# Help- he doesn't think he was unfaithful



## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I wanted to ask aboutmy situation. I have been posting here about it- I don't expect anyone to plough through 12 pages so here's the synopsis...

OH (we're not married but planned to later this year) told me last month he kissed a girl he'd been working with. There was a couple of instances of contact outside work, and he did return there a few days after telling me to leave a present for her, but AFAIK that is all the contact there was between them. He no longer works at that site so doesn't see her.

I messaged her on FB, she replied saying "absolutely nothing" had happened between them by way of anything "going on."

I was devastated; we've not long had our youngest baby (6 months) and although we had problems, I trusted him implicitly (stupid.) He said he did have feelings for her, was flattered by the attention, of knowing she had the hots for him, it was a huge ego boost. I think he was in the fog for a short while and thought he was out of it (very short timescale) though not 100% sure.

We went backwards and forwards, it went from me not knowing if I wanted him here to him not knowing if he wanted to BE here. Atm we're together and committed to working through things.

My problems are surrounding what happened. I am obviously distrustful of him; I don't THINK he is in contact with her, but feel the need to check. He is finding this very hard; although he is transparent, he says he can't put up with much more of it, he wouldn't go behind my back, he's (I keep hearing this line) "NOT LIKE THAT." I think because she made the move, and he didn't "pursue" her, or carry things on, he doesn't feel like he's been unfaithful. He knows he's crossed the line, been inappropriate, but I don't feel he 100% grasps that in my mind he HAS been unfaithful and done things behind my back. His idea of unfaithful is a full-blown affair. He says if things had happened the other way around, he wouldn't feel like I'd cheated *shrugs*

How can I move forward with him and with this?


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Rubbish, it's easy for him to say he doesn't feel he was unfaithful.

That doesn't matter, because he was very much unfaithful, if your boundaries lie somewhere and he crosses them then he was unfaithful TO YOU.

If he doesn't care so much fine, and then you can feel free to kiss men, message them, spend intimate time talking to them, tell them your marriage woes and give and receive gifts from them. It's great that he will not think his boundaries have been crossed and be happy with that.

You both have a right to define what is accpetable to YOU, if he crosses that line or you do, then that means being unfaithful to you.

I would consider it unfaithful if my fiance had any secret communication with any other woman, full stop. I would also consider it unfaithful if he had intimate conversations with other women about our/ his life. Conversations he should be having with me.

I also have to ask, why doesn't he want to remain transparent? what does he have to hide? You can forgive him and move forward, but you may take years to trust him again, and he did the wrong thing so he just has to suck it up really.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

Syrum said:


> If he doesn't care so much fine, and then you can feel free to kiss men, message them, spend intimate time talking to them, tell them your marriage woes and give and receive gifts from them. It's great that he will not think his boundaries have been crossed and be happy with that.
> 
> You both have a right to define what is accpetable to YOU, if he crosses that line or you do, then that means being unfaithful to you.


This is a very good point. 

You should sit down and share your boundaries. Get a piece of paper and write down the things he already said were not cheating. Tell him you want to confirm how he feels; that kissing a man who makes the first move and accepting gifts from a man who you find attractive is not cheating. Then share with him your boundaries and write them down as well.

When he thinks about you kissing a man and receiving gifts, he'll likely change his mind. He's having a hard time putting himself in your place, but making it official might scare him straight.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

yes, hands down, he was unfaithful.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

He cheated, plain and simple.

If he doesn't see what he did is wrong, you have a much bigger problem.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Yes, kissing someone else is definitely cheating. My wife is the same way. Recently, it came out that she had kissed another man a few years ago. She swears that is all that happened. I said that is plenty. She doesn't consider it cheating.

She has also had a 9 month emotional affair that maybe has ended. I said something about "the affair" a few days ago. She had the nerve to say "affair" like it wasn't. Holy cow, hundreds of hours playing games with a man, dozens of hours on the phone, plans to go meet him, sexual chat, etc. and SHE doesn't think it was an affair.

