# What a way to find out



## hurtmuch (Jun 28, 2010)

I want to go back to the way it used to be….
I know this is really long but as I read other threads the history usually has to come out anyway. Looking back and based on what W has said this seems to be how I got here.

History: Married 23 years, high school sweethearts, both in early 40’s, no history of infidelity, several kids - older, I work, wife stays home. Weathered many ups and downs over the years but were starting to enjoy some extra time together as the kids get older (16-20).

Nov/Dec 2009 W started getting more sexually playful with me and became more energetic toward life. She was generally happier, little things didn’t bother her so much, our frequency of sex increased steadily (once every week to 4-5 times per week) mostly based on her initiating. We both seemed to be enjoying this – yes I did make sure she was satisfied.

Feb: She asked about trying some new things in the bedroom (light bondage, anal) which I thought was great. Previously she had not liked these when we tried them many years ago. She said she was ready and was willing to try again – for my sake. By the end of Feb we found out that she did not like being on the receiving end of these but immensely enjoyed being the one in control. At this point everything was playful and light and we both enjoyed the benefits.

By April, she was taking this further – one day I was left bound most of the day and used for her satisfaction. She allowed me release (on my own) only after she was exhausted. We talked and I told her this was too much and that I felt as if I was only being used and that I missed the emotional connection we used to get. It was almost as if she didn’t care, though. She did agree to tone it down and not do this as often.

One evening in early May, she was out clothes shopping and I fell asleep in the den. I woke up to her binding me to the chair. She had a new toy and took my rear virginity that night. Again we talked – this was all new and fun to her, although it could never be the other way with me in charge. I tried, but she would cry and get upset over how it was no good for her. She dismissed my feelings. A couple more times after shopping, she would be real aggressive sexually. Enough so, that I started to wonder what was going on when she shopped. Several talks and it was always - nothing, she assured me.

Late May – a couple of her friends are over scrapbooking. When only one is left I overhear part of their conversation. She told her friend what she has been doing to me and how much fun it is. I confronted her the next day reminding her of our agreement that this was to be between us – no one else has to know. Well, she was just trying to give ideas to her friend to spice up her sex life. A couple days later we were enjoying an evening alone watching a movie and drinking wine. Her friend stops over and is almost hysterical. All I got out of her crying was that she tried it with her hubby who wanted nothing to do with it – called her names, etc…They talked in the other room while I finished the bottle and most of another – my wife kept coming in to refill my glass. When she called me in by her I was not thinking or walking straight. We started kissing, etc… I forgot about her friend – thought she must have left. In what seemed like a few moments I found myself bound and over a chair. I heard her say – “there, that’s how its done.” I couldn’t wrap my head around what was going on after I heard her friend say something. It was like she set me up. Anyway – they had their way with me that night. I do admit that I enjoyed it and we continued after I was untied (only that one time – never again).

Early June – she starts talking about having a MMF threesome because we already had a MFF. I tell her no way I am comfortable with that. “How about her and another couple, she asks? You did another woman so I should get to try a different man.” We have a heart to heart – I apologize profusely for my lapse in judgment in continuing with the other woman – even though my W brought her in and let her use me. For two weeks its like she is obsessed with getting me to agree to let her try another man. When asked (a few occasions) if there already is one, she blows up at me – calls me names and how could I ever think she would do that….

Two Friday’s ago she has me bound to the bed again using me for her satisfaction (bondage is about once/week). This time though, she gets dressed and tells me she’ll be back. An hour later she is home and comes in the room – looks a bit disheveled. I ask where she has been and what she has been up to. “You’ll find out in a minute,” she says as she disrobes. (Graphic warning) She kneels over me and stuff starts dripping out – not mine because she did not let me release. She lets it drip on me and then licks it all up telling me how good it is and was. I start asking questions and getting mad so she gags me. She says she thought this would excite me – but it obviously did not. She unties one knot and leaves.

I was so angry I actually didn’t know what I would do when I saw her. She was in the den sobbing softly when I came down – hours later. She starts talking - says I was right, there was another guy – has been for 9 months (late Oct) – at least once, usually twice a week. I ask how could she do this to me? Sounds like kind of a standard story: I didn’t mean for it to happen, it was exciting, he paid attention to me, I can’t stop it – I have feelings for him. Turns out it’s her friend’s (threesome) husband. As she spills her guts to me it comes out that the changes over the last several months were part of a plan to get me and his wife to want to swap regularly. My wife and OM had been plotting for several months. Neither wanted to leave the comfort of their marriages (OM has been unemployed for months). But - they wanted me to suggest it(?).

