# Open Marriage......sorta



## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

My wife and I have been married for 16yrs together 20. We have grown and matured together. A pretty good marriage overall.

My wife is Bi and we have engaged lightly in the swinging community. Its been mostly fun for us.

Recently the wife got drunk and hooked up with a neighbor (female). After that we had a long discussion of what was appropriate and what the rules were. No hook ups without discussing and getting permission first.

3 months later she is in a full blow affair with her Tennis coach. Emotionally and physically. I find out, she denies and lies, eventually cops to the whole deal. OM is in love and she has real feelings for the OM.

During this time we have been connecting in a big way sexually, so I am totally confused.

She says its over with the OM and she will do anything to stay with me, counseling etc.

I am not sure I want to be with someone who has tons of freedom and cannot respect me. I know longer trust her in any way.

Love some feedback here on next course of action


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

schmuck said:


> *Recently* the wife got drunk and hooked up with a neighbor (female). After that we had a long discussion of what was appropriate and what the rules were. No hook ups without discussing and getting permission first.
> 
> *3 months later* she is in a full blow affair with her Tennis coach. Emotionally and physically. I find out, she denies and lies, eventually cops to the whole deal. OM is in love and she has real feelings for the OM.


is this a typo. 

well my friend, your marriiage sure is in trouble as you r having abnormal stuff in it. swinging and sex party, orgy is the family of affair. get rid of this even if you feel that you have set commitment for this lifestyle.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

That doesn't sound like an open marriage, of any sort, to me. It sounds like a wife who cheats on her husband, even though he seems to give her tons of freedom. 

My boyfriend and I would never bring someone else into our relationship. We don't share well with others. We love each other very much, and would just be too jealous even thinking of each other with someone else. So I can't really give you any real advice on how to handle that aspect. 

I can say that since you two discussed rules and how it was going to be handled, it makes it even more clear that she cheated. If you two had never discussed rules, I would say that the external partners and playing left confusion about what was ok and what was not, and you ended up here. But rules were discussed. And just like the child who goes outside after specifically being told they can't, she broke the rules. 

Now you have to decide if you can live with this. My personal opinion: If you want to stay, there should be counseling, and all outside playing should stop. If at some later date down the road, you both feel outside playing could work with no cheating and you wanted to try it again, you could discuss it then, but for now, it all needs to stop. The cheating is going to give you some trust issues right now, and I think continuing to bring in outside people, even with you there and able to see what happens, is only going to exacerbate that. 

I do think that *some* marriages can come through infidelity and be stronger. It takes work from both partners, and time, and the willingness not only to forgive by the betrayed partner, but to prove they should be forgiven by the cheating partner.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

She is a serial cheater. You opened Pandora's box. I would separate finances and go to counseling. Try to find out if the marriage can be salvaged. Out her to family and friends. Good luck.


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## misspuppy (Sep 19, 2010)

so from what i understand you dabbled in the swinging lifestyle.. how long did you discuss this with each other? did you warm up to the idea and do dry runs or just jump right in and deal with it as it comes? 

From what i understand with swinging is that there are alot of ground rules that need to be set and TRUST is a huge thing.. I am thinking about doing the swinging thing right now, and have read up on alot of it so far. From what i have read there is mutual respect for TRUE swingers and BOTH parties are to respect one anothers boundaries. 

Now why would you say you would not want to be with someone with so much freedom? was doing the swinging thing a mutual choice or one sided?The reason i ask this is because in the swinging lifestyle BOTH people need to feel safe secure and get full enjoyment from it. If this was all one sided, then of course it was not a good idea to start swinging in the first place.

I really think that counseling will def help in this case, and alot of talking and regrouping seems needed as well. When Swinging is done right, there is no 'cheating' 'lying' ect, it is for sexual pleasure for both parties. 


good luck in whatever you choose to do.


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## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

no Typo she is Bi, so first was with a lady and just a physical deal. No attachments, really not a big deal in my book. only issue was, it was on her own instead of with us together. 

2nd Affair is the deal breaker. Trust and communication is incredibly important to me and a open lifestyle. She and I are all torn up. 

Update: she told OM that its over and that she loves me etc. She wants us to go to counseling and agrees that she has a lot to work on. 

