# My Wife had an affair...



## Swamp23

Well Im roughly 2 weeks into finding out my wife has been having an affair. Heres the quick details.

We've been married for 6.5 yrs, together for over 10. We have two children. This past year we've both been kind of lost, and recently she decided to have an affair (since Oct). The guy is a professional colleague from her trade shows she goes to. They talked daily and had 3 encounters at shows (once a month).

Im trying to move forward and save our marriage.. I know this was her reaction to both of us being lost in the business of life. I am having a hard time with this all, and to make matter worse she is going through her "withdrawal" of talking to him. She is depressed, angry etc.. She says she loves me, but doesnt feel that "in love spark" often enough. She feels it occasionally (which makes me feel like it still there). Is her lost feelings from me due to her withdrawal? Or should be prepared that this is just a lost cause?


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## warlock07

Is her lover married? Tell his wife.

Does her family know?

How did you find out?

Can you actually tell that this was a 3 month affair?(other than "she told me")

How did she react once you found out?

Why is divorce not an option ?

Did you talk to this guy?


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## Lovemytruck

You came to the right place...

A couple of common truths. 1. You should expose the affair to those in your circles. 2. You should push quickly for a divorce (D) in order to help her understand that she is losing you.

If you go too soft, she will drag it out, drag you through hell, and you will feel more pain than you already have felt.

Sorry you are here. Glad you will find some effective answers.


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## Swamp23

No he is not married. 
I found out by looking at texts.
Phone records confirm that it was in fact 3 months. 
she freaked out and cried and begged for forgiveness
Divorce is an option.. and Ive told her such. Any contact with him from now on is going to lead to divorce
I have not spoken to him.. I want to but Im not sure how/if it will help

Her family knows.. and they are angry... very angry.


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## Lovemytruck

Swamp23 said:


> ...She says she loves me, but doesnt feel that "in love spark" often enough. She feels it occasionally (which makes me feel like it still there).
> 
> *She has lost her "attraction" for you. She probably did not feel challenged, threatened, or she was just bored. She is telling you the truth in this regard.*
> 
> Is her lost feelings from me due to her withdrawal? Or should be prepared that this is just a lost cause?
> 
> *Yes in part. She is going against her "attraction" and the excitement she has been enjoying.
> 
> It might be a lost cause. I would say that most men would be better off emotionally to push for a D. Most do eventually.
> 
> Your challenge is to make sure you are ready for the D. Try the
> "180". Work on yourself and move ahead. She will likely follow.
> 
> In the end you will realize that most WW are simply not worth the pain they have caused.*
> 
> The Healing Heart: The 180


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## verpin zal

Swamp23 said:


> Well Im roughly 2 weeks into finding out my wife has been having an affair. Heres the quick details.
> 
> We've been married for 6.5 yrs, together for over 10. We have two children. This past year we've both been kind of lost, and recently she decided to have an affair (since Oct). The guy is a professional colleague from her trade shows she goes to. They talked daily and had 3 encounters at shows (once a month).
> 
> Im trying to move forward and save our marriage.. *I know this was her reaction to both of us being lost in the business of life.* I am having a hard time with this all, and to make matter worse she is going through her "withdrawal" of talking to him. She is depressed, angry etc.. She says she loves me, but doesnt feel that "in love spark" often enough. She feels it occasionally (which makes me feel like it still there). Is her lost feelings from me due to her withdrawal? Or should be prepared that this is just a lost cause?


Well, you didn't decide to go bang someone else to relieve some of that stress.

Why did she? May it be because your marriage is over in her head?


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## Thorburn

1. Get tested for STD's.
2. Don't make hasty decisions.
3. This is a rough road whether you D or R.
4. Withdrawal from the OM is normal, but she has to kill it.


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## warlock07

Get tested for STDs. get her tested too.

Have you started having sex with her again ?

Did you have the complete details of her affair ? How does she react when you ask her questions about her affair?

Who paid for the hotel ?

Have you considered marriage counseling ? Get inti one if you haven;t already.

Consider the possibility that she is still carrying on the affair in secret. She could be using her work phone or chat applications that use the data plan.

How did you find the texts ? Did she have the complete converstaions in her phone or did you have to dig for them ?

You know what, you could make a better first post. People read your first post and respond. The better and more informative it is, the better the responses you get on here. Dragging every bit of detail from you is a bit of work.


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## lenzi

Swamp23 said:


> I know this was her reaction to both of us being lost in the business of life.


If you do nothing else, stop making excuses for her.


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## MattMatt

lenzi said:


> If you do nothing else, stop making excuses for her.


I agree. This was her reaction to being unable to not cheat on her husband or her children. 

She needs to grow up, to be frank. She's not a teenager. She is a grown woman and needs to start acting her age.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

She has to stop working with him and have no contact whatsoever or it is a lost cause for you. It's already close to a lost cause, but their having work contact would ensure it.


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## badmemory

Swamp23 said:


> *Im trying to move forward and save our marriage.. *
> 
> I know this was her reaction to both of us being lost in the business of life. I am having a hard time with this all, and to make matter worse she is going through her "withdrawal" of talking to him. She is depressed, angry etc.. She says she loves me, but doesnt feel that "in love spark" often enough. She feels it occasionally (which makes me feel like it still there). Is her lost feelings from me due to her withdrawal? Or should be prepared that this is just a lost cause?


First, your wife is the one that has the opportunity to save the marriage. You're simply the decision maker as to whether she's doing enough to make that happen.

As long as she's putting her feelings ahead of yours; she's not doing enough. If she wants to morn over the loss of her OM she shouldn't be doing it in front of you. Don't let her distract you from what the issue is. Her cheating. If she wants that in love spark back, she damn well better be willing to demonstrate remorse first; and hope that it will come back for you before her.

At whatever point she gets over herself and begins to make you first priority - then, you can start working on the marital issues.

You are on the verge of rug sweeping her A. It seems she doesn't yet understand how it feels to lose her husband for cheating. If I were you, I would make it clear to her that D is not off the table. She has to help you overcome this. If she's not willing or capable of doing it - then you have a decision to make.


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## Swamp23

Sorry I am new to being cheated on and posting in a forum..

STDs have been tested
Work paid for hotels
Already started counseling 
I am not making excuses.. There is no reason for her to have ever done what she did.. Its despicable.. 

I have begun working on myself already.. the 1st thing I did was complete self examination.. Not only how/why this happened (my part).. but if I could continue with this marriage etc. I'm in a pretty good place for myself right now, I know what I can and wont deal with anymore. What Im struggling with is her dealing with her "withdrawal".. 

I know as much of the details as ive wanted to know.. she hasnt held anything back. I do not believe she is continuing talking to him behind my back.. but because I have lost all that trust.. i cannot be 100%. I have full access to her phone, work computer, emails etc.. 


Should I contact him.. for myself I feel i need to get closure on my end.. Tell him to never contact my wife again.. That way if they do make contact, it wasnt for my lack of effort. 

As for divorce.. its on the table, but not going to be my 1st reaction... I still do love my wife, and love my family. I have to be completely sure that this is irreparable before going down that road.


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## yeah_right

Problems in any marriage are usually 50/50 the fault of each spouse. However, an affair is 100% the fault of the WS. It is NOT the fault of the BS.

What I've seen on TAM is that it is harder to R in the case of a cheating wife. Women usually enter affairs emotionally first, so they have bonded with their AP. For many men, the affair is just a physical release with no care (that's why women have such a hard time when their H has an EA).

I would agree with everyone here that you need to play hardball. Expose to everyone. Are you really sure the OM is single, or is that just what she tells you? Find out for sure and act accordingly. No more trade shows! Ever!

File for divorce! This week. This is the slap in the head she needs to either snap out of it, or prove to you that D is the best choice. You can stop the D before it is finalized, but she needs to understand that you are serious.

Either way, the immediate goal is to kill the affair! From there, you work on healing. If you try to R, do not accept any blame for the affair. That's all on her.


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## Swamp23

I agree.. i think what makes me most angry is that she has to go through "withdrawal".. Shes making small efforts to comfort me, but our therapist has said shes going through a lot herself as well. She took a travel freeze at work, shes going through breaking her daily routine.. i just feel like im coming in at 1b on this right now.


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## LongWalk

Are you in hysterical bonding or a sexless marriage?

Trade shows... What kind? Is this multilevel marketing? If so get out.

Treat yourself with respect. Do not do any begging, pleading or otherwise exåress neediness.

Don't swear at your WW. Keep your temper.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory

Swamp23 said:


> *Should I contact him*.. for myself I feel i need to get closure on my end.. Tell him to never contact my wife again.. That way if they do make contact, it wasnt for my lack of effort.


I wouldn't contact him. That's your wife's job; in the form of a no-contact letter that you read, approve and mail yourself.

If a POSOM hear's from you, you likely won't get the truth. He'll wonder why it seems you have to resort to this - as though you can't rely on your wife to stop contact on her own. That makes you look weak to him and weak to your wife.

Expose him - Yes. Contact him - No.


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## ArmyofJuan

Swamp23 said:


> Is her lost feelings from me due to her withdrawal?


No, its from her affair. She didn't "lose" feelings for you, she redirected them.



> What Im struggling with is her dealing with her "withdrawal"..


You can fix that.

She is fixated on him because she is more afraid of losing his affection than yours. She is not afraid of losing you and we all want what we can't have.

File for a divorce or at least talk to a lawyer and get the paperwork asap (don't worry, only about 50% of people that file for a divorce actually get one. I still have my divorce filings and I'm on my 4th year of R). She needs to be deathly afraid of you leaving her before she stops thinking of the OM and starts thinking of you.

You ain't going to nice her back and she isn't going to fall back in love with you by proxy. You need to force her hand or you run the risk of her starting up the affair again. She needs to resent the OM and the A before R is even an option.

Hold her feet to the fire and that should end her "withdrawals".


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## Swamp23

Doesnt filing for divorce say that I am not looking to R? Would it help if I simply told her I spoke with an attorney and have the appropriate pieces in place?


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## warlock07

Swamp23 said:


> I agree.. i think what makes me most angry is that she has to go through "withdrawal".. Shes making small efforts to comfort me, but our therapist has said shes going through a lot herself as well. She took a travel freeze at work, shes going through breaking her daily routine.. i just feel like im coming in at 1b on this right now.


It sounds like she is doing you a favor by stopping her affair. She comes off as someone who feels entitled to her affair and something she deserves

Have you considered temporary separation? She can stay at her parent's house or somewhere nearby.

What were her reasons for the affair ?

Why should she change anything right now ? If she cannot put some effort, you are both wasting your time. If she needs time for withdrawal, you should rethink your relationship dynamic very seriously.

Unfortunately, the one with the least interest in a relationship has the most power in it. In this case, you wife.

Have you considered exposing her at work ? Would she and her lover lose their jobs ? How do you think she would react to this suggestion ?


What else is she going through ?


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## warlock07

Swamp23 said:


> Doesnt filing for divorce say that I am not looking to R? Would it help if I simply told her I spoke with an attorney and have the appropriate pieces in place?


Nope. You have to be prepared to divorce for real for you to have a chance to save this marriage. If you couldn't, you did not have a chance anyway.

Filing fir divorce sends a message that you are not scared to end this. Divorce process take a long time. You can stop the process when there is positive progress


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## tom67

she has to see that their are consequences for her actions I would file now.
It shows you have the strength to move on without her.
Start going out a few nights a week and don't tell her where make her wonder what you are doing.
Working out helps relieve stress also.


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## mahike

The withdrawal is normal he was fun, exciting, forbidden and to her you are problems, reality. You have to shake her hard to get her out this fog. You can throw her out, or file for D, either will snap her out. But if she thinks you are in hot pursuit of R then she will not do the hard work to rebuild a marriage.

Did you really find out this guy is single or did she tell you that. Cheaters lie about everything even when they have been caught.

If she is not kissing your butt and throwing sex at you like it was your honeymoon you are in not even really starting an R.

At this point I would tell her find another job, traveling in the future without you is over.


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## tom67

After you file ask her to go through mediation with you.
you can save big $$$ if you do.

hopefully this gets her out of the "fog" if not I hope you have separate checking accts.
If not do so asap!


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## crossbar

I wouldn't contact this guy. He doesn't give a damn about your marriage, what makes you think he'll give a damn about what you have to say?

You need to start doing the 180. If you don't know what that is, here's the list.

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore. 

2. No frequent phone calls. 

3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage. 

4. Don't follow her/him around the house. 

5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future. 

6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS. 

7. Don't ask for reassurances. 

8. Don't buy or give gifts. 

9. Don't schedule dates together. 

10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable. 

11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life! 

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent. 

13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy! 

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to! 

15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested. 

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them! 

17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing. 

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value. 

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation! 

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF! 

21. Don't be overly enthusiastic. 

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all! 

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more! 

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything. 

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil. 

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly. 

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write. 

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy. 

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care! 

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior. 

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!" 

32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message. 

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."