I have had very little to say to her over the last week. But I did tell her last Wed that it can’t be the way she wants it. I will not share my wife – physically or emotionally – with any other man. It has to stop now. I’m not even sure I want her as my wife right now. She does not seem remorseful – only upset that I don’t want to go along with her “arrangement”. I can’t get the pictures of her with OM out of my head ~70+ times and that apparently doesn’t include those that were “just” oral. Now I know why the sheets were changed so regularly (never used to be!).

I have slept on the couch since and was contemplating moving out – until I read many threads here that say to stay put. She says she won’t leave me, but she won’t give him up right now either. She still initiates love making with me. I brought a movie and a bottle of wine home Fri after work – I wanted us to snuggle and watch a movie together (physical touch and time together are her two big love languages). She brushed me off saying she couldn’t because she knows what it would lead to and I would just be hurt again. WTF? Guess what – she was with OM all afternoon and she didn’t want me to find the "evidence". She started to tell me she was sorry and didn’t mean to hurt me. I couldn’t hear it and went for a long bike ride. Got home well after dark (riding in the dark is stupid and dangerous!) and she was nowhere to be found. I wake up to the smell of coffee and bacon – she’s making me breakfast (? - she has done this like 5 times over the years). Sat eve she pulls out the movie and wine – "I can’t" I tell her until I know she is done with OM. Again, she says she wants both. I walked out of the room not in a frame of mind to talk rationally.

I’m spinning and don’t know what to do or how to think about this. I’m angry, disappointed, want to run away, still madly in love with her, want revenge, hurt, embarrassed, disrespected…

Help! How do I get her back? How do I think coherently about all this? Is there hope?


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## hurtmuch (Jun 28, 2010)

Well – it gets better – worse than a f-in soap opera. Many others have said it – the first disclosure is only the tip of the iceberg. I met the OM’s wife in a park for lunch to tell her what is going on. She does not respond with any sense of shock but only with concern for me. She empathizes with me about how horrible and awful this is. As we talked it took me a while to even realize she kept touching my arm, shoulder, and leg. When she leaned in for a kiss my mind was reeling. I pulled away saying this isn’t right and I can’t. She laughed and said what they did is? Let’s do it to get back at them. I tell her no I won’t, I’m married and start to leave. She gets in my face and tells me being married won’t stop my wife. She goes on to explain how it has really been both her and her husband with my wife – most times, not all. She starts to tell me details I was not ready to hear. I keep telling her no – this can’t be, my W would not do that. But I didn’t think she would cheat either. 

I’m floored and stunned – could this be happening, could it be real? As the OW starts to leave I tell her it will be over – I’m getting my wife back. She turns, laughs, and says – I don’t think so. Ask her what she is doing Fri night. We invited her to a party – she will be with us and others. Before I could even think about how to respond, she left.

All afternoon I think about what to say to W. Mon eve we had a quiet dinner – one of the kids was home. Later when alone I tell her that on Fri eve I would like to take her to dinner and a movie. She tells me she already had plans and thought I knew. No – nothing is on the calendar (I checked). W: Well, I was going to so-an-so’s for dinner and scrapbooking – it will probably be late. She picked the wrong friend because I happened to know they were going to be out of town. When I told her I knew she was invited to a party with OM her face went white. W: It’s not what you think. Me: I know what it is and I know what I think about it. I don’t know if I should have or not, but I told her if she goes, she might as well not ever come home. 

She started crying and told me I don’t know what I’m talking about, how could I say that, I don’t understand, its only scrapbooking, what about the kids, how would it look to our friends… I stopped her, said two things – Stop lying. Who are you? – and left the room. 

Have not seen or heard from her this morning – I’m at work, no idea where she is.
I want my wife, but I don’t. I have hate for her right now. Don’t know who I can trust anymore. She is no respecter of me – why would I even want her? Is it some emotional thing or just fear of being without her? 

I don’t know how to cope with the embarrassment of my W being a f-in sl-t!


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

Hmmm, I must say on my initial reaction I thought to myself "Wow, someone is good at writing fantasy". But honestly that's not fair because I have no way of knowing if this is true or not. I've been through some really strange things in my life that I know that had I not been there I wouldn't believe it either. I will treat this though like it is the truth hurtmuch and go from there.

