# Oh Boy....It's complicated



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Hi all, I'm new to posting but I've been reading a ton on here the last 6 weeks while going through a separation with my husband of only 5 years.

We're 29 and have been together 10 years total. We have a two year old daughter and while she is amazing and we love her very much, I think our marriage has been dying a slow and painful death since we became parents- I'm a SAHM and admittedly am a bit resentful that H isn't a very involved parent, he is at work basically all day every day. Our sex life dwindled down to nothing, I couldn't even tell you when we last had a date night. Basically I think all the energy we should have put towards our marriage is now going to our kid (me) and work (him).

H initiated the separation discussion and while I agreed with most of it (no connection, no chemistry, we're both cranky with each other more often than happy) he did drop the "love you but not sure I'm IN love with you" bomb that seemed like a huge red flag at the time...and since reading here I definitely think it was. He mentioned a female confidant at work so naturally I deduced she was the OW and commenced doing some snooping. Aside from the fact that they talk a lot, nothing has jumped out as worrisome....but I remain skeptical.

Here is the issue; since my husband moved out we are crazy hot for each other. When we see each other we are all over each other. For a while I resisted while he constantly initiated, but then I thought-hey, I deserve a little fun too. And it isn't just sex, he is attentive and affectionate and we are like, flirting with each other like the old days. 

The other night after he spent the day with our daughter we hooked up and had the best time....we stayed up until 4am talking. He says he is confused and feels like since we separated he is having fun again, like things just got old and stale. I think that's quite immature but what can I say. He mentioned the suspected OW and said she is quitting the job they both work at and he is sad because she is his best friend at work and he'll miss her....I felt like, if she was really an OW would he talk that openly about her? Not sure. I flat out asked if he was seeing/having sex with anyone else and he said no and was very adamant-but I mean, he would hardly admit it while trying to get in my pants.

I think I will put a stop to the sex because I know it can't end well. It felt like we were mutually benefitting but I'd be lying if I said a part of me didn't want H back, despite our problems. Does it sound like he may still be into me? I see a lot that confusion=affair, but does it ever just straight up mean confusion?


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

This sounds just like my marriage 2 years ago.

I don't know what to tell you other than STOP THE SEX and communicate.

He throws crumbs, right? Enough to make you feel good and special but no real WORK is being done on the marriage....right?

My husband and I are now divorcing after he moved back home for 2 years. Nothing was really resolved, and he busted out with the same speech again with not being happy, not loving me, etc.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Yes, that is kind of what is happening. It feels like he is opening up to me a little bit more each time we're together but there's still a lot of issues that we haven't really tackled. I don't know if this is slow baby steps or what. 

I recently packaged up some of his things-CDs, books, movies etc and put them in storage. He was incredibly unhappy with me and said it hurt his feelings because this was only meant to be temporary. But when pushed he doesn't really have a guideline for how long temporary is.

The thing is, I am lonely. And he knows me and I am comfortable with him so the sex feels easy....I thought I could handle it, and I was, but now I find myself questioning what is really going on.

May I ask what happened with your husband? Was he having an affair or just bored or what? Because that is basically the same as what I was told and I immediately thought OW (and so did everyone else) but I'm not sure if there is one, or he is just hoping for one....


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

No affair...he has personal issues from his past.


----------



## Thoreau (Nov 12, 2012)

Pffft.....it isn't complicated at all. This story has been told gazillions of times. Listen to TG.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Yeah I'm sure it's the same thing a lot of guys say and do. I just was not expecting him to want to be with me so much. I don't know anyone my age who has separated. The stories I've heard are from friends of my mother's whose husbands left for suspected affairs and turned into *******s or moved in with the OW....I guess that was what I was expecting. Instead he's turned into the old H that I used to know and we are really enjoying our time togeteher, I think. I thought if there was an OW he'd be in the fog and have no interest in me but that doesn't seem to be the case yet.

Sorry to go on, just kind of confused in my own thoughts  hard to know what to do or expect. I want to try the 180 to help myself get over this,but since I'd also like to reconcile it seems a bit risky to cut down communication, since that was one of our issues that led to this....


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you want to recover your marriage get him into MC with you and get a date set for when he moves back in.

What happened to your marriage is pretty typical for a marriage in which a couple does not but their relationship and each other first.

It's completely possible to rebuild the passion in your relationship. Take a look at the material linked to for building a passionate marriage in my signature block below.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Sounds like you two are truly attracted to each other.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Sounds like you two are truly attracted to each other.


Conrad, I do think so but I guess I can't deny that he may just be using me for sex....it hasn't really changed anything between us in the day to day, but H is a fairly quiet person and has never been one to text or phone all day long.


----------



## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

singlemama said:


> I'm a SAHM and admittedly am a bit resentful that H isn't a very involved parent, he is at work basically all day every day.


Interesting.

So you resent that he works his butt off to put a roof over your head.

