# Ugh, more advice needed....



## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Backstory: H left, gave what I see are standard explanations for someone having an EA/PA; "we don't connect anymore", "we've lost our spark", "I'm unhappy", "I'm confused" etc etc etc. I have found no evidence to support any of this happening, but my gut is telling me that at the VERY LEAST he has his eye on something that he may be trying to pursue, even if it hasn't amounted to anything....as I say, at the VERY least. Turns out he's been a little cyber-skank and for several years has been acting inappropriately with women online. I discovered this after he left and my initial thought was THANK GOD HE'S ALREADY GONE. My emotions fluctuate but I am doing IC and it's helping.

Here's the problem: I have been feeling very confident in this separation. I felt like after I discovered the cyber atrocities that I had zero desire to be married to him anymore, so I was happy to just let it be.
Then I had a visit with his parents.
His mom is beside herself. Cannot stop crying. She says we were a perfect match and she doesn't understand this. She hates that he is confused and says a real man would work it out (I agree). She is so sad and miserable, she knows it takes 2 to tango but she feels like he is acting horribly and blames him entirely. His dad mentioned that he thought maybe he wasn't up to the maturity level to be a husband and father (I also agree.)

But they strongly strongly strongly believe he is NOT having an affair, and his brother agrees with them. He just started a new job and has been pouring his heart and soul into work and they think maybe he just has no time for anything else in his life. I would agree with that....partly.
I told them I am suspicious of an affair and gave my reasons why. I said I wasn't 100% sure and wasn't accusing him, but I did wonder. His mom said she flat-out asked him and he said no, he was not. And so she believes him.

Now I'm confused. I'd say the evidence is there that he is, but nobody else seems to see it. Even my close friends, who know him quite well, say they just don't see it....it's making me feel a bit neurotic, like am I losing my grip a little? Was I just so worked up about him leaving that I'm inventing signs of an affair? HOW COME NOBODY ELSE SEES THIS??

Do men say:
I'm confused
I need some time away
I'm unhappy
I feel like we don't click

-and have it actually be the truth and there IS no affair? I am trying to decide how to proceed. I am doing the 180 but it's hard with the kids....I don't really have a goal in mind to get him back, because I have no idea if that's really the best plan, but everyone else seems to this "temporary break" is really just temporary and we should get back together. I feel like my staunch position is slowly faltering.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

MrsG84 said:


> His dad mentioned that he thought maybe he wasn't up to the maturity level to be a husband and father (I also agree.)
> Plenty of evidence for this
> 
> 
> ...


IMO your initial thoughts are spot on. You know him emotionally better than any of his friends - better than all his friends combined. Trust your gut feelings.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

sounds like cheating to me. 

i mean, if he's being intimate with others(cyber sex) without your knowledge or approval(alternative lifestyle), that's considered betrayal to me.


it also sounds like this could be a dealbreaker for you. you've pretty much decided on ending it, but you're feeling a bit pressured by your in-laws to give it another chance. 

truth is, you have to realize that you live your life for you, not them.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

My WH has been very unhappy with his job for about a year and unhappy with the geographical location and the unfairness (go figure) that he has witnessed for years. Everyone says the environment is toxic. All he has wanted to do is leave. Anyway, just a month before giving me the "I don't love you and haven't loved you for a long time. I want a divorce" speech, his complaint about work was "I'm sinking". I felt those were very strong words. I also found out later that he was having an affair. Maybe he meant he was sinking into the vagina of a woman at work?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

What it seeems obvious is he never was really invested. He was putting more effort at getting his ego stroked with the online stuff than developing an intimate relationship with you.
There are tons of people out there who can't past the limerance phase. Once the initial trill goes away they try to relive it with this kind of bull substitutes only it doesn't work then they start feeling trapped in something they were not ready to be in to beging with. They are too detached after putting all their energies elsewere.
His Dad can see through him. He's not ready to be married. 
Is he currently cheating? Who knows. He want at least the chance to just being single and free of commitments.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Do you have kids?


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Since you have more than one thread, it might be more helpful if you just stick with this one and add to it as your story develops. Others can get a more accurate history and help better.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Acabado said:


> Do you have kids?


We do, two and they are 3.5 and 10 months. So I mean, we got into a bit of a rut definitely. I guess that's why I'm feeling confused....it's not like he left a happy, fulfilling marriage. We've been struggling a while. If he up and left a marriage that I perceived as perfectly fine I think I would DEFINITELY be thinking affair affair affair....but none of the things he said were really untrue, so I guess that's why I've been faltering. We WERE unhappy and disconnected, he wasn't wrong about that. Maybe he just felt something had to give?


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> Since you have more than one thread, it might be more helpful if you just stick with this one and add to it as your story develops. Others can get a more accurate history and help better.


Sure, thanks, wasn't sure if that was the right thing to do or not, will continue anything follow up in this thread


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

MrsG, if everybody's saying he has nobody, it's probably true. But he's been looking. His cyber flings prove so. I know guys who are on dating websites and when speaking about their wives, they say : " I love her as a person, but the spark is gone, etc" . So he was def fishing for an affair partner, just that he caught nothing. 

