# Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered



## dadof2

My Original Thread is in the "Going through D or S" section, but I moved this post here on the advice of another poster. Having a rough go of it today:

Having a bad day today. Just keep thinking about what she's done/doing and it makes me so upset. I don't understand how she could walk away from our marriage so quickly and move on with her life like I never existed. I found out from a coworker that she is out with a few friends including OM right now having lunch and drinks at a restaurant here in town. I compare that with my situation, sitting in my office eating a sandwich, and I just feel worthless. How is it that she can be doing exactly what she wants and feel so good about it with no one to tell her any different, and I am left here with a broken marriage and our 2 small children are caught up in the middle.

I am trying to be strong and work in the 180, but as my counselor says, there are "landmines" out there that pop up from time to time. Today is one of those days. I am just so hurt by what she's done and she doesn't have to feel any of the repercussions of her actions. She gets the kids for a few days, then gets a few days off to go party with her new friends and posOM. Its just not fair. I am willing to do anything to make our marriage work, and she couldn't care less and no one is giving her any reasonable advice. We have been on LC about kids only - texting only - for a month now. We have not seen each other or spoken on the phone in that time. Its like she has wrapped me up in a little box and stored me away from her mind like I never existed!

And to top it off, she leaves Sunday with the kids and her parents for a week at the beach! It is just not fair. I don't even want her back at this point, I just hate the thought of another man screwing her and her enjoying it. I hate the fact that she doesn't feel any guilt or remorse for what she's doing. I hate the fact that no one is calling her out for her bull****. And I hate the fact that I cannot get this situation off my mind from more than a few minutes, while I may cross her mind maybe a few minutes a day.

Sorry to vent so much, but just having a bad day. Someone please give me some advice! I know I have to get out and be active, and I am working on it. I started exercising again and it makes me feel good, but only for an hour or so. I don't have much of a social life, I was happy to be a husband and father and didn't need to go out and party for a good time. I am in good shape, so its not like I need to lose 30 lbs, I have been taking care of myself and my house just fine without her around. It is just so hard to get out of bed in the morning and face another day of worrying and wondering why she can do what she's doing with a straight face and leave me broken on the floor.

Link to original thread w/ backstory:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...s-filed-divorce-after-2-weeks-separation.html


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## GusPolinski

Man that's rough to read. Sorry you're here.

Stay strong... your kids need you!


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## 10th Engineer Harrison

I haven't read your other threads, but this is what I'd do in this si2ation:

Because you have kids, you need 2 focus your energies on keeping them safe and their upbringing from here on out.

And because men tend 2 get the short end of the stick in a divorce, you need 2 contact a MEAN lawyer who knows how 2 fight for husbands' rights, so that you don't lose custody of your kids 2 someone in an active affair.

DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. If she brings the kids around her OM(s), you need 2 be concerned. If she's out partying when she should be a mom, write it down. Have a voice-activated recorder on you whenever you see her, and tell her you do (because you can't record her without her permission) - in case she tries 2 drum up false domestic violence charges and get you hauled off 2 jail (it's happened 2 good men before).

Basically, I would not be fighting 2 save this marriage, I'd be fighting 2 hasten its end - because no matter what you want, be it recovery or divorce - you will be far likelier 2 get what you want if you stand firm from this second forward about not tolerating her treatment of you and her childish, selfish behavior.

I'm sure smarter people than me will chime in soon. Hang in there!

-ol' 2long


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## jld

It will get better. Just trust in that.

You don't want to be with someone who does not want to be with you. You want someone who loves and values you. Someone who will be loyal to you. Someone you can be yourself with.

Try to see this as your wife setting you free to be with this new person. Think of it as a gift she has given you. She knew she could not be what you needed, so she is allowing someone else to come in and be that, eventually. 

Believe that you will go on to a happier, peaceful life.


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## tom67

Did you send an email to the principal yet?
Do it.


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## 3putt

So you have the PI on this, and that's great. We don't have many around here that have the resources to do this, so that's in your favor.

I would just sit back and see what he produces for now. I know it sucks (BTDT), but if you can get something concrete tonight, then tomorrow or Sunday at the latest would be a good time to launch an exposure nuke. You also need to be doing some research on his FB contacts and family as well in the interim.

I think I posted this to you earlier, but read it again and digest it. It's your best chance at busting this up that you will ever have.

Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums


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## dadof2

tom67 said:


> Did you send an email to the principal yet?
> Do it.


Hey Tom- not yet. I have PI on her tonight hoping to get some solid evidence. I want to wait and get all my ducks in a row with my attorney before I unleash the fury.

I know in my head that I don't want her back. It's that damn old heart of mine that still sees her as a caring, loving woman that's been my best friend for the last 6 years. Hopefully if I see video evidence of her and OM, that will start to fade away.

The best advice I've seen on here is to understand that the gal in my wedding pictures and in my heart is not the same girl I am married to now. And it is the truth, she has changed so much I don't even like this new person. But all the old memories are still there of the old one and how good she was.


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## 3putt

tom67 said:


> Did you send an email to the principal yet?
> Do it.


Damn, I forgot this is THAT one.

You need to expose this to not only the principal, but to the superintendent as well so as it's not 'overlooked'.


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## dadof2

3putt said:


> So you have the PI on this, and that's great. We don't have many around here that have the resources to do this, so that's in your favor.
> 
> I would just sit back and see what he produces for now. I know it sucks (BTDT), but if you can get something concrete tonight, then tomorrow or Sunday at the latest would be a good time to launch an exposure nuke. You also need to be doing some research on his FB contacts and family as well in the interim.
> 
> I think I posted this to you earlier, but read it again and digest it. It's your best chance at busting this up that you will ever have.
> 
> Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums


Thanks 3putt. Yes fortunately I have plenty of resources and I do not mind footing the bill to clear my name. It is worth any amount of money to me to be able to have my children with me and prove that she is not worthy of trusting at any level.

I have a good lawyer and a good PI on her tonight. Being that she is about to leave town for a week with her parents (I confirmed this), I knew it would be prime time to get some last minute goodbye loving in before she leaves. I am anxiously waiting the call from PI tomorrow I assume to let me know how the night went.


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## tom67

Dadof2
You are lucky in a way this happened only 5 years in and she is working.
I know you are hurting now but this too will pass.


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## dadof2

3putt said:


> Damn, I forgot this is THAT one.
> 
> You need to expose this to not only the principal, but to the superintendent as well so as it's not 'overlooked'.


Yeah man, I think I may be the flavor of the month over on the Going through D or S board. But its okay, I understand that this is playing out like a Lifetime Movie. Wife is hot young teacher seduced by divorced Asst. Principal during afterschool workouts. You couldn't write a better script right?

Luckily we live in a small town and my family holds quite a bit of power. My grandfather was mayor here back in the 80's and a lot of his old compadres are high up in city govt now. Actually one of his best friends' younger brother is the superintendent of schools. The principal of STBX's school went to HS with my parents.


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## dadof2

tom67 said:


> Dadof2
> You are lucky in a way this happened only 5 years in and she is working.
> I know you are hurting now but this too will pass.


That is one reason why I am skeptical to expose. If she loses her job, then I may be responsible for spousal support. But you and a few others said that 5 years isnt long enough for her to get permanent support. She has a college education and can find employment anywhere, a teacher with her experience in this area makes around $45K. I make $100+ so that is why I don't mind burning through our savings to pay lawyers and PI's.


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## tom67

dadof2 said:


> That is one reason why I am skeptical to expose. If she loses her job, then I may be responsible for spousal support. But you and a few others said that 5 years isnt long enough for her to get permanent support. She has a college education and can find employment anywhere, a teacher with her experience in this area makes around $45K. I make $100+ so that is why I don't mind burning through our savings to pay lawyers and PI's.


Hey there are consequences for her actions and yes 5 years is nothing in the bigger scheme of things.


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## Pamvhv

dadof2 said:


> My Original Thread is in the "Going through D or S" section, but I moved this post here on the advice of another poster. Having a rough go of it today:
> 
> Having a bad day today. Just keep thinking about what she's done/doing and it makes me so upset. I don't understand how she could walk away from our marriage so quickly and move on with her life like I never existed. I found out from a coworker that she is out with a few friends including OM right now having lunch and drinks at a restaurant here in town. I compare that with my situation, sitting in my office eating a sandwich, and I just feel worthless. How is it that she can be doing exactly what she wants and feel so good about it with no one to tell her any different, and I am left here with a broken marriage and our 2 small children are caught up in the middle.
> 
> I am trying to be strong and work in the 180, but as my counselor says, there are "landmines" out there that pop up from time to time. Today is one of those days. I am just so hurt by what she's done and she doesn't have to feel any of the repercussions of her actions. She gets the kids for a few days, then gets a few days off to go party with her new friends and posOM. Its just not fair. I am willing to do anything to make our marriage work, and she couldn't care less and no one is giving her any reasonable advice. We have been on LC about kids only - texting only - for a month now. We have not seen each other or spoken on the phone in that time. Its like she has wrapped me up in a little box and stored me away from her mind like I never existed!
> 
> And to top it off, she leaves Sunday with the kids and her parents for a week at the beach! It is just not fair. I don't even want her back at this point, I just hate the thought of another man screwing her and her enjoying it. I hate the fact that she doesn't feel any guilt or remorse for what she's doing. I hate the fact that no one is calling her out for her bull****. And I hate the fact that I cannot get this situation off my mind from more than a few minutes, while I may cross her mind maybe a few minutes a day.
> 
> Sorry to vent so much, but just having a bad day. Someone please give me some advice! I know I have to get out and be active, and I am working on it. I started exercising again and it makes me feel good, but only for an hour or so. I don't have much of a social life, I was happy to be a husband and father and didn't need to go out and party for a good time. I am in good shape, so its not like I need to lose 30 lbs, I have been taking care of myself and my house just fine without her around. It is just so hard to get out of bed in the morning and face another day of worrying and wondering why she can do what she's doing with a straight face and leave me broken on the floor.
> 
> Link to original thread w/ backstory:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...s-filed-divorce-after-2-weeks-separation.html


I'm in the exact same situation. Exactly. Tomorrow will be seven weeks he's been gone. Keep your chin up.


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## dadof2

Pamvhv said:


> I'm in the exact same situation. Exactly. Tomorrow will be seven weeks he's been gone. Keep your chin up.


Thanks, these forums have been a great lifeline for me the last few weeks! I hope one day when I get to the "other side" I can be a wise old soul on here that helps someone else get through this pain.

I truly would not wish this on my worst enemy.


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## 3putt

dadof2 said:


> Yeah man, I think I may be the flavor of the month over on the Going through D or S board. But its okay, I understand that this is playing out like a Lifetime Movie. Wife is hot young teacher seduced by divorced Asst. Principal during afterschool workouts. You couldn't write a better script right?
> 
> Luckily we live in a small town and my family holds quite a bit of power. My grandfather was mayor here back in the 80's and a lot of his old compadres are high up in city govt now. Actually one of his best friends' younger brother is the superintendent of schools. The principal of STBX's school went to HS with my parents.


Well, this all works in your favor, and in a BIG way. But for now you just have to sit back and see what unfolds with the PI evidence wise.

As far as the 'flavor of the month' comment is concerned, if you read some other threads, you'll find that your crap is no different than anyone else's crap who's been through this. Hurts like a mutha, but quite garden variety around here. The names change, but that's about it.

It does get better in time though. Trust me on this one.


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## tom67

3putt said:


> Well, this all works in your favor, and in a BIG way. But for now you just have to sit back and see what unfolds with the PI evidence wise.
> 
> As far as the 'flavor of the month' comment is concerned, if you read some other threads, you'll find that your crap is no different than anyone else's crap who's been through this. Hurts like a mutha, but quite garden variety around here. The names change, but that's about it.
> 
> It does get better in time though. Trust me on this one.


Get the pos's @ss fired or get a nice settlement.
See another attorney about doing this later.


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## 6301

One of the things you should do is when you see some of her friends or family, make sure that you tell them your doing fine and don't let on your hurting BUT make sure that you tell them all that now that your A SINGLE PARENT RAISING TWO CHILDREN can be a challenge but is such a joy for you and that even though when your kids GO FOR THEIR VISITATION WITH THEIR MOTHER, you miss the kid and CAN'T WAIT FOR YOUR STBXW TO RETURN THEM FROM HER VISITATION. 

I'm not a woman but I'd bet the house that any woman worth her weight in salt would hold a dim view of another woman whose more interested in getting her vagina filled up by another man then having her children full time.

She's the bad guy in this situation and everyone should know that her needs come first and the kids come second.

Do what my buddy did. When his wife got some guy lawyer who only handles women clients, he asked around and found a good sharp woman lawyer who knew her stuff, and when she asked him why he wanted her to represent him, he told her that she thinks different then a male lawyer and she could have abetter chance getting into his wife's head. He said that she did play head games with his ex and was real happy with her.

Most important. Your the one who has your kids living with you. That is more important then anything else. Good luck.


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## TiredFamilyGuy

OP

I feel for your situation. Warm feelings and respect to you for holding it together so well. 

My 2c: Separation is about feelings but it is also about process. About the process: - document everything, VAR any the calls with your wife, don't be overly flexible without getting more kid time in return. 

About feelings:
-You will feel that you have lost. and the POSOM has won. In a way, yes. That burns. In a deeper way, no: the prize was not worth what you thought she was.
-Their relationship, born of deceit, may crash. Do not, do not, do not be the fallback: hell, no.

Your kids, man. You will be an awesome father to them, that is what matters. 

Respect to you. Keep strong.


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## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> Thanks, these forums have been a great lifeline for me the last few weeks! I hope one day when I get to the "other side" I can be a wise old soul on here that helps someone else get through this pain.
> 
> I truly would not wish this on my worst enemy.


You will. I mean, the pain of the betrayal never fully leaves, but things do get better. They really do.


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## lordmayhem

I know I said I wouldn't post these pictures anymore, but this picture really does fit the situation. I actually did make all these demotivational posters about infidelity.


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## tom67

lordmayhem said:


> I know I said I wouldn't post these pictures anymore, but this picture really does fit the situation. I actually did make all these demotivational posters about infidelity.


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## LongWalk

dadof2 said:


> That is one reason why I am skeptical to expose. If she loses her job, then I may be responsible for spousal support. But you and a few others said that 5 years isnt long enough for her to get permanent support. She has a college education and can find employment anywhere, a teacher with her experience in this area makes around $45K. I make $100+ so that is why I don't mind burning through our savings to pay lawyers and PI's.


Given that you see the need for moral order, put POSOM up on Cheaterville. Although you did not witness them on a hidden pin cam, there is no other rational explanation for the suddenness of her departure. She craved the separation so that she could have more sex with him and not let you touch her vagina anymore.

Putting him up on Cheaterville may cause him to lose his job. If you wife loses hers, she will have to find a new one. Alimony will be limited in duration. A Cheaterville post could be something like this:



> Assistant Principal Peter Piper engaged a married colleague in a sexual affair. He and the woman teacher began spending time together after conditioning workout sessions he led for staff. His affair partner is the mother of young children. She and her husband are now divorcing. Piper was already divorced.


Add a photo or two of him from the school website and Facebook.

By the way have you contacted him ex? She may know about your wife. Furthermore, this may not be a novel experience to him. How long ago was he divorced? Does she live in your town. He may not be be cool if she rats you out to him, but do a bit of investigation first.


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## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Given that you see the need for moral order, put POSOM up on Cheaterville. Although you did not witness them on a hidden pin cam, there is no other rational explanation for the suddenness of her departure. She craved the separation so that she could have more sex with him and not let you touch her vagina anymore.
> 
> Putting him up on Cheaterville may cause him to lose his job. If you wife loses hers, she will have to find a new one. Alimony will be limited in duration. A Cheaterville post could be something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> Add a photo or two of him from the school website and Facebook.
> 
> By the way have you contacted him ex? She may know about your wife. Furthermore, this may not be a novel experience to him. How long ago was he divorced? Does she live in your town. He may not be be cool if she rats you out to him, but do a bit of investigation first.


:iagree:
Reminder
Five year marriage.
The pos he can maybe beat the wrap but he can't beat the ride.


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## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> Hey Tom- not yet. I have PI on her tonight hoping to get some solid evidence. I want to wait and get all my ducks in a row with my attorney before I unleash the fury.


Your wife filed for divorce 2 weeks ago. In most states, once the papers are file either one of you is free to see anyone you want. It’s not adultery at that point.

What are the laws in your state about seeing other people after divorce? What does your attorney tell you about this?

You might be spending a lot of money on a PI that will do you no good in a divorce.


dadof2 said:


> I know in my head that I don't want her back. It's that damn old heart of mine that still sees her as a caring, loving woman that's been my best friend for the last 6 years. Hopefully if I see video evidence of her and OM, that will start to fade away.


It will probably hurt more than anything. Maybe hurting more will help kill your feelings for her.


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## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> That is one reason why I am skeptical to expose. If she loses her job, then I may be responsible for spousal support. But you and a few others said that 5 years isnt long enough for her to get permanent support. She has a college education and can find employment anywhere, a teacher with her experience in this area makes around $45K. I make $100+ so that is why I don't mind burning through our savings to pay lawyers and PI's.


Talk to your lawyer about exposing to her employer before you do this.

The Marriage Builder material on exposing an affair is clearly for the purpose of destroying the affair so that recovery can start. You have no intent to get back with her so this might not be so wise. Exposure it not about revenge. 

Keep in mind that if she can ask for interim spousal support while the divorce is in progress. If she is employed she could get half of the difference between your incomes. 

If she loses her job, she can get 50% of our income + child support if she has the children until the divorce is final. It's pretty easy to cause a divorce to drag out for months, even years. 

If you do something to cause her to lose her job, she could also ask the court for damages.

Please check with your attorney before going off and doing all these great revenge ideas.


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## Chaparral

If you talk to your attorney about how to deal with two cheaters, she's going to tell you to dig a hole, jump in and pull the lid over you. They always do. They never want to fight the affair. Just sayin.


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## Chaparral

By the way, if you haven't already found it, dadsdivorce.com is a good resource.


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## EleGirl

Chaparral said:


> If you talk to your attorney about how to deal with two cheaters, she's going to tell you to dig a hole, jump in and pull the lid over you. They always do. They never want to fight the affair. Just sayin.


Yea, cause getting his wife fired so he has to pay thousands a month in support is such a great idea.


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## LongWalk

I don't think the PI is useful. She was cheating that is very clear.

As to her job and revenge, generally in small towns the reaction will be more in favor of the BS.

The affair is not going to make either his WW or POSOM look good in the eyes of their colleagues.


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## Chaparral

EleGirl said:


> Yea, cause getting his wife fired so he has to pay thousands a month in support is such a great idea.


Maybe its a man thing. Posom needs to go down. Damn the torpedoes.:BoomSmilie_anim::BoomSmilie_anim:


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## barbados

I would find out if the school district has any regulations against employees dating. Also talk to your attorney to see if you can bring suit for alienation of affection, especially since the POSOM was her superior at the school.


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## Chaparral

dadof2 said:


> That is one reason why I am skeptical to expose. If she loses her job, then I may be responsible for spousal support. But you and a few others said that 5 years isnt long enough for her to get permanent support. She has a college education and can find employment anywhere, a teacher with her experience in this area makes around $45K. I make $100+ so that is why I don't mind burning through our savings to pay lawyers and PI's.


Ask your attorney about this. Some stats do not consider one losing their job due to adultery as a factor. They look at what the person was making and what they should be able to make. This keeps people from leaving their job just to get more alimony.........or intentionally getting fired.

What state do you live in?


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## 10th Engineer Harrison

Chaparral said:


> Maybe its a man thing. Posom needs to go down. Damn the torpedoes.:BoomSmilie_anim::BoomSmilie_anim:


The problem here is that she has filed for divorce already. She's gone. Help her stay gone.

Don't get sucked in2 the Reconciliation Industrial Complex. The problem with MB nuclear exposure is that it might "work". It might end the affair. And then what? If the WW is still determined 2 divorce, what has been saved? Your pride? I ac2ally don't think so. I think a hardline stance - where you give her exactly what she thinks she wants - will have the best chance of getting you what you need for you and your kids in a speedy divorce, or getting the respect you deserved all along if she wants 2 reconcile.

And if she thinks she can live happily ever after with the OM, let her. Encourage her even, so she won't want 2 come knocking on your door at some fu2re date. Let him pay 2 support her new lifestyle.

-ol' 2long


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## WhiteRaven

dadof2 said:


> The best advice I've seen on here is to understand that the gal in my wedding pictures and in my heart is not the same girl I am married to now.


Destroy your wedding albums. It helps a lot.


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## Chaparral

*. About a month ago it came to light that she had been texting and seeing a coworker after hours. She is a school teacher and this guy is the PE coach who was running a workout group of 5-6 ladies after school. Once caught, she admitted that they had kissed once.
*

This Posom is a school official, using school property to recruit a harem. He needs to go down and be hounded completely out of town.

Dadof 2 needs to talk to his wife, the principal, the superintendent, 
the school board and an aggressive lawyer willing to sue the school system.

This has happened here before and that is exactly what the betrayed husband did and it worked wonderfully. The Posom was run right out of his job. And even better, the BS keeps up with where he goes and notifies every school system what a piece of sh!t he is. This has cost him many jobs. Just guessing but I believe he might be sorry he messed with a married woman.

BTW, this has nothing to do with reconciliation. This has to do with doing a public service and getting an immoral sex fiend out of the school system. I've seen enough to know this crap doesn't stop with teachers. There are students at risk here too.


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## lordmayhem

Chaparral said:


> *. About a month ago it came to light that she had been texting and seeing a coworker after hours. She is a school teacher and this guy is the PE coach who was running a workout group of 5-6 ladies after school. Once caught, she admitted that they had kissed once.
> *
> 
> This Posom is a school official, using school property to recruit a harem. He needs to go down and be hounded completely out of town.
> 
> Dadof 2 needs to talk to his wife, the principal, the superintendent,
> the school board and an aggressive lawyer willing to sue the school system.
> 
> This has happened here before and that is exactly what the betrayed husband did and it worked wonderfully. The Posom was run right out of his job. And even better, the BS keeps up with where he goes and notifies every school system what a piece of sh!t he is. This has cost him many jobs. Just guessing but I believe he might be sorry he messed with a married woman.
> 
> BTW, this has nothing to do with reconciliation. This has to do with doing a public service and getting an immoral sex fiend out of the school system. I've seen enough to know this crap doesn't stop with teachers. There are students at risk here too.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Mention to the school board about lawsuits and they will scramble. Also mentioning that you will go to the news about school scandals too. The news loves these school scandals because of the ratings.


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## 10th Engineer Harrison

I do agree with this. 

"hopefully" the WW will go on the lamb with him!


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## jld

WhiteRaven said:


> Destroy your wedding albums. It helps a lot.


Your kids might like those one day.


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## the guy

dadof2 said:


> leave me broken on the floor.


Why are you letting this kind of women do this to you?
Please stop letting this broken person define you!

My advise...chicks like confident guys so start faking it until you make it. You gotta get out and start doing things...like go out to lunch and not sit in the office.

Get out brother or this crap will eat you up from the inside out.

In short stop thinking about what your cheating lying wife is doing and start thinking of what *you* can be doing !!!!!

Your old lady is the loser...the broken one. Her fasade isn't fooling me ...any one that takes the easy way and is a back staber is the one that is truly broken.

Your one of the good guys so hold your head up and go out and show it off.

Let the bad guys go out and have their fun for now...in the end they will be the ones alone only to be found dead by the post man in a trailer full of cats and cat boo.

A lot of us here got phucked over by our old ladies and we don't let the bad guys win...we take the bull by the horns get back on the saddle and take on the world.


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## EleGirl

2long said:


> The problem here is that she has filed for divorce already. She's gone. Help her stay gone.
> 
> Don't get sucked in2 the Reconciliation Industrial Complex. The problem with MB nuclear exposure is that it might "work". It might end the affair. And then what? If the WW is still determined 2 divorce, what has been saved? Your pride? I ac2ally don't think so. I think a hardline stance - where you give her exactly what she thinks she wants - will have the best chance of getting you what you need for you and your kids in a speedy divorce, or getting the respect you deserved all along if she wants 2 reconcile.
> 
> And if she thinks she can live happily ever after with the OM, let her. Encourage her even, so she won't want 2 come knocking on your door at some fu2re date. Let him pay 2 support her new lifestyle.
> 
> -ol' 2long


I'm a big supporter of the MB exposure idea. However only when there is a chance of reconciliation. There is none here. She has filed for divorce and has started to date. 

I agree with you, let the OM support her now. Of course he's a teacher too so I'll bet he only makes around $45K a year. So she'll be supporting herself as long as she does not lose her job.


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## EleGirl

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
> 
> Mention to the school board about lawsuits and they will scramble. Also mentioning that you will go to the news about school scandals too. The news loves these school scandals because of the ratings.


His children have to live in that community. How do you think his children will handle it when that news hits the papers? That is if it ever does. It's highly unlikely that the news organizations will care at all that his wife is going out with some guy after she filed for divorce.


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## Chaparral

Is it common to take adderal and Xanax at the same time? From what I read it looks like one might cancel out the other . Does she have prescriptions for these drugs. Why does she take them?

By the way, one of the side effects of Xanax is a loss of self control.


----------



## LongWalk

This guy is her boss. OP needs to fight back via exposure to gain self respect. It's simple.


----------



## warlock07

EleGirl said:


> Yea, cause getting his wife fired so he has to pay thousands a month in support is such a great idea.


he seems to be ok with that...


----------



## EleGirl

warlock07 said:


> he seems to be ok with that...


On his other thread (or was it this one?) he said that he was concerned about her losing her job and him having to pay her even more in support. 

It does not make sense that he would be ok with having to give her 50% of his income for a year or so. He says that he makes over $100K a year. That could hurt big time.

I make that kind of money and there is no way in hell I'd do anything that would cost me 50% of my income for a year or more.


----------



## Ripper

Chaparral said:


> Dadof 2 needs to talk to his wife, the principal, the superintendent,
> the school board and an aggressive lawyer willing to sue the school system.


I second this.

Try to get as much evidence you can that this was going on prior to being served. (not sure it actually matters) Then expose and find an attorney to file suit against the school system and possibly the OM for alienation (if applicable for your area).


----------



## dadof2

Thanks for all of the advice. I had a PI on her this weekend, and they reported activity both days. She spent 4 hours at his house Friday night, then was with him in various places all day yesterday.

They did not report any "hard" hits, such as PDA or overnight stays. I do have enough to prove a relationship exists, but that really doesn't get me anywhere.

I know I am too emotional right now, but I understand I probably won't get adultery through court. I am starting to accept that. Now I just want revenge. I want her family to know what she is doing, because all she has told them is that I was emotionally and physically abusive towards her and so they are all letting her play the victim and I have become some monster all of a sudden.

I realize the marriage is over and I don't want R. I just want some type of vindication, but I am starting to realize that it may be harder to get any type of "justice" to satisfy me anyway. Others have told me about the process, especially when it is a BH from a WAW, and there is little I can do except let her go and hope a few years down the road it blows up in her face.

It really sucks that today is the first time I have seen her in a month. She came by an hour ago to pick up our 2 children to take them on vacation for a week. She has used her parents as a go between the last few weeks, and I assume it was to allow her to fully detach from any feelings of remorse or guilt. Now that her an OM are full on dating, she has hardened her heart against me and it doesn't matter if she sees me or not, there is nothing inside her that triggers any emotions.

I put my best face on and we didn't talk about the marriage or what we have been up to. She brought me some paperwork to bring to daycare next week and packed the kids up and left. Once they drove away I broke down in tears. Maybe its because seeing her triggered all the old feelings, or maybe it is hitting home that its really over. It just sucks knowing I am still working through this grief, and she is on her way to the beach for a week and I haven't crossed her mind since she drove away.


----------



## thatbpguy

I feel for you. I really do. All you can do is expose her lies.


----------



## Chaparral

Expose the om. Give his bosses the timeline. It WILL make you feel a bit better. When a cheater has to carry the load they created it changes everything. While these affairs rarely last, his plan is not only to replace you as her husband but also to take your place as your kids dad...............no matter what they may say.

Let everyone in the school system know what they have done. Its the right thing to do. I pray you have the strength to do this and put up a worthy fight for your kids sake. By the time your wife gets back from her vacation the sh!t should have already hit the fan. Let them all know you will be subpoenaing their records so they can just stop lying now.

Do not sit and wallow in misery. Go to the gym, the workouts improve you physically but more important, mentally. See your md for temp help. Find a counselor that is qualified in PTSD and infidelity.

This is a war, fight it courageously and intelligently. Win or lose do not just slink away and accept another man destroying your family meekly.


----------



## thatbpguy

You can also file suit and subpoena their work emails.


----------



## jnj express

Hey dad------you have an out---it will not be agst. your wife who has wrecked your life, and will now send your kids into split homes. Tho in this situation---it sounds like that is the best outcome---2 reasonably happy homes (in time) as opposed to one home where there is nothing but misery going on---the split homes will be much better------anyway, to get to your evening the score----

You file a civil suit for INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS---agst your wife's lover----you file an action for yourself, and an action for each of your kids------and make the sued for amt. around $500,000 for each of the 3 of you. I promise you, that will wake your wife's lover up real fast. He is gonna spend some big bucks with an atty., for he will have only one month to answer THREE CIVIL SUITS, or he defaults-----

You could actually go to the law library, learn about the above tort, make sure the elements are all there, and file the suits yourself----your cost, 3 filing fees, and some time-----his cost----THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS


----------



## dadof2

Chaparral said:


> Expose the om. Give his bosses the timeline. It WILL make you feel a bit better. When a cheater has to carry the load they created it changes everything. While these affairs rarely last, his plan is not only to replace you as her husband but also to take your place as your kids dad...............no matter what they may say.
> 
> Let everyone in the school system know what they have done. Its the right thing to do. I pray you have the strength to do this and put up a worthy fight for your kids sake. By the time your wife gets back from her vacation the sh!t should have already hit the fan. Let them all know you will be subpoenaing their records so they can just stop lying now.
> 
> Do not sit and wallow in misery. Go to the gym, the workouts improve you physically but more important, mentally. See your md for temp help. Find a counselor that is qualified in PTSD and infidelity.
> 
> This is a war, fight it courageously and intelligently. Win or lose do not just slink away and accept another man destroying your family meekly.


I agree with you and that is exactly what I want to do. The only thing I am afraid of is to make claims against them and tell them I will be seeking depositions without first talking to my lawyer. I can send the emails right now but if I don't have any hard evidence, then they will paint me as a crazy jealous exH and dismiss my claims. And I don't want to screw up any chance of continuing the search for a hard hit from a PI down the road to really nail them.


----------



## seeking sanity

I've been there and actually found this post trigger-y, but I think you're being an idiot by pursuing exposure for the sake of getting OM and exWW fired. 

I know you are hurting and it seems like she's living the high life, but your BEST course of action is to get your sh*t together, accept the marriage is over, and live an awesome life. She'll come down from her high and realize what a b*tch she was at some point.

Revenge is stupid and a waste of energy. 

The best medicine for you right now is to start getting laid, find some friends, take up golf, or kickboxing, or whatever. Get a life, move on.


----------



## the guy

Dude you got the whole week to do what ever you want, no one needed a damn thing from you, and no one telling you what to do.

Hell I would crack open a few beers grill a steak and leave the dishes in the sink to be cleaned up when ever I feel like it

Then I would to the store and pick up some new gear for my bike and maybe a new tool or something for the garden i could play with.

this evening you can rent a few movies and not worry about what rating they cuz you don't have any kids that will walk in.

In short...make lemonaid out of lemons...if you know what I mean.


----------



## the guy

seeking sanity said:


> I've been there and actually found this post trigger-y, but I think you're being an idiot by pursuing exposure for the sake of getting OM and exWW fired.
> 
> I know you are hurting and it seems like she's living the high life, but your BEST course of action is to get your sh*t together, accept the marriage is over, and live an awesome life. She'll come down from her high and realize what a b*tch she was at some point.
> 
> Revenge is stupid and a waste of energy.
> 
> The best medicine for you right now is to start getting laid, find some friends, take up golf, or kickboxing, or whatever. Get a life, move on.



:smthumbup: This is worth posting again


----------



## dadof2

jnj express said:


> Hey dad------you have an out---it will not be agst. your wife who has wrecked your life, and will now send your kids into split homes. Tho in this situation---it sounds like that is the best outcome---2 reasonably happy homes (in time) as opposed to one home where there is nothing but misery going on---the split homes will be much better------anyway, to get to your evening the score----
> 
> You file a civil suit for INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS---agst your wife's lover----you file an action for yourself, and an action for each of your kids------and make the sued for amt. around $500,000 for each of the 3 of you. I promise you, that will wake your wife's lover up real fast. He is gonna spend some big bucks with an atty., for he will have only one month to answer THREE CIVIL SUITS, or he defaults-----
> 
> You could actually go to the law library, learn about the above tort, make sure the elements are all there, and file the suits yourself----your cost, 3 filing fees, and some time-----his cost----THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS


I just did a quick look at the tort, and all the elements seem to fit. I would love to do this. My question is how do I make my attorney go forward with it? I have heard how slow the process is and I know most attorneys don't like to rock the boat. Hopefully I can express to mine how much I want to file something to make these people feel a fraction of the hurt that I am experiencing.


----------



## dadof2

the guy said:


> Dude you got the whole week to do what ever you want, no one needed a damn thing from you, and no one telling you what to do.
> 
> Hell I would crack open a few beers grill a steak and leave the dishes in the sink to be cleaned up when ever I feel like it
> 
> Then I would to the store and pick up some new gear for my bike and maybe a new tool or something for the garden i could play with.
> 
> this evening you can rent a few movies and not worry about what rating they cuz you don't have any kids that will walk in.
> 
> In short...make lemonaid out of lemons...if you know what I mean.


Thanks TG and SS, your posts are a good kick in the ass that I need right now. I am so desperate to find something that will occupy my time I am now consumed with the whole revenge/how to make her hurt angle.

My IC said I am going through the stages of grief, and the end goal is to become indifferent to her. Being that we have kids I don't know how that will ever happen, but I see all the people here who have reached that point and I must say I am a little jealous.


----------



## Chaparral

seeking sanity said:


> I've been there and actually found this post trigger-y, but I think you're being an idiot by pursuing exposure for the sake of getting OM and exWW fired.
> 
> I know you are hurting and it seems like she's living the high life, but your BEST course of action is to get your sh*t together, accept the marriage is over, and live an awesome life. She'll come down from her high and realize what a b*tch she was at some point.
> 
> Revenge is stupid and a waste of energy.
> 
> The best medicine for you right now is to start getting laid, find some friends, take up golf, or kickboxing, or whatever. Get a life, move on.


The guys that have followed this advice have not fared well. The just go away defeated. Not standing up for yourself destroys your self esteem. What he does now will define him for the rest of his life.


----------



## the guy

Chaparral said:


> The guys that have followed this advice have not fared well. The just go away defeated. Not standing up for yourself destroys your self esteem. What he does now will define him for the rest of his life.


Very good point.

The thing that sticks out the most in my mind is the fact that OP's old lady slandered his name to cover up her adultory.
That in its self is worth a "counter action"....."revenge" is such an ugly word.

So the way I see it, her screwing a round diserve exposure, her slander also justifies the exposure. Enless you did slap your old lady around then thats different but if your inocent off this abuse then i would take the gloves off and start swinging....phuck her...she could of told family and friends the M wasn't working out....instead she went down that road.


----------



## jnj express

For starters---you may wanna wait till D is final, and have a peaceful settlement----then drop the bomb on the lover

You can file the suit yourself---go to the law library, everything is there that you would need---and a paralegeal can help you write it up---then file it, like I said, your cost 3 filing fees----whether you go on, at that point is up to you------and whether your atty wants to get involved or let it drop, is up to the both of you,-------meanwhile---

You will have scared the lover so sh*tless----he won't know which side is up---CUZ HE MUST ANSWER, W/IN A MONTH-------and that is gonna cost him a lot of greenbacks, cuz he will HAVE TO HIRE AN ATTY TO ANSWER, --------what you do at that point is up to you----but you will get some satisfaction vs. this scum, who has helped wreck all of your lives


----------



## Chaparral

Most hreads that ende up reconcied start out his bad or worse. The thing is, its best for every one invlved to break up the affair, reconcilliation or not. She doesn't need posom and a lawyer both fomenting trouble. Posom needs to have to protect his job,reputation and pay his own lawyer fees.

As far as cheaterville goes, all you have to worry about is telling the truth ats you know it. If he gets away with setting up a "workout class" for women teachers at his school to pick himself a mate, then everyone here has failed.


----------



## Chaparral

jnj express said:


> For starters---you may wanna wait till D is final, and have a peaceful settlement----then drop the bomb on the lover
> 
> You can file the suit yourself---go to the law library, everything is there that you would need---and a paralegeal can help you write it up---then file it, like I said, your cost 3 filing fees----whether you go on, at that point is up to you------and whether your atty wants to get involved or let it drop, is up to the both of you,-------meanwhile---
> 
> You will have scared the lover so sh*tless----he won't know which side is up---CUZ HE MUST ANSWER, W/IN A MONTH-------and that is gonna cost him a lot of greenbacks, cuz he will HAVE TO HIRE AN ATTY TO ANSWER, --------what you do at that point is up to you----but you will get some satisfaction vs. this scum, who has helped wreck all of your lives


I've seen this advice given here often. I have yet to see anyone follow through. By the end they have defeated themselves and just want it to all go away.

There are many here though have fought a good battle and feel good in the end.


----------



## dadof2

jnj express said:


> For starters---you may wanna wait till D is final, and have a peaceful settlement----then drop the bomb on the lover
> 
> You can file the suit yourself---go to the law library, everything is there that you would need---and a paralegeal can help you write it up---then file it, like I said, your cost 3 filing fees----whether you go on, at that point is up to you------and whether your atty wants to get involved or let it drop, is up to the both of you,-------meanwhile---
> 
> You will have scared the lover so sh*tless----he won't know which side is up---CUZ HE MUST ANSWER, W/IN A MONTH-------and that is gonna cost him a lot of greenbacks, cuz he will HAVE TO HIRE AN ATTY TO ANSWER, --------what you do at that point is up to you----but you will get some satisfaction vs. this scum, who has helped wreck all of your lives


Our divorce won't be final for over a year. Who knows how things will be then. I wish there was something I could do now to let her know that I know what she has been doing with OM and to let everyone else that she has lied to see the truth for what it is.

That's why I'm glad the PI got footage of them together 2 days this weekend. Even if its not enough to bring an adultery charge, it is hard evidence I can use as leverage to get a fair settlement, or even to back up what I tell her family and coworkers. 

It is such a weird situation. She started working at this school in January and didn't know a soul there. A few months later she is working out after school and going out on weekends with the other teachers. POSOM is one of about 5 men that teach there, and he is 38 and divorced. He goes out with the women and works his way into the friend zone with them. Of course leave it to my wife to be the one he has successfully wooed into his arms. Apparently several of her fellow teachers are around her age and divorced with kids, so all she is hearing is that its ok and she doesn't need a husband to be happy. She told me on DDay that POSOM tells her how good looking she is and how I am stupid not to realize how good I have it with her. Is that all it takes for a woman to walk away from her marriage and children? Obviously she must have had these thoughts already in her head and he just allowed her an escape to make the thoughts real.

I am still so broken over this, I literally don't know how I am going to make it. I have no motivation to do anything. Some days are better than others, especially when I have the kids with me. But they left today for a week at the beach. My brother texted me and saw STBX's mom and sister put a picture of them already there and saying they can't wait to see STBX and kids. It tears me apart that they are going to have a fun week and not even think about what she has done. She has them all fooled that I am some monster. Yet they have no idea of the depth of her relationship with OM. They haven't talked about him since DDay over a month ago. She told them it was a one time thing and a mistake but it showed her that she wanted out of the marriage.


----------



## dadof2

jnj express said:


> For starters---you may wanna wait till D is final, and have a peaceful settlement----then drop the bomb on the lover
> 
> You can file the suit yourself---go to the law library, everything is there that you would need---and a paralegeal can help you write it up---then file it, like I said, your cost 3 filing fees----whether you go on, at that point is up to you------and whether your atty wants to get involved or let it drop, is up to the both of you,-------meanwhile---
> 
> You will have scared the lover so sh*tless----he won't know which side is up---CUZ HE MUST ANSWER, W/IN A MONTH-------and that is gonna cost him a lot of greenbacks, cuz he will HAVE TO HIRE AN ATTY TO ANSWER, --------what you do at that point is up to you----but you will get some satisfaction vs. this scum, who has helped wreck all of your lives


I did some more research into this charge. On the surface it looks like I have a legit complaint, but the more I dug in I found that most cases in my state dealing with this charge in a divorce are dismissed. My state doesn't recognize alienation of affection and the few decisions I have read have dismissd the IIED charge on the grounds that it falls under alienation of affection, which my state does not recognize.

I still think I could make the charge knowing all along will be dismissed, but at least make him have to lawyer up. But it could also backfire and once its dismissed they will have another "victory" and it will make me look like a crazy XH and make them become closer.


----------



## walkonmars

You can pretty much count on stbx telling her parents that she doesn't know how she could have coped with this trying time without their support and the support of "friends" such as the OM who have been stalwarts in supporting her emotionally. 

She'll also take every opportunity to reveal once again how ashamed she is of herself for putting up with you for so long and trying to make the best of a bad situation for the sake of the kids but thank gawd that her friends have been there for her. 

Count on it. 

So no matter what you reveal to them about the OM at this point will be moot. In fact, they'll be thrilled to see her having fun for a change and dismiss your claims of infidelity as demented innuendo. 

Her bosses OTOH won't be quite as fooled. And if she's truly only known OM for a few months it's very likely that their relationship is running on PEA only and won't last very long. 

In fact, next school term will bring at least a handful of new possible recruits for the OM's inspection - and he'll likely take every opportunity to begin inspections during inservice days. Count on that too. 

You'll be fine. Take care of your kids.


----------



## dadof2

walkonmars said:


> *You can pretty much count on stbx telling her parents that she doesn't know how she could have coped with this trying time without their support and the support of "friends" such as the OM who have been stalwarts in supporting her emotionally.
> 
> She'll also take every opportunity to reveal once again how ashamed she is of herself for putting up with you for so long and trying to make the best of a bad situation for the sake of the kids but thank gawd that her friends have been there for her.*
> 
> Count on it.
> 
> So no matter what you reveal to them about the OM at this point will be moot. In fact, *they'll be thrilled to see her having fun for a change and dismiss your claims of infidelity as demented innuendo. *


Yes I believe you are spot on. When DDay hit, her mom was calling and texting me for about 2 weeks with all kinds of support for me, sorry that her daughter did this etc. Then STBX moved out, and suddenly the calls and texts stopped. It was obvious that STBX was now able to talk to them and tell them what she wanted them to hear. I have not spoken with in-laws in about a month now. I have written a 3 page letter to them now that I have proof of the affair from this past weekend. I have not given it to them and probably never will. I am afraid you are right, that they will dismiss it and allow her to explain it away. They would possibly even say that this is her moving on and they are glad that she is finally happy again. I would like to say yes she's happy, but she walked away from a marriage and wrecked a 3 year old and 2 year old's lives just so she can be "happy."


----------



## EleGirl

jnj express said:


> Hey dad------you have an out---it will not be agst. your wife who has wrecked your life, and will now send your kids into split homes. Tho in this situation---it sounds like that is the best outcome---2 reasonably happy homes (in time) as opposed to one home where there is nothing but misery going on---the split homes will be much better------anyway, to get to your evening the score----
> 
> You file a civil suit for INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS---agst your wife's lover----you file an action for yourself, and an action for each of your kids------and make the sued for amt. around $500,000 for each of the 3 of you. I promise you, that will wake your wife's lover up real fast. He is gonna spend some big bucks with an atty., for he will have only one month to answer THREE CIVIL SUITS, or he defaults-----
> 
> You could actually go to the law library, learn about the above tort, make sure the elements are all there, and file the suits yourself----your cost, 3 filing fees, and some time-----his cost----THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS


Can the OM turn it around and ask that DAD845 pay his fees as it's a frivolous suit since the OP has no real proof of an affair?

I ask because my 2nd husband had full custody of his children but was required to send them for 4 weeks every summer to visit their mother in another state. He filed to prevent future visits based her alcoholism, drug use and abuse of the children. Well she showed up in court (the only time in 15 years that she actually showed real interest in the children). She cried in court and this impressed the judge. So the judge said that she kept her rights to the visits and the judge slapped my husband with all of your legal costs. This despite absolute proof of what was claimed against her to include statements by the children.


----------



## EleGirl

seeking sanity said:


> I've been there and actually found this post trigger-y, but I think you're being an idiot by pursuing exposure for the sake of getting OM and exWW fired.
> 
> I know you are hurting and it seems like she's living the high life, but your BEST course of action is to get your sh*t together, accept the marriage is over, and live an awesome life. She'll come down from her high and realize what a b*tch she was at some point.
> 
> Revenge is stupid and a waste of energy.
> 
> The best medicine for you right now is to start getting laid, find some friends, take up golf, or kickboxing, or whatever. Get a life, move on.


:iagree: The best revenge is for the OP to move on and have a very good life without her.


----------



## lisab0105

Can you appeal the restraining order at all? Make a case that she is basically committing slander?


----------



## weightlifter

Nm


----------



## jnj express

1st ----Dad---hang in there----things are hard---and the days will seem bleak---but in time---it will get better----the sun comes out every day---and one of these days---YOU WILL NOTICE IT

for dad/elle girl, as to the Emotional Distress----it is legit---and if the case is put on properly, and you check legal precedent------you will find jurisdictions where this tort stood on its own, and was upheld, based on its own merits

The key element is OUTRAGEOUS CONDUCT---and the OM, is conducting himself in a horrible manner---in that he is knowingly and willingly, participating in, breaking up another family

Nothing can be turned around on you---this is not a frivolous action by any means----after you file, and he answers----its up to you whether, you take it into a courtroom---but in the meantime---he had to spend lots of dollars, filing the answer---and in your case it would/should be 3 answers---no matter what---hang in there---life will get better


----------



## Mr Blunt

Let your attorney handle the legal part and you start rebuilding your self esteem and get ready to win in the future. IOW, *CONSENTRATE ON YOU IMPROVING YOU without the depressing and paralyzing thoughts about your wife affecting you so much.*


Your wife has a serous character flaw and is not the girl that you married. You long for that girl because your heart is hurt and you have to not let your heart rule in this situation. She has chosen her desires over her marriage and her children. That is a very serious selfish action and is not worthy of any admiration or longing for her at all. Your statement of “But my heart still sees her as the girl I married and longs for her” is unfortunately detrimental to you. *You need to take the hurts that you have and get angry and use that anger to rebuild yourself so that you can have a very good life with or without her.*


some situations in life do not give a shyt about feelings and emotions and require the jungle kingdom life; *only the strong survive! *


----------



## EleGirl

lisab0105 said:


> Can you appeal the restraining order at all? Make a case that she is basically committing slander?


He can put in his reply a rebuttal to her claims of abuse.

Some of the point he can make is that there was no physical abuse (if there was none) and this is substantiated by the fact that the police have never been called to address any kind of abuse.

He can also argue that there was no emotional abuse... this supported by the fact that she never sought any help for this kind of abuse.

The restraining order is curious... 

In my state, the court issues a restraining order with every divorce. It's not one that say that they parties cannot be in near each other. It's warning both parties to be civil, not stalk or harass each other, etc.

OP's wife showed up alone at his house to pick up the children. She is obviously not afraid of him. With a restraining order that states that he cannot come near her... it also means that she cannot come near him. So she violated the restraining order.

Since we don't have a copy of the order we don't know if it's a standard 'play nice' type order or if it's one that is much harsher.

DAD, since she is accusing you of abuse you need to take it very seriously. If the restraining order is not just a 'play nice' type order then do not ever allow her to come near you or your home. 

You can set up a neutral place where you drop off the children and she picks them up, and visa versa. The grandparent's place is good. A public venue is good. There are also organizations that do this for a fee.

Your lawyer could add this to your response, since she is falsely accusing your of abuse, you do not feel safe in her presence or with her on your property. and describe the arrangements you want to put in place as protection from false accusations.

What I did with my ex, as he was abusive and there were police reports, was that I had it setup that we exchanged custody at our houses. But the parent who was dropping off was the one who did the driving. Our son was to come to the door on his own, and go out to the car on his own. My ex was not allowed to come on my property or come to my front door. I of course followed the same rule. This was written up in our divorce.


----------



## EleGirl

jnj express said:


> 1st ----Dad---hang in there----things are hard---and the days will seem bleak---but in time---it will get better----the sun comes out every day---and one of these days---YOU WILL NOTICE IT
> 
> for dad/elle girl, as to the Emotional Distress----it is legit---and if the case is put on properly, and you check legal precedent------you will find jurisdictions where this tort stood on its own, and was upheld, based on its own merits
> 
> The key element is OUTRAGEOUS CONDUCT---and the OM, is conducting himself in a horrible manner---in that he is knowingly and willingly, participating in, breaking up another family
> 
> Nothing can be turned around on you---this is not a frivolous action by any means----after you file, and he answers----its up to you whether, you take it into a courtroom---but in the meantime---he had to spend lots of dollars, filing the answer---and in your case it would/should be 3 answers---no matter what---hang in there---life will get better


I would love to see something like this work. OP just needs to make sure he does it in a way that does not back fire on him. That's all.


----------



## southernsurf

dadof2 said:


> Now I just want revenge. I want her family to know what she is doing,
> I just want some type of vindication, but I am starting to realize that it may be harder to get any type of "justice" to satisfy me anyway.


Trust, the best revenge is to live a better life than the one you had with her, set higher goals, reach higher now that she is out of the way……..

Romans 12:19
Deuteronomy 32:35


----------



## davecarter

Chaparral said:


> If he gets away with setting up a "workout class" for women teachers at his school to pick himself a mate, then everyone here has failed.


Spot-on, Chap.
A lot of people will think men do this for their own ego, a kick or to get one over another man, but I posted this in another thread, about married-OMs who target other wives for sex, because they are in some way damaged or dysfunctional that they cannot have proper sexual relationships wither their own wives.
Therefore, they target someone else wife to project and act out their own, less-than-vanilla sexual preferences because they can't do it with their own wife.
That's sexual-dysfunction.

Single men, who go after married woman, that's slightly different. And really is about not being able to find a single woman of your own. Their m.o. is that married women are usually stuck in a domesticated situation and probably crave some excitment, so a bit of pushing, working and complimenting...usually, at least makes a married woman feel good or at worst, gets her to cheat / leave her marriage.

Just an idea...


----------



## jnj express

Hey Elegirl----if you want to make certain---the O M, cannot comeback at you---Dad would file this suit for each of his 2 SONS,-----if Dad wanted to not chance a court trying to tie this to alienation, which should NEVER HAPPEN---he could simply file the suit, in the name of each of his sons----they certainly have/will have EMOTIONAL DISTRESS---for the REST OF THEIR LIVES---in re: this situation


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> I agree with you and that is exactly what I want to do. The only thing I am afraid of is to make claims against them and tell them I will be seeking depositions without first talking to my lawyer. I can send the emails right now but if I don't have any hard evidence, then they will paint me as a crazy jealous exH and dismiss my claims. And I don't want to screw up any chance of continuing the search for a hard hit from a PI down the road to really nail them.


Don't tell them anything. Simply talk to your attorney, file suit and when they get served they will know. And don't forget their place of employment.


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> I just did a quick look at the tort, and all the elements seem to fit. I would love to do this. My question is how do I make my attorney go forward with it? I have heard how slow the process is and I know most attorneys don't like to rock the boat. Hopefully I can express to mine how much I want to file something to make these people feel a fraction of the hurt that I am experiencing.


Find a plaintiff attorney.


----------



## seeking sanity

I did almost all the same sh*t you are doing - Hunted for proof, felt outrage and betrayal at my former inlaws, sat at home feeling terrible and depressed, cycled through the events a million times. I've had a number of years to reflect on what I'd have done differently since then.

Once I started to move on, she started to want me. After several years of on and off again, we actual reconciled and it's been mostly pretty good. I could ONLY reconcile because I'd dated other women and come to the conclusion that I didn't see a better life elsewhere.

But that was my path. 

Really the stuff you are doing is about trying to maintain some control over something you can't control; and trying to make sense of an awful betrayal. Having someone you love abandon you is a profoundly difficult situation, especially when it is so callous. It makes you feel as if you are worthless. Some people never truly get over it.

The thing that helped me a great deal, was something I read, basically: "An affair is about the self-image of the person having the affair, it has nothing to do with the betrayed spouse." It's all her own f*cked up stuff. It's not really about you.

What you'll probably come to accept is that ultimately we are all alone in this world, and no matter what steps we take to guard against that, spouses and friends may abandon us. It's really a spiritual crisis, or at least it was/is for me.

I think you are well within your rights to disclose to her family, to your family, to your friends, and any one else. I do believe trying to get her or him fired is a mistake that will come back to bite you later on.


----------



## happyman64

dadof2

Stop thinking of her. Start thinking of you.
Stop thinking of her. And start thinking of how she has portrayed you as angry and abusive.
Stop thinking of her. And start planning your divorce so you can expose her lies.

Once past the divorce. Then you can start planning a better future without her in it.

Your wife is a liar.
Your wife is a cheater.
Your wife is making horrible decisions.

guess what? You can only control you and your actions.

Make them count.

HM

PS
I understand the feeling of being replaced. Guess what? In a few months you will come to realize that she did you a huge favor.

But more importantly, the affair and her walking out on the marriage had very, very little to do with you.

Your wife is lost. And you could not save her. Only she can do that now.

And from the decisions she is making she is going to be lost for awhile.

By exposing her lies and workplace affair maybe she will find herself a little quicker.


----------



## seeking sanity

> Originally Posted by Chaparral View Post
> If he gets away with setting up a "workout class" for women teachers at his school to pick himself a mate, then everyone here has failed.


I actually disagree with this quite a bit. It's no one's job to save people from themselves. If some doucey f*cker wants to hit on married women, that's his problem and any married women that falls for it. 

Our job is to help people who are asking to be helped. You can not save people.


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## frusdil

I would be very wary of doing anything right now to expose them publically. That's not to say you can't "let it slip" to someone at school what's happened, but don't go down the cheaterville route or suing. It won't get you anywhere in the long run, and you'll look like the poor, desperate, broken husband.

Don't give her the satisfaction. Go quiet. Reveal nothing. Just move on with your life, happy dad, happy kids and one day - happy stepmum.

Your wife is likely to end up single and very depressed. The odds of a relationship that started as an affair going long term are less than 5%. There's your revenge right there


----------



## Chaparral

frusdil said:


> I would be very wary of doing anything right now to expose them publically. That's not to say you can't "let it slip" to someone at school what's happened, but don't go down the cheaterville route or suing. It won't get you anywhere in the long run, and you'll look like the poor, desperate, broken husband.
> 
> Don't give her the satisfaction. Go quiet. Reveal nothing. Just move on with your life, happy dad, happy kids and one day - happy stepmum.
> 
> Your wife is likely to end up single and very depressed. The odds of a relationship that started as an affair going long term are less than 5%. There's your revenge right there


I assume you have a long list of success stories that have followed this advice. There is certainly many many people here that have been extremely happy with exposure and cheaterville. I haven't seen anyone unhappy with the results. Just sayin


----------



## GusPolinski

Chaparral said:


> I assume you have a long list of success stories that have followed this advice. There is certainly many many people here that have been extremely happy with exposure and cheaterville. I haven't seen anyone unhappy with the results. Just sayin


Depends on OP's desired outcome, IMO. If he wants to reconcile, expose far and wide. If not, wait until after divorce is final in order to mitigate alimony to the degree possible.

Comments made about suing the school district are interesting; obviously that would require workplace exposure. But what would the goal be? To break up the affair for the purposes of reconciliation? It sounds like WW is past that point, or very near it, so this may only drive her and OM closer together.

No, as to whether or not this would impact alimony... who knows? WW obviously has the credentials required to teach, which might limit any alimony awarded, but this would seem to be a gamble at best. I'd ask the lawyer about it, though most of them seem to advise in the interest of not straying from the quickest path to divorce.

I can see wanting to save face, especially since WW has alleged abuse. And I'd definitely counter-file citing infidelity. I'd also be certain to make mention of her obvious substance abuse problems. Again, I'd talk w/ the lawyer.

OP, is there anything to back up the abuse charges?


----------



## frusdil

Chaparral said:


> I assume you have a long list of success stories that have followed this advice. There is certainly many many people here that have been extremely happy with exposure and cheaterville. I haven't seen anyone unhappy with the results. Just sayin


You also need to consider the OP's children and the OM's children in all this. They are innocent victims of selfish adults. They're going through enough, they don't need anymore stress or turmoil.

God knows the OP's wife sure as hell isn't considering their children so he has to.


----------



## happyman64

frusdil said:


> You also need to consider the OP's children and the OM's children in all this. They are innocent victims of selfish adults. They're going through enough, they don't need anymore stress or turmoil.
> 
> God knows the OP's wife sure as hell isn't considering their children so he has to.


While I would normally agree since there are children involved, however, I do not in this case.

His wife is a WAW.
His wife has painted him as violent and abusive.

She needs to be shown consequences now, not later.

I also think if he shows her consequences now his divorce will go in his direction.


----------



## jnj express

One could not sue the school district, unless this guy was doing his thing as part of a type of teacher education/enhancement program, where teachers were forced to take the class, and it was given with school district sanctioning---and I am sure that never happened

What you can do, is go to the supt. of the school district, and make it very plain to him, that this guy is targeting/hitting on married teachers, you can bring up the fact that you certainly do not want any teacher who is supposed to have the public trust, and is supposed to be forming/shaping/guiding the lives of children, to be around other peoples children, if he himself has no problem with being a homewrecker, and ruining the lives of the children, who are now facing a split home situation-------I am willing to bet there is a MORALS clause in the O M/s teaching contract-----what you do, is tell the supt. unless he cans this guy, you will make life very miserable for the supt., and the school board----there are lots of ways to do that,-----so that also is another out.

If you really want this guy---there are ways to nail him for his contribution to the destruction of your family.

I am a firm believer, that the one and only person liable/responsible for all of this is the person who took HOLY VOWS with you----they are the one who is s'pose to PROTECT the family, and yet here they are fully participating in the DESTRUCTION of the family----------BUT--------IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO---and your wife sure as he*l couldn't have an A. with herself---so her lover does have culpability, and if you want his a*s then go for it.


----------



## EleGirl

jnj express said:


> I am a firm believer, that the one and only person liable/responsible for all of this is the person who took HOLY VOWS with you----they are the one who is s'pose to PROTECT the family, and yet here they are fully participating in the DESTRUCTION of the family


:iagree:

A lot of people seem to forget this. Many are more angry at the affair partner then at their cheating spouse. I've never understood this.

My take on it was that the husband's APs were nothing, dirt. why would I waste time on dirt.

He is the one I was angry and upset with.


----------



## LongWalk

Suing seems nonsensical to me. The success rate of such legal actions must be low. It will be expensive. Who says teachers cannot fall in love?

Cheaterville has worked for many.

You need to protect yourself from any baseless claims of abuse.

Your wife is gone. Accept that. If this new relationship doesn't last, it still sounds like she is checked out.


----------



## jnj express

teachers can fall in love---SINGLE TEACHERS WITH OTHER SINGLE TEACHERS-------anything else is cheating----or do I have my definitions wrong

You would be very surprised about legal possibilities-------the beauty of the process is------as would work here------the plaintiff, does not have to take this into a courtroom----but if he/she files a complaint---the defendant has ONE MONTH TO ANSWER OR he/she DEFAULTS-----that answer can cost the defendant a whole lot of green---and if one is going to do nothing more than file a complaint---any reasonably intelligent person, can go to the law library, use its resources, and write out a complaint----and if necessary have a para-legal prepare the complaint for you-------so once again---your cost is nothing more than the filing fees.

As to cheaterville---it is effective ONLY FOR THOSE WHO use/look at it-----I have no idea how many use cheaterville----but a whole lot of cheaters do their thing with all kinds of people---WHO NEVER LOOK AT CHEATERVILLE


----------



## davecarter

jnj express said:


> teachers can fall in love---SINGLE TEACHERS WITH OTHER SINGLE TEACHERS-------anything else is cheating----or do I have my definitions wrong
> 
> You would be very surprised about legal possibilities-------the beauty of the process is------as would work here------the plaintiff, does not have to take this into a courtroom----but if he/she files a complaint---the defendant has ONE MONTH TO ANSWER OR he/she DEFAULTS-----that answer can cost the defendant a whole lot of green---and if one is going to do nothing more than file a complaint---any reasonably intelligent person, can go to the law library, use its resources, and write out a complaint----and if necessary have a para-legal prepare the complaint for you-------so once again---your cost is nothing more than the filing fees.
> 
> As to cheaterville---it is effective ONLY FOR THOSE WHO use/look at it-----I have no idea how many use cheaterville----but a whole lot of cheaters do their thing with all kinds of people---WHO NEVER LOOK AT CHEATERVILLE


Exactly.
That's why, aside form the very rare occasion that it works, Cheaterville is really, not much of a useful tool.

Firstly, why would anyone, man or woman, see their other halves getting overly-friendly with another person and think, _"Hmmm...this looks a bit off. I don't trust that OM/OW.
I know! Perhaps they're in the Cheaterville database. I'll go and check!"_
Not happening.
By the time a BS actually gets round to being made aware of Cheaterville and checking it, their wife or husband is already in the affair.

Secondly, once you have disocvered your wife/husband is cheating and you decide to post the OM/OW on Cheaterville....so what?
Unless that link is made known to a wider area, it's not going to affect the OM/OW in any way.

And unless it's legally water-tight, a lot of these CV posts get taken down anyway - BS tends to panic / cave-in when he slightest counter-threat is made.


Sorry, Cheaterville fans.


----------



## LongWalk

Does the school have a rule forbidding sexual relationships between colleagues. If so, a lawsuit should work. I doubt such a rule if it exists would distinguish between adultery and ordinary dating.

If the OM is her superior, WW might have grounds for a lawsuit, e.g., sexual harassment. But she has welcomed his attentions.

Cheaterville has usually worked.


----------



## GusPolinski

jnj express said:


> As to cheaterville---it is effective ONLY FOR THOSE WHO use/look at it-----I have no idea how many use cheaterville----but a whole lot of cheaters do their thing with all kinds of people---WHO NEVER LOOK AT CHEATERVILLE





davecarter said:


> Exactly.
> That's why, aside form the very rare occasion that it works, Cheaterville is really, not much of a useful tool.
> 
> Firstly, why would anyone, man or woman, see their other halves getting overly-friendly with another person and think, _"Hmmm...this looks a bit off. I don't trust that OM/OW.
> I know! Perhaps they're in the Cheaterville database. I'll go and check!"_
> Not happening.
> By the time a BS actually gets round to being made aware of Cheaterville and checking it, their wife or husband is already in the affair.
> 
> Secondly, once you have disocvered your wife/husband is cheating and you decide to post the OM/OW on Cheaterville....so what?
> Unless that link is made known to a wider area, it's not going to affect the OM/OW in any way.
> 
> And unless it's legally water-tight, a lot of these CV posts get taken down anyway - BS tends to panic / cave-in when he slightest counter-threat is made.
> 
> Sorry, Cheaterville fans.


It's not that anyone uses CV, it's that *everyone uses Google*.


----------



## Chaparral

LongWalk said:


> Does the school have a rule forbidding sexual relationships between colleagues. If so, a lawsuit should work. I doubt such a rule if it exists would distinguish between adultery and ordinary dating.
> 
> If the OM is her superior, WW might have grounds for a lawsuit, e.g., sexual harassment. But she has welcomed his attentions.
> 
> Cheaterville has usually worked.


He is the asst principal, the system can be sued because he is her boss I would think. How that works idk but other husbands here have sued for sexual harrasment here.


----------



## jnj express

If her lover is a VP---then he can be canned, based on morals---he is in a position of authority, he is handing out punishments to kids who are sent to him, for discipline violations in the classroom-----He is giving these, and other kids advice---------what district would want a PUA/Cheater having that kind of power over young children's lives----------------BS needs to call the District Office immediately, and demand this guys resignation, he also needs to tell them if they do not act, he will take the info. public----he should have no fear in making the accusations if his info. is fact, as he can't be touched by the lover if the BS, is telling what he knows to be the TRUTH


----------



## tom67

jnj express said:


> If her lover is a VP---then he can be canned, based on morals---he is in a position of authority, he is handing out punishments to kids who are sent to him, for discipline violations in the classroom-----He is giving these, and other kids advice---------what district would want a PUA/Cheater having that kind of power over young children's lives----------------BS needs to call the District Office immediately, and demand this guys resignation, he also needs to tell them if they do not act, he will take the info. public----he should have no fear in making the accusations if his info. is fact, as he can't be touched by the lover if the BS, is telling what he knows to be the TRUTH


Hey maybe he beats the rap but he can't beat the ride.
Make him/the school have to defend themselves you won't know if you don't try.


----------



## lordmayhem

Chaparral said:


> He is the asst principal, the system can be sued because he is her boss I would think. How that works idk but other husbands here have sued for sexual harrasment here.


And the media loves scandals like this because of the ratings.


----------



## davecarter

GusPolinski said:


> It's not that anyone uses CV, it's that *everyone uses Google*.


What? To look for potential men/women who, just _might_, have their eye on your spouse? :scratchhead:


----------



## GusPolinski

davecarter said:


> What? To look for potential men/women who, just _might_, have their eye on your spouse? :scratchhead:


That and more, yes. Not a random someone, mind you, but a specific someone. 

If, for example, my wife were to suddenly start talking about some new person at work, and I found it at all unsettling, I'd likely start digging to get as much information as I could on that person.

Additionally, HR departments use Google to get information on applicants all the time.

Given both of these examples, I'd be willing to bet that the single biggest mistake that people make when employing CV is in NOT recruiting a small army of friends, family, TAMers, or whoever to refresh the living crap out of OM's/OW's CV listing, thereby upping the hits, and driving the listing to the first page of Google's search results for OM/OW.


----------



## thatbpguy

Were it me, I'd do the following in this case:

1) Do file against the employer for "creating an atmosphere of infidelity" and " misappropriation of official resources for illicit use"... and subpoena all their emails. Those will tell the tale. 

2) If the emails show a sexual betrayal, then use those in the divorce.

3) I'd still consider a lawsuit against them. It may be possible to file in a different state that may be more readily acceptable to that type of suit.

4) Start a blog (go to blogspot…) about their betrayal and post their lies and emails…. Use their names in it (ie, "Sarah Smith and Tom Jones- Our Story of Love") so if their names are googled, this will come up, and there are ways to search for it repeatedly so that anyone who does a google search will be sure to have it at the top of the list and they are fully exposed.

5) And, yes, place it on Cheaterville. I don’t think much of the site, but it never hurts. 

If he loses his job for soliciting sex from a subordinate via official use of employer resources, most employers do a google search and they will pop up. And employers need to know if they are hiring a potential problem employee. Who needs men like this hitting on weaker women all the time?


----------



## EleGirl

davecarter said:


> Exactly.
> That's why, aside form the very rare occasion that it works, Cheaterville is really, not much of a useful tool.
> 
> Firstly, why would anyone, man or woman, see their other halves getting overly-friendly with another person and think, _"Hmmm...this looks a bit off. I don't trust that OM/OW.
> I know! Perhaps they're in the Cheaterville database. I'll go and check!"_
> Not happening.
> By the time a BS actually gets round to being made aware of Cheaterville and checking it, their wife or husband is already in the affair.
> 
> Secondly, once you have disocvered your wife/husband is cheating and you decide to post the OM/OW on Cheaterville....so what?
> Unless that link is made known to a wider area, it's not going to affect the OM/OW in any way.
> 
> And unless it's legally water-tight, a lot of these CV posts get taken down anyway - BS tends to panic / cave-in when he slightest counter-threat is made.
> 
> 
> Sorry, Cheaterville fans.


:iagree:


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> I hate the fact that she doesn't feel any guilt or remorse for what she's doing. I hate the fact that no one is calling her out for her bull****. And I hate the fact that I cannot get this situation off my mind from more than a few minutes, while I may cross her mind maybe a few minutes a day.


Did you expose to everyone?


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> I am still so broken over this, I literally don't know how I am going to make it. I have no motivation to do anything. Some days are better than others, especially when I have the kids with me.


Have you gone to your doctor to get antidepressants?


----------



## dadof2

Thanks for all the solid posts, guys. I really appreciate the advice. I am not sure about the cheaterville route, I had never heard of the site before I got on TAM, so I don't think many in our area use it.

I had the PI on her this weekend, and he got them together Friday night from 8-11 at his place, but no PDA and no lights out in bedroom. (This is what the courts want to see for proof of adultery) He also had them together running errand on Saturday from 2-5 then to a friends house from 5-8 and his house from 8-10. Sadly, they didn't get any hard hits that will stand up in court. But it does give me proof of a relationship, and along with her admission that they "kissed" while we were still together, I think I can use this in my exposure. I am meeting with my lawyer this week, and I want to ask them the best way to go about the exposure. If we are going to continue with the PI, then I will wait as to not tip my hand. If lawyer feels like we aren't going to get adultery, then I may move forward with exposure to her principal. I don't know if I should just sit down with him personally and explain, or let my lawyer file a complaint. I doubt she will want to do that, but I need to tell her I am serious about doing something major to expose.

I don't think I will sue the OM as it will make me look petty and probably draw STBX and OM closer together. But I think a sit down with the principal of the school and possibly the superintendent would at least get their wheels turning.


----------



## Chaparral

lordmayhem said:


> And the media loves scandals like this because of the ratings.


Like............VICE PRINCIPAL RUNS HAREM IN LOCAL SCHOOL. PARENTS IN SHOCK. ?


----------



## Chaparral

The best use of cheaterville is to post it third person, as if its not you posting. Then send him the link to it via their anonnymous email service. We have seen the sh!t hit the fan quite regularly here. It works great and as long as you tell the truth as you really believe it, there is no liability for you. They won't sue because everyone that could possibly know about it, would have to rtestify and it goes into the permanent public records. Hehe


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for all the solid posts, guys. I really appreciate the advice. I am not sure about the cheaterville route, I had never heard of the site before I got on TAM, so I don't think many in our area use it.
> 
> I had the PI on her this weekend, and he got them together Friday night from 8-11 at his place, but no PDA and no lights out in bedroom. (This is what the courts want to see for proof of adultery) He also had them together running errand on Saturday from 2-5 then to a friends house from 5-8 and his house from 8-10. Sadly, they didn't get any hard hits that will stand up in court. But it does give me proof of a relationship, and along with her admission that they "kissed" while we were still together, I think I can use this in my exposure. I am meeting with my lawyer this week, and I want to ask them the best way to go about the exposure. If we are going to continue with the PI, then I will wait as to not tip my hand. If lawyer feels like we aren't going to get adultery, then I may move forward with exposure to her principal. I don't know if I should just sit down with him personally and explain, or let my lawyer file a complaint. I doubt she will want to do that, but I need to tell her I am serious about doing something major to expose.
> 
> I don't think I will sue the OM as it will make me look petty and probably draw STBX and OM closer together. But I think a sit down with the principal of the school and possibly the superintendent would at least get their wheels turning.


For what it's worth, "sit downs" rarely work. 

Just file. That works best.


----------



## 3putt

dadof2 said:


> *I don't think I will sue the OM as it will make me look petty *and probably draw STBX and OM closer together. But I think a sit down with the principal of the school and possibly the superintendent would at least get their wheels turning.


Nobody said anything about actually suing. Just imply the possibility to the principal, superintendent and any other district heads to light a fire under their asses. 

You also don't need to sit down with anyone to do this. You can expose using the workplace exposure template I provided you in my first link.


----------



## tom67

3putt said:


> Nobody said anything about actually suing. Just imply the possibility to the principal, superintendent and any other district heads to light a fire under their asses.
> 
> You also don't need to sit down with anyone to do this. You can expose using the workplace exposure template I provided you in my first link.


Tell the principal you are keeping your legal options open that way he will be wondering whether you will sue or not and he may have to act so you don't.
Use that.


----------



## thatbpguy

tom67 said:


> Tell the principal you are keeping your legal options open that way he will be wondering whether you will sue or not and he may have to act so you don't.
> Use that.


tom67, I love ya like a brother, but I have to disagree.

This is a situation to not screw around with. I may do this, I may do that... that allows for a ton of problems- to include destruction of evidence. 

Just file, serve and present a subpoena for all email exchanges between the two of them. Boom!

Let the lawyers deal with it from there. 

All these sit downs, threats, inuendos.... are just a lot of window dressing crap.


----------



## tom67

thatbpguy said:


> tom67, I love ya like a brother, but I have to disagree.
> 
> This is a situation to not screw around with. I may do this, I may do that... that allows for a ton of problems- to include destruction of evidence.
> 
> Just file, serve and present a subpoena for all email exchanges between the two of them. Boom!
> 
> Let the lawyers deal with it from there.
> 
> All these sit downs, threats, inuendos.... are just a lot of window dressing crap.


:iagree::iagree:
Then it's public record.


----------



## happyman64

> I don't think I will sue the OM as it will make me look petty and probably draw STBX and OM closer together. But I think a sit down with the principal of the school and possibly the superintendent would at least get their wheels turning.


Don't sue him. Just drag him through the mud. Have him brought to court for a deposition.

It will certainly not draw them closer. Stop caring if it does or not.

You will not look petty. But you better look pissed off!! Because you should be pissed off.

If she can throw 10 years put the door in a matter of months you can give them 10 years worth of grief for a few months.

HM


----------



## davecarter

GusPolinski said:


> That and more, yes. Not a random someone, mind you, but a specific someone.
> 
> If, for example, my wife were to suddenly start talking about some new person at work, and I found it at all unsettling, I'd likely start digging to get as much information as I could on that person.


Why would you find it _'all unsettling'_? :scratchhead:
If you can't handle your girlfruiend or wife talking to other men without reaching for the _'He's-an-OM! Quick! Hit-The-Red-Cheater-Button' _then that says a lot more about you than it does your other half.

Fact is, as soon as you have any sign at all, that your other half is shagging someone else.....then they _already are_, shagging someone else.


----------



## GusPolinski

davecarter said:


> Why would you find it _'all unsettling'_? :scratchhead:
> If you can't handle your girlfruiend or wife talking to other men without reaching for the _'He's-an-OM! Quick! Hit-The-Red-Cheater-Button' _then that says a lot more about you than it does your other half.
> 
> Fact is, as soon as you have any sign at all, that your other half is shagging someone else.....then they _already are_, shagging someone else.


Whoa there... Jump to conclusions much? Need one of these?










My wife is self-employed and is constantly talking to different people throughout the day every day. The nature of her work pretty much requires it, and I don't have a problem w/ it.

What I'm saying is that, if she were to begin talking somewhat _obsessively_ about a _specific_ person (whether male or female), I'd probably get the impression that the two of them were spending a good deal of time together. Naturally, I'd want to know more about that person.

Now, would I instantly run to CV? LOL, no. I probably wouldn't even start w/ Google. I'd likely start w/ FB, and then proceed from there.

So... precisely what, in your mind, does this odd habit of _actively listening_ to my wife say about me?


----------



## How am I Going to Surviv

happyman64 said:


> Don't sue him. Just drag him through the mud. Have him brought to court for a deposition.
> 
> ...
> HM



I can't picture a sit down either making you look good or furthering your cause. It'll just make you look whiny and give them a head's up for damage control mode. 

Go for shock and awe: Don't tell anybody (except your lawyer, of course). Just have him served a summons for a deposition- at work. Or have the School served and name names. 

Do something that'll make him sh!t his pants. If your lawyer won't do it, find one that will.

Which do you want? Him thinking, "I wish that whiny sod would just shut up already" or "Oh, sh!t!"? 

It's your life and your decision, but you deserve watching them squirm.


----------



## mahike

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for all the solid posts, guys. I really appreciate the advice. I am not sure about the cheaterville route, I had never heard of the site before I got on TAM, so I don't think many in our area use it.
> 
> I had the PI on her this weekend, and he got them together Friday night from 8-11 at his place, but no PDA and no lights out in bedroom. (This is what the courts want to see for proof of adultery) He also had them together running errand on Saturday from 2-5 then to a friends house from 5-8 and his house from 8-10. Sadly, they didn't get any hard hits that will stand up in court. But it does give me proof of a relationship, and along with her admission that they "kissed" while we were still together, I think I can use this in my exposure. I am meeting with my lawyer this week, and I want to ask them the best way to go about the exposure. If we are going to continue with the PI, then I will wait as to not tip my hand. If lawyer feels like we aren't going to get adultery, then I may move forward with exposure to her principal. I don't know if I should just sit down with him personally and explain, or let my lawyer file a complaint. I doubt she will want to do that, but I need to tell her I am serious about doing something major to expose.
> 
> I don't think I will sue the OM as it will make me look petty and probably draw STBX and OM closer together. But I think a sit down with the principal of the school and possibly the superintendent would at least get their wheels turning.


My wife's PA was with a High School teacher and coach, He was emailing her on the schools email system and also texting during school hours. When I exposed I sent a letter to the Principal, the Super and the School Board along with copies of a few of the emails and texts to show the date and time stamps. He also took her to a football camp he was working at out of town. I provided the proof of that one as well.

He is still a PE teacher at the school but he is no longer a coach.

I do know that everyone at the school did find out. The Principal was yelling so load from his office that the staff heard almost everything. When he went fishing again about a year later I called the Principal and asked him if he was ready for a lawsuit. That was the end


----------



## SF-FAN

dadof2 said:


> Our divorce won't be final for over a year. Who knows how things will be then. I wish there was something I could do now to let her know that I know what she has been doing with OM and to let everyone else that she has lied to see the truth for what it is.
> 
> That's why I'm glad the PI got footage of them together 2 days this weekend. Even if its not enough to bring an adultery charge, it is hard evidence I can use as leverage to get a fair settlement, or even to back up what I tell her family and coworkers.
> 
> It is such a weird situation. She started working at this school in January and didn't know a soul there. A few months later she is working out after school and going out on weekends with the other teachers. POSOM is one of about 5 men that teach there, and he is 38 and divorced. He goes out with the women and works his way into the friend zone with them. Of course leave it to my wife to be the one he has successfully wooed into his arms. Apparently several of her fellow teachers are around her age and divorced with kids, so all she is hearing is that its ok and she doesn't need a husband to be happy. She told me on DDay that POSOM tells her how good looking she is and how I am stupid not to realize how good I have it with her. Is that all it takes for a woman to walk away from her marriage and children? Obviously she must have had these thoughts already in her head and he just allowed her an escape to make the thoughts real.
> 
> I am still so broken over this, I literally don't know how I am going to make it. I have no motivation to do anything. Some days are better than others, especially when I have the kids with me. But they left today for a week at the beach. My brother texted me and saw STBX's mom and sister put a picture of them already there and saying they can't wait to see STBX and kids. *It tears me apart that they are going to have a fun week and not even think about what she has done. She has them all fooled that I am some monster. Yet they have no idea of the depth of her relationship with OM. They haven't talked about him since DDay over a month ago. She told them it was a one time thing and a mistake but it showed her that she wanted out of the marriage.*


My WW tried doing the same exact thing. For months (without me knowing) she called her parents telling them I was a monster and abusive in every way. She told them that she was living in misery every day. Her parents finally got fed up and talked to me about it to which I was floored. I told them our marriage was fine (not perfect) but fine and I had no idea what she was talking about. Her parents know how she is so they sided with me. She decided to move out as well "to get some space" and told her family the same thing. Come to find out, she was cheating so now everyone hates her for lying. I don't see how any parents would support their son/daughter cheating and ruining a marriage. I am surprised you have not exposed yet. I didn't need to because it came to light in other ways but let me tell you, it rocked her world!!


----------



## jnj express

best way to handle the lover in re: school district----

go to an open public school board meeting, and without naming names at that time, if naming names bothers you---bring up what the V P is doing, when the time comes for the public/taxpayers to bring up things that are bothering them------state the whole situation, then ask the board ---IS THAT THE WAY THEY WANT THEIR SCHOOL DISTRICT RUN----------watch the rats leave the sinking ship


----------



## turnera

So you have NOT exposed?


----------



## dadof2

turnera said:


> So you have NOT exposed?


Her parents knew what happened on DDay about 6 weeks ago. STBX admitted to "kissing" OM and then swept it under the rug and started gas lighting the hell out of me. Her parents were upset with her for about a week but then she moved out for "space" and "time to figure things out". She has been out of the house for a month with LC about kids only. I had a PI on her this weekend and he got her at OM's house both days. I have not exposed this yet because I am waiting to meet with my attorney on Friday. We may not have enough proof to get adultery in court. If that is the case I plan on filing suit against the schools district and will start serving people for depositions. If we think we can get more evidence for adultery, then I will sit tight and expose nothing yet until we get the needed proof for adultery. 

I just don't want to wait much longer, we have already been separated a month, so soon it will be no big deal that they are together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt

dadof2 said:


> Her parents knew what happened on DDay about 6 weeks ago. STBX admitted to "kissing" OM and then swept it under the rug and started gas lighting the hell out of me. Her parents were upset with her for about a week but then she moved out for "space" and "time to figure things out". She has been out of the house for a month with LC about kids only. I had a PI on her this weekend and he got her at OM's house both days. I have not exposed this yet because I am waiting to meet with my attorney on Friday. We may not have enough proof to get adultery in court. If that is the case I plan on filing suit against the schools district and will start serving people for depositions. If we think we can get more evidence for adultery, then I will sit tight and expose nothing yet until we get the needed proof for adultery.
> 
> I just don't want to wait much longer, we have already been separated a month, so soon it will be no big deal that they are together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just how much proof is needed to prove adultery in your state? 

A graphic video? :scratchhead:


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> I just don't want to wait much longer, we have already been separated a month, so soon it will be no big deal that they are together.


Which is why you call all her friends, her siblings, her pastor, her aunts and uncles, and tell them the truth. Today. The only way to get her back is to ruin her fantasy, so no one wants her boytoy around.


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

Be objective in your consideration of what courts do. Even if there is adultery in the family law code, do you believe many manage to prove it and change the outcome of their D proceedings?

Your chances of finding proof are very poor. The longer you wait the easier it becomes for your WW to deny that the relationship started prior to separation. Dawdle and your punch will have the force of fighter in the final round who is merely trying to stand till the end.

Read Chris's CheaterVille experience. BetrayedandBlindsided, Disenchanted deleted his thread but he had success. Those who had success and took down the CV post often experience failure.


----------



## EleGirl

3putt said:


> Just how much proof is needed to prove adultery in your state?
> 
> A graphic video? :scratchhead:


For New York:

"HOW TO PROVE ADULTERY 

There probably is no such thing as a pleasant adultery case; because names, dates, places, paramours, and the like have to be brought out in the open. If your spouse no longer cares about what you know and is open about the affair, you're lucky. You can then catch your spouse flagrante delicto, which means you have your spouse in the flagrant wrong and may not have to worry about hiring detectives. However, you may still need a detective to prove your case in court. There is still a need for a corroborative witness, such as a mutual friend or neighbor, who has no stake in the matter except telling the court what he (she) witnessed. 

Most adultery cases are proven by circumstantial evidence, which means that you have to establish that your spouse had the disposition and opportunity to commit adultery.

Public displays of affection, such as hand-holding, kissing, and hugging, between the guilty spouse and the paramour are generally sufficient evidence to indicate an adulterous disposition. Opportunity may be proven by showing that your spouse was seen entering the paramour's apartment at 11 P.M. and not coming out until 8 A.M. the following morning and that they were alone. If you can only prove disposition but not opportunity, the courts may not allow your divorce because the court may reason that it is just mere speculation. The same is true if you only show that there was opportunity, but cannot prove disposition. When you think about it, this seems to make sense. "

New York Divorce Requirements

More....

"
4. The commission of an act of adultery, provided that adultery for the purposes of articles 10, 11 and 11-A of this chapter, is hereby defined as the commission of an act of sexual or deviate sexual intercourse, voluntarily performed by the defendant, with a person other than the plaintiff after the marriage of plaintiff and defendant. Deviate sexual intercourse includes, but not limited to, sexual conduct as defined in subdivision 2 of Section 130.00 and subdivision 3 of Section 130.20 of the penal law.

Adultery has been a ground for divorce since legislative divorce was enacted in 1787. Until the Divorce Reform Law in 1966, effective in 1967, it was the sole ground for divorce.

Adultery can be proved by direct evidence or circumstantial evidence. Adultery cannot be proved by the confession of the party alone. Also, a spouse cannot prove adultery by his/her direct testimony, since Section 4502 of the Civil Practice Law and Rules provides that a spouse is incompetent to testify against the other spouse in a divorce founded upon adultery.

Section 171 of the Domestic Relations Law provides for 4 affirmative defenses to a divorce action based on adultery. An affirmative defense is one that must be pleaded. If proved, an affirmative defense results in the dismissal of the divorce action. The 4 affirmative defenses are:


1. Procurement or connivance. Procurement is the encouragement of adultery. Connivance is the consent to the adultery.
2. Forgiveness. A resumption of sexual relations after discovery of the adultery results in forgiveness (condonation).
3. Statute of limitations. A divorce action founded on adultery must be brought within 5 years of the discovery of the adultery.
4. Recrimination. This defense means that if the plaintiff is also guilty of adultery, he/she will not be granted a divorce."

http://www.divorcelawinfo.com/states/ny/nyintrod.htm


----------



## davecarter

GusPolinski said:


> Whoa there... Jump to conclusions much? Need one of these?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My wife is self-employed and is constantly talking to different people throughout the day every day. The nature of her work pretty much requires it, and I don't have a problem w/ it.
> 
> What I'm saying is that, if she were to begin talking somewhat _obsessively_ about a _specific_ person (whether male or female), I'd probably get the impression that the two of them were spending a good deal of time together. Naturally, I'd want to know more about that person.
> 
> Now, would I instantly run to CV? LOL, no. I probably wouldn't even start w/ Google. I'd likely start w/ FB, and then proceed from there.
> 
> So... precisely what, in your mind, does this odd habit of _actively listening_ to my wife say about me?


Glad we cleared that one up then.


----------



## dadof2

EleGirl said:


> For New York:
> 
> "HOW TO PROVE ADULTERY
> 
> There probably is no such thing as a pleasant adultery case; because names, dates, places, paramours, and the like have to be brought out in the open. If your spouse no longer cares about what you know and is open about the affair, you're lucky. You can then catch your spouse flagrante delicto, which means you have your spouse in the flagrant wrong and may not have to worry about hiring detectives. However, you may still need a detective to prove your case in court. There is still a need for a corroborative witness, such as a mutual friend or neighbor, who has no stake in the matter except telling the court what he (she) witnessed.
> 
> Most adultery cases are proven by circumstantial evidence, which means that you have to establish that your spouse had the disposition and opportunity to commit adultery.
> 
> Public displays of affection, such as hand-holding, kissing, and hugging, between the guilty spouse and the paramour are generally sufficient evidence to indicate an adulterous disposition. Opportunity may be proven by showing that your spouse was seen entering the paramour's apartment at 11 P.M. and not coming out until 8 A.M. the following morning and that they were alone. If you can only prove disposition but not opportunity, the courts may not allow your divorce because the court may reason that it is just mere speculation. The same is true if you only show that there was opportunity, but cannot prove disposition. When you think about it, this seems to make sense. "
> 
> New York Divorce Requirements
> 
> More....
> 
> "
> 4. The commission of an act of adultery, provided that adultery for the purposes of articles 10, 11 and 11-A of this chapter, is hereby defined as the commission of an act of sexual or deviate sexual intercourse, voluntarily performed by the defendant, with a person other than the plaintiff after the marriage of plaintiff and defendant. Deviate sexual intercourse includes, but not limited to, sexual conduct as defined in subdivision 2 of Section 130.00 and subdivision 3 of Section 130.20 of the penal law.
> 
> Adultery has been a ground for divorce since legislative divorce was enacted in 1787. Until the Divorce Reform Law in 1966, effective in 1967, it was the sole ground for divorce.
> 
> Adultery can be proved by direct evidence or circumstantial evidence. Adultery cannot be proved by the confession of the party alone. Also, a spouse cannot prove adultery by his/her direct testimony, since Section 4502 of the Civil Practice Law and Rules provides that a spouse is incompetent to testify against the other spouse in a divorce founded upon adultery.
> 
> Section 171 of the Domestic Relations Law provides for 4 affirmative defenses to a divorce action based on adultery. An affirmative defense is one that must be pleaded. If proved, an affirmative defense results in the dismissal of the divorce action. The 4 affirmative defenses are:
> 
> 
> 1. Procurement or connivance. Procurement is the encouragement of adultery. Connivance is the consent to the adultery.
> 2. Forgiveness. A resumption of sexual relations after discovery of the adultery results in forgiveness (condonation).
> 3. Statute of limitations. A divorce action founded on adultery must be brought within 5 years of the discovery of the adultery.
> 4. Recrimination. This defense means that if the plaintiff is also guilty of adultery, he/she will not be granted a divorce."
> 
> Basics of New York Divorce Law



I don't live in New York, but the information in EleGirl's post is similar to the laws in my state. It is very hard to prove adultery to get a divorce. I live in a no fault state, and the only benefit I would have to proving adultery would be that I would not have to pay interim spousal support over the next 12 months. It looks like that is slipping away.

What I do have is proof of a relationship, and that is where I am going to focus my time now. I am meeting with a civil attorney this week to discuss the possibility of filing suit against the school district for the inappropriate workplace affair. I agree I need to get moving on it because the further we get into the summer, the more likely they are to say the relationship did not happen during school time.


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> I don't live in New York, but the information in EleGirl's post is similar to the laws in my state. It is very hard to prove adultery to get a divorce. I live in a no fault state, and the only benefit I would have to proving adultery would be that I would not have to pay interim spousal support over the next 12 months. It looks like that is slipping away.
> 
> What I do have is proof of a relationship, and that is where I am going to focus my time now. I am meeting with a civil attorney this week to discuss the possibility of filing suit against the school district for the inappropriate workplace affair. I agree I need to get moving on it because the further we get into the summer, the more likely they are to say the relationship did not happen during school time.


Like I said, file a lawsuit against the school district and subpoena their emails. It's all in there.


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> I don't live in New York, but the information in EleGirl's post is similar to the laws in my state. It is very hard to prove adultery to get a divorce. I live in a no fault state, and the only benefit I would have to proving adultery would be that I would not have to pay interim spousal support over the next 12 months. It looks like that is slipping away.
> 
> What I do have is proof of a relationship, and that is where I am going to focus my time now. I am meeting with a civil attorney this week to discuss the possibility of filing suit against the school district for the inappropriate workplace affair. I agree I need to get moving on it because the further we get into the summer, the more likely they are to say the relationship did not happen during school time.


Why haven't you exposed yet?


----------



## barbados

dadof2 said:


> What I do have is proof of a relationship, and that is where I am going to focus my time now. * I am meeting with a civil attorney this week to discuss the possibility of filing suit against the school district for the inappropriate workplace affair.* I agree I need to get moving on it because the further we get into the summer, the more likely they are to say the relationship did not happen during school time.


:iagree: Do this ASAP !


----------



## LongWalk

You will regret your failure to expose. This has happened time and again on TAM.

You can post a simple expose on Cheaterville. Using the word affair is very neutral. It implies PA but could be a mere EA.

Never rely on lawyers to point of paralysis. They provide legal service, not life strategy for dealing with infidelity.


----------



## badmemory

LongWalk said:


> Your chances of finding proof are very poor. The longer you wait the easier it becomes for your WW to deny that the relationship started prior to separation. Dawdle and your punch will have the force of fighter in the final round who is merely trying to stand till the end.


:iagree:

If you are going to expose at all, and I think you should, now's the time.

I'm only speaking for myself, but if the only reason to expose her is to make her and the POSOM's life miserable, that would be enough for me.


----------



## richard_73

dadof2 said:


> My Original Thread is in the "Going through D or S" section, but I moved this post here on the advice of another poster. Having a rough go of it today:
> 
> Having a bad day today. Just keep thinking about what she's done/doing and it makes me so upset. I don't understand how she could walk away from our marriage so quickly and move on with her life like I never existed. I found out from a coworker that she is out with a few friends including OM right now having lunch and drinks at a restaurant here in town. I compare that with my situation, sitting in my office eating a sandwich, and I just feel worthless. How is it that she can be doing exactly what she wants and feel so good about it with no one to tell her any different, and I am left here with a broken marriage and our 2 small children are caught up in the middle.
> 
> I am trying to be strong and work in the 180, but as my counselor says, there are "landmines" out there that pop up from time to time. Today is one of those days. I am just so hurt by what she's done and she doesn't have to feel any of the repercussions of her actions. She gets the kids for a few days, then gets a few days off to go party with her new friends and posOM. Its just not fair. I am willing to do anything to make our marriage work, and she couldn't care less and no one is giving her any reasonable advice. We have been on LC about kids only - texting only - for a month now. We have not seen each other or spoken on the phone in that time. Its like she has wrapped me up in a little box and stored me away from her mind like I never existed!
> 
> And to top it off, she leaves Sunday with the kids and her parents for a week at the beach! It is just not fair. I don't even want her back at this point, I just hate the thought of another man screwing her and her enjoying it. I hate the fact that she doesn't feel any guilt or remorse for what she's doing. I hate the fact that no one is calling her out for her bull****. And I hate the fact that I cannot get this situation off my mind from more than a few minutes, while I may cross her mind maybe a few minutes a day.
> 
> Sorry to vent so much, but just having a bad day. Someone please give me some advice! I know I have to get out and be active, and I am working on it. I started exercising again and it makes me feel good, but only for an hour or so. I don't have much of a social life, I was happy to be a husband and father and didn't need to go out and party for a good time. I am in good shape, so its not like I need to lose 30 lbs, I have been taking care of myself and my house just fine without her around. It is just so hard to get out of bed in the morning and face another day of worrying and wondering why she can do what she's doing with a straight face and leave me broken on the floor.
> 
> Link to original thread w/ backstory:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...s-filed-divorce-after-2-weeks-separation.html


Really sorry to hear what your going through. I am right there right now in the same situation. Its just so rotten beyond words.

Really undermines your faith in humanity, especially women! 

I don't have an answer. Only to take each day at a time, even an hour at a time. 

It just seems so much like a dream and you can never know what the H is going through her mind.

Surround yourself with true friends and keep busy.

Use this forum as you have been, it can be v helpful.

Good luck with it

R


----------



## z_man

EleGirl said:


> For New York:
> 
> "HOW TO PROVE ADULTERY
> 
> There probably is no such thing as a pleasant adultery case; because names, dates, places, paramours, and the like have to be brought out in the open. If your spouse no longer cares about what you know and is open about the affair, you're lucky. You can then catch your spouse flagrante delicto, which means you have your spouse in the flagrant wrong and may not have to worry about hiring detectives. However, you may still need a detective to prove your case in court. There is still a need for a corroborative witness, such as a mutual friend or neighbor, who has no stake in the matter except telling the court what he (she) witnessed.
> 
> Most adultery cases are proven by circumstantial evidence, which means that you have to establish that your spouse had the disposition and opportunity to commit adultery.
> 
> Public displays of affection, such as hand-holding, kissing, and hugging, between the guilty spouse and the paramour are generally sufficient evidence to indicate an adulterous disposition. Opportunity may be proven by showing that your spouse was seen entering the paramour's apartment at 11 P.M. and not coming out until 8 A.M. the following morning and that they were alone. If you can only prove disposition but not opportunity, the courts may not allow your divorce because the court may reason that it is just mere speculation. The same is true if you only show that there was opportunity, but cannot prove disposition. When you think about it, this seems to make sense. "
> 
> New York Divorce Requirements
> 
> More....
> 
> "
> 4. The commission of an act of adultery, provided that adultery for the purposes of articles 10, 11 and 11-A of this chapter, is hereby defined as the commission of an act of sexual or deviate sexual intercourse, voluntarily performed by the defendant, with a person other than the plaintiff after the marriage of plaintiff and defendant. Deviate sexual intercourse includes, but not limited to, sexual conduct as defined in subdivision 2 of Section 130.00 and subdivision 3 of Section 130.20 of the penal law.
> 
> Adultery has been a ground for divorce since legislative divorce was enacted in 1787. Until the Divorce Reform Law in 1966, effective in 1967, it was the sole ground for divorce.
> 
> Adultery can be proved by direct evidence or circumstantial evidence. Adultery cannot be proved by the confession of the party alone. Also, a spouse cannot prove adultery by his/her direct testimony, since Section 4502 of the Civil Practice Law and Rules provides that a spouse is incompetent to testify against the other spouse in a divorce founded upon adultery.
> 
> Section 171 of the Domestic Relations Law provides for 4 affirmative defenses to a divorce action based on adultery. An affirmative defense is one that must be pleaded. If proved, an affirmative defense results in the dismissal of the divorce action. The 4 affirmative defenses are:
> 
> 
> 1. Procurement or connivance. Procurement is the encouragement of adultery. Connivance is the consent to the adultery.
> 2. Forgiveness. A resumption of sexual relations after discovery of the adultery results in forgiveness (condonation).
> 3. Statute of limitations. A divorce action founded on adultery must be brought within 5 years of the discovery of the adultery.
> 4. Recrimination. This defense means that if the plaintiff is also guilty of adultery, he/she will not be granted a divorce."
> 
> Basics of New York Divorce Law



I believe NYS recently went to a no fault divorce state rendering divorce from adultery moot.


----------



## z_man

z_man said:


> I believe NYS recently went to a no fault divorce state rendering divorce from adultery moot.


Correction, apparently you can still file for divorce on grounds of adultery in NYS. What that buys you, IDK.


----------



## thatbpguy

z_man said:


> I believe NYS recently went to a no fault divorce state rendering divorce from adultery moot.


Not a surprise. Judges don't want to hear about the dirt.


----------



## walkonmars

LongWalk said:


> ...Never rely on lawyers to point of paralysis. They provide legal service, not life strategy for dealing with infidelity.


Your lawyer is likely very good at citing case law, interpreting legal documents, and such matters. That’s her field. She is billing you for legal advice on how to get from point x to point y in the way she knows best. Any deviation from that path goes against what you’re paying for and against her training and experience. 

Her experience is family law right? Not not employment law right? My guess is that she doesn't have enough experience to give you a well-reasoned and legally insightful answer/discussion about other options without having to do a whole lot of research. 

So, you can bet that when you discuss additional paths you are considering she will likely discourage you from following through. 

The conundrum: Will she discourage you because of solid reasons based on her experience and knowledge or will she discourage you because it’s out of her bailiwick? 

You might ask her about her experience outside of family law before you have any discussions with her.


----------



## dadof2

walkonmars said:


> Your lawyer is likely very good at citing case law, interpreting legal documents, and such matters. That’s her field. She is billing you for legal advice on how to get from point x to point y in the way she knows best. Any deviation from that path goes against what you’re paying for and against her training and experience.
> 
> Her experience is family law right? Not not employment law right? My guess is that she doesn't have enough experience to give you a well-reasoned and legally insightful answer/discussion about other options without having to do a whole lot of research.
> 
> So, you can bet that when you discuss additional paths you are considering she will likely discourage you from following through.
> 
> The conundrum: Will she discourage you because of solid reasons based on her experience and knowledge or will she discourage you because it’s out of her bailiwick?
> 
> You might ask her about her experience outside of family law before you have any discussions with her.


I am scheduling a meeting with a corporate attorney this week. He is my business attorney and his firm covers all aspects of law. He is going to give me advice on going forward with a suit against the school district. He will hopefully either handle it himself or refer me to another attorney in his practice that handles civil suits.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> I am scheduling a meeting with a corporate attorney this week. He is my business attorney and his firm covers all aspects of law. He is going to give me advice on going forward with a suit against the school district. He will hopefully either handle it himself or refer me to another attorney in his practice that handles civil suits.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Excellent.


----------



## dadof2

tom67 said:


> Excellent.


My business attorney exchanged emails briefly, and without much explanation he said we may not have a cause of action because my state does not recognize alienation of affection as a tort. He said that STBX could have a sexual harassment suit against him pretty easily, but from my end there may not be much of an option.

We are still going to sit down and look at everything to see a course of action, but it just seems like every door I look into gets slammed in my face.


----------



## tom67

Time to put the pos on Cheaterville then and send emails to everyone on the school board.


----------



## Chaparral

First expose and go the cheaterville route. Save the attorneys and the hassle for now.

Simply exposing the POSOM t the school board will immediately get Posom's attn., he will call your wife and oops, her vacation isn't as happy as it was. The affair will be on thin ice most importantly.

There is plenty of time to get attorneys invoved. What you need to do NOW is crush the rainbows and unicorns inyour wife si mind and the forbidden ass in the asst principals mind. Make the affair costly for him mentally now. He needs to start sweating.

I guess you are also assuming he is still in town? I wonder.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> First expose and go the cheaterville route. Save the attorneys and the hassle for now.
> 
> Simply exposing the POSOM t the school board will immediately get Posom's attn., he will call your wife and oops, her vacation isn't as happy as it was. The affair will be on thin ice most importantly.
> 
> There is plenty of time to get attorneys invoved. What you need to do NOW is crush the rainbows and unicorns inyour wife si mind and the forbidden ass in the asst principals mind. Make the affair costly for him mentally now. He needs to start sweating.
> 
> I guess you are also assuming he is still in town? I wonder.


Even if he isn't in town he probably has a smart phone.


----------



## dadof2

Chaparral said:


> First expose and go the cheaterville route. Save the attorneys and the hassle for now.
> 
> Simply exposing the POSOM t the school board will immediately get Posom's attn., he will call your wife and oops, her vacation isn't as happy as it was. The affair will be on thin ice most importantly.
> 
> There is plenty of time to get attorneys invoved. What you need to do NOW is crush the rainbows and unicorns inyour wife si mind and the forbidden ass in the asst principals mind. Make the affair costly for him mentally now. He needs to start sweating.
> 
> I guess you are also assuming he is still in town? I wonder.


I am preparing an email to the principal of the school that I will send on Friday. I am still trying to plan the best way to fully expose to her parents. They won't believe it any way and will spin it as me being vindictive and play into their hand of thinking I'm a monster. But at this point is doesn't matter. I need some respect and I have taken the high road through this whole course of events. Time to get my hands dirty.

As of now OM is still in town. I am expecting STBX to come home a few days early and not tell anyone and spend a few days with him. I have a PI at the ready if she comes back in town.


----------



## bandit.45

Expose to everyone. Who cares what her parents think? As long as you have proof from the PI.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Who cares what they think? You don't expose to convince anyone. You expose to show YOUR WIFE that she can no longer PRETEND that she went into her affair honorably.

Period.

Once she knows that everyone else knows, you have a 50/50 chance of her dumping or being dumped.

Lawyers, PIs, all nonsense and a waste of money since you haven't even TOLD ANYONE yet. Jeez.

Just pick up the damn phone and start calling people.


----------



## 3putt

turnera said:


> Who cares what they think? You don't expose to convince anyone. You expose to show YOUR WIFE that she can no longer PRETEND that she went into her affair honorably.
> 
> Period.
> 
> Once she knows that everyone else knows, you have a 50/50 chance of her dumping or being dumped.
> 
> Lawyers, PIs, all nonsense and a waste of money since you haven't even TOLD ANYONE yet. Jeez.
> 
> Just pick up the damn phone and start calling people.


I would also go back and read that exposure link I gave you as well. It's step by step on how to do things most effectively.

Your call though.


----------



## dadof2

Here is my first draft of letter to principal. I will CC superintendent of schools as well as several school board members:


Dear (Principal XXX):

My name is (YYY), and I am the husband of (STBX) who teaches (ZZZ) at (HIGHSCHOOL). I am writing to make you aware of a situation that has been going on at your school since the first week of April 2014, and possibly before. (STBX) and the Assistant Principal (POSOM) have been involved in an affair that is being facilitated on school property. It began with afternoon workout sessions in the school gym. This evolved into a deeper relationship involving time spent together late after school, as well as meeting each other after work at several establishments around town. They are now in a full romantic relationship. This has resulted in a divorce filing for (STBX) and me. We are now separated and living apart and sharing custody of our children, (SON) (3) and (DAUGHTER) (2). I have evidence of the affair dating back to April 5, 2014 and continuing up until the present day.

I wanted to make you aware of this situation because it is entirely inappropriate for someone in an administrative position to become romantically involved with a teacher. It is also reprehensible that he would seduce a married woman with 2 small children. His use of school facilities to recruit women for him to develop relationships with under the guise of a workout routine shows a lack of control at your school. I do not know the extent of your knowledge of their relationship, but I expect you to handle this situation seriously.

I have lived in this community my entire life and my family has built a solid reputation in (TOWN) for over 100 years. I do not wish to see my good name run down because of the choices these two made, and have it facilitated by a work environment that condones this type of behavior. I have retained legal counsel and will search for any remedies possible to protect myself and my young children.

Sincerely,

dadof2


----------



## 3putt

dadof2 said:


> Here is my first draft of letter to principal. I will CC superintendent of schools as well as several school board members:
> 
> 
> Dear (Principal XXX):
> 
> My name is (YYY), and I am the husband of (STBX) who teaches (ZZZ) at (HIGHSCHOOL). I am writing to make you aware of a situation that has been going on at your school since the first week of April 2014, and possibly before. (STBX) and the Assistant Principal (POSOM) have been involved in an affair that is being facilitated on school property. It began with afternoon workout sessions in the school gym. This evolved into a deeper relationship involving time spent together late after school, as well as meeting each other after work at several establishments around town. They are now in a full romantic relationship. This has resulted in a divorce filing for (STBX) and me. We are now separated and living apart and sharing custody of our children, (SON) (3) and (DAUGHTER) (2). I have evidence of the affair dating back to April 5, 2014 and continuing up until the present day.
> 
> I wanted to make you aware of this situation because it is entirely inappropriate for someone in an administrative position to become romantically involved with a teacher. It is also reprehensible that he would seduce a married woman with 2 small children. His use of school facilities to recruit women for him to develop relationships with under the guise of a workout routine shows a lack of control at your school. I do not know the extent of your knowledge of their relationship, but I expect you to handle this situation seriously.
> 
> I have lived in this community my entire life and my family has built a solid reputation in (TOWN) for over 100 years. I do not wish to see my good name run down because of the choices these two made, and have it facilitated by a work environment that condones this type of behavior. I have retained legal counsel and will search for any remedies possible to protect myself and my young children.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> dadof2


I like it, but I would also send it to the other higher ups, and cc all copies sent so as to reduce the chances of rugsweeping the situation. They all see that everyone has received it and they will have no choice but to act on it.


----------



## dadof2

3putt said:


> I like it, but I would also send it to the other higher ups, and cc all copies sent so as to reduce the chances of rugsweeping the situation. They all see that everyone has received it and they will have no choice but to act on it.


Yes, my plan is to CC the superintendent, and several key members of his staff as well as 2 school board members that are family friends.


----------



## GusPolinski

3putt said:


> I like it, but I would also send it to the other higher ups, and cc all copies sent so as to reduce the chances of rugsweeping the situation. They all see that everyone has received it and they will have no choice but to act on it.


Hell, while you're at it, send copies to the local ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox affiliates...


----------



## EleGirl

z_man said:


> I believe NYS recently went to a no fault divorce state rendering divorce from adultery moot.


NY added no fault , it still has 6 other types of fault under which one can file. Adultery is one of those.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dadof2

I tell you what Gus, just writing that out and knowing it will soon be in the hands of all of the powers that be and STBX and OM have no clue, brings a huge smile to my face.

Makes me want to play a little polka....:lol:


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> I tell you what Gus, just writing that out and knowing it will soon be in the hands of all of the powers that be and STBX and OM have no clue, brings a huge smile to my face.
> 
> Makes me want to play a little polka....:lol:


Hey! Now you're talking!

Brats, dunkel, and polka!

And _ice_ *cold* *RETRIBUTION*. 

:FIREdevil:


----------



## badmemory

After you expose, it's very important to keep your specific evidence to yourself for the time being. As long as your wife and POSOM don't know what you know, that will give then the opportunity to deny the relationship to you and others. Then you can expose them as liars as well as a cheaters, when the time comes to show your cards.


----------



## GusPolinski

Another suggestion...

If, in any of your threads, you have revealed any sort of personal information (whether purely demographic or otherwise), consider having them moved to the Private Members' Section forum so that they (eventually) won't show up in any Google searches.

Also be sure to fastidiously log out of TAM and fully delete browser history on any computers or mobile devices from which you access it.


----------



## EleGirl

z_man said:


> I believe NYS recently went to a no fault divorce state rendering divorce from adultery moot.


NY added no fault , it still has 6 other types of fault under which one can file. Adultery is one of those.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Another suggestion...
> 
> If, in any of your threads, you have revealed any sort of personal information (whether purely demographic or otherwise), consider having them moved to the Private Members' Section forum so that they (eventually) won't show up in any Google searches.
> 
> Also be sure to fastidiously log out of TAM and fully delete browser history on any computers or mobile devices from which you access it.


:iagree:
Forum supporters can go straight to private...
And collect $200
Kidding
PM a moderator


----------



## SteveK

davecarter said:


> Spot-on, Chap.
> A lot of people will think men do this for their own ego, a kick or to get one over another man, but I posted this in another thread, about married-OMs who target other wives for sex, because they are in some way damaged or dysfunctional that they cannot have proper sexual relationships wither their own wives.
> Therefore, they target someone else wife to project and act out their own, less-than-vanilla sexual preferences because they can't do it with their own wife.
> That's sexual-dysfunction.
> 
> Single men, who go after married woman, that's slightly different. And really is about not being able to find a single woman of your own. Their m.o. is that married women are usually stuck in a domesticated situation and probably crave some excitment, so a bit of pushing, working and complimenting...usually, at least makes a married woman feel good or at worst, gets her to cheat / leave her marriage.
> 
> This is so true my WS POSOM, has always chased married woman from his tours. He claims if he feels something in his heart he goes for it and that these woman need to be rescued. He tells my WS that she needed to be rescued from me! So I pointed out and even her IC his flaws and his lack of respect for VOWs , she said we were all wrong he's different he just never found the right woman. Her Narcissistic brain makes her believe she deserves him and he her and that he will stop looking now, yes total,BS, they have these commitment rings and he calls her his Fiancé even though we are still married. He also was told by her that she never breaks VOWS of trust and he needs to trust her...wtf...
> 
> It's all so sick all,of it...
> 
> Just an idea...


----------



## happyman64

Dadof2

I like your plan with the school board. Nail them.

Any chance you can meet your inlaws and the kids at the beach for a day if your wife is messing around at home?

What a nice surprise it would be for all of them.

Keep it cordial and light.

Just a suggestion.....

HM


----------



## thatbpguy

I hope in the letter they are warned not to destroy any emails or other evidence.


----------



## bandit.45

Why wait until Friday? Why not tomorrow? Strike while the iron is hot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

​


bandit.45 said:


> Why wait until Friday? Why not tomorrow? Strike while the iron is hot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I'm wondering this too. It should be done asap. The reason the govt makes announcements on fri is it gets no network news airplay and softens their damage.


----------



## dadof2

Chaparral said:


> ​
> 
> 
> I'm wondering this too. It should be done asap. The reason the govt makes announcements on fri is it gets no network news airplay and softens their damage.


I was supposed to meet with my attorney Friday to go over what the PI found last weekend. We thinks we may need more to prove adultery in court. But we may decide that we aren't going to get adultery anyway and I will immediately expose. If we are going to try for more evidence, I will hold the email until we try to get more evidence. I am ready to pull the trigger now but don't want to send them underground if there is a chance to get a kill shot from PI next weekend.

My meeting with attorney got pushed to Monday morning, so I'm meeting with PI tomorrow to get them on standby in case she comes home early this weekend. If not I will go over letter with attorney then unleash the fury Monday afternoon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

dadof2 said:


> I was supposed to meet with my attorney Friday to go over what the PI found last weekend. We thinks we may need more to prove adultery in court. But we may decide that we aren't going to get adultery anyway and I will immediately expose. If we are going to try for more evidence, I will hold the email until we try to get more evidence. I am ready to pull the trigger now but don't want to send them underground if there is a chance to get a kill shot from PI next weekend.
> 
> My meeting with attorney got pushed to Monday morning, so I'm meeting with PI tomorrow to get them on standby in case she comes home early this weekend. If not I will go over letter with attorney then unleash the fury Monday afternoon.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A man with a plan........gotta a love it:smthumbup:


----------



## bandit.45

Map it out, and play it through.....


----------



## lordmayhem

I remember a member with a good plan, then when it came time to confrontation, he disappeard. Then reappears briefly to say he was in R and copying the OM's sexual moves in bed.


----------



## tom67

lordmayhem said:


> I remember a member with a good plan, then when it came time to confrontation, he disappeard. Then reappears briefly to say he was in R and copying the OM's sexual moves in bed.



Strange RDMU right?


----------



## honcho

If your going to go this route then the letter needs to go to whom ever can make actual real decisions, not the supporting staff and each and every school board member. 

If you chose to do this with just a select few they will do damage control more than anything and being a government entity that exactly what they will do, minimize the damage, try to handle it quietly. Trying to keep an entire school board quiet is near impossible. If your gonna do something it don’t pay to do it halfway.


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> I don't live in New York, but the information in EleGirl's post is similar to the laws in my state. It is very hard to prove adultery to get a divorce. I live in a no fault state, and the only benefit I would have to proving adultery would be that I would not have to pay interim spousal support over the next 12 months. It looks like that is slipping away.
> 
> What I do have is proof of a relationship, and that is where I am going to focus my time now. I am meeting with a civil attorney this week to discuss the possibility of filing suit against the school district for the inappropriate workplace affair. I agree I need to get moving on it because the further we get into the summer, the more likely they are to say the relationship did not happen during school time.


Darn, I thought I read a post mentioning NY.. must be getting my threads mixed up.. Go figure.


----------



## Chaparral

dadof2 said:


> I was supposed to meet with my attorney Friday to go over what the PI found last weekend. We thinks we may need more to prove adultery in court. But we may decide that we aren't going to get adultery anyway and I will immediately expose. If we are going to try for more evidence, I will hold the email until we try to get more evidence. I am ready to pull the trigger now but don't want to send them underground if there is a chance to get a kill shot from PI next weekend.
> 
> My meeting with attorney got pushed to Monday morning, so I'm meeting with PI tomorrow to get them on standby in case she comes home early this weekend. If not I will go over letter with attorney then unleash the fury Monday afternoon.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't see how you could get any more info or why you would need it. They have been spending much time together, they admit to kissing, they spend hours alone at his house. What else can the PI find. She may not spend the night there to keep her parents in the dark.

By hesitating you are wasting the advantage you have.

One more time, what else could a pi get?


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> I don't see how you could get any more info or why you would need it. They have been spending much time together, they admit to kissing, they spend hours alone at his house. What else can the PI find. She may not spend the night there to keep her parents in the dark.
> 
> By hesitating you are wasting the advantage you have.
> 
> One more time, what else could a pi get?


:scratchhead::scratchhead:Just do it.


----------



## dadof2

Chaparral said:


> I don't see how you could get any more info or why you would need it. They have been spending much time together, they admit to kissing, they spend hours alone at his house. What else can the PI find. She may not spend the night there to keep her parents in the dark.
> 
> By hesitating you are wasting the advantage you have.
> 
> One more time, what else could a pi get?


I understand what you or saying, but legally we are still trying to get adultery. We don't have sufficient evidence yet to prove it in court. If I expose now they will go underground and ruin any chance for a PI to get a "kill shot" this weekend. I am meeting with the PI today and my attorney Monday morning. If we don't get anything over the weekend I think we are going to stop pursuing the legal adultery and then move to exposure mode to start inflicting some collateral damage.

I don't have much to gain to even prove adultery other than I would get an immediate divorce which would end any chance of interim spousal support for her. But the legal fees may be just as much as paying spousal support.

I am ready to expose today, but I am heeding my lawyer's advice to wait and see what this weekend brings. It is very hard for me to be patient, but it is Wednesday today and they are off of school for the summer. If I wait until Monday I don't see much difference than if I were to expose today.


----------



## doubletrouble

Tactically, I would think Monday would be a more hard-hitting day to expose than today. And if you have evidence, you may want to edit the letter to say you have proof. 

Timing is everything.


----------



## GusPolinski

OP, can you envision a scenario in which you'd be willing to reconcile w/ your wife?

Just to clarify, I'm simply asking a question -- I don't mean to imply that you should at least be open to it.


----------



## thatbpguy

EleGirl said:


> Darn, I thought I read a post mentioning NY.. must be getting my threads mixed up.. Go figure.


old age


----------



## GusPolinski

thatbpguy said:


> old age


Daaaaaaaaaamn...


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> OP, can you envision a scenario in which you'd be willing to reconcile w/ your wife?
> 
> Just to clarify, I'm simply asking a question -- I don't mean to imply that you should at least be open to it.


Gus, at this point no I cannot see reconciliation in our future. The lies and deception that I have come to realize over the past few months on top of a PA with her coworker is too much for me to overcome. If a reconciliation were ever to happen I believe it would be years down the road and she would have to make a lot of changes to her lifestyle. I would only consider it if our children develop behavioral issues due to the divorce and begin to struggle in school. 

Are you asking because if I exposed to her employer then it will ruin any chance for reconciliation down the road?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Gus, at this point no I cannot see reconciliation in our future. The lies and deception that I have come to realize over the past few months on top of a PA with her coworker is too much for me to overcome. If a reconciliation were ever to happen I believe it would be years down the road and she would have to make a lot of changes to her lifestyle. I would only consider it if our children develop behavioral issues due to the divorce and begin to struggle in school.
> 
> *Are you asking because if I exposed to her employer then it will ruin any chance for reconciliation down the road?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, not at all. I was only curious.

Let's say, for example, that she were to come crawling back to you, fully confessing her transgressions, offering a complete timeline, showing full remorse, crying and begging at your feet, offering to sign a post-nup (or, divorce and then re-marry with a secure pre-nup in place), to take a poly, to get a new job, etc. ... How would you feel?

For the record, I'm all for exposure in this case, especially since it doesn't seem at all likely that your WW will turn things around as described above. If nothing else, exposure may be of some help to other men whose wives interact w/ this scumbag.


----------



## z_man

dadof2 said:


> I don't have much to gain to even prove adultery other than I would get an immediate divorce which would end any chance of interim spousal support for her. But the legal fees may be just as much as paying spousal support.


Just depends on who's pocket you want your money to go in.


----------



## tom67

z_man said:


> Just depends on who's pocket you want your money to go in.


Ain't that the truth.


----------



## GusPolinski

z_man said:


> Just depends on who's pocket you want your money to go in.


I'm by no means a fan of (most) lawyers, but I'd have to heartily agree w/ this sentiment.


----------



## Squeakr

I would rather a lawyer (any of them) live well off me for a few months, than to pad her lifestyle any further, as we all know the money would be used to fund her fun and not be spent on the children (if it were going to them it would be a different story).


----------



## EleGirl

thatbpguy said:


> old age


meanie


----------



## tom67

Squeakr said:


> I would rather a lawyer (any of them) live well off me for a few months, than to pad her lifestyle any further, as we all know the money would be used to fund her fun and not be spent on the children (if it were going to them it would be a different story).


Another one driven down the middle of the fairway.:iagree:


----------



## dadof2

Squeakr said:


> I would rather a lawyer (any of them) live well off me for a few months, than to pad her lifestyle any further, as we all know the money would be used to fund her fun and not be spent on the children (if it were going to them it would be a different story).


I agree, that is where I am at right now. Met with PI this morning and boy does she have some ideas! She specializes in domestic cases whereas most PI's focus on insurance fraud, etc. She feels if we can get one more night of them together we have enough for leverage. She suggested we hold off on exposure to principal and next week I call her using a recorder and tell her what we've got on her. She said to tell her that I am willing to take it as far as she wants to prove adultery. Leave the ball in her court so she cannot claim extortion. She said that my 2 biggest wants right now should be no spousal support at any time, and that I get domiciliary rights to children. If she does not comply, go forward with exposure to school and begin adultery trial.

I was very upset that she wants to wait on exposure to school, but she said I can ask my lawyer about it Monday. She said she is hesitant to do it because it will make me look vindictive and with her claims of abuse in the petition, if STBX loses her job because of my claims then it will make me look like the monster she has created me to be. I don't fully agree with that stance, I feel like she created this situation, so how does me making it public knowledge make me a bad guy?

PI also suggested that if I want to scare them, rather than expose to school right away that she would get a burner phone and call OM and tell him that she lives in our small town and saw me meeting with a at the coffee shop discussing our case. PI said that OM will immediately call STBX and then she will call me. That is when I have the recorder on and follow a scripted conversation in order to keep me safe and get her to admit to the affair over the phone.

It seems like a lot of scheming, but it is very interesting! I am all for just exposing on Monday and let the chips fall, but PI said it could be very costly to me in the long run if it causes STBX to lose her job. The judge in our case has a long history of being pro female/mother.

So it is a classic case of "hurry up and wait" much like Honcho said it would be a few days ago. And we haven't even got a temp hearing date yet!


----------



## turnera

I like your PI.


----------



## tom67

turnera said:


> I like your PI.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## GusPolinski

turnera said:


> I like your PI.


Ditto. Whatever you do, take your time and do it right.


----------



## lordmayhem

Wow. A PI that's actually working for a BSs best interests. Very rare. Most don't care about anything except getting paid. Many do a sh!tty job too.


----------



## doubletrouble

Your PI has obviously done this before.


----------



## dadof2

Guys,

I am with you all the way on the PI. This is actually the second one I have used because the first was very sloppy. I called this PI first but she was unavailable last weekend. She is very cold and calculating! She does not like cheating women and will work the system the best way possible for a father. I think I made a wise decision to cut the first PI loose.

I have a meeting with a new lawyer on Monday. I informed the first lawyer that I no longer need her services as well. She was content to answer STBX petition with standard responses rather than push for adultery in my initial response. After meeting with the new PI and talking to a new lawyer who comes recommended as a shark, I am feeling pretty good. I am disappointed in the delay of exposure, but it seems like the other options may work better in my favor. Exposure would be nice, but if I can get STBX to drop her claim for spousal support without setting foot in the courtroom, that will be a huge win for me.

I have learned a lot here, and the biggest lesson right now is don't feel tied to a lawyer or PI just because you have laid down a fat retainer. I cut them both loose today and found new ones. I looked through my paperwork and my first lawyer was retained last Tuesday, so she had my case for all of 8 days and would not return 2 of my phone calls. I am so grateful to find a PI that genuinely has my best interest in mind, and I hope the new lawyer will as well. PI and I met in a coffee shop for 2 hours and she already had printed out pages from each person's FB page, as well as a background report on POSOM and she is waiting on her secretary to print the records from his divorce last year. She had all this prepared just for our initial consultation!!

Now the plan is to sit and wait until STBX returns from the beach. I expect her to come home earlier than planned to see OM. Whenever she arrives home I am going to volunteer to take kids for a few nights because I really miss them but also to free her up to see POSOM. New PI is on standby for this weekend whenever she gets back in town.


----------



## mahike

Keep the focus and keep calm. I hope you can put this to rest soon. It sounds like your wife maybe on to the PI and she has been playing it safe.

Good Luck my friend


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



dadof2 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I am with you all the way on the PI. This is actually the second one I have used because the first was very sloppy. I called this PI first but she was unavailable last weekend. She is very cold and calculating! She does not like cheating women and will work the system the best way possible for a father. I think I made a wise decision to cut the first PI loose.
> 
> I have a meeting with a new lawyer on Monday. I informed the first lawyer that I no longer need her services as well. She was content to answer STBX petition with standard responses rather than push for adultery in my initial response. After meeting with the new PI and talking to a new lawyer who comes recommended as a shark, I am feeling pretty good. I am disappointed in the delay of exposure, but it seems like the other options may work better in my favor. Exposure would be nice, but if I can get STBX to drop her claim for spousal support without setting foot in the courtroom, that will be a huge win for me.
> 
> I have learned a lot here, and the biggest lesson right now is don't feel tied to a lawyer or PI just because you have laid down a fat retainer. I cut them both loose today and found new ones. I looked through my paperwork and my first lawyer was retained last Tuesday, so she had my case for all of 8 days and would not return 2 of my phone calls. I am so grateful to find a PI that genuinely has my best interest in mind, and I hope the new lawyer will as well. PI and I met in a coffee shop for 2 hours and she already had printed out pages from each person's FB page, as well as a background report on POSOM and she is waiting on her secretary to print the records from his divorce last year. She had all this prepared just for our initial consultation!!
> 
> Now the plan is to sit and wait until STBX returns from the beach. I expect her to come home earlier than planned to see OM. Whenever she arrives home I am going to volunteer to take kids for a few nights because I really miss them but also to free her up to see POSOM. New PI is on standby for this weekend whenever she gets back in town.


You now sound like a man with a plan. Excellent!


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> I am with you all the way on the PI. This is actually the second one I have used because the first was very sloppy. I called this PI first but she was unavailable last weekend. *She is very cold and calculating! She does not like cheating women and will work the system the best way possible for a father.* I think I made a wise decision to cut the first PI loose.


She got a sister?!?

LOL, J/K.


----------



## doubletrouble

You are set. I, for one, await news on Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## doubletrouble

GUS! :nono:


----------



## GusPolinski

OK... Sending the trog back to his cage...


----------



## Tall Average Guy

dadof2 said:


> So it is a classic case of "hurry up and wait" much like Honcho said it would be a few days ago. And we haven't even got a temp hearing date yet!


So what is your plan after all this happens early next week?

I ask because your focus on her and the OM seems like a distraction from your dealing with the loss of your marriage. When all that stuff happens, you will still be left with that. So don't forget to focus on yourself and moving forward. Exercise, get some hobbies and enjoy your life. 

Just because you may get some measure of revenge via exposure does not mean you should not work on the ultimate revenge - that of a happy life well lived without her.


----------



## happyman64

I really, really like your PI!


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> She got a sister?!?
> 
> LOL, J/K.


I like the way you think Gus! She is very sharp and feisty. She is a professional and takes her job very seriously and during our talk I got the feeling that she really cares about her clients cases. She only has 3 investigators in her shop and she doesn't sub out work because she likes to keep a handle on things so the quality doesn't suffer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dadof2

Tall Average Guy said:


> So what is your plan after all this happens early next week?
> 
> I ask because your focus on her and the OM seems like a distraction from your dealing with the loss of your marriage. When all that stuff happens, you will still be left with that. So don't forget to focus on yourself and moving forward. Exercise, get some hobbies and enjoy your life.
> 
> Just because you may get some measure of revenge via exposure does not mean you should not work on the ultimate revenge - that of a happy life well lived without her.


I agree. I have spent a lot of time the last few days thinking about what measures I can take in order to sway some of the momentum to my side. I also realize I need to continue the work I have started on myself. I still have a lot of grief to go through and this has provided me a nice respite from obsessing about the loss of my marriage. I am trying not to lose focus on my recovery.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

I feel better knowing you have been decisive with your first pi and attorney. From what you wrote,I felt your attorney was more into just negotiating a settlement instead of fighting for you. She seemed to be preparing you for the typical husband slaughter.


----------



## honcho

Have you started to think about her counter moves against you once you unleash “the plan”? Most of the school/work stuff would affect him much more than her. She will view this as a direct attack at “her man” as cheesy as that sounds. 

I got to believe she will either try playing hardball fast and furious with the custody or go the restraining order route with wild claims that you have been driven off the deep end. The court systems hand those out like candy and she doesn’t need any real proof the day she would file for one. Not saying that is what she will do but she knows what will push your buttons and your good name is obviously important to you. 

You know the judge in your case is pro mom. Unless you have an actual video of the two of them doing the deed or actual conversations between the two of them recording graphically describing events court wise/divorce it’s an uphill battle. That is what the lawyer is going to tell you. The trick is seeing how far you can run a bluff and how much she will cave in to save embarrassment. 

I thought you said somewhere your family had been involved in the local politics and had some influence in your community. Have you looked into connections to the judge where you may be able to have the judge recues himself because of a conflict of interest? I did this with the first judge assigned to my mess.


----------



## turnera

Make sure you always have a VAR in your pocket; it's running any time your wife is near you.

What if this crushes her fantasy and she asks you to take her back?


----------



## dadof2

honcho said:


> Have you started to think about her counter moves against you once you unleash “the plan”? Most of the school/work stuff would affect him much more than her. She will view this as a direct attack at “her man” as cheesy as that sounds.
> 
> I got to believe she will either try playing hardball fast and furious with the custody or go the restraining order route with wild claims that you have been driven off the deep end. The court systems hand those out like candy and she doesn’t need any real proof the day she would file for one. Not saying that is what she will do but she knows what will push your buttons and your good name is obviously important to you.
> 
> You know the judge in your case is pro mom. Unless you have an actual video of the two of them doing the deed or actual conversations between the two of them recording graphically describing events court wise/divorce it’s an uphill battle. That is what the lawyer is going to tell you. The trick is seeing how far you can run a bluff and how much she will cave in to save embarrassment.
> 
> I thought you said somewhere your family had been involved in the local politics and had some influence in your community. Have you looked into connections to the judge where you may be able to have the judge recues himself because of a conflict of interest? I did this with the first judge assigned to my mess.


I have been thinking about what her counter moves will be most of the morning. She is giving me the best custody offer I can get, so I am very nervous about losing that. I hope to discuss my options with my attorney on Monday, as well as try to guess her next move so we can be prepared to counter to that as well.

I feel like this week I am on the revenge path, and I am trying to caution myself. It is fun to plot out things with the PI and to imagine STBX's fear when she knows she is caught. But you are right, short of catching them in the act I may not have much of a legal case.

Right now I think we are collecting evidence for leverage. The PI said to hold all these cards very close and meet with the attorney to see the best way to play our hand. I am ready to go nuclear, but the cold, calculated approach may play out better in the end. Like you said earlier, if I am searching for vindication in this process I will probably be disappointed. I am trying to temper my enthusiasm for the kill shot with the reality of the fact that this may not change a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. But man I really want to make them squirm...

I haven't thought about the judge recusing herself. My mom and she worked together for a few years at a local elementary school, but I don't know how well they know each other. It may be beneficial to look into this.


----------



## turnera

Cold, calculated is ALWAYS the best approach, unless you are considering taking her back. If so, exposure is the best approach before you do any legal stuff.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

I like your plan and your caution.

You're getting your waterfowl coaxial, and that's always the best approach.

-ol' 2long


----------



## happyman64

It is not being vindictive.

It is punching her in the "teeth" metaphorically to remind her that you two are still married, that you are still being hurt by her actions/decisions and you will no longer tolerate her behavior.

Once she is divorced she can do whatever she wants to.

And if you play your cards right with your team you will have enough evidence to make her wary of you.

She will learn to respect you again if you stick to your plan.


----------



## Squeakr

happyman64 said:


> She will learn to respect you again if you stick to your plan.


He is moving on and getting a D, so why should he really care at this point that she respect him in any way, shape, or form in the future?? It is a dead horse.


----------



## happyman64

Squeakr said:


> He is moving on and getting a D, so why should he really care at this point that she respect him in any way, shape, or form in the future?? It is a dead horse.


Squeakr

Do you really think a divorce with kids involved means he will not have any contact with her?

Divorce with kids just means the family dynamic has changed.

They will still need to coparent. Still raise those kids with values.

If they are ever to coparent effectively, so those kids turn out ok they will need to respect each other. Their kids will need to see it, feel it. 

The kids will also come to realize one day what happened. It is inevitable. And they will look at their Mom and Dad to see how they interact with each other. They will make their own judgements. So a little respect between parents can go a long way for the kids opinions.

And that is why he needs to do what he needs to do.....


----------



## Squeakr

Yes he needs to do what he needs to do, but this doesn't include any need to earn, nor care about regaining HER respect. 

You are right in that they will have to co-parent, but he doesn't have to interact with her other than exchanges. The kids will see what she has done for what it is in the future and in doing so realize he is getting a raw deal and not hold it against him. He shouldn't have to worry about his relationship with her nor her view of him in order to be a good parent to his children. Contact between the two parents doesn't have to include anything more than civility.

Their relationship is dead and buried and the kids will realize this in time and accept it for that. They will learn to not expect either parent to behave in the same way towards the other parent as he other parents in married households do.

Effective co-parenting doesn't include respect and honor towards the other and if these elements are missing or there is not a predictor of how the kids will turn out in the future. Love, honor, and respect from each individual parent shown to the child(ten) is what helps to raise healthy and well adjusted child(ten).


----------



## happyman64

IMO Squeakr you have a lot to learn about relationships post affair, post divorce where families are concerned.

Coparenting will last until the kids are between 18 & 21 depending upon education.

The two coparents have serious decisions to make about their childrens welfare, health and education among many other things.

If she does not respect him and he does not respect her the decisions only get harder to make.

And rarely will those decisions be reached easily or quickly.

I will now stop the threadjack.


----------



## Squeakr

happyman64 said:


> IMO Squeakr you have a lot to learn about relationships post affair, post divorce where families are concerned.
> 
> Coparenting will last until the kids are between 18 & 21 depending upon education.
> 
> The two coparents have serious decisions to make about their childrens welfare, health and education among many other things.
> 
> If she does not respect him and he does not respect her the decisions only get harder to make.
> 
> And rarely will those decisions be reached easily or quickly.
> 
> I will now stop the threadjack.


I agree that the decisions become harder to make unless they focus solely on that task at hand and deal with it. People that don't get along can still be civil and come to fair and just decisions (especially when it comes to their children). Their respect of each other has nothing to do with this as long as each acts in a civil manner when in these discussions and that respect also doesn't guarantee that things will be easier, smoother, or quicker in resolving.

Sorry that my experience and reasoning doesn't measure up to and meet your standards, but this is my first, and hopefully only, time at this rodeo. I would rather not have to gain much life experience by going through this time and again. Parenting, marriage, and other major life issues have no manual in existence that details how and what to do in different situations and locales, as each area of the world has a different morality and ideology of how to deal with these issues. The one globally accepted truth is to make things age appropriate. I also would question those that have such good experience and knowledge of these situations, as why do you have such a wealth of knowledge and experience? That says to me that you have other issues at play to have put you into this situation so many times, and I would questions the legitimacy of their offerings. Sure there are counselors that study this, but having never lived it, they don't truly know the dynamics. For example a man can right a book on childbirth and appropriate mothering skills and emotions, but without having experienced it himself he is just relying on others reporting and who is to say the other sources are reputable or good examples of the group??


----------



## happyman64

> "Sorry that my experience and reasoning doesn't measure up to and meet your standards"


This tells me so much about you Squeakr.

I wish Conrad was around.

I do not want to threadjack this thread.

But you asked about my experience?

All I will say is my greatest gift is that I listen. 

I hear what people are saying. And I also hear what they are not saying.

My friends nicknamed me the priest. Everyone eventually comes to me and confesses or asks for my help to solve to resolve their differences.

And No! I do not make house calls. 

Have a great day Squeakr.

HM


----------



## dadof2

happyman64 said:


> This tells me so much about you Squeakr.
> 
> I wish Conrad was around.
> 
> I do not want to threadjack this thread.
> 
> But you asked about my experience?
> 
> All I will say is my greatest gift is that I listen.
> 
> I hear what people are saying. And I also hear what they are not saying.
> 
> My friends nicknamed me the priest. Everyone eventually comes to me and confesses or asks for my help to solve to resolve their differences.
> 
> And No! I do not make house calls.
> 
> Have a great day Squeakr.
> 
> HM


Don't feel bad about the threadjack. I don't mind hearing advice from all angles.

An Update: As I suspected, STBX has left the beach early and is on the way home now. She was supposed to stay until Sunday. I don't know if she has the kids with her or not. Obviously if she has them then I will offer to get them for the weekend to free her up to see OM. She has not contacted me to let me know she is heading home, but I was able to figure it out on my own :nono:

I let the PI know she is on the way home and they are on standby. If STBX was planning to be home for a few days with the kids, then if I offer to take them I don't want her to start thinking something is up. She has been away for a week with no activity but I hope she isn't starting to think she has picked up a tail.


----------



## happyman64

dadof2 said:


> *but I hope she isn't starting to think she has picked up a tail.*


You are giving her way too much credit. She is in lust.

She is not thinking of you or a tail.

Keep moving forward with your plan.


----------



## Squeakr

Glad that you can read things that are not there. 

Not sure whom Conrad is, but seeing some other posts, I am thinking it is referencing some sort of 2X4, so nice jib added in there.

You stated that I have lots to learn, so I just stated that I am sorry I don't measure up to your standards.

I never asked about your particular experience, just made a generalized comment about experience and the ways to gain it and my beliefs accordingly based on that fact. The you part was the collective you and not aimed at hm64 specifically, but the collective you referring to the entire body of the knowledge.

Never asked for a house call or your help either, so once again nice jib. 

Glad that you are so good at hearing what is not said (which you yourself claim and not my assessment), because you missed it completely in this case.

You too have a good day.


----------



## happyman64

Keep going Squeakr. I am listening.

And in all seriousness. No jabs are intended.

I was trying to lighten the mood.

I will be reading your threads this weekend.

They all looked deep, thoughtful and interesting.

HM


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> Keep going Squeakr. I am listening.
> 
> And in all seriousness. No jabs are intended.
> 
> I was trying to lighten the mood.
> 
> I will be reading your threads this weekend.
> 
> They all looked deep, thoughtful and interesting.
> 
> HM


Well since you are the priest...
Father forgive me for I have sinned.
Can't remember the last time I went to confession.
Seriously a perfect example of a co parent not getting along and doing whatever she wants is here

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/155905-20-years-smoke.html


----------



## Squeakr

tom67 said:


> Well since you are the priest...
> Father forgive me for I have sinned.
> Can't remember the last time I went to confession.
> Seriously a perfect example of a co parent not getting along and doing whatever she wants is here
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/155905-20-years-smoke.html


I never said anything about not being civil nor getting along, all I mentioned was that he doesn't need to earn or have her respect. I never questioned someone else's way to parent and in fat was not referring to parenting in this situation at all. People can co-exist and make good decisions regarding situations and child rearing even if they have little to no respect for each other. It is not an all or nothing thing. It will take more effort to accomplish the end result, but it is not impossible to happen as some seem to think. As long as the parents don't bad mouth the other in front of the children, their cold interactions are to be expected in divorce situations where one has gone off the deep end.


----------



## LongWalk

Too bad Conrad is gone.

He was incisive.


----------



## Racer

dadof2 said:


> An Update: As I suspected, STBX has left the beach early and is on the way home now. She was supposed to stay until Sunday..


So sorry man. I know how badly it sucks when you hope, beyond reason, that they'll behave like they should. Then, just as you predict because they aren't 'good people', they do exactly what you thought and hoped they wouldn't.

I hope your PI nails her this weekend and you can close that chapter in your life....


----------



## just got it 55

Squeakr said:


> I never said anything about not being civil nor getting along, all I mentioned was that he doesn't need to earn or have her respect. I never questioned someone else's way to parent and in fat was not referring to parenting in this situation at all. People can co-exist and make good decisions regarding situations and child rearing even if they have little to no respect for each other. It is not an all or nothing thing. It will take more effort to accomplish the end result, but it is not impossible to happen as some seem to think. As long as the parents don't bad mouth the other in front of the children, their cold interactions are to be expected in divorce situations where one has gone off the deep end.


Sorry Squeakr I have to disagree 

In order to make a fair decision you must respect the wishes and opinion of the other party most particularly those of a co parent.

This can be difficult under the best of circumstances with a married couple in a great relationship. They also can have a very different opinion on any given subject regarding their children.

Compound that with battling emotions and both sides it’s hard to walk a mile in their shoes or gain perspective of the other POV

So IMO respect must be maintained, established or reestablished if lost at some point. It’s the foundation of civility.

Just my $.02

55


----------



## tom67

Racer said:


> So sorry man. I know how badly it sucks when you hope, beyond reason, that they'll behave like they should. Then, just as you predict because they aren't 'good people', they do exactly what you thought and hoped they wouldn't.
> 
> I hope your PI nails her this weekend and you can close that chapter in your life....


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> Too bad Conrad is gone.
> 
> He was incisive.


Who?


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Who?


You stepped in what?
TGIF!


----------



## Lila

Dadof2 - After reading much of the posts on this thread and the one you started over on Divorce and Separation, I can tell that the devastation from your STBX decision to divorce has caused you untold misery. However, in the interest of your future happiness with your two small children, you need to stop wallowing in this cesspool of bitterness and anger you have towards your STBX. Whether she betrayed you or not is moot. According to your own posts, in your <5 year marriage, you had huge fights (plural) where there was yelling, things were said, and "things were thrown". She chose divorce and that's all there is to it.

PLEASE consider your children before pursuing these highly publicized and contentious suits against the school district and the OM. There is no benefit to doing this except to soothe your ego because she chose to exit the marriage. Should she have worked harder on trying to save it? ABSOLUTELY! But based on everything I've read, unless you have some concrete proof of her "alleged" adulterous affair collected prior to the legal separation/filing for divorce, you will come out looking like a crazy, possessive, and obsessed husband. (even if she admitted kissing him, we live in a world where that barely gets a sigh) 

You have several points in this divorce that are in your favor:


You live in a No Fault state so the divorce can be clean and simple. You have said time and time again that you don't want to reconcile with her. No fuss no muss, and more importantly, you can MOVE ON with your life.
You've mentioned that you most likely won't be responsible for spousal support following the divorce. She's gainfully employed (for now) and aside from child support, you won't need to drop another dime on her.
She's given you 50/50 custody of your children. You'll be able to spend quality time with your children raising them to be good, morally right people.


What do you hope to accomplish by telling her employer that she had an affair? 

You want to see her fired? Well then, you'll be out spousal support until she can find another job of equal pay. Worse yet, she may have to move miles away from your town to find a county that will employ her, making accessibility to your kids that much more of a P.I.T.A.. 
 You want to hear all of the torrid/disgusting details of an affair with the coach....assuming she even cops out to it? 
 Will tattooing a scarlett letter A to her forehead be enough?

I read your posts and see a person who is letting the bitterness and hatred associated with revenge get the better of him. You are focusing WAY too much time and effort into THEM. Instead, you need to start focusing on YOU. Establishing your long-term happiness again should be priority #1, not on hiring and firing divorce lawyers and PIs. Make positive choices that will bring back the guy you were before all of this happened.


----------



## dadof2

Racer said:


> So sorry man. I know how badly it sucks when you hope, beyond reason, that they'll behave like they should. Then, just as you predict because they aren't 'good people', they do exactly what you thought and hoped they wouldn't.
> 
> I hope your PI nails her this weekend and you can close that chapter in your life....


Yes its such a letdown, but also shows me more and more about who she really is. There are a few sticky things I am left to deal with now: 
1) I have confirmed that she is home at her apt with both of our kids. I was hoping she would be alone that way she would be free to see OM. We don't have a regular babysitter so I doubt she goes that route. It makes me wonder why she came home if she knew she would have kids all weekend. Maybe OM is out of town?

2) She doesn't know that I know she is home. I need to get in touch with her and volunteer to keep the kids so she can feel free to go out and see OM, and I have PI at the ready to document everything.

3) It really bothers me that she didn't follow her original plans. She has our kids and I am left to think they are at the beach. I want to let her know that I wish she would let me know when plans change. She will take this as me keeping tabs on her, but when she has the kids I need to know where they are. (Did I mention she was irrational??) 

While they were at the beach, I set up a time Wednesday night to FaceTime with the kids. Everything went through STBX's mom, she was in the other room and never came on screen. My PI said I should text STBX's mom this afternoon to set up a FaceTime tonight. Then she will have to spill the beans and it gives me cover to contact STBX and ask if I can keep the kids this weekend.

I just don't want to tip her off with too many hoops to jump through. How about some advice from the peanut gallery?


----------



## tom67

It really bothers me that she didn't follow her original plans. She has our kids and I am left to think they are at the beach. I want to let her know that I wish she would let me know when plans change. She will take this as me keeping tabs on her, but when she has the kids I need to know where they are. (Did I mention she was irrational??)

Dad you are absolutely right to know where the kids are and the other way around.
She is not acting responsibly in this regard.


----------



## dadof2

Lila said:


> Dadof2 - After reading much of the posts on this thread and the one you started over on Divorce and Separation, I can tell that the devastation from your STBX decision to divorce has caused you untold misery. However, in the interest of your future happiness with your two small children, you need to stop wallowing in this cesspool of bitterness and anger you have towards your STBX. Whether she betrayed you or not is moot. According to your own posts, in your <5 year marriage, you had huge fights (plural) where there was yelling, things were said, and "things were thrown". She chose divorce and that's all there is to it.
> 
> PLEASE consider your children before pursuing these highly publicized and contentious suits against the school district and the OM. There is no benefit to doing this except to soothe your ego because she chose to exit the marriage. Should she have worked harder on trying to save it? ABSOLUTELY! But based on everything I've read, unless you have some concrete proof of her "alleged" adulterous affair collected prior to the legal separation/filing for divorce, you will come out looking like a crazy, possessive, and obsessed husband. (even if she admitted kissing him, we live in a world where that barely gets a sigh)
> 
> You have several points in this divorce that are in your favor:
> 
> 
> You live in a No Fault state so the divorce can be clean and simple. You have said time and time again that you don't want to reconcile with her. No fuss no muss, and more importantly, you can MOVE ON with your life.
> You've mentioned that you most likely won't be responsible for spousal support following the divorce. She's gainfully employed (for now) and aside from child support, you won't need to drop another dime on her.
> She's given you 50/50 custody of your children. You'll be able to spend quality time with your children raising them to be good, morally right people.
> 
> 
> What do you hope to accomplish by telling her employer that she had an affair?
> 
> You want to see her fired? Well then, you'll be out spousal support until she can find another job of equal pay. Worse yet, she may have to move miles away from your town to find a county that will employ her, making accessibility to your kids that much more of a P.I.T.A..
> You want to hear all of the torrid/disgusting details of an affair with the coach....assuming she even cops out to it?
> Will tattooing a scarlett letter A to her forehead be enough?
> 
> I read your posts and see a person who is letting the bitterness and hatred associated with revenge get the better of him. You are focusing WAY too much time and effort into THEM. Instead, you need to start focusing on YOU. Establishing your long-term happiness again should be priority #1, not on hiring and firing divorce lawyers and PIs. Make positive choices that will bring back the guy you were before all of this happened.



I agree with a lot of your post Lila. I have spent most of this week concentrating on lawyers and PI's and have gotten away from working on myself. But I did see my IC this week as well as keeping up with my workout schedule. If anything, all of this work with lawyers and PI's has been a nice distraction from me feeling the betrayal and grieving of the marriage.

I know I am not done with the grieving process, but I think my anger and sense for revenge fits in here somehow. I don't want to hurt her, I just want to her to be called on the carpet for once. She is divorcing, already has a new boyfriend, and is living a happy carefree life. All this while telling her family and mutual friends that she was abused and they have no clue about OM. So yes, I want her to be held accountable and feel a fraction of the hurt I have been feeling for the last 6 weeks.

I know it is only a matter of time before the excitement of the PI chase blows over and I am back to being alone with my thoughts. I feel like I am getting better each day, but late at night and early in the morning are my worst times. That is when the thoughts of betrayal and "how could she" creep in.

I really do appreciate your advice. Us guys tend to circle the wagons and want to get the torches and pitchforks out to "make that ***** pay" but it is nice to hear a woman's perspective. But right now I am trying to temper my emotions, and I still think I am doing what is right to protect myself and children. Husbands and dads usually get the raw end of the deal and I want to at least put up a fight.


----------



## PBear

My advice... If your PI is on her, don't tip your hand or get her to change anything. If she's hooking up with the OM, she's got everything carefully set up, and you don't want to disrupt that. One weekend where your kids are with your in-laws is worth it if you get the proof you need. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

You could call and tell her you're sending up a surprise package for the kids to use at the beach, and ask her to take pictures of them with the stuff (at the beach).


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> My PI said I should text STBX's mom this afternoon to set up a FaceTime tonight. Then she will have to spill the beans and it gives me cover to contact STBX and ask if I can keep the kids this weekend.


As I was reading your post, by the time that I got to your #3 talking point, I was thinking ^this.

I'm liking your PI more and more.


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> As I was reading your post, by the time that I got to your #3 talking point, I was thinking ^this.
> 
> I'm liking your PI more and more.


In a plutonic way of course.


----------



## honcho

You are going to have to play oblivious to her being back in town with the kids, any “innocent” way you let her know will just feed her paranoia and raise suspicions. Play stupid even though you want to see your kids and help free up her time to meet the OM its just got too many ways to backfire on you.

You also seem to think that just because she has the kids she wont meet him, he can always go to her place after the kids go to bed, they can all go to his place. Mom and Dads house is sitting empty…they have plenty of ways to do things. Let them think no one knows she is in town and let them play the scheme out.


----------



## just got it 55

Lila said:


> Dadof2 - After reading much of the posts on this thread and the one you started over on Divorce and Separation, I can tell that the devastation from your STBX decision to divorce has caused you untold misery. However, in the interest of your future happiness with your two small children, you need to stop wallowing in this cesspool of bitterness and anger you have towards your STBX. Whether she betrayed you or not is moot. According to your own posts, in your <5 year marriage, you had huge fights (plural) where there was yelling, things were said, and "things were thrown". She chose divorce and that's all there is to it.
> 
> PLEASE consider your children before pursuing these highly publicized and contentious suits against the school district and the OM. There is no benefit to doing this except to soothe your ego because she chose to exit the marriage. Should she have worked harder on trying to save it? ABSOLUTELY! But based on everything I've read, unless you have some concrete proof of her "alleged" adulterous affair collected prior to the legal separation/filing for divorce, you will come out looking like a crazy, possessive, and obsessed husband. (even if she admitted kissing him, we live in a world where that barely gets a sigh)
> 
> You have several points in this divorce that are in your favor:
> 
> 
> You live in a No Fault state so the divorce can be clean and simple. You have said time and time again that you don't want to reconcile with her. No fuss no muss, and more importantly, you can MOVE ON with your life.
> You've mentioned that you most likely won't be responsible for spousal support following the divorce. She's gainfully employed (for now) and aside from child support, you won't need to drop another dime on her.
> She's given you 50/50 custody of your children. You'll be able to spend quality time with your children raising them to be good, morally right people.
> 
> 
> What do you hope to accomplish by telling her employer that she had an affair?
> 
> You want to see her fired? Well then, you'll be out spousal support until she can find another job of equal pay. Worse yet, she may have to move miles away from your town to find a county that will employ her, making accessibility to your kids that much more of a P.I.T.A..
> You want to hear all of the torrid/disgusting details of an affair with the coach....assuming she even cops out to it?
> Will tattooing a scarlett letter A to her forehead be enough?
> 
> I read your posts and see a person who is letting the bitterness and hatred associated with revenge get the better of him. You are focusing WAY too much time and effort into THEM. Instead, you need to start focusing on YOU. Establishing your long-term happiness again should be priority #1, not on hiring and firing divorce lawyers and PIs. Make positive choices that will bring back the guy you were before all of this happened.


Lila I am sure with a clear mind he knows this

But at this moment this is how he will clear his mind

He must make some kind of stand

I due time Lila in due time he wil get there

Your point is well taken though

55


----------



## dadof2

honcho said:


> You are going to have to play oblivious to her being back in town with the kids, any “innocent” way you let her know will just feed her paranoia and raise suspicions. Play stupid even though you want to see your kids and help free up her time to meet the OM its just got too many ways to backfire on you.
> 
> You also seem to think that just because she has the kids she wont meet him, he can always go to her place after the kids go to bed, they can all go to his place. Mom and Dads house is sitting empty…they have plenty of ways to do things. Let them think no one knows she is in town and let them play the scheme out.


I agree honcho. I texted her mom about 3 hours ago asking to FaceTime with kids later. Still no response. I have left it alone and PI is in place at her apt. PI also drove by OM's house and his truck was there so he is in town. We are hoping for OM to come over after kids got to bed tonight. I can't think that with her being gone a week they could not spend time together their first night back in town. Right now we are I'm wait and see mode.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dadof2

just got it 55 said:


> Lila I am sure with a clear mind he knows this
> 
> But at this moment this is how he will clear his mind
> 
> He must make some kind of stand
> 
> I due time Lila in due time he wil get there
> 
> Your point is well taken though
> 
> 55


Thanks for the support 55. That is right where I'm at. I know in the big picture I still have a lot of healing to do, but this has been a good way for me to keep from focusing on the loss I've experienced. Once this settled down and the long legal process begins, I will have plenty of time for healing. Right now I am living in this moment and trying to have a little fun with it. It is exciting getting updates from PI and coordinating where there next move may be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

I do not see it as revenge.

If my wife lead all of our family, friends and coworkers to believe that I was an abuser I would hold nothing back to get the truth out there.

Not as revenge.

Just to have the truth out there.

I would not expose at work so she loses her job. I would expose so that they both understand what they did was wrong and they broke the rules.

The best revenge Dadof2 will have is when he finds a beautiful woman that is honest, loving and cares for him and his kids.

But that cannot happen until this mess is sorted out.

Keep moving forward Dof2.

HM


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> I do not see it as revenge.
> 
> If my wife lead all of our family, friends and coworkers to believe that I was an abuser I would hold nothing back to get the truth out there.
> 
> Not as revenge.
> 
> Just to have the truth out there.
> 
> I would not expose at work so she loses her job. I would expose so that they both understand what they did was wrong and they broke the rules.
> 
> The best revenge Dadof2 will have is when he finds a beautiful woman that is honest, loving and cares for him and his kids.
> 
> But that cannot happen until this mess is sorted out.
> 
> Keep moving forward Dof2.
> 
> HM


hooraah!:lol:


----------



## bandit.45

But what is your end game here?

Is it just to protect your rep? Okay I. Get that. But it's already clear that her parents and most of your mutual friends know she's cheating and, well, they don't care. They are closer to her than you and they are willing to turn their backs on you to save the relationship with her, whether or not they approve. It comes down to who they value more.


----------



## 3putt

happyman64 said:


> *I would not expose at work so she loses her job. I would expose so that they both understand what they did was wrong and they broke the rules.*


While I agree with most of what you write, I disagree with this part. This adultery was born and bred on school grounds, and IMO, should be fully exposed to the principal, the superintendent, and the school board as well. If people suffer no consequences for workplace affairs, then they have no motivation to stop doing so.

Not saying she's innocent here at all, but there's no telling how many other marriages _could_ have been compromised by this supposed authority figure. You never know what kind of deeper truths may be revealed in the process of this until it's fully brought to light. That aside, the obvious truth here is enough to do so.


----------



## GusPolinski

Lila said:


> "The old law about an eye for an eye leaves everybody blind.", Dr. Martin Luther King.


Anyone dumb enough to repeat so costly an offense, having already lost an "eye" for the first infraction, deserves to be "blind".


----------



## 3putt

Lila said:


> "The old law about an eye for an eye leaves everybody blind.", Dr. Martin Luther King.


Cute little metaphors don't always ring as true as they seem to on the surface.

Sometimes it digs a little deeper than that, especially when it comes to adultery.

Does to me anyway.


----------



## honcho

People also do need to be held accountable for there actions and having them own the decisions that they have made. She could just as easily have walked in on day one told him and her family the truth and left instead of creating this world of drama and him being a monster and trying to excuse and rationalize her behavior. 

Revenge is one thing, holding people accountable is another. Our society has does far too little for holding people truly accountable for there own actions. His best long term revenge will be having a good life and being a great father but people do deserve to know the truth before they make decisions based on one sided stories especially when she is claiming abuse. 

Her actions have forever altered the course of his life and his kids. Legally he will most likely get nowhere in either a lawsuit or divorce setting because we excuse and don’t dare say anyone is to blame but the man has ever right to gain as much information as he can and use it as he sees fit whether its doing damage control or using it to obtain the best deal he can in divorce or doing nothing more than learning the truth for himself since she will never tell him.


----------



## happyman64

3putt said:


> While I agree with most of what you write, I disagree with this part. This adultery was born and bred on school grounds, and IMO, should be fully exposed to the principal, the superintendent, and the school board as well. If people suffer no consequences for workplace affairs, then they have no motivation to stop doing so.
> 
> Not saying she's innocent here at all, but there's no telling how many other marriages _could_ have been compromised by this supposed authority figure. You never know what kind of deeper truths may be revealed in the process of this until it's fully brought to light. That aside, the obvious truth here is enough to do so.


Sorry 3putt I was not clear. I do feel he should expose to the school board but for a different reason than revenge. Do it because they broke the rules. Fraternization, Supervisor-Underling relationship.

All of it is wrong.

The school needs to know because the Vice Principal is using his position of authority as well as his workplace to solicit sex.


----------



## Chuck71

as a former school teacher.... there are cameras in many areas of 

the school. you can turn them off but most have internal clock

I have not gotten to read your thread but I can already see what 

occurred. As for exposing.... when you consider this, do you feel

a rush of vengeance or..... a brick in the wall of moving forward


----------



## Squeakr

Chuck71 said:


> as a former school teacher.... there are cameras in many areas of
> 
> the school. you can turn them off but most have internal clock


Assuming you come from a more affluent district. My WW is a teacher as well and has been one for almost 20 years and in several different schools, districts, and a few different states, and in none of these were there EVER any cameras to monitor anything but one had a few for the outside grounds for security, and that was only one school.

The state we are in is one of the lowest for teacher compensation, so money for such luxuries doesn't exist and I know of lots of other states where this is the norm as well. I wouldn't expect these to be there in this case either.


----------



## Chuck71

Squeakr said:


> Assuming you come from a more affluent district. My WW is a teacher as well and has been one for almost 20 years and in several different schools, districts, and a few different states, and in none of these were there EVER any cameras to monitor anything but one had a few for the outside grounds for security, and that was only one school.
> 
> The state we are in is one of the lowest for teacher compensation, so money for such luxuries doesn't exist and I know of lots of other states where this is the norm as well. I wouldn't expect these to be there in this case either.


I taught in rural areas, all Title I, SIP every year

some everyone knew about, some very few did

90% were on free or reduced lunch so, no this activity goes on

in poor counties too (Big Brother)


----------



## Chuck71

Do2, this may have already been addressed but, how was your

stbx's childhood? If so, excuse me for re-asking


----------



## Squeakr

Chuck71 said:


> I taught in rural areas, all Title I, SIP every year
> 
> some everyone knew about, some very few did
> 
> 90% were on free or reduced lunch so, no this activity goes on
> 
> in poor counties too (Big Brother)


Not trying to debate this. WW has taught in that same environment most of her career, and Title 1 refers to the students attending the school and not the state per say, as the students incomes are what determines the Title 1 funding and how much federal support they get. I am in IT and have done consulting for several of these districts and know the security and IT personally and can tell you without a doubt that they are not in these districts and states (other than the aforementioned outside security, and one to two within the office and main hall leading to it).

I know Big Brother exists, but it is not as prevalent as is thought or expected.


----------



## Chuck71

Squeakr said:


> Not trying to debate this. WW has taught in that same environment most of her career, and Title 1 refers to the students attending the school and not the state per say, as the students incomes are what determines the Title 1 funding and how much federal support they get. I am in IT and have done consulting for several of these districts and know the security and IT personally and can tell you without a doubt that they are not in these districts and states (other than the aforementioned outside security, and one to two within the office and main hall leading to it).
> 
> I know Big Brother exists, but it is not as prevalent as is thought or expected.


there is nothing to debate


----------



## Racer

Anything happen over the weekend? How you holding together?


----------



## LongWalk

Are you friends with any of he colleagues?

There may be some who know about the affair and would tell you when others noticed the two of them had a thing.


----------



## dadof2

Sorry for the delay, but I have been catching up at work as well as meeting with my attorney to get our gameplan going.

UPDATE: I was finally served with papers Saturday. I had known for about 3 weeks that she had filed due to checking the online records. STBX never told me that she had filed, and I haven't indicated to her yet that I have been served.

I met with my new attorney Monday morning, and she is a lot more aggressive than the previous one. I was able to get the majority of my retainer refunded from Atty #1 so I am glad that wasn't a fight. I also had the PI on STBX this weekend. Like I mentioned earlier, she came home from vacation on Friday without telling me. When I asked to Facetime with children later that night she did not respond. PI did not see her leave her house from 4 pm Friday until 10 pm. She finally responded Saturday apologizing for not answering and saying that she and kids will be home Saturday. I ask to let me know when they get home as I would like to keep the kids for a few days being that I went a week without seeing them. She did not respond immediately. 

PI picked her up Saturday afternoon and STBX took the kids to OM's house and the PI got footage of OM giving my kids rides on 4 wheeler while STBX watched. OM's 10 year old daughter was also there. While they are at OM's house, STBX texted me saying they are stuck in traffic and will be home late and if I could just get the kids the next day. I immediately let the PI know this and she said to go along with it and ask to at least Facetime that night. I asked for facetime and she said it depends on what time they get home. PI had them leaving OM's place and arriving at at her apartment around 9 pm. STBX puts the kids on facetime with me around 9:15 that night. I talk to my 3 year old about the vacation and ask what he did that day. He said "We played" and then I hear STBX's voice from right outside of camera range saying "No we sat in the car all day."

So we have a couple of good hits from the custody side of things, but it looks like adultery has slipped through our fingers. It is very hard to prove adultery in our state and all the footage we have is borderline at best and it all occurred after her filing. We all know what she has done, but knowing it and proving it are 2 different animals. The fact that she kept me from talking to kids on Friday night, then did not let me have them saturday night, then coached a 3 year old on how to lie makes her look very bad from a custody standpoint. PI and lawyer are aware of this and they are holding it close to the vest until it comes down to the custody battle. 

One big hurdle that we have in front of us now is the restraining order she put in place preventing me or a third party under my orders (PI) to be within 100 yards of her. My attorney was irate that the judge signed the RO. STBX made no specific instances of abuse and has no supporting evidence requiring a RO. Our hearing is not until August so we are trying to either move it up or file a request to strike the RO immediately. STBX has violated her own order twice now by coming to my home to drop off/pick up children. The RO says I am not to contact her in any way, but then her custody arrangement says we must be in contact about kids schedules, needs, etc. My lawyer said the judge more than likely did not even read the petition, she just signed wherever her clerk flagged it for her. How sad.

I stressed to my attorney how betrayed I feel and how hurt I have been over the last 6 weeks while STBX is feeling no pain and is living her great new fantasy life with OM. I told her I want to make STBX hurt. I also said I don't want to look desperate by making wild claims that don't stick and then I have all the egg on my face. Attorney said we will use evidence of her whereabouts from the PI to send her a Request for Admissions in our response. Basically we will make statements about what we have observed over the last few weeks and make her confirm or deny it. If she confirms, then she helps dig her own grave, if she denies, then we call her in for a deposition and show our evidence. It is not used a lot in divorce proceedings, but I really like this tool.

As far as exposing to school, I am still 100% in favor, but I keep getting advised to hold off. I am very frustrated by this. But my attorney said that since STBX claims abuse that she could stand in front of the judge and say that I sent a letter to her school trying to get her fired and it makes me look like a crazy jealous ex-husband. I am trying to negotiate away from permanent spousal support and doing something like this would definitely make her unwilling to agree to anything. I want to get this out there so badly, but I think the advice to wait is smart. It would make me feel great in the short term, but if it costs me an extra $1000 a month in spousal support I will be kicking my own arse for years. The attorney assured me that the statements she will put in the Request for Admissions will go very far in scaring the **** out of her.


----------



## Chaparral

No subpoena for her phone and text records/contents?


----------



## dadof2

Chaparral said:


> No subpoena for her phone and text records/contents?


That came up as a possibility. They mainly communicate through texting, and they use iMessage. I have read a lot online about the difficulty of getting those records. If anyone has any insight on how to obtain Imessage records I would appreciate it.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> That came up as a possibility. They mainly communicate through texting, and they use iMessage. I have read a lot online about the difficulty of getting those records. If anyone has any insight on how to obtain Imessage records I would appreciate it.


Do you have her Apple ID and password?


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> Do you have her Apple ID and password?


Yes I do. I have thought about setting it up on my device, but I tried doing it on an ipad and it tells the user that :iMessage is now being used on XXX's iphone"


----------



## SF-FAN

Maybe you already addressed this but why didn't you fight the RO? When you are served with a TRO, you have the right to reply and get a hearing to tell your side of the story. It is very normal for a judge to just sign a RO without reading the contents which sucks but I would have fought it and asked for her to submit evidence.

It's ridiculous to have a RO on a spouse that you exchange children with especially if there is no abuse - you'd think a judge would think about it a little more before allowing it.


----------



## Squeakr

If she backs up to iCloud you could log into her account and get the backup from the iCloud.....Just saying'......


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> Maybe you already addressed this but why didn't you fight the RO? When you are served with a TRO, you have the right to reply and get a hearing to tell your side of the story. It is very normal for a judge to just sign a RO without reading the contents which sucks but I would have fought it and asked for her to submit evidence.
> 
> It's ridiculous to have a RO on a spouse that you exchange children with especially if there is no abuse - you'd think a judge would think about it a little more before allowing it.


Agreed, an I think he did contest it, as he said the hearing was in August and they were trying to get it moved up or an order to strike the RO enacted. Just another example of how the double standard works against the man, as this same thing wouldn't happen as easily against women.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Yes I do. I have thought about setting it up on my device, but I tried doing it on an ipad and it tells the user that :iMessage is now being used on XXX's iphone"


Oh. Dude. Don't set up her account on your device or any other device -- you're correct, she'll immediately know what's up.

Wondershare Dr. Fone

You can use this app (Mac and Windows versions are available) to restore directly from iCloud backups of her device. In fact, once you use the app to log into her account, you should see at least 2-3 backups that you can restore from. You should probably log in, grab any that are available, and then, every morning, log in and grab the most recent backup. Once you've done that, you can get a complete export of all of her photos, contacts, texts, etc -- whatever she's backing up. You should be able to get at least some deleted stuff as well but, as she's already separated and filed, she's probably not deleting much these days.

Dude, seriously... I'm barely able to contain myself... I'm holding back giddy laughter for you as I type this.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

GusPolinski said:


> Oh. Dude. Don't set up her account on your device or any other device -- you're correct, she'll immediately know what's up.
> 
> Wondershare Dr. Fone
> 
> You can use this app (Mac and Windows versions are available) to restore directly from iCloud backups of her device. In fact, once you use the app to log into her account, you should see at least 2-3 backups that you can restore from. You should probably log in, grab any that are available, and then, every morning, log in and grab the most recent backup. Once you've done that, you can get a complete export of all of her photos, contacts, texts, etc -- whatever she's backing up. You should be able to get at least some deleted stuff as well but, as she's already separated and filed, she's probably not deleting much these days.
> 
> Dude, seriously... I'm barely able to contain myself... I'm holding back giddy laughter for you as I type this.


:rofl: That so made me laugh...

I pictured two school boys, saying "just do it" to little johnny... and giddy giggles as he walks off to do just "that."


----------



## GusPolinski

Blossom Leigh said:


> :rofl: That so made me laugh...
> 
> I pictured two school boys, saying "just do it" to little johnny... and giddy giggles as he walks off to do just "that."


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


>


Gus I just sent you a PM


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Gus I just sent you a PM


Uhhh... You sure? I don't have anything...


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> Uhhh... You sure? I don't have anything...


I actually made the post before I typed the message...too many meetings today has my brain fried!!


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

I feel for you OP. It takes a special combination of cruelty and strategic planning to plan a b/s restraining order against you. The fact she is exposing your children to POSOM before the ink is even dry on the divorce serve would make my head explode.


----------



## GusPolinski

CASE_Sensitive said:


> I feel for you OP. It takes a special combination of cruelty and strategic planning to plan a b/s restraining order against you. *The fact she is exposing your children to POSOM before the ink is even dry on the divorce serve would make my head explode.*


Yeah, especially if she hasn't even discussed it w/ him yet.


----------



## honcho

Now that you have been properly served papers unless you are the account holder on the phone you will run into problems and have the potential for all sorts of legal “invasion of privacy” nonsense. Up to the day you got served you had rights to access the info, after you don’t. 

Getting a subpoena to access the records is basically useless, the court could very well give you one but the phone provider wont follow it and they rarely do. They could care less what some county divorce court asks for since the provider is usually in a different state and has no penalty. This is where things start to fall under spending money for nothing. This happens not only with phone records but bank, credit card companies etc. 

If you are the actual account holder of the phone its one thing, and I ran into these issues in my own headache as my stbx had one of our company phones so it wasn’t her property and everything on the phone basically was owned by the company. I wasn’t accessing the info as by that point I didn’t care but I had more than one visit from the sheriffs dept with the stalking claims of getting into the information by her.


----------



## Squeakr

Just make sure that the information that you gather and use is prior to the sate of serving so that she wouldn't have as strong of a claim if she does, as you could claim it was before the "official" serving.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2, you should probably ask one of the mods to move this thread to the Private Members' Section forum.


----------



## 3putt

CASE_Sensitive said:


> I feel for you OP. It takes a special combination of cruelty and strategic planning to plan a b/s restraining order against you. The fact she is exposing your children to POSOM before the ink is even dry on the divorce serve would make my head explode.


Not to mention having them lie to their father about their whereabouts and with whom they are spending their time.


----------



## happyman64

3putt said:


> Not to mention having them lie to their father about their whereabouts and with whom they are spending their time.


And for that reason alone is why he should report them to the school board. 

She has a false RO.
She is actively screwing with the kids heads.

Just wrong.

But I do agree you should listen to your attorney as to when you approach the school board and as to how you approach them.

She is really, really dumb Dadof2. But worse, she is brazen.

Please do not leave her parents out when you nail her. They need to see their daughter for the liar, cheater, manipulator and butthead she really is.

HM


----------



## dadof2

happyman64 said:


> And for that reason alone is why he should report them to the school board.
> 
> She has a false RO.
> She is actively screwing with the kids heads.
> 
> Just wrong.
> 
> But I do agree you should listen to your attorney as to when you approach the school board and as to how you approach them.
> 
> She is really, really dumb Dadof2. But worse, she is brazen.
> 
> Please do not leave her parents out when you nail her. They need to see their daughter for the liar, cheater, manipulator and butthead she really is.
> 
> HM


I agree with you, she is not very smart but also caught up in her affair so much she is leaving herself open to a lot. Sadly I can't get her on adultery for an immediate divorce. OM has been divorced before, so I believe he coached her through her filing and may have even told her to get the RO.

It sucks to know that this is what I am going to be dealing with for the rest of my life as we try to work to raise our children. Our kids started summer camp 3 days a week this past Monday, and I took them Monday and today. STBX picked them up today and has no idea where the kids classrooms are, what supplies they need, etc. I sent her an email with all of the info about what the kids need and she just replied with "I got it." This is so not the person I have known for so long, it is truly mind blowing how an affair can change someone so fast. 

I did a trial scan of her account on Dr. Fone, but as I suspected, she has iCloud backup turned off, so that was a dead end.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> I did a trial scan of her account on Dr. Fone, but as I suspected, she has iCloud backup turned off, so that was a dead end.


Was she ever in the habit of backing it up to a PC or Mac? If so, you may have an old (or even newer) backup lying around w/o realizing it.


----------



## happyman64

No matter what Dadof2 use what you have as leverage.

If you can pull her and the OM into court or for a deposition you should do it.

Just for the RO and the lies you should do it.

I know how it feels to be so disappointed in her.

She is not the woman you married.

Don't forget to treat her like that.

And love those kids. They certainly need it right now.

The truth will come out soon. Did she ask if you were served when she dropped the kids off?


----------



## honcho

You also have the double headache right now with the R/O being in place. You potentially playing around with her phone is a violation of the R/O. You are basically found guilty on day one with R/O’s without any real hearing, it’s a great system and the courts hand them out like candy on Halloween. Don’t make it easy for them to make a temp order permanent 

Have your lawyer do whatever she can to get the R/O either dismissed or at least a case heard on it. Follow the rules of the R/O to the letter as you have too much at stake right now in the long term game. She will try and get to violate the order and most do try and its easy to do especially because you have the kid factor.


----------



## dadof2

happyman64 said:


> No matter what Dadof2 use what you have as leverage.
> 
> If you can pull her and the OM into court or for a deposition you should do it.
> 
> Just for the RO and the lies you should do it.
> 
> I know how it feels to be so disappointed in her.
> 
> She is not the woman you married.
> 
> Don't forget to treat her like that.
> 
> And love those kids. They certainly need it right now.
> 
> The truth will come out soon. Did she ask if you were served when she dropped the kids off?


We discussed having her and OM come in for a deposition in they meeting with my attorney. Based on the evidence we get from the PI and a possible deposition, we may also request a deposition of the principal. This will put him on full alert a lot better than an email would.

No she has never asked if I have been served and she never notified me that she filed. It is like I have been living in bizarro world for the last 6 weeks. She honestly thinks that since she moved out we no longer have to speak. The only conversation we have is when I text her about the kids. She does not keep me apprised of what they are doing when they are with her. Its like she thinks whatever happens to them while she has custody is none of my business. Its almost like I have made things easy on her by not pushing or asking what the hell is going on. But I learned early on in my 180 not to beg, plead, or ask for a "status report."

She is about to get all the info she needs on what I have been doing in the last few weeks. I have been getting my legal ducks in a row and building my case. I seriously doubt she has even spoken to her lawyer since she filed over a month ago. When my attorney hits her with the Request for Admissions she will hopefully sober up very quickly.


----------



## LongWalk

Agree that the RO should be fought. A deposition of vice principal OM would be good. Would that mean that your attorney could quiz him on what your WW said to him about D strategy?

Putting POSOM on Cheaterville is a good way to bring pressure on them. Although it will be obvious that you posted it, they cannot prove and fighting a legal battle will be bad for them since they can only lose.



> Sam Smith, Vice Principal of xxxx school, has entered into a adulterous relationship with a subordinate colleague. Smith is divorced, but his affair partner is married mother of two young children. Smith made sexual overtures to his colleague after she joined a workout class for staff that he led.


Once this gets spread around the community, meeting parents will not be so pleasant for POSOM. Many pupils will eventually pick up on it and he will question the cost of sleeping with your WW. 

Do you know where his ex lives? Perhaps he cheated on her and that was the cause of their divorce.


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> Do you know where his ex lives? Perhaps he cheated on her and that was the cause of their divorce.


My PI is working on printing his divorce file to see why they divorced. It is all public record so the PI is working to obtain a copy.

As I understand it, the deposition would be a series of questions with lawyers present and a court reporter. She can ask him anything she wants and his lawyer can object if need be. They would be under oath just like sitting on the witness stand.

That is why I would love to get a deposition of OM. He would **** his pants when he gets served to give a deposition. All he wants is an easy piece of tail, not to have to lawyer up and give answers.


----------



## 6301

dadof2 said:


> Sorry for the delay, but I have been catching up at work as well as meeting with my attorney to get our gameplan going.
> 
> UPDATE: I was finally served with papers Saturday. I had known for about 3 weeks that she had filed due to checking the online records. STBX never told me that she had filed, and I haven't indicated to her yet that I have been served.
> 
> I met with my new attorney Monday morning, and she is a lot more aggressive than the previous one. I was able to get the majority of my retainer refunded from Atty #1 so I am glad that wasn't a fight. I also had the PI on STBX this weekend. Like I mentioned earlier, she came home from vacation on Friday without telling me. When I asked to Facetime with children later that night she did not respond. PI did not see her leave her house from 4 pm Friday until 10 pm. She finally responded Saturday apologizing for not answering and saying that she and kids will be home Saturday. I ask to let me know when they get home as I would like to keep the kids for a few days being that I went a week without seeing them. She did not respond immediately.
> 
> PI picked her up Saturday afternoon and STBX took the kids to OM's house and the PI got footage of OM giving my kids rides on 4 wheeler while STBX watched. OM's 10 year old daughter was also there. While they are at OM's house, STBX texted me saying they are stuck in traffic and will be home late and if I could just get the kids the next day. I immediately let the PI know this and she said to go along with it and ask to at least Facetime that night. I asked for facetime and she said it depends on what time they get home. PI had them leaving OM's place and arriving at at her apartment around 9 pm. STBX puts the kids on facetime with me around 9:15 that night. I talk to my 3 year old about the vacation and ask what he did that day. He said "We played" and then I hear STBX's voice from right outside of camera range saying "No we sat in the car all day."
> 
> So we have a couple of good hits from the custody side of things, but it looks like adultery has slipped through our fingers. It is very hard to prove adultery in our state and all the footage we have is borderline at best and it all occurred after her filing. We all know what she has done, but knowing it and proving it are 2 different animals. The fact that she kept me from talking to kids on Friday night, then did not let me have them saturday night, then coached a 3 year old on how to lie makes her look very bad from a custody standpoint. PI and lawyer are aware of this and they are holding it close to the vest until it comes down to the custody battle.
> 
> One big hurdle that we have in front of us now is the restraining order she put in place preventing me or a third party under my orders (PI) to be within 100 yards of her. My attorney was irate that the judge signed the RO. STBX made no specific instances of abuse and has no supporting evidence requiring a RO. Our hearing is not until August so we are trying to either move it up or file a request to strike the RO immediately. STBX has violated her own order twice now by coming to my home to drop off/pick up children. The RO says I am not to contact her in any way, but then her custody arrangement says we must be in contact about kids schedules, needs, etc. My lawyer said the judge more than likely did not even read the petition, she just signed wherever her clerk flagged it for her. How sad.
> 
> I stressed to my attorney how betrayed I feel and how hurt I have been over the last 6 weeks while STBX is feeling no pain and is living her great new fantasy life with OM. I told her I want to make STBX hurt. I also said I don't want to look desperate by making wild claims that don't stick and then I have all the egg on my face. Attorney said we will use evidence of her whereabouts from the PI to send her a Request for Admissions in our response. Basically we will make statements about what we have observed over the last few weeks and make her confirm or deny it. If she confirms, then she helps dig her own grave, if she denies, then we call her in for a deposition and show our evidence. It is not used a lot in divorce proceedings, but I really like this tool.
> 
> As far as exposing to school, I am still 100% in favor, but I keep getting advised to hold off. I am very frustrated by this. But my attorney said that since STBX claims abuse that she could stand in front of the judge and say that I sent a letter to her school trying to get her fired and it makes me look like a crazy jealous ex-husband. I am trying to negotiate away from permanent spousal support and doing something like this would definitely make her unwilling to agree to anything. I want to get this out there so badly, but I think the advice to wait is smart. It would make me feel great in the short term, but if it costs me an extra $1000 a month in spousal support I will be kicking my own arse for years. The attorney assured me that the statements she will put in the Request for Admissions will go very far in scaring the **** out of her.


 IMO, if you like your attorney and feel that there doing a good job then if they tell you to stand on your head and spit bb's then do it. That's what they get paid for.


----------



## Chaparral

Attorneys are all about the money and time. TAM is about the personal toll and how to handle real life. These threads always go south when the attorneys get involved. #1 advice from an attorney is to bend over, play nice, and take it. Ie, roll over and play dead.


----------



## 3putt

Chaparral said:


> Attorneys are all about the money and time. TAM is about the personal toll and how to handle real life. These threads always go south when the attorneys get involved. #1 advice from an attorney is to bend over, play nice, and take it. Ie, roll over and play dead.


Yep! He's got more than enough to spring into action. This is getting strung along unnecessarily for other people's cash flow.


----------



## LongWalk

dadof2 said:


> My PI is working on printing his divorce file to see why they divorced. It is all public record so the PI is working to obtain a copy.
> 
> As I understand it, the deposition would be a series of questions with lawyers present and a court reporter. She can ask him anything she wants and his lawyer can object if need be. They would be under oath just like sitting on the witness stand.
> 
> That is why I would love to get a deposition of OM. He would **** his pants when he gets served to give a deposition. All he wants is an easy piece of tail, not to have to lawyer up and give answers.


Public opinion will be against Vice Principal having an affair with a teacher and destroying her marriage. If you give them enough time they will do a PR spin job that will leave you open mouthed and dumb. You need to be ahead of them.

Of course you are paying a lawyer, but the lawyer's first interest is billing hours.


----------



## Decorum

How awful, I am so sorry dadof2.

She is poisoning all the precious things in her life and she is too unaware to even know it.

Marriages fail but she is behaving despicably, and with such callous disregard and disrespect.

She seems willing to pay any price to pursue her fantasy. She has decided what kind of person she wants to be, don’t let it poison you. 

People like that are not worth it. Get through this.

I really wish you and your kids well.
Take care!


----------



## 3putt

Decorum said:


> How awful, I am so sorry dadof2.
> 
> She is poisoning all the precious things in her life and she is too unaware to even know it.
> 
> Marriages fail but she is behaving despicably, and with such callous disregard and disrespect.
> 
> *She seems willing to pay any price to pursue her fantasy. *She has decided what kind of person she wants to be, don’t let it poison you.
> 
> People like that are not worth it. Get through this.
> 
> I really wish you and your kids well.
> Take care!


The bolded part is what is key here. She hasn't even begun to realize the full price that her betrayal will cost her. This will get very expensive for her in more ways than just monetarily.


----------



## turnera

LongWalk said:


> Public opinion will be against Vice Principal having an affair with a teacher and destroying her marriage. If you give them enough time they will do a PR spin job that will leave you open mouthed and dumb. You need to be ahead of them.
> 
> Of course you are paying a lawyer, but the lawyer's first interest is billing hours.


I had a case against my DD's elementary school for something done wrong there but they all banded together so fast to support and defend each other it made my head spin. Remember that they see parents come and go, so the teachers and staff stick together; I've no doubt they'll do it to a teacher's spouse as well.


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2,

What do you expect to gain at this point from continuing to use a PI & trying to hack her phone/text records?


----------



## jim123

dadof2 said:


> Sorry for the delay, but I have been catching up at work as well as meeting with my attorney to get our gameplan going.
> 
> UPDATE: I was finally served with papers Saturday. I had known for about 3 weeks that she had filed due to checking the online records. STBX never told me that she had filed, and I haven't indicated to her yet that I have been served.
> 
> I met with my new attorney Monday morning, and she is a lot more aggressive than the previous one. I was able to get the majority of my retainer refunded from Atty #1 so I am glad that wasn't a fight. I also had the PI on STBX this weekend. Like I mentioned earlier, she came home from vacation on Friday without telling me. When I asked to Facetime with children later that night she did not respond. PI did not see her leave her house from 4 pm Friday until 10 pm. She finally responded Saturday apologizing for not answering and saying that she and kids will be home Saturday. I ask to let me know when they get home as I would like to keep the kids for a few days being that I went a week without seeing them. She did not respond immediately.
> 
> PI picked her up Saturday afternoon and STBX took the kids to OM's house and the PI got footage of OM giving my kids rides on 4 wheeler while STBX watched. OM's 10 year old daughter was also there. While they are at OM's house, STBX texted me saying they are stuck in traffic and will be home late and if I could just get the kids the next day. I immediately let the PI know this and she said to go along with it and ask to at least Facetime that night. I asked for facetime and she said it depends on what time they get home. PI had them leaving OM's place and arriving at at her apartment around 9 pm. STBX puts the kids on facetime with me around 9:15 that night. I talk to my 3 year old about the vacation and ask what he did that day. He said "We played" and then I hear STBX's voice from right outside of camera range saying "No we sat in the car all day."
> 
> So we have a couple of good hits from the custody side of things, but it looks like adultery has slipped through our fingers. It is very hard to prove adultery in our state and all the footage we have is borderline at best and it all occurred after her filing. We all know what she has done, but knowing it and proving it are 2 different animals. The fact that she kept me from talking to kids on Friday night, then did not let me have them saturday night, then coached a 3 year old on how to lie makes her look very bad from a custody standpoint. PI and lawyer are aware of this and they are holding it close to the vest until it comes down to the custody battle.
> 
> One big hurdle that we have in front of us now is the restraining order she put in place preventing me or a third party under my orders (PI) to be within 100 yards of her. My attorney was irate that the judge signed the RO. STBX made no specific instances of abuse and has no supporting evidence requiring a RO. Our hearing is not until August so we are trying to either move it up or file a request to strike the RO immediately. STBX has violated her own order twice now by coming to my home to drop off/pick up children. The RO says I am not to contact her in any way, but then her custody arrangement says we must be in contact about kids schedules, needs, etc. My lawyer said the judge more than likely did not even read the petition, she just signed wherever her clerk flagged it for her. How sad.
> 
> I stressed to my attorney how betrayed I feel and how hurt I have been over the last 6 weeks while STBX is feeling no pain and is living her great new fantasy life with OM. I told her I want to make STBX hurt. I also said I don't want to look desperate by making wild claims that don't stick and then I have all the egg on my face. Attorney said we will use evidence of her whereabouts from the PI to send her a Request for Admissions in our response. Basically we will make statements about what we have observed over the last few weeks and make her confirm or deny it. If she confirms, then she helps dig her own grave, if she denies, then we call her in for a deposition and show our evidence. It is not used a lot in divorce proceedings, but I really like this tool.
> 
> As far as exposing to school, I am still 100% in favor, but I keep getting advised to hold off. I am very frustrated by this. But my attorney said that since STBX claims abuse that she could stand in front of the judge and say that I sent a letter to her school trying to get her fired and it makes me look like a crazy jealous ex-husband. I am trying to negotiate away from permanent spousal support and doing something like this would definitely make her unwilling to agree to anything. I want to get this out there so badly, but I think the advice to wait is smart. It would make me feel great in the short term, but if it costs me an extra $1000 a month in spousal support I will be kicking my own arse for years. The attorney assured me that the statements she will put in the Request for Admissions will go very far in scaring the **** out of her.


She can not violate the RO, it is on you. She can go anywhere she wants. Please get out if she comes over. Follow the RO to the letter.


----------



## GusPolinski

EleGirl said:


> dadof2,
> 
> What do you expect to gain at this point from continuing to use a PI & trying to hack her phone/text records?


Assuming that I've been able to following the logic that OP has demonstrated here thus far, I'd say that he's looking for any evidence that will conclusively prove that a sexual relationship existed between WW and OM prior to the separation. In short, he's hoping to find a "smoking gun".

Additionally, he's hoping to use said evidence in order to gain leverage that will convince her to agree to a settlement that excludes any and all spousal support, as well as dropping the RO.