You probably will enjoy being a single mom and having to work full time from now on. Good luck.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> If you want to recover your marriage get him into MC with you and get a date set for when he moves back in.
> 
> What happened to your marriage is pretty typical for a marriage in which a couple does not but their relationship and each other first.
> 
> It's completely possible to rebuild the passion in your relationship. Take a look at the material linked to for building a passionate marriage in my signature block below.


Is it still possible to do even if it seems like he's checked out of the marriage? He just keeps saying confused...or that his head is spinning trying to "make sense of it all." He did seem a bit stand offish with me the other day, I think because he perceived that I was getting a bit pushy or clingy.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So what are you doing to actually resolve you issues?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

singlemama said:


> Conrad, I do think so but I guess I can't deny that he may just be using me for sex....it hasn't really changed anything between us in the day to day, but H is a fairly quiet person and has never been one to text or phone all day long.


Men interpret sex as being loved by their woman.

I realize it's somewhat different for women.

I would invite you to think about Keko's post.

Like me, he doesn't mince words.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

keko said:


> Interesting.
> 
> So you resent that he works his butt off to put a roof over your head.
> 
> You probably will enjoy being a single mom and having to work full time from now on. Good luck.


What I have been resentful of is that work always comes first, his free time comes second, and me and our daughter come third. He works very very hard and I appreciate what he does for our family, but I have been a single parent for the last two years and it's hard to have a partner in theory but not in practice. He is gone 15 hours a day and it is hard on me. He is the boss at his job and he doesn't have to be away as much as he is, he chooses to be. And that is what I am resentful of.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

singlemama said:


> What I have been resentful of is that work always comes first, his free time comes second, and me and our daughter come third. He works very very hard and I appreciate what he does for our family, but I have been a single parent for the last two years and it's hard to have a partner in theory but not in practice. He is gone 15 hours a day and it is hard on me. He is the boss at his job and he doesn't have to be away as much as he is, he chooses to be. And that is what I am resentful of.


You two would likely benefit from reading the book on the 5 Love Languages.

Likely, both of you have been expressing love for your partner in your way - but the other has missed it.

If you get on the same page, and you still have the attraction thing going, it's completely doable.

Learn his love language and it won't be "complicated"


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Men interpret sex as being loved by their woman.
> 
> I realize it's somewhat different for women.
> 
> ...



I agree with Keko's post except I'm only recently a SAHM and when I had a full-time job I was still doing all the parenting...I think that's why I got resentful. Its never felt equal or close to equal. I cook, clean, parent and he just brings home the paycheck. Which is a large contribution to our family and i have told him how grateful i am, but should that be ALL a husband/father is required to do???

I have told him that I want to work things out, and I think the sex might be a step in the right direction. But I know that some men also don't need to equate sex with love, so I worry that possibly he is just using me for a sexual release because it's easy, not because he has some underlying feelings.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

singlemama said:


> I agree with Keko's post except I'm only recently a SAHM and when I had a full-time job I was still doing all the parenting...I think that's why I got resentful. Its never felt equal or close to equal. I cook, clean, parent and he just brings home the paycheck. Which is a large contribution to our family and i have told him how grateful i am, but should that be ALL a husband/father is required to do???
> 
> I have told him that I want to work things out, and I think the sex might be a step in the right direction. But I know that some men also don't need to equate sex with love, so I worry that possibly he is just using me for a sexual release because it's easy, not because he has some underlying feelings.


If you're not ok playing "happy family" with him moved out, tell him.

Don't guess.

I've been where he is. I thought the extraordinary effort would win me love.

Not how it works.

What was his childhood like?

How about yours?


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Conrad said:


> You two would likely benefit from reading the book on the 5 Love Languages.
> 
> Likely, both of you have been expressing love for your partner in your way - but the other has missed it.
> 
> ...



Is it ever too late for that? I would be game to try but it's hard to read his cues...at one point he said that working on the marriage might be fruitless but then he seemed to change his mind. He is definitely confused!!

He said he's having fun now being separated....which sounds a bit ominous to me. He said he felt a bit claustrophobic before, probably because we were just spinning our wheels in a passionless marriage. Can that be resolved do you think?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

singlemama said:


> Is it ever too late for that? I would be game to try but it's hard to read his cues...at one point he said that working on the marriage might be fruitless but then he seemed to change his mind. He is definitely confused!!
> 
> He said he's having fun now being separated....which sounds a bit ominous to me. He said he felt a bit claustrophobic before, probably because we were just spinning our wheels in a passionless marriage. Can that be resolved do you think?


Stop looking for "his cues"

Start working on you.

To transcend this, you need to understand it first.

You have his child. Be as attractive to him as possible.

Are you in therapy?


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Conrad said:


> If you're not ok playing "happy family" with him moved out, tell him.
> 
> Don't guess.
> 
> ...



He comes from a family of multiple divorces and remarriages. He has stepsiblings, halfsiblings.....he has a very loving family but I would not describe them as close.
My parents have been married 35 years and my siblings and I are all extremely close. I speak to my mother every day, H could go weeks without speaking to his.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

singlemama said:


> He comes from a family of multiple divorces and remarriages. He has stepsiblings, halfsiblings.....he has a very loving family but I would not describe them as close.
> My parents have been married 35 years and my siblings and I are all extremely close. I speak to my mother every day, H could go weeks without speaking to his.