Good for you that you are over him. Focus on the future and just erase him from your mind.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Acabado said:


> What it seeems obvious is he never was really invested. He was putting more effort at getting his ego stroked with the online stuff than developing an intimate relationship with you.
> There are tons of people out there who can't past the limerance phase. Once the initial trill goes away they try to relive it with this kind of bull substitutes only it doesn't work then they start feeling trapped in something they were not ready to be in to beging with. They are too detached after putting all their energies elsewere.
> His Dad can see through him. He's not ready to be married.
> Is he currently cheating? Who knows. He want at least the chance to just being single and free of commitments.



Definitely agree with this. He seems to need the constant thrill and excitement all the time....and I couldn't give it. With the online revelations I definitely can see that.
He is acting incredibly weird, the last time I saw him he looked completely unkempt and dishevelled (so I guess he is impressing new ladies with his looks) and had gotten in a physical fight with someone.....this is NOT the guy I know. He was quiet and gentle and hated confrontation....it seems like he is having some midlife crisis but we're only 29!


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

MrsG84 said:


> Definitely agree with this. He seems to need the constant thrill and excitement all the time....and I couldn't give it. With the online revelations I definitely can see that.
> He is acting incredibly weird, the last time I saw him he looked completely unkempt and dishevelled (so I guess he is impressing new ladies with his looks) and had gotten in a physical fight with someone.....this is NOT the guy I know. He was quiet and gentle and hated confrontation....it seems like he is having some midlife crisis but we're only 29!


I think I read in another thread that he was living with his parents. What do they say about this change in his appearance and confrontational behavior?


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

They have said nothing, I think aside from an initial conversation when he first moved in he hasn't spoken to them. He works odd hours so I don't think their paths have crossed very much....the only thing his mom said was that for the first three nights he was living with them he was out with his high school best friend until 4am or later.
And at first I was like "oh, high school friend....sure...." but she said no, they actually came into the house and she heard them. She said she thinks he's trying to live life like an 18 year old again and she does not like it or think it's right.

I have been snooping on his Facebook (terrible, I know) and within 48 hours of him leaving me he was messaging old friends (male and female) trying to reconnect.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

I have to say first of all, I would not allow my son to live in my house to abandon his wife and children. Additionally, I would not allow him to start acting like a teenager. They are enabling his behavior.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

She did talk to him and she was very honest and said this was inappropriate and that he should be working this out with me. Apparently she was very upset and emotional and told him that this is not how adults act and that he needs to see a counsellor....but yes, aside from that nothing has been said or done.
When she spoke to me she was crying and said she wants to tell his friend to leave him alone so he can sort this out without outside influence...I don't know if she actually will or not,


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Even if he is not having an affair, it doesn't matter as he is still cheating on you and the kids! He is cheating you out of a husband and father!


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Even if he is not having an affair, it doesn't matter as he is still cheating on you and the kids! He is cheating you out of a husband and father!


Agree agree agree.

OK I posted this on the divorce and separation board but I will ask here too. When he left he took a backpack worth of clothes. Like we are talking two pairs of underwear, two pairs of socks.....he wears a uniform for work but like, what the hell?! He left 96% of his wardrobe here!! And he hasn't asked for anything, I actually gave him the rest of his socks and underwear and he was like "oh!! Thanks!!" It has been freezing and snowy and his winter coat is here. Until my maternity leave is done we are both still using our joint bank account like normal, and he isn't buying stuff....so why did he leave all his things?? I boxed them up to give to him but now people (friends) are saying that's a pretty "bold statement" to make....

He has told all his family that this is a "temporary break" which I thought was bull crap, but he has left his whole life here....so is it possible he intends to return?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> He has told all his family that this is a "temporary break" which I thought was bull crap, but he has left his whole life here....so is it possible he intends to return?


It sure seems like he wants a back up plan and that plan is back to your home. He seems like the worst planner in the world if he even had a thought out plan.

Whatever he is up to is not working out to well for him. His appearance is un-kept, his parents are not supporting his decision, and he got into a physical fight against his personality.

I know that for some men that going from 29 to 30 is the biggest worry. Going into the 40s or 50s is not quite as dramatic in most cases I have heard. Regardless, that is a cop out for leaving your children.

If you want my guess it would be that he will contact you about coming back home this year and it may be sooner than later. His current life shows signs of going downhill.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> It sure seems like he wants a back up plan and that plan is back to your home. He seems like the worst planner in the world if he even had a thought out plan.
> 
> Whatever he is up to is not working out to well for him. His appearance is un-kept, his parents are not supporting his decision, and he got into a physical fight against his personality.
> 
> ...



He is a terrible planner so on one hand this doesn't surprise me but then on the other hand I feel like, if you are so desperate to leave your wife and kids, why wouldn't you be taking all your belongings and getting prepared to start a whole brand new life? Or at the very least, if you are trying to impress an OW maybe you'd want your nice clothes and underwear.....

Not a lot of how he has handled this makes sense to me.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> Do men say:
> I'm confused
> I need some time away
> I'm unhappy
> ...


Yes, about 2% of the time.

MrsG I know they're "family" to you but you cannot trust your in-laws judgement concerning your H.

I could've killed thirty men and my mother would go to her grave in denial.

Their denial/naivety is the best possibility.

When the **** hits the fan, if things get uglier where do you think those in-laws will be standing?
Whose interests are they truly concerned about, "yours"?
I don't think so.

