# Anyone survive after 7 years of turmoil?



## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

New here. *Extremely alone. *Kinda nervous. ...


Where do I start? *Been together for 20 years. * The past 6 + years have been fighting. * Almost constant. **


I will list the things I did wrong.


I slept with someone when we broke up in the beginning of the relationship, *and he was someone husband was jealous of. *I flirted with 2 or 3 men before we got married. *I had an emotional email affair with a customer of mine just after our first child was born. *I never met him.*


We had a decent relationship before. * *All the crap but the emotional email affair happened in the very beginning of our relationship. *He*did not know any of this until 7 years ago when he asked me if I ever slept with someone else. *I admitted it. *He asked so many questions. *I was afraid of confrontation. * I usually backed down. *Never fought back. *But passive aggressive. *So he did have to drag things out of me. *And i waited 10 months to admit the email affair. * I did not think it was an affair. *I knew it was wrong and thought only physical contact was cheating but i see it differently now. *He pressed me about my past before him....when i told him about it when we dated. * He pressed until i gave details. *He was so angry I was freer with the people in my past. * He has made my past out to be way more than it ever was. *


Fast forward to today. *We barely talk. *We still fight if we try. *He calls me names when angry. *Throws my past at me all the time. *He says for me to figure this out. *When i point out that he hasn't tried in over 5 years when he took his ring off. *His answer is always that hes still here. *If I say i think its a problem. ....its me complaining. * Or leave. *


I am a liar. *Cheater. *Selfish, self serving, victim mentality, and blame shifter. *But should you be called those and a lot more names every time the other gets mad?* I am defensive. * So it sends me into a fight mode. **


We tried a counselor, *he didn't like that. So I went to a different one myself. *She said i was being verbally abused.*


I gave up friends, family, likes, going places doing things because of the conflict it caused and I was not allowed to talk to anyone I had given more of myself to everyone from my past. * I cant work, he don't trust me. *We cant go to anything local I may see someone of my past. We don't listen to music. *It's me and my past. Everything, *i mean everything has been thrown into fights. *


I know I am not perfect. *I know I have made many mistakes. * I haven't given as much as he has. *He was NOT like this before d day. *He has always been rigid, *thats why I was scared. But I loved him. * He is a great man. *


So....I am still here trying. * He says he isn't attracted to me. *But I am still attracted the non angry man. And sex? *Not very often. *Its been? *4 months again. *So maybe 4 times a year. *He most of the time told me no if I iniated it. * I have a high sex drive. *2 to 3 times a week is all I asked. *After d day I even admitted to being Bi sexual and it could and did benefit him. *


I know we are both miserable. * Our kids are so used to us fighting a whole day or weekend or vacation or if i have plans?*


I understand i made it this way. *I understand i did not give like I should have in the beginning. * I am the dishonest coward who cheated and have been a train wreck. *I did not follow through with plans for us to go out or things that were my responsibility. *I don't understand how you work on a relationship if only one person is. *Neither of us think we will make it. *He says he's lost all faith in me. *He has no confidence in me. *Lots more to this but this is a*start.


Has anyone ever made it out if a hole this deep alone?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Ya Me and Mrs.the-guy made is out.


The thing is I had the grace to forgive and your old man doesn't.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I am suspicious of your husband's attitude. Is he playing the field?


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

So you never cheated during your marriage? He is just upset at what you did before you were married?


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Well, he is just punishing you at this point. You cannot fix everything on your own, that is an impossibility. You should go see a therapist and own your side of your issues. When you were broken up and slept with someone else, you were not in a committed relationship at the time, but the other things you did, you have to own. You need to find out, why did you keep this hidden for so long.

You also need to consider, if his abusive behavior continues, will you stay with him. His claim that he is here is only true in the physical statement. Emotionally, he is gone, and his anger is a weapon to keep attacking your self-worth. He wants you to be beaten down and he may not even realize it. You cannot deal with irrationality It might be healthier if you leave him and say your sorry, but your doing it for the both of you. You need something to break his anger cycle, and if he lets you go, then it was probably what he wanted all along, he is treating you poorly so the break-up is on you.. And, if he triggers whenever your around, the best thing you can do for him is to leave and let him heal.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I took me a couple of years to get there....but after 6 yrs of this...it doesn't sound good...it sound like your old man is sticking around for all the wrong reasons.
I mean most guys this infidelity crap is a deal breaker....I think your old man doesn't want's to face the truth and be real with him self.

Guys there is nothing wrong with getting the phuck out after your old lady screws around....why live this way?



Sorry girl but at the end of the day your old man might never be able to get over your adultery and lying about your past....but for some reason he is trying to fake his way through it.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I do not understand what you meant what you said:

*After d day I even admitted to being Bi sexual and it could and did benefit him. *

Are you saying that you have had 3 somes with your husband and another woman?


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

No he isnt cheating but said he would not pass any opportunities. He isnt a cheater. He is a very very honest man.

I did not physically touch anyone when we were together, aside from a few women when we were doing it together, so no threesomes, but being "playful". 

He said he is only here for the kids at this point. And refuses anything I try. I am afraid of confrontation. I always have been. And I think thats why I wasnt completely honest with him all throughout.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

My WW’s take on reconciliation was never about me healing, it was about her avoiding. That sort of thinking dooms a reconciliation. It makes her a martyr and me the abusive tormenter.… Oh poor her not being treated as you should treat a wife. She likes seeing herself as a prisoner doing time. 

Jumping on the BH? Sorry, but the way I read the OP’s story reminds me of my WW. Not much in there about what she’s done to help him heal. I mean, stopping the cheating and working on yourself is great and all, but does not address his healing at all. Looks more like she’s a major avoider with martyr ideals.

Sort of like due to your issues, you beat your dog. It becomes vicious and untrusting of you. Working on your issues so you no longer feel you need to kick the dog doesn’t exactly rebuild that relationship with them… it knows hurt comes from you. Getting angry that after you’ve ‘changed’ he won’t curl up by your side? You can’t get back that sweet puppy it once was. It will take a ton of real effort to even get close to that again. That doesn’t happen by just avoiding rolled up newspapers (triggers) or thoughts that poor, poor you doesn’t have a sweet dog everyone else seems to have. So you blame the dog for being that way and revise it your head where “you didn’t kick it that often and it wasn’t hard”. The dog is wired wrong obviously… The sweet and nice he once was got beaten out of him by you. 

I also found it got seriously worse as far as my WW’s efforts as time went by. I never got any real help healing, or if it was there, it was lost amongst the long list of ‘poor me’ martyrdom complaints. And now that time has passed? In her mind, the mind of that martyr, she did everything she could but I couldn’t get over it or put it in the past; that "I gave it my all and tried" bull. 

In my head, she never started the reconciliation. She just strengthened her boundaries, worked on her issues, and avoided me; the now untrusting dog. And gosh, the result is that I’m distant, seem somewhat unloving, etc. Just reflecting back how I’m treated: Avoided, unloved, and like I’m going to bite. See how that dynamic works? Try to break it.

Most still have that sweet still inside. You just have to get our perception of you to change. Btw; quickly approaching 6 years post DD.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

Racer, your right. I did not fully attempt the reconcile in the first 2 years out of fear. His anger was so great. I mean I have never seen anyone this angry. And then sad and all over the place. So I was just trying to keep the peace at that point.

