# Moving On...



## MisterNiceGuy

I want to start a new thread. The old one is getting cumbersome and it represents a chapter in my life that I want to leave behind.

For those that don't have time to wade through 1200+ messages and 82 pages. Let me summarize...

Wife had 50th birthday in December. 
Shortly after that she tells me that she wants a divorce, I'm "smothering her". She has talked like this in the past, but this time I really take it seriously. Start soul searching and find the No More Mister Nice Guy book and then the NUTs book. Read them several times and start to implement some of the ideas in there. Wife and I go back and forth for about 6 weeks and I thought we were making some progress and then she tells me she had feelings for another guy and she needs to talk to him about her "feelings" to see if they are mutual! WTF? Start snooping right away and find that they are scheduling some dates and going to start doing some "fun" things together. With the help of this board, I blow up the affair and tell the OM wife and with her help we keep them apart. That was in the beginning of March 2011. Since then it's been a roller coaster, but mostly downhill. She has come to the conclusion that she wants a divorce, but still is living in the house downstairs in the guest room and we still work on our business together while she looks for a job. We take care of the kids together. There is no arguing, in fact I feel more connected to her now than I did before all this started. She is pleasant and engaging right now most days. There is no time line for her to move out, but if she follows her "plan" it will probably be this summer. I still can't believe that she would leave the house and kids without trying to work on the marriage. I am pretty checked out myself right now. I want her to work on the marriage but I can't force her to. I don't think she is completely checked out yet, otherwise I think she'd have left already... So for now, I'm working on me and doing my own thing!

You can read the entire thread here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21806-ea-already-moving-towards-pa.html


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## MisterNiceGuy

How long does it typically take a spouse to recover from an affair. I mean really get over the immediate feelings? It's been 5 weeks since she last saw him and I have a sneaking suspicion that she is still mourning that relationship. I know, I know I have to get on with my stuff and I am. I'm just curious how long those feelings start to subside and she can move on with her life in whatever direction she wants to go... It's going to drive me nuts and screw up the kids until she makes a decision about what she wants from all of this.


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## Deejo

Was there a point in time in your relationship where you presumed that you knew exactly what your wife wanted and needed, and that you thought you were providing those very things by virtue of your behavior?

I'm honestly curious in wondering how 'certain' men feel that they are in tune with what their partner actually wants ... which when it comes down to it, may be contradictory.


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## MisterNiceGuy

Deejo said:


> Was there a point in time in your relationship where you presumed that you knew exactly what your wife wanted and needed, and that you thought you were providing those very things by virtue of your behavior?
> 
> I'm honestly curious in wondering how 'certain' men feel that they are in tune with what their partner actually wants ... which when it comes down to it, may be contradictory.


No... I don't think I ever knew what she wanted, unfortunately. I'm pretty sure I know now what she wants. She has told me many times since her affair what she wants out of a relationship. I've been hesitant to even go and try to be the husband she wants to have because I've been trying to move on with my life... you know the 180 stuff.


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## Dedicated2Her

MisterNiceGuy said:


> No... I don't think I ever knew what she wanted, unfortunately. I'm pretty sure I know now what she wants. She has told me many times since her affair what she wants out of a relationship. I've been hesitant to even go and try to be the husband she wants to have because I've been trying to move on with my life... you know the 180 stuff.


I've heard it takes 18 months to 2 years to completely wipe the other person out of your mind after an affair. But, who really knows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MisterNiceGuy

Dedicated2Her said:


> I've heard it takes 18 months to 2 years to completely wipe the other person out of your mind after an affair. But, who really knows.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's been 5 weeks since last contact. I'm pretty sure she still has strong feelings for him. I'm just wondering if that's what's keeping her from making a decision about leaving or staying. If that's the case, she still isn't thinking clearly and in the FOG.

The other thing, my wife mentioned that she tried to reach out to the OM's wife because they were good friends (fvcked up isn't it!) because they run in he same social circles and the OMW told my wife to buzz off...

My wife told me it was just an idle fantasy that was nothing and the MC told me it was nothing, but I'm not sure that this thing isn't still weighing heavily on her mind!


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## IanIronwood

MisterNiceGuy said:


> It's been 5 weeks since last contact. I'm pretty sure she still has strong feelings for him. I'm just wondering if that's what's keeping her from making a decision about leaving or staying. If that's the case, she still isn't thinking clearly and in the FOG.
> 
> The other thing, my wife mentioned that she tried to reach out to the OM's wife because they were good friends (fvcked up isn't it!) because they run in he same social circles and the OMW told my wife to buzz off...
> 
> My wife told me it was just an idle fantasy that was nothing and the MC told me it was nothing, but I'm not sure that this thing isn't still weighing heavily on her mind!


I wouldn't let the affair aspect bother you now -- the OMW seems to have taken that off the table. What your wife is taking advantage of you while she figures out her next move.

Have you drawn up and signed the separation papers? That seems like your next best move, even if she hasn't left the building yet. You need to keep up the firm but steady pressure on her to leave. And in the absence of that, make her more responsible for household chores while she's there. 

And as far as sex goes . . . I think eagleclaw had it right. What do you have to lose? Have a couple of drinks to lower your inhibitions and make a forceful (not aggressive, but forceful) play. If she rebuffs you, fine -- you put it on the table and she yanked it back off, and after that you can stomp off to a singles bar or strip club or whatever. But the worst that's going to happen is that she'll be disgusted by your grabby hands/lecherous attitude and accelerate the moving process. Best thing that could happen . . . well, I'll leave that to your imagination.

She'll probably reject you. That's not a bad thing, because in your 180 you can laugh off her rejection and see it as tacit permission to get on with your life without any further objection from her. But get that separation nailed down the next day.


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## MEM2020

MNG,
It does not sound like you are moving on. It sounds like you are waiting for her to decide for YOU, how the rest of your life is going to turn out. Basically this conveys to her that you are ok with being her "Plan B".

Meaning you are going to wait and hope and hope and think about how she just MIGHT change her mind before she moves out. Your W is pretty alpha. Her seeing you in "watching what happens mode" is reducing her respect for you. 

Have you made up a "kid watching" schedule? Basically that defines the times you are obligated to be at home/children's events. Other than "those times" you should be in "free man" mode. Where you go, who you are with and what you do are no longer her business". 

You might get a different reaction than you expect if you explain those ground rules and let her know that what each of you do, and who you do it with is no longer each others business. That conversation makes it clear you are no longer willing to be "Plan B". 

Until you take yourself out of "Plan B" mode, you have zero chance of recon. Even if you do, you may not recon. 



MisterNiceGuy said:


> I want to start a new thread. The old one is getting cumbersome and it represents a chapter in my life that I want to leave behind.
> 
> For those that don't have time to wade through 1200+ messages and 82 pages. Let me summarize...
> 
> Wife had 50th birthday in December.
> Shortly after that she tells me that she wants a divorce, I'm "smothering her". She has talked like this in the past, but this time I really take it seriously. Start soul searching and find the No More Mister Nice Guy book and then the NUTs book. Read them several times and start to implement some of the ideas in there. Wife and I go back and forth for about 6 weeks and I thought we were making some progress and then she tells me she had feelings for another guy and she needs to talk to him about her "feelings" to see if they are mutual! WTF? Start snooping right away and find that they are scheduling some dates and going to start doing some "fun" things together. With the help of this board, I blow up the affair and tell the OM wife and with her help we keep them apart. That was in the beginning of March 2011. Since then it's been a roller coaster, but mostly downhill. She has come to the conclusion that she wants a divorce, but still is living in the house downstairs in the guest room and we still work on our business together while she looks for a job. We take care of the kids together. There is no arguing, in fact I feel more connected to her now than I did before all this started. She is pleasant and engaging right now most days. There is no time line for her to move out, but if she follows her "plan" it will probably be this summer. I still can't believe that she would leave the house and kids without trying to work on the marriage. I am pretty checked out myself right now. I want her to work on the marriage but I can't force her to. I don't think she is completely checked out yet, otherwise I think she'd have left already... So for now, I'm working on me and doing my own thing!
> 
> You can read the entire thread here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21806-ea-already-moving-towards-pa.html


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## alphaomega

MNG,

Plan B sucks. I've been inadvertently a Plan B since this started.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MisterNiceGuy

MEM11363 said:


> MNG,
> It does not sound like you are moving on. It sounds like you are waiting for her to decide for YOU, how the rest of your life is going to turn out. Basically this conveys to her that you are ok with being her "Plan B".
> 
> Meaning you are going to wait and hope and hope and think about how she just MIGHT change her mind before she moves out. Your W is pretty alpha. Her seeing you in "watching what happens mode" is reducing her respect for you.
> 
> Have you made up a "kid watching" schedule? Basically that defines the times you are obligated to be at home/children's events. Other than "those times" you should be in "free man" mode. Where you go, who you are with and what you do are no longer her business".
> 
> You might get a different reaction than you expect if you explain those ground rules and let her know that what each of you do, and who you do it with is no longer each others business. That conversation makes it clear you are no longer willing to be "Plan B".
> 
> Until you take yourself out of "Plan B" mode, you have zero chance of recon. Even if you do, you may not recon.


MEM, thanks for putting things in perspective! This is a great idea about the kid schedule. I need to implement that soon so I can start going out instead of hanging around here with my moody STBX wife...


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## luckyman

Hi MNG,
My ex and I lived together trying to reconcile. We went to counseling once per week and "dated" each other. I lived in the guest room and she stayed in the master bedroom. She didn't want to reconcile at first, then changed her mind, back-and-forth for a year. Finally I moved out. I couldn't stand the constant rejection and I wasn't about to waste my precious life working harder than she was at trying to keep the marriage alive. F*** it. 

It was the best decision of my life, MNG. I discovered who I really am, how I TRULY felt about myself and women in general, and after some dating and time alone, I eventually married again to a woman who cherishes me for who I am and accepts all of me. My best friend and lover. 

When I was living with my ex, I kept trying to avoid emotional pain. I continued to find a shortcut through all the conflict. I couldn't. I had to end it, and it mattered that I ended it, rather than her. I was the one who filed for divorce (which later pi$$ed her off). I was the one who took action. Enough reconciliation. I needed to save the only life that I had to live. I simply couldn't live in Plan B because Plan B wasn't MY plan! 

I really feel for you, MNG. Start getting to know yourself. Get out and get away from her. There are so many wonderful women out there who are your age and who would fall over themselves to have a caring, thoughtful, intuitive and introspective man such as you!


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## Conrad

MNG,

For what it's worth, how you are behaving with MrsNotSoNiceGuy likely goes back to your relationship with your mother. I've read something about that relationship in one of your posts.

Get the IFS certified counseling that will really help you.

I won't mention it again.

But, I think it's a must have.


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## MEM2020

MNG,
PREPARE yourself for that conversation. Be calm. Be ready for one of 3 reactions - actually she may try all 3 in sequence if she realizes her approach is "failing":
1. Anger/intimidation: 
Her: FINE if that is what you want to do then I am going to do X, Y, Z to YOU.
You: Shrugging not saying a word

2. Guilt because now YOU are the bad guy: 
Wife: Maybe crying (this is real sadness at the loss of having you as her plan B while she aggressively figures out plan A) so she is crying at the loss of security - NOT at the loss of YOU. She may say "I can't believe you are going to do that to me".
You: I am confused. I am not doing anything "to YOU", I am simply moving on with my life, and other than coordinating child care now, and child visitation later, you are no longer part of my life". 
Wife: More guilt, tears etc.
You: Leave the room. I know that is cold, but she needs to SEE you acting in YOUR interests. And getting a guilt bath is not in your best interests at this point. And comforting her will just make you vulnerable to her AGAIN. Don't do it.

