# Going to church does NOT magically fix everything.



## Cee Paul

It's no secret my wife and I are having problems and have been for about two years now, and we both have married friends that go to church regularly who suggest it's because we do not go to church and that if we did........we would probably not be having these problems.


Ehhhh - WRONG; and so with that line of thinking then WHY do some of the pastors themselves cheat on their wives, and WHY do a lot of the people in the congregation struggle with their marriages even though they're regular church goers???


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## Mavash.

I tried the church route to fix my life and my marriage. Even spent several years taking women's bible studies on what to do. None of it worked. I believe spirituality is important but you can't get that just by going to church on Sundays. 

My marriage is good now and I no longer attend church. I believe in God and am very spiritual. Organized religion just isn't for me.


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## Hope1964

SO true. My parents are quite religious and church is their answer to everything. Drives me batty.

I agree spirituality is important, but going to church does not = spirituality. Spirituality is something I need to focus on more in my life. My hubby has become more spiritual since joining SAA and handing things over to a higher power. I need to find something for myself along the same lines I think. Something in nature perhaps - I have been drawn to pagan and aboriginal teachings lately.


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## Amplexor

It never has and never will. Many reach out for help in times of trouble in their personal lives. It is not a fix all and going to worship every week has nothing to do with the rest of their time. It is how people live their lives that is important, not that they attend a weekly service and throw a few bucks in the offertory.

While I am a practicing Catholic, my relationship with God is much more important to me than my relationship with the Church. During our marital crisis, I did attend Mass more often but the real help came from prayer. Not praying for a magic pill but praying for forgiveness in my errors in not attending properly to the needs of the marriage. Praying for my wife to make the right decisions in regards to our recovery. Praying for guidance in the moves I made to try and steer the marriage back to calmer waters. And most important prayed for my children should the marriage fail. Faith had a lot to do with our recovery and that is why it is in my signature line. Early on in R I experienced a Devinne Intervention. There is literally no other way to interpret it and it had a profound impact on how I moved forward. The road was still tough but it gave me a greater insight as to where we were and what we needed to do to recover. Going to church in itself does nothing, but faith can be of great inspiration, comfort and guidance.


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## arbitrator

Looks like I'm in total agreement with all of you. No! Going to Church does not magically offer a quick fix to anything. And most church members will be the first to admit that. 

Going to church only gives you association with other members there, some of them Christian. And yes, the Church does open its doors to non-Christians also, in the hope that they, in time, might find salvation and that they might find what it is that they are truly searching for.

The Church only offers self-introspection. It can teach by example and by the experience of those people who have come to embrace the unending love of Christ. But the main impetus is placed upon the individual to read the Word, and then walk the walk. It's much the same thing as going to a marriage counselor might do~ without inner soul-searching, the advice that they offer might actually fall on deaf, fearful, or unbelieving ears. The same holds true in reading a self-help book, attending a self-help seminar, et. al..

The only thing that will truly offer "a fix" to your problem is *"you!" *The Church, the Pastor, the Christian educators, the members, your counselor, or even the book that you're reading are only placed there as aids/tools in trying to offer some benefit to you. After that, the rest is solely left up to the individual!

It's greatly a matter of just how much of your heart that you are truly willing to extend!


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## Blanca

Cee Paul said:


> we both have married friends that go to church regularly who suggest it's because we do not go to church and that if we did........we would probably not be having these problems.


Eh can't stand those kinds of people; so ignorant.


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## Cee Paul

I am a strong believer in God and was a regular church goer in my younger days while going through some other personal struggles, but about 8-9 years ago I just decided I wasn't going to go anymore and chose to worship and pray to God in a more private setting...........alone.


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## arbitrator

Cee Paul said:


> I am a strong believer in God and was a regular church goer in my younger days while going through some other personal struggles, but about 8-9 years ago I just decided I wasn't going to go anymore and chose to worship and pray to God in a more private setting...........alone.



And as a Church member, I can greatly respect your stance. After all, it is not the Church or its membership that is going to get you to heaven; nor it your good earthly works and deeds, or even your Pastor. That is solely determined by your relationship with the Heavenly Father through His Son. Naturally, God would much rather see you in a position of associating with other Christians, but if you are truly in Him, then whether or not you attend Church makes absolutely no difference.

I now feel equal peace whether I'm in Church, at home, or out in nature. In earlier years, like you, I did not. But you sound very much the same way.

God's Peace to you always!


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## Cee Paul

arbitrator said:


> And as a Church member, I can greatly respect your stance. After all, it is not the Church or its membership that is going to get you to heaven; nor it your good earthly works and deeds, or even your Pastor. That is solely determined by your relationship with the Heavenly Father through His Son. Naturally, God would much rather see you in a position of associating with other Christians, but if you are truly in Him, then whether or not you attend Church makes absolutely no difference.
> 
> I now feel equal peace whether I'm in Church, at home, or out in nature. In earlier years, like you, I did not. But you sound very much the same way.
> 
> God's Peace to you always!


Thanks I appreciate that; and growing up I was raised by two parents who were devout christians and raised us in the church, and then as a young adult I was also going on my own up until about 2003-04. That is when I decided I can do this on my own and can still stay connected with God at the same time.


