# Still unsure what I want in life



## pragmaster

Hey everyone,

It's been a while since I have been here. I will be as brief as possible. Going through some big changes in my life and would appreciate some feedback. 

I'm 25 and after 3 years of what I thought was a good marriage, this past May, I came home one day and I my ex moved out. She said she needed space and needed time to think. 2 months go by and then she went on a trip to NY. I stayed faithful thinking she really did just need space and then we would do counselling together as planned. But then she wrote me a series of emails revealing she has been cheating on me for some time and was very unhappy. It has taken me a long time to accept the hard reality that our marriage was not working out and even longer to accept my mistakes in the relationship. I was betaized and totally let her walk all over me many times. I was completely heartbroken. No-one has ever cheated on me. It's quite painful and has been a detriment to my self-worth. After a few vacations, taking counselling from my friends and family, reading No More Mr. Nice Guy and even taking a relationship course with Dr.Glover, I am starting to do much better.

The house is in both of our names and it looks like she is going to be civil with the divorce. She has more to lose then I do. Lol. I can cover the house bills alone, but I found a renter to help out with my debt load. I checked with my lawyer and any income I make after the separation date is all mine, so I am in the clear there. We both don't want to sell the house to each other so in 3 years time when our mortgage is up we will just sell it to strangers and just move on. Although I would fight to keep it because it has the biggest backyard I have ever seen, I don't want to go to court and pay unnecessary costs. 
Plus, now that I won't be raising a family right away it makes sense to move into a smaller place with smaller bills and less yard work to occupy my time. 

She is paying the mortgage and her rent elsewhere. I know she can't afford it unless she finds a renter where she lives now. She's basically paying rent and house sitting for a friend who is in a different province. Eventually she will either have to move back in, go homeless/stay at a hostel, or stop paying the mortgage to keep living elsewhere and then I could take full possession. If she moved back in, I would not take her back as her husband or lover ever again. Her problem, her loss. 

So that's the situation. 

I am facing 2 problems these days:


1) She keeps wanting to be friends and I am really struggling with this. I am past the stage where I can't be in her presence without getting emotional. My thoughts are simply; what the hell is the point though? We don't have kids but we have a house together, but even then she's moved all her mail to her new place and she doesn't stop by often anymore. I don't feel binded to her anymore. Ever watch the movie celeste & jessie forever? I feel like part of her secretly hopes to get back together and that is why she wants to stay friends. That, or she thinks I will cave and feel bad for her and let her take the house or something like that. So my question goes primarily to MALES in the same boat. Would you still be friends with your EX if you didn't have to? 


2) I am having a lot of trouble figuring out what I want in women apart from sex, and maybe just a chill white girl to smoke some doobs with here and there. I know nobody can tell me what I want, but I seem to be stuck in this "careless" phase and I want it all. Anybody else go through this before? I'd like another monogamous relationship and I'd like kids before I am 30, although I am smart enough to know I should not jump into something so soon and take such risks. I have taken counselling. I am fit, take care of myself, dress well and keep myself busy. I have no problem getting numbers or going on dates or facing rejection. Dr.Glovers books have been a real eye opener for me and honestly have changed my life. My question is this, and anyone can answer it. Despite putting my passions in life first and despite meeting women and having the best sex life I have had in a long time, why do I feel like I am still attracted to every woman I see? Is this ever going to go away? Why do I feel like I won't be happy until I am in a monogamous relationship again? Is serial monogamy a real thing? 

It's nice asking people who don't know you for advice.

Thanks!


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## PBear

Why are you even asking about the "friend" thing? If you don't want to have her around, then don't. You talked about getting over your "betacized", but your question shows that's not complete yet. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pragmaster

PBear said:


> Why are you even asking about the "friend" thing? If you don't want to have her around, then don't. You talked about getting over your "betacized", but your question shows that's not complete yet.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Answer the question or don't bother dude. I asked what would YOU do. Not ME.


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## PBear

pragmaster said:


> Answer the question or don't bother dude. I asked what would YOU do. Not ME.


I'd tell her to screw off, personally. So what are YOU going to do?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ne9907

pragmaster said:


> Answer the question or don't bother dude. I asked what would YOU do. Not ME.


I know you are in a difficult place at this moment, but do not be rude to people who are trying to help you. Sometimes a rhetorical question is exactly what people need. 
We do not have all the answers, only you do.

I would not be friends with the ex. 



> I know nobody can tell me what I want, but I seem to be stuck in this "careless" phase and I want it all. Anybody else go through this before?


Yes, then the phase morphs into anxiety, fear about the future, then morphs again into carelessness. 



> My question is this, and anyone can answer it. Despite putting my passions in life first and despite meeting women and having the best sex life I have had in a long time, why do I feel like I am still attracted to every woman I see? Is this ever going to go away? Why do I feel like I won't be happy until I am in a monogamous relationship again? Is serial monogamy a real thing?


You went through a very traumatic event in your life, a lot of people take divorce lightly, but those of us who seek help, who seek answers know that divorce elicits a lot of thought provoking questions.
I believe in monogamy. But I do not believe in marriage. 
Continue challenging yourself and questioning your surroundings. That is what keep us evolving, maturing, and human 

Good luck to you!


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## soccermom2three

Why do you have to wait 3 years to sell the house? Is there a prepayment penalty? I think selling the house as soon as possible is a good idea so there's nothing left to connect her to you. Especially if you're emotional every time you see her.


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## pragmaster

Thanks PBear. Sorry for sounding rude if I was. Honestly, I'd like to remain friends with her. Not because I still love her or hope we could revive the relationship; no way. Not interested. I'm over it and I have moved on. I will never take her back nor have sex with her. I just don't have any women friends. Not a single one! It's been kind of nice to talk to her about other girls I have since dated and her thoughts, and same vice versa. We both seem to be over each other and have moved on with our lives. And there's no way I am talking to my mom about my sex life. Lol. 

Thanks ne9907. I guess it is traumatic! Lol. Great perspective. 

What harm could come from being friends with the ex though? What is a concrete example of a negative consequence of this? (apart from a ****block when I am trying to be with another girl). I am just not seeing the harm here now that we are over each other. 

soccermom2three, yeah we would have to pay a large penalty. We both don't want to pay that. It's a great house and plus I am very comfortable and don't want to move. Lol. I am not emotional when I am around her anymore, and so this is why I am struggling. If I was emotional then it would be a clear NO. 

Thanks!


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## PBear

No offense taken. But there's no right answer. If you want to be friends with her until it no longer works for you, fill your boots. It's probably not gong to cause any harm. 

