to appeal to her.

I suppose any recovery of my self-worth would demand that I STOP "spilling" all and realize she is never going to change. Of course going down that path is also basically giving up on the marriage since I know she will not fight for me or us but just let the ship sink...


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I have lost track of my count for the year, but we had sex twice over the last 2 days.


I don't know what my count is for this year but I thought it would be fun to start keeping track in my calendar on my iPhone. So starting on March 10th to now my count is 28 ;-)


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I've kept count, but it isn't as fun when you're on my side of things. My big highlight this year is we surpassed our former record of 76 straight days, it will be 90 tomorrow. Triple digits, here I come!!
I'm happy for you LoriC, what happened on your few missed days, you could have been perfect? lol


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

woundedwarrior said:


> I've kept count, but it isn't as fun when you're on my side of things. My big highlight this year is we surpassed our former record of 76 straight days, it will be 90 tomorrow. Triple digits, here I come!!
> I'm happy for you LoriC, what happened on your few missed days, you could have been perfect? lol


On those few days (yes I remember them) we were so exhausted we literally just passed out cold. Its a lot of work keeping this up! It is the happiest type of tired I have ever known. So I certainly dont mind. My sex drive is off the charts. I will be 44 in a few months and boy am I having some kind of hormonal surge. Im worried Im going to tire the poor man out...


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## Mark Ford (Apr 7, 2013)

My wife and I haven't had sex (coitus) since 2010. As for any otehr sexual interaction, 99% of the time is mutual masturbation as in same room but NO touching. So my last time of doing that with my wife was March 10 and before that, February 2.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mark Ford said:


> My wife and I haven't had sex (coitus) since 2010. As for any otehr sexual interaction, 99% of the time is mutual masturbation as in same room but NO touching. So my last time of doing that with my wife was March 10 and before that, February 2.


How can you have mutual masturbation without touching?


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm curious on that one as well, that sounds bizarre??


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LoriC said:


> I don't know what my count is for this year but I thought it would be fun to start keeping track in my calendar on my iPhone. So starting on March 10th to now my count is 28 ;-)


I have you way beaten ... since March 10th, I'm probably close to 60 or 70. 

Wait a second .... oh, you are talking about sex with another live human being and not just yourself?  My bad. In that case it would be zero ... and it will probably hover around zero for ... oh, I don't know ... the next 10-15 years until I can get out of this crappy marriage ... and since I am already 45, I might as well just castrate myself now and get it over with, lol. Never say never I guess.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I have you way beaten ... since March 10th, I'm probably close to 60 or 70.
> 
> Wait a second .... oh, you are talking about sex with another live human being and not just yourself?  My bad. In that case it would be zero ... and it will probably hover around zero for ... oh, I don't know ... the next 10-15 years until I can get out of this crappy marriage ... and since I am already 45, I might as well just castrate myself now and get it over with, lol. Never say never I guess.


 So sorry to hear this! I used to be there. Decided to change it, thankfully had a willing partner to do so. 

You are only stuck if you decide to be stuck. Change it or end it. I know I know, easier said than done. But honestly it was easier than I thought. I will be 44 in a few months and decided I was not going to live like that anymore! Something had to give.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LoriC said:


> So sorry to hear this! I used to be there. Decided to change it, thankfully had a willing partner to do so.
> 
> You are only stuck if you decide to be stuck. Change it or end it. I know I know, easier said than done. But honestly it was easier than I thought. I will be 44 in a few months and decided I was not going to live like that anymore! Something had to give.


You might not believe how much energy and effort I have put into trying to change this within my marriage, particularly within the last 5 years. I have only now come to the point where I am willing to accept that I have failed ... the point where the effort is no longer worth it.

So, what are my options:

1) I can have an affair. That is off the table. My daughters are too important to me to be that kind of role model. Despite our relationship, my wife doesn't deserve it either. I've had numerous opportunities during my marriage to go there and I'm not going to start now.

2) I can divorce. I have not taken this off the table. I don't hate my wife; she is a good person and we are good friends. It isn't a marriage though. I also know I would be very successful finding relationships if I was divorced; in other words, I'm not a guy with few options. What I'm undecided on at this point is whether to stay for the children. Now, I am not a believer in staying for the children under any circumstance. I have to gauge based on a number of factors, including the example we are setting, if it is healthier for them to stay in the marriage or not. Right now, while I loathe the example we are setting, there are other factors that make it difficult to divorce ... where right now, it likely wouldn't be better for the girls (one of them in particular) for us to divorce. Those may change.

3) I can continue to try. Honestly I have put so much effort into it that sometimes I just give up. Then I find my second wind, come up with new ideas and try again. There are a number of reasons why our marriage is sexless and some of them I can control but some of them I can't. It is a partnership after all. So, I can continue to make the effort but be willing to accept that it may not change. That is a difficult pill to swallow. Intimacy is very important to me. It is difficult to describe to people who have a healthy sex life, how not having a healthy sex life can tear you apart in so many ways. I have worked very hard to try to disassociate the lack of intimacy in my life with my value as a person and as a man.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Unless you are in a sexless marriage like JustSomeGuyWho how on earth do you keep count?

I don't remember when we did it last week let alone 2 weeks to a month ago.

I'm 56 so we have slowed down a little, we tend to go every two days sometimes three but that is not set in stone.

For instance we missed last night but went for it each of the three nights before and I have been informed that tonight is on. Or perhaps should I say required or expected.

My best guess is approx 40 times so far this year.

I have gone through a period of sexlessness in my marriage so know how it feels for the deprived partner.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

I simply put each day's number down on the notepad on my iphone... if I did it twice I put the number down twice.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Ok, WHY would you keep count. What purpose does it serve? I can see why you would in a sexless marriage but why in a normal marriage?


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

Because they asked how many times, and I was curious. Besides I am a year and a half out of a 30 year marriage, where I could of easily kept track in my head, always good to remind myself how much has changed. How her sleeping with my friend actually was a good thing.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Ah yes remember your story now. So glad for you that you have somebody worth loving.


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## softpretzel (Apr 9, 2013)

2 (more like 1 3/4 but that's ok)


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

softpretzel said:


> 2 (more like 1 3/4 but that's ok)


Your avatar is making me hungry


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## softpretzel (Apr 9, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Your avatar is making me hungry


Sorry. I couldn't come up with a username and someone posted one on FB. Problem solved.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

We are 11 and holding; our lat time was February 22. My DW started having abdominal pain which culminated in a hysterectomy. There were complications because of undetected endometrial scarring and she had to be opened up. It has been a difficult recovery. When this is all over, we are going to a B&B and celebrate!


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## Mark Ford (Apr 7, 2013)

Plan 9, I have no idea how often she masturbates honestly. She tells me hardly ever but her words mean little to me since she lies so much. As for the mutual masturbation, she treats that as if it is some privilidge for me to be in the same room while she is masturbating.

I have tried and tried to talk to her via letters, conversation through gentle compelling to anger but none of it gets through to her.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Mark, if she is doing it in the same room as you, she won't let you do it to her instead? She is just being cruel. That is a whole new category for emotional abuse. You need to at least separate for awhile to save yourself.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> Mark, if she is doing it in the same room as you, she won't let you do it to her instead? She is just being cruel. That is a whole new category for emotional abuse. You need to at least separate for awhile to save yourself.


Mark, I agree with woundedwarrior. That is abuse. My wife is truly LD. She NEVER masturbates. She has no interest. Your situation seems quite different. Your wife obviously has a sex drive, she just doesn't want it with you.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

4. AND 5. Had a good date night last night.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

That is awesome!! Go ScubaSteve!!!


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## softpretzel (Apr 9, 2013)

3 (which is the same as last year's total)


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Any possible upcoming changes to that number, softpretzel??


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> That is awesome!! Go ScubaSteve!!!


Thanks, it really surprised me. That's for sure. I was NOT expecting it.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

I would say for me (luckily) it's around 50-60.

If we're including blowjobs...then it's closer to 80


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

A couple to three, who cares


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## Jimbob82 (Jun 29, 2012)

5 times, have actually forgotten what it feels like.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Finally "tested" the new bed...twice. Up to 3 now.


Way to go FlipFlops! Now get to that four you wanted from last week!


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Well. March was an all-time low, and when April is done, when you throw in this 11 day trip he is in the midst of now, April will be even lower. We probably have the lowest count of any both HD couple!


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

flipflops said:


> I think you do or you wouldn't have posted or even clicked on the link.


No, I really don't, but I like to post. I'm working on me now, not us


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

Flip flops. I'm so excited for you. Very jealous here. We had another weekend from hell. Working through issues. He isn't trying hard enough.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Yeah, yeah, yeah ... blah blah blah ... whatever!


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Yeah, yeah, yeah ... blah blah blah ... whatever!


Anyone care to guess where I'm at? I'll give you ONE guess.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

we are at n. 4 now...  we had sex last night. The usual 1 o'clock in the morning job. Five minutes, no BJ (I get it most of the time) and all focussed on her big O... better than nothing!


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Flip flops & in Absentia- Congrats & hoping for some more, really hate starting new streaks.
How sad is it when a married couple on here actually has sex that we have a celebration


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> Flip flops & in Absentia- Congrats & hoping for some more, really hate starting new streaks.
> How sad is it when a married couple on here actually has sex that we have a celebration


well, yes... I was very tired, but I obliged...  It was quite strange, because it had been a month and I had pretty much lost all the desire to have sex by then. It's always rather disappointing, because we have pretty much the same type of sex. A bit of fondling, BJ if I'm lucky and then her on top for a couple of minutes until she comes. It's been like this for a few years now, and don't fancy iy that much anymore.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Anyone care to guess where I'm at? I'll give you ONE guess.


The dog house?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> The dog house?


Ha! I meant in my count. 

Actually no, I am not in the dog house. Our relationship outside of sex is ... ok. Let's put it this way ... there are a lot of people out there, a lot of people I know who have far worse relationships with their spouse ... and far more active sex lives.

Yesterday she had a MAJOR setback on one of her goals and she was VERY upset and disappointed. I left work early, picked up the kids before she got home. We went out and bought her a pick-me-up and then came home and they made cards for her while I made dinner. She came home, saw that and broke down. I think it helped her. We talked it over and she is in a much better place to keep going in her goal. It's going to work out for her.

Those things don't translate into sex or bring us any closer to some of the things she needs to do to help resolve our sexless marriage but I am certainly not in the doghouse.


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## cardifftony (Mar 2, 2013)

nothing for 2 years and 9 months beat that!!!!!


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I don't want to beat that. There is someone on my sexless marriage thread that is at 8.5 years, so you don't have the title yet? I hope I don't start counting years, months are bad enough.
Are you staying indefinitely??


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## cardifftony (Mar 2, 2013)

i think there should be a new chart for people who have gone the longest


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Kind of a sexless Hall of Fame? If you look through some of the posts on my other thread you'll see a lot of years gone without?


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## Mark Ford (Apr 7, 2013)

Cardifftony, I've been without since 2010... at least in regards to sex.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Flip flops- I don't think I could enjoy or look forward to sex if I was positively moving out in a few months? Doesn't that cause emotional conflict?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

By staying and hoping for sex (which he doesn't give you), you are enabling his behaviour. I know there's always hope, but this is the message he's getting. BTW, I'm doing exactly the same, apart from the sex bit, although we have it when it's "due" (albeit not often)... 



flipflops said:


> I see what you're saying but in the end I want the marriage to work, though some days (like today) I think I'm out of my mind! I feel like if he's trying (he has done some of the things he said he would) than I should try, too. One of my huge complaints was lack of sex so if he wants it, shouldn't I do it? Does that even make sense?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

flipflops said:


> I'm not hoping for it anymore. I don't ask for it. I don't go looking for it. I haven't in a long time. OK, I did hope for it when we got the new bed but I'm over it.


The bed... the last straw...


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

For me there still has to be a connection, otherwise it is just another activity like walking, biking etc. I feel that our emotional bond is gone & that is why when I let her "off the hook", she hasn't thought about it since. I'm balancing that fine line between trying to regain it & not allowing myself to be further hurt & it's a challenge. I need a cure & not symptom relief. Long streak, have sex, long streak is too damaging to me. I am still surprised at how fast the sexless days are piling up with not so much as a whisper.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

woundedwarrior said:


> For me there still has to be a connection, otherwise it is just another activity like walking, biking etc. I feel that our emotional bond is gone & that is why when I let her "off the hook", she hasn't thought about it since. I'm balancing that fine line between trying to regain it & not allowing myself to be further hurt & it's a challenge. I need a cure & not symptom relief. Long streak, have sex, long streak is too damaging to me. I am still surprised at how fast the sexless days are piling up with not so much as a whisper.


WW, I'm waiting for the day in which you post that you had it out with the wife and told her you could not be in this marriage that has lost its connection completely anymore and one or two things happen. She throws herself completely into working on it or she shrugs her shoulders and says "ok then, bye". 

Either way I think that is when you can find the true happiness you deserve. You seem like such a good guy and your posts are dripping with sadness. 

After what I have been through in my marriage its so hard for me to see what you are going through because I have been there and the memory is still fresh. 

I have never worked at anything so hard in my life every day!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LoriC said:


> She throws herself completely into working on it or she shrugs her shoulders and says "ok then, bye".


No, she'll cry and he'll stay... remember, he loves her... not really sure why. :scratchhead:


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

flipflops said:


> WW, I know what you're saying about the connection. Sex with H makes me feel more connected to him...until the sexless streak starts back up...along with a lot of other crap. And, I admit I like sex with H. It's fun and he's damn good at it.


For me a major way I stay connected with my H is through sex. When I went through too many sexless years it is why our connection broke. We couldnt have been more detached at that time. Now to make sure that connection doesnt go anywhere we have sex at least 5 times a week. The connection we have now is amazing. I have always felt that way about our connection.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

LoriC said:


> WW, I'm waiting for the day in which you post that you had it out with the wife and told her you could not be in this marriage that has lost its connection completely anymore and one or two things happen. She throws herself completely into working on it or she shrugs her shoulders and says "ok then, bye".
> 
> Either way I think that is when you can find the true happiness you deserve. You seem like such a good guy and your posts are dripping with sadness.
> 
> ...


You're too kind, LoriC. I am sad but I'm not a complete cryng emotional wreck either. I guess I refuse to give up hope is why I am still here. I'm not much of a believer in ultamatims because they conform out of fear and not out of love. Like I had mentioned previously, up until this year, she would have sex with me once every 4-6 weeks pretty regular, but with no passion and a "lets get this over with in a hurry" mentality and that didn't work for me anymore. You can force someone to have sex with you but you can't force them to like it or need it. I'm still hoping that person is still in there in her somewhere??


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> No, she'll cry and he'll stay... remember, he loves her... not really sure why. :scratchhead:


She's only cried one time in the 17 years we've been married or at least that I know about and that was when she lost her mom to cancer 8 years a go, and they were really close.

As far as loving her, the goods still out weigh the bads with being with her. She is kind, thoughtful, supportive, respectful etc in everything but sexual. I believe that she will come around and if not then so be it. I would be throwing away a lot of good and even without sex, it isn't worth it to me. Maybe I'm stupid, but my heart has always been bigger than my head as well as my commitment to not giving up.

Like I said before, if we were strictly room mates, sleeping in separate rooms and leading separate lives then the decision would be different. She still likes to sleep next to me with her touching me and will occasionally even cuddle against me as she sleeps. Some nights I like it and others it depresses me but I still wouldn't change it.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

LoriC said:


> For me a major way I stay connected with my H is through sex. When I went through too many sexless years it is why our connection broke. We couldnt have been more detached at that time. Now to make sure that connection doesnt go anywhere we have sex at least 5 times a week. The connection we have now is amazing. I have always felt that way about our connection.


It is a proven psychological fact that sex brings emotional closeness. There was a therapist I heard on a talk show a while back that wrote a book telling couples that are having sexual issues to commit to one month of having sex every day. Write it on the calendar, make it a priority and don't just go through the motions, even though at first you might do that. They interviewed the couples that did it and they couldn't believe the difference it made. THe more they did it the more they enjoyed it and each other again. I believe this could work but you would have to have a very determined couple. We used to joke about it but she would never commit to it and this was back when we were having a decent sex life.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

woundedwarrior said:


> It is a proven psychological fact that sex brings emotional closeness. There was a therapist I heard on a talk show a while back that wrote a book telling couples that are having sexual issues to commit to one month of having sex every day. Write it on the calendar, make it a priority and don't just go through the motions, even though at first you might do that. They interviewed the couples that did it and they couldn't believe the difference it made. THe more they did it the more they enjoyed it and each other again. I believe this could work but you would have to have a very determined couple. We used to joke about it but she would never commit to it and this was back when we were having a decent sex life.


We actually just did this! After we were done with the 30 days, we just didnt want to give it up daily. There is a day here or there when we dont. I am telling you that this worked like I didnt believe. Our connection has never been this deep before. We have never been happier! I still have to pinch myself that this has happened. 1 year ago we were do detached from one another, had been a year without sex. We were living like roommates.


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> Like I said before, if we were strictly room mates, sleeping in separate rooms and leading separate lives then the decision would be different. She still likes to sleep next to me with her touching me and will occasionally even cuddle against me as she sleeps. Some nights I like it and others it depresses me but I still wouldn't change it.


At this point I'm not sure what would feel worse for me. I can see how cuddling can keep some of the emotional connection. We go to bed and she puts a pillow between us and gets upset when I comment on it. She says it helps her sleep, but it has been there for 14 months (I don't think it is just a coincidence). The only hope I have right now is that our MC started pushing her today to stop the lack of physical affection. I'm actually trying not to be to hopeful because I'll just get crushed like the rest of the times when I think things are going better and see no change from her.

Still hoping I can add one to the count this year.


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Hmmmm, interesting. Is there a link to this? I bet if I told H he'd think I was making it up just to get some.


I've seen the article online somewhere, and it might have been on the that daily TV show "The Doctors" or something similar to that. I'll try searching for it online tonight.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

flipflops said:


> Thank you. I'll try to find it, too.


The Doctors TV Show - Show Synopsis - In Depth: Sex in America


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> I believe that she will come around and if not then so be it.


well, good luck! I hope she will.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

That would get my attention, hope he dwells on it.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

That is awesome, flip flops. What a start to the weekend


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Minus 97 for me & approaching the Unfathomable triple digit day 100 mark. I never would have imagined this?


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

Yay Flip flops. Fortune cookie good thing. Post it on the fridge or the mirror in the bathroom where he will see it every day. Maybe that's what he needed something other than you telling him to step up to the plate. 

Sorry about your basement. That's yucky

I'm still at zero. And he is out of town till Wednesday so....but other issues need fixed. 

We also cuddle at night and play handies while watching tv. When walking somewhere we hold hands. Kissing is something I said he needed to work on. We always say ILY but now I have started saying his name at the end. Anyway not sure where to go from here because I still don't trust him and we have lots of work to do moving forward.
30 years of really not touching each other so very slow process. If we do turn this around it will be a miracle. 

Sorry. Feeling sorry for myself off to yoga I go maybe that will help.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> Minus 97 for me & approaching the Unfathomable triple digit day 100 mark. I never would have imagined this?


Ha! Well, if it is any help ... I've got you beat on that.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> So H was all proud of himself for getting to 4 which beats out last years entire count of 3. And, the past 3 have been in the past two weeks. What's changed? H finally took care of his snoring problem (and bought a new bed to celebrate). It took planning our separation for that to happen. Turns out he has severe sleep apnea and doesn't breathe more than he does breathe when he sleeps. His snoring was so loud that everyone in the house was affected by it, despite closed doors. Now he doesn't make a peep and after nearly 15 years in separate rooms we're sleeping next to each other every night. H also forgot that I usually shower before bed and that I'm wrapped in a towel with "easy access" as he put it. He also realized that I wear nightgowns most nights, unless I'm cold. Like last night...he "jumped" me shortly after I got out of the shower. After we were finished I was freezing so I put on PJ bottoms and a t-shirt. He's just watching me and says "I love when you wear nightgowns and not pants to bed". I just wanted to smack him upside the head and ask him again why he didn't take care of this a decade and a half ago. But, I'm going with the flow and I just hope this is the start of something better.


What did he do to deal with his sleeping problem?

Yeah, I love that whole nightgown, nothing else thing ....


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Nothing else as in nightgown only...no panties?


Yep ... very sexy.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

So was the sleep apnea making him too tired for sex? I'm assuming that is what you are implying.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Had a sleep study done. Uses a c-pap now. No noise from him at all.


So now you can role play. He'll play the part of Darth Vader. It can be an incest fantasy ... you play Princess Leia :smthumbup:


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> No I wasn't implying that at all. In fact he claims he always felt well rested.
> 
> 15 years sleeping in separate beds is a BAD thing for a marriage. As is the resentment that he gets to sleep while the rest of the house (me and the kids) has little sleep. Everyone is sleeping better now and happier.


Yeah, I sleep in a separate bed from my wife. We both have apnea. I have two things going on ... super large tonsils and deviated septum. Hers is weight related. She is on a CPAP. That's not why we sleep in separate beds though. Different sleep schedules and she has a nerve problem caused by her extreme weight that causes her to shake her leg all night long ... like sleeping in an earthquake. It is bad for marriage, for sure. I am glad you got that resolved. I see some major snuggling happening ... followed by sharp increases in that number of yours. I'm happy for you.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> See he was missing that for most of the past 15 years.


He's gonna be thinking ... AWWWW YEAHHH!! ... (followed by) ... What the heck was I thinking all these years?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

I sleep in a different floor of the house from my wife, because I want to


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Flip flops, I couldn't be happier for you!!!!


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Woke up to H touching me. Five now.


Woke up to me touching me, as usual


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Woke up to H touching me. Five now.


I was just thinking ... you just reached my 5 year total. You go girl


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Late arrival here to report our number for the year: 1

When this thread started, I would have had to have said zero, so here's to the bright side.

It seems we may not all be on the same page when it comes to what constitutes sex, so, just to be clear, that "1" comes alongside 0 for HJ and BJ, and maybe just two or three nights in the same bed.

Recently we had, say, a potentionally pivotal talk. It ended well, except I sealed it with a loving kiss. She tolerated only a bit if tongue. I pursued this a bit, and proved to myself and her the problem is no longer "sex drive" but it is more fundamentally she is repulsed by me or otherwise dug in and fighting against any attempt to meet any of my needs. At least that much is clear now. I used to think I was just a horny jerk demanding way more than I deserved.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> Late arrival here to report our number for the year: 1
> 
> When this thread started, I would have had to have said zero, so here's to the bright side.
> 
> ...


Wow ... that is terrible. I'm sorry. I have seen your thread. If she is honestly repulsed by you, it is time to leave, IMO. That is my instinct. Is the repulsion issue something you discussed specifically?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Wow ... that is terrible. I'm sorry. I have seen your thread. If she is honestly repulsed by you, it is time to leave, IMO. That is my instinct. Is the repulsion issue something you discussed specifically?


Yes. I suppose my using the word "repulsed" might not be justified just yet (though it may be accurate). But, clearly, it's not just that she doesn't want "sex", she simply doesn't want me.

The good news is THAT is now out in the open, she acknowledges that there is something that cannot be swept under the rug of peri menopause or a sundry other things.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> Yes. I suppose my using the word "repulsed" might not be justified just yet (though it may be accurate). But, clearly, it's not just that she doesn't want "sex", she simply doesn't want me.
> 
> The good news is THAT is now out in the open, she acknowledges that there is something that cannot be swept under the rug of peri menopause or a sundry other things.


Ok, that is good news ... it's progress and something you can grab hold on and work with. Was she forthcoming in the reasons why she feels that way? Does she understand why she feels that way? 

Btw, if "repulsed" is a word you are using, while I understand why you may feel that way, I would avoid using it simply because it is a very negative word and will not help you.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

JoeHenderson said:


> I understand where you're coming from. My W wants me to spoon her, but I've been doing it less and less because the physical proximity makes me feel so sad.


It's even more sad for me to tell you that J would be ecstatic if my wife expressed desire to be spooned. Honestly, I think she is simply asexual, a-emotional (except for negative emotions - they are readily expressed). May I please make a suggestion and just spoon her. At least that's some contact. Imagine how I feel where even touching is off limits most of the time - the last little while has absolutely sucked. I feel like a rat...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

mdill said:


> Holland, for what it is worth I totally agree. Men, make you wife feel loved and explain that you need sex with her to feel her love. Women, love you husband if you want his love. Sex is just the vehicle to the desire emotional connection both need. If either opts out, the relationship is over.


I don't think it is humanly possible for me to express my love for my wife any more than I have. Don't want to brag, but she is lucky to have a guy like me. It sounds conceited bit it's true. The other truth is that you throw in a bit of childhood trauma and a person is striped of certain emotions most of us take for granted. Well at least that's the case here. Too bad she is light years from ever wanting to fix that problem. I've recently told her that j am at my wits end. That seems to make a little change for about a week then it's back to good ole status quo. Expletive expletive expletive!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

HappyHubby said:


> Surprised nobody has at least asked this question:
> 
> Is it at all possible she's cheating on you? At what point did sex start declining? Most betrayed husbands notice a precipitous drop in sex around the time their wives start fooling around with another man.
> 
> Not trying to create paranoia, just something for you to assess whether its possible or not.


99.9% sure it all has to do with childhood traumatic 'stuff' :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

LoriC said:


> The Doctors TV Show - Show Synopsis - In Depth: Sex in America


Omg! If I took that challenge - the 30 day challenge, wee kne would be no problem. Week 2 would be hard because sex must happen once. The last two week require having 3 years worth if sex in two weeks. Totally and complete fantasy. A more realistic 30 day challenge would be to have sex twice!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

KendalMintcake said:


> The other truth is that you throw in a bit of childhood trauma and a person is striped of certain emotions most of us take for granted. Well at least that's the case here. *Too bad she is light years from ever wanting to fix that problem. *
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is increasingly becoming the deal-breaker for me -- not demonstrating any real interest in looking inside herself, let alone actually doing any work in that regard. (I certainly have.)

That, coupled with the fact that I cannot live like this anymore (I feel like I'm dying, literally), and the kids are seeing me handle this bad situation badly. They don't even know what a partner-to-partner loving relationship is.

I am going to put her and I on a deadline to start showing some real intent and action to fix ourselves and our relationship. And, what happens or not, happens or not.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ok, that is good news ... it's progress and something you can grab hold on and work with. Was she forthcoming in the reasons why she feels that way? Does she understand why she feels that way?


No. And, no. 

She only agrees, when I ask, that it indicates there is something really really wrong, and it has nothing to do with LD/HD.

I have, I guess, agreed to put off discussing this or our issues in general for a couple more weeks as she finishes up two papers and a semester long project for school. (That's why, according to her, she is sleeping on an air-mattress in her in-home office -- working on her papers and projects during the night, and sleeping off and on between spurts of work during the day. Yet, a sentence or two later she will say that if I (H) were to lose weight, maybe I wouldn't snore so much, suggesting that THAT might be why she seldom is in our bed at the same time as me. Well, excess weight can cause snoring, no doubt, but I snored horribly 60 pounds ago; and, I have used my CPAP for nearly a decade without fail, and do not snore.) 

She has no desire to introspect. Or discuss her feelings. Never has, as far as I know over the 20+ years we have been together. (Except for posturing she did about this sort of thing very early in our dating.)





> Btw, if "repulsed" is a word you are using, while I understand why you may feel that way, I would avoid using it simply because it is a very negative word and will not help you.


Good point. It's use has outlived its usefulness (if it had any), which was to slap me in the face with the depth of my despair, so maybe I'd get off my a$$ and do something about it.

Btw, the school thing, in our case, might be another similarity. After years as SAHM, and realizing again she hates her (13 hour a week) job, and for the second time in our 20 years, I have been happy to support her in any way I can to find and achieve a fulfilling career. These days, I feel a bit guilty thinking I might not be able to last the next year while she finishes up this, her second, graduate degree; that she may need to start working full-time to support herself on her own.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

PieceOfSky - Are you sure we aren't married to the same woman?

I know, I'm sitting here thinking that if I wait until she finishes school and is able to tie down a full time job in her new chosen profession, I will have to live through this hell for another 15 months. My other choices are 1) D now and destroy myself financially for the next 7 years, or 2) Legally separate but continue to live under the same roof. That second option doesn't benefit me a whole lot because I just can't see myself pursuing other relationships while we are all living together - much too confusing for my daughters and may do more harm than good. The other thing is that I will still have to pay alimony in a legal separation - and you already know how good she is with money :/

There are some conversations I've held off on having as she was so involved in her student-teaching. Finally I'm able to have them now that she has failed her student-teaching assignment and is done until the fall :/

I'm not buying your wife's excuses and obviously you aren't either. I feel your pain. All I can say is focus on working on yourself - not only will you feel better about yourself and more in control of your future but you will be better prepared for future relationships if you are unable to save your marriage. Stay strong.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> She has no desire to introspect. Or discuss her feelings. Never has, as far as I know over the 20+ years we have been together. (Except for posturing she did about this sort of thing very early in our dating.)


Sounds like the same one-way conversation I've been having


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

So, I'm arranging to go down to North Carolina in July to see my folks and spend a few days at the beach with them. My wife says, "hmmmm, do I have plans for you ..." Ok, this follows a discussion the previous night where I told her it was really p!ssing me off that she won't lift one finger to try to save our marriage. Maybe that's a good sign? ... except we have to wait until July? wtf?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I think I've decided I'm going to be more positive about this whole situation ... so here it goes ...

I'm going home to have sex with myself tonight! Yay!! 

Phew, I feel much better now.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Well, instead of going home and doing what I planned ...

... I came home, had a big fight with my wife and told her I want a divorce. 

Phew, I feel much better now.


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

Home alone. Great big O. Yay


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> That is increasingly becoming the deal-breaker for me -- not demonstrating any real interest in looking inside herself, let alone actually doing any work in that regard. (I certainly have.)


My wife told me bluntly that we were incompatible and that things would never change. She wasn't prepared to go to therapy to fix herself and she would understand if I left. She said she loved me, though.

I stayed for the kids. We have a good relationship apart from sex. I just hope you manage to sort yourself out quickly, because being in limbo is not easy. At least now my situation is clear and the decision to stay was mine. So, I feel empowered and positive, especially because sex is not on top of my list now. But _I_ decided that.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> PieceOfSky - Are you sure we aren't married to the same woman?



Looks like there's 3 of us married to the same woman...


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## TheBigRagu (Apr 23, 2013)

New here. My count: 4

Dec. 31, 2012
Jan. 13, 2013
Feb. 10, 2013
Mar. 12, 2013

I'm 28 and she's 35. We've been married for 6.75 years and have had sex an average of once per month for the past 3 or 4 years. I'm stacking sandbags right now because I think I know where this is headed.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> and the decision to stay was mine.


I've been working on and or starting to see that my staying I'd a choice, and permitting myself to feel, if when the dust settles, it's still this hard then there is no dishonor in leaving.

Seeing I do have a choice, and it is mine to make, is lifting some of this weight off of my chest.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well, instead of going home and doing what I planned ...
> 
> ... I came home, had a big fight with my wife and told her I want a divorce.
> 
> Phew, I feel much better now.


I'm sorry you're having such a difficult home life right now. If you care to share, here or elsewhere, I'm wondering if you did reach a "final" decision, and you both know it now, or if today it's not so clear. (I apologize if I'm being too nosy! At least I resisted my first knee jerk response to your post, wherein I would have jokingly suggested your subconscious manufactured the argument in an attempt to upgrade the sex you had planned with yourself to that most precious of pleasures: make up sex, with oneself. Glad I didn't really go there.  )

Wishing you and your family the best in these times.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> I'm sorry you're having such a difficult home life right now. If you care to share, here or elsewhere, I'm wondering if you did reach a "final" decision, and you both know it now, or if today it's not so clear. (I apologize if I'm being too nosy! At least I resisted my first knee jerk response to your post, wherein I would have jokingly suggested your subconscious manufactured the argument in an attempt to upgrade the sex you had planned with yourself to that most precious of pleasures: make up sex, with oneself. Glad I didn't really go there.  )
> 
> Wishing you and your family the best in these times.


Ha! Make-up sex with myself! That's awesome 

No, my decision is made. She hasn't given me a reason to reconsider. A lot of things to work out so it will not be a quick process and I will be in limbo for awhile.

I think ultimately she values her security more than she values our relationship. She is unwilling to make the effort on our relationship if she does not feel that security is guaranteed. She thought it was guaranteed up until the point that I separated a couple of years ago. The problem is that since she thought it was guaranteed, she didn't see the need to make an effort on our relationship and that ultimately resulted in the failure of our relationship and her losing her sense of security. What she fails to understand is the best way to guarantee her security is to value our relationship more than her security. As a devout Christian, she can place faith in god but she also needs to have faith in herself that if she makes the effort, even though nothing is guaranteed, everything will work out just fine.

I cannot stay married to a person who does not value our relationship enough to make an effort.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

TheBigRagu said:


> New here. My count: 4
> 
> Dec. 31, 2012
> Jan. 13, 2013
> ...


I wonder if she has been mentally maintaining you around the 30 day mark or if there is another reason. Perhaps with respect to her cycles?

The Dec 31 2012 date, was possibly for new years. Did you also have intercourse on or around Christmas? What about months before this if you can recall?


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## TheBigRagu (Apr 23, 2013)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> I wonder if she has been mentally maintaining you around the 30 day mark or if there is another reason. Perhaps with respect to her cycles?
> 
> The Dec 31 2012 date, was possibly for new years. Did you also have intercourse on or around Christmas? What about months before this if you can recall?


Nope, no sex on/around X-mas. Before this, it was probably about the same pattern. Roughly once a month. It's trickled down to once/month for about the last 3 or 4 years or so....maybe longer.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

TheBigRagu said:


> Nope, no sex on/around X-mas. Before this, it was probably about the same pattern. Roughly once a month. It's trickled down to once/month for about the last 3 or 4 years or so....maybe longer.


Once a month is not acceptable for a sexual person. How do you know in your mind that she hasn't checked the date "oh, I haven't had sex with him in a month, better give him some".

If she knew that even once a week was a low rate for sexual people, but it wouldn't kill her to do it - maybe she'd adjust if you let her know.


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## TheBigRagu (Apr 23, 2013)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> Once a month is not acceptable for a sexual person. How do you know in your mind that she hasn't checked the date "oh, I haven't had sex with him in a month, better give him some".
> 
> If she knew that even once a week was a low rate for sexual people, but it wouldn't kill her to do it - maybe she'd adjust if you let her know.


I've had multiple talks with her about it over the years. We recently discussed it in mid January. She said that she agreed we didn't have sex enough. She said we should shoot for at least once per week. "We" shot for once a week, and I kept getting turned down. Being denied sex was too demoralizing, so I'm bracing myself for the inevitable. We're going on 6 weeks of no sex right now. Once this gets up to 3 or 4 months, I'm going to have my bags packed.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

TheBigRagu said:


> I've had multiple talks with her about it over the years. We recently discussed it in mid January. She said that she agreed we didn't have sex enough. She said we should shoot for at least once per week. "We" shot for once a week, and I kept getting turned down. Being denied sex was too demoralizing, so I'm bracing myself for the inevitable. We're going on 6 weeks of no sex right now. Once this gets up to 3 or 4 months, I'm going to have my bags packed.


Clap-clap-clap.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

TheBigRagu said:


> I've had multiple talks with her about it over the years. We recently discussed it in mid January. She said that she agreed we didn't have sex enough. She said we should shoot for at least once per week. "We" shot for once a week, and I kept getting turned down. Being denied sex was too demoralizing, so I'm bracing myself for the inevitable. We're going on 6 weeks of no sex right now. Once this gets up to 3 or 4 months, I'm going to have my bags packed.



IMHO, if you really want her to change, she needs to know that this is your plan. 

Also, I believe if she and you do not work together to figure out what is causing this lack of sex, and figure out how to fix it, and then actually fix it, then you might as well pack your bags now.

I'm sorry -- I didn't catch if she or you are doing anything to get to the bottom of this (I've read too much tonight, my brain is mush). But, you've made it to TAM; what has she done? If the answer is "nothing", and after telling her your plans it is still nothing next week and the week after, that doesn't bode well.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> Looks like there's 3 of us married to the same woman...


I'd make a joke about the three of you all marrying my ex- (who was into polyamory for a while), but in my observations, there are a lot of women who once they have kids believe they have their husbands "locked in" -- removing a great deal of the incentive to actually do anything related to taking care of their marriage and leading to a devaluing of them, and their needs in a 'death by a 1000 paper cuts' sort of way.


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## Baldguitarguy (Jul 31, 2012)

Ah...the therapeutic laments on an internet forum....they do make me feel better...ok..at least feel like I am not alone.

4

4 times this year.

And those 4 times I, um, "finish" so fast because I am like so amazed at how good it feels and it's been so long - well - I just can't help myself. 

So I know she is not pleased with that.

Here is the thing, been married 26 years and the sex used to be great. It has been so long and my needs so ignored that I no longer want to.

She says I stopped trying. And I agree. I stopped trying. When you reach over and indicate that you are in the mood and 100% of the time she gets up to "let the dog out" or "go to the bathroom", one does stop trying.

I have not had a bj, wait - I did have one in November - before that I think it was years. Even when I ask for one, I get the blank stare.

We have issues like everyone else - money is tight - health is no so good, but one would assume we could work though this together.

I am in an endless spiral - and assume it will end up poorly.

I hope I am wrong.

Thank you for letting me vent.

I wish you all the best.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I hear you & I'm sorry you are among us as another unfortunate one. I quit asking as well, besides it being boring duty sex, it only happened occasionally. I could deal with even once a month sex, as long as it was fulfilling & brought emotional closeness.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

6


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

ScubaSteve- you're on a roll. What's your secret??


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> ScubaSteve- you're on a roll. What's your secret??


Last night was make up sex. I'll leave it at that.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Making up is always a good thing


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## TheBigRagu (Apr 23, 2013)

I'm at 5 as of Saturday, April 27th. Things are looking up, but we'll see how this maintains.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I had vowed to report my YTD count monthly on the 1st ... and since the 1st is only a few hours away I am 99.99999% sure that it will remain at one. 

So anyway, I am trying an experiment. It is a little embarrassing but no more embarrassing than a decent looking, in-shape guy not getting laid by his 330lb wife. I have decided that I am going to stop having sex period, meaning no masturbation. I have masturbated at least once a day for years, especially as my marriage has become sexless. Just about the end of day 3 and I am bursting at the seams ... getting aroused every 2 - 3 hours. Weird. Guess I've really been keeping my HD under control. If I can make it to the end of the week I'll keep going. What I'm really wondering is how long I will go before my body takes care of itself ... as in the middle of the night. That hasn't happened for years, mostly because I've never let it. 

Anyway, yes it is embarrassing ... but what the heck, it's TAM and this is part of my story.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I had vowed to report my YTD count monthly on the 1st ... and since the 1st is only a few hours away I am 99.99999% sure that it will remain at one.
> 
> So anyway, I am trying an experiment. It is a little embarrassing but no more embarrassing than a decent looking, in-shape guy not getting laid by his 330lb wife. I have decided that I am going to stop having sex period, meaning no masturbation. I have masturbated at least once a day for years, especially as my marriage has become sexless. Just about the end of day 3 and I am bursting at the seams ... getting aroused every 2 - 3 hours. Weird. Guess I've really been keeping my HD under control. If I can make it to the end of the week I'll keep going. What I'm really wondering is how long I will go before my body takes care of itself ... as in the middle of the night. That hasn't happened for years, mostly because I've never let it.
> 
> Anyway, yes it is embarrassing ... but what the heck, it's TAM and this is part of my story.


Be happy your blessing of a high libido hasn't been stripped down by the frequent rejections.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I had vowed to report my YTD count monthly on the 1st ... and since the 1st is only a few hours away I am 99.99999% sure that it will remain at one.
> 
> So anyway, I am trying an experiment. It is a little embarrassing but no more embarrassing than a decent looking, in-shape guy not getting laid by his 330lb wife. I have decided that I am going to stop having sex period, meaning no masturbation. I have masturbated at least once a day for years, especially as my marriage has become sexless. Just about the end of day 3 and I am bursting at the seams ... getting aroused every 2 - 3 hours. Weird. Guess I've really been keeping my HD under control. If I can make it to the end of the week I'll keep going. What I'm really wondering is how long I will go before my body takes care of itself ... as in the middle of the night. That hasn't happened for years, mostly because I've never let it.
> 
> Anyway, yes it is embarrassing ... but what the heck, it's TAM and this is part of my story.


Man, I'm sorry. What a story . I was coming here to give my count...but no way I do it now.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Man, I'm sorry. What a story . I was coming here to give my count...but no way I do it now.


Ha! Well, I'm not trying to be a bummer. I am genuinely curious how my body will react to not having any release whatsoever. Gotta keep it interesting and stop dwelling on the bad part. I think it is really interesting how after only 3 days, I am completely amped. Got in my car after lunch ... the car was warm ... hello there!


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I'm averaging 3-4 a week. Not all good, but I am getting laid and BJs are always good.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> I'm averaging 3-4 a week. Not all good, but I am getting laid and BJs are always good.


Good deal. Be proud and happy. I'll get laid again someday ... might take a couple of years but it will happen ... and if it doesn't, oh well, some people have bigger problems


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

The less you release, the less you'll need to or have the desire to. Self pleasure always just magnified by feeling of rejection. I try & keep all sex thoughts out of my mind, it's better that way. I'm at 2 for the year.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Good deal. Be proud and happy. I'll get laid again someday ... might take a couple of years but it will happen ... and if it doesn't, oh well, some people have bigger problems


You can have sex in the next week if you really feel like it just not with your wife.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

woundedwarrior said:


> The less you release, the less you'll need to or have the desire to. Self pleasure always just magnified by feeling of rejection. I try & keep all sex thoughts out of my mind, it's better that way. I'm at 2 for the year.


Your sex drive and feelings of affirmation affect more than your sex life, it affects your whole life.

Maybe a better alternative will be better self pleasuring, while keeping thoughts of the current wife OUT of your mental loop and OUT of your desire and do NOT use it as a mirror of you. It's not acceptable.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

treyvion said:


> You can have sex in the next week if you really feel like it just not with your wife.


Ha! I have no doubt about that. I am not going down that road. Besides, I have two daughters ... it is not an example I want to set. I will divorce first and then be very careful about who and when I bring someone else into the life I have with them.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Cumulative count...3, I think. I'm 39 and in that "peak" stage and...3. Not even a good 3.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Cumulative count...3, I think. I'm 39 and in that "peak" stage and...3. Not even a good 3.


Don't miss your peak stage if you can help it ... you'll never get it back.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Don't miss your peak stage if you can help it ... you'll never get it back.


Well, due to many other issues that have not shown any signs of improvement (and my H's flat out refusal to work with me on them), I have a plan set in motion to divorce him very soon. I could live with a bad sex life (and I have for the majority of our marriage) if that was the only issue. But when there are problems like chronic depression and negativity, untreated bipolar 2, refusal to go to counseling, 120 lb weight gain and subsequent health problems, refusal to get "unstuck" in life and move out of this trailer I've been stuck in for 19 years, etc...well, a crappy sex life is just the icing on the cake. It's the most difficult thing I've ever had to decide on, but I don't want to live the next 19 years watching his health deteriorate and his stomach getting huger while my needs continue to go unmet. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Well, due to many other issues that have not shown any signs of improvement (and my H's flat out refusal to work with me on them), I have a plan set in motion to divorce him very soon. I could live with a bad sex life (and I have for the majority of our marriage) if that was the only issue. But when there are problems like chronic depression and negativity, untreated bipolar 2, refusal to go to counseling, 120 lb weight gain and subsequent health problems, refusal to get "unstuck" in life and move out of this trailer I've been stuck in for 19 years, etc...well, a crappy sex life is just the icing on the cake. It's the most difficult thing I've ever had to decide on, but I don't want to live the next 19 years watching his health deteriorate and his stomach getting huger while my needs continue to go unmet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like you married the male equivalent of my wife. Yikes! I'm at the same place now in my marriage.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Cumulative count...3, I think. I'm 39 and in that "peak" stage and...3. Not even a good 3.


Well, you've gotten laid 3 times as much as I have  It wasn't even a good one ... had to stop, too sore she said. 

Yep, pretty much sucks.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Yes I have thought the same thing when I read about your wife. No one knows what it's like to be in the position we are in unless they've lived it. There are little things that are awkward/embarrassing, like, we went out to eat and they sat us at a booth. The table was fixed and couldn't be moved...he had to really squeeze and scoot to try to fit between the booth and the table. When we got up to leave, it was the same struggle. Just little things like that happen all the time, and it gets tiresome having to fuss with everything like that. I do care about my H, I wish him no ill will. I just feel there is so much more to life to enjoy and experience, and he's just not on the same page as me. 

I have thought to myself, if/when I start dating and if/when I become more serious about someone, they sure as heck better like to have sex. A lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Yes I have thought the same thing when I read about your wife. No one knows what it's like to be in the position we are in unless they've lived it. There are little things that are awkward/embarrassing, like, we went out to eat and they sat us at a booth. The table was fixed and couldn't be moved...he had to really squeeze and scoot to try to fit between the booth and the table. When we got up to leave, it was the same struggle. Just little things like that happen all the time, and it gets tiresome having to fuss with everything like that. I do care about my H, I wish him no ill will. I just feel there is so much more to life to enjoy and experience, and he's just not on the same page as me.
> 
> I have thought to myself, if/when I start dating and if/when I become more serious about someone, they sure as heck better like to have sex. A lot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ha! Wow ... I think your husband married the female equivalent of me! You described my feelings exactly.

Let's see ... the table shift when eating out, check. I'll also add getting squeezed in my seat on an airplane because she takes up more than one seat. Can't go on rides with her at the amusement park because she doesn't fit. Oh, yeah ... 3 toilets in my house in which I've had to replace all 3 cracked toilet seats. Having to purchase an extra sturdy office chair to replace the one she broke. Not being able to go up the stairs until she comes down because at best I can only squeeze by her ... which is topped by not being able to use the sink in the kitchen if she is standing at the island because she takes up the entire area. I could go on and on. I wish she would do something about her weight if only for herself but she refuses. I can't make her do it. I have made the extremely difficult decision to move on and like you, am putting my plan in place. Unfortunately, it is going to take some time. If her weight and lack of libido were the only issues then I would probably just deal with it but there are other problems as well that we just can't seem to get resolved. I've got nothing left to give.

... and yes ... any future SO will need to come with a raging libido ... she'll have somebody making up for years of sexual frustration


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Made it to 6. We haven't had anniversary sex in...I actually have no idea since it's been SO long.


Congrats! Sounds like he's starting to understand!


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

treyvion said:


> You can have sex in the next week if you really feel like it just not with your wife.


JSG...A wife/husband that creates a sexless marriage is doing the same damage as a PA. What would you do if you found out she was having a PA and that's why you weren't having sex?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> JSG...A wife/husband that creates a sexless marriage is doing the same damage as a PA. What would you do if you found out she was having a PA and that's why you weren't having sex?


I actually don't think that what I would do would be a lot different ... except that my view of her would change dramatically. It would hurt in a different way. I would be furious that the reason she wasn't making an effort in our marriage is because she had decided to go elsewhere ... much like finding out that right around the same time we separated a few years back, she immediately started hitting dating sites. I know why she did it ... seeking validation ... but the reason doesn't matter. I already feel taken advantage of and that would take it to an entirely different level. You are right in that it has damaged our relationship, probably beyond repair, regardless of the reason. 

Interestingly, now that I have told her I want a divorce, she is being unusually attentive. I had a number of follow up conversations with her and reiterated that the primary reason is simply the lack of effort on her part. Why is it that I am the only one reaching out, trying to make an effort? Now ... suddenly ... she seems to be making an effort. It isn't exactly what I had in mind ... her version of effort is trying to be the 'good wife' and doing things for me ... all the while continuing to avoid the fundamental challenges we have. When I said communicate, I didn't mean give me an updated calendar of her schedule. I don't think it is going to make a difference. 

