# Does TAM sometimes get it wrong?



## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

If you are a long timer on TAM, or maybe just read a lot of posts, you know that certain information on a post will cause many to jump to a single conclusion. 

Ex-boyfriend/girlfriend contacts your SO? Get a VAR, he/she is cheating. 
He/she told the truth - but it's trickle truth and you never know where it ends and you should assume the worst.
He/she has low sex drive? Leave them! An LD never changes!

Any of the above sound familiar? With many chiming in behind the first and second? Do you ever wonder if your quick assessment with others joining in leads to someone on TAM making a bad decision? After all, if an OP posts here that they took the first piece of advice, so many now want the OP to keep going. They get "attaboys" and "like a boss!" and all kinds of kudos for "ghosting" and doing "180" and NC. But these are real people and you can't possibly know the details of the person who isn't here on TAM; all you know is what the OP tells you. And the OP may have issues of their own that skew their story to make them seem like the victim, so you give them the victim advice and they follow it.

Maybe TAM doesn't always get it right. Maybe there are times that the majority is wrong. After all, there are many here who have been hurt and they seem keen to add their voice to the chorus of the betrayed. 

Always keep in mind that when you have a relationship, there are at least two stories there to tell, and we will only ever hear one of them here.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

This brings to mind a thread started by a man who complained that his wife did not want to have sex with him. Of course the TAM bandwagon told him to dump her and went on and on about how awful she was. The more info he gave, the more people posted sympathizing with him.

Then his wife figured out that he was posting here and she joined the thread. And of course she posted the rest of the story. 

Apparently this guy seldom bathed or showered. He would not brush his teeth. When he was not at work in was laying in bed watching TV. That's all he did when at home. I believe he even ate in bed. When he wanted sex, he would lay there naked and call for her to come jump on him. 

Now once she was posting, he admitted to all that. Gee, no wonder she did not want sex with him.

I often, very often, wish that the spouse would post here so that we could know their side of the story as well.


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## rockon (May 18, 2016)

Although I only recently signed up, I have been an off & on lurker since mid 2009. While I have seen some bad advice (make that some God awful advice) I noticed over the years people on TAM are mostly spot on. 

Example: Thread after thread a poster was warned his/her spouse is cheating. Poster refuses to believe it's true. TAM gives advice how to catch them. Weeks/months later the poster finds out the spouse was cheating. They come back on TAM to thank everyone and want advice on how to cope. I have seen this scenario played out so, so many times. 

Overall, the advice on TAM is consistent largely because many members have "been there, done that".


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Begin again said:


> If you are a long timer on TAM, or maybe just read a lot of posts, you know that certain information on a post will cause many to jump to a single conclusion.
> 
> Ex-boyfriend/girlfriend contacts your SO? Get a VAR, he/she is cheating.
> He/she told the truth - but it's trickle truth and you never know where it ends and you should assume the worst.
> ...


Often it is about _which_ "truths" they pick to give their side of the story, more than what the story is. Likewise what the results are.

As EleGirl mentioned some are very onesided, which why when they don't take the clear obvious course and clearly ignoring more probing questions, it's clear they are fishing for a specific angle or reaction. Advice-wise that isn't important (that it doesn't match The Truth) because it just needs to relevant to the information given - they want more, they read and provide more honesty (which is why honesty is so important). By responding to the instruction, the OP has to decide about doing it, then taking next step, OR revising what they're telling others. Which brings it back to being honest about what they're telling themselves, which is usually the biggest problem in the first place anyway!


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

rockon said:


> Although I only recently signed up, I have been an off & on lurker since mid 2009. While I have seen some bad advice (make that some God awful advice) I noticed over the years people on TAM are mostly spot on.
> 
> Example: Thread after thread a poster was warned his/her spouse is cheating. Poster refuses to believe it's true. TAM gives advice how to catch them. Weeks/months later the poster finds out the spouse was cheating. They come back on TAM to thank everyone and want advice on how to cope. I have seen this scenario played out so, so many times.
> 
> Overall, the advice on TAM is consistent largely because many members have "been there, done that".