Any sort of abuse on either side?

Any adoptions?

Abandonment? Neglect?


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yes. Stop worrying about what he's doing and work on you.

If he's confused, then tell him to take a break and think and come back to talk when he's more "clear".

But you'll do what you do...I know cause I did it too. 

I wish I hadn't let him move back 2 years ago...but then again, I wouldn't have learned all that I've learned so...no regrets.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

I am doing IC but he is not. He said he would go but I haven't pushed him yet as he really doesn't have a ton of free time right now...and when I mentioned making him an appointment, my counselor said my control issues were showing and we'd have to discuss that at a next appointment! Haha


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Any sort of abuse on either side?
> 
> Any adoptions?
> 
> Abandonment? Neglect?


No abuse or adoptions.
H's mom left when he was a baby. She divorced his dad and took off. He did see her, but it wasn't an every other weekend deal, I think more like once a month. When he was 9 he moved back to her full-time because he didn't like his father's wife. When we talk about that he does express sadness and confusion at his mom leaving like that...even though he obviously doesn't remember it.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

If you have to push it, he doesn't want to do it.

I know this from experience.

He's to busy to make his MARRIAGE a priority? Nice. Mine was too. I thought "Oh he's just busy.." nope. It wasn't what he wanted to do...

Let him be a man. LET GO and see what happens. Stop trying to hold on to everything and making every thing work. You'll see where you truly stand.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

singlemama said:


> No abuse or adoptions.
> H's mom left when he was a baby. She divorced his dad and took off. He did see her, but it wasn't an every other weekend deal, I think more like once a month. When he was 9 he moved back to her full-time because he didn't like his father's wife. When we talk about that he does express sadness and confusion at his mom leaving like that...even though he obviously doesn't remember it.


And you wonder why he's confused about what a family is like?

The lesson he learned was if something starts going south, you run.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

singlemama said:


> Is it still possible to do even if it seems like he's checked out of the marriage? He just keeps saying confused...or that his head is spinning trying to "make sense of it all." He did seem a bit stand offish with me the other day, I think because he perceived that I was getting a bit pushy or clingy.


Yes it's possible to repair the marriage even now.

Right now he has a single life style and he has you too. This is a very good setup for him. You have no idea of what he's doing when you are not around. 

You have spend a few weeks showing him how wonderful you are and what your relationship can be like again. Obviously it can be good again if you two put each other first and meet each other's needs. 

So now that he's seen all that good stuff, it's time to let him know that if he does not move back in with you are work on your marriage, then he's going to lose you forever. 

Let him know that you want MC and for the two of you to move back together. Then start treating him according to the 180 until he decides to recover your marriage.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Conrad said:


> And you wonder why he's confused about what a family is like?
> 
> The lesson he learned was if something starts going south, you run.


Agreed, I knew this was a factor. My confusion stems more from the fact that this wasn't a clean break. his mom left his dad, moved hours away and got remarried. H is still continuing to come around and seems like he still wants me....and I want to use that to my advantage to make things work between us but don't know how.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Yes it's possible to repair the marriage even now.
> 
> Right now he has a single life style and he has you too. This is a very good setup for him. You have no idea of what he's doing when you are not around.
> 
> ...


Your gut is telling you that it's not ok for him to cake eat.

Trust me, it's a very good sign that you've had children together and you still want to jump him. Many men here would give their eye teeth for their woman to desire them in that way.

BUT, he needs to realize that sort of activity comes in the context of a committed relationship where he takes responsibility as the father of his children.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Yes it's possible to repair the marriage even now.
> 
> Right now he has a single life style and he has you too. This is a very good setup for him. You have no idea of what he's doing when you are not around.
> 
> ...


I have been reluctant to start 180 because a lot of our issues stemmed from not being together much, I was afraid it might push him away. I was really trying to work at rekindling what we once had....I just can't tell if its working or not!


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Also, he's got the best of both worlds right now. Family life, without real comittment because he gets to leave after he's done with whatever he's doing.

Don't let him move home until he deals with his crap. I made that mistake and things blew up again...but this time, I'm done. Divorcing. Can't handle the revolving door attitude and the lies (pretending to be in this marriage when he really wasn't).


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Your gut is telling you that it's not ok for him to cake eat.
> 
> Trust me, it's a very good sign that you've had children together and you still want to jump him. Many men here would give their eye teeth for their woman to desire them in that way.
> 
> BUT, he needs to realize that sort of activity comes in the context of a committed relationship where he takes responsibility as the father of his children.


Well also because lack of sex was a severe issue for us. I actually have really wanted to do it the last few times, but it also kind for shows him that I do still have desires and it can work out OK if we make an effort.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

that_girl said:


> Also, he's got the best of both worlds right now. Family life, without real comittment because he gets to leave after he's done with whatever he's doing.
> 
> Don't let him move home until he deals with his crap. I made that mistake and things blew up again...but this time, I'm done. Divorcing. Can't handle the revolving door attitude and the lies (pretending to be in this marriage when he really wasn't).


