# Am I a nag or does he not respect me?



## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

Am I a nag/control freak or does he have zero respect for me?

I posted a while back about my forgetful and thoughtless husband. He's got an "engineering" brain and tends to have a lot of "quirks". He can hyperfocus on things he's interested in, but everything else is a huge chore, so he doesn't have a lot of responsibility in our home outside of his job. It may be asperger's, it may not be... I'm just not sure.

Ladies... do you feel like your husband is a reflection on you and if you see a disgusting man in public, wouldn't you look at his wife and say to yourself "what is she doing wrong?" or "why did she pick him, what is wrong with her?"

My point here is not what others think about me... it's that... after you get married, there IS more responsibility placed on the spouse to pick up the slack and if said slack isn't taken care of. Somehow, this slack always falls in my lap. Or is this all in my head?!?

Some examples of issues that I'm currently facing:

1. He's started a new expensive hobby. We can't afford this hobby. He is hiding what he spends on it and I've almost bounced a few checks. Not only is it consuming money, it's consuming all of his time. The 3 or 4 chores he's responsible for now fall in my lap on top of everything else. I bring it up and he makes excuses. This hobby required us to get liability insurance. He ARGUED with me about getting the insurance, but I insisted, and he's mad about this. To me, it seems like common (adult) sense.

2. He refuses to get his car looked at. It needs an oil change, tires and brakes. It's not safe. I personally went out and got his last several oil changes and washed his car myself because I didn't want to pay for a new transmission and I was embarrassed at how filthy it was. He says he doesn't care about how dirty things get, so getting his car washed was never on his radar (seriously... it was FILTHY. Our large hairy dog rides in there all the time... you can imagine). So, he hasn't had to do anything with that car since 2007 but put gas in it. 

(Along these lines... he used to always pay bills late and have late fees, electricity turned off etc etc... I always kept my mouth shut. But now that it's *our* money, I just can't let it go. I DO take over, I do step in... does that make me a control freak???)

3. He's klutzy... stomps around, hard on things. Slams doors. He's got issues with getting out of dining room chairs. He pushes and hops with his arms up fast and hard, scratching hard wood floors. Our brand new wood floors in the dining room are ruined, even with me replacing felt pads under the chairs all the time. He recently scratched our friend's floor and I freaked out and apologized to her. When I confront him, he gets defensive and then tells me I'm a nag. But... asking him to prevent permanent damage to floors? Is that nagging??

4. He only bathes 2 times a week. This has been an ongoing issue that I've really given him a hard time about. We've been to counseling over this issue. He still refuses to bathe, yet blames me for our lack of intimacy telling me that I have issues with being insecure and when I shoot his advances down, it really hurts his feelings. It's so disgusting... I'm SO embarrassed for him and for myself. (And, he refuses to go to the doctor or see a dentist. Hasn't been to the dentist in 17 years. Refuses. It was funny 8 years ago, but now it's gross. I guess if he wants to have physical issues it's his issue, right?)

5. He has no sense of direction. He cannot find his way to a restaurant we've been to, literally, over 100 times. He can't find his way home. So, I'm the GPS if we don't have one in the car. I have to cut him off and talk over him while he is talking (he talks a LOT) to tell him where to turn. It gets him all upset and flustered when I do this. It makes me crazy. I've talked to him about this and he says he feels "stupid" about it. If I push the issue, he starts yelling at me saying that I make him feel stupid and why can't I just accept him for the way he is. He claims he wants to change this, but he doesn't try to fix it or change it. 

6. He has horrible manners in general and they are getting worse. He's not courteous or thoughtful at all anymore. He doesn't wave drivers in, help ladies in need, let anyone go first, he never cleans up after himself at friends' houses... I have no idea when this got worse, but it has. So, I clean up after him and then he gets mad. "Let them think bad things about me instead of you cleaning it up and getting angry about it!" Ladies... if your man left a mess, wouldn't you feel responsible for it, or no? Maybe I'm totally wrong about this. He just does rude things and then gets mad when the other person in the situation gets angry. "They can suck it!" he yells. Perhaps he has anger issues? I know he says most of his anger comes from me and my "constant correcting of everything that he does". Maybe he does these rude things JUST to get me to react? I don't know.

So, the bottom line is this... We had a HUGE fight yesterday about all of the above. The conclusion? Since I'm the cause of his stress and anger, I'm to keep my mouth shut and not nag, correct, request, hint, make faces etc anymore when he does something "stupid". We said "clean slate". I know I agreed to this, and I was a bit passive aggressive about it (not my finest moment), so keeping my mouth shut is going to be really hard. He told me *I* am the problem. Am I really the problem? Is this all my fault??

All I can think is... he doesn't respect me, he doesn't respect women. He claims he wants a spouse who is his equal but, I feel like he needs a wife who is either as much of a slob as he is, or one that is very submissive to men. I DO have an issue with self respect and self esteem (Daddy issues... my Mom turned me into a surrogate husband so I'm a natural born people pleaser doormat) so I'm asking you fine folks... am I wrong to nag, correct or speak my mind to him when it directly affects me? I don't think I'm asking for anything too outrageous, but he's acting as if I'm making him get plastic surgery and compromise his very being for my selfish whims, and they are just whims to him.