This shows her that you are capable and ready to move on without her. Shows her that you can be a fun guy to be around and that she's going to miss out. And even if she wants to leave, the 180 will help you disconnect from the marriage.


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## Will_Kane

Swamp23 said:


> Well Im roughly 2 weeks into finding out my wife has been having an affair. Heres the quick details.
> 
> We've been married for 6.5 yrs, together for over 10. We have two children. This past year we've both been kind of lost, and recently she decided to have an affair (since Oct). The guy is a professional colleague from her trade shows she goes to. They talked daily and had 3 encounters at shows (once a month).
> 
> Im trying to move forward and save our marriage.. I know this was her reaction to both of us being lost in the business of life. I am having a hard time with this all, and to make matter worse she is going through her "withdrawal" of talking to him. She is depressed, angry etc.. She says she loves me, but doesnt feel that "in love spark" often enough. She feels it occasionally (which makes me feel like it still there). Is her lost feelings from me due to her withdrawal? Or should be prepared that this is just a lost cause?


You are doing fairly well. The only place they teach this stuff is the school of hard knocks, and this crew here mostly has been through it.

You have to understand that in some situations, there is no way to save the marriage. You cannot control her, only yourself, and what you are willing to put up with and not willing to put up with.

If she still is working with him, the best you can hope for is that she still talks to him infrequently. This should not be a deal-breaker for you, if it is in fact infrequent, it is normal, just about every cheater in your wife's situation does it. She probably has talked to him to get "closure," but has not gotten it. That is normal also. True lovers, soulmates, don't get "closure" while they still are hot and heavy for each other.

Withdrawal only would be difficult if she was very "in love" with the other man. Which I guess she was, even after only three months.

Her lost feelings for you are from the length of your relationship. There is no way to have the same constant "in love spark" after 10 years together that you will have in a new relationship. If your wife had any type of experience with relationships, or if she was able to observe and learn from others' relationships, she would realize this. If she left you for other man, she would lose the "in love spark" for him, also.

Does your wife feel attracted to you sexually? I am guessing not.

Sometimes it takes losing something in order to realize how much you miss it.

What do you want out of the relationship with your wife? What specifically is she doing or not doing that you are unhappy with? Does she tell you she loves you, does she want to spend time with you, does she want to have sex with you?

If the answers to these are no, tell her you are not interested in that type of relationship. Tell her you are filing for divorce and moving on, you are sorry, but that you have certain minimum requirements for a marriage, that you are willing to try to get past her cheating, improve yourself, improve your marriage, but she has to do her share, also.

My guess, based on her behavior, is that she's still in contact with him on a fairly regular, not infrequent, basis, and that they still profess how sad they are that this is ending, how they love each other, will miss each other, etc. The affair will never die that way. I suspect there is a lot that you don't know.

I personally would not want a woman who does not want to be with me, who is pining away and depressed about not being in contact with another man. I just couldn't tolerate it, I'd rather be alone. If you feel the same, tell your wife how you feel.


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## ArmyofJuan

Swamp23 said:


> Doesnt filing for divorce say that I am not looking to R? Would it help if I simply told her I spoke with an attorney and have the appropriate pieces in place?


No, the point is she screwed up not you, she has to fix it.

Its her job to win YOU back and keep you from divorcing her since what she did is grounds for a divorce. Going straight to R is enabling behavior, you're going to "reward" her for her affair by being a better husband? What kind of message do you think that sends?

There have been many people on these forums that kick their WS to the curb on D-day and their WS always come crawling back begging for a chance to R. Once the WS starts to see what they will lose (they have to experience first hand thus the need to file) then that's when they come out of their fog.

Simply telling the WS that R is off the table doesn't stop them from trying, it MOTIVATES them to try harder.


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## Will_Kane

ArmyofJuan said:


> She is not afraid of losing you.


I suspect this is a big part of her problems. I think she would be more focused on how to fix the relationship with YOU if she thought the loss of it was imminent.


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## badmemory

Swamp23 said:


> Doesnt filing for divorce say that I am not looking to R? Would it help if I simply told her I spoke with an attorney and have the appropriate pieces in place?


You don't have to tell her right away, but at some point she needs to know this.

What it tells her, is what you explain to her.

You tell her that until you make a decision on R, you're going forward with the D until you are otherwise convinced that R is possible - and her willingness to be transparent and demonstrate remorse, will go a long way in helping you make that decision.


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## Will_Kane

Swamp23 said:


> Doesnt filing for divorce say that I am not looking to R? Would it help if I simply told her I spoke with an attorney and have the appropriate pieces in place?


I don't think you necessarily have to file for divorce, but she does have to feel like losing you is a real possibility. Your past history comes into play here, so if you have always been "old reliable" and very forgiving, that actually might work against you in this type of situation.

I would consider telling her, "if you want other man so much, go be with him, I'll help you pack your bags and put you on the plane myself. I love you, but I have no interest in being with a woman who doesn't love me."


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## Will_Kane

To the extent that you have shortcomings, that you neglected her, that you got sidetracked with work, that your relationship went off the rails somehow, you have to let her know that you recognize it and are willing to fix it, but you also have to let her know that you won't tolerate her pining away for her boyfriend who she still is in love with while she neglects you and your needs.


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## Will_Kane

Is he married or does he have a girlfriend and, if so, have you exposed it to the other man's girlfriend or wife? If not, why not?


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## adriana

Swamp23 said:


> Doesnt filing for divorce say that I am not looking to R? *Would it help if I simply told her I spoke with an attorney and have the appropriate pieces in place?*



Nope, words are only words. Actions always speak lauder and by filing for a divorce you would show her that you really mean business. Women like decisive men.


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## tom67

adriana said:


> Nope, words are only words. Actions always speak lauder and by filing for a divorce you would show her that you really mean business. Women like decisive men.


If you don't want to file I would at least pack her stuff up and highly encourage her to move in with her boyfriend.
You can't nice her out of this. Sorry there are two kids in the equation but this is her fault not yours.


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## happyman64

Swamp

You are getting good suggestions.

And what your wife is going through is normal but it sucks to the BS that she is feeling the "loss"of her BF.

But in addition to consequences for her I would do one better.

I would confront the OM. I would do it without your wifes knowledge.

I would surprise the OM at work and I would make sure his office knew what a scumbag he really is.

Be creative. That is how you show someone that you are fighting for your family.

Put him up on cheaterville and send the link to his company.

Actions speak louder than words.

HM


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## workindad

Swamp23 said:


> I have begun working on myself already.. the 1st thing I did was complete self examination.. Not only how/why this happened (my part).. but if I could continue with this marriage etc. I'm in a pretty good place for myself right now, I know what I can and wont deal with anymore.
> 
> *This is good. However, understand that while you were responsible for 50% of the state of your marriage. Her decision to cheat is 100% on her. Do not allow her to blame shift responsibility for her actions to you.*
> 
> 
> 
> As for divorce.. its on the table, but not going to be my 1st reaction... I still do love my wife, and love my family. I have to be completely sure that this is irreparable before going down that road.


Good, you will have zero luck nicing her out of an affair. How certain are you that over boy is unattached? Do not believe your wife, if that information comes from her.


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## workindad

Also, she cheated because she wanted to.

Why she wanted to may be up for discussion, but make no mistake. She wanted to cheat, it was not an accident.


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## LongWalk

Cheaterville is good. If you write an entry, you can run a draft by us here. Make it short and factual.


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## 6301

Swamp23 said:


> I am having a hard time with this all, and to make matter worse she is going through her "withdrawal" of talking to him. She is depressed, angry etc.. She says she loves me, but doesnt feel that "in love spark" often enough. She feels it occasionally (which makes me feel like it still there). Is her lost feelings from me due to her withdrawal? Or should be prepared that this is just a lost cause?


 Comes down to this. You caught her having an affair and you had the choice to keep her around hoping that she would snap out of her fog, show remorse and prove to you that she loves you and regain your trust, or the other choice would be to throw her ass out and file.

You decided to give her the chance and if you feel that she's not doing what needs to be done to restore your marriage and she's depressed and angry then YOU have to sit her down and tell her that your sick of her attitude and anger. 

Let her know in the harshest terms that if there's anyone who should be pissed off and depressed it's you because she couldn't keep her legs together and she cheated on you. Let her know that if she wants to continue down this road, you'll be more than happy to give her more anger and depression when she finds her possessions out in the driveway. Let her know that rather than her having anger issues and feeling depressed she should be feeling guilt and remorse and you'll take care of the anger and depression.

She doesn't have the right to feel that way. She cheated. She lied and because of it your the one suffering for it and if she can't understand that then tell her to get a lawyer and a new place to live.


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## See_Listen_Love

Swamp23 said:


> I agree.. i think what makes me most angry is that she has to go through "withdrawal".. Shes making small efforts to comfort me, but our therapist has said shes going through a lot herself as well. She took a travel freeze at work, shes going through breaking her daily routine.. i just feel like im coming in at 1b on this right now.


Stop thinking Swamp, 

Your situation is SNAFU, Situation Normal, All F**ked Up.

That is good, relatively. Only your thinking is endangering your position now.

Just follow the advice given!


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## poida

Hi Swamp,
When I first came here, I thought most of the advice was pretty brutal and more aggressive than I would have applied to the situation, but with time having passed, I wished I had taken a more active approach to the situation.
I wish I had enacted the 180 the VERY FIRST DAY I found out. The earlier you enact the 180, the more effective it is. 
Unfortunately, I was a push over, wishy washy and it has put me back 3 months and with a more difficult situation as a result.
Only after I kicked her out of home, and started selling stuff for complete separation did I get the first sign of interest.
Don't do what I do. Enact 180 ASAP. If you feel really adamant about this being non-negotiable, hand over the papers.
Get yourself a good counsellor and work on yourself.
Good luck.


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## illwill

She did not misdirect her feelings for you to the om. She cheated because she had no respect for you, and without that there can be no love.

If a wayward seeing your pain on dday is not enough to make her see the om as a tool of destruction, then she aint gonna get there on her own later. 

If she felt youd divorce her, reality would hit and maybe make her stop lusting after the om.

Fog talk on here is one of the major reasons people fail as they attempt to reconcile.

Take her back accepting she knew what she was doing.

And your fear is one of the major reasons she felt she could cheat.


----------



## LongWalk

Read RoadScholar's thread. He was in 5 months of sexless reconcilation. When he was ready to divorce his wanted to have sex again. She started showing remorse.


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## VFW

Swamp, first I am sorry that you find yourself in this situation. You are correct you do not deserve this, nor did you do anything that caused her to act as she has acted. You are 50% responsible for the issues in the marriage, but none of those MADE her have an affair. She chose to have an affair for her own selfish reasons.

She tells you she loves you but is not in love with you, Hogwash. That is double speak that folks use to soften the blow of what they are really saying. She likes you as an individual, she respects you as a person and or father, but that is a far cry from love that a wife has for her husband. You feel like you are plan B, because that is where she put you. She is sorry that you are hurting, but she is not sorry that she had the affair, that is why she is pining after the OM. The 180 approach is not designed to punish her, but to protect you and show her you will survive without her if necessary, while she continues to mourn the loss of the OM. 

Recommend that you contact an attorney, you don't have to file, but you need to be prepared. You also need to plan for what you want to do if reconciliation is not successful. Having a plan and acting quickly and decisively will benefit you greatly (house, finances, custody, ect). If you have not already done so, I recommend that you expose the affair to close friends and family. This may be embarrassing to her, but it is for accountability purposes. She seems to have a sense of entitlement, exposure takes a bit of the luster off of the affair. The affair has to be seen not as a fantasy for which she is entitled to and continue to seek, but as an act of hurtful and shameful behavior to her. Then she will want to forget about the OM.

Not all counselors abide by this principle and say you should be forgiving. I am all for forgiveness, but it starts with true repentance for the things we have done wrong. Only after she is truly understands the pain that she has caused can you start to forgive.


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## RyanBingham

ArmyofJuan said:


> No, the point is she screwed up not you, she has to fix it.
> 
> Its her job to win YOU back and keep you from divorcing her since what she did is grounds for a divorce. *Going straight to R is enabling behavior, you're going to "reward" her for her affair by being a better husband? What kind of message do you think that sends?*


Let that sink in a bit. she is still in the fog and is still focused on the OM in her "withdrawal". How will going to R work when his shadow is following her around? The advice here is golden... Snap her back into reality and her feelings of withdrawal will shift to fear of losing you. 

Hope you follow the sound advice here.


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## sinnister

Showing you her "withdrawl" symptoms is kicking you while you're down.

At the very least she should suck it up and put on a brave face while you're around and try like hell to win you back and show you that you mean everythign to her.

Withdrawl shows you that you are nothing but a plan B.

You have to decide if you are okay with that.


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## adriana

LongWalk said:


> Read RoadScholar's thread. He was in 5 months of sexless reconcilation. When he was ready to divorce his wanted to have sex again. She started showing remorse.


