# My wife is curious about other men



## jma8

My wife and I have been together for 20 years. We started a kid-relationship at 12 and we’ve stayed together since. My wife has only been with me. I’m her only relationship, only man she’s had sex with, only man she’s kissed, dated, etc. It’s not the same for me, which is entirely my fault. I have cheated on my wife, it was during our teenage years but cheating is cheating. I don’t think my wife would have stayed with me during that time if we didn’t have kids (we had our first child at 13 and second at 17) and if she had self-worth. I have been faithful to her for the last 13 years. We were doing very well from 2011-2016. My wife stopped bringing up my cheating, we were happy and getting along, things were going well for us. My wife finished university, I took over a family business, we built a house, we expanded our family. We both felt like we finally got to where we wanted to be and worked hard to get to. 

For the last year things have been a bit rocky. Our oldest is in university and decided to transfer and move across the country, it’s been hard on my wife. My other child (not with my wife) started university this fall and having to pay for that brought up things from the past. My wife has had a higher sex drive, she’s bought more toys lately, been using them more, I’ve seen porn use on her computer. Our sex life has increased (though we’ve always had a good sex life), but she has also started using toys before, during and or after which is new for her. She’s showing interest in other things that she previously hasn’t. She has started bringing up that I’ve been with far more people than she has, got to experience other people while she’s only been with me. A few times that has led to her saying that she wants to see other people. That she regrets letting the cheating “slip under the rug”, which I don’t think she did. That she regrets not seeing other people when I was. She is very hot and cold at times. She hasn’t cheated, nor do I think she would. She has brought up separation and divorce, but hasn’t followed through. Knowing her, I don’t think she’d actually ever go through with being with another man. She’s shy and quiet, she doesn’t even keep many friends. She gets quite a bit of attention from men, but always shys away from it. 

Could this just be a phase? Or is it something to be as worried about as I am? “Mid”life crisis come early (we’re 32)? 

Sorry, tried to keep it as short as I could. :|


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## Young at Heart

jma8 said:


> My wife and I have been together for 20 years. We started a kid-relationship at 12 and we’ve stayed together since. My wife has only been with me. .....
> 
> ....For the last year things have been a bit rocky.
> 
> ... My wife has had a higher sex drive, she’s bought more toys lately, been using them more, I’ve seen porn use on her computer. Our sex life has increased (though we’ve always had a good sex life), but she has also started using toys before, during and or after which is new for her. She’s showing interest in other things that she previously hasn’t. She has started bringing up that I’ve been with far more people than she has, got to experience other people while she’s only been with me. *A few times that has led to her saying that she wants to see other people. That she regrets letting the cheating “slip under the rug”, which I don’t think she did. That she regrets not seeing other people when I was.* She is very hot and cold at times. She hasn’t cheated, nor do I think she would. *She has brought up separation and divorce, but hasn’t followed through*.
> 
> ... *is it something to be as worried about as I am?* “Mid”life crisis come early (we’re 32)?
> 
> Sorry, tried to keep it as short as I could. :|


Yes, be very worried!

My advice is you need to sit her down after in your own mind you have established some boundaries otherwise you are on a slippery slope.

If it were me knowing my own boundaries I would have told her that her having sex with other men is a marriage killer and if she does you will not hesitate to immediately file for divorce. If you don't meant it then say what your real boundary is. But she needs you to tell her very explicitly what the boundaries are or your little rug sweep conversations might give her ideas that you have no boundaries. 

Good luck. If you don't have the guts for the conversation invest in marriage counseling and bring the topic up there.


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## VibrantWings

How old is your wife now? 32? 

The thinking of a lot of people over thirty changes at that time, I do believe. It's a landmark time. 
For women, it's our sexual peak. She thinks about sex more, wants sex more and probably has sex more. 

And yeah, I think you're right. Your child with another woman probably did bring up some dormant feelings. 

She had a baby when she was thirteen...pretty much her whole life, even before she became an adult, has been put on a back burner taking care of other people. 

Have you asked/talked to her about these things? I think you do need to be concerned about your wife's feeling/needs and wants. She stuck by you in your younger/wilder days so perhaps you owe her some consideration at this stage of her life.

Find out if there are some new things she would like to explore....with you. Take her on dates, go on a vacation together- just you and her. Your children are growing up. Your lives are different now. You can make it through the changes with her if you make it a priority.


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## ConanHub

Nope.


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## Ghost Rider

You really have no moral authority to demand her fidelity. Just my opinion.


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## xMadame

I would be curious about other men too. You were curious about other women and cheated on her when she was straddled at home as a kid with a kid and had a kid with someone else.

How many other women did you have sex with? And she swept it under the carpet and stayed with you.


Wow. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jma8

Young at Heart said:


> Yes, be very worried!
> 
> My advice is you need to sit her down after in your own mind you have established some boundaries otherwise you are on a slippery slope.
> 
> If it were me knowing my own boundaries I would have told her that her having sex with other men is a marriage killer and if she does you will not hesitate to immediately file for divorce. If you don't meant it then say what your real boundary is. But she needs you to tell her very explicitly what the boundaries are or your little rug sweep conversations might give her ideas that you have no boundaries.
> 
> Good luck. If you don't have the guts for the conversation invest in marriage counseling and bring the topic up there.


I have told her that I'm not going to be on board with her separating to have sex with other men, then getting back together. That's basically dejavu of our past. She knows I wouldn't give a free pass or open the marriage, those are both BS last strings to try and hang onto a marriage. She only brings up divorce or separation when we're fighting about our past, which is why I'm not sure if she really means it or not. I've said things I didn't mean while fighting, and somethings that I did mean but deny later. She has admitted to finding other men attractive and thinking about them, before she never mentioned that at all. I know everyone is attracted to other people, she just didn't ever mention it. 

I do like the idea of maybe reconsidering the idea of marriage counseling. We went about 10 years ago, my wife hated the person we saw, and we've never gone back.


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## jma8

VibrantWings said:


> How old is your wife now? 32?
> 
> The thinking of a lot of people over thirty changes at that time, I do believe. It's a landmark time.
> For women, it's our sexual peak. She thinks about sex more, wants sex more and probably has sex more.
> 
> And yeah, I think you're right. Your child with another woman probably did bring up some dormant feelings.
> 
> She had a baby when she was thirteen...pretty much her whole life, even before she became an adult, has been put on a back burner taking care of other people.
> 
> Have you asked/talked to her about these things? I think you do need to be concerned about your wife's feeling/needs and wants. She stuck by you in your younger/wilder days so perhaps you owe her some consideration at this stage of her life.
> 
> Find out if there are some new things she would like to explore....with you. Take her on dates, go on a vacation together- just you and her. Your children are growing up. Your lives are different now. You can make it through the changes with her if you make it a priority.


We are both 32, yes. 

She did become a parent at 13, so did I. That line frustrates me because every time I hear it is always the woman/girl became a mother at X age, years were ruined, had to grown up, etc. So did I. I do understand that she had to grow up very quickly, and handled it better than I did. 

I am fully willing to hear her out and try new things, between us. I'm not going to stand by if she goes and has sex with someone else to see what she is missing. She has mentioned some things that she wants to do, or I've seen her internet history, but for the most part it's not something that's going to happen. We do need to go on more dates together, that rarely happens. We haven't gone on a vacation together alone in years. Our oldest are 15 and 19, the oldest being out of the house. We do have younger kids, which make it harder to go on dates or a vacation. My wife also doesn't like leaving them. She has said that maybe next year we'll go on a vacation alone, when our youngest is 3.


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## jma8

ConanHub said:


> Nope.


Ok?? :scratchhead:


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## jma8

Ghost Rider said:


> You really have no moral authority to demand her fidelity. Just my opinion.


I made mistakes, I am fully aware and accepting of that. Just because one person does something wrong doesn't give the other person a free pass to do the same. We are married, we are committed to each other, we are adults. Fidelity is part of the package that she agreed to when we married, so did I and I have held up my end. My infidelity was before we married, which does NOT make it any better and I'm not saying it does. What I'm saying is, she was aware of it and accepting of it when we married and both agreed to remain faithful to each other.


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## jma8

xMadame said:


> I would be curious about other men too. You were curious about other women and cheated on her when she was straddled at home as a kid with a kid and had a kid with someone else.
> 
> How many other women did you have sex with? And she swept it under the carpet and stayed with you.
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The details of my cheating are not the reason that I posted here. I wasn't sure if I should even post that part at all, but I knew I wouldn't have helpful answers without the correct information. I also knew there would be someone to say something like this. 

It was not swept under the rug, though. To me that means she found out about it, dropped it and didn't bring it up again. Not true at all. Sure she stayed with me, but we didn't go right back to being happy and never fight about it.


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## lifeistooshort

You got someone else pregnant as a teenager?


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## jma8

lifeistooshort said:


> You got someone else pregnant as a teenager?


Yes.


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## Ghost Rider

jma8 said:


> I made mistakes, I am fully aware and accepting of that. Just because one person does something wrong doesn't give the other person a free pass to do the same. We are married, we are committed to each other, we are adults. Fidelity is part of the package that she agreed to when we married, so did I and I have held up my end. My infidelity was before we married, which does NOT make it any better and I'm not saying it does. What I'm saying is, she was aware of it and accepting of it when we married and both agreed to remain faithful to each other.


You have not held up your end, though. You have had a child with another woman. The expectation of fidelity was there before you got married, and you violated that. To say that getting married magically makes it different somehow, either in the sense that your faithfulness after marriage is all that counts, or her infidelity would somehow be worse than yours because you are married now, is incorrect.

I just think sitting your wife down to ***** her out about this, as another poster advised you to do, would require a giant pair, considering you're the one who slept around.

You should let her do what she wants. You might not like to hear that, but it's my opinion.


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## jma8

Ghost Rider said:


> You have not held up your end, though. You have had a child with another woman. The expectation of fidelity was there before you got married, and you violated that. To say that getting married magically makes it different somehow, either in the sense that your faithfulness after marriage is all that counts, or her infidelity would somehow be worse than yours because you are married now, is incorrect.
> 
> I just think sitting your wife down to ***** her out about this, as another poster advised you to do, would require a giant pair, considering you're the one who slept around.
> 
> You should let her do what she wants. You might not like to hear that, but it's my opinion.


There is a large difference in maturity between a 13-18 year old and a 32 year old. Cheating is wrong. I understand that and I have never said that my past is erased because we're married. Just because one partner cheats, doesn't mean the other gets to. And sure as hell not 13+ years later. She would be just as in the wrong as I was.


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## SunCMars

This...
This is what happens when a Philly grows into a Mare.

You need to step up and quick. 

All it will take is the right stallion to meet her eye at the most importune time in your marriage.
It will happen so fast it will make your head spin.

Don't tell us she is shy and passive. Those attributes are the perfect ingredients for infidelity.
Her active use of sex toys and likely porn use is probably saving the marriage.
She has an outlet for her sex drive. Soon she will get bored with this behavior. And look for real sex with real people.

Take manly control of your' marriage.


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## VibrantWings

jma8 said:


> We are both 32, yes.
> 
> She did become a parent at 13, so did I. That line frustrates me because every time I hear it is always the woman/girl became a mother at X age, years were ruined, had to grown up, etc. So did I. I do understand that she had to grow up very quickly, and handled it better than I did.
> 
> I am fully willing to hear her out and try new things, between us. I'm not going to stand by if she goes and has sex with someone else to see what she is missing. She has mentioned some things that she wants to do, or I've seen her internet history, but for the most part it's not something that's going to happen. We do need to go on more dates together, that rarely happens. We haven't gone on a vacation together alone in years. Our oldest are 15 and 19, the oldest being out of the house. We do have younger kids, which make it harder to go on dates or a vacation. My wife also doesn't like leaving them. She has said that maybe next year we'll go on a vacation alone, when our youngest is 3.


I'm not suggesting at all that she "be allowed to screw other men". I don't think that's a good answer/expectation in any marriage. However, I am glad to read that you are considering the dating/vacationing part with her.

I did pick up on the part that you were also 13- two babies having babies. I cannot imagine.
However the point still stands that even though you were much younger when you made your transgressions with another woman, she still forgave you/stood by you. That is a sign of real love for you, don't you think?

My main point is that she sounds like a keeper since you've both managed to weather it out this long through so many changes. This may be a "rough patch" in your marriage again...this time on her end. It won't help for you to disregard her feelings. You obviously have paid attention and know that something is happening so perhaps it's best to be open with this lady you've been with two thirds of your life so you can keep your relationship alive. Perhaps some type of affirmation and attention from you will help her through her feelings about your child with someone else. 

I commend both of you for managing to stay together for so long through so much at such young ages. Good luck to you both.


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## FieryHairedLady

WoW, tough spot to be in. 


She may be testing you and what she may really want is a good heart to heart talk. A sincere deep down apoligy may be what she needs to hear. 

Sounds like you need to work at rekindling the love life with her and fast! 

Hire a sitter

Romance her

Woo her

Let her know you were sorry for how very foolish you were in the past, etc, etc, etc


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## WilliamM

I know you don't like it, but she is still upset about your affair. You guys never settled that. It was rug swept.

As for my own, yes, I figured when my wife let a friend seduce her it did give me a free pass any time after that. We are children of the sixties, so we got wild and crazy, but the fact is I did have sex with other women, and it was her affair that got that started. If she had not slipped up we probably would have slipped off the monogamy wagon anyway, but who knows.

I do know her affair drove me pretty crazy until after I had sex with another woman, sort of a revenge thing.

There were other issues, too. But that did happen.

Personally I think your affair is still eating at your wife's soul, and she is twisting in the wind.


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## jma8

SunCMars said:


> This...
> This is what happens when a Philly grows into a Mare.
> 
> You need to step up and quick.
> 
> All it will take is the right stallion to meet her eye at the most importune time in your marriage.
> It will happen so fast it will make your head spin.
> 
> Don't tell us she is shy and passive. Those attributes are the perfect ingredients for infidelity.
> Her active use of sex toys and likely porn use is probably saving the marriage.
> She has an outlet for her sex drive. Soon she will get bored with this behavior. And look for real sex with real people.
> 
> Take manly control of your' marriage.


Can you explain how being shy and passive are perfect contributes for an affair? I don't see that at all.