They want to fix their boys life and they don't care who has to pay for it.

Do you want to R?
You, not the in-laws, not your H, what do YOU want to do FOR YOU?


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Yes, about 2% of the time.
> 
> MrsG I know they're "family" to you but you cannot trust your in-laws judgement concerning your H.
> 
> ...



Agreed, just all their opinions made me second-guess everything! I feel like there is no hope for R, up until a few days ago I figured he wasn't going to come back and he hasn't exactly made steps to show me he wants to work on the relationship- we are getting along, but it's not like I see him changing his ways. 

I have been saying since the start of this that I don't want to be married to someone who can just randomly check out of the marriage. I am committed to working this out, I don't think I agree with a separation to magically solve all problems.

Its just that we have kids and sometimes that clouds my judgement. My MIL crying and saying that the whole family is devastated by his behaviour made me soften a bit. Hearing that my BIL cried when he heard the news made me feel sad, like I'm helping to throw something away that is so important to the family. 

It just made me overthink. His parents are divorced so I actually expected her to have more sympathy for him and be all "yeah you should leave if you aren't happy" but she is not at ALL. I just got thrown by that. Everyone seems to want us to work it out....all the optimism and positivity is confusing me. And they all say that H is adamant that this is temporary. I just get confused I think.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> Turns out he's been a little cyber-skank and for several years has been acting inappropriately with women online.


Can you give us more detail about his life as a "cyber-skank". I think this is what's going on but need more details.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> We do, two and they are 3.5 and 10 months. So I mean, we got into a bit of a rut definitely. I guess that's why I'm feeling confused....it's not like he left a happy, fulfilling marriage. We've been struggling a while. If he up and left a marriage that I perceived as perfectly fine I think I would DEFINITELY be thinking affair affair affair....but none of the things he said were really untrue, so I guess that's why I've been faltering. We WERE unhappy and disconnected, he wasn't wrong about that. Maybe he just felt something had to give?


When a couple realizes that all of this is wrong with their marriage, they work on it and fix it. Jumping ship is immature to say the least. He is at least 50% responsible for the problems before he left. His cyber cheating means that he is probably more than 50% responsible for the distrance between you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> Agree agree agree.
> 
> OK I posted this on the divorce and separation board but I will ask here too. When he left he took a backpack worth of clothes. Like we are talking two pairs of underwear, two pairs of socks.....he wears a uniform for work but like, what the hell?! He left 96% of his wardrobe here!! And he hasn't asked for anything, I actually gave him the rest of his socks and underwear and he was like "oh!! Thanks!!" It has been freezing and snowy and his winter coat is here. Until my maternity leave is done we are both still using our joint bank account like normal, and he isn't buying stuff....so why did he leave all his things?? I boxed them up to give to him but now people (friends) are saying that's a pretty "bold statement" to make....
> 
> He has told all his family that this is a "temporary break" which I thought was bull crap, but he has left his whole life here....so is it possible he intends to return?


Do you know where he is staying?

He might have a bank account in his own name that he's been stashing funds in.

How long has he been gone?


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Can you give us more detail about his life as a "cyber-skank". I think this is what's going on but need more details.


Well it would appear he was meeting ladies through some gaming website, to chat...there was a ton of actual cyber-sex conversations but also a few just regular conversations, chatting like friends. It seemed to be the same 4 or 5 girls fairly consistently. There was a bunch of naked pictures from a couple of the women he was speaking to. That's about it. But it had been going on for AGES. The one girl showed up almost daily for a while and actually asked him "do you consider us to be dating?" and all he said was "do you?" Super super weird. From what I could decipher all of these girls lived far away....so it's definitely not women he met in his every day life.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Do you know where he is staying?
> 
> He might have a bank account in his own name that he's been stashing funds in.
> 
> How long has he been gone?


And to answer these questions, he is staying with his mom and step dad, only a few minutes away. I wouldn't discount a separate bank account but he's depositing his paychecks in our joint account like normal and not making any withdrawals. So I don't think he's hiding money...yet.

And he's been gone about 2.5 weeks


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> And to answer these questions, he is staying with his mom and step dad, only a few minutes away. I wouldn't discount a separate bank account but he's depositing his paychecks in our joint account like normal and not making any withdrawals. So I don't think he's hiding money...yet.
> 
> And he's been gone about 2.5 weeks


Do you see his pay stubs? A person can usually have a check deposited to different accounts.

I have most of my pay go to the account I use for paying our bills and daily living. A smaller portion of my pay goes to an account at my companie's credit union. He could be doing something like that.

If he thinks that this is just a break then he needs to tell you. It's a crock to not let you know. Right now I think you have to assume that he's not coming back. It does not matter what his parents want. They can put all the guilt on you that they want to. But it sounds like your husband has left and has no interest in working on the marriage. Have you told them this.. that he's not interested in fixing anything?

Also, I am very familiar with cyber cheating. It's as much cheating as cheating in person. There might be no physical contact but there is a lot of sexual energy and emotions put into it. My husband did this for a long time. He was meeting women when he traveled. There is a possibility that your husband has had women come visit him where he lives. You would be surprised how many people do this.

Has he taken any trips without you? Any long weekends? 