I am really only responding because I've noticed you have over a 100 views, but no one has posted. I'm assuming most are like me and have no idea where to even START! I guess the only thing I can do is tell you what I "think" I would do in this situation.

My wife has S&M leanings herself, although she is the Beta and I serve the Alpha role for her. With that mindset, it's generally a deeply rooted psychosis that is fairly entrenched into their personality. Trying to break someone with those leanings requires psychotherapy, much more then anyone on these boards could provide. I knew of those leanings before marriage though so I had the ability to back out if I had wanted to. While for me I could live without the S&M aspect, I've adjusted to the fact that for her it's deeply entrenched and not something she's ever been willing to give up. I am willing to do that for her because I am okay with it. From just the S&M aspect you have to ask yourself if your willing to be a partial beta for your wife in bed. I know with my own personality I would never be able to bend to be a Beta. But, some people can do it. You just have to ask yourself is that aspect okay with you?

Let me ask you a few questions. Do you know if your wife had any trauma in her childhood? Rape, inappropriate touching, etc? Repressed issues from childhood can sometimes take years to surface in a person. Also, has your wife had any medical exams recently? I know sometimes a stroke can cause personality shifts like your seeing with your wife.


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

It all started so innocently. Looked like positive advances in the relationship. However any changes in a long term relationship should be warning signs. How would you know? Why would you ask? It seemed like things were going swimmingly.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

Wow. Okay, dump her. Now. She's been abusive, hasn't respected your boundaries and is continuing to live her life the way she wants to, which is to cheat on you and do God knows what with God knows who.

The only way couples recover from infidelity is if they BOTH want it. I've worked with quite a few couples and have seen great things happen, but it's because they were both willing to do their own part. She wants to have her cake and eat it too, in a very unattractive way. She has shown no willingness to honor your wishes or recover from this deep betrayal. 

Get yourself checked for STDs and move on. I know after all these years together that's the last thing you want to do, but it may be the only thing that will wake her up. 

If it doesn't, then at least you'll be free to find someone that will live your life with you without trying to force her cheating ways onto you - months after the fact.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

HappyHer said:


> Get yourself checked for STDs and move on.


:iagree:


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## MrRomantic (Jun 14, 2010)

I will be the one to say it this time, as it was said to me, and will be said to many others, this pain will pass. You don't think it will and cannot possibly imagine feeling normal again, but give it time. 

I am blown away by your story, I cannot imagine. Given the picture I see, I don't think she will ever return to "normal." I'm not sure I could even look at my wife again after all of that...

Just take some time for yourself. Do things that you want to do and find your own peace. Things will get better, hopefully your wife will be at your side when the dust settles, if that is what you want.


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## hurtmuch (Jun 28, 2010)

Crypsys - I understand your initial reaction but unfortunately it is real.

Putting this in writing has helped me make more clear decisions.

Last night I tried to talk with her about how this can’t continue and that it is wrong. She told me how exciting it is and she does not want to give it up – feels too good. Told me she wants me to join her in this. It seems very likely it is more than just this one couple – although I could not bring myself to ask directly. She does not see that she is being used. I told her I don’t find it exciting in the least and that it is immoral and wrong and I need her to stop. Talk ended quickly. She left. I don’t know where she went. She came in about 2AM drunk and a mess. She would not tell me anything – where, who, what. From how she looked I can only imagine what she did. Made me cry seeing her like that.

Boys have seen enough to know what is going on. At least they are learning lessons about what not to want in a wife.

STD’s – wow – I never thought of that. Guess I’m kind of naïve.
Medical issues with W? Don't think so - but who really knows. She doesn't think there is anything wrong so why would she go and what would she get tested for?
Childhood issues - nothing out of the ordinary that I am aware of.

This morning I called one of her good friends. Friend told me she already knew (almost from the beinning) and was sorry for me. She hinted about others knowing. Sorry for not telling me right away. Says W no longer really listens to her.

I don’t think I can stand to see her. How do I get her out of the house? (she has no intention of leaving)

I set up a seperate bank accounts and transferred almost all of the savings and checking – is that OK or will I get in trouble for that? I do plan to pay the regular bills. I have seen no unusual credit card bills so I plan to just lower limits - significantly - to limit possible exposure.

MrR - doing things for myself. I bike ride (physical exertion is a great stress reliever - but it only lasts so long) and golf. Making plans for this weekend to do that - maybe I'll draw her face on the golf ball. Mtg with pastor tonight.

This sucks because I likely end up losing half of what I have built up. Probably would have been enough for us together, but it won't go as far separately.