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## Lon

I went to sunday school as a child while my mom attended the sermon. My dad didn't attend church but is a christian. In my teens and adulthood I have never been religious or churchgoing, for a little while around the time I met my W I was looking for some kind of spiritual guidance. When I first started dating my W she attended church, and always went along with church customs but expressed some doubts. After we were engaged and moved to another city for my job we tried a couple churches but were both dissatisfied and stopped going. It felt like a big relief to both of us to not have to subscribe to organized religion. I myself have become more comfortable with not identifying as a christian (though I don't bring this topic up to my mom for fear of breaking her heart) I appreciate the morals and wisdom in the bible and take it as allegory, but I refuse to accept it is the only way to heaven, enlightenment, god, the universe whatever.

Now we are divorced and each have our son half the time, he often talks about my ex going to church. Maybe I lead her away from her spiritual beliefs. A Christian would say its the husbands job to lead his W in Christ, if that is what she needed I couldn't do it for her - but AFAIK that isn't the reason at all my marriage ended, it was because she needed to find lots of rock hard c0ck from confident studs at the bar. So if she finds herself in church I guess that is healthier than doing it at a club, a little.


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## arbitrator

Lon said:


> A Christian would say that its the husband's job to lead his wife in Christ...


Actually, in Ephesians, the Bible does say that the husband is the spiritual leader for the wife.

In my situation, my STBXW initially said that she wanted that, but when I made intonations about her attending my Church, she threw a fly in the ointment saying that she was so much more of a devout and educated Christian than I ever was and that she was not about to leave her faith for mine. So I relented, attending her Church. While there were certainly some good Christian people there, I suffered because I could not accept or adopt their main theology and beliefs. My wife didn't really seem to care, so I attended my own faith's Church alone a couple of times where we lived and she literally blew a gasket about it saying that the passage from Ephesians was just an old parable and she could worship anywhere she wanted to. So I just quit going to church until after the commencement of the separation.

And once again, I have found myself in the midst of people who love Christ the way I do and the way I was brought up to do. And if I ever choose to get married again, I think that I will be so much more proactive in helping to direct my future spouses spirituality.


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## Gaia

arbitrator said:


> Actually, in Ephesians, the Bible does say that the husband is the spiritual leader for the wife.
> 
> In my situation, my STBXW initially said that she wanted that, but when I made intonations about her attending my Church, she threw a fly in the ointment saying that she was so much more of a devout and educated Christian than I ever was and that she was not about to leave her faith for mine. So I relented, attending her Church. While there were certainly some good Christian people there, I suffered because I could not accept or adopt their main theology and beliefs. My wife didn't really seem to care, so I attended my own faith's Church alone a couple of times where we lived and she literally blew a gasket about it saying that the passage from Ephesians was just an old parable and she could worship anywhere she wanted to. So I just quit going to church until after the commencement of the separation.
> 
> And once again, I have found myself in the midst of people who love Christ the way I do and the way I was brought up to do. And if I ever choose to get married again, I think that I will be so much more proactive in helping to direct my future spouses spirituality.


I don't think either of you need to direct the other in that matter or needed to rather... She should have respected your beliefs as you clearly respected her own. Where to attend shouldn't have been such a big issue imo.... I do hope you find someone who is more respectful and understanding of your viewpoints.


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## Goldmember357

Of course church wont fix everything. If you are a christian than you should also know that the majority of christian's are not going to heaven.

Most people are going to hell and this will include a huge number of people who call themselves "Christians" but act far from it.


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## Lon

Goldmember357 said:


> Of course church wont fix everything. If you are a christian than you should also know that the majority of christian's are not going to heaven.
> 
> Most people are going to hell and this will include a huge number of people who call themselves "Christians" but act far from it.


Comments like this are why I am relieved that I've been able to shed that fear and the religious side of it - it is also why I do not have the heart to tell my mom for she will worry herself to a excrutiating death believing my sole is going to hell.


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## Goldmember357

Lon said:


> Comments like this are why I am relieved that I've been able to shed that fear and the religious side of it - it is also why I do not have the heart to tell my mom for she will worry herself to a excrutiating death believing my sole is going to hell.


Hey i'm just speaking what allot of christian's would agree with its talked about endlessly in the bible so if you did believe in a deity and if it was the Christian god than what i said would hold weight to those people.


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## COguy

As with most things in life, you get out what you put in.

I believe church CAN be a good solution to a lot of problems, assuming that you actually get involved and build relationships and serve others and not just show up on sunday for an hour and then go home.

By putting God first, you can really experience miracles in all aspects of your life. But this has nothing to do with church attendance. There are people who put God first in their life and don't go to church, there are people who go to church and don't know God at all.

Make God a priority Monday-Sunday, love others, and let your friends believe what they want.


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## Lon

Goldmember357 said:


> Hey i'm just speaking what allot of christian's would agree with its talked about endlessly in the bible so if you did believe in a deity and if it was the Christian god than what i said would hold weight to those people.


Yes, you are correct, a lot hold that view. It kinda pits large groups against each other doesn't it, everyone telling everyone else they are going to hell. Funny thing like you mention is how unchristian many christians are, this never escaped my attention and I find it kind or ironic that even though I no longer consider myself a Christian in the church sense of the word I strive to act more Christlike than many who call themselves Christians.


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## Cee Paul

Goldmember357 said:


> Of course church wont fix everything. If you are a christian than you should also know that the majority of christian's are not going to heaven.
> 
> Most people are going to hell and this will include a huge number of people who call themselves "Christians" but act far from it.


That's a pretty blanket statement and I do not belong to any church or particular religion and now follow my own beliefs, so I would have to exclude myself from that group of hell goers.