His cyber activities need to be treated just like an in person affair.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

No, truly he is a real homebody. He works and comes home, never goes away overnight or anything.
That said, who really knows right? Where there's a will there's a way! I am remaining skeptical of anything and everything....I may just assume he did meet some of them because why not, I would believe ANYTHING at this point!

Yes I did tell his family that he doesn't seem to want to work on anything. They were very angry. When his dad was maintaining that "he told me it was just temporary, I believe he will come back to you" I flat-out said "he isn't making any effort to work anything out, why would he come back?"

Before he left he told me this was just temporary but there was no timeline. When I asked if this meant divorce he said "well I would never want that but who knows...." which is so stupidly vague that I assumes it meant we were DEFINITELY getting a divorce haha. He has told both his mother and I that the door is still open to us working this out. Whatever that means.

He is salary, so his pay is always the same. There have been no changes in that regard, the same amount always goes in.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MrsG84 said:


> I boxed them up to give to him but now people (friends) are saying that's a pretty "bold statement" to make...


As opposed to leaving you high and dry for a "break?"

No offense, but your friends need a reality check and he does as well! That 96% would be in a some boxes and fed-exed to his house, that way he can sign for his reality check.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> As opposed to leaving you high and dry for a "break?"
> 
> No offense, but your friends need a reality check and he does as well! That 96% would be in a some boxes and fed-exed to his house, that way he can sign for his reality check.


I guess the thinking was that if he just wanted a break for a few weeks then it looks like I'm kicking him out.
But what you said is exactly how I thought....if H wants to go then he needs to REALLY leave. I'm not doing it out of spite or bitterness, but he chose to go so he needs to see what going looks like.

I think I will still do it. I mean the stuff is boxed up already,but I am definitely going to force him to take it away. Nicely and with a smile


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MrsG84 said:


> I guess the thinking was that if he just wanted a break for a few weeks then it looks like I'm kicking him out.
> But what you said is exactly how I thought....if H wants to go then he needs to REALLY leave. I'm not doing it out of spite or bitterness, but he chose to go so he needs to see what going looks like.
> 
> I think I will still do it. I mean the stuff is boxed up already,but I am definitely going to force him to take it away. Nicely and with a smile


EXACTLY, show him you are not PLAN B! I'm not saying you can't work things out, just that he needs a strong reality check. 
Your house is not self storage and you are not the Security guard.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

OK so then here's another question. I have been doing the 180, I'm a mom and I know I'm not able to just lay in bed feeling sorry for myself for months and months. As much as I'd like to!! 

So I've been keeping our contact very polite and friendly-ish but basically just about the kids. Yesterday, via text messaging, we were making plans for his day with them. He said he would cook dinner and then he invited me to stay too. Normally I've been going out in the evenings when he has the kids. We have not been home all together since he left.
I replied with "Not necessary, but thanks."

He responded with "????????" and I said "It just seems weird if I'm there, I will make other plans" and he got a bit defensive and said "It's not weird, it's just dinner." I just kept maintaining a "thanks for including me, but I will make alternate plans, as per usual."

He seemed to get kind of angry/upset, texting back "oh. ok" after everything I said. STUPIDLY I softened a bit and so by way of explanation I said simply "I've been craving a steak dinner so I'm hoping to force someone into going with me."

I would have just left it at that. But H, who as the maturity level of a 15 year old right now, texted back "Lol who will you force? your boyfriend? Lol"

And I admit I went a bit off the rails here, but I hated that he said that and was feeling really snippy about it. I mean, why ask that? Was he serious? I can't tell. So I just texted back "sure, and we can double date with you and one your millions of girlfriends." I am KICKING myself for doing that, but it was a slip.

He texts back "Only one " and for a few seconds I actually thought, Holy sh!t is he actually going to admit to dating someone because IF SO then I can tell everybody that I was right and he has moved on and we can end this business and get divorced....so I text back "???for real???" and he IMMEDIATELY texts back "haha no, kidding" and I just said "I see" and he kept texting "I was just joking" over and over.

That was the WORST conversation we could have had. I hate that it happened, but I ended it right there and said we'd talk in a few days. It was dumb of me to engage in that conversation but there it is.

What the F did that mean? Was he just making a tasteless joke? My first thought was that he is prepping me by seeing my reaction....and then he'll know when to admit if he is seeing someone. I relayed some of that conversation to my friend and she said "I think it was supposed to be funny" but when I told my mom she said "That's disgusting, I hope you never speak to him again" haha. So, conflicting viewpoints once again!


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Don't beat yourself up about that. We all have weaknesses. Best thing you can do in the future is just walk away from it before hitting send. You did good in the beginning by declining his offer though. It left him guessing.