I am not going to be able to file immediately. I am pretty much done unless some miracle happens but for practical reasons, it can't happen right away. I am probably a year and a half away from being able to finalize a divorce and at least 6 months away from filing. I'm not happy about that but I have a plan and I'll just have to be patient as it gets executed.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I would do a lot less talk and a lot more action. She will respond to you if she sees something different. Quit talking about it to her. Do the MAP... Let it work it's magic. 
I did... I had a text conversation with my LD wife today. 12 years of no sexting and today she sent me pics and told me she tried masturbation while I was at work. Been tracking her ovulation days. Today was the day to move on it.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> *I would do a lot less talk and a lot more action. She will respond to you if she sees something different. Quit talking about it to her. Do the MAP... Let it work it's magic. *
> I did... I had a text conversation with my LD wife today. 12 years of no sexting and today she sent me pics and told me she tried masturbation while I was at work. Been tracking her ovulation days. Today was the day to move on it.


Not quite sure what you mean by this. What is MAP? What do you mean by more action? Not sure there is much more action I can take.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Not quite sure what you mean by this. What is MAP? What do you mean by more action? Not sure there is much more action I can take.


MAP is Athol Kay's sex rank calculation.

So your MAP is maxxed out in your environment, and you have a high percentage of females who are so turned on by you, they just want to strip you of your trousers and give you oral sex?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

treyvion said:


> MAP is Athol Kay's sex rank calculation.
> 
> So your MAP is maxxed out in your environment, and you have a high percentage of females who are so turned on by you, they just want to strip you of your trousers and give you oral sex?


Why yes now that you ask, lol ... jk

No, I had no idea what he was referring too. There are things obviously that I can work on to increase my MAP just like everybody else. I am fairly certain that will not work with her. As evidence, I was probably in the best shape in my life 3 years ago at 42. Max Deadlift 600lbs/ Squat 500lbs / Bench 350lbs. Hit all those goals that year. I was cut with hardly an ounce of body fat. I had women (and men) give me the up and down countless times. I can tell you that made no difference with her whatsoever and in fact we were in the middle of a 3.5 year period without sex. The stress of the last couple of years have taken a toll ... the gray is coming in and I have lost a lot of muscle ... need to get back to that, for sure ... but I still rock it out with my shirt off. There are other ways to increase my "MAP" obviously and there is incentive to do that but I am nearly certain it will not make a difference with her.

I am starting to become convinced that the reason none of the conventional advice seems to work and she is so difficult to figure out is because she is an emotional child; I can't think of any other reason.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Why yes now that you ask, lol ... jk


:rofl:


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Why yes now that you ask, lol ... jk
> 
> No, I had no idea what he was referring too. There are things obviously that I can work on to increase my MAP just like everybody else. I am fairly certain that will not work with her. As evidence, I was probably in the best shape in my life 3 years ago at 42. Max Deadlift 600lbs/ Squat 500lbs / Bench 350lbs. Hit all those goals that year. I was cut with hardly an ounce of body fat. I had women (and men) give me the up and down countless times. I can tell you that made no difference with her whatsoever and in fact we were in the middle of a 3.5 year period without sex. The stress of the last couple of years have taken a toll ... the gray is coming in and I have lost a lot of muscle ... need to get back to that, for sure ... but I still rock it out with my shirt off. There are other ways to increase my "MAP" obviously and there is incentive to do that but I am nearly certain it will not make a difference with her.
> 
> I am starting to become convinced that the reason none of the conventional advice seems to work and she is so difficult to figure out is because she is an emotional child; I can't think of any other reason.


So you stripped all of your fat while you where with her? It made absolutely zero difference to her, so she looked at you and interacted with you in exactly the same way outside of the sex? When it was apparent the entire world interacted with you differently.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

treyvion said:


> MAP is Athol Kay's sex rank calculation.
> 
> So your MAP is maxxed out in your environment, and you have a high percentage of females who are so turned on by you, they just want to strip you of your trousers and give you oral sex?


No... JSG...MAP is the Male Action Plan. It is not a sex rank calculation. Read "married Man Sex Life Primer" it will help you and worth the time and little money invested in it. Please..it changed my life and many more men over the last few years.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> No... JSG...MAP is the Male Action Plan. It is not a sex rank calculation. Read "married Man Sex Life Primer" it will help you and worth the time and little money invested in it. Please..it changed my life and many more men over the last few years.


I got the kindle version already. I need to go back over it asap.

What about "Get Inside Her: Dirty Dating Tips and Secrets from a Woman on how to attract, seduce and get any female you want"?

MMSP should be a huge priority over this?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)




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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

treyvion said:


> So you stripped all of your fat while you where with her? It made absolutely zero difference to her, so she looked at you and interacted with you in exactly the same way outside of the sex? When it was apparent the entire world interacted with you differently.


I've always been very lean; very low body fat content. At that point I had put on more muscle than I ever had. We've been married for over 20 years so yes, while I was with her. She made comments on how I looked and offered up my services to friends who need muscle (moving furniture, etc) BUT it never translated into sex. Much like our early years when we were perhaps the most affectionate couple I knew ... the affection didn't translate into sex.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I've always been very lean; very low body fat content. At that point I had put on more muscle than I ever had. We've been married for over 20 years so yes, while I was with her. She made comments on how I looked and offered up my services to friends who need muscle (moving furniture, etc) BUT it never translated into sex. Much like our early years when we were perhaps the most affectionate couple I knew ... the affection didn't translate into sex.


I should add that at that point, yes I attracted a lot of attention. I've had plenty of opportunity to go outside my marriage over the years but especially during that point despite getting older. I'm just not built to do that. 

I own MMSLP but I'm currently finishing NMMNG and haven't started it yet. I am not a 10 by any stretch but I am a decent looking guy with a nice body and from what I know about sex rankings, I am above my 330lb wife. Making that disparity even greater is not going to make a difference; all it will do is attract attention from other people who rank higher than what I currently attract now. At least that is what I gather without having read the book. 

I actually feel uncomfortable talking about sex ranking. Seems too clinical to me. There are a lot of things that affect attraction and what I consider an attractive person may not be the same for others. Let me read the book though and we'll see.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I should add that at that point, yes I attracted a lot of attention. I've had plenty of opportunity to go outside my marriage over the years but especially during that point despite getting older. I'm just not built to do that.
> 
> I own MMSLP but I'm currently finishing NMMNG and haven't started it yet. I am not a 10 by any stretch but I am a decent looking guy with a nice body and from what I know about sex rankings, I am above my 330lb wife. Making that disparity even greater is not going to make a difference; all it will do is attract attention from other people who rank higher than what I currently attract now. At least that is what I gather without having read the book.
> 
> I actually feel uncomfortable talking about sex ranking. Seems too clinical to me. There are a lot of things that affect attraction and what I consider an attractive person may not be the same for others. Let me read the book though and we'll see.


You'd rather that your 330 LB wife becomes sexually available? Or did you want her to take care of her health and drop alot of the weight and improve her life.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

treyvion said:


> You'd rather that your 330 LB wife becomes sexually available? Or did you want her to take care of her health and drop alot of the weight and improve her life.


It is really both issues. For years, I have asked her to do it for her health and for her children. We have only recently discussed the impact it has on our sex life, within the last couple of months. Naturally, that didn't go over well. No, I would rather she did it for herself or her children and hopefully the side benefit would be that it resurrects her libido.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

I feel so sorry for all the husbands out here who are rejected by their uncaring wives. If a wife cared about her husband she would try to meet his needs, sexual and emotional. I have been married for 15 years, to a husband who has very low sex drive. He should have married one of your asexual wives then life would be perfect. It is May 2013, and we have not had sex once and he sees nothing wrong with it as this is his view of "real" life. I have tried talking to him about it but he does not see it as his problem, it is mine to deal with. I am not a sex fiend, just a normal woman who would like intimacy with her husband from time to time. I wish I could meet men and have an affair as I need to feel desired and a woman again. Just in case you are wondering, I am fit, exercise everyday and am told I am attractive. This is so sad - that I have to bear my heart out on some online forum to strangers.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> I wish I could meet men and have an affair as I need to feel desired and a woman again. Just in case you are wondering, I am fit, exercise everyday and am told I am attractive.


Well, obviously in some ways you could. What is keeping you from having an affair?

Btw, IMHO, an affair is not an answer. Hanging out in the CopingWithInfidelity section might convince one of the pain that can cause for all.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> It is really both issues. For years, I have asked her to do it for her health and for her children. We have only recently discussed the impact it has on our sex life, within the last couple of months. Naturally, that didn't go over well. No, I would rather she did it for herself or her children and hopefully the side benefit would be that it resurrects her libido.


I'm curious...does your wife have any sex drive or wish you would have sex more, but doesn't get that her obesity has killed your attraction to her? Or does she not even care if you never mentioned sex ever again? 

Do you want to have sex more with your wife as-is but she turns you down? Or do you not even initiate much because you're not sexually attracted to her, even if she was willing to have sex more?

My H makes his "moves" about once every other month (groping me while I'm cooking, grabbing my ass, making comments like "BOOBIES!!" when I'm getting dressed). This is his way of letting me know he's hoping to 'get some' very soon. In between these times, he's very neutral and non-affectionate. I don't know if he just simply doesn't have much interest, or if he's silently resenting me for not initiating or whatever. 

As for me, I'm sure my H would have sex more often if I really went after him, but I'm not sexually attracted to him. So I could have sex more, but I don't want it with him. It's a really awkward situation. Hope this makes sense. 

PS: for those who aren't married to an obese spouse while you have stayed in good shape, please refrain from judging about sexual attraction/desire. Thx


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

flipflops said:


> Thunder...you haven't had sex once this year?


Sad but true 

We sleep on the same bed every night. Husband reaches out to me to kiss me goodnight on the forehead like a little child or pet, and then sleeps. I have told him how this lack of intimacy makes me feel, but he thinks that this is what practical life is like. He has admitted that he has no sexual desire unless he is very relaxed and on vacation. Even if he initiates sex on vacation, it would be one time in a one week vacation. So there you go.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

flipflops said:


> I feel your pain. Until recently, I never even got the kiss goodnight from H.


Are are things improving for you flipflops? Hope they are. We all need hope!


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I'm curious...does your wife have any sex drive or wish you would have sex more, but doesn't get that her obesity has killed your attraction to her? Or does she not even care if you never mentioned sex ever again?
> 
> Do you want to have sex more with your wife as-is but she turns you down? Or do you not even initiate much because you're not sexually attracted to her, even if she was willing to have sex more?
> 
> ...


Well, I have to admit that I do not initiate very often anymore. She does have a low sex drive and has initiated maybe a handful of times over a 20 year marriage. For years, I was rejected for one reason or another ... after a while you just stop initiating as often. Nowadays, she has gained so much weight that I just can't find it attractive so I initiate even less. I don't have a problem with women with extra weight, I find it attractive on many women ... but this is extreme and it is pretty gross to be blunt.

Even when I do initiate, she finds a convenient excuse. The other day, I was feeling particularly randy and I sexted her, telling her I was going to be home a little early ... she asked why ... and I told her because I want to bang your brains out (thinking maybe a little dirty talk would help) ... she responded with "what does that mean, daddy?" Now, my daughter wasn't the one responding; it was her and she was messing with me ... but it sure did kill my arousal. So, I come home anyway ... and after dinner she announces she's going grocery shopping ... leaving me with the cleanup, the homework and the bedtime routine with my girls. I usually have no problem with that but this night was supposed to be different. Now, keep in mind that I'm the one who typically does the grocery shopping and almost always on weekends ... I have it built into my routine. I guess her only defense is I only did part of the grocery shopping this past weekend because I was away camping most of the weekend with my daughters for some father-daughter time. Still ... convenient excuse. So, after the girls are in bed, I come out of my office and she is already at home and in bed trying to go to sleep. Nice. Well, at least she helped with the groceries. It's sad that I was really hoping to have sex for only the second time this year.

I wish I had recognized the signs when we were dating. She wasn't as "into it" as any of my previous girlfriends. My girlfriend before her had a very high drive and it was a night and day difference ... too bad she also had a personality like nails on a chalkboard or I might not be having this problem  I didn't even realize at the time that she rarely initiated while my previous girlfriend initiated constantly and everywhere. 
No, I thought maybe she was just not completely in-tune with herself yet or I hadn't figured out her buttons yet ... thinking that would change over time. It has changed and on those rare occasions we do have sex, it is pretty good ... she's not at all adventurous (one position girl) so it might get monotonous if we did it more often but since we don't have it often, it is pretty fresh when we do. Her low drive hasn't changed ... she enjoys it but she doesn't crave it so it is a low priority for her and doesn't understand why it bothers me so much.

So yes, my sexless marriage for the most part a case of HD vs LD but in recent years due to her extreme weight gain, it has become partially my fault because I no longer initiate. I'm sure if I was more persistent, we might have had sex a few more times this year but not many. It's sad


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

One solution is to work on your looks, physical condition, and attractiveness, and then withdraw. Go out a little. For many women, excessive attention indicates need; women are attracted to that which other women want and find attractive. Start going out less and being less attentive, and place sex in the overall context of the relationship.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Bobby5000 said:


> One solution is to work on your looks, physical condition, and attractiveness, and then withdraw. Go out a little. For many women, excessive attention indicates need; women are attracted to that which other women want and find attractive. Start going out less and being less attentive, and place sex in the overall context of the relationship.


Well, if you're talking to me, you sure don't know my wife very well. I think she would argue there is no such thing as excessive attention. If she had her way, I would work a strict 9-5 job (I'm in IT ... not going to happen) and have nothing else in my life except paying attention to her ... and I don't think that is much of an exaggeration. She is the needy person in our relationship; I am most definitely not. 

I am in very good physical shape. I am not in the elite shape I was in a few years ago but I still got it. There are probably a few things I could do to improve my attractiveness ... expensive haircut, new clothes, etc. ... but I don't think I'd have any problem on the dating scene and have had my fair share of opportunities over the years. That is NOT something that is going to make her attracted to me in a way that will increase her sex drive. If anything, it will cause her to simply feel defeated and shut down.

She needs to grow some balls ... well, balls are sensitive and vulnerable ... she needs to grow a new vagina ... and a hormone treatment.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Want you guys to realize, sometimes you don't have sex male or female is because your spouse is "winning". Somehow they made sex the pivot point in an event they are going to win over you.

So it's so easy to "win", and you "lose". Try to beat that?


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Want you guys to realize, sometimes you don't have sex male or female is because your spouse is "winning". Somehow they made sex the pivot point in an event they are going to win over you.
> 
> So it's so easy to "win", and you "lose". Try to beat that?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Want you guys to realize, sometimes you don't have sex male or female is because your spouse is "winning". Somehow they made sex the pivot point in an event they are going to win over you.
> 
> So it's so easy to "win", and you "lose". Try to beat that?


I am trying reverse psychology to turn the tables around. My husband rejects me and we have an almost sexless marriage. Spoken to him many times and threatened divorce to no avail. Lately I have refused all forms of physical contact such as pecks in the cheek or holding hands. And if he dies try to have sex with me I will say no, as I no longer look to him as my sexual partner. I have never refused him sex, he needs to feel what it is like.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> I am trying reverse psychology to turn the tables around. My husband rejects me and we have an almost sexless marriage. Spoken to him many times and threatened divorce to no avail. Lately I have refused all forms of physical contact such as pecks in the cheek or holding hands. And if he dies try to have sex with me I will say no, as I no longer look to him as my sexual partner. I have never refused him sex, he needs to feel what it is like.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sometimes it has to be done. I wish it wasn't the way it is sometimes, you know all the reasons a "partner" will choose to not work with you or help you, but now going through my experience, I know, I accept it and I will move on much quicker when I realized it was purposely stalemated for my pain and their gain.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Hooray!! You two are starting to leave the rest of us in the dust, keep the "petal to the metal"!!!!


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

I gotta laugh at a nooner. Yay. Me too. But alas I'm home alone.

Hey we should start a new thread. Count of how many alone sessions. I win. Lol

But I still cheer on those who are having fun with their SO. Because I so want to also. Anyway....


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> I am trying reverse psychology to turn the tables around. My husband rejects me and we have an almost sexless marriage. Spoken to him many times and threatened divorce to no avail. Lately I have refused all forms of physical contact such as pecks in the cheek or holding hands. And if he dies try to have sex with me I will say no, as I no longer look to him as my sexual partner. I have never refused him sex, he needs to feel what it is like.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


..and you will be miserable.

Pay back is not the ideal plan.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Flip flops & Plan 9- Let's add to your numbers this weekend, you are all of our inspirations that give us hope. Keep it going.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

flipflops said:


> I sure hope this turnaround continues. I have plans for tonight...hopefully it works out. I'll let you know.


I plan on trying also. Good luck!


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Last night was number 8 for the year...the 8th day where nothing happened...though we did cuddle and she gave me a nice massage, and I fell asleep  She started the sexting already today, so it won't be number 9 tonight


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Well, having been soundly rejected twice this week, not really feeling like another attempt. My YTD number will remain at one.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Good luck, Scuba!


I can already tell I'm not going to add to the total. I asked her how long we'd be out tonight (doing shopping, errands, etc) and she kept asking why I wanted to know. After 3 deflections, I finally answered.

I got the "Why do you always have to text sexual stuff?" rant, as well as the "Why can't you just let things happen naturally!" rant, the "Love isn't all about sex!" rant, and finally the "We just did it 4 days ago!" rant.

Maybe because things DON'T happen naturally. And because when we make love, I FEEL loved. Full on, and truly.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> How quickly things go bad.... SIGH
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Boo!


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well, having been soundly rejected twice this week, not really feeling like another attempt. My YTD number will remain at one.


Really it's only 0.5 because she didn't even let you finish. At this rate, you will end up with 1.5 by the end of this year. And that's...just...sad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Really it's only 0.5 because she didn't even let you finish. At this rate, you will end up with 1.5 by the end of this year. And that's...just...sad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ha! True that!


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## RickyC (Apr 26, 2013)

This is so true. And this is why we count! Without the physical connection, what is there? Sometimes I feel like I am sharing an apartment with a friend (a friend I dont have sex with). We have had sex one time; one other time I couldnt even finish - almost no arousal whatsoever -- it's like something is gone. She blames timing, the kids, whatever. Even when there are opportunities when the kids are not around, she wont initiate it. She doesnt talk about, think about etc... I drop the hints.. I might as well talk to the wall. This has been going on for years. I told her when I get 50, later this year, if nothing changes, it might be over. I have tried to stay in this marriage for the sake of the kids, however, they are old enough now that hopefully they will be able to handle it. It's pretty sad when you opt to live better being alone than living in a house with someone you share nothing (emotionally or physically) with.


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## RickyC (Apr 26, 2013)

Your right.. to a point. When I did, or sometimes still do, it feels like a burden to her, you can tell. Like, "Oh no, not again." - even though it may have been months. Its almost a form of rejection you can only take for so long. Thanks for the reply.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

RickyC said:


> This is so true. And this is why we count! Without the physical connection, what is there? Sometimes I feel like I am sharing an apartment with a friend (a friend I dont have sex with). We have had sex one time; one other time I couldnt even finish - almost no arousal whatsoever -- it's like something is gone. She blames timing, the kids, whatever. Even when there are opportunities when the kids are not around, she wont initiate it. She doesnt talk about, think about etc... I drop the hints.. I might as well talk to the wall. This has been going on for years. I told her when I get 50, later this year, if nothing changes, it might be over. I have tried to stay in this marriage for the sake of the kids, however, they are old enough now that hopefully they will be able to handle it. *It's pretty sad when you opt to live better being alone than living in a house with someone you share nothing (emotionally or physically) with*.


My heart goes out to you RickyC. You are not alone. You voiced out exactly what I feel at times. Being alone without expectations is better than being married with expectations that are never fulfilled. It is just so sad


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> RickyC, I hear you on that one. That's why I finally opted to move out with the kids. It took actually planning that (not just saying it) for H to start changing. I couldn't handle being roommates any longer. Heck, I couldn't even stand being around him at that point. I just wanted him to vanish. It got that bad. Things are improving. We're both working on it.


I'm just sitting here thinking ... as a man, if a woman said to me that she wants more sex with me ... I'm thinking that is a good problem to have and I'd be all over that one. Even my own wife who at 330lbs (at least) is not attractive (while I'm here with 6-pack abs) ... if she said that to me, I think I'd be up to the challenge! I don't know ... I just don't get it.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> I would bet her weight has a lot to do with her lack of drive. And, maybe she's embarrassed about it. Maybe you've talked about it before and I just wasn't around or don't remember. I guess she's not motivated to do anything about it because you've let her off the hook and have stuck around.


She has never had a lot of drive but her drive has decreased even further over time and it I know it is very possible her weight contributes to that. We have had that discussion so many times and has been the theme of many of my earlier posts. She just refuses to do anything about it no matter how I frame the discussion. She has worked very hard to accept herself just as she is and that is wonderful but you can accept yourself and still strive to make positive changes. I just don't know what to do about it anymore ... nothing seems to get across to her to give her the motivation she needs. We have talked about everything from health to sex to fears to addiction to her perception of herself to the perception of her children to all the positive ways a healthy lifestyle can impact your life ... I can't think of anything that hasn't been said, discussed and debated ad nauseum.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> That is great that she can accepts herself. I'm working on being better at that myself. After too many years of being rejected you start taking it personally. It wasn't until I said I was moving out that I realized I'm not so bad. I could stand to lose a few pounds, but H could stand to lose a few, too.
> 
> You know what they say... You can't change a person. They have to want to change for themselves. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. * Well, actually you don't have to, right?*


Exactly.

EDIT: Once I finally got to that point ... to accept that the choice was mine to make and I was willing to make that choice ... everything changed. Not only was that a huge weight off my shoulders but I'm not holding back on the things that need to be said ... some of which should have been said a long time ago. I know now that if I move on, I will do so at peace with myself and my decision.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

Husband and I are having the talk now (taking a halftime break so checking in). Have shown him the draft divorce papers and that I am seriously walking out for lack of sex and intimacy in our marriage. He is making me feel like a witch or some nympho which I am not (is it too much to ask for sex once a month?). My cumulative count this year is ZERO BTW. Accusing me of wrecking a family because of a lack of sex. Sex is so unimportant to him - he cannot imagine why a person walks out of marriage because of it. He is a good provider and father to our kids, just not interested in sex.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> Husband and I are having the talk now (taking a halftime break so checking in). Have shown him the draft divorce papers and that I am seriously walking out for lack of sex and intimacy in our marriage. He is making me feel like a witch or some nympho which I am not (is it too much to ask for sex once a month?). My cumulative count this year is ZERO BTW. Accusing me of wrecking a family because of a lack of sex. Sex is so unimportant to him - he cannot imagine why a person walks out of marriage because of it. He is a good provider and father to our kids, just not interested in sex. All I am asking is to have sex once a month and during the weekends and it is too much for him!


Good luck.

My wife at one point accused me of simply wanting to leave for some "horned up slvt super athlete" (I like active women). No, I just want a normal sex life ... as in more than never.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> Accusing me of wrecking a family because of a lack of sex.


HE should ponder whether his unwillingness to address the lack of physical and emotional intimacy is wrecking a family.

Good luck to you and yours.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

coffee4me said:


> I wish I knew the answer to this because I see it so often and I lived it. But I was the one withholding. If my husband had given me an ultimatum while I still cared to save our marriage, I would have agreed to sex monthly or whatever. But I would just have agreed, a mechanical response. It would not have brought out affection in me.
> 
> The only way he could have reengaged my affection was to act responsibly in the other areas of our life. I did try to reengage intimacy to see if that would motivate him to fix the other things and we could then rebuild from there. It was a forced effort on my part as there was no desire for him there.
> 
> If your spouse agrees to intimacy and then just goes through the motions do you really think you will feel differently? When I had intimacy without the actual desire for my spouse (X now)- sigh - it felt worse than no intimacy.


No, I will not have sex with someone going through the motions. I don't want somebody who just lays there or wants to be somewhere else. Part of sex ... intimacy really ... is desiring and being desired. I have stressed throughout that our real failure is communication. If she has unfulfilled needs and wants ... in your case, you needed your husband to be responsible and fix things in other areas of your lives ... we need to be communicating. If they are under my control then in order to work on those things, I need to know ... and I will support those things that are not under my control (her losing weight, for example). We cannot fix the sex without fixing the communication.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> *HE should ponder whether his unwillingness to address the lack of physical and emotional intimacy is wrecking a family.*
> 
> Good luck to you and yours.


:iagree:


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

coffee4me said:


> * If my husband had given me an ultimatum while I still cared to save our marriage, I would have agreed to sex monthly or whatever. But I would just have agreed, a mechanical response. It would not have brought out affection in me. *
> 
> *If your spouse agrees to intimacy and then just goes through the motions do you really think you will feel differently? When I had intimacy without the actual desire for my spouse (X now)- sigh - it felt worse than no intimacy*.


Absolutely true. Husband kept asking for exact numbers and frequency I needed - so that he could tick it off his scoreboard and I cannot hold it against him. If it comes to this, we are doomed. A turn off actually.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

I think if/when I get serious with someone else in the future, I'm going to just be blunt with them about a few things. I'd have to sit them down and say, hey, there are a few things that I've learned from my failed marriage that I'll be damned if I let happen to me again. So...just so you know right up front, in regards to sex, this relationship isn't going to work if:

1) We don't share an unmistakable sexual chemistry
2) You don't have a strong desire to have sex regularly, as in, at LEAST 3-4 times a week 
3) You don't like being experimental with sex and you don't like to spend much time on it
4) You don't like kissing and cuddling and PDA
5) You let yourself go and gain an excessive amount of weight and neglect your health
6) You are uncomfortable discussing sex openly and honestly with me
7) You don't enjoy spending an occasional Saturday morning reconnecting physically and emotionally in a lazy love making session lasting for hours

In turn, I will hold myself to the above standards.

*Edited to add #7 after further thought


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I think if/when I get serious with someone else in the future, I'm going to just be blunt with them about a few things. I'd have to sit them down and say, hey, there are a few things that I've learned from my failed marriage that I'll be damned if I let happen to me again. So...just so you know right up front, in regards to sex, this relationship isn't going to work if:
> 
> 1) We don't share an unmistakable sexual chemistry
> 2) You don't have a strong desire to have sex regularly, as in, at LEAST 3-4 times a week
> ...


Think you covered my list exactly. How about 3-4 times a week PLUS 3 or 4 times on Saturday?  Ok, can't get too demanding but ...

Like you, I think that being upfront and honest about this is critical, at least once it's decided to explore something more long term.

I will have to give my wife credit ... she never had a problem with PDA ... affection, private or public is not something we ever had a problem with until the latter years.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Think you covered my list exactly. How about 3-4 times a week PLUS 3 or 4 times on Saturday?  Ok, can't get too demanding but ...


I've never had this with my H, but I fantasize about the idea of waking up lazily on a Saturday morning...a quick trip to the bathroom to brush my teeth and "potty"...then dive back into bed while it's still all warm, cuddle, giggle, kiss, and make love lazily for hours...get up, shower, eat a quick brunch, then hop back into bed for another round. It's not just about the sex, it's about one-on-one time, eye contact, affection, connection, being 100% focused on each other. I've never known that kind of physical and emotional connection with my H.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I've never had this with my H, but I fantasize about the idea of waking up lazily on a Saturday morning...a quick trip to the bathroom to brush my teeth and "potty"...then dive back into bed while it's still all warm, cuddle, giggle, kiss, and make love lazily for hours...get up, shower, eat a quick brunch, then hop back into bed for another round. It's not just about the sex, it's about one-on-one time, eye contact, affection, connection, being 100% focused on each other. I've never known that kind of physical and emotional connection with my H.


So ... putting that at the top of your bucket list? God I miss times like that. That is just ... hot. Days like that are like a pre-qualifier for marriage  Hopefully that fantasy becomes a reality for you sometime in the near future.

EDIT: Having days like that within your marriage could only keep the emotional and physical connection very strong. It doesn't have to become a distant memory. Ok, I'm changing my list ... it has to include days like that.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Agreed. I have also edited my list above to reflect added requirement.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Waking up to life said:


> I think if/when I get serious with someone else in the future, I'm going to just be blunt with them about a few things. I'd have to sit them down and say, hey, there are a few things that I've learned from my failed marriage that I'll be damned if I let happen to me again. So...just so you know right up front, in regards to sex, this relationship isn't going to work if:
> 
> 1) We don't share an unmistakable sexual chemistry
> 2) You don't have a strong desire to have sex regularly, as in, at LEAST 3-4 times a week
> ...


Wow, that seems like a lot of sexual requirements. How extensive is your list for other things? To me it just seems like so many people put a bigger emphasis on sex than other aspects. 
I know I would not qualify simply for number 7. I have no interest in that.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Agreed. I have also edited my list above to reflect added requirement.


Ha! You crack me up. Awesome.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

gbrad said:


> Wow, that seems like a lot of sexual requirements. How extensive is your list for other things? To me it just seems like so many people put a bigger emphasis on sex than other aspects.
> I know I would not qualify simply for number 7. I have no interest in that.


Maybe there is a bigger emphasis on it because some of us are suffering through marriages where sex either doesn't exist or it is infrequent and unfulfilling. "Sex is like money, it's only a problem when you don't have any."

... and I think you're crazy on number 7 ... that is just an amazing way to spend a day.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Maybe there is a bigger emphasis on it because some of us are suffering through marriages where sex either doesn't exist or it is infrequent and unfulfilling. "Sex is like money, it's only a problem when you don't have any."
> 
> ... and I think you're crazy on number 7 ... that is just an amazing way to spend a day.


I understand the infrequent and unfulfilling. That describes the sex in my marriage. Would I like a better sex life? Yes. But if I am ever in a position where I am looking for a new person, what the sex life would be like will not be the top priority to focus on. 

And for me, I don't think I could ever do #7. Sleeping in an extra hour is hard enough on a Saturday, let alone staying in bed for hours.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I think if/when I get serious with someone else in the future, I'm going to just be blunt with them about a few things. I'd have to sit them down and say, hey, there are a few things that I've learned from my failed marriage that I'll be damned if I let happen to me again. So...just so you know right up front, in regards to sex, this relationship isn't going to work if:
> 
> 1) We don't share an unmistakable sexual chemistry
> 2) You don't have a strong desire to have sex regularly, as in, at LEAST 3-4 times a week
> ...


Being open and honest up front is the only way to go after a sexless marriage. SO and I talked about all this and more at the very beginning of our dating life. 

Your listed points are very much what we discussed, agreed were right for us and enjoy. We are two HD people that had come from sexually disfunctional marriages.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

gbrad said:


> I understand the infrequent and unfulfilling. That describes the sex in my marriage. Would I like a better sex life? Yes. But if I am ever in a position where I am looking for a new person, what the sex life would be like will not be the top priority to focus on.
> 
> And for me, I don't think I could ever do #7. Sleeping in an extra hour is hard enough on a Saturday, let alone staying in bed for hours.


Well, no ... and I know that isn't what I'm saying. Sex is not THE top priority when focusing on a new relationship. I can think of many other things that are more important ... I have children, for example ... while I wouldn't be looking for a replacement for their mother, it is critically important that she would be a positive influence in their lives. Someone I would have no fear of bringing into their lives. That is just one of many things I would be looking for. 

That said, intimacy is also very important in a marriage and I do not wish to yet again settle down in a committed relationship with someone who is not on the same page as I am in that regard.

There are a lot of women out there who might be compatible with me sexually and incompatible with me in every other way. That is not what I'm looking for. I do actually have to like and respect the person I am committing to.

As far as #7 goes ... I don't know ... I live a very busy lifestyle with a lot of responsibility. I think it would be a healthy way to spend an occasional Saturday. Healthy for both me and my relationship. If you wanted to do that, you could find the time, just like I am sure you find the time to do other things you enjoy.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

gbrad said:


> Wow, that seems like a lot of sexual requirements. How extensive is your list for other things? To me it just seems like so many people put a bigger emphasis on sex than other aspects.
> I know I would not qualify simply for number 7. I have no interest in that.


If we all took the time to write out all of our requirements for a suitable partner, we would all be writing a book. We ALL have requirements, whether we are consciously aware of them or not. If we didn't, we'd all marry the first person we ever dated without a second thought. The thing is, when things fall into place naturally, we don't see it as a "requirement", because it's always been there. It's when we are missing out on aspects of a relationship that we realize are very important to us that we start to become consciously aware of this unspoken requirement. For example, say you married someone who was very physically fit and athletic just as you were. That was part of your normal expectation. You didn't feel the need to say, if you ever stop working out and you get really fat, then you've broken one of my requirements for a happy relationship. But then if your partner does stop working out, gains a lot of weight, dresses in dumpy clothes to hide his/her body, you realize how much this was important to you. It WAS a requirement, you just didn't consciously realize it. 

I could make a list a mile long of "requirements", but none of them would be anything most consider unreasonable. How about, you must brush your teeth every day and not have bad breath? Or, you must not treat me disrespectfully, or you need to treat my son well, or you need to call me if you can't go out like we planned, or you should be reasonably mentally stable, or I will not live with you in your parents' basement...again, we ALL have an ongoing list of criteria for choosing a partner. For me, sex is not the top priority. But as others on TAM have said, a relationship without a close sexual connection is nothing more than a roommate situation. Sex is what sets a romantic relationship apart from just being good buddies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Waking up to life said:


> I think if/when I get serious with someone else in the future, I'm going to just be blunt with them about a few things. I'd have to sit them down and say, hey, there are a few things that I've learned from my failed marriage that I'll be damned if I let happen to me again. So...just so you know right up front, in regards to sex, this relationship isn't going to work if:
> 
> 1) We don't share an unmistakable sexual chemistry
> 2) You don't have a strong desire to have sex regularly, as in, at LEAST 3-4 times a week
> ...


If that's how you know you like to live there is nothing wrong with expecting the relationship partner to prefer to live the same way. They are out there.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

Spent hours discussing issue with husband today. Husband shocked that I am initiating a divorce over a sexless marriage. He says he is going to get professional help. Past discussions have yielded no action or follow up in the past. He is passive aggressive, and he may just be promising to get help to keep the peace, with no intention of following through. One question for husbands though - do you need your wife to dress up sexily at night before you desire or initiate sex with her? Because Hubby brought up the point that T shirt and shorts at night does nothing for him. So he can go without sex indefinitely. But since he does not need sex, and I do, he says it is my job to seduce him before I can complain.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> Spent hours discussing issue with husband today. Husband shocked that I am initiating a divorce over a sexless marriage. He says he is going to get professional help. Past discussions have yielded no action or follow up in the past. He is passive aggressive, and he may just be promising to get help to keep the peace, with no intention of following through. One question for husbands though - do you need your wife to dress up sexily at night before you desire or initiate sex with her? Because Hubby brought up the point that T shirt and shorts at night does nothing for him. So he can go without sex indefinitely. But since he does not need sex, and I do, he says it is my job to seduce him before I can complain.


Seduce him no, initiate yes. If you have never made your intentions or needs clear then yes, I would say that should be attempted before raising it to the next level. Doesn't sound like that is what he's talking about though since I'm sure you've initiated.

Having to dress up sexily is ridiculous. A T-shirt and shorts IS sexy in my book (better is a T-shirt and no shorts  ). All it takes is ... "hey, wanna go fool around?" My marriage is a little different. I've had years of rejection. For a good part of our marriage, her breathing would be enough for me to initiate but after so much rejection, I do need some type of indicator that I'm not wasting my time. Really don't care what she's wearing.

No, he's making excuses. Not sure what a counselor is going to tell him but I hope for your marriage that in this case he finally gets the message and follows through.

EDIT: Btw, I do think it is a problem that my wife does nothing to be attractive for me. It isn't required for me to want to have sex with her ... but she could try to be attractive for me every once in a while. Then again ... she is extremely overweight ... 330lbs ... and she doesn't see this as a problem. I would guess that this isn't remotely your case.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Seduce him no, initiate yes. If you have never made your intentions or needs clear then yes, I would say that should be attempted before raising it to the next level. Doesn't sound like that is what he's talking about though since I'm sure you've initiated.
> 
> Having to dress up sexily is ridiculous. A T-shirt and shorts IS sexy in my book (better is a T-shirt and no shorts  ). All it takes is ... "hey, wanna go fool around?"
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that JSGW. I work out 5 days a week (2 hours each time) at the gym and run between 5 to 8 km everyday. I am 5 feet 7 and weigh no more than 127 pounds. I know I am attractive to most guys, just not my husband. I am not against dressing sexily to bed, just that if it there has to be a dress up requirement before my husband can have any sex with me that is just too put on for me. Where is the spontaneity? And believe me I dress attractively every day when I go out. After all, I have to do it for my sanity/ego since my husband makes me feel so rejected.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> Sorry to hear that JSGW. I work out 5 days a week (2 hours each time) at the gym and run between 5 to 8 km everyday. I am 5 feet 7 and weigh no more than 127 pounds. I know I am attractive to most guys, just not my husband. I am not against dressing sexily to bed, just that if it there has to be a dress up requirement before my husband can have any sex with me that is just too put on for me. Where is the spontaneity? And believe me I dress attractively every day when I go out. After all, I have to do it for my sanity/ego since my husband makes me feel so rejected.


Then I would say something is terribly wrong with him ... ok, not wrong necessarily ... wrong for your relationship. I am very attracted to athletic women and I think most guys are. It seems unfathomable to me that he has an attractive, fit woman walking around in a T and shorts and he doesn't initiate. Most guys would kill for that.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

JSGW - I think you are doing the right thing, keeping fit and looking good regardless of what your wife is doing to her own body. After all, we can only control ourselves and it never ever hurts to look good. My husband has a protruding belly, double chin and to top it all feels justified in rejecting me and having a non-existent sex life. To him, once every 2 to 3 months (5 times a year maybe) is a practical and okay sex life and he said he wouldn't call it sexless.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> JSGW - I think you are doing the right thing, keeping fit and looking good regardless of what your wife is doing to her own body. After all, we can only control ourselves and it never ever hurts to look good. My husband has a protruding belly, double chin and to top it all feels justified in rejecting me and having a non-existent sex life. To him, once every 2 to 3 months (5 times a year maybe) is a practical and okay sex life and he said he wouldn't call it sexless.


I'm sorry Thunder. I'm glad you've finally drawn the line in the sand. I imagine there is some relief now that your intentions are clear. I know that is the case for me. 

Some of these situations are hard to fathom. How does this happen? Does he even realize what he is about to lose?


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Waking up to life said:


> If we all took the time to write out all of our requirements for a suitable partner, we would all be writing a book. We ALL have requirements, whether we are consciously aware of them or not. If we didn't, we'd all marry the first person we ever dated without a second thought. The thing is, when things fall into place naturally, we don't see it as a "requirement", because it's always been there. It's when we are missing out on aspects of a relationship that we realize are very important to us that we start to become consciously aware of this unspoken requirement. For example, say you married someone who was very physically fit and athletic just as you were. That was part of your normal expectation. You didn't feel the need to say, if you ever stop working out and you get really fat, then you've broken one of my requirements for a happy relationship. But then if your partner does stop working out, gains a lot of weight, dresses in dumpy clothes to hide his/her body, you realize how much this was important to you. It WAS a requirement, you just didn't consciously realize it.
> 
> I could make a list a mile long of "requirements", but none of them would be anything most consider unreasonable. How about, you must brush your teeth every day and not have bad breath? Or, you must not treat me disrespectfully, or you need to treat my son well, or you need to call me if you can't go out like we planned, or you should be reasonably mentally stable, or I will not live with you in your parents' basement...again, we ALL have an ongoing list of criteria for choosing a partner. For me, sex is not the top priority. But as others on TAM have said, a relationship without a close sexual connection is nothing more than a roommate situation. Sex is what sets a romantic relationship apart from just being good buddies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I understand that. I guess to me it is odd to have a list of sexual requirements. For me, as long as we have sex, say once a week, then I would be happy. Are there are other things sexually that I would like to see happen, of course. But if I got more of what I wanted from the rest of the relationship, I would have no problem sacrifices some of those sexual wants.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> One question for husbands though - do you need your wife to dress up sexily at night before you desire or initiate sex with her? Because Hubby brought up the point that T shirt and shorts at night does nothing for him. So he can go without sex indefinitely. But since he does not need sex, and I do, he says it is my job to seduce him before I can complain.


She has dressed up sexily at night for me maybe three or four times in 20 years.

Not even close to a requirement for me.

In my experience, there can be a lot of rationalization by one partner to justify not meeting the other's needs. This sounds like an instance of that.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Max Deadlift 600lbs/ Squat 500lbs / Bench 350lbs. Hit all those goals that year. I was cut with hardly an ounce of body fat.


Damn! Is your wife blind? Does she ever comment on even finding you attractive? Is she really that indifferent to your physique? Does she ever give you a second glance when you take your shirt off? 

Coming from a person in your situation, I can say that it's a bit demoralizing when you work hard on being physically fit and attractive, and you want your spouse to take notice and appreciate it and make you feel sexy...but they don't. Sometimes I feel like I might as well trade in my girl six-pack for a big floppy belly to match my husband's, for what good it does me.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

At least he can still bench press his wife. For most guys that wouldn't be a problem. For him, it's quite an accomplishment. 



Waking up to life said:


> Damn! Is your wife blind? Does she ever comment on even finding you attractive? Is she really that indifferent to your physique? Does she ever give you a second glance when you take your shirt off?
> 
> Coming from a person in your situation, I can say that it's a bit demoralizing when you work hard on being physically fit and attractive, and you want your spouse to take notice and appreciate it and make you feel sexy...but they don't. Sometimes I feel like I might as well trade in my girl six-pack for a big floppy belly to match my husband's, for what good it does me.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

jd08 said:


> At least he can still bench press his wife. For most guys that wouldn't be a problem. For him, it's quite an accomplishment.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I, unfortunately, am not able to bench press my H. I'm only 5' and weigh 110 lbs...I can't bench 330 lbs.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Funny you guys were posting this. I have almost miraculous news! I am now up to two for the year! Ok, technically 1.5 ... but whatever. She initiated! Unreal. An hour and a half releasing 5 months worth of pent up sexual frustration, lol! I actually believe I could keep going for another hour and half but I'll take it. I almost forgot how relaxed and elated I feel afterwards. I have no idea why ... but I'll leave the analysis for tomorrow ... having sex with a 330lb woman for that long is a workout


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Damn! Is your wife blind? Does she ever comment on even finding you attractive? Is she really that indifferent to your physique? Does she ever give you a second glance when you take your shirt off?
> 
> Coming from a person in your situation, I can say that it's a bit demoralizing when you work hard on being physically fit and attractive, and you want your spouse to take notice and appreciate it and make you feel sexy...but they don't. Sometimes I feel like I might as well trade in my girl six-pack for a big floppy belly to match my husband's, for what good it does me.


No, my wife has acknowledged my physique on numerous occasions. She likes to squeeze my biceps and run her hands across my chest. I am fairly certain that this has a lot more to do with her than me. Yes, it has been demoralizing. When I came home while working up to those goals, my muscles engorged and my hair still wet with sweat ... she would barely acknowledge me ... too busy watching whatever show she had on. I like doing it for me so that's fine ... but what do I have to do to get her attention?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I, unfortunately, am not able to bench press my H. I'm only 5' and weigh 110 lbs...I can't bench 330 lbs.


I have to ask ... what the heck is wrong with YOUR spouse's eyesight. I don't mean to be crude ... but if my wife was 5' 110lbs and had a sex drive ... well, there would be some crazy sex going on, that is for sure


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

Maybe a few more months of frustration and you can. Bad sex or no sex will do a lot for your muscular strength. Lol. 



Waking up to life said:


> I, unfortunately, am not able to bench press my H. I'm only 5' and weigh 110 lbs...I can't bench 330 lbs.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I, unfortunately, am not able to bench press my H. I'm only 5' and weigh 110 lbs...I can't bench 330 lbs.


I've actually thought to myself when looking at her ... I can't believe I can bench press the equivalent of a person that size ... look how big she is! I have actually picked her up ... but it hurts her for me to do that.

I'm thinking if she was your size, I would throw her over my shoulder and carry her off to the bedroom every day when I got home. God I wish she would lose some darn weight.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> No, my wife has acknowledged my physique on numerous occasions. She likes to squeeze my biceps and run her hands across my chest. I am fairly certain that this has a lot more to do with her than me. Yes, it has been demoralizing. When I came home while working up to those goals, my muscles engorged and my hair still wet with sweat ... she would barely acknowledge me ... too busy watching whatever show she had on. * I like doing it for me so that's fine ... but what do I have to do to get her attention?*


Just my observation from my own experience and lots of talking with others and reading, there is little you can do to get the attention of a spouse like this. 

Many of the stories of the rejected are from men/women that are attractive, look after themselves and wanting to please their spouse. IMHO the LD are attracted at the start because they have a surge in their libido with the attractive spouse but then they cannot help but to fall back to their natural level of desire. These are people that really are not interested in sex so presenting them with an attractive, sexual being is not going to do much for them. 
Some also have issues around overt displays of sexuality, eg I have a great rack yet my ex hated any hint of them showing so I ended up living completely covered up. Most hot blooded men like a bit of boob showing. 
He was not into masturbation or porn, he could not discuss sex and never suggested anything out of the ordinary.

There is a big difference between HD/LD, the HD generally really enjoy the act of sex, the LD don't really get anything out of it. So the LD having an attractive mate is of no interest because the LD have little interest in sex.

Mr H has a very healthy drive, he appreciates the female form and enjoys seeing some skin. He likes sex, craves intimacy, can discuss it, do it and feels it. He is a very confident sexual being. 
Total opposite of the ex. That is why open and honest discussion is a must when entering a new relationship post sexless marriage. These conversations will reveal exactly the type of person you are with, it is easy for the LD to feign HD for the short term by simply having sex but it is their attitude towards all things sexual that will really come out when you talk.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Holland said:


> Just my observation from my own experience and lots of talking with others and reading, there is little you can do to get the attention of a spouse like this.
> 
> Many of the stories of the rejected are from men/women that are attractive, look after themselves and wanting to please their spouse. IMHO the LD are attracted at the start because they have a surge in their libido with the attractive spouse but then they cannot help but to fall back to their natural level of desire. These are people that really are not interested in sex so presenting them with an attractive, sexual being is not going to do much for them.
> Some also have issues around overt displays of sexuality, eg I have a great rack yet my ex hated any hint of them showing so I ended up living completely covered up. Most hot blooded men like a bit of boob showing.
> ...


Thank you Holland ... those are valuable observations. I think you nailed it exactly.


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## Visual1 (Apr 16, 2013)

Does oral sex count? I am in a sex less marriage, but she allow me to relief myself with oral sex on her body most of the time that I want to. Should I complain or just accept this? My wife she said she has hd but she does not what sex. She alway say she love me all the time. It just she is tire.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I was thinking about when we first got together. I had met her in Dallas while I was going through some corporate training and we became friends. I was seeing someone at the time who had a very high sex drive ... about the only thing we had in common. I knew that we had a connection right away but obviously nothing was going to happen while I was seeing this other woman. Anyway, not too long afterwards I was relocated to Philadelphia, ending the relationship I was in. She is from NYC and her father lives there so about 3 months later I get a call from her ... she was going home to see her father and her sister and asked if I wanted to come up to NY to "hang out". So, early on a Saturday morning I hopped on a train for NYC. 

Here is the part that I always thought was somewhat romantic but doesn't seem quite right ... my train arrived at Penn Station and she and her sister were waiting for me. I took the stairs up from the platform and they saw me long before I saw them ... but when she saw me appear at the top of the stairs she turned to her sister and said ... "I am going to marry that man." Now, at this point we had never kissed, held hands ... nothing. We hugged goodbye once. Most of our conversations were among other people. As romantic as that might sound ... who does that?

To finish out the story ... we spent the day in the city and then spent the night at her dads apartment in Queens. We slept in separate rooms but she crawled into my bed the next morning. I remember everything from that moment many years ago. I remember what she was wearing, her smell, the heat coming off her body, how she felt pressed against me ... everything. Of course, I was on "full alert" but her dad was in the other room and she made her intentions clear ... she wanted to snuggle and nothing more. I went back to Philly that afternoon but she invited me to come back the next weekend.