I don't blame him at all, especially since divorce seems like a foregone conclusion at this point. Thus far she's disrespected him at every turn, both actively and passively. He's just trying to regain a measure of self-respect.


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Assuming that I've been able to following the logic that OP has demonstrated here thus far, I'd say that looking for any evidence that will conclusively prove that a sexual relationship existed between WW and OM prior to the separation. In short, he's hoping to find a "smoking gun".
> 
> Additionally, he's hoping to use said evidence in order to gain leverage that will convince her to agree to a settlement that excludes any and all spousal support, as well as dropping the RO.
> 
> I don't blame him at all, especially since divorce seems like a foregone conclusion at this point. Thus far she's disrespected him at every turn, both actively and passively. He's just trying to regain a measure of self-respect.


:iagree::iagree:
This round is on Gus


----------



## BobSimmons

As for use of PI, at least he knows the extent of his WW duplicity. When he wants to speak to the kids and she doesn't respond or lies, he knows exactly what is happening.

It may not conclusively prove adultery in court, but it certainly will clear up any misgivings about how ruthless his WW. He now has to do what is best for him and his children.


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> Assuming that I've been able to following the logic that OP has demonstrated here thus far, I'd say that looking for any evidence that will conclusively prove that a sexual relationship existed between WW and OM prior to the separation. In short, he's hoping to find a "smoking gun".
> 
> Additionally, he's hoping to use said evidence in order to gain leverage that will convince her to agree to a settlement that excludes any and all spousal support, as well as dropping the RO.
> 
> I don't blame him at all, especially since divorce seems like a foregone conclusion at this point. Thus far she's disrespected him at every turn, both actively and passively. He's just trying to regain a measure of self-respect.


This is precisely why I am pursuing any possible angle to try to help my case. Divorce is a foregone conclusion at this point. She could have come to me months ago and said she wanted out of the marriage and we could have handled it maturely. But she got caught cheating, trickle truthed it, and then moved out saying it was "temporary." She filed for Divorce without any discussion, and has been seeing OM for weeks now, and to top it off she brought my kids to see him while telling me they were out of town.

I have told the PI to hold off for now due to the restraining order. I understand that we won't get a court ruling of adultery, but when we file our response she will know that I know the truth. Then I will inform her parents of the truth, only to regain some self respect for myself. They will likely not believe it, but you cant argue with the evidence that I have collected. They have no clue she is seeing OM, all they know is that they "kissed" 2 months ago and that is when we began down this road.

To me it is about self respect, not revenge. I realize I will not get any immediate gratification in this process. I have been so antsy to send this email to her principal, but my attorney gave me the official word to hold off yesterday. Due to the RO, I need to be on my best behavior to impress the court. We are fighting to get it lifted. Once it is lifted, the PI will continue to work on my custody case. STBX is offering 50/50 which I am fine with, but now that she has kept me from seeing them and lied about there whereabouts, I want to gather more evidence of this so I can have them the majority of the time. Coaching a 3 year old to lie is where I draw the line. Again, if she would have handled this differently, I would not be doing all of this. But she has shown a consistent lack of respect for me and an overall attitude of not caring about anything but herself. I plan to smash that fantasy, but am having to do it through the legal system which turns very slowly.


----------



## Squeakr

jim123 said:


> She can not violate the RO, it is on you. She can go anywhere she wants. Please get out if she comes over. Follow the RO to the letter.


Yes but she has a diligence to abide by it as she wanted it and is the one that was so concerned about safety that she shouldn't be putting herself into situations that could be harmful, in this case being in close proximity of the BS.

Dadof2 you need to check with your lawyer and see if you have a right to retreat in situations like this and how you are protected. She came to your house (it should be considered your house since she has left and has taken another residence). I would hope that the castle doctrine (or some variation thereof) would come into play with this situation as well? It sees that if she is purposely putting you into this situation she is causing you to violate the order by her actions.

In the meantime, I would get with your lawyer and have an exchange agreement of sorts drawn up, so that some selected third party could handle the exchange of the kids and thus avoid any RO issues. She could drop off at the agreed upon third party by such a time and be out of the place of exchange (at least out of the distance stated in the RO so you wouldn't violate it), so that you could then come in and get the kids without fear of violation of the RO. this affords both of you the safety desired during the exchange of the children and also abides by the terms of the RO.


----------



## Ripper

jim123 said:


> She can not violate the RO, it is on you. She can go anywhere she wants. Please get out if she comes over. Follow the RO to the letter.


This is another example of where the law is just stupid. If someone takes an RO out on you, the same conditions should apply to them as well.

If you haven't already, get your hands on the affidavit she filed to get it, and see what kind of story she is crafting. Talk with your attorney about custody exchanges and what you can do when she comes around. Carry a VAR and even video if possible when you are out. She may try to force you into a violation once you start retaliating. You may have to go the same route and take out your own RO, *if* you can get one.

She has proven beyond any doubt that she will do anything to stick it to you during this process. Hope you can find some course of action that gives you a sense of justice.


----------



## EleGirl

GusPolinski said:


> Assuming that I've been able to following the logic that OP has demonstrated here thus far, I'd say that looking for any evidence that will conclusively prove that a sexual relationship existed between WW and OM prior to the separation. In short, he's hoping to find a "smoking gun".
> 
> Additionally, he's hoping to use said evidence in order to gain leverage that will convince her to agree to a settlement that excludes any and all spousal support, as well as dropping the RO.
> 
> I don't blame him at all, especially since divorce seems like a foregone conclusion at this point. Thus far she's disrespected him at every turn, both actively and passively. He's just trying to regain a measure of self-respect.


I really wanted to hear a response in Do2's words.


----------



## EleGirl

Here are my concerns.

Since you cannot prove adultery I doubt that there is any way that you will get out of paying interim spousal support until the divorce is final. In one of your most recent posts you stated that you were trying to avoid permanent spousal support. But you already know that there is no chance of permanent support in your case since you have been married less than 5 years and she is self-supporting.

Your stbx has offered 50/50 custody. If you now come in with guns blazing trying to get more than 50%, I think you are going to look bad to the court and she is going to look like the reasonable party.

The fact that the evidence you have that she coached your child to lie was gathered in violation of an existing RO; the very fact that you had a PI following her around after the divorce and RO will not look good for you.

Your wife did not w/h the children from you. It was still her time based on your verbal agreement with her. Plus you have no official agreement so there was nothing for her to violate.

From what I have seen in custody fights, the courts could care less if she came home a day or two earlier and did not tell you. They could care less if she coaches your child to lie about where they were that day. The courts are full of custody cases with real abuse, real problems. They do not exist to micro referee your joint parenting.

When my son’s father and I divorced. I offered 50/50 custody. He fought it, trying for full custody, with all sorts of lies and drummed up stuff. The court ordered a custody evaluation because of this. In the end, after we both spent thousands that never needed to be spent, the court gave him less time than what I had originally offered. Why did he put up this fight? Because he lawyers egged him on. 

Often what is viewed as a shark of a lawyer is really one that stirs the pot and promises their client all kinds of things. They cause the divorce to get very contentious. The only person who wins in a contentious divorce is your lawyer.

IT’s going to be interesting to see if all this drama you are putting yourself through is going to pan out to anything except a colossal money sink.


----------



## thatbpguy

EleGirl said:


> Here are my concerns.
> 
> Since you cannot approve adultery I doubt that there is any way that you will get out of paying interim spousal support until the divorce is final. In one of your most recent posts you stated that you were trying to avoid permanent spousal support. But you already know that there is no chance of permanent support in your case since you have been married less than 5 years and she is self-supporting.
> 
> Your stbx has offered 50/50 custody. If you now come in with guns basing trying to get more than 50% I think you are going to look bad to the court and she is going to look like the reasonable party.
> 
> The fact that the evidence you have that she coached your child to lie was gathered in violation of an existing RO. The very fact that you had a PI following her around after the divorce and RO will not look good for you.
> 
> Your wife did not w/h the children from you. It was still her time based on your verbal agreement with her. Plus you have no official agreement so there was nothing for her to violate.
> From what I have seen in custody fights, the courts could care less if she came home a day or two earlier and did not tell you. They could care less if she coaches your child to lie about where they were that day. The courts are full of custody cases with real abuse, real problems. They do not exists to micro referee your joint parenting.
> 
> When my son’s father and I divorced. I offered 50/50 custody. He fought it, trying for full custody, with all sorts of lies and drummed up stuff. The court ordered a custody evaluation because of this. In the end, after we both spent thousands that never needed to be spent, the court gave him less time than what I had originally offered. Why did he put up this fight? Because he lawyers egged him on.
> 
> Often what is viewed as a shark of a lawyers is really one that stirs the pot and promises their client all kinds of things. They up cause the divorce to get very contentious. The only person who wins in a contentious divorce is your lawyer.
> 
> IT’s going to be interesting to see if all this drama you are putting yourself through is going to pan out to anything except a colossal money sink.


A very fine post with good sound thinking.


----------



## 6301

What I don't understand is if she has a RO against you, then how do you pick up your kids and shouldn't the RO include any type of communication?


----------



## dadof2

EleGirl said:


> Here are my concerns.
> 
> Since you cannot approve adultery I doubt that there is any way that you will get out of paying interim spousal support until the divorce is final. In one of your most recent posts you stated that you were trying to avoid permanent spousal support. *But you already know that there is no chance of permanent support in your case since you have been married less than 5 years and she is self-supporting.*
> 
> Your stbx has offered 50/50 custody. If you now come in with guns basing trying to get more than 50% I think you are going to look bad to the court and she is going to look like the reasonable party.
> 
> The fact that the evidence you have that she coached your child to lie was gathered in violation of an existing RO. The very fact that you had a PI following her around after the divorce and RO will not look good for you.
> 
> Your wife did not w/h the children from you. It was still her time based on your verbal agreement with her. Plus you have no official agreement so there was nothing for her to violate.
> From what I have seen in custody fights, the courts could care less if she came home a day or two earlier and did not tell you. They could care less if she coaches your child to lie about where they were that day. The courts are full of custody cases with real abuse, real problems. They do not exists to micro referee your joint parenting.
> 
> When my son’s father and I divorced. I offered 50/50 custody. He fought it, trying for full custody, with all sorts of lies and drummed up stuff. The court ordered a custody evaluation because of this. In the end, after we both spent thousands that never needed to be spent, the court gave him less time than what I had originally offered. Why did he put up this fight? Because he lawyers egged him on.
> 
> Often what is viewed as a shark of a lawyers is really one that stirs the pot and promises their client all kinds of things. They up cause the divorce to get very contentious. The only person who wins in a contentious divorce is your lawyer.
> 
> IT’s going to be interesting to see if all this drama you are putting yourself through is going to pan out to anything except a colossal money sink.


I appreciate your advice and I do see your point. I don't necessarily want to go down this path, but this is where she is going.

As far as the permanent spousal support, I am very much on the hook for that as of right now. My attorney said that she has seen cases where the marriage only lasted 2 years and the husband got stuck with permanent support. The difference in our income is the sticking point. I make significantly more than her, so the state will allow her to maintain the lifestyle to which she has been accustomed.

I understand that at the end of the day we are going to be divorced, the assets divided equally, and the custody pretty much 50/50. I know the courts could't care less about he petty details of the case. But I also have a backbone and will not take her accusations by just rolling over. I don't want revenge on her, I just want her to be held accountable for what she's done and for the truth to be heard. Right now she has made me look like a terrible person while she lives in fantasyland. I don't deserve that, and I am just trying to do my part to clear my name and hold her feet to the fire.


----------



## dadof2

6301 said:


> What I don't understand is if she has a RO against you, then how do you pick up your kids and shouldn't the RO include any type of communication?


We pretty much do all child swaps at daycare. The kids are in summer camp 3 days a week and we alternate days to pick them up and drop them off. We don't have to see each other with this schedule. I actually offered it. She wanted to keep them all week and let me have them on the weekends, but I was able to get some flexibility at work in order to keep the custody as close to 50/50 as possible.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> As far as the permanent spousal support, I am very much on the hook for that as of right now. My attorney said that she has seen cases where the marriage only lasted 2 years and the husband got stuck with permanent support. The difference in our income is the sticking point. I make significantly more than her, so the state will allow her to maintain the lifestyle to which she has been accustomed.


This notion enrages me well past the point of logical reasoning. Seriously, I need to get up and walk around the block or something.


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> I appreciate your advice and I do see your point. I don't necessarily want to go down this path, but this is where she is going.
> 
> As far as the permanent spousal support, I am very much on the hook for that as of right now. My attorney said that she has seen cases where the marriage only lasted 2 years and the husband got stuck with permanent support. The difference in our income is the sticking point. I make significantly more than her, so the state will allow her to maintain the lifestyle to which she has been accustomed.
> 
> I understand that at the end of the day we are going to be divorced, the assets divided equally, and the custody pretty much 50/50. I know the courts could't care less about he petty details of the case. But I also have a backbone and will not take her accusations by just rolling over. I don't want revenge on her, I just want her to be held accountable for what she's done and for the truth to be heard. Right now she has made me look like a terrible person while she lives in fantasyland. I don't deserve that, and I am just trying to do my part to clear my name and hold her feet to the fire.


You can argue against the RO. The best evidence against it is that she never, during your marriage, called the police because there was never a problem. 

I get that you want it removed. But providing evidence gathered by a PI is only evidence that you were using someone else to stalk her. She has filed for divorce. Nothing she does now is any of your business. (as long as she is not abusing the children)

I don't believe your attorney that you can get stuck with permanent alimony. Most if not all states no longer follow that model. Since you have not shared what state you live in there is no way to look at previous cases. This may have been the case years ago, but not now. This sounds more like your attorney stirring the pot.

And even if permanent alimony were on the table, you have no proof of adultery. It's very possible that there was no adultery committed (according the how the law defines adultery) before she filed for divorce.


----------



## EleGirl

Is Permanent Alimony a Thing of the Past?






.


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> This notion enrages me well past the point of *logical reasoning*. Seriously, I need to get up and walk around the block or something.


During this process I have nearly given up on that concept. Between STBX's reasons for leaving and the court system that allows her to be rewarded for it, I am convinced that logical reason may no longer exist...


----------



## SF-FAN

EleGirl said:


> You can argue against the RO. The best evidence against it is that she never, during your marriage, called the police because there was never a problem.
> 
> I get that you want it removed. But providing evidence gathered by a PI is only evidence that you were using someone else to stalk her. She has filed for divorce. Nothing she does now is any of your business. (*as long as she is not abusing the children*)
> 
> I don't believe your attorney that you can get stuck with permanent alimony. Most if not all states no longer follow that model. Since you have not shared what state you live in there is no way to look at previous cases. This may have been the case years ago, but not now. This sounds more like your attorney stirring the pot.
> 
> And even if permanent alimony were on the table, you have no proof of adultery. It's very possible that there was no adultery committed (according the how the law defines adultery) before she filed for divorce.


Coaching your kids to lie can be a form of mental abuse. I completely understand your point and you do offer a very reasonable and real outlook, however, as a BH myself that the WW lied about and attempted to make me look like a monster and horrible person to get out of the marriage and to justify her cheating, it is important to try to clear your name and at least come out looking like you did nothing wrong. As such, I agree with what OP is doing. The D is a done deal but why not try to clear his name and bring to light the "REAL" story and the "REAL" reason his family was blown up.


----------



## Chaparral

Suggesting a PI is a stalker seems rather bizarre. If that were true, being a PI would be illegal. I see no reason not to investigate her behavior.

I also do not understand not being able to subpoena her texts, phone records etc. There are commercials for attorneys that say that's the first thing they do.

Go to dadsdivorce.com for a little help there too.


----------



## SF-FAN

dadof2 said:


> During this process I have nearly given up on that concept. Between STBX's reasons for leaving and the court system that allows her to be rewarded for it, I am convinced that logical reason may no longer exist...


At the risk of sounding sexist, that's why some women cheat. There is no real consequence.


----------



## EleGirl

SF-FAN said:


> Coaching your kids to lie can be a form of mental abuse.


I agree that it's a very bad thing. My point is that when compared to the other things going in the more extreme cases in family court it's not going to get much attention. 



SF-FAN said:


> I completely understand your point and you do offer a very reasonable and real outlook, however, as a BH myself that the WW lied about and attempted to make me look like a monster and horrible person to get out of the marriage and to justify her cheating, it is important to try to clear your name and at least come out looking like you did nothing wrong. As such, I agree with what OP is doing. The D is a done deal but why not try to clear his name and bring to light the "REAL" story and the "REAL" reason his family was blown up.


I agree that he needed to fight the RO. Since there is no record of any kind of abuse it should not be hard to fight on that basis alone.


----------



## bandit.45

Do what you have to to get the best deal at the end of the day. Save the revenge for after the D. She's months ahead of you in planning all this out. She is scum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

SF-FAN said:


> At the risk of sounding sexist, that's why some women cheat. There is no real consequence.


There is on real consequence when men cheat either.


----------



## bandit.45

EleGirl said:


> There is on real consequence when men cheat either.


I disagree. Fathers get hosed I court wether they cheat or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

EleGirl said:


> There is on real consequence when men cheat either.





bandit.45 said:


> I disagree. Fathers get hosed I court wether they cheat or not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Most times (not all) there is a double standard and it's evident. Men often times come out very crippled from a D whether they were the cheaters or not.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> I disagree. Fathers get hosed I court wether they cheat or not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree:Unfortunately most of the time this is the case.


----------



## Ripper

dadof2 said:


> During this process I have nearly given up on that concept. Between STBX's reasons for leaving and the court system that allows her to be rewarded for it, I am convinced that logical reason may no longer exist...


This is the reason the rate of marriage is dropping like a stone. Given the current political and legal environment, there no *logical* reason to do it.


----------



## EleGirl

Ripper said:


> This is the reason the rate of marriage is dropping like a stone. Given the current political and legal environment, there no *logical* reason to do it.


If there are children involved, marriage does not matter. The non-custodial parent will pay child support whether they were ever married or not.


----------



## Ripper

EleGirl said:


> If there are children involved, marriage does not matter. The non-custodial parent will pay child support whether they were ever married or not.


Part of my point. Someone usually ends up paying child support either way. Whats the incentive to risk half your assets and spousal support on top of that.


----------



## Squeakr

EleGirl said:


> If there are children involved, marriage does not matter. The non-custodial parent will pay child support whether they were ever married or not.


Yes, but there would not be spousal support and that is the point of interest in this discussion. He has no issue with CS, it is the lifetime spousal support. She had the A (PA or EA, still an A), left the M, and now is rewarded for that behavior. So no fair.ness there.


----------



## PBear

Chaparral said:


> Suggesting a PI is a stalker seems rather bizarre. If that were true, being a PI would be illegal. I see no reason not to investigate her behavior.
> 
> I also do not understand not being able to subpoena her texts, phone records etc. There are commercials for attorneys that say that's the first thing they do.
> 
> Go to dadsdivorce.com for a little help there too.


The PI wouldn't be considered a stalker. But the person HIRING a PI might be. Which is why his restraining order covered "third parties acting on his behalf", or whatever the wording was. That would also include having a friend follow her. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

Given the current state of marriage in the US (hell, maybe the world), I think that my #1 piece of advice to any young person entering or looking to enter into marriage would be...

Pre-nup.


----------



## EleGirl

Squeakr said:


> Yes, but there would not be spousal support and that is the point of interest in this discussion. He has no issue with CS, it is the lifetime spousal support. She had the A (PA or EA, still an A), left the M, and now is rewarded for that behavior. So no fair.ness there.


A women who earns more than her husband will be ordered to pay him child support and spousal support. This is happening more often these days since now women earn as much or more than their husbands in about half the marriages.

It goes both ways.

If a person does not want to be held responsible for the financial support of their spouse/ex-spouse then don't marry someone who cannot earn an equivalent living.

Make a person dependent on you, you should not be surprised if they are dependent on you.


----------



## just got it 55

EleGirl said:


> If there are children involved, marriage does not matter. The non-custodial parent will pay child support whether they were ever married or not.


EG it's not JUST the money

55


----------



## EleGirl

Squeakr said:


> Yes, but there would not be spousal support and that is the point of interest in this discussion. He has no issue with CS, it is the lifetime spousal support. She had the A (PA or EA, still an A), left the M, and now is rewarded for that behavior. So no fair.ness there.


She's not going to get lifetime spousal support. There is no way.


----------



## EleGirl

just got it 55 said:


> EG it's not JUST the money
> 
> 55


huh :scratchhead:

That's what people are talking about here.. the money.


----------



## Lila

dadof2, your story is one of deep hurt and one that I have followed in the hopes that something good and positive comes out of it. Sadly, you are spending time and money trying to seek revenge on your STBX. And yes, based on your conversation with your new lawyer, it is revenge.



dadof2 said:


> I stressed to my attorney how betrayed I feel and how hurt I have been over the last 6 weeks while STBX is feeling no pain and is living her great new fantasy life with OM. *I told her I want to make STBX hurt.*


I worry that you are letting the hurt and anger from her rejection cloud your better judgement. By your own words, you already know the expected outcome, regardless of whether you collect more information on her alleged affair or not.



dadof2 said:


> I understand that at the end of the day we are going to be divorced, the assets divided equally, and the custody pretty much 50/50. I know the courts could't care less about he petty details of the case.


You've already told her parents about the affair, no?, and they have since distanced themselves from you. Additional information you provide them is not going to change their minds. Blood is thicker than water. Your information gathering tactics might actually serve to alienate them even further. I'm sure they don't want to hear that you hired a PI to spy on their daughter, especially when there's no purpose to it. She's separated from you and the stalking is plain creepy.

You said, 


dadof2 said:


> ..she has shown a consistent lack of respect for me and an overall attitude of not caring about anything but herself.


But the truth is she cares about everything BUT you and this is what has you most upset. 



dadof2 said:


> ...*I don't necessarily want to go down this path, but this is where she is going*.


She is NOT setting up your path, you are. She has no control over the path you travel today. This is where you need to show leadership and set your own path, and stop making decisions for retaliation purposes...for your mental well-being and your children's well-being.


----------



## Squeakr

EleGirl said:


> A women who earns more than her husband will be ordered to pay him child support and spousal support. This is happening more often these days since now women earn as much or more than their husbands in about half the marriages.
> 
> It goes both ways.
> 
> If a person does not want to be held responsible for the financial support of their spouse/ex-spouse then don't marry someone who cannot earn an equivalent living.
> 
> Make a person dependent on you, you should not be surprised if they are dependent on you.


:iagree: and this is why the comment was about the marriage rate dropping, because of the spousal support. No one ever stated that it doesn't go both ways, it just seems that the system is broken when it comes to figuring it out,

Also it doesn't seem to matter the earning potential as much as it does the current earning wage. In a perfect world earning potential would be taken into account but that is not the case in reality. Being a teacher she has a potential to earn 6 figures, but that won't be figured into the D, only the current earnings (and it seems that the only time that potential is taken into account is when one of the spouses loses a job and then they look at past earnings and future potential, otherwise it is ignored).


----------



## GusPolinski

EleGirl said:


> huh :scratchhead:
> 
> That's what people are talking about here.. the money.


It's not _just_ the money... It's the fact that *any* support -- _let alone permanent support_ -- that OP is ordered to pay to his WW basically amounts to him paying for OM's "sexytime" privileges. It's the notion that, given a work week that consists of X hours (whatever that X amount happens to be i.e. 40, 50, 60, whatever), OP will be spending a significant fraction of that time each week earning money that will inevitably go toward supporting a wife that he no longer has. Basically, OM gets all of the perks of having a wife w/o having to pay for them -- that falls to OP. 

Oh, and every moment that OM gets to spend w/ OP's kids is a moment that OP doesn't get to spend w/ them. This is absolute, complete, and total *BULLSH*T* of the highest order.

And OK, turn the tables. Given a similar set of circumstances, I'd be just as appalled at the prospect of a BW having to pay any sort of support to her WH.


----------



## Squeakr

Hiring a PI is not stalking, it is surveillance. As long as the PI keeps their distance and doesn't break the RO guidelines (distance, contact, etc), to have them gathering evidence from afar has nothing wrong with it IMHO.

Insurance companies, businesses, even the police do it. If she is doing nothing wrong, then what is the big deal? She feels it is a violation of her privacy because she knows she is doing things she shouldn't be. I also wonder if "third parties hired" wording is standard fare in RO's as it sounds like she is being just as vindictive and nasty in this (and more so as she is starting it). 

As for revealing to her Parent's, I agree in doing such as they need to know the truth. He couldn't care less whether they think less of him for this action but would like to have them know the truth about him. How is him revealing the truth to them any more wrong than the lying she has done to them regarding him??

He is the father of their grandchildren and deserves some honor and respect as such, but the stories and lies she has spread are keeping them from having the true information to be able to treat him fairly. Blood is thicker than water, and he realizes that they are always going to support her, but they don't need to do it at his expense (like they more than likely are doing now due to her lies).


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

Lila said:


> dadof2, your story is one of deep hurt and one that I have followed in the hopes that something good and positive comes out of it. Sadly, you are spending time and money trying to seek revenge on your STBX. And yes, based on your conversation with your new lawyer, it is revenge.
> 
> 
> 
> I worry that you are letting the hurt and anger from her rejection cloud your better judgement. By your own words, you already know the expected outcome, regardless of whether you collect more information on her alleged affair or not.
> 
> 
> 
> You've already told her parents about the affair, no?, and they have since distanced themselves from you. Additional information you provide them is not going to change their minds. Blood is thicker than water. Your information gathering tactics might actually serve to alienate them even further. I'm sure they don't want to hear that you hired a PI to spy on their daughter, especially when there's no purpose to it. She's separated from you and the stalking is plain creepy.
> 
> You said,
> 
> 
> But the truth is she cares about everything BUT you and this is what has you most upset.
> 
> 
> 
> She is NOT setting up your path, you are. She has no control over the path you travel today. This is where you need to show leadership and set your own path, and stop making decisions for retaliation purposes...for your mental well-being and your children's well-being.


Best post so far...

I don't know all the details, but what does her filing for divorce say? If you have a good idea that she's likely okay with 50/50 custody, then unless she's asking for spousal support I think I'd be inclined 2 do whatever you could 2 finalize the divorce as quickly as possible.

In the long haul, you're going 2 need 2 coparent those kids with her. So why not do what you can 2 pinch this marriage off as cleanly and quickly as possible without seeking revenge?

All 2 often, I think BSs are motivated by the desire 2 have the Big Question, "Why?" answered. The truth is that you may never get an answer. Regardless, you'll be in a lot better shape emotionally if you can get 2 that state of indifference about her sooner rather than later.

Emotions are highly charged in cases of infidelity. That's understandable, certainly. But as a result, most BSs assign malice 2 their WS' behavior when, quite often, simple s2pidity should provide sufficient explanation for it.

-ol' 2long


----------



## EleGirl

GusPolinski said:


> It's not _just_ the money... It's the fact that *any* support -- _let alone permanent support_ -- that OP is ordered to pay to his WW basically amounts to him paying for OM's "sexytime" privileges. It's the notion that, given a work week that consists of X hours (whatever that X amount happens to be i.e. 40, 50, 60, whatever), OP will be spending a significant fraction of that time each week earning money that will inevitably go toward supporting a wife that he no longer has. Basically, OM gets all of the perks of having a wife w/o having to pay for them -- that falls to OP.
> 
> Oh, and every moment that OM gets to spend w/ OP's kids is a moment that OP doesn't get to spend w/ them. This is absolute, complete, and total *BULLSH*T* of the highest order.
> 
> And OK, turn the tables. Given a similar set of circumstances, I'd be just as appalled at the prospect of a BW having to pay any sort of support to her WH.


I get all that. Yes it sucks. 

But Do2 has to deal with reality as it exits today in his life. 

My ex walked away with an MD that I paid for, over $100,000 of my money that he moved over to his mother's name. Half of all our other assets that were all earned by me. The cash outlay on my part was thousands, probably tens of thousands more than Do2 will ever pay in this divorce. On top of that he was a serial cheater who I supported for most of our marriage.

I get it's not fair. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.

But sometimes, when we know that there is no way to change the situation, the best we can do is to get out as quickly as possible and to not let lawyers work us into a state that only lines their pockets.

The best revenge Bo2 can have is to go on and live a good life.

Believe me my ex was sure that I would crash and burn without his cheating, lying, thieving arse. Well I guess he was wrong. He's even made a few comments over the years showing how disappointed he is that I've done much better without him.


----------



## PBear

Hiring a PI is not stalking or illegal. Hiring a PI when you have an RO on you may be violating the RO. I haven't seen the terms of his particular RO. 

The validity of the RO is a completely separate issue. If the RO isn't valid, he needs to focus on getting it removed. But in the meantime, hiring a PI may simply prove the RO was justified, if he uses any of that information to blackmail her into dropping her support claim. 

But I'm sure his lawyer is taking all that into account...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Racer

I'd think it'd be easy to remove the RO, particularly since adultery does change the divorce and this RO changes his ability to prove guilt. In other words, the 3rd party clause is illegal.

Or, his attorney might use it against his WW. Based on the evidence prior to RO signed by a judge and served, it plays against the probability of adultery and should be taken into account that he can't, by court order, use a PI to further investigate and prove adultery that is likely there. 

Subpoena phone records, IM's, email, etc. of both the OM and WW to further make adultery a probability. Depositions will also be nasty. Thing with civil court versus criminal court, they get to play with probable versus "beyond a shadow of a doubt".

Also remember the judge is human and wants the case to end fast. So dump the facts on him/her that look compelling.

But the others are right.... Legal fee's might not be 'worth' it just to prove this, nor may it even make a difference in the settlement.


----------



## GusPolinski

EleGirl said:


> I get all that. Yes it sucks.
> 
> But Do2 has to deal with reality as it exits today in his life.
> 
> My ex walked away with an MD that I paid for, over $100,000 of my money that he moved over to his mother's name. Half of all our other assets that were all earned by me. The cash outlay on my part and thousands, probably tens of thousands more than Do2 will ever pay in this divorce. On top of that he was a serial cheater who I supported for most of our marriage.
> 
> I get it's not fair. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.
> 
> But sometimes, when we know that that there is no way to change the situation, the best we can do is to get out as quickly as possible and to not let lawyers work us into a state that only lines their pockets.
> 
> The best revenge Bo2 can have is to go on and live a good life.
> 
> Believe me my ex was sure that I would crash and burn without his cheating, lying, thieving arse. Well I guess he was wrong. He's even made a few comments over the years showing how disappointed he is that I've done much better without him.


Wow. What a d**chebag.


----------



## just got it 55

EleGirl said:


> huh :scratchhead:
> 
> That's what people are talking about here.. the money.


Well EG I am talking about not living with your children any more:scratchhead:

As a man I hear far too many court horror stories

99 out of 100 times she gets the house and kids and he gets

OUT

no matter what the circumstance 

so as I said not just the money


Clear enough for you ?

55


----------



## Chaparral

PBear said:


> Hiring a PI is not stalking or illegal. Hiring a PI when you have an RO on you may be violating the RO. I haven't seen the terms of his particular RO.
> 
> The validity of the RO is a completely separate issue. If the RO isn't valid, he needs to focus on getting it removed. But in the meantime, hiring a PI may simply prove the RO was justified, if he uses any of that information to blackmail her into dropping her support claim.
> 
> But I'm sure his lawyer is taking all that into account...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now we are up to telling the truth is blackmail? OMG:rofl:


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> Now we are up to telling the truth is blackmail? OMG:rofl:


Pretty f^king sad isn't it.
Kind of like what Mike North said (was a radio gut here) it's the p^ssification of America.
Oye vey.


----------



## EleGirl

Chaparral said:


> Now we are up to telling the truth is blackmail? OMG:rofl:


Blackmail usually does involve the threat of telling the truth to smear a person's name or to get them in trouble legally if they don't' give the blackmailer what is asked in exchange.

The fine line in Do2's case here is whether the court would look at it as negotiation or blackmail.

I assume his attorney knows how to walk that fine line.


----------



## PreRaphaelite

EleGirl said:


> I get all that. Yes it sucks.
> 
> But Do2 has to deal with reality as it exits today in his life.
> 
> My ex walked away with an MD that I paid for, over $100,000 of my money that he moved over to his mother's name. Half of all our other assets that were all earned by me. The cash outlay on my part and thousands, probably tens of thousands more than Do2 will ever pay in this divorce. On top of that he was a serial cheater who I supported for most of our marriage.
> 
> I get it's not fair. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.
> 
> But sometimes, when we know that that there is no way to change the situation, the best we can do is to get out as quickly as possible and to not let lawyers work us into a state that only lines their pockets.
> 
> The best revenge Bo2 can have is to go on and live a good life.
> 
> Believe me my ex was sure that I would crash and burn without his cheating, lying, thieving arse. Well I guess he was wrong. He's even made a few comments over the years showing how disappointed he is that I've done much better without him.



I never heard your story before EleGirl, but that is despicable behavior on the part of your X, and I'm glad to hear how well you have overcome it. Of course, we never completely overcome everything, but there's no reason why we should try to.

OP: to reinforce what EleGirl has said, please find the post put up by Morituri entitled "Just let them go" and read every word. It may be one of the best posts ever made on these forums.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html


----------



## LongWalk

Filing an RO at the beginning is a way to slur the image of the STB dumped father/husband. Women are biologically programmed to feel that the bond of the child is stronger with them than anyone else. Once they decide to ditch a man, they may experience cognitive dissonance and wish to have reason to vilify him. Sometimes slanderous lying doesn't feel out of place.

On an instinctual level the BH represents a potential violent threat to the new mate. She is using social forces to marginalize OP.

OP is considering using public opinion to fight back. But he is moving at the lawyer's pace.

If he were to post OM on Cheaterville, what could his wife do with the information?


----------



## justastatistic

dadof2 said:


> But I also have a backbone and will not take her accusations by just rolling over. I don't want revenge on her, I just want her to be held accountable for what she's done and for the truth to be heard.


Sorry, but I think if you were to be honest, a little revenge is exactly what you are looking for. I understand that of course, she has hurt you terribly and as a result of her actions you won't get to see your children every day. But you're not going to be happy in the end with the course you are charting here.

I want to preface my comments by stating that I am a lawyer in a State next to your's, with very similar divorce laws. ( I seem to recall you were in NY.) While I don't practice family law usually, I have seen the devastation visited upon those who tell their "shark" attorney they want to fight for their rights. Those kinds of statements are like chum in the water for divorce attorneys.

For example, I recently saw a case where the stbxw took the kids and left for another man (as is typically the case, an old flame she re-connected with on Facebook or, as I like to call it, The Marriage Killer.) They then went to legal war over each other's pre-owned assets as well as the assets acquired during the marriage. After many many days of trial, the end result was that each kept their pre-owned assets and they split the rest because, well let's face it, that's the LAW. Of course they each got something else too....approximately $200k in legal fees, each. Those fees far exceeded the amount they were fighting over.

The reality is, divorce laws are fairly straightforward and set in stone. Marriage is a partnership in the eyes of the law, and it is dissolved in accordance with partnership principles. If you think you are going to be the one who changes that because you have a shark for an attorney, you are going to be extremely disappointed. And if you think you will get some justice through either your PI or depositions of your stbx and her AP, then let me tell you a little secret. People LIE in depositions. Even if they are having sex, they will likely lie about it, and all the PI evidence you have gathered so far is merely confirmation of a post-filing friendship. The harsh reality is that now that she has filed, she is going to pursue relationships with other men, she's going to have sex with them, and no judge is going to care. Maybe she did that pre-filing as well, maybe she didn't. Again, no one is going to care.

Do yourself a favor. Have a very serious talk with your attorney about what would be a reasonable settlement. She's offering 50/50 custody, which is the most important thing and the best possible outcome as far as your children are concerned. If you let a court make the custody decision, you're going to end up with every other weekend and one night for dinner during the week. How's that sound as far as maintaining a close, loving relationship with your kids?

Forget about making her/them pay for lying, you're not going to get that. The RO will probably be dismissed at the first hearing since there were no grounds stated to support it. The Courts may sign RO's initially without evidence, but they rarely confirm them at the hearing and they are usually dismissed.

Give your stbx her freedom and get the best deal you can for custody and financial settlement. Insist on a statement in the property settlement agreement that if or when she lives with another man, your spousal support obligation is terminated. That is customary and reasonable. 

Stop worrying about your stbx and AP's relationship. They may end up getting married and living happily ever after, or they may implode spectacularly. In the end it doesn't matter. You know she's a cheater and has decided not to love you any more. What difference does the rest of it make? If they end up together, he gets a cheater and she gets a man who will seduce a married woman. They deserve each other. 

You thought you chose someone to love who shared your commitment and values. You were wrong. It says nothing about you (except maybe that when you're in love you refuse to see the warts) and everything about her.

Dedicate yourself to moving on and being happy, being the best Dad you can be, and (here's the hard part) helping your stbx be the best mother she can be. In the end your children will love you for it, and you'll love yourself for it. Now lean back, close your eyes, and picture this....

You're sitting on your couch, enjoying a little peace and quiet. Suddenly, an 18 month old little boy runs into the room, naked, giggling and dripping wet, followed closely by a beautiful woman in a t-shirt and tight white shorts carrying a towel and saying "c'mere you little ******." As she bends over to scoop him up in the towel and plant kisses all over his face, you admire those shorts and the amazing woman who fills them so perfectly. She turns to you and says "I'm going to put this little gremlin down for a nap. Then how about you and me have ourselves a little "nap time" too?" And for the first time in months you think back to your xWW, only this time your thoughts aren't "How could she do that to me," they are "Thank god that ***** left."

Accept life as it is, not how you wish it to be, and look toward better times in the future.


----------



## happyman64

justastatistic said:


> Sorry, but I think if you were to be honest, a little revenge is exactly what you are looking for. I understand that of course, she has hurt you terribly and as a result of her actions you won't get to see your children every day. But you're not going to be happy in the end with the course you are charting here.
> 
> I want to preface my comments by stating that I am a lawyer in a State next to your's, with very similar divorce laws. ( I seem to recall you were in NY.) While I don't practice family law usually, I have seen the devastation visited upon those who tell their "shark" attorney they want to fight for their rights. Those kinds of statements are like chum in the water for divorce attorneys.
> 
> For example, I recently saw a case where the stbxw took the kids and left for another man (as is typically the case, an old flame she re-connected with on Facebook or, as I like to call it, The Marriage Killer.) They then went to legal war over each other's pre-owned assets as well as the assets acquired during the marriage. After many many days of trial, the end result was that each kept their pre-owned assets and they split the rest because, well let's face it, that's the LAW. Of course they each got something else too....approximately $200k in legal fees, each. Those fees far exceeded the amount they were fighting over.
> 
> The reality is, divorce laws are fairly straightforward and set in stone. Marriage is a partnership in the eyes of the law, and it is dissolved in accordance with partnership principles. If you think you are going to be the one who changes that because you have a shark for an attorney, you are going to be extremely disappointed. And if you think you will get some justice through either your PI or depositions of your stbx and her AP, then let me tell you a little secret. People LIE in depositions. Even if they are having sex, they will likely lie about it, and all the PI evidence you have gathered so far is merely confirmation of a post-filing friendship. The harsh reality is that now that she has filed, she is going to pursue relationships with other men, she's going to have sex with them, and no judge is going to care. Maybe she did that pre-filing as well, maybe she didn't. Again, no one is going to care.
> 
> Do yourself a favor. Have a very serious talk with your attorney about what would be a reasonable settlement. She's offering 50/50 custody, which is the most important thing and the best possible outcome as far as your children are concerned. If you let a court make the custody decision, you're going to end up with every other weekend and one night for dinner during the week. How's that sound as far as maintaining a close, loving relationship with your kids?
> 
> Forget about making her/them pay for lying, you're not going to get that. The RO will probably be dismissed at the first hearing since there were no grounds stated to support it. The Courts may sign RO's initially without evidence, but they rarely confirm them at the hearing and they are usually dismissed.
> 
> Give your stbx her freedom and get the best deal you can for custody and financial settlement. Insist on a statement in the property settlement agreement that if or when she lives with another man, your spousal support obligation is terminated. That is customary and reasonable.
> 
> Stop worrying about your stbx and AP's relationship. They may end up getting married and living happily ever after, or they may implode spectacularly. In the end it doesn't matter. You know she's a cheater and has decided not to love you any more. What difference does the rest of it make? If they end up together, he gets a cheater and she gets a man who will seduce a married woman. They deserve each other.
> 
> You thought you chose someone to love who shared your commitment and values. You were wrong. It says nothing about you (except maybe that when you're in love you refuse to see the warts) and everything about her.
> 
> Dedicate yourself to moving on and being happy, being the best Dad you can be, and (here's the hard part) helping your stbx be the best mother she can be. In the end your children will love you for it, and you'll love yourself for it. Now lean back, close your eyes, and picture this....
> 
> You're sitting on your couch, enjoying a little peace and quiet. Suddenly, an 18 month old little boy runs into the room, naked, giggling and dripping wet, followed closely by a beautiful woman in a t-shirt and tight white shorts carrying a towel and saying "c'mere you little ******." As she bends over to scoop him up in the towel and plant kisses all over his face, you admire those shorts and the amazing woman who fills them so perfectly. She turns to you and says "I'm going to put this little gremlin down for a nap. Then how about you and me have ourselves a little "nap time" too?" And for the first time in months you think back to your xWW, only this time your thoughts aren't "How could she do that to me," they are "Thank god that ***** left."
> 
> Accept life as it is, not how you wish it to be, and look toward better times in the future.


Wise words. From an attorney. Miracles never cease to amaze me.

Thankyou justastatistic for restoring my faith in the thought that there are no decent attorneys out there in the world. It is good to know there are some decent attorneys out there and they are willing to sprinkle common sense in with their advice.

HM


----------



## justastatistic

happyman64 said:


> Wise words. From an attorney. Miracles never cease to amaze me.
> 
> Thankyou justastatistic for restoring my faith in the thought that there are no decent attorneys out there in the world.
> 
> HM


LOL I think you just complimented me, then immediately dissed me.


----------



## PBear

EleGirl said:


> Blackmail usually does involve the threat of telling the truth to smear a person's name or to get them in trouble legally if they don't' give the blackmailer what is asked in exchange.


Exactly. 

Let's say an employee finds out their company is doing something illegal. The employee is innocent and blameless in this. They could chose to expose the truth, and nobody would blame them for that. But if they went to the company and said "give me a promotion and a 100k a year raise or I'll expose", that's blackmail. Even if they're only talking about exposing the truth. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

justastatistic said:


> LOL I think you just complimented me, then immediately dissed me.


Only compliments intended. Thank you again.

I am not a fan of attorneys. They have cost me millions in business with their bad and sometimes misguided advice.

You have restored my faith. A little.


----------



## SF-FAN

happyman64 said:


> Wise words. From an attorney. Miracles never cease to amaze me.
> 
> Thankyou justastatistic for restoring my faith in the thought that there are no decent attorneys out there in the world. It is good to know there are some decent attorneys out there and they are willing to sprinkle common sense in with their advice.
> 
> HM


I'm in law school as well, albeit I still have a ways to go before I can practice law, and I find justastatistic's post well thought out and probably some of the best advice I've seen on this website, however, when you are the BS, it is almost impossible to think rationally.

Getting your heart ripped out and your "family life" taken from you, and then see the person that is responsible, without a care in the world, is completely disheartening and devastating. A pain that there is no cure for - so as a BS myself, you grab at any possibility of making the WS feel like you do. It's a reflex, a human instinct. You hurt me, I'm going to hurt you.

As an aspiring attorney, the judicial system really disappoints me when it comes to fairness in divorce. In any other branch of the law, usually, a person that commits a tortuous act gets punished but not in a marriage? When two people get married, they enter into a "contract" so if one of those people breach the contract, they should suffer consequences, not get rewarded.


----------



## happyman64

I agree with you SF.

But law treats marriage like any other business or partnership.

That is why I believe in God and Karma to deliver the appropriate revenge to a wayward spouse.

But it sure helps to plan on living a better life without that wayward spouse in your life if you choose that route or it is the only route you can take.

And if you can send a little karma towards the wayward then by all means do so.

As long as it does not cost you a fortune to do so, puts you in jail or costs you money down the road because of spousal support.

I do hear you SF.


----------



## justastatistic

I agree wholeheartedly SF-Fan and HM, it's unfair that a BS has to support a WS after divorce. While I understand the rationale behind the equitable distribution laws, that doesn't make it any less ****ty when some poor spouse has to pay lifetime alimony. 

Fortunately, there has been some progress made in changing alimony laws to eliminate lifetime spousal support and award only temporary support. Let's hope that train keeps rolling.


----------



## SF-FAN

justastatistic said:


> I agree wholeheartedly SF-Fan and HM, it's unfair that a BS has to support a WS after divorce. While I understand the rationale behind the equitable distribution laws, that doesn't make it any less ****ty when some poor spouse has to pay lifetime alimony.
> 
> Fortunately, there has been some progress made in changing alimony laws to eliminate lifetime spousal support and award only temporary support. Let's hope that train keeps rolling.


Exactly! In a "business partnership" if one of the partners does some shady dealing behind the other partner's back and it goes to court, more often than not, judgment goes to the partner that was betrayed. If marriage is treated like a partnership, then it should have the same consequences and stipulations.


----------



## clipclop2

Marital contacts can be drawn up but generally aren't. Actual business business partnerships offer much more protection if planned out well.

People don't want to jinx their marriage by adding prenuptials. I think we could make a good argument that not having one is the jinx.


----------



## LongWalk

HM was so shocked that he formulated the sentence of praise awkwardly. But we know that he meant that you are a dolphin among the sharks. My daughter has applied to law school.

I have good friend who is an attorney. Times are much harder now, according to him.

Re: no fault divorce/adultery
Nobody cares much but those in pain.

Justastatistic what do think of Cheaterville?

The cleverest way to have marriage contract with the force of law is to create a partnership that has penalties for sexual relations with someone not a shareholder in the company. If such a contract ended up court a judge might insist that it be covered by family law. Would be interesting to know of anyone has done it.

You would have to skip any legally binding marriage ceremony.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## justastatistic

As far as cheaterville goes, I posted my ww's AP on there. I doubt it does much although I fantasize about every woman he ever has a relationship with seeing it and dumping him. It gave me some very small measure of satisfaction though. I know people worry about being subject to claims by the AP for posting them there, but truth is an absolute defense to libel or slander claims. 

What gave me even more satisfaction was hearing he quit his job and moved out of state. This was shortly after I went to the bar where he hung out and drove through the parking lot a couple of times. He must have seen me, because his friend came out and went to the AP's car to get something, but watched me in my car the whole time. So I turned on my interior light and made a big show of checking the gun I had with me. Now that was stupid I know, but in my defense the gun was old, rusted, would probably blow up in my hand if I tried to fire it, unloaded and I had no bullets to load it.

But boy, do I get a big smile every time I think of how he must have reacted when his friend told him THAT. I'm sure he was worried about what I was going to do to him even before that because I am a rather big (not fat, just big) guy and at the time was bench pressing 300 pounds. People have told me I can be quite intimidating when I want to be, even unarmed.


----------



## justastatistic

Just to clarify, I do not recommend that others repeat my behavior regarding the AP. It was stupid and I was lucky he didn't call the cops.


----------



## tom67

justastatistic said:


> As far as cheaterville goes, I posted my ww's AP on there. I doubt it does much although I fantasize about every woman he ever has a relationship with seeing it and dumping him. It gave me some very small measure of satisfaction though. I know people worry about being subject to claims by the AP for posting them there, but truth is an absolute defense to libel or slander claims.
> 
> What gave me even more satisfaction was hearing he quit his job and moved out of state. This was shortly after I went to the bar where he hung out and drove through the parking lot a couple of times. He must have seen me, because his friend came out and went to the AP's car to get something, but watched me in my car the whole time. So I turned on my interior light and made a big show of checking the gun I had with me. Now that was stupid I know, but in my defense the gun was old, rusted, would probably blow up in my hand if I tried to fire it, unloaded and I had no bullets to load it.
> 
> But boy, do I get a big smile every time I think of how he must have reacted when his friend told him THAT. I'm sure he was worried about what I was going to do to him even before that because I am a rather big (not fat, just big) guy and at the time was bench pressing 300 pounds. People have told me I can be quite intimidating when I want to be, even unarmed.


You made your point without saying a word.
Be thankful a cop wasn't scanning plates that night.


----------



## clipclop2

That rusted gun could have gotten you killed. So not worth it!

Did you post your wife there too?

LW, are there no prenups with penalties for infidelity that are upheld? Does state divorce law supercede the penalty if the offending spouse fights the agreement?

Maybe we should go for a marital escrow account funded before the marriage. Or create that corp prior to the wedding.


----------



## justastatistic

clipclop2 said:


> That rusted gun could have gotten you killed. So not worth it!
> 
> Did you post your wife there too?
> 
> LW, are there no prenups with penalties for infidelity that are upheld? Does state divorce law supercede the penalty if the offending spouse fights the agreement?
> 
> Maybe we should go for a marital escrow account funded before the marriage. Or create that corp prior to the wedding.


Yes, I know. Like I said, not my smartest move, but in my defense I'm not sure I was completely and totally sane at that point. The pain was overwhelming. I couldn't eat, sleep or work, and lost 40 pounds in 6 weeks after discovery.

I didn't post WW on cheaterville, even though I know it was her that betrayed me, and her that owed me loyalty and respect, not the jackass she betrayed me with. I did that because we have children and I don't want to see them suffer any more than they already have. Strangely enough, I don't want her to suffer any more either. There just isn't any point.

It's a strange thing, this thing we call love.


----------



## renascent

justastatistic said:


> I agree wholeheartedly SF-Fan and HM, it's unfair that a BS has to support a WS after divorce. While I understand the rationale behind the equitable distribution laws, that doesn't make it any less ****ty when some poor spouse has to pay lifetime alimony.
> 
> Fortunately, there has been some progress made in changing alimony laws to eliminate lifetime spousal support and award only temporary support. Let's hope that train keeps rolling.


There has been 0 progress made. If anything, it's gotten worse.


----------



## justastatistic

renascent said:


> There has been 0 progress made. If anything, it's gotten worse.


I think that's a matter of opinion. Massachusetts passed alimony reform, and both NJ and Florida are working on it.


----------



## EleGirl

SF-FAN said:


> Exactly! In a "business partnership" if one of the partners does some shady dealing behind the other partner's back and it goes to court, more often than not, judgment goes to the partner that was betrayed. If marriage is treated like a partnership, then it should have the same consequences and stipulations.


Even in the dissolution of a business partnership based on the shady dealings of one partner, the harmed partner has to be able to prove that harm was done. If there is no evidence, there is no case. 

There is another reason that no fault divorce has become the norm, we the people pay for the family court system. When a spouse can use fault as the basis for divorce the divorce ends up costing we the people a LOT. A lot of false accusations are drummed up by one or both spouses that lead to years of cost to the court system.

With the sheer number of divorces file these days, our courts would be so clogged that virtually nothing could get done.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



EleGirl said:


> Even in the dissolution of a business partnership based on the shady dealings of one partner, the harmed partner has to be able to prove that harm was done. If there is no evidence, there is no case.
> 
> There is another reason that no fault divorce has become the norm, we the people pay for the family court system. When a spouse can use fault as the basis for divorce the divorce ends up costing we the people a LOT. A lot of false accusations are drummed up by one or both spouses that lead to years of cost to the court system.
> 
> With the sheer number of divorces file these days, our courts would be so clogged that virtually nothing could get done.


This is why I think capital punishment should be applied to divorce cases. Watch the divorce rate plummet.


----------



## EleGirl

bfree said:


> This is why I think capital punishment should be applied to divorce cases. Watch the divorce rate plummet.


Yea, I say we go back to stoning people. That worked so well. \sarcasm

They cost of evidence gathering for that would consume the resources of most people.

What other offenses that occur in marriage do you suggest that this be the punishment for? After all there are a 1000 ways to leave your lover, and many times that ways to harm them.


----------



## Squeakr

bfree said:


> This is why I think capital punishment should be applied to divorce cases. Watch the divorce rate plummet.


So would they then become missing person or capitol murder cases instead as I don't believe punishment fears would stop infidelity (many countries allow stoning, making, and other worse punishments and infidelity still exists there as well)??


----------



## GusPolinski

LOL. There would likely be a HUGE upsurge of divorce cases, w/ both spouses pointing fingers at the other claiming infidelity.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



Squeakr said:


> So would they then become missing person or capitol murder cases instead as I don't believe punishment fears would stop infidelity (many countries allow stoning, making, and other worse punishments and infidelity still exists there as well)??










EleGirl said:


> Yea, I say we go back to stoning people. That worked so well. \sarcasm
> 
> They cost of evidence gathering for that would consume the resources of most people.
> 
> What other offenses that occur in marriage do you suggest that this be the punishment for? After all there are a 1000 ways to leave your lover, and many times that ways to harm them.


Yeah, maybe we should just institute a one night a year "Purge." Of course in my case I'd probably need a week to get through my list.


----------



## tom67

bfree said:


> This is why I think capital punishment should be applied to divorce cases. Watch the divorce rate plummet.


----------



## GusPolinski

bfree said:


> Yeah, maybe we should just institute a one night a year "Purge." Of course in my case I'd probably need a week to get through my list.


Reminds me of this...

The Lottery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Squeakr

bfree said:


> Yeah, maybe we should just institute a one night a year "Purge." Of course in my case I'd probably need a week to get through my list.


When I saw that movie, I started a thread about what would happen if that was instituted in real life, how would people on here react. I was quite surprised how many said they would take the high road, lots of the same that are here screaming that the POSOM/W deserves their just desserts.


----------



## clipclop2

Most people are dumb. They leave evidence everywhere. You don't need lots of money, just patience to find what you are looking for. The problem is that most people don't want to believe they are being cheated on and by the time they take off the blinders it is more difficult. If people would accept that everyone is capable of cheating and ruling it out early by doing more than wishful thinking based on "they don't have time to cheat" would actually be better for the marriage because if there truly is no cheating which happens once in a blue moon, you can address real issues sooner.

How's that for a run on?


----------



## LongWalk

clipclop2 said:


> That rusted gun could have gotten you killed. So not worth it!
> 
> Did you post your wife there too?
> 
> *LW, are there no prenups with penalties for infidelity that are upheld? Does state divorce law supercede the penalty if the offending spouse fights the agreement?*
> 
> Maybe we should go for a marital escrow account funded before the marriage. Or create that corp prior to the wedding.


ClipClop,

I wasn't thinking in terms of a prenup. I don't know how the law views prenups. Certainly you cannot write anything regarding custody because the legal principle when it comes to children is that their welfare comes first, not the desires of the parents.



> Even though divorce court judges are typically disinterested in most peculiarities of individual contracts, there can be factors that raise eyebrows. For instance, if your prenup states no child support whatsoever will be paid in the event of a divorce, it is likely to be thrown out. Provisions in the prenup about weight gain, hair color, frequency of sexual relations, visits by in-laws — remember, the judges have heard it all — are likely not to hold up in court, either.


 Source Forbes

So, I am thinking to skip legal marriage and simply have a business contract.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> ClipClop,
> 
> I wasn't thinking in terms of a prenup. I don't know how the law views prenups. Certainly you cannot write anything regarding custody because the legal principle when it comes to children is that their welfare comes first, not the desires of the parents.
> 
> Source Forbes
> 
> So, I am thinking to skip legal marriage and simply have a business contract.


LW you know the shysters will never make it that simple just like the tax code.


----------



## EleGirl

LongWalk said:


> ClipClop,
> 
> I wasn't thinking in terms of a prenup. I don't know how the law views prenups. Certainly you cannot write anything regarding custody because the legal principle when it comes to children is that their welfare comes first, not the desires of the parents.
> 
> Source Forbes
> 
> So, I am thinking to skip legal marriage and simply have a business contract.


Marriage is a business contract. We already have that.


----------



## GTdad

EleGirl said:


> Marriage is a business contract. We already have that.


They're typically pretty lousy, as far as contracts go. No penalties for breach, no viable escape clause, duties of each party are left almost completely unclear, etc.


----------



## thatbpguy

GTdad said:


> They're typically pretty lousy, as far as contracts go. No penalties for breach, no viable escape clause, duties of each party are left almost completely unclear, etc.


Makes me a fan of just living together.


----------



## Nucking Futs

thatbpguy said:


> Makes me a fan of just living together.


No good for our Aussie friends.


----------



## OldWolf57

Dad, your family seems to be well connected.
Well from experience I can say, words in the right ear will get the job done quicker concerning the school board. 

You never said, but how connected is her's?


----------



## dadof2

OldWolf57 said:


> Dad, your family seems to be well connected.
> Well from experience I can say, words in the right ear will get the job done quicker concerning the school board.
> 
> You never said, but how connected is her's?


Actually I spoke with my attorney of Friday and she recommended that I do exactly this. Let someone in my family "casually run into" an old family friend that is on the school board.

STBX's family is not from this town so they have no ties here.

I have an unrelated question dealing with Father's Day- I have had the kids all weekend and their mother gets them back tomorrow afternoon. My father in law is a big family man and I assume STBX and my sister in-law and her husband and kids spent the day at Father in laws house. Since STBX moved out, her parents have not spoken to me. I assume they are just following her orders because no doubt she has made me out to be a terrible person all of a sudden. My question is if I should take a short video of the kids saying happy Father's Day and send it to my father in law later this evening. I know he would appreciate it but I also want to make them feel some effects of this divorce. Why should I give him the benefit of a video message while his daughter is secretly screwing some other guy while telling them I am a monster? I guess I just answered my own question, but I wanted to see what y'all thought about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Now is not the time to direct charming family drama movies. They have not reached out to you. Don't expect anything from them.

Put OM on Cheaterville and that link can go to a member of the school board anonymously.


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> Actually I spoke with my attorney of Friday and she recommended that I do exactly this. Let someone in my family "casually run into" an old family friend that is on the school board.
> 
> STBX's family is not from this town so they have no ties here.
> 
> I have an unrelated question dealing with Father's Day- I have had the kids all weekend and their mother gets them back tomorrow afternoon. My father in law is a big family man and I assume STBX and my sister in-law and her husband and kids spent the day at Father in laws house. Since STBX moved out, her parents have not spoken to me. I assume they are just following her orders because no doubt she has made me out to be a terrible person all of a sudden. My question is if I should take a short video of the kids saying happy Father's Day and send it to my father in law later this evening. I know he would appreciate it but I also want to make them feel some effects of this divorce. Why should I give him the benefit of a video message while his daughter is secretly screwing some other guy while telling them I am a monster? I guess I just answered my own question, but I wanted to see what y'all thought about it.


You have no obligation to make sure your kids acknowledge him on father's day.

But if you did this, you would look like the bigger person. Especially after they way her parents are treating you.

If you do it, do not do it because you think it will be a way to hurt them or to get them to see their daughter differently. Do it because you want to teach your children to respect their grand parents.

If you cannot do it simply out of teaching your children to respect and love family, then don't do it at all.


----------



## dadof2

EleGirl said:


> You have no obligation to make sure your kids acknowledge him on father's day.
> 
> But if you did this, you would look like the bigger person. Especially after they way her parents are treating you.
> 
> If you do it, do not do it because you think it will be a way to hurt them or to get them to see their daughter differently. Do it because you want to teach your children to respect their grand parents.
> 
> If you cannot do it simply out of teaching your children to respect and love family, then don't do it at all.


I agree 100% Elegirl. I honestly would be doing it to show her parents that I am being the bigger person. But I don't think that would be the way they would take it so I am not going to do it. Unfortunately the children are young so they don't really have a concept of it being Fathers day and not seeing one of their grandfathers. So it would be from me all the way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

I'd do it.


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> I'd do it.


I made a quick video on my phone of the kids sitting on the couch saying "happy Father's Day I love you" to their grandpa. I haven't sent it yet as I am still contemplating. I doubt they are expecting it but I think it is a nice gesture on my part. But who knows how they will take it, especially since they haven't spoken to me in a month. I will think about it some more and listen to the advice here before I decide to send it or not. In the grand scheme of things I know I don't owe it to him but he also didn't betray me so why should he pay the price. But I also want to make them all feel the consequences of their daughters actions, so that's why I am hesitant to send it.

I know I'm making a big deal over nothing, but it seems like every little detail now can be spun into something bigger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tdwal

Just send it with no expectations. I'm a grandfather and I would appreciate it.


----------



## 3putt

dadof2 said:


> I made a quick video on my phone of the kids sitting on the couch saying "happy Father's Day I love you" to their grandpa. I haven't sent it yet as I am still contemplating. I doubt they are expecting it but I think it is a nice gesture on my part. But who knows how they will take it, especially since they haven't spoken to me in a month. I will think about it some more and listen to the advice here before I decide to send it or not. In the grand scheme of things I know I don't owe it to him but he also didn't betray me so why should he pay the price. But I also want to make them all feel the consequences of their daughters actions, so that's why I am hesitant to send it.
> 
> I know I'm making a big deal over nothing, but it seems like every little detail now can be spun into something bigger.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Look at it this way: Every little good thing you don't do when the opportunity arises will be one more little confirmation that what she's telling them is true.


----------



## GusPolinski

Just send him a text saying something like "The kids were thinking of you today and wanted to say something..." and attach the video to it. I'm sure he'll appreciate the gesture.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## sidney2718

SF-FAN said:


> As an aspiring attorney, the judicial system really disappoints me when it comes to fairness in divorce. In any other branch of the law, usually, a person that commits a tortuous act gets punished but not in a marriage? When two people get married, they enter into a "contract" so if one of those people breach the contract, they should suffer consequences, not get rewarded.


I get what you are saying and the utopian in me agrees fully. But I remember the times prior to no-fault divorce. Couples would argue about the causes of infidelity. She cheated. He beat me. She threw dishes. He insulted me in front of friends. On and on and on with witnesses by the dozen.

The result was that divorce was enormously expensive and many people were denied needed divorces simply because their spouses threatened to litigate. Don't forget that the fees pile up from the start.

The situation we have today is not good. But it is enormously better than what we had.


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> Just send him a text saying something like "The kids were thinking of you today and wanted to say something..." and attach the video to it. I'm sure he'll appreciate the gesture.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


I sent it telling him happy Father's Day and we hope he had a good day. He replied thanks very much and wished me a happy Father's Day also. What a coincidence my mother in law sent me a text 10 mins later wishing me a happy Father's Day. I hadn't heard from them all day.

I think I made the right move. Thanks for the advice guys.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

You should not jump to the conclusion that hour in-laws hate you, or that they necessarily buy all the garbage your WW may be feeding them. They are probably more savvy to what is going on than you think. I think they are just scared they will lose access to the grand kids if they cross her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> I made a quick video on my phone of the kids sitting on the couch saying "happy Father's Day I love you" to their grandpa. I haven't sent it yet as I am still contemplating. I doubt they are expecting it but I think it is a nice gesture on my part. But who knows how they will take it, especially since they haven't spoken to me in a month. I will think about it some more and listen to the advice here before I decide to send it or not. In the grand scheme of things I know I don't owe it to him but he also didn't betray me so why should he pay the price. But I also want to make them all feel the consequences of their daughters actions, so that's why I am hesitant to send it.
> 
> I know I'm making a big deal over nothing, but it seems like every little detail now can be spun into something bigger.



Someone brought up a good point, her parents are probably mostly worried about losing their grandchildren. By sending the video you are showing that you are not a threat to them having access to their grandchildren. It might make them stand up more to your stbxw.


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> I sent it telling him happy Father's Day and we hope he had a good day. He replied thanks very much and wished me a happy Father's Day also. What a coincidence my mother in law sent me a text 10 mins later wishing me a happy Father's Day. I hadn't heard from them all day.
> 
> I think I made the right move. Thanks for the advice guys.


See, you got a good response out of it!!!

You did not owe them anything. But you did the right thing. Your MIL's response shows that you hit a soft spot in her. :smthumbup:


----------



## just got it 55

dadof2 said:


> I made a quick video on my phone of the kids sitting on the couch saying "happy Father's Day I love you" to their grandpa. I haven't sent it yet as I am still contemplating. I doubt they are expecting it but I think it is a nice gesture on my part. But who knows how they will take it, especially since they haven't spoken to me in a month. I will think about it some more and listen to the advice here before I decide to send it or not. In the grand scheme of things I know I don't owe it to him but he also didn't betray me so why should he pay the price. But I also want to make them all feel the consequences of their daughters actions, so that's why I am hesitant to send it.
> 
> I know I'm making a big deal over nothing, but it seems like every little detail now can be spun into something bigger.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dad…….. The only one that can know what your motivations of sending the video is you.

If you think it is a pure gesture of family grandchildren / granddad with no covert manipulative undertones, then send it.

If in your mind you cannot reconcile what your motives are then there is your answer……Don’t send it

55


----------



## dadof2

bandit.45 said:


> You should not jump to the conclusion that hour in-laws hate you, or that they necessarily buy all the garbage your WW may be feeding them. They are probably more savvy to what is going on than you think. I think they are just scared they will lose access to the grand kids if they cross her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. They are smart people but I have seen them manipulated by STBX in the past. I think their biggest fear is that they will lose time with their grandkids if they stand up to her. It still hurts that they have cut off all contact with me but I think it's more about their fear of STBX than it is hate toward me.

I am hoping when I inform them of the extent of the affair they may come back to the middle a little but rather than be totally in her corner. I don't have any big expectations though because I'm sure STBX will say that I am crazy for putting a PI on her. But it have me valuable information so I am definitely glad I did it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Good move Dadof2 and Happy Fathers Day!


----------



## Suspecting2014

Happy Fathers Day!


----------



## SF-FAN

dadof2 said:


> I agree. They are smart people but I have seen them manipulated by STBX in the past. I think their biggest fear is that they will lose time with their grandkids if they stand up to her. It still hurts that they have cut off all contact with me but I think it's more about their fear of STBX than it is hate toward me.
> 
> I am hoping when I inform them of the extent of the affair they may come back to the middle a little but rather than be totally in her corner. I don't have any big expectations though because I'm sure STBX will say that I am crazy for putting a PI on her. But it have me valuable information so I am definitely glad I did it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't underestimate the intelligence and morals of your in-laws. Many on here were telling me not to worry what my in-laws thought and that they would side with my WW anyway. Well more than 6 months later and my in-laws have yet to cave in and forget about what my WW did. My mother-in law said she loves her daughter and will talk to her but will not condone or accept what she's done because it not just affected our marriage but it affected the kids more importantly and the rest of the family.

The only one that has kind of rug swept it is one of her sisters but for the most part I don't think the rest of her family is going to "put it behind them" like she expected them to. And it's not really something I'm even concerned with but for your post, I am giving you my experience. My in-laws are very disappointed in my WW and are not going to just let her rug sweep and move on and it has nothing to do with my feelings.


----------



## Chaparral

You know nothing anyone has said to you, attorneys or PI, has precluded you putting the OP on cheaterville.com. OM is walking around like a rooster that has raided the neighbors henhouse. Give him something to worry about................the reputation a school administrator has to have. NO GUTS NO GLORY.


----------



## Dyokemm

Chap is right.

I'm a teacher and I know that there would be an absolute sh*tstorm for an administrator caught having an A and breaking up the family of one of his subordinates.

This is the type of thing that can get your administrator credential yanked by the state.

If you expose this POS at work with evidence from the PI, I guarantee you he will drop her and run fast...that is unless he has a professional death wish.


----------



## clipclop2

Apparently not in the US. lots of affairs and administrations turning a blind eye. Stories all over TAM.


----------



## Squeakr

clipclop2 said:


> Apparently not in the US. lots of affairs and administrations turning a blind eye. Stories all over TAM.


But most of the stories here are just of cheating teachers and not them having affairs with administration. That is a different animal and what Chap and Dyokem are referring to ( that specific scenario). Schools don't like cheating teachers but seem to turn a blind eye when it doesn't involve either students/parents of enrolled student body or other employees at the school or district it resides in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Our basketball coach got fired for texting a female student .


----------



## LongWalk

What did the PI come up with?

The general consensus is that in-laws are often against affairs breaking up marriages, but once a child, grandchild or sibling has made up his/her mind to dump a spouse for new love, that overrides everything. It may be good to have the channels of communication open when you do the exposure.

The longer you delay exposure the less impact it will have. Everyday that you are separated is a plausible explanation that your wife and POSOM began their relationship after she left you.

For a betrayed spouse exposure is one of the best ways to torpedo an affair. Do you want POSOM to become stepfather to your kids?

Remember that your divorce attorney is not your friend. People often assume that professionals have their clients' best interests in mind. But they generally follow a routine to maximize their profits. Once you have poured money into a lawyer and have reached the really hurting financially point, some lawyers will actually do a bit of "free" work because they know you are bleeding. Some will not.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Apparently not in the US. lots of affairs and administrations turning a blind eye. Stories all over TAM."

I'm in California and I can say it really boils down to applying maximum pressure to the district....they are VERY averse to negative press and legal problems.

There first instinct will be to rugsweep the problem and hope it goes away.

That's why you should file a complaint with the local district, and if there is no action taken to discipline the offenders and end the A, THEN you follow up with a formal complaint to the state board of education citing the district failure.

You see, we teachers work with a license that has a morality requirement...I personally know.

I foolishly got a DUI in the late 1990s...I was really depressed after my fiance and I split and handled that completely wrong...really let myself down.

Anyway...I actually had to go to Sacramento for a formal hearing on whether I would be allowed to keep my certification...it included me having to provide evidence (AA, treatment, etc) that I had not only stopped my bad behavior but was actively working to make sure it never happened again.

If OP makes a formal complaint to the district about POS administrator AND the follows up with a complaint to the state and threatens legal action for failure to enforce the morality clause in the employment contract...I truly believe he will see quick action.

The thing is you have to be both persistent and forceful when dealing with any government bureaucracy....they usually play the delay and waiting game to see if the complaint just gets dropped and goes away...but once it threatens to become a public and legal scandal they react strongly.

I have actually seen this happen with MANY different issues/complaints over 20 years, and I have seen it end people's careers.


----------



## dadof2

I signed off on my response to STBX's petition this morning. We also included some interrogatories and requests for production of documents. We basically want to overwhelm her with paperwork to start letting her know that she doesn't call the shots anymore. We included some questions about the info from the PI so it will be interesting to see how she responds to that. I fully expect her to lie in her answers.

Once she sees the paperwork, I am going to finally get in touch with her parents to let them know about the affair. Once I started working on my response, my lawyer advised that it would be best to hit her with the paperwork revealing what we know about the affair before talking to her parents. It is killing me to wait, but I would rather her first inkling of me knowing what she has been up to be from a lawyers office rather than a conversation with her parents.


----------



## bigbearsfan

dadof2 said:


> I signed off on my response to STBX's petition this morning. We also included some interrogatories and requests for production of documents. We basically want to overwhelm her with paperwork to start letting her know that she doesn't call the shots anymore. We included some questions about the info from the PI so it will be interesting to see how she responds to that. I fully expect her to lie in her answers.
> 
> Once she sees the paperwork, I am going to finally get in touch with her parents to let them know about the affair. Once I started working on my response, my lawyer advised that it would be best to hit her with the paperwork revealing what we know about the affair before talking to her parents. It is killing me to wait, but I would rather her first inkling of me knowing what she has been up to be from a lawyers office rather than a conversation with her parents.


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> I signed off on my response to STBX's petition this morning. We also included some interrogatories and requests for production of documents. We basically want to overwhelm her with paperwork to start letting her know that she doesn't call the shots anymore. We included some questions about the info from the PI so it will be interesting to see how she responds to that. I fully expect her to lie in her answers.
> 
> Once she sees the paperwork, I am going to finally get in touch with her parents to let them know about the affair. Once I started working on my response, my lawyer advised that it would be best to hit her with the paperwork revealing what we know about the affair before talking to her parents. It is killing me to wait, but I would rather her first inkling of me knowing what she has been up to be from a lawyers office rather than a conversation with her parents.


Although I suspect their response will be muted, I'd like to know if they offer you an apology for their daughter's behavior.


----------



## happyman64

Your lawyer is right.

Hit her hard with paperwork, requests and I hope an interview with the OM and her.

Even if the interviews never happen they will crap themselves.

Has your lawyer advised you on your family whispering to the school board?

While it would be a nice slap you do not want your walkaway wayward wife losing her job.

Not at this time anyways. 

HM


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> I signed off on my response to STBX's petition this morning. We also included some interrogatories and requests for production of documents. We basically want to overwhelm her with paperwork to start letting her know that she doesn't call the shots anymore. We included some questions about the info from the PI so it will be interesting to see how she responds to that. I fully expect her to lie in her answers.
> 
> Once she sees the paperwork, I am going to finally get in touch with her parents to let them know about the affair. Once I started working on my response, my lawyer advised that it would be best to hit her with the paperwork revealing what we know about the affair before talking to her parents. It is killing me to wait, but I would rather her first inkling of me knowing what she has been up to be from a lawyers office rather than a conversation with her parents.


Besides some photos of her with him after she filed for divorce, what paperwork do you have about the affair? From your previous posts I though you had nothing else to prove an affair. :scratchhead:


----------



## WillinTampa

dadof2 said:


> My Original Thread is in the "Going through D or S" section, but I moved this post here on the advice of another poster. Having a rough go of it today:
> 
> Having a bad day today. Just keep thinking about what she's done/doing and it makes me so upset. I don't understand how she could walk away from our marriage so quickly and move on with her life like I never existed. I found out from a coworker that she is out with a few friends including OM right now having lunch and drinks at a restaurant here in town. I compare that with my situation, sitting in my office eating a sandwich, and I just feel worthless. How is it that she can be doing exactly what she wants and feel so good about it with no one to tell her any different, and I am left here with a broken marriage and our 2 small children are caught up in the middle.
> 
> I am trying to be strong and work in the 180, but as my counselor says, there are "landmines" out there that pop up from time to time. Today is one of those days. I am just so hurt by what she's done and she doesn't have to feel any of the repercussions of her actions. She gets the kids for a few days, then gets a few days off to go party with her new friends and posOM. Its just not fair. I am willing to do anything to make our marriage work, and she couldn't care less and no one is giving her any reasonable advice. We have been on LC about kids only - texting only - for a month now. We have not seen each other or spoken on the phone in that time. Its like she has wrapped me up in a little box and stored me away from her mind like I never existed!
> 
> And to top it off, she leaves Sunday with the kids and her parents for a week at the beach! It is just not fair. I don't even want her back at this point, I just hate the thought of another man screwing her and her enjoying it. I hate the fact that she doesn't feel any guilt or remorse for what she's doing. I hate the fact that no one is calling her out for her bull****. And I hate the fact that I cannot get this situation off my mind from more than a few minutes, while I may cross her mind maybe a few minutes a day.
> 
> Sorry to vent so much, but just having a bad day. Someone please give me some advice! I know I have to get out and be active, and I am working on it. I started exercising again and it makes me feel good, but only for an hour or so. I don't have much of a social life, I was happy to be a husband and father and didn't need to go out and party for a good time. I am in good shape, so its not like I need to lose 30 lbs, I have been taking care of myself and my house just fine without her around. It is just so hard to get out of bed in the morning and face another day of worrying and wondering why she can do what she's doing with a straight face and leave me broken on the floor.
> 
> Link to original thread w/ backstory:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...s-filed-divorce-after-2-weeks-separation.html


Keep exercising -- build muscle, work on appearance, take dancing lessons -- dress well --- anything to get you back in action --- You'll be surprised at how much better you'll do than her down the road. 

Now that's she a free agent, OM needs to deliver or get off the pot --and those guys often get off the pot, when the pressure's on and the thrill's gone. 

Success is the best revenge -- and if you don't want revenge, the success is still nice.

Yeah, she's free, but she also gave you your freedom in the process-- enjoy it, _(what else are you going to do with it?)_

Hang in there and find your bad-self. 

.


----------



## dadof2

As far as letting her parents know about the affair, I know that whatever I tell them will not go over like I intend it to. They won't see it all my way, but I would hope that it will at least open their eyes a little that I am not the bad guy here.

I know I keep dwelling on exposure to her parents, but it means a lot to me to have them see what STBX is doing. For her to directly lie to them and smear my name really hurts me. She has not had any consequences for her terrible acts, but that will slowly begin to change.

On a personal note, I spent the weekend back in my old college town with some old friends and had a great time. Played some golf, chased some girls, and I even got my first massage. Get the kids back this afternoon for a few days, so just trying to keep putting one foot in front of the other.


----------



## Chuck71

dadof2 said:


> As far as letting her parents know about the affair, I know that whatever I tell them will not go over like I intend it to. They won't see it all my way, but I would hope that it will at least open their eyes a little that I am not the bad guy here.
> 
> I know I keep dwelling on exposure to her parents, but it means a lot to me to have them see what STBX is doing. For her to directly lie to them and smear my name really hurts me. *She has not had any consequences for her terrible acts, but that will slowly begin to change.*
> 
> On a personal note, I spent the weekend back in my old college town with some old friends and had a great time. Played some golf, chased some girls, and I even got my first massage. Get the kids back this afternoon for a few days, so just trying to keep putting one foot in front of the other.


Her attitude will change....quickly

you will definitely hear an earful 

stay cool, firm, dispassionate

and feel free to say "I'm not OK with your tone"

walk away, hang up the phone or do not respond to text


----------



## Ripper

Not politically correct and might offend some people, but entertaining video and maybe some useful info for someone in your situation.

THE FULL MONTY - Redonkulas.com - YouTube


----------



## happyman64

Dadof2

Is there still a RO against you?

HM


----------



## dadof2

happyman64 said:


> Dadof2
> 
> Is there still a RO against you?
> 
> HM


Yes as of right now. We put a request in our re conventional demand to have it removed. She had no proof that an RO was needed and my attorney was pretty upset that it was signed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tdwal

dadof2 said:


> Yes as of right now. We put a request in our re conventional demand to have it removed. She had no proof that an RO was needed and my attorney was pretty upset that it was signed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If she comes to your place, isn't she violating the RO? I would call the police on her if she showed up. However they would probably not come because it has to be handled in court.

Better yet, have your PI approach with video and film her. It will freak her out, you can tell her she is violating the court order and now you have proof of it. She will freak out. 

My son and ex used to exchange my grandson at a gas station. She always brought her boyfriend who was trying to pick fights with my son. So I came a long to keep the peace on a lot of trips but one I took out my phone and filmed his antics and her verbal attack on me for filming. I just stood there and captured it all. It came in handy in custody court.


----------



## Squeakr

Generally the petitioner can't violate the RO, and their actions can cause enforcement of the order to be hard and sometimes not possible due to their actions (but it is generally such that the petitioner can not be in violation, now I would cheek with a lawyer and see if there is a castle law in effect that would not be cause for one leaving their own house/ workplace, etc when they have a RO against them and the petitioner comes to said locations unprovoked).


----------



## tdwal

Squeakr said:


> Generally the petitioner can't violate the RO, and their actions can cause enforcement of the order to be hard and sometimes not possible due to their actions (but it is generally such that the petitioner can not be in violation, now I would cheek with a lawyer and see if there is a castle law in effect that would not be cause for one leaving their own house/ workplace, etc when they have a RO against them and the petitioner comes to said locations unprovoked).


Your probably right but I guarantee it will have her head spinning because she would not know it. And if there is no castle law in place that would allow him to stay put when she shows up, all the better to get a video of her forcing him into that situation.


----------



## GusPolinski

Just document every time that she comes over to drop the kids off. That she's even willing to do that on a regular basis would seem to indicate that she's not at all afraid of him, ergo the RO is w/o basis and needs to be lifted.

There should be penalties for employing this type of baseless legal maneuvering.


----------



## Squeakr

I could be mistaken but I thought he said the exchanges have happened through the daycare facility. One drops off and the other picks up so they have not interact up that way to document.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## honcho

As stated earlier the petitioner can do just about anything they want and its up to the respondent to follow the orders of the RO. With RO’s you are found guilty on day one without due process and basically have to be found innocent once you get a hearing. Its reverse of everything.

She can show up at the house, call or text him and “bait” him all she wants to and legally he cant even say “go away”. I have been down this RO road and the police who have seen the RO system abused just like this spent a great deal of time telling me just how people will try and trick someone into violating the order. 

The idea behind RO’s to begin with have merit in the cases of true abuse but like just about everything in the legal system it has been manipulated and abused. Judges just sign off on them and hand them out like candy because they don’t want to be on the news because the One time they didn’t give an RO and something happened.


----------



## dadof2

Squeakr said:


> I could be mistaken but I thought he said the exchanges have happened through the daycare facility. One drops off and the other picks up so they have not interact up that way to document.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes 99% of our exchanges occur at daycare. She has been to my house twice since the RO has been in effect and I had my recorder in my pocket both times. We have made this clear in our response that she is not afraid of me and that we demand strict proof of the abuse. My lawyer requested the RO be lifted immediately. We also included that she is having an extra marital affair and is attempting to use the RO and abuse claims to divert attention from her affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## honcho

“My lawyer requested the RO be lifted immediately. We also included that she is having an extra marital affair and is attempting to use the RO and abuse claims to divert attention from her affair.”

Excellent response and also provided the angle to get the affair into the judges head without dramatics.


----------



## clipclop2

Yeah Ripper, offensive.

If you want woman to take men seriously then knock off the nonsense.


----------



## Ripper

clipclop2 said:


> Yeah Ripper, offensive.


Hence the warning.



clipclop2 said:


> If you want woman to take men seriously then knock off the nonsense.


Going out on a limb here and saying you are a woman. You are also probably more offended by the content rather than the delivery. Understandable. I don't necessary agree with all of it either.

The point is to provide the OP with different avenues to approach this if needed. The video is easier to digest than a two page TL;DR post.

FYI, don't watch anymore of that guys videos. It might cause you PTSD.


----------



## happyman64

dadof2 said:


> Yes as of right now. We put a request in our re conventional demand to have it removed. She had no proof that an RO was needed and my attorney was pretty upset that it was signed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For this reason alone you need to clear your name.

Have your inlaws ever mentioned the RO?

Or why their daughter needed an RO against you?

She has painted a bad picture of you. You need to clear that up.

She got the RO so she could cheat on you without you being an obstacle to her affair.

And that is what you need to make clear.

To everyone.

HM


----------



## Lila

dadof2 said:


> Yes 99% of our exchanges occur at daycare. She has been to my house twice since the RO has been in effect and I had my recorder in my pocket both times. We have made this clear in our response that she is not afraid of me and that we demand strict proof of the abuse. My lawyer requested the RO be lifted immediately. *We also included that she is having an extra marital affair and is attempting to use the RO and abuse claims to divert attention from her affair.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I understand your lawyer stating there is no evidence to support the RO in terms of spousal abuse but I don't get why she's claiming the RO is in place to divert attention from your wife's extra marital affair. I thought legally, it could only be considered an "extra marital affair" if two people are still together. As of the date of legal separation, any relationship(s) your ex chooses to have cannot be used in your divorce proceedings. Therefore, it's not an "extra marital affair" if you and your stbx were legally separated at the time of said affair.

Is this a lawyer tactic to get better terms during divorce negotiations?


----------



## Squeakr

Lila said:


> I understand your lawyer stating there is no evidence to support the RO in terms of spousal abuse but I don't get why she's claiming the RO is in place to divert attention from your wife's extra marital affair. I thought legally, it could only be considered an "extra marital affair" if two people are still together. As of the date of legal separation, any relationship(s) your ex chooses to have cannot be used in your divorce proceedings. Therefore, it's not an "extra marital affair" if you and your stbx were legally separated at the time of said affair.
> 
> Is this a lawyer tactic to get better terms during divorce negotiations?


Possibly, but she filed the RO at the same or before she filed for the separation. The separation hadn't been officially completed (I believe) as he has a time period to respond and was served both at the same time. Also, she was involved prior to the separation, so it is being claimed about the "extra marital affair" as it existed prior to to separation and this is just trying to further assist it (also I am not sure that in all states a separation agreement allows for extra marital conduct, some states I believe do not allow it).


----------



## dadof2

I have been doing a lot of thinking about exposing the affair to her family. I had been advised by my lawyer to hold off while we had the PI out gathering evidence. Now that we have solid proof of the affair, I was planning on not saying anything until STBX was served with my response to her petition. My response includes a request for admissions and we state many things that she must either admit or deny. I was hoping this would be the nuclear strike that she won't see coming.

Now that the paperwork has been filed by me, it may take weeks for her to get served. I am considering going ahead and talking to her family now just to get it out there. It may take some of the sting of her being hit with the response, but it will also catch her off guard if I talk to them first so she won't have time to build up a story about her and OM. I know we are all thirsty for blood, but I just don't want to jump on the exposure to soon. I have been waiting a month gathering evidence and keeping quiet, so I don't want to ruin it now. But the paperwork has been filed, so she is going to get it sooner or later anyway.

I am just wrestling with this and looking for any input on how to approach the exposure. I was thinking that if I talk to them before she gets the papers I won't go into detail of what she is going to be served. I will just tell them that I have evidence of the affair going back for months and let them figure it out. That way STBX will be aware that I know, but still will be shocked at the depth and extent of the statements in our response.


----------



## Racer

So you finally got solid proof of an affair?


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> I will just tell them that I have evidence of the affair going back for months and let them figure it out.


What kind and how much evidence were you able to uncover?

Either way... yeah, I'd probably wait until she gets served to expose.


----------



## happyman64

Dadof2

Will you know the exact day your wife will receive the response?

If yes then that is the day you expose the affair.

Will it be weeks or truly months?

HM


----------



## Racer

Oh, and the exposure. I’d hold off until the petition is served. No reason to give her time to figure out a lie to tell. You should be informed when it’s been served. That’s when you call her parents. Basically tell them that she might need their support (approach from the concerned angle). Tell them you are countering with adultery, have solid proof of it, and it changes the divorce settlement. Let them know who the OM is and how and when they met in just one-liner terms; allow them to use their own judgment and put the pieces together for ‘why’ the marriage didn’t work. Tell them you are sorry, but question the OM’s advice she’s getting since he’s rather lacking in morals. Then end the conversation; You are sorry it came to this, but now have to do what you have to do.


----------



## dadof2

I have plenty of proof of the affair from PI. My father also spoke with the school board about them being together and OM being an authority figure. 

I don't have anything legally, but I am talking about exposing to her family simply to clear my name and let them know what she has been up to with our children around OM. They will take care of the rest. STBX filed for D against me first, so it won't be a surprise that I will respond. My attorney is out until tomorrow so I can't get an answer of when exactly her side will get the papers. If it is within a few days I can wait, but I don't want to sit on this info for another month.


----------



## aug

If you/lawyer know where she is now, where she's living, where she works, it'll only take a few days for her to be served.

Or, she can even be served when she picks up or drops off the kids.


----------



## aug

dadof2 said:


> I have plenty of proof of the affair from PI. My father also spoke with the school board about them being together and OM being an authority figure.
> 
> I don't have anything legally, but I am talking about exposing to her family simply to clear my name and let them know what she has been up to with our children around OM. They will take care of the rest. *STBX filed for D against me first, so it won't be a surprise that I will respond. * My attorney is out until tomorrow so I can't get an answer of when exactly her side will get the papers. If it is within a few days I can wait, but I don't want to sit on this info for another month.



Since she filed first, did she use a lawyer? If so, I would think your lawyer only needs to serve her lawyer - and that would be very quickly done.

Your lawyer's assistant or staff would know the answer (given that your lawyer is away).


----------



## SF-FAN

dadof2 said:


> I have plenty of proof of the affair from PI. My father also spoke with the school board about them being together and OM being an authority figure.
> 
> I don't have anything legally, but I am talking about exposing to her family simply to clear my name and let them know what she has been up to with our children around OM. They will take care of the rest. STBX filed for D against me first, so it won't be a surprise that I will respond. My attorney is out until tomorrow so I can't get an answer of when exactly her side will get the papers. If it is within a few days I can wait, but I don't want to sit on this info for another month.


I don't understand why you would wait to expose until the response is served. I also don't understand why the response will take days to serve if the process server knows where she lives or works.

If you wait until the response is served and then expose, that gives her time to try to come up with a story but if you expose now, and then she gets served, she won't have any time to come up or justify what she did and she will look like a liar to her parents.


----------



## SF-FAN

aug said:


> Since she filed first, did she use a lawyer? If so, I would think your lawyer only needs to serve her lawyer - and that would be very quickly done.
> 
> Your lawyer's assistant or staff would know the answer (given that your lawyer is away).


If she has an attorney, her attorney's information should be on the D documents served to OP - he doesn't have to call anyone. If not, it would say "in pro per" on the D documents.


----------



## dadof2

Well I think my plan for exposing to her parents isn't necessary anymore. I got a random text from her mom this morning for the first time in weeks saying "Please be open to what is about to happen."

Then I get a call from STBX. First time we've spoken in 2 months. I grab my recorder and answer the call. Right off the bat she asks if I would like to get together with her and the kids for dinner tonight. I told her I don't think that's a good idea. She goes on to say that she has been thinking a lot and really misses having the kids everyday. She then asks if I would be open to returning to marriage counseling. I say no. Then we talk for about 20 mins and I tell her how much what she did hurt me, but that I am getting through it and am becoming happier in my new life each day. I asked her if OM dumped her and that's why she's crawling back and she said it's not about that. I also told her that with all of her lies and manipulation in the last few months that a 20 minute "I'm sorry" phone call is not going to work.

I told her that we need to let the court system work and keep the status quo, and I politely hung up.

She texted me 5 mins later asking to please consider counseling with her. I did not respond.

I assume she got served and saw that I am not playing around. We sent the Request for Admissions right off the bat and it listed 27 statements about her affair, irresponsibility with kids, and her prescription abuse. I knew it would scare her, but I had no idea she would react this fast.

Thanks so much to all the guys here on the forum who have helped me prepare for this point. I could literally feel the power shifting through the phone. Now I call the shots and things are on my terms. It has been a rough few months and I've spent a good bit of money on lawyers and PI's but this is what I was going for. We now hold all the cards for negotiations. She is weak and will be agreeable to almost anything right now.

My lawyer is working on a script and I will call STBX back in a few days with some options, all favorable to me. Then we will see how "sorry" she really is.


----------



## GusPolinski

Damn. Well played, sir.


----------



## bandit.45

I just got a hard on.


----------



## dadof2

bandit.45 said:


> Damn. Well played, sir.
> 
> 
> I just got a hard on.


Thanks boys, today is a good day...


----------



## Nucking Futs

GusPolinski said:


> Damn. Well played, sir.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I'm chortling on your behalf. When I get done typing this I'll chortle and rub my hands together. :smthumbup:


----------



## 3putt

Well, that sounded so good I think I'll go back and read it again.

:thumbup:


----------



## Nucking Futs

Ok, got that out of the way.

I think you can expect a phone call or visit from her parents trying to talk you back into her control. You need to be mentally prepared for that. Don't forget, her only having the kids half the time means they lose half of their access too.


----------



## doubletrouble

Continue to tread carefully, stay your course. This may only be a temporary shift in the wind, or a different strategy. I know you don't trust her, why would you? But you can't take anything at face value, either. 

My guess is just what you asked her, OM dumped her sorry ass.


----------



## Nucking Futs

dadof2 said:


> Well I think my plan for exposing to her parents isn't necessary anymore. I got a random text from her mom this morning for the first time in weeks saying "Please be open to what is about to happen."
> 
> Then I get a call from STBX. First time we've spoken in 2 months. I grab my recorder and answer the call. Right off the bat she asks if I would like to get together with her and the kids for dinner tonight. I told her I don't think that's a good idea. She goes on to say that she has been thinking a lot and really misses having the kids everyday. She then asks if I would be open to returning to marriage counseling. I say no. Then we talk for about 20 mins and I tell her how much what she did hurt me, but that I am getting through it and am becoming happier in my new life each day. I asked her if OM dumped her and that's why she's crawling back and she said it's not about that. I also told her that with all of her lies and manipulation in the last few months that *a 20 minute "I'm sorry" phone call is not going to work.*
> 
> I told her that we need to let the court system work and keep the status quo, and I politely hung up.
> 
> She texted me 5 mins later asking to please consider counseling with her. I did not respond.
> 
> I assume she got served and saw that I am not playing around. We sent the Request for Admissions right off the bat and it listed 27 statements about her affair, irresponsibility with kids, and her prescription abuse. I knew it would scare her, but I had no idea she would react this fast.
> 
> Thanks so much to all the guys here on the forum who have helped me prepare for this point. I could literally feel the power shifting through the phone. Now I call the shots and things are on my terms. It has been a rough few months and I've spent a good bit of money on lawyers and PI's but this is what I was going for. We now hold all the cards for negotiations. She is weak and will be agreeable to almost anything right now.
> 
> My lawyer is working on a script and I will call STBX back in a few days with some options, all favorable to me. Then we will see how "sorry" she really is.


I know this isn't verbatim but if your description of how it went is accurate it wasn't an "I'm sorry" phone call, it was an "I see what I'm about to lose and I'll stay with you to prevent that" phone call. 

Did she really say that she wants to reconcile because she doesn't want to lose time with the kids, nothing about being sorry for the pain she put you through, nothing about missing you?


----------



## dadof2

Nucking Futs said:


> I know this isn't verbatim but if your description of how it went is accurate it wasn't an "I'm sorry" phone call, it was an "I see what I'm about to lose and I'll stay with you to prevent that" phone call.
> 
> *Did she really say that she wants to reconcile because she doesn't want to lose time with the kids, nothing about being sorry for the pain she put you through, nothing about missing you?*


Not a word about me or the marriage. I definitely noticed that. Only that she has made some mistakes but wants whats best for our kids and wants our family back together.


----------



## Clay2013

Good Job 

Clay


----------



## 3putt

I'll bet that boy toy is sh!tting bricks right about now as well.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Nice.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Wow, one moment you're an abusive, terrifying, need a restraining order husband, and then the next..."let's try to work this out"....


----------



## doubletrouble

CASE_Sensitive said:


> Wow, one moment you're an abusive, terrifying, need a restraining order husband, and then the next..."let's try to work this out"....


It's freaky suspicious to me.


----------



## turnera

Yeah, odd how it wasn't about how she misses YOU. "MIL, thanks for the heads up, though I didn't need it. Nice to have confirmation that she puts her own well-being ahead of her kids' well-being and mine and only responded when she sees a consequence. Good luck cleaning that up for her."


----------



## GusPolinski

CASE_Sensitive said:


> Wow, one moment you're an abusive, terrifying, need a restraining order husband, and then the next..."let's try to work this out"....


Word.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Well I think my plan for exposing to her parents isn't necessary anymore. I got a random text from her mom this morning for the first time in weeks saying "Please be open to what is about to happen."
> 
> Then I get a call from STBX. First time we've spoken in 2 months. I grab my recorder and answer the call. Right off the bat she asks if I would like to get together with her and the kids for dinner tonight. I told her I don't think that's a good idea. She goes on to say that she has been thinking a lot and really misses having the kids everyday. She then asks if I would be open to returning to marriage counseling. I say no. Then we talk for about 20 mins and I tell her how much what she did hurt me, but that I am getting through it and am becoming happier in my new life each day. I asked her if OM dumped her and that's why she's crawling back and she said it's not about that. I also told her that with all of her lies and manipulation in the last few months that a 20 minute "I'm sorry" phone call is not going to work.
> 
> I told her that we need to let the court system work and keep the status quo, and I politely hung up.
> 
> She texted me 5 mins later asking to please consider counseling with her. I did not respond.
> 
> I assume she got served and saw that I am not playing around. We sent the Request for Admissions right off the bat and it listed 27 statements about her affair, irresponsibility with kids, and her prescription abuse. I knew it would scare her, but I had no idea she would react this fast.
> 
> Thanks so much to all the guys here on the forum who have helped me prepare for this point. I could literally feel the power shifting through the phone. Now I call the shots and things are on my terms. It has been a rough few months and I've spent a good bit of money on lawyers and PI's but this is what I was going for. We now hold all the cards for negotiations. She is weak and will be agreeable to almost anything right now.
> 
> My lawyer is working on a script and I will call STBX back in a few days with some options, all favorable to me. Then we will see how "sorry" she really is.


Dude. I'm bookmarking this. Seriously. :smthumbup:


----------



## honcho

And right now because of the RO you cant really meet her anyway. This is where it gets tricky because if you meet her and she doesn’t like what you have to say she can create all sorts of drama for you.

She really needs to voluntarily dismiss the RO before you can meet with her. This of course would have to mean that she would basically admit that she made that stuff up and takes a great deal of wind out of her sails.


----------



## happyman64

Can I make a suggestion?

Contact your MIL & FIL.

Speak to both of them, alone. Without your wife there.

See if they are full of crap or are willing to support you and your kids as you straighten this mess out.

Listen to them first. Lower their guard.

Then tell them the truth about their daughter.

Then ask them if they will support you and the kids through this mess.

I had a buddy go through this same scenario a few years ago. 

His inlaws took his WW in. Helped her get clean. Helped with the grandkids. And supported their family through the divorce.

And boy did they get a dose of "truth".

To this day he has a great relationship with his exinlaws. Better that their own daughter has.

In fact, his MIL watched the kids while they were in court finalizing the divorce.

Glad you took the power back. 

I hope the OM loses his job. He deserves it.

HM


----------



## Racer

honcho said:


> ...
> This of course would have to mean that she would basically admit that she made that stuff up and takes a great deal of wind out of her sails.


He recorded her call... She's already lost the wind.


----------



## sandc

I think Bandit's in lurve...

Anyway, it's going to be kind of hard to get the family back together with that RO and all. I hope that was one of the demands she had to answer in your counter claim.


----------



## dadof2

Being that I don't have the children tonight, I fully expect MIL to try to ask me to consider taking STBX back. I may drive over to their house (about an hour away) and sit them both down and tell them everything. I am sure she is only trickle truthing them.

Once they hear everything they will probably back off of STBX's bandwagon for a little bit.


----------



## tom67

How much do you want to bet that when your dad spoke to one of the guys on the school board om got an earful
And hopefully a lot more.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> Being that I don't have the children tonight, I fully expect MIL to try to ask me to consider taking STBX back. I may drive over to their house (about an hour away) and sit them both down and tell them everything. I am sure she is only trickle truthing them.
> 
> Once they hear everything they will probably back off of STBX's bandwagon for a little bit.


Good idea just the facts as little emotion as possible.
They can believe whatever.


----------



## tom67

I'll tell you most family lawyers I have met are weird, scummy and well strange.
Yours sounds like a good one I dare say and the pi also you are very lucky.:smthumbup:


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Being that I don't have the children tonight, I fully expect MIL to try to ask me to consider taking STBX back. I may drive over to their house (about an hour away) and sit them both down and tell them everything. I am sure she is only trickle truthing them.
> 
> Once they hear everything they will probably back off of STBX's bandwagon for a little bit.


Maybe open the conversation by letting them know that, while you're committed to being the best father that you can be, and will likely be spending as much time w/ your kids as you possibly can in the coming weeks/months/years, you have no intention of doing anything to keep them from seeing or speaking w/ their grandparents.

This will probably go a long way toward breaking through any of the bullsh*t that your STBXW has laid on them in the past couple of months.


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> Maybe open the conversation by letting them know that, while you're committed to being the best father that you can be, and will likely be spending as much time w/ your kids as you possibly can in the coming weeks/months/years, you have no intention of doing anything to keep them from seeing or speaking w/ their grandparents.
> 
> This will probably go a long way toward breaking through any of the bullsh*t that your STBXW has laid on them in the past couple of months.


I totally agree. Any talks I have with her parents will be centered around them and the kids. They can't control their crazy daughter's actions so they shouldn't be punished for it by not seeing their grandkids.


----------



## doubletrouble

Exactly.


----------



## tom67

If your w calls you again tell her until the ro is lifted you will not see her.
WTF.
You have regained all the power back take your time it's just started.


----------



## Hicks

I would not go see them.
If they contact you I would ask them if has she told them the truth.
If they say yes, ask them what it is. IF they say anything other than the truth as their answer, tell them that there can be no talk of reconciliation until the truth is out in the open.


----------



## NotLikeYou

dadof2 said:


> Well I think my plan for exposing to her parents isn't necessary anymore. I got a random text from her mom this morning for the first time in weeks saying "Please be open to what is about to happen."


dadof2, this is the part that worries me.

Its not clear whether MIL was texting you to be open to getting divorced, or to a chance to reconcile with your STBXW.

There have been several good approaches described as far as talking to the in-laws, but I have not read anything from you that indicates that you have a good idea of where they are at, and how much they know.

Their main priorities will probably be, first, the welfare of their daughter and second, the welfare of their grandkids. If they have better morals, those priorities will be reversed, and you can probably call that one yourself.

But remember that they are going to come down on their daughter's side, and what's best for her will not necessarily be what's best for you.

These people are not your friends.


----------



## doubletrouble

NLY, I read it two ways as well. Do2 knows more about their way of communication, but communication can be tenuous in the best circumstances. 

OP, I would read it two ways. I'm not sure wtf they're saying there.


----------



## Nucking Futs

doubletrouble said:


> NLY, I read it two ways as well. Do2 knows more about their way of communication, but communication can be tenuous in the best circumstances.
> 
> OP, I would read it two ways. I'm not sure wtf they're saying there.


I read it one way. MIL knew WW was going to call and try to set up R and wanted him to be open to it. I see virtually no chance any other explanation fits.

On the RO front it's possible she was just trying to get you to violate it, not really interested in R. I think there's little chance of that, I really think she just forgot about it, but if I were in your shoes I'd proceed under that assumption until she voluntarily removes the RO. I'd probably even mention to the MIL that it was a transparent attempt to get you to violate the RO so she can have you arrested and you're not falling for it. I wouldn't mention that I want her to remove it just to see if she does it on her own.


----------



## aug

If you get her to remove the RO, that's one less legal motion you need to pay for.


----------



## doubletrouble

NF by the way, I love your sig line


----------



## 3putt

Nucking Futs said:


> I read it one way. MIL knew WW was going to call and try to set up R and wanted him to be open to it. I see virtually no chance any other explanation fits.
> 
> On the RO front it's possible she was just trying to get you to violate it, not really interested in R. I think there's little chance of that, I really think she just forgot about it, but if I were in your shoes I'd proceed under that assumption until she voluntarily removes the RO. I'd probably even mention to the MIL that it was a transparent attempt to get you to violate the RO so she can have you arrested and you're not falling for it. I wouldn't mention that I want her to remove it just to see if she does it on her own.


Her and MIL contacting him could also be used to have the RO lifted when the time comes. Judges don't particularly like issuing those and then having the one that filed for it in the first place violate it.


----------



## Squeakr

Nucking Futs said:


> I read it one way. MIL knew WW was going to call and try to set up R and wanted him to be open to it. I see virtually no chance any other explanation fits.
> 
> On the RO front it's possible she was just trying to get you to violate it, not really interested in R. I think there's little chance of that, I really think she just forgot about it, but if I were in your shoes I'd proceed under that assumption until she voluntarily removes the RO. I'd probably even mention to the MIL that it was a transparent attempt to get you to violate the RO so she can have you arrested and you're not falling for it. I wouldn't mention that I want her to remove it just to see if she does it on her own.


I must be jaded as this exactly what I thought.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## doubletrouble

So between Not, Nuck and Squeak, and me, there were two ways to read it. 

OP you must be the sage here, since you know these folks best. At least we've given you food for thought.


----------



## 3putt

doubletrouble said:


> Not, Nuck and Squeak, and me


Sounds like a Jamaican law firm.


----------



## warlock07

dadof2, what do you want now ?

Would your R under the right circumstances ?

Today is a good day. She contacted you when she was in shock or scared about the situation. She will regroup. Currently, the request for counseling and the apologies are just stalling techniques.. So be prepared for backlash too


----------



## EleGirl

Before you do anything call your attorney and find out if you're response has been delivered to her attorney yet. If it has not rethink visiting her parents. 

Also if you visit her parents the chance is high that they will get her over there to talk to you in person
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Racer

And a few key reminders because some part of you will probably start whispering “but maybe she’s changed and it will work out”. Before you allow even that hope, you need to see real remorse. That’s even before MC. MC’s tend to do what you ask; How do we make this work? They usually won’t tell you ‘divorce’. People have to want to change for themselves; you need remorse, not regret or just sorrow. Hopefully, you can see she isn’t remorseful; it wasn’t about you and the hurt she caused you. Read up on what remorse looks like… Until you see it, do not consider R. Make that a rule in your head.

Also expect her to have her own rollercoaster as the reality sets in. She’ll be pissed, then desperate, cruel, then begging. She might try seduction. Might go to anger since you aren’t just going along with her fantasy. Mine went for trickle truth, what she knew I wanted was ‘wtf happened?’, like giving a junkie ‘just a taste’. Sorry…. It’s one reason to limit contact since it will also toss you around emotionally as if you aren’t already swimming in it.


----------



## SF-FAN

warlock07 said:


> dadof2, what do you want now ?
> 
> Would your R under the right circumstances ?
> 
> Today is a good day. She contacted you when she was in shock or scared about the situation. She will regroup. Currently, the request for counseling and the apologies are just stalling techniques.. So be prepared for backlash too


Good point. When I confronted my WW with cold hard evidence of her affair she was devastated and didn't know what to do. She begged, pleaded, bawled, etc. but within a day later she re-grouped and all of a sudden was ready to take me on.

Try to stay 2 steps ahead!


----------



## Just Joe

I don't like the idea of her requesting removal of the restraining order. I would prefer the court do it. My reasoning is, if she asks it to be removed, it looks like the abuse/fear was legitimate, she just realizes she loves you/her family despite your abuse, feels you have gotten better. Many an abused wife has returned to their abuser. If the court removes it, it looks like she was full of sh1t all along, you never were an abuser. Just my opinion.


----------



## Just Joe

I am against initiating any contact with her parents at this time. You have nothing but a short vague text from her mother. For all you know, your wife could have sent it using her mom's phone. Considering the length of your marriage and how good of a husband/dad you've been, they have acted terribly toward you. Most parents, in my opinion, can see the faults of their own children and get through the bullsh1t. They raised her, they know her, and they know you, so for them to just accept that you are a monster shows they lack any level of objectivity, they appear to be completely on her side. Granted, she may have poisoned them over time, but they saw you with their own eyes over that time, so they should have had some level of doubt about what she was saying.

Anyway, I don't think very highly at all of her parents from what you have posted.


----------



## just got it 55

tom67 said:


> How much do you want to bet that when your dad spoke to one of the guys on the school board om got an earful
> And hopefully a lot more.


Thats why Dads POS STBXW got the

Thanks but no thanks baby, I've already got more trouble than I need speach.

See Ya B!tch

This usually comes after the BS gets the ILYBNILWY speach

55


----------



## sandc

tdwal said:


> Do you think this all may be the result of your Dad talking to the school board, him maybe dumping her? Maybe she has not been served yet?


Exactly what I was thinking.



just got it 55 said:


> Thats why Dads POS STBXW got the
> 
> Thanks but no thanks baby I've already got mor trouble than I need speach
> 
> See Ya B!tch
> 
> This usually comes after the BS gets the ILYBNILWY speach
> 
> 55


:iagree: He wanted the fantasy... he didn't want her baggage. Now she wants to bring that baggage home to you. Don't even consider letting her come home until she starts talking about repairing the damage she did to you.

Another TAM'er actually went through with the divorce because his wife killed their marriage with her PA. He wanted her to face the consequences (and he wanted to play the field the RIGHT way). He eventually ended up remarrying her I believe.

So, you've got options. The balance of power is shifting your way. Take your time and decide what YOU want.


----------



## Chaparral

I agree the sh!t hit the fan with the school board.

I doubt mom and dad bought her story and want to save the family.

Posom is a worm, hopefully ww has found that out.

As far as contacting her mom and dad, I would just send some exploratory emails as in, "what's going on?". "Can't meet her without violating po.". "What's the situation with her boyfriend?"


----------



## tom67

You can also tell her parents you won't consider r until she goes to a treatment center for her addiction to prescription drugs mixing it with alcohol.
May as well get it all out in the open.


----------



## happyman64

tom67 said:


> You can also tell her parents you won't consider r until she goes to a treatment center for her addiction to prescription drugs mixing it with alcohol.
> May as well get it all out in the open.


Exactly. That is why I recommended the meeting.

And if the WW is there he can just get in his car and leave not wanting to violate the RO.

It is way too early for any decision on whether he wants to R or D.

Right now his priority is him, his kids and his attorney! 

HM


----------



## Dyokemm

I have taught for over 20 years...and I would bet dollars to pennies that this massive turn-around is a direct outcome of your dad going to the school board.

As I advised you several times, dadof2, your best weapon in ending this A and bringing the situation under control was to forcefully expose this to the district...I think it was probably even more powerful coming from your father to a personal friend on the board.

I'll bet money that POS and WW's principal sh*t bricks after the school board member called and asked WTF was going on at his site and why the he** was he allowing it to go on.

As I said in a previous post, POSOM is probably running in terror from the A right now...this is exactly the type of situation that can get his administrative credential permanently revoked by the state.


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> Exactly. That is why I recommended the meeting.
> 
> And if the WW is there he can just get in his car and leave not wanting to violate the RO.
> 
> It is way too early for any decision on whether he wants to R or D.
> 
> Right now his priority is him, his kids and his attorney!
> 
> HM


Uh oh
Happyman likes an attorney.
Hell just froze over


----------



## GusPolinski

warlock07 said:


> dadof2, what do you want now ?
> 
> Would your R under the right circumstances ?
> 
> Today is a good day. She contacted you when she was in shock or scared about the situation. She will regroup. Currently, the request for counseling and the apologies are just stalling techniques.. So be prepared for backlash too


No way, at least not for me. Months of adultery. Plenty of denying, lying, gaslighting, blame-shifting, and deflection. WAW. RO used as a legal tactic. Slander/libel very likely. No display or remorse, just regret over the mess that she's made for herself.

Sorry, but no.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Well I think my plan for exposing to her parents isn't necessary anymore. I got a random text from her mom this morning for the first time in weeks saying "Please be open to what is about to happen."
> 
> Then I get a call from STBX. First time we've spoken in 2 months. I grab my recorder and answer the call. Right off the bat she asks if I would like to get together with her and the kids for dinner tonight. I told her I don't think that's a good idea. She goes on to say that she has been thinking a lot and really misses having the kids everyday. She then asks if I would be open to returning to marriage counseling. I say no. Then we talk for about 20 mins and I tell her how much what she did hurt me, but that I am getting through it and am becoming happier in my new life each day. I asked her if OM dumped her and that's why she's crawling back and she said it's not about that. I also told her that with all of her lies and manipulation in the last few months that a 20 minute "I'm sorry" phone call is not going to work.
> 
> I told her that we need to let the court system work and keep the status quo, and I politely hung up.
> 
> She texted me 5 mins later asking to please consider counseling with her. I did not respond.
> 
> I assume she got served and saw that I am not playing around. We sent the Request for Admissions right off the bat and it listed 27 statements about her affair, irresponsibility with kids, and her prescription abuse. I knew it would scare her, but I had no idea she would react this fast.
> 
> Thanks so much to all the guys here on the forum who have helped me prepare for this point. I could literally feel the power shifting through the phone. Now I call the shots and things are on my terms. It has been a rough few months and I've spent a good bit of money on lawyers and PI's but this is what I was going for. We now hold all the cards for negotiations. She is weak and will be agreeable to almost anything right now.
> 
> My lawyer is working on a script and I will call STBX back in a few days with some options, all favorable to me. Then we will see how "sorry" she really is.


Well, it's going on 6 hours since dadof2 posted this, and my erection continues unabated. At what point should I see a doctor?

Bandit, how're you doing?


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Being that I don't have the children tonight, I fully expect MIL to try to ask me to consider taking STBX back. I may drive over to their house (about an hour away) and sit them both down and tell them everything. I am sure she is only trickle truthing them.
> 
> Once they hear everything they will probably back off of STBX's bandwagon for a little bit.


I hope, by the way, that you're referring to your FIL and MIL when you say "both of them". Don't violate the RO by going anywhere near your WW.


----------



## dadof2

Thanks boys, I have been riding high all day.

I realize this is the first strike I've connected on and she is dazed. I fully expect her tone to change in the coming days as many of you have mentioned. I am doing my best to stay cool and indifferent. Like I told her earlier, you aint gonna make one sappy phone call and get me to forget all this BS.

I don't think I am going to meet her parents face to face, but if MIL starts pestering me with meme's about love and marriage like she used to, I am going to ask her to stop. I will tell her I am not contacting STBX as stated in the RO. If MIL wants to talk she can call me herself, and I will ask her to tell the story she has heard then I will fill in the blanks for her.

STBX has still shown no remorse for the affair, she just kept saying today that she thinks our kids need us to be together. Everytime I brought up OM she got silent. I'm sure she thinks her phone is bugged along with every room of her house. Like my old football coach used to say, she "doesn't know her assh*le from her elbow right now."


----------



## thatbpguy

I agree.

Your stbxw is dazed and is having to confront herself for the first time. But she will get her second wind back.

As to the inlaws, let them come to you but be gracious with them and burn no bridges.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Your stbxw is dazed and is having to confront herself for the first time. But she will get her second wind back."

This is possible...but I doubt it.

I'm sure fantasyland looks a lot less appealing to both POS and OP's WW from the perspective of being potentially jobless (and with few chances of finding another job in the career field) and maybe even homeless since it would impact BOTH of them...and I'll bet the idea of being in this situation with WW's children to provide for was just SO ATTRACTIVE to POS.

I'd bet money that OP's WW is desperate and terrified right now...she probably feels like she is floating in space off the edge of a cliff.


----------



## WyshIknew

Dyokemm said:


> "Your stbxw is dazed and is having to confront herself for the first time. But she will get her second wind back."
> 
> This is possible...but I doubt it.
> 
> I'm sure fantasyland looks a lot less appealing to both POS and OP's WW from the perspective of being potentially jobless (and with few chances of finding another job in the career field) and maybe even homeless since it would impact BOTH of them...and I'll bet the idea of being in this situation with WW's children to provide for was just SO ATTRACTIVE to POS.
> 
> I'd bet money that OP's WW is desperate and terrified right now...she probably feels like she is floating in space off the edge of a cliff.


And I wouldn't mind betting that her parents are laying in to her too.


----------



## tom67

she probably feels like she is floating in space off the edge of a cliff.
She is probably high as a kite with the meds and wine.


----------



## honcho

Mine thought I had her phone bugged, listening and tracking devices everywhere, basically more technology than James Bond I knew so much of what she thought she was getting away with. 

Her silence about the OM is not uncommon as they believe in there own heads its seems that as long as they don’t admit, you will never know. Didn’t say it made sense it just seems to be that way.


----------



## Dyokemm

"And I wouldn't mind betting that her parents are laying in to her too."

I agree...I think they are telling her she better get her head out of her a** and save her family before it is utterly destroyed.

I think MIL's text was a sign that they are trying to grease the wheels on R...it is how they are trying to help/support her now that her life has blown up.


----------



## warlock07

She thinks that you have no idea about OM ?


----------



## Augusto

You know what? Go for the throat! Tell her it is over and she will have to live the rest of her life knowing that you will move on after the divorce is final and will meet someone new and possibly remarry. Also tell her she will have to get used to the idea of you making love to a new spouse who has you all to herself for the rest of her life. If she feels it too gut wrenching for her to handle, Remind her that is just a possibility. As yours was real and you had to live through it and endure it. Perhaps that will send the message that it is not only over but you plan to upgrade in the future when it comes to a spouse.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Augusto said:


> You know what? Go for the throat! Tell her it is over and she will have to live the rest of her life knowing that you will move on after the divorce is final and will meet someone new and possibly remarry. Also tell her she will have to get used to the idea of you making love to a new spouse who has you all to herself for the rest of her life. If she feels it too gut wrenching for her to handle, Remind her that is just a possibility. As yours was real and you had to live through it and endure it. Perhaps that will send the message that it is not only over but you plan to upgrade in the future when it comes to a spouse.


Waste of time. She has yet to show the slightest awareness of what she has done to him. Doing this now will accomplish nothing, she just won't get it.


----------



## Augusto

Nucking Futs said:


> Waste of time. She has yet to show the slightest awareness of what she has done to him. Doing this now will accomplish nothing, she just won't get it.



not true....what will she say in 5 years?


----------



## GusPolinski

Augusto said:


> not true....what will she say in 5 years?


Who cares?!? She'll be someone else's problem much sooner than that anyway.


----------



## jim123

dadof2 said:


> Thanks boys, I have been riding high all day.
> 
> I realize this is the first strike I've connected on and she is dazed. I fully expect her tone to change in the coming days as many of you have mentioned. I am doing my best to stay cool and indifferent. Like I told her earlier, you aint gonna make one sappy phone call and get me to forget all this BS.
> 
> I don't think I am going to meet her parents face to face, but if MIL starts pestering me with meme's about love and marriage like she used to, I am going to ask her to stop. I will tell her I am not contacting STBX as stated in the RO. If MIL wants to talk she can call me herself, and I will ask her to tell the story she has heard then I will fill in the blanks for her.
> 
> STBX has still shown no remorse for the affair, she just kept saying today that she thinks our kids need us to be together. Everytime I brought up OM she got silent. I'm sure she thinks her phone is bugged along with every room of her house. Like my old football coach used to say, she "doesn't know her assh*le from her elbow right now."


Your first order of business is the RO. Tell her you talk to your attorney and you can not go due to the RO.

Focus only on the RO nothing else. Tell her how much it hurt you that she did that. Ask her why.

What you want is for her to say in a text or email that the RO was false. When you get that, take it to your attorney.

Filing a false RO is a big deal. In some states you can go to jail for up to a year for filing a false RO.

Now you have a big chip. 

She will have to leave her job anyway. I would tell her I will not file for the false RO if she files against OM and the school district for sexual harassment.


----------



## GusPolinski

jim123 said:


> Your first order of business is the RO. Tell her you talk to your attorney and you can not go due to the RO.
> 
> Focus only on the RO nothing else. Tell her how much it hurt you that she did that. Ask her why.
> 
> What you want is for her to say in a text or email that the RO was false. When you get that, take it to your attorney.
> 
> Filing a false RO is a big deal. In some states you can go to jail for up to a year for filing a false RO.
> 
> Now you have a big chip.
> 
> She will have to leave her job anyway. I would tell her I will not file for the false RO if she files against OM and the school district for sexual harassment.


As long as OP is using a VAR to record his conversations w/ his WW, he won't need for her to say or send anything via any other means (unless he can get her on video), as whatever lame explanation she gives will be much more damning in her own voice than it will be in an e-mail or text message.

And who cares what she does w/ her job, OM, and/or the school district? OP is on the "D Train", baby!


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> As long as OP is using a VAR to record his conversations w/ his WW, he won't need for her to say or send anything via any other means (unless he can get her on video), as whatever lame explanation she gives will be much more damning in her own voice than it will be in an e-mail or text message.
> 
> And who cares what she does w/ her job, OM, and/or the school district? OP is on the "D Train", baby!


:iagree:
I would still give the in-laws a synopsis of what went down.
And then tell them to tell her "I hope it was worth it."


----------



## jim123

GusPolinski said:


> As long as OP is using a VAR to record his conversations w/ his WW, he won't need for her to say or send anything via any other means (unless he can get her on video), as whatever lame explanation she gives will be much more damning in her own voice than it will be in an e-mail or text message.
> 
> And who cares what she does w/ her job, OM, and/or the school district? OP is on the "D Train", baby!


Is he in a state where he can use the recorder in court? I would get it in writing anyway.

The RO must go no matter what. He can not meet with her as long as it is in force.

She went over the top with the RO and can not be trusted. Do not make a mistake and trust her now.


----------



## GusPolinski

Oh, I agree. But her lawyer isn't going to let her send anything in writing stating that the RO was essentially employed as nothing more than a legal tactic, as that may land the both of them (WW and WW's lawyer) in some hot water w/ the judge that signed off on it.

And yes... if I remember correctly, OP is in a state w/ "one-party consent" laws. dadof2, if that's not the case, please feel free to say so. Either way, I'm sure that his lawyer w/ advise him w/ respect to the best strategy for getting the RO lifted. 

Honestly, though, I'd only want it lifted out of principle, as I'd have no plans to meet w/ her in person before signing the final divorce agreement, and then only as required.


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Oh, I agree. But her lawyer isn't going to let her send anything in writing stating that the RO was essentially employed as nothing more than a legal tactic, as that may land the both of them (WW and WW's lawyer) in some hot water w/ the judge that signed off on it.
> 
> And yes... if I remember correctly, OP is in a state w/ "one-party consent" laws. dadof2, if that's not the case, please feel free to say so. Either way, I'm sure that his lawyer w/ advise him w/ respect to the best strategy for getting the RO lifted.
> 
> Honestly, though, I'd only want it lifted out of principle, as I'd have no plans to meet w/ her in person before signing the final divorce agreement, and then only as required.


I knew a guy who lost his job because of an ro even though it was false.
P!sses me off!!!


----------



## jim123

GusPolinski said:


> Oh, I agree. But her lawyer isn't going to let her send anything in writing stating that the RO was essentially employed as nothing more than a legal tactic, as that may land the both of them (WW and WW's lawyer) in some hot water w/ the judge that signed off on it.
> 
> And yes... if I remember correctly, OP is in a state w/ "one-party consent" laws. dadof2, if that's not the case, please feel free to say so. Either way, I'm sure that his lawyer w/ advise him w/ respect to the best strategy for getting the RO lifted.
> 
> Honestly, though, I'd only want it lifted out of principle, as I'd have no plans to meet w/ her in person before signing the final divorce agreement, and then only as required.


She will do it in the heat of the moment if he does it correctly, Say it hurts you more than anything, why did you do it.

You do not want it the RO lifted, you want it expunged. Th


----------



## adriana

jim123 said:


> Your first order of business is the RO. Tell her you talk to your attorney and you can not go due to the RO.
> 
> Focus only on the RO nothing else. Tell her how much it hurt you that she did that. Ask her why.
> 
> What you want is for her to say in a text or email that the RO was false. When you get that, take it to your attorney.
> 
> Filing a false RO is a big deal. In some states you can go to jail for up to a year for filing a false RO.
> 
> Now you have a big chip.
> 
> She will have to leave her job anyway. I would tell her I will not file for the false RO if she files against OM and the school district for sexual harassment.



Jim123, you must be looking at this forum as a board for your fiction writing exercises. :scratchhead:


----------



## honcho

Many times the RO never gets in front of a judge in a real hearing to become permanent. The petitioner voluntary dismisses it. They need not give any reason to the judge, just that they voluntarily dismiss and the judge signs off. 

Its part of the game, that way she can say she dismissed it to save him embarrassment or did it for the sake of kids and she looks like the brave soul trying to move on. The usual excuses so they don’t have to go to court and have it tossed out or face the consequenses of a judge telling her she had no basis to file it. 

It is one of the great flaws in the system as the ideal behind the law is valid and has merit yet every lawyer on the planet can abuse the rule so easily.


----------



## Just Joe

honcho said:


> Many times the RO never gets in front of a judge in a real hearing to become permanent. The petitioner voluntary dismisses it. They need not give any reason to the judge, just that they voluntarily dismiss and the judge signs off.
> 
> Its part of the game, that way she can say she dismissed it to save him embarrassment or did it for the sake of kids and she looks like the brave soul trying to move on. The usual excuses so they don’t have to go to court and have it tossed out or face the consequenses of a judge telling her she had no basis to file it.
> 
> It is one of the great flaws in the system as the ideal behind the law is valid and has merit yet every lawyer on the planet can abuse the rule so easily.


This is what I was thinking. Do you think he should ask her to get the restraining order removed or let it play out in the court in due time?


----------



## honcho

Well that is the trick since legally anyone who has a restraining order against them cant ask to other party to remove it. They must do so voluntarily according to the lawyers and legal system. 

It will cost a great deal of money to go to court and it comes down to he said/she said. Either way its not his decision.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Why does he need any more than the recording of the conversation he just had with her? She invited him to dinner with her and the kids and talked about R, clearly she's not afraid of him.


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

It seems likely that POSOM backed away from your WW due to pressure on his job. Would you like this confirmed?

As to R with your WW, well there is zero indication that your wife desires you emotionally or physically. Let's be frank: she has enjoyed getting it from the asst principal for longer that you realize. It is possible that they are still fvcking, although he is saying that they must end it before school starts. 

Is she hoping that he will change his mind?

To reinforce whatever has changed your WW's mind, you should expose further. Cheaterville is still the best way to ruin the affair. 

You are entirely correct in refusing MC. Your WW may drive to MC straight from having sexual intercourse with OM.

If you want any genuine R, your WW must feel that she has lost you. The RO is an insult. If she contacts you or comes close, call your lawyer and have her inform the police in writing. 

Your WW needs to remove the RO and show remorse before you give her the time of day.

Putting OM on Cheaterville will increase the chances that he will say and do hurtful things to your WW. His name should cause distaste, not bittersweet memories. Can you have R when and OM are meeting at school in Sept?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Chaparral

One reason she has not shown remorse or confessed to anything is her fear you are recording everything she says and that you can then use it against her.

At this point patience is your friend. See how things unfold in the next few days. Right now, there are many possible reasons for what is going on. Just be cool and careful. You should even view things with a possible trap in mind.


----------



## dadof2

Gonna try to hit most of your posts since my last post.

I do live in a one party consent state for recordings.

My atty says the recorded convo and recordings of her dropping kids off at my house is plenty of evidence that RO is false

I am not going to ask her to remove RO, going to see if judge signs my reconventional demand to remove it

She has not said anything about being sorry for what she has done, and I believe its because she is scared I am recording everything at that could be used as an admission of guilt against her

Still trying to figure out her parents. Her mom texted me last night a picture with a quote about love, marriage, etc. I ignored it. I believe all STBX is telling them is that she misses kids and wants back in. I will make sure they know everything

I am full steam ahead on the D train. If there is any slight chance of R, it will be after the divorce filing. I am not swayed by one 20 min phone call with fake remorse after being caught.

I have a lot of leverage now as we get closer to hearing. She has to respond to the request for admissions within 15 days of being served. She will probably ramp up the R talk to keep from having to answer and put the affair on record. I am not changing course until we get to the first hearing.


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> I will make sure they know everything


Why not just call them? Right now?


----------



## warlock07

Wht don't you ask MIL by what she means ? MIL is just sending you feelers to see how you are feeling. She will probably tell her daughter on how you are reacting. That means, she knows her daughter f*cked up and is trying to be a peace maker


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Gonna try to hit most of your posts since my last post.
> 
> I do live in a one party consent state for recordings.
> 
> My atty says the recorded convo and recordings of her dropping kids off at my house is plenty of evidence that RO is false
> 
> I am not going to ask her to remove RO, going to see if judge signs my reconventional demand to remove it
> 
> She has not said anything about being sorry for what she has done, and I believe its because she is scared I am recording everything at that could be used as an admission of guilt against her
> 
> Still trying to figure out her parents. Her mom texted me last night a picture with a quote about love, marriage, etc. I ignored it. I believe all STBX is telling them is that she misses kids and wants back in. I will make sure they know everything
> 
> I am full steam ahead on the D train. If there is any slight chance of R, it will be after the divorce filing. I am not swayed by one 20 min phone call with fake remorse after being caught.
> 
> I have a lot of leverage now as we get closer to hearing. She has to respond to the request for admissions within 15 days of being served. She will probably ramp up the R talk to keep from having to answer and put the affair on record. I am not changing course until we get to the first hearing.


:toast:

Oh, and about this...



> If there is any slight chance of R, it will be after the divorce filing.


The words "ironclad" and "pre-nup" come to mind.


----------



## tom67

Oh if you can find a picture of pos assistant principal and put him on cheaterville assuming he still has a job.
I know focus on you and the kids well being but I suggest for what he has done to make him regret he ever messed with your family.
Get "creative"


----------



## Nucking Futs

tom67 said:


> Oh if you can find a picture of pos assistant principal and put him on cheaterville assuming he still has a job.
> I know focus on you and the kids well being but I suggest for what he has done to make him regret he ever messed with your family.
> Get "creative"


Maybe say that he's an assistant principal at the maple street school for wayward administrators (or whatever the school is called) and so far the school hasn't done anything about it. Put up a picture of the school that you take yourself (so they can't get your post pulled on a copyright claim on the picture) and if the school contacts you tell them it's all true, you can prove it and you're waiting to see what action they take before you decide if you're going to leave it up there permanently.


----------



## karole

Be prepared, your wife's attorney can ask for an extension of time to file responses to the discovery - and he/she most likely will.


----------



## sandc

dadof2 said:


> Gonna try to hit most of your posts since my last post.
> 
> I do live in a one party consent state for recordings.
> 
> My atty says the recorded convo and recordings of her dropping kids off at my house is plenty of evidence that RO is false
> 
> I am not going to ask her to remove RO, going to see if judge signs my reconventional demand to remove it
> 
> She has not said anything about being sorry for what she has done, and I believe its because she is scared I am recording everything at that could be used as an admission of guilt against her
> 
> Still trying to figure out her parents. Her mom texted me last night a picture with a quote about love, marriage, etc. I ignored it. I believe all STBX is telling them is that she misses kids and wants back in. I will make sure they know everything
> 
> I am full steam ahead on the D train. If there is any slight chance of R, it will be after the divorce filing. I am not swayed by one 20 min phone call with fake remorse after being caught.
> 
> I have a lot of leverage now as we get closer to hearing. She has to respond to the request for admissions within 15 days of being served. She will probably ramp up the R talk to keep from having to answer and put the affair on record. I am not changing course until we get to the first hearing.


Do you have any idea how much man-love there is flowing out here in the TAMosphere? :smthumbup: Hell, woman-love too I'm sure.

You're making a lot of folks' day. Good work!


----------



## dadof2

STBX just texted me pics of my kids with her at the zoo. First pics she's sent me in months...IGNORED

Amazing how the tables have turned!


----------



## sandc

So she's not going to share pictures of the kids riding her boyfriend's quads?


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> STBX just texted me pics of my kids with her at the zoo. First pics she's sent me in months...IGNORED
> 
> Amazing how the tables have turned!


Yeah. So it begins. Ignore it.


----------



## 3putt

As many times as we've seen it play out, it's still amazing to see the script being followed to the letter.


----------



## Hicks

What I would do is constantly remind her and her parents that there is nothing for you to discuss with anyone until she ends her affair and becomes truthful.

This way the ball is in her court and you don't turn into the bad guy which will eventually happen if you ignore her.

By the way, you don't have to discuss anything with her after she ends her affair and becomes truthful.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> STBX just texted me pics of my kids with her at the zoo. First pics she's sent me in months...IGNORED
> 
> Amazing how the tables have turned!


Keep the pics but use Photoshop or something to cut her out and insert images of Heidi Klum instead. If you're going to look at a cheater, it might as well be a stunningly hot cheater!


----------



## lordmayhem

sandc said:


> Do you have any idea how much man-love there is flowing out here in the TAMosphere? :smthumbup: Hell, woman-love too I'm sure.
> 
> You're making a lot of folks' day. Good work!


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Indeed. His kung fu is strong.


----------



## lordmayhem

Just Joe said:


> I don't like the idea of her requesting removal of the restraining order. I would prefer the court do it. My reasoning is, if she asks it to be removed, it looks like the abuse/fear was legitimate, she just realizes she loves you/her family despite your abuse, feels you have gotten better. Many an abused wife has returned to their abuser. If the court removes it, it looks like she was full of sh1t all along, you never were an abuser. Just my opinion.


:iagree:

Having a judge throw out the protection order also prevents her from filing other false ones in the future. Because if she applies for another one, the judge will take into account that a previous one was thrown out when he or she takes a look at the records.

I know this because I get calls about this all the time. Some people think they can file frivolous protection orders, then later complain that they can't get one now because their other ones were thrown out.


----------



## 3putt

GusPolinski said:


> Keep the pics but use Photoshop or something to cut her out and insert images of Heidi Klum instead. If you're going to look at a cheater, it might as well be a stunningly hot cheater!


I love the idea, but let's not pick a known cheater to insert there in place of. He already has one of those in the pic.


----------



## GusPolinski

3putt said:


> I love the idea, but let's not pick a known cheater to insert there in place of. He already has one of those in the pic.


C'mon man, I was just trying to get a few laughs...


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Dadof2, just wondering how your own parents are reacting to this? I don't know who would have a harder time forgiving a cheating spouse, me or my mother/father.


----------



## dadof2

CASE_Sensitive said:


> Dadof2, just wondering how your own parents are reacting to this? I don't know who would have a harder time forgiving a cheating spouse, me or my mother/father.


My parents have been amazing actually. It has brought us closer together if that makes any sense. My dad and I work together, he is my boss, and he has been very flexible with me at work and I have been spending a lot of time with the kids over at their house.

My mom is very quiet and easy going, and even she seems like she could never forgive STBX. She is worried about the kids growing up and knowing what their mom did.

I am stopping by Lowe's today on the way home to get new deadbolts for the house. I should have done it a long time ago, but now that STBX is trying to worm her way back I wouldn't put it past her to visit the house when I'm at work.


----------



## harrybrown

Glad you are doing better after her first hit on you from her cheating.

Do you think you ever really knew her now that you know what she is really like?

In the long run, she is doing you a favor by letting you know what she is like now and not finding out after many many years.

Hope you keep doing better and better.

When your Dad talked to the school board, what was the result?


----------



## dadof2

harrybrown said:


> Glad you are doing better after her first hit on you from her cheating.
> 
> Do you think you ever really knew her now that you know what she is really like?
> 
> *In the long run, she is doing you a favor by letting you know what she is like now and not finding out after many many years.*
> 
> Hope you keep doing better and better.
> 
> When your Dad talked to the school board, what was the result?



I agree, as bad as this ordeal has been, at least I found out relatively early. I couldn't imagine having this happen after a 20+ year marriage.

Yes I do question who she really is. This shows me that nothing is safe and that someone you think you know better than yourself can still lead a whole other life than what you think she has.

Anytime I feel nostalgic I look at the screenshots the PI sent me of her and my kids on the 4 wheeler with OM and it goes away pretty quick.

As far as the school board, I haven't heard anything from them. I don't know where that went yet, my dad hasn't heard back from his contact and I have no way of knowing if OM has been called in yet. Based on STBX's reaction yesterday, I assume she either got my response from her lawyer or OM got called in by the principal. I asked her yesterday on the phone why she is calling me, and she just said because she misses the kids. Something definitely happened because she has changed her tune quick.


----------



## sandc

dadof2 said:


> I agree, as bad as this ordeal has been, at least I found out relatively early. I couldn't imagine having this happen after a 20+ year marriage.
> 
> Yes I do question who she really is. This shows me that nothing is safe and that someone you think you know better than yourself can still lead a whole other life than what you think she has.
> 
> Anytime I feel nostalgic I look at the screenshots the PI sent me of *her and my kids on the 4 wheeler with OM *and it goes away pretty quick.


And THAT RIGHT THERE is what really pisses me off about this whole thing. She's basically just trying to cut you out of her and your kids' life and replace you with him. 

So hopefully she now sees what a pnssy this guy really is. So much for soulmates. They are soulmates until his job is at risk and then all of a sudden... not so much soulmates. She was nothing more to him than just a little on the side.


----------



## sandc

The ONLY thing that would change her tune that quick is OM.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> I agree, as bad as this ordeal has been, at least I found out relatively early. I couldn't imagine having this happen after a 20+ year marriage.
> 
> Yes I do question who she really is. This shows me that nothing is safe and that someone you think you know better than yourself can still lead a whole other life than what you think she has.
> 
> Anytime I feel nostalgic I look at the screenshots the PI sent me of her and my kids on the 4 wheeler with OM and it goes away pretty quick.
> 
> As far as the school board, I haven't heard anything from them. I don't know where that went yet, my dad hasn't heard back from his contact and I have no way of knowing if OM has been called in yet. Based on STBX's reaction yesterday, I assume she either got my response from her lawyer or OM got called in by the principal. I asked her yesterday on the phone why she is calling me, and she just said because she misses the kids. Something definitely happened because she has changed her tune quick.


:iagree::iagree:
Stay cool as a cucumber...


----------



## Hicks

The statistics say the odd turn around and wanting to get back togehter is becuase the OM threw her under the bus.


----------



## Ripper

She didn't see this coming. OP, just slipped in and carpet bombed her fantasy land.


----------



## GusPolinski

Hicks said:


> The statistics say the odd turn around and wanting to get back togehter is becuase the OM threw her under the bus.


No doubt. Either way, any thoughts of reconciliation on OP's part should probably be accompanied by an immediate, self-inflicted punch to the d*ck.


----------



## bandit.45

3putt said:


> I love the idea, but let's not pick a known cheater to insert there in place of. He already has one of those in the pic.


Yeah, didn't Klum cheat on Seal? Isn't that why they are divorcing?


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah, didn't Klum cheat on Seal? Isn't that why they are divorcing?


Yep. With her bodyguard. I guess he was guarding that sh*t pretty closely.


----------



## bandit.45

GusPolinski said:


> Yep. With her bodyguard. I guess he was guarding that sh*t pretty closely.


We'll, I think she left her first husband for Seal, so Mr. Seal is getting some Karma payback. But it won't be long before he has another young hottie on his arm. These beautiful people never stay lonely for long.


----------



## 3putt

bandit.45 said:


> We'll, I think she left her first husband for Seal, so Mr. Seal is getting some Karma payback. But it won't be long before he has another young hottie on his arm. *These beautiful people never stay lonely for long.*


Or faithful.


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> We'll, I think she left her first husband for Seal, so Mr. Seal is getting some Karma payback. But it won't be long before he has another young hottie on his arm. These beautiful people never stay lonely for long.





3putt said:


> Or faithful.


This is because, at the end of the day, each of these people is far more committed to their own image, career, wealth, and whatever fleeting, personal gratification that they can obtain (because hey, they deserve it) than they are to each other, their families, etc.

Robin Thicke, anyone?


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Back on topic, lets not forget OM and WW are still working together. OP may want to remind STBXW's parents if they are still persisting with the fantasy of rug sweeping away the whole affair.


----------



## dadof2

CASE_Sensitive said:


> Back on topic, lets not forget OM and WW are still working together. OP may want to remind STBXW's parents if they are still persisting with the fantasy of rug sweeping away the whole affair.


I plan on emailing her parents this evening, telling them that I cant call them due to the RO (true) but if they would like to discuss things they are welcome to call me and I would be glad to talk to them.

If they decide to call I will be respectful but firm in informing them of STBX's activities the last few months. I will also remind them that I am not the abusive monster that she made me out to be.

I honestly am not expecting much, but it will finally get me out from under the weight of them not knowing the full story.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Why is it always in the future? Tomorrow, this evening, whatever.... Why not email them the details. Email that they can call and THEN you'll tell them? This would all go a lot faster if you stopped dragging your feet don't you think?


----------



## dadof2

WorkingOnMe said:


> Why is it always in the future? Tomorrow, this evening, whatever.... Why not email them the details. Email that they can call and THEN you'll tell them? This would all go a lot faster if you stopped dragging your feet don't you think?


I have been following my attorney's advice through this entire process. So far they have hit on every hand. Sometimes it's not at the pace I would like but I defer to their experience. In this case a detailed email could be construed as harassment and they could nail me on the restraining order. So I have to be careful and creative on every step.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> I have been following my attorney's advice through this entire process. So far they have hit on every hand. Sometimes it's not at the pace I would like but I defer to their experience. In this case a detailed email could be construed as harassment and they could nail me on the restraining order. So I have to be careful and creative on every step.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I thought it was just concerning your w.
You can't contact the inlaws? That's a broad spectrum order..:scratchhead:


----------



## honcho

Most RO’s state that you basically cant talk the petitioners family, friends, co-workers because it may be construed as harassment to the petitioner. They are incredibly broad and general for the most part which makes them just that much more difficult to do things.


----------



## tom67

honcho said:


> Most RO’s state that you basically cant talk the petitioners family, friends, co-workers because it may be construed as harassment to the petitioner. They are incredibly broad and general for the most part which makes them just that much more difficult to do things.


Sorry thanks


----------



## dadof2

honcho said:


> Most RO’s state that you basically cant talk the petitioners family, friends, co-workers because it may be construed as harassment to the petitioner. They are incredibly broad and general for the most part which makes them just that much more difficult to do things.


Yep. Mine specifically states that I cannot contact her relatives on the telephone. It is much more broad about STBX. MIL texted me yesterday and I didn't respond so I will email her and make it clear that I cannot call her but she can call me of she wants to talk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

dadof2 said:


> STBX just texted me pics of my kids with her at the zoo. First pics she's sent me in months...IGNORED
> 
> Amazing how the tables have turned!


You should have texted back to her a picture of her and the OM together from your PI.

Really let her crap her pants!!!

Maybe a group text to her and your inlaws......

No other response is needed.


----------



## 3putt

happyman64 said:


> You should have texted back to her a picture of her and the OM together from your PI.
> 
> Really let her crap her pants!!!
> 
> Maybe a group text to her and your inlaws......
> 
> No other response is needed.


I really like this. Give her just a taste of what you have. It will send her mind and paranoia into a tailspin.


----------



## BWBill

_If they decide to call I will be respectful but firm in informing them of STBX's activities the last few months._

This is actually a very good time to tell them.

It puts your stbx in the position of acknowledging the affair or of lying. Lying is a poor way to start reconciliation (if that is what she really wants).

Be sure to name the posom. If she does start dating him again in the future then the truth will be self evident.

Also, your kids will find out the truth someday. Too many people know already.


----------



## happyman64

BWBill said:


> _If they decide to call I will be respectful but firm in informing them of STBX's activities the last few months._
> 
> This is actually a very good time to tell them.
> 
> It puts your stbx in the position of acknowledging the affair or of lying. Lying is a poor way to start reconciliation (if that is what she really wants).
> 
> Be sure to name the posom. If she does start dating him again in the future then the truth will be self evident.
> 
> Also, your kids will find out the truth someday. Too many people know already.


I believe they most likely know who the POSOM is.

Maybe not the level of the relationship or the cheating.

But they know.

Then again his spouse has shown by filing a false RO just how much a liar she is and the level of deceit she will go to.


----------



## 3putt

happyman64 said:


> I believe they most likely know who the POSOM is.
> 
> Maybe not the level of the relationship or the cheating.
> 
> But they know.
> 
> Then again his spouse has shown by filing a false RO just how much a liar she is and the level of deceit she will go to.


Let's also not forget drawing his children into this as well.

This woman just makes my blood boil. I can't even imagine how Do2 has kept an even head through this.

But he has my respect. That's for damned sure.


----------



## GusPolinski

3putt said:


> Let's also not forget drawing his children into this as well.
> 
> This woman just makes my blood boil. I can't even imagine how Do2 has kept an even head through this.
> 
> *But he has my respect. That's for damned sure.*


Word.


----------



## jim123

adriana said:


> Jim123, you must be looking at this forum as a board for your fiction writing exercises. :scratchhead:


Based on a true story. This is for someone who has a has a very high power attorney. It did not involve a school.


----------



## murphy5

if there is a restraining order, why would you want to email them?????? Don't do it!


----------



## LongWalk

Your wife's decision to seek an RO maybe partially based on her rewrite of who you became once she started cheating. She didn't want to think of herself as an adulteress. It felt okay to be a wronged woman, seeking an escape from an abusive husband. Perhaps she even fantasized that you would threaten her and POSOM would appear and control you with his Brazilian jujitsu moves. Later after the rescue he would propose marriage, sweeping you in the dustbin for discards.

Now this fantasy romance is crumbling. 

You are not keen on being plan B.
Let her know by ending the chit chat phone calls. Do not engage her in any conversation as long she does not rescind the RO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

sandc said:


> And THAT RIGHT THERE is what really pisses me off about this whole thing. She's basically just trying to cut you out of her and your kids' life and replace you with him.


:iagree:

That's usually the case with affair fantasies. OM simply slides right in, BH gracefully bows out, becomes friends with OM and remains friends with WW, and the children fall in love with OM. And everyone is so happy for them that they found each other, while they ride off into the sunset. 

And so it goes in affairland where everything is lollipops and rainbows.

It makes me sick. Too bad there's no barf icon here.


----------



## GusPolinski

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> That's usually the case with affair fantasies. OM simply slides right in, BH gracefully bows out, becomes friends with OM and remains friends with WW, and the children fall in love with OM. And everyone is so happy for them that they found each other, while they ride off into the sunset.
> 
> And so it goes in affairland where everything is lollipops and rainbows.
> 
> *It makes me sick. Too bad there's no barf icon here.*


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


>


I remember that one as Peter would say "Holy Crap"


----------



## dadof2

I sent a brief email to the in-laws last night explaining to them that due to the RO I could not call them. I said I would be open to a conversation about our situation but they would have to call me.

MIL called me this morning and after we exchanged general pleasantries, I began telling her what I knew. I talked for 15 minutes and she literally didn't say a word. I told her that STBX has been lying all along and is in a relationship with OM. I told her that she has been taking our kids to his house, and that she spends most of her free time there. 

Once I got to a stopping point, she just said "Thank you for talking to me, have a good day." And she hung up.

I think she was stunned. I'm sure she may have had feelings that STBX was up to something, but didn't want to believe it. I told her I had mountains of evidence and that she will have to go on record about her affair and neglect of children. I told her that STBX is messing with people's lives and she just can't run away like nothing happened.

I have the kids all weekend, so I'm sure STBX will have a rough few days. Who knows where this will go, I don't expect to hear anything from them for a while.


----------



## farsidejunky

Wish I could like it more than once!


----------



## seeking sanity

dadof2 said:


> I sent a brief email to the in-laws last night explaining to them that due to the RO I could not call them. I said I would be open to a conversation about our situation but they would have to call me.
> 
> MIL called me this morning and after we exchanged general pleasantries, I began telling her what I knew. I talked for 15 minutes and she literally didn't say a word. I told her that STBX has been lying all along and is in a relationship with OM. I told her that she has been taking our kids to his house, and that she spends most of her free time there.
> 
> Once I got to a stopping point, she just said "Thank you for talking to me, have a good day." And she hung up.
> 
> I think she was stunned. I'm sure she may have had feelings that STBX was up to something, but didn't want to believe it. I told her I had mountains of evidence and that she will have to go on record about her affair and neglect of children. I told her that STBX is messing with people's lives and she just can't run away like nothing happened.
> 
> I have the kids all weekend, so I'm sure STBX will have a rough few days. Who knows where this will go, I don't expect to hear anything from them for a while.


I wouldn't read into her response that she was stunned. She very likely will back channel to STBXW. I'd would keep your guard up. I'd personally be really hurt that she called you then didn't give any indication of her feelings on what it going on. It's a red flag.


----------



## dadof2

seeking sanity said:


> I wouldn't read into her response that she was stunned. *She very likely will back channel to STBXW. I'd would keep your guard up.* I'd personally be really hurt that she called you then didn't give any indication of her feelings on what it going on. It's a red flag.


I am sure that once our conversation ended she immediately called her daughter.

I am definitely keeping my guard up, I have learned to expect the unexpected and that I will never get the reaction that I assume I will get. I keep my VAR on me 24/7 in case of a phone call or run in with anyone associated with STBX.


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> I am sure that once our conversation ended she immediately called her daughter.
> 
> I am definitely keeping my guard up, I have learned to expect the unexpected and that I will never get the reaction that I assume I will get. I keep my VAR on me 24/7 in case of a phone call or run in with anyone associated with STBX.


If I were you, I would not answer any phone calls or texts from WW or her family right when they come through. Let the calls go to voicemail. Don't act like you are sitting there waiting for a call from them/her.


----------



## sandc

Expect fire and venom from your STBX now. You'll get the "you had no right" speech. I'm disappointed in her mother's reaction but not surprised. I don't know if she was stunned, didn't believe you, or disappointed that you know as much about the affair as you do.


----------



## SF-FAN

dadof2 said:


> I agree, as bad as this ordeal has been, at least I found out relatively early. I couldn't imagine having this happen after a 20+ year marriage.
> 
> Yes I do question who she really is. This shows me that nothing is safe and that someone you think you know better than yourself can still lead a whole other life than what you think she has.
> 
> Anytime I feel nostalgic I look at the screenshots the PI sent me of her and my kids on the 4 wheeler with OM and it goes away pretty quick.
> 
> As far as the school board, I haven't heard anything from them. I don't know where that went yet, my dad hasn't heard back from his contact and I have no way of knowing if OM has been called in yet. Based on STBX's reaction yesterday, I assume she either got my response from her lawyer or OM got called in by the principal. I asked her yesterday on the phone why she is calling me, and *she just said because she misses the kids.* Something definitely happened because she has changed her tune quick.


But nothing about missing you or being sorry for what she put you through. Amazing how these WS hardly ever take responsibility for the pain they caused. SMH!


----------



## GusPolinski

sandc said:


> Expect fire and venom from your STBX now. You'll get the "you had no right" speech. I'm disappointed in her mother's reaction but not surprised. I don't know if she was stunned, didn't believe you, or disappointed that you know as much about the affair as you do.


This is probably correct. My response (assuming that I'd choose to even respond), upon being hit w/ the "you had no right" speech, would be to say, "In light of the baseless RO that you filed against me, I have every right to defend myself against your lies, and if that means telling the unmitigated truth to whomever may have bought into your bullsh*t, then so be it."

And -- again, assuming that I'd even bother w/ a response in the first place -- I'd probably chase ^this w/ any combination of "Go f*ck yourself", "eat sh*t", and "die".

But that's just me. :smthumbup:


----------



## GusPolinski

Just had another thought about the pics from the zoo... Were they "group selfies" that your STBX took of herself w/ the kids? If not, who took the pics?

Here is the reason that I ask... OM may have very well been there at the zoo w/ them, either just out of frame or taking the pics himself.


----------



## turnera

You had no right!
I was going to come back to you but not now that you've done this!
You'll never see your kids again!
My mom thinks you're crazy and this confirmed it for her!
We're all laughing at how pathetic you are now!
I told my lawyer and you'd better look out!

What else am I missing, guys?


----------



## lordmayhem

dadof2 said:


> I am sure that once our conversation ended she immediately called her daughter.
> 
> I am definitely keeping my guard up, I have learned to expect the unexpected and that I will never get the reaction that I assume I will get. I keep my VAR on me 24/7 in case of a phone call or run in with anyone associated with STBX.


Don't expect too much from this. In most cases, blood is thicker than water. Naturally, she will believe her daughter over you, because that's her daughter. And even then, your WW has been demonizing you to everyone. There's a remote possibility that they even believe you. However, they may hate what their daughter has done, but when push comes to shove, they WILL support their daughter.

I too thought that I had the support of my ex-wife's family. They couldn't understand what she was doing. But in the end, they were just as nasty as she was.

The important thing is that you got to tell your side of the story, whether they believe you or not is their problem. That should be part of your closure.


----------



## Racer

Dadof2 might have the right take on this from the MIL. I remember the stunned silence from my MIL. Basically my WW had been going on and on about falling out of love with me, being abandoned and alone, blah, blah… all her reasons we were divorcing. I told her about the condom discovery, the affairs, the going out and leaving me with the kids all the time, the binge drinking, the several thousand texts messages, the hours of phone calls, and the dates. Essentially, I turned her perception and the world in which she thought she knew inside out.

The “you should take her back” noise stopped. And the calls from her parents to her increased tenfold while this wound its way through their family. 

Expect venom from you WW. You ruined her image she was trying to maintain. If she’s like mine, she’s pissed that everyone sees her as the bad guy and pities me instead. She’s spent considerable time painting a totally different picture for them. And in 15 minutes, you burned that portrait to show the mirror behind.


----------



## thatbpguy

turnera said:


> You had no right!
> I was going to come back to you but not now that you've done this!
> You'll never see your kids again!
> My mom thinks you're crazy and this confirmed it for her!
> We're all laughing at how pathetic you are now!
> I told my lawyer and you'd better look out!
> 
> What else am I missing, guys?


Maybe, "I'm sorry".


----------



## GusPolinski

turnera said:


> You had no right!
> I was going to come back to you but not now that you've done this!
> You'll never see your kids again!
> My mom thinks you're crazy and this confirmed it for her!
> We're all laughing at how pathetic you are now!
> I told my lawyer and you'd better look out!
> 
> What else am I missing, guys?


Not seeing any penis or sex comparisons. Just saying.


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> I am sure that once our conversation ended she immediately called her daughter.
> 
> I am definitely keeping my guard up, I have learned to expect the unexpected and that I will never get the reaction that I assume I will get. I keep my VAR on me 24/7 in case of a phone call or run in with anyone associated with STBX.


If she ever calls you again, get her to talk first. You had a chance to find out some info from her and did not take advantage of that. It also sounds like you spilled the beans about our strategy. 

It will be interesting to see what happens next.


----------



## EleGirl

turnera said:


> You had no right!
> I was going to come back to you but not now that you've done this!
> You'll never see your kids again!
> My mom thinks you're crazy and this confirmed it for her!
> We're all laughing at how pathetic you are now!
> I told my lawyer and you'd better look out!
> 
> What else am I missing, guys?


What's missing is that the MIL made a recording of his 15 minute attack on the his wife. That is now being sent to the attorney to determine if it can be used for any purpose.

{Just concerned about strategy... and how they can use things against him.}


----------



## dadof2

EleGirl said:


> What's missing is that the MIL made a recording of his 15 minute attack on the his wife. That is now being sent to the attorney to determine if it can be used for any purpose.
> 
> {Just concerned about strategy... and how they can use things against him.}


I don't think I revealed my strategy too much, everything I said she was doing is in the response that we filed. I actually didn't tell her everything that was in it.

I doubt MIL recorded the call, but I did. I have played it back several times and I was very calm and not threatening. I was just laying out facts. If it was recorded by them, they can try to spin it but I didn't give them much ammo.


----------



## karole

Based on what Do2 told us, it certainly doesn't sound like an "attack." It sounds as if he merely stated fact and more or less didn't state anything that isn't in his response to the divorce petition.


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> I don't think I revealed my strategy too much, everything I said she was doing is in the response that we filed. I actually didn't tell her everything that was in it.
> 
> I doubt MIL recorded the call, but I did. I have played it back several times and I was very calm and not threatening. I was just laying out facts. If it was recorded by them, they can try to spin it but I didn't give them much ammo.


You said that you talked for 15 minutes about this topic. So does it take 15 minutes to read the portion of your response that covers these topics? I doubt it. So what did you say that fleshed it out to last that long?

My advice is to not talk to the in laws again. I think that a recording of your part of that call could be used as proof of your verbally attacking your wife. It could validate the need for the RO. 

I know that you don't think so. But I'll bet that your attorney would not be happy if she knew what you did.


----------



## EleGirl

tdwal said:


> You know I agree with you that this could be used by her attorney against him but if I caught even a whiff of that happening, every word would show up on Cheaterville with pictures. I would then send the link to everybody she knew including all the teachers, the principal, school board, everybody. I would go nuclear. In fact I would do it like WranglerMan and send out leaflets delivered by PI's. It would end up being on more than just the court record.


Keep in mind that Dadof2 has no proof that she cheated before filing for divorce. He has no proof that she's in a sexual relationship at this time. He could not back up what he claims cause he does not have the proof... so it's slander.

If she loses her job, he will be paying thousands more in support for a long time. She might have to go to another town to get a replacement job and a judge might very well give her permission to move with the children.

This is why his attorney advised him not to do these things.


----------



## warlock07

dadof2 said:


> STBX just texted me pics of my kids with her at the zoo. First pics she's sent me in months...IGNORED
> 
> Amazing how the tables have turned!


Lawyers orders probably


----------



## dadof2

EleGirl said:


> Keep in mind that Dadof2 has no proof that she cheated before filing for divorce. He has no proof that she's in a sexual relationship at this time. He could not back up what he claims cause he does not have the proof... so it's slander.
> 
> If she loses her job, he will be paying thousands more in support for a long time. She might have to go to another town to get a replacement job and a judge might very well give her permission to move with the children.
> 
> This is why his attorney advised him not to do these things.


Everything I told her mother I can back up with proof. I made no threats, just stated the facts. It lasted 15 mins because I repeated a lot of things, especially in regards to our children. We sent her 20 pages in our response so it could take that long to read if I had read it verbatim.


----------



## GusPolinski

tdwal said:


> I didn't say I would not get in trouble for it but I would do it. The damage will have been done. Let her sue for slander, it will make it even more public. It is so difficult to prove slander that he has nothing to worry about.
> 
> Listen Ele, he is screwed anyway you look at it. The courts are so one sided he is screwed. She took the first strike with lying for the RO.


Uhhh... Maybe I'm being overly optimistic here, or have just read the situation incorrectly, but it would seem that her sudden about face would indicate that, for whatever reason (either pressure from OM or being served), _she knows that she's screwed_.

OP, any more texts, calls, e-mails, etc from your STBX?


----------



## dadof2

lordmayhem said:


> Don't expect too much from this. In most cases, blood is thicker than water. Naturally, she will believe her daughter over you, because that's her daughter. And even then, your WW has been demonizing you to everyone. There's a remote possibility that they even believe you. However, they may hate what their daughter has done, but when push comes to shove, they WILL support their daughter.
> 
> I too thought that I had the support of my ex-wife's family. They couldn't understand what she was doing. But in the end, they were just as nasty as she was.
> 
> *The important thing is that you got to tell your side of the story, whether they believe you or not is their problem. That should be part of your closure.*


This is the main reason for exposing to MIL. I was able to get the facts out there, and that allows me to take a huge step toward closure. I was very calm and made no threats. Everything I told her can be corroborated by the PI report.


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> Uhhh... Maybe I'm being overly optimistic here, or have just read the situation incorrectly, but it would seem that her sudden about face would indicate that, for whatever reason (either pressure from OM or being served), _she knows that she's screwed_.
> 
> OP, any more texts, calls, e-mails, etc from your STBX?


I haven't heard a thing from the other side since speaking to MIL this morning. I don't expect to hear anything for a while.


----------



## convert

elegirl, has some good points just be carful with what you say and write in the emails.

tdwal is right once they sue, in discovery or counter suit you can get more proof

we all know there was/is a PA

did or will your lawyer subpoena her phone records?


----------



## honcho

Well the pandoras box has been opened and you got to tell the story. The silence or the end of conversation from your MIL is not surprising at all. She doesn’t know what to say or really who to believe at this point. She has heard, is hearing two very different stories.

Do not be surprised if you do not hear from the in-laws again. Its not unusual at all and very rarely will they actually hold there daughter accountable. 

Turnera was pretty much spot on with what you will probably hear

"You had no right!
I was going to come back to you but not now that you've done this!
You'll never see your kids again!
My mom thinks you're crazy and this confirmed it for her!
We're all laughing at how pathetic you are now!
I told my lawyer and you'd better look out!"

She will want “payback” so you do have some storm clouds building.


----------



## dadof2

honcho said:


> Well the pandoras box has been opened and you got to tell the story. The silence or the end of conversation from your MIL is not surprising at all. She doesn’t know what to say or really who to believe at this point. She has heard, is hearing two very different stories.
> 
> Do not be surprised if you do not hear from the in-laws again. Its not unusual at all and very rarely will they actually hold there daughter accountable.
> 
> Turnera was pretty much spot on with what you will probably hear
> 
> "You had no right!
> I was going to come back to you but not now that you've done this!
> You'll never see your kids again!
> My mom thinks you're crazy and this confirmed it for her!
> We're all laughing at how pathetic you are now!
> I told my lawyer and you'd better look out!"
> 
> She will want “payback” so you do have some storm clouds building.


I agree. I'm sure she will quickly get out of the "shock" phase and come back to the pissed off and crazy biotch she has been for the last 2 months. I'm sure she will regroup and double down now. Once the dust settles I fully expect her parents to be back in her corner. This is exactly how it happened after DDay. They were behind me for about 2 weeks then she started spinning her lies. Once she gets her story made up this go-round, she will be back to her old manipulative ways.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

You did the right thing I am sure w is scrambling an no if she follows her legal advice they will not sue like someone said ALL discovery will be out there and PUBLIC then you can motion for all your attorneys costs.
I would be shocked but hey if she wants to bring it on.


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> I agree. I'm sure she will quickly get out of the "shock" phase and come back to the pissed off and crazy biotch she has been for the last 2 months. I'm sure she will regroup and double down now. Once the dust settles I fully expect her parents to be back in her corner. This is exactly how it happened after DDay. They were behind me for about 2 weeks then she started spinning her lies. Once she gets her story made up this go-round, she will be back to her old manipulative ways.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But you have something they don't.

Facts.

And facts are stubborn little things. They always seem to rise to the top every time they're pushed under the surface. So just stick with provable facts and right is always on your side.


----------



## tom67

thatbpguy said:


> But you have something they don't.
> 
> Facts.
> 
> And facts are stubborn little things. They always seem to rise to the top every time they're pushed under the surface. So just stick with provable facts and right is always on your side.


:iagree:
dadof2 is staying the course he has a great support system with his parents and he has really transformed since the beginning of this whole mess.
Good job.:smthumbup:


----------



## dadof2

tom67 said:


> :iagree:
> dadof2 is staying the course he has a great support system with his parents and he has really transformed since the beginning of this whole mess.
> Good job.:smthumbup:


Thanks I have looked back at my old posts and can see how I am working through this. I appreciate my family and friends as a great support group but I also don't underestimate the support I have gotten from this forum. I don't know if I would have had the courage or the insight to get to this point without the help of this board. I can't thank you guys enough.

As far as the story developments, I got a text from MIL about an hour ago telling me to enjoy me weekend with the kids and to give them a kids for her. She has never sent me anything like that since this ordeal began. I politely responded that I would. I don't want to read too much into it but it seems like she is a little uneasy about everything right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

That's good. Be kind to them inasmuch as you can. They didn't betray you and love your children too. The nicer you are, the crazier your STBX looks.


----------



## 3putt

dadof2 said:


> Thanks I have looked back at my old posts and can see how I am working through this. I appreciate my family and friends as a great support group but I also don't underestimate the support I have gotten from this forum. I don't know if I would have had the courage or the insight to get to this point without the help of this board. I can't thank you guys enough.
> 
> As far as the story developments, I got a text from MIL about an hour ago telling me to enjoy me weekend with the kids and to give them a kids for her. She has never sent me anything like that since this ordeal began. I politely responded that I would. *I don't want to read too much into it but it seems like she is a little uneasy about everything right now.*


Yep...sounds like the blinders are slowly being peeled away.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> Thanks I have looked back at my old posts and can see how I am working through this. I appreciate my family and friends as a great support group but I also don't underestimate the support I have gotten from this forum. I don't know if I would have had the courage or the insight to get to this point without the help of this board. I can't thank you guys enough.
> 
> As far as the story developments, I got a text from MIL about an hour ago telling me to enjoy me weekend with the kids and to give them a kids for her. She has never sent me anything like that since this ordeal began. I politely responded that I would. I don't want to read too much into it but it seems like she is a little uneasy about everything right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey she didn't have to say enjoy the weekend with the kids.
The truth has a way of snapping some people back into reality
But time will tell.


----------



## EleGirl

tdwal said:


> I didn't say I would not get in trouble for it but I would do it. The damage will have been done. Let her sue for slander, it will make it even more public. It is so difficult to prove slander that he has nothing to worry about.
> 
> Listen Ele, he is screwed anyway you look at it. The courts are so one sided he is screwed. She took the first strike with lying for the RO.


Posting on CV could be seen as a form of stalking and harassment. 




tdwal said:


> Your acting as if he can come out on top of this. IMHO having gone through something similar, he has at best a 20% chance of coming out on top. He might as well prepare for the worst.


What exactly does coming out on top mean? The law clearly states how assets/debt are to be divided, how much child support is and how much spousal support during and after the divorce. And his stbxw offered 50/50 custody.

He cannot prove infidelity so he cannot fight spousal support. They have not been married long so there won’t be much if any beyond the divorce period.

He wants the RO dropped. But if he bad mouths his stbx to people, especially where he can be recorded and he posts on CV that RO is not likely to be lifted.

The more drama he brings into this the more the legal fees will be. She can ask the court to have him pay her legal fees and if he drums up drama that he cannot prove then he will most likely get stuck with her legal fees.


----------



## EleGirl

tdwal said:


> Ele I understand where your coming from. Your speaking from the calmness of a lawyer looking for advantage how to get through this. I am not criticizing your wisdom here you have more than I. I just feel that he needs to make his presence known in this case instead of hide and be passive. He will certainly get screwed if the other side thinks that he is going to fold. There RO has worked so far, they had him on the run until yesterday. Or so they thought.


I'm completely on Dadof2's side here. I just see things that could blow up and am concerned, he needs to at least consider things 360 so that he's covered.

What happened yesterday and today could have very well been orchestrated by her attorney. That's why I asked if she or her attorney have actually received the response yet.


----------



## WyshIknew

tom67 said:


> Hey she didn't have to say enjoy the weekend with the kids.
> The truth has a way of snapping some people back into reality
> But time will tell.


At the moment I think, as much as she is able, the MIL is on DO2's 'side'.

I think the pressure is going to increase on DO2 to reconcile.

How long this will continue I don't know.


----------



## tom67

WyshIknew said:


> At the moment I think, as much as she is able, the MIL is on DO2's 'side'.
> 
> I think the pressure is going to increase on DO2 to reconcile.
> 
> How long this will continue I don't know.


No one knows because as long as she keeps pumping pills with alcohol she will deteriorate mentally and physically that's the wild card.
Hope she doesn't become abusive toward the kids down the road.


----------



## LongWalk

EleGirl said:


> *Posting on CV could be seen as a form of stalking and harassment.*
> 
> What exactly does coming out on top mean? The law clearly states how assets/debt are to be divided, how much child support is and how much spousal support during and after the divorce. And his stbxw offered 50/50 custody.
> 
> He cannot prove infidelity so he cannot fight spousal support. They have not been married long so there won’t be much if any beyond the divorce period.
> 
> He wants the RO dropped. But if he bad mouths his stbx to people, especially where he can be recorded and he posts on CV that RO is not likely to be lifted.
> 
> The more drama he brings into this the more the legal fees will be. She can ask the court to have him pay her legal fees and if he drums up drama that he cannot prove then he will most likely get stuck with her legal fees.


The post on CV should not mention his wife by name. So it cannot be construed as harassment.



> Asst principal XX has engaged a subordinate female colleague in an affair. XX and the colleague became involved as members of an workout group led by XX after teaching duties ended. The affair destroyed the marriage of the woman, who was married with small children.


For the WW to make a complaint with the police she would be forced to say that she was involved with POSOM. Thus, strengthening the perception of them cheating.


----------



## Augusto

You gotta realize something here. Your MIL is still in shock. She is somewhere between "My daughter is either stupid or I failed as a mother". She will go back and forth on this for years, May even require counseling for herself.


----------



## bandit.45

tom67 said:


> No one knows because as long as she keeps pumping pills with alcohol she will deteriorate mentally and physically that's the wild card.
> Hope she doesn't become abusive toward the kids down the road.


But does Dad even want to reconcile now? It may not matter any more what the WW wants or doesn't want. I see a much more objective and detached Dad now than the hurting man who first posted a few months ago. I think Dad has come to the place where he has let go of the outcome. That's a good thing.


----------



## Squeakr

Augusto said:


> You gotta realize something here. Your MIL is still in shock. She is somewhere between "My daughter is either stupid or I failed as a mother". She will go back and forth on this for years, May even require counseling for herself.


I wouldn't bet money on this depending on how close she was to her daughter. Some will back the the WS 100% and even think they did nothing wrong and were justified in their actions.


----------



## Augusto

Squeakr said:


> I wouldn't bet money on this depending on how close she was to her daughter. Some will back the the WS 100% and even think they did nothing wrong and were justified in their actions.


I am not going to bet on it either but her motherly instincts still kick in as long as grandchildren are involved. She may show some support to her daughter but deep down she knows. She would do what i best for the children and support them the best she could even if it meant admitting her daughter is a stupid woman.


----------



## Squeakr

Augusto said:


> I am not going to bet on it either but her motherly instincts still kick in as long as grandchildren are involved. She may show some support to her daughter but deep down she knows. She would do what i best for the children and support them the best she could even if it meant admitting her daughter is a stupid woman.


Have witnessed exactly what I described several times with different families and grand children were involved yet that made no difference (have seen it where the son was the WS as well). The motherly instinct kicks in to protect her child at all costs, as well, and they can do no wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Dadof2

Have a great weekend with the kids.

Do not get dragged into any drama with your WW or inlaws.

Right now, all that matters is right in front of you.

HM


----------



## Chuck71

GusPolinski said:


> This is probably correct. My response (assuming that I'd choose to even respond), upon being hit w/ the "you had no right" speech, would be to say, "In light of the baseless RO that you filed against me, I have every right to defend myself against your lies, and if that means telling the unmitigated truth to whomever may have bought into your bullsh*t, then so be it."
> 
> And -- again, assuming that I'd even bother w/ a response in the first place -- I'd probably chase ^this w/ any combination of "Go f*ck yourself", "eat sh*t", and "die".
> 
> But that's just me. :smthumbup:


you should add "eat schit and live"


----------



## Chuck71

There is no way I could express my sympathy I feel for you Do2. 

My journey was easy, no kids. You are 

being given sound advice, on both ends. It does seem

you have to mount a more defensive front until the D

is final. May be then would be a great time to expose.

What her parents or friends think, should not concern you

in the end, it all "comes out in the wash"

Get 50 / 50. Fly low... if at all possible expose her

during the school year and after D is final. You

would not be on hook for spousal support. Let

that POS keep her up. I received several forms of closure

with my X, from a few weeks after D, her attempt to reconnect

this January, and right around this May, in line with what would

have been our wedding anniversary


----------



## dadof2

Thanks as always for the advice guys. This forum has been a huge help in my dealing with this situation. I feel like I would be out there all alone if I had never found this site.

I have the kids this weekend and took them fishing this afternoon at our family pond. They each caught their first fish! I caught my first fish in the same pond with my dad many years ago. I have been beaming with pride all day! We had a great day and I honestly haven't thought about STBX hardly at all today. I did send her dad a pic of each kid holding their fish because I think that is a special moment. I did not send anything to STBX. I'm sure she's at OM's trailer tonight so I doubt she is interested anyway.


----------



## tom67

On top of everything he is trailer trash?
She picked a winner.


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> Thanks as always for the advice guys. This forum has been a huge help in my dealing with this situation. I feel like I would be out there all alone if I had never found this site.
> 
> I have the kids this weekend and took them fishing this afternoon at our family pond. They each caught their first fish! I caught my first fish in the same pond with my dad many years ago. I have been beaming with pride all day! We had a great day and I honestly haven't thought about STBX hardly at all today. I did send her dad a pic of each kid holding their fish because I think that is a special moment. I did not send anything to STBX. I'm sure she's at OM's trailer tonight so I doubt she is interested anyway.


OM lives in a trailer? 

:rofl:

Oh man, she's really aiming for the clouds isn't she?


----------



## bandit.45

tom67 said:


> On top of everything he is trailer trash?
> She picked a winner.


Her skank score just doubled.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Thanks as always for the advice guys. This forum has been a huge help in my dealing with this situation. I feel like I would be out there all alone if I had never found this site.
> 
> I have the kids this weekend and took them fishing this afternoon at our family pond. They each caught their first fish! I caught my first fish in the same pond with my dad many years ago. I have been beaming with pride all day! We had a great day and I honestly haven't thought about STBX hardly at all today. I did send her dad a pic of each kid holding their fish because I think that is a special moment. I did not send anything to STBX. *I'm sure she's at OM's trailer tonight* so I doubt she is interested anyway.


:lol: :rofl:

And hey, that's a great weekend! Now log the f*ck off of TAM and go enjoy the rest of it!


----------



## tom67

Just couldn't resist

Dueling Banjos (HD) - YouTube


----------



## dadof2

I thought I had told you all that before! Yes he lives in a trailer out in the woods. If yall only knew STBX before all this started she wouldn't be caught dead within 100 miles of a mobile home.

She left a nice house that is paid for, with a vehicle that is paid for, to chase this clown back to his trailer.

ETA: Gus I am following your advice- going get one more cold one before calling it a night! See yall in the AM


----------



## Pamvhv

I feel really bad about the turn this has taken. Owning a house vs a trailer doesn't show what kind of person you are. Cheating with an obviously married person shows what kind of person you are whether you live in a mcmansion or a cardboard box.


----------



## GusPolinski

Pamvhv said:


> I feel really bad about the turn this has taken. Owning a house vs a trailer doesn't show what kind of person you are. Cheating with an obviously married person shows what kind of person you are whether you live in a mcmansion or a cardboard box.


OK, fair enough. We were just having a bit of light fun. I mean c'mon... it's funny!

And hey, I've lived in a trailer before. But it was a nice trailer! :smthumbup:

(Seriously, there really are some nice trailers out there. I wouldn't buy one for myself though, as they tend to depreciate in value pretty quickly.)


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> OK, fair enough. We were just having a bit of light fun. I mean c'mon... it's funny!
> 
> And hey, I've lived in a trailer before. But it was a nice trailer! :smthumbup:
> 
> (Seriously, there really are some nice trailers out there. I wouldn't buy one for myself though, as they tend to depreciate in value pretty quickly.)


Yes we are not that shallow...I think
Hey it's Saturday night oh God bay city rollers
Bay city rollers-Saturday night - YouTube


----------



## bandit.45

GusPolinski said:


> OK, fair enough. We were just having a bit of light fun. I mean c'mon... it's funny!
> 
> And hey, I've lived in a trailer before. But it was a nice trailer! :smthumbup:
> 
> (Seriously, there really are some nice trailers out there. I wouldn't buy one for myself though, as they tend to depreciate in value pretty quickly.)


Hillbilly.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Hillbilly.


Who has more fun than people?


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> Hillbilly.


I have been referred to as such, though it's probably much more common these days that I hear "*******".


----------



## turnera

eh, my mom lived in a trailer, by choice, and I admire her more than anyone else I've ever known.

But I'm here to tell you, the Dueling Banjoes scene was the most terrifying, chilling moment of my life, even though it wasn't the actual most awful moments of the movie (I emphatically refuse to remember the others).


----------



## Pamvhv

turnera said:


> eh, my mom lived in a trailer, by choice, and I admire her more than anyone else I've ever known.
> 
> But I'm here to tell you, the Dueling Banjoes scene was the most terrifying, chilling moment of my life, even though it wasn't the actual most awful moments of the movie (I emphatically refuse to remember the others).


I grew up in the Appalachian mountains...


----------



## LongWalk

Add the trailer fact to a Cheaterville entry and it will get more hits for sure
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

DO2

Just the fact he lives in a trailer goes to show you that your PI did not have an easy job.

Maybe he has a really nice quad? That could have been the clincher? :scratchhead:

Glad you guys caught some fish.

I also think you will be catching plenty of fish once your wife is out of the picture. 

It never ceases to amaze me just how dumb and low these cheaters get.....

HM


----------



## Blossom Leigh

GusPolinski said:


> OK, fair enough. We were just having a bit of light fun. I mean c'mon... it's funny!
> 
> And hey, I've lived in a trailer before. But it was a nice trailer! :smthumbup:
> 
> (Seriously, there really are some nice trailers out there. I wouldn't buy one for myself though, as they tend to depreciate in value pretty quickly.)


Not if it is on its own land on a permanent foundation. That changes that dynamic. Fluctuates with the regular housing market in that scenario


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Pamvhv said:


> I feel really bad about the turn this has taken. Owning a house vs a trailer doesn't show what kind of person you are. Cheating with an obviously married person shows what kind of person you are whether you live in a mcmansion or a cardboard box.



Very well said...


----------



## bandit.45

Nothing wrong with trailers. But when a woman intentionally downgrades from a nice home and secure life to a sardine can out in the woods....that's aiming for the scum layer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

I remember visiting my aunt in California about 50 years ago and marveling at her mobile home. And learned that because of the high cost of 'real' homes there, a huge portion of people chose mobile homes just because it's all they could afford. But it was a NICE community and if you didn't look at the structures themselves, you wouldn't even know.


----------



## EleGirl

bandit.45 said:


> Nothing wrong with trailers. But when a woman intentionally downgrades from a nice home and secure life to a sardine can out in the woods....that's aiming for the scum layer.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For all we know, he's living in the trailer while he works on plans build a McMansion.

Do you really think that appearances should be the most important thing in life?


----------



## EleGirl

happyman64 said:


> Just the fact he lives in a trailer goes to show you that your PI did not have an easy job.


How does him living in a trailer mean that the PI did not have an easy job?


----------



## dadof2

turnera said:


> I remember visiting my aunt in California about 50 years ago and marveling at her mobile home. And learned that because of the high cost of 'real' homes there, a huge portion of people chose mobile homes just because it's all they could afford. But it was a NICE community and if you didn't look at the structures themselves, you wouldn't even know.


I have no problem with people that live in a trailer. Like others have said, you could live in a mansion and still be a scumbag. In this case it just adds to the depth that STBX has sunk in her life. Leaving a nice house with no mortgage and a good school district to where she is now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

Blossom Leigh said:


> Not if it is on its own land on a permanent foundation. That changes that dynamic. Fluctuates with the regular housing market in that scenario


To a degree, yes, but the structure itself will depreciate. The land will not.


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> I remember visiting my aunt in California about 50 years ago and marveling at her mobile home. And learned that because of the high cost of 'real' homes there, a huge portion of people chose mobile homes just because it's all they could afford. But it was a NICE community and if you didn't look at the structures themselves, you wouldn't even know.


Those are not the types I'm talking about. You're not getting my point. 

This guy is a troglodyte living out in the backwoods, not a retiree in a gated trailer village.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

EleGirl said:


> For all we know, he's living in the trailer while he works on plans build a McMansion.
> 
> Do you really think that appearances should be the most important thing in life?


If I was a woman going through all the pain and trouble of having an affair and ditching my husband, I would have the affair with a wealthier, or equal in class person to my husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

turnera said:


> I remember visiting my aunt in California about 50 years ago and marveling at her mobile home. And learned that because of the high cost of 'real' homes there, a huge portion of people chose mobile homes just because it's all they could afford. But it was a NICE community and if you didn't look at the structures themselves, you wouldn't even know.


A lot of people buy a piece of land and put up a trailer or pre-built on it. I've seen some very nice ones. A lot of well off people do this, not just extreme lower class types. 

Sure there are a lot of jokes about people living in trailers. But the simple fact that a person lives in a trailer does not mean that a person is laughable, scum, or anything derogatory. Whatever happened to frugal is good?

He's a single guy who owns a piece of land. Maybe a trailer makes sense. Later he could build a house and fix up the trailer as a guest house.

I get that trashing the OM/OW is part of the fun for some folks around here. But there are people posting here who live in trailers. Do you really look down on them?


----------



## EleGirl

bandit.45 said:


> If I was a woman going through all the pain and trouble of having an affair and ditching my husband, I would have the affair with a wealthier, or equal in class person to my husband.


For all you know this guy has a million dollars in the bank. 

Guys complain all the time that women are gold diggers, the when a woman is not a gold digger they put her down. Got it :scratchhead:


----------



## thatbpguy

EleGirl said:


> For all you know this guy has a million dollars in the bank.
> 
> Guys complain all the time that women are gold diggers, the when a woman is not a gold digger they put her down. Got it :scratchhead:


Oh for Pete sake, this bit about the trailer is getting pathetic.

So let me join in... 

I have lived in a top of the line mobile home and after a while it looks and feels more and more like a trailer. Nothing like the whole side of a structure bowing when doors are opened, ya know? Makes one feel rich.

As to the double standard applied to women, it's fair, but it also applies to men equally in its own way. My closest friend is an admitted gold digger and has been chasing well to do women for several years and it's a constant bone of contention between us.

So let's move on to better areas of dirt.


----------



## Chaparral

The thing that worries me is him taking the kids on a four wheeler ride. Yet another little girl got killed near here last week. I know many people that have four wheelers. Almost none of them know how or care to ride them safely.

Your attorney is negligent in keeping your kids away from him.

Most people that have trailers don't own the land they set on.

Sneaking up to spy on a trailer in the woods seems obviously difficult for a PI.

Most trailers in this area are an eyesore. Mandatory trash pickup doesn't seem to matter. Zoning enforcement is lax.

Trailer in the woods, think dope until proven innocent.


----------



## thatbpguy

Chaparral said:


> The thing that worries me is him taking the kids on a four wheeler ride. Yet another little girl got killed near here last week. I know many people that have four wheelers. Almost none of them know how or care to ride them safely.
> 
> Your attorney is negligent in keeping your kids away from him.
> 
> Most people that have trailers don't own the land they set on.
> 
> Sneaking up to spy on a trailer in the woods seems obviously difficult for a PI.
> 
> Most trailers in this area are an eyesore. Mandatory trash pickup doesn't seem to matter. Zoning enforcement is lax.
> 
> Trailer in the woods, think dope until proven innocent.


You make a few good points but me thinks it's a bit extreme. 

Just use some calm common sense in all this. Otherwise, hysteria takes over.


----------



## bandit.45

EleGirl said:


> For all you know this guy has a million dollars in the bank.
> 
> Guys complain all the time that women are gold diggers, the when a woman is not a gold digger they put her down. Got it :scratchhead:


He's a swamp rat. C'mon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

bandit.45 said:


> He's a swamp rat. C'mon.


Well if it helps DadOf2 then I suppose he is.

I think that DadOf2 should post a picture of his house and a picture of the trailer and land so we can all make up our minds based on reality. I'm sure that will take about 20 pages of discussions to come to anything close to a consensus. And I'm sure he needs us to do this. So let's get started...


----------



## thatbpguy

Now children, now children...


----------



## GusPolinski

Let me just say this... Given the stereotypically dim view of "trailers" and those who choose to reside in them, I get the impression that, if OM's abode were indeed a grand, opulent mega-trailer of the calibre to which all lesser trailers aspire, OP likely would not have pointed out that his WW was hanging out "at OM's trailer".

Anyway, moving on...


----------



## Chaparral

I don't see the problem. He sets up a yoga class with obvious intentions. He pursues a married woman with children. He exposes his employer to lawsuits. He dosnt know enough to protect his job/reputation. He tries to hyjack another mans wife and kids.

He has the trash tag down pat. The rest naturally follows. This ain't a court of law. We call it like we see it.


----------



## GusPolinski

:iagree:

Word.


----------



## bandit.45

Chaparral said:


> I don't see the problem. He sets up a yoga class with obvious intentions. He pursues a married woman with children. He exposes his employer to lawsuits. He dosnt know enough to protect his job/reputation. He tries to hyjack another mans wife and kids.
> 
> He has the trash tag down pat. The rest naturally follows. This ain't a court of law. We call it like we see it.


Well said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## just got it 55

Chaparral said:


> The thing that worries me is him taking the kids on a four wheeler ride. Yet another little girl got killed near here last week. I know many people that have four wheelers. Almost none of them know how or care to ride them safely.
> 
> Your attorney is negligent in keeping your kids away from him.
> 
> Most people that have trailers don't own the land they set on.
> 
> Sneaking up to spy on a trailer in the woods seems obviously difficult for a PI.
> 
> Most trailers in this area are an eyesore. Mandatory trash pickup doesn't seem to matter. Zoning enforcement is lax.
> 
> Trailer in the woods, *think dope until proven innocent*.


The guy living in it or selling the stuff :lol::lol:

55


----------



## Blossom Leigh

GusPolinski said:


> To a degree, yes, but the structure itself will depreciate. The land will not.


So do stick built homes...


----------



## VeryHurt

Dad of 2 ~

I spent a few hours last evening reading your entire thread and here at my thoughts:

I am stunned that your wife was/is willing to break up a family with such small children. What is she thinking? That bothers me the most.

I would stay away from your MIL and FIL.

What would your wife say about you and why she cheated?
What does she feel are your faults?
Is she afraid of you?

It really doen't matter if the OM lives in a trailer or in the Palace of Versailles, there is something about him that appeals to her.

She clearly is a liar and she cannot be trusted.

Take Care ~

VH


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Chaparral said:


> Most people that have trailers don't own the land they set on.
> 
> Sneaking up to spy on a trailer in the woods seems obviously difficult for a PI.
> 
> Most trailers in this area are an eyesore. Mandatory trash pickup doesn't seem to matter. Zoning enforcement is lax.
> 
> Trailer in the woods, think dope until proven innocent.


While I understand your point, just keep in mind a few things...


Some of the most loving families I have ever met did so while living in run down houses or mobile homes. Its not the structure that makes a home but the hearts inside. Likewise, some of the most wonderful couples I know live in beautiful stick built homes. 

My H and I own three trailers, two doublewides and one singlewide that looks like an adorable cabin in the woods and we rent them out. All our families living in them are hard working, trying to get on in life. I'm grateful to be in the position to help them out. These houses stay rented with healthy rents. Great ROI since we didnt have to pay much for them, but they comand high rent since their location is in an in demand school system and there are no apartments. So, I park their rent just under the local homes, which is high and we are doing quite well. Two of them pay off this year. All homes are just a box. Its what you do with them that counts. And home is where the heart is.


----------



## WyshIknew

Chaparral said:


> I don't see the problem. He sets up a yoga class with obvious intentions. He pursues a married woman with children. He exposes his employer to lawsuits. He dosnt know enough to protect his job/reputation. He tries to hyjack another mans wife and kids.
> *He hopes to insert himself into another mans home....... Instant upgrade.*
> 
> He has the trash tag down pat. The rest naturally follows. This ain't a court of law. We call it like we see it.


----------



## Turin74

The OM may have an oil well under his trailer. .. It is just be doesn't appear to be a noble reliable guy with investment plan as other trailer owners may be. 

Guess in the eyes of cwi the cheater is guilty until proven slightly less guilty, I have no problems with that.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## EleGirl

Chaparral said:


> Trailer in the woods, think dope until proven innocent.


as in Breaking Bad... lol Ok in Breaking Bad it was the trailer on the mesa way out in the desert. But same thing.. the mesa is the woods with all the trees gone centuries ago.

But see... he's rolling in the dough (or dope)


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Blossom Leigh said:


> So do stick built homes...


Just so everyone knows... If you study appraisals long enough you will realize that stick built homes and mobile homes on land behave the same. The value is set by the market. As your stick built home ages, the structure depreciates. Take an appaisal of a new home versus and old home with same configuration and the appraiser deducts for the age of the older home. There are many myths in real estate markets and excessive depreciation of a mobile home on land is one of them as well as a stick built structure not depreciating.