True, but I also know that I purposefully didn't share what my soon to be ex does because I knew that TAM would say he's cheating.

1. Texts: He deletes his texts almost immediately. 
2. Emails: He clears out his sent items daily, has a hard delete on anything that he puts in the trash.
3. Facebook: Is friends with a number of ex girlfriends and also friends with a woman he met down at the beach during his "boys" weekends with his buddies. And one of the wives of his buddies hired a PI and caught her H cheating on one of these annual weekends.
4. Took phone calls and received emails from his ex girlfriends while we were together.

Now, number 3 and 4 led to me not trusting him, and I don't know what to make of 1 and 2. What I can tell you is that I very much doubt he cheated. But in a moment when I'm feeling angry and doubtful and I posted the above, I'm pretty sure I'd get the "Get a VAR" and "he's cheating" posts immediately.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

TAM is most often right given the information provided by the OP is correct.

Or at least I am right. Some persons give god awful advice, and we all know who they are and what their agenda is, yet they are allowed to keep posting.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

People in real life.. people gathering on a forum.. statistically speaking.. we're mostly geared selfish & struggle to see our own flaws, shortcomings, our own hand in what brings us here.. but some DO...

I tend to look for some humility in a post.. without any of this.. I am less likely to believe everything a poster says...everyone has some dirt, some contribution to the breakdown... so let's just be honest about it.. 

I think it's well & good to do a little drilling to a poster about themselves when they land here.. just do it respectfully.....for a low drive situation as mentioned.. although unfathomable to many of us.. but Yeah... some men may not shower enough & they stink -rebuffing a partner!!.... how anyone could be this clueless rather blows my personal mind.. but OK... and surely wouldn't the wife just come out & tell him he stinks ... (I would!)...there would be many fights over something like this.. what does some need.... a Brick over their head...

But yeah....

Ask questions !!!...if a loss of desire.. have they gained a 100 lbs... is there any resentment she may be feeling towards you? -trying to unearth where the other may be coming from...

If one is met with too many defenses... well that just speaks VOLUMES right there...that shows how they handle conflict. 

Or when I get the feeling a poster is "TOO GIVING" has put themselves out there again & again & again...remaining faithful ..but weary.....to be honest.. I do seem to trust what they are saying.. as they aren't rude, harsh, defensive.. anyone who comes at you like a bull dog....I would more so doubt their honesty to their own flaws.. but that's just how I read things here..


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Begin again said:


> True, but I also know that I purposefully didn't share what my soon to be ex does because I knew that TAM would say he's cheating.
> 
> 1. Texts: He deletes his texts almost immediately.
> 2. Emails: He clears out his sent items daily, has a hard delete on anything that he puts in the trash.
> ...


I would tell you that very thing, BA.

Too many red flags to ignore.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Hmm I don't see how ruling out cheating is a bad thing. I wish someone had suggested that when I was going through it and in my denial phase. If they investigate and rule it out great the relationship has a shot. 

Guess maybe I am just of the mindset you can't work on, fix or move on till you have all the real information. I think that's what the real advice is.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I'm new, so I probably shouldn't answer this.

I agree with your observations. Quite a few times I find myself responding opposite of the group...I just go ahead and throw my .02 in anyway.

Is the group right? Probably, but I'm here to help others after TAM helped me. All I have to offer is how I see it...


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> This brings to mind a thread started by a man who complained that his wife did not want to have sex with him. Of course the TAM bandwagon told him to dump her and went on and on about how awful she was. The more info he gave, the more people posted sympathizing with him.
> 
> Then his wife figured out that he was posting here and she joined the thread. And of course she posted the rest of the story.
> 
> ...


That is a good example of the deception of the one-sided story; but to be fair to TAM; most of the times at least a couple of people will ask about weight gain, personal hygiene, and pulling your weight in the relationship.