I am in the protect myself mode and want to make sure that i do not suffer further. I cry all the time for no reason and hurt like a son of a gun. My kids know nothing and they are my sunshine at the moment.

wife is pushing hard for us to work it out, etc. I am on the fence as to what to do next. Is she wired to change? Can she give me the unconditional love that i need, etc. She also wants to stay in the house. I am the breadwinner, and her life as far as comforts are pretty damn good. A friend of ours calls it "living the dream", for a wife.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Don't ever stay with someone who doesn't respect you.

Don't ever allow another person to do anything they want to as long as they come home to you at some point.

The whole point of a marriage is an exclusive bond. Bringing in others destroys that bond.

Be it for "sport" or cheating, it is extremely difficult to restore that bond once broken. 

I really do not see how after swinging and multiple infidelities just how that bond can be restored.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I have the kids and the 20 yr history (19 married) so I worked it out b/c my W made the commitment #1, #2 she took her freedom away. She no longer goes out with out me and she gives me full disclosure of her emails and texting. beside work she is with me, showing me she wants to love only me.
I confronted her 2/12/10 about the 13 yrs of cheating and simply told her we needed a change in our marriage, so thats where we are at right now. I could have left, but I figured I would end up the sameway (the marriage) so why not have this marriage with new behaviors, instead of a different marriage with the same behaviors.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

This is always one of the biggest problems with open marriages. One or both partners falling for another person. Yes, sex is sex but we're all human and eventually sex can lead to an emotional tie.

Only a few select people are actually able to put emotions aside and think of it as only sex, hence the small proportion of swingers that don't ruin their marriages/relationships.

It's always a big gamble when you go that route, my wife and I looked into that but in the end decided it just wasn't for us and we would just leave it as fantasy only.

From the sounds of it, swinging lifestyle might not suit the both of you, especially if she breaks the rules. Once a rule is broken, all trust is gone and it only ends badly.


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## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

This person who she had the affair with was not in the Lifestyle and knows nothing about it. This was a plain old emotional that led to a physical affair. 

We go see a psychotherapist tomorrow. Still not sure that i want to be with her 3years down the road. I mean WTF do you ever trust again?


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## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

Went to counseling. All we did is give her our history. By the time we got to the A, time was up. Had lunch and talked. She says the A happened due to attention. It was new and fun etc. Later that night we talked some more and I came to the conclusion that she has issues that I cannot deal with. So unless some changes happen on her part its over. She is going to counseling on her own as well, so the effort is there. I think I have to stay strong or I am going to get used again. How do you not comfort the other during this time?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I would have to agree with you. "It was new and fun"? She must get a real laugh out of your pain. Obviously your feelings are different then hers. I would personally tell her that she is now going to experience how "not fun" the consequences are going to be. As I suggested b4. Separate finances, cut her off, and file. Find someone who can be true. And no more swinging.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Wow! You go to therepy in hopes of repairing the marraige and then you comes back with not wanting to deal with her. Great therepest. 
My take is, after 16 years of a "pretty good marraige" why not give it one more year, or some time frame you both agree on, and see if she can change, if things get better, awsome, if they do not change, well then you can walk away knowing you tried.
One more thing, the cheating was the end result of a troubled marraige, so you may both need to change if you want to work this thing out.


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## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

the guy said:


> Wow! You go to therepy in hopes of repairing the marraige and then you comes back with not wanting to deal with her. Great therepest.
> My take is, after 16 years of a "pretty good marraige" why not give it one more year, or some time frame you both agree on, and see if she can change, if things get better, awsome, if they do not change, well then you can walk away knowing you tried.
> One more thing, the cheating was the end result of a troubled marraige, so you may both need to change if you want to work this thing out.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

Thanks for the support GUY. I think I am going to let it play out. We go to another psychiatrist today. She also going to go on her own Friday. We continue to chat nightly and this seems to help put it on the table. Will post after today's session.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

Went to a different Psyche today liked this one much better. Asked questions and got some clarification. I was definitely more suspect of the wife's answers. Wondering if I will believe anything she says going forward. Does time help this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

There is nothing to prevent your wife from either not being forthcoming, or flat-out lying in therapy.

Watched my ex do it. It's up to you to *calmly* call it out or challenge it, or keep quiet and recognize the lie for what it is - your spouse has no intention of taking responsibility and actively trying to make things better. She is more invested in obfuscation than resolution.