As time went on I tried to do whatever he needed me to do and talk, but I would say or do something to make him snap, or something would trigger him and I would be lashed at. I kept asking him to lessen the anger and he felt insulted by it because I put it there. He is a great person. He has always tried to make me happy and put my needs above his. Recently he pointed out that I had a victim mentality. He was right. I do. My first instinct anymore if to be defensive because he has accused me of things I have never done but because there is no trust he says I have to deal with it.

So no. I feel like I have been jumping through hoops losing focus on things I was suppose to take care or or do and then my negative mind takes over. That angered him. 

I am trying now. I have been trying for over 4 years my hardest. But I do fear its too late. He says he cant tell me everything to do. So I am to guess? I feel like I am in a constant state of confusion. He is either yelling at me, stonewalling me and recently I discovered a term for what he does just a little? Gas-lighting. I think, he remembers things that I don't.

At this point I am trying to walk 2 paths here. One to being committed to doing all I can to be a calm, unselfish person. Following his lead. Taking risks because I fail to all the time. Thinking positively. And so on. But for 6 months. And if no improvement after me doing all I can do and changing my mind and me, possibly attracting him, then I will go. 

The other path? School, so I can financially afford to take care of myself and kids without having to be a dependent. This too has come into our fights, how I financially use him and how much support he would have to pay. I worked. I made good money. I already have an education. I left to take care of our kids. But I cant make enough to survive with a flexible schedule for my children. And he is against me going back but if we survive, it will be a financial relief for him, and if we dont, I can do what needs to be done. He says he wont survive if I go to school because I will cheat. I struggle. I have put life on hold for 6 years. 


I want him to heal. I have asked him about forgiving me. In anger I have called him unforgiving. He says I haven't proved I am worth it. I try to talk. He gets frustrated with me. I try to understand. I take it, all the negative comments and yelling, telling myself I deserve it 

We are total opposites. And we both took the 5 languages of love, opposite there too.

I am trying. I am being realistic. I want him happy. I want him healed. He is an amazing man. I miss the old him, but hes dead.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

Racer said:


> My WW?s take on reconciliation was never about me healing, it was about her avoiding. That sort of thinking dooms a reconciliation. It makes her a martyr and me the abusive tormenter.? Oh poor her not being treated as you should treat a wife. She likes seeing herself as a prisoner doing time.
> 
> Jumping on the BH? Sorry, but the way I read the OP?s story reminds me of my WW. Not much in there about what she?s done to help him heal. I mean, stopping the cheating and working on yourself is great and all, but does not address his healing at all. Looks more like she?s a major avoider with martyr ideals.
> 
> ...




Any advice on helping him heal?


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

Happilymarried25 said:


> So you never cheated during your marriage? He is just upset at what you did before you were married?



I had an emotional email affair with a customer i never met. I didnt look at it as cheating until 10 months after d day, fighting etc. I also flirted with a couple guys i worked with early in our relationship.


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## Time4Tea (Feb 8, 2015)

unsureone said:


> Any advice on helping him heal?


I'm not sure I really understand why there is such a huge problem. The things you explained were before marriage and/or while courting but not exclusive. The email emotional engagement, well not great but you never met and you stopped it on your own. Oops, you caved and blew it. Doesn't sound like a deal breaker to me.

I understand that these things might create some issues with trust. But in an otherwise strong relationship I would see it as an opportunity to learn more about each other and to grow.

I'm sure there is way more than could possibly be shared here. If you guys have been messing with other girls a bit, even if just playfully, then there is probably dialog that should have already been had.

There are two questions that keep popping into my mind:
1) Why do each of you want to stay together ?
2) Why is his reaction communication ending anger ?

Another thought, I wouldn't offer him any FFM as an olive branch. In my mind it takes a strong relationship with A LOT of emotional safety and communication before you start playing with others. He may never be able to manage that complexity.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

Time4Tea said:


> unsureone said:
> 
> 
> > Any advice on helping him heal?
> ...



Yes, way more than all here. 

He said he stays for the kids. Me, because I love him. 
Hes so angry that everything frustrates him if it has anything to do with me. 

Part of his problem is my past, which i vaguely told him about when we dated, and now he knows details. He feels he has missed out on so much in life. I have done way more in my past than he has. And i understand that. That's where my attractions to women came up. 

As far as an opportunity. Yes we tried. I never did what he wanted. but he wouldn't or couldn't tell me and would be yelling at me when we went out and then i was to jump at the opportunity for to be freaky? How does one do that?

I am trying to grow thick skin and not fuel his fire anymore. If i didn't feed it I was ignoring it and if I did, I was trying to fight or always saying something stupid.


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## Time4Tea (Feb 8, 2015)

You are a human being.. You come with a myriad of experiences.. Some you relish, perhaps some you would not choose to have as a part of your history, or to repeat.. However, it's the total of these experiences that weaves the tapestry of you today.. 

Despite his anger and inability to engage in threat free dialog you deserve basic respect and a spouse who is willing to hear you and be honest about his intentions.. With you and with himself.. Unfortunately, you cannot control him.. You cannot turn a switch that causes him to engage, or have him decide healing with you is his path.. You may be at that place and he may not.

Perhaps couple counseling with a different therapist would help? But he would need to be willing. Sounds like much work is needed and his complete committment is essential. Is he willing to keep working with outside help, like working to find the right therapist? 

I get the sense you feel a need for occasional others to feel a fulfilled life, be that with women and/or men. Actually, sounds like if he loved you for who you are its a desire for female experience that's missing.That's not an uncommon feeling but if it's something you" need" to actually have happen for a fulfilled life you may need to find a unique and special spouse- unless you feel he can appreciate and love that part of you. If that is you, then it's you. You deserve to be loved for who you are rather than villified. If you had felt safe some of these things would be absolute non issues. In fact, with a partner who loved you as you as you are there may have been far less concern of judgement and much earlier sharing.

Of course kids complicate the picture greatly as does your feeling of love for him - which I hope he can return.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

Time4Tea said:


> You are a human being.. You come with a myriad of experiences.. Some you relish, perhaps some you would not choose to have as a part of your history, or to repeat.. However, it's the total of these experiences that weaves the tapestry of you today..
> 
> Despite his anger and inability to engage in threat free dialog you deserve basic respect and a spouse who is willing to hear you and be honest about his intentions.. With you and with himself.. Unfortunately, you cannot control him.. You cannot turn a switch that causes him to engage, or have him decide healing with you is his path.. You may be at that place and he may not.
> 
> ...



All I miss from my past is the excitement. The freeness. No pressure fun. I understand it is who I am but until all of this, I didnt remember most of it. 

He would never go to another counselor. I wish, but no. 

And I have no desire for other men. I do get noticed, and I feel bad, but I shut it down and give dirty looks etc, but I see this as being respectful to my husband. I think he likes the idea of another woman occasionally, because it is a win win for us. Part of me, likes seeing him in that setting. I know, i am weird. But at least I am being honest about it now. But maybe that's me tying to convince myself. He is a simple man. But he is honest, and has shut down some of my crazy ideas. I do fail to follow through on some ideas and so on. 