Begin again said:


> True,* but I also know that I purposefully didn't share what my soon to be ex does because I knew that TAM would say he's cheating.
> *
> 1. Texts: He deletes his texts almost immediately.
> 2. Emails: He clears out his sent items daily, has a hard delete on anything that he puts in the trash.
> ...



Yeah, a lot of that sounds really fishy. Could you be critical of TAM techniques, because somewhere inside your gut is screaming "red flag" at you?






SimplyAmorous said:


> I tend to look for some humility in a post.. without any of this.. I am less likely to believe everything a poster says..*.everyone has some dirt, some contribution to the breakdown... so let's just be honest about it..
> *
> I think it's well & good to do a little drilling to a poster about themselves when they land here..* just do it respectfully*.....for a low drive situation as mentioned.. although unfathomable to many of us.. but Yeah...* some men may not shower enough & they stink -rebuffing a partner!!.... how anyone could be this clueless rather blows my personal mind.. but OK... and surely wouldn't the wife just come out & tell him he stinks ... (I would!)..*.there would be many fights over something like this.. what does some need.... a Brick over their head...
> 
> ...



:iagree:





farsidejunky said:


> I would tell you that very thing, BA.
> 
> *Too many red flags to ignore*.



@Begin again Like I said above, your own relationship sounds very casual about boundaries.

And if you are BOTH okay with that; absolutely fine.

It definitely sounds, though, that you aren't number one priority with him. Otherwise, ex-girlfriends and new female friends met while he is on boys' weekends at the beach, probably wouldn't be in his life.

However, if you do the same thing; then fair is fair.

If you don't have ex's in your life, don't make OSF's when you go to the beach with your gf's, then, at least, this is an area where you and your bf. have very different standards.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Some people think every cheater deserves a second chance.

Other people think that even if your spouse only so much as looks at a previous partner that you should 'kick them to the curb' and just walk away!

Others recommend beating up their lover and throwing their WS out of the marital home.

One size does not fit all.

Put it this way. Wold you hire a plumber who had only one tool in their toolbox?

Of course not!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

I'm sure probably sometimes TAM gets it wrong yes.
Important thing about TAM is to take all the advice and disregard what doesn't work for you.
Problem is also..we generally only have half the story and there are usually key pieces of information left out in the initial post. Usually there is more to the story. 
I've found that in most cases it seems that the collective TAM community have great instincts and those instincts are normally right. When you've lived it you can generally see it when it's right in front of you so to speak.


Sent from my iPhone


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

When there are multiple red flags (e.g., ILYBINILWY, glued to the phone, talking about someone and then suddenly stopping, etc.), I don't clearly recall a time when the consensus on TAM was wrong in saying that at least an EA was going on. There may have been a couple times that was a wrong diagnosis that I don't recall, but it is pretty close to 100% IIRC.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Of coarse TAM posters sometimes get it wrong! We deal with one side of the story, we often relate our own experiences to a scenario regardless of the fact the thread starters situation has different dynamics. Also there's the mob mentality thing, once a TAM poster starts a "theme" on a thread others seem to follow suit. Also this is the internet, there are people on here for no reason except entertainment value, they will post asinine questions or offer absurd advise. 

Personally I try to read between the lines, I never take what an original poster writes as absolute truth and I don't easily let others sway my opinion.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Begin again said:


> True, but I also know that I purposefully didn't share what my soon to be ex does because I knew that TAM would say he's cheating.
> 
> 1. Texts: He deletes his texts almost immediately.
> 2. Emails: He clears out his sent items daily, has a hard delete on anything that he puts in the trash.
> ...


3 & 4 would make me question the level of devotion he has to you and your interests about those of others - something that I think is important in a _partner_.
1 & 2, he could just be a touch OCD


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Spicy said:


> I'm new, so I probably shouldn't answer this.
> 
> I agree with your observations. Quite a few times I find myself responding opposite of the group...I just go ahead and throw my .02 in anyway.
> 
> Is the group right? Probably, but I'm here to help others after TAM helped me. All I have to offer is how I see it...