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## jma8

WilliamM said:


> I know you don't like it, but she is still upset about your affair. You guys never settled that. It was rug swept.
> 
> As for my own, yes, I figured when my wife let a friend seduce her it did give me a free pass any time after that. We are children of the sixties, so we got wild and crazy, but the fact is I did have sex with other women, and it was her affair that got that started. If she had not slipped up we probably would have slipped off the monogamy wagon anyway, but who knows.
> 
> I do know her affair drove me pretty crazy until after I had sex with another woman, sort of a revenge thing.
> 
> There were other issues, too. But that did happen.
> 
> Personally I think your affair is still eating at your wife's soul, and she is twisting in the wind.


We have settled it, though. It wasn't swept under the rug. I don't know how else to say that. It's not like she found out about the cheating and just dropped it. It caused YEARS of problems. We were in our mid-20's before it stopped being an issue. The cheating stopped when we were 18-19. So about 6 years of it being an issue and NOT swept under the rug in the slightest. 

She is upset about the past. I understand that and why she is upset. That isn't an excuse to cheat, at all. I'm going to sound like a douche here, but it also shouldn't be something that effects months and months of our lives. At some point we have to move on from it, and I thought we had. 

I do not want a divorce, not in the slightest. We have been through far worse together than her being curious about other men - as long as that is as far as it goes. Is the general consensus on this site actually that if one person cheats the other is entitled to cheat as well, whenever they want, with nothing wrong with it?


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## jma8

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> WoW, tough spot to be in.
> 
> She may be testing you and what she may really want is a good heart to heart talk. A sincere deep down apoligy may be what she needs to hear.
> 
> Sounds like you need to work at rekindling the love life with her and fast!
> 
> Hire a sitter
> 
> Romance her
> 
> Woo her
> 
> Let her know you were sorry for how very foolish you were in the past, etc, etc, etc


Something that we have both thought and talked about is feeling like we're in a "now what" stage. We have always been working towards something, trying to get through high school, trying to get through college, trying to get on our feet, paying off debt, building a house, expanding our family. Now we're out of all of those stages. We worked very hard to get where we are today. Now that we got there we don't know where to go. 

We do need to bring the romance back, she doesn't have a whole lot of interest in it though. We were doing good, until issues came up with my other child and the past came back to bite us in the ass. The sexual intimacy is still there, but not emotional. She has admitted in the past that (at least) part of the reason we have always kept having sex regularly even when she hated me was to try and stop me from cheating more/again. Like I'd be sexually fulfilled and wouldn't need anyone else. 

I have apologized to her many times, it doesn't feel like something that I should keep bringing up. I do need to try and get the romance back on track. It's hard when she doesn't accept it or reciprocate it, but I do need to get over that and keep trying.


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## ConanHub

I am seriously having a problem with two 12 year olds having sex and the girl getting pregnant, having the baby at 13 and what else?????

Where the hell did this take place?

Who raised the kid? They kept having sex and had another at age 17?

What cult were you a part of and in what secluded location?

Very young girls giving birth in hospitals tends to leave a paper trail as well as get attention from authorities.


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## jma8

VibrantWings said:


> I'm not suggesting at all that she "be allowed to screw other men". I don't think that's a good answer/expectation in any marriage. However, I am glad to read that you are considering the dating/vacationing part with her.
> 
> I did pick up on the part that you were also 13- two babies having babies. I cannot imagine.
> However the point still stands that even though you were much younger when you made your transgressions with another woman, she still forgave you/stood by you. That is a sign of real love for you, don't you think?
> 
> My main point is that she sounds like a keeper since you've both managed to weather it out this long through so many changes. This may be a "rough patch" in your marriage again...this time on her end. It won't help for you to disregard her feelings. You obviously have paid attention and know that something is happening so perhaps it's best to be open with this lady you've been with two thirds of your life so you can keep your relationship alive. Perhaps some type of affirmation and attention from you will help her through her feelings about your child with someone else.
> 
> I commend both of you for managing to stay together for so long through so much at such young ages. Good luck to you both.


To be quite frank, in our teenager years she didn't stay with me out of love. I read her conversations at one point and she said to a friend that she should have left me the first time I cheated on her. When she agreed to get back together with me, she didn't actually want to. That was 19 years ago so how true that is I don't know. I do know that she was going to end things when we were 16, but my father passed away and that stopped her from breaking up with me. 

She was raised by her aunt and uncle in a very strict and religious house. Literally told that if she had sex before marriage no other man would ever want her, nor would the man she had sex with because she would be a **** (and some don't by the cow if the milk is free analogy). When she had our daughter the same was still told, that she better stay with me because no other man would ever want her. Combine that with "daddy problems" and a dead mom. In high school she didn't have much attention from other men, for obvious reason, I think if she had things may have turned out differently. A lot of it is things that she didn't tell me until we were in our 20's. 

I love my wife, and through our 20's things got much better and I wouldn't hesitate to say that she loved me as well. This past year has been though, but throwing in the towel isn't even a consideration. I have been with her for 20 years. I can barely remember a time when she wasn't in my life, I don't want to. Around the time we both hit 25 we both matured and felt like we could move on from the past. I don't think that she stayed out of love, now I think she does, but back then - no. 

You are right that I shouldn't disregard her feelings, regardless of my opinion on them. That is something that I need to remember. We went through the same situations, but on two very different sides and very different experiences. So she's thinking about other men and curious about different things, I should be able to tell her that's okay and see what we can do together to get through it.


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## jma8

ConanHub said:


> I am seriously having a problem with two 12 year olds having sex and the girl getting pregnant, having the baby at 13 and what else?????
> 
> Where the hell did this take place?
> 
> Who raised the kid? They kept having sex and had another at age 17?
> 
> What cult were you a part of and in what secluded location?
> 
> Very young girls giving birth in hospitals tends to leave a paper trail as well as get attention from authorities.


I'm not saying it was a good decision, nor something I would recommend. When our oldest both reached their pre-teens and teens, I couldn't even imagine them having sex. They were babies. There was definitely a what the **** was I/were we thinking moment. We didn't use condoms, I can't recall why but I remember it not being on my mind at all, probably because we were babies. I don't even remember if we had sex ed at that point, I don't think we did. Authorities, however, were never involved. Social workers, yes, but police no. We were the same age.


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## ConanHub

lifeistooshort said:


> You got someone else pregnant as a teenager?


They were two 12 year olds having sex, got her pregnant and she delivered at 13. They kept having sex and she delivered again at 17.

I'm very interested in where they grew up.

Sounds like warpedville.


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## jma8

ConanHub said:


> They were two 12 year olds having sex, got her pregnant and she delivered at 13. They kept having sex and she delivered again at 17.
> 
> I'm very interested in where they grew up.
> 
> Sounds like warpedville.


We both grew up in Toronto. Not some backwoods cult like you are suggesting. Thanks.


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## ConanHub

jma8 said:


> We both grew up in Toronto. Not some backwoods cult like you are suggesting. Thanks.


I call bvllshyt. Your parents would have been investigated and under scrutiny. Them allowing a couple of children to continue having sex after the trauma of a 13 year old girl having a baby is ludicrous.


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## lifeistooshort

ConanHub said:


> They were two 12 year olds having sex, got her pregnant and she delivered at 13. They kept having sex and she delivered again at 17.
> 
> I'm very interested in where they grew up.
> 
> Sounds like warpedville.


He mentioned having a kid by someone else that just started college.


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## jma8

ConanHub said:


> I call bvllshyt. Your parents would have been investigated and under scrutiny. Them allowing a couple of children to continue having sex after the trauma of a 13 year old girl having a baby is ludicrous.


Do you really think my dad gave me a high five and my mom a pat on the back, and gave us the go ahead to keep on having sex? My mom was galavanting off with her new husband and was barely around. My dad was a drunk who drank himself to death before our second was born.


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## jma8

lifeistooshort said:


> He mentioned having a kid by someone else that just started college.
> 
> I'm confused.


I have a 19 year old and 15 year old with my wife, we have younger kids as well. I have an 18 year old with another woman. I'm trying to stick to the point of me coming here...


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## manfromlamancha

Is it just me or is no one else surprised that the two of you were sleeping together at 12 years old!!!!!!

What kind of families did you come from ? There in starts the problem. Having multiple partners in your late teens and early 20's is normal - its called dating. She should have been too. Having children at 12 and 13 is not normal. You should have been institutionalised and the kid put into care!

So allowing her to sleep with someone else now would be no more bizarre than what you have been doing so far. There is nothing normal about your "marriage" - if I was her father, you would be crippled at the very least.

And what about school and learning etc. Did you both receive at the very least, a high school education. Not sure how you went on to succeed in life. Not to mention how you acquired any social skills at all.

I cannot believe that we are giving you advice on how to hold this marriage together instead of turning yourself in to the authorities so to speak. I am assuming the authorities did not know what you were up to else social services would have dealt with you and your child.


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## ConanHub

Ok. Just checked and this unbelievable practice of supporting children who are having sex and babies at age 11, 12 and 13 is going on in England.

While this is beyond moronic, it is not the children's fault that their parents and the authorities are so brain dead.

This post, unfortunately, is entirely possible.

I will now focus on your question young man. Your story sounds fantastic so I appreciate your forbearance. I'm not impressed with your parents or other adults who you found yourself entrusted to.


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## lifeistooshort

jma8 said:


> I have a 19 year old and 15 year old with my wife, we have younger kids as well. I have an 18 year old with another woman. I'm trying to stick to the point of me coming here...


Understanding your back story is important in order to give good advice, as it's helpful in understanding the dynamic between the two of you. 

I've been faithful and my wife wants to **** other men is much different from I screwed around and got someone else pregnant but now that I'm ready for faithfulness my wife has nerve to be thinking about ****ing other men. 

Fwiw I don't think anything good would come of her screwing other men while married, it's just that you're in a very weak moral position.

Have you guys seen a marriage counselor?


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## jma8

lifeistooshort said:


> Understanding your back story is important in order to give good advice, as it's helpful in understanding the dynamic between the two of you.
> 
> I've been faithful and my wife wants to **** other men is much different from I screwed around and got someone else pregnant but now that I'm ready for faithfulness my wife has nerve to be thinking about ****ing other men.
> 
> Fwiw I don't think anything good would come of her screwing other men while married, it's just that you're in a very weak moral position.
> 
> Have you guys seen a marriage counselor?


We haven't seen a marriage counselor in about 10 years. We went for a short while, I want to say 2-3 months, and stopped because my wife didn't like who we were seeing and felt like he was siding with me. We haven't gone back since and she has no desire to. She was seeing a counselor on her own around the same time, who she said told her to "get over" it. So in a nutshell, she doesn't trust them. When I've suggested going back it's caused instantaneous fights because she thinks I want to get someone on my side again. 

I do understand that the full story is needed to have helpful advice. It's not something that I'm proud of and I don't like going over and over it. I'd love to forget it and erase it, I know that won't happen. I don't enjoy being told that I don't have any ground to request a faithful wife, or that my wife go bang the whole city because hey, I cheated first. It seems petty and immature. I did cheat on her. I know that. I regret that. I hate myself for that. I'm disgusted with myself for that. I know she deserved better. I don't need to hear that I should be dolling her up for a night out on the town and have breakfast waiting for her the next morning.


----------



## jma8

manfromlamancha said:


> Is it just me or is no one else surprised that the two of you were sleeping together at 12 years old!!!!!!
> 
> What kind of families did you come from ? There in starts the problem. Having multiple partners in your late teens and early 20's is normal - its called dating. She should have been too. Having children at 12 and 13 is not normal. You should have been institutionalised and the kid put into care!
> 
> So allowing her to sleep with someone else now would be no more bizarre than what you have been doing so far. There is nothing normal about your "marriage" - if I was her father, you would be crippled at the very least.
> 
> And what about school and learning etc. Did you both receive at the very least, a high school education. Not sure how you went on to succeed in life. Not to mention how you acquired any social skills at all.
> 
> I cannot believe that we are giving you advice on how to hold this marriage together instead of turning yourself in to the authorities so to speak. I am assuming the authorities did not know what you were up to else social services would have dealt with you and your child.


I wanted to ignore this post. It pissed me off tremendously. 

The point of me coming here and writing this wasn't supposed to focus on my past and try to rip me a new one. I am trying to focus on the present. I am well aware that the past between my wife and I was unideal. Yes, we had our daughter at 13. Yes, we had A LOT of help. My wife finished high school on time. She had a lot of help and people in her court at our school to get her there. She started university at 22, later than our peers but she went and finished. I didn't finish school, I lucked out with my uncle owning a construction business which is now mine. I was kicked out of high school, my wife wasn't. My wife was handed a path to graduate, I wasn't I was sent to a school for troubled youth. Saying that our daughter should have been removed from us and put into the system pisses me off beyond belief. Was she born into an ideal situation? Hell no. Was she well cared for, loved and turned out happy and healthy? Yes. 

My parents split up around the time I met my wife. My mom ran off with another man and my dad found the solution to his problems at the bottom of a bottle. He got into cocaine, lost his job and drank himself to death when I was 16. Pulling the plug on your dad at 16 is a great ****ing time. Finding your dad dead on the floor and doing CPR via instructions from the paramedic dispatcher is great. He died from hitting his ****ing knee on the coffee table while drunk, got infected, couldn't afford medicine, went into septic shock, went into a coma and was brain dead. My mother was just glad that he was gone, and stayed with her shiny, new husband. My uncle came to live with me and my younger siblings, but he worked a lot and was rarely around. My siblings and I basically lived alone in my dad's house. When my mom tried to sell the house to get a paycheck I trashed the ****ing things so she wouldn't bother. My wife, on the other hand, was raised by her paternal aunt and uncle after her father emotionally, physically, financially, sexually, abused her mom until she dumped my wife with her parents and killed herself. Leaving my wife with the same nutjobs. Her dad is a career criminal. Her maternal grandparents, paternal grandparents and paternal aunt and uncle fought custody battles for 3 years until she was placed with her aunt and uncle. Who were very strict and religious nut jobs. They abused her and broke her down. When she got pregnant the first time they told her that she was a *****, ****, that she'd never find a man who wanted her, that she was a disgrace. They wanted to move and take her and my daughter away. When reality set in on what was happening, they gave up custody to my wife's maternal grandparents. They happily took her and our daughter in. I am grateful for the amount of help they gave us. However, they did nothing but tear her down just like they did her mother. I had no boundaries. No one cared. I had no problem getting alone time. It was harder for my wife but clearly we made it happen, it's not impossible. The hows are not important. What is important is that I love my ****ing daughter and she has always been loved and cared for. Many kids do need to go into the system, she was not one of them. We worked hard as hell to get where we are today and to separate ourselves from our pasts. Go **** yourself.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Look man, you guys have been through a ton together. I would just sit her down and talk all of this out while listening to her. Just really keep an open mind and listen to what she is telling you. You don't have to allow anything or get offended by anything. Just sit down and discuss everything all over again and keep your tempers in check if that is ever an issue. Be understanding of her desires and find a solution that works for both of you. 