This is what I was worried about. The one night when it was so hot and amazing and the we lay together for hours just chatting afterwards felt lie a real connection. The time after that felt a bit more business deal.'i can't tell where we stand, and if I try and get answers I'm just told "confused".


----------



## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Hey There SingleMama...

My ex-husband pulled away from me and initiated a separation shortly after my son was born. We were married for 8 years, and together for a total of 18 years. 

He sort of did the same thing. He had someone at work that he confided in. ...he got really close to her, and he would talk about her all the time to me. So, I had the same opinion as you did....he wouldn't be having an affair with someone who he was openly talking about to me? ...right? 

Well, I was wrong.  It was weird...looking back on things. When he and his mistress first starting their emotional affair, he would come home from work and explain to me how he wanted us to kiss more and be more intimate with each other. I was encouraged by this, because I thought that I could "keep" him if I showed him more affection and "sexed it up". 

I think ...looking back on things...that he was getting most all of his needs fullfilled from this other woman (emotional, companionship, etc) except physical needs. (At the time, something must have been holding him back from actually having sex with the other woman) So, he was coming home to me and looking for me to fill in the one need he wasn't getting from his affair partner.

Eventually, his affair became physical, and at that point he left me entirely.

I am not saying that your husband is having an affair...but, I will say that just because he is openly talking about the other woman, that doesn't mean that he is not having an affair with him.

My ex-husband staunchly denied having physical contact with his mistress too. I mean STAUNCHLY...he was adamant . But, I later found evidence to the contrary. Two years out of this whole ordeal, he finally admitted that he lied to me. But, at the time, he would never admit to it even when confronted with evidence. 

Don't be mislead by the sex. Just because you are having good sex doesn't mean that he is feeling a real connection to you. 


I agree with the others. I would stop having sex with him, and just focus on yourself. I know it is really hard to do...because you are lonely. ...and want to hold onto whatever you can get from him. If he wants to be separated, then these are the consequences. His stuff goes into storage, and you guys don't have sex. You lead separate lives. 

Truthfully, though. Reading your story, it seems like these issues that you guys are having could possibly be fixed with good marriage counseling. I think I would give it a shot...at the very least. Marriage counseling can either help you improve your marriage...or figure out how to end it amicably. I think I waited a little too late to seek marriage counseling. I waited until the point where he had already left me in his mind for the other woman.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Conrad said:


> If you're not ok playing "happy family" with him moved out, tell him.
> 
> Don't guess.
> 
> ...



Sorry Conrad I meant to ask....when you said extraordinary effort did you mean work related? Or within the marriage?


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You're going to have to be honest with him.

You DO desire him and have realized that part of your relationship suffered due to resentment.

Both of you likely need individual counseling - and some work on programs like Love Languages and His Needs Her Needs to understand the other persons's point of view.

He also needs IC to face his childhood.

This isn't the time for pride.

He will encounter these issues from his childhood no matter who he's involved with.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

jpr said:


> Hey There SingleMama...
> 
> My ex-husband pulled away from me and initiated a separation shortly after my son was born. We were married for 8 years, and together for a total of 18 years.
> 
> ...


I think it was just the fact that he referred to her as his best friend. I wasn't sure if he would do that and deliberately cast suspicion in my mind....but I have definitely considered what you are saying. 

How do you know if your husband has checked out? He is still coming around, obviously, but he isn't spending all day texting me or phoning me. I can't say he ever really did that though.

I am not sure if the OW is actually interested in him like that or not. I don't know why, but my suspicions from the beginning were that this may be a bit more one-sided on H's part. I would say he probably has a crush on her for sure, and she sees way more of him than I do, so their closeness is definitely taking care of emotional needs for him....


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

singlemama said:


> Sorry Conrad I meant to ask....when you said extraordinary effort did you mean work related? Or within the marriage?


For a man, 15 hour work days are extraordinary effort.

To exist on a single income is the way a codependent man thinks he REALLY shows a woman he loves her.

He's treating her the way he wishes to be treated.

Take away the yoke of the 40hr week and working for the "man", taking crap and bearing that burden, so you can be free to love his children.

Yes, this is how we think.

Especially if our mothers worked or were otherwise absent - like his.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

singlemama said:


> I think it was just the fact that he referred to her as his best friend. I wasn't sure if he would do that and deliberately cast suspicion in my mind....but I have definitely considered what you are saying.
> 
> How do you know if your husband has checked out? He is still coming around, obviously, but he isn't spending all day texting me or phoning me. I can't say he ever really did that though.
> 
> I am not sure if the OW is actually interested in him like that or not. I don't know why, but my suspicions from the beginning were that this may be a bit more one-sided on H's part. I would say he probably has a crush on her for sure, and she sees way more of him than I do, so their closeness is definitely taking care of emotional needs for him....


You said he's the boss?

So, posOW sees him as a source of security and a good provider.

Don't trust her as far as you can throw her.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

She's his best friend??

Oh yea, no good. Nooo good.