3. Raw manipulation and blameshifting: 
Wife: Great - so you are just giving up. Fine if YOU want to end the marriage go right ahead. Just so we are clear YOU are ending the marriage. 
You: Total silence. 

This type thing is abusive blameshifting and a nasty attempt to get you to keep trying and remain her faithful plan B until she replaces you. Given that, it deserves no response. Do NOT try to convince her that she is wrong. She knows she is. Just be silent and then leave the room head high. 
Keep a poker face. Don't give her the "you are crazy" look or she will get even more angry/aggressive. And leave. 

She may REALLY double down at this point and say she is "rethinking the divorce". 

In woman speak that translates to: Pleeeeaaassseee be my plan B, pleeeassseee. 

Just shrug. DO NOT REACT to her saying she is rethinking or having second thoughts or EVEN her saying she has changed her mind. Expect her to say that. She will use false hope to keep you in plan B mode until she finds plan A and kicks you out the door without a backward glance. 

When she says she is rethinking - shrug - be silent and leave. 

Do not respond to any words/looks/touches about her wanting to keep you. Ignore them. I don't care if this goes on for days. Be self contained and give her a puzzled look when she does that. 

The ONLY sign that she is truly thinking of reconciliation will be if she directly takes you to bed. That is it. Because anything else is a request for you to stay in the friendzone/funding her life zone until she finds a man she desires. 

IF she takes you to bed - YOU need to be aggressive in bed. But don't be all lovey dovey afterwards. Don't be cold - just reserved. If she says "that was a mistake" after having sex - just ignore it like you didn't even hear it. If she says - "that was great" - just mirror it back. And then do NOT be cold but do not go back to full blown nice guy. Stay a little reserved and see if it was a one off manipulation or the restart of hope for your marriage. 

You can be playful afterwards "Keep that up for a couple weeks and I might actually start to wonder what is happening" said with a smile. This is your way of saying that sex once every 6 months won't keep you in plan B mode. 

4. Indifference: 
Wife: Do whatever you want, I don't really care. 
You: I am relieved I hoped you would say "do what you want, I don't care". 
And then leave the room. 
You want to parrot her comment back to her. Because she WILL deny it the first night you sleep with someone else. She will claim she never said it. Parroting it back makes it harder for her to conveniently forget the conversation. 

If she asks you "are you ok with me doing the same"? Just say "ABSOLUTELY, in fact I WANT you to". 

And then end the conversation. 

Give it a day and then send her a short email recapping the conversation and defining some ground rules. Neither of you brings anyone to the house. Both of you remain civil in front of the kids. Neither of you says anything negative about the other to the kids. 



MisterNiceGuy said:


> MEM, thanks for putting things in perspective! This is a great idea about the kid schedule. I need to implement that soon so I can start going out instead of hanging around here with my moody STBX wife...


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## MisterNiceGuy

Conrad said:


> MNG,
> 
> For what it's worth, how you are behaving with MrsNotSoNiceGuy likely goes back to your relationship with your mother. I've read something about that relationship in one of your posts.
> 
> Get the IFS certified counseling that will really help you.
> 
> I won't mention it again.
> 
> But, I think it's a must have.


I talked to the MC yesterday about that. There are many similarities in my marriage and my parents, but also so things not similar. Alpha mother, beta father. My mother just got fed up and left after about 20 years of marriage. Never looked back... My father was/still is clueless about the whole thing. I was walking down the same path, but I'm actually trying to do something about it, where my father just rolled over and did nothing.

I looked up IFS counseling near me and the closest one is about 40 miles... that would be very tough to try and pull off...


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## MisterNiceGuy

Had a good session with the MC yesterday (we are still seeing him separately for now). I knew it! She is still very emotionally attached to the OM and is struggling to close those feelings down. He said she was stuffing those feelings down for the past couple of weeks, but they talked about that for a while the other day at her session. He said that was her number 1 goal is to detach emotionally from the OM. He said the hard part would be for her to re-attach emotionally to me. Many times when women have affairs they can never reattach to their husbands and just end up leaving. 

I wanted to say that "I told you so" to the MC. He poo pooed my suggestion last week that she still has strong feelings for the OM. Same with my wife, "Oh that was nothing"... both of them said that just last week... 

So, what I've got now is a moody wife that could care less about me while she struggles to stop thinking about some other guy... fun! 

One thing I wanted to add was that I brought up how desperate my mother was when she left my father and teenage kids and never looked back. I told the MC about this and he said that my wife is not anywhere near as desperate as my mother was. She still has some unresolved feelings for me and the marriage, otherwise she'd just leave. But I hear MEM about pushing the separation thing to force a decision... gotta be done soon...

I'm just doing my thing for the most part. Not much has changed around here lately. I'm going to push MEM's suggestions in a couple of days. I have a very busy weekend and I don't have time to sit down and do the separation thing until Monday at the earliest...


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## Affaircare

MNG~

May I tell you a story that forever changed my life and way of thinking? Bear in mind I'm telling you this story as a female person and a former disloyal person. 

My Dear Hubby is a man whom I might call at first glance more Beta. He is an introvert, gentle, thoughtful, etc. But what I've come to realize is that it is not the "amount of noise" that a man makes that makes him "Alpha" but rather, when the rubber meets the road, will he stand or will he turn over? My Dear Hubby is quiet, but he is himself, mature, personally responsible, and Alpha in his vulnerability to ME (and no one else). 

So how does this relate to you? Here's the story: 

One day Dear Hubby and I were having a fairly serious disagreement about something that had been ongoing in our marriage and which I found intolerable. I was trying to say to him that my boundary was being rubbed raw and that I viewed it as serious enough that I was considering moving out. [It is important to know that I would NOT divorce my Dear Hubby but if there were no other option, I would live apart for a while until that "situation" was resolved and then live together again.] What I said was something like, "I can not live with *This* and if it doesn't change I'm moving out." 

His response was PERFECT and very quietly Alpha: 

*"I will not be persuaded by threats. If you're going to move out, do it. Pack and go now. If you're not, stop trying to manipulate me with threats. Either you mean it or you don't, but know this: if you do move out, you will not be moving back."*

Now at first I was  at this. But right then and there I realized he was absolutely right. If I was going to move, I should move and never look back. If I wasn't going to move, I was just making threats and trying to manipulate things with the threat. Okay, let's say it like it was: I was trying to "get my way" by saying something that I thought would scare him into doing what I wanted...and that is WHOLELY not cool!! 

MNG, I tell you this story because he stopped me in my tracks by calling me on my own game. I personally believe this is exactly what you need to do with your wife. She keeps dangling this carrot in front of your face that "maybe" she'll stay and "maybe" she'll work it out with you and...blahblahblah. BALONEY! She is trying to get her way by pushing the button she thinks will scare you into doing what she wants: namely being her fall-back plan. 

I believe she would be stunned to learn that not only would you not "roll over and die" without her, that at this point you're not sure you want someone who treats you like she does! She'll try to push your buttons with "I don't have feelings for you" or "I'm thinking about moving out" thinking that you'll say _"No honey! NO! I love you and I want you to stay" _(see how she gets her "fix" there?). Well what if you STUNNED her? "You know I don't know if I have feelings for you anymore either. I am smart, good looking, and earn a good living and I believe I'm worthy of a life-partner who appreciates the man I am. I'm not sure I love you lately either."  Or how about *"You know if you don't love me, get it over with. Move out. I'm ready to be appreciated by a woman who will CONTRIBUTE to my life. So if you mean it pack and move--today. But know this: if you move out you will not be moving back. If you mean it, move now. If not, stop threatening me." *


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## disbelief

I'm glad I stumbled on this thread. It fits in just rt at this point. Affaircare, well put. I have straight up told my W shd is losing me......... Hang tough MNG.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

Quoted for truth!

If you say these words to her, you will never have to hear that crap again.



Affaircare said:


> MNG~
> 
> May I tell you a story that forever changed my life and way of thinking? Bear in mind I'm telling you this story as a female person and a former disloyal person.
> 
> My Dear Hubby is a man whom I might call at first glance more Beta. He is an introvert, gentle, thoughtful, etc. But what I've come to realize is that it is not the "amount of noise" that a man makes that makes him "Alpha" but rather, when the rubber meets the road, will he stand or will he turn over? My Dear Hubby is quiet, but he is himself, mature, personally responsible, and Alpha in his vulnerability to ME (and no one else).
> 
> So how does this relate to you? Here's the story:
> 
> One day Dear Hubby and I were having a fairly serious disagreement about something that had been ongoing in our marriage and which I found intolerable. I was trying to say to him that my boundary was being rubbed raw and that I viewed it as serious enough that I was considering moving out. [It is important to know that I would NOT divorce my Dear Hubby but if there were no other option, I would live apart for a while until that "situation" was resolved and then live together again.] What I said was something like, "I can not live with *This* and if it doesn't change I'm moving out."
> 
> His response was PERFECT and very quietly Alpha:
> 
> *"I will not be persuaded by threats. If you're going to move out, do it. Pack and go now. If you're not, stop trying to manipulate me with threats. Either you mean it or you don't, but know this: if you do move out, you will not be moving back."*
> 
> Now at first I was  at this. But right then and there I realized he was absolutely right. If I was going to move, I should move and never look back. If I wasn't going to move, I was just making threats and trying to manipulate things with the threat. Okay, let's say it like it was: I was trying to "get my way" by saying something that I thought would scare him into doing what I wanted...and that is WHOLELY not cool!!
> 
> MNG, I tell you this story because he stopped me in my tracks by calling me on my own game. I personally believe this is exactly what you need to do with your wife. She keeps dangling this carrot in front of your face that "maybe" she'll stay and "maybe" she'll work it out with you and...blahblahblah. BALONEY! She is trying to get her way by pushing the button she thinks will scare you into doing what she wants: namely being her fall-back plan.
> 
> I believe she would be stunned to learn that not only would you not "roll over and die" without her, that at this point you're not sure you want someone who treats you like she does! She'll try to push your buttons with "I don't have feelings for you" or "I'm thinking about moving out" thinking that you'll say _"No honey! NO! I love you and I want you to stay" _(see how she gets her "fix" there?). Well what if you STUNNED her? "You know I don't know if I have feelings for you anymore either. I am smart, good looking, and earn a good living and I believe I'm worthy of a life-partner who appreciates the man I am. I'm not sure I love you lately either."  Or how about *"You know if you don't love me, get it over with. Move out. I'm ready to be appreciated by a woman who will CONTRIBUTE to my life. So if you mean it pack and move--today. But know this: if you move out you will not be moving back. If you mean it, move now. If not, stop threatening me." *


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## disbelief

In addition to that would it also be very effective then to say. The above and roll into. : 
"fine you are staying so let's get to work on fixing this and stop this Limbo BS"

Or
Ok so you are leaving I will have seperation/divorce papers ready ASAP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Atholk

The entire frame here is that the wife gets to decide what happens in the relationship. So whatever the outcome will be, will be to her advantage and not yours.

You have to start making moves that she has to respond to, rather than you responding to her.


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## AFEH

I know I was in a very different situation to most here when I’d made my mind up my wife was in an EA and she was forever denying it. Essentially my situation was a) no dependent children and b) financially, apart from splitting everything in half, no financial dependency.

What did I do? I bought my wife a plane ticket and told her that I don’t take that stuff and I no longer want her in my life. I was not going to stand there, providing all that I provided for her and let that stuff go on right under my nose. I would have been a fool to let that happen, to let it go on. Foolishly and for the wrong reasons I got her back with me after two months. I paid for that later, big time.