LongWalk, I'm familiar with the thread you mentioned and I'd say that _the jury is still out_. So far it all has been on her terms and doesn't look to me like any kind of healthy reconciliation. But the OP, RoadScholar, appears so desperate that he is just sucking up whatever he can get from her. My guess is that his wife is just trying to buy herself some time to regroup and, when her infidelity isn't so fresh anymore, she will very seriously reexamine her options.

But I absolutely agree with you that filing for a divorce is the best option for Swamp23 at this moment. No question about that.


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## tom67

adriana said:


> LongWalk, I'm familiar with the thread you mentioned and I'd say that _the jury is still out_. So far it all has been on her terms and doesn't look to me like any kind of healthy reconciliation. But the OP, RoadScholar, appears so desperate that he is just sucking up whatever he can get from her. My guess is that his wife is just trying to buy herself some time to regroup and, when her infidelity isn't so fresh anymore, she will very seriously reexamine her options.
> 
> But I absolutely agree with you that filing for a divorce is the best option for Swamp23 at this moment. No question about that.


I agree that's about the only chance he has at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## illwill

She acted like she was faithful, she better start acting like she does not miss the om.


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## Thorburn

I have my wife back, but the final straw for her was she knew that I was serious about D. I started the process, wrote her a letter basically stating that out of love I am divorsing you. I came to a point of where I was done with the marriage.

Once we started real genuine R, she had withdrawals as well. It was like a punch in the gut everytime I asked her, "if she still had feelings for the guy?", and she would say "yes". But the withdrawal, grief, or whatever you want to call it, it typical in the WS when their A's end. S*cks for us BS'ers but I will tell you as someone who has gone through it, it is normal. It will bug you and eat you up, but it is normal. I would say that I appreciated my wife's honesty about her feelings, as much as it hurt.


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## badmemory

My WW also exhibited some mourning of the OM behavior after Dday. I wasn't sure how to deal with it - so I more or less ignored it and never called her out on it. I so much regret that now.

It's like a lot of the other mistakes I made at the time. We're in R despite them, but the consequences to me years later are the regrets and "what if's". The wondering if she would have passed those harsher tests of her remorse.


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## LongWalk

In short TAM does not like the idea of a mild withdrawal from love for OM/OW. The more abrupt and traumatic the more likely the wayward is to disassociate the affair with pleasure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## adriana

badmemory said:


> My WW also exhibited some mourning of the OM behavior after Dday. I wasn't sure how to deal with it - so I more or less ignored it and never called her out on it. I so much regret that now.
> 
> It's like a lot of the other mistakes I made at the time. We're in R despite them, but the consequences to me years later are the regrets and "what if's". The wondering if she would have passed those harsher tests of her remorse.


I've read your _"Could it get worse than this?"_ tread. It was unbearable to read and I cannot comprehend that you actually decided to reconcile with your wife. I just cannot.


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## badmemory

adriana said:


> I've read your _"Could it get worse than this?"_ tread. It was unbearable to read and I cannot comprehend that you actually decided to reconcile with your wife. I just cannot.


Sometimes I can't believe it myself. But as bad as her betrayal was, she's been that remorseful since then. 

For some BS's, that might not be enough. I completely understand.


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## harrybrown

I think you need a new counselor. 

Has your counselor ever experienced the knife in the back betrayal? the lies the cheating the deception?


Get a new counselor that knows what a BS goes thru.

Man up.


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## Horizon

badmemory said:


> I wouldn't contact him. That's your wife's job; in the form of a no-contact letter that you read, approve and mail yourself.
> 
> If a POSOM hear's from you, you likely won't get the truth. He'll wonder why it seems you have to resort to this - as though you can't rely on your wife to stop contact on her own. That makes you look weak to him and weak to your wife.
> 
> Expose him - Yes. Contact him - No.


Can't entirely agree with this bm. When I contacted the low life, scumbag POSOM who entered my world he collapsed like a deck of cards. He told me many things I was never told by my WS - where when and what; told me a heap of stuff. My WS did not refute any of it.

I demanded he break any contact with her and I let him know I would be paying him a visit. He hid from me - had his work colleagues running defence. Never actually met him. My WS mourned the loss even though she thinks I don't know that - I never brought it up. It explained a lot of her early post DDay anger.

Though I will concede that there is no guarantee. Even though he [email protected] his pants he still tried contact late last year via her business profile. I went straight to his wife again and also complained to the worldwide head of the company who employs him.

I needed to assert myself in this situation. A big part of this emasculation is that some punter has stormed the castle and had suffered no consequences. It is an awful humiliation. Non violent intimidation is the very least that needs to happen to a POS like this. 

But pick your mark. If it had been some brick sh!thouse sized Islander i would have had to reconsider my tactics.


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## illwill

Ill never understand how you guys stay with these wives while openly mourning the om. 

Your pain was not enough to make her associate that pain with him? Thus only seeing him as a tool she used to destroy you?

The weight loss, nightmares, triggers, and PTSD that they see from you is not enough?

I guess i kind of respect you are able to stay regardless. 

Personally, I think its one more slap in the face. And it poses the question, of how deep is thier love for you, if those factors dont break the om's spell.


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## badmemory

Horizon said:


> Can't entirely agree with this bm. When I contacted the low life, scumbag POSOM who entered my world he collapsed like a deck of cards. He old me many things I was never told by my WS - where when and what; told me a heap of stuff. My WS did not refute any of it.
> 
> I demanded he break any contact with her and I let him know I would be paying him a visit. He hid from me - had his work colleagues running defence. Never actually met him. My WS mourned the loss even though she thinks I don't know that - I never brought it up. It explained a lot of her early post DDay anger.
> 
> Though I will concede that there is no guarantee. Even though he [email protected] his pants he still tried contact late last year via her business profile. I went straight to his wife again and also complained to the worldwide head of the company who employs him.
> 
> I needed to assert myself in this situation. A big part of this emasculation is that some punter has stormed the castle and had suffered no consequences. It is an awful humiliation. Non violent intimidation is the very least that needs to happen to a POS like this.
> 
> But pick your mark. If it had been some brick sh!thouse sized Islander i would have had to reconsider my tactics.


I hear you Horizon. Glad it worked for you.


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## adriana

badmemory said:


> Sometimes I can't believe it myself. But as bad as her betrayal was, she's been that remorseful since then.
> 
> For some BS's, that might not be enough. I completely understand.


Badmemory, if it's working for you then it's fine with me. 

I guess for me the main obstacle to reconciliation would be that I don't believe in any "genuine" remorse after the affair. Most married cheaters don't want to intentionally hurt their spouses but, ultimately, it doesn't stop them from giving themselves the green light to have an affair. How much is their "genuine" remorse really worth if continuing their affair is no longer an option? After all, they didn't care all that much when the cake was still on the table.


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## badmemory

adriana said:


> Badmemory, if it's working for you then it's fine with me.
> 
> I guess for me the main obstacle to reconciliation would be that I don't believe in any "genuine" remorse after the affair. Most married cheaters don't want to intentionally hurt their spouses but, ultimately, it doesn't stop them from giving themselves the green light to have an affair. How much is their "genuine" remorse really worth if continuing their affair is no longer an option? After all, they didn't care all that much when the cake was still on the table.


Swamp,

I don't want to hijack your thread, but perhaps my response to adriana will be pertinent to your situation.

All BS's have to deal with the doubts about whether their WS's remorse is genuine, that is if they attempt R. But one thing that does make a difference, is consistency over time.

No WS can exhibit perfect remorse. But if you've been married long enough, you should have a pretty good idea as to whether they're doing their best to do the heavy lifting, and if they're displaying genuine love and affection. For me, I'm always vigilant to look for lapses. Perhaps too much so, but that's my right as a BS. I think my wife understands this. I hope so, because I've told her as much.

Swamp, sometimes you have to educate your WS on what a remorseful spouse looks like. You let her know for instance, that open displays of her pining for her OM, is not acceptable to you. And guess what? She damn sure better listen to what you're telling her and respond accordingly - because though you've given her the gift of "attempted" R, you can always change your mind.


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## Swamp23

Just to give everyone a heads up.. I layed down the story two days ago. I told her its been enough time, either we are going to make this work, or she needs to move out. I told her I had contacted the appropriate parties and she was shocked. I went away from my "nice guy" route, and i must say.. It did lead to a change. Now my fear is this change isn't "real".. and that its not a genuine. 

I was also contacted by an old girlfriend, whom I will say is very good looking, and single. that may have played a role in this.. maybe her seeing that someone does want me.. someone attractive too.

In the end I have tons of issues to work on myself, this i know.. But I have decided that if shes not with me.. then shes against me. No more mister nice guy!


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## tom67

Swamp23 said:


> Just to give everyone a heads up.. I layed down the story two days ago. I told her its been enough time, either we are going to make this work, or she needs to move out. I told her I had contacted the appropriate parties and she was shocked. I went away from my "nice guy" route, and i must say.. It did lead to a change. Now my fear is this change isn't "real".. and that its not a genuine.
> 
> I was also contacted by an old girlfriend, whom I will say is very good looking, and single. that may have played a role in this.. maybe her seeing that someone does want me.. someone attractive too.
> 
> In the end I have tons of issues to work on myself, this i know.. But I have decided that if shes not with me.. then shes against me. No more mister nice guy!


Yes swamp another woman showing interest in you often does make a difference and shows that you are desirable.
Take the lead work on you and watch her actions, not her words.
This may have woken her up time will tell.


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## cool12

what is she willing to change? 
are your doubts about her sincerity based on anything concrete or just fear?


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## Swamp23

I just find it completely unrealistic for her to go from "withdrawal" to focusing on me and us in one day.. so fear/logic is whats creating this. 

she has started to show more attention to me.. more physical emotion, acting more like her old self (before the last 3.5 months).. I dont know if shes just putting on a facade or if shes really trying to move on and this is her way of doing it. I feel like if she is putting on a facade, its just a continuation of the last 3.5 months of lying and betrayal. If she isnt ready to move on, then so be it.. I am and lifes tough.. dont ****ing pretend to be something you arent.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

It's gone from she's leaving you to she's now losing you.

If this is the only reason, you'll notice her start to swing back towards leaving again in time.

It would be nice if she's genuine though.


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## CASE_Sensitive

Do you think it's coincidence your ex contacted you during this period? Are you in a small town where word gets around?


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## Machiavelli

Swamp23 said:


> I just find it completely unrealistic for her to go from "withdrawal" to focusing on me and us in one day.. so fear/logic is whats creating this.
> 
> she has started to show more attention to me.. more physical emotion, acting more like her old self (before the last 3.5 months).. I dont know if shes just putting on a facade or if shes really trying to move on and this is her way of doing it. I feel like if she is putting on a facade, its just a continuation of the last 3.5 months of lying and betrayal. If she isnt ready to move on, then so be it.. I am and lifes tough.. dont ****ing pretend to be something you arent.


It will be an up and down process. Right now you're starting to display some so-called "alpha traits." Specifically, that you can get another woman on her back in five minutes. This, counterintuitively, makes you very attractive to your wife. Women are herd animals and they rate the bucks and decide which bucks are attractive by consensus. That's why when you were single they would all need to run to the powder room together, so they could rate the boys. Science, specifically the Pareto Principle, suggests that women are sexually attracted to the top 20% of men. Modern empirical evidence suggests it more like the top 10%. This is why a guy needs to always have a girl or two sniffing around him. Preferably in front of the wife.

Keep The Sixteen Commandments. Google em if you don't know them. They're originally intended for single guys, but women don't stop responding to them just because they get married.


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## Plan 9 from OS

Machiavelli said:


> It will be an up and down process. Right now you're starting to display some so-called "alpha traits." Specifically, that you can get another woman on her back in five minutes. This, counterintuitively, makes you very attractive to your wife. Women are herd animals and they rate the bucks and decide which bucks are attractive by consensus. That's why when you were single they would all need to run to the powder room together, so they could rate the boys. Science, specifically the Pareto Principle, suggests that women are sexually attracted to the top 20% of men. Modern empirical evidence suggests it more like the top 10%. This is why a guy needs to always have a girl or two sniffing around him. Preferably in front of the wife.
> 
> Keep The Sixteen Commandments. Google em if you don't know them. They're originally intended for single guys, but women don't stop responding to them just because they get married.


Is this what you're referring to? The 16 Commandments of Poon | Wall Street Oasis. LOL, if I did all of that with my wife she'd kill me. :rofl: Great advice if you want to be a PUA, but not quite the best approach if you want to find that best mate to spend the rest of your life with.

Honestly, the 2/3rds game is just that - a game. Great if you are aspiring to be a PUA and are looking to get a girl intrigued by the "bad boy" vibe. I don't think it's the best approach for all marriages. Maybe some married women eat this stuff up still, but not the one I'm married to.

Sorry for the thread jack.