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## Dollystanford

I'm an atheist but I try to be a decent person who treats people with respect and avoids hurting others

if some of my lifestyle choices make christians believe I should go to hell then so be it, at least I'll be able to smoke down there


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## DownUnder

Going to church every week is not going to fix your problem in life.
You need to have a personal relationship with God to have the right perspective and be guided by His Words in everything you do.


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## Cee Paul

Dollystanford said:


> I'm an atheist but I try to be a decent person who treats people with respect and avoids hurting others
> 
> if some of my lifestyle choices make christians believe I should go to hell then so be it, at least I'll be able to smoke down there


Ohhhh you'll be able to smoke alright....more like you'll BE smoking while those flames are lighting you up - lol!! :rofl:


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## lovelygirl

Cee Paul said:


> It's no secret my wife and I are having problems and have been for about two years now, and we both have married friends that go to church regularly who suggest it's because we do not go to church and that if we did........we would probably not be having these problems.
> 
> 
> Ehhhh - WRONG; and so with that line of thinking then WHY do some of the pastors themselves cheat on their wives, and WHY do a lot of the people in the congregation struggle with their marriages even though they're regular church goers???


Church doesn't mean anything.
Just because you believe in God doesn't mean you'll have a perfect marriage. You can still be an atheist and have a great marriage.
It all depends on the couple and how much they love each other.
Usually Church has got nothing to do with this and sometimes it could be just another step towards hypocrisy.


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## RandomDude

You can attend all the sermons you wish but in the end the only change will always come from you folks yourselves as a couple

You have to find your own individual truth, something both me and my wife (in the past) has done


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## arbitrator

lovelygirl said:


> Church doesn't mean anything.
> Just because you believe in God doesn't mean you'll have a perfect marriage. You can still be an atheist and have a great marriage.
> It all depends on the couple and how much they love each other.
> Usually Church has got nothing to do with this and sometimes it could be just another step towards hypocrisy.



You are totally correct. The correlation of Christian and Church membership: believers and non-believers alike, atheists, agnostics, hypocrits, you name it: has absolutely little to no real effect upon the final outcome of a given marital relationship.

But in subjecting oneself to associating with a Church, you will, more often than not, find the marked potential to be with a largely altruistic and empathetic group of people who through the teachings of Christ often try to put themselves into position to minister to those people with problems like these. Mind you, they will absolutely not get involved unless asked to do so, and then only indirectly through counseling.

The major determinent of a successful marriage is truly what is in the hearts and souls of the married couple and their very own past experiences and perceptions of that relationship, albeit through those personal experiences, or perhaps those of family and friends, but most unfortunately, from the acceptance and lethargy, largely of the social media.

With rare exception, the Church is absolutely not going to be the saving factor of a marriage, But the mere association with Christians and Church folk and the acceptance of the teachings therein will do so much more to foster that married couples heart and soul, moreso than all of the other aforementioned entities combined!


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## Cee Paul

Back when I was attending church regularly I witnessed and heard about sooooo many people who would praise - worship - and have a great time at church, but then after Sunday go right back to their demons and their sinning ways and used church as a cleansing place _once_ a week for 2 hours(myself included in all that).

To me that is like taking a class once a week and then throwing out your books and your notes the other 6 days.


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## arbitrator

Cee Paul said:


> Back when I was attending church regularly I witnessed and heard about sooooo many people who would praise - worship - and have a great time at church, but then after Sunday go right back to their demons and their sinning ways and used church as a cleansing place _once_ a week for 2 hours(myself included in all that).
> 
> To me that is like taking a class once a week and then throwing out your books and your notes the other 6 days.


That's a great analogy, Cee Paul! It's much like my pastor said in a sermon once about there being some 168 hours within the scope of a week and that the pews had more than its fair share of those "1 hour per week Christians," who journeyed to Church for that one hour to try to make themselves feel better, but by the time that they have returned back home, they find themselves in the same old rut, only to see themselves heading right back to the church house for yet another hour the ensuing week.

Not only is Church about hearing and receiving the word of God, but it is to take that wisdom and use it to minister to others. As our pastor said, we are all called to minister in some shape, form, or fashion primarily to those who have demonstrated the need to be ministered to. We may not know it, or even care to acknowledge it, but we all have a personal special calling in whatever our vocation or avocation, hobby, or other interests may be. You could even say that our being here on TAM is a form of ministry as we try to offer advise, empathy and love to those who are all too often, so much more worse-off than even we could ever imagine.

It is our job to witness to them about Christ and to offer spiritual and emotional assistance whenever we can. That's what church membership is supposed to be all about; which is far different than just being a place for us to go and hear the word of God and feel good about it. It's greatly about taking that word, and translating it into helping others who really don't know what true love and caring is all about!


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## Heheals

I think this stems from the confusion of why people go to church. I go to church for christian fellowship and worship. It helps us draw closer to the family of God and God himself. 

It allows us to bring all our worries and cares to the feet of God in worship, and helps us to separate from this world, reminding us of where we belong. It also helps us face the coming week.

It doesn't take care of all our problems, if it did, no christian would ever face any problems in this world. It can, however, remind us of how to face a situation with a christ-like attitude. We are still responsible for taking that step and making it reality though. 

Many go to church and then just live like the rest of the world the rest of the week. But no, going to church will not fix everything. However, giving our battles and our cares to God will help us face this world and give us the wisdom in how to deal with the situations we face. That is a choice we make personally, and is not about going to church.


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## Kurosity

I have gotten this same advise.