And for the record, yes, I have nagged about stupid/petty things, too. 

For example:
His overuse of paper towels (how can someone who never bathes, wash his hands so frequently? And why the need for 4 or 5 paper towels to dry your hands, ugh!!), his ability to drag mud and dog poo onto the carpet (refusal to take off his shoes in the house) and lack of cleaning it up, too, hygiene hygiene hygiene, the anal way he cleans his electronics but it's okay to drag dog poo through the house, his inability to sign his emails anything other than his proper name (he formally signs emails to me AND gets angry if I send him an email asking him to do a chore, since he won't do a chore unless it's in writing, if I use ONE happy face, he thinks it's stupid or can't take what I'm asking seriously and then said chore doesn't get done because I made him mad).

And more...
When he gets up on the weekend, he sits on the toilet for 20 minutes and falls in and out of sleep until he "wakes up naturally". This is new. So, if we have plans, I always tack on 30 minutes beforehand for his toilet sleep. He never feeds himself... then he has this low blood sugar mania thing happen... if I don't put food in front of him, he usually doesn't eat. More than once, we've gotten take out, I've turned my back for a moment and he eats my food then says it's my fault for not paying attention and correcting him (Wait, what?!).

(OMG... I could go on and on and on....)

I wish I could gauge if this relationship was worth saving. We've been together 10 years but for the first time, I feel like he doesn't respect me anymore. He's always been "odd". I can deal with "odd", yet meek-ish about it. We used to laugh about his odd behavior... it was sort of cute. But I feel like his constant new-found anger directed at me and the way I'm reacting back isn't something I can look past.

So either I'm a nag and I deserve his anger and should hold my tongue, or he is so stubborn and unwilling to bend that he's willing to lose me over it. I'm really failing to see a compromise here


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

You're a nag.
There is no way that all of this just "started" when you two got married. It was either okay when you were dating or you thought that you would be able to change him.
Most of us don't change much.
I think that it's you who is stubborn and unwilling. Focus on the important things, like bills. Find a middle road, such as YOU handle all the bills. (My wife does because I am away half of the year)


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

The question is, why have you put up with this for 10 years? Your husband sounds weird, so why would you stick around for all this? I agree with Dan, this didn't just start overnight.

What's your deal?


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I would encourage you to have him checked out by a doctor--some of this is very, very odd. 

If things have really gotten worse lately, it's possible that he has something going on medically. If not, it's also possible that he has a personality disorder. Being incredibly thoughtless of others and then refusing to acknowledge it is a problem makes it very hard to be in a good relationship.

Sounds like you have a lot of resentment built up over years of having your needs--for basic order, cleanliness, and respect--ignored. Counseling-individual and marital--is probably your best bet for the long haul, b/c I'm pretty sure you will hit your tolerance point one day and just leave him, or have an affair. Don't wait; get some professional help now, and decide how you want to live the rest of your life. If you can compromise happily on some things, great; if not, well, then he's got to step up or lose you. 

When two people are so incompatible about living together issues--cleaning, bathing, taking care of things (floors, cars), it is really hard and there needs to be a lot of GOOD stuff going on to offset the negatives, or resentment grows.

edit: I just saw HB's reply and I realized, wow, until someone has lived with someone who has disgusting habits, they don't know what it is like. There are people who think it is ok to leave their s*it on the toilet--literally--if they "miss a little," or leave glasses of urine sitting around (rather than have gotten up to go to the bathroom), or other things that are just beyond the belief of many who haven't experienced it. Someone who treads dog crap onto a carpet--and leaves it--probably has more than a few really gross habits, and there *is* something wrong with that behavior, generally speaking--as in, most people would agree that is pretty gross. Trying to love and live with someone like that is a huge challenge--not impossible, if they are so loving and supportive and a whole lot of good stuff to balance out whatever problems are.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

grayhound said:


> Am I a nag/control freak or does he have zero respect for me?


I don't think he has respect for himself, foremost.

You touched on your childhood but I wonder what his was like? It seems he's attracted a mother-figure who nags and takes care of things, yet he craves to have an equal. Maybe that suited him in the beginning but as time passed, his needs changed. I get the impression he wants to break out of the mold that's setting on him but doesn't have the self-respect or healthy mind-state to actually make that happen. I don't understand his behaviors with cleanliness and such. 

As for your well-being, I think you could learn a lot about who you are in all of this and secure more understanding of/for yourself. Maybe even if it means validating your own self-worth. I agree with sisters about counseling.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

sisters359 said:


> edit: I just saw HB's reply and I realized, wow, until someone has lived with someone who has disgusting habits, they don't know what it is like. There are people who think it is ok to leave their s*it on the toilet--literally--if they "miss a little," or leave glasses of urine sitting around (rather than have gotten up to go to the bathroom), or other things that are just beyond the belief of many who haven't experienced it. Someone who treads dog crap onto a carpet--and leaves it--probably has more than a few really gross habits, and there *is* something wrong with that behavior, generally speaking--as in, most people would agree that is pretty gross. Trying to love and live with someone like that is a huge challenge--not impossible, if they are so loving and supportive and a whole lot of good stuff to balance out whatever problems are.