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## ArmyofJuan

Swamp23 said:


> I just find it completely unrealistic for her to go from "withdrawal" to focusing on me and us in one day.. so fear/logic is whats creating this.
> 
> she has started to show more attention to me.. more physical emotion, acting more like her old self (before the last 3.5 months).. I dont know if shes just putting on a facade or if shes really trying to move on and this is her way of doing it. I feel like if she is putting on a facade, its just a continuation of the last 3.5 months of lying and betrayal. If she isnt ready to move on, then so be it.. I am and lifes tough.. dont ****ing pretend to be something you arent.


Yup.

If you were to go back to being the nice guy she would instantly go back to her old self as well. Right now she is in panic mode and reacting as such. This is very common and I've seen more than one person instantly claim victory then a week later be right back here at square one.

For any of this to have a lasting effect you have to keep up this dynamic for months, 3-6 months at least before you even think about going soft on her. That's about how long it takes for the brain to hardware itself for these new emotions. Only time will tell if its real of just trying to get control back again. Don't trust anything you hear and only half of what you see.

Now that you know you may have other options you may want to ask yourself if you really want to R. As I said before, people don't regret divorcing a cheating spouse but many have regretting giving them a second chance.


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## tom67

ArmyofJuan said:


> Yup.
> 
> If you were to go back to being the nice guy she would instantly go back to her old self as well. Right now she is in panic mode and reacting as such. This is very common and I've seen more than one person instantly claim victory then a week later be right back here at square one.
> 
> For any of this to have a lasting effect you have to keep up this dynamic for months, 3-6 months at least before you even think about going soft on her. That's about how long it takes for the brain to hardware itself for these new emotions. Only time will tell if its real of just trying to get control back again. Don't trust anything you hear and only half of what you see.
> 
> Now that you know you may have other options you may want to ask yourself if you really want to R. As I said before, people don't regret divorcing a cheating spouse but many have regretting giving them a second chance.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## ArmyofJuan

oops, double posted


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## Machiavelli

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Is this what you're referring to? The 16 Commandments of Poon | Wall Street Oasis. LOL, if I did all of that with my wife she'd kill me. :rofl: Great advice if you want to be a PUA, but not quite the best approach if you want to find that best mate to spend the rest of your life with.
> 
> Honestly, the 2/3rds game is just that - a game. Great if you are aspiring to be a PUA and are looking to get a girl intrigued by the "bad boy" vibe. I don't think it's the best approach for all marriages. Maybe some married women eat this stuff up still, but not the one I'm married to.
> 
> Sorry for the thread jack.


In marriage, things need to be moderated for a faithful wife, but the underlying concepts of female attraction remain. In the case of an adulteress that a guy, for some reason, wants to win back? Full court press.


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## Will_Kane

Swamp23 said:


> I just find it completely unrealistic for her to go from "withdrawal" to focusing on me and us in one day.. so fear/logic is whats creating this.
> 
> she has started to show more attention to me.. more physical emotion, acting more like her old self (before the last 3.5 months).. I dont know if shes just putting on a facade or if shes really trying to move on and this is her way of doing it. I feel like if she is putting on a facade, its just a continuation of the last 3.5 months of lying and betrayal. If she isnt ready to move on, then so be it.. I am and lifes tough.. dont ****ing pretend to be something you arent.


She's afraid of losing you now, that's the only change. She still is probably continuing the affair as well.

She didn't respect you when you were too understanding. If you go to cheater forums you will see how disgusted they often are with their loyal husbands and wonder what ever happened to the man with balls they thought they married who would never put up with their shlt.

She will be testing you to see how much she can get away with based on your past understanding behavior. If I am reading her right that's what you can expect next.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Will_Kane said:


> She's afraid of losing you now, that's the only change. She still is probably continuing the affair as well.
> 
> She didn't respect you when you were too understanding. If you go to cheater forums you will see how disgusted they often are with their loyal husbands and wonder what ever happened to the man with balls they thought they married who would never put up with their shlt.
> 
> She will be testing you to see how much she can get away with based on your past understanding behavior. If I am reading her right that's what you can expect next.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dittoes, and you need to get busy, buy some vars and find out who she is talking to and what she really thinks. You may find out she is as genuine as can be ans ashamed of herself. She surely talks to people in her car, at home and work.

A pen var works great if they use work place equipment to communicate with their lover.

Everyone can get honest in their car and put a had at home where she will make calls when you are not around.

But keep in mind, apparently, you are in control now. Don't look suspicious, go with it, then investigate the sh!t out of her to see if its real or false R.

Alomost all WW have contact after DDay. Be alert.


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## Chaparral

Btw, finding out how she is talking to friends and family is as enlightening as anything else.

It isn't uncommon to find out how they think they have messed everything up. Its also common to find out what their real plans are.

You are the leader of your family, its on you to do whatever you have to fulfil that job, the protection of your family.

If you want to throw a wrench in OM's life,do contact him, give him a link to his cheaterville.com link. Let him put that in his fantasy pipe and smoke it.


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## the guy

The OM wants no part of this and bailed....left your your old lady high and dry.

If the POS wanted your old she wouldn't be kissing your @ss she would be kissing his.

If you start laying down some heavy consequences and she picks them up well you have a shot but if she starts giving you crap up these consequences then you know she isn't being real.

She may really want this marriage if she finds her self bent over the bed getting her butt spanked red!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Swamp23

Hahaha.. I actually did contact him yesterday. I needed it for me to find out what kind of guy he was. what I found out is he is a pathetic excuse for a man. He was cheated on by his wife, they were going through a divorce, and he decided to bang my wife. He's exactly like a lot of my friends who are single.. he knows how to manipulate women. I told my wife I talked to him, and she got mad.. asked why... I didnt want to be mean, but she kept pushing. I snapped, and told her 
" I wanted to see what kind of guy he was. And I found out that you chose a piece of **** over me. You got Joe'd (one of my buddies she knows who uses this exact method).. he had no plan of doing anything.. I told him part of me wants you guys to go work it out.. his reponse.. no you are doing the right thing to work on your family.. The guy has no interest in a future with you, you were just some fun to him.. You are a fun person, and the sex was just a bonus. he got the best parts.. someone to talk to about his problems, flirt with.. and then bang a few times. he had no real life interest in you.. you can have him if you want him.. I know I am better than him, and this proved it. If you want to leave me for a two bit POS then go ahead.. I care about you enough for you to be happy... If you dont.. then you better decide you are all in with me and our family. No more sulking, im not taking you sulking over a POS like him and ruining my day/family. You need to think about this and decide.. I want an answer when i get home, or this is over. Im better than this."

Needless to say she was mad.. she was mad that she felt "used/cheap".. I told her well.. "wtf do you think i feel everyday since I found this out.. the truth F-ing hurts doesnt it. You can be mad at me for telling it how it is.. or you can be mad at him because thats how it is. If you believe it was more, then fine with me.. Then it was.. You can have him and the "more" you think it is."

I went down a bad spot in my head privately, and didnt show it to her.. But as of now things have gotten better again. Hopefully the reality check of her being his little toy vs whatever she thought is was sunk/sinks in. 

Either way im ****ing ready to move on, and get this **** over my life. If that means with her because she truly wants to be here and is remorseful then great.. if not Ill be the best father I can be, and go start dating some of these girls I know i could date/bang. 

The truth is the girls who I have had a chance to cheat on my wife with.. most are better looking, one looks like a Barbie doll (and ive know her for 15yrs and she always thought we would get married).. Im f-ing good no matter what happens.. Will it hurt, absolutely.. will I get over it.. Absolutely.. Will i get to have some fun with chicks.. HELL YEA!

Im praying this works out well, but its going to be a long road to trusting her again, and being able to move on. If she cant/doesnt want to deal with some of my emotional swings.. then so be it.. I need to heal the way I have to.

thanks to everyone on this forum though.. punching me in the face and calling me soft and being too nice was exactly what I needed. I was letting her off easy.. too easy.. This ****s real, and I need to be real with my emotions.. not be the nice guy I have always been. 

Also joining an MMA gym to get my anger/aggression out.. also to possible kick this POS's ass if I see him.. which i may if I go to meeting she has to go to in April where she admitted he'd be there. Time to get back to the aggressive football player I was/am.. F- this guy who thinks he can walk into a family and try and break it.. Someone needs to teach him a lesson.


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## Lovemytruck

Swamp,

You are saying the right things. It is damn hard, but you are doing very well for your situation.


----------



## workindad

I hope her remorse is real. 

I suspect that if you go back to nice guy behavior she will be banging him or another om very quickly. 

Stay firm. Also remember that she either gets on board 110% And is grateful for the chance to r or you leave her in the dust. 

Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Swamp23

If shes not 110% on board Im out.. I dont deserve to be anyones plan B.. Im a good dude.. no a great dude.. She wants to mess around and play games.. Ill bounce. Im done with games. 

Im being honest with her about everything.. she asked about the girl who contacted me the other day.. She looked her up on facebook and say that shes skinny and "hot".. Asked about how much I talk to her etc.

She asked when else i could have cheated on her.. and I told her the times.. She asked why I didnt. I said " no matter how bad we were.. you were still my wife. I made a commitment to you, and i wont break that".. I think that made her feel tiny.. 

I have access to everything I can of hers (FB, Skype, Phone, personal email, phone records etc.) to see if shes contacting him. The only thing I have no control of is her work email (which i can check on her phone.. but she can of course delete emails which wont show up).. and her work phone. So I have no clue if shes still in contact with him via those routes. But she knows and I know.. if i find out she is.. Thats the nail in the coffin.. thats the end no negotiations.


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## workindad

Do you have vars in place
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Swamp23

Whats VARS?


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## TheFlood117

Still should file and kick her out. But whatever works for you. Good luck. 

Right now, your just giving in without consequences. Tangible one's at least. 

You should file for D. Kick her to the curb and start bangin' that other chick. 

Then see if she wants a piece. 

Then you'll know if she really loves you and values you as a man and person. 

Just my 2 cents tho.


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## tom67

Swamp23 said:


> Whats VARS?


voice activated recorders.


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## TheFlood117

tom67 said:


> voice activated recorders.


Your best and sometimes "worst" friend. Just don't listen to them alone or even first. Cause, well things might get rough.


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## Swamp23

Voice activate recorders? Like put it on her cell phone, so i can hear all her calls even on her work phone?


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## tom67

Swamp23 said:


> Voice activate recorders? Like put it on her cell phone, so i can hear all her calls even on her work phone?


One in her car and one or two in the house.

here is a good one
Amazon.com: Sony Digital Flash Voice Recorder (ICD-PX312): Electronics


----------



## Swamp23

Ah **** son.. she wants to go to this meeting in april where he will be and will be part of their group.. she asked what she should do. I said you have two options.

1) dont go
2) Go and I go with you

She's not happy with either option.. She wants me to already trust her.. you ****ing kidding me.. 

I said do what you want, if you decide you are going by yourself, your stuff wont be here you when you return. 

The weekend I found out she was having an EA (which i thought was all it was until that tuesday).. she was planning on still going on a business trip where he would be.. And she was still planning on getting a ride from one city to the other with him.. Man.. she is a piece of work I swear.


----------



## TheFlood117

Swamp23 said:


> Voice activate recorders? Like put it on her cell phone, so i can hear all her calls even on her work phone?



Yeah, kind of. That's more like a keylogger I think, the way you explain is kinda wrong but you get the jest. 

VAR's are devices that activate based on sound and stuff. Here's a few good ones. 

Also their is a user named weightlifter that is pretty much an expert on VARs and recon. 

Sony Digital Voice Recorder ICDPX333 - Best Buy


140hr Slim Voice Activated Recorder Pen MQ77N - Spy Voice Recorder, Audio Pen

So what you do here is basically get some heavey velcro and put one VAR under the seat in her car or dash. Then put another in the bathroom, bedroom and living room. The pen VAR is a sleek and very passive way of recon. Perhaps in a study room or even her office. 

That's really basically the gig. But you should check out weightlifter stuff for specifics.


Good luck.


----------



## yeah_right

Swamp23 said:


> I said you have two options.
> 
> 1) dont go
> 2) Go and I go with you


The correct options are
1) don't go


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## tom67

yeah_right said:


> The correct options are
> 1) don't go


Talk about delusional she wants you to trust her?:wtf::wtf:


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## Swamp23

I want to go.. i want to make him and her uncomfortable. If she has to go for work, then she has to go. 

I also slightly want to punch him in his F-ing nose.. :smthumbup:


----------



## Swamp23

tom67 said:


> Talk about delusional she wants you to trust her?:wtf::wtf:


She is one of those people who thinks people can just move on quickly from things.. even though she cant.

I feel like i should go bang some chick and see how much she loves me.. could she deal with this? would she make it work? 

But then i remember.. i dont ever want to stoop to her/his level.. If i do, im just as bad as them. Im a better person than that.


----------



## yeah_right

Swamp23 said:


> I want to go.. i want to make him and her uncomfortable. If she has to go for work, then she has to go.
> 
> I also slightly want to punch him in his F-ing nose.. :smthumbup:


No. She needs to NEVER EVER EVER EVER be around him again. With or without you. No contact. Until she dies. End of story.