----------



## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

My ex-husband started to check out a couple of month before my son was born. He, too, called this girl his "Best Friend". 

...which hurt. As his wife, I thought I should be his best friend. We were best friends for 18 years until she entered his life. 

After opening up himself to the possibility that he could get this much younger girl, he began to detach. He would text her all the time, and call her and talk to her on his entire commute home. He also told me about a month after my son was born that he was not in love with me anymore.

I had a chance in the beginning to put my foot down and end his relationship with this girl. ...but, I didn't. Because he convinced me that she was his best friend and that he needed her in his life. 

Just be aware, SingleMama. For some people, when the notion that they can "land" another partner and be happy with them enters their mind, then this opens them up to all sort of possibilities that you never thought were possible. 

After he told me that he wasn't in love with me anymore, there were a few weeks when I *thought* that I was winning him back....giving him everything he wanted. More emotion. More intimate conversations. More attention. He was texting me during the day and giving me more attention too. ...but, it didn't last long.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Conrad said:


> You said he's the boss?
> 
> So, posOW sees him as a source of security and a good provider.
> 
> Don't trust her as far as you can throw her.



She's leaving next week and they won't be working together anymore. I'm nor even sure if she will still be living in our city.
I can't really explain it....but she's worked with him for a few years and actually sent us a card when our daughter was born. She comes from a very close and religious family, she's younger than we are....it is still entirely possible but I have just always had a gut feeling that perhaps she thinks they are just friends and he is thinking/hoping for more.
I can't explain it well and I know how naive it sounds. I would not be at all surprised to find out that I'm wrong.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

singlemama said:


> She's leaving next week and they won't be working together anymore. I'm nor even sure if she will still be living in our city.
> I can't really explain it....but she's worked with him for a few years and actually sent us a card when our daughter was born. She comes from a very close and religious family, she's younger than we are....it is still entirely possible but I have just always had a gut feeling that perhaps she thinks they are just friends and he is thinking/hoping for more.
> I can't explain it well and I know how naive it sounds. I would not be at all surprised to find out that I'm wrong.


I would recommend you find out.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

And she wants your husband. 

Have no doubt. 

And he's into her.


----------



## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

My ex-husband's tart dog-sat for me while I was giving birth. 

...she went to my son's baptism.

She sent gifts.

...I later found out that she had sent my then-husband a mixed cd of love songs two days before she attended my son's baptism. 

She moved across country 18 months ago. ....but, my ex-husband and her are STILL in a relationship together.

That was one of the reasons I was not too concerned about their relationship....I knew that she would be moving across country eventually.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Ooooh yea. OP, I suggest you get real answers.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

jpr said:


> My ex-husband started to check out a couple of month before my son was born. He, too, called this girl his "Best Friend".
> 
> ...which hurt. As his wife, I thought I should be his best friend. We were best friends for 18 years until she entered his life.
> 
> ...


OK thanks, I am considering all of this. This sounds like it could fit with my situation too. The only reason I am not saying anything is because after next week they won't be working together anymore. H works all the time, so I think part of it was that he saw her all day, every day. This may snap him out of an EA fog.

Did you say your husband left you for the OW? 
I am curious as to why my H didn't, if he possibly likes this girl so much. And then he got upset when I sent his things to storage.

I hate myself for saying this, but if he is uncertain about whom to choose is there a way to tip the scales in my favour? It seems like all our problems are fixable so I would like to try....I think.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Conrad said:


> I would recommend you find out.


There is no way to know, I asked several times if he was doing anything inappropriate and he said no. I've snooped and found a few conversations and they ate perfectly innocent.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

singlemama said:


> There is no way to know, I asked several times if he was doing anything inappropriate and he said no. I've snooped and found a few conversations and they ate perfectly innocent.


There are ways to find out.

Do you have access to his phone bill? Cell, text, IM, email?

Another method is to put a voice-activated recorder under the seat of his car - retrieve it in a few days.

You'll have your answer.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

that_girl said:


> And she wants your husband.
> 
> Have no doubt.
> 
> And he's into her.


Oh man I hate that I am saying this because I know how ridiculous I sound....but I am just still skeptical of her intent/feelings. I have sort of thought that's why our separation is so open-ended....because he thinks it's going to take some work with her. For some reason she must not be a sure thing.
I know how I sound. I want people to be brutally honest so I have lots of perspectives.


----------



## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

I hated myself for having that mindset too...I was constantly wracking my brain trying to find ways that I could "win" my husband back. All I would think about was ways that I could change myself to make myself "better" than this other woman.

They started an emotional affaid in December 2010. She moved away in early August 2011. He moved out in late September 2011. ...he said he was confused, and that he was going to eliminate all distractions in his life (including her) and figure out what he wanted. According to phone records, that lasted 2 weeks, because he was back to calling her and texting her all the time.

In Feb. 2012, I found pictures of them together on New Years Eve. When confronted with the pictures, he told me that he was done. 

It was then that I really started my detachment process. We have been officially divorced for about 4 months now.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Conrad said:


> There are ways to find out.
> 
> Do you have access to his phone bill? Cell, text, IM, email?
> 
> ...