There was another post on here a day or two ago about role playing. Where the wife wanted to be approached at a bar by her husband as if they had never met. Maybe have a suggestion like that or some other suggestion in mind when coming to the table to discuss all of this. Same with clear boundaries, discuss those again at this time.

I know another couple who really get off on the wife being hit on by other men. She never does anything other than harmless flirting, but they both, especially the husband, get turned on by this flirting. So basically some guy buys her a drink and gets all into her, she strings them along before politely declining the offer then she goes home with her husband who just watched the entire interaction and they blow each others minds in the sack. 

I'm not saying either of these things would work for you two. Just saying you can find a place that works for both of you in solving this problem together. Stop fighting about it and discuss a solution that works for both of you.


----------



## Tiggy!

jma8 said:


> She is upset about the past. I understand that and why she is upset. That isn't an excuse to cheat, at all. *I'm going to sound like a douche here, but it also shouldn't be something that effects months and months of our lives. At some point we have to move on from it, and I thought we had. *


It doesn't sound like you would have this view if she cheated.

I'm not sure many people would ever properly move on from their partner having kid outside of the relationship.


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## Rhubarb

jma8 said:


> There is a large difference in maturity between a 13-18 year old and a 32 year old. Cheating is wrong. I understand that and I have never said that my past is erased because we're married. Just because one partner cheats, doesn't mean the other gets to. And sure as hell not 13+ years later. She would be just as in the wrong as I was.


While that's true there's nothing that says she can't change her mind about your past cheating and divorce you. At this point if I were you I would sit her down and give her that option. Explain you are really sorry about what happened. Take full responsibility for everything. Show a lot of contrition and tell her she is within her right to divorce you. However you love her and want to stay with her, but you can't do it if she's going to sleep with other men. Tell her you would rather divorce her now than have you her cheat on you or open your marriage (I'm assuming that's how you feel) .


----------



## manfromlamancha

jma8 said:


> I wanted to ignore this post. It pissed me off tremendously.
> 
> The point of me coming here and writing this wasn't supposed to focus on my past and try to rip me a new one. I am trying to focus on the present. I am well aware that the past between my wife and I was unideal. Yes, we had our daughter at 13. Yes, we had A LOT of help. My wife finished high school on time. She had a lot of help and people in her court at our school to get her there. She started university at 22, later than our peers but she went and finished. I didn't finish school, I lucked out with my uncle owning a construction business which is now mine. I was kicked out of high school, my wife wasn't. My wife was handed a path to graduate, I wasn't I was sent to a school for troubled youth. Saying that our daughter should have been removed from us and put into the system pisses me off beyond belief. Was she born into an ideal situation? Hell no. Was she well cared for, loved and turned out happy and healthy? Yes.
> 
> My parents split up around the time I met my wife. My mom ran off with another man and my dad found the solution to his problems at the bottom of a bottle. He got into cocaine, lost his job and drank himself to death when I was 16. Pulling the plug on your dad at 16 is a great ****ing time. Finding your dad dead on the floor and doing CPR via instructions from the paramedic dispatcher is great. He died from hitting his ****ing knee on the coffee table while drunk, got infected, couldn't afford medicine, went into septic shock, went into a coma and was brain dead. My mother was just glad that he was gone, and stayed with her shiny, new husband. My uncle came to live with me and my younger siblings, but he worked a lot and was rarely around. My siblings and I basically lived alone in my dad's house. When my mom tried to sell the house to get a paycheck I trashed the ****ing things so she wouldn't bother. My wife, on the other hand, was raised by her paternal aunt and uncle after her father emotionally, physically, financially, sexually, abused her mom until she dumped my wife with her parents and killed herself. Leaving my wife with the same nutjobs. Her dad is a career criminal. Her maternal grandparents, paternal grandparents and paternal aunt and uncle fought custody battles for 3 years until she was placed with her aunt and uncle. Who were very strict and religious nut jobs. They abused her and broke her down. When she got pregnant the first time they told her that she was a *****, ****, that she'd never find a man who wanted her, that she was a disgrace. They wanted to move and take her and my daughter away. When reality set in on what was happening, they gave up custody to my wife's maternal grandparents. They happily took her and our daughter in. I am grateful for the amount of help they gave us. However, they did nothing but tear her down just like they did her mother. I had no boundaries. No one cared. I had no problem getting alone time. It was harder for my wife but clearly we made it happen, it's not impossible. The hows are not important. What is important is that I love my ****ing daughter and she has always been loved and cared for. Many kids do need to go into the system, she was not one of them. We worked hard as hell to get where we are today and to separate ourselves from our pasts. Go **** yourself.


Harold Robbins just moved under a bridge! OK I'm out.


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## Laurentium

jma8 said:


> The point of me coming here and writing this wasn't supposed to focus on my past
> ...
> My parents split up around the time I met my wife. My mom ran off with another man and my dad found the solution to his problems at the bottom of a bottle......


First, I have to say that you have done an incredible job. Your children have had a much better start in life than you had. To me, in what you write here, you come across as still sane, despite everything you have been through. I feel I should congratulate you, despite your past transgressions. 

And second, I have to say, I think it would be a bad idea for your wife to explore other men. 



jma8 said:


> Is the general consensus on this site actually that if one person cheats the other is entitled to cheat as well, whenever they want, with nothing wrong with it?


No - but as you can probably see, there is not usually a "general consensus" on this site - don't assume we all think the same!



jma8 said:


> Something that we have both thought and talked about is feeling like we're in a "now what" stage. We have always been working towards something, trying to get through high school, trying to get through college, trying to get on our feet, paying off debt, building a house, expanding our family. Now we're out of all of those stages. We worked very hard to get where we are today. Now that we got there we don't know where to go.


Actually I suspect that is a very significant part of the problem. You've always been in a battlefield all your lives. Now the smoke is clearing, you (both of you) are not sure what you're supposed to be doing. This ought to be the good bit. Please talk to each other.


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## VibrantWings

For what it's worth, jma8, I personally always assume it's a lack of parenting when I hear about children getting pregnant. I did also catch the part that your child with another woman is going to University. You kept that child in your lives and he/she seems to be doing great. Sorry that you must probably feel "attacked" but you have handled it well considering...
Despite the hardship, dysfunction and crazy family members you both managed to be mature enough to love and keep all the kids. 

I admire that part of your story.

Your three year old is going to have a much different life/perspective than the rest of your children. He/she probably has a lot of "parents" in the form of older siblings. My oldest daughter is ten years older than my twins. Built in "second mom" dynamic. 

As pointed out already, you and your wife have "me" time now. You get to do normal things like normal adults. Something you haven't known. In your thirties together...you have the rest of your lives to explore. I feel hopeful and happy for you both


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## SunCMars

jma8 said:


> Can you explain how being shy and passive are perfect contributes for an affair? I don't see that at all.


She is vulnerable.
And she is curious [better said, ready]. Her own words.

All it will take is the right man. The right man for her.

I hope this does not happen, by the way.


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## SunCMars

This story, if true, shows that there are people out there who struggle against great odds.
In the end, you communicated this well.

Good luck.
Whatever good fortune you have have earned to date, has been accomplished by the both of you overcoming these same great odds.

Keep a good grip on your wife. She has graduated University, likely runs with a better crowd now. You need polish your worth to equal hers.
You can win the whole world and still lose a good women to boredom, to complacency. 

Lose her due to her maturing, you not doing so. This sounds more like Rue, her missing growing up, not experiencing dating and being coy. Romanticism is eating at her.
Watch out for any friends she may have that may influence her against her present situation. Prejudice her against her marriage.

Mass media hurts conventional living and marriage.

Lilith for SCM


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## SunCMars

A side note here..

There are 'other' dynamics in play here.

Those forces that created you and her, your environment and your life stories is an ominous force in the background.

And, it never goes away. You just need to be aware that whatever accomplishments that you have achieved, the King of the Sea, Neptune can manipulate them away.
I suspect this is the case with your wife.

Bohemian thoughts and realities are not new to your fate. 
They are ironed into the cloth of [both] of your forms, your past, present and future. 
Know this, and do not succumb to this, these tendencies.
They are after your dear wife. Know this.
They lurk, work in cycles, periods.

This be truth...period.

SCM.... himself.


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## arbitrator

*You abandoned the relationship when you arbitrarily elected to go behind her back with other women to cheat on her!

So who would you suggest is at fault here? Her? You broke the marriage vows ~ not her!

IMHO, she has every right in the world to continue to be pi$$ed off at what you did to her; and not at what she did to you in her reactionary mode! *


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## Nucking Futs

arbitrator said:


> *You abandoned the relationship when you arbitrarily elected to go behind her back with other women to cheat on her!
> 
> So who would you suggest is at fault here? Her? You broke the marriage vows ~ not her!
> 
> IMHO, she has every right in the world to continue to be pi$$ed off at what you did to her; and not at what she did to you in her reactionary mode! *


No. He was 14 years old when he cheated on her and got another girl pregnant. He did abandon the relationship, but the relationship recovered and the marriage vows came after that. No cheating since marriage, the vows are not broken. If she cheats now, she will be the one to break the marriage vows.


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## wmn1

she forgave you and moved on and had a family with you. You have been loyal for 13 years. 

Your previous infidelities did not give her a free check to cash later in life when she decided that it was time for her to slip up.

In other words, she forgave and can't hold your previous infidelity against you in order to cheat now. If she has a lack of trust or is still hurting, that is one thing but it doesn't give her afree ride on the c*** carousel at this stage of your lives.

So

1) yes I would worry
2) You do have the moral authority to demand that she doesn't cheat
3) You need to monitor her and if she crosses that line, you have a very significant decision to make.

Those who say it's ok for her to cheat are way off base IMO

Cheating is never good or right or fair. You did it when immature and acknowledge your wrongs. Now that you two got married, built a life together and you corrected yourself and have been loyal and now that she has forgiven you, her cheating would be unacceptable and if she goes down that road, I would dump her.

Now is not the time and forum for her to start cheating

I agree with Nucking on this


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## Edmund

Just to clarify, I think cheating is when a married person has an extramarital affair, either EA or PA, and the spouse either knows about it and has forbidden it, or doesn't know about it (cheater kept it secret). If the spouse consents or approves of the extramarital affair, it isn't cheating.



If OP retains his rigid view (in view of his own activities as a teen and the fallout therefrom) on wife's curiosity / desire for exploration, she will probably cheat on him sooner or later. It would be a shame because for a marriage to survive as long as they have, with such a horrendous family background, and through so many really bad decisions, they must have a strong bond to each other.


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## wmn1

Do not let her explore !!!!!

That is called open marriage and it will be the death of your marriage since so few survive it.

If she demands that route, then divorce.

If she demands this, then you went out and lined up babe after babe (single ones that is) and go to town on them, what will she say then ? 

Besides, it is easier for women to pick up guys than the other way around. You are starting with 2 outs and a 0-2 count.

Never join the open marriage club


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## manfromlamancha

OP, you write very eloquently for someone that did not finish school. Did you take writing classes or anything ? Also how did the two of you know what sex was at 12 years old and what cheating was at 14 ?


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## Rhubarb

Edmund said:


> So my advice is to consider allowing her some freedom to explore, within mutually agreed upon limits. The age you are, is when women are more active sexually but it will eventually pass, and you may still be together in your old age.


I'd say that's bad advice for most people out there. There are successfully open marriages but from what I hear there are way more disasters. Yes I know he cheated first but at this point he's trying to stay married and what you are advising will most likely do more harm than good.


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## Edmund

Rhubarb said:


> I'd say that's bad advice for most people out there. There are successfully open marriages but from what I hear there are way more disasters. Yes I know he cheated first but at this point he's trying to stay married and what you are advising will most likely do more harm than good.



To clarify, I was not suggesting open marriage. There are many degrees of exploration not involving cheating, or even extramarital sex. He mentions her browser history but doesn't indicate what she is looking for. How about a sexy but monogamous vacation in Cancun or Jamaica?

I just think she may resent that she stayed with him through his mistakes and now when she is aware of the biological clock ticking he is just shutting her down... No absolutely not.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Windwalker

OP, Im going to be in the minority on this one. I agree with Nucking and wmn1 on this one.

You are right, the two of you have went through the a lot of ****. Now, that doesn't mean that life has been easy in the present or that all is sunshine and rainbows. It just doesn't work that way. Life does get easier and sometime you do find yourself in a "What now" moment. It happens to a lot of couples.

You did cheat and you admitted to the betrayal. You also had a child with the affair partner. That is a lot of crap to have to deal with and there is no doubt that it eats at both of you. But she still married you and knew the score before the marriage. The only thing I can tell you is to sit her down and tell her that you are extremely sorry for all the pain you have caused over the years and that you own your **** and acknowledge that you have not always been the best partner, but are 100% devoted to the marriage and are willing to do whatever is needed to help her through the issues she is having, but to step outside of the marriage is a path to far. There is just absolutely NO JUSTIFICATION FOR CHEATING!

I had an EA 15 years ago and still kick my own ass every single day all these years later. I had the chance to take it physical. The thought made me sick every time. I was extremely disgusting individual, but I never physically cheated on her. The thought of her cheating makes me violently ill and nauseous. The though of her doing that make her repulsive to me. There is no doubt I would immediately divorce and completely wipe her from my life forever. No, I don't have the moral high ground to exspect her fidelity. Call me a hypocrite all you want. That's just how it is. I would not get over it. That's just me.

You have to make your boundaries and enforce them where you feel it is necessary. Say you do let her have a free pass, would you even be able to be in her presence without being disgusted with her?