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## workindad

You need to buy some vars. Cheap and effective low tech. Weightlifter has some great how to instructions posted on this site.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

Swamp23 said:


> I want to go.. i want to make him and her uncomfortable. If she has to go for work, then she has to go.
> 
> I also slightly want to punch him in his F-ing nose.. :smthumbup:


Going at all shouldn't be an option. If she were truly serious about making your marriage work, she'd already be looking for another job.


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## Swamp23

You guys are right.. She doesnt work with the guy, she just sees him at shows and some industry meetings.

But you are right, she shouldnt go at all.. And I need to get her to start looking into another line of work.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Swamp23 said:


> Ah **** son.. she wants to go to this meeting in april where he will be and will be part of their group.. she asked what she should do. I said you have two options.
> 
> 1) dont go
> 2) Go and I go with you
> 
> She's not happy with either option.. She wants me to already trust her.. you ****ing kidding me..
> 
> I said do what you want, if you decide you are going by yourself, your stuff wont be here you when you return.
> 
> The weekend I found out she was having an EA (which i thought was all it was until that tuesday).. she was planning on still going on a business trip where he would be.. And she was still planning on getting a ride from one city to the other with him.. Man.. she is a piece of work I swear.


So after everything...she just doesn't get it...or maybe she does.


Do you get it is the question? Stop looking at her actions for a minute and look at her decision making. She wanted to go off somewhere and be at the same place as the OM alone......really?


----------



## WyshIknew

Swamp23 said:


> Hahaha.. I actually did contact him yesterday. I needed it for me to find out what kind of guy he was.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> He was cheated on by his wife, they were going through a divorce, and he decided to bang my wife.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I told him part of me wants you guys to go work it out.. his reponse.. no you are doing the right thing to work on your family..



So in your conversation what did he say?

Was this some kind of effed up revenge?

"Some guy porked my wife so I'll pork someone elses wife to make me feel better"?


----------



## warlock07

Swamp23 said:


> If shes not 110% on board Im out.. I dont deserve to be anyones plan B.. Im a good dude.. no a great dude.. She wants to mess around and play games.. Ill bounce. Im done with games.
> 
> Im being honest with her about everything.. she asked about the girl who contacted me the other day.. She looked her up on facebook and say that shes skinny and "hot".. Asked about how much I talk to her etc.
> 
> She asked when else i could have cheated on her.. and I told her the times.. She asked why I didnt. I said " no matter how bad we were.. you were still my wife. I made a commitment to you, and i wont break that".. I think that made her feel tiny..
> 
> I have access to everything I can of hers (FB, Skype, Phone, personal email, phone records etc.) to see if shes contacting him. The only thing I have no control of is her work email (which i can check on her phone.. but she can of course delete emails which wont show up).. and her work phone. So I have no clue if shes still in contact with him via those routes. But she knows and I know.. if i find out she is.. Thats the nail in the coffin.. thats the end no negotiations.



Why is the ball in her court ?

All this looks like you are trying to manipulate her to be back with you. I wouldn't be surprised if she reaches the same conclusion.(even though that probably isn't your intention). Why are you showing her who you talk to ? Why does it matter to her ? Not trying to kick a man who is down but actions like that reek of desperation. Just a "who I talk to is none of your business" would have been better for you


----------



## warlock07

Swamp23 said:


> Ah **** son.. she wants to go to this meeting in april where he will be and will be part of their group.. she asked what she should do. I said you have two options.
> 
> 1) dont go
> 2) Go and I go with you
> 
> She's not happy with either option.. She wants me to already trust her.. you ****ing kidding me..
> 
> I said do what you want, if you decide you are going by yourself, your stuff wont be here you when you return.
> 
> The weekend I found out she was having an EA (which i thought was all it was until that tuesday).. she was planning on still going on a business trip where he would be.. And she was still planning on getting a ride from one city to the other with him.. Man.. she is a piece of work I swear.


See, will you be together with her in April ? She called out your bluff and you are caught red handed..

You are too desperate to reconcile for your own good. (not saying you shouldn't reconcile her)


Why don't you just expose her at work and be done with it ?


----------



## warlock07

What kind of discussion did you have with the OM?


----------



## mahike

OK so I am a sick bastard. I would go and make them squirm. Of course I would trigger get pissed and then there would be blood, cops and so on.

No you have to be straight with her. She is not going and she starts looking for a new job in a new field today. If she does not like that and plays the trust card you tell her yep and there is the door Get Out!


----------



## warlock07

> I told him part of me wants you guys to go work it out.. his reponse.. no you are doing the right thing to work on your family..





:scratchhead::scratchhead:

He was giving you life advice ??


----------



## Swamp23

The tone and way the conversation went.. Yes.. And he was giving me that advise because he doesnt want to have to try and make something work with her.


Im getting steam rolled by you guys haha.. Ive made big strides, and I need to keep it up. 

She wants us to put a stake in the ground and start new.. I said Im ok with that.. But her version is starting new, and pretending none of this happened. That isnt the way this goes.


----------



## Tobyboy

Did the OM say anything about recent contact with your WW?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Swamp23

He said he hasnt talked with her since the last time i know they spoke. I asked him to tell me if she contacts him (which i doubt he will).. but he said he would. 

While i understand a lot of you guys and why you use vars.. I dont see myself as being that person. I cant rebuild while also being a secret spy.. I know what I can do.. i can check her emails when she has her computer at work. Shes not very tech savy, and Im in IT.. so i have ways to check her work email. Only thing i cant is her work phone.

I have to decide if I want to live paranoid, or just want to move on. Maybe I sound like a B-tch to you guys.. but either I have to move on and try and rebuild the trust, or move on without her and get going. How I proceed will be determined by her actions over the next couple of months. Any shady ****, any secrets, any type of mistrust and shes out.. no questions asked.


----------



## southern wife

Swamp23 said:


> He said he hasnt talked with her since the last time i know they spoke. I asked him to tell me if she contacts him (which i doubt he will).. but he said he would.
> 
> While i understand a lot of you guys and why you use vars.. I dont see myself as being that person. I cant rebuild while also being a secret spy.. I know what I can do.. i can check her emails when she has her computer at work. Shes not very tech savy, and Im in IT.. so i have ways to check her work email. Only thing i cant is her work phone.
> 
> I have to decide if I want to live paranoid, or just want to move on. Maybe I sound like a B-tch to you guys.. but either I have to move on and try and rebuild the trust, or move on without her and get going. How I proceed will be determined by her actions over the next couple of months. Any shady ****, any secrets, any type of mistrust and shes out.. no questions asked.


You don't sound like a b!tch at all, but do not let her rug sweep what she's done. She has ALOT of work ahead of her to SHOW you she's remorseful and wants the marriage to work.

So what are the things that she IS doing in this regard and will continue to do to build your trust over time?


----------



## cool12

Swamp23 said:


> Ah **** son.. she wants to go to this meeting in april where he will be and will be part of their group.. she asked what she should do. I said you have two options.
> 
> 1) dont go
> 2) Go and I go with you
> 
> She's not happy with either option.. *She wants me to already trust her*.. you ****ing kidding me..
> 
> I said do what you want, if you decide you are going by yourself, your stuff wont be here you when you return.
> 
> The weekend I found out she was having an EA (which i thought was all it was until that tuesday).. she was planning on still going on a business trip where he would be.. And she was still planning on getting a ride from one city to the other with him.. Man.. she is a piece of work I swear.



this tells me she has no frking clue how much she has hurt you.
if she is serious about R she won't go anywhere without you until you feel safe about it. she should be bending the f over backwards trying to make you feel loved and secure.

her anger and entitlement would be unacceptable to me. she messed up big time and needs to be begging forgiveness, changing whatever is necessary and doing all she can to help you heal. sounds to me like she's upset she got caught more than anything else.

as for the VAR, i've never needed one but if i was you, i'd have one in the car stat. she may have a burner phone.


----------



## lordmayhem

Swamp23 said:


> He said he hasnt talked with her since the last time i know they spoke. I asked him to tell me if she contacts him (which i doubt he will).. but he said he would.
> 
> While i understand a lot of you guys and why you use vars.. I dont see myself as being that person. I cant rebuild while also being a secret spy.. I know what I can do.. i can check her emails when she has her computer at work. Shes not very tech savy, and Im in IT.. so i have ways to check her work email. Only thing i cant is her work phone.
> 
> I have to decide if I want to live paranoid, or just want to move on. Maybe I sound like a B-tch to you guys.. but either I have to move on and try and rebuild the trust, or move on without her and get going. How I proceed will be determined by her actions over the next couple of months. Any shady ****, any secrets, any type of mistrust and shes out.. no questions asked.


*Why are you the one rebuilding the trust. Who is the BS here, you or her?* 

Since you want to do all the work of R, then I'll tell you right now that its not gonna work. This is rugsweeping. You see, the one who broke the trust is the one who has to bust their ass to rebuild it. 

Rebuilding trust includes being fully and willfully transparent. The BS monitors until he/she feels safe. After a period of time of monitoring and not finding anything, combined with the WS being transparent and remorseful, the monitoring becomes tedious and boring, and trust is slowly rebuilt.


----------



## tom67

cool12 said:


> this tells me she has no frking clue how much she has hurt you.
> if she is serious about R she won't go anywhere without you until you feel safe about it. she should be bending the f over backwards trying to make you feel loved and secure.
> 
> her anger and entitlement would be unacceptable to me. she messed up big time and needs to be begging forgiveness, changing whatever is necessary and doing all she can to help you heal. sounds to me like she's upset she got caught more than anything else.
> 
> as for the VAR, i've never needed one but if i was you, i'd have one in the car stat. she may have a burner phone.


:iagree:
The var is to ensure she is not bsing you.
She has to earn your trust back.
I would do the var for at least 2 weeks.


----------



## workindad

Reconsider the var at least on the front end to help verify her intent. That is better than getting trapped in false r ymmv
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

Swamp23 said:


> Only thing i cant is her work phone.


Wrong. You're married. There should always be COMPLETE transparency.

She cheated. If she truly wants your marriage to work, she has to WILLINGLY give up any and all privacy and autonomy that she once enjoyed. She's proven that she can't be trusted w/ either.


----------



## Swamp23

Thats my point.. She has given me all transparency.. I just am not sitting in her office, or have access to her office phone records.


----------



## GusPolinski

Swamp23 said:


> Thats my point.. She has given me all transparency.. I just am not sitting in her office, or have access to her office phone records.


Nevermind, I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to a cell phone provided to her by her employer. Apologies.


----------



## cool12

Swamp23 said:


> Thats my point.. She has given me all transparency.. I just am not sitting in her office, or have access to her office phone records.


do you ride with her to and from work?


----------



## happi_g_more2

Swamp23 said:


> He said he hasnt talked with her since the last time i know they spoke. I asked him to tell me if she contacts him (which i doubt he will).. but he said he would.
> 
> While i understand a lot of you guys and why you use vars.. I dont see myself as being that person. I cant rebuild while also being a secret spy.. I know what I can do.. i can check her emails when she has her computer at work. Shes not very tech savy, and Im in IT.. so i have ways to check her work email. Only thing i cant is her work phone.
> 
> I have to decide if I want to live paranoid, or just want to move on. Maybe I sound like a B-tch to you guys.. but either I have to move on and try and rebuild the trust, or move on without her and get going. How I proceed will be determined by her actions over the next couple of months. * Any shady ****, any secrets, any type of mistrust and shes out.. no questions asked*.


Oh, you mean like ****ing another guy while you are home with the kids. She sure sounds super sorry...sorry she got caught. They way your are dealing with this, she WILL do it again. Sorry to be barer of bad news. In all sincerity, good luck bro!


----------



## the guy

Swamp23 said:


> That isnt the way this goes.


Damn straight brother!!!

This is how it goes....she sits at your feet with a beer balancing on her head while waiting for the next command....thanking you time and again for not being like most of the guys her at TAM and throwing her to the curb.

Your old lady lost a lot and she can keep on losing
if she doesn't start excepting the consequences like you talking to the OM , canceling her trade shows and helping you heal.

Our old ladies have a hell of a lot of trust to rebuild so they better start by building up our egos and self esteem, then shows us the submission that tells they really want to stick around and not get thrown out on their butts.

But that's just me...I'm wired different then most! I'm a firm believer ..if you phuck up there is a price to pay or get the hell out and let me be.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Your WS doesn't seem very remorseful, nor does she seem to want to do any heavy lifting for the R. Just wipe the slate clean and start again.

You think that you have transparency, but you really don't.

You can't know who she calls, texts, or emails, while she's at work. She got to know this OM through her job. She'll probably meet the next OM the same way...

Good luck.


----------



## the guy

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Your WS doesn't seem very remorseful, nor does she seem to want to do any heavy lifting for the R. Just wipe the slate clean and start again.
> 
> You think that you have transparency, but you really don't.
> 
> You can't know who she calls, texts, or emails, while she's at work. She got to know this OM through her job. She'll probably meet the next OM the same way...
> 
> Good luck.