In my case, I'm chosing not to. My ex and I are amicable. I've helped her out with stuff, but we don't ever just chat for the fun of it. The only reason I'm usually ever in touch with her is because of the kids. But that's my choice, based on my life and relationship.

Do be aware that future partners will likely not like a "friendly" relationship. Makes people nervous. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soccermom2three

Well, hopefully in the next 3 years she will change her mind and sell you the house if you still want it.


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## lifeistooshort

I'd cut ties. There's no reason to stay friends, you don't really want to, and I agree with PBear that future partners won't like it anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm

lifeistooshort said:


> I'd cut ties. There's no reason to stay friends, you don't really want to, and I agree with PBear *that future partners won't like it anyway.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: This is the main reason, right here. There are no kids between you, make a clean cut.


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## SamuraiJack

I dont let people treat me like that and remain "friends" with them...I would drop her like a hot rock and move on.


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## poppyseed

pragmaster said:


> 2) I am having a lot of trouble figuring out what I want in women apart from sex, and maybe just a chill white girl to smoke some doobs with here and there. I know nobody can tell me what I want, but I seem to be stuck in this "careless" phase and I want it all. Anybody else go through this before? I'd like another monogamous relationship and I'd like kids before I am 30, although I am smart enough to know I should not jump into something so soon and take such risks.
> 
> 
> 
> I have taken counselling. I am fit, take care of myself, dress well and keep myself busy. I have no problem getting numbers or going on dates or facing rejection. Dr.Glovers books have been a real eye opener for me and honestly have changed my life. My question is this, and anyone can answer it. Despite putting my passions in life first and despite meeting women and having the best sex life I have had in a long time, why do I feel like I am still attracted to every woman I see? Is this ever going to go away? Why do I feel like I won't be happy until I am in a monogamous relationship again? Is serial monogamy a real thing?


So you are in your Twenties..what else do you do when you are not reading relationship self-books and thinking about what you want in women and wanting to have a family before 30s? 

Give yourself a chance to explore the world, for example? Travels, experiencing other cultures, education, climbing mt everest, do many wonderful other things you would be able to try? Live a little more besides "relationships" and women.


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## Paradise

poppyseed said:


> So you are in your Twenties..what else do you do when you are not reading relationship self-books and thinking about what you want in women and wanting to have a family before 30s?
> 
> Give yourself a chance to explore the world, for example? Travels, experiencing other cultures, education, climbing mt everest, do many wonderful other things you would be able to try? Live a little more besides "relationships" and women.


This is very good advice. Maybe I need to take it as well!!!


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## pragmaster

Lots of stuff man. I work a lot of my house, jam with buddies, dancing, record music sometimes, do gardening and I love to fish. 

My buddy says the same thing about exploring the world. I like travelling, but what do I do when I travel? Walk everywhere and try and to meet girls in the process! Call it short attention span or just easily bored, sight seeing, history and museums just don't interest me...unless I am exploring or doing crazy things like underwater cave diving, trekking through a jungle, or other dangerous activities that I should probably not do alone anyways. Lol 

I live in Canada and the next place I would travel would be Ontario or the maritimes. Otherwise South America or India. Apart from a couple spots in California, I have absolutely zero interest to go to US. 

It's hard for me not to be okay with being friends with her. I'm very forgiving and realistically, she was already out of the relationship. I was too stubborn to see it. It's not like she's still seeing the guy and even then I wouldn't care. I'm good now. As for future partners, I wouldn't tell them **** about my ex. Lol. That's just dumb. It's not like I'd be hanging with her everyday.


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## Mo24

If youre 'friends' with her now, when you do have someone else and she is still in contact with you, the new girl will likely feel threatened, wondering what the reason is for all the contact. 

I had a gf shortly after my divorce and this became a significant issue, especially since my ex likes to text. We have kids too so most of the time there was a reason, but the gf was often asking why she had to call and text all the time, and she was holding back what she really wanted to say. 

If you dont care, then you dont care, but it is going to be harder to get your ex to back off if you find someone who it does bother, unless you break it now.


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## pragmaster

True.

My ex doesn't text much so I guess I am lucky here.


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## pragmaster

Question. This may be an obvious red flag to some but I'd like some insight. 

I hung out with the ex last night. Went over to her place and watched a movie. We get along pretty good these days. I decided to stay friends with her. Not because I feel bad for her or because I am still in love or attached with her. No. She's just a cool gal and we enjoy each others company. I've been on many great dates since and I have seen that there are much better options out there for me in terms of partners and sexual opportunities. I'm getting my needs met elsewhere and life is pretty good right now. 

Half way through the movie she bobbed her head and she seemed pretty tense. I offered a back massage. She accepted.

My "skills" have drastically improved since the last time I hung out with her, and as well, my general self-esteem and outlook on life. I felt like bugging her and started teasing her sexually...doing things like kissing her neck and lightly bitting her ears... pulling her hair a bit. Also, in my "jedi training", I realized that my ex-wife was a perfect example of a very submissive wife and I wanted to prove it for myself that I was right. 

And I was right!! She let me. Her body was like a puppet. She didn't resist or anything. Anyways, I teased her a bit but that's as far as it got. We finished the movie and I left. I wasn't going to play with her, have sex with her nor even let her kiss me. (she didn't try or show any interest either, but she did moan and obviously liked it). 

But my question is this. What does this all mean? Why would she let me do this to her?

Truthfully I hate submissive women. Nothing worse then having to do the work all the time.

I'm just wondering if I am crossing the line or not.


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## 3Xnocharm

pragmaster said:


> It's hard for me not to be okay with being friends with her. I'm very forgiving and realistically, she was already out of the relationship. I was too stubborn to see it. It's not like she's still seeing the guy and even then I wouldn't care. I'm good now. *As for future partners, I wouldn't tell them **** about my ex. Lol. That's just dumb. It's not like I'd be hanging with her everyday.*


Oooh, so you are going to LIE to new partners. THAT should go well.