Not sure about what he meant. He could have meant you, since he had offered to have you stay for dinner, but one thing I did learn from my past mistakes is never joke about "imaginary" girlfriends or boyfriends. I will never, ever, in a future relationship utter any reference to such a thing. In my case, I am sure my WH, through his joking, was really laughing at me, because he knew I never suspected a thing, and he felt comfortable referring to my imaginary boyfriend, because he knew he did not have to worry about me cheating on him, or maybe he just did not give a crap. I will never put myself in a situation to be laughed at again.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> Don't beat yourself up about that. We all have weaknesses. Best thing you can do in the future is just walk away from it before hitting send. You did good in the beginning by declining his offer though. It left him guessing
> 
> Not sure about what he meant. He could have meant you, since he had offered to have you stay for dinner, but one thing I did learn from my past mistakes is never joke about "imaginary" girlfriends or boyfriends. I will never, ever, in a future relationship utter any reference to such a thing. In my case, I am sure my WH, through his joking, was really laughing at me, because he knew I never suspected a thing, and he felt comfortable referring to my imaginary boyfriend, because he knew he did not have to worry about me cheating on him, or maybe he just did not give a crap. I will never put myself in a situation to be laughed at again.



Yes, agreed. This is why I felt so stupid, because what was he doing? Was he making fun of me? Fishing for info? Does he think it would be NORMAL for me to have a boyfriend within 2 weeks of him leaving?! We even discussed that we weren't going to "date" while separated and he agreed- which I just assumed meant he would do everything in his power to hide a relationship if there was one.

He did this before, a few days after he left. I got a new haircut and dyed my hair and he was so surprised....one of his first comments was "what made you do that? Looking for boyfriends?" And I mean it was light-hearted when he said it, but it's so weird. He even mentioned a former coworker of mine that he was very very jealous of a few years ago (ad there was literally NOTHING to be jealous of, seriously just friends-and just friends at work only! It wasn't like we spoke or hung out outside of work!).

So in the discussion of my new hair he said "maybe former coworker will start coming around" and I didn't even answer. I can't decide if he is is jealous and checking up on me, or trying to pawn me off on other guys.......


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

MrsG84 said:


> Yes, agreed. This is why I felt so stupid, because what was he doing? Was he making fun of me? Fishing for info? Does he think it would be NORMAL for me to have a boyfriend within 2 weeks of him leaving?! We even discussed that we weren't going to "date" while separated and he agreed- which I just assumed meant he would do everything in his power to hide a relationship if there was one.
> 
> He did this before, a few days after he left. I got a new haircut and dyed my hair and he was so surprised....one of his first comments was "what made you do that? Looking for boyfriends?" And I mean it was light-hearted when he said it, but it's so weird. He even mentioned a former coworker of mine that he was very very jealous of a few years ago (ad there was literally NOTHING to be jealous of, seriously just friends-and just friends at work only! It wasn't like we spoke or hung out outside of work!).
> 
> So in the discussion of my new hair he said "maybe former coworker will start coming around" and I didn't even answer. I can't decide if he is is jealous and checking up on me, or trying to pawn me off on other guys.......


That is why I refuse to joke about "imaginary" people in a relationship. Too many questions. Too many ways to drive yourself crazy wondering if they are or were serious.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Yup. It was a huge error in judgement and I've been doing really well!! It's so hard to try and do the 180 when little stuff keeps cropping up. I hate having to engage in chatty conversations with him.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MrsG84 said:


> So I've been keeping our contact very polite and friendly-ish but basically just about the kids.
> Yesterday, via text messaging, we were making plans for his day with them. He said he would cook dinner and then he invited me to stay too. Normally I've been going out in the evenings when he has the kids. We have not been home all together since he left.
> I replied with "Not necessary, but thanks."


This is exactly correct according to the 180!



> He responded with "????????" and I said "It just seems weird if I'm there, I will make other plans" and he got a bit defensive and said "It's not weird, it's just dinner." I just kept maintaining a "thanks for including me, but I will make alternate plans, as per usual."


 This is fishing and he is a worried cake eater. 



> He seemed to get kind of angry/upset, texting back "oh.


See, you have set a boundary he doesn't like. You are showing him that you are not at his beck and call it is really only about the children. Cake eaters do not like this at all.



> STUPIDLY I softened a bit and so by way of explanation I said simply "I've been craving a steak dinner so I'm hoping to force someone into going with me."
> 
> I would have just left it at that. But H, who as the maturity level of a 15 year old right now, texted back "Lol who will you force? your boyfriend? Lol"


 He's fishing and this was your only minute mistake. I am on the outside, so of course I can be clinical and detached. It is easy for me to point out your mistake. You are going to make mistakes, we all did, that's why many of us are still here for support. This would have been the PERFECT time to say good bye. He would have wondered what exactly you were doing and who you'd have to force.




> He texts back "Only one " and for a few seconds I actually thought, Holy sh!t is he actually going to admit to dating someone because IF SO then I can tell everybody that I was right and he has moved on and we can end this business and get divorced....so I text back "???for real???" and he IMMEDIATELY texts back "haha no, kidding" and I just said "I see" and he kept texting "I was just joking" over and over.


 Oh and no, I do not think he is kidding. He's seeing if you still care, which you do, and now he has the upper-hand in his mind.

You started off great. Just remember to watch the clues, when the conversational turns towards your personal life and shut it down with a simple good bye. You may be married, but you aren't currently in a healthy *marriage.* He has no right to invade your privacy and know anything you do until he comes back.