This concludes my mortgage/ real estate lesson for the day.... Lol

Back to our regular programing


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Chaparral said:


> I don't see the problem. He sets up a yoga class with obvious intentions. He pursues a married woman with children. He exposes his employer to lawsuits. He dosnt know enough to protect his job/reputation. He tries to hyjack another mans wife and kids.
> 
> He has the trash tag down pat. The rest naturally follows. This ain't a court of law. We call it like we see it.



Truth, yet, there still runs a possibility that what he lives in is independent from these issues... And yet you could be 100% right. There are always outliers like me


----------



## Blossom Leigh

tdwal said:


> Thank goodness it is the last. How did this thread get so side tracked on trailer homes and how they define people. Geez.


Sorry.. just have a heart for lies in those industries that keep people in massive debt. Was in the biz for 14 years before switching to investment only.


----------



## GusPolinski

EleGirl said:


> as in Breaking Bad... lol Ok in Breaking Bad it was the trailer on the mesa way out in the desert. But same thing.. the mesa is the woods with all the trees gone centuries ago.
> 
> But see... he's rolling in the dough (or dope)


LOL. New word?

"Doughpe"

:lol:


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> LOL. New word?
> 
> "Doughpe"
> 
> :lol:


No soup for you!


----------



## tom67

Dadot2 hopefully the drop off went fine.
Did MIL or FIL say anything?
Again the fishing story was great.
When I was a kid my big moment was getting almost around the lake the first time water skiing.
My dad couldn't believe it.


----------



## GusPolinski

GusPolinski said:


> LOL. New word?
> 
> "Doughpe"
> 
> :lol:





tom67 said:


> No soup for you!


Hey, it kind of sounds Dutch! Or Swedish!


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Hey, it kind of sounds Dutch! Or Swedish!


You are so twisted.:rofl:


----------



## Chaparral

Blossom Leigh said:


> While I understand your point, just keep in mind a few things...
> 
> 
> Some of the most loving families I have ever met did so while living in run down houses or mobile homes. Its not the structure that makes a home but the hearts inside. Likewise, some of the most wonderful couples I know live in beautiful stick built homes.
> 
> My H and I own three trailers, two doublewides and one singlewide that looks like an adorable cabin in the woods and we rent them out. All our families living in them are hard working, trying to get on in life. I'm grateful to be in the position to help them out. These houses stay rented with healthy rents. Great ROI since we didnt have to pay much for them, but they comand high rent since their location is in an in demand school system and there are no apartments. So, I park their rent just under the local homes, which is high and we are doing quite well. Two of them pay off this year. All homes are just a box. Its what you do with them that counts. And home is where the heart is.


This fellow does not fit the description of your tenants. He's a scumbag.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> This fellow does not fit the description of your tenants. He's a scumbag.


Predator. Period.:iagree::iagree::iagree:
I hope op gets his @ss fired!!!
But that is down the line.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Oh I'm sure.. its just not what he is living in that produces that evidence. Its his behavior.


----------



## Chuck71

Pamvhv said:


> I grew up in the Appalachian mountains...


Howdy neighbor! I did as well, Smokies. I left the area

only to return. The sunrises, sunsets, lake, hiking...et al

Something magical


----------



## dadof2

Ok a lot of new developments over the weekend.

As I posted earlier, STBX called me last Wednesday wanting to try counseling, and then she sent me pictures of our kids at the zoo the next day. Come to find out she took our kids *and OM's kids* to the zoo! I spoke to her mother last friday and told her all about the affair. She didn't say anything at all.

I spoke with MIL again this morning and she told me that she knows about the other guy and that STBX is babysitting his kids this summer. Nothing about their relationship. I told her that is very convenient but she acted like nothing was wrong with it. I got her to ask STBX to call me, and she did.

I told STBX that if there was any chance I was thinking about meeting her at counseling after her phone call, that it was all gone as soon as I found out she is still around OM. I told her that I was not going to compete with another man for my wife. She admitted that is was not good for the kids to have them around him so quickly. She tried to make out like they are just friends and she needed some money this summer. I told her we have a savings account that is half hers if she needed money.

I had to back off a little because I didn't want anything to be spun like harassment at this point. I left it at as long as she is seeing OM in any capacity, I don't want to see her or talk to her.


----------



## warlock07

She keeps lying as if you are some kind of idiot!!



> She tried to make out like they are just friends and she needed some money this summer


Or probably she is paying smart legally in case you are recording the calls. Could be also the reason she kept quiet during the last phone call.


----------



## lordmayhem

Of course MIL didn't say anything, they've known about it all along. Blood is thicker than water.


----------



## tom67

This pos needs some consequences like yesterday.
I'm thinking like cheaterville and emailing the link to the school board members.
You don't have to mention your stbxw name.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



lordmayhem said:


> Of course MIL didn't say anything, they've known about it all along. Blood is thicker than water.


Yup, that would be my guess as well. I'm also guessing that the only reason she was silent during your call was because she was surprised YOU knew.


----------



## Chuck71

sad but true, very sad

they know the truth but will NEVER EVER admit it

well.....maybe on their deathbed


----------



## bandit.45

Isn't it great how she is trying to set you up? She has no intention of really going to counseling with you. She knew you would refuse given her ongoing affair. But she threw the request out there anyway as a dead herring. Now she can tell her lawyer and everyone else that you refused to attend counseling with her, how once again you thwarted her attempts to save the marriage....

It's all about making you out to be the bad guy.


----------



## bfree

Btw, in case it's not already abundantly obvious don't bother calling the mil again.


----------



## lordmayhem

bandit.45 said:


> Isn't it great how she is trying to set you up? She has no intention of really going to counseling with you. She knew you would refuse given her ongoing affair. But she threw the request out there anyway as a dead herring. Now she can tell her lawyer and everyone else that you refused to attend counseling with her, how once again you thwarted her attempts to save the marriage....
> 
> It's all about making you out to be the bad guy.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

That's exactly how I see it too. All the requests for MC without any real interest, is just to show to family and court that she attempted to save the marriage was rejected.

I wouldn't doubt that she's recording the calls too for proof. So be wary.


----------



## tom67

Maybe it's time for a few depositions starting with the principal hey it may amount to not much but it's all public record.
Plus it will put pressure to fire the pos to make the problem go away faster.
And like others have said go dark on the in laws not worth your time.


----------



## dadof2

I agree on no more contact with the inlaws. I was able to get my side out there but they already believe her so what's the point. It is truly amazing how they can be so naive, or just plain ignorant.

Her mom full out denied that they have a relationship other than babysitting. There is nothing I can say to them to make them think rationally. That is exactly what many of you told me on here before I spoke to them. At least I got it off my chest and how they deal with it is their issue.

I wish STBX would have never called me last week to ask about marriage counseling. I have been all systems go toward a full court press on divorce, and she got me thinking about a small chance at R. But it was going to be on her terms ("babysitting" OM"s kids while we try MC) and that is complete bullsh!t. I told her on the phone that the only way in the world I would ever consider MC would be when OM is completely out of her life. I told her that is the choice she has to make and I am not going to compete with him for her attention.


----------



## sandc

I guess I missed it. Since she is "babysitting" his kids, is she living with him at the moment?


----------



## BjornFree

tom67 said:


> Maybe it's time for a few depositions starting with the principal hey it may amount to not much but it's all public record.
> Plus it will put pressure to fire the pos to make the problem go away faster.
> *And like others have said go dark on the in laws not worth your time.*


Stop talking, sharing photos and engaging with your POS in-laws. They are firmly entrenched in the enemy camp. If you ever need to engage with them in any capacity then the RO has to go. Use this to your advantage. If they call you again redirect it to your lawyer and have her put them in place. (If they truly care about your children or you, they will have your wife lift the RO - this is also humiliating for her and could be a good test to check her remorse although you don't need to bother at this point).

Its a cruel world dadof2 with everyone, doesn't matter if its your wife or your in laws, hoping to catch you napping and stick it in you. Stay vigilant


----------



## BjornFree

dadof2 said:


> I told her that is the choice she has to make and I am not going to compete with him for her attention.


The only choice here is yours to make.

Her behavior and continuous lying should clue you in on where her loyalty lies. Reconciliation is a pipe dream more often than not and seeing your wife's antics thus far I'd say its pretty much impossible at this point.


----------



## lordmayhem

dadof2 said:


> I wish STBX would have never called me last week to ask about marriage counseling. I have been all systems go toward a full court press on divorce, and she got me thinking about a small chance at R. But it was going to be on her terms ("babysitting" OM"s kids while we try MC) and that is complete bullsh!t. I told her on the phone that the only way in the world I would ever consider MC would be when OM is completely out of her life. I told her that is the choice she has to make and I am not going to compete with him for her attention.


Again, this is a legal ploy, done nothing more than to make her look good in the eyes of the court so she can say she attempted reconciliation but was rejected. Stop talking. She is probably recording all communication with you for her own lawyer. And you're playing right into their hands. Stop it.


----------



## Just Joe

What happened is not all bad. At least you learned once and for all where everyone stands. Who cares what front or facade or outright lies they tell, you actually have proof so you know it will eventually come out. Has she been served yet or did this all come about through your dad's convo with the school official?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

lordmayhem said:


> Again, this is a legal ploy, done nothing more than to make her look good in the eyes of the court so she can say she attempted reconciliation but was rejected. Stop talking. She is probably recording all communication with you for her own lawyer. And you're playing right into their hands. Stop it.


TEXT from now on.
And only regarding the kids if she tries to call let it go to vm.


----------



## warlock07

> she needed some money this summer


how much does she get paid for "babysitting"? 

Must be quite a bit


----------



## Just Joe

She ain't coming back unless all other options fail in my opinion.

My guess is her parents are not naive but are supporting her position fully anyway; regardless if they think she's wrong. They may be afraid she will walk away from them like she walked away from you. They raised her. They may have contributed to the way she is now by letting her get away with stuff just as they are doing now. I know a lot of parents who seem completely balanced and reasonable but when it comes to their kids the kids can do no wrong. Or they have trouble saying no. Or both.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

warlock07 said:


> how much does she get paid for "babysitting"?
> 
> Must be quite a bit


Probably another lie like all the others she's been telling.
Kind of sad the in laws are enabling this behavior oh well the lies will be all be revealed in time.


----------



## warlock07

> I spoke with MIL again this morning and she told me that she knows about the other guy and that STBX is babysitting his kids this summer. Nothing about their relationship. I told her that is very convenient but she acted like nothing was wrong with it. I got her to ask STBX to call me, and she did





> Her mom full out denied that they have a relationship other than babysitting.


Just clicked in my mind. She is not going to say anything that will compromise her daughter legally, right or wrong. 

they know you have a PI. The babysitting is probably a legal way of explaining on why she was at his home so frequently. So your pics proof from PI might be useless.


----------



## happyman64

Dadof2

Did you record that call with your wife?

And you took the right stance.

Now get the RO removed. Get 50/50 of your kids time.

Sort out the finances and let the divorce process follow its course.

And when it is all over let your family make a stink at the school board so the OM and your wife sweat their jobs.

And your wife needed extra money? Pleaseeeee.

And I agree with the team. You got your position off your chest. Now embarrass your WW and the OM in court.

And yes your wife has definitely screwed the kids over by letting them get attached to the OM and his kids so soon.

But she is a mental midget at this time.

What subject does she teach?

HM


----------



## BWBill

Doubt that the OM knows she reached out to you.

Is there some way you could have him find out? Could stir up a little trouble in Paradise.


----------



## sandc

She has rewritten history with her husband. That is the story her parents are getting, whatever that story is. That's why she got the RO. That is why they are siding with her. Well, that and the whole blood thing.


----------



## sandc

BWBill said:


> Doubt that the OM knows she reached out to you.
> 
> Is there some way you could have him find out? Could stir up a little trouble in Paradise.


:lol: Yeah, remind him she's his problem know and he needs to get her under control.


----------



## happyman64

sandc said:


> She has rewritten history with her husband. That is the story her parents are getting, whatever that story is. That's why she got the RO. That is why they are siding with her. Well, that and the whole blood thing.


Don't forget about the kids. They want unimpeded access to their grandchildren. Which is understandable.

Give it time.


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> Don't forget about the kids. They want unimpeded access to their grandchildren. Which is understandable.
> 
> Give it time.


Kind of ironic after the d they will get less time.
:slap:


----------



## GusPolinski

LOL. Babysitting for him. Right.

Actually, you know what... I take that back. She probably is "sitting" for him.

But on his face. :smthumbup:

Also, take half of your shared savings and dump it into a separate account that she can't access (assuming, of course, that you've not already done so).

BTW, how did you find out that she had his kids at the zoo w/ her along w/ yours?


----------



## warlock07

Gus,you might want to edit the first few lines out.. that was un-necessary..


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

If she's babysitting POSOM's children, does that mean she's letting POSOM babysit her children too?


----------



## WyshIknew

One thing (amongst many) that concerns me is that as OM is in a trailer I hope this isn't going to be something similar to Luvmyjava where the two AP's have this wonderful vision of DO2 being forced to move out into a bedsit, they all become jolly good friends and OM moves into the house with his kids.

DO2 lawyer seems on the ball so hopefully this is not a consideration.


----------



## GusPolinski

warlock07 said:


> Gus,you might want to edit the first few lines out.. that was un-necessary..


It was a bit crude, perhaps, but it wasn't intended to wound or incite. I meant only to galvanize OP's resolve to push forward w/ either divorce or reconciliation, _but on his own terms_, and free of the veil of his WW's obvious lies.

If I've unintentionally hurt or insulted OP then all he has to do is to say so, and I will offer my genuine apology and, if he wishes, edit my post accordingly.


----------



## honcho

Mine went with the excuse that she was over at the OM house all the time because she was redecorating his kitchen and doing it as a side job to earn money. Mine took it a step further with her family telling them she HAD to find extra work because I cleaned out all the money out of the accounts. Her attorney may also try to use this as a ploy in order to justify the temp spousal support when you actually get to court. 

Family will always turn a blind eye it just seems to be the harsh reality. While the story is an excuse to hide things she is babysitting so while lying she isn’t. Again its just another example of how WS will spin stories to justify behavior, we all the the babysitting angle is nonsense and her parents know it deep down too.

You have stated your case, you told her you will not compete for her. You should now be done talking to her family and her.


----------



## dadof2

honcho said:


> Mine went with the excuse that she was over at the OM house all the time because she was redecorating his kitchen and doing it as a side job to earn money. Mine took it a step further with her family telling them she HAD to find extra work because I cleaned out all the money out of the accounts. Her attorney may also try to use this as a ploy in order to justify the temp spousal support when you actually get to court.
> 
> Family will always turn a blind eye it just seems to be the harsh reality. While the story is an excuse to hide things she is babysitting so while lying she isn’t. Again its just another example of how WS will spin stories to justify behavior, we all the the babysitting angle is nonsense and her parents know it deep down too.
> 
> Y*ou have stated your case, you told her you will not compete for her. You should now be done talking to her family and her.*


Yep, I am done talking to all of them. Her mom gave away some of their "evidence" of the abuse to me over the phone. It is all made up and any explanation I could even try would not be worth it. Nothing will change with STBX, she keeps saying how much she misses the kids. It looks like now that I told her I would not do any counseling as long as OM is around, that she may go for more custody. It seems like she is setting me up for that. Saying how much she misses the children, but doesn't say anything about us getting back together.

I didn't think of it at the time but I wish I would have said something along the lines of, "You have our kids in summer camp 3 days a week but you are able to babysit his kids 5 days a week."


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> It was a bit crude, perhaps, but it wasn't intended to wound or incite. I meant only to galvanize OP's resolve to push forward w/ either divorce or reconciliation, _but on his own terms_, and free of the veil of his WW's obvious lies.
> 
> If I've unintentionally hurt or insulted OP then all he has to do is to say so, and I will offer my genuine apology and, if he wishes, edit my post accordingly.


We're cool Gus, no offense taken. I thought it was a pretty good line!


----------



## VeryHurt

bfree said:


> Btw, in case it's not already abundantly obvious don't bother calling the mil again.


I agree. I posted a few days ago that he should stay away from the MIL .......I don't like her attitude. She cannot be trusted.


----------



## seeking sanity

dadof2 said:


> I told STBX that if there was any chance I was thinking about meeting her at counseling after her phone call, that it was all gone as soon as I found out she is still around OM. I told her that I was not going to compete with another man for my wife. She admitted that is was not good for the kids to have them around him so quickly. She tried to make out like they are just friends and she needed some money this summer. I told her we have a savings account that is half hers if she needed money.


I've been there and don't follow this logic. What you are inadvertently telling STBXW is that you'll wait around until she's done with OM. I can't be "I don't want to talk with you while you are with him" (giving her the power), it has to be, "I don't want to talk with you and I'm moving on." No buts. No conditions. No window of opportunity for her. 

Take back your power.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> We're cool Gus, no offense taken. I thought it was a pretty good line!


Tell you what, I apologize anyway. I'm sure to say something that will offend you at some point.


----------



## bandit.45

seeking sanity said:


> I've been there and don't follow this logic. What you are inadvertently telling STBXW is that you'll wait around until she's done with OM. I can't be "I don't want to talk with you while you are with him" (giving her the power), it has to be, "I don't want to talk with you and I'm moving on." No buts. No conditions. No window of opportunity for her.
> 
> Take back your power.


Good point. 

She can either jump aboard his train or get left at the station.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Don't ever be someone's plan B.


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> I agree on no more contact with the inlaws. I was able to get my side out there but they already believe her so what's the point. It is truly amazing how they can be so naive, or just plain ignorant.
> 
> Her mom full out denied that they have a relationship other than babysitting. There is nothing I can say to them to make them think rationally. That is exactly what many of you told me on here before I spoke to them. At least I got it off my chest and how they deal with it is their issue.
> 
> I wish STBX would have never called me last week to ask about marriage counseling. I have been all systems go toward a full court press on divorce, and she got me thinking about a small chance at R. But it was going to be on her terms ("babysitting" OM"s kids while we try MC) and that is complete bullsh!t. I told her on the phone that the only way in the world I would ever consider MC would be when OM is completely out of her life. I told her that is the choice she has to make and I am not going to compete with him for her attention.


You need to really think seriously about whether or not you want to continue the marriage. If so, then go for it witrh all youor heart. If not, divorce and don't mess around. Just be sure you take the time to decide what you want.


----------



## sandc

dadof2 said:


> Yep, I am done talking to all of them. Her mom gave away some of their "evidence" of the abuse to me over the phone. It is all made up and any explanation I could even try would not be worth it. Nothing will change with STBX, she keeps saying how much she misses the kids. It looks like now that I told her I would not do any counseling as long as OM is around, that she may go for more custody. It seems like she is setting me up for that. Saying how much she misses the children, but doesn't say anything about us getting back together.
> 
> I didn't think of it at the time but I wish I would have said something along the lines of, "You have our kids in summer camp 3 days a week but you are able to babysit his kids 5 days a week."


Document every little thing like this for the custody hearing.


----------



## sandc

GusPolinski said:


> Tell you what, I apologize anyway. I'm sure to say something that will offend you at some point.


Take the apology. His alignment is chaotic neutral. You never know what he'll do.


----------



## Turin74

Dadof2, Obviously they're is a multi layer plan in place. They (stbxw, mil and likely om) are trying at the same time to a) set you up for the future divorce on terms favorable for them; b) paint your as a bad guy, so their ego and reputation is intact, and c) most brazen, to get you to help them with transitioning your kids to their mother's new relationship. 


They also intend to keep you confused and on the fence until they have their ducks in the row. 

I'd counter that by a) cutting off all channels they can get the info about you as much as possible; b) doing something they don't expect , like filing.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## dadof2

Turin74 said:


> Dadof2, Obviously they're is a multi layer plan in place. They (stbxw, mil and likely om) are trying at the same time to a) set you up for the future divorce on terms favorable for them; b) paint your as a bad guy, so their ego and reputation is intact, and c) most brazen, to get you to help them with transitioning your kids to their mother's new relationship.
> 
> 
> They also intend to keep you confused and on the fence until they have their ducks in the row.
> 
> I'd counter that by a) cutting off all channels they can get the info about you as much as possible; b) doing something they don't expect , like filing.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


She filed against me and just received my response last week. I truly think the response scared her and that made her make the phone call last week asking to go to counseling. I think now she has her feet under her and is using the "babysitting" story as an excuse to be at his house all of the time. 

I plan to go dark again now that we are in this stage of the D process. Things were better for me the last 2 weeks when I wasn't hearing anything from them.


----------



## Turin74

Apologies, missed the fact she filled 1st. Actually it kind of proves my point. Imho, she is not scared, she's playing her game to the plan. .. but who cares, as you are going through yours. Wish you yhe best and stay strong as your strength is your best friend these days




dadof2 said:


> Turin74 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dadof2, Obviously they're is a multi layer plan in place. They (stbxw, mil and likely om) are trying at the same time to a) set you up for the future divorce on terms favorable for them; b) paint your as a bad guy, so their ego and reputation is intact, and c) most brazen, to get you to help them with transitioning your kids to their mother's new relationship.
> 
> 
> They also intend to keep you confused and on the fence until they have their ducks in the row.
> 
> I'd counter that by a) cutting off all channels they can get the info about you as much as possible; b) doing something they don't expect , like filing.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_
> 
> 
> 
> She filed against me and just received my response last week. I truly think the response scared her and that made her make the phone call last week asking to go to counseling. I think now she has her feet under her and is using the "babysitting" story as an excuse to be at his house all of the time.
> 
> I plan to go dark again now that we are in this stage of the D process. Things were better for me the last 2 weeks when I wasn't hearing anything from them.
Click to expand...

 _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## GusPolinski

sandc said:


> Take the apology. His alignment is chaotic neutral. You never know what he'll do.


Dude, I'm all about lawful good, even when folks can't see it.

"I'm hitting you because it's the right thing to do! Also, I have a badge." :smthumbup:

As for Bandit... Watch out for that guy. He's shifty. One minute he's your best friend and the next minute he's cracking "errant weiner" jokes at your WW's expense.

Oh wait... I guess I did that as well. :scratchhead:


----------



## dadof2

Turin74 said:


> Apologies, missed the fact she filled 1st. Actually it kind of proves my point. Imho, she is not scared, she's playing her game to the plan. .. but who cares, as you are going through yours. Wish you yhe best and stay strong as your strength is your best friend these days
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


I am starting to agree with you. She is not scared, this has been her plan all along. She doesn't want R she wants more custody and less for kids to be around me. I am truly amazed at the amount of lies she has told. I replayed our conversation from this morning and it's clear. She just says they way things are for the kids is not right. Nothing about them needing a mom and a dad, just that they are being swapped around too much. She said she wants us to be more civil. I told her we haven't spoken in a month that seems pretty civil.

She has not been honest with me since any of this began. Now she is babysitting his kids and bringing my kids to his house- it makes me sick to my stomach. I fully expect her next move to be to push for more custody.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Clay2013

Does her family have money? Does she have anyone to pay for her attorney? If not then I would fight for fully custody. I would not talk to her anymore. I would make it clear if anyone from her family calls your done and you want fully custody. You might not get it but you will at least have there full attention and you can negotiate for other things as the divorce moves forward. 

Clay


----------



## Affaircare

dadof2 said:


> I am starting to agree with you. She is not scared, this has been her plan all along. She doesn't want R she wants more custody and less for kids to be around me. I am truly amazed at the amount of lies she has told. I replayed our conversation from this morning and it's clear. *She just says they way things are for the kids is not right. Nothing about them needing a mom and a dad, just that they are being swapped around too much. *She said she wants us to be more civil. I told her we haven't spoken in a month that seems pretty civil.


Do2: Yes I agree, they are swapped around entirely too much. Thus I intend to go for joint legal custody and primary physical custody. I'm sure the judge will consider liberal visitation since you are so busy "babysitting" the OM's kids. My plan is to keep them out of summer camp 7 days a week and actually parent them.


----------



## sandc

She is literally trying to cut you out of the picture and paste him in. 

It's sounding like you father hasn't spoken with the higher ups at the school yet. Or if he has they don't really care. If OM's job was at stake I have to think he'd have thrown her under the bus. So it sounds like nothing's happened yet. I hope your lawyer has plans to depose the school administration when this all goes down. Or maybe after all is said and done a letter or phone call to the local newspaper. Make a great headline; "Hot for teacher: Local school official ruins family while administration stands idly by"

The newspaper I work for would find it newsworthy.


----------



## Turin74

Of course 'right for the kids' in her mindAfter would be for you to magically disapear from the horizon (while paying the max child support), kids happily integrate with new family/om and one day she'll 'be able to tell them the truth about their not caring and abusive biological father'. In sorry, not my intent to trigger you, just the way I see it. After all, if you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you. 

I'm not in US, can't be sure, but does your stbx has a place to live herself? Can you user the fact that om leaves on a trailer to your advantage?

Can you go guns blazing for full custody? After all they put you in a nothing to loose situation, they should be very worried about that. 




dadof2 said:


> Turin74 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apologies, missed the fact she filled 1st. Actually it kind of proves my point. Imho, she is not scared, she's playing her game to the plan. .. but who cares, as you are going through yours. Wish you yhe best and stay strong as your strength is your best friend these days
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_
> 
> 
> 
> I am starting to agree with you. She is not scared, this has been her plan all along. She doesn't want R she wants more custody and less for kids to be around me. I am truly amazed at the amount of lies she has told. I replayed our conversation from this morning and it's clear. She just says they way things are for the kids is not right. Nothing about them needing a mom and a dad, just that they are being swapped around too much. She said she wants us to be more civil. I told her we haven't spoken in a month that seems pretty civil.
> 
> She has not been honest with me since any of this began. Now she is babysitting his kids and bringing my kids to his house- it makes me sick to my stomach. I fully expect her next move to be to push for more custody.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

 _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> I am starting to agree with you. She is not scared, this has been her plan all along. She doesn't want R she wants more custody and less for kids to be around me. I am truly amazed at the amount of lies she has told. I replayed our conversation from this morning and it's clear. She just says they way things are for the kids is not right. Nothing about them needing a mom and a dad, just that they are being swapped around too much. She said she wants us to be more civil. I told her we haven't spoken in a month that seems pretty civil.
> 
> She has not been honest with me since any of this began. Now she is babysitting his kids and bringing my kids to his house- it makes me sick to my stomach. I fully expect her next move to be to push for more custody.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You can push the divorce while in counseling.


----------



## GusPolinski

thatbpguy said:


> You can push the divorce while in counseling.


You can also _waste a ton of money_ while in counseling.


----------



## sandc

Text her and say you've reconsidered the MC and she is right. You'll go with her... if she'll drop the RO.


----------



## sandc

GusPolinski said:


> You can also _waste a ton of money_ while in counseling.


Meh... he'd never have to pay because she'd probably have crapped her pants if he agreed to MC. She probably hadn't thought that far ahead.


----------



## GusPolinski

sandc said:


> Text her and say you've reconsidered the MC and she is right. You'll go with her... if she'll drop the RO.


Someone pointed out earlier that he'd do better to have the judge lift the RO after presenting tons of documentation and evidence to support the notion that it was filed w/o merit to begin with. I tend to agree.


----------



## sandc

I agree too. Thing is, this way he's not the road block, she is.


----------



## GusPolinski

Yeah, it'd probably get her lawyer into some sh*t w/ the judge as well. And I'd think that would be just about all he'd need to make the rest of the divorce go as easily as possible for him.


----------



## Squeakr

She claims she is baby sitting the kids as she needs money. You need to file a motion with your attorney to get the money she is collecting as income. As she is required by law to declare it if she is considering it as a second income and he needs to file it as well in order to cover the income. This needs to be pushed just to prove a fact and show her she can't just fly information unquestioned. If she isn't collecting income then her reasoning that you have recorded is a lie and further proof if her intent and deceptions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

Squeakr said:


> She claims she is baby sitting the kids as she needs money. You need to file a motion with your attorney to get the money she is collecting as income. As she is required by law to declare it if she is considering it as a second income and he needs to file it as well in order to cover the income. This needs to be pushed just to prove a fact and show her she can't just fly information unquestioned. If she isn't collecting income then her reasoning that you have recorded is a lie and further proof if her intent and deceptions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

My favorite post of the day. I wish I could like it more.


----------



## dadof2

Squeakr said:


> She claims she is baby sitting the kids as she needs money. You need to file a motion with your attorney to get the money she is collecting as income. As she is required by law to declare it if she is considering it as a second income and he needs to file it as well in order to cover the income. This needs to be pushed just to prove a fact and show her she can't just fly information unquestioned. If she isn't collecting income then her reasoning that you have recorded is a lie and further proof if her intent and deceptions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I thought about this as well. At least make her claim it for taxes or something. I'm sure my lawyer can find a way to go after this. She was floored when I told her today that STBX is babysitting OM children
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

dadof2 said:


> I thought about this as well. At least make her claim it for taxes or something. I'm sure my lawyer can find a way to go after this. She was floored when I told her today that STBX is babysitting OM children
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep. Outside the box thinking to refute her claims and legally use them against her. Failure to declare income isn't something that is looked kindly upon. Since he is administration he is still in school full time so she should be a full time babysitter then unless his ex is watching them sometimes, in which the ex may be interested in knowing that his latest squeeze is watching and exposed to her children. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> I thought about this as well. At least make her claim it for taxes or something. I'm sure my lawyer can find a way to go after this. She was floored when I told her today that STBX is babysitting OM children


It may be legit. He prolly has lots on his plate now that school is out for the summer... lots of married teacher tail to chase after, and all of them w/ loads of free time to play.


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> I am starting to agree with you. She is not scared, this has been her plan all along. She doesn't want R she wants more custody and less for kids to be around me. I am truly amazed at the amount of lies she has told. I replayed our conversation from this morning and it's clear. She just says they way things are for the kids is not right. Nothing about them needing a mom and a dad, just that they are being swapped around too much. She said she wants us to be more civil. I told her we haven't spoken in a month that seems pretty civil.
> 
> She has not been honest with me since any of this began. Now she is babysitting his kids and bringing my kids to his house- it makes me sick to my stomach. I fully expect her next move to be to push for more custody.


My ex won full custody of his 2 children in a 1999. They were in MD if this helps.

She cheated and moved out to live with the OM. She was doing drugs and is an alcoholic.

He brought his concerns to the court and asked that the judge order her to take a drug test before she could have any unsupervised time with the kids.

Well she knew that the drug test would be dirty so she postponed it for over 6 months until she could test clean.

That set up 6 months of him having primary custody and her only supervised visitation. By that time it did not matter that she tested clean. She pissed the judge off by waiting over 6 months to take the test. He was awarded 100% custody. She got minimal visitation.

Food for thought.


----------



## turnera

Affaircare said:


> Do2: Yes I agree, they are swapped around entirely too much. Thus I intend to go for joint legal custody and primary physical custody. I'm sure the judge will consider liberal visitation since you are so busy "babysitting" the OM's kids. My plan is to keep them out of summer camp 7 days a week and actually parent them.


Actually, I wouldn't tell her such a thing. It would give her more impetus to strike harder. I'd just stay silent, bite my tongue, or even better, lead her on to believe I'd let her have what she wants, so she lets her guard down until trial date. Then let my lawyer do his magic and shock the hell out of her.

btw, dad, I assume the OM's divorced? Have you told his ex what's going on?


----------



## honcho

Well in the been there done that. I did file a motion for her to produce records of her income for her “second” job. Judge granted it, her atty filed motion after motion for delays to produce the records. It took over 4 months of legal process to finally get an answer on the record and that really was a joke too.


----------



## Dyokemm

Keep contacting the school boars and district....do not let that pressure die off.

The possibility of them losing their jobs is STILL the best option you have for bringing her to YOUR terms on custody, splitting assets, etc.


----------



## BjornFree

At this point you need to be in the frame of mind that your wife and her family are one step ahead of you and they have been all along. When your lawyer hit her with the paperwork she got scared and every move she has made has been to gain some purchase. I'd say amp up the pressure.


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

You are getting stronger. With Gus, Bandit and Warlock cracking jokes one cannot help but find spirit to fight on.

Exposure has helped. Can you take it a bit further? Perhaps you do not have physiological proof that POSOM and STBXW have swapped body fluids. But you can go to Cheaterville with something like this:



> X School Assistant Principal POSOM has destroyed the marriage of his colleague. She filed for divorce shortly after she accepted employment as a live in babysitter to his children. She now resides in his trailer park home along her own children when they are not in summer camp.


----------



## GusPolinski




----------



## Chaparral

Has your dad asked the school.board member if any action is going to be taken?


----------



## convert

I like the cheaterville stuff but i would hold off until the RO hearing.
It might give them (WW, MIL, OM) more ammo.

when you do the cheaterville post stay with the facts (facts only) and be sure to put both of them on their


and you might wait until the custody is all settled.
the judge could see this as being vindictive and petty and maybe it is, but it still feels good

you need to look like a calm and rational person in the eyes of the judge

I still think exposure is key but you can't look like a crazy man when you do it.

I agree with Chaparrel having you dad asked the school board member would be safe


----------



## VeryHurt

Sorry if this was already asked but how old are the OM's children?


----------



## dadof2

The school board official called my dad yesterday and told him that he would have to file the compliant. The school board member cannot file it on his behalf. My dad called the appropriate party and told him about the affair. The administrator asked if STBX had rebuffed OM any and that she would need to be the one to press for any sexual harassment. He said he would look into the workout schedule after school, but it sounds like as long as its consensual then they can't do a whole lot about it. I don't know where it will go, but at least people know about the affair. The school board member said he did talk with the principal and made him aware of the situation.

OM's kids are around 10-12 I believe. I am not sure. STBX's sister called me this morning out of the blue. I didn't want to talk to any of the in-laws anymore, but the sis lives in another state and is wise to STBX's games. She just asked how the kids were and made small talk. I told her a little about what has been going on and she said she hasn't spoken to her sister in over a month. The sister is very rational and very strong willed. For STBX not to talk to her during this time shows that she is afraid that sis will not tolerate her games like her parents seem to be doing. I told sis that I hate this situation but STBX made this bed and she has to lay in it. I told her I am not willing to see her or even talk to her anymore. She understood and offered her home to me and the kids on a weekend to come visit.


----------



## tom67

SIL is the only one not rug sweeping or enabling.
So at least there is one.
After your hearing why don't you file a formal complaint just a thought.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> The school board official called my dad yesterday and told him that he would have to file the compliant. The school board member cannot file it on his behalf. My dad called the appropriate party and told him about the affair. The administrator asked if STBX had rebuffed OM any and that she would need to be the one to press for any sexual harassment. He said he would look into the workout schedule after school, but it sounds like as long as its consensual then they can't do a whole lot about it. I don't know where it will go, but at least people know about the affair. The school board member said he did talk with the principal and made him aware of the situation.
> 
> OM's kids are around 10-12 I believe. I am not sure. STBX's sister called me this morning out of the blue. I didn't want to talk to any of the in-laws anymore, but the sis lives in another state and is wise to STBX's games. She just asked how the kids were and made small talk. I told her a little about what has been going on and she said she hasn't spoken to her sister in over a month. The sister is very rational and very strong willed. For STBX not to talk to her during this time shows that she is afraid that sis will not tolerate her games like her parents seem to be doing. I told sis that I hate this situation but STBX made this bed and she has to lay in it. I told her I am not willing to see her or even talk to her anymore. *She understood and offered her home to me and the kids on a weekend to come visit.*


LOL. If you're looking to create any sort of rift within your STBXW's family, that'd probably be the way to do it. 

Either way, you'd be wise to refrain from saying too much to any of them.


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> LOL. If you're looking to create any sort of rift within your STBXW's family, that'd probably be the way to do it.
> 
> *Either way, you'd be wise to refrain from saying too much to any of them.*


Yes after speaking to STBX and MIL yesterday I had made up my mind I was done talking to their family. But I had texted SIL last over the weekend and she just got around to calling me. I was very careful with my words but I know she is the lone wolf in that family. She doesnt have any influence on her sister, but she at least validates my feelings that STBX has gone off the deep end.


----------



## Chaparral

Have you asked your attorney if you have grounds to sue the school?


----------



## convert

Is her sister married?
What does she look like?

I am just kidding, I have been reading too any of Guspolinski's posts 

I know Gus was thinking it.


----------



## GusPolinski

convert said:


> Is her sister married?
> What does she look like?
> 
> I am just kidding, I have been too any of Guspolinski's posts


:lol: I was actually going to reply w/ the same thing earlier but decided not to.


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> :lol: I was actually going to reply w/ the same thing earlier but decided not to.


Now my xw is my new sil:wtf:


----------



## tom67

tom67 said:


> Now my xw is my new sil:wtf:


Family gatherings would be...interesting??


----------



## dadof2

Chaparral said:


> Have you asked your attorney if you have grounds to sue the school?


Yes I asked and there is no grounds for it. Any kind of suit would have to come from STBX against the school for fostering an environment of harassment. The only play I would have would be alienation of affection, but that is not recognized in my state.

I have even thought about talking to STBX and feeling her out about the following scenario: If she is truly willing to have our family together, I will not get back with her while she is still working at the same school as OM. It looks like I cannot get him removed, but she can. I would suggest that she make a complaint against him and he would be gone, then and ONLY then would I consider R. But right now I don't think she would go for it.

The sis is very good looking, but she is married to a pretty cool guy. STBX is a looker as well, it is just a shame that she is so ugly on the inside.


----------



## GusPolinski

tom67 said:


> Now my xw is my new sil:wtf:


Ha! "Aunt Mommy!"

Actually, one of my wife's younger (second) cousins used to call their aunt "mama tía", which roughly translates to "mother aunt". She basically raised him.

I also used to know an older woman who, along w/ her daughter, married a pair of brothers.

What was is that Bandit called me the other day? Oh yeah...

Hillbilly.

:lol:


----------



## VeryHurt

convert said:


> Is her sister married?
> What does she look like?
> 
> I am just kidding, I have been reading too any of Guspolinski's posts
> 
> I know Gus was thinking it.


You guys crack me up !!!!!!!!!!:rofl:
VH


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> I have even thought about talking to STBX and feeling her out about the following scenario: If she is truly willing to have our family together, I will not get back with her while she is still working at the same school as OM.


PLEASE don't do this. It is WEAK WEAK WEAK. And she will never learn, never hit rock bottom, if you're just sitting there giving her options.


----------



## thatbpguy

Ya know, I really do support R in general, but considering how you're been played and all I think you'd be best served by circling the wagons and making a better life for you and your kids. Your stbx is broken.


----------



## jim123

dadof2 said:


> Yes I asked and there is no grounds for it. Any kind of suit would have to come from STBX against the school for fostering an environment of harassment. The only play I would have would be alienation of affection, but that is not recognized in my state.
> 
> I have even thought about talking to STBX and feeling her out about the following scenario: If she is truly willing to have our family together, I will not get back with her while she is still working at the same school as OM. It looks like I cannot get him removed, but she can. I would suggest that she make a complaint against him and he would be gone, then and ONLY then would I consider R. But right now I don't think she would go for it.
> 
> The sis is very good looking, but she is married to a pretty cool guy. STBX is a looker as well, it is just a shame that she is so ugly on the inside.


This is mostly correct. Your WW will have a case because he is in a higher position. She would more than likely win. 

I would give the information to the board at the monthly meeting in the public section part at the end.

Once the have the information and do not act, it opens them to a greater liability in the future.

Please take the RO serious. If it stands it will impact custody.


----------



## dadof2

turnera said:


> PLEASE don't do this. It is *WEAK WEAK WEAK*. And she will never learn, never hit rock bottom, if you're just sitting there giving her options.


You're right. I had a weak moment this afternoon going through the recordings on my VAR. I listened to our conversation from last week when she was asking about trying to R. It made me lose focus temporarily.

Yes this is a very bad betrayal. And she makes it even worse by calling last week and giving me the fake "let's try to make this work" speech. My lawyer called me this afternoon to check on me and she told me not to lose focus. She said STBX may be trying to manipulate me into a quick night together. Once we spend the night or have sex, then the affair goes away. Lawyer said she has seen it happen before.


----------



## helolover

turnera said:


> PLEASE don't do this. It is WEAK WEAK WEAK. And she will never learn, never hit rock bottom, if you're just sitting there giving her options.


also:

Iron Rule of Tomassi #7
"It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship. Never root through the trash once the garbage has been dragged to the curb. You get messy, your neighbors see you do it, and what you thought was worth digging for is never as valuable as you thought it was."


----------



## barbados

DadOf2

R should NEVER be an option in a case like yours. Your WW is scum. There is no other way to put it. I have been a member here for 2 years, and she is one of the WORST WW I have every heard of.

You have done so much right in such a bad situation, please don't ruin it by even thinking of R ! She is playing you !

DO NOT BECOME ROAD SCHOLAR !! (read his thread)

Even he did not put up with the level of evil the you WW has put you through !


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> you're right. I had a weak moment this afternoon going through the recordings on my var. I listened to our conversation from last week when she was asking about trying to r. It made me lose focus temporarily.
> 
> Yes this is a very bad betrayal. And she makes it even worse by calling last week and giving me the fake "let's try to make this work" speech. My lawyer called me this afternoon to check on me and she told me not to lose focus. She said stbx may be trying to manipulate me into a quick night together. Once we spend the night or have sex, then the affair goes away. Lawyer said she has seen it happen before.


Don't do it! Don't you dare!!!


----------



## honcho

He had a weak moment, we all do. He quickly realized it and pulled himself back into reality. He is way ahead of where many of us were at this point given his timeline. Its great your attorney called and gave you some “watch out for” items today also. Would be great if more would do this.


----------



## Dyokemm

dadof2,

The district looks like a dead end to you now I know...but this is simply their way of trying to slow the situation down and hope you drop it....I've seen it many times before in my district.

If you want action from them, this is when you have to really go hardball.

Inform the principal and district HR that if they will do nothing to separate the AP's, you will be taking steps to inform the PTA and parents at the site about the environment the administrators and district are allowing to continue at their children's school.

You will make it clear to the parents that the district is fine allowing children to witness a teacher they know is M have an illicit relationship with a school vice-principal...and I can tell you as discreet as these idiots think they have been, the kids pick up on it.

I remember when an A happened at a previous school I taught at, the student's were gossiping about the guilty parties before the sh*t actually hit the fan with their M's and partners.

Also, tell the district you will be contacting the state Board of Education to let them know of the immoral conduct they are allowing to continue on their campus.

If the district thinks their is even a remote possibility that you will follow through on this, they will at the least force an immediate transfer of either your WW or the POS VP.

This is exactly the type of public scandal districts fear most.

You will almost assuredly get action...I have seen these types of situations play out several times.


----------



## warlock07

What kind of idiotic school is that...condoning affair that happen within their premises....


Maybe a PR hit would make them more pro-active about the whole thing...


----------



## happyman64

Dadof2 needs to talk to the other women from the exercise calls.

Maybe one of them is disgruntled???

Did the PI turn up any other evidence on the OM?

How did his first marriage end?


----------



## dadof2

happyman64 said:


> Dadof2 needs to talk to the other women from the exercise calls.
> 
> Maybe one of them is disgruntled???
> 
> Did the PI turn up any other evidence on the OM?
> 
> How did his first marriage end?


PI looked into OM's divorce filing, nothing special in there. I am hoping that the judge signs off on the order keeping OM 100 yards away from my kids, that will put a small dent on the babysitting. My PI informed me that once we have ground rules in place for custody, then we can get back out on surveillance and try to catch her breaking the agreement. Once we get enough hits on that, we can go for more custody. I am not ready to go down that road yet, 50/50 was her first offer so I am not complaining.

I just booked a trip for myself to go to NYC over the long July 4th weekend. STBX and I actually had this trip booked but DDay hit one week prior and we cancelled. I have a year to use the flight and hotel credits so I am going for it. I drop the kiddos off Friday morning and then I am heading straight to the airport. Gonna catch a few baseball games and see the sights. I might accidentally post a few pics from the trip on FB for MIL to see...


----------



## tom67

Dyokemm said:


> dadof2,
> 
> The district looks like a dead end to you now I know...but this is simply their way of trying to slow the situation down and hope you drop it....I've seen it many times before in my district.
> 
> If you want action from them, this is when you have to really go hardball.
> 
> Inform the principal and district HR that if they will do nothing to separate the AP's, you will be taking steps to inform the PTA and parents at the site about the environment the administrators and district are allowing to continue at their children's school.
> 
> You will make it clear to the parents that the district is fine allowing children to witness a teacher they know is M have an illicit relationship with a school vice-principal...and I can tell you as discreet as these idiots think they have been, the kids pick up on it.
> 
> I remember when an A happened at a previous school I taught at, the student's were gossiping about the guilty parties before the sh*t actually hit the fan with their M's and partners.
> 
> Also, tell the district you will be contacting the state Board of Education to let them know of the immoral conduct they are allowing to continue on their campus.
> 
> If the district thinks their is even a remote possibility that you will follow through on this, they will at the least force an immediate transfer of either your WW or the POS VP.
> 
> This is exactly the type of public scandal districts fear most.
> 
> You will almost assuredly get action...I have seen these types of situations play out several times.


This^^^ 
When you come back from your trip have fun you deserve it.


----------



## convert

If it was me I would block MIL and ww from FB


----------



## just got it 55

dadof2 said:


> PI looked into OM's divorce filing, nothing special in there. I am hoping that the judge signs off on the order keeping OM 100 yards away from my kids, that will put a small dent on the babysitting. My PI informed me that once we have ground rules in place for custody, then we can get back out on surveillance and try to catch her breaking the agreement. Once we get enough hits on that, we can go for more custody. I am not ready to go down that road yet, 50/50 was her first offer so I am not complaining.
> 
> I just booked a trip for myself to go to NYC over the long July 4th weekend. STBX and I actually had this trip booked but DDay hit one week prior and we cancelled. I have a year to use the flight and hotel credits so I am going for it. I drop the kiddos off Friday morning and then I am heading straight to the airport. Gonna catch a few baseball games and see the sights. I might accidentally post a few pics from the trip on FB for MIL to see...


Dad Have fun in NYC

And I hope you are going to Yankee Stadium

I have never had more fun at a baseball game and I am die hard Red Sox Nation

They put on a fun show as well as Yankee Baseball

Just Have fun....... Always

55


----------



## happyman64

dadof2 said:


> PI looked into OM's divorce filing, nothing special in there. I am hoping that the judge signs off on the order keeping OM 100 yards away from my kids, that will put a small dent on the babysitting. My PI informed me that once we have ground rules in place for custody, then we can get back out on surveillance and try to catch her breaking the agreement. Once we get enough hits on that, we can go for more custody. I am not ready to go down that road yet, 50/50 was her first offer so I am not complaining.
> 
> I just booked a trip for myself to go to NYC over the long July 4th weekend. STBX and I actually had this trip booked but DDay hit one week prior and we cancelled. I have a year to use the flight and hotel credits so I am going for it. I drop the kiddos off Friday morning and then I am heading straight to the airport. Gonna catch a few baseball games and see the sights. I might accidentally post a few pics from the trip on FB for MIL to see...


Good for you. Are you bringing a friend?


----------



## warlock07

is PI still necessary at this point?


----------



## happyman64

Only if it helps his case or helps his lawyer with a favorable divorce.


----------



## dadof2

We really don't have a need for the PI right now. We may get back on her in the future if it looks like she is breaking the custody arrangement. This PI specializes in custody cases so they are able to squeeze a lot out of any info they gather. As I said earlier, we aren't ready to go down that road yet.

As far as my trip to NYC, they Yankees are out of town unfortunately. I plan on touring the stadium and catching a Mets game. Its funny that STBX had planned to take this trip in April, but then DDay hit and it was all over with.
I have been talking to an old flame the last couple of weeks, she lives in another state and is divorced, and she has been a lot of help getting through the emotional stages of this separation/divorce. She wanted to come to NYC with me but she has her son for the long weekend. We may get together at another point in the future. I am not ready for any emotional connections right now, but it would be fun to spend a carefree weekend with another babe. Maybe I can look into one of those "girlfriend experience" websites...hmmmmm...


----------



## happyman64

I am out of town for the holidays so I cannot meet you for drinks.

Nor do I know any single woman that are worthy of you.

But don't miss the fireworks Friday night. They are going to great.

And there are plenty of single women to have deep, meaningless conversation with.


----------



## dadof2

happyman64 said:


> I am out of town for the holidays so I cannot meet you for drinks.
> 
> Nor do I know any single woman that are worthy of you.
> 
> But don't miss the fireworks Friday night. They are going to great.
> 
> And there are plenty of single women to have deep, meaningless conversation with.


Yes I have looked into the fireworks. Supposed to be an amazing show. I will be sure not to miss it. If any other TAM'ers will be around NYC this weekend, I would love to meet up and have a drink.


----------



## GusPolinski

Lo siento brochacho, estoy en el este de Texas.


----------



## turnera

Como se dice este?

State? 

Creo que es estado?


----------



## tom67

turnera said:


> Como se dice este?
> 
> State?
> 
> Creo que es estado?


Quieres tres cervesas por favor
y dos novias tambien


----------



## GusPolinski

Ha!


----------



## turnera

lol


----------



## GusPolinski

LOL...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9mdFMOaHlY


----------



## tom67

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking... - YouTube


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> We really don't have a need for the PI right now. We may get back on her in the future if it looks like she is breaking the custody arrangement. This PI specializes in custody cases so they are able to squeeze a lot out of any info they gather. As I said earlier, we aren't ready to go down that road yet.
> 
> As far as my trip to NYC, they Yankees are out of town unfortunately. I plan on touring the stadium and catching a Mets game. Its funny that STBX had planned to take this trip in April, but then DDay hit and it was all over with.
> I have been talking to an old flame the last couple of weeks, she lives in another state and is divorced, and she has been a lot of help getting through the emotional stages of this separation/divorce. She wanted to come to NYC with me but she has her son for the long weekend. We may get together at another point in the future. I am not ready for any emotional connections right now, but it would be fun to spend a carefree weekend with another babe. Maybe I can look into one of those "girlfriend experience" websites...hmmmmm...


A call girl?


----------



## dadof2

EleGirl said:


> A call girl?


I was just making a joke...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> I was just making a joke...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


On the other hand...


----------



## bandit.45

EleGirl said:


> A call girl?


Why not? His money. His d!ck.


----------



## PBear

bandit.45 said:


> Why not? His money. His d!ck.


I can think of a number of reasons. First and foremost, condoms only protect against most things. Plus there's a very large "ewwww!" factor when future prospective partners find out he did the nasty with a paid professional. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

PBear said:


> I can think of a number of reasons. First and foremost, condoms only protect against most things. Plus there's a very large "ewwww!" factor when future prospective partners find out he did the nasty with a paid professional.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's his business.


----------



## bandit.45

And for the record, any woman he would meet at a bar or nightclub, and then takes back to the hotel could just as easily be infected with as many nasties as a hooker. Prostitutes don't have the corner on the market for STDs.


----------



## doubletrouble

Deleted...


----------



## ariel_angel77

bandit.45 said:


> And for the record, any woman he would meet at a bar or nightclub, and then takes back to the hotel could just as easily be infected with as many nasties as a hooker. Prostitutes don't have the corner on the market for STDs.


Really? You think he should sleep with prostitutes because "other women *might* have the same STDs"?

Other women that he meet don't have sex for money with several nasty guys a week (which in itself is most of the 'eww' factor), along with having been with hundreds upon hundreds plus men. Sorry, but the prostitute is more likely to have several awful STDs.

I do agree that it's his business. Sorry OP for the threadjack and I know you were just joking when you said it but just wanted to point out how crazy that logic was. lol


----------



## Racer

ariel_angel77 said:


> Sorry, but the prostitute is more likely to have several awful STDs.


We could get into it, however at the reputable services, their employees regularly get tested. Something the bar fly doesn't do. Why? Because they are reputable and the last thing they want is that kind of word to get out. But it's impossible to sort out the reputable from not because it's all illegal. Sort of like finding an honest drug dealer....


----------



## bandit.45

Racer said:


> We could get into it, however at the reputable services, their employees regularly get tested. Something the bar fly doesn't do. Why? Because they are reputable and the last thing they want is that kind of word to get out. But it's impossible to sort out the reputable from not because it's all illegal. Sort of like finding an honest drug dealer....


The Bunny Ranch and all those NV brothels would not stay in business if their girls were infecting clients left and right. They have to submit to monthly blood tests and check ups to keep their licenses.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> The Bunny Ranch and all those NV brothels would not stay in business if their girls were infecting clients left and right. They have to submit to monthly blood tests and check ups to keep their licenses.


Same thing in Costa Rica.


----------



## Chuck71

checked in to see how D2 was doing

what a can on worms we all have opened LOL


----------



## dadof2

Chuck71 said:


> checked in to see how D2 was doing
> 
> what a can on worms we all have opened LOL


Hey guys, been enjoying my weekend in NYC. I head home tomorrow morning. All in all I glad I took the trip. I came up here by myself hoping to unwind and clear my head a little. STBX and I came here a few years ago and that was both of our first times here. There have been a few triggers of things we did together here. But I also have had more than one occasion where something would happen (wrong turn on subway, etc) where I thought to myself "STBX would be hysterical right now" but I could simply stop and regroup and find my way. She had no patience for those kind of situations.

I have had a lot of time to think about things and I just can't get past how much I miss my children. I don't know if I can ever forgive her for causing me to lose valuable time in my kids' lives. By her stupid choice our family has been broke apart. I want that family back. But I realize that that dream is gone. It has really set in on me how much I hate the fact that I can't be in my childrens' lives every single day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Dadof2

I love my kids too.

But cherish the time you do have them. You cannot control anything else.

Your wife made that decision for you. It is just a fact.

Glad you had a good time in NY.

HM


----------



## tryingpatience

dadof2 said:


> Hey guys, been enjoying my weekend in NYC. I head home tomorrow morning. All in all I glad I took the trip. I came up here by myself hoping to unwind and clear my head a little. STBX and I came here a few years ago and that was both of our first times here. There have been a few triggers of things we did together here. But I also have had more than one occasion where something would happen (wrong turn on subway, etc) where I thought to myself "STBX would be hysterical right now" but I could simply stop and regroup and find my way. She had no patience for those kind of situations.
> 
> I have had a lot of time to think about things and I just can't get past how much I miss my children. I don't know if I can ever forgive her for causing me to lose valuable time in my kids' lives. By her stupid choice our family has been broke apart. I want that family back. But I realize that that dream is gone. It has really set in on me how much I hate the fact that I can't be in my childrens' lives every single day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know where you are right now. I had my kids this past week while I was on vacation. We share them 50/50. After dropping them off with the ex the feelings of hate came back. Then I remembered that this is my reality. So I just said f*ck her and started planning what cool things I'd do the next time the kids were with me. Yes she messed up everything but I won't get stuck in that mess with her.

From our discussions dadof2 I know that she won't measure up to you. Like my ex yours can't handle the pressure and stress. You've put in more effort, your kids will know that home is where dad is.


----------



## harrybrown

I hope that you do get more time with them in the near future.

I also hope that someday she will apologize for messing up her family. 

But do not hold your breath.


----------



## happyman64

"You've put in more effort, your kids will know that home is where dad is."

And this what matters most.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

sounds like my nights at the lake a couple miles from home

in the end, you will come out on top..... patience


----------



## barbados

dadof2 said:


> I have had a lot of time to think about things and I just can't get past how much I miss my children. I don't know if I can ever forgive her for causing me to lose valuable time in my kids' lives. By her stupid choice our family has been broke apart. I want that family back. But I realize that that dream is gone. It has really set in on me how much I hate the fact that I can't be in my childrens' lives every single day.


NOT A REASON TO R ! 

You will make quality time with you kids when they are with you.

She will cheat on you every chance she gets if you R with her, and it will be an EPIC FALSE R !

Like I said in my last post, I believe your (hopefully) STBXW is truly evil and is scum. She took YOUR kids to POSOM's like she was already divorced, like you were dead !

Stay the course. You have a mountain of evidence against her, and in time the kids will be all on your side.


----------



## tom67

harrybrown said:


> I hope that you do get more time with them in the near future.
> 
> I also hope that someday she will apologize for messing up her family.
> 
> But do not hold your breath.


Yes you'll end up looking like the guys from blue man group.


----------



## bandit.45

ariel_angel77 said:


> Really? You think he should sleep with prostitutes because "other women *might* have the same STDs"?
> 
> Other women that he meet don't have sex for money with several nasty guys a week (which in itself is most of the 'eww' factor), along with having been with hundreds upon hundreds plus men. Sorry, but the prostitute is more likely to have several awful STDs.
> 
> I do agree that it's his business. Sorry OP for the threadjack and I know you were just joking when you said it but just wanted to point out how crazy that logic was. lol


I'm not encouraging him to. I don't hire hookers. Not because of the principle but because I'm cheap and greedy. I don't want to lay out that kind of cash for a high price call girl.

But the notion that single women who go clubbing every weekend and sleep with dozens of men are somehow inherently "cleaner" or more disease-free than say a high class, in-call escort is a myth.


----------



## ariel_angel77

bandit.45 said:


> I'm not encouraging him to. I don't hire hookers. Not because of the principle but because I'm cheap and greedy. I don't want to lay out that kind of cash for a high price call girl.
> 
> But the notion that single women who go clubbing every weekend and sleep with dozens of men are somehow inherently "cleaner" or more disease-free than say a high class, in-call escort is a myth.


Yeah, I get what you're saying.  I think they're both pretty bad to sleep with. I'm just a traditional gal I guess. I believe in waiting for marriage. Most people laugh in my face for believing that way.


----------



## ariel_angel77

dadof2, I've been following your story. I'm much too young and inexperienced to give you any constructive advice past what everyone else has given, but I hope you're really enjoying yourself and focusing on YOU, and cleaning your system of your STBX. You are so lucky to get to go to NYC. I could only dream of getting to go there one day. I really hope it helped your healing process.


----------



## Bobby5000

Apparently while other moms were teaching their daughters how to make cupcakes, she was teaching her how to lie. Learn from the master she apparently said. No one here has any doubt the mother in law was completely aware.


----------



## WyshIknew

Bobby5000 said:


> Apparently while other moms were teaching their daughters how to make cupcakes, she was teaching her how to lie. Learn from the master she apparently said. No one here has any doubt the mother in law was completely aware.


Shouldn't that be "learn from the mistress"


----------



## clipclop2

Whatever. Slimy business that all future women will think badly of him. So he will lie to hide his shame. Great way to move forward.

Think with your ****. It is always the right thing to do.


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> I'm not encouraging him to. I don't hire hookers. Not because of the principle but because I'm cheap and greedy. I don't want to lay out that kind of cash for a high price call girl.
> 
> But the notion that single women who go clubbing every weekend and sleep with dozens of men are somehow inherently "cleaner" or more disease-free than say a high class, in-call escort is a myth.


Thankfully there are more than just those two choices.


----------



## Foghorn

dadof2 said:


> I have had a lot of time to think about things and I just can't get past how much I miss my children. I don't know if I can ever forgive her for causing me to lose valuable time in my kids' lives. By her stupid choice our family has been broke apart. I want that family back. But I realize that that dream is gone. It has really set in on me how much I hate the fact that I can't be in my childrens' lives every single day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dear Dad

I have been following your story. Your wife did an ugly thing and blew up your family, and you and your children are paying for it - and will continue to pay for it. The realization of this can be one of the worst "ice water in the face" moments of an affair and divorce, even worse than the affair itself. What she did took them away from you. It's sickening.

I want to offer you support and point out that this situation, while certainly not the way you wanted it, doesn't have to be as bad as it seems right now. You now have the opportunity to build a relationship with the children that will not be filtered, modified, endorsed, approved or changed by the STBEX. For example - kids want to go fishing? Take them fishing. Fish all day, get real tired. Instead of getting nagged to go home? Take them to a restaurant or drive through. Eat in the park.

Let them play in the hose. Plan camping trips. Buy a t-ball set and let them hit balls all evening until dark. When you have them, they're YOURS. She doesn't get to tell you how to parent. Sleep on the living room floor and have a campout. Watch 3 Disney movies in a row. Have chocolate scones for breakfast. Build your loving relationships with the kids. And not a bad word about Mommy. That is their mother and they love her so much, they need her to be special. They're not old enough to take all this in. Someday, they will figure it all out on their own. But not yet.

Some other thoughts - insist on and continue to take part in Parent Teacher conferences. Attending sports outings. Take them to the doctor and dentist. Talk to the school counselor about this mess (remember, you're taking it public, right?) and say, "Can you recommend a child psychologist?" Take them to visits and help them get their arms around this. The family has changed for them too. It's probably harder for them than it is for you. Buy them some good books (like "Two Homes" by Claire Masurel). Lift them up and set an example through this. You are calm, loving, fun and will be there for them, just like you always have been. Nothing about your love for them changed. And in some ways, you might make time for them and the time with them be more special.

I am not just glad-handing you, to make you feel better. I know Dads who have been through this. The fairest deal is a 50-50- split, and during your "50%" make sure you are emotionally present, ready to talk, play, toss a ball, buy ice cream cones, or just snuggle. Be the Best Dad. Nobody and nothing can take your love for them away.

PM me if needed - we're here for you buddy.
-FH


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Wish it were that simple Foghorn... I've got a coworker right now that has an ex "coaching" the kids to hate him. The 13 year old daughter just told him "I don't need a Dad." So though I agree that he can really create some magical moments with his kids, he may still face some extremely difficult moments with his kids emotions depending on how they are coached away from him. My mother did the same thing.

So I would add... yes, make ever magical moment you can because somewhere down the road it WILL matter.... just know there are risks for tough times and how you navigate those will be just as important and remembered.


----------



## Foghorn

Blossom Leigh said:


> Wish it were that simple Foghorn... I've got a coworker right now that has an ex "coaching" the kids to hate him. The 13 year old daughter just told him "I don't need a Dad." So though I agree that he can really create some magical moments with his kids, he may still face some extremely difficult moments with his kids emotions depending on how they are coached away from him. My mother did the same thing.
> 
> So I would add... yes, make ever magical moment you can because somewhere down the road it WILL matter.... just know there are risks for tough times and how you navigate those will be just as important and remembered.


Hi Blossom

I don't think I said it was "simple"... ;-)

I know what you speak of, it's called Parental Alienation Syndrome and it is common. Many times Dad gets singed because the ex is talking him down to the kids. There are ways to fight it. And one does not have to take part in it, in a reverse "war of attrition". 

I was hoping to say some encouraging things to Dadof2... which are true... because I think he feels pretty bad. 

It isn't easy, no matter what. Kids are pretty savvy though and in the long run, they will probably figure out who is the parent on the clean side of the street, and which other parent screwed the pooch.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Foghorn said:


> Hi Blossom
> 
> I don't think I said it was "simple"... ;-)
> 
> I know what you speak of, it's called Parental Alienation Syndrome and it is common. Many times Dad gets singed because the ex is talking him down to the kids. There are ways to fight it. And one does not have to take part in it, in a reverse "war of attrition".
> 
> I was hoping to say some encouraging things to Dadof2... which are true... because I think he feels pretty bad.
> 
> It isn't easy, no matter what. Kids are pretty savvy though and in the long run, they will probably figure out who is the parent on the clean side of the street, and which other parent screwed the pooch.


true... you may not have said simple... the description just "felt" simple to me because I lived through it as the child who had to wade through the lies told to me. At the age of 21 I estranged from my birth dad and didn't reconcile until 33. That's twelve years of separation. I only had good memories of my birth dad, but the lies STILL affected my choices for many years until I came out of the fog of abuse at the hands of my mother and step father. I didn't begin to step out of that fog until 33 and I'm still shaking it on some levels and I'll be 45 this year. Encouragement is GREAT!! and I truly hope his situation in no way ends up like mine or my co-worker's... just wanted to throw some salt of potentiality on your description. Do maximize those opportunities, but your childs choices sometimes happen independently of those efforts, but do them anyway because in my case it mattered greatly when I was cutting out the lies and DID help.


----------



## clipclop2

bandit, your posts often offend me. You find life unfair and obviously believe women have an advantage over you/men. That's what thinking with your **** tells you is the truth. Women who sleaze around have their own hell to deal with. There isn't a double standard. Sleazy behavior is sleazy behavior.

It is that simple.


----------



## MattMatt

clipclop2 said:


> *bandit, your posts often offend me. * You find life unfair and obviously believe women have an advantage over you/men. That's what thinking with your **** tells you is the truth. Women who sleaze around have their own hell to deal with. There isn't a double standard. Sleazy behavior is sleazy behavior.
> 
> It is that simple.


Well now, here's another thing that's that simple. If you find someone's posts so offensive, you do realise it is not compulsory to read them, right?:scratchhead:

And there's even an "ignore" function, too! How crazy is *that?*:smthumbup:


----------



## clipclop2

It isn't available in Tapatalk.


----------



## Stillasamountain

clipclop2 said:


> It isn't available in Tapatalk.



I run Tapatalk as well. When I manually ignore posters I don't like... it seems to work just fine.

Go figure.

And I, for one, love Bandit's rough and tumble style.


----------



## clipclop2

He has his moments...


----------



## MattMatt

clipclop2 said:


> He has his moments...


Bandit has helped me a great deal. More than he could ever know.


----------



## Nucking Futs

How about taking this thread jack to pm.


----------



## 3putt

tdwal said:


> I think Bandit is great too.


He's okay by me as well. I don't even see what the problem is here.


----------



## LongWalk

Bandit has his good and bad sides. He is not boring or PC. I like ClipClop a lot, too. TAM needs its characters.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## farsidejunky

Let's not let our disagreements become divisions. Back to OP.


----------



## Augusto

Then go for 100% custody. They deserve to be around a parent that would never hurt them by causing a divorce and having an affair. When she left the marriage, she left them as well because she did not put their welfare first at all. She has shown her true motives. And contact the OM's X and let her know what is happening. Perhaps a restraining order for her kids to your wife would make some fireworks.


----------



## BetrayedAgain7

clipclop2 said:


> bandit, your posts often offend me. You find life unfair and obviously believe women have an advantage over you/men. That's what thinking with your **** tells you is the truth.


Funny, his posts never offend me, I don't have a **** and think along the same line as he does. So your theory of what he finds unfair and what he believes about women is just that. A theory based on your own projections and assumptions.

He writes a lot of truth which many men need to read and understand.


----------



## BashfulB

Bandit helped me a lot during the first few weeks after my DDay. 

He says what he means and means what he says. I personally appreciate his non politically correct way of calling b.s. when he sees it. I say we need more posters like him who are not afraid to speak their mind, no matter how much we may disagree with them.


----------



## bandit.45

clipclop2 said:


> bandit, your posts often offend me. You find life unfair and obviously believe women have an advantage over you/men. That's what thinking with your **** tells you is the truth. Women who sleaze around have their own hell to deal with. There isn't a double standard. Sleazy behavior is sleazy behavior.
> 
> It is that simple.


Yes I have tendency to shoot my mouth off. I've tried to be good but I just can't keep it up. 

And yes... women do have an advantage over men. Women control the world really, they just don't ALL know it. If all women everywhere came to the realization of the power they possess, all at the same time, we guys would be toast.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

We do realize it... we are just letting you think you have it 

hee hee... just kidding...


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Blossom Leigh said:


> We do realize it... we are just letting you think you have it
> 
> hee hee... just kidding...


or am I .. HAHA I will never tell MUAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAAAAAAA


----------



## bandit.45

Blossom Leigh said:


> or am I .. HAHA I will never tell MUAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAAAAAAA


I went back and edited my post.


----------



## Foghorn

I just want Dadof2 to come back and let us know how he is doing. I am worried about him.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

pretty impressive for us to control the world and not even know it... that's some power right there...


----------



## Chuck71

bandit.45 said:


> Yes I have tendency to shoot my mouth off. I've tried to be good but I just can't keep it up.
> 
> And yes... women do have an advantage over men. Women control the world really, they just don't ALL know it. If all women everywhere came to the realization of the power they possess, all at the same time, we guys would be toast.


like the farmers who could have taken over the world as late

as WW1. When is the last time one large group of people

came together for the betterment of everyone involved?

Somewhere Karl Marx is laughing


----------



## barbados

Is DADof 2 still here ?


----------



## GusPolinski

He last posted on Sunday afternoon. He's probably just got a lot on his plate.

Like a divorce.


----------



## Dyokemm

Hopefully he is potting the finishing touches on the complete obliteration of Fantasyland for his conniving WW and this POS VP.

I'm a teacher myself and I hate scummy people like this and never want to work around them again...in the few times I have seen campus A's at my site I have went out of my way to give a cold-shoulder to the guilty parties and so have many other decent co-workers...of course the cheaters always have their little sympathy clique that sticks by them, but eventually the cheaters always end up transferring sites (and sometimes districts) because they can't stand the stigma.

And in cases where the BS really made a stink, these transfers have been mandatory/involuntary.

Hopefully, dadof2 is making their professional lives living hell.


----------



## dadof2

I am still here, sorry for the delay in posting. Been catching up at work after the vacation. We got STBX's answers to my request for admissions, and she denied the majority of our claims of her being at OM's residence on certain days. My lawyer says we can impeach her on these denials because it is lying under oath.

My lawyer also said this may open the window for me to go for more custody. She suggests I ask for 60/40 in my favor, and then it would swap to 40/60 for the summer. She said the judge actually prefers this method rather than 50/50, but it is usually the mother who gets the 60%. I am seriously considering going for it, but the risk is that it will piss off STBX and she will go for 60% or even full, and being that she is the mother she will more than likely get it. This judge has a reputation for being pro-mom in most situations. I am very stressed about how to handle this situation.

As far as the school district goes, we haven't heard much back on that angle. My dad spoke to a member of the administration and he asked a few questions about what was going on and then said the onus would be on STBX to file a harassment claim. I believe my dad is going to call back today to try to keep their feet to the fire. I'm sure the schoolboard will drag their feet hoping it will go away.


----------



## Clay2013

I kept my kids. All my kids know what kind of a person there mother is. Sadly she is to messed up to see what she did to them. I am thankful everyday I have them. I have pushed hard to show them the difference of right and wrong. Your kids will thank you when they grow up that you fought for them.

Clay


----------



## Blossom Leigh

augh... I do not envy you Dadof2

It like you are having to gear up for a war, studying strategy, thinking of all angles, and yet down the road when these two break up, how will your kids be protected from the next loser she chooses? Its one of the reasons why in my situation I was working so hard on making sure we were great co-parents that I thought, if we can work together on great co parenting then we should be able to reconcile and we have. Its sad she doesn't have that perspective.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Clay2013 said:


> I kept my kids. All my kids know what kind of a person there mother is. Sadly she is to messed up to see what she did to them. I am thankful everyday I have them. I have pushed hard to show them the difference of right and wrong. Your kids will thank you when they grow up that you fought for them.
> 
> Clay


What would have to happen for him to get full custody?


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> I am still here, sorry for the delay in posting. Been catching up at work after the vacation. We got STBX's answers to my request for admissions, and she denied the majority of our claims of her being at OM's residence on certain days. My lawyer says we can impeach her on these denials because it is lying under oath.
> 
> My lawyer also said this may open the window for me to go for more custody. She suggests I ask for 60/40 in my favor, and then it would swap to 40/60 for the summer. She said the judge actually prefers this method rather than 50/50, but it is usually the mother who gets the 60%. I am seriously considering going for it, but the risk is that it will piss off STBX and she will go for 60% or even full, and being that she is the mother she will more than likely get it. This judge has a reputation for being pro-mom in most situations. I am very stressed about how to handle this situation.
> 
> As far as the school district goes, we haven't heard much back on that angle. My dad spoke to a member of the administration and he asked a few questions about what was going on and then said the onus would be on STBX to file a harassment claim. I believe my dad is going to call back today to try to keep their feet to the fire. I'm sure the schoolboard will drag their feet hoping it will go away.


Hey along with your dad you hold their feet to the fire. They can beat the rap but can't beat the ride.
Buy some space in the local newspaper and out him there.
But stick to the truth.
That will make them act.


----------



## sandc

dadof2 said:


> I am still here, sorry for the delay in posting. Been catching up at work after the vacation. We got STBX's answers to my request for admissions, and she denied the majority of our claims of her being at OM's residence on certain days. My lawyer says we can impeach her on these denials because it is lying under oath.
> 
> My lawyer also said this may open the window for me to go for more custody. She suggests I ask for 60/40 in my favor, and then it would swap to 40/60 for the summer. She said the judge actually prefers this method rather than 50/50, but it is usually the mother who gets the 60%. I am seriously considering going for it, but the risk is that it will piss off STBX and she will go for 60% or even full, and being that she is the mother she will more than likely get it. This judge has a reputation for being pro-mom in most situations. I am very stressed about how to handle this situation.
> 
> As far as the school district goes, we haven't heard much back on that angle. My dad spoke to a member of the administration and he asked a few questions about what was going on and then said the onus would be on STBX to file a harassment claim. I believe my dad is going to call back today to try to keep their feet to the fire. I'm sure the schoolboard will drag their feet hoping it will go away.


I don't get the school board's reaction. Our comany's HR dept is scared sh!tless of stuff like this. Affairs by higher ups with lower downs are not tolerated where I work. They are so afraid of someone suing them for something. We've had a couple of managers have to leave the company over things like this.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



sandc said:


> I don't get the school board's reaction. Our comany's HR dept is scared sh!tless of stuff like this. Affairs by higher ups with lower downs are not tolerated where I work. They are so afraid of someone suing them for something. We've had a couple of managers have to leave the company over things like this.


Public officials are only concerned about public reactions. Unless the public at large is at risk of finding out about the situation they won't care. If dad exposes this publicly they would have to address it.


----------



## dubsey

have your dad toss out a "hey, it'd be a shame if the local paper found out that you (the board) weren't taking this seriously..."


----------



## Chaparral

If you have the money, ask your lawyer about an intentional infliction of emotional distress lawsuit against posom for your kids and you. It can be won given time but mKing him get an attorney would be great. You could then have all his records subpoenaed.

Why hasn't your attorney suppoenaed your wife's texts and emails?


----------



## honcho

It is not unusual for them to lie in the request for admissions or the answers are such watered down generalities they could be interpreted in so many different ways. None of that is surprising. 

I don’t think your custody idea is bad or really unfair and think her reaction will probably more on how its presented to her than anything. If she views it as an attack she will go for more. You know the judges views in general yet the judge making the decision is the last recourse to arriving at a decision.

The school board reaction isn’t shocking and we all know they will try to keep it all in house. They want the public to have a certain view and that is all they care about.


----------



## LongWalk

I can't remember if you shared the PI investigation with us, but I infer that your STBXW was filmed going in and out of POSOM's trailer and the PI tried to detect it shaking for awhile and then killed time by doing a Sudoku.

If you want to save your marriage, you need to kill the affair. Oh, I did I mention social media? Exposing OM on Cheaterville will stress the OM and reduce his powers of attraction. Perhaps, there is some small chance that a switch will flip and your wife will start to emerge from the state of loving OM. This possibility is something that you may wish to have on the record in your own mind. That you went the extra mile to see if there was some coal still glowing for you.

If you are resolved to divorce, then you can seek an amicable split with the 60/40 custody. You can tell your wife that you wish her to be happy and give her your blessing.


----------



## dadof2

I met with my lawyer this afternoon to go over a few items. The judge saw our reconventional demand which included a request to lift the RO. She did not lift the RO, so it will be contested at our hearing. I was pretty disappointed in that, but my lawyer said any allegation of abuse and they can hand out those RO's like candy.

She also ran some preliminary figures for me as far as child support and interim spousal support. They weren't as bad as I thought they would be honestly. My lawyer suggested we all sit down and discuss making choices in the best interest of the children, namely keeping them away from OM while she is "babysitting" for him over the summer. If we extend the olive branch and ask for this, and she continues to put kids near OM, then we can use that in court showing that she does not have best interest of kids in mind.

My lawyer did tell me today that she can put STBX on the stand and grill her for hours, but she said at the end of the day we are going to get shared custody and an even split of assets. Sadly there is just not a whole lot in the legal system that will give me any vindication. We are still keeping a close eye on the school board trying to at least put some heat in there professional lives. 

As far as cheaterville, etc goes, I am not inclined to do that right now. I think it makes me look petty. I am trying to stay above that nastiness because that is not the person I am. I am definitely not taking this lying down, but something about posting that kind of stuff all over the internet seems low brow to me. Besides, no one that I know has ever even heard of that website, so I don't think its that popular in my part of the country.


----------



## Nucking Futs

dadof2 said:


> I met with my lawyer this afternoon to go over a few items. The judge saw our reconventional demand which included a request to lift the RO. She did not lift the RO, so it will be contested at our hearing. I was pretty disappointed in that, but my lawyer said any allegation of abuse and they can hand out those RO's like candy.
> 
> She also ran some preliminary figures for me as far as child support and interim spousal support. They weren't as bad as I thought they would be honestly. My lawyer suggested we all sit down and discuss making choices in the best interest of the children, namely keeping them away from OM while she is "babysitting" for him over the summer. If we extend the olive branch and ask for this, and she continues to put kids near OM, then we can use that in court showing that she does not have best interest of kids in mind.
> 
> My lawyer did tell me today that she can put STBX on the stand and grill her for hours, but she said at the end of the day we are going to get shared custody and an even split of assets. Sadly there is just not a whole lot in the legal system that will give me any vindication. We are still keeping a close eye on the school board trying to at least put some heat in there professional lives.
> 
> As far as cheaterville, etc goes, I am not inclined to do that right now. I think it makes me look petty. I am trying to stay above that nastiness because that is not the person I am. I am definitely not taking this lying down, but something about posting that kind of stuff all over the internet seems low brow to me. Besides, no one that I know has ever even heard of that website, so I don't think its that popular in my part of the country.


Two things. First, cheaterville. Nobody looks at cheaterville, it's not popular anywhere. The benefit to it is that it gets picked up by google and anytime someone searches for that persons name the cheaterville link comes up in the search. And if you mention that he works at that school, the administration knows about what he did and have turned a blind eye to it, then that will start coming up when someone searches for the school name. And if it's true they can't do a thing to you about it.

As for putting your wife on the stand, I think you should let it slip to someone that will get it back to her that you're going to do it. She needs to get the idea that your lawyer is going to break her on the stand and use her testimony in the divorce case in your lawsuit against the school board. What lawsuit against the school board you ask? The one that you're going to start a rumor about, that's the one. The one that you have no intention of actually filing but will put pressure on the school board to do something about this situation rather than have that lawsuit show up in news papers. The one the school board members won't want to be answering questions about. And if you get to feeling really froggy and they don't do anything you can go ahead and file it. Sure a judge will probably throw it out, but the fact you filed it will be news and it will show back up in the news when the judge tosses it.


----------



## happyman64

Dadof2

Listen to your lawyer and don't run up her bill unless it will pay dividends.

Getting everyone to sit at the table and work out the D amicably is good.

And when negotiations start breaking down is when you pull out one of your PI pictures of when she was over at his house and lied about it.

That will make her think twice.

And if negotiations breakdown you remind her that your Dad is speaking with the schoolboard. The OM's job will be in jeapordy. Never imply her job is at risk.

That will make her think twice again.

And if she totally balks your lawyer tells her and her attorney that you will drag her out on the stand and grill her and you would hate to see it come to that.

Sadly, your divorce will play like a poker game.

Keep reminding your STBXW that it is now all about the kids.

Keep playing your hand. She has more to lose than you do.

HM


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> As far as cheaterville, etc goes, I am not inclined to do that right now. I think it makes me look petty. I am trying to stay above that nastiness because that is not the person I am. I am definitely not taking this lying down, but something about posting that kind of stuff all over the internet seems low brow to me. *Besides, no one that I know has ever even heard of that website, so I don't think its that popular in my part of the country.*


It's not that anyone knows about or uses Cheaterville, it's that *everyone knows about and uses Google*. With a solid CV profile in place, and plenty of hits (which the TAM army will be happy to provide), anytime anyone does a Google search for this guy, a link to the aforementioned CV profile will display prominently in the very first page of search results.


----------



## GusPolinski

tdwal said:


> So it sounds like you have resolved to divorce now. You probably ought to open a thread in the talk about divorce section, you will get better advice about that there.


I believe that he already has a thread there... it's just that this one has gotten much more attention from the TAM regulars. 

Pretty much par for the course w/ respect to CWI vs GTDoS.


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> It's not that anyone knows about or uses Cheaterville, it's that *everyone knows about and uses Google*. With a solid CV profile in place, and plenty of hits (which the TAM army will be happy to provide), anytime anyone does a Google search for this guy, a link to the aforementioned CV profile will display prominently in the very first page of search results.


:iagree::iagree:

It has worked before.
Oh and if some panzy can sue espn for 10 million you can sue the om, the school ect. for whatever amount.
Could it get thrown out sure...
But it will be PUBLIC RECORD.


----------



## Just Joe

dadof2 said:


> I met with my lawyer this afternoon to go over a few items. The judge saw our reconventional demand which included a request to lift the RO. She did not lift the RO, so it will be contested at our hearing. I was pretty disappointed in that, but my lawyer said any allegation of abuse and they can hand out those RO's like candy.
> 
> My lawyer suggested we all sit down and discuss making choices in the best interest of the children, namely keeping them away from OM while she is "babysitting" for him over the summer. If we extend the olive branch and ask for this, and she continues to put kids near OM, then we can use that in court showing that she does not have best interest of kids in mind.
> 
> My lawyer did tell me today that she can put STBX on the stand and grill her for hours, but she said at the end of the day we are going to get shared custody and an even split of assets. Sadly there is just not a whole lot in the legal system that will give me any vindication.


I know a lot of people who have been divorced, but I don't have a lot of in depth experience with how it really works. What I do know from people I know well enough to believe is that it really is an unjust system.

For example, you posted earlier that your wife lied in her answers to your pleading, and that she signed it under penalty of perjury. However, apparently no judge really cares if people perjure themselves? And if so, then why should anyone ever answer honestly in any of these divorce proceedings if there is no penalty for lying?

I know a couple who got divorced. While they were married, the guy bought 4 apartment buildings without his wife knowing it. Had an ex-girlfriend sign as his wife on the documents. After they got married, they bought a $500,000 house, then fixed it up, put on additions, etc., and turned it into a million-dollar house. She had a kid and stopped working, stayed home, the kid was really sick. They were married about 10 years, he was cheating on her pretty much the whole time. She knew but didn't want to leave until her daughter got better. He owns a construction company.

During the divorce process, he fills out the financial statement and so does she. She never was involved in the finances, he handles all of it, so her lawyer tells her to hire a forensic PI and a forensic accountant. They uncover the 4 apartment buildings, a bunch of hidden investment accounts, and I kid you not, even an empty pickle jar stuffed full of $100s buried in their backyard. Meanwhile he fills out the financial info, puts down that he makes $25,000 a year and essentially has no assets other than the house they live in. The judge takes one look at her financial statement, the one with all of the buildings and accounts found by the PI, and tells the guy he better go home and re-do his financial statement, there's no way he has this much stuff and only makes $25K. The judge was very harsh and threatening, but in the end, the only penalty was to listen to the judge berate him and to go back and re-fill out the forms the way they should be filled out in the first place. So that was the penalty for him lying. Go back and next time be honest. So what is the penalty for lying on these documents? Why does anyone bother being truthful on them?

What is the penalty for your wife lying on her response "under penalty of perjury?"

The other thing I don't understand, have never dealt with it or talked to someone who has, is the restraining order. All she has to do is tell the police she is afraid of you? Feels threatened by you? Because you pounded your fist on the table when you found out she cheated, or something like that? What is to stop you then from making a similar claim against her?


----------



## dadof2

Just Joe said:


> I know a lot of people who have been divorced, but I don't have a lot of in depth experience with how it really works. What I do know from people I know well enough to believe is that it really is an unjust system.
> 
> For example, you posted earlier that your wife lied in her answers to your pleading, and that she signed it under penalty of perjury. However, apparently no judge really cares if people perjure themselves? And if so, then why should anyone ever answer honestly in any of these divorce proceedings if there is no penalty for lying?
> 
> I know a couple who got divorced. While they were married, the guy bought 4 apartment buildings without his wife knowing it. Had an ex-girlfriend sign as his wife on the documents. After they got married, they bought a $500,000 house, then fixed it up, put on additions, etc., and turned it into a million-dollar house. She had a kid and stopped working, stayed home, the kid was really sick. They were married about 10 years, he was cheating on her pretty much the whole time. She knew but didn't want to leave until her daughter got better. He owns a construction company.
> 
> During the divorce process, he fills out the financial statement and so does she. She never was involved in the finances, he handles all of it, so her lawyer tells her to hire a forensic PI and a forensic accountant. They uncover the 4 apartment buildings, a bunch of hidden investment accounts, and I kid you not, even an empty pickle jar stuffed full of $100s buried in their backyard. Meanwhile he fills out the financial info, puts down that he makes $25,000 a year and essentially has no assets other than the house they live in. The judge takes one look at her financial statement, the one with all of the buildings and accounts found by the PI, and tells the guy he better go home and re-do his financial statement, there's no way he has this much stuff and only makes $25K. The judge was very harsh and threatening, but in the end, the only penalty was to listen to the judge berate him and to go back and re-fill out the forms the way they should be filled out in the first place. So that was the penalty for him lying. Go back and next time be honest. So what is the penalty for lying on these documents? Why does anyone bother being truthful on them?
> 
> *What is the penalty for your wife lying on her response "under penalty of perjury?"
> 
> The other thing I don't understand, have never dealt with it or talked to someone who has, is the restraining order. All she has to do is tell the police she is afraid of you? Feels threatened by you? Because you pounded your fist on the table when you found out she cheated, or something like that? What is to stop you then from making a similar claim against her?*


I am fairly new to this as well, and I asked my lawyer today abot her lying on her responses. She said we can call the PI as an expert witness to refute her denial. She will them be impeached for lying under oath. I don't know what the penalty for that is, but my lawyer said it sets a good precedent that STBX is a liar.

As far as the restraining order goes, it looks like there is not much evidence needed to have one. I feel just like you do, because I yelled at her when I found out she cheated, apparently she is afraid of me and can get the RO. I am finding out that it is a lot harder to have it removed.


----------



## turnera

GusPolinski said:


> It's not that anyone knows about or uses Cheaterville, it's that *everyone knows about and uses Google*. With a solid CV profile in place, and plenty of hits (which the TAM army will be happy to provide), anytime anyone does a Google search for this guy, a link to the aforementioned CV profile will display prominently in the very first page of search results.


I've seen it drag down SEVERAL affairs now.


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## Just Joe

dadof2 said:


> I am fairly new to this as well, and I asked my lawyer today abot her lying on her responses. She said we can call the PI as an expert witness to refute her denial. She will them be impeached for lying under oath. I don't know what the penalty for that is, but my lawyer said it sets a good precedent that STBX is a liar.
> 
> As far as the restraining order goes, it looks like there is not much evidence needed to have one. I feel just like you do, because I yelled at her when I found out she cheated, apparently she is afraid of me and can get the RO. I am finding out that it is a lot harder to have it removed.


dad, I just googled it and came across this article written by a lawyer who says at one point "there's no doubting my feminist camp allegiance." Even she says how unfair this whole restraining order thing is:

Liz Mandarano: The Worst Thing A Woman Can Do In Divorce Proceedings - The Abuse Of Orders of Protection

Also, read the comments posted underneath the article for some real horror stories.

What about you filing a counter-claim restraining order against her? Or is this just something that women can do, or whoever does it first, the other one can't do it? If it's the latter, then it would seem like the spouse who truly is abusive could pre-emptively file one against their already victimized spouse, which would really be a miscarriage of justice.


----------



## BWBill

_I am fairly new to this as well, and I asked my lawyer today abot her lying on her responses. She said we can call the PI as an expert witness to refute her denial. She will them be impeached for lying under oath. I don't know what the penalty for that is, but my lawyer said it sets a good precedent that STBX is a liar._

Hurting her credibility may help when challenging the need for a restraining order.


----------



## LongWalk

Family court is a crap shoot. There are judges who favor mothers and others who crack down on liars. A police report of spousal abuse, DUI record, dishonorable discharge, etc. These are strikes against a parent in a custody battle. An extra-marital affair with a colleague? Must be very common. Doubtful that most judges care much about adultery.

The school board? Maybe, maybe not. 

Cheaterville spreads among colleagues, friends and relatives. Is it low brow, undignified? Absolutely, but here's the rub. The cheater is the one who looks like a jerk. The poster, whom most infer to be the betrayed spouse is not there, except by implication.

You cannot be sued for slander/libel if you write the truth. The truth, without any angry, bitter words stings worse than you imagine. All colleagues in the work out group will be in on the joke. They may have detected the flirting. So much for the exercise group this autumn. Of course, if the divorce is quite and normal, then OM can get away with it.

Remember that high school students will pick up on this and the principal will be a laughing stock.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Family court is a crap shoot. There are judges who favor mothers and others who crack down on liars. A police report of spousal abuse, DUI record, dishonorable discharge, etc. These are strikes against a parent in a custody battle. An extra-marital affair with a colleague? Must be very common. Doubtful that most judges care much about adultery.
> 
> The school board? Maybe, maybe not.
> 
> Cheaterville spreads among colleagues, friends and relatives. Is it low brow, undignified? Absolutely, but here's the rub. The cheater is the one who looks like a jerk. The poster, whom most infer to be the betrayed spouse is not there, except by implication.
> 
> You cannot be sued for slander/libel if you write the truth. The truth, without any angry, bitter words stings worse than you imagine. All colleagues in the work out group will be in on the joke. They may have detected the flirting. So much for the exercise group this autumn. Of course, if the divorce is quite and normal, then OM can get away with it.
> 
> Remember that high school students will pick up on this and the principal will be a laughing stock.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## turnera

the MAIN goal of CV is to get the OM/OW to find the heat too hot and dump your spouse. Period.


----------



## honcho

The problem with divorce court is there is no real defined penalty for hiding assets, lying etc. Judges are great for threatening and do enjoy the power trip but they don’t have much teeth in divorce court. The penalty is more like a parent scolding a child for not cleaning their room. 

The biggest benefit of showing the court they are lying or hiding items is the judge usually views them as untrustworthy and isn’t as generous when it comes to alimony, things like that. 

As someone stated earlier this now is all a game of poker, the last resort is a judge ruling and the lawyers know this so they play games trying to call each others bluff. If you depend on the judge to rule, you will probably be disappointed.


----------



## davecarter

dadof2 said:


> As far as cheaterville, etc goes, I am not inclined to do that right now. I think it makes me look petty. I am trying to stay above that nastiness because that is not the person I am. I am definitely not taking this lying down, but something about posting that kind of stuff all over the internet seems low brow to me. Besides, no one that I know has ever even heard of that website, so I don't think its that popular in my part of the country.


Again, hardly anyone knows about it except TAM'ers. 

And they swear by it!


----------



## GusPolinski

davecarter said:


> Again, hardly anyone knows about it except TAM'ers.
> 
> And they swear by it!


Well, again...



GusPolinski said:


> It's not that anyone knows about or uses Cheaterville, it's that *everyone knows about and uses Google*. With a solid CV profile in place, and plenty of hits (which the TAM army will be happy to provide), anytime anyone does a Google search for this guy, a link to the aforementioned CV profile will display prominently in the very first page of search results.


Pretty hard to refute.


----------



## 3putt

davecarter said:


> Again, hardly anyone knows about it except TAM'ers.
> 
> And they swear by it!


Nobody knows a new storefront business opening either, until you *advertise* it. 

You don't just post on CV, then wait for results. You spread the word yourself initially to the major targets, then word of mouth will run with it from there.....and it always does. Everyone loves to spread the news of a scandal.

I don't see what's so difficult about this to understand.


----------



## Chaparral

Make the cheaterville post in the third person as if it is someone besides you. At this point you want to stop the affair. Why? Your kids. You should do everything in your power to keep this scum with no morals away from your children. If you do not, you are not a good father. And that ain't highbrow,that's lowbrow and even lower class.

To be honest, you mostly sound like their lying and cheating have whipped you and you are feeling defeated.

You will actually be shocked when you post him on c-ville, send him and the school board, a few other interested parties, an email via their annonymous email service and then watch all the rats scramble and tossing blame at each other.

You might even ask the pi to consider doing it so you could have plausible deniability. I would do it myself however, and personally call the ba$tard to give him a headsup.

I would also file a lawsuit against him but then I refuse to be tread upon.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Nucking Futs said:


> Two things. First, cheaterville. Nobody looks at cheaterville, it's not popular anywhere. The benefit to it is that it gets picked up by google and anytime someone searches for that persons name the cheaterville link comes up in the search. And if you mention that he works at that school, the administration knows about what he did and have turned a blind eye to it, then that will start coming up when someone searches for the school name. And if it's true they can't do a thing to you about it.
> 
> As for putting your wife on the stand, I think you should *let it slip to someone that will get it back to her that you're going to do it. * She needs to get the idea that your lawyer is going to break her on the stand and use her testimony in the divorce case in your lawsuit against the school board. What *lawsuit against the school board *you ask? The one that you're going to start a rumor about, that's the one. The one that you have no intention of actually filing but will put pressure on the school board to do something about this situation rather than have that lawsuit show up in news papers. The one the school board members won't want to be answering questions about. And if you get to feeling really froggy and they don't do anything you can go ahead and file it. Sure a judge will probably throw it out, but the fact you filed it will be news and it will show back up in the news when the judge tosses it.


Dadof2, this is the best advice you can get. The fact is that the legal system is not going to a damn thing about her adultery. All that you can hope for is this:


Protect your kids from the OM (because he really is toxic to them).

Blow up his chances of career progression by exposing and definitely make use of CV. I am in the UK where CV type of stuff didn't really matter, but even I have seen it work very effectively first hand through Google searches. It is not low brow when you are protecting your family and ridding society of [email protected] Just make sure you PM some of us the link so that we drive the number of hits up for you - this, as I said, has worked very well in the past (and PM so that a search does not link back to this thread).

Protect your assets and custody.
This will be enough to start getting vindication too. Especially when people know what happened. I think the idea of spreading the two main rumours referred to above is brilliant - the school will be forced to really start to worry about this and may not renew is tenure or whatever.

Take care.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



davecarter said:


> Again, hardly anyone knows about it except TAM'ers.
> 
> And they swear by it!


So if you're correct then putting them up on Cheaterville will do no harm because nobody will see it. However, if we're correct then a well worded Cheaterville post could break up their affair and/or help get favorable divorce terms. So what has he got to lose?


----------



## LongWalk

3putt said:


> Nobody knows a new storefront business opening either, until you *advertise* it.
> 
> You don't just post on CV, then wait for results. You spread the word yourself initially to the major targets, then word of mouth will run with it from there.....and it always does. Everyone loves to spread the news of a scandal.
> 
> I don't see what's so difficult about this to understand.


:iagree:

The reason BS hesitate to take the CV step is that they fear burning bridges. The feel that CV is an escalation of a conflict. Actually the conflict has its origins elsewhere.

To be more explicit, your WW flirted with Asst Principal in front of all the other people in the work out group. He look for an excuse to brush against her in an innocuous fashion. She did not pull back from this contact. They were the last to leave the workout one afternoon.

How long did he kiss her before slipping his fingers down her yoga pants? She hasn't told you the details but there are only so many ways this could have gone down.

_*CV only needs to note that Asst Principal, a divorced single dad, hired his subordinate colleague, a married woman with children, to be his overnight babysitter. At about the time she struck this new arrangement, she separated from her husband. Her marriage now appears over.*_

Once you anonymously spread this locally. It will grow like mold in leaky basement. The relationship of your WW and her vice boss maybe be moldy. Could also be true love. Time will tell.


----------



## Chuck71

Chaparral said:


> Make the cheaterville post in the third person as if it is someone besides you. .


I am forced to write in 3rd person, thanks to academia

I'd be more than happy to "edit"

I have to give you guys credit, I was a big skeptic of CV

but the underlying reasons are...... spectacular!

it's not the butterfly who grabs the gold

it's the larva that gets you through the group stage

only World Cup fans can relate


----------



## movin on

As far as cheaterville, etc goes, I am not inclined to do that right now. I think it makes me look petty. I am trying to stay above that nastiness because that is not the person I am. I am definitely not taking this lying down, but something about posting that kind of stuff all over the internet seems low brow to me. Besides, no one that I know has ever even heard of that website, so I don't think its that popular in my part of the country.

I guess that makes me low brow. And petty
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Racer

LongWalk said:


> The reason BS hesitate to take the CV step is that they fear burning bridges. The feel that CV is an escalation of a conflict. Actually the conflict has its origins elsewhere.


That's not true... I did the CV selectively. A lot it had to do with whether I saw them as the predator or the prey and whether or not there was someone else in the picture and 'how bad' (using my own judgment).

So, my wife's EA partners didn't get a posting. I'm not going to rip apart a guy's life for what he might have considered flirting. Most of those started as jokes within a group that got raunchier before my wife started sending personal messages and moving it to a 'one on one' level. She was the aggressor pushing their boundaries. 

Her LTPA, he was single, already divorced for cheating on his wife and definitely comes across as a player. I'd think he'd rather enjoy the notoriety... She was just a 'notch' on his belt (I used that to wreck her since she thought she was special and he was in-love). I was hardly going to give him something more to brag about. 

I did post the married guy, white collar, who initiated taking my wife's friendship with him further. She didn't pursue him, he pursued her. So I burned him. I would have burned her last one who was trying to resurrect their old relationship. But I felt bad for him... BH who's wife divorced and married the AP. He was hurting and reaching out... and killed himself. No reason to tarnish the memories of his family of him.

So post or don't. It's a personal decision.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Cheaterville is a tool. When we advise you post on cheaterville it's usually intended to put pressure on the AP to end the affair. If you have no desire to get your wife to return to your marriage, no chance of reconciliation, you don't need it. However, if you do want reconciliation but you refuse to use cheaterville it's like driving a nail by hitting it with a pair of pliers rather than the hammer that's right there in the tool box. Sure you might eventually drive the nail all the way in with the pliers but you have a much better chance of success and a much easier job of it if you use the right tool for the job.

The secondary purpose of posting to cheaterville is to punish the AP. There's not much you can legally do to an AP, this is about it. If you're the type of guy that's going to say "Hell no, you're not going to break up my marriage without paying a price" cheaterville is your friend. If you're not the kind of guy to make someone pay for assaulting your marriage then there's nothing I can say to you about it that won't get me banned.


----------



## Chaparral

In this case, done right, cheaterville is likely to drive the om to a school district far away from your family.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Do you want to know what my smoking gun was....

My "tool" with which to keep the other woman at bay was calling her at work and letting her know I had evidence that she not only had messed around with my husband but that at the same time she slept with her husbands brother (only married a year by the way) and that I had cast a wide net out on facebook friending her entire family. That at any moment I could take her down, but am temporarily choosing not to because there are so many children involved. So, therefore... the best course of action is for all of us to walk away from this and never look back. She vowed on the spot to never utter a word to my husband and to this day no evidence has surfaced to the contrary....

** blows the smoke off the tip of her pistol and slides it back in its holster, thought you might see it my way...

He had already cut off ties before this, but she contacted him and wanted to know what I knew... She asked... I answered 

My husband was very wise to toss me that ball.


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2 spent money on a PI. This is rare. Indicates some determination. However, his lawyer is steering the ship now. There will be no lawsuit. The only one who claim sexual harassment is WW, but she doesn't mind OM's attentions. Maybe she's afraid of losing her babysitter job?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Dof2 spent money on a PI. This is rare. Indicates some determination. However, his lawyer is steering the ship now. There will be no lawsuit. The only one who claim sexual harassment is WW, but she doesn't mind OM's attentions. Maybe she's afraid of losing her babysitter job?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_



He should do what Nucking said and grease the wheel so to speak.


----------



## warlock07

Blossom Leigh said:


> Do you want to know what my smoking gun was....
> 
> My "tool" with which to keep the other woman at bay was calling her at work and letting her know I had evidence that she not only had messed around with my husband but that at the same time she slept with her husbands brother (only married a year by the way) and that I had cast a wide net out on facebook friending her entire family. That at any moment I could take her down, but am temporarily choosing not to because there are so many children involved. So, therefore... the best course of action is for all of us to walk away from this and never look back. She vowed on the spot to never utter a word to my husband and to this day no evidence has surfaced to the contrary....
> 
> ** blows the smoke off the tip of her pistol and slides it back in its holster, thought you might see it my way...
> 
> He had already cut off ties before this, but she contacted him and wanted to know what I knew... She asked... I answered
> 
> My husband was very wise to toss me that ball.


If all that was true, you probably should have exposed..


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2,

I am rooting for you. It is my sincere belief that you will raise your sex rank 73 to 85 notches when you post on Cheaterville. Your wife will be calling you to beg you to take it down. OM's status will plummet. You need to handle your WW's plea with sangfroid 

(aplomb, calmness, collectedness, composedness, composure, cool, coolness, countenance, equilibrium, imperturbability, placidity, repose, equanimity, self-composedness, self-possession, serenity, tranquillity (or tranquility), tranquilness).

You may not reconcile. But at the very least you will regain your footing while OM struggles to gain his feet. One of the worst scenario is that they start the school year and their colleagues accept their relationship and congratulate them on finding each other.

Do not let this happen.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Dof2,
> 
> I am rooting for you. It is my sincere belief that you will raise your sex rank 73 to 85 notches when you post on Cheaterville. Your wife will be calling you to beg you to take it down. OM's status will plummet. You need to handle your WW's plea with sangfroid
> 
> (aplomb, calmness, collectedness, composedness, composure, cool, coolness, countenance, equilibrium, imperturbability, placidity, repose, equanimity, self-composedness, self-possession, serenity, tranquillity (or tranquility), tranquilness).
> 
> You may not reconcile. But at the very least you will regain your footing while OM struggles to gain his feet. One of the worst scenario is that they start the school year and their colleagues accept their relationship and congratulate them on finding each other.
> 
> Do not let this happen.


This^^^ dadof2
:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
Time to stop walking on eggshells.


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> Dof2,
> 
> I am rooting for you. It is my sincere belief that you will raise your sex rank 73 to 85 notches when you post on Cheaterville. Your wife will be calling you to beg you to take it down. OM's status will plummet. You need to handle your WW's plea with sangfroid
> 
> (aplomb, calmness, collectedness, composedness, composure, cool, coolness, countenance, equilibrium, imperturbability, placidity, repose, equanimity, self-composedness, self-possession, serenity, tranquillity (or tranquility), tranquilness).
> 
> You may not reconcile. But at the very least you will regain your footing while OM struggles to gain his feet. *One of the worst scenario is that they start the school year and their colleagues accept their relationship and congratulate them on finding each other.*
> 
> Do not let this happen.


I agree with that being the worst case scenario. I have taken steps to get the word out among the school community so they will not be as cheerful when the school year starts.

As far as your assessment about what will happen when I post on CV, I know my wife's reaction will not be what you say it will be. That would be a normal reaction, but she has shown over the last few months how she handles things and her calling me begging me to take it down will not happen. I know the mob is thirsty for blood with CV, but I am taking other steps to expose to the school community. I appreciate the encouragement, everyone here has been a great help, but in my situation and knowing what I have been dealing with, I think CV would be a step backwards for me at this point.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> I agree with that being the worst case scenario. I have taken steps to get the word out among the school community so they will not be as cheerful when the school year starts.
> 
> As far as your assessment about what will happen when I post on CV, I know my wife's reaction will not be what you say it will be. That would be a normal reaction, but she has shown over the last few months how she handles things and her calling me begging me to take it down will not happen. I know the mob is thirsty for blood with CV, but I am taking other steps to expose to the school community. I appreciate the encouragement, everyone here has been a great help, but in my situation and knowing what I have been dealing with, I think CV would be a step backwards for me at this point.


Okay if you are getting the word out.
More importantly Lebron is going back to Cleveland.:rofl:
that's all I've been hearing but I digress.
Have a nice weekend dad.


----------



## dadof2

We are having a meeting a week from this coming Monday with me and my attorney & her & her attorney. I asked for the meeting not to be a mediation meeting, but rather to tell her that I don't believe its in the best interest of the children to be around OM so much. Where the meeting goes from there I don't know, but I told my attorney that I fully intend for her to put STBX on the stand at the hearing and make her answer as to why she lied on her responses. She can be impeached for lying under oath and this will hurt her credibility moving forward.

I also want to play some emotional mindgames with STBX during this meeting. A few weeks ago she called asking if I would consider going back to MC, and I told her no. I want to say that I am willing to go, and see what her reaction is. I believe her reaction will be to say no as well, but then she will go home and think about it and wish she had the opportunity to reconsider. I know in my heart that is what she will do. I don't really want to go to MC, but I think sending it up the flagpole to gauge her response may tell me a lot about where she is at mentally. I am also considering telling her that I would agree to go to MC, but I can't because of the RO, and see her reaction to that.

I want to start manipulating her mind a little bit like she has been doing to me. I texted her this morning about taking the children with me for a week's vacation and she said okay. I remember how I felt when she took the kids for a week, so maybe she will have a little bit of those pangs as well. Who the hell knows?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

warlock07 said:


> If all that was true, you probably should have exposed..


I seriously considered it but ultimately didnt to protect my H's job. The emotional hit was so severe I didn't want to absorb a financial hit too.


----------



## ariel_angel77

dadof2 said:


> I also want to play some emotional mindgames with STBX during this meeting. A few weeks ago she called asking if I would consider going back to MC, and I told her no. I want to say that I am willing to go, and see what her reaction is. I believe her reaction will be to say no as well, but then she will go home and think about it and wish she had the opportunity to reconsider. I know in my heart that is what she will do. I don't really want to go to MC, but I think sending it up the flagpole to gauge her response may tell me a lot about where she is at mentally. I am also considering telling her that I would agree to go to MC, but I can't because of the RO, and see her reaction to that.
> 
> I want to start manipulating her mind a little bit like she has been doing to me. I texted her this morning about taking the children with me for a week's vacation and she said okay. I remember how I felt when she took the kids for a week, so maybe she will have a little bit of those pangs as well. Who the hell knows?


It sounds like you're just trying to hurt her now...is that really how you want to be? How will your kids feel knowing their parents are just trying to hurt each other? I mean, imagine your STBX saying to kids "Guess what? Daddy and I are going to marriage counseling! We might work this out." Then come to find out you were just trying to hurt her and it CRUSHES the kids more than anyone, especially your STBX who you were trying to hurt in the first place. I would be focused on THEM, not trying to hurt your STBX. The only way you should be trying to hurt her, is her chances of winning much in the case. Other than that, you should be focused on your kids and your own healing & moving on. Things like this are just hurting your healing process.


----------



## dadof2

ariel_angel77 said:


> It sounds like you're just trying to hurt her now...is that really how you want to be? How will your kids feel knowing their parents are just trying to hurt each other? I mean, imagine your STBX saying to kids "Guess what? Daddy and I are going to marriage counseling! We might work this out." Then come to find out you were just trying to hurt her and it CRUSHES the kids more than anyone, especially your STBX who you were trying to hurt in the first place. I would be focused on THEM, not trying to hurt your STBX. The only way you should be trying to hurt her, is her chances of winning much in the case. Other than that, you should be focused on your kids and your own healing & moving on. Things like this are just hurting your healing process.


I appreciate your input, but she will not tell our kids anything of the sort, they are too young to understand "working it out."

I get what you are saying about hurting STBX, but you know what, she has put me through hell and back and I have had to stand here and take it for months. Its time she get a little taste of how it feels as well. My healing process is moving along, I have good days and bad days, but I don't see how a little manipulation is a bad thing. Fight fire with fire I say. At the end of the day we are going to get an even split of everything, so whenever I can get a few jabs in I plan on taking them from here on out.

I have considered reaching out to her about an attempt at R, but she has a long way to go before she shows herself worthy of it.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> I appreciate your input, but she will not tell our kids anything of the sort, they are too young to understand "working it out."
> 
> I get what you are saying about hurting STBX, but you know what, she has put me through hell and back and I have had to stand here and take it for months. Its time she get a little taste of how it feels as well. My healing process is moving along, I have good days and bad days, but I don't see how a little manipulation is a bad thing. Fight fire with fire I say. At the end of the day we are going to get an even split of everything, so whenever I can get a few jabs in I plan on taking them from here on out.
> 
> I have considered reaching out to her about an attempt at R, but she has a long way to go before she shows herself worthy of it.


With all of her lies there will be consequences for her actions.
the truth always has a way of coming out.


----------



## warlock07

I think the direction you are taking now will hurt you and your kids further. And making the healing process longer.

You are also not in a position to probably manipulate her. It will only be humiliating yourself further.

Are you rich enough to afford the expensive divorce ? You've already spent a lot.

leave the manipulation to the manipulators.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

in my case vindictive didn't feel good to me

protect my relationship, yes, but vindictive, no


----------



## Nucking Futs

warlock07 said:


> I think the direction you are taking now will hurt you and your kids further. And making the healing process longer.
> 
> You are also not in a position to probably manipulate her. It will only be humiliating yourself further.
> 
> Are you rich enough to afford the expensive divorce ? You've already spent a lot.
> 
> leave the manipulation to the manipulators.


I agree with this but I also think you should consider the message you're sending while attempting to manipulate her. You know she doesn't want to R, she just wants to string this out and wear you down until you go away quietly. By suggesting R or reaching out to her, whether you mean it or are just trying to manipulate her, you're sending her a message that you're weakening and she's on the right track.

However you may be feeling, don't appear weak.


----------



## Graywolf2

dadof2 said:


> #1. We are having a meeting a week from this coming Monday with me and my attorney & her & her attorney.
> 
> #2. I told my attorney that I fully intend for her to put STBX on the stand at the hearing and make her answer as to why she lied on her responses. She can be impeached for lying under oath and this will hurt her credibility moving forward.


During #1 don't give her a heads up about #2.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I dont necessarily agree with the others - I think a few mind games are well in order here. She has tortured you without any remorse. This is not just revenge - this is gaining the upper hand in this divorce process. Let her be on the defensive all the time not knowing what you are going to do next until custody etc has been determined.

I am with you on this DDO2.


----------



## Nucking Futs

manfromlamancha said:


> I dont necessarily agree with the others - I think a few mind games are well in order here. She has tortured you without any remorse. This is not just revenge - this is gaining the upper hand in this divorce process. Let her be on the defensive all the time not knowing what you are going to do next until custody etc has been determined.
> 
> I am with you on this DDO2.


If you have to do it don't do it in a way that makes you look weak.


----------



## turnera

dad, my impression is that you're a Nice Guy and it's guided about everything that's happened in your life. Which has turned out disasterously. I think it's time to start acting more like the guy you'd want to be if you weren't afraid.


----------



## LongWalk

Nucking Futs is right on. Do not show weakness.

I think you are throwing a pitch that is two things at once. You want to hurt her, shake her up a bit while at the same time keeping the idea of reconciliation alive. Many women have higher emotional IQ's than men. If your WW is good at reading you, she may perceive this as one more card in a hand of poker that has not gone your way. She is playing to win at your expense.

The only way this game changes in your favor is that she folds the OM hand and pools her chips with yours.

The 64 dollar question is, in her heart does she still love you at some level? And if she does, can you get OM to quit? 

If you are exposing to people whom OM and WW hold in regard, you may be succeeding. You need to make this very unpleasant for them. If the stress they feel is just a hammer on red hot iron, you are just strengthening their bond.

The way OM and WW have mingled the kids together was very rash. If they bluff their way through this stage, your chance of busting the affair will diminish.


----------



## Chaparral

turnera said:


> dad, my impression is that you're a Nice Guy and it's guided about everything that's happened in your life. Which has turned out disasterously. I think it's time to start acting more like the guy you'd want to be if you weren't afraid.


His fear is going to undo him. It amazes me that you can read the threads here and see what works. The men and women that take the bull by the horns and ring its neck win. The folks that analyze, prevaricate, study, plot, put off exposing and finally end up in analysis paralysis lose every time.

If he had gone full bore in the beginning, taken advice, left the lawyer out of it, posted on cheaterville, made the om look like the village idiot, he could have won.

Instead he's letting other people take care of things and made the other man her hero. You could see it coming.


----------



## Machiavelli

Chaparral said:


> If he had gone full bore in the beginning, taken advice, left the lawyer out of it, posted on cheaterville, made the om look like the village idiot, he could have won..


That's always the best shot, but I think he's coming to understand that his wife was no prize worth winning, after all.


----------



## helolover

Machiavelli said:


> .... but I think he's coming to understand that his wife was no prize worth winning, after all.


Exactly. 

And his victory will be sealed when SHE realizes that too.


----------



## tom67

helolover said:


> Exactly.
> 
> And his victory will be sealed when SHE realizes that too.


Playing nice or scared never wins.


----------



## Chuck71

but it's nice to "act" nice and scared

until they walk right into your trap


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> but it's nice to "act" nice and scared
> 
> until they walk right into your trap


Well played Chuck.


----------



## harrybrown

How did your meeting go, any remorse on her part?


----------



## ken7572

I'm so sorry my heart breaks for you and rings familiar. Everybody told me to be strong but easier said than done!

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> I want to start manipulating her mind a little bit like she has been doing to me. I texted her this morning about taking the children with me for a week's vacation and she said okay. *I remember how I felt when she took the kids for a week, so maybe she will have a little bit of those pangs as well.* Who the hell knows?


Perhaps. But hey, at least she'll have her future former step-children to keep her company!


----------



## GusPolinski

harrybrown said:


> How did your meeting go, any remorse on her part?


If I read OP's last update correctly, the meeting is scheduled for a week from today.


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> If I read OP's last update correctly, the meeting is scheduled for a week from today.


Oh okay split hairs
dadof2 I hope you have read wranglerman's thread.
Yes we are pushing you to an extant.
We have seen what works and what doesn't.


----------



## dadof2

Our meeting is next Monday, the 21st. I am seriously considering calling my attorney and cancelling it. It was my idea to meet to talk about arrangements with the children and try to get STBX to talk a little bit. But at this point I am feeling more and more that I do not want to see her or even talk to her anymore. I know it is a rollercoaster, but I just don't see any positives coming out of it. So far in this process, anything I have said does not have the effect that I expected. I think this meeting will only make me look weak no matter how we frame it, and it will look like I am trying to make a deal. I don't want a deal, I want her to be put on the stand and answer to why she perjured herself. This hit to her credibility will hopefully lay the groundwork for any future incidents regarding custody.


----------



## manfromlamancha

So then drop the meeting if it will not serve any useful purpose. So far, your gut instincts on what to do have been spot on. Use the time to prepare to grill her on the stand. Also start preparing for the aftermath and backlash. POSOM and your WW will not go down without a fight.


----------



## bandit.45

I agree. Let your lawyer handle her. Let your lawyer get her on the stand and take her apart in front of everyone. 

I still think you need to attend the next school board meeting and muddy up the OM's waters a little. You are being way to passive on that. Screw what your lawyer thinks about going after him. 

I think you should hurt his world so he will get mad enough to purger himself should your lawyer call him up to testify a the hearing.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

So, is she still openly seeing POSOM?
Given she was attempting to reach out for reconciliation while she was babysitting POSOM's kids, is there any benefit to calling her out on such a blatant lie?


----------



## manfromlamancha

Agree with bandit. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to not destroy this pile of sh!t's world and employment right now!

I would do it without reservation!


----------



## PBear

manfromlamancha said:


> Agree with bandit. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to not destroy this pile of sh!t's world and employment right now!
> 
> I would do it without reservation!


His restraining order and plans to have it removed are a good reason to not start mud-slinging now...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

dadof2 said:


> We are having a meeting a week from this coming Monday with me and my attorney & her & her attorney. I asked for the meeting not to be a mediation meeting, but rather to tell her that I don't believe its in the best interest of the children to be around OM so much. Where the meeting goes from there I don't know, but I told my attorney that I fully intend for her to put STBX on the stand at the hearing and make her answer as to why she lied on her responses. She can be impeached for lying under oath and this will hurt her credibility moving forward.
> 
> I also want to play some emotional mindgames with STBX during this meeting. A few weeks ago she called asking if I would consider going back to MC, and I told her no. I want to say that I am willing to go, and see what her reaction is. I believe her reaction will be to say no as well, but then she will go home and think about it and wish she had the opportunity to reconsider. I know in my heart that is what she will do. I don't really want to go to MC, but I think sending it up the flagpole to gauge her response may tell me a lot about where she is at mentally. I am also considering telling her that I would agree to go to MC, but I can't because of the RO, and see her reaction to that.
> 
> I want to start manipulating her mind a little bit like she has been doing to me. I *texted her this morning about taking the children with me for a week's vacation and she said okay. I remember how I felt when she took the kids for a week, so maybe she will have a little bit of those pangs as well.* Who the hell knows?


She'll definitely miss your kids man but I am willing to bet she'll use the time to spend with OM interruption free. WW's that continue to see the POSOM are ruthless snakes that don't feel normal motherly human emotion, in my opinion.


----------



## bandit.45

PBear said:


> His restraining order and plans to have it removed are a good reason to not start mud-slinging now...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The restraining order carries no weight in a public gathering where OP would be standing in front of school board members calling them to task on a legit complaint. The OM is not covered under the RO, unless I didn't read correctly.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I think PBear means the judge may not lift the restraining order if he feels that Ddadof2 is acting crazy. However, I agree with Bandit in that this is not acting crazy - this is legitimately asking the school board how they can tolerate and maybe even encourage such behaviour with a shot across the bow about perhaps some alienation of affection being enabled here.

Perfectly legal, not crazy at all (quite the opposite).

So I still say, rain hell on him!


----------



## dadof2

manfromlamancha said:


> I think PBear means the judge may not lift the restraining order if he feels that Ddadof2 is acting crazy. However, I agree with Bandit in that this is not acting crazy - this is legitimately asking the school board how they can tolerate and maybe even encourage such behaviour with a shot across the bow about perhaps some alienation of affection being enabled here.
> 
> Perfectly legal, not crazy at all (quite the opposite).
> 
> So I still say, rain hell on him!


Unfortunately, alienation of affection is not recognized in my state. 

I have to see STBX tomorrow for a kids swap. I want to tell her one thing and one thing only before we drive off our separate ways. I want to tell her that I am disappointed that whatever she is doing with her "new life" is more important to her than being with her children everyday. And then leave it at that. I am going to cancel the meeting with the lawyer, I was planning on saying that statement to her then. We haven't spoken about our relationship face to face since DDay 3 months ago, and I don't want to have a discussion about it with her now. But I do want to look her in the eye and say that to her. I don't know what effect it will have on her, if any. I feel like I will always second guess myself if I don't say it to her. I honestly don't expect any reaction from her, but I want to get the board's opinion on saying this. I don't want to come across weak and defeated, I just want to make her think a little bit. But I have learned from prior conversations that things I say are not taken in the manner I thought they would be taken.


----------



## turnera

If you're saying it for the kids' benefit, fine. If you're saying it for YOUR benefit, she'll know. And will dismiss anything you say.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> Unfortunately, alienation of affection is not recognized in my state.
> 
> I have to see STBX tomorrow for a kids swap. I want to tell her one thing and one thing only before we drive off our separate ways. I want to tell her that I am disappointed that whatever she is doing with her "new life" is more important to her than being with her children everyday. And then leave it at that. I am going to cancel the meeting with the lawyer, I was planning on saying that statement to her then. We haven't spoken about our relationship face to face since DDay 3 months ago, and I don't want to have a discussion about it with her now. But I do want to look her in the eye and say that to her. I don't know what effect it will have on her, if any. I feel like I will always second guess myself if I don't say it to her. I honestly don't expect any reaction from her, but I want to get the board's opinion on saying this. I don't want to come across weak and defeated, I just want to make her think a little bit. But I have learned from prior conversations that things I say are not taken in the manner I thought they would be taken.


That's fine just say it no emotion.
alienation or not, you have to keep the pressure up regarding the school board.
That's all.


----------



## sandc

dadof2 said:


> Unfortunately, alienation of affection is not recognized in my state.
> 
> I have to see STBX tomorrow for a kids swap. I want to tell her one thing and one thing only before we drive off our separate ways. I want to tell her that *I find it repugnant that whatever she is doing with her "new life" is more important to her than being with her children everyday. And then leave it at that.* I am going to cancel the meeting with the lawyer, I was planning on saying that statement to her then. We haven't spoken about our relationship face to face since DDay 3 months ago, and I don't want to have a discussion about it with her now. But I do want to look her in the eye and say that to her. I don't know what effect it will have on her, if any. I feel like I will always second guess myself if I don't say it to her. I honestly don't expect any reaction from her, but I want to get the board's opinion on saying this. I don't want to come across weak and defeated, I just want to make her think a little bit. But I have learned from prior conversations that things I say are not taken in the manner I thought they would be taken.


Fixed it for you. Being disappointed sounds weak. Finding her actions repugnant is stronger.

Personally I think it goes without saying. Most decent people would view a mother who trades time with her kids for time with some asshat in a trailer as repugnant. But if you feel a need to openly state it to her...


----------



## barbados

Just my two cents here Dadof2, but I would say nothing ! Absolutely nothing ! 

Let your lawyer tear her a new one at the appropriate time.

Be as cold as ice now !


----------



## sandc

barbados said:


> Just my two cents here Dadof2, but I would say nothing ! Absolutely nothing !
> 
> Let your lawyer tear her a new one at the appropriate time.
> 
> Be as cold as ice now !


:iagree:

In fact, you should be texting someone when you meet with her. Act disinterested in anything she has to say. "Yeah." "Uh-huh."


----------



## dadof2

Well I was planning on saying that to her because I was going to cancel the meeting. I just got off the phone with my lawyer and she thinks the meeting needs to go forward, but not to have any talk about emotions or R or anything of that sort. There are some logistical issues we need to work out and my lawyer wants to stick to that plan. The biggest issue is her keeping the kids away from OM. My lawyer said we are not negotiating on that. She said either she complies or we put her on the stand as to why she keeps bringing them around. 

So it looks like I will not say anything to her at the drop off tomorrow. It usually happens very fast and we don't speak anyway, so this meeting won't be any different. I was against the meeting because I thought it would make us look weak like we are coming to the table looking for a deal, but my lawyer assured me that the items we will discuss are not negotiable.


----------



## How am I Going to Surviv

sandc said:


> In fact, you should be texting someone when you meet with her. Act disinterested in anything she has to say. "Yeah." "Uh-huh."


:iagree: This!

Act like: even if she is on a conveyor belt to hell, you don't care and you're too busy with your own life to do anything about it anyway. But, convey it with actions and attitude - not words.


----------



## Chaparral

Did you ever find out from his wife why they divorced or if he had ever cheated on her?


----------



## honcho

Don’t say anything about the meeting or your opinions to her about her great new life when you exchange the kids. 

The meeting with the lawyers is part of the “theater” of divorce, the two lawyers will posture and feel each others position out. You and her will most likely say very little. Your lawyer will push her buttons, her lawyer will push yours. 

Don’t be surprised if she doesn’t even attend the meeting when it happens. If her lawyer feels she will be confrontational or emotional he could very well tell her not to show up and he has the fall back of this great fear of you or such nonsense. Not much will get accomplished at the meeting so don’t be shocked at that yet its part of the dreaded process.


----------



## Nucking Futs

barbados said:


> Just my two cents here Dadof2, but I would say nothing ! Absolutely nothing !
> 
> Let your lawyer tear her a new one at the appropriate time.
> 
> Be as cold as ice now !


I agree that you shouldn't say anything, but if you just can't stand it and have to say something say this:



sandc said:


> Most decent people would view a mother who trades time with her kids for time with some asshat in a trailer as repugnant.


----------



## dadof2

We have our meeting with both attorneys scheduled for tomorrow morning. I am halfway expecting STBX to not even show up. She is a big talker and makes a lot of threats, but she never has been one to follow through on things.

I am meeting with my attorney for an hour beforehand to go over our strategy. I am going to ask her to do most of the talking, because I will have to restrain myself from jumping across the table if I get the chance. My lawyer told me earlier in the week that we are going to put our best foot forward in this meeting and even voluntarily give her a check for estimated child support dating back to the date of her filing. We aren't going to ask for negotiation or even see where they stand. Basically we are going in there to discuss a few items and then leave. I don't expect STBX to say much at all. 

I am trying to treat it like a business meeting, but I will have some emotions as this is the first time we have talked face to face in months.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> We have our meeting with both attorneys scheduled for tomorrow morning. I am halfway expecting STBX to not even show up. She is a big talker and makes a lot of threats, but she never has been one to follow through on things.
> 
> I am meeting with my attorney for an hour beforehand to go over our strategy. I am going to ask her to do most of the talking, because I will have to restrain myself from jumping across the table if I get the chance. My lawyer told me earlier in the week that we are going to put our best foot forward in this meeting and even voluntarily give her a check for estimated child support dating back to the date of her filing. We aren't going to ask for negotiation or even see where they stand. Basically we are going in there to discuss a few items and then leave. I don't expect STBX to say much at all.
> 
> I am trying to treat it like a business meeting, but I will have some emotions as this is the first time we have talked face to face in months.


Mouth shut
Ears open.


----------



## happyman64

Play it cool, like you do not have any cares in the world.

If she does show just watch her and listen to what she does say and does not say.

Anymore activity with the school board?


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> We have our meeting with both attorneys scheduled for tomorrow morning. I am halfway expecting STBX to not even show up. She is a big talker and makes a lot of threats, but she never has been one to follow through on things.
> 
> I am meeting with my attorney for an hour beforehand to go over our strategy. I am going to ask her to do most of the talking, because I will have to restrain myself from jumping across the table if I get the chance. My lawyer told me earlier in the week that we are going to put our best foot forward in this meeting and even voluntarily give her a check for estimated child support dating back to the date of her filing. We aren't going to ask for negotiation or even see where they stand. Basically we are going in there to discuss a few items and then leave. I don't expect STBX to say much at all.
> 
> I am trying to treat it like a business meeting, but I will have some emotions as this is the first time we have talked face to face in months.


Yep, just let your attorney do the talking as much as possible. 

IF you are asked any questions, answer with as few words as possible. "Yes" and "No" work very well. 

Sit there, watch, listen and learn.


----------



## turnera

Put a rubber band on your wrist and keep plucking at it, to remind you to not talk.


----------



## harrybrown

Good luck in your meeting. 

I do hope someday she will realize what she threw away.

Remember that she has proven to be your enemy, and not someone that you really knew.

I do hope that she will keep your kids away from the OM.


----------



## Chuck71

anyone can talk the talk

I take notice when they walk the walk

one thing pop taught me

you want respect, walk it.... right or wrong, walk it


----------



## dadof2

Well the meeting is over. Not much came from it, as expected. I gave her a check for the last 2 months of child support, as well as gave her information on setting up our communication through an online system approved by the courts. We also asked that she keep the kids away from OM, but she claimed her babysitting job is needed and that it is not affecting the children.

My lawyer asked about the restraining order and her lawyer said that she has a fear of me approaching her in public or showing up uninvited at her residence. They would not agree to drop it. At this point I don't really mind the restraining order, its not affecting my life in any way. I am just disappointed that she can justify bringing the kids around OM and his kids and not think there's anything wrong with that.

I did not have many expectations for the meeting, but I will admit I am starting to feel those old feelings I had when the separation first started. I feel weak and not able to eat. I don't know why, I guess it was just a big trigger to be sitting in a room with her again. I didn't expect her to show any remorse, but I guess we are both dealing with the reality of this situation.


----------



## tom67

They wouldn't drop the ro.
Well time to depose her and the om.
What a bunch of crap her supposed babysitting job.


----------



## PBear

I'm just baffled that now, almost two months after your initial post, she still hasn't had to prove or justify why she needs a restraining order...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Hang in there DO2.
Anytime seeing her will cause triggers. Her bull**** "babysitting" story is laughable. I'd still fight the restraining order. Don't allow them to treat you like a criminal for no reason.


----------



## honcho

This all all just part of the silly game called divorce unfortunately. Lawyers will rarely give up pieces on the chess board until they either have no choice or it benefits them greatly. 

The restraining order is a pawn and team stbx had no incentive to give it up now, team stbx has too much negotiating leverage with it and they will probably play that part out now until right before you actual court hearing when she will drop it since they have no real basis for it to begin with.


----------



## turnera

The real truth...3 years from now she'll be a distant memory to you - that ****ty POS you once thought was lovable. Hardly worth remembering except that the kids are related to her. Your life will be so full of amazing TRUSTWORTHY and HONORABLE people that even knowing her won't take up a moment's space in your head. She'll just be that mistake you almost got stuck with.


----------



## just got it 55

tom67 said:


> Mouth shut
> Ears open.


:iagree: I never learned a thing listening to myself talk

...............OK My dad use to say that 

55


----------



## lordmayhem

dadof2 said:


> My lawyer asked about the restraining order and her lawyer said that she has a fear of me approaching her in public or showing up uninvited at her residence. They would not agree to drop it. At this point I don't really mind the restraining order, its not affecting my life in any way. I am just disappointed that she can justify bringing the kids around OM and his kids and not think there's anything wrong with that.


May I ask where your lawyer got his degree? Out of a cracker jack box? WHY is your lawyer asking the other side to drop the RO/PO? WHY is your lawyer not helping you go to court to challenge the RO/PO? You have the right to contest the RO/PO, it's called due process. 

I see RO/POs thrown out all the time when the repondent (in this case you) challenge or contest the RO/PO. Yes, many judges err on the side of caution and grant RO/POs, but when the respondent challenges it, then the petitioner, has to show cause and proof about why the order should not be dropped. Sorry, her claiming to fear encountering you in public is not enough.


----------



## Ripper

Lawyers. For every 1 that actually advocates for their client, you have 9 more that do the minimal to draw a paycheck.

If something more pro-active isn't done, she will go to court, play the pvssy pass and OP will be lucky to have the clothes on his back and one weekend a month with the kids.


----------



## lordmayhem

Ripper said:


> Lawyers. For every 1 that actually advocates for their client, you have 9 more that do the minimal to draw a paycheck.
> 
> If something more pro-active isn't done, she will go to court, play the pvssy pass and OP will be lucky to have the clothes on his back and one weekend a month with the kids.


:iagree:

I really don't understanding this BEGGING the other side to drop the RO/PO. Why the hell isn't he contesting/challenging it in court directly. WTF?

The judge will either reaffirm the order or throw it out.


----------



## turnera

I agree that a discussion needs to take place with your lawyer about why she/he isn't doing much to FIGHT for you. This determines your bank account and your future with your kids, for at least the next 10-15 years; demand more!


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

So, in retrospect, do you still think that not exposing their affair to the schools administration was best course?

I wonder if by the time you bring exposure to the bargining table, it will be so old hat that no one will bat an eye about. Just saying.


----------



## 3putt

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> So, in retrospect, do you still think that not exposing their affair to the schools administration was best course?
> 
> I wonder if by the time you bring exposure to the bargining table, it will be so old hat that no one will bat an eye about. Just saying.


_Just saying_ hell!

How many times have we seen it play out like this when full nuclear exposure is held back for the sake of a chip in the game....like they know what the hell they are doing?

Too damned many.

People convincing themselves that their situation is somehow different than all the countless others before them is the biggest catalyst for failure around here. Pretty sad.


----------



## turnera

3putt said:


> How many times have we seen it play out like this when full nuclear exposure is held back for the sake of a chip in the game....


And then the lawyer chickens out and leaves you stranded with no ammunition.


----------



## tom67

3putt said:


> _Just saying_ hell!
> 
> How many times have we seen it play out like this when full nuclear exposure is held back for the sake of a chip in the game....like they know what the hell they are doing?
> 
> Too damned many.
> 
> People convincing themselves that their situation is somehow different than all the countless others before them is the biggest catalyst for failure around here. Pretty sad.


Sigh
Could have done it before the end of the school year.
Heartbreaking.


----------



## 3putt

turnera said:


> And then the lawyer chickens out and leaves you stranded with no ammunition.


Is it really chickening out, or just advising the client to lay low so he/she can get fully paid? They don't make nearly as much when divorce is off the table, so it's in their best financial interest to advise to let things run their course so they can get as much money as they can.

One of the many reasons I don't like lawyering up immediately. Too much self interest involved and not nearly enough true interest for their client.


----------



## PBear

He had a restraining order against him. Going "nutty" (for lack of a better word) with exposure while that was in place may not have been in his best interest. Without knowing the wording, it's difficult for us to say.

C


----------



## tom67

PBear said:


> He had a restraining order against him. Going "nutty" (for lack of a better word) with exposure while that was in place may not have been in his best interest. Without knowing the wording, it's difficult for us to say.
> 
> C


He could have exposed before she even filed.
Plus letting the schoolboard know an d the principal know I doubt that ties in with the ro


----------



## tom67

It's still not too late to put the pos on cheaterville and send to everyone on the school board and to the local press.


----------



## EleGirl

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> So, in retrospect, do you still think that not exposing their affair to the schools administration was best course?
> 
> I wonder if by the time you bring exposure to the bargining table, it will be so old hat that no one will bat an eye about. Just saying.


My understanding is that it has been exposed to the school administrators. Their response was that the only recourse is if his wife files a harassment claim.


----------



## tom67

EleGirl said:


> My understanding is that it has been exposed to the school administrators. Their response was that the only recourse is if his wife files a harassment claim.


If he makes it public it could force their hand though.


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2,

Your lawyer should contest the RO.

What did your PI discover about her overnight babysitting.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## EleGirl

tom67 said:


> If he makes it public it could force their hand though.


I doubt it. There is not a media source here where I live that would give a hoot about such an affair. It's not news. Dadof2 does not even have any proof of an affair. All it would look like is him going off his rocker.


----------



## tom67

EleGirl said:


> I doubt it. There is not a media source here where I live that would give a hoot about such an affair. It's not news. Dadof2 does not even have any proof of an affair. All it would look like is him going off his rocker.


Eh if you make it "uncomfortable" for the principal and others they will get lazy so to speak and just rid themselves of said problem.
Because they can.
I don't know we shall see.


----------



## bandit.45

EleGirl said:


> My understanding is that it has been exposed to the school administrators. Their response was that the only recourse is if his wife files a harassment claim.


Yes because it was done behind closed doors....

Go to a public school board meeting, with a captive audience, with the school board members' backs against the wall and tell the audience what is going on? Well then the game changes.


----------



## Chaparral

tom67 said:


> It's still not too late to put the pos on cheaterville and send to everyone on the school board and to the local press.


Not going to happen. All that's left here is to pick up some left over crumbs and make believe its a good thing. This one was lost early on through inaction. Attorneys suck when it comes to infidelity.


----------



## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> Yes because it was done behind closed doors....
> 
> Go to a public school board meeting, with a captive audience, with the school board members' backs against the wall and tell the audience what is going on? Well then the game changes.


Can't do that, the attorney has a reputation in town to keep up. Can't make waves with the powers that be.

She's going to fill out some papers, someday go before a judge, take their whipping and then pat him on the back and blame the judges bias. Sos


----------



## honcho

He is contesting the RO, he has already petitioned the judge to drop the RO because it was baseless and the judge denied his request. He has a hearing scheduled for the RO. In order to get his due process he has to play the game and we all know the wheels on injustice grind slowly. Its about the only laws on the books that you need no proof to get one, just a wild claim and you get one.

Odds are she will drop the claim right before the hearing since they have no proof, they wait till the last minute hoping you hang yourself because it is so easy to violate them. 




lordmayhem said:


> May I ask where your lawyer got his degree? Out of a cracker jack box? WHY is your lawyer asking the other side to drop the RO/PO? WHY is your lawyer not helping you go to court to challenge the RO/PO? You have the right to contest the RO/PO, it's called due process.
> 
> I see RO/POs thrown out all the time when the repondent (in this case you) challenge or contest the RO/PO. Yes, many judges err on the side of caution and grant RO/POs, but when the respondent challenges it, then the petitioner, has to show cause and proof about why the order should not be dropped. Sorry, her claiming to fear encountering you in public is not enough.


----------



## Dyokemm

"I doubt it. There is not a media source here where I live that would give a hoot about such an affair."

Elegirl,

I guarantee you that the PTA association at the sire would care...I've seen it happen.

Ironically, I mentioned this thread to my sister who is also a teacher in another district, and she told me pressure from the irate PTA at her site actually forced the district to transfer the A parties to different sites.

The vast majority of parents DO NOT want their kids being exposed to interaction with educators and administrators who are engaged in extra-marital relationships.


----------



## azteca1986

Dyokemm said:


> "I doubt it. There is not a media source here where I live that would give a hoot about such an affair."
> 
> Elegirl,
> 
> I guarantee you that the PTA association at the sire would care...I've seen it happen.
> 
> Ironically, I mentioned this thread to my sister who is also a teacher in another district, and she told me pressure from the irate PTA at her site actually forced the district to transfer the A parties to different sites.
> 
> The vast majority of parents DO NOT want their kids being exposed to interaction with educators and administrators who are engaged in extra-marital relationships.


If my recollection is correct dadof2's own father carries some weight in the community. Would it be violating the RO if he were approach the school again and say: 

"My son is upset and emotional that this relationship (between OM and WW) was allowed to flourish on school grounds. Now a senior member has access to his family time which [dadof2] is denied. He's distraught and threatening to talk to the press. Before the school gets dragged into the mud and parents start questioning exactly what sort of values you are teaching their kids at the school, you need to take concrete steps to bear on a senior member of staff who is happy to break up families. I can only dissuade my son for so long..."

Might that work?


----------



## Dyokemm

Azteca,

Yep....I think it is definitely worth a shot.

Districts are VERY sensitive to public scandals like this....crap like this really upsets parents.

At my site in the 1990's, I remember parents being very angry that an A between two teachers was not being dealt with by the administrators....of course the guilty parties claimed they had always been discreet and there was no way the students knew....turns out the kids were gossiping about it weeks before one of the BSs made the administration aware and several co-workers knew as well.

Angry parents got the district to force transfers fast.


----------



## LongWalk

The window of opportunity to expose via CV closes with new school year.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Chaparral

Full blown exposure would probably had her crawling back and the posom looking for a new job. The attorneys would be making no money.
But............he would have to look at a cheating woman every day. This is working out ofr the best.


----------



## dadof2

I appreciate all of the advice given here, especially related to exposure. But with the restraining order in place, I am operating with both hands tied behind my back. Right now STBX has offered 50/50 custody, which is the best deal I can get. Anything I do to expose or post on a website would be considered harassment and I would be in violation of the RO, and STBX could get more custody.

As much as I wanted to start dropping bombs on the affair, the risk factor of losing my children wasn't worth it. And for what, to have my cheating wife back?

We had our meeting yesterday and she showed no sign of remorse or wanting to slow the divorce down, so I gave the same impression. I am taking the children on vacation next week and I told her that the few belongings she left in the house will be on the back porch and whatever is still there when I get back is going to be burned. I am still emotionally hurt that my marriage is over, but I am trying to put her behind me and detach from the poison that she inflicted on me over the last few years.

I am starting to realize that she is truly a broken person, and that this OM will only last so long before she starts projecting her issues onto him. The sad thing is that she and I have children together so I am tied to her forever. I am still hurt by the rejection and losing valuable time with my kids, but I am trying to convince myself that I am better off without her.


----------



## Chaparral

You're better off without her now. 

Look up infidelity statistics, they have a three percent chance of staying together. They have a ten percent chance of lasting three years.

I would still write a letter to every school board member about him though.

Reporting him on cheaterville has nothing to do with your wife if you don't name her.


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, most states are no fault and custody is 50/50 anyway.


----------



## FromEurope

dadof2 said:


> I am starting to realize that she is truly a broken person, and that this OM will only last so long before she starts projecting her issues onto him. The sad thing is that she and I have children together so I am tied to her forever. I am still hurt by the rejection and losing valuable time with my kids, but I am trying to convince myself that I am better off without her.



And you will be better off..... Also don't think that having children together with your stbxw is something sad, i live a wonderful life with my D14 had from my ew, and she get's along very well with my current wife. Once you start living better YOU WILL START FEELING BETTER....positive things happen to positive people


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> You're better off without her now.
> 
> Look up infidelity statistics, they have a three percent chance of staying together. They have a ten percent chance of lasting three years.
> 
> I would still write a letter to every school board member about him though.
> 
> Reporting him on cheaterville has nothing to do with your wife if you don't name her.


Yes just put him on cheaterville it has nothing to do with her.
then email it to every school board member you are not messing with her.


----------



## dadof2

I have been reading through the board a good bit and found a book called "Stop Walking on Eggshells." It is about dealing with someone who has Borderline Personality Disorder. I am reading the criteria for this disorder and it seems STBX has a lot of the traits. I am not trying to diagnose her, but just reading the first few pages of the book has been eye opening because so much of it exactly mirrors what I have been putting up with over the last few years.

I couldn't care less if she gets help, but at least it shows me that I am not to blame for everything. Sure there are mistakes I made during the marriage, but nothing that would lead to a divorce. She chose to cheat as her way out, and she sees OM as the new "savor" and me as the "persecutor." When we began dating she left someone who was "abusing" her. I see clearly now that this is her pattern of behavior. I was her savior back then but now she has projected all of her insecurities on me and this new guy is the new savior.

I just can't understand how her family doesn't see that. She has them all fooled. Back on DDay she told her mom that she had been texting OM and that they had kissed, but now mom is okay with her babysitting at his house all summer and I am the one who needs to get over it? I would hope deep down they know its wrong but just won't admit it. Surely these people aren't as dumb as they are acting.


----------



## Foghorn

Hi Dad

I think you're already better off. I know the Eggshells book very well. If you're correct, Uptown's post from the thread "my list of hell" may be of interest.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell-2.html

BPD are very good at manipulating the feelings of others. The closer you are to the BPD person, the worse they can treat you. She previously "split you white" as her knight in shining armor, now that she's got a new man, she's "split you black". She'll never see people the way they really are, in shades of gray.

I'm sure she's got her own family snowed - it's much easier for them to believe that son-in-law was a bad dude, than it is for them to believe that dear daughter is a sl0ot, Awful, I know, and not your fault.

Far as I can tell, none of this is your fault. I agree 50/50 is damn good, get it in writing with the judge's decree and begin your life anew. You and the kids are better off the long run.

My best to you.
-FH


----------



## sandc

dadof2 said:


> As much as I wanted to start dropping bombs on the affair, the risk factor of losing my children wasn't worth it. And for what, to have my cheating wife back?


Good outlook.



dadof2 said:


> We had our meeting yesterday and she showed no sign of remorse or wanting to slow the divorce down, so I gave the same impression. I am taking the children on vacation next week and I told her that the few belongings she left in the house will be on the back porch and *whatever is still there when I get back is going to be burned. *


Just trying to be objective here but if others hear you say things like "I'm going to burn your stuff." It's going to give that RO credence. It gives you the appearance of being dangerous.

That being said, I think you've got the right attitude. I'd send the guy a letter thanking him for your freedom.


----------



## dadof2

sandc said:


> Good outlook.
> 
> 
> 
> J*ust trying to be objective here but if others hear you say things like "I'm going to burn your stuff."* It's going to give that RO credence. It gives you the appearance of being dangerous.
> 
> That being said, I think you've got the right attitude. I'd send the guy a letter thanking him for your freedom.


Well TBH, I just said it will be given away, lol. I told my attorney before the meeting that I would take it to the burn pile, and she said the same thing you did.


----------



## PBear

Unfortunately, you (and everyone else) is warned that blood is thicker than water. Happens a lot. Not your fault. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

dadof2 said:


> Well TBH, I just said it will be given away, lol. I told my attorney before the meeting that I would take it to the burn pile, and she said the same thing you did.


:smthumbup:

Though I'm a little concerned that I think like a lady attorney.


----------



## helolover

dadof2 said:


> I have been reading through the board a good bit and found a book called "Stop Walking on Eggshells." It is about dealing with someone who has Borderline Personality Disorder. I am reading the criteria for this disorder and it seems STBX has a lot of the traits. I am not trying to diagnose her, but just reading the first few pages of the book has been eye opening because so much of it exactly mirrors what I have been putting up with over the last few years.
> 
> I couldn't care less if she gets help, but at least it shows me that I am not to blame for everything. Sure there are mistakes I made during the marriage, but nothing that would lead to a divorce. She chose to cheat as her way out, and she sees OM as the new "savor" and me as the "persecutor." When we began dating she left someone who was "abusing" her. I see clearly now that this is her pattern of behavior. I was her savior back then but now she has projected all of her insecurities on me and this new guy is the new savior.
> 
> I just can't understand how her family doesn't see that. She has them all fooled. Back on DDay she told her mom that she had been texting OM and that they had kissed, but now mom is okay with her babysitting at his house all summer and I am the one who needs to get over it? I would hope deep down they know its wrong but just won't admit it. Surely these people aren't as dumb as they are acting.


My X is exactly the same as your STBX. Always needing a rescue, but throws away the life-ring when tossed to her. Damsel in distress looking for a white knight. I was my X's white knight too. She cheated her way out, cut me out of her life cold, blamed ME and abandoned everything. That's how they do. 

I recommend this article. This is my X. Maybe you see some of your STBX in the article: 

BORDERLINE WAIFS AND UNSUNG HEROES; Rescuing The Woman Who Doesn't Want To Be Saved.

I recommend also reading Bill Eddy's stuff. He has a few good books you can buy on Amazon. Bill is a therapist and a lawyer. 

Start here: Who Are High Conflict People? - High Conflict Institute

I highly recommend: "Splitting" and "BIFF" Books, CDs, DVDs - High Conflict Institute

Once I figured out that my X was at the very least a high conflict personality (HCP) and at worst a borderline, reading these books helped me greatly in trying to communicate with her (when necessary). It helps you to see the problem and step away from their drama triangle. 

As far as he parents go - Heat transfer theory of relationships: Heat off them is heat on you. You think they want to deal with her personality disorder? For her parents, It's easier to keep the "peace" by living within her narrative of events. They don't actually think you are a doosh, but will make the obvious choice of siding with her in any contest. Blood indeed is thicker than water.


----------



## lordmayhem

dadof2 said:


> I appreciate all of the advice given here, especially related to exposure. But with the restraining order in place, I am operating with both hands tied behind my back.


Again, WHY are you not contesting or challenging the RO? Why aren't you answering this? Why are you not putting her on the stand so she can explain to the judge why the RO needs to be kept in place. If you have not done anything wrong, you should be able to have it thrown out.



dadof2 said:


> I am taking the children on vacation next week and *I told her that the few belongings she left in the house will be on the back porch and whatever is still there when I get back is going to be burned*












WTF is wrong with you? If that's the kind of stuff you pull, then forget about contesting the RO. 

I'm beginning to wonder if this story is even real.


----------



## dadof2

lordmayhem said:


> Again, WHY are you not contesting or challenging the RO? Why aren't you answering this? Why are you not putting her on the stand so she can explain to the judge why the RO needs to be kept in place. If you have not done anything wrong, you should be able to have it thrown out.
> 
> 
> WTF is wrong with you? If that's the kind of stuff you pull, then forget about contesting the RO.
> 
> I'm beginning to wonder if this story is even real.


WTF man, our hearing is not until August, then we will contest the RO. We already filed a petition to have it removed and the judge didn't sign it. As far as getting rid of her things, what is wrong with that?? Most people here are taking the torch and pitchfork mentality of the mob so I figured you all would love the idea of burning the wayward's belongings?

I don't plan on burning them, I just want them out of the house and she will have a week to come get them and whatever she doesn't take will be thrown away. Is that better??


----------



## lordmayhem

dadof2 said:


> Most people here are taking the torch and pitchfork mentality of the mob so I figured you all would love the idea of burning the wayward's belongings?


While there's an RO in place and you're trying to have it thrown out? Seriously?



dadof2 said:


> I don't plan on burning them, I just want them out of the house and she will have a week to come get them and whatever she doesn't take will be thrown away. Is that better??


Doesn't negate the fact that you told her you were going to do it. So when the judge asks you "Did you in fact tell her you were going to burn her property?" What are you going to say? That you didn't mean it? Sure, that will score you points toward removing the RO.


----------



## Nucking Futs

lordmayhem said:


> While there's an RO in place and you're trying to have it thrown out? Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't negate the fact that you told her you were going to do it. So when the judge asks you "Did you in fact tell her you were going to burn her property?" What are you going to say? That you didn't mean it? Sure, that will score you points toward removing the RO.


He told _his lawyer_ he would burn them and _she_ put the kibosh on that idea. He didn't tell his wife that, he just told her he would throw away whatever she didn't take. It's in a post 7 or 8 above yours.


----------



## dadof2

lordmayhem said:


> While there's an RO in place and you're trying to have it thrown out? Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't negate the fact that you told her you were going to do it. So when the judge asks you "Did you in fact tell her you were going to burn her property?" What are you going to say? That you didn't mean it? Sure, that will score you points toward removing the RO.


I didn't say they were going to be burned. I made that comment to my own lawyer, and she said in the meeting that anything left after the week is over will be disposed of. I was just embellishing a little bit, please forgive me.

Of course I don't want to do anything to violate the RO, which is why I said I feel like I am fighting with both hands behind my back. But some of the posters here said I should have done more, and maybe I should have, but I did not dare risk violating the RO and lose custody of my children. This is such a long process, and I am a "fix-it" type of guy, so I want to jump in and get this over with, but I am having to learn patience during this process.


----------



## Affaircare

Yeah, note to self, people may not know that if Person #1 requests a RO from Person #2, Person #1 files the request and the judge has 2 days to decide whether or not to issue a TEMPORARY RO. 

Often a Temporary RO is granted and a hearing date is set about a month in the future. During the Temporary time, an attorney can ask to have the RO dismissed or Person #1 can drop it, but if there's not overwhelming evidence and Person #1 doesn't drop it, usually the judge will just wait until the hearing. So for that month of the Temporary RO there's not much a person can do -- their hands are pretty tied whether they are innocent or not is irrelevant. All Person #1 has to claim is that "threats were made" and they were afraid. 

So when the hearing date finally comes up, the burden of proof is on Person #1 to prove why it needs to be extended. If it was a divorce ploy, often they don't even make the attempt to "prove" it and the judge just dismisses it--and there are no real consequences because from a legal standpoint, trial was "swift" and Person #1 just didn't meet the qualifications for extending the RO. 

Examples of offenses that qualify to extend an RO:

Recent physical violence (past 6 months)
Recent threats of physical violence (past 3-6 months)
Harassment (excessive phone calls, threatening or upsetting notes, etc.)
Recent sexual assault or molestation
Stalking
Very severe verbal abuse

Examples of evidence that qualifies as 'reasonable proof':

A signed statement detailing particular incidents of abuse with dates
Printed copy of an email with threats
Video of extreme verbal abuse
Police reports of recent incidents
Medical/hospital records
Photographs of injuries
Emergency Protective Orders
Criminal Protective Order

So come August will be the first time that dadof2 will really have any chance to do anything to defend himself, other than not blowing the Temporary RO! If he can avoid that, chances are pretty good she won't have the evidence to extend it and he MAY have the evidence that it was a false report. The trick is that in the eyes of the court, unless there's evidence it was blatantly FALSE, the court will view it as if she was afraid or there was a threat "at the time."


----------



## GusPolinski

Good to read the latest updates, if only to see that your head is still on straight. Stay strong and stay the course, sir... your kids need you.


----------



## dadof2

STBX is bringing me the kids on Sunday and I am taking them on vacation for a week. I am trying to think of something to say when she leaves along the lines of "Have fun babysitting your new family this week, your old family will be enjoying our vacation without you. BTW your sh!t is in the garage."

Up until this point I have been civil and non combative, but I want to start putting a few jabs in when I get the chance... What you guys got??


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> STBX is bringing me the kids on Sunday and I am taking them on vacation for a week. I am trying to think of something to say when she leaves along the lines of "Have fun babysitting your new family this week, your old family will be enjoying our vacation without you. BTW your sh!t is in the garage."
> 
> Up until this point I have been civil and non combative, but I want to start putting a few jabs in when I get the chance... What you guys got??


I'd keep it simple. Don't say anything that will upset the kids. Maybe just something like...

"We're leaving Sunday evening and will be gone for a week. I'll have your things on the back porch. Per our arrangement, anything left when I return will be thrown out."

Question... have you had the locks changed?


----------



## sandc

dadof2 said:


> STBX is bringing me the kids on Sunday and I am taking them on vacation for a week. I am trying to think of something to say when she leaves along the lines of "Have fun babysitting your new family this week, your old family will be enjoying our vacation without you. BTW your sh!t is in the garage."
> 
> Up until this point I have been civil and non combative, but I want to start putting a few jabs in when I get the chance... What you guys got??


I would just act disinterested in her and focus on the kids and how much fun you'll have with them. I wouldn't engage her in any kind of conversation.


----------



## karole

Be sure to put her stuff in "trash" bags - that will make a statement without saying a word.


----------



## dadof2

Yes the locks have been changed. Trash bags and boxes will be used to store her sh!t. She also mentioned yesterday that the couch and dining room table in my house is hers. I am putting it out there too, I can have new ones in the next day. I am ready to move this D along faster than she is.


----------



## treyvion

tom67 said:


> Playing nice or scared never wins.


Relationships aren't supposed to be about winning.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Yes the locks have been changed. Trash bags and boxes will be used to store her sh!t. She also mentioned yesterday that the couch and dining room table in my house is hers. I am putting it out there too, I can have new ones in the next day. I am ready to move this D along faster than she is.


Put the couch and dining table outside and in the grass the night before. Let the morning dew "freshen" them up.


----------



## GusPolinski

treyvion said:


> Relationships aren't supposed to be about winning.


I disagree... it just depends on your definition of "winning".


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Put the couch and dining table outside and in the grass the night before. Let the morning dew "freshen" them up.


You are bad Gus:FIREdevil:
But I like it.


----------



## GusPolinski

tom67 said:


> You are bad Gus:FIREdevil:
> But I like it.


Can't be cotton candy kisses and kitty whiskers all the time...

2000!


----------



## 3putt

GusPolinski said:


> Put the couch and dining table outside and in the grass the night before. Let the morning dew "freshen" them up.


You could also leave a gift wrapped copy of The Scarlett Letter on the table.


----------



## karole

3putt said:


> You could also leave a gift wrapped copy of The Scarlett Letter on the table.


And an AC/DC "Highway to Hell" CD.


----------



## MovingAhead

dadof2 said:


> WTF man, our hearing is not until August, then we will contest the RO. We already filed a petition to have it removed and the judge didn't sign it. As far as getting rid of her things, what is wrong with that?? Most people here are taking the torch and pitchfork mentality of the mob so I figured you all would love the idea of burning the wayward's belongings?
> 
> I don't plan on burning them, I just want them out of the house and she will have a week to come get them and whatever she doesn't take will be thrown away. Is that better??


Put them in a storage locker for 2 months. Notify her of it in writing. Tell her she needs to get any of the stuff in the locker if she wants it. Tell her you will be giving it to Goodwill if not. Never say it is 'her' stuff. Say it is 'our' things. Make sure she has to get the stuff then if not give it away.


----------



## MovingAhead

dadof2 said:


> STBX is bringing me the kids on Sunday and I am taking them on vacation for a week. I am trying to think of something to say when she leaves along the lines of "Have fun babysitting your new family this week, your old family will be enjoying our vacation without you. BTW your sh!t is in the garage."
> 
> Up until this point I have been civil and non combative, but I want to start putting a few jabs in when I get the chance... What you guys got??


Don't say anything. She is irrelevant so don't give her the time. Be apathetic, not angry.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

So basically you lost on every point? Your lawyer got her ass handed to her.




dadof2 said:


> Well the meeting is over. Not much came from it, as expected. I gave her a check for the last 2 months of child support, as well as gave her information on setting up our communication through an online system approved by the courts. We also asked that she keep the kids away from OM, but she claimed her babysitting job is needed and that it is not affecting the children.
> 
> 
> 
> My lawyer asked about the restraining order and her lawyer said that she has a fear of me approaching her in public or showing up uninvited at her residence. They would not agree to drop it. At this point I don't really mind the restraining order, its not affecting my life in any way. I am just disappointed that she can justify bringing the kids around OM and his kids and not think there's anything wrong with that.
> 
> 
> 
> I did not have many expectations for the meeting, but I will admit I am starting to feel those old feelings I had when the separation first started. I feel weak and not able to eat. I don't know why, I guess it was just a big trigger to be sitting in a room with her again. I didn't expect her to show any remorse, but I guess we are both dealing with the reality of this situation.


----------



## Affaircare

WorkingOnMe said:


> So basically you lost on every point? Your lawyer got her ass handed to her.


I would have to disagree. The day she got the Temporary RO, a date was set to have a trial for Permanent RO. That date is in August or about 2-3 weeks away. If a trial is set, it is VERY unusual for a judge to dismiss a Temporary RO and his lawyer tried for it. It's also fairly unusual for someone to agree to dismiss an RO if they applied for one, because that puts them in the position of looking like they filed a false report. 

So STBX filed for Temp RO
Trial is set for mid-August 
Attorney requested dismissal
Judge refused to just dismiss--said wait for trial
Attorney officially asked STBX to dismiss
They refused so as not to weaken their case

Now we just wait it out until mid-August where SHE HAS TO PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt using qualifying evidence that the RO should be made permanent. If she can't it will be closed by the judge. 

I don't see that dadof2's attorney had their @ss handed to them. The due diligence of moving for dismissal and asking STBX to drop it were done.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

All I can say is, based on the interactions do2 is describing, his stbxw's lawyer sounds like a pit bull and his lawyer sounds very tentative and meek.

If it's so easy to get a temporary order, why doesn't his lawyer file one against the OM and say that he fears for his children?


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

dadof2 said:


> Yes the locks have been changed. Trash bags and boxes will be used to store her sh!t. She also mentioned yesterday that the couch and dining room table in my house is hers. I am putting it out there too, I can have new ones in the next day. I am ready to move this D along faster than she is.


Any chance you could have them set up in the house, with the curtains open wide enough for someone snooping 2 see?

Get something nice, like an antique Indian rosewood table with 8 matching chairs! 

-ol' 2long


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

karole said:


> And an AC/DC "Highway to Hell" CD.


Or even better: Tonio K's "H A T R E D"

"*Now I know it's not unusual
There's nothin' so unique
There's probably hundreds of wonderful love affairs
That go bad in this town every week
(It's a big town)
But all of them others
Them sad-hearted lovers
Could cry in their beer what the hey
It didn't concern me
Was none of my business
I never had nothin' to say
But suddenly darlin'
The table has turned
You have left me for somebody new
And now it's hard
To express the resentment I feel
For the years that I wasted on you

But let me kinda put this another way
Okay?

Eins, Zwei, Drei, Vier!

(*Repeat above with last line
For the years that I p*ssed away on you)


I'm so full of
H-a-t-r-e-d
I'm bitter I'm malign
You got me
P-i-s-s-e-d Off
I'm angry most of the time
Why don't you
G-o-t-o-h-e-double “l”
You tramp, you philandering b*tch
I'm going to
K-i-l-l
One of us baby give me time and I'll decide on which

Now wait a minute
I know I'm acting immature
I'm acting like a child
I should display some self-control
Instead of going wild like this
And I wish I could accept all this
As simply life
Which includes pain
And act upon the actual fact
That nobody's to blame
Yes I wish I was as mellow
As for instance Jackson Browne
But "fountains of sorrow" my a** m*th*r f*ck*r
I hope you wind up in the ground


I'm so full of
H-a-t-r-e-d
I'm bitter I'm malign
You got me
P-i-s-s-e-d Off
I'm angry most of the time
Why don't you
G-o-t-o-h-e-double "l"
You tramp, you philandering b*tch
I'm going to
K-i-l-l one of us baby
When I'm sober I'll decide on which

H-A-T-R-E-D
What's that spell? (3 times)

(But then again maybe with the proper counseling
We can work this out)"


----------



## happyman64

Dad of 2

I know you are frustrated. Most Everyone else is frustrated as well.

Be patient. August is not that far away.

Get your D and custody settled.

Then burn the OM if you are inclined to.

Let your wife support him. They deserve each other.

HM


----------



## ariel_angel77

GusPolinski said:


> Put the couch and dining table outside and in the grass the night before. Let the morning dew "freshen" them up.





3putt said:


> You could also leave a gift wrapped copy of The Scarlett Letter on the table.


Yes!! This is amazing. :iagree::iagree: :smthumbup:
:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## EleGirl

MovingAhead said:


> Put them in a storage locker for 2 months. Notify her of it in writing. Tell her she needs to get any of the stuff in the locker if she wants it. Tell her you will be giving it to Goodwill if not. Never say it is 'her' stuff. Say it is 'our' things. Make sure she has to get the stuff then if not give it away.


:iagree: Use a rented storage space. This way she has no excuse to come to your place, be on your porch, etc.

When she shows up to drop off the children, hand her an envelop with a note saying something like:

-------------------------------------------------------
The items of marital property that you requested are in:
storage unit ##
lock combination xx, xx, xx
address blah blah.

I've paid 2 months rent on the unit for 2 months. Anything left in the storage unit on August 25, 2014 (or a date 2 months from rental date) will be disposed of.

Due to the RO I am not comfortable with you being anywhere near my home.

-------------------------------------------------------
Keep a copy of the note for your records.

Just hand it to her. Say nothing to her except maybe "bye" when she drops the children off.

the least you say the better off you are.


----------



## turnera

MovingAhead said:


> Put them in a storage locker for 2 months. Notify her of it in writing. Tell her she needs to get any of the stuff in the locker if she wants it. Tell her you will be giving it to Goodwill if not. Never say it is 'her' stuff. Say it is 'our' things. Make sure she has to get the stuff then if not give it away.


The easier version of this is to put the storage room in her name, give her the key, and inform her that if they don't get paid next month's rent, they sell the contents. So she has a month to get it out and what happens to it after that is none of your business.

Ele's version is more elaborate.


----------



## EleGirl

turnera said:


> The easier version of this is to put the storage room in her name, give her the key, and inform her that if they don't get paid next month's rent, they sell the contents. So she has a month to get it out and what happens to it after that is none of your business.
> 
> Ele's version is more elaborate.


When I tried to rent a storage unit for my step son it required that the renter provide a valid gov issued ID. My step son had to be there with his ID to have the unit in his name. He had to sign the contract because it was in his name.

Now it might not be like that everywhere. Maybe some places allow others to rent units in other people's names. I don't know. 

My reason for suggesting the note (and keeping a copy of it) is that then there is a record of exactly that he told her about the unit and the stuff. Records are wise when talking about divorce, RO's and property division. 

Shoot I would also take pictures of the stuff in the unit to prove that it was there and in good condition. that way she cannot come back and say that the ruined it and request $$ to replace it.


.


----------



## 3putt

EleGirl said:


> When I tried to rent a storage unit for my step son it required that the renter provide a valid gov issued ID. My step son had to be there with his ID to have the unit in his name. He had to sign the contract because it was in his name.
> 
> Now it might not be like that everywhere. Maybe some places allow others to rent units in other people's names. I don't know.
> 
> My reason for suggesting the note (and keeping a copy of it) is that then there is a record of exactly that he told her about the unit and the stuff. Records are wise when talking about divorce, RO's and property division.
> 
> Shoot I would also take pictures of the stuff in the unit to prove that it was there and in good condition. that way she cannot come back and say that the ruined it and request $$ to replace it.
> 
> 
> .


I think that where you are is the exception to the rule as I've seen this done many times with no problems whatsoever.

But after thinking about it, I would actually be there when she comes and gets it, and be cordial. The goal at this point is to have the TRO removed, and if he has evidence in hand that she has no problem going over to his house to drop off kids and/or pick up items of interest when it suits her, then a judge is gonna wonder why she felt threatened enough to request it to begin with.

I would delay in getting the table and whatever to her until you get back off vacay for the sake of evidence collecting to refute the need for this bogus TRO.

Let her hang herself. She's done pretty well so far.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

I'll start this of by saying, I'm an a$$hole, but here's what I would do.

Go buy one of those fake surveillance cameras. The kind that have a red light on, flashing, like they're real. Cost about $10 at radio shack.

Set it up in a winow facing the back porch. Put the table, chairs, etc. under this window. Then tape a note under the camera, on the inside of the window(facing out) saying.

"SMILE :0)"

If she was ballsy enough to have the OM help her pick up her stuff, she will think that you have the video on file. I'm willing to bet her first call will be to her lawyer, her next will be to you. She'd try to explain why he was there.

I wouldn't say a word back to her about it if she called me. I'd only ask if she picked everything up. Once she answered me about it, I'd say that's all I needed to know. The I'd hang up.

She would be squirming for days if she thought that there was a video of her showing up at her stbxh's house to pick up her crap with the guy she cheated on him with. AND at the time, she had a RO on her Husband for her and the OM's safety.

Like I said, I'm an a$$hole, but that's the way I would do it.

Ahhh, who am I trying to kid. I'd have a real camera there. I'd want to see the look on her face if she had brought numbnuts with her and then realized that I was recording. It'd be worth it.


----------



## GusPolinski

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Ahhh, who am I trying to kid. *I'd have a real camera there.* I'd want to see the look on her face if she had brought numbnuts with her and then realized that I was recording. It'd be worth it.


Exactly. Hell, I'd have one there and rolling when she dropped the kids off. I'd then proceed to have a very cordial interaction w/ her... with the camera capturing all of it.

Or even better -- have the PI on standby to record the encounter.


----------



## honcho

dadof2 said:


> I have been reading through the board a good bit and found a book called "Stop Walking on Eggshells." It is about dealing with someone who has Borderline Personality Disorder. I am reading the criteria for this disorder and it seems STBX has a lot of the traits. I am not trying to diagnose her, but just reading the first few pages of the book has been eye opening because so much of it exactly mirrors what I have been putting up with over the last few years.
> 
> I couldn't care less if she gets help, but at least it shows me that I am not to blame for everything. Sure there are mistakes I made during the marriage, but nothing that would lead to a divorce. She chose to cheat as her way out, and she sees OM as the new "savor" and me as the "persecutor." When we began dating she left someone who was "abusing" her. I see clearly now that this is her pattern of behavior. I was her savior back then but now she has projected all of her insecurities on me and this new guy is the new savior.
> 
> I just can't understand how her family doesn't see that. She has them all fooled. Back on DDay she told her mom that she had been texting OM and that they had kissed, but now mom is okay with her babysitting at his house all summer and I am the one who needs to get over it? I would hope deep down they know its wrong but just won't admit it. Surely these people aren't as dumb as they are acting.


Her family isnt fooled, they just refuse to see what is going on. Some parents will just never look at there children in a bad light. They couldnt possibly have raised a child that has faults. Its easier for them to blame you than take an honest look at her. The bulk of the time this is what parents and family do. 

As someone said already Uptown has several very well written posts on the BPD subject.


----------



## EleGirl

3putt said:


> I think that where you are is the exception to the rule as I've seen this done many times with no problems whatsoever.
> 
> But after thinking about it, I would actually be there when she comes and gets it, and be cordial. The goal at this point is to have the TRO removed, and if he has evidence in hand that she has no problem going over to his house to drop off kids and/or pick up items of interest when it suits her, then a judge is gonna wonder why she felt threatened enough to request it to begin with.
> 
> I would delay in getting the table and whatever to her until you get back off vacay for the sake of evidence collecting to refute the need for this bogus TRO.
> 
> Let her hang herself. She's done pretty well so far.


Dadof2 is going to put the stuff on the porch so that she can pick it up while he's out of town with the children. So her coming over to get the stuff while he is clearly not around does not prove anything about her being safe being around him.


----------



## Nucking Futs

3putt said:


> I think that where you are is the exception to the rule as I've seen this done many times with no problems whatsoever.
> 
> But after thinking about it, I would actually be there when she comes and gets it, and be cordial. The goal at this point is to have the TRO removed, and if he has evidence in hand that she has no problem going over to his house to drop off kids and/or pick up items of interest when it suits her, then a judge is gonna wonder why she felt threatened enough to request it to begin with.
> 
> I would delay in getting the table and whatever to her until you get back off vacay for the sake of evidence collecting to refute the need for this bogus TRO.
> 
> Let her hang herself. She's done pretty well so far.


Any storage operator that would let you rent a unit in someone else name without a power of attorney authorizing you to sign a contract for that person is a fool who deserves the financial pain he's eventually going to feel.


----------



## jim123

dadof2 said:


> Yes the locks have been changed. Trash bags and boxes will be used to store her sh!t. She also mentioned yesterday that the couch and dining room table in my house is hers. I am putting it out there too, I can have new ones in the next day. I am ready to move this D along faster than she is.


Put the stuff in storage.

Work on you. Time to move on. You will end up ahead any way.


----------



## 3putt

Nucking Futs said:


> Any storage operator that would let you rent a unit in someone else name without a power of attorney authorizing you to sign a contract for that person is a fool who deserves the financial pain he's eventually going to feel.


All you do is put it your name, buy your own lock, pay for one month, and give the key to the other person. It's up to them what to do the contents from that point forward.

It's simple.

And Ele, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. I'm saying that this would be a good opportunity to lay some extra groundwork for disproving a need for the TRO to begin with.


----------



## PBear

3putt said:


> All you do is put it your name, buy your own lock, pay for one month, and give the key to the other person. It's up to them what to do the contents from that point forward.
> 
> It's simple.
> 
> And Ele, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. I'm saying that this would be a good opportunity to lay some extra groundwork for disproving a need for the TRO to begin with.


So long as you don't mind the unpaid bill showing up on your credit report, I guess... You know, after nobody bothers to cancel the account with the storage company...

C


----------



## 3putt

PBear said:


> So long as you don't mind the unpaid bill showing up on your credit report, I guess... You know, after nobody bothers to cancel the account with the storage company...
> 
> C


Storage places don't typically report to a credit agency as far as I know. But it won't matter anyway. She wants her table and whatever. She'll go and get it, or pay to extend the rental. 

I've yet to see the scenario you guys are describing actually happen.


----------



## Chaparral

I would make her pick up the stuff in person and record it. No way I would let her om on my property or her either. That way they can't lie again and say this or that was not on the porch or was in bad condition or stolen.

You are dealing with two snakes, act like it.


----------



## Foghorn

dadof2 said:


> STBX is bringing me the kids on Sunday and I am taking them on vacation for a week. I am trying to think of something to say when she leaves along the lines of "Have fun babysitting your new family this week, your old family will be enjoying our vacation without you. BTW your sh!t is in the garage."
> 
> Up until this point I have been civil and non combative, but I want to start putting a few jabs in when I get the chance... What you guys got??


Some good advice above. GROUNDPOUNDER's camera idea made me laugh out loud.

But I would advise the following. Disinterest. Simple focus on the kids. Act happy. She's not important, she's almost beneath your notice. Wave a hand towards the back porch, "Oh, your stuff is out there." Like it's nothing at all to you if she gets it, leaves it, or throws it away. 

Then continue loading the kids. Don't make much eye contact. She's beneath your notice. You are _indifferent_.

You may be seething inside, but think about this - people like her thrive on conflict. Creating chaos is their lifeblood, it's how they know they are important. Nothing will rankle her more than treating her like she's _irrelevant_. 

Give it some consideration. I think it will pi$$ her off more than a snappy comeback.


----------



## dadof2

Foghorn said:


> Some good advice above. GROUNDPOUNDER's camera idea made me laugh out loud.
> 
> But I would advise the following. Disinterest. Simple focus on the kids. Act happy. She's not important, she's almost beneath your notice. Wave a hand towards the back porch, "Oh, your stuff is out there." Like it's nothing at all to you if she gets it, leaves it, or throws it away.
> 
> Then continue loading the kids. Don't make much eye contact. She's beneath your notice. You are _indifferent_.
> 
> You may be seething inside, but think about this - people like her thrive on conflict. Creating chaos is their lifeblood, it's how they know they are important. Nothing will rankle her more than treating her like she's _irrelevant_.
> 
> Give it some consideration. I think it will pi$$ her off more than a snappy comeback.


I agree with being indifferent, it just seems like I have been doing that for months with no real effect. Not that I am trying to get anything out of her, but she seems so far gone that no matter how I act it won't make much difference anyway. That's why I am considering to start making snarky comments to her. But maybe that's what she wants, to start having conflict. I don't know. I would really just like to simply say, "I hope whatever freedom she has now is worth not seeing your children everyday."

As far as her property goes, I think I may rent a storage unit for a month or 2 and tell her where her stuff is. The more I think about it, she would have to get someone with a truck (OM) to get her furniture and she would not be in a hurry to get it. If I get it out of my house and into storage then its not my problem anymore.


----------



## Hicks

If you make snarky comments, this will feed her rationalization. Thus instead of making her feel bad, you will make her feel good.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

So what is the next big trip going to be?


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> I agree with being indifferent, it just seems like I have been doing that for months with no real effect. Not that I am trying to get anything out of her, but she seems so far gone that no matter how I act it won't make much difference anyway. That's why I am considering to start making snarky comments to her. But maybe that's what she wants, to start having conflict. I don't know. I would really just like to simply say, "I hope whatever freedom she has now is worth not seeing your children everyday."
> 
> As far as her property goes, I think I may rent a storage unit for a month or 2 and tell her where her stuff is. The more I think about it, she would have to get someone with a truck (OM) to get her furniture and she would not be in a hurry to get it. If I get it out of my house and into storage then its not my problem anymore.


Ignore her. Seriously. Shake the dust from your sandals and walk away. 

One cold hard fact you need to learn and absorb is that there are some cheaters, your wife included, who will never show any remorse for destroying their marriages. Your wife has most likely rationalized every move she has made throughout the last year of your marriage. She has created an imaginary world in her mind where you are the villain who drove her into another mans arms. 

Don't expect her to apologize ever. Don't spend your life dwelling on when you will get one, because you probably won't. That's just the cold hard truth.


----------



## azteca1986

Foghorn said:


> But I would advise the following. Disinterest. Simple focus on the kids. Act happy. She's not important, she's almost beneath your notice. Wave a hand towards the back porch, "Oh, your stuff is out there." Like it's nothing at all to you if she gets it, leaves it, or throws it away.
> 
> Then continue loading the kids. Don't make much eye contact. She's beneath your notice. You are _indifferent_.


All true. You have to focus on your priorities. Her despicable actions mean that she is no longer one. Do not waste a second of the precious time you have with your children. Once she has safely delivered your kids to your care don't let her intrude on your holiday.

Another reason to avoid trying to find a snappy retort is that it's futile. She currently wrapped up tight in an armour of justification that you have no chance of piercing. In the midst of her affair she has convinced herself that what she's doing is right. Don't waste your breath on her.

Focus on the important things in your life, like having a wonderful trip with your kids.


----------



## happyman64

ANd plan on having a new hot GF by your side when you take the kids on vacation next year.

Plan for the future!


----------



## Chaparral

Are you working out. The best feel good chemicals are the ones from weight lifting. It takes concentration and helps alleviate bad moods and stress.


----------



## dadof2

bandit.45 said:


> Ignore her. Seriously. Shake the dust from your sandals and walk away.
> 
> One cold hard fact you need to learn and absorb is that there are some cheaters, your wife included, who will never show any remorse for destroying their marriages. Your wife has most likely rationalized every move she has made throughout the last year of your marriage. She has created an imaginary world in her mind where you are the villain who drove her into another mans arms.
> 
> Don't expect her to apologize ever. Don't spend your life dwelling on when you will get one, because you probably won't. That's just the cold hard truth.


I just got off of the phone with my attorney. She said basically we have 3 options: 

We can amend our petition to go for an "at fault" divorce, which would allow us to put her and OM on the stand. This would be the most difficult position to take because I don't have enough proof for adultery. 

We could depose her and OM on her denials of their meetings on the request for admissions. This would make her be accountable and we have solid proof of her lying about her whereabouts on certain dates. The penalty would be a civil fine and contempt of court. I would like to hold her accountable, and this seems like a good compromise.

The third option is to simply drop everything and walk away. Work on a community settlement, continue with our custody arrangement and wait on day 365 for the divorce to be final. This is the most logical choice, but I just have to wrap my head around the fact that it is final. I know the sooner I can do that, the sooner I will begin to move on. But it is hard because it seems like through all of this process I have had a flicker of hope that this could be reconciled. Simply calling her attorney and saying we aren't going to push any further and we are ready to get a fair settlement so I can move on with my life. I'm sure this would actually be the biggest shock to STBX. She seems to expect me to fight and she seems to want me to be the one pushing things.

I have an appointment with my therapist tomorrow afternoon, and I plan to discuss these options with her. I would also like to get the opinions of the board on this.

BTW Tomorrow is our 5th wedding anniversary, lol


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> I just got off of the phone with my attorney. She said basically we have 3 options:
> 
> We can amend our petition to go for an "at fault" divorce, which would allow us to put her and OM on the stand. This would be the most difficult position to take because I don't have enough proof for adultery.
> 
> We could depose her and OM on her denials of their meetings on the request for admissions. This would make her be accountable and we have solid proof of her lying about her whereabouts on certain dates. The penalty would be a civil fine and contempt of court. I would like to hold her accountable, and this seems like a good compromise.
> 
> The third option is to simply drop everything and walk away. Work on a community settlement, continue with our custody arrangement and wait on day 365 for the divorce to be final. This is the most logical choice, but I just have to wrap my head around the fact that it is final. I know the sooner I can do that, the sooner I will begin to move on. But it is hard because it seems like through all of this process I have had a flicker of hope that this could be reconciled. Simply calling her attorney and saying we aren't going to push any further and we are ready to get a fair settlement so I can move on with my life. I'm sure this would actually be the biggest shock to STBX. She seems to expect me to fight and she seems to want me to be the one pushing things.
> 
> I have an appointment with my therapist tomorrow afternoon, and I plan to discuss these options with her. I would also like to get the opinions of the board on this.


I'd go w/ the compromise approach, especially if it gets you to your final destination all the more quickly.

Also, any thoughts on this...?



GusPolinski said:


> Exactly. Hell, I'd have one there and rolling when she dropped the kids off. I'd then proceed to have a very cordial interaction w/ her... with the camera capturing all of it.
> 
> Or even better -- have the PI on standby to record the encounter.


^This might go a looooong way in terms of helping to get the RO lifted.



dadof2 said:


> BTW Tomorrow is our 5th wedding anniversary, lol


Damn man. Sorry to hear that. Buy hey... better to get out now instead of 20 years from now, right?


----------



## PBear

In the end, how will the first two options be any different than the last option? And I'm asking that in all seriousness. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

I like Option 2.

She needs consequences, not surprises.

And just the fact that you get to put both those misfits on the stand for questioning is worth the extra $$$ IMO.

Now if you could just figure out how to get their testimony over to the school board for them to see it would be priceless......


----------



## GusPolinski

happyman64 said:


> I like Option 2.
> 
> She needs consequences, not surprises.
> 
> And just the fact that you get to put both those misfits on the stand for questioning is worth the extra $$$ IMO.
> 
> *Now if you could just figure out how to get their testimony over to the school board for them to see it would be priceless......*


Agreed. And honestly, if I didn't get any sort of satisfaction from the school board itself, I'd probably bring the entire matter up in a public school board meeting. I'd start attending them in order to gauge regular attendance, wait for a hot-button issue to draw in a large crowd, walk up to the podium as if you're prepared to talk about another matter, and then just blindside everyone there w/ the sordid details of your WW's and POSOM's affair... an affair bred and fed on school grounds and enabled w/ taxpayer dollars.

Shock and awe? Maybe not, but satisfying nonetheless.


----------



## dadof2

As far as recording the dropoff, she has admitted to dropping them off to me with no repercussions. Since we filed our response though, she has not come to the house to drop the children off. We now meet at a neutral site.

The only downside to a deposition would be that her side would more than likely depose me. I am not sure what they could ask, but I'm sure they would go for an abuse angle. No matter what I have done to her, nothing can be proven. She has flat out lied on her request for admissions, so I don't see how me denying any claims they make against me can be that big of a deal. She lied on things that we can prove, if they want to depose me about physically abusing her, then it is my word against hers.

In the end, all 3 options will get the same result. That is a good way to look at it. But I would like to hold her accountable, but she also has lied about everything up until this point, so why should I expect anything different. My lawyer said we could simply call her attorney, tell him we are not going to pursue the relationship with OM any further, and that all I want is an apology from STBX. But I seriously doubt she would apologize, and it would be hollow anyway. 

Man this is tough stuff!


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> I like Option 2.
> 
> She needs consequences, not surprises.
> 
> And just the fact that you get to put both those misfits on the stand for questioning is worth the extra $$$ IMO.
> 
> Now if you could just figure out how to get their testimony over to the school board for them to see it would be priceless......


If you want to hold them accountable, then put them on the stand.
If you to say eff it and get it over with and save $$$ then just have the two lawyers write up an agreement.
Whatever it's your call.


----------



## happyman64

Bandit is right.

You will never get a true apology.

That is why you need to have both of them deposed. Prove she is a liar.

Get the RO dropped.

I would get satisfaction from Option 2? But will you?

In the end you are going to get 50/50.

She is going to suck with coparenting in the future.


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> Bandit is right.
> 
> You will never get a true apology.
> 
> That is why you need to have both of them deposed. Prove she is a liar.
> 
> Get the RO dropped.
> 
> I would get satisfaction from Option 2? But will you?
> 
> In the end you are going to get 50/50.
> 
> She is going to suck with coparenting in the future.


:iagree:
If things get "nasty" make sure to bring up the prescription and alcohol abuse.
You don't want her driving the kids around high and drunk.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

This might be tough medicine, but you may want to hold on to your PI a bit longer. Maybe your WW has distanced herself from POSOM, but that's not likely. Maybe you need to know she is with OM all out to know you need to move on.


----------



## PBear

If the end result will be the same in all cases, only you can decide if the financial cost and increased tension in your co-parenting relationship is worth the retribution. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, and I'd surely understand you wanting to do it. But there is a cost to you. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dadof2

PBear said:


> If the end result will be the same in all cases, only you can decide if the financial cost and *increased tension in your co-parenting relationship* is worth the retribution. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, and I'd surely understand you wanting to do it. But there is a cost to you.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is what I'm worried about. But I don't want to just roll over and let her "win" just so she won't make things hard during co parenting.

That is the only reason I am not ready to just stop pushing things. The fact that she will take that as a victory and further feed her justification of wanting the divorce. But I need to realize that her and her family's opinions on the subject no longer matter. But I am still seeking some sort of validation that I am not the wrong party here.


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> In the end, all 3 options will get the same result. That is a good way to look at it. But *I would like to hold her accountable*


dad, two things. First, coming from one of the 'old geezers' around here, let me give you some perspective. If I were to pull together ALL the betrayed spouses I've come across in the last ten years I've been doing this, and look at the one recurring theme they all felt, it would be this: I want to have the last say, I want them to feel what I felt, I want them to admit what they did, I want to have a bit of control over this out-of-control mess. Which is what you're saying above. And the one recurring ANSWER to all that is...no it won't happen and once you are out of the picture for a year, three years, ten years, you'll wonder why you gave that need - for accountability or control - so much power over you. In a few years, you'll never even speak to her again, she will matter THAT LITTLE to you. You'll have moved on and found a MUCH better partner who makes you wonder what you ever saw in your stbx. 

And then you'll wonder why you wasted so much lawyer money just trying to get this crazy worthless woman to admit what she did, when she doesn't even matter to you any more.

Second, did I get this right - you've only been married five years?! Run! This is just a blip in a long long life you're going to live, a learning curve, an eye opener to help you create a FUTURE relationship that's so airtight and loving and fulfilling that you may even be grateful your stbx taught you to expect better.


----------



## sandc

I'm going to say go for option C. If that's what she least expects then that's what you should do. I'm sorry man but she's done. Let her go. She's not walking off into some happily ever after thing. She's moving into a trailer. Go find your happily ever after. 

You want her to have repercussions? The biggest repercussion you could give her is fall out of love. Stop caring. Seriously. The opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy. Move toward apathy. That will hurt her more than anything.

Start thinking about the person you want in your life and start making plans to find her.


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> That is what I'm worried about. But I don't want to just roll over and let her "win" just so she won't make things hard during co parenting.


She isn't going to win. She's going to lose because she'll see YOU win by going out and having the life you should have had, had she been a decent person. By meeting better women than her and having so much fun that it never even occurs to you to look back at her and remember that you used to be married to her. THAT is winning. And she'll recognize it. Trust me.



dadof2 said:


> But I am still seeking some sort of validation that I am not the wrong party here.


That's what therapy is for.


----------



## sandc

turnera said:


> dad, two things. First, coming from one of the 'old geezers' around here, let me give you some perspective. If I were to pull together ALL the betrayed spouses I've come across in the last ten years I've been doing this, and look at the one recurring theme they all felt, it would be this: I want to have the last say, I want them to feel what I felt, I want them to admit what they did, I want to have a bit of control over this out-of-control mess. Which is what you're saying above. And the one recurring ANSWER to all that is...no it won't happen and once you are out of the picture for a year, three years, ten years, you'll wonder why you gave that need - for accountability or control - so much power over you. In a few years, you'll never even speak to her again, she will matter THAT LITTLE to you. You'll have moved on and found a MUCH better partner who makes you wonder what you ever saw in your stbx.
> 
> And then you'll wonder why you wasted so much lawyer money just trying to get this crazy worthless woman to admit what she did, when she doesn't even matter to you any more.
> 
> Second, did I get this right - you've only been married five years?! Run! This is just a blip in a long long life you're going to live, a learning curve, an eye opener to help you create a FUTURE relationship that's so airtight and loving and fulfilling that you may even be grateful your stbx taught you to expect better.



Masterful.


----------



## helolover

dadof2 said:


> I agree with being indifferent, it just seems like I have been doing that for months with no real effect. Not that I am trying to get anything out of her, but she seems so far gone that no matter how I act it won't make much difference anyway. That's why I am considering to start making snarky comments to her. But maybe that's what she wants, to start having conflict. I don't know. I would really just like to simply say, "I hope whatever freedom she has now is worth not seeing your children everyday."
> 
> As far as her property goes, I think I may rent a storage unit for a month or 2 and tell her where her stuff is. The more I think about it, she would have to get someone with a truck (OM) to get her furniture and she would not be in a hurry to get it. If I get it out of my house and into storage then its not my problem anymore.



If you really feel like she's a BPDr, then engaging her in extraneous conversation or taking emotional jabs (even subtly) is going to backfire on you. It actually makes you look weak. I understand that you're angry and hurt. You want to be indifferent. Pretend, DO2. Pretend. 

Cool, indifferent, factual. She lost you. You are the prize. She doesn't get to live rent free in your head.