Angry and ready to act rashly - very out of character for me. still can't get my mind around this.
thanks for letting me vent.


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## HappyHer (Nov 12, 2009)

It sounds as if it's time to see an attorney, and you should probably do that quickly. Do your best to relax and stay calm so you don't do anything you may regret later.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

You did absolutely the right thing. Cut her off completely financially. No credit cards no nothing. She need to feel how her life is going to be now that she made (or thinks she made) her decision. You need to out her to friends and family and discontinue any discussions with her except the kids and finances. And if your children are old enough, tell them. See a lawyer and file. THEN see how she responds. She said it was her goal to keep you and the sex activities. Show her that she doesn't get you. She needs to consider life in a one bedroom apartment and working at McDonalds.


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

I don't even know what to say. As with affairs, this has become an addiction. It is a high she refuses to give up. I have known drug users who gave up drugs because of the shame. Shame does not work here as she finds nothing disagreeable. When the fog clears, she will find that people have lost respect for her. What of the kids? I would think it is best to consult an attorney and try to get her out of the house and away from your kids.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

She's been doing what she wants for almost a year, you need to be a man and put an end to things. Your wife had the audacity to drip another man's semen all over you and you're still interested in date nights? Guy... grow a set, hire an attorney and move on with your life.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you called her parents and her siblings and her cousins, aunts, uncles, pastor, and told them what she is doing? You had better do it NOW, before SHE calls them and tells them you were beating her or something. Believe me, she WILL. They believe the first person who tells their side of the story.

I agree, get legalled up and make sure the kids stay with YOU! Who knows how many, or which, guys will want to start including the kids soon. And she'll be so addicted that she'll allow it.


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## hurtmuch (Jun 28, 2010)

Thanks for the thoughts.

Meeting with lawyer later today. Don't know how long it will take but filing papers may be my last chance at waking her up. If she gets half of savings and equity in house she will be set for many years - no working at McD's. ~$250k can last a long time if used wisely.

Pastor did not have much advice but has been trying to contact her. Her parents seem to be in denial - she could never do that. They tried to talk me out of proceeding to file - give her time, its just a phase.... Her sister called me back after talking with W - said it was like talking to someone she doesn't know. She was open and not ashamed of what she is doing. When W's sister told W that I was talking to lawyer W was shocked and didn't believe I would do it (guess I do have to grow a pair...). W's sister did say she told W this was wrong and she needed to stop or would lose everything of importance.

Found out some more from W's sister - its not just one couple. She confirmed there is a group of couples (don't know how many). They regularly (several times/week) get together "just" for sex. No emotional comittments are supposed to happen. Not always everyone, sometimes just the H or W of a couple shows up. W did not deny any of this but did not give much more info - unless I wanted to join them. She said they are all good with this arrangement and really enjoy it. I told her - that's fine for them, but I am not OK with it for me or my wife.

Tell friends? I have talked with some. For all I know they are part of this group - like the scrapbooking friend. I will continue telling others today and over the weekend.

She told me last night she wants to have a July 4th gathering at our house. I told her no - her friends are not welcome in my home until I can know they are not part of her orgie group. I could see her plotting for this party to just get a bit out of hand and have this sh-t happen right in my face - no way.

W said she would watch a movie with me Fri but will probably go out for a bit after. I told her I won't accept that - either me or them. I reminded her that if she goes, she should not even bother coming home. Tonight will be telling. I have a friend lined up to follow her and take pictures. He's willing to continue the watch until all cars are gone from wherever this will be. Should know much more about how many and who after that.

So - she got into a group that likes to have orgies - f-in sl-t.
This is unreal - I'm numb to any feelings. I am seeing she is no longer the woman I fell in love with. The more I find out, the more repulsed I am. Even if she wants our life back I'm not sure I could do it. I In a matter of weeks my life as I knew it is over....


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just remember that such a situation could be so intoxicating to her that it's truly an addiction. Think about being raised to be respectable, respectful, polite, demure...and then suddenly another adult tells you that that was all a sham, that there ARE people out there who say F it! Just go out and be wild and crazy like you've always wondered about. It can be quite an intoxicating feeling to suddenly be in a group of people who let you remove all your inhibitions. Think Jim Jones and the Kool-Aid. Or midlife crisis.

So, in one tiny corner, I can still see your wife in there. But I gotta tell you it gives me the creeps. Feels more like Stepford Wives or Children of the Corn gone awry than Jim Jones.