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## 3Xnocharm

pragmaster said:


> Question. This may be an obvious red flag to some but I'd like some insight.
> 
> I hung out with the ex last night. Went over to her place and watched a movie. We get along pretty good these days. I decided to stay friends with her. Not because I feel bad for her or because I am still in love or attached with her. No. She's just a cool gal and we enjoy each others company. I've been on many great dates since and I have seen that there are much better options out there for me in terms of partners and sexual opportunities. I'm getting my needs met elsewhere and life is pretty good right now.
> 
> Half way through the movie she bobbed her head and she seemed pretty tense. I offered a back massage. She accepted.
> 
> My "skills" have drastically improved since the last time I hung out with her, and as well, my general self-esteem and outlook on life. I felt like bugging her and started teasing her sexually...doing things like kissing her neck and lightly bitting her ears... pulling her hair a bit. Also, in my "jedi training", I realized that my ex-wife was a perfect example of a very submissive wife and I wanted to prove it for myself that I was right.
> 
> And I was right!! She let me. Her body was like a puppet. She didn't resist or anything. Anyways, I teased her a bit but that's as far as it got. We finished the movie and I left. I wasn't going to play with her, have sex with her nor even let her kiss me. (she didn't try or show any interest either, but she did moan and obviously liked it).
> *
> But my question is this. What does this all mean? Why would she let me do this to her?
> *
> Truthfully I hate submissive women. Nothing worse then having to do the work all the time.
> 
> *I'm just wondering if I am crossing the line or not*.


The better question is WHY you would do this in the first place?? 

And YES, you are crossing a line.


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## ne9907

pragmaster said:


> Question. This may be an obvious red flag to some but I'd like some insight.
> 
> I hung out with the ex last night. Went over to her place and watched a movie. We get along pretty good these days. I decided to stay friends with her. Not because I feel bad for her or because I am still in love or attached with her. No. She's just a cool gal and we enjoy each others company. I've been on many great dates since and I have seen that there are much better options out there for me in terms of partners and sexual opportunities. I'm getting my needs met elsewhere and life is pretty good right now.
> 
> Half way through the movie she bobbed her head and she seemed pretty tense. I offered a back massage. She accepted.
> 
> My "skills" have drastically improved since the last time I hung out with her, and as well, my general self-esteem and outlook on life. I felt like bugging her and started teasing her sexually...doing things like kissing her neck and lightly bitting her ears... pulling her hair a bit. Also, in my "jedi training", I realized that my ex-wife was a perfect example of a very submissive wife and I wanted to prove it for myself that I was right.
> 
> And I was right!! She let me. Her body was like a puppet. She didn't resist or anything. Anyways, I teased her a bit but that's as far as it got. We finished the movie and I left. I wasn't going to play with her, have sex with her nor even let her kiss me. (she didn't try or show any interest either, but she did moan and obviously liked it).
> 
> *But my question is this. What does this all mean? Why would she let me do this to her?*
> 
> Truthfully I hate submissive women. Nothing worse then having to do the work all the time.
> 
> I'm just wondering if I am crossing the line or not.


wow.... just wow....

Why are you doing this?

She "let" you do those things because she obviously still has feelings for you. You are acting like a condecending douche. You said you have no intention to have sex with her, and you also stated "I hate submissive women" so my question is.... why?

Does it give you an ego boost?


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## pragmaster

3Xnocharm said:


> Oooh, so you are going to LIE to new partners. THAT should go well.


I don't plan on having new partners or serious relationships right away for one. For two, no, I wouldn't lie if they asked, but I'm not going to openly tell them that I still hang out with the ex sometimes. It's not like I hang out with her in public or somewhere we could be seen. Even then I don't care. All they need to know is that I am on good terms with her and still see her to deliver the mail.


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## pragmaster

ne9907 said:


> wow.... just wow....
> 
> Why are you doing this?
> 
> She "let" you do those things because she obviously still has feelings for you. You are acting like a condecending douche. You said you have no intention to have sex with her, and you also stated "I hate submissive women" so my question is.... why?
> 
> Does it give you an ego boost?


I think it's because for the longest time she expressed not having ANY feelings for me and now that I see that she does, part of me is interested. I can say x,y z but I guess the reality is I still have feelings for her too. I can deny and deny and deny it but that's the truth.

If there is an opportunity to get laid, why not take it?

Call me a pig or a condescending douche. Whatever. I never turn down sex. 

Seeing the girls right before going to her place gives me the ego boost.

I asked the question because I was not sure if she might have feelings for me still or not.

It seems she does? When her body reacts a certain way but her mouth says otherwise, I just don't know what to think. 

Do I keep going or not? Obviously you can't answer that for me. 

Thanks.


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## pragmaster

The more I reread the **** I type the more I change my mind. I do that a lot.

If she came over tomorrow and begged me back, I am not sure that I would have the strength to turn her down, for I too want that. Despite everything that has happened, if she submitted to my conditions, I would say welcome back. 

I just don't know how to be in that middle ground. Either I love her or hate her. And I don't want to hate her. 

 Sorry. Just so confused.


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## HeartbrokenW

pragmaster said:


> I just don't know how to be in that middle ground. Either I love her or hate her. And I don't want to hate her.
> 
> Sorry. Just so confused.


And that's why you shouldn't be friends. You need to detach. You can't do that if you're giving her backrubs and whatnot.


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## RandomDude

She cheated on you and wants to remain friends?

If a mate stabs you in the back would you want to remain friends? Yes that's what she did when she cheated on you.


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## 3Xnocharm

pragmaster said:


> I don't plan on having new partners or serious relationships right away for one. For two, no, I wouldn't lie if they asked, but I'm not going to openly tell them that I still hang out with the ex sometimes. It's not like I hang out with her in public or somewhere we could be seen. Even then I don't care. All they need to know is that I am on good terms with her and still see her to deliver the mail.


This is WRONG. Lying by omission. You will never have a healthy relationship with attitude and approach.


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## pragmaster

1) I said she cheated, but now that I've clear my head and thought about it, she really didn't. I was just emotional and needed a reason to justify my anger. She moved out and it was over. I was too stubborn to admit it. The fact that I accused her of cheating after she verbally expressed that the relationship was over, time after time, if anything, was rude and selfish (especially the part where I made it public). Yeah she hurt me, but whether she cheated or not during or after the relationship does not matter. Heck she told me. That took courage. I never said I was the most faithful boy either. So for the sake of moving forward, just presume we both did each other the same amount of wrong. We have both forgiven each other. 

2) "If a mate stabs you in the back would you want to remain friends?". It honestly depends. I have no tolerance for thieves, but that's it. I am a very forgiving person. Human's make mistakes. What more do you expect? I grew up very close to my brothers. We picked and stabbed and hurt each other all the time, but we made amends and if anything our relationships are stronger then ever. I think it's really sad that people have forgotten what true forgiveness is. Not like anyone was raped or murdered. Lol. 


TO: 3Xnocharm. You are absolutely right. That's why avoid going out with girls with trust issues that can't handle the truth. 


Can you please give your age when you post? I'd like some advice from people in the same age group as me.