But it’s all so very different when there are kiddies, toddlers, dependent children and financial dependency. When those two “dependencies” (children and finances) are in the “mix” it’s not so easy to know what to do for the best. I’ve been there and in that, only time gives us the answer as to whether we did the right thing or not.

Bob


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## MisterNiceGuy

Unfortunately I talked to her before I read AC's post, or I would've done that. I decided to push her on an in-house separation instead, but I did say similar things to what AC was saying.

I am tired of this wishy-washy, "I'm going to leave you some day when I get money" crap. She told me if I can get $5000 to move her out, then she would go. I'm thinking of asking my mother or someone else to come up with the money for real and move her ass out.

So this morning, I pushed her again on the "I'm leaving" thing. When, how, what, etc... She said she can't do this anymore, her heart isn't in it and hasn't been for years. I said OK, so that means you want to separate? (we've been her so many times before) or do we go straight for divorce? She said she would give support to me and the kids as soon as she gets a job, but didn't want to divorce right away. So you want to separate and usually that means there is a chance for the marriage and you are working on it. She said she didn't want to work on the marriage. I said I want an in-house separation drawn up again that we can both agree to, similar to what MEM suggested the other day. I said, splitting up the household chores, cooking, laundry etc in a formal agreement because she is not pulling her weight. She got real quiet and didn't say anything for a long time so I got up and left and started doing something in another room.

This stuff really upsets me still talking about it with her. I can't stand to be in the same room with her right now. It's torture. I really need to knock her for a loop over this separation/divorce thing and the only way I can get her attention is to start divorce papers or something. She needs to get off her ass and make a real decision...


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## Conrad

March right back in there and read her what Affaircare wrote.

Do not back down.

Do not raise money for her.

Damn, you get my anger up sometimes.

I cannot comprehend why you put up with this.


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## MisterNiceGuy

got you... will do it...


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## MisterNiceGuy

Did not have a chance to march in there and read the AC thing yesterday... I have a really good excuse though... This is how real life gets in the way sometimes.

My wife and kids were playing with the pet guinea pig in the kitchen. The GP decides to climb behind the kitchen cabinets and can't get out! I have to spend most of the morning trying to dismantle the cabinets and end up cutting a hole in the kick board so the damn GP can get out! That burns up all my free time for the day. I went to work most of the day and came home to a great steak dinner that she made. Ate it with her and the kids. No time to talk without the kids around so I went to bed... by myself as I was really tired and I didn't want to confront her when I was so tired.

I have to say when we have these conversations and I really push for divorce, she backs off and is all nice to me for a few days (ie steak dinner) I need to push her over the edge though. I think AC's approach might be the key. Do or do not as Yoda says...

I know what she will say when I confront her with this though. She will simply state there is no money for her to move out and she is staying until she finds a job. At this point the earliest she could start a job would be in about a month or two. The MC also told me to give her a few more weeks to see if there were any changes in her towards me as she detaches from the OM emotionally.


----------



## AFEH

You know MNG, the longer someone focuses on NOT doing something, well the longer they focus on it and the longer it goes on. Let’s say your wife is “Focusing on ending her thoughts about OM”. That focus just keeps her focused on OM.

It’s a bit like trying to stop a bad habit, by focusing on stopping the bad habit. All it does is keep the bad habit “in mind”. Whereas when we focus on a good habit we lose the focus on the bad habit. Even then the new habit can take a month or so to form and become, well a habit.

True “displacement/detachment” comes about when our mind is focused on something else. That’s what your wife needs. She needs some kind of push/shove that gets her mind totally focused on “something new”. For example. Make arrangements for her to spend a month at a family or friends home and then tell her you want her to leave while you get your act together and decide if you really want to keep her or not.

Bob
You shoulda shot the guinee pig. Just joking.


----------



## MisterNiceGuy

I think this is why getting a job will help her close that chapter in her life. She needs to get out of the house and focus on something else other than me and the OM. I wish I could send her away for a month, but she is actively looking for a job and has a few interviews lined up so I can't disrupt that right now. She has told me many times that she wants to stay here with all of us until she finds a job and then she can think about the rest of this stuff. The MC has suggested I have patience here for a few more weeks.


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## IanIronwood

Atholk said:


> The entire frame here is that the wife gets to decide what happens in the relationship. So whatever the outcome will be, will be to her advantage and not yours.
> 
> You have to start making moves that she has to respond to, rather than you responding to her.


Exactly. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT SHE DOES. Anything she tells you now is simply not any more valid than anything she's told you before now. You cannot let her maintain the initiative indefinitely and expect any happy resolution. She's going to string you along until she's happy, which won't be for a while. The separation forces the issue, and at least clarifies her position in her mind. And the moment you start dating again, the whole situation will radically change in her mind. Radically.


----------



## IanIronwood

MisterNiceGuy said:


> I think this is why getting a job will help her close that chapter in her life. She needs to get out of the house and focus on something else other than me and the OM. I wish I could send her away for a month, but she is actively looking for a job and has a few interviews lined up so I can't disrupt that right now. She has told me many times that she wants to stay here with all of us until she finds a job and then she can think about the rest of this stuff. The MC has suggested I have patience here for a few more weeks.


Okay, if finding a job is her focus, then enforce that. Any time you see her not actively pursuing it, gently but firmly remind her that neither one of you can proceed with your lives until she's gone, and that you are starting to lose patience with her. She might have a few interviews lined up -- encourage her to get more. Push her on this, make it real. The in-house separation is a start, but all she's really doing is torturing you for her own comfort. She doesn't need $5000 to move out, she needs $5000 to move out comfortably. That's not your problem. 

And make sure you start packing up her things. That's a tangible sign of your expectations, and it reinforces your commitment to moving on.


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## luckyman

What you describe is not a separation. Divorce her whether she moves out or not. Put a deadline on her finding a job and moving out. She doesn't want to work on the marriage. How many times does she have to tell you this? Divorce her and set deadlines is my advice.


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## MisterNiceGuy

Except the funny thing is I checked the brower history on the family computer this morning and she was searching "how to save marriage", "is it too late to save this marriage", "gottman saving marriage", etc... I know this stuff doesn't mean a thing, but why is she thinking about this stuff??? 

That's my next step is to start divorce proceedings. It's the only way I can force her to make a decision...


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## IanIronwood

She's stalling. Plan A wasn't working, Plan B is looking shaky, and she's getting desperate. Ignore it. She should have a history that reads "finding a job". She's only thinking about saving the marriage as a stalling tactic. Keep pushing her. By keeping you hopeful, she maintains control. Once she realizes that it isn't up to her, that you have decided to end it and that she can't influence that decision apart from wholesale capitulation, then she'll have to change strategies.


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## disbelief

Maybe she realizes she messed up, maybe its a deep down sign of what she really wants. If you file she might step up or cave.
Watch her body language. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH

MisterNiceGuy said:


> Except the funny thing is I checked the brower history on the family computer this morning and she was searching "how to save marriage", "is it too late to save this marriage", "gottman saving marriage", etc... I know this stuff doesn't mean a thing, but why is she thinking about this stuff???


MNG, haven’t you been here before? Why are you posting these things?

Why not get yourself some post-it notes. Each time you see something like this in the browser history, post an answer and stick it on the PC. This time something like “Marriage only works when there’s 100% commitment to make it work”.

Bob


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## MisterNiceGuy

AFEH said:


> MNG, haven’t you been here before? Why are you posting these things?
> 
> Why not get yourself some post-it notes. Each time you see something like this in the browser history, post an answer and stick it on the PC. This time something like “Marriage only works when there’s 100% commitment to make it work”.
> 
> Bob


Yes! I agree... That's why I need to back off on posting here until something substantive happens in our relationship.. it's the same old sh1t over and over. Pushing for divorce!


----------



## turnera

MisterNiceGuy said:


> No... I don't think I ever knew what she wanted, unfortunately. I'm pretty sure I know now what she wants. She has told me many times since her affair what she wants out of a relationship. *I've been hesitant to even go and try to be the husband she wants* to have because I've been trying to move on with my life... you know the 180 stuff.


Uh...then why are you surprised she shows no interest in you?


----------



## ShuttleDIK

Ok, I've jumped through the summaries, history & recent posts. I can confidently say, quit stalling and finish it already.

You're doing yourself a tremendous disservice by staying with this woman. There's no point, unless you get off being cuckolded - that's a different story - but I haven't seen anything directly that indicates that. I'm not trying to be offensive - just real.

If you look at the outline of all these posts, the big picture, you'll see a defined path headed there. It's time to go.

You may also see the picture of a woman you really wouldn't want to be with, anyway. She certainly doesn't sound like a responsible, loving person to me.

Good Luck and take care of yourself.


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## MisterNiceGuy

turnera said:


> Uh...then why are you surprised she shows no interest in you?


Uh... she just had an emotional affair that I blew up 1.5 months ago! My MC told me it would take weeks for her to unravel herself emotionally from him.

I'm seeing signs that she is. I have been too busy at work to sit down and talk to her about what AffairCare lined out, but we happened to have lunch together (in house, not out at a restaurant) and she started asking me what it might look like if she tried to work on the marriage! She said she can't leave the children and she wants to stay in the house. I said, what I've always said. Respect. Emotional connection and a physical connection. We need to go to joint counseling. Start reading the Marriage Builder's website and maybe start working through the Gottman book together. All of that stuff that makes a marriage tick! I said otherwise, I need to move on. Find another woman and get on with my life. She started crying and went down to her bedroom...


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## turnera

What I meant was, if you are not addressing YOUR side of the marriage, that place - that marriage she was in at the time of her deciding to cheat - is still there, waiting for her. What are you doing to show her that, aside from expecting HER to do what YOU need, you also will be taking a hard look at your own actions, so that you BOTH can expect great things from the marriage?

You say you haven't done anything.


----------



## MEM2020

MNG,
If you only ever listen to one of my posts make it this one. The repair to your marriage does not start with talk therapy. It STARTS with you re-igniting passion. If you do THAT, everything else will follow. If you wait for her to do that, nothing else will ever fix your marriage. 

She needs to see some balls. Time to step up and show some leadership. She is MORE likely to stay with her if you take a leadership roll. Go do a huge workout so you are relaxed. And tonight walk into the bedroom walk straight up to her head up - making eye contact - determined facial expression - push her against the wall and give her an intense kiss. Ten seconds. Then step back and say in a firm voice "take off your clothes". She will likely hesitate - this is a test of your balls - just say "now" in a firm voice. Do NOT under any circumstances ask her for permission in any way. 

Trust me. Your W WANTS you to take charge. She soooooo does not want to be asked "dear, would it be ok if I kissed you, darling would it be alright if I touch your breasts now?, etc."

She is confused now. She WANTS to desire you. She can't tell you "take me" because if she does you are the submissive male, not the dominant male. 

YOU have to just get way out of your comfort zone and DO IT. I am fairly sure what she did today was "code" for please "just take me". 

I know this seems high risk. But actually NOT doing this given everything she has told you to date, is much higher risk. 

You do this and some day you will look back and think - that was the day I took a huge risk - and in doing so began to take back control of my marriage and my life. 

MNG - I know this is so "not you" but you need to make a decision. The cautious, reactive (not proactive), follower version of you has almost destroyed your marriage. 

Step up and take charge. Do NOT ask permission. Do this - and keep doing it and over time you WILL get comfortable with it. Trust me - I did. It took me about a year and after that it actually felt "normal". Actually better than normal. It felt great. 