----------



## helolover

turnera said:


> dad, two things. First, coming from one of the 'old geezers' around here, let me give you some perspective. If I were to pull together ALL the betrayed spouses I've come across in the last ten years I've been doing this, and look at the one recurring theme they all felt, it would be this: I want to have the last say, I want them to feel what I felt, I want them to admit what they did, I want to have a bit of control over this out-of-control mess. Which is what you're saying above. And the one recurring ANSWER to all that is...no it won't happen and once you are out of the picture for a year, three years, ten years, you'll wonder why you gave that need - for accountability or control - so much power over you. In a few years, you'll never even speak to her again, she will matter THAT LITTLE to you. You'll have moved on and found a MUCH better partner who makes you wonder what you ever saw in your stbx.
> 
> And then you'll wonder why you wasted so much lawyer money just trying to get this crazy worthless woman to admit what she did, when she doesn't even matter to you any more.
> 
> Second, did I get this right - you've only been married five years?! Run! This is just a blip in a long long life you're going to live, a learning curve, an eye opener to help you create a FUTURE relationship that's so airtight and loving and fulfilling that you may even be grateful your stbx taught you to expect better.


If I could click "like" 1 million times for this post, I would.


----------



## harrybrown

You have been thru hell and are still there. 

It is hard to see thru the pain and betrayal. Life should be fair.

But it is not fair and you will not get the justice you deserve from the court system.

I am glad that you will not be married to your crazy ex for 40 years, just the five. 

Keep working on you and your self-esteem. And your attorney should help you make the best choice. 

I do hope soon that you can start to heal from your STBX. Crazy that she fooled you into thinking that she ever loved you or was she was a worthwhile marriage partner.

Either that or she made major evil changes.


----------



## badmemory

turnera said:


> dad, two things. First, coming from one of the 'old geezers' around here, let me give you some perspective. If I were to pull together ALL the betrayed spouses I've come across in the last ten years I've been doing this, and look at the one recurring theme they all felt, it would be this: I want to have the last say, I want them to feel what I felt, I want them to admit what they did, I want to have a bit of control over this out-of-control mess. Which is what you're saying above. And the one recurring ANSWER to all that is...no it won't happen and once you are out of the picture for a year, three years, ten years, you'll wonder why you gave that need - for accountability or control - so much power over you. In a few years, you'll never even speak to her again, she will matter THAT LITTLE to you. You'll have moved on and found a MUCH better partner who makes you wonder what you ever saw in your stbx.
> 
> And then you'll wonder why you wasted so much lawyer money just trying to get this crazy worthless woman to admit what she did, when she doesn't even matter to you any more.
> 
> Second, did I get this right - you've only been married five years?! Run! This is just a blip in a long long life you're going to live, a learning curve, an eye opener to help you create a FUTURE relationship that's so airtight and loving and fulfilling that you may even be grateful your stbx taught you to expect better.


Great post turnera. I wonder if Wranglerman would have considered that advice.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



badmemory said:


> Great post turnera. I wounder if Wranglerman would have considered that advice.


I just popped popcorn and gave you your flame proof suit. Now I'm going to sit back and watch the show...


----------



## warlock07

badmemory said:


> Great post turnera. I wounder if Wranglerman would have considered that advice.


he had no kids with her.


----------



## honcho

You will get option three by doing option two. My experience so far has the only movement forward in divorce has been threatening to depose. It is one thing making wild claims to friends and family, it is quite another doing under oath. Your attorney has much more latitude under deposition than a full blown court hearing to ask questions also. 

Her attorney wont depose you, let face it he knows what is going on here and he doesnt really want your side of the story under oath. My atty informed the opposing atty numberous times I would welcome depostion that I couldnt wait for the facts to be brought to light in the case. 

Its all a game of poker and who will call whos bluff. She will bend and negotiate and want the easy deal. 




dadof2 said:


> As far as recording the dropoff, she has admitted to dropping them off to me with no repercussions. Since we filed our response though, she has not come to the house to drop the children off. We now meet at a neutral site.
> 
> The only downside to a deposition would be that her side would more than likely depose me. I am not sure what they could ask, but I'm sure they would go for an abuse angle. No matter what I have done to her, nothing can be proven. She has flat out lied on her request for admissions, so I don't see how me denying any claims they make against me can be that big of a deal. She lied on things that we can prove, if they want to depose me about physically abusing her, then it is my word against hers.
> 
> In the end, all 3 options will get the same result. That is a good way to look at it. But I would like to hold her accountable, but she also has lied about everything up until this point, so why should I expect anything different. My lawyer said we could simply call her attorney, tell him we are not going to pursue the relationship with OM any further, and that all I want is an apology from STBX. But I seriously doubt she would apologize, and it would be hollow anyway.
> 
> Man this is tough stuff!


----------



## badmemory

warlock07 said:


> he had no kids with her.


I'm not advocating either view Warlock. Just a tongue in cheek observation.


----------



## dadof2

honcho said:


> You will get option three by doing option two. My experience so far has the only movement forward in divorce has been threatening to depose. It is one thing making wild claims to friends and family, it is quite another doing under oath. Your attorney has much more latitude under deposition than a full blown court hearing to ask questions also.
> 
> Her attorney wont depose you, let face it he knows what is going on here and he doesnt really want your side of the story under oath. My atty informed the opposing atty numberous times I would welcome depostion that I couldnt wait for the facts to be brought to light in the case.
> 
> Its all a game of poker and who will call whos bluff. She will bend and negotiate and want the easy deal.


I would think just the threat of deposition may make her more agreeable, but she has shown a little more resolve than I originally thought. She has answered all of our questions (mostly lies) and has not caused any delays yet. I could tell from out meeting on Monday that she had already come up with the story that she took the kids to his house during the early summer in order to "see if she could handle babysitting his 2 along with our two." She really is a piece of work and can come up with some great stories. I'm sure she would justify being at his house so much with stories along that line.

That's why part of me just wants to say screw it and just play let's make a deal. But maybe we can offer a deal for community property and if she balks then tell her we will depose her. Not sure how much water that threat carries, because I thought the request for admissions would scare her straight but she just lied like a rug and kept right on going.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

dadof2 said:


> I would think just the threat of deposition may make her more agreeable, but she has shown a little more resolve than I originally thought. She has answered all of our questions (mostly lies) and has not caused any delays yet. I could tell from out meeting on Monday that she had already come up with the story that she took the kids to his house during the early summer in order to "see if she could handle babysitting his 2 along with our two." She really is a piece of work and can come up with some great stories. I'm sure she would justify being at his house so much with stories along that line.
> 
> That's why part of me just wants to say screw it and just play let's make a deal. But maybe we can offer a deal for community property and if she balks then tell her we will depose her. Not sure how much water that threat carries, because I thought the request for admissions would scare her straight but she just lied like a rug and kept right on going.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I vote for the deposition. If you can prove she lied in her response it gives you leverage, and I'm a big fan of leverage. I LOVE leverage! 

That being said, my position doesn't cost me a penny so if it's a financial issue you gotta do what you gotta do.


----------



## honcho

Request for admissions does not have the same effect as deposition. Admissions it is easy to lie or just give great generalities, she has time to come up with answers and her lawyer coaches on what to write. Most people just don’t take is seriously especially when it is done so early in your case.

Deposition she wont know the questions, your attorney can ask anything really, atty spots a weakness or flaw in the story they can start chasing it. A court reporter is there. They days leading up do deposition will create stress for her because she really wont know what evidence you may or may not have to blow up one of her stories. 

Lawyers like to waste time and your money. This is what they do best. Usually what happens is a couple days before deposition her lawyer will call yours and offer instead of doing the deposition maybe the time would be better served doing some negotiating or they make an offer in the name of “being amicable”

I have played the deposition game 3 times in my mess and each time this has been the ONLY way I could ever her team stbx to even make an offer or negotiate.


----------



## GusPolinski

Nucking Futs said:


> I vote for the deposition. If you can prove she lied in her response it gives you leverage, and I'm a big fan of leverage. I LOVE leverage!
> 
> That being said, my position doesn't cost me a penny so if it's a financial issue you gotta do what you gotta do.


Leverage is awesome, and it's the precise reason why parents give their kids an allowance -- it is given in exchange for compliance w/ certain behavioral expectations (satisfactory completion of chores, obeying instructions, getting good grades in school, etc) and -- more importantly -- _*it can be taken away when those expectations are not met*_.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

GusPolinski said:


> Leverage is awesome, and it's the precise reason why parents give their kids an allowance -- it is given in exchange for compliance w/ certain behavioral expectations (satisfactory completion of chores, obeying instructions, getting good grades in school, etc) and -- more importantly -- _*it can be taken away when those expectations are not met*_.


Its also a great skill to learn how to not let someone leverage YOU. 

Staying personally deleveraged this past year was my ace in the hole....


----------



## tom67

honcho said:


> Request for admissions does not have the same effect as deposition. Admissions it is easy to lie or just give great generalities, she has time to come up with answers and her lawyer coaches on what to write. Most people just don’t take is seriously especially when it is done so early in your case.
> 
> Deposition she wont know the questions, your attorney can ask anything really, atty spots a weakness or flaw in the story they can start chasing it. A court reporter is there. They days leading up do deposition will create stress for her because she really wont know what evidence you may or may not have to blow up one of her stories.
> 
> Lawyers like to waste time and your money. This is what they do best. Usually what happens is a couple days before deposition her lawyer will call yours and offer instead of doing the deposition maybe the time would be better served doing some negotiating or they make an offer in the name of “being amicable”
> 
> I have played the deposition game 3 times in my mess and each time this has been the ONLY way I could ever her team stbx to even make an offer or negotiate.


Yes billable hours are not your friend.


----------



## SF-FAN

honcho said:


> Request for admissions does not have the same effect as deposition. Admissions it is easy to lie or just give great generalities, she has time to come up with answers and her lawyer coaches on what to write. Most people just don’t take is seriously especially when it is done so early in your case.
> 
> Deposition she wont know the questions, your attorney can ask anything really, atty spots a weakness or flaw in the story they can start chasing it. A court reporter is there. They days leading up do deposition will create stress for her because she really wont know what evidence you may or may not have to blow up one of her stories.
> 
> Lawyers like to waste time and your money. This is what they do best. Usually what happens is a couple days before deposition her lawyer will call yours and offer instead of doing the deposition maybe the time would be better served doing some negotiating or they make an offer in the name of “being amicable”
> 
> I have played the deposition game 3 times in my mess and each time this has been the ONLY way I could ever her team stbx to even make an offer or negotiate.


I agree, Request for Admission are answered by the attorney and the client is allowed to review and change but rarely ever changed. I work for an attorney and am in law school, trust me Request for Admission are a waste of time. Depositions are more stressful for the deponent because it's in person, however, her attorney will coach her on what to answer and how to answer and if they don't like a question, her attorney will object. 

To get her to squirm you'd need some cold hard facts showing infidelity. My WW is extremely afraid of me subpoenaing her phone records because it will show overwhelming proof of the A. She does not want to go to court because she doesn't want her A on display.


----------



## happy as a clam

For someone who has never been through a deposition (I'm assuming she hasn't), it can be a very rattling experience. First of all, they are done *under oath* so they carry a risk of perjury. That alone will psych her out...

Plus, her lawyer will likely spend hours preparing her for it, and this will rack up her legal bill 

I say go for the deposition.


----------



## tom67

happy as a clam said:


> For someone who has never been through a deposition (I'm assuming she hasn't), it can be a very rattling experience. First of all, they are done *under oath* so they carry a risk of perjury. That alone will psych her out...
> 
> Plus, her lawyer will likely spend hours preparing her for it, and this will rack up her legal bill
> 
> I say go for the deposition.


:iagree:
Especially if you video tape it.
Then your lawyer later in court can grill her again because he will have the transcript of the dep and if she lies well...:lol:
It will be an eye opener.


----------



## tryingpatience

sandc said:


> I'm going to say go for option C. If that's what she least expects then that's what you should do. I'm sorry man but she's done. Let her go. She's not walking off into some happily ever after thing. She's moving into a trailer. Go find your happily ever after.
> 
> You want her to have repercussions? The biggest repercussion you could give her is fall out of love. Stop caring. Seriously. The opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy. Move toward apathy. That will hurt her more than anything.
> 
> Start thinking about the person you want in your life and start making plans to find her.


I'd like to see you walk away from this as well. But I understand if you want to go with one of the other options.

Not sure about the legal side of things for you but when I drafted the separation agreement with my stbxw I had her agree that we've already been separated for a year. That way the divorce could come sooner. I took the path she least expected. I didn't get the satisfaction that I wanted but I think it's helped my healing process.

Hope today isn't a bad day for you, it shouldn't be because you are moving forward. After speaking with many other BS, you won't get that vindication you want. It won't come right away. It comes later when you don't give a sh*t any longer. Try to get to apathy. Want to see you get through this!


----------



## dadof2

tryingpatience said:


> I'd like to see you walk away from this as well. But I understand if you want to go with one of the other options.
> 
> Not sure about the legal side of things for you but when I drafted the separation agreement with my stbxw I had her agree that we've already been separated for a year. That way the divorce could come sooner. I took the path she least expected. I didn't get the satisfaction that I wanted but I think it's helped my healing process.
> 
> Hope today isn't a bad day for you, it shouldn't be because you are moving forward. After speaking with many other BS, you won't get that vindication you want. It won't come right away. It comes later when you don't give a sh*t any longer. Try to get to apathy. Want to see you get through this!


I talked with my lawyer and PI the last few days. My lawyer is going to prepare a consent agreement listing the terms I would like to see in both the divorce/custody agreement as well as in community property. My lawyer is going to indicate to hers that I know she is having an affair but I realize that it's not worth fighting for anymore. I am making her a very fair offer and if she doesn't take it then we will air her dirty laundry in court. If she takes the offer then I will walk away and try to continue the healing process. I don't expect her to take the full offer, but I am going out of my way to make it more than fair to her.

I don't know why but my mind has really been giving me curveballs the last couple of days. Maybe it is because I have made this decision to not keep searching for a way to make her feel remorse. I realize she is not remorseful and its really over. I have been having a lot of bad mind movies lately and that hasn't happened for months. I guess with me taking the kids on vacation next week and her having a whole week with OM is doing that to me.


----------



## PBear

dadof2 said:


> I talked with my lawyer and PI the last few days. My lawyer is going to prepare a consent agreement listing the terms I would like to see in both the divorce/custody agreement as well as in community property. My lawyer is going to indicate to hers that I know she is having an affair but I realize that it's not worth fighting for anymore. I am making her a very fair offer and if she doesn't take it then we will air her dirty laundry in court. If she takes the offer then I will walk away and try to continue the healing process. I don't expect her to take the full offer, but I am going out of my way to make it more than fair to her.
> 
> I don't know why but my mind has really been giving me curveballs the last couple of days. Maybe it is because I have made this decision to not keep searching for a way to make her feel remorse. I realize she is not remorseful and its really over. I have been having a lot of bad mind movies lately and that hasn't happened for months. I guess with me taking the kids on vacation next week and her having a whole week with OM is doing that to me.


I know it's easier said than done, but try to focus on the fun you'll have with your kids, rather than her. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dadof2

PBear said:


> I know it's easier said than done, but try to focus on the fun you'll have with your kids, rather than her.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, I am working on it. I want to enjoy my vacation with the children and not let STBX get me down while I should be having a good time. I'm gonna do my best!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> Thanks, I am working on it. I want to enjoy my vacation with the children and not let STBX get me down while I should be having a good time. I'm gonna do my best!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good!!!
Do it.:smthumbup:


----------



## weightlifter

The PI has what you need if it goes nuclear?


----------



## workindad

OP just a thought. Why not make an offer that is fair to her. No need for more than fair especially if you expect her to attempt to negotiate beyond that. Maybe she is so wrapped in bliss from posom that she will agree to a good deal for you. 

That worked for me. Although my xWW now b!tches about not getting a better deal. I would tell you that it breaks my heart to hear her say that but it doesn't. It just annoys me. 

Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## toonaive

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I'll start this of by saying, I'm an a$$hole, but here's what I would do.
> 
> Go buy one of those fake surveillance cameras. The kind that have a red light on, flashing, like they're real. Cost about $10 at radio shack.
> 
> Set it up in a winow facing the back porch. Put the table, chairs, etc. under this window. Then tape a note under the camera, on the inside of the window(facing out) saying.
> 
> "SMILE :0)"
> 
> If she was ballsy enough to have the OM help her pick up her stuff, she will think that you have the video on file. I'm willing to bet her first call will be to her lawyer, her next will be to you. She'd try to explain why he was there.
> 
> I wouldn't say a word back to her about it if she called me. I'd only ask if she picked everything up. Once she answered me about it, I'd say that's all I needed to know. The I'd hang up.
> 
> She would be squirming for days if she thought that there was a video of her showing up at her stbxh's house to pick up her crap with the guy she cheated on him with. AND at the time, she had a RO on her Husband for her and the OM's safety.
> 
> Like I said, I'm an a$$hole, but that's the way I would do it.
> 
> Ahhh, who am I trying to kid. I'd have a real camera there. I'd want to see the look on her face if she had brought numbnuts with her and then realized that I was recording. It'd be worth it.


I guess that would make me an ******* also. I installed a security system that monitors and records all entrance ways, and common areas in my house. Once she saw those, my stbxw stopped coming around when I was at work to look for things she could "borrow".


----------



## turnera

My H is in the industry, and we don't have cameras hooked up. We just have one hanging at each entry door so you can see it from outside, plugged in so you can see the red light.


----------



## dadof2

I haven't posted in a while, I was on vacation last week and then have been catching up at work this week.

Vacation with kids was great, I will say I had a few rough moments at the amusement parks seeing young kids with their mom and dad having a good time in the park. Made me sad and angry at the same time to know that STBX has taken that from me. But once I got past that the first day, we really had a blast. My oldest was able to ride quite a few rollercoasters with me, and he loved it. Spending all day with them for a week reminded me how great it was when that was the norm.

STBX was in contact more often during our vacation than she ever has been since this all started. Texting, calling, even Facetime with kids. My mom was with me so I let her handle the Facetime while I went to the fitness center. I didn't want to see her and have those triggers ruin my vacation. She knew the kids were ok, I think she was just finding reasons to get in touch. 

When I picked up the children the morning of leaving to start the vacation, I did tell STBX how much I have been hurt by her actions the last few months and that I am no longer going to fight her on every little thing of the divorce and I am ready to move on with my life. She didn't say anything, just sorta shook her head and looked at the ground. I also told her that all of her remaining belongings were in the garage and she could get them while I was away.

We got back in town on Friday and I was supposed to meet STBX for the child swap that Sunday. We have been swapping at a gas station in town, and she told me that she went to a meeting while we were gone at our child's school. Our oldest is starting school this year and she had some paperwork that we both needed to sign. I suggested that we meet at a local restaurant for breakfast, and she seemed very eager to do that. We met Sunday morning, and she was dressed to the nines. She looked great, I will admit it. We talked about school, vacation, etc. no relationship talk. I stayed cool and distant, while she was acting like her old self, telling jokes, laughing, etc. She asked at the end if I would like to do this again and I said "I don't know, we'll see how it goes." We parted ways and she left with the kids. 30 mins later she texted me saying thanks for breakfast, really enjoyed it. I simply put back "You're welcome"

We haven't had much contact this week at all, but we will both be attending our son's open house tonight at his school. It will be another triggering event, but I am going to do my best to be cordial but emotionless. It seems to be the best way for me to handle it. If I get too emotional she picks up on it very quickly.

I have been proud of myself over these last few months, the NC- kids only- has really helped me out a lot. I can feel myself slowly detaching but there are still days that I cry when I lay down to sleep. These nights are less and less but they usually happen on nights when I don't have the kids and the house is empty. I have been doing a good job of staying busy, especially on weekends when I don't have the kids. This weekend I am heading to my old college town for some golf and a friend's wedding.

I spoke with my therapist before I met STBX to leave on vacation. I told her I wanted to communicate to her that I have been hurt and am ready to move on with my life, but I don't want to look/sound like a doormat. She recommended I go ahead and tell her that, but very briefly and not to start on an emotional sob story. I think I handled it well. STBX took all of her belongings out the garage while I was gone and she hasn't mentioned anything about it since. I had a new couch and dining table delivered the next day, and have been using her closet for some extra storage around the house. I also wired up some speakers on my back porch, something that I had been putting off for quite a while. I enjoy sitting outside in the evening with a cold one and listening to music while the kids play in the yard or I am barbecuing.

Sorry for the long post, I have just had a lot going on. If I were to be honest, part of me hopes she would realize what she has given up and want to start rebuilding. But part of me wants nothing to do with her and to start moving on by myself. Our hearing is coming up in a few weeks, so I expect I will know how to move forward by then. She has been out of the house for over 3 months, and any sort of "I need time" etc. from her just tells me what her real answer is. And that's okay, at least I can start moving on.


----------



## sandc

That's a great update.

So.... she met you for breakfast all dressed up and wants to do it again? It sounds like the reality of the situation is finally getting through to her. You're her security blanket. She doesn't want to lose you. Trouble is she won't realize what she's lost until she sees another woman on your arm. By that time, you won't care. You're making good progress. Keep trying to detach and see her for who she truly is.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Thank god your son doesn't go to school where she teaches.


----------



## SF-FAN

dadof2 said:


> I haven't posted in a while, I was on vacation last week and then have been catching up at work this week.
> 
> Vacation with kids was great, I will say I had a few rough moments at the amusement parks seeing young kids with their mom and dad having a good time in the park. Made me sad and angry at the same time to know that STBX has taken that from me. But once I got past that the first day, we really had a blast. My oldest was able to ride quite a few rollercoasters with me, and he loved it. Spending all day with them for a week reminded me how great it was when that was the norm.
> 
> STBX was in contact more often during our vacation than she ever has been since this all started. Texting, calling, even Facetime with kids. My mom was with me so I let her handle the Facetime while I went to the fitness center. I didn't want to see her and have those triggers ruin my vacation. She knew the kids were ok, I think she was just finding reasons to get in touch.
> 
> When I picked up the children the morning of leaving to start the vacation, I did tell STBX how much I have been hurt by her actions the last few months and that I am no longer going to fight her on every little thing of the divorce and I am ready to move on with my life. She didn't say anything, just sorta shook her head and looked at the ground. I also told her that all of her remaining belongings were in the garage and she could get them while I was away.
> 
> We got back in town on Friday and I was supposed to meet STBX for the child swap that Sunday. We have been swapping at a gas station in town, and she told me that she went to a meeting while we were gone at our child's school. Our oldest is starting school this year and she had some paperwork that we both needed to sign. *I suggested that we meet at a local restaurant for breakfast, and she seemed very eager to do that. We met Sunday morning, and she was dressed to the nines. She looked great, I will admit it. We talked about school, vacation, etc. no relationship talk. I stayed cool and distant, while she was acting like her old self, telling jokes, laughing, etc. She asked at the end if I would like to do this again and I said "I don't know, we'll see how it goes." We parted ways and she left with the kids. 30 mins later she texted me saying thanks for breakfast, really enjoyed it. I simply put back "You're welcome"*
> 
> We haven't had much contact this week at all, but we will both be attending our son's open house tonight at his school. It will be another triggering event, but I am going to do my best to be cordial but emotionless. It seems to be the best way for me to handle it. If I get too emotional she picks up on it very quickly.
> 
> I have been proud of myself over these last few months, the NC- kids only- has really helped me out a lot. I can feel myself slowly detaching but there are still days that I cry when I lay down to sleep. These nights are less and less but they usually happen on nights when I don't have the kids and the house is empty. I have been doing a good job of staying busy, especially on weekends when I don't have the kids. This weekend I am heading to my old college town for some golf and a friend's wedding.
> 
> I spoke with my therapist before I met STBX to leave on vacation. I told her I wanted to communicate to her that I have been hurt and am ready to move on with my life, but I don't want to look/sound like a doormat. She recommended I go ahead and tell her that, but very briefly and not to start on an emotional sob story. I think I handled it well. STBX took all of her belongings out the garage while I was gone and she hasn't mentioned anything about it since. I had a new couch and dining table delivered the next day, and have been using her closet for some extra storage around the house. I also wired up some speakers on my back porch, something that I had been putting off for quite a while. I enjoy sitting outside in the evening with a cold one and listening to music while the kids play in the yard or I am barbecuing.
> 
> Sorry for the long post, I have just had a lot going on. If I were to be honest, part of me hopes she would realize what she has given up and want to start rebuilding. But part of me wants nothing to do with her and to start moving on by myself. Our hearing is coming up in a few weeks, so I expect I will know how to move forward by then. She has been out of the house for over 3 months, and any sort of "I need time" etc. from her just tells me what her real answer is. And that's okay, at least I can start moving on.


It's funny how WWs have these moments where they act like the women we married. My WW does it all the time and though it only revolves around the kids, it does give me a false sense of hope. I always wonder "is she realizing what she did?" "is she turning back into her old self?" but then she turns cold again and reality hits. I'll admit it's nice getting along for the sake of the kids but sometimes it's easier to detach when you hate them.


----------



## warlock07

Danger zone....

60/100

You went on a date with her without even receiving an apology from her. And you sounded too glad to be seeing her, Sets a bad precedent if there is any chance of R.


----------



## warlock07

SF-FAN said:


> It's funny how WWs have these moments where they act like the women we married. My WW does it all the time and though it only revolves around the kids, it does give me a false sense of hope. I always wonder "is she realizing what she did?" "is she turning back into her old self?" but then she turns cold again and reality hits. I'll admit it's nice getting along for the sake of the kids but sometimes it's easier to detach when you hate them.


They are justifying the breakup. I think bandit describes this situation more eloquently. See, now that they are having lunch and breakfasts like friends with her EX and kids, after separating, she ultimately made the right choice even if she hurt people in the process. 

So having lunch like friends is her process of rationalizing her affair. And dadof2 just helped her to.


----------



## dadof2

warlock07 said:


> Danger zone....
> 
> 60/100
> 
> You went on a date with her without even receiving an apology from her. And you sounded too glad to be seeing her, Sets a bad precedent if there is any chance of R.


I agree with what you are saying. I don't want to fall into the trap of being there when she needs me but her still living by herself and doing whatever she wants when shes alone. That's not a marriage. If she suggests any more "dates" I am going to tell her that I am not comfortable with that and that we need to discuss some things before this continues. I think that is a safe way to protect myself and not let her put me as Plan B.


----------



## Openminded

Perhaps she realizes her initial decision was a bad one and reality is setting in. Maybe Plan A didn't work out exactly the way she thought it would. Do you feel you can be Plan B? There was a reason she was dressed up and laughing and telling jokes and wants you to pick up the tab for breakfast again soon.

ETA: Just read your last post. Don't back down from that. You ARE Plan B.


----------



## happyman64

Dad

Keeping being you. No sobbing to her. She is not worthy of one of your tears.

Have her parents been in contact with you at all?

HM


----------



## dadof2

Openminded said:


> Perhaps she realizes her initial decision was a bad one and reality is setting in. Maybe Plan A didn't work out exactly the way she thought it would. Do you feel you can be Plan B? There was a reason she was dressed up and laughing and telling jokes and wants you to pick up the tab for breakfast again soon.
> 
> ETA: Just read your last post. Don't back down from that. You ARE Plan B.


Yes I plan to stick to this mindset. I went with her once so that I could say I gave her a "chance" to come clean, and she didn't so that will not happen anymore. She either gets all of me or none of me. Not this highschool bullsh!t about keeping me at arms length and I come running when she needs me. I haven't been like that throughout this whole process and I don't want to start now.


----------



## dadof2

happyman64 said:


> Dad
> 
> Keeping being you. No sobbing to her. She is not worthy of one of your tears.
> 
> *Have her parents been in contact with you at all?*
> 
> HM


It's funny, I have not heard from her parents in over a month. But the morning of my vacation, her mom texted me saying she hopes I have fun with the kids and that they are excited about the vacation. I thought that was kind of odd...


----------



## warlock07

> we need to discuss some things before this continues


Don't tell her this part. This sounds like you are desperate to have her back. 

Let her apologize to what she did. This is something she has to do on her own. Else you will get no where and keep wasting your time running in circles.


Whether her plan A failed or not is none of your business. Your life decisions should not depend on some other person't fickleness


----------



## Yeswecan

dadof2 said:


> I agree with what you are saying. I don't want to fall into the trap of being there when she needs me but her still living by herself and doing whatever she wants when shes alone.



My BIL explained that to his STBXW. The grass cutting, house fixing and problem solving for her is over. That shipped sailed as well as the rest of it. 

It would appear to me she is looking for any glimmer of hope that this could turn around for her. The marriage. Thinking about it, her asking to go out again for breakfast I would have stated, "Sure thing. I'll call you." Never place the call. But, being civil is best for the children involved I guess.

I would think this will hit her like a brick wall when the day of the final D arrives.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

> When I picked up the children the morning of leaving to start the vacation, I did tell STBX how much I have been hurt by her actions the last few months and that I am no longer going to fight her on every little thing of the divorce and I am ready to move on with my life. She didn't say anything, just sorta shook her head and looked at the ground.


I don't think this was such a good idea going in, but you handled it as well as you could have. Instead of telling her how she hurt you, maybe instead tell her how baffled you are that she could be so s2pid and selfish. When she's looking at the ground shaking her head, maybe suggest she go in2 the nearest bathroom and look in the mirror.

Seriously, don't have these kinds of conversations. Rather, show her through your own behavior and smart choices that you are past wanting her back.



> I suggested that we meet at a local restaurant for breakfast, and she seemed very eager to do that. We met Sunday morning, and she was dressed to the nines. She looked great, I will admit it. We talked about school, vacation, etc. no relationship talk. I stayed cool and distant, while she was acting like her old self, telling jokes, laughing, etc. She asked at the end if I would like to do this again and I said "I don't know, we'll see how it goes." We parted ways and she left with the kids. 30 mins later she texted me saying thanks for breakfast, really enjoyed it. I simply put back "You're welcome"


I'm going 2 disagree with your therapist. I would have suggested someplace that couldn't be construed as even remotely romantic for the meeting, maybe someplace noisy and busy like a Starbucks or MacDonald's. And when she asks if you'd like 2 do it again, maybe say "hell no!" Seriously, though, I wouldn't have said "we'll see how it goes" but rather something like "I don't think so."

But I'm saying this from an outsider's perspective of incredulity: She's been boning the OM for 3 months now and you're entertaining even the slightest chance at reconciliation?

-ol' 2long


----------



## Yeswecan

dadof2 said:


> It's funny, I have not heard from her parents in over a month. But the morning of my vacation, her mom texted me saying she hopes I have fun with the kids and that they are excited about the vacation. I thought that was kind of odd...


Sometimes I feel parents get embarrassed over what their child has done. Specifically of this magnitude. It reflects on them. I believe they need to come to terms with it. Perhaps they have and realize no matter what the grand kids are part of the family. You are as well. Holidays will not be what they were however there will be holidays with you and the children. Kids need parents and grandparents. You all have a history.


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> Yes I plan to stick to this mindset. I went with her once so that I could say I gave her a "chance" to come clean, and she didn't so that will not happen anymore. She either gets all of me or none of me. Not this highschool bullsh!t about keeping me at arms length and I come running when she needs me. I haven't been like that throughout this whole process and I don't want to start now.


No. She doesn't want you back. She's friend-zoning you. Don't fall for it. 

See, in her farked-up brain, if she can get you to be friends with her, then all the bad things she did...the betrayal, lying, having an RO filed against you, the cheating, taking your children from you....all of these wrongs will be instantly erased and forgotten, and never to be mentioned again. 

In her disturbed mindset, by keeping you on the shelf as a friend, she can proudly go before family and friends and tell them that the divorce is an amicable one, that the two of you realize that you were just not meant to be and that the marriage was a mistake from the beginning, but that you and her will still be good friends who support each other, who will harmoniously co-parent the children, and that you accept the newfound love in her life and agree that he is a better match for her, and that the OM and you have set down swords and are buddies now, and that the children are sighing with joy at the sight of all this harmony and mutual goodwill....and the unicorns are frolicking in the flower laden meadow, while fairies glide and zip over waterfalls bejeweled in dazzling sunlight and rainbows, and.....


Do you need to hear more or would you like to vomit now?


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Do you think you're up for dating anytime soon?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

:rofl:



bandit.45 said:


> No. She doesn't want you back. She's friend-zoning you. Don't fall for it.
> 
> See, in her farked-up brain, if she can get you to be friends with her, then all the bad things she did...the betrayal, lying, having an RO filed against you, the cheating, taking your children from you....all of these wrongs will be instantly erased and forgotten, and never to be mentioned again.
> 
> In her disturbed mindset, by keeping you on the shelf as a friend, she can proudly go before family and friends and tell them that the divorce is an amicable one, that the two of you realize that you were just not meant to be and that the marriage was a mistake from the beginning, but that you and her will still be good friends who support each other, who will harmoniously co-parent the children, and that you accept the newfound love in her life and agree that he is a better match for her, and that the OM and you have set down swords and are buddies now, and that the children are sighing with joy at the sight of all this harmony and mutual goodwill....and the unicorns are frolicking in the flower laden meadow, while fairies glide and zip over waterfalls bejeweled in dazzling sunlight and rainbows, and.....
> 
> 
> Do you need to hear more or would you like to vomit now?


----------



## happyman64

I don't agree with friend zone.

She would have come in sweats or dungarees to friend zone him.

But the point is mute.

He has very young kids. He will have to coparent with her for years to come.

If you had a nice family breakfast together good for you. You are still a family even after her lies, cheating *& restraining order........*

If she calls you for another family outing IMO you should go and enjoy the family time. 

It is good for the kids to see their parents getting along. Period.

Let the divorce ride. 

And do not wait for any apology from her. She has a lot of growing up to do and her parents know it.

I would check in with them regarding the kids. Every once in a while. Especially her Mom. 

It will remind them of what an idiot their own daughter truly is.......

HM


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

I forgot about the restraining order....
Does this mean technically she is the only one who can initiate contact? How do you have breakfast with someone you have a restraining order against?


----------



## LongWalk

It is possible that she is no longer as infatuated with her extra babysitting job, but that is a far cry from desiring you again. She may have wished to see if she could create desire in you eyes, just to reaffirm that she has the magic. Keep the NC except for the kids to protect yourself.


----------



## tom67

CASE_Sensitive said:


> I forgot about the restraining order....
> Does this mean technically she is the only one who can initiate contact? How do you have breakfast with someone you have a restraining order against?


This will be good in court to get it dropped then.


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> It is possible that she is no longer as infatuated with her extra babysitting job, but that is a far cry from desiring you again. She may have wished to see if she could create desire in you eyes, just to reaffirm that she has the magic. Keep the NC except for the kids to protect yourself.


This is a lot of it. 

It's all about control.


----------



## Chaparral

I hope you took a VAR to the meeting.

Actually, this is very odd. Posom would not be happy at all with this breakfast. He should be furious she suggested another one. This puzzles me.


----------



## bandit.45

Chaparral said:


> I hope you took a VAR to the meeting.
> 
> Actually, this is very odd. Posom would not be happy at all with this breakfast. He should be furious she suggested another one. This puzzles me.


WW cheating on the OM with her BS?

Pssshhhh......we've seen this happen time and time again. Nothing new here.


----------



## Yeswecan

bandit.45 said:


> WW cheating on the OM with her BS?
> 
> Pssshhhh......we've seen this happen time and time again. Nothing new here.


Sometimes it just does not end.

I believe she is reweighing her options. It's all about options.


----------



## dadof2

bandit.45 said:


> No. She doesn't want you back. She's friend-zoning you. Don't fall for it.
> 
> See, in her farked-up brain, if she can get you to be friends with her, then all the bad things she did...the betrayal, lying, having an RO filed against you, the cheating, taking your children from you....all of these wrongs will be instantly erased and forgotten, and never to be mentioned again.
> 
> In her disturbed mindset, by keeping you on the shelf as a friend, she can proudly go before family and friends and tell them that the divorce is an amicable one, that the two of you realize that you were just not meant to be and that the marriage was a mistake from the beginning, but that you and her will still be good friends who support each other, who will harmoniously co-parent the children, and that you accept the newfound love in her life and agree that he is a better match for her, and that the OM and you have set down swords and are buddies now, and that the children are sighing with joy at the sight of all this harmony and mutual goodwill....and the unicorns are frolicking in the flower laden meadow, while fairies glide and zip over waterfalls bejeweled in dazzling sunlight and rainbows, and.....
> 
> 
> Do you need to hear more or would you like to vomit now?


I think you are exactly right Bandit. She may very well be trying to just say that everything is amicable while she goes on about her business when she is by herself. I am not falling for it, I am pretty jaded about the whole idea of our marriage anyway. I plan on setting that boundary if she asks for another get together with the kids.


----------



## tom67

Yeswecan said:


> Sometimes it just does not end.
> 
> I believe she is reweighing her options. It's all about options.


I'll bet if she saw him with a young hottie she would be having second thoughts.


----------



## dadof2

CASE_Sensitive said:


> Do you think you're up for dating anytime soon?


Actually I have been seriously considering asking out a girl that I know here in town. I don't have her number but we are Facebook friends, and apparently that is the new way of dating these days...

I have been thinking about sending her a FB message and maybe meeting up with her after work one day. She has a little girl and is not married, but she may be dating, I don't know.

I worry if I am ready for it yet, but I also think it could be fun and it would be a great way to feel like a "normal" guy again.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> Actually I have been seriously considering asking out a girl that I know here in town. I don't have her number but we are Facebook friends, and apparently that is the new way of dating these days...
> 
> I have been thinking about sending her a FB message and maybe meeting up with her after work one day. She has a little girl and is not married, but she may be dating, I don't know.
> 
> I worry if I am ready for it yet, but I also think it could be fun and it would be a great way to feel like a "normal" guy again.


Eh what the heck ask her out.
You'll get the butterflies out of your stomach then.


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> I think you are exactly right Bandit. She may very well be trying to just say that everything is amicable while she goes on about her business when she is by herself. I am not falling for it, I am pretty jaded about the whole idea of our marriage anyway. I plan on setting that boundary if she asks for another get together with the kids.


And also this...

What has she given you in terms of a explanation for her behavior...for the affair? Does she even acknowledge she has done anything wrong? Does she acknowledge your pain?

For me to even halfway be considering any kind of amicability, I would want this from her. If she can't provide it, or even attempt to....then it's war.


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> Actually I have been seriously considering asking out a girl that I know here in town. I don't have her number but we are Facebook friends, and apparently that is the new way of dating these days...
> 
> I have been thinking about sending her a FB message and maybe meeting up with her after work one day. She has a little girl and is not married, but she may be dating, I don't know.
> 
> I worry if I am ready for it yet, but I also think it could be fun and it would be a great way to feel like a "normal" guy again.


Best way to get over a woman is to get under another one.


----------



## sandc

dadof2 said:


> Actually I have been seriously considering asking out a girl that I know here in town. I don't have her number but we are Facebook friends, and apparently that is the new way of dating these days...
> 
> I have been thinking about sending her a FB message and maybe meeting up with her after work one day. She has a little girl and is not married, but she may be dating, I don't know.
> 
> I worry if I am ready for it yet, but I also think it could be fun and it would be a great way to feel like a "normal" guy again.


Don't ask her out on a date then. Ask her out to have coffee. Tell her she seems interesting and you'd like to get to know more about her. Don't make it a date and freak yourself or her out. 

Then pray like hell someone your wife knows spots you having coffee with Miss Facebook.


----------



## tom67

sandc said:


> Don't ask her out on a date then. Ask her out to have coffee. Tell her she seems interesting and you'd like to get to know more about her. Don't make it a date and freak yourself or her out.
> 
> Then pray like hell someone your wife knows spots you having coffee with Miss Facebook.


Bingo
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bigfoot

Dad, just a word of caution about the RO. I am a bit confused on the status and terms of it, but I have A LOT of professional experience with this issue. Those are court orders and not subject to informal modification by any party. The court must change the terms or dismiss. Even if she says, "let's meet" it does not protect you from charges of violating the order.

Her text to you and your reply about breakfast could hurt you. Follow that order to the letter unless and until formally authorized to do otherwise. Speak with your lawyer on this, NOW. end threadjack.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

dadof2 said:


> Actually I have been seriously considering asking out a girl that I know here in town. I don't have her number but we are Facebook friends, and apparently that is the new way of dating these days...
> 
> I have been thinking about sending her a FB message and maybe meeting up with her after work one day. She has a little girl and is not married, but she may be dating, I don't know.
> 
> I worry if I am ready for it yet, but I also think it could be fun and it would be a great way to feel like a "normal" guy again.


Good for you. Don't put any more pressure on yourself that isn't already there. You deserve to start dipping your toe back into the dating pool. You can always decide to hold off or take a step back, but being in the company of a pretty lady would probably be one of the best things to moving forward. As a person who stayed true, loves his kids and did everything you could to hold your family together, you're a hot commodity.


----------



## 3putt

bigfoot said:


> Dad, just a word of caution about the RO. I am a bit confused on the status and terms of it, but I have A LOT of professional experience with this issue. Those are court orders and not subject to informal modification by any party. The court must change the terms or dismiss. Even if she says, "let's meet" it does not protect you from charges of violating the order.
> 
> Her text to you and your reply about breakfast could hurt you. Follow that order to the letter unless and until formally authorized to do otherwise. Speak with your lawyer on this, NOW. end threadjack.


Don't confuse very good advice with a threadjack. I didn't look at it that way, but it makes good sense.


----------



## tryingpatience

CASE_Sensitive said:


> Thank god your son doesn't go to school where she teaches.


I made sure this went into my separation agreement. Kids can't go to the school she teaches at.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Turin74

This. Dadof2, while I haven't been posting in your thread before, my bets on this recent development are:

"I want to get Dadof2 in trouble by provoking him to violate RO" - 15%
"I need to test my seducing powers pronto, my knee jerk reaction to him getting away from being attracted to me. Once he falls, I'll just laugh " - 25%
"The grass is not that green on the other side. Do I still have a Plan B? " - 25%
"For the sake of my self esteem and opinion of my peers the whole thing needs to look like a mutual and amicable decision of two grown ups (what bandit45 said) " - 30%
"I made a mistake, I want my family back, I don't realise the proper answer is not to attempt to date my BH, but true remorse and honesty" - 5%





bigfoot said:


> Dad, just a word of caution about the RO. I am a bit confused on the status and terms of it, but I have A LOT of professional experience with this issue. Those are court orders and not subject to informal modification by any party. The court must change the terms or dismiss. Even if she says, "let's meet" it does not protect you from charges of violating the order.
> 
> Her text to you and your reply about breakfast could hurt you. Follow that order to the letter unless and until formally authorized to do otherwise. Speak with your lawyer on this, NOW. end threadjack.


 _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## lordmayhem

bigfoot said:


> Dad, just a word of caution about the RO. I am a bit confused on the status and terms of it, but I have A LOT of professional experience with this issue. Those are court orders and not subject to informal modification by any party. The court must change the terms or dismiss. Even if she says, "let's meet" it does not protect you from charges of violating the order.
> 
> Her text to you and your reply about breakfast could hurt you. Follow that order to the letter unless and until formally authorized to do otherwise. Speak with your lawyer on this, NOW. end threadjack.


:iagree:

This is the most unusual RO/PO I've ever seen in my life. Constant contact, meetings, etc. 

I've seen on many occasions where the petitioner meets the respondent, then as soon as she's pissed off at him, she calls the cops and the cops take the respondent straight to jail for violation of the RO/PO. In my state, the RO goes only one way, and doesn't prevent the petitioner from contacting the respondent. 

I would use the meeting as further justification to have the RO thrown out of court.


----------



## lordmayhem

dadof2 said:


> We got back in town on Friday and I was supposed to meet STBX for the child swap that Sunday. We have been swapping at a gas station in town, and she told me that she went to a meeting while we were gone at our child's school. Our oldest is starting school this year and she had some paperwork that we both needed to sign. I suggested that we meet at a local restaurant for breakfast, and she seemed very eager to do that. We met Sunday morning, and she was dressed to the nines. She looked great, I will admit it. We talked about school, vacation, etc. no relationship talk. I stayed cool and distant, while she was acting like her old self, telling jokes, laughing, etc. She asked at the end if I would like to do this again and I said "I don't know, we'll see how it goes." We parted ways and she left with the kids. 30 mins later she texted me saying thanks for breakfast, really enjoyed it. I simply put back "You're welcome"


If you want to risk going to jail for violating the RO/PO, then be my guest. Because legally, you were in violation and all she had to do was call the cops and you would be sitting in jail.


----------



## EleGirl

lordmayhem said:


> If you want to risk going to jail for violating the RO/PO, then be my guest. Because legally, you were in violation and all she had to do was call the cops and you would be sitting in jail.


:iagreeadof2... contact your lawyer before going to that school event with your stbxw there. You are putting yourself in all kinds of jeopardy.


----------



## tom67

EleGirl said:


> :iagreeadof2... contact your lawyer before going to that school event with your stbxw there. You are putting yourself in all kinds of jeopardy.


Ele is right just make sure
Plus I remembered this 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvUZijEuNDQ


----------



## LongWalk

The RO had everything to do with her instability. She wanted to conduct the affair without interference and she could not imagine that you would allow it. After all, she would have gone ballistic had your roles been reversed.

Eating breakfast with her was a way of granting forgiveness. She unilaterally and informally ended the RO, demonstrating that her mature approach had solved the problem of getting you to accept that your marriage was over.

Unless, you know that she and OM have quarrelled and broken up, the breakfast was just a new phase of diplomacy in her life. She wants to make things smooth for herself.

Are you sorry that you never exposed? School will be starting soon and although rumors have been spread about the fornication, will they officially present themselves as couple in September?


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> The RO had everything to do with her instability. She wanted to conduct the affair without interference and she could not imagine that you would allow it. After all, she would have gone ballistic had your roles been reversed.
> 
> Eating breakfast with her was a way of granting forgiveness. She unilaterally and informally ended the RO, demonstrating that her mature approach had solved the problem of getting you to accept that your marriage was over.
> 
> Unless, you know that she and OM have quarrelled and broken up, the breakfast was just a new phase of diplomacy in her life. She wants to make things smooth for herself.
> 
> Are you sorry that you never exposed? School will be starting soon and although rumors have been spread about the fornication, will they officially present themselves as couple in September?


I say for effect he shows up with hottie in hand.
It may just shake the fog out.


----------



## happyman64

I say he has the PI film the next breakfast, especially when he plants a whopper of a kiss on his WW.

Then send the video to the OM and to the judge who issued the restraining order for his WW.

Maybe that will kill 2 birds with one stone.

In fact he should have his attorney do a narration and the PI can edit some other video of her and the OM together so the schoolboard will be just as confused as Do2 is right now.


Any other suggestions????


----------



## dadof2

We had the open house at school for our son last night. It went pretty well, I had the kids and STBX was in the parking lot when we got there. We went in and met his teacher, filled out some forms, etc. Not much alone time, and we were both cordial.

When it was over, we brought the kids back to my car and once they were loaded, STBX was just kind of standing there. I think she was expecting me to ask her to come eat dinner with me and the kids. I just said to the kids, "Ok guys, tell mommy bye." And I got in the car. She said her goodbyes to the kids and I drove off. Not sure what she was expecting but I didn't even tell her goodbye. It was very hard, because part of me wanted to talk with her, but I have to remember to stay focused.


----------



## bandit.45

You did good.


----------



## happyman64

Very good. !

And it is not just about staying focused but tough as in tough love.


----------



## turnera

Did you have a VAR going, just in case she tried to frame you even more?


----------



## dadof2

Yes I have a recorder I keep with me 24/7 for any interactions with STBX.


----------



## Turin74

Taking my hat off. 




dadof2 said:


> Yes I have a recorder I keep with me 24/7 for any interactions with STBX.


 _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## old red

well done dadof2. don't pine for what you hoped your wife was, instead school yourself to see her as she really is. focus on being the best dad that you can be. use your anger over not seeing your kids everyday to detach from your wife so that you see her true self. easy to say, damn near impossible to achieve, but this situation has been forced upon you. best wishes to you.


----------



## sandc

:toast: You handled that well.


----------



## barbados

Between her actions at breakfast and at the car after the school thing, just makes me think that all may not be going well in the land of puppies and unicorns with POSOM. 

Stay strong Dadof2 and don't fall her any of her manipulating crap.


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> We had the open house at school for our son last night. It went pretty well, I had the kids and STBX was in the parking lot when we got there. We went in and met his teacher, filled out some forms, etc. Not much alone time, and we were both cordial.
> 
> When it was over, we brought the kids back to my car and once they were loaded, STBX was just kind of standing there. I think she was expecting me to ask her to come eat dinner with me and the kids. I just said to the kids, "Ok guys, tell mommy bye." And I got in the car. She said her goodbyes to the kids and I drove off. Not sure what she was expecting but I didn't even tell her goodbye. It was very hard, because part of me wanted to talk with her, but I have to remember to stay focused.


It's good that it went well. But you are breaking the RO all over the place. Have you talked to your lawyer about this?


----------



## sandc

EleGirl said:


> It's good that it went well. But you are breaking the RO all over the place. Have you talked to your lawyer about this?


Yep. I know your lawyer charges you $100 every time you even think about her but you really should discuss this with her. Or him. Whomever.


----------



## LongWalk

Good that you did not socialize with her. That would have lowered your sex ranking enormously. Evolution has programmed us to value access to a females reproductive capacity. For you to be friendly with your wife when another man's semen has enjoyed a restraining order on your seed, your wife knows in every pore of her being that you should now reject her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Good that you did not socialize with her. That would have lowered your sex ranking enormously. Evolution has programmed us to value access to a females reproductive capacity. For you to be friendly with your wife when another man's semen has enjoyed a restraining order on your seed, your wife knows in every pore of her being that you should now reject her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


His wife has to see him with a younger hotter version of her.
And surely I'm serious and please don't call me Shirley.
I bet she would freak if he had a woman next to him.

Southsideirish was on his way to d until his w found out he was dating.
Don't know what happened after that.


----------



## dadof2

As far as the RO goes, we discussed it in our meeting with the attorneys. Her attorney said anything we agree on mutually is okay, she just doesn't want me showing up uninvited at her house or work or harassing her in any way. 

It seems that if that's all she wanted then they could have written a much less scathing RO. But I do understand that the courts still have the original RO on record, so I keep the VAR on me at all times whenever I'm around her.


----------



## dadof2

barbados said:


> *Between her actions at breakfast and at the car after the school thing, just makes me think that all may not be going well in the land of puppies and unicorns with POSOM*.
> 
> Stay strong Dadof2 and don't fall her any of her manipulating crap.


I have thought about this also. I would imagine the "shine" may be off of their relationship now that a new school year has started. It is one thing to flirt and hide an affair the last month of school and over the summer, but then to start school again with the newness wearing off, I'm sure it is hitting her a little bit.

But she is wayyy too prideful and stubborn to ever admit she has made a mistake.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2, given the overall tone of what you've posted lately, I'm feeling the need to ask this...

Are you at all open to the idea of reconciling w/ your wife? Either way, it would seem that she's fishing for it.

And remind me... where is it that she's living these days?


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

dadof2 said:


> We had the open house at school for our son last night. It went pretty well, I had the kids and STBX was in the parking lot when we got there. We went in and met his teacher, filled out some forms, etc. Not much alone time, and we were both cordial.
> 
> When it was over, we brought the kids back to my car and once they were loaded, STBX was just kind of standing there. I think she was expecting me to ask her to come eat dinner with me and the kids. I just said to the kids, "Ok guys, tell mommy bye." And I got in the car. She said her goodbyes to the kids and I drove off. Not sure what she was expecting but I didn't even tell her goodbye. It was very hard, because part of me wanted to talk with her, but I have to remember to stay focused.


That was indeed very good. Slightly better would have been "ok guys, tell mommy bye and we'll go get some dinner!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

GusPolinski said:


> dadof2, given the overall tone of what you've posted lately, I'm feeling the need to ask this...
> 
> Are you at all open to the idea of reconciling w/ your wife? Either way, it would seem that she's fishing for it.
> 
> And remind me... where is it that she's living these days?


And I'll just say "don't!" Even if you'd like to, get divorced first! You'd have 2 start all over anyway. 

-ol' 2long
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dadof2

2long said:


> That was indeed very good. Slightly better would have been "ok guys, tell mommy bye and we'll go get some dinner!"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're right 2long, because I took them to a place we always go to let them play and have ice cream right after the school function. I should have let it "slip" to STBX that we were heading there!


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> As far as the RO goes, we discussed it in our meeting with the attorneys. Her attorney said anything we agree on mutually is okay, she just doesn't want me showing up uninvited at her house or work or harassing her in any way.
> 
> It seems that if that's all she wanted then they could have written a much less scathing RO. But I do understand that the courts still have the original RO on record, so I keep the VAR on me at all times whenever I'm around her.


Regardless of what was discussed between you and the attorneys, there is an RO. At any time your wife could call the cops on you when you are near her. The courts do not care about a conversation you had with some attorneys. They give bad advice all the time. I know this from experience.


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> dadof2, given the overall tone of what you've posted lately, I'm feeling the need to ask this...
> 
> Are you at all open to the idea of reconciling w/ your wife? Either way, it would seem that she's fishing for it.
> 
> And remind me... where is it that she's living these days?


Gus, I have noticed that from her quite a bit lately, and I am trying to make sense of it. If I am honest with myself I would have to say that part of me would love to have her home and us trying to reconcile. But another part of me doesn't seem to be able to see her as what she once was, I only see her as a liar and a cheater.

If she were to make the attempt and show some sincere remorse, I could be swayed that way. I just don't know how genuine she is with anything she says.

For now I am moving forward with the divorce, our hearing is in a little over 2 weeks. I have asked my lawyer to prepare a consent agreement lining out everything from custody to child support payments to a community property settlement. I would like to present it all to her in a clean document and hopefully get it wrapped up before the hearing, that way it would simply be a formality. No matter what transpires between now and then, I am not going to slow my lawyer down.

She is living in an apartment about 10 mins from our house. I put all of her belongings, including some furniture in my garage for her to get while I was on vacation. I offered to buy a mini storage unit and pay the first month's bill because I know she didn't have room to store it all at her place. She said no thanks, and a friend of mine drove by her apartment a few days ago and noticed her car was parked outside (her unit has a one car enclosed garage). So that tells me she just has it all sitting in her garage now.


----------



## dadof2

2long said:


> A*nd I'll just say "don't!" Even if you'd like to, get divorced first! You'd have 2 start all over anyway*.
> 
> -ol' 2long
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hear ya. IF R was even a possibility, a heavy post-nup would be involved. But I honestly don't know if I want to even go down that road of worrying where she is, checking up on her stories, etc.


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> I have thought about this also. I would imagine the "shine" may be off of their relationship now that a new school year has started. It is one thing to flirt and hide an affair the last month of school and over the summer, but then to start school again with the newness wearing off, I'm sure it is hitting her a little bit.
> 
> But she is wayyy too prideful and stubborn to ever admit she has made a mistake.


There is a better women out there for you.


----------



## happyman64

dadof2 said:


> *But she is wayyy too prideful and stubborn to ever admit she has made a mistake*.


You might think that. But it really depends on you.

You might not get that apology but in some way or over a certain period of time she will let it get back to you that she f'd up and made a bad decision.

Of course it could be twenty years from now.

It takes some adults a long time to grow up.

It did not happen to me until I turned thirty.


----------



## barbados

bandit.45 said:


> There is a better women out there for you.


:iagree:

R should not even be considered in a case like this.


----------



## sandc

happyman64 said:


> You might think that. But it really depends on you.
> 
> You might not get that apology but in some way or over a certain period of time she will let it get back to you that she f'd up and made a bad decision.
> 
> Of course it could be twenty years from now.
> 
> It takes some adults a long time to grow up.
> 
> It did not happen to me until I turned thirty.


I agree but want to point out that in 20 years, he could be celebrating an 18th or 19th anniversary with a wonderful woman. Or in 20 years he could have a very remorseful and repentant fWW. He'll have to do the risk reward analysis.

Dad, it's really up to you.


----------



## Hicks

With that restraining order, you should not be speaking to her or in her presence.

Once there is an opportunity to get you in jail she will play the card.


----------



## dadof2

sandc said:


> I agree but want to point out that in 20 years, he could be celebrating an 18th or 19th anniversary with a wonderful woman. Or in 20 years he could have a very remorseful and repentant fWW. He'll have to do the risk reward analysis.
> 
> Dad, it's really up to you.


You are exactly right. I have weighed this up and down a hundred times and am still stuck on it. My background is Finance so I am very detail oriented. Risk/reward is exactly right! Seems like if I R with STBX, then my "reward" is mind movies, second guessing, and never fully trusting her again.


----------



## tom67

You could ask to meet her before the hearing and ask her if she truly wants the d.
I'm just saying if she keeps on acting the way she has recently been.
Hey at least you could say you gave it one last chance don't shoot me.


----------



## dadof2

tom67 said:


> You could ask to meet her before the hearing and ask her if she truly wants the d.
> I'm just saying if she keeps on acting the way she has recently been.
> Hey at least you could say you gave it one last chance don't shoot me.


I have thought about that Tom. I have also spoken with my therapist about doing exactly that. I am just worried that she would say just enough to string me along and really never move towards R, just start cake eating. I have not given her any cake so far, and I don't want to start. If I could trust that she would give me a genuine answer, then I wouldn't be as hesitant to ask exactly what you said.

My therapist said that the looming hearing date would make her feel the squeeze so its not like any cake eating would be open ended. Even if she told me she wasn't sure about D or R, once we have the hearing I would take that as her answer that she really wants D. Hell at this point I don't know if I even want R, but I don't want to look back and think that she was just waiting for me to bring it up. She has always done this, when something is on her mind she kicks around the edges until I finally start talking about it. I have held off on doing that in this situation, just because I feel like the onus should be on her to bring it up. As far as I know, if she doesn't bring it up, then D is what she really wants.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> I have thought about that Tom. I have also spoken with my therapist about doing exactly that. I am just worried that she would say just enough to string me along and really never move towards R, just start cake eating. I have not given her any cake so far, and I don't want to start. If I could trust that she would give me a genuine answer, then I wouldn't be as hesitant to ask exactly what you said.
> 
> My therapist said that the looming hearing date would make her feel the squeeze so its not like any cake eating would be open ended. Even if she told me she wasn't sure about D or R, once we have the hearing I would take that as her answer that she really wants D. Hell at this point I don't know if I even want R, but I don't want to look back and think that she was just waiting for me to bring it up. She has always done this, when something is on her mind she kicks around the edges until I finally start talking about it. I have held off on doing that in this situation, just because I feel like the onus should be on her to bring it up. As far as I know, if she doesn't bring it up, then D is what she really wants.


I know but you said how pig headed she was.
IF you were to you can print up a list of what SHE would have to do.
Again it would be just so you could say eh, I tried.
If she burned that bridge I totally get it.


----------



## happyman64

dadof2 said:


> You are exactly right. I have weighed this up and down a hundred times and am still stuck on it. My background is Finance so I am very detail oriented. Risk/reward is exactly right! *Seems like if I R with STBX, then my "reward" is mind movies, second guessing, and never fully trusting her again*.


That is just not true.

R takes two. 

Two people that love each other.
Two people that respect each other.
Two people that learn to trust each other again.

But not every BS is capable of doing this.

It takes a strong individual (either man or woman) that can throw caution to the wind and learn to love, respect and trust a "wayward" again.

Not everyone is cut out for that.

And yes there is a chance it can happen again. The key is that you decide to yourself the day you decide to R with that "wayward" is that if you throw all caution to the wind and go for it that both of you are 110% percent in it.

If that person cheats again you not only divorce them but you rip them out of your life.

And you make it clear to the "wayward" that is what the consequences will be if they ever hurt you again like that.

Sure you can D her. Then maybe get back together again when she grows up.

But who knows. You might be the guy who gets to show her what an adult acts like, thinks like when infidelity is introduced into their marriage.

It takes a person that is truly a leader. But is also confident enough in themselves to be able to R. And strong enough to know it takes a long time to fix these kinds of issues in their marriage.

And there ism no shame if you are not that type of person.

But don't worry about it for now. You are still too early in the process.

Sit back. Watch. Think. And enjoy the family time when you have it.

The next few months will tell you if she is even worth it.

HM


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> But she is wayyy too prideful and stubborn to ever admit she has made a mistake.


That would make any potential R a no go.


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> I have thought about that Tom. I have also spoken with my therapist about doing exactly that. I am just worried that she would say just enough to string me along and really never move towards R, just start cake eating. I have not given her any cake so far, and I don't want to start. If I could trust that she would give me a genuine answer, then I wouldn't be as hesitant to ask exactly what you said.
> 
> My therapist said that the looming hearing date would make her feel the squeeze so its not like any cake eating would be open ended. Even if she told me she wasn't sure about D or R, once we have the hearing I would take that as her answer that she really wants D. Hell at this point I don't know if I even want R, but I don't want to look back and think that she was just waiting for me to bring it up. She has always done this, when something is on her mind she kicks around the edges until I finally start talking about it. I have held off on doing that in this situation, just because I feel like the onus should be on her to bring it up. As far as I know, if she doesn't bring it up, then D is what she really wants.


I think anyone in her position would be torn between D and R as the date approaches.

But you were 100% spot on earlier when you said you could never trust her again.

I think couples who R are worthy of envy, but if she isn't 110% whole hearted about it and about you then it's doomed to fail. 

And why go there?


----------



## happyman64

thatbpguy said:


> I think anyone in her position would be torn between D and R as the date approaches.
> 
> But you were 100% spot on earlier when you said you could never trust her again.
> 
> I think couples who R are worthy of envy, but if she isn't 110% whole hearted about it and about you then it's doomed to fail.
> 
> And why go there?


Very true. She has to be worth it to ever go there IMHO.

You have plenty of time to think about it.

Watch what she does. Do not listen to what she says. Actions over words.


----------



## Nucking Futs

thatbpguy said:


> That would make any potential R a no go.


I agree. I don't think someone with that description would be capable of the heavy lifting.


----------



## Turin74

If she would be fishing for the opportunity to get back (R, plan B, whatever) she'd start with lifting the RO. While we would all love to see her crawling back, I still back my statistics above (5% she's starting to get out of fog, the rest is mind games). 

Dad2, you are finance guy, I'm risk management guy  
Risk and reward is viable strategy when you can afford to lose the risky bit to get the reward, eg it's a growth strategy. Under the circumstances I'd propose a more conservative risk mitigation approach. So keep doing what you are doing, it's working.  

And remember about RO

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

The reason *I* keep saying divorce first, whether you want 2 recover or not, is because it was when I told my wife that I would NOT go through what I went through for ANYBODY ever again (especially her), that we finally started a real recovery. I waited YEARS 2 get 2 where I could say it and mean it. I was ready 2 divorce if she didn't "get it" that time. But she did.

-ol' 2long


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

And basically, not doing that all those years allowed her or gave her the impression that I gave her permission 2 not do more than she felt like doing 2 stay married. 

You don't want that, believe me! You want her 2 know you won't put up with her sh!t, and that she's going 2 have 2 start all over with you. And that you still might not give her a chance, even then. Make her do all the work.

-ol' 2long


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2,

Your WW left home. That is an extreme move for a woman with children. The consequence may be that she is now regretting what she has done.

if you want to draw her out, keep going to group events together and see if she gravitates towards you. Do you want her given what you have told us?



> She is 30 years old. Too young for midlife crisis. But she was a SAHM for 3 years and went back to work this year. Over the last year she became obsessed with losing weight and her looks. She has been taking adderall daily for the last 6 months or so. Also a xanax and a large drink at night to sleep. I believe she is clinically depressed but has never seen a psych. When she went back to work this year, I believe that she was getting attention from OM and realized that there is more to life than being married to me.


OM may have tired of her since he noticed she was vulnerable and decided to play her.

Letting her go to school as the freshly divorced cheater will be a big wake up for her. Is she going to be telling all her colleagues how great her new apartment?

Your kids aren't that old so you have plenty of reason to watch their sports activities together. 

Don't talk a lot. Be curt but not hostile. Women like the strong, silent types.

Start dating if you feel up for it.


----------



## warlock07

Might be overreaching here with the speculation but...

I don't think you will be happy with R in the next few years. You don't seem the type. I think you will someone that will end up like Cantbelievethis. 

I could be wrong, but that is the sense I get from your posts.

The best case for Ring for you would be is 

you divorce her 

she keeps apologizing for her affair and tries to get back with you for some time.

you can try it again after dating a few other woman.


----------



## Syco

The restraining order is still in play, but you decided to have breakfast with her?!


----------



## tom67

Dude just ask that facebook friend out go to a restaurant where you know some mutual friends may be.
Wash rinse and repeat.
Then grab some popcorn and wait for her to contact you again.
Talk to you lawyer about further contact.


----------



## drifting on

I can only tell you R is a very difficult path, and that's with both of you working very hard. If she is pig headed as you say do you think she will put in the effort to do the heavy lifting?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

What is all this talk about R when all that's happened was a friendly breakfast? Lets not put the horse before the cart here.

Look, I'm ALL for R if and when the WS is truly remorseful and is busting their ass to earn it. But this particular WS has been downright evil, and is universes away from even being a little remorseful. 

It's just typical WS fantasy: She gets everything, rides off into the sunset with OM, and the OP is friends with her and happy for them.


----------



## LongWalk

Everyone is in agreement. Dof2 cannot rug sweep a path to R. And as Mayhem points out she has not even offered R. Accepting the RO as legitimate is in itself an insult.

Dof2,

Do you think your WW is looking forward to the beginning of the school year?


----------



## happyman64

:iagree:

His wife can only think as far as the next breakfast meeting.

Mentally and emotionally she sounds quite challenged. That could doom any marriage let alone one infected with infidelity.....

Maybe Dof2 will fill us in if anything has changed.

I think he is waiting for the next hearing to really know what direction he is heading in.


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2, you posted on another thread:



> As I was reading through the last few pages of this thread, I said to myself, "TP's scenario is mirroring mine to the letter." I see a few of you also picked up on that.
> 
> I believe as far as a meeting goes, it all depends on where you are at, not her. My STBX tried a month or so ago to have a meeting and/or start MC, but I told her I couldn't do that knowing what she had done. I honestly think it surprised her that I rebuffed her. At that point, though I was still hurt and the pain was fresh.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago I took the kids on vacation for a week and had a great time. *Before I left I moved all of her remaining belongings out of the house and told her that I was done fighting and that I realize D is where we are heading so I no longer want to slow it down.* I am so glad I did that when I did. I had a lot of time to think while driving, and I could feel the indifference to her slowly creeping in. I will admit, I had a few rough moments on vacation, especially seeing families enjoying themselves at the amusement parks.
> 
> But a funny thing happened while I was away. She came and got her things. She called/texted/facetimed more than she ever had. When I got home she asked for us to have breakfast as a family. I met each request with a calm answer, sometimes not answering her texts for hours. I can feel the detachment getting stronger each day. I do have bad days, and being alone sucks, but I also think about living with her lies and manipulation.
> 
> Now she has started back to school and *I think the whole school knows about her and OM. I don't believe she is having any contact with him. Last year she used to park her car right next to his (something I found out later). Now her car is in the back of the lot by itself. She hasn't said a word to me about it. *
> 
> _So exposure was toxic to the affair._
> 
> This past Monday she asked if she could come by and drop something off. It was a plate of brownies she made "for the kids." I told her at that time that I wasn't comfortable having any more of these meetings and pretending we are a family and that nothing is wrong. She agreed and said that she will look into a counselor again for us. I told her to let me know what she finds out. I don't have much expectations, but its amazing how they can see the detachment.
> 
> I don't know where we go from here, I don't know if I want to even try to R with her at this point. But I do know that I will make the final decision, not her. I am nowhere near done with the emotional rollercoaster, and I still hurt when I think of what she has done to our family, but the 4 months of NC has let me see things from 50K and the view is amazing.
> 
> I didn't mean to hijack, I guess I could have written this in my thread, but I wanted to you know that I was right there with STBX asking to talk about "stuff." We didn't get into the details at our family breakfast, but I think it opened the door for communication and I have made it clear that she will be the one to do the heavy lifting. I think you can take this path also. Go have a light meeting with her, don't even talk about the D. Talk about kids, make jokes about being a single dad, etc. But when its over, leave with your head high and don't stumble around trying to say something. Just tell her goodbye and let her be the one standing there.


It was amazing to read this post. You have really changed and it comes through in what you write. Suddenly your wife is the uncertain party. The idea of R is now in your hands.

POSOM tired of her. She has been stung.

Her suggestion of MC can be good, even if you have a poor counselor who wants to rug sweep affairs and place blame on both parties. For after your TAM experience you can now easily decline any reconciliation that is not based on complete remorse.

Who is gathering intelligence about the reaction at school?

If you do go to MC, perhaps you might ask your wife if she wants to file a sexual harassment complaint against POSOM?

She ought to file one. Moreover, she should consider him an enemy to her happiness.

Well done.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Dof2, you posted on another thread:
> 
> 
> 
> It was amazing to read this post. You have really changed and it come through in what you write. Suddenly your wife is the uncertain party. The idea of R is now in your hands.
> 
> POSOM tired of her. She has been stung.
> 
> Her suggestion of MC can be good, even if you have a poor counselor who wants to rug sweep affairs and place blame on both parties. For after your TAM experience you can now easily decline any reconciliation that is not based on complete remorse.
> 
> Who is gathering intelligence about the reaction at school?
> 
> If you do go to MC, perhaps you might ask your wife if she wants to file a sexual harassment complaint against POSOM?
> 
> She ought to file one. Moreover, she should consider him an enemy to her happiness.
> 
> Well done.


Talk about a power shift.
Yes she sees him moving on and frankly it makes him more attractive.
Too little too late.


----------



## farsidejunky

Lw:

Glad you caught that or I would have missed it.

Do2:

Update? Your post in the other thread sounded really healthy brother.


----------



## sandc

Thanks for the crosspost Longwalk. Many of us would have missed that.


----------



## lordmayhem

Its the middle of August now, when is the hearing to contest the RO? You wouldn't know it by reading this story that there is an RO in effect.


----------



## Dyokemm

I am a teacher....

I would bet money that the exposure done with the school board by OP's father and by OP with the district led to a beginning of the year dressing down of the AP's....ESPECIALLY Mr.VP POS that they were on thin ice and the district would not tolerate an open A on one of their campuses.

The fun of a campus A really goes away when people get put on notice about potential letters of reprimand, forced transfers, and dismissal...I have seen this same thing happen several times during my career when the A is aggressively exposed and threatens to become a public black eye for the district.


----------



## sandc

Dyokemm said:


> I am a teacher....
> 
> I would bet money that the exposure done with the school board by OP's father and by OP with the district led to a beginning of the year dressing down of the AP's....ESPECIALLY Mr.VP POS that they were on thin ice and the district would not tolerate an open A on one of their campuses.
> 
> The fun of a campus A really goes away when people get put on notice about potential letters of reprimand, forced transfers, and dismissal...I have seen this same thing happen several times during my career when the A is aggressively exposed and threatens to become a public black eye for the district.


Since OP's wife is not being more aggressive about wanting to "come back." I wonder if Mr. VP is stringing her along? Telling her they just have to lay low for a while until "this all blows over" with the school board while he's actively distancing himself for good. Maybe her spider-sense is telling her she should go back to OP but she's holding out hope for OM to come back. Hence the half-hearted overtures toward OP.


----------



## dadof2

Thanks for the cross post LW, I had planned on copying it over here, but I have been tied up at the office lately.

To add a little to it, our hearing is in less than 2 weeks. My lawyer has sent me a draft of a consent agreement that spells out everything- custody, support, and a community settlement. It makes my stomach turn to read it and realize that this still isn't a bad dream.

I don't know what to think of her overtures lately. They have been the strongest she has made yet, but still pretty weak. Unfortunately having known her for so long, when she wants something she kicks around the edges until I drag it out of her.

As far as the RO, it really is the most bizarre thing I've ever seen. She asked for it, got it, and now is breaking it all over the place. It shows me that she filed in such a hurry and tried everything she could to keep me out of her business. I think now she is starting to backpedal a little bit. We have included in our agreement that it will be dropped and my attorney put language in there for a mutual order against harassment, stalking, etc. More standard type stuff than the original RO.

I think she is on the fence emotionally. I am not sure what her status is with OM, but it seems like things have cooled and I don't exactly know why. After I told her the other day that I enjoyed the family stuff but I'm not comfortable doing it any more, she hasn't said a word to me. She said she would look into a counselor, but she is also mum on that. Right now I am staying at 50K and watching the actions rather than the words.


----------



## sandc

Good plan. It's time she stop relying on you to pry her feelings from her. You are doing the right things. Keep moving forward. Keep watching. Proceed with the D. You may find you don't want her as much as you thought you would. You may find that you to remarry one day with a STRONG pre-nup. Either way, time and resolution are your friends.


----------



## lordmayhem

dadof2 said:


> As far as the RO, it really is the most bizarre thing I've ever seen. She asked for it, got it, and now is breaking it all over the place. It shows me that she filed in such a hurry and tried everything she could to keep me out of her business. I think now she is starting to backpedal a little bit. We have included in our agreement that it will be dropped and my attorney put language in there for a mutual order against harassment, stalking, etc. More standard type stuff than the original RO.


From what you've posted, there should be no problem having the RO thrown out. Her behavior is not that uncommon believe it or not. Once it's thrown out, then it will be extremely difficult for her to get an RO against you in the future. There would have to be extensive proof (i.e. DV reports, medical injury reports, etc).

Having it thrown out might also help you with the divorce process because it shows the malicious intent of the RO.


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> Unfortunately having known her for so long, when she wants something she kicks around the edges until I drag it out of her.


This means she's a leaner. She spends her life leaning on others and others' strength. So she doesn't have to. Unfortunately, if she's allowed to come back by leaning on you to 'push' her to the point of saying she wants to R...it won't be R. It'll be rug sweeping and in 5 years, she'll be the same person who eagerly accepted the affair, and she'll let some OTHER strong man, some new OM, 'push' her into another affair. Because she never really lives; just reacts.

The only way she'll ever be a good partner - to anyone - is if she hits rock bottom, sheds all the layers of self-protection she's built up over the years to avoid really living (with all its ugliness and all its beauty). Gets into real therapy to figure out who she really is, what her FOO scars are, fixes them, and comes out the other end a new, healthy person.

And that ain't gonna happen in a couple weeks. 

Get the divorce and, if she really regrets what happened, she'll get that help and then you can see what happens.


----------



## dadof2

turnera said:


> T*his means she's a leaner. She spends her life leaning on others and others' strength. So she doesn't have to.* Unfortunately, if she's allowed to come back by leaning on you to 'push' her to the point of saying she wants to R...it won't be R. It'll be rug sweeping and in 5 years, she'll be the same person who eagerly accepted the affair, and she'll let some OTHER strong man, some new OM, 'push' her into another affair. Because she never really lives; just reacts.
> 
> The only way she'll ever be a good partner - to anyone - is if she hits rock bottom, sheds all the layers of self-protection she's built up over the years to avoid really living (with all its ugliness and all its beauty). Gets into real therapy to figure out who she really is, what her FOO scars are, fixes them, and comes out the other end a new, healthy person.
> 
> And that ain't gonna happen in a couple weeks.
> 
> Get the divorce and, if she really regrets what happened, she'll get that help and then you can see what happens.



This is exactly right. A few months ago when this all started I had a long conversation with her sister. She said the same thing, that she makes these messes then depends on others to either bail her out or smooth it over. Sister said her parents did that for her her whole childhood. Looking back I can see where I took over that role as well. I am a "fixer" by nature and I loved doing things to make her life easy so she didn't have to worry about it. It played right into her personality, but apparently she became bored with me and began looking for someone new to take care of her. 

I don't get it at all though, OM makes about 1/2 of what I make, doesn't have a pot to piss in, and I did my best to give her the world. I know its not about money, but who wouldn't want to be comfortable the rest of their life and have a good family and future for their kids?? I don't get it sometimes.


----------



## lordmayhem

dadof2 said:


> I don't get it at all though, OM makes about 1/2 of what I make, doesn't have a pot to piss in, and I did my best to give her the world. I know its not about money, but who wouldn't want to be comfortable the rest of their life and have a good family and future for their kids?? I don't get it sometimes.


It never makes sense sometimes. There is one general rule of thumb, and generally: Cheaters affair down.

Not in all cases, but most cases, they affair down. In my own case, OM isn't even a quarter of the man I am, just works in a warehouse, and doesn't even have his own vehicle. 

When you look at it, it doesn't make sense, but that's how it is. Let him have her, you deserve better.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



dadof2 said:


> This is exactly right. A few months ago when this all started I had a long conversation with her sister. She said the same thing, that she makes these messes then depends on others to either bail her out or smooth it over. Sister said her parents did that for her her whole childhood. Looking back I can see where I took over that role as well. I am a "fixer" by nature and I loved doing things to make her life easy so she didn't have to worry about it. It played right into her personality, but apparently she became bored with me and began looking for someone new to take care of her.
> 
> I don't get it at all though, OM makes about 1/2 of what I make, doesn't have a pot to piss in, and I did my best to give her the world. I know its not about money, but who wouldn't want to be comfortable the rest of their life and have a good family and future for their kids?? I don't get it sometimes.


What's not to get? She thought she could have some fun and you'd "fix it" for her again. Except she never thought of how you'd feel and that you might not be so inclined to fix something so egregious. That was her biggest mistake.


----------



## LongWalk

Often in TAM CWI threads posters will urge that a wayward must leave the job when he or she works with the affair partner. Currently, Dof2 your wife is avoiding OM or avoiding the appearance of being with him. In other words, her car being parked far from his could have two interpretations. They may be continuing with the affair but not displaying contact in public. Alternatively, their relationship is over or in a state of suspension.

If, as Turnera notes, your wife is a leaner. Then she is now very uncomfortable. She may be clinging to OM and this is repelling him. That is why she is seeking better relations with you.

My old suggestion still stands. Put OM up on Cheaterville with a very low key post.



> Asst principal A has engaged in an inappropriate relationship with a subordinate colleague. A was a single divorced father at the time. He formed the relationship through an after school workout group for teachers. His affair partner was married with children at the time. To validate the extramarital affair A hired B to be his children's overnight childcare provider.


The objection to posting now is that exposure may already have scuppered the affair. So, to further amplify the negative PR would be overkill. Perhaps. However, it is also possible that it will destroy the affair relationship and any pleasant associations/memories surrounding it for both WW and OM.

OM will probably complain to WW, seeking her intervention with you. You don't have to acknowledge any connection with CV. After all, other people, colleagues at the school could plausibly have done this as well.

Keep the pressure up on WW by continuing to steam towards divorce. Be pleasant but detached from her. Keeping up a fairly tight 180 will have her doing a lot of hard thinking. If she wants to discuss reconciliation, you need a lot.

Does she now feel distaste for the affair?
Does she feel remorse?

Ironically, the stronger you are, the less she perceives your pain. If you go to MC. let her do most of the talking. If she is poking around the edges, trying to get you to want her back, you might be able to calmly state that it caused considerable pain to realize that your wife was having sex with another man, but once you accepted the reality and decided to move on with your life, you realized you could and would have a good life without her.

Whatever the pre affair state of your marriage, your wife punched a hole in the boat which is now 75% full of water. Before you should consider pumping out water, you need her to seal the hole. You require a timeline of the affair and NC email to OM to start.

How did she feel the first time she babysit OM's kids? Did it feel validating?


----------



## happyman64

Dof2



> I know its not about money, but who wouldn't want to be comfortable the rest of their life and have a good family and future for their kids?? I don't get it sometimes.


I told you a few weeks ago that you cannot make sense of crazy.

You will never get it because it really has nothing to do with you.

It is all on her.
Boredom. Check!
Selfishness. Check!
Weak. Check!
Cannot stand on her own two feet. Check!

Your wife has issues. She used all her selfish excuses to throw you out of the marriage and break up your family.

Stay on course with the Divorce.

Most important, your wife needs a good shrink before marriage counseling.

Patience.

HM


----------



## aug

dadof2 said:


> *As far as the RO, it really is the most bizarre thing I've ever seen. She asked for it, got it, and now is breaking it all over the place. *It shows me that she filed in such a hurry and tried everything she could to keep me out of her business. I think now she is starting to backpedal a little bit. We have included in our agreement that it will be dropped and my attorney put language in there for a mutual order against harassment, stalking, etc. More standard type stuff than the original RO.



I think, given what you had described about the RO, technically, she's not breaking the RO. You are.


----------



## helolover

dadof2 said:


> This is exactly right. A few months ago when this all started I had a long conversation with her sister. She said the same thing, that she makes these messes then depends on others to either bail her out or smooth it over. Sister said her parents did that for her her whole childhood. Looking back I can see where I took over that role as well. I am a "fixer" by nature and I loved doing things to make her life easy so she didn't have to worry about it. It played right into her personality, but apparently she became bored with me and began looking for someone new to take care of her.
> 
> I don't get it at all though, OM makes about 1/2 of what I make, doesn't have a pot to piss in, and I did my best to give her the world. I know its not about money, but who wouldn't want to be comfortable the rest of their life and have a good family and future for their kids?? I don't get it sometimes.


BPD.


----------



## happyman64

Here is my amateur diagnosis.

Selfish biotch who never had to own her sh!t because Mommy and Daddy cleaned up her messes......


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> Here is my amateur diagnosis.
> 
> Selfish biotch who never had to own her sh!t because Mommy and Daddy cleaned up her messes......


That too!:lol:


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

I wouldn't go 2 MC with her at all. She hasn't hit bottom yet (assuming she ever does - she may just bounce 2 another OM for validation), and agreeing 2 MC with her would enable her, not help her better herself.

If you do go, make sure that the MC understands you're not interested in stopping the D, that you just agreed 2 come 2 a session with her 2 help her get the help she needs. That you're fine.

Then wait for her 2 either leave a smoking hole in the ground 2 climb out of, or (equally likely) find another OM 2 prop her up for another year or 2.

-ol' 2long


----------



## SongoftheSouth

dadof2 said:


> To add a little to it, our hearing is in less than 2 weeks. My lawyer has sent me a draft of a consent agreement that spells out everything- custody, support, and a community settlement. .


In general what are the details of this - let me guess, you pay child support, alimony etc. Sh*t you paid for is community property so she is entitled to it?? Not trying to star a sh*t storm just curious how it all worked out!! Sorry for the crap you been dealt!!


----------



## honcho

They almost always affair down. The WS isn’t really looking for an equal, her own ego wants her to feel superior. She thinks she has control over the whole situation. The OM would never dump her she is such a catch, you will take her back because she is such a catch. 

WS never seem to look longer term as far as stability or anything really they just chase the excitement and the euphoria of the new relationship.


----------



## LongWalk

Go to MC. Listen. Don't say so much. Express disappointment that your marriage failed but say that you want the children to have both their parents and a good co-parenting relationship. Say that you understand your STBX wants to date other men. That is her business since you are divorcing but you do not want her introducing your children to a string of short term boyfriends.

Be polite and soft spoken.

If you WW talks about saving your marriage, ask her to spell out what that means?

If remorse is not forthcoming, then there is no possibility of reconciliation.

If she cries or breaks down, you must be unmoved, especially if you want to consider R. Your WW must be absolutely willing to come clean, for you to have any chance of a successful R.


----------



## GusPolinski

LongWalk said:


> Go to MC. Listen. Don't say so much. Express disappointment that your marriage failed but say that you want the children to have both their parents and a good co-parenting relationship. Say that you understand your STBX wants to date other men. That is her business since you are divorcing but you do not want her introducing your children to a string of short term boyfriends.
> 
> Be polite and soft spoken.
> 
> If you WW talks about saving your marriage, ask her to spell out what that means?
> 
> If remorse is not forthcoming, then there is no possibility of reconciliation.
> 
> If she cries or breaks down, you must be unmoved, especially if you want to consider R. Your WW must be absolutely willing to come clean, for you to have any chance of a successful R.


Sooo... What was her reasoning behind mentioning counseling? If she's hoping for reconciliation, then merely mentioning counseling would seem to be an über passive way of asking for it.

If you're still willing to reconcile, *make her work for it.* If you do go to counseling w/ her, it's probably OK to mention -- within the framework of counseling -- that you need to see some sort of heartfelt overture from her in order to seriously consider it.

I mean... do you want a wife or do you want an adult daughter...?!?


----------



## Nucking Futs

GusPolinski said:


> Sooo... What was her reasoning behind mentioning counseling? If she's hoping for reconciliation, then merely mentioning counseling would seem to be an über passive way of asking for it.
> 
> *If you're still willing to reconcile, make her work for it. If you do go to counseling w/ her, it's probably OK to mention -- within the framework of counseling -- that you need to see some sort of heartfelt overture from her in order to seriously consider it.*
> 
> I mean... do you want a wife or do you want an adult daughter...?!?


I agree with this with one caveat: don't be the one to bring it up. As far as you're concerned, you're in counseling to help with co-parenting after the divorce. If reconciliation is mentioned it needs to be her doing the mentioning.


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> Sooo... What was her reasoning behind mentioning counseling? If she's hoping for reconciliation, then merely mentioning counseling would seem to be an über passive way of asking for it.
> 
> If you're still willing to reconcile, *make her work for it.* If you do go to counseling w/ her, it's probably OK to mention -- within the framework of counseling -- that you need to see some sort of heartfelt overture from her in order to seriously consider it.
> 
> I mean... do you want a wife or do you want an adult daughter...?!?


Yes passive is her middle name. I'm not sure what to make of her actions the last 2 weeks. She has made more contact than she ever has, and part of me is hopeful about it. But since the serious subject of MC and things we need to discuss came up, she has been silent. I guess she was expecting me to play along with her scenario of everything is okay and we will just forget about the last 4 months. It's so disheartening to think that she may be turning the corner and then she goes silent again. One day she may actually turn the corner but it will shock her if I'm not standing there waiting to clean up the mess. 

If we do go to MC I am going to let her do the talking. There are a few things I would like to say but I want her to be in a comfortable environment. She needs to open up and be honest but that rarely happens with her, so if MC happens I will be able to tell fairly quickly if she has any remorse or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Good for Dof2.

Watch. Listen. Wait.

Because it is her action/inaction that will show you where her heart, soul and mind truly are.

Your wife is a weak minded "fool".

I wonder how you will feel about her a year from now.....

HM


----------



## GusPolinski

Nucking Futs said:


> I agree with this with one caveat: don't be the one to bring it up. As far as you're concerned, you're in counseling to help with co-parenting after the divorce. If reconciliation is mentioned it needs to be her doing the mentioning.


I'm of two minds on this one... On the one hand, you're correct -- OP shouldn't have to bring it up at all. If she wants to reconcile, she should be prepared to mature the f*ck up and explicitly say as much.

OTOH, having already agreed to attend counseling w/ her, I'd want to feel like I'd left nothing in the tank. I wouldn't want it to be a complete waste of my time, so I'd likely try to sort of set the tone. I'd feel the need to let both the counselor and my WW know exactly what it was that I needed to see in order to seriously entertain the notion of reconciliation.

This would include a frank admission of the relationship w/ OM, along w/ a discussion of as many of the details that I felt were relevant. I'd also reserve the right to continue to ask for clarification of anything that didn't make sense to me, even weeks, months (and, if necessary), years down the road.

I'd also feel the need to address the false allegations of abuse, along w/ the RO. I'd want her to admit -- on record -- that they were baseless and were used as nothing more than legal maneuvering tactics.

There is probably tons of other stuff as well, but these are the topics that readily come to mind.

Oh, and I'd have a VAR on me THE WHOLE TIME.


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

Good counsel from Gus and HappyMan. I think you are ready for this. If she doesn't book MC, don't remind her.

The question is really whether she is worth it. The answer lays within her. 

If you go into a bad R, your hassle and pain will resurface down the road.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

It could be a ploy.

She knows that you have evidence that you could use in court. She knows that if you divorce for infidelity the you could subpoena the OM and maybe others that knew about the affair.

She tells the OM we have to cool it for a while. Even parks her car at the other end of the the lot at school.

Then, she goes to counseling with. Starts doing the things for an R that you've told her she needs to do. She moves back home. You start having sex again.

Then 6 months later she tells you that it isn't working. She moves out again and files for D with no threat of being divorced for infidelity.

She may not even want to rekindle her romance with the OM. She may just want out of the marriage, but with out the added black eye that being divorced for infidelity would bring.

I of course don't know this as fact, but I think that it's a distinct possibility. She's not the same woman that you married anymore.

If you do get to the point of R and her moving back in, you'll need to protect yourself. VARs, key loggers and the lot. I'm leery of her recent overtures of her meeting you for breakfast and mentioning counseling, but I'm not in love with her, so my feelings are more objective.


----------



## dadof2

Lots of good points guys. I'm with you Gus on MC. Part of me wants to sit there silent and see what she has to say and I will know fairly quickly if she is saying the right things. The other part of me has so much to say to her and I would want to set the tone as to what I would need in order to even consider R.

I also see your point GroundPounder, and my attorney has mentioned as much. She could easily make a ploy to "attempt" R, then say "Oh well it didn't work" then she can move on with her life and clear her conscience. I hope I would be able to see that fairly quickly as well and get out before I start to buy those lines of BS.


----------



## dadof2

happyman64 said:


> Good for Dof2.
> 
> Watch. Listen. Wait.
> 
> Because it is her action/inaction that will show you where her heart, soul and mind truly are.
> 
> Your wife is a weak minded "fool".
> 
> I wonder how you will feel about her a year from now.....
> 
> HM


I know HM, and I have always appreciated your input here. It is just so hard to be patient. It has been 4 months, she knows now what she wants but she is either afraid to say it or is trying to sit on the fence as long as possible. It is time to sh*t or get off the pot.

I thought me telling her that I appreciated the recent family time but she and I need to talk about the serious issues would kickstart that, but apparently not. I know an ultimatem wouldn't do any good because she has blown right through any and all things we have agreed on in the past. But with the hearing coming up hopefully that can at least put a date on something that I can use as a "now or never" type scenario.


----------



## dadof2

helolover said:


> BPD.


Helo: I have looked into BPD a little since this all started and I do feel that STBX has quite a few of those traits. I am not making excuses for her, because even if she is, she still chose to leave the marriage. I have found a few threads on here, but info for a spouse living with someone with BPD is hard to find.


----------



## GusPolinski

Don't be so quick to write everything off to a PD. I mean, seriously... can't a stupid, self-absorbed b*tch just be a stupid, self-absorbed b*tch anymore?!?

Personally, I wouldn't care if she had BD, BPD, NPD, or even LAPD or NYPD -- she's made her choices of her own free will. Period. Address her sh*tty behavior FIRST, then go from there.

Now, having said all that... IF there are indeed underlying issues, it's OK to be willing to address them. But until she extends that olive branch, none of that sh*t matters one iota.

Maybe this is where your head is already at, and I'm just ranting. Either way, I felt that it needed to be said.


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> Don't be so quick to write everything off to a PD. I mean, seriously... can't a stupid, self-absorbed b*tch just be a stupid, self-absorbed b*tch anymore?!?
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't care if she had BD, BPD, NPD, or even LAPD or NYPD -- she's made her choices of her own free will. Period. Address her sh*tty behavior FIRST, then go from there.
> 
> Now, having said all that... IF there are indeed underlying issues, it's OK to be willing to address them. But until she extends that olive branch, none of that sh*t matters one iota.
> 
> Maybe this is where your head is already at, and I'm just ranting. Either way, I felt that it needed to be said.


Thanks Gus I needed to hear that. I am so conflicted by her actions lately. Part of me wants to just quit even thinking that there is a chance. Part of me wants to find someone new and make STBX a plan B. I know it's taboo on here but what's wrong with me basically telling her, "it's now or never, today is the day you decide." And I don't mean she decides that we stray together, but more that she decides to try to make things right. If she hesitates or back pedals, then I have my answer and I can move on with my f*cking life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> I know an ultimatum wouldn't do any good because *she has blown right through* any and all things we have agreed on in the past.


dad, do you understand what an ultimatum means? It means you tell her what will happen if she doesn't do what YOU need. It means that YOU then TAKE THE STEPS to make the consequence of the ultimatum occur.

It sounds like you keep saying what you want and she gives you lip service and does what she wants and you pout and then tell her again what you want and she gives you lip service and then...

Why should she listen to you if you never follow through with your boundaries? Have you even READ Boundaries In Marriage? It sounds like you'd benefit from it.


----------



## dadof2

turnera said:


> dad, do you understand what an ultimatum means? It means you tell her what will happen if she doesn't do what YOU need. It means that YOU then TAKE THE STEPS to make the consequence of the ultimatum occur.
> 
> It sounds like you keep saying what you want and she gives you lip service and does what she wants and you pout and then tell her again what you want and she gives you lip service and then...
> 
> Why should she listen to you if you never follow through with your boundaries? Have you even READ Boundaries In Marriage? It sounds like you'd benefit from it.


Yes I have read that book and it helped me a lot. Since we separated we haven't talked about any relationship stuff. The last boundary we set was the ground rules for our separation, which included not dating others and not filing for divorce, which she has done both. I haven't slown down the divorce process or even tried to reason with her to make her change her mind. We have been on that course for months now and the last couple of weeks she started making overtures and I let her know that I wasn't comfortable continuing until we talked about things ourselves. I think that was a healthy boundary for me.

I may be reading too much into it, but we had that discussion on Wednesday and I haven't heard from her since. I have the kids this weekend so who knows what she is up to. Maybe I should take her silence as a her way of saying that she was just trying to be amicable and continue with D and I read it as a possible chance for R?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## just got it 55

dadof2 said:


> Thanks Gus I needed to hear that. I am so conflicted by her actions lately. Part of me wants to just quit even thinking that there is a chance. Part of me wants to find someone new and make STBX a plan B. I know it's taboo on here but what's wrong with me basically telling her, "it's now or never, today is the day you decide." And I don't mean she decides that we stray together, but more that she decides to try to make things right. If she hesitates or back pedals, then I have my answer and I can move on with my f*cking life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dad this is the way many of us would approach this if R is indeed what you want

Nothing to lose in this approach.

Either way you get an answer 

Then there is always tomorrow to worry about you will have to sacrifice the infidelity cause but in the end that gains you little.

Tomorrow will for the foreseeable future will always be in doubt.
So will there be in D as you will second guess yourself for pulling the trigger on it.

Very tough call But it is yours to make.

55


----------



## jim123

dadof2 said:


> Yes I have read that book and it helped me a lot. Since we separated we haven't talked about any relationship stuff. The last boundary we set was the ground rules for our separation, which included not dating others and not filing for divorce, which she has done both. I haven't slown down the divorce process or even tried to reason with her to make her change her mind. We have been on that course for months now and the last couple of weeks she started making overtures and I let her know that I wasn't comfortable continuing until we talked about things ourselves. I think that was a healthy boundary for me.
> 
> I may be reading too much into it, but we had that discussion on Wednesday and I haven't heard from her since. I have the kids this weekend so who knows what she is up to. Maybe I should take her silence as a her way of saying that she was just trying to be amicable and continue with D and I read it as a possible chance for R?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hear is on due to being back at work. To start an R process will take it off. It will give her the chance to say she tried but it is all you. OM is then the good guy and it is the bad M take caused it The bad M is you who required an RO.


----------



## turnera

Keep the divorce going and let her EARN the right to stop it.

Actions, not words.


----------



## Chaparral

Why don't you get your pi to check her out again? See if they can find out if they are just laying low or she has another dude on the line. More info could be very beneficial.


----------



## Turin74

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*

I'm with Gus and other guys who are suggesting the "hold the fort" strategy. Pardon my French but it looks like her mind-f}™>]©¢king you more than anything else atm. 
Whatever is a soft spot in her mind, she's sane, legally capable adult person. Be it indecision, entitlement or whatever she needs to overcome it without anyone's help, by doing tangible and unambiguous actions (lifting RO would be a good start), otherwise irrespective from the reasoning, R would not be worth the trouble. If anything is good about your position Dadof2 (and you've earned) that you should not do anything, including having doubts, the ball as is clearly in her court as it could be. Summary : she doesn't do anything major on her own - R won't work. No way. 



dadof2 said:


> Thanks Gus I needed to hear that. I am so conflicted by her actions lately. Part of me wants to just quit even thinking that there is a chance. Part of me wants to find someone new and make STBX a plan B. I know it's taboo on here but what's wrong with me basically telling her, "it's now or never, today is the day you decide." And I don't mean she decides that we stray together, but more that she decides to try to make things right. If she hesitates or back pedals, then I have my answer and I can move on with my f*cking life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

You want to know what is going on in her head and heart. If you post POSOM (alone) on Cheaterville and she intercedes on his behalf, asking you to take it down, then you will know that her allegiance is still to him. If she says nothing, then it means he is not contacting her – then you can assume the affair is over.

If she mentions it but does not plead on his behalf, then you know that you are more important than he is.

I realize that I have been a broken record about CV. This is not a fixation. However, in your situation I think it is appropriate. Your WW may love you. Whether or not you reconcile with her is your business, but as you yourself have now noted in several posts, you want real remorse before you go out on a limb and risk your future.

Alternatively, just wait. If she does not take the initiative to arrange MC, then she is not trying. 

If she does not apologize profusely, then there is nothing to contemplate.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Dadof2,
> 
> You want to know what is going on in her head and heart. If you post POSOM (alone) on Cheaterville and she intercedes on his behalf, asking you to take it down, then you will know that her allegiance is still to him. If she says nothing, then it means he is not contacting her – then you can assume the affair is over.
> 
> If she mentions it but does not plead on his behalf, then you know that you are more important than he is.
> 
> I realize that I have been a broken record about CV. This is not a fixation. However, in your situation I think it is appropriate. Your WW may love you. Whether or not you reconcile with her is your business, but as you yourself have now noted in several posts, you want real remorse before you go out on a limb and risk your future.
> 
> Alternatively, just wait. If she does not take the initiative to arrange MC, then she is not trying.
> 
> If she does not apologize profusely, then there is nothing to contemplate.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## LongWalk

Back on June 1, Elegirl foresaw:



> Further, the chance of your stbxw actually having anything more than a short term fling with this guy are so small that's not even worth using one brain cell to worry about. This affair will not last, 97% of them do not.
> 
> Once she is done with the novelty of the affair she might very well realize what she has done wrong and wish she had tried to fix things with you.


This gives you an idea of just how predictable these things are.

Because TAM is weighted towards aiding BS, rather than waywards, we seldom here the accounts of women who suddenly switch back to loving their betrayed husbands. This must be an extraordinary event in someone's life. A woman is enjoying an affair with all the physiological effects of sex suddenly realizes that the affair which may or may not have come to an abrupt halt threatens to destroy their lives or at the very least cause disorder and insecurity.

The rational brain is often prisoner of liminal in matters of sexual desire, but here suddenly the power of analysis can send the emotions in the other direction. This certainly does not happen when the affair is an exit move. But some women want to reconcile. Mrs Matthias, Tears and the Latin lady (can't remember her name exactly) all want their husbands back and really worked to this end.

Children were involved in all these R attempts.

Dadof2,

Has the switch of love towards you flipped in your wife's subconscious? You want to know and you deserve to know before you make any decisions.


----------



## lordmayhem

turnera said:


> Keep the divorce going and let her EARN the right to stop it.
> 
> Actions, not words.


:iagree:

Like dropping the RO, which she has refused to do and is still making him go to court to contest it. 

Again, like my previous post, everyone's jumping the gun here about R, when all that's happened is her being civil when it comes down to it. 

MC at this point is ridiculous until there is any real effort. And the first step would be dropping that damn RO.

I believe this is all a manipulation ploy, that is all.


----------



## tom67

MC at this point is ridiculous until there is any real effort. And the first step would be dropping that damn RO.
Exactly!!!
:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

LongWalk said:


> -EDITED DOWN-
> we seldom here the accounts of women who suddenly switch back to loving their betrayed husbands. This must be an extraordinary event in someone's life. A woman is enjoying an affair with all the physiological effects of sex suddenly realizes that the affair which may or may not have come to an abrupt halt threatens to destroy their lives or at the very least cause disorder and insecurity.
> 
> The rational brain is often prisoner of liminal in matters of sexual desire, but here suddenly the power of analysis can send the emotions in the other direction. This certainly does not happen when the affair is an exit move. But some women want to reconcile. Mrs Matthias, Tears and the Latin lady (can't remember her name exactly) all want their husbands back and really worked to this end.


I agree, but I figure that many times when the WS want's to come back to the BS - It's more because they start seeing their AP for who the really are and not what they thought that they were.

My ex dumped the OM before we even finalized the D and ended up with his best friend.

Just chasing after that greener grass.


----------



## tom67

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I agree, but I figure that many times when the WS want's to come back to the BS - It's more because they start seeing their AP for who the really are and not what they thought that they were.
> 
> My ex dumped the OM before we even finalized the D and ended up with his best friend.
> 
> Just chasing after that greener grass.



Wow talk about chasing the last high so to speak.


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> Back on June 1, Elegirl foresaw:
> 
> 
> 
> This gives you an idea of just how predictable these things are.
> 
> Because TAM is weighted towards aiding BS, rather than waywards, we seldom here the accounts of women who suddenly switch back to loving their betrayed husbands. This must be an extraordinary event in someone's life. A woman is enjoying an affair with all the physiological effects of sex suddenly realizes that the affair which may or may not have come to an abrupt halt threatens to destroy their lives or at the very least cause disorder and insecurity.
> 
> The rational brain is often prisoner of liminal in matters of sexual desire, but here suddenly the power of analysis can send the emotions in the other direction. This certainly does not happen when the affair is an exit move. But some women want to reconcile. Mrs Matthias, Tears and the Latin lady (can't remember her name exactly) all want their husbands back and really worked to this end.
> 
> Children were involved in all these R attempts.
> 
> Dadof2,
> 
> Has the switch of love towards you flipped in your wife's subconscious? You want to know and you deserve to know before you make any decisions.


Thanks for the encouragement LW. I have done nothing to chase her or try to reason with her. She made contact a few weeks ago and it was nice. But then I asked her to talk with me adult to adult about our situation and she shut down. So that tells me a lot. I understand I need to stay firm and detached and I have done that. I guess my problem as a guy is that I feel it has been long enough. It is time for her to either come home or lose me forever. But all the advice I get just says "be patient and silent." I've been doing that and I've had enough. I can't do this for another 8 months!

I appreciate the good advice her today. I have had a rough one today, Sundays seem to be the worst for whatever reason. It's like therapy to come in here and talk with you guys.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

LongWalk said:


> Dadof2,
> 
> Good counsel from Gus and HappyMan. I think you are ready for this. If she doesn't book MC, don't remind her.
> 
> The question is really whether she is worth it. The answer lays within her.


and the answer at the moment is absolutely not. She needs 2 see this from do2, or she won't be able 2 accept responsibility.



> If you go into a bad R, your hassle and pain will resurface down the road.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You might stay married for the rest of your life. And if this doesn't get dealt with now, in full, you'll live with the pain for the rest of your life as well. It'll be there in the background the whole time.

-ol' 2long


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

dadof2 said:


> Lots of good points guys. I'm with you Gus on MC. Part of me wants to sit there silent and see what she has to say and I will know fairly quickly if she is saying the right things. The other part of me has so much to say to her and I would want to set the tone as to what I would need in order to even consider R.
> 
> I also see your point GroundPounder, and my attorney has mentioned as much. She could easily make a ploy to "attempt" R, then say "Oh well it didn't work" then she can move on with her life and clear her conscience. I hope I would be able to see that fairly quickly as well and get out before I start to buy those lines of BS.


This is where detached objectivity comes in handy. There's nothing for you 2 see, do2.She hasn't made this ploy, and if she doesn't start from square one with full-frontal remorse, you will know the ploy is coming next, if anything is. Don't settle for kibbles. She'll string you along and get your hopes up. 

This is why I don't recommend going 2 MC. It's a waste of time and money if she isn't sincerely remorseful. And agreeing 2 go just gives her the permission she needs 2 not be truly remorseful.

You're not living 2gether. You hardly communicate. Why not invite the girl behind the checkout counter of your local supermarket 2 go 2 MC with you. It makes almost as much sense (and will be as fruitful, maybe more so).

-ol' 2long


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

dadof2 said:


> I know HM, and I have always appreciated your input here. It is just so hard to be patient. It has been 4 months, she knows now what she wants but she is either afraid to say it or is trying to sit on the fence as long as possible. It is time to sh*t or get off the pot.
> 
> I thought me telling her that I appreciated the recent family time but she and I need to talk about the serious issues would kickstart that, but apparently not. I know an ultimatem wouldn't do any good because she has blown right through any and all things we have agreed on in the past. But with the hearing coming up hopefully that can at least put a date on something that I can use as a "now or never" type scenario.


IMHO, you've done all that you could, and more than you should. Leave the ball in her court. Let her feel the impending court date without any encouragement from you that she can put off growing the hell up.

Ultimatums are only ineffective if you have no real intention of following through. Don't make threats. Just do what you need 2 do, and let her make her own decisions. Good or bad. For her choice 2 recover (if she makes it) 2 have any value 2 you, she needs 2 make it all on her own - not as some sort of give and take trading between you 2 in order for her 2 stay up on the fence shoving cake down her throat.

-ol' 2long


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

dadof2 said:


> TIt is time for her to either come home or lose me forever.


I think you know as well as we do that it is NOT time for her 2 come home. She isn't ready 2 do what you need yet. And... 



> But all the advice I get just says "be patient and silent." I've been doing that and I've had enough. I can't do this for another 8 months!


Believe me, we know what you mean. That's why remorse and timing are important. Because when you really HAVE had enough, no amount of remorse will make you want her back. 

Think about it.

-ol' 2long


----------



## barbados

What the hell is all this talk of possible R all the sudden. OMG ! Is Dadof 2 going to become the next Road Scholar ?? A guy doing all the right things at the hardest time in his life only to cave right at the end ?

BTW, even Road Scholar's WW didn't do half of what your POSWW has done to you.


For God sakes DAD, stop this nonsense, proceed with the D and the hard line like you have been doing, and look back on this time months or years from now with your dignity intact that you stayed strong.


----------



## tryingpatience

As a fixer it's hard to let things take their true course. But that could be what gets us in the mess we're in, in the first place. You'll have to let her do the fixing now and it might be scary to think that she may not have it in her to fix.
If she does have it in her than it can work and you'll know her commitment to you. Otherwise her being on the fence puts you back into limbo and we all know what kind of hell that is.


----------



## Finder

I don't understand. Why are you willing to do anything to make your marriage work when she's acting so stupid and selfish.


----------



## thatbpguy

In reviewing your story, I am curious as to why you'd be so willing to jump into R. You seem to be Plan B in her life and her actions have been disgusting.

I mean, sometimes R is very appropriate and makes sense, but my sense here is that it is a waste of time.


----------



## dadof2

I spoke with my attorney this morning. Our hearing is one week out, and she is finalizing our consent agreement to send to STBX's side. My lawyer mentioned a couple things: If both sides agree to the consent agreement, then we do not need to be present at the hearing. Also, the RO in effect was a temporary RO and it will expire as of the hearing date. I believe STBX will need to show cause as to why it should be extended, and she has no evidence. But I am not 100% sure it will go away, because she didn't have any evidence to get the TRO in the first place...


----------



## SamuraiJack

Well DO2...I read the whole thing.

You have done very well. 
All of the pieces are on the board now and there is nothing left to do but play it out to it's natural conclusion.

EVERYONE on the board knows the role they must play and their possible moves.

You have most likely done the calculations in your head and you know where everything is most likely to end up.

You can do nothing now but watch.

BUT...you can do so knowing that you gave it your absolute best shot.
Thats something to be proud of.


----------



## dadof2

SamuraiJack said:


> Well DO2...I read the whole thing.
> 
> You have done very well.
> All of the pieces are on the board now and there is nothing left to do but *play it out to it's natural conclusion.*
> 
> EVERYONE on the board knows the role they must play and their possible moves.
> 
> You have most likely done the calculations in your head and you know where everything is most likely to end up.
> 
> You can do nothing now but watch.
> 
> BUT...you can do so knowing that you gave it your absolute best shot.
> Thats something to be proud of.


Thanks for the post. I just signed off on my consent agreement that we are sending to STBX tomorrow. It covers everything but Community Property, and we hope to have that hammered out by Friday to send as well. My attorney wanted to send the other docs by tomorrow to give her side enough advance time to review it before our hearing next week.

As far as letting things run its course, my attorney suggested something she could do if I really wanted to feel like I did everything I could. She said she could call the other attorney tomorrow and let him know we are sending our agreement for their review/signature. She said during that conversation she could tell the attorney that I did not want to be in this position, but I am prepared to get it over with as quickly as possible. She would say that if his client (STBX) has any hope for an attemp at R, she needs to make the move and it needs to be done before the hearing. Any inaction by her will allow my (me) client to assume the marriage is over.

I am not sure if we should do this or not. On one hand it seems like it will be an eye opener that its really over, but it may make me look like I keep redrawing the line in the sand. I am prepared for it to be over if she doesn't show any remorse by next week, but I am just wondering how their side would take that conversation. Part of me says I've done enough and she has to meet me halfway. Last week I was encouraged when the subject of MC was brought up, but it has been nothing but silence on her end since that conversation.

Thoughts?


----------



## turnera

If she won't pursue you after the divorce, you don't need her.

And if she really wanted you, you'd know by now.


----------



## tryingpatience

dadof2 said:


> I am not sure if we should do this or not. On one hand it seems like it will be an eye opener that its really over, but it may make me look like I keep redrawing the line in the sand. I am prepared for it to be over if she doesn't show any remorse by next week, but I am just wondering how their side would take that conversation. Part of me says I've done enough and she has to meet me halfway. Last week I was encouraged when the subject of MC was brought up, but it has been nothing but silence on her end since that conversation.
> 
> Thoughts?


I for one think that you moving forward is enough of an indication. If that isn't opening her eyes I don't think that last jab will. Also the silence should tell you something. You do know her well after all.


----------



## bfree

You might still love her but after everything she's done can you ever trust her again? How do you know she won't R with you now just to get herself into a better position to leave you at a later date.


----------



## happyman64

> which included not dating others and not filing for divorce, which she has done both.


Dof2

Look at your words above. Remember she lied to get a RO against you.

Then think of her silence towards you since your family outing.

Your wife has no problem making decisions without your consideration. In fact she has made decisions that hAve been hurtful towards you.

Just look at the way she left you.

So I will say it to you again. Patience.

You need to be the rock right now.

Frankly I am finding it hard to she why you love her so much.

Because your STBXW is not only selfish but cruel.

HM


----------



## dadof2

bfree said:


> You might still love her but after everything she's done can you ever trust her again? How do you know *she won't R with you now just to get herself into a better position to leave you at a later date*.


This seems like a big possibility


----------



## bigfoot

You know that Hope is really a horrible beautiful b-i-t-c-h. I have read your thread, and maybe even posted a few times, and I get it. You love your STBXW. 

At the risk of sounding like an ass, let me say the following: You, sir, are like an alcoholic about to go into rehab and are trying to have one last big party at the bar to see if you really want to give up the booze. You have been sneaking a few drinks and have felt pretty good, so you figure that you can hold your liquor and things will be different this time. Please stop. 

Look at the history, the recent history, the major issue and realize that you need to see this through to the end. 

Hope and love will really serve you well with a proper partner, but will lead you to destruction if unchecked. It is hard, it is your life, it is scary, but it is also so abundantly clear that you need to get out. No more drinks. 

Once you can appreciate and enjoy life without her then and only then should you consider revisiting the possibility of life with her. Good luck to you, whatever you decide.


----------



## LongWalk

dadof2 said:


> As far as letting things run its course, my attorney suggested something she could do if I really wanted to feel like I did everything I could. She said she could call the other attorney tomorrow and let him know we are sending our agreement for their review/signature. She said during that conversation she could tell the attorney that I did not want to be in this position, but I am prepared to get it over with as quickly as possible. She would say that if his client (STBX) has any hope for an attemp at R, she needs to make the move and it needs to be done before the hearing. Any inaction by her will allow my (me) client to assume the marriage is over.
> 
> I am not sure if we should do this or not. On one hand it seems like it will be an eye opener that its really over, but it may make me look like I keep redrawing the line in the sand. I am prepared for it to be over if she doesn't show any remorse by next week, but I am just wondering how their side would take that conversation. Part of me says I've done enough and she has to meet me halfway. Last week I was encouraged when the subject of MC was brought up, but it has been nothing but silence on her end since that conversation.
> 
> Thoughts?


Your question is a good one. What it all comes down to is that it is possible that she sits at the kitchen table of her lonely apartment and wishes that you would give her a sign that you will forgive her. She may long to jump into your arms and say that she is sorry; she went crazy but now she's got it out of her system. Is she just a shy girl waiting to be asked to dance?

Possibly, but she is also an adult with life experience. She has asked you for all sorts of things during your time together. You have seen her sitting on the toilet peeing. Intimacy is there. So, really she ought to be able to open her mouth if she wants to reconcile.

Happyman and Turnera are right. She has a long way to go and you would see it if she were making an effort.

Perhaps once the divorce is more of a reality she will want to stop it. My suggestion is to not be the first one to raise the possibility of R. You certainly don't want to talk her into returning if she ain't really gung-ho.

Is she good at reading you?

What do you know about POSOM now? Do you think that he dumped your WW and she is hoping to get him back? Are they planning a future together?

If you don't like the idea of him being step dad to you kids, what can you do about it?


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Your question is a good one. What it all comes down to is that it is possible that she sits at the kitchen table of her lonely apartment and wishes that you would give her a sign that you will forgive her. She may long to jump into your arms and say that she is sorry; she went crazy but now she's got it out of her system. Is she just a shy girl waiting to be asked to dance?
> 
> Possibly, but she is also an adult with life experience. She has asked you for all sorts of things during your time together. You have seen her sitting on the toilet peeing. Intimacy is there. So, really she ought to be able to open her mouth if she wants to reconcile.
> 
> Happyman and Turnera are right. She has a long way to go and you would see it if she were making an effort.
> 
> Perhaps once the divorce is more of a reality she will want to stop it. My suggestion is to not be the first one to raise the possibility of R. You certainly don't want to talk her into returning if she ain't really gung-ho.
> 
> Is she good at reading you?


:iagree:
It has to be her to bring it up.
And to do the heavy lifting like ic and rehab.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for the post. I just signed off on my consent agreement that we are sending to STBX tomorrow. It covers everything but Community Property, and we hope to have that hammered out by Friday to send as well. My attorney wanted to send the other docs by tomorrow to give her side enough advance time to review it before our hearing next week.
> 
> As far as letting things run its course, my attorney suggested something she could do if I really wanted to feel like I did everything I could. She said she could call the other attorney tomorrow and let him know we are sending our agreement for their review/signature. She said during that conversation she could tell the attorney that I did not want to be in this position, but I am prepared to get it over with as quickly as possible. She would say that if his client (STBX) has any hope for an attemp at R, she needs to make the move and it needs to be done before the hearing. Any inaction by her will allow my (me) client to assume the marriage is over.
> 
> I am not sure if we should do this or not. On one hand it seems like it will be an eye opener that its really over, but it may make me look like I keep redrawing the line in the sand. I am prepared for it to be over if she doesn't show any remorse by next week, but I am just wondering how their side would take that conversation. Part of me says I've done enough and she has to meet me halfway. Last week I was encouraged when the subject of MC was brought up, but it has been nothing but silence on her end since that conversation.
> 
> Thoughts?


Yeah, don't do it.

-ol' 2long


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for the post. I just signed off on my consent agreement that we are sending to STBX tomorrow. It covers everything but Community Property, and we hope to have that hammered out by Friday to send as well. My attorney wanted to send the other docs by tomorrow to give her side enough advance time to review it before our hearing next week.
> 
> As far as letting things run its course, my attorney suggested something she could do if I really wanted to feel like I did everything I could. She said she could call the other attorney tomorrow and let him know we are sending our agreement for their review/signature. She said during that conversation she could tell the attorney that I did not want to be in this position, but I am prepared to get it over with as quickly as possible. She would say that if his client (STBX) has any hope for an attemp at R, she needs to make the move and it needs to be done before the hearing. Any inaction by her will allow my (me) client to assume the marriage is over.
> 
> I am not sure if we should do this or not. On one hand it seems like it will be an eye opener that its really over, but it may make me look like I keep redrawing the line in the sand. I am prepared for it to be over if she doesn't show any remorse by next week, but I am just wondering how their side would take that conversation. Part of me says I've done enough and she has to meet me halfway. Last week I was encouraged when the subject of MC was brought up, but it has been nothing but silence on her end since that conversation.
> 
> Thoughts?


I don't see why not to do it.

You are not the offender. And besides, in this case, genuine R seems pretty far fetched.


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> Your question is a good one. What it all comes down to is that it is possible that she sits at the kitchen table of her lonely apartment and wishes that you would give her a sign that you will forgive her. She may long to jump into your arms and say that she is sorry; she went crazy but now she's got it out of her system. Is she just a shy girl waiting to be asked to dance?
> 
> Possibly, but she is also an adult with life experience. She has asked you for all sorts of things during your time together. You have seen her sitting on the toilet peeing. Intimacy is there. So, really she ought to be able to open her mouth if she wants to reconcile.
> 
> Happyman and Turnera are right. She has a long way to go and you would see it if she were making an effort.
> 
> Perhaps once the divorce is more of a reality she will want to stop it. My suggestion is to not be the first one to raise the possibility of R. You certainly don't want to talk her into returning if she ain't really gung-ho.
> 
> Is she good at reading you?


Wow great posts Bigfoot and LW. And you guys are right. It is just so hard because deep down I do love her. I just can't believe this is happening, it is not where I saw my life headed. I can't believe that she is actually going through with it, I guess I had hope after a few friendly meetings that things may get better. But you are right, if I step back and see what she has done it should be a no brainer. But that pesky heart of mine still has weak moments. Love and hope can definitely be a b*itch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BobSimmons

dadof2 said:


> Wow great posts Bigfoot and LW. And you guys are right. It is just so hard because deep down I do love her. *I just can't believe this is happening*, it is not where I saw my life headed. *I can't believe* that she is actually going through with it, I guess* I had hope* after a few friendly meetings that things may get better. But you are right, if I step back and see what she has done it should be a no brainer. But that pesky heart of mine still has weak moments. Love and hope can definitely be a b*itch.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


and that is your problem in a nutshell. Refusing to see what is in front of you and dealing with the situation effectively. If at this point you still can't believe this is happening and that she would do this to you, then it shows you never really had a chance.


----------



## honcho

dadof2 said:


> I spoke with my attorney this morning. Our hearing is one week out, and she is finalizing our consent agreement to send to STBX's side. My lawyer mentioned a couple things: If both sides agree to the consent agreement, then we do not need to be present at the hearing. Also, the RO in effect was a temporary RO and it will expire as of the hearing date. I believe STBX will need to show cause as to why it should be extended, and she has no evidence. But I am not 100% sure it will go away, because she didn't have any evidence to get the TRO in the first place...


She needs to file paperwork to have it officially dismissed before the hearing otherwise the RO hearing must happen. If you are not present she needs no evidence, the RO becomes permanent or the judge can set up a date in the future for it to expire. The RO hearing while its lumped into your divorce hearing is a completely seperate matter from divorce. 

If you show up and she doesnt and her atty presents no evidence most times it just gets dismissed. You dont show up and its automatic guilt.


----------



## honcho

dadof2 said:


> As far as letting things run its course, my attorney suggested something she could do if I really wanted to feel like I did everything I could. She said she could call the other attorney tomorrow and let him know we are sending our agreement for their review/signature. She said during that conversation she could tell the attorney that I did not want to be in this position, but I am prepared to get it over with as quickly as possible. She would say that if his client (STBX) has any hope for an attemp at R, she needs to make the move and it needs to be done before the hearing. Any inaction by her will allow my (me) client to assume the marriage is over.
> 
> I am not sure if we should do this or not. On one hand it seems like it will be an eye opener that its really over, but it may make me look like I keep redrawing the line in the sand. I am prepared for it to be over if she doesn't show any remorse by next week, but I am just wondering how their side would take that conversation. Part of me says I've done enough and she has to meet me halfway. Last week I was encouraged when the subject of MC was brought up, but it has been nothing but silence on her end since that conversation.
> 
> Thoughts?


I would not have your attorney say anything about any possible R or last minute thoughts. You already made this clear to her last week and its looks like your trying to pressure her. You already know she doesnt make the best decisions under pressure. Let your settlement offer/your actions speak.

Also your paying your lawyer to get divorced, not fix your marriage and most lawyers are the worst at trying to play marriage counselor. They know how to do divorce, that is there job. Your also bringing more players into and you have no idea how or what her attorney will say to her, her attorney could very well play the whole possible R talk into a completely different direction. You have no idea how slimy some of these "legal experts" can be. 

She has to take the step on her own.


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

I am rooting for you to have the choice that you desire.

What intelligence do you have from her work place? What is POSOM up to?

Do you believe he has dumped your WW?

How do you feel about the notion that he could be a step parent to your DNA?

If you wife still loves you, you need to keep up the decisive alpha male mode.


----------



## sandc

You have a good heart DO2. But if she won't meet you half way then there is no way to be in a marriage with her. You can't do 90% of the relationship work and call it a marriage. Turnera hit thei nail on the head in her post. 

My opinion is that you should assume this is over and done. She's had plenty of opportunity to drop the RO and reach out to you. She isn't doing that. She's hoping that her VP will come back to her and everything will be fine once she is divorced. The only reason she is reaching out to you at all is that she's not sure he's coming back. Just keep a steady pace going towards divorce. If she tries to stop it, then you can pause and rethink. But that's not going to happen.

I know you love her. And you always can. But you don't need her. You're getting along without her. There will be someone in your life soon that will make you feel better than you have in years. Trust me. This story plays out the same on TAM again and again. There is a happily ever after for you.


----------



## LongWalk

Sandc,

How do you know about the OM? There relationship seemed to cool or was that just careful image management by the WW and asst principal?


----------



## dadof2

honcho said:


> I would not have your attorney say anything about any possible R or last minute thoughts. You already made this clear to her last week and its looks like your trying to pressure her. You already know she doesnt make the best decisions under pressure. Let your settlement offer/your actions speak.
> 
> Also your paying your lawyer to get divorced, not fix your marriage and most lawyers are the worst at trying to play marriage counselor. They know how to do divorce, that is there job. Your also bringing more players into and you have no idea how or what her attorney will say to her, her attorney could very well play the whole possible R talk into a completely different direction. You have no idea how slimy some of these "legal experts" can be.
> 
> She has to take the step on her own.


You are right. I have thought about that all afternoon and I don't think it's a good idea to have my lawyer play marriage counselor. She will still contact her attorney tomorrow but just to let him know that we are sending out agreement for their review.

A funny thing happened a little while ago. STBX has the kids and it's our sons first day of preschool. She was going to take him to daycare and then let the bus bring him to school. It's his first day and I really wanted to take him myself but it's not my time to have him. STBX just called me and asked if I would like to drive him to school I'm the morning. I said sure so she is going to drop him off at my house on her way to work so I can bring him for his first day of school. Very excited for that daddy duty!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> Dadof2,
> 
> I am rooting for you to have the choice that you desire.
> 
> What intelligence do you have from her work place? What is POSOM up to?
> 
> Do you believe he has dumped your WW?
> 
> How do you feel about the notion that he could be a step parent to your DNA?
> 
> If you wife still loves you, you need to keep up the decisive alpha male mode.


I don't know anything for sure as far as om and STBX at the workplace. I don't have any evidence of them spending any time together outside of school since school started.

As far as him being a step dad to my kids, that's honestly what's driving everything I do. I can't stand the thought of only being in my childrens lives half the time. 

Sandc- thanks for the post. I am trying to get to that point. My head knows that's where I need to be, but I am still working on getting my heart to come around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

LongWalk said:


> Sandc,
> 
> How do you know about the OM? There relationship seemed to cool or was that just careful image management by the WW and asst principal?


I don't really 'know'. It's just a gut feeling given what DO2 has described. Just trying to make sense of her actions.


----------



## LongWalk

dadof2 said:


> I don't know anything for sure as far as om and STBX at the workplace. I don't have any evidence of them spending any time together outside of school since school started.
> 
> *As far as him being a step dad to my kids, that's honestly what's driving everything I do. I can't stand the thought of only being in my childrens lives half the time. *
> 
> Sandc- thanks for the post. I am trying to get to that point. My head knows that's where I need to be, but I am still working on getting my heart to come around.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, you know how to kill off his libido.


----------



## sandc

LongWalk said:


> Well, you know how to kill off his libido.


Give them lots of sugary snacks before you send them home.


----------



## happyman64

Dof2

What has she done for you lately? Nothing?

Actions speak louder than words.

Tomorrow will be interesting.

Keep your radar on and have fun with your boy.

HM (Father of 3. 3 girls that is).


----------



## GusPolinski

sandc said:


> Give them lots of sugary snacks before you send them home.


I'm thinking concentrated grape juice.

_*Intravenously.*_

:smthumbup:


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> You are right. I have thought about that all afternoon and I don't think it's a good idea to have my lawyer play marriage counselor. She will still contact her attorney tomorrow but just to let him know that we are sending out agreement for their review.
> 
> A funny thing happened a little while ago. STBX has the kids and it's our sons first day of preschool. She was going to take him to daycare and then let the bus bring him to school. It's his first day and I really wanted to take him myself but it's not my time to have him. STBX just called me and asked if I would like to drive him to school I'm the morning. I said sure so she is going to drop him off at my house on her way to work so I can bring him for his first day of school. Very excited for that daddy duty!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not to be harsh, but this sounds like either a bone she's throwing you for the way she treated you, or, putting herself in a good light. It just doesn't seem totally genuine.


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

There are various possible reasons for her slight attitude change:

1) The situation at work is sensitive for them and she is trying to keep you quiet;

2) Her relationship with him is over and she is looking for a job as a cake eater at her old marriage;

3) She is trying to keep her options open.

But regardless, remember that exposure is the one action you have taken that has made an impression on her.


----------



## warlock07

> I guess I had hope after a few friendly meetings that things may get better.


Yeah, we could see that in spite of you saying otherwise.


----------



## Chaparral

When she talked about marriage counseling, was it clear who was supposed to set it up? I find it odd it was brought up by her and nothing happened. I'm wondering if she thought you should find a counselor you liked.

Of course many things could have happened that changed her mind too.

I don't think it would hurt to ask her if she changed her mind on the counseling.


----------



## SamuraiJack

I feel for you...I really do.
The thing that helped me was to play back the entire episode without a soundtrack. Just telling the story by her actions was enough to get me clear.

Maybe the same will work for you.


----------



## dadof2

Chaparral said:


> When she talked about marriage counseling, was it clear who was supposed to set it up? I find it odd it was brought up by her and nothing happened. I'm wondering if she thought you should find a counselor you liked.
> 
> Of course many things could have happened that changed her mind too.
> 
> I don't think it would hurt to ask her if she changed her mind on the counseling.


I thought about that but I think I made it clear that the ball was in her court. She has had no problem making major decisions to break up our family so I'm not gonna drag her into it.

She should be getting my consent agreement anyday now, but I don't expect much to change once she sees it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Has your source of intelligence at the school gone silent?


----------



## bandit.45

Don't take anything she does too much to heart.


----------



## SF-FAN

dadof2 said:


> You are right. I have thought about that all afternoon and I don't think it's a good idea to have my lawyer play marriage counselor. She will still contact her attorney tomorrow but just to let him know that we are sending out agreement for their review.
> 
> A funny thing happened a little while ago. STBX has the kids and it's our sons first day of preschool. She was going to take him to daycare and then let the bus bring him to school. It's his first day and I really wanted to take him myself but it's not my time to have him. STBX just called me and asked if I would like to drive him to school I'm the morning. I said sure so she is going to drop him off at my house on her way to work so I can bring him for his first day of school. Very excited for that daddy duty!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





dadof2 said:


> I don't know anything for sure as far as om and STBX at the workplace. I don't have any evidence of them spending any time together outside of school since school started.
> 
> As far as him being a step dad to my kids, that's honestly what's driving everything I do. I can't stand the thought of only being in my childrens lives half the time.
> 
> Sandc- thanks for the post. I am trying to get to that point. My head knows that's where I need to be, but I am still working on getting my heart to come around.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


DD2, you and I have very similar feelings and are in very similar situations. When my WW shows warmth towards me, I wonder if it's her way of reaching out and possibly realizing she did wrong but then like a switch she goes back to being cold. It's a bit disheartening. Will she every change? I don't know but until she does a complete 180 and goes above and beyond to show me she's willing to do everything to make our marriage work, I don't want to be in a relationship with a person like her.

I also can't stand the thought of any other man (let alone POSOM) being my kids' step-dad. That makes me angry to no end and I don't care if that's what happens after a couple separates, I don't like it and will never like it. My kids should not have to deal with another man in their lives because of my WW's poor boundaries and lack of morals.


----------



## dadof2

SF-FAN said:


> DD2, you and I have very similar feelings and are in very similar situations. When my WW shows warmth towards me, I wonder if it's her way of reaching out and possibly realizing she did wrong but then like a switch she goes back to being cold. It's a bit disheartening. Will she every change? I don't know but until she does a complete 180 and goes above and beyond to show me she's willing to do everything to make our marriage work, I don't want to be in a relationship with a person like her.
> 
> I also can't stand the thought of any other man (let alone POSOM) being my kids' step-dad. That makes me angry to no end and I don't care if that's what happens after a couple separates, I don't like it and will never like it. My kids should not have to deal with another man in their lives because of my WW's poor boundaries and lack of morals.


Wow I wish I could like that a million times. You hit it on the head from STBX's actions to the kid angle. Man this sucks!


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2,

Can't remember but has your WW ever acknowledged that her AP has come under pressure as the result of exposure?


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> Dof2,
> 
> Can't remember but has your WW ever acknowledged that her AP has come under pressure as the result of exposure?


She has never said anything to me about it. At a meeting with our attorneys a few weeks back we were discussing the RO. Her attorney said she is scared that I will make trouble for her at her job. I had not said or done anything to threaten her job, so that makes me think that OM may have been called in at some point. I have confirmed that the afternoon workout sessions on school property are not going on this year.


----------



## the guy

dadof2 said:


> I have confirmed that the afternoon workout sessions on school property are not going on this year.


I bet that pissed off a few horny teachers


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> She has never said anything to me about it. At a meeting with our attorneys a few weeks back we were discussing the RO. Her attorney said she is scared that I will make trouble for her at her job. I had not said or done anything to threaten her job, so that makes me think that OM may have been called in at some point. I have confirmed that the afternoon workout sessions on school property are not going on this year.


Hmm.
Interesting news.


----------



## Dyokemm

"My kids should not have to deal with another man in their lives because of my WW's poor boundaries and lack of morals."

I dated a girl for several years who had 2 wonderful boys from her previous relationship.

Her bf had been deported to Mexico, and was out of the picture for a couple years, though he called the boys regularly. He and I talked several times and got along...he appreciated that I would take his boys out hiking and boating all the time.

I loved those kids, and still take them out to do outdoor activities once in awhile, even though their mother and I are just friends now.

I think if you split from your WW, you got to hope she is smart enough and a good enough mother to only have decent guys around your kids.

And based on that, I agree with you guys....a POSOM should NEVER be around the children whose lives and family he helped destroy.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2, check this out.


----------



## LongWalk

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingpatience 
I'm interested to hear what those who have been through R have to say and even what WS have to say.
Here goes...

Honestly the answers to each of these questions is highly situational. Having said that, I'll answer based on (a) my understanding of your current situation and (b) an assumption that you're considering reconciliation w/ your WW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingpatience 
Does a WS need to do all the heavy lifting in order for reconciliation to work?
Perhaps not all, but definitely most. There will be plenty of heavy lifting for the both of you, but don't let your WW gaslight you into thinking that more of it is rightfully placed on your shoulders than could be considered realistic or fair by an impartial and unbiased third party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingpatience 
Can a WS truly be remorseful without taking those first steps towards doing whatever is required?
Hard to say, though I'm inclined to say "No". If she can't manage to do what's necessary to break through her own stubbornness, pride, or whatever in order to humble herself to the point where she is willing to ask you for reconciliation, then her heart probably wouldn't be in it. Which leads us to your next question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingpatience 
Must they always initiate the reconciliation in order to be sure that it is genuine?
Honestly, I feel that, if you take that first step for her, it may do little more than set the mood, tone, or whatever for your entire reconciliation... i.e. you leading and her following. Some people may feel that, since you're the husband, this is the natural order of things, and I guess that there is some validity to that, but do you want a wife and partner, or do you want an adult daughter?

I can understand that you may feel a strong desire to do this so that you can truly say that you did everything in your power to keep your family together, but don't jump into this w/o taking certain things into account, namely you knowledge of your wife's emotional makeup, maturity, etc, and they tend to impact the dynamics of your relationship. Do what you feel is right. 

Remember this, though... If you take that first step for her, you need to let her know -- through both words and actions -- that she's not off the hook for anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingpatience 
Can they be shown what is needed to reconcile?
Despite everything that I've already typed out above, I truly do believe that some WS's (and BS's, too, for that matter) are just completely f*cking clueless and have no idea whatsoever w/ respect to how to proceed w/ a proper reconciliation. This probably leads to far more of what would be properly labeled as rugsweeping than actual reconciliation.

So... yes, I'd say that TONS of WS's (and, again, BS's as well) absolutely need to be shown what's necessary for a proper reconciliation to occur.

Mrs. Gus fell into this category... I had to take her hand and pretty much pull her through it. But that's her personality, and this has always been a key dynamic in our relationship. She may b*tch, whine, and moan at times, but she's still more than happy for me to make the lion's share of decisions on most major things. Don't get me wrong... I do value her input, but sometimes a decision just has to be made. Which is better... an active mistake or a passive mistake? I'll take the active mistake every time, especially since all you learn from passive mistakes is that you should have done SOMETHING.

Anyway, I'm getting off topic a bit, but I'll say this... though I've been aggravated at times that I've had to pretty much lead my wife (and blind!) through our reconciliation... every. single. damn. step. of. the. way... it was always easy for me to see that her heart was always in it, and that she was 111.11% committed to it. That's obviously the most important factor in a reconciliation.

This was probably less helpful to you than I'd intended it to be. Sorry. Either way, lots of food for thought in there... at least I think so.

Oh... and dadof2... I'm talking to you w/ all of ^this as well.


----------



## dadof2

Wow, thanks so much Gus.

I have a lot of those same questions, and you hit the nail on the head with your answers.

With STBX making small overtures, I realize that right now that's all she can do. That is her personality. She needs to do a lot more, but I do realize that its no small thing for her to be doing this. Obviously there is a lot of heavy lifting to do, so I don't have much faith that she will be able to do it.

Last night she asked me if I would like to go to our nieces' (her sisters twins) birthday party with her and the kids this weekend. I told her I would think about it, but I don't really feel comfortable going but I appreciate the offer.


----------



## bandit.45

What did she say about the affidavit your lawyer filed claiming adultery.


----------



## tom67

Tell her you would love to but your attorney advised you not to because of the restraining order you have on me but have a nice time.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Wow, thanks so much Gus.
> 
> I have a lot of those same questions, and you hit the nail on the head with your answers.
> 
> With STBX making small overtures, I realize that right now that's all she can do. That is her personality. She needs to do a lot more, but I do realize that its no small thing for her to be doing this. Obviously there is a lot of heavy lifting to do, so I don't have much faith that she will be able to do it.
> 
> Last night she asked me if I would like to go to our nieces' (her sisters twins) birthday party with her and the kids this weekend. I told her I would think about it, but I don't really feel comfortable going but I appreciate the offer.


In as calm a demeanor as you can muster...

"Look, you're really confusing me here. You cheated. You left. You lied to your family and probably everyone that we know in order to make me out to be some sort of abusive, clingy, needy monster.

You filed for divorce, and then decided to 'honor' me w/ the baseless indignity of a restraining order in order to ensure that (a) I'd stay out of your way, leaving you free to pursue OM as a part-time parent during the summer or (b) if I did call you, show up at your parents' house, or wherever else I thought you might be in order to talk some sense into you for the sake of saving our family, you'd be able to use those attempts at reasoning w/ you against me in court.

The first time that you even mentioned reconciliation was in the days after I told your parents what you'd actually been doing, and the day after that, you were at the zoo w/ HIS children. It's as if, despite your words regarding reconciliation, you were (and maybe even still are) actively prepping our children for the notion that they'll soon have a new step-parent.

I'd like to be able to look back at all of this in a year, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, WHATEVER... and tell myself and our children that I did everything that I could to save our marriage and family. But the simple and undeniable truth of all of this is this... _it is YOU that brought all of this sh*t into our lives._ Because of this, if you truly do want to reconcile, I really need to see you taking a much more active role in repairing the damage that your behavior has wrought.

Ever since I rebuffed what seems to have been your half-hearted offer of reconciliation, the most that I've seen from you has been one lukewarm gesture of semi-regret after another. You mentioned marriage counseling a couple of weeks ago... and then nothing. You want to have family breakfasts, go to family events, do this, do that... as if nothing ever happened. And all the while, our marriage and family is slowly being dissolved why we dump piles of money into our lawyers' pockets.

Like I said, if you want this to work, I really need to see something from you here. No more roundabout talk or half-measures. Push aside your pride or whatever it is that's keeping you from committing to a decision either way.

Consider this an olive branch of sorts... I am open to the reconciliation of our marriage.

Know this, though... There will be no rugsweeping of anything. If we reconcile, we're going all in. *EVERYTHING* must be aired out in the open. Marriage counseling, individual counseling, whatever it takes to get to the root of all of this. I won't tell our children that we're getting back together -- giving them hope that our family could once again be whole -- just for this to happen again in another year, 5 years, 10 years, or whatever.

I have taken the first step, and the ball is in your court now, so to speak. I await your response."


----------



## dadof2

She has been mum on anything involving the OM. I think she realizes that I am willing to walk unless she starts doing some major retreating. She texted me this morning that she made an appointment with a MC and that she got a substitute teacher to watch her class that day.

I am going to tell her tonight that I'm not comfortable going to the bday party. There is still an RO for Christ's sake! Her sister has been great to me all along so I will call her personally the day before and let her know I'm not coming. I just can't go to something like that and be around her family and act like nothing is wrong.


----------



## sandc

dadof2 said:


> Wow, thanks so much Gus.
> 
> I have a lot of those same questions, and you hit the nail on the head with your answers.
> 
> With STBX making small overtures, I realize that right now that's all she can do. That is her personality. She needs to do a lot more, but I do realize that its no small thing for her to be doing this. Obviously there is a lot of heavy lifting to do, so I don't have much faith that she will be able to do it.
> 
> Last night she asked me if I would like to go to our nieces' (her sisters twins) birthday party with her and the kids this weekend. I told her I would think about it, but I don't really feel comfortable going but I appreciate the offer.


What about the restraining order? Does it allow for her to invite you to parties? Every time she asks you to meet, you need to remember that RO and you need to remind her you can't because SHE took out a RO against you.

Edit: Never mind, I see you've changed your mind on that. Good!

Ultimately, people will do what they truly want to do. If she WANTS you back, she do what it takes to get you back no matter what her personality is. It may be that you've always been more "into" her than she has been into you and so you've just always perceived her as having this personality.

A woman who wanted to make amends with her husband would drop the restraining order, apologize for the RO and the affair, enroll herself into IC, ask if you both could go to MC, she would be apologizing over and over. Anyone would do that for anyone they truly loved. To be brutally honest it appears as though this was an exit affair that may or may not have fizzled.


----------



## 1812overture

Restraining orders confuse me, and I think there's some sort of key date or hearing coming up -- 

Have you considered telling her to, prior to the hearing or whatever, get that RO lifted? I don't know how or if that can be done, but it will do several things. 
-Give her a chance to do SOMETHING that you can attach value to
-Make her acknowledge it was wrong (which may have the added value of showing a lack of sincerity in court if needed)
-Give you a win

Whatever else. It's the big magillah right now. A lot is possible if she ACTS to solve that problem -- especially since, as several here have pointed, you have probably violated the RO. 

This is the sister who you kind of like? And your in-laws will be there? Do you really need that? The FIL to whom you sent pictures of his grandson fishing? He's responded to your kindness how, exactly?

As you said, There's still an RO for Christ's sake!


----------



## GusPolinski

1812overture said:


> Restraining orders confuse me, and I think there's some sort of key date or hearing coming up --
> 
> Have you considered telling her to, prior to the hearing or whatever, get that RO lifted? I don't know how or if that can be done, but it will do several things.
> -Give her a chance to do SOMETHING that you can attach value to
> -Make her acknowledge it was wrong (which may have the added value of showing a lack of sincerity in court if needed)
> -Give you a win
> 
> Whatever else. It's the big magillah right now. A lot is possible if she ACTS to solve that problem -- especially since, as several here have pointed, you have probably violated the RO.
> 
> This is the sister who you kind of like? And your in-laws will be there? Do you really need that? The FIL to whom you sent pictures of his grandson fishing? He's responded to your kindness how, exactly?
> 
> As you said, There's still an RO for Christ's sake!


The RO has been addressed ad nauseum. Unless I'm missing something, it cannot be dismissed outside of the upcoming hearing.


----------



## LongWalk

I agree with Gus's sentiment entirely. However, I am not certain you need to be quite so explicit in a speech. Everything depends on MC now. She must be looking for place to breakdown and express her regret. Does she feel remorse and shame?

If so what moment changed her heart?

I suggest that you do do not say too much to begin with. When the therapist asks to you explain why you have come for her services, perhaps you should reply simply that your wife of x years and mother of your children requested that you come. You felt that she had something to say and was seeking safe venue with professional help to it. You think this is wise and you are giving that opportunity to her. The ball will then be in your wife's court.

You are perhaps curious to know:

1) When she began to feel attraction to OM, what did she think when she realized she was going to give in to the urge to have sex with him?

Specifically we she began to demonize you, did she know she was doing wrong?

2) Why did she seek an RO? Was it it to facilitate the affair or alleviate guilt?

3) Did she try to develop affection for OM's children? Did that feel natural? Did she succeed?

4) What did OM say about the exposure?

5) Did he break off the affair?

6) How long after the affair died did she begin to think of reconciliation?

7) It must have been humiliating to start trying to communicate with you again. How did she summon her will to do it?

8) If she says she wants to reconcile, does she believe you will reenter a marriage of equals? Does she know that BS can be moody, even vindictive? A WS typically has to pour on the love and affection in return for which she may get a hug and kiss but some times just a look of irritation? Does she have it in her to bear that cross?

9) Does she expect you to have midlife crisis and cheat in revenge?

If she wants reconciliation, do you want to read all her texts and emails? I think that if you do, it may make accepting her back difficult if not impossible. On the other hand if she is willing to bare her soul by doing so, you can know for what you are prepared to forgive.

If she will give you the record of her communication with OM, you will need babysitters and a free weekend to digest it, be angry with her and start hysterical bonding. No way you can get over this without some sort of endogenous psycho-pharmeceutical crack to keep you going.

I have a feeling your wife is going to tell MC that you are very good, kind and patient.


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> In as calm a demeanor as you can muster...
> 
> "Look, you're really confusing me here. You cheated. You left. You lied to your family and probably everyone that we know in order to make me out to be some sort of abusive, clingy, needy monster.
> 
> You filed for divorce, and then decided to 'honor' me w/ the baseless indignity of a restraining order in order to ensure that (a) I'd stay out of your way, leaving you free to pursue OM as a part-time parent during the summer or (b) if I did call you, show up at your parents' house, or wherever else I thought you might be in order to talk some sense into you for the sake of saving our family, you'd be able to use those attempts at reasoning w/ you against me in court.
> 
> The first time that you even mentioned reconciliation was in the days after I told your parents what you'd actually been doing, and the day after that, you were at the zoo w/ HIS children. It's as if, despite your words regarding reconciliation, you were (and maybe even still are) actively prepping our children for the notion that they'll soon have a new step-parent.
> 
> I'd like to be able to look back at all of this in a year, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, WHATEVER... and tell myself and our children that I did everything that I could to save our marriage and family. But the simple and undeniable truth of all of this is this... _it is YOU that brought all of this sh*t into our lives._ Because of this, if you truly do want to reconcile, I really need to see you taking a much more active role in repairing the damage that your behavior has wrought.
> 
> Ever since I rebuffed what seems to have been your half-hearted offer of reconciliation, the most that I've seen from you has been one lukewarm gesture of semi-regret after another. You mentioned marriage counseling a couple of weeks ago... and then nothing. You want to have family breakfasts, go to family events, do this, do that... as if nothing ever happened. And all the while, our marriage and family is slowly being dissolved why we dump piles of money into our lawyers' pockets.
> 
> Like I said, if you want this to work, I really need to see something from you here. No more roundabout talk or half-measures. Push aside your pride or whatever it is that's keeping you from committing to a decision either way.
> 
> Consider this an olive branch of sorts... I am open to the reconciliation of our marriage.
> 
> Know this, though... There will be no rugsweeping of anything. If we reconcile, we're going all in. *EVERYTHING* must be aired out in the open. Marriage counseling, individual counseling, whatever it takes to get to the root of all of this. I won't tell our children that we're getting back together -- giving them hope that our family could once again be whole -- just for this to happen again in another year, 5 years, 10 years, or whatever.
> 
> I have taken the first step, and the ball is in your court now, so to speak. I await your response."


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Gus you hit it out of the park.


----------



## farsidejunky

After she says how kind, patient and good you are in the presence of the counselor, gently ask her to explain the RO.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> She has been mum on anything involving the OM. I think she realizes that I am willing to walk unless she starts doing some major retreating. She texted me this morning that she made an appointment with a MC and that she got a substitute teacher to watch her class that day.
> 
> I am going to tell her tonight that I'm not comfortable going to the bday party. There is still an RO for Christ's sake! Her sister has been great to me all along so I will call her personally the day before and let her know I'm not coming. I just can't go to something like that and be around her family and act like nothing is wrong.


Tell her specifically you can't because of the RO!
This is HER mess.
And tell the sister.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

I'd tell her that your lawyer told you NOT to meet her, for anything, until the RO has been dropped.

Picture this, you two start talking about what she would have to do to R. You start to argue. You say something that she really doesn't like. She makes the call about you violating the RO.

I think you weren't thinking clearly when you met her for breakfast while the RO was still in place.

I'd stop spinning this wheel, or it may bite you in the a$$.


----------



## Hicks

Why don't you ask her flat out if she's trying to pursue reconciliation?

If she answers yes, then tell her you have to think about it.
IF she answers no, then tell her to stop playing games with you.


----------



## GusPolinski

Hmm... CWI "index" says that the latest reply to this thread was posted by Hicks at 1111 am, but I'm not able to see it.

Sooo...

Testing... testing... 1...2...3...

ETA: There it is.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

GusPolinski said:


> In as calm a demeanor as you can muster...
> 
> "Look, you're really confusing me here. You cheated. You left. You lied to your family and probably everyone that we know in order to make me out to be some sort of abusive, clingy, needy monster.
> 
> You filed for divorce, and then decided to 'honor' me w/ the baseless indignity of a restraining order in order to ensure that (a) I'd stay out of your way, leaving you free to pursue OM as a part-time parent during the summer or (b) if I did call you, show up at your parents' house, or wherever else I thought you might be in order to talk some sense into you for the sake of saving our family, you'd be able to use those attempts at reasoning w/ you against me in court.
> 
> The first time that you even mentioned reconciliation was in the days after I told your parents what you'd actually been doing, and the day after that, you were at the zoo w/ HIS children. It's as if, despite your words regarding reconciliation, you were (and maybe even still are) actively prepping our children for the notion that they'll soon have a new step-parent.
> 
> I'd like to be able to look back at all of this in a year, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, WHATEVER... and tell myself and our children that I did everything that I could to save our marriage and family. But the simple and undeniable truth of all of this is this... _it is YOU that brought all of this sh*t into our lives._ Because of this, if you truly do want to reconcile, I really need to see you taking a much more active role in repairing the damage that your behavior has wrought.
> 
> Ever since I rebuffed what seems to have been your half-hearted offer of reconciliation, the most that I've seen from you has been one lukewarm gesture of semi-regret after another. You mentioned marriage counseling a couple of weeks ago... and then nothing. You want to have family breakfasts, go to family events, do this, do that... as if nothing ever happened. And all the while, our marriage and family is slowly being dissolved why we dump piles of money into our lawyers' pockets.
> 
> Like I said, if you want this to work, I really need to see something from you here. No more roundabout talk or half-measures. Push aside your pride or whatever it is that's keeping you from committing to a decision either way.
> 
> Consider this an olive branch of sorts... I am open to the reconciliation of our marriage.
> 
> Know this, though... There will be no rugsweeping of anything. If we reconcile, we're going all in. *EVERYTHING* must be aired out in the open. Marriage counseling, individual counseling, whatever it takes to get to the root of all of this. I won't tell our children that we're getting back together -- giving them hope that our family could once again be whole -- just for this to happen again in another year, 5 years, 10 years, or whatever.
> 
> I have taken the first step, and the ball is in your court now, so to speak. I await your response."


This was very well written, and I liked it. I'd like it several times if I could. 

However, it's kind of pointless until she pulls her head out of her nethers. And I doubt she's going 2 do that.

-ol' 2long


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

LongWalk said:


> I agree with Gus's sentiment entirely. However, I am not certain you need to be quite so explicit in a speech. Everything depends on MC now. She must be looking for place to breakdown and express her regret. Does she feel remorse and shame?
> 
> If so what moment changed her heart?
> 
> I suggest that you do do not say too much to begin with. When the therapist asks to you explain why you have come for her services, perhaps you should reply simply that your wife of x years and mother of your children requested that you come. You felt that she had something to say and was seeking safe venue with professional help to it. You think this is wise and you are giving that opportunity to her. The ball will then be in your wife's court.
> 
> You are perhaps curious to know:
> 
> 1) When she began to feel attraction to OM, what did she think when she realized she was going to give in to the urge to have sex with him?
> 
> Specifically we she began to demonize you, did she know she was doing wrong?
> 
> 2) Why did she seek an RO? Was it it to facilitate the affair or alleviate guilt?
> 
> 3) Did she try to develop affection for OM's children? Did that feel natural? Did she succeed?
> 
> 4) What did OM say about the exposure?
> 
> 5) Did he break off the affair?
> 
> 6) How long after the affair died did she begin to think of reconciliation?
> 
> 7) It must have been humiliating to start trying to communicate with you again. How did she summon her will to do it?
> 
> 8) If she says she wants to reconcile, does she believe you will reenter a marriage of equals? Does she know that BS can be moody, even vindictive? A WS typically has to pour on the love and affection in return for which she may get a hug and kiss but some times just a look of irritation? Does she have it in her to bear that cross?
> 
> 9) Does she expect you to have midlife crisis and cheat in revenge?
> 
> If she wants reconciliation, do you want to read all her texts and emails? I think that if you do, it may make accepting her back difficult if not impossible. On the other hand if she is willing to bare her soul by doing so, you can know for what you are prepared to forgive.
> 
> If she will give you the record of her communication with OM, you will need babysitters and a free weekend to digest it, be angry with her and start hysterical bonding. No way you can get over this without some sort of endogenous psycho-pharmeceutical crack to keep you going.
> 
> I have a feeling your wife is going to tell MC that you are very good, kind and patient.


Also well-written.

I wouldn't agree 2 MC until she'd done all she could 2 get the RO thrown out. She needs 2 show something other than a few kibbles here and there.

This is at best a very pathetic attempt at testing the waters re R.

Stay detached until something major changes with her. Because I don't think it will.

-ol' 2long


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

Hicks said:


> Why don't you ask her flat out if she's trying to pursue reconciliation?
> 
> If she answers yes, then tell her you have to think about it.
> IF she answers no, then tell her to stop playing games with you.


I don't think he needs 2 ask her anything. Her actions have already (and are still) answered(answering) this question.

It's more like "What part of 'NO' don't you understand?" (and don't say what my son said when he was 5: 'BOTH PARTS!')

-ol' 2long


----------



## warlock07

> She has been mum on anything involving the OM


This bothers me a lot. Her loyalty has been absolute.


----------



## bfree

warlock07 said:


> She has been mum on anything involving the OM
> 
> This bothers me a lot.


Attempting to reestablish cake eating?


----------



## warlock07

No her loyalty to this guy. Even her first attempt to contact dadof2 was when he was threatening OM's exposure. She wanted to protect the OM, even if it meant talking to d2.


----------



## loyallad

If a WW is more concerned about "protecting" OM than R or how shabby Do2 has been treated that speaks volumes. 

If your spouse cannot make you a priority then why should you make them a priority?:scratchhead:


----------



## Dyokemm

"The RO has been addressed ad nauseum. Unless I'm missing something, it cannot be dismissed outside of the upcoming hearing."

I just recently had a friend who went through some issues in her M and she was going to file a RO on her drug addicted and increasingly violent H.

He was held on a 5150 in the psych ward of the county hospital for stalking her...she drove to the police station and they told him either he would be arrested or he had to voluntarily admit himself for a psych eval...they ended up holding him for 3 days (the 5150 as its called here).

Anyway to the point, he asked her to visit him in the ward...both the hospital workers and the police told her if she voluntarily went into the presence of the person she had the RO on, even in the hospital, it would automatically cancel out her own RO.

Is that different in other states? (I'm in CA)


----------



## LongWalk

warlock07 said:


> No her loyalty to this guy. Even her first attempt to contact dadof2 was when he was threatening OM's exposure. She wanted to protect the OM, even if it meant talking to d2.


This is why exposing on Cheaterville would be litmus test of her intentions. TAM wisdom: when a WS is remorseful and wants their BS back, if the BS does something that harms the affair partner, they are indifferent.

A typical example would be that the POSOM loses his job for sleeping with the WW who is a subordinate colleague. WW does not spend any time or energy feeling sorry for OM. Getting BS back is the focus of their lives.

But at this point MC will reveal her thoughts. Really what purpose could she have except the hope of reconciliation?


----------



## honcho

Dyokemm said:


> "The RO has been addressed ad nauseum. Unless I'm missing something, it cannot be dismissed outside of the upcoming hearing."
> 
> I just recently had a friend who went through some issues in her M and she was going to file a RO on her drug addicted and increasingly violent H.
> 
> He was held on a 5150 in the psych ward of the county hospital for stalking her...she drove to the police station and they told him either he would be arrested or he had to voluntarily admit himself for a psych eval...they ended up holding him for 3 days (the 5150 as its called here).
> 
> Anyway to the point, he asked her to visit him in the ward...both the hospital workers and the police told her if she voluntarily went into the presence of the person she had the RO on, even in the hospital, it would automatically cancel out her own RO.
> 
> Is that different in other states? (I'm in CA)


It can depend on the type of RO and each state will most likely have its own variation, whether it was just an order of no contact or a full blown domestic abuse claim. 

When my stbx did the RO nonsense I asked the police what I should do if she just showed up at the house or my work. They told me over and over to stay away from her and immediately call the police. Any other way she could spin a story like I lured her there under false pretenses and what not. 

In my state the person who obtained the RO can do anything they please. They can call you, text you show up anywhere you are. You have the obligation to avoid them at all costs until the hearing.


----------



## 3putt

honcho said:


> In my state the person who obtained the RO can do anything they please. They can call you, text you show up anywhere you are. You have the obligation to avoid them at all costs until the hearing.


That is utter bullsh!t, but it also sounds like what Do2 is up against.


----------



## Chaparral

We had a poster who met his wife at mc. When he turned the hall corner and she saw him, she ran out and called the police. He ended up in jail and was not allowed to see his children.

Anyone remember his name? He posted a lot, may have been banned and took Zanne to task I believe.

He was treated so badly by the system some people refused to believe him.


----------



## just got it 55

Chaparral said:


> We had a poster who met his wife at mc. When he turned the hall corner and she saw him, she ran out and called the police. He ended up in jail and was not allowed to see his children.
> 
> Anyone remember his name? He posted a lot, may have been banned and took Zanne to task I believe.
> 
> He was treated so badly by the system some people refused to believe him.


Wilderness ??

55


----------



## Augusto

dadof2 said:


> Wow, thanks so much Gus.
> 
> I have a lot of those same questions, and you hit the nail on the head with your answers.
> 
> With STBX making small overtures, I realize that right now that's all she can do. That is her personality. She needs to do a lot more, but I do realize that its no small thing for her to be doing this. Obviously there is a lot of heavy lifting to do, so I don't have much faith that she will be able to do it.
> 
> Last night she asked me if I would like to go to our nieces' (her sisters twins) birthday party with her and the kids this weekend. I told her I would think about it, but I don't really feel comfortable going but I appreciate the offer.


Dude you should totally go....let her know that you might leave early because you have a date.


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

Should just continue to be calm and resolved.


----------



## dadof2

Ok, here's an update:

Today is the scheduled day for our initial temporary hearing. My attorney sent STBX's attorney a consent judgement that lined out everything except the community property settlement. It included custody, visitation, child support, and spousal support. It was all terms that were favorable to me, and I could live with. The big thing was that we asked for 50/50 custody with joint legal custody, as well as only paying 12 months spousal support with no final. We also included a mutual RO, which was very specific as to when and where we could have contact. We included this because we didn't think she would drop her RO so my lawyer said 2 can play that game and we made it mutual. We sent this early last week and my lawyer put calls in Friday to her attorney asking to see if they had a response, but we got nothing.

Well yesterday (Monday) we were sitting in the waiting room of MC (more on that later...) and I ask STBX if she was able to get a substitute for Tuesday. She asked why, and I said because we have court Tuesday. Her face went white. She said, "I thought we took care of that." I said that we haven't received anything from her lawyer so we are prepared to go to the hearing. She immediately got up and went and called her lawyer. She came back 5 mins later and said it is taken care of, no court.

An hour or so later, I get an email from my lawyer saying that her lawyer accepted all of the terms of our agreement and that STBX asked to remove the RO language. My lawyer said that will be fine, and STBX is supposed to sign today and send it to my lawyer for me to sign and file. So we avoided the hearing and have all of our custody, child support, and spousal support settled. The original RO expires as of today and since she asked to remove it from our agreement, there is no RO in effect from here forward.

I am about to leave for lunch, but will hopefully post details about the MC and how that all came about later this afternoon. Some good some bad, but very cautious...


----------



## tom67

Thanks do2 you sound like you are really in a good place now.
50,000 feet that is.


----------



## LongWalk

What she has done on the legal front is all action that speaks louder than words. She is back peddling to reduce conflict. Sounds as if she regrets the situation she is now in.

Your MC must have provided a clearer picture of her thinking.

Staying in your current mode is serving you well.


----------



## happyman64

Do2

A little whirlwind of events lately?

I hope your roller coaster ride is coming to an end soon.

HM


----------



## 3putt

LongWalk said:


> What she has done on the legal front is all action that speaks louder than words. She back peddling to reduce conflict. *Sounds as if she regrets the situation she is now in.*


It also wouldn't surprise me at all for her to start making some R overtures in the not so distant future. The full weight of what she has done and the costs associated with it is starting to get real.


----------



## just got it 55

3putt said:


> It also wouldn't surprise me at all for her to start making some R overtures in the not so distant future. The full weight of what she has done and the costs associated with it is starting to get real.


:iagree:

You can say that again 3p

Typical sh1t

Be cautious dad but I hope resolution means an intact family

55


----------



## tom67

3putt said:


> It also wouldn't surprise me at all for her to start making some R overtures in the not so distant future. The full weight of what she has done and the costs associated with it is starting to get real.


You mean there aren't any unicorns and a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?:slap:


----------



## dadof2

A little more on the update...

Last week she had contacted me a few times about different things, mostly revolving around our son starting school. I could tell she was very meek and fishing for ways to keep the conversations going. She did make an appointment with our MC and followed through with showing up to the appointment yesterday. The MC is a lady that I have been seeing as an IC. We went to a different MC right after DDay, but I was not satisfied with his work. My IC is a licensed Marriage/Family Therapist, so she was fine with STBX coming to a session.

We both went in together and sat down and the counselor asked why we were here together, and I let STBX start talking. I was very happy with the way the counselor steered the meeting and kept it on the task of why STBX had an affair. STBX was very humble and to my surprise did not make excuses or try to justify her behavior. She did mention that things were not great in the marriage leading up to the affair, and I have to agree with her. The therapist was quick to point out that it still was not an excuse to step out of the marriage.

We dove in headfirst to the affair, and I said that she had never even acknowledged the affair to me. She finally did, and she said she was ashamed and sorry. I asked her how/why it ended, and she said because OM wanted to get serious and she realized that she didn't want that. She said she still sees him occasionally at work but it is all business. She even mentioned that there is a school in our area that will have an opening for a teacher in her subject at the end of this year. She said she understands that this is on her and that she has to be the one to show remorse and prove that she is trustworthy again.

I told her that I appreciated everything she said, and that I don't know if I can ever get over what she has done to me and our family. I said I would be open to further conversations, if only to find out if I can live with what has happened. I told her that there may be too much water under the bridge for us to ever be together again. I was honest with her, and I said that there is nothing more I would like than for us to be together again and raising our kids in a happy home. But I also said that I don't know if I can do that knowing what she has done.

So we are still moving forward with the divorce. As I mentioned in my earlier post, we should be filing our consent judgement this week which settles everything but community property. She asked me afterwards if I would like to continue MC, and I told her that I would be open to it for a few more sessions. She seemed to show remorse, but I am very wary of her apologies because I have heard them before. I plan on keeping the distance we have had lately and watching her actions. I don't know if there is a chance for us to ever be together again, but I feel like I have taken the right steps to prepare myself either way.


----------



## bandit.45

tom67 said:


> You mean there aren't any unicorns and a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?:slap:


No. A leprechaun came along and kicked her ass.


----------



## Ripper

When it gets to this point, divorce seems like the better option. She already killed the marriage with her affair, might as well go ahead and bury it.

If she is serious about owning her mess, she can always work at winning you back. While I personally wouldn't remarry someone like her, its an option, especially with a pre-nup. After her actions prove her intent.


----------



## tom67

You did great.
This is just a suggestion I think I've said it before go out on a casual date with facebook chick or another just to interact with another woman.
It helped me just take baby steps.
It is sad it took this long for her to say she was sorry.
Again it sounds like you will be fine with or without her and like you said more or less how do you trust her again.

I guess you can watch her actions one thing she should do is apologize and set the record straight to her parents and mutual friends.


----------



## bandit.45

tom67 said:


> You did great.
> This is just a suggestion I think I've said it before go out on a casual date with facebook chick or another just to interact with another woman.
> It helped me just take baby steps.
> It is sad it took this long for her to say she was sorry.
> Again it sounds like you will be fine with or without her and like you said more or less how do you trust her again.
> 
> I guess you can watch her actions one thing she should do is apologize and set the record straight to her parents and mutual friends.


:iagree:

This is the least she can do for you. 

As for possible R, step back, stay frosty and stay aloof. Watch her actions. If she really acts like she is remorseful, not just saying she is, then I would remain aloof but available to her to talk when she needs to. 

Go through with the D. Tell her that putting the dead marriage in the ground is one of your requirements for possible R. Then, if she continues on with IC or the two of you stay with the MC, then let her know you will be watching her for observable signs that she is owning her sh!t and is serious about fixing her issues....one of which is her piss poor inability to express herself and tell you her needs. If she does this, it is possible the two of you could start dating again on a trial basis. 

Just a suggestion. 

Or you could dump her clean and go find a hot little thing to warm your bed.


----------



## Suspecting2014

dadof2 said:


> A little more on the update...
> 
> Last week she had contacted me a few times about different things, mostly revolving around our son starting school. I could tell she was very meek and fishing for ways to keep the conversations going. She did make an appointment with our MC and followed through with showing up to the appointment yesterday. The MC is a lady that I have been seeing as an IC. We went to a different MC right after DDay, but I was not satisfied with his work. My IC is a licensed Marriage/Family Therapist, so she was fine with STBX coming to a session.
> 
> We both went in together and sat down and the counselor asked why we were here together, and I let STBX start talking. I was very happy with the way the counselor steered the meeting and kept it on the task of why STBX had an affair. STBX was very humble and to my surprise did not make excuses or try to justify her behavior. She did mention that things were not great in the marriage leading up to the affair, and I have to agree with her. The therapist was quick to point out that it still was not an excuse to step out of the marriage.
> 
> We dove in headfirst to the affair, and I said that she had never even acknowledged the affair to me. She finally did, and she said she was ashamed and sorry. I asked her how/why it ended, and she said because OM wanted to get serious and she realized that she didn't want that. She said she still sees him occasionally at work but it is all business. She even mentioned that there is a school in our area that will have an opening for a teacher in her subject at the end of this year. She said she understands that this is on her and that she has to be the one to show remorse and prove that she is trustworthy again.
> 
> I told her that I appreciated everything she said, and that I don't know if I can ever get over what she has done to me and our family. I said I would be open to further conversations, if only to find out if I can live with what has happened. I told her that there may be too much water under the bridge for us to ever be together again. I was honest with her, and I said that there is nothing more I would like than for us to be together again and raising our kids in a happy home. But I also said that I don't know if I can do that knowing what she has done.
> 
> So we are still moving forward with the divorce. As I mentioned in my earlier post, we should be filing our consent judgement this week which settles everything but community property. She asked me afterwards if I would like to continue MC, and I told her that I would be open to it for a few more sessions. She seemed to show remorse, but I am very wary of her apologies because I have heard them before. I plan on keeping the distance we have had lately and watching her actions. I don't know if there is a chance for us to ever be together again, but I feel like I have taken the right steps to prepare myself either way.


IMO u should get divorse and then date her. 
As un said before she already said she missed the kids but not u. 
She needs to be tested for a long time before even date her. 
Besides there is alot more to explain, but even that will not be a justification
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

So how bad did you think things were in your marriage before she cheated? Did either of you bring this up and talk about it?


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, I would bet his kids had a lot to do with her not wanting to get serious with him. Plus he is a proven cheater and there is no telling what she knows about him now.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> This is the least she can do for you.
> 
> As for possible R, step back, stay frosty and stay aloof. Watch her actions. If she really acts like she is remorseful, not just saying she is, then I would remain aloof but available to her to talk when she needs to.
> 
> Go through with the D. Tell her that putting the dead marriage in the ground is one of your requirements for possible R. Then, if she continues on with IC or the two of you stay with the MC, then let her know you will be watching her for observable signs that she is owning her sh!t and is serious about fixing her issues....one of which is her piss poor inability to express herself and tell you her needs. If she does this, it is possible the two of you could start dating again on a trial basis.
> 
> Just a suggestion.
> 
> Or you could dump her clean and go find a hot little thing to warm your bed.


Good point on being aloof like you could give a sh!t one way or another.
She should take you to her parents and yours and own it.
IF a big if she did this hit ic voluntarily stopped the pill popping and if she needed got treatment for that,maybe you could consider r with her.
Do2 you have come a long way from your first post.
Take care.:smthumbup:


----------



## bandit.45

And keep in mind that the ONLY reason she is no longer in the affair is because she could not get the OM to commit to her. 

You are Plan B my friend. Do you want to be her fallback? That's not love...that's convenience.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> And keep in mind that the ONLY reason she is no longer in the affair is because she could not get the OM to commit to her.
> 
> You are Plan B my friend. Do you want to be her fallback? That's not love...that's convenience.


From what she said he was the one that wanted to get serious but I get what you are saying.
I think they both got reprimanded at work which "helped" her break it off.
Who really knows cheaters lie.


----------



## bandit.45

I must have misread. Maybe it was just a fling... An exit affair for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

Good job. Whether or not you attempt R is a major step. Do you want a time line of the affair?

Was she the dumper or dumped? Both are possible, but even if playing step mom did not appeal to her, that is not a ringing endorsement of you. 

I would say that at some level her cheating is comprehensible. But the RO was a libelous defamation of your character. What was she thinking? One simple explanation is that she wanted to have intercourse with OM without you popping up to threaten them. Was that her thinking?

You might ask her why she wants to leave her school? Is she worried that OM may pursue her and she will be unable to resist?

Does she feel her reputation has been damaged? Do the students know?

If you divorce, does she want to date you? Would she be celibate while you dated others?

I think it's fair to say that if she goes out with other men now, you will not consider reconciliation. You might want to date other women to recover your ego.

Has she gotten checked for STDs?


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



bandit.45 said:


> I must have misread. Maybe it was just a fling... An exit affair for her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then why is she trying to R?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

farsidejunky said:


> Then why is she trying to R?



Plan B.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2, what is the expected timeline w/ respect to the divorce being final?


----------



## bigfoot

Dadof2,

I have to say that despite all of what you said at MC, you have conceded so much and possibly set yourself up for more hurt. You said that you would want nothing more than to be together and raise your kids as a family, but were not sure you could do it in light of what she has done. That was a good hearted well meaning capitulation, IMHO. 

Here you are on the cusp of divorce, she knows how money and visitation are going to be so now she glimpses life as it will be and then you pull her back from the abyss and say, I still kind of want you, if I can get over it. You have put the weight on your shoulders, needlessly. Conveniently, she says the other guy wanted more of a commitment and she did not want that with him?! Honestly, think of the utter bullshyte of that statement! Also note, she did not say, "I love you and realize it was a horrible error that I could not reverse. She essentially said, "well, given the two choices, I don't choose OM so by default here I am." 

You have had an RO, Divorce, Lawyers, Back and forth on so much and then as judgment day approaches, she says, the other guy wanted too much of a commitment?! How freaking committed did she have to be to get to this point?! The signs of so called remorse that you see are just signs of reality. Everyone freaks out when things are about to get real. Folks get cold feet when getting married. Athletes choke. All kind of stuff. Her words are so contradictory to the history that you all have that it is pitiful.

It is your life, do with it what you will. I will just say that perhaps you were so committed to the goal of getting your wife back that you ignored the fact that she really was not the type of person that you should want for a wife. She is the white whale to your Ahab. I strongly urge you to let the divorce go through, which you alluded would happen. Your expressions of doubt about getting over her crap need further exploration. 

I don't buy that she broke it off due to commitment issues because to get this far, she had to be committed. Its like the old joke about ham and eggs. the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed. Your wife has been the proverbial pig and now she wants to chicken out. I forsee a world of hurt for you if your don't divorce her. Both of you need to live under that structure for a while. Once the pressure of an impending divorce is gone, the true colors will come out. Then, you can decide. To understand freedom, you need to be free, not just dream about it.

Good luck, cause you are gonna need it.


----------



## bandit.45

farsidejunky said:


> Then why is she trying to R?


I'm not convinced she is. I think she's putting her feelers out to see where he stands. She's keeping her options open.


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> I'm not convinced she is. I think she's putting her feelers out to see where he stands. She's keeping her options open.


This would be best addressed by proceeding w/ the divorce. dadof2 should continue to watch her words and -- more importantly -- her behavior in order to gauge her continued commitment to the reconciliation of their marriage. If, after the divorce, she's displaying all the right behavior...

1) Continued attendance _*and* participation_ in MC.
2) Consideration of IC.
3) Maintaining exclusivity w/ dadof2 (maybe even w/o reasonable expectation of the same commitment from him).
4) Complete and total NC w/ OM, meaning that she starts looking for a new job immediately... as in 5 minutes ago. Yesterday. Last week.

And by the way, I'm not so sure that I believe her statement about not wanting her relationship w/ OM to get too serious... after all, she introduced the children to him, and was babysitting his children (assuming, of course, that she wasn't lying about this) as well. Correct?


----------



## LongWalk

Her meekness is a sign that she wants R.

In MC did she tell Dadof2: "I love you. I want to be back in bed with you were I belong. At the kitchen table eating as a family."

We did not hear her speak and don't know what emotional tone the exchange took on.

Divorce is expensive. Sucks to have to go through this.

Dadof2,

Ask your WW for her emails, Facebook and text messages with OM. You need her passwords. Moreover, you need to sit and read before she can erase them. If she says that she has erased them all, then I would tell her that R is off the table. I can't see successful R if she is hiding the affair.

Gus wrote:



> Complete and total NC w/ OM, meaning that she starts looking for a new job immediately... as in 5 minutes ago. Yesterday. Last week.


Changing jobs is often a requirement for a WS. However, in this case, I think WW is seen as compromised, so it might be good for her to face the music instead running away.

I still think Dadof2 should put OM on Cheaterville. If she then comes back asking him to take it down at OM's request, then her commitment to Dof2 is not 100 percent.



> "OM, assistant principal of a grade school in X county, state, conducted an affair with a married teacher employed at his school. He exploited an after school extra curricular workout group for staff to develop the relationship."


Ask your wife if either she or OM have been reprimanded.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Dadof2,

IMO she doesn’t love you and the whole thing was an exit affair, please let me elaborate.

I believe she never was in the fog, she was awake the whole time. When cheaters are in the fog once they are discovered and already walk away they don’t hide it, they brag about the new “real love". Besides they don’t get RO and aggressive lawyers for divorce, they just don’t care. In fantasy land (fog) the love for the POSOM is the only thing that matters.

When cheaters are in the fog, once they realize the whole mess, they don’t act as calm as your wife does. They try really hard to get the BS back; I believe your wife doesn’t.

From other angle, she didn’t was with OM because of fog, they were together because she was bored and OMPOS was a something forbidden, so was existing. Once it got boring as a normal relation with someone you just don’t love, so she got rid of him. 

When was the last time she told you that she loves you???
You were the plan B in case the grass wasn’t greener!!!
I believe you should play her. You should go to MC while your get her to sign all you need to get the divorce done ASAP. When MC don’t lie but maybe omit questionable answers, like saying never, or I can’t, etc. just say maybe, perhaps, etc.

When it is over, you can decide what to do over her reactions from now on, just don’t hurry up, make her sweet a little and watch her behavior if she ever thinks she lose you. I´ll bet that she will find another POS in an eye blink.

I really think you should move on and find someone that deserves you.

Sorry for my English, it is not my first language.

PS Talking about moving to other school is IMO because she is sure you will be back in a sec.

PS2 besides you should try to confirm the break up thing, maybe she was dumped.


----------



## happyman64

Dof2

I am sure you have many things on your mind at this time.

Watching her and being aloof is wise right now.

Only her wanting to do the right thing without any influence from you will determine if she is being honest/truthful with you as well as herself.

In the end you might choose D. Or you might choose R.

The key is that it is your decision to make.

I am glad she was honest about the A in front of you and the MC.

And I wish you would expand on the marital issues prior to her A.

No matter what take your time. Spend it with your children.

And make sure your WW priority are your children at this time.

Because those kids have to be confused.

Good Luck

HM

PS
Have your in-laws chimed in lately????


----------



## bandit.45

GusPolinski said:


> And by the way, I'm not so sure that I believe her statement about not wanting her relationship w/ OM to get too serious... after all, she introduced the children to him, and was babysitting his children (assuming, of course, that she wasn't lying about this) as well. Correct?


I agree. There had to be some amount of seriousness about the affair and where it was heading given that pesky issue with the RO. We don't normally see the WS file one of those. My guess is that she and the OM were carrying on for much longer than she is letting on. 

I'm a guessin this affair started a good year or more ago and hit its apex right at the time she grabbed the kids and left Dadof2. This was well thought out conspiracy, not just a knee jerk reaction of a WW who wanted out. She had no qualms whatsoever in filing false accusations against her husband to obtain that RO. That speaks to a level of animosity we don't normally see a WS have against their BSs. 

No, she has a lot of answering to do. Lots of questions that need clarifying. She cannot be allowed to get away with this behavior and be rewarded with R, unless she does some major damage repair. Dadof2 needs to write out a comprehensive list of questions for her to answer completely and to his satisfaction.


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

When Happyman wrote this:



> And I wish you would expand on the marital issues prior to her A.


I was impressed. He is a top quality analyst IMO. He is probably better than the average MC by quite a bit. If he thinks that you can face the short comings in your pre-affair marriage, then he is showing confidence in your maturity and wisdom. He would not give this advice to a person who very shaky.

Your calm demeanour suggests that you are a pretty solid person. As your MC stated the affair is the central issue. Only your WW can take responsibility for it. But what basis there is to reconcile, that is a judgment call that requires objectivity and passion. You cannot have couple relationship with your wife if the fundamentals are not sound.

Can you reveal passion towards her without being hurt again?


----------



## ariel_angel77

Okay, I'm going to go against the current here. I think that it was really mature of her to initiate MC and it shows she wants to work on the marriage, plus the fact that she ended the affair. I don't think it was an "exit affair". She doesn't want to get serious with him because she wants YOU. I do still think she has a lot of work to go through to win you back. I would lay out to her your conditions of taking her back, which is: A: She needs to apologize for ALL of it very thoroughly (lying, sleeping with him, taking your kids to meet him, lying to her parents about it, the RO, making you look bad for it) and EXPLAIN exactly why she shouldn't have done it and why she will not do it again and do not accept unless she shows full and complete remorse. Let her know you will not accept any less. Also, quitting her job because OM is there. Plus continuing MC and IC for as long as you deem appropriate and applying things you learn in there to your marriage.

You are in MC. I don't think you guys are over just yet.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



ariel_angel77 said:


> Okay, I'm going to go against the current here. I think that it was really mature of her to initiate MC and it shows she wants to work on the marriage, plus the fact that she ended the affair. I don't think it was an "exit affair". She doesn't want to get serious with him because she wants YOU. I do still think she has a lot of work to go through to win you back. I would lay out to her your conditions of taking her back, which is: A: She needs to apologize for ALL of it very thoroughly (lying, sleeping with him, taking your kids to meet him, lying to her parents about it, the RO, making you look bad for it) and EXPLAIN exactly why she shouldn't have done it and why she will not do it again and do not accept unless she shows full and complete remorse. Let her know you will not accept any less. Also, quitting her job because OM is there. Plus continuing MC and IC for as long as you deem appropriate and applying things you learn in there to your marriage.
> 
> You are in MC. I don't think you guys are over just yet.


The question isn't really what she wants. It is clear what she wants right this second is him. The question is does she have the maturity to maintain 6 months from now, a year from now, etc.


----------



## ariel_angel77

farsidejunky said:


> The question isn't really what she wants. It is clear what she wants right this second is him. The question is does she have the maturity to maintain 6 months from now, a year from now, etc.


That's why they should continue marriage counseling to find out. The answer to that isn't automatically no. Yes, he should keep his guard up for a while, but I definitely think it's worth a shot when she's the mother of his children and they have so much time invested in one another, plus he doesn't seem completely done with her in his heart. However, like I said, *ONLY* if she shows complete remorse and continues MC.


----------



## GusPolinski

ariel_angel77 said:


> That's why they should continue marriage counseling to find out. The answer to that isn't automatically no. Yes, he should keep his guard up for a while, but I definitely think it's worth a shot when she's the mother of his children and they have so much time invested in one another, plus he doesn't seem completely done with her in his heart. However, like I said, **ONLY* if she shows complete remorse and continues MC.*


...especially once the divorce is final.


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## aug

And yet the RO is still in place, right?

A solid sign of good faith is for her to apply to have the RO lifted by admitting that her facts for getting the RO were lies.

Think she can do that? If not, why not?

I dont understand why she cant remove the RO as a sign she wants to reconcile?


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## happyman64

We all know that Do2's WW made some very bad decisions.

These cheaters lose all reason and morals during the Affair.

Their BS's take low priority in fact they sometimes drop them from their lives altogether.

Do2's WW did this by using the RO. She cancelled the marriage and took Do2 out with one shot.

IMO that act was deceitful and hurtful. Because she also took his children away from him.

Can all of these issues be worked out? Overcome? Sure they can.

In time. 

Will Do2 ever forget any of this mess. Of course not.

He might forgive if she proves herself worthy in time but he will never forget.

And now Do2 knows he can replace her. It will not be too hard because she sunk too low.

He needs to take time to sort his feelings. He needs time to decide if he can forgive.

He will also need time to see if he still loves her enough to be married to her.

But in the end she needs to prove to Do2 that she is worthy of him.

She has a lot of work to do. Sure she knows she messed up. She does not know just how bad.

MC will help them sort out their feelings. I think this is great.

All he can say right now is "Let's see what happens".....

HM


----------



## just got it 55

Dad Great advice by

HM64
Gus
LW
Bandit

and many others

I only have 3 words to add

Watch

Listen

Learn

55


----------



## jim123

Actions over words.

Her action was to continue the D and make it easier. 

She has been two steps ahead since day one. The surprise filing and an RO. With the RO she did not expect that the exposure would happen. 

She and OM want to keep their jobs so they had to cool it for now.

The best cover is for the WW to go to MC but still let the D advance. If people ask about the A she can say me and my H are trying to work it out. Most people back at that point.

She allows the D to continue and when if finalizes she can say she tried. If OP exposes then he is an angry X.

She filed. She can stop it or put it on hold while in MC. Why spend all this money. Only one reason. This is a false R.


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## tom67

jim123 said:


> Actions over words.
> 
> Her action was to continue the D and make it easier.
> 
> She has been two steps ahead since day one. The surprise filing and an RO. With the RO she did not expect that the exposure would happen.
> 
> She and OM want to keep their jobs so they had to cool it for now.
> 
> The best cover is for the WW to go to MC but still let the D advance. If people ask about the A she can say me and my H are trying to work it out. Most people back at that point.
> 
> She allows the D to continue and when if finalizes she can say she tried. If OP exposes then he is an angry X.
> 
> She filed. She can stop it or put it on hold while in MC. Why spend all this money. Only one reason. This is a false R.


That's why he should put the om on cheaterville send it to ALL the board and the principal.
Pressure from above pressure from below.
Oh and if he can find the teachers work emails.
Then we will find out if it is a false r:lol:


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## jim123

tom67 said:


> That's why he should put the om on cheaterville send it to ALL the board and the principal.
> Pressure from above pressure from below.
> Oh and if he can find the teachers work emails.
> Then we will find out if it is a false r:lol:


No need. They spend hours of attorney time, filing fees then go into MC. 

She agrees to his terms. She says everything is her fault. Asks to continue MC but not stop the D.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



happyman64 said:


> We all know that Do2's WW made some very bad decisions.
> 
> These cheaters lose all reason and morals during the Affair.
> 
> Their BS's take low priority in fact they sometimes drop them from their lives altogether.
> 
> Do2's WW did this by using the RO. She cancelled the marriage and took Do2 put with one shot.
> 
> IMO that act was deceitful and hurtful. Because she also took his children away from him.
> 
> Can all of these issues be worked out? Overcome? Sure they can.
> 
> In time.
> 
> Will Do2 ever forget any of this mess. Of course not.
> 
> He might forgive if she proves herself worthy in time but he will never forget.
> 
> And now Do2 knows he can replace her. It will not be too hard because she sunk too low.
> 
> He needs to take time to sort his feelings. He needs time to decide if he can forgive.
> 
> He will also need time to see if he still loves her enough to be married to her.
> 
> But in the end she needs to prove to Do2 that she is worthy of him.
> 
> She has a lot of work to do. Sure she knows she messed up. She does not know just how bad.
> 
> MC will help them sort out their feelings. I think this is great.
> 
> All he can say right now is "Let's see what happens".....
> 
> HM


HM64:

I agree with this. However, as mentioned by another poster, she was cold blooded in her execution with the initial separation, RO, etc. That has to be carefully considered and dissected. I think that aspect bothers me more than anything. 

I would love for her to come to her senses long term and see a happy ending. But she was not just foggy and emotional; she was ruthless.


----------



## thatbpguy

ariel_angel77 said:


> Okay, I'm going to go against the current here. I think that it was really mature of her to initiate MC and it shows she wants to work on the marriage, plus the fact that she ended the affair. I don't think it was an "exit affair". She doesn't want to get serious with him because she wants YOU. I do still think she has a lot of work to go through to win you back. I would lay out to her your conditions of taking her back, which is: A: She needs to apologize for ALL of it very thoroughly (lying, sleeping with him, taking your kids to meet him, lying to her parents about it, the RO, making you look bad for it) and EXPLAIN exactly why she shouldn't have done it and why she will not do it again and do not accept unless she shows full and complete remorse. Let her know you will not accept any less. Also, quitting her job because OM is there. Plus continuing MC and IC for as long as you deem appropriate and applying things you learn in there to your marriage.
> 
> You are in MC. I don't think you guys are over just yet.


Some of what you say has a logical feel to it, but I will disagree.

I view this as a woman who has intentionally and systematically destroyed her marriage and family and is now seeking some moral high ground to make her feel better about it all. Sort of like a backhanded apology.

Were she feeling true and genuine remorse I would expect a lot more from her. More earnestness. More honesty and accepting the pain she caused. I just don't sense any of that here at all. Just a form of going thru the motions to lessen what she has really done so it's all more palatable to her. Like calling a betrayal an "affair" as if it's some sort of dinner date.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



thatbpguy said:


> Some of what you say has a logical feel to it, but I will disagree.
> 
> I view this as a woman who has intentionally and systematically destroyed her marriage and family and is now seeking some moral high ground to make her feel better about it all. Sort of like a backhanded apology.
> 
> Were she feeling true and genuine remorse I would expect a lot more from her. More earnestness. More honesty and accepting the pain she caused. I just don't sense any of that here at all. Just a form of going thru the motions to lessen what she has really done so it's all more palatable to her. Like calling a betrayal an "affair" as if it's some sort of dinner date.


This sums up perfectly what I was stumbling to explain.


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## tom67

thatbpguy said:


> Some of what you say has a logical feel to it, but I will disagree.
> 
> I view this as a woman who has intentionally and systematically destroyed her marriage and family and is now seeking some moral high ground to make her feel better about it all. Sort of like a backhanded apology.
> 
> Were she feeling true and genuine remorse I would expect a lot more from her. More earnestness. More honesty and accepting the pain she caused. I just don't sense any of that here at all. Just a form of going thru the motions to lessen what she has really done so it's all more palatable to her. Like calling a betrayal an "affair" as if it's some sort of dinner date.


:iagree:
She will have to do a lot more.
And fast.


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## tom67

Do not discount that she is slow killing herself also between the xanax another prescript I forget what probably from another doctor and a bottle of wine a night.

Has anyone read Blacksmith's thread where she allegedly was on meth would not take a drug test and was in at least 7 accidents in like a 6 week period with the kids in the car for some of them.
Yeah kind of serious ya think?