I came back the following weekend and we spent that day in the city again. We took the ferry to Liberty Island and on the way back on the ferry while we were pressed against each other fighting the wind, we had our first kiss. That evening she took me over to a friends house who had a spare bedroom in the basement. She was eager at this point and I couldn't wait. It was the most awkward, unfulfilling sex I had ever had. It was really bad. It was worse than the very first time I ever had sex. She just wasn't into it ... like it was just an act ... something you do when you are in a relationship. Here I had come out of a relationship with someone I had no connection with but was the hottest toe-curling adventurous sex of my life ... to someone I had an immediate and obvious connection with but absolutely zero passion in bed. Now, of course I chalked it up to first time jitters (first time with each other) or strange environment or perhaps I just needed to learn how to push the right buttons ... I never suspected that she just wasn't into sex period. 

Now, obviously the sex has gotten a lot better. We're pretty good together in the rare times we have sex and within the things she is comfortable with. She still doesn't crave it. She has no passion for it. She does not like to explore her sexuality or even talk about it. I am so not like that. I should have listened to my instinct that night.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Visual1 said:


> Does oral sex count? I am in a sex less marriage, but she allow me to relief myself with oral sex on her body most of the time that I want to. Should I complain or just accept this? My wife she said she has hd but she does not what sex. She alway say she love me all the time. It just she is tire.


I guess the important question is ... does it count for you? My guess is that because you are here, it does not. Complaining will not do any good. Having an honest conversation with her about what you need and want is your best option. Something is wrong with this picture ... she says she has a high sex drive but does not want intercourse with you. Have you eliminated the possibility of an affair?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

JSGW if you ever do find yourself out there again you will no doubt have a very highly tuned radar. Some of us learn after the fact what it was that really happened and what we really need/want.

If you are out there again just know there will be a woman that you can have both the sexual and non sexual connection with. I am blessed to have found it with SO, had I not been in such a black hole with my past marriage I may never have recognised gold when I finally found it.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'm curious if flipflops and Scuba Steve were able to up their hit rates this weekend.


Nope. I ticked her off by obliquely referencing what I wanted to do in text on Friday, then Saturday her "aunt" came to visit, so that put the full shut down on any hopes of it for at least a week.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Sorry about that, Scuba! Do you text her stuff like that all of the time? I would find it a turn off if H did it all of the time. H has only done that twice to me and both times that was the end of it. Nothing happened. If he did it occasionally and followed through, I think I'd like it. It wouldn't tick me off. Good luck next week!


It used to go both ways, we would text each other that sort of thing all the time. Pictures would even be sent. That all ended about the time the engagement ring hit her finger. I tried after that a couple times, and got subject changes.

The text that ticked her off was asking her how long we'd be in town. She kept asking why I wanted to know. I told her that it was because "Its Friday night, we are alone tonight, and I love you." (step son spent the weekend at his dad's). 

See what I mean about oblique reference? I didn't say anything of the sort, that I wanted to blank her blank, or do any blanking blanking blank. Hell most nights I'd be happy to go to sleep cuddling (which never happens either). 

Trust me, if there was any interest whatsoever coming from her, I would DEFINITELY follow through, for as long as I was allowed to.


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## Visual1 (Apr 16, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I guess the important question is ... does it count for you? My guess is that because you are here, it does not. Complaining will not do any good. Having an honest conversation with her about what you need and want is your best option. Something is wrong with this picture ... she says she has a high sex drive but does not want intercourse with you. Have you eliminated the possibility of an affair?


The first time I confronted her about this issue, she said she was tired all the time from doing house chores. Lately, I have helped her out a lot with the house chores. She does not give me that excuses. I thought she has LD, so I told her to get her libido check. She then told me that she does have HD. The reason she does not want to have sex because it hurts her. Also, she said that she still get drama from the hurting while doing sex when we first got married, which was 14 year ago. She went to the doctor, and the only thing the doctor recommend was to use some lubricant. any recommend on how to get her over the drama or fear that it hurt?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Visual1 said:


> Does oral sex count? I am in a sex less marriage, but she allow me to relief myself with oral sex on her body most of the time that I want to. Should I complain or just accept this? My wife she said she has hd but she does not what sex. She alway say she love me all the time. It just she is tire.


She is giving you oral? Or lets you give it to her?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Visual1 said:


> The first time I confronted her about this issue, she said she was tired all the time from doing house chores. Lately, I have helped her out a lot with the house chores. She does not give me that excuses. I thought she has LD, so I told her to get her libido check. She then told me that she does have HD. The reason she does not want to have sex because it hurts her. Also, she said that she still get drama from the hurting while doing sex when we first got married, which was 14 year ago. She went to the doctor, and the only thing the doctor recommend was to use some lubricant. any recommend on how to get her over the drama or fear that it hurt?


Go see a sexual therepist. If there is true pain, determine the real cause of the pain. Perhaps you are going too deep, and it's causing a pain which cause her to dry up and not want it. It's real, it's nothing for her to get over, some women are not comfortable with deep penetration and it's painful enough that it reduces their interest in sex, possibly to none at all.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> How big was your wife when you married? Does she eat healthy? Has she seen a doctor about it? I porked out (20 lb gain and fast) at 33 and struggled to stop gaining. Nothing would stop it. I had a hysterectomy and about 2 months later I went hypothyroid. I took the meds for about 6 months, lost the weight and then stopped them. I didn't like how I felt on them. I've tested fine since. I will say there are doctors out there that will just say...go lose some weight and you'll be fine. That is a horrible thing to say to a person who truly has tried. I was eating 700-800 calories a day, exercising and gaining. I had to go to several doctors before someone would test me.
> 
> I could stand to lose about 20-25 lbs now, but I've been working on that since I told H I was moving out. It's going slow, but it's going.


She is 5'7" and weighed about 165lbs when I married her. She was definitely not a thin girl but she was well proportioned and attractive. She weighed less when we met. At her height she could have stood to lose 20 lbs when we married ... but it didn't bother me. She has literally doubled her weight since then. 

She has seen numerous doctors and dieticians over the years. Every time she sees a doctor, it is a topic of conversation and they've pretty much eliminated a medical condition as the cause for her weight. They were especially concerned around the time we had children and she was pre-diabetic with our first child. She is not diabetic but they monitor her closely for that.

Her diet isn't terrible but it certainly isn't an appropriate diet for anybody wanting to lose weight. It isn't how much she eats but what she eats. She is also extremely inactive. 

So, I spent Saturday afternoon building a trampoline with my girls and then playing with them. It was warm and sunny outside. She stayed inside in her night gown peaking outside every once in a while but mostly just sitting, playing games on her phone. I don't expect her to start running marathons ... but come on now ... get off your butt every once in a while.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

flipflops said:


> How big was your wife when you married? Does she eat healthy? Has she seen a doctor about it? I porked out (20 lb gain and fast) at 33 and struggled to stop gaining. Nothing would stop it. I had a hysterectomy and about 2 months later I went hypothyroid. I took the meds for about 6 months, lost the weight and then stopped them. I didn't like how I felt on them. I've tested fine since. I will say there are doctors out there that will just say...go lose some weight and you'll be fine. That is a horrible thing to say to a person who truly has tried. I was eating 700-800 calories a day, exercising and gaining. I had to go to several doctors before someone would test me.
> 
> I could stand to lose about 20-25 lbs now, but I've been working on that since I told H I was moving out. It's going slow, but it's going.


When you were eating "700" or "800" calories daily ontop of working out... Were you also drinking alcohol? Alcohol has alot of calories and a double wammy of lowering your metabilism and testosterone output...

If your body is not acting right and putting on weight even with a superlow calory intake, get your blood levels checked to determine your hormone and your thyroid levels. Sometimes something is just way outta wack.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> She is 5'7" and weighed about 165lbs when I married her. She was definitely not a thin girl but she was well proportioned and attractive. She weighed less when we met. At her height she could have stood to lose 20 lbs when we married ... but it didn't bother me. She has literally doubled her weight since then.
> 
> She has seen numerous doctors and dieticians over the years. Every time she sees a doctor, it is a topic of conversation and they've pretty much eliminated a medical condition as the cause for her weight. They were especially concerned around the time we had children and she was pre-diabetic with our first child. She is not diabetic but they monitor her closely for that.
> 
> ...


I think you realize that you have a problem and you do something about it. As far as to where the current wife is at and where she needs to go, it's going to take along time to get back to where she was, but each progress along the way is going to make her feel better and better.

If she thinks she feels good today, she is going to feel much better taking care of this problem.

She has to decide, and in deciding she has to know this is going to be a long and drawn out process 12-18 months to correct it.

She also needs to know, that yes she's where she is at today, and it can get even worse.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Quantity 36
Quality 2 - don't see this number changing much...


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## Visual1 (Apr 16, 2013)

treyvion said:


> She is giving you oral? Or lets you give it to her?


She just laying there doing nothing and allow me to do whatever I wanted.


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## Visual1 (Apr 16, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Go see a sexual therepist. If there is true pain, determine the real cause of the pain. Perhaps you are going too deep, and it's causing a pain which cause her to dry up and not want it. It's real, it's nothing for her to get over, some women are not comfortable with deep penetration and it's painful enough that it reduces their interest in sex, possibly to none at all.


I don't think going too deep is an issue, since I am an asian guy, my thing is shorter than most. so too deep is not an issue. At the beginning of my marriage, I did not know much about her need to get wet before I enter. I alway enter right away. That way she still dram from it.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Treyvion, who cooks in your house? 
Is she on birth control? 
She sounds sad and depressed to me. A lot of people don't talk about how they really feel when they are that big but I bet she is ashamed and it literally hurts to move. Every step she takes reminds her of how fat she is. 
Have you asked her if she would like to be able to join you outside and play with the kids?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Visual1 said:


> I don't think going too deep is an issue, since I am an asian guy, my thing is shorter than most. so too deep is not an issue. At the beginning of my marriage, I did not know much about her need to get wet before I enter. I alway enter right away. That way she still dram from it.


Part of sex, is you need to get them aroused first. If you have someone who is giving it to you, when they are not aroused it can be painful or uncomfortable for them until they lubricate.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

So guys, put yourself in my H's shoes...he's 42, chronically depressed (although denies it), 120 lbs overweight, he has chronic joint pain, complains that his muscle strength is so much weaker than it was 15 years ago, and is interested in sex only once a month or less. 

To add the icing on the cake, he has low testosterone. I don't remember how low, but I remember thinking it was about 200 points below the lowest in the normal range. His doctor wanted him to try a c-pap machine for his then diagnosed sleep apnea because it can cause low-T. He HATED the cpap with a passion. Used it about a month then took it back...wouldn't try a different kind of mask or anything. Refused to use it because it was "stupid". So later I reminded him that now many months have gone by since his low-T diagnosis and it hasn't been treated. I told him about the gels...he said that was "stupid" that you'd have to put on a gel every day. I mentioned the injections...again..."stupid". I asked that he AT LEAST ask his primary care doctor what he thought about his untreated low-T. His doctor gave him exactly the answer he wanted to hear: it wasn't necessary to treat it. His levels weren't "that bad", and any benefit from from T gels or injections do not outweigh the risk of side effects. 

If you were my H, wouldn't you want to at least try to get the low-t treated to see if it would help you lose weight, feel stronger, have more sex drive, etc? Or are those unrealistic expectations?


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Low T is present. But get him tested for thyroid and uric acid too. High uric acid can be killing his joints.


He's been tested for those things plus a myriad of other ones. He did come up as vitamin D deficient, so he takes a prescription supplement. He does think it helps a little with his joint pain. His thyroid has been tested numerous times over the years and it's been fine. The only conclusive abnormalities that have been found are the low T and the low D.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> So guys, put yourself in my H's shoes...he's 42, chronically depressed (although denies it), 120 lbs overweight, he has chronic joint pain, complains that his muscle strength is so much weaker than it was 15 years ago, and is interested in sex only once a month or less.
> 
> To add the icing on the cake, he has low testosterone. I don't remember how low, but I remember thinking it was about 200 points below the lowest in the normal range. His doctor wanted him to try a c-pap machine for his then diagnosed sleep apnea because it can cause low-T. He HATED the cpap with a passion. Used it about a month then took it back...wouldn't try a different kind of mask or anything. Refused to use it because it was "stupid". So later I reminded him that now many months have gone by since his low-T diagnosis and it hasn't been treated. I told him about the gels...he said that was "stupid" that you'd have to put on a gel every day. I mentioned the injections...again..."stupid". I asked that he AT LEAST ask his primary care doctor what he thought about his untreated low-T. His doctor gave him exactly the answer he wanted to hear: it wasn't necessary to treat it. His levels weren't "that bad", and any benefit from from T gels or injections do not outweigh the risk of side effects.
> 
> If you were my H, wouldn't you want to at least try to get the low-t treated to see if it would help you lose weight, feel stronger, have more sex drive, etc? Or are those unrealistic expectations?


If I had any concerns about my testosterone, I would do something about it. His sleep apnea can cause low T and cause him to feel tired all the time. The extra weight is probably causing his sleep apnea. Of course, feeling tired all the time and having low T isn't going to help him lose the weight that is likely causing them in the first place. I wonder if these responses are all related to his depression. Sounds like he needs counseling. It sounds like he's just given up. 42 years old is too young to allow yourself to just give up. He can have many years of robust life ahead of him.

These are not unrealistic expectations but the root of the problem is not his low T ... it's what is going on in his head.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

Am glad to report that we had memorable sex yesterday for the first time in months. This is after I handed him the draft divorce papers after one month of not speaking to each other as I was fed up with the lack of intimacy. Not sure why I always have to threaten divorce to get him to sleep with me. I mean, which normal guy of 40 years does not enjoy sex? I am cautious if things will turn around, because last night, he begged to be let off sex for the next 2 nights. He seems to enjoy sex while we are at it, but I wonder which man will ask the wife for a time out (after a long season of drought). He did ask me to wear something sexy every night if I wanted sex as he had no mood for sex without sexy outfits. How very odd? Or normal after a marriage of 15 years?


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> Am glad to report that we had memorable sex yesterday for the first time in months. This is after I handed him the draft divorce papers after one month of not speaking to each other as I was fed up with the lack of intimacy. Not sure why I always have to threaten divorce to get him to sleep with me. I mean, which normal guy of 40 years does not enjoy sex? I am cautious if things will turn around, because last night, he begged to be let off sex for the next 2 nights. He seems to enjoy sex while we are at it, but I wonder which man will ask the wife for a time out (after a long season of drought). He did ask me to wear something sexy every night if I wanted sex as he had no mood for sex without sexy outfits. How very odd? Or normal after a marriage of 15 years?


After 1 year of marriage, I desire my wife whether she is wearing heavy flannel pajamas, shorts and a t shirt, a towel, or nothing whatsoever. I desire her right now, and she's not even with me. 

But that's just me.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> Am glad to report that we had memorable sex yesterday for the first time in months. This is after I handed him the draft divorce papers after one month of not speaking to each other as I was fed up with the lack of intimacy. Not sure why I always have to threaten divorce to get him to sleep with me. I mean, which normal guy of 40 years does not enjoy sex? I am cautious if things will turn around, because last night, he begged to be let off sex for the next 2 nights. He seems to enjoy sex while we are at it, but I wonder which man will ask the wife for a time out (after a long season of drought). He did ask me to wear something sexy every night if I wanted sex as he had no mood for sex without sexy outfits. How very odd? Or normal after a marriage of 15 years?


I've been married 20 years; my wife is so large ... she is the opposite of sexy; right after sex the other night I wanted to know when we could do it again.

I'm sure there are times when I wouldn't be interested in sex ... although I can't think of one right off the top of my head.

Point being that yes ... your husband's reaction seems a little odd to me.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

So the hubby went off to bed - to sleep - before 10 pm tonight. And that's why I am logging in here like a loser instead of having mind blowing sex right now  Sad. And I don't even need mind blowing sex - run of the mill sex would have sufficed.

I have been exercising like a maniac to let off my frustration at him. Lately, been thinking that he does not deserve me. Which husband does not want a wife who desires sex with him? 

Then again, I am married to him for better or worse......


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> So the hubby went off to bed - to sleep - before 10 pm tonight. And that's why I am logging in here like a loser instead of having mind blowing sex right now  Sad. And I don't even need mind blowing sex - run of the mill sex would have sufficed.
> 
> I have been exercising like a maniac to let off my frustration at him. Lately, been thinking that he does not deserve me. Which husband does not want a wife who desires sex with him?
> 
> Then again, I am married to him for better or worse......


Most of the people in this thread, or even this section of the forum, are married to that person. The one that they want the most in the world, who, for whatever reason, doesn't want them back.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> Most of the people in this thread, or even this section of the forum, are married to that person. The one that they want the most in the world, who, for whatever reason, doesn't want them back.


This is the fundamental reason many of us are here outside of our LD contributers.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> Am glad to report that we had memorable sex yesterday for the first time in months. This is after I handed him the draft divorce papers after one month of not speaking to each other as I was fed up with the lack of intimacy. Not sure why I always have to threaten divorce to get him to sleep with me. I mean, which normal guy of 40 years does not enjoy sex? I am cautious if things will turn around, because last night, he begged to be let off sex for the next 2 nights. He seems to enjoy sex while we are at it, but I wonder which man will ask the wife for a time out (after a long season of drought). He did ask me to wear something sexy every night if I wanted sex as he had no mood for sex without sexy outfits. How very odd? Or normal after a marriage of 15 years?


Not normal at all, I agree. Bigger problems under the surface, most likely. 

But, at the end of the day, you have both communicated your needs. You tell him you need to have sex. He tells you that he wants you to wear something slinky to get him in the mood. 

So, call his bluff. Wear something slinky everynight and get after it. My hunch is that he will come up with another excuse after a short while. But, to get what you want, give him what he sez he wants. 

Either way, you win. Either he responds to your efforts and gives you what you want. Or he falls short yet again, and you have another data point on which to make a decision regarding the future of the relationship.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Somebody needs to tell my wife that sleeveless, skin tight shirts are definitely not ok ... her arms are bigger than my head. Yeah, one of those nights I look at her and think ... ewww. That's terrible of me, I know.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> I'm thinking tonight will be #7. H just pinned me against the freezer door in the basement...in a good, fun loving, horny sort of way. I think he was excited the new part worked and the flood didn't destroy it.


That's what Noah's wife said right after his implant.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Yes, it is. But, I can understand it, too.


Yeah ... but she has this cottage cheese thing going on with the fat on the back of her arms ... I try not to think about it ... but there it is.

Oh, I'm not going to say anything, lol ... I do want to add to my cumulative count  Somebody else needs to tell her.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Yeah ... but she has this cottage cheese thing going on with the fat on the back of her arms ... I try not to think about it ... but there it is.
> 
> Oh, I'm not going to say anything, lol ... I do want to add to my cumulative count  Somebody else needs to tell her.


I understand the difficult position you are in. It is not easy to stay married to a heavily overweight person, especially if you are not overweight yourself. I think if you did say something about her weight, it might make matters worse. Maybe have a talk and ask her whether there is anything that you could do as a husband to improve your relationship, in what ways you could be more supportive. Let her talk about how she feels and leave any talk about sex or her weight outside of it. I am sure she will feel more connected to you after this, and you will definitely be adding to your cumulative count.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> I understand the difficult position you are in. It is not easy to stay married to a heavily overweight person, especially if you are not overweight yourself. I think if you did say something about her weight, it might make matters worse. Maybe have a talk and ask her whether there is anything that you could do as a husband to improve your relationship, in what ways you could be more supportive. Let her talk about how she feels and leave any talk about sex or her weight outside of it. I am sure she will feel more connected to you after this, and you will definitely be adding to your cumulative count.


Big Sigh ...

Yeah ... I've tried that conversation many times. She doesn't have much to say. Actually, I've had to take a hard line in recent times because it got to the point that I felt like I was doing everything for her ... I really felt disrespected and taken advantage of. It's a fine line to walk with somebody who wants to be treated like a princess. It's just a really difficult situation.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Cottage cheese?


Weird, clumpy fat on the back of her arm. Fat dimples on steroids.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> :wtf:
> 
> Does she not clean herself? Sorry, but that is repulsive.


She does. Actually, she does keep herself well groomed. She has just gotten that big. She used to have these beautiful elegant arms ...


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Every woman likes to be treated like a princess now and then. But, not if it makes another feel disrespected.


Oh, I know ... and I have no problem with that. It is when it is over the top, selfish, expected and taking advantage ... that I have a problem with ... and will not allow.

I still believe that she is in some ways, looking for what her parents (and specifically her father) didn't provide in childhood. Father was an alcoholic living in bars and her mom was mostly absent.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Ok, JSGW, you need to step back and find something nice to say about your wife. Please? I understand where you are coming from but if you continue the negative path you're headed down, it can't be good. Tell us three things you love about your wife...


Oh that is easy. You are only hearing the side that I need to get off my chest because I have no other real outlet.

1) She is a wonderful mom, providing for the emotional needs of our children in a way that I can't.
2) She has a great smile and laugh and can still make me laugh. We share a very similar sense of humor.
3) She is a caring and compassionate person. She has a great big heart and I love her for it.

No, she is a wonderful person. On the one hand, our differences make it difficult to live together as a married couple. However, as a person I not only love her but I really like her. It is why have put in so much effort and passion into trying to fix our problems. You have no idea how much I don't want this to fail ... but I am now willing to accept that I can let it go and she knows this.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> Maybe I'm just odd. We have a single driveway (pain in the arse) but I love when H moves my car so I'm good to go to take the kids to school in the morning. That makes me feel princess-like. Better yet, I love when he opens the door for me. I never expect it (obviously as he rarely does it, but he gets well rewarded if he does). However, it would never, ever make me feel good if it made someone else feel like crap. That's just wrong.
> 
> What didn't her father provide? Just curious because I had a less than ideal childhood.


He was never there ... he lived in bars. Her and her sister would find him somewhere in the house passed out drunk, mom's not home, they can't wake him up ... little girls. They never knew if or when he was going to be there. She only has a few good memories of her father from her childhood.

I imagine she missed out on all the affection and attention that a father should be providing to a daughter. A father is a daughter's first male relationship and has huge consequences for future relationships. A father's job is to build his daughter's confidence and provide the tools she needs to navigate life and make good choices. She didn't have that.

Btw, I open the door for my wife on a routine basis.


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

I find it so amazing that we have these marriages that are "wonderful" except the sex. And it's not just the piv that we are looking for (yes that would be nice) but just touch me. My hubby does lots for me. He just won't touch me. But as you all know he likes to touch others so we have issues. Not important here. Wrong thread for my issues. 

I am always cheering on everyone as we work through our issues. And those who have sex regular like plan 9. I would love to take that magic pill that changes this one aspect of my life.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

sorry, guys... n. 6 for me... last week. We'll see what happens next!


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## TheBigRagu (Apr 23, 2013)

Still at 5. Rejected yesterday...ignored today. She never complains about it and really just kind of skirts around the issue. I wonder if she's cheating on me.....


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## Visual1 (Apr 16, 2013)

Don't remember how many so far this year. But I will starting count from now on. 

I had a long talk with her. I asked her if she think our sex life is normal. She said yes. I then told her that it is not normal. We rarely make love/sex. I told her it is very important to me and I don't think it is normal. I told her to google to see how many time couple do it per week. She said she understand. 
I left to go to work. I did pickup some K-y gell on the way home yesterday. So today we did. She had a O and I took my time and not really enter her all the way. Afterward, she said, it did hurt a little. I don't know what the problem still. 

So, I will be starting my count now.

Starting in May is 1.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Visual1 said:


> Don't remember how many so far this year. But I will starting count from now on.
> 
> I had a long talk with her. I asked her if she think our sex life is normal. She said yes. I then told her that it is not normal. We rarely make love/sex. I told her it is very important to me and I don't think it is normal. I told her to google to see how many time couple do it per week. She said she understand.
> I left to go to work. I did pickup some K-y gell on the way home yesterday. So today we did. She had a O and I took my time and not really enter her all the way. Afterward, she said, it did hurt a little. I don't know what the problem still.
> ...


You don't know why she hurted? Did you give he forplay first? The easiest would be to orally stimulate her, I say 5 to 10 minutes should warm things up down there and get her stimulated.

Also what sights and sounds does she enjoy. This can help her as well.

I'm glad you guys where to enjoy each other. And I hope if there is pain it dies down over time to pure enjoyment.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Visual1 said:


> Don't remember how many so far this year. But I will starting count from now on.
> 
> I had a long talk with her. I asked her if she think our sex life is normal. She said yes. I then told her that it is not normal. We rarely make love/sex. I told her it is very important to me and I don't think it is normal. I told her to google to see how many time couple do it per week. She said she understand.
> I left to go to work. I did pickup some K-y gell on the way home yesterday. So today we did. She had a O and I took my time and not really enter her all the way. Afterward, she said, it did hurt a little. I don't know what the problem still.
> ...


BTW, "Astroglide" is a better sex lubricant. KY jelly can "dry" and become tacky, and it's almost worst than nothing at all. "Astroglide" is like putting high quality motor oil in an engine, it's very slick and even more slick when pressure is applied.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Is there any possibility that your w has been sexually assaulted? 
Has she gone to alanon or had IC? 
A lot of families of alcoholics use food to distract from the pain and end up addicted to it.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

diwali123 said:


> Is there any possibility that your w has been sexually assaulted?
> Has she gone to alanon or had IC?
> A lot of families of alcoholics use food to distract from the pain and end up addicted to it.


JSGW, 

I was just about to mention AdultChildrenOfAlcoholics, ACoA. I did that in my mid twenties and found it quite helpful in leaving behind some of my childhood baggage.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

#3 for me. Not getting my hopes up just yet, but we are getting closer again & are making the most out of our 2 nights a week with no baby.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

All of our kids are adults, her daughter just moved out 9 months a go, I was looking forward to a lot of husband & wife time but our grand daughter was born in 2010 so the wait continues again...


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> #3 for me. Not getting my hopes up just yet, but we are getting closer again & are making the most out of our 2 nights a week with no baby.


Maybe this little break from the baby is just what she needs to see she can enjoy sex again, even after you all start watching the baby again.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

flipflops said:


> It could have been 7 last night, but H totally turned me off so I ended it.


That sucks! What happened?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

flipflops said:


> I haven't had a night without kids in forever. I believe it was September 2007.


I know how you feel. We've had one night without kids since Sept. 1993. But it's quickly coming to an end. Not that that's going to change anything.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

flipflops said:


> He said something that totally turned me off, even after I asked him not to say it.


Ah, ok. That blows...


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> I know how you feel. We've had one night without kids since Sept. 1993. But it's quickly coming to an end. Not that that's going to change anything.


Having kids and seeing kids every day does not mean one iota that you skip on sex and intimacy with your long term relationship partner or wife.


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Having kids and seeing kids every day does not mean one iota that you skip on sex and intimacy with your long term relationship partner or wife.


I agree. But for someone that isn't into sex with the same frequency as you are, they may let the stress of the kids and tiredness carry over into the bedroom. I shouldn't be this way, but it seems to happen to alot of couples.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

TryingandFrustrated said:


> I agree. But for someone that isn't into sex with the same frequency as you are, they may let the stress of the kids and tiredness carry over into the bedroom. I shouldn't be this way, but it seems to happen to alot of couples.


Yes, I think this is true. An HD person will place sex high on their priority list while an LD person will allow other priorities and stress to interfere. It's just like anything else, if you don't really want to do it then you will ALLOW other things to get in the way.

Even as an HD person, children do have an impact. When I'm getting home late from taking them to their activities, making sure they get their homework done and lunches are prepared for the next day, get them settled down and put into bed and I haven't gotten the other things done that I need to get done, sometimes I might prefer just to go to bed when the day is done. That might be different if my wife also had a high sex drive ... making quickies a lot more likely ... but usually to even have a prayer of sex, she needs a longer start up time ... and sometimes with kids, you just don't have that time.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

7. Got woken up at 5:30 AM by cats fighting. Guess we celebrated the anniversary (tomorrow) early


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Same amount as at the very inception of this thread: _*Nada!*_

Ugly, contentious two-year-old separations and divorce proceedings will certainly do that for you!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

flipflops said:


> I'm so sorry, arbitrator.


Thanks, Flip! But looking at it on the bright side, STBXW and her BF seem to be greatly eclipsing my count by leaps and bounds, since we can't really bring up matters of infidelity in a "no-fault" divorce proceeding.

But much unlike her, I'd just rather choose to wait until such time that the marriage is legally dissolved and then become emotionally attached to someone new in my life!


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

+1, bringing us to "2" for the year so far.

Happened to take a day off work Monday, and as my wife finished submitting her final project for the semester on-line, I playfully initiated, and she complied (for just a quickie for me). Go figure.


I observed an hour or two later how it felt like a burden had been lifted from me. I am not so naive to think "problem solved." But, I allowed my self to have a spring in my step for a few hours any ways. 

What a way to live. (Not accepting it any longer.)


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Silly iPhone.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> I'm confident 6 will be it for a very long time, if not...probably for the rest of the year. I'm disgusted with H, have lost a ton of respect for him and have a feeling something is up...and not in a good way.


Yikes! What is this all about?


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Well my count is getting ready to go dormant for a while...I'm leaving my H and will be moving out in the next few weeks. He doesn't know yet. I'm not about to go hopping into bed with any old guy when the divorce is final...intimacy must be earned, I don't just give it away. On the other hand, I'm still young and I have a lot of sex to make up for. I almost feel sorry for the guy who I finally feel comfortable with pulling the trigger...I'm going to wear him out so much he's going to start hiding from me.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Well my count is getting ready to go dormant for a while...I'm leaving my H and will be moving out in the next few weeks. He doesn't know yet. I'm not about to go hopping into bed with any old guy when the divorce is final...intimacy must be earned, I don't just give it away. On the other hand, I'm still young and I have a lot of sex to make up for. I almost feel sorry for the guy who I finally feel comfortable with pulling the trigger...I'm going to wear him out so much he's going to start hiding from me.


Wow. Well, good for you for taking control of your life. Still, it is a difficult thing to do. A few years ago I separated from my wife. I set everything up ahead of time and planned for the day to tell her. It was very difficult. Hardest thing I ever did. I'll be thinking about you.

For the record, I do not feel sorry for whoever that guy is that wins your heart. That man should thank his lucky stars.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Wow. Well, good for you for taking control of your life. Still, it is a difficult thing to do. A few years ago I separated from my wife. I set everything up ahead of time and planned for the day to tell her. It was very difficult. Hardest thing I ever did. I'll be thinking about you.
> 
> For the record, I do not feel sorry for whoever that guy is that wins your heart. That man should thank his lucky stars.


It will undoubtedly be the hardest thing I've ever done in my life to date. I'm dreading the conversation...it will not go well. This is why I must do it and be strong and not look back. I can't imagine going through this and then getting back together, only to have to turn around and do it all over again because things are no better. As my counselor said, I need to rip the bandaid off quickly. 

LOL ok, I guess I won't feel too sorry for the next guy...but if I start finding him cowering in the closet at bedtime, I'll have to take that as a sign that he needs a break. Ok I'll give him ONE night off but the next night...back to work!! Haha!


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> For the record, I do not feel sorry for whoever that guy is that wins your heart. That man should thank his lucky stars.


And thank you for that. I've spent 19 years in a marriage where I have not felt very appreciated. That will be a new feeling to get used to.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> It will undoubtedly be the hardest thing I've ever done in my life to date. I'm dreading the conversation...it will not go well. This is why I must do it and be strong and not look back.* I can't imagine going through this and then getting back together, only to have to turn around and do it all over again because things are no better.* As my counselor said, I need to rip the bandaid off quickly.
> 
> LOL ok, I guess I won't feel too sorry for the next guy...but if I start finding him cowering in the closet at bedtime, I'll have to take that as a sign that he needs a break. Ok I'll give him ONE night off but the next night...back to work!! Haha!


Yeah, that is my situation. I will have to do it again, of that I am almost certain. I don't recommend it. I have a timetable that she isn't aware of and while I am still working hard to try to save the marriage, unless things change dramatically, I am not going to waiver from my timetable. The second time will not be as difficult and it will be final. Hate to be so cold and calculating about it but I've put so much into this with so little change that I just can't do it anymore. Having a plan helps me get through it.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Yeah, that is my situation. I will have to do it again, of that I am almost certain. I don't recommend it. I have a timetable that she isn't aware of and while I am still working hard to try to save the marriage, unless things change dramatically, I am not going to waiver from my timetable. The second time will not be as difficult and it will be final. *Hate to be so cold and calculating about it but I've put so much into this with so little change that I just can't do it anymore. Having a plan helps me get through it.*


That's exactly where I'm at. I feel like I've put so much into this and have been patient for so long, and nothing is any better. All I keep thinking is, if my marriage is EXACTLY the same in 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, or god forbid 20 years as it is now, is that acceptable? No. To my H, it would be. It's not for me, so I must cut my losses and move on. I have too much love for life and adventure and experiencing new things and being happy. And having mind-blowing sex. A lot.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I've spent 19 years in a marriage where I have not felt very appreciated.


Best of luck to you, Waking! If anyone truly had "license to cheat," then that might be you, after those truly terrible 19 years of unappreciation.

You are to be greatly commended in staying faithful to the marriage itself, rather than joining the cheaters club, as it is far more honorable to end a bad relationship first, prior to entering into yet another.

People in our shoes should greatly play by those rules much rather than deceptively seeking attention elsewhere while being a full partner in the marriage vows that they have taken!

And while I may well have a "zero" count for the last 2 years, it is byfar the more honorable thing to do, and unlike my STBXW, I don't regret it for one single moment!


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

All the best to you Waking, wishing you lots of strength and happiness to come.
IME it is a very painful time even though you are the one ending the marriage. I read a fantastic book "Spiritual Divorce" which helped me greatly (it talks about God yadda yadda, I am a heathen but still got heaps out of it.) It talks about taking responsibility for your part in the marriage and divorce. No matter what we think, there is always blame at our feet even if it was just allowing ourselves to be in that position in the first place.

The next while is your time, take care of yourself, be kind to yourself and remember to just keep breathing through it all. I had a huge amount of fallout that did not show it's ugly head until after the marriage ended, be prepared for the difficult path ahead of you. the pain of having suffered so much rejection does not disappear just because you end the marriage, in fact for me it got worse when I fell in love with Mr H. Anyway I won't go on, please feel free to PM if ever you want to chat to someone that has walked a mile in your shoes.

But the good news is that there is life after divorce and a sexless marriage. Stay strong and get all that you want out of life, I wish you well.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

Sometimes I think I am getting so little sex, that people can see it in my face!


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

flipflops said:


> I know I said I'd explain this morning, but it will have to wait. I'm going to do a couple things around the house this morning and then spend the rest of the day with my kiddos! I really don't want my mind on this crap when I'm out with them.


Happy Mother's Day! Enjoy your day! 

I have been following this thread for some time and look forward to your post. Hang in there!


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Well my count is getting ready to go dormant for a while...


LOL I just realized the silliness of this statement. As though my cumulative count wasn't already dormant! Haha! Ok I should've said "My cumulative count will remain at 3 for the year for the time being..."


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> LOL I just realized the silliness of this statement. As though my cumulative count wasn't already dormant! Haha! Ok I should've said "My cumulative count will remain at 3 for the year for the time being..."


Ha! I don't think that was lost on those of us who are also in sexless marriages 

Here's hoping 2014 brings you a much better year


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

8! Guess the anniversary made a difference for a weekend anyway!


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ha! I don't think that was lost on those of us who are also in sexless marriages
> 
> Here's hoping 2014 brings you a much better year


Thanks! I'll turn 40 next year, but I still feel as young and active and adventurous as ever. In fact, I have been told numerous times by people who don't know me that they thought I was in my early to mid 20s! I recently realized that an emotional need I have which has been sorely neglected is to feel sexy. It's not just about having sex. It's about feeling good about my sexuality, feeling like a beautiful and desired woman. I've done what I can to have this...I take good care of my health, I exercise, I eat decently, I dress well. But I don't feel sexy with my H. At all. He's so much bigger than me, he's not comfortable with his appearance so he doesn't like if I look too nice compared to him when we go out, he definitely doesn't make me feel feminine or sexy in the bedroom...his weight makes everything so awkward, the pure logistics of trying to have sex with someone literally 3 times bigger than me just kills it for me. (I'm really not near as shallow as this is making me sound. There are many, many other issues.)

So yes, here's to a much better year in 2014 (hopefully)!! I hope my 40s are the beginning of a LONG satisfying sex life...amongst many other things!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Thanks! I'll turn 40 next year, but I still feel as young and active and adventurous as ever. In fact, I have been told numerous times by people who don't know me that they thought I was in my early to mid 20s! I recently realized that an emotional need I have which has been sorely neglected is to feel sexy. It's not just about having sex. It's about feeling good about my sexuality, feeling like a beautiful and desired woman. I've done what I can to have this...I take good care of my health, I exercise, I eat decently, I dress well. But I don't feel sexy with my H. At all. He's so much bigger than me, he's not comfortable with his appearance so he doesn't like if I look too nice compared to him when we go out, he definitely doesn't make me feel feminine or sexy in the bedroom...his weight makes everything so awkward, the pure logistics of trying to have sex with someone literally 3 times bigger than me just kills it for me. (I'm really not near as shallow as this is making me sound. There are many, many other issues.)
> 
> So yes, here's to a much better year in 2014 (hopefully)!! I hope my 40s are the beginning of a LONG satisfying sex life...amongst many other things!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ha! Well, I'm 45 and I can tell you turning 40 was a bad time for me. I remember turning 43 and friend of mine a few years younger had just had a baby boy ... I told her I was a bit jealous because while I wouldn't trade my daughters for the world, I would have liked a boy too. She said, "well it's not too late for you!" I responded, "yeah it is ... I would need a willing partner (meaning my wife) ... who knew I would be celibate my entire 40s?" That was true and yet I was in peak condition and felt as good if not better than a decade earlier. I have so much life in front of me. Frustrating. Like you, few people can guess my age. I am not going to let the latter half of my 40's end up like the first half. Here's hoping this is the best decade of your life, carrying on for the rest of your life.

I also know about the mechanics of having sex with someone that big ... my wife is so large that normal sex is not possible for the most part. Her belly is like an enormous bowl of jello ... even traditional missionary went out the window as time went on. I mean really ... her stomach is bigger than an overweight woman bearing triplets at full term. We went out to dinner for mother's day tonight and I couldn't help but notice how much bigger she was than every woman in the restaurant. She HAS to do something about her weight and as much we've talked about that in terms of her health, she doesn't do anything .. I just don't understand it. I suppose taken out of context, it could come off as shallow or mean ... what isn't said is the effort, emotion and heartache that got us to this point. I don't wallow in her negative points or express them to others ... but this is a "safe" place.

EDIT: I was just thinking about my car. About 5 years ago, gas had hit around $4 a gallon in my area and I was driving so much I decided to trade in my pickup for a smaller car. She test drove it and I even had her sit in the back while I drove to make sure she was comfortable. She was an extremely large woman then so it was important to me she could use the car too. She rarely drives my car but needed to drive it a couple of weeks ago. She tried to get in and wouldn't fit. She had to put the seat all the way back and when she got in, the steering wheel still pressed against her stomach. Holy crap! That was an eye opener.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

I told my therapist that one of the biggest things I wish for sexually is what other people call boring or "vanilla": plain old missionary style. Sounds boring doesn't it? Well it's not to me, because its probably been at least 15 years since we've been able to do that, when my H got too big to do it. Literally he would crush me. But I crave it terribly...there's a certain level of connection and intimacy with that that you don't get with other positions. We're reduced to one position...for the past 15 years or so...me on top. I'm so sick of that I could scream. Side-by-side doesn't work. His belly gets in the way of "reaching" me. He can't hold any position requiring him to be on his knees, or any position requiring any physical endurance. So flat on his back it is. Sometimes I think he's just too lazy to try to do anything else. Ugh!! Just...ugh!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I told my therapist that one of the biggest things I wish for sexually is what other people call boring or "vanilla": plain old missionary style. Sounds boring doesn't it? Well it's not to me, because its probably been at least 15 years since we've been able to do that, when my H got too big to do it. Literally he would crush me. But I crave it terribly...there's a certain level of connection and intimacy with that that you don't get with other positions. We're reduced to one position...for the past 15 years or so...me on top. I'm so sick of that I could scream. Side-by-side doesn't work. His belly gets in the way of "reaching" me. He can't hold any position requiring him to be on his knees, or any position requiring any physical endurance. So flat on his back it is. Sometimes I think he's just too lazy to try to do anything else. Ugh!! Just...ugh!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly on point about missionary. I miss being able to look into her eyes, kiss her, kiss her neck and talk to her while we're having sex. Very intimate. 

So ... what is his problem then? All he has to do is lay there? Exactly how much energy does that take?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I told my therapist that one of the biggest things I wish for sexually is what other people call boring or "vanilla": plain old missionary style. Sounds boring doesn't it? Well it's not to me, because its probably been at least 15 years since we've been able to do that, when my H got too big to do it. Literally he would crush me. But I crave it terribly...there's a certain level of connection and intimacy with that that you don't get with other positions. We're reduced to one position...for the past 15 years or so...me on top. I'm so sick of that I could scream. Side-by-side doesn't work. His belly gets in the way of "reaching" me. He can't hold any position requiring him to be on his knees, or any position requiring any physical endurance. So flat on his back it is. Sometimes I think he's just too lazy to try to do anything else. Ugh!! Just...ugh!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I always wondered about the mechanics of that, lol! The parents of one of my best friends in high school fit that description. He was gigantic ... probably 6'5" and 400lbs (at least) and she was this small, petite woman ... I remember seriously wondering how that worked exactly thinking he would crush her. More seriously though ... he died in his 50's ... a combination of congestive heart failure and unmanaged diabetes.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Exactly on point about missionary. I miss being able to look into her eyes, kiss her, kiss her neck and talk to her while we're having sex. Very intimate.
> 
> So ... what is his problem then? All he has to do is lay there? Exactly how much energy does that take?


Very little, and I'm very turned off by always having to do all the work. I'm caught in an awkward situation as far as frequency. He only initiates about once every 6-8 weeks. I think he probably would want it a little more often if I pursued him. But I just don't feel attracted at all. The thought of me initiating sets in motion this train of thoughts: I initiate, he leaves his clothes on for as long as possible while he wants me completely undressed...he fumbles around with my body like a nervous teenager...he finally undresses from waist down (never takes his shirt off), lays on his back and says "come here". I climb on, barely get going when he clamps down on me because he's trying to make it last longer than 3 minutes...I get going again (still doing all the work), he stops me, repeat X 3-4 times, he can't hold on any longer and he's done. I've not even come close to coming close. I get up, clean up, hand him a washcloth while he collapses in bed as though he just ran a marathon. 

So I guess when I think of the invariable series of events as described above, it doesn't make me feel too "frisky" if you know what I mean. Sorry for the TMI.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Very little, and I'm very turned off by always having to do all the work. I'm caught in an awkward situation as far as frequency. He only initiates about once every 6-8 weeks. I think he probably would want it a little more often if I pursued him. But I just don't feel attracted at all. The thought of me initiating sets in motion this train of thoughts: I initiate, he leaves his clothes on for as long as possible while he wants me completely undressed...he fumbles around with my body like a nervous teenager...he finally undresses from waist down (never takes his shirt off), lays on his back and says "come here". I climb on, barely get going when he clamps down on me because he's trying to make it last longer than 3 minutes...I get going again (still doing all the work), he stops me, repeat X 3-4 times, he can't hold on any longer and he's done. I've not even come close to coming close. I get up, clean up, hand him a washcloth while he collapses in bed as though he just ran a marathon.
> 
> So I guess when I think of the invariable series of events as described above, it doesn't make me feel too "frisky" if you know what I mean. Sorry for the TMI.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That may just be the most unsexy description of sex I've ever heard. I mean ... what the heck is the point? It isn't TMI ... it says everything that needs to be said. That's not pornographic ... it's a horror movie.

EDIT: I don't think he's LD. I just think he is too overweight and out of shape. Same result.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Bahahaha!! A horror movie!! Well unfortunately I'm not exaggerating or leaving anything out in my description. That is EXACTLY how it goes EVERY SINGLE TIME. So yes I could have sex more than 3 times in 5 months, but as you said, what's the point? Again...ugh!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Bahahaha!! A horror movie!! Well unfortunately I'm not exaggerating or leaving anything out in my description. That is EXACTLY how it goes EVERY SINGLE TIME. So yes I could have sex more than 3 times in 5 months, but as you said, what's the point? Again...ugh!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ugh is right. If I was to make a movie and intentionally wanted to make a sex scene seem as unpalatable as possible, that would be it right there. I think you are exaggerating your number ... I don't think that qualifies. Yeesh. 

I don't mean to make light of your situation but your description sure adds clarity to what is going on. Unfortunately that means the end of a marriage and that is sad but there is only so much you can control. Any change is going to have to come from him.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ugh is right. If I was to make a movie and intentionally wanted to make a sex scene seem as unpalatable as possible, that would be it right there. I think you are exaggerating your number ... I don't think that qualifies. Yeesh.
> 
> I don't mean to make light of your situation but your description sure adds clarity to what is going on. Unfortunately that means the end of a marriage and that is sad but there is only so much you can control. Any change is going to have to come from him.


When you're telling your daughters about sex, tell them how I described it. That should scare them away from being tempted to do it while they're teenagers! LOL! 

And yes it is sad that I have to end my marriage to get my needs met. It's definitely not all about sex. There are many other issues like poor communication, his chronic depression, mismatch of desired lifestyles, his refusal to let me express my needs or opinions without turning them back on me telling me I'm wrong for feeling that way. I don't even feel free to be the real "me" around him. He pats me on the back in a condescending way if I laugh too loudly when we're with friends, as if to say "tone it down, you're acting like a fool". Always nagging me to find a different job, even though I like my job and I make more money than he does. So, so many ways I feel like I'm suffocating. I just know there's a happier life out there for me, whether I'm alone or if I find someone else eventually.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I think you are exaggerating your number ... I don't think that qualifies. Yeesh.


Well if that doesn't qualify, then I'm a 39 year old virgin! LOL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> When you're telling your daughters about sex, tell them how I described it. That should scare them away from being tempted to do it while they're teenagers! LOL!
> 
> And yes it is sad that I have to end my marriage to get my needs met. It's definitely not all about sex. There are many other issues like poor communication, his chronic depression, mismatch of desired lifestyles, his refusal to let me express my needs or opinions without turning them back on me telling me I'm wrong for feeling that way. I don't even feel free to be the real "me" around him. He pats me on the back in a condescending way if I laugh too loudly when we're with friends, as if to say "tone it down, you're acting like a fool". Always nagging me to find a different job, even though I like my job and I make more money than he does. So, so many ways I feel like I'm suffocating. I just know there's a happier life out there for me, whether I'm alone or if I find someone else eventually.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ha! Anything I tell them about sex right now would result in a collective "EWWW".

No, I know ... feel free to talk about the problems you are having, this is the place to do that, but please don't feel the need to justify yourself to me or anybody else. You are not wrong for feeling that way. It is never just about sex and it isn't in my case either. For me, while sex and intimacy (or lack of) is a problem, if that was our only problem, I probably wouldn't be here. 

Actually, several of those things are on my list too, particularly communication and mismatch of lifestyles. Depression has loomed a number of times in our marriage with devastating effects but fortunately she has that under control for the most part. That was really difficult, especially early in our marriage.

He pats you on the back, telling you to tone it down? Really? Aren't you supposed to be having fun with your friends? That would really piss me off. 

My MIL has at times told me I need to get a better job ... or more specifically one that pays more. Keep in mind that not only do I like the job I have, the company I work for and the people I work with but I make a very good living. I'm in information technology and it pays very well. What she wants me to do is to start consulting, which does have the potential to bring in even more money but it isn't the type of work I enjoy ... I like being personally invested in building a company and that's how I view my current job. That just really irritates me ... and if my wife, who should be on my team, said that then wow ... I'd have a real problem with that. To her credit, she has always supported me in my career. I can ignore my MIL, who is just short of crazy anyway, but that sounds very disrespectful coming from your husband.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

WUTL- that is horrible for you & I hope your future gets brighter. He sounds like a living masturbating machine for you & that is very hurtful. A lot of weight gain is a turn off so that is normal, he has to want to get in shape for himself, not just for you. He's a heart attack waiting to happen?