MisterNiceGuy said:


> Uh... she just had an emotional affair that I blew up 1.5 months ago! My MC told me it would take weeks for her to unravel herself emotionally from him.
> 
> I'm seeing signs that she is. I have been too busy at work to sit down and talk to her about what AffairCare lined out, but we happened to have lunch together (in house, not out at a restaurant) and she started asking me what it might look like if she tried to work on the marriage! She said she can't leave the children and she wants to stay in the house. I said, what I've always said. Respect. Emotional connection and a physical connection. We need to go to joint counseling. Start reading the Marriage Builder's website and maybe start working through the Gottman book together. All of that stuff that makes a marriage tick! I said otherwise, I need to move on. Find another woman and get on with my life. She started crying and went down to her bedroom...


----------



## OOE

MEM11363 said:


> MNG,
> If you only ever listen to one of my posts make it this one. The repair to your marriage does not start with talk therapy. It STARTS with you re-igniting passion. If you do THAT, everything else will follow. If you wait for her to do that, nothing else will ever fix your marriage.
> 
> She needs to see some balls. Time to step up and show some leadership. She is MORE likely to stay with her if you take a leadership roll. Go do a huge workout so you are relaxed. And tonight walk into the bedroom walk straight up to her head up - making eye contact - determined facial expression - push her against the wall and give her an intense kiss. Ten seconds. Then step back and say in a firm voice "take off your clothes". She will likely hesitate - this is a test of your balls - just say "now" in a firm voice. Do NOT under any circumstances ask her for permission in any way.
> 
> Trust me. Your W WANTS you to take charge. She soooooo does not want to be asked "dear, would it be ok if I kissed you, darling would it be alright if I touch your breasts now?, etc."
> 
> She is confused now. She WANTS to desire you. She can't tell you "take me" because if she does you are the submissive male, not the dominant male.
> 
> YOU have to just get way out of your comfort zone and DO IT. I am fairly sure what she did today was "code" for please "just take me".
> 
> I know this seems high risk. But actually NOT doing this given everything she has told you to date, is much higher risk.
> 
> You do this and some day you will look back and think - that was the day I took a huge risk - and in doing so began to take back control of my marriage and my life.
> 
> MNG - I know this is so "not you" but you need to make a decision. The cautious, reactive (not proactive), follower version of you has almost destroyed your marriage.
> 
> Step up and take charge. Do NOT ask permission. Do this - and keep doing it and over time you WILL get comfortable with it. Trust me - I did. It took me about a year and after that it actually felt "normal". Actually better than normal. It felt great.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## OOE

One more thing... If your answer is, "but I don't want her any more," then YOU aren't being honest with HER with your mixed signals.


----------



## eagleclaw

I've been trying to say this over and over and over again. Although not this elequently! 
"Enough talk, more action!"
"Do or don't do, there is no try."
"Just do it!"


Pick your quote of inspiration and go for broke, before your marriage actually is broke - and bankrupt.





MEM11363 said:


> MNG,
> If you only ever listen to one of my posts make it this one. The repair to your marriage does not start with talk therapy. It STARTS with you re-igniting passion. If you do THAT, everything else will follow. If you wait for her to do that, nothing else will ever fix your marriage.
> 
> She needs to see some balls. Time to step up and show some leadership. She is MORE likely to stay with her if you take a leadership roll. Go do a huge workout so you are relaxed. And tonight walk into the bedroom walk straight up to her head up - making eye contact - determined facial expression - push her against the wall and give her an intense kiss. Ten seconds. Then step back and say in a firm voice "take off your clothes". She will likely hesitate - this is a test of your balls - just say "now" in a firm voice. Do NOT under any circumstances ask her for permission in any way.
> 
> Trust me. Your W WANTS you to take charge. She soooooo does not want to be asked "dear, would it be ok if I kissed you, darling would it be alright if I touch your breasts now?, etc."
> 
> She is confused now. She WANTS to desire you. She can't tell you "take me" because if she does you are the submissive male, not the dominant male.
> 
> YOU have to just get way out of your comfort zone and DO IT. I am fairly sure what she did today was "code" for please "just take me".
> 
> I know this seems high risk. But actually NOT doing this given everything she has told you to date, is much higher risk.
> 
> You do this and some day you will look back and think - that was the day I took a huge risk - and in doing so began to take back control of my marriage and my life.
> 
> MNG - I know this is so "not you" but you need to make a decision. The cautious, reactive (not proactive), follower version of you has almost destroyed your marriage.
> 
> Step up and take charge. Do NOT ask permission. Do this - and keep doing it and over time you WILL get comfortable with it. Trust me - I did. It took me about a year and after that it actually felt "normal". Actually better than normal. It felt great.


----------



## disbelief

I feel like this is all directed at me as well, so I have to ask about MEM'S post

How much control do you take there if she totally withdraws and backs away then what?

I heard a statement "create the emotion to get the result you want from a woman".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020

Dis,
MNGs wife is speaking to him in a type of code that I "believe"
I recognize. As for your situation, I have no idea how your W will react. 




disbelief said:


> I feel like this is all directed at me as well, so I have to ask about MEM'S post
> 
> How much control do you take there if she totally withdraws and backs away then what?
> 
> I heard a statement "create the emotion to get the result you want from a woman".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## disbelief

MEM11363 said:


> Dis,
> MNGs wife is speaking to him in a type of code that I "believe"
> I recognize. As for your situation, I have no idea how your W will react.


Makes two of us, maybe I'll try anyway whats to lose!

I think my wife forgot how to speak :scratchhead:, 
Anyway thanks, I am still getting in education from this thread and Manning up Material no matter what there's a long term benefit.


----------



## MisterNiceGuy

Nothing's going to happen for a few days until I get over this cold I just got last night! 

Sometimes I wonder if I'm just stupid or what... Why do I even care about her anymore? She has done zero to try and reconcile. Then I look at my kids and see how heartbroken they will be when mommy walks out the door and it kills me. Argh... Laying low until I get over this cold...


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## turnera

Yes, but keeping her around just so the kids have a mom in the house doesn't necessarily do the kids any good. They learn from whoever is around them; if she teaches them the wrong things...


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## Neil

turnera said:


> Yes, but keeping her around just so the kids have a mom in the house doesn't necessarily do the kids any good. They learn from whoever is around them; if she teaches them the wrong things...


I agree...

Kids may grow up thinking this is the norm and this bahaviour is acceptable.

Why don't you "exaggerate" and claim "Man Flu". Just to see if she has the little side in her to at least be a bit more civil and sympathetic, and who knows, she may do you another "Steak Meal" for strength which could emphasise her point that she is wanting you to be a man. It may drop her guard a little

(OK thats probably not constructuve advice, but would be interesting to see if a little mind game would work)


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## MisterNiceGuy

turnera said:


> Yes, but keeping her around just so the kids have a mom in the house doesn't necessarily do the kids any good. They learn from whoever is around them; if she teaches them the wrong things...


Exactly why this won't go on too long... maybe a month or two more. They have already been scarred from the turmoil here.


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## OOE

MNG,

Again, I've been where you are in my previous marriage. So this is from the perspective of my 20/20 hindsight, based on what I've read over the past few weeks. I see my old self in your comments.

You avoid conflict.

Procrastination is one of the ways you do it.

Not only is this weak, it's also very unhealthy for your relationship (or any future relationships).

If you wait long enough, something will change. Maybe she'll decide to stay. Maybe she'll leave. Either way, it will definitely happen _to_ you.

Of course, there's another way, but you'll have to dig pretty deep.

What do *you* want? 

Do you want her to stay? Take action along those lines. Between your two threads there is a TON of great advice... advice that's just waiting to be used.

Do you want her to leave? File.

There are no guarantees that she'll stay either way. However, at some point I think you should start living your life instead of letting it happen to you.


----------



## MisterNiceGuy

The time is nigh..

Got home from teaching my class last night. Wife had put the kids to sleep and was up waiting for me. I'm feeling lousy from this frickin cold I have, but was willing to sit and talk with her and have a glass of wine.

She had her session with the MC yesterday and he rattled her cage... Basically he told her to loosen up and soften her heart to me. She is still her with me because she feels deep down there is something "there" maybe. She said her heart is wide open to me, except the sex thing. "We are not going there yet". :rofl: If I didn't feel so damn lousy, I would've dragged her ass down to her bedroom and had my way with her... she is ready... now I need to get over this cold. No fun trying to have sex when you are sneezing all over your partner... She told me a story about a friend of ours who's sister is getting divorced because her husband was a "sex addict". She said that sounded like fun! (the sex part)...

This morning she is treating me like we are married again. I can tell she has made some type of leap mentally and wants to move forward. Just the way she is talking to me and her body language is more open, less closed. I'm sure there will be turbulence moving forward, nothing is every easy with my wife, but I think she's moving closer...


----------



## disbelief

Remeber its a roller coaster nice today crazy alien tomorrow, slow is fast in recovery, maybe she had an epiphany and u will be lucky I would remain cautious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MisterNiceGuy

disbelief said:


> Remeber its a roller coaster nice today crazy alien tomorrow, slow is fast in recovery, maybe she had an epiphany and u will be lucky I would remain cautious.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sure the roller coaster is far from over. I see her demeanor changing these past couple of days to a place she has not been like for many months. Having said that, is the roller coaster ride ever really over with any woman? It may not be as intense but there will be some ups and downs always.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MEM2020

You are going to "take her" not "ask her". And AFTER you take her she is going to be somewhat anxious. And you are going to tell her in a firm voice "things are going to work out - because I am going to MAKE them work out". This is a leadership thing. 

When she asks you questions - just respond with - "watch me and you will see how it is done". And then you need to bring your A game because she WILL respond to that. 

It is like you keep waiting for her to give you permission to "do stuff" and she keeps waiting for you to TAKE CHARGE. So take fking charge in a good way. Not a controlling way. A leading way. 




MisterNiceGuy said:


> I'm sure the roller coaster is far from over. I see her demeanor changing these past couple of days to a place she has not been like for many months. Having said that, is the roller coaster ride ever really over with any woman? It may not be as intense but there will be some ups and downs always.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

MEM11363 said:


> You are going to "take her" not "ask her". And AFTER you take her she is going to be somewhat anxious. And you are going to tell her in a firm voice "things are going to work out - because I am going to MAKE them work out". This is a leadership thing.
> 
> When she asks you questions - just respond with - "watch me and you will see how it is done". And then you need to bring your A game because she WILL respond to that.
> 
> It is like you keep waiting for her to give you permission to "do stuff" and she keeps waiting for you to TAKE CHARGE. So take fking charge in a good way. Not a controlling way. A leading way.


MEM is right.

Please listen to him - for the sake of your children.


----------



## F-102

I still say she is biding her time until things are more favorable for HER to take action. This entire situation is for HER convenience and HER convenience only. And, like a sap, you bide your time to "see what she'll do" and make excuses not to do anything. And of course, she doesn't want a D, because she'll be the bad guy who initiated it-again, for HER convenience, she wants YOU to initiate the D papers, so that she can play the shocked, innocent victim, tell anyone who isn't deaf that she "tried so hard, she really, really tried", but no, YOU were the a**hole who wanted a divorce, YOU were the jerk who drove her into the arms of another man, YOU were the clueless jackass who did nothing to keep her satisfied enough to prevent the affair in the first place.

Dammit, grow a pair and tell her to go stay with her relatives or friends. Never mind the job interviews, she'll just reject them anyway so that she can stay and manipulate you to her convenience. Tell her she can find a job in another city.