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## 3Xnocharm

pragmaster said:


> 1) I said she cheated, but now that I've clear my head and thought about it, she really didn't. I was just emotional and needed a reason to justify my anger. She moved out and it was over. I was too stubborn to admit it. The fact that I accused her of cheating after she verbally expressed that the relationship was over, time after time, if anything, was rude and selfish (especially the part where I made it public). Yeah she hurt me, but whether she cheated or not during or after the relationship does not matter. Heck she told me. That took courage. I never said I was the most faithful boy either. So for the sake of moving forward, just presume we both did each other the same amount of wrong. We have both forgiven each other.
> 
> 2) "If a mate stabs you in the back would you want to remain friends?". It honestly depends. I have no tolerance for thieves, but that's it. I am a very forgiving person. Human's make mistakes. What more do you expect? I grew up very close to my brothers. We picked and stabbed and hurt each other all the time, but we made amends and if anything our relationships are stronger then ever. I think it's really sad that people have forgotten what true forgiveness is. Not like anyone was raped or murdered. Lol.
> 
> 
> TO: 3Xnocharm. You are absolutely right. That's why avoid going out with girls with trust issues that can't handle the truth.
> 
> 
> Can you please give your age when you post? I'd like some advice from people in the same age group as me.


Seriously? You have 20 years to catch up with my experience. But what the fvck do I know??


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## pragmaster

3Xnocharm, sorry if I offended you.


This is going nowhere fast. lol.

I've digressed. Please allow me to circle back to the main reason for the thread...

Has anyone been successful in staying friends with their ex after divorce? Is it really that stupid, or is it just difficult?


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## 3Xnocharm

My first husband and I have always been on good terms since we split because of our daughter. I dont like him very much, but we have managed to work together for the most part. If it wasnt for her, I would have cut him out of my life. I have an ex boyfriend that I am still friends with, we work together. 

You are still too emotionally attached to this woman to be friends. You dont have to hate her, but in order to move forward with your life, you need to cut her loose from it. You are trying to convince yourself that she didnt REALLY cheat, even though she told you herself that she did. That in itself indicates an unhealthy attachment on your part. 

My advice? Yes, you can be friends with an ex after divorce, but in YOUR case....you should not be.


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## pragmaster

She didn't cheat on me dude. I lied and told everyone she did, but she didn't. It was already over. 



Okay. Thanks man. Sigh. I just feel very bad for her.


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## 3Xnocharm

pragmaster said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> It's been a while since I have been here. I will be as brief as possible. Going through some big changes in my life and would appreciate some feedback.
> 
> I'm 25 and after 3 years of what I thought was a good marriage, this past May, I came home one day and I my ex moved out. She said she needed space and needed time to think. 2 months go by and then she went on a trip to NY. I stayed faithful thinking she really did just need space and then we would do counselling together as planned. But then she wrote me a series of emails revealing she has been cheating on me for some time and was very unhappy. It has taken me a long time to accept the hard reality that our marriage was not working out and even longer to accept my mistakes in the relationship. I was betaized and totally let her walk all over me many times. I was completely heartbroken. No-one has ever cheated on me. It's quite painful and has been a detriment to my self-worth. After a few vacations, taking counselling from my friends and family, reading No More Mr. Nice Guy and even taking a relationship course with Dr.Glover, I am starting to do much better.
> 
> The house is in both of our names and it looks like she is going to be civil with the divorce. She has more to lose then I do. Lol. I can cover the house bills alone, but I found a renter to help out with my debt load. I checked with my lawyer and any income I make after the separation date is all mine, so I am in the clear there. We both don't want to sell the house to each other so in 3 years time when our mortgage is up we will just sell it to strangers and just move on. Although I would fight to keep it because it has the biggest backyard I have ever seen, I don't want to go to court and pay unnecessary costs.
> Plus, now that I won't be raising a family right away it makes sense to move into a smaller place with smaller bills and less yard work to occupy my time.
> 
> She is paying the mortgage and her rent elsewhere. I know she can't afford it unless she finds a renter where she lives now. She's basically paying rent and house sitting for a friend who is in a different province. Eventually she will either have to move back in, go homeless/stay at a hostel, or stop paying the mortgage to keep living elsewhere and then I could take full possession. If she moved back in, I would not take her back as her husband or lover ever again. Her problem, her loss.
> 
> So that's the situation.
> 
> I am facing 2 problems these days:
> 
> 
> 1) She keeps wanting to be friends and I am really struggling with this. I am past the stage where I can't be in her presence without getting emotional. My thoughts are simply; what the hell is the point though? We don't have kids but we have a house together, but even then she's moved all her mail to her new place and she doesn't stop by often anymore. I don't feel binded to her anymore. Ever watch the movie celeste & jessie forever? I feel like part of her secretly hopes to get back together and that is why she wants to stay friends. That, or she thinks I will cave and feel bad for her and let her take the house or something like that. So my question goes primarily to MALES in the same boat. Would you still be friends with your EX if you didn't have to?
> 
> 
> Thanks!





pragmaster said:


> She didn't cheat on me dude. I lied and told everyone she did, but she didn't. It was already over.


So what you stated above in your OP was a lie? :scratchhead:




pragmaster said:


> Okay. Thanks man. Sigh. I just feel very bad for her.


Why do you feel bad for HER? She LEFT you. However her life is now...SHE CHOSE it.


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## pragmaster

Most of it is true. I just worded it to make her look worse. I was venting. 

You're right. She did leave. She has to deal with it now. 

As though as it is for me, I have no choice it seems. It's just sad. I've never been one to burn bridges. Heck I still hang with a lot of my ex girlfriends to this very day. 


After I get the marriage certificate I will stop communicating with her completely.


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## pragmaster

Guys...I'm freaking out.


I'm not sure if I can cut her out of my life. I don't think I have the strength to do it. I feel like being friends is ridiculous and she should f off for all the pain she has caused me...but still part of me still loves her.


What do I do? I already deleted her numbers from my phone, but I remember them. 

I know I need to do it. I just wish someone could do it for me. I'm at a real loss here. Helpless and weak.


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## PBear

And this is why you SHOULD cut off communication with her. Until you can do that, you won't be in a healthy place to move on. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pragmaster

My question is how specifically though???

Just ignore texts?? 

I have never done this to anyone before.


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## pragmaster

I sent her a very long text today stating I can't be friends with her anymore. I told her I can't be friends with someone I don't trust and who doesn't respect me, for reasons realistically not merited. 