"Go to church with your husband it will make you marriage better and your family stronger." Really? I grew up not going to church have a very strong close family and my parents have been together for 39 years despite all their marriage problems and not once did they attend church together.(dad is LDS and mom is Methodist)

Now I am not saying attending church is not good for couples and families I am just saying it is not a fix for marriage problems and if I really wanted to use Sunday to save my marriage and make it stronger then we would not be stuck in a building for hours listening to services, singing hymns, and checking off scriptures in our bibles. No we would be out doing an activity together where we would be able to talk, interact, laugh, and heck get a little hot and heavy if we wanted to. 
I know people who have meet their affair partner at church and that tells me it is no better a place for a marriage then any where else.


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## Kurosity

Heheals said:


> I think this stems from the confusion of why people go to church. I go to church for christian fellowship and worship. It helps us draw closer to the family of God and God himself.
> 
> It allows us to bring all our worries and cares to the feet of God in worship, and helps us to separate from this world, reminding us of where we belong. It also helps us face the coming week.
> 
> It doesn't take care of all our problems, if it did, no christian would ever face any problems in this world. It can, however, remind us of how to face a situation with a christ-like attitude. We are still responsible for taking that step and making it reality though.
> 
> Many go to church and then just live like the rest of the world the rest of the week. But no, going to church will not fix everything. However, giving our battles and our cares to God will help us face this world and give us the wisdom in how to deal with the situations we face. That is a choice we make personally, and is not about going to church.


 The Sunday warrior= living right on Sunday and forgetting the rest of the week?


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## Heheals

Kurosity said:


> The Sunday warrior= living right on Sunday and forgetting the rest of the week?


Another name is "sunday christian". That is sadly a huge part of the population that attends church.


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## Married in VA

Church provides the knowledge and foundation off of which many problems can be solved. You must put the knowledge of GOD's word into action in your life. Faith without deeds is useless. Many people believe in GOD and attend church every Sunday. That is a good start, but more must be done. On the same level, I know people who are outright pagan types. They are great, honest people with whom I enjoy good friendship and they work hard and are morally upright. Just attending church will provide a basis on which you can build. As stated above, you must get to know people and build true, deep, and genuine friendships there. After that then serve others and you will see yourself improve. Others will notice including your spouse. When you put your spouse's needs before your own, wonderful things start to happen. As I found out though, there are pitfalls along the way and my WW's regular church attendance did not stop her from falling into a life of sin.


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## Cee Paul

One of the biggest things that drove me away was all the hipocrites that attend church, because I don't need anyone laying hands on me and praying while the life they live at home is a total joke and nothing God would approve of(so they need to lay those hands on themselves).


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## romantic_guy

No, it does not fix everything. However, Jesus said, "Follow me...". If you go to a church that teaches the principles of grace, forgiving as He forgives, loving others unconditionally, etc., it can make a difference in relationships. That is IF you are a follower of Jesus. So many that go to church miss that. The greatest commandment is to love God and love others. That includes your wife, husband, children, neighbors (even if they are gay, Muslim, atheist...) and your enemies.


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## Gaia

romantic_guy said:


> No, it does not fix everything. However, Jesus said, "Follow me...". If you go to a church that teaches the principles of grace, forgiving as He forgives, loving others unconditionally, etc., it can make a difference in relationships. That is IF you are a follower of Jesus. So many that go to church miss that. The greatest commandment is to love God and love others. That includes your wife, husband, children, neighbors (even if they are gay, Muslim, atheist...) and your enemies.


If I remember right.. jesus never attended a church.. nor did he push church attendance upon others. This... "the principles of grace, forgiving as He forgives, loving others unconditionally, etc." is what he meant for others to follow... aka his way of life i think.. I dunno I could be wrong, it's been awhile since I've actually read a bible but I'm pretty sure the "Follow me" meant.. "Follow my teachings, my ways, ect"


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## Cee Paul

Gaia said:


> If I remember right.. jesus never attended a church.. nor did he push church attendance upon others. This... "the principles of grace, forgiving as He forgives, loving others unconditionally, etc." is what he meant for others to follow... aka his way of life i think.. I dunno I could be wrong, it's been awhile since I've actually read a bible but I'm pretty sure the "Follow me" meant.. "Follow my teachings, my ways, ect"


Church for Jesus was him sitting on a rock and teaching the word of God freely for anyone that wanted to listen, and he always asked for NOTHING in return.


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## Gaia

Thats what I mean.. which is why I don't get how SOME people think it's a MUST to go into a fancy decorated temple to worship their god when jesus never did right? I think to many people put to much importance into attending a church rather then actually following the teachings of their faith.


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## Gaia

too much**


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## Cee Paul

Gaia said:


> Thats what I mean.. which is why I don't get how SOME people think it's a MUST to go into a fancy decorated temple to worship their god when jesus never did right? I think to many people put to much importance into attending a church rather then actually following the teachings of their faith.


It was reported that he was offered all kinds of things like bags of gold, clothing, animals, etc for his teachings; but the only thing he ever accepted was a free meal and ONLY if he was allowed to bless that meal to where the family that offered it would never go hungry again.


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## Gaia

It seems that alot of people forget this... when I went to churches in the past as a child and teen the majority were all about donations and attendance and how everyone else was wrong and they were right. It just seems as if they twisted what was suppose to be moral and good to their own benefit.. There was only two churches i have ever been to in my life that weren't hypocrytical like that and these churches were small and not fancy or impressive... but the people were kind, considerate, joyful, ect.


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## Cee Paul

If I ever decide to go back to church(and that's a big "IF")it will be some small modest hole in the wall place that teaches and preaches the basics only, and a place where I can go and find peace and quiet without all the *lights - camera - action* type of stuff going on.