Tell her straight up, you cheat and I'm done if that's what you need to do. I don't envy your position. I do truly hope it all works out for you, but it honestly doesn't sound good.

For all the other folks making a big deal about these kids having kids. Do you think it still doesn't happen today? You go into any big city and you will find the same crap play out every single day. Hell, a 100 years ago, kids were married off at the age of 13. Times change, but they don't change that much. I don't get the moral outrage over something that has happened hundreds of thousands of times. Yes, it's a ****ty way to start out life, but it happens.


----------



## wmn1

Windwalker said:


> OP, Im going to be in the minority on this one. I agree with Nucking and wmn1 on this one.
> 
> You are right, the two of you have went through the a lot of ****. Now, that doesn't mean that life has been easy in the present or that all is sunshine and rainbows. It just doesn't work that way. Life does get easier and sometime you do find yourself in a "What now" moment. It happens to a lot of couples.
> 
> You did cheat and you admitted to the betrayal. You also had a child with the affair partner. That is a lot of crap to have to deal with and there is no doubt that it eats at both of you. But she still married you and knew the score before the marriage. The only thing I can tell you is to sit her down and tell her that you are extremely sorry for all the pain you have caused over the years and that you own your **** and acknowledge that you have not always been the best partner, but are 100% devoted to the marriage and are willing to do whatever is needed to help her through the issues she is having, but to step outside of the marriage is a path to far. There is just absolutely NO JUSTIFICATION FOR CHEATING!
> 
> I had an EA 15 years ago and still kick my own ass every single day all these years later. I had the chance to take it physical. The thought made me sick every time. I was extremely disgusting individual, but I never physically cheated on her. The thought of her cheating makes me violently ill and nauseous. The though of her doing that make her repulsive to me. There is no doubt I would immediately divorce and completely wipe her from my life forever. No, I don't have the moral high ground to exspect her fidelity. Call me a hypocrite all you want. That's just how it is. I would not get over it. That's just me.
> 
> You have to make your boundaries and enforce them where you feel it is necessary. Say you do let her have a free pass, would you even be able to be in her presence without being disgusted with her?
> 
> Tell her straight up, you cheat and I'm done if that's what you need to do. I don't envy your position. I do truly hope it all works out for you, but it honestly doesn't sound good.
> 
> For all the other folks making a big deal about these kids having kids. Do you think it still doesn't happen today? You go into any big city and you will find the same crap play out every single day. Hell, a 100 years ago, kids were married off at the age of 13. Times change, but they don't change that much. I don't get the moral outrage over something that has happened hundreds of thousands of times. Yes, it's a ****ty way to start out life, but it happens.



very well said, Windwalker. Agreed completely


----------



## ReturntoZero

Talk less - do more.

It's likely her attraction to you is waning, so improve yourself.

Here's some threads you can read that summarizes all of this rather nicely:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-better-man-better-partner.html


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## ConanHub

jma8 said:


> We haven't seen a marriage counselor in about 10 years. We went for a short while, I want to say 2-3 months, and stopped because my wife didn't like who we were seeing and felt like he was siding with me. We haven't gone back since and she has no desire to. She was seeing a counselor on her own around the same time, who she said told her to "get over" it. So in a nutshell, she doesn't trust them. When I've suggested going back it's caused instantaneous fights because she thinks I want to get someone on my side again.
> 
> I do understand that the full story is needed to have helpful advice. It's not something that I'm proud of and I don't like going over and over it. I'd love to forget it and erase it, I know that won't happen. I don't enjoy being told that I don't have any ground to request a faithful wife, or that my wife go bang the whole city because hey, I cheated first. It seems petty and immature. I did cheat on her. I know that. I regret that. I hate myself for that. I'm disgusted with myself for that. I know she deserved better. I don't need to hear that I should be dolling her up for a night out on the town and have breakfast waiting for her the next morning.


Ok. Please forgive me for my earlier incredulous posts.

You and your wife are remarkable and your situation is very different from the norm.

While your cheating was bad, your situation was hardly comparable to what mature adults go through.

Please keep posting and everyone else, PLEASE CUT THIS GUY A LITTLE SLACK!!!!

If true, and it is definitely probable, these are some remarkable people who have overcome extreme adversity and are not from any normative background.


----------



## jma8

To those who have suggested an open marriage, that is not an option that I’m willing to consider. Our vows are no less valid just because I cheated. And no, I never broke our vows. Having been down the cheating road before, an open marriage is not somewhere I’m willing to go. I know the havoc it can do on a relationship. It does not matter than I cheated, my wife doesn’t get to go **** someone else. End of story. 

I do understand the suggestions about finding other ideas to curb her curiosity. She would be quite unhappy and hurt if I flirted with other women, that goes both ways. There is no point in flirting unless you want to take it further. She has never been into role play, which I think is due to her being shy and unconfident. I will admit that I do get defensive when she starts talking about her curiosity and we always end in a fight. Like some opinions here, she thinks it is a bit hypocritical for me to put my foot down so hard. I do understand what is being said, though, and I am open to considering monogamous ideas. 

I have seen other men try to flirt with my wife and she either ends it immediately or ignores them, or I step in as soon as someone approaches her. We don’t go to bars often, but occasionally with friends. Even if I was willing to sit by and watch (and I don’t know that I would be) I can’t see her going along with it. Telling her that it’s not worth it isn’t a solution, nor one she likes hearing from me. The romance has died nicely, that could play a role as well in her thinking about other men and probably the first place to start. 

It is true that at any point my wife could change her mind about my past, decide she isn’t ok with it and end our marriage. It isn’t something that I’ve really thought about, because I thought we were past that point. I see now that we’re really not. It may always be something that hangs over us, which I don’t want to hear. 

I haven’t wanted to apologize to her for our past because I don’t want to keep bringing it up and thought we had moved past that. I see that I’m probably wrong there and maybe it’s something that she needs to hear again. Some good points were said about that. 

I love my wife. I appreciate her and I am thankful to her every day for sticking by me when I was at my worst, regardless of her reasoning. She has always been a far better and far stronger person than myself. Without her I don’t know where I would be in life, or if I’d even be here. She has always been there for me, with things in our relationship and outside of it. We have been through ups, and a lot of downs together, and I love her more because of it. We have always come out stronger. We are at a place now that we never thought we would be and I need to stand by her the way she has me and put more effort into understanding where she is coming form. I’m not willing to lose her over something that doesn’t even compare to other things we’ve gone through. Right now it's just curiosity, if that's as far as it goes we'll be ok.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Windwalker said:


> OP, Im going to be in the minority on this one. I agree with Nucking and wmn1 on this one.
> 
> You are right, the two of you have went through the a lot of ****. Now, that doesn't mean that life has been easy in the present or that all is sunshine and rainbows. It just doesn't work that way. Life does get easier and sometime you do find yourself in a "What now" moment. It happens to a lot of couples.
> 
> You did cheat and you admitted to the betrayal. You also had a child with the affair partner. That is a lot of crap to have to deal with and there is no doubt that it eats at both of you. But she still married you and knew the score before the marriage. The only thing I can tell you is to sit her down and tell her that you are extremely sorry for all the pain you have caused over the years and that you own your **** and acknowledge that you have not always been the best partner, but are 100% devoted to the marriage and are willing to do whatever is needed to help her through the issues she is having, but to step outside of the marriage is a path to far. There is just absolutely NO JUSTIFICATION FOR CHEATING!
> 
> I had an EA 15 years ago and still kick my own ass every single day all these years later. I had the chance to take it physical. The thought made me sick every time. I was extremely disgusting individual, but I never physically cheated on her. The thought of her cheating makes me violently ill and nauseous. The though of her doing that make her repulsive to me. There is no doubt I would immediately divorce and completely wipe her from my life forever. No, I don't have the moral high ground to exspect her fidelity. Call me a hypocrite all you want. That's just how it is. I would not get over it. That's just me.
> 
> You have to make your boundaries and enforce them where you feel it is necessary. Say you do let her have a free pass, would you even be able to be in her presence without being disgusted with her?
> 
> Tell her straight up, you cheat and I'm done if that's what you need to do. I don't envy your position. I do truly hope it all works out for you, but it honestly doesn't sound good.
> 
> *For all the other folks making a big deal about these kids having kids. Do you think it still doesn't happen today? You go into any big city and you will find the same crap play out every single day. Hell, a 100 years ago, kids were married off at the age of 13. Times change, but they don't change that much. I don't get the moral outrage over something that has happened hundreds of thousands of times. Yes, it's a ****ty way to start out life, but it happens.*


I agree. Not only was it far more common than some of you seem to think, but it's too late to do anything about it now, so let it go.


----------



## Windwalker

jma8 said:


> I haven’t wanted to apologize to her for our past because I don’t want to keep bringing it up and thought we had moved past that. I see that I’m probably wrong there and maybe it’s something that she needs to hear again. Some good points were said about that.
> 
> I love my wife. I appreciate her and I am thankful to her every day for sticking by me when I was at my worst, regardless of her reasoning. She has always been a far better and far stronger person than myself. Without her I don’t know where I would be in life, or if I’d even be here. She has always been there for me, with things in our relationship and outside of it. We have been through ups, and a lot of downs together, and I love her more because of it. We have always come out stronger. We are at a place now that we never thought we would be and I need to stand by her the way she has me and put more effort into understanding where she is coming form. I’m not willing to lose her over something that doesn’t even compare to other things we’ve gone through. Right now it's just curiosity, if that's as far as it goes we'll be ok.


These words right here, have you ever told your wife these exact words? That's very open and honest. I think you should share it with her. 

There is nothing weak about transparency. You can be transparent and strong at the same time.


----------



## jma8

Windwalker said:


> These words right here, have you ever told your wife these exact words? That's very open and honest. I think you should share it with her.
> 
> There is nothing weak about transparency. You can be transparent and strong at the same time.


Not really, maybe in bits and pieces and in our vows. Face to face I'm not great at expressing myself. I never want to bring things like this up, because I don't want to bring our past back up. Neither of us enjoy that. Right now she gets upset about it very easily. For a while we could talk about it without a lot of emotions but that's not the case at the moment. I think saying something like that to her would backfire right now.


----------



## lifeistooshort

OP, I think your problem may be in your delivery and overall lack of compassion you show your wife.

Your comment about not wanting to apologize because you don't want to talk about it is something my husband would say to me.....but as someone on the receiving end the message what I get is that what bothers me is far less important than him being uncomfortable dealing with it.

I get that you want it to be behind you, but the fact is that since you had a child with someone else that will never be the case. She has a constant reminder of what you did.....if you'd just screwed someone else and that person was gone from your life that might be a little different. But your child is there to serve as a constant reminder; this is what happens when a child comes from screwing around.

While I do think you need solid boundaries, I also think you could deliver them with a little more compassion for where she's coming from. She married you when she was young and naive, and now that she's nearing her sexual prime she's realizing that she's never been with anyone else; not only have you, you did it while cheating on her and you produced a constant reminder of it. 

For you to take a hard line now just makes you look like a hypocrite and a bit of a jerk. You think it's behind you but it's not for her.....an approach like that is not going to to change her mindset and I can almost guarantee you that it will be only a matter of time before she cheats anyway.

A better approach might be "wife, I am so sorry for what I did to you and if I could slap my younger self I would. I completely understand why you'd be having these feelings, but at this point we cannot remain married if exploring other men is what you want. Think long and hard about what it's worth to you". If tables were reversed and not only had you never been with anyone else but she'd cheated and had a child with that person you'd likely feel the same way.

I just don't think a hard ass approach is going to work here, but that doesn't mean you can't have compassionate boundaries. Frankly, I think you should be happy that she was comfortable enough to come to you with this.....what you absolutely don't want is to create an environment where she feels like she can't come to you. How do you think that will work out for you? Her coming to you is giving you an opportunity to address it. TBH, one of the issues I have with my husband is that I don't feel like I can approach him with things that bother me because he gets nasty.....like you he doesn't want to deal with it. I don't feel particularly close to him in that sense and I wish I did.


----------



## Tiggy!

How old were you both when you got married?

You mentioned you the child you have with someone else is a year younger than your first child and you stopped cheating at 18-19, so was there years of constant cheating?


----------



## ConanHub

Tiggy! said:


> How old were you both when you got married?
> 
> You mentioned you the child you have with someone else is a year younger than your first child and you stopped cheating at 18-19, so was there years of constant cheating?


Yes. However, the judgment of children, especially children in their dire circumstances, has to be taken into consideration for mitigation.


----------



## Tiggy!

ConanHub said:


> Yes. However, the judgment of children, especially children in their dire circumstances, has to be taken into consideration for mitigation.


I agree, however that fact doesn't seem to have diminished the damaged and pain cheating causes.
I'm not asking to hurt or pass judgment on the OP, I'm asking to get a better picture of the situation.


----------



## wmn1

not to derail but often times, when one side comes forward and offers interest in opening a marriage, it is because they have already been cheating and just is looking for an excuse to get it out in the open so they don't have to put in the work of hiding it anymore. Or they have a willing partner waiting on them

So JMA, do you think this could be the case ? 

What specific guy could she be interested in ?

Deep down inside, you know the answer is HELL NO to her seeing other guys and you are going to have to step to the plate and be confrontational in order to stop this. Otherwise, it will be too late and you are opening yourself to extreme pain. What other signs or behavioral patterns has she been showing lately ?

Hiding her cell phone ? Excessive store trips ? Talking on the phone but away from you ? Lingerie ?

Not trying to trigger you but think outside the box on this one and consider the reasons behind her asking you or telling you this.