Not his phone bill or texts now that he has moved out. IM and email show nothing,

He doesn't drive.


----------



## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

My ex-husband set up a google voice account so that he could talk to his tart undetected.


----------



## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

...and he got a new email address just for her.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

jpr said:


> I hated myself for having that mindset too...I was constantly wracking my brain trying to find ways that I could "win" my husband back. All I would think about was ways that I could change myself to make myself "better" than this other woman.
> 
> They started an emotional affaid in December 2010. She moved away in early August 2011. He moved out in late September 2011. ...he said he was confused, and that he was going to eliminate all distractions in his life (including her) and figure out what he wanted. According to phone records, that lasted 2 weeks, because he was back to calling her and texting her all the time.
> 
> ...



OK this is what I want, I will explain my thoughts and you tell me why I am probably wrong  seriously, I need this.

He has never admitted to anything, nothing. He is kind of a hard ass at work and he said because they've known each other so long she knew to ignore his ahole behaviour and get him to chill out....he said work will be really weird without her and he actually sounded quite sad and wistful, so he must feel like the relationship will change in some capacity. He doesn't know I suspect her as an OW. He truly doesn't speak of her much. This all came up in a bigger discussion of how much work was getting him down lately.
;


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

As a woman, would you be "best friends" with someone else's husband?? No. Probably not.

Don't trust her.

Don't trust him.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

jpr said:


> ...and he got a new email address just for her.


This is a possibility. A few times before he left he fell asleep on the couch with his laptop on so I snooped...and nothing. He is not great at covering his tracks, doesn't delete history or anything. I've snooped in his Facebook and the email he uses and he comments or likes some of her pictures or updates but it's nothing major.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

that_girl said:


> As a woman, would you be "best friends" with someone else's husband?? No. Probably not.
> 
> Don't trust her.
> 
> Don't trust him.



I don't think I would....and that is why I am keeping an eye out. But they work in a restaurant and those places are always kind of flirty and weird like that. It IS possible for it to be innocent. Possible. But not definite.


----------



## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

My ex-husband's tart was his graduate student. He is a psychology professor. He has always been very professional at work. He used to sort of make fun of this girl because she was constantly emailing him and seeking his approval about papers and other assignments. 

He said he was having emotional problems because of the life-shifts that were occuring due to the birth of our son. He was becoming a dad, and he was having a hard time wrapping his brain around this. He tart was a counselor, prior entering graduate school with him. So, he said that his Tart was helping him work through this therapy manual order to get his emotions in check.

I got all wrapped up in this ridiculousness.

It was all so ridiculous, and I foolishly made excuses for him and tried to compete with this girl. It was crazy and dumb on my part. I was desperately trying to hold onto him. ...and fooling myself into believing that there was no way that my husband (my best friend) could ever lie to me...could ever betray me.

This is ridiculous. He shouldn't be "best friends" with this woman. That is not right. He shouldn't need her to calm him down. 

Regardless of whether he is having an affair or not, this just sounds fishy...and not right to me.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Maybe. But talking after work/texts/etc and then you get the "I don't know if I'm in love with you" speech?

Why are YOU not his best friend??

Could very well not be cheating, but something stirred inside of him.


----------



## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

I read this book called "Boundaries for Marriage". It was a good book.

One of the things the book talked about is this notion of 'windows' and 'walls'. In a healthy marriage, you should have a window between you and your spouse..where you let the other person into your life, confide in them, be vulnerable with them, etc. ...and you place walls between you and certain other people and influence to keep them out.

Your husband should have a wall up between this woman and him....but, it seems like he is opening a window with her, and that can be very dangerous.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

jpr said:


> My ex-husband's tart was his graduate student. He is a psychology professor. He has always been very professional at work. He used to sort of make fun of this girl because she was constantly emailing him and seeking his approval about papers and other assignments.
> 
> He said he was having emotional problems because of the life-shifts that were occuring due to the birth of our son. He was becoming a dad, and he was having a hard time wrapping his brain around this. He tart was a counselor, prior entering graduate school with him. So, he said that his Tart was helping him work through this therapy manual order to get his emotions in check.
> 
> ...


I don't think I always did my best to make him feel loved and appreciated at home. Now, granted, he didn't make me feel loved and appreciated either but it's hard to feel like you drove your husband to cheat.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

that_girl said:


> Maybe. But talking after work/texts/etc and then you get the "I don't know if I'm in love with you" speech?
> 
> Why are YOU not his best friend??
> 
> Could very well not be cheating, but something stirred inside of him.


He said work best friend....but still, I agree. He does call me his best friend but I wouldn't say we act like each others best friends all the time. He confides in me, but usually just after a particularly pleasant day (ie the other night after sex).

But I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement. Especially since he said he hasn't had "fun" in a long while. Coupled with this ambiguous separation, him getting upset about me storing his things, us having sex....I think he is hoping something will happen with her, but I don't think much has happened yet. Like this separation is an experiment to see if he can get anyone else.


----------



## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

I think that it is a good thing to own up to our own failings--on both sides.