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## Married in VA

The purpose behind church is to worship GOD and enjoy fellowship with like minded believers. Being a human organization, no church will ever be perfect. There will always be some that think they are better, some who believe they are right and all others are wrong, etc. There is only 1 judge who can tell who is right and wrong. If you read the bible and apply is principals to your OWN life, love others in spite of themselves, forgive others their wrongs even if they don't forgive you, and improve yourself then you are getting the point of church attendance. The buliding/temple does NOT save you, only faith in Jesus saves you. The rest is pretty much up to the individual so long as you are not living in deliberate sin.
Also, instead of going to a church, you can conduct church in your own home which is an example set in the New Testament. Thoughts?


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## Cee Paul

Married in VA said:


> The purpose behind church is to worship GOD and enjoy fellowship with like minded believers. Being a human organization, no church will ever be perfect. There will always be some that think they are better, some who believe they are right and all others are wrong, etc. There is only 1 judge who can tell who is right and wrong. If you read the bible and apply is principals to your OWN life, love others in spite of themselves, forgive others their wrongs even if they don't forgive you, and improve yourself then you are getting the point of church attendance. The buliding/temple does NOT save you, only faith in Jesus saves you. The rest is pretty much up to the individual so long as you are not living in deliberate sin.
> Also, instead of going to a church, you can conduct church in your own home which is an example set in the New Testament. Thoughts?


I now conduct my relationship with God in a personal and very private setting and have for the past 9-10 years now, and it's what I have become very comfortable with.


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## Heheals

The other thing about church is that it helps us be accountable to a fellowship of believers. They can help keep us on the straight and narrow which is much easier when we have fellow support and someone to journey with along the way. It's almost like taking an ember out of the fire. Leave it out for too long and the ember dies out, put it back in the fire and it grows bright again. It won't stop problems from rising up, but it helps strengthen us in our walk. Knowing we aren't alone on the journey.


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## Cee Paul

Heheals said:


> The other thing about church is that it helps us be accountable to a fellowship of believers. They can help keep us on the straight and narrow which is much easier when we have fellow support and someone to journey with along the way. It's almost like taking an ember out of the fire. Leave it out for too long and the ember dies out, put it back in the fire and it grows bright again. It won't stop problems from rising up, but it helps strengthen us in our walk. Knowing we aren't alone on the journey.


As a grown 46 year old adult I don't miss that at all where other church members are always trying to be up in your business - good intentions or not, and always trying to find out WHY you missed last Sunday's service and stuff like that. To me it's none of their business and the only one I should ever be accountable to for that and have to answer to is.......GOD himself.


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## noelle

I am probably not following the rules; I didn't read all three pages. In my humble opinion, you are confusing church and religion. Being a "Sunday Christian" is not going to solve any of your problems. It doesn't matter if you go to church every single Sunday and sit there playing on your phone or daydreaming the entire time. What is most important is having Christ present in your marriage. If he wasn't before, do not despair! It is never too late! The beauty of church is that sometimes, when you are praying for God to speak to you, He will answer by having the sermon you attend study a certain piece of scripture that speaks to your heart. Also, if you find that your church doesn't suit your needs, go church shopping!


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## noelle

noelle said:


> d sit there playing on your phone or daydreaming the entire time. What is most important is having Christ present in your marriage.


Whoops! Present in your life! Jesus wants to know you and in turn you, Him. That's most important.


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## Cee Paul

noelle said:


> Whoops! Present in your life! Jesus wants to know you and in turn you, Him. That's most important.


Maybe you should've read a little more about my history with churches and my relationship with God Noelle, because I grew up in the church - broke away and went hell raising for several years - returned back to a few different churches trying each one out - then decided back in like 2003-04 to go back out on my own and worship privately under MY rules. And yes I have read the bible front to back at least twice, so I am well knowledged of anything and everything you are attempting to tell me about or sell me on - but thanks anyway.


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## noelle

Cee Paul said:


> Maybe you should've read a little more about my history with churches and my relationship with God Noelle, because I grew up in the church - broke away and went hell raising for several years - returned back to a few different churches trying each one out - then decided back in like 2003-04 to go back out on my own and worship privately under MY rules. And yes I have read the bible front to back at least twice, so I am well knowledged of anything and everything you are attempting to tell me about or sell me on - but thanks anyway.


You definitely have the upper hand on me. I have yet to read the bible front to back despite my love for His word and of reading (I can only handle the Old Testament in small doses before my head starts spinning.) I apologize if I have offended you. Perhaps I did not properly express myself. I don't believe that going to church has a direct effect on where you end up. It works for me and helps to give me new perspectives. I also do not agree with your friends who told you that was the reason for your marriage failing. Either way, I pray that your situation works out. It hurts just as much whether you are sitting in a pew or at home. Best of luck to you!


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## Cee Paul

noelle said:


> You definitely have the upper hand on me. I have yet to read the bible front to back despite my love for His word and of reading (I can only handle the Old Testament in small doses before my head starts spinning.) I apologize if I have offended you. Perhaps I did not properly express myself. I don't believe that going to church has a direct effect on where you end up. It works for me and helps to give me new perspectives. I also do not agree with your friends who told you that was the reason for your marriage failing. Either way, I pray that your situation works out. It hurts just as much whether you are sitting in a pew or at home. Best of luck to you!


Thank you and no offense taken.