Yes, it could be biological clock but something stinks here


----------



## Windwalker

lifeistooshort said:


> OP, I think your problem may be in your *delivery* and overall lack of *compassion* you show your wife.
> 
> Your comment about not wanting to apologize because you don't want to talk about it is something my husband would say to me.....*but as someone on the receiving end the message what I get is that what bothers me is far less important than him being uncomfortable dealing with it.*
> 
> I get that you want it to be behind you, but the fact is that since you had a child with someone else that will never be the case. She has a constant reminder of what you did.....if you'd just screwed someone else and that person was gone from your life that might be a little different. But your child is there to serve as a constant reminder; this is what happens when a child comes from screwing around.
> 
> While I do *think you need solid boundaries, I also think you could deliver them with a little more compassion for where she's coming from.* She married you when she was young and naive, and now that she's nearing her sexual prime she's realizing that she's never been with anyone else; not only have you, you did it while cheating on her and you produced a constant reminder of it.
> 
> For you to take a hard line now just makes you look like a hypocrite and a bit of a jerk. You think it's behind you but it's not for her.....an approach like that is not going to to change her mindset and I can almost guarantee you that it will be only a matter of time before she cheats anyway.
> 
> *A better approach might be "wife, I am so sorry for what I did to you and if I could slap my younger self I would. I completely understand why you'd be having these feelings, but at this point we cannot remain married if exploring other men is what you want. Think long and hard about what it's worth to you".* If tables were reversed and not only had you never been with anyone else but she'd cheated and had a child with that person you'd likely feel the same way.
> 
> I just don't think a hard ass approach is going to work here, but that doesn't mean you can't have compassionate boundaries. Frankly, I think you should be happy that she was comfortable enough to come to you with this.....what you absolutely don't want is to create an environment where she feels like she can't come to you. How do you think that will work out for you? Her coming to you is giving you an opportunity to address it. TBH, one of the issues I have with my husband is that I don't feel like I can approach him with things that bother me because he gets nasty.....like you he doesn't want to deal with it. I don't feel particularly close to him in that sense and I wish I did.


I think there is a lot of value in tooshort's words. Hence why I brought up transparency. I don't believe going hard nose is going to get you anywhere in this particular case. 

You know your wife better than any of us. I think it's important that we thank our spouces when they are honest with us, even when that honesty is hurtful. 

A little desire to forge through uncomfortable situations builds character. Compassion builds character as well. I wish I had better advise for you. Some cases, need a hard nose approach, some do not. I think compassion can go a long way here.


----------



## JustTheWife

You thought she had gotten over it and maybe she had gotten over the fact that you cheated.

Her problem now seems to be less about you cheating and more about her presumably very strong urges or curiosities for other guys. She resents you now because you had what she desperately wants now. You said that you both had so much to worry about, so much to fight for, and so many problems to overcome. So the hole that she feels she feels because she missed the "normal" life as a teenager and young adult (dating, flirting, having sex or fooling around) were put aside. Now the basics of life are more secure. She has more time to think about what she wants going forward in life and what she missed out on in life.

She may have gotten over your cheating but she has not gotten over this emptiness that she feels for what she never had in her life. The fact that you did have it (OK maybe it wasn't all carefree but you did have it) makes her very resentful. You could just say that this means she's using it as an excuse to get what she wants. But how she feels is how she feels. I'm not sure how much she can control it.

I real feel for you both and I hope that you can find a way around this. You've been through so so much together and it would be a shame for her sexual urges to threaten something that lasted so long and through so much hard times.


----------



## arbitrator

Nucking Futs said:


> No. He was 14 years old when he cheated on her and got another girl pregnant. He did abandon the relationship, but the relationship recovered and the marriage vows came after that. No cheating since marriage, the vows are not broken. If she cheats now, she will be the one to break the marriage vows.


*In that event, you both seriously need extensive marriage/psychological counseling!*


----------



## jma8

lifeistooshort said:


> OP, I think your problem may be in your delivery and overall lack of compassion you show your wife.
> 
> Your comment about not wanting to apologize because you don't want to talk about it is something my husband would say to me.....but as someone on the receiving end the message what I get is that what bothers me is far less important than him being uncomfortable dealing with it.
> 
> I get that you want it to be behind you, but the fact is that since you had a child with someone else that will never be the case. She has a constant reminder of what you did.....if you'd just screwed someone else and that person was gone from your life that might be a little different. But your child is there to serve as a constant reminder; this is what happens when a child comes from screwing around.
> 
> While I do think you need solid boundaries, I also think you could deliver them with a little more compassion for where she's coming from. She married you when she was young and naive, and now that she's nearing her sexual prime she's realizing that she's never been with anyone else; not only have you, you did it while cheating on her and you produced a constant reminder of it.
> 
> For you to take a hard line now just makes you look like a hypocrite and a bit of a jerk. You think it's behind you but it's not for her.....an approach like that is not going to to change her mindset and I can almost guarantee you that it will be only a matter of time before she cheats anyway.
> 
> A better approach might be "wife, I am so sorry for what I did to you and if I could slap my younger self I would. I completely understand why you'd be having these feelings, but at this point we cannot remain married if exploring other men is what you want. Think long and hard about what it's worth to you". If tables were reversed and not only had you never been with anyone else but she'd cheated and had a child with that person you'd likely feel the same way.
> 
> I just don't think a hard ass approach is going to work here, but that doesn't mean you can't have compassionate boundaries. Frankly, I think you should be happy that she was comfortable enough to come to you with this.....what you absolutely don't want is to create an environment where she feels like she can't come to you. How do you think that will work out for you? Her coming to you is giving you an opportunity to address it. TBH, one of the issues I have with my husband is that I don't feel like I can approach him with things that bother me because he gets nasty.....like you he doesn't want to deal with it. I don't feel particularly close to him in that sense and I wish I did.


It’s not that I don’t want to talk about our past or that I’m trying to ignore her feelings. It’s that I want to be able to move on from our past and not be constantly fighting about it. For years we didn’t bring it up unless needed and didn’t fight about it at all. We could talk about things without it turning into tears or a fight. I’d like to go back to that, we were at our happiest. Lately, when something comes up my wife will bring up many other things and it turns into a huge fight. An apology feels like an instigator for another fight. Apologies haven’t always been accepted. I’m not sure if she feels like I don’t care, she hasn’t mentioned that but it is a valid point I haven’t considered. 

I understand what you are saying. I haven’t exactly been kind in my responses when she’s brought it up, though to be fair we were fighting each time. And your spouse saying they want to have sex with another man isn’t an easy pill to swallow. She knew she was only going to have one partner when we married and knew that I had many more. She might be regretting that choice now but there is nothing that can be done about it, unless she’s going to leave the marriage or cheat. I think it should be nipped in the bud, she shouldn’t keep thinking about it. I don’t know how to be compassionate and firm at the same time. I can try and talk it through with her, and see what we can do to help with the feelings. If she wants to experiment more in our relationship. These aren’t thoughts that I enjoy my wife thinking about. I know people are going to think that I deserve it, and maybe I do. I have a hard time being sympathetic in this situation. 

I don’t want to do something that is going to make my wife B line it to someone else’s bed or make her think of me as more of a jerk. She has called me a hypocrite recently. 

We usually can talk to each other about anything, I do appreciate that. One thing we’ve practised for a long time is being totally open with each other. Nothing either of us could say now is worse than things I’ve said to her in the past, hopefully.


----------



## jma8

Tiggy! said:


> I agree, however that fact doesn't seem to have diminished the damaged and pain cheating causes.
> I'm not asking to hurt or pass judgment on the OP, I'm asking to get a better picture of the situation.


Yes there was years of constant cheating


----------



## jma8

wmn1 said:


> not to derail but often times, when one side comes forward and offers interest in opening a marriage, it is because they have already been cheating and just is looking for an excuse to get it out in the open so they don't have to put in the work of hiding it anymore. Or they have a willing partner waiting on them
> 
> So JMA, do you think this could be the case ?
> 
> What specific guy could she be interested in ?
> 
> Deep down inside, you know the answer is HELL NO to her seeing other guys and you are going to have to step to the plate and be confrontational in order to stop this. Otherwise, it will be too late and you are opening yourself to extreme pain. What other signs or behavioral patterns has she been showing lately ?
> 
> Hiding her cell phone ? Excessive store trips ? Talking on the phone but away from you ? Lingerie ?
> 
> Not trying to trigger you but think outside the box on this one and consider the reasons behind her asking you or telling you this.
> 
> Yes, it could be biological clock but something stinks here


I don’t think she is cheating or has cheated. She has one close male friend who she has known for most of her life, longer than she’s known me. He’s married and they are close friends but I have never seen any sign of it being more. 

She doesn’t ever hide her phone and I use it whenever mine isn’t nearby. She doesn’t clear her browsing history, and I’ve seen things that she’s searched for that relate to this issue. She doesn’t go out with friends often. When she does go out alone she takes the kids. I do feel confident that she’s not cheating and hasn’t cheated. I can't see her doing that. 

I have seen it mentioned a couple times now, why would it be a biological clock issue? We’re done having kids. That was a mutual decision. It's not as if she should want kids with someone else.


----------



## lifeistooshort

jma8 said:


> It’s not that I don’t want to talk about our past or that I’m trying to ignore her feelings. It’s that I want to be able to move on from our past and not be constantly fighting about it. For years we didn’t bring it up unless needed and didn’t fight about it at all. We could talk about things without it turning into tears or a fight. I’d like to go back to that, we were at our happiest. Lately, when something comes up my wife will bring up many other things and it turns into a huge fight. An apology feels like an instigator for another fight. Apologies haven’t always been accepted. I’m not sure if she feels like I don’t care, she hasn’t mentioned that but it is a valid point I haven’t considered.
> 
> I understand what you are saying. I haven’t exactly been kind in my responses when she’s brought it up, though to be fair we were fighting each time. And your spouse saying they want to have sex with another man isn’t an easy pill to swallow. She knew she was only going to have one partner when we married and knew that I had many more. She might be regretting that choice now but there is nothing that can be done about it, unless she’s going to leave the marriage or cheat. I think it should be nipped in the bud, she shouldn’t keep thinking about it. I don’t know how to be compassionate and firm at the same time. I can try and talk it through with her, and see what we can do to help with the feelings. If she wants to experiment more in our relationship. These aren’t thoughts that I enjoy my wife thinking about. I know people are going to think that I deserve it, and maybe I do. I have a hard time being sympathetic in this situation.
> 
> I don’t want to do something that is going to make my wife B line it to someone else’s bed or make her think of me as more of a jerk. She has called me a hypocrite recently.
> 
> We usually can talk to each other about anything, I do appreciate that. One thing we’ve practised for a long time is being totally open with each other. Nothing either of us could say now is worse than things I’ve said to her in the past, hopefully.


How many other partners are we talking about?

You now have some insight into how she probably felt while you were banging everything in sight, except that she hasn't actually done it. 

You just seem to have so little compassion for what you put her through and now everything is about you and how you feel. 

I really wish you would think that over. Telling a spouse that they knew what they were getting and should suck it up rarely ends well.


----------



## wmn1

Life, she forgave him and married him and had kids with him.

At this point, it's all on her.

She had opportunities to move on and didn't.

Now is not the time to cheat.
It's actually a pretty disgusting concept IMO


----------



## Tiggy!

Did you guys get married pretty young?


----------



## jma8

Tiggy! said:


> Did you guys get married pretty young?


We legally married at 19, had a wedding ceremony at 22.


----------



## jma8

lifeistooshort said:


> How many other partners are we talking about?
> 
> You now have some insight into how she probably felt while you were banging everything in sight, except that she hasn't actually done it.
> 
> You just seem to have so little compassion for what you put her through and now everything is about you and how you feel.
> 
> I really wish you would think that over. Telling a spouse that they knew what they were getting and should suck it up rarely ends well.


The honest answer is I don't know. I do feel like **** every day. I'm disgusted by the way I treated her, and myself and others during those years. I hate how much I've hurt my wife and I wish I could take it back. I appreciate her endlessly for staying with me and somehow still being able to love me. Knowing what is on her mind right now makes me feel like crap, I know what she felt would have been 100x worse. I'm not trying to make everything about me and my feelings. If it is coming off that way, that's not the intent. If it comes off that way here, I'm betting it does to my wife as well.


----------



## ConanHub

lifeistooshort said:


> How many other partners are we talking about?
> 
> You now have some insight into how she probably felt while you were banging everything in sight, except that she hasn't actually done it.
> 
> You just seem to have so little compassion for what you put her through and now everything is about you and how you feel.
> 
> I really wish you would think that over. Telling a spouse that they knew what they were getting and should suck it up rarely ends well.


I get what he is saying but I'm not sure what you are.

So if you were with someone that cheated on you, worked through it and agreed to marry him, then 13 years after the fact, decided you wanted to get even?
I think this probably has more to do with their changing circumstances like achieving goals and the oldest moving to adulthood. 

Her whole life has been wrapped in motherhood and overcoming stressful situations.

Now things have calmed and something that has nearly defined her whole life, her oldest child, is moving on.

It is possible that she is troubled by other things and using his former cheating to justify her emotions.

Many men and women experience the same emotions she is with no cheating by their spouse.

These emotions do often hit women at there peak and when children start leaving the nest.

I think it is at least possible that his cheating 13 years ago isn't the core issue behind her interest in other men.

Not taking anything away from her pain however.

She does have to understand that cuckolding him will absolutely end the marriage.

She did choose to marry him after he had cheated and he has remained faithful.

Her emotions are very important but they can't be validated at the cost of the marriage.

She absolutely can have other men. She just can't hang on to the one she has while she does it.

OP.

There are far better counselors out there than the two lame ducks you two have experienced so far.

Do some research and get some free consultations to get a feel for if they can understand your situation.

She needs someone that is on her side but that doesn't mean agreeing with her about having sex with other men as a healthy idea.


----------



## ConanHub

jma8 said:


> The honest answer is I don't know. I do feel like **** every day. I'm disgusted by the way I treated her, and myself and others during those years. I hate how much I've hurt my wife and I wish I could take it back. I appreciate her endlessly for staying with me and somehow still being able to love me. Knowing what is on her mind right now makes me feel like crap, I know what she felt would have been 100x worse. I'm not trying to make everything about me and my feelings. If it is coming off that way, that's not the intent. If it comes off that way here, I'm betting it does to my wife as well.


Does she still love you?


----------



## Tiggy!

Considering she has voiced her curiosity with other men to you (and has also mentioned separating) I'm not convinced she is trying to cheat.


----------



## lifeistooshort

wmn1 said:


> Life, she forgave him and married him and had kids with him.
> 
> At this point, it's all on her.
> 
> She had opportunities to move on and didn't.
> 
> Now is not the time to cheat.
> It's actually a pretty disgusting concept IMO


I don't agree. She married him at 19.... people change and sometimes things you think you can deal with you eventually realize you can't.

See had two kids before adulthood and he was all she knew.....hardly the position of one capable of making such a decision. If that had been my daughter I'd have advised against marrying him. 