Personally I agree with that attitude.
Multiple differing opinions, while initially confusing, give the OP options of what to look for, and so they get a feel for which way things are really going. 
I really dislike the forums where everything is pretty much prejudiced about who or what is happening _before_ the OP even posts... (sympathy, group h8, etc)


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Meh. The answer to your question is Yes. Tam has been wrong on both sides. We have two divisive camps on TAM. The one Ele mentioned and the other one is the polar opposite. I've seen both get it utterly wrong and hurt the posters. People are brought up to forgive and forget so, the divorce/cheat crowd gets slammed and insulted much more than the "you can reconcile at any cost" crowd.

I do find your post a point of cherry picking. The "attaboys" are freaking rare because most OPs, especially concerning cheating, do nothing for months and sometimes the span of a year. So, some find it refreshing when someone actually says yep, I divorced, left, threw him/her out.

Edit.

As to the rest of your post. You are 100% right, but we go off of half of what is said on the internet as in life. We RARELY, if ever, know the truth about anything anyone says outside of our own family and house. This argument applies to marriages all the way up to heads of countries and other leaders. While I sort of agree with the sentiment you are building, basically it boils down to no one should EVER give advice because we rarely know both sides of the story. Sorry, I just don't buy this argument.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You have a thread in Reconcilation about getting back together with him after a nine-month separation. You mentioned that it's not going that well. My post on that thread was that he wants R on his terms and not yours. He's not exactly been anxious to compromise. 

Had you posted on that thread the information you've posted on this thread, I would have added the possibility that he cheated because those are certainly red flags. Did he really cheat? Only he knows for sure. But what is known right now is that he's not exactly jumping through hoops to do what he knows you need in order to R.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

No doubt, sometimes TAM's consensus is wrong, and we won't know unless the OP returns to let us know. There is a post on another forum where a guy thought his wife was cheating, she denied it, he found convincing evidence, divorced her, and eventually found that he'd misinterpreted the evidence and she actually was telling the truth and had not cheated. Yeah, not everyone is a cheater, despite sometimes convincing evidence.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

TAM is sometimes wrong

I on the other hand am always right :wink2:


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

EllisRedding said:


> TAM is sometimes wrong
> 
> I on the other hand am always right :wink2:




Wrong again!!! lol


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Cooper said:


> Of coarse TAM posters sometimes get it wrong! We deal with one side of the story, we often relate our own experiences to a scenario regardless of the fact the thread starters situation has different dynamics. Also there's the mob mentality thing, once a TAM poster starts a "theme" on a thread others seem to follow suit. Also this is the internet, there are people on here for no reason except entertainment value, they will post asinine questions or offer absurd advise.
> 
> Personally I try to read between the lines, I never take what an original poster writes as absolute truth and I don't easily let others sway my opinion.


This has been my experience as well. Every thread will have a spectrum of suggestions, answers or advice. Because of this spectrum we really can't say that TAM is right or wrong only that some opinions were right or wrong. Within the past few years I see more and more frequently posters provide actions without explaining when and why the action is appropriate. For instance it has already been explained on this thread one motivation behind getting a var etc is to eliminate an affair so that the real problem is treated. 

Sometimes the OP engages and sometimes they don't. When I came to address my EA I never posted a thread until I had already figured out the problem. It was the sum of the advice to others with good context that helped me the most. 

So I think a better question would be how often does TAM really help? The mob effect cooper sees I think decreases helping the OP. TAM sometimes seems like the seagull scene from Finding Nemo with posters emphatically posting their opinion over and over, mine, mine, mine! Too many people on a thread argueing continually over a nuance of opinion iis most likely not helpful to someone who doesn't know what's happening to them.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

TAM gets some areas right - infidelity signs, some SIM issues, etc - but isn't of much help in hardcore cases especially those involving underlying mental or skeleton in closet issues.