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## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

Update. She has also taken the initiative to get a counselor on her own. We will continue to go to the MC together and she will go to to the other for as long as she needs. We have talked every night and really layer out our positions. She is truely remorseful and wants to change. Well after one of our talks, I let her hug me and just cry. After 10 minutes of hugging and crying it led to sex. I guess as a relief. We talked some more later and both want us to continue as a couple. I told her that it was still a wait and see thing for me, but I had some hope. Feeling better, but want to maintain my position of strength.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

She cheated on you, so of course you are going to have trouble believing whatever she says. What you have to do now is learn to trust your gut. When she says something to you, you have to think and decide if it sounds truthful or not, if she would have any reason to lie about it, and whether it's something that, if she's lying, would cause serious problems (meaning, if you ask what she got you for Christmas, and she says nothing, is that a lie that could hurt your relationship? Of course not. But if you ask where she was today, and she lies, would that hurt your relationship? Sure it would.). You have to determine when to call her out on things and when to let them go. 

Time will help with learning to trust again, but only if you both take steps to make that trust happen. She has to take steps to prove to you that she can be trusted, and you have to acknowledge that she's doing so and begin trusting even when it's hard. 

In large part, things are going to be strained and different for a while. But at the same time, if you don't both work toward a sense of normalcy and pretend things are ok sometimes, you may never get back to a solid marriage. I'm not saying pretend nothing happened. But while you're going to, and should, spend a lot of time talking about your marriage and what went wrong and the cheating and so on, you also need to have moments where none of that comes up and you act like things are ok: going to a movie together, shopping, lying in bed on a weekend and just hanging out together.


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

*My wife is Bi and we have engaged lightly in the swinging community. Its been mostly fun for us.*

So will you two eventually go back to swinging or has this shown you why that lifestyle always leads to disaster?


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## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

The swinging had nothing to do with this affair. Those that have never participated cannot understand. The swinging always led us closer together. The excitement of strange is fun, not a relationship ruiner like an affair. I don't need to explain to those involved in the lifestyle. 

Right now we are working on the marriage and she is working on herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

The swinging had nothing to do with this affair. Those that have never participated cannot understand. The swinging always led us closer together. The excitement of strange is fun, not a relationship ruiner like an affair. I don't need to explain to those involved in the lifestyle. 

Right now we are working on the marriage and she is working on herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

schmuck said:


> The swinging had nothing to do with this affair. Those that have never participated cannot understand. The swinging always led us closer together. The excitement of strange is fun, not a relationship ruiner like an affair. I don't need to explain to those involved in the lifestyle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As long as you believe nonexclusive sexual activities have no effect on other nonexclusive sexual activities you will continue to have problems in your marriage related to nonexclusive sexual activities.

You might want to address this belief with your marriage counselor.


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## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

Michzz that's just it. Swinging is done together. Nothing exclusive about it. Not the same interaction as a relationship that is exclusive. Emotional bonds are way more powerful in my estimation. 

That being said, I am currently not in any state to do anything with anyone. We have a long way to go to figure out if there is even a us. We are in couples counseling and she is seeing someone on her own. If nothing else her eyes have been opened wide.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

schmuck said:


> Michzz that's just it. Swinging is done together. Nothing exclusive about it. Not the same interaction as a relationship that is exclusive. Emotional bonds are way more powerful in my estimation.


This is why I think you are confused. Just because you and she do this activity with each other does not make it exclusive.

The both of you are allowing others to interact with you sexually.

This is what I mean by nonexclusive.

Opening that door is what I am pointing out. I'm not making a semantic argument.

Agreed to, not agreed to, neutral about it, mad about it, love it, etc.

Doesn't matter.

The doing of it is what causes the problem between the two of you.


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## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

Totally off on your assessment, but thanks anyway. 

She has some issues that only she can work out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

Things have been going well for the most part. We talk and try to get out in the open what all the issues are. I seem to have a hard time remembering examples of when she has not spoken the truth to me. She also says that its only about sexual thing that she has not been forthcoming. 
Went to the MC today and left totally unsatisfied. All we talked about was how we were feeling physically. I mean no **** we feel terrible, I have lost 15lbs and am hitting the gym hard. 
Also found out that the NC talk had lots of hugging and kissing. She says that was as far as it went, but what to believe. That is the question. She seems incredibly remorseful, but we have had sex 3 times in the last few days. Its great, but I am a little detatched. Anyone else going thru R?????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## schmuck (Oct 9, 2010)

Update: we have been talking and reading a lot of stuff on marriage and infidelity. She has apologized and written me a letter telling me how sorry she is and wants to be with me and will do whatever it takes. I have hope, but a healthy dose of caution. Has anyone had this type of reaction from the wayward spouse? Did they slip up again? Or did the two of you work it out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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