I agree with your entire post and deleted my initial reply. And I haven't been there and can't comprehend these type of living habits.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Normally I would say you are a nag but your husbands hygiene habits alone are grounds for divorce. Bathing only two days a week and not going to dentist for 17 years? My God how is sex even an option? Why are you with him again?


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

DanF said:


> You're a nag.
> There is no way that all of this just "started" when you two got married. It was either okay when you were dating or you thought that you would be able to change him.
> Most of us don't change much.
> I think that it's you who is stubborn and unwilling. Focus on the important things, like bills. Find a middle road, such as YOU handle all the bills. (My wife does because I am away half of the year)


Did you read the list of things this man does? Nobody should put up with that disgusting behavior.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

He has mommy issues, I have daddy issues.

I want someone who will make me feel safe and secure, he wants someone to baby him and give him unconditional love and affection yet never ever ever correct him (he has authority issues, too).

His Mother issues are just now surfacing. His sister has been in therapy for years and is now relaying her findings to him. His anger might be welling up from all of these findings.

I was abandoned by my misogynistic father who went on to be a good parent to his boys, but ignore me completely.

I stayed with this man because I thought he respected me, thought I was "gorgeous" (and used to tell me that all the time), was in his own world (my mother smothered me and expected me to do everything, including take care of her emotional well-being, so having someone who was emotionally distant was appealing to me) and he was my best friend. It's the last four years (the years after saying "I do" and moving across the country and buying a house... in other words, real adult stuff) that he has become angry, more stubborn and less willing to even bathe for me. It's like... If the wife asks for it, it must be unreasonable.

I know he hates his mother. I know that he doesn't respect his mother. I have a deep longing for a man to love and take care of me because I don't feel safe all the time... I want things to be stable. This lack of stability is freaking me out. Usually, as I would do with my mother, I find ways to be the people pleaser and calm the situations no matter what. But I'm tired of compromising all the time now. 

We went to counseling. The therapist told him he was sabotaging the relationship and to get on meds. In their alone sessions, she gave him pointers on being romantic, soft and thoughtful. He retained those things for 6 weeks. Six glorious weeks. He said that these things (brushing the hair off my face carefully and just touching me softly in general, leaving me little notes, taking showers) were too stressful for him to keep up. Yet, he complains about his lack of sex. For a few years I felt it was my duty to have sex with him, even when he didn't bathe... but I would go into the bathroom and cry afterward. That's called a martyr. I can't live with myself if I'm putting out for a man who won't shower. Could any of you??

So, the showering thing is #1 on the list... the others just followed. I'm sorry if I overwhelmed everyone with my laundry list. I'm SO tired of new and unusual gross habits surfacing...


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

He hates his mother which means he hates women including you.

Get out while you can.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

The not bathing would seriously disgust me. I wouldn't want to have sex with someone who oesnt shower. Yuck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

grayhound said:


> So, the showering thing is #1 on the list... the others just followed. I'm sorry if I overwhelmed everyone with my laundry list. I'm SO tired of new and unusual gross habits surfacing...


I don't know if you saw my original reply, but if you did, please accept my apology. I realized after sisters response that it wasn't a justified response to you.

It sounds like you needed to vent. This forum can be a great place for that. 

It's my non-professional, uneducated view that childhood issues only play out to a certain extent into our adult life. I think once we have awareness of our behaviors and perhaps an understanding why/how they came about, it's then easier to go about changing them. Change isn't easy, especially when dealing with the re-training of our thought patterns, but I think the hardest part is becoming aware in the first place. 

You have an awareness. You sound burnt out. What you want in a man is completely valid. Whatever steps you take, I hope you move forward with that continued awareness, so that you can bring about the type of relationship you now crave and break patterns of your past. 

Moving and all that jazz can be stressful to any marriage. Has he put his head into the sand? Is he retreating to a depressive state?


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

Heartsbeating... thank you very much. Yes... a vent was needed... I thinked it helped tremendously  Thank you for reading and then taking the time to re-read my long mess.

I think that after our fight yesterday and the way he didn't give a you know what about my feelings, I snapped. He's ignored my needs for so long, and I could deal with that because I'm used to it (and would make excuses for him)... but stomping on my feelings so blatantly? The way he talked to me showed me clearly that he doesn't respect me.

This new hobby of his has liabilities, he's bringing strangers into our house to use dangerous equipment and him fighting me on the insurance was the last straw. It's like he was just fighting me to fight me and it didn't matter why.

As "real" adult situations present themselves, he shuts down. His ex-employer's lawyer has been trying to contact him for FOUR years to transfer over his 401K. My husband won't do it. I've offered to work it out for him and he won't let me. When asked why, my husband said "I hate all those people! They can shuffle around my paperwork and I can be an inconvenience to them a little bit longer!" Ain't that mature?!? Imagine if we had a child or a "real" adult problem came our way... I would be fighting him AND this hypothetical problem. The more I realize this, the more I know it's time for me to exit. None of this came to light while we were dating or had separate finances. It's all in focus now.