----------



## GusPolinski

tom67 said:


> *Do not discount that she is slow killing herself also between the xanax another prescript I forget what probably from another doctor and a bottle of wine a night.*
> 
> Has anyone read Blacksmith's thread where she allegedly was on meth would not take a drug test and was in at least 7 accidents in like a 6 week period with the kids in the car for some of them.
> Yeah kind of serious ya think?


Oh. Damn. I'd forgotten all about the substance abuse. *Definitely* needs to be addressed in all this.


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## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Oh. Damn. I'd forgotten all about the substance abuse. *Definitely* needs to be addressed in all this.


Gus as long as she is using it only gets worse.


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## Suspecting2014

thatbpguy said:


> Some of what you say has a logical feel to it, but I will disagree.
> 
> I view this as a woman who has* intentionally and systematically destroyed her marriage and family* and is now seeking some moral high ground to make her feel better about it all. Sort of like a backhanded apology.


There is so much to explain, so much…this is why I think she wasn’t, and isn’t, in love with you. It is just too cold.

In other hand, as was posted, maybe the affair begun earlier that you think.

If she is willing to do whatever it takes, why not a poly and ask about other affairs, motivations, etc. Probably she will tell you everything before the appointment day.



thatbpguy said:


> Were she feeling true and genuine remorse *I would expect a lot more from her*. More earnestness. More honesty and accepting the pain she caused. I just don't sense *any of that here at all*. Just a form of going thru the motions to lessen what she has really done so it's all more palatable to her. Like calling a betrayal an "affair" as if it's some sort of dinner date.


Even if she is willing to do what it takes, that maybe just won’t be enough to R. 

There is a lack of inciative, I mean brownies and keeping a moderate NC is so far from what it takes...BTW your nice bd was a total setup to use her family make the work for her.

If you decide to R, be clear that every single day you would give to her is gift not a promise. 

Dad, use MC to get some closure and get D sign ASAP.


Another thought, I just can believe the break up thing, maybe little research could light this whole situation. If OM dumped her you are, sorry to point this up again, her plan B.


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## Divinely Favored

bandit.45 said:


> I agree. There had to be some amount of seriousness about the affair and where it was heading given that pesky issue with the RO. We don't normally see the WS file one of those. My guess is that she and the OM were carrying on for much longer than she is letting on.
> 
> I'm a guessin this affair started a good year or more ago and hit its apex right at the time she grabbed the kids and left Dadof2. This was well thought out conspiracy, not just a knee jerk reaction of a WW who wanted out. She had no qualms whatsoever in filing false accusations against her husband to obtain that RO. That speaks to a level of animosity we don't normally see a WS have against their BSs.
> 
> No, she has a lot of answering to do. Lots of questions that need clarifying. She cannot be allowed to get away with this behavior and be rewarded with R, unless she does some major damage repair. Dadof2 needs to write out a comprehensive list of questions for her to answer completely and to his satisfaction.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Suspecting2014

bandit.45 said:


> I agree. There had to be some amount of seriousness about the affair and where it was heading given that pesky issue with the RO. We don't normally see the WS file one of those. My guess is that she and the OM were carrying on for much longer than she is letting on.
> 
> I'm a guessin this affair started a good year or more ago and hit its apex right at the time she grabbed the kids and left Dadof2. This was well thought out conspiracy, not just a knee jerk reaction of a WW who wanted out. She had no qualms whatsoever in filing false accusations against her husband to obtain that RO. That speaks to a level of animosity we don't normally see a WS have against their BSs.
> 
> No, she has a lot of answering to do. Lots of questions that need clarifying. She cannot be allowed to get away with this behavior and be rewarded with R, unless she does some major damage repair. Dadof2 needs to write out a comprehensive list of questions for her to answer completely and to his satisfaction.


I agree 
I believe this was planned long time ago
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

I think the RO is the big hurdle. I think it indicares an experienced cheater. I think it points directly to the divorced asst principlal. I think he ste up the yoga thing intentionally to snag some women. I think he played her, got her caught up in this and it took her awhile to see what kind of low life he really is. As with players they find the weaknesses in the marriage and then exploit them.

These weaknesses/problems need to be addressed.

Posting him on cv will quickly tell if she still has feelings for him. Aamof, had he been posted when the affair was first discovered he would have ran like a scalded dog.


----------



## Divinely Favored

I believe she did not want you that was the reason for the restraining order she did not want with you fighting for her trying to dissuade her from going to him she did not want you interfering in her adulterous escapades. she said she did not want to be serious with him so that means she destroyed her marriage and children's lives for some **** that's pretty shallow I think she did want to be serious or she would have got the restraining order to keep you from interfering.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

One interpretation of the RO is that she knew Dof2 was too strong. She did not want to confront him face to face and this was her means of avoiding it.

She still has a lot to tell him. And she'll have to to have any chance of R.

Dof2,

You can draw a reconciliation pie and cut into pieces. Each time she lies or covers up you can fill in a sliver or more, depending on how transgression you see in it. Once the pie for R is gone, then you'll know that a cheater cannot have the pie and lie about it.

She dumped OM. Was this a lie?

Let her open her emails and text messages to show this to be true. OM must have chased her.

It could be that they school board told him to end the affair. He told her they had to quit.


----------



## dadof2

Lots of good stuff in here to digest. I appreciate the feedback guys, more than you can imagine.

I am struggling with the events of the last week or so. Not sure what to make of all of it honestly. I think part of her feels sorry for what she did and realizes that she has made terrible choices. But I also can't get past the seriousness of filing so quickly and the RO.

We were able to sign off on an agreement to avoid having our temp hearing, and I had put language in there to have mutual RO's. Her only request was that we take that language out, effectively ending the RO. That has been the most initiative she has shown yet in this process.

I don't know where we go from here. Some posters have mentioned her stopping the D as showing that she wants back in the marriage. But I don't want the D process to stop. To me there's no point in putting that on hold on the hopes of a reconciliation, then have to start our year separation over if R doesn't work.

She has come clean about the affair, I haven't asked for the bloody details yet but it is coming. Last night she came by to see the kids and I asked her on the spot to call OM and tell him that its over. She told me she had already had that conversation with him. I told her I needed to hear it. She called him on speakerphone right in front of me. She told him that there is no more relationship with him and that they have to work together but it stays 100% professional. She told him that her priority is getting back with me and being a family again. He said "I understand, I thought we already covered this. I wish you the best." So that made me feel like she had already talked to him about it.

It was nice of her to do that in front of me, but I did not get the satisfaction from it that I thought I would. I just don't know about this whole process. I feel like I had moved on from this mess and now I am going back to having to verify all of her stories, etc. I remember what those days were like and I'm not sure if I can go through that again.


----------



## Turin74

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*

Only one thing to say here : dude, whatever you have been doing so far is working. Just keep doing that.


dadof2 said:


> Lots of good stuff in here to digest. I appreciate the feedback guys, more than you can imagine.
> 
> I am struggling with the events of the last week or so. Not sure what to make of all of it honestly. I think part of her feels sorry for what she did and realizes that she has made terrible choices. But I also can't get past the seriousness of filing so quickly and the RO.
> 
> We were able to sign off on an agreement to avoid having our temp hearing, and I had put language in there to have mutual RO's. Her only request was that we take that language out, effectively ending the RO. That has been the most initiative she has shown yet in this process.
> 
> I don't know where we go from here. Some posters have mentioned her stopping the D as showing that she wants back in the marriage. But I don't want the D process to stop. To me there's no point in putting that on hold on the hopes of a reconciliation, then have to start our year separation over if R doesn't work.
> 
> She has come clean about the affair, I haven't asked for the bloody details yet but it is coming. Last night she came by to see the kids and I asked her on the spot to call OM and tell him that its over. She told me she had already had that conversation with him. I told her I needed to hear it. She called him on speakerphone right in front of me. She told him that there is no more relationship with him and that they have to work together but it stays 100% professional. She told him that her priority is getting back with me and being a family again. He said "I understand, I thought we already covered this. I wish you the best." So that made me feel like she had already talked to him about it.
> 
> It was nice of her to do that in front of me, but I did not get the satisfaction from it that I thought I would. I just don't know about this whole process. I feel like I had moved on from this mess and now I am going back to having to verify all of her stories, etc. I remember what those days were like and I'm not sure if I can go through that again.


----------



## Chaparral

You can teach your kids to drive, my daughter says that's when she made my hair turn grey. But the fact is, until they have some close calls they can't comprehend the danger and really learn how dangerous driving is. Experience is the best teacher but you have to survive it. The question before you now is if your family can survive this.

Good luck and prayers for your family. Leadership can be a b!tch.


----------



## bandit.45

Definitely let the divorce go through. Waiting that year again would be a nightmare if it turns out to be false R. 

I can't think of a better litmus test for her than to cut all legal ties between the two of you and then stand back and see how she reacts to being single again. She may do everything in her power to be a wife to you again and keep the family intact, or she will smell freedom in the air and bail.


----------



## Chaparral

If you could change anything before this happened, what would it be?

Have you read the two books linked to below?


----------



## Suspecting2014

dadof2 said:


> Lots of good stuff in here to digest. I appreciate the feedback guys, more than you can imagine.
> 
> I am struggling with the events of the last week or so. Not sure what to make of all of it honestly. I think part of her feels sorry for what she did and realizes that she has made terrible choices. But I also can't get past the seriousness of filing so quickly and the RO.
> 
> We were able to sign off on an agreement to avoid having our temp hearing, and I had put language in there to have mutual RO's. Her only request was that we take that language out, effectively ending the RO. That has been the most initiative she has shown yet in this process.
> 
> I don't know where we go from here. Some posters have mentioned her stopping the D as showing that she wants back in the marriage. But I don't want the D process to stop. To me there's no point in putting that on hold on the hopes of a reconciliation, then have to start our year separation over if R doesn't work.
> 
> She has come clean about the affair, I haven't asked for the bloody details yet but it is coming. Last night she came by to see the kids and I asked her on the spot to call OM and tell him that its over. She told me she had already had that conversation with him. I told her I needed to hear it. She called him on speakerphone right in front of me. She told him that there is no more relationship with him and that they have to work together but it stays 100% professional. She told him that her priority is getting back with me and being a family again. He said "I understand, I thought we already covered this. I wish you the best." So that made me feel like she had already talked to him about it.
> 
> It was nice of her to do that in front of me, but I did not get the satisfaction from it that I thought I would. I just don't know about this whole process. I feel like I had moved on from this mess and now I am going back to having to verify all of her stories, etc. I remember what those days were like and I'm not sure if I can go through that again.


Be careful! very careful!

Of course knowing that they are not longer togueter is big, but is just a small brick in the wall she must built.

Before start talking to her everyday, making plans and demanding stuff GET THE D DONE!

Do not sleep with her until D is fully signed, and of course a STD test.

Take your time, make her know that win you back will hard work. She took you for granted once dont make the same mystake!


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

dadof2 said:


> Lots of good stuff in here to digest. I appreciate the feedback guys, more than you can imagine.
> 
> I am struggling with the events of the last week or so. Not sure what to make of all of it honestly. I think part of her feels sorry for what she did and realizes that she has made terrible choices. But I also can't get past the seriousness of filing so quickly and the RO.
> 
> We were able to sign off on an agreement to avoid having our temp hearing, and I had put language in there to have mutual RO's. Her only request was that we take that language out, effectively ending the RO. That has been the most initiative she has shown yet in this process.
> 
> I don't know where we go from here. Some posters have mentioned her stopping the D as showing that she wants back in the marriage. But I don't want the D process to stop. To me there's no point in putting that on hold on the hopes of a reconciliation, then have to start our year separation over if R doesn't work.
> 
> She has come clean about the affair, I haven't asked for the bloody details yet but it is coming. Last night she came by to see the kids and I asked her on the spot to call OM and tell him that its over. She told me she had already had that conversation with him. I told her I needed to hear it. She called him on speakerphone right in front of me. She told him that there is no more relationship with him and that they have to work together but it stays 100% professional. She told him that her priority is getting back with me and being a family again. He said "I understand, I thought we already covered this. I wish you the best." So that made me feel like she had already talked to him about it.
> 
> It was nice of her to do that in front of me, but I did not get the satisfaction from it that I thought I would. I just don't know about this whole process. I feel like I had moved on from this mess and now I am going back to having to verify all of her stories, etc. I remember what those days were like and I'm not sure if I can go through that again.


Wow, I sure know how that would have felt for me, because I lived some of that. By the time she shows true remorse, assuming that's what this is (and that's a big and somewhat dangerous assumption), you're not so sure you want the prize anymore. Like that old song:

"Youre lookin good, its hard to fight it
But no use explainin, Ive already decided
That livin with you, its worse than without you
I wont spend a lifetime a-worryin about you"

Recovery may still be possible, but it's going 2 be difficult. And her ease at getting in2 an affair will dog you for the rest of your life, no matter how good things are. I'm 61, the affair ended years ago, and I speak from experience.

-ol' 2long


----------



## turnera

If she's not willing to pursue you consistently for a year after the divorce is final, you're just a convenience to her.


----------



## LongWalk

But Turnera, she will need some sort of encouragement to know that she is on track, won't she?

Do you think she will cough up access to her email, social media and phone?


----------



## turnera

I'm not saying for him to ignore her for a year. I meant that, if she was serious about restoring a relationship, she should be willing to date him from another home, at her own expense, for a year, forsaking any other men. IF she can do that, maybe I'd believe she was serious. Most people don't have what it takes to do that unless they are dead serious on getting back together. It's a good litmus test. And yes, she should be providing him access to her electronics that entire year to PROVE that she's now being reliable.


----------



## tom67

turnera said:


> I'm not saying for him to ignore her for a year. I meant that, if she was serious about restoring a relationship, she should be willing to date him from another home, at her own expense, for a year, forsaking any other men. IF she can do that, maybe I'd believe she was serious. Most people don't have what it takes to do that unless they are dead serious on getting back together. It's a good litmus test. And yes, she should be providing him access to her electronics that entire year to PROVE that she's now being reliable.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

LongWalk said:


> But Turnera, she will need some sort of encouragement to know that she is on track, won't she?
> 
> Do you think she will cough up access to her email, social media and phone?


Before that, I would think that the phone call 2 the OM would have been dis2rbing.

They already had that conversation: In other words, the affair was their private business and concluded on their terms for their benefit.

When my wife wanted 2 contact Rat Meat after the affair was over, ostensibly 2 inform him that she would only have professional contact with him, it was clear she was more concerned about what he might do than how I might feel about them working on projects 2gether in fu2re. So I said "your life is none of his business and his is none of yours." At the time, it didn't help much but it was a start. What really 2rned things around for us was when I told her flat out "I'll never go through that again for anybody." If she wanted 2 continue contact then I wanted out. Period.

Your WW should have insisted that one of them leave the job immediately and that they have no contact ever again. No wishing the other a good life or well or ILY or any of that sh!t.

-ol' 2long


----------



## badmemory

dadof2 said:


> She told him that there is no more relationship with him and that *they have to work together but it stays 100% professional.*


Should *NOT* be acceptable if you decide to R.


----------



## LongWalk

TAM legend ReGroup wanted to get back together with his cheating wife – who was a school teacher having an affair with a teacher – upped his sex ranking by remaking himself. He stopped being a doormat. His wife put feelers out and complained that he wasn't "fighting for her".

Well, how was he to fight when she was living with OM?

Dadof2 seems to have burned down the affair through exposure. For sure he does not want his wife/stbxw working with OM. That is why Cheaterville will make OM want to leave the school. Let OM seek a transfer. Drive him off. That will help clear his WW's head.

By the way, did they used the school email addresses to communicate during the affair? Asst principal OM could be dismissed for it. As for Dof2's WW she could sue for sexual harassment. This approach might sound aggressive but it is all about changing perceptions. Dof2's wife needs cleansing. Primarily this is an internal process but she can use some help.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

She will need to do some HEAVY lifting. The question remains, how long will she be willing to do it?

She pretty much left you for this guy. She can tell you that she he wanted to be with her, or marry he and she didn't want that and left him. BUT she left you for him. There's no denying that.

She could leave you again in the future.

If she wants to R, I would tell her that part of you also wants to R. But the part of you that took a knife through the heart has the upper hand.

So you will continue to move on the D along with moving on with an R. You would like nothing more than to stay married to her and raise your children together. You also know that you will never, ever fully trust her again. So you'll have to work on both and wait to see which way is the right way.

If she pushes back on you not stopping the D right away, then I feel that she's only thinking of her self. That the OM wasn't Mr Right, but Mr Rightnow and she is likely to do the same thing again down the road.

If she moves back in, I would have a few VARs planted at the house and one in her car. I know it's sneaky, but you have good reasons not to trust her and you'll find out if she's really truly in R to stay with you, or just to suite her own needs and pick a better time(OM) to leave you again.

Don't get me wrong. I wish nothing more for her to be truly remorseful and wanting to stay with you. I've just read too many threads here that the BS comes back a year later and tells us that it was all a ploy. The WS either never broke it of with the OM/OW(she still works with him, right?...), or just waited for a more opportune time to leave again.


----------



## dadof2

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> She will need to do some HEAVY lifting. The question remains, how long will she be willing to do it?
> 
> She pretty much left you for this guy. She can tell you that she he wanted to be with her, or marry he and she didn't want that and left him. BUT she left you for him. There's no denying that.
> 
> She could leave you again in the future.
> 
> If she wants to R, I would tell her that part of you also wants to R. But the part of you that took a knife through the heart has the upper hand.
> 
> So you will continue to move on the D along with moving on with an R. You would like nothing more than to stay married to her and raise your children together. You also know that you will never, ever fully trust her again. So you'll have to work on both and wait to see which way is the right way.
> 
> If she pushes back on you not stopping the D right away, then I feel that she's only thinking of her self. That the OM wasn't Mr Right, but Mr Rightnow and she is likely to do the same thing again down the road.
> 
> If she moves back in, I would have a few VARs planted at the house and one in her car. I know it's sneaky, but you have good reasons not to trust her and you'll find out if she's really truly in R to stay with you, or just to suite her own needs and pick a better time(OM) to leave you again.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I wish nothing more for her to be truly remorseful and wanting to stay with you. I'*ve just read too many threads here that the BS comes back a year later and tells us that it was all a ploy. The WS either never broke it of with the OM/OW(she still works with him, right?...), or just waited for a more opportune time to leave again*.


Yes this is what I am skeptical of. I have read back through a lot of old threads trying to see where things went right and wrong for others.

I spoke with my PI today and now that the RO is off I am going to have the PI place a GPS tracker on her vehicle. If things move forward towards and attempt at R, I will try to get a VAR in the vehicle also.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> Yes this is what I am skeptical of. I have read back through a lot of old threads trying to see where things went right and wrong for others.
> 
> I spoke with my PI today and now that the RO is off I am going to have the PI place a GPS tracker on her vehicle. If things move forward towards and attempt at R, I will try to get a VAR in the vehicle also.


Yep like Reagan said "trust but verify"


----------



## dubsey

dadof2 said:


> I spoke with my PI today and now that the RO is off I am going to have the PI place a GPS tracker on her vehicle. If things move forward towards and attempt at R, I will try to get a VAR in the vehicle also.


No reason you can't divorce and R at the same time. I have a set of friends who divorced due to his infidelity on a business trip. One time thing. They divorced, within months, they chose to live together and raise their family. Very happy. The kicker is, she'll never re-marry him - she can now leave, freely, whenever she wants with no more paperwork, lawyers, etc. He's ok with it - insists he'll never ever put her in position to want to leave again.

Works for them - just something to consider.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Just wondering how your parents now view the WW? Are they on board with potentially reconciling or will that be another relationship that might be difficult to mend?


----------



## tom67

dubsey said:


> No reason you can't divorce and R at the same time. I have a set of friends who divorced due to his infidelity on a business trip. One time thing. They divorced, within months, they chose to live together and raise their family. Very happy. The kicker is, she'll never re-marry him - she can now leave, freely, whenever she wants with no more paperwork, lawyers, etc. He's ok with it - insists he'll never ever put her in position to want to leave again.
> 
> Works for them - just something to consider.


If they r this would be ideal for Do2.


----------



## Squeakr

dubsey said:


> No reason you can't divorce and R at the same time. I have a set of friends who divorced due to his infidelity on a business trip. One time thing. They divorced, within months, they chose to live together and raise their family. Very happy. The kicker is, she'll never re-marry him - she can now leave, freely, whenever she wants with no more paperwork, lawyers, etc. He's ok with it - insists he'll never ever put her in position to want to leave again.
> 
> Works for them - just something to consider.


Technically this is not R. This may be considered forgiveness, but it is not R, as the original betrayed relationship was terminated and a new and different relationship was started/ formed.


----------



## Chaparral

I think the best part is when posom said he thought they had already discussed what she was telling him. It sounds like she had already made up her mind to dump him and she had already told him to get lost and not be messing with her.

What he said sounds like he was confused as to why she was repeating herself.

Assuming you can work through this and previous issues, it looks to me like she knows she made a monumental mistake.


----------



## Suspecting2014

Chaparral said:


> I think the best part is when posom said he thought they had already discussed what she was telling him. It sounds like she had already made up her mind to dump him and she had already told him to get lost and not be messing with her.
> 
> What he said sounds like he was confused as to why she was repeating herself.
> 
> Assuming you can work through this and previous issues, it looks to me like she knows she made a monumental mistake.


She knows she made a huge mistake, but I think she believes can get Dadof2 with out any work.

Dad, is there any chance your father can get POSOM fired? 
Why don't you ask her to put a RO on the OMPOS? This will proof . She is a very good liar not afraid to lie at court so this time she lies for you. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## azteca1986

dadof2 excuse me for just dipping into your earlier threads. And I apologise too for the editorial bias with the bolding.



dadof2 said:


> About a month ago it came to light that she had been texting and seeing a coworker after hours. She is a school teacher and this guy is the PE coach who was running a workout group of 5-6 ladies after school. *Once caught, she admitted that they had kissed once.*
> 
> She was very apologetic for about 2 days, and then began blaming me for pushing her to this point. She started telling me things that I do that bother her that I had no clue about. She says I am too controlling and that I am threatened by her independence. (She just went back to work this year.) I began apologizing and telling her that I want to work on things and we agreed to see a marriage counselor. *She also agreed to stop contacting the other man*, and based on a later check of her deleted messages, she had not been contacting him, other than seeing him at work. She had stopped working out in the afternoons with the group also.
> 
> The first night without kids she says that the girls from work want to have a girls night out...T*hey wound up going to a different place than where they said they would go, and the other man's truck was also there.*
> 
> She stayed at a friend's house that night and the next day told me she wanted a trial separation. She said she needed some space away from me and that *we were not friends anymore.*
> 
> While she was in the process of moving, she changed all of her passwords,* removed all pictures of us together from her Facebook, *and opened her own separate bank account. She kept her same phone for the time being.
> 
> The first week went as well as could be expected... She also made a significant withdrawal from our savings and put it in her new account... She said the money withdrawal was a safety net in case she had an emergency and didn't want to have to "ask" me for money.
> 
> *I accused her of taking the savings to pay for a lawyer, which she denied. *I also got upset about the new phone number saying that it seems like she is hiding something.
> 
> *She said that is precisely why she changed numbers because she didn't want me harassing people that she was calling*.





dadof2 said:


> Well I checked the online court records and can see that she has filed a petition for divorce. I have not been served yet but I assume it will come any day.
> 
> When she moved out she told everyone it was only temporary and that she needed some space for a few months. How quickly that changed! *Not even 3 weeks has passed and she already filed.* She has not told me anything and her parents have said they haven't heard anything either.





dadof2 said:


> The secretary at my attorney's office was able to get me a copy of the petition.
> 
> A few of the highlights:
> - Joint custody 50/50 schedule with her being the domiciiary parent
> 
> - Child support based on state laws to be paid twice a month (no $ amount listed)
> 
> - All insurance policies, coverages, and beneficiaries to remain the same during separation
> 
> - She does not have sufficient income for maintenace, requests interim spousal support permanent spousal support in due course. In lieu of interim spousal support, she asks that I pay all insurance policies and daycare costs.
> 
> - *restraining order on community property*
> 
> *- restraining order for harassment. Says she fears for her safety and that of children. I cannot be within 100 yards of her, her house, her employment and cannot contact her. *Asks for permanent injunction in due course
> 
> - all attorney fees paid from community property
> 
> *- asks the court to order me a mental evaluation for anger management issues.*
> 
> It also lists a joint custody and visitation plan. Spells out holidays and birthdays as well as summer vacations, etc. Very detailed.
> 
> *She obviously did her homework, and is trying to paint herself as a helpless victim of physical and mental abuse, but makes no specific allegations.*


Usually what we see here (over and over again, sadly) is a slow build up of circumstances that plays out like the War in the European Theatre; first Anchluss, then the Sudentanland and finally the invasion of Poland. We can all see what's coming as it plays out.

What you faced was a sneak attack of Pearl Harbour proportions. In three weeks you went from a demand of a trial separation to divorce & RO filed. Your (f)WW left you for the POSOM, took your family from you and then spent the summer openly with the POSOM happily blending families. You've handled this brutal situation amazingly well, I must say.



dadof2 said:


> We dove in headfirst to the affair, and I said that she had never even acknowledged the affair to me. She finally did, and she said she was ashamed and sorry. I asked her how/why it ended, and *she said because OM wanted to get serious and she realized that she didn't want that.*


This raises a couple of questions for me:

1. What the h3ll could the POSOM put on the table that could make this situation from her perspective "get serious". What else is there to do?
2. How can she see what she did as anything other than 'serious'?

Now most of the poor BS's we see here have to deal with the acute pain of betrayal and I'm sorry you have to deal with that too. But on top of that you have deal with the fact that your WW is ruthless. She treated you and your young children with utter disregard. Most WS throw their marriages away, but in your case she had no qualms from taking your children, your life away from you and putting the legal steps in place so that there was nothing you could do about it.

Ruthless.

I have a young family too. There are no easy choices for you. Just ask yourself why you would want to even attempt to R with a woman who has shown herself to be capable of doing this to you.


----------



## Suspecting2014

azteca1986 said:


> dadof2 excuse me for just dipping into your earlier threads. And I apologise too for the editorial bias with the bolding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Usually what we see here (over and over again, sadly) is a slow build up of circumstances that plays out like the War in the European Theatre; first Anchluss, then the Sudentanland and finally the invasion of Poland. We can all see what's coming as it plays out.
> 
> What you faced was a sneak attack of Pearl Harbour proportions. In three weeks you went from a demand of a trial separation to divorce & RO filed. Your (f)WW left you for the POSOM, took your family from you and then spent the summer openly with the POSOM happily blending families. You've handled this brutal situation amazingly well, I must say.
> 
> This raises a couple of questions for me:
> 
> 1. What the h3ll could the POSOM put on the table that could make this situation from her perspective "get serious". What else is there to do?
> 2. How can she see what she did as anything other than 'serious'?
> 
> Now most of the poor BS's we see here have to deal with the acute pain of betrayal and I'm sorry you have to deal with that too. But on top of that you have deal with the fact that your WW is ruthless. She treated you and your young children with utter disregard. Most WS throw their marriages away, but in your case she had no qualms from taking your children, your life away from you and putting the legal steps in place so that there was nothing you could do about it.
> 
> Ruthless.
> 
> I have a young family too. There are no easy choices for you. Just ask yourself why you would want to even attempt to R with a woman who has shown herself to be capable of doing this to you.


Totally agree!

So many questions to answer. 

Among others the break up is not clear at all.

Did she walkaway for om or om came after? 

Her actions speak about a very awake, organized and could mind
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Do2

It sounds like the fog has vastly receded for your wife.

Be patient. And listen.

You can plant a VAR and a tracker. That is ok.

But the real litmus test will be from your wife's actions to repair the damage she brought to your family and marriage.

And yes. Reconciliation is a true leap of faith. Sometimes for both parties. Let your MC help both of you with this.

And if you strongly feel past issues hurt your marriage then the real test for both of you is to discuss these issues, get them out on the table and (both of you) make a conscious effort to address these issues so you have a strong marriage/relationship going forward.

In my mind that is the real test.

Communication is key from both of you.

It takes two to clean up this mess and fix this relationship. Whether you want it or not.

Because if you do divorce you are still tied to this woman through your children.....

For a long time.

HM


----------



## warlock07

dadof2 said:


> A little more on the update...
> 
> Last week she had contacted me a few times about different things, mostly revolving around our son starting school. I could tell she was very meek and fishing for ways to keep the conversations going. She did make an appointment with our MC and followed through with showing up to the appointment yesterday. The MC is a lady that I have been seeing as an IC. We went to a different MC right after DDay, but I was not satisfied with his work. My IC is a licensed Marriage/Family Therapist, so she was fine with STBX coming to a session.
> 
> We both went in together and sat down and the counselor asked why we were here together, and I let STBX start talking. I was very happy with the way the counselor steered the meeting and kept it on the task of why STBX had an affair. STBX was very humble and to my surprise did not make excuses or try to justify her behavior. She did mention that things were not great in the marriage leading up to the affair, and I have to agree with her. The therapist was quick to point out that it still was not an excuse to step out of the marriage.
> 
> We dove in headfirst to the affair, and I said that she had never even acknowledged the affair to me. She finally did, and she said she was ashamed and sorry. I asked her how/why it ended, and she said because OM wanted to get serious and she realized that she didn't want that. She said she still sees him occasionally at work but it is all business. She even mentioned that there is a school in our area that will have an opening for a teacher in her subject at the end of this year. She said she understands that this is on her and that she has to be the one to show remorse and prove that she is trustworthy again.
> 
> I told her that I appreciated everything she said, and that I don't know if I can ever get over what she has done to me and our family. I said I would be open to further conversations, if only to find out if I can live with what has happened. I told her that there may be too much water under the bridge for us to ever be together again. I was honest with her, and I said that there is nothing more I would like than for us to be together again and raising our kids in a happy home. But I also said that I don't know if I can do that knowing what she has done.
> 
> So we are still moving forward with the divorce. As I mentioned in my earlier post, we should be filing our consent judgement this week which settles everything but community property. She asked me afterwards if I would like to continue MC, and I told her that I would be open to it for a few more sessions. She seemed to show remorse, but I am very wary of her apologies because I have heard them before. I plan on keeping the distance we have had lately and watching her actions. I don't know if there is a chance for us to ever be together again, but I feel like I have taken the right steps to prepare myself either way.


Worst case scenario. The limbo. 

Now the burden of marriage is in dadof2's hands(atleast that is what he will believe)


It took her this long to _even_ admit to the affair.
She had a RO against d2. She made up babysitter scenario to cover her lies legally without any shame. She played family with his kids. Her family ended up siding with her. Her first contact was to mislead d2 when he exposed them

And I don't believe her story with the OM either. 

How do you trust this person ever again ?


----------



## tom67

How do you trust this person ever again ?
:iagree:
Something he has to seriously think about.


----------



## warlock07

ariel_angel77 said:


> Okay, I'm going to go against the current here. I think that it was really *mature *of her to initiate MC and it shows she wants to work on the marriage, plus the fact that she ended the affair. I don't think it was an "exit affair". She doesn't want to get serious with him because she wants YOU. I do still think she has a lot of work to go through to win you back. I would lay out to her your conditions of taking her back, which is: A: She needs to apologize for ALL of it very thoroughly (lying, sleeping with him, taking your kids to meet him, lying to her parents about it, the RO, making you look bad for it) and EXPLAIN exactly why she shouldn't have done it and why she will not do it again and do not accept unless she shows full and complete remorse. Let her know you will not accept any less. Also, quitting her job because OM is there. Plus continuing MC and IC for as long as you deem appropriate and applying things you learn in there to your marriage.
> 
> You are in MC. I don't think you guys are over just yet.














So your husband cheats on you and then dumps you, took your kids to play family with another woman, files a false complaint on you and when everything fails, he comes back to you asking for MC. I expect that you will have the same empathy for him


----------



## GusPolinski

Given's OM's "We've been through this already..." response upon being called in front of dadof2, my first thought was something along the lines of "OK... it would have been waaaaay too easy for them to have planned this ahead of time."

Seriously... how many times has it been seen here that a WS has sent a text, e-mail, FB message, etc essentially forewarning the AP to the tune of... "Hey, ignore what I'm about to send you. I'm only sending it to get my husband/wife off my back. Once I've got the wool firmly pulled over his/her eyes, we can take things further underground, and then it's back to business as usual..."...?

Having said all that, dadof2, pay attention to what she's saying and doing, but don't forget about what she's said and done up until this point. Don't let her off the hook for anything. Make her account for all of it. And if something isn't adding up for you, call her on it.


----------



## warlock07

dadof2 said:


> Yes this is what I am skeptical of. I have read back through a lot of old threads trying to see where things went right and wrong for others.
> 
> I spoke with my PI today and now that the RO is off I am going to have the PI place a GPS tracker on her vehicle. If things move forward towards and attempt at R, I will try to get a VAR in the vehicle also.




****!!! If you are VARing and GPsing her, it is already too late. 

Don't get dragged into this sh!t again. Read your posts after you exposed her. Don't get involved again. 

She will/can cheat when she wants to.. With the technology available these days, she just needs to "want to cheat". Maybe 1 year from now. 2 years from now or a 5 years from now. You will never even know. You just can't keep snooping or her or keep her a prisoner.

Just donate the money for PI to something useful.


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

Do you trust her that some time in the future, she won't be better prepared to cheat&get you into legal trouble?


----------



## Suspecting2014

GusPolinski said:


> Given's OM's "We've been through this already..." response upon being called in front of dadof2, my first thought was something along the lines of "OK... it would have been waaaaay too easy for them to have planned this ahead of time."
> 
> Seriously... how many times has it been seen here that a WS has sent a text, e-mail, FB message, etc essentially forewarning the AP to the tune of... "Hey, ignore what I'm about to send you. I'm only sending it to get my husband/wife off my back. Once I've got the wool firmly pulled over his/her eyes, we can take things further underground, and then it's back to business as usual..."...?
> 
> Having said all that, dadof2, pay attention to what she's saying and doing, but don't forget about what she's said and done up until this point. Don't let her off the hook for anything. Make her account for all of it. And if something isn't adding up for you, call her on it.


Don't trust her! Don't believe anything she says! Do not sleep with her! Don't let her move back! 


IMO you should just speak to her in MC until D is completed.then take your time to decide if R. 

As I posted before, ask her to put a RO on OMPOS, this will be a good faith action to show how wrong she was and that she really wanna try R
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

Dadof2's first post if anyone did not read it

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...on-now-wife-wants-no-contact.html#post8679338

Her manipulation and lies were immense


----------



## dadof2

I agree, there is a lot of history and a lot of water already under the bridge between us. I honestly don't know where this will go. I am very skeptical of things and am taking it one day at a time. I think I have taken the right course up until now with a lot of help from the forum. I plan on continuing that as we go forward.

STBX's birthday is in 2 days. I will have the kids over the weekend so her parents are coming in town tomorrow to take her and kids out to eat. She asked if I wanted to join, and I declined. I will get her a card from the kids but I don't plan on getting her any bday gifts this year...


----------



## happyman64

dadof2 said:


> I agree, there is a lot of history and a lot of water already under the bridge between us. I honestly don't know where this will go. I am very skeptical of things and am taking it one day at a time. I think I have taken the right course up until now with a lot of help from the forum. I plan on continuing that as we go forward.
> 
> STBX's birthday is in 2 days. I will have the kids over the weekend so her parents are coming in town tomorrow to take her and kids out to eat. She asked if I wanted to join, and I declined. I will get her a card from the kids but I don't plan on getting her any bday gifts this year...


That's cool.

Then be proactive and take your inlaws out for an iced tea.

Without their daughter, your wife.

Ask them what they think of this situation. Ask them for the truth.

Just listen.

Then ask them this

"If I decide to to reconcile with XXXX will the two of you support us in this effort?"

You do not have to do this alone. But having their buy in sends a strong message to your wife.

And by you asking your inlaws for their moral support also sends a strong message to their entire family.

It is all about communication. No matter what you decide to do.

Use all of your assets Do2.

HM


----------



## Suspecting2014

dadof2 said:


> I agree, there is a lot of history and a lot of water already under the bridge between us. I honestly don't know where this will go. I am very skeptical of things and am taking it one day at a time. I think I have taken the right course up until now with a lot of help from the forum. I plan on continuing that as we go forward.
> 
> STBX's birthday is in 2 days. I will have the kids over the weekend so her parents are coming in town tomorrow to take her and kids out to eat. *She asked if I wanted to join, and I declined. I will get her a card from the kids but I don't plan on getting her any bday gifts this year*...


Good!

Look, it is your choice just take your time, don't hurry up.

IMO you should not talk alot to her, this way you can remain strong until D is complete btw when do you expect it to be done?


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> I agree, there is a lot of history and a lot of water already under the bridge between us. I honestly don't know where this will go. I am very skeptical of things and am taking it one day at a time. I think I have taken the right course up until now with a lot of help from the forum. I plan on continuing that as we go forward.
> 
> STBX's birthday is in 2 days. I will have the kids over the weekend so her parents are coming in town tomorrow to take her and kids out to eat. She asked if I wanted to join, and I declined. I will get her a card from the kids but I don't plan on getting her any bday gifts this year...


Ya know, I went back and reread a lot of your posts and this was a very cold blooded betrayal. Not a ONS fallen into, but she left you fully for another guy. She obliterated the 'family' and lied about it badly. Now that she has decided her and the OM aren't going to make a go of it, she is offering up some meek remorse and seemingly expecting you to do some of the heavy lifting.

Now, far be it from me to talk you out of R as it is a nobel goal, but I just can't help but get the feeling that you are either being played or are plan B until another wonderlust comes along. I mean, it certainly isn't what I think of as genuine remorse. More like saving face after a serious betrayal.

Were we out over a beverage and you asked my advice, I'd say to continue with the D and play it very slow and cool on the R. I would disagree with your decision to use a GPS and VAR at this point as there really is no need for it. Concentrate your efforts on being a good dad, keeping yourself emotionally happy and move forward with your life. If your stbx is really wanting to R, I think it is incumbent upon her to do the heavy lifting. All of it. Let her prove to you that she is deeply remorseful and actually desires you and your relationship as opposed to trying to make amends only. I think I would also counsel you that as easily as she did this once, she seems the sort to easily do it twice and act accordingly.


----------



## bigfoot

Dadof2,

Whatever you do, DO NOT sleep with her. Perhaps your state has a concept called "condonation". I think that's the phrase. It happened to Evander Holyfield, his wife used that to gain an advantage in the divorce. Look it up, learn it, live it. Basically, by sleeping or living with them, you mess up the divorce. She knows you, knows what works for you and knows how to get you all hot and bothered. The honeypot is a trap. Take care of yourself a few times before you ever are alone with her.

Next, there is nothing wrong with evaluating the new developments, but you cannot do so without considering all of the past stuff that has happened. At a minimum, she needs to explain how / why she went all KRAMER VS.KRAMER on you. Since you know that she has that ability to go for your throat without warning or mercy, you cannot trust anything she says. Once divorce is final, then sleeping with her or doing anything does not disadvantage you-legally speaking. If there is no angle for her to work, then you can assess her better.

Finally, I just want to re-affirm my belief that her actions and words are not consistent with the history given. Something else is going on. Maybe OM cheated on her and she is trying to make him jealous or hurt him. He did something to repel her. That fits the narrative. After all, why would he just say, "I thought that we discussed this already"? Those aren't the words of a man who wants more from a woman. He would have asked if she was sure. he would have said, "let's talk about this". A man who wants more commitment from a woman does not concede her leaving him. Hell, look at yourself! It could be a trap, but you have to look at what she could gain from that. I tend to think its more of a dispute between them. She not only left you, she tried to legally eradicate you. Something else is up.

I just want you to position yourself so that you can't lose more money, time with your kids, time for healing, and getting your mind right. Even if you guys work something out, and I cannot fathom why you would want to, you need to do so from a position of strength because trust is gone forever.


----------



## Suspecting2014

bigfoot said:


> Dadof2,
> 
> Whatever you do, DO NOT sleep with her. Perhaps your state has a concept called "condonation". I think that's the phrase. It happened to Evander Holyfield, his wife used that to gain an advantage in the divorce. Look it up, learn it, live it. Basically, by sleeping or living with them, you mess up the divorce. She knows you, knows what works for you and knows how to get you all hot and bothered. The honeypot is a trap. Take care of yourself a few times before you ever are alone with her.
> 
> Next, there is nothing wrong with evaluating the new developments, but you cannot do so without considering all of the past stuff that has happened. At a minimum, she needs to explain how / why she went all KRAMER VS.KRAMER on you. Since you know that she has that ability to go for your throat without warning or mercy, you cannot trust anything she says. Once divorce is final, then sleeping with her or doing anything does not disadvantage you-legally speaking. If there is no angle for her to work, then you can assess her better.
> 
> Finally, I just want to re-affirm my belief that her actions and words are not consistent with the history given. Something else is going on. Maybe OM cheated on her and she is trying to make him jealous or hurt him. He did something to repel her. That fits the narrative. After all, why would he just say, "I thought that we discussed this already"? Those aren't the words of a man who wants more from a woman. He would have asked if she was sure. he would have said, "let's talk about this". A man who wants more commitment from a woman does not concede her leaving him. Hell, look at yourself! It could be a trap, but you have to look at what she could gain from that. I tend to think its more of a dispute between them. She not only left you, she tried to legally eradicate you. Something else is up.
> 
> I just want you to position yourself so that you can't lose more money, time with your kids, time for healing, and getting your mind right. Even if you guys work something out, and I cannot fathom why you would want to, you need to do so from a position of strength because trust is gone forever.


Meet her just in public places, don't let her get into your home, don't enter her home, don't ride in the same car alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

"Heavy lifting" should be defined here as her going all out to convince you that she's no longer in contact with the OM and that she's otherwise worth your effort.

None of this "the marriage was broken" crap. Accept no excuses. The marriage is over, so whether it was broken or one of you was working on it harder than the other is completely moot. The question is, do you have any reason 2 try 2 make a new marriage with this person?

The more I think about the OM's comment on the phone, the more I think they're in cahoots. At the very least, they have agreed upon a privacy between them that continues 2 be none of your business, except 2 the extent that your WW can gaslight you.

I understand the desire 2 snoop some more. I did the same for years. The problem is WHY you're wanting 2 do it. And the uncomfortable answer is that you are hoping - against the evidence - that recovery is possible. But at the same time, you know you can't trust her.

Bet large sums of other peoples' cash that she'll be more careful next time 2 make sure you don't find out what she's up 2.

Finally, and worst of all: This is no way 2 live.

-ol' 2long


----------



## LongWalk

Humans have the capacity to do crazy things to have sexual relationships. How many teenagers have lost their minds, running around with young love that their parents disapproved of? Mostly they are forgiven, for it's part of growing up.

And then it happens to a grown up with responsibility. They are mocked for reverting to adolescence, sacrificing the common welfare of their family for pleasure and ego. It's less forgivable. But if the youth in love is attractive (all the world loves a lover), can a fallen person still be loveable? Can they rediscover their values after making bad choices and mistakes? Can Dadof2's wife find her positive self?

Seems that she is trying, but the road is long. One year post divorce, according to Turnera. That is a significant chunk of the reproductive years left to both of them.

Dof2 is observing. And he is pretty keen. That is why his WW wanted the RO IMO. She did not want his eyes on her. If she wants R, she will want to want to be seen. She will look for shyte tests for herself to prove she is a good bet.

HappyMan's ice tea with the in-laws is brilliant. It gives him a chance to send her a message without exposing the two of them to pressure to commit to R without understanding what it entails. It also takes away the sting of being rejected, which might, if repeated, lead her to give up.


----------



## Chaparral

azteca1986 said:


> dadof2 excuse me for just dipping into your earlier threads. And I apologise too for the editorial bias with the bolding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Usually what we see here (over and over again, sadly) is a slow build up of circumstances that plays out like the War in the European Theatre; first Anchluss, then the Sudentanland and finally the invasion of Poland. We can all see what's coming as it plays out.
> 
> What you faced was a sneak attack of Pearl Harbour proportions. In three weeks you went from a demand of a trial separation to divorce & RO filed. Your (f)WW left you for the POSOM, took your family from you and then spent the summer openly with the POSOM happily blending families. You've handled this brutal situation amazingly well, I must say.
> 
> This raises a couple of questions for me:
> 
> 1. What the h3ll could the POSOM put on the table that could make this situation from her perspective "get serious". What else is there to do?
> 2. How can she see what she did as anything other than 'serious'?
> 
> Now most of the poor BS's we see here have to deal with the acute pain of betrayal and I'm sorry you have to deal with that too. But on top of that you have deal with the fact that your WW is ruthless. She treated you and your young children with utter disregard. Most WS throw their marriages away, but in your case she had no qualms from taking your children, your life away from you and putting the legal steps in place so that there was nothing you could do about it.
> 
> Ruthless.
> 
> I have a young family too. There are no easy choices for you. Just ask yourself why you would want to even attempt to R with a woman who has shown herself to be capable of doing this to you.


I am glad you pointed out that sequence of events. I think it points to the fact that his wayward wife did not orchestrate this series of events. No wayward here has ever come close to doing this. Someone put her up to it and controlled this behind the scene. POSOM? LAWYERS? FAMILY? FRIEND? ONLINE WEWBSITE? I expect it was OM. But it would be my first priority to find out who drew up this elaborate plan.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

I know that some here think that using VARs and GPS tracking are just signs that this relationship is too far gone to be saved in any way.

Maybe, but I know I was where DO2 is once apon a time and I had to know for sure. Yes, because there are kids involved and they've been together so long, it's tough to walk away. Even after the horrible things she has done to him. Some of us just have to know for sure.

I think that the GPS and VARs will get him his answer. And it'll be in weeks, not months.

DO2, MAKE SURE that you attach that VAR under her seat securly and hide the others well. If she finds one of them and she was indeed trying to R for the right reasons... It won't end well.

With that said, I'm pretty skeptical of her recent turn around and suspect of her motives. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. But she was so far gone that I have have a hard time believing that the main, or only reason that she wants to R is she wants you back.

ALWAYS be on your guard. She knows you, knows what to do and say to try and get you to do what she wants. The NO driving alone together, her staying at your hous and ESPECIALLY sex is a smart move. At least for the next few months. You'll have a better idea if she being genuine, or not by then.


----------



## Chaparral

Don't discount the fact that Posom, his kids, your kids, and your wayward wife in a trailer in the summertime, took the glow off the greener grass, the rainbows and the unicorns. I feel there was a come to Jesus moment and someone is wondering what the hell has she done.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> Don't discount the fact that Posom, his kids, your kids, and your wayward wife in a trailer in the summertime, took the glow off the greener grass, the rainbows and the unicorns. I feel there was a come to Jesus moment and someone is wondering what the hell has she done.


:lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myhnAZFR1po


----------



## Turin74

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*

Agree with all the above, especially the quoted bit. 
With respect to OP and his live, I'd summarise all critical points of the status quo it as following (apologies for possible triggers) :

1) Considering she was in a fully committed relationship with OM, what was that 'serious' bit, that changed her mind. Did OM wanted kids asap. A tattoo "property of OM" on her shoulder? 2) the latest "I want R" story is inconsistent with her actions at the beginning (separation, divorce, RO). Way too decisive and calculated for the "fog". So I'd ask (maybe at mc) something like "I understand you badly wanted the marriage to end, and end quickly. Happens, people grew apart. I understand things didn't work out with OM. Happens, not all relationships, yet alone affairs end up with living together happily ever after. What I don't understand is sudden change of mind from wanting to end the marriage and never see me again back to wanting to be married to/with me. Do you want to be just married - enjoy financial security, being with kids and right social status - or do you want to be with me (hint - even potentially without marriage). How can you prove latter is the case"
3) if 1) and 2) are resolved, and her live goes "back to normal" with you and there is solid certainly this in not plan b and she won't cheat again (if there is such thing) , does she understand how she should compensate you and kids for all pain in suffering? In a way this is not dissimilar to the discussion between proponents of rehabilitation vs punishment concepts of penal law. One argument that "rehabilitation" camp can't beat is "if there is a magic pill that would 100% ensure that a killer won't ever kill again and no danger to society any more - would you release him next day after hearing".? If all goes business as usual, OP has endured all of this for nothing? 

Probably my longest post ever. 




GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> With that said, I'm pretty skeptical of her recent turn around and suspect of her motives. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. But she was so far gone that I have have a hard time believing that the main, or only reason that she wants to R is she wants you back.


----------



## jim123

dadof2 said:


> Lots of good stuff in here to digest. I appreciate the feedback guys, more than you can imagine.
> 
> I am struggling with the events of the last week or so. Not sure what to make of all of it honestly. I think part of her feels sorry for what she did and realizes that she has made terrible choices. But I also can't get past the seriousness of filing so quickly and the RO.
> 
> We were able to sign off on an agreement to avoid having our temp hearing, and I had put language in there to have mutual RO's. Her only request was that we take that language out, effectively ending the RO. That has been the most initiative she has shown yet in this process.
> 
> I don't know where we go from here. Some posters have mentioned her stopping the D as showing that she wants back in the marriage. But I don't want the D process to stop. To me there's no point in putting that on hold on the hopes of a reconciliation, then have to start our year separation over if R doesn't work.
> 
> She has come clean about the affair, I haven't asked for the bloody details yet but it is coming. Last night she came by to see the kids and I asked her on the spot to call OM and tell him that its over. She told me she had already had that conversation with him. I told her I needed to hear it. She called him on speakerphone right in front of me. She told him that there is no more relationship with him and that they have to work together but it stays 100% professional. She told him that her priority is getting back with me and being a family again. He said "I understand, I thought we already covered this. I wish you the best." So that made me feel like she had already talked to him about it.
> 
> It was nice of her to do that in front of me, but I did not get the satisfaction from it that I thought I would. I just don't know about this whole process. I feel like I had moved on from this mess and now I am going back to having to verify all of her stories, etc. I remember what those days were like and I'm not sure if I can go through that again.


She is the one in control at the moment. Whether or not you want to D does not matter. If she does not stop the D then it will happen. All you can do is impact time and terms.

She also did the separation too. 

I am sure the school told them to cool it or they are gone now.

Your wife is only a second you teacher and will not be offered a contract for next year. They will not deal with this now that it is public knowledge.

She will play nice but continue the D.


----------



## tom67

jim123 said:


> She is the one in control at the moment. Whether or not you want to D does not matter. If she does not stop the D then it will happen. All you can do is impact time and terms.
> 
> She also did the separation too.
> 
> I am sure the school told them to cool it or they are gone now.
> 
> Your wife is only a second you teacher and will not be offered a contract for next year. They will not deal with this now that it is public knowledge.
> 
> She will play nice but continue the D.


:iagree:
Again Do2 start dating and really show her what she is losing.
Then you may see her true colors so to speak.


----------



## loopy lu

Any chance she is reading this?


----------



## thatbpguy

loopy lu said:


> Any chance she is reading this?


We can only hope.


----------



## LongWalk

The truth about what happened my be recorded in the email and text messages of Dof2's wife. And even if that record is very sketchy, she has provide a credible account.

Dof2's wife went for the whole horse, POSOM's kids and everything. It was to be a new life. She was crazy. The sex must have been torrid to cause her to act on the infatuation. What caused it all to evaporate?

Once doubts about that relationship appeared she had to decide whether she wanted Dof2 back. Clearly her instinct has been to retreat back to security. She may acutely want to feel loved by Dof2. She herself must be searching for a way to explaining how they can resume being a couple.

Surely she cannot feel that she can just go home. She knows Dof2 is not a chump.

Dadof2,

By requiring the the NC call you have awoken the hope of reconciliation in your WW. You need a list of gestures from her. She ought to come forward and offer transparency. However, she may not have the initiative.

MC may be the best place to raise this issue. If she hesitates to come clean, you cannot R. In MC you can tell her that you expect the truth about the affair to create fresh wounds and pain. You are willing to face this because it has to be done. If you were simply going to divorce, you wouldn't bother making the effort.

As to hysterical bonding, you have received warnings from several posters not to sleep with your wife. If you ask her to get tested for STD's that implies you are considering sleeping with her. It is also a implicit statement that you are contemplating R.

You should do what you feel comfortable with. Turnera often warns that men are blinded by sex. But if you are aware of what is going on you can avoid a misstep. 

Do you feel attracted to your WW? Do you experience and urge to reclaim her?

re: VAR and GPS
I am not sure I would want to spend money checking on her now. However, if you are going this route, you might as well test it. Once you have these in place, post OM on Cheaterville, anonymously send the link to a half dozen people who are FB with him. He will then contact your WW to try and get it removed. Will she tell you about his call or attempt to meet her?

You need access to her phone. Also, if you have GPS and VAR you may hear it or know if they meet.


----------



## honcho

dadof2 said:


> Lots of good stuff in here to digest. I appreciate the feedback guys, more than you can imagine.
> 
> She has come clean about the affair, I haven't asked for the bloody details yet but it is coming. Last night she came by to see the kids and I asked her on the spot to call OM and tell him that its over. She told me she had already had that conversation with him. I told her I needed to hear it. She called him on speakerphone right in front of me. She told him that there is no more relationship with him and that they have to work together but it stays 100% professional. She told him that her priority is getting back with me and being a family again. He said "I understand, I thought we already covered this. I wish you the best." So that made me feel like she had already talked to him about it.
> 
> It was nice of her to do that in front of me, but I did not get the satisfaction from it that I thought I would. I just don't know about this whole process. I feel like I had moved on from this mess and now I am going back to having to verify all of her stories, etc. I remember what those days were like and I'm not sure if I can go through that again.


Did the phone call feel more staged than anything? His answers to her statements seem more rehearsed than a spur of the moment answer. I just find it odd that she called without putting up more of a struggle about doing it.


----------



## warlock07

Longwalk, did you read his first post



dadof2 said:


> ** LENGTHY FIRST POST**
> 
> My wife and I have been married almost 5 years, we have 2 children ages 3 & 2. Things have been ok lately, not great but I figured we are just dealing with the daily grind of raising 2 kids and both working. We haven't had a lot of alone time with each other lately, but we both are to blame for that. Our sex life has been okay, but almost always initiated by me*. About a month ago it came to light that she had been texting and seeing a coworker after hours. *She is a school teacher and this guy is the PE coach who was running a workout group of 5-6 ladies after school.* Once caught, she admitted that they had kissed once.*
> 
> She was very apologetic for about 2 days, and then began blaming me for pushing her to this point. She started telling me things that I do that bother her that I had no clue about. *She says I am too controlling and that I am threatened by her independence. (*She just went back to work this year.) I began apologizing and telling her that I want to work on things and we agreed to see a marriage counselor. She also agreed to stop contacting the other man, and based on a later check of her deleted messages, she had not been contacting him, other than seeing him at work. She had stopped working out in the afternoons with the group also.
> 
> A week later we were supposed to take a vacation together but she said that things were bad and didn't feel like she would enjoy a vacation, and I understood. We sent the kids to her mom's for the weekend and decided to stay home together and maybe go on a couple dates and work on us. *The first night without kids she says that the girls from work want to have a girls night out.* I reluctantly agreed and asked her just to be honest with me about where they were going and when they would be back. Her friend came and picked her up, and I decided to follow them. I was not comfortable doing it, but I felt like I had to be able to trust her.
> 
> They wound up going to a different place than where they said they would go, and the other man's truck was also there. There was a group of about 10 people from her work there. I waited in the parking lot for 2 hours to see what would happen when she left. She eventually came outside and was obviously very drunk. Her friends were helping her stand up. I drove over and asked her to get in the car.* I then went inside and confronted the man and told him that he wasn't going to ruin my marriage. The whole way home my wife said I was crazy and I stalked her and that nothing was going on between the 2 of them.* She said I don't love her and that she is scared of me. I realize that they weren't there together and nothing was going on that night, but my wife was dishonest about where they were going and that the man wouldn't be there.
> 
> She stayed at a friend's house that night and the next day told me she wanted a trial separation. She said she needed some space away from me and that we were not friends anymore. She said that we needed some time apart and we could eventually start doing family nights with the kids and then she and I could go on dates together and start trying to reconnect. *She told my parents and hers that this was only temporary, and even joked that she would be able to get a lot more help moving when she was ready to come back*. We agreed on *the ground rules of the separation, including finances, seeing others, and contacting each other.* We agreed on no excessive spending, not seeing other people, and feel free to contact anytime, especially about the children.* I helped her find and apartment, helped her move in, and we agreed to share the kids 50/50.* She cleaned out every stitch of clothes she has and everything out of her bathroom.
> 
> *While she was in the process of moving, she changed all of her passwords, removed all pictures of us together from her Facebook, and opened her own separate bank account. She kept her same phone for the time being.
> *
> The first week went as well as could be expected. We texted every few days, and she actually initiated the texts on the nights when I had the kids. I was very careful not to send any sappy texts or be overly apologetic. Then the first weekend she had the kids she went to her parents house 50 miles away and got a new phone number.* She also made a significant withdrawal from our savings and put it in her new account*. *I called her to see what was going on, and she said that the phone was to keep me from going through her bill to see who she had been calling. She said the money withdrawal was a safety net in case she had an emergency and didn't want to have to "ask" me for money.*
> 
> That's when I got upset with her for the first time in this whole process. I accused her of taking the savings to pay for a lawyer, which she denied. I also got upset about the new phone number saying that it seems like she is hiding something. I admitted to her that I tried to look up her bill online but was unsuccessful. *She said that is precisely why she changed numbers because she didn't want me harassing people that she was calling.* *She said she is just trying to fully separate from me so she can find out what she wants*.* She then said she was scared of me and that I couldn't keep us together by threatening her. She said not to call or text anymore and that she did not want *to keep going to marriage counseling. She is a teacher and said that she wants to concentrate on finishing the school year then she will start thinking about our marriage.
> 
> I have tried being the nice guy, and things seemed to be okay the first week of the separation.* Then she changes her phone number,moves money out of savings, says not to call her and quits marriage counseling. *I am just trying to make sense of everything. *I tried talking to her mom about it, but she says that she has to take care of her daughter right now.* She told me to go to counseling and work on my problems. I told her I want our marriage to work out and she said, "Just work on yourself right now." Her parents had been on my "side" when she first wanted separation, but now they seem to be supporting her and not talking to me at all.
> 
> Everything I have read and everyone I have talked to pretty much says that she has made up her mind that its over. I am in limbo right now between trying to make it work and trying to cope with the lost marriage. *She has begun working out after school with the group again, but I have no evidence of her and the other man being alone at anytime.* I am having a hard time trusting her, and tonight (Friday) is the first weekend that she doesn't have the kids and I am scared to death of what she will be doing. I want to know so bad if she is going out and if the other man will be there.
> 
> I have backed off and not contacted her all this week. Our last contact was Sunday, almost a week ago. I sent her a text on Thursday about the kids school and got no response. Obviously I can't do anything else right now. I just wish I knew what her mindset was so I could either move on or keep trying to make it work. I am going to counseling on my own right now. Is there any advice out there on how to deal with my emotions and try to keep my head clear? I am trying to stay busy but I have no motivation at work and am reluctant to do anything socially right now. My whole life was my wife and kids, and now that has been turned upside down.


And this is just the first post.


----------



## Divinely Favored

I would still be recording all conversations for posterity sake. Get her to own up to what she did for your own record and proof to friends and family that this is on her. Even record her in MC sessions. If she wanted to reconcile then she should have no problems seeing the way VP played things and will file sexual harrasment with HR.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SF-FAN

GusPolinski said:


> Given's OM's "We've been through this already..." response upon being called in front of dadof2, my first thought was something along the lines of *"OK... it would have been waaaaay too easy for them to have planned this ahead of time."*
> 
> Seriously... how many times has it been seen here that a WS has sent a text, e-mail, FB message, etc essentially forewarning the AP to the tune of... "Hey, ignore what I'm about to send you. I'm only sending it to get my husband/wife off my back. Once I've got the wool firmly pulled over his/her eyes, we can take things further underground, and then it's back to business as usual..."...?
> 
> Having said all that, dadof2, pay attention to what she's saying and doing, but don't forget about what she's said and done up until this point. Don't let her off the hook for anything. Make her account for all of it. And if something isn't adding up for you, call her on it.


I believe dadof2 requested she call him on the spot so I don't think she had time to send a text or pre-warn the OM.

I totally and completely agree with everyone that dadof2 needs to proceed with caution, however, I also think many of the people here on TAM's view of cheating spouses is very skewed. Though most often than not, a cheating spouse's remorse is "fake," I'm sure there is that small percentage that actually do feel they made a mistake and want their family back.

Dadof2, it is apparent that you still care for your STBX, and she's showing some preliminary effort to possibly R. You know your STBX better than anyone on TAM, therefore trust your gut and your heart. It's your life, not ours. Divorce and sharing custody is a huge pain so if there's any (and I mean ANY) chance at legitimate R, then I'd take it but I wouldn't let your STBX off the hook. I'd take everyone's advice on here and make her show me she really and truly means it when she says she is regretful of what she did.


----------



## tom67

SF-FAN said:


> I believe dadof2 requested she call him on the spot so I don't think she had time to send a text or pre-warn the OM.
> 
> I totally and completely agree with everyone that dadof2 needs to proceed with caution, however, I also think many of the people here on TAM's view of cheating spouses is very skewed. Though most often than not, a cheating spouse's remorse is "fake," I'm sure there is that small percentage that actually do feel they made a mistake and want their family back.
> 
> Dadof2, it is apparent that you still care for your STBX, and she's showing some preliminary effort to possibly R. You know your STBX better than anyone on TAM, therefore trust your gut and your heart. It's your life, not ours. Divorce and sharing custody is a huge pain so if there's any (and I mean ANY) chance at legitimate R, then I'd take it but I wouldn't let your STBX off the hook. I'd take everyone's advice on here and make her show me she really and truly means it when she says she is regretful of what she did.


SF the RO may be a deal breaker for him.
Moving out and having an affair is one thing getting a false RO and spreading lies is malicious beyond belief.
I like the gps and var and that he is taking his time. The ball is totally in her court.
Hey he can date her along with a few others in his harem.:lol::rofl:


----------



## Chaparral

tom67 said:


> SF the RO may be a deal breaker for him.
> Moving out and having an affair is one thing getting a false RO and spreading lies is malicious beyond belief.
> I like the gps and var and that he is taking his time. The ball is totally in her court.
> Hey he can date her along with a few others in his harem.:lol::rofl:


This depends on her personallity. Was the RO her idea or was she being manipulated by a seasoned cheater. No doubt the cheating is on her. From what I've read here I just don't think she's that slick to pull all the things she did. No other cheating wife here has been this thourough. Meaner but not so well planned. This reeks of someone that's been around the block a few times.

Only op can make that call and say if his is totally out of character for her.

I would like to know more about her medications and why she is taking them to see if there is a connection.


----------



## Nucking Futs

SF-FAN said:


> I believe dadof2 requested she call him on the spot so I don't think she had time to send a text or pre-warn the OM.
> 
> I totally and completely agree with everyone that dadof2 needs to proceed with caution, however, I also think many of the people here on TAM's view of cheating spouses is very skewed. Though most often than not, a cheating spouse's remorse is "fake," I'm sure there is that small percentage that actually do feel they made a mistake and want their family back.
> 
> Dadof2, it is apparent that you still care for your STBX, and she's showing some preliminary effort to possibly R. You know your STBX better than anyone on TAM, therefore *trust your gut and your heart*. It's your life, not ours. Divorce and sharing custody is a huge pain so if there's any (and I mean ANY) chance at legitimate R, then I'd take it but I wouldn't let your STBX off the hook. I'd take everyone's advice on here and make her show me she really and truly means it when she says she is regretful of what she did.


Trust your gut, but your heart is an idiot that works only from emotion.


----------



## Nucking Futs

tom67 said:


> SF the RO may be a deal breaker for him.
> Moving out and having an affair is one thing getting a false RO and spreading lies is malicious beyond belief.
> I like the gps and var and that he is taking his time. The ball is totally in her court.
> Hey he can date her along with a few others in his harem.:lol::rofl:


I would need her to publicly admit to lying to get that ro and accept any consequences that come from it. Letting her claims of his abuse stand would not fly for me.


----------



## just got it 55

Nucking Futs said:


> I would need her to publicly admit to lying to get that ro and accept any consequences that come from it. *Letting her claims of his abuse stand would not fly for me.*


Absooo fvcking lutly

This speaks to what kind of man dad is and what kind of POS his WW is. Make sure this is clear to everybody.She must be willing to In public admit to this and accept public opinion.AKA "any consequences"

This is the very first priority for and thought of R

55


----------



## GusPolinski

SF-FAN said:


> I believe dadof2 requested she call him on the spot so I don't think she had time to send a text or pre-warn the OM.


Eh... hard to say. This has been going on for months. It would have been all too easy for her to to pre-stage this.

Am I being paranoid? Probably. Either way...



SF-FAN said:


> I totally and completely agree with everyone that dadof2 needs to proceed with caution, however, *I also think many of the people here on TAM's view of cheating spouses is very skewed.*


I'd definitely agree w/ that. Hell, I'm probably one of them.



SF-FAN said:


> *Though most often than not, a cheating spouse's remorse is "fake,"* I'm sure there is that small percentage that actually do feel they made a mistake and want their family back.


I would't necessarily agree w/ that. Change "more often that not" (assuming that's what you meant) to "in many (though not necessarily most) cases", and I'd agree. I'd also agree w/ the part not in bold, though the percentage is probably larger.

Either way, the key is this... at what point did the BS decide that he wanted his/her spouse and family back? If that didn't happen until AFTER things didn't work out w/ the AP, then that's not worth much IMO.



SF-FAN said:


> Dadof2, it is apparent that you still care for your STBX, and she's showing some preliminary effort to possibly R. You know your STBX better than anyone on TAM, therefore trust your gut and your heart. It's your life, not ours. Divorce and sharing custody is a huge pain so if there's any (and I mean ANY) chance at legitimate R, then I'd take it but I wouldn't let your STBX off the hook. I'd take everyone's advice on here and make her show me she really and truly means it when she says she is regretful of what she did.


:iagree:

Having said that, the RO would remain a *very* sore point w/ me.


----------



## happyman64

dof2

Take your Inlaws out and ask them for their support. 

Without your wife's knowledge or her being there. 

Then watch their reaction. Listen to what they have to say. 

And elaborate on what your issues were before her affair?

HM
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> This depends on her personallity. Was the RO her idea or was she being manipulated by a seasoned cheater. No doubt the cheating is on her. From what I've read here I just don't think she's that slick to pull all the things she did. No other cheating wife here has been this thourough. Meaner but not so well planned. This reeks of someone that's been around the block a few times.
> 
> Only op can make that call and say if his is totally out of character for her.
> 
> I would like to know more about her medications and why she is taking them to see if there is a connection.


Chap that's why I said she needs to clean up.
I remember one of them was xanax which is an anti anxiety and is highly addictive only for temporary use.
Do2 said she is taking that another one along with a bottle of wine most every night.
Like I said slow kill and at least brain fry.


----------



## dadof2

Her mom actually called me yesterday. She said that STBX was very encouraged by our marriage counseling. She also said that me making her call OM in front of me made her very scared and nervous. MIL said that I need to be careful because STBX was scared around me before and that's why she left.

They obviously have bought the "abuse" claim hook line and sinker. I have thought about taking them to eat if everything begins to work out, but its too early for that now. And her mom is very immature, so the minute I would ask them for a meeting she would be on the horn with STBX telling her all about it. I learned very early on in this process that MIL is planted firmly in her corner and I can't get anywhere with her. This is between STBX and me. Her mom just likes to stir up the drama and keeps telling me everything I have done wrong without saying a word about dear old daughter's behavior.

I am taking things slow, we aren't talking everyday. STBX sent me a text yesterday saying that she knows it will be a tough road but she's willing to put the work in. I told her I appreciated that. Now its just a matter of waiting and watching, but I am going on with my life. I have dropped about 15 lbs since this started, and bought a lot of new clothes. STBX mentioned when we were leaving therapy that she liked my new jeans, lol. I am signed up to run my first 5K in two weeks so I have been spending a lot of my afternoons without the kids training for that. Just trying to keep my head clear- I feel like a month ago I was in a better spot that I am now. I had moved her sh!t out, told her I wasn't fighting the D anymore, and moving on. Now she wants back in and its got my head spinning on what to do.


----------



## GusPolinski

Wow. You should demand that your wife come clean w/ her family about her true motives behind the RO. That should now be at the very top of your list of demands going forward.


----------



## loyallad

GusPolinski said:


> Wow. You should demand that your wife come clean w/ her family about her true motives behind the RO. That should now be at the very top of your list of demands going forward.


:iagree:

They have to hear it from her.


----------



## loyallad

dadof2 said:


> Her mom actually called me yesterday. She said that STBX was very encouraged by our marriage counseling. She also said that me making her call OM in front of me made her very scared and nervous. MIL said that I need to be careful because STBX was scared around me before and that's why she left.
> 
> They obviously have bought the "abuse" claim hook line and sinker. I have thought about taking them to eat if everything begins to work out, but its too early for that now. And her mom is very immature, so the minute I would ask them for a meeting she would be on the horn with STBX telling her all about it. I learned very early on in this process that MIL is planted firmly in her corner and I can't get anywhere with her. This is between STBX and me. Her mom just likes to stir up the drama and keeps telling me everything I have done wrong without saying a word about dear old daughter's behavior.
> 
> I am taking things slow, we aren't talking everyday. STBX sent me a text yesterday saying that she knows it will be a tough road but she's willing to put the work in. I told her I appreciated that. Now its just a matter of waiting and watching, but I am going on with my life. I have dropped about 15 lbs since this started, and bought a lot of new clothes. STBX mentioned when we were leaving therapy that she liked my new jeans, lol. I am signed up to run my first 5K in two weeks so I have been spending a lot of my afternoons without the kids training for that. Just trying to keep my head clear- I feel like a month ago I was in a better spot that I am now. I had moved her sh!t out, told her I wasn't fighting the D anymore, and moving on. Now she wants back in and its got my head spinning on what to do.


dad I think you need to take a few days off just for yourself. Go some where for a couple of days just you and try to get your head and heart on the same page. Just you and think about where you are headed and think long term.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

dadof2 said:


> Her mom actually called me yesterday. She said that STBX was very encouraged by our marriage counseling. She also said that me making her call OM in front of me made her very scared and nervous. MIL said that I need to be careful because STBX was scared around me before and that's why she left.
> 
> They obviously have bought the "abuse" claim hook line and sinker. I have thought about taking them to eat if everything begins to work out, but its too early for that now. And her mom is very immature, so the minute I would ask them for a meeting she would be on the horn with STBX telling her all about it. I learned very early on in this process that MIL is planted firmly in her corner and I can't get anywhere with her. This is between STBX and me. Her mom just likes to stir up the drama and keeps telling me everything I have done wrong without saying a word about dear old daughter's behavior.
> 
> I am taking things slow, we aren't talking everyday. STBX sent me a text yesterday saying that she knows it will be a tough road but she's willing to put the work in. I told her I appreciated that. Now its just a matter of waiting and watching, but I am going on with my life. I have dropped about 15 lbs since this started, and bought a lot of new clothes. STBX mentioned when we were leaving therapy that she liked my new jeans, lol. I am signed up to run my first 5K in two weeks so I have been spending a lot of my afternoons without the kids training for that. Just trying to keep my head clear- I feel like a month ago I was in a better spot that I am now. I had moved her sh!t out, told her I wasn't fighting the D anymore, and moving on. Now she wants back in and its got my head spinning on what to do.


Approach when you feel safe

Retreat when you feel the spin

Rinse, repeat.... She has to create that safe environment regardless how a future relationship is defined


----------



## jr92gp

GusPolinski said:


> Wow. You should demand that your wife come clean w/ her family about her true motives behind the RO. That should now be at the very top of your list of demands going forward.


:iagree:

And Good Luck. Keep your head clear and when you falter during this process take some time to figure out why and get back to 50k. IMO emotions will cloud your rational side, and your rational side is the most important thing you have right now regarding her.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

When I was reconciling with my H, that was one of the strategies I used, approach and retreat. There were times I didn't retreat fast enough and my frustration blew. So, listen to YOUR heart *without guilt*. SHE is the one who put you in this predicament, therefore she MUST follow YOUR pace on what you can handle and when.


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> I had moved her sh!t out, told her I wasn't fighting the D anymore, and moving on. Now she wants back in and its got my head spinning on what to do.


Dude, how many times, how many ways, do we have to keep saying this to you?

If she REALLY wants you, she will accept the divorce, live on her own, and DATE you and EARN you back. Period. 

If she's not willing to do that, it is proof that you are just her convenience. So finalizing the divorce is _your _sh*t test to HER, to see if she's telling the truth. If she blows up at your path, then she was just manipulating you. Good to know, carry on, start your new life. If, instead, she accepts responsibility, lives alone while continuing to date you (and not ask you for money), dates nobody else...in 6 months to a year, you'll have your answer.

Why is that so hard? Are you just afraid she'll get mad and storm off and REALLY divorce you? If so, you have more problems than you've admitted to yourself.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

dadof2 said:


> Her mom actually called me yesterday. She said that STBX was very encouraged by our marriage counseling. She also said that me making her call OM in front of me made her very scared and nervous. MIL said that I need to be careful because STBX was scared around me before and that's why she left.


This concerns me for a different reason: She's scared either because she thinks you might embarrass her, or worse - she's protective of the OM and "their private relationship" that's none of your business.

If she wants back, she's going 2 have 2 be fully open with you about the affair - so make a point of asking for details that you know she's still keeping from you. See how she responds.

-ol' 2long


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> Her mom actually called me yesterday. She said that STBX was very encouraged by our marriage counseling. She also said that me making her call OM in front of me made her very scared and nervous. MIL said that I need to be careful because STBX was scared around me before and that's why she left..


Did you tell the counselor that you made your wife call the OM? If you have not you need to.

Having her call the OM was actually not a good idea. Any contact at all, especially contact from her is bad. Instead what's advised is that the WS writes a no contact letter. There are specific things that go in it to set the stage for no contact. 

How did you 'make' your wife call the OM? Did she object and you kept pushing for it?

This 'making' her do something is obviously an issue with your wife. It needs to be handled in counseling.


----------



## WyshIknew

GusPolinski said:


> Wow. You should demand that your wife come clean w/ her family about her true motives behind the RO. That should now be at the very top of your list of demands going forward.





loyallad said:


> :iagree:
> 
> They have to hear it from her.




A number of betrayed spouses made this a condition of reconciliation.

Standing in front of at least their parents and admitting that all their 'reasons' were total bull doo doos.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Just make sure its done in front of you... my H said he did this with his Mom, but a later conversation with his mother revealed he left out VERY pertinent details that skewed her opinion of how "quickly" I should have "gotten over it."


----------



## the guy

Ya your old lady ha to set the record straight with her folks...that's for damn sure!


----------



## bandit.45

Don't let her back in that house until she proves that she is really in it for the long haul, and when she starts showing remorse, and after the divorce is finalized.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I understand the logic about divorce first and then let her win you back, but my gut says it backfires... I think there is a way to do the same without divorcing but instead with a hardcore separation.

You guys may have stories that evidence the opposite, but my gut checks up when I hear divorce first then let her win back.


----------



## Suspecting2014

dadof2 said:


> Her mom actually called me yesterday. She said that STBX was very encouraged by our marriage counseling. She also said that me making her call OM in front of me made her very scared and nervous. MIL said that I need to be careful because STBX was scared around me before and that's why she left.
> 
> They obviously have bought the "abuse" claim hook line and sinker. I have thought about taking them to eat if everything begins to work out, but its too early for that now. And her mom is very immature, so the minute I would ask them for a meeting she would be on the horn with STBX telling her all about it. I learned very early on in this process that MIL is planted firmly in her corner and I can't get anywhere with her. This is between STBX and me. Her mom just likes to stir up the drama and keeps telling me everything I have done wrong without saying a word about dear old daughter's behavior.
> 
> I am taking things slow, we aren't talking everyday. STBX sent me a text yesterday saying that she knows it will be a tough road but she's willing to put the work in. I told her I appreciated that. Now its just a matter of waiting and watching, but I am going on with my life. I have dropped about 15 lbs since this started, and bought a lot of new clothes. STBX mentioned when we were leaving therapy that she liked my new jeans, lol. I am signed up to run my first 5K in two weeks so I have been spending a lot of my afternoons without the kids training for that. Just trying to keep my head clear- I feel like a month ago I was in a better spot that I am now. I had moved her sh!t out, told her I wasn't fighting the D anymore, and moving on. Now she wants back in and its got my head spinning on what to do.


Scared and nervous? WTF, she has been acting cold and brave the whole A!

In fact, you should be distant and very careful until D. I believe she has every step calculated (eg performing scared and nervous in front MIL, bd invitation with all her family, MC, new school) to get you back. In fact take a look from a bigger pic and she had 3 months separation as she wanted...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Could you elaborate on her fear of you? Is this something you have been aware of before? Is she mentally unbalanced? A she a meek person that you didn't know you were scaring? Is she lying to her mother?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

and divorce first would seem confusing for the kids...


In my situation, we separated for poor behavioral choices.

Son was told, Dad isn't home because he was choosing poor behavior and is learning to choose better right now. He will be back when he finishes that process and can choose better on a more consistent basis. At the time he had to learn to be safe around me and our son. Son grasped it VERY well. 

Taught him that adults are held accountable without being quite so traumatic as a divorce, imo.

He was THRILLED when his Dad stayed home finally. And proud of his Dad.. which encouraged his Dad to stay on the path...


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Chaparral said:


> Could you elaborate on her fear of you? Is this something you have been aware of before? Is she mentally unbalanced? A she a meek person that you didn't know you were scaring? Is she lying to her mother?


Very important questions...


----------



## Ripper

Cheating, lying about it (babysitting anyone?), bringing the kids around this POSOM, trying to replace you with him, smearing you with abuse allegations, the RO. Sound like a helpless and meek individual? Or more like an accomplished deceiver and manipulator?

At this point, why would you believe *anything* about her.


----------



## GusPolinski

Chaparral said:


> Could you elaborate on her fear of you? Is this something you have been aware of before? Is she mentally unbalanced? A she a meek person that you didn't know you were scaring? Is she lying to her mother?


EleGirl's last post had me asking some of these same questions.


----------



## tom67

Ripper said:


> Cheating, lying about it (babysitting anyone?), bringing the kids around this POSOM, trying to replace you with him, smearing you with abuse allegations, the RO. Sound like a helpless and meek individual? Or more like an accomplished deceiver and manipulator?
> 
> At this point, why would you believe *anything* about her.


Could be the drugs or that her parents enabled her all the time.
Do2 if you asked her to clear your name with her parents AND she willingly did it, MAYBE that would be a good start.
Maybe.


----------



## Nucking Futs

tom67 said:


> Could be the drugs or that her parents enabled her all the time.
> Do2 if you asked her to clear your name with her parents AND she willingly did it, MAYBE that would be a good start.
> Maybe.


No, that would be a start. A good start would be her clearing his name with _everyone_ that she denigrated him to. _EVERYONE_. Including the judge that she got the RO from. You know, the judge that she directly lied to, probably under oath. The judge that wouldn't remove the RO until the hearing and wouldn't expedite the hearing. The judge that may give her jail time for contempt of court for what she did. 

If I were the one she slandered I wouldn't give her the time of day until she cleared my name.


----------



## happyman64

Dof2

Now I will explain why you should meet your inlaws without your wife.

They protect your wife.
They bailout your wife when she gets in trouble.

You need to stop these practices. Otherwise any Reconciliation will be more difficult, prolonged and jeapordised by their interference.

When I suggested you "ask for their support" while you and their daughter figure out where your marriage is going you want your inlaws to say "Yes we support your efforts".

Then you layout what you need from them.

No protection for your spouse.
No bailout for your wife.
No covering for your wife.

Then you explain to your inlaws that no abuse has occurred to their daughter.

Not mental abuse.
Not physical abuse.
No abuse to your children.

Then explain why their daughter got the RO. So she could have unimpeded access to her OM. Without any intervention from you.

Make sure they get it. They might not want to believe it but they know the truth.

Then close the conversation with "so do I have your full support"?


I know you think this current phase with your W is just between you and her but I am going to tell that is only partially true.

And you want this conversation to get back to your wife. She might even get mad. 

Just remind her she has no reason to be mad or a leg to stand on.

Then remind her that while she says she is 100% committed so are you. As long as everyone understands the ground rules and is clear that you will no longer tolerate anyone's nonsense.

Make her see you. Do2 Version 2.0.

HM


----------



## Suspecting2014

happyman64 said:


> Dof2
> 
> Now I will explain why you should meet your inlaws without your wife.
> 
> They protect your wife.
> They bailout your wife when she gets in trouble.
> 
> You need to stop these practices. Otherwise any Reconciliation will be more difficult, prolonged and jeapordised by their interference.
> 
> When I suggested you "ask for their support" while you and their daughter figure out where your marriage is going you want your inlaws to say "Yes we support your efforts".
> 
> Then you layout what you need from them.
> 
> No protection for your spouse.
> No bailout for your wife.
> No covering for your wife.
> 
> Then you explain to your inlaws that no abuse has occurred to their daughter.
> 
> Not mental abuse.
> Not physical abuse.
> No abuse to your children.
> 
> Then explain why their daughter got the RO. So she could have unimpeded access to her OM. Without any intervention from you.
> 
> Make sure they get it. They might not want to believe it but they know the truth.
> 
> Then close the conversation with "so do I have your full support"?
> 
> 
> I know you think this current phase with your W is just between you and her but I am going to tell that is only partially true.
> 
> And you want this conversation to get back to your wife. She might even get mad.
> 
> Just remind her she has no reason to be mad or a leg to stand on.
> 
> Then remind her that while she says she is 100% committed so are you. As long as everyone understands the ground rules and is clear that you will no longer tolerate anyone's nonsense.
> 
> Make her see you. Do2 Version 2.0.
> 
> HM


IMO she should come clean to her family and ask for supporting Do2.
Is her call.
MIL told Do2 to make it easy for her because she believes that a RO was needed. 
She broke it, she fix it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

Blossom Leigh said:


> and divorce first would seem confusing for the kids...
> 
> 
> In my situation, we separated for poor behavioral choices.
> 
> Son was told, Dad isn't home because he was choosing poor behavior and is learning to choose better right now. He will be back when he finishes that process and can choose better on a more consistent basis. At the time he had to learn to be safe around me and our son. Son grasped it VERY well.
> 
> Taught him that adults are held accountable without being quite so traumatic as a divorce, imo.
> 
> He was THRILLED when his Dad stayed home finally. And proud of his Dad.. which encouraged his Dad to stay on the path...


Infidelity is different than other "bad" behaviors (don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is any worse, just that it is an entirely different thing as it is betrayal, pain, hatred, and above all a cold calculated choice made by the betrayer knowing full well that they were destroying others in the process.). Sorry but this sounds like a hall pass to me when infidelity is involved as the cheater gets to live on their own and do as they want until they choose to change. The person with the issues that caused this "separation" gets to live their life the way they want without any interference until they decide to change and the only thing that they get as a consequence is maybe not being their every night with their child(ten). 

Not being there with the spouse is not really a consequence as they didn't want to be with the spouse in the first place is what caused the infidelity. You are now just enabling them to live the way they want, without the consequences of losing half of their stuff and being held to custody standards and everything else that comes along with divorced life. If they truly want to be ini a relationship after the divorce, then they will work for it, whereas during the separation they are still married and really lose nothing.


----------



## 3putt

GusPolinski said:


> Wow. You should demand that your wife come clean w/ her family about her true motives behind the RO. That should now be at the very top of your list of demands going forward.


Absolutely. I wouldn't do a damned thing until your WW fixes things with your MIL to the point to where _she_ comes to _you_ begging for forgiveness for believing her adulterous daughter's web of lies.

This really is a pisser.


----------



## tom67

3putt said:


> Absolutely. I wouldn't do a damned thing until your WW fixes things with your MIL to the point to where _she_ comes to _you_ begging for forgiveness for believing her adulterous daughter's web of lies.
> 
> This really is a pisser.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
It's time for her to own it for once in her life.
It's called consequences for her (bad) actions.


----------



## Squeakr

3putt said:


> Absolutely. I wouldn't do a damned thing until your WW fixes things with your MIL to the point to where _she_ comes to _you_ begging for forgiveness for believing her adulterous daughter's web of lies.
> 
> This really is a pisser.


This really only comes into play when you appreciate and value the in-laws and friends valuation of you. I would have settled to just have told her Mom that I was better than what she portrayed ands said, but anything said would never change the the MIL's mind as she was just bast-ah!t crazy to begin with, si I really didn't care about her thoughts of me, but more that the WW lied about everything so much to the point that everyone felt sorry for her.


----------



## harrybrown

So when is she going to stop all contact with the OM?

And when is she going to give you the written timeline and diary of her A?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Squeakr said:


> Infidelity is different than other "bad" behaviors (don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is any worse, just that it is an entirely different thing as it is betrayal, pain, hatred, and above all a cold calculated choice made by the betrayer knowing full well that they were destroying others in the process.). Sorry but this sounds like a hall pass to me when infidelity is involved as the cheater gets to live on their own and do as they want until they choose to change. The person with the issues that caused this "separation" gets to live their life the way they want without any interference until they decide to change and the only thing that they get as a consequence is maybe not being their every night with their child(ten).
> 
> Not being there with the spouse is not really a consequence as they didn't want to be with the spouse in the first place is what caused the infidelity. You are now just enabling them to live the way they want, without the consequences of losing half of their stuff and being held to custody standards and everything else that comes along with divorced life. If they truly want to be ini a relationship after the divorce, then they will work for it, whereas during the separation they are still married and really lose nothing.


Ahhh... Tracking a little closer... But I do see where in some infidelities this would backfire. I've been on both sides of infidelity. My caution would be to judge on case by case and not wrote script for all. Thanks for the explanation. I can see where it may be viable strategy for some affairs. In my case on either side it would have backfired.


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2,

Is it fair to say that your wife is weak person?

As Tom points out, she is having trouble with prescription drugs and alcohol. To what degree to do you see her erratic behavior being connected to decisions made in the haze of drugs or alcohol?

If this is a problem, when did it begin?

Has she accused you of being controlling because you disliked her drinking and pill popping?

HappyMan suggested that your wife's family are enabling her. She is not strong and independent from them. You indicated she has FOO issues. How important is their approval to her? HappyMan's suggestion that you put them on the spot by asking them where they stand is a good one. For if your wife is using them to relay messages to you, i.e., she is hopeful following MC, then you can relay messages right back.

Would you consider being more explicit in your communications with your WW? How would you feel about giving her the following message?



> Dear WW,
> 
> Your decision to divorce me while carrying out an extra marital affair with your senior colleague caused me considerable distress and pain. Eventually I managed to regain control and prepare for life as a divorced single father. The turmoil eventually forced me to become a stronger person. I realized that I could go on in life. Our divorce would not stop me from being a good father.
> 
> Furthermore, I realized that once I healed I could be a good husband to another woman in the future. Although I am not there yet I will be strong enough to love again.
> 
> You tell me that you have changed your mind. You no longer want divorce. And as I have told you, I do not know what to make of your 180 degree shift.
> 
> Is it because you miss family life?
> 
> Perhaps you fear to be on your own?
> 
> Are you struggling with alcohol and medications and therefore require a life partner who will tolerate and enable dependence on these substances?
> 
> Are you afraid of public embarrassment because of you affair?
> 
> Do you want me to stop you from pursuing other men because you no longer have enough self esteem to control your decision making?
> 
> None of these reasons attract me to remain married to you or reconcile post divorce. What could possibly change my feelings is to see courageous action on your part:
> 
> I would like to have access to all of your electronic communications, namely email, cell call records, messages and social media. If you have destroyed it, that indicates you don't have the courage to be open. I don't see reconciliation as likely in such case.
> 
> I hope you have the courage to stay at your job. If someone has to leave in shame, it should be your boss. A boss should never sleep with subordinate, at least not a married one. If the school authorities criticized you and/or him, I want to know about it.
> 
> The RO has expired. The damage it caused to our relationship remains. Do you have the courage to write a letter, stating that the RO never had legitimate motivation. And if you write such a letter, to whom may I show it? Your parents? The divorce court?
> 
> If you fear me and find me controlling, why would you seek to reenter such an unhealthy relationship?
> 
> You went outside of our marriage to fullfil your sexual needs. You never told me that you were that dissatisfied with me a lover. You did not have the guts to tell me that before. Now I don't think either of us know what would happen if we were to try again. You didn't want me. There was somebody else. Why should I emotionally reinvest myself if I cannot meet your needs?
> 
> I do not believe that we can reconcile if you have to do everything. On my side I am willing examine our marriage prior to the affair. I am strong enough to take a hard look at myself. Reconciliation entails some good faith from both side. But since you left, you have to be tough enough to take the steps listed above. You have to put yourself along on "Maybe Us Island" before I make a leap to join you there.


Would such a letter be too explicit? Would it undermine the natural progression of genuine remorse?


----------



## tom67

Do2 could you please when you have a chance refresh us which prescriptions she is taking.
Did she have to go to another doctor to get the other script?
If so and the DEA catches on they will investigate because they know doctors don't give multiple opiates to one patient or they get in trouble.
But screw that I don't want the kids in the car with her.
Side note Blacksmith found out from his kids that their mom has no food in the house again.
Meth HIGHLY suspected with her he is trying to get her tested (in cwi also)
I hope this is addressed that's all.


----------



## dadof2

LW, that letter has a lot of points in it that I would like to bring up to STBX. I may work them into conversation if we go back to MC.

As far as her prescriptions, when we separated she was on Xanax and Adderall. She would take Xanax at bedtime with a drink and then Adderall first thing in the AM to wake up. It is a vicious cycle. I obviously haven't been around her at those times lately so I don't know if it is still going on. I spoke with both of her doctors right after DDay to make them aware of the other prescription she is on. The doc who prescribed the Adderall is a family friend and she said she would take care of it on her end. I don't know if that means she lowered the dose or rediagnosed STBX to change the meds.

Today is her birthday. I sent her a happy bday text on the way to work this morning, and she said "Thank you, have a good day!" I think that is all I am going to do at this point. I get the kids back this afternoon and have them for the long weekend.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

happyman64 said:


> Dof2
> 
> Now I will explain why you should meet your inlaws without your wife.
> 
> They protect your wife.
> They bailout your wife when she gets in trouble.
> 
> You need to stop these practices. Otherwise any Reconciliation will be more difficult, prolonged and jeapordised by their interference.
> 
> When I suggested you "ask for their support" while you and their daughter figure out where your marriage is going you want your inlaws to say "Yes we support your efforts".
> 
> Then you layout what you need from them.
> 
> No protection for your spouse.
> No bailout for your wife.
> No covering for your wife.
> 
> Then you explain to your inlaws that no abuse has occurred to their daughter.
> 
> Not mental abuse.
> Not physical abuse.
> No abuse to your children.
> 
> Then explain why their daughter got the RO. So she could have unimpeded access to her OM. Without any intervention from you.
> 
> Make sure they get it. They might not want to believe it but they know the truth.
> 
> Then close the conversation with "so do I have your full support"?
> 
> 
> I know you think this current phase with your W is just between you and her but I am going to tell that is only partially true.
> 
> And you want this conversation to get back to your wife. She might even get mad.
> 
> Just remind her she has no reason to be mad or a leg to stand on.
> 
> Then remind her that while she says she is 100% committed so are you. As long as everyone understands the ground rules and is clear that you will no longer tolerate anyone's nonsense.
> 
> Make her see you. Do2 Version 2.0.
> 
> HM


HM, this is all very good. I'm just not sure it's possible, or even healthy, 2 recover a marriage after this much nonsense. I don't think I could have.

-ol' 2long


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> LW, that letter has a lot of points in it that I would like to bring up to STBX. I may work them into conversation if we go back to MC.
> 
> As far as her prescriptions, when we separated she was on Xanax and Adderall. She would take Xanax at bedtime with a drink and then Adderall first thing in the AM to wake up. It is a vicious cycle. I obviously haven't been around her at those times lately so I don't know if it is still going on. I spoke with both of her doctors right after DDay to make them aware of the other prescription she is on. The doc who prescribed the Adderall is a family friend and she said she would take care of it on her end. I don't know if that means she lowered the dose or rediagnosed STBX to change the meds.
> 
> Today is her birthday. I sent her a happy bday text on the way to work this morning, and she said "Thank you, have a good day!" I think that is all I am going to do at this point. I get the kids back this afternoon and have them for the long weekend.


Cool:smthumbup:
Have a nice weekend.


----------



## Hicks

You don't know if you could ever get back together.
You really don't have the "data" to make that decision.
What you should do is make a list of requirements for reconciliation. For example you should ask her if you scare her, and if she says no, then you require that she tells her parents the entire truth and she asks them to confirm with a phone call to you about a truthful story of your separation and marital problems.
Whatever you want to ask form, you ask for.

With the "data" of whether any of this makes a difference, you can decide what you want to do.

I don't think it's too wrong to ask her to do things you require, and decide at the end of the day you still want a divorce.


----------



## happyman64

2long said:


> HM, this is all very good. I'm just not sure it's possible, or even healthy, 2 recover a marriage after this much nonsense. I don't think I could have.
> 
> -ol' 2long


Not everybody can 2 long. But some people have that capacity.

Capacity to love.
Capacity to forgive.
Capacity to know that if it ever happens again that they tried their hardest to not only keep their families together but their marriages as well.

Capacity to know when to walk away. Without ever looking back and doubting the decisions they made.

There is no shame in walking away. None at all. Staying in this marriage or a new one with the same person is a lot of hard work.

It takes years of work for both parties.

But the rewards can also be great.


----------



## happyman64

Suspecting2014 said:


> IMO she should come clean to her family and ask for supporting Do2.
> Is her call.
> MIL told Do2 to make it easy for her because she believes that a RO was needed.
> She broke it, she fix it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. She broke it so she needs to fix it.

But I will let you in on a little secret.

A wayward spouse can destroy a marriage.
A wayward spouse can hurt a family.
But a wayward spouse cannot fix a marriage or heal a family alone.

The mess is too big. The damage is too great.

Reconciliation takes two spouses that communicate with each other. They have agreed to make an effort to work on their marriage, to make it whole.

Any relationship takes two. It is that simple.

Now before R is agreed upon the wayward needs to take responsibility for the damage. The wayward needs to be remorseful. That person needs to step up to the plate.

But please note that a remorseful wayward is very often ashamed of their past behavior.

So in essence it takes two to make things right again. And it does not happen overnight.


----------



## LongWalk

As HappyMan notes there is so much to be ashamed of that it cannot be covered in a 15 minute PowerPoint presentation.

Dadof2's WW had to start out by being friendly instead nasty. She was afraid he'd shut her down. She's been taking small steps ever since.


----------



## happyman64

LongWalk said:


> As HappyMan notes there is so much to be ashamed of that it cannot be covered in a 15 minute PowerPoint presentation.
> 
> Dadof2's WW had to start out by being friendly instead nasty. She was afraid he'd shut her down. She's been taking small steps ever since.


Correct. And Dof2's wife has a lot to be ashamed about.

We can keep talking about the TT, babysitting OM's kids so they could be together and the RO,etc... but it truly serves no purpose at this time.

Dof2 has lived it. He has weathered the storm and it has not broken him. in fact, IMO it has made him tougher, smarter and more aware of his situation that he finds himself in today.

What he needs to do (and I know he is doing this) is really study his wife. He needs to determine as best he can if she is truly remorseful for her crappy actions.

He needs to determine if she is capable of being a good, honest person again. 

He needs to determine if she is capable of putting in a tremendous effort in over a long period of time.

And they need to determine if their goals are still the same for the short term as well as long term relationship.

And the real kicker. Does Dof2 still love his wife enough to be willing to try to reconcile with her. because his wife has used up a lot of that love lately. He needs to be honest with himself if he is willing to try not for her or his kids but for himself.

Communication is key. Between both of them.

HM


----------



## Nucking Futs

happyman64 said:


> Correct. And Dof2's wife has a lot to be ashamed about.
> 
> We can keep talking about the TT, babysitting OM's kids so they could be together and the RO,etc... but it truly serves no purpose at this time.
> 
> Dof2 has lived it. He has weathered the storm and it has not broken him. in fact, IMO it has made him tougher, smarter and more aware of his situation that he finds himself in today.
> 
> What he needs to do (and I know he is doing this) is really study his wife. He needs to determine as best he can if she is truly remorseful for her crappy actions.
> 
> He needs to determine if she is capable of being a good, honest person again.
> 
> He needs to determine if she is capable of putting in a tremendous effort in over a long period of time.
> 
> And they need to determine if their goals are still the same for the short term as well as long term relationship.
> 
> And the real kicker. Does Dof2 still love his wife enough to be willing to try to reconcile with her. because his wife has used up a lot of that love lately. He needs to be honest with himself if he is willing to try not for her or his kids but for himself.
> 
> Communication is key. Between both of them.
> 
> HM


Lots of requirements for Dof2 here, and I don't disagree with any of them. What about her? How would you handle the situation with the RO? To me that's a huge slap in the face, and as long as she allows that lie to stand to anyone she told it to I would not be able to take the first step toward R.

As far as discussing this serving no purpose at this time, I disagree. Dof2 and any other BS that reads this now or in the future will benefit from having all sides examined.


----------



## LongWalk

Nucking Futs,

The RO is an issue that his WW is not going to fight. She will admit it is wrong to her parents. More importantly she needs to understand why she did it. 

Right now she is humble. That may not be enough to save their marriage, though.

How and why the affair collapsed is a central factor. Even if she were dumped and Dadof2 was plan B, that does not have to be a fatal blow to R. If Dadof2 defines himself as a plan A guy and she recognizes it, he doesn't have to treat it as an ego crusher.

Maybe she has HPV or herpes now. He may not want to wear a condom.

She may not get her parents to treat him with enough respect. That may be intolerable.

He has time to figure things out. 

Are her eyes filled with love and sorrow? We don't see her and cannot judge.


----------



## warlock07

dadof2 said:


> Her mom actually called me yesterday. She said that STBX was very encouraged by our marriage counseling. She also said that me making her call OM in front of me made her very scared and nervous. MIL said that I need to be careful because STBX was scared around me before and that's why she left.
> 
> They obviously have bought the "abuse" claim hook line and sinker. I have thought about taking them to eat if everything begins to work out, but its too early for that now. And her mom is very immature, so the minute I would ask them for a meeting she would be on the horn with STBX telling her all about it. I learned very early on in this process that MIL is planted firmly in her corner and I can't get anywhere with her. This is between STBX and me. Her mom just likes to stir up the drama and keeps telling me everything I have done wrong without saying a word about dear old daughter's behavior.
> 
> I am taking things slow, we aren't talking everyday. STBX sent me a text yesterday saying that she knows it will be a tough road but she's willing to put the work in. I told her I appreciated that. Now its just a matter of waiting and watching, but I am going on with my life. I have dropped about 15 lbs since this started, and bought a lot of new clothes. STBX mentioned when we were leaving therapy that she liked my new jeans, lol. I am signed up to run my first 5K in two weeks so I have been spending a lot of my afternoons without the kids training for that. Just trying to keep my head clear- I feel like a month ago I was in a better spot that I am now. I had moved her sh!t out, told her I wasn't fighting the D anymore, and moving on. Now she wants back in and its got my head spinning on what to do.



:banghead::banghead:


Dadof2, I think you are too eager to reconcile for this to end well. It is probably even obvious to her.

This is just my opinion and I really hope that you end up in the best case scenario but I think this is headed to a disaster. 

She contacted you after the exposure and you were fully preparing yourself for MC and R. She never scheduled one.

She had lunch with you and you started dreaming of R. 

And you crashed emotionally after these two events. Read your own posts. 


She had one session with MC with you and you are putting yourself in a vulnerable position again. You are delighted that she likes your jeans. 

Her mother also has absolutely no shame. 



> MIL said that I need to be careful because STBX was scared around me before and that's why she left.


Take away the fantasy colored glasses and read this again.


----------



## davecarter

Anyone....get that gut-feeling this isn't going to end well for Do2...


----------



## helolover

The cardinal rule of romantic relationships: Genuine desire cannot be negotiated.

Silly WW got tingles by some other dude. She was unhaaaaaappy, walked, and went nuclear on Do2. This was varsity level throwing Do2 under the bus; Callous, cold and vicious.

Turns out grass was definitely not greener for her. It appears she even flaked on stupid OM too.

She's a train wreck. She's a hurricane of destruction.

Now there's talk of R. With R, there is a list of demands of full disclosure, repentance, and transparency. All of that will breed obligation and compliance - not her desire for do2. How can do2 truly desire his STBXW after the gutting of him she's provided? My guess is their genuine desire for each other is in the rubbish bin. Some relationships were never meant to be.

Understand that you're not committed to R, Do2. My hope is you closely determine what is best for you. I personally think you deserve better. She's broken. You carried her all of these years. She hasn't done anything to fix herself. She will do this again. R with her in the current state, even post-divorce, is rescuing her from her consequences. Again.

Best of luck.


----------



## Nucking Futs

LongWalk said:


> Nucking Futs,
> 
> *The RO is an issue that his WW is not going to fight. She will admit it is wrong to her parents. More importantly she needs to understand why she did it. *
> 
> Right now she is humble. That may not be enough to save their marriage, though.
> 
> How and why the affair collapsed is a central factor. Even if she were dumped and Dadof2 was plan B, that does not have to be a fatal blow to R. If Dadof2 defines himself as a plan A guy and she recognizes it, he doesn't have treat it as an ego crusher.
> 
> Maybe she has HPV or herpes now. He may not want to wear a condom.
> 
> She may not get her parents to treat him with enough respect. That may be intolerable.
> 
> He has time to figure things out.
> 
> Are her eyes filled with love and sorrow? We don't see her and cannot judge.


Her parents are not the only ones she slandered him to. She needs to do what she can to clean up the reputation she shredded, to everyone she told and anyone else that might have heard her lies.

Is there a police report of her claiming he threatened her? If so, there needs to be an addendum added to it that she confessed to making up the abuse as a divorce strategy and there was no abuse. The court records need to include a sworn statement to that affect. She needs to tell each person that she lied to about it, individually and face to face, that she lied and why.

I don't understand why you suggest taking her back while allowing this slander to stand.


----------



## just got it 55

Nucking Futs said:


> Her parents are not the only ones she slandered him to. She needs to do what she can to clean up the reputation she shredded, to everyone she told and anyone else that might have heard her lies.
> 
> Is there a police report of her claiming he threatened her? If so, there needs to be an addendum added to it that she confessed to making up the abuse as a divorce strategy and there was no abuse. The court records need to include a sworn statement to that affect. She needs to tell each person that she lied to about it, individually and face to face, that she lied and why.
> 
> I don't understand why you suggest taking her back while allowing this slander to stand.


I'll say this once more

This is priority #1 for POSWW to the record straight

Nothing moves forward until this is publicly done.

All a man has in this world in the end is his honor and reputation

and the claims of being an abuser tarnish that.

POSWW has displayed and committed despicable slanderous actions that are as egregious as the affair itself.

Getting past this is going to be as difficult as gaining peace in the Middle East

55


----------



## jim123

There is no R right now.

She has not stopped nor delayed the D. She is still living separate. She is still making OP the villain.

She is putting him on hold. Do you think she is staying home this weekend. If not with OM she will go out and be single. 

She is not the first WW to do MC and not be in true R.


----------



## tom67

jim123 said:


> There is no R right now.
> 
> She has not stopped nor delayed the D. She is still living separate. She is still making OP the villain.
> 
> She is putting him on hold. Do you think she is staying home this weekend. If not with OM she will go out and be single.
> 
> She is not the first WW to do MC and not be in true R.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
That's why to even begin she has to tell the truth to her parents straight up no negotiation.


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

I agree with those who say that you should divorce her, and then see if she still wants to reconcile.

Also, I strongly recommend counselling for your and the kids, it will help all of you tremendously!

Best wishes to you&the kids.


----------



## LongWalk

Nucking Futs said:


> Her parents are not the only ones she slandered him to. She needs to do what she can to clean up the reputation she shredded, to everyone she told and anyone else that might have heard her lies.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a police report of her claiming he threatened her? If so, there needs to be an addendum added to it that she confessed to making up the abuse as a divorce strategy and there was no abuse. The court records need to include a sworn statement to that affect. She needs to tell each person that she lied to about it, individually and face to face, that she lied and why.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why you suggest taking her back while allowing this slander to stand.


:iagree:



I think Do2 would agree with you. He has not said that he is going to take her back without restoring moral order. Given that she has already come out and requested reconciliation, getting her to swear on paper that she was wrong about the need for an RO is likely not difficult. It would not create cognitive dissonance.



It is important that she explore the reason that she took that step. If I recall OM had already gotten her to shed her panties. They were socializing in a bar after she had tried to throw Do2 off the trail. He showed up and confronted Mr Jane Fonda workout man.



In her infatuated mind, remember she was throwing her family away to get laid as much as possible by the vice principal, she sought to get rid of the pressure from Do2. She needs to go through what happened in her own mind to get things straight. No good will come if she still thinks that she had some justification.



"I thought you (Do2 and POSOM) were going to hurt each other," may be her justification even now. Hearing something like that may make Dof2 laugh or see red. We don't know.



This is why I suggested Cheaterville so many times. It is the equivalent of Do2 kicking OM's butt. Let WW see that OM is the one who cannot stand confrontation.



At the hunter gatherer level, if Dof2 and POSOM were to collide in a store in the local shopping mall. Dof2 should be shoulders- back-chest-out-cold-rage p1ssed off. POSOM should want to make himself scarce. After all the fight to mate is over. 



As to whether or not Dof2 should entertain the idea of R is an both an emotional and rational decision. He can still love and desire his WW. She does seem to know him well enough to feel encouraged. He refused to celebrate her birthday but did send her a message. Was that a right or wrong move? 



What would make a lot of TAMers groan would be if he went missing for two days and then posted to say that they slept together and the kids saw them together and were super happy. Before anything like that happens he ought to read her old emails and messages to learn why the affair came unwound.



But even if a BS messes up and jumps into hysterical bonding prematurely, that does not mean they cannot carry out the divorce. Sometimes things get messy.



One thing that distinguishes collapsing relationships is the statement that sometimes occurs: "I don't know who this person (STBX) is... did I ever know." This indicates that they never saw the person clearly to start with. Mishy, the guy who married the Canadian waitress who is cheating on him, figures he fell in love with an actress.



TheGoodGuy's ex is now homeless, jobless and suicidal. His therapist helped him to realize that he had been holding her together while they were together. Cheating brought out the real her, a unstable character.



Is it possible that a basically good person can become a fornicating b1tch overnight and then slap out of it and become herself again?


----------



## BjornFree

In all honesty, dadof2, you shouldn't R with her. I've been following this thread intermittently. But she comes accross as a cold and calculative woman, there's little I've seen that suggests the contrary. Her attempt at R is likely motivated by something more than you and your kids. Her family, particularly her mom seems a right b!tch. That's never a good sign.

I'm not against R'ing after an affair, lots of people have done it but remember she took out an RO against you on a baseless charge. You need to consider the potential consequences of these charges, not just on your person but your custody(hypothetically ofc). 

I'm gonna be a little crude here, she fvcked the OM and she would have legally fvcked you over too. Your kids will soon grow up and have their own lives to take care of. If you do plan on spending that life with someone, the least you could do is make sure you're with someone who's at least faithful in her heart. Consider all of these before diving in.


----------



## jim123

I have no idea why people keep talking R like you have control. She is stringing you along. I do not know why but this is not R.

Start working on you and moving on. What do you think she is doing this weekend? She is not at home that is for sure.


----------



## dadof2

I appreciate all the responses. I don't believe we are in R just yet. We went to one MC session and have had a few family meals together. Sure part of me sees the potential for R and hopes that it could work out. But I am also leary of her actions and am trying not to get false hope.

I am taking it very cautiously and slowly, call it pre-R I guess. I am very guarded now and won't drop the walls at her first sign of remorse. It is going to take a lot from her to show she is worth being with. And it still may not be enough. We are continuing with the D process, we have settled custody and child support, the only thing remaining is a community property settlement. We have 8 more months to live separate before the final D can be filed.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Problem with saying.. go find someone faithful... Is I bet he already thought he had that. How does he guaratee that next time... He cant, with her OR someone new. Sure there are certain things to look for, but healthy realism is good. Anyone can cheat given the right circumstances. I would rather have someone self aware and actively engaging boundaries because they have been through the fire on some level and have learned from it than not. Its kind of akin to telling him to go find a dog that doesnt bite. There are dogs that resist it more than others, but ALL dogs carry the capacity to bite in the right circumstances. At best he can choose to stack the odds in his favor and be ok with that.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



happyman64 said:


> I agree. She broke it so she needs to fix it.
> 
> But I will let you in on a little secret.
> 
> A wayward spouse can destroy a marriage.
> A wayward spouse can hurt a family.
> But a wayward spouse cannot fix a marriage or heal a family alone.
> 
> The mess is too big. The damage is too great.
> 
> Reconciliation takes two spouses that communicate with each other. They have agreed to make an effort to work on their marriage, to make it whole.
> 
> Any relationship takes two. It is that simple.
> 
> Now before R is agreed upon the wayward needs to take responsibility for the damage. The wayward needs to be remorseful. That person needs to step up to the plate.
> 
> But please note that a remorseful wayward is very often ashamed of their past behavior.
> 
> So in essence it takes two to make things right again. And it does not happen overnight.


QFT HM. Many on CWI will never understand this. It is one of the reasons many are still struggling on this board. 

Well said. Impossible to like this enough.


----------



## aug

dadof2 said:


> I appreciate all the responses. I don't believe we are in R just yet. We went to one MC session and have had a few family meals together. Sure part of me sees the potential for R and hopes that it could work out. But I am also leary of her actions and am trying not to get false hope.
> 
> I am taking it very cautiously and slowly, call it pre-R I guess. I am very guarded now and won't drop the walls at her first sign of remorse. It is going to take a lot from her to show she is worth being with. And it still may not be enough. We are continuing with the D process, we have settled custody and child support, the only thing remaining is a community property settlement. We have 8 more months to live separate before the final D can be filed.


8 more months... beware of the boiling frog syndrome you're placing yourself in!


----------



## dadof2

aug said:


> 8 more months... beware of the boiling frog syndrome you're placing yourself in!


Good advice. I have my guard up big time. PI put gps on her car yesterday. I did that to verify that she has in fact cut ties with OM. I don't trust her enough to take her word for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bigfoot

beware stalking charges. putting gps on someone's car without consent has been found unlawful, even if its your spouse. Your'e gonna have to get a lawyer's advice on that. 

Better you get a poly on her true intentions. Danger Will Robinson.


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> I appreciate all the responses. I don't believe we are in R just yet. We went to one MC session and have had a few family meals together. Sure part of me sees the potential for R and hopes that it could work out. But I am also leary of her actions and am trying not to get false hope.
> 
> I am taking it very cautiously and slowly, call it pre-R I guess. I am very guarded now and won't drop the walls at her first sign of remorse. It is going to take a lot from her to show she is worth being with. And it still may not be enough. We are continuing with the D process, we have settled custody and child support, the only thing remaining is a community property settlement. We have 8 more months to live separate before the final D can be filed.


From what I've read, sounds more like she's just saving face and making herself look good.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Good advice. I have my guard up big time. PI put gps on her car yesterday. I did that to verify that she has in fact cut ties with OM. I don't trust her enough to take her word for it.





bigfoot said:


> beware stalking charges. putting gps on someone's car without consent has been found unlawful, even if its your spouse. Your'e gonna have to get a lawyer's advice on that.
> 
> Better you get a poly on her true intentions. Danger Will Robinson.


Just curious... what kind of car does she drive?


----------



## warlock07

How do you plan to deal with the part she had sex with the other guy? Do you think you have the capability of moving on from that part of her affair in case you R with her ? or have not thought about that.

Or do you think mind movies will be a small price to pay to keeping your family together ? Honest question. I am not asking with an agenda.


----------



## warlock07

dadof2 said:


> Good advice. I have my guard up big time. PI put gps on her car yesterday. I did that to verify that she has in fact cut ties with OM. I don't trust her enough to take her word for it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What is the difference between now and the last time ? OM wasn't a one time event. You repeatedly fought about him if I remember.


----------



## davecarter

Sorry, Do2, I don't often say it, but in this case you need to...


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> Good advice. I have my guard up big time. PI put gps on her car yesterday. I did that to verify that she has in fact cut ties with OM. I don't trust her enough to take her word for it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What would you need from her that would make up for the humiliation you endured from the RO? Please don't say nothing.


----------



## LongWalk

I think Dadof2 is going to make the right decisions. He has the right temperament. Whwther he should attempt R or not is still an open question.

Re: GPS
Fine. But if you want to flush out OM, it would be good to have contact with someone from the school who doesn't like him. Do you know anyone on the staff? Have any colleagues contacted you at all during this. Who were the other women in the work out group? Can you see if they are friends with your WW and POSOM? Who told you about the distance between their cars in the parking lot? When they have staff meetings does she gaze at him? If she is in love with him, she may display it involuntarily.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



LongWalk said:


> I think Dadof2 is going to make the right decisions. He has the right temperament. Whwther he should attempt R or not is still an open question.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. This stuff does not come naturally. It's a process that has to be worked through. I don't blame him for wanting to explore every avenue. Regrets are a horrible thing.


----------



## warlock07

I think a lot of groundwork has to be done for even this to considered pre-R. We do not even know the extent of her commitment to R. Yes, she did apologize but we do not know why she did that. Could this this a rebound from her affair ? dado2 is her safe spot. 

I think the positive pro-R advice might only end up giving dadof2 false hopes. We don't even know what her expectations of R are. We don't know her reasons at all.


----------



## LongWalk

That is why Dof2 needs her old email, text messaging, social media, etc. Reading it will hurt, but it will give him the reality of the betrayal. She must accept that radical honesty is the best thing for R. Look at RoadScholar, he got back his wife. He witnessed her weep. He got sex but was not 100% certain that it was wild monkey affair sex. In short, he got back a lot but not total openness. And that missing part of the puzzle bothered him.

If one were scientific about this, one could study post affair marriages statistically. x% end in in immediate divorce. y% attempt reconciliation. Of those that attempt R, x% begin with hysterical bonding while y% involve separation of more than two weeks. And so forth, so that one could put statistical values on the wisdom of doing step A before step B; B before C, and so on.

But a successful life doesn't come just from a formula. Spontaneity counts for something.

As long as Dof2 is going to MC with WW, there is a forum for communication. In general, she should be the eager one to come forward. He wished her happy birthday. That was enough encouragement for awhile.


----------



## Nucking Futs

LongWalk said:


> That is why Dof2 needs her old email, text messaging, social media, etc. Reading it will hurt, but it will give him the reality of the betrayal. She must accept that radical honesty is the best thing for R. Look at RoadScholar, he got back his wife. He witnessed her weep. He got sex but was not 100% certain that it was wild monkey affair sex. In short, he got back a lot but not total openness. And that missing part of the puzzle bothered him.
> 
> If one were scientific about this, one could study post affair marriages statistically. x% end in in immediate divorce. y% attempt reconciliation. Of those that attempt R, x% begin with hysterical bonding while y% involve separation of more than two weeks. And so forth, so that one could put statistical values on the wisdom of doing step A before step B; B before C, and so on.
> 
> But a successful life doesn't come just from a formula. Spontaneity counts for something.
> 
> As long as Dof2 is going to MC with WW, there is a forum for communication. In general, she should be the eager one to come forward. He wished her happy birthday. That was enough encouragement for awhile.


Interesting you should bring up RoadScholar. I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks he's in his second false R. That's where I see this one going too unless WW gets way more active about R. Frankly I don't believe she really wants R so much as she just doesn't have anything better going on.


----------



## LongWalk

I think RoadScholar's wife wants to remain married to him but she is not the sort of person to surrender completely. That's her personality. She sees divorce as a failure. But then look Harken Banks or Racer. Neither of their wives is making the level of effort that RS's is. Hope RS is doing better.


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2 wrote this before vacation with his kids:



> I am starting to realize that she is truly a broken person, and that this OM will only last so long before she starts projecting her issues onto him. The sad thing is that she and I have children together so I am tied to her forever. I am still hurt by the rejection and losing valuable time with my kids, but I am trying to convince myself that I am better off without her.


Followed by:



dadof2 said:


> I haven't posted in a while, I was on vacation last week and then have been catching up at work this week.
> 
> Vacation with kids was great...
> 
> STBX was in contact more often during our vacation than she ever has been since this all started. Texting, calling, even Facetime with kids. My mom was with me so I let her handle the Facetime while I went to the fitness center. I didn't want to see her and have those triggers ruin my vacation. She knew the kids were ok, I think she was just finding reasons to get in touch.
> 
> When I picked up the children the morning of leaving to start the vacation, I did tell STBX how much I have been hurt by her actions the last few months and that I am no longer going to fight her on every little thing of the divorce and I am ready to move on with my life. She didn't say anything, just sorta shook her head and looked at the ground. I also told her that all of her remaining belongings were in the garage and she could get them while I was away.
> 
> We got back in town on Friday and I was supposed to meet STBX for the child swap that Sunday. We have been swapping at a gas station in town, and she told me that she went to a meeting while we were gone at our child's school. Our oldest is starting school this year and she had some paperwork that we both needed to sign. I suggested that we meet at a local restaurant for breakfast, and *she seemed very eager to do that*. We met Sunday morning, and she was dressed to the nines. She looked great, I will admit it. We talked about school, vacation, etc. no relationship talk. I stayed cool and distant, while *she was acting like her old self, telling jokes, laughing, etc. She asked at the end if I would like to do this again and I said "I don't know, we'll see how it goes." We parted ways and she left with the kids. 30 mins later she texted me saying thanks for breakfast, really enjoyed it. I simply put back "You're welcome"*
> 
> We haven't had much contact this week at all, but we will both be attending our son's open house tonight at his school. It will be another triggering event, but I am going to do my best to be cordial but emotionless. It seems to be the best way for me to handle it. * If I get too emotional she picks up on it very quickly.
> *


Her emails and call log from this time would be interesting.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> I think Dadof2 is going to make the right decisions. He has the right temperament. Whwther he should attempt R or not is still an open question.
> 
> Re: GPS
> Fine. But if you want to flush out OM, it would be good to have contact with someone from the school who doesn't like him. Do you know anyone on the staff? Have any colleagues contacted you at all during this. Who were the other women in the work out group? Can you see if they are friends with your WW and POSOM? Who told you about the distance between their cars in the parking lot? When they have staff meetings does she gaze at him? If she is in love with him, she may display it involuntarily.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LW has a good idea here.
Someone that f^cked with my family needs to well suffer.
Put the pos on cheaterville and send the link to anyone relevant.
Stick with the truth and do not specifically name your wife.
It will make you feel better like getting one of those aisan massages.


----------



## ricky15100

No offence but it seems to me she knew all along all she would have to do is click her fingers and you'd come running back.

She's shown zero remorse, and done zero heavy lifting. In fact she hasn't even put her parents straight, in their eyes your still an abusive monster.

Could you really trust this woman again?

I don't see a happy ending here.


----------



## happyman64

Give D0f2 and his WW time.

They have an 8 month window to make a serious decision regarding the future of their marriage.

We are not there.

Remorse takes time to show. Especially from a WS that has acted like she has.

And heavy lifting truly takes place when a R has been agreed upon by both spouses.

They are not there yet.

They are like two knife fighters still circling. Trying to guess what the next move their opponent will take.

8 months.

Dof2 has his head on straight. Him and his family are in my prayers.

HM


----------



## GusPolinski

tom67 said:


> LW has a good idea here.
> Someone that f^cked with my family needs to well suffer.
> Put the pos on cheaterville and send the link to anyone relevant.
> Stick with the truth and do not specifically name your wife.
> *It will make you feel better like getting one of those aisan massages.*





ricky15100 said:


> No offence but it seems to me she knew all along all she would have to do is click her fingers and you'd come running back.
> 
> She's shown zero remorse, and done zero heavy lifting. In fact she hasn't even put her parents straight, in their eyes your still an abusive monster.
> 
> Could you really trust this woman again?
> 
> *I don't see a happy ending here.*


:lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl:


----------



## Augusto

You need to have her prove her loyalty. If she is taking responsibility, you need to bring her in front of her parents and yourself in the same room so she could admit to them that the abuse issue was a fabrication and the RO was meant to protect the affair. If she is truly remorseful, then she needs to be willing to tell her family she painted a false image about you and she was completely at guilt. If she refuses this because of shame or embarrassment, go for the D and do not stop as she has proven she cares more for herself than her marriage and family and is not willing to do what it takes to repair the damage she has caused.


----------



## Binji

The problem isn't your wife, It's all on you now. You married a woman that after 5 years got down on her knees and back to pleasure another man while married leaving the kids at home hungry, crying where's mommy. Then she put out a False restraining order just so she can get her rocks off. She didnt even want the other man, all she wanted was sex. She threw away a marriage for a few nuts. That says a lot what she thinks about you. Youre sitting up in the house with tissues and a laptop wondering about her every move, while she's wondering about the next piece of Bratwurst she can taste. You should have known from Jump street what this woman was about. This isnt her first Rodeo. For her to pull these Bobby Fischer chess moves tells you all you need to know about this woman.

Take a hot buttered skillet and slap yourself in the face with it, for even thinking about taking this "woman" back. The pain from the hot skillet will be worse than what she will do to you again. You were nothing more than a marriage title to her. The fact that you have been emotionally stricken by this woman saddens me. Please kick this woman to the curb. She doesnt deserve you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## davecarter

Binji said:


> The problem isn't your wife, It's all on you now. You married a woman that after 5 years got down on her knees and back to pleasure another man while married leaving the kids at home hungry, crying where's mommy. Then she put out a False restraining order just so she can get her rocks off. She didnt even want the other man, all she wanted was sex. She threw away a marriage for a few nuts. That says a lot what she thinks about you. Youre sitting up in the house with tissues and a laptop wondering about her every move, while she's wondering about the next piece of Bratwurst she can taste. You should have known from Jump street what this woman was about. This isnt her first Rodeo. For her to pull these Bobby Fischer chess moves tells you all you need to know about this woman.
> 
> Take a hot buttered skillet and slap yourself in the face with it, for even thinking about taking this "woman" back. The pain from the hot skillet will be worse than what she will do to you again. You were nothing more than a marriage title to her. The fact that you have been emotionally stricken by this woman saddens me. Please kick this woman to the curb. She doesnt deserve you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Brutal.


But pretty effective, no bones about it...


----------



## happyman64

Brutal? Yes.

Effective? Not in my opinion.

Why? Because we have seen WS's do much worse. Do much more damage to their spouses, marriages, families and themselves.

Yes Dof2's wife did some hurtful actions! very deliberate hurtful actions.

But there is much worse out there.

Stick around Binji. Stick around and keep reading.


----------



## davecarter

happyman64 said:


> Brutal? Yes.
> 
> Effective? Not in my opinion.
> 
> Why? Because we have seen WS's do much worse. Do much more damage to their spouses, marriages, families and themselves.
> Yes Dof2's wife did some hurtful actions! very deliberate hurtful actions.
> 
> But there is much worse out there.
> Stick around Binji. Stick around and keep reading.


Agreed...but can't think of too many that have been as calculating and measured... :scratchhead:


----------



## SF-FAN

happyman64 said:


> Brutal? Yes.
> 
> Effective? Not in my opinion.
> 
> Why? Because we have seen WS's do much worse. Do much more damage to their spouses, marriages, families and themselves.
> 
> Yes Dof2's wife did some hurtful actions! very deliberate hurtful actions.
> 
> But there is much worse out there.
> 
> Stick around Binji. Stick around and keep reading.


I agree with you happyman64. Not every WS is the same, granted most are, but not every. She may be lying to dadof2 and still be talking to OM BUT then again what if she isn't. What if she really realized the big mistake she made and learned her lesson? No one can read her mind or predict her next move no matter what her previous actions were. As long as dadof2 stays the course and proceeds with caution, he will see her true colors and make the best decision for him and his kids.


----------



## happyman64

Exactly SF. I do think from what Dof2 has told us that she has begun to realize the damage she has wrought from her bad decisions.


But IMO a WS very rarely learns their lesson so early post Affair.

The lessons get learned much later in the process whether they R or D.

They begin to see what they have done to the BS and the kids.

The relationships are damaged. And to repair them it takes a lot of work.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

happyman64 said:


> The relationships are damaged. And to repair them it takes a lot of work.


Yes, they do....


----------



## jr92gp

do2, how are you doing?

I don't see this mentioned much anymore on TAM, so I will suggest some reading that you may find applicable. It can be had for free with a quick Google search: Awareness by Anthony DeMello


----------



## murphy5

davecarter said:


> Agreed...but can't think of too many that have been as calculating and measured... :scratchhead:


what about the husband that drove an hour to the doctor's office to get his cancer treatment, and when he got there they told him the wife/OM called to say his health insurance was canceled? the health insurance was still in effect, but the office could not verify that to treat him and he drove home untreated. 

Imagine that long drive home, knowing your wife/OM are conspiring to have you die. Probably laughing about it as they ****. THAT is cold.


----------



## Thinkitthrough

I would think that those two would need a psychiatric Hospital, because that is one of the most inhumane things I have heard.


----------



## tom67

murphy5 said:


> what about the husband that drove an hour to the doctor's office to get his cancer treatment, and when he got there they told him the wife/OM called to say his health insurance was canceled? the health insurance was still in effect, but the office could not verify that to treat him and he drove home untreated.
> 
> Imagine that long drive home, knowing your wife/OM are conspiring to have you die. Probably laughing about it as they ****. THAT is cold.


It was this guy...
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/132074-voice-recorders-carefull-what-you-wish.html


----------



## WyshIknew

davecarter said:


> Agreed...but can't think of too many that have been as calculating and measured... :scratchhead:


What about the woman who would get humped by her OM then go home and get her hubby to perform oral on her?


----------



## davecarter

WyshIknew said:


> What about the woman who would get humped by her OM then go home and get her hubby to perform oral on her?


That's just nasty.

Actually, I have thought of another: the WW who gave her husband sleeping pills. Once he was away with the fairies, she would go into the basement, let the OM in and they'd have sex.


----------



## GusPolinski

davecarter said:


> That's just nasty.
> 
> Actually, I have thought of another: the WW who gave her husband sleeping pills. Once he was away with the fairies, she would go into the basement, let the OM in and they'd have sex.


Damn. Ballsy.

Wysh's example is worse, though. I seem to recall having read that in Thorburn's thread at one point, though I believe that he was speculating that it might have happened.


----------



## bandit.45

davecarter said:


> That's just nasty.
> 
> Actually, I have thought of another: the WW who gave her husband sleeping pills. Once he was away with the fairies, she would go into the basement, let the OM in and they'd have sex.


Or how about that one last year where the Utah wife was banging her father-in-law upstairs in one of the kids' bedrooms while her husband, a city cop, was downstairs watching TV with the kids?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Or how about that one last year where the Utah wife was banging her father-in-law upstairs in one of the kids' bedrooms while her husband, a city cop, was downstairs watching TV with the kids?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cop TJ Brewer suspended after pistol whipping his dad for sleeping with his wife | Mail Online


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> Or how about that one last year where the Utah wife was banging her father-in-law upstairs in one of the kids' bedrooms while her husband, a city cop, was downstairs watching TV with the kids?


I thought that happened at a family BBQ. Either way, he beat the sh*t out of his father. I don't blame him. I might not have stopped there.


----------



## bandit.45

GusPolinski said:


> I thought that happened at a family BBQ. Either way, he beat the sh*t out of his father. I don't blame him. I might not have stopped there.


It was some kind if family gathering. I think the son was watching sports or something. Anyway, that was pretty fvcking brazen of her and Pop to be doing the nasty with a house full of family. It must have boosted the naughty factor considerably. And I think I might barf now.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WyshIknew

davecarter said:


> That's just nasty.
> 
> Actually, I have thought of another: the WW who gave her husband sleeping pills. Once he was away with the fairies, she would go into the basement, let the OM in and they'd have sex.


LostCPA if I recall.


----------



## WyshIknew

GusPolinski said:


> Damn. Ballsy.
> 
> Wysh's example is worse, though. I seem to recall having read that in Thorburn's thread at one point, though I believe that he was speculating that it might have happened.


I must admit I thought troll at the time. He did post a year or so later to say he was attempting to reconcile.

Apparently his wife didn't realise the import of what she was doing.

*Cough* Horsesh1t *cough*


----------



## GusPolinski

WyshIknew said:


> I must admit I thought troll at the time. He did post a year or so later to say he was attempting to reconcile.
> 
> Apparently his wife didn't realise the import of what she was doing.
> 
> *Cough* Horsesh1t *cough*


This isn't a knock on anyone, and especially not St. Thorburn (for whom I have nothing but respect... I mean... seriously, when is that guy getting canonized?), but, as soon as I realized that was going on, divorce would be the only viable option for me. My pride and self-respect would *demand* it.


----------



## GusPolinski

Just read LostCPA's thread.

Damn.


----------



## LongWalk

Hysterical bonding?


----------



## 3putt

GusPolinski said:


> Just read LostCPA's thread.
> 
> Damn.


Hadn't seen this one before. Jesus....that was brutal.

Just damn.

Hope you're doing well LCPA, wherever you are. Lord knows you deserve it.


----------



## WyshIknew

3putt said:


> Hadn't seen this one before. Jesus....that was brutal.
> 
> Just damn.
> 
> Hope you're doing well LCPA, wherever you are. Lord knows you deserve it.


He has popped in from time to time but haven't seen him in a while.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

GusPolinski said:


> Damn. Ballsy.
> 
> Wysh's example is worse, though. *I seem to recall having read that in Thorburn's thread at one point, though I believe that he was speculating that it might have happened.*


I'd bet money on it. From what I recall, she had quite a few OM's that he knew about. There were probably just as many(if not more) that he never found out about.

She was doing it ALL and with out condoms...


----------



## dadof2

Wow guys, those are some interesting stories! I enjoy reading about other situations, I'm not sure if its because misery loves company or what!

I'm doing okay, trying to stay detached after STBX's latest attempts to find things for us to do together. I ran my first 5K this past weekend, it went great and was very rewarding. Our son's birthday is this weekend so it will be interesting to see how all of that goes down. Will try to update if anything new comes along, but right now we are kind of on cruise control.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Where is your wife staying now?


----------



## dadof2

manfromlamancha said:


> Where is your wife staying now?


She has an apartment about 10 mins from my house. She has been fishing for reasons to come by, always something regarding the kids. We have done a couple of MC sessions the last few weeks, but don't have anymore scheduled. What I am having trouble with is seeing her show remorse and do heavy lifting. I expect her to be moving mountains to show remorse, but that is not her style. I understand that if it was important to her that she would be doing anything and everything she could. But my therapist said that just because she is not doing it the way I would do it, doesn't mean she isn't taking steps.

That meant a lot to me, so I am trying to see things her way. She has apologized to me a few times and always brings some type of treat or gift when she comes to the house. She is very hot and cold. I am trying not to get my hopes up, staying detached but not mean to her.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Dadof2 I posted about some of these very thoughts on Droogs thread if you are interested. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/privat...advice-my-wife-cheating-144.html#post10295042 starting at post #2148

Also, www.affairrecovery.com is an excellent resource to help navigate these issues.

It was the one my H and I chose... it helps facilitate the remorse you are looking for.


----------



## bandit.45

Dadof2 I recommend you visit Surviving Infidelity. Go to the Wayward forum and read the threads there. It is an education. 

One common thing they talk about is how hard it us, right when they come off the affair, to feel remorse and compassion for their spouse. It takes many of them months to get their heads cleared to where they begin to feel the empathy and remorse that their BSs require, and often times by the time they do get to that point it is too late and their BSs have said " fvck it" and moved on. 

Be patient. Your WW is still in the fog. She's probably also embarrassed, feeling used by the OM and pretty stupid right now. Couple that with stubborn pride and it may take her a long time to give you the heartfelt apology you need.


----------



## manfromlamancha

You say she is blowing hot and cold at the moment. What's the cold like ? Justifying what she did ?


----------



## GusPolinski

Has the GPS given you any additional insight into her recent activities, dadof2?


----------



## LongWalk

Droog has been talking with his WW for hours but not about the affair. She is not keen on the subject.

Given your WW's attitude, I would expect her to skirt the subject and express regret/remorse tangentially. For example, she might talk about changing jobs or other subjects that relate to the collapse of your marriage.

What does she say about divorce now?

Does she openly talk about reconciliation?

Is she losing confidence in her ability to reconnect with you?

Has she said anything about dating, such as asking you if you are?

Nice to see you back.


----------



## Chaparral

Yes,.please explain how she's hot and cold.

Are there any signs that she has changed from what she was like before the affair?


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



dadof2 said:


> She has an apartment about 10 mins from my house. She has been fishing for reasons to come by, always something regarding the kids. We have done a couple of MC sessions the last few weeks, but don't have anymore scheduled. What I am having trouble with is seeing her show remorse and do heavy lifting. I expect her to be moving mountains to show remorse, but that is not her style. I understand that if it was important to her that she would be doing anything and everything she could. But my therapist said that just because she is not doing it the way I would do it, doesn't mean she isn't taking steps.
> 
> That meant a lot to me, so I am trying to see things her way. She has apologized to me a few times and always brings some type of treat or gift when she comes to the house. She is very hot and cold. I am trying not to get my hopes up, staying detached but not mean to her.


Take note of how she demonstrated her love for you before things started going south vs. how she is acting now. Was she always the type to "gift you" when she expressed her love? If so she might be latching on to familiar patterns while she is in this confused state of mind. She might not realize or be able to work out other ways to demonstrate remorse to you...yet. When you say she is cold could it be that she feels like she is trying but is getting little response or feedback so she is uneasy about what she is doing and if it is being received as she intends?


----------



## turnera

You are giving her WAY TOO MUCH access to you when she's done NEXT TO NOTHING to EARN you back. You're making a mistake and you're going to be back here in two more years telling us about her NEXT affair.


----------



## Graywolf2

GusPolinski said:


> You should demand that your wife come clean w/ her family about her true motives behind the RO. That should now be at the very top of your list of demands going forward.


Has she done this? If not why are you even in pre-R? 

Continue to be civil and cruse towards D and finalize it. Don’t make a declarative statement that you will never R until the D is final. If you want her as a girlfriend, that fine but get the divorce. She doesn’t deserve to be your wife.


----------



## LongWalk

Come on, Dof2 has not slept with her or let her move back home. She is still on the outside.

The question is how does Dof2 request access to her emails and texts to learn about he affair without appearing needy?

The claim that she broke it off when OMpos wanted more, is it true?


----------



## turnera

LongWalk said:


> The question is how does Dof2 request access to her emails and texts to learn about he affair without appearing needy?


What's needy about saying "I'm still considering whether I want to give us a second chance, but I know I can't consider it at all until you give me access to all emails, texts, and passwords. It's your choice, but if you won't give them to me, we have nothing more to discuss other than divorce."


----------



## Marduk

dadof2 said:


> She has an apartment about 10 mins from my house. She has been fishing for reasons to come by, always something regarding the kids. We have done a couple of MC sessions the last few weeks, but don't have anymore scheduled. What I am having trouble with is seeing her show remorse and do heavy lifting. I expect her to be moving mountains to show remorse, but that is not her style. I understand that if it was important to her that she would be doing anything and everything she could. But my therapist said that just because she is not doing it the way I would do it, doesn't mean she isn't taking steps.
> 
> That meant a lot to me, so I am trying to see things her way. She has apologized to me a few times and always brings some type of treat or gift when she comes to the house. She is very hot and cold. I am trying not to get my hopes up, staying detached but not mean to her.


Has she clearly and unambiguously apologized for what she has done, taken accountability, and committed to working on the marriage if you are? And, you know, asked if you want to work on things?

Because that's what spouses that want to reconcile do.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

tom67 said:


> Cop TJ Brewer suspended after pistol whipping his dad for sleeping with his wife | Mail Online


The "more" column includes an "unfortunate" headline that would benefit tremendously from the addition of a few commas: 

"Father shoots dead armed robbers using his teenage daughter as human shield during home invasion"

So, if the armed robbers were already dead, why did he have 2 shoot them, and why did he use his own daughter as a human shield? And who's house was he invading while all this went on?

-ol' 2long


----------



## happyman64

dadof2 said:


> She has an apartment about 10 mins from my house. She has been fishing for reasons to come by, always something regarding the kids. We have done a couple of MC sessions the last few weeks, but don't have anymore scheduled. What I am having trouble with is seeing her show remorse and do heavy lifting. I expect her to be moving mountains to show remorse, but that is not her style. I understand that if it was important to her that she would be doing anything and everything she could. But my therapist said that just because she is not doing it the way I would do it, doesn't mean she isn't taking steps.
> 
> That meant a lot to me, so I am trying to see things her way. She has apologized to me a few times and always brings some type of treat or gift when she comes to the house. She is very hot and cold. I am trying not to get my hopes up, staying detached but not mean to her.


Your therapist is very wise.

You even said yourself once or twice that your wife is the type of person to keep issues or expressions of emotion to herself.

I am married to the same type of woman. The amount of pride is overwhelming. Even when she wants to apologize or say that she did something wrong "I'm sorry" the ground shakes before she does.

Keep being you Dof2. You do not have to be mean to her. She is either going to force the issue and truly want to R with you or she is going to fail/give up.

Though I will say this.

Don't make it too easy. Dont start the conversation.

If she was the one that was able to walk away. She needs to be the one to walk back in the door.

You have to judge if she is worth it....

Have the kids noticed any change in her lately?
Have your inlaws communicated in any meaningful way to you?

HM


----------



## badmemory

dadof2 said:


> But my therapist said that just because she is not doing it the way I would do it, doesn't mean she isn't taking steps.


I do believe there is some validity to the notion that some WS's don't have the where with all to put on an extreme display of remorse or to do it immediately. Maybe it's their personality or maybe it's due to lingering resentment of marital issues.

Whatever may be the case, you know your wife. We don't. You should know what she's capable of emotionally. That said, there is a basic level of remorse that she *MUST* soon demonstrate; and you should know it when you see it. Trust your knowledge of her and don't accept less than you deserve.


----------



## Nucking Futs

dadof2 said:


> She has an apartment about 10 mins from my house. She has been fishing for reasons to come by, always something regarding the kids. We have done a couple of MC sessions the last few weeks, but don't have anymore scheduled. What I am having trouble with is seeing her show remorse and do heavy lifting. *I expect her to be moving mountains to show remorse, but that is not her style. I understand that if it was important to her that she would be doing anything and everything she could. But my therapist said that just because she is not doing it the way I would do it, doesn't mean she isn't taking steps.*
> 
> That meant a lot to me, so I am trying to see things her way. She has apologized to me a few times and always brings some type of treat or gift when she comes to the house. She is very hot and cold. I am trying not to get my hopes up, staying detached but not mean to her.


Wait a minute, lets back track a minute. It's not her style to move mountains to show remorse? Your therapist told you that her not doing it the way you expect doesn't mean she isn't taking steps, but you only expect her to show remorse and apologize, correct?

So when it comes to stabbing you in the back and mounting a ruthless surprise assault on you she does it without hesitation, but when it comes to making up for it "it's not her style"? And you want her back why?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Nucking Futs said:


> Wait a minute, lets back track a minute. It's not her style to move mountains to show remorse? Your therapist told you that her not doing it the way you expect doesn't mean she isn't taking steps, but you only expect her to show remorse and apologize, correct?
> 
> So when it comes to stabbing you in the back and mounting a ruthless surprise assault on you she does it without hesitation, but when it comes to making up for it "it's not her style"? And you want her back why?


Only problem with thinking these two efforts should match is the resentment that lead to the affair had been brewing for a while partially cloaked so that by the time it was acted upon it "looked" like it was moving mountains overnight. Now that the tide turns, now all that "brewing for reconciliation" is now out in the open instead of buried, so it looks and feels slower when in reality it isn't. I do agree you have to make sure bad behavior isn't being enabled or excused, but to expect the two to look the same is oversimplified to a degree.


----------



## bandit.45

Dad quit initiating conversations with her.

Show her, every day, through your actions, that you are moving on and forward with your life. She can either jump aboard your train or not.


----------



## highwing

Just read your whole story. I'm pulling for you either way. From what I read and how the seasoned vets here describe it, you are in "R". Just guard your heart my friend!


----------



## Nucking Futs

Blossom Leigh said:


> *Only problem with thinking these two efforts should match* is the resentment that lead to the affair had been brewing for a while partially cloaked so that by the time it was acted upon it "looked" like it was moving mountains overnight. Now that the tide turns, now all that "brewing for reconciliation" is now out in the open instead of buried, so it looks and feels slower when in reality it isn't. I do agree you have to make sure bad behavior isn't being enabled or excused, but to expect the two to look the same is oversimplified to a degree.


If she can't put in _at least_ as much effort to reconcile as she did to betray then she's not worth reconciling with.

These two efforts should not even approach matching.


----------



## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> If she can't put in _at least_ as much effort to reconcile as she did to betray then she's not worth reconciling with.
> 
> These two efforts should not even approach matching.


:iagree:
He should also start putting himself out there and at least try to start dating nothing serious then he will see whether she is serious or not or he won't really care one way or the other by then.


----------



## turnera

She needs to see him going out at least with his buddies and having a grand old life WITHOUT her. Show her what she's losing by not CARING ENOUGH to get outside her comfort zone. She doesn't like to put effort? Too bad. This is how you lose husbands.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Nucking Futs said:


> If she can't put in _at least_ as much effort to reconcile as she did to betray then she's not worth reconciling with.
> 
> These two efforts should not even approach matching.


Agreed, except, that kind of effort can take time to show up for various reasons, but one of them is straight out pain.

That's all I was saying... Its unrealistic to think it will be over night.. the other wasn't over night either though it "might" have that appearance at first glance.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

tom67 said:


> :iagree:
> He should also start putting himself out there and at least try to start dating nothing serious then he will see whether she is serious or not or he won't really care one way or the other by then.


Dangerous strategy.... out with buddies yes, like turnera says, but other girls... I think that might backfire depending on her perspective of the affair to begin with.


----------



## dadof2

Blossom Leigh said:


> Dangerous strategy.... out with buddies yes, like turnera says, but other girls... I think that might backfire depending on her perspective of the affair to begin with.


I have been going out a lot with old friends, and I believe it is getting back to STBX. I ran my first 5K this weekend and she found out from her sister. She was texting me saturday night asking all about it. I am playing it cool, not initiating contact, and trying to be brief but not mean in my responses.


----------



## tom67

Blossom Leigh said:


> Dangerous strategy.... out with buddies yes, like turnera says, but other girls... I think that might backfire depending on her perspective of the affair to begin with.


Well she filed not him I get what you are saying but he doesn't just have to sit around and wait for those 6 or 7 months.
She has to step it up in the next few months imo.


----------



## harrybrown

Do you know if she has stopped all contact with the OM?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

tom67 said:


> Well she filed not him I get what you are saying but he doesn't just have to sit around and wait for those 6 or 7 months.
> She has to step it up in the next few months imo.


Agreed


----------



## bandit.45

If she wanted to stop the D process she would have already. 

She's stringing him along.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Other than them talking a lot, is there a definitive given of divorce paper status yet?


----------



## LongWalk

harrybrown said:


> Do you know if she has stopped all contact with the OM?


There was an "affair is over" telephone call but OM(pos) and WW work at the same school.

Dof2 needs to read her emails, etc., but first she has to have the courage to ask for reconciliation. Dof2 should not be the one to raise the subject.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> There was an "affair is over" telephone call but OM(pos) and WW work at the same school.
> 
> Dof2 needs to read her emails, etc., but first she has to have the courage to ask for reconciliation. Dof2 should not be the one to raise the subject.


Exactly and Dof2 has to have a time frame in his head of how long he will wait for this.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

tom67 said:


> Exactly and Dof2 has to have a time frame in his head of how long he will wait for this.


I agree, time frames are a must. It is the ONLY thing that solidified reconciliation this year for me.


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2's wife must be in a bad place right now. She goes to school and all her colleagues and maybe even the pupils that Mrs Dof2, a (subject) teacher was screwing the assistant principal Mr POS. Now she is getting divorced. Haha. That was smart of them. The after school workouts led by Mr POS are cancelled, haha. Wretchedness, indeed.

Then she goes back to lonely apartment, which doesn't feel good at all either. OM's love making seems so shallow and unworthy now. It turned of to be just fvcking. Divorce is coming. More depressing thoughts.

I suspect that Dof2's polite indifference is making him attractive to her. She wants to bed him, then talk reconciliation. After sex the tears will flow. It will be easier to have sex again than discuss things seriously. 

What was said at the last MC session? Why wasn't another appointment booked?


----------



## aug

dadof2 said:


> She has an apartment about 10 mins from my house. She has been fishing for reasons to come by, always something regarding the kids. We have done a couple of MC sessions the last few weeks, but don't have anymore scheduled. *What I am having trouble with is seeing her show remorse and do heavy lifting. I expect her to be moving mountains to show remorse, but that is not her style. * I understand that if it was important to her that she would be doing anything and everything she could. But my therapist said that just because she is not doing it the way I would do it, doesn't mean she isn't taking steps.
> 
> That meant a lot to me, so I am trying to see things her way. She has apologized to me a few times and always brings some type of treat or gift when she comes to the house. She is very hot and cold. I am trying not to get my hopes up, staying detached but not mean to her.



I disagree about her style of not moving mountains. She filed for divorce. She filed a RO against you. These 2 steps she took were intense and should be classified as "moving mountains".

At the very least, has she withdrew either two?


----------



## just got it 55

Nucking Futs said:


> If she can't put in _at least_ as much effort to reconcile as she did to betray then she's not worth reconciling with.
> 
> These two efforts should not even approach matching.


But.... but.... but... NF it was sooooh easy for her to kick the sh!t out of him. cut his heart out with a spoon and feed it to a stray cat and giggle while doing it.

And then tell everybody what a abuser he is.

Shouldn't this be a piece of cake for her

Sorry bad pun

I continue to stress no public apology no R period

55


----------



## just got it 55

tom67 said:


> :iagree:
> He should also start putting himself out there and at least try to start dating nothing serious then he will see whether she is serious or not or he won't really care one way or the other by then.


Yes Tommy it's fvcking time to see what his options for future happiness are.

55


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

bandit.45 said:


> Dadof2 I recommend you visit Surviving Infidelity. Go to the Wayward forum and read the threads there. It is an education.
> 
> One common thing they talk about is how hard it us, right when they come off the affair, to feel remorse and compassion for their spouse. It takes many of them months to get their heads cleared to where they begin to feel the empathy and remorse that their BSs require, and often times by the time they do get to that point it is too late and their BSs have said " fvck it" and moved on.
> 
> Be patient. Your WW is still in the fog. She's probably also embarrassed, feeling used by the OM and pretty stupid right now. Couple that with stubborn pride and it may take her a long time to give you the heartfelt apology you need.


Bandit, I visited that site and spent some time reading WS forums and BS forums. WOW... Very different than this site.


----------



## tom67

just got it 55 said:


> Yes Tommy it's fvcking time to see what his options for future happiness are.
> 
> 55


It is f^ck it if she doesn't like it.
Might be refreshing to go out with someone without a thousand issues go figure.:lol:
Do2 it sounds like you are doing great.


----------



## bandit.45

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Bandit, I visited that site and spent some time reading WS forums and BS forums. WOW... Very different than this site.


I don't recommend that a BS follow the advice given there, but it's interesting to see how the waywards on that site coach each other. Like the blind leading the blind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

President Bush -- Fool me Once - YouTube


----------



## jim123

bandit.45 said:


> If she wanted to stop the D process she would have already.
> 
> She's stringing him along.


No question about it. The question is whether the affair is continuing or is it living the single life.

She is just giving him enough to keep him in line.

She is in control.


----------



## Syco

I find this thread pretty depressing to be brutally honest. You get a restraining order, and yet you're still waiting for her to show some remorse?! 

As others have said, she should explain her actions regarding the RO to her family etc. and THEN MAYBE she gets a chance at reconciliation.


----------



## LongWalk

Syco,

I disagree. His wife lost her mind but she detached from POSOM rather quickly.

Dof2 does not yet know what went on in her head. He deserves to hear her speak honestly. If he stays steady on his current course, she will spill her guts sooner rather than later. He should not display emotional hurt now because he is showing that he is strong. That is attractive to her. Furthermore, being strong helps him cope.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Syco said:


> I find this thread pretty depressing to be brutally honest. You get a restraining order, and yet you're still waiting for her to show some remorse?!
> 
> As others have said, *she should explain her actions regarding the RO to her family etc. and THEN MAYBE she gets a chance at reconciliation.*





LongWalk said:


> Syco,
> 
> I disagree. His wife lost her mind but she detached from POSOM rather quickly.
> 
> *Dof2 does not yet know what went on in her head. He deserves to hear her speak honestly. If he stays steady on his current course, she will spill her guts sooner rather than later. He should not display emotional hurt now because he is showing that he is strong. That is attractive to her. Furthermore, being strong helps him cope.*


Longwalk, nothing you say in the part I bolded negates Syco's point. I agree with it, he should stand strong and see where she ends up, but if she is truly remorseful she will not allow her lies to stand. If she doesn't correct the record and he reconciles with her anyway he'll have tacitly admitted to what she said.


----------



## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> Longwalk, nothing you say in the part I bolded negates Syco's point. I agree with it, he should stand strong and see where she ends up, but if she is truly remorseful she will not allow her lies to stand. If she doesn't correct the record and he reconciles with her anyway he'll have tacitly admitted to what she said.


:iagree:
This should not be negotiable imo.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I'm a big fan of accuracy too...


----------



## aug

LongWalk said:


> Syco,
> 
> I disagree.* His wife lost her mind but she detached from POSOM rather quickly.
> *
> Dof2 does not yet know what went on in her head. He deserves to hear her speak honestly. If he stays steady on his current course, she will spill her guts sooner rather than later. He should not display emotional hurt now because he is showing that he is strong. That is attractive to her. Furthermore, being strong helps him cope.




Lost her mind? Doubt it.

Your observation is that she dropped the posom quickly. If so, it shows that she is able to drop both OP and POSOM quickly. Is she going to do that a third time? I wonder if that's part of her character - to detach quickly?


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2 cannot reconcile if she doesn't come clean. She must make a major effort. She cannot reconcile if he is unapproachable. Only Dof2 knows how to read her. If her self esteem is low, he needs to leave her openings. This does not have to be surrender of principle.


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> Dof2 cannot reconcile if she doesn't come clean. She must make a major effort. She cannot reconcile if he is unapproachable. Only Dof2 knows how to read her. If her self esteem is low, he needs to leave her openings. This does not have to be surrender of principle.


Yes I know I am supposed to be a hardass and not talk to her, but all that does is push her away. I know how she reacts to certain behaviors, so I am trying to use that knowledge to get her to continue to take steps. I have been very distant in dealing with her, but I realized early on that I have to treat her with kid gloves. I don't like it, because I know what I would be doing if I was in her shoes and wanted to save the marriage, but she isn't as up front about it.

Obviously its all a moot point if she continued to see OM outside of work.


----------



## bandit.45

It's all moot until you have verified she and the OM are through. 

My gut tells me they are still communicating or more...hence her half ass attempts at MC and R. 

Dad I think you need to force the issue with the D proceedings. Ask your lawyer if there is any way to speed things up. That should send a clear signal to your WW that you are not playing games.


----------



## Chaparral

I think she figured out posom was just another yoga perv. No telling what she has heard about since all this started. She fell for a line, hook line and sinker.

I think you need to make a list of what you need to find out and what you want. Work on the list one or two items at a time.

My first item would be whose idea was the ro.

Did he bang any of the other women in the yoga class.

Is she sure she wants to save her family.

Etc.


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, I think you might want to google yoga scandals.

Many yoga instructors have used the classes to seduce women.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

dadof2 said:


> Yes I know I am supposed to be a hardass and not talk to her, but all that does is push her away. I know how she reacts to certain behaviors, so I am trying to use that knowledge to get her to continue to take steps. I have been very distant in dealing with her, but I realized early on that I have to treat her with kid gloves. I don't like it, because I know what I would be doing if I was in her shoes and wanted to save the marriage, but she isn't as up front about it.
> 
> Obviously its all a moot point if she continued to see OM outside of work.


I'm glad you brought up the effect of "hardass." There are different kinds of strength, constructive and destructive. One builds up and the other tears down the relationship. Dadof2 is discovering in real time which one does what. When my exH or my current H have shown destructive strength it pushes me away HARD. When they have shown constructive strength it is a serious magnet. Destructive strength his selfish in a brash, thumbing your nose, immature, hard, overt or passive aggressive tactics. Constructive strength is appropriate self care, boundaries, activities, communication without being destructive to the other person. There is a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference. Choose your strength wisely.


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> Yes I know I am supposed to be a hardass and not talk to her, but all that does is push her away. I know how she reacts to certain behaviors, so I am trying to use that knowledge to get her to continue to take steps. I have been very distant in dealing with her, but I realized early on that I have to treat her with kid gloves. I don't like it, because I know what I would be doing if I was in her shoes and wanted to save the marriage, but she isn't as up front about it.


So basically, because she's 'delicate,' you have to spoon feed her how to 'win' you back when you are already obviously just practically BEGGING her to say 'can I come home.' 

Push her away?! GOOD! LET it push her away. LET her see that SHE BEARS RESPONSIBILITY and she has to earn you back and that you WILL leave her. WTH, dad?


----------



## BjornFree

dadof2 said:


> * I have been very distant in dealing with her, but I realized early on that I have to treat her with kid gloves. I don't like it, because I know what I would be doing if I was in her shoes and wanted to save the marriage, but she isn't as up front about it.*


Notice the bold part? This is how you've always treated her, with kid gloves. Part of getting over set backs is to unlearn behaviors. 

Look at it this way, if you come from a position of strength she'll either shape up or ship out. You're better off in any case.

Her halfassed commitment to R should not be the prelude to the strong marriage you're hoping this will become. Sorry dude, but that's how it is.


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

If I understand correctly, you won't let her hit the rock bottom (that she needs to hit in order to really address her issues and the A issues), because she's delicate and has to be treated in kid gloves?

To me it sounds like a form/"reason" to partially rugsweep, and codependent to some extent.

But to each his own, I guess. I just fear that you'll get hurt again in the future because you were too easy on her this time around. I hope you'll stay on TAM for a long time, so we'll be able to help you with the R (if you go down that road).

Best wishes!


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

I support your approach. When your WW was overjoyed to eat breakfast with you that was a good sign in the context of her erratic behavior. She wanted normalcy.

The hard line posters are right, too. 

Put POSOM on Cheaterville. He will call your WW and ask her to take it down. 

How she copes with this will tell you a great deal. If she sympathizes with him, you will know that he still has a place in her heart.

If you simply and calmly reply to her "why do you care what happens to him?", she should drop his cause like a piece of rotting fruit.

You can have some other topic of conversation ready. Some joint activity with your children, for example.

There are always debates about what to ask a cheater. 

Maybe you should be gentle with her if she is remorseful. How do you know she is?


----------



## manfromlamancha

dadof2 said:


> Yes I know I am supposed to be a hardass and not talk to her, but all that does is push her away. I know how she reacts to certain behaviors, so I am trying to use that knowledge to get her to continue to take steps. I have been very distant in dealing with her, but I realized early on that I have to treat her with kid gloves. I don't like it, because I know what I would be doing if I was in her shoes and wanted to save the marriage, but she isn't as up front about it.
> 
> Obviously its all a moot point if she continued to see OM outside of work.


And is she still seeing OM outside of work ? Do you know ?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Its a balance between not enabling poor behavior in her, including the behaviors in her that cause you to have to walk on eggshells around her and not being destructive to her person. Healthy laser accurate accountability does that.


----------



## highwing

dadof2 said:


> Yes I know I am supposed to be a hardass and not talk to her, but all that does is push her away. I know how she reacts to certain behaviors, so I am trying to use that knowledge to get her to continue to take steps. I have been very distant in dealing with her, but I realized early on that I have to treat her with kid gloves. I don't like it, because I know what I would be doing if I was in her shoes and wanted to save the marriage, but she isn't as up front about it.
> 
> Obviously its all a moot point if she continued to see OM outside of work.


This sounds like you might be starting to sweep it under the carpet. Tread carefully here. Do not forget how she treated you recently.


----------



## Hicks

I think you being distant to protect yourself and treating her with kid gloves is going to be misinterpreted. You think you are in the drivers seat but she will eventually get tired of "trying" and give up.

You can be direct but nice. You can advocate for things you would want and need without committing anything to her.

Have you asked her what her intentions are? Has she flat out told you she wants to reconcile?

Here's an example. You an ask her flat out "Are you interested in reconciliation?" If she answers yes you can say "I cannot consider reconciliation without being 100% sure no other men are in the picture".

This is not a confrontation. This is a statement of fact. And you are not committing to anything or making her do anything. All you need to do is sit back and watch what she does:
-- If she comes unglued, you will know that there is another man in the picture.
-- If she twists what you said, bring it back on point and repeat what you said, but it probably means there is another man in the picture.
-- If she asks what she can do to prove it to you you can tell her "I have no idea. You have to figure that part out".


----------



## turnera

Blossom Leigh said:


> Its a balance between not enabling poor behavior in her, including the behaviors in her that cause you to have to walk on eggshells around her and not being destructive to her person. Healthy laser accurate accountability does that.


I am in NO way saying to be destructive to her. If I were him, I would be ignoring her unless addressed (and no 4-hour phone calls!), I would be spending ALL my time either with my kids or with my family or with my friends, and NONE with her. So that she can see what her actions wrought. She NEEDS to see what being left alone feels like as a result of her choices. She needs to see her possible future - a life where dad is just that man who used to be married to her because she chose not to do any hard work nor to get outside her comfort zone. Scary? Tough. That's what being an adult means.

I would be treating her NO more special than everyone else I know because (1) she doesn't deserve it and (2) it only enables her to not improve herself. And if that means she ends up divorced, because she's unwilling to do anything differently than she has all her life, well, then that is HER choice.

But I get the feeling that what's really going on is that dad never had any intention of leaving her and now that OM is gone, all he wants is to be back with her, no matter if she does ANYthing to deserve him back. And that's sad. Because sometime in the next 5, 10, 20 years, when he relaxes and doesn't keep up the 'you're a goddess' routine, she'll get bored and cheat again.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> I am in NO way saying to be destructive to her. If I were him, I would be ignoring her unless addressed (and no 4-hour phone calls!), I would be spending ALL my time either with my kids or with my family or with my friends, and NONE with her. So that she can see what her actions wrought. She NEEDS to see what being left alone feels like as a result of her choices. She needs to see her possible future - a life where dad is just that man who used to be married to her because she chose not to do any hard work nor to get outside her comfort zone. Scary? Tough. That's what being an adult means.
> 
> I would be treating her NO more special than everyone else I know because (1) she doesn't deserve it and (2) it only enables her to not improve herself. And if that means she ends up divorced, because she's unwilling to do anything differently than she has all her life, well, then that is HER choice.
> 
> But I get the feeling that what's really going on is that dad never had any intention of leaving her and now that OM is gone, all he wants is to be back with her, no matter if she does ANYthing to deserve him back. And that's sad. Because sometime in the next 5, 10, 20 years, when he relaxes and doesn't keep up the 'you're a goddess' routine, she'll get bored and cheat again.


Agreed... And Girl... you know I don't feel you were advocating being destructive.. lol

Tough Love is NOT destructive

It totally falls in the constructive camp

Tough Love is EXACTLY what I did this year to my H


----------



## aug

Hicks said:


> -- If she asks what she can do to prove it to you you can tell her "I have no idea. You have to figure that part out".


If she asks this then there's probably another or same man still in the picture.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

turnera said:


> So basically, because she's 'delicate,' you have to spoon feed her how to 'win' you back when you are already obviously just practically BEGGING her to say 'can I come home.'
> 
> Push her away?! GOOD! LET it push her away. LET her see that SHE BEARS RESPONSIBILITY and she has to earn you back and that you WILL leave her. WTH, dad?


I agree. You ain't gonna "nice" her back in to the marriage. Not gonna nice her away from this OM, or any subsiquent OM(s).

She's use to handeling you and the way you've always acted towards her.

I think as far as she's concerned, you haven't changed, so why should she. She probably figures that she can come back to you(if she even wants to come back) with minimal effort(heavy lifting).

If this is the case, I would have to agree with her line of thinking as far as R is concerned.

You shouldn't have to "spoon feed" her anything. If she's hungry enough, she'll feed her self.


----------



## tom67

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I agree. You ain't gonna "nice" her back in to the marriage. Not gonna nice her away from this OM, or any subsiquent OM(s).
> 
> She's use to handeling you and the way you've always acted towards her.
> 
> I think as far as she's concerned, you haven't changed, so why should she. She probably figures that she can come back to you(if she even wants to come back) with minimal effort(heavy lifting).
> 
> If this is the case, I would have to agree with her line of thinking as far as R is concerned.
> 
> You shouldn't have to "spoon feed" her anything. If she's hungry enough, she'll feed her self.


:iagree:
I think he has changed but to regress and walk on eggshells when it should be her.:scratchhead:
Anyway


----------



## happyman64

Dof2

You are doing great. You know best how to handle your wife.

How have your kids been handling all of the changes so far?

HM


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> Dof2
> 
> You are doing great. You know best how to handle your wife.
> 
> How have your kids been handling all of the changes so far?
> 
> HM


Yes overall he is doing well it will be a roller coaster.
Sorry if we are over analyzing.


----------



## lordmayhem

dadof2 said:


> Yes I know I am supposed to be a hardass and not talk to her, *but all that does is push her away*. I know how she reacts to certain behaviors, so I am trying to use that knowledge to get her to continue to take steps. I have been very distant in dealing with her, but I realized early on that I have to treat her with kid gloves. I don't like it, because I know what I would be doing if I was in her shoes and wanted to save the marriage, but she isn't as up front about it.
> 
> Obviously its all a moot point if she continued to see OM outside of work.


I haven't been on this thread in a while, and this is what it has come to? You're treating her with kid gloves? Walking on eggshells around her? You're supposed to be doing the 180 and detaching, not practically begging her back. 










I can see where this is headed. Someone remind me who was the one cheated on here.

R is earned not given away! Otherwise you're just enabling the behavior. Then it's going to be wash, rinse, repeat.


----------



## tom67

lordmayhem said:


> I haven't been on this thread in a while, and this is what it has come to? You're treating her with kid gloves? Walking on eggshells around her? You're supposed to be doing the 180 and detaching, not practically begging her back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see where this is headed. Someone remind me who was the one cheated on here.
> 
> R is earned not given away! Otherwise you're just enabling the behavior. Then it's going to be wash, rinse, repeat.


Lordmayhem he had a setback.:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Nucking Futs

tom67 said:


> Lordmayhem he is having a setback.:iagree::iagree::iagree:


Fify.


----------



## jim123

lordmayhem said:


> I haven't been on this thread in a while, and this is what it has come to? You're treating her with kid gloves? Walking on eggshells around her? You're supposed to be doing the 180 and detaching, not practically begging her back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see where this is headed. Someone remind me who was the one cheated on here.
> 
> R is earned not given away! Otherwise you're just enabling the behavior. Then it's going to be wash, rinse, repeat.


She has not even asked for R. She has yet to give OP her terms for his surrender assuming she wants it. He is plan B. 

She is either in the affair or still looking a new plan A. At this time there is no reason for her to R. She has OP hooked.


----------



## LongWalk

To all who say Do2 is messing up. Well, the D is going forward. That is action. It is putting real pressure on her. In her mind the consequences are real.

If Dof2 reconciles, he will have to deal with mind movies when they have sex. He still doesn't know who dumped whom. He is aware of these issues. Expect him to not act rashly. (I hope).


----------



## Blossom Leigh

And plan B can be a misnomer. Unless you are in her mind, you do not know. Speaking from personal experience. I waited 17 years for my ex to make ME his plan A. At the end if 17 years and one affair by me 9 years in, I still fought hard to get him to see his neglect. He was too much my plan A and I was wrecking myself trying to be his plan A. I finally left after a very painful experience with him behind closed doors. When I left I was still hurting that I was never his plan A in all that tIme. Everything and everyone else were his priority. So affairs are not that cut and dry. In SOME affairs AP's are just poor substitutes for what you actually want at home. I spoke to my ex til I was blue in the face and in the end he just flat out lacked the capacity. But my desire for him as my plan A never waned. When I realized how hard I was wrecking myself is when I chose to pull the plug on it and recover.


----------



## davecarter

davecarter said:


> Anyone....get that gut-feeling this isn't going to end well for Do2...


----------



## dadof2

This has definitely been a rollercoaster. I feel like I have done well overall considering how swift and destructive this all was. As I mentioned in earlier posts, about a month ago I was doing pretty good. I realized that this D was not what I wanted, but I was beginning to accept it. I bought new furniture, moved the rest of STBX's stuff out, and took a vacation. I was finally beginning to detach.

Then STBX starting sniffing around again, and I was very cautious. We did a few things together with the children and I must admit it was nice for everyone. But I believe that she was just testing to see if she could still keep me as plan B. We have gone to 2 MC sessions the last 2 weeks but have no more scheduled. It seems like the easy stuff (family time) was great but when STBX started having to answer the hard questions (MC) she has fallen back into her old ways. I don't have any proof of her with OM, but I also know she isn't volunteering to spend time with me. I have learned that when I don't hear from her, it usually means she's up to something. She is not the kind to just sit around the house watching soap operas.

Like someone said before, its like 2 knife fighters circling. One of us steps forward and does something nice, then we have a few good days. Then it is back to silence for a few days. I could take that if it wasn't for the OM. I have to think that he is still in the picture, and they definitely see each other at work every day. It seems to me that she knows my biggest hurdle right now is trust, and when she doesn't have the kids she does nothing to let me know where she is or what she's doing. That would be the first thing I would do if I were in her shoes.


----------



## turnera

Have you stopped the phone marathons?


----------



## dadof2

turnera said:


> Have you stopped the phone marathons?


We have never had any long conversations on the phone. Neither one of us are phone people.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> Have you stopped the phone marathons?


I think that is droog's thread


----------



## thummper

Sorry, dad. I can't even begin to imagine the frustrations you're having to deal with. Your wife seems to be very confused about what she ultimately wants. Good luck to you however this turns out.


----------



## turnera

Blossom Leigh said:


> I think that is droog's thread


Oh, I'm so sorry! My bad! Ignore me.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> Oh, I'm so sorry! My bad! Ignore me.


giggle... its ok... even my post was geared more towards droogs thread...


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



turnera said:


> Have you stopped the phone marathons?


Wires crossed with droog.


----------



## Nucking Futs

LongWalk said:


> *To all who say Do2 is messing up. Well, the D is going forward.* That is action. It is putting real pressure on her. In her mind the consequences are real.
> 
> If Dof2 reconciles, he will have to deal with mind movies when they have sex. He still doesn't know who dumped whom. He is aware of these issues. Expect him to not act rashly. (I hope).


Correct me if I'm wrong, but WW filed the divorce, not Do2. So the fact that it's still going forward is evidence for the side of the argument that claims she's not really interested in R and is just trying to keep Do2 as plan B.

She has made a few very minor overtures towards R, but has not done anything significant enough to say she's actually remorseful and wants R.


----------



## SadSamIAm

dadof2 said:


> This has definitely been a rollercoaster. I feel like I have done well overall considering how swift and destructive this all was. As I mentioned in earlier posts, about a month ago I was doing pretty good. I realized that this D was not what I wanted, but I was beginning to accept it. I bought new furniture, moved the rest of STBX's stuff out, and took a vacation. I was finally beginning to detach.
> 
> Then STBX starting sniffing around again, and I was very cautious. We did a few things together with the children and I must admit it was nice for everyone. But I believe that she was just testing to see if she could still keep me as plan B. We have gone to 2 MC sessions the last 2 weeks but have no more scheduled. It seems like the easy stuff (family time) was great but when STBX started having to answer the hard questions (MC) she has fallen back into her old ways. I don't have any proof of her with OM, but I also know she isn't volunteering to spend time with me. I have learned that when I don't hear from her, it usually means she's up to something. She is not the kind to just sit around the house watching soap operas.
> 
> Like someone said before, its like 2 knife fighters circling. One of us steps forward and does something nice, then we have a few good days. Then it is back to silence for a few days. I could take that if it wasn't for the OM. I have to think that he is still in the picture, and they definitely see each other at work every day. It seems to me that she knows my biggest hurdle right now is trust, and when she doesn't have the kids she does nothing to let me know where she is or what she's doing. That would be the first thing I would do if I were in her shoes.


I think you need to set some firm boundaries and then go back to the 180. No more family time with her. No more two nice days with her, just so she knows she has you as Plan B. Let the divorce proceed and stop any communication with her except regarding the kids.


----------



## Chaparral

At this point you need to get the PI back on the job. Anything is possible, new man, same guy as before, looking for another man. Etc.

With her actions though you need to find out what is really going on. She may have dropped the om but has no intentions of saving the marriage.

Definitely go back to the 180 but remember the be cheerful part.


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2 is not providing that much info, so people are speculating. I assume that the status quo is still in effect. They do not live together. The divorce is rolling forward. She may have initiated it but now wishes it were off. She does not know what to say to stop it and she should be racking her brain to figure out how to broach the subject.

Probably she has a romance novel fantasy in which Dof2 and her are in a comfortable situation and he kisses her. She starts to explain and he breaks her off and says, I know everything and forgive you. The reality is that is not going to happen. Dof2 is not going reconcile blindly and leave himself vulnerable to a failed marriage down the line.

Dof2,

How often do you meet each week to exchange the kids?

What have you learned from your in-laws? Is your wife reaching out to your family?


----------



## Nucking Futs

LongWalk said:


> Dof2 is not providing that much info, so people are speculating. I assume that the status quo is still in effect. They do not live together. The divorce is rolling forward. She may have initiated it but now wishes it were off. She does not know what to say to stop it and she should be racking her brain to figure out how to broach the subject.


I couldn't disagree with this more. This is an educated woman who had no trouble figuring out how to start a divorce, she certainly isn't so ignorant or stupid that she can't figure out how to stop it.



LongWalk said:


> *Probably she has a romance novel fantasy in which Dof2 and her are in a comfortable situation and he kisses her. She starts to explain and he breaks her off and says, I know everything and forgive you. *The reality is that is not going to happen. Dof2 is not going reconcile blindly and leave himself vulnerable to a failed marriage down the line.


This wouldn't surprise me at all.



LongWalk said:


> Dof2,
> 
> How often do you meet each week to exchange the kids?
> 
> What have you learned from your in-laws? Is your wife reaching out to your family?


Good questions. Let me take a crack at the last two and Dof2 can correct me.

_What have you learned from your in-laws?_
He's learned that she told them that he's abusive and they believe she's right for leaving him.

_Is your wife reaching out to your family?_
No.

Dof2, you were going to put the PI back on her when she first started hinting at R, did you do that?


----------



## dadof2

The more I think about it the more I see her trying to make me Plan B. I think she feels like she can come home anytime and I will just rugsweep it for her. This was pretty clear after our first MC session 2 weeks ago. She fessed up pretty good in there, but ever since then she has tried to make it look like I can't let it go. We have only brought up the affair twice outside of counseling. Sure the family dinners are nice but when she started having to deal with the consequences of her actions (NC call, timeline, etc.) she started backpedalling. This shows me she cannot do the heavy lifting needed to make this marriage work for the long haul.

I truly believe deep down she knows she can come back on her terms and that I will take her back right before the divorce is finalized. She is stringing me along right now and there is really nothing I can do about it other than stop contact with her. The only remaining hurdle left legally is the CP settlement. She has already signed off on custody, visitation, and support. So she really has no consequences- since she filed for divorce, I can't use the threat of D to wake her up.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

dadof2 said:


> She is stringing me along right now and there is really nothing I can do about it other than stop contact with her.


Then go with your gut... No contact outside of healthy co-parenting for your kids. They need to be your focus now. If she drifts to the back of your mind and you focus on your kids and yourself, you will be well on your way to a good healing process post divorce. So sorry...


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> The more I think about it the more I see her trying to make me Plan B. I think she feels like she can come home anytime and I will just rugsweep it for her. This was pretty clear after our first MC session 2 weeks ago. She fessed up pretty good in there, but ever since then she has tried to make it look like I can't let it go. We have only brought up the affair twice outside of counseling. Sure the family dinners are nice but when she started having to deal with the consequences of her actions (NC call, timeline, etc.) she started backpedalling. This shows me she cannot do the heavy lifting needed to make this marriage work for the long haul.
> 
> I truly believe deep down she knows she can come back on her terms and that I will take her back right before the divorce is finalized. She is stringing me along right now and there is really nothing I can do about it other than stop contact with her. The only remaining hurdle left legally is the CP settlement. She has already signed off on custody, visitation, and support. So she really has no consequences- since she filed for divorce, I can use the threat of D to wake her up.


You show her by dating other women and being happy without her.
Just talk about the kids short and to the point don't have to be an @ss but you can occasionally remind her we are coparenting not friends.
Then MAYBE she realizes you are not plan B.


----------



## farsidejunky

DO2:

Longwalk has been right about you. Your head is on straight. Keep at it, and no matter what happens, you will be fine.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

tom67 said:


> You show her by dating other women and being happy without her.
> 
> Just talk about the kids short and to the point don't have to be an @ss but you can occasionally remind her we are coparenting not friends.
> 
> Then MAYBE she realizes you are not plan B.



Exactly. Basically you turn it around to make HER plan B.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> The more I think about it the more I see her trying to make me Plan B. I think she feels like she can come home anytime and I will just rugsweep it for her. This was pretty clear after our first MC session 2 weeks ago. She fessed up pretty good in there, but ever since then she has tried to make it look like I can't let it go. We have only brought up the affair twice outside of counseling. Sure the family dinners are nice but when she started having to deal with the consequences of her actions (NC call, timeline, etc.) she started backpedalling. This shows me she cannot do the heavy lifting needed to make this marriage work for the long haul.
> 
> I truly believe deep down she knows she can come back on her terms and that I will take her back right before the divorce is finalized. She is stringing me along right now and there is really nothing I can do about it other than stop contact with her. The only remaining hurdle left legally is the CP settlement. She has already signed off on custody, visitation, and support. So she really has no consequences- since she filed for divorce, I can't use the threat of D to wake her up.


It's time for an honest conversation. You know which words to use...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...w-om-has-been-discovered-87.html#post10078842

Honestly, you've got nothing to lose at this point. If she rebuffs you at all, you can wash your hands of your marriage and walk away w/ your head held high, secure in the knowledge that you made every reasonable effort to keep your marriage and family whole.


----------



## Openminded

Some cheaters make it obvious their spouse is not Plan B. Yours hasn't. So continue on with your life until she makes it crystal clear she is truly willing to do the work required for a successful R.


----------



## turnera

dad, if part of you still wants her to turn around and choose you, I urge you to consider letting her SEE you getting out and living your life without her. Let her see what your life will be like once she's out of the picture. "Hey, can you watch the kids Friday? I have a concert I want to go to."

I'm NOT telling you to date, but to visibly go out and start enjoying your life; if nothing else will do it, this one thing just might get her thinking hey wait a minute.


----------



## BobSimmons

110 pages of co-dependency


----------



## Blossom Leigh

speaking of... Codependency No More may be a good read for you OP


----------



## davecarter

BobSimmons said:


> 110 pages of co-dependency


Nailed-on.


----------



## dadof2

BobSimmons said:


> 110 pages of co-dependency


You're probably right, I can admit that I have taken more abuse form STBX than I should have. But I think about our 2 young children's future every day, and I know that having a loving mommy and daddy home together gives them the best chance of success. So I think that is why I have been so reluctant to accept this marriage as finished.

I am starting to realize what others have said earlier, that at the end of this whole drama, she may not be the "prize" that I thought she was. Its more like I am fixated on winning this battle and not letting her call the shots. I know that is a skewed way to look at it, but its honestly how I feel. I got a favorable custody and support agreement, and I am happy about that. But the feeling of rejection stings me to the core.


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> You're probably right, I can admit that I have taken more abuse form STBX than I should have. But I think about our 2 young children's future every day, and I know that having a loving mommy and daddy home together gives them the best chance of success. So I think that is why I have been so reluctant to accept this marriage as finished.
> 
> I am starting to realize what others have said earlier, that at the end of this whole drama, she may not be the "prize" that I thought she was. Its more like I am fixated on winning this battle and not letting her call the shots. I know that is a skewed way to look at it, but its honestly how I feel. I got a favorable custody and support agreement, and I am happy about that. But the feeling of rejection stings me to the core.



Then reject her. 

Like someone before mentioned: let her be your Plan B.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Then reject her."

Exactly.

I think this is the one thing that most WSs never expect, especially if they have been dealing with a partner the see as weak and clingy.

And it bothers them far more than any of them would ever admit.

Let's face it...most of them are ego junkies and they EXPECT their BSs to beg and plead for them to come back...to be a nice, compliant Plan B just waiting in the wings for the 'prize' that they consider themselves to be to return to the M.

Utterly rejecting them and kicking them to the curb hard bruises their self-centered egos....they cannot believe that their BSs are actually pushing them away.

And for someone so self-centered, this will hurt...even if they would never admit it.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



Blossom Leigh said:


> speaking of... Codependency No More may be a good read for you OP


It's a good read for everybody, even if you aren't codependent.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



dadof2 said:


> You're probably right, I can admit that I have taken more abuse form STBX than I should have. But I think about our 2 young children's future every day, and I know that having a loving mommy and daddy home together gives them the best chance of success. So I think that is why I have been so reluctant to accept this marriage as finished.
> 
> I am starting to realize what others have said earlier, that at the end of this whole drama, she may not be the "prize" that I thought she was. Its more like I am fixated on winning this battle and not letting her call the shots. I know that is a skewed way to look at it, but its honestly how I feel. I got a favorable custody and support agreement, and I am happy about that. But the feeling of rejection stings me to the core.


It doesn't have to be *this* mommy does it?


----------



## Graywolf2

dadof2 said:


> The more I think about it the more I see her trying to make me Plan B. I truly believe deep down she knows she can come back on her terms and that I will take her back right before the divorce is finalized. She is stringing me along right now and there is really nothing I can do about it other than stop contact with her.


I would keep things going the the way they are now. String her along for a nice smooth divorce.


----------



## LongWalk

How often are you eating meals together?


----------



## bandit.45

Dyokemm said:


> "Then reject her."
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> I think this is the one thing that most WSs never expect, especially if they have been dealing with a partner the see as weak and clingy.
> 
> And it bothers them far more than any of them would ever admit.
> 
> Let's face it...most of them are ego junkies and they EXPECT their BSs to beg and plead for them to come back...to be a nice, compliant Plan B just waiting in the wings for the 'prize' that they consider themselves to be to return to the M.
> 
> Utterly rejecting them and kicking them to the curb hard bruises their self-centered egos....they cannot believe that their BSs are actually pushing them away.
> 
> And for someone so self-centered, this will hurt...even if they would never admit it.



The mindset is utterly astonishing. I was on SI reading the Wayward Side forum, and many of the waywards there exhibit this same mentality. They simply cannot fathom their BS rejecting them. 

"I just don't understand. I only cheated on my wife for the last two years of our marriage. Didn't the first twenty eight years together mean anything to her? Doesn't she owe me some consideration for being a dutiful husband all those years?" 

:crazy:


----------



## manfromlamancha

Do2, do you know or suspect that she is still seeing the OM ? Would be very useful and telling to know and save you a lot of hope and heartache.


----------



## bandit.45

manfromlamancha said:


> Do2, do you know or suspect that she is still seeing the OM ? Would be very useful and telling to know and save you a lot of hope and heartache.


I think she is still seeing the OM. 

Or...someone else. That's why she hasn't bought in to R.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

bandit.45 said:


> The mindset is utterly astonishing. I was on SI reading the Wayward Side forum, and many of the waywards there exhibit this same mentality. They simply cannot fathom their BS rejecting them.
> 
> "I just don't understand. I only cheated on my wife for the last two years of our marriage. Didn't the first twenty eight years together mean anything to her? Doesn't she owe me some consideration for being a dutiful husband all those years?"
> 
> :crazy:


Lack of understanding of the depth of the betrayal and ruptured soul.


----------



## manfromlamancha

bandit.45 said:


> I think she is still seeing the OM.
> 
> Or...someone else. That's why she hasn't bought in to R.


That's what I was thinking...

Do2 should find out - maybe time for PI again (just to help him put an end to this farce - if it is a farce).


----------



## Dyokemm

I think she is in analysis paralysis....she feels the distance growing with Do2 and fears her Plan B safe landing zone is disappearing....but at the same time there is no certainty with POS.

I would bet money that he got a stern talking to before the year started at work because of the exposure to the district and school board done by Do2 and his father.

He was probably warned of the potential damage to his career if the A becomes a public scandal at the school.

She probably got a similar talk, but as a supervisor/VP his warning was undoubtedly more stern.

As a result POS probably told WW that they had to cool it off, at least for awhile until she was finally divorced.

But the result for WW has been that now she is not sure if her Plan A, POS, is going to be a sure and reliable outcome for her.

Hence, she is trying to hedge her bets....she doesn't want Plan B disappearing while Plan A has this much uncertainty.


----------



## LongWalk

That is possible. But Dadof2 never go her email, texting, etc, so he does not know what happened.

Cheaterville would force the issue.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> That is possible. But Dadof2 never go her email, texting, etc, so he does not know what happened.
> 
> Cheaterville would force the issue.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## warlock07

dadof2 said:


> Yes I know I am supposed to be a hardass and not talk to her, but all that does is push her away. I know how she reacts to certain behaviors, so I am trying to use that knowledge to get her to continue to take steps. I have been very distant in dealing with her, but I realized early on that I have to treat her with kid gloves. I don't like it, because I know what I would be doing if I was in her shoes and wanted to save the marriage, but she isn't as up front about it.
> 
> Obviously its all a moot point if she continued to see OM outside of work.


And you wonder how you ended up in the position you were in in the first placed.

Abused, gaslighted, mistreated, cheated on and having had a RO filed on you because you are a controlling jealous psycho..


----------



## warlock07

dadof2 said:


> You're probably right, I can admit that I have taken more abuse form STBX than I should have. But I think about our 2 young children's future every day, and I know that having a loving mommy and daddy home together gives them the best chance of success. So I think that is why I have been so reluctant to accept this marriage as finished.
> 
> I am starting to realize what others have said earlier, that at the end of this whole drama, she may not be the "prize" that I thought she was. Its more like I am fixated on winning this battle and not letting her call the shots. I know that is a skewed way to look at it, but its honestly how I feel. I got a favorable custody and support agreement, and I am happy about that. But the feeling of rejection stings me to the core.


You have this realization then will revert back to the codependency once you hear a few nice words from your STBX(?)W. I guarantee it. 

You have nothing to base your hopes on R. That was what people were telling you. let her make a few postive steps for you to even start considering R as a possible scenario. You are only setting yourself up for more false hopes and disappointment for the kids.


----------



## tom67

warlock07 said:


> You have this realization then will revert back to the codependency once you hear a few nice words from your STBX(?)W. I guarantee it.
> 
> You have nothing to base your hopes on R. That was what people were telling you. let her make a few postive steps for you to even start considering R as a possible scenario. You are only setting yourself up for more false hopes and disappointment for the kids.


I thought there was a chance after MC.
Like I said now time to date!!!


----------



## jim123

dadof2 said:


> You're probably right, I can admit that I have taken more abuse form STBX than I should have. But I think about our 2 young children's future every day, and I know that having a loving mommy and daddy home together gives them the best chance of success. So I think that is why I have been so reluctant to accept this marriage as finished.
> 
> I am starting to realize what others have said earlier, that at the end of this whole drama, she may not be the "prize" that I thought she was. Its more like I am fixated on winning this battle and not letting her call the shots. I know that is a skewed way to look at it, but its honestly how I feel. I got a favorable custody and support agreement, and I am happy about that. But the feeling of rejection stings me to the core.


The only thing you can do is work on you and start moving on.

Make yourself the best person and dad you can be. 

It will work out one way or another.


----------



## bigfoot

D, you are finally starting to realize the truth that you have been avoiding for so long... she is NOT the prize. Your whole idealized comments about your kids needing "mommy and daddy" is so wrong IN YOUR SITUATION. Do you know who messes kids up the most? Their parents!!! Kids who grow up with screwed up parents, screwed up home lives, or messed up situations are THE MOST messed up folks that I know. Your wife is toxic to you and you are toxic with her and your kids will suffer. If she "came to her senses" just before divorce and you took her back, well, you would have only set your kids up for being screwed up adults. Sometimes, two people don't need to be together. Not because of infidelity, not because of co-dependency, but because they are a bad combination. 

You have been pursuing your wife for the sake of your kids when in fact that is the worst thing for your kids. Someone else pointed out that your thread has been 110 pages of co-dependency, and it has been. Now, you have had a MAJOR breakthrough. Keep going in that direction. She is not the prize. She is not good for you. 

Together, you all are not good for your kids. Make yourself stop caring what she thinks. If you can't do that, imagine your kids, years from now, telling you how screwed up their lives are and how much pain they are in and how they have realized it was because they grew up in a messed up home with you and your wife. What would you tell them, then? Would you tell them that their pain is worth it because you got their mom back? Would you apologize and tell them that if you could go back in time you would have never gotten back together and moved to be healthy? If you are thinking that things could be better with your wife once she saw the error of her ways, etc., then you are really just saying, "kid's I figured it was worth risking screwing up your lives with someone who had proved that they were willing to screw up our lives because I thought that maybe things would have worked out different. My bad."


----------



## turnera

I know for a fact that, had I left my H when DD24 was 10, she would have been even more amazing than she turned out. She would have been as level headed and driven and funny as she is now (which she gets from me), but she would NOT have had all the neurosis she's stuck with from having an overbearing, passive aggressive dad around 24/7 who her mother couldn't stand up to. She wouldn't be full of anxiety. She wouldn't fall apart when she had a car accident purely out of fear of her dad holding it over her head for years, like he does now, because I would have been able to shield her from his 24/7 presence. I would have been able to provide her ONE home in which she was 100% loved, never judged, free to express herself, and free from worry about getting 'punished' for upsetting her parent. But, it is what it is, I was too weak to leave. I tried to make up for him and for the most part I did. Shoulda coulda woulda.