I just am to the point I want everyone happy. Him, our kids. Trying not to waste anymore of his time. He is a very good looking man. He is an amazing person. He would be a catch for anyone, and I dont want to lose him, but I feel he deserves to be happy. I dont know if I am to read into his stone walling as his attempt to detach? Prepare for separation. Or he is trying to teach me something? I am trying my hardest. 

As far as feelings and understanding, I dont know how to respond because he did point out I am in a victim mentality. I dont know how to think for myself anymore after all this. It took all I had to post here. I feel completely broken and dead, and I can only imagine how destroyed he feels. He says I am afraid of the hard work. Thats not true. I am just to a place of being so broken and scared emotionally because of the anger.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

You need IC, badly.

He needs it as well.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

From the person you are describing it sounds like he is a BPDer and you are the victim of both Stockholm syndrome and emotional terrorism. For someone who dislikes his marriage so much it appears he is quite content with this unhappiness, despite the fact it seems that he is introducing it for the most part. 

If you did your fooling around well before the marriage and before the two of you got hot and heavy than his remarks are serving only to make him feel better by making you feel worse as any ammo to make you feel like shyt is good ammo to him. Him saying he is around for the kids is a crock as well as I bet he has a huge sense of abandonment IF he is a BPDer. Search out a user called Uptown who is the BPD expert and find some of the threads he has been a part of and see if these BPD traits adhere to you husband.

The pseudo three-way stuff needs to stop as well. as this merely reinforces his disrespect to you. His courageous statements about cheating when the chance arises is a scare tactic and abuse, you deserve better treatment than this, not petty threats from an angry man acting like a fvcking kid.

For now, start on the BPD research and see where the takes you.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

IIJokerII said:


> From the person you are describing it sounds like he is a BPDer and you are the victim of both Stockholm syndrome and emotional terrorism. .


WTF?
Let's see. She, claimed she'd only been with her husband; Virgin story. Thing is, when they broke up for a time, she banged his arch enemy and flirted it up with a few more. Hell, might even be one of those petty revenge things done within days of the breakup to hurt her future husband and 'get him back' for breaking up with her. Regardless, it's hardly the pure virgin she presented. Who knows, maybe she even had her poor husband wait until their wedding night to get his... 

Years pass. This bugs him. He asks again. Who knows how much pressure he's put on her for all those years, but he hasn't trusted her story about her purity. And she admits it. She's also defensive as hell about it. He's deeply hurt. And she probably knows if she'd told him back then, he never would have proposed... 

Regardless... he's vested in this relationship; kids, etc. So he makes an effort to reconcile. She knows how bad lies hurt him, he is hurt and angry; justifiably so since he was lied to about a dealbreaker and is now in a marriage that never should have been had he known. But time has passed and he's bonded to her. Still hurts, he's trying, she's trying. And she knows she had an EA.... but lets not get that out there.

More time passes.. 10 months in R. Then the EA is discovered. That makes it an official False-R. She's lied since day one, presented herself as someone she really isn't. And she's not said anything she's done to actually help the dude. He's sort of pissed off about all of it, distant and cold.

And hmmm.... Massively confused how she can be both the person he most hates and most loves in the world. He's stuck in limbo. Is any of this his fault at all?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Unsure, you should also know we’re about the same. 19 years married, 5.5 post DD. My WW though is a Serial Adulterer. But I don’t know your BH. I just know my own story…

I’d really like to give you some advice to save it. But I don’t know. Basically, I’ve accepted my relationship, in Hallmark terms of endearment, is dead. So the relationship with my wife changed from ‘romantic love’ to ‘love of a family member’. That’s a big difference since you can continue to love your parents or child without really seeing eye to eye or thinking it’s you and them against the world. That’s just sort of how I see her now; as an individual. 

Fair or not, it’s how she’s acted and treated our relationship. So I’m merely accepting the terms and limitations of the offer. And she feels “alone”… well duh. She pretty much didn’t want me meddling in ‘her life’, so I let her have it and took back mine. 

I should also note Unsure, that she’s somewhat like you. She understands she screwed up badly in the R. She failed. And she sure as hell isn’t going recover when her focus still seems to be trying like mad to try and shift that blame or excuse why she didn’t or any number of ‘not my fault’ courses of action. What she forgets, because she is completely self-centered, is that what she thinks or blames or whatever doesn’t matter one single bit. *It is what I think that she needs to address.* Marriage takes two. She wants her side of it… it is me that doesn’t so she damn well better convince me that she is what I want. That isn’t going to happen by placing herself first and foremost or lying or hiding behind a mask or doing anything at all that appears to be anything less than just being herself. You can even hurt your character further by bending over backwards to please what you think I want… Sounds off, but no one wants a doormat or stepford wife beyond fantasy delusions. The reality is you can’t respect them. You need to be you, flaws and all. He needs to see you working on those flaws, not covering them up or shifting them to be someone elses. He may even want to help you. 

Another tidbit. After 20 years, we do actually know you. That’s why the bull pisses us off. So using the sleeping with his arch enemy thing. My wife, probably like you, would severely down play it; drunk, lonely because you broke my heart, etc. I know her; She is a vindictive person. Part of her doing that would be to ‘get me back’ because she knew it would hurt. Guess what? That truth, because it fits into whom I already know her to be, I can understand and accept better than the bull she is trying to sell. Really do not think you are so f’n good at your fake façade that we haven’t seen your monster. We have, and while we may not love it, have actually accepted it. Admitting that you have monsters isn't really as scary or a turn off as you probably think it is.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

Racer said:


> WTF?
> Let's see. She, claimed she'd only been with her husband; Virgin story. Thing is, when they broke up for a time, she banged his arch enemy and flirted it up with a few more. Hell, might even be one of those petty revenge things done within days of the breakup to hurt her future husband and 'get him back' for breaking up with her. Regardless, it's hardly the pure virgin she presented. Who knows, maybe she even had her poor husband wait until their wedding night to get his...
> 
> Years pass. This bugs him. He asks again. Who knows how much pressure he's put on her for all those years, but he hasn't trusted her story about her purity. And she admits it. She's also defensive as hell about it. He's deeply hurt. And she probably knows if she'd told him back then, he never would have proposed...
> ...


Never once did I claim to be a vigin. Not once. I even told him my number, I did not tell all the details. Even told him of abuse I had been through. We had sex. We waited a little bit but we did, alot. So its not like he wasnt getting any.

And I have tried to bend over backwards. Through hoops. He said he needed fun and excitement, yet it was subjective to what it was. He couldn't tell me or it wasn't fun and if I did not produce what he called fun, I wasnt trying hard enough. If I didnt save money I wasnt trying hard enough even though there were huge bills paid off. If I did anything for myself, it was being selfish. If I just wanted to sit and cry all day it was selfish. If I exercise, selfish. yet he told me to ...to lose weight and when I did he became suspicions of why. If I made friends it was for us, and if I made one for me it was me living more life than him. So I give up everything including my family and its me being extreme. He never told me to, but if I did, I would be hearing how awful my family was. It took me a while to catch on, but we had major fights whenever I was to go do anything. Its been insane. I have tried to talk to him and it only frustrates him if I say something he thinks is stupid or irrelevant. I am in a constant state of confusion and using this time being stone walled to think for myself. I am not allowed to talk to anyone about any of this. If I dont know what to do or think I should give up, its me not doing anything. 