Oops I missed this part:


> He did this before, a few days after he left. I got a new haircut and dyed my hair and he was so surprised....one of his first comments was "what made you do that? Looking for boyfriends?" And I mean it was light-hearted when he said it, but it's so weird. He even mentioned a former coworker of mine that he was very very jealous of a few years ago (ad there was literally NOTHING to be jealous of, seriously just friends-and just friends at work only! It wasn't like we spoke or hung out outside of work!).
> 
> So in the discussion of my new hair he said "maybe former coworker will start coming around" and I didn't even answer. I can't decide if he is is jealous and checking up on me, or trying to pawn me off on other guys.......


Not only is he jealous and fishing, at some point, this will be used in a marital history rewrite when he blame-shifts his exit on you.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Manboy needs a time out of responsabilities of being a married man with children.
As he's been dating online for ages it's not a huge distance for him. He believes he has the upped hand because he has it, was having it for a while in his mind, he just didn't detach as a consequence of starting an affair, he never was invested enough.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You say that he is a homebody. But you have idea if he's acting like a homebody right now. He's not living with you. It sounds like his parents would cover for him if he's going out a lot.

Just continue to move on with your life. Has he changed his address yet to get his mail at his parent's house? If not how is he getting his mail?


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> You say that he is a homebody. But you have idea if he's acting like a homebody right now. He's not living with you. It sounds like his parents would cover for him if he's going out a lot.
> 
> Just continue to move on with your life. Has he changed his address yet to get his mail at his parent's house? If not how is he getting his mail?[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

If your H has not been cheating, which the odds for that are low smells like an EA. It seems he wants a way out because he sees the grass is greener on the other side and is not MAN enough to say he wants out.

Most of the time, when you hear "I want out, there is no connection, no spark, no chemistry" that person has had flak, static, and lots of attention put to another person.

To his dismay he will find the grass is not greener on the other side. Let him know, he can leave, go, but you will not wait for him. You will not tolerate his childish indecisiveness, his immaturity, and his rancid jokes. You will not standby and wait for him to conform at his own accord, but instead to yours. You will be moving on and, fast. 

If he were a regal man, he'd learn how to PROPERLY love ONE woman at a time and, devote himself entirely to her. It seems he cannot even do that.

Tell him "good riddance" then. Keep 180, pray for change.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MrsG84 said:


> Agree agree agree.
> 
> OK I posted this on the divorce and separation board but I will ask here too. When he left he took a backpack worth of clothes. Like we are talking two pairs of underwear, two pairs of socks.....he wears a uniform for work but like, what the hell?! He left 96% of his wardrobe here!! And he hasn't asked for anything, I actually gave him the rest of his socks and underwear and he was like "oh!! Thanks!!" It has been freezing and snowy and his winter coat is here. Until my maternity leave is done we are both still using our joint bank account like normal, and he isn't buying stuff....so why did he leave all his things?? I boxed them up to give to him but now people (friends) are saying that's a pretty "bold statement" to make....
> 
> He has told all his family that this is a "temporary break" which I thought was bull crap, but he has left his whole life here....so is it possible he intends to return?


Yes. It's also possible he has had some kind of a breakdown. Not helpful leaving you with a family to look after by yourself, including a baby, but if people have breakdowns they don't think straight.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

My gut feeling is that maybe there is no PA (or there wasnt before, maybe now that he'a gone) but I believe he is in a full EA with a woman he works with. I think that this so-called "temporary" break is a way for him to test things out and see if he can get anywhere with her. 
I refuse refuse refuse to be plan B. He was right about all the problems we had, no spark etc but the idea to separate without giving us a chance to work on things just SCREAMS that he is exploring other opportunities.

Anyways so I want to maintain the 180 because I have been getting a lot of positive feedback from friends and family about how maturely and confidently I am handling things....and when I feel proud of my behaviour I feel better about myself. I've read all about it several times but could use some input.

I'm sure he will try and hug and/or kiss me when he sees me in a few days....the first time this happened he tried to kiss me on the lips nd when I turned my cheek he laughed "oh stop" and I said "you choose to leave, I choose if you kiss me on the lips or not!" But I can't say that EVERY time!!

Do I allow friendly hugs? How should I avoid one? If he asks how I'm doing, do I think ask how HE is doing or just drop it? I get a bit flustered actually around him, because it's hard for me to be stand offish when he's being super friendly.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MrsG84 said:


> My gut feeling is that maybe there is no PA (or there wasnt before, maybe now that he'a gone) but I believe he is in a full EA with a woman he works with. I think that this so-called "temporary" break is a way for him to test things out and see if he can get anywhere with her.
> I refuse refuse refuse to be plan B. He was right about all the problems we had, no spark etc but the idea to separate without giving us a chance to work on things just SCREAMS that he is exploring other opportunities.
> 
> Anyways so I want to maintain the 180 because I have been getting a lot of positive feedback from friends and family about how maturely and confidently I am handling things....and when I feel proud of my behaviour I feel better about myself. I've read all about it several times but could use some input.
> ...


Well, yes. If you want to, you can say that each and every time. It really is your call. Not his, as you did nothing wrong.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Well, yes. If you want to, you can say that each and every time. It really is your call. Not his, as you did nothing wrong.