I went on to say that I don't have her back anymore, I am taking the house and she can expect a nice letter in the mail sometime soon.

I'M FREE. I HOPE I NEVER SEE HER AGAIN.

It was so tough. Toughest text of my life. She doesn't deserve the unfriending in person.

I was very mean. Hopefully it doesn't come back and bite me in the ass.


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## PBear

pragmaster said:


> I sent her a very long text today stating I can't be friends with her anymore. I told her I can't be friends with someone I don't trust and who doesn't respect me, for reasons realistically not merited.
> 
> I went on to say that I don't have her back anymore, I am taking the house and she can expect a nice letter in the mail sometime soon.
> 
> I'M FREE. I HOPE I NEVER SEE HER AGAIN.
> 
> It was so tough. Toughest text of my life. She doesn't deserve the unfriending in person.


So you went from wanting to be friends with her to saying she doesn't deserve "unfriending" in person? That's kind of going from one extreme to the other, no?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Scannerguard

DISCLOSURE: I did not read all responses in between my post.

*A. FRIENDS THING:
*That's more to assuage her guilt, not really about being friends probably. I am of the philosophy that you need all the friends you can get but if you don't want to be friends, then don't.

Chick needs to learn consequences.

*B. FRIENDS WITH WOMEN IN GENERAL
*Ironically, I have been struggling with this issue but on a different dimension. I have 3 difficult women in my life - my girlfriend, my mother, and my sister. 

I have been "at a place" lately where I generally just don't like women.

My friend said it poetically:

"I like women for the color they bring to the plate, the color they bring to life, but for the most part, I don't agree with how they lead or solve problems or even approach a problem."

They tend to want to complicate stuff; they want to unwind a ball of tangled string by throwing more string on it.

Now, is this just of a couple of dudes crying in our beers? I don't know.

*C. YOUR YOUTH
*
You aren't even 30 years old yet (I think that's what I deduced). I wouldn't draw so many conclusions or make so many plans.


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## Lon

Prag, you are all over the place man.

Did she wrong you or not? Did you wrong her or not? Why did the marriage fail? She needed some room to think, you said you have evidence she was cheating for a long time, but then you retracted that all? WTF? So if she did not cheat, how did things get from where they were (her having space, separating) to where they are now (you decided the marriage was over?). Who finally pulled the plug on the marriage? Did one of you petition the court for separation agreement, or are you just doing a DIY divorce kit?

Originally I was going to say, as like Scannerguard above, her wanting to be friends was to assuage her guilt for cheating, but since you retracted your testimony on here I don't think anybody can have a clue.

As for what you want from women, your STBXW or people in general is totally up to you. You don't have to pursue LTR to enjoy getting to meet and know people.

Good luck, I think you need more therapy with an IC to help you through this part of your journey, because it seems like you are struggling to identify your needs.


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## pragmaster

Lon said:


> Prag, you are all over the place man.
> 
> Did she wrong you or not? Did you wrong her or not? Why did the marriage fail?
> 
> She needed some room to think, you said you have evidence she was cheating for
> 
> a long time, but then you retracted that all? WTF? So if she did not cheat,
> 
> how did things get from where they were (her having space, separating) to where
> 
> they are now (you decided the marriage was over?). Who finally pulled the plug
> 
> on the marriage? Did one of you petition the court for separation agreement, or
> 
> are you just doing a DIY divorce kit?
> 
> Originally I was going to say, as like Scannerguard above, her wanting to be
> 
> friends was to assuage her guilt for cheating, but since you retracted your
> 
> testimony on here I don't think anybody can have a clue.
> 
> As for what you want from women, your STBXW or people in general is totally up
> 
> to you. You don't have to pursue LTR to enjoy getting to meet and know people.
> 
> Good luck, I think you need more therapy with an IC to help you through this
> 
> part of your journey, because it seems like you are struggling to identify your
> 
> needs.


Here is a quick recap. You tell me who did who wrong. I really don't know 

anymore.

1) Dated for 3 years. She said either marry me or I don't want to see you anymore (yes, she made me an ultimatum and that should have been the sign not to continue with her). I proposed. We got married. Honeymoon was ****. I moved in with her shortly after. We made a good team financially. We cleaned well together. Everything was good. We had date nights. I stopped flirting with her because I thought it was not necessary (hard lesson learned). I started playing cards online one day and eventually I was spending every night on the damn PC. Sex became a chore and I continuously told her how I needed more intimacy from her. She would NEVER let me have sex with her without a condom and that really killed a lot of the potential passion that I knew I could bring to the table. I started slacking. I got addicted to online games. She started getting sad because we stopped having date nights. She said I never listened to her, she felt lonely, she felt unheard. She hated going to my parents and I hated going to church. We started bargaining under the guise of "compromise is normal in marriage". You do this and I'll do that. She started withholding sex when the bargaining wasn't in her favor. 

We had a long talk about our relationship. We were saving up for a house at the time. We agreed to try and work it out no matter what. This is the part this pisses me off. We knew we had troubles. I gave her the option to get out now before we bought a house but she did not take it. 

We bought the house. We moved in. Man life was great! Then we started to try and have kids and that's when **** hit the fan. 
She started sleeping in the guest room to avoid having sex with me. Then she stopped kissing and hugging me. It was really stupid. A true climax. Went from the time of my life to the worse; nearly overnight. Then one day she said something really stupid and I called her on it. She ran off crying. Went to work the next day, came home, half of her stuff was gone. After pleading with her by text to come back, she said she would but she needs time to think about her future with me. 2 months go by. I'm still faithful and waiting. I start getting letters from her. Long ass letters...like 10 pagers...She wrote how sad she was and things she hated and loved about me. Letter after letter, each one devastingly painful. She said she wrote letters because she couldn't talk to me. She said she always felt like she was being judged and never trusted me (then why the f did you marry me you know?!0). Then she said she decided to come back provided I meet her conditions (yeah I was the 
kiss ass). I made some conditions too, but looking back, they were very weak and I did not stand by them like I should have. She then said she had one final letter for me first. She reveals in this final letter three things. The first is that she was raped, tortured and had to had an abortion from a monster of man she used to date, that was introduced to her by her sister. (I finally found out why she doesn't talk to her moms side of the family...and that's why). The second is that after that horrifying event she met a guy who was apparently the "perfect man". He left because he couldn't handle her religion, or at least that's what she said. This was a brutal letter. She compared this perfect man with me. The third thing is what broke my heart into a billion ****ing pieces. She admitted to having a one night stand with this random guy in a very detailed manor. As soon as I read the email I drove over to where she was staying. She wasn't here. I called her. I freaked out really. Wanted to kill the guy. I told her i'd take her back and forgive her. She moved back in on a Saturday. Things were great, I thought...but she wouldn't kiss or hug me and that was part of my condition. I just let her walk over me there. The next day she gave me a ride because I was having car problems. We had some time to kill. I jokingly said do you want to go have a quick one at home...She kind of brushed it off. In my condition to be with her I said that I wouldn't ask her for sex. She told me she hated when I did that. I didn't know how to really get her to **** me until after I read the married man's sex life primer and no more mr. nice guy. It's a real shame. I wish I read those books before I got married. They really changed the way I act with women. Like seriously. It's bull****. In a way this divorce is a good thing because I don't think I would have ever read those books. I learned A RIDICULOUS AMOUNT about women. It has changed my "game" forever. Anyways, I went to work and came back after to find ALL of her stuff moved out. 