And back to the virgin thing, I did not say hey, I was a teen who went to a party and hey got drunk or tried drugs and was pretty easily taken advantage of and it happened more than I care to admit. Do people really do that when they date? This is the only relationship we both have been in. 

I mean hes a great guy. Hes angry, and rightfully so. But the words and ways he sees the past now, i will never understand. 

Even today I tried to send him a message asking him a question and I was met with how I was being a victim. I cant even be up front and honest without hearing.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You have no intimacy. Can you give him massages without any obligation on his part?


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

naiveonedave said:


> You need IC, badly.
> 
> He needs it as well.




Whats IC?


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## Time4Tea (Feb 8, 2015)

Wow, there are some angry folks here. 

Unsureone, unless someone here actually knows you try not to accept their misdirected anger. There are at least two stories, yours and your husbands, and only the two of you can tell those stories. I hope you don't get baited by the angry people and wind up having this forum feel unsafe too. If you find a reply needs to be defensive I'd suggest just skipping it.

Regarding the help you came seeking, I think you guys need professional help. Therapists see these dances all day long. They can be a safe place to talk and learn to understand each other. neither of you want him to be on the edge of a rage, and hopefully he only wants the best for you. Unless you are both quite psychologically minded I would early suggest searching for help. Keep looking until you find someone you both connect with. 

Are you familiar with the Gottman Institute? They do weekend workshops for couples that can be really helpful. They provide take home tools to use when you find yourself heading into old destructive patterns. There are therapists that use Gottman work as a foundation so everyone is understanding.

I have no interest in Gottman. We've just found it helpful. One of the many things we do to invest in our relationship.

No matter what the situation you deserve respect, zero accusations, zero rage, no name calling and a spouse who will work with you. If he won't work with you for your shared relationship I fear you don't really have a romantic relationship. He may be a great guy - there are a lot of great guys. Most of us treat the women in our life well even when they screw up. Even if the relationship is doomed to fail it does not justify abusive behavior.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

He won't do therapy. At all. He not like most. He is very sure of his thoughts and i have asked. We tried.. prefers us. 

I just needed see if I was crazy. I kept telling myself I deserve all the name calling. All the anger directed at me. I have no problem admitting i wrong until i feel attacked. And then its my instinct. 

I understand there are lots of emotions here. Everyone has their story. This whole situation has made me see people different. I try very hard to be in their shoes. 

Today I tried to talk to him. And everything i say/do is guilty until i can prove innocent. He told that once. 

I am going to keep posting as needed. Work on myself. He has no desire to work on us. Even today he told me i had my chances. Then told me all i did wrong. 

I don't think I will stay much longer like this. I am no longer afraid. I just worry about the kids. And i do take care of his disabled mom. She lives with us. I asked him if his love changed for me. His answer, he didn't know. I know he has abandoned me. My grandma died recently too. He gave a few hugs. Few words. Thats it. Huge eye opener. I even didnt find time for us during this. He got mad me for not having us go out. I couldn't believe it. Who can have fun when the woman who helped raise you is dying? 

Maybe it's all he could do? Maybe i should not judge him.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> You have no intimacy. Can you give him massages without any obligation on his part?



He wants nothing to do with me. Hes not attracted to liars and cheaters. That's what he tells me when i try to offer anything.


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## Time4Tea (Feb 8, 2015)

Perhaps you can reply that you also are not attracted to liars and cheaters, and certainly understand why he wouldn't be. Then suggest you see a professional to help you both understand the current wedge. If he won't do anything other than insult you - why stay together?I've seen friends say it's for the kids. Most of those kids would have been better off if the parents split. Instead they got hateful households, ruiness role models, and couldn't wait to move out - leaving just the marrieds alone with each other who then split. Life is too short for that.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

Time4Tea said:


> Perhaps you can reply that you also are not attracted to liars and cheaters, and certainly understand why he wouldn't be. Then suggest you see a professional to help you both understand the current wedge. If he won't do anything other than insult you - why stay together?I've seen friends say it's for the kids. Most of those kids would have been better off if the parents split. Instead they got hateful households, ruiness role models, and couldn't wait to move out - leaving just the marrieds alone with each other who then split. Life is too short for that.



Good point. I can try. My new approach is opening my mouth a asking for what i want and/or need. Taking risks. Not accepting being yelled at. An up front and HONEST.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

IIJokerII said:


> From the person you are describing it sounds like he is a BPDer and you are the victim of both Stockholm syndrome and emotional terrorism. For someone who dislikes his marriage so much it appears he is quite content with this unhappiness, despite the fact it seems that he is introducing it for the most part.
> 
> If you did your fooling around well before the marriage and before the two of you got hot and heavy than his remarks are serving only to make him feel better by making you feel worse as any ammo to make you feel like shyt is good ammo to him. Him saying he is around for the kids is a crock as well as I bet he has a huge sense of abandonment IF he is a BPDer. Search out a user called Uptown who is the BPD expert and find some of the threads he has been a part of and see if these BPD traits adhere to you husband.
> 
> ...


I have wondered about the BPD and never thought S


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

Racer said:


> Unsure, you should also know we?re about the same. 19 years married, 5.5 post DD. My WW though is a Serial Adulterer. But I don?t know your BH. I just know my own story?
> 
> I?d really like to give you some advice to save it. But I don?t know. Basically, I?ve accepted my relationship, in Hallmark terms of endearment, is dead. So the relationship with my wife changed from ?romantic love? to ?love of a family member?. That?s a big difference since you can continue to love your parents or child without really seeing eye to eye or thinking it?s you and them against the world. That?s just sort of how I see her now; as an individual.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your comments. May I ask why you stay? If your miserable? I dont want him miserable. He deserves to be happy. Hindsight i definitely 20/20


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Your husband is an a$$hole. I think the sins you committed before marriage plus your EA has been paid in full many times over with giving your husband women to sleep with plus sacrificing everything for his wounded ego. You need to leave him. How loving could he be if he demands more excitement from you with no guidance and a temper?


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Time4Tea said:


> I'm not sure I really understand why there is such a huge problem. The things you explained were before marriage and/or while courting but not exclusive. The email emotional engagement, well not great but you never met and you stopped it on your own. Oops, you caved and blew it. Doesn't sound like a deal breaker to me.
> 
> I understand that these things might create some issues with trust. But in an otherwise strong relationship I would see it as an opportunity to learn more about each other and to grow.
> 
> ...


who said they weren't exclusive at the time ? who said they weren't married either ?


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

unsureone said:


> Never once did I claim to be a vigin. Not once. I even told him my number, I did not tell all the details. Even told him of abuse I had been through. We had sex. We waited a little bit but we did, alot. So its not like he wasnt getting any.
> 
> And I have tried to bend over backwards. Through hoops. He said he needed fun and excitement, yet it was subjective to what it was. He couldn't tell me or it wasn't fun and if I did not produce what he called fun, I wasnt trying hard enough. If I didnt save money I wasnt trying hard enough even though there were huge bills paid off. If I did anything for myself, it was being selfish. If I just wanted to sit and cry all day it was selfish. If I exercise, selfish. yet he told me to ...to lose weight and when I did he became suspicions of why. If I made friends it was for us, and if I made one for me it was me living more life than him. So I give up everything including my family and its me being extreme. He never told me to, but if I did, I would be hearing how awful my family was. It took me a while to catch on, but we had major fights whenever I was to go do anything. Its been insane. I have tried to talk to him and it only frustrates him if I say something he thinks is stupid or irrelevant. I am in a constant state of confusion and using this time being stone walled to think for myself. I am not allowed to talk to anyone about any of this. If I dont know what to do or think I should give up, its me not doing anything.
> 
> ...