Haha no I just meant it isn't a very original comment to make every single time he goes to kiss me....I kind of like putting him in his place a bit. That is probably just as bad as hoping 180 will lead to R. I kind of hope the 180 confuses and frustrates him!!!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MrsG84 said:


> My gut feeling is that maybe there is no PA (or there wasnt before, maybe now that he'a gone) but I believe he is in a full EA with a woman he works with. I think that this so-called "temporary" break is a way for him to test things out and see if he can get anywhere with her.
> I refuse refuse refuse to be plan B. He was right about all the problems we had, no spark etc but the idea to separate without giving us a chance to work on things just SCREAMS that he is exploring other opportunities.
> 
> Anyways so I want to maintain the 180 because I have been getting a lot of positive feedback from friends and family about how maturely and confidently I am handling things....and when I feel proud of my behaviour I feel better about myself. I've read all about it several times but could use some input.
> ...


Cake eaters shouldn't be given any cake. Of course it is hard, you obviously still love the bonehead and there is nothing wrong with those feelings.
I did a short 180 like maybe 7 days, after DDAY2 and my wife basically melted down. The trickle truth pretty much ended and I felt I got 90-95% of the truth.
What I learned from TAM is you dictate the rules not the cake eater. You don't have to be mean, but they have no say when they leave or screw up. 

If he has a mental condition that's different, but what you described is a cake eater IMO. He wants to be friends with benefits. He wants affection from you, with none of the commitment of being a husband and a full time parent. As someone who waited nearly a year, while someone undercover dated and told me they weren't sure what they wanted, never again. Not my wife an ex-fiance who was pissed when I quit waiting.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Cake eaters shouldn't be given any cake. Of course it is hard, you obviously still love the bonehead and there is nothing wrong with those feelings.
> I did a short 180 like maybe 7 days, after DDAY2 and my wife basically melted down. The trickle truth pretty much ended and I felt I got 90-95% of the truth.
> What I learned from TAM is you dictate the rules not the cake eater. You don't have to be mean, but they have no say when they leave or screw up.
> 
> If he has a mental condition that's different, but what you described is a cake eater IMO. He wants to be friends with benefits. He wants affection from you, with none of the commitment of being a husband and a full time parent. As someone who waited nearly a year, while someone undercover dated and told me they weren't sure what they wanted, never again. Not my wife an ex-fiance who was pissed when I quit waiting.



Yes, the "don't know what I want" has been mentioned a lot by my H. For the first few days I was really upset and trying to think of how to portray myself in the best light to make myself the obvious choice.....but aside from our issues, we have 9 years of memories and history. I can't believe I'm not the first choice. I'm the mother of his kids!! I don't think I deserve to be Plan B. I think with some real hard work we could fix this but I am not interested in being married to someone who doesn't want to be married to me.

That said, he's been my best buddy for 9 years. My heart has been bruised and I don't know if I would say that I currently am IN LOVE with him....but I do love him, in a different capacity. It's hard to feel neutral, so I find the 180 sometimes hard to implement when we're face to face.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Although I should add....I haven't even had any trickle truth. He just flat out denies denies denies. After all of this drama and still sticking with that story.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MrsG84 said:


> It's hard to feel neutral, so I find the 180 sometimes hard to implement when we're face to face.


If it was easy, then your marriage was already over. The 180 is to help you fix you, not help him realize what he is missing. When you know, not think, you don't want to be plan B it'll be working properly for you.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MrsG84 said:


> Although I should add....I haven't even had any trickle truth. He just flat out denies denies denies. After all of this drama and still sticking with that story.


Go into "snoop" mode and never look back. I felt guilty for a split second, but was vindicated when I found the messages. I then realized, there are no real secrets or real lies, in marriage.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Snooping is what has les me to the online indiscretions....but the trail stopped in December. I can find NOTHING on anything current.
If I could snoop in his cell phone I'm sure I would find evidence of inappropriate friendships/EA, but since he isn't in our home that isn't really possible!


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Next time he tries to kiss you, use Jesus' words

"you betray me with a kiss?"




"If you were the least bit of a man, you'd have learned the first step in becoming one. Admitting when you are wrong, knowing your faults, and confessing your wrongdoings behind my back, so that I may at least have the CHOICE to forgive you or not and the knowledge to take you back in full truth and honesty and to fight for us. Yet, it seems you do not even acknowledge me, I'm not afraid of being hurt by you."


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I don't think that people say 'I don't know what I want' if there is no one else involved. I would say he is definitely involved with someone, and at the very least has his eyes on someone else. 

If it was genuine that he had fallen out of love with you because the marriage was not working and he was fed up with drifting and just didn't want the marriage any longer, he would have approached this very differently. E.g. this marriage isn't working, I don't love you, I am sorry. 'I don't know what I want' would NEVER come into it if there was not another person involved in whichever way they might be. IMO.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

Remains said:


> I don't think that people say 'I don't know what I want' if there is no one else involved. I would say he is definitely involved with someone, and at the very least has his eyes on someone else.
> 
> If it was genuine that he had fallen out of love with you because the marriage was not working and he was fed up with drifting and just didn't want the marriage any longer, he would have approached this very differently. E.g. this marriage isn't working, I don't love you, I am sorry. 'I don't know what I want' would NEVER come into it if there was not another person involved in whichever way they might be. IMO.


Oh I wholeheartedly agree with you. I would bet he is actively pursuing someone at his work. Whether its actually working for him, who knows.