But, if you husband wants to stay married to you, then he need to be willing to work with you as you learn to love him in a way he can feel, and he needs to be willing to learn to love you in a way you can feel. That takes time and effort and work.

...and he needs to close the window that he has open for this woman.


----------



## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

singlemama said:


> He said work best friend....but still, I agree. He does call me his best friend but I wouldn't say we act like each others best friends all the time. He confides in me, but usually just after a particularly pleasant day (ie the other night after sex).
> 
> But I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement. Especially since he said he hasn't had "fun" in a long while. Coupled with this ambiguous separation, him getting upset about me storing his things, us having sex....I think he is hoping something will happen with her, but I don't think much has happened yet. *Like this separation is an experiment to see if he can get anyone else*.


Yes. My ex-husband told me that he knew that the relationship with his Tart would not last....however, it gave him the confidence that he needed to know that he could find other partners. 

I even saw an email he had written to a buddy of his stating that very same thing. From this, he now knows that he is attractive and can be wanted by the opposite sex.



ridiculous.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

jpr said:


> Yes. My ex-husband told me that he knew that the relationship with his Tart would not last....however, it gave him the confidence that he needed to know that he could find other partners.
> 
> I even saw an email he had written to a buddy of his stating that very same thing. From this, he now knows that he is attractive and can be wanted by the opposite sex.
> 
> ...



I am curious as to how you and your husband had such an open discussion about his OW....did you just confront him with evidence or what? I told my husband that I am really not OK with having sex with him if he was having sex with someone else and he vehemently denied it. And knew to basically the exact hour when we had previously had sex two weeks prior, so obviously he's not getting it all day every day....for whatever that is worth.

He also mentioned how much he likes our condo, how comfy our bed is compared to the one he is using at his mom's....and we had a lengthy discussion of how he hopes my family don't hate him otherwise R could be awkward.

Don't get it,


----------



## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

Welll...I had suspicions. She dog-sat for us in our home when I was in the hospital giving birth to my son. My ex went home that night to get some sleep, but I found out that they spent that evening watching my favorite movie together.

So, after that, I had my doubts that they were "just friends".

He was so convincing, though.  I would snoop and find inappropriate text messages, but he would have an excuse for it. I would confront him a lot with evidence. I would find a mixed CD or something, and ask him about it. He would roll his eyes and say it was nothing...and that I was crazy for thinking that. ...that his Tart was a good person and had "the utmost respect for our marriage". He told me that several times.  

He has an EA shortly before we got married. We almost didn't get married because of it. So, when he started becoming "best friends" with this girl, he was pretty open about it...he would spend a lot of time with her on campus and stuff, and i think he was afraid that one of his colleagues would mention it to me in passing.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

jpr said:


> Welll...I had suspicions. She dog-sat for us in our home when I was in the hospital giving birth to my son. My ex went home that night to get some sleep, but I found out that they spent that evening watching my favorite movie together.
> 
> So, after that, I had my doubts that they were "just friends".
> 
> ...


I have zero evidence a of yet.
What made him eventually decide to go be with her? Everyone keeps telling me that men "always" come back or try to....but I've seen on here that they don't.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

singlemama said:


> I have zero evidence a of yet.
> What made him eventually decide to go be with her? Everyone keeps telling me that men "always" come back or try to....but I've seen on here that they don't.


You simply must quit focusing on him.

Be the best you can be.

Take stock of your issues.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Conrad said:


> You simply must quit focusing on him.
> 
> Be the best you can be.
> 
> Take stock of your issues.



I'm working on it. I've been doing IC for several weeks. I was reading more into the 180 and it sounds like it would be pretty good for me....but it's kind of hard to get that "I hope he comes back" feeling out of the back of my mind!! I hope the 180 can help with that


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

What you need to learn to do is block those thoughts. Otherwise, they will drive you crazy.

What I do when I find unwanted thoughts popping up in my brain is envision a big red "Stop" sign and I tell myself STOP!!! And then I think of something else. 

You may have to do that over and over and over but it *will *work.

Because the only behavior you can change is your own. It's not easy but it can be done.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Its funny because when we first separated I felt very confident that this was a good thing and I was so at peace. I don't know what changed, we were having sex then too....maybe it was the other night of long discussion, I got a bit too emotionally connected?

I will start the 180 tomorrow. Any advice on how it works with a kid(s)? Our baby girl is so young that we thought sometimes it would be nice for us to hang out all as a family...is that a no no for the 180? 
How long before I can expect results? Not with him, with me gaining some of my confidence back. I liked how settled I felt in the beginning, I want that back.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

singlemama said:


> He is gone 15 hours a day and it is hard on me. He is the boss at his job and he doesn't have to be away as much as he is, he chooses to be. And that is what I am resentful of.