I agree your H needs to chill.

he needs anger management help as well.

You need to let him know you have been loyal (assuming you have) for 6 years and suffered greatly, you love him and you want this to work but it won't unless he chills and sees you for being the most important person in your life and vice versa. 

I don't know why you did what you did early and it was wrong. Just tell him you learned and want only him and ask him if that's the same with him.

His statement about not passing up opportunities is complete BS and horrible for him to say. Tell him if he cheats, he's out.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

unsureone said:


> Thank you for your comments. May I ask why you stay? If your miserable? I dont want him miserable. He deserves to be happy. Hindsight i definitely 20/20


I'm not miserable. If I was, I'd go. I still have no idea why people assume that if you aren't experiencing puppy love and romantic walks down the beach that you must be miserable. 

Think of it this way. Before you were married, whether living at your parents, or with roommates, you probably weren't miserable. A good wife doesn't have to be the only way you can be happy. They don't own the exclusive rights to it. 

And it's also a mindset. Only I can allow myself to be miserable... she can't 'make me'. That comes with that distance and cutting the emotional hose to her.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

To say that I am thoroughly confused here is an understatement. I will try and understand what your are saying and hope that you can confirm if I understood it right or else correct my understanding. I cannot for the life of me see where you have cheated or lied and therefore cannot understand why you are accepting of his anger and abuse!


So when you two started to date, you had much more experience than him.


During your dating and before you got married, when you and he had a bust-up and separated, you slept with someone he is jealous of, hates, is insecure around etc.


During this period of dating and before you got married, you also flirted with some guys.


You had an emotional affair with a customer but didn't even know it was an emotional affair (before you were married ?)


You "play" (whatever that means) with other girls in the same room with him (for both of your entertainment) and he seems to like it but cannot cope.


You had a great relationship (marriage?) and for some inexplicable reason, 7 years ago, he asks if you slept with anyone else (ever?) - what an absurd question to ask unless I am missing something (you never told him that you were a virgin) and why would he assume that. Don't understand this and probably missing something.


He pressed for details (from before you were married) and when you told him (I would have told him to fvck off), he got angry that you were "freer" with people in your past. Does this not sound really strange to you? How can you be attracted to this weirdo?

And he is angry with you for all of this!?!?!? And you are accepting of this and want to calm him (WTF)!!! I must be missing something here.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Unsureone
> I want him to heal. I have asked him about forgiving me. In anger I have called him unforgiving. He says I haven't proved I am worth it. I try to talk. He gets frustrated with me. I try to understand. I take it, all the negative comments and yelling, telling myself I deserve it
> 
> He wants nothing to do with me. Hes not attracted to liars and cheaters. That's what he tells me when i try to offer anything


. 


You have tried foir 6 years to appease him and nothing is working. My suggestion is to make a plan for you to seperate from him and leave him a well thought out letter explaining why you are seperating. Do not attack him but just state that you greatly desire him but realize that everything you do to try and get him to forgive you and to be a loving couple has failed
Tell him that it is with deep regret that you are seperating from him and that with your whoile being that you wanted to reconcile with him and have a good life together. However, you are forced to face reality and make another life for yourself. You realize that you both are very miserable in the marriage and that is not good for anyone including the children. 

I realize that this is suggestiog you to do a very drastic action but it seems that you are deteriorating towards the point that you will be no gooid to youtrself or anyone else if your situation continues much longer. If your situation was just a year or two I can see hanging in there but you have over 6 YEARS of misery!

You have to be willing to go through with your plan even if that means starting a new life without him. However, your actions can be a large enough jolt for him to break away from his hard and ridged resentments. He is not going to change by you almost begging him to forgive you and love you. It is a big gamble but I do not see anything else that has a chance of changing his resentments of you, do you? You cannot go through life being so unsure.

Your husband has a hard heart and does not know the value of forgiveness for him, for you, and his children. It will take a very strong crises to jolt him enough to give him a chance to do something that is so much more positive for all than for him to run you down and have resentments against you. 

You will have to use that plan for you to get stronger and you will probabaly need help and several months or maybe even years. You have not even lived half your life so make that long range plan for you to become much more self sufficient and able to see your worth and to stand up against your husbands disrepect and lack of appreciation of you.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

the only thing I would say to you is---at what level of misery do you wish to spend the rest of your life, in?????

At this point in time, you need to think of one thing and one thing only----your kids----the 2 of you, the way you are now----are destroying your kids----I don't know whether the 2 of you attempt very hard to hide what is going on---but I can tell you----THEY KNOW THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG---and if they are typical kids---THEY ARE BLAMING THEMSELVES, FOR THE MISERY THEY LIVE IN----EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THEIR LIVES!!!!!!

Is that misery to be the LEGACY YOU LEAVE TO YOUR KIDS

Face it your mge, is done----end it get the D, and move on---and at least let the kids live in 2 half way happy homes---instead of one home where MISERY IS KING!!!!!!!


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> To say that I am thoroughly confused here is an understatement. I will try and understand what your are saying and hope that you can confirm if I understood it right or else correct my understanding. I cannot for the life of me see where you have cheated or lied and therefore cannot understand why you are accepting of his anger and abuse!
> 
> 
> So when you two started to date, you had much more experience than him.
> ...


*I am so confused myself, so its totally understandable.

*Yes, per say. I was a teen who couldn't hold my liquor, still cant. And I was easily taken advantage of. I may have done the deed, but all the stuff that goes with it, was only with my H. He appreciated that in the beginning. But after D Day, and after all the details given, it really affected him and made him angry and jealous. He never did anything with anyone else. EVER. and did not tell me this until after D day. 

*Yes, he was jealous of this friend who I was friends with before we dated. And I slept with him when we broke up. 

*Yes, in the first 2 years I flirted with a few guys. I thought nothing of it, to be honest. It wasnt like I was all over them. Through all this, I have learned that there is a huge difference is how each person views flirting. 

*Yes, I had an emotional email affair. It was after our first child was born. Lonely, unwanted. Different shift. I did not feel all that great about myself, not making an excuse. Explaining my mind set. I set some of my customer pictures of my new kid and I was in one. He commented on how mom looked cute, and it went from there. I stopped when he wanted to meet. We did talk of our marriages and sex. But I knew it was wrong, just not cheating. I told H that I had a customer who wanted to meet, scared me and I asked another rep to take care of that customer. I wasnt up front. But he didnt ask more. He just asked if I had it taken care of. Thats it. I grew up with cheating parents, and thought it was only cheating if physical. That was my mind set anyway.