Besides, it's not clear to me that she actually asked to cheat. She's expressed curiosity and interest in trying more things. I honestly don't understand why you see him as the victim here, unless there's something I've missed. 

Suck it up is not going to end well for him.


----------



## jma8

ConanHub said:


> I get what he is saying but I'm not sure what you are.
> 
> So if you were with someone that cheated on you, worked through it and agreed to marry him, then 13 years after the fact, decided you wanted to get even?
> I think this probably has more to do with their changing circumstances like achieving goals and the oldest moving to adulthood.
> 
> Her whole life has been wrapped in motherhood and overcoming stressful situations.
> 
> Now things have calmed and something that has nearly defined her whole life, her oldest child, is moving on.
> 
> It is possible that she is troubled by other things and using his former cheating to justify her emotions.
> 
> Many men and women experience the same emotions she is with no cheating by their spouse.
> 
> These emotions do often hit women at there peak and when children start leaving the nest.
> 
> I think it is at least possible that his cheating 13 years ago isn't the core issue behind her interest in other men.
> 
> Not taking anything away from her pain however.
> 
> She does have to understand that cuckolding him will absolutely end the marriage.
> 
> She did choose to marry him after he had cheated and he has remained faithful.
> 
> Her emotions are very important but they can't be validated at the cost of the marriage.
> 
> She absolutely can have other men. She just can't hang on to the one she has while she does it.
> 
> OP.
> 
> There are far better counselors out there than the two lame ducks you two have experienced so far.
> 
> Do some research and get some free consultations to get a feel for if they can understand your situation.
> 
> She needs someone that is on her side but that doesn't mean agreeing with her about having sex with other men as a healthy idea.


You are correct that there are better counsellors out there. Convincing my wife to go see one again isn't an easy task. We would both benefit from seeing someone I'm sure. I do think that our daughter moving across the country and issues with my other child have played a role in how she's feeling. 

Up until early late 2016 we were doing good. We were happy and were not having problems. Last November our daughter told us that she was applying to a university across the country. That was the first domino to fall. My wife and oldest daughter are very close, always have been. My wife has taken it very hard and says it feels like a huge part of her is missing. This February our daughter told us that she did get into the school and would be moving. Two weeks later issues came up with my other child and his mother about paying for schooling. My wife knew it was coming, but was less than impressed at losing a large chunk of savings. She wasn't against sending my son to school, she was pissed at me. My son lives further away and I don't see him regularly, especially at his age now. I'll drive up to spend a weekend here and there (hotel), or see him at holidays. He wanted to work for the summer and I offered him a job, I could keep my eye on him (he's a bit of a difficult one) and see him more before he started school. He stayed with us for the summer. My wife agreed to it, and it wasn't the first time he's stayed with us for the summer but it is correct that he is a reminder of what I've done to her, like it or not. During the summer we were also prepping our daughter for her move. It was a bad year for my marriage.


----------



## jma8

ConanHub said:


> Does she still love you?


She says she does. At times I feel it. Not often anymore, but sometimes. I have offered separation or divorce while fighting and she immediately says no, starts crying and doesn't want me to leave the room. At times I wonder does she stay with me because she loves me, or is it because I'm all she knows and she's more scared of the unknown than a forever with me. She is still physical with me. Sex, cuddling, kissing, normal things she does through the day. I don't feel a lot of loving emotions coming from her lately, but that's not unusual for her when she's upset. Semi-recently she said she wished she didn't love me, that was a great one to hear. We were fighting when it was said.


----------



## jma8

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't agree. She married him at 19.... people change and sometimes things you think you can deal with you eventually realize you can't.
> 
> See had two kids before adulthood and he was all she knew.....hardly the position of one capable of making such a decision. If that had been my daughter I'd have advised against marrying him.
> 
> Besides, it's not clear to me that she actually asked to cheat. She's expressed curiosity and interest in trying more things. I honestly don't understand why you see him as the victim here, unless there's something I've missed.
> 
> Suck it up is not going to end well for him.


You are correct, she has not asked to cheat or asked to open the marriage. She has brought up divorce and separation, not an open marriage. She has said that she wonders about other men, what it would be like to be with them, what dating would be like. She has asked me personally what hook ups are like. She has said some things while deep in a screaming fight, that I'm not taking into consideration here. I asked her, if I was completely ok with her having sex with other men to experiment would she want to do it and the answer wasn't no. She has also said that she could never do to me or our kids what I did to her, and them. 

I don't want to tell her to suck it up and get over it.


----------



## lifeistooshort

jma8 said:


> The honest answer is I don't know. I do feel like **** every day. I'm disgusted by the way I treated her, and myself and others during those years. I hate how much I've hurt my wife and I wish I could take it back. I appreciate her endlessly for staying with me and somehow still being able to love me. Knowing what is on her mind right now makes me feel like crap, I know what she felt would have been 100x worse. I'm not trying to make everything about me and my feelings. If it is coming off that way, that's not the intent. If it comes off that way here, I'm betting it does to my wife as well.


You know what? That bit of insight might be the most valuable tool you have here..... a new perspective on how you're likely coming across to her.

Says a lot about you that you were able to make that connection. 

Change how you come across to her and her attitude may change.


----------



## Edmund

Edmund said:


> Just to clarify, I think cheating is when a married person has an extramarital affair, either EA or PA, and the spouse either knows about it and has forbidden it, or doesn't know about it (cheater kept it secret). If the spouse consents or approves of the extramarital affair, it isn't cheating.
> 
> 
> 
> If OP retains his rigid view (in view of his own activities as a teen and the fallout therefrom) on wife's curiosity / desire for exploration, she will probably cheat on him sooner or later. It would be a shame because for a marriage to survive as long as they have, with such a horrendous family background, and through so many really bad decisions, they must have a strong bond to each other.




...


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## 269370

Interesting story. I see two reasons for her recent ‘complaints’ or expressing curiosity/ dissatisfaction with your marriage: either she feels a bit trapped in it; which happens a lot when people meet young and stay together, become co-dependant and later realise that there is actually not much left in terms of what is holding them together. 
Or she may have already found somebody else and you haven’t noticed it yet. The fact that she acts ‘shy’ with guys around you does not say anything regarding her attitude towards attention from other men when you are not around. I’m not saying she is cheating but she may have a close male friend perhaps who she confides in for example.
Anyway, assuming it is the first thing (which is more likely at this point): I don’t know what the outcome eventually might be. It is not easy to change or turn someone’s feelings around and if they aren’t really feeling the same stuff...Nor am I sure that it is that advisable to fight for it (some women get even more put off by it, it doesn’t achieve much but makes you look desperate in any case). Perhaps your first priority in this matter is to narrow down first what exactly she feels is missing in your marriage?

Re your cheating: as soon as you mention those words and yourself in the same sentence here, you can forget posting anything else: whether you were an adult, 13 or 6 years old, people will see red.
I think it possibly did affect her trust in a way some time ago, but I don’t think it has anything to do with her more recent feelings. This change of heart happens to many people who have no cheating partners too.
I actually think you mentioned it perhaps subconsciously thinking that that might be the reason to explain her behaviour: I don’t think it is that straightforward I’m afraid. I might be wrong.
It might be harsh but in a way if you truly love her, you would show her more compassion by suggesting of letting her pursue her dreams (whatever those may be) and let her go. You never know, she may realise what really matters to her and ‘snap out of it’. People use a different term for it here (180 I think).


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## 269370

Duplicate






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## 269370

jma8 said:


> I don’t think she is cheating or has cheated. She has one close male friend who she has known for most of her life, longer than she’s known me. He’s married and they are close friends but I have never seen any sign of it being more.



Here you go then. There are people here who would consider having a ‘close friend’ of the opposite sex they confide in as cheating. (I don’t, but it depends...). I’m not saying she is being disloyal by having a male friend but if he’s her ‘emotional outlet’, I would be slightly careful at this point.
The fact that he’s married doesn’t really make a difference.



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## 269370

jma8 said:


> She doesn’t ever hide her phone and I use it whenever mine isn’t nearby. She doesn’t clear her browsing history, and I’ve seen things that she’s searched for that relate to this issue.



What exactly do you mean by this? Relate to which issue?



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## 269370

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't agree. She married him at 19.... people change and sometimes things you think you can deal with you eventually realize you can't.
> 
> See had two kids before adulthood and he was all she knew.....hardly the position of one capable of making such a decision. If that had been my daughter I'd have advised against marrying him.
> 
> Besides, it's not clear to me that she actually asked to cheat. She's expressed curiosity and interest in trying more things. I honestly don't understand why you see him as the victim here, unless there's something I've missed.
> 
> Suck it up is not going to end well for him.



But why do you think he’s expecting her to ‘suck it up’? In a previous post, you mentioned that he hasn’t apologised to her for something he did while a teenager, but why did you assume that he hasn’t apologised? In fact he later clarified that he did apologise throughout many years and that they dealt with the issue. 
I do have to say I must be a little bit biased but I believe it is difficult (perhaps impossible) to make rational decisions when you are 13-19...in fact scientists say you are not really supposed to make any life changing decisions before the age of 28 because that part of the brain hasn’t finished developing fully but expected to take full responsibility for actions from teenage years seems a little unreasonable to me (though highly unfortunate for his wife).



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## 269370

jma8 said:


> She says she does. At times I feel it. Not often anymore, but sometimes. I have offered separation or divorce while fighting and she immediately says no, starts crying and doesn't want me to leave the room. At times I wonder does she stay with me because she loves me, or is it because I'm all she knows and she's more scared of the unknown than a forever with me. She is still physical with me. Sex, cuddling, kissing, normal things she does through the day. I don't feel a lot of loving emotions coming from her lately, but that's not unusual for her when she's upset. Semi-recently she said she wished she didn't love me, that was a great one to hear. We were fighting when it was said.



She sounds conflicted. Maybe she is mistaking ‘love’ for being used to you?


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## alexm

My opinion - although the backstory is important (always is), it's actually fairly irrelevant a lot of the time.

I believe this is one of those situations where previous cheating only exacerbates an issue that likely would have occurred, regardless. As in: OP's previous unfaithfulness just adds one more piece of ammunition, or perhaps justification, in his wife's mind.

The reality is that he is all she knows, romantically and sexually. And from an _extremely_ young age, at that. Not to mention that he has been one of the constants in her generally unfortunate upbringing.

IMO, similar situations are commonplace regardless of the ages of the people involved. If they got together at 15, 17, or 20 - and he is all she's ever known.

Add to that the very young ages when they started with each other, children, parental upbringing (or lack of it), and a myriad of other issues, and it's genuinely not a shock that one or the other is wondering what they've missed.

An important note that some seem to have missed is that she did not want to be with him any longer in their mid-teens, and was ready to break up with him. Circumstances prevented this from happening (his father's death, her fear of never finding someone else, etc.)

The unfortunate reality is that she is, and probably has been for some time, felt "stuck".

Now that the first kids are older and self-sufficient, that chapter of her life is "over". There are younger kids (or one kid?), and the thought of being a single parent at this point is no longer as scary as it was at 12 or 13.

Not only that, but the oldest child is now 19, in university, and from the sounds of it is a pretty decent young woman. OP's wife now has an "ally", a family member who's not awful to her. Don't discount the fact that her daughter is quite likely the only person/family member who's never done anything bad to her. It's empowering, considering where she came from.

So whether OP likes it or not, his wife is not, and never will be "over" his teenage cheating. But I don't think she's using that as an excuse - rather it's just one (of many) reminders of her tumultuous and unfortunate upbringing, her past. Things she'll never be able to forget, but that she can now move away from.

My point, really, is that when things change over time, go awry, or even stay the same, it's not uncommon for one person to begin to harbour resentment towards the other - real or imagined. All it takes is for one person to feel "stuck". My ex wife and I were together from our late teens until our early 30's. No kids, had a house, careers, and not a bad life at all. But towards the end, she started to feel "stuck", confined, whatever. And that was WITHOUT all the stuff you guys have gone through. One of the last things she said to me was "You stole my 20's from me". That's false logic, obviously, but it hurt nonetheless.


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## 269370

lifeistooshort said:


> one of the issues I have with my husband is that I don't feel like I can approach him with things that bother me because he gets nasty.....like you he doesn't want to deal with it. I don't feel particularly close to him in that sense and I wish I did.



Can I ask (as I’m curious about it): if your husband accepted responsibility for everything you approach him with, would it fix everything in your marriage?
The reason I ask is that I tried that approach and found that the more I apologised for, the more upset my wife would get with me (and for longer periods) and the more she would blame me for until I just couldn’t take it anymore. I felt that instead of the apologies taking care of the issues, it validated her dissatisfaction with me and made her more upset.

That’s not to say one shouldn’t apologise (far from it) but that there’s perhaps somewhere a balance before a breaking point is reached.



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## lifeistooshort

inmyprime said:


> But why do you think he’s expecting her to ‘suck it up’? In a previous post, you mentioned that he hasn’t apologised to her for something he did while a teenager, but why did you assume that he hasn’t apologised? In fact he later clarified that he did apologise throughout many years and that they dealt with the issue.
> I do have to say I must be a little bit biased but I believe it is difficult (perhaps impossible) to make rational decisions when you are 13-19...in fact scientists say you are not really supposed to make any life changing decisions before the age of 28 because that part of the brain hasn’t finished developing fully but expected to take full responsibility for actions from teenage years seems a little unreasonable to me (though highly unfortunate for his wife).


Read his posts. He's said he doesn't like to apologize because he wants it to go away. 

Except that there's a constant reminder who's now going to college.

And if his teenage brain couldn't process what he was doing, why was her 19 year old brain somehow capable of fully processing what it meant to marry him with all of his baggage?

Seems like if you're going to use this logic they should both me the recipients of it.


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## farsidejunky

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't agree. She married him at 19.... people change and sometimes things you think you can deal with you eventually realize you can't.
> 
> See had two kids before adulthood and he was all she knew.....hardly the position of one capable of making such a decision. If that had been my daughter I'd have advised against marrying him.
> 
> Besides, it's not clear to me that she actually asked to cheat. She's expressed curiosity and interest in trying more things. I honestly don't understand why you see him as the victim here, unless there's something I've missed.
> 
> Suck it up is not going to end well for him.


You keep saying "suck it up" won't work.

How about suggesting what will? 