----------



## davecarter

dadof2 said:


> But I think about our 2 young children's future every day, and I know that having a loving mommy and daddy home together gives them the best chance of success. So I think that is why I have been so reluctant to accept this marriage as finished.


A betrayed spouse that stays with their cheatng partner...._for the sake of the kids._
It's probably the most common excu....er...reason the betrayed comes up with in a final desperate effort to ensure their partner comes back to / stays with them.

:banghead:


----------



## dadof2

When I started the NC a few months back, it was very tough, but I had gotten to the point where I wasn't obsessing over where STBX was and what she was doing all the time. I admit it took me a while to get to that point. I was beginning to detach and I feel like she sensed that, and that is why she started fishing for things for us to do together. I told her flat out that I was very cautious and it was going to take a while to regain trust. She really hasn't done anything to prove she's trustworthy since we started talking again. To me it would be little things such as a call or text when she doesn't have the kids, things to let me know where she is at and that I can verify as the truth. Her big hangup with that is that she doesn't want to feel like someone is watching her all the time, that it "scares" her, hence the RO. I feel that she wants to go out and do whatever she wants without being accountable.

A while back a few posters said that I had to let her hit rock bottom on her own. I think she was on her way there, things may have been rocky with OM over the last month so she wanted to make sure I was still an option. We had a few good afternoons together with the kids, and maybe I let my heart jump ahead and think that things were working out. But now she is back to being accessible only when it is convenient for her. I have noticed that she texts/calls more when she has the kids and I am alone rather than when she is alone.

I am going back to NC, continuing my IC and we don't have any more MC sessions scheduled. I know deep down that OM will not last, even if she strings it out longer just to prove to me that she can. I am going to let that crash and burn on its own, and that is very hard to do. I have to get back to my path of not being there for her only when she wants. I admit it is easier said than done.

My SIL has a friend she wants to hook me up with, I told her to get me her # and I will ask her out for drinks. Gotta get back on the horse someday!!


----------



## Openminded

The sooner, the better!!


----------



## Chaparral

do not turn yella


----------



## Chaparral

*Her big hangup with that is that she doesn't want to feel like someone is watching her all the time*

Be sure to keep this on the tip of your tongue, when she finds out what you are doing.

You should not be texting/calling her nearly as much as she is calling/ texting you.

Have you read the MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER, yet. You lost the attraction of your wife, this is a guide to get it back...............for her or someone even better.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

dadof2 said:


> The more I think about it the more I see her trying to make me Plan B. I think she feels like she can come home anytime and I will just rugsweep it for her. This was pretty clear after our first MC session 2 weeks ago. She fessed up pretty good in there, but ever since then she has tried to make it look like I can't let it go. We have only brought up the affair twice outside of counseling. Sure the family dinners are nice but when she started having to deal with the consequences of her actions (NC call, timeline, etc.) she started backpedalling. This shows me she cannot do the heavy lifting needed to make this marriage work for the long haul.
> 
> I truly believe deep down she knows she can come back on her terms and that I will take her back right before the divorce is finalized. She is stringing me along right now and there is really nothing I can do about it other than stop contact with her. The only remaining hurdle left legally is the CP settlement. She has already signed off on custody, visitation, and support. So she really has no consequences- since she filed for divorce, I can't use the threat of D to wake her up.


This needs 2 be followed by a "what Dof2 wants his life 2 be like" kind of post.

What do you want? Go there.

-ol' 2long


----------



## tom67

My SIL has a friend she wants to hook me up with, I told her to get me her # and I will ask her out for drinks. Gotta get back on the horse someday!! 
Awesome!!!:smthumbup:
Wait when w finds out her own sister hooked you up.:lol::rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

dadof2 said:


> A while back a few posters said that I had to let her hit rock bottom on her own. I think she was on her way there, things may have been rocky with OM over the last month so she wanted to make sure I was still an option.


Yes. Never make someone a priority when they consider you an option. 



> I am going back to NC, continuing my IC and we don't have any more MC sessions scheduled. I know deep down that OM will not last, even if she strings it out longer just to prove to me that she can. I am going to let that crash and burn on its own, and that is very hard to do. I have to get back to my path of not being there for her only when she wants. I admit it is easier said than done.


In a matter of months, it will be as easily done as said, though. Wait for it. You will even2ally find yourself enjoying your soli2de and even dreading her calls. You might even find yourself not answering the phone. 



> My SIL has a friend she wants to hook me up with, I told her to get me her # and I will ask her out for drinks. Gotta get back on the horse someday!!


Yep!

-ol' 2long


----------



## dadof2

tom67 said:


> My SIL has a friend she wants to hook me up with, I told her to get me her # and I will ask her out for drinks. Gotta get back on the horse someday!!
> Awesome!!!:smthumbup:
> Wait when w finds out her own sister hooked you up.:lol::rofl::rofl::rofl:


I guess I should clarify: This SIL is my brother's wife!! STBX's sister is great but I don't think she would go that far!!


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> I guess I should clarify: This SIL is my brother's wife!! STBX's sister is great but I don't think she would go that far!!


Oh sorry
Anyway hope she's a cutie.


----------



## happyman64

dadof2 said:


> I guess I should clarify: This SIL is my brother's wife!! STBX's sister is great but I don't think she would go that far!!


You would be amazed at what her sister might do for you if she feels her own sister is acting like a [email protected]!

Normally I tell BS's not to date until they are divorced and confident with themselves again.

But not in your case.

Just be honest with whomever you date.

If your wife is keeping you at bay then show her that you are not "anyone's" option.

Go dark unless it is about the kids or divorce.

And if she asks or mentions anything about you dating all you have to say to her is that you need to find out what type of woman she has become.

She certainly is not the woman you fell in love with.
She certainly is not the woman you married and had children with.

Just politely remind her that you do have options and you need to explore them.

Be brave Do2. Because when you really think about it what option do you really have.....

And if your wife never steps up to the plate you have your answer don't you.

HM


----------



## LongWalk

dadof2 said:


> Her big hangup with that is that she doesn't want to feel like someone is watching her all the time, that it "scares" her, hence the RO. I feel that she wants to go out and do whatever she wants without being accountable.
> 
> *It's embarrassing and inconvenient when the betrayed husband cvck blocks. Do you have a conceal and carry permit? Have you threatened her?*
> 
> A while back a few posters said that I had to let her hit rock bottom on her own. I think she was on her way there, things may have been rocky with OM over the last month so she wanted to make sure I was still an option. We had a few good afternoons together with the kids, and maybe I let my heart jump ahead and think that things were working out. But now she is back to being accessible only when it is convenient for her.
> 
> *You mentioned hot and cold. Now we understand what you meant.*
> 
> I have noticed that she texts/calls more when she has the kids and I am alone rather than when she is alone.
> 
> *She is cvck blocking other women. Her selfish genes want to prevent you being exposed to STDs or unplanned pregnancy (of another woman).*
> 
> I am going back to NC, continuing my IC and we don't have any more MC sessions scheduled. I know deep down that OM will not last, even if she strings it out longer just to prove to me that she can. I am going to let that crash and burn on its own, and that is very hard to do. I have to get back to my path of not being there for her only when she wants. I admit it is easier said than done.
> 
> *So you no longer are certain that OM is history. That is why Cheaterville would put a stop to the affair.*
> 
> My SIL has a friend she wants to hook me up with, I told her to get me her # and I will ask her out for drinks. Gotta get back on the horse someday!!


Dadof2,

Your wife is decidedly less attractive than you painted her to be. However, pretty her face, she is manipulative and dishonest. The level of disrespect must make you angry.

She has also allowed your children to feel hope that mom and dad are making up. If you decide to NC, do it for your own sake. Don't announce it. Just wind it down in fact.

What subject does she teach? I'll bet she is not a math or science teacher.


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> Dadof2,
> 
> Your wife is decidedly less attractive than you painted her to be. However, pretty her face, she is manipulative and dishonest. The level of disrespect must make you angry.
> 
> She has also allowed your children to feel hope that mom and dad are making up. If you decide to NC, do it for your own sake. Don't announce it. Just wind it down in fact.
> 
> What subject does she teach? I'll bet she is not a math or science teacher.


Yes it makes me very angry to think how cold hearted she can be. And yes, it is very tempting when she comes over to see her in her short shorts and nice tan not to have those old feelings for her.

The last legal hurdle in front of us is to settle the community property. My lawyer has a proposal ready but I had been holding off on sending it. I think going ahead and sending it to her now will be a strong sign, along with the NC that I am back to being dark on her.


----------



## Chaparral

dadof2 said:


> Yes it makes me very angry to think how cold hearted she can be. And yes, it is very tempting when she comes over to see her in her short shorts and nice tan not to have those old feelings for her.
> 
> The last legal hurdle in front of us is to settle the community property. My lawyer has a proposal ready but I had been holding off on sending it. I think going ahead and sending it to her now will be a strong sign, along with the NC that I am back to being dark on her.


Have something ready to say when she gets this. She will probably act/be shocked.

Be ready to tell her you're puzzled because she just acts like she wants to be friends and that's ok with you. Not that I believe being friends after betrayal like this but sometimes you have to act one way and still be realistic.


----------



## Graywolf2

bigfoot said:


> D, you are finally starting to realize the truth that you have been avoiding for so long... she is NOT the prize.


If you want to be the prize send those papers and actually get the divorce. You can see other women or ultimately shack up with your ex-wife. Either way you will be more of a prize to all women including your ex.


----------



## BjornFree

dadof2, you're a great guy. Very level headed and open to accepting advice and criticism, that's a rare thing here. You've had a few setbacks, made a couple of mistakes but hey, who hasn't? You're on the right track. Best of luck to you


----------



## treyvion

Graywolf2 said:


> If you want to be the prize send those papers and actually get the divorce. You can see other women or ultimately shack up with your ex-wife. Either way you will be more of a prize to all women including your ex.


Prob the best thing he could do if he did want his ex for a main girlfriend is to go date. Get some girlfriends. She probably will want her old reliable back especially that he's been voted for by other babes.

This time you can have it in the thing in that you will help pay some bills around there, you guys can split it, but in no way are you paying for someone to cheat on you. If that happens your done right there on the spot.

By the way she might look good to the eyes, but I hope that old brain of yours is aware of all her tricks. My brain is a little different in that I will not consider a "pretty" trapper attractive anymore, because I'm adding in their actions to their image.


----------



## dadof2

BjornFree said:


> dadof2, you're a great guy. Very level headed and open to accepting advice and criticism, that's a rare thing here. You've had a few setbacks, made a couple of mistakes but hey, who hasn't? You're on the right track. Best of luck to you


Thanks, I'm trying to stay the course. I know it is very hard and the emotions can overwhelm me at times. I can't thank this forum enough for helping me as I go through this. Its not always what I want to hear but it is usually pretty spot on. I'm sure I post too much but its almost like a form of therapy for me, especially on bad days.


----------



## Nucking Futs

dadof2 said:


> Thanks, I'm trying to stay the course. I know it is very hard and the emotions can overwhelm me at times. I can't thank this forum enough for helping me as I go through this. Its not always what I want to hear but it is usually pretty spot on. I'm sure *I post too much *but its almost like a form of therapy for me, especially on bad days.


There's no such thing. You post as you feel the need or desire, nobody's making us read it.


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## happyman64

dadof2 said:


> Thanks, I'm trying to stay the course. I know it is very hard and the emotions can overwhelm me at times. I can't thank this forum enough for helping me as I go through this. Its not always what I want to hear but it is usually pretty spot on. I'm sure I post too much but its almost like a form of therapy for me, especially on bad days.


Ha! I wish you would post more.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



happyman64 said:


> Ha! I wish you would post more.


This. When we don't hear from you I get concerned she is reeling you in.


----------



## tom67

farsidejunky said:


> This. When we don't hear from you I get concerned she is reeling you in.


Or worse he's trying to get the knife she put in his back out.
Is it Friday yet?


----------



## dadof2

I am working on detaching and trying to get back to very limited contact about the kids only. Last weekend we had some family time at my house and it was nice. But I have realized that she is just sitting on the fence. I have told he before that I don't think it's a good idea for us to do things together because it may confuse the children. But then I let her come by to drop off things for the kids and she stayed for 3 hours. 

Right now she thinks everything is ok in her mind, she sends me a random text every now and then about the kids, etc. Then when she is by herself who knows what she is up to. I just feel like she was scared she was going to lose me a month or so ago and started turning up the charm and I let her back in too soon. Now she knows I am still here and she has gone back to less contact. 

I know I can't nice her out of this situation and I really think she doesn't know what she wants. But how do I tell her that I don't want to hear from her? Deep down I still like getting texts from her but I know it's keeping me from detaching. I want to know what my kids are up to but I feel like she is using that as a way to stay in touch and keep me on a string. Nothing has happened in the last week or two for me to say I want to go back to NC, so I don't know how to bring it up.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

dadof2 said:


> I am working on detaching and trying to get back to very limited contact about the kids only. Last weekend we had some family time at my house and it was nice. But I have realized that she is just sitting on the fence. I have told he before that I don't think it's a good idea for us to do things together because it may confuse the children. But then I let her come by to drop off things for the kids and she stayed for 3 hours.
> 
> Right now she thinks everything is ok in her mind, she sends me a random text every now and then about the kids, etc. Then when she is by herself who knows what she is up to. I just feel like she was scared she was going to lose me a month or so ago and started turning up the charm and I let her back in too soon. Now she knows I am still here and she has gone back to less contact.
> 
> I know I can't nice her out of this situation and I really think she doesn't know what she wants. But how do I tell her that I don't want to hear from her? Deep down I still like getting texts from her but I know it's keeping me from detaching. I want to know what my kids are up to but I feel like she is using that as a way to stay in touch and keep me on a string. Nothing has happened in the last week or two for me to say I want to go back to NC, so I don't know how to bring it up.


Just detach in your actions... get so busy that you "forget" her, not the kids... just her. Get super involved in something else. If you put extreme limitations on your responses, she'll get the message that you are limiting her contact with you. You could tell her directly, but she really isn't owed that anymore. Just cut EVERYTHING short with her. "Well, I've got to get back to ...., " with no indication that you will be talking anytime soon. Keep the kids super business like in conversations about them. In my situation it was super easy because I had our child, so I just got busy focusing on him. My H went two three weeks without talking to his son. He just never initiated. So, I just let it happen. Made it easy for me to just live. This was when we separated for his anger issues. 

Once he did start initiating I kept it SUPER brief. Just spoke basics about our child. I did not in anyway keep our child from him. Any requests on either side I facilitated and encouraged. That is just not something that you mess with. But I did not venture outside that basic contact. Not until he initiated with heavy lifting, like taking responsibility for his reactions and anger. When he did that I would thank him. "Make the wrong thing difficult and the right thing easy." No heavy lifting no contact other than kid business, Heavy lifting... gift of more time and thanks.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

dadof2 said:


> I am working on detaching and trying to get back to very limited contact about the kids only. Last weekend we had some family time at my house and it was nice. But I have realized that she is just sitting on the fence. I have told he before that I don't think it's a good idea for us to do things together because it may confuse the children. But then I let her come by to drop off things for the kids and she stayed for 3 hours.
> 
> Right now she thinks everything is ok in her mind, she sends me a random text every now and then about the kids, etc. Then when she is by herself who knows what she is up to. I just feel like she was scared she was going to lose me a month or so ago and started turning up the charm and I let her back in too soon. Now she knows I am still here and she has gone back to less contact.
> 
> I know I can't nice her out of this situation and I really think she doesn't know what she wants. But how do I tell her that I don't want to hear from her? Deep down I still like getting texts from her but I know it's keeping me from detaching. I want to know what my kids are up to but I feel like she is using that as a way to stay in touch and keep me on a string. Nothing has happened in the last week or two for me to say I want to go back to NC, so I don't know how to bring it up.


This is when you start realizing that it's true - you can be her husband but you can't be her friend after her/your his2ry. She feeds you crumbs and keeps herself on the fence in the process. You enable the fence sitting and prolong your healing. It's a viscous circle (and I spelled it that way on purpose). 

Do you have construction hobbies of any kind? Like when she comes over, go out 2 the garage and work on something? Or do you like gardening? Go out in the yard and dig up something. 

Leave her with the kids in the house. Being still around, you're not abandoning them, just her.

You don't want the resentment 2 increase while the fence sitting continues. It'll just get worse. I remember a period of time when I would ac2ally eagerly anticipate those occasions when my W was about 2 go away 2 teach her field class for a month. I was in heaven while she was gone, and dreaded her re2rn.  That's when I knew I had 2 do something 2 change our dynamic.

-ol' 2long


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

dadof2 said:


> Nothing has happened in the last week or two for me to say I want to go back to NC, so I don't know how to bring it up.


So don't bring it it up. Just start going NC again. She'll figure it out, eventually.

When she emails you about the kids, only answer what you have to. Short and one word answers. If the question is legitimate. No answer if it's just her trying to keep you on a line.

When a text comes that you don't need to send a response to, just delete right after you read it, so you won't be tempted.

When she has your kids, you really need to go out and start doing things. Meeting people. Don't just hang around the house if you don't need to be there.

And when you are out and she has the kids, don't tell here where you are, or are going. Even if she pushes for the info. Just let her wonder.

I know you're trying to detach and it's tough. I know that paying PI's isn't cheap either. But if you were to find out that she either never fully broke it of with the POSOM, or is seeing a new OM, that would go a long way in you being able to detach sooner, rather than later.

Ask and answer only questions about the kids and the D. If she asks you why you didn't respond to an earlier text, tell her that it wasn't relative to our situation, smile, then walk away. Don't give her anything you don't have to. It's not going to ruin any chance of potential R, because if she's not asking about one, or acting like she want's one, she's not interested in one.


----------



## Hicks

Why are you so afraid to tell her to make a choice between a relationship with OM and a relationship with you?

Tell her to make a choice between her affair and her marriage and to let you know what she decides.

You commit to nothing in telling her this.


----------



## convert

It is funny how she seems to text/call you more when she has the kids and you are alone.
Like she is checking up on you
this is the time i would limit contact for sure expect to tell the kids good night.
she might be afraid of you finding someone else/dating.

when my ww saw that other women were interested in me that is when she started to do the right things, like kids with toys they are not playing with and ignore it until another kids wants to play with it.


----------



## LongWalk

She's going to regret cheating. 

Her hot again, cold again change maybe due to her reconciling with OM for sex and heart to heart talks.


----------



## tom67

Hicks said:


> Why are you so afraid to tell her to make a choice between a relationship with OM and a relationship with you?
> 
> Tell her to make a choice between her affair and her marriage and to let you know what she decides.
> 
> You commit to nothing in telling her this.


:iagree::iagree:
You can do this and still be in the drivers seat.
Meet her somewhere and ask her no emotion.
If she says I don't know or I am still confused say "Good thank you I am moving on only text me, don't call, about the kids."
This should not be hard.
Limbo sucks.


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> She's going to regret cheating.
> 
> Her hot again, cold again change maybe due to her reconciling with OM for sex and heart to heart talks.


This is what I'm thinking. As long as she works with the creep the temptation will be there. They haven't ended it yet, or the tree monkey would have jumped back onto her first branch by now.


----------



## SF-FAN

dadof2 said:


> I am working on detaching and trying to get back to very limited contact about the kids only. Last weekend we had some family time at my house and it was nice. But I have realized that she is just sitting on the fence. I have told he before that I don't think it's a good idea for us to do things together because it may confuse the children. But then I let her come by to drop off things for the kids and she stayed for 3 hours.
> 
> Right now she thinks everything is ok in her mind, she sends me a random text every now and then about the kids, etc. Then when she is by herself who knows what she is up to. I just feel like she was scared she was going to lose me a month or so ago and started turning up the charm and I let her back in too soon. Now she knows I am still here and she has gone back to less contact.
> 
> I know I can't nice her out of this situation and I really think she doesn't know what she wants. But how do I tell her that I don't want to hear from her? Deep down I still like getting texts from her but I know it's keeping me from detaching. I want to know what my kids are up to but I feel like she is using that as a way to stay in touch and keep me on a string. Nothing has happened in the last week or two for me to say I want to go back to NC, so I don't know how to bring it up.


I am in the same *exact* situation as you minus the D proceedings. My WW will text most when she has the kids and I will rarely hear from her when she doesn't. She also shows affection at times and other times she's cold. I started detaching as well but then somewhat let her back in so I regressed a bit.

What I have found out though is that having kids with someone makes it almost impossible to completely detach, especially so soon after an A (or in your case the D proceedings). The communication (even if it's only about the kids) makes it difficult to completely move on. 

In my mind, soon after the A, I hated WW and was going to hate her forever and make her life as miserable as I could but honestly now that time has passed, all I want to is to get along. I'm tired of the arguing and fighting, the coldness when swapping the kids, etc. 

I've found that I'm most at peace now that I'm not holding on to the anger. Does the A still hurt? Of course but it's only made me wiser and stronger if we ever R or for the next relationship. Either way, being cold with the WW wasn't working for me. Being happy around her and showing her that I wasn't bitter and holding onto anger showed her that I'm strong which in turn has made her attitude towards me more positive as well. Being short and cold wasn't doing anything for me but everyone is different.


----------



## Chaparral

Is there a reason you haven't had the pi check to see what's going on?


----------



## dadof2

SF-FAN said:


> I am in the same *exact* situation as you minus the D proceedings. My WW will text most when she has the kids and I will rarely hear from her when she doesn't. She also shows affection at times and other times she's cold. I started detaching as well but then somewhat let her back in so I regressed a bit.
> 
> What I have found out though is that having kids with someone makes it almost impossible to completely detach, especially so soon after an A (or in your case the D proceedings). The communication (even if it's only about the kids) makes it difficult to completely move on.
> 
> In my mind, soon after the A, I hated WW and was going to hate her forever and make her life as miserable as I could but honestly now that time has passed, all I want to is to get along. I'm tired of the arguing and fighting, the coldness when swapping the kids, etc.
> 
> I've found that I'm most at peace now that I'm not holding on to the anger. Does the A still hurt? Of course but it's only made me wiser and stronger if we ever R or for the next relationship. Either way, being cold with the WW wasn't working for me. Being happy around her and showing her that I wasn't bitter and holding onto anger showed her that I'm strong which in turn has made her attitude towards me more positive as well. Being short and cold wasn't doing anything for me but everyone is different.


Yep, this is right where I am at. Sometimes I think being friendly but brief to them even gets under their skin more. We had many cold quiet child swaps at a gas station of all places. Now we do them at my house. It is still brief, but its easier on everyone.

What STBX has been doing lately is sending pics of the kids to me. Whether it is at our daughter's dance class or our son's birthday at school. She just send the pic with no message. I appreciate seeing them, but we went months without this. Its almost like she knows how to keep her hooks in me.

I have the kids this weekend and it is our son's birthday. My family is having a party for him tonight and she is doing her party Sunday with her family. It breaks my heart to think that this is how it will be in the future, but we are going to have a great party tonight without STBX there! I thought about sending her a pic of our son enjoying the party with no message, kind of like she does to me. But part of me says its not even worth that satisfaction.


----------



## highwing

dadof2 said:


> But now she is back to being accessible only when it is convenient for her. I have noticed that she texts/calls more when she has the kids and I am alone rather than when she is alone.


It sounds like she is back with the other man. You said the PI was going to put a tracker on her car. Did this ever happen? 

Please do go out for drinks with your SIL's friend! Don't try to hit on her, just enjoy some time out with someone other than your wife. Build up your self-esteem a bit.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



dadof2 said:


> Yep, this is right where I am at. Sometimes I think being friendly but brief to them even gets under their skin more. We had many cold quiet child swaps at a gas station of all places. Now we do them at my house. It is still brief, but its easier on everyone.
> 
> What STBX has been doing lately is sending pics of the kids to me. Whether it is at our daughter's dance class or our son's birthday at school. She just send the pic with no message. I appreciate seeing them, but we went months without this. Its almost like she knows how to keep her hooks in me.
> 
> I have the kids this weekend and it is our son's birthday. My family is having a party for him tonight and she is doing her party Sunday with her family. It breaks my heart to think that this is how it will be in the future, but we are going to have a great party tonight without STBX there! I thought about sending her a pic of our son enjoying the party with no message, kind of like she does to me. But part of me says its not even worth that satisfaction.


Don't do it. Detach, look for joy for yourself, not attempting (and probably unsuccessfully at that) to impose misery on her.

Do what makes you happy.


----------



## LongWalk

Good post exchange with SF Fan, dadof2. You have progressed to this point, where you are detached enough not to get worked up about what you cannot control.

In prehistory when we were in tribes, **** sapiens cheated. Quite naturally women feared their former primary mate was going to strike them. Thus, the RO has a certain gut sense to it. Your WW expects you to crack down on her. This is her almost liminal mind's read of a dangerous situation.

However, once she got you to sit and eat with her, to see her emotional vulnerability, she began to feel less danger. Was her nice period all an act? Perhaps, but it is just as likely that her feelings steer her. She is playing it by ear. If OM is chasing her, remember they can and do pass each other in the halls at work, she gets a funny feeling. Maybe she wants him again. Maybe she wants you. She may feel mixed up. But being desired is exciting to her. It may be hell for you to have her flaunt her booty in front of you, but for her it is affirmation.

Right now you are in limbo without intelligence. Your chosen course seems to be to let things continue on. If you just want to divorce, that is a good strategy. But, if on the other hand you want a shot at reconciliation, you need to disturb her freedom.

There are two ways to do it. One is to start dating. The other is to rub OM's nose in the dirt, so that your WW can see who is the man.

Beware, some WW go from one OM to the next because they start a quest for a new guy for LTR. A woman like your WW may actually fail at this because she allows too many men to approach her and while they will gladly spend some nights with her, they will not commit. In a relatively small town, she will have a reputation as the party MILF who can be gotten.


----------



## honcho

dadof2 said:


> What STBX has been doing lately is sending pics of the kids to me. Whether it is at our daughter's dance class or our son's birthday at school. She just send the pic with no message. I appreciate seeing them, but we went months without this. Its almost like she knows how to keep her hooks in me.


She knows exactly how to keep her hooks into you. She has been using the kid angle since the beginning at its worked. In her head its all win/win. You wouldnt tell her to stop sending the pictures. Everytime you get one you think about them/her and she doesnt really have to deal with discussing the situation.


----------



## Chaparral

DO2, you seem to avoid the question of finding out what she is doing. Why is that?

You seem paralyzed to me. Like you are afraid to step back, go forward. Just inert. Like damned if you do damned if you don't.

Unfortunately, that is very unattractive. She doesn't see you as fighting for her, or fighting her. Other man on the other hand is seeing her everyday at work. I am afraid you are coming across meek and weak.

I think there is a good chance she has changed her mind about coming home. Seems like she has friend zoned you.

Get back in the saddle. Put him on cheaterville. Send him the link to his new google post. Either fight or accept defeat and move on. If you don't show some b*lls why would she want you. Are you sure you want her?


----------



## LongWalk

:iagree: with Chaparral.

OM and your WW likely broke it off because the exposure put him under pressure. She was disappointed that he did not have the balls to fight for her. She gave him everything. Not only did she give him pvssy. She played fookin step mommy. And to get away with it she used the authorities to keep you at a distance. She did all of this and he probably said: "We need to lie low for a while, until the school board knows you are divorced. No public displays of affection. Lets just bang and eat pizza as much as possible."

WW didn't like this. She wanted a ring or other declarations of teenage ardour.

You were detaching. Suddenly you rose in the sex ranking while OM sank. Your WW is confused. Why aren't these guys fighting for me?

Posting OM on Cheaterville is about the only way modern man has to beat POSOM up. You cannot give him a beat down. Of course if you are a rap artist you could post a song about him on YouTube, putting him down, but the authentic rappers like to shoot, just to keep it real.

By the way, what do you know about POSOM's ex wife?


----------



## davecarter

LongWalk said:


> :iagree: with Chaparral.
> 
> OM and your WW likely broke it off because the exposure put him under pressure. She was disappointed that he did not have the balls to fight for her. She gave him everything. Not only did she give him pvssy. She played fookin step mommy. And to get away with it she used the authorities to keep you at a distance. She did all of this and he probably said: "We need to lie low for a while, until the school board knows you are divorced. No public displays of affection. Lets just bang and eat pizza as much as possible."
> 
> WW didn't like this. She wanted a ring or other declarations of teenage ardour.
> 
> You were detaching. Suddenly you rose in the sex ranking while OM sank. Your WW is confused. Why aren't these guys fighting for me?
> 
> Posting OM on Cheaterville is about the only way modern man has to beat POSOM up. You cannot give him a beat down. Of course if you are a rap artist you could post a song about him on YouTube, putting him down, but the authentic rappers like to shoot, just to keep it real.
> 
> By the way, what do you know about POSOM's ex wife?


Ray Rice wouldn't stand for this sh!t. :nono:


----------



## LongWalk

Although TAM rightly does not permit advocacy of violence, BullWinkle, our missing buddy, once said he was all for revenge, including punching out OM. 

If you should see this assistant principal I hope lock eyes with him and make him feel that he should walk to the other side of the road. 

Bashful Bull whopped OM. Sadly his WW tried to save the OM, who was her drug supplier.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Despite your words, your actions say that you are trying to nice her back. Personally I think you need a girlfriend. Or at least get laid.


----------



## davecarter

Chaparral said:


> DO2, you seem to avoid the question of finding out what she is doing. Why is that?
> 
> You seem paralyzed to me. Like you are afraid to step back, go forward. Just inert. Like damned if you do damned if you don't.
> 
> Unfortunately, that is very unattractive. She doesn't see you as fighting for her, or fighting her. Other man on the other hand is seeing her everyday at work. I am afraid you are coming across meek and weak.
> 
> I think there is a good chance she has changed her mind about coming home. Seems like she has friend zoned you.
> 
> Get back in the saddle. Put him on cheaterville. Send him the link to his new google post. Either fight or accept defeat and move on. If you don't show some b*lls why would she want you. Are you sure you want her?


A woman who Friend-Zones you? Tough to get through.
A wife who has an OM _and _also Friend-Zones you? Game Over.


----------



## tom67

Get the cheaterville link up already.:lol:


----------



## jim123

OP,

Keep in mind she knew what you would do. Even with the RO you did it. You are obsessed with her. She banged another man all summer and it does not bother you. She is hot so you want her back.

She has no respect for you and should not because you do not respect yourself.

Work on you and get better. Get past these issues. Start moving on.


----------



## bigfoot

D2, Now it is time for you to make the transition. 

1. There is to be absolutely no more "family time" with your STBX! You tell her that. Quote, "You broke up the family, so there is no more family time. We do not eat together, we do not sit around the house, no hanging out, nothing." "When you drop the kids off, do not come in, do not sit, do not use the bathroom, nothing." You don't have to say it mean, in fact, say it very nice. This will allow her to pull away from you, because you can't do it. 

2. Every time you look at her in hot shorts, picture the other man. Remember, if you touch her, you touch him. If you lust for her, you lust for him. I'm gonna let you in on secret, your wife is not as hot as you think. No one is. Sure, you find her attractive, but in fact, several men do not because she is not that hot. Get over that idealized version.

3. Stop thinking of her as a sexual partner. Start looking at other women. Realize that as long as she is in your life, you will be miserable. She is a splinter in your soul. She is poison. You must always think of something negative or nasty when you think of her. Its an odd thing, but if you associate her with negatives, you will change how you feel about her. You CAN help that. Everytime you think of her, or see her, focus on the negative, the nasty, the repulsive.


----------



## clipclop2

That's just bizarre... You lust for him? I don't think so.


----------



## LongWalk

Lust for whom?


----------



## davecarter

Yeah I think I know what bigfoot means....if Do2 gets that sexual-urge when he sees his wife, has sexy images of her, all dressed up...then he ought to picture the OM too, cos that's the only man who's been banging her looking like that.


----------



## bigfoot

Oh dear lord, its not bizarre at all. I was trying to give him some negative visuals and associations to make. I was clearly not suggesting that he actually was lusting for OM. You know, when they say if you have unprotected sex with someone then you sleep with everyone they slept with, unprotected? I was using that as a basis for my point.


----------



## highwing

Makes sense to me bigfoot.


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

I guess the last few posters are trying to get you riled up.

You are a good guy. Maybe it is not your style to be a hard azz. Still they have a point. If you define the boundaries clearly, even in your own head, you will put an end to this vacillation on your WW's part.

Remember your best move in all of this was exposing him to the school board.

Confronting in the bar was also okay.

Is she trying to whittle away your NC?


----------



## dadof2

I have been NC with her for about a week now. She sensed me pulling away and began ramping up the texts/pictures at random times. Last weekend was our son's birthday and my family had a party for him on Friday night. We had a lot of fun, and for those couple of hours I didn't even think about our situation. Just seeing my kids having fun and opening presents then putting them together with him afterwards was a very rewarding time.

We swapped the kids on Sunday so she could do a party for him with her family. She sent me pics from their party and thanked me for allowing her to see him for his birthday with it being my weekend. I told her no problem, that this wasn't about us, it was about our son being able to enjoy his birthday.

Later that night, she called. I almost didn't answer, but for some reason I did. She was on the other end crying. She said how terrible she feels about the whole situation and that she doesn't deserve another chance. She said the whole birthday situation and our daughter being in dance class now has opened her eyes to what divorced life would be like. She said she wants to be with me and that she wants our family to be together.

I told her that I appreciated her telling me that, but I have heard it all before. She said she knows that and she knows it will be a hard road but she realizes what she has to lose and wants to make things work. She asked if I would consider going back to MC with her, and I said I really don't see the point. I said I am trying to move on with my life and that I have friends that are trying to set me up with women and that part of me wants to see what else is out there. She started sobbing when I told her that.

We kind of left it open ended, and she has been nice to me since then, a few nice texts here and there. I had IC yesterday and talked to my therapist about it. She said that she can help me all she can, but at the end of the day its only me that can decide if I want to try R or if I have had enough already. It seems like I change my mind every hour, lol. I am reading other threads about how hard R is, so I am trying to see myself in that situation. Honestly, I think about our kids, 4 and 2, and they are the main reason I am even considering R. If we didn't have them I think we would be well on our way to D.


----------



## farsidejunky

Go to one MC appointment. 

Be cordial. Tell her to open up. Let her get it all out in front of an audience.

Then ask to see her phone.


----------



## happyman64

A few of us saw that coming Dof2.

I am glad you got that call.

And while I know you are feigning indifference I do hope you recognize that at least your wife is hurting.

And she realizes that it was her bad decisions that have caused this damage.

I feel sad for you about the situation, but glad that she put her big girl panties on, took the chip off her shoulder an cried to you.

The choice is yours......

And by the way while it might be fun seeing what else/whomelse is out there.

Starting a new relationship is just as much work as Reconciling your marriage.

One has just less baggage.

And I am glad that you told her you have options. She needs to hear it, acknowledge it and decide to fight for you.

Honestly, I hope she fights for you. I think you are worth it.

*Is she worth it? Why not ask her......*

The key to any good decision regarding your marriage is communication. With each other.

HM


----------



## Blossom Leigh

dadof2 said:


> I have been NC with her for about a week now. She sensed me pulling away and began ramping up the texts/pictures at random times. Last weekend was our son's birthday and my family had a party for him on Friday night. We had a lot of fun, and for those couple of hours I didn't even think about our situation. Just seeing my kids having fun and opening presents then putting them together with him afterwards was a very rewarding time.
> 
> We swapped the kids on Sunday so she could do a party for him with her family. She sent me pics from their party and thanked me for allowing her to see him for his birthday with it being my weekend. I told her no problem, that this wasn't about us, it was about our son being able to enjoy his birthday.
> 
> Later that night, she called. I almost didn't answer, but for some reason I did. She was on the other end crying. She said how terrible she feels about the whole situation and that she doesn't deserve another chance. She said the whole birthday situation and our daughter being in dance class now has opened her eyes to what divorced life would be like. She said she wants to be with me and that she wants our family to be together.
> 
> I told her that I appreciated her telling me that, but I have heard it all before. She said she knows that and she knows it will be a hard road but she realizes what she has to lose and wants to make things work. She asked if I would consider going back to MC with her, and I said I really don't see the point. I said I am trying to move on with my life and that I have friends that are trying to set me up with women and that part of me wants to see what else is out there. She started sobbing when I told her that.
> 
> We kind of left it open ended, and she has been nice to me since then, a few nice texts here and there. I had IC yesterday and talked to my therapist about it. She said that she can help me all she can, but at the end of the day its only me that can decide if I want to try R or if I have had enough already. It seems like I change my mind every hour, lol. I am reading other threads about how hard R is, so I am trying to see myself in that situation. Honestly, I think about our kids, 4 and 2, and they are the main reason I am even considering R. If we didn't have them I think we would be well on our way to D.


I would like to chime in on your post in a few... I have been on ALL sides of your situation and would love to share parts of my experience and those of my biological parents and step parents. You will get a lot of feedback on a topic like this and in the end only you can decide. be back in a few...


----------



## naiveonedave

HM - I think that is sage advice. 

At this point, I would do whatever you can to not feed the stbxw anything that would lead her to believe you are all in for R, until/unless you are all in. I think she may pick up on your feelings for your kids as a reason she deserves that chance.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



happyman64 said:


> Honestly, I hope she fights for you. I think you are worth it.
> 
> *Is she worth it? Why not ask her......*


HM:

This is really good. Emotional judo as MEM likes to say.

D02:

This would open the necessary discussion.


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> If we didn't have them I think we would be well on our way to D.


dad, you can't R just for that reason. PLEASE trust me that this feeling you have, this misty hopefulness you feel...won't last. Once she knows she has you back, SHE WILL STOP TRYING.

That is why you must stay apart. Tell her that you will consider R for the next year. If she really seriously loves you and wants you - and is not just wanting her cushy life with you (i.e. being selfish) - she will prove it over the next year. On her own dime. Without seeing ANY other men (which will result in immediate filing for divorce).

Tell her you are willing to give her a year to fix this, from separate homes. To go to IC and MC and be 100% transparent with you and SHOW you how she has changed her outlook so that she will not be tempted again. That's all you're willing to give her. At the end of next summer, assuming she's done the work above, you'll make your decision.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

She has to BECOME worth your time. It is in THIS environment that feelings are rekindled.

THEN the choice to reconcile because of the kids makes sense.

I love Turnera's offering limited timeframe. I used the same tactic in my situation and it is effective. 

Strategic separation is as well, like she recommends, which I also used. 

more on my story later.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

And correction note on the "baggage"

In a reconciliation the baggage is "known"

In a new relationship it is "unknown"

fyi


----------



## Hicks

I think you are looking at things all wrong.

You are trying to decide if it's "worth it" to "start" the recovery process. 

What you should be doing is telling her that the door is open, and what the ticket to admission is (proof, written no contact, new job, parental apology, whatever). And for her to take whatever steps she needs to take in order to make things right. 

You make a decision every day based on her actions. Like every other married person. 

You can't decide anything if you are not experiencing what the future would be like. YOu don't commit to anything by telling her the door is open and what she needs to do.


----------



## just got it 55

Dad you must ask/tell her to publicly tell the truth about the RO and the allegations of abuse.

This should be the first condition of R

55


----------



## turnera

Hell yeah!

While we're at it...you must go to your folks AND my folks, in my presence, to apologize for what you did.

It's a great bullshyte barometer, whether they agree or not.


----------



## Hicks

Bye the way, based on what you wrote about what she said, you have alot to build on.


----------



## LongWalk

Turnera,

Living apart for a year? Sounds like a troublesome situation. We haven't seen too of those situations end in R.

EmptyShellDad is the closest.

Dadof2,

Keep calm and non-committal. Go to MC. Listen to what she has to say. 

Say that you want a time line of the affair. If she agrees after MC she sits and writes it out.

1) When did she start flirting with POSOM?
2) When did she decided to cheat?
3) Where did they first take it physical?
4) When did she start babysitting his kids?
5) When did OM start to get serious? In what way?
Why did she break it off?

There might be a list of questions about affair somewhere on TAM that you can put to her.

Once she hands this over, you need her password to Facebook, email and phone and you go through them to reconcile her account with the objective records.

If she refuses to be open, then reconciliation is not worth it IMO.

Tell her that you realize that the facts that come to light will be hurtful and embarrassing, but you will be able to cope with the truth while lies are impossible. Reconciliation based on lies will fail. Reconciliation based on stonewalling is likewise not promising.

Tell your WW that you still love her and are attracted to her, but if she doesn't recover her integrity, those feelings will not survive.

In short she needs to spill her guts no matter how hard that is. If you think she is being straight, tell her that after she comes clean, and it might take you several hours to read it all, your plan is to take her home and sleep in the same bed. However, if you discover she is trying to minimize, gaslight and cover up, it's over.

Her plan was to eliminate you as husband. That is even more hurtful than whatever wild monkey sex they had.

Though we only see her through what you write, your WW seems confused. She may love you but that has to do with you being strong. You will have to remain that way to keep her desiring you.

I would keep the divorce rolling forward and see what effort she makes. You still have to get over the hump of hysterical bonding. If you take her back in a few months time you may feel cheated.

Let's hope she is better at saving records than Lois Lerner.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Ok... food for thought...

My biological parents divorced when I was 18 months old... by the time I was 2 my mother was remarried. 

One dynamic a divorced couple cannot control is the new spouse of former spouse. Both of my biological parents went on to marry abusers. My mother was told by her mother, sister and pastor at the time to divorce my step father, but she didn't. She instead chose to "force a perfect picture" by covering up decades of abuse and force me to accept it as normal by my step father and tried to cut my biological father out of my life, succeeded by the time I was 12 (until I could drive at 15 - wink wink). thus MY issues with relationships that I still work on to this day and I am 45.

By the time my biological father remarried for the third time, he married a NON abuser and she has become a VERY strong advocate of mine and I now call her Mom. 

One dynamic avoided by reconciling with a REPENTANT WS is the risk of abusive step parents (all forms, verbal emotional physical sexual etc) to your children. That is if your WS is not an abuser (something that must be considered).

Are there successful coparenting and great step parents out there you betcha... there is just an inherent risk that lurks. My experience may be a far outlier. Not sure.

There wasn't a day that went by that I didn't want my biological parents back together. The odds were just stacked against them early on.


----------



## bandit.45

Could be she is finally coming out of the fog, although as long as she still works with the OM I don't see how she can maintain it. 

I think Turnera gave you a great idea for testing her. You shod float that idea by your WW, but it has to come with the requirement that a contact with the OM be severed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## karole

If you follow LW's advice, have her get an STD test before you bring her home to your bed.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

oh and the abuse by my step father and mother both was severe... most who know the stories wonder how I didn't end up on the streets strung out on drugs or prostituting myself. 

Blossom Leigh is a survivor in every sense of the word.


----------



## badmemory

Dad,

So I get that you're still open to R. If you are, as I see it, you have options on how to approach it.

1 - You can stay separated for a few weeks or months, continue limited contact and see if she completely turns around on her own; see if she continues to "fight" for her marriage, before even considering it.

Or you can skip that step and go straight to the next option:

2 - You can make the decision to start MC, tell her everything you expect her to do; and if she agrees, attempt R living under the same roof.

Either path she understands this is a trial attempt. 

My honest opinion is, that you if you go through step one first; giving her more time to understand what it's like to lose her husband for cheating;you'll feel better about her remorse being genuine. But, you'll have to allow for the chance that she won't hang in there. And if she doesn't, just be able to accept it and move on with your life.


----------



## LongWalk

He can use a condom until she gets tested.

Drive OM out of the school. WW has to stay there and face the shame of her colleagues all knowing. That will be daily reminder. She wants to tell her best FF that her husband is taking her back. She needs to be grateful and adoring for this to be of any worth.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

My limited time frame and strategic separation went like this with my H... I put him out when his behavior was the worst, it was NC for a while (almost a month) until he started murmuring about making contact. Once he did and he found out I was singing the same tune of we are done unless you choose better behavior through professional help, he would understand/accept and then go work on himself. Eventually we would spend just a little time together, when he felt safer to me. We would approach and retreat as needed. The safer I felt the longer the time spent with him. Until eventually he just stayed and I was ok with it. It was a very natural organic progression. I was after consistent safe behavior. He was very concerned about not pushing me OR our son. But let me tell ya... when our son realized he was home to stay for good he was estatic! (he was gone a little over two months total) My son went from being very scared of his Dad, and actively trying to protect me from his Dad to now calling him sweet and funny because my husband has committed 1000% to addressing his anger issues that came hard and heavy after the affair he had in 2012.

OH!!! and I told him at the beginning of 2014 that we either fix it this year or we don't... that I was not going past 2014 in the severely dysfunctional relationship we had... so I had this overall time frame and then the separate smaller separation that happened inside of that larger time. I had warned him that the requirement for his professional anger management was to begin by the 1st month of 2014 and if he didn't then he would be choosing separation and then if he STILL continued to refuse that work, he would be choosing to risk divorce with me. So I was explicit on the work needed, well defined consequences and a one shot deal for this year... period.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



just got it 55 said:


> Dad you must ask/tell her to publicly tell the truth about the RO and the allegations of abuse.
> 
> This should be the first condition of R
> 
> 55


This was my first thought. I'm damned glad someone said it.


----------



## dadof2

Blossom Leigh said:


> Ok... food for thought...
> 
> My biological parents divorced when I was 18 months old... by the time I was 2 my mother was remarried.
> 
> One dynamic a divorced couple cannot control is the new spouse of former spouse. Both of my biological parents went on to marry abusers. My mother was told by her mother, sister and pastor at the time to divorce my step father, but she didn't. She instead chose to "force a perfect picture" by covering up decades of abuse and force me to accept it as normal by my step father and tried to cut my biological father out of my life, succeeded by the time I was 12 (until I could drive at 15 - wink wink). thus MY issues with relationships that I still work on to this day and I am 45.
> 
> By the time my biological father remarried for the third time, he married a NON abuser and she has become a VERY strong advocate of mine and I now call her Mom.
> 
> *One dynamic avoided by reconciling with a REPENTANT WS is the risk of abusive step parents (all forms, verbal emotional physical sexual etc) to your children. That is if your WS is not an abuser (something that must be considered).*
> 
> Are there successful coparenting and great step parents out there you betcha... there is just an inherent risk that lurks. My experience may be a far outlier. Not sure.
> 
> There wasn't a day that went by that I didn't want my biological parents back together. The odds were just stacked against them early on.


This is one thing that is HUGE in my mind. I am afraid that STBX will never have a stable, loving household after we divorce. I understand that is not a reason to keep trying for R, but I can't help but think of our kids growing up seeing a revolving door of men in their mother's life.


----------



## dadof2

badmemory said:


> Dad,
> 
> So I get that you're still open to R. If you are, as I see it, you have options on how to approach it.
> 
> 1 - You can stay separated for a few weeks or months, continue limited contact and see if she completely turns around on her own; see if she continues to "fight" for her marriage, before even considering it.
> 
> Or you can skip that step and go straight to the next option:
> 
> 2 - You can make the decision to start MC, tell her everything you expect her to do; and if she agrees, attempt R living under the same roof.
> 
> Either path she understands this is a trial attempt.
> 
> My honest opinion is, that you if you go through step one first; giving her more time to understand what it's like to lose her husband for cheating;you'll feel better about her remorse being genuine. But, you'll have to allow for the chance that she won't hang in there. And if she doesn't, just be able to accept it and move on with your life.


I have thought about that if things progress towards R. When to move back in, etc. I think option 1 is a safe bet. I would be afraid to move her back in with the children being home. If it didn't work after a few months and we separated again, it would really mess them up mentally. I think having us living together is a great way for her to be accountable, but the dangers to the children if we separate are greater than the benefit of accountability to me right now.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

dadof2 said:


> This is one thing that is HUGE in my mind. I am afraid that STBX will never have a stable, loving household after we divorce. I understand that is not a reason to keep trying for R, but I can't help but think of our kids growing up seeing a revolving door of men in their mother's life.


IT is a very valid concern.

It is one reason regardless of your decision to really stay engaged in their lives as a sure solid place of refuge.

My Aunt was mine and now my biological Dad and his wife. 

I no longer have relationship with my mother or step father and it affected my relationship with my brother. We are also only two years apart in age.


----------



## LongWalk

That is why you need to look at her emails, messaging, etc, to gage what sort of mindset she had. Can she straighten herself out?

In MC you can ask her what sort of reputation she now has. How does she see herself? 

Why do you think she is likely to be unable to settle on one guy?


----------



## bfree

You do realize that you can't even begin to consider R until she's no longer in ANY contact with the OM. In point of fact this discussion is moot until that has happened.


----------



## turnera

LongWalk said:


> Turnera,
> 
> Living apart for a year? Sounds like a troublesome situation. We haven't seen too of those situations end in R.


LW, you and I both know it won't last that long, one way or the other. What's important is that she sees that he CAN go a year without giving in to her, and that she sees what life without him is like for longer than this. And whether she is willing to agree to it or not is very telling, IMO. Does she REALLY want to be married because she loves him? Or does she just want back what she had (plug in any random male)? If she just wants what she had, she will not agree to it or, if she does agree, she'll be done in a month. OTOH, if she's still working to prove herself to him by the time Thanksgiving rolls around - and hasn't sought out any other men, he's free to say 'you know, I think this just might work, let's give it a shot.'


----------



## turnera

bandit.45 said:


> Could be she is finally coming out of the fog, although as long as she still works with the OM I don't see how she can maintain it.
> 
> I think Turnera gave you a great idea for testing her. You shod float that idea by your WW, but it has to come with the requirement that a contact with the OM be severed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh yeah, I forgot about that. She would have to transfer.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Blossom Leigh said:


> IT is a very valid concern.
> 
> It is one reason regardless of your decision to really stay engaged in their lives as a sure solid place of refuge.
> 
> My Aunt was mine and now my biological Dad and his wife.
> 
> I no longer have relationship with my mother or step father and it affected my relationship with my brother. We are also only two years apart in age.


Therefore... she must BECOME that stable person anyway. For me... I committed, as long as my husband was willing, to create the necessary environment in which he could become the man of integrity and stability he needed to be for his son and me. 

I had a very specific strategy outside of what I have even listed here and KNEW I had learned the skill set to see it through. So I had confidence, which helped me stand strong through the roughest times. My H is 6'3" and I'm only 5"3", with PTSD from past abuse, so overcoming our issues took intensive work on my part as well since his behavior was EXTREMELY intimidating. I had to BE the stabilizing force while he learned to match it. My work had to fire on all cylinders, so I had to have a very clearly defined vision. Your situation may or may not be as complex as mine was, but a well defined vision, with appropriate strategies to use within that framework is really important.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

dadof2 said:


> I have thought about that if things progress towards R. When to move back in, etc. I think option 1 is a safe bet. I would be afraid to move her back in with the children being home. If it didn't work after a few months and we separated again, it would really mess them up mentally. I think having us living together is a great way for her to be accountable, but the dangers to the children if we separate are greater than the benefit of accountability to me right now.



My H and I were concerned with this too.. so when we felt the surest about our progress is when we then stayed under the same roof.


----------



## treyvion

dadof2 said:


> This is one thing that is HUGE in my mind. I am afraid that STBX will never have a stable, loving household after we divorce. I understand that is not a reason to keep trying for R, but I can't help but think of our kids growing up seeing a revolving door of men in their mother's life.


You shouldn't say "never". What if she blew right past you to an OM, forgot you ever existed, and for some odd reasons shift gears so that she could have a good life. Either says you guys didn't work out OR simply redirects blame upon you while she lives good with the new man. This is something that happens.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Yes it does

very complex issue for sure


----------



## warlock07

Blossom Leigh said:


> My limited time frame and strategic separation went like this with my H... I put him out when his behavior was the worst, it was NC for a while (almost a month) until he started murmuring about making contact. Once he did and he found out I was singing the same tune of we are done unless you choose better behavior through professional help, he would understand/accept and then go work on himself. Eventually we would spend just a little time together, when he felt safer to me. We would approach and retreat as needed. The safer I felt the longer the time spent with him. Until eventually he just stayed and I was ok with it. It was a very natural organic progression. I was after consistent safe behavior. He was very concerned about not pushing me OR our son. But let me tell ya... when our son realized he was home to stay for good he was estatic! (he was gone a little over two months total) My son went from being very scared of his Dad, and actively trying to protect me from his Dad to now calling him sweet and funny because my husband has committed 1000% to addressing his anger issues that came hard and heavy after the affair he had in 2012.
> 
> OH!!! and I told him at the beginning of 2014 that we either fix it this year or we don't... that I was not going past 2014 in the severely dysfunctional relationship we had... so I had this overall time frame and then the separate smaller separation that happened inside of that larger time. I had warned him that the requirement for his professional anger management was to begin by the 1st month of 2014 and if he didn't then he would be choosing separation and then if he STILL continued to refuse that work, he would be choosing to risk divorce with me. So I was explicit on the work needed, well defined consequences and a one shot deal for this year... period.


BL, forgive me if I am wrong but were you the WS or BS ? 

I thought you said you cheated on your ex and his anger for your affair proved that he did not love you enough ?

or was that a previous relationship ?


----------



## warlock07

dadof2, don't make the same mistake of dreaming of R once again. Go through with the divorce. 


Time will give you answers. There are a lot of things to do to even start to think about the word R. With the abuse allegations and how clinical she was about protecting the OM, you don't want her commitment to R in moment of vulnerability to be the foundation of rebuilding your marriage(Ok, that sounds contrived).


----------



## Chaparral

I hope you do try and reconcile. You must consider the advice you have been given. We have seen a lot of couples fail to reconcile because the wayward spouse could not let go of their AP.

That brings up my question. Where has she been the last few weeks? Why no contact when you have the kids. (or vice versa, I cant remember which). I think her behavior very odd.

I can see her worked up after a birthday weekend but where has she been? It seems like she has been fine to be alone quite a bit.

You need to do more than just go to mc.

I ask again, why haven't you had the PI look into her activities? At this point I have to guess you are avoiding something this simple because you do not want to take the risk of finding out she is with her ap or another man.

Reconciliation is heavy lifting on both your parts. You have to satisfy yourself she is being faithful by different detective means for some time. As you start to trust you back off.

If she is transparent that helps. But never trust a wayward for quite a while. Just the same as you cant trust any other addict.

For the umpteenth time, grab your [email protected] and put the Posom on cheaterville.com and see how all the sides divide up. The fallout is what will tell you the most about what is going on. If she has a problem with it, her family is not her utmost consideration. She hasn't been at her job that long so that should not be a paramount consideration if she loves you.


----------



## BWBill

_She said the whole birthday situation and our daughter being in dance class now has opened her eyes to what divorced life would be like._

In other words, you're better than no husband at all.

It seems to me that she's not that into you, she's just looking for the best situation for herself. It was you for a while, then it was the OM, now it's you again, and who knows who it will be in the future.

You and your kids will be better off only if you have a spouse who you care about and who actually cares about you.


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



LongWalk said:


> Lust for whom?


Responding to Bigfoot's previous post. Very unusual suggestion indeed.


----------



## LongWalk

Herein is the paradox. The less Dadof2 wants her back, the more she may fall back in love with him. Is this love phoney? Maybe, maybe not. She does not want divorce. But does she desire Dadof2?


----------



## NotLikeYou

bfree said:


> You do realize that you can't even begin to consider R until she's no longer in ANY contact with the OM. In point of fact this discussion is moot until that has happened.


No, sadly, our hero absolutely, positively does not realize this in any way, shape, or form.

The extent of his awareness is "OMG, she made a bunch of noises to me over the phone, and it sounds like she wants me back, so here's what needs to happen before I move back in and........"

All her lies, a restraining order filed against him falsely, the emotional abuse and neglect, making him look like a fool in front of his friends and family for months, having to have his FATHER go talk to the school board?

All that time spent in bed with the other man?

That's all out the window, because SHE WANTS HIM BACK!

Do2, I know this conversation feels like huge progress to you, and that's a real shame, because all it has actually done is put you right back in limbo again.

You'll get out of that horrible place eventually, but I guess it will be later, rather than sooner.


----------



## happyman64

BWBill said:


> _She said the whole birthday situation and our daughter being in dance class now has opened her eyes to what divorced life would be like._
> 
> In other words, you're better than no husband at all.
> 
> It seems to me that she's not that into you, she's just looking for the best situation for herself. It was you for a while, then it was the OM, now it's you again, and who knows who it will be in the future.
> 
> You and your kids will be better off only if you have a spouse who you care about and who actually cares about you.



I do not agree with this. When a WS is caught up in the affair as intense as this one they lose common sense, they lose reason. They cannot ever remember being in love with their spouse.

They do hurtful acts to erase the BS.

In time some do come back. Their reasoning returns. Their common sense starts sending them signals that they have made very bad decisions. 

In time when their vision returns they begin to notice the situation they are now in. The see the damage as a result of their bad decisions.

They begin to recollect their wayward behavior and start to feel guilt.

This is just beginning to happen. Hence the texts and pictures when she has the kids.

Dof2's wife is not one the great communicators. She does not know how to say "sorry" or that she was wrong. Very wrong.

That is why Dof2 needs to step up to the plate and begin communication which I feel he has.

It does not mean he will R. It means that he has given his wife the greenlight to communicate. MC would be a help here.

To help them communicate honestly, openly and not slinging the hurt at each other.



LongWalk said:


> Herein is the paradox. The less Dadof2 wants her back, the more she may fall back in love with him. Is this love phoney? Maybe, maybe not. She does not want divorce. But does she desire Dadof2?


And that will take time to determine. Her desire will need to build. He needs to see it exist if they ever want to be desirable to each other.

Again, MC will be helpful here. Family time together needs to lead to alone time together.

And Dof2, if your wife is desirable to you still then you need to eventually "take" her.

It will both show each of you that you desire each other and want to need each other in a sexual way.

You both need this. In time.

HM


----------



## Blossom Leigh

warlock07 said:


> BL, forgive me if I am wrong but were you the WS or BS ?
> 
> I thought you said you cheated on your ex and his anger for your affair proved that he did not love you enough ?
> 
> or was that a serious relationship ?



1st marriage 17 years - WS

2nd marriage 7yrs - BS

My current husbands anger issues make my ex hero fire fighter mans man look like pippi long stockings sucking his thumb. Anger in both relationships, but played out VERY differently. I keep picking hotheads to some degree. Guess what I grew up with... 


What I said was how I felt during that time. I was warning someone about playing too hard of a [email protected] with a WS if that WS believes they weren't wanted already before the affair because it could confirm that feeling for them and drive them away further. My words were that it confirmed my suspicion that he didnt want me as was even felt beforehand. Its the way it felt in that moment.


----------



## thatbpguy

dadof2 said:


> This is one thing that is HUGE in my mind. I am afraid that STBX will never have a stable, loving household after we divorce. I understand that is not a reason to keep trying for R, but I can't help but think of our kids growing up seeing a revolving door of men in their mother's life.


So? That's not the reason to R. That's an excuse.

Tunera was right about things being different now, but as time goes along things will probably fall back to the old ways. 

The more things change, the more they stay the same.


----------



## GusPolinski

farsidejunky said:


> Go to one MC appointment.
> 
> Be cordial. Tell her to open up. Let her get it all out in front of an audience.
> 
> Then ask to see her phone.


:iagree:


----------



## tom67

Do the cheaterville link do not tell stbxw.
If you are not a computer savant PM Gus or Weightlifter when they have time they will be more than willing to help plus you can trust them.
The reason I want you to do it is this can be the test to see where her loyalties are.

Plus like Chap said you show him and her you demand respect.
Just a mini ramble.:scratchhead:


----------



## OldWolf57

She's just to dark when he have the kids.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

You said it your self, if it weren't for the kids, you'd D.

If you R because of your kids... Well, this marriage will just end later vs. sooner. You're worried about about your WS/stbxw not having a stable home, or life if you D - Because of the kids.

From what you've written, it's seems to me that she finally realized how a D was going effect... your kids.

It's a noble goal, no doubt. But what happens in 2, 6, or 8 years, if/when the wind is out of those sails?...

If she decides that she want's to R, the main reason better be because she wants to stay with YOU. If you decide that you want to R, the main reason better be because you want to stay with HER.

Even then, the odds are stacked against you. With out the true want of being with on another, I feel that the R will be on borrowed time.

I say, stay the course towards D(for now). Entertain the notion of R, but don't lower your draw bridge until you know where her true allegiance lies(you really ought to think about using that PI one last time...)

I have to wonder what her reaction would be if you started telling her that the conditions of an R are TOTAL transparency and she either get's the OM canned at school, or she finds a different school to teach at?...

You'll find out quick if she's really wanting to stay married to you.


----------



## LongWalk

I agree with HappyMan that the wayward spouse can go through the insanity of being infatuated with another person. This is a vey human reaction; it happens. TAM is always writing about the "fog". Teenagers experience this with amazing intensity. Youth is ready to die because the loved one doesn't notice them is a universal tale. We forget about this period of our lives but it can occur again in adults.

Is it acceptable to give into to these feelings and destroy a family? At one time it was not. There was fault in divorce and adultery was one of them. Now when a beautiful woman in Hollywood cheats with a new guy some may sigh and say, "Ah, but she found an even richer and more handsome man to adore her."

And the celebrity men find younger and more alluring women to replace their wives. And the public does not boycott their movies. Tom Cruise is movie star no matter how many times he wears out women with his nutty religion.

The first time POSOM got into Dadof2's wife's panties was probably not only after school, it was in the school, or in the school parking lot. That was forbidden and exciting. Dadof2 will have a hard time matching that, not because he sucks in bed, but because he is not forbidden. Maybe, though, WW will go nuts, riding him. We have no idea what sort of chemistry they had or could have. Dadof2 will have to see what works for him/them.

HardtoDetach, a poster who disappeared was sexually better than OM. His wife was in love with OM and planned to leave him. Eventually, he got her to cheat on OM with him and that planted the seeds of destruction in the affair. Did Dadof2 cancel the divorce and accept her back? We don't know it was a hard choice for him to make. His WW was desperate to reconcile.

RoadScholar was another example. His WW withheld sex from him 6 months in false R. She changed her tune when he got ready to dump her. Was their sex life better for her than the affair sex. He suspected not at times. But she, too, was crying and begging him not to leave. It is also some kind of love. Maybe not perfect but not something to be thrown away lightly.

Dadof2 needs to be strong so that his cards win all the tricks they can. That will give him the best view and the best choice.

Getting OM to slink away is one trump card. Getting WW to fess up to all the parents that the RO was very wrong is another. Getting to read her emails from the affair is another. Getting her to act crazy in bed is another. Do people play every card perfectly when their spouse has an affair. Probably a minority.


----------



## Hicks

dadof2 said:


> This is one thing that is HUGE in my mind. I am afraid that STBX will never have a stable, loving household after we divorce. I understand that is not a reason to keep trying for R, but I can't help but think of our kids growing up seeing a revolving door of men in their mother's life.


OF COURSE this is a valid reason to reconcile. Giving your children what they need is one of the main purposes of a marriage.

You are rationalizing to avoid setting yourself up to get hurt.


----------



## Hicks

dadof2 said:


> I have thought about that if things progress towards R. When to move back in, etc. I think option 1 is a safe bet. I would be afraid to move her back in with the children being home. If it didn't work after a few months and we separated again, it would really mess them up mentally. I think having us living together is a great way for her to be accountable, but the dangers to the children if we separate are greater than the benefit of accountability to me right now.


#1 is NOT a SAFE BET.

You are rationalizing again. Your children's best interest is Mom and Dad together. In order for Mom and Dad to be together, Mom and Dad need to start being together. You cannot reconcile from afar.

Your wife will get tired of trying while you keep slamming the door in her face (all the while thinking you can decide at any time). Some guy will start sniffing around, and BOOM... she will be out of the picture again just like that.

You have all the power now to set the terms and conditions you need to even begin to decide if reconcililng is for you. Yet your rationalize away everything. This is probably becuase you are afraid of getting hurt if you let her back in emotionally. What you should be doing is giving her a chance to prove herself (allowing her to assume the door is open) while protecting yourself at the same time. As days, weeks, months, years go by, your inner emotions will either return you to the marriage or they won't.


----------



## turnera

BWBill said:


> _She said the whole birthday situation and our daughter being in dance class now has opened her eyes to what divorced life would be like._
> 
> In other words, you're better than no husband at all.


Exactly my thoughts and my point. ALL ABOUT HER.


----------



## turnera

happyman64 said:


> I do not agree with this. When a WS is caught up in the affair as intense as this one they lose common sense, they lose reason. They cannot ever remember being in love with their spouse.
> 
> They do hurtful acts to erase the BS.
> 
> In time some do come back. Their reasoning returns. Their common sense starts sending them signals that they have made very bad decisions.
> 
> In time when their vision returns they begin to notice the situation they are now in. The see the damage as a result of their bad decisions.
> 
> They begin to recollect their wayward behavior and start to feel guilt.
> 
> This is just beginning to happen. Hence the texts and pictures when she has the kids.
> 
> Dof2's wife is not one the great communicators. She does not know how to say "sorry" or that she was wrong. Very wrong.


Well, what I HAVEN'T seen in any of her texts is 'you're a great guy and probably the best man on the planet.' Nor has she said 'I'll do all I can to make this up to you.' 

In other words, she has no admiration for him, only for the family unit. And she still doesn't see that this is all on her and she will be - SHOULD be - in a subservient position for a long time to come. The way she has worded things is that she wants to have her old life back. Period.


----------



## LongWalk

I think Dadof2's wife may fall in love with him again, but he has to be in charge. Period.

She has be on probation and feel it.

Drive OM from the school. Once you do that there is every chance that she will go to work proud that her husband drove off her rival. If she leaves the school it will be running away. She has run away the whole time. She has to stop and take a stand.

Dadof2,

If you have sex with your WW, make certain that you bang her brains out. Say whatever stuff comes into your head. Once it's done slap her on the butt and tell her to fetch you a beer. Alternatively, get up and go and do something. Don't give her 100% emotional affirmation just because you had sex. She has to chase you. You cannot be openly grateful. This may sound manipulative but your WW needs strong messages.

Remember that she fell for someone in authority. He was telling all the women in the group get sweaty and expose their bodies at his command. Your wife got off on being the one he chose. Maybe the others were dumpy and she didn't have much competition, but still.


----------



## turnera

> Originally Posted by farsidejunky
> _Go to one MC appointment.
> 
> Be cordial. Tell her to open up. Let her get it all out in front of an audience.
> 
> Then ask to see her phone._


dad, let's talk about this. What do you think about this option? It's a valid step. It's a wise step. It's asking her - in front of MC - to put her money where her mouth is (without giving her time to erase anything damaging). If she ISN'T contacting any other men, then that should ease your mind about continuing MC and looking into R down the road. But if she IS in contact, you'll have your answer up front.


----------



## Hicks

turnera said:


> Well, what I HAVEN'T seen in any of her texts is 'you're a great guy and probably the best man on the planet.' Nor has she said 'I'll do all I can to make this up to you.'
> 
> In other words, she has no admiration for him, only for the family unit. And she still doesn't see that this is all on her and she will be - SHOULD be - in a subservient position for a long time to come. The way she has worded things is that she wants to have her old life back. Period.


These ideas are not going to magically appear in the wife's head.
Dadof2 has to start putting them there. She is open to putting things back together. He has to give her more of a roadmap of what this means.


----------



## happyman64

Of course it is "All About Her". But those selfish tendencies that waywards display do not go away overnight.

It takes weeks, months for the wayward to start comprehending just how selfish their motivations were.

I think Dof2 understands that.

These issues take time to sort out.

Sometimes it takes serious consequences like Divorce to get a wayward to see the results of these selfish decisions.

That is up to Dof2 to decide.


----------



## turnera

Hicks said:


> These ideas are not going to magically appear in the wife's head.
> Dadof2 has to start putting them there. She is open to putting things back together. He has to give her more of a roadmap of what this means.


Bullcorn. I've seen dozens of ex-WWs figure it out on their own. If she can't see - and say - that he's admirable...then he's not admirable to her. If she can't see - and say - that she has A LOT to make up for...then she doesn't THINK she does. If she were, she'd be scrambling to get him to notice. Instead, she goes dark.


----------



## turnera

happyman64 said:


> Of course it is "All About Her". But those selfish tendencies that waywards display do not go away overnight.
> 
> It takes weeks, months for the wayward to start comprehending just how selfish their motivations were.
> 
> I think Dof2 understands that.
> 
> These issues take time to sort out.
> 
> Sometimes it takes serious consequences like Divorce to get a wayward to see the results of these selfish decisions.
> 
> That is up to Dof2 to decide.


Which is why he absolutely should not R at this point.


----------



## badmemory

Hicks said:


> Some guy will start sniffing around, and BOOM... she will be out of the picture again just like that.


If that happens, I'm not sure that wouldn't be the best resolution for Dad anyway.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

tdwal said:


> My son went through this and his child was abused. I am the grandfather and I spent a tremendous amount of money trying to rescue him from the abusers. His ex found the worst possible one. We were successful in getting total custody of the child but he is damaged for life Im afraid. He will always remember it.


So greatful you were able to get him out. 

Protecting these kids... there is NO nobler quest.

SO sorry for the damage <3


----------



## happyman64

turnera said:


> Which is why he absolutely should not R at this point.



It is up to him to decide if and when Turnera.

And right now he is just watching, listening and doing his thing with the kids.

But that doesn't mean he should not communicate with his wife regarding Reconciliation.

He needs to be the leader of his life, his family and certainly his marriage.

He needs to get in his wife's head and question her regarding what is motivating her desire to keep the family intact, keep the marriage intact and forge a new relationship with Dof2.

He can only observe so much and for so long.

Now is the time to dig deep into her head and her heart to understand what her true intentions are.


----------



## turnera

happyman64 said:


> It is up to him to decide if and when Turnera.


I guess that's why I used the word 'should.' You know, instead of 'must.'



happyman64 said:


> And right now he is just watching, listening and doing his thing with the kids. But that doesn't mean he should not communicate with his wife regarding Reconciliation.


And, again, if you notice, I have given specific opinions of HOW to communicate his desire for R. 



happyman64 said:


> He needs to be the leader of his life, his family and certainly his marriage. He needs to get in his wife's head and question her regarding what is motivating her desire to keep the family intact, keep the marriage intact and forge a new relationship with Dof2.
> 
> He can only observe so much and for so long.


So, as you said to _me_, it is up to _him _to decide if and when. 

So you know, I want them to R. I think they have a good shot at it. Just not now. Not until she's hit rock bottom, realized what she might have thrown away (REALLY realized, and not some shallow 'I saw a birthday party and now I understand'), and is finally willing to look her own flaws in the face through a LOT of therapy, she can then come to him with humility, grace, and gratitude for the second chance. As it is, she shows none of the above and, without the aforementioned, will almost surely cheat again in the future when she gets bored again.

They can afford to wait, to get this right.


----------



## dadof2

Thanks HM and Turnera. That last post exchange really explains it well. I am not jumping into R just yet. She has asked me to eat dinner with her and the kids tonight and I told her I have plans. I am going to think about things this weekend and if we are to start doing things together, it will start with MC.

I do realize that there will be boundaries set by me and if she doesn't play by the rules then its over. Honestly my mind changes daily on whether I want to give her another shot or just try to move on.


----------



## Hicks

dadof2 said:


> I do realize that there will be boundaries set by me and if she doesn't play by the rules then its over. Honestly my mind changes daily on whether I want to give her another shot or just try to move on.


It will keep changing after you supposedly "decide" anything.

That's why you should start with boundaries first, decision second.


----------



## turnera

There's no harm in giving her another shot as long as you're not just moving back in together and you make it clear you are in no hurry to make a decision. She can get in line with any other ladies you're taking out. 

It would help to KNOW your boundaries NOW, though. As in, if you're not showing any steps toward making this up to me, I'm not interested. Or, if you want to R, you'll either have to quit, transfer, or file a harassment claim against OM to have him removed; until then, I have no interest in talking R. Or, I want a _written _statement from you about why you pulled a RO on me and disparaged my reputation.


----------



## Hicks

By doing this what is suggested, without having to weigh any decisions yourself, without having to spend any weekends thinking about anything, without having any moral dillemmas, you can figure out pretty quick if reconciliation is in the cards.


----------



## LongWalk

dadof2 said:


> Thanks HM and Turnera. That last post exchange really explains it well. I am not jumping into R just yet. She has asked me to eat dinner with her and the kids tonight and I told her I have plans. I am going to think about things this weekend and if we are to start doing things together, it will start with MC.
> 
> I do realize that there will be boundaries set by me and if she doesn't play by the rules then its over. Honestly my mind changes daily on whether I want to give her another shot or just try to move on.


Good decision. Do this on your own schedule. MC is the place to make commitments. You can speak without being interrupted. Good questions get support from the therapist. MC can help a lot even if there is no reconciliation.

You can say there, for example, that you forgive her for what she did but you are moving on. Now you see the purpose of MC as a place to work out a good co-parenting relationship.

As too your WW's statement about the birthday party or dance triggering her remorse fundamentally, I don't think this is true. She decided some time ago that she was aiming for reconciliation. She has never shared the truth about her thought process. She is keeping that private.

As HappyMan noted the madness does not evaporate instantly. It comes and goes. She probably went through a variety of mixed up feelings.

Someone told you she stopped parking by POSOM's car at school. Why did she do that? Did POSOM tell her that everyone was looking at them to see if they exchanged horney looks every morning and afternoon? Did they need to tone it down? Did that fear of public opinion kill her desire for him? You just don't know. Explanation of the truth will be a kind of torture for her. She is doing everything to avoid straightforward communication about the past.

Her primary motivation may be to salvage her self image, rather than to love you. But only you know her character.

What do you wonder about?

You presumably have many questions about the affair and her state of mind.

By the way, since she can read you well, she has been able to see your desire for her when you meet. If there was pain and longing in your eyes she may well have observed this. When you have become distant, she has tried to stimulate contact.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Thanks HM and Turnera. That last post exchange really explains it well. I am not jumping into R just yet. She has asked me to eat dinner with her and the kids tonight and I told her I have plans. I am going to think about things this weekend and if we are to start doing things together, it will start with MC.
> 
> I do realize that there will be boundaries set by me and if she doesn't play by the rules then its over. Honestly my mind changes daily on whether I want to give her another shot or just try to move on.


I just want to point something out here...

Your WW has now displayed exactly the behavior that you were hoping to see from her. Maybe it was your persistent casual aloofness (or what she perceived as such, anyway) that led her to finally pour her heart out to you on the phone.... who knows? !? Either way, it would seem that she's finally started to arrive at -- or has at least plotted a course to -- Trueremorseville.


----------



## bandit.45

Be available to talk but stay emotionally aloof. 

It may be that she did not break up with the OM for good until right before she called you crying. Or they could just be fighting. When she makes up with him she will forget she ever called you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

The truth about the affair is 95 percent hidden. All sorts of things could have happened.

I forget, Dof2, does OM ex wife live in your town? Do you know her?


----------



## Chaparral

Don't be afraid to tell her what a risk it is to take her back for you. She has no idea what you have been through. Letting her know any backsliding is a permanent deal breaker let's her know everything can come crashing down permanently.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> Don't be afraid to tell her what a risk it is to take her back for you. She has no idea what you have been through. Letting her know any backsliding is a permanent deal breaker let's her know everything can come crashing down permanently.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## barbados

dadof2 said:


> This is one thing that is HUGE in my mind. I am afraid that STBX will never have a stable, loving household after we divorce. I understand that is not a reason to keep trying for R, but I can't help but think of our kids growing up seeing a revolving door of men in their mother's life.


Are you kidding ? 

After all this person has done to you and your 4 & 2 year old children, you are worried about this ?

Even with every right thing you have done, you still have a Plan B mindset.

For god sakes brother wake up. Get divorced, meet someone else, and be the best Dadof2 you can be to your kids.


----------



## jim123

OP

You can R but not at this time. Is your wife in IC? I do not remember. 

Before you do anything, WW needs to know why she did all this.

She did not just have an A, she replaced you. She played house with another man for four months. She introduced your kids to him.

Read threads like Augusto, Icantbelieveit and Road Scholar.

Most read how hard it is for them in R, Your wife has done far worse. 

You need to fix you more than anything before you attempt to R. Move on as she works on her. Come back if you want but do it through strength and not weakness.


----------



## Augusto

dadof2 said:


> Thanks HM and Turnera. That last post exchange really explains it well. I am not jumping into R just yet. She has asked me to eat dinner with her and the kids tonight and I told her I have plans. I am going to think about things this weekend and if we are to start doing things together, it will start with MC.
> 
> I do realize that there will be boundaries set by me and if she doesn't play by the rules then its over. Honestly my mind changes daily on whether I want to give her another shot or just try to move on.


**** no....tell her you have a date


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

Chaparral said:


> Don't be afraid to tell her what a risk it is to take her back for you. She has no idea what you have been through. Letting her know any backsliding is a permanent deal breaker let's her know everything can come crashing down permanently.


I agree with the first part, 100%. But I don't think she's done nearly enough forward sliding yet.

Wasn't what she did the deal breaker? That's an awful lot 2 make up for, and she hasn't done enough yet.

-ol' 2long


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Affairs can never be "made up for."

That's a false expectation from the get go, therefore setting up a reconciliation to fail.

New must be built, accepting the failure, learning from the past and moving forward. But an expectation for her to "make up for" what she did is totally unrealistic, because it isn't possible. This is one of those injuries that cannot be repaid.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

Blossom Leigh said:


> Affairs can never be "made up for."
> 
> That's a false expectation from the get go, therefore setting up a reconciliation to fail.
> 
> New must be built, accepting the failure, learning from the past and moving forward. But an expectation for her to "make up for" what she did is totally unrealistic, because it isn't possible. This is one of those injuries that cannot be repaid.


So recovery is also not possible?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

2long said:


> So recovery is also not possible?


Recovery is possible.

Just like other permanent injuries like losing a leg. Your recovery includes the loss of the leg.


----------



## happyman64

> I do realize that there will be boundaries set by me and if she doesn't play by the rules then its over. Honestly my mind changes daily on whether I want to give her another shot or just try to move on.


Boundaries are key. And believe it or not you both need boundaries.

And we all understand where your head is. IT is because your heart is in a different place.

IMO MC is a safe place to go with your wife. You both can be honest with each other.

Get the hurts out.

Because it is clear that your wife is starting to feel the hurt caused by her actions.

And she needs to hear/feel the hurt from you in MC.

Not bashing. Not mud slinging. That solves nothing.

A good MC can most likely help you decide if your wife is truly remorseful.

And truly worthy of you.....

HM


----------



## just got it 55

Dad I really want to hold your feet to the fire on the public apology
and airing the truth

What say you Brother ?

55


----------



## bandit.45

And...no R should even be thought of until she gives you a full, complete and logical explanation as to why she took out the RO against you. 

To me that is the wrench jamming the gears here.


----------



## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> And...no R should even be thought of until she gives you a full, complete and logical explanation as to why she took out the RO against you.
> 
> To me that is the wrench jamming the gears here.


I think yoga boy coordinated this. I think he has been down this road before. I think he set up the yoga classes intentionally looking for a mate and didn't care if she was married or not.

There have been many yoga scandals, google it. He was following a plan. It backfired when she figured out what a creep he was and what he was after...........a minion to take care of his kids and trailer while he took care of his yoga girls. Or maybe not


----------



## bandit.45

Chaparral said:


> I think yoga boy coordinated this. I think he has been down this road before. I think he set up the yoga classes intentionally looking for a mate and didn't care if she was married or not.
> 
> There have been many yoga scandals, google it. He was following a plan. It backfired when she figured out what a creep he was and what he was after...........a minion to take care of his kids and trailer while he took care of his yoga girls. Or maybe not


 I don't believe she has broken things off with the OM. 


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

Chaparral said:


> I think yoga boy coordinated this. I think he has been down this road before. I think he set up the yoga classes intentionally looking for a mate and didn't care if she was married or not.
> 
> There have been many yoga scandals, google it. He was following a plan. It backfired when she figured out what a creep he was and what he was after...........a minion to take care of his kids and trailer while he took care of his yoga girls. Or maybe not


Read dadof2 's thread in Divorce section.

Don't make OM some kind of mythical evil schemer. His wife was not a victim that fell to his charms. She went through the affair very methodically and was very calculative when she was in it.


----------



## LongWalk

bandit.45 said:


> I don't believe she has broken things off with the OM.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why do you say that?


----------



## Chaparral

LongWalk said:


> Why do you say that?


She isn't very proactive in wanting a R unless Dad isn't telling us something.


----------



## jim123

Chaparral said:


> She isn't very proactive in wanting a R unless Dad isn't telling us something.


Not proactive is an understatement. Because of the RO, our OP has not had a Dday like most of us.

Outside of MC they have not talked about anything regarding the relationship. 

One thing I notice is that WW only invites OP to things where is there are third parties. It always something with the kids. Never just them. The only discussion of the A is in MC.

She is not capable of helping OP heal. She wants a total rugsweep.


----------



## Nucking Futs

jim123 said:


> Not proactive is an understatement. Because of the RO, our OP has not had a Dday like most of us.
> 
> Outside of MC they have not talked about anything regarding the relationship.
> 
> *One thing I notice is that WW only invites OP to things where is there are third parties.* It always something with the kids. Never just them. The only discussion of the A is in MC.
> 
> She is not capable of helping OP heal. She wants a total rugsweep.


It's as if she wanted to give the impression of someone who is actually afraid of him. "Oh, noes, I can only see you where there are other people around to protect me from you."


----------



## jim123

Nucking Futs said:


> It's as if she wanted to give the impression of someone who is actually afraid of him. "Oh, noes, I can only see you where there are other people around to protect me from you."


Could be. However, you can not R like this. She wants to do the let's pretend it never happened thing.


----------



## LongWalk

Sort of like Lois Lerner and the IRS?


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Sort of like Lois Lerner and the IRS?


Not to threadjack but the IRS is an offshore corp that was founded right after the federal reserve act.
Anyway.


----------



## bandit.45

Chaparral said:


> She isn't very proactive in wanting a R unless Dad isn't telling us something.


Agreed. She's not all in. And that is indicative of the OM still having an influence over her. 

I think all her crying and half-ass apologies, going to MC and giving that a half hearted effort, is all part of the big stage play. She is trying to make it look like she is working so hard to save her marriage. Meanwhile she has not offered to quit her job or seek a transfer. She and the OM have taken things underground to get everyone of their backs. Later, when Dad has had enough of her half-efforts and lets the D go through, she can tell family and friends that she did everything she could to save the relationship, but that in the end Dad could not forgive her, which is in following with his abusive and a angry nature. She can blame him, not herself. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## just got it 55

bandit.45 said:


> Agreed. She's not all in. And that is indicative of the OM still having an influence over her.
> 
> I think all her crying and half-ass apologies, going to MC and giving that a half hearted effort, is all part of the big stage play. She is trying to make it look like she is working so hard to save her marriage. Meanwhile she has not offered to quit her job or seek a transfer. She and the OM have taken things underground to get everyone of their backs. Later, when Dad has had enough of her half-efforts and lets the D go through, she can tell family and friends that she did everything she could to save the relationship, but that in the end Dad could not forgive her, which is in following with his abusive and a angry nature. She can blame him, not herself.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly why he must insist on a public apology
If she says she can't or won't then that's all you need to know to move on or forward.

dad .....I feel that you are fearful of asking this of her. Because you have not addressed this on an open forum.
If that is the case this will fail miserably .

You are falling into don't ask the question if you are afraid of the answer. This IMO is telling me that your head is not a clear or objective as it needs to be.

Again What say you dad ?

Get that out there to her now without delay today.

55


----------



## Nucking Futs

bandit.45 said:


> Agreed. She's not all in. And that is indicative of the OM still having an influence over her.
> 
> I think all her crying and half-ass apologies, going to MC and giving that a half hearted effort, is all part of the big stage play. She is trying to make it look like she is working so hard to save her marriage. Meanwhile she has not offered to quit her job or seek a transfer. She and the OM have taken things underground to get everyone of their backs. *Later, when Dad has had enough of her half-efforts and lets the D go through,* she can tell family and friends that she did everything she could to save the relationship, but that in the end Dad could not forgive her, which is in following with his abusive and a angry nature. She can blame him, not herself.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll remind you all again of something that makes this R all the more likely to be false: _she_ is divorcing _him_. It's not him that's letting the divorce continue, _she_ is.



dadof2 said:


> Sorry for the delay, but I have been catching up at work as well as meeting with my attorney to get our gameplan going.
> 
> UPDATE: I was finally served with papers Saturday. I had known for about 3 weeks that she had filed due to checking the online records. STBX never told me that she had filed, and I haven't indicated to her yet that I have been served.


Post #258


----------



## LongWalk

Since she filed, does that mean she can unilaterally withdraw the petition or whatever the papers are called?

Would Dof 2 have to agree to put a stop to it?

It is entirely possible that Dadof2's wife feels that she has suffered. 

Is she capable of feeling for him? Does she want him to be so strong that can take all that she has dished out?

Is she anxious to have sex with him to reclaim him?

Now that he is stronger, he may be more desirable. However, if he accepts her back without consequences and boundaries, does that undermine his masculinity?

Catch-22. This is why some cheating wives love their betrayed husband but can't get him out if the friend zone.


----------



## Nucking Futs

LongWalk said:


> Since she filed, does that mean she can unilaterally withdraw the petition or whatever the papers are called?
> 
> Would Dof 2 have to agree to put a stop to it?


She is the only one who can stop the divorce. Dof2 doesn't have any say in it. If she decided to withdraw the divorce and he didn't agree with that he can file for divorce on his own.



LongWalk said:


> It is entirely possible that Dadof2's wife feels that she has suffered.
> 
> Is she capable of feeling for him? Does she want him to be so strong that can take all that she has dished out?
> 
> Is she anxious to have sex with him to reclaim him?
> 
> Now that he is stronger, he may be more desirable. However, *if he accepts her back without consequences and boundaries, does that undermine his masculinity?
> *
> Catch-22.


Absolutely


----------



## jim123

LongWalk said:


> Since she filed, does that mean she can unilaterally withdraw the petition or whatever the papers are called?
> 
> Would Dof 2 have to agree to put a stop to it?
> 
> It is entirely possible that Dadof2's wife feels that she has suffered.
> 
> Is she capable of feeling for him? Does she want him to be so strong that can take all that she has dished out?
> 
> Is she anxious to have sex with him to reclaim him?
> 
> Now that he is stronger, he may be more desirable. However, if he accepts her back without consequences and boundaries, does that undermine his masculinity?
> 
> Catch-22.


She is the only one who can stop it since it is not joint. Most of the hard stuff with the D is already agreed and done. The financial part is mostly formula. As long as she is reasonable this will be it when the year is up.

If she dismisses the D, OP will have to file. He may be able to it done quickly as they have already been separated.

He can not stop this but may be able to delay.


----------



## jim123

Nucking Futs said:


> I'll remind you all again of something that makes this R all the more likely to be false: _she_ is divorcing _him_. It's not him that's letting the divorce continue, _she_ is.
> 
> 
> 
> Post #258


I am with you. The responses seem to miss this important fact. She had also moved out and hit him with an RO with the D.

She has been in control since before the D. OP is standing up a little bit but I suspect a full surrender from OP soon.

In the end OP will struggle just like Augusto, Rhoad Scholar and Icantbelievethis. The emotional impact has yet to hit him and she will make him rug sweep.


----------



## Nucking Futs

jim123 said:


> I am with you. The responses seem to miss this important fact. She had also moved out and hit him with an RO with the D.
> 
> She has been in control since before the D. OP is standing up a little bit but I suspect a full surrender from OP soon.
> 
> In the end OP will struggle just like Droog, Augusto, Rhoad Scholar and Icantbelievethis. The emotional impact has yet to hit him and she will make him rug sweep.


Fify.


----------



## happyman64

Have you forgotten that he is not sure if he wants to even try to R with his wife???

He said it a few pages back.

His wife has proven to be a pretty mean person during her affair.

I'm sure Dof2 is weighing his options and her "worth" as we all dissect his posts.

HM


----------



## jim123

happyman64 said:


> Have you forgotten that he is not sure if he wants to even try to R with his wife???
> 
> He said it a few pages back.
> 
> His wife has proven to be a pretty mean person during her affair.
> 
> I'm sure Dof2 is weighing his options and her "worth" as we all dissect his posts.
> 
> HM


Given how much she has done to him and how easy it was for her to get him, does worry me. One phone call and no real actions.


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2,

The high level of speculation here from us suggests a consensus opinion: you are at a critical point. It's tough but you are up to it. I don't think you will fold. Your WW expects you to be strong. She likes it. Whether you D or R, the strong you will be better off. Strong in R, you'll have a better chance of success. Strong in D, you'll have a better co-parenting relationship.

If you want to stimulate your WW a bit, you might tell her you are a little surprized at he reluctance regarding the divorce. Tell her that if you divorce, your goal is to work towards a good co-parentlng relationship and if at all possible a friendly atmosphere. Maybe you should say something along these lines:



> Listen WW, sure I was hurt by your decision to choose another man over me, but I am not going to dwell on it for the rest of my life. It was a choice you made and I have to accept it.
> 
> You now say that divorce is unattractive to you, but that is just because you've not really experienced it. You'll have your freedom. We'll always be a sort of a family, bound together by the kids.
> 
> Tell me what about the split that causes you anxiety. I will try and explain how we are going to make it work. Your life after divorce will have stability. I am going to have a stable life. If it is something like celebrating birthdays together, I think we can work something out.
> 
> I am not going to be the bitter ex from Hell and neither are you.


If and when you go to MC, sooner or later you need to hear her say that she loves you and wants you. Without that what is there? 

If she insists she wants R, don't speak suddenly. Create a pregnant silence and ask her if she is going to give you her emails and text messages with OM?

Without those there is no security for you. You need to know about the affair so that you'll know what you are going to put behind you over time.


----------



## Chaparral

I would not want past emails in many cases. But all current and future texts, emails, social media, etc. Is a must and non negotiable.


----------



## LongWalk

RoadScholar intercepted the message from his wife about having the Gray Goose vodka by herself in the bar which she and the OM frequented. That told him a great deal.

Were I in Dof2's position, I would want to know the worst so that I could compartmentalize it. As to secrets in the future, that would be non-negotiable. I wouldn't even discuss R without them.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

I got the feeling that his WS/stbxw was/is only being nicer to him to save face. She was the typical run away wife. Started having secret sex with the OM. Moved out and away from the OP(and other prying eyes). Was keeping house and watching the OM's kids. Well on her way to blending the families.

The word got out. They had to cool it at work. Then the OM give's her the "we should lay low for a while" speech. It's no longer rain bows, butterflies and unicorns.

She only sees/has sex with the OM a few more times and realizes that this fairy tale is coming to and end.

Now, out on her own, with no OM at the moment, she realizes... If she can ease here way back home and her BS doesn't make her jump through too many hoops, she can bide her time.

Then, when she tells the OP "I tried, but it's just not gonna happen". She moves back out, finishes the D that she put on hold and either picks back up with the last OM, or she has a new OM waiting in the wings.

She's more prepared when she leaves this time. She makes it look like she tried, but failed to save the marriage that she ruined and doesn't look as much of a tramp compared to the first time she left him and the kids. She get's her new life back and doesn't have to sneak around, or file false RO's to keep her BS from finding out what she's really doing.


----------



## dadof2

Well after a week or so of NC by me, STBX came over last night after the kids went to bed. She was broken down crying saying she knows she messed up and all she wants is for us to be together again. She made a similar phone call earlier in the week and I stayed distant. She came over and acknowledged her mistakes and said that she knows that I don't owe her anything. She said that I am the one that she wants and that she was very hurt and confused and thought the only way out was divorce.

I explained to her that she had many options other than the route she took and she said she knows that. She offered to change jobs at the end of the year to get away from OM. I told her that I have 0 trust in her right now and that takes time to get back. She said she understands that and is more than willing to be accountable at all times. I said, "Then I need to see your phone right now." She let me look and there was no texts or calls to OM, and there were a few between her and one of her toxic friends back in August about doing something together with friend's husband and OM. She said that is the last time she has seen him outside of work. I checked her FB page and she has blocked OM, as well as blocked his number from contacting her phone. She had an email set up on her phone and it was clean. She had no advance warning that I was going to ask, so I do feel a level of comfort to believe that it is over with OM.

I told her that I really don't know what I want. I said that a lot has already been done and that we can never get back to how it was when we first married. She understood that. She also brought up that we had problems in our marriage before the infidelity, and I agreed. I told her that she did not let us start to work on those problems because she ran off so quick and filed the RO. She said she filed the RO because her friends at work told her it was easy for a woman to file it and it would give her space from me. I told her that it was a huge deal to me and not something I would forget. She apologized for that.

I feel like her apologies are sincere and that she is taking ownership of what she has done. Now I have the tough task of deciding if I want to start a relationship back with her. I honestly don't know. And I told her that. It could be great, but it could also just be a temporary high that lasts until she gets bored and finds another OM. I told her I can't go through this again.

We did decide to schedule a MC appointment, and I am calling today to line that up. I think that is a safe place for us to talk, and I feel like I have rebuffed her enough and she has stayed persistent so I am comfortable seeing what she says in MC.

I have mixed emotions about all of this. She said that a switch went off in her head about 2 weeks ago that she wants to be back with me. She said she will spend the rest of her life trying to make it up to me. I told her I appreciate that but I am very skeptical of anything she says right now.


----------



## naiveonedave

FWIW - I think you are doing this the right way and the best way for you. Skepticism is your friend right now.


----------



## tryingpatience

Keep vigilant. You said she had non prior warning that you would check her phone. But she came to you crying so she could have been prepared. My stbxw would regularly clean up the logs and texts on her phone. I didn't understand the habit at the time but its obvious now.

You'll have to wait to see how she acts which unfortunately takes time. Hopefully you'll have the patience. Personally I would have demanded she find a way to leave the school immediately and figure out a way to sub teach or something.

They had sex. How could you avoid what happened? Especially with these toxic friends. I would think MC would hard under these circumstances. Everything would need to be a fresh start.


----------



## convert

try and protect your self as much as you can.

yes those dam toxic friends; see if you can't cut them out of both of your lives

one thing i did was stash some money away


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

tryingpatience said:


> Keep vigilant. You said she had non prior warning that you would check her phone. But she came to you crying so she could have been prepared. My stbxw would regularly clean up the logs and texts on her phone. I didn't understand the habit at the time but its obvious now.


^^^This.^^^^

Tell her that you'll need a copy of her phones call log if you're even going to consider an R.

She will still be working near the OM for the entire the school. It's going to be a new form of torture for you if you do decide to attempt an R.

I think that you handled her asking about trying an R very well. 

She changed her mind about wanting to be with you once already. She then changed her mind and now says that she now want's to stay together with you. She could change her mind again, before next June...

There are lists posted here on what should be given by a WS if they truly want to R. You should read them so you know what you would tell her her she needs to do for the next time that she brings it up.


----------



## tryingpatience

And like LongWalk mentioned. Now is a good time to ask for the past emails. It might help you decide if you want to proceed with R or not. It will give you resolve to go either way.


----------



## tom67

naiveonedave said:


> FWIW - I think you are doing this the right way and the best way for you. Skepticism is your friend right now.


:iagree:
Take your time and don't forget about the public apology also.


----------



## convert

I wish you the best of luck.

I am concerned she will eventually see you as controlling with all of the demands, which are well within reason in my opinion.

Like the time you had to go to the bar and pull her out where she and OM and other friends were.


----------



## Graywolf2

dadof2 said:


> I feel like her apologies are sincere.


They are. She’s very sorry that she may have to pay a price. It’s like she had fun robbing banks until she was caught. She’s very sorry that she may have to go to jail. Now that there is a price for robbing the banks she sincerely wishes that she never did it.



dadof2 said:


> She is taking ownership of what she has done.


This is what the parole board has to hear if you’re going to have any chance of getting out of jail.

My money is on that you will eventually take her back. She will do and say the right things and offer sex. You will not be able to resist. 

That’s fine if that’s what you want to do, but by all that holy proceed with the divorce and make if final. You’re in a stronger position now than you will ever be and deep down she and her friends will respect you for it. 

Shack up with her. If you divorce all her affair and RO will have cost her is a decrease in security. If she wants to come back for love and not security then she should have no problem with that.



dadof2 said:


> I said that a lot has already been done and that we can never get back to how it was when we first married.


Then why remain married. She might be girlfriend worthy but she’s not wife worthy. All staying married does is give her more power over you. If she cheats again (which we know she’s very capable of) would you rather her be your wife or girlfriend?

Ironically she is less likely to cheat as your girlfriend than as your wife. She’s established that her marriage vows mean nothing so that isn’t any protection. If she’s your girlfriend you can easily kick her out. That will give her more pause than any promise.

The RO will taint you forever. Think of what a hot topic all the NFL domestic abuse is right now. What would the average person think about a man whose wife filed a RO on him? Not that you want to but you could never run for public office. I'm not sure but a RO might come up if you applyed for a new job.


----------



## tom67

She in my opinion, has to get off the xanax asap.
I know you said the doctor knows but I doubt he knows she downs it with a bottle of wine.
If she takes it everyday she is an addict and it will screw with her brain over time.
Just my 2 cents.


----------



## happyman64

Dof2

I think you did great!

Did your wife discuss with you stopping the Divorce?



> It could be great, but it could also just be a temporary high that lasts until she gets bored and finds another OM. I told her I can't go through this again.


Now I will give you a little HM advice.

I am married 23 years. KNown my wife for almost 29 years.

My 3 siblings have all been married over 20 years.

My parents have been married over 53 years. Still crazy about each other.

My wife's siblings are all married over 18 years. 

My inlaws have been married 52 years.

No divorce in our immediate family. None at all.

Why?

Because our parents have taught us one thing. What you put into a marriage is what you get out. And both partners must contribute equally into the marriage.

So I think your plan to communicate within MC is a great idea.

I also think both of you as individuals need to work on yourselves as well. I do this everyday and consider myself a work in progress.

I cherish my wife, family and life but know that I can do better as a man.

I urge you to continue to fight for your marriage. And I urge to encourage your wife to do the same.

And if she vows to make it up to to you for the rest of your life, well, make sure you hold her to that Dof2.

Like I said I think you are worth it.

I think she is coming to realize that as well.

And yes she really needs to dump the toxic friends and move to a different school.

Encourage her to do so.

HM


----------



## Graywolf2

Sorry. Double post


----------



## Openminded

It's often difficult to know if there is true remorse or if you are just Plan B. Take a very long time to decide which it is.


----------



## Squeakr

dadof2 said:


> I told her that she did not let us start to work on those problems because she ran off so quick and filed the RO. She said she filed the RO because her friends at work told her it was easy for a woman to file it and it would give her space from me. I told her that it was a huge deal to me and not something I would forget. She apologized for that.


This statement uneases me. So exactly how many friends did she have at work that knew/know about this and are guiding her in her decisions and actions? This element adds a new angle to this and it goes much deeper than you suspect, I would guess. My STBXW is a teacher also and it is a toxic environment when the coworkers/ friends are suggesting such extremes it is a lot deeper than you realize.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they are now advising her on dealing with you and the fallout from her A. Guiding her in how to cover up and recover from the pain and devastation she has caused (such as deleting all history when she is done and keeping very few things on there and only that which would prove innocence on her part). I would tread lightly here and be ever vigilant (especially if she is wanting to wait it out until the end of the year. I would push for something sooner as obviously she is dealing with toxic people on a daily basis now as well.

Did she mention anything about approaching her parents and renouncing everything directly in from of them?

Good job keeping vigilant.


----------



## happyman64

> Originally Posted by dadof2 View Post
> I said that a lot has already been done and that we can never get back to how it was when we first married.


You are right.

But if you both have skin in the game and you lboth love your kids then your goal should be to make it better than it ever was before she pulled this crap.

Never settle for less.


----------



## bfree

Why is she waiting to leave the job? I would think if she were serious she would quit now. She is still in contact with the OM at work right? What about the RO? Is that still in effect? Shouldn't she take steps to address that? If she can't get it removed through the court system shouldn't she voluntarily have her lawyer write up a document stating that the RO was false and have it notarized? All I hear is promises and words. Has she taken any concrete actions to address the harm she's caused?


----------



## bfree

She filed the divorce right? It is common knowledge that the one that files has the greater leverage. Has she withdrawn the divorce petition or is she keeping it out there in order to hedge her bets?


----------



## azteca1986

dadof2 said:


> I told her that she did not let us start to work on those problems because she ran off so quick and filed the RO. She said she filed the RO because her friends at work told her it was easy for a woman to file it and it would give her space from me *to go and sleep with the OM undisturbed*. I told her that it was a huge deal to me and not something I would forget. She apologized for that.


Her apology is a start. Now she has to tell her parents, with you present, that the RO was a complete fabrication and unwarranted stain on your character. And those 'friends' of hers all need to go. 



> I have mixed emotions about all of this. She said that a switch went off in her head about 2 weeks ago that she wants to be back with me. She said she will spend the rest of her life trying to make it up to me. I told her I appreciate that but I am very skeptical of anything she says right now.


I'm so relieved when I read this last paragraph. You have plenty of evidence to remain skeptical till your fWW earns your trust again.

Graywolf2 makes a compelling case for carrying on with the divorce. Let it run it's course. The old marriage is dead and your fWW's actions prove that her vows and her marriage meant nothing to her. Be cautiously open to dating her and trying again, but protect yourself and give her the divorce she filed on you.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I am glad she is rattled enough to reconsider her choices. This is good.

I am mortified that other women advise their friends to file restraining orders to facilitate an affair. Are you kidding me! That just flies all up in my keester for MANY reasons. The FIRST being putting at risk that ability for the women who ACTUALLY needed it like ME! The second being casting that FALSE reputation on their husband and their CHILDRENS FATHER ... whew I better stop while I'm ahead. That makes me MAD!!!!!!! I must be running with good women because there isn't a soul in my circle that would ever advise me to do that. Un freakin believable.... Some people just need a 2 x 4 across the a$$. ... sorry rant over...

One thing I wanted to say about this plan B thing that keeps popping up... as someone who probably was plan B, trust me when you no longer think of YOURSELF as plan B, others follow suit. I KNOW what I bring to the table and my H may choose to walk away at any given time, but when he does, he won't be walking away from a plan B to anyone. He will be losing a plan A. Big difference. So dont let this plan a thing vs plan b get you down. I can tell you are headed in the direction of owning your Plan A status and know that if she left later she is choosing to leave Plan A, so her loss.


----------



## turnera

azteca1986 said:


> Her apology is a start. Now she has to tell her parents, with you present, that the RO was a complete fabrication and unwarranted stain on your character. And those 'friends' of hers all need to go.


This is super important, dad.

And I would add that she needs to go to either her principal or the superintendent and tell them what OM did.


----------



## warlock07

dadof2 said:


> Well after a week or so of NC by me, STBX came over last night after the kids went to bed. She was broken down crying saying she knows she messed up and all she wants is for us to be together again. She made a similar phone call earlier in the week and I stayed distant. She came over and acknowledged her mistakes and said that she knows that I don't owe her anything. She said that I am the one that she wants and that she was very hurt and confused and thought the only way out was divorce.
> 
> I explained to her that she had many options other than the route she took and she said she knows that. She offered to change jobs at the end of the year to get away from OM. I told her that I have 0 trust in her right now and that takes time to get back. She said she understands that and is more than willing to be accountable at all times. I said, "Then I need to see your phone right now." She let me look and there was no texts or calls to OM, and there were a few between her and one of her toxic friends back in August about doing something together with friend's husband and OM. She said that is the last time she has seen him outside of work. I checked her FB page and she has blocked OM, as well as blocked his number from contacting her phone. She had an email set up on her phone and it was clean. She had no advance warning that I was going to ask, so I do feel a level of comfort to believe that it is over with OM.
> 
> I told her that I really don't know what I want. I said that a lot has already been done and that we can never get back to how it was when we first married. She understood that. She also brought up that we had problems in our marriage before the infidelity, and I agreed. I told her that she did not let us start to work on those problems because she ran off so quick and filed the RO. She said she filed the RO because her friends at work told her it was easy for a woman to file it and it would give her space from me. I told her that it was a huge deal to me and not something I would forget. She apologized for that.
> 
> I feel like her apologies are sincere and that she is taking ownership of what she has done. Now I have the tough task of deciding if I want to start a relationship back with her. I honestly don't know. And I told her that. It could be great, but it could also just be a temporary high that lasts until she gets bored and finds another OM. I told her I can't go through this again.
> 
> We did decide to schedule a MC appointment, and I am calling today to line that up. I think that is a safe place for us to talk, and I feel like I have rebuffed her enough and she has stayed persistent so I am comfortable seeing what she says in MC.
> 
> I have mixed emotions about all of this. She said that a switch went off in her head about 2 weeks ago that she wants to be back with me. She said she will spend the rest of her life trying to make it up to me. I told her I appreciate that but I am very skeptical of anything she says right now.


Honor

Loyalty

Integrity

Decency


----------



## dadof2

I appreciate the feedback. She did mention last night that she is considering talking to the principal at her school. She says she is afraid that everything will be made public. She said she realizes she made this mess and has to live with the consequences. I told her we didn't need the job and she could quit tomorrow. She said she has thought about that as well.

I feel like she is waking up, and I feel like the 180 has been my strength through all of this. At first I was doing it for her, but then I realized I needed to do it for myself so I can detach and put our relationship away. It is an amazing thing that as soon as I started doing things for myself, she immediately reacted. My advice to anyone in my shoes as a BS- 180 hard!! and do it for yourself!! And as many say on here, fake it until you make it!!


----------



## warlock07

Will you go through with the divorce ?


----------



## Chaparral

You need to ask her why the posom didn't work out. I think she needs to explain why she fell in love with him, they spent the summer together and now she has dumped him.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> I appreciate the feedback. She did mention last night that she is considering talking to the principal at her school. She says she is afraid that everything will be made public. She said she realizes she made this mess and has to live with the consequences. I told her we didn't need the job and she could quit tomorrow. She said she has thought about that as well.
> 
> I feel like she is waking up, and I feel like the 180 has been my strength through all of this. At first I was doing it for her, but then I realized I needed to do it for myself so I can detach and put our relationship away. It is an amazing thing that as soon as I started doing things for myself, she immediately reacted. My advice to anyone in my shoes as a BS- 180 hard!! and do it for yourself!! And as many say on here, fake it until you make it!!


:iagree:
Exactly you were exuding strength moving on and she sensed this. MMSLP.
She knows you have options.
She still has to take you over to her parents and tell the truth behind the RO.
Good job so far.


----------



## warlock07

Her parents are scummy as she is..



> She knows you have options.


Was dadof2 with anyone while she screwing and playing family with OM ?

Taking her cell and going through it was a pretty bad move IMO. You just told her how much you want R.


----------



## hookares

Chaparral said:


> You need to ask her why the posom didn't work out. I think she needs to explain why she fell in love with him, they spent the summer together and now she has dumped him.


OP only has her word for it that"she dumped him".
I hope. for his sake, he think long and hard before deciding
to not go through with divorce.


----------



## turnera

For sure, dad, ONE of them has to be gone from that school before you can get back together. Ok?


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



dadof2 said:


> I appreciate the feedback. She did mention last night that she is considering talking to the principal at her school. She says she is afraid that everything will be made public. She said she realizes she made this mess and has to live with the consequences. I told her we didn't need the job and she could quit tomorrow. She said she has thought about that as well.
> 
> I feel like she is waking up, and I feel like the 180 has been my strength through all of this. At first I was doing it for her, but then I realized I needed to do it for myself so I can detach and put our relationship away. It is an amazing thing that as soon as I started doing things for myself, she immediately reacted. My advice to anyone in my shoes as a BS- 180 hard!! and do it for yourself!! And as many say on here, fake it until you make it!!


It should be made public! That's part of accountability, accepting the consequences of our actions. In fact if I were you I might start thinking about insisting on it.


----------



## ButtPunch

tom67 said:


> She in my opinion, has to get off the xanax asap.
> I know you said the doctor knows but I doubt he knows she downs it with a bottle of wine.
> If she takes it everyday she is an addict and it will screw with her brain over time.
> Just my 2 cents.


Probably already has.


----------



## LongWalk

dadof2 said:


> I appreciate the feedback. She did mention last night that she is considering talking to the principal at her school. She says she is afraid that everything will be made public. She said she realizes she made this mess and has to live with the consequences. I told her we didn't need the job and she could quit tomorrow. She said she has thought about that as well.
> 
> I feel like she is waking up, and I feel like the 180 has been my strength through all of this. At first I was doing it for her, but then I realized I needed to do it for myself so I can detach and put our relationship away. It is an amazing thing that as soon as I started doing things for myself, she immediately reacted. My advice to anyone in my shoes as a BS- 180 hard!! and do it for yourself!! And as many say on here, fake it until you make it!!


Good job Dof2. 

I don't think your WW should quit her job. Slinking away to avoid shame should be for the OM. Your wife should write a complaint again OM for sexual harrassment. He was above her in authority and should not have had sexual relations with her. She is not blameless, but she must answer to you. OM should answer to the principal and school board.

In lieu of damages from the school system, OM could leave.

Putting OM in his place will help to restore moral order. If and when you let your WW back into the marital bed, you want her to feel that you are the prize. Sex in his office (making out and fondling at least occurred) was forbidden and exciting. History needs to be revised.

If she doesn't have electronic records, probably because she erased them, you still need a time line.

HappyMan is right that divorce is in someways the easy way out but it is not a step to take lightly.

One question you might pose in MC: does your wife not fear that you will seek a revenge affair? If not, why? If she says she believes in your integrity, you might say that few of us are 100%. What percent would she give herself now?

How many of her toxic friends have crashed their marriages?

Would you be willing to meet the principal of the school with her? She has to be responsible but you can still lead. I think the principal may be supportive of your wife if he sees your commitment. When I say "supportive" I mean that he will encourage her to be respectable in all aspects of her professional life. Having someone on the side of your marriage can be good.

p.s. I don't think their affair is secret at school. Impossible. She has been the subject of gossip.


----------



## GusPolinski

Condition #1: She fully explains her motivation behind the RO to her family, your family, any mutual friends, etc.

Condition #2: Toxic, affair-enabing friends have got to go... immediately and FOREVER. They represent as great a threat (perhaps even more so) to your marriage as OM himself.

(There should be *many*, *Many*, *MANY* more, by the way...)

Also, I hope like Hell you had a VAR rolling for that ENTIRE conversation...


----------



## SF-FAN

dadof2 said:


> I appreciate the feedback. She did mention last night that she is considering talking to the principal at her school. She says she is afraid that everything will be made public. She said she realizes she made this mess and has to live with the consequences. I told her we didn't need the job and she could quit tomorrow. She said she has thought about that as well.
> 
> I feel like she is waking up, and I feel like the 180 has been my strength through all of this. At first I was doing it for her, but then I realized I needed to do it for myself so I can detach and put our relationship away. It is an amazing thing that as soon as I started doing things for myself, she immediately reacted. My advice to anyone in my shoes as a BS- 180 hard!! and do it for yourself!! And as many say on here, fake it until you make it!!



As I've mentioned before, you and I are in the same situation and we have the same kind of struggle going on within ourselves on if we go back to the women that hurt us or move forward and not look back. 

I know one thing that is a strong reason for me wanting to attempt R is my kids. They are adamant that they do NOT want a step-dad or step-mom and I don't want them to have to deal with that either. No other man/woman will love my kids the way I do so keeping them away from that situation is my main goal. I would never forgive myself if my wife wanted to R and I declined and my kids suffered abuse from another man or woman. If my wife wants to R, then I am going to hear her out and proceed with caution.

Think about it this way, if your STBX wants to date around and be free, why get back with you?


----------



## turnera

I hope you discuss in your MC about her not wanting anyone to know. IMO, this is exactly what can lead to another OM. She has to show true humility to really 'get it' and not want to cheat again. And true humility means being willing to tell your important people that you cheated and learned your lesson and will never do it again. Doing that will go a LONG way toward stopping her the next time she thinks about it.


----------



## turnera

SF-FAN said:


> Think about it this way, if your STBX wants to date around and be free, why get back with you?


Money? Stability? To save face? Convenience? Help with the kids? Better vacations? Easy sex?


----------



## Squeakr

turnera said:


> I hope you discuss in your MC about her not wanting anyone to know.


I think she just didn't want their shared friends to know. Obviously most at school have some idea if coaching her on ROs and such. She needs to get another job.


----------



## turnera

Their shared friends should know, at least the ones they call good friends. They will help her and dad keep her accountable and will be on the lookout for future dangerous actions.


----------



## Squeakr

turnera said:


> Money? Stability? To save face? Convenience? Help with the kids? Better vacations? Easy sex?


Yep, she teaches and the salaries aren't that great. It is hard to go from an easy, comfortable, and well adored life to supporting yourself on a teacher's salary and being alone. The grass gets green again and you want back over the fence as you see how good you had it.


----------



## Squeakr

dadof2 said:


> I told her we didn't need the job and she could quit tomorrow. She said she has thought about that as well.


Don't let her quit this job but make her get a replacement somewhere else. If she quits the job, then you are just more responsible for her well being and comforts should she does this again (or heaven's forbid it is underground and surfaces again). Nothing like doing nothing and being financially cared for completely and living on her own (which is a distinct possibility if she strays again).


----------



## z_man

Graywolf2 said:


> Then why remain married. She might be girlfriend worthy but she’s not wife worthy. All staying married does is give her more power over you. If she cheats again (which we know she’s very capable of) would you rather her be your wife or girlfriend?
> 
> Ironically she less likely to cheat as your girlfriend than as your wife. She’s established that her marriage vows mean nothing so that isn’t any protection. If she’s your girlfriend you can easily kick her out. That will give her more pause than any promise.


:iagree:

This will test if she is looking to reconcile to get you back in her life for love or the convenience/protection/comfort that a marriage offers her at this point. E.I. "better you for a husband than no one at all."


----------



## LongWalk

Turning the ex wife into common law wife/live in GF has a poor track record of success on TAM. It is much lauded as a strategy but in reality it may not work so well. EmptyShellDad is not talking about it.


----------



## warlock07

Can dadof2 ever be secure healthy with her in a relationship ? What kind of life will it be when he keeps panicking if she is cheating on him, searching her devices(who prove nothing), tracking her, VARing her whenever her behavior is off etc. What kind of marriage will it be ? To both the parties ?


----------



## warlock07

> She said she filed the RO because her friends at work told her it was easy for a woman to file it and it would give her space from me.


She just blamed her friends and threw them under the bus. Wow!!


----------



## Squeakr

warlock07 said:


> She just blamed her friends and threw them under the bus. Wow!!


Yep. Shows she has accepted full responsibilities for her heinous actions doesn't it? Also shows how easy she is to just let others drive her actions.


----------



## Graywolf2

dadof2 said:


> I told her *WE* didn't need the job and she could quit tomorrow.


So you have already decided to take her back. All of your efforts won her back. Congratulations.



dadof2 said:


> She says she is afraid that everything will be made public.


This could be used as leverage until the divorce is final but screw it. Just be happy with your hard won prize.


----------



## GusPolinski

Just had another thought; w/ respect to this...



GusPolinski said:


> Condition #2: Toxic, affair-enabing friends have got to go... immediately and FOREVER. They represent as great a threat (perhaps even more so) to your marriage as OM himself.


...I just re-read this...



dadof2 said:


> *She said she filed the RO because HER FRIENDS AT WORK told her it was easy for a woman to file it and it would give her space from me.* I told her that it was a huge deal to me and not something I would forget. She apologized for that.


Yep... definitely time for a new job. Bump that one up a bit higher on the list.

And oh... and if any of these "friends" are female (and married), maybe you should share their thoughts on such blatant misuse of RO's w/ their husbands.


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2's first thread, first post:



> My wife and I have been married almost 5 years, we have 2 children ages 3 & 2. Things have been ok lately, not great but I figured we are just dealing with the daily grind of raising 2 kids and both working. We haven't had a lot of alone time with each other lately, but we both are to blame for that. Our sex life has been okay, but almost always initiated by me. About a month ago it came to light that she had been texting and seeing a coworker after hours. She is a school teacher and this guy is the PE coach who was running a workout group of 5-6 ladies after school. Once caught, she admitted that they had kissed once.
> 
> 
> 
> She was very apologetic for about 2 days, and then began blaming me for pushing her to this point. She started telling me things that I do that bother her that I had no clue about. She says I am too controlling and that I am threatened by her independence. (She just went back to work this year.) I began apologizing and telling her that I want to work on things and we agreed to see a marriage counselor. She also agreed to stop contacting the other man, and based on a later check of her deleted messages, she had not been contacting him, other than seeing him at work. She had stopped working out in the afternoons with the group also.
> 
> 
> 
> A week later we were supposed to take a vacation together but she said that things were bad and didn't feel like she would enjoy a vacation, and I understood. We sent the kids to her mom's for the weekend and decided to stay home together and maybe go on a couple dates and work on us. The first night without kids she says that the girls from work want to have a girls night out. I reluctantly agreed and asked her just to be honest with me about where they were going and when they would be back. Her friend came and picked her up, and I decided to follow them. I was not comfortable doing it, but I felt like I had to be able to trust her.
> 
> 
> 
> They wound up going to a different place than where they said they would go, and the other man's truck was also there. There was a group of about 10 people from her work there. I waited in the parking lot for 2 hours to see what would happen when she left. She eventually came outside and was obviously very drunk. Her friends were helping her stand up. I drove over and asked her to get in the car. I then went inside and confronted the man and told him that he wasn't going to ruin my marriage. The whole way home my wife said I was crazy and I stalked her and that nothing was going on between the 2 of them. She said I don't love her and that she is scared of me. I realize that they weren't there together and nothing was going on that night, but my wife was dishonest about where they were going and that the man wouldn't be there.
> 
> 
> 
> She stayed at a friend's house that night and the next day told me she wanted a trial separation. She said she needed some space away from me and that we were not friends anymore. She said that we needed some time apart and we could eventually start doing family nights with the kids and then she and I could go on dates together and start trying to reconnect. She told my parents and hers that this was only temporary, and even joked that she would be able to get a lot more help moving when she was ready to come back. We agreed on the ground rules of the separation, including finances, seeing others, and contacting each other. We agreed on no excessive spending, not seeing other people, and feel free to contact anytime, especially about the children. I helped her find and apartment, helped her move in, and we agreed to share the kids 50/50. She cleaned out every stitch of clothes she has and everything out of her bathroom.
> 
> 
> 
> While she was in the process of moving, she changed all of her passwords, removed all pictures of us together from her Facebook, and opened her own separate bank account. She kept her same phone for the time being.
> 
> 
> 
> The first week went as well as could be expected. We texted every few days, and she actually initiated the texts on the nights when I had the kids. I was very careful not to send any sappy texts or be overly apologetic. Then the first weekend she had the kids she went to her parents house 50 miles away and got a new phone number. She also made a significant withdrawal from our savings and put it in her new account. I called her to see what was going on, and she said that the phone was to keep me from going through her bill to see who she had been calling. She said the money withdrawal was a safety net in case she had an emergency and didn't want to have to "ask" me for money.
> 
> 
> 
> That's when I got upset with her for the first time in this whole process. I accused her of taking the savings to pay for a lawyer, which she denied. I also got upset about the new phone number saying that it seems like she is hiding something. I admitted to her that I tried to look up her bill online but was unsuccessful. She said that is precisely why she changed numbers because she didn't want me harassing people that she was calling. She said she is just trying to fully separate from me so she can find out what she wants. She then said she was scared of me and that I couldn't keep us together by threatening her. She said not to call or text anymore and that she did not want to keep going to marriage counseling. She is a teacher and said that she wants to concentrate on finishing the school year then she will start thinking about our marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> I have tried being the nice guy, and things seemed to be okay the first week of the separation. Then she changes her phone number,moves money out of savings, says not to call her and quits marriage counseling. I am just trying to make sense of everything. I tried talking to her mom about it, but she says that she has to take care of her daughter right now. She told me to go to counseling and work on my problems. I told her I want our marriage to work out and she said, "Just work on yourself right now." Her parents had been on my "side" when she first wanted separation, but now they seem to be supporting her and not talking to me at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Everything I have read and everyone I have talked to pretty much says that she has made up her mind that its over. I am in limbo right now between trying to make it work and trying to cope with the lost marriage. She has begun working out after school with the group again, but I have no evidence of her and the other man being alone at anytime. I am having a hard time trusting her, and tonight (Friday) is the first weekend that she doesn't have the kids and I am scared to death of what she will be doing. I want to know so bad if she is going out and if the other man will be there.
> 
> 
> 
> I have backed off and not contacted her all this week. Our last contact was Sunday, almost a week ago. I sent her a text on Thursday about the kids school and got no response. Obviously I can't do anything else right now. I just wish I knew what her mindset was so I could either move on or keep trying to make it work. I am going to counseling on my own right now. Is there any advice out there on how to deal with my emotions and try to keep my head clear? I am trying to stay busy but I have no motivation at work and am reluctant to do anything socially right now. My whole life was my wife and kids, and now that has been turned upside down.


----------



## ButtPunch

LongWalk said:


> Turning the ex wife into common law wife/live in GF has a poor track record of success on TAM. It is much lauded as a strategy but in reality it may not work so well. EmptyShellDad is not talking about it.


What do you consider success? Just because the relationships did not workout doesn't mean the strategy wasn't successful.


----------



## Hicks

dadof2 said:


> I appreciate the feedback. She did mention last night that she is considering talking to the principal at her school. She says she is afraid that everything will be made public. She said she realizes she made this mess and has to live with the consequences. I told her we didn't need the job and she could quit tomorrow. She said she has thought about that as well.
> 
> I feel like she is waking up, and I feel like the 180 has been my strength through all of this. At first I was doing it for her, but then I realized I needed to do it for myself so I can detach and put our relationship away. It is an amazing thing that as soon as I started doing things for myself, she immediately reacted. My advice to anyone in my shoes as a BS- 180 hard!! and do it for yourself!! And as many say on here, fake it until you make it!!



There is no "we". Does she need the job? IF you get divorced does this factor into custody or spousal support? You are talking like a man who is willing to take care of a woman. That is not a good route for you. You are not the giver at this point. You are the reciever.

Your between a rock and a hard place. 

But there can be no recovery if she still works there. Don't even try. You will regret it.

I would tell her that you cannot do anything while she is still working with him and working with friends who enabled and encouraged you. And yes that means quitting in the beginning of a school year. She is not an indentured servant. Feeling bad about doing this is a consequence which she needs anyhow.

If there is going to be a financial downside with your divorce if she quits, then I would tell her that she has to find a new job, or sign a post nuptual agreement before putting it out there that she should quit.

You are still all about "deciding" rather than "seeing".


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Dadof2... I see a lot of right that you are doing. I see reasonable accountability being built and it IS a building process as well as blending in grace with vigilance. And at the same time leaving your path open to deciding what you want to do. You are allowing space for her AND you, while protecting your kids... SMART. Some of these responses are just cutting you at every turn that you aren't doing this right and that right and not fast enough here and too slow there and on and on. And though well meaning and coming from boots on the ground, my boots came from the ground too and I think you are doing well. Full remorse takes time to be realized while keeping your eye on what full remorse looks like. Learning standing up for yourself and your CHILDREN, ehem... boys... during one of the most traumatic emotional injuries someone can experience also takes time. Dadof2 doesn't strike me as a Beta, but he does strike me as reasonable. Keep on keeping on. Regardless of your decision, you are being mindful, careful and intentional. Good on you.


----------



## Augusto

dadof2 said:


> I appreciate the feedback. She did mention last night that she is considering talking to the principal at her school. She says she is afraid that everything will be made public. She said she realizes she made this mess and has to live with the consequences. I told her we didn't need the job and she could quit tomorrow. She said she has thought about that as well.
> 
> I feel like she is waking up, and I feel like the 180 has been my strength through all of this. At first I was doing it for her, but then I realized I needed to do it for myself so I can detach and put our relationship away. It is an amazing thing that as soon as I started doing things for myself, she immediately reacted. My advice to anyone in my shoes as a BS- 180 hard!! and do it for yourself!! And as many say on here, fake it until you make it!!



That is true......BUT.....I would force the issue of telling her parents the real truth. Get the real remorse going here. See what she is willing to do. And if she does show it....Divorce her anyway.


----------



## LongWalk

re: Emptyshelldad's strategy of divorcing and then living together:

He may have succeeded. Maybe he and his ex are happy as things are. She must pursue him and he sees other women while she may not.

However, there aren't many examples of divorced couples living together.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I think you should date around before considering taking her back. How else are you supposed to know if she's truly the one. And how could you face her knowing you're uneven?


----------



## LongWalk

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think you should date around before considering taking her back. How else are you supposed to know if she's truly the one. And how could you face her knowing you're uneven?


In other words, he would tell WW that he is going to date. Should she remain celibate during that time?

Should Dof2 sleep with his STBX while waiting for the divorce to go through?

In his first post he remarked that their sex life was "okay" but he always initiated. Maybe she would be more interested now. But how long would it last?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

LongWalk said:


> In other words, he would tell WW that he is going to date. Should she remain celibate during that time?
> 
> Should Dof2 sleep with his STBX while waiting for the divorce to go through?
> 
> In his first post he remarked that their sex life was "okay" but he always initiated. Maybe she would be more interested now. But how long would it last?


They're not a couple so I'm not sure why he would tell her he's going to date. I wouldn't hide it, but I don't think she deserves warning or anything like that. 

If he doesn't have anyone else that he's pledged to be faithful to I don't see any reason not to accept her sexual advances. I don't think it's wise to put any effort into getting into her pants though.

I think, realistically, going back to the status quo is the best case he could hope for if he takes her back.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

How important is the timeline of events with you? Do you still need to know how O/M happened (despite if it might be painful to go over?). I guess you wouldn't expect full honesty on her part, but do you believe O/M targeted her, or he just happened to be the "fortunate" one during whatever was going through her mind at the time.


----------



## azteca1986

LongWalk said:


> re: Emptyshelldad's strategy of divorcing and then living together:
> 
> He may have succeeded. Maybe he and his ex are happy as things are. She must pursue him and he sees other women while she may not.
> 
> However, there aren't many examples of divorced couples living together.


So? What about Chris989 (might have got the number wrong), Flood?

Each relationship, each R has to be judged on it's own merits. I could equally doom monger and just say that this is just another Road Scholar in it's infancy. 

Dad has to demand real action's, signs that his fWW is willing to torpedo her own carefully crafted public image, as a sign that she truly gets the enormity of what she's done. An R based on rugsweeping never works does it?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I like that terminology... torpedo the image...

strips it down to authentic humility

I have to agree


----------



## GusPolinski

azteca1986 said:


> So? What about Chris989 (might have got the number wrong), *Flood*?
> 
> Each relationship, each R has to be judged on it's own merits. I could equally doom monger and just say that this is just another Road Scholar in it's infancy.
> 
> Dad has to demand real action's, signs that his fWW is willing to torpedo her own carefully crafted public image, as a sign that she truly gets the enormity of what she's done. An R based on rugsweeping never works does it?


It's Chris989... you got that one correct.

As for TheFlood117, he'll have to correct me if I'm wrong here, but IIRC, his current relationship w/ his ex-wife doesn't go at all beyond her having a "spot in the rotation".


----------



## LongWalk

I am not saying it is impossible to divorce and build a new relationship. Zillard is sleeping with his ex. It happens. All I am asking is, just how common is it?

A betrayed spouse who sleeps with their wayward ex has no obligation to remarry them. Divorce means that there is no expectation of fidelity. If a dating couple want to negotiated exclusivity, that is their business. If the ex betrayed spouse wants to date while holding the ex wayward to exclusivity, the relationship is based on inequality.

I suggested to Dof2 that he bring up the question of a revenge affair to his wife in MC.


----------



## azteca1986

From Flood's point of view that's the way he wants it. From hers, it's no better than she deserves. Both Flood and Chris have their relationships on their own terms.



> She did mention last night that she is considering talking to the principal at her school. She says she is afraid that everything will be made public.


That's a consequence of her affair and a condition of R. She didn't hide her affair. By her own account, she conducted her affair with the full knowledge of her toxic, enabling colleagues. 

The deceit, the protection of her image is still affair thinking. She's still going to work and meeting her AP. How did it really end? She claims that having spent the summer happily blending families,then the OM wanted more 'commitment'. Just does not compute. A question for MC.

Today she is a cheater. She has to show by her actions; approaching her principal and torching the OM despite the hit to her reputation, telling her parents and everyone of importance about the bogus RO, which will go toward showing dadof2 that she's remorseful. She has to face the fact she did some despicable things. And when she does, then they can both say "That's the person you used to be". 

I truly want this family to 'make it'. As a father I'm well aware of the benefit of raising children with two loving parents. To get to that happy outcome one day, there's the very hard road of non-rugseeping R to be travelled. And I'm not advocating he divorce her. I'm consistent. She's divorcing him, remember?


----------



## LongWalk

dadof2 said:


> Well after a week or so of NC by me, STBX came over last night after the kids went to bed. She was broken down crying saying she knows she messed up and all she wants is for us to be together again. *She took the initiative. Good.
> 
> *She made a similar phone call earlier in the week and I stayed distant. She came over and acknowledged her mistakes and said that she knows that I don't owe her anything.
> 
> *Mistakes suggests intentions that did not pan out. For the most part she made choices that did not deliver the expected results. You should ask her which of her decisions, for example, letting OM into her pants, were mistakes and which were choices.*
> 
> She said that I am the one that she wants and that she was very hurt and confused and thought the only way out was divorce.
> 
> *Wants as a lover or the same husband that she cheated on? She was very hurt by what? Confused? By being infatuated by OM. Divorce was necessary to get rid of you.*
> 
> I explained to her that she had many options other than the route she took and she said she knows that. She offered to change jobs at the end of the year to get away from OM.
> 
> *In MC you might ask her how much time she has thought about a third man, an alternative to OM and you? Some new relationship that would solve her problems. She may not have but it is not uncommon for us to wish for magical solutions.*
> 
> I told her that I have 0 trust in her right now and that takes time to get back. *You have more than zero trust in her, otherwise you would not even have let her discuss her desire for R. You would simply break off the conversation as absurd or laugh in amusement. Clearly you are willing to believe in her. But you are not the sort of person who thinks ill of people. This does not mean you are naive. In fact, believing in people sometimes pays dividends. Treat a scoundrel with respect and he will sometime act decently because it appeals to his desire to be respectable and liked if possible. *
> 
> She said she understands that and is more than willing to be accountable at all times. I said, "Then I need to see your phone right now." She let me look and there was no texts or calls to OM, and there were a few between her and one of her toxic friends back in August about doing something together with friend's husband and OM.
> 
> *The affair started in May. Where were the records for April, May, June and July?*
> 
> She said that is the last time she has seen him outside of work. I checked her FB page and she has blocked OM, as well as blocked his number from contacting her phone. She had an email set up on her phone and it was clean. She had no advance warning that I was going to ask, so I do feel a level of comfort to believe that it is over with OM.
> 
> *If there were no Facebook messages from OM, she deleted them. If someone is unfriended, what happens to the old messages? They are saved, in fact.*
> 
> I told her that I really don't know what I want. I said that a lot has already been done and that we can never get back to how it was when we first married. She understood that. She also brought up that we had problems in our marriage before the infidelity, and I agreed. I told her that she did not let us start to work on those problems because she ran off so quick and filed the RO. She said she filed the RO because her friends at work told her it was easy for a woman to file it and it would give her space from me. I told her that it was a huge deal to me and not something I would forget. She apologized for that.
> 
> *She put the blame on others. Ask her how relieved she felt by the RO. When you asked for a reciprocal RO, she immediately got her lawyer to drop both ROs. That was good. That was action on her part. Praise for this. *
> 
> I feel like her apologies are sincere and that she is taking ownership of what she has done. Now I have the tough task of deciding if I want to start a relationship back with her. I honestly don't know. And I told her that. *It could be great, but it could also just be a temporary high that lasts until she gets bored and finds another OM. I told her I can't go through this again. You said that to her? Great?
> 
> Did she have any reply?*
> 
> We did decide to schedule a MC appointment, and I am calling today to line that up. I think that is a safe place for us to talk, and I feel like I have rebuffed her enough and she has stayed persistent so I am comfortable seeing what she says in MC.
> 
> I have mixed emotions about all of this. She said that a switch went off in her head about 2 weeks ago that she wants to be back with me. She said she will spend the rest of her life trying to make it up to me. I told her I appreciate that but I am very skeptical of anything she says right now.
> 
> *There is a reconciliation thread on TAM. Mrs Matthias, a former WW, is struggling hard there.
> 
> One of the difficulties is that a former WW has to be sexually more interested in her BS at a higher level than before the affair. Otherwise how else is she going to make it up to him. But you don't want duty sex. How can she even say what she thinks she'll feel for you in the future.*


When you said good night, did you hug or kiss her?


----------



## just got it 55

Public apology

55


----------



## Squeakr

dadof2 said:


> She says she is afraid that everything will be made public. She said she realizes she made this mess and has to live with the consequences.


Then she has to accept whatever consequences that would be to include public exposure, shame, and humiliation. 

She is still making this all about here. What about you and the embarrassment of having a RO on file for all the public to see. This is something that can be searched and found out about and could follow you, as it exists in the police blotters. Talk about being made public, she had no issue with that occurring for you and she initiated it. She needs to make amends for this heinous action.


----------



## convert

Squeakr said:


> Then she has to accept whatever consequences that would be to include public exposure, shame, and humiliation.
> 
> She is still making this all about here. What about you and the embarrassment of having a RO on file for all the public to see. This is something that can be searched and found out about and could follow you, as it exists in the police blotters. Talk about being made public, she had no issue with that occurring for you and she initiated it. She needs to make amends for this heinous action.


:iagree:


----------



## turnera

I agree. It's still all about her. At this point, if she was REALLY remorseful, she'd be asking YOU what has to be done, and she'll do it. That INCLUDES making it as public as you need, and she would be willing to do it, to get you back. Perhaps it's a case of you not really speaking up about any strenuous requirements?


----------



## LongWalk

Someone posted an interesting link to an article about the lizard brain within us that never sleeps. It only knows fight, flight, freeze and submission. The RO was a classic freeze or flight move. Now that she is thinking with her cortex things are different.

Are we ever in love with the most primitive part of our partner's brain?


----------



## Ripper

I fear if you jump into reconciliation with the way things currently are, you will be overwhelmed with resentment and rage inside 5 years. She hasn't had any consequences. None.

She betrayed you and your family, smeared your name to everyone she knew, took legal action against you, and slept with another man. Put her on ice for awhile. If she is truly remorseful and realizes the gravity of what she did, she will wait. Meet other women, you don't necessarily have to get sexual, just explore what else is out there and disconnect from your (should be ex) wife for a time.

Once you step away from her dysfunction, your whole reality will change. I can guarantee this, with her new list of accolades, you can absolutely do better.


----------



## turnera

LongWalk said:


> Someone posted an interesting link to an article about the lizard brain within us that never sleeps. It only knows fight, flight, freeze and submission. The RO was a classic freeze or flight move. Now that she is thinking with her cortex things are different.
> 
> Are we ever in love with the most primitive part of our partner's brain?


Safety and The Lizard: The Essay | Al Turtle's Relationship Wisdom


----------



## SF-FAN

turnera said:


> Money? Stability? To save face? Convenience? Help with the kids? Better vacations? Easy sex?


And have to sneak around (knowing she will be under the microscope) when she has her freedom to do whatever she wants right now? Who gives up their freedom to have to sneak around?


----------



## SF-FAN

turnera said:


> I agree. It's still all about her. At this point, if she was REALLY remorseful, she'd be asking YOU what has to be done, and she'll do it. That INCLUDES making it as public as you need, and she would be willing to do it, to get you back. Perhaps it's a case of you not really speaking up about any strenuous requirements?


WRONG! If I were in a cheater's shoes and wanted to get my wife back, I'd try hard BUT I would NOT want to make it public. As a community member, business person, whatever, it can be detrimental not only to you but to your kids and to your livelihood. Don't get me wrong, don't let her rug sweep either but the public at large doesn't need to know about it.


----------



## Squeakr

SF-FAN said:


> WRONG! If I were in a cheater's shoes and wanted to get my wife back, I'd try hard BUT I would NOT want to make it public. As a community member, business person, whatever, it can be detrimental not only to you but to your kids and to your livelihood. Don't get me wrong, don't let her rug sweep either but the public at large doesn't need to know about it.


I see your point, but that would be the sign or a WS that was still not fully remorseful and willing to dii whatever. If you truly wanted your M back and valued your spouse above all, it would be a price you'd be willing to pay. Even though it would be embarrassing, that would die down over time and more than likely disappear with relocation.

Who'd really care what the public thought if you were with the one you truly loved and adored. Public opinion doesn't mean squat when it all comes down to it. Everyone has made a mistake in their time. I would definitely call for public notification of sorts since it was such a large part of her operating procedure when doing it (i.e. public shaming him and even defaming and getting the legal authorities involved). Funny how the shame issue doesn't seem so big when sneaking around, hiding it, lying, and cheating, but make it known and it is the end of the world?? Heck no it is consequences. 

I would possibly overlook the public out coming if the WS were trying to keep it hidden, but when they are seen in public holding hands and carrying out without concern or shame (such as my STBXW did and his did with the yoga and babysitting, etc), why should they now be allowed to hide it?? Is it no less shameful to the family and kids, when they are cheating and in the A (as they walk around like no one cares) than it is to admit it after they are caught (like all of the sudden people now take notice and care)? The BS suffering humiliation and career/ community shaming is no big deal, but it is for the WS?? Why the double standard??

At least when admitting it publicly, they are showing character and teaching the kids that choices have consequences, good or bad, instead of lying and cheating has no consequences and you get to have your fun at others expense.


----------



## turnera

SF-FAN said:


> WRONG! If I were in a cheater's shoes and wanted to get my wife back, I'd try hard BUT I would NOT want to make it public. As a community member, business person, whatever, it can be detrimental not only to you but to your kids and to your livelihood. Don't get me wrong, don't let her rug sweep either but the public at large doesn't need to know about it.


Of course the cheater wouldn't want it to be public. But it shouldn't be UP to the cheater, now should it? And I'm not talking about taking out an ad. I'm talking about talking to family members and friends and anyone else who can help hold her accountable in case she slips and gets careless again. If she were truly remorseful and humble, she would welcome the help.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> Of course the cheater wouldn't want it to be public. But it shouldn't be UP to the cheater, now should it? And I'm not talking about taking out an ad. I'm talking about talking to family members and friends and anyone else who can help hold her accountable in case she slips and gets careless again. If she were truly remorseful and humble, she would welcome the help.


Reasonable accountability:smthumbup:


----------



## bandit.45

Even if she does go public, even if she makes the grand gesture, does she have the sand in her to do the hard work to heal Dad's broken heart and paste her marriage back together?

I don't think so given what we have seen from her so far. 

Dad needs to judge her by her actions, not her words. Given the heinousness of what she did, she should be groveling.


----------



## LongWalk

If a BS wants privacy, that is legitimate. However, Dof2's wife could not have kept this secret at school. Her toxic friends egged her on in the affair. Some of them have surely gossiped about her separation, divorce, etc.

There may even be friends who advised her to save her marriage.


----------



## jim123

dadof2 said:


> I appreciate the feedback. She did mention last night that she is considering talking to the principal at her school. She says she is afraid that everything will be made public. She said she realizes she made this mess and has to live with the consequences. I told her we didn't need the job and she could quit tomorrow. She said she has thought about that as well.
> 
> I feel like she is waking up, and I feel like the 180 has been my strength through all of this. At first I was doing it for her, but then I realized I needed to do it for myself so I can detach and put our relationship away. It is an amazing thing that as soon as I started doing things for myself, she immediately reacted. My advice to anyone in my shoes as a BS- 180 hard!! and do it for yourself!! And as many say on here, fake it until you make it!!


Do not stop doing the 180. You stand up for an week then she comes in and gets control right back.

She still has done nothing. Did not stop the D. Did not move back. Got you back to MC and drop your plans to move on.

She went back to her house and will be back out with the friends that hate you do much. Big win for her. She gave up nothing and got you back where she wants you in case she does not find anyone else.


----------



## Archangel2

dadof2 said:


> In this case it just adds to the depth that STBX has sunk in her life. Leaving a nice house with no mortgage and a good school district to where she is now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


dadof2 - Please be careful. She may have realized that she gave up the good life to be with the OM. Maybe this explains why she dumped him because he wanted to get serious.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Archangel2 said:


> dadof2 - Please be careful. She may have realized that she gave up the good life to be with the OM. *Maybe this explains why she dumped him because he wanted to get serious.*


Don't be so sure that it was her that dumped him. As far as I know, he only has her word to go on about her, dumping him.

And we know what her word is worth right now.


----------



## 3putt

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Don't be so sure that it was her that dumped him. As far as I know, he only has her word to go on about her, dumping him.
> 
> And we know what her word is worth right now.


That's been my thought process from the beginning, even though I didn't post it.

That 'in person' phone call seemed a little too pat for me.


----------



## BWBill

The whole she dumped the OM because he got too serious is laughable.

- She carried on an affair with him
- She left her husband for him 
- She got an RO to keep her husband away so they could carry on without interruption
- She played stepmother to his kids for the summer


They were preparing for a life together. It doesn't get much more serious, and she was all in.


----------



## tom67

BWBill said:


> The whole she dumped the OM because he got too serious is laughable.
> 
> - She carried on an affair with him
> - She left her husband for him
> - She got an RO to keep her husband away so they could carry on without interruption
> - She played stepmother to his kids for the summer
> 
> 
> They were preparing for a life together. It doesn't get much more serious, and she was all in.


All true plus what the heck made her go off the deep end so fast?
Toxic teacher friends but geez this was brutal.


----------



## Chaparral

BWBill said:


> The whole she dumped the OM because he got too serious is laughable.
> 
> - She carried on an affair with him
> - She left her husband for him
> - She got an RO to keep her husband away so they could carry on without interruption
> - She played stepmother to his kids for the summer
> 
> 
> They were preparing for a life together. It doesn't get much more serious, and she was all in.


One or more of these would actually be a reason to dump him. I expect at least three of them and probably four as I suspect he was the main instigator of the RO. My guess he is one of the teachers, if not the only one that gave her advice to get the RO. As cheating goes it was a no brainer to get her to do that I'm guessing.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> One or more of these would actually be a reason to dump him. I expect at least three of them and probably four as I suspect he was the main instigator of the RO. My guess he is one of the teachers, if not the only one that gave her advice to get the RO. As cheating goes it was a no brainer to get her to do that I'm guessing.


All the more reason to put his @ss up on cheaterville.
And send the link to the wife and see her reaction.


----------



## Augusto

Archangel2 said:


> dadof2 - Please be careful. She may have realized that she gave up the good life to be with the OM. Maybe this explains why she dumped him because he wanted to get serious.


SCREW BEING CAREFUL!! Was his STBXW "careful" for him and their children? Was she careful in looking after her husbands heart? She was careful to lie to him and her family. She was careful to plan a strategic "I'm a victim" act to get an RO. 

He should be careful to not get tricked into her lies.


----------



## tom67

Augusto said:


> SCREW BEING CAREFUL!! Was his STBXW "careful" for him and their children? Was she careful in looking after her husbands heart? She was careful to lie to him and her family. She was careful to plan a strategic "I'm a victim" act to get an RO.
> 
> He should be careful to not get tricked into her lies.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
You can be civil but it is time to look out for only dof2 and the kids.


----------



## happyman64

Dof2 is being careful and cautious.

He acknowledges how hurtful her actions were to him.

I think he is observing his wife to ascertain if her remorse is genuine. I also think he is gauging how deep her remorse is.

What I think is truly frustrating for Dof2 is comprehending how his wife of a few years with 2 young children could move so quickly from affair to separation to RO to playing house with OM to breakup with OM to Reconciliation with him.

He is trying to gauge her mental state. She has known issues that she takes medication for.

She packed a real wallop into such a short punch.

Keep supporting Dof2. He is listening.

HM


----------



## wmn1

Augusto said:


> SCREW BEING CAREFUL!! Was his STBXW "careful" for him and their children? Was she careful in looking after her husbands heart? She was careful to lie to him and her family. She was careful to plan a strategic "I'm a victim" act to get an RO.
> 
> He should be careful to not get tricked into her lies.


I agree Augusto. Abusing the process to get an RO to conduct an affair is not only a deal breaker, but that is a NC forever unless having business dealings regarding the kids. I work in the field and I see this happen often. It drains law enforcement's efforts to fight real crime and it creates a lack of trust and has the resp. walking on egg shells for years if not forever. Dadof2 has his reasons for R or D but I couldn't do R after that personally


----------



## NotLikeYou

bandit.45 said:


> Even if she does go public, even if she makes the grand gesture, does she have the sand in her to do the hard work to heal Dad's broken heart and paste her marriage back together?
> 
> I don't think so given what we have seen from her so far.
> 
> Dad needs to judge her by her actions, not her words. Given the heinousness of what she did, she should be groveling.


bandit.45, these are good questions, but I don't think they are applicable.

OP is already telling her to quit her job to avoid the shame. And its not his heart that's broken, here, it's his ego. She says she's ready to come back. He's ready to take her back, and all the bad behavior over the months on her part becomes water under the bridge.

So maybe she could do the heavy lifting, maybe she couldn't, but she won't have to either way.

Were OP to judge her by her actions, it would be case closed and verdict rendered. You might be able to recover from playing hide the sausage with another person, but when you have such utter contempt for a spouse that you file a false RO, well, anyone with a room temperature IQ would recognize that this puts you in jeopardy with the legal system for no reason.

Right now, all OP wants is his wife back. He is prepared to rug sweep as much of the affair as he can, move away from everyone who might know about it, and probably sever old friendships to cauterize the situation.

He lacks the foresight to see where he'll be in a couple of years.

He'll be somewhere else, physically. Mentally, he won't forget all this, no matter how hard he tries. Repression doesn't usually work, so the most likely result will be a pot full of resentment, boiling over.

Or maybe his ego and sense of self-worth will stay firmly stunted. Unable to effectively demand decent treatment from his wife, well, let's face it, there are cute coaches at every school......

The only thing that can be said with certainty is that OP will have EXACTLY the wife he deserves.


----------



## Chaparral

Rehab would be a must before any commitment is made. Individual counseling too. No idea what broke her but she is definitely broken. Its sad to see someone searching for relief and destroying their lives and others along with them.

The times we have seen someone with personal issues cheat here is pretty much nearing infinity


----------



## helolover

wmn1 said:


> I agree Augusto. Abusing the process to get an RO to conduct an affair is not only a deal breaker, but that is a NC forever unless having business dealings regarding the kids. I work in the field and I see this happen often. It drains law enforcement's efforts to fight real crime and it creates a lack of trust and has the resp. walking on egg shells for years if not forever. Dadof2 has his reasons for R or D but I couldn't do R after that personally


It drains resources, but yet the family courts sign ROs without question or evidence - taking away a man's children and home. 

Frivorce theft.


----------



## LongWalk

You are right, Chap. In fact, Dof2 has already remarked that one consideration that has him thinking of R is to prevent his children from living with a woman who goes from one failed relationship to the next.

But people with troubles can survive with the help of a more stable spouse. Does Dof2 have the strength? Is it worth it? After all one good family 50% of the time may be better than the messed family 100%. But the future is not written in stone.


----------



## Ripper

NotLikeYou said:


> He'll be somewhere else, physically. Mentally, he won't forget all this, no matter how hard he tries. Repression doesn't usually work, so the most likely result will be a pot full of resentment, boiling over.
> 
> Or maybe his ego and sense of self-worth will stay firmly stunted. Unable to effectively demand decent treatment from his wife, well, let's face it, there are cute coaches at every school......
> 
> The only thing that can be said with certainty is that OP will have EXACTLY the wife he deserves.


In my opinion, this whole post was gold. 

I can't understand how people overlook the most egregious of insults/injuries just for scraps of attention from the person who inflicted them.


----------



## bandit.45

Ripper said:


> In my opinion, this whole post was gold.
> 
> I can't understand how people overlook the most egregious of insults/injuries just for scraps of attention from the person who inflicted them.


Because, deep down in the well of their souls, they think they do not deserve any better. 

Dad's issue is not that he has a bad wife picker, the problem is he has no self esteem.


----------



## wmn1

helolover said:


> It drains resources, but yet the family courts sign ROs without question or evidence - taking away a man's children and home.
> 
> Frivorce theft.




I agree. I see it all the time. The orders here in Maryland are almost automatic. And if a guy disputes the claims, he gets run over roughshod and the order gets signed anyway. It deprives someone of their home, kids and keeps them exposed to criminal penalties without much support.


----------



## wmn1

bandit.45 said:


> Because, deep down in the well of their souls, they think they do not deserve any better.
> 
> Dad's issue is not that he has a bad wife picker, the problem is he has no self esteem.



He'll get hurt again and again, it's sad but it's his choice. I have known people in similar situations who got D and came out much better off. I know someone who is in a constant R cycle that doesn't break.


----------



## dadof2

Thanks for the posts guys, I am not on much on the weekends so I have been reading through your posts since my last login.

I am very cautious about moving towards any R with STBX. I agree that she has done terrible things and no matter what she does in the future to make amends, that what has already been done may be too much to live with. Right now I am taking it one day at a time, we went to MC last week and STBX has been showing more and more remorse. She read the book "How to Help Your Spouse Deal with Your Affair." She said that a lot of things in there hit home to her. I asked to see her phone in counseling and she gave it to me as well as her email/facebook passwords. Everything came back clean. Of course I know she could have wiped out anything incriminating and probably did. But I have the passwords now for future verification and I can get the PI back on her in a moment's notice. Right now I am not that far in to even worry about it.

I am still in IC for myself, because no matter which way this goes, I feel like I have come a long way personally and I honestly don't know if I want to subject myself to living with being suspicious all the time. I will say that us having 2 kids together really clouds this whole picture.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

That suspicious feeling will follow you to any relationship in the future whether it is her or not. That injury to your psyche will not discriminate.


----------



## convert

Blossom Leigh said:


> That suspicious feeling will follow you to any relationship in the future whether it is her or not. That injury to your psyche will not discriminate.


That is so true......so so very true


----------



## Nucking Futs

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for the posts guys, I am not on much on the weekends so I have been reading through your posts since my last login.
> 
> I am very cautious about moving towards any R with STBX. I agree that she has done terrible things and no matter what she does in the future to make amends, that what has already been done may be too much to live with. Right now I am taking it one day at a time, we went to MC last week and STBX has been showing more and more remorse. She read the book "How to Help Your Spouse Deal with Your Affair." She said that a lot of things in there hit home to her. I asked to see her phone in counseling and she gave it to me as well as her email/facebook passwords. Everything came back clean. Of course I know she could have wiped out anything incriminating and probably did. But I have the passwords now for future verification and I can get the PI back on her in a moment's notice. Right now I am not that far in to even worry about it.
> 
> I am still in IC for myself, because no matter which way this goes, I feel like I have come a long way personally and I honestly don't know if I want to subject myself to living with being suspicious all the time. I will say that us having 2 kids together really clouds this whole picture.


Thanks for the update. Has the issue of the RO been brought up in MC yet? For that matter, is it actually an issue for you?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for the posts guys, I am not on much on the weekends so I have been reading through your posts since my last login.
> 
> I am very cautious about moving towards any R with STBX. I agree that she has done terrible things and no matter what she does in the future to make amends, that what has already been done may be too much to live with. Right now I am taking it one day at a time, we went to MC last week and STBX has been showing more and more remorse. She read the book "How to Help Your Spouse Deal with Your Affair." She said that a lot of things in there hit home to her. *I asked to see her phone in counseling and she gave it to me as well as her email/facebook passwords. Everything came back clean. Of course I know she could have wiped out anything incriminating and probably did. * But I have the passwords now for future verification and I can get the PI back on her in a moment's notice. Right now I am not that far in to even worry about it.
> 
> I am still in IC for myself, because no matter which way this goes, I feel like I have come a long way personally and I honestly don't know if I want to subject myself to living with being suspicious all the time. I will say that us having 2 kids together really clouds this whole picture.


I said this before and I'll say it again.

If she truly wants to R with you, she'll get you her phone records.

THEN, you can verify if she indeed has not contacted(with this phone anyway) the OM after she first told you she wanted to R and hasn't contacted him.

Ask her for the phone records, just her reaction alone could tell you if she's lying...


----------



## Mr Blunt

Dadof2

Sounds like she is really remorseful. Good start but not enough for now!

Follow through on the divorce because that is a very good insurance policy for you.
She said that she will spend the rest of her life making it up to you so the divorce will be one good test that will determine if her words are real. She has to prove to you for a long time that her weakness is not going to devastate you again.

With the divorce you are now in the driver’s seat. Everything she says (make up to you for the rest of her life) may come true but you should no longer be the one to have the anxiety nor be the one that has to make up for betrayal. This is not being cruel it is adding teeth to accountability. If she is really willing to do everything to make up for what she did she should not balk at this one bit. There are natural consequences for committing the biggest marriage breaker of all time and she has to be willing to take the consequences and do the work.

She will probably be very remorseful and attentive with you for the first year. However, things do change and sometimes go back to how things were after a few years. I assume you want decades of a good relationship if you R. With a D a lot of your worries can be tested. Will she accept her consequences? Will the D be a motivation for her to do the tough stuff for her to get a lot better? She will tested to see if her remorse is for real or just for the first year? You do not trust her so the D test will help you to find the truth and if she passés then your trust will be stronger.

This crises can help you both do what you need to do to make your relationship stronger. She must take her consequences and prove with ACTIONS that she is really remorseful and dedicated to you. You need to do whatever you can improve on so that you are a better husband. I AM NOT SAYING THAT YOUR PRE-AFFAIR DEFICIENCIES CAUSED HER BETRAYAL. I am saying that you can use this crises to correct or improve on your actions as a husband.

Without the D you are the one that is taking the chance and she will not have the additional accountabilty factor to do the tough stuff


----------



## happyman64

> Without the D you are the one that is taking the chance and she will not have the additional accountabilty factor to do the tough stuff


That is not true Blunt.

Any reconciliation with or without a divorce takes a certain amount of what I call a "Leap of Faith".

If the reconciliation is going to be an honest one them both parties have to be in it 110%.

That is the only way it works.

Sure we want the wayward to feel "suffer" consequences. But at some point some of those consequences can hurt the reconciliation.

Dof2 is observing his wife.

And he is also right that the young kids "cloud" the decision to R or D.

They both need time.

Time for his wife to prove she is worthy of his R.

Time for Dof2 to see if his wife's actions have not permanently damaged his love for his wife......


----------



## Nucking Futs

Mr Blunt said:


> Dadof2
> 
> Sounds like she is really remorseful. Good start but not enough for now!
> 
> *Follow through on the divorce* because that is a very good insurance policy for you.
> *She said that she will spend the rest of her life making it up to you so the divorce will be one good test that will determine if her words are real.* She has to prove to you for a long time that her weakness is not going to devastate you again.
> 
> *With the divorce you are now in the driver’s seat. Everything she says (make up to you for the rest of her life) may come true but you should no longer be the one to have the anxiety nor be the one that has to make up for betrayal.* This is not being cruel it is adding teeth to accountability. *If she is really willing to do everything to make up for what she did she should not balk at this one bit.* There are natural consequences for committing the biggest marriage breaker of all time and she has to be willing to take the consequences and do the work.
> 
> She will probably be very remorseful and attentive with you for the first year. However, things do change and sometimes go back to how things were after a few years. I assume you want decades of a good relationship if you R. With a D a lot of your worries can be tested. Will she accept her consequences? Will the D be a motivation for her to do the tough stuff for her to get a lot better? She will tested to see if her remorse is for real or just for the first year? You do not trust her so the D test will help you to find the truth and if she passés then your trust will be stronger.
> 
> This crises can help you both do what you need to do to make your relationship stronger. She must take her consequences and prove with ACTIONS that she is really remorseful and dedicated to you. You need to do whatever you can improve on so that you are a better husband. I AM NOT SAYING THAT YOUR PRE-AFFAIR DEFICIENCIES CAUSED HER BETRAYAL. I am saying that you can use this crises to correct or improve on your actions as a husband.
> 
> Without the D you are the one that is taking the chance and she will not have the additional accountabilty factor to do the tough stuff


There's a lot here about continuing the divorce, and not just in the quoted text. Let me once again remind everyone that _she_ filed the divorce against _him_. It's not up to him to continue the divorce, it's up to her. And so far he's seen talk of remorse in MC but she hasn't recanted the stories of abuse she used to get the RO and more importantly, _she hasn't stopped the divorce._ Call me crazy but I think if I were her and wanted to R stopping the divorce would be the first thing I did.

You know, we harp on actions meaning more than words all the time. In this case we have severely negative actions (moving out, RO, filing divorce). We have negative words early then positive words. What positive actions have we seen? Attending MC? Is that it?

Dof2, is the RO an issue for you? If the subject has come up in C, has she admitted in front of the MC that she lied about the abuse to get it?


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2,

Good to see you back. I figure you mulled over so much advice here that you could advise a new poster rather easily.

When you meet you WW in these emotional situations, e.g., her visit after the children were asleep, and at MC, do you shake hands or hug when you part?

Regarding the divorce in progress, if it is true that she can unilaterally retract the petition, she may not be aware that this is possible. She may assume that it something that is not hers but an official process that both of your must agree to stop. After all nobody bothers learning about family law until confronted with a crumbling marriage in their vicinity.

Sometimes posters advise against meeting the wayward with the children for fear of confusing them into thinking that there is hope that their family will be restored. I am not certain that is true. As long as you do not mislead them about your situation, it may not be bad to interact together.

If you do something together as a family and you get a good vibe from it, you may use that positive feeling to stimulate your WW into action.

Does she say that she loves you? If so, is she convincing?

re: her job at the school
If she quits, it may make your alimony and child support heavier.

re: OM's ex wife
Does she live in your town? Would you consider talking with her?


----------



## tryingpatience

LongWalk said:


> Regarding the divorce in progress, if it is true that she can unilaterally retract the petition, she may not be aware that this is possible. She may assume that it something that is not hers but an official process that both of your must agree to stop. After all nobody bothers learning about family law until confronted with a crumbling marriage in their vicinity.


This could be true. The things like the divorce proceedings and RO may not have even occured to her if she was just following the advise of some toxic friends. She may not even be at the point where she realizes the impact of these actions.

If you get to the point where you do want R I would ask for phone records like groundpounder pointed out. I almost feel like you need more information to make your decision. The more you know the better you'll be off in my opinion. I get that the kids really confuse the situation. But there is more to it than just the kids. There is also you.


----------



## happyman64

Dof2

A little food for thought from a poster on another forum.



> And another thing. I can understand how people feel like "staying for the kids" isn't the right choice. So I want to share my thoughts on it.
> 
> I've often referred to the kids as the "knot at the end of my rope" if not for them, I wouldn't even have considered reconciliation. If it weren't for them, I wouldn't have suffered through the first 2.5 years of utter bull***** and lies, ultimately making it to a place where we could act like adults again . If not for them, I wouldn't be here now, venting my bad days here, so I don't do it when I walk in the door.
> 
> This isn't something you just "get over" or "let go." It's life changing, and takes a long time to get past. And you only get past it if you BOTH feel that way, and work at it. And working at it includes suffering through crappy days ( and sometimes weeks ) like the one I'm in right now. And if it weren't for them, I wouldn't even be trying. Nobody would tell a rape victim to just let it go. And that's sort of what we are. We've been emotionally violated against our will. And you need to find a reason to continue to move forward.
> 
> So... if it works, and our family stays intact, and things improve, I'll be damn glad I "stayed for the kids" because honestly, I can't think of a bette reason to keep trying.


This was his way at looking at his reason to R with his WW.

HM


----------



## harrybrown

Has she gone NC with the OM and transferred to another school?

If not, she really has not started to end the A.


----------



## jr92gp

happyman64 said:


> That is not true Blunt.
> 
> Any reconciliation with or without a divorce takes a certain amount of what I call a "Leap of Faith".
> 
> If the reconciliation is going to be an honest one them both parties have to be in it 110%.
> 
> That is the only way it works.
> 
> Sure we want the wayward to feel "suffer" consequences. But at some point some of those consequences can hurt the reconciliation.
> 
> Dof2 is observing his wife.
> 
> And he is also right that the young kids "cloud" the decision to R or D.
> 
> They both need time.
> 
> Time for his wife to prove she is worthy of his R.
> 
> Time for Dof2 to see if his wife's actions have not permanently damaged his love for his wife......


I completely agree.

Any R is on your terms Dof2. Any R is also on your timeline. Take some time for yourself after seeing your WW to process what you're feeling after each encounter.

Other than IC, what else are you doing for yourself? Reading? Meditating?


----------



## LongWalk

Harry,

Don't you think the goal should be to request that OM transfer or resign?

What sort if assistant principal fvcks a married teacher with two small children?

If Dof2 says to his wife that the two of should make an appointment with the principal to discuss this, that could help. They should go with a lawyer. POSOM used he position to establish a sexual relationship with a subordinate.


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> Harry,
> 
> Don't you think the goal should be to request that OM transfer or resign?
> 
> What sort if assistant principal fvcks a married teacher with two small children?
> 
> If Dof2 says to his wife that the two of should make an appointment with the principal to discuss this, that could help. They should go with a lawyer. POSOM used he position to establish a sexual relationship with a subordinate.


That ship has sailed. He had his chance to lay waste to the guy and pussed out.


----------



## LongWalk

It is late, but too late?

Is it too late to discuss her leaving the school? No. So, it is not too late to discuss him leaving.

Dof2 may not like the idea of her sitting in staff meetings, listening to him make presentations. Dof2 may not like him being responsible for performance evaluations of his former partner in adultery. If, as she claims, she rejected his desire for a "more serious" relationship, will he seek revenge to pay her back for his disappointment?

Also, he may try to just have some no strings attached sex. Dof2 can't feel happy about the contact. I can't remember if it is a grade school, junior high or high school. If is high school, the students will likely be looking at them and saying did you know Mr X screwed Mrs Y.

Dof2's wife said that she was considering speaking with the principal. This is a very positive action on her part. Dof2 should recognize this as positive action.

The after school workout group has been cancelled. Why?

Dof2 has been served a shyte sandwich. I say push the plate to OM so that he can graduate to "piece of shyte sandwich other man".

If the decision to R or not is based on her actions, then Dof2 must want to see them.

Going to MC is action. Good.

Cancelling the divorce. Good (hasn't happened yet).


----------



## tom67

If she doesn't cancel the d after a certain amount of time he HAS to move on.
I and others have said he should be dating others now.
But I am not him.


----------



## warlock07

Blossom Leigh said:


> That suspicious feeling will follow you to any relationship in the future whether it is her or not. That injury to your psyche will not discriminate.


No, it will follow him for a while but it is not guaranteed like it will be for his ex. 

He can deal with baggage if he is going out with new people. He will know that it is something he will have to work on. If it is his ex, it will just mind f*ck him.


----------



## jim123

Nucking Futs said:


> There's a lot here about continuing the divorce, and not just in the quoted text. Let me once again remind everyone that _she_ filed the divorce against _him_. It's not up to him to continue the divorce, it's up to her. And so far he's seen talk of remorse in MC but she hasn't recanted the stories of abuse she used to get the RO and more importantly, _she hasn't stopped the divorce._ Call me crazy but I think if I were her and wanted to R stopping the divorce would be the first thing I did.
> 
> You know, we harp on actions meaning more than words all the time. In this case we have severely negative actions (moving out, RO, filing divorce). We have negative words early then positive words. What positive actions have we seen? Attending MC? Is that it?
> 
> Dof2, is the RO an issue for you? If the subject has come up in C, has she admitted in front of the MC that she lied about the abuse to get it?


Sometimes the action of MC is used to keep control over the BS. I suspect that here. There are no strong actions step.


The D moves forward and she has stopped OP from moving on.

The phone call did not work so she came over. After she still went home and home is not with OP,


----------



## LongWalk

But Dof2 did not let her stay. He is not buying her R request without due diligence.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

warlock07 said:


> No, it will follow him for a while but it is not guaranteed like it will be for his ex.
> 
> He can deal with baggage if he is going out with new people. He will know that it is something he will have to work on. If it is his ex, it will just mind f*ck him.



Depends on him in either situation. Some spouses get over it even with their original WS. Some never get over it even with someone new. My caution was for him to know that injury is deep enough that assuming it will go away with someone new is unrealistic and to not base his decision to leave on it.


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> But Dof2 did not let her stay. He is not buying her R request without due diligence.



And he shouldn't buy her half ass attempts at R in my opinion. He has every right to test her, to hover at 50,000 feet and watch her actions to see of she's really sincere. 

I think it's all an act.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> And he shouldn't buy her half ass attempts at R in my opinion. He has every right to test her, to hover at 50,000 feet and watch her actions to see of she's really sincere.
> 
> I think it's all an act.


I hope you are wrong but we will see in the next few months.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Trust but verify and from a safe zone.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



Blossom Leigh said:


> Trust but verify and from a safe zone.


I don't know that there is a safe zone in this scenario. Bottom line is he would not consider R if he did not hope for it to come true. Just that hope can make for a vicious let down.

That said, I think DO2 is doing this as well as can be expected.


----------



## badmemory

dad,

I can certainly understand that you'd prefer R, and I hope that will work out for you.

But let me bottom line it for you. Due to the egregious nature of your wife's betrayal; she has a large amount of consequences to endure. They've been laid out well by other posters.

If you attempt R, without her receiving and accepting all those consequences; you will eventually regret it. Maybe not immediately - especially if you go through the typical hysterical bonding period, but at some point you will. And those regrets for not testing her remorse adequately will haunt you; even if she "acts" remorseful going forward.


----------



## Jasel

Did she at least expose what she did to your families??? Especially after filing a restraining order against you?? That is pretty ****ed up. I have to agree it doesn't really sound like she's facing any consequences. Please be careful. Like others have said, actions speak louder than words and tears. And if she has co-workers telling her to file an RO against you she needs to quit that job like yesterday.


----------



## LongWalk

:iagree:
There is no safe zone, unless one marries a person of indisputable integrity. Dof2's wife already proved that she is not one of them.

Dof2 can discover her qualities sooner rather than later.

He can review her bank statement to see what she does with her spare time. What does she spend money on? If clothes and alcohol are excessive, that raises questions.

By looking over her bank statements he may even be able to reconstruct a timeline of the affair. He can check to see if there are holes in her story. Holes are trust killers.

He can add her phone call record info to the analysis.

Dof2 can ask her to invite him to dinner when she has the kids. That will give him a chance to see her apartment. Can she make him feel welcome in that space? Did OM bang her there? Maybe that would be a negative trigger. On the other hand he might like to bang her there and claim that space.

The most important thing right now is that Dof2 has to maintain the self assurance that he has gained. He has to be strong enough to examine her closely, maybe even naked in bed, and still be able to see the divorce through in a friendly manner if that is the right decision.

Dof2's wandered to another man. Does she want Dof2 now?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

farsidejunky said:


> I don't know that there is a safe zone in this scenario. Bottom line is he would not consider R if he did not hope for it to come true. Just that hope can make for a vicious let down.
> 
> That said, I think DO2 is doing this as well as can be expected.


He has to create his safe zone... doesn't mean there won't be shots over the bow... but there is an internal emotional area he can create that gives him the greatest safety possible given the circumstances.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



Blossom Leigh said:


> He has to create his safe zone... doesn't mean there won't be shots over the bow... but there is an internal emotional area he can create that gives him the greatest safety possible given the circumstances.


I disagree. Any R in which you are not making yourself completely vulnerable is really just a false R.


----------



## IIJokerII

farsidejunky said:


> I disagree. Any R in which you are not making yourself completely vulnerable is really just a false R.


You can't expect this man to lower his shields for the sake of reconciliation after his very soul was rocked to the core, can you? His wife's tepid inactions are enough of a preemptive to keep them up. If she is willing to perform the necessary tasks and is indeed out of the affair and maybe the fog no one can expect him to utilize faith.

And lest we forget he was vulnerable when SHE had an affair, filed a Restraining order and dragged his name thru the mud at will for her own self satisfaction and cowardice. I can understand that he yearns for the days of yore when life was good and stable, family was united, all prior to her affair. If this woman truly has become aware of her actions then she'll relent to any aspect of safety dof2 feels he NEEDS to employ to fix his family.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



IIJokerII said:


> You can't expect this man to lower his shields for the sake of reconciliation after his very soul was rocked to the core, can you? His wife's tepid inactions are enough of a preemptive to keep them up. If she is willing to perform the necessary tasks and is indeed out of the affair and maybe the fog no one can expect him to utilize faith.
> 
> And lest we forget he was vulnerable when SHE had an affair, filed a Restraining order and dragged his name thru the mud at will for her own self satisfaction and cowardice. I can understand that he yearns for the days of yore when life was good and stable, family was united, all prior to her affair. If this woman truly has become aware of her actions then she'll relent to any aspect of safety dof2 feels he NEEDS to employ to fix his family.


You missed my point. I wasn't suggesting he do anything. Quite frankly I would have been done with her long ago.

What I am suggesting is that there is no shot at true reconciliation (for anyone, including DO2) without making yourself vulnerable. 

Reconciliation is like a boat at the dock that is not tied off. You can only keep a foot on each one for so long before a decision of one or the other has to be made. 

And unlike some posters in here who are on the "dump her @$$" bandwagon, I want what DO2 believes is best for him until he shows he is no longer making sound decisions. Then I will whip out the 2x4.

ETA: If DO2 plays his cards right, he can keep his power and put her in the position of balancing on the dock and the boat, while ever so slowly pulling away. He holds the cards as long as he enforces his boundaries for R.


----------



## badmemory

farsidejunky said:


> What I am suggesting is that there is no shot at true reconciliation (for anyone, including DO2) without making yourself vulnerable.


That's easier said that done farside,

I do agree that there has to be a point where the BS has to let go of the anger, and to start trusting more. But that is a process. It takes years; and I'm not sure that regaining complete trust is even possible. Nor am I sure that it's possible for a BS to be as vulnerable as before the cheating. The sub-conscience prevents it.

That doesn't mean the R can't be successful. *IF* the WS is willing to accept this reality.


----------



## farsidejunky

I am not talking about trust. I am talking about making a decision to risk your heart. Vulnerability. At some point in the process of deciding to R, you have to decide to take a chance. 

Because it is dificult to trust "a little". So a BS reaches a point when they are willing to risk their heart for R or not. And normally when that decision is made, trust is nowhere near rebuilt. Thus the BS makes themselves vulnerable for R.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

He must shield himself behind healthy emotional walls and when she presents herself as safe, in those moments he can allow her to have access to him and each time she is safer longer the longer he can allow her access. He must choose strategic vulnerability, for a while until he knows he no longer needs the strategy.


----------



## LongWalk

True, Blossom, but the devil is in the details. To hug her already makes him vulnerable. He has not revealed whether her tears have led him to physically comfort her.

He has felt attracted to her and she is probably aware if this. He must demonstrate that he will not accept rug sweeping. So far what does he know about the affair? 

Relatively little.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Absolutely.. part of the strategic vulnerability INCLUDES the accountability you are saying.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Until she can demonstrate her new growth into choosing constructive behaviors and not destructive behaviors... he must navigate strategically until she is more consistent.

He also must outline what is acceptable and unacceptable.

She will have to accept that limited access is because of her poor choices in the past and that the reigns on access loosen as better choices are maintained. She forfeited full access by her poor choices. 

She regains it by better choices.


----------



## LongWalk

What are they? These choices?

Dof2, what do you want your WW to do?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I think they are in the area of constructive boundary choices vs destructive boundary choices and finding out why she chose a destructive choice to "cope." So counseling for her is a must, if it were me in his shoes.

I also see the need to explore constructive attitudes vs destructive attitudes. This can show up in attitudes/behaviors that build up the relationship authentically, like transparency, honesty, humility, respectful dignified communication Vs. attitudes/behaviors that tear down a relationship dishonesty, lack of transparency, denial, arrogance, abuse, affairs, addictions, etc. 

There are other areas but these are examples. This is how detailed I had to get in my home and in my mind. I decided constructive was acceptable and destructive was not... Not only in him, but in myself.


----------



## bandit.45

Blossom Leigh said:


> Until she can demonstrate her new growth into choosing constructive behaviors and not destructive behaviors... he must navigate strategically until she is more consistent.
> 
> He also must outline what is acceptable and unacceptable.
> 
> She will have to accept that limited access is because of her poor choices in the past and that the reigns on access loosen as better choices are maintained. She forfeited full access by her poor choices.
> 
> She regains it by better choices.


But that is a long process. What Dad needs to realize is that it could take years for her to get to a place where she is making good choices. She has a hell of a lot of work to do. 

I asked it before and I'll ask again: does she have the resolve to put forth a Herculean effort over the next three to five years to change her stinkin' thinkin'? Does Dad have the patience and resolve to change what he needs to about himself? Does he have the patience to wait for her to get her act together.? 

What if in this interim time he decides he deserves better and moves on to another woman and another life. His wife has to be wondering this herself. 

Unless they both make the long term commitment, this plane can't even begin to take off the ground. I don't think she's up for it. I don't think she has the wherewithal. I think she will bide her time until another likely lad comes along who will be willing to put up with her sh!t and Dad will be right back where he started.


----------



## warlock07

Blossom Leigh said:


> Depends on him in either situation. Some spouses get over it even with their original WS. Some never get over it even with someone new. My caution was for him to know that injury is deep enough that assuming it will go away with someone new is unrealistic and to not base his decision to leave on it.


You think there are equal chances of the next person doing the same things as his ex did ? 

Yes, being with a new person does not guarantee that the pain will go away. But it is not a 50-50 thing. 

If I had to bet on a much happier scenario, I would bet on anything but him staying with his ex, whether single or with other people. The woman is simply toxic. 

BL, do you think he should R ? Some of your posts almost seem to be trying to guilt trip him into R.


----------



## bandit.45

Blossom Leigh said:


> Until she can demonstrate her new growth into choosing constructive behaviors and not destructive behaviors... he must navigate strategically until she is more consistent.
> 
> He also must outline what is acceptable and unacceptable.
> 
> She will have to accept that limited access is because of her poor choices in the past and that the reigns on access loosen as better choices are maintained. She forfeited full access by her poor choices.
> 
> She regains it by better choices.





Blossom Leigh said:


> I think they are in the area of constructive boundary choices vs destructive boundary choices and finding out why she chose a destructive choice to "cope." So counseling for her is a must, if it were me in his shoes.
> 
> I also see the need to explore constructive attitudes vs destructive attitudes. This can show up in attitudes/behaviors that build up the relationship authentically, like transparency, honesty, humility, respectful dignified communication Vs. attitudes/behaviors that tear down a relationship dishonesty, lack of transparency, denial, arrogance, abuse, affairs, addictions, etc.
> 
> There are other areas but these are examples. This is how detailed I had to get in my home and in my mind. I decided constructive was acceptable and destructive was not... Not only in him, but in myself.


I disagree. I think she is in the "how can I get through this inconvenience as quickly as possible and get my husband to get off my back and go back to the way things were?" area.....

Of course a Dad won't talk to us so we're just guessing.


----------



## warlock07

`I think TAM is just confusing him. 

I can guess what will happen now. The more he starts checking her stuff, the more and more she loses respect for him. After all, they were her reasons to separate from him in the first place. Then when he starts with the requirement list of what he needs her to do(which will be very invasive because of her level of infidelity), she probably will accept it for a few day. The more normal it becomes, the more she will resent him for the control he will have over her life. One day, some small situation will escalate and the situation will end up in the sh!tter.


----------



## IIJokerII

farsidejunky said:


> I am not talking about trust. I am talking about making a decision to risk your heart. Vulnerability. At some point in the process of deciding to R, you have to decide to take a chance.
> 
> Because it is dificult to trust "a little". So a BS reaches a point when they are willing to risk their heart for R or not. And normally when that decision is made, trust is nowhere near rebuilt. Thus the BS makes themselves vulnerable for R.


He is risking his heart vs . having peace of mind. Dof2 is willing to reenter the foray knowing full well what his wife is capable of, a very courages effort I might add. I dare you to find one person who entered a relationship knowing a high risk for betrayal exists. We all begin with clean slate of trust so this vulnerability you suggest is present in the begining. One day, after years of effort on her part he will be free of the past wounds sustained that crippled his character, but we all know the scars will remain.


----------



## bandit.45

warlock07 said:


> `I think TAM is just confusing him.
> 
> I can guess what will happen now. The more he starts checking her stuff, the more and more she loses respect for him. After all, they were her reasons to separate from him in the first place. Then when he starts with the requirement list of what he needs her to do(which will be very invasive because of her level of infidelity), she probably will accept it for a few day. The more normal it becomes, the more she will resent him for the control he will have over her life. One day, some small situation will escalate and the situation will end up in the sh!tter.


I think this is the best case scenario.


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2 probably loves and hates TAM. He knows that there people who are rooting for him, but some of the advice is conflicting. Some is too shrill. He is also a nice guy in the good sense of the word. He is loath to give up on his marriage, not only for his kids, but because he pities his wife at some level. She is not a calculating person. But he was attracted to her impulsive personality.

Perhaps he chased her hard, finding her an alluring mixture of warmth, flirtatiousness and spontaneity. Now he sees that the warmth is too unguarded, the flirtatiousness is too unreserved and the liveliness too unfocused. The positive aspects still exist but without character and integrity, does he want to spend his life with her?

He cannot give her sound judgment or principles. However, he is an example to her. Controlling an impulsive person who refuses to learn from their mistakes is a joyless task. It that is what R means, he ought to skip it.

Is she a basically decent person who got bored with her nice guy husband? She must have issues from childhood that require therapy. Does he want to see her though the months/years it will take for her to fix herself?

Dof2 said that R would be a real high for a period of time, but if it failed it would open up a new world of hurt. So, he wonders whether it would be better to avoid the risk, since he has achieved an hard-earned level of detachment.

But if he wants to entertain the idea of R, it will never be risk free. He has to give his WW some sort of hope, otherwise she has nothing to work for. Hope cannot be just the word maybe. They have to do things together. Date or something.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

bandit.45 said:


> But that is a long process. What Dad needs to realize is that it could take years for her to get to a place where she is making good choices. She has a hell of a lot of work to do.
> 
> I asked it before and I'll ask again: does she have the resolve to put forth a Herculean effort over the next three to five years to change her stinkin' thinkin'? Does Dad have the patience and resolve to change what he needs to about himself? Does he have the patience to wait for her to get her act together.?
> 
> What if in this interim time he decides he deserves better and moves on to another woman and another life. His wife has to be wondering this herself.
> 
> Unless they both make the long term commitment, this plane can't even begin to take off the ground. I don't think she's up for it. I don't think she has the wherewithal. I think she will bide her time until another likely lad comes along who will be willing to put up with her sh!t and Dad will be right back where he started.


You are 100% correct. I've said many times on TAM, R is not for the faint of heart.


----------



## bandit.45

I wish I could reach through the internet and snatch those love goggles of Dads face. So he can see her the way we do.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

warlock07 said:


> You think there are equal chances of the next person doing the same things as his ex did ?
> 
> Yes, being with a new person does not guarantee that the pain will go away. But it is not a 50-50 thing.
> 
> If I had to bet on a much happier scenario, I would bet on anything but him staying with his ex, whether single or with other people. The woman is simply toxic.
> 
> BL, do you think he should R ? Some of your posts almost seem to be trying to guilt trip him into R.


My post are centered on emotional sobriety. Heavy realism. It is just reality that no relationship brings guaratees. He probably thought he was picking the best with her and it ran off the rails. The next one can run off the rails. I am a believer that many times the best fix is in the current relationship. Guilt, no. Realism, yes.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

She is choosing toxic behaviors. 

If she possesses the capacity to learn and the willingness to grow then SHE can choose non toxic behaviors.

If she doesnt possess the capacity OR willingness, then yes, SHE's toxic.


----------



## Chaparral

Way to much speculation for a forum to be helpful. Its just chatter.

In working on yourself dad, get the two books linked to below, especially the relationship guide that isn't politically correct, MMSLP. Its biologically correct though. The other book is top notch too.

Good luck, we have seen much worse here that made it through to the other side.


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## Chaparral

Has the marriage counselor given the two of you things to work on? Beware of mc. If its not a good fit, do not be afraid to mov on to another counselor.


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## GusPolinski

Waaaaay too much speculation going on here. Let's back up a bit and give Dadof2 some breathing room.


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## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Waaaaay too much speculation going on here. Let's back up a bit and give Dadof2 some breathing room.


:iagree:
He has time
Rolling Stones Time Is On My Side - YouTube
He will come back.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Blunt
> Without the D you are the one that is taking the chance and she will not have the additional accountability factor to do the tough stuff
> 
> *By HappyMan*
> That is not true Blunt.
> Any reconciliation with or without a divorce takes a certain amount of what I call a "Leap of Faith".
> 
> If the reconciliation is going to be an honest one them both parties have to be in it 110%.
> That is the only way it works.
> 
> Sure we want the wayward to feel "suffer" consequences. But at some point some of those consequences can hurt the reconciliation.
> 
> 
> 
> Dof2 is observing his wife.
> And he is also right that the young kids "cloud" the decision to R or D.
> 
> They both need time.
> 
> Time for his wife to prove she is worthy of his R.
> 
> Time for Dof2 to see if his wife's actions have not permanently damaged his love for his wife......



By HappyMan
That is not true Blunt.
Any reconciliation with or without a divorce takes a certain amount of what I call a "Leap of Faith".

*Dadof2 going for reconciliation is a leap of faith!*





If the reconciliation is going to be an honest one them both parties have to be in it 110%.

Dadof2 can have the D, which is a good test of sincerity, motivation, and accountability, and be in it 110%
Actually to NOT have the D is to lower the 110%



Sure we want the wayward to feel "suffer" consequences. But at some point some of those consequences can hurt the reconciliation.

My point about consequences was not to hurt the overall results of R or vengeance but to add motivation and accountability which will HELP the R if she is really sincere. Sure the consequences will cause some temporary suffering but there is going to be suffering with or without the consequences. I see the temporary suffering as helping the long range R. A person can get weak again after the first year or two and be tempted and paying the full consequences for betrayal can help be a deterrent in the 5-10-20 years left in a marriage


----------



## LongWalk

GusPolinski said:


> Waaaaay too much speculation going on here. Let's back up a bit and give Dadof2 some breathing room.


I am guilty.


----------



## IIJokerII

bandit.45 said:


> I wish I could reach through the internet and snatch those love goggles of Dads face. So he can see her the way we do.


Wee see her this way with ease since we have no emotional history or connection with this women so anything we suggest or opine on is in actuality fiction for this man. No matter how much damage she did their was and forever will be an emotional connection for him towards this woman and what seems to be keeping him focused on R is the echo of what once was, as he knows undoubtedly that since they were happy at one point that they can be again.

He, like all BS, is wrestling with all the other details in hopes that the echo can evolve into voice. By even suggesting the intent of R Dof2 has already accepted her and her actions and by finding the strength to do so indicates a very large step towards recovery, for himself primarily, let alone the marriage. Honestly, is I was put thru the same scenario he was I would've broke, at least for a moment. He is demonstrating a very good resolve, lets support that.


----------



## dadof2

Well guys/gals I thought things may have been moving towards an attempt at R. We had spent a good bit of time together over the last 2 weeks, family dinners with kids, taking them around town together to run errands, even Halloween costume shopping together. We went to MC last week and went to dinner alone together before our session. We had talked about doing things without the kids to try and get the spark back in our relationship. We both thought the dinner went well and were looking forward to more occasions like that. I was very cautious, but beginning to think that we may be able to salvage our marriage.

Last night she called and we made small talk for a bit and then she hit me with it. She has enjoyed spending more time together and that she thinks its more because she is able to see the kids more. She said as hard as she has tried, she just doesn't have feelings for me. She said she wants us to be able to communicate and be civil for the kids, but that she doesn't ever see us together in the future. I told her that I can't make her see things any differently and I wish her the best. I told her its not what I wanted but that I wasn't going to beg her to stay if she didn't feel right. I did tell her that I think it was a lousy effort on her part, 2 weeks of family nights and one marriage counseling session and she is ready to throw it all away. She didn't like that. She said, "At least I'm telling you now rather than stringing you along for a few more months."

I told her that I wasn't angry but I was just hurt and that I had done all I can do and if it wasn't enough then its time to move on. I told her I would find somebody better. She said that if I'm going to be mean then she was going to hang up. I then said, just don't make up any more stories to your parents about me hitting you, etc. She hung up on that one. Haven't heard from her since.

I guess I knew all along that we weren't gonna make it, but I always figured it would be that she was cake eating with OM underground and I would find out. Not that she would straight up say that she's not in love with me and that she doesn't ever see that getting any better. I told her I thought we would work on that in counseling, and she didn't say anything. 

So I am back to where I was a couple of months ago, but now reality is sinking in. I always thought that she would come back and we would be a family again, but now I see that that is not going to happen. I am stunned again like I was on DDay. My mind is racing thinking about the future and how our kids lives' will be effected. I think I am a good dad, but raising a 4 year old (boy) and a 2 year old (girl) can be very tough, especially for a single dad. I think I have done well the last few months during our separation, but I always had the thought that it was only temporary. The finality of this is starting to hit me and I feel devastated. I have been doing the 180 for months, but I kind of let my guard down the last couple of weeks to try to see if I could R with her. Now for her to end it like this just leaves me dumbfounded again.


----------



## naiveonedave

Sorry to hear this dad. Wishing you the best. You deserve better.


----------



## turnera

Sometimes that's what you need to be able to finally cut ties. We all could see that you hadn't, hadn't really seen the reality we did, so you had to go through this for it to sink in. 

Better days are ahead.


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## Squeakr

Sorry you are experiencing this again. 

I am not surprised as she is possibly seeing and in contact with the OM everyday at work and only with you occasionally. This fact makes it easy for her to rekindle those feeling for him. Maybe she is just "slapping you in the face" with this info now, so she can move on guilt free to be with him. If she can make you mad and angered by her statements and bluntness, then she can reinforce to herself, all the lies she has been spreading, and walk away without a guilty conscience as she has reinforced within her mind how true they are (whether true or not she actually believes it from her perspective). 