*We have played with few girls, and sex with one, but together, not a 3 some style though. Because we were both into that. He didnt like any of the rules I put on the situations, that made me feel safe and secure. They were pretty simple. The last one, the rules were to not tell me what to do, as I wanted to do things on my own. Expressed my feeling of wanted to make sure this was where I was in life, bi. That made it less fun for him. I was telling him what to do and limited his life experience this way. So confusing. 

* We had an Ok relationship. I never stood up to him. Always afraid of conflict. I was very upfront - and it was obvious I was not a virgin. As for us I was happy for the most part. After kids, I felt totally alone. I built up resentment towards him though. I didnt realize that when you express why you felt the way you did, it can come across as blaming the other person. I see that now. And during discovery time, I felt attacked. And after about 2 years of going though hours of drilling and yelling and all, I snapped. something in me snapped and I began attacking him back. 

*He pressed me until I felt I needed to give the details. He wanted to redo all the things so my memories were with him. At the time, it seemed like a great idea. A fun one, but it became pressure filled. I cant explain it, opposites attract, and we are extreme opposites. I love him. There has always been something about him that attracts me to him. 

*I think he regrets not living a freer life when he was young. He says he regrets me as well, and that part hurts. I feel like he has angry hurt blinders on. I know he is jealous as well. and thats hard for me to understand because I am not a jealous person naturally. I mean, if he was having sex with someone without me, yeah I would be. But over all, I am not wired that way. 


I am just coming out of the fog really.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

IC = therapy for you, to help you see things more clearly (individual counseling)

These situations where you have sex with another woman is border line cheating on your husband. Especially if he is not getting anything and feels/felt coerced into it. Your description of the rules make me think he was not into this at all. 

He probably feels like you are a cheater and are trying to rug sweep stuff.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

Mr Blunt said:


> .
> 
> 
> You have tried foir 6 years to appease him and nothing is working. My suggestion is to make a plan for you to seperate from him and leave him a well thought out letter explaining why you are seperating. Do not attack him but just state that you greatly desire him but realize that everything you do to try and get him to forgive you and to be a loving couple has failed
> ...


I am starting my plan. He said if I go back to school we will not survive, I said I need to, because I need to support my kids and myself after they go to college if we dont make it and if we do, i would be contributing to our family. I am pretty open about going back. He does not like it because he is convinced I will find someone to cheat with. I have all day to go find someone to cheat with if I really wanted to, so why go to school and do that? 
I think he thinks I will never have the guts to leave, but I have my parents to help me. 
They are waiting for me to say the word. 

Its so strange how different everything is when you start to come out of it all. When there is silence.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

jnj express said:


> the only thing I would say to you is---at what level of misery do you wish to spend the rest of your life, in?????
> 
> At this point in time, you need to think of one thing and one thing only----your kids----the 2 of you, the way you are now----are destroying your kids----I don't know whether the 2 of you attempt very hard to hide what is going on---but I can tell you----THEY KNOW THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG---and if they are typical kids---THEY ARE BLAMING THEMSELVES, FOR THE MISERY THEY LIVE IN----EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THEIR LIVES!!!!!!
> 
> ...


I am facing it, thats its over. Trying to look at him as a room mate now. And yes, the kids are my main concern. He thinks its better for the to be in 2 parent home, and our son is already so affected by it. He is always asking me if we are going to get a divorce. And gets upset. He wants us together. But spending weekends fighting. And the things he says and calls me withing their earshot? No. No more. They deserve better. We deserve better. And if he thinks our marriage wasnt really a relationship because of those things that have happened, then what are we trying to save? Thats what I am thinking about now.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

naiveonedave said:


> IC = therapy for you, to help you see things more clearly (individual counseling)
> 
> These situations where you have sex with another woman is border line cheating on your husband. Especially if he is not getting anything and feels/felt coerced into it. Your description of the rules make me think he was not into this at all.
> 
> He probably feels like you are a cheater and are trying to rug sweep stuff.


I tried therapy, it was too expensive and I had to hear how expensive it was. And as far at the women, he was all for it. His rules were to not do it without him. And I never did. I wasnt comfortable doing it without him at all. He was totally involved. But I now see why it needs to be in a strong relationship where you can openly talk about your fears and not have them turned into something else. Honestly I have always felt an attraction to certain women, and have been hit on by several. But denied it. And when I came to him with it, he was all for it. Loved it. So I dont know if I agree with that. Part of my excitement was seeing him with her as well. I think because I could see him differently? I dont know. I am so messed up right now. I dont know what to think. I know I am not exploring that again for a long time if even again.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Your husband is an a$$hole. I think the sins you committed before marriage plus your EA has been paid in full many times over with giving your husband women to sleep with plus sacrificing everything for his wounded ego. You need to leave him. How loving could he be if he demands more excitement from you with no guidance and a temper?



I question this now. He really wasnt this way before. He was very very loving. Maybe the anger has consumed his heart?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Unsure, I'm questioning what the true reason for your husband's current situation. The more you write, the less it seems to have anything to do with your EA and more to do with the notion that you have more sexual experiences with him. Add on top of that you slept with someone your H was jealous of. What's that about? I noticed you did not use "enemy" or "rival", because that implies that you (or your husband) was not perceived as an equal to this other guy but was actually jealous of this guy's status vs your husband's. 

What does all of the abuse focus on? Is any of it related to the EA that you had with your customer while you were married to your H? Or is all of it focused on this one guy he hated when you two were broken up? I don't recall seeing this mentioned, but at the time you two first got back together after the breakup, did your H as if you slept with anyone else and who? Did you lie to him and told him that you didn't or did he never ask? Not bashing you for sleeping with this guy after a breakup because if it was an actual breakup, and he did not inquire about what you did during the breakup as a condition to resume the relationship, then he's to blame for not getting all the facts.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Unsure, I'm questioning what the true reason for your husband's current situation. The more you write, the less it seems to have anything to do with your EA and more to do with the notion that you have more sexual experiences with him. Add on top of that you slept with someone your H was jealous of. What's that about? I noticed you did not use "enemy" or "rival", because that implies that you (or your husband) was not perceived as an equal to this other guy but was actually jealous of this guy's status vs your husband's.
> 
> What does all of the abuse focus on? Is any of it related to the EA that you had with your customer while you were married to your H? Or is all of it focused on this one guy he hated when you two were broken up? I don't recall seeing this mentioned, but at the time you two first got back together after the breakup, did your H as if you slept with anyone else and who? Did you lie to him and told him that you didn't or did he never ask? Not bashing you for sleeping with this guy after a breakup because if it was an actual breakup, and he did not inquire about what you did during the breakup as a condition to resume the relationship, then he's to blame for not getting all the facts.


Yeah most of his anger seems to be about my past and how I treat him. He said I treat him like a monster. And yes my EA and the other guy are always thrown at me plus the past. How all I want is drugs and guys who go after little girls etc. It's awful. I have to hear how all the things I did were way more than they really were and if I say that, I am defending my past and so on.

This guy from the breakup was my friend. People sleep with their friends all the time. No. He never asked. I didn't ask him. 

I have admitted, accepted, and owned all my wrong doings. Not at first, but he insists there is more.

I am in no way a saint. But I am always asked what have I done for this relationship. I can not say kids, work, anything like that. Apparently my part was fun because I am a fun person. That blows my mind. After many attempts at answering. ..and having them disected. I stopped even answering saying I don't know. Because I dont. I am so clouded by the verbal abuse. I am not trying to be a complainer or woes me. Just need a safe place to talk. Clear my thoughts and know I am not crazy. I keep asking myself if I would of done everything picture perfect in his head to reconscile, would we still be at this part because of the anger?


