# Latest on infidelity research



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Here is another interesting article on the biology of cheating:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/24/o...ule=Recommendation&src=rechp&WT.nav=RecEngine


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I always knew those montane voles were dirty little rats.

Very interesting article.

Do we constitute genes and hormones as biological?

Serious question for our professorial crew.

I'll never understand the folks that want to box us off as somehow completely different than the other organisms with whom we share a preponderance of our DNA and neurochemicals.

We aren't that different from Bonobos. We just dress better and know more tricks.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Well I think it is a load of road apples. I've never even had the urge to cheat. If cheating was genetic in us, the rate at which people cheat should be in the 90% range. There would probably only be about 2% of the earth that wouldn't cheat.

Not an evolutionary thinker here BTW. The math has never been right for the poorly conceived theory.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Hormones are definitely biological. Everything about us is biological, isn't it? Doesn't it by definition have to be?

I think what the researcher is basically saying is that certain biochemical realities in an individual can correlate with infidelity and that individuals can be genetically predisposed to have those biochemical realities.

Anyway, Deejo, my H loves the bonobos - as I understand it, they are matriarchal, peaceful, and have constant, constant sex...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

The article makes sense. Genetics has increasingly been shown to have a greater effect on our nature and actions than previously thought, and the correlations presented match with everything else I've read. And it's simple to see that people have different genetic dispositions and different gene expressions occur due to a variety of factors from prenatal to environmental.

So, it's far from surprising that there are people who have a more difficult time following social conventions such as monogamy, and others for whom it's easier.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

People are born with personality characteristics. 

"Stubbornness runs in our family," say some some and it literally may true.

Shyness, modesty, aggression, etc. are not all learned traits.

Cheating is strategy built into humans and that is one reason we are so fascinated by documentaries about the way animals pair, mate and foster young. My cheater uncles shifted their resources. My mother's twin brother left almost everything to his youngest, the "love" child that cost him his marriage. The OW who became his wife succeeded in a biological competition.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

I think they are drawing too much from the study. What if the genes they are seeing the significant association with account for a higher libido? Of course horny people have more PA's than the non-horney. I guess the control group design might have helped mitigate that but they don't mention it. And even then it seems to suggest a receptiveness to multiple partners, even a desire, which would only explain polygamy or open relationships and no the act of devising and betraying someone you supposedly care for.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

alte Dame said:


> Hormones are definitely biological. Everything about us is biological, isn't it? Doesn't it by definition have to be?
> 
> I think what the researcher is basically saying is that certain biochemical realities in an individual can correlate with infidelity and that individuals can be genetically predisposed to have those biochemical realities.
> 
> Anyway, Deejo, my H loves the bonobos - as I understand it, they are matriarchal, peaceful, and have constant, constant sex...


I'm just covering my butt ...

I have no issue with viewing our best selves idealistically. Mindful, aware, transcendent.

I have no delusions that we are often subject to behavior that is far from our ideals. Selfish, deceitful, covetous.

I found the vasopressin and oxytocin discussions interesting. 

I know that I have read previously that often infidelity is 'built in' to also assure genetic diversity in static populations.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> I think what the researcher is basically saying is that certain biochemical realities in an individual can correlate with infidelity and that individuals can be genetically predisposed to have those biochemical realities.


Could the same argument be made for any sexual behavior, including crimes of a sexual nature or even other crimes such a murder and thief? Can we conclude, like in infidelity in general, "biochemical realities" people may be predisposed to spousal abuse, married/unmarried teachers that go after students, or bosses going after subordinates, lurks in the genes?
It appears that once proof that "biology" explains certain unsavory behavior, you cannot simply exclude other behaviors that we find especially intolerable.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Well I think it is a load of road apples. I've never even had the urge to cheat. If cheating was genetic in us, the rate at which people cheat should be in the 90% range. There would probably only be about 2% of the earth that wouldn't cheat.
> 
> Not an evolutionary thinker here BTW. The math has never been right for the poorly conceived theory.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Irony. Randomly throwing out an arbitrary rate at which people "should be cheating" if there is a genetic link, while complaining about the math that study authors say shows "Forty percent of the variation in promiscuous behavior in women could be attributed to genes." What makes your "math" right and their math wrong?

Any genetic trait will only propagate widely if it provides a strong advantage. That cheating rates aren't higher would be evidence that cheating doesn't provide a dominant advantage over stable long term pair bonding in humans. Both traits see success.

Further, "cheating" is only a human concept. In nature, there's only promiscuity. The tendency to mate with many, or to settle with only one. Animals don't make conscious deals with commitment.

So unless you settled with the first woman you slept with, I'm not sure how well you get by either. Surely you've broken up with someone you've slept with in order to pursue other mates. That's the base behavior - cheating is just human concept thrown on top. Biology may or may not align with your conscious "commitment". A human can never cheat and still be promiscuous.