At the end of the day all the heavy lifting, submission transparentcy, and spankings won't mean sh1t unless your old lady can affair proof the marriage in the future by facing this head on and owning her crap with out exception.

You guys can move on all she wants, but has she learned anything from this?

What is her preventive maintence from this ever happening again?


----------



## Chaparral

Damn Swamp, there for awhile I thought you had finally gotten it together. Unfortunately, I firmly believe you are going to tatally screw this up.


----------



## Swamp23

Well thanks chaparral! 

I'm just going to simply say this.. She's paid me a lot of lip service.. Telling me she loves me etc... But the physical side is non existent. Her needs are coming before mine.

As for the AZ trip. I think that no matter what happens between now and then, if we're in a better place. If she decides to go alone, it will probably end out marriage. She says nothing will happen.. She then says if something did happen, then she doesn't deserve me. Well that's not something I'm going to risk, if she goes by herself because she doesn't want me to go.. Then I'll be moving forward with the appropriate steps to end he marriage. 

I feel like a knife is in my stomach everyday all day.. And she just goes about her day.. Everyday this gets harder and harder for me to deal with. If things don't change quickly, this isn't going to end in an R..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## badmemory

Swamp,

If I were you, I'd be certain there was no ambiguity on her part, about what will happen if she decides to go on that trip without you. Nor about what your expectations are for her otherwise.

Don't let her throw the monkey on your back by claiming she didn't know you felt that strongly about it.

You can always use the classic line: 

"I can't control what you do. I can only control what I accept from you; and just so you know - I won't accept you going on that trip without me, and I won't accept you rug sweeping your A - not any more."


----------



## Chaparral

badmemory said:


> Swamp,
> 
> If I were you, I'd be certain there was no ambiguity on her part, about what will happen if she decides to go on that trip without you. Nor about what your expectations are for her otherwise.
> 
> Don't let her throw the monkey on your back by claiming she didn't know you felt that strongly about it.
> 
> You can always use the classic line:
> 
> "I can't control what you do. I can only control what I accept from you; and just so you know - I won't accept you going on that trip without me, and I won't accept you rug sweeping your A - not any more."


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

From what you say, your wife is not interested in the marriage............or you haven't communicated the damage she has done to you. This no time to be timid.


----------



## wilderness

Are you kidding me? Book the trip for yourself right now and go whether you decide to stay married or not. Show her the ticket and end her fairy tale dream once and for all. I would also call the other man and let him know that if he is there you'll be contacting his clients and the people he works with to let them know that he is out destroying families when he is supposed to be working. Make sure your wife knows you did that as well.


----------



## badmemory

wilderness said:


> Are you kidding me? Book the trip for yourself right now and go whether you decide to stay married or not. Show her the ticket and end her fairy tale dream once and for all. I would also call the other man and let him know that if he is there you'll be contacting his clients and the people he works with to let them know that he is out destroying families when he is supposed to be working. Make sure your wife knows you did that as well.


Of course that's an option. But it doesn't force her hand to demonstrate how remorseful she is. Me? I'd want to know now, so I could start moving forward with her or without her.


----------



## Healer

Lovemytruck said:


> In the end you will realize that most WW are simply not worth the pain they have caused.


Truth. I tried, I tried really, _really_ hard to save my marriage, reconcile and forgive. I realized life is too damn short, and it boils down to this: Why would you want someone who betrayed you, disrespected you, lied to you, put you at risk for STD's, took you for granted and basically beat you to the ground and **** on your head? I don't want someone like that in my life at all, let alone to be my partner in life. Add to that the fact she doesn't want you anyway...it's a no brainer.


----------



## Chaparral

You need to go to the web and print off the divorce packet for your state. If its not there you can pick up a packet at the county court house. 

Also print the wayward spouse instructions below. 
give her both copies and let her read them. Most waywards do not realize what they have done. If you don't get through to her with the 
instructions the two of you can start filling out the divorce papers.

Good Luck

*Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly! *


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## Chaparral

The purpose of giving her both packets is to make the situation real. Its ultimatum time.


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## Hardtohandle

Swamp, you're much stronger than I was.. 

It is her job to show you she wants this.. Show her no quarter.. 

But make sure when you draw that line in the sand that you don't take it back.. If you do she will see and test her boundaries with you..

So don't paint her into a corner that you don't want her or yourself in..

Therapy ? Counseling ? 

I didn't see you mention any of this.. 

I agree time for a new job for her.. Can't she forward all her calls from her work cell to her personal cell that you can see the calls and possibly text ? Have her keep the phone at home maybe or with you if possible this way no fear of her turning off the forwarding and then back on.. 

My Ex would put her phone in airplane mode, courtesy of the other man..


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## Swamp23

We went out Sunday night (she had a trade show).. And I was drinking.. lets just say it didnt go well. I met the group she hangs out with that the OM works at. He wasnt there, but **** just triggered me into a bad place. I went from buzzing to drunk because of this. She has a mentor at this company.. so I finally met him. As we are leaving he says " Ill keep an eye out on her, and make sure shes taken care of".. He doesnt know about anything (at least she says that).. and that just set me off into a tailspin... I went to a bad place, was not nice to her etc. 

I told her.. "lets just say you arent talking to him anymore, and dont all the way through April... what happens if you see him and all those emotions come back.. You just end up doing it again.." 

Thats when she said " let me 1st say that it wont happen.. All I can say though is if it did.. it just means I dont deserve you"

I simply said.. " The goal here is to not put you into situations where there is even a .01% of it happening.. and the fact you have a but statement, means there is that slight chance."

I dont think me going, and seeing him is a good idea.. I would for sure try and kick his ass, heck in blind rage I dont know what I could/would do. So the only real option is for her not to go. 

she made a comment last night that since she has to go to shows where he is.. and Im not comfortable with that, she may just have to quit her job and move on to a different industry. But shes afraid that she will then have resentment to me if she did that for me.. Since shes worked so hard to get the title of Director (that is now on hold since she has a travel freeze). 

If she resents me for quitting, then this marriage is going to suck
If she continues traveling and I know hes there.. this marriage is going to suck

So maybe this just isnt going to work out.. her career seems to come before me and the kids.. My life is my family and kids, no job is that important. Ill be making enough money moving forward that she could be a stay at home mom.. but she doesnt want that either.


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## wilderness

Swamp23 said:


> We went out Sunday night (she had a trade show).. And I was drinking.. lets just say it didnt go well. I met the group she hangs out with that the OM works at. He wasnt there, but **** just triggered me into a bad place. I went from buzzing to drunk because of this. She has a mentor at this company.. so I finally met him. As we are leaving he says " Ill keep an eye out on her, and make sure shes taken care of".. He doesnt know about anything (at least she says that).. and that just set me off into a tailspin... I went to a bad place, was not nice to her etc.
> 
> I told her.. "lets just say you arent talking to him anymore, and dont all the way through April... what happens if you see him and all those emotions come back.. You just end up doing it again.."
> 
> Thats when she said " let me 1st say that it wont happen.. All I can say though is if it did.. it just means I dont deserve you"
> 
> I simply said.. " The goal here is to not put you into situations where there is even a .01% of it happening.. and the fact you have a but statement, means there is that slight chance."
> 
> I dont think me going, and seeing him is a good idea.. I would for sure try and kick his ass, heck in blind rage I dont know what I could/would do. So the only real option is for her not to go.
> 
> she made a comment last night that since she has to go to shows where he is.. and Im not comfortable with that, she may just have to quit her job and move on to a different industry. But shes afraid that she will then have resentment to me if she did that for me.. Since shes worked so hard to get the title of Director (that is now on hold since she has a travel freeze).
> 
> If she resents me for quitting, then this marriage is going to suck
> If she continues traveling and I know hes there.. this marriage is going to suck
> 
> So maybe this just isnt going to work out.. her career seems to come before me and the kids.. My life is my family and kids, no job is that important. Ill be making enough money moving forward that she could be a stay at home mom.. but she doesnt want that either.


If she resents you for quitting, that's tough tit t i es


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## brokeneric

It's not going well at the moment Swamp. It was nice to read your replies. You are a man with balls and brains. She would do it again, if not this OM then another. Remorse is realization of devastation you have caused. You don't prod someone with remorse to act, they do it themselves. I believe she might be communicating with OM in some way. She won't realize how hurt you are until and unless you are ready to leave her. If she still doesn't realize, what's the point in resurrecting your marriage? 

TAM army is with you.


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## harrybrown

You have been too easy on her.

File for the D. And how would she feel if you cheated on her?

Would that be ok?


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## theroad

Swamp23 said:


> Thats my point.. She has given me all transparency.. I just am not sitting in her office, or have access to her office phone records.


This is not complete transparency.


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## Chaparral

Your marriage sucks now and the marriage you had is over. Nothing she can do to change that. What she can do may save your family. If not she has already destroyed the family and wasn't willing to do what needed to be done.

Let her know the next time she meets up with the other man, you will have all her stuff, all neat and tidy.................in a storage locker with one months rent paid.

She isn't ready to give up the other man. If my wife told me screwing another man meant she didn't deserve me, I would say " too late, that ship sailed."

As she is the traveling spouse (who cheats with other men ), let her no you will be generous with her visitation but you will by seeking custody.

If you don't play hardball, your family is toast. We have seen this thousands of times, it always works out that way. Your best odds are fifty fifty. You try playing it soft and they go slim to none.

Get the MMSLP book below. You wife has lost respect and attraction to you.

Look up the 180 and start it now. She's cake eating.


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## badmemory

Swamp23 said:


> But shes afraid that she will then have resentment to me if she did that for me.. Since shes worked so hard to get the title of Director


Swamp,

She made the bed she's laying in. You can't be concerned about her resentment for accepting the consequences that she created.

She's just trying to guilt trip you in an attempt to avoid them. Don't fall for it.


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## theroad

Swamp23 said:


> She has a mentor at this company.. so I finally met him. As we are leaving he says " Ill keep an eye out on her, and make sure shes taken care of".. He doesnt know about anything (at least she says that).


Your WW has not ended the affair. She has just delayed contact until the next business trip.

It is also another bad sign that she will not go NC with the OM. She is insisting on continuing her work place affair.

The quote I will take care of her is another red flag this guy has to know why your WW is not traveling. Unless she is painting you as a unfounded jealous husband to her company.

You need to do a full exposure. If you did you need to re expose saying that your WW is refusing to go NC with the OM. That she is using her job as a cover to continue her affair.

If in the first exposure if you did not do a work place exposure you see that doing a work place exposure is a must.

Who have you exposed the affair to?


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## jack.c

Swamp23 said:


> Thats when she said " let me 1st say that it wont happen.. All I can say though is if it did.. it just means I dont deserve you"
> 
> 
> 
> she made a comment last night that since she has to go to shows where he is.. and Im not comfortable with that, she may just have to quit her job and move on to a different industry. But shes afraid that she will then have resentment to me if she did that for me.. Since shes worked so hard to get the title of Director (that is now on hold since she has a travel freeze).
> 
> If she resents me for quitting, then this marriage is going to suck
> If she continues traveling and I know hes there.. this marriage is going to suck



FIRST THING THIS IS ALL ON HER! If she quits *it's because she fxxcked up and is willing to do anything for a R. *
SOOOO...... IF SHE THINKS INSTEAD THAT QUITING WILL TRIGGER HER IN THE FUTURE, THEN SHE REALLY IS'NT INTO A REAL R. MENTALITY.
think about it...


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## Lovemytruck

Swamp,

You are describing feelings and issues that are typical of the early part of limbo. My guess is that you will spend the next few months going back and forth in you mind as to what you want to do. It took me the better part of 8 months to process the pain and the realities of the betrayal.

R is usually the default for most of us after d-day. I agree with the previous posters that it appears you are doing the heavy work, and she is rugsweeping.

Eventually you will begin to question the fairness of it. The love you knew will continue to be replaced by resentment. Most of us go through the anger, and the "why me" phase. It is easy to consider a RA even if you never had those thoughts before. Depression happens. Fear is a battle. Fear of losing your family, friends, and financial security.

The thoughts finally evolve into a feeling of "I deserve better." I went to the point of "can I find better?" As you evaluate yourself, you might start saying, "yes, I can find better."

Fear of your losses changes to a sense of renewal. D is your new goal.

Be patient with yourself as you move on your path. Allow yourself to feel the different things and learn from them. The process will polish you for years to come.

When you are past limbo, you will need to work on defining your new boundries, priorities, and how much you can love or trust again. One day you will look back and realize how much you have learned. I hope you also realize how good it is to be with someone who loves you more than your WW did.


----------



## doubletrouble

I read a LOT into her "but" comment. 

Just file. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. But if you do, at least you'll be damned without her. She's implying you'd always be damned with her.