I don't have evidence that she was cheating other then towards the end where I could tell she was hiding stuff from me...and the letters of course. 

I've talked to her about it a few times. She strongly believes she did not cheat because she had already left the marriage... She said she tried to tell me many times she was unhappy with our marriage but never that she would just leave like that. Like seriously. She was an amazing actress or I was either a pre-occupied blind fool. Probably both. I never knew it was that bad. So in a way, we both did each other wrong but she really sealed the nail to the coffin. I took her for granted and she withheld really important information from me. Like seriously. I'd come home every odd day and she'd be crying in her room. I'd ask her why. She'd never tell me. I would tell her things to make her feel better. She would call me insensitive. I eventually just stopped trying to console her.

In my mind the marriage failed because of trust. She didn't trust me enough to tell me about her past (and when I would ask she would usually withdraw) and I couldn't trust her anymore after she cheated. 

I petitioned for divorce. She got one of those DIY kits which I thought was a joke. 

It's not that I retracted my words. Just been really emotional, bordering on love/hate. I just don't know if she "technically cheated" although I'd like to think she did. 

My needs? I just want a nice girl to cuddle and have sex with. Enjoy time with me, appreciate my music. Get stoned and drunk sometimes. Be friends with my friends. A simple girl. I wanted kids. Are those considered needs or wants? I don't know. But that's all I want. 

That is my long answer. Lol Thanks. I feel better already just writing it all out again.


----------



## PBear

TLDR. But why did you go from wanting to be friends with her on page 1 of this thread to feeling how you last posted?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pragmaster

Because I thought it was possible. I didn't think that being with her would re-open the wounds. I thought I had healed enough but I guess not. Emotionally I feel I am almost back at square one. Perhaps in a very long time it can happen, but the short answer is I was depressed and desperate to cling on to any piece of her I had left. It sucks because I tend to be impatient and rush things. I change my mind a lot (always been like that). It seems this is something that might take me years to heal from, which is ****.


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## pragmaster

Guys,

HELP.

I talked to her today. She said she would come back.

The mind games are having a devastating impact on me. 


I want her back so bad, but at the same time, I know how bad it is for me.

What do I do??? How can I make the best decision here?


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## 3Xnocharm

pragmaster said:


> Guys,
> 
> HELP.
> 
> I talked to her today. She said she would come back.
> 
> The mind games are having a devastating impact on me.
> 
> 
> I want her back so bad, but at the same time, I know how bad it is for me.
> 
> What do I do??? How can I make the best decision here?


Dont do it. What exactly has changed? Nothing, thats what. You will be right back to square one, and will have to go through all of this again. You are clinging to something that used to be instead of seeing the reality of what is.


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## EnjoliWoman

Don't do it.

Bottom line(s) here - you are really REALLY immature still. And you are trying to play grown up and you aren't ready for it.

In your marriage you opted to play games (GAMES!!!! are you freakin 17????) and ignore her, ignore the issues and just thought things would somehow work themselves out.

Your moods and responses swing wildly so you aren't yet capable of self-control as it relates to thought and emotion. You can't help your feelings but you are being very reactive - like a ping-pong ball. Your thoughts, decisions, etc. are bouncing all over. You need to learn to calm and center yourself.

You need to block her number, remove her from any social media, only deal in email until all "business" from the marriage is resolved and then go completely NC. Because until you do, you aren't thinking with a clear head.

You want to bang everything you see, yet you chose games over your own wife. You exaggerate, do knee-jerk responses (to her and even here on page 1) are then regretful - Dude you are all over the place! You don't know how to handle your business at all. You're jerking her around being a tease, not sure why she's letting you. That was being a real jerk. 

We all need help from time to time so I'm glad you came here. Stop focusing on kids before 30. Why? What's wrong with being 35 and having a wife that's 30? You are trying to play grown-up before you are ready because you can't handle the difficult discussions and open communication required. All of this self-imposed pressure is becoming too much and you're mentally zig-zagging all over.

Let her go, block contact. DO NOT ENTER INTO ANY RELATIONSHIP. Do not date. Do not chat girls up. No one night stands. Your hand is your best girl right now.

I'm not sure if some counseling would help or not. It won't HURT, but really I just think you need to mature some. You can't rush time. That's why so many marriages that start young don't last. I've never officially "meditated" but that wouldn't hurt because you would learn to quiet your head some so you can think clearly.

Maybe read some books on some mental exercises and techniques. Stop being reactionary. Act, don't REact. Real men make decisions carefully, calmly and thoughtfully and that is why they can proceed with absolute confidence.

TLDR? Slow your roll.


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## Hardtohandle

My Ex wife crushed me as well. I thought of suicided. 

I have kids with my Ex and I don't talk to her.. 

She just doesn't exist to me now or ever..

I dont' stop my kids from talking to her, but I don't encourage it either.. 

She isn't your friend and never was.. Be happy you found out now and learned this harsh lesson now and not 20 years later like I did..

Home choices.. 

1. Rent it until you can sell it 3 years from now.

2. Stay there and maybe 2 years from now she might change her mind about selling it to you..

3. Use her friends bullsh!t against her and again wait 12 months and tell her selling it is just too hard for you.. It reminds you of her and want to keep it because of how you feel..

If the home is actually a good deal, I would wait and try to keep it..


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## PBear

First off, try to stick with one thread. It's hard to follow your story. Second, as others have said, what's changed? Why would you expect the future to be different than the past?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pragmaster

Your post really frustrates me EnjoliWoman. While you are right for the most part.... URGHH! 

There is so much I want to say to you to defend myself but there is no point arguing with a stranger. 