All of his anger is new, too. He says it's because he hates our new city, hates our friends here... he just "hates" everything (mini epiphany... he was on prozac in high school and mentioned that his ex-girlfriend complained about him being very negative so he "decided" to change and take the prozac... for her. Interesting). But now that he has started this new hobby he's on cloud nine, idealizing his "new" friends and hyper focusing on this endeavor with a spring in his step. Which is great because he's not AS angry, but... I'm the one picking up the slack, having to worry about insurance and "real" problems and panicking about money. It's not fair in a "equal" partnership.

Thanks again everyone for listening. I guess I really did just need to vent and work it all out out loud


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

He really may have a mild form of Aspergers like you suggested. You should have him diagnosed and get therapy yourself. If you understand him you can learn how to coax him into a shower.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Obviously your husband has issues, but so do you. You see his, but you haven't really admitted to any of your own. I suspect that some of his habits are really a passive-aggressive way of rebelling against you. Not all of them, of course, but some of them. Typically, when a wife is bossy the husband rebels one way or another, depending on his personality. The loud guys will rant and rave; the quiet guys will get passive-aggressive.

You clearly have very little respect for your husband and you see yourself as the person in-charge of the relationship. Even the way you word your post says that, without considering the content. You are very patronizing towards him. I guarantee that if you become supportive of him, rather than controlling, his attitude will change. Of course, you have to trade being in control for him being a better man. You might not want to relinquish your control. But look where it's got you. 

Even things that need to get done right away that he doesn't want to do, try to find a way to encourage him in it, rather than trying to make him do it. I recommend a book called _Personality Plus_ as an excellent source of information for dealing with relationships where there are conflicting personalities.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

MSP said:


> Obviously your husband has issues, but so do you. You see his, but you haven't really admitted to any of your own. I suspect that some of his habits are really a passive-aggressive way of rebelling against you. Not all of them, of course, but some of them. Typically, when a wife is bossy the husband rebels one way or another, depending on his personality. The loud guys will rant and rave; the quiet guys will get passive-aggressive.
> 
> You clearly have very little respect for your husband and you see yourself as the person in-charge of the relationship. Even the way you word your post says that, without considering the content. You are very patronizing towards him. I guarantee that if you become supportive of him, rather than controlling, his attitude will change. Of course, you have to trade being in control for him being a better man. You might not want to relinquish your control. But look where it's got you.
> 
> Even things that need to get done right away that he doesn't want to do, try to find a way to encourage him in it, rather than trying to make him do it. I recommend a book called _Personality Plus_ as an excellent source of information for dealing with relationships where there are conflicting personalities.


Thank you for the info and input and book reference, I really appreciate it.

My husband is far from quiet. He's an extrovert, talks all the time, loves to be around people and crowds. He thrives around people. So, he's not a "quiet type". And I think his engineering mind isn't built for pure passive aggressive action. But I do think he's very stubborn. Especially because he sees me as a mother figure now.

So yes, there is some rebelling. But how can you explain his lack of bathing? It's been an issue since about two years after we started dating. He was consistently showering for the first couple of years, but then it was back to old habits. I remember thinking it was odd that his roommate commented that "Wow, he's in the shower again!" and his coworker (now one of my best friends) said that she knew he had met a girl because he started bathing and cutting his hair. I had no idea what they were talking about until years later. Why someone would use the non-bathing thing as a passive aggressive dig towards another person that they WANT to be intimate with is beyond me. He blames me for being disgusted by his greasy smell, therefore it's my fault that we aren't having sex... that if I loved him, it wouldn't matter. Like... he has no control over his stench and I'm not being sympathetic and therefore I'm a bad wife who didn't take her vows seriously... which is a load of bs (We had an episode after we moved here. I rejected him due to bathing and he actually said "I think I should be able to have SEX with MY wife!" My first clue). And believe me... he has opinions on girls who don't wear tampons, don't shave their armpits or cut their hair short. "That's disgusting!"

I have lost respect for him because I truly believe he has lost it for me. I love him, I value him, I appreciate him, he's taught me so much and I think he's one of the smartest people I've ever met in my life and I hope we can remain friends if I divorce him. That's why this is so hard to deal with. He's so intelligent and does SO much in life and yet he doesn't understand why I would want him to be clean or why I might want to insure our property or why I would want to plan for retirement... like it's a personal vendetta or something. I just don't get it.

So, bathing, home and health insurance (I had to force him to get health insurance... he didn't want it... and his father is a doctor!) and retirement are things I think I should be able to stand up for and be a b*tch about. Yes, my complaints about all of his other things are over the top. I was being immature. I think I am just that frustrated. That's not an excuse. I should let all the little stuff go... I should. Point taken.

And as far as control... I don't think I was always a controlling person... but as I started seeing late fees piling, our dog being neglected after a serious injury (another long story), our floors being destroyed, poop being tracked in etc... I did take over. I did grow horns and yell. I was sick of the surprises and the blatant disrespect of our home and of my time to take care of his messes. And yes, I don't like who I've become. I'm constantly angry, feel sorry for myself and I feel completely neglected and unloved and not important enough to bathe for. I've read about Aspbergers syndrome, I went to counseling, I read hundreds of articles on creating a better marriage, communication etc etc. Yet, still no bathing. No helping with chores. No appreciation for how I've made his life easier... but he did admit that he feels that he no longer is responsible for anything because he knows that I'll end up taking care of it. No mention of me being a control freak... just an admission that he doesn't have to worry about boring chores and paperwork anymore.