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

Waking up to life said:


> Very little, and I'm very turned off by always having to do all the work. I'm caught in an awkward situation as far as frequency. He only initiates about once every 6-8 weeks. I think he probably would want it a little more often if I pursued him. But I just don't feel attracted at all. The thought of me initiating sets in motion this train of thoughts: I initiate, he leaves his clothes on for as long as possible while he wants me completely undressed...he fumbles around with my body like a nervous teenager...he finally undresses from waist down (never takes his shirt off), lays on his back and says "come here". I climb on, barely get going when he clamps down on me because he's trying to make it last longer than 3 minutes...I get going again (still doing all the work), he stops me, repeat X 3-4 times, he can't hold on any longer and he's done. I've not even come close to coming close. I get up, clean up, hand him a washcloth while he collapses in bed as though he just ran a marathon.
> 
> So I guess when I think of the invariable series of events as described above, it doesn't make me feel too "frisky" if you know what I mean. Sorry for the TMI.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am so sorry to hear this and what you are going through. Your story brought to mind this old movie "Austin Powers - The Spy who shagged me". I hope it is not as bad as that. Anyway, I wish you well and hope the best for both of you....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

My cumulative count for 2013 is 3! First time for the year was March 7th, second being March 9th and third was this morning. Tried to seduce hubby in the evening by wearing super sexy Victoria secret lingerie but no reaction from him! Feeling confused and rejected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

Thunder, I have so been there with the lingerie, etc.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

ginger-snap said:


> Thunder, I have so been there with the lingerie, etc.


My wife got lingerie from her sister as a wedding shower gift. 

We celebrated our 1 year anniversary yesterday. 

Guess what has never been taken out of the box, or worn?

I'd kill to see her in it.


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> My wife got lingerie from her sister as a wedding shower gift.
> 
> We celebrated our 1 year anniversary yesterday.
> 
> ...


Have you asked her?


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> My wife got lingerie from her sister as a wedding shower gift.
> 
> We celebrated our 1 year anniversary yesterday.
> 
> ...


Did you tell her this?


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

LoriC said:


> Did you tell her this?


Many many many times.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> Many many many times.


Yikes, what is this about then? Pretty much no matter what my H asked of me I would be doing it to please him. What does she say when you ask her?


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

LoriC said:


> Yikes, what is this about then? Pretty much no matter what my H asked of me I would be doing it to please him. What does she say when you ask her?


"No, I'm so fat, I'd look disgusting, etc."

Note: Not once have I ever said anything to her about weight, or about not being attracted to her, or anything like that. Because her weight isn't an issue for me, and because I am absolutely attracted to her, and I make it known to her every day.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> "No, I'm so fat, I'd look disgusting, etc."
> 
> Note: Not once have I ever said anything to her about weight, or about not being attracted to her, or anything like that. Because her weight isn't an issue for me, and because I am absolutely attracted to her, and I make it known to her every day.


You remind me of my H, I am always going on about my weight. He married me 22 years ago at a size 8 and now im a 12. So to me I think I am huge. Not to him. He is still very attracted to me. I often joke with him and call him "Shallow Hal" Not sure if you saw that movie, very funny. It is because he doesnt see what I see.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

When I met her, she was about 125/130. Right now (after losing 15 lbs) she is 170. She was just as beautiful at 185 as she was at 125. I simply don't care. I love the woman, not the number on the scale.


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

I'm sorry ScubaSteve. Sad how we have such similar issues, but in reverse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> My cumulative count for 2013 is 3! First time for the year was March 7th, second being March 9th and third was this morning. Tried to seduce hubby in the evening by wearing super sexy Victoria secret lingerie but no reaction from him! Feeling confused and rejected.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sort of like? 

Does your husband have sleep apnea? That may explain the disinterest in the evening


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

> Pretty much no matter what my H asked of me I would be doing it to please him.


This statement always makes me sad when I see it. I am happy for the guy that is married to this woman, but that is something my wife would NEVER EVER state.


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

I could have said that statement. Always trying getting nowhere. Gotta change again..

Thunder. Didn't hubby want you to wear sexy stuff? And then you do and nothing.


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## Visual1 (Apr 16, 2013)

Another one for me today. I tried astroglide and it was much better than k-y. So, My total started counting in May is 2. I think I am gaining momentum


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

bbdad said:


> This statement always makes me sad when I see it. I am happy for the guy that is married to this woman, but that is something my wife would NEVER EVER state.


I am also very lucky as my H would do pretty much anything to please me.

I am sad for those who dont have this, IMO every married couple should be this way with each other. This is what makes and keeps a marriage strong.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

ALWAYS TRYING said:


> I could have said that statement. Always trying getting nowhere. Gotta change again..
> 
> Thunder. Didn't hubby want you to wear sexy stuff? And then you do and nothing.


Exactly! So discouraging 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> Many many many times.


Have you given her an ultimatum: if you are not going to put this on in the next 5 minutes and let me gaze upon your feminine beauty, then I will put it on me and we will see how good it looks on me!

Just be aware the wisdom around TAM is that for an ultimatum to be effective, you must be willing to follow through 

(Btw, I may or may not be really suggesting this -- but, if there's a chance it'd lighten the mood yet get your point across...)


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

I know there's not much in the way of lingerie for men, but...it would go a long way in the attraction issue to not see my H in 3X tighty whiteys 365 days a year. 

I LOVE to see guys who are trim and wear boxer briefs. (On underwear commercials  )


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I know there's not much in the way of lingerie for men, but...it would go a long way in the attraction issue to not see my H in 3X tighty whiteys 365 days a year.
> 
> I LOVE to see guys who are trim and wear boxer briefs. (On underwear commercials  )


lol

Well, it might help if my wife didn't wear a ratty 15 year old tent to go along with her lovely black, size 11 crocs with white socks ... 365 days a year. Her "nighty" is discolored from breast feeding our daughter ... who is now 11 years old. Many years ago when I envisioned what my life would be like, I never envisioned living with Roseanne.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

flipflops said:


> *Are you for real?* Oh good grief, JSGH! You need to *smack her back* into reality or leave. Nobody deserves that.


I'm for real! Not an exaggeration. Yuck.

... if she was into spanking, I wouldn't be here on TAM


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> lol
> 
> Well, it might help if my wife didn't wear a ratty 15 year old tent to go along with her lovely black, size 11 crocs with white socks ... 365 days a year. Her "nighty" is discolored from breast feeding our daughter ... who is now 11 years old. Many years ago when I envisioned what my life would be like, I never envisioned living with Roseanne.


Ok now that's just GROSS!! Really?? Does she have NO self respect? I breast milk stained night gown from 11 years ago? Wow...ok I won't feel too bad about my flannel PJ pants and tank tops.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> ... if she was into spanking, I wouldn't be here on TAM


Ooh she's missing out if she doesn't enjoy a little spanking once in a while. Now I just want to shake her and tell her to WAKE UP!!


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Ok now that's just GROSS!! Really?? *Does she have NO self respect?* I breast milk stained night gown from 11 years ago? Wow...ok I won't feel too bad about my flannel PJ pants and tank tops.


I don't even know what to say .... or where to start.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Ooh she's missing out if she doesn't enjoy a little spanking once in a while. Now I just want to shake her and tell her to WAKE UP!!


Please ... please ... SOMEBODY shake her and wake her up! 

Really, it's just too late.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

flipflops said:


> *I'm not into spanking *but you can be sure any breast milk stained items have been long gone by now. Actually, I don't think I had any. I'm really good with laundry. :smthumbup:


Aw, you're missing out too!


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I don't even know what to say .... or where to start.


Well she doesn't seem to have much self respect. Allowing herself to become morbidly obese to the point she can't even fit in your car anymore...til she has "cottage cheese" arms...wearing white socks with black Croc's , old stained up night gown. Never mind the fact that her weight is almost assuredly the reason she needs a cpap, and because she needs a cpap, she now sleeps in a separate bedroom. Also, from a post you made a while back, she allows the house to be a total mess.

Could she build any more walls around herself than she already has? I just can't relate, I guess...if I had a husband with a chiseled body, I'd take a sledge hammer to those figurative walls...lose weight, dress decently, start caring about my appearance, burn that nasty night gown (who needs ANY night gown if I could snuggle up with some nice strong arms around me?) 

Jeez, I miss that. I can't snuggle up to my H comfortably...his chest circumference makes it more like leaning my head against a round barrel rather than a nice firm chest...it hurts my neck. I guess we all take for granted things we don't even realize until we don't have them.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

It is probably mean but I laughed a little at this. 



JustSomeGuyWho said:


> lol
> 
> Well, it might help if my wife didn't wear a ratty 15 year old tent to go along with her lovely black, size 11 crocs with white socks ... 365 days a year. Her "nighty" is discolored from breast feeding our daughter ... who is now 11 years old. Many years ago when I envisioned what my life would be like, I never envisioned living with Roseanne.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

My wife and I were going along nicely at once a week (a major improvement) until she hit month 6 of pregnancy. That was about 5 weeks ago. Since then I've been relegated to handjobs because she feels gross and doesn't want to be touched sexually. Tonight a foot massage after dinner, folding two loads of laundry, giving our daughter a bath and buying groceries for the week got me an HJ. Better than nothing I guess but I was hoping for more. She swears that its all related to pregnancy. I'm not enjoying it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

jd08 said:


> My wife and I were going along nicely at once a week (a major improvement) until she hit month 6 of pregnancy. That was about 5 weeks ago. Since then I've been relegated to handjobs because she feels gross and doesn't want to be touched sexually. Tonight a foot massage after dinner, folding two loads of laundry, giving our daughter a bath and buying groceries for the week got me an HJ. Better than nothing I guess but I was hoping for more. She swears that its all related to pregnancy. I'm not enjoying it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just make sure you burn her night gowns when she is done breastfeeding.

You know, never in my 23 years of knowing my wife has she ever given me a handjob. People talk about their wives giving them a bj or hj when PIV isn't an option ... my wife never does that ... and I buy the groceries every week 

I am sure it is all related to the pregnancy. I know it sucks but give her some time. Is this your first child?


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

This is our 2nd. We have a 4 year old daughter. She did breastfeed last time but luckily threw the stained items away when she was done. 



JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Just make sure you burn her night gowns when she is done breastfeeding.
> 
> You know, never in my 23 years of knowing my wife has she ever given me a handjob. People talk about their wives giving them a bj or hj when PIV isn't an option ... my wife never does that ... and I buy the groceries every week
> 
> I am sure it is all related to the pregnancy. I know it sucks but give her some time. Is this your first child?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> You know, never in my 23 years of knowing my wife has she ever given me a handjob. People talk about their wives giving them a bj or hj when PIV isn't an option ... my wife never does that ... and I buy the groceries every week


JustSomeGuyWho....you should ask her for a handjob. They can be quite nice when Aunt Flo is visiting our house, or simply as variety to our current sex life. If she doesn't know how to do it, or she is not sure what you like, you might have to show her. That could turn into a nice evening for both of you!


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> You know, never in my 23 years of knowing my wife has she ever given me a handjob. People talk about their wives giving them a bj or hj when PIV isn't an option ... my wife never does that ... and I buy the groceries every week


WHAT?? OK where is she? I am really going to shake her now! JSGW - you are a very tolerant person. I don't think your wife realizes how much of this crap other men WOULDN'T put up with the way you do. She sounds like a decent woman all in all. I don't ever get the sense that she's cruel, hateful, nasty, or anything like that. But as my counselor said, we can all sit here and be glad for the things that our spouses are not, such as drug addicts, abusers, hanging out at strip clubs every night, gambling all our money away; but the fact that our spouses don't do all these bad things doesn't make them a perfect spouse...if they also lack in many of the positive things that are important to a marriage.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> WHAT?? OK where is she? I am really going to shake her now! JSGW - you are a very tolerant person. I don't think your wife realizes how much of this crap other men WOULDN'T put up with the way you do. She sounds like a decent woman all in all. I don't ever get the sense that she's cruel, hateful, nasty, or anything like that. But as my counselor said, we can all sit here and be glad for the things that our spouses are not, such as drug addicts, abusers, hanging out at strip clubs every night, gambling all our money away; but the fact that our spouses don't do all these bad things doesn't make them a perfect spouse...if they also lack in many of the positive things that are important to a marriage.


Ha! Well, she is a decent woman ... despite the grievances that I air out here, she is one of the most decent people I know. I think that along with my girls are the reason that I've tried so hard to make this work. I genuinely like her as a person as do most people who meet her. Some may think the lack of intimacy in our marriage is cruel, especially for an HD person like me, but she isn't cruel with intent. What I've come to accept though is that no matter what I think of her as a person, we may not be compatible as spouses. We may not be well suited to give what each other needs. I'm ok with that now and that is a heart to heart discussion I've had with her. There are two things really that I think are missing that I require in a marriage and that is communication and physical intimacy. Those are things I am focused on trying to resolve but I strongly suspect we will never be on the same page. I haven't been willing to accept that failure until recently. I think we can be good friends and co-parents but we don't meet each others needs as a marital couple.

I have a good friend at work that I was able to confide in leading up to my separation a few years ago. My wife at that time was riding the crazy train. Lack of physical intimacy was the least of our problems. He gave me a lot of valuable feedback but felt that I really needed to divorce. In fact, his wife was already trying to line people up for me, ha!. It was advice that was easy for him to give; his parents had divorced and he was thankful that they did because they both found far healthier relationships after the divorce. It almost came to that but I realize now that I was not ready to concede yet ... not like I am now. He had made a comment that stuck with me ... he said something along the lines of ... "you know, throughout all this you've never really said anything bad about her (meaning as a person) and you've said many times that I would really like her and I know I would, but that does not mean that she is right for you and it does not mean you should feel guilty about wanting something better for you and your children." It was similar to what you are saying. I needed to hear that then and I need to hear that now. So, thank you.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho - does your wife know that you have an internal deadline and very unhappy in your marriage? Maybe she needs to know so that she can do something about it. I feel that yours is not a lost cause...... because both of you are good people, and you have stuck by her all these years. Have you tried marriage counseling?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> JustSomeGuyWho - does your wife know that you have an internal deadline and very unhappy in your marriage? Maybe she needs to know so that she can do something about it. I feel that yours is not a lost cause...... because both of you are good people, and you have stuck by her all these years. Have you tried marriage counseling?


She knows that I am unhappy. She knows that I have accepted and am prepared to divorce her if things do not change. I've identified what needs to change and we've talked about what WE need to do as a couple to change those things. She doesn't know that I have a timeline. I don't think giving her a timeline is going to do anything other than cause her to give up and shut down. I am working hard on communicating these things with her and have had frequent conversations with her about our marriage ... and will continue to do that. The thing is, I don't know how having good intentions leads to better communication or intimacy (or sex) ... especially when we've struggled with that throughout our marriage. I don't need it to be ideal in order for it to represent change ... I just need progress that represents hope ... because right now if I stay in our marriage as it is, we will be roommates without any real emotional and physical connection that comes from communication and intimacy. I'm giving it everything I have.

It isn't all about sex but this thread in particular is about cumulative counts ... I fear I will be reporting 3 or 4 encounters a year for the next 20 years; a total already surpassed by many here in this year alone. I don't know about you but the prospect of living without intimacy for the rest of my life is not a happy thought


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JSGW - I have grappled with this issue of "acceptable" or "tolerable" marriage vs great, happy, fulfilling marriage. My H has Bipolar 2, so he's very moody. Some days he is super nice and seems interested in me and treats me like a respected equal. Those days, bad sex aside, I think "This isn't so bad. It's not super, but it's not miserable." 

Then there are days like yesterday where I worked an 11 hour day after only 3 hours of sleep because I was up helping him with his foot pain...I came home and cooked a great from scratch baked ziti dinner, folded laundry, did dishes, made coffee, propped his feet up on pillows, brought him ice packs for his feet...collapsed on the couch at 10:30 PM only to be b*tched at about my long hours at work and not being home enough to help him since his feet hurt. His attitude was clearly sh*tty...I'm not imagining his intent of trying to guilt me. 

Now today he's back to nicey nice, asking how my day was, saying how delicious dinner was, etc. I can't take the constant feeling of being devalued one day and being chatted at all buddy-buddy the next day. Yes he's not taking drugs, he doesn't drink, he doesn't go to bars, he doesn't get in trouble with the law...but let me tell you what else he doesn't do: he doesn't treat me lovingly, he doesn't treat me as an equal, responsible, and intelligent partner, he doesn't let me express any "negative" emotions like anger or sadness...he can't handle me being anything but happy - he literally tells me how to feel "Don't be mad! Don't be grumpy! Don't be b*tchy! Be happy! You should smile more." And...last but not least, he doesn't meet my needs sexually and he doesn't want to put any effort into even understanding what I need. 

So...if I could be ok with living with a moody sexless roommate, sure, I could make this marriage work. He's not beating me or abandoning me...yes I COULD survive staying married. But I want so much more than surviving and getting by. I'm tired of thinking "someday" things will get better and we'll finally connect and bond emotionally. But after 19 years, if that hasn't happened yet, it isn't going to.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

" he doesn't treat me as an equal, responsible, and intelligent partner"

That does not a marriage make. 

I've always believed the grass isn't always greener on the other side ... it is greener where you water it ... but if you live in the desert, is it worth the effort?


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

It's interesting that you being up the desert...because one complaint about me that my H made in one of the two MC sessions he went to was that I'm not affectionate enough to him. He says I'm like a cactus...cold and prickly. It's true I'm not super affectionate towards him anymore. I used to be. I used to try to hug him but would always feel like I was hugging a statue...hugging him around his belly, his arms around my shoulders, his back stiff, never bending down to really hug me (I'm really short). But more so, I don't feel so affectionate after being told I'm "lazy" for wanting to sleep in a bit on Saturday mornings, that I put too much importance in my job than what it's worth (I make more money than he does), that I'm "never satisfied" when I bring up wanting to move out of this trailer after 19 years, that I'm not allowed to EVER discuss things with him that have been hurtful to me because I'm "always holding grudges"...I could go on and on. After daily little jabs at my self-worth, too many to recount and many that probably fly under my conscious radar, no...I don't feel like being all lovey-dovey huggy-kissy with a scorpion. I think the desert analogy fits well here.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> It's interesting that you being up the desert...because one complaint about me that my H made in one of the two MC sessions he went to was that I'm not affectionate enough to him. He says I'm like a cactus...cold and prickly. It's true I'm not super affectionate towards him anymore. I used to be. I used to try to hug him but would always feel like I was hugging a statue...hugging him around his belly, his arms around my shoulders, his back stiff, never bending down to really hug me (I'm really short). But more so, I don't feel so affectionate after being told I'm "lazy" for wanting to sleep in a bit on Saturday mornings, that I put too much importance in my job than what it's worth (I make more money than he does), that I'm "never satisfied" when I bring up wanting to move out of this trailer after 19 years, that I'm not allowed to EVER discuss things with him that have been hurtful to me because I'm "always holding grudges"...I could go on and on. After daily little jabs at my self-worth, too many to recount and many that probably fly under my conscious radar, no...I don't feel like being all lovey-dovey huggy-kissy with a scorpion. I think the desert analogy fits well here.


Ok, but your reaction ... less affectionate ... is a symptom of bigger problems. Fix the bigger issues and surely he should know the affection can come back. Clearly his lack of respect is a big one for you and that is completely understandable. That is a deal-breaker in my mind. Why did he only go to two MC sessions? 

Still don't get the trailer thing ... you're an intelligent person and surely by now would either rent or own a home if you were on your own. Why is he hung up on living in a trailer? Even a small home on some land would be preferable and depending on where you live, not all that expensive.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> It's interesting that you being up the desert...because one complaint about me that my H made in one of the two MC sessions he went to was that I'm not affectionate enough to him. He says I'm like a cactus...cold and prickly. It's true I'm not super affectionate towards him anymore. I used to be. I used to try to hug him but would always feel like I was hugging a statue...hugging him around his belly, his arms around my shoulders, his back stiff, never bending down to really hug me (I'm really short). But more so, I don't feel so affectionate after being told I'm "lazy" for wanting to sleep in a bit on Saturday mornings, that I put too much importance in my job than what it's worth (I make more money than he does), that I'm "never satisfied" when I bring up wanting to move out of this trailer after 19 years, that I'm not allowed to EVER discuss things with him that have been hurtful to me because I'm "always holding grudges"...I could go on and on. After daily little jabs at my self-worth, too many to recount and many that probably fly under my conscious radar, no...I don't feel like being all lovey-dovey huggy-kissy with a scorpion. I think the desert analogy fits well here.


I guess my question is ... how can he expect you to be affectionate and loving when he constantly invalidates you, the person he loves, through his words?

I have to admit that the one thing that bothers me the most about living in a sexless marriage is that I feel invalidated. It isn't that I seek validation through sex ... I am the same man with strengths and flaws with or without sex in my life ... but I do feel invalidated by not having what is a normal part of a healthy relationship. Maybe that thinking is wrong-headed ... I shouldn't allow that to affect me because I know that it is unimportant to her; she does not have a lack of interest or it is low in importance in her priority list because I am somehow less valid as a man ... and yet ....


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Ok, but your reaction ... less affectionate ... is a symptom of bigger problems. Fix the bigger issues and surely he should know the affection can come back. Clearly his lack of respect is a big one for you and that is completely understandable. That is a deal-breaker in my mind. Why did he only go to two MC sessions?
> 
> Still don't get the trailer thing ... you're an intelligent person and surely by now would either rent or own a home if you were on your own. Why is he hung up on living in a trailer? Even a small home on some land would be preferable and depending on where you live, not all that expensive.


Why did he only go to 2 sessions? The short answer is that he felt the counselor was useless and it's all a bunch of 'psychobabble'. Here's the long answer to that question: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...793-waking-up-lifes-update-4.html#post1492494

Why is he stuck on the trailer? He's so comforted by routine, he's not a risk taker, not ambitious, so the idea of moving is completely overwhelming to him. Even if I said I'd do all the work to sell our trailer and find a new home, he always comes up with excuses why we can't. His favorite is that I'm being materialistic and unrealistic about having a nicer home. He says it makes him feel like he's "not a good provider" when I ask about us moving, that I'm never happy with what I have. I say to that: I make more money than he does, and we CAN afford it, and so it's NOT about me saying he's not a good provider...it's me wanting a REAL house for the first time in our marriage. I keep my house very clean and it looks decent and not cluttery, etc. But it's still a trailer, and it's small, and there's a social stigma about being "trailer trash", and on and on. Ugh! I could go on, but my leaving him is not only due to our dysfunctional relationship, but also because I vowed to myself that by the end of 2013, I would NOT still be living in this trailer. I have a right to choose what kind of home I want to live in, and I can't stand to live here anymore. It was fine when we were first married and getting established, but 19 years later...why am I still here?


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I guess my question is ... how can he expect you to be affectionate and loving when he constantly invalidates you, the person he loves, through his words?
> 
> I have to admit that the one thing that bothers me the most about living in a sexless marriage is that I feel invalidated. It isn't that I seek validation through sex ... I am the same man with strengths and flaws with or without sex in my life ... but I do feel invalidated by not having what is a normal part of a healthy relationship. Maybe that thinking is wrong-headed ... I shouldn't allow that to affect me because I know that it is unimportant to her; she does not have a lack of interest or it is low in importance in her priority list because I am somehow less valid as a man ... and yet ....


There definitely is something to being validated through your intimacy with your spouse. As I mentioned before, I'm in good shape, petite, and athletic...I feel good about myself because I take good care of myself, but...paired with a husband who is the opposite and who doesn't make me feel loved, cared for, attractive, wanted, it DOES make me feel invalidated in some ways. Like I'm not important enough to him to make an effort to keep himself in better health, to want to keep doing fun things with me, to look good together as a couple, to make the most of having a "hot wife" who would be game for about anything in the bedroom if he was physically able to keep up.

Be careful about the word "should"...who says you should or shouldn't feel a certain way? The facts are, you DO feel how you feel. That was one point my therapist impressed on me early on. He asked if I wanted to keep trying to save my marriage. I said I didn't know anymore, but I "should want to" and I felt guilty. He reminded me that working in "shoulds" doesn't usually accomplish much except create confusion within our minds. Deal with what IS, not what you think SHOULD be.


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## norway (May 15, 2013)

At 1 for the year.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

norway said:


> At 1 for the year.


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

flipflops said:


> So... I found an apartment and put my deposit down. The kids are done school soon and I'll be moved out within a month. It's sad but I feel good about it, too.


What happened flipflops? I thought things were improving, and then suddenly......


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Lots of strength to you flipflops


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

Oh flip flops. Sorry sweetie. We are here to listen. 
Big hugs


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Best of wishes on your new start & sorry things didn't work out like you had hoped. Isn't H showing any last minute desperation to hold on to you??


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## LB (May 16, 2013)

Anyone have an acutal idea of what is the acceptable amount of times to actually have sex in a week (married couples)?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

LinziB said:


> Anyone have an acutal idea of what is the acceptable amount of times to actually have sex in a week (married couples)?


Are you looking for the minimum you can get away with or are you looking for the most you can reasonably ask for?

It's different for everyone. For me, I'm happy with 3-4 times a week. Currently at 1-2 times and feeling unsatisfied.


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## LB (May 16, 2013)

Not really looking for minimum just trying to get and idea what most people feel is normal I know its a difficult thing to normalise but I suppose I can try. 

We also probably sitting somewhere close to 1-3 at the moment. This past 2 weeks nothing cause we in the middle of a big argument 
But used to be around 4-5 but still seemed like hubby wasn't happy with 4-5 so now not sure 
He says I should find it a compliment that he can't get enough of me and still wants to have sex so often after 15 years together . . .


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

LinziB said:


> Anyone have an acutal idea of what is the acceptable amount of times to actually have sex in a week (married couples)?


Professionally speaking, therapists and experts say that anything less than once a week will cause some emotional separation. Frequency beyond that is up to the individuals and their sex drives, some need more, some are happy with less.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

flipflops said:


> In the end, I hope this is the wake up call H needs. I so want my marriage to work. I really do. I had been planning this for several months with his knowledge. He has done many things to get me to stay. He has done things I've asked him for over a decade to do. I love that he's done all of those things, but I cannot handle the mind games. The one thing he has not done is make me a priority in his life. I don't expect his world to revolve completely around me, but I do expect more. Yes, he knows that. It's been something I've complained about for nearly all of our marriage. I'm to blame for putting up with it, but I'm done with that crap. I've been putting my foot down and H does not like it. He doesn't like that I'm sticking up for myself. So, in the end, this is the best choice for me. The kids are looking forward to it, too. They see how much happier I am when he's not around.


After you leave, have you and your H set up any communication guidelines or is it just "play it by ear" and see what happens?? Do you have any shared financial obligations or are you getting a clean break? I assume no divorce filiings since you still want things to work out?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Are you looking for the minimum you can get away with or are you looking for the most you can reasonably ask for?
> 
> It's different for everyone. For me, I'm happy with 3-4 times a week. Currently at 1-2 times and feeling unsatisfied.


Go down to zero times a week for a year and come back into it at a solid 2 times a week, you will feel incredible at that sex rate. There are people on this message board who have gone 180 days to several years without any sex and some without any sex or outward affection at all.....


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Go down to zero times a week for a year and come back into it at a solid 2 times a week, you will feel incredible at that sex rate. There are people on this message board who have gone 180 days to several years without any sex and some without any sex or outward affection at all.....


That's me you are talking about! No sex while pregnant and continuing for 2 years after each child was born.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> That's me you are talking about! No sex while pregnant and continuing for 2 years after each child was born.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The husband starved you?


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

treyvion said:


> The husband starved you?


Yes.,,, he has apologized for that but now I never initiate any intimacy with him. We go through the same vicious cycle of me threatening divorce for a sexless marriage, him saying sorry and having sex regularly for one week, and then months of no sex. Then my resentment builds and it starts all over again. But yup we did not have sex once I was pregnant and a long time after the kids were born as he told me that me being pregnant and later breast feeding was a turn off for him. I really hate him when I look back. My kids are now teenagers and my cumulative count for this year is 3!!!! Not pregnant or breastfeeding for sure but still in sexless marriage. All 3 times scored the week before. He hasn't initiated this entire week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ThunderatMidnight said:


> Yes.,,, he has apologized for that but now I never initiate any intimacy with him. We go through the same vicious cycle of me threatening divorce for a sexless marriage, him saying sorry and having sex regularly for one week, and then months of no sex. Then my resentment builds and it starts all over again. But yup we did not have sex once I was pregnant and a long time after the kids were born as he told me that me being pregnant and later breast feeding was a turn off for him. I really hate him when I look back. My kids are now teenagers and my cumulative count for this year is 3!!!! Not pregnant or breastfeeding for sure but still in sexless marriage. All 3 times scored the week before. He hasn't initiated this entire week.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry Thunder. Even though I'm only sitting at 2, it is hard to imagine a man not wanting to initiate sex unless something significant was going on. You are fit and attractive from what I remember you saying ... boggles the mind.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Sorry Thunder. Even though I'm only sitting at 2, it is hard to imagine a man not wanting to initiate sex unless something significant was going on. You are fit and attractive from what I remember you saying ... boggles the mind.


This makes me wonder if fit and attractive women are a turn off for some men?? What is wrong with them? Perhaps I should trade my Insanity DVDs in for soap operas and buy moo-moos instead of Under Armour shorts and sports bras...buy Oreo's by the case to eat while I'm watching my soaps and gain about 75 lbs...maybe my H would be all over me.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> This makes me wonder if fit and attractive women are a turn off for some men?? What is wrong with them? Perhaps I should trade my Insanity DVDs in for soap operas and buy moo-moos instead of Under Armour shorts and sports bras...buy Oreo's by the case to eat while I'm watching my soaps and gain about 75 lbs...maybe my H would be all over me.


Ha! Yeah, please don't ...


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## Visual1 (Apr 16, 2013)

Another one last night. She told me that she did not want any foreplay. So I put some astroglide on and did it. Duty sex maybe? But I take what she gives. So my total count starting in May is 3.


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## RickyC (Apr 26, 2013)

We are still at only 2 for the year. About 4 last year and maybe 3-4 the previous years prior... What a joke. Sex is only one part of the whole problem but it is a problem. She doesnt initiate it, she doesnt seem to enjoy it, she doesnt want it, she refuses to seek any help for it and so on. At 49, I have many good years left. My sex drive is that same as it was in my 20s. (I think an inherited thing). I am now growing on in some damn rocking chair counting how many doctor visits I have to go. I told her a few months ago, after 19 years and two kids, things have to change or I am gone. I have tried -- really tried. The stress of all this (and of not really having the sexual release that helps to relive the tension of everyday life) has caused a lot of anxiety. I went to a therapist to get some medication, kind of told him what was going on. He told me flat out -- there is no connection with this person anymore, hire a lawyer and plan of moving out. He didnt even think marriage counseling would be of any good. WOW. I dont know if I was schocked because he said it or because it is what I have been thinking for years -- but never said it. We have no real physical/sexual connection or any other kind, its true. What little we had when I was married is gone. Even when opportunity arises to have sex, theres an excuse or errand. I know why men have affairs now. I have been faithful but damn it, I am not living in this kind of relationship the rest of my life. I am at the point know that if I had a chance for a "quickie" with someone -- I'd be all over it. What does that say about the marriage???


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

RickyC said:


> We are still at only 2 for the year. About 4 last year and maybe 3-4 the previous years prior... What a joke. Sex is only one part of the whole problem but it is a problem. She doesnt initiate it, she doesnt seem to enjoy it, she doesnt want it, she refuses to seek any help for it and so on. At 49, I have many good years left. My sex drive is that same as it was in my 20s. (I think an inherited thing). I am now growing on in some damn rocking chair counting how many doctor visits I have to go. I told her a few months ago, after 19 years and two kids, things have to change or I am gone. I have tried -- really tried. The stress of all this (and of not really having the sexual release that helps to relive the tension of everyday life) has caused a lot of anxiety. I went to a therapist to get some medication, kind of told him what was going on. He told me flat out -- there is no connection with this person anymore, hire a lawyer and plan of moving out. He didnt even think marriage counseling would be of any good. WOW. I dont know if I was schocked because he said it or because it is what I have been thinking for years -- but never said it. We have no real physical/sexual connection or any other kind, its true. What little we had when I was married is gone. Even when opportunity arises to have sex, theres an excuse or errand. I know why men have affairs now. I have been faithful but damn it, I am not living in this kind of relationship the rest of my life. I am at the point know that if I had a chance for a "quickie" with someone -- I'd be all over it. What does that say about the marriage???


Stop crying. Its not good for you to think this, but I know its almost impossible cause its in your face daily. I don't know if you did your MAP yet. Its a great thing to do and it has to be done anyway. Focus on yourself right now like a selfish career dude. She may get drawn back in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I started tracking my wife's cycles in February on an app. It helping me keep up with when we have sex and when she ovulates. I'm at 40 for the year with only 2 with her having orgasms and I think she faked 1 of those. She's just not into it.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

At least your at fourty for the year. If its not torture for her then its better than nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThunderatMidnight (May 2, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Sorry Thunder. Even though I'm only sitting at 2, it is hard to imagine a man not wanting to initiate sex unless something significant was going on. You are fit and attractive from what I remember you saying ... boggles the mind.


I have asked my husband many times to give me a reason for not wanting sex but he says he does not know. He just does not have the urge. That is why it is so frustrating. He will be going for a testosterone check on 6 June and I hope to get some answers.

Last night he initiated after a one week hiatus and you could tell that he was doing it out of duty. Every time he has sex with me, I thank him. He always replies "you're welcome" reinforcing the fact that he was only doing it as a favor. I think he needs a big punch from all the husbands out here who are not getting any!


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I hope you get answers and he is willing to follow through. Mine has an endo appt June 1st. I told him I don't know how much more rejection I can take.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

My H saw an endo and was tested for low-T. It is low...actually about 150-200 points below the low normal range. But he doesn't care...he doesn't think it's worth treating...doesn't see what it matters. And he said using a gel every day is "stupid". And having to get injections is "stupid". So his "stupid" low-T remains untreated.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I'm sorry. Have you gone to MC at all?


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

diwali123 said:


> I'm sorry. Have you gone to MC at all?


Oh yes. Tried anyway. He went twice then refused to go anymore. I have continued to go to IC unbeknownst to him. He refuses to "let" me go (he thinks). Long story, but if you want to read it, it's all right here. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/65793-waking-up-lifes-update.html


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Just figured out my count so far this year is 18.

At this rate we're on track for maybe 44 times this year as compared to 52 times in 2012. This is after the long heart to heart talk we had back in February! Alot of good that did but I knew that it would probably fall back to where it is

To be honest, I am much less angry and resentful than I used to be even a year ago. The honest truth is that I am now losing interest after almost 28 years of marriage. How sad is that?


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

I think my count is at around 85. I will make absolutely sure this count continues to grow and not taper off. Every day we work on us! We have made our marriage a priority and I have never been happier in my 22 years of marriage.


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

6 times since the January 1st, been married 3 years now, the once a month routine started a few months before we got married.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Toshiba2020 said:


> 6 times since the January 1st, been married 3 years now, the once a month routine started a few months before we got married.


This is not good so early in the marriage. Is this mutually agreeable to you both?


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

LoriC said:


> This is not good so early in the marriage. Is this mutually agreeable to you both?


No, i would do it every day if i could but would be willing to compromise on once a week. She is just rarely in the mood, the first year or two i would make a fuss and have a talk with her about my needs and she would say she understood, make up some lame excuse about being busy, stressed, tired, etc…and claim she would try harder in the future, but the weeks would go by with no change.

It just got to be so ridiculous that it required a multi-hour long conversation ever month to remind her that married couples are supposed to have sex. But In the past year i just stopped caring, if it happens great, if not ill find other things to occupy my time. I know this will not solve the problem but ive tried everything I can think of and at this point im sick of begging and im just focusing on being positive and happy with myself.

If youre bored you can read my original post from over a year ago. Not much has changed since then really...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/41086-newlywed-desperate-help.html


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Toshiba2020 said:


> No, i would do it every day if i could but would be willing to compromise on once a week. She is just rarely in the mood, the first year or two i would make a fuss and have a talk with her about my needs and she would say she understood, make up some lame excuse about being busy, stressed, tired, etc…and claim she would try harder in the future, but the weeks would go by with no change.
> 
> It just got to be so ridiculous that it required a multi-hour long conversation ever month to remind her that married couples are supposed to have sex. But In the past year i just stopped caring, if it happens great, if not ill find other things to occupy my time. I know this will not solve the problem but ive tried everything I can think of and at this point im sick of begging and im just focusing on being positive and happy with myself.
> 
> ...


Ok, guess I was bored enough, I read your post. I fear you are in for a world of unhappiness if you allow this to continue. Her behaviour is disgusting in my opinion. This kind of detachment usually happens after a married couple has been together for a number of years with young kids. You should not settle for this kind of life at your young age. However, I dont know what your dealbreaker is. 

I had reached a point in my marriage (after 21 years) that I was no longer going to put up with it, but that didnt come until after I had an EA. I was ready to D. I was lucky enough to have a H that desperately wanted to save our marriage. 

You have to ask your wife only one question. "Are you willing to do anything to save this marriage?" If she answers yes than there is hope but definitely not with out MC. If she says no, cut your losses and get out now. Do NOT bring kids into this whatever you do. 

With the detachment you are describing there is most certainly an affair on the horizon. All the signs are there. She needs to put you first not her family. You sound like a nice easy going guy, toughen up and start making some demands. 

Your story is very sad because you are still so newly married. This is not looking good from where I am sitting. I talk from experience here, fix this now or split and find a partner that will make you happy. Life is too damn short for this crap!


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## RickyC (Apr 26, 2013)

I am getting more frustrated as each day goes on. My count is till about 2-3 for the year (1 complete!). Averaged 4-5 per year the last 4-5 years. Started marrigae counseling as a last ditch, but this doesnt even really seem to get through to her. She has depression but it seems to only come out when we start talking about issues...


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Toshiba2020 said:


> 6 times since the January 1st, been married 3 years now, the once a month routine started a few months before we got married.


*If I only had three invested I'd be gone by now

You're a freaking saint*


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

We are at 11 for the year. It's a big improvement over the past few years. May alone was 4 times. If I can get us to 4x per month steadily and perhaps see improvement beyond that, I would be quite pleased. Not every time was good, but you fall out of practice after awhile, just like with anything. I have some hope again. I can relate to all other frustrated wives whose husbands just don't feel like it and/or seem too lazy to try. It's heartbreaking to feel undesirable. For the record, without knowing about it, I started a sort of 180 type effort before I found this site. I've lost some weight, started doing things I like on my own, etc. It did seem to wake him up a little. I continue to try to improve my happiness separately from him, and consequently I seem to be happier around him which also probably helps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

LoriC said:


> Ok, guess I was bored enough, I read your post. I fear you are in for a world of unhappiness if you allow this to continue. Her behaviour is disgusting in my opinion. This kind of detachment usually happens after a married couple has been together for a number of years with young kids. You should not settle for this kind of life at your young age. However, I dont know what your dealbreaker is.
> 
> I had reached a point in my marriage (after 21 years) that I was no longer going to put up with it, but that didnt come until after I had an EA. I was ready to D. I was lucky enough to have a H that desperately wanted to save our marriage.
> 
> ...


That was quite a long read im sure haha.

Even though we fight a lot and there is no passion left we do still have a lot in common and have known each other for 7 years, I don’t want to throw all that away but her refusal to compromise with me on my needs is a deal breaker (I feel ive given in to all of her needs), I feel she knows it but her excuses aren’t holding up. For example she blamed her lack of desire on her birth control for the longest time, The Dr. recommended she stopped taking it, that didn’t help, then she started another low dosage pill and that didn’t change anything either, the Dr said physically she is fine and her lack of desire is probably emotional/stress related, but she refuses to see a therapist or go to MC.

I am at a loss on what to do, I guess that’s why I havent done anything in over a year. I try to stay happy and positive despite the situation in hopes that it will rub off on our marriage. But time is not on my side anymore, im no longer in my mid 20s fresh out of college with plenty of time to figure life out, the big 30 is fast approaching and our 3rd anniversary is coming up soon, I feel ive given the marriage my best shot but at some point its time to be realistic. My brain knows all the facts, the obvious symptoms of an unhealthy marriage, that statistically my marriage will fail if I continue down this path, but the heart keeps saying “give it one more month, im sure she will come around eventually” ...if i listened to my brain in the first place i would have called of the engagement a few months prior to the wedding when issues first appeared.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Toffer said:


> Just figured out my count so far this year is 18.
> 
> At this rate we're on track for maybe 44 times this year as compared to 52 times in 2012. This is after the long heart to heart talk we had back in February! Alot of good that did but I knew that it would probably fall back to where it is
> 
> *To be honest, I am much less angry and resentful than I used to be even a year ago. The honest truth is that I am now losing interest after almost 28 years of marriage. How sad is that?*


Ha! I sometimes wonder ... only semi-seriously - if this is my wife's strategy ... stall and delay on having sex until I'm too darn old to give a crap.

We'll see if MY heart-to-heart will work - so far 2 for the year, 1 pre-talk and 1 post-talk.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Toshiba2020 said:


> That was quite a long read im sure haha.
> 
> Even though we fight a lot and there is no passion left we do still have a lot in common and have known each other for 7 years, I don’t want to throw all that away but her refusal to compromise with me on my needs is a deal breaker (I feel ive given in to all of her needs), I feel she knows it but her excuses aren’t holding up. For example she blamed her lack of desire on her birth control for the longest time, The Dr. recommended she stopped taking it, that didn’t help, then she started another low dosage pill and that didn’t change anything either, the Dr said physically she is fine and her lack of desire is probably emotional/stress related, but she refuses to see a therapist or go to MC.
> 
> I am at a loss on what to do, I guess that’s why I havent done anything in over a year. I try to stay happy and positive despite the situation in hopes that it will rub off on our marriage. But time is not on my side anymore, im no longer in my mid 20s fresh out of college with plenty of time to figure life out, the big 30 is fast approaching and our 3rd anniversary is coming up soon, I feel ive given the marriage my best shot but at some point its time to be realistic. My brain knows all the facts, the obvious symptoms of an unhealthy marriage, that statistically my marriage will fail if I continue down this path, but the heart keeps saying “give it one more month, im sure she will come around eventually” ...if i listened to my brain in the first place i would have called of the engagement a few months prior to the wedding when issues first appeared.


Sounds like you may have a plan which is good. You are not in denial which is also good. Seriously if she is not willing to do anything to make this work than you really do have your answer. 

Have you asked her if she is willing to read a book or two in the hopes of improving your marriage. My H and I did and I can't tell you how helpful this was! If she is let me know and I would be happy to give you suggestions. Specifically to help you both understand each others needs and how to go about meeting them.

As you know already if you are not meeting those needs is when detachment happens and the marriage fails.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Toffer wrote, (I think) 

Just figured out my count so far this year is 18.

At this rate we're on track for maybe 44 times this year as compared to 52 times in 2012. This is after the long heart to heart talk we had back in February! Alot of good that did but I knew that it would probably fall back to where it is.

I don't know Toffer, I am usually with the men, but calculating expected yield and providing year to date comparisons seems unusually business-like and unromantic. I don't see her like a sales executive suddenly running out (or laying down) to match last year's numbers. Can you go a cruise or vacation. In any case, I'd soft-pedal the yield calculations.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> 8! Guess the anniversary made a difference for a weekend anyway!


9! She started a romance novel. I don't care what puts her in the mood as long as its me that gets to reap the love making and cuddling after benefits.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> 9! She started a romance novel. I don't care what puts her in the mood as long as its me that gets to reap the love making and cuddling after benefits.


Has she read 50 shades of Grey yet? That will get her going.....


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

LoriC said:


> Has she read 50 shades of Grey yet? That will get her going.....


Yeah, she did, right around the time we got married. Didn't do anything really. Now she's reading "Temptation" by Selena Kitt. Don't know what its about, but it appears to be pretty good from my estimation.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> 9! She started a romance novel. I don't care what puts her in the mood as long as its me that gets to reap the love making and cuddling after benefits.


400 erotic romance novels and two kindles later ;-) Big guy and I are up to 93 if you include bj's he likes them a couple times a week. You can get a lot of great ideas out of those novels.....hmmmmm
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

mineforever said:


> 400 erotic romance novels and two kindles later ;-) Big guy and I are up to 93 if you include bj's he likes them a couple times a week. You can get a lot of great ideas out of those novels.....hmmmmm
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My count is right up there with yours. I'm also in the BJ's a few times a week club. Man I love giving him those ;-)


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Bobby5000 said:


> Toffer wrote, (I think)
> 
> Just figured out my count so far this year is 18.
> 
> ...


Not that I don't agree with your statement but over the course of the last four or five years, we've had a number of talks (and previously we've read the books, done the worksheets and even a little counseling). We came to a compromise of 2x a week each and every time (she wanted 1, me 3 to 4). After a while I approached her in 2011 saying that I didn't think she was holding up her end of the bargain but I was assured that she was and it was all in my mind. So the next year I started to keep a tab if you will becuase I knew my needs were still not being met. 

The numbers haven't been discussed with her or used to beat her up. Heck, I didn't even mention the issue in our last discussion in February

She also had a history of saying to me things like "Boy are you going to get lucky tonight" after an enjoyable day together and then to simply get in to bed and roll over with her back facing me. When I mentioned this to her about 2 years ago, she said she understood that this wasn't right but instead of saying that she'd follow through on the idea, she said she's stop saying things like that and true to her word, she has!

We go on 2 vacations a year now. I work full time (away from home 13+ hours a day) and she works part time in our school system (Youngest is almost 15)

Like I said, I am coming to grips with it more and more. I am less and less resentful over her lack of effort. Guess I am just get used to it or detaching a bit

Don't get me wrong, I'm better off than a bunch of the other folks here but sadly I'm finding myself choosing things like trying to get a little more sleep over attempting to intiate sex with my wife.

The fact is that after discussing frequencies and her lack of intiation, things have actually backslid. I can't remember the last time she actually intiated (over a year or so). It's a sad end. I often feel as if I was a bait and switch victim. I was told when the kids came along that things would get better once they were older. That never happened


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

mineforever said:


> 400 erotic romance novels and two kindles later ;-) Big guy and I are up to 93 if you include bj's he likes them a couple times a week. You can get a lot of great ideas out of those novels.....hmmmmm
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I haven't had one since the honeymoon.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> I haven't had one since the honeymoon.


No BJ since the honeymoon? Ouch! Exactly when was the honeymoon?


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

LoriC said:


> Sounds like you may have a plan which is good. You are not in denial which is also good. Seriously if she is not willing to do anything to make this work than you really do have your answer.
> 
> Have you asked her if she is willing to read a book or two in the hopes of improving your marriage. My H and I did and I can't tell you how helpful this was! If she is let me know and I would be happy to give you suggestions. Specifically to help you both understand each others needs and how to go about meeting them.
> 
> As you know already if you are not meeting those needs is when detachment happens and the marriage fails.


She refuses to read those self help books, magazines, articles, therapy, MC, etc...says theyre dumb or that they dont work. My guess is its more of a denial thing, if she read the book or went to MC she would have to admit there was a problem in the first place.



ScubaSteve61 said:


> I haven't had one since the honeymoon.


Does it still count if she stops after a couple minutes and says she is tired and I have to finish? If so its 4, if not then its 0.

Would bump action in the bedroom up to 9 for the year, not that that it makes much of a difference haha



Toffer said:


> Not that I don't agree with your statement but over the course of the last four or five years, we've had a number of talks (and previously we've read the books, done the worksheets and even a little counseling). We came to a compromise of 2x a week each and every time (she wanted 1, me 3 to 4). After a while I approached her in 2011 saying that I didn't think she was holding up her end of the bargain but I was assured that she was and it was all in my mind. So the next year I started to keep a tab if you will becuase I knew my needs were still not being met.
> 
> The numbers haven't been discussed with her or used to beat her up. Heck, I didn't even mention the issue in our last discussion in February
> 
> ...