No, I didn't ignore her and play games. I took her for granted, but dang it I did not ignore her. I tried to take her to councelling and communicate with her. She constantly blocked me out and eventually I gave up. She never told me about her HORRIBLE past until the very end. If I knew, I would have NEVER acted the way I did. I never had self-control or emotional issues until I met her, or at least they didn't surface until then. I used to blanket everything. Now I am dealing as I go. I'm working on it. 

Topple that with the fact that as soon as I got married
I stopped flirting with her entirely. I used to be bad at flirting, so I hated it. I never thought it mattered. I never knew how important it was until I read No More Mr. Nice Guy and the married man sex life primer a few months ago. How wrong I was! And you know what? Since I've been dating, I have been practicing my flirting, and I'm really starting to enjoy it, to a point that I realize it's CRUCIAL in a healthy sex life. Seriously guys, I can't believe I dropped the ball like that for nearly 6 years straight. I had no idea how important flirting was in a relationship. Consider me like Sheldon Cooper. That's why I am having a hard time letting go. All of my mistakes...were really simple ones! And I didn't just marry her out of the blue either. I thought long and hard about getting married. Like most men I am frustrated with what I can't fix, especially now that I have a new toolbelt (or I'd like to think). 

When I talk to my friends, they tell me similar things...but I am the reactionary, pragmastist, humorist, musician, hippy goof-ball. That is me, and I love me. Yes, I have been all over the place lately, but you know what, I usually am. I do meditate, but I've always been very reactionary person. I am a blurter. Maybe I have done too many mushrooms in the past, or perhaps not enough. 

I probably shouldn't date for a while but I don't really care. The right hand does not cut it anymore. I think part of me thinks that it will get harder to date as I get older and to take advantage of my youth while I can. The wanting kids early is a great contradiction, but the reality is I don't want to be old and have teens. I just try and live each day like tomorrow is my last, and if it means I can't talk or be with my ex-wife, then so be it. I just don't want to leave on a sour note. If I truly love her, I also need to let her go and respect her wishes. But she is giving me mix signals. I don't know what she wants. Her actions say one thing, but when I tell her that directly, she tells me not to judge her. Confusing!! 

All aspects of my life, otherwise, are great. It's just this damn woman.

One question though:

1) You said" You're jerking her around being a tease". HOW SO???? How can I be teasing her if she doesn't even want to be with me? I have no problem reading other women, but my ex...She is extremely difficult and guessing only gets me in trouble. 

I was immature when I got married and in ways I still am. But at least I am aware of it. That's why I think it could work out. Awareness and new knowledge. 

Lastly, you said:
"You are trying to play grown-up before you are ready because you can't handle the difficult discussions and open communication required. "
-I can handle them. She can't. That's the problem, believe it or not. 

Thanks everyone. I think that's about all you can say.


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## turnera

pragmaster said:


> I like travelling, but what do I do when I travel? Walk everywhere and try and to meet girls in the process!


What you describe is unhealthy. You've mentioned it several times, this feeling that you aren't complete unless a woman wants you, that you can't have fun unless a woman has fun with you. My guess is that you're pinning your self worth on your being selected, even when you're on the hunt for women. Until you get THAT fixed, you'll never be happy. In fact, it probably contributed to her wanting a different kind of guy.


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## pragmaster

I never said the word complete.

I can have fun alone, but come on dude. You're born alone and you die alone. I'll have my last days to myself. I've always figured I might as well spend as much time with people as possible. 

I will agree that part of that was true in the past. Now it is not though. I don't need women in my life to have fun, but I certainly do enjoy their company. When I am dating these days, I am completely unattached to the point where I can even be disrespectful if I don't pay attention. I've read No More Mr. Nice Guy and tried to study it and apply it to my life. I know what you mean. I see. 

You quoted something completely out of context. So what if I like to meet girls when I travel? Museums, landscapes and all of that other touristy crap...to me is boring! I'd much rather share an experience with someone else then alone. Doesn't have to be a women, but I like to meet people. Is that so unhealthy? I am confused. 

I talked to a good friend about this. I just don't know how he does it. It's like, when he lives day to day, he is just doing his own thing and he doesn't need anybody else in his life. I don't either, but I get bored! 

Nevermind women for a sec. How do you transition to a state of mind where you are content with being alone every single day to a point where you don't even think about picking up the phone? That just sounds depressing and boring. People seem to bring out the best in me. Why can't I do that myself?

I read and read and read online. A lot of people say being single is a choice...but I am choosing to not want to be single. That's the problem.

Serial monogamist. Maybe.


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## EnjoliWoman

I'm impressed you are self-aware enough to know so much about yourself, even the parts you might not want to (I have them, too!)

What I wrote was based on my impression - you did say you stopped flirting, paying attention, etc. - I just simply used the word "ignore". I'm glad you have learned from the experience. As to teasing, you were being a tease coming on to her knowing you weren't going to follow through - you only did it to get a reaction (which you did) and external affirmation. If a woman did that, I'd give her heck, too. 

I'm happy single but I don't want to be single forever. I don't think the day will come that it just doesn't occur to me, but there's a difference between being restless vs. needy. I WANT someone in my life, I don't NEED someone in my life. I can entertain myself; just some things are more fun with someone. I get that. 

But you hit on something. Other people bring out the best in you. That's big. YOU need to bring out the best in you. It's great that a woman might make you want to try kale or give you encouragement to apply for a promotion but in the end, YOU have to make you the best YOU. Not someone else.


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## turnera

If you don't want to be bored, sign up for a soccer team. Take kickboxing lessons. Join a poker club. Join Toastmasters. Volunteer to help kids learn to read. There are a billion things you could be doing to not be bored or alone. Nearly all of them don't require you being romantically attached to a woman.


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## pragmaster

True. I seem to have an argument and defense for everything lately, but I get the picture. 


Thanks guys.

Soccer sucks btw.


----------



## pragmaster

Ooo I guess I have another question!

How do you go from a state of reaction to a state of responding, ALL the time? 

I seem to be mentally segregated. I only do this when I am talking business or trying not to upset someone in particular.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Often being reactionary is being defensive. Defensive is usually because a nerve has been touched. Sometimes people do it on purpose but other times it's a sign that there is truth in what they say and therefore an opportunity to evaluate our character: why we are reacting that way, if it's true can we grow from realizing that truth, and can we use that as a chance to make things right? 

You simply learn to pause. Once you pause, you have a brief moment to control your thoughts. You can force yourself to pause by learning to repeat the things back - i.e. a woman says "You're always late!" Your reaction might be to say loudly "no, I'm not - not always!" Instead, if you replied with an understanding statement you have "bought" time [a pause for thought]. So by saying "I hear that you are upset because I am often later than I say I will be." Now you have even more time to consider your response because she'll say "yes, and then I'm waiting when I could have... etc, etc ". 