Either way, it is done and time to move on and start a new chapter in your life. I am in the same position and know how hard and scary it is to make the change to co-parenting. Good luck.


----------



## azteca1986

dadof2 said:


> Last night she called and we made small talk for a bit and then she hit me with it. She has enjoyed spending more time together and that *she thinks its more because she is able to see the kids more. * She said as hard as she has tried, she just doesn't have feelings for me.


The kids are with you?

Anyway now she can tell everyone that she 'tried'. All 2 weeks worth.



> I told her that I wasn't angry but I was just hurt and that I had done all I can do and if it wasn't enough then its time to move on. *I told her I would find somebody better.* She said that if I'm going to be mean then she was going to hang up. I then said, just don't make up any more stories to your parents about me hitting you, etc. She hung up on that one. Haven't heard from her since.


Shouldn't be too hard. When you're ready, find a woman that hasn't filed a false RO against you. I'm glad you said both those things. And now you know why she never stopped the divorce.



> The finality of this is starting to hit me and I feel devastated. I have been doing the 180 for months, but I kind of let my guard down the last couple of weeks to try to see if I could R with her. Now for her to end it like this just leaves me dumbfounded again.


Sorry for what you're going through today, dadof2, but she's done nothing tangible since she 'ended her affair'.


----------



## dadof2

I just don't get it at all. One week ago from today we went to dinner and then to MC. Her mom watched the kids and the next morning her mom texted me how excited STBX was when she got home, and that she was "bragging" on me.

I think that she liked the idea of being a family again but she just couldn't do the heavy lifting. I don't think I asked a lot of her, just to be honest with me and to cut ties with OM and the toxic friends. She seemed to have a problem with the friends because she said those were her support group. She skipped out on a GNO last Friday night to be with me and the kids, and I guess she got scared thinking she would have to give that up forever. I made it clear that until she earned some trust back that I would be very wary of any GNO.

All along I have been the only one who ever held her accountable for what she is doing. Her parents, friends, and certainly OM have not made her accountable. So rather than own up to it, she just shuts me out and pretends nothing is wrong with her. I told her how much it hurt me to think of our children's future and that I felt she never put much effort into it from the beginning.


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## bandit.45

Keep your chin up Dad.


----------



## Forest

In time you'll get a better perspective for all this. Once you know R is not going to happen and accept it, you'll see things a lot more clearly.

Really, look at what she's done. Its deplorable. A person with any honor or integrity could not act like that. She's putting her selfish wants ahead of everything else. Not the type of person you can call a good wife or mother.

Its a horrible and crappy thing to go thru-and she put you through it. You've mentioned she has toxic friends, yet she won't see it. Possibly she's a toxic spouse.


----------



## happyman64

Dof2

Now you know why she did not stop the D.

Was she intimate with you at all these last two weeks?

I understand you are hurt. 

How I think you feel is greatly disappointed in her. Her lack of effort to R was dismal.

But you see it dad. And that is what counts.

And you are also correct that most likely you are the only one that holds her accountable.

No matter what; feel good that you tried. Get your head straightened out.

Focus on you and your kids.

When the time is right you will meet someone that is awesome. 

Of that I am sure.

HM


----------



## Squeakr

dadof2 said:


> I think that she liked the idea of being a family again but she just couldn't do the heavy lifting. I don't think I asked a lot of her, just to be honest with me and to cut ties with OM and the toxic friends. She seemed to have a problem with the friends because she said those were her support group. She skipped out on a GNO last Friday night to be with me and the kids, and I guess she got scared thinking she would have to give that up forever. I made it clear that until she earned some trust back that I would be very wary of any GNO.
> 
> All along I have been the only one who ever held her accountable for what she is doing. Her parents, friends, and certainly OM have not made her accountable. So rather than own up to it, she just shuts me out and pretends nothing is wrong with her. I told her how much it hurt me to think of our children's future and that I felt she never put much effort into it from the beginning.


That is why cutting out the toxic friends and family was so hard, as they all supported her (and didn't judge or hold her accountable). No one wants to be thought of negatively (think about how it bothers you with what she has said and done, RO, lies, etc). She sees that as her life from now on, and that she is going to "wear the scarlet A" for you, when the "rest of her world" (which in her mind is everyone) thinks nothing is wrong with what she did. This is why people that do wrong must surround themselves with like people so that they can reinforce everything that they are feeling (and generally the rest of the non-toxic world won't agree). 

My STBX did the same (cutting putt he toxic friends and GNOs) and resented me for asking it the entire time we were trying R (false for sure) and now that we are separated she is reconnecting with them all. She just can't seem to make new friends that know the true history and are not toxic (and can't understand why, and FYI she is a teacher as well doing the same as yours).


----------



## Hicks

dadof2 said:


> I guess I knew all along that we weren't gonna make it, but I always figured it would be that she was cake eating with OM underground and I would find out. Not that she would straight up say that she's not in love with me and that she doesn't ever see that getting any better. I told her I thought we would work on that in counseling, and she didn't say anything.
> 
> .


She never quit her job. You cannot recover while she is working there. It's likely that something occured with OM and what she said to you is complete BS. The other possiblity is her friends are influencing her. That's why her job and her friends are prerequisites for any recovery. You tried to recover / play house without enforcing these steps first.


----------



## warlock07

Your wife and OM had a lover's tiff and broke up but looks like they made up.

For reference, look at Luvmyjava's thread for this kind of scenarios


----------



## convert

I guess it is just me but I would still put OM up on cheatersville even if you wife is done with him he is not going to stop with trying to bed other attached women, and if it was not for OP's kids i would put the WW up there too.

but the best way to move forward is hard 180 for you, start living well
seeing/dating women might help too.
your wife is the kind of women that is going to like when she sees you with a pretty women by you side, she may even try to come back one more time, like a child that doesn't want to share their toys even if they are not playing with them.


----------



## warlock07

dadof3, brace yourself to see both of them together again. People here jumped the gun and gave you false hopes about possibility of R. You never had a chance.

Remember Bob's post about codependency?


----------



## dadof2

Squeakr said:


> That is why cutting out the toxic friends and family was so hard, as they all supported her (and didn't judge or hold her accountable). No one wants to be thought of negatively (think about how it bothers you with what she has said and done, RO, lies, etc). *She sees that as her life from now on, and that she is going to "wear the scarlet A" for you, when the "rest of her world" (which in her mind is everyone) thinks nothing is wrong with what she did.* This is why people that do wrong must surround themselves with like people so that they can reinforce everything that they are feeling (and generally the rest of the non-toxic world won't agree).
> 
> My STBX did the same (cutting putt he toxic friends and GNOs) and resented me for asking it the entire time we were trying R (false for sure) and now that we are separated she is reconnecting with them all. *She just can't seem to make new friends that know the true history and are not toxic* (and can't understand why, and FYI she is a teacher as well doing the same as yours).


You hit the nail on the head with these points. I thought she was really making progress, she had blocked OM on Facebook, began eating lunch with a different group of teachers, things I thought were positive signs. But I guess she just thinks that I am going to "punish" her for the rest of her life. The other friends and now even her own mother just enable her and don't make her answer any tough questions. Her mom is now her "best friend" and sends her notes and emails about how strong she is and that she loves her, etc. Makes me sick to think that no one will give her sound advice and perspective on what she has done to her family.


----------



## dadof2

warlock07 said:


> Remember Bob's post about codependency?


Yes and I do feel that I have some codependent traits. I enjoy fixing things for her and taking care of things so she doesn't have to worry about it. I get satisfaction out of doing things for her. I can see now how she has taken advantage of that. I always thought that I was her "savior" and I could give her a great life. Now she has outgrown needing a savior and protector, or she just wants someone else to do it. It hurts me that I won't be able to do things for her and provide for her.

I know that sounds silly, but I am being honest. I am a strong man, I feel like I have handled myself well through all of this, but I do admit to being codependent on her for validation.


----------



## tom67

Well time to make it uncomfortable for the om and put him on cheaterville.
She is really going to regret it when you have someone younger and hotter by your side.
At least you have some closure.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



dadof2 said:


> You hit the nail on the head with these points. I thought she was really making progress, she had blocked OM on Facebook, began eating lunch with a different group of teachers, things I thought were positive signs. But I guess she just thinks that I am going to "punish" her for the rest of her life. The other friends and now even her own mother just enable her and don't make her answer any tough questions. Her mom is now her "best friend" and sends her notes and emails about how strong she is and that she loves her, etc. Makes me sick to think that no one will give her sound advice and perspective on what she has done to her family.


Her choice, brother. Nothing you can do about that.

My guess is she still has yet to hit bottom. And it will happen. Something emotionally challenging will happen to her right about the time you have started dating some pretty young thing. Her world will come crashing down around her.

Just make sure you are healthy, because when she comes crawling back to you after hitting bottom, you need to be strong enough to turn her away. Otherwise your life will be anchored with her s***** impulses.


----------



## badmemory

dad,

She did you a favor.

The more she realized that she wasn't going to escape consequences, the less interested she was in R. My guess is that if you had set her down from the start and laid out all of your expectations at once; she wouldn't have even tried at all. It couldn't be more obvious that she's not remorseful and doesn't have the energy to even pretend that she is.

And I agree with Warlock, you can bet the POSOM is not out of the picture.

Move on and be happy.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

You called it so right when you told her she made poor effort. Glad you told her straight up what you thought, because it was lousy for sure. And you were 100% correct when you told her you could find someone better given her lousy effort. I test people in two areas "capacity" and "willingness." Both have to be present for successful reconciliation and in both partners. You have to have a certain capacity as a BS and the willingness to take that on. And she would have to have a certain capacity as a WS and willingness to take that on. Where it breaks down the quickest from what I've seen is in willingness in one of the two partners. Most of the time capacity is there. Proud of you for putting yourself out there as someone who had capacity AND willingness. Sorry she disappointed you in her lack of willingness. Don't hesitate to put her lack of willingness where it belongs... ON HER. Walk out, head high and solidify the safe zone for your kids. Wish you the BEST in finding a strong future partner who owns herself easily.


----------



## Squeakr

dadof2 said:


> Makes me sick to think that no one will give her sound advice and perspective on what she has done to her family.


I doubt this statement. I bet that there are several out there that will do so. She just doesn't want to hear it so she avoids and doesn't befriend those types of people. She also rebuffs their claims by justifying her behaviors through the evidence she presents (lies she tells about you and the RO). It is really hard to argue with someone that can claim they got an RO against you for those behaviors. The fact that it was granted (whether verified as necessary or not) will offer validity to lots of the lies she is telling, and make people unwilling to help her or offer advice as they just want to avoid that situation. 

Just as you don't want her associating with toxic friends, non-toxic friends will not want to associate with her for fear of guilt by association.

As they say: Birds of a feather.....


----------



## tom67

farsidejunky said:


> Her choice, brother. Nothing you can do about that.
> 
> My guess is she still has yet to hit bottom. And it will happen. Something emotionally challenging will happen to her right about the time you have started dating some pretty young thing. Her world will come crashing down around her.
> 
> Just make sure you are healthy, because when she comes crawling back to you after hitting bottom, you need to be strong enough to turn her away. Otherwise your life will be anchored with her s***** impulses.


How the heck is she going to hit bottom if everyone is enabling her?
She'll just pop more pills and wine and forget about it at least for a while.
Tell her not to call anymore only texts about the kids.
Ignore anything else.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



tom67 said:


> How the heck is she going to hit bottom if everyone is enabling her?
> She'll just pop more pills and wine and forget about it at least for a while.
> Tell her not to call anymore only texts about the kids.
> Ignore anything else.


Because even toxic people recognize when somebody is doing the death spiral. By death, I don't mean literally, but figuratively. As she continues to wind down, people will start to distance themselves from her. Then when she looks around and realizes that there's nobody around who she used to having to enable her, that's when she will realize it.


----------



## harrybrown

Sorry for all your pain.

Do the hard 180. And you do have the possibility of a happy future. It is hard, but better to know what she is really like than to go through the false R.

Good luck in the future.


----------



## tom67

farsidejunky said:


> Because even toxic people recognize when somebody is doing the death spiral. By death, I don't mean literally, but figuratively. As she continues to wind down, people will start to distance themselves from her. Then when she looks around and realizes that there's nobody around who she used to having to enable her, that's when she will realize it.


It won't happen for quite a while because it looks like her parents fixed everything for her growing up and she could do no wrong.
It's really sad.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

I had 2 false Rs and one was like this. Mind you I did R for real later on.

You were doomed for the get go, for R to work she would have to hate the OM and scared to death that you would D her at any moment. What she got from the false R was that if she were to change her mind again you'd be her backup plan so she can take chances now. You were too willing to R with her after what she did. She probably tells herself that if you did this she'd leave you in the dust so the fact that you were more forgiving made you look weak to her.

You made things too easy for her.

Make her the enemy and tell her she blew her last chance with you. The more unavailable you are to her, the more likely she will have second thoughts again. Its a catch-22, they only want to really R when you don't.

That being said, in this case I would walk away. She is a p!ss poor wife and doesn't deserve anymore chances. In a year or so from now you will most likely be with a much better woman and will be kicking yourself for not walking away on D-day.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

She never broke contact with the OM. If you ever got her phone call log, you'd have seen this in black and white.

I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you. I'm not surprised though. I think it was like a newly recovering alcoholic trying to give up booze. Then they drive by 10 liquor stores on their way to the bar that they work at every day.

She was still working with the OM. Surrounded by people that knew about an the cheating and helped her do it. She would have had to leave that job immediately for you to have ever had a chance at R.


----------



## Chaparral

The big mistake here was. Of blowing up the other man and making him run like the rat he is. Put a$$hole on cheaterville . Let him wear it.


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## Forest

Its also interesting that the WW gets bent out of shape when told you'd find someone better.

She's cheated, lied, tramped around, forsaken her vows and family, but gets upset when its suggested a better person could be out there?


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## happyman64

dadof2 said:


> Yes and I do feel that I have some codependent traits. I enjoy fixing things for her and taking care of things so she doesn't have to worry about it. I get satisfaction out of doing things for her. I can see now how she has taken advantage of that. I always thought that I was her "savior" and I could give her a great life. Now she has outgrown needing a savior and protector, or she just wants someone else to do it. It hurts me that I won't be able to do things for her and provide for her.
> 
> I know that sounds silly, but I am being honest. I am a strong man, I feel like I have handled myself well through all of this, but I do admit to being codependent on her for validation.


It is called the KISA syndrome.

Knight In Shining Armor

Just remember Dof2. She fired you. Let her go find a new Knight.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2, just read the latest updates. Man. I can almost feel that punch to the gut. Sorry, sir. Having said that... I'd be lying if I said I were at all surprised. Her relatively lukewarm attempts at reconciliation (didn't stop the divorce, didn't want to change jobs immediately, etc) really telegraphed all of this.

And yeah... I'd probably put OM on CV as well. Is it vindictive? Yeah, probably. But honestly... so the f*ck what? He's more than earned it. Plus, look at it as "paying it forward" for the next poor SOB who finds his wife spending significant amounts of time talking with, talking about, "working out with", or "babysitting for" him.

Oh well... onward and upward! It's time to "shake off dust of your feet", put her in your rear-view, and never look back. Ever.


----------



## Squeakr

Forest said:


> Its also interesting that the WW gets bent out of shape when told you'd find someone better.
> 
> She's cheated, lied, tramped around, forsaken her vows and family, but gets upset when its suggested a better person could be out there?


Not really surprising or unexpected. She feels that she really did nothing wrong as she and her toxic support group have convinced her that he was the root cause of all her pain and issues and she was justified in her actions. He has been made the cause of all of the issues, so she can walk away guilt free with her head high, as "any reasonable person in the same situation would have reacted exactly the same" and she and the support group will continue to think this way. They only know "her" version of the "truth".


----------



## BWBill

Don't be surprised if she doesn't end up with the OM. You still don't have the truth as to why they're not together.

She's strictly watching out for herself. She decided that putting her family back together would require sacrifices on her part and she's just not into that.


----------



## warlock07

dadof2 said:


> Yes and I do feel that I have some codependent traits. I enjoy fixing things for her and taking care of things so she doesn't have to worry about it. I get satisfaction out of doing things for her. I can see now how she has taken advantage of that. I always thought that I was her "savior" and I could give her a great life. Now she has outgrown needing a savior and protector, or she just wants someone else to do it. It hurts me that I won't be able to do things for her and provide for her.
> 
> I know that sounds silly, but I am being honest. I am a strong man, I feel like I have handled myself well through all of this, but I do admit to being codependent on her for validation.



Some is an understatement. You were codependent until she dumped you again.

Not looking you rag you at a low point but the same thing happened, how many times ? Same pattern again and again.

After a blow like this, you will post a "enlightenment" post, about how she has all these faults, how you see it now and about how you are moving on. Until she reaches for you again. Then you start dreaming again about R. 

Even now, if she wants you, she can get you back. I guarantee it.

She did you a big favor by removing the option from your hands. 

You eagerly searching her cell for texts from the OM only helped fasten her resolve. You never had a chance.


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2,

Not feeling it anymore, huh. She came over in shorts, flaunting her booty just to make sure she had you in case she wanted her family back. That self assurance of hers has been a gaping tear in the fabric of your marriage. She thinks she could have gotten some other more terrific guy. It's not true.

OM lives in a trailer. PE teacher and assistant principal. Probably he was jock in high school and that was the peak of his life. Your wife and the toxic friends sat together with him in the bar and told stupid stories to build their egos. Hardly grown up behavior when the consequences are destroyed marriages.

If your wife was bored she could have divorced you first and then started trying out new men.

I think POSOM and your wife were forced to cool it by the school board. She has had him on hold at times, a sort of shyte test for him. After all, you were a pretty reliable husband. She is measuring the next one upon your positive attributes.

I apologize for pushing Cheaterville so hard. Now you can do it if you want but it will not change her decision. She is too proud. Ironic given the screwed shyte she pulled. Ultimately, by treating you so terribly and getting away with it, she undermined your image. How could she be in love with a man who would tolerate such nonsense? Well, you will not be that man any longer.

Like several other posters, I suspect you will find a better wife. Kinder, better looking, more maternal, a woman who will enjoy hot sex in the bedroom and not feel the need to get fingered by her boss in his office after work. 

Practice the 180. Be polite and correct when you have contact. No more puppy dog looks. If she brushes against you or tries to hug put your hand up and stop her. She's not done fvcking with you, IMO.


----------



## Chaparral

Ask your lawyer to get an order keeping your kids away from the om as long as possible.

He's responsible for taking your kids from you half the time and that's if you're lucky.

Cville now. Two can play the blow up someones life game. No one here has earned this more than him.

If someone messed up my kids life like this,c ville would be the least of their worries.


----------



## dadof2

I have been reading over our divorce settlement this morning and it brings tears to my eyes thinking of the custody aspect of it. I think of how innocent our two children are in all of this and how much it will effect their lives. I know people divorce every day but it all just seems so selfish in our case. She said she doesn't know if she can be happy, so she will choose to ruin 2 precious lives so she can search for her happiness.

I realize there is nothing I can say to her that will make sense to her. It seems like a rational person would see what she is doing, but I still don't think she gets the severity of this. I told her that last night, that I don't think she understands how big of a deal this is. Like this divorce is like changing out of one dress and into another. I will never understand it or get an explanation from her that helps me understand.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> I have been reading over our divorce settlement this morning and it brings tears to my eyes thinking of the custody aspect of it. I think of how innocent our two children are in all of this and how much it will effect their lives. I know people divorce every day but it all just seems so selfish in our case. She said she doesn't know if she can be happy, so she will choose to ruin 2 precious lives so she can search for her happiness.
> 
> I realize there is nothing I can say to her that will make sense to her. It seems like a rational person would see what she is doing, but I still don't think she gets the severity of this. I told her that last night, that I don't think she understands how big of a deal this is. Like this divorce is like changing out of one dress and into another. I will never understand it or get an explanation from her that helps me understand.


She is a selfish b!tch and an entitled princess the kids will adapt and will at least have one stable parent.
Now get angry and put his @ss on cheaterville.


----------



## badmemory

dadof2 said:


> I have been reading over our divorce settlement this morning and it brings tears to my eyes thinking of the custody aspect of it. I think of how innocent our two children are in all of this and how much it will effect their lives. I know people divorce every day but it all just seems so selfish in our case. She said she doesn't know if she can be happy, so she will choose to ruin 2 precious lives so she can search for her happiness.
> 
> I realize there is nothing I can say to her that will make sense to her. It seems like a rational person would see what she is doing, but I still don't think she gets the severity of this. I told her that last night, that I don't think she understands how big of a deal this is. Like this divorce is like changing out of one dress and into another. I will never understand it or get an explanation from her that helps me understand.


Your children's lives will not be ruined. Both of you can be good parents to them.

You allowed her the opportunity to be the one to tell *you* it's over. Had you channeled your anger from her betrayal and taken a more aggressive approach to giving her consequences, she wouldn't have had that opportunity.

Now you feel the double edge sword of her betrayal and being *twice* rejected. That rejection is driving your emotions now. Find your anger; and know in your brain and heart that this is not only for the best; but it gives you the opportunity to start a new and better life.


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## ArmyofJuan

dadof2 said:


> I have been reading over our divorce settlement this morning and it brings tears to my eyes thinking of the custody aspect of it. I think of how innocent our two children are in all of this and how much it will effect their lives. I know people divorce every day but it all just seems so selfish in our case. She said she doesn't know if she can be happy, so she will choose to ruin 2 precious lives so she can search for her happiness.


Remember this is her fault, it is out of your hands so you have to work with the cards you're dealt. You tried, now throw in the towel.

My parents divorced when I was 5 and I turned out fine btw.



> I realize there is nothing I can say to her that will make sense to her. It seems like a rational person would see what she is doing, but I still don't think she gets the severity of this. I told her that last night, that I don't think she understands how big of a deal this is. Like this divorce is like changing out of one dress and into another. I will never understand it or get an explanation from her that helps me understand.


She is in an irrational state and will be for some time. She sees you as the bad guy actively working against her (to her you are the selfish one) so she will do the OPPOSITE of what you say, even if its in her best interest. It's pretty much automatic.


Reverse psychology actually works well in these cases. Even when the WS wants a divorce they expect you to fight them over it so when you say you want the divorce as well 9 times out of 10 they backtrack. Just keep in mind she will most likely fight you on anything you say or want just so the sake of it so think about how you approach things. Hell if you agree with her she may end up changing her my _just because_ you agreed.


----------



## convert

you know what. If it were me I think i would put her on Cheaterville too, she might of been the aggressor here not the OM, i don't know though probably still not a good idea because of the kids.

Like Gus said paying forward


----------



## happyman64

dadof2 said:


> I have been reading over our divorce settlement this morning and it brings tears to my eyes thinking of the custody aspect of it. *I think of how innocent our two children are in all of this and how much it will effect their lives.* I know people divorce every day but it all just seems so selfish in our case. She said she doesn't know if she can be happy, so she will choose to ruin 2 precious lives so she can search for her happiness.
> 
> I realize there is nothing I can say to her that will make sense to her. It seems like a rational person would see what she is doing, but I still don't think she gets the severity of this. I told her that last night, that I don't think she understands how big of a deal this is. Like this divorce is like changing out of one dress and into another. * I will never understand it or get an explanation from her that helps me understand*.


Of course it will effect your kids lives. But how much depends upon you and your WW, 

Make the decision to minimize the damage it will have on your children. Get your wife to buy into this. It is worth the effort.

Of course you do not understand nor will you ever get a good reason. There rarely is a good reason to divorce.

SHe is selfish. She is immature. She is disrespectful.

Accept that about your wife and move forward in a positive direction.

Read some of the stories on TAM about future happiness.

They have the same qualities.

-The BS gets their confidence back.
-The BS has self respect.
-The BS is happy. Their happiness comes from within.
-The BS has come to a point in their lives that their Exspouse will not get in their way of a better future not only for themselves but for their children.

The BS feels pity or indifference to their WS in many cases.

It takes time Dof2. Now get your attorney to review the divorce paperwork.

Keep it amicable. You already know who she is. Calling her names will not change the outcome.

But giving her the cold shoulder for years certainly will.

HM


----------



## manfromlamancha

So sorry to hear the latest "development" Do2!

As others have said, her weak attempt at R kind of indicated a strong possibility that this might happen. And as you already know this is really tough on you because of 2 young innocents!

I think you had made really good progress prior to her pulling this [email protected] And if she has kept the POSOM in the background, then she is a particularly vile person. And this is what you need to focus on as you go forward - no matter how tough it will be on your kids (and they will cope no matter), it would be 10 times worse if you continued to live with a lying, cheating, deceitful and disrespectful person such as she. And I hope to God that she is at the very least a half-decent mother!

I hope you do not lose any of the advantage you had leading up to D prior to her half-a$$ed attempt at R. You were on track for a really good custody and financial agreement partially because she was afraid of what you really had by way of evidence etc - I hope this advantage has not gone away. CV for both is a must and PM us the link so we can drive the number of hits up so that any time anyone googles his name the CV link shows up first.

Stay strong and chalk this up to a bitter learning experience.


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## Forest

dadof2 said:


> I have been reading over our divorce settlement this morning and it brings tears to my eyes thinking of the custody aspect of it. I think of how innocent our two children are in all of this and how much it will effect their lives. I know people divorce every day but it all just seems so selfish in our case. She said she doesn't know if she can be happy, so she will choose to ruin 2 precious lives so she can search for her happiness.
> 
> I realize there is nothing I can say to her that will make sense to her. It seems like a rational person would see what she is doing, but I still don't think she gets the severity of this. I told her that last night, that I don't think she understands how big of a deal this is. Like this divorce is like changing out of one dress and into another. I will never understand it or get an explanation from her that helps me understand.


Reading what you've said here is precisely why you have make the hard, rational decisions here. She can't, or won't, or whatever. It all comes down to that. She's not capable at the moment of deserving your trust.

It stinks that there are people who can be so self centered that they will bring on situations like this. It has happened, however. Your kids will pick up on who it is that cares, who is responsible, and learn the difference.


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## dadof2

Thanks for the comments guys, I am really down right now and it helps to read you responses. Sometimes its nice just to have someone to talk to. The 2 biggest blows that I am dealing with are the rejection by my STBX- it hurts to know that I can't make her happy- and the thought of only seeing my children every other weekend. Man this is rough, I remember how it was our first few months of separation, and I hate that we are back to that.

Back then I felt like if I could just stick it out for a while that she would come back and things could be back to normal. Now the reality is setting in that it is not temporary, that I will have to be a single dad forever. It is hard for me with work, then to cook and clean the house for the 2 little ones. I will do my best because I love them so much, but man I'd be lying if I said this wasn't hard on me.


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## naiveonedave

dad - I think better days are ahead for, keep working on making the best you that you can. For you kids and for your next relationship. In a few years, it will good that your life is much more than thought possible and your stbx won't believe how wrong she went. Your kids will see this as well. Keep your chin up!


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



dadof2 said:


> Thanks for the comments guys, I am really down right now and it helps to read you responses. Sometimes its nice just to have someone to talk to. The 2 biggest blows that I am dealing with are the rejection by my STBX- it hurts to know that I can't make her happy- and the thought of only seeing my children every other weekend. Man this is rough, I remember how it was our first few months of separation, and I hate that we are back to that.
> 
> Back then I felt like if I could just stick it out for a while that she would come back and things could be back to normal. Now the reality is setting in that it is not temporary, that I will have to be a single dad forever. It is hard for me with work, then to cook and clean the house for the 2 little ones. I will do my best because I love them so much, but man I'd be lying if I said this wasn't hard on me.


You do not have to be a single dad forever. Once you purge yourself from this untenable situation you will meet a good woman who will be thankful to have a great guy like you. THEN your children will have a stable happy household to grow up in.


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## LongWalk

Dadof2,

Divorce is not the end of world. You have already coped for a long time, hoping against hope that she would come round. You did your best.

There is almost nothing you can say to her that will help either of you at this point. Cut her off. Every time you have to deal with her and it feels heavy, think of something makes you laugh, even if it is a little ironic and bitter. You need to accept that life is funny. Your wife is a loser. Detach and let her sink to the bottom like an anchor to rest in the mud. Someone else can attach a hook to lift her up. You are done.

If you need closure write her a letter about how you loved her and wanted to make it work, then crumple it up and throw it away.

Start a new thread in going through divorce.

CTS's ex cheating wife tried to destroy him. He lost his job. Had no home. But he never gave up. Now he has work again. Has moved closer to his two kids. His wife is marrying a slob named Bubba while he has a nice girlfriend that his kids like.

Can't you get more time with your kids than every other weekend?


----------



## IIJokerII

dadof2 said:


> I have been reading over our divorce settlement this morning and it brings tears to my eyes thinking of the custody aspect of it. I think of how innocent our two children are in all of this and how much it will effect their lives. I know people divorce every day but it all just seems so selfish in our case. She said she doesn't know if she can be happy, so she will choose to ruin 2 precious lives so she can search for her happiness.
> 
> I realize there is nothing I can say to her that will make sense to her. It seems like a rational person would see what she is doing, but I still don't think she gets the severity of this. I told her that last night, that I don't think she understands how big of a deal this is. Like this divorce is like changing out of one dress and into another. I will never understand it or get an explanation from her that helps me understand.


I don't know if you watch movies but in one instance I dropped this on my Wife after catching her in yet another lie with minor changes to suit the characters in question;

"Now, a staple of the superhero mythology is there's the superhero and there's the alter ego. Batman is actually Bruce Wayne, Spider-Man is actually Peter Parker. When that character wakes up in the morning, he's Peter Parker. He has to put on a costume to become Spider-Man. And it is in that characteristic Superman stands alone. Superman didn't become Superman. Superman was born Superman. When Superman wakes up in the morning, he's Superman. His alter ego is Clark Kent. His outfit with the big red "S", that's the blanket he was wrapped in as a baby when the Kents found him. Those are his clothes. What Kent wears – the glasses, the business suit – that's the costume. That's the costume Superman wears to blend in with us. Clark Kent is how Superman views us. And what are the characteristics of Clark Kent? He's weak, he's unsure of himself, he's a coward. Clark Kent is Superman's critique on the whole human race. Sort of like a my faithful wife and my cheating one."

After her hilariously puzzled face and some set up questions and the lies that followed I slammed her notebook on the and called her out on what I found. And it's true.... All that time of acting like a supermom, and best wife in the world and blah blah blah blah blah was nothing more than a costume, a disguise to mask what she apparently is really like. She hated liars and cheaters, but only when they affected her. And although I agree that we all are in a way wired to cheat I believe those who are ruthless about it should be in a way admired as they are now finally showing you who they are. 

You have now discovered that her alter ego was the woman you remember as your wife, loving bride, caring mother, all the qualities you felt you needed in life and more I bet. Warlock is right, often people would go to great lengths to find out who that mystery character really was, your wife did you a solid of showing you. Respond to her in kind. We know it sucks, hurts, blows, you name it. But you must accept this, until you do you'll forever be tempted to reengage, and knowing what you do know, it'll only be a costume.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for the comments guys, I am really down right now and it helps to read you responses. Sometimes its nice just to have someone to talk to. The 2 biggest blows that I am dealing with are the rejection by my STBX- it hurts to know that I can't make her happy- and the thought of only seeing my children every other weekend. Man this is rough, I remember how it was our first few months of separation, and I hate that we are back to that.
> 
> Back then I felt like if I could just stick it out for a while that she would come back and things could be back to normal. Now the reality is setting in that it is not temporary, that I will have to be a single dad forever. It is hard for me with work, then to cook and clean the house for the 2 little ones. I will do my best because I love them so much, but man I'd be lying if I said this wasn't hard on me.


Dadof2, do you have any siblings (sorry, can't remember) or close friends w/ whom you can spend some time? If so, maybe do something to get away for a few days... camping, fishing, hiking... stuff like that.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Why would you get your children only every other weekend?


----------



## dadof2

I guess I should have clarified my custody- we get 50/50 and that includes every other weekend. So I do get them during the week as well.

I do have a brother who I am not too close with, he lives nearby but we don't have much in common. I have a couple of guys I work with who are good friends but they are all married with kids so they stay busy with that. Most of my best friends are from college and they live about 2 hours away. This weekend is my weekend to be free so I am looking to maybe get out of town and go see them.


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## LongWalk

Paintball, rock climbing, concerts, fill every weekend.


----------



## LongWalk

dadof2 said:


> I have been NC with her for about a week now. She sensed me pulling away and began ramping up the texts/pictures at random times. Last weekend was our son's birthday and my family had a party for him on Friday night. We had a lot of fun, and for those couple of hours I didn't even think about our situation. Just seeing my kids having fun and opening presents then putting them together with him afterwards was a very rewarding time.
> 
> We swapped the kids on Sunday so she could do a party for him with her family. She sent me pics from their party and thanked me for allowing her to see him for his birthday with it being my weekend. I told her no problem, that this wasn't about us, it was about our son being able to enjoy his birthday.
> 
> Later that night, she called. I almost didn't answer, but for some reason I did. *She was on the other end crying. She said how terrible she feels about the whole situation and that she doesn't deserve another chance.* She said the whole birthday situation and our daughter being in dance class now has opened her eyes to what divorced life would be like. She said *she wants to be with me and that she wants our family to be together.*
> 
> I told her that I appreciated her telling me that, but I have *heard it all before*. She said she knows that and she knows it will be a hard road but she realizes what she has to lose and wants to make things work. She asked if I would consider going back to MC with her, and I said I really don't see the point. I said I am trying to move on with my life and that I have friends that are trying to set me up with women and that part of me wants to see what else is out there. She started sobbing when I told her that.
> 
> We kind of left it open ended, and she has been nice to me since then, a few nice texts here and there. I had IC yesterday and talked to my therapist about it. She said that she can help me all she can, but at the end of the day its only me that can decide if I want to try R or if I have had enough already. It seems like I change my mind every hour, lol. I am reading other threads about how hard R is, so I am trying to see myself in that situation. Honestly, I think about our kids, 4 and 2, and they are the main reason I am even considering R. If we didn't have them I think we would be well on our way to D.


She will try and jerk you around some more. Don't take calls from her in the night. If it's not about the kids, tell her to write you an email and hang up.


----------



## RV9

Make new friends. Try acting happy and one day you'd certainly be happy. Benefits of being a single dad - you can be an awesome dad minus all the drama with your xw.


----------



## Augusto

You know what? You will be free once the divorce is finalized. Meet someone sweet who treats you nice and makes you happy. You did your best and now you deserve to let someone else put in as much as you have into your current marriage. She WILL regret this later in life. She WILL regret her affair and what it did to the family. However your kids very well could possibly say that their stepmother is a much better mother than their birth mother. If effects everything in life later in terms of stability and family. I have watched it develop with my wife's birth mom. She has a birth mom and a step mom. The birth mom wishes everyday she could remove her affair and still be married. The step mom has everything now that the birth mom wants. And she can never have it. She gave it up to eat another mans **** for several years. Now she is all be her lonesome. She comes to events for the grand-kids and she has to look over at her ex-husband who she betrayed and broke his heart and how him and his current wife interact with the family and she has no real part of that other than giving birth to 2 children. She cries every week for the last 10 years since she has moved back to her hometown where most of the family still lives. That is what stopped my wife's affair. She did not want to end up like her. A few months ago she was not invited to a graduation because there were not enough tickets. But the grandparents that came were the ones who have been around nurturing the family. She was heartbroken because she did not get an invite to even the dinner afterwards. But she is the one that gave up everything for another man and was willing to hurt everyone around her including her children with her affair. She has to live with that and much like your wife dadof2, She will also have to live with the fact that you were willing to forgive and let her back into the marriage and did not take that once i lifetime chance that most BS's do not offer. FYI....She might have slept with someone the last few days. That behavior seems to go hand in hand. Thousand bucks says she screwed him again within the last few days.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Divorce ALWAYS affects the kids... it's up to the coparents to minimize the damage. Some coparents do a fantastic job of this and others f&*( it up royally. 

Dadof2, definitely get some guy time this weekend, just wishing the best for you. I know you will do a great job minimizing the divorce damage, lets hope your ex chooses the same.


----------



## Squeakr

Rohitvikash said:


> Make new friends. Try acting happy and one day you'd certainly be happy. Benefits of being a single dad - you can be an awesome dad minus all the drama with your xw.


If only it were that easy.

Not all had spousal drama in their life. Lots were happily content in their life until it was rocked senseless by the WS actions which until that point were relatively normal and content. I don't know how many times I have heard the BS state how happy they were, or others show envy of the "perfect" life and marriage they had, while the WS was suffering in silence (no drama involved at all).


----------



## Forest

Hey, if you want a lift, get yourself a "Modern Family" image in your head. Your future? Sophia Vergara. Her future? Middle aged Shelly Long.

If you don't watch the show, just let the thought of running into her at a school play in 10 years, when she's got a little botox swelling going on. After the play you'll be picking up Jillian from her art history class to go bikini shopping before your long weekend.

Yeah, maybe a little cruel, but we're talking about therapy here.


----------



## honcho

dadof2 said:


> Yes and I do feel that I have some codependent traits. I enjoy fixing things for her and taking care of things so she doesn't have to worry about it. I get satisfaction out of doing things for her. I can see now how she has taken advantage of that. I always thought that I was her "savior" and I could give her a great life. Now she has outgrown needing a savior and protector, or she just wants someone else to do it. It hurts me that I won't be able to do things for her and provide for her.
> 
> I know that sounds silly, but I am being honest. I am a strong man, I feel like I have handled myself well through all of this, but I do admit to being codependent on her for validation.


She hasnt outgrown you. The problem with being the fixer or savior is they grow to want more and more. It just gets to the point where you cant do or give enough to satisfy there want for more.

They look to outside for quick easy validation and attention. You will hold her accountable and her current support group wont. She chose the short term path of least resistance to her, the easy way out. This will be her downfall the rest of her life always chosing the easy way out.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

honcho said:


> She hasnt outgrown you. The problem with being the fixer or savior is they grow to want more and more. It just gets to the point where you cant do or give enough to satisfy there want for more.
> 
> They look to outside for quick easy validation and attention. You will hold her accountable and her current support group wont. She chose the short term path of least resistance to her, the easy way out. This will be her downfall the rest of her life always chosing the easy way out.


THIS is very very key. 

You weren't designed to be her all in all. 

Therefore her "need for you to make her happy" is at an unreasonable level.

She needs to move to "I am happy in my own skin and really enjoy you in my space."

That's reasonable expectation, the other is not.


----------



## Augusto

dadof2 said:


> I just don't get it at all. One week ago from today we went to dinner and then to MC. Her mom watched the kids and the next morning her mom texted me how excited STBX was when she got home, and that she was "bragging" on me.
> 
> I think that she liked the idea of being a family again but she just couldn't do the heavy lifting. I don't think I asked a lot of her, just to be honest with me and to cut ties with OM and the toxic friends. She seemed to have a problem with the friends because she said those were her support group. She skipped out on a GNO last Friday night to be with me and the kids, and I guess she got scared thinking she would have to give that up forever. I made it clear that until she earned some trust back that I would be very wary of any GNO.
> 
> All along I have been the only one who ever held her accountable for what she is doing. Her parents, friends, and certainly OM have not made her accountable. So rather than own up to it, she just shuts me out and pretends nothing is wrong with her. I told her how much it hurt me to think of our children's future and that I felt she never put much effort into it from the beginning.


I'm telling yo right now....she had contact either with him or another man. And quite possible slept with him. She might have caught herself eyeballing another person and just saw it happening all over again and made her realize she does not love you enough to not stray. if that is the case you are better off.


----------



## Dyokemm

"It is hard for me with work, then to cook and clean the house for the 2 little ones. I will do my best because I love them so much, but man I'd be lying if I said this wasn't hard on me."

Hire some young cutie to come in every week to help with this....in my area there are lots of college students from the local university that leave fliers offering cheap cleaning services.

Then make sure she is over one day cleaning the house when your stbxWW stops by for child exchange.

Just seeing some hot, young woman cleaning up what used to be HER house will irritate her to no end, in all likelihood.

Plus, you really could use the help around the house.


----------



## clipclop2

A lot of women would think it a pathetic ploy. 

Get help that is the best for your family and not to take a jab at your STBX.


----------



## 1812overture

dadof2 said:


> The 2 biggest blows that I am dealing with are the rejection by my STBX- it hurts to know that I can't make her happy- and the thought of only seeing my children every other weekend. Man this is rough, I remember how it was our first few months of separation, and I hate that we are back to that.


Do2 -- I'm sorry for the added pain from this latest turn of events. I am not myself coping with infidelity (I'm a married man who can't get laid), I certainly understand the thoughts of how hard shared custody will be. It keeps me in my marriage -- as it seems it might have kept you in your marriage, though your wife has made it impossible.

From what I have seen and been told -- and there are many flavors of this -- it can still be a very rewarding experience. When you do not have the kids, you will focus on work and on you. When you have the kids, you will focus on them. You can cook meals ahead of time, hire a cleaner, etc., etc. My kids are older than yours (and I typically hear from divorced Dads whose kids are older) but there is something to be said for blocking out after 5:00PM on your work calendar and being fully engaged with your kids. I rarely get that, because I see them all the time, so I am easily distracted by work. (I know I probably shouldn't be, but that's the way it is right now.)

The impact at work ought to be limited because the other half the time you'll be able to work late -- and you've got every other weekend for you. I know you had some of that in recent months, but all with the rest of this mess running around in your head. 

Beginning very soon (maybe even now) you will be a 100% Dad half the time, which I assume is at least as good, and probably better, than being a 50% Dad all the time. Especially because your kids will only really know 100% Dad. They will know the great guy you are, not one who is distracted by work or even the worry that your wife is cheating (again!) or the lingering resentment of her past affair. 

Now, given this horrible experience, I'll suggest you consider what, if any, payback will help you. You stepped gently toward it reminding your cheating wife of how she lied to her parents. Others here can guide you better, but many got some level of payback (I'm not going to call it revenge, because that's a bit more loaded.) If you chose Cheaterville, kids in school know how to Google. Everyone will know (you can help, of course.) Perhaps now you reply to your in-laws text message -- say "I'll send no more pictures. The time the kids spend with me will never again include you." Bring a date to any function you think may get back to your wife. 

Convert got "payback" when his wife saw other women sniffing around (please correct me if I'm wrong, Convert). Someday Dig got payback by ruining the other man's life (and unfortunately, his family along with him). And they are still married. You've never had even the small pleasure of kicking your wife out -- so think about what might satisfy you.

Perhaps if you track down the other man's ex-wife, she'll know of some vulnerability. Maybe file a defamation lawsuit -- you may not win, but you'll force your wife to explain why she filed that RO. Depose her own Mom to explain how she sought you out even after the RO was in place. 
Maybe you can achieve peace without any sort of payback. OpenMinded has seemingly done exactly that. But please think about it. Then decide, act, and move on. Go be a great Dad. Many men have done that. You can too.


----------



## jr92gp

dadof2 said:


> You hit the nail on the head with these points. I thought she was really making progress, she had blocked OM on Facebook, began eating lunch with a different group of teachers, things I thought were positive signs. But I guess she just thinks that I am going to "punish" her for the rest of her life. The other friends and now even her own mother just enable her and don't make her answer any tough questions. Her mom is now her "best friend" and sends her notes and emails about how strong she is and that she loves her, etc. Makes me sick to think that no one will give her sound advice and perspective on what she has done to her family.


This and your last few posts feel like a rewrite of my own experience. I am so sorry you are going through this. There is nothing you can do to change what her "side" thinks of you. In all seriousness, it really doesn't matter. They are all broken people and you should not make room for broken people in your life.

I completely get the "finality" thing you mentioned as I felt the same way at one time. It's kind of like avoiding the inevitable, likely a defense mechanism that your brain automatically puts in place to temper the emotional destruction.

Don't fall into allowing yourself to be used any more than you already have been by this woman.


----------



## Forest

I hope you will not get bogged down with feeling any shame or embarrassment over this. I know that men will do this, no matter how obvious it is that we shouldn't. All the logic and common sense in the world doesn't help sometimes.

You're Samson in this deal, and her role is obvious. You played by rules, with honor, no reason to hide or hang your head. Friends, family, whoever will always be comfortable with hearing straight talk, it shakes off that awkward crap that goes with infidelity. Its not like you got slicked by a car salesman. This was the one woman on earth you should have been able to trust completely (sorry moms) and she deceived and deserted you. She should hang her head in failure, not you.

Here's a good song for your weekend.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLprAUar11U


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Forest said:


> I hope you will not get bogged down with feeling any shame or embarrassment over this. I know that men will do this, no matter how obvious it is that we shouldn't. All the logic and common sense in the world doesn't help sometimes.
> 
> You're Samson in this deal, and her role is obvious. You played by rules, with honor, no reason to hide or hang your head. Friends, family, whoever will always be comfortable with hearing straight talk, it shakes off that awkward crap that goes with infidelity. Its not like you got slicked by a car salesman. This was the one woman on earth you should have been able to trust completely (sorry moms) and she deceived and deserted you. She should hang her head in failure, not you.
> 
> Here's a good song for your weekend.
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLprAUar11U


Dwight's the man... love him!


----------



## Dyokemm

clipclop,

Well based on what Do2 posted, he actually really could use the help around the house to ease some of the strain of taking care everything for his kids.

So my advice was mainly practical...if he needs assistance, he should not hesitate to get it.

Getting a cute college girl to do it isn't necessary, but if it irritates his worthless WW, then I would have no problem with taking a jab at her.

Do2 could do a million things to show her disdain and disrespect, which she deserves in every way not just for her A but for the allegations of DV and the RO, and it still wouldn't equal the wrong she has done him.

And she obviously can't take that disdain...hence why she got mad and called him mean when he said he would get some one better...even though it would be da*n near impossible NOT to find improvement with the next woman he sees.

Based on what Do2 has posted, everyone else in his WW's life refuses to hold the mirror up to her face and show her just how contemptible she truly is.

I have no problem with him doing it every chance he gets.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Dyokemm said:


> clipclop,
> 
> Well based on what Do2 posted, he actually really could use the help around the house to ease some of the strain of taking care everything for his kids.
> 
> So my advice was mainly practical...if he needs assistance, he should not hesitate to get it.
> 
> Getting a cute college girl to do it isn't necessary, but if it irritates his worthless WW, then I would have no problem with taking a jab at her.
> 
> Do2 could do a million things to show her disdain and disrespect, which she deserves in every way not just for her A but for the allegations of DV and the RO, and it still wouldn't equal the wrong she has done him.
> 
> And she obviously can't take that disdain...hence why she got mad and called him mean when he said he would get some one better...even though it would be da*n near impossible NOT to find improvement with the next woman he sees.
> 
> Based on what Do2 has posted, everyone else in his WW's life refuses to hold the mirror up to her face and show her just how contemptible she truly is.
> 
> I have no problem with him doing it every chance he gets.


And there IS a way to do this and NOT damage her ability to choose healthy co parenting, but create the environment for it.


----------



## LongWalk

Having some woman around to make her jealous will happen naturally in good time.

Dadof2 needs to get through a second and final mourning for the life that is gone.


----------



## Squeakr

LongWalk said:


> Having some woman around to make her jealous will happen naturally in good time.


Only if she still has the slightest of interest in him. If she truly doesn't care then it will mean nothing to her, as she is getting what she wants, whether he is destroyed in the process or not matters none to her.


----------



## warlock07

Breaking off with you is the single most kindest thing she ever did to you during this whole saga. She was honest in that she could 

You won't see it now. Move on and get help with your codependency.


----------



## clipclop2

He shouldn't do anything that isn't purely about him and his kids.

Screw taking emotional energy to try to make the cheater jealous. All that shows is #1 that he still cares and #2 that he wants to maintain a form of pathetic covert combat of the wussy kind.

No question he needs help. He has responsibilities. 

She may or may not be jealous when Dad gets into a real relationship. Who cares? Seriously.


----------



## Openminded

Truthfully? I would have been very surprised if it had worked. Maybe the OM broke up with her for a minute or two and so she decided to implement Plan B (which you are). Who knows what the real story is. Or how many times she will decide to try again. 

You are better off rebuilding your life with your children than you are with someone who isn't really committed to reconciling. Living in a tension-filled home is no better for children than splitting their time with divorced parents. I grew up in a home like that after my father cheated and I would have much preferred my parents divorced. 

You will get through this. And you will have a better life. Maybe not tomorrow or next month but you will.


----------



## just got it 55

Dad I can only say I am speechless

Not surprised but speechless none the less

You know we live in a world where events are unexplainable

The world where we love someone for who they tell us they are
But when we see who they really are you can’t understand or accept the new reality of who they are.

Work through your pain in ways that center you and keep you balanced.

Please tell yourself your roll has ended as her husband.

Don’t persecute yourself finding reason to the madness
There is none other than she is not who she said she was.

She is simply weak, foolish and selfish. Her family is complicate in her failures.

I really like the 100% dad 50% of the time outlook. Focus on that advice and make it your mission.

It’s a perfect plan. By focusing on your children when you have them, nurturing and building your relationship. Making them stronger secure and safe emotionally. It give them the environment for growth in every way.

When you focus on you when you don’t have them you do all the same things in the same way for yourself. This will make you a better dad /man. It’s a win…win.

What a perfect opportunity for a better life.

55


----------



## tryingpatience

Dadof2 hang in there. One thing I've learned through my ordeal and through other single parents is that the kids will adapt. They will adapt really quickly. They don't care that you are separated. They only care that they get to see you and mom. Especially at this young age. 

I knew I would be OK when I saw this with my own eyes. My kids age 3 and 5 are happy kids. Even with our shared arrangement. I thought I couldn't live without my kids but I got use to the schedule too. I'm at the point where I like having my own time without the kids. I can be happy because I see that my kids are. They are fine. They adapted.

It will take time but I believe you can get to that point too.


----------



## jr92gp

dadof2 said:


> I have been reading over our divorce settlement this morning and it brings tears to my eyes thinking of the custody aspect of it. I think of how innocent our two children are in all of this and how much it will effect their lives. I know people divorce every day but it all just seems so selfish in our case. *She said she doesn't know if she can be happy*, so she will choose to ruin 2 precious lives so she can search for her happiness.
> 
> I realize there is nothing I can say to her that will make sense to her. It seems like a rational person would see what she is doing, but I still don't think she gets the severity of this. I told her that last night, that I don't think she understands how big of a deal this is. Like this divorce is like changing out of one dress and into another. I will never understand it or get an explanation from her that helps me understand.


She has no idea where to look for it. How can you find something you already have?


----------



## warlock07

dadof2 said:


> I have been reading over our divorce settlement this morning and it brings tears to my eyes thinking of the custody aspect of it. I think of how innocent our two children are in all of this and how much it will effect their lives. I know people divorce every day but it all just seems so selfish in our case. She said she doesn't know if she can be happy, so she will choose to ruin 2 precious lives so she can search for her happiness.
> 
> I realize there is nothing I can say to her that will make sense to her. It seems like a rational person would see what she is doing, but I still don't think she gets the severity of this. I told her that last night, that I don't think she understands how big of a deal this is. Like this divorce is like changing out of one dress and into another. I will never understand it or get an explanation from her that helps me understand.


...............


I can't even...


----------



## the guy

You gave it a shot and now you know what your old lady is made of.
She couldn't handle it when she started cheating and now she can't handle it when it comes to putting back the family unit!

At the end of the day you gave it a shot but your old lady dropped the ball....and who cares why......

You can walk away knowing its her not you and as sad as that is you gotta dust your self off and take the ball and run.

Don't let this define you....from here on out it's just business...something you need to deal with and then move on. 

I wish you all the best in getting out of this contract called marriage.


----------



## clipclop2

She obviously doesn't have happiness if this is her choice. She is lost. Not everyone can be happy with what appears * should* make them happy. She may never find whatever it is. It has nothing to do with Dad. Nothing. 

He will go on to good things. No idea what she will do.

But she had better remember she is a mom and that trumps all else. If she can't muster up the character to do that then she will spend the rest of her life digging herself out of the guilt ridden existence she had chosen and it won't be pretty.

Since Dad can't change what she does all he can do is shake his head and then press forward. He will have enough smiles and love with the children to make up for the loss of someone who didn't want to be there in the first place.


----------



## jim123

OP

It is not you, it is her. She is not happy with herself. She is looking for the single life. Everything she can not do if she was married.

Move on. That is all you can do.


----------



## happyman64

Dof2

I have a friend who went through what you are going through.

His daughters were 2 & 5 when his wife admitted to the affair. He had no clue.

They tried to reconcile a number of times but her head was a mess and mentally/emotionally his wife declined until she had to be brought to a Doctor for her issues.

She left him and the kids numerous times with great drama.

It wasn't until his kids started showing signs of PTSD that he divorced her.

Where is he now?

Happily remarried. A 3rd daughter just born a month ago. His new wife loves his two other girls and they love their stepsister.

Life continues. Life goes on.

Where is his Ex? Crazy as ever. Letting guys younger than her take advantage of her and sometimes putting her children in bad situations until their Dad steps in.

That will be you as well.

In time.

Now focus on you. Go dark on her except for the kids. Heal.

Make new friends. and in a few months call your sister and tell her you are ready for that date with her friend. 

Do not ever give your STBXW the satisfaction of setting you back. Put up that wall and go be happy.

Without her.

HM


----------



## LongWalk

Sage advice.

Dof2,

No contact, other than your daughters. Look her in the eye. Make unnecessary conversation die with one word responses.

Don't stand with her at joint activities. 

Remember she is going to start appearing in public with OM or a new OM sooner rather than later. That is going to cause fresh hurt if you don't cut her out. Easier said than done but there's no choice.


----------



## IIJokerII

Perhaps what we need to do to support dadof2 is explain what he is feeling now rather what he MAY feel later. People keep telling him that one day she may self implode and he will find someone else, and although this may be true it is lost on deaf ears. 

What Dad feels now is the overlooked feelings of withdrawal, and if truth be told a even larger sense of withdrawal since she began the façade of working things out. This woman may be poison, but to him, right now, she is still his wife and the ability to let it go is just not possible for him right now. Time of course is what is needed and like all injuries they always feel like it takes forever to heal, especially ones inflicted by others, and continuously at that. 

He feels alone, defeated, angry, and empty. In time he will accept what happened and move forward, like we all do, but moving on is another story. He didn't fail, he wasn't weak and his feelings of confliction from wanting her gone to wanting her back will battle for some time. Fortunately for him the outcome of the battle was decided for him by his wife's actions and after he accepts this then he will be ready to move on. 

And remember Dad, it is possible to commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness that is life.


----------



## bandit.45

I guarantee it was never over between her and the OM. She went to MC as a ruse so she could tell everyone she tried. 

Betcha Dad sees her and the OM within a week from now, happily galavanting around together.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

dadof2 said:


> I am dealing with are the rejection by my STBX- it hurts to know that I can't make her happy


You are still blaming yourself, don't do that.

The thing is NOBODY can make her happy, and it wasn't your job to do that in the first place.

The problem isn't you, it's her. You need to understand that odds are regardless of the state of your M this was bound to happen because she always had it in her to cheat. You just were never aware of it.


----------



## 3putt

bandit.45 said:


> I guarantee it was never over between her and the OM. She went to MC as a ruse so she could tell everyone she tried.
> 
> Betcha Dad sees her and the OM within a week from now, happily galavanting around together.


Bet the farm on it.


----------



## IIJokerII

bandit.45 said:


> I guarantee it was never over between her and the OM. She went to MC as a ruse so she could tell everyone she tried.
> 
> Betcha Dad sees her and the OM within a week from now, happily galavanting around together.


Although this is inevitable, in time after the emotional withdrawal he too will move on, she just had a head start. Lets help him get there.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Well Do2,
I feel for you. I really do.
I approached the marriage the same way you did and she still bailed on me. I didn’t know it at the time, but there was someone on the sidelines.
My ex would go through all kinds of funky stuff distancing then closing in etc.
In the end, I was actually glad to see her move out as it was such a relief.

Your best revenge right now is to live a great life. I know “everybody says this”. That’s because it’s true.
Take the time to work on yourself and your relationship with your kids. Be a great dad. Be supportive and kiss them and hug a LOT.
Try not to get down on yourself that you could not pull it off.
Marriage is like two people holding a rubber band.
One lets go, the other gets hurt.

My favorite part about dual custody was both weeks! One was Dad week. Taking care of Gooby and Boo. Nicknames.
But then , when they get picked up, it was Secret Agent Week!
Dating , drinking, screwing around with nobody to ***** about it. Binge TV, mowing and sweeping. Whatever I wanted to do. Whatever I wanted to eat. Ice cream for breakfast? No problem? Food hotter than hades? Bring it! 
Sometimes I would dress up just before she got there so I could kiss the kids goodbye and tell them “Well, wish me luck tonight!”
Then they would ask what for and I would throw out “A date with (insert random sexy name here).”
Never underestimate the healing power of purposely screwing with your ex’s head from time to time..

Make a habit of calling your kids to say goodnight when they are at your ex’s house. This really helped them out…plus if you are on a date it melts the ladies like butter.
Trust me on this. Can’t tell you how many times I got great sex just from this. 

This above all…
Sleep well at night KNOWING that you gave this your best shot. Don’t second guess as it seems you tried to do it right.
Sometimes you may even have to say it out loud “You did the best you could. You didn’t stray and you didn’t cheat and you held up your end. The failure was your partner.”
That’s just the way life can be sometimes.

You remind me of me, so I’ll tell you that “The Four Agreements” was the book that really drove it home for me and allowed me to accept what had happened.
It was by far the best book out of the many I read and listened to. 

Live well and let her see it.
Quality men attract quality women.
Cheating women attract cheating men.

Karma will eventually give you all you need to smile. 


----------



## Chaparral

Jmho, but I believe you could have stopped all this if you had blown up posom in the beginning and literally forced him out of town to find work. Another poster did it and still let's the school boards know when he moves into their area.

The good news is, you didn't.

You're rid of a woman

That cheats
That medicates her self morning and night
That lies
That's selfish
That lies about you
That cheats
That breaks up her family
That's educated but stupid
That has no concern for her childrens future
That cheats with a skanky boss
And many other things that make her an awful person and most of all a bad mother.

Unless you are totally incompetent, you will find a girlfriend that is Miss America by comparison. You will smile when you look back on this like so many here have. You can even have more children and have fun doing it.

Work on yourself, read mmslp, workout, and go out.

If things are hard to handle find a counslor qualified to treat ptsd, it works and this is major trauma. Do it for your kids. Go dark on your ex but when you do see her be really cheerful. Fake it till you make it.


----------



## dadof2

Don't have time for a long post at the moment, but wow, some great responses!! 

Joker- Thanks for shedding light on where I'm at currently. I know where I want to be but its nice to know someone else knows what I'm currently dealing with.

Samurai- Great advice man, I have read that post several times and I get giddy thinking about it.

Funny thing is that today I thought I would be broken down and a zombie, but I have actually been okay. Keeping busy at work, and almost feel a sense of relief. Had a good IC session last night and she helped hammer home that I did all I could do and its not about me, its about her.

Will be back this afternoon to flesh out a little more, keep the responses coming guys.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> Don't have time for a long post at the moment, but wow, some great responses!!
> 
> Joker- Thanks for shedding light on where I'm at currently. I know where I want to be but its nice to know someone else knows what I'm currently dealing with.
> 
> Samurai- Great advice man, I have read that post several times and I get giddy thinking about it.
> 
> Funny thing is that today I thought I would be broken down and a zombie, but I have actually been okay. Keeping busy at work, and almost feel a sense of relief. Had a good IC session last night and she helped hammer home that I did all I could do and its not about me, its about her.
> 
> Will be back this afternoon to flesh out a little more, keep the responses coming guys.


:smthumbup:
Good you are not wallowing in pity keep it up and take out that facebook friend and other ladies.


----------



## SamuraiJack

dadof2 said:


> .
> 
> Samurai- Great advice man, I have read that post several times and I get giddy thinking about it.
> 
> Funny thing is that today I thought I would be broken down and a zombie, but I have actually been okay. Keeping busy at work, and almost feel a sense of relief. Had a good IC session last night and she helped hammer home that I did all I could do and its not about me, its about her.
> 
> Will be back this afternoon to flesh out a little more, keep the responses coming guys.


Secret Agent Week is the BEST!
Imagine college but with no classes! 
I bought myself a motorcycle and a hot tub!

Its even better when you take time off from work...

I get the Zombie thing. 
But that mantra is for you to NOT go there and you CAN hold your head up because you DID try your absolute best.

You will have your ups and downs and sometimes you will need to get a little angry or a little sad. But you can rest easy knowing these are real emotions NOT designed to snow yourself.

Now that you are growing again you will come to trust yourself and enjoy yourself more and more.

This time in your life marks the end of one time and the beginning of another.
You have hard won knowledge and experience that will make you even more formidable than before.

Its a great feeling to look at yourself in the mirror and KNOW you just came out of one of the nastiest storms in your life and the scars just make you look better.

Welcome back to the World of Men!!


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Do you think you can convince STBXW to some agreement for when you or her do start to begin dating others, that your children will not be exposed for a healthy period of time (6 months?, a year?, etc).

and keep recording any further discussions with her for your own protection.


----------



## LongWalk

Was tough week for you Dof2. Hope this weekend has not been too depressing.


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> Was tough week for you Dof2. Hope this weekend has not been too depressing.


Thanks for checking in. I just finished lunch now resting on the couch watching some football. It was a pretty good weekend, I did not have the kids so I went to a buddies house Friday after work and helped him do some work in his man cave. Yesterday I got up early and took a nice jog- it's funny in the last couple of weeks when STBX and I have been spending more time together- I got away from my workout routine. Now I'm getting back on it and am scheduled to run another 5k in 2 weeks. I ran some errands around town and just tried to take my mind off of things. 

I feel like I know where I need to be, but I am still feeling down at times. Especially right when I wake up in the empty house. One of the biggest hurts for me is that she chose the om over me. I guess its a guy thing, I feel like everything is a competition. It hurts me to think she could be happier with someone else rather than with me. I know that she isn't such a great prize but I guess the rejection still stings.

Funny thing, she texted me a picture of our daughter this morning. She fixed her hair a different way and wanted me to see it. I thought it was kind of weird for her to send that. I didn't even respond. I'm trying to detach as much as possible. One thing I am going to start doing is calling and talking to the kids each night before they go to bed on her nights with them. They are only 4 and 2 but I think it will do them good to hear from me everyday. We haven't done that in the last, it was always when they were with her she had them all the time and vice versa. I was just worried that she would take that as me trying to keep in contact with her, but I think now that she knows it will just be about the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Dof2

Remember how we always say most WS's affair down.

She did not choose someone over you.

In a year or two, maybe sooner, you will see that.

She chose a cheater. The OM chose a cheater.

Relationships that start with that type of foundation eventually crumble.

And she has shown you her true colors. She lied about her affair. She lied about the abuse.

She chose poorly. 

SO chin up.

All we ask is that when you do replace her and you will.

That you replace her with someone awesome. Someone that will love you and your kids. That you choose wisely.

You are doing great. And from this mess will come great things for you.

Make it happen!

HM


----------



## RV9

Keep all the evidence secure. When your children grow up they should know the truth. Rather than being vengeful, I believe it is educational. If their mom could do that to them, so can anyone else they may have a relationship within their adult life.


----------



## clipclop2

That's a trap if your daughter knows the text was sent. I hope she doesn't know.

If she does be straight up and tell your STBX not to send the texts.


----------



## Chaparral

With her issues , you will look back on this as a good thing.
I saw a College Humor video this week about drugs and adderal was one of the drugs being lampooned.

You will be better than friends me. So art letting people know you are dating. It is the best thing to take the sting off.

By the way , women are attracted to muscles not runners. Hahahahahaaaaa


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## RV9

Chaparral said:


> By the way , women are attracted to muscles not runners. Hahahahahaaaaa


Muscles? Meh.. A fat wallet triumphs all


----------



## clipclop2

A big...

Good heart, work ethic, intelligent, huge sense of humor.... If you have that you can also probably make a decent living. Doesn't need to bea fat wallet.


----------



## LongWalk

dadof2 said:


> Funny thing, she texted me a picture of our daughter this morning. She fixed her hair a different way and wanted me to see it. I thought it was kind of weird for her to send that. I didn't even respond. I'm trying to detach as much as possible.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That was the correct response. Your ex is trying to jack you around emotionally. She is not done with you yet. She is the kind of parent who will get your daughters ears pierced without consulting you, knowing that it will p!ss you off.

She is also likely to complain about problems with her future boyfriends. Sounds crazy but I'll bet she'll follow the same pattern as in the past. Overnight babysitting OM's kids. How could she say such stuff without at least subconsciously deciding to throw you off balance?

You did not explain what your increased time together during this false R meant, but if you were intimate, you can now see that this was also a mind fvck. And if you weren't intimate, she was probably teasing you.

I am all for R and believed that you had a chance but your WW is covered by this song.

Actually here is a better one


----------



## bandit.45

If it's not directly related to the process of kid transfer, or settling the divorce issues, do not correspond with her at all. Don't even acknowledge her existence. Ignore these little sh!tty friend-zone messages. Just ignore them. Don't answer at all. 

Pretty soon she will get the message that she cannot manipulate you this way and she will desist.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> If it's not directly related to the process of kid transfer, or settling the divorce issues, do not correspond with her at all. Don't even acknowledge her existence. Ignore these little sh!tty friend-zone messages. Just ignore them. Don't answer at all.
> 
> Pretty soon she will get the message that she cannot manipulate you this way and she will desist.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
running is good but start lifting weights.


----------



## tom67

Dadof2
It could be worse...
Destrehan High School teacher Shelley Dufresne had 'prior sexual encounters' with student, police say | NOLA.com
There is a thread here in cwi.


----------



## NoChoice

Dof2,
You've gotten so much good advice, opinions and support that there isn't really anything I can add other than I could feel your pain as I read each post. The thing is you cared about this woman, deeply. Unfortunately it was not reciprocated.

Remember this though, it's not that you couldn't make her happy it's that she couldn't make her happy. This OM didn't make her happy and she likely will never be happy because it needs to come from inside.

Happiness is subjective and happy people make themselves happy by working to change that which they can and accepting that which they cannot. And by having the intellect to see and understand the difference. 

Your STBXW does not have that level of intellect therefore her quest for "happiness" supersedes her concern for you, her children, her family, everything. Remember there is simply nothing you could have done to change that.

Your quest now is to find the mate that will reciprocate your deep affection. You will not always wake in an empty house nor be a single dad unless you choose to. This situation will be temporary, not permanent as you stated previously. It's up to you. Instead of focusing on that which you cannot change, redirect your focus onto that which you can.

Take your SIL's friend out for a drinks, get out there, find the mate that will make your house a home again. Find the woman who validates you and is validated by you, she's out there waiting. Good luck to you and your family.


----------



## tom67

NoChoice said:


> Dof2,
> You've gotten so much good advice, opinions and support that there isn't really anything I can add other than I could feel your pain as I read each post. The thing is you cared about this woman, deeply. Unfortunately it was not reciprocated.
> 
> Remember this though, it's not that you couldn't make her happy it's that she couldn't make her happy. This OM didn't make her happy and she likely will never be happy because it needs to come from inside.
> 
> Happiness is subjective and happy people make themselves happy by working to change that which they can and accepting that which they cannot. And by having the intellect to see and understand the difference.
> 
> Your STBXW does not have that level of intellect therefore her quest for "happiness" supersedes her concern for you, her children, her family, everything. Remember there is simply nothing you could have done to change that.
> 
> Your quest now is to find the mate that will reciprocate your deep affection. You will not always wake in an empty house nor be a single dad unless you choose to. This situation will be temporary, not permanent as you stated previously. It's up to you. Instead of focusing on that which you cannot change, redirect your focus onto that which you can.
> 
> Take your SIL's friend out for a drinks, get out there, find the mate that will make your house a home again. Find the woman who validates you and is validated by you, she's out there waiting. Good luck to you and your family.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
And if your wife keeps self medicating she will spiral downward.
You will witness this.


----------



## azteca1986

NoChoice said:


> Remember this though, it's not that you couldn't make her happy it's that she couldn't make her happy. This OM didn't make her happy and she likely will never be happy because it needs to come from inside.
> 
> Happiness is subjective and happy people make themselves happy by working to change that which they can and accepting that which they cannot. And by having the intellect to see and understand the difference.


This is the thing, Dadof2, you nor anyone else can make your wife happy. *It was never a choice of OM vs You. * You were the only one in her life that would hold her accountable for her actions. And she could not face that.

*She chose:
*Not accepting that she's selfish. Not examining the fact that not only did she betray you, she made false allegations about you and wrecked the lives of her children for no good reason. That would be too painful for her because she would have to look at herself (not a pretty sight). She chose her "you go girl" colleagues, the cheating OM and her parents who have never held her accountable either. She chose to keep the false facade she shows to the world rather than examine, understand and change the real, selfish 'her'. 

She chose the easy path of no consequences, just as she's always done. She'll do it again with the next poor b*stard she chooses to inflict herself upon. 

Her selfish choices, just like her happiness, have very little to do with you, Dadof2.


----------



## LongWalk

Agree with you, Azteca. However, Dof2 has to beware of getting into similar relationship again. Striving to make his WW happy was a mistake. He is still considering what that means. It will take time to digest the lessons he has learned.


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## Blossom Leigh

To keep her from thinking you dont care about the kids since that will eventually be heard by the kids, I would not stay silent on pics she sends. I would say "Thank you for the pic" and nothing else. You can 180 her, but allowing kids to get swept up in that 180 is ill advised.


----------



## LongWalk

Good advice. Pics of your kids are fine. Note: pic of your daughter is part of your WW's neediness. That will not disappear, unless she does hard work in therapy.

Also, remember that your WW is only lying part of the time. When she gets all emotional and impulsive, she does believe that she lives you, even to the point sexual attraction. But then she gets caught up by the hunger for sexual and emotional novelty. She is conflicted.

As you distance yourself, you become novel. When she is attracted to the new you, she discovers you are still the needy nice guy. This pattern may not be over because she is driven by her desires and not rationality.

There is every prospect that in a year or two she will be unhappy with the men who got into her pants. Get ready for new drama down the road.

Take up a sport to increase your self awareness. Judo, rock climbing, underwater hockey, CrossFit. These challenges will absorb you attention. There are babes out there that you can practice flirt with while you heal.


----------



## IIJokerII

Blossom Leigh said:


> To keep her from thinking you dont care about the kids since that will eventually be heard by the kids, I would not stay silent on pics she sends. I would say "Thank you for the pic" and nothing else. You can 180 her, but allowing kids to get swept up in that 180 is ill advised.



His replies to her involving the pictures she sends him will carry little weight in the future in regards to his children's perception of him. Although I do agree he should respond, one word only replies should be all he sends her such as "received" or "acknowledged". These stoic yet affirming responses will not only send the message of what he wants as acceptable communication but will prevent and buildup of feelings between them. He is vulnerable right not and a simple thank you to her can, if not will, invite further follow up responses that will at first involve the children then evolve into "how are you doing/what's up" persuasion. 

So long as he does not bad mouth their mother to them or otherwise attempt to introduce any negative perception about her to them they will in time come to understand what happened and who was the one who instigated this situation. Any attempt by her to convince him he does not care about the children by not engaging in typical or casual conversation is nothing more than hoovering. His interactions with his children is all the proof they will need to feel that he not only cares about them, but loves them enough to talk about their mother in front of them with no negativity whatsoever.


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> You did not explain what your increased time together during this false R meant, but if you were intimate, you can now see that this was also a mind fvck. And if you weren't intimate, she was probably teasing you.


During our 2 weeks of spending more time together, we kissed twice. The first time we were on the couch at my place watching tv and we were talking and holding hands. I leaned in and we had a few deep kisses. She actually cried afterwards saying she never thought she would get to kiss me again. Then a few days later we had went to MC together and she came by the house to help put the kids to bed. We kissed deeply again.

Its funny, when she called to tell me she's not in love with me, one of the things she mentioned was that when we kissed she didn't feel anything. She said she tried very hard to feel something and its not there, so she knows its over.

She is in a fantasyland. I guess she was expecting fireworks to go off and the choir to start singing when she kissed. I guess OM just does it for her. It's kind of a shot to the ego, but I mean come on, are we 16 years old here still tingling from our first kiss?? At this point all I can do is shake my head...


----------



## clipclop2

What did you feel?


----------



## IIJokerII

dadof2 said:


> During our 2 weeks of spending more time together, we kissed twice. The first time we were on the couch at my place watching tv and we were talking and holding hands. I leaned in and we had a few deep kisses. She actually cried afterwards saying she never thought she would get to kiss me again. Then a few days later we had went to MC together and she came by the house to help put the kids to bed. We kissed deeply again.
> 
> Its funny, when she called to tell me she's not in love with me, one of the things she mentioned was that when we kissed she didn't feel anything. She said she tried very hard to feel something and its not there, so she knows its over.
> 
> She is in a fantasyland. I guess she was expecting fireworks to go off and the choir to start singing when she kissed. I guess OM just does it for her. It's kind of a shot to the ego, but I mean come on, are we 16 years old here still tingling from our first kiss?? At this point all I can do is shake my head...


Your confusion is her goal, resist. Actions without consequences invite entitlement. Hold her to her words and actions. She wanted a RO, prevent any scenario which would abate isolation from the publics eye, digital medium(s) or face to face, as not a way of proving her right but protecting yourself as well as inconveniencing her, holding her responsible for her actions . She want's a divorce, do what it takes to accelerate it, push for it hard. Become passively cynical and illustrate a literal sense about HER requests, past and present. You made your point clear about what you want as well as need and still the selfishness could not be suppressed on her part.

Your post this morning indicate some level of acceptance has began to process within you. Explore that avenue and reinforce it since it is the only truth you can depend on right now. Beware those residual feelings of love and the memories of once was are normal, this is part of the mourning process. It will pass.


----------



## warlock07

> Funny thing, she texted me a picture of our daughter this morning. She fixed her hair a different way and wanted me to see it. I thought it was kind of weird for her to send that. I didn't even respond. I'm trying to detach as much as possible. '


Where did I hear this before ?



> She is in a fantasyland. I guess she was expecting fireworks to go off and the choir to start singing when she kissed. I guess OM just does it for her. It's kind of a shot to the ego, but I mean come on, are we 16 years old here still tingling from our first kiss?? At this point all I can do is shake my head...


What if more baffling is your attraction to her than her lack of it for you. You said you went for the kisses both the times. You base your ego on what she thinks of you. You got desperate.

You did not learn anything dadof2. You show improvement and then regress pretty fast.

Hard to kick a man when he is down but some things need to be said.


----------



## LongWalk

Your WW doesn't desire you. But she may think that she does in the future when she sees you dating and wants to reclaim you. Be careful. Her emotions drive her.

If she sends you pictures, you can reply "Got it" or "Thanks!" Treat her with polite, friendly indifference.

Keep running. 

Go with friends to listen to the best local bands. Do you know the Indie scene in your area?

Your WW is going change her mind about herself in a year and half. She will be less impressed with new penises and more impressed with solid relationships. But she will probably remain broken, unless she get IC. Read LostLove's thread


----------



## IIJokerII

warlock07 said:


> You did not learn anything dadof2. You show improvement and then regress pretty fast.
> 
> Hard to kick a man when he is down but some things need to be said.


His regression I am sure is unintended and then in turn fueled by his residual feelings toward her. Given his comments this morning he appears to be leaning towards the side of moving on, and forward.


----------



## azteca1986

dadof2 said:


> She is in a fantasyland. I guess she was expecting fireworks to go off and the choir to start singing when she kissed. I guess OM just does it for her.


Of course he does, he's a fellow cheater. Much more her type. 

When you kissed her she was kissing the good man she betrayed and had spent weeks and months demonising in private and public. Knowing how shabbily she treated you is what gets in the way of 'fireworks and tingles'. Her baggage. As ever.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Blossom Leigh said:


> To keep her from thinking you dont care about the kids since that will eventually be heard by the kids, I would not stay silent on pics she sends. I would say "Thank you for the pic" and nothing else. You can 180 her, but allowing kids to get swept up in that 180 is ill advised.


Be aware that she will use the kids as a way to engage you. It starts out as an innocent comment about the kids...then it turns into fighting. Be very cautious with your replies.
One of the nasiets exchanges we ever had was titled "Driving lessons for XXXXX"

Run silent...run deep.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



azteca1986 said:


> Of course he does, he's a fellow cheater. Much more her type.
> 
> When you kissed her she was kissing the good man she betrayed and had spent weeks and months demonising in private and public. Knowing how shabbily she treated you is what gets in the way of 'fireworks and tingles'. Her baggage. As ever.


Yeah, the no sparks thing is just her guilt. Why do you think she cried? It's not that she doesn't have loving feelings for you. It's that she can't have them without also feeling guilt. Since she doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to do the heavy lifting she knows is necessary and deal with the guilt she just takes the easy route and tells you she doesn't love you "that way" anymore. It's got nothing to do with you, it's her flawed character once again dictating her actions.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



bfree said:


> Yeah, the no sparks thing is just her guilt. Why do you think she cried? It's not that she doesn't have loving feelings for you. It's that she can't have them without also feeling guilt. Since she doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to do the heavy lifting she knows is necessary and deal with the guilt she just takes the easy route and tells you she doesn't love you "that way" anymore. It's got nothing to do with you, it's her flawed character once again dictating her actions.


This is on point. QFT.


----------



## happyman64

No sparks may be her feeling guilt be she is on drugs. Strong ones.

How well is her mind working during all these months???

Lies.
Cheating.
False Domestic abuse claims.
Restraining Order.
False Reconciliation.
The OM has his own issues and bad marital history.

The WW has serious mental issues. And the decline of her life will be sad to watch.

Focus on you Dof2 and your kids.

Because they are going to need you in the future. More than you realize.

HM


----------



## NoChoice

dadof2 said:


> She is in a fantasyland. I guess she was expecting fireworks to go off and the choir to start singing when she kissed. I guess OM just does it for her. It's kind of a shot to the ego, but I mean come on, *are we 16 years old here still tingling from our first kiss*?? At this point all I can do is shake my head...


That's exactly it. Let me explain. As advanced cognizant beings, our lives require varying levels of intellect in order to behave and respond in a reasonable manner. Unfortunately for many on this planet, the intellectual development required never occurs. When this happens, the resultant individual develops physically but not mentally. You called it fantasyland but it is actually retardation. We are all at varying levels of mental retardation with some being much less developed than others.

So you see, absent the necessary development required to be content and satisfied with what a person has, they have this overwhelming, perpetual want for new, better, more. The other man didn't "do it for her" as you put it. He was nothing more than the "next great thing" in her life that was going to bring her happiness. It is not that you didn't do it for her but rather you were an old toy and she saw a new toy and off she went. It's not that she is behaving like a child, it's that she is a child mentally.

I have explained this to many people but few can accept that a body can develop without the brain developing also. They can't understand that development requires stimulus and without it, the brain simply doesn't build the complex neural network required for advanced intellect. Have you ever heard "you can't fix stupid"? There is a world of truth in that statement. Once the brain stops building new pathways that person is set for life at whatever level of mental development they have reached.

Think of this logically. Your wife had a devoted husband, good provider, attentive and caring father to her kids, what every woman seeks in a mate right? Now consider how many 16 year old girls want these traits in a boyfriend. So I ask you is your wife displaying the mental attributes of a woman or a 16 year old girl? Also consider this, she left the security and comfort of a family to be with a divorced coworker who was willing to be with a married woman. Would a mature woman choose a man of that level of character? Would a 16 year old?

And lastly, would a mature mother put *anything* ahead of the well being of her children? Would a sixteen year old girl?

I will say again, get this thought out of your head that you weren't good enough or that you failed as a mate. You were good enough to provide the only thing your wife needed at the moment which was the next great thing in her life to make her happy. Now after experiencing the husband and family toy she's ready to move on to the next great thing without regard to the damage she is inflicting to all involved. If there is any blame to assign here it should be directed towards her parents and their efforts, or lack thereof, to give their daughter the mental stimulation necessary to cause her to develop mentally and actually grow up. So there is the truth, do with it as you see fit but know one thing, at this age, if your wife hasn't reached a level of mental maturity to be able to see what she is doing to you, her kids and herself then in all probability, she never will. And there is not one damn thing you can do about it. So blame yourself if you want but that actually puts you on the path to fantasyland. Good luck to you.


----------



## turnera

warlock07 said:


> What if more baffling is your attraction to her than her lack of it for you.


It's not baffling. She dumped him. Therefore, he's attracted to her. We want what we can't have. Even if we don't really want it.

As we have told him about a thousand times, if he wants her back - show her his back.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

IIJokerII said:


> His replies to her involving the pictures she sends him will carry little weight in the future in regards to his children's perception of him. Although I do agree he should respond, one word only replies should be all he sends her such as "received" or "acknowledged". These stoic yet affirming responses will not only send the message of what he wants as acceptable communication but will prevent and buildup of feelings between them. He is vulnerable right not and a simple thank you to her can, if not will, invite further follow up responses that will at first involve the children then evolve into "how are you doing/what's up" persuasion.
> 
> So long as he does not bad mouth their mother to them or otherwise attempt to introduce any negative perception about her to them they will in time come to understand what happened and who was the one who instigated this situation. Any attempt by her to convince him he does not care about the children by not engaging in typical or casual conversation is nothing more than hoovering. His interactions with his children is all the proof they will need to feel that he not only cares about them, but loves them enough to talk about their mother in front of them with no negativity whatsoever.


I would be silent on the rest of his status. Or even tell her straight up. "I am not interested in idle chat with you. I appreciate pics and we can discuss child logistics, other than that you are not privy to anything else going on in my life, so don't ask. Thank you."

if she gets nasty... quietly hang up


----------



## Blossom Leigh

SamuraiJack said:


> Be aware that she will use the kids as a way to engage you. It starts out as an innocent comment about the kids...then it turns into fighting. Be very cautious with your replies.
> One of the nasiets exchanges we ever had was titled "Driving lessons for XXXXX"
> 
> Run silent...run deep.


Totally agree with this. If you catch a pattern of manipulation. Call her on it "Do not lower yourself anymore by using our children to manipulate me." possibly even backed up with legal action depending on her degree of manipulation.

I would read up in some books that teach how to recognize the manipulator tactics. Emotional Blackmail is one, Navigating Narcissistic Predicaments, The Emotionally Abusive Relationship and the best website for definitions I have found is Out of the FOG - Personality Disorder Support

And Boundaries by Townsend

Maybe even Coparenting books that focus on healthy so you can keep that vision and boundary her on poor choices. Shut her out of personal life.


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2,

Was your WW a popular girl in high school?

What did she do after high school?

Why did she choose teaching as a profession?

Does she love the subject she teaches?

One of the interesting things about cognitive dissonance, the human inability to hold contradictory valuations, is that we can go to 50,000ft. Your WW rejects you, therefore, to get over her, you have to list her faults to console yourself that the loss is not so terrible. This is a natural process.

There is another aspect – your life becomes so good that the loss becomes an unpleasant memory, and eventually a lesson. Back when I was in college at the huge and impersonal state U, I got into squash and played with a club. One of the women players was a doctoral chemistry student doing research on extreme low temperatures. She was married to an older guy. A full professor of philosophy at two states away. That guy came often to visit. He brought his teenage son. I got to know them. They were all nice people.

One day I had lunch with the teammate at the old women's union. Some how we talked a cheating or something like that. Her eyes lit up. I realized that she thought I might be hitting on her. I was too young and naive to think like that, in fact. In my mind, though, I was flattered and also thought: "Holy shyte, their marriage is doomed."

Sure enough, a few months later she was fvcking another guy in our club. She divorced her husband. Were any of these people evil? No, not really. I don't think she thought of her cheating as good, but it was personal growth. She had married the wrong guy. Her husband had been at different stage of life. I don't know what became of the BH philosophy prof. However, he must have felt really hurt. He lost this young blond wife who was smart if not beautiful.

But I presume he could and should have picked up the pieces and moved on.

Here is a divorced mom's website with a blog about Crossfit.


----------



## dadof2

bfree said:


> Yeah, the no sparks thing is just her guilt. Why do you think she cried? It's not that she doesn't have loving feelings for you. It's that she can't have them without also feeling guilt. Since she doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to do the heavy lifting she knows is necessary and deal with the guilt she just takes the easy route and tells you she doesn't love you "that way" anymore. It's got nothing to do with you, it's her flawed character once again dictating her actions.


Wow great post. Thanks for the insight!! I am feeling a little better each day that I did all I could do and that she just wasn't up to it in the end. She has chosen the path of least resistance like she always has. I didn't make her to "hard" things, but compared to GNO's and no strings dates with OM, I guess going out for ice cream with me and the kids just doesn't rank high on her priority list. It hurts me to think that I chose this women to begin with.

I talked to her sister last week, she seems to agree with me. She said that she doesn't understand how STBX can be so immature. She also said that she doesn't get how her parents can be so blinded by her stories. To paraphrase SIL- My parents are intelligent people, I just don't understand how they can see STBX do this time and time again and still think that everyone else is the problem.

That made me feel good that someone close to STBX sees things the way I see it. SIL is a good person and a good friend to me. But I realize that at the end of the day I am disposable even to her, and that's okay. At the beginning of this whole ordeal I was very adamant about getting validation from her parents, but my therapist (and TAM) helped me see that their understanding is not important to me. I was really hung up on that for a while, but I realize that I will never get satisfaction from it, so I have quit worrying about it.


----------



## LongWalk

> At the beginning of this whole ordeal I was very adamant about getting validation from her parents, but my therapist (and TAM) helped me see that their understanding is not important to me. I was really hung up on that for a while, but I realize that I will never get satisfaction from it, so I have quit worrying about it.


Very good. You will quit worrying about a lot of her nonsense. Where her head is at will cease to become a concern. You won't care. She will be surprized but so what?


----------



## IIJokerII

dadof2 said:


> Wow great post. Thanks for the insight!! I am feeling a little better each day that I did all I could do and that she just wasn't up to it in the end. She has chosen the path of least resistance like she always has. I didn't make her to "hard" things, but compared to GNO's and no strings dates with OM, I guess going out for ice cream with me and the kids just doesn't rank high on her priority list. It hurts me to think that I chose this women to begin with.


 Your right, going out and partying and dates and whatever is simply not as fun as going out for ice cream with the kids or a movie, or baseball game, or school play, or bedtime stories, or bath time, or getting them up for school, or trips to the doctor, or snuggle time..................... 

This list could go on forever and the people who view marriage, parenthood and family as a endless job that taxes one to the very limit of mental, emotional and physical tolerance are already defeated. Those who view it a challenge to contort to for the lives of those who chose to enter it (Marriage) or not (Children) knowing full well that little, if any, appreciating will be reciprocated back from those we care about yet accept them to their soul as loved ones, no matter their faults. 

You, we all, cannot and do not know how our lives will turn out once involved with a potential friend, lover or spouse. Most people who plant seeds labeled Roses will always be surprised when poison ivy grown instead (Yes, I know poison ivy is a rooted plant, no need for accuracy here Lol), we all never know until we do. 

And don't think for a second she is not self aware at what she has done either. The increase in GNO's and other pre-infidelity behavior is only a cover, for herself, to help validate the selfish behavior. In time, one day, you will have the validating satisfaction of watching her fall, or worse, slide into rock bottom and then, and only then can you look with prideful eyes, say nothing, produce an involuntary smirk, and shake your head accordingly.


----------



## warlock07

turnera said:


> It's not baffling. She dumped him. Therefore, he's attracted to her. We want what we can't have. Even if we don't really want it.
> 
> As we have told him about a thousand times, if he wants her back - show her his back.


That is broken thinking and that is what I meant by my post. It is not healthy.


" if he wants her back - show her his back " - This was the broken logic that put him in the position he is in. The 180 is not a manipulation tool to win your spouse back. 

I'm not even sure why he thought he had a chance!!! And through his desperateness and over eagerness, he lost any chance he might have had.


----------



## dadof2

warlock07 said:


> I'm not even sure why he thought he had a chance!!! And through his desperateness and over eagerness, he lost any chance he might have had.


I don't think I was ever desperate to have her back. I may have wanted her back but I don't think I ever showed her any desperation. Maybe over eagerness once we started doing things together again, but that is just how I am. If we were gonna try to make it work, I was gonna be all in. One of the things she told our therapist in our MC session was that it scared her when she thought I was done with the marriage. I don't think she would feel that way if I had been desperate.


----------



## LongWalk

How long until the divorce is final?

Did you ever speak with OM ex wife?


----------



## SF-FAN

dadof2 said:


> I don't think I was ever desperate to have her back. I may have wanted her back but I don't think I ever showed her any desperation. Maybe over eagerness once we started doing things together again, but that is just how I am. If we were gonna try to make it work, I was gonna be all in. One of the things she told our therapist in our MC session was that it scared her when she thought I was done with the marriage. I don't think she would feel that way if I had been desperate.


Your STBX is not done with you. She will be back, trust me when I tell you that. The moment you start to completely move on (especially with someone else) she will be back and all of a sudden want to work things out. 

What happened was that she was afraid you were completely done with the marriage so she came back to see if you were. She found out she still had a chance so it eased her mind and now she's back to "not wanting you." It's about control. It's about knowing if you still want her or not.

It's not your fault. You want to have your family back - you did all the right things. I am and have been in your same situation.


----------



## IIJokerII

dadof2 said:


> I don't think I was ever desperate to have her back. I may have wanted her back but I don't think I ever showed her any desperation. Maybe over eagerness once we started doing things together again, but that is just how I am. If we were gonna try to make it work, I was gonna be all in. One of the things she told our therapist in our MC session was that it scared her when she thought I was done with the marriage. I don't think she would feel that way if I had been desperate.


Her comments to the MC are her merely gas lighting herself into believing her actions have just. Digress the statement and you have some one noble enough to admit that between all the emotional and psychological trauma they instilled upon you then only after display shock due to their reactive behavior and feelings. 

In truth, she should've displayed shock and wonder that you were willing to move forward with her despite her treatment of you.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

SF-FAN said:


> Your STBX is not done with you. She will be back, trust me when I tell you that. The moment you start to completely move on (especially with someone else) she will be back and all of a sudden want to work things out.
> 
> What happened was that she was afraid you were completely done with the marriage so she came back to see if you were. She found out she still had a chance so it eased her mind and now she's back to "not wanting you." It's about control. It's about knowing if you still want her or not.
> 
> It's not your fault. You want to have your family back - you did all the right things. I am and have been in your same situation.


very astute observation... its the gut feel I have too


----------



## dadof2

SF-FAN said:


> Your STBX is not done with you. She will be back, trust me when I tell you that. The moment you start to completely move on (especially with someone else) she will be back and all of a sudden want to work things out.
> 
> What happened was that she was afraid you were completely done with the marriage so she came back to see if you were. She found out she still had a chance so it eased her mind and now she's back to "not wanting you." It's about control. It's about knowing if you still want her or not.
> 
> It's not your fault. You want to have your family back - you did all the right things. I am and have been in your same situation.


Thanks SF. I was hoping to see you post again in this thread. Like someone else told me, she will probably be back, but now I can take that as a warning rather than use it for false hope.

I totally agree that she was just testing the waters to see how far she could go and still keep me here. Well I am done with that. I am trying to move on, and I know it goes up and down daily, but I have been here before and it seems like each time it gets a little easier to detach.

These next 2 days will be tough on me because they are the first nights that STBX will not have the kids since telling me she doesn't have any feelings for me. No doubt she will be with OM, and it just makes my stomach turn to think about it. Not even a week ago she was with me and "trying" to make it work, and now in the blink of an eye, its back to him. It doesn't affect me nearly as bad as it did after DDay obviously, but I am just having all those old anxious feelings again.


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> How long until the divorce is final?
> 
> Did you ever speak with OM ex wife?


We are at the 6 month mark of our separation this month. So 6 more months to go. We have already signed off on custody, visitation, and child support arrangements. The last thing we have to settle is CP. After her phone call last week, I called my lawyer the next day and told her to go ahead and polish up our agreement and send it to her. My lawyer had run the numbers a month or so ago and we have just been sitting on it to see how this attempt at R went. Once the CP is done, then it is simply waiting on the 12 month separation period to pass.

I never spoke with OM ex wife. My PI did a lot of digging into his background and couldn't find anything fishy in their divorce proceedings, so we decided not to push for anything.


----------



## turnera

warlock07 said:


> That is broken thinking and that is what I meant by my post. It is not healthy.
> 
> 
> " if he wants her back - show her his back " - This was the broken logic that put him in the position he is in. The 180 is not a manipulation tool to win your spouse back.
> 
> I'm not even sure why he thought he had a chance!!! And through his desperateness and over eagerness, he lost any chance he might have had.


Ok, let me CAREFULLY rephrase my sentence and spend twice as much time so as to not be misconstrued by someone like you. 

He can't nice his WW or FWW back. He has to be willing to lose her by actually LOSING her to have any hope of her coming to her senses because she will then do the same thing he did - want what she can't have/admire the person who moved on. And in the meantime, him showing her his back - by moving on and having a fulfilling life without her - is the one thing he needs to do in the first place ANYWAY since he can't control another person and he needs it for his own sanity.

Better?


----------



## turnera

SF-FAN said:


> Your STBX is not done with you. She will be back, trust me when I tell you that. The moment you start to completely move on (especially with someone else) she will be back and all of a sudden want to work things out.
> 
> What happened was that she was afraid you were completely done with the marriage so she came back to see if you were. She found out she still had a chance so it eased her mind and now she's back to "not wanting you." It's about control. It's about knowing if you still want her or not.


Exactly.


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> Thanks SF. I was hoping to see you post again in this thread. Like someone else told me, she will probably be back, but now I can take that as a warning rather than use it for false hope.
> 
> I totally agree that she was just testing the waters to see how far she could go and still keep me here. Well I am done with that. I am trying to move on, and I know it goes up and down daily, but I have been here before and it seems like each time it gets a little easier to detach.


Have you read Lifescript's thread? It might help you.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

dadof2 said:


> .... No doubt she will be with OM, and it just makes my stomach turn to think about it. Not even a week ago she was with me and "trying" to make it work, and now in the blink of an eye, its back to him..


Are you sure she actually has gone back to him? Some guys don't want to be caught up in drama, and there is a chance he may decide you STBXW has too many issues to deal with. Obviously she has not been honest with you (or even to herself), but during your last reconciliation attempt, do you think POSOM was just waiting on the sidelines?

Again, as mentioned before, I know it's hard to legislate into a separation/divorce agreement, but do you think it's worth a try to civilly request that she doesn't expose your children to other men (and obviously the same would apply to you)....somewhat of a gentlemen agreement?


----------



## SF-FAN

dadof2 said:


> Thanks SF. I was hoping to see you post again in this thread. Like someone else told me, she will probably be back, but now I can take that as a warning rather than use it for false hope.
> 
> I totally agree that she was just testing the waters to see how far she could go and still keep me here. Well I am done with that. I am trying to move on, and I know it goes up and down daily, but I have been here before and it seems like each time it gets a little easier to detach.
> 
> These next 2 days will be tough on me because they are the first nights that STBX will not have the kids since telling me she doesn't have any feelings for me. No doubt she will be with OM, and it just makes my stomach turn to think about it. Not even a week ago she was with me and "trying" to make it work, and now in the blink of an eye, its back to him. It doesn't affect me nearly as bad as it did after DDay obviously, but I am just having all those old anxious feelings again.


My WW did the same thing to me. Broke down one night, started crying and apologizing for everything and said she didn't know how but wanted to fix everything. That lasted about 2 days then she reverted back to her cold ways. Like you, I was glad to hear her apologize and let my guard down but now I know.

I don't know if my WW is still seeing POSOM or if she'd just rather claim to "be single" but I realized I can't worry about it or control her. No matter what she does, her true colors will eventually come out and people will realize who she is. Don't get me wrong, the mind movies and wondering does still get to me but little by little it's getting easier.

Hopefully next time your STBX does try to come back you'll be in a relationship with someone that STBX can't even begin to compare to.


----------



## Nucking Futs

turnera said:


> Have you read Lifescript's thread? It might help you.


Yikes, turnera, why so harsh?


----------



## dadof2

Well apparently STBX got work that I talked to her sister. She was not too happy about it. She texted me saying that if I want to talk about our relationship it should be with her and her only.

I told her that I was talking to her sister as a friend and that she has made these choices and I am the only one who chooses not to ignore it.

She then said that how her family feels about her "choices" (she put it in quotes, not sure why) is none of my business. She then said "My personal life is no longer your concern. I want to focus on being civil and being good parents."

I then told her to enjoy her life with OM.

I know I shouldn't have engaged her but I couldn't resist. I guess she made it clear how she feels, lol.

ETA: She continued by saying that I don't want a wife, I want someone I can control and manipulate. I asked her to give me an example of how I have done that in the last 2 weeks. She said by checking her phone, making her call OM while I listened, asking to know where she was when she didn't have the kids, and asking her to change jobs and get rid of toxic friends.

I said that I thought those were steps to rebuild trust but obviously she sees it differently. I said I did all I could do and that she has shown me that I am not what she is looking for. I said if she thinks that I could live with her working with OM every day then our R never had a chance. I said I wish things were different for our children, but I won't bother her anymore.


----------



## happyman64

dadof2 said:


> I don't think I was ever desperate to have her back. I may have wanted her back but I don't think I ever showed her any desperation. Maybe over eagerness once we started doing things together again, but that is just how I am. If we were gonna try to make it work, I was gonna be all in. One of the things she told our therapist in our MC session was that it scared her when she thought I was done with the marriage. I don't think she would feel that way if I had been desperate.


I wonder how she would feel if she knew you were dating someone else???

You also keep saying that she is with the OM. Did she specifically say that they are together again? 

That she chooses to be with OM over you?

And yet you still have not posted either one of them on Cheaterville.....

Or raised some hell with the school board.

They will never respect you until they feel consequences Dof2.


----------



## GusPolinski

Damn. Entitlement at its finest.


----------



## GusPolinski

Dadof2, never doubt this...

She wants you, she wants your marriage, and she wants your family to be whole. She just doesn't want any of it so badly that she's willing to put in any of the hard work involved in a true reconciliation.

She wants to rugsweep, and she wants you to go along w/ it. You've shown that you're not willing to settle for that, and it makes her uneasy. That's why she became so unnerved when you requested that she call OM in your presence. Whether or not she's still seeing him -- and even if she never stopped seeing him -- is really of no consequence.

Stop engaging her. Continue talking w/ her sister, her parents, or whoever as much as you want. If she calls you on it again, either (a) don't take the bait at all or (b) calmly and politely suggest that you can speak w/ whomever you like, and that it's none of her f*cking business.


----------



## GusPolinski

And this... this right here...



dadof2 said:


> She texted me saying that if I want to talk about our relationship it should be with her and her only.


Dude. It's clear as f*cking day. She _WANTS_ you to talk w/ her about your relationship. She wants _YOU_ to pursue _HER_.

I can't help but wonder about whether or not one (or more) of her similarly-boneheaded entitled princess mentality BFFs is whispering some bullsh*t into her ear... something along the lines of... "If he truly wants you, he'll chase you..."

Ugh. Excuse me while I f*cking puke.


----------



## happyman64

What you should have said was this

"You have lied to me.
You have cheated on me.
You have broken up our family.
You have falsely accused me of domestic violence.
You have falsely given testimony to have a restraining order issued to me.
You used the RO to control when I could see my children.


It is you that has controlled and manipulated me for months.

I no longer will allow you to control me or manipulate me.

Have a great life."

Send that in an email to her, her attorney and her family. Or text it to her. 

Then put her and the OM on cheaterville. Never tell them you did it.

Then lodge a complaint to the school board.

Then you will be a great coparent and act civil towards her.

To be civil means she needs To undetstand what civility actually means......

HM


----------



## turnera

If you have to reply again, "If you don't like having the things you do discussed among people, don't do things you don't like having discussed."


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Winning post of the day right there...


----------



## tom67

turnera said:


> If you have to reply again, "If you don't like having the things you do discussed among people, don't do things you don't like having discussed."


This^^^
Do not answer again.
Text only.
Put him on cheaterville and send him and others at school the link.


----------



## bfree

dadof2 said:


> Well apparently STBX got work that I talked to her sister. She was not too happy about it. She texted me saying that if I want to talk about our relationship it should be with her and her only.
> 
> I told her that I was talking to her sister as a friend and that she has made these choices and I am the only one who chooses not to ignore it.
> 
> She then said that how her family feels about her "choices" (she put it in quotes, not sure why) is none of my business. She then said "My personal life is no longer your concern. I want to focus on being civil and being good parents."
> 
> I then told her to enjoy her life with OM.
> 
> I know I shouldn't have engaged her but I couldn't resist. I guess she made it clear how she feels, lol.
> 
> ETA: She continued by saying that I don't want a wife, I want someone I can control and manipulate. I asked her to give me an example of how I have done that in the last 2 weeks. She said by checking her phone, making her call OM while I listened, asking to know where she was when she didn't have the kids, and asking her to change jobs and get rid of toxic friends.
> 
> I said that I thought those were steps to rebuild trust but obviously she sees it differently. I said I did all I could do and that she has shown me that I am not what she is looking for. I said if she thinks that I could live with her working with OM every day then our R never had a chance. I said I wish things were different for our children, but I won't bother her anymore.


She played the control card? She definitely has someone whispering in her ear. Those toxic friends of hers are going to ruin her life....well more than she's already ruined it at any rate. More than likely they're getting off on the drama and lapping it up. They'll keep pushing until there is nothing left to destroy and then they'll say to her "hey don't blame us, it was all your doing."


----------



## LongWalk

LostLove's WW kept him on the same sort of yoyo string that your WW has you on. Hot and cold. Close and distant. Her heart, soul and vagina were the sun; LostLove was a planet that revolved around the nuclear mess.

When LostLove's wife had gone through four or five guys, she agreed to go on holiday with him and his two daughters to attempt to reconnect. Her parents went along to babysit. He got to make out with her a bit but she felt nothing from the kisses and left a day early.

Despairing of ever making his family whole again, he began dating and found a very nice divorced lady. Shortly after that, his wife felt that he was no longer orbiting. She then wanted MC. She said that she had gone through an emotional breakdown and now she wanted to reconcile. We don't know how it ended. I suspect that he could not reconcile and he no longer came to TAM because he had moved on. The pain was over.

This process, from the night she got drunk in a casino and started cheating, to the beginning of self criticism took about a year. LostLove and his daughters suffered more because he hung on as long as he could. Moreover, she tortured him by sharing the sad details about how men were exploiting her for sex. He was supposed to hold her hand after her sexting blew up in her face.

Your WW is very like his.

His thread.


----------



## honcho

dadof2 said:


> Well apparently STBX got work that I talked to her sister. She was not too happy about it. She texted me saying that if I want to talk about our relationship it should be with her and her only.
> 
> I told her that I was talking to her sister as a friend and that she has made these choices and I am the only one who chooses not to ignore it.
> 
> She then said that how her family feels about her "choices" (she put it in quotes, not sure why) is none of my business. She then said "My personal life is no longer your concern. I want to focus on being civil and being good parents."
> 
> I then told her to enjoy her life with OM.
> 
> I know I shouldn't have engaged her but I couldn't resist. I guess she made it clear how she feels, lol.
> 
> ETA: She continued by saying that I don't want a wife, I want someone I can control and manipulate. I asked her to give me an example of how I have done that in the last 2 weeks. She said by checking her phone, making her call OM while I listened, asking to know where she was when she didn't have the kids, and asking her to change jobs and get rid of toxic friends.
> 
> I said that I thought those were steps to rebuild trust but obviously she sees it differently. I said I did all I could do and that she has shown me that I am not what she is looking for. I said if she thinks that I could live with her working with OM every day then our R never had a chance. I said I wish things were different for our children, but I won't bother her anymore.


Just remind her that YOUR business or who you talk to is no longer her concern anymore either. She obviously doesnt want anyone or anything like the facts to get in the way of her fantasyworld. 

As hard as it will be at times the less you engage her the better. She will spin EVERYTHING so you can fulfill the bad guy role....its what they do. You will start to see a different side of her now. You arent playing the game she wants and this will push her buttons.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I would tell her its your perogative who you talk to AND expose her to since she has chosen to leave.


----------



## GusPolinski

happyman64 said:


> You have lied to me.
> You have cheated on me.
> You have broken up our family.
> You have falsely accused me of domestic violence.
> You have falsely given testimony to have a restraining order issued to me.
> You used the RO to control when I could see my children.


I'm not usually one to start thumping the Bible or anything but DAMN... that's gotta be half of the Ten Commandments right there.

LOL


----------



## ConanHub

So.... she can't keep her vagina just between you and her but a conversation about relationships is off limits???:scratchhead:

Heaven forbid you have sex with her sister!

Just being an ass. But it would be funny to see the look on her entitled face.


----------



## GusPolinski

ConanHub said:


> So.... she can't keep her vagina just between you and her but a conversation about relationships is off limits???:scratchhead:
> 
> Heaven forbid you have sex with her sister!
> 
> Just being an ass. But it would be funny to see the look on her entitled face.


Or the sister's.

:smthumbup:

ETA: All joking aside, I believe that Dadof2 mentioned that SIL is married.


----------



## ConanHub

GusPolinski said:


> Or the sister's.
> 
> :smthumbup:
> 
> ETA: All joking aside, I believe that Dadof2 mentioned that SIL is married.


Whoops! Well it was just the concept. the self centered hypocrisy of cheaters just makes my brain hurt!


----------



## tryingpatience

Isn't trying to analyze what she's doing now when she responds part of the mindf*ck? Please just go dark and NC. Get back to that place you were before the false R. You should do what ever you want but don't engage her anymore. Sorry if I sound harsh but I believe it's what you need to get stronger again.


----------



## dadof2

Yes I intend to go dark now. I think I stirred up the Hornets nest with the phone call to STBX's sister last week. She called STBX today and straight up asked her if she was dating OM. STBX said that they were seeing each other over the summer but it ended when school started. SIL then called both parents and told them that they are being lied to and have been made to look like fools to everyone for defending STBX. SIL went into a lot more detail but that's the jist of it.

I know it doesn't mean much at this point but at least I have someone in her family that is not buying all of STBX's bullsh*t. I think it's safe to say that thanksgiving may be a little uneasy at their house. Time to go back to NC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> Yes I intend to go dark now. I think I stirred up the Hornets nest with the phone call to STBX's sister last week. She called STBX today and straight up asked her if she was dating OM. STBX said that they were seeing each other over the summer but it ended when school started. SIL then called both parents and told them that they are being lied to and have been made to look like fools to everyone for defending STBX. SIL went into a lot more detail but that's the jist of it.
> 
> I know it doesn't mean much at this point but at least I have someone in her family that is not buying all of STBX's bullsh*t. I think it's safe to say that thanksgiving may be a little uneasy at their house. Time to go back to NC.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dad you did nothing wrong and it's about f^cking time her parents had an earful.
And stay friends with your stbxsil.
Good friends are hard to find!
Heck maybe she will set you up.


----------



## tom67

Oh...
Call back SIL and thank her and let her know you appreciate it and tell her what her sister said.:lol:


----------



## just got it 55

dadof2 said:


> Yes I intend to go dark now. I think I stirred up the Hornets nest with the phone call to STBX's sister last week. She called STBX today and straight up asked her if she was dating OM. STBX said that they were seeing each other over the summer but it ended when school started. SIL then called both parents and told them that they are being lied to and have been made to look like fools to everyone for defending STBX. SIL went into a lot more detail but that's the jist of it.
> 
> I know it doesn't mean much at this point but at least I have someone in her family that is not buying all of STBX's bullsh*t. I think it's safe to say that thanksgiving may be a little uneasy at their house. Time to go back to NC.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Vindication it's a powerful thing isn't it Dad

55


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> Yes I intend to go dark now. I think I stirred up the Hornets nest with the phone call to STBX's sister last week. She called STBX today and straight up asked her if she was dating OM. STBX said that they were seeing each other over the summer but it ended when school started. SIL then called both parents and told them that they are being lied to and have been made to look like fools to everyone for defending STBX. SIL went into a lot more detail but that's the jist of it.
> 
> I know it doesn't mean much at this point but at least I have someone in her family that is not buying all of STBX's bullsh*t.


Huh. So she's catching heat finally, huh? Just think what could have happened if you would have actually EXPOSED her cheating at the _beginning_, like we told you to do.


----------



## tom67

just got it 55 said:


> Vindication it's a powerful thing isn't it Dad
> 
> 55


:iagree::iagree:
She is going to be their Aunt hopefully for a long time.
Make sure if your w derails she can have a positive influence in their lives.
Is she a mother herself?


----------



## jim123

dadof2 said:


> Well apparently STBX got work that I talked to her sister. She was not too happy about it. She texted me saying that if I want to talk about our relationship it should be with her and her only.
> 
> I told her that I was talking to her sister as a friend and that she has made these choices and I am the only one who chooses not to ignore it.
> 
> She then said that how her family feels about her "choices" (she put it in quotes, not sure why) is none of my business. She then said "My personal life is no longer your concern. I want to focus on being civil and being good parents."
> 
> I then told her to enjoy her life with OM.
> 
> I know I shouldn't have engaged her but I couldn't resist. I guess she made it clear how she feels, lol.
> 
> ETA: She continued by saying that I don't want a wife, I want someone I can control and manipulate. I asked her to give me an example of how I have done that in the last 2 weeks. She said by checking her phone, making her call OM while I listened, asking to know where she was when she didn't have the kids, and asking her to change jobs and get rid of toxic friends.
> 
> I said that I thought those were steps to rebuild trust but obviously she sees it differently. I said I did all I could do and that she has shown me that I am not what she is looking for. I said if she thinks that I could live with her working with OM every day then our R never had a chance. I said I wish things were different for our children, but I won't bother her anymore.


Interesting that she told all her toxic friends about your life.

Does your state allow for quicker D's due to an A?

Also speak with another attorney regarding the false RO. You should file charges against her. The purpose would be to break the fog. It would also turn her against the other toxic friends.


----------



## honcho

dadof2 said:


> Yes I intend to go dark now. I think I stirred up the Hornets nest with the phone call to STBX's sister last week. She called STBX today and straight up asked her if she was dating OM. STBX said that they were seeing each other over the summer but it ended when school started. SIL then called both parents and told them that they are being lied to and have been made to look like fools to everyone for defending STBX. SIL went into a lot more detail but that's the jist of it.
> 
> I know it doesn't mean much at this point but at least I have someone in her family that is not buying all of STBX's bullsh*t. I think it's safe to say that thanksgiving may be a little uneasy at their house. Time to go back to NC.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And now she will start the spin that they were just friends, he was a shoulder to lean on yada yada yada. One thing led to another and they just couldnt dismiss the feelings they had for each other. 

Mom and dad will buy it hook line and sinker of course or it will be some variation of that story. Its standard fare. None of it matters they know the truth deep down and you know the truth. She will find the hard way that living the lie is much harder than she thinks.


----------



## tom67

jim123 said:


> Interesting that she told all her toxic friends about your life.
> 
> Does your state allow for quicker D's due to an A?
> 
> Also speak with another attorney regarding the false RO. You should file charges against her. The purpose would be to break the fog. It would also turn her against the other toxic friends.


Sadly I think he is screwed there.


----------



## tom67

honcho said:


> And now she will start the spin that they were just friends, he was a shoulder to lean on yada yada yada. One thing led to another and they just couldnt dismiss the feelings they had for each other.
> 
> Mom and dad will buy it hook line and sinker of course or it will be some variation of that story. Its standard fare. None of it matters they know the truth deep down and you know the truth. She will find the hard way that living the lie is much harder than she thinks.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
From what dad has said I don't think SIL is going to put up with her crap.
Honcho we all know the ugly truth always comes out.

Dad as you can tell I'm anti big pharma they treat one symptom and create 5 others but I digress.
The only one in her family that has a brain is your SIL I know she doesn't want to deal with her now but she could go to her place and check her medicine cabinet.
This will be the last time I mention it but just thinking about the young ones.


----------



## Augusto

dadof2 said:


> Yes I intend to go dark now. I think I stirred up the Hornets nest with the phone call to STBX's sister last week. She called STBX today and straight up asked her if she was dating OM. STBX said that they were seeing each other over the summer but it ended when school started. SIL then called both parents and told them that they are being lied to and have been made to look like fools to everyone for defending STBX. SIL went into a lot more detail but that's the jist of it.
> 
> I know it doesn't mean much at this point but at least I have someone in her family that is not buying all of STBX's bullsh*t. I think it's safe to say that thanksgiving may be a little uneasy at their house. Time to go back to NC.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's too attached to the OM. I tried to tell you she still is seeing him. Breaking off from you is a way she can have him back. Now find a hot hot hot woman and take her on an exotic trip and make it known to the STBXW. FYI....watch out for another RO. Beat her to the punch and put one on her.


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## tom67

Hey to lighten up the mood watch watch my car burning

Car burning in goodwill today - YouTube

No one was hurt and no additional property damage.

I like how they laugh.


----------



## Rugs

Can someone summarize this thread? I read 16 pages of useless PI information and an email draft to the principle. 

Anyone?


----------



## tom67

Dad here is the correct mindset

Sudden Impact - "Go Ahead Make My Day." - YouTube


----------



## warlock07

dadof2 said:


> ETA: She continued by saying that I don't want a wife, I want someone I can control and manipulate. I asked her to give me an example of how I have done that in the last 2 weeks. She said by checking her phone, making her call OM while I listened, asking to know where she was when she didn't have the kids, and asking her to change jobs and get rid of toxic friends.
> 
> I said that I thought those were steps to rebuild trust but obviously she sees it differently. I said I did all I could do and that she has shown me that I am not what she is looking for. I said if she thinks that I could live with her working with OM every day then our R never had a chance. I said I wish things were different for our children, but I won't bother her anymore.



This was exactly why I am getting pissed off in your thread. Not at you but this is turning out exactly like I said it would and you.(Not a told you so) For me, all of it would have been avoidable. All the progress that you've made has been kinda wasted.

She should have been the one that offered to show you the phone. She should have been the one that offered to make the NC cal in front of youl. She should have been the one reading books and offering strategies to fix the marriage. She should have been the one that initiated any intimacy.

It was like seeing a crash in slow motion. While saying that you were not, you jumped into R completely. 

And people speculating that she will reach out again, I don't think she will any time soon. Don't wait on it and please restart your dating life. That should help your obsession with your ex and you also need to get laid.


----------



## LongWalk

dadof2 said:


> Yes I intend to go dark now. I think I stirred up the Hornets nest with the phone call to STBX's sister last week. She called STBX today and straight up asked her if she was dating OM. *STBX said that they were seeing each other over the summer but it ended when school started.* SIL then called both parents and told them that they are being lied to and have been made to look like fools to everyone for defending STBX. SIL went into a lot more detail but that's the jist of it.
> 
> I know it doesn't mean much at this point but at least I have someone in her family that is not buying all of STBX's bullsh*t. I think it's safe to say that thanksgiving may be a little uneasy at their house. Time to go back to NC.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dadof2,

I am sorry that your R was false. Like HappyMan, I hoped for your children's sake that you could restore your family. When you did not resume intimacy with your WW, it was unclear if that was because you were demanding more remorse from her or because she was demanding more whatever from you. Now we see that she was not up for a resumption physical affection with you. There was no hysterical bonding and it wasn't there to be gotten. 

Your SIL has now shown that the affair was never broken off. The claim that it ended when school started is in all probability a fiction that the two of them cooked up to prevent their colleagues from gossiping. They do not hold hands walking together from the parking lot. They no longer make out in his office.

Do you want OM to be step father to your children? Is he a good person and good father? He is an important development in their lives. The CP settlement from D will give your WW a big chunk of cash that she may well invest on founding a new family with him. If he is a stable person, this may not be the worst outcome.

If he is not such a good guy, and the lack of criminal record tells you little, then you still may wish to expose the affair on Cheaterville to destroy it.

This is why I suggest that you contact his ex wife and invite her to have a cup of coffee at Starbucks. She has kids just like you. In fact they are younger than yours if I remember correctly. She has an interest in knowing about your WW since she is playing step mom as fast as she can.

This goal of this meeting is not to conspire and drum up hatred for the cheaters but to understand what the future holds for your children.

If you do decide to meet her, listen and speak carefully.


----------



## LongWalk

Rugs said:


> Can someone summarize this thread? I read 16 pages of useless PI information and an email draft to the principle.
> 
> Anyone?


Young mother decides to return to the workforce and finds a job as a teacher. She wants to look good again and joins after school workout group led by colleague, a PE teacher who is also assistant principal.

They begin an affair. Who chased whom is unknown to OP. However, he caught on because of changes in her behavior. The gut told him so. She confessed to kissing or something. He discovered that she was lying about a night out with colleagues. She was drunk and OM was there at the bar. After this confrontation in public WW separated and filed and RO against OP.

WW got her own apartment but slept over at OM's as a paid service – overnight babysitting the OMs children. He lives ina trailer. OP was largely paralyzed but managed to complain to the school board. The town is relatively small. The exposure caused WW to claim that the affair was over because she thought the OM was too intent on LTR and she was not keen on it.

Eventually WW began to soften, inviting OP to believe R was possible. When he attempted R she kissed him a couple of times and discovered that there was no longer sufficient sexual attraction to save their marriage. Since then they gone back to estranged/180/no contact.

WW is a liar. OP is beginning to realize this at a deeper level.


----------



## Rugs

Thank you for the summary


----------



## Chaparral

dadof2 said:


> Yes I intend to go dark now. I think I stirred up the Hornets nest with the phone call to STBX's sister last week. She called STBX today and straight up asked her if she was dating OM. STBX said that they were seeing each other over the summer but it ended when school started. SIL then called both parents and told them that they are being lied to and have been made to look like fools to everyone for defending STBX. SIL went into a lot more detail but that's the jist of it.
> 
> I know it doesn't mean much at this point but at least I have someone in her family that is not buying all of STBX's bullsh*t. I think it's safe to say that thanksgiving may be a little uneasy at their house. Time to go back to NC.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You were told to expose this early on. You didn't. You were told to put him on cheaterville and wreck his ability to hide and keep the affair going. We could have all written how this was going to go.

On the other hand, your cheating wife is gone so there is a bright side. She has left a vacuum that you can fill with a decent person.


----------



## Squeakr

I wish posters would leave the cheaterville thing out of it. In the beginning it was something good to destroy the A and expose to all, but now it is just a revenge tool that should only be brought up once the negotiations and D is final. I see where DO2 is coming from as his wife is already being coached on what to do, had a RO filed against him, and the last thing he needs to do is ANYTHING that would characterize him and hurt his custody negotiations. Yes he aid they are agreed upon, but without a D in effect, it be changed at any time, as it is not an "official" decree.


----------



## dadof2

Chaparral said:


> You were told to expose this early on. You didn't. You were told to put him on cheaterville and wreck his ability to hide and keep the affair going. We could have all written how this was going to go.
> 
> On the other hand, your cheating wife is gone so there is a bright side. She has left a vacuum that you can fill with a decent person.


I feel like I exposed to the best extent I could once I found out. The RO against me really handcuffed me. We had not reached a custody settlement, and with the RO in place anything that I did that could be construed as harassment could impact the time I have with my children. I didn't want to risk that. I exposed immediately to her family and they chose to believe her lies instead. We let word leak out to the school board, again very cautiously due to the RO. While the people we talked to were concerned, they seemed to take very little action.

I think me telling STBX's sister about the continued relationship really hit a nerve. I talked to SIL again last night and she said the whole family was on the phone with each other yesterday. STBX sent me the text to not discuss our relationship with her family. It is obvious that she doesn't want me wrecking the picture she has painted to her parents. I am not going to keep pushing it, because then it makes me look desperate. I think I planted the seed the best I can in order to make her family take a long look at this guy when she starts bringing him around as her new boyfriend.


----------



## just got it 55

dadof2 said:


> I feel like I exposed to the best extent I could once I found out. The RO against me really handcuffed me. We had not reached a custody settlement, and with the RO in place anything that I did that could be construed as harassment could impact the time I have with my children. I didn't want to risk that. I exposed immediately to her family and they chose to believe her lies instead. We let word leak out to the school board, again very cautiously due to the RO. While the people we talked to were concerned, they seemed to take very little action.
> 
> I think me telling STBX's sister about the continued relationship really hit a nerve. I talked to SIL again last night and she said the whole family was on the phone with each other yesterday. STBX sent me the text to not discuss our relationship with her family. It is obvious that she doesn't want me wrecking the picture she has painted to her parents. I am not going to keep pushing it, because then it makes me look desperate. I think I planted the seed the best I can in order to make her family take a long look at this guy when she starts bringing him around as her new boyfriend.


dad only your SIL will and only to an extent (Will she be willing to risk her relationship with her sister long term ?) doubtful 

The rest are cowards

Just keep reminding yourself of that

Your POS STBXW just wants you to play nice

You know "if you are going to be mean I am just going to hang up" when you tell her your true thoughts

WTF ??

She also is a coward

Don't count on support from anyone in her side of the fence.

They would just watch your life disintegrate if you let it

Move forward young man

55


----------



## tryingpatience

dadof2 said:


> I feel like I exposed to the best extent I could once I found out. The RO against me really handcuffed me. We had not reached a custody settlement, and with the RO in place anything that I did that could be construed as harassment could impact the time I have with my children. I didn't want to risk that. I exposed immediately to her family and they chose to believe her lies instead. We let word leak out to the school board, again very cautiously due to the RO. While the people we talked to were concerned, they seemed to take very little action.
> 
> I think me telling STBX's sister about the continued relationship really hit a nerve. I talked to SIL again last night and she said the whole family was on the phone with each other yesterday. STBX sent me the text to not discuss our relationship with her family. It is obvious that she doesn't want me wrecking the picture she has painted to her parents. I am not going to keep pushing it, because then it makes me look desperate. I think I planted the seed the best I can in order to make her family take a long look at this guy when she starts bringing him around as her new boyfriend.


I understand your situation all to well. When I exposed, I first exposed to her family and then when they just rugsweeped I didn't push it anymore. I also exposed to her close co-workers. I received a reply from one of her co-workers telling me that my email was harrassment. The people close to her were already on her side. Her co-workers probably supported her affair, which is so sad. Doing more would have just made me look desperate. Also, I already knew I didn't want anything to do with my cheating ex.


----------



## tryingpatience

just got it 55 said:


> Move forward young man
> 
> 55


Yes absolutely!!!


----------



## turnera

dad, you can tell us (and yourself) that all you want. But the truth is, there were a LOT of things you (and your family and friends) could have done to smash this affair, and you chose not to. We told you what would happen and you didn't believe us. You chose to believe you could nice her back. You fell for her lies. And now you know what we knew going in. Nice doesn't work when a woman cheats. She has now SHOWN you that exposure works and, had you listened to us and FOUND ways to make this really difficult on them, it would be over now and she'd be, if not back with you, at least NOT with the POSOM. 

I'm not telling you this to make you feel bad. Your marriage is gone and OM will probably be your kids' new stepdad as soon as the ink is dry. I'm saying this for all the OTHER people reading this who are afraid to be 'mean' to their cheating wife and think it's safer/easier to just wait her out. _It doesn't work._ In 15 years, I've only seen one case where waiting worked, and in that case, she ended up having life-altering illnesses and really needed her husband back. In 15 years, I've seen dozens of ex-cheaters come back and say the ONLY reason they stopped cheating was because their husband got pissed off and IMMEDIATELY said him or me and if she didn't agree, he got aggressive. In fact, those women, almost every one, said they really WANTED their husband to be aggressive and were happy he was.

I'm sorry your marriage didn't work out. Hopefully you can learn _something_ from all this and won't fall for it with your next wife.


----------



## dadof2

turnera said:


> dad, you can tell us (and yourself) that all you want. But the truth is, there were a LOT of things you (and your family and friends) could have done to smash this affair, and you chose not to. We told you what would happen and you didn't believe us. You chose to believe you could nice her back. You fell for her lies. And now you know what we knew going in. Nice doesn't work when a woman cheats. She has now SHOWN you that exposure works and, had you listened to us and FOUND ways to make this really difficult on them, it would be over now and she'd be, if not back with you, at least NOT with the POSOM.
> 
> I'm not telling you this to make you feel bad. Your marriage is gone and OM will probably be your kids' new stepdad as soon as the ink is dry. I'm saying this for all the OTHER people reading this who are afraid to be 'mean' to their cheating wife and think it's safer/easier to just wait her out. _It doesn't work._ In 15 years, I've only seen one case where waiting worked, and in that case, she ended up having life-altering illnesses and really needed her husband back. In 15 years, I've seen dozens of ex-cheaters come back and say the ONLY reason they stopped cheating was because their husband got pissed off and IMMEDIATELY said him or me and if she didn't agree, he got aggressive. In fact, those women, almost every one, said they really WANTED their husband to be aggressive and were happy he was.
> 
> I'm sorry your marriage didn't work out. Hopefully you can learn _something_ from all this and won't fall for it with your next wife.


I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you. I was NC with her for nearly 3 months, I don't think that is nicing her out of anything. I'm sorry I didn't get the torches and pitchforks out but I think I made some tactical decisions. In the end, she was gonna do what she was gonna do regardless of what I did. I know the situation better than you, and things like cheaterville, etc will just play into her spin of me being crazy.

She has turned anyone away who isn't going along with her lies, and I was never going to convince her family and friends to believe me. Her reasons for not continuing with R were the same old reasons she gave me when she left the first time. Nothing I could have done other than be a complete doormat and rugsweeper would have satisfied her.


----------



## Hicks

Yeah, you don't always have control over everything. Breaking an affair even with exposure has a low success rate. Don't beat yourself up. The only failure on your part was engaging in the reconciliation process. You looked at it as your decision to make when really you should have just been gauging her "trueness" by examining her reaction to terms and conditions you should have imposed. By either being hesitant to make demands on her or hesitant to "piss her off", that's where you cost yourself some time and emotional hurt. But know that at the end of the day she is a cheater and basically a defective person and you can't beat yourself up for not "curing" her of her basic personality flaws.

I will give you advice counter to what you are going to receive from alot of other people. Now focus on giving your children the best possible life. Your children will be harmed by a divorce. But they will be far more harmed if they are put in the middle of an acrimonious relationship between Mom and Dad. This will harm them badly if it comes to pass. And unfortunately that means for you digging deep for extreme strength and swallowing alot of crap. But if you really want what's best for the kids, you must consider this.


----------



## Squeakr

turnera said:


> dad, you can tell us (and yourself) that all you want. But the truth is, there were a LOT of things you (and your family and friends) could have done to smash this affair, and you chose not to. We told you what would happen and you didn't believe us. You chose to believe you could nice her back. You fell for her lies. And now you know what we knew going in. Nice doesn't work when a woman cheats. She has now SHOWN you that exposure works and, had you listened to us and FOUND ways to make this really difficult on them, it would be over now and she'd be, if not back with you, at least NOT with the POSOM.
> 
> I'm not telling you this to make you feel bad. Your marriage is gone and OM will probably be your kids' new stepdad as soon as the ink is dry. I'm saying this for all the OTHER people reading this who are afraid to be 'mean' to their cheating wife and think it's safer/easier to just wait her out. _It doesn't work._ In 15 years, I've only seen one case where waiting worked, and in that case, she ended up having life-altering illnesses and really needed her husband back. In 15 years, I've seen dozens of ex-cheaters come back and say the ONLY reason they stopped cheating was because their husband got pissed off and IMMEDIATELY said him or me and if she didn't agree, he got aggressive. In fact, those women, almost every one, said they really WANTED their husband to be aggressive and were happy he was.
> 
> I'm sorry your marriage didn't work out. Hopefully you can learn _something_ from all this and won't fall for it with your next wife.


I see your point and agree that "nicing" the way around things will definitely not break up the A, but there is no guarantee that being "aggressive" toward the A would yield anything positive either. Some people are broken beyond fixing and he may now just be finding out the truth about her past and this may be her entire lifestyle (she only made a temporary change when she met him, have seen this first hand myself). 

It also wouldn't matter how much it is blown up if family and friends support her bad habit and decisions and see nothing wrong with the behaviors. When only one person (and in this case she was convincing herself that same person was the cause and root of all evil) is the only one to tell her she is behaving badly, irresponsibly, and abhorrent, she is going to believe all the supporters as it meets her desires and needs. No amount of exposure would change the minds of the "toxic" supporters so she would just gradually cut out those against her and surround herself with yes men. The exposure would have stopped nothing, as toxic friends are called that for a reason.


----------



## Squeakr

Hicks said:


> I will give you advice counter to what you are going to receive from alot of other people. Now focus on giving your children the best possible life. Your children will be harmed by a divorce. But they will be far more harmed if they are put in the middle of an acrimonious relationship between Mom and Dad. This will harm them badly if it comes to pass. And unfortunately that means for you digging deep for extreme strength and swallowing alot of crap. But if you really want what's best for the kids, you must consider this.


I don't think he needs to swallow any crap. He just needs to not deal with her. They can co-parent without really interacting. They can interact through text and phone, which would enable him to not be subjected to her insults and crap. They can meet in public places for hand offs to minimize the exposure to her toxic life, and can avoid her at public events (no one says when they attend school events that he has to sit with her). He doesn't have to accept her crap, just remain neutral and distant for her direct attacks and interactions.


----------



## Chaparral

It wasn't definitively exposed. She just lied out of it and claimed to not being in an affair. No exposure was made on the other man. Putting him on cheaterville would have cost him his job. He would have had to try and get another job in another locality.

There is no rational explanation as to how this could have been construed as harassing his wife.

All other man got was a new family that he stole.


----------



## LongWalk

Does it make a difference to you if OM becomes step father to your kids?

As to the spin that you are crazy and desperate, did you ever call her up in the middle of the night and cry?

If OM is a stable person, things may work out. If he is not, what then? Do you want your kids to live in the trailer with OM? Do you want your wife to take her share of the D settlement and buy a house with him. I don't write "POSOM" here, just OM. Who is he? Why did your wife come up the_ he wanted to get serious so I broke it off_ explanation? Is there some kernel of truth in that? If so, why?

Do you think talking with his ex wife will set you back? Make your WW angry at you?

Remember Dof2, HappyMan, Turnera and others here have a long track record of calling these situations probably as well a professional MC. Don't forget that exposure was the one action that actually took wind out of the sails of he SS Untrue.

The claim that the affair ended when school started, do you believe it?

In this day and age a man has not right to object to his wife extra marital sex partners. His only recourse is to divorce. Your WW filed for divorce first to take away your only legal power. She dangled R in front you but her fingers were crossed. Was so that she could tell everyone that she tried to R?

Can'tThinkStraight's exWW is working hard to try and get his kids to call her fiance dad. He is p!ssed. His exWW is worse than yours, but you haven't seen the end of her misbehavior.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> It wasn't definitively exposed. She just lied out of it and claimed to not being in an affair. No exposure was made on the other man. Putting him on cheaterville would have cost him his job. He would have had to try and get another job in another locality.
> 
> There is no rational explanation as to how this could have been construed as harassing his wife.
> 
> All other man got was a new family that he stole.


The RO had nothing to do with the om.
Anyway like what was said that's water over the bridge time to move on and not care what her family thinks at this point time to find a younger hotter replacement.


----------



## azteca1986

turnera said:


> I'm not telling you this to make you feel bad. Your marriage is gone and OM will probably be your kids' new stepdad as soon as the ink is dry. I'm saying this for all the OTHER people reading this who are afraid to be 'mean' to their cheating wife and think it's safer/easier to just wait her out. _It doesn't work._ In 15 years...


In 15 years how many times have you seen a WW file with an RO already in place?


----------



## turnera

Squeakr said:


> I see your point and agree that "nicing" the way around things will definitely not break up the A, but there is no guarantee that being "aggressive" toward the A would yield anything positive either.


No one ever gave him a guarantee. We're not dumb. But there are a lot of other benefits of NOT trying to nice the wife home. Self esteem, sense of progress, integrity, showing family/friends that you respect yourself, spending time doing things for one's self instead of to kiss her ass, meeting up with friends, making new friends, teaching the kids how to act ethically and how to choose right and not be codependent...most of the benefits are for yourself so that, no matter how it ends up, you can look at yourself and know you did the right thing.



> It also wouldn't matter how much it is blown up if family and friends support her bad habit and decisions and see nothing wrong with the behaviors.


Actually, a fuller exposure could have had a lot of other benefits, such as making it harder for the OM to fit into dad's spot in her family or with friends of the former couple, making it harder for the OM to sweettalk the kids into accepting him and replacing dad, teaching the kids how to not take crap, and teaching other people observing that it would be a mistake to follow their lead. You assume that everyone would accept them with open arms. Well, we now know that isn't true. Not only did the SIL get pissed off, but she got the whole family talking about it; if this had happened five months ago, dad's kids probably wouldn't have spent the summer playing house with OM and his kids.


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> Does it make a difference to you if OM becomes step father to your kids? *Sure it makes a difference, right now the thought of anyone being any type of "father" to my kids other than me makes me upset.*
> 
> As to the spin that you are crazy and desperate, did you ever call her up in the middle of the night and cry? *Not at all. I spent the first 2 weeks or so after separation being a nice guy, then found TAM and started 180*
> 
> If OM is a stable person, things may work out. If he is not, what then? Do you want your kids to live in the trailer with OM? Do you want your wife to take her share of the D settlement and buy a house with him. *I would imagine with her settlement if they are serious then yes, they will look to buy something together. He has hit the jackpot in his mind. A young, hot woman with money*
> 
> I don't write "POSOM" here, just OM. Who is he? Why did your wife come up the_ he wanted to get serious so I broke it off_ explanation? Is there some kernel of truth in that? If so, why? *I don't know if there is any truth to that. I think she made it up, its very hard to believe anything she has said in the last 6 months. I think it was her way of making him look bad to me- her MO all along.*
> 
> Do you think talking with his ex wife will set you back? Make your WW angry at you? *Not sure how it would effect things right now. If STBX and OM become "official" then I would probably reach out to OMXW to get some more info. Right now I believe she is just in affair fantasy land. Only seeing him when she doesn't have the kids.*
> 
> Remember Dof2, HappyMan, Turnera and others here have a long track record of calling these situations probably as well a professional MC. Don't forget that exposure was the one action that actually took wind out of the sails. *I know, they have been providing some unbelievable advice and perspective, along with many others including yourself. I can't thank all of you enough for actually taking the time to read my story and offer advice. I think the biggest action that got her attention was when I told her I wasn't chasing her anymore and moved her belongings out of my house. She admitted that in MC that she feared she may lose me.*
> 
> The claim that the affair ended when school started, do you believe it? *I think it did end for a period of time. I think she felt guilty or trapped that she could never go public with their relationship due to their work circumstances. Knowing her she may not be looking for anything long term with him, she can be perfectly happy seeing him underground and never introducing him to her family for quite some time. She has always been sort of a loner*


----------



## turnera

azteca1986 said:


> In 15 years how many times have you seen a WW file with an RO already in place?


I've only seen an RO used 4 times so far. There was a man on another forum whose wife tried this and he just hired a lawyer and slammed her so hard she dropped it. dad's wife never even got her hand slapped for doing it.


----------



## dadof2

turnera said:


> Actually, a fuller exposure could have had a lot of other benefits, such as making it harder for the OM to fit into dad's spot in her family or with friends of the former couple, making it harder for the OM to sweettalk the kids into accepting him and replacing dad, teaching the kids how to not take crap, and teaching other people observing that it would be a mistake to follow their lead. You assume that everyone would accept them with open arms. Well, we now know that isn't true. *Not only did the SIL get pissed off, but she got the whole family talking about it; if this had happened five months ago, dad's kids probably wouldn't have spent the summer playing house with OM and his kids.*


I exposed to her family including pictures of her and my kids with OM when she had told me she was still at the beach. This was one month after separation. They didn't believe me and she successfully spun it to them that I was stalking her. SIL has felt this way all along and we have talked about it several times. She knows she can't change her sister and can't change how her parents have always enabled her. She is upset, but she can't change her sister or how her parents feel about it.


----------



## dadof2

I don't want to turn this thread into a "What Dof2 should have done" thread. How about what STBX should have done? I appreciate your advice Turnera, and I have learned a lot through this whole experience. Even if I would have followed the exposure handbook completely, I would probably still be right here and even worse, I would have "won" back a lying cheating wife.


----------



## azteca1986

turnera said:


> I've only seen an RO used 4 times so far. There was a man on another forum whose wife tried this and he just hired a lawyer and slammed her so hard she dropped it. *dad's wife never even got her hand slapped for doing it*.


That would have been a violation of the RO 

He's moving on again. It's all very well saying things could have been different. Maybe. I've been entirely consistent here. I did ask when there seemed a move toward R why dadof2 would even contemplate attempting R with a woman who was capable of what she did (her behaviour being particularly egregious)

Why talk about the past? Keep her in the rear-view mirror.


----------



## Squeakr

turnera said:


> No one ever gave him a guarantee. We're not dumb. But there are a lot of other benefits of NOT trying to nice the wife home. Self esteem, sense of progress, integrity, showing family/friends that you respect yourself, spending time doing things for one's self instead of to kiss her ass, meeting up with friends, making new friends, teaching the kids how to act ethically and how to choose right and not be codependent...most of the benefits are for yourself so that, no matter how it ends up, you can look at yourself and know you did the right thing.
> 
> Actually, a fuller exposure could have had a lot of other benefits, such as making it harder for the OM to fit into dad's spot in her family or with friends of the former couple, making it harder for the OM to sweettalk the kids into accepting him and replacing dad, teaching the kids how to not take crap, and teaching other people observing that it would be a mistake to follow their lead. You assume that everyone would accept them with open arms. Well, we now know that isn't true. Not only did the SIL get pissed off, but she got the whole family talking about it; if this had happened five months ago, dad's kids probably wouldn't have spent the summer playing house with OM and his kids.



I never said anyone gave a guarantee, but it sure comes across as that with your statements. You make it out like it would be some happy ending if he had chosen that route. As nasty, vindictive, and resentful as she has been I could almost insure that it would have never worked out no matter his actions. She is broken and that is on her (the pills and alcohol should be a big indicator).

Never did I ever assume or hint that they would welcome him with open arms. Nice try though to characterize that I was stating something otherwise. I was just stating that when they accept and value such despicable behavior that no matter what he would have done the outcome wouldn't have affected things when they don't see the error in her ways. When the group all shares the same viewpoints and moral standpoints then it doesn't matter what is said, they will back their fellow group members (think about how religion, fraternal organizations, professional groups, etc) all seem to back each other and share a mutual standpoint no matter how it may be viewed by others and will back it and support it o matter the evidence to the contrary presented. That is the situation he was facing.


----------



## turnera

Like I said, I'm posting this for the hundreds of other people who read this thread and never post. So THEY can learn.


----------



## azteca1986

dadof2 said:


> Even if I would have followed the exposure handbook completely, I would probably still be right here and even worse, I would have "won" back a lying cheating wife.


Bravo

EDIT:


turnera said:


> Like I said, I'm posting this for the hundreds of other people who read this thread and never post. So THEY can learn.


So am I.


----------



## turnera

Squeakr said:


> I never said anyone gave a guarantee, but it sure comes across as that with your statements. You make it out like it would be some happy ending if he had chosen that route. As nasty, vindictive, and resentful as she has been I could almost insure that it would have never worked out no matter his actions. She is broken and that is on her (the pills and alcohol should be a big indicator).
> 
> Never did I ever assume or hint that they would welcome him with open arms. Nice try though to characterize that I was stating something otherwise. I was just stating that when they accept and value such despicable behavior that no matter what he would have done the outcome wouldn't have affected things when they don't see the error in her ways. When the group all shares the same viewpoints and moral standpoints then it doesn't matter what is said, they will back their fellow group members (think about how religion, fraternal organizations, professional groups, etc) all seem to back each other and share a mutual standpoint no matter how it may be viewed by others and will back it and support it o matter the evidence to the contrary presented. That is the situation he was facing.


*shrug*

And I've seen dozens of other posters who thought the same as you and were pleasantly surprised to find out that strength actually works. dad waffled back and forth so many times there was no way to SHOW strength; he knows that. He wanted her back so badly he accepted all kinds of crumbs. That's his choice. Others could and may act differently and get the results that strength psychologically begets. It's not for everyone. Most BHs are incapable of pulling the strength card. But there are people out there reading who will decide to try it.


----------



## Squeakr

turnera said:


> I've only seen an RO used 4 times so far. There was a man on another forum whose wife tried this and he just hired a lawyer and slammed her so hard she dropped it. dad's wife never even got her hand slapped for doing it.


Not all states allow the RO to be dropped. In my state once it is initiated, it has to be investigated and go to court, no matter how much legalize is thrown at it. The reason being that too many times the RO was repealed and the DV actually reoccurred worse as retaliation for the RO being filed. Therefor the RO's are initiated by the claimant, but they are actually filed by the state, thus it removes the offended from the duty of responsibility and places it on the state to prove and enforce if necessary and no matter how many times the claimant tries to have it removed they haven't the power to do so.


----------



## dadof2

Squeakr said:


> Not all states allow the RO to be dropped. In my state once it is initiated, it has to be investigated and go to court, no matter how much legalize is thrown at it. The reason being that too many times the RO was repealed and the DV actually reoccurred worse as retaliation for the RO being filed. Therefor the RO's are initiated by the claimant, but they are actually filed by the state, thus it removes the offended from the duty of responsibility and places it on the state to prove and enforce if necessary and no matter how many times the claimant tries to have it removed they haven't the power to do so.


My lawyer requested in our initial response to her petition that the RO be removed and the court kept it in place.


----------



## Squeakr

turnera said:


> *shrug*
> 
> And I've seen dozens of other posters who thought the same as you and were pleasantly surprised to find out that strength actually works. dad waffled back and forth so many times there was no way to SHOW strength; he knows that. He wanted her back so badly he accepted all kinds of crumbs. That's his choice. Others could and may act differently and get the results that strength psychologically begets. It's not for everyone. Most BHs are incapable of pulling the strength card. But there are people out there reading who will decide to try it.


*Shrug, exactly*

You are predicating on the premises that the WW is also waffling on whether she wants the BH back or not and can't truly commit or decide. That is not always the case, and in this one, she made it abundantly clear she had no feelings for him other than disdain and hatred (and only longed for the comfortable life with the kids she had and would be losing). The RO, villianization, lying, and heinous actions (and unwillingness to change anything or admit wrong) pretty much proved this. 

Your suggestions are good and may be perfect in a less evasive situation, but there was nothing he could have done that would have won her back, she was gone from word go. That is all I am saying is that in his situation he really had no control and no matter what he did it would have been for naught. I would be willing to bet, had he done everything suggested, we would still be here saying, sorry DO2 you tried and she was just broken and you need to move on.


----------



## tom67

Dad we may have different opinions but I think we can all agree that we wish you the best.
In time start dating I have no doubt you will be fine.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Dadof2... its very simple

You didn't cause her choice, you can't control her choice and you can't cure her choice in the past, now or in the future. 

You can ONLY affect your own life and your children's lives by the environment you create while they are in your home. Outside of that you have control of nothing unless there is evidence of abuse in someone else's home regarding your kids, then I know you would hit the law so fast, your knew nickname would have to become Hurricane Dad. So... when you create this consistent loving, stable environment, you are creating FOR your kids a safe haven and they may very well solicit to come live with you in the future. Heal well, create well, live well. It is your best path. 


Don't worry about coulda, shoulda, woulda at this point. Release it when you are ready and practice self acceptance. This adjustment will be messy since in essence just like new construction on a house is messy for a while, so is new construction on a lifestyle. Practice grace with yourself and your kids until the dust settles. All of this will become the fabric of who you are in the future and it will become "good." Trust in that process. And surround yourself with GREAT people. Wish you the BEST.

BL


----------



## naiveonedave

Squeakr said:


> Not all states allow the RO to be dropped. In my state once it is initiated, it has to be investigated and go to court, no matter how much legalize is thrown at it. The reason being that too many times the RO was repealed and the DV actually reoccurred worse as retaliation for the RO being filed. Therefor the RO's are initiated by the claimant, but they are actually filed by the state, thus it removes the offended from the duty of responsibility and places it on the state to prove and enforce if necessary and no matter how many times the claimant tries to have it removed they haven't the power to do so.


ah, the old guility until proven innocent tact....


----------



## LongWalk

> Question: If OM is a stable person, things may work out. If he is not, what then? Do you want your kids to live in the trailer with OM? Do you want your wife to take her share of the D settlement and buy a house with him?
> 
> Answer: I would imagine with her settlement if they are serious then yes, they will look to buy something together. He has hit the jackpot in his mind. A young, hot woman with money


This why you need to call up OM's ex wife and invite her to a have a latte on you. You do not have to be crude. Just tell her that you WW and her ex are having an affair. Does she know about it?

You want to see your children in a stable family environment. Ask her if she understands you.

She may not know about he RO and the school board, etc. If she does learn a bit, she may tell you about the reasons they divorced. Could be anything. Infidelity, financial problems. What is OM has a pile of debt that your WW doesn't even know about? On TAM we have seen OM marry their AP to get their money. Afterwards, they dump them. Not saying that this will happen but how can it hurt your to better understand the situation.

Of course his ex may be a bitter, horrible person. She may be wonderful. You do not have to figure everything out but for Pete's sake don't just let your kids drift into the trailer park dude's orbit without investigating. You owe it to your kids.

If your WW gets word of it and calls you a control freak, so frigging what?

Some BS sleep with OM/W's spouse/ex to get revenge. I am sure you won't make that mistake.

Does OM's ex live in poverty? Is OM shelling out everything in child support and alimony to her?

Go do some MMA or kick boxing in the gym.


----------



## IIJokerII

Blossom Leigh said:


> Dadof2... its very simple
> 
> You didn't cause her choice, you can't control her choice and you can't cure her choice in the past, now or in the future.
> 
> You can ONLY affect your own life and your children's lives by the environment you create while they are in your home. Outside of that you have control of nothing unless there is evidence of abuse in someone else's home regarding your kids, then I know you would hit the law so fast, your knew nickname would have to become Hurricane Dad. So... when you create this consistent loving, stable environment, you are creating FOR your kids a safe haven and they may very well solicit to come live with you in the future. Heal well, create well, live well. It is your best path.
> 
> 
> Don't worry about coulda, shoulda, woulda at this point. Release it when you are ready and practice self acceptance. This adjustment will be messy since in essence just like new construction on a house is messy for a while, so is new construction on a lifestyle. Practice grace with yourself and your kids until the dust settles. All of this will become the fabric of who you are in the future and it will become "good." Trust in that process. And surround yourself with GREAT people. Wish you the BEST.
> 
> BL


I am sure we could all preach this but lets be real here, this experience will scar him in future relationships, especially the duration of a happy marriage he endured with his Wife vs the retro-review she cast unto him with a ferocity he would have never expected. He will, as this forums main title suggests, cope with this experience but he like so many other will never heal completely. Initial trust and openness will be difficult for whatever new person he does eventually meet. But the memories will never be totally suppressed by this potential new individual. It is unfortunate. 

Just ask Bandit about his views of relationships and marriage, I know it's one opinion but it is drawn from a common spectrum of the damage infidelity produces.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

IIJokerII said:


> I am sure we could all preach this but lets be real here, this experience will scar him in future relationships, especially the duration of a happy marriage he endured with his Wife vs the retro-review she cast unto him with a ferocity he would have never expected. He will, as this forums main title suggests, cope with this experience but he like so many other will never heal completely. Initial trust and openness will be difficult for whatever new person he does eventually meet. But the memories will never be totally suppressed by this potential new individual. It is unfortunate.
> 
> Just ask Bandit about his views of relationships and marriage, I know it's one opinion but it is drawn from a common spectrum of the damage infidelity produces.


Darlin' you are preachin to the choir.

Thus my post is VERY real.


----------



## Squeakr

naiveonedave said:


> ah, the old guility until proven innocent tact....


Yep somewhat, but like the old saying goes "one rotten apple spoils the barrel". It is the heinous actions of a few that have caused everyone to error on the side of good judgement, and they have sufficient data and real world examples to back their concerns (no judge or prosecutor wants to be the one to dismiss an RO only to have to prosecute later for a retaliatory battery or even worse murder, which has happened in my state). Although it is not truly guilty, as you are just charged, but nothing goes on your record until it is proven, it is just like being cited for a violation or charged with another crime that you get to have your day in court (although I agree it is not overly fair, but lots of countries it is that way for everything in the court system, burden of proof is on the charged).


----------



## IIJokerII

Blossom Leigh said:


> Darlin' you are preachin to the choir.
> 
> Thus my post is VERY real.


Awesome!!!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

IIJokerII said:


> Awesome!!!


Yea, I in no way mean to make it sound as if it won't be hard as hell. He'll find that out soon enough. My intent is to express, it can be done and will produce a version of him he will be quite satisfied to own.


----------



## happyman64

Dof2

I agree there is no use in rehashing the past "shoulda, coulda, woulda".

So what is your short-term plan going forward?

What is your long-term plan going forward?

HM


----------



## IIJokerII

Blossom Leigh said:


> Yea, I in no way mean to make it sound as if it won't be hard as hell. He'll find that out soon enough. My intent is to express, it can be done and will produce a version of him he will be quite satisfied to own.


One way or the other, indeed.


----------



## Chaparral

What the anti exposure posts are failing to mention is that the om gets off scott free. Even worse he is getting away with Dad's marbles too.

In another thread, the principal was run out of town. The BS also kept tabs on him and let other school boards know of his crap. He lost several jobs as a result of breaking up one family.

This isn't just about trying to win back a cheating spouse. Its also about keeping this lowlife away from his kids and possibly dealing with him for years, including financing his lifestyle. Stopping that is worth some risk.

Its not like this is the first thread here. If you've read enough there really isn't much to debate about how this now turns out.


----------



## dadof2

Chaparral said:


> What the anti exposure posts are failing to mention is that the om gets off scott free. Even worse he is getting away with Dad's marbles too.
> 
> In another thread, the principal was run out of town. The BS also kept tabs on him and let other school boards know of his crap. He lost several jobs as a result of breaking up one family.
> 
> This isn't just about trying to win back a cheating spouse. Its also about keeping this lowlife away from his kids and possibly dealing with him for years, including financing his lifestyle. Stopping that is worth some risk.
> 
> Its not like this is the first thread here. If you've read enough there really isn't much to debate about how this now turns out.


TBH at this point, she has been keeping OM nearby all along, so I am willing to let him have her. They won't last 6 months now that they don't have to sneak around. I'm sure he sees the dollar signs that she will get in our CP settlement, but he will soon realize how hard it is to make her happy. My therapist said yesterday that this is how she operates. Tells herself she's in love, goes all in that he is the best guy in the world (KISA) then gets tired of him and dumps him while telling her family that he was never that good of a guy to begin with. I guess I just got the most out of her because we were married for 5 years with 2 kids. I doubt her next relationship makes it a year.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Sad. How old are y'all?


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> TBH at this point, she has been keeping OM nearby all along, so I am willing to let him have her. They won't last 6 months now that they don't have to sneak around. I'm sure he sees the dollar signs that she will get in our CP settlement, but he will soon realize how hard it is to make her happy. My therapist said yesterday that this is how she operates. Tells herself she's in love, goes all in that he is the best guy in the world (KISA) then gets tired of him and dumps him while telling her family that he was never that good of a guy to begin with. I guess I just got the most out of her because we were married for 5 years with 2 kids. I doubt her next relationship makes it a year.


You are right most relationships out of cheating do not last.


----------



## dadof2

Blossom Leigh said:


> Sad. How old are y'all?


I'm 32 she's 31. One of these days I will post our entire story from the day we met until DDay. Its funny looking back I see SOOO many signs that I missed. But we do the best we can with what we have at the time.


----------



## dadof2

tom67 said:


> You are right most relationships out of cheating do not last.


That's what I have read also, Tom. I hope it doesn't last just because of the way it started. If we are to be divorced, I would rather her find someone on her own outside of our marriage rather than be with the guy that helped break up our family.

She is still taking the stimulants, mostly to suppress her appetite. Sadly this will continue to spiral downward for her. It may take years but she is frying her brain with those pills. It doesn't seem to effect her daily life, but I have read that over time it will wear her down to where the dosage is never enough.


----------



## azteca1986

dadof2 said:


> I'm 32 she's 31. One of these days I will post our entire story from the day we met until DDay. Its funny looking back I see SOOO many signs that I missed. But we do the best we can with what we have at the time.


We're not born knowing. It only becomes clear in hindsight. It would be a useful resource though. Please share this when you have time mate.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Yes we do, Dadof2, do our best at the time. 

You are SO young. By the time my ex was your age he was dating a 22 year old me. By the time my H now was your age he had just met the 37 year old me. LOL 

I'm now 45 and see very well the blindness in your wife. She is going to have big regrets later, ESPECIALLY when the kids realize why y'all split, and they will find out.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



dadof2 said:


> TBH at this point, she has been keeping OM nearby all along, so I am willing to let him have her. They won't last 6 months now that they don't have to sneak around. I'm sure he sees the dollar signs that she will get in our CP settlement, but he will soon realize how hard it is to make her happy. My therapist said yesterday that this is how she operates. Tells herself she's in love, goes all in that he is the best guy in the world (KISA) then gets tired of him and dumps him while telling her family that he was never that good of a guy to begin with. I guess I just got the most out of her because we were married for 5 years with 2 kids. I doubt her next relationship makes it a year.


You could ratchet up the pressure by exposing their actions after the divorce. It certainly would hasten their breakup.


----------



## LongWalk

dadof2 said:


> That's what I have read also, Tom. I hope it doesn't last just because of the way it started. If we are to be divorced, I would rather her find someone on her own outside of our marriage rather than be with the guy that helped break up our family.
> 
> She is still taking the stimulants, mostly to suppress her appetite. Sadly this will continue to spiral downward for her. It may take years but she is frying her brain with those pills. It doesn't seem to effect her daily life, but I have read that over time it will wear her down to where the dosage is never enough.


Do you think OM's children are safe with her?



> I'm 32 she's 31. One of these days I will post our entire story from the day we met until DDay. Its funny looking back I see SOOO many signs that I missed. But we do the best we can with what we have at the time.


:smthumbup: It is very good that you could write this last paragraph. Surely you are becoming more clear headed by the hour. We feel your suffering. You would like to be her KISA, but you also see that it doesn't work.

If and when you meet OM's ex wife, you may discover that she knows about your wife and is worried about her children.


----------



## weightlifter

32. Lol id kill to be only 32 again.

Life 2.0. You will be surprised where you will be on oct 7 2019.


----------



## IIJokerII

weightlifter said:


> 32. Lol id kill to be only 32 again.
> 
> Life 2.0. You will be surprised where you will be on oct 7 2019.


It ain't the years, its the mileage. And if truth be told this experience adds years of mental and often physical stress. 

2019! I am surprised where I am now!!!!


----------



## just got it 55

dadof2 said:


> I'm 32 she's 31. One of these days I will post our entire story from the day we met until DDay. Its funny looking back I see SOOO many signs that I missed. But we do the best we can with what we have at the time.


dad ( have trouble calling a young man dad

I have stuff in my freezer older than you

You have so much life left to have fun always.

55


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

turnera said:


> I'm not telling you this to make you feel bad. Your marriage is gone and OM will probably be your kids' new stepdad as soon as the ink is dry. I'm saying this for all the OTHER people reading this who are afraid to be 'mean' to their cheating wife and think it's safer/easier to just wait her out. _It doesn't work._ In 15 years, I've only seen one case where waiting worked, and in that case, she ended up having life-altering illnesses and really needed her husband back. In 15 years, I've seen dozens of ex-cheaters come back and say the ONLY reason they stopped cheating was because their husband got pissed off and IMMEDIATELY said him or me and if she didn't agree, he got aggressive. In fact, those women, almost every one, said they really WANTED their husband to be aggressive and were happy he was.


The biggest downside 2 doing what you suggest here, is that the WW will want 2 come back. No, it can get worse. The BH will still want the WW 2 come back, even after being treated so cruelly and after being hosed over and over by the OM.

No, it's better this way. She's less inclined 2 come back and ruin Dad's life.

Gadzooks, why anyone would want such a blatant cheater back for any reason is beyond me.

-ol' 2long


----------



## tryingpatience

weightlifter said:


> 32. Lol id kill to be only 32 again.
> 
> Life 2.0. You will be surprised where you will be on oct 7 2019.


I didn't believe it when others told me but even 6 months from now things will look and feel entirely different. So start getting excited about living your new life.


----------



## IIJokerII

2long said:


> The biggest downside 2 doing what you suggest here, is that the WW will want 2 come back. No, it can get worse. The BH will still want the WW 2 come back, even after being treated so cruelly and after being hosed over and over by the OM.
> 
> No, it's better this way. She's less inclined 2 come back and ruin Dad's life.
> 
> Gadzooks, why anyone would want such a blatant cheater back for any reason is beyond me.
> 
> -ol' 2long


Humans are not accosted the ability to choose who they fall in love with. Only the consequences and reactions thereafter. Letting go of a wayward is difficult, it is like losing a family member to death yet they still live. The person who died is the one you remember fondly while the poltergeist the wayward became haunts you till no end. And the worst part is, especially with children involved, is whatever interlinked aspects of our lives cannot for any reason be purged or altered. The haunting will, to some degree, continue. 

Truthfully, the day will come when Dad knows for sure that he is over her, whether he recognizes it or not will be an open question.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

dadof2 said:


> TBH at this point, she has been keeping OM nearby all along, so I am willing to let him have her. They won't last 6 months now that they don't have to sneak around. I'm sure he sees the dollar signs that she will get in our CP settlement, but he will soon realize how hard it is to make her happy. My therapist said yesterday that this is how she operates. Tells herself she's in love, goes all in that he is the best guy in the world (KISA) then gets tired of him and dumps him while telling her family that he was never that good of a guy to begin with. I guess I just got the most out of her because we were married for 5 years with 2 kids. I doubt her next relationship makes it a year.


Ask your lawyer if you can put your assets in a family trust for the kids.

-ol' 2long


----------



## BWBill

_ ...but he will soon realize how hard it is to make her happy. My therapist said yesterday that this is how she operates. Tells herself she's in love, goes all in that he is the best guy in the world (KISA) then gets tired of him and dumps him while telling her family that he was never that good of a guy to begin with. _

I'm so glad you are now able to see her for what she really is. No longer blinded by love you can move on and focus on what's right for you and your kids.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

32?

I was never that young!

I'll be 62 in March. Married 39 years this December. I've got ailments older than Dof2!

-ol' 2long


----------



## Syco

This has probably been picked up by others, but...why hasn't this guy faced any consequences? If we forget for a second that it was your wife he slept with - would parents be OK with this man educating their child when he had no problem destroying a family unit?


----------



## bandit.45

Syco said:


> This has probably been picked up by others, but...why hasn't this guy faced any consequences? If we forget for a second that it was your wife he slept with - would parents be OK with this man educating their child when he had no problem destroying a family unit?


Because dad is a nice guy.


----------



## IIJokerII

bandit.45 said:


> Because dad is a nice guy.


Weren't we all at one point?


----------



## bandit.45

IIJokerII said:


> Weren't we all at one point?


Not me. I've always been a d!ck.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Not me. I've always been a d!ck.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::lol:


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> I'm 32 she's 31. One of these days I will post our entire story from the day we met until DDay. Its funny looking back I see SOOO many signs that I missed. But we do the best we can with what we have at the time.


Just curious... did anyone -- at any point in your pre-marriage relationship w/ your STBX -- point any of this stuff out to you? Parents? Siblings? Friends?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

bandit.45 said:


> Not me. I've always been a d!ck.


:rofl:


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Just curious... did anyone -- at any point in your pre-marriage relationship w/ your STBX -- point any of this stuff out to you? Parents? Siblings? Friends?


Dad just read MMSLP and no more mr. nice guy.
And come back when you feel like it.


----------



## GusPolinski

tom67 said:


> Dad just read MMSLP and no more mr. nice guy.
> And come back when you feel like it.


:::looks around:::

Uhhh... Me...?


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



bandit.45 said:


> Not me. I've always been a d!ck.


Yeah but you're our d!ck.


----------



## Augusto

play the game.....get an RO against her BF regarding your children and encourage the POSOM's wife to do the same to your STBXW. PUT BOTH OF THEIR CHEATING ASSES ON CHEATERVILLE!!!


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> :::looks around:::
> 
> Uhhh... Me...?


Sorry forgot to take you off the "quote"


----------



## Augusto

FYI...Some states you can sue the outside party playing a part in causing breakup of a marriage. If you live in a state like that, put a suit on his ass. 50 bucks said she'd com crawling back in shame. Then you introduce her to your hot GF.


----------



## IIJokerII

Augusto said:


> FYI...Some states you can sue the outside party playing a part in causing breakup of a marriage. If you live in a state like that, put a suit on his ass. 50 bucks said she'd com crawling back in shame. Then you introduce her to your hot GF.


Although you are correct, the amount of time and resources would be better spent elsewhere as his chances at vindication would not only accomplish nothing but also keep his wounds open. Like chaparral said, his best counter to disrupt the party is to expose far and wide without abandon. Punish the liars with the truth until it hurts. And it wouldn't cost a dime and with the seed planted within peoples thoughts the payback will be just and swift.


----------



## jim123

dadof2 said:


> That's what I have read also, Tom. I hope it doesn't last just because of the way it started. If we are to be divorced, I would rather her find someone on her own outside of our marriage rather than be with the guy that helped break up our family.
> 
> She is still taking the stimulants, mostly to suppress her appetite. Sadly this will continue to spiral downward for her. It may take years but she is frying her brain with those pills. It doesn't seem to effect her daily life, but I have read that over time it will wear her down to where the dosage is never enough.


Time to focus on you.


----------



## honcho

GusPolinski said:


> Just curious... did anyone -- at any point in your pre-marriage relationship w/ your STBX -- point any of this stuff out to you? Parents? Siblings? Friends?


In an ideal world this would happen but how many siblings or parents are going to explain the downside of the stbx when they think he or she has found a real catch? 

In my case no one ever gave me a clue until my wedding night when her drunk Dad told me "good luck dealing with her the rest of your life....your gonna need it more than you know."

I figured he was just drunk. I should have listened.....


----------



## tom67

honcho said:


> In an ideal world this would happen but how many siblings or parents are going to explain the downside of the stbx when they think he or she has found a real catch?
> 
> In my case no one ever gave me a clue until my wedding night when her drunk Dad told me "good luck dealing with her the rest of your life....your gonna need it more than you know."
> 
> I figured he was just drunk. I should have listened.....


If your ex fil had any huevos he would have...
Never mind honcho.


----------



## NotLikeYou

So this thread started on May 30, 2014.

The last comment I made was post #1917 on the thread, page 128, on September 27.

There are some posters commenting frequently on this thread. They are deeply invested in the tale, and I don't blame them, because its a darn good one. And its easy to get lost in the ebb and flow of events, and discussing the latest update, and commenting on other posters' comments, and all that good stuff.

This post is for ya'll, and I hope it provides some perspective for future comments.

I'm going to give you a glimpse into the OP's mind, through his own words. You haven't seen him this way, because its spread out over 28 pages and a weeks worth of reading, but this is the real him.

Sept 29, post # 1917: "Very cautious about moving towards R."

Oct 02, post # 1983: "thought things may have been moving towards an attempt at R."

Oct 02, post # 1988: "All along I have been the only one who ever held her accountable for what she is doing."

Oct 02, post # 1998: "I am a strong man!"

Oct 02, post # 2019: "I have been reading over our divorce settlement this morning and it brings tears to my eyes"

Oct 06, post # 2114: "I talked to her sister last week...."

Oct 06, post # 2118: "I don't think I was ever desperate to have her back.... Maybe over eagerness...."

Oct 06, post # 2123: These next 2 days will be tough on me because...."

Oct 06, post 2131: "Well apparently, STBX got word that I talked to her sister..... I know I shouldn't have engaged but I couldn't resist."

Oct 06, post # 2149: "Yes, I intend to go dark now."

Oct 07, post 2169: "I talked to SIL again last night....."

Oct 07, post # 2174: "Nothing I could have done other than be a complete doormat and rugsweeper would have satisfied her"

And after 146 pages, where Dof2 has said everything he's said, done everything he's done, not done lots of things that he's said, and not said lots of things that he's done, what comes next?

Oct 07, post # 2186: "I don't want to turn this thread into a 'What Dof2 should have done' thread. How about what STBX should have done?"

I tip my hat to anyone commenting on TAM trying to help people through life's challenges. There are lots of people out there hurting and struggling to make it through the turmoil they are embroiled in.

One of the frustrations about TAM is that you don't know the people in real life. You can never really tell what they're looking for. I have a sneaking suspicion that Dof2 is getting exactly what he is looking for, and that it is not what many of the commenters on his thread think he is in search of.

I don't have any good advice for him. Somewhere over the course of 150 pages, any advice I could suggest has already been offered up and ignored, probably more than once. Which is telling in itself, if one stops commenting long enough to contemplate this detail.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> B*y Dadof2*
> TBH at this point, she has been keeping OM nearby all along, so I am willing to let him have her. They won't last 6 months now that they don't have to sneak around. I'm sure he sees the dollar signs that she will get in our CP settlement, but he will soon realize how hard it is to make her happy. My therapist said yesterday that this is how she operates. Tells herself she's in love, goes all in that he is the best guy in the world (KISA) then gets tired of him and dumps him while telling her family that he was never that good of a guy to begin with. I guess I just got the most out of her because we were married for 5 years with 2 kids. I doubt her next relationship makes it a year









*Even if they make it together for over a year their relationship lacks the basic proof of trust and loyalty.* Both your wife and the OM willfully betrayed their family to please their ego, sex, excitement, or whatever. The bottom line is that they both have proven that they will lie, cheat, and choose themselves over their family. That Is a HUGE breach of loyalty and trust. When those two hit the rough spots in life, and it is not if but when, then they both will know that they both have seriously damaged their integrity and loyalty and will not be able to be much support for each other. *The excitement with each other will be over and they will be missing the main strength and emotional support that is necessary for a strong relationship. *There is a good reason that second marriages often fail when there has been infidelity in the first marriage.


You are deeply hurt that she has replaced you with another man but know that you can get through this in time and eventually it will not bother you much at all. I know that you want it all to go away right now but it will not. However, by reading your posts you are gaining every week and have the right attitude. If you are here next year you will be able to tell us how much better you are in the hurt department. *Your wife’s rejection/betrayal of you is on her not you.*


I know the deep pain of having your innocent children’s time taken from you. You probably will have at least a 50% custody/visitation agreement but that is not the same as you being available to them 100%. My son lost his son JJ at the age of 5 to the mother as she took off to another state. There was visitation from time to time but after the boy turned 9 he came to live with his father, my son. Why? Because my son worked on himself and got better every year and she did not work on herself and she got worse every year. Now JJ sees his mother about twice a year for a few days but is closely tied to his father. This has been going on for over 10 years. So what happened was that my son had to suffer for 4 years but *a child will come to know which parent loves them the most.* Your wife can come out of her fog and become a better mother but my son's wfe did not.


Dadof2, if you are a good father and I believe that you are, then the other man will never be able to replace you for any length of time. Your wife is the children’s mother and they will probably have some attachment to her. In my son’s case it is very obvious that his son is much closer to him than his mother.
Dadof2, you are going to have pain for a while but you will get much better each year. I say this because I believe that your are going to keep improving (I am NOT saying that you are fault for your wife’s betrayal) and* in time she will be of very little importance in your life and the pain will be completely gone.* The first year is the toughest and you have already past the hardest first 6 months.


If you post here next October 2015, I would bet money that your will be a WHOLE LOT better!!
*Hold on because you are going to get better!!*


----------



## LongWalk

The big change in this thread is that a soft spoken man impressed everyone with his character. He is quite a steadfast person and he really loved this very flawed woman.

Once Dof2 exposed to the school board and did the 180 he opened a window of opportunity that led back to square one, the cheater had always been cheating. Now, though, he no longer has illusions about her character. He is blaming himself for being so blind. That's what falling in love is about.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> The big change in this thread is that a soft spoken man impressed everyone with his character. He is quite a steadfast person and he really loved this very flawed woman.
> 
> Once Dof2 exposed to the school board and did the 180 he opened a window of opportunity that led back to square one, the cheater had always been cheating. Now, though, he no longer has illusions about her character. He is blaming himself for being so blind. That's what falling in love is about.


Yes!!!
:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## IIJokerII

NotLikeYou said:


> I tip my hat to anyone commenting on TAM trying to help people through life's challenges. There are lots of people out there hurting and struggling to make it through the turmoil they are embroiled in.
> 
> One of the frustrations about TAM is that you don't know the people in real life. You can never really tell what they're looking for. I have a sneaking suspicion that Dof2 is getting exactly what he is looking for, and that it is not what many of the commenters on his thread think he is in search of.
> 
> I don't have any good advice for him. Somewhere over the course of 150 pages, any advice I could suggest has already been offered up and ignored, probably more than once. Which is telling in itself, if one stops commenting long enough to contemplate this detail.


His redundancy is not choice of ignoring anyone's advice, he is, or hopefully was going thru withdrawal. How many people try to quit smoking, knowing full well the damage it does yet continue anyway. He held out hope, he tried, he fought the good fight. Only once he accepted the situation for what it was did he really begin to detach. The efforts of yourself and the rest of the people here were not in vain or a waste of time. The comments and suggestions provided reinforced his self esteem and sense of reality. He was finally able to not only question her actions but challenge them with confidence. Seeing where he was and where he is now is remarkable considering the circumstances he withstood, the RO was damaging enough, but the reasoning behind it was completely cruel.


----------



## just got it 55

dad mirrors should have warning on them for POS like your STBXW

They are not made for people like her

At the end of the day isn't that what we want to tell ourselves

At least I can look at myself in the mirror .

Literal self reflection

55

ETA: She should be deader than Nixon to you


----------



## LongWalk

Who here is worried about OM's children? Is Dadof2's wife going to waltz into their lives, act irresponsibly and then waltz out?

If and when Dof2 meets OM's ex, he will see someone else who is suffering. He will have chance to leave the victim's position and see the bigger situation.

Amphetamine abuse, yikes.


----------



## Squeakr

LongWalk said:


> Who here is worried about OM's children? Is Dadof2's wife going to waltz into their lives, act irresponsibly and then waltz out?


Although it is a good question, I don't think most have considered this question. I would think that most question if their life really can be made that much worse by her. They have already gone through D, and they have at least one spouse that has little moral and decent character (as can be witnessed through his willingness and carelessness to destroy anther family through participation in infidelity and willingness to coach on heinous acts such as an RO, and such) and we know nothing about OMXW, as she could be just as awful as OM or she could be a saint and have primary custody.

If she were to come here I think the concern for those children would be voiced then.


----------



## dadof2

IIJokerII said:


> His redundancy is not choice of ignoring anyone's advice, he is, or hopefully was going thru withdrawal. How many people try to quit smoking, knowing full well the damage it does yet continue anyway. He held out hope, he tried, he fought the good fight. Only once he accepted the situation for what it was did he really begin to detach. The efforts of yourself and the rest of the people here were not in vain or a waste of time. The comments and suggestions provided reinforced his self esteem and sense of reality. He was finally able to not only question her actions but challenge them with confidence. Seeing where he was and where he is now is remarkable considering the circumstances he withstood, the RO was damaging enough, but the reasoning behind it was completely cruel.


Thanks Joker, you put into words better than I could. I could take snippets of my posts over the last 5 months and paint myself in any way I wanted to. I believe everyone here has given great advice and of course it is a roller coaster. Each time I would question myself or wonder what to do next I would either make a post and read the responses or read someone else's thread that had been down my road.

I would hope everyone knows that their posts are not in vain. I would be in a totally different spot if I had never come here. Your posts give me the confidence and the clear head I need to make certain decisions. I have a lot invested emotionally in this and sometimes its better to make the decision based on an unemotional stance.


----------



## just got it 55

dadof2 said:


> Thanks Joker, you put into words better than I could. I could take snippets of my posts over the last 5 months and paint myself in any way I wanted to. I believe everyone here has given great advice and of course it is a roller coaster. Each time I would question myself or wonder what to do next I would either make a post and read the responses or read someone else's thread that had been down my road.
> 
> I would hope everyone knows that their posts are not in vain. I would be in a totally different spot if I had never come here. Your posts give me the confidence and the clear head I need to make certain decisions. *I have a lot invested emotionally in this and sometimes its better to make the decision based on an unemotional stance*.


dad given the circumstances that just about impossible 

Sucks to be human........ If no children were involved then you would have a chance to make a decision based on logic.

55


----------



## tryingpatience

Something that you can start doing now is sharing a little bit of your story with other people. Especially with other women you know. That will start generating interest. When I did that friends started offering to hook me up with someone. Doing that opened doors for me. Share a little bit but not too much.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Are the kid drop offs still being done the same way before the R/O was lifted?


----------



## harrybrown

Sorry for all your pain. 

I do hope you will be able to detach and move on. 

You will be so much better off without her doing this to you again if you stayed married to her. 

I do hope you go out with the ladies that your SIL mentioned to you.

You can be proud of how your tried for your kids. 

I do hope you will have a better future, with less pain. I hope your divorce will be final soon so you can be free of the poison.


----------



## dadof2

Case- Yes we are back to doing child swaps at daycare. She drops them off in the morning and when my days start I pick them up that afternoon. Our youngest is now in PreK so we have to see each other more than over the summer for school functions, teacher meetings, etc.

Harry- Thanks a lot, I appreciate your words. I hope I can detach as well. I do feel like I tried everything, even put up with more than I should have. I am working on finding a new, better woman for me and my kids. I am not pursuing anyone at the moment but I am getting excited about the hunt. Some days I do feel hopeless about the future, but I guess that is to be expected.


----------



## farsidejunky

D02:

Take your time, brother. You just went through something excruciating. You should be in no rush to run out and find a replacement for your soon to be ex wife.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

FYI, It can take up to 2 years to recover from an affair and up to five to recover from a divorce. Familiarize yourself with the "grief cycle" since this will trigger that cycle, so that you will know how to navigate it well. You sound like you are in a good spot mentally for the most part. Good on ya. So, I echo the take your time advice.


----------



## just got it 55

farsidejunky said:


> D02:
> 
> Take your time, brother. You just went through something excruciating. You should be in no rush to run out and find a replacement for your soon to be ex wife.


dad don't be surprised if a new one finds you !!

55


----------



## tom67

just got it 55 said:


> dad don't be surprised if a new one finds you !!
> 
> 55


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## azteca1986

dadof2 said:


> I am working on finding a new, better woman for me and my kids. I am not pursuing anyone at the moment but I am getting excited about the hunt. Some days I do feel hopeless about the future, but I guess that is to be expected.


I let you in to a little secret. On the few occasions I've popped into our local supermarket with my son (but without my wife) I can't help but notice how long it takes to process us. The checkout girls are so chatty. On my own, as they know us all well, they're polite and businesslike. But if I'm there with my son they make such a fuss of him. Women of all ages will engage me out of the blue "Oh he's so adorable...". Apparently I'm amazingly more approachable with our son in close proximity. Because I'm wearing my ring these conversations go nothing beyond friendly.

But, if I were to be divorced in six months and was a father of two, just doing general daddy things, I wouldn't worry about finding a better woman. They will find you 

All in good time of course.


----------



## helolover

And further perspective for Do2 for the future:

I was married to a woman similar to your wife. My X is disordered and nuked her marriage and family for her crisis and desires to be with other men. Her family believed her story fully and I was made out to be a controlling angry abuser. She was catered to her entire life, bailed out, and absolved of ANY responsibility for any of her actions throughout her entire life. She constantly needed rescued. I did that all of the time - from each self manufactured crisis to the next. Finally, she needed validation and rescuing from another chump. 

Thank God. My separation and divorce gave me the life lessons I needed to learn. I was co-D too. I was addicted to rescuing and fixing. I put her needs first always, and took satisfaction in being a martyr. I was very much part of the problem. I fixed myself. It took quite a lot of self reflection, reading, and development. My starting point was NMMNG book and forum along with CoDependent No More by Melanie Beattie. Both books were great wake up calls. I also had IC, which helped somewhat - mostly just talking to someone. I rebuilt my friendship with other men too. That's essential. 

I've recently started seeing a very different type of woman. A woman with self esteem. A woman who doesn't need rescuing who comes to the table with something to offer. A woman who approaches me with respect and values me. What a nice change. 

They're out there, Do2. Fix yourself first. Date when you're ready, but don't become emotionally involved until you are single for a bit. 

You and your kids are going to heal and be fine. Regardless if this other wanker is in the picture, he will never be their father. You are - and demand to be so.


----------



## LongWalk

The presence of a child tells a woman many things:

1) Your sperm functions
2) You care about your DNA, you are feeding it
3) You had enough of whatever to bed a woman, validation
4) You are not with that woman and she will be curious to know who dumped whom.
5) You kid is cute, then her kid with you will be cute.


----------



## happyman64

dadof2 said:


> Case- Yes we are back to doing child swaps at daycare. She drops them off in the morning and when my days start I pick them up that afternoon. Our youngest is now in PreK so we have to see each other more than over the summer for school functions, teacher meetings, etc.
> 
> Harry- Thanks a lot, I appreciate your words. I hope I can detach as well. I do feel like I tried everything, even put up with more than I should have. I am working on finding a new, better woman for me and my kids. I am not pursuing anyone at the moment but I am getting excited about the hunt. Some days I do feel hopeless about the future, but I guess that is to be expected.


When you feel helpless and not excited about the hunt you should go to Starbucks, get a nice drink and check out the ladies.

If you are not dating anyone by the Spring then go out and pick Up the cutest little puppy Schnauzer you can find.

Take the dog for long walks. You will meet young ladies that think you are so cute,,, I mean the the dog is so cute. 

But the dog serves a 2nd purpose. You will have companionship and your kids will go bonkers and want to spend all their time with you and the dog.

It will drive your Ex crazier than she is already.


----------



## bfree

happyman64 said:


> When you feel helpless and not excited about the hunt you should go to Starbucks, get a nice drink and check out the ladies.
> 
> If you are not dating anyone by the Spring then go out and pick Up the cutest little puppy Schnauzer you can find.
> 
> Take the dog for long walks. You will meet young ladies that think you are so cute,,, I mean the the dog is so cute.
> 
> But the dog serves a 2nd purpose. You will have companionship and your kids will go bonkers and want to spend all their time with you and the dog.
> 
> It will drive your Ex crazier than she is already.


Forget the Schnauzer.

Survey Says Men and Women Attracted by Certain Dog Breeds - PawNation

_For men looking to woo the ladies, the top breed likely to attract a potential girlfriend is the German Shepherd. Similar to their male counterparts, women are also enamored by men who own Golden Retrievers and Labrador Retrievers, as well as Huskies and French Bulldogs._


----------



## Augusto

dadof2 said:


> Case- Yes we are back to doing child swaps at daycare. She drops them off in the morning and when my days start I pick them up that afternoon. Our youngest is now in PreK so we have to see each other more than over the summer for school functions, teacher meetings, etc.
> 
> Harry- Thanks a lot, I appreciate your words. I hope I can detach as well. I do feel like I tried everything, even put up with more than I should have. I am working on finding a new, better woman for me and my kids. I am not pursuing anyone at the moment but I am getting excited about the hunt. Some days I do feel hopeless about the future, but I guess that is to be expected.


I think that is a good goal....but I would slow it down. Unless she's hot.


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> When you feel helpless and not excited about the hunt you should go to Starbucks, get a nice drink and check out the ladies.
> 
> If you are not dating anyone by the Spring then go out and pick Up the cutest little puppy Schnauzer you can find.
> 
> Take the dog for long walks. You will meet young ladies that think you are so cute,,, I mean the the dog is so cute.
> 
> But the dog serves a 2nd purpose. You will have companionship and your kids will go bonkers and want to spend all their time with you and the dog.
> 
> It will drive your Ex crazier than she is already.


Beagle puppy.


----------



## 3putt

bfree said:


> Forget the Schnauzer.
> 
> Survey Says Men and Women Attracted by Certain Dog Breeds - PawNation
> 
> _For men looking to woo the ladies, the top breed likely to attract a potential girlfriend is the German Shepherd. Similar to their male counterparts, women are also enamored by men who own Golden Retrievers and Labrador Retrievers, as well as Huskies and French Bulldogs._


Can't go wrong with a Boxer either. If there's a woman out there that doesn't have her heart melt with the attention and love a Boxer can give, you don't want anything to do with her.

Personal experience speaking. Awesome dogs.


----------



## happyman64

bfree said:


> Forget the Schnauzer.
> 
> Survey Says Men and Women Attracted by Certain Dog Breeds - PawNation
> 
> _For men looking to woo the ladies, the top breed likely to attract a potential girlfriend is the German Shepherd. Similar to their male counterparts, women are also enamored by men who own Golden Retrievers and Labrador Retrievers, as well as Huskies and French Bulldogs._



Well the Schnauzer worked for me Bfree. 

Every dog you picked out sheds by the way.

And what is a Brit doing picking out a "French" Bulldog. You should be ashamed of yourself. 

Then again Bfree maybe you are not a Brit. And my iPad is freaking out from this new crappy iOS......


----------



## LongWalk

Black labrador retrievers attract attention. But the dog itself is a lot of work to train. Knocking people down to say hi, bolting dead animals down for snacks, running off, chasing joggers and postmen.

Met a cute woman runner but she only cared about the dog and was not interested in dating some middle aged dog owner.

Actually my brother bought the dog for my parents. My SIL hates it. When I brought it over to their house one time it cornered a baby fawn inside the backyard fence around the pool. It was trying to figure out how to do it in and my SIL ran in and screamed at me to do something. So I got out my iPhone and ran out after her and took pictures of her saving the animal. I put the pictures of her with the deer baby in her arms and letting out into the woods. I then put them up on Facebook. Her friends clicked like. But she was so mad.

I deleted the entry after my brother told me to take down but all I did was change the viewing setting to no one but that didn't work because I had tagged her and FB allows someone permission if you tag them.

So a dog that creates trouble is a chick magnet and more.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

bfree said:


> Forget the Schnauzer.
> 
> Survey Says Men and Women Attracted by Certain Dog Breeds - PawNation
> 
> _For men looking to woo the ladies, the top breed likely to attract a potential girlfriend is the German Shepherd. Similar to their male counterparts, women are also enamored by men who own Golden Retrievers and Labrador Retrievers, as well as Huskies and French Bulldogs._


You are so right. I am so in love with the German Shepherd breed. I've stopoed my truck in the middle of the road to talk to a man walking his GS. That would not happen with a small dog.

Smaller dogs make me think another woman is around that man and he didnt stand up to her and get the dog he really wanted.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

3putt said:


> Can't go wrong with a Boxer either. If there's a woman out there that doesn't have her heart melt with the attention and love a Boxer can give, you don't want anything to do with her.
> 
> Personal experience speaking. Awesome dogs.


Yes they are!! I've had two huge German Shepherds, and the dog I have right now is a German Shepherd Boxer mix. She is smart as hell, funny and very affectionate.

And for the record I think Golden Retrievers are one of the most beautiful and sweetest dogs on the planet and have wanted one for a long time.


----------



## happyman64

I might have to start a "dog" thread.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



happyman64 said:


> Well the Schnauzer worked for me Bfree.
> 
> Every dog you picked out sheds by the way.
> 
> And what is a Brit doing picking out a "French" Bulldog. You should be ashamed of yourself.
> 
> Then again Bfree maybe you are not a Brit. And my iPad is freaking out from this new crappy iOS......


We're all Brits at heart.


----------



## IIJokerII

The American Staffordshire terrier. Pit's are the sh!t...


----------



## Forest

happyman64 said:


> I might have to start a "dog" thread.


German Shepherd. 

Easy to train, reads your mind. Regal, commands attention. Must have a stable and confident owner, though.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Forest said:


> German Shepherd.
> 
> Easy to train, reads your mind. Regal, commands attention. Must have a stable and confident owner, though.


Which is exactly what good women look for in a man  So there ya go... lol its settled.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

happyman64 said:


> I might have to start a "dog" thread.


Ok Happy Man... here's your dog thread  Just started one in the social spot since they ARE man's best friend 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/social-spot/225322-dog-thread.html#post10611210


----------



## karole

German Shepherd gets my vote.


----------



## just got it 55

Siberians Dumb as a bag of hammers but

More fun than any dog period

Completely nomadic they eat and kill everything

Non stop shedding 

But my avatar says it all

55


----------



## turnera

We have a 95-pound black golden retriever mix that thinks it's a lap dog. Sweetest dog I've ever met in my life. DD24 uses her as a body pillow. And people (including women) just can't resist coming up to her and loving all over her. Which is fine with her, of course. We're training her to be a therapy dog, she's so gentle (great way to meet nurses!).


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

bfree said:


> Forget the Schnauzer.
> 
> Survey Says Men and Women Attracted by Certain Dog Breeds - PawNation
> 
> _For men looking to woo the ladies, the top breed likely to attract a potential girlfriend is the German Shepherd. Similar to their male counterparts, women are also enamored by men who own Golden Retrievers and Labrador Retrievers, as well as Huskies and French Bulldogs._


What about tropical fish?


----------



## 3putt

2long said:


> What about tropical fish?


They make great Schnauzer snacks.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



2long said:


> What about tropical fish?


By that time you already have them in your place. The hard work is done at that point....


----------



## just got it 55

Seems to me dad should get a new dog not a new wife

55


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## IIJokerII

just got it 55 said:


> Seems to me dad should get a new dog not a new wife
> 
> 55


Tell me about it, it is a damn shame when a so called animal can exhibit more loyalty than us so called evolved species, even when they are treated like crap.


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## tom67

just got it 55 said:


> Seems to me dad should get a new dog not a new wife
> 
> 55


:rofl:


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## clipclop2

All God's creatures can make a mess in your life. Dogs too. They can be put down though. You dont have to pay them not to live with you anymore. Seems pretty unfair by comparison, eh?


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## bandit.45

No...a miniature horse. You can house train them.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> No...a miniature horse. You can house train them.


"Wilbur"


----------



## DayOne

bfree said:


> Forget the Schnauzer.
> 
> Survey Says Men and Women Attracted by Certain Dog Breeds - PawNation
> 
> _For men looking to woo the ladies, the top breed likely to attract a potential girlfriend is the German Shepherd. Similar to their male counterparts, women are also enamored by men who own Golden Retrievers and Labrador Retrievers, as well as Huskies and French Bulldogs._



So i should be OK then (if it ever comes to that). That's my GS and my Collie/Lab mix (in front). The Retriever is my Sisters, but i can borrow him if needed....