I do the same thing, I have a series of calendars in a spread sheet that I mark everyday, green if it happens, red if I get shot down, grey if neither of us made an attempt. Its interesting to see the patterns, the first year is basically solid red, the second year is a mixture and the last year is solid grey. 

The part that is actually kind of funny to me is that the green usually shows up in groups when she is trying to get me to do something I don’t want to do, when we bought a house, when she bought a new car, when she bought a dog, etc…


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LoriC said:


> No BJ since the honeymoon? Ouch! Exactly when was the honeymoon?


Well, at least I can say I've had a couple of those since my honeymoon ... but that's it ... two since my honeymoon exactly 20 years and 5 months ago. Yeah, she hates them. God my life sucks ... but she doesn't, lol.

EDIT: Yet she knows I am more than happy to go down on her ANY time she wants :scratchhead:


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## notmarriedyet (Nov 10, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well, at least I can say I've had a couple of those since my honeymoon ... but that's it ... two since my honeymoon exactly 20 years and 5 months ago. Yeah, she hates them. God my life sucks ... but she doesn't, lol.


That's awful!
I feel sorry for you guys that don't get them. 

As a woman I LOVE giving them just knowing how much my man enjoys it.
I think I would do it even if I didn't like it, simply because I married a man, and I'm willing to guess 99.9% of men love getting them. 

That's your husband, your man, your hero! Why wouldn't you want to give him ultimate pleasure!?

I just don't get it....


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I need to stop reading this thread. What makes me such a terrible human being that I am undeserving of even a reasonable sex life with my own wife? I'm fit, clean, decent looking guy (some say good looking) ... I've got six pack abs for gods sake! Guys with far less going on get laid like tile and if I stay in my current situation I'll die unwanted and undesired. Yeah, I know ... a little self-pitying rant and I need to put my big boy pants on and deal with it ... but there are times it gets to me.


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## notmarriedyet (Nov 10, 2012)

Not to mention, when he gets a BJ, He treats me like an absolute princess/goddess and shows his appreciation


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

LoriC said:


> No BJ since the honeymoon? Ouch! Exactly when was the honeymoon?


We got home from the cruise a year ago today.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> We got home from the cruise a year ago today.


Wow, newlyweds... Are you going to fix this or no?


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

LoriC said:


> Wow, newlyweds... Are you going to fix this or no?


I'm trying my arse off. Trust me on this. Its not my decision.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> I'm trying my arse off. Trust me on this. Its not my decision.


Does she like you to go down on her? If so, there has to be reciprocation here. I'm sure she will understand that. 

The best of luck to you Steve! I hope you get yours. :smthumbup:


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> I haven't had one since the honeymoon.


Not a good sign. Bait-&-switch? Hope the best for you Steve your a patient man. Much more so than I.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I need to stop reading this thread. What makes me such a terrible human being that I am undeserving of even a reasonable sex life with my own wife? I'm fit, clean, decent looking guy (some say good looking) ... I've got six pack abs for gods sake! Guys with far less going on get laid like tile and if I stay in my current situation I'll die unwanted and undesired. Yeah, I know ... a little self-pitying rant and I need to put my big boy pants on and deal with it ... but there are times it gets to me.


Your going through her hazing ritual. Scrubs like you get no sex or affection. Get used to it. Imagine if this is what goes through their mind. Sometimes it's true.

In this tough position, self-realize your self worth, love yourself, take care of yourself and your body. Know that you are an accomplished lover.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I need to stop reading this thread. What makes me such a terrible human being that I am undeserving of even a reasonable sex life with my own wife? I'm fit, clean, decent looking guy (some say good looking) ... I've got six pack abs for gods sake! Guys with far less going on get laid like tiloe and if I stay in my current situation I'll die unwanted and undesired. Yeah, I fknow ... a little self-pitying rant and I need to put my big boy pants on and deal with it ... but there are times it gets to me.


Why? Help me understand why you accept this? You struck a cord in me so don't take this personal ok....but why are you guys saying your "trying" to change things. I tell my staff when the say they are going to try to go home and think about it and when they decide they are going to really do it and make it happen to come back in. Somewhere along the line the line of control and leadership changed in your relationships and your spouses are now dictating how often you get sex and what kind of sex you get. Its time to "man up" men and be the lead in these relationships. Don't be deterred from your goal to make change. If you have to shock her off square one give her a choice of which call you make marriage counseling/sex therpist or divorse attorney she chooses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

LoriC said:


> Does she like you to go down on her? If so, there has to be reciprocation here. I'm sure she will understand that.
> 
> The best of luck to you Steve! I hope you get yours. :smthumbup:


She loves it, and I love doing it. I don't know why she doesn't anymore, other than the old adage of "why a woman is smiling on her wedding day"


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> She loves it, and I love doing it. I don't know why she doesn't anymore, other than the old adage of "why a woman is smiling on her wedding day"


Ok, as much as you love going down on her. Stop doing it. This will prompt an in-depth conversation that you desperately need. 

Tell her you wont unless she does. What's fair is fair..... That would get my attention in a hot minute! Dont think I could go on without oral sex.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

mineforever said:


> Why? Help me understand why you accept this? You struck a cord in me so don't take this personal ok....but why are you guys saying your "trying" to change things. I tell my staff when the say they are going to try to go home and think about it and when they decide they are going to really do it and make it happen to come back in. Somewhere along the line the line of control and leadership changed in your relationships and your spouses are now dictating how often you get sex and what kind of sex you get. Its time to "man up" men and be the lead in these relationships. Don't be deterred from your goal to make change. If you have to shock her off square one give her a choice of which call you make marriage counseling/sex therpist or divorse attorney she chooses.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I am already at that point. As far as the semantics of using the word "trying"; that doesn't mean a hope and a wish. Things are being changed but the end result is unknown. She is already aware that either this is fixed or I will divorce her. There is only so much leadership I can provide; I can't force her to do things she doesn't want to do. Sometimes it doesn't matter how effective you are as a leader, there are going to be people you have to fire.

Nah ... sometimes it gets to me and I need to have a little self-pity rant. I mean come on ... there are unemployed, unintelligent out-of-shape alcoholic wife beaters who have had more sex than I have. 

I think LoriC has had sex more times this year alone than I have had in my entire 20 year marriage. That's pretty sad.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> C'mon guys, show some sympathy for Plan9 here too! I'm in a clinically oral sexless marriage. I can't remember the last time my wife ever gave me a bj to completion - been at least a few years. And when she does give me oral, I'm lucky if she does it for a minute before she wants me to stick it in her.
> 
> But noooooooo, some of you guys think I'm complaining just to hear myself complain... :scratchhead:


Ha! My deepest condolences.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> C'mon guys, show some sympathy for Plan9 here too! I'm in a clinically oral sexless marriage. I can't remember the last time my wife ever gave me a bj to completion - been at least a few years. And when she does give me oral, I'm lucky if she does it for a minute before she wants me to stick it in her.
> L
> But noooooooo, some of you guys think I'm complaining just to hear myself complain... :scratchh.ead:


Ok...I'm sorry. Actually it makes me feel so bad for you young guys missing out on so much...loving and being loved is truely what makes this life worth living. Your wives are fools I don't know what else to say. They don't know the pure pleasure and fulfillment achieved when you make your man lose control in a full body orgaism so hard that he is has to hang on to you to get his balance back...it is exhilerating. I strive for it every chance I get and your wives are cheating themselves out of that high and the satisfaction and pleasure it brings. 

So yeah I wish I knew the magic words to fix it for all of you because life is too short and what your spouses are doing is selfish, controling , manipulitive and just wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I need to stop reading this thread. What makes me such a terrible human being that I am undeserving of even a reasonable sex life with my own wife? I'm fit, clean, decent looking guy (some say good looking) ... I've got six pack abs for gods sake! Guys with far less going on get laid like tile and if I stay in my current situation I'll die unwanted and undesired. Yeah, I know ... a little self-pitying rant and I need to put my big boy pants on and deal with it ... but there are times it gets to me.


Dying unwanted and undesired is NOT going to happen...right?? I know exactly what you mean about feeling devalued by not being desired by your wife. I feel the same...am I asking too much to want a healthy and fulfilling sex life from my marriage? So many male friends of ours have told my H he's lucky to have me. He shrugs and makes some passive aggressive joke. It makes me feel like less of a woman to have a husband who is terribly out of shape and uninterested in making the most of having a "hot wife" who is at her sexual peak. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

7 years or more for me. She really enjoyed doing it for the first several years & then it became "gross" to her with no reason. She has never liked it done to her, I used to try but it only made her mad & killed the mood.
I've been retrograde for 2 years so now, due to laser surgery of the prostate, so there isn't even a mess. No big deal for me anymore, as long as the other intimate behavior is present.


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## 2times2 (Apr 21, 2013)

Hi all, newbie here. Not going to go into my whole story at this point, but we are in our 40's, together 20 yrs., married 15. Our "count" for the year is at a whopping 7 times and I don't know how much longer I can stay. 

This has been an issue for several yrs., hubby recently had testing and is low T, he is on replacement gel which has maybe worked a little bit, but not much at all. 

Besides the lack of frequency there is mainly a lack of passion in our marriage and the sex is very much the same when it happens. A little foreplay, usually he does get me off orally before ending with a 2 minute session of missionary position, just racing for the orgasm PIV. He has no interest in other positions these days. ugh. Here to commisserate with you all~


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I know exactly what you mean about feeling devalued by not being desired by your wife.
> 
> *I agree! I just don't feel that my wife desires me physically the way I do her.
> 
> ...


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Dying unwanted and undesired is NOT going to happen...right??
> 
> *Not going to happen if I can help it. Who knows? Probably not but sometimes it feels that way.
> *
> ...


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

2times2 said:


> Hi all, newbie here. Not going to go into my whole story at this point, but we are in our 40's, together 20 yrs., married 15. Our "count" for the year is at a whopping 7 times and I don't know how much longer I can stay.
> 
> This has been an issue for several yrs., hubby recently had testing and is low T, he is on replacement gel which has maybe worked a little bit, but not much at all.
> 
> Besides the lack of frequency there is mainly a lack of passion in our marriage and the sex is very much the same when it happens. A little foreplay, usually he does get me off orally before ending with a 2 minute session of missionary position, just racing for the orgasm PIV. He has no interest in other positions these days. ugh. Here to commisserate with you all~


Commiserate away! Sorry you are here as one of the unhappy contributing posters of this thread. 

I keep on telling myself not to look at this thread ... but seeing the happy contributing posters is like gawking at the estates on the wealthy side of town ... "someday, I'll live in a place like that". They must view us as that car wreck on the interstate ... really shouldn't look but you just can't help peeking to see how bad it is.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Commiserate away! Sorry you are here as one of the unhappy contributing posters of this thread.
> 
> I keep on telling myself not to look at this thread ... but seeing the happy contributing posters is like gawking at the estates on the wealthy side of town ... "someday, I'll live in a place like that". They must view us as that car wreck on the interstate ... really shouldn't look but you just can't help peeking to see how bad it is.


Bahahaha!! That's hilarious! Sad...yet hilarious! Always helps to have a good sense of humor 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> You are NOT less of a woman; knowing your story that's on him, not you. You are making the changes you need to make. Are you ready for Friday?


I don't know...I've stewed about this day for months and months. For the longest time, I couldn't even bear the thought of telling him I'm leaving...so much so that I put it off way longer than I should have. 

Now it's here and I'm scared sh*tless. I just wish it could be over with. It will be very, very ugly. And no doubt the hardest thing I've ever done in my life to date. I just wish I could predict better how the whole thing will go down...like his reaction, how/when we'll tell our son, will I stay there Friday night still? When will I be totally moved out? Will my son come with me right away? Ugh...this sucks donkey balls.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Waking up to life said:


> I don't know...I've stewed about this day for months and months. For the longest time, I couldn't even bear the thought of telling him I'm leaving...so much so that I put it off way longer than I should have.
> 
> Now it's here and I'm scared sh*tless. I just wish it could be over with. It will be very, very ugly. And no doubt the hardest thing I've ever done in my life to date. I just wish I could predict better how the whole thing will go down...like his reaction, how/when we'll tell our son, will I stay there Friday night still? When will I be totally moved out? Will my son come with me right away? Ugh...this sucks donkey balls.


Hang in there hon. Keep coming here for guidance. There are a ton of very knowledgeable people here who have gone through what you are about to. Remember, it's time to take care of you!


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I don't know...I've stewed about this day for months and months. For the longest time, I couldn't even bear the thought of telling him I'm leaving...so much so that I put it off way longer than I should have.
> 
> Now it's here and I'm scared sh*tless. I just wish it could be over with. It will be very, very ugly. And no doubt the hardest thing I've ever done in my life to date. I just wish I could predict better how the whole thing will go down...like his reaction, how/when we'll tell our son, will I stay there Friday night still? When will I be totally moved out? Will my son come with me right away? Ugh...this sucks donkey balls.


You know I am sending you lots of strength from the other side of the world. You will get there, is damn hard but you will do it.

Today is 3 years since I ended my marriage, it is a sad day for me, it always will be. But then tomorrow I will wake up and all will be bright again.
There is such a great life out there don't be afraid to take it and know that you deserve it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


>


Whiner. Some of us have wives who have never given us a BJ, and that's how we'll be sent to the grave.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Whiner. Some of us have wives who have never given us a BJ, and that's how we'll be sent to the grave.


Ouch!!


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> I don't know...I've stewed about this day for months and months. For the longest time, I couldn't even bear the thought of telling him I'm leaving...so much so that I put it off way longer than I should have.
> 
> Now it's here and I'm scared sh*tless. I just wish it could be over with. It will be very, very ugly. And no doubt the hardest thing I've ever done in my life to date. I just wish I could predict better how the whole thing will go down...like his reaction, how/when we'll tell our son, will I stay there Friday night still? When will I be totally moved out? Will my son come with me right away? Ugh...this sucks donkey balls.


Great big donkey balls. I remember those terrible feelings all too well. 

I know it will be very difficult but stay resolute in your purpose and stick with your plan. You will get through it and it will soon all be over. Your son will make it through it as long as you are there for him.

There's a university close by that has a ropes course. Three platforms about 50 feet above the ground that you have to climb up to and take rope bridges to get from one to the other. Last year I went with a group from work and I have to tell you I tried to look brave but when I climbed up to the first platform, I looked down and thought about how high up I was and my knees went a little weak. First time I had ever felt vertigo. 

Two weeks ago I went to a different ropes course with a platform of similar height and I was determined not to let it bother me. I examined the wall I had to climb, planned my route and just did it without thinking about it. Got to the top of the platform and spent a few minutes admiring a beautiful lake in the distance. Took a zip line down. I didn't spend any time contemplating what could happen ... No fear, no vertigo ... I just did it.

I know it isn't quite as easy as that but you have thought this through ... agonized over it ... and your decision is made. Nothing he can say will change it. Stay on plan, say what you need to say, keeping it brief and to the point and then leave without giving him the opportunity to debate. 

Is there any chance that you can have somebody watch your son while you do this so that he doesn't have to be witness to it? You can then explain it to your son afterwards? I guess that depends on how confident you feel your husband can sit down with you and explain it to your son together but I suspect that your husband will not be amenable to that.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Great big donkey balls. I remember those terrible feelings all too well.
> 
> I know it will be very difficult but stay resolute in your purpose and stick with your plan. You will get through it and it will soon all be over. Your son will make it through it as long as you are there for him.
> 
> ...


My son is going to Carb day in Indy Friday with a friend and his dad...he's really excited because he's never been before. He won't be home til about 8pm. My H gets home from work around 5:30-6:00. So it will give us a couple of hours to talk. Not that I really want to talk that long...but I feel like I should be there when my son gets home. I hate the idea of dropping this bomb on him just when he gets home from a fun day. And I highly doubt my H will be able to present it with me in a calm and reasonable way. This is the part where I'm stuck. I really just want to tell my son before I tell my H but everyone says that's a bad idea.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> My son is going to Carb day in Indy Friday with a friend and his dad...he's really excited because he's never been before. He won't be home til about 8pm. My H gets home from work around 5:30-6:00. So it will give us a couple of hours to talk. Not that I really want to talk that long...but I feel like I should be there when my son gets home. I hate the idea of dropping this bomb on him just when he gets home from a fun day. And I highly doubt my H will be able to present it with me in a calm and reasonable way. This is the part where I'm stuck. I really just want to tell my son before I tell my H but everyone says that's a bad idea.


I think I would be hesitant to tell your son before your H too. I think it may seem to him that he is being forced to take sides or that he's somehow in the middle of all this. Of course that's not true but he won't know that. That's my gut reaction to that. 

I wonder if it would be better to arrange for your son to go home with the friend after their trip to Indy and you can pick him up afterwards and explain it to him. You have a bit more control in that situation. You have control over the amount of time you have with your husband and you don't have to worry about the scene your son will walk into when he gets home or what your husband's state of mind will be.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I think I would be hesitant to tell your son before your H too. I think it may seem to him that he is being forced to take sides or that he's somehow in the middle of all this. Of course that's not true but he won't know that. That's my gut reaction to that.
> 
> I wonder if it would be better to arrange for your son to go home with the friend after their trip to Indy and you can pick him up afterwards and explain it to him. You have a bit more control in that situation. You have control over the amount of time you have with your husband and you don't have to worry about the scene your son will walk into when he gets home or what your husband's state of mind will be.


I thought of this too. There are so many scenarios I've played out in my head. I'm not really sure where I'm going to tell H. Given his unstable moods, I'm not sure being alone in the house with him is the best idea. I've thought about it so much that sometimes I think I'm over-thinking it. I can't control every variable and every possible reaction. I better decide because d-day is fast approaching.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I would tell him in public but private. Maybe a park. I told mine in MC. The MC didn't handle it well at all. 
I wish you luck. It's such an unpredictable situation.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

RickyC said:


> We are still at only 2 for the year. About 4 last year and maybe 3-4 the previous years prior... What a joke. Sex is only one part of the whole problem but it is a problem. She doesnt initiate it, she doesnt seem to enjoy it, she doesnt want it, she refuses to seek any help for it and so on. At 49, I have many good years left. My sex drive is that same as it was in my 20s. (I think an inherited thing). I am now growing on in some damn rocking chair counting how many doctor visits I have to go. I told her a few months ago, after 19 years and two kids, things have to change or I am gone. I have tried -- really tried. The stress of all this (and of not really having the sexual release that helps to relive the tension of everyday life) has caused a lot of anxiety. I went to a therapist to get some medication, kind of told him what was going on. He told me flat out -- there is no connection with this person anymore, hire a lawyer and plan of moving out. He didnt even think marriage counseling would be of any good. WOW. I dont know if I was schocked because he said it or because it is what I have been thinking for years -- but never said it. We have no real physical/sexual connection or any other kind, its true. What little we had when I was married is gone. Even when opportunity arises to have sex, theres an excuse or errand. I know why men have affairs now. I have been faithful but damn it, I am not living in this kind of relationship the rest of my life. I am at the point know that if I had a chance for a "quickie" with someone -- I'd be all over it. What does that say about the marriage???


Sounds like how I feel, mostly. Except I just don't think about the quickie question, perhaps because I have never thought of myself as desirable to the one's I would long for. Though, everyday, I see beauty and attractiveness in women of all sorts. Jus a g'damn lonely feeling, being in a relationship-less marriage, with youth, and now middle age, passing me by.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Waking up to life said:


> My son is going to Carb day...:


What are the odds here on the great big interwebs three (more?) people suffering from sex-starved/intimacy-starved marriages find themselves in a thread and yet geographically are apparently in the same area. (JSGW is apparently 15 minutes from my location, and I can get to the Speedway in 30 minutes or so.

Isn't the WWW supposed to be bigger than this!?

Anyways, I'm going to get my water tested


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> What are the odds here on the great big interwebs three (more?) people suffering from sex-starved/intimacy-starved marriages find themselves in a thread and yet geographically are apparently in the same area. (JSGW is apparently 15 minutes from my location, and I can get to the Speedway in 30 minutes or so.
> 
> Isn't the WWW supposed to be bigger than this!?
> 
> Anyways, I'm going to get my water tested


lol ... where I used to work, I could hear the cars running on carb day. I'll be at the track Saturday and I'll be there for the race on Sunday. Probably only 30 minutes from my house too.

Weird.

Definitely something in the water. I knew it.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

LoriC said:


> I think my count is at around 85. I will make absolutely sure this count continues to grow and not taper off. Every day we work on us! We have made our marriage a priority and I have never been happier in my 22 years of marriage.


You ladies here that lovingly give of your time, bodies, and affection are my heroines. (I know there are at least a few her in this thread, ahead if not beind this post).

So I truly do appreciate this sort of info. 

I don't want to turn it sour here, and make this an opportunity for a pity part for myself. But I feel the need to see it in print: If I stay with my wife until I am dead, it seems very unlikely 85 more times will ever be achieved! And, like JSGW said above, I'm doubting I have hit that number over our 20/21 years. What a ______ I have been!


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## LB (May 16, 2013)

Our count for this year is probably close to 60 and my DH thinks that he cannot survive like this  

I think one of the strong points and basis of our relationship has been sex so I guess I see why he has such a big problem when the count drops from say 4 or 5 times a week to maybe 2 or 3 times a week but sometimes I am just tired after working all day and then dealing with 2 kids until bedtime, and then I feel like there is always this expectation and pressure which makes me want to even less IYKWIM.

Anyway I am trying to improve our relationship and hopefully make both of us happy (a whole other story) by upping the count again ... so far on 3 times this week, hoping to make it 4 (Friday to Friday) and thats in the midst of a family crisis. Will definately try for 4 / 5 next week as a personal challenge


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

Toffer said:


> Waking up to life said:
> 
> 
> > I know exactly what you mean about feeling devalued by not being desired by your wife.
> ...


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

LD spouses really don't get that marriage is a sexual contract. You don't need a contract to live with your sibling or roommate.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> LD spouses really don't get that marriage is a sexual contract. You don't need a contract to live with your sibling or roommate.


Of course they do. The problem is just like that terms of use contract you agree to without reading on your smartphone, they didn't fully understand the rights and obligations contained therein.

Putting the asexuals aside, even LD spouses understand that there is a sexual component to marriage. They just seem to think it's something to be trotted out on special occasions, like birthdays or Bar Mitzvahs. "Sex three times a week? What kind of sex crazed pervert does THAT?".

It's the terms of the contract the LD/HD couple are arguing over, not its existence. They are just two different tails of a distribution, different in degree, not so different in kind.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I could probably save you the cost of testing the water... A lot of what we men see as LD behavior from women or men for that matter is nothing more than Midwestern "values" at their best. I have lived in the Midwest for three decades and I'm still amazed how the prevailing culture has messed up so many people.

There are political and religious aspects in play here as well but for the most part, in my view at least, LD is a learned behavior early on and that is why it is so difficult to unravel. I'm not buying the huge percentages attributed to physical or medical issues any more than I'm buying the same kinds of numbers for depression or ADHD. Problems do exist, sure, but not at levels several times more than in Europe.

Bottom line, use the Five Why or similar methodology to get the root causes of LD, then fix those, assuming they're fixable. This is for heavy duty LD, not the milder cases of course. 

Ah, before I forget, I grew up ADHD in Europe before anyone could spell it there...


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Five Why?

First I have heard of that term. Off to Googling I go...


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Of course they do. The problem is just like that terms of use contract you agree to without reading on your smartphone, they didn't fully understand the rights and obligations contained therein.
> 
> Putting the asexuals aside, even LD spouses understand that there is a sexual component to marriage. They just seem to think it's something to be trotted out on special occasions, like birthdays or Bar Mitzvahs. "Sex three times a week? What kind of sex crazed pervert does THAT?".
> 
> It's the terms of the contract the LD/HD couple are arguing over, not its existence. They are just two different tails of a distribution, different in degree, not so different in kind.


Actually i do think a lot of people miss the who sex being a REQUIRED part of marriage. When i first brought this up to my wife she looked at me like i was crazy. Say made some comment like "this is 1800, you dont own me, if im not in the mood i dont have to have sex just because you want too."

At first i really didnt have a good reaction, after all she is right, it is 2013, and i certainly cant force her to do something against her will, legally or morally. However, in choosing that free spirited "ill do what i want" mentality you miss one of the key points of marriage, that you should function as a unit/team/pair or w/e you want to call it. 

Often we do things for our spouse even though we dont want too, because it makes them happy, and when they are happy we subconsciously feed off of their emotions and we are happy too. 

(just an example) 
I find it funny women will complain that their husbands never want to go shopping with them. What man would want to spend all afternoon walking around a mall looking at purses, only to come home at the end of the night and have his wife put on flannel pajamas, fall asleep and start snoring...what a waste of a day! But, if she would have stopped by Victoria's secret with him, picked something out and put it to use that evening i guarantee you the next time she asked him to go shopping with her he would have jumped to his feet and ran to the car with excitement!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Toshiba2020 said:


> Actually i do think a lot of people miss the who sex being a REQUIRED part of marriage. When i first brought this up to my wife she looked at me like i was crazy. Say made some comment like "this is 1800, you dont own me, if im not in the mood i dont have to have sex just because you want too."


That's a different contract than to which I was referring. I'll bet even your wife agrees that sex SOMETIME is a required part of marriage, even if that sometime is on her terms. Saying "I don't have to have sex with you tonight" is not the same as saying "I don't have to have sex with you ever".


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Only because the implications of "ever" are a bit more serious than those of "tonight"..


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

john117 said:


> *I could probably save you the cost of testing the water... A lot of what we men see as LD behavior from women or men for that matter is nothing more than Midwestern "values" at their best. I have lived in the Midwest for three decades and I'm still amazed how the prevailing culture has messed up so many people.*


... except my wife grew up in New York City and didn't move to the midwest until her early thirties. I am also from the east coast originally.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The trick is to retain what is worth keeping and toss the rest rather than depend on the masses for guidance. As I said, not an easy thing to address without digging deep. I wonder tho if most people do the exact opposite, that is, throw everything that disagrees with them and only keep what reinforces or validates existing beliefs.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

john117 said:


> I lived in Cambridge, Massachusetts for a while and other than the college and yuppie scene it was not considerably better than the Midwest in the context of our discussion.
> 
> There are different sets of emotional baggage that get carried around in their neat wheeled carry-on cases. My wife still has a lifetime supply of Asian mentality in storage, and has augmented it with another few decades' worth of Fly-Over charm.
> 
> The trick is to retain what is worth keeping and toss the rest rather than depend on the masses for guidance. As I said, not an easy thing to address without digging deep. *I wonder tho if most people do the exact opposite, that is, throw everything that disagrees with them and only keep what reinforces or validates existing beliefs*.


QFT


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> A lot of what we men see as LD behavior from women or men for that matter is nothing more than Midwestern "values" at their best. I have lived in the Midwest for three decades and I'm still amazed how the prevailing culture has messed up so many people.


I'll second this. It's kind of mind-blowing really. I'm a NY implant into the Midwest. Back when we used to go to church and we would seem affectionate by holding hands during the service, I had several older ladies in church make sniping comments about it "Enjoy that while it lasts - soon he won't want to sit next to you at all." I've never seen such a collection of dull marriages in my life. People have sex to have children (and a lot of them) - but after that's finished, there's no more reason for that connection. My husband says his parents likely haven't had sex since his youngest brother was born 30 years ago. (They were in their mid to late 30s at the time.)

Which is one of the primary reasons we stopped going to church, the prevailing rhetoric on the "purpose" of women versus men just reinforces that dynamic. Beating the whole men and women are separate and have different functions thing just reinforces the golf between couples. There's no - dating, no romance, no pursuit, no joy in being married. Marriage is a goal in and of itself. It's a very "Psalm 31" view of a woman versus a "Songs of Solomon" one. 

And - this was an issue for us early in our marriage, how continual exposure to this started to weave its way into the fabric of our relationship. How he would start "baiting-and-switching" not about sex, but about male/female dynamics the more we were involved religiously or with people from that circle. How the church "alpha males" would encourage him to get me back into my place. Which never affected our sex life, but had the very real risk of doing so - because I could not "feel it" despite being of I'd say "average D" when I felt so disrespected and invalidated. 

And looking around - I wonder if that isn't the problem. Not that the wife didn't at some point want or enjoy sex, but the continual brow-bashing about her "purpose" as a woman, and her being de-sexualized because she was a mother first, a housemaid second, and a woman third at some point - it just burned out. She saw sex as just another chore expected of her, there was no romance, no joy to it. And rather than deal with it, she self-medicated and internalized those desires. And here in Brew City - I'd say our favorite self-medicators are food and booze.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Sent you a PM


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> And looking around - I wonder if that isn't the problem. Not that the wife didn't at some point want or enjoy sex, but the continual brow-bashing about her "purpose" as a woman, and *her being de-sexualized because she was a mother first, a housemaid second, and a woman third at some point - it just burned out. She saw sex as just another chore expected of her, there was no romance, no joy to it. And rather than deal with it, she self-medicated and internalized those desires. *And here in Brew City - I'd say our favorite self-medicators are food and booze.


That is very interesting to me. I'm pretty sure this is a significant part of what has happened with my wife and I. Except, I never brow-bashed her myself (afaik, though, she did accuse me of it once...long story...but, IMHO she had already convinced herself that I wanted her to a certain way -- which is not the case). I see her as a woman that chose to be a mother, who was lucky enough to have chosen a mate (me) that is willing to not be the stereo-typical "dad" of the 1950s. I truly believe I don't ask for much from her -- yet, she lumps me in as one to blame for her being a "mom first, housemaid second). 

This is hard to express. In all of my life, for as long as I can remember, I've never wanted her or any woman (my mother included) to have to fit into anyone's mold of what a "woman/wife" is supposed to be. I saw my mother make choices career-wise and personality-wise that were uncomfortable for my dad and anyone with "conventional" 1950s/1960s/1970s of sex roles. But, I always admired my mom for that, and was very frustrated whenever it seemed like my father did not support her self-actualization.

When my wife and I first met, she had some lofty educational and career goals and I supported her efforts towards those tremendously for years. 

If I could be a stay at home dad, and she be the career person and bread-winner, I think I would comfortably choose that; but, I make a lot more money than she does or can at the moment; she'd never choose a less expensive lifestyle. So, *I* feel like I have no choice but to be "earner first", "dad second", and so on.

Even now, as the kids are 9 and 13, we sacrifice money -- and much much more significantly time -- to support her educational pursuits making yet another mid-life (age 50) career change. I hate it -- because I feel like she very often uses her pursuit of a second advanced degree as an excuse to avoid me (literally, staying up all night working on projects, not sleeping in our bed, etc.).

Sorry to ramble. Just wanted to say her words have multiple times indicated she has absorbed the notion that society expects her to be mother first, housemaid second, woman last -- and somehow she holds that against me. But, that's not my doing. And, I don't know how to fix it. Like other parts of this puzzle, I feel helpless at the moment to know how to fix it.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

My thread got me thinking about this one again. We are probably on the upside between 150 and 200.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

It might be possible that you directly didn't have anything to do with it, PieceofSky, it might be an internal feeling she's fighting, as the "Mommy Wars" can be rather insidious in how they make a woman feel dangerous inadequate. Maybe its a lingering feeling from her childhood, maybe its disappointment in herself. 

Your description of multiple career changes makes me think your wife even at 50, has yet to figure out who she is and what she really wants, for whatever reason. And - rather than realize that's an internal struggle, she's decided in some level that you are at fault. 

My only suggestion would be counseling.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Men are a heck of a lot better at compartmentalizing feelings, while women tend to roll everything together on one big lump.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Fast forward another 15 years and the whole thing went downhill unfortunately.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

Ugh... Shut down on my attempt. With borderline contempt no less. She spent the last hour reading Temptation by Selena Kitt... Awesome. Now I will be away tomorrow night, and am willing to bet she will take advantage of the alone time...


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

KendalMintcake said:


> It's mid February - couples in normal relationships should have had sex about 18 times by now this year. I myself am at 1. Woopidy doo!. I told my wife a few weeks ago that I was not going to live in a sexless marriage - she begged and pleaded she would do anything. A few nights later it happened. Now 6 weeks into the year looking at the big picture it's same ole same ole. We had a night off from the kids the other night and guess what 12 hours before their departure the sickness began to set in. I told her don't worry as soon as the kids get back you should start recovering. So tired of this. Anybody else here had sex more than once this year? If so, I am jealous!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My husband and I have sex usually 2-3 times a week, but life happens. The frequency comes and goes. Around when I got pregnant we went on a 10 month break (husband couldn't get on board with a pregnant gross monster in his bed) and so it was hard.. 

I think the most important thing to do is to communicate about it. What more can you do right? Try and be spontaneous and seduce your wife. Every woman loves feeling wanted and seduced.

One thing I always thought would be fun to try would be to take your wife to a bar.. set her on one of the bar stools and try and pick her up like she was a complete stranger....


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Flip Flops- just seeing how things are going & if you've left yet?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Well, she's in bed so I guess with less than an hour left in the month of May, it's time for my monthly update:

YTD - 3 times. Once in January and twice in May (good month!!)

We actually made a lot of progress in May but wow, right now I'm not feeling good about things. She still has no interest in sex but she does appreciate all effort I've made to reconnect. She is also falling back into old habits ... some of the same habits that led to a separation a couple of years back. She was in school this past year and I couldn't believe how much effort she put into it. Very impressive. I saw glimpses of the woman I married. As soon as school let out she REALLY went on vacation. Three weeks of doing nothing except watching tv and playing games on her computer until the wee hours of the morning. Drives me nuts because I work all day and then come home and have all sorts of chores to do ... while she watches tv. The nice house I pay for ... is a wreck. She could have taken a few hours every day and instead of sleeping in or watching tv she could have cleaned/organized just one room in the house ... and the house would be immaculate after 3 weeks. She could have worked out ... or done something positive and productive. Instead, I come home and there is always something she needs me to do on top of the many things I had already planned to do. I would be more than happy to if it wasn't for the fact she doesn't do anything herself and anything I ask her to help me with is done in her own sweet time or not at all. 

Sorry for the rant. I think what it comes down to is I have lost respect for her. Not only is she physically unattractive due to her extreme weight (a topic I've covered before) but it is hard to be attracted to a person you don't respect. Laziness is a trigger for me. There is nothing wrong with taking a break, enjoying yourself, having some down time ... it's healthy ... but she does NOTHING. 

God I hope she snaps out of it because this is what she was like leading up to our separation and had been that way for years. Yes, we've talked about it but it appears to fall on deaf ears.

So ... I'm struggling right now to want to keep trying. As far as the lack of sex goes, I made a short mental list of the things in my life that are more important than sex ... objectively speaking anyway ...

1) The well-being of my children is more important than sex

2) My personal growth is more important than sex

3) Friends and Family - too important to give up for sex. Cheaters do it all the time.

4) Helping people. For a long time, I've put a lot of energy into volunteerism ... I need to put more of my attention on that again. Helping people is more important than sex.

5) Career - my job is more important than having sex. My job is to grow the business. Because of that people with families have jobs. I help create jobs. That is more important than sex.

6) Finances - I think not having to work as a greeter at Wal-Mart while most people my age are retired is more important than sex 

7) Health - Can't have sex if you don't have your health.

I could probably name several other things that are more important ... but I did it to remind myself that if I never get laid again in my life, there are more important things to concern myself about. So why am I putting so much focus on trying to fix that part of my life?

There is no certainty that all the effort in the world that I put into my marriage will result in a satisfying physically intimate relationship. If I was a betting man, I'd probably bet against it. Then again, it absolutely won't happen if I don't make the effort. 

Really struggling I guess.

I have a timetable wrapped around some goals of mine within our marriage. If we can't fix things (or make progress that represents hope) then I will file. What I'm trying to convince myself to do is stick with the plan and don't give up before it's time. May was better than April ... that's something.

Let's see how June goes.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JSGW - you know how much I can relate to your emotions right now. The thing that gets me is that you've BEEN through separation before...I'm sure it was extremely difficult for your wife. Does she have no memory of that? Does she not feel desperate to avoid going through that again? Or does she think you won't really file? You have beat yourself up and continue to say how you have to "try everything" to save your marriage. You have, IMO. The ball is in her court now - don't go take it back from her. Hell if that ball was in my court I'd hit it back so fast your head would be spinning! But, she doesn't seem to be interested in returning the ball. And I'm sorry for you for that. And...don't get too down on yourself about the need for sex/intimacy. It IS important in a marriage, the lack thereof brings about a whole mess of other issues, such as lowered self esteem or self worth, lack of emotional connection (roommate marriage), frustration, resentment, etc. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here. Anyway...I feel your pain. It's after midnight and I'm alone and what I wouldn't give for some passion and intimacy in my bed instead an empty pillow...well, I'm sure you know the feeling. Well I'm rambling now but thinking of you and wishing the best outcome for you sooner than later, whatever that is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> JSGW - you know how much I can relate to your emotions right now. The thing that gets me is that you've BEEN through separation before...I'm sure it was extremely difficult for your wife. Does she have no memory of that? Does she not feel desperate to avoid going through that again? Or does she think you won't really file? You have beat yourself up and continue to say how you have to "try everything" to save your marriage. You have, IMO. The ball is in her court now - don't go take it back from her. Hell if that ball was in my court I'd hit it back so fast your head would be spinning! But, she doesn't seem to be interested in returning the ball. And I'm sorry for you for that. And...don't get too down on yourself about the need for sex/intimacy. It IS important in a marriage, the lack thereof brings about a whole mess of other issues, such as lowered self esteem or self worth, lack of emotional connection (roommate marriage), frustration, resentment, etc. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here. Anyway...I feel your pain. It's after midnight and I'm alone and what I wouldn't give for some passion and intimacy in my bed instead an empty pillow...well, I'm sure you know the feeling. Well I'm rambling now but thinking of you and wishing the best outcome for you sooner than later, whatever that is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks Waking ... I appreciate that.

Does she remember the separation? Well ... I think the thing about my wife is she avoids things. She doesn't seem to be able to deal with things until it reaches a point of crisis. She doesn't want to talk about things; she would rather put it out of her mind and pretend everything is ok. Does she believe I will file? I don't know. She very well could be hedging her bet against it because she knows how important my daughters are to me and I wouldn't want to jeopardize having them in my life daily. Also, during our separation, she threatened to move with my daughters to Texas. That was as calculating as I'd ever seen her and she could believe I would avoid that at all costs (in reality, I would address that immediately in a filing). I think it's most likely that she PREFERS to believe that I won't and so that's the world she lives in.

You know, objectively I can sit here and say that I have a lot going for me in a lot of ways. Do I have room for growth? Sure. Everybody does but half the battle is just recognizing that. Emotionally, the lack of sex/intimacy among other things does exactly what you say. It tears you down. Heck, it tears me down that I let it tear me down. It is a struggle. The thing I think that really makes me question my marriage is that I believe I am better in many ways without her than with her. Even when I separated, after a while I started to feel myself again ... the person I'm supposed to be ... and not the person struggling with a sense of lowered self-image/self-esteem, frustration and resentment. In our relationship, the whole is NOT greater than the sum of the parts. My life would be much different.

The one thing I recognized during my separation that puts a little fear in me is loneliness. That is difficult. I know what you are feeling right now and it was extremely hard. It took a long time during the separation to go from feeling so lonely that it ached to being able to be alone without feeling lonely. The first night I spent alone in my apartment was the night of the Super Bowl. Everybody I knew was out enjoying themselves with friends. I was laying in bed (sleeping bag) and my apartment was eerily quiet except that I could hear the couple above me having some very loud (and obviously satisfying) sex ... my wife and I hadn't had sex in 3 years at that point ... and I could hear the faint sounds of televisions, people and music all blended together in the distance. Meanwhile my mind is racing with all that had transpired. I remember getting up and bringing a radio in the room and turning it up loud enough to block the noise and divert my thoughts. It helped ... but not much. That was one of the worst nights of my life and when you said that you were alone and all you have is an empty pillow instead of passion and intimacy ... well, that brought back some memories. I'm very sorry that is what you are going through right now Waking; it's not something I'd wish on anybody. Someday though, you will have that again in your life ... guarantee it. You are making it happen.


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well, she's in bed so I guess with less than an hour left in the month of May, it's time for my monthly update:
> 
> YTD - 3 times. Once in January and twice in May (good month!!)
> 
> ...


Would you be making that list if you were having sex multiple times a week? i feel as if youre just trying to justify why its ok to live in a sexless marriage. Why settle for a sexless marriage if you dont have too?



> The thing I think that really makes me question my marriage is that I believe I am better in many ways without her than with her. Even when I separated, after a while I started to feel myself again ... the person I'm supposed to be ... and not the person struggling with a sense of lowered self-image/self-esteem, frustration and resentment. In our relationship, the whole is NOT greater than the sum of the parts. My life would be much different.


Why stay if you know your life would be better without her? Sure you will miss your daughters, but would they rather see you miserable everyday, or see you happy on weekends? Children learn so much from their parents, the sooner your daughters learn that behaving like their mother later in life is not a good thing the better they will be in the long run.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Toshiba2020 said:


> *Thanks for the feeback. I think we may agree more than you think
> *
> Would you be making that list if you were having sex multiple times a week? i feel as if youre just trying to justify why its ok to live in a sexless marriage. Why settle for a sexless marriage if you dont have too?
> 
> ...


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well no, I am not going to settle for a sexless marriage. What I have done is commit myself to making one last attempt at fixing a couple of things that are unacceptable to me in my marriage. I gave myself deadlines so that it just doesn't continue indefinitely, making excuses to keep prolonging it. I am struggling with maintaining that commitment. The list was just an exercise ... a jedi mind trick to keep myself from just giving up on the commitment I made and filing right now. Trying to give myself some perspective on things ... that there is no harm in continuing on in my sexless marriage and keep working on things to try to improve it because honestly there are things more important than sex. At least mentally I can make that argument. It does not mean it is acceptable and my deadlines are going to budge. It isn't as if I will be able to file for divorce and jump immediately into another fulfilling marriage. My little black book is 23 years old *I don't have a list of available women waiting in line to be my next wife. *It may take a long time to find the right person ... in fact, it may never happen and I could end up alone or jumping from one ONS to another ... how fulfilling is that? Who knows what the future holds? I think I can take the time to stay on plan.


Where's the sign-up list?  You know I'm just having fun with you...but seriously...you sound like a very well-rounded (I don't mean physically ), thoughtful, and caring guy. If anyone got to know you, and saw how much you have done and are doing to try to save your marriage single-handedly (which in my experience doesn't work), and if they saw how much you truly love your girls and how well you take care of them, well, I can tell you for a fact that you WON'T be living out the rest of your life single and lonely. It continues to amaze me how much caring and love you pour into your marriage despite the fact that your wife ought to be the one doing this kind of heavy lifting. Again, I just want to shake her and say "Wake up, woman!! Look at what you're getting ready to lose! You have a [hot] husband who is an awesome father and provider, he takes care of everything around the house, he takes care of the girls, he continues to try to connect with you, but you do nothing but stick your head in the sand! Is the sand that comfortable that you're willing to risk losing him?" Ugh! I'm frustrated for you, and I don't even have to live with her!

Well, I admire you for your patience and for sticking to the plan. Don't alter your timeline unless she gives you REALLY good reason to. Making the decision to leave is excruciating, as you well know. Just don't let the dread of it to drag you down and make you try to convince yourself you can "live with" an unfulfilling marriage. If anyone needs to do any convincing here, it is your wife who ought to be convincing you not to leave her.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I think you just made my day Waking


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

10.


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## 1971 (Mar 7, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> 10.



Congrats


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Go ScubaSteve! You hit double digits!!!


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> Go ScubaSteve! You hit double digits!!!


Sad part is, the last 60 days are more than 210 days before that...


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Just keep pushing forward & adding to those numbers.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

woundedwarrior said:


> Just keep pushing forward & adding to those numbers.


How are you doing with respect to this situation?


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## cardifftony (Mar 2, 2013)

Still nothing for almost 3 years
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I think we are at n.6, but I'm not really sure...


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

flipflops said:


> Sorry, I've been super busy. Moved out on the 1st. Trying to get things organized. H will visit in 4-6 weeks.


Sorry to be a bit slow, but is that "move out" as in leaving H/marriage? Or are you relocating somewhere together.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Last night was number One...first time in her life she has had a squirting orgasm


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

It is sad. We have a sad attitude in here, we need to raise that attitude!


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Any phone contact at all before the visit in 4-6 weeks? How long is he visiting? I just wondered if you set any guidelines before the separation??


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I wish you the best & I'm glad he's keeping daily contact with your kids. How far away are you from each other?


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## mikey69696 (Oct 30, 2012)

Nothing for 4 years.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

That's quite a hike. My only advice, that was given to me by my therapist is you both need guidelines & a timetable, otherwise you both will just drift aimlessly.
For example- Can you both date other people?, How often do you spend time together? etc. How much time are you separated, 6 months- a year is the norm?
Without this, you both will begin to adjust without each other & remain married but apart. I know a woman who did this. She was separated for 10 years & had to track her husband down to divorce so she could marry another. They had no plan but to live apart for awhile & weeks turned into years??


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

cardifftony said:


> Still nothing for almost 3 years
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's is torture!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tryingtochange (Jun 4, 2013)

I have to say this post has made me so sad. Some people don t understand that sex is way more than just intercourse its one of the most important things in a marriage. I have always percieve it as a way to help the emotional bond with my husband..beside the fact it should be fun and exciting and passionate!!! Its a mood enhancers it keeps men from getting prostate cancer!!!! I can not preach enough how important it is...men percieve sex as love and honestly would a quickie really kill you ladies???? It makes him happy and feel wanted. Throw him down on the bed and if he lacks experience show him teach him or her for that matter there are books or movies that show and explain everything!!! Go to sex shops together its fun and embarrassing but this is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with make him or her happy....rant done...words of advise want to keep your spouse,,,go have sex and learn and ignite the passion..


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## tryingtochange (Jun 4, 2013)

ok it took me awhile to read this whole thread my heart goes out to so many of you...don t stay in a sexless marriage for the kids cause you may not realize it but they see everything and they are learning its ok to not be happily married just to stay married..and i am sure you would never want them to think that is ok to repeat in their lives and marriages. If any of these spouses really truly cared they would put just as much effort in changing the marriage as you all are...but they are not. Please learn to cut your losses and move on don t waste more time on somrthing that is not going to change you all deserve to be happily married and that includes emotionally and physically..some of you men should be saints for the amount of crap you put up with while treating them like princesses...stop you are not getting what you need in this world why are you giving her the whole world?? My hubby and I have problems in communcation and listening to each other but sexually we are compatable...we all need some work in some areas but don t wait another 5 10 20 years of wishing things will get better....good luck to you all!!


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

flipflops said:


> Hey D, this is for you... I know you're reading all of my posts and have logged into my account. I also know that you put spyware and/or a key logger on my laptop. Guess what? You won't find anything. Unlike you, I have nothing to hide!
> 
> PS Thank you for deleting most of my posts.


Holy Sh!t! Busted!!


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

flipflops said:


> Yep, can't wait until he reads this one!


I guess R is out of the question at this point.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

What an asshöle! The truth hurts I guess.


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## 1971 (Mar 7, 2013)

FlipFlops

I'm really sorry, I have read most of your posts and I was hoping things would improve.

I'm in a similar situation, I haven't moved out yet but it is really tough.

Keep positive

1971


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm very sorry as well, he officially ruined the rest of his life. The only positive is, now you have the answer you've been waiting for. You & your kids will get through, but he will realize he just shot himself in the head, what a coward!!!


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

You know the odds are that he has a username for this site and that people told him to go clandestine ops on you. Kinda ironic if you ask me.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I sometimes wish my wife would go all clandestine ops on me, so she could see for herself what life has been like for me (lonely, sad, hurt, and invisible). As it stands now, she seems to prefer to NOT know anything about my inner life, as well as her own -- and gets angry if I attempt to shed light on it. (But she's starting to find some courage and motivation.)


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

Can you copy your posts with the time/date stamp to a local file and save them on a thumb drive until you get your computer cleaned?

I am so sorry you have to deal with this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

flipflops said:


> I'm not so worried about the posts. It's not a huge deal. It's just knowing H is in my account messing with it. If he was just reading stuff, I could care less. I have nothing to hide, but why delete stuff? Really, what's the point? So people can't see what a turd he is?