The initial breakup discussion never mentioned anything about not knowing what he wanted or being confused....that didn't come out until a week later. So the story changes all the time it seems. The first discussion was him saying we don't click anymore and he was unhappy. Which I felt myself. But I am not confused,'nor have I ever been. How are you confused about living with your wife and babies? Only if you are thinking the grass might be greener, I bet!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Absolutely he thinks the grass is greener.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

I just hope he stays gone. I can't deal with him coming ans going. That isn't going to work for me. I wonder how often they find that the grass actually IS greener and set up a permanent life with the OW....


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Often enough I guess. But then the OW ends up with that person. The person that looks for greener grass. That can't be fun. No secure relationship there!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> I just hope he stays gone. I can't deal with him coming ans going. That isn't going to work for me. I wonder how often they find that the grass actually IS greener and set up a permanent life with the OW....


It happens but it's not the norm.

How green is "your" grass right now MrsG?

You can't just allow him to set the tempo of this situation.

Start pushing your own agenda a bit harder.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

tacoma said:


> It happens but it's not the norm.
> 
> How green is "your" grass right now MrsG?
> 
> ...



What do you think I should do? 
I thought packing up his stuff and telling him to take it sends a pretty clear message....could I be doing more? I am reluctant to ask him any hard questions because I think he will lie. Despite all of this he is a kind person and hates upsetting people. I think that even with a gun to his head he would still claim this as a temporary break even if he knew it wasn't. So how should I go about getting some of the control back? I can't divorce him until we have been separated one year, so serving him with divorce papers isn't an option.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

MrsG84 said:


> My gut feeling is that maybe there is no PA (or there wasnt before, maybe now that he'a gone) but I believe he is in a full EA with a woman he works with. I think that this so-called "temporary" break is a way for him to test things out and see if he can get anywhere with her.
> I refuse refuse refuse to be plan B.


But you are Plan B, you're willingly submitting to being Plan B.
You are right now at home BEING Plan B.

Where is he?
What's he doing?
Who is he with?
Why are you letting him shop around?
Why do you accept this disrespect?



> Anyways so I want to maintain the 180 because I have been getting a lot of positive feedback from friends and family about how maturely and confidently I am handling things....and when I feel proud of my behaviour I feel better about myself. I've read all about it several times but could use some input.


The 180 is a method of shielding yourself from the damage happening to your life right now due to your relationship and it's good you're attempting it.

But what are you going to do about the relationship itself?
It seems you're just reacting to what he does.
You should have him reacting to what your doing a bit more often MrsG



> I'm sure he will try and hug and/or kiss me when he sees me in a few days....the first time this happened he tried to kiss me on the lips nd when I turned my cheek he laughed "oh stop" and I said "you choose to leave, I choose if you kiss me on the lips or not!" But I can't say that EVERY time!!
> 
> Do I allow friendly hugs? How should I avoid one? If he asks how I'm doing, do I think ask how HE is doing or just drop it? I get a bit flustered actually around him, because it's hard for me to be stand offish when he's being super friendly.


"Don't touch me." works well.

In fact, until he grows up and comes home to be a man touching you at all should be off the menu.
You should be madder MrsG

What are you doing to evidence the EA you believe he's having?

Bringing that out in the open would change that status quo I was mentioning before.


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

I guess I just don't know what more I can do. He has moved out so I have no idea what he is doing and with whom....he has been asked by multiple people (myself included) if he is seeing someone else and he always says no. He has been working 15 hour days at work, and has phoned me several times from the work # to discuss the kids, so I have to assume he is actually there when he says he is. But what he gets up to when he isn't working, I have no clue. And aside from hiring a PI which I can't really afford, how will I ever find out? He has told NOBODY that we are separated, aside from family and best friend, so if he is sneaking around with someone I have to assume he is being REALLY careful.
I have checked emails, Facebook....no evidence of anything.

I told him I don't agree with him leaving, but he left anyways. I am doing IC and he knows I am. I told him maybe he should see a counselor and he agreed, but he hasn't set anything up and I am not going to do it for him.

This whole thing was his idea so I feel like in a sense what more can I do aside from react to what he does? I don't respond to every text, call, etc and I don't let the conversation ever stray from plans for the kids....I will be seeing a lawyer to formalize a separation agreement, and I've packed up all his things for him to take away.

I am not at all trying to argue, I hope that is clear  I legitimately need advice for what more I should do. I DON"T walk to just react to all his stupid plans, but I am not sure if there is more I can do???? Seriously....guide me!!


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## MrsG84 (Feb 14, 2013)

OK actually people have been telling me to force him to give an end time to the separation and I agree I probably should....but when I asked before he left, all he kept saying was;
"It's temporary"
"I'm sure I will be back"
"This isn't forever."

And yet when I asked if he thought we would get divorced he said "well I would never want that, buuuut....." so he has actually no idea what is up. He initiated this stupid plan and yet he has no idea what he wants the outcome to be. And I guarantee even if he is thinking "I can't wait to divorce her" he will NEVER say that to my face.

I would like to set a deadline for how long this should last but I don't know what is appropriate. It's been 2 weeks. I sort of thought at the one-month mark I would say "this has gone on a while and we aren't really working to improve the marriage so I think we should just assume this arrangement is permanent". I guess I could do that sooner?


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