I'll leave you with this story. This is the exact moment I knew he was losing respect for me, and when everything started changing:

Our last rental home, we had to be out by the end of the month. I went out and rented us a new apartment, because he was busy working, I packed everything, got the movers, got it to the new location etc. He got off work that day and just went to the new place. I unpacked, I got it ready for him because I had more free time and he didn't want to take a day off of work to move. No problem.

So, we had 1 final day to clean the old place and get out all the other odds and ends, to get our deposit back. I went over there at noon to clean, he said he'd come over "after work", usually that means 6:00pm, to help. Well, that day he said he was tired and called in sick to work, so he was asleep when I left the apartment. He ended up sleeping all day and showed up at the old rental at 6:30, announced that he needed to get a sandwich, left and then came back after 7:00 pm. 

So, when I called him on it... that he left me there to clean by myself he said "I SAID I'd be there after work, I came up after a normal work day would have been over!!" To this day, he doesn't understand how this would hurt me. He refuses to apologize for this. Maybe this was the moment that I started controlling him, too?

That's the exact moment I knew things had changed and that he didn't respect me or my time. This was 2 or 3 years ago. I can't take it anymore and I'm honestly just tired. Tired of cleaning circles around him, apologizing for him, being angry for him smelling like a 10 year old boy. I used to love him enough to look past these things, I can't anymore.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

Hopefull363 said:


> He really may have a mild form of Aspergers like you suggested. You should have him diagnosed and get therapy yourself. If you understand him you can learn how to coax him into a shower.


Thanks so much for your input 

I've mentioned Aspergers or just generic "depression" a few dozen times. He gets VERY angry if I bring it up because in his profession, Aspies are common. He worked with one that was unbelievably inappropriate, and was fired because of it, so he equates Aspergers to this dude and failure.

I've read columns on dealing with Asperger husbands, and I've tried what they say, approached how I communicate with my husband in the ways suggested. IF my husband is in a good mood, we connect quite well and communicate well when I used the tips from the Aspie sites. If he's in a bad mood, which as been all the time lately, he withdraws and gets angry, no matter what or how I ask. So, I stopped asking... then I bottle it up, pick up the slack and end up blowing up.

Our therapist suggested meds. She thinks that the fear of the shower might be an OCD or some sort of sensory issue. He didn't want to explore it. I may go back to therapy for myself, always a good idea.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Hi, Grayhound. You're welcome for the book recommendation. 

First of all, though I'm sure you realize this, I just want to say that I'm not taking sides. In all of my posts here I try to achieve balance. And since 99% of the time only one person from the relationship will read my replies, I try to address things that the poster can affect.

Anyway, I'm definitely in favour of bathing! It is kinda gross that he doesn't bathe more frequently, though he is miles ahead of citizens of Victorian England. Perhaps you could wear a corset and role-play? Okay, seriously now, I agree that this is not a good habit of his. I agree that change would be good in this area. Let's come back to the idea of change in a bit.

As for who lost respect for whom first, the main point is that there needs to be respect both ways. I'm sure you agree with that. You can't make him respect you, but you can encourage his respect for you by respecting him. Your example of him showing up late is not necessarily him disrespecting you. Perhaps it made sense in his own mind. After all, logical, intelligent people vote for all kinds of politicians whom I think should be thrown in jail. Somehow it makes sense to them. The key in getting along is finding out how it makes sense to them. More on that below.



> So, bathing, home and health insurance (I had to force him to get health insurance... he didn't want it... and his father is a doctor!) and retirement are things I think I should be able to stand up for and be a b*tch about.


Those are all worthwhile things to want. However, I disagree that any of them gives you an excuse to be a *****. 



> I've read about Aspbergers syndrome, I went to counseling, I read hundreds of articles on creating a better marriage, communication etc etc. Yet, still no bathing. No helping with chores. No appreciation for how I've made his life easier.


Frustrating, eh? I really do empathize with you. People will usually change given the right motivation. It's sadly ironic when you see, for instance, a heavily-overweight wife who refuses to take care of herself get divorced and then go crazy on self-improvement and turn into a sex kitten. Clearly, your husband does not have the right motivation. Whatever you've done is not working. Here's the thing, most of us make decisions at an emotional level. In fact, all of us do, but some of us reason it out more. Most of the time we make our decision very quickly at a gut level and then use our heads to talk ourselves into whatever it is that we feel we want to do. For instance, I might want to buy an expensive pair of jeans. I go to the store "just to look", but really, I've made my decision and I just need the time to rationalize it. So, you need to find out what motivates your husband at a deep emotional level. According to the book I recommended people are motivated by one primary drive, with a possible secondary one somewhere behind. The four possible motivators are (a desire for):


 Peace 
 Control
 Order
 Fun
Obviously, people are more complex that that, but it's a surprisingly powerful means of understanding people, nonetheless. See the book for explanations. Dale Carnegie said back in his _How to Win Friends and Influence People_ (great book, by the way) that people always filter things through a "what's in it for me" lens and if we can present things in a way that shows them that there is, in fact, something in it for them, then we've won the battle in convincing them. Psychology has demonstrated that "the carrot" is more powerful than "the stick", so in presenting options to people it's best to do so by focusing on the positive. That can be hard to do when you're frustrated, but you gotta do what you gotta do.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

grayhound said:


> Our therapist suggested meds. She thinks that the fear of the shower might be an OCD or some sort of sensory issue.