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## SimplyAmorous

Cee Paul said:


> It's no secret my wife and I are having problems and have been for about two years now, and we both have married friends that go to church regularly who suggest it's because we do not go to church and that if we did........we would probably not be having these problems.
> 
> 
> Ehhhh - WRONG; and so with that line of thinking then WHY do some of the pastors themselves cheat on their wives, and WHY do a lot of the people in the congregation struggle with their marriages even though they're regular church goers???


Speaking purely from my own experience here... when I was that Christian or TRIED to be ...I was not really in touch with who I was meant to be...Something was caged..... I was hiding behind fears as to try to please a God...... I would get on my husband for not reading his bible, drag him to church 3 times a week (he could care less, all he wanted was more sex !)....and there I was .....sexually repressed.....I was embarrassed of my own husband seeing me naked... even buying lingerie I associated with strippers, oral sex with porn.. where did all of this come [email protected]#$%^& 

I can't hook it all on GOD, but I can point to Hell & damnation teachings where I felt I needed to OBEY (which is better than sacrifice so some teach)... just to remain that Good girl somehow ....to make it into Heaven. 

Now that I lost my religion and feel FREE to use my mind ...without automatic guilt , shame and judgement....if I enjoy a soap opera, a Rated R movie, some Heavy Metal - to openly question ....

Let's just say.. I am a new woman....happier, more bubbly, I laugh more, less judgemental, less fear, like a heaviness has been lifted ....our marriage has climbed to newer heights also....... darn I wish we could go back in time and re-do much of what we missed -due to those retarted hangups I allowed screw with my head.....

I near despise the .....we are all born wretched sinners / we deserve hell teachings I heard growing up ....Somehow I could never see this as Good news... 

*I understand my perceptive was all wrong ...what I had was a nice big dose of RELIGION going on....that is the problem with too many people in church. They fall into the same trap I did*. 

No... those in church are not necessarily happier ...In some cases....they may even be better at covering it up -because after all, we can't allow our sisters & brothers to stumble --by our poor example....we are instructed to represent Christ! 

Personally I think HE would rather us be Humble before him over appearng HOLY. The whole tax collector & Pharisee saying their prayers. (Luke 18) This is where the heart of God is at. 

What I personally DO apprecaite about Christianity is this.. the fellowship ... when I find those who can accept me & my husband for the decent honest people we are ....when I don't have to believe hook line & sinker as fundamentally black & white as they do.... that I can be what I am.... question what I question, enjoy what I enjoy.... I live more by my conscience than any interpretation of Holy Books these days....though I agree there is a ton of *wisdom* in that bible..I especially enjoy Proverbs & Ecclesiastes...


Not saying I got it all right, so long as we are down here, there is still lessons to be learned... searching our own hearts...and treating our spouse -like we would want to be treated ourselves ......this is what it is about ....for me.


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## sculley

I agree Church doesn't solve the problem having a relationship with God that upholds how you treat your spouse does though and sometimes Church is the gateway to get your there...just saying.


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## arbitrator

The Church alone is certainly not going to be the vehicle that's going to get you to heaven. It, along with it's members and participants, are simply instruments in leading you to richly study the word that does, in fact, lead to one's redemption, strictly through the tenants of faith and belief.

I would much rather find myself in a place that would serve to foster and nourish my spiritual growth, just as my presence and spirituality might, in some unique way, come to be of service to others. After all, God does more greatly tend to help those who help themselves and then, by their service to Him in helping others!


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## Cee Paul

I fully believe that even if my wife and I were regular church goers we would STILL be having the same problems we're having now, because we would still be the same people in the same situations.

Again all you have to look at is how many pastors that have been caught and admitted to fooling around on their spouses(male and female)or are having major problems, and not only are they involved in church every week but it's THEIR own freakin church to boot.


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## mommy22

Cee Paul said:


> I fully believe that even if my wife and I were regular church goers we would STILL be having the same problems we're having now, because we would still be the same people in the same situations.
> 
> Again all you have to look at is how many pastors that have been caught and admitted to fooling around on their spouses(male and female)or are having major problems, and not only are they involved in church every week but it's THEIR own freakin church to boot.


I can't make excuses for those who've fallen in the church. The percentage is alarming, I'll agree. I will say this, though. If not for my faith (thus spiritual growth and fellowship with others in Christ) I wouldn't have made through my own marriage. Our faith rebuilt our relationship. I've no doubt we'd be divorced now if it weren't for that. I realize that many church-going couples divorce but in my situation, and countless others, it provided strength to get us through the tough stuff.


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## Cee Paul

mommy22 said:


> I can't make excuses for those who've fallen in the church. The percentage is alarming, I'll agree. I will say this, though. If not for my faith (thus spiritual growth and fellowship with others in Christ) I wouldn't have made through my own marriage. Our faith rebuilt our relationship. I've no doubt we'd be divorced now if it weren't for that. I realize that many church-going couples divorce but in my situation, and countless others, it provided strength to get us through the tough stuff.


Oh I also believe that it DOES help some people and if so that is awesome, but in our case as soon as we left church & walked through our front doors at home it would start all over again, and I know many couples who are in the exact same situation church or no church.


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## COguy

Cee Paul said:


> Oh I also believe that it DOES help some people and if so that is awesome, but in our case as soon as we left church & walked through our front doors at home it would start all over again, and I know many couples who are in the exact same situation church or no church.


That's one thing that's very frustrating about "church" as we have today. Realistically, with the size of most churches, it's probably not going to change. Where you will see more benefit is when you get connected to small groups or activities, forming a tighter bond with fewer people.

It's in those settings where we begin to remove our facades and start talking about real issues and real problems. Only then can we get good support from our community.