Embarrassment, deleting the evidence trail, revenge, etc. Perhaps you could use a friend's computer or a library computer to change your password and then don't log in until you get that keylogger off. Also, get a password manager like LastPass. They are designed to conceal passwords even against keyloggers and encrypt the file that passwords are stored in on your hard drive.

https://lastpass.com/support.php?cmd=showfaq&id=1106
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> I sometimes wish my wife would go all clandestine ops on me, so she could see for herself what life has been like for me (lonely, sad, hurt, and invisible). As it stands now, she seems to prefer to NOT know anything about my inner life, as well as her own -- and gets angry if I attempt to shed light on it. (But she's starting to find some courage and motivation.)


ive thought the same thing before, ive tried telling her how i feel but she shuts me out time and time again, nothing changes, the conversations are pointless. I would love for my wife to accidentally find my account, read what ive been posting, how im really feeling, how much shes hurt me and how much ive done to keep going despite the issues we've had...guess we can all dream from time to time


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Toshiba2020 said:


> ive thought the same thing before, ive tried telling her how i feel but she shuts me out time and time again, nothing changes, the conversations are pointless. I would love for my wife to accidentally find my account, read what ive been posting, how im really feeling, how much shes hurt me and how much ive done to keep going despite the issues we've had...guess we can all dream from time to time


I have emailed my H threads I have posted on from time to time. Or maybe you can just print it out and leave it for her.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

How did he respond? I was always afraid it would backfire?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> How did he respond? I was always afraid it would backfire?


You would have to be very careful as it can easily come off as manipulative, and anything you said here will be suspect.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> You would have to be very careful as it can easily come off as manipulative, and anything you said here will be suspect.


Well, the threads I sent him by email were mostly about sex. So, it didnt fall under the category of being manipulative although just maybe... His response was that it gave him a hard on to read some of these threads at work, lol.
:rofl:


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## 4understanding (Oct 23, 2011)

Finally ended my sexless marriage of 12 years last fall (very limited sex anyways). My new girlfirend and I generally have sex about 3 times per week. Its nice to be in a "healthy" sexual relationship where we have a similar drive and a lot of love, respect and appreciation for each other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cardifftony (Mar 2, 2013)

After almost 3 years 6 times in 2 weeks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

4understanding said:


> Finally ended my sexless marriage of 12 years last fall (very limited sex anyways). My new girlfirend and I generally have sex about 3 times per week. Its nice to be in a "healthy" sexual relationship where we have a similar drive and a lot of love, respect and appreciation for each other.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



How much of a difference has it made in your life?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

Well after being told nothing would happen all week at the beach, a quickie last night made it 11. Home now, plan on trying again tonight too.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

LoriC said:


> Well, the threads I sent him by email were mostly about sex. So, it didnt fall under the category of being manipulative although just maybe... His response was that it gave him a hard on to read some of these threads at work, lol.
> :rofl:


Really??? Like which ones?


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

diwali123 said:


> Really??? Like which ones?


I honestly don't remember, I haven't sent him a link for a few months.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Well, Thursday night, it took a few minutes to get everything working for me, but things worked really well after that. Twice between 8:30 and midnight. Afterwards my STBW and I were talking and realized that it had been well over a month, possibly more than two since the last time we went a day without sex at least once, and many of those days, two or three times or more. The last few days, it has taken me a bit longer to get up, still less than 5 minutes, but not great, so we decided to try a little experiment, and planned on taking Friday off to give him a rest.

Well, we ate dinner last night, and were just laying in bed talking about things, a little cuddling, stolen kisses, gazing into each others eyes. We had already talked earlier about me taking care of her, and just me having the night off. We both know we would be thrilled to take care of the other, no strings attached, no reciporication, just because. The problem we run into with that is that we are both so driven to have the other, it has always turned into something completely mutual. 

Well, as the night went on, the sexual tension was building even though we had agreed to take the night off. That's when the rationalizations started...it's been over 24 hours since we did it, she pointed out that after midnight, it would technically be Saturday, so we took Friday off. About that time was when she came out with a line that I think is one of the funniest things ever and belongs on a t-shirt...

She said "About this experiment...my hypothesis is 'This Sucks!'" ...and then she proceeded to get licked and pounded for the next hour.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Tonight...Best.Blowjob.Ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

I hope flipflops is ok. Seems like all her posts disappeared.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

Not too long after starting this thread I sat down with my wife and for the first time told her that withholding of sex was a deal breaker. Before that conversation, if ever the topic came up, I would try to solve the problem by trying to encourage her to like it more and want it more. That never worked and just made me even more confused. It wast until I specifically said that I can't deal with being denied and can't foresee continuing to tolerate it. Somehow that seemed to have massive impact. Things are much more regular and funny as it seems she seems so much more content herself. I have always known that her hesitations have been due to childhood trauma which lead to my lightly stepping around the issue, but the point here is that it seems best to just state what's really going on in your mind. I know some people on this thread have begged the question why count? Well, in cases where you have only a few times a year and your one hand can hold the number of times you have been intimate, you are not really counting. We can all recognize 4 items in an instant, 4 match sticks, 4 pieces of fruit on the table. This thread is not about tallying and comparing conquests, it's all about connection through intimacy. Hopefully if we can all reconnect emotionally then the physical follows. At least that's what seems to be going on with my finally being gutsy enough to just state the truth - the truth that I need my wife's physical connectivity and that I still find her to be the most incredibly delicious woman on the planet 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Well, it's the end of the month and I haven't updated in a while so ...

January - 1
February - 0
March - 0
April - 0
May - 2
June - 1
July - 1 (quickie at beginning of month)

Total: 5

Well, that is more in 7 months then we've had in any year for maybe 6 or 7 years. Maybe I should celebrate. Truth is though, I just feel burnt out ... almost as if I have just accepted the way things are between us and don't care anymore. That's not good. I need a kickstart.

So she is supposed to start student-teaching tomorrow to finish her teaching program. Keep in mind that she did not pass her student-teaching in the spring and this is her second chance. She told me when I walked in tonight that she can't start until next week. Why? Because she made an assumption and returned her background check at the last minute. They can't get it processed until next week. The teacher was pissed. She took out a 20K student loan that I have to pay back ... she has already failed once and she playing with fate? I wanted to be pissed but I thought ... figures. Oh well, just another thing. I have just reached a point of complete detachment and I need to wake up.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

I thought I remember you previously saying you we're setting a specific period of time to see improvements or you would be separating. 

Are you still with that plan? Have you seen improvements?



JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well, it's the end of the month and I haven't updated in a while so ...
> 
> January - 1
> February - 0
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

jd08 said:


> I thought I remember you previously saying you we're setting a specific period of time to see improvements or you would be separating.
> 
> Are you still with that plan? Have you seen improvements?
> 
> ...


I am still on it ... that hasn't changed ... but I am having a serious lack of motivation right now. Feel a little dead inside. Trying to talk myself back into it. Yes, things got better in some areas. She has communicated more and she actually wanted sex. Those are the two things I needed and there was improvement. We seemed to be making progress and yet at the same time she has just completely disappointed me. She has basically taken the summer off to play and spend money. Things are tight as it is and she couldn't give a crap. Even if we could have sex, she's never home to have it. She's happy though ... yay. I suppose I could boil it all down to respect. I don't have much respect for her anymore. It is hard to be attracted to a 330lb woman that you don't respect. 

Hmmm ... felt myself getting a little angry there ... maybe I do have a little something left in me.

... and it wasn't separate ... I've given myself a deadline to fix it or file for divorce with another deadline to finalize the divorce.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I think you just made my day Waking


I think u should get another hobby or do something that may take ur mind off having sex... in my honest opinion, the more u keep a count or feel sad/bad about this, the worst it will be for the both of you. heck, u may even end up to be a grumpy! 

for what's worth, put ur energy into something else for now, it may not be the best solution, but it does help in making ur life happier/less crappy as it is


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

just for fun....(me sour? come on!)

Jan 0
Feb 0
Mar 0
Apr 7 approx (lamest hysterical bonding on earth)
May 1 (i think)
Jun 1 
July 0
Aug who knows

A close friend (a trusted female friend and the only one on my side who knows about the A besides my brother) said to me, after a stunned silence - "you are a male, how do you put up with that?"


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

malmale said:


> I think u should get another hobby or do something that may take ur mind off having sex... in my honest opinion, the more u keep a count or feel sad/bad about this, the worst it will be for the both of you. heck, u may even end up to be a grumpy!
> 
> for what's worth, put ur energy into something else for now, it may not be the best solution, but it does help in making ur life happier/less crappy as it is


Well, I am decidedly less interested in sex right now for some reason. Not with her anyway. Not really putting a whole lot of thought into that. Yes, for the longest time I was preoccupied by how bad it was but I'm over it. No ... the keeping count is just a barometer, nothing more. Not real hard to count on one hand and I didn't even think of it until I realized it was time for my monthly update, lol. 

I mean, what can I do? I'm not going to cheat. With extreme investment in trying to fix our problems I got our total up to 4 times over the last 3 months ... not sure it's going to get better. Not even sure right now I want to have sex with her anymore. If I divorce, it is going to take a long time before that is all resolved and I'm at a good place to start dating. So ... I'm just not allowing myself to dwell on it a whole lot. I have avoided most of the sex in marriage discussions like a plague so that I DON'T start thinking again about what I'm missing out on.

Gotta fix the marriage before that will improve ... but right now I just feel "done" ... acceptance of her and our relationship. Struggling to care again. I gave myself a deadline and promised myself I would give it all I have until that deadline ... and I did for a while ... but I'm tired.

EDIT: I refuse to be a "grumpy"  I may not have sex in my life but I do have a lot to be grateful for.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

As of Monday I am at 14. Wish it was 4 times that...


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

Well still at ZERO here. But I keep moving forward. We have been talking a lot so that is good. Gotta fix this one big problem.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Horizon said:


> just for fun....(me sour? come on!)
> 
> Jan 0
> Feb 0
> ...


Yikes! What happened in May? You think it was May ... or you "think" it was sex? 

Now you, my friend, need to move on from your cheater wife ... seriously.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ALWAYS TRYING said:


> Well still at ZERO here. But I keep moving forward. We have been talking a lot so that is good. *Gotta fix this one big problem*.


Should I ask?


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well, I am decidedly less interested in sex right now for some reason. Not with her anyway. Not really putting a whole lot of thought into that. Yes, for the longest time I was preoccupied by how bad it was but I'm over it. No ... the keeping count is just a barometer, nothing more. Not real hard to count on one hand and I didn't even think of it until I realized it was time for my monthly update, lol.
> 
> I mean, what can I do? I'm not going to cheat. With extreme investment in trying to fix our problems I got our total up to 4 times over the last 3 months ... not sure it's going to get better. Not even sure right now I want to have sex with her anymore. If I divorce, it is going to take a long time before that is all resolved and I'm at a good place to start dating. So ... I'm just not allowing myself to dwell on it a whole lot. I have avoided most of the sex in marriage discussions like a plague so that I DON'T start thinking again about what I'm missing out on.
> 
> ...


haha
fyi, just to make u feel better, due to various reasons, I only got I think 5 times since last year? I didn't keep a count but I know that it is not something I am proud to reveal at all! 

then again, while working out on wife's LD issues, I am now more into taking care of the baby, gardening, antiques hunting/trading, etc... just to keep my mind preoccupied and to prevent that why-is-my-life-so-freaking-bad kinda feeling/emotions creep into my mind for as much as possible.

but I think it is working so far for me, and the best part of my hobbies right now, my flowers are blooming and my fruits are ripening, cheers me up without fail everyday


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## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

Justsomeguy. I know I don't post very often but.... Frustrated tonight so. Our big problem is lack of intimacy. We have lots of little problems but we are talking through them. I was looking forward to the hysterical bonding thing..still waiting for that. But like you I have a time table and we are fast approaching it so he better get a move on.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

OMG.. I feel so sorry for you people... I really do..

If it's an ordinary day.. no one is sick.. no crisis etc... it is extremely rare that we don't hit it once in the morning and again at bedtime.

Please don't hate me...


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

Since I left my STBXW and met my new girlfriend a few months later, I've gone from 2-3 times a month to every single day!!!

In the first two weeks with my girlfriend, I received more oral than I did in my 18 year relationship with the STBXW.

The best part of it all is I never have to ask and I never get rejected...it's always readily available to me whenever I want it. I will so always treasure her, as that is just one of the many amazing aspects of her as a person. Awesome is one of the first descriptors that come to mind.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

hambone said:


> OMG.. I feel so sorry for you people... I really do..
> 
> If it's an ordinary day.. no one is sick.. no crisis etc... it is extremely rare that we don't hit it once in the morning and again at bedtime.
> 
> Please don't hate me...


Ha! No hate. I hope that can happen for me at some point again in the future ... just gotta get through the mess. Carry on.


----------



## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Yikes! What happened in May? You think it was May ... or you "think" it was sex?
> 
> Now you, my friend, need to move on from your cheater wife ... seriously.


It was probably 1 time in May. I know it's time to move on I just don't have all the ducks line up. Getting there. At least I can see the funny side, there isn't anywhere else to go after such humiliation (other than right out the door).

Speaking of seriously, my WS has noted that the connection has gone and I should not expect it to return so soon. Hmmmm....when might it return? Guess who can't answer that one. (think I'll go and expand on my thread).


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Indy when you find that sort of amazing connection with a new partner post a sexless marriage it is so precious, something to be coveted. Enjoy and be happy.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

hambone said:


> OMG.. I feel so sorry for you people... I really do..
> 
> If it's an ordinary day.. no one is sick.. no crisis etc... it is extremely rare that we don't hit it once in the morning and again at bedtime.
> 
> Please don't hate me...


Sure!!!!, what's to hate?


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

IndyTMI said:


> Since I left my STBXW and met my new girlfriend a few months later, I've gone from 2-3 times a month to every single day!!!
> 
> In the first two weeks with my girlfriend, I received more oral than I did in my 18 year relationship with the STBXW.
> 
> The best part of it all is I never have to ask and I never get rejected...it's always readily available to me whenever I want it. I will so always treasure her, as that is just one of the many amazing aspects of her as a person. Awesome is one of the first descriptors that come to mind.


So she's great as a person, and has no problem keeping the cogs of the relationship well oiled with frequent love making and affections.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

IndyTMI said:


> Since I left my STBXW and met my new girlfriend a few months later, I've gone from 2-3 times a month to every single day!!!
> 
> In the first two weeks with my girlfriend, I received more oral than I did in my 18 year relationship with the STBXW.
> 
> The best part of it all is I never have to ask and I never get rejected...it's always readily available to me whenever I want it. I will so always treasure her, as that is just one of the many amazing aspects of her as a person. Awesome is one of the first descriptors that come to mind.


I wonder if my woman has a long lost sister that you are dating?  I know we've noticed this on other threads, but our situations are so similar...

First time oral with my STBW was more than in the past 20 years with my ex-wife...

We've been together for a year now, the sex continues to get more intense as the emotional side continues to develop...not only do we have daily sex and then some, I don't have to ask, nor am I rejected, and she initiates half the time


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

We've only had sex about 8 times in July. That's low for us. My wife has been battling a yeast infection for the past month. Very unusual for her to get one. Anyways, I haven't had good PIV sex for about a month. We've probably had it about 4 times total this whole month with them basically all being uncomfortable for her because of the yeast infection. We've thought it was cured twice now only to find out it wasn't. 

So the last 4 times we had sex it was anal. My wife wants to try for PIV tonight. If she feels any discomfort and isn't fully healed yet, it will have to go the backdoor.

Yeah, I know it sounds cracked, but if I have to go anal for a 5th time in a row, I think I may just pass tonight.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> We've only had sex about 8 times in July. That's low for us. My wife has been battling a yeast infection for the past month. Very unusual for her to get one. Anyways, I haven't had good PIV sex for about a month. We've probably had it about 4 times total this whole month with them basically all being uncomfortable for her because of the yeast infection. We've thought it was cured twice now only to find out it wasn't.
> 
> So the last 4 times we had sex it was anal. My wife wants to try for PIV tonight. If she feels any discomfort and isn't fully healed yet, it will have to go the backdoor.
> 
> Yeah, I know it sounds cracked, but if I have to go anal for a 5th time in a row, I think I may just pass tonight.


Have you been treated for yeast? Could it be that you are passing it back and forth? Guys can carry without the same, or any symptoms at all.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> We've only had sex about 8 times in July. That's low for us. My wife has been battling a yeast infection for the past month. Very unusual for her to get one. Anyways, I haven't had good PIV sex for about a month. We've probably had it about 4 times total this whole month with them basically all being uncomfortable for her because of the yeast infection. We've thought it was cured twice now only to find out it wasn't.
> 
> So the last 4 times we had sex it was anal. My wife wants to try for PIV tonight. If she feels any discomfort and isn't fully healed yet, it will have to go the backdoor.
> 
> Yeah, I know it sounds cracked, but if I have to go anal for a 5th time in a row, I think I may just pass tonight.


while I pity both of u for the lack of sex in marriage, but who in the right frame of mind would want to have sex and more so PIV with a yeast infection that is not healed properly?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

malmale said:


> while I pity both of u for the lack of sex in marriage, but who in the right frame of mind would want to have sex and more so PIV with a yeast infection that is not healed properly?


It wasn't intentional. The moment we knew that she had it, we stopped. Then she got treated, tried again and realized soon after that she still had it, got treated again. Rinse and repeat. So it wasn't like we were having sex knowingly while she had the infection. 

To answer sam, I asked my wife to inquire with her doc on whether I should be treated for yeast. The doc didn't think I needed treated, so we didn't go down that avenue. Not sure if this would be a cure, but I've been eating plain greek yogurt almost daily for awhile. I know it has the probiotics which are supposed to combat yeast infections among other things. I don't think I'm carrying it, but I'm open to being treated. 

She's been on a cream and pill regimen for the past 10 days, so I'm hoping it's finally cured. If we find out she still has it, then I'll insist on being treated because it could be being passed back and forth between us as some of you already pointed out.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> It wasn't intentional. The moment we knew that she had it, we stopped. Then she got treated, tried again and realized soon after that she still had it, got treated again. Rinse and repeat. So it wasn't like we were having sex knowingly while she had the infection.
> 
> To answer sam, I asked my wife to inquire with her doc on whether I should be treated for yeast. The doc didn't think I needed treated, so we didn't go down that avenue. Not sure if this would be a cure, but I've been eating plain greek yogurt almost daily for awhile. I know it has the probiotics which are supposed to combat yeast infections among other things. I don't think I'm carrying it, but I'm open to being treated.
> 
> She's been on a cream and pill regimen for the past 10 days, so I'm hoping it's finally cured. If we find out she still has it, then I'll insist on being treated because it could be being passed back and forth between us as some of you already pointed out.


don't worry, it is easily treated with cream and wash, just keep it dry n clean and in no time, both of you will have no more excuses for lacking in intimacy


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Well, we had anal again tonight. I tried to see if she'd go for a BJ, that was a no go. But she wanted to do something, so a rain check was not in the cards. The yeast infection looks to be cured, but she's still feeling the soreness. We're both frustrated and really missing PIV.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Well, we had anal again tonight. I tried to see if she'd go for a BJ, that was a no go. But she wanted to do something, so a rain check was not in the cards. The yeast infection looks to be cured, but she's still feeling the soreness. We're both frustrated and really missing PIV.


am starting to wonder if anal is also contributing to the yeast infection...


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

7
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

1992-present: zero.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Runs like Dog said:


> 1992-present: zero.


Is that really ok?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Is that really ok?


Well we're winding down this whole project. I had planned on being able to finalize everything by the beginning of June but we're about 3 months behind schedule. So around the beginning of Sept we should be over and out. Beyond that, I really don't care anymore. Monasticism is more a state of mind than a state of being and at this point I figure I'm truly not capable of normal relationships like that so it's all somewhat irrelevant.


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

malmale said:


> am starting to wonder if anal is also contributing to the yeast infection...


Totally agree. Yeast lives in the intestine as well. Maybe use a condom until this heals?


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

KendalMintcake said:


> Thanks fr your kind words. At this point my post is more for those of you in good situations. Enjoy and cherish what you have. Being me sucks. Feel lucky your spouses appreciate you and be thankful you don't wake up every day hating what happened...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If she is not going to meet your needs then stop meeting hers.
do a 180 on her.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

FemBot said:


> Totally agree. Yeast lives in the intestine as well. Maybe use a condom until this heals?


We had PIV yesterday morning after the prolonged treatment cycle she went thru for this stubborn yeast infection. It went well. Her natural lubrication is coming back (didn't need a lube) and it was enjoyable. She's still a little sore but it's not for a yeast infection so much as soreness for having the infection for such a long time.

I know people thought we may be passing it back and forth. I think it was one long continuous infection that never truly went away that was the culprit. We're still taking it slow but so far so good.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ChargingCharlie said:


> This calendar year to date - 1 (one). If I was a betting man, I would be willing to place a big wager that this number will not change the rest of the year.
> 
> FYI, the count for last year - zero.


You need to listen to what she's telling you.


----------



## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> This calendar year to date - 1 (one). If I was a betting man, I would be willing to place a big wager that this number will not change the rest of the year.
> 
> FYI, the count for last year - zero.


I started out at 1 in February (as you can see the first post in this massive thread). Now I have lost count - I too can attest to a zero year. I started this thread because I was fed up with the frustration and since then things have changed dramatically as I have now lost count and not even wanting to keep count. That's the whole point of this - if you can count, you have a problem. So what's different this time? This time I made it about us - not me, not her but us. I showed understanding of why she withheld and also let it be known that I can't continue with a handful of obligatory charity nights. What I have come to discover is that she does in fact want a healthy sex life and for the most part expects me to initiate and seems to be that the way of initiation is important . She dealt with childhood s#!t that is awful - the point is - you can't punish the LD partner and should try to understand, show patience, make the effort to change yourself all for the goal of coming together - it takes plenty of trial and error but persistence sure does help. I would hate to think that I could have just given up because sex with your wife - loving, intimate sex is better than anything I could imagine 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

My first marriage was largely sexless. It started out with a low frequency (somehow, saying "I do" became "I don't"), and over the years (> 25 total) gradually declined to where any in a year was a major event. That and other problems finally became too much (I don't give up easily!), and I left.

I soon met someone truly compatible about 13 years ago. Her marriage was largely sexless as well, not by her preference. The first five years or so we had sex at least 700 times a year. Thereafter, it was at least 500 times a year. We've had a real "slump" the last few years, down to under 500 but averaging a bit more than daily, I'd guess. Age is starting to slow us down.

So, sometimes there is life after marriage and divorce, and sometimes that life is another, better marriage.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Well, not quite time for my update but my 46th birthday was Saturday and no sex, no kiss ... not even a "happy birthday". Probably my fault ... or should I say, I was the reason for it. She went grocery shopping on Friday night. Actually, that was kind of a big deal since I usually do the grocery shopping but my daughters wanted to surprise me with a treat for Saturday so she went with my oldest daughter while I stayed home with my youngest daughter. I gave her a strict budget, telling her that we can't go over. We went over the shopping list and I told her to hold off on a couple of the bigger ticket items until next week. I just spent about 7K in the last two weeks in unplanned expenses and we HAVE to be on budget ... there's no room for error for a few months. Well, she completely ignored me and went way over budget, even getting the big ticket items I told her to hold off on. Well, I didn't yell ... I even told her ... I don't want to yell and get all upset about this but we had an amount we AGREED on right before you left and you completely ignored me. So ... she basically went ahead and ignored me the rest of the weekend too.

I'm feeling rather ... fatalistic ... about intimacy for the rest of my life. These birthdays are accumulating. I'll get over it, I suppose, but that is where my head is right now unfortunately. Some of these threads and posts about very fortunate people and their active sex lives are a little hard to read sometimes.

That said, my daughters snuggled and spoiled me all weekend. On that point, I am very fortunate.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Horizon said:


> It was probably 1 time in May. I know it's time to move on I just don't have all the ducks line up. Getting there. At least I can see the funny side, there isn't anywhere else to go after such humiliation (other than right out the door).
> 
> Speaking of seriously, my WS has noted that the connection has gone and I should not expect it to return so soon. Hmmmm....when might it return? Guess who can't answer that one. (think I'll go and expand on my thread).


twice this month, yippee


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> My first marriage was largely sexless. It started out with a low frequency (somehow, saying "I do" became "I don't"), and over the years (> 25 total) gradually declined to where any in a year was a major event. That and other problems finally became too much (I don't give up easily!), and I left.
> 
> I soon met someone truly compatible about 13 years ago. Her marriage was largely sexless as well, not by her preference. The first five years or so we had sex at least 700 times a year. Thereafter, it was at least 500 times a year. We've had a real "slump" the last few years, down to under 500 but averaging a bit more than daily, I'd guess. Age is starting to slow us down.
> 
> So, sometimes there is life after marriage and divorce, and sometimes that life is another, better marriage.



How does life feel with that great a sex rate? I cannot remember, but I seem to remember that every day was a good day, my thinking and mental clarity was razor sharp, ability to recall, etc. I don't remember a downside. Oh, I also felt better in my body and my muscles looked better.


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## Bluto_B (Aug 19, 2013)

tryingtochange said:


> I have to say this post has made me so sad. Some people don t understand that sex is way more than just intercourse its one of the most important things in a marriage. I have always percieve it as a way to help the emotional bond with my husband..beside the fact it should be fun and exciting and passionate!!! Its a mood enhancers it keeps men from getting prostate cancer!!!! I can not preach enough how important it is...men percieve sex as love and honestly would a quickie really kill you ladies???? It makes him happy and feel wanted. Throw him down on the bed and if he lacks experience show him teach him or her for that matter there are books or movies that show and explain everything!!! Go to sex shops together its fun and embarrassing but this is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with make him or her happy....rant done...words of advise want to keep your spouse,,,go have sex and learn and ignite the passion..


I have to say I really appreciated your post. I'm glad to see that some people understand that the importance is beyond just the pleasure of the moment. 

I will share, however, that many women (and likely some men) haven't been taught that way. My wife once shared with me (early on in our marriage) that just before we were married, her mother told her that there was no such thing as a "marital duty" to have sex. That if she didn't feel like it, she shouldn't do it. Well, she learned that lesson VERY well. We've been married almost 20 years, and I can literally count on one hand the # of times we've had sex in the last 5 or 6 years.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*If it's of any passing interest, I've successfully multiplied my originally posted 2013 tally by 7 ~

7 X 0 = 0

But my dear STBXW seems to be setting world records at it!

Separation/Divorce Proceedings Now Entering Month No. 28 With No Discernible End In Sight!*


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

I struck out again tonight. Pushing 3 weeks with no discernible end in sight.

And my birthday was in there.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> I struck out again tonight. Pushing 3 weeks with no discernible end in sight.
> 
> And my birthday was in there.


Feel ya buddy.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *If it's of any passing interest, I've successfully multiplied my originally posted 2013 tally by 7 ~
> 
> 7 X 0 = 0
> 
> ...


Got your, err, back Arbitrator. 

New GF. 2-3 times a night, 4 nights a week for 6 weeks. That's 48-72 times this year (check my math). More than my wife of 15 years and I had total. 

Guys (and gals), there's a whole new life out there!


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> Got your, err, back Arbitrator.
> 
> New GF. 2-3 times a night, 4 nights a week for 6 weeks. That's 48-72 times this year (check my math). More than my wife of 15 years and I had total.
> 
> Guys (and gals), there's a whole new life out there!


How much of a difference has it made you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> Got your, err, back Arbitrator.
> 
> New GF. 2-3 times a night, 4 nights a week for 6 weeks. That's 48-72 times this year (check my math). More than my wife of 15 years and I had total.
> 
> *Guys (and gals), there's a whole new life out there*!


Yes there is, have said it too many times here, there is life after divorce from a sexless marriage. But people have to reach that point on their own, often a sexless marriage is created over a long time and the ending of it can also take a long time.

Qty of sex for me is still at 7-10 times per week, 2 years down the track with the wonderful Mr H. I still have the odd moment when I freak out about my past with the ex but those times are far and few between now. 

But the numbers are now insignificant. At first I thought it was all about us being HD compatible, today it is all about the amazing connection we have, the sensuality, the fun, the extreme desire to be with each other. 

It was never really about the lack of sex in my past marriage, it was about the lack of love and having my needs met. About being with a partner that said he loved me but his inaction showed the opposite. Honestly I read the stories around here and feel so sad for people, the reality is that these mismatched situations will not work out and each day lived being unfulfilled and unhappy is another wasted day out of your life.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

What did I say last time? Add one to that. 10 for the year maybe?


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

treyvion said:


> How much of a difference has it made you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Honestly, it's made a huge difference. 

A sexless marriage makes you feel unloved, unattractive, unappreciated, invalidated...I could keep going but I think all of you in this thread get it. 

Now, I feel attractive, desirable and my self confidence is through the roof. I feel like a man again. 

I'm in no way advocating divorce. It's a horrible experience and I loved my wife unconditionally - in the end she divorced me. We lost our connection and she still probably doesn't get why.


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> We lost our connection and she still probably doesn't get why.


And that's the sad part, isn't it? 

I mean, seriously, that one act, which from 50,000 feet up looks so small in the grand scheme of things, is so huge when it isn't there.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> And that's the sad part, isn't it?
> 
> I mean, seriously, that one act, which from 50,000 feet up looks so small in the grand scheme of things, is so huge when it isn't there.


It's the tie that binds. It's the one thing you can't do with anyone else. 

I disagree, though, with it being a small act at any level. If you minimize it so will your SO and give them validation for holding out. 

GF and I would both be considered HD and both come from sexless marriages. When we talked about this I let her know then that I'll never be in a sexless marriage/relationship again. The smile on her face was blinding.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> It's the tie that binds. It's the one thing you can't do with anyone else.
> 
> I disagree, though, with it being a small act at any level. If you minimize it so will your SO and give them validation for holding out.
> 
> GF and I would both be considered HD and both come from sexless marriages. When we talked about this I let her know then that I'll never be in a sexless marriage/relationship again. The smile on her face was blinding.


I said that very thing to my Husband and I meant it 100%. We were sexless for 5 years of our marriage. We chose to R and that was one of my dealbreakers. I will never be in the place again. Those who are in that horrible place have no idea what its like to come full circle. I will never be that accepting of that kind of life ever again.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *If it's of any passing interest, I've successfully multiplied my originally posted 2013 tally by 7 ~
> 
> 7 X 0 = 0
> 
> ...


*Please! Quickly! Would someone be so kind as to give me a brief refresher course on it?:

Now you put "what" into "what?"*


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> I struck out again tonight. Pushing 3 weeks with no discernible end in sight.
> 
> *And my birthday was in there.*


Sorry man. That has to sting!


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> Honestly, it's made a huge difference.
> 
> A sexless marriage makes you feel unloved, unattractive, unappreciated, invalidated...I could keep going but I think all of you in this thread get it.
> 
> ...


So let me guess. You even LOOK better. Your recall is better, your self confidence is better, there is almost no downside, huh?


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Sorry man. That has to sting!


Yeah, not a pleasant feeling.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Sorry man. That has to sting!


Wish I was at 3 weeks!


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

KendalMintcake said:


> No she is by no means in attractive, I would go as far to say she could be in a magazine as a model. I have not gained weight, I am slightly below average for my height. She has more help than 99% of people raising kids. Yes I do romantic things frequently - back rubs, unsolicited flowers the works. Nothing works!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No one will really be able to tell you why but her. Get to the real reason, whatever that is. No guessing.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Holland said:


> Yes there is, have said it too many times here, there is life after divorce from a sexless marriage. But people have to reach that point on their own, often a sexless marriage is created over a long time and the ending of it can also take a long time.
> 
> Qty of sex for me is still at 7-10 times per week, 2 years down the track with the wonderful Mr H. I still have the odd moment when I freak out about my past with the ex but those times are far and few between now.
> 
> ...


This is the same conclusion I have come to as well. I am now matched with a woman who is physically, mentally, and emotionally a match for me, and all of the pieces have come together perfectly.

We have been together for over a year now, and the quantity has only increased from quite a lot to begin with. And it is always quality. I really do think it has everything to do with the connection we have on every level.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Big mistake - I pulled a subtle Father's Day hint, no response. But if I'm a good boy and just shut up about it, which I all but have, then who knows what might happen this weekend.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

All I asked for my birthday was morning sex...I got morning sex, afternoon sex, evening bj, and bedtime sex...


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## Low EQ (Jul 16, 2013)

Sex frequency this specific year (2013) fluctuates wildly because she was pregnant to our second until June.

First semester was excellent or near excellent considering the existence of a toddler girl in the house; 2-3 times a week. I was actually inside here at the time the year changed, complete with fireworks and everything. Best New Year's Eve ever. 

So there were about 30-35 times during this period. Almost all of them top-quality sex, although of course not particularly rough. 

During the second semester, which was the third semester of her pregnancy, sex was forbidden by the doctor. Zero times. For about three months. 

During the final week doctor said it was OK (recommended in fact) to have sex if she wanted to. But she was understandably not quite in the mood, what with an enormous belly making every move difficult and the pregnancy hemorrhoids and the exhaustion caused by spending the entire day with a toddler which had realized everything about the pregnancy and was furiously jealous. So we only did it twice, mostly because she was sick and tired of being pregnant and was hoping that having sex could speed up things [I've checked whether this is the case: it isn't. Opted to tell her after menopause.]. 

After birth we had to wait for six weeks of course, which turned out to be seven and a half weeks. Since then, it has been about a month, and 4 times. About once every week, give or take a few days. Mostly give, I'd say. And only the last time was what I'd call quality sex. [Very good quality, in fact. I would even go as far as calling it sex that would be rated a good 9/10 if it were quality porn  ] 

So I'd say around 40 times this year, overall. But that, as you see, wouldn't really reveal much. Because those times belong in four distinct groups, each with vastly different patterns of frequency, acts, mood, relationship dynamics and external constraints. 

I am not very optimistic about our sex life however, because it is very rare for a three year old and a newborn to sleep concurrently (a prerequisite). Last month, with the 4 times, it was my summer vacation, with 25 days of leave since I was owed time off from 2011 and 2012. Now I've got back to work, which greatly reduces our chances of finding the right time, and we are both exhausted (me from work, her from taking care of a toddler and a newborn). In a couple of months her maternity leave will end, too. So I think I should be expecting once every month, maybe even less. 

I also notice that her sex drive is seriously reduced. We've even gone out on our own two Saturday nights last month, leaving the kids to her parents. She expressed (and fulfilled) no desire for sex on those nights. I understand this is normal so soon after pregnancy, seen her sex drive almost disappear after our firstborn, and back with a vengeance after a few months. This time, so far, it is much better.


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## FLGator (Mar 26, 2013)

Going on 10 months.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

I can't give an exact number but we are probably at about 10 times this year. We have had sex once in the last six weeks.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Average, 3-4 times per week.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Wife off to GNO so time for my monthly status update:

January - 1
February - 0
March - 0
April - 0
May - 2
June - 1
July - 1 (quickie at beginning of month)
August - 0

Total: 5

It is what it is. 

On the plus side ... this is the best total in years. The other thing is that it's been 18 months since we reconciled after a separation and we get along better now than we have in years. She makes a lot of comments that tell me she is planning for us to spend the rest of our lives this way. Seems to me the elephant in the room is being ignored. 

I'm in a catch-22 with that ... I've given myself a time limit for fixing things but if I say anything that makes me sound uncommitted, she will not work on things ... and if I don't say anything, she just ignores the problems that need to get fixed. I'm all for the idea that happiness is often a choice but that doesn't have to mean ignoring those things that need improvement.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Wife off to GNO so time for my monthly status update:
> 
> January - 1
> February - 0
> ...


Sh!t, that's worse than me, just, wish you well fella. A few years back I might have had a shot at taking the masturbation cumulative title but even that's gone south.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

Many posts here mentioning 'subtle hints' on birthdays etc. the best thing to do seems is be is make an obvious assertion instead - example - 'what would you like for your birthday?' Answer - 'Please don't buy anything please! - all I need is an old pair of fishnets that I can tear off your legs!' That one liner speaks volumes and confirms you desire in a pretty nice way. It's honest and has the potential to rekindle some of that old flame - try it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

KendalMintcake said:


> Many posts here mentioning 'subtle hints' on birthdays etc. the best thing to do seems is be is make an obvious assertion instead - example - 'what would you like for your birthday?' Answer - 'Please don't buy anything please! - all I need is an old pair of fishnets that I can tear off your legs!' That one liner speaks volumes and confirms you desire in a pretty nice way. It's honest and has the potential to rekindle some of that old flame - try it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"Subtle Hints"?


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## Shazz1991 (Jul 31, 2011)

I've lost count but we have sex at least once most days and have done since we got married (and before!) except for one week when I went on holiday without him. Problem is I now have to go away for work during the week - don't know how how many weeks yet but could be months- and I don't know how I will survive (or whether I trust myself!).


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

18 for the year


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

Well, things have changed for the better. I'm up to 4 this year. 1 in August and 3 for this month alone! :smthumbup:


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## Aldrin (Aug 25, 2013)

KendalMintcake said:


> It's mid February - couples in normal relationships should have had sex about 18 times by now this year. I myself am at 1. Woopidy doo!. I told my wife a few weeks ago that I was not going to live in a sexless marriage - she begged and pleaded she would do anything. A few nights later it happened. Now 6 weeks into the year looking at the big picture it's same ole same ole. We had a night off from the kids the other night and guess what 12 hours before their departure the sickness began to set in. I told her don't worry as soon as the kids get back you should start recovering. So tired of this. Anybody else here had sex more than once this year? If so, I am jealous!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do have sex more than once a year but I attribute it to my negotiation skills, sheer luck, sex prayer shrine, sex rain dance chants and the planets/moon all aligning at the same time. Even with all that voodoo I get maybe a 1 intimate experience a month... maybe. So put me down for 9, heck 10 so I'm not so depressed.

Same deal w/ me, we have this huge discussion, she starts out denying it, total militant LD mode, breaks down admits it all finally because it's impossible to defend, is desperate to fix things and just to stop talking about it, even wanting sex right then and there, and once I sort of buy in to it, once I give in and say, gee maybe this time I got through, it's just a matter of time before we're right back to the same chicken**** arrangement. Sometimes the change doesn't even last days or weeks. 

So last night when she could tell I was sulking and pissed off all day, she tried to do a pre-emptive sex w/ me because I could tell she could tell how pissed I was about the previous night when she told me I had high expectations and essentially rejected me for the millionth time after several days of zero intimacy. Not to mention years of counseling, time, energy and money. Then proceeds to snore away within 1-2 minutes as my self-esteem crushes in on itself with the weight of 1000 black holes.

So I said no to the sex last night when she tried it, I said I need a break from it and I don't think it's healthy for me to engage in any type of sex in this relationship dynamic. I'd rather just go without until your ready. 

Guess whose sulking today.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Aldrin,
Does the dynamic described below apply to the way your situation evolved? 


In a long term relatinship the ideal emotional temperature is one that BOTH people are comfortable with. Couples often “fight” for decades over the “thermostat” setting in the relationship. He likes it really warm and constantly shows and wants to be shown love. She is likes it cooler and dislikes constantly being barraged with “love” as it makes her feel emotionally crowded. She starts seeing him as “clingy and insecure” and she withdraws. He clings harder, she pulls back further feeling ever more crowded. Sex dies and he frantically tries to raise the temperature using an ever increasing stream of love. She loses respect and ends it or has an affair. 
When you overheat someone with too much love, THEIR natural reaction is to try to “cool off” by giving you less love and less OR by provoking conflict to get you to go BACK UP. And they often reduce/stop having sex with you because when they already feel overheated/claustrophobic the LAST thing they want is the intense closeness of sex. Below is an example of badly mismatched thermostat settings.

The WARM/HOT partner wants to “raise” the temperature so they:
1.	Are almost always saying ILY or IAILWY first
2.	Typically initiate calls/texts/emails when apart/one or both are at work
3.	Make “peace” after a fight even when your partner clearly wronged you 
4.	Walk around visibly angry/VERY angry after a fight (this comes across as “I am furious that you – the person I LOVE SO MUCH – is doing x,y,z to ME
5.	Anxiously keep trying to make up BEFORE they are ready to forgive you, when you were in the wrong because you cannot bear having them angry with you
6.	Are mostly/always initiating physical contact (hugs, kisses, touches, groping)
7.	When anxious you initiate “talks” about the R, typically to “fix” them/their behavior 
8.	Do MORE, sometimes WAY MORE than your fair share of housework/overall relationship work. 
9.	Put their needs ahead of yours whenever there is a priority conflict
10.	Are constantly seeking their approval
11.	Show anxiety or fear when they are angry/frustrated with you
12.	Initiate sex even when their body language radiates a “lack” of interest/desire. Pout, sulk or get angry when they tactfully decline sex
The COOL partner wants less warmth so they:
1.	React irritably/with hostility to HOT behaviors such as:
a.	Discussions about the R
b.	Requests for sex. An irritated “NO” when asked for sex is an attempt to throw a bucket of ice water on a painfully overheated moment
2.	Often behave more and more disrespectfully to their warmer partner and often steadily deprioritize both the partner and the R hoping to lower the temperature
3.	Provoke their partner to create conflict and space

The Warm partner thinks they are repeatedly conveying “I LOVE YOU” with all this activity. The Cooler partner actually hears it as a question, repeated over and over ad nauseum: “Do YOU love ME”? Imagine if you replaced every loving act by literally asking “Do you love me”? How well do you think THAT would fly. 

The core message this thermostat mismatch sends to the cooler partner is: I DON’T DESERVE YOU. And over time your behavior convinces them you are right.





Aldrin said:


> I do have sex more than once a year but I attribute it to my negotiation skills, sheer luck, sex prayer shrine, sex rain dance chants and the planets/moon all aligning at the same time. Even with all that voodoo I get maybe a 1 intimate experience a month... maybe. So put me down for 9, heck 10 so I'm not so depressed.
> 
> Same deal w/ me, we have this huge discussion, she starts out denying it, total militant LD mode, breaks down admits it all finally because it's impossible to defend, is desperate to fix things and just to stop talking about it, even wanting sex right then and there, and once I sort of buy in to it, once I give in and say, gee maybe this time I got through, it's just a matter of time before we're right back to the same chicken**** arrangement. Sometimes the change doesn't even last days or weeks.
> 
> ...


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

19 for the year, but okay by me. Since it is predictable & non earth moving, it's really no loss either way


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I must be on 12-13... can't remember! We have sex now roughly every 3 weeks/1 month... last love-making session was abysmal... she just stuck it in after some foreplay and came after 3 minutes... I came too, but I thought to myself: that was really s***... maybe I should do without...


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I used to think that way too, but sex is very important in a marriage, even if isn't daily or weekly, it is stilled needed, otherwise you're just friends.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> I used to think that way too, but sex is very important in a marriage, even if isn't daily or weekly, it is stilled needed, otherwise you're just friends.


the eternal optimistic...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Can't remember... its been so long.

I hope this does not lead me to (further) insanity!


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Longest stretch with out right now in the year and a half we've been together...four days. She had a fairly major surgery last Thursday, and she wanted to last night, but some things happened and we couldn't...tonight for sure though.

It was quite funny in post op recovery with anesthetic in her still, her asking the nurse when she can have sex again. The nurse seemed a bit taken by the question, and directed the answer at me saying it will be a couple of weeks since she really needs to keep her head from any jarring movements and such. It was clear the nurse thought the question was because I was pressuring my STBW about it. Well, my STBW made it clear to the nurse that she was the one interested in the answer, and didn't want to wait that long...


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

ummmm....errrr....ummm....whatever i said last time


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## pierrematoe (Sep 6, 2013)

Zero in 2013
Maybe 4-5 in 2012

Going to bring this to a head shortly as this can't go on much longer otherwise I'm gonna lose it


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

The fact that this topic exists just boggles my mind. Married 25 + years and I've never counted. But I'm starting to wonder. This week was a no sex week, but that's pretty rare for me. You all keep saying that sex is important to keeping the marriage, but to me it is the thing that drives us apart. I hardly dare talk about it. I keep thinking if my expectations were lower, would I miss it less? I'm thinking about another reduction. maybe every other week or three x a month. I just don't know. I wish my partner would participate in a discussion about it.

M N


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## Overwhelmed in NE (Sep 20, 2013)

There is no way I can read through all the posts on the last 50 or so pages, but wondering if I "win" in this game you don't want to win... It has been over 3.5 years since my H and I have had sex. Obviously one of many issues in our so called marriage...


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Sadly, the "winners" have over 10 years sexless.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Time for my monthly update. Counting is real easy.

January - 1
February - 0
March - 0
April - 0
May - 2
June - 1
July - 1 (quickie at beginning of month)
August - 0
September - 0

Total: 5

Well ... certainly there are others in worse situations so who am I to complain.


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## 1971 (Mar 7, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Time for my monthly update. Counting is real easy.
> 
> January - 1
> February - 0
> ...


Hopefully October is a good month for you !!


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## DesertRat (May 1, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Time for my monthly update. Counting is real easy.
> 
> January - 1
> February - 0
> ...


Nice. Here's my count:

January - 0
February - 0
March - 0
April - 1
May - 0
June - 0
July - 1
August - 1
September - 0

I'm worse off than you. In fairness though my wife was pregnant all year up until August. Last year before pregnancy we had sex once almost every month. I believe it was about 10 times last year.


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## agua (Oct 2, 2013)

I have a spreadsheet I use to control some stuff, sort of like a diary. Money being spent, weight, reminders, and so on. I secretly paint the days I actually had sex yellow, just so I know how long it has been.

This year of 2013, it has come to the staggering mark of 8.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

I'm on a roll, been three times in the past 9 days. Not sure why, but I've been a real Richard Edward towards her lately, maybe she likes it


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

1971 said:


> Hopefully October is a good month for you !!


Positive thinking is always good! Unfortunately I fear it won't be better. 1) We haven't even so much as touched each other in two months for various reasons, and 2) her mom is staying with us for two of those weeks and she won't do anything with her mom around.

The whole thing just casts this enormous pall over my life that is tough to get out from under. It's going to be the end of me.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

Hi,
Long time reader new to posting.

Thought i'd start here as it seems appropriate.

Eight for the year and three of those were during one week of vacation. All were pretty boring involving little effort on her part, even the ones she initiated, "hey want to have some quick fun".


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## 1971 (Mar 7, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Positive thinking is always good! Unfortunately I fear it won't be better. 1) We haven't even so much as touched each other in two months for various reasons, and 2) her mom is staying with us for two of those weeks and she won't do anything with her mom around.
> 
> The whole thing just casts this enormous pall over my life that is tough to get out from under. It's going to be the end of me.



It isn't that much better at my place, I can't make my husband do anything he doesn't want to !!!!


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

1971 said:


> It isn't that much better at my place, I can't make my husband do anything he doesn't want to !!!!


Sorry to hear that ... I didn't know.

Funny thing is I'm sure my wife would say the same thing about me. Here's how it went down: At the beginning of our marriage, I wanted to have sex daily. She would accept weekly at most. After time, I became conditioned to weekly and she would accept monthly. She would have all sorts of reasons ... I'm not doing this or that for her in our relationship ... always something I'm not doing perfectly ... continuously putting it just out of my reach and putting the burden on me. I remember my brother moving in with us for a couple months. He had just moved to where we lived and needed a place to stay while he got on his feet. This was many years ago and before our real marital problems started. He made the observation that he didn't get it because I was bending over backwards for her and didn't know what else I could do. My brother saw more action during his stay with us than I did, lol (and I would say I'm a few notches higher on the sex ranking than he is  )

After time, I just conditioned myself to live without it. Over time, with the rejection, her tremendous weight gain (at least double her marital weight), our changing priorities, marital problems, her bouts with depression, etc. ... I just don't want to anymore. Put it differently ... I want to ... I want that in my life and I have a pretty good sex drive ... but I can't seem to get back to that place with her. The few times we did this year was after tremendous effort by me to get back to that place but I couldn't keep it going forever ... a whole lot of effort with minimal payback and no real change in our "normal".