Reading the few success stories is not as useful as reading the failure stories. It's like reviews on Amazon. If you go by the five star reviews you'll be screwed every time. Start with the one star reviews and look for patterns.

There's also the issue of who issues advice. A lot of SIM advise is doled out by people in great marriages where leaving the toilet seats up would be their biggest issue compared to what others are dealing with.

TAM is useful as a descriptive tool to help one realize they're not alone in it, and get support along the way. But I'm not as confident about its prescriptive powers


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Begin again said:


> Maybe TAM doesn't always get it right. Maybe there are times that the majority is wrong. After all, there are many here who have been hurt and they seem keen to add their voice to the chorus of the betrayed.
> 
> Always keep in mind that when you have a relationship, there are at least two stories there to tell, and we will only ever hear one of them here.


Contributing posters can only give advice based on our own experiences. Personally I think that is what makes this board a great place. Keep in mind that usually people outside of a situation can see it much more clearly than those who are knee deep in the muck, too. I don't really think its a matter of the forum voices being wrong, because it is up to the OP to glean what they need from the advice given and ONLY the OP is responsible for how they proceed.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

john117 said:


> TAM gets some areas right - infidelity signs, some SIM issues, etc - but isn't of much help in hardcore cases especially those involving underlying mental or skeleton in closet issues.
> 
> Reading the few success stories is not as useful as reading the failure stories. *It's like reviews on Amazon. If you go by the five star reviews you'll be screwed every time. Start with the one star reviews and look for patterns.*


 *This is exactly what I do*.. on Ebay too.. I click to see ALL the Negatives to see what we're dealing with.. before I'd buy from that seller, or purchase that product (if amazon).. I've decided against it many many times & found something better with some research...


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think for most posts, the OP gets a real good diversity of responses. You will get what seems to be the definitive answer but people here are open enough to tell you what they really think about something. As for what the best is for the OP, that's entirely for the OP to decide. I'm sure that sometimes we will get something wrong but it's not intentional. We can only go by the set of facts that the OP lays out for us. 

I can say that I have learned ALOT from being here and it's helped me gain perspective in alot of areas.


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

Openminded said:


> You have a thread in Reconcilation about getting back together with him after a nine-month separation. You mentioned that it's not going that well. My post on that thread was that he wants R on his terms and not yours. He's not exactly been anxious to compromise.
> 
> Had you posted on that thread the information you've posted on this thread, I would have added the possibility that he cheated because those are certainly red flags. Did he really cheat? Only he knows for sure. But what is known right now is that he's not exactly jumping through hoops to do what he knows you need in order to R.


Interesting take... Considering he actually was trying pretty hard to reconcile. He just doesn't have anyone's perspective except his own to help him. He was motivated, but I had to stop it before it started because he diving in emotionally and I knew he was going to get hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> No doubt, sometimes TAM's consensus is wrong, *and we won't know unless the OP returns to let us know*. There is a post on another forum where a guy thought his wife was cheating, she denied it, he found convincing evidence, divorced her, and eventually found that he'd misinterpreted the evidence and she actually was telling the truth and had not cheated. Yeah, not everyone is a cheater, despite sometimes convincing evidence.


There have been many threads where the OP either hasn't returned or returns very infrequently yet the thread takes on a life of it's own with one posters groundless supposition becoming absolute fact just a few pages later. Maybe there should be a limit on how long a thread can go without additional update by OP.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Begin again said:


> Interesting take... Considering he actually was trying pretty hard to reconcile. He just doesn't have anyone's perspective except his own to help him. He was motivated, but I had to stop it before it started because he diving in emotionally and I knew he was going to get hurt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Interesting take? I based my comment on what you wrote on that thread in R about a week ago. Maybe you've changed your mind since then?

"Well, reconciliation just blew up hugely. I'm sad and mad at myself for trying. I give up. After many hopeful moments with him, today we fought for hours via text and phone. He says X when he means Y, then tells me I'm wrong and misinterpreted what he says. Over and over. And it's about crazy ****! This isn't what he said, but like this: "I never said it was a good place to eat. I said I liked to eat there." 