And as far as the kids, yes, there will be pain, but in the end, they will see that MOMMY was the one to f**k up the M and family, and MOMMY wanted out-not daddy.


----------



## VeryHurt

MEM11363 said:


> You are going to "take her" not "ask her". And AFTER you take her she is going to be somewhat anxious. And you are going to tell her in a firm voice "things are going to work out - because I am going to MAKE them work out". This is a leadership thing.
> 
> When she asks you questions - just respond with - "watch me and you will see how it is done". And then you need to bring your A game because she WILL respond to that.
> 
> It is like you keep waiting for her to give you permission to "do stuff" and she keeps waiting for you to TAKE CHARGE. So take fking charge in a good way. Not a controlling way. A leading way.


----------



## VeryHurt

"Things are going to work out because I am going to MAKE them work out."
What a GREAT line.
If my husband said that to me, I'd fall apart in his arms!
Good Luck !


----------



## MisterNiceGuy

Hey, I'm still here... things have changed dramatically around here. We have not had the "we are getting divorced" argument in about 3 weeks now. She requested joint counseling about 2 weeks ago and we had our first session last week. Went pretty good, nothing groundbreaking but some tough love by the MC. She has really taken to the Dr. Glover NMMNG book (she found it on my Kindle) and thinks that's something I really need to work on (which I know). I still haven't "taken her" yet. I brought the sex thing up with my counselor and he said that it was a bad idea for now. I won't go into details but he suggested I hold off for a few weeks. I love you guys, but he is my counselor and I see him face to face every week, twice a week now because I see him for IC and MC. Wife is very close to landing a job and I think it will do wonders for us not to spend so much time together...So for now, wife and I are not moving apart, but kind of in a stasis. She is very focused on her new job so not a lot of brain power going into working on the marriage. I think that's great because she has been a little obsessed with trying to figure "us" out lately. Which I have is a little refreshing from just wanting to divorce every time we talked.

As for the "manning up" journey... it becomes clearer everyday how I failed in the past and where I need to be to be a differentiated individual that is not solely attached to my wife. I need my own life and am working towards that goal every day. As Dr. Glover says, I'm working for her to be the "icing" on my cake!


----------



## Conrad

Take her


----------



## eagleclaw

Less talk, less think, more do. Must do.


----------



## Ronin

*Its over...*

MNG, I can't hold it in any longer. I realize that my opinions may not be popular, but I feel that since this is a public forum, ill just give it to you and let the chips fall, so to speak. 

As a man, I'm offended that you would continue to let your wife pull your strings for this long while continually making excuses for yourself, and for her. I would be totally and absolutely SHOCKED if you EVER had sexual contact with this woman again in this lifetime. These unending threads of the day to day contact you have had with her just SCREAMS out "beta male coward/chump". You're on here plotting with 50 random people from the internet on how to approach the prospect of having sex with your own wife in your house.....all this wishy washy behavior just further solidifies her behavior. She'd only sticking around because she doesn't have the money to go have the life she wants, so shes staying "safe" right now. All you are is a safe haven to her. If that other man was single she would be living with him right now. You need to stop hiding behind all the excuses you have created and take the steps to rebuild your life while you still have time. You're a middle aged man, you shouldn't have to be rebuilding a relationship now. However, the facts are the facts and the more you delay it, the more you miss out on that beautiful divorced woman out there who is looking for a man JUST LIKE YOU. 

STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING. STOP READING BOOKS. STOP DOING THE "180" or all these other ridiculous "stop the affair" routines. FILE FOR DIVORCE. If there is any possibility that the marriage can be reconciled, your wife will come around in a hurry. If she doesn't then you get to find out with 100% certainty what many men already know... she has already turned that corner in her mind. She DOESN'T WANT YOU anymore. She was making plans to have sex with another man and you allowed her to come back.. you actually fought for it. That's like trying to extend the duration of a poison ivy rash. I wish more men would understand that when a woman becomes emotionally involved with another man she is done FOREVER and should never be allowed to return, no matter what the situation. So many of you men on this site continually hide behind the kids and the time spent but really you are just afraid to let go. Reading this site (and others) has irrevocably removed me from the marriage pool forever. Ill never bind myself to a creature with the capacity to be as ridiculous as I've seen in these threads. My direct irritation with you MNG is that you have allowed this absurd behavior from her and now when she does leave she is going to feel justified and vindicated. You think "taking her" is a good idea? The minute you become even REMOTELY pushy towards sex with her she would have her final excuse to get rid of you forever. I'm actually utterly stunned that nobody has mentioned this. She has rebuffed your advances and continually told you in no uncertain terms that there will be no sex and people here are suggesting you "take it"? Do you honestly believe that's a good idea? You should not even WANT sex with her.. you should be disgusted by the fact that she would betray you so openly and in such a cavalier manner.

If men would drop disloyal/disrespectful/dishonest women completely, cruelly, and coldly at the very first sign of said disrespect, disloyalty, or dishonesty, they (women) would get their god damn head on straight and act like the lady's they so desperately claim themselves to be. What man in his right mind wants a woman who has given herself to be used by another man for sex or even companionship. Its sickening to even fathom that I would stay with a woman who has blatantly told me to my face that she had feelings for another man and actually took steps and went through great lengths to continue to be with another man. Now she has the audacity to actually hit you up for 5k so she can move out, and to add insult to injury....you're actually considering it. In what world is any of this even remotely masculine? look deep inside yourself and think about how you feel about her actions right now. If a woman ever makes me feel even a little bit uncomfortable, shes gone, because I know ill get another one and start that process over. Spoiled milk never gets fresh again, and no matter how much sugar you try to mix with it, it will forever be ****. Take back your self respect and end it. She is biding her time and stringing you along until she can find another man to take her away or until she gets the money/courage to move and you can rest assured she is going to blame all of this on you. Why not give her an excuse and just start dating a new woman. Life is too short to be caught up with this woman. 

Sorry to be so blunt but I've been turning blue for the better part of 2 months every time I read through your threads and while i see glimpses of hope from some random posters, nobody really gives it to you like I feel you need to hear it. I hope I don't come across as an adversary, and maybe I'm projecting my own experiences into your situation. I just hate to see any man raked through the mud like this and It takes me back to my situation with my ex girlfriend and I remember how much I begged her to come back after numerous EAs and the blatant disrespect. Ill never allow it again, ill be single until I die before I let some woman treat me like that, and I'm only 31.

Remember people, the only "180" that works, is to drop these women the instant they get the audacity to have an affair.. there is no EA/PA... she gets involved with another man, shes gone.. the end. I don't care if it was a longtime sexual relationship, or they had a few "lunch dates". Once they decide they want to be romanced and beguiled by another man, GET RID OF THEM. If this happened every time a woman was disloyal, they would realize there are going to be serious consequences and they wouldn't "toe the line" as they have been doing in relationships. These modern woman have been given the freedom to continue this behavior and until men take a decisive stand, they will continue it. 

Why is it that when the roles are reversed, women tell other women "GET RID OF THAT LOSER NOW!" but men say "just tell her she has to do her part to make this work, or else!!!" Why not drop the women like they drop men for this exact same behavior?


----------



## alphaomega

For some reason I really like this last post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

If you're not drifting apart, then a little space can be good. Women take much longer than men to feel safe and good about their decisions.

But not too long! Make sure that you are having one conversation a week, say on Sunday nights, about where you two feel you're at and where you're headed. Make it a safe place to say your feelings without expecting anything in return. Use a talking stick. And then just go back to your corners to mull over what the other person said. But make sure it's an EVEN discussion - you have just as much right to say YOUR piece as she does.


----------



## AFEH

*Re: Its over...*



Ronin said:


> MNG, I can't hold it in any longer. I realize that my opinions may not be popular, but I feel that since this is a public forum, ill just give it to you and let the chips fall, so to speak.
> 
> As a man, I'm offended that you would continue to let your wife pull your strings for this long while continually making excuses for yourself, and for her. I would be totally and absolutely SHOCKED if you EVER had sexual contact with this woman again in this lifetime. These unending threads of the day to day contact you have had with her just SCREAMS out "beta male coward/chump". You're on here plotting with 50 random people from the internet on how to approach the prospect of having sex with your own wife in your house.....all this wishy washy behavior just further solidifies her behavior. She'd only sticking around because she doesn't have the money to go have the life she wants, so shes staying "safe" right now. All you are is a safe haven to her. If that other man was single she would be living with him right now. You need to stop hiding behind all the excuses you have created and take the steps to rebuild your life while you still have time. You're a middle aged man, you shouldn't have to be rebuilding a relationship now. However, the facts are the facts and the more you delay it, the more you miss out on that beautiful divorced woman out there who is looking for a man JUST LIKE YOU.
> 
> STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING. STOP READING BOOKS. STOP DOING THE "180" or all these other ridiculous "stop the affair" routines. FILE FOR DIVORCE. If there is any possibility that the marriage can be reconciled, your wife will come around in a hurry. If she doesn't then you get to find out with 100% certainty what many men already know... she has already turned that corner in her mind. She DOESN'T WANT YOU anymore. She was making plans to have sex with another man and you allowed her to come back.. you actually fought for it. That's like trying to extend the duration of a poison ivy rash. I wish more men would understand that when a woman becomes emotionally involved with another man she is done FOREVER and should never be allowed to return, no matter what the situation. So many of you men on this site continually hide behind the kids and the time spent but really you are just afraid to let go. Reading this site (and others) has irrevocably removed me from the marriage pool forever. Ill never bind myself to a creature with the capacity to be as ridiculous as I've seen in these threads. My direct irritation with you MNG is that you have allowed this absurd behavior from her and now when she does leave she is going to feel justified and vindicated. You think "taking her" is a good idea? The minute you become even REMOTELY pushy towards sex with her she would have her final excuse to get rid of you forever. I'm actually utterly stunned that nobody has mentioned this. She has rebuffed your advances and continually told you in no uncertain terms that there will be no sex and people here are suggesting you "take it"? Do you honestly believe that's a good idea? You should not even WANT sex with her.. you should be disgusted by the fact that she would betray you so openly and in such a cavalier manner.
> 
> If men would drop disloyal/disrespectful/dishonest women completely, cruelly, and coldly at the very first sign of said disrespect, disloyalty, or dishonesty, they (women) would get their god damn head on straight and act like the lady's they so desperately claim themselves to be. What man in his right mind wants a woman who has given herself to be used by another man for sex or even companionship. Its sickening to even fathom that I would stay with a woman who has blatantly told me to my face that she had feelings for another man and actually took steps and went through great lengths to continue to be with another man. Now she has the audacity to actually hit you up for 5k so she can move out, and to add insult to injury....you're actually considering it. In what world is any of this even remotely masculine? look deep inside yourself and think about how you feel about her actions right now. If a woman ever makes me feel even a little bit uncomfortable, shes gone, because I know ill get another one and start that process over. Spoiled milk never gets fresh again, and no matter how much sugar you try to mix with it, it will forever be ****. Take back your self respect and end it. She is biding her time and stringing you along until she can find another man to take her away or until she gets the money/courage to move and you can rest assured she is going to blame all of this on you. Why not give her an excuse and just start dating a new woman. Life is too short to be caught up with this woman.
> 
> Sorry to be so blunt but I've been turning blue for the better part of 2 months every time I read through your threads and while i see glimpses of hope from some random posters, nobody really gives it to you like I feel you need to hear it. I hope I don't come across as an adversary, and maybe I'm projecting my own experiences into your situation. I just hate to see any man raked through the mud like this and It takes me back to my situation with my ex girlfriend and I remember how much I begged her to come back after numerous EAs and the blatant disrespect. Ill never allow it again, ill be single until I die before I let some woman treat me like that, and I'm only 31.
> 
> Remember people, the only "180" that works, is to drop these women the instant they get the audacity to have an affair.. there is no EA/PA... she gets involved with another man, shes gone.. the end. I don't care if it was a longtime sexual relationship, or they had a few "lunch dates". Once they decide they want to be romanced and beguiled by another man, GET RID OF THEM. If this happened every time a woman was disloyal, they would realize there are going to be serious consequences and they wouldn't "toe the line" as they have been doing in relationships. These modern woman have been given the freedom to continue this behavior and until men take a decisive stand, they will continue it.
> 
> Why is it that when the roles are reversed, women tell other women "GET RID OF THAT LOSER NOW!" but men say "just tell her she has to do her part to make this work, or else!!!" Why not drop the women like they drop men for this exact same behavior?