As far as the other guy, he was very jealous of him because of our friendship. Maybe I did it to hurt him?, but if that was the case wouldn't you tell that person? So I think it was just to do it. I used to be easily persuaded.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

unsureone said:


> Yeah most of his anger seems to be about my past and how I treat him. He said I treat him like a monster. And yes my EA and the other guy are always thrown at me plus the past. How all I want is drugs and guys who go after little girls etc. It's awful. I have to hear how all the things I did were way more than they really were and if I say that, I am defending my past and so on.
> 
> This guy from the breakup was my friend. People sleep with their friends all the time. No. He never asked. I didn't ask him.
> 
> ...


If I understand this correctly, your husband is fixating on your past. I understand that you did not tell him about the guy you had sex with that was a friend and who also made your H jealous, but evidently there were other things that you did in your past that has really upset your H. I find strange, but it seems like the EA is not the major issue here. It's all about what you did when you lived your life up until you got married vs what he did with his time up until marriage.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

unsureone said:


> *He*did not know any of this until 7 years ago when he asked me if I ever slept with someone else. *I admitted it.


Sorry, I think I misunderstood this line with the virgin comment. As I understand it now, the question was specific to whether or not you'd slept with this particular person (your friend he didn't like).

Also got to ask, even with his suspicions, did you stay friends with that guy? How long? Still in contact?

Some of that might answer why your husband is holding onto it so hard.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Three things need some attention here: wife, husband and marriage. If one of these things is neglected, the marriage will limp along until it eventually dies. I am not certain how responsible you are for your DH's emotional wounds, but he appears stuck in the basic unfairness of betrayal. Reconciliation requires the betrayed partner work to fix something they did not break. Some people are willing to do this work, others are not. If you can recognize the difference, you can make a decision and you can move forward. Kindest Regards-


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

It sounds like you are leaning the right way as far as this situation goes----

Your H does not get a say, in this matter----BUT FOR ---his cheating this would not be happening----no matter what, your kids WILL GET BETTER, away from the toxic relationship that is your current mge.------things will improve when you split up to two homes---where there is NO MISERY AND FIGHTING----DAY AFTER DAY

Again---your H does not get a say in this matter!!!!!!!!!


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

Racer said:


> Sorry, I think I misunderstood this line with the virgin comment. As I understand it now, the question was specific to whether or not you'd slept with this particular person (your friend he didn't like).
> 
> Also got to ask, even with his suspicions, did you stay friends with that guy? How long? Still in contact?
> 
> Some of that might answer why your husband is holding onto it so hard.


Well, the other guy got into trouble and was sent away. I did write to him once, but he wanted nothing to do with me. I did not know until all this turmoil, my H threatened hum and told him to sty away from me. So he did. And he never wrote back. I did talk to him once when he came back, and he was just not him. So I stopped trying. We were good friends before all this. And as wrong as it was, I did not tell H until after d day. I spilled every wrong doing I have ever done after all this.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

Jung_admirer said:


> Three things need some attention here: wife, husband and marriage. If one of these things is neglected, the marriage will limp along until it eventually dies. I am not certain how responsible you are for your DH's emotional wounds, but he appears stuck in the basic unfairness of betrayal. Reconciliation requires the betrayed partner work to fix something they did not break. Some people are willing to do this work, others are not. If you can recognize the difference, you can make a decision and you can move forward. Kindest Regards-


I feel I did not know how to handle the anger. And I took it, for 2 years and then became angry myself. I am passive aggressive so it built up. After 2 years of trying, he took off his ring and basically tried minimal. Threw it all on me. He claims he is doing the best he can, just keeping his cool is trying, and I see that now. But I dont know if there is anything I can do at this point. I myself got stuck in a few different cycles. Or its so strange when you are finally feeling like you are connecting and getting somewhere and bam! He snaps and tells you your doing nothing even when your trying your hardest. It crushes me every time. Does that sound like someone not trying? Looking back, no. It sounds like someone giving her all and really believing it can work being hopeful. But one cant do it themselves.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

jnj express said:


> It sounds like you are leaning the right way as far as this situation goes----
> 
> Your H does not get a say, in this matter----BUT FOR ---his cheating this would not be happening----no matter what, your kids WILL GET BETTER, away from the toxic relationship that is your current mge.------things will improve when you split up to two homes---where there is NO MISERY AND FIGHTING----DAY AFTER DAY
> 
> Again---your H does not get a say in this matter!!!!!!!!!


I wont stay if he cheats. Its premeditated? And would be for pay back purposes, though he says its because he needs to "live life". He knows this. I already told him. And I am accepting his stonewalling or coldness? Because not fighting is allowing me to gain clarity. And I refuse to fight anymore. Because our kids deserve better. Kinda living like room mates now. I dont know how long it will last, but I am trying to be strong and remind myself that I am in control of my feelings, and thought and actions and I will walk away if he starts. No more weekends fighting. Done.


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## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

unsureone said:


> I wont stay if he cheats. Its premeditated? And would be for pay back purposes, though he says its because he needs to "live life". He knows this. I already told him. And I am accepting his stonewalling or coldness? Because not fighting is allowing me to gain clarity. And I refuse to fight anymore. Because our kids deserve better. Kinda living like room mates now. I dont know how long it will last, but I am trying to be strong and remind myself that I am in control of my feelings, and thought and actions and I will walk away if he starts. No more weekends fighting. Done.


********************************************************I dont know you are your husband..but as a Bh i do know how men think...I would wager he cannot get over how you were with other men and the sex you had during your break up...

Im sure he suspected but when you confirmed it...he could not let it go...Close?

The trouble with most men..BHs...Betrayed fiances...or just a boyfriend...No matter what you do or say .you can never unfu#k the OM or Men..To MOST men that is a dealbreaker ..we simply cannot cope with those choices...Right or wrong...most just cant...

Your situation is IMHO what happens to most Betrayed men...they go into R KNOWING da&n good and well they will Never over the actions of their WWs or WGFs...they know it..
Months and years go by...they remain angry,,hurt and will not let it go..As i have said ..at this point BOTH parties are in hell..
and both will stay until one cannot stand the pain any longer..

Most Rs i have seen fail...and they end up doing what they should have done years before..Divorce..

I knew i could not ever R with my WW and would NEVER forget her A...I filed for d and never looked back...

If this is how most attempts at R are...you can bloody well keep it...


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

badkarma2013 said:


> unsureone said:
> 
> 
> > I wont stay if he cheats. Its premeditated? And would be for pay back purposes, though he says its because he needs to "live life". He knows this. I already told him. And I am accepting his stonewalling or coldness? Because not fighting is allowing me to gain clarity. And I refuse to fight anymore. Because our kids deserve better. Kinda living like room mates now. I dont know how long it will last, but I am trying to be strong and remind myself that I am in control of my feelings, and thought and actions and I will walk away if he starts. No more weekends fighting. Done.
> ...


What's IMHO?

Are you happier divorced? I just want him happy at this point.