"Seriously, we went around and with crazy crap like that. And I got sucked into it, pulled down into exactly how it was when I left 9 months ago. I haven't felt this crappy since before I moved out. And even hours into the insane fight, into his crazy double talk, he's saying he doesn't understand why I'm upset and he wants us to work. I feel so manipulated right now, so mind f---ked. and I'm really, really sad and angry at myself that I let it get to this point. I seriously got gas lighted today."
Posted via Mobile Device


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> This brings to mind a thread started by a man who complained that his wife did not want to have sex with him. Of course the TAM bandwagon told him to dump her and went on and on about how awful she was. The more info he gave, the more people posted sympathizing with him.
> 
> Then his wife figured out that he was posting here and she joined the thread. And of course she posted the rest of the story.
> 
> ...


So they told him to dump her? Get a divorce? Seems like the right advice, even if given to the wrong person! 

How many trolls and sock puppets will it take for us to realize that some of these posts aren't even real? 

I think it's a mistake to take on too much responsibility for others decisions. They came here willingly. No one has said they are a counselor, unless they are. 

Buyer beware!


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## Yosemite (Aug 23, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I believe he even ate in bed.


Is that so wrong?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

get it wrong? on an internet chat forum: Say its not so!!!!

OF COURSE TAM can get it wrong. You are often asking questions of people who have be DEVASTATED by a trusting spouse, and will no longer give ANYONE the benefit of the doubt. 

Sometimes a gut feeling about a spouse cheating, is a valid thing. Other times, you are just being paranoid. 

WHATEVER advice you get online, even here, you need to take with a grain of salt.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Yosemite said:


> Is that so wrong?


If your wife says so. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yosemite (Aug 23, 2016)

jld said:


> If your wife says so.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Following arbitrary rules created and enforced by your significant other is wrong.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Yosemite said:


> Following arbitrary rules created and enforced by your significant other is wrong.


I was kidding you, Yosemite.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I'd say anyone outside of your relationship has the high potential of 'getting it wrong,' since what happens in a relationship, the most minor of details, only the couple really knows. I will say that monitoring a spouse's whereabouts never made to sense to me, after infidelity comes to the surface, because it just seems like you're staying in the marriage for the wrong reasons. But, that said, my thought to any relationship whether it's marriage or not, is don't leave for the wrong reasons, and don't stay for the wrong reasons, either. I think if people are honest with themselves, they'll figure out what that means for them.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

LDs often provide stunningly useful insights.




EleGirl said:


> This brings to mind a thread started by a man who complained that his wife did not want to have sex with him. Of course the TAM bandwagon told him to dump her and went on and on about how awful she was. The more info he gave, the more people posted sympathizing with him.
> 
> Then his wife figured out that he was posting here and she joined the thread. And of course she posted the rest of the story.
> 
> ...


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

Begin again said:


> If you are a long timer on TAM, or maybe just read a lot of posts, you know that certain information on a post will cause many to jump to a single conclusion.
> 
> Ex-boyfriend/girlfriend contacts your SO? Get a VAR, he/she is cheating.
> He/she told the truth - but it's trickle truth and you never know where it ends and you should assume the worst.
> He/she has low sex drive? Leave them! An LD never changes!


Can you blame them? These turn out to be true more often than not. I have seen some threads where many jumped to the d-word too fast but TAM is more often correct on the signs of infidelity. LDs more often do not change (read the threads). After infidelity, the truth given is usually not the whole truth.

The OP should make it clear they are not considering divorce in their thread if they don't want to hear that. That's fine if your inclination is to make it work. I personally try never to say divorce in my post because it is such a personal and painful decision I think it should be left up to the OP. In the end you will have to live with your choice not me or any poster.

What is posted here should be taken as advice not commandments. I think TAM serves its purpose well. A new poster should lurk a little before posting. He/she will get a feel of the mood of the site and he will proceed informed rather than ignorant.