Hi Single, try not to resent this too much. My wife resented me for this too for a long time. People sometimes think the boss can come and go as he pleases, but any boss that's doing his job is the first one in and the last one to leave. You have to set an example to your employees. You can't expect them to put in the necessary time and effort if you're leaving early everyday. It is extremely stressful especially knowing your spouse resents it. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> Hi Single, try not to resent this too much. My wife resented me for this too for a long time. People sometimes think the boss can come and go as he pleases, but any boss that's doing his job is the first one in and the last one to leave. You have to set an example to your employees. You can't expect them to put in the necessary time and effort if you're leaving early everyday. It is extremely stressful especially knowing your spouse resents it. Just my 2 cents.



Thanks, that is true. I think that definitely was a factor for him. We never fought about it really, but I'm sure it was hard having me text all night "when are you coming home?" But I've been supportive of every job he's had since we've been together, it's just been so hard on me to be alone so much.
The other problem we had is that because of how much he works when he has downtime he expects downtime. He wants to sleep til noon, relax and watch TV....you'd think I'd asked him to commit murder if I suggest we go out and do something as a family. He always just wants to 'relax'. It started to hurt my feelings.


----------



## baby blue (Mar 11, 2013)

Been there, gone thru some of that 
How I see it, from my personal life experiences- You did what many of us do, got lost as a couple.. Didn't communicate...
I believe there are men out there that would just have sex and mean nothing by it.. But, I do know when I look into my man's eye's I can tell the difference. (after 10 yrs I'm sure you know if it was just sex or actual itimate relations being shared).. I personally see no problem in that, even had counselor tell us it would be beneficial if we were intimate with each other in ALL way's. (holding hands, cuddling, and more). It would help us remember we were a couple who loved as a couple, not just parents, not just 2 people in same house. Although, we had to also communicate and make sure it was okay with other not feeling like a "have to or lose thing". Start dating again, take it slow. I just asked mine to save us he needed to find himself so we found him a hotel to stay at for at least a month. (although, I to have advice needed thread about that) 
But, don't jump to 'oh this will save us'.. Ask him straight up- Would you like to go on a date? If you want the closeness, but don't really want the emotionally stuff of sex, ask and decide if touching & cuddling only would be okay.. (you'll also tell from that what all he's after- pleasure only, or intimacy)..


----------



## singlemama (Mar 9, 2013)

baby blue said:


> Been there, gone thru some of that
> How I see it, from my personal life experiences- You did what many of us do, got lost as a couple.. Didn't communicate...
> I believe there are men out there that would just have sex and mean nothing by it.. But, I do know when I look into my man's eye's I can tell the difference. (after 10 yrs I'm sure you know if it was just sex or actual itimate relations being shared).. I personally see no problem in that, even had counselor tell us it would be beneficial if we were intimate with each other in ALL way's. (holding hands, cuddling, and more). It would help us remember we were a couple who loved as a couple, not just parents, not just 2 people in same house. Although, we had to also communicate and make sure it was okay with other not feeling like a "have to or lose thing". Start dating again, take it slow. I just asked mine to save us he needed to find himself so we found him a hotel to stay at for at least a month. (although, I to have advice needed thread about that)
> But, don't jump to 'oh this will save us'.. Ask him straight up- Would you like to go on a date? If you want the closeness, but don't really want the emotionally stuff of sex, ask and decide if touching & cuddling only would be okay.. (you'll also tell from that what all he's after- pleasure only, or intimacy)..


Hi there, thank you, I just read this post now.
Things are a bit weird. I am finding it very hard to know where I stand.
I believe and have always believed in my heart that my husband left a bit as an experiment just to see what he could get better than me. However, he continues to want to have sex with me, will stay and visit with me at my home long after our daughter as gone to sleep and we have quite a lovely time together. I didn't mind it, because it felt like maybe slowly we were starting to rebuild our relationship a little bit.

I had mentioned to him several weeks ago that we should go on a "date" and he agreed but then we just never found a time to go- as is typical with our marriage, this has been our problem all along! I thought we'd sort of forgotten about it. Then the other night he says that his mother had offered to baby-sit so we could go out for dinner one night if we wanted, she so desperately wants us to work things out. I said that would be nice. I figured he would not have mentioned that to me if he didn't want to go.

Also there is a new aspect to this story. Turns out the work best friend that I have been suspicious of all along has a boyfriend of 2 years. And she just quit the job where she and my H worked together to go work for her boyfriend. I made a comment about her the other day and H just kind of shrugged it off with a "yeah, we probably won't talk much anymore, she's going to be busy at her new job." I asked where she had gone and he said "oh to work with her boyfriend, she was really excited." So.....sounds like maybe nothing was actually going on there?? Cannot tell.

And YET. I do believe he is still trying to hit on girls at work and see what he can do. He texts female coworkers a lot and jokes a lot about how much they "love him" and how popular he is. It chokes me. He sounds so full of himself. I think he is trying to turn back the clock and reinvent himself. I believe he suffers from low self esteem and got a new job in January where he is the big boss and has garnered a lot of respect and popularity...I think maybe it has gone to his head? He friends a new female on Facebook almost daily, and sadly I have been snooping and he has had several very flirty conversations with them via chat.

I have NO idea what he is up to. I am just going forwards, worrying about myself and my daughter, and will see where this path will take me....I have never been so confused and hurt.


----------