Where people see hypocrisy is that they walk into church, know there's a whole bunch of issues going on, but no one talks about them. It creates the illusion of perfection. The truth is, if you knew the lives of those people, you would see a ton of hurting people. People going through divorce, infidelity, drug and alcohol addictions, runaway kids, sexual and physical abuse, etc. That stuff isn't going to come out in one hour a week in front of 100 people.


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## rankinsmedic

My first wife was devoutly religious. I went to church with her every time the doors were open, but I was miserable. When I was suffering from depression, the pastor told me I needed to get someplace alone and pray. When my marriage began to crumble due to her verbal and physical abuse, the pastor said pray. When I felt like committing suicide from the depression I was going through, the pastor said that I had a demon in my soul that was tricking me into feeling this way. I kid you not! Religion is terrible, but faith is vital! People need to have something to believe in, but that doesn't mean that Jesus is going to save your marriage. I found that out the hard way. I tried praying, but when I never heard or seen any of the results I was "assured" would come, I lost faith and hope. The church friends have their problems, trust me. When I cheated on my wife, all these men in the church came and told me how they had done the same thing, and some were even still doing it!!! I was shocked. I knew I messed up, but for them to acknowledge that they were still doing it, that killed my respect for them.


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## Cee Paul

COguy said:


> That's one thing that's very frustrating about "church" as we have today. Realistically, with the size of most churches, it's probably not going to change. Where you will see more benefit is when you get connected to small groups or activities, forming a tighter bond with fewer people.
> 
> It's in those settings where we begin to remove our facades and start talking about real issues and real problems. Only then can we get good support from our community.
> 
> Where people see hypocrisy is that they walk into church, know there's a whole bunch of issues going on, but no one talks about them. It creates the illusion of perfection. The truth is, if you knew the lives of those people, you would see a ton of hurting people. People going through divorce, infidelity, drug and alcohol addictions, runaway kids, sexual and physical abuse, etc. That stuff isn't going to come out in one hour a week in front of 100 people.



I'm just thinking that we can get a lot of the same results with a therapist or marriage counselor, which is who I've suggested that we both go see since we both have issues with church.


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## COguy

Cee Paul said:


> I'm just thinking that we can get a lot of the same results with a therapist or marriage counselor, which is who I've suggested that we both go see since we both have issues with church.


I think it's important to have a therapist/counselor/mentor that you trust. I also think that community support is a huge part of staying healthy.

I know because I'm in the middle of a poop storm right now. My family and counselor have been a big help. But I also have a group of people that love me and are checking up on me and making sure I'm doing ok at my church. That is just as important to me, especially since they have no "allegiance" to me as my family or a paid professional. There only motivation is love.

Finding a good church though is like finding a good friend. There are some pretty crappy ones out there. Some are judgemental and condemning and self-serving. I'm thankful that I have a church full of people who want to serve others.


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## Cee Paul

COguy said:


> I think it's important to have a therapist/counselor/mentor that you trust. I also think that community support is a huge part of staying healthy.
> 
> I know because I'm in the middle of a poop storm right now. My family and counselor have been a big help. But I also have a group of people that love me and are checking up on me and making sure I'm doing ok at my church. That is just as important to me, especially since they have no "allegiance" to me as my family or a paid professional. There only motivation is love.
> 
> Finding a good church though is like finding a good friend. There are some pretty crappy ones out there. Some are judgemental and condemning and self-serving. I'm thankful that I have a church full of people who want to serve others.


See that was always an issue with me while going to church is having church members all up in my business and checking on me, and I already know I don't like that and she has already said she would definitely hate something like that.


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## WillIMake36?

i have been a pastor's wife for 35 years and i can tell you all right now that church was and is the main reason why our marriage is going down the drain. if you're having problems see a therapist or counselor. don't expect church to fix it. you'll get another whole set of problems.....


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## Cee Paul

WillIMake36? said:


> i have been a pastor's wife for 35 years and i can tell you all right now that church was and is the main reason why our marriage is going down the drain. if you're having problems see a therapist or counselor. don't expect church to fix it. you'll get another whole set of problems.....


Wow - very interesting!


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## Game

I do think it's better cos our marriage was tired at the church for the first we engaged in marriage


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## arbitrator

I think that it's richly contingent upon the church that you go to, along with the pastoral direction of that church, and whether there is a set agenda there for marriage/family counseling, _per se_. I do know that a lot of the larger churches(like mine~ 1,800+) can normally budget for that, whereas the smaller, more cash-strapped churches simply cannot.

I really feel that I have gotten more out of simply having a pastor that wants to hear about my problems and willingly makes time to talk with me about it on a personal basis. Coupled with a Christian based IC, I feel that I have the best of both worlds!


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## Maricha75

arbitrator said:


> I think that it's richly contingent upon the church that you go to, along with the pastoral direction of that church, and whether there is a set agenda there for marriage/family counseling, _per se_. I do know that a lot of the larger churches(like mine~ 1,800+) can normally budget for that, whereas the smaller, more cash-strapped churches simply cannot.
> 
> I really feel that I have gotten more out of simply having a pastor that wants to hear about my problems and willingly makes time to talk with me about it on a personal basis. Coupled with a Christian based IC, I feel that I have the best of both worlds!


The funny thing is... in my experience, the smaller churches, while they don't have the budget for such things, are usually more friendly, more open. In a close-knit church, you have quite a few couples you can speak with, to try to get out of the rut..or whatever is going on in the marriage.