I don't know how in the world people can justify "just a kiss" or "just an emotional affair". I'm sorry you are going through this. You are not alone. I believe he actually justifies it in his mind as not cheating. It probably helps with the guilt. That sure doesn't make it easier on you. It would be better if they accepted the wrong they have done and showed remorse. The insistance that "I didn't do anything wrong" doesn't help anything.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

i agree with the rest. it is something i would consider an affair and definitely inappropriate.
if he has nothing to hide, why the need for secrecy?
if your lives are to be together, i would consider the accounts mutual same as the house you have together. would he expect you to not have a key to the house?


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

unless u're dumber than he is:

u need to get yer plan B, C, etc, in order/dusted off/ready.

i'm all for trying to redeem yer marriage but seems to me he's
the one whos got to do most of the leg work, not u.

yet as i read yer verbage, methinks u'll be chasing "the doggie
with yer pooper-scooper" or worse yet, yer hand(s) to pick 
up the shaaaat. tsk tsk tsk.

i will...............ray:.............instead.


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## aquamarine (Apr 13, 2011)

HurtinginTN said:


> It would be better if they accepted the wrong they have done and showed remorse. The insistance that "I didn't do anything wrong" doesn't help anything.


Yep, I couldn't agree more. How do you even start to rebuild when they don't think they've done anything wrong?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

aquamarine said:


> How do you even start to rebuild when they don't think they've done anything wrong?


You don't.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

:iagree:


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

How can you trust someone who isn't aware that they are unfaithful? The OW went after my H. She flat out threw herself at him, but he did not respond in an appropriate way so that she got the message that he thought that she was out of line. He was flattered and kept lapping it up. He was unfaithful even before he touched her, because he knew that I would not like where the relationship was going. He kept it secret, I didn't know she even existed, and the result was a PA. The rule is that if you would not be comfortable with having your spouse observe your interactions with someone, you are unfaithful.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

oaksthorne said:


> How can you trust someone who isn't aware that they are unfaithful?


he is aware.
just my opinion


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

oaksthorne said:


> How can you trust someone who isn't aware that they are unfaithful?


He is totally aware. He just hasn't owned it at all. And that is why it's a huge problem.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

He's a mass of contradictions...

I will say... He is being transparent. He actually has no problem with being open with everything. The problems come when I ask him about something. I was prompted to post because yesterday, I noticed he had been checking his privacy settings on FB. This was following a conversation a few days ago where we were talking and I was explaining how I'd blocked the girl on his FB- he knew I'd "erased" her but thought I'd just deleted her. He was asking the difference between deleting a friend and blocking them. I could see he'd been into his privacy settings to edit friends but couldn't see what exactly he'd done.

He responded by saying he was curious, wanted to see what I'd done (he knew this anyway) but hadn't edited any friends (I checked and she wasn't back on his friends list.)

He is also being very sensitive, he is in tune with me, doesn't shirk from asking what's wrong, what can he do, reassuring. He says he feels an inordinate amount of guilt and so much "shame." He says he feels so bad because he can see how much this has hurt me.

Yet he says if it happened the exact same way but the other way round, he wouldn't be bothered. Because in his opinion, although he says he loved the attention, that she had the hots for him big time, and said he had feelings for her, because he says he would never have "done anything about it" (he means made a move on her himself as opposed to her jumping on him), he doesn't feel he's done anything wrong. In his head, being unfaithful is about the intention and the physical act IYSWIM. I think he *just* sees that accepting her phone number "in case anything changed" between me and him, then using it later and not telling me, and looking her up on FB to see what she'd been writing in her status about him, is at least, inappropriate.