Although I don't know all the details, I doubt that OCD is the issue. It's true that people with OCD can sometimes be very effective in hiding the full influence of their obsessions, but from what you've written I would be surprised if OCD was the reason for his lack of hygiene. And I'm extremely doubtful that meds would be helpful in the long-term.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

MSP said:


> Although I don't know all the details, I doubt that OCD is the issue. It's true that people with OCD can sometimes be very effective in hiding the full influence of their obsessions, but from what you've written I would be surprised if OCD was the reason for his lack of hygiene. And I'm extremely doubtful that meds would be helpful in the long-term.


I appreciate your positive spin on everything and your upbeat attitude... and yes, Dale Carnegie is pretty great  I agree, it's hard to address any situation when you are only talking to one party. I'd actually be very curious to what he would say on a forum like this... anonymously. Very curious.

I always thought my husband's "carrot" was sex. So, I would reward him after bathing with sex. I would get in there and scrub him. I got lingerie... went all out. It was great.

The rewards stopped when he stopped bathing, but still expected the sex marathons. He resents me for this. I have no idea what to do about that?

I've made it clear that my carrot is stability... and there has been no lack of chaos lately. So, yes, we're both on edge. Maybe I am making knee jerk comments and decisions based on my hurt ego and not with my calculus-loving rational brain.

I should clarify... to our therapist, my husband seemed a little depressed or had anxiety issues because of his out of character angry outbursts over the last 4 years. The not bathing could be a sensory reaction to this. i.e... the water hurt him, the soap annoyed him, the smells were overwhelming etc because he was already at an elevated sensitivity/anxiety level. Although I really think it's mild autism, myself. My husband claims that he doesn't like to bathe because his dad used to yell at him to get out of the shower in the mornings? Which doesn't make sense. In any case, therapy is needed.

OCD (really, I think it's Aspberger on this end) because he hyper focuses on one thing at a time. Either his computer programming, music, his new hobby, or in the case of the beginning of our relationship, me. He literally talks about ONE subject for months. He talks about it with extreme passion, quickly and with tunnel vision. Like a kid who just LOVES dinosaurs, you know? Although, having him hyperfocus on me felt pretty great. I was sad when that was over, I must say. I was always okay with the hyperfocusing... because the results are usually spectacular. But, I do feel neglected when he's in this state.

The silver lining to all of this, I know we'll continue to be friends. We were friends before we dated, we were friends in the 7+ years we dated. Something about getting married and moving and facing adult decisions that come with marriage triggered the change in both of us. Or the change was coming anyway, I'm not sure. I always thought that hardships, hard times, taking on challenges together brought couples together?

All I know is that I've been asking him to change this one thing about himself for 10 years. My love for him kept me here. He refuses to bathe. And yes, it has crossed my mind that what if I leave and then he becomes the posterboy for Axe products  You know what I mean...

But who is respecting who aside... I have to respect myself more to not deal with this anymore. I think I need to start drafting my exit strategy. I'm SO hurt. I feel like a cornered, injured animal... and my hissing and spitting isn't helping anything, yes... but I strongly feel he's had a hand in my hurt and lack of feeling secure here, which is my motivator. I want peace.

Thanks again so much MSP, for giving me a lot to think about...


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Your situation sounds very frustrating and very disrespectful.

For me, a grown person who doesn't bathe is just disgusting. I have to BEG my 12 year old to bathe. If I had to beg my husband, we'd have issues too.

Thankfully, he's very OCD about being clean. 

I do not blame you for how you feel. i can't imagine how it feels to know that he can't clean himself and that would solve many issues.


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## RDL (Feb 10, 2012)

Hello,

After reading most of your posts I would suggest that your partner's behavior seems to be normal male behavior that is amplified. In other words he seems like most men but with more intense focus in some areas. 

As with most men his natural focus is outside the home. In his job and his hobbies. He has the tendency to give everything else the minimum amount of attention and energy. 

Mild relationship problems are common with complaints like not cleaning, not bathing, not caring about the household environment in general. In your case these problems seem to be amplified. 

One of the likely reasons for this amplified behavior is probably a negative cycle building between you two along the lines of: 

- he is focusing on an activity and because of lack of attention elsewhere he messes up a household item, you call him on it, he feels criticized and resentful. The negative cycle is you saying he does not respect you cause of his lapses and he saying that you don't respect him cause you criticize and perhaps not appreciate his skills and determination.

While it would certainly be appropriate for your partner to pay a lot more attention to the household issues since that is not the case there are steps that you can do to positively influence him to do more. 

Thing is most men are very suborn when they perceive the request is coming with a negative energy. Getting a man to respond to your requests is a critical relationship building skill and chances are without training and practice you reach the point where he is angry and resentful at you and no longer responds to much anything.

Now you seem to already have read very good materials that help with this issue such as "Dale Carnegie". I congratulate you on the initiative and please keep in mind that reading and understanding a concept does not usually bring about lasting positive change. You need to diligently practice the skills until they become habitual, similarly to going to the gym.