While I agree with a lot of what you say we all know “it ain’t that easy”. I simply don’t believe it’s possible for a husband to end his marriage at the first hint of trouble, especially when children are involved.

So we look to “understand”. What takes a long while to understand is that the wife is and has been looking for a way out of the marriage for a while, months or maybe even years. But that in and of itself is almost an impossible circumstance to “understand” let alone believe and let alone accept the truth of it.

Why? Because as the “loving and loyal spouse” we just don’t “think that way”. So we can’t even imagine that our “life partner” would ever think that way either.

So the backwards and forwards continues, more so as the disloyal spouse is an exceptionally manipulative person who drops breadcrumbs to keep the loyal spouse onside, onside as their back-up plan.

There does come a time when the loyal spouse must say “Crap or get off the pot” and if they’ll do neither then the LS must force the issue and initiate the termination of the marriage and seriously mean it.

Bob


----------



## ManDup

MisterNiceGuy said:


> Hey, I'm still here... things have changed dramatically around here. We have not had the "we are getting divorced" argument in about 3 weeks now. She requested joint counseling about 2 weeks ago and we had our first session last week. Went pretty good, nothing groundbreaking but some tough love by the MC. She has really taken to the Dr. Glover NMMNG book (she found it on my Kindle) and thinks that's something I really need to work on (which I know). I still haven't "taken her" yet. I brought the sex thing up with my counselor and he said that it was a bad idea for now. I won't go into details but he suggested I hold off for a few weeks. I love you guys, but he is my counselor and I see him face to face every week, twice a week now because I see him for IC and MC. Wife is very close to landing a job and I think it will do wonders for us not to spend so much time together...So for now, wife and I are not moving apart, but kind of in a stasis. She is very focused on her new job so not a lot of brain power going into working on the marriage. I think that's great because she has been a little obsessed with trying to figure "us" out lately. Which I have is a little refreshing from just wanting to divorce every time we talked.
> 
> As for the "manning up" journey... it becomes clearer everyday how I failed in the past and where I need to be to be a differentiated individual that is not solely attached to my wife. I need my own life and am working towards that goal every day. As Dr. Glover says, I'm working for her to be the "icing" on my cake!


What are ya, yella? I've read this entire thread, and the last one, and I can say definitively that you are the biggest chicken I've ever encountered in all my life. Take her. Now. Shut up and do it. Your MC is wrong. Don't post here again until you do. You're making us all sick.


----------



## ManDup

F-102 said:


> I still say she is biding her time until things are more favorable for HER to take action. This entire situation is for HER convenience and HER convenience only. And, like a sap, you bide your time to "see what she'll do" and make excuses not to do anything. And of course, she doesn't want a D, because she'll be the bad guy who initiated it-again, for HER convenience, she wants YOU to initiate the D papers, so that she can play the shocked, innocent victim, tell anyone who isn't deaf that she "tried so hard, she really, really tried", but no, YOU were the a**hole who wanted a divorce, YOU were the jerk who drove her into the arms of another man, YOU were the clueless jackass who did nothing to keep her satisfied enough to prevent the affair in the first place.
> 
> Dammit, grow a pair and tell her to go stay with her relatives or friends. Never mind the job interviews, she'll just reject them anyway so that she can stay and manipulate you to her convenience. Tell her she can find a job in another city.
> 
> And as far as the kids, yes, there will be pain, but in the end, they will see that MOMMY was the one to f**k up the M and family, and MOMMY wanted out-not daddy.


One way to find out. Take her.


----------



## MisterNiceGuy

Yes... it's become painfully obvious that this is what I need to do. She even mentioned last night after dinner "we haven't had sex in months, do you know that!" Then goes on to tell me she is not open to sex "for a while", or some other BS. She even said I was "inhibited" a couple of days ago... I just need to get over myself and do it... OK, no postings here until it happens...


----------



## turnera

Ok, if you're going to go that route, realize that the way a man sees 'take her' and the way a woman sees 'take her' can be two vastly different things. If my DH came on to me strong and threw me on the bed or something, I'd be kicking him in the nads and running out of the room, because my rape-fear instincts would take over. Know what works for her.


----------



## eagleclaw

MisterNiceGuy said:


> Yes... it's become painfully obvious that this is what I need to do. She even mentioned last night after dinner "we haven't had sex in months, do you know that!" Then goes on to tell me she is not open to sex "for a while", or some other BS. .


That's the funny thing with womem sometimes - you can't always take what they say as literal. Sometimes what they want is exactly the opposite of what there saying.


----------



## turnera

She MAY be open to you wooing her again like you did when you dating.

After all, THAT is the reason she decided to choose you, isn't it?


----------



## MisterNiceGuy

eagleclaw said:


> That's the funny thing with womem sometimes - you can't always take what they say as literal. Sometimes what they want is exactly the opposite of what there saying.


Sorry, breaking my promise not to post again until sex but... 

Exactly... I learned that lesson the hard way during the affair. She would say one thing and really meant another. I never knew how much "translation" was needed to decipher what comes out of a woman's mouth. My therapist even walked me through a few "requests" she made of me a couple of weeks ago. Like asking me to coach our kids soccer team. What that really means is that she wants me to step up and take the lead and follow through on something. Also, she must mention sex a couple times a day. Either we don't have it or some sex joke. She is sexual charged and in the right situation, she'll probably crumble. She's ready. I'm going to follow MEM's advice from a couple of weeks ago...


----------



## Conrad

BEER

"Helping unattractive people have sex since 1600"

Make sure she's had a few.



MisterNiceGuy said:


> Sorry, breaking my promise not to post again until sex but...
> 
> Exactly... I learned that lesson the hard way during the affair. She would say one thing and really meant another. I never knew how much "translation" was needed to decipher what comes out of a woman's mouth. My therapist even walked me through a few "requests" she made of me a couple of weeks ago. Like asking me to coach our kids soccer team. What that really means is that she wants me to step up and take the lead and follow through on something. Also, she must mention sex a couple times a day. Either we don't have it or some sex joke. She is sexual charged and in the right situation, she'll probably crumble. She's ready. I'm going to follow MEM's advice from a couple of weeks ago...


----------



## AFEH

Mating between the most successful species on the planet ain’t that complicated.

Bob


----------



## MEM2020

*Fear and passion*

MNG,
I need you to know something. It is ok to be afraid. In fact it is normal to fear rejection. And for a man - sexual rejection is hard. I hope for your sake what I am about to say makes sense. Courage is about doing the "right" thing even when you are afraid. When you go to "take" your W that will require an act of courage. She might reject you. 

That said, the act of boldly initiating will show that YOU are a man of courage. And that you, for the good of the family are willing to face rejection. If you conceal your fear - and simply put yourself out there 100% - then no matter what she does you can look in the mirror with pride. Because that is all we as men can do - have courage and give it our best shot. And THAT is all you should ask of yourself. 

If you truly do that and she rejects you, that is on her not on you. But the key thing here is for you to understand something, she needs to see leadership and courage from you. If she sees that you will have taken a step forward toward her respecting you no matter what else happens. 

It is going to be very hard for you to do this. You have a deeply ingrained habit of asking her "permission" for things that matter. She DOES NOT WANT THAT in your sexual dynamic. If you ask her permission she will simply see you as unwilling to "put yourself out there". In a very real sense - at a core level - she will see that as YOU lacking passion for HER. 

So go do a huge workout and max out your endorphines. And then bring it and whatever happens happens. But don't be tentative and do NOT TALK about it beforehand. She wants to see what you are made of. SURPRISE her. 




MisterNiceGuy said:


> Sorry, breaking my promise not to post again until sex but...
> 
> Exactly... I learned that lesson the hard way during the affair. She would say one thing and really meant another. I never knew how much "translation" was needed to decipher what comes out of a woman's mouth. My therapist even walked me through a few "requests" she made of me a couple of weeks ago. Like asking me to coach our kids soccer team. What that really means is that she wants me to step up and take the lead and follow through on something. Also, she must mention sex a couple times a day. Either we don't have it or some sex joke. She is sexual charged and in the right situation, she'll probably crumble. She's ready. I'm going to follow MEM's advice from a couple of weeks ago...


----------



## MisterNiceGuy

MEM, Exactly! I've been thinking about this for a while and no matter what happens, she will respect me more either way. Even if the sex isn't that great. I took the initiative. She can reject me and I'll just let it go and not take it personally... It's all I can do! Thanks for spelling it out to me...


----------



## ManDup

MisterNiceGuy said:


> Sorry, breaking my promise not to post again until sex but...
> 
> Exactly... I learned that lesson the hard way during the affair. She would say one thing and really meant another. I never knew how much "translation" was needed to decipher what comes out of a woman's mouth. My therapist even walked me through a few "requests" she made of me a couple of weeks ago. Like asking me to coach our kids soccer team. What that really means is that she wants me to step up and take the lead and follow through on something. Also, she must mention sex a couple times a day. Either we don't have it or some sex joke. She is sexual charged and in the right situation, she'll probably crumble. She's ready. I'm going to follow MEM's advice from a couple of weeks ago...


Good man. Your mother and I are proud of you.