Many married people I know personally are too busy keeping up the image of the perfect marriage for me to learn anything from them. With marriage possibly on the horizon, this site taught me the nitty-gritty of the union that I couldn't get in everyday life. Hats off to TAM for that.

When you look at it both extremes are equally damaging: the negative "divorce him/her now!" crowd and the "life is all roses and apple-pie" ones that refuse to see bad in a relationship.

Conclusion, I think the site is as helpful as one can hope for from the internet.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Meh. The answer to your question is Yes. Tam has been wrong on both sides. We have two divisive camps on TAM. The one Ele mentioned and the other one is the polar opposite. I've seen both get it utterly wrong and hurt the posters. People are brought up to forgive and forget so, the divorce/cheat crowd gets slammed and insulted much more than the "you can reconcile at any cost" crowd.
> 
> I do find your post a point of cherry picking. The "attaboys" are freaking rare because most OPs, especially concerning cheating, do nothing for months and sometimes the span of a year. So, some find it refreshing when someone actually says yep, I divorced, left, threw him/her out.
> 
> ...


I smiled at this because I would have put it the other way round...that TAM is actually fairly pro divorce. But I suspect you would see me as being in the "reconcile at any cost" crowd. 

In part the advice comes from values. There are pros and cons to both divorce and reconciliation. It's not like there is a clear right answer, in many cases. Either way can be wrong.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Begin again said:


> Maybe TAM doesn't always get it right. Maybe there are times that the majority is wrong. After all, there are many here who have been hurt and they seem keen to add their voice to the chorus of the betrayed.
> 
> Always keep in mind that when you have a relationship, there are at least two stories there to tell, and we will only ever hear one of them here.


People will take the advice they want to take. A thousand voices could yell the same piece of advice but if it contradicts what that person wants to do, they will ignore it. You see it all the time. If they take the advice to leave their spouse it's because they had their foot out the door already. If they take the advice to stay, it's because they never really wanted to leave, regardless of how bad the relationship makes them feel. If they take the advice to spy on their partner, it's because they were already suspicious and all they needed was an idea on how to go about it.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> TAM is most often right given the information provided by the OP is correct.
> 
> Or at least I am right. Some persons give god awful advice, and we all know who they are and what their agenda is, yet they are allowed to keep posting.


When a threads comes to an end I am always anxious to see if I gave correct advise.

It is about the logic and reasoning based on what was provided as information. That should be correct and if not, learned from.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Opinions are simply opinions, it's not about getting it right or wrong. More often than not we, TAM, are given one side to a story and thus expected to present non-expert advice with our own biases. 

As such OP should take as just that, opinions. Sometimes it will work for that person, sometimes not; it's all in the statistical averages. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Yosemite (Aug 23, 2016)

See_Listen_Love said:


> When a threads comes to an end I am always anxious to see if I gave correct advise.
> 
> It is about the logic and reasoning based on what was provided as information. That should be correct and if not, learned from.


Threads never end. Stories never really end. 

Until and unless the parties split up for good.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Wazza said:


> I smiled at this because I would have put it the other way round...that TAM is actually *fairly pro divorce.* But I suspect you would see me as being in the* "reconcile at any cost" *crowd.


 LOL. No, you are in another one of the so called crowds. Let's make sure we parse it correctly. Pro anything is not the same as "reconcile at any cost" or "divorce at any cost."



> It's not like there is a clear right answer, in many cases. Either way can be wrong.


This is why you are in the other group.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Ikaika said:


> Opinions are simply opinions, it's not about getting it right or wrong. More often than not we, TAM, are given one side to a story and thus expected to present non-expert advice with our own biases.
> 
> As such OP should take as just that, opinions. Sometimes it will work for that person, sometimes not; it's all in the statistical averages.
> 
> ...


I wholeheartedly disagree with this. One is obliged to follow the way of reason. You are dealing with human drama often here. 