Is she just really piss poor at communicating? What kind of thing is that to say? She doesn't deserve you? Yeah, that's been proven already. If it were my W saying that, that's what I'd read. And it would be unacceptable. There'd be words about that one. And if she didn't swallow it back down and mean it, here's the papers, b!tch.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Swamp23 said:


> she made a comment last night that since she has to go to shows where he is.. and Im not comfortable with that, she may just have to quit her job and move on to a different industry. But *shes afraid that she will then have resentment to me if she did that for me.*. Since shes worked so hard to get the title of Director (that is now on hold since she has a travel freeze).
> 
> If she resents me for quitting, then this marriage is going to suck
> If she continues traveling and I know hes there.. this marriage is going to suck


Answer quickly: Your good friend just relayed this story about his wife cheating on him with a guy she runs into regularly in her line of work. He relays the information to you above during his conversation with his wife while discussing reconciling.

What advice would you give your friend?


----------



## Swamp23

doubletrouble said:


> I read a LOT into her "but" comment.
> 
> Just file. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. But if you do, at least you'll be damned without her. She's implying you'd always be damned with her.
> 
> Is she just really piss poor at communicating? What kind of thing is that to say? She doesn't deserve you? Yeah, that's been proven already. If it were my W saying that, that's what I'd read. And it would be unacceptable. There'd be words about that one. And if she didn't swallow it back down and mean it, here's the papers, b!tch.


Yes she really is poor at communicating.. She doesnt know how to say things properly.. which always happens (and has always happened)..


----------



## Swamp23

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Answer quickly: Your good friend just relayed this story about his wife cheating on him with a guy she runs into regularly in her line of work. He relays the information to you above during his conversation with his wife while discussing reconciling.
> 
> What advice would you give your friend?


Good point.. I'd say thats some BS and he needs to either lay down the law or move on.


----------



## workindad

If it happens again. Wtf 

Do not accept that BS answer. She is preparing an excuse. 

She should be busting her rump to establish effective boundaries and working to R. Not playing games and prepping excuses. 

Sorry you are here but you really need a hard line approach. 

Good luck
Wd
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mahike

Resent you!!! For having to quit her job!!! I hate when the BS is acting like a doormat. The only thing she should be doing is throwing sex at you like a pornstar, worrying about you and your feelings. If she quit her job. No that is a deal breaker.

Tell her to start looking now!
If she has to go in April, You are going too 
Did I read that right he has no idea you know? WTF blow his doors off and hers and do it right now. 

You wife either does not want you there because she is going to ride him like a bronc or she wants closure. Who cares what she wants at this point.

You need to man up!


----------



## Swamp23

Lovemytruck said:


> Swamp,
> 
> You are describing feelings and issues that are typical of the early part of limbo. My guess is that you will spend the next few months going back and forth in you mind as to what you want to do. It took me the better part of 8 months to process the pain and the realities of the betrayal.
> 
> R is usually the default for most of us after d-day. I agree with the previous posters that it appears you are doing the heavy work, and she is rugsweeping.
> 
> Eventually you will begin to question the fairness of it. The love you knew will continue to be replaced by resentment. Most of us go through the anger, and the "why me" phase. It is easy to consider a RA even if you never had those thoughts before. Depression happens. Fear is a battle. Fear of losing your family, friends, and financial security.
> 
> The thoughts finally evolve into a feeling of "I deserve better." I went to the point of "can I find better?" As you evaluate yourself, you might start saying, "yes, I can find better."
> 
> Fear of your losses changes to a sense of renewal. D is your new goal.
> 
> Be patient with yourself as you move on your path. Allow yourself to feel the different things and learn from them. The process will polish you for years to come.
> 
> When you are past limbo, you will need to work on defining your new boundries, priorities, and how much you can love or trust again. One day you will look back and realize how much you have learned. I hope you also realize how good it is to be with someone who loves you more than your WW did.


I am having emotional swings.. I feel like a chick sometimes. One minute im fine, the next Im in this terrible place. 

What kills me is she doesnt understand what Im going through.. And she doesnt because I would never have put her through this. She admitted last night that she realized how lucky she is and that she wouldnt have handled this anywhere near as well as I have.

She gets mad at me when i lash out.. she gets disconnected when i have a rough time about things. I feel like it should be the opposite.. She should make more of an effort when im struggling, she should see that my lashing out is just part of the process.. But she doesnt and cant. Which makes me feel like i cant process this the way I need to. 

Last night she and I are kissing.. making out.. I start to kiss her neck and she stops me. I said you dont want me to kiss your neck because itll lead to sex (we havent had sex since I found out). She said yes. I then pretended to be ok with it and had to swallow the pit in my stomach. I finally said something today, and she says "I didnt feel attractive, i want to make it special"... 

Its all about her and how she wants everything to happen. Conversely I dont want pity sex.. but i feel with each day that goes by.. that Im not good enough for her to have sex with. Im not attractive enough.. But he was... and Im her husband.

I dont know what to do, or where to go from here. I do love her.. and my family. But i cant be in a marriage where I dont feel loved or wanted back.. im once again stuck. 

A lot of you are very quick to go to D.. I can appreciate that, but if I am going to start the process for D.. i know myself, and once it starts.. Ill check out and move on. So before I do that, i have to be 1000% sure.. because Im not going to start D as a threat, if i start D its because its going to happen.


----------



## wilderness

Swamp23 said:


> I am having emotional swings.. I feel like a chick sometimes. One minute im fine, the next Im in this terrible place.
> 
> What kills me is she doesnt understand what Im going through.. And she doesnt because I would never have put her through this. She admitted last night that she realized how lucky she is and that she wouldnt have handled this anywhere near as well as I have.
> 
> She gets mad at me when i lash out.. she gets disconnected when i have a rough time about things. I feel like it should be the opposite.. She should make more of an effort when im struggling, she should see that my lashing out is just part of the process.. But she doesnt and cant. Which makes me feel like i cant process this the way I need to.
> 
> Last night she and I are kissing.. making out.. I start to kiss her neck and she stops me. I said you dont want me to kiss your neck because itll lead to sex (we havent had sex since I found out). She said yes. I then pretended to be ok with it and had to swallow the pit in my stomach. I finally said something today, and she says "I didnt feel attractive, i want to make it special"...
> 
> Its all about her and how she wants everything to happen. Conversely I dont want pity sex.. but i feel with each day that goes by.. that Im not good enough for her to have sex with. Im not attractive enough.. But he was... and Im her husband.
> 
> I dont know what to do, or where to go from here. I do love her.. and my family. But i cant be in a marriage where I dont feel loved or wanted back.. im once again stuck.
> 
> A lot of you are very quick to go to D.. I can appreciate that, but if I am going to start the process for D.. i know myself, and once it starts.. Ill check out and move on. So before I do that, i have to be 1000% sure.. because Im not going to start D as a threat, if i start D its because its going to happen.


IMO you are being way way way too nice. She can have sex with a stranger but not you? No way should you let that fly.


----------



## doubletrouble

Swamp23 said:


> A lot of you are very quick to go to D.. I can appreciate that, but if I am going to start the process for D.. i know myself, and once it starts.. Ill check out and move on. So before I do that, i have to be 1000% sure.. because Im not going to start D as a threat, if i start D its because its going to happen.


You can have it both ways. Unless you're OCD about starting and finishing things, the D can be a maneuver to get the R going. If she thinks for a second you might cave, and not D, then you could get into a false R, which will be as bad as the first DDay was, once it's discovered/revealed. 

I don't holler "divorce!" at the drop of a hat. I'm attempting to R in my own marriage after her cheating. But with the things your WW has said and done, it seems she will respond better to vinegar than honey. Her rudeness at the first of your thread was completely off scale, to me.


----------



## badmemory

Swamp23 said:


> A lot of you are very quick to go to D.. I can appreciate that, but if I am going to start the *process* for D.. i know myself, and once it starts.. Ill check out and move on. So before I do that, i have to be 1000% sure.. because Im not going to start D as a threat, if i start D its because its going to happen.


A lot of us are indeed quick to offer D as the best option; but that's because we realize that it is a *PROCESS*. It can be delayed, stopped, prolonged, re-continued - all this before it's final. 

To take that option off the table puts the BS at a disadvantage in my view. If there's any consequence that will influence the WS to respond positively; it's understanding that feeling in their gut, of losing their spouse for cheating on them.


----------



## warlock07

Swamp23 said:


> The tone and way the conversation went.. Yes.. And he was giving me that advise because he doesnt want to have to try and make something work with her.
> 
> 
> Im getting steam rolled by you guys haha.. Ive made big strides, and I need to keep it up.
> 
> She wants us to put a stake in the ground and start new.. I said Im ok with that.. But her version is starting new, and pretending none of this happened. That isnt the way this goes.


Do you have a good friend that can totally kick your ass ? Go find one and get some sense knocked back into you...

This is some Jerry Springer sh!t!! The OM convincing you to reconcile with your wife. You trying to get back with your wife by trying to convince her that she got played by this guy while you are the one that truly loves her..




> She then says if something did happen, then she doesn't deserve me.


And why does she think she deserves you now? She need not cheat again to lose you. FFS, she was prepared to leave you if the OM would take her. She does not deserve you at all even now.


----------



## happyman64

Swamp23 said:


> Yes she really is poor at communicating.. *She doesnt know how to say things properly.. which always happens (and has always happened)*..


Really???

All she has to say is I'm sorry and I'll never cheat again.

Instead all you are getting is *BUT's....*

Let me give you a little advice from a guy married to a woman who used to travel for her job.

If she truly loves you and more so her children then there will be no but's.

It is as simple as that.

If my wife ever did that to me and acted that way She would be watching my butt as I walked away looking over the top of the Divorce papers......

Be strong. Be tough. And take control of your family.

Because your wife has no will power nor any respect at all for you or the marriage.

HM


----------



## bfree

She doesn't deserve you? No sh!t

She might resent you? Her hubris astounds me.

Friend, its over. She isn't sorry she had an affair. She's sorry she got caught. She's not sorry for what she is putting you through. She's sorry she might be losing her style of living.

She's all but told you that its likely to happen again. She's not remorseful. There is no chance for reconciliation as things stand now.


----------



## happyman64

And Swamp one other suggestion.

Make the OM sweat. Any way you can.

He deserves it.

You can contact his employer or better yet show up at his office.

It sends a clear message when you go and meet his boss.

You have balls my friend. Please use them.

And do not warn your wife. She doesn't deserve it either.

HM


----------



## doubletrouble

I agree, don't warn her. She never warned you she was going to spread her legs for another man. 

When my fWW found out I had OMW's email address and place of work, she got really mad. Then she got scared. Why? I figure at the time, it was fear for what might happen to OM. 

Now, why would you care what happens to your wife's OM? 

Hey, it's better to expose than go to jail for beating the snot out of him. Why put yourself through the humiliation? Haven't you had enough of that? Let him stew in his own juices for a while. In fact, let your WW stew for a while, too. Like, a year. Or however long it takes you to get over this. 

You're at the very beginning of this process. It's not over by a long shot, my friend. You aren't even really mad yet. Full recognition of all this betrayal won't come for a while. It comes in waves. Be ready for it. 

Vent here, and listen to those of us who have been through it. We're trying our best to help you.


----------



## MyTurn

Swamp,
it's time to do the hard work.
You have to show her tough love.
No more Mr Nice.
Tell her you are done.
That you tried to give her the chance to do the right thing and she blew it.
Tell her that you loved and trusted her more then anything and she stabed you in the back.Thank her for the years you shared together
and for your children.Then go dark on her , do the 180.
Start moving on , go out with friends , no more talking about your M.Let her see and feel you're detaching.
Then watch what she does.I bet in a week or so she will be begging
you for another shot.


----------



## Swamp23

doubletrouble said:


> I agree, don't warn her. She never warned you she was going to spread her legs for another man.
> 
> When my fWW found out I had OMW's email address and place of work, she got really mad. Then she got scared. Why? I figure at the time, it was fear for what might happen to OM.
> 
> Now, why would you care what happens to your wife's OM?
> 
> Hey, it's better to expose than go to jail for beating the snot out of him. Why put yourself through the humiliation? Haven't you had enough of that? Let him stew in his own juices for a while. In fact, let your WW stew for a while, too. Like, a year. Or however long it takes you to get over this.
> 
> You're at the very beginning of this process. It's not over by a long shot, my friend. You aren't even really mad yet. Full recognition of all this betrayal won't come for a while. It comes in waves. Be ready for it.
> 
> Vent here, and listen to those of us who have been through it. We're trying our best to help you.


Thanks.. Im trying to use this to vent as well.. And I understand there are different processes for everyone. Im fully aware that my current route may end up burning me even worse.. But i know how I am, and this is the only way for me to work through this. 

Some of you think Im a b!tch.. and that may very well be the case. But I've learned a few things about myself through my short 30+yrs of life. And the biggest thing Ive learned is I can and will move on.. but I will never be able to do it without doing it my way. if moving on means with her or without her, at least I'll know. 