----------



## OOE

Ronin said:


> MNG, I can't hold it in any longer. I realize that my opinions may not be popular, but I feel that since this is a public forum, ill just give it to you and let the chips fall, so to speak.
> 
> As a man, I'm offended that you would continue to let your wife pull your strings for this long while continually making excuses for yourself, and for her. I would be totally and absolutely SHOCKED if you EVER had sexual contact with this woman again in this lifetime. These unending threads of the day to day contact you have had with her just SCREAMS out "beta male coward/chump". You're on here plotting with 50 random people from the internet on how to approach the prospect of having sex with your own wife in your house.....all this wishy washy behavior just further solidifies her behavior. She'd only sticking around because she doesn't have the money to go have the life she wants, so shes staying "safe" right now. All you are is a safe haven to her. If that other man was single she would be living with him right now. You need to stop hiding behind all the excuses you have created and take the steps to rebuild your life while you still have time. You're a middle aged man, you shouldn't have to be rebuilding a relationship now. However, the facts are the facts and the more you delay it, the more you miss out on that beautiful divorced woman out there who is looking for a man JUST LIKE YOU.
> 
> STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING. STOP READING BOOKS. STOP DOING THE "180" or all these other ridiculous "stop the affair" routines. FILE FOR DIVORCE. If there is any possibility that the marriage can be reconciled, your wife will come around in a hurry. If she doesn't then you get to find out with 100% certainty what many men already know... she has already turned that corner in her mind. She DOESN'T WANT YOU anymore. She was making plans to have sex with another man and you allowed her to come back.. you actually fought for it. That's like trying to extend the duration of a poison ivy rash. I wish more men would understand that when a woman becomes emotionally involved with another man she is done FOREVER and should never be allowed to return, no matter what the situation. So many of you men on this site continually hide behind the kids and the time spent but really you are just afraid to let go. Reading this site (and others) has irrevocably removed me from the marriage pool forever. Ill never bind myself to a creature with the capacity to be as ridiculous as I've seen in these threads. My direct irritation with you MNG is that you have allowed this absurd behavior from her and now when she does leave she is going to feel justified and vindicated. You think "taking her" is a good idea? The minute you become even REMOTELY pushy towards sex with her she would have her final excuse to get rid of you forever. I'm actually utterly stunned that nobody has mentioned this. She has rebuffed your advances and continually told you in no uncertain terms that there will be no sex and people here are suggesting you "take it"? Do you honestly believe that's a good idea? You should not even WANT sex with her.. you should be disgusted by the fact that she would betray you so openly and in such a cavalier manner.
> 
> If men would drop disloyal/disrespectful/dishonest women completely, cruelly, and coldly at the very first sign of said disrespect, disloyalty, or dishonesty, they (women) would get their god damn head on straight and act like the lady's they so desperately claim themselves to be. What man in his right mind wants a woman who has given herself to be used by another man for sex or even companionship. Its sickening to even fathom that I would stay with a woman who has blatantly told me to my face that she had feelings for another man and actually took steps and went through great lengths to continue to be with another man. Now she has the audacity to actually hit you up for 5k so she can move out, and to add insult to injury....you're actually considering it. In what world is any of this even remotely masculine? look deep inside yourself and think about how you feel about her actions right now. If a woman ever makes me feel even a little bit uncomfortable, shes gone, because I know ill get another one and start that process over. Spoiled milk never gets fresh again, and no matter how much sugar you try to mix with it, it will forever be ****. Take back your self respect and end it. She is biding her time and stringing you along until she can find another man to take her away or until she gets the money/courage to move and you can rest assured she is going to blame all of this on you. Why not give her an excuse and just start dating a new woman. Life is too short to be caught up with this woman.
> 
> Sorry to be so blunt but I've been turning blue for the better part of 2 months every time I read through your threads and while i see glimpses of hope from some random posters, nobody really gives it to you like I feel you need to hear it. I hope I don't come across as an adversary, and maybe I'm projecting my own experiences into your situation. I just hate to see any man raked through the mud like this and It takes me back to my situation with my ex girlfriend and I remember how much I begged her to come back after numerous EAs and the blatant disrespect. Ill never allow it again, ill be single until I die before I let some woman treat me like that, and I'm only 31.
> 
> Remember people, the only "180" that works, is to drop these women the instant they get the audacity to have an affair.. there is no EA/PA... she gets involved with another man, shes gone.. the end. I don't care if it was a longtime sexual relationship, or they had a few "lunch dates". Once they decide they want to be romanced and beguiled by another man, GET RID OF THEM. If this happened every time a woman was disloyal, they would realize there are going to be serious consequences and they wouldn't "toe the line" as they have been doing in relationships. These modern woman have been given the freedom to continue this behavior and until men take a decisive stand, they will continue it.
> 
> Why is it that when the roles are reversed, women tell other women "GET RID OF THAT LOSER NOW!" but men say "just tell her she has to do her part to make this work, or else!!!" Why not drop the women like they drop men for this exact same behavior?


Um... Commitment?

Just because she failed to stand by her commitment doesn't mean he's wrong for standing by his. No matter the cost to his pride.

If more people really understood that marriage was about commitment rather than emotions, there'd be far fewer divorces.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Deejo

OOE said:


> If more people really understood that marriage was about commitment rather than emotions, there'd be far fewer divorces.


Or if they understood that the pain and penalties for breaking the commitment would be terrible, swift, and irreversible, they may give it a second thought.

Waffling is not commitment ... on either side's behalf.


----------



## MisterNiceGuy

OK, it's been a while and I said I wouldn't post until I had sex with my wife... well that happened last night!

I could tell she was very amped up about sex the past couple of weeks. She had been slowly coming around in terms of our relationship the past few weeks. Really concentrating on our marriage and not try to run away like before.

I think she finally put her EA away mentally and started the hard work of opening up to me again. I saw a big swing in my favor a couple of weeks ago. Last Saturday night we went out and she looked killer but circumstances didn't allow me to "take" her that night. Last night we were sitting on the couch after the kids went to bed and I was telling her how good she looked last weekend and next thing you know I've got her in bed ripping her clothes off and we had crazy good sex (she said "you fvcked me good!"). The best sex in probably 15 years!

I won't say that our relationship isn't out of the woods yet but I can tell you that I am approaching the edge of the woods and if we keep having sex like that I'm going to be married for quite some time...


----------



## eagleclaw

Good to hear MNG. I'm very happy to hear that. Just remember, don't immediately cave or change your behaviour because your feeling good/relieved right now. You don't want to fall back on old behaviours/habits. Also, keep the sexual chemistry flowing, but let her chase you a little as well. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Neil

MisterNiceGuy said:


> OK, it's been a while and I said I wouldn't post until I had sex with my wife... well that happened last night!
> 
> I could tell she was very amped up about sex the past couple of weeks. She had been slowly coming around in terms of our relationship the past few weeks. Really concentrating on our marriage and not try to run away like before.
> 
> I think she finally put her EA away mentally and started the hard work of opening up to me again. I saw a big swing in my favor a couple of weeks ago. Last Saturday night we went out and she looked killer but circumstances didn't allow me to "take" her that night. Last night we were sitting on the couch after the kids went to bed and I was telling her how good she looked last weekend and next thing you know I've got her in bed ripping her clothes off and we had crazy good sex (she said "you fvcked me good!"). The best sex in probably 15 years!
> 
> I won't say that our relationship isn't out of the woods yet but I can tell you that I am approaching the edge of the woods and if we keep having sex like that I'm going to be married for quite some time...


:woohoo:

and the crowd roared

:smthumbup:

Now to keep it up (no pun intended)


----------



## LonelyNLost

That's a triumph MisterNiceGuy! I wondered where you had gone!


----------



## AFEH

eagleclaw said:


> Good to hear MNG. I'm very happy to hear that. Just remember, don't immediately cave or change your behaviour because your feeling good/relieved right now. You don't want to fall back on old behaviours/habits. Also, keep the sexual chemistry flowing, but let her chase you a little as well. Keep up the good work.


Would like to second that. I found marriage can lead to isolation. In that we put far to much time and emphasis on our primary relationship with our wife. I did that for a couple of decades and when we changed our life style one of my key goals was to establish a network of friends and activities outside of my marriage. I think those things very very important. Thinking about it, it was crazy to put almost a total dependency on my wife and work for my life’s fulfilments. But it happens and we don’t even notice it, we’re not aware of it.

Bob


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## Ronin

You have proven me completely wrong... good work, and congrats. Good luck

Ronin


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## VeryHurt

Way to go MNG !!!!!
Finally...we are ALL relieved !!!!
Congratulations !!


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## Affaircare

"Nuff Said!


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## alphaomega

Lol. Yeah, I'm smiling right now.


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## Conrad

Bravo.....

Stay the course.




MisterNiceGuy said:


> OK, it's been a while and I said I wouldn't post until I had sex with my wife... well that happened last night!
> 
> I could tell she was very amped up about sex the past couple of weeks. She had been slowly coming around in terms of our relationship the past few weeks. Really concentrating on our marriage and not try to run away like before.
> 
> I think she finally put her EA away mentally and started the hard work of opening up to me again. I saw a big swing in my favor a couple of weeks ago. Last Saturday night we went out and she looked killer but circumstances didn't allow me to "take" her that night. Last night we were sitting on the couch after the kids went to bed and I was telling her how good she looked last weekend and next thing you know I've got her in bed ripping her clothes off and we had crazy good sex (she said "you fvcked me good!"). The best sex in probably 15 years!
> 
> I won't say that our relationship isn't out of the woods yet but I can tell you that I am approaching the edge of the woods and if we keep having sex like that I'm going to be married for quite some time...


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## Conrad

AFEH said:


> Would like to second that. I found marriage can lead to isolation. In that we put far to much time and emphasis on our primary relationship with our wife. I did that for a couple of decades and when we changed our life style one of my key goals was to establish a network of friends and activities outside of my marriage. I think those things very very important. Thinking about it, it was crazy to put almost a total dependency on my wife and work for my life’s fulfilments. But it happens and we don’t even notice it, we’re not aware of it.
> 
> Bob


Damn... I will second that.

I'm re-establishing contact with all my friends.

One of them was honest enough to say, "When we're together, I don't want to hear a word about her. It's all you've been about for the past 5 years."

Wow

That's a good friend.


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## Trenton

Yay! MNG! Glad to read!!!


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## AFEH

Conrad said:


> One of them was honest enough to say, "When we're together, I don't want to hear a word about her. It's all you've been about for the past 5 years."


Will be interesting to see if you can hold your tongue.

Massive sign that the problems you were having weren't resolvable. I was the same during certain phases of my marriage.


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## Conrad

AFEH said:


> Will be interesting to see if you can hold your tongue.
> 
> Massive sign that the problems you were having weren't resolvable. I was the same during certain phases of my marriage.


AFEH,

For awhile, I've suspected I've had a hybrid of MEM's and yours at home.

The difference is that MEM's apologizes - or he can at least figure out how to set the stage for one better than I.


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## MisterNiceGuy

Had a talk with the wife last night and she said after dealing with the MC for the past 6 months he told her to make a decision about getting in all the way with me or leaving and she said she wanted to be in all the way with me... But we are in a completely different marriage than we were in six months ago! I'm having cognitive dissonance right now because the past couple of years I've had this angry, *****y wife and the past couple of weeks have been heaven. I know there will be ups and downs and the work isn't over for both of us, but is sure feels much better right now so I will take it! 

The biggest thing I learned was that she will not be the center of my universe anymore... enough said there...

I want to thank you all, especially MEM, Conrad, AFEH, AlphaOmega, AffairCare and Deejo... I'm sure I'm missing a couple of you guys but you made all the difference in helping me get through this!


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## eagleclaw

Good luck. And be diligent!


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## MisterNiceGuy

You too Eagleclaw... thanks for helping out!

This obviously was a wake up call. Diligence is key!


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## AFEH

MisterNiceGuy said:


> Had a talk with the wife last night and she said after dealing with the MC for the past 6 months he told her to make a decision about getting in all the way with me or leaving and she said she wanted to be in all the way with me... But we are in a completely different marriage than we were in six months ago! I'm having cognitive dissonance right now because the past couple of years I've had this angry, *****y wife and the past couple of weeks have been heaven. I know there will be ups and downs and the work isn't over for both of us, but is sure feels much better right now so I will take it!
> 
> The biggest thing I learned was that she will not be the center of my universe anymore... enough said there...
> 
> I want to thank you all, especially MEM, Conrad, AFEH, AlphaOmega, AffairCare and Deejo... I'm sure I'm missing a couple of you guys but you made all the difference in helping me get through this!


Sounds like you are in a very different world than the one you were in before. The same objects all around you, but a very different world.

There’s one thing in life that’s guaranteed other than the taxman and death, and that’s “change”. But it can be difficult to “keep up” with the changes going on inside of us and those around us.

There’s a few books that changed the ways I think about things and therefore the world I live in. It’s “Awareness” by Anthony de Mello. MNG the lessons in the book are simple but very profound. Given where you are at the moment I cannot recommend it highly enough to you.