Those who merely state 'opinions' should think again.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> I wholeheartedly disagree with this. One is obliged to follow the way of reason. You are dealing with human drama often here.
> 
> Those who merely state 'opinions' should think again.




Well, this is your opinion and free to express it here. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Yosemite (Aug 23, 2016)

See_Listen_Love said:


> I wholeheartedly disagree with this. One is obliged to follow the way of reason. You are dealing with human drama often here.
> 
> Those who merely state 'opinions' should think again.


Your post is a contradiction.

"Human drama" and "following reason" do not always peacefully coexist.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

See_Listen_Love said:


> I wholeheartedly disagree with this. One is obliged to follow the way of reason. You are dealing with human drama often here.
> 
> Those who merely state 'opinions' should think again.


One person's reason is another person's insanity.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Yosemite said:


> Your post is a contradiction.
> 
> "Human drama" and "following reason" do not always peacefully coexist.


Maybe you misread it:
Originally Posted by *See_Listen_Love* View Post 
_One is obliged to follow the way of reason. You are dealing with human drama often here. 

_Is say the posters need to follow reason to react on the often dramatic situation of OP's.


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## Yosemite (Aug 23, 2016)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Maybe you misread it:
> Originally Posted by *See_Listen_Love* View Post
> _One is obliged to follow the way of reason. You are dealing with human drama often here.
> 
> _Is say the posters need to follow reason to react on the often dramatic situation of OP's.


What the heck are you trying to say?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> This brings to mind a thread started by a man who complained that his wife did not want to have sex with him. Of course the TAM bandwagon told him to dump her and went on and on about how awful she was. The more info he gave, the more people posted sympathizing with him.
> 
> Then his wife figured out that he was posting here and she joined the thread. And of course she posted the rest of the story.
> 
> ...


This is an excellent point. I think was often see a sex bias here. Most of us behave decently in out own minds and have seen unreasonable behaviour from the other sex. I often make a point of asking a few more questions (e.g. weight gain, hygiene, general problems in the relationship) in the case of the example you mention. I imagine he would have ignored me and replied to the ones he wanted, just amplifying the problem.

I recall I mentioned that I was sometimes careless about closing cupboard doors after myself, but frankly did not care that much. Immediately (and understandably) I was set upon by women on this forum who came home from work, cared for their kids, cleaned and cooked and were with a husband who felt that even basic closing of doors was beneath him. In fact, my wife did not work, raise kids or make any effort with housework and then had the gall to complain that I was not closing cupboard doors. 

But, we have generally joined this board from having hard times and emotionally relate to certain posters.

There are plenty of posters on here who will not self-examine and will never learn. They come on here for reinforcement of their own world view to protect themselves against reality. They cannot be helped by anyone on here and we should accept that. There are others who will genuinely try to understand, present both sides and really be looking to understand where they are going wrong and they can be helped.

TLDR; I agree.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Yosemite said:


> What the heck are you trying to say?


 

Last effort:

1. OP's are often in a dramatic situation.
2. Other TAM posters need because of that keep their head cool and be reasonable, use arguments, search facts, be logic.

I cannot rephrase anything more clear. Sorry if that is not enough for you.


edit: Can you explain what is the reason it was not clear in the first two expressions??


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## Yosemite (Aug 23, 2016)

See_Listen_Love said:


> edit: Can you explain what is the reason it was not clear in the first two expressions??


I cant make sense out of this group of mangled words.



See_Listen_Love said:


> Is say the posters need to follow reason to react on the often dramatic situation of OP's.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Last effort:
> 
> 1. OP's are often in a dramatic situation.
> 2. Other TAM posters need because of that keep their head cool and be reasonable, use arguments, search facts, be logic.
> ...


 

What you wrote was fine. It was easy to understand. 

You think the members trying to help should keep their emotions under control because many of the members starting a thread for the first time, have been though a great deal of turmoil in their marriage. They probably visited TAM as a last resort and are desperate and very emotional. They may also be easily talked into doing something to harm their marriage further.


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