I appreciate everyones feedback, and I have learned a lot.. and I know i will continue to as well. If she hurts me again.. as caring as I am.. Im also ruthless to the people I want to be. If she thinks this kindness would mean an amicable divorce, she has another thing coming..


----------



## Swamp23

MyTurn said:


> Swamp,
> it's time to do the hard work.
> You have to show her tough love.
> No more Mr Nice.
> Tell her you are done.
> That you tried to give her the chance to do the right thing and she blew it.
> Tell her that you loved and trusted her more then anything and she stabed you in the back.Thank her for the years you shared together
> and for your children.Then go dark on her , do the 180.
> Start moving on , go out with friends , no more talking about your M.Let her see and feel you're detaching.
> Then watch what she does.I bet in a week or so she will be begging
> you for another shot.


I appreciate this advise.. But ive been detached from her the last year. I accept that my detachment may have led her to what she did. Never an excuse, but I just detached myself from the marriage. It was like we were roommates. I felt she didnt love me anymore because her career was priority #1.. so I gave up.


----------



## GusPolinski

Swamp23 said:


> I appreciate this advise.. But ive been detached from her the last year. I accept that my detachment may have led her to what she did. Never an excuse, but I just detached myself from the marriage. It was like we were roommates. *I felt she didnt love me anymore because her career was priority #1*.. so I gave up.


Sounds like it still is...


----------



## MyTurn

Swap, are you guys in IC and MC?


----------



## Swamp23

MyTurn said:


> Swap, are you guys in IC and MC?


Yes.


----------



## mahike

Swamp I have read a number of your responses. It has to be your way that is how I am. That is an excuse and I am calling you out on it.

It is so clear that you want to R but you are looking for the easy way to get it. It is a long and rocky road and it requires you to have a stiff back and a no BS attitude. 

Right now your wife owns you and you may or may not see it. She believes she has the control and indeed she does. Lack of confrontation of the OM, no exposure, and so on.

If you want to save a marriage you have to be willing to burn it to the ground. She has to believe you will kick her to the curb.

I just watched my brother in law go through the same thing with my cheating ***** sister. He took the nice guy path with confrontation on his part, divorced, while they were married she slept with three POS OM. He has the short end of the stick on A and CS. This will be you unless you stop making excuses for yourself and grow a set of balls


----------



## brokeneric

Swamp23 said:


> Thanks.. Im trying to use this to vent as well.. And I understand there are different processes for everyone. Im fully aware that my current route may end up burning me even worse.. But i know how I am, and this is the only way for me to work through this.
> 
> Some of you think Im a b!tch.. and that may very well be the case. But I've learned a few things about myself through my short 30+yrs of life. And the biggest thing Ive learned is I can and will move on.. but I will never be able to do it without doing it my way. if moving on means with her or without her, at least I'll know.
> 
> I appreciate everyones feedback, and I have learned a lot.. and I know i will continue to as well. If she hurts me again.. as caring as I am.. Im also ruthless to the people I want to be. If she thinks this kindness would mean an amicable divorce, she has another thing coming..


You got balls. Now its time to show them.


----------



## Chaparral

Swamp23 said:


> I appreciate this advise.. But ive been detached from her the last year. I accept that my detachment may have led her to what she did. Never an excuse, but I just detached myself from the marriage. It was like we were roommates. I felt she didnt love me anymore because her career was priority #1.. so I gave up.


And you have told her this of course without coming across as a whiney wimp, right?


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Swamp23 said:


> I am having emotional swings.. I feel like a chick sometimes. One minute im fine, the next Im in this terrible place.
> 
> What kills me is she doesnt understand what Im going through.. And she doesnt because I would never have put her through this. She admitted last night that she realized how lucky she is and that she wouldnt have handled this anywhere near as well as I have.


What she is telling you is you're being VERY nice to her and she wouldn't be to you...why do you think that is? Maybe you need to be more like her.



> She gets mad at me when i lash out.. she gets disconnected when i have a rough time about things. I feel like it should be the opposite.. She should make more of an effort when im struggling, she should see that my lashing out is just part of the process.. But she doesnt and cant. Which makes me feel like i cant process this the way I need to.


Your feelings are accurate. She get's mad because when you're struggling, she has to deal with it. The affair comes out from under the rug and both of you get to see how ugly it is. She just wants it back under the rug.



> Last night she and I are kissing.. making out.. I start to kiss her neck and she stops me. I said you dont want me to kiss your neck because itll lead to sex (we havent had sex since I found out). She said yes. I then pretended to be ok with it and had to swallow the pit in my stomach. I finally said something today, and she says "I didnt feel attractive, i want to make it special"...


Uhmmmm......WOW!

You need to get irate. This is total and utter BS! Normally there's a period called hysterical bonding where both parties can't keep their hands off each other. It's a form of reclaiming the marriage. Her not wanting to have sex with you is the most telling thing in the world.



> Its all about her and how she wants everything to happen. Conversely I dont want pity sex.. but i feel with each day that goes by.. that Im not good enough for her to have sex with. Im not attractive enough.. But he was... and Im her husband.


Being married to a narcissist sucks doesnt it. You are an accessory in her life. Period. You have two choices, but changing her isn't one of them.



> I dont know what to do, or where to go from here. I do love her.. and my family. But i cant be in a marriage where I dont feel loved or wanted back.. im once again stuck.


Well you have a choice don't you, it's a really bad one, but it's all you have.



> A lot of you are very quick to go to D.. I can appreciate that, but if I am going to start the process for D.. i know myself, and once it starts.. Ill check out and move on. So before I do that, i have to be 1000% sure.. because Im not going to start D as a threat, if i start D its because its going to happen.


Okay. You'll need to be committed to whatever decisions you make. Ultimately you can't be a martyr. You can't sacrifice your own mental health (to stay with the kids etc) and expect to be a good father. It's one of the big myths. Staying in a marriage that has no love in it and lots of resentment isn't great for kids. 

But whatever you do, make it right for you.


----------



## mahike

Wow I missed that you have not had Sex since D Day? Does your IC and MC know about this?

She is still into the A and not into healing you. If you want to stay married then file for D. Start going out with friends and throw her out. It sounds contrary to what you want but you have to be willing to end it all to save it!!! You know you do not want to expose the A because she will scream and blame and threaten you. Fine deal with it. She knows she owns you buddy.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

I agree...she should be throwing herself at you to try and win you back. Have to agree, she's 100% concerned with her needs and totally ignorant of your feelings, your needs, and helping you heal. Why are you the one doing all the heavy lifting? You deserve more, you deserve better and you're still being punished, even if she doesn't realize it.


----------



## GusPolinski

Sounds like she may have just taken the affair underground; she may be "saving herself" for OM. Any talk of continuing w/ plans to go to this conference (where he'll be) essentially confirms this.


----------



## ironman

Swamp23 said:


> I am having emotional swings.. I feel like a chick sometimes. One minute im fine, the next Im in this terrible place.
> 
> What kills me is she doesnt understand what Im going through.. And she doesnt because I would never have put her through this. She admitted last night that she realized how lucky she is and that she wouldnt have handled this anywhere near as well as I have.
> 
> She gets mad at me when i lash out.. she gets disconnected when i have a rough time about things. I feel like it should be the opposite.. She should make more of an effort when im struggling, she should see that my lashing out is just part of the process.. But she doesnt and cant. Which makes me feel like i cant process this the way I need to.
> 
> Last night she and I are kissing.. making out.. I start to kiss her neck and she stops me. I said you dont want me to kiss your neck because itll lead to sex (we havent had sex since I found out). She said yes. I then pretended to be ok with it and had to swallow the pit in my stomach. I finally said something today, and she says "I didnt feel attractive, i want to make it special"...
> 
> Its all about her and how she wants everything to happen. Conversely I dont want pity sex.. but i feel with each day that goes by.. that Im not good enough for her to have sex with. Im not attractive enough.. But he was... and Im her husband.
> 
> I dont know what to do, or where to go from here. I do love her.. and my family. But i cant be in a marriage where I dont feel loved or wanted back.. im once again stuck.
> 
> A lot of you are very quick to go to D.. I can appreciate that, but if I am going to start the process for D.. i know myself, and once it starts.. Ill check out and move on. So before I do that, i have to be 1000% sure.. because Im not going to start D as a threat, if i start D its because its going to happen.


Swamp,

You may "know you" as you put it .. but you don't seem to understand the dynamics of a relationship. The way you are acting is not very attractive/manly <insert favorite adjective here>. Your current behavior (which is all you can control) is not going to score you any points towards saving your marriage. You need to start following some of the great advice you're being given from others who have been down this road before you ... before it's too late (I suspect it may be already). 

As has been stated before, you cannot "NICE" your way to reconciliation. You need to demand and receive genuine respect and remorse .. or else this marriage is OVER .. end of story.


----------



## cool12

Swamp23 said:


> A lot of you are very quick to go to D.. I can appreciate that, but if I am going to start the process for D.. i know myself, and once it starts.. Ill check out and move on. So before I do that, i have to be 1000% sure.. because Im not going to start D as a threat, if i start D its because its going to happen.


a lot of us aren't quick to D. i'm one of those.
however, WS should be going ABOVE AND BEYOND the requests of the spouse they betrayed if they are sincere about wanting to R. they need to do this to show the BS they are willing to do anything to change so that the BS can start to heal and the M can survive.

i just don't hear that from your WW.

start the D and see how she responds. you'll see how authentic her feelings are then.


----------



## Chaparral

Not having sex with you now is the biggest red flag of all. This has been seen here so many times before. Invariably it means she is being faithful to the other man.

As it has already been stated, hysterical bonding is what happens when people really are into reconciling. It is the way the two of you should be reclaiming the bonds of the relationship.

I would be blunt and tell her that you have been advised that her statement says she is saving herself for the other man although I would use the term boyfriend. Then watch her closely for her reaction. I think that will tell you everything you need to know.

There is usually four patterns here, no change in sex- the ww is just in it for the sex, more sex-the ww is in it for the sex but is more horney than ever, decrease in sex- she is getting plenty somewhere else and is avoiding you but doesn't want you to wonder if she cuts you off, cuts you off completely- she is love with another man and she is being faithful to him, tons of excuses for no sex and the biggest red flag of all.


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, have her read this post form a player called finding my way. Just print it off and ask her if this is how her guy played her or how she played him. Then go into the question of her saving herself for her boyfriend.

*Findingmyway was a player, I don't know if he comes on here much now, but he did leave a point of view thread although I can't find it. He posted something similar to me, here it is.:
***********************************************

My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.
1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).
2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.
3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.


I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex.
*


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## walkonmars

Swamp

How many people at her work know/knew about the OM? Does she have close friends at her work?


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## stu1

Please wait for MissFroggie to advise, the insight that is given can help and it is non-judgemental. It was helpful to me. I had a similar situation.


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## harrybrown

Read the post on no sex after her affair. 

The wife was cheating and still would not have sex with her husband because her heart belonged to the OM.

Is she trying to be faithful to the OM by not having sex with you?

I would be long gone.


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## jim123

I am not quick to D. I am quick to get control. D is not something that happens quickly. It makes everything real. Until you stand up for your marriage and yourself, she is in control. She is calling the shots.

If someone stole your car, would you threaten to call the police or actually do it to get your call back.

Show respect for yourself and your marriage. Take control and stop the games. The longer you wait the harder anything will be.

If you R, do it from strength and not weakness.


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## sandc

Swamp,
Why don't you tell her she can go on the trip, then just show up. Tell her you wanted to surprise her.


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## LongWalk

Read RoadScholar's thread. Five months of false R in sexless post Dday marriage. At last he decided to divorce. His wife could see it in his eyes. Suddenly she wanted to bang like bunnies. 

Jerry123 is another good example.

Go into a think positive about yourself mode. Do things for yourself. Move on mentally. Begging and neediness won't get you far.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rev. Clonn

"Last night she and I are kissing.. making out.. I start to kiss her neck and she stops me. I said you dont want me to kiss your neck because itll lead to sex (we havent had sex since I found out). She said yes."
NO sex since finding out. Sorry to say your marriage is over already. Period. 
When this happens you have to know she is being faithful to the OM. 
She is still keeping herself chaste, but for him.
I almost never suggest finalizing a divorce, I pound on counseling, church, family and community to support the re-building of a true relationship, before giving up. I am a pastor and councilor, and even I am going to tell you file and go full steam ahead.
She is cake eating, playing and keeping you on the hook. 
You have to make it real and now, file, serve her, request full custody because she travels so much. 
Tell both of your family's she is just paying lip service and refuses to not see him anymore, she says if she slips up again then she doesn't deserve you. she doesn't deserve you now.
Everybody around you should agree with that, and you should let them tell her so.
You can get and keep a better woman, you said so, so get moving to the greener grasses.
You deserve better, your kids deserve better. You have to man up and do this if only for them.


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## sandc

Amen.


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## illwill

Why is the op here? He is not taking advice.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Maybe a little of this.








And a little of that.


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