Bob


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## Conrad

MNG,

I've been tough on you - probably as much as anyone else.

Stay the course brother.

Don't let up now.



MisterNiceGuy said:


> Had a talk with the wife last night and she said after dealing with the MC for the past 6 months he told her to make a decision about getting in all the way with me or leaving and she said she wanted to be in all the way with me... But we are in a completely different marriage than we were in six months ago! I'm having cognitive dissonance right now because the past couple of years I've had this angry, *****y wife and the past couple of weeks have been heaven. I know there will be ups and downs and the work isn't over for both of us, but is sure feels much better right now so I will take it!
> 
> The biggest thing I learned was that she will not be the center of my universe anymore... enough said there...
> 
> I want to thank you all, especially MEM, Conrad, AFEH, AlphaOmega, AffairCare and Deejo... I'm sure I'm missing a couple of you guys but you made all the difference in helping me get through this!


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## VeryHurt

Dear MNG:

I've been reading your posts for months and I know that it's be difficult for you.

Wishing you peace and happiness !

Sincerely ~

Very Hurt


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## MEM2020

Plan your work and work your plan. She wants you to lead. Leaders follow a plan. I am happy that you have taken a step in the right direction.




MisterNiceGuy said:


> Had a talk with the wife last night and she said after dealing with the MC for the past 6 months he told her to make a decision about getting in all the way with me or leaving and she said she wanted to be in all the way with me... But we are in a completely different marriage than we were in six months ago! I'm having cognitive dissonance right now because the past couple of years I've had this angry, *****y wife and the past couple of weeks have been heaven. I know there will be ups and downs and the work isn't over for both of us, but is sure feels much better right now so I will take it!
> 
> The biggest thing I learned was that she will not be the center of my universe anymore... enough said there...
> 
> I want to thank you all, especially MEM, Conrad, AFEH, AlphaOmega, AffairCare and Deejo... I'm sure I'm missing a couple of you guys but you made all the difference in helping me get through this!


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## AFEH

calmmarian319 said:


> Love the quote "forgive or re-live" who is it (or is it you?)
> 
> Marian Hobson
> Marriage Master


I own that one but don’t know the originator, Conrad pinched it lol. Every time I see AFEH at the bottom of one of Conrad’s posts I think it’s me. But I’ve got used to it although I did think for a while I was going a bit schizophrenic. Just at the moment trying to live up to it as far as my stbx is concerned.

Bob


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## AFEH

MEM11363 said:


> Plan your work and work your plan. She wants you to lead. Leaders follow a plan. I am happy that you have taken a step in the right direction.


Absolutely. Be a “consultative leader” as head of the family. Not a dominating leader, there’s a massive difference.

As a consultative leader you will have your very own bottom line needs and preferences where, the direction, you want your family and yourself to go. As will your wife. And these needs and preferences will be based on your own unique set of core values and beliefs as will your wife’s needs and preferences be based on her own unique set of core values and beliefs.

It’s pure heaven when those core values and beliefs match and merge such that you are both pulling and pushing “in the same direction “as one””. It’s very difficult, hellish, when they don’t match.

Bob


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## limeyx

MisterNiceGuy said:


> Had a talk with the wife last night and she said after dealing with the MC for the past 6 months he told her to make a decision about getting in all the way with me or leaving and she said she wanted to be in all the way with me... But we are in a completely different marriage than we were in six months ago! I'm having cognitive dissonance right now because the past couple of years I've had this angry, *****y wife and the past couple of weeks have been heaven. I know there will be ups and downs and the work isn't over for both of us, but is sure feels much better right now so I will take it!
> 
> The biggest thing I learned was that she will not be the center of my universe anymore... enough said there...
> 
> I want to thank you all, especially MEM, Conrad, AFEH, AlphaOmega, AffairCare and Deejo... I'm sure I'm missing a couple of you guys but you made all the difference in helping me get through this!


I really and sincerely hope this works out for you. Your wife is really lucky to have someone with the persistence you've shown, even when things may have seemed hopeless.

I will be rooting for you.


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## MEM2020

Bob,
Early in our marriage I expressed a desire to go on a vacation to visit 2 specific national parks that were near each other. The kids were young, the logistics would have been difficult for them and for us and so my W kept putting me off. Our "second to last" conversation about this trip was her telling me that in 5 years or so the kids will be old enough for us to go. 

Shortly after that, in the course of casual conversation I told her I had decided to plan a trip to those parks during the upcoming summer with a good (male) friend from work who she knew and liked. She got really quiet. I changed the subject. A few minutes later she asks "would it be ok if I came with you and "friend" this summer"? I said "I would rather go with you, I was only going to invite him because you don't seem to want to go". She tells me she wants to go and explains we can bring our 1 year old (tote her around in the baby backpack and get family to watch the older two). 

About halfway through the vacation itself she volunteers that she was having an awesome time, and that during the 4-5 years prior she had been "putting me off" it was because she didn't think it would be a fun place to vacay. 

I simply raise this as an example of that "participative" leadership. 




AFEH said:


> Absolutely. Be a “consultative leader” as head of the family. Not a dominating leader, there’s a massive difference.
> 
> As a consultative leader you will have your very own bottom line needs and preferences where, the direction, you want your family and yourself to go. As will your wife. And these needs and preferences will be based on your own unique set of core values and beliefs as will your wife’s needs and preferences be based on her own unique set of core values and beliefs.
> 
> It’s pure heaven when those core values and beliefs match and merge such that you are both pulling and pushing “in the same direction “as one””. It’s very difficult, hellish, when they don’t match.
> 
> Bob


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## Conrad

MEM11363 said:


> Bob,
> Early in our marriage I expressed a desire to go on a vacation to visit 2 specific national parks that were near each other. The kids were young, the logistics would have been difficult for them and for us and so my W kept putting me off. Our "second to last" conversation about this trip was her telling me that in 5 years or so the kids will be old enough for us to go.
> 
> Shortly after that, in the course of casual conversation I told her I had decided to plan a trip to those parks during the upcoming summer with a good (male) friend from work who she knew and liked. She got really quiet. I changed the subject. A few minutes later she asks "would it be ok if I came with you and "friend" this summer"? I said "I would rather go with you, I was only going to invite him because you don't seem to want to go". She tells me she wants to go and explains we can bring our 1 year old (tote her around in the baby backpack and get family to watch the older two).
> 
> About halfway through the vacation itself she volunteers that she was having an awesome time, and that during the 4-5 years prior she had been "putting me off" it was because she didn't think it would be a fun place to vacay.
> 
> I simply raise this as an example of that "participative" leadership.


Masterful


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## malagacoast

*Re: Its over...*



Ronin said:


> MNG, I can't hold it in any longer. I realize that my opinions may not be popular, but I feel that since this is a public forum, ill just give it to you and let the chips fall, so to speak.
> 
> As a man, I'm offended that you would continue to let your wife pull your strings for this long while continually making excuses for yourself, and for her. I would be totally and absolutely SHOCKED if you EVER had sexual contact with this woman again in this lifetime. These unending threads of the day to day contact you have had with her just SCREAMS out "beta male coward/chump". You're on here plotting with 50 random people from the internet on how to approach the prospect of having sex with your own wife in your house.....all this wishy washy behavior just further solidifies her behavior. She'd only sticking around because she doesn't have the money to go have the life she wants, so shes staying "safe" right now. All you are is a safe haven to her. If that other man was single she would be living with him right now. You need to stop hiding behind all the excuses you have created and take the steps to rebuild your life while you still have time. You're a middle aged man, you shouldn't have to be rebuilding a relationship now. However, the facts are the facts and the more you delay it, the more you miss out on that beautiful divorced woman out there who is looking for a man JUST LIKE YOU.
> 
> STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING. STOP READING BOOKS. STOP DOING THE "180" or all these other ridiculous "stop the affair" routines. FILE FOR DIVORCE. If there is any possibility that the marriage can be reconciled, your wife will come around in a hurry. If she doesn't then you get to find out with 100% certainty what many men already know... she has already turned that corner in her mind. She DOESN'T WANT YOU anymore. She was making plans to have sex with another man and you allowed her to come back.. you actually fought for it. That's like trying to extend the duration of a poison ivy rash. I wish more men would understand that when a woman becomes emotionally involved with another man she is done FOREVER and should never be allowed to return, no matter what the situation. So many of you men on this site continually hide behind the kids and the time spent but really you are just afraid to let go. Reading this site (and others) has irrevocably removed me from the marriage pool forever. Ill never bind myself to a creature with the capacity to be as ridiculous as I've seen in these threads. My direct irritation with you MNG is that you have allowed this absurd behavior from her and now when she does leave she is going to feel justified and vindicated. You think "taking her" is a good idea? The minute you become even REMOTELY pushy towards sex with her she would have her final excuse to get rid of you forever. I'm actually utterly stunned that nobody has mentioned this. She has rebuffed your advances and continually told you in no uncertain terms that there will be no sex and people here are suggesting you "take it"? Do you honestly believe that's a good idea? You should not even WANT sex with her.. you should be disgusted by the fact that she would betray you so openly and in such a cavalier manner.
> 
> If men would drop disloyal/disrespectful/dishonest women completely, cruelly, and coldly at the very first sign of said disrespect, disloyalty, or dishonesty, they (women) would get their god damn head on straight and act like the lady's they so desperately claim themselves to be. What man in his right mind wants a woman who has given herself to be used by another man for sex or even companionship. Its sickening to even fathom that I would stay with a woman who has blatantly told me to my face that she had feelings for another man and actually took steps and went through great lengths to continue to be with another man. Now she has the audacity to actually hit you up for 5k so she can move out, and to add insult to injury....you're actually considering it. In what world is any of this even remotely masculine? look deep inside yourself and think about how you feel about her actions right now. If a woman ever makes me feel even a little bit uncomfortable, shes gone, because I know ill get another one and start that process over. Spoiled milk never gets fresh again, and no matter how much sugar you try to mix with it, it will forever be ****. Take back your self respect and end it. She is biding her time and stringing you along until she can find another man to take her away or until she gets the money/courage to move and you can rest assured she is going to blame all of this on you. Why not give her an excuse and just start dating a new woman. Life is too short to be caught up with this woman.
> 
> Sorry to be so blunt but I've been turning blue for the better part of 2 months every time I read through your threads and while i see glimpses of hope from some random posters, nobody really gives it to you like I feel you need to hear it. I hope I don't come across as an adversary, and maybe I'm projecting my own experiences into your situation. I just hate to see any man raked through the mud like this and It takes me back to my situation with my ex girlfriend and I remember how much I begged her to come back after numerous EAs and the blatant disrespect. Ill never allow it again, ill be single until I die before I let some woman treat me like that, and I'm only 31.
> 
> Remember people, the only "180" that works, is to drop these women the instant they get the audacity to have an affair.. there is no EA/PA... she gets involved with another man, shes gone.. the end. I don't care if it was a longtime sexual relationship, or they had a few "lunch dates". Once they decide they want to be romanced and beguiled by another man, GET RID OF THEM. If this happened every time a woman was disloyal, they would realize there are going to be serious consequences and they wouldn't "toe the line" as they have been doing in relationships. These modern woman have been given the freedom to continue this behavior and until men take a decisive stand, they will continue it.
> 
> Why is it that when the roles are reversed, women tell other women "GET RID OF THAT LOSER NOW!" but men say "just tell her she has to do her part to make this work, or else!!!" Why not drop the women like they drop men for this exact same behavior?


:iagree::iagree::iagree: Bravo!!! And that goes for the male Player as well!


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