The good news is that your husband showed he is fully capable of giving you more of what you need in those 6 weeks when he tried to change his habits. 

One of the reasons he may have stopped was perhaps because he felt his efforts where not appreciated. 

A very common misunderstanding between men and women in a relationship is the expectation on both sides of partners to fulfill their needs instinctively. For example he feels that since he still wants to have sex with you and it's obvious to him that he needs this fulfilled and he does not mind his lack of hygiene that it should be no effort for you to do so. 

The reality is that it is quite an effort. 

You perhaps feel that being attentive around the house and romantic is a need that is obvious to you and should be no effort on his part to meet. 

The reality is that it is quite the effort. 

Now please keep in mind that I do understand and sympathize with the difficult situation you are in. What I write here are pieces of advice in case you decide to improve things. 

To that end: 

In order to improve your situation I would suggest two things for both you and your partner: 

1. Get informed on the basic skills of building a balanced long term relationship.
2. Diligently practice those skills to form the healthy habits necessary for long term success.

Many people think that somehow instinctively we will be able to respond to our partner's needs and that is a common dangerous misconception. For example the ruining of the floors is simply more important to you than it is to him. Both of you need to understand this and he needs to respect the importance it has for you even though it's not obvious to him, similarly to how you need to respect the importance his hobbies have to him. This can be surprising to you as it is blatantly obvious to you and most women the importance of that attitude, however chances are that it's not as important to him and most men. 

As such getting informed of such basic differences between men and women and how to handle common challenges is a critical skill. He can learn and be motivated to show you the kind of affection you want and you can learn to support him emotionally the way he wants. The key aspect is learning as instinctively we offer what we would like to receive.

Please keep in mind that understanding such concepts is not enough. Similarly to going to the gym you need to persevere in practicing these habits to bring about positive long term change.

As to where to start, a very good materials is "John Gray Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus".


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

You're welcome, again. 



grayhound said:


> I always thought my husband's "carrot" was sex. So, I would reward him after bathing with sex. I would get in there and scrub him. I got lingerie... went all out. It was great.
> 
> The rewards stopped when he stopped bathing, but still expected the sex marathons. He resents me for this. I have no idea what to do about that?


Well, it was a good try, but you succeeded in making him like sex, not baths. The thing to do is to work out why he doesn't like baths and attack that directly. A lot of time rewards for certain behaviours backfire. There are studies where people who were paid to do a task performed worse than people who volunteered. Weird, eh? As I said before, motivation is best when it's internal--i.e., the person has their own reasons for doing something. And you need to work out what makes them tick so that you can trigger that motivation.



grayhound said:


> Maybe I am making knee jerk comments and decisions based on my hurt ego and not with my calculus-loving rational brain.


You can't just ignore your emotions, though, right? Compared to many threads here, you are doing very well. 



grayhound said:


> My husband claims that he doesn't like to bathe because his dad used to yell at him to get out of the shower in the mornings? Which doesn't make sense.


Wait! Yes, it does! That makes perfect sense! He simply has a negative association with bathing. This is not uncommon at all. For instance, I know of one man who, when he was young, his parents were so strict about correct eating habits that they used to hit him without warning over the back of his hands with a wooden ruler if he held the knife and fork incorrectly at the dinner table. It took him years to be able to eat dinner with his wife and daughter instead of in another room while reading a book or at the computer. 

In the end what helped him was reframing and gradual changes. He decided that he wanted to make his own family's mealtimes an important family event, so he had to participate. He started by bringing his book or laptop to the dinner table and slowly eased his way in to full interaction. It took him two years, though he had other major issues to deal with at the same time, like OCD. 



grayhound said:


> OCD (really, I think it's Aspberger on this end) because he hyper focuses on one thing at a time. Either his computer programming, music, his new hobby, or in the case of the beginning of our relationship, me. He literally talks about ONE subject for months. He talks about it with extreme passion, quickly and with tunnel vision. Like a kid who just LOVES dinosaurs, you know?


Yeah, I know. That's definitely not OCD. OCD is a compulsion to perform certain actions in a ritualistic way and there is no joy with it. People with OCD are very focused on their compulsions, but they feel trapped and forced by their own minds into these things. They almost always hate their compulsions. It's a very stressful thing to go through. When they talk about the thing that they have OCD in regard with they look for reassurance (e.g., "Do you think I left the stove on?"), rather than just wanting to share it. Most of the time they actually try to hide what it is they feel OCD about, due to embarrassment. They know it's not normal, but they feel like they can't stop. It can be a real blow to their self-esteem.



grayhound said:


> Although, having him hyperfocus on me felt pretty great. I was sad when that was over, I must say. I was always okay with the hyperfocusing... because the results are usually spectacular. But, I do feel neglected when he's in this state.


I understand. You can break him out of this state--for chunks at a time. It's almost like an addictive process in his brain and if you remove him from it for a while he'll "sober up" and take more note of his surroundings--meaning you. If you can go away for a holiday together where he won't have access to his hobby that's one way to break it, temporarily. He might get agitated about it, but if you can fill his time up with something else he'll get by and eventually, after some practice with this, he'll even possibly learn to enjoy this alternative to his hobbies. 