I know...not an easy task as I don't have an answer either.


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## lifeistooshort

farsidejunky said:


> You keep saying "suck it up" won't work.
> 
> How about suggesting what will?
> 
> I know...not an easy task as I don't have an answer either.


I've made suggestions in other posts that he's responded to.

He's a thoughtful guy.


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## 269370

lifeistooshort said:


> Read his posts. He's said he doesn't like to apologize because he wants it to go away.
> 
> Except that there's a constant reminder who's now going to college.
> 
> And if his teenage brain couldn't process what he was doing, why was her 19 year old brain somehow capable of fully processing what it meant to marry him with all of his baggage?
> 
> Seems like if you're going to use this logic they should both me the recipients of it.




No I agree-I don’t actually think she should be expected to process anything any more than his teenage brain, hence why I said that the truly altruistic thing for him to do (if he truly cares for her) would be to ‘help her’ break free and suggest tactfully that perhaps the marriage has too much baggage and she would be happier with someone else.
My point is that it is not directly his fault what happened in his teenage years yet she is entirely within reason to have been majorly affected by the events in the past. 

We cannot form our full perception of the person completely ignoring their actions (even if those actions happened decades ago). It’s an unfortunate fact of life.
However since they are now both adults, they should do it properly: break up first then find other people. Her bringing up wanting to mess around with other men does not seem especially purposeful at this juncture. Unless it has a purpose of course.


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## farsidejunky

OP, your approach should be a combination of humility and boundaries.

"Wife, I treated you terribly for years. For that I am truly sorry. That you stayed and carried me through so much makes me appreciate you more than words can say. That said, I love you too much to deny you what you want from life. If experiencing another man is so important to you, and that desire is so strong, I will free you from our marriage to pursue it, and there is no returning to the marriage once it happens. While I am willing to either be your husband or your ex husband, I am not willing to share you. I have too much respect for both of us to go down that path. Please let me know what you choose."

And you have to mean it, OP.

Let her make the choice.


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## 269370

lifeistooshort said:


> Read his posts. He's said he doesn't like to apologize because he wants it to go away.
> 
> Except that there's a constant reminder who's now going to college.
> 
> And if his teenage brain couldn't process what he was doing, why was her 19 year old brain somehow capable of fully processing what it meant to marry him with all of his baggage?
> 
> Seems like if you're going to use this logic they should both me the recipients of it.




I read his posts. He did not say that.


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## lifeistooshort

inmyprime said:


> I read his posts. He did not say that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes he did. Post 58, paragraph 5.


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## 269370

lifeistooshort said:


> Yes he did. Post 58, paragraph 5.




He said this in post 22: “I have apologized to her many times, it doesn't feel like something that I should keep bringing up. I do need to try and get the romance back on track. It's hard when she doesn't accept it or reciprocate it, but I do need to get over that and keep trying.”

In the post you mention: I took it to mean that he doesn’t think that keep apologising to her will help the situation as it makes her more upset and they fight more as a result and that there comes a point (after years of apologising) that the person has to either accept the sincerity of the apology or perhaps find a way to move on.

You took it to mean that he wants her to suck it up and doesn’t like apologising.

I guess we took totally different things from the same text.

My apologies 


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## WilliamM

jma8 said:


> WilliamM said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know you don't like it, but she is still upset about your affair. You guys never settled that. It was rug swept.
> 
> As for my own, yes, I figured when my wife let a friend seduce her it did give me a free pass any time after that. We are children of the sixties, so we got wild and crazy, but the fact is I did have sex with other women, and it was her affair that got that started. If she had not slipped up we probably would have slipped off the monogamy wagon anyway, but who knows.
> 
> I do know her affair drove me pretty crazy until after I had sex with another woman, sort of a revenge thing.
> 
> There were other issues, too. But that did happen.
> 
> Personally I think your affair is still eating at your wife's soul, and she is twisting in the wind.
> 
> 
> 
> We have settled it, though. It wasn't swept under the rug. I don't know how else to say that. It's not like she found out about the cheating and just dropped it. It caused YEARS of problems. We were in our mid-20's before it stopped being an issue. The cheating stopped when we were 18-19. So about 6 years of it being an issue and NOT swept under the rug in the slightest.
> 
> She is upset about the past. I understand that and why she is upset. That isn't an excuse to cheat, at all. I'm going to sound like a douche here, but it also shouldn't be something that effects months and months of our lives. At some point we have to move on from it, and I thought we had.
> 
> I do not want a divorce, not in the slightest. We have been through far worse together than her being curious about other men - as long as that is as far as it goes. Is the general consensus on this site actually that if one person cheats the other is entitled to cheat as well, whenever they want, with nothing wrong with it?
Click to expand...

I cannot speak to what the consensus of the board may be. I only speak for me, about my experiences, and a little about the tiniest bit of the ugly thing called humanity I have observed. Personally I prefer machines.

My wife had an affair. I am certain I could not have forgiven her if I had not had sex with other women after that.

I have read other people say reconciliation after one partner has an affair is difficult. I certainly can understand it is difficult. In my case no amount of apologizing and groveling and trying to prove she loves me would have worked if I had not also had sex with other women to even the score. 

I can understand why most betrayal can never be forgiven, and most affairs lead to divorce, if that is actually the case. I can certainly believe most times an affair is discovered it does lead to divorce. 

How to get past the trauma is a mystery I cannot help you with because my own answers will not work for you. 

But I do think your wife is still hurting from the pain. You underestimate just how much damage you did to her.

You think an affair should not effect your marriage for years, or even months? 

It is written most marriages are broken forever by an affair. Forever.

You just do not understand the depth of her pain.


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## Windwalker

farsidejunky said:


> OP, your approach should be a combination of humility and boundaries.
> 
> "Wife, I treated you terribly for years. For that I am truly sorry. That you stayed and carried me through so much makes me appreciate you more than words can say. That said, I love you too much to deny you what you want from life. If experiencing another man is so important to you, and that desire is so strong, I will free you from our marriage to pursue it, and there is no returning to the marriage once it happens. While I am willing to either be your husband or your ex husband, I am not willing to share you. I have too much respect for both of us to go down that path. Please let me know what you choose."
> 
> And you have to mean it, OP.
> 
> Let her make the choice.


Far, that's the post of the thread right there.
Transparency and Humility.

OP, this is good advise.


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## michzz

wmn1 said:


> not to derail but often times, when one side comes forward and offers interest in opening a marriage, it is because they have already been cheating and just is looking for an excuse to get it out in the open so they don't have to put in the work of hiding it anymore. Or they have a willing partner waiting on them
> 
> So JMA, do you think this could be the case ?
> 
> What specific guy could she be interested in ?


This is a distinct possibility. Do not discount it because it is distasteful to contemplate.





farsidejunky said:


> OP, your approach should be a combination of humility and boundaries.
> 
> "Wife, I treated you terribly for years. For that I am truly sorry. That you stayed and carried me through so much makes me appreciate you more than words can say. That said, I love you too much to deny you what you want from life. If experiencing another man is so important to you, and that desire is so strong, I will free you from our marriage to pursue it, and there is no returning to the marriage once it happens. While I am willing to either be your husband or your ex husband, I am not willing to share you. I have too much respect for both of us to go down that path. Please let me know what you choose."
> 
> And you have to mean it, OP.
> 
> Let her make the choice.


This is a good approach. Set your boundary and enforce it.

One other thought.

Time has passed since you stepped out on her and got someone pregnant.

That said, the passage of time does not heal. It is what you do with the time that heals.

One short episode of counseling a decade ago is not a healing method.


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## ConanHub

OP.

Or you could just go ape **** caveman and tell her to pick someone she hates because you will kill him!!

Followed by loud grunts and growls while beating your chest.😁


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## RandomDude

ConanHub said:


> OP.
> 
> Or you could just go ape **** caveman and tell her to pick someone she hates because you will kill him!!
> 
> Followed by loud grunts and growls while beating your chest.&#55357;&#56833;


Conan! What is best in life?


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## ConanHub

RandomDude said:


> Conan! What is best in life?


Well....

To defeat your enemies, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women!>


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## RandomDude

ConanHub said:


> Well....
> 
> To defeat your enemies, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women!>


Haha! That is gooood!


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## TRy

jma8 said:


> We legally married at 19, had a wedding ceremony at 22.


 You got married at 19 and never cheated again. What you did as a kid does not matter nearly as much as what you did after you grew up and took your marriage vows. You had a child with her at a very young age before you were ready, and I am sure it was not your intent to have children that young. You having a child as kids (13 years old) locked you both into a relationship that neither of you were ready for. The fact is if you murdered someone at 13, you would be freed, and would have your record cleared, because you were too darn young to be held accountable for the rest of your life for it. You will see in my past posts that I am normally a hard nose against cheating. In your case, being forced into a long term monogamous commitment because of a child, at way too young of an age, is a legitimate extenuating circumstance as long as you stopped cheating when you grew up and got married. 

Now that you are finally empty nesters, now is the time for both of you to decide if you want to stay married. At 32 years old, you are both young enough to experience dating and to remarry others. Should you decide to stay married, what you did prior to marriage must be wiped off the books like a juvenile criminal conviction. If you stay married you can still date each other. In another thread on this site I posted the following about dating my wife:

"Years ago, when my wife and I started date night we had the same issue of only talking about "news, kids, and things like that", so we did a reset and on date nights were we treat each other like we were not married. On date night she no longer dresses like a soccer mom and instead dresses like her single friends when they go out. In fact she asked me to shop with her for date night outfits, and man is she sexy in those outfits. I bring flowers, hold open the door for her, pull her chair out, and do not discuss prices on food and drinks with her. During the week we both make an effort to think up interesting and fun things to discuss on date night; I learn new jokes to tell her that I know that she will like because I love when I can get her to laugh. We also sit at the bar so that we are part of the action, and go to places that play music so that we can dance (we had not danced in years). On many occasions, people tell us that they did not know that we were married because we do not "act like a married couple". 

One side thing is that I park the car after I drop her off so that she does have to walk far in her high heels, and when she gets us seats at the bar before I get there, she often gets hit on by other men which pumps up her ego; then when I sit down beside her, she makes a point of focusing on me, letting everyone know that I am her man which makes me feel good too."


----------



## wmn1

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't agree. She married him at 19.... people change and sometimes things you think you can deal with you eventually realize you can't.
> 
> See had two kids before adulthood and he was all she knew.....hardly the position of one capable of making such a decision. If that had been my daughter I'd have advised against marrying him.
> 
> Besides, it's not clear to me that she actually asked to cheat. She's expressed curiosity and interest in trying more things. I honestly don't understand why you see him as the victim here, unless there's something I've missed.
> 
> Suck it up is not going to end well for him.


Any time open marriage is asked for, to me it's wrong. 

It is wrong because they have an established marriage with values and now she wants to change that or is considering that.

He was wrong at one point. I get that. However, now is not the time to change the rules of the game and subject this guy to that.

She petty much forgave him and had a family. Now is not the time to change the rules and screw him over IMO


----------



## wmn1

lifeistooshort said:


> Yes he did. Post 58, paragraph 5.


things are said in the heat of the moment.

I have said things that I wish I could retract.

The point IMO is why stay with him, have kids, get married and then do this ?

She could have walked away but she didn't.

It's on her too


----------



## Nucking Futs

TRy said:


> You got married at 19 and never cheated again. What you did as a kid does not matter nearly as much as what you did after you grew up and took your marriage vows. You had a child with her at a very young age before you were ready, and I am sure it was not your intent to have children that young. You having a child as kids (13 years old) locked you both into a relationship that neither of you were ready for. The fact is if you murdered someone at 13, you would be freed, and would have your record cleared, because you were too darn young to be held accountable for the rest of your life for it. You will see in my past posts that I am normally a hard nose against cheating. In your case, being forced into a long term monogamous commitment because of a child, at way too young of an age, is a legitimate extenuating circumstance as long as you stopped cheating when you grew up and got married.
> 
> *Now that you are finally empty nesters,* now is the time for both of you to decide if you want to stay married. At 32 years old, you are both young enough to experience dating and to remarry others. Should you decide to stay married, what you did prior to marriage must be wiped off the books like a juvenile criminal conviction. If you stay married you can still date each other. In another thread on this site I posted the following about dating my wife:
> 
> "Years ago, when my wife and I started date night we had the same issue of only talking about "news, kids, and things like that", so we did a reset and on date nights were we treat each other like we were not married. On date night she no longer dresses like a soccer mom and instead dresses like her single friends when they go out. In fact she asked me to shop with her for date night outfits, and man is she sexy in those outfits. I bring flowers, hold open the door for her, pull her chair out, and do not discuss prices on food and drinks with her. During the week we both make an effort to think up interesting and fun things to discuss on date night; I learn new jokes to tell her that I know that she will like because I love when I can get her to laugh. We also sit at the bar so that we are part of the action, and go to places that play music so that we can dance (we had not danced in years). On many occasions, people tell us that they did not know that we were married because we do not "act like a married couple".
> 
> One side thing is that I park the car after I drop her off so that she does have to walk far in her high heels, and when she gets us seats at the bar before I get there, she often gets hit on by other men which pumps up her ego; then when I sit down beside her, she makes a point of focusing on me, letting everyone know that I am her man which makes me feel good too."


They have more kids, youngest is 2 years old.