He said he can't let it go until I prove myself worthy. Whatever that means for the week? It changes all the time based on where he is.

He knew I had sex before I even met him. I told him how many. Upfront. Just not details. And yes. The other guy was when we broke up after 4 months? The 2nd time breaking up?

I regret everything. I wish I could take ALL his pain.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

imho = in my honest opinon.

He sees the break up as you deciding to get it on with the OM, whether that is the true story or not, it is to him. I think. I think he triggers when you have girl to girl time.


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## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

unsureone said:


> What's IMHO?
> 
> Are you happier divorced? I just want him happy at this point.
> 
> ...


******************************************************
To answer your first question ..YES!!! the thought of spending another minute with someone who lied ..deceived and betrayed me..made me sick...so yes..

Look Im am only trying to explain ( as a BH and a Man) how he may feel..It is not about you...you sound like you have paid enough penance for all of us...

Im sorry but it sounds like he does not want to R but to punish you....and he is wrong...If one cannot R (as i mentioned in above post)..let them go...and file...

To R one has to forgive and work a Better marriage not the same marriage but hopefully a New and Better one..If you cannot and choose to remain angry and bitter ,,and be someone who wants to punish...you NEED TO LEAVE...

I knew I could not forgive and forget so I filed for D...And I have been the better for it..


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

naiveonedave said:


> imho = in my honest opinon.
> 
> He sees the break up as you deciding to get it on with the OM, whether that is the true story or not, it is to him. I think. I think he triggers when you have girl to girl time.


Actually he gets angry at me in the girl girl mode because I am not aggressive. Its a very strange situation.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

unsureone said:


> This guy from the breakup was my friend. People sleep with their friends all the time.


No. They actually don't. In your group, maybe. Mine and maybe your Hs, friends don't sleep with each other at all.

This speaks worlds about how you view life as opposed to your husband.

You both have radically different values and it doesn't sound like you worked out those differences before becoming serious.

I am not slamming you, but if we had broken up and you slept with a "friend" just for the hell of it, I would have never looked your way again. Different values.

I believe that your Hs pain and anger are tied to your breakup and hookup with your "friend". Your subsequent flirting and cheating (EA), only continued to destroy the already shaky foundation of your relationship.

If you would, please relate how your breakups went, why, how, how long, who over, were toxic friends involved, parents, how old were you? How did your relationship develop with your "friend", did you start dating, was it a moment of weakness, one time hookup, many sexual encounters, when did you stop and how did it coincide with you getting back together with your H?

Also. You said he started asking questions about 7 years ago? What was the pivotal reason? Did he have doubt all that time?

You said he seemed fine until 7 years ago? What caused the eruption?

Was that when he finally discovered your EA?

He might well believe his life with you has been a total lie. Can you see things from his perspective?

He finds out about an EA about 13 years into marriage with you that was never confessed, starts questioning everything about your past and finds out that you have been, at least in the beginning, doing things to destroy trust and rip your relationship down. Having sex with someone your BF has always been jealous of is a horrible idea if you want to get back with him ever. Not telling him about it until after you are married many years after you have been discovered cheating on him is simply devastating.
Then flirting as well. 

He doesn't have a very good picture of you. Can you understand why he thinks worse than actually happened?

I agree that you should work on yourself and calmly reassure him anytime he is upset or insecure. He needs to stop having any outburst in front of the kids. You need to put your foot down there. He should be able to vent and express with you, but not in front of the kids.

If he won't restrain himself, at least in front of your children then you need to pack up and leave for a time.

Your H does need IC to at least isolate the focal point of his anger and pain so that it can be addressed. You need something to go on. You sound willing to change and according to what I have read, you need to in order to match your Hs value system.

Your H needs to understand that your marriage will end if he does not get help to at least give you a direction to work. You seem willing but you have nothing put in front of you to work with.

Eliminate any thought of bringing other women into your relationship. As said earlier, your marriage is already unhealthy and screwing other people is not helping. You have also exhibited terrible boundaries. That is an area where you will need a lot of work.

You do need to interact with others to practice good boundaries but you are going to have to be able to talk with your H about everything openly. Until he gets his issues nailed down, I don't see open communication on the table.

When you do interact with others, it is inevitable, you must avoid obvious triggers, people you have had sex with, or people that helped you promote a lifestyle that your H is struggling with now.

My wife never cheated but I am jealous and she does not get to hang out with anyone she has ever had sex with, same rule goes for me.

Wishing you well.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> No. They actually don't. In your group, maybe. Mine and maybe your Hs, friends don't sleep with each other at all.
> 
> My group did. I am sure it was not the norm, looking back. This is how I was raised, so I thought it was the way it was. No excuses, I see it is NOT the way it should be
> 
> ...


I am to the point of giving up. On focusing on being a better person. I cant do it alone. He says if he stays with me he needs things in life, to compare to my past. His reasoning for saying he is not passing any opportunities. I truly believe he is keeping me here for the kids I asked him last week if we were done and he said he didnt know where we were, then not being able to produce a list, when he said he would, tells me he is done or making me pay. Either way, its not good. He is shutting me out. Only responding. thats it. His comment on that was I dont deserve more. I think I am to my point. I have to wake up every day and remind myself he dont love me anymore. SO I can continue on following his lead. 

I made it this way. I own it. I made terrible choices. I didnt reconcile well. We have been together since we were 17. I think at this point I just need to set him free. God says he can leave whenever because I cheated and because he is a non believer. I am to let the non believer go. Problem is, he wants me here because he feels our son cant handle it yet. What about all the fighting?

We do thing separate for the most part. Big things for the kids, we do together, but he says he needs to be himself and he cant do that with me around. I think back, the past 7 years, every holiday, every birthday, anniversary, vacation. All but a hand full of date nights. All all anger filled. And I am told I see no good in anything but I swear with all I AM, I TRIED! I keep asking God everyday why I am still here. I love him, I love him so much that I do feel he needs free of me. When I have asked him if he would be happier without me, he says no, but it may be heading that way. What does one do with that when your not given anything to work with? Its almost like he is making sure I suffer and pay He says no, but then if I am to do anything, he says I am not to live more life than he has, I already have. I am d***** if I do and d***** if I dont.

I am so confused. Giving up seems like the best option for everyone. (my apologies if I messed up the reply post, not sure how to use this forum just yet.)


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

unsureone said:


> Are you happier divorced? I just want him happy at this point.



I am. But I was the initiator in the divorce. I filed.

Divorce may seem scary to you and him, and I'm sure he is conflicted on divorce. But when the smoke clears, he will see being free is the best thing for him. It was a load off my mind when I no longer had to worry or wonder about what my x-wife was doing or thinking.


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## unsureone (Feb 4, 2015)

vellocet said:


> I am. But I was the initiator in the divorce. I filed.
> 
> Divorce may seem scary to you and him, and I'm sure he is conflicted on divorce. But when the smoke clears, he will see being free is the best thing for him. It was a load off my mind when I no longer had to worry or wonder about what my x-wife was doing or thinking.


We keep getting to a point of where we are done, to a point of making an appointment with an attorney, or looking at other houses to split up. And he then does not want me to leave. He is so committed. I am a jerk. I was stuck on his anger and being defensive. I dont know if we can but.......

The ball is in his court. I want this, he knows I want him.


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