The other thing you can do is to introduce new things into your life with him. He'll gravitate to newness. Do new things together, wear new clothes, etc. Kinda tough when you like stability, but the good news is that you get to pick and choose what you introduce. And you don't have to do it every day.



grayhound said:


> The silver lining to all of this, I know we'll continue to be friends.


Don't give up yet! I believe that your relationship can be not only salvaged, but better than you can currently imagine. And it's not likely that you'll remain friends after a divorce. It's possible, but not likely.



grayhound said:


> I have to respect myself more to not deal with this anymore.


You can have respect yourself and stay married. If you've been told that staying in your relationship is not showing self-respect, you've been deceived. 



grayhound said:


> I want peace.


Well, there you go, peace is a major motivator, like that book says.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

I agree with above Don't give up yet! I still feel like you do that it is a functioning form of Aspergers. Try to find a support group by you. This way you can find out from people that have the same problem, what worked for them. Their brain works differently, so problems have to be handled differently. A support group and IC will help you understand the differences. Also, if he refuses treatment, please be aware of the fact that he most likely won't change. He won't be able to without treatment. It will be up to you to decide whether or not this is something you can continually deal with.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

Thanks for the input everyone, I truly appreciate it.

I guess I had a knee jerk reaction to the responses and the suggestions on how to change the marriage.

The responses I got involves me introducing new activities, wearing new clothes, joining a support group, giving him lots of space and reward him and give him positive reinforcement for good behavior.

This is sounding more and more like I am dealing with my own 14 year old child or my dog and not a 30-something year old man.

I guess I don't understand why I should be putting in more effort when he won't do anything or take my feelings seriously. 

A few days ago I told him I wanted him to move out... that I was done. He said "Oh, just wait... when I'm done with this project (the hobby) in 3 weeks, we can talk about it then! Don't do anything irrational until then!" Yep. That's him telling me where to stick my emotions once again. Although, I did bring it up when he was busy so perhaps that was poor timing on my part.

I guess my point is... why would I want to go to some support group or make sure to do things that would make him happy when he won't even stop and talk to me about how I want him to move out?



> Many people think that somehow instinctively we will be able to respond to our partner's needs and that is a common dangerous misconception. For example the ruining of the floors is simply more important to you than it is to him. Both of you need to understand this and he needs to respect the importance it has for you even though it's not obvious to him, similarly to how you need to respect the importance his hobbies have to him. This can be surprising to you as it is blatantly obvious to you and most women the importance of that attitude, however chances are that it's not as important to him and most men.


Okay... wait... "ruining the floors is more important to me than it is to him". That right there... this is where the problem is. And "similarly to how you need to respect the importance of his hobbies". So, we're comparing him ruining our 4 year old $5,000 floor with me respecting his hobbies? Uh, no. Not the same. Can't be compared.

You make it sound like his ego and his feelings are more important than mine. Or maybe you think that since you can't hear from my husband that this is one sided or that I'm the one with the problems or... something like that. I don't know.

He is a nice guy, he is a kind person... but I think we should have kept it at "friends".


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Ok, then leave. 

You asked if you were a nag or if he disrespected you. People gave advice.

YOU know your situation best. If you want to leave, then leave.


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## Schill (Dec 7, 2011)

If he's only been like this since being married, he could be depressed and has anxiety. 

That sounds a lot of what I am going through. I'm not even close the same person I was, even started to wonder if I had ADD of some sort, but after seeing a psychologist, he said it's anxiety/depression mostly. 

For me, it's been probably 6 months sicne I've gotten my car serviced (needs it bad, brakes squeel, car has a recall for the steering, oil, etc) the bathroom has had plaster on it for some time (blue walls, white plaster) the floors need to be replaced, the bedroom needs to be painted, all the trim. (woah, I guess I am making myself a list!!) I'm sure there's more but that's all I can think of. 

So, I can sort of relate to your husband.. You need to sit down and talk to him about things. My guess is he's not happy and feels trapped.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

The reason you should go to a support group was explained. Not to make him happy but to figure out a way to deal with it and understand it. If it is Aspergers he certainly can't help acting in certain ways. Maybe with a support group you can learn to help him. Also I mentioned that you may need to decide if this is something you can live with. If you can't leave.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

He sounds horrible. That is why people are amazed you married him and stayed with him.



> He is a nice guy, he is a kind person... but I think we should have kept it at "friends".


What you have outlined is plenty of reason to be fed up. But may I ask, is there another person of interest who looks to be more suitable than your husband? Anyone in particular or just in general?


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

Wow. Your husband bathes twice a week? You're so lucky! Mine's a one-timer. And very similar personalities. Very similar situation. I can handle two days. Maybe even three. Past three days and I won't touch him...even for a hug or peck on the cheek. I will also try not to stay in the same room as him. When I say something about it, he blames me and the kids because "everytime I go to take a bath one of you are in there," (one bathroom). But that doesn't really explain the 10-12 hours we aren't even there for work, school, and extracurricular activities. Or the hours of time we are never in the bathroom...


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I do not understand grown people who don't bathe!

Is it a mental issue? I mean, I went camping for a week and didn't bathe (I camp for real  ) and I couldn't stand myself!!


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