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## hurtmuch (Jun 28, 2010)

yeah - she probably is addicted - so much that she can't see anything else that matters. She talks of feeling excited and exhilarated and gets such a look in her eyes - like crazed, demonic. At times I fear for her, that she is being used by them. 
Maybe the papers will help break through the fog - who knows. I don't think they will - she has no shame over this right now and does not have an issue with it being in my face. She knows it hurts me, but can't seem to muster any feelings.
So, if facing divorce turns her around I know I can never look at her the same. I would be happy she is saved from this addiction but I don't know that I could be with her again.

My hat is off to others who can stay together after affairs. I don't know how you do it. Too many thoughts and pictures to have to suppress - and they are there with a vengence when I see her. I can't imagine that getting much better.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, yours is a little different, you know. Most affairees never go over the deep end and join a cult like she has.


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## amanda1959 (Mar 29, 2010)

First off I am so sorry for your painful story. Once more it is proof that woman and men can hurt eachother equally. I have had my heart torn out of my chest recently as well. Long thread about my husbands bi-sexual adventures etc.
Actually you have been tramatized and will experience many many emotions ranging from anger, confusion, depression to re-living the trama ( because your mind can't grasp the scenes in your head). You will probably go over and over this horrible story in your head for months. 
1)She has changed on you that is clear
2)your children are to be your number one prioirity
3)get a therapist now!

I can't say I have any answers because I am still dealing with the damge my husband has caused, but don't do anything rash. Be patient with yourself and take things slow. Don't have a EA yourself because it just makes it all worse. Determine what she wants and if she wants the marriage get a therapist asap.
She has become a swinger without you and that is what my husband did to me. She stepped out of the marriage for her own satisfaction and then treated you in a VERY humiliating way. She does have some issues. She is not "making love" to you. S and M is not about love it is a bout POWER. She has power issues and this usually stems from a feeling of LACK OF POWER. A therapist has to dig in that department. Why does she need this power? Why is she feeling so powerless?
Anyway I am heading off to holiday in Central America to reflect on what is happening in my life. I will hope to heal my heart a little and get some clarity as to my confusion and what allows me to have sex with my husband even though I don't trust him.
These events are SO painful I am sorry for your pain...
All this sex and no one is making love anymore it makes me so sad...


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## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

hurtmuch-

I sincerely hope that she makes a quick, and a good, choice in this. I'm pleased to see that you're taking appropriate steps, and quickly. Consider what you'll do if she does choose to abandon the other life and embrace your marriage - what if she does stay home tonight and give her attention to you alone? Will you be able to move forward and help her? This I feel is the tough question - are you too hurt to forgive, or will you be able to forgive and rebuild? From my short time here reading others' stories, a pretty good percentage of those hurt in affairs are willing to rebuild if their spouse ends things fully and recommits to the marriage - myself included - but each situation is different, and you must make that choice for yourself. But this is important: have an answer ready if it comes up, even if it's just a maybe. 

Most people do seem to go through a period in which they can't imagine staying with their spouse after the betrayal of an affair. I think for many people that view changes over time. No, the relationship is not the same as before, but that's the point. Something in the old relationship didn't work for one or both of you; building a new, better relationship, if possible, is a new shared goal. With a worthwhile payoff.


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## amanda1959 (Mar 29, 2010)

Yes I agree that a hurt spouse can take alot but the relationship will be forever changed. When the trust is gone the hurt spouse is left to deal with the doubt and anxiety but the real work should be done by the spouse that betrayed out of self absorbed motives. It is hard work but it takes TWO to want it. The problem is do you want it? In my situation I go back and forth from thinking it will work out to doubting I love the man any more. It's almost like a crap shoot. It is a time for very deep personal reflection as to what YOU want, but can you trust in the other person again?
Some part of you definitely dies and you rack your brains as to why it has happened. But as they say all things happen for a reason. You could divorce and start over but all relationships have issues whos to say the next one would be better. To me it is always a question of the lessor of three evils. Remaining in a relationship with lose of trust or believing that your next relationship would be any better (statisticly they aren't) or living alone.
Maybe we all divorce to fast...there is no perfect marriage (not that I know of)
As you can see I am in a highly confused state myself but typing these thoughts helps somewhat so thanks for listening.
My first reaction was to file for divorce but now I am opting for a year of seperation first. I have taken a job abroad and it will give me space to reflect. Nothing legal ...just time apart

Do you think this is a possibility for you? Time apart?


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