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## tom67

DayOne said:


> So i should be OK then (if it ever comes to that). That's my GS and my Collie/Lab mix (in front). The Retriever is my Sisters, but i can borrow him if needed....


Stop it I want to take them.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Gorgeous dogs Day One! So sweet . Yep, you're covered. :smthumbup:


----------



## dadof2

Well it looks like this thread has gone to the dogs!! 

Hope y'all had a good weekend, I had the kiddos with me, hard to drop them off this morning and not seeing them for a few days.

Nothing new on the D front, still NC with STBX. I am hoping to have my lawyer send her a CP proposal. Once we get that settled, it will just be the wait for the 1 year separation period to end. The 25th of this month will be the 6 month mark.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> Well it looks like this thread has gone to the dogs!!
> 
> Hope y'all had a good weekend, I had the kiddos with me, hard to drop them off this morning and not seeing them for a few days.
> 
> Nothing new on the D front, still NC with STBX. I am hoping to have my lawyer send her a CP proposal. Once we get that settled, it will just be the wait for the 1 year separation period to end. The 25th of this month will be the 6 month mark.


So I guess you are going through the dog days right now.
Sorry the kids are so young for you not for them as they will adjust fine.


----------



## bfree

tom67 said:


> *So I guess you are going through the dog days right now.*
> Sorry the kids are so young for you not for them as they will adjust fine.


Well, someone was bound to do it. I guess it is just as well that it was you. :rofl:


----------



## bfree

Dad, just make sure to take care of your health during this adjustment time. Get out, exercise, meet new people. You'll come out of this okay.


----------



## LongWalk

Good that she didn't quit her job.

No kids means you can run. Go for it.

She's not going to send pics of your kids now, but she is thinking of ways to engage you. She may not want you but she's a dog in the manger, not a cute breed.


----------



## harrybrown

You know that kisses would only excite her if she was cheating on her marriage.

She could not get the thrill, because she was not cheating at the time.

Your life will be so much better, because she would do this again.

I do hope your kids will be ok.


----------



## dadof2

harrybrown said:


> Your life will be so much better, because she would do this again.
> 
> I do hope your kids will be ok.


Thanks Harry, after talking to a few guys this weekend that were divorced after 20+ years of marriage, I realize that our 5 years of M can be a small thing in the big picture. These guys lost half of their hard earned retirement, etc. We had started building a nice nest egg, but at least I have most of my working life ahead of me to rebuild it.

I am still dealing with the sting of the rejection. Not as bad as after Dday, but it still seeps in. I know I tried everything I could to help her save her marriage, but in the end its not what she wanted to do. It does hurt me to think that her whole family supports her and sees me as the bad guy. I know everyone says to just live my life and not worry about her anymore, but I would like to see her suffer at some point. I guess when the fantasy world of affairland dies off she will then realize that I wasn't such a bad guy after all. I know her pride will never allow her to admit it though.


----------



## BWBill

_ I guess when the fantasy world of affairland dies off she will then realize that I wasn't such a bad guy after all._

She doesn't think you're a bad guy, she's just portraying you as one because it suits her needs. She's going to be sweet as pie to her new love because it suits her needs. Get used to both of these.

You feel you lost because she left you. However, as you detach from her and start looking at her and her actions objectively you'll see that you won a new life.


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

Your WW doesn't have good judgment. She disrespected you . You stood up to her and won back her regard. She respects you. That is why she wanted to reconcile. However, she does not respect herself. Unfortunately for her, she believes that sex and fun are her biggest offering. She cannot give OM, you or any other man loyalty, chastity or steadiness. Those qualities may lie within her but she has not cultivated them.

When she rejected you sexually she was in fact admitting that she doesn't have the will power to be a better person. To her mind responsibility is not sexy. If she pulled herself together, she might sing a different tune when it comes to reconciliation. You now know you cannot wait for her to fly right. She probably does not have it in her to do it.

When it comes to the CP settlement she is going to look at all this money and see herself as more desirable. Does she want to share this with OM? Does she want to play step mom to his kids. She may jettison him too if she feels he doesn't bring enough to the table. OM's kisses will also lose their magic.

Your WW didn't calculate this all out in advance. Everything is just happening. She is out of control and she has observed this process with alarm. Hence the RO and the tears.

Luckily you have a good custody arrangement.

Christmas may be tough but sometime in January or February, you'll have gotten over the hump. Now that you know about the codependency issue, you will not get into a rebound relationship with a dysfunctional person (hopefully).

There is another poster who agreed to babysit the 9-year-old son son his relatively new GF could get her hair done. She vanished for three hours and he bought the kid a Big Mac. When she got back she chewed him out for feeding her son junk food. He was supposed to have made an organic fairtrade cold pasta salad or something. He reacted by walking straight out the door.

He is not a sucker for obnoxious shyte tests anymore.


----------



## happyman64

Dof2

The "revenge" or her suffering any consequences does not happen overnight.

My exfiance got addicted to crack 2 years after we broke up. She lost both her parents within those 2 years. She lost her license to practice law.

No one knows where she is now. Very sad.

OM1 lost both his parents in those 2 years as well. He reached out to me a few years ago. He had brain surgery to remove a tumor. He can no longer work or drive. He lives alone.

OM2 & 3 both died in 911.

OM4 lost his family due to his alcoholism.

Bad things happen to good and bad people. And not that I wished any of this on them but all I can do is chuckle to myself and believe in karma.

So stop focusing on her.

Your best revenge will be the following:

Replacing her with a beautiful, loving woman who is berserk about your kids as well as you.

Being successful at your job and providing your family with the "good" things in life like unconditional love, respect, honesty and "God" if you are so inclined.

Living a great life that produces so much happiness that it spills over to others. Including your wayward wife who does not deserve any of it but if she is lucky gets a tatse of it every once in a while and thinks to herself "Boy did I make a mistake..."

Now go live a great life. Our friend FlyFishDoc sure is. Let him be a lesson to you.

Good things happen to good people as long as they work hard for it.

HM


----------



## lordmayhem

dadof2 said:


> It does hurt me to think that her whole family supports her and sees me as the bad guy. I know everyone says to just live my life and not worry about her anymore, but I would like to see her suffer at some point. I guess when the fantasy world of affairland dies off she will then realize that I wasn't such a bad guy after all. I know her pride will never allow her to admit it though.


Did you marry my ex-wife? 

What you feel is so very common among BSs, and it takes time to heal from that because you never got closure in a sense, you wanted her family to realize her mistake and not support her. But that's not gonna happen. Blood is indeed thicker than water. For years I wanted my ex-wife to suffer at least some kind of consequences for her cheating. I felt I never got any closure. 

Then years later, I realized, she did suffer consequences for her cheating - she never got to have a full and happy marriage with me! So think about it that way. She gave up a life with a good man - you! Now some other woman out there is going to reap the benefits of having you to live out their life with.


----------



## BWBill

And let her know you're fine with the divorce. Your mantra for her and everyone is that "it's definitely for the best."

She will not understand how you can live without her. She will send you pics of the kids and random texts to keep you reminded of her. Your independence and detachment will make her forever question herself and her decision.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



BWBill said:


> And let her know you're fine with the divorce. Your mantra for her and everyone is that "it's definitely for the best."
> 
> She will not understand how you can live without her. She will send you pics of the kids and random texts to keep you reminded of her. Your independence and detachment will make her forever question herself and her decision.


D02:

She has already demonstrated this. She doesn't want you but does not want anyone else to have you either. Unfortunately, that will probably be the extent of your closure.


----------



## IIJokerII

happyman64 said:


> Dof2
> 
> The "revenge" or her suffering any consequences does not happen overnight.
> 
> My exfiance got addicted to crack 2 years after we broke up. She lost both her parents within those 2 years. She lost her license to practice law.
> 
> No one knows where she is now. Very sad.
> 
> OM1 lot both his parents in those 2 years as well. He reached out to me a few years ago. He had brain surgery to remove a tumor. He can no longer work or drive. He lives alone.
> 
> OM2 & 3 both died in 911.
> 
> OM4 lost his family due to his alcoholism.
> 
> Bad things happen to good and bad people. And not that I wished any of this on them but all I can do is chuckle to myself and believe in karma.
> 
> So stop focusing on her.
> 
> Your best revenge will be the following:
> 
> Replacing her with a beautiful, loving woman who is berserk about your kids as well as you.
> 
> Being successful at your job and providing your family with the "good" things in life like unconditional love, respect, honesty and "God" if you are so inclined.
> 
> Living a great life that produces so much happiness that it spills over to others. Including your wayward wife who does not deserve any of it but if she is lucky gets a tatse of it every once in a while and thinks to herself "Boy did I make a mistake..."
> 
> Now go live a great life. Our friend FlyFishDoc sure is. Let him be a lesson to you.
> 
> Good things happen to good people as long as they work hard for it.
> 
> HM


Agreed.

Think of it this way, if you could go back in time and watch the Titanic sink despite the harm it it going to cause other yet know there is nothing significant you could do to change things you'd ultimately late fate take it course and watch the tragedy unfold as it was meant to.

You best course of action is inaction and let whatever residual emotions you have left die down, but beware, they will never go away entirely. You must ensure you detach and stay detached by any means you can, or you will fall prey to her once again.


----------



## VFW

I agree with BWBill, somebody has to be at fault for this mess and she has chosen you. If it wasn't you at fault, then she would have to take responsibility for it herself and you know she sure ain't going to do that. Lift up your chin and take it all in stride, it ain't nothing but a thing. I have complete faith and confidence you will survive.


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

You never went for Cheaterville. Perhaps you can still gain closure of sorts there? Post a Cheaterville entry that does not name either OM or your WW? Call them Jane Doe and OM John Smith. Who live in "some town" in your state.



> Jane Doe and John Smith had an affair. Doe, the mother of a preschooler and first grader, returned to the workforce and found a full-time position as a teacher last year. Smith, the assistant principal at her school, led an after hours workout group in the late afternoons. A divorced single father, Smith knew Doe was a so-called MILF when the two began to fornicate. Alcohol and toxic friends encouraged their extra curricular adultery.
> 
> Once Doe's husband learned that his wife had "just kissed" her colleague, she moved out of her home to an apartment and shortly afterwards filed for divorce. Sometimes she slept at OM's home in a trailer park. She told friends and family that OM employed her as a overnight babysitter for his chidren.
> 
> Doe twice sought and received restraining orders forbidding her husband from approaching her. There was no marital history of abuse and she never filed any criminal complaint. She herself took the initiative to interact with her husband in spite of the court order. He was confused by her contradictory behavior.
> 
> Eventually she tearfully requested reconciliation. Her husband was skeptical but wished to believe. After spending some time together she found that she could no longer feel any desire for her him and broke off the reconciliation attempt after two passionless kisses. Doe later confessed to a family member that she had not ended the affair as she once told her soon to be ex husband.


Put up pictures of her and OM with black raccoon eyes.


----------



## LongWalk

harrybrown said:


> You know that kisses would only excite her if she was cheating on her marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> She could not get the thrill, because she was not cheating at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Your life will be so much better, because she would do this again.
> 
> 
> 
> I do hope your kids will be ok.




:iagree:

In fact, she might get excited by Dadof2's kisses. But that will be once she is in a committed relationship and Dadof2 is dating. She will probably not desire gentle, tender kisses but brutal and disrespectul and aggressive moves.


----------



## honcho

dadof2 said:


> Thanks Harry, after talking to a few guys this weekend that were divorced after 20+ years of marriage, I realize that our 5 years of M can be a small thing in the big picture. These guys lost half of their hard earned retirement, etc. We had started building a nice nest egg, but at least I have most of my working life ahead of me to rebuild it.
> 
> I am still dealing with the sting of the rejection. Not as bad as after Dday, but it still seeps in. I know I tried everything I could to help her save her marriage, but in the end its not what she wanted to do. It does hurt me to think that her whole family supports her and sees me as the bad guy. I know everyone says to just live my life and not worry about her anymore, but I would like to see her suffer at some point. I guess when the fantasy world of affairland dies off she will then realize that I wasn't such a bad guy after all. I know her pride will never allow her to admit it though.


As someone else mentioned, deep down she doesn’t believe you’re a bad guy. You’re the bad guy because that is the role she needs for the script running in her head. She feels she can do no wrong and that is the image she must portray. 

When affairland falls apart and they almost always do she wont realize you weren’t such a bad guy she will realize what she gave up. This is the curse they do end up living with. There false pride and ego wont allow them to be humbled and if/when they finally do they have burned too many bridges. 

I got a woman here at work who had the “perfect marriage”. She blew it up chasing the dream of affairland. 10+ years later she is stuck in a horrible marriage and tells everybody that its her punishment for throwing away the best she would ever had. He got remarried, has a couple of children now and a great career. She had about a year of fun, he got a lifetime of being “happy”.


----------



## tom67

honcho said:


> As someone else mentioned, deep down she doesn’t believe you’re a bad guy. You’re the bad guy because that is the role she needs for the script running in her head. She feels she can do no wrong and that is the image she must portray.
> 
> When affairland falls apart and they almost always do she wont realize you weren’t such a bad guy she will realize what she gave up. This is the curse they do end up living with. There false pride and ego wont allow them to be humbled and if/when they finally do they have burned too many bridges.
> 
> I got a woman here at work who had the “perfect marriage”. She blew it up chasing the dream of affairland. 10+ years later she is stuck in a horrible marriage and tells everybody that its her punishment for throwing away the best she would ever had. He got remarried, has a couple of children now and a great career. She had about a year of fun, he got a lifetime of being “happy”.


Honcho thanks for sharing I'm serious something triggered but in a good way.
Oh sign her up here and tell her to pm dof2


----------



## Augusto

dadof2 said:


> Thanks Harry, after talking to a few guys this weekend that were divorced after 20+ years of marriage, I realize that our 5 years of M can be a small thing in the big picture. These guys lost half of their hard earned retirement, etc. We had started building a nice nest egg, but at least I have most of my working life ahead of me to rebuild it.
> 
> I am still dealing with the sting of the rejection. Not as bad as after Dday, but it still seeps in. I know I tried everything I could to help her save her marriage, but in the end its not what she wanted to do. It does hurt me to think that her whole family supports her and sees me as the bad guy. I know everyone says to just live my life and not worry about her anymore, but I would like to see her suffer at some point. I guess when the fantasy world of affairland dies off she will then realize that I wasn't such a bad guy after all. I know her pride will never allow her to admit it though.


She will suffer when you meet someone better.


----------



## bandit.45

Dad do not wait around or hope that she will be hit by the Karma Bus. Sometimes Waywards do pay for their sins while on earth, but just as often they go on to live perfectly happy, prosperous lives with their affair partners. 

Sometimes they are so shielded and sheltered from the ramifications of their bad choices by their enabling family and toxic friends, that they live the remainder of their lives knowing in their heart of hearts they did the right thing by cheating on and leaving their BSs. They move on in bliss, ignorant of the destruction they have left behind in their wake. 

You have to live for you. You need to move forward and live your life as a man of integrity. Be the best dad and the best role model you can be for them. Ignore your ex wife and her life and her crap choices. Live for YOU.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *By DADof2*
> Thanks Harry, after talking to a few guys this weekend that were divorced after 20+ years of marriage, I realize that our 5 years of M can be a small thing in the big picture. These guys lost half of their hard earned retirement, etc. We had started building a nice nest egg, but at least I have most of my working life ahead of me to rebuild it.


In 20 years from now you will realize how important your retirement is and how she cannot take that away from you. Most retirements accumulate MUCH more cash in the last 10-20 years as compared to the first10-20 years.




> By DADof2
> I am still dealing with the sting of the rejection.


That will not go away in the first year but you can reduce it significantly by you keep improving and doing the right thing.
*Eventually she will not be significant at all in your life and you can have a good life without her.* Be patient and endure because she will suffer unless she is a sociopath. There is just no way that a mother who betrays her children’s father is going to go unnoticed. In addition, it is going to affect any man that she marries. There is a reason that second marriages that are based on cheating have a very high divorce rate. When a cheater proves that they are capable of and have committed a very serious violation of trust, commitment, and loyalty, the foundation for which said relationships are built upon, then you have a foundation that is built upon shifting sand.




> By DADof2
> I know I tried everything I could to help her save her marriage, but in the end it’s not what she wanted to do.


This will help your to get completely over her in the years ahead.


----------



## carpenoctem

lordmayhem said:


> Did you marry my ex-wife?
> 
> What you feel is so very common among BSs, and it takes time to heal from that because you never got closure in a sense, you wanted her family to realize her mistake and not support her. But that's not gonna happen. Blood is indeed thicker than water. For years I wanted my ex-wife to suffer at least some kind of consequences for her cheating. I felt I never got any closure.
> 
> Then years later, I realized,* she did suffer consequences for her cheating - she never got to have a full and happy marriage with me! So think about it that way. She gave up a life with a good man - you!* Now some other woman out there is going to reap the benefits of having you to live out their life with.




QFW
(quoted for wisdom)


----------



## dadof2

Hey guys, not much to report on my end. Haven't spoken to STBX in almost a week. A few texts from her about kids, but I haven't initiated anything. I got a new truck last week, and we swapped kids last friday and she saw me drive up in it. She just said "nice wheels" and then we went our separate ways.

I have to see her in about an hour for a parent/teacher conference at our son's school. I am going to ask her to return the garage door opener she has in her car as well as remove her iPad from my account. She has had the iPad since DDay for her work, but it is tied to my iTunes account. I kept it active as a way to track her, but I don't need that anymore. Just a few more things to help detach.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> Hey guys, not much to report on my end. Haven't spoken to STBX in almost a week. A few texts from her about kids, but I haven't initiated anything. I got a new truck last week, and we swapped kids last friday and she saw me drive up in it. She just said "nice wheels" and then we went our separate ways.
> 
> I have to see her in about an hour for a parent/teacher conference at our son's school. I am going to ask her to return the garage door opener she has in her car as well as remove her iPad from my account. She has had the iPad since DDay for her work, but it is tied to my iTunes account. I kept it active as a way to track her, but I don't need that anymore. Just a few more things to help detach.


Good


----------



## Squeakr

you can remove it yourself from within your account if you want Heck even reset it along the way so she gets a surprise.


----------



## dadof2

Squeakr said:


> you can remove it yourself from within your account if you want Heck even reset it along the way so she gets a surprise.


I changed my iTunes password this afternoon. I am going to sign her in on the iPad with her account so my account won't keep popping up for her to sign in. I just want to make sure any apps I download going forward don't also hit the iPad.


----------



## Squeakr

Sign into the cloud management, go to find my device, select her device, right click and select remove device and then select the reset device option. Viola, resets the device and clears your info and doesn't ask for your info anymore. 

I know this as my cheating teacher STBXW experienced the same on her iPhone. She wanted out of my life, out of everything associated with me (which I told her included my iTunes account). I gave her plenty of time to change over and back up, but like everything else she drug her feet and then started to pick a fight one day and complain about my iTunes. I finally said "Fine, you want out, your out!" and did what I said above. She was mad as she lost everything (pics, numbers, etc). Hey I am in software and she was a liability having all of my contacts and connections so I did what I had to (and I was more than fair with the time I have her to make it right, like everything else I have done with this).


----------



## LongWalk

Your STBX probably thinks that she was courageous in sticking the killing blow to your marriage. She is probably trying to get you out of her mind as much as possible. For everything now depends on what she can fill your place with. Is OM doing it for her? Does he make enough money? Does his family please her? His kids? How are the two of them being treated at school?

But as you noted earlier she is dependent on a prescription drug that has a reputation for abuse and side effects. She is going to come undone sooner or later. Drama will come your way, so you must gird yourself to detach. At these school meetings her presence could trigger anxiety and depression.

Are you going to tell your children's teachers about the separation and divorce? They may need to look out for them and let you know if your daughters are exhibiting signs of insecurity.

Will your children eventually attend STBX's school?


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> Your STBX probably thinks that she was courageous in sticking the killing blow to your marriage. She is probably trying to get you out of her mind as much as possible. For everything now depends on what she can fill your place with. Is OM doing it for her? Does he make enough money? Does his family please her? His kids? How are the two of them being treated at school?
> 
> But as you noted earlier she is dependent on a prescription drug that has a reputation for abuse and side effects. She is going to come undone sooner or later. Drama will come your way, so you must gird yourself to detach. At these school meetings her presence could trigger anxiety and depression.
> 
> Are you going to tell your children's teachers about the separation and divorce? They may need to look out for them and let you know if your daughters are exhibiting signs of insecurity.
> 
> Will your children eventually attend STBX's school?


I have 2 children a boy-4 and a girl-2. STBX teaches 9th grade in our town so it will be a while before they get to her. Who knows what her situation will be by then.

I will admit that it was tough seeing her today. I have been in this boat before, quick and quiet meetings, but I guess then I always thought it was temporary. We were both civil and very quiet. She was nice and I got the items back from her I requested and we parted ways. I handled it well but now that I'm home and the house is quiet all those feelings of depression are creeping back in. I have the kids tonight and that helped keep me distracted for a while.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> I have been in this boat before, quick and quiet meetings, but I guess then *I always thought it was temporary*.


Very telling. And thought provoking. You sabotaged the success you really wanted.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

I think you're doing fine, and the feelings you're having are to be expected. This will take a LONG TIME to heal from. Don't make yourself feel any worse than you have to. 

-10th Engineer Harrison.


----------



## LongWalk

Reading about adderall addiction is sobering. Here is one woman's account.

Googling adderall + infidelity brings up a lot of hits. I did not see anything scientifically linking adderall to promiscuity, but clearly the worry that people's sexual behavior changed because of drugs had people searching for answers.



> I just broke up with my boyfriend of 2 years because of Adderall. I became so irritable all the time and was upset about everything that happened. I blamed him for so much and was not able to turn off my driven mind because of adderall. I would mull over everything and then *try to escape by exercising all the time*. The reality was, the adderall is what made me overfocused and obsessed with things. I sought activities to try to escape into calm but nothing could really pull me back from the drugs effects. The drug works, but at a huge cost a cost of my real self and my emotional stability. I finally told my boyfriend that the reason we broke up was because of the drug. I almost let him walk away without revealing the truth about my addiction to it, that is HOW ADDICTED I WAS. But I overcame it and told him the truth. *Adderal increases dopamine and it is hard to find real things in life, like people who can give an equal amount of dopamine*, but he was and is worth it. He might be lost forever, and I hope not, but I have no right to make him be with me now that I am off it. I wish I never took the drug and hope no one else ever has to experience this. Please, stay away from the drug and try to seek exercise and modify your environment if you need to focus. If you have to have the drug to get something in life that you think you want. Really think about if you want it and if you need it. There is a difference and being true to your self, even if that means working in a slightly lower paying job, will make you happier in the long run. I promise and I hope my experience can help others. *I stopped taking the adderall and my tip is to destroy all of the pills and then drink coffee each day and workout a lot. Do intense cardio as it will help increase the neurotransmitters that your brain needs*. It will be a challenge, but after a few days it will be amazing to see how much better you look and feel. I finally feel connected to my emotions and can breathe into my heart and life now. I send my best energy to you all and hope for freedom any attachment to this substance.


Source There are many other sad stories about losing control.

So Dadof2, adderall addiction could be a factor in your wife's inability to connect with you. Furthermore, the search for dopamine through exercise or sex would make sense. Could it be that her life with you could not provide the stimulations she craved?

I am not suggesting that she is not responsible for cheating but it could be a factor.

You have wanted to protect her from this addiction. Giving up responsibility for her wellbeing has been hard for you. If adderall abuse is as dangerous as these anecdotal accounts, well you can look forward to problems in the future.

Did you ever confront her about her addiction?

Was that a cause of conflict between you?

Do you trust her with your son and daughter?

Did you ever confront the physician who is prescribing this drug to her?

Do you know how much her dosage has increased?

What does her family know about this?

If you were to ask your STBX if she is able to feel herself, to feel her normal emotions towards you, what do you think she would say?

If she did break it off with OM, this could also be a reason. Even that relationship was not exciting enough, perhaps.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Reading about adderall addiction is sobering. Here is one woman's account.
> 
> Googling adderall + infidelity brings up a lot of hits. I did not see anything scientifically linking adderall to promiscuity, but clearly the worry that people's sexual behavior changed because of drugs had people searching for answers.
> 
> 
> 
> Source There are many other sad stories about losing control.
> 
> So Dadof2, adderall addiction could be a factor in your wife's inability to connect with you. Furthermore, the search for dopamine through exercise or sex would make sense. Could it be that her life with you could not provide the stimulations she craved?
> 
> I am not suggesting that she is not responsible for cheating but it could be a factor.
> 
> You have wanted to protect her from this addiction. Giving up responsibility for her wellbeing has been hard for you. If adderall abuse is as dangerous as these anecdotal accounts, well you can look forward to problems in the future.
> 
> Did you ever confront her about her addiction?
> 
> Was that a cause of conflict between you?
> 
> Do you trust her with your son and daughter?
> 
> Did you ever confront the physician who is prescribing this drug to her?
> 
> Do you know how much her dosage has increased?
> 
> What does her family know about this?


That with the xanax.
A constant up/down everyday with the alcohol to boot a depressant.


----------



## happyman64

LongWalk

No matter what conversation Dof2 tries to have with his WW regarding her prescription addiction she will label him and the conversation as "controlling".

He needs to keep on detaching from her. Focus on himself and the kids.

Get his head and heart in the right place and find himself a new woman.

So that one day soon he picks up his kids and his new GF is sitting in the front seat.

Good move with the truck Dof2.

Now go get a dog or a drumset to fill that house up with some noise. 

And please install the dashcam the day your new GF is in the front set for the 1st pickup. Many of us would like to see her face and your grin.

That is what I would call detachment. Take as much time as you need. 

Leave your STBX to her own vices and wrestling with her issues.


Go be happy.

HM


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> LongWalk
> 
> No matter what conversation Dof2 tries to have with his WW regarding her prescription addiction she will label him and the conversation as "controlling".
> 
> He needs to keep on detaching from her. Focus on himself and the kids.
> 
> Get his head and heart in the right place and find himself a new woman.
> 
> So that one day soon he picks up his kids and his new GF is sitting in the front seat.
> 
> Good move with the truck Dof2.
> 
> Now go get a dog or a drumset to fill that house up with some noise.
> 
> And please install the dashcam the day your new GF is in the front set for the 1st pickup. Many of us would like to see her face and your grin.
> 
> That is what I would call detachment. Take as much time as you need.
> 
> Leave your STBX to her own vices and wrestling with her issues.
> 
> 
> Go be happy.
> 
> HM


HM totally agree.
However if he finds out she gets into 7 accidents in 2 months like Blacksmith's wife it's time to set up an emergency hearing including a psych evaluation.
I hope he NEVER has to do this but for now mouth shut eyes open.
Damn Weightlifter.


----------



## happyman64

I agree. But maybe she is a good mom. And she might just be a good functioning prescription addict.

Just not a good functioning prescription wife.

Only Dof2 can judge her when it comes to the kids.

And no matter what she is selfish. Drugs or no drugs she is plain selfish.


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> I agree. But maybe she is a good mom. And she might just be a good functioning prescription addict.
> 
> Just not a good functioning prescription wife.
> 
> Only Dof2 can judge her when it comes to the kids.
> 
> And no matter what she is selfish. Drugs or no drugs she is plain selfish.


Oh she is absolutely the entitled princess and her sister saw through her sh!t.

But he has to stay vigilant and observe her at the drop offs plus make the kids comfortable if they want to talk about mom.
We don't know obviously but if she does this c0cktail 3 to 5 times a week it will be noticed.
It's sad.


----------



## tom67

What's also sad is when you have a song going on in your mind and don't know why

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSwQSvGT6Os

Flashback I guess:scratchhead:


----------



## honcho

"adderall addiction could be a factor in your wife's inability to connect with you"

This will ultimately be a factor in her inability to connect with anyone and will play a factor in her spiral downward. Depending on the true severity of her problem she will most likely use it as an excuse for a great many things in the future and never own the responsibility that is was her selfish choice.


----------



## tom67

honcho said:


> "adderall addiction could be a factor in your wife's inability to connect with you"
> 
> This will ultimately be a factor in her inability to connect with anyone and will play a factor in her spiral downward. Depending on the true severity of her problem she will most likely use it as an excuse for a great many things in the future and never own the responsibility that is was her selfish choice.


:iagree:
We can all agree...
Run Forest run.


----------



## azteca1986

happyman64 said:


> He needs to keep on detaching from her. Focus on himself and the kids.
> 
> Get his head and heart in the right place and find himself a new woman.
> 
> So that one day soon he picks up his kids and his new GF is sitting in the front seat.
> 
> Good move with the truck Dof2.
> 
> Now go get a dog or a drumset to fill that house up with some noise.
> 
> And please install the dashcam the day your new GF is in the front set for the 1st pickup. Many of us would like to see her face and your grin.
> 
> That is what I would call detachment. Take as much time as you need.
> 
> Leave your STBX to her own vices and wrestling with her issues.
> 
> 
> Go be happy.
> 
> HM


Totally agree with happy man. Way too much focus on the stbx. One thing I have noticed here is how many (stb)divorced dad's throw themselves with gusto into part-time parenthood. They put us full-time dads to shame. In my own case, I honestly had to re-evaluate my own interactions with my son when I looked at what great dad's we have here.

Take the focus off stbx. Throw yourself into to being the best dad your kids can have. Dad's are hugely important for their children after say the age of three. As I tell my wife, he may love you dearly, but he wants to _be_ me 

No one, not unstable mother's or which ever man will drift in and out of their lives can ever break that bond. 

Focus on yourself and your kids.


----------



## LongWalk

I did not mean to suggest that concentrating on the addiction as a factor changes Dadof2's need to detach and move on. I do think her addiction will try him further in the future.


----------



## azteca1986

LongWalk said:


> I did not mean to suggest that concentrating on the addiction as a factor changes Dadof2's need to detach and move on. I do think her addiction will try him further in the future.


We all know you took the trouble to research the addiction angle to help dadof2 answer the "Why?".

I should have been more careful in my last post. Apologies.


----------



## LongWalk

No offense taken. The amphetamine addiction makes her behavior more comprehensible. Dadof2 may need to bring this up in IC.

Does he feel guilty that he let the addiction go on so long?

Does he regret not challenging her, setting down an ultimatum: treatment or divorce.

Heroin addicts are not interested in sex but they may have sex to pay for their habit.

Meth is well known for destroying female modesty.

Dadof2's stbx may even half realize that she is allowing this drug to take over her life.

GP and Ms GP made it back from infidelity and drug addiction. I don't know how BrokenShadow is doing. Blacksmith's ex went down the tubes. Was FlyFishDoc's ex on drugs?

I don't see much room for optimism in Dadof2's situation but rather the need to be prepared for an escalation of erratic conduct.


----------



## dadof2

Thanks for all of the replies. I had a rough night last night, I guess all the emotions coming back from seeing her again. I thought I was past all of that, but it does seem that I bounce back quicker.

I guess I will never understand what she is doing, and I don't know how much the adderall is affecting it. I do know its not healthy but she functions fine and other than losing weight her family doesn't notice any problems, so I won't have much luck bringing up any concerns to them.

I am trying to put myself out there again on the social scene. I work in the construction industry so I am around men all day, not many ladies here at the office. I need something to get my mind off of all this. I have a cousin who is divorced who works with a girl who is interested, but she's not exactly what I'm looking for. Who knows maybe a good slump buster will get me back on track! :rofl:


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



dadof2 said:


> I guess I will never understand what she is doing, and I don't know how much the adderall is affecting it. I do know its not healthy but she functions fine and other than losing weight her family doesn't notice any problems, so I won't have much luck bringing up any concerns to them.


2x4. 

This is not your freaking job anymore dude. Quite frankly it should never have been your job when you were married to her. Stop trying to fix her. 

Figure out your need compulsively fix things, and get it straight before you run into somebody of the opposite sex that matters.


----------



## turnera

Find your people - Meetup

You go DO things and meet other single people.


----------



## tom67

turnera said:


> Find your people - Meetup
> 
> You go DO things and meet other single people.


:iagree:
Time to go out of your "comfort" zone and mingle.


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for all of the replies. I had a rough night last night, I guess all the emotions coming back from seeing her again. I thought I was past all of that, but it does seem that I bounce back quicker.
> 
> I guess I will never understand what she is doing, and I don't know how much the adderall is affecting it. I do know its not healthy but she functions fine and other than losing weight her family doesn't notice any problems, so I won't have much luck bringing up any concerns to them.
> 
> I am trying to put myself out there again on the social scene. I work in the construction industry so I am around men all day, not many ladies here at the office. I need something to get my mind off of all this. I have a cousin who is divorced who works with a girl who is interested, but she's not exactly what I'm looking for. Who knows maybe a good slump buster will get me back on track! :rofl:


The pain is normal. You've lost a limb, and your body and mind are adjusting. You will come out better on the other end Dad. 

It's going to take a good three to four years to heal. That might go quicker with a few girlfriends thrown into the mix. I'm in construction too, and I know how tired you are when you get home. Going out and dating are the last things on your mind when you drag yourself through the front door each evening. But you have to force yourself to get out there and be social. Even if it's just guys for a while. Don't be alone. Get around people.


----------



## IIJokerII

bandit.45 said:


> The pain is normal. You've lost a limb, and your body and mind are adjusting. You will come out better on the other end Dad.
> 
> It's going to take a good three to four years to heal. That might go quicker with a few girlfriends thrown into the mix. I'm in construction too, and I know how tired you are when you get home. Going out and dating are the last things on your mind when you drag yourself through the front door each evening. But you have to force yourself to get out there and be social. Even if it's just guys for a while. Don't be alone. Get around people.


Drag is the most accurate wording, and it probably doesn't help either that his wife is enjoying life at the moment too, however doped up she may be.


----------



## LongWalk

dadof2 said:


> I guess I will never understand what she is doing, and I don't know how much the adderall is affecting it. I do know its not healthy but *she functions fine* and other than losing weight her family doesn't notice any problems, so I won't have much luck bringing up any concerns to them.


:scratchhead:

She is not functioning well at all. Just the opposite. She has been torn between covering up dysfunctional behavior by fleeing home and the RO. You were trying to control her? Come on she was getting drunk with toxic friends, a life style that was incompatible with her self image of responsible mother.

When you 180'd her. She felt loss from your absence. Later she broke down at the idea of her normal life evaporating and rushed forward to reconcile. The discovery that she could not find eros to support her desire for her family really points to the addiction more than OM.

If she were forced to chose between OM making love to her and the adderall, she would likely choose the amphetamine. In fact, as OM loses his novelty she will not get the increased sense of self-awareness and made her feel alive during explosive phase of the affair. This why you once wrote that you fear she will go through men. She cannot find the rush in stability.

I agree completely with the other posters that you cannot make fixing her your goal or responsibility. You have to let go and go forward with your life. You can, however, let her sister know that the addiction should be a major concern to her family.

To socialize have you considered meetup.com?


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> She is not functioning well at all. Just the opposite. She has been torn between covering up dysfunctional behavior by fleeing home and the RO. You were trying to control her? Come on she was getting drunk with toxic friends, a life style that was incompatible with her self image of responsible mother.
> 
> When you 180'd her. She felt loss from your absence. Later she broke down at the idea of her normal life evaporating and rush forward to reconcile. The discovery that she could not find eros to support her desire for her family really points to the addiction more than OM.
> 
> If she were forced to chose between OM making love to her and the adderall, she would likely choose the amphetamine. In fact, as OM loses his novelty she will not get the increased sense of self-awareness and made her feel alive during explosive phase of the affair. This why you once wrote that you fear she will go through men. She cannot find the rush in stability.
> 
> I agree completely with the other posters that you cannot make fixing her your goal or responsibility. You have to let go and go forward with your life. You can, however, let her sister know that the addiction should be a major concern to her family.
> 
> To socialize have you considered meetup.com?


LW dead on chasing the butterflies in a relationship same thing as an addict chasing the last high.
That will be her road to travel.


----------



## Augusto

dadof2 said:


> Hey guys, not much to report on my end. Haven't spoken to STBX in almost a week. A few texts from her about kids, but I haven't initiated anything. I got a new truck last week, and we swapped kids last friday and she saw me drive up in it. She just said "nice wheels" and then we went our separate ways.
> 
> I have to see her in about an hour for a parent/teacher conference at our son's school. I am going to ask her to return the garage door opener she has in her car as well as remove her iPad from my account. She has had the iPad since DDay for her work, but it is tied to my iTunes account. I kept it active as a way to track her, but I don't need that anymore. Just a few more things to help detach.


Next time you show up to swap kids in your new wheels, find some super hot(and younger) chick to pick up the kids with. Put it in her head on who you are banging!!!!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Never worked with me... Sometimes its a waste of energy.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife separated for "space" now OM has been discovered*



Blossom Leigh said:


> Never worked with me... Sometimes its a waste of energy.


But you have integrity and character. Do2's STBX? Not so much. 

All except that Bama crap...


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2 does not need to prove anything to his STBX. She will be back hassling him sooner or later. Count on it.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

farsidejunky said:


> But you have integrity and character. Do2's STBX? Not so much.
> 
> All except that Bama crap...



Haha! Except we are OWNING the Aggies today... Spankin dat a$$

ROLL TIDE BABY!!

Thanks for the compliment by the way... Appreciated.


----------



## just got it 55

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for all of the replies. I had a rough night last night, I guess all the emotions coming back from seeing her again. I thought I was past all of that, but it does seem that I bounce back quicker.
> 
> I guess I will never understand what she is doing, and I don't know how much the adderall is affecting it. I do know its not healthy but she functions fine and other than losing weight her family doesn't notice any problems, so I won't have much luck bringing up any concerns to them.
> 
> I am trying to put myself out there again on the social scene. I work in the construction industry so I am around men all day, not many ladies here at the office. I need something to get my mind off of all this. I have a cousin who is divorced who works with a girl who is interested, but she's not exactly what I'm looking for. Who knows maybe a good slump buster will get me back on track! :rofl:


Well dad it can't hurt can it

55


----------



## tom67

just got it 55 said:


> Well dad it can't hurt can it
> 
> 55


Have to start somewhere.


----------



## honcho

LongWalk said:


> Dadof2 does not need to prove anything to his STBX. She will be back hassling him sooner or later. Count on it.


:iagree: 
LW is correct she just wont go quietly into the night.


----------



## tom67

honcho said:


> :iagree:
> LW is correct she just wont go quietly into the night.


:iagree::iagree:
honcho how you are still sane is beyond me.
Dadof2 read what honcho has gone through and consider yourself lucky.
Go on a date already.


----------



## lordmayhem

dadof2 said:


> I am trying to put myself out there again on the social scene. I work in the construction industry so I am around men all day, not many ladies here at the office. I need something to get my mind off of all this. I have a cousin who is divorced who works with a girl who is interested, but she's not exactly what I'm looking for. Who knows maybe a good slump buster will get me back on track! :rofl:


Get a good quality, and good fitting leather jacket, seriously. Update your wardrobe when you can.


----------



## helolover

lordmayhem said:


> Get a good quality, and good fitting leather jacket, seriously. Update your wardrobe when you can.


Concur. Dress it up a bit when appropriate. How you look on the outside is a projection of how you feel on the inside. If you bum around in sweats and Ts, it maybe comfortable, but you aren't going to turn any heads. 

Even if you're wearing jeans, don a blazer. Even if you're wearing a T. Wear decent shoes. 

Dress age appropriately. It depends on the area where you live and where you go. Jeans and blazer will get your a$$ kicked in the local biker bar. Be smart. 

Start going out for an evening. Dressed nicely. Drive around, go see a movie by yourself. Who cares. Don't tell your wife where you are going. "I have plans tonight - see you in a bit."

HL


----------



## dadof2

Thanks for the advice. Helo- I have read some of your comments in other people's threads, especially the one started recently about the guy with 3 kids who just found out about his wife's affair. I am 6 months out from DDay, but sometimes I find myself having the same thoughts as I did the first weeks right after I found out. They aren't as frequent, but I still have bad days. Reading your post to him really hit home to me again, it gave me some good motivation to stay positive. Right now I just feel hopeless for the future. I had the life I wanted and it was taken away from me. Its hard to see a life with someone else right now, not that I want STBX, just that who knows what's out there for me, especially with me having 2 small kids.

I went out of town this past weekend, it was homecoming at my old college so I went back and saw a lot of old friends. We all went out after the football game and I was able to close the deal with a divorced friend of a friend. I have to say it was nice to have a girl actually make me feel good. She wasn't anything special, but we were both looking for the same thing and we found it several times, lol! She works with a friend of mine's wife and he texted me this morning saying that she was telling the girls at work that she hasn't been f*cked like that in a long time. 

I must admit that made me feel good. Gotta start getting back in the game! I have an appointment with my IC today, she has been on vacation for 2 weeks, so it will be nice to talk to her again. Lately I have been talking almost the whole hour without her saying anything, but its nice to just vent sometimes. I appreciate all of your advice and encouragement more than y'all can possibly know. I hope to keep updating the thread as new info comes along. I know the rollercoaster ride isn't over so I just try to enjoy the good days and get through the bad ones.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for the advice. Helo- I have read some of your comments in other people's threads, especially the one started recently about the guy with 3 kids who just found out about his wife's affair. I am 6 months out from DDay, but sometimes I find myself having the same thoughts as I did the first weeks right after I found out. They aren't as frequent, but I still have bad days. Reading your post to him really hit home to me again, it gave me some good motivation to stay positive. Right now I just feel hopeless for the future. I had the life I wanted and it was taken away from me. Its hard to see a life with someone else right now, not that I want STBX, just that who knows what's out there for me, especially with me having 2 small kids.
> 
> I went out of town this past weekend, it was homecoming at my old college so I went back and saw a lot of old friends. We all went out after the football game and I was able to close the deal with a divorced friend of a friend. I have to say it was nice to have a girl actually make me feel good. She wasn't anything special, but we were both looking for the same thing and we found it several times, lol! She works with a friend of mine's wife and he texted me this morning saying that she was telling the girls at work that she hasn't been f*cked like that in a long time.
> 
> I must admit that made me feel good. Gotta start getting back in the game! I have an appointment with my IC today, she has been on vacation for 2 weeks, so it will be nice to talk to her again. Lately I have been talking almost the whole hour without her saying anything, but its nice to just vent sometimes. I appreciate all of your advice and encouragement more than y'all can possibly know. I hope to keep updating the thread as new info comes along. I know the rollercoaster ride isn't over so I just try to enjoy the good days and get through the bad ones.


Gigity:smthumbup:


----------



## bandit.45

It's good to hear you went out and got some. 

See? You've got game, and apparently she was well pleased so all your parts are working right. I see good things happening for you in the near future.


----------



## tryingpatience

dadof2 said:


> Its hard to see a life with someone else right now, not that I want STBX, just that who knows what's out there for me, especially with me having 2 small kids.


The kind of person that you are looking for exists out there. There are people out there who can love your kids unconditionally the way you do. I've seen it. Also didn't believe it at first. But I've met woman who love the fact that I'm a single dad. When they know that you have everything handled with your ex, that you have your sh*t together (and trust me they'll know) it makes you irresistible :smthumbup: 

Keep it up!


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Dadof2
> 
> I went out of town this past weekend, it was homecoming at my old college so I went back and saw a lot of old friends. We all went out after the football game and I was able to close the deal with a divorced friend of a friend. I have to say it was nice to have a girl actually make me feel good. She wasn't anything special, but we were both looking for the same thing and we found it several times, lol! She works with a friend of mine's wife and he texted me this morning saying that she was telling the girls at work that she hasn't been f*cked like that in a long time.



WOW, you really have it together and so much control. If I did not have any for 6 months I would have shot my rocks off when she started pulling down her panties!!!! With me she would not have said

“…texted me this morning saying that she was telling the girls at work that she hasn't been f*cked like that in a long time. :rofl:


----------



## LongWalk

Good job socializing. Keep it up and before too long gossip will get back to your STBX, who will indignantly feel that you are cheating on her. Sounds crazy but she is just the sort who will not be objective.

Maybe you now have a FWB.


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Good job socializing. Keep it up and before too long gossip will get back to your STBX, who will indignantly feel that you are cheating on her. Sounds crazy but she is just the sort who will not be objective.
> 
> Maybe you now have a FWB.


Oh I think she will call him again...along with the other ladies at her office.


----------



## happyman64

LongWalk said:


> Good job socializing. *Keep it up* and before *too long* gossip will get back to your STBX, who will indignantly feel that you are cheating on her. Sounds crazy but she is just the sort who will not be objective.
> 
> Maybe you now have a FWB.


Aren't you full of the double entendre's Long Walk! 

Way to go Dof2. That is the key to success. Putting yourself out there. And sometimes putting your [email protected]!s out there too! 

HM


----------



## just got it 55

tom67 said:


> Oh I think she will call him again...along with the other ladies at her office.


Yup dad the word gets around

Go have as much fun as you can

55


----------



## thatbpguy

tryingpatience said:


> Keep it up!


He's certainly trying to.


----------



## BWBill

_ I have to say it was nice to have a girl actually make me feel good._

Those are the only kind of women you should be with.


----------



## just got it 55

BWBill said:


> _ I have to say it was nice to have a girl actually make me feel good._
> 
> Those are the only kind of women you should be with.


And you only need one of them

55


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

just got it 55 said:


> Yup dad the word gets around
> 
> Go have as much fun as you can
> 
> 55


Yep, why beat it when you can bury it?:lol:

10th Engineer Harrison


----------



## dadof2

10th Engineer Harrison said:


> Yep, why beat it when you can bury it?:lol:
> 
> 10th Engineer Harrison


Man I love that quote!! I will definitely be using that in the future!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> Man I love that quote!! I will definitely be using that in the future!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The Quagmire Song no really.avi - YouTube

Just had to.


----------



## warlock07

dadof2

I Just Had Sex (feat. Akon) - YouTube


----------



## warlock07




----------



## honcho

tom67 said:


> :iagree::iagree:
> honcho how you are still sane is beyond me.
> Dadof2 read what honcho has gone through and consider yourself lucky.
> Go on a date already.


I never claimed to be sane :rofl:

dadof2 is luckier than I am, at least weekend he was :lol:


----------



## tom67

honcho said:


> I never claimed to be sane :rofl:
> 
> dadof2 is luckier than I am, at least weekend he was :lol:


Stop it honcho
Caddyshack - Don't Sell Yourself Short Judge - HD - YouTube


----------



## tom67

Dadof2 read what happened strike that, what is still happening to honcho.


----------



## clipclop2

Hey guys, Dad had sex, not you!


----------



## warlock07

Your dad had sex?


----------



## tom67

clipclop2 said:


> Hey guys, Dad had sex, not you!


Clip it's nice to see him happy come on.
Party p0oper.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

The guy talk has been cracking me up. . Fun to watch it in real time. :lol:


----------



## just got it 55

dadof2 said:


> Man I love that *quote*!! I will definitely be *using* that in the future!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


actions not words dad

55


----------



## clipclop2

But guys are acting like they had sex with how giddy they are getting. From the point of view of a woman out all seems very immature. Bizarre. He went out with someone he said wasnt anything special (ouch) and is bragging on it and then gets high fived. It is like high school.

I'm glad he is happy but her text suggests she is more interested than he is regardless of what he thought he understood from her. She will want to see him again. He is just killing time. 

There is a bigger picture her that the locker room is ignoring.


----------



## just got it 55

Clip don't you think a small measure of levity is in order or acceptable given what dad has endured ?

jezz lighten up will yah

55


----------



## dadof2

just got it 55 said:


> Clip don't you think a small measure of levity is in order or acceptable given what dad has endured ?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

just got it 55 said:


> Clip don't you think a small measure of levity is in order or acceptable given what dad has endured ?
> 
> jezz lighten up will yah
> 
> 55


This is what was making me smile was just the surrounding of Dadof2 with brotherly support, male style. Was fascinating to watch regardless of maturity. I believe the intent was from a place of love. Cheering on the wounded man.


----------



## just got it 55

Blossom Leigh said:


> This is what was making me smile was just the surrounding of Dadof2 with brotherly support, male style. Was fascinating to watch regardless of maturity. I believe the intent was from a place of love. Cheering on the wounded man.


Exactly right BL

55


----------



## IIJokerII

clipclop2 said:


> But guys are acting like they had sex with how giddy they are getting. From the point of view of a woman out all seems very immature. Bizarre. He went out with someone he said wasnt anything special (ouch) and is bragging on it and then gets high fived. It is like high school.
> 
> I'm glad he is happy but her text suggests she is more interested than he is regardless of what he thought he understood from her. She will want to see him again. He is just killing time.
> 
> There is a bigger picture her that the locker room is ignoring.


I agree with you for most points here. Although the most efficient way to heal a mans heart from losing a spouse or GF in the manner is by getting laid it will invite a lot of problems if not manages correctly. This new woman is providing a filler to that emotional hole right now (God, I have so many jokes for that statement, please people, lets keep it real) that he is feeling, also known as a rebound relationship and how many of those work out. 

He has an obligation to inform her before things get serious and he relents to her taking it to the next level push how he really feels, and given that he is more than likely still emotionally vulnerable invites this scenario like a magnet to a fridge.

What Dadof2 can take from this is that he now knows he can and does have the ability to move on at a physical level so the hard part is over in terms of drawing interest from another woman for sex and intimacy and in time a relationship can be built off of this. But from past experience from being on both sides of the fence concerning the rebound relationship it will end with a whimper as one, or both, of you will discover that whatever you have was simply not real to begin with.

For now, although I know it must've felt wonderful to feel human again, desired and all the fun stuff, Dad, You need to work on self preservation and rebuild before you start another relationship. Believe it or not you will be better in the long run for it. You also owe it to yourself to be honest with this woman since you know all too well what the fallout of a dishonest partner can be like.


----------



## warlock07

It is your fault dadof2!!


----------



## clipclop2

That's not ban worthy. But crazier things have happened.


----------



## dadof2

I appreciate all of the perspective Clip, but I think we are due a little fun every now and then right?!? We are just enjoying the moment, Lord knows I haven't had much to enjoy lately.

The sense of camaraderie her is great, I do appreciate all of the virtual "high fives!!"


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

dadof2 said:


> I appreciate all of the perspective Clip, but I think we are due a little fun every now and then right?!? We are just enjoying the moment, Lord knows I haven't had much to enjoy lately.
> 
> The sense of camaraderie her is great, I do appreciate all of the virtual "high fives!!"


Oh boy dadof2, now you've done it.

I sense that "The Queen" again soon shall be ascending from her golden throne to whack us over the snouts with a rolled up parchment.

Oh, we the rustic rubes are in such need of some eminent guidance.

I see no problem in gettin' a little sumpin' sumpin'. Heck, it sounds like you wern't even looking for, or trying to get anything and BAM! She was on you like a bunny in a carrot patch.


----------



## clipclop2

I'm gonna whack you with a rolled up midget Grounpounder. At least Dad was pounding something with a pulse!


----------



## tom67

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Oh boy dadof2, now you've done it.
> 
> I sense that "The Queen" again soon shall be ascending from her golden throne to whack us over the snouts with a rolled up parchment.
> 
> Oh, we the rustic rubes are in such need of some eminent guidance.
> 
> I see no problem in gettin' a little sumpin' sumpin'. Heck, it sounds like you wern't even looking for, or trying to get anything and BAM! She was on you like a bunny in a carrot patch.


Hey if it helps him heal he should do it once a week.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

clipclop2 said:


> I'm gonna whack you with a rolled up midget Grounpounder. At least Dad was pounding something with a pulse!


O.K, um... What?

If your reply was because of my "Queen" comment, I was not reffering to you. But I'm sure that she'll be along soon, to set us all straight...

BTW, my "GROUNDPOUNDER" handle is a nickname for a type of racecar in the North East. And remamber, RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR.


----------



## clipclop2

Like Bolton and Notlob.


----------



## tom67

clipclop2 said:


> Like Bolton and Notlob.


Oh Gawd elevator music

Michael Bolton - How Am I Supposed To Live Without You - YouTube


Okay I'll ban myself.


----------



## Nucking Futs

tom67 said:


> Oh Gawd elevator music
> 
> Michael Bolton - How Am I Supposed To Live Without You - YouTube
> 
> 
> Okay I'll ban myself.


Quick, listen to this! It'll take that Bolton out of your head!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc2g9lbi4TQ


----------



## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> Quick, listen to this! It'll take that Bolton out of your head!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc2g9lbi4TQ


I still know enough Spanish to read that
That was more worser than mine.


----------



## azteca1986

Blossom Leigh said:


> This is what was making me smile was just the surrounding of Dadof2 with brotherly support, male style. Was fascinating to watch regardless of maturity. I believe the intent was from a place of love. Cheering on the wounded man.


Exactly right. Besides, Dadof2's post indicated that the result of the weekend were TWO happy people.


----------



## weightlifter

tom67 said:


> Oh Gawd elevator music
> 
> Michael Bolton - How Am I Supposed To Live Without You - YouTube
> 
> 
> Okay I'll ban myself.


Not ban worthy.

Execution worthy.

Im thinking something 1st century Roman.


----------



## clipclop2

That was a Month Python reference. Sorry for the confusion with Michael B.


----------



## helolover

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for the advice. Helo- I have read some of your comments in other people's threads, especially the one started recently about the guy with 3 kids who just found out about his wife's affair. I am 6 months out from DDay, but sometimes I find myself having the same thoughts as I did the first weeks right after I found out. They aren't as frequent, but I still have bad days. Reading your post to him really hit home to me again, it gave me some good motivation to stay positive. Right now I just feel hopeless for the future. I had the life I wanted and it was taken away from me. Its hard to see a life with someone else right now, not that I want STBX, just that who knows what's out there for me, especially with me having 2 small kids.
> 
> I went out of town this past weekend, it was homecoming at my old college so I went back and saw a lot of old friends. We all went out after the football game and I was able to close the deal with a divorced friend of a friend. I have to say it was nice to have a girl actually make me feel good. She wasn't anything special, but we were both looking for the same thing and we found it several times, lol! She works with a friend of mine's wife and he texted me this morning saying that she was telling the girls at work that she hasn't been f*cked like that in a long time.
> 
> I must admit that made me feel good. Gotta start getting back in the game! I have an appointment with my IC today, she has been on vacation for 2 weeks, so it will be nice to talk to her again. Lately I have been talking almost the whole hour without her saying anything, but its nice to just vent sometimes. I appreciate all of your advice and encouragement more than y'all can possibly know. I hope to keep updating the thread as new info comes along. I know the rollercoaster ride isn't over so I just try to enjoy the good days and get through the bad ones.


Welcome back to the land of the fvcking. It's a great place to be.

As always, I have a cautionary note: Date around. Don't get "oneitis" with your new "friend." Lots more like her out there. Waiting for you.


----------



## LongWalk

Yea, the rebound relationship can turn into trouble if too much is invested before you are ready. If you like this gal, you can date her and be friends.


----------



## IIJokerII

LongWalk said:


> If you like this gal, you can date her and be friends.


No he can't, between his emotional vulnerability and the tenderness of the wounds he still has from his wife's actions he will sooner or later be insidiously dragged into a relationship.

We've also heard the "just friends" bit for years from countless people, just because he is single doesn't mean the end result will be different. For the most part we stop making friends with the opposite sex after a certain age, the other are grandfathered in. He, or she, or both will eventually be hurt in some manner, it's only a matter of time.


----------



## LongWalk

So insidious that he no longer posts, haha.


----------



## dadof2

I am not getting ahead of myself here. This girl was pretty much a ONS. We both knew what we were getting when I got in her car Saturday night. I don't think she has any expectations of a relationship. We live 2 hours apart and both have our own lives.

I have my eyes on a girl here locally that I would like to ask out at some point but I want to make sure I'm ready so I don't mess it up by starting too soon.


----------



## tom67

We need pictures
Just kidding is it FB girl?


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> I am not getting ahead of myself here. This girl was pretty much a ONS. We both knew what we were getting when I got in her car Saturday night. I don't think she has any expectations of a relationship. We live 2 hours apart and both have our own lives.
> 
> I have my eyes on a girl here locally that I would like to ask out at some point but I want to make sure I'm ready so I don't mess it up by starting too soon.


Player. You have more game than you think.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Player. You have more game than you think.


:iagree:
:smthumbup:


----------



## dadof2

Not much new to report this week. Very little contact with STBX, only texting. She sends me a text just about every day on something concerning kids. I wait a minimum of an hour before I respond, sometimes not even responding at all.

My lawyer is supposed to be in touch with hers concerning our community property settlement. My side worked up a pretty good proposal, fair but a little slanted towards me. Hopefully we hung enough red meat out there that she will take it and not want to start fighting over every little item.

Still working on detaching, its a very tough road! Some days are great and then some days I sink back into the "why me" and mind movies routine. I just keep going back to the fact that she is skating around any and all consequences and I am left to try to put my life back together. Not fun...


----------



## IIJokerII

dadof2 said:


> Not much new to report this week. Very little contact with STBX, only texting. She sends me a text just about every day on something concerning kids. I wait a minimum of an hour before I respond, sometimes not even responding at all.
> 
> My lawyer is supposed to be in touch with hers concerning our community property settlement. My side worked up a pretty good proposal, fair but a little slanted towards me. Hopefully we hung enough red meat out there that she will take it and not want to start fighting over every little item.
> 
> Still working on detaching, its a very tough road! Some days are great and then some days I sink back into the "why me" and mind movies routine. I just keep going back to the fact that she is skating around any and all consequences and I am left to try to put my life back together. Not fun...


Respond to her texts even less, she is still trying to residually fish, swat it away like you would a fly. A Very annoying and aggravating fly!!!!


----------



## bandit.45

It will get better day by day. Just hang in there Dad. 

In six months, I guarantee you will be looking at her with new eyes. She will be half as pretty as your remember and three times as pathetic and annoying.


----------



## LongWalk

The texts she sends are all about her need to be desired by you. Both of you have been without your kids for 50% of the time. It's not like you now are desperate to know whether they are still on the planet. You aren't with them when she has them and her texts don't put you in their proximity.

She may also feel that sending you texts shows how nice she is to you, outside of being a cheater. That's just an unpleasant detail to her while she figures out her life. Hard to think straight on drugs.

The CP settlement is big in her mind. She is cashing in her chips. She has to take them to another table. Maybe she wants to pool them with the guy in the trailer, maybe not.

Maybe OM is better for your kids than string of STRs.

How's the running going?

Hear anything from her sister?


----------



## BWBill

_ I just keep going back to the fact that she is skating around any and all consequences . . ._

Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell. 

Your job is ensure her biggest consequence is that she no longer has you. Move on and keep growing.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

BWBill said:


> _ I just keep going back to the fact that she is skating around any and all consequences . . ._
> 
> Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell.
> 
> Your job is ensure her biggest consequence is that she no longer has you. Move on and keep growing.


:iagree:


----------



## Kahlil Gibran

10th Engineer Harrison said:


> Have a voice-activated recorder on you whenever you see her, and tell her you do (because you can't record her without her permission).


Not necessarily. Many states (like Ohio and Illinois) are one party consent for recording.


----------



## convert

Kahlil Gibran said:


> Not necessarily. Many states (like Ohio and Illinois) are one party consent for recording.


West Virginia (WV) too


----------



## Blossom Leigh

State by State Compliance


----------



## Squeakr

Don't forget that these can be overridden as well, if you are secretly recording for proof of abuse/ neglect in the protection of a minor child or other party that you are a guardian for or that you are responsible for their safety. Need to consult lawyers in these gray areas for your state's ruling on these particulars instances.


----------



## dadof2

I always keep a VAR when meeting with her, and my state is a one party state, so she doesn't have to know if I'm recording.


----------



## bandit.45

You keep your eyes open and the number for CPS handy. If she's on speed, she's going to crash one day with the kids present. Make sure you let them know to call you when she does. Then I'd get CPS involved and go back and ask the judge for full temporary custody.


----------



## bigfoot

Daddo,
Think of it this way: If you are struggling with your new life and all of the adjustments, then that is a good thing. It is progress. Its growing pains. Granted, you did not want them, but it shows that you are growing and getting used to your new life. Who cares how her life is going? She is a liar, cheater and destroyer of a family. Her joys or pains are irrelevant to your life from now on.

On the other hand, if you are missing her, wondering about trying to get back together or something, well, that is not good. If that is the case, visualize this: You married and loved what you thought was a wonderful woman. One day, the mask came off and underneath was an evil ugly on the inside, lying, nasty selfish troll. Now you have a choice, do you put the mask back on and act as if you never saw the truth or do you adjust to living without that troll? your feelings were real, but in the end, you saw the real her. No fog bull****. The real her and she was a troll. She lied about her identity. Visualize whatever you have to. 

Short story to illustrate my point, a long time ago I tried to pick up a woman. Very hot looking. I mean I was going to try to do her in the backseat, (not classy, but I was young and she was showing so much skin that I knew she would do it) Anyhow, as things started progressing, the big reveal came. She was a dude. I was done. he said, you were just trying to get with me and feeling up on me, lets keep on. I absolutely could not. Once the truth was revealed, nothing could restart that fire. I can still say to this day without any hesitation that he was the hottest looking "woman" I had ever seen at that point, but once the truth was out, there was no going back.

Strength my friend. Also, the above story was not to denigrate any same sex loving people, it was just my history.


----------



## dadof2

bigfoot said:


> Daddo,
> Think of it this way: If you are struggling with your new life and all of the adjustments, then that is a good thing. It is progress. Its growing pains. Granted, you did not want them, but it shows that you are growing and getting used to your new life. Who cares how her life is going? *She is a liar, cheater and destroyer of a family. Her joys or pains are irrelevant to your life from now on.*
> 
> On the other hand, if you are missing her, wondering about trying to get back together or something, well, that is not good. If that is the case, visualize this: You married and loved what you thought was a wonderful woman. One day, the mask came off and underneath was an evil ugly on the inside, lying, nasty selfish troll. Now you have a choice, do you put the mask back on and act as if you never saw the truth or do you adjust to living without that troll? your feelings were real, but in the end, you saw the real her. No fog bull****. *The real her and she was a troll. She lied about her identity.* Visualize whatever you have to.
> 
> Short story to illustrate my point, a long time ago I tried to pick up a woman. Very hot looking. I mean I was going to try to do her in the backseat, (not classy, but I was young and she was showing so much skin that I knew she would do it) Anyhow, as things started progressing, the big reveal came. She was a dude. I was done. he said, you were just trying to get with me and feeling up on me, lets keep on. I absolutely could not. Once the truth was revealed, nothing could restart that fire. I can still say to this day without any hesitation that he was the hottest looking "woman" I had ever seen at that point, but once the truth was out, there was no going back.
> 
> Strength my friend. Also, the above story was not to denigrate any same sex loving people, it was just my history.


Thanks bigfoot, I am trying to get to that place. In my head I know that she is a liar and cheater and manipulator. It is just taking my emotions longer to get there. I will say this, whenever I see her name pop up on my phone when she texts, my first reaction is to tell her "Go f*ck yourself" I know its probably not healthy but anger is a stage of grief right??


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> Thanks bigfoot, I am trying to get to that place. In my head I know that she is a liar and cheater and manipulator. It is just taking my emotions longer to get there. I will say this, whenever I see her name pop up on my phone when she texts, my first reaction is to tell her "Go f*ck yourself" I know its probably not healthy but anger is a stage of grief right??


It's okay to hate. Hate can be a positive force for change. Don't feel bad for hating, just don't let it consume you. 

You're having a down day Dad. You're going to have up days and down days...it's all part of the process. Pretty soon you'll start having more good days than bad. Then one day...that blessed day...you will wake up and IT will be gone. That pain and missing her will just be gone. You won't feel anything anymore. No hate, no pain, no anger....It's a wonderful day to look forward to. You'll get there.


----------



## LongWalk

It's precisely because of the failings you describe – not a pleasant list in the person whom you invested love – she is feeling insecure. Suddenly she has to live with herself and it's not so beautiful. That's why she keeps texting and calling, just to keep up her association with the honest, straight and faithful.

She begged for a second chance but refused to buckle down and so some work. In her mind she was being honest about her lack of desire for you. She is probably not happy with OM if they are still together. And if they are not, she wondering what sort knight in shining armour is going to ride up. Her dating and relation CV doesn't look so stellar.

What's the population of your town approximately?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

dadof2 said:


> Thanks bigfoot, I am trying to get to that place. In my head I know that she is a liar and cheater and manipulator. It is just taking my emotions longer to get there. I will say this, whenever I see her name pop up on my phone when she texts, my first reaction is to tell her "Go f*ck yourself" I know its probably not healthy but anger is a stage of grief right??


Yes, it is.


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> It's precisely because of the failings you describe – not a pleasant list in the person whom you invested love – she is feeling insecure. Suddenly she has to live with herself and it's not so beautiful. That's why she keeps texting and calling, just to keep up her association with the honest, straight and faithful.
> 
> She begged for a second chance but refused to buckle down and so some work. In her mind she was being honest about her lack of desire for you. She is probably not happy with OM if they are still together. And if they are not, she wondering what sort knight in shining armour is going to ride up. Her dating and relation CV doesn't look so stellar.
> 
> What's the population of your town approximately?


I'd be lying if I said I didn't wonder what's going on in her life. If she is with OM, if she's happy, etc. But I am proud of myself for not checking her Find my iPhone or her emails or Facebook account. I have access to all that but I haven't checked it once since she ended it a month ago. I think that is a big step in detaching.

We live in a small town, about 6,000 people. Not much to do, and she actually has more "friends" here than I do. Most of my friends are a couple hours away where I went to college. I moved back to my hometown after we got engaged and thought I would always live here and raise my family here.


----------



## LongWalk

You mentioned living in a small town before. Is it her hometown, too?

Good that you don't follow her anymore.

Do they have meetup in your town?


----------



## bigfoot

its okay to feel anger. Hate is still an emotion for her. Your thoughts about what she is doing is normal. You were in a relationship. Still, it is also rooted in the idea that you lost out, that you are missing something with her. I had a friend who had bladder cancer. He was given the option of having his bladder removed. He could not bear the thought. He wanted his bladder, and was not going to have "no damn piss bag". Well, he died with his bladder. 

She is a cancer to you. Tell yourself that everytime you think of her. You are not missing out on anything with her. The woman you knew, if she ever existed, is gone. It is just a body. Your mind must guide your heart. Eventually, you will move to indifference. She won't even be your ex-wife in conversation. You will just say, "I used to be married". or "my kid's mom". This is because you won't want to let folks know SHE was your wife. As a lady once told me about her "baby's daddy", " the only good thing that came out of that was my child, otherwise don't remind me that we used to be together."


----------



## happyman64

Dof2

What have you done for "you" lately?

Have you gotten your whistle wet lately?

And new hobbies or accomplishments lately?

Go try new things that you have never done before. Something you can share with your kids.

It helps.

HM


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> I'd be lying if I said I didn't wonder what's going on in her life. If she is with OM, if she's happy, etc. But I am proud of myself for not checking her Find my iPhone or her emails or Facebook account. I have access to all that but I haven't checked it once since she ended it a month ago. I think that is a big step in detaching.
> 
> We live in a small town, about 6,000 people. Not much to do, and she actually has more "friends" here than I do. Most of my friends are a couple hours away where I went to college. I moved back to my hometown after we got engaged and thought I would always live here and raise my family here.


I'm from a small town and I know the dynamic. But you can use it to your advantage. Instead of hiding in shame, let people see you out and about. Go jogging through town when you workout. Smile and wave to people you know, even though you feel like hiding. Always be friendly and welcoming to people you meet and see. Let them see a man who's strong, self-composed and moving on to better things. 

If a mutual acquaintance comes up to you and asks why you and your wife are getting divorced...be straight up. Say "Most of the time she was a good wife. She kept all her wedding vows except for that part that talks about forsaking all others." Then leave it at that. Let them fill in the blanks. 

Most of the town already knows what happened between you two, but if you are going to continue living there you need to do some active PR work to set the record straight and clear your name. She's already done a lot of spin doctoring to place the blame for her affair on you. 

Cheating is nothing new in small towns. I grew up in a company mining town...the most hedonistic, amoral type of small town there is. Even as a kid I knew who the town bicycles were. Many were shunned women....many were well liked, popular women. Most were tolerated and their husbands were generally pitied. They were excused as "party ladies". I always felt bad for their cuckolded husbands, but I also had a bit of contempt for some of these men because they chose to stay married to these slags.


----------



## carmen ohio

dadof2 said:


> . . . Still working on detaching, its a very tough road! Some days are great and then some days I sink back into the "why me" and mind movies routine. I just keep going back to the fact that she is skating around any and all consequences and I am left to try to put my life back together. Not fun...


Dear dadof2,

As I recall, it's only been about 6 months since all of this started to go down. Considering that, and comparing you to hundreds of other guys who have gone through the adultery ringer on TAM/CWI, you are doing very well in terms of dealing with her infidelity, controlling your emotions and moving forward.

There seems to be a pattern on TAM/CWI that Hs deal much worse with adultery than Ws. I don't know if it says something about the psychological differences between the sexes or if it's just the result of TAM getting a higher than normal percentage of emotionally dependent men. But whatever it is, I wanted you to know -- and I hope it helps for your to know -- that you are at the better end of the curve in terms of recovery dynamics.

Keep it up.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

carmen ohio said:


> There seems to be a pattern on TAM/CWI that Hs deal much worse with adultery than Ws. I don't know if it says something about the psychological differences between the sexes or if it's just the result of TAM getting a higher than normal percentage of emotionally dependent men.Keep it up.


I think that it's a matter of supply and demand. It's easier for woman to move on, because there are a lot more willing men out there.

Lets face it, for the most part, men are interested in sex first and emotional second. There are millions of guys that'll talk the talk, to score. If they make a connection in the process, the relationship lasts longer.

Generally, women are in it for that "feeling". Especially new relationships. Some, many, will get physical earlier than they had planned, or wanted to because the emotional aspect over rides their brake pedal.

If you're a woman and what I just wrote bothers you, you're taking what I've said wrong. I believe that in the love/sex department, women hold all the cards. They just sometimes tend to lay their hand down too early in the game. Even when the stack of chips at the center of the table is too small.


----------



## LongWalk

Men and women have different mating strategies. That's evolutions expression to balance the disparate investment in sex.


----------



## sidney2718

bandit.45 said:


> It's okay to hate. Hate can be a positive force for change. Don't feel bad for hating, just don't let it consume you.
> 
> You're having a down day Dad. You're going to have up days and down days...it's all part of the process. Pretty soon you'll start having more good days than bad. Then one day...that blessed day...you will wake up and IT will be gone. That pain and missing her will just be gone. You won't feel anything anymore. No hate, no pain, no anger....It's a wonderful day to look forward to. You'll get there.


Listen to Bandit. Don't let the hate throw you. Let it out. What you are aiming for is the opposite of love. The opposite isn't hate, it is indifference. You've got to get the hate out of the way before you can get to indifference.


----------



## dadof2

I am not looking forward to today. STBX is meeting me at the doctors office for an appointment for our son. Not looking forward to sitting in the waiting room with her and trying to fake small talk. I've been reading the 180 over and over this morning trying to remind myself to stay cool and detached. I want to act like everything is great but I don't want to try to oversell it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Hey and you know what... if you don't get it perfect... it's ok.

Be kind to yourself today... just focus on your son. 

You are Dad today...


----------



## Satya

Bring a book to read.


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> I am not looking forward to today. STBX is meeting me at the doctors office for an appointment for our son. Not looking forward to sitting in the waiting room with her and trying to fake small talk. I've been reading the 180 over and over this morning trying to remind myself to stay cool and detached. I want to act like everything is great but I don't want to try to oversell it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Turn your ringer off then make a fake phone call to a fake girlfriend. Make fake small talk, giggle and smile a little, keep,your voice hushed as if you don't want your ex to hear. Don't overplay it. 

End the fake call with "I feel the same way (smile). I'll call you tonight." 

When she fakes nonchalance and asks "Who was that?" Just look at her with a "really?" kind of look and go back to reading.


----------



## LongWalk

No need to fake a phone call. 

Why bother trying to get into her speed head brain?

Take a good book.

If she wants to make small talk, play along. Just make your replies short, polite and friendly. Don't give lots of hooks in the conversation but don't give zero either, just very few. Be honest, straight and laconic. She friend zoned you. Now you acquaintance zone her. Co-parent and acquaintance.

Don't show any interest in her personal life. If she says POS broke his leg. Just say "That's a shame. Hope he'll be better soon."

It's not so much what you say, but how bring it off.

Will be interesting to see if she wears tight jeans or make up.

Your troubles with her are not over. She is bound to be emotionally needy at some point in the future.


----------



## BWBill

Remember that you're working on detachment.

Don't make stuff up to get under her skin, that's caring about what she thinks.

Don't ask any questions about anything except divorce issues or children.

If she asks questions about your life be non-committal or tell her you'd prefer not to talk about it. 

*Be comfortable with silence.*

If she gets upset with you or says she's trying to be friends tell her that tell her calmly that this is difficult and that it's best to keep communications to things about kids or the divorce.



Good luck.


----------



## happyman64

It is not about you or her.

Today is about your son.

Focus on him.

Though I always love a good book.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Love the "be comfortable with silence" which reminds me to also remind you to avoid "bait" tossed your way.

Either ignore it

or 

"I will not be responding to that"


----------



## dadof2

Okay guys, thanks for all the advice. We made it through the appointment okay, our son was playing with toys in the waiting room and we just kind of sat there watching him. Not much small talk, a few logistical things about the kids. We went to see a pediatric neurologist, our son is 4 and has been having behavior problems at school. His teacher is concerned about him possibly being on the autism spectrum, she has a son with Asperger's and said she sees some of the same traits in our son. The doctor we saw today didn't seem to think he has autism, but did diagnose his with ADHD. She mentioned several different methods of treatment, including therapy and/or medication. I may be old school but I don't see the benefit of putting a 4 year old on brain altering medication unless it is a last resort. STBX is all for the medication. I had to resist making a comment about her being on Adderall, but I held it in.

Now to the rough part. Today is my day with the children, and our daughter is in daycare today and my son's school is closed due to the elections taking place. He is able to go to daycare with his sister on days when school is closed. STBX is a teacher and she is also off today because of the closure. In the waiting room, she mentioned bringing our son back to daycare after the appointment, and I said that she could just keep him for the day and I could meet her somewhere on my way home from work to get him. Well on my way back to work after the appointment she called me and said that she is going to take him to eat lunch then bring him to daycare because she is meeting some people and cannot change her plans. I was very disappointed to hear that but I held my tongue. We talked about custody plans for Thanksgiving, because our son is having his tonsils taken out the Friday before the holiday week. I am due to have them that Friday through Wednesday, and she gets them Wednesday until school starts. She asked if we could flip that around because she would be off of school and could take him earlier in the week and I could have them for Thanksgiving day and not have to miss work. She also said that she would like to bring him home from the hospital after his tonsil surgery. I said that's too bad, I am scheduled to have him after surgery so I will be the one to take him home. I also said that I can take a few days off of work around Thanksgiving during my days to have them. Then I made the comment that I will actually keep them with me on those days rather than ship them off to daycare on my day off. That set her off. She said I had no right to say that and it was unfair. I said I was disappointed that she would rather do her own thing than keep our son for a few extra bonus hours. She then said she was working at school with some other science teachers this afternoon and couldn't change it (earlier it was "meet some friends"). She said that it wasn't even her day and that she had already made these plans and that I could just get the kids from daycare on my way home like normal. I said well tell that to our son when you drop him off, that you would spend time with him but it "isn't your day." She got very mad and called me every name in the book. I just said that I think it is terrible that she not take advantage of a few extra hours but it's not my problem to worry about anymore. I said "Have a good day" and hung up.

Maybe I made to big a deal about her bringing our son back to daycare, maybe I should have just let it slide. But it disappoints me that she wouldn't want to take advantage of some extra time with him. But maybe I was upset that she had other plans and that's why I got so frustrated. I didn't raise my voice but I think she could feel that I was pissed. But in her mind that is just me acting like her "parent" and being controlling.

Sorry for the long post, just very emotional and needed to let you guys know. I was hoping not to have one of these fights, but you know it just rubs me the wrong way that she could be so selfish.


----------



## BWBill

Expect setbacks. Learn from them and move on.

_ But it disappoints me that she wouldn't want to take advantage of some extra time with him. _

Get used to being disappointed. You can't control her. You can only control yourself. Be the dad you know how to be.

_But maybe I was upset that she had other plans and that's why I got so frustrated._

Yes, and we all know what those plans might be. Get used to them.

_But in her mind that is just me acting like her "parent" and being controlling._

You don't know what's in her mind. If you need to give her extra time with your son, you need to accept her terms. If you tell her how she should act, she is going to get upset; if she tells you how you should act, you are going get upset. Those are the rules.


----------



## LongWalk

These kinds of conflicts are common. 

The best medicine for active boys is exercise. Get him into a swim club. 

If she is not with OM1, she may well be moving on OM2 and OM3. You can't do anything about her hunger for novelty and entertainment.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Good post Bill.

But I will say that Dadof2 have probably been needing to vent for a while... sometimes busting their chops is in order. Good for you.

Just part of her consequences.... live in the bed you made lady...


----------



## dadof2

Blossom Leigh said:


> Good post Bill.
> 
> But I will say that Dadof2 have probably been needing to vent for a while... sometimes busting their chops is in order. Good for you.
> 
> Just part of her consequences.... live in the bed you made lady...


I agree, Bill's post is a big dose of reality. I guess I just hate the fact that she's out there doing what she wants and is "happy" and is seemingly skating around any consequences. Man this is a rollercoaster!!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I wouldn't get overly caught up in getting digs in.

But if it is time to call a spade a spade... oh well... she will just have to deal with it.


----------



## IIJokerII

dadof2 said:


> I agree, Bill's post is a big dose of reality. I guess I just hate the fact that she's out there doing what she wants and is "happy" and is seemingly skating around any consequences. Man this is a rollercoaster!!


 I hear you there dude, it is a mother fvcker seeing the perpetrator out there have a ball, or 2 or three (AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) while you are still stuck at post limbo withdrawal. And then everybody comes along and says to get moving, get active, meet people, take up hobbies........... It doesn't work, yet, and one day it will. 

Let me guess, you still there taking it in like it was day one, just yesterday. The residual feelings mustering, the uncomfortably new normal scarred by the old normal. What is normal anyway? Whatever we feel comfortable with, and right now you just can't feel that way, not yet. But it is getting easier, isn't it? Those lonely days are now starting to settle in and you are now finding yourself enjoying them, and in a way feeling guilty about it too, aren't ya. That's expected, but not normal. 

You replay the conversations, the events, the thoughts of kicking that guy's a55 all around the world maybe even using imaginative scenarios to make the imaginative payoff that much more fulfilling. You may even imagine her coming to the door to beg for you to allow for her to return, sorry's aplenty, humility to the max with you telling her no way in hell. That's expected, but not normal.

Your almost there, just a little further and then, and only then, can you sit back and watch the ship sink from afar from the safety of the beach shore, but not until you make the exhausting swim back to the beach to begin with. Then just sit back, breath a sigh of relief, be thankful you're safe, and watch with glee that you didn't go down with the ship..................


----------



## bandit.45

Dad don't assume she is happy. A lot of that is an act put on for your benefit. The fact is, she now is a divorcee with a record of cheating under her belt. If she doesn't end up with OM1, she's going to have to lie like Nixon and hide the skeletons from your marriage from any potential future husband she gets her claws into. The poor sap won't know the truth until it's too late and she'll most likely repeat the same behavior when she tires of him. It will be a neverending loop of behavior with her.

Do not let her trick you into thinking she has her act together. Far from it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

bandit.45 said:


> Dad don't assume she is happy. A lot of that is an act put on for your benefit. The fact is, she now is a divorcee with a record of cheating under her belt. If she doesn't end up with OM1, she's going to have to lie like Nixon and hide the skeletons from your marriage from any potential future husband she gets her claws into. The poor sap won't know the truth until it's too late and she'll most likely repeat the same behavior when she tires of him. It will be a neverending loop of behavior with her.
> 
> Do not let her trick you into thinking she has her act together. Far from it.


And you can bet that SHE knows that everyone at the SCHOOL knows. That's hard to deal with. So she's not having the time of her life right now.


----------



## happyman64

The gang is right.

Vent all you want. In time you will no longer feel the need to.

And remember this.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with telling her " I cannot believe what a disappointment you have become to me. As a wife. As a mother. And as a woman."

"I cannot wait to get this divorce over with!"

I think this will be cathartic for you.

And it is something she will always remember.

Maybe it will motivate her to be a better mother. One out of three is about all she is good for......


----------



## Blossom Leigh

happyman64 said:


> The gang is right.
> 
> Vent all you want. In time you will no longer feel the need to.
> 
> And remember this.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with telling her " I cannot believe what a disappointment you have become to me. As a wife. As a mother. And as a woman."
> 
> "I cannot wait to get this divorce over with!"
> 
> I think this will be cathartic for you.
> 
> And it is something she will always remember.
> 
> Maybe it will motivate her to be a better mother. One out of three is about all she is good for......


Correct because it does not serve her or your kids for her to remain in the state that she is in. Let her feel the consequences, for without them she will remain in that state.


----------



## dadof2

bandit.45 said:


> Dad don't assume she is happy. A lot of that is an act put on for your benefit. *The fact is, she now is a divorcee with a record of cheating under her belt. If she doesn't end up with OM1, she's going to have to lie like Nixon and hide the skeletons from your marriage from any potential future husband she gets her claws into.  The poor sap won't know the truth until it's too late and she'll most likely repeat the same behavior when she tires of him. It will be a neverending loop of behavior with her.
> 
> Do not let her trick you into thinking she has her act together. Far from it.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would hope that this would always rear its head as she moves into any relationship. That would be the best "karma" I could get. I guess that if it happens to the next guy then it would validate me that I really wasn't the problem. I hate that my kids will have a front row seat for it, but I want to see her crash and burn. In the meantime I am trying to move forward, stay busy, etc. but there are still those down times when everything creeps in.


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> I would hope that this would always rear its head as she moves into any relationship. That would be the best "karma" I could get. I guess that if it happens to the next guy then it would validate me that I really wasn't the problem. I hate that my kids will have a front row seat for it, but I want to see her crash and burn. In the meantime I am trying to move forward, stay busy, etc. but there are still those down times when everything creeps in.


Not an "if"....

It will happen again, because your STBXWW has learned nothing from her experience with you, except how to dodge responsibility. I would say that this behavior has been a factor in her life since before you met her, it just manifested itself in different ways than adultery.


----------



## dadof2

bandit.45 said:


> Not an "if"....
> 
> It will happen again, because your STBXWW has learned nothing from her experience with you, except how to dodge responsibility. I would say that this behavior has been a factor in her life since before you met her, it just manifested itself in different ways than adultery.


Yeah as I have analyzed this situation in my mind, I can see now through her relationship with her parents and their family dynamic that she has skirted responsibility her whole life. Her sister is the only one who sometimes makes a fuss about it but then her mom just sucks up to her sister for a while, buys her kids gifts, etc. until sister is pacified, then right back to enabling my STBX.

In my IC sessions my counselor keeps talking about how good it is that I am dealing with these emotions and processing everything and that she is just avoiding and rugsweeping and it will always come home to roost in one way or the other. In my last session I was complaining that STBX seems to be doing whatever she wants and has no consequences. My therapist said that wherever STBX goes in the future she will always be bringing "herself" along and that is a heavy burden that others will come to see after a certain amount of time.


----------



## happyman64

> My therapist said that wherever STBX goes in the future she will always be bringing "herself" along and that is a heavy burden that others will come to see after a certain amount of time


Your therapist is wise.

Think really hard about this.

You are getting upset because your wife has faced no real consequences for her lies/cheating. 

You see her making time for her friends instead of your kids being the priority.

Look at how damaged she is and realize that you are the prize not her.

She will be damaged goods forever unless she decides to grow up and work on herself.

I highly doubt that will ever happen with the support group she has in place.

A liar.
A cheater.
A drug addict.
A total nut job when you add all 3 up.

Now get back to focusing on you.


----------



## LongWalk

> They wound up going to *a different place* than where they said they would go, and the *other man*'s truck *was also there*. There was a group of about *10 people* from her work there. I waited in the parking lot for 2 hours to see what would happen when she left. She eventually came outside and was obviously very drunk.* Her friends were helping her stand up. *I drove over and asked her to get in the car. I then went inside and confronted the man and told him that he wasn't going to ruin my marriage.


She couldn't even have sex with OM that night. Too drunk.

What a bunch of losers.

It probably goes through your head that if you have dealt with cheating decisively from the start, it wouldn't come to this. But the truth is her marriage to you was an attempt to create order in her life. When order was in place she couldn't stand it.

What kind of disorder is she going to create now?

You've no need to wonder about future troubles lie in the distance. They will come sooner than you expect.

She is what 30, 31? She is going to be in mad rush to turn her looks into a magical new relationship.

How many of her 10 toxic friends have sound marriages?


----------



## honcho

dadof2 said:


> Okay guys, thanks for all the advice. We made it through the appointment okay, our son was playing with toys in the waiting room and we just kind of sat there watching him. Not much small talk, a few logistical things about the kids. We went to see a pediatric neurologist, our son is 4 and has been having behavior problems at school. His teacher is concerned about him possibly being on the autism spectrum, she has a son with Asperger's and said she sees some of the same traits in our son. The doctor we saw today didn't seem to think he has autism, but did diagnose his with ADHD. She mentioned several different methods of treatment, including therapy and/or medication. I may be old school but I don't see the benefit of putting a 4 year old on brain altering medication unless it is a last resort. STBX is all for the medication. I had to resist making a comment about her being on Adderall, but I held it in.
> 
> Now to the rough part. Today is my day with the children, and our daughter is in daycare today and my son's school is closed due to the elections taking place. He is able to go to daycare with his sister on days when school is closed. STBX is a teacher and she is also off today because of the closure. In the waiting room, she mentioned bringing our son back to daycare after the appointment, and I said that she could just keep him for the day and I could meet her somewhere on my way home from work to get him. Well on my way back to work after the appointment she called me and said that she is going to take him to eat lunch then bring him to daycare because she is meeting some people and cannot change her plans. I was very disappointed to hear that but I held my tongue. We talked about custody plans for Thanksgiving, because our son is having his tonsils taken out the Friday before the holiday week. I am due to have them that Friday through Wednesday, and she gets them Wednesday until school starts. She asked if we could flip that around because she would be off of school and could take him earlier in the week and I could have them for Thanksgiving day and not have to miss work. She also said that she would like to bring him home from the hospital after his tonsil surgery. I said that's too bad, I am scheduled to have him after surgery so I will be the one to take him home. I also said that I can take a few days off of work around Thanksgiving during my days to have them. Then I made the comment that I will actually keep them with me on those days rather than ship them off to daycare on my day off. That set her off. She said I had no right to say that and it was unfair. I said I was disappointed that she would rather do her own thing than keep our son for a few extra bonus hours. She then said she was working at school with some other science teachers this afternoon and couldn't change it (earlier it was "meet some friends"). She said that it wasn't even her day and that she had already made these plans and that I could just get the kids from daycare on my way home like normal. I said well tell that to our son when you drop him off, that you would spend time with him but it "isn't your day." She got very mad and called me every name in the book. I just said that I think it is terrible that she not take advantage of a few extra hours but it's not my problem to worry about anymore. I said "Have a good day" and hung up.
> 
> Maybe I made to big a deal about her bringing our son back to daycare, maybe I should have just let it slide. But it disappoints me that she wouldn't want to take advantage of some extra time with him. But maybe I was upset that she had other plans and that's why I got so frustrated. I didn't raise my voice but I think she could feel that I was pissed. But in her mind that is just me acting like her "parent" and being controlling.
> 
> Sorry for the long post, just very emotional and needed to let you guys know. I was hoping not to have one of these fights, but you know it just rubs me the wrong way that she could be so selfish.


Just as your stbx has taken the easy way out on everything I find it ironic that she would just jump to medicating your son instead of exploring other options which usually require more work and effort but is better long term for your son.


----------



## just got it 55

bandit.45 said:


> Dad don't assume she is happy. A lot of that is an act put on for your benefit. The fact is, she now is a divorcee with a record of cheating under her belt. If she doesn't end up with OM1, she's going to have to lie like Nixon and hide the skeletons from your marriage from any potential future husband she gets her claws into. The poor sap won't know the truth until it's too late and she'll most likely repeat the same behavior when she tires of him. It will be a neverending loop of behavior with her.
> 
> Do not let her trick you into thinking she has her act together. Far from it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No fvcking way she is having any happiness at all

None.

If we all put our troubles in a basket then put them in the middle of Michigan Stadium 100K strong we would all run for our own baskets.

Think about what her troubles are:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:

More than you can conceive of my brother

55


----------



## tryingpatience

BWBill said:


> Expect setbacks. Learn from them and move on.
> 
> _ But it disappoints me that she wouldn't want to take advantage of some extra time with him. _
> 
> Get used to being disappointed. You can't control her. You can only control yourself. Be the dad you know how to be.


Bill is right. Get use to it. One weekend my ex was being extra nice to me and offered to let me have the kids for longer one Sunday. I was suspicious but gladly accepted the extra time with my kids. I found out later it was because she was on a date with the OM.

It was a setback but I learned from it. The more she disappointed me the more I saw her for the person she really was. Now I could care less about what she does so long as my kids are taken care of.


----------



## dadof2

I went out on a blind date last Saturday night with a friend of a friend. We met at a local bar and had a few drinks and talked for a while. We had a good time, I asked if I could see her again and she said yes. We are meeting at another restaurant tonight.

One thing I felt after meeting her was that I am not ready for this! I don't know if it is that I don't want to put myself out there and meet new people, or if its this particular girl that I'm not feeling, or what it is. I know it is relatively early to start dating again but I didn't want to pass up the opportunity. I don't know how I feel about her yet and I didn't feel the fireworks going off when I left our date the other night. I have been out of the game so long I don't know how I should be feeling, lol.

I don't want anything serious, but I think its nice to be able to get dressed up and be social again. Sometimes I feel like I have to drag myself out the door, but I am working on it...


----------



## bandit.45

Dad you're not asking her to marry you. You're going on a date. Just have fun being with a nice woman. Enjoy her smell and looks and vibe. Nothing needs to happen. Float on the tilde. Slow and easy.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Places to go

People to see

Soak up the scenery

Leave it right there...

because you are still processing and will be for a while.


----------



## Squeakr

Good deal and glad to hear about your date and progress in moving on. Just remember it is like I told my friend the other day, I don't necessarily want to join the rodeo again yet, but it would be nice to just get back on the horse and make a trip around the arena at least once. Get back on your horse. LOL.


----------



## bandit.45

And if, perchance, a she offers a BJ, then by all means...


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

bandit.45 said:


> And if, perchance, a she offers a BJ, then by all means...


Yeah, then he can tell us the date sucked, but I'm going out with her again Tomorrow night.


----------



## BWBill

_One thing I felt after meeting her was that I am not ready for this!_

_ . . . but I think its nice to be able to get dressed up and be social again._

Right on both counts. Your world is in turmoil right now as you have been forced to move from the pre-adulterous normality to the post divorce normality that will come. The roller coaster is rolling on.

_ Sometimes I feel like I have to drag myself out the door, but I am working on it... _

Keep doing it. You're doing the right things, and I think you're doing them the right way.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

bandit.45 said:


> And if, perchance, a she offers a BJ, then by all means...


Like I said before...

-10th Engineer Harrison


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2, you were really attracted to your cheating stbx and you thought she was a great catch. Just go out there and talk with women, listen, don't feel stressed for something to happen. You will find someone attractive and this time round you will be a better judge of character. You will not be be blinded by sex.


----------



## IIJokerII

LongWalk said:


> You will not be be blinded by sex.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!1

A stiff **** knows no indifference. I am willing to bet anything that if his stbxw made a push, after say a randomly unexpected hookup one night from some hot steamy sex, that she could almost instantly reignite those feelings for her. Sure, someone new would take longer but given that he is at least a year from healing from this makes him vulnerable to a potentially bad relationship. 

If anything, you should check on getting a vasectomy for obvious reasons. I am sure more than a few BH's here, there and everywhere committed to their relationship after getting the plus sign from their female companions. 

So Dad, if you think you can be cautious enough to not fall the way of the rebound then by all means, get your fvck on, and have a.....................BALL!!!


----------



## LongWalk

Never get a vasectomy based on fear.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

How about this, ask her to be friends and just hang out together. Also find other female friends to hang out with. Find new female friends that you find attractive and once you feel ready, perhaps you can take it further. Flirt with every single one of them. Be playful but don't go further. My single female friends, I always greet them by asking them what they are wearing at the moment.


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> Never get a vasectomy based on fear.


Vasectomies are always based on fear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

That's why I think sterilization is dumb. And that goes for women, too.


----------



## IIJokerII

LongWalk said:


> That's why I think sterilization is dumb. And that goes for women, too.


The need to sterilize is dumb, not the act. How many men and women have endured relationships they felt compelled to be involved in due to conception? A woman may be unable to abort a pregnancy and go full term but face life with an abusive mate or irresponsible one, many other attributes apply. A man may be with a woman he had no intentions of staying with yet also feel compelled to do the Man up mode and stay to raise his child. 

It sucks and all, but it happens.


----------



## LongWalk

It's all because of the selfish genes and their power over our minds, both the rational and irrational. Dadof2's stbx has very little insight into herself.


----------



## IIJokerII

LongWalk said:


> It's all because of the selfish genes and their power over our minds, both the rational and irrational. Dadof2's stbx has very little insight into herself.


 Yeah, and judging by what she turned into he too had little insight into herself, well, save for a slipindictomy he performed on her. All kidding aside, we, you, me, and every other mammal and life form are here for one reason only, to make more of our species. The only difference between us and the rest of the animal kingdom is we know this while they do not, and with our large brains and need for stimuli we are now the dominant species of this here mudball called earth. So when the instinctual urge hits to procreate yes, all civilized thought is tossed out the window. Sometimes the consequences of this bond are wonderful and magnificent while others are destructive and devastating. It is as it always was, life moving forward.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Mr.Fisty said:


> I always greet them by asking them what they are wearing at the moment.


ugh... I hate that line...

CHEEEESSSYYYYYYY

/tj


----------



## IIJokerII

Blossom Leigh said:


> ugh... I hate that line...
> 
> CHEEEESSSYYYYYYY
> 
> /tj


All lines are cheesy, that's what makes them fun. Of course you can take it to the next level if one is brave;

" How about a magic trick, I bet I can make my ( TAM/CWI Edit) disappear! All I need is a volunteer!"


----------



## lordmayhem

dadof2 said:


> I don't want anything serious, but I think its nice to be able to get dressed up and be social again. Sometimes I feel like I have to drag myself out the door, but I am working on it...


If you don't have a nice fitted leather jacket, then get one. It's worth the investment of getting a nice brand like Schott or Andrew Marc. Men and women will see and treat you differently, seriously. 

How To Buy A Leather Jacket For Men | Men's Leather Jackets Guide | Leather Jacket Types - YouTube


----------



## Blossom Leigh

IIJokerII said:


> All lines are cheesy, that's what makes them fun. Of course you can take it to the next level if one is brave;
> 
> " How about a magic trick, I bet I can make my ( TAM/CWI Edit) disappear! All I need is a volunteer!"


augh

Fun for who?

lol

I'm a shut up and kiss me kind of girl


----------



## dadof2

lordmayhem said:


> If you don't have a nice fitted leather jacket, then get one. It's worth the investment of getting a nice brand like Schott or Andrew Marc. Men and women will see and treat you differently, seriously.
> 
> How To Buy A Leather Jacket For Men | Men's Leather Jackets Guide | Leather Jacket Types - YouTube


I have done a lot of upgrading to my wardrobe since we separated. I probably should have done it years ago, but its one of those things that you don't think about all the time. I was in a clothing store the other day and they had some very nice leather jackets. I tried a few on and they looked and felt great. I may buy myself a nice Christmas present this year.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I believe in this leather jacket thing.

I've bought them for boyfriends. lol

And of course as a horsewoman, the smell of leather is in my blood.


----------



## LongWalk

Read Kolors thread. His WAW told him she hated him and wanted a divorce. Sadly he moved out while hoping to reconcile.

Finally he got over her. He connected with an old girlfriend and got a new better paying job. His life is going well.

Now she says she only wanted the separation for a month so that they could get their shyte together. The two guys she slept with have not delivered the magic new better life.

When she and Kolors meet to exchange the kids or discuss the terms of divorce she tells him that she so pissed that his life so good now.

Your WW is worse than his. Same mixed up thinking but fewer moral scruples.

You need to work out and socialize because when your wife starts complaining that you divorced her instead if fighting for her, you need to have your life in order.

Maybe her life is going to be great now but I doubt it.


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> I have done a lot of upgrading to my wardrobe since we separated. I probably should have done it years ago, but its one of those things that you don't think about all the time. I was in a clothing store the other day and they had some very nice leather jackets. I tried a few on and they looked and felt great. I may buy myself a nice Christmas present this year.


The cool thing about a nice leather, bomber type jacket, is that it goes good with just about anything....Levi's, khakis....it's hard to go wrong with one.


----------



## IIJokerII

bandit.45 said:


> The cool thing about a nice leather, bomber type jacket, is that it goes good with just about anything....Levi's, khakis....it's hard to go wrong with one.


Even a55less chaps too. Kinda like the bacon of Jackets.


----------



## lordmayhem

Blossom Leigh said:


> I believe in this leather jacket thing.
> 
> I've bought them for boyfriends. lol
> 
> And of course as a horsewoman, the smell of leather is in my blood.


Indeed. There's a reason a very good percentage of leather jackets are gifts from women to their boyfriends/husbands. Just read all the reviews about them online. Half of them are written by women who gave them as a gift to their man.


----------



## bandit.45

IIJokerII said:


> Even a55less chaps too. Kinda like the bacon of Jackets.


Uh.....okay....


----------



## dadof2

It's been over a week since I last updated, not much new to report. Things are kind of settling in, STBX and I have not communicated in a week or so. I do better when I can put her out of sight, out of mind. It has been 2 weeks since my side sent over a proposal to settle our community property and we haven't heard from her or her lawyer about it yet.

I spent most of last week on a business trip- mostly fishing with a few meetings sprinkled in. It was a great time and really could not have come at a better time for me. It was nice to meet a lot of people from around the country and not have to worry about my situation. Gives me some hope for the future that maybe I will make it out of this, haha!


----------



## IIJokerII

dadof2 said:


> It's been over a week since I last updated, not much new to report. Things are kind of settling in, STBX and I have not communicated in a week or so. I do better when I can put her out of sight, out of mind.
> 
> I spent most of last week on a business trip- mostly fishing with a few meetings sprinkled it. It was a great time and really could not have come at a better time for me. It was nice to meet a lot of people from around the country and not have to worry about my situation. Gives me some hope for the future that maybe I will make it out of this, haha!


Your on your way. Full of Win!!!!


----------



## happyman64

Correction: You are well on your way to getting out of this mess.


----------



## LongWalk

Good job.

You're going to make it.

When you date just be careful not to get emotionally attached to a person who has too many issues.


----------



## tryingpatience

LongWalk said:


> When you date just be careful not to get emotionally attached to a person who has too many issues.


I might start a thread on this. My experience now that I'm with someone again. 

Dadof2, meeting other people is really good. It will force you to re-evaluate what you want in your next relationship. Maybe it stays the same, maybe it doesn't but the next time you'll be more confident and you'll know your boundaries and how to enforce them better.

The way I see things now. I'm a father and I have kids. That alone is a full life and it makes me happy to see it that way. I deserve to be picky and get what I want


----------



## bandit.45

You're doing great Dad. I see nothing but a better future for you.


----------



## Openminded

Great update!!

I admit I felt you were never going to get away from her. I love being wrong in cases like this.


----------



## lordmayhem

Agree with all the above responses. Detaching takes time and things are promising. He will one day reach the point of indifference.


----------



## harrybrown

You will make it. Keep the ex away and continue the 180.


----------



## LongWalk

Dof2 has never been quiet this long.


----------



## happyman64

Maybe he has a GF?

Or maybe he is just focusing on himself.....


----------



## just got it 55

happyman64 said:


> Maybe he has a GF?
> 
> Or maybe he is just focusing on himself.....


Hopefully both

55


----------



## dadof2

LongWalk said:


> Dof2 has never been quiet this long.


Hey guys, I'm still alive, lol!

Not much new to report, STBX and I aren't talking much and I am focusing on moving forward with my life. I still have rough days and triggers but they seem to disappear quicker now.

I have been on a few dates with a few different girls, all nice but no real prospects. I'm just glad to be putting myself out there and feeling like a man again.

Still no word from STBX on our community property settlement. I sent her a proposal a month ago and she hasn't said a word to me about it. I've had my lawyer send hers a few emails trying to move it along but so far nothing's happening. We have 5 more months to go before our year of separation is up. I may not post as much but I do read this thread and others to get advice and try to maintain my focus. I will update as things change!


----------



## LongWalk

Not dealing with the property settlement is just more game playing. As long as you are in negotiations, you are still a subject for her attempts to control.


----------



## happyman64

Keep dating. Keep the focus on you and the kids. She is very immature. Ignore her unless it is about the divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Hopefully she will be ashamed enough not to create more drama. 

One of these days Dof2 is going to observe that when he meets her she strikes him as an unattractive personality, a strange and unstable woman. He is going to wonder what he ever saw in her. Whatever physical beauty she has will seem to be pure deception. Isn't there some flower that is beautiful but smells like rotting flesh?


----------



## dadof2

Hey guys, just wanted to catch you up to speed on where I'm at. Still moving forward, not much contact with STBX. My lawyer emailed me this morning saying that she has spoken to STBX's attorney about trying to get her to respond to our community property proposal. Her lawyer said he has called and emailed STBX about it but she has not responded. I guess she is having too much fun in affairland to worry about it.

Last week the kids and I were putting up our tree and my son mentioned something about the tree at OM's house. That was the second time that week that he had said something about OM's house. The first time I just let it go. My kids had not mentioned anything about being there for several months, but when he said something about his christmas tree that told me that they have been over there recently. There is nothing legally I can do to stop it, but STBX and I agreed not to expose the children to significant others until after the divorce. I should have known she wouldn't follow it but I guess to actually hear it made it sting a little. I sent her a text saying that our son has now mentioned being at OM's house twice this week and I am very disappointed that she didn't follow our agreement. She didn't respond.

Fast forward to this week. Our 4 year old son has been having a few behavioral issues at school so we made a couple appointments with doctors and therapists around town. I think its a little overblown, I mean he's 4 and in pre-k and the teacher says he has problems sitting still- big surprise. But the teacher and STBX are in cohoots so she advised that we get him evaluated. Well we have an appointment this coming Thursday evening at 6. It is my day to have the children, so she has no excuse not to make the appointment. She texted me yesterday to say that she has plans and can't make the appointment. I tell her that I am disappointed that other things are more important to her than our son. She said she would do anything to help him but that she has plans that night. So I let her have it. I texted her that her actions over the last year have shown me that she is a horrible, selfish person. I told her that I am disappointed in her as a wife, mother, and as a person. She responded that my opinion of her means absolutely nothing to her and that she wants to focus on the children. I said don't give me the focus on the children line anymore- she has shown how much she cares for their well being. She never responded.

I may have been looking for a fight a little bit, and I know I am supposed to be detached and not fight with her. But I have been wanting to get that off my chest for a while. For some reason I wanted to tell her that I think she is a horrible person, so I did. I'm sure its just more fuel for her to go cry on OM's shoulder and let him continue to play the "rescuer."

My biggest issue through all of this has been the fact that her parents still are oblivious to the whole idea of OM. They don't want to know the truth or ask the hard questions. They would rather believe that she is home alone "healing" from her abusive marriage, but she is really over at OM's trailer with the kids playing house. But I learned that her parents have chosen their lens to view things through, and me calling or emailing them everytime OM is mentioned will just make me look petty.

Sorry for the long update, other than those few texts we really don't contact each other very much at all. Its like she is settling in to her new life with OM. I am settling into my new life as well, but I really want karma to slap her in the face. But I know it doesn't do me any good to sit around waiting on that.


----------



## ButtPunch

Dad

Hang in there. Your angry texts did not bother her in the least. You are going to have to just let her go. She probably enjoys seeing you get all worked up.

BTW...Karma doesn't exist. She may live happily ever after. You need to create your own karma by moving on. 

Best of Luck


----------



## tom67

Dad it's a fed program to make little boys zombies on ritalin if he is a "normal" 4 yr old tell the teacher to kick rocks.
Stop feeding her ego and start dating again.


----------



## G.J.

God! the child is only 4 and his mother and father have separated and She's seeing a new guy and he wont sit still????

Do these people try to justify there jobs no matter what ?


----------



## LongWalk

In her mind she probably saw the appointment with the therapist as an attempt by you to see her. You still want to R and your emotional outburst was proof of that. At the end of the day neither you nor your wife believe your son is a problem. Like all little boys he needs exercise and a male role model, not pills (Tom is right on that one).

Once a couple is separated and headed for divorce it is impossible to keep them from exposing the kids to affair partners. This the first time in a long time that you have clear confirmation that the affair never ended. They managed to tone it down enough not to get in to much trouble at work. 

Dadof2, believe in yourself. Work out. Do fun things with your kids. What sports do they play? Maybe they are still too young.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to catch you up to speed on where I'm at. Still moving forward, not much contact with STBX. My lawyer emailed me this morning saying that she has spoken to STBX's attorney about trying to get her to respond to our community property proposal. Her lawyer said he has called and emailed STBX about it but she has not responded. I guess she is having too much fun in affairland to worry about it.
> 
> Last week the kids and I were putting up our tree and my son mentioned something about the tree at OM's house. That was the second time that week that he had said something about OM's house. The first time I just let it go. My kids had not mentioned anything about being there for several months, but when he said something about his christmas tree that told me that they have been over there recently. There is nothing legally I can do to stop it, but STBX and I agreed not to expose the children to significant others until after the divorce. I should have known she wouldn't follow it but I guess to actually hear it made it sting a little. I sent her a text saying that our son has now mentioned being at OM's house twice this week and I am very disappointed that she didn't follow our agreement. She didn't respond.
> 
> Fast forward to this week. Our 4 year old son has been having a few behavioral issues at school so we made a couple appointments with doctors and therapists around town. I think its a little overblown, I mean he's 4 and in pre-k and the teacher says he has problems sitting still- big surprise. But the teacher and STBX are in cohoots so she advised that we get him evaluated. Well we have an appointment this coming Thursday evening at 6. It is my day to have the children, so she has no excuse not to make the appointment. She texted me yesterday to say that she has plans and can't make the appointment. I tell her that I am disappointed that other things are more important to her than our son. She said she would do anything to help him but that she has plans that night. So I let her have it. I texted her that her actions over the last year have shown me that she is a horrible, selfish person. I told her that I am disappointed in her as a wife, mother, and as a person. She responded that my opinion of her means absolutely nothing to her and that she wants to focus on the children. I said don't give me the focus on the children line anymore- she has shown how much she cares for their well being. She never responded.
> 
> I may have been looking for a fight a little bit, and I know I am supposed to be detached and not fight with her. But I have been wanting to get that off my chest for a while. For some reason I wanted to tell her that I think she is a horrible person, so I did. I'm sure its just more fuel for her to go cry on OM's shoulder and let him continue to play the "rescuer."
> 
> My biggest issue through all of this has been the fact that her parents still are oblivious to the whole idea of OM. They don't want to know the truth or ask the hard questions. They would rather believe that she is home alone "healing" from her abusive marriage, but she is really over at OM's trailer with the kids playing house. But I learned that her parents have chosen their lens to view things through, and me calling or emailing them everytime OM is mentioned will just make me look petty.
> 
> Sorry for the long update, other than those few texts we really don't contact each other very much at all. Its like she is settling in to her new life with OM. I am settling into my new life as well, but I really want karma to slap her in the face. But I know it doesn't do me any good to sit around waiting on that.


At what point, if any, will the CPS effectively be accepted by default?

As for the rest... Ugh.


----------



## dadof2

Yeah I realize that they have been together all along, I actually have been taking pretty good care of myself. I have been on several dates and am enjoying the company of the women . Nothing serious, but I'm meeting lots of new girls and its amazing how much more of a world is out there besides STBX. The few girls I have met are so much more mature than she was.

I have let my lawyer know about the medication situation and she told me to keep her advised, because we can exercise our co-domiciliary status if needed. Being that we agreed to be equal domiciliary parents, I don't know what the steps would be to fight her giving him medication. I think we would just tie it up in the legal system and make STBX turn over her pharmacy records.

I hope to get to the point where I don't have to worry about STBX anymore. I would love to just take the attitude that she is OM's problem now, good luck in your little Peyton Place school. I am getting there slowly, but like my therapist says- in the big picture I am still only a few months removed from having my world turned upside down. Its not going to happen overnight.


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> At what point, if any, will the CPS effectively be accepted by default?


I assume by CPS you mean Community Property Settlement? In my state the divorce can be finalized without having the property settled. Legally the property settlement has to be completed within 3 years of the final divorce decree.


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> At what point, if any, will the CPS effectively be accepted by default?
> 
> As for the rest... Ugh.


NEVER get CPS involved your stbxw is just lazy and doesn't want to properly parent so she can party.
Text her and tell her you want the d over with to review the papers please.


----------



## ButtPunch

Your child has been thru a lot. I agree with you that medicating a four year old is not the answer. I wouldn't take him to the meeting. Tell your ex that the meeting is something we both need to attend and cancel it.

In other words, don't do anything to facilitate him being put on drugs.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> I assume by CPS you mean Community Property Settlement? In my state the divorce can be finalized without having the property settled. Legally the property settlement has to be completed within 3 years of the final divorce decree.


Sorry I thought he meant children's protective services my bad


----------



## lordmayhem

Meds, doctors, and therapists for a 4 year old? Seriously? He's a little kid.

My youngest son started kindergarten when he was 4, just having made the cutoff (october), and there were concerns that he was starting too early and we might want to wait another year. In fact, one teacher said he was having problems (crying, not being able to sit still), but that he would probably adjust to the school environment. And he did. Now he's a junior in high school, straight A's, honor society, etc, etc, etc.

WTF is it about overanalyzing little kids these days? He's 4 and still adjusting to the school environment. And what are the long term effects of medicating children so young when their brains are still developing?

Look, some kids are well behaved in school from the beginning, some aren't. Some are more mature, some aren't. That's how it is.


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> I assume by CPS you mean Community Property Settlement? In my state the divorce can be finalized without having the property settled. Legally the property settlement has to be completed within 3 years of the final divorce decree.


Yeah, that's what I meant. That's what you've been talking about, correct?

And if it's not settled within 3 years of the divorce...?


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Yeah, that's what I meant. That's what you've been talking about, correct?
> 
> And if it's not settled within 3 years of the divorce...?


Hope it doesn't drag out that long.
But if that teacher is a pill pusher she may call the other CPS and that will be a bad thing.
Be careful with your words around her just saying.


----------



## dadof2

tom67 said:


> Hope it doesn't drag out that long.
> But if that teacher is a pill pusher she may call the other CPS and that will be a bad thing.
> Be careful with your words around her just saying.


Yeah I am worried about her taking those pills, but I guess it's out of my hands now. I just hope she takes care of those kids. Right now she thinks she's not doing them any harm by bringing them OM's house. Of course it doesn't physically harm them to be there, but the long term effects of the example she is setting is more what I am concerned about.

As far as the Community Property- I sure hope it doesn't take 3 years. I think she is in no hurry to finish it because that is another step towards closure and the real world setting in.


----------



## Nucking Futs

dadof2 said:


> Yeah I am worried about her taking those pills, but I guess it's out of my hands now. I just hope she takes care of those kids. Right now she thinks she's not doing them any harm by bringing them OM's house. Of course it doesn't physically harm them to be there, but the long term effects of the example she is setting is more what I am concerned about.
> 
> As far as the Community Property- I sure hope it doesn't take 3 years. I think she is in no hurry to finish it because that is another step towards closure and the real world setting in.


You missed Toms point. The pill pusher he's referring to is your son's teacher that wants him drugged into conformity, and may bring child protective services into it if you don't.


----------



## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> You missed Toms point. The pill pusher he's referring to is your son's teacher that wants him drugged into conformity, and may bring child protective services into it if you don't.


Yes that is what I meant.
All it takes is one phone call to them and they take your kids both of them and you are jumping through their hoops.


----------



## LongWalk

Your drug addict STBX wanted to be a good person but she found no thrill in fighting to fix your marriage. OM may or may not be a positive person. His decision to seduce a married woman with small children speaks against him.

Detaching takes time. 

What books do you read your kids at bed time?


----------



## tom67

Slight t/j
It is scary when they think your kids are property of the state
Breastfed, Homebirthed Babies Taken Away From Parents For Not Using Hospital


----------



## Idyit

dadof2 I agree with the others posters about being wary of medicating a 4 year old. Your comments about her abuse is concerning as well. These alone should be enough reason to tap the brakes on getting your son evaluated.

What about considering that your son is reacting to the upheaval in his young life. His parents don't live together anymore! His family has been split. Who knows what he hears on when not with you. It's entirely possible that he is acting out because he doesn't know what's going on in his own life. 

Could counseling be considered for him before meds? Isn't that what we do with adult humans? Just a thought.

~ Passio

*By abuse I was referring to substance abuse.


----------



## happyman64

I would do things a little differently.

I would go to the meeting. Without the WW.

Get the kid observed and not take the Drs advice....

Who knows the Dr may be female and cute.

You showed. She didn't and there is nothing you can do about it right now.

And I am glad you dumped on your Ex. As long as it made you feel better.

Keep working on you. Keep detaching from her. You are slowly realizing there are lots of better candidates for the next Dof2.

Just remember to take your time. Heal.

Screw her and your ex inlaws.

And yes Karma is real. Just as long as you don't count on it or wait for it.

I will remind you the best revenge is to live well. Without her.

HM


----------



## LongWalk

HappyMan put it well indeed.

And regarding healing, your stbxww isn't helping. Her refusal to wind up the divorce promptly is on purpose. Instead of recognizing that as the cheater, she ought to be humble or at least cooperative in the divorce process. She's not, though. Why?

She's fvcking with you; doesn't want you to slip her emotional blackmail and harassment. A conflict with you is a reason to resent or dislike you. She needs someone to blame for what she has done. She cheated and quit her marriage. How does she see herself? They didn't just kiss after workouts. They snuck back to his office or some other place and had sex. After which she went home and pretended nothing happened. At one time she felt guilty about it. Burying the guilt is degrading her.

Now she working to rewrite everything in her own mind. Don't expect better from her. She is going to have to suffer to gain any understanding of what POS wife she has been. And if there is no karma, the lack of insight will reside in her character like a tumor. The less honest she is to herself, the bigger the ugliness will grow. 

She said that she doesn't care about your opinion of her. She would like to see you sad, depressed and unloved. In that state she will tell herself that you are loser. And as such your good opinion is weightless. But everything that you have written in your thread implies that you are a man of integrity, loyal, hard working. Moreover, you are an earnest fellow.

You wished that your attractive stbxWW was loyal and truthful. Sadly she is a deceitful and disloyal woman. Perhaps her drug addiction is factor in her decline.

One thing is certain, you will not get sucked into a rebound relationship and marry someone who has major character flaws. You will not be gullible a second time round.


----------



## happyman64

:iagree:

Now no more angry texts. The only texts should be about the kids and the divorce.

Because she will never feel an ounce of remorse until you are totally gone from her life, living a happy life with the new woman in your life.

When she sees you happily moving on and your kids excited to go over to Dads house with his new woman that is also happy then she will truly comprehend what she did.

And when you treat her like someone you "used" to know she will pause and think again.

Detach, detach, detach. Keep doing it. You are getting there.

It takes time.

HM


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Now no more angry texts. The only texts should be about the kids and the divorce.
> 
> Because she will never feel an ounce of remorse until you are totally gone from her life, living a happy life with the new woman in your life.
> 
> When she sees you happily moving on and your kids excited to go over to Dads house with his new woman that is also happy then she will truly comprehend what she did.
> 
> And when you treat her like someone you "used" to know she will pause and think again.
> 
> Detach, detach, detach. Keep doing it. You are getting there.
> 
> It takes time.
> 
> HM


Ask her in a text when she is going to sign off on the d you are busy moving on
One day at a time.:noel:


----------



## jim123

Work on you and move forward. You know she puts herself before anything. Who cares. Be a good dad and a good man.

It will work out. You are so much better off without her.


----------



## EleGirl

dadof2 said:


> My biggest issue through all of this has been the fact that her parents still are oblivious to the whole idea of OM. They don't want to know the truth or ask the hard questions. They would rather believe that she is home alone "healing" from her abusive marriage, but she is really over at OM's trailer with the kids playing house. But I learned that her parents have chosen their lens to view things through, and me calling or emailing them everytime OM is mentioned will just make me look petty.
> .


You could always have the PI get more pictures and send them to her parent... 

just a thought


----------



## tom67

EleGirl said:


> You could always have the PI get more pictures and send them to her parent...
> 
> just a thought


:iagree:
To a point.

Put pos on cheaterville AFTER the divorce is final.
You will heal after that.


----------



## tom67

Dad I suggest you ask a mod to move this to the private section.
Just sayin.


----------



## GusPolinski

tom67 said:


> Dad I suggest you ask a mod to move this to the private section.
> Just sayin.


Ditto.


----------



## always_hopefull

Dad, please be very cautious in even allowing your son to be tested. Quite often the psychologists may not be using an age appropriate scale. So I would ask various questions regarding the assessment protocol and the demographics of the group it was designed to assess. Also before you even agree to medications, ask what age the medication was designed for. Lowering the dose is often to enough. 

How active is your son? There has been some data suggesting that with today's youths being more sedentary, they are subconsciously fidgeting and rocking in order to help develop the inner ear. There is also further research in how poor sleep patters are effecting children and their ability to perform in school. 

My middle son has Aspergers, they refused to even test him until after age 8. It was though that if you assess a child too early they can be misdiagnosed. 

If you would like further details, please let me know and I can forward some articles. If the teacher gives you a hard time, tell her she may be the one who needs medication and to go pop an Ativan. Your wife may be lapping this info up in hopes that your son will be more docile and enable her to focus on her OM. You could always offer to take him full time if she feels she cannot cope. 

Good Luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## just got it 55

Dad I was a crazy active child My Dr (Crazy Ba$tard) wanted to put me on Phenobarbital and or Bella Dona WTF

My Dad had the good sense to say NFW He just put a hockey stick in my hands a nice clean ice to play on (That was my therapy/haven)

That was in the 60's and now they push drugs even more

Be very careful of pill pushing professionals (PPP)

And for God Sake's listen to HM

DE FVCKEN TATCH

55


----------



## G.J.

Actually good idea 'justgotit55' get him involved in a marital arts class so he can use up some energy and learn control Taekwondo is good for that


----------



## dadof2

just got it 55 said:


> Dad I was a crazy active child My Dr (Crazy Ba$tard) wanted to put me on Phenobarbital and or Bella Dona WTF
> 
> My Dad had the good sense to say NFW He just put a hockey stick in my hands a nice clean ice to play on (That was my therapy/haven)
> 
> That was in the 60's and now they push drugs even more
> 
> Be very careful of pill pushing professionals (PPP)
> 
> And for God Sake's listen to HM
> 
> DE FVCKEN TATCH
> 
> 55


Yes he's only 4 but I am hoping to start him in T-ball this spring.

I am working on detaching, I think I am moving in the right direction. I don't see my arguing with her via text as hanging on to her- more like that I don't feel the need to hold my tongue with her and will start speaking my mind if the time is right. She actually started that particular conversation, where I would usually ignore it this time I took the opportunity to tell her what I thought of her.

I still see my IC once a week and we are just working on letting go of the betrayal and working through the anger of it. I feel like I am doing better, just some days I fall back into the trap of thinking about the married days.


----------



## LongWalk

Swimming is great sport for calming kids and giving them focus. Boys especially need activity. It goes all year with school teams and clubs. Takes time. But there will probably be cute swim moms with whom to chat. You can even chat with the married ones and they will steer their single friends your way.

There are a lot of us following your thread, Dadof2. You have us believing you are going to come out on top. The bewitchment will evaporate. Got to get through Christmas.


----------



## Q tip

The Betaization Indoctrination begins...

Next they'll knock all the maleness and testosterone out of him. He'll be taught to please the woman all the way through highschool (large percentage of women teachers)...

Everyone's a winner in the sports too. No losers. How manly is that...

He's got a lot of energy (good). Provide an outlet (good). Become a role model (good). Info available Ina book - Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011. By Athol Kay. Great read for all guys, married or single. Become his role model. Make him a man.


----------



## tom67

Q tip said:


> The Indoctrination starts...
> 
> Next they'll knock and maleness and testosterone out of him. He'll be taught to please the woman all the way through highschool (large percentage of women teachers)...
> 
> Everyone's a winner in the sports too. No losers. How manly is that...


Exactly what is going on in the public fool (school) system.
:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Q tip

tom67 said:


> Exactly what is going on in the public fool (school) system.
> :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


Got no room for beta lib****s... Waste of my time.


----------



## happyman64

Dof2



> just some days I fall back into the trap of thinking about the married days.


And that is ok. The key is to catch yourself doing it. Stop that thought process and consciously change your thinking to something about bettering your future or your kids.

It takes practice.

Have you read the book "Unbroken"?

HM


----------



## dadof2

happyman64 said:


> Dof2
> 
> 
> 
> And that is ok. The key is to catch yourself doing it. Stop that thought process and consciously change your thinking to something about bettering your future or your kids.
> 
> It takes practice.
> 
> Have you read the book "Unbroken"?
> 
> HM


Just made it through my son's Christmas party at his school. STBX showed up after me and everything went okay. The kids presented gifts to their parents in a wrapped shoebox, and my son had made 2 sets of ornaments for each tree- kind of a heartbreaker. My therapist said that this year will contain a lot of "firsts" and the holidays always bring out the emotions.

I'm actually doing okay though. I have a date with a girl I've seen a couple times before. She is coming over tonight after the kids go to bed. She is actually about 10 years older than me and never been married. Definitely not what I'm looking for long term but she is a lot of fun and doesn't seem to be looking to get serious either.


----------



## LongWalk

The split up family at Christmas is always a bit sad. My kids are 19 and 17 now. I get them on Christmas day this year. 

As long as they know they aren't losing a parent, and that both parents love them, they will adjust okay.


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> Just made it through my son's Christmas party at his school. STBX showed up after me and everything went okay. The kids presented gifts to their parents in a wrapped shoebox, and my son had made 2 sets of ornaments for each tree- kind of a heartbreaker. My therapist said that this year will contain a lot of "firsts" and the holidays always bring out the emotions.
> 
> I'm actually doing okay though. I have a date with a girl I've seen a couple times before. She is coming over tonight after the kids go to bed. She is actually about 10 years older than me and never been married. Definitely not what I'm looking for long term but she is a lot of fun and doesn't seem to be looking to get serious either.


Nothing wrong with a little cougar action.:lol:


----------



## Chaparral

Q tip said:


> The Betaization Indoctrination begins...
> 
> Next they'll knock all the maleness and testosterone out of him. He'll be taught to please the woman all the way through highschool (large percentage of women teachers)...
> 
> Everyone's a winner in the sports too. No losers. How manly is that...
> 
> He's got a lot of energy (good). Provide an outlet (good). Become a role model (good). Info available Ina book - Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011. By Athol Kay. Great read for all guys, married or single. Become his role model. Make him a man.


Is this how the area Dad lives in got to the point its OK for the assistant principal to bang married, dope addicted teachers under his supervision and break up their families.

If this happened in our area, the asst. Principal couldn't get out of town fast enough. A girls lesbian basketball coach and a boys coach have been run out of this county for much less.


----------



## happyman64

Chaparral said:


> A girls lesbian basketball coach and a boys coach have been run out of this county for much less.


What I want to know Chap is did they leave together?


----------



## LongWalk

Dadof2,

What does the entrance of OM's trailer park look like? It's not littered wrecks and rusty propane tanks or anything, right?


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> Dadof2,
> 
> What does the entrance of OM's trailer park look like? It's not littered wrecks and rusty propane tanks or anything, right?


Come on now LW stereotypes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myhnAZFR1po


----------



## LongWalk

Happy New Year, Dadof2!


----------



## Observer

jld said:


> It will get better. Just trust in that.
> 
> You don't want to be with someone who does not want to be with you. You want someone who loves and values you. Someone who will be loyal to you. Someone you can be yourself with.
> 
> Try to see this as your wife setting you free to be with this new person. Think of it as a gift she has given you. She knew she could not be what you needed, so she is allowing someone else to come in and be that, eventually.
> 
> Believe that you will go on to a happier, peaceful life.


Brilliant post! It's old I know but wise, wise words.


----------



## the guy

Ya, hows that older women thing working for you?


----------



## ThePheonix

the guy said:


> Ya, hows that older women thing working for you?


My problem is at my age, many grandmothers are considered young chicks.


----------



## RV9

ThePheonix said:


> My problem is at my age, many grandmothers are considered young chicks.


Damn... How old are you?


----------



## MattMatt

ThePheonix said:


> My problem is at my age, many grandmothers are considered young chicks.


Yes. I know what you mean!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThePheonix

RV9 said:


> Damn... How old are you?


When I was born Harry Truman was Prez.


----------



## just got it 55

Dad Happy New Year

How's things young man ?

55


----------



## happyman64

So Do2 are you getting ready for a better, healthier, happier New Year?


----------



## GusPolinski

Posting the following update from dadof2 (w/ his permission, of course)...



dadof2 said:


> Yeah I don't mind if you post an update. I feel like I am in a good place, my IC has helped a lot. I am a lot more prepared emotionally if/when she makes an attempt to R. She has shown remorse and has made plans to start teaching at a new school next fall. I am just not investing anything emotionally in her. I have pretty much let it go and am kinda numb to anything she says/does.
> 
> 
> 
> GusPolinski said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dadof2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GusPolinski said:
> 
> 
> 
> Happy New Year! How did the holidays treat you? How have you been?
> 
> Cheers,
> GP
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Gus!
> 
> Thanks for checking in, I'm doing okay, the holidays were great, I had the kids for Christmas so it made it really nice. Not a whole lot of news to report, we are closing in on 9 months separated. Our state requires a 12 month separation before the divorce can be final. I have been detaching, continuing therapy and feel a lot better about myself. STBX texted me a lot around Christmas/New Years, I think she may be having second thoughts. I am playing everything cool as I have been down this road before. I am not worrying about what she's up to and am finally starting to focus on myself and my kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It sounds like you're doing well! :smthumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> dadof2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being that there isn't much new going on, I haven't updated my thread in a while. I still check in occasionally to refocus and just to see where I've come from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you like, I'd be happy to post the contents of your reply as an "update by proxy" to your thread.
> 
> 
> 
> dadof2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I expect STBX to make another push when the 12 months is up, so we will see how that goes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As you've said, you've been down that road w/ her before. Stay strong, keep detaching, and don't fall for any more of her half-assed or lukewarm attempts to reel you back in. Unless she's falling at your feet and _begging_ for reconciliation... and is willing to IMMEDIATELY quit her job, drop the toxic friends, *and* commit to giving you 100% absolute, total, and complete transparency going forward, there's just no point.
> 
> And either way, the time for all of that was *MONTHS* ago, and, since she couldn't bring herself to commit to it then, you'd be right to suspect that a sudden reversal in that regard -- and any time between now and the day that the final papers are signed -- means nothing more than she's panicking, and is employing new methods to manipulate you.
> 
> I'm not saying that will necessarily be the case (after all, you know her... I don't), but -- either way -- be wary.
> 
> 
> 
> dadof2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again for checking in. Guys like you on this forum have no idea how much you have helped poor schmucks like myself!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We're happy to help!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## happyman64

Glad he is doing ok. Your advice is spot on Gus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Difficult to make out what has transpired but it sounds as if she is not with OM if one can infer anything from "remorse".

I suspect that her drug addiction is her major challenge. Could be that the OM realized she is abusing amphetamines and doesn't want her.


----------



## LongWalk

Have you heard any more from Dof2, Gus?


----------



## GusPolinski

LongWalk said:


> Have you heard any more from Dof2, Gus?


No, but I haven't checked in w/ him again either.


----------



## LongWalk

My hypothesis on why Dadof2 doesn't post anymore: He is a loyal hard working guy. He is not doormat but he felt that WW was really good looking. She was needy and he did everything to fill the void. Her drug dependence demonstrates that no man could satisfy her. She is broken inside. It's not just about sex or excitement. Having two kids, a husband and job still left her restless.

Dof2 now sees that she is not fixable, not without considerable IC at least. There is little to update now from his point of view. He probably no longer feels attraction to his ex. She feels like an anchor unseen preventing him from sailing smoothly.

The two of them shared in the profit from the sale of a rental property that was in her name. I wonder if she cheated him of his share. That sort of vile behavior would further have demeaned her in his eyes.


----------



## wmn1

GusPolinski said:


> Posting the following update from dadof2 (w/ his permission, of course)...


Thanks for the update on this Gus. 

I just reread the threads. I am glad he moved on. His STBXW was very evil in this case and I hope he wins the divorce case. I am just happy for him that he has moved on. Noone deserves to go through what he did


----------



## happyman64

I think Dof2 will post again when he has good news to report.

Like the day the proverbial school bus "accidentally" runs over his exwife or the POSOM.....


----------



## dadof2

Hey guys, just wanted to post an update to my saga:

Things have been going well for me the last few months. STBX and I are past the 10 month mark of the required 12 month separation before divorce. Ever since the beginning of the new year she has been contacting me quite a bit. I have learned not to listen to her words but to watch her actions. I have also learned not to invest anything emotionally in her until I feel comfortable doing so.

During the New Year's holiday she took the kids on vacation with her sister's family and their parents. They were up in a cabin in the mountains for a week. She began calling me when they got home and saying that she really hit bottom on vacation because she had a lot of time to think about the last year and she was also around her family and had to be accountable. I told her I was glad she felt that way and that she needed to go to IC. She agreed and began going on her own in January. During her therapy sessions she revealed to her counselor and later to me that she has been dealing with an Eating Disorder since middle school. She said it comes and goes over the years but ever since our youngest child was born (2.5 years ago) it has escalated. That jives with her eating habits the last couple of years and excessive exercising and weight loss. I told her I was glad she finally admitted her problem and that she should get help. Not for me or us, but for herself and the kids' sake. She began seeing a nutritionist along with a therapist to begin getting things under control.

One thing I told her early on was that no eating disorder, no drug addiction, etc. was any excuse to have an affair. She agreed and said she knows that was a terrible choice but she felt that I was always going to hold her accountable and so she wanted to run as far away from me as possible. She said she broke it off with OM before Christmas and that she wanted to be alone for a while and think about her choices.

One thing her therapist and nutritionist both recommended was that she go to an inpatient treatment center for her eating disorder. They feel that the ED is the root cause of her other problems (adderall, alcohol abuse). They feel that if she can learn to cope with things in a healthy way and learn to feel better about herself and not punish herself for eating certain foods, that she can begin to repair her self image. She admitted that she took the adderall in order to suppress her appetite and then she had to take a drink and a downer at night in order to combat the high from the adderall. She would pass out at night and then start all over in the morning.

This week she began the admission process to an eating disorder treatment center that is about an hour away from where we live. She is scared but she feels that she has to do it in order to get her life back on track. I stressed to her not to do it to try and make me happy, but to get herself healthy so she can be a good mother to our kids no matter what happens between the two of us.

She told me her biggest obstacle in all of this is accountability. She says that I know her better than anyone and that I will hold her accountable while her friends and even her own parents will not. It took her 10 months to realize that holding someone accountable is not being "controlling." She said she wants to show that she can be accountable, she took a day off of work last week and met with 5 different principals at new schools hoping to start at a new school this fall. She switched her phone number back to our family account (it was still active) so I can monitor her calls/texts. She showed me where she has blocked OM and other "friends" numbers on her phone.

I appreciate everything she is doing, and I am also very wary of her intentions. I want to believe her, but I also have been burned enough to be skeptical. I will admit that this is the most she has ever done and she seems genuine in her attempt to get clean. I have not given her much from my end as far as emotional attachment or support. I tell her that I will do anything I can for her as long as she continues to get help. Right now she is working with the treatment center and insurance company for admission, and is hoping to get there as soon as next week.

I feel really good about where I am at with all of this. I believe I have successfully detached from her emotionally and am treating her more as a friend than a wife. I don't know what the future holds, and I still have the ability to file for the final divorce once our year of separation is up. She is very aware of this. My therapist calls it the "velvet hammer" that I can use at anytime if she gets off track. It is nice that I have the power to make the decision now and it is so comforting to know that I will be okay with or without her in my life. When D Day hit I thought I would never be able to live without her- what a difference a year (almost) makes!

I can't thank you all enough for your advice, support, and kindness through all of this. I am still in a mess, but at least my options are clear now. Time will tell how I feel when the 12 months is up, and a lot will depend on how she does in her inpatient rehab. Hope all is well for you guys. Much love.


----------



## turnera

Very nice update. And I have high hopes for you guys.


----------



## Chaparral

Stay strong.

Live long and prosper!

Chap


----------



## GusPolinski

dadof2 said:


> She told me her biggest obstacle in all of this is accountability. She says that I know her better than anyone and that I will hold her accountable while her friends and even her own parents will not. *It took her 10 months to realize that holding someone accountable is not being "controlling."*


Wow.



dadof2 said:


> She said she wants to show that she can be accountable, she took a day off of work last week and met with 5 different principals at new schools hoping to start at a new school this fall. She switched her phone number back to our family account (it was still active) so I can monitor her calls/texts.


Hmm. Why now instead of months ago?

And has she shared her iTunes/iCloud password w/ you as well?

Remember... it was a family outing of some sort (can't remember the details) that prompted her to request reconciliation in the first place.



dadof2 said:


> She showed me where she has blocked OM and other "friends" numbers on her phone.


Hmm... aside from OM, who else has she blocked? And why?


----------



## farsidejunky

Very good, DO2. 

The fact that you are watching her actions is great. You are clearly seeing things from 50,000 feet.


----------



## tom67

Good to hear she is getting help.
Hey don't be a stranger.


----------



## tom67

farsidejunky said:


> Very good, DO2.
> 
> The fact that you are watching her actions is great. You are clearly seeing things from 50,000 feet.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
And his wife senses this hence all the attention she is giving him.
She realizes he doesn't give a sh!t one way or another.


----------



## Suspecting2014

DO2

No matter what she says or does you cant trust her! If I remember rigth she already tryed to fix thing but it was all a lie.

Go on with D, once is done you can date her if you want.


----------



## dadof2

Suspecting2014 said:


> DO2
> 
> Go on with D, once is done you can date her if you want.


That is definitely an option. I have no intention of stopping the D proceedings as of now.


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Why now instead of months ago?
> 
> And has she shared her iTunes/iCloud password w/ you as well?
> 
> Remember... it was a family outing of some sort (can't remember the details) that prompted her to request reconciliation in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm... aside from OM, who else has she blocked? And why?


I don't know why now Gus, but she has told me that she realized that she needed help in order to fix her life and be healthy. I guess she finally hit bottom.

As far as passwords, I have everything. Itunes/Icloud, all email accounts, bank accounts, etc.

She blocked a few toxic friends from work who were complicit in the affair. Looking for a new job means a lot to me, and she volunteered it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

dadof2 said:


> I don't know why now Gus, but she has told me that she realized that she needed help in order to fix her life and be healthy. I guess she finally hit bottom.
> 
> As far as passwords, I have everything. Itunes/Icloud, all email accounts, bank accounts, etc.
> 
> She blocked a few toxic friends from work who were complicit in the affair. Looking for a new job means a lot to me, and she volunteered it.


Has she cleared your name of the dv charges?


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> I don't know why now Gus, but she has told me that she realized that she needed help in order to fix her life and be healthy. I guess she finally hit bottom.
> 
> As far as passwords, I have everything. Itunes/Icloud, all email accounts, bank accounts, etc.
> 
> She blocked a few toxic friends from work who were complicit in the affair. Looking for a new job means a lot to me, and she volunteered it.


On the surface this is good.
For now.


----------



## LongWalk

Good update. Pessimistically, I predicted drama because of her addiction, but it turns out that she has begun to face the problem instead of running away. That is good news.

Did she say that she felt her ability to feel love was damaged by her addictions?

If she is clean for a period, she may be able to be a good spouse.

Did she ask you to wait for her?

She wants you to monitor so that her private life is open to you. Did she ask you if you were dating?


----------



## vellocet

dadof2 said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to post an update to my saga:
> 
> Things have been going well for me the last few months. STBX and I are past the 10 month mark of the required 12 month separation before divorce. Ever since the beginning of the new year she has been contacting me quite a bit. I have learned not to listen to her words but to watch her actions. * I have also learned not to invest anything emotionally in her until I feel comfortable doing so*.


What does this mean? If you are divorcing her, why would you invest in her emotionally at all?


----------



## Clay2013

Well this could turn out good for you in two complete different directions. One you could build a good friendship with her and in return a great communication path for being great parents to your children. What I would have given to have that. 

The other is you could eventually have your wife back and your family as a whole again. I personally would suggest you do as you already are. Take your time. This is all great that she is working on her self but lets be honest it does not change the past. It only helps with the future. 

I do hope the best for you and your kids. I think the only other thing I would advise is follow through with the divorce. If you still want to be with her then start new. 

Clay


----------



## LongWalk

I have a feeling Dadof2's wife is head turner who has never had trouble attracting men. But at a deeper level her self esteem has always been poor.


----------



## happyman64

You know Dof2 while your wife seems to be facing the piper which is great I would like to keep the focus on you.

You are stronger.
You examine her actions now not her words.

But most of all you realize you will be just fine without her in your life if that is the path you choose.

I think it is great that you support her.

She is the mother of your children and obviously needs your support. Good for her! But good for you as well......

No matter what hold her accountable. In time if she is truly remorseful for her hurtful actions you can forgive her infidelity.

But it is good you make it clear that you will never forgive her if she does not hold herself accountable for her lousy choices this past year or two.

Keep being you.

HM


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

dadof2 said:


> I don't know why now Gus, but she has told me that she realized that she needed help in order to fix her life and be healthy. I guess she finally hit bottom.
> 
> As far as passwords, I have everything. Itunes/Icloud, all email accounts, bank accounts, etc.
> 
> She blocked a few toxic friends from work who were complicit in the affair. Looking for a new job means a lot to me, and she volunteered it.


I'm going to go out a limb here and say it's because the OM either dumped her out right, or she realized that he was only in the relationship for some easy panty pudding.

With him out of the picture the fog cleared fast. She sat alone some nights thinking and just realized that the rainbow and butterfly dream was just that a dream. A fantasy.

NOW, she's interested in getting back what and who she thew away.

I would still get D'd. You can date. She still lives where she is living now. After a year, or so, THEN you can kick the idea of trying to get back together around.

I'm telling you, if you don't D and give yourself enough time before trying any renewed relationship with this woman - You will be right back living a brand new Dday, eventually.

Though she'll be much wiser in the ways of keeping infidelity hidden the next time.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's great that she's starting to work on herself and you two are getting along better now. I just feel that given what she has done already, there's no rush to set yourself up for it possibly happening again. If she grows tired of the wait and moves on to a new BF, then you'll know you did the right thing.


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> You know Dof2 while your wife seems to be facing the piper which is great I would like to keep the focus on you.
> 
> You are stronger.
> You examine her actions now not her words.
> 
> But most of all you realize you will be just fine without her in your life if that is the path you choose.
> 
> I think it is great that you support her.
> 
> She is the mother of your children and obviously needs your support. Good for her! But good for you as well......
> 
> No matter what hold her accountable. In time if she is truly remorseful for her hurtful actions you can forgive her infidelity.
> 
> But it is good you make it clear that you will never forgive her if she does not hold herself accountable for her lousy choices this past year or two.
> 
> Keep being you.
> 
> HM


:iagree::iagree:
He doesn't have to remarry her.
They can live together.
Dadof2 you have really evolved.


----------



## tom67

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I'm going to go out a limb here and say it's because the OM either dumped her out right, or she realized that he was only in the relationship for some easy panty pudding.
> 
> With him out of the picture the fog cleared fast. She sat alone some nights thinking and just realized that the rainbow and butterfly dream was just that a dream. A fantasy.
> 
> NOW, she's interested in getting back what and who she thew away.
> 
> I would still get D'd. You can date. She still lives where she is living now. After a year, or so, THEN you can kick the idea of trying to get back together around.
> 
> I'm telling you, if you don't D and give yourself enough time before trying any renewed relationship with this woman - You will be right back living a brand new Dday, eventually.
> 
> Though she'll be much wiser in the ways of keeping infidelity hidden the next time.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I think it's great that she's starting to work on herself and you two are getting along better now. I just feel that given what she has done already, there's no rush to set yourself up for it possibly happening again. If she grows tired of the wait and moves on to a new BF, then you'll know you did the right thing.


:iagree:
No rush.


----------



## SongoftheSouth

dadof2 said:


> That is definitely an option. I have no intention of stopping the D proceedings as of now.


Let me fix that for you:
"I have no intention of stopping the D proceedings"

Forget the first sentence and the qualification after the second sentence. 

All the best


----------



## jim123

dadof2 said:


> That is definitely an option. I have no intention of stopping the D proceedings as of now.


She filed not you. You can not stop this if you wanted to. All you can do is modify terms and drag it out. 

Why has she not stopped the process? Why has she not moved back in?


----------



## GusPolinski

jim123 said:


> She filed not you. You can not stop this if you wanted to. All you can do is modify terms and drag it out.
> 
> Why has she not stopped the process? Why has she not moved back in?


Good catches.


----------



## jim123

dadof2 said:


> I don't know why now Gus, but she has told me that she realized that she needed help in order to fix her life and be healthy. I guess she finally hit bottom.
> 
> As far as passwords, I have everything. Itunes/Icloud, all email accounts, bank accounts, etc.
> 
> She blocked a few toxic friends from work who were complicit in the affair. Looking for a new job means a lot to me, and she volunteered it.


Given she broke up with OM, she would be far better off to leave her job anyway. My guess is that most people knew about the A anyway. Given she is new to teaching, her contract would stand a good chance not to be renewed.

The toxic friends have to go because they know OM and also her history. There is also no way she could bring someone new around them as the truth can come out.

Six months ago she said the same things and turns out she just did not love you.

She does need you now but still more than likely does not love you. The OM was never the issue.


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Good catches.


:banghead::banghead::banghead:
My bad I forgot.
Dad of 2 I guess you will find out in two months.


----------



## bandit.45

jim123 said:


> She filed not you. You can not stop this if you wanted to. All you can do is modify terms and drag it out.
> 
> Why has she not stopped the process? Why has she not moved back in?


Yep. I think she's just stringing him along. Like she has been doing this whole time. 

Detach young Padawan....detach...


----------



## jim123

tom67 said:


> :banghead::banghead::banghead:
> My bad I forgot.
> Dad of 2 I guess you will find out in two months.


She more than likely needs to leave the job. OM is the Ast Prin and OP's dad talked to a board member. The affair appeared to be fairly open.

She does not need to go through a job search and the D at the same time. 

She also now has other issues that could impact custody.

She knows she fully controls OP and needs to delay things until she gets settled. Then it is off to find a new plan A.

If she stops the D, then you know she is serious.


----------



## tom67

jim123 said:


> she more than likely needs to leave the job. Om is the ast prin and op's dad talked to a board member. The affair appeared to be fairly open.
> 
> She does not need to go through a job search and the d at the same time.
> 
> She also now has other issues that could impact custody.
> 
> She knows she fully controls op and needs to delay things until she gets settled. Then it is off to find a new plan a.
> 
> If she stops the d, then you know she is serious.


bingo!!!


----------



## Mr Blunt

> By Dadof2
> I will admit that this is the most she has ever done and she seems genuine in her attempt to get clean.


*At best what she has done so far is baby steps.* You want a person that proves they can run a marathon (long-term marriage). Her first baby steps are encouraging but they are in no way enough for you to think she is repaired in any way. She is to be commended for the actions that she has taken in the last month or two and that is a good start. However, if this was the World Series then you are just in the first Inning and you wife e has scored one run. You cannot celebrate a win in the first inning!






> She says that I know her better than anyone and that I will hold her accountable while her friends and even her own parents will not.


*So do you want the job of monitoring her and making her accountable?* Frankly, you should continue to work on you and your children because that should be by far your top priority. I doubt that you are strong enough to keep recovering from your wounded emotions and help your children and then be the one that keeps your wife accountable. Although her words about you may be flattering,
what she suggested seems to be that she is talking about you making her accountable. That is about her welfare and not yours.






> I believe I have successfully detached from her emotionally and am treating her more as a friend than a wife.
> I have the power to make the decision now and it is so comforting to know that I will be okay with or without her in my life.


If the above is true then you have made a WHOLE LOT of progress in less than a year. Frankly I find it hard to believe that because you have been trying to get your emotions under control for only 10 months; to get totally detached in that short of a time is almost impossible. IMO




*



I have learned not to listen to her words but to watch her actions.

Click to expand...

**Your statement above is going to be the key to your success*!! If you watch her actions for the next few years you will know what you are to do in terms of your relationship with her. I would not be surprised if your wife is trying very hard and is highly motivated right now. She is starting to see reality and the fog is lifting or gone. When that happens many will go like hell for a year or two then they start showing what they really are going to be like for the future.


My advice:
You have been civil with your wife so keep that up.

Follow through on the divorce Not for revenge or spite but because it will protect YOU and be great test for her and you.

Keep improving yourself and bonding more with your children; IOW you and your children are priority and your wife should not interfere in any way with that.


*If you and your wife repair all or most the damage that has been done then you can remarry her if that is what your both wont*. DO NOT remarry in the second or third year. As you know many TAMERS have quoted the professionals as having stated the standard time frame to recover as being 3-5 years; and that is if you both do everything right.


Your have stated that your wife has several problems such as eating disorder, addiction, low self-esteem, and failure to be loyal and committed (betrayal of you and children). *Those are very serious detriments to marriage and takes more than one or two years to get under control enough to rebuild a broken infidelity marriage.*

*
Dadof2, what do you think about going through with the divorce and then watching her actions for a few years to see if she has made enough improvements so that you can trust her again?*


----------



## LongWalk

jim123 said:


> Given she broke up with OM, she would be far better off to leave her job anyway. My guess is that most people knew about the A anyway. Given she is new to teaching, her contract would stand a good chance not to be renewed.
> 
> *Seems she did not lose her job.*
> 
> The toxic friends have to go because they know OM and also her history. There is also no way she could bring someone new around them as the truth can come out.
> 
> *No doubt, her reputation is not good but she has been struggling with this for a long time.*
> 
> Six months ago she said the same things and turns out she just did not love you.
> 
> *She has an inability to love because of her addiction. She can no more love a man properly than a porn addict can love his wife or girlfriend. The combination of speed and alcohol deadened her emotionally. She used sex with OM to gain a thrill but that also died out. She is dead inside.*
> 
> She does need you now but still more than likely does not love you. The OM was never the issue.
> 
> *Yes, she needs Dadof2 to pull herself together. She may fall in love with Dadof2 if he is hard to catch. She needs to be healthy and horny. Dadof2 should not take her back if she cannot pass random urine tests to make certain she is off of amphetimines.*


:iagree:


----------



## wmn1

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I'm going to go out a limb here and say it's because the OM either dumped her out right, or she realized that he was only in the relationship for some easy panty pudding.
> 
> With him out of the picture the fog cleared fast. She sat alone some nights thinking and just realized that the rainbow and butterfly dream was just that a dream. A fantasy.
> 
> NOW, she's interested in getting back what and who she thew away.
> 
> I would still get D'd. You can date. She still lives where she is living now. After a year, or so, THEN you can kick the idea of trying to get back together around.
> 
> I'm telling you, if you don't D and give yourself enough time before trying any renewed relationship with this woman - You will be right back living a brand new Dday, eventually.
> 
> Though she'll be much wiser in the ways of keeping infidelity hidden the next time.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I think it's great that she's starting to work on herself and you two are getting along better now. I just feel that given what she has done already, there's no rush to set yourself up for it possibly happening again. If she grows tired of the wait and moves on to a new BF, then you'll know you did the right thing.


:iagree:


----------



## wmn1

jim123 said:


> She filed not you. You can not stop this if you wanted to. All you can do is modify terms and drag it out.
> 
> Why has she not stopped the process? Why has she not moved back in?


and as Nucking said, what ever happened to the bs DV charges ??????


----------



## leon1

Keep pushing ahead with the divorce and keep dating ,its up to her to win you back .You cant trust her an once so remember how crap she treated you when you are having doubts about divorcing .


----------



## Chaparral

You're doing great Do2. Keep up the good work. Stay strong, stay alert, and remember, actions count and words mean little. 

Its great your wife has faced up to her problems, God bless her. What you do is what you think is best for you and your kids. She fired you, what you do regarding her is whatever you decide you want to do and can handle. Whatever you decide can later be amended if you change your mind. You are in the drivers seat, go where you want. 

I don't know how your wife came to see herself but she has likely saved her own life if she follows through. I can see how her issues made her vulnerable to his advances under the guise of a yoga instructor. Yoga instructors are approaching pimp status in the media now with lawsuits and revelations of impropriety.

Anyway, stay calm and chill. Live long and prosper. Live MMSLP.


----------



## warlock07

dadof2 said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to post an update to my saga:
> 
> Things have been going well for me the last few months. STBX and I are past the 10 month mark of the required 12 month separation before divorce. Ever since the beginning of the new year she has been contacting me quite a bit. I have learned not to listen to her words but to watch her actions. I have also learned not to invest anything emotionally in her until I feel comfortable doing so.
> 
> During the New Year's holiday she took the kids on vacation with her sister's family and their parents. They were up in a cabin in the mountains for a week. She began calling me when they got home and saying that she really hit bottom on vacation because she had a lot of time to think about the last year and she was also around her family and had to be accountable. I told her I was glad she felt that way and that she needed to go to IC. She agreed and began going on her own in January. During her therapy sessions she revealed to her counselor and later to me that she has been dealing with an Eating Disorder since middle school. She said it comes and goes over the years but ever since our youngest child was born (2.5 years ago) it has escalated. That jives with her eating habits the last couple of years and excessive exercising and weight loss. I told her I was glad she finally admitted her problem and that she should get help. Not for me or us, but for herself and the kids' sake. She began seeing a nutritionist along with a therapist to begin getting things under control.
> 
> One thing I told her early on was that no eating disorder, no drug addiction, etc. was any excuse to have an affair. She agreed and said she knows that was a terrible choice but she felt that I was always going to hold her accountable and so she wanted to run as far away from me as possible. She said she broke it off with OM before Christmas and that she wanted to be alone for a while and think about her choices.
> 
> One thing her therapist and nutritionist both recommended was that she go to an inpatient treatment center for her eating disorder. They feel that the ED is the root cause of her other problems (adderall, alcohol abuse). They feel that if she can learn to cope with things in a healthy way and learn to feel better about herself and not punish herself for eating certain foods, that she can begin to repair her self image. She admitted that she took the adderall in order to suppress her appetite and then she had to take a drink and a downer at night in order to combat the high from the adderall. She would pass out at night and then start all over in the morning.
> 
> This week she began the admission process to an eating disorder treatment center that is about an hour away from where we live. She is scared but she feels that she has to do it in order to get her life back on track. I stressed to her not to do it to try and make me happy, but to get herself healthy so she can be a good mother to our kids no matter what happens between the two of us.
> 
> She told me her biggest obstacle in all of this is accountability. She says that I know her better than anyone and that I will hold her accountable while her friends and even her own parents will not. It took her 10 months to realize that holding someone accountable is not being "controlling." She said she wants to show that she can be accountable, she took a day off of work last week and met with 5 different principals at new schools hoping to start at a new school this fall. She switched her phone number back to our family account (it was still active) so I can monitor her calls/texts. She showed me where she has blocked OM and other "friends" numbers on her phone.
> 
> I appreciate everything she is doing, and I am also very wary of her intentions. I want to believe her, but I also have been burned enough to be skeptical. I will admit that this is the most she has ever done and she seems genuine in her attempt to get clean. I have not given her much from my end as far as emotional attachment or support. I tell her that I will do anything I can for her as long as she continues to get help. Right now she is working with the treatment center and insurance company for admission, and is hoping to get there as soon as next week.
> 
> I feel really good about where I am at with all of this. I believe I have successfully detached from her emotionally and am treating her more as a friend than a wife. I don't know what the future holds, and I still have the ability to file for the final divorce once our year of separation is up. She is very aware of this. My therapist calls it the "velvet hammer" that I can use at anytime if she gets off track. It is nice that I have the power to make the decision now and it is so comforting to know that I will be okay with or without her in my life. When D Day hit I thought I would never be able to live without her- what a difference a year (almost) makes!
> 
> I can't thank you all enough for your advice, support, and kindness through all of this. I am still in a mess, but at least my options are clear now. Time will tell how I feel when the 12 months is up, and a lot will depend on how she does in her inpatient rehab. Hope all is well for you guys. Much love.


I might get banned but you are an idiot if you get your hopes up again. You are saying the same stuff again. I really hope for the best.


----------



## lenzi

warlock07 said:


> I might get banned but you are an idiot if you get your hopes up again. You are saying the same stuff again. I really hope for the best.


Why is this even necessary?

You seem to have a real problem with impulse control. Maybe even some anger management issues.

Why not just say:

"You're rather foolish if you get your hopes up again, given the history it's just not looking very good for successful reconciliation. I'm sorry you let your emotions rule your actions, and you continue to make poor choices rather than moving forward with your life".

No need to be nasty and throw out 3rd grade insults, it's just not helpful.


----------



## wmn1

lenzi said:


> Why is this even necessary?
> 
> You seem to have a real problem with impulse control. Maybe even some anger management issues.
> 
> Why not just say:
> 
> "You're rather foolish if you get your hopes up again, given the history it's just not looking very good for successful reconciliation. I'm sorry you let your emotions rule your actions, and you continue to make poor choices rather than moving forward with your life".
> 
> No need to be nasty and throw out 3rd grade insults, it's just not helpful.


I agree with your quote and the way you put it although I know it was a suggestion from you and not necessarily your view.


----------



## warlock07

lenzi said:


> Why is this even necessary?
> 
> You seem to have a real problem with impulse control. Maybe even some anger management issues.
> 
> Why not just say:
> 
> "You're rather foolish if you get your hopes up again, given the history it's just not looking very good for successful reconciliation. I'm sorry you let your emotions rule your actions, and you continue to make poor choices rather than moving forward with your life".
> 
> No need to be nasty and throw out 3rd grade insults, it's just not helpful.


The irony of your post is palpable. Maybe you can follow your own advice sometimes. How is the tone of your post any different than mine?
And if you think about it, my post was less insulting than your version. 

Did you read his older posts when he attempted R the last time ? Read them as well as the well intentioned advise given back then for a start.


----------



## lenzi

warlock07 said:


> The irony of your post is palpable. Maybe you can follow your own advice sometimes. How is the tone of your post any different than mine?


Because I'm not calling anyone an idiot nor prefacing my post with "I may get banned for saying this".


----------



## carmen ohio

warlock07 said:


> I might get banned but you are an idiot if you get your hopes up again. You are saying the same stuff again. I really hope for the best.





lenzi said:


> Why is this even necessary?
> 
> You seem to have a real problem with impulse control. Maybe even some anger management issues.
> 
> Why not just say:
> 
> "You're rather foolish if you get your hopes up again, given the history it's just not looking very good for successful reconciliation. I'm sorry you let your emotions rule your actions, and you continue to make poor choices rather than moving forward with your life".
> 
> No need to be nasty and throw out 3rd grade insults, it's just not helpful.





warlock07 said:


> The irony of your post is palpable. Maybe you can follow your own advice sometimes. How is the tone of your post any different than mine?
> And if you think about it, my post was less insulting than your version.
> 
> Did you read his older posts when he attempted R the last time ? Read them as well as the well intentioned advise given back then for a start.





lenzi said:


> Because I'm not calling anyone an idiot nor prefacing my post with "I may get banned for saying this".


While I greatly respect both of these posters, warlocks posts are a lot more fun to read. 

And, let's be honest, he's not afraid to say what many of us are thinking.


----------



## lenzi

carmen ohio said:


> While I greatly respect both of these posters, warlocks posts are a lot more fun to read.
> 
> And, let's be honest, he's not afraid to say what many of us are thinking.


So lots of us are thinking some poor guy is an idiot for going back with his cheating wife, and we should be honest and respect warlock for not being afraid to say it?

And as long as the post is fun to read, then it's all good?

I learned something new today!


----------



## karole

Good grief people!


----------



## tom67

karole said:


> Good grief people!


Let's keep it simple
He should be out there living life doing his own thing and like what was said he will have an answer in a few months if she cancels the d or lets it go through.
Even then the ball is in his court.
It sounds to me like he is moving on and she has an uphill climb.


----------



## LongWalk

This is sort of like GutPunch and Ms GP. Sort of.


----------



## Dogbert

Until she conquers her demons through therapy, she is in no condition to be in a committed relationship like marriage. It may take years before she is ready to be a healthy and faithful companion, years that dadof2 could use to move on with his life. He should not place his life on hold for an uncertain outcome.


----------



## warlock07

lenzi said:


> Because I'm not calling anyone an idiot nor prefacing my post with "I may get banned for saying this".


But can you not have phrased it nicer ?  Can you not have disagreed more respectfully instead of calling them 3rd grade insults ?

Of course you felt a certain tone was needed to respond and a few insults were needed. So did I.

This is about dadof2's marriage. Let us not derail with our arguments.

To end it, maybe I did cross a line but it was not an insult for the sake of it. It was just frustration at seeing the same situation repeat again so easily and how easily dadof2 is allowing her to mess his life up one more time. I won't be responding again unless it is a PM.


----------



## lenzi

warlock07 said:


> But can you not have phrased it nicer ?  Can you not have disagreed more respectfully instead of calling them 3rd grade insults ?


Yes I could have.


----------



## carmen ohio

lenzi said:


> So lots of us are thinking some poor guy is an idiot for going back with his cheating wife, and we should be honest and respect warlock for not being afraid to say it?
> 
> And as long as the post is fun to read, then it's all good?
> 
> I learned something new today!


Sorry that you're having a bad day, lenzi. Maybe you should chill until you regain your usual good sense of humor. :scratchhead:


----------



## lenzi

carmen ohio said:


> Sorry that you're having a bad day, lenzi. Maybe you should chill until you regain your usual good sense of humor. :scratchhead:


Only if you agree to take my side and flat leave warlock.


----------



## Tron

Goddamn! She's just gotten out of a 1 year affair with the OM! 

I'm normally a "stick it out and try to make it work" kind of guy, but this one is a no brainer. Get the divorce done and if she has the fortitude make her win you back. 

And for God's sake don't ever remarry her. EVER!

And yes...I am trying very hard to ignore this TJ


----------



## bfree

lenzi said:


> Only if you agree to take my side and flat leave warlock.


Did I read this correctly? Are you trying to get Carmen to cheat on Warlock? For shame!


----------



## lenzi

bfree said:


> Did I read this correctly? Are you trying to get Carmen to cheat on Warlock? For shame!


I was thinking about a cup of coffee.


----------



## wmn1

carmen ohio said:


> While I greatly respect both of these posters, warlocks posts are a lot more fun to read.
> 
> And, let's be honest, he's not afraid to say what many of us are thinking.



:iagree:

plus not many people can tell the different between foolish and idiot. 

I think Dad of 2 is making a mistake thinking that R is feasible. But good luck to hi. I hope it works. I wouldn't want to be him though


----------



## wmn1

bfree said:


> Did I read this correctly? Are you trying to get Carmen to cheat on Warlock? For shame!


medic !!!!!


----------



## lonelyhusband321

Tron said:


> Goddamn! She's just gotten out of a 1 year affair with the OM!
> 
> I'm normally a "stick it out and try to make it work" kind of guy, but this one is a no brainer. *Get the divorce done* and if she has the fortitude make her win you back.
> 
> *And for God's sake don't ever remarry her*. EVER!


Tron - you're probably the last one to go the "pull the pin" route - true?

ABSOLUTELY right here - even giving gracious benefit of the doubt...!!


----------



## bfree

lenzi said:


> I was thinking about a cup of coffee.


Sure...that's what they all say....


----------



## carmen ohio

lenzi said:


> Only if you agree to take my side and flat leave warlock.





bfree said:


> Did I read this correctly? Are you trying to get Carmen to cheat on Warlock? For shame!





lenzi said:


> I was thinking about a cup of coffee.





bfree said:


> Sure...that's what they all say....


I couldn't leave him but I could probably be talked into cheating on him -- for a cup of coffee. At least that's they all say about me.


----------



## lenzi

carmen ohio said:


> I couldn't leave him but I could probably be talked into cheating on him -- for a cup of coffee.


Would you like some cream with that?


----------



## lordmayhem

Nucking Futs said:


> Has she cleared your name of the dv charges?


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

This seems to have been forgotten by many people, including the OP. Just last October, his attorney had proposed that the RO be dropped, and she never did.

Is the RO still in effect or what? 

Remember, this is a WW who has no problem making up false claims of abuse and getting an RO. 

Has she went to the police yet to admit to False Reporting? This seems to have all been swept under the rug.


----------



## jim123

LongWalk said:


> :iagree:


They would be subject to lawsuit if they fired her. She does not have tenure so the board will simply not offer a contract for next year.


----------



## LongWalk

After a while ROs may lapse and become irrelevant. 

I think Dadof2 has left out quite a bit from his update. He didn't explain whether he had promised to wait for her. But the opening of her telephone implies a promise not to see other men. And if she has made such a commitment, then has he, too?

GutPunch did not date while Ms GP was in rehab.

Amy Winehouse didn't make it. Not everybody beats addictions.

re: How it ended with OM
She was supposed take care of his kids. He wanted more from the relationship. Did he discover she was taking pills everyday and then reject her?

I suspect she was incapable of forming strong bond with him. What man can compete with a cycle of uppers and downers?


----------



## lordmayhem

LongWalk said:


> After a while ROs may lapse and become irrelevant.


Never seen any ROs that were not effective less than a year, in some states, its two years. I've detained parties in order to have ROs/POs served and I've arrested those found in violation of it. Until it is removed by a judge, they stay in effect, even when the petitioner is violating it. All she has to do is make a phone call to the police to say he's violating it, and if he's there, he's going to jail. I see this all the time. A woman gets a RO/PO against a guy, they make up, and when she's pissed off again, she calls the police and the guy gets hauled off to jail.

But if he wants to gamble on the hope that she won't call the cops on him, then more power to him. All it takes is a phone call. On the other hand, this is the most unusual RO I've ever seen considering all the contact. Its like its not even a real...


----------



## Nucking Futs

LongWalk said:


> *After a while ROs may lapse and become irrelevant. *
> 
> I think Dadof2 has left out quite a bit from his update. He didn't explain whether he had promised to wait for her. But the opening of her telephone implies a promise not to see other men. And if she has made such a commitment, then has he, too?
> 
> GutPunch did not date while Ms GP was in rehab.
> 
> Amy Winehouse didn't make it. Not everybody beats addictions.
> 
> re: How it ended with OM
> She was supposed take care of his kids. He wanted more from the relationship. Did he discover she was taking pills everyday and then reject her?
> 
> I suspect she was incapable of forming strong bond with him. What man can compete with a cycle of uppers and downers?


If I remember correctly, there was supposed to be a hearing 30 days after the initial RO was granted in which she was supposed to make her case to the judge to continue it and he was supposed to present a defense, but she dropped it before that happened. I was actually referring to the character assassination she engaged in with friends, family, police and courts. As far as I know those lies were allowed to stand and everyone still thinks he's an abusive douche when in actuality she's a lying drug addicted cheater. Apparently Do2 doesn't care that she dragged his name through the mud. 

I wouldn't even speak to her as long as she's not setting the record straight.


----------



## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> If I remember correctly, there was supposed to be a hearing 30 days after the initial RO was granted in which she was supposed to make her case to the judge to continue it and he was supposed to present a defense, but she dropped it before that happened. I was actually referring to the character assassination she engaged in with friends, family, police and courts. As far as I know those lies were allowed to stand and everyone still thinks he's an abusive douche when in actuality she's a lying drug addicted cheater. Apparently Do2 doesn't care that she dragged his name through the mud.
> 
> I wouldn't even speak to her as long as she's not setting the record straight.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Aetygh yes!!!


----------



## GusPolinski

Nucking Futs said:


> If I remember correctly, there was supposed to be a hearing 30 days after the initial RO was granted in which she was supposed to make her case to the judge to continue it and he was supposed to present a defense, but she dropped it before that happened. I was actually referring to the character assassination she engaged in with friends, family, police and courts. As far as I know those lies were allowed to stand and everyone still thinks he's an abusive douche when in actuality she's a lying drug addicted cheater. Apparently Do2 doesn't care that she dragged his name through the mud.
> 
> I wouldn't even speak to her as long as she's not setting the record straight.


IIRC, she instructed her lawyer to drop/not renew the RO once she (initially) agreed to attend MC w/ OP months ago.


----------



## LongWalk

She is very messed up but Dadof2 is working with her for the sake of his kids. By now he doesn't get up in the morning and agonize over what she is doing with other men. It would hurt him to know that she still screwing around but it would just help to block her out further.

TAMers often say that cheaters are by definition bad parents. This is not always true. However, addicts usually are bad parents.


----------



## wmn1

I think cheaters are bad parents too


----------



## lordmayhem

dadof2 said:


> One thing I told her early on was that no eating disorder, no drug addiction, etc. was any excuse to have an affair. She agreed and said she knows that was a terrible choice but she felt that I was always going to hold her accountable and so she wanted to run as far away from me as possible. She said she broke it off with OM before Christmas and that she wanted to be alone for a while and think about her choices.


Indeed, so what about the false domestic violence allegations, demonizing you to her family, friends, and the public (RO). What about all that. It seems you failed to mention this, why is that? Any remorse for having a vindictive and false RO? 

Oh yeah, she doesn't want to be held accountable for that too. She throws you a few crumbs and you're ready to be friends. Speaking of your record, that RO will ALWAYS be there, its not a criminal conviction, but LEOs, judges, prosecutors will all be able to see that on your record, so in the future, it will not be a problem getting another one against you if someone else in the future decides to file one against you because it calls into question your history.


----------



## happyman64

:iagree:

While I agree the RO is a serious issue.

I do not think [email protected] said anything about being friends at this moment in time.

His wife is addicted to drugs. She needs to fix herself before they can have any kind of relationship.

I think Dof2 understands that. And from his view at 50,000 ft. he has detached as best he can.

The proof in the pudding is if his wife finishes rehab, gets clean, ends all her nonsense and plots a course for her future.

It might or might not include Dof2.

I think he is most concerned for his kids and his family. And guess what LM, that includes his WW whether anyone likes it or not.

She is still the mother of his kids. And wanting the best for her just means he wants her to be the best Mom for their children.

Nothing wrong with that IMO. 


Does his STBXW have serious issues that need to be dealt with? Yes.

Will she ever be truly remorseful and try to make amends for her horrible actions? Who knows. 

Her issues need to be dealt with and hopefully she sees that now.

HM


----------



## LongWalk

Agree with HappyMan.

Amongst all the crazy stuff Dadof2's WW there has been two positive things. She realized that Sunday morning breakfast as a family was a goal. She craved it. When she kissed Dadof2 and said she didn't feel any desire, that was honesty. Better that she spoke the truth than lead him on.

One thing about good looking dysfunctional women when whose eyes scream "save me", they can be so dämn alluring. After the hot passion fades, they need new salvation. Unfortunately, drugs, alcohol and affairs fill the hole. Maybe his WW will learn to be happy with pancake Sundays.


----------



## happy as a clam

Dadof2...

I think it would be a HUUUUGE mistake to cut her any slack right now... to welcome her back into your life as a friend, an "ex", a LOVER, whatever.

Stay the course. Go the distance. Finish the job.

THEN decide what role YOU will allow her to play in the future in YOUR life...


----------



## lordmayhem

happyman64 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> While I agree the RO is a serious issue.
> 
> I do not think [email protected] said anything about being friends at this moment in time.
> 
> His wife is addicted to drugs. She needs to fix herself before they can have any kind of relationship.
> 
> I think Dof2 understands that. And from his view at 50,000 ft. he has detached as best he can.
> 
> The proof in the pudding is if his wife finishes rehab, gets clean, ends all her nonsense and plots a course for her future.
> 
> It might or might not include Dof2.
> 
> I think he is most concerned for his kids and his family. And guess what LM, that includes his WW whether anyone likes it or not.
> 
> She is still the mother of his kids. And wanting the best for her just means he wants her to be the best Mom for their children.
> 
> Nothing wrong with that IMO.
> 
> 
> Does his STBXW have serious issues that need to be dealt with? Yes.
> 
> Will she ever be truly remorseful and try to make amends for her horrible actions? Who knows.
> 
> Her issues need to be dealt with and hopefully she sees that now.
> 
> HM


The thing is he's been through this before, just a few months ago. And all the while, she was still with OM. Oh sure, she changed her phone number back to the family plan, as if that actually means anything. They're separated, remember? She can have another phone just as easily.

We've seen this before in other stories, when D is looming, then the sudden half hearted attempts at R. Some WS go full court press even. 

Its called keeping the BS as Plan B. She plays the OP very well as we've seen in the 170+ pages of this thread. She knows how the OP is desperate, so she throws a few crumbs to keep him on the line. 

So we'll see. 

Its interesting how this eating disorder all of a sudden came up, as well as the previously mentioned drug and alcohol use. Now the WS is a sympathetic figure. Interesting twist to the story. 

And this person is a 9th grade teacher? Really? Possible inpatient care? I guess that would be during the summer and not during the school year or they would have to get a substitute teacher to cover the rest of the school year. And it would make it difficult for her to get hired at another school when they find out that she's been in in-patient care for an eating disorder, drug, and alcohol use. Would you hire such a teacher?

My spidey senses have been tingling for a while now.


----------



## IIJokerII

lordmayhem said:


> The thing is he's been through this before, just a few months ago. And all the while, she was still with OM. Oh sure, she changed her phone number back to the family plan, as if that actually means anything. They're separated, remember? She can have another phone just as easily.
> 
> We've seen this before in other stories, when D is looming, then the sudden half hearted attempts at R. Some WS go full court press even.
> 
> Its called keeping the BS as Plan B. She plays the OP very well as we've seen in the 170+ pages of this thread. She knows how the OP is desperate, so she throws a few crumbs to keep him on the line.
> 
> So we'll see.
> 
> Its interesting how this eating disorder all of a sudden came up, as well as the previously mentioned drug and alcohol use. Now the WS is a sympathetic figure. Interesting twist to the story.
> 
> And this person is a 9th grade teacher? Really? Possible inpatient care? I guess that would be during the summer and not during the school year or they would have to get a substitute teacher to cover the rest of the school year. And it would make it difficult for her to get hired at another school when they find out that she's been in in-patient care for an eating disorder, drug, and alcohol use. Would you hire such a teacher?
> 
> My spidey senses have been tingling for a while now.


 Spoken like a true seasoned veteran. Dadof2, the most insidious and effective manner to get a BS back is to make you feel sorry for them. It lowers your guard, it elicits old feelings, masks current issues and takes no effort on her part. 

The best, if not only way to test her out? Deny her kindly and cite the reasons why you are "Emotionally unable" to help her out in anyway. If she accepts this on a respectable manner than there MAY be a hint of authenticity. If this denial is met with anger or similar emotional outburst you drew out the Tape worm of crap by denying her what SHE wanted; Which was you to kowtow to her needs, however big or small.


----------



## Chaparral

IIJokerII said:


> Spoken like a true seasoned veteran. Dadof2, the most insidious and effective manner to get a BS back is to make you feel sorry for them. It lowers your guard, it elicits old feelings, masks current issues and takes no effort on her part.
> 
> The best, if not only way to test her out? Deny her kindly and cite the reasons why you are "Emotionally unable" to help her out in anyway. If she accepts this on a respectable manner than there MAY be a hint of authenticity. If this denial is met with anger or similar emotional outburst you drew out the Tape worm of crap by denying her what SHE wanted; Which was you to kowtow to her needs, however big or small.


Idk. Ultimatums bother me. Depending on the person, the same ultimatum could have a nearly infinite number of responses. For example, one person may beg and plead to be taken back, another proud person may feel they would rather die than crawl on their knees. I'm more afraid of the recently humbled spouse that think they truly deserve to be rejected and simply accept they are just not good enough or deserve to be abandoned.

Does anyone have any experience/knowledge of the two drugs she was taking. Many drugs depress desire and sexual arousal. It was mentioned earlier how she told him, after kissing him, she no longer felt anything for him. I think amphetamine like drugs make people emotionless yet hyper. Cocaine makes men dysfunctional in bed. Its been mentioned here that anti depressants can destroy ones sex drive but there are many examples here of folks having affairs that are on anti depressants.

Anyway, just a thought.


----------



## oneMOreguy

Chaparral said:


> Idk. Ultimatums bother me. Depending on the person, the same ultimatum could have a nearly infinite number of responses. For example, one person may beg and plead to be taken back, another proud person may feel they would rather die than crawl on their knees. I'm more afraid of the recently humbled spouse that think they truly deserve to be rejected and simply accept they are just not good enough or deserve to be abandoned.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience/knowledge of the two drugs she was taking. Many drugs depress desire and sexual arousal. It was mentioned earlier how she told him, after kissing him, she no longer felt anything for him. I think amphetamine like drugs make people emotionless yet hyper. Cocaine makes men dysfunctional in bed. Its been mentioned here that anti depressants can destroy ones sex drive but there are many examples here of folks having affairs that are on anti depressants.
> 
> Anyway, just a thought.


...I was on a form of amphetamine for several years, a few years back, and can attest that it does not diminish the desire for sex......smiling but it does have some effects can make it way too easy to like someone more than is right (like my inappropriate young lady friend).


----------



## farsidejunky

oneMOreguy said:


> ...I was on a form of amphetamine for several years, a few years back, and can attest that it does not diminish the desire for sex......smiling but it does have some effects can make it way too easy to like someone more than is right (like my inappropriate young lady friend).


I can attest to this. Years ago I had a problem with meth. It causes you to find inane things to bond with people over, and least for me, even average females were emotionally intoxicating. 

When no longer on the rails they were back to average again.


----------



## just got it 55

LongWalk said:


> After a while ROs may lapse and become irrelevant.
> 
> I think Dadof2 has left out quite a bit from his update. He didn't explain whether he had promised to wait for her. But the opening of her telephone implies a promise not to see other men. And if she has made such a commitment, then has he, too?
> 
> GutPunch did not date while Ms GP was in rehab.
> 
> Amy Winehouse didn't make it. Not everybody beats addictions.
> 
> re: How it ended with OM
> She was supposed take care of his kids. He wanted more from the relationship. Did he discover she was taking pills everyday and then reject her?
> 
> I suspect she was incapable of forming strong bond with him. What man can compete with a cycle of uppers and downers?


LW points well taken But in my view nothing is revelevent unless DO2 W

1. Pulls the plug on the D
2. Publicly clears his name of DV

I hope for the best I really do

Great sign she is getting help I wish her well for the sake of all

55


----------



## just got it 55

Nucking Futs said:


> If I remember correctly, there was supposed to be a hearing 30 days after the initial RO was granted in which she was supposed to make her case to the judge to continue it and he was supposed to present a defense, but she dropped it before that happened. I was actually referring to the character assassination she engaged in with friends, family, police and courts. As far as I know those lies were allowed to stand and everyone still thinks he's an abusive douche when in actuality she's a lying drug addicted cheater. Apparently Do2 doesn't care that she dragged his name through the mud.
> 
> I wouldn't even speak to her as long as she's not setting the record straight.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

QFT

55


----------



## LongWalk

lenzi said:


> Would you like some cream with that?


No, thank you, but maybe a drop of skimmed milk.


A forum discussion the affects of adderall.

Although sex addiction and hyper sexuality are mentioned, loss of affect seems more relevant. Addicts seem to lose the ability to feel connected to their partners.


----------



## Andy26599

OK, I've not got the time to read over 170 pages of posts, but I'm in the position that the poor bloke in Post 1 is in…in that my wife and I separated (her decision) just after new year…I've been on here previously regarding my relationship with my wife, and the problems we've had...anyway, that came to head and I was asked to leave just after new year...so I've been trying to reconcile, we have 3 young kids, and depsite our problems, I love my wife. However she's been reluctant to engage in any sort of discussions about getting back together, refusing marriage counselling. Anyway, I know she's been messaging a guy she used to work with years back, who she coincidentally met on New Years Eve while I was at home looking after the children...she said they were just friends, and I believed her...

I've since found out that while I had 2 of my 3 kids over to stay at my sisters (I'm currently living back with my parents, but there's no room for me to have the kids) she had this other bloke round to my house (which I still pay the mortgage for, in full, along with utilities, etc) for a chinese, and lied about it, I only found out when I found a load of beer bottles in the recycling bin and confronted her about it. She basically said I was being paranoid, and they were just friends.

This has been going on for about 2 months now, with me wondering where she is going, and who she is going with whenever I go round to see the kids and she goes out. Most of the time, I can corroborate where she is going, but when I'm not there, is he coming round? I don't know.

Last night, she was ordering stuff on Amazon via her phone, and it needed me to sign in...as I was doing that, a message popped up from this other bloke, stupidly, I read it, and others that they'd sent to each other, and it was basically, in a shortened version, about how he loved her naked body, and her replying about him having it any time he wanted, and other stuff that made me feel physically sick to read...I confronted her about it, again, and she said it was just "flirting". I've been out of the dating game for a while now, but that, to me, doesn't seem like flirting, that seems like an affair...she still swears blind that she hasn't even kissed him, but I find this increasingly hard to believe...especially after reading what I read last night...

It's starting to consume my every waking thought...the thought of someone else being intimate with the woman I still love tears me apart, even the thought of her texting some of the things she wrote makes me feel ill...I just dont see how I can ever get away from it...I'm still there most evenings to see the kids, and I have them weekends while she works, so I feel as though I can't escape this, no matter how much I want to...

Part of me wants to get out there, and start picking up women to get revenge, but I'm not in the right place in my head for that, and I still have too much respect for myself, and strangely her, to even contemplate seeing someone else while I'm still married, even though she clearly has no such respect for me...

I'm currently stuck in a cycle of self loathing and have completely lost my confidence and self esteem, and I just can't see a way out of it...Is there a way out of feeling like this?


----------



## Q tip

Andy26599 said:


> OK, I've not got the time to read over 170 pages of posts, but I'm in the position that the poor bloke in Post 1 is inâ€¦in that my wife and I separated (her decision) just after new yearâ€¦I've been on here previously regarding my relationship with my wife, and the problems we've had...anyway, that came to head and I was asked to leave just after new year...so I've been trying to reconcile, we have 3 young kids, and depsite our problems, I love my wife. However she's been reluctant to engage in any sort of discussions about getting back together, refusing marriage counselling. Anyway, I know she's been messaging a guy she used to work with years back, who she coincidentally met on New Years Eve while I was at home looking after the children...she said they were just friends, and I believed her...
> 
> I've since found out that while I had 2 of my 3 kids over to stay at my sisters (I'm currently living back with my parents, but there's no room for me to have the kids) she had this other bloke round to my house (which I still pay the mortgage for, in full, along with utilities, etc) for a chinese, and lied about it, I only found out when I found a load of beer bottles in the recycling bin and confronted her about it. She basically said I was being paranoid, and they were just friends.
> 
> This has been going on for about 2 months now, with me wondering where she is going, and who she is going with whenever I go round to see the kids and she goes out. Most of the time, I can corroborate where she is going, but when I'm not there, is he coming round? I don't know.
> 
> Last night, she was ordering stuff on Amazon via her phone, and it needed me to sign in...as I was doing that, a message popped up from this other bloke, stupidly, I read it, and others that they'd sent to each other, and it was basically, in a shortened version, about how he loved her naked body, and her replying about him having it any time he wanted, and other stuff that made me feel physically sick to read...I confronted her about it, again, and she said it was just "flirting". I've been out of the dating game for a while now, but that, to me, doesn't seem like flirting, that seems like an affair...she still swears blind that she hasn't even kissed him, but I find this increasingly hard to believe...especially after reading what I read last night...
> 
> It's starting to consume my every waking thought...the thought of someone else being intimate with the woman I still love tears me apart, even the thought of her texting some of the things she wrote makes me feel ill...I just dont see how I can ever get away from it...I'm still there most evenings to see the kids, and I have them weekends while she works, so I feel as though I can't escape this, no matter how much I want to...
> 
> Part of me wants to get out there, and start picking up women to get revenge, but I'm not in the right place in my head for that, and I still have too much respect for myself, and strangely her, to even contemplate seeing someone else while I'm still married, even though she clearly has no such respect for me...
> 
> I'm currently stuck in a cycle of self loathing and have completely lost my confidence and self esteem, and I just can't see a way out of it...Is there a way out of feeling like this?


copy and paste this to a new thread that you create.

then, read MMSLP for starters.


----------



## missymrs80

Dadof2, i wouldn't even attempt to R unless she enters a 12 step program after leaving rehab. Either way I suggest al-anon for you. If you leave her you are still at risk for entering into another relationship w/ another addict. Most say "i would never...." And then end up picking the a similar partner. 

In my experience, eating d/o's are one of the most difficult things to treat.


----------



## bandit.45

*FVCK A DUCK IN A CVNTY BUCKET!!!!*


There....

That's a lack of impulse control.


----------



## Augusto

Dadof2....does she know about your college reunion romp?


----------



## bandit.45

Augusto said:


> Dadof2....does she know about your college reunion romp?


Oh yeah. Forgot about that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Augusto

bandit.45 said:


> Oh yeah. Forgot about that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well if she is being transparent, he needs to be as well. She probably thinks he was faithful and hoped for a complete R the whole time for all we know. This should not be rug swept either. Both have to play the game. Even though she needs to do some heavy lifting.


----------



## Chaparral

What he did during the separation she insisted on is none of her business ever. As a matter of fact it would be better if she thinks he did do something but have no confirmation. She needs to know she is not his only option.


----------



## tryingpatience

Through all this how have the kids been? Keep showing them strength. All of them.


----------



## dadof2

The kids have been resilient. I know it is affecting them in certain ways, mainly the fact that they have little stability right now. They have become very close to each other and understand that mommy and daddy are having some trouble right now.

Their mom checked into treatment this week for her eating disorder and related issues. I am taking them to go see her tomorrow for the first time since she checked in.


----------



## harrybrown

I hope she gets help with all of her issues.

Sorry you and the kids are going thru this.

I hope she is not giving you a false R.


----------



## tom67

harrybrown said:


> I hope she gets help with all of her issues.
> 
> Sorry you and the kids are going thru this.
> 
> I hope she is not giving you a false R.


We all hope so.
Don't know if it was a higher power or whatever but I'm glad she is getting help and came out of the fog.


----------



## happyman64

That is the key.

She is getting help and doing it on her own and of her own free will.

keep encouraging her Dof2.

To be a better person. A healthier person.

Because without the basics she will not be a good coparent until her head and health are straightened out.

HM


----------



## Mr Blunt

If she has agreed to all the provisions of the divorce that you want then go through with the D. *She may change her mind in the future.* After the divorce, if she continues to do the things that you want and want you back, and then you at least know that she does not want you for only your money. You can marry her again in the future when you are much more sure that her change is permanent.

Your children will have a lot more security when you are more sure that your wife is a much more healed woman than right now. Security for your children will also be increased when they see that their parents love, trust, and admire each other more, with or without being remarried. 

*Dadof2
What is your level of love, trust, and admiration for your wife right now?*


----------



## Nucking Futs

Mr Blunt said:


> *If she has agreed to all the provisions of the divorce that you want then go through with the D.* *She may change her mind in the future.* After the divorce, if she continues to do the things that you want and want you back, and then you at least know that she does not want you for only your money. You can marry her again in the future when you are much more sure that her change is permanent.
> 
> Your children will have a lot more security when you are more sure that your wife is a much more healed woman than right now. Security for your children will also be increased when they see that their parents love, trust, and admire each other more, with or without being remarried.
> 
> *Dadof2
> What is your level of love, trust, and admiration for your wife right now?*


Once again I remind everyone that _she_ initiated the divorce. Dadof2 literally has no choice about stopping it, it's entirely up to her. 

She may be making all the right noises about R, but if she's not withdrawing the petition...


----------



## bandit.45

Can he file his own petition? With the same stipulations and then push it through?


----------



## Augusto

Chaparral said:


> What he did during the separation she insisted on is none of her business ever. As a matter of fact it would be better if she thinks he did do something but have no confirmation. She needs to know she is not his only option.


I know she initiated everything that happened. However for HIM it might be best to tell his wife. Otherwise pattern could develop with him. I am not judging him and I am not saying he is going to go out and do the same things she did. I am just saying keeping it a secret from her may not be the best thing for him to be fully committed with no secrets. I believe a successful R must be a 2 way street not just the one that strayed. It shows true character. It proves that the betrayed still wants to show there is nothing to hide ever. If you strayed and you recommitted to the marriage and the betrayed one never told you about a person they fvcked while separated, wouldn't that send you a signal that you cannot trust that person anymore?


----------



## happyman64

What R?

His wife is getting inhouse treatment for an eating disorder/prescription drug dependency.

Before any R could ever takes place or it takes place, his wife needs to win her battle with her own demons.

And Dof2 most likely needs to see her keep her word and get over her addictions successfully.

I'm sure he will update us when he is ready.


----------



## GusPolinski

Cross-posting from DCM's "Wife and Coworker" thread...



dadof2 said:


> I have been through hell and back in my situation and I know you want her to see things how they are. But she is doing anything she can to justify her actions and make you the bad guy so she has a "reason" to look elsewhere.
> 
> Detach, detach, detach. Keep contact to a bare minimum and only about legal issues. Don't let her sweep you into a deep conversation. There can be a time for that later if she shows remorse. Right now she is trying to manipulate you and get what she wants to feel better