I wish that was a big deal to her. The lack of affection is a big deal, I know, but certainly sex is not and it never has been as long as I've known her. If it was a big deal to her then maybe we would have a starting place ... a place where both of us know where we want to be and can work together to get there. It doesn't bother her all that much. She could live just fine without it and so she has no real motivation to change it. She is just fine with saying "oh well, can't make him do anything he doesn't want to do" and make no real effort. The only time we ever talk about it is when I bring it up and then I usually end up doing all of the talking. I am sure that in her mind, this is my issue and only my issue.

It is not a healthy situation.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Still batting .000 and richly celibate since March, 2011. The divorce manager placed me on the DL list, so now that the thing is all but finalized, I may have to make inquiries from all of you vastly experienced veterans as to what it is that I'm supposed to do!

Old habits just seem to die "hard," or so I wish!*


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *Still batting .000 and richly celibate since March, 2011. The divorce manager placed me on the DL list, so now that the thing is all but finalized, I may have to make inquiries from all of you vastly experienced veterans as to what it is that I'm supposed to do!
> 
> Old habits just seem to die "hard," or so I wish!*


Well, that's progress! I wouldn't know what to do either ... haven't been available for 23 years or so. I would guess it is a lot like riding a bike ... but initially I'm guessing it will be ... awkward ....


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well, that's progress! I wouldn't know what to do either ... haven't been available for 23 years or so. I would guess it is a lot like riding a bike ... but initially I'm guessing it will be ... awkward ....


I got out of a 20 year relationship, 17 years married, last four years sexless. It was a bit awkward at first but not bad. I've been with my STBW for the last year and a half, and the sexual chemistry has been off the charts since day 1. 10-15 times a week, quality every time, and it just keeps getting better as time goes on. Probably because everything else in the relationship is good too. Plus it doesn't hurt that she just genuinely likes sex


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Last day of the month. Halloween. 21st wedding anniversary tonight. Going to bed (alone) so time for an update:

January - 1
February - 0
March - 0
April - 0
May - 2
June - 1
July - 1 (quickie at beginning of month)
August - 0
September - 0
October - 0

Total: 5


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Jan.-0
Feb-0
March-1
April-0
May-0
June-0
July-3 Fertility treatments
August-0
Sept-0
Oct.-1

If not for having to have sex in a rush to conceive a child in the midst of fertility treatments, I would probably be at 2 or 3 for the year. The year before that came in at about 15 total times. If I was to have frequent sex again, I may not know what to do. Each time lasts 5 minutes or less.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Gotta ask why you are trying to impregnate someone who doesn't want to sleep with you. I don't understand that.

I'm at 17. I consider that pathetic for the amount of thought/energy I've devoted this year to improving this number.

I'm actually at the point where I'm questioning whether the entire trajectory of my adult life has been one long pointless mindf*ck trying to get my wife to be more interested in me. There are so many other things I could have done with all of this mental energy.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Anon1111 said:


> Gotta ask why you are trying to impregnate someone who doesn't want to sleep with you. I don't understand that.
> 
> I'm at 17. I consider that pathetic for the amount of thought/energy I've devoted this year to improving this number.
> 
> I'm actually at the point where I'm questioning whether the entire trajectory of my adult life has been one long pointless mindf*ck trying to get my wife to be more interested in me. *There are so many other things I could have done with all of this mental energy.*


Exactly!!


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm done with the whole sex thing, like it was already mentioned for what it is, it isn't worth all of the mental anguish anymore. When you long for a steak dinner but only get a plain hamburger, you lose interest & desire. We get along, cuddle & are fun companions so I've just accepted it. I'm 49, so I don't care anymore.
You can't force, guilt or threaten for intimacy, and if you think you can, prepare for a lot of pain. Loving & being "in love" aren't the same thing. Sex & marriage go hand in hand, when one isn't good, the other follows. 17 years has taught me this, I was just a slow learner.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

At the end of the day all you can do is be more self sufficient. Get in shape. Be happy and confident, even if you have to psyche yourself into it. Execute a 180 to save yourself. If she comes round great, if not you have to divorce.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

It is a bit of being in denial. I kept thinking that if I improved myself enough that she would come around. We had planned on having a child for years. However, when the test came out positive the reality hit. I am excited about being dad. It sounds immature but the pregnancy really got me thinking. Sex is quite rare now and very unsatisfying. It is only bound to get worse. From what I have read on this forum, I can reasonably expect to go sexless for the year after the child and that would effectively end this union.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> Jan.-0
> Feb-0
> March-1
> April-0
> ...


You're trying to have a kid in a sexless marriage? Wow.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> It is a bit of being in denial. I kept thinking that if I improved myself enough that she would come around. We had planned on having a child for years. However, when the test came out positive the reality hit. I am excited about being dad. It sounds immature but the pregnancy really got me thinking. Sex is quite rare now and very unsatisfying. It is only bound to get worse. From what I have read on this forum, I can reasonably expect to go sexless for the year after the child and that would effectively end this union.


In my case, when we had children (who are now 9 and 12), it went from bad to worse. She made our children her top priority in her life to the exclusion of everything else and I am now way down the list. I am simply the provider.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> Jan.-0
> Feb-0
> March-1
> April-0
> ...


Why my man? Why? Why are you conceiving a child with this woman? You know its going to get worse and you know it will end. 

I had a child with my wife and sex was good. It has dropped considerably. Its not as bad as yours, but even so its pretty much all duty sex which sucks. If it wasnt for my child, I would have left long ago.

You sir, are digging your own grave I'm afraid.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Well if you were to multiply what my answer was back in January on this thread by say, 250? 

Well, it would still be a resounding "0!"*


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> Why my man? Why? Why are you conceiving a child with this woman? You know its going to get worse and you know it will end.
> 
> I had a child with my wife and sex was good. It has dropped considerably. Its not as bad as yours, but even so its pretty much all duty sex which sucks. If it wasnt for my child, I would have left long ago.
> 
> You sir, are digging your own grave I'm afraid.


Yeah, I know. The lightbulb came on in August after the child was conceived. Before then, I just kept thinking that I needed to be more manly and more this and more that. I needed to put more effort into it. Child was conceived and one night she came into the room naked and I could not have cared less. Procrastination mixed with denial and now it is going to bite me in the you-know-where. Then it occurred to me that with the child on the way, that the nails were starting to be pounded into the coffin. I have not initiated in almost a year and life carries on the same as it did before.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Two more ticks since....whatever the last thing I said was. That was a few weeks back. Once a week for two weeks after nothing for a few months and now nothing again. A kind of torture. I don't bother hinting or anything now.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Horizon said:


> *Two more ticks since*....whatever the last thing I said was. That was a few weeks back. Once a week for two weeks after nothing for a few months and now nothing again. A kind of torture. I don't bother hinting or anything now.


Yesterday morning for me...


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Sex isn't rewarding, unless you're married to your "soul mate". Doesn't sound like many are or they wouldn't be here.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

I think about it a lot. I'd be in the top 3 for thinking about it I reckon.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I think people get too wrapped up in numbers. Ask yourself, with the state of your relationship, would daily or weekly sex really change anything? It usually just becomes a chore done out of guilt, that makes things worse. I do think quantity of sex does serve as a marriage strength gauge.


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## mr hillbilly (Jul 16, 2012)

I know reading all these other posts makes it look like I'm bragging but it's all relative. I'm at 63 for the year with usually sex once or twice a week but I frequently go 1-2 weeks with nothing. It's been a major issue in our life and I haven't handled it well.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Got into bed with my STBW last night and were just laying there talking and kissing a bit. She aksed me if I just wanted to cuddle up and go to sleep. After a while, I told her I'd be fine just kissing and making out a bit before we went to sleep. She playfully asked 'Don't you want me?' as her hands started to wander...ended up being our fourth time of the day   I love that woman


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> Got into bed with my STBW last night and were just laying there talking and kissing a bit. She aksed me if I just wanted to cuddle up and go to sleep. After a while, I told her I'd be fine just kissing and making out a bit before we went to sleep. She playfully asked 'Don't you want me?' as her hands started to wander...ended up being our fourth time of the day  I love that woman


Just rub it in dude, lol


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

mr hillbilly said:


> I know reading all these other posts makes it look like I'm bragging but it's all relative. I'm at 63 for the year with usually sex once or twice a week but I frequently go 1-2 weeks with nothing. It's been a major issue in our life and I haven't handled it well.


That may be a higher count than my last 15 years! 

Relative my butt!


No, I understand where you're coming from. How have you attempted to address the issue with her? Are they due to issues in your relationship or do those 1 to 2 week periods relate to other things going on in your life where it might not be her top priority.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

No kidding, but I'm happy for you. Work hard to keep it & don't think it is guaranteed forever.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> Got into bed with my STBW last night and were just laying there talking and kissing a bit. She aksed me if I just wanted to cuddle up and go to sleep. After a while, I told her I'd be fine just kissing and making out a bit before we went to sleep. She playfully asked 'Don't you want me?' as her hands started to wander...ended up being our fourth time of the day  I love that woman


You got me beat by a country mile. I'm lucky if I can get sex 5 times in a week. Normally just 3 or 4 times a week for us. Is 4 times in a day rare for you or is it somewhat common? 

Congrats though for the healthy sex life!


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

woundedwarrior said:


> I think people get too wrapped up in numbers. Ask yourself, with the state of your relationship, would daily or weekly sex really change anything? It usually just becomes a chore done out of guilt, that makes things worse. I do think quantity of sex does serve as a marriage strength gauge.


It is simply a barometer on the health of the relationship. For me, it has never been about sex or "getting off" and it never will be. I can take care of myself as far as that is concerned. 

I can't remember the name of the movie (Heath Ledger, Halle Berry) but there is a particularly sad scene where an escort shows up at the hotel room rented by the character played by Ledger. She walks in, they make small talk, she bends over a table, he does his thing, she thanks him and leaves. It is obviously a regularly scheduled thing. It clearly demonstrates the pain and loneliness in his life. He later commits suicide. If it was about sex, I could say "screw character" and do something like that. 

Not having sex is a better alternative for me than having sex with someone who couldn't care less about me. 

Like I said, it is simply a barometer. My wife and I don't sleep together (for practical reasons in addition to relationship issues). Our 21st anniversary came and went this week and I went to bed alone. We didn't kiss, hug or touch each other the whole day. I wished her a happy anniversary and told her I loved her and she responded in kind with her eyes turned away.

Just as a reminder, no more than a couple of hours ago I realized that my wife had come home from church with our two daughters and picked up her mother (who is staying with us for a couple of weeks) and left to go out to eat. She said nothing to me. No invitation. She did not tell me what they were doing or how long they would be gone. She just came back, confirming that they had gone out to eat. This is a normal occurrence but every time it happens, I feel that knife being twisted in a little bit further. That doesn't even get into the budgetary concerns (she is a SAHM and I am the sole provider) ... she just feels entitled to it. 

Intimacy is important to me. It is the time to bond. I want to share my love and feel loved. Actual sex for me is the ultimate level of intimacy but non-sexual intimacy is very important to me too and we have neither. Without that I feel undesired, unappreciated and unwanted. Not much of a man. I want to give all of myself to her and she couldn't care less. I am nothing more than a roommate, the father of her children and her provider. Yes, sex is fun but it is all of those other feelings that come along with it that I really miss.

A man who has that in his life feels alive. There is a reason that people who have healthy sex lives in a relationship live longer, healthier and happier lives.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Time for nookie 4x a day suggests that you have either solved some very pressing life problems (I.e. time after corporate America, your kids, or your house have sucked your clock dry), found ways around them (trust fund, lotto jackpot), or found ways to put regular life in the back-burner

Now back to picking up leaves from the backyard


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

john117 said:


> Time for nookie 4x a day suggests that you have either solved some very pressing life problems (I.e. time after corporate America, your kids, or your house have sucked your clock dry), found ways around them (trust fund, lotto jackpot), or found ways to put regular life in the back-burner
> 
> Now back to picking up leaves from the backyard


QFT

I have no idea how a person can manage that. As much as I bemoan having no sex in my life, I wouldn't have time for that. Between work, children, chores, errands, finances, continued education, etc. I am stretched for time as it is without having any sex. Maybe if I worked a job on the clock and lived in an apartment or was independently wealthy ... but otherwise, wow. I'd be happy with 2 or 3 times a week including weekends.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Depends also on ones definition of nookie. For us it's a movie or tv then some adult beverages then pre-game, nookie for an hour or two with the requisite candles music etc then postgame which, if nookie was good, usually means cooking an omelette at 3 am. Figure 3 hours min. Going to sleep at 4 and waking up at 7 is great if you're in college but not if you're 54.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

john117 said:


> Depends also on ones definition of nookie. For us it's a movie or tv then some adult beverages then pre-game, nookie for an hour or two with the requisite candles music etc then postgame which, if nookie was good, usually means cooking an omelette at 3 am. Figure 3 hours min. Going to sleep at 4 and waking up at 7 is great if you're in college but not if you're 54.


The last relationship I had before I met my wife took place while I was in a corporate training program for a new job ... my first career job after college. It was a fairly intensive program and there was a lot of take home work. Only about 2/3rds of the people who entered the program made it all the way through.

She was insatiable. She HAD to have sex daily multiple times. While on the one hand, it was awesome ... I also almost failed out of the program. It came to the point they had to have a talk with me. It was almost fortunate that she had a nails on chalkboard personality and I decided to call it off ... because otherwise I might not have passed the program. As it was, I rocked it out the rest of the way.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I can see a situation where you have sex four times in one day without it being too difficult. But the day would have fall in such a way that it falls on a weekend, you got your household chores done during the week and you don't have any other major plans for the day. Also, never discount the notion of the quickie where you are both up there and you just go at it - bam done in 10 minutes. But 2 times/day would be quite easy to accomplish though. Simply set the alarm a little early to get up before the kids do for school and for you to get ready for work and then again at night before going to bed when the kids are put to bed and/or the kids are done with HW and are doing their own thing.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I can see a situation where you have sex four times in one day without it being too difficult. But the day would have fall in such a way that it falls on a weekend, you got your household chores done during the week and you don't have any other major plans for the day. Also, never discount the notion of the quickie where you are both up there and you just go at it - bam done in 10 minutes. But 2 times/day would be quite easy to accomplish though. Simply set the alarm a little early to get up before the kids do for school and for you to get ready for work and then again at night before going to bed when the kids are put to bed and/or the kids are done with HW and are doing their own thing.


Even if my wife wanted to have sex with me ... she is not a 10 minute quickie kind of gal. She has a LD and needs a lot of warm-up time. It would have to be all about me in that case.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> It is simply a barometer on the health of the relationship. For me, it has never been about sex or "getting off" and it never will be. I can take care of myself as far as that is concerned.
> 
> I can't remember the name of the movie (Heath Ledger, Halle Berry) but there is a particularly sad scene where an escort shows up at the hotel room rented by the character played by Ledger. She walks in, they make small talk, she bends over a table, he does his thing, she thanks him and leaves. It is obviously a regularly scheduled thing. It clearly demonstrates the pain and loneliness in his life. He later commits suicide. If it was about sex, I could say "screw character" and do something like that.
> 
> ...


I'm curious as to why you didn't go to church with your family. Is this something you do often?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> > It is simply a barometer on the health of the relationship. For me, it has never been about sex or "getting off" and it never will be. I can take care of myself as far as that is concerned.
> ...


I am not religious. I am not an atheist but I don't subscribe to any particular religion. I was raused Lutheran. She was not raised in the church and she was not religious when we married but converted 7 or 8 years into our marriage. I am ok with that and do not have a problem with my children being raised in the church. She does subscribe to a rather fundamentalist view and that has caused problems for us. I do attend when my children are participating in some activity but I'm only there in support of them.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Even if my wife wanted to have sex with me ... she is not a 10 minute quickie kind of gal. She has a LD and needs a lot of warm-up time. It would have to be all about me in that case.


Ditto here. There are microwave women, pressure cooker women, crockpot women, and so on. My wife is the solar powered oven type person ))


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I am not religious. I am not an atheist but I don't subscribe to any particular religion. I was raused Lutheran. She was not raised in the church and she was not religious when we married but converted 7 or 8 years into our marriage. I am ok with that and do not have a problem with my children being raised in the church. She does subscribe to a rather fundamentalist view and that has caused problems for us. I do attend when my children are participating in some activity but I'm only there in support of them.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


The reason I asked is because I could understand how she and your kids might view it as you not participating in "family things". You make a choice to stay home and thus away from the family, Sunday after Sunday, something that clearly is important to your wife and kids. So I guess I wonder why you seemed upset that they excluded you when that's what you are doing? :scratchhead:


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> > It is simply a barometer on the health of the relationship. For me, it has never been about sex or "getting off" and it never will be. I can take care of myself as far as that is concerned.
> ...


If the question is really focused on my participation in family activities ... well, I feel I do that. I'm sure she would point out times that I haven't but I also feel she doesn't aporeciate all the times I have jumped through hoops to participate ... not because she asked but because I want to. A point of irritation with me is that she often takes advantage of it for her own selfish reasons ... to the point that as opposed to years past, I am now comfortable with saying no. Church is an exception ... I have consistently said no to that ... but I have also attended countless events during and after service and have consistently supported her when she needs help so that she could attend. Church is a huge part of her life.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> > I am not religious. I am not an atheist but I don't subscribe to any particular religion. I was raused Lutheran. She was not raised in the church and she was not religious when we married but converted 7 or 8 years into our marriage. I am ok with that and do not have a problem with my children being raised in the church. She does subscribe to a rather fundamentalist view and that has caused problems for us. I do attend when my children are participating in some activity but I'm only there in support of them.
> ...


Am I supposed to convert to christianity because they have? Seems like an odd thing ... changing what I believe so I can participate in that with the family.

She came home to pick up her atheist mom for lunch after church. I was in my home office. She could have asked if I wanted to go.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Am I supposed to convert to christianity because they have? Seems like an odd thing ... changing what I believe so I can participate in that with the family.
> 
> She came home to pick up her atheist mom for lunch after church. I was in my home office. She could have asked if I wanted to go.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


I don't know what you should do, I was bouncing my thoughts around that from her side perhaps she sees that you don't participate with the family in something that as you said is very important to her. There's many things that are important to my husband that I find blah but I go because it matters to him. He does the same for me. Do you see what I am getting at here? Again, I don't know what the answer is but it sounds like your unwillingness to support her in this is part of the problem.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I don't know what you should do, I was bouncing my thoughts around that from her side perhaps she sees that you don't participate with the family in something that as you said is very important to her. There's many things that are important to my husband that I find blah but I go because it matters to him. He does the same for me. Do you see what I am getting at here? Again, I don't know what the answer is but it sounds like your unwillingness to support her in this is part of the problem.


No, I know where you are going with that. I don't know what to say about it. The thing is that I have supported her to the best of my ability in regards to church. I simply have a very difficult time sitting in church service pretending to participate when I don't believe in the things going on. I would definitely not call it an unwillingness to support her in this. We weren't religious when we married. She converted and I fully supported her decision to do that. I participate in many of the church-related activities. I come home early from work, make dinner, help with homework and put the kids to bed so that she can attend bible study and other activities once or twice a week, sometimes more. I have a line item in our budget so she can make an offering. I go out to the store and buy food so she can bring them to her church functions. She will only allow christian music to play in the home and I have supported in her in that. I've helped host get togethers with her church friends. All of the friends in our social circle are people she's met through church. I've attended countless pitch-ins, picnics, camping trips, plays, etc. all through the church. When my youngest was really little, I would help out in the nursery so my wife could attend service. 

I mean if that is unwillingness to support her then wow ....

That said, there is something to your point. I do think that she feels I am not giving enough or that I want to and there is a lot of background to that. A lot of it has to do with our priorities being SO different they are almost incompatible. This is a problem that goes back to the beginning of our relationship and has only gotten worse as time has gone on.

I'll go back to something I've stated before. My brother lived with us for a couple of months way back near the beginning of our marriage. We had been married maybe 3 or 4 years at that point. There was a lot of stress in our marriage at that point too and we were not having sex. She was constantly unhappy with me. Always something I was doing or saying ... or something I wasn't doing or saying. I couldn't make sense of it and when I walked in the door after work, I wouldn't know what the issue of the day was going to be. I just knew I wasn't ... enough. I was talking about this with my brother as we were driving to work and he said that he had no idea what I could do because from his perspective I was bending over backwards trying to be whatever it was she wanted me to be.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The church is not the issue here, and if the wife was super LD before church then it's safe to assume the church is not the issue for her current state of LD-ness.

Having said this, I would consider any single aspect of a relationship that dwarfs all other aspects of the relationship as questionable. Whether it is golf, hanging out with guys, girls night out, FarmVille, work, the children, or even (spending too much time with) your spouse as red flags. The only exception I would make would be college and that is only because someone is footing the bill. 

A relationship is jus that, a relationship. It is not a symbiosis. One can be supportive up to a point but I would question any single activity sucking my life dry or causing distress.

Heavy duty marital warfare would be my suggestion, playing along works only for so long.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> No, I know where you are going with that. I don't know what to say about it. The thing is that I have supported her to the best of my ability in regards to church. I simply have a very difficult time sitting in church service pretending to participate when I don't believe in the things going on. I would definitely not call it an unwillingness to support her in this. We weren't religious when we married. She converted and I fully supported her decision to do that. I participate in many of the church-related activities. I come home early from work, make dinner, help with homework and put the kids to bed so that she can attend bible study and other activities once or twice a week, sometimes more. I have a line item in our budget so she can make an offering. I go out to the store and buy food so she can bring them to her church functions. She will only allow christian music to play in the home and I have supported in her in that. I've helped host get togethers with her church friends. All of the friends in our social circle are people she's met through church. I've attended countless pitch-ins, picnics, camping trips, plays, etc. all through the church. When my youngest was really little, I would help out in the nursery so my wife could attend service.
> 
> I mean if that is unwillingness to support her then wow ....
> 
> ...


Has she ever said what it is that you could be doing? Maybe there is something or maybe she is just an unhappy person who blames everybody else for it instead of fixing her own unhappiness. I hope you don't think I was blaming you. I am trying to understand the dynamic of what is going on.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Has she ever said what it is that you could be doing? Maybe there is something or maybe she is just an unhappy person who blames everybody else for it instead of fixing her own unhappiness. I hope you don't think I was blaming you. I am trying to understand the dynamic of what is going on.


No, I didn't take it as blame. I just wanted to give some more detail. I have a hard time understanding the dynamic as well. She is a hard read. She does not communicate the things that bother her and I'm not sure she can articulate it. 

Early on in our marriage, she went to counseling. I know that during her sessions she placed a lot of blame on me for things. The counselor brought me in for one of those sessions just to get a read on what was going on. Afterwards, the counselor told me that she didn't need to see me anymore but might ask that I come in occasionally. She felt the problems were misdirected towards me and she needed to work with my wife. At the time, this was a shock ... my wife had me truly believing that everything was my fault without being able to tell me exactly what that was.

She has worked hard over the years to become happy within herself. She appears to be a happy person. She is not a negative or critical person in any way. More recently we attended marriage counseling and the counselor observed that what my wife says and the actions that she takes are in conflict with each other. I don't know if her apparent happiness is just a wall she puts up but I suspect that's true.

She shared a post on facebook a couple of days ago that I thought perfectly described how she interacts with me. It said:

Don't ever mistake my silence for ignorance, my calmness for acceptance and my kindness for weakness.

When we talk, it is almost always one-sided. She listens but offers little in the way of feedback or answers. Over 21 years of marriage I have yet to figure out a way to read her mind.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

john117 said:


> The church is not the issue here, and if the wife was super LD before church then it's safe to assume the church is not the issue for her current state of LD-ness.
> 
> Having said this, I would consider any single aspect of a relationship that dwarfs all other aspects of the relationship as questionable. Whether it is golf, hanging out with guys, girls night out, FarmVille, work, the children, or even (spending too much time with) your spouse as red flags. The only exception I would make would be college and that is only because someone is footing the bill.
> 
> ...


Right, church is not the problem. I think her point was simply that my wife could view me as unsupportive of something that is very important to her. I know that I would feel a disconnect if my wife was unsupportive of something that was important to me. I don't think that this is the case ... I am as supportive as I can be ... to a point. I'm not changing my belief system to align with hers so that we can share that part of our lives together. That isn't what I signed up for.

I am not without fault. Early on there were several stretches where work dominated my focus. Projects or opportunities that demanded a considerable amount of attention on my part ... some of them made the difference between me keeping my job or not. Failing company, startup company, company takeover ... high stress situations. For her, the church and really children dominate her life. She has made her children her priority to the exclusion of everything else, including me.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> No, I didn't take it as blame. I just wanted to give some more detail. I have a hard time understanding the dynamic as well. She is a hard read. She does not communicate the things that bother her and I'm not sure she can articulate it.
> 
> Early on in our marriage, she went to counseling. I know that during her sessions she placed a lot of blame on me for things. The counselor brought me in for one of those sessions just to get a read on what was going on. Afterwards, the counselor told me that she didn't need to see me anymore but might ask that I come in occasionally. She felt the problems were misdirected towards me and she needed to work with my wife. At the time, this was a shock ... my wife had me truly believing that everything was my fault without being able to tell me exactly what that was.
> 
> ...


Any chance you could literally ask her "Hey, there seems to be a huge disconnect between us and I was wondering if you agree?". That question wouldn't put her on the defensive as it doesn't accuse her of anything. What do you think? Yes, you aren't a mind reader and thus need to ask her what's going on. She in turn needs to realize you aren't a mind reader and tell you.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Any chance you could literally ask her "Hey, there seems to be a huge disconnect between us and I was wondering if you agree?". That question wouldn't put her on the defensive as it doesn't accuse her of anything. What do you think? Yes, you aren't a mind reader and thus need to ask her what's going on. She in turn needs to realize you aren't a mind reader and tell you.


Big sigh. You know the one thing I've gotten better at is being blunt about those type of questions. I don't want to assume anything and I've gotten tired of tip-toeing around things. We've had countless discussions about how to get our marriage on track over the last 6 or 7 years and I probably hadn't phrased the question quite like that. I have asked that question in a number of other ways but not exactly like that. One thing I do know is that it is a question she will never ask so if I don't, we could spend the rest of our lives like this ... or we won't because I am this "><" close to filing for a divorce. I feel like I've run out of things to attempt but I will give that a try. Thanks!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

My wife's idea of a typical day is work 9 am to 9 pm, maybe an hour break to toss something together for dinner and an hour for exercise. Then TV till 12 then sleep till 830 next day (works from home). All other responsibilities like children shopping house maintenance etc are mine. Work dominates her discussions and thoughts. Weekends maybe down to 6 hours a day but could be 16... Any intimacy is largely an afterthought - great quality but not at a reasonable frequency. Sex and IT Analytics don't mix I guess 

As long as the money keeps coming to pay for my kids' college I don't mind. We do have a huge emotional disconnect for the last few years (prior to that we were ok actually) but she is totally oblivious to it.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

john117 said:


> My wife's idea of a typical day is work 9 am to 9 pm, maybe an hour break to toss something together for dinner and an hour for exercise. Then TV till 12 then sleep till 830 next day (works from home). All other responsibilities like children shopping house maintenance etc are mine. Work dominates her discussions and thoughts. Weekends maybe down to 6 hours a day but could be 16... Any intimacy is largely an afterthought - great quality but not at a reasonable frequency. Sex and IT Analytics don't mix I guess
> 
> As long as the money keeps coming to pay for my kids' college I don't mind. We do have a huge emotional disconnect for the last few years (prior to that we were ok actually) but she is totally oblivious to it.


I'd ask you to ask her the same thing then. Sometimes we are oblivious to things but once pointed out, we want to find a solution. It could also be that you only think she is oblivious to things and is silently suffering. Either way, wouldn't it be a good question to ask?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Ah, that's the key. Ignorance is bliss.

The oft-frigid Dr. Mrs. LD hails from a culture where emotional connectivity is a luxury (some theocracy or another in Central Asia). As such, details such as love are best experienced via illegal satellite dish or smuggled DVD. 

One would have thought that 3+ decades of living in the slightly more progressive  USA Midwest would have cured her of such provincialism but alas, that was not the case. 

I have brought the issue up on many occasions but she seems to believe emotional connections end at age 15 or so. So, it is a lost cause. Since there's serious college money at stake I focus more on things I like, delegating couple time to just before weeding the yard and painting the fence in the pecking order.

Once a month or so the hormones kick in and she gets in the mood for some admittedly high quality nookie. But, that's not how it works so for the last couple of hormonal rounds I explained my position calmly and used a very apt analogy... 

"Sex is like watering the grass. One watering deluge a month won't do you any good. You need regular watering, not necessarily every day like you would when you first plant the grass (or start the relationship) but often enough that it actually keeps the grass healthy. You also need other ways of caring for the grass. Let the grass go dry and no matter how much you water afterwards it may not recover"

I could swear I saw the lightbulb soooooort of flicker in her head. After another of our monthly trysts it finally occurred to me that nookie as practiced, while of great quality, was utterly meaningless in the grand scheme of things. 

Like running the sprinklers once, all day, after a month of Midwest drought.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

john117 said:


> Ah, that's the key. Ignorance is bliss.
> 
> The oft-frigid Dr. Mrs. LD hails from a culture where emotional connectivity is a luxury (some theocracy or another in Central Asia). As such, details such as love are best experienced via illegal satellite dish or smuggled DVD.
> 
> ...


May I ask, it sounds like she has always been like this and if so, why did you continue in a relationship with her? It sounds like she didn't change at all, rather your tolerance to her "romance" did.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

No, actually for the first 25 years in our marriage we were in good shape and sex was good all things considered. Then about 5-6 years ago a series of unfortunate events triggered some mental issues (BPD) and the rest is history. My current game plan is to continue milking the college tuition sacred cow for all it's worth and if sex suffers so be it.

I have posted most of the story in TAM...


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Just rub it in dude, lol


I have not, nor will I ever forget the final four years of my marriage. Sexless. Zero times.

It may seem like I am rubbing it in, and yeah, I admit, I have a bit of a smile on my face every time I read and post to this thread, but not because I'm bragging. It's because I was strong enough to end an untenable situation, and found what I was really looking for.

My STBW and I have been together for a while and the sex keeps getting better and better as the other aspects of our relationship continue to get better and better.

My point in all of this is to give an example and hope for those who are in the situation I was in. It can be fixed. It can be better. Some may be able to do it within their relationship. Others, like me, will have to finally say enough is enough and seek out a relationship that works for them.

P.s. Last night as we were going to bed, my STBW complained of an upset stomach. I was more than willing to take the night off considering how busy we had been the rest of the weekend. Well, she went and took a couple of Tums and ibuprofin, and proceeded to fvck me silly.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> You got me beat by a country mile. I'm lucky if I can get sex 5 times in a week. Normally just 3 or 4 times a week for us. Is 4 times in a day rare for you or is it somewhat common?
> 
> Congrats though for the healthy sex life!


Four times in a day happens every couple of months...when we have no kids around mainly. Twice a day is fairly common though.

She summed it up pretty well Sunday morning when she realized we didn't get the boxes burned the day before. In our town, there is a burning ban on Sundays...She said 'Well we didn't get the boxes burned yesterday because we were too busy having sex." She added with a grin, "Priorites you know." Then she proceed to kiss me, and then well, yeah


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Right, church is not the problem.


Don't be to so quick to dismiss it. Many fundamentalist denominations have a real problem with believers being married to a non-believer. Her behavior is consistent with someone who truly believes her faith. 

This major difference in religious may be preventing any efforts to fix things between the two of you.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Why might your wife not want sex with you?
> 
> Does she hold resentment for anything?
> 
> ...


I was reading in a "Jet" magazine, a guy says:

"We have to man up, no bodies coming to save us."

I thought it applied to TAM and similar situations.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

If I had not been hanging out with a friend from out of town, I would have upped my number to 6 and maybe 7. The wife informed me yesterday that she had two masturbation sessions. Holy randomness.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> If I had not been hanging out with a friend from out of town, I would have upped my number to 6 and maybe 7. The wife informed me yesterday that she had two masturbation sessions. Holy randomness.


How convenient you are retroactively informed that you missed out...


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> If I had not been hanging out with a friend from out of town, I would have upped my number to 6 and maybe 7. The wife informed me yesterday that she had two masturbation sessions. Holy randomness.


I agree with Sam. Think your wife is snowing you.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> How convenient you are retroactively informed that you missed out...


I want to say that it is encouraging because that conversation never happens. The topic of sex never comes up usually.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> I want to say that it is encouraging because that conversation never happens. The topic of sex never comes up usually.


And it came up at a time where you couldn't do anything about it, where it was something you were doing that caused you to miss out...convenient that it was not her fault...


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> And it came up at a time where you couldn't do anything about it, where it was something you were doing that caused you to miss out...convenient that it was not her fault...


Especially if she was less than thrilled that you were spending this time with the friend(s). To me it sounds like one of those passive/aggressive moves.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> If I had not been hanging out with a friend from out of town, I would have upped my number to 6 and maybe 7. The wife informed me yesterday that she had two masturbation sessions. Holy randomness.


This seems a little curious to me. You guys have had sex only 6 times this year ... and on a whim she suddenly gets the urge to masturbate twice in a day? Something doesn't seem right here. My wife never seems to have those urges and I feel quite confident that if she did, we would have had sex more than 5 times this year.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> And it came up at a time where you couldn't do anything about it, where it was something you were doing that caused you to miss out...convenient that it was not her fault...


Anyways, it was just so random. Besides our five minutes sessions, the topic of sex never comes up. It is possible that this is some sort of manipulation.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> Anyways, it was just so random. Besides our five minutes sessions, the topic of sex never comes up. It is possible that this is some sort of manipulation.


That's what I would be thinking. You could have said ... well, I'm here now, let's do something about it. My guess is that would be a no go.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> That's what I would be thinking. You could have said ... *well, I'm here now, let's do something about it*. My guess is that would be a no go.


Her: Well, I wanted it right then so badly I couldn't help myself and if you'd been here earlier it would have been sooooo good, but I'm all worn out now. Sorry.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Her: Well, I wanted it right then so badly I couldn't help myself and if you'd been here earlier it would have been sooooo good, but I'm all worn out now. Sorry.


that was her response, in so many words. I am not sure what to think of it.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> that was her response, in so many words. I am not sure what to think of it.


Sound like BS to me but tell her that next time she feels that urge, text you and you will be home straight away.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Sound like BS to me but tell her that next time she feels that urge, text you and you will be home straight away.


Well, it will be interesting to see if this is an isolated event or not.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Sound like BS to me but tell her that next time she feels that urge, text you and you will be home straight away.


And don't hold your breath waiting for that text...

I tried texting you, but you must have had your phone off or something because it wouldn't go through...

I tried texting you...why didn't you answer?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> And it came up at a time where you couldn't do anything about it, where it was something you were doing that caused you to miss out...convenient that it was not her fault...


Perfect opportunity for marital fireworks tho, when both are in the same room and the subject comes up.

The idea of conflict exists for a reason...


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> Well, it will be interesting to see if this is an isolated event or not.


Right ... that is why it seems curious to me. People who have a high enough drive to get the urge to masturbate twice in one day don't just suddenly have that urge out of the blue and then not have that urge again.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> I tried texting you, but you must have had your phone off or something because it wouldn't go through...


Darned iOS 7 update and the message bug 

Do I detect some fear of abandonment once Tyler is out for the count?


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

It has my mind buzzing for sure. Well, i will just have to see how it goes in the future. 

I have not informed her that I am considering moving on but she may be able to pick up on my vibe. I do not initiate, flirt, sext, nada and have not since December 2012.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> It has my mind buzzing for sure. Well, i will just have to see how it goes in the future.
> 
> I have not informed her that I am considering moving on but she may be able to pick up on my vibe. I do not initiate, flirt, sext, nada and have not since December 2012.


Maybe before "moving on", it is time to start doing those things again and see where it goes.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Maybe before "moving on", it is time to start doing those things again and see where it goes.


It is worth a try. I did all that stuff in years past and I may as well have been doing this to an inanimate object. I gave up and life went on just like it before. Seamless transition. Anyways, enough whining. For now, this is on my radar and hopefully it is a sign of good things to come.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

tyler1978 said:


> Anyways, it was just so random. Besides our five minutes sessions, the topic of sex never comes up. It is possible that this is some sort of manipulation.


Consider that she does not like the vibe she is getting from you. In view of that, you doing something without her is unsettling her world. That comment may have been an attempt to prevent further activities like that in the future.


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## mr hillbilly (Jul 16, 2012)

I can't figure out what I did....or didn't do but I've upped my count by 2 this week already.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

My STBW had a really bad day at work, and has been under a lot of stress with other things as well. She got home last night and was really short and snippy with everyone...kind of a bull in a China shop. After dinner we ran to the store and she apologized for being that way. I told her I understood and it wasn't that bad since she had largely ignored me. She got quiet for a minute then said 'I had been planning on having sex with you later tonight if that makes it any better.' We had already done it earlier in the day. When we finally got into the bedroom for the night, she lit candles, turned on some music and asked me to make her forget about everything but the two of us. Yeah, I have a good woman.


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## MrHappyHat (Oct 24, 2012)

treyvion said:


> I was reading in a "Jet" magazine, a guy says:
> 
> "We have to man up, no bodies coming to save us."
> 
> I thought it applied to TAM and similar situations.



I grew up in central Florida. My brother and I would wander off into the swamps to play.

We learned to deal with our own problems. We had a saying: help ain't coming.

I've since adopted another saying: Reality Wins.

You've got how things 'should be' and how things actually are. Once you stop acting according to how things should be and start acting on how they are, you'll start solving your problems.


----------



## MrHappyHat (Oct 24, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> I want to say that it is encouraging because that conversation never happens. The topic of sex never comes up usually.


That's not encouraging. She was attempting to isolate you.

"I had sexy-times when you were out with your friend" is a very VERY viscerally subtle way of saying "If you don't go out with your friends, maybe you'll be around when I want sex".


Bad, Bad, Bad.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I would rephrase that "I have a woman who is able to compartmentalize work and family into different cubbyholes" .

Most men can do it to some extent but most women generally toss everything in a big cauldron, simmer, and serve.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

MrHappyHat said:


> That's not encouraging. She was attempting to isolate you.
> 
> "I had sexy-times when you were out with your friend" is a very VERY viscerally subtle way of saying "If you don't go out with your friends, maybe you'll be around when I want sex".
> 
> ...


And of course, when he is around, she won't want sexy time...


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> And of course, when he is around, she won't want sexy time...


Now that my friend is gone, the well has dried up again. We had a rare, mellow, non-work filled night and she was out by 9 pm and never even the slightest hint of anything.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> Now that my friend is gone, the well has dried up again. We had a rare, mellow, non-work filled night and she was out by 9 pm and never even the slightest hint of anything.


Of course...


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> Now that my friend is gone, the well has dried up again. We had a rare, mellow, non-work filled night and she was out by 9 pm and never even the slightest hint of anything.


If she's preggo i would give her the benefit of the doubt. It's not like anything will change till at least six months to a year after delivery.

The sinister Machiavellian in me would say to use this period to try to build a non sexual emotional connection with her in a non "threatening" way - all while preparing for your exit plan if things don't pan our. Having a baby is no easy feat and working etc only makes things more complex. 

If you try your best to connect with her emotionally and there is no reciprocity then the chance of fixing anything post delivery is zero. Hence the exit planning.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

john117 said:


> If she's preggo i would give her the benefit of the doubt. It's not like anything will change till at least six months to a year after delivery.
> 
> The sinister Machiavellian in me would say to use this period to try to build a non sexual emotional connection with her in a non "threatening" way - all while preparing for your exit plan if things don't pan our. Having a baby is no easy feat and working etc only makes things more complex.
> 
> If you try your best to connect with her emotionally and there is no reciprocity then the chance of fixing anything post delivery is zero. Hence the exit planning.


As I have stated before, I am going to give it six months to a year after the pregnancy. I will give it a valiant shot but if she does not make an effort to meet my needs then I am moving on.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

john117 said:


> If she's preggo i would give her the benefit of the doubt. It's not like anything will change till at least six months to a year after delivery.


Why? What has she done that has earned her that benefit of the doubt?


----------



## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

I am not sure that walking out or issuing an ultimatum are the best things to do while she is pregnant. She has been pretty mellow but still who knows.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> I am not sure that walking out or issuing an ultimatum are the best things to do while she is pregnant. She has been pretty mellow but still who knows.


I'll be blunt about it ... walking out on her while she is pregnant is NOT the right thing to do. It will not send the message you intend to send ... and you will pretty much be eviscerating yourself when it comes to your reputation and relationship with friends/family. Leaving when you have children is one thing (as long as you aren't abandoning the children) but leaving a pregnant woman is a whole different story. She will never forgive you and even if you reconciled, it would forever change your relationship. You will hear about it for the rest of your life.

Just sayin'


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Why? What has she done that has earned her that benefit of the doubt?


Practical considerations in terms of divorce court. There isn't a family court judge this side of Afghanistan that would not make a martyr out of the poster for "walking out" on a pregnant wife, never mind the background. 

Life is a long term game and not just the playoffs. If he was patient enough until now he can wait another year. Besides I seem to recall he has school to think about.

Edit: who knows, if OP is super good with babies she may see him in a different way...


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I'll be blunt about it ... walking out on her while she is pregnant is NOT the right thing to do. It will not send the message you intend to send ... and you will pretty much be eviscerating yourself when it comes to your reputation and relationship with friends/family. Leaving when you have children is one thing (as long as you aren't abandoning the children) but leaving a pregnant woman is a whole different story. She will never forgive you and even if you reconciled, it would forever change your relationship. You will hear about it for the rest of your life.
> 
> Just sayin'


When I read advice like this I always wish that the poster would disclose the extent of their sexless marriage and how well their actions have worked in fixing it. Since you seem to have it all figured out and all, it would just be nice to know your track record.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I'll be blunt about it ... walking out on her while she is pregnant is NOT the right thing to do. It will not send the message you intend to send ... and you will pretty much be eviscerating yourself when it comes to your reputation and relationship with friends/family. Leaving when you have children is one thing (as long as you aren't abandoning the children) but leaving a pregnant woman is a whole different story. She will never forgive you and even if you reconciled, it would forever change your relationship. You will hear about it for the rest of your life.
> 
> Just sayin'


A few posters (on this thread and others) have advised to simply leave her and not wait til six months after the birth. While I respect what they say, I am not ready to drop this bombshell until after the child is born in April. 

The conversation used to come up all the time but lately I have pretty much given up. Once the child is born, I will say what I need to say and if things do not change then it is time to move on. As for the child, I am 100% committed to him.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> > I'll be blunt about it ... walking out on her while she is pregnant is NOT the right thing to do. It will not send the message you intend to send ... and you will pretty much be eviscerating yourself when it comes to your reputation and relationship with friends/family. Leaving when you have children is one thing (as long as you aren't abandoning the children) but leaving a pregnant woman is a whole different story. She will never forgive you and even if you reconciled, it would forever change your relationship. You will hear about it for the rest of your life.
> ...


hold on a second there working.

I am the first to admit I am a relationship idiot. I have been nearly celibate for 6 or 7 years now and I can't fix it. Nothing I've tried has worked and I've banged my head against a wall forever trying to figure it out. I have never pretended otherwise. My life sucks and I've missed out on what should have been the best years. You have guys on here who have had as much sex this year as I've had in my 21 years of marriage. I will sleep alone tonight. I have never indicated anything to the contrary.

That does not mean that I don't recognize a bad idea when I see it. This is a bad one. It isn't that leaving her is a bad idea ... it is leaving her while she's pregnant. That is what makes it a bad idea.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Sorry. I mean, you're right and I agree. The timing is bad right now. I shouldn't have made it personal.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Working,

Long story made short. We have been together since 2006. Sex life was fine (2-3 times a week) for the first 3 years. Starting in early 2010, her interest dried up. By 2012, we were down to once a month and sometimes less. At the moment, we stand at 6 times this year.

We have had the "talk" once in early 2012. Intermittent conversations before and after that. Each time, it is just that she is not in the mood. She is too tired, too stressed, too this, too that. I have been doing the majority of the housework since January 2013. I have made other changes and life carries on just like it did before.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I'm sorry to be indelicate but I hope to be here long enough to read about you gentlemen divorcing and going on to happier relationships! Its bull****, really.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> Working,
> 
> Long story made short. We have been together since 2006. Sex life was fine (2-3 times a week) for the first 3 years. Starting in early 2010, her interest dried up. By 2012, we were down to once a month and sometimes less. At the moment, we stand at 6 times this year.
> 
> We have had the "talk" once in early 2012. Intermittent conversations before and after that. Each time, it is just that she is not in the mood. She is too tired, too stressed, too this, too that. I have been doing the majority of the housework since January 2013. I have made other changes and life carries on just like it did before.


I've been following your story, and I think you already know that you've made a lot of mistakes, chief among them getting your wife pregnant while in a sexless marriage. I'm convinced that there is little chance in salvaging your marriage, and that little chance is ONLY if you prove your serious by leaving her. That said, I agree that making that move while she is pregnant will probably not work and will make you look like a douche. You've kind of backed yourself into a corner.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I've been following your story, and I think you already know that you've made a lot of mistakes, chief among them getting your wife pregnant while in a sexless marriage. I'm convinced that there is little chance in salvaging your marriage, and that little chance is ONLY if you prove your serious by leaving her. That said, I agree that making that move while she is pregnant will probably not work and will make you look like a douche. You've kind of backed yourself into a corner.


Figuratively speaking, the light bulb came on when we started the fertility treatments and it worked. Looking back on it now, big mistake. Well, the bed is made. We shall see how it goes next year after the birth.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Sorry. I mean, you're right and I agree. The timing is bad right now. I shouldn't have made it personal.


No worries. You hit a trigger. There are a$$hats all over town who aren't half the man, husband, provider or parent that I am who are going to be loved by their wives tonight. Every day I wonder why I am not deserving of that. I am here on TAM to find any piece of wisdom I can to figure it out from people who have that in their lives. 

I normally enjoy your posts and insight. I shouldn't have taken it personally but there is a lot of pain there ... and you sure hit the trigger, lol

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> No worries. You hit a trigger. *There are a$$hats all over town who aren't half the man, husband, provider or parent that I am who are going to be loved by their wives tonight. Every day I wonder why I am not deserving of that. I am here on TAM to find any piece of wisdom I can to figure it out from people who have that in their lives. *
> 
> I normally enjoy your posts and insight. I shouldn't have taken it personally but there is a lot of pain there ... and you sure hit the trigger, lol
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


I know this feeling all too well. My ex wife and I had many other issues that led to the sexlessness, the biggies being her lack of respect for me, and her sense of entitlement, both of which I helped cultivate over 20 years.

We divorced. I found a woman with no sense of entitlement, who has struggled by herself and has earned everything she has.

She also likes sex. My first big clue that she did was before we were dating and getting to know each other, it was clear she needed sex multiple times per week regardless of her physical or emotional state. Well, once ol'sammy got a hold of that, her drive and desire went off the charts


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

JustSomeGuy - you are worthy. Its this one woman who thinks you are not. One woman.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> JustSomeGuy - you are worthy. Its this one woman who thinks you are not. One woman.


I appreciate that. It may be the first time anybody has said that to me. Logically I know that but wow it is difficult to maintain that perspective. People who know me assume I don't need positive affirmation ... but I do. I've been with this one person who doesn't believe that since I was 22, more than half my life and with children it is difficult to extricate myself from it. It wears a person dowm.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Religion is not just a system of belief. It is an absorber of emotions. Provider of explanations. Justifier of fate. The refuge of procrastination.

Your wife has prayed for your soul while trampling on your living being. She has practiced Christianity without understanding the religion.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Was teased again, today. I woke up to her telling me that she woke up at 3 am and tried to awake me. She says that she rubbed my unit and was ready to get it on but I would not be awakened. this is getting weird.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

What I think is weird is that you don't just communicate with her about it, tyler. You must be very conflict avoidant.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> What I think is weird is that you don't just communicate with her about it, tyler. You must be very conflict avoidant.


After years of rejection, I gave up. During that time and since I have given up, the topic of sex never originated from her mouth. I always had to bring it up. What I find weird is that it is coming up now when it never did before. We have had conversations but I am simply making an observation.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You find her behavior last night weird...yet you will not actually discuss it with her or find out where she is coming from or have any real communication about it...but you report it here.