Now your REAL and HONEST response is formulated; "Hm. I never really realized it was such an inconvenience. Instead of rushing and trying to make the time I say I'll be there and end up being late, I will add 15 minutes to the time I would normally state. That way I'll be able to make it by the time I say I'll be there and avoid frustration in the future. Does that sound like a good idea?"

Now you a) avoided being reactionary, b) had a moment of reflection, c) validated the issue/question/topic and d) had enough time to think of a proposed resolution. And all of that results in a calmer, more thoughtful discussion. It's only an example but a good way to buy time to act vs. react is by repeating back an understanding statement because that doesn't require a lot of thought.

It could be that your reply is "I've only been late twice. Once was because I got an important call and the other was because of traffic. I know it's frustrating and I find punctuality important, too, but saying "always" is a bit extreme, don't you think?" But it's still a reply based on verbal action, not reaction.


----------



## pragmaster

I ask because the ex said that about me often. She said I was always defensive when really I thought was just answering what she asked. 

When I started to change my approach she said she felt like I was judging her, when I was just thinking of something to say. She said when I rephrased things she felt like she was being interviewed by a psychologist.

My reaction to your example would have been a simple "sorry". I wouldn't say it wouldn't happen again, because that would have been a lie. I'm the type of guy that is always late. I am always late so I can't argue. Lol. 

I see what you mean. My issue is that I have always done things very fast, impatiently. 

It also doesn't help when you are stoned all the time. Lol.


----------



## turnera

You realize that's not an attractive trait, right? Women typically want partners who are strong, dependable, and quick on their feet so as to be able to protect them, physically and mentally.


----------



## pragmaster

Yeah. That's why I'm trying to change it. Lol. 

I am dependable. I never let people down. I've always been a man of my word. 

I'd like to consider myself a strong willed person. And you know what, mentally I am strong too. Not lately maybe, but generally I am. 

My problem is I am too quick on my feet. I have a bad habit of jumping without looking. I've gotten good at recovery, but yeah. Hence the pot. It really helps me chill out and think about things first. 

Strong? Yeah. I'm fit, but I'm 5'5. I can only get so physically strong.

I thought before I typed that, trying not to be reactionary. But as you can see it still comes off defensive.


----------



## turnera

Yep. You have a hard time believing you are worthy. Which is why you try to prove that worth by having women choose you. And, no offense, but your height probably has something to do with it. I should know, my H is 5'6". I see it every day.


----------



## pragmaster

So what else can I do to help change that perceptiom? I've read No More Mr. Nice Guy over and over and I am seeing a councellor. I'm getting to the root of the issue, which really is a mommy/daddy problem. I'm doing my best to stop seeking approval and not measure my worth. I really feel like it's getting better each day. I practice and test it. I've just learned to not give a hoot. 

I know I am worthy. 

Yeah. Height is a shame. It's too bad natural selection is a real thing. Let fools be with biggots I guess. Then again it's a good thing, because I would definitely take advantage of that. 

All of these negative emotions I feel are solely generated from my interactions with the ex-wife. I do not have this problem with anyone else. 

When a girl rejects my inquiry for her number, I means nothing to me, yet, it's got to be more then that.

What does a person who doesn't seek approval look like to an outsider?


----------



## turnera

Your negative emotions are most likely generated by your parents. Is your counselor working on that with you? There are lots of great books on this stuff, like Emotional Alchemy and The Self Esteem Workbook.

A person who doesn't seek approval is someone who can have a sense of humor at all times (unless it's life threatening). He can hear criticism of himself and say 'Really? You see that in me? Huh, I never realized. I gotta go think about that.' He can have a woman in a bar snub him and laugh about it - 'oh no, that one got away!' He can go up to a group of guys and say ' hey, I heard y'all talking about the game; can you believe soandso dropped that ball?

Stuff like that.

And aside from that, make sure you are expanding your horizons. Doing things you have been afraid to do. Facing fears. Learning that you CAN take on stuff and not suffer and even excel. Whether it's joining Toastmasters or taking a martial arts class or learning to speak Spanish, keep filling your life with accomplishments, so that little voice in you has less and less reason to speak up.


----------



## pragmaster

turnera said:


> Your negative emotions are most likely generated by your parents. Is your counselor working on that with you? There are lots of great books on this stuff, like Emotional Alchemy and The Self Esteem Workbook.
> 
> A person who doesn't seek approval is someone who can have a sense of humor at all times (unless it's life threatening). He can hear criticism of himself and say 'Really? You see that in me? Huh, I never realized. I gotta go think about that.' He can have a woman in a bar snub him and laugh about it - 'oh no, that one got away!' He can go up to a group of guys and say ' hey, I heard y'all talking about the game; can you believe soandso dropped that ball?
> 
> Stuff like that.
> 
> And aside from that, make sure you are expanding your horizons. Doing things you have been afraid to do. Facing fears. Learning that you CAN take on stuff and not suffer and even excel. Whether it's joining Toastmasters or taking a martial arts class or learning to speak Spanish, keep filling your life with accomplishments, so that little voice in you has less and less reason to speak up.


Yeah we are working on it. I'll check those books out though. I keep thinking that the reason for all of my negative emotions is based on a particular event that I can't remember, between 14-16, but I am starting to learn it's really all accumulative. 

I'm like that though. That's the thing. I really don't have validation issues. It's just with this damn woman. Not any others. I have a blast in life, alone, with my friends, in public or wherever. I joke around all the time and I like to think I am very aware. I know I take criticism well and I have even been told that. As for the group of guys, I'm not a sports guy so that would never happen, but I do get your point. Personally I think it's weird when strangers come up to me so I just don't do that, but I would if I had a purpose. Not really one to talk for the sake of talking. I find I have very manipulative tendencies. Covert contracts are second nature and I am trying to undo all of that. 

For sure. I'm actually in TM and I used to do martial arts. Learning some salsa and tango lately. Fun stuff!! 

Thanks again. I can't think of anything else.


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## pragmaster

Is there any way I can delete this thread and start over? 

I want a fresh thread for a new topic within the same category.


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## Cynthia

pragmaster said:


> Is there any way I can delete this thread and start over?
> 
> I want a fresh thread for a new topic within the same category.


It is seldom a good idea to delete a thread. There is no reason to delete this thread.
Simply start a new thread with a new topic.


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