He "just wants to forget about it." That basically means he wants to move on, and me forget all about being hurt by his actions and never mention it again. He thinks I should be over it now- it was three weeks ago. Another poster said on here that trust is something you don't always think about until it's gone- well, I always used to be so happy that I could trust him 100%, yet he seems to have no grasp of how that broken trust effects me- he keeps rolling out the line, "but I'm not LIKE THAT"- ie he wouldn't go behind my back and have an affair.

He says he won't take much more of this... I know the next time I have something to ask him about it he's going to blow up and I don't know how I should handle that?


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

tobio said:


> He "just wants to forget about it." That basically means he wants to move on, and me forget all about being hurt by his actions and never mention it again. He thinks I should be over it now- it was three weeks ago.


Classic, he's obviously read from the cheater's playbook.

He just wants you to accept his bad behavior and move on. No pain, no pain.



tobio said:


> Another poster said on here that trust is something you don't always think about until it's gone- well, I always used to be so happy that I could trust him 100%, yet he seems to have no grasp of how that broken trust effects me- he keeps rolling out the line, "but I'm not LIKE THAT"- ie he wouldn't go behind my back and have an affair.
> 
> He says he won't take much more of this... I know the next time I have something to ask him about it he's going to blow up and I don't know how I should handle that?


So then don't give him anymore of it. toss him to the curb!

It is more important to him to not even admit he screwed up and deal with the fallout in his relationship with you, than to be honest and deal with it.

He doesn't sound like a prize to me.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

He just wants you to sweep it under the rug so he can pretend it never happened.

Sorry. It doesn't work that way. Esp. not when he said he had "feelings" for her.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Tobio~

I think I'm going to reply to everything over on your original thread, but I wanted you to know that a) I'm working on it and b) the ways that your husband feels are actually pretty normal and although you may not grasp what he's saying, I can see that he really is trying to communicate with you both what is causing the problem for him and what it was about the OW that caught his attention. Sadly I think part of what's happening is that he is so focused on "what's hurting him" that he's not thinking about the hurt he's caused you...and when I say "he's not thinking..." what I mean is that he is well aware of it but that his Shame-0-Meter goes through the roof so he doesn't LET himself think much about it. At the same time, you are so hurt and trying to deal with it and heal that you do not hear HIM and what he is trying to communicate with you. 

So let me work on it and I'll reply in your other thread.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Yet he says if it happened the exact same way but the other way round, he wouldn't be bothered. Because in his opinion, although he says he loved the attention, that she had the hots for him big time, and said he had feelings for her, because he says he would never have "done anything about it" (he means made a move on her himself as opposed to her jumping on him), he doesn't feel he's done anything wrong. In his head, being unfaithful is about the intention and the physical act IYSWIM. I think he *just* sees that accepting her phone number "in case anything changed" between me and him, then using it later and not telling me, and looking her up on FB to see what she'd been writing in her status about him, is at least, inappropriate.

As I said, this is how my H's PA started. He was flattered; she was making all the moves, but he did not remove himself from the situation, that was unfaithful. He did not tell me about it, and probably never would have, that was unfaithful. He had no intention either of getting involved with her and said so to her. It just turned her on, and that flattered him all the more. He never told me about this woman and her interactions with him. That was unfaithful, if he had told me at that point he could have saved us so much pain, but he didn't, and that was unfaithful; both to me and to our relationship. I had a right to know; and he had an obligation to tell me. That is the foundation of being faithful; acting in a way that you know your spouse would want you to, and has every right to expect. It is the lies, and omissions that make it infidelity. I think he is full of it too about saying it wouldn't bother him if you acted the same as he has. If you can get him to go to a MC, I don't think his view would be entirely supported by a professional, and he might have to reexamine it.


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## sdesruiss (Mar 16, 2011)

"IF" you were to stay together, I would think MC certainly would be appropriate. He needs to understand EA's. My W had one and they seem more powerful than a PA. My W also struggles with being "validated" from men, which seem that he needs this validation as well. It is a strong feeling and should be addressed before moving forward. I wish you all the best.


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