I know that the pastors we had were very willing to speak with us, as were the older couples. This was in the smaller churches. In the larger churches, while they had the resources, they were generally colder. Of course, a pastor is likely unable to counsel well if his own marriage is in jeopardy .... especially if he doesn't even KNOW there are problems.

I do agree with the initial post, however. Going to church doesn't magically fix everything. It takes a LOT of work to fix things. While surrounding yourself with loving, helpful couples may HELP, it doesn't fix anything. You have to be willing to put in the work yourself.


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## arbitrator

Maricha75 said:


> The funny thing is... in my experience, the smaller churches, while they don't have the budget for such things, are usually more friendly, more open. In a close-knit church, you have quite a few couples you can speak with, to try to get out of the rut..or whatever is going on in the marriage.
> 
> I know that the pastors we had were very willing to speak with us, as were the older couples. This was in the smaller churches. In the larger churches, while they had the resources, they were generally colder. Of course, a pastor is likely unable to counsel well if his own marriage is in jeopardy .... especially if he doesn't even KNOW there are problems.
> 
> I do agree with the initial post, however. Going to church doesn't magically fix everything. It takes a LOT of work to fix things. While surrounding yourself with loving, helpful couples may HELP, it doesn't fix anything. You have to be willing to put in the work yourself.


Maricha: There's a lot of truth in what you said about smaller churches. In fact, while I belong to what I call a large church, the pastor we have actually came to us from a distant rural location and he, unlike the former pastor, seems to take an active, interpersonal interest in all of our congregants. He'll be the very first to tell you of his many problems in life and how his faith in God has helped him to cope. This "country preacher"(who actually has a Phd, but refuses to be called Dr.) unselfishly impresses me as just being one of his own flock.

Now add to that that we have church-sponsored divorce support groups, family support groups, et. al.(although sparsely attended) is just icing on the cake.

But you are totally correct. It is the person who will aid you more than the organization. No question about it! But that "person" comes from the goals and the love purported by the organization itself!


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## Tony Conrad

Churches in the bible were always in houses so they couldn't have been that big. If one cannot contribute in a meeting then there is something wrong. 1 Cor 14:26 is the only verse which advises what you do in a church meeting although other verses go into that verse a little deeper. Basically everyone has. The pattern in the new testament was body ministry not platform ministry although arrangements can be made to come together to give opportunity for teaching.

If a church doesn't incorporate body ministry then how can one be built up if we are supposed to edify one another?


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## arbitrator

*And there is no fast promise that Church is going to remotely fix anything. 

But I'd much rather loosen my burdens with my Church friends who genuinely care about my welfare, much rather than those who may actually be closer to me through either family or friendship, who for whatever reason, "just don't want to get involved emotionally."

I truly feel that God never wants us to go about carrying our burdens alone!*


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## Fozzy

Going to church won't fix your relationship. However I have to say that I've started going to a church again for the first time in many years that has a very active pro-marriage agenda, meaning they're active in finding ways to teach people how to sustain their marriage before it gets into trouble. They also offer a lot of help to people who's marriages are on the rocks.

My marriage has been taking a lot of hits over the last few years--at least in my point of view. Getting a fresh point of view from my church inspired me to start making some changes in my own life, and in my own marriage. Changes that led me here to TAM in fact.

The church hasn't fixed my marriage, nor will they ever. Only I can do that. But sometimes getting some support from the right people will get you moving in the right direction, and that's what they've done for me.


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## jac70

Fozzy said:


> Going to church won't fix your relationship. However I have to say that I've started going to a church again for the first time in many years that has a very active pro-marriage agenda, meaning they're active in finding ways to teach people how to sustain their marriage before it gets into trouble. They also offer a lot of help to people who's marriages are on the rocks.
> 
> My marriage has been taking a lot of hits over the last few years--at least in my point of view. Getting a fresh point of view from my church inspired me to start making some changes in my own life, and in my own marriage. Changes that led me here to TAM in fact.
> 
> The church hasn't fixed my marriage, nor will they ever. Only I can do that. But sometimes getting some support from the right people will get you moving in the right direction, and that's what they've done for me.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Mr Blunt

> *
> Going to church does NOT magically fix everything. *________________________________________
> It's no secret my wife and I are having problems and have been for about two years now, and we both have married friends that go to church regularly who suggest it's because we do not go to church and that if we did........we would probably not be having these problems.
> 
> 
> Ehhhh - WRONG; and so with that line of thinking then WHY do some of the pastors themselves cheat on their wives, and *WHY do a lot of the people in the congregation struggle with their marriages even though they're regular church goers???*



They struggle for many reasons and here are a few that I think apply:

1	Church is only a FRACTION of your spiritual health and that only is true when you have the right church.

2	Some people substitute church for real devotion to God


3	Following the word of God for marriage is very difficult

4	Putting God above everything else for years is rarely done


5	Selfishness is part of our nature

6	Failure to follow the guidelines of the scriptures on love and marriage will eventfully damage the marriage


7	It takes TWO partners working God’s guidelines to have a successful marriage


The right church CAN BE ONE supplement to your spiritual growth and marriage.



*YOU are responsible for your marriage and spiritual growth. Seeking and living the godly way to live your life is by far the best method.* Listening to church people or anyone else would be only advisable if they have demonstrated a successful marriage for many years. All others are just hot air. IMO


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## Riley Le Fleur

No going to church does not fix everything.

Going to church should help you to become better at developing harmonious and peaceful relationships.

Church should some how show you Love and God to the extent that you can reflect Love wherever you go.

If your church or any church does this it is doing its job and can indeed fix many of our relational problems.


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