----------



## wmn1

TRy said:


> You got married at 19 and never cheated again. What you did as a kid does not matter nearly as much as what you did after you grew up and took your marriage vows. You had a child with her at a very young age before you were ready, and I am sure it was not your intent to have children that young. You having a child as kids (13 years old) locked you both into a relationship that neither of you were ready for. The fact is if you murdered someone at 13, you would be freed, and would have your record cleared, because you were too darn young to be held accountable for the rest of your life for it. You will see in my past posts that I am normally a hard nose against cheating. In your case, being forced into a long term monogamous commitment because of a child, at way too young of an age, is a legitimate extenuating circumstance as long as you stopped cheating when you grew up and got married.
> 
> Now that you are finally empty nesters, now is the time for both of you to decide if you want to stay married. At 32 years old, you are both young enough to experience dating and to remarry others. Should you decide to stay married, what you did prior to marriage must be wiped off the books like a juvenile criminal conviction. If you stay married you can still date each other. In another thread on this site I posted the following about dating my wife:
> 
> "Years ago, when my wife and I started date night we had the same issue of only talking about "news, kids, and things like that", so we did a reset and on date nights were we treat each other like we were not married. On date night she no longer dresses like a soccer mom and instead dresses like her single friends when they go out. In fact she asked me to shop with her for date night outfits, and man is she sexy in those outfits. I bring flowers, hold open the door for her, pull her chair out, and do not discuss prices on food and drinks with her. During the week we both make an effort to think up interesting and fun things to discuss on date night; I learn new jokes to tell her that I know that she will like because I love when I can get her to laugh. We also sit at the bar so that we are part of the action, and go to places that play music so that we can dance (we had not danced in years). On many occasions, people tell us that they did not know that we were married because we do not "act like a married couple".
> 
> One side thing is that I park the car after I drop her off so that she does have to walk far in her high heels, and when she gets us seats at the bar before I get there, she often gets hit on by other men which pumps up her ego; then when I sit down beside her, she makes a point of focusing on me, letting everyone know that I am her man which makes me feel good too."


I agree TRY.

Look, IMO, she forgave his infidelities. Now that they have overcome that, she had her chance to move on but instead stood by him and stayed with him

Now to suggest, as some here have, that she should be free to 'explore' is wrong. This is a coping with infidelity forum. This isn't a cuckold website. 

She chose to stay after knowing what she stayed with. I do agree that they were young and youngsters do things differently.

However now they are grown adults, she took him back, stayed with him, had a family. Committed to him through marriage. 

No cheating now. Not now, not ever.

IMO, she is now having regrets. Too bad too sad. She had her chance to move on.She didn't. 

I would have fully supported her decision if this is what she wanted 15 years ago. But not now.

If people are willing to support her actions to see other guys, then they would be willing to support every person who reconciled's decision to cheat in the future.

I can't stomach that.

Yes, maybe he needs to pine for her from here on out and it seems like he's doing that. He sees the errors in his ways in the past.

But I can't support cheating in any way, shape of fashion.

She and him need to stay loyal from here on out and maybe she needs to see an IC to deal with this but now, nor anytime, is it acceptable to cheat.

otherwise, the last 15 years or so have been a fraud and so now he is a victim.

I agree with you, TRY, like usual.

Cheating is wrong and asking for open marriage is wrong IMO too, especially after building a life like they did.


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## wmn1

ConanHub said:


> Well....
> 
> To defeat your enemies, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women!>


Thanks for this Patton. 

I love it


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## Tiggy!

wmn1 said:


> Any time open marriage is asked for, to me it's wrong.
> 
> It is wrong because they have an established marriage with values and now she wants to change that or is considering that.
> 
> He was wrong at one point. I get that. However, now is not the time to change the rules of the game and subject this guy to that.


She hasn't asked for a open marriage (yet anyway), that's something fabricated by members on this forum.
She's contemplated separating.




> She petty much forgave him and had a family. Now is not the time to change the rules and screw him over IMO


Her getting married doesn't mean she forgave him.
She was a 19 year old with no other experience than being cheated on left, right and centre (with family who's told her stay with the OP because no other man would want her, doesn't sound like she was raised to have much worth), I mean she sleeping with the op when she hated the him to try to curb his cheating,that's not exactly someone with healthy self esteem.

The situation isn't exactly the same as a adult woman who has worked through infidelity, forgave and married her partner and then had a family. The op and his wife already had a family when they married (and I'm doubtful she would have married the op if she didn't already have children with him).

I agree she could really benefit with some IC, hopefully one day she will be open to the idea.


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## lifeistooshort

wmn1 said:


> Any time open marriage is asked for, to me it's wrong.
> 
> It is wrong because they have an established marriage with values and now she wants to change that or is considering that.
> 
> He was wrong at one point. I get that. However, now is not the time to change the rules of the game and subject this guy to that.
> 
> She petty much forgave him and had a family. Now is not the time to change the rules and screw him over IMO


 She hasn't asked for an open marriage. He's confirmed that himself. 


When you cheat there's always a risk it could rear it's head down the road. Don't like it? Don't cheat.


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## Primrose

wmn1 said:


> Look, IMO, she forgave his infidelities. Now that they have overcome that, she had her chance to move on but instead stood by him and stayed with him


I can't help but to wonder..

OP has stated that he was continuously cheating through his teen years.

When your wife married you at the young age of 19, I assume the cheating had just recently ceased.

Was your wife privy to ALL of you past transgressions when she said 'I do'? Or did she only learn the true extent of your serial cheating AFTER she married you? I only ask because I am trying to understand her better. 

I had one affair on my ex-husband and it ruined him. We separated for a year, got back together, had two more children and 7 MORE years together.. but he could never let it go (and he went on to pursue a couple revenge affairs in the process). It was continuously eating at him.

If, by chance, your wife only came to know the full truth AFTER she made her vows, then I can see why she's still struggling to this day.

I do not believe that this gives her the right to look elsewhere, FWIW- but it does give better insight into the continuous heartache she must feel.


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## FieryHairedLady

Oh wow Primrose.  Sad story.


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## Primrose

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> Oh wow Primrose.  Sad story.


It is. I live with immense guilt for what I did to him and it took me years to understand the magnitude of his pain. I went the rest of my marriage feeling like I deserved everything he did back to me. In the end, though, he left me for someone else (a marriage counselor, of all types). That relationship crumbled within a year (ironically, just after our divorce was finalized) because there was no more chase for her. By that point I was cautiously entering into my first relationship (13 months after he left; 4 months post divorce). Next month will be our two year 'anniversary', he proposed to me two weeks ago, and my ex-H and I actually have a very solid, cordial co-parenting relationship. Ex-H has been dating another woman for just over a year now. She's an incredible woman who is amazing with our 3 children. 

I guess you can say there's a happy ending in my story. Anyways, I apologize for the thread jack. Maybe I should go update my 3 year old thread. I stopped posting on it very early on because I was new here and could not handle the 2x4's back then.


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## ken_24

jma8 said:


> My wife and I have been together for 20 years. We started a kid-relationship at 12 and we’ve stayed together since. My wife has only been with me. I’m her only relationship, only man she’s had sex with, only man she’s kissed, dated, etc. It’s not the same for me, which is entirely my fault. I have cheated on my wife, it was during our teenage years but cheating is cheating. I don’t think my wife would have stayed with me during that time if we didn’t have kids (we had our first child at 13 and second at 17) and if she had self-worth. I have been faithful to her for the last 13 years. We were doing very well from 2011-2016. My wife stopped bringing up my cheating, we were happy and getting along, things were going well for us. My wife finished university, I took over a family business, we built a house, we expanded our family. We both felt like we finally got to where we wanted to be and worked hard to get to.
> 
> For the last year things have been a bit rocky. Our oldest is in university and decided to transfer and move across the country, it’s been hard on my wife. My other child (not with my wife) started university this fall and having to pay for that brought up things from the past. My wife has had a higher sex drive, she’s bought more toys lately, been using them more, I’ve seen porn use on her computer. Our sex life has increased (though we’ve always had a good sex life), but she has also started using toys before, during and or after which is new for her. She’s showing interest in other things that she previously hasn’t. She has started bringing up that I’ve been with far more people than she has, got to experience other people while she’s only been with me. A few times that has led to her saying that she wants to see other people. That she regrets letting the cheating “slip under the rug”, which I don’t think she did. That she regrets not seeing other people when I was. She is very hot and cold at times. She hasn’t cheated, nor do I think she would. She has brought up separation and divorce, but hasn’t followed through. Knowing her, I don’t think she’d actually ever go through with being with another man. She’s shy and quiet, she doesn’t even keep many friends. She gets quite a bit of attention from men, but always shys away from it.
> 
> Could this just be a phase? Or is it something to be as worried about as I am? “Mid”life crisis come early (we’re 32)?
> 
> Sorry, tried to keep it as short as I could. :|



Personally, I think it's a phase and will only go away if you both work on it together. By seeing other people, does she mean she wants an open relationship, a threesome, swinging? From I can understand, she'll never cheat or leave you, but I do think it's a cry for attention and you need to have a sit down with her. There's clearly a problem and you both need to talk it over and save your relationship. Maybe she wants to go out, party and have fun with you. Whatever you do and as long as it's safe, support her because that's what she wants from you. However, if she plans to date other men this is unacceptable unless you both agreed to a certain lifestyle.


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## EvilLoveBug

Sounds to me she has been responsible for you and kids it's time things should be about her. She just wants to be desired and. Feel sexy and I'm guessing you have taken her for granted..shes home and taking care of kids sounds like you are the happy one.
Are her porn selection seem out of this world to you but behind all them dirty men having sex with a girl there is desire . is that what made you have a meaningless affair right? You was horny for the other person you remeber why? Well Thats what your wife wants to feel and for her to feel that let her do things she wants and dont make her feel foolish ...I'm guessing u all about what seems correct and u forgotten to be young...oh wait u are young and so is she....
Good luck


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## FieryHairedLady

Primrose said:


> It is. I live with immense guilt for what I did to him and it took me years to understand the magnitude of his pain. I went the rest of my marriage feeling like I deserved everything he did back to me. In the end, though, he left me for someone else (a marriage counselor, of all types). That relationship crumbled within a year (ironically, just after our divorce was finalized) because there was no more chase for her. By that point I was cautiously entering into my first relationship (13 months after he left; 4 months post divorce). Next month will be our two year 'anniversary', he proposed to me two weeks ago, and my ex-H and I actually have a very solid, cordial co-parenting relationship. Ex-H has been dating another woman for just over a year now. She's an incredible woman who is amazing with our 3 children.
> 
> I guess you can say there's a happy ending in my story. Anyways, I apologize for the thread jack. Maybe I should go update my 3 year old thread. I stopped posting on it very early on because I was new here and could not handle the 2x4's back then.


I pmed you.


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## SunCMars

Primrose said:


> It is. I live with immense guilt for what I did to him and it took me years to understand the magnitude of his pain. I went the rest of my marriage feeling like I deserved everything he did back to me. In the end, though, he left me for someone else (a marriage counselor, of all types). That relationship crumbled within a year (ironically, just after our divorce was finalized) because there was no more chase for her. By that point I was cautiously entering into my first relationship (13 months after he left; 4 months post divorce). Next month will be our two year 'anniversary', he proposed to me two weeks ago, and my ex-H and I actually have a very solid, cordial co-parenting relationship. Ex-H has been dating another woman for just over a year now. She's an incredible woman who is amazing with our 3 children.
> 
> I guess you can say there's a happy ending in my story. Anyways, I apologize for the thread jack. Maybe I should go update my 3 year old thread. I stopped posting on it very early on because I was new here and *could not handle the 2x4's back then.*


Ah, yes. It gets worse.

As we age, as we mature...

We drive 4d x 4-in nails into our heads.

Drive our four by four, two legged bods, into the bog, our tires spinning madly.
Madly those tires spin, tiredly we spin our mistakes. Hoping for closure, that outcome received gladly.

Alas, we remain in the same spot, as before, same spot that youth left us. We, us, not a bit jolly.
No traction equals no forward motion, no reversing the error, just motionless.
Large jets of mud sailing in the air, witnessing the folly.


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## SunCMars

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> I pmed you.


As is usual for a mad man.
I pm'ed the pump.

Primed it, too.

......................................................................................

On this, these/those words of curiosity.
She does not want another man, another lover.

She wants the old one, the existing man to reassure her.
She is scratching your ears, stretching your faith.

She wants to hear from you, "CEASE". 
She wants to hear from you. "No, you will not think these thoughts, you need not".
She wants to hear that you are her's forever, will love her forever. Only this shall give her PEACE.

She is looking to break your ice, give her existence meaning.
She is telling you what she needs, she does not want to divorce, for you to be gone.
She wants you to be present. She wants you to give her what some other men would likely give her.

A little sex, a lot of gratitude. A lot of romantic latitude.
She wants romance, kind words, a smile. 
She wants no more doubt.

Hold her tight........... against her will.
Her will is a hungry woman, hungry for love.

A women in her thirties is a hard one to keep.
You must feed that sweet bird in her head. Feed it song and light cheer.
Feed it often, her feelings are now deep.


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## FieryHairedLady

SunCMars said:


> As is usual for a mad man.
> I pm'ed the pump.
> 
> Primed it, too.
> 
> ......................................................................................
> 
> On this, these/those words of curiosity.
> She does not want another man, another lover.
> 
> She wants the old one, the existing man to reassure her.
> She is scratching your ears, stretching your faith.
> 
> She wants to hear from you, "CEASE".
> She wants to hear from you. "No, you will not think these thoughts, you need not".
> She wants to hear that you are her's forever, will love her forever. Only this shall give her PEACE.
> 
> She is looking to break your ice, give her existence meaning.
> She is telling you what she needs, she does not want to divorce, for you to be gone.
> She wants you to be present. She wants you to give her what some other men would likely give her.
> 
> A little sex, a lot of gratitude. A lot of romantic latitude.
> She wants romance, kind words, a smile.
> She wants no more doubt.
> 
> Hold her tight........... against her will.
> Her will is a hungry woman, hungry for love.
> 
> A women in her thirties is a hard one to keep.
> You must feed that sweet bird in her head. Feed it song and light cheer.
> Feed it often, her feelings are now deep.


Hi,

I am not sure what you are trying to say? I pm'ed (private messaged) her so I didn't thread jack.


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## SunCMars

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am not sure what you are trying to say? I pm'ed (private messaged) her so I didn't thread jack.


I know!

I mixed your thread jack into the brew.
Gave You, TAM, OP, his due.

Sometimes I pump too hard.
The noise and the bladder-clatter drown out the words.
Hence, they sound like jello-ed blather. Not words from a Bard.

Sorry, Dear..

suffer not this Fool.


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## wmn1

lifeistooshort said:


> She hasn't asked for an open marriage. He's confirmed that himself.
> 
> 
> When you cheat there's always a risk it could rear it's head down the road. Don't like it? Don't cheat.


No don't like an ugly head showing up down the road ? then don't forgive and reconcile like she did. Divorce and move on.

His cheating didn't give her a free pass down the road whenever she chose to do so. And BTW, his cheating happened in teen years. She wants to explore in her 30s. Different ballgame altogether

She wants to separate to explore with other men. To me, that's open marriage


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