We don't tend to choose a mate and stick with them. We usually mate with at least a couple, then stick with one... or not.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Hormones, and all that is all fine. But most people do not cheat because they are horny. They cheat becuase they are looking for attention, affection, because their relationship is broken. Nature and nurture. 
Not making excuses just offering alternate explanation


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Could the same argument be made for any sexual behavior, including crimes of a sexual nature or even other crimes such a murder and thief? Can we conclude, like in infidelity in general, "biochemical realities" people may be predisposed to spousal abuse, married/unmarried teachers that go after students, or bosses going after subordinates, lurks in the genes?
> It appears that once proof that "biology" explains certain unsavory behavior, you cannot simply exclude other behaviors that we find especially intolerable.


There is already a suspected genetic link for anti-social behavior, and criminals tend to show significant anti-social traits. I wouldn't be surprised of any genetic links found to sexual crimes, but from what I've read, sexual crime (rape, pedophilia etc) has been shown to lean most strongly on "nurture" (child abuse and the like).

That doesn't mean everyone with anti-social traits will be a criminal, but it might indicate a predisposition or decreased unwillingness to break social rules and law. Anti-socials have diminished capacity for remorse, disregard for others and poor behavior controls.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

WandaJ said:


> Hormones, and all that is all fine. But most people do not cheat because they are horny. They cheat becuase they are looking for attention, affection, because their relationship is broken. Nature and nurture.
> Not making excuses just offering alternate explanation


I agree, but some people will stay and deal with it, others end the relationship, and others cheat. This purports to explain at least some of that difference, and as far as it is concerned, the last two are really the same thing - promiscuity. Tendency to seek another mate.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Irony. Randomly throwing out an arbitrary rate at which people "should be cheating" if there is a genetic link, while complaining about the math that study authors say shows "Forty percent of the variation in promiscuous behavior in women could be attributed to genes." What makes your "math" right and their math wrong?
> 
> Any genetic trait will only propagate widely if it provides a strong advantage. That cheating rates aren't higher would be evidence that cheating doesn't provide a dominant advantage over stable long term pair bonding in humans. Both traits see success.
> 
> ...


I was actually saying that the theory of evolution has no math behind it.

Anyway, having sex can be said to be a predisposition as most people have it. There is a lot of proof to back that. Sex is still a choice but almost no one goes their whole life without.

Most people don't cheat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Melvynman (Mar 19, 2014)

This article is a BUNCH of CARP! 

The "General Social Survey" he is quoting is a survey conduced in person! I doubt affairs numbers are going to be actuate with a in person survey. We all know cheaters never lie! 

He compares human sexual behavior to the Prairie Vole but leaves out this important part! A quick look up in Wikipedia and I found this,
"However, they are not sexually faithful, and though pair-bonded females usually show aggression toward unfamiliar males, both sexes will occasionally mate with other voles if the opportunity arises." 

Not mention humans can have sex for pure pleasure and Prairie Vole do not! 

The only thing missing is the drug he want to prescribe to cure cheaters!


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Seems that the more reasons you can develop explaining infidelity, the less you have to face the reality that maybe your WS has just lost interest in you. Not only does the cheater want to put blame on outside forces, the betrayed spouse gladly grasp for an out.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

WandaJ said:


> Hormones, and all that is all fine. But most people do not cheat because they are horny. They cheat becuase they are looking for attention, affection, because their relationship is broken. Nature and nurture.
> Not making excuses just offering alternate explanation


Then again there are spouses in sexless marriages who instead of knowing better and divorcing their LD spouses, continue in their marriages until one day they meet another HD person in a sexless marriage. Soon they are meeting in hotels/motels just to satisfy their sexual appetite. 

I'm in no way, shape or form justifying this type of affair but a sex starved marriage is a marriage in peril and a breeding ground for affairs.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

morituri said:


> Then again there are spouses in sexless marriages who instead of knowing better and divorcing their LD spouses, continue in their marriages until one day they meet another HD person in a sexless marriage. Soon they are meeting in hotels/motels just to satisfy their sexual appetite.
> 
> I'm in no way, shape or form justifying this type of affair but a sex starved marriage is a marriage in peril and a breeding ground for affairs.


Yep, easy to see how it is going. Now add to the mix all the unhappy marriages who are stuck together due to financial reasons only.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

WandaJ said:


> Hormones, and all that is all fine. But most people do not cheat because they are horny. They cheat becuase they are looking for attention, affection, because their relationship is broken. Nature and nurture.
> Not making excuses just offering alternate explanation


My point is that everyone in their conscious mind can acknowledge that infidelity is 'bad'.

But as you indicate, if something else is missing, valid or not ... and another individual seems to address that gap, then hormones take care of the rest ... and the conscious or rational mind simply does what it does; it rationalizes and tries to legitimize the decision.

We already know full well that the brain chemical c0cktail that takes place when someone is in either a passionate, legitimate relationship, or a passionate illegitimate one is virtually the same profile that manifests with any addiction.

I'm not saying we don't have control.

I am saying that once the stage is set, it's easy to convince ourselves that we don't.


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