This - to me - just spells conflict avoidance, no matter which way you paint it and no matter how many times (and it doesn't sound like very many) you have discussed sex topics in the past.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> You find her behavior last night weird...yet you will not actually discuss it with her or find out where she is coming from or have any real communication about it...but you report it here.
> 
> This - to me - just spells conflict avoidance, no matter which way you paint it and no matter how many times (and it doesn't sound like very many) you have discussed sex topics in the past.


Just because I leave the rest of the story out does not mean it did not happen. I do not post every single detail so pardon me.

No, I do not discuss it every day. It used to come up quite often but I got tired of the indifferent attitude and being stonewalled. After awhile, her indifference has rubbed off onto me.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Ok but again...why not just ask her what was up?


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok but again...why not just ask her what was up?


Question for you: Where did I say that I did or did not ask her what was up? 

I was simply making an observation in the post. Yes, I did ask her why she would attempt it at 3 am. and she said that she was trying to get back to sleep. Sex/Masturbation helps her sleep. If we did not have this issue of lately, I would have said that we should make a point of it tonight. I know better. So then I replied, "Did you and the vibrator have good times?". She responded with "yes" and that was the end of it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

And then you could have said "what is up with you trying to wake me at 3 am, it doesn't work, so you MB, and now that means you will not try again for sex? Do you even really want to have sex with me, because it sure seems like you don't most of the time".

I get that you feel you have said it all before, but from what you reporting, even the exchange you just reported, it doesn't sound like you are making this very clear to her at all. It sounds like she thinks you don't care that much. It sounds like she is unaware that you are sexually starved and that what she did was unfair and odd.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

john117 said:


> Practical considerations in terms of divorce court. There isn't a family court judge this side of Afghanistan that would not make a martyr out of the poster for "walking out" on a pregnant wife, never mind the background.
> 
> Life is a long term game and not just the playoffs. If he was patient enough until now he can wait another year. Besides I seem to recall he has school to think about.
> 
> Edit: who knows, if OP is super good with babies she may see him in a different way...


I think you misunderstood my point. I am not advocating walking out. I am saying I think she was manipulating him. Her pregnancy does not give her the benefit of the doubt as far as her behavior.

Edit - I will note the thing about trying to get him up at 3 am is manipulation as well.

I think FW is correct that the OP needs to be clear that her treatment of him is not acceptable. When she pulls the manipulation, he needs to stop that immediately. I also think he needs to use his actions to reinforce his words. She can't behave poorly and expect him to treat her like a queen.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> And then you could have said "what is up with you trying to wake me at 3 am, it doesn't work, so you MB, and now that means you will not try again for sex? Do you even really want to have sex with me, because it sure seems like you don't most of the time".
> 
> I get that you feel you have said it all before, but from what you reporting, even the exchange you just reported, it doesn't sound like you are making this very clear to her at all. It sounds like she thinks you don't care that much. It sounds like she is unaware that you are sexually starved and that what she did was unfair and odd.


Here is the usual conversation that we would have in 2011 and 2012:

Myself: Why are you never in the mood to have sex?
Her: I don't know. I am just not.
Myself: Am I unattractive?
Her: No
Myself: Do I do something that repulses or turns you off?
Her: Not really.
Myself: So, my constant nonsexual touching and massaging, do you not like it?
Her: Oh, hun. You know that I love it. 
Myself: So, what could I do to help you be in the mood? 
Her: I don't know.
Myself: I respect that you are tired and stressed but you have energy to go rescue your friends and co-workers
Her: ......
Myself: This once-a-month five minute special sex life does not do it for me. I did not marry you to have this.
Her: Hun, I just do not know. I love you but I just do not feel it.

And so on and so on. I will not spell out every detail. Lately, I do not make even the slightest attempt. I wanted to see if anything would change. No change as of yet. 11 months down and now she is telling me about masturbating.

Prior to this year, she knew that it bothered me that we had sex so rarely and it was always unfulfilling for me. I think that maybe she thinks that I do not care anymore. That would not be all that far from the truth.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

The moral to my long-winded story is that I need to lay down an ultimatum or something similar to that. I have been faithful and am a great life partner. Eventually, I am not going to need something more than my right hand and occasional five minutes quickies that are about as passionate as a C-SPAN commercial.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Right, and you could begin now by making it more clear to her that you actually DO care...as it stands right now, it does sound like she thinks you don't care that much and that you will never leave her.

If she knew you will be leaving her, she might actually be more willing to work on the issue.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Right, and you could begin now by making it more clear to her that you actually DO care...as it stands right now, it does sound like she thinks you don't care that much and that you will never leave her.
> 
> If she knew you will be leaving her, she might actually be more willing to work on the issue.


I am not sure if dropping this bombshell while she is pregnant is all that wise but it has to come out eventually. I have not yet because I keep thinking that I can crack the code but it has not happened yet.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You're not going to crack the code.

The point of the communication is to give her the chance to do something before it is too late.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> You're not going to crack the code.
> 
> The point of the communication is to give her the chance to do something before it is too late.


I tried to avoid that conversation. Threatening to move on especially now that our son is on his way is a pretty big item. One that I need to make sure that I have thoroughly thought through.

Being on TAM has helped me sort out what was buzzing around in my head. That inevitable conversation will probably be more focused than it would have been before.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Right, and you could begin now by making it more clear to her that you actually DO care...as it stands right now, it does sound like she thinks you don't care that much and that you will never leave her.
> ...


You don't have to leave or explicitly threaten to leave to make the point. You can point out though what you need for the marriage to work. The dealbreakers. You can tell her you want to work on those things but at the end of the day, no matter what the reasons are, the marriage will not work without those things. I am assuming that sexual intimacy is one of those things. She can interpret what that means but it makes it very clear what you need and what your expectations for your marriage are. That is fair warning. She can then decide if she wants to work on those things.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

But it isn't a threat. You have said to us here that you WILL leave if there is no change. Yet she has no idea that this is the case and she MIGHT actually be willing to work harder at this if she DID know.

You said it yourself: "I tried to avoid that conversation."

That is conflict avoidance, not real communication.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> But it isn't a threat. You have said to us here that you WILL leave if there is no change. Yet she has no idea that this is the case and she MIGHT actually be willing to work harder at this if she DID know.
> 
> You said it yourself: "I tried to avoid that conversation."
> 
> That is conflict avoidance, not real communication.


Agreed, partly. I have communicated plenty of times that I am unhappy and need more intimacy. Those conversations have went nowhere. Just trying to think this through before dropping the bombshell. Well, we shall see how it goes.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> tyler1978 said:
> 
> 
> > Faithful Wife said:
> ...


I should add that I have done just that. It did not work ... or I should say it did not work for very long. At least now I know that I've made myself clear and she should not be surprised by the consequences. I am more comfortable enforcing those consequences knowing that I made myself clear and gave us the opportunity to fix it.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > But it isn't a threat. You have said to us here that you WILL leave if there is no change. Yet she has no idea that this is the case and she MIGHT actually be willing to work harder at this if she DID know.
> ...


That is not the same thing as communicating that the possibility of the bombshell exists. She may know very well that you are unhappy and yet not believe that you would ever do anything about it.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> That is not the same thing as communicating that the possibility of the bombshell exists. She may know very well that you are unhappy and yet not believe that you would ever do anything about it.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


True. Well, in the near future, I am going to lay it all out on the table. Being single would be not all that different from my current life.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I think you misunderstood my point. I am not advocating walking out. I am saying I think she was manipulating him. Her pregnancy does not give her the benefit of the doubt as far as her behavior.
> 
> Edit - I will note the thing about trying to get him up at 3 am is manipulation as well.
> 
> I think FW is correct that the OP needs to be clear that her treatment of him is not acceptable. When she pulls the manipulation, he needs to stop that immediately. I also think he needs to use his actions to reinforce his words. She can't behave poorly and expect him to treat her like a queen.


Of course she is manipulating him. No doubt. What I suggest is a bit of counter-manipulation if you will. Besides, pregnancy does change how women think of a lot of things. It may be worth a shot - a mid-court buzzer beater basically. 

I think pointing out that the status quo is unacceptable is not needed. She knows. Besides, OP will need to demonstrate that he was an attentive hubby and father if it ever came to legal blows, depending on local laws and courts. 

I do not advocate treating Mrs. OP like a queen but withdrawing for the next year is no answer either. Boundaries need to be established etc but pregnancy time is a poor time to play such games.

There's also the option to pout for a year and walk, but if OP and Mrs. OP are in the same social circles think of the potential for disaster in the making.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

not to give play by play but the Mrs. told me to come home at lunch today, wink-wink, nudge, nudge. I have some flexibility at my job so going home at lunch is not all that big of a deal. Well, she was serious and it happened. I am going to have a discussion tonight about the sudden uptick in interest even if twice before it was borderline-manipulation. That is 7 for the year now.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> not to give play by play but the Mrs. told me to come home at lunch today, wink-wink, nudge, nudge. I have some flexibility at my job so going home at lunch is not all that big of a deal. Well, she was serious and it happened. I am going to have a discussion tonight about the sudden uptick in interest even if twice before it was borderline-manipulation. That is 7 for the year now.


Wow, good on you 

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> There are a$$hats all over town who aren't half the man, husband, provider or parent that I am who are going to be loved by their wives tonight. Every day I wonder why I am not deserving of that. I am here on TAM to find any piece of wisdom I can to figure it out from people who have that in their lives.


This. SO MUCH THIS.

I don't want to fall into the "Nice Guy" trap of hidden/secret contracts, but for eff's sake...


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## ScubaSteve61 (Mar 20, 2012)

Well I'm up to 20 for the year as of last night. It was actually twice in the last 5 days, first time that's happened since our anniversary in May. Looking at averaging almost twice a month by the time new years rolls in.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> Well I'm up to 20 for the year as of last night. It was actually twice in the last 5 days, first time that's happened since our anniversary in May. Looking at averaging almost twice a month by the time new years rolls in.


Way to go!

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> No worries. You hit a trigger. There are a$$hats all over town who aren't half the man, husband, provider or parent that I am who are going to be loved by their wives tonight. Every day I wonder why I am not deserving of that. I am here on TAM to find any piece of wisdom I can to figure it out from people who have that in their lives.
> 
> I normally enjoy your posts and insight. I shouldn't have taken it personally but there is a lot of pain there ... and you sure hit the trigger, lol
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


My first thoughts upon reading the above:

Of course, you really are deserving of being love.

If you have truly come to believe you are not deserving of loving acts to make you feel seen and accepted and loved, and if you spend your energy looking for what's wrong with you and makes you so undeserving, then you aren't going to find an answer.

From reading your many posts, I have come to believe the problem isn't in or from you. It is in her. And you can't fix it. And you can't make her be honest enough with herself to own any part of it that she can, and only she can, change. She holds you hostage, yet has no interest in demanding or accepting ransom.

I'm sorry if any of that rings true


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

ScubaSteve61 said:


> Well I'm up to 20 for the year as of last night. It was actually twice in the last 5 days, first time that's happened since our anniversary in May. Looking at averaging almost twice a month by the time new years rolls in.


Make sure you are stretching both before and after such activity. I've heard tell that increasing intensity and frequency without adequate warm ups and warm downs can lead to strains and overuse injuries. No experience though


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> She has made her children her priority to the exclusion of everything else, including me.


Which has been very hard on her kids' dad, their parents' marriage, and given the kids an unhealthy model of what it means to be in a long term relationship with someone you supposedly love.

Sometimes I can feel sympathy for your wife, because she doesn't seem like she'd be the kind of person who would want to be keeping her heart and body and thoughts just out of reach from you; plus, it has always seemed to me that depression and obesity can result from biological challenges which vary in intensity, that I'd be an arrogant fool to think I would be strong enough to not succumb.

But, when I think what she has done to you, and the kids, in the name of whatever -- focusing in an unsustainable and neglectful way on the kids or her faith's obligations -- then it starts to seem very hypocritical and evasive-in-a-self-serving-sense. 

You have, and do, deserve much better, including a partner who wants to embrace reality, not avoid it.

(Just my uncensored unsolicited thoughts on something that is not my business.)

(Eta: removed unnecessary misplaced thought)


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Well, up to 8 for the year. I think that I may have cracked the code a bit. 

Saturday, I had a discussion with a female friend about this. She said that it was pretty much a duh! moment for me to not try it in the morning. Morning is the only time that she is ever in the mood. Sunday, I get up at 2 am and discover that she is wide awake and apparently has been for a while. I am a bit tired but I think, lets give it a shot and see how it goes. Long story made short, best sex that we have had in 3 years. I am not sure if this will work every time but I am going to try getting up way earlier than I usually do and see how it goes.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> Well, up to 8 for the year. I think that I may have cracked the code a bit.
> 
> Saturday, I had a discussion with a female friend about this. She said that it was pretty much a duh! moment for me to not try it in the morning. Morning is the only time that she is ever in the mood. Sunday, I get up at 2 am and discover that she is wide awake and apparently has been for a while. I am a bit tired but I think, lets give it a shot and see how it goes. Long story made short, best sex that we have had in 3 years. I am not sure if this will work every time but I am going to try getting up way earlier than I usually do and see how it goes.


Tell your wife that whenever she's wide awake at night and cannot sleep, just wake you up and you'll take care of her.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Tell your wife that whenever she's wide awake at night and cannot sleep, just wake you up and you'll take care of her.


Will do. The session on Sunday was so much more than the usual, unfulfilling, mechanical, go through the motions that we usually have. She was totally engaged and wanting it. If we were to have even one of those sessions per week, I would be satisfied.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox (Mar 31, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Tell your wife that whenever she's wide awake at night and cannot sleep, just wake you up and you'll take care of her.


I tried that. It still didn't work, still 0 for 2013. Or 2012. Or 2011. the last 2 1/2 months of 2010. 

Think Friday is D-day...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I'll be blunt about it ... walking out on her while she is pregnant is NOT the right thing to do. It will not send the message you intend to send ... and you will pretty much be eviscerating yourself when it comes to your reputation and relationship with friends/family. Leaving when you have children is one thing (as long as you aren't abandoning the children) but leaving a pregnant woman is a whole different story. She will never forgive you and even if you reconciled, it would forever change your relationship. You will hear about it for the rest of your life.
> 
> Just sayin'


You sound pretty sure of yourself, but I don't think you thought this all the way through. I have BTDT (actually told my preggo ex to leave after she made a scene while I had company). And, I waited until she asked to come back home. So I know better.

First, I never just gave her the boot. She always had a car, cash, and a credit card. My lawyers (when it came to that) didn't think it would be a factor, and it wasn't.

Two, nobody that knew both of us thought I was in the wrong. It certainly did not harm any relationships I cared about.

Three, doing that set a clear line in the sand. That whole yelling at me in front of company is something she never did like that again. And,she never did bring it up ever again. I'm sure she never forgot, but (in my case anyways) it was not so much resentment as a reminder that she had pushed too far and paid a price. She certainly tried harder and had more respect than before the incident.

So from that perspective, although it felt bad at the time, I think it was necessary and the marriage would have been even worse for me than if I would have not done that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

May not have been the wisest decision on Earth but in the midst of having "The Talk", I imposed an ultimatum of 20 months. If she does not start showing genuine and consistent interest/desire in being intimate with me then I am moving on.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

tyler1978 said:


> May not have been the wisest decision on Earth but in the midst of having "The Talk", I imposed an ultimatum of 20 months. If she does not start showing genuine and consistent interest/desire in being intimate with me then I am moving on.


No, it was not a wise thing to do. Having an honest discussion was good. Voicing your feelings was good. Telling her that you won't stick around forever was good. Giving her an actual date was not good.

Because if she is not being honest, either with you or herself, there is a high likelihood that you will see "change" around month 18 or 19. You will be convinced she gets it. But then once that threat dies down, there is a reasonable chance things will slowly go back to the way they were.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I did leave my intended date unspoken, err, mostly undefined. I recall saying I didn't know how long it would be -- six months, a year. But I will be working hard on myself, and what I can work on in our relationship, and if at some point I become convinced she is not putting in the effort or motivated, then I'd have to face that fact an eventually leave.

It was honestly how I felt.

The opportunity to re-iterate occurred a few times, and I tried to keep the message consistent.

I think she started to feel the need to create change and participate once she started to see me change (after several IC appointments, and attempts to do things differently in our relationship), and as I pointed out a time or two she didn't seem interested in the work or goal.

That's how I remember it. We are making much more progress than I ever felt we would.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Miss Scarlett likes that this is page 69.

:smthumbup:


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> Miss Scarlett likes that this is page 69.
> 
> :smthumbup:


Ha! JustSomeGuyWho thinks that is a good catch.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

A bit of a duh! statement but the ultimatum did not go over too well. Besides that, I am not sure if I am being completely honest. Her indifference has rubbed off onto me. I am starting to not care. We could both be happily indifferent and just go on with life.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

tyler1978 said:


> A bit of a duh! statement but the ultimatum did not go over too well. Besides that, I am not sure if I am being completely honest. Her indifference has rubbed off onto me. I am starting to not care. We could both be happily indifferent and just go on with life.


Why would that be acceptable?


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Why would that be acceptable?


It would not be. Moving on is going to be rough but it may be needed. She brings home about 80% of the income and so I would go back to being poor. I guess that I need to work on a solid exit strategy so that if things go sour, I am prepared.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Unless the income disparity is addressed by you getting a comparable job it would be pointless to bail. Also if she's helping with your college bills or living expenses (I believe you're in college now?) things get even murkier.

Ultimatums work only when there is a balance of power. Bid your time to address the income issue first then worry about sex.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

john117 said:


> Unless the income disparity is addressed by you getting a comparable job it would be pointless to bail. Also if she's helping with your college bills or living expenses (I believe you're in college now?) things get even murkier.


No, I am not. I am thankfully done with that pursuit. I pay for my student loans and the utilities and that cleans me out.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Normally I would say that a 20 month ultimatum is ridiculous. However, in your case I can see it making sense. But only if you use that 20 months to better your financial position. Get a job that will support you, improve your education, do whatever it takes to be self sustaining. Oh, and for the record, you should be (as I am) assuming that your income/job status plays a major role in why your wife isn't interested in you. Women aren't biologically set up to be interested in effing their dependents.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

tyler...Where/when did you have the talk with her? Or point me to the post I must have missed?

I'm glad you did it, though.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Normally I would say that a 20 month ultimatum is ridiculous. However, in your case I can see it making sense. But only if you use that 20 months to better your financial position. Get a job that will support you, improve your education, do whatever it takes to be self sustaining. Oh, and for the record, you should be (as I am) assuming that your income/job status plays a major role in why your wife isn't interested in you. Women aren't biologically set up to be interested in effing their dependents.


Well, only time will tell if this achieves the desired purpose. I am a bit stuck in the mid until spring when it comes to a new job. After that, I am going to put the full court press on.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> Miss Scarlett likes that this is page 69.
> 
> :smthumbup:


Ah, but is that "sex"?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I'll be honest and tell you to simply do not bother with 20 months or ultimatums. Just bail at your convenience. You're young and it is not worth it. 20 months also gives plenty of time to become attached to your child. This may not be to your advantage because of many reasons. She may be counting on the attachment to keep you around as it often happens. 

Things generally only get better if there is a reason and an ultimatum has to convey a sense of grave consequences. I don't see either happening here. I see a lot of control games. The best way is to plan your exit and walk.

Plan your financial and legal exit esp. If you're in a women friendly state and carry on. In terms of sex simply stop pursuing. If she has a clue she will get it.

The financial picture is critical as finding out you need to pay child support and loans is not going to be fun. But she'll feel the pain one way or another. 

Now, something worth considering here is to stay for 20 months but..... Let's review below scenario:

She has the baby and goes back to work after a few weeks of FMLA. Daycare being super expensive it could well be the child care duties will be on you. Have you discussed this? If you walk out you may ruin yourself but also her. Or if you stay your financials may be messed up even more (puppy eyes buying a home for example)..

Write down a lot of these scenarios and see how they play out financially for you and her. If she's planning on you playing child care provider she'll be toast even with custody. Also review possible custody arrangements and finances...


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> tyler...Where/when did you have the talk with her? Or point me to the post I must have missed?
> 
> I'm glad you did it, though.


I did not post about it outright.

It was on Tuesday night (two nights ago)

This weekend, we had a rather amazing session. The best in years. During Tuesday night, I asked her, "How can I replicate what we did on Sunday?".

Her response, "I do not know". 

I then proceeded to ask her the usual litany of questions; Am I unattractive, Do I not initiate right, Do I smell bad, etc. All in an effort to figure out why she has no interest in me besides mostly mechanical, go through the motions, sex. 

The response was the usual; I don't know why I am never in the mood.

Next, I asked her why she 99% of the time prefers to have it short and sweet. Her response, "I do not want to be worn out. It gets to be too much after a while". 

I proceeded to get annoyed and tell her that she needs to figure out why she has no sex drive or I am moving on one year after the child is born. It wears on you to have a partner that is largely indifferent about you most of the time. I told her that I feel disposable. No physical connection and really no emotional connection before 7 to 8 pm at night. I did not marry her to be celibate.

Her response was that I should have given her a chance and that this blindsided her. I will admit that there is some merit to that but still she has had 3 years.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

john117 said:


> I'll be honest and tell you to simply do not bother with 20 months or ultimatums. Just bail at your convenience. You're young and it is not worth it. 20 months also gives plenty of time to become attached to your child. This may not be to your advantage because of many reasons. She may be counting on the attachment to keep you around as it often happens.
> 
> Things generally only get better if there is a reason and an ultimatum has to convey a sense of grave consequences. I don't see either happening here. I see a lot of control games. The best way is to plan your exit and walk.
> 
> ...


We have discussed the possibility of my becoming the daycare provider. I am not entirely excited about this.

About custody and child support, I am doing some research. My fear is that she will make it difficult, if she can.

I will have a better picture of how I will fare financially come spring. Until then, all I can do is ponder possibilities and contingency plan.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

There's no merit whatsoever to her position. Emotional abandonment is abuse, period.

And if this is how she feels, defensive as opposed to "awh rats I should have known sex is important" I don't see things happening.

The daycare issue could be a deal breaker for both of you, or the issue that brings you together. Daycare for an infant / toddler is well over $1k a month and this could financially ruin her as a single parent, you as well. If she is willing to see your view I'm sure you could do the child care part, wait for your financial situation to improve, etc. 

Food for thought...


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

john117 said:


> There's no merit whatsoever to her position. Emotional abandonment is abuse, period.
> 
> And if this is how she feels, defensive as opposed to "awh rats I should have known sex is important" I don't see things happening.
> 
> ...


I am not usually a patient person so this is a test of my fortitude. I am pretty well stuck in the mud until Spring when it comes to finances. 

I am not so much focused on the quantity of sex as I am the quality. In short, with the child coming I am afraid that I will become even more less of a priority than before and that is unacceptable.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Patience is a virtue... As is collecting and analyzing information. Two skills that have made this European village kid a wild success 30 years later.

Learn to be patient and bid your time accordingly. Until baby shows up you have time. Afterwards it's a big game of chicken for both of you. If you feel frustrated now you will be in for a big surprise when 3 hours of sleep and sore body parts make anything a luxury. 

If you're patient you can use the time to put up a good show and see if at the end patience is it's own reward or not. You can also collect your thoughts and write them down, that helps.

I would stick to non sexual emotional closeness and see if THAT is attainable. In other words is it physical or emotional. If you see no reciprocation or progress then your ticket has been punched and you're good to go.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

john117 said:


> Patience is a virtue... As is collecting and analyzing information. Two skills that have made this European village kid a wild success 30 years later.
> 
> Learn to be patient and bid your time accordingly. Until baby shows up you have time. Afterwards it's a big game of chicken for both of you. If you feel frustrated now you will be in for a big surprise when 3 hours of sleep and sore body parts make anything a luxury.
> 
> ...


Well, we shall see how it goes. I will keep what you say in mind.

The longer this goes, the more jaded I have become. I spent my early 20's being resentful of women. I got over it but those thoughts are creeping back in.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tyler,
Months ago I posted some stuff that unintentionally hit a nerve with you. You told me not to make assumptions. 

Let me try a different approach this time. 

The economy has been bad for a while. Even more so for folks early and late in their careers. Sounds like it has been tough on you. 

While dating/engaged did your wife develop strong 'provider/financial' expectations? 

Have you two ever discussed whether she feels resentment about your results and/or her perception as to how intensely you are attempting to get your career back on track? 

I got the impression (perhaps incorrectly) from an earlier post of yours, that your financial setbacks and her loss of interest happened at about the same time. 

Many women are so averse to creating even a whiff of 'gold digger' scent that they avoid having a blunt conversation with their guy about 'ambition and success'.

The modern feminists dilemma is simple: They want women to earn 100 cents on the dollar compared to men AND they want THE man they married to earn more than they do. 

Just as a typical 'modern man' would like to have lots of sexual partners before marriage, but would prefer a wife who was more 'selective'. 

This is just human wiring, which is often contradictory. 








UOTE=tyler1978;5659905]Well, we shall see how it goes. I will keep what you say in mind.

The longer this goes, the more jaded I have become. I spent my early 20's being resentful of women. I got over it but those thoughts are creeping back in.[/QUOTE]


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

tyler, just a thought but maybe it would help you out more if you started your own thread. I think more people would see some of the issues you are having and may help - especially if they've been through exactly what you are going thru now. Just a guess on my part, but I'm thinking that your wife has lost attraction for you because you aren't perceived to be the primary bread winner of the family. I'm not overly enamored with MMSLP, but one thing I do agree with is that it's easier for a woman to lose attraction for a SAHD than it is for a man to lose attraction for a SAHM.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> tyler, just a thought but maybe it would help you out more if you started your own thread. I think more people would see some of the issues you are having and may help - especially if they've been through exactly what you are going thru now. Just a guess on my part, but I'm thinking that your wife has lost attraction for you because you aren't perceived to be the primary bread winner of the family. I'm not overly enamored with MMSLP, but one thing I do agree with is that it's easier for a woman to lose attraction for a SAHD than it is for a man to lose attraction for a SAHM.


I will take your advice and do so.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

The holiday season is upon us. Time for an update:

January - 1
February - 0
March - 0
April - 0
May - 2
June - 1
July - 1 (quickie at beginning of month)
August - 0
September - 0
October - 0
November - 0

Total: 5

Been an interesting month.

She has not had any luck finding a full-time job as a teacher. She is being told that March is when they really start trying to fill positions ... for the next school year. She has been substituting quite a bit but it is insignificant in terms of income. What does that mean? It means that the talk I was planning for March is likely going to get postponed ... possibly another 6 months. She HAS to have full-time employment for me to consider divorce.

Taken a financial beating this month with about $3K in unexpected expenses. That would be fine except I've already had about $15K in unexpected expenses this year. Has definitely set me back. If I do have to postpone my "conversation" then at least it is an opportunity to recover from that.

On the other hand, she is in the best mood she has been in a long time and we are getting along great. She is as active and positive as I've seen in years. She still avoids all serious conversation like the plague but she is as happy as can be. Lots of family time. None of that will translate to intimacy but at the very least there is zero tension between us. I've been in a pretty good mood too actually ... sure, I still get reminders that there is no intimacy in my life and that is hard and I find myself still prone to bouts of "whoa is me ... why don't I deserve that blah blah blah" ... but without tension in the house I'm pretty focused on other things at the moment. I like focusing on positive things and GSD ... Getting Sh!t Done

Not sure what to do with that.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

JSGW, I hope you have a good holiday season with the kids and your wife. It really sucks to be in the position you are. I wish I had some answers.

Trying to come up with a count for my wife and I for the year. Three for sure. There were also one she initiated in the wee hours of the morning (like 4:30 - 5:30 a.m. -- just love her self-imposed work schedule), but I don't fully count that as I was sleep-deprived and, uhm, spent already; she initiated another time when there was absolutely no way to proceed because of the location of the kids in the house at the time. To be honest, those two times she initiated felt a bit like a sham -- circumstances were just a bit too impossible to take it as a serious try on her part.

Balance that all against a couple of painful rejections, it doesn't leave me with energy to pursue a sex life with her like I did in years past. The pursuit, on my part, is mostly gone. 

Except, the last time, she was much different than I can even remember; her level of interest and attention to me I hadn't seen for almost fifteen years. Kind of confusing, but seemed sincere. Not sure if it is going to happen again. Hopeful that MC is starting to get some traction, and maybe that was part of it. Hard to say. Makes my brain tired, this cycle of hope gained, hope lost, hope gained, hope...

Anyways, may you have the most happy of Festivus celebrations if that's your thing, and good luck to you in the Feats of Strength should you be selected this year. "Festivus -- the holiday for the restofus!"


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Seinfeld, lol. 

It's funny that you mention Feats of Strength. I actually spent the last couple of days designing a 30-day challenge for me. Something I can focus on. Get rid of some bad habits, implement some good ones. Set some goals - workout, diet (general wellness), financial, work, etc. Kicks off when I wake up in the morning. Looking forward to it.

I don't know what I can do either. Like you ... my brain is tired. I can empathize with that. I really am at my best when I'm focused on positive things and GSD. So, I think my 30-day challenge will do me some good ... get my head out of this.

I'm thinking about staying off of TAM for at least the month. Not sure I can do it. While it is cathartic to have a place where I can actually talk about this, it isn't entirely a positive experience. It is really hard to read the stories of the great sex lives and relationships without comparing it with my own situation. Sometimes it is best not to be given constant reminders of what I'm missing or what other people have in their lives that I don't. Not that ignoring it will make the problem go away but it makes it a lot easier to focus on the positive ... something that has gotten away from me recently. Can't ignore it forever ... which is why my "challenge" is only 30 days ... but I could use a break.

The thought of divorce is bothering me right now just as much as the pain of having no intimacy in my life. My wife right now is a joy to be around. This is the person I fell in love with. I can't think of anyone I'd rather spend my time with than her when she is like this. It makes it hard to justify the pain that a divorce will cause to both of us and our children. At the same time, there is no ignoring the fact that there is still no intimacy in my life. I know that if I choose to ignore that then there will be no intimacy for the rest of my life. Her happiness does not fix that problem and it won't fix that problem. If I do divorce, it is difficult for me to imagine finding someone with as many positive qualities who is also more compatible with me sexually. I feel like I would have to settle just so I can have sex again and that just doesn't feel right to me. A conundrum, for sure.

Anyway, I hope that you and yours have a wonderful holiday and if I'm successful in staying off of TAM for the month, see ya on the other side


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

JSGW,

I cannot remember everything from your story, but are you overweight, alcoholic, porn addicted, a smoker? Can you chose a restaurant to eat at without discussing is with your wife for 20 minutes?

Do you watch football for several hours every weekend?

If you have gone to MC and raised the issue of your failed marriage, what difference has it made?

Why don't get all the divorce papers in order and give them to her to read? You don't even have to file. I am not certain that an ultimatum stated nakedly – intimacy or divorce – is good. If she loves you and doesn't want a divorce she should realize what you desire without talking about it.

Won't she try and initiate sex to solve the mystery of why her marriage might break up. One question now: will you desire her or feel resentful that she is willing? You might find that resentment causes you enormous anger. If she is suddenly willing, then WTF have you been doing all this time.

I wouldn't even talk about the physical need, as important as that is. If she wants to talk about what is wrong, can't you just say that although you love her as person, your emotional connection as man and woman has become too distant.

I don't see how avoiding TAM for a month improves you situation a bit. Aren't you just running away.

After divorce I asked my ex why she scotched out great sex life. She said it was to punish me. I deserved punishment for the mistakes I was making, but not having a sex life hardly helps people come closer. MC and IC would have helped us. But we tried to get help too little, too late.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

It's the infamous TAM roving deadline. There's always some good reason to put off fixing things.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> JSGW,
> 
> I cannot remember everything from your story, but are you overweight, alcoholic, porn addicted, a smoker? Can you chose a restaurant to eat at without discussing is with your wife for 20 minutes?
> 
> ...


Longwalk,

A little background:

Married for 21 years and have been together for 24.
We have two daughters 12 and 9.

We have been essentially celibate for 6 or 7 years but really the problem with intimacy in our marriage started from the very beginning.

I am very fit with hardly an ounce of body fat, rarely drink more than a glass of wine (with the exception of this last Turkey day, lol), not addicted to porn (it's not my thing) and I quit smoking years ago. I can easily make decisions and be firm in them.

She weighs 330lbs, twice her marital weight.

I disabled satellite years ago and am not setup to receive local channels ... in other words, no football, no nothing. That said, my wife herself setup netflix streaming within the last year. She watches tv and plays games on the internet ... far more than I do.

We have separated, gone to MC, reconciled, gone to MC (again) and have worked through many things. This has been ongoing for a long time.

When I separated a few years ago (a move that cost me about $35K), it was a last ditch effort to save our marriage. She was a complete disaster and in my mind, she was ruining our children's future. We reconciled but our core problem ... communication ... has never been fixed. Last May I gave myself a deadline. I wasn't going to let it continue on forever. My plan all along was to try as hard as I could to fix this thing, giving myself this March as the deadline to file and May for it to be finalized. So ... a full year. She is not aware of the deadlines she is aware that I have two dealbreakers ... that I will not be able to continue in the marriage without 1) communication, and 2) intimacy. I have explained that without those two things, I have no emotional connection with her.

The reason that we have had sex 5 times this year is because of the effort I've made.  This is a really good year for sex for me ... it probably doubled the total amount of times we've had sex since I turned 40, six years ago. It isn't enough. 

The truth is that at the core of this problem is our inability to communicate effectively. Years of MC and IC (for her) has not fixed that and frankly, it is not going to get fixed.

My reason for the March deadline was 1) to give myself a deadline, and 2) partly based on practical reasons. I have already spoken to an attorney. There are a number of very good reasons not to file before March, and especially not to let her know that it is happening until it happens. That is, if I want to position myself for the best possible outcome.


After all the effort I've made, I don't know what you guys think I'm running away from or putting off? I'm still living with the problem of not having sex. There is nothing I can do in the next month that will fix the problem anymore than what I've done over the last many years and especially this past year. If anything, the BEST thing I can do is focus on some things I need to get done to improve myself and not sit here and listen about how big and wonderful all the TAM wives husband's penis' are and how samyeagar gets laid 10 times a day (jk) and how some people's worst problem is whether or not to have anal. I don't need to hear it because I don't have that and nothing I'm going to do in the next month is going to change it.

... so what exactly am I putting off?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> It's the infamous TAM roving deadline. There's always some good reason to put off fixing things.


... again as I responded to Longwalk ... I'm not exactly sure what you think I'm putting off.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> ... again as I responded to Longwalk ... I'm not exactly sure what you think I'm putting off.


Just to be clear are you acting in March still? Or are you changing the deadline? Because I thought I just read you were going to change it since she won't have a job until next fall. I just keep seeing guys make excuses to push back their dates. Not just you. But I'm pretty sure something will make it not convenient in the fall too.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Just to be clear are you acting in March still? Or are you changing the deadline? Because I thought I just read you were going to change it since she won't have a job until next fall. I just keep seeing guys make excuses to push back their dates. Not just you. But I'm pretty sure something will make it not convenient in the fall too.


If she doesn't have a full time job by March then I will have to postpone filing. There is no going around the fact that I cannot afford to divorce unless she is working full-time. It has always been a prerequisite to filing. If she has a job then I will file. 

One of the reasons that we reconciled from our separation was that she was not able to find a full time job and I could no longer afford the separation. I couldn't afford to maintain both a house and an apartment any more. I had already consulted an attorney and decided I couldn't afford to file unless she was working.

She has not worked full-time for about 12 years. She decided she wanted to go back to school to get certified for teaching. The program cost us about $20K. My thinking at that time was that the worst case scenario would be that if the marriage didn't work out then when she got out of school, she would find a job and we could divorce. 

Unfortunately, she had a student teaching assignment in the spring that she failed and that meant that she would have to redo it this fall. That delayed getting her teaching certificate until this October. Most of the students in her program completed in May and already have jobs. That was a setback that I didn't expect. If that hadn't happened then I am pretty certain I would be free and clear to file in March as planned.


I hope you can see that this is not a convenient excuse. It has always been and will continue to be a prerequisite to divorce. When I gave myself a deadline to file in March it was under the assumption she would be working. There are no other reasons not to file and there won't be.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Let's put it this way ... I have to do what is right for me, for her and for our children. I feel that I have that obligation. I don't hate her and she isn't the enemy. I am also resigned to the fact that while we get along as friends, we are incompatible as a married couple and the situation is toxic to me. When we divorce it will be sad and terrible and I will likely be full of regret but that will be about what we once had and not about what we have now. I want to ensure that it is done with the best possible outcome under the circumstances for all of us. It is a process. I am not scared to divorce and I'm not looking for excuses to delay the inevitable.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Longwalk,
> 
> A little background:
> 
> ...


Your wife is not going to get a job teaching. Besides who wants a teacher who weighs 330lbs?

You need to file for divorce as soon as you can. As to much happiness on TAM, that depends what you read. If TAM helps you good, if not come back in March. Good luck.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

There is no doubt that some people will automatically discount her because of her weight. No doubt, she is morbidly obese. Everywhere we go, she is usually the largest person in the room. I have to laugh sometimes when I hear people say that they are no longer attracted to their spouse because they've gained 30, 40, 50 lbs ... I know that is their reality but I jokingly think ... send them my way because that wouldn't be a problem for me at all. 

Although some people have that bias, many don't. Her weight is an obstacle but it will not prevent her from getting a job. It certainly hasn't prevented her from landing substitute teaching assignments or extremely positive referrals. She carries herself well and her attitude and outgoing personality compensates for a lot. She is well liked and is already the first call made for two local schools when they need a substitute. If I had any reason to believe that she could not be successful in landing a full-time job then my approach would be different.

Part of my consideration is their standard of living. If I divorce without her having a full-time job then it will result in a significant drop in standard of living. While I can live with that, I don't want that for her or my girls. I know her and her first instinct will be to move back to Texas where she can live with her mother and get help from her sister who is extremely successful and has two kids of identical ages as my own. Legally I can prevent that but I agree that would be her best option. I would probably let that happen because that would be the best thing for my girls. It is not the best option for me. Not only will I have to start over financially and be unable to support my children for anything other than their most basic needs but I will also have to start over socially and in my job after living here for 14 years. I will have absolutely no support while ensuring they have all the support they need. It is something I can do but it is the least desirable of all possible outcomes. It also makes it more difficult to find a full-time job as a teacher because she will have to get certified to teach in Texas and she will have lost the contacts and inroads she has made here.

It isn't simple.

Interestingly, I don't think people would have the same bias if it was a 330lb man.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

There were probably 3 or 4 times this week that I had to restrain myself from sitting her down to discuss creating a plan for divorce. It is tempting but I have to remind myself what my goals are. I don't want to put the proverbial cart before the horse.

Sometimes I think ... 'will you just get a fvcking job already?', lol. That is the impatient side of me.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

A man who weighs 330 is loser.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> A man who weighs 330 is loser.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


Really? My brother weighs around that much and he is anything but a loser. Extremely high character, very successful in his career and an outstanding father, husband and member of his community. 

I think you generalize too much.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> There were probably 3 or 4 times this week that I had to restrain myself from sitting her down to discuss creating a plan for divorce. It is tempting but I have to remind myself what my goals are. I don't want to put the proverbial cart before the horse.
> 
> Sometimes I think ... 'will you just get a fvcking job already?', lol. That is the impatient side of me.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Is it possible she has at least a vague notion in her that once she gets a job, you will feel more freedom to divorce her?

If so, I wonder if that might hinder her pursuit of employment. Even if it is all less than conscious.


Btw, if it were any of my business, I would have to challenge you on your assertion that the girls moving to TX would be best for them. I would also have to point out that your standard of living is high enough (guessing from your locale and line of work), that some reduction in it might be tolerable if things like, say, happiness and a fulfilling life (yours, your daughters' fathers') then becomes possible. My gut reaction to your previous post is you are too eager to sacrifice yourself (in various hypothetical scenarios) as you imagine that is required for the "best" outcome for your daughters and even your wife. If so, I wonder why -- maybe it's a feeling of guilt, or that you are not entitled to a happy life too? 

Wishing you the best.


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## jaffacake (Dec 5, 2013)

This year so far, 0. Yes, a big zero.
Last year, I initiated 3 times, and Husband couldn't do it.
I have given up. 
So anyone who gets 1 this year, consider you are luckier than me!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> LongWalk said:
> 
> 
> > A man who weighs 330 is loser.
> ...


It may not be fair but society judges obesity harshly. Fat children are bullied. Police and airlines care about their employees' weight.

Your wife's obesity sabotages her opportunities to get a job. Similarly the fat is a way to avoid sex.

In many CWI threads weight loss and training are a signal that the WW is on the prowl for an AP.

Morally there may nothing wrong with fat. Psychologically, it is important.

If your wife is happy with status quo, what motivation does she have to lose weight or get a job?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> It may not be fair but society judges obesity harshly. Fat children are bullied. Police and airlines care about their employees' weight.
> 
> Your wife's obesity sabotages her opportunities to get a job. Similarly the fat is a way to avoid sex.
> 
> ...


The former long-time CEO of my company is a woman who is likely around the 300 lb mark. She was greatly admired and respected by most of the people in the company. The current VP of Sales for my company is a woman of similar size.

My wife is a teacher. She doesn't have to chase down criminals or navigate small spaces on a plane. 

Teaching jobs are not easy to come by. It isn't as if the schools create new classrooms during the school year and typically the reasons that longer term positions become available during the school year are pregnancy or family emergencies. I have no reason to believe she isn't making sufficient effort in looking for a full-time job. In the meantime, she is making the most of her substitute positions and is already booked for nearly the entire month of January.

I don't disagree that her weight is a problem and will influence how SOME people perceive her. If I was dating today, I would not find "curves" unattractive but I would not be attracted to a woman who is overweight to the degree that she is. If I was hiring, it would have little to no bearing on a hiring decision as long as the weight did not interfere with the requirements of the position. That is not true of everybody as I have known managers who had a clear prejudice against people who are obese. I remember one specific manager who was skeptical about my decision to hire a programmer who was very obese ... asking me, "how good could he be? Look at how fat he is." That programmer was one of the best I've ever had the opportunity to work with in my 24 years in this field.

She did not get this heavy as a way to avoid sex. The reasons that we do not have sex isn't because she hates it. It just isn't that important to her. There are many causes for the lack of intimacy in our marriage and they primarily start with an inability to communicate. The reasons behind our inability to communicate ... or more specifically her inability to communicate with me ... ARE in part the same reasons why she has allowed herself to get this heavy. I can't explain it; in hindsight, her inability to communicate with me started from the very beginning. I don't think it is anything I have done and believe from how she interacts with her family that she has been this way since childhood or likely because of her childhood. 

She has worked long and hard on herself to accept her weight. Now that she accepts it, she is not motivated to work on it. 

All that said, it is very possible that if we divorce and with the right person, she could have a reasonably active sex life. I would guess that she will go through a period where she is quickly having sex with multiple partners. No doubt, despite her weight, she will have the opportunity to date before I will. It will be difficult to digest and accept.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Still just 1...I refuse to initiate and there have been no good nights to try. 

Pretty amazing.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Still just 1...I refuse to initiate and there have been no good nights to try.
> 
> Pretty amazing.


Your story is pretty amazing. Sounds like your wife is disconnected from you emotionally, she checked out of the marriage. What are you going to do now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> No doubt, despite her weight, she will have the opportunity to date before I will. It will be difficult to digest and accept.


And here is your problem. You believe you can't do any better than your wife, so you are scared that she will leave. I bet you communicate this pretty clearly. Certainly does not provide a lot of incentive for her to change things.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

techmom said:


> Your story is pretty amazing. Sounds like your wife is disconnected from you emotionally, she checked out of the marriage. What are you going to do now?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Do upon others etc etc

An eye for an eye etc

Marital warfare etc

Spend her share of half a million dollars to educate two children who will ignore her for life after they graduate etc

Spend the rest of her life alone in a nursing home wishing she had more sex 30 years earlier etc...

Not a bad deal regardless of whether I'm alive or playing Angry Birds with Saint Peter....

(Ok St. Pete stop using the Mighty Eagle)


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> > No doubt, despite her weight, she will have the opportunity to date before I will. It will be difficult to digest and accept.
> ...


Agree. It is a good thing you wrote this. If you believe you can do better than your obese wife, she may be attracted to you.

Deciding to divorce will force you go forward. Your economic rationalization is primarily an excuse to not be decisive.

Tell your wife that you are not going to seek intimacy because your marriage is over. Formal divorce will come when one of you files. In the meantime you are going to date and she may, too, if she wishes. 

Dating may seem intimidating but you can start by inviting women to coffee.

Go to the gym lose weight, build muscle.

If your wife accepts her obesity, accepting frigidity is just another battle that she has won. Your wife is a winner, not a loser.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> If your wife accepts her obesity, accepting frigidity is just another battle that she has won. Your wife is a winner, not a loser.



Short term winner. Not long term... Unless you count an 80 year old alone on a nursing home cut off from her children and husband as a "winner".

It's not a nice plot to pull, but one has to be cognizant of how actions taken today will impact life 30 years later.

If I had to guess how the story ends for me, I'd say in a decade or dozen years when both girls are done with college I'll retire half time in the USA and half time in Europe. I have plenty of friends in both places. In the unicorns and rainbows scenario my wife tags along happily exploring Europe. In the reality scenario she returns to her theocratic country with her mostly estranged relatives, etc. where Medicare is a luxury, or stuck in Florida alone.

Now tell me again who wins at the end?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

techmom said:


> Your story is pretty amazing. Sounds like your wife is disconnected from you emotionally, she checked out of the marriage. What are you going to do now?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Play it by ear....

Frankly by not initiating myself I feel in control of my life/emotions. I guess I'm in a new phase of just seeing what happens...you can only bang your head against the wall so many times before you move on.

We had sexual relations on New Years... yet I just decided to sit back rest of the year and see what happens. I stopped drinking over four years ago so stopping initiating sex is similar for me ..you find you don't need it. I in a way is empowereing I think similar to the same reason Monks do what they do.

The bottom line is if SHE doesn't want sex neither do I although I still hold her accountable for a one sided decision that I fully attempted to resolve over a four year window. I am past the understanding point.

I don't think she checked out... I think she is in a minority group of females that have their priorities to their spouse mixed up. She has untreated ADHD and that also is a factor. She is a highly functioning ADHDer but she will have to realize on her own what to do.

I still believe eventually she will realize what is going on and eventually will either change her mind on sex or seek help on her own. I just settle into my sexless baseline which isn't horrible but definitely not at the level that would be mutually beneficial had we had a normal sex life...when she wants more she will need to let me know.

Really is a shame that couples get to this point, there should never be an impasse over things like sex...because there will always be a reaction that will be negative in return.

If things turn for the better I'll be back to let you all know.... Otherwise I'm fine

Until then Happy Holidays
T2


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> JustSomeGuyWho said:
> 
> 
> > No doubt, despite her weight, she will have the opportunity to date before I will. It will be difficult to digest and accept.
> ...


Actually that isn't it at all. I have zero fear my wife will leave. We might be in a better state if I did because that would mean she might want to work on our issues instead of pretending they don't exist. While I do have some insecurities about dating, my concerns are primarily around my financial position in the case of a divorce. It will take a while to get established again. I will be counting my every penny for a while.That might be ok if I was 22 but not when I'm 46. It's not that I can't eventually date but she will be in a position to do it much sooner.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Tall Average Guy said:
> 
> 
> > JustSomeGuyWho said:
> ...


I don't know ... the economic situation feels pretty real to me. Any way I slice it, it will not be pretty but seems rather irresponsible not to position us for the best outcome. I fear the economic reality at this point more than I fear divorce so the idea that I'm just rationalizing so that I don't have to be decisive doesn't feel accurate to me.

Btw, I have been bodybuilding for years. Physically my problem is that at times of extreme stress I lose weight instead of gain it. I have not been as disciplined during the last couple of years and especially in the last year. If anything I am now too thin and I don't get the comments I did even a couple of years ago but when I look at myself in the mirror I'm still cut and muscular. Getting back into the gym is a priority for me but I know how to train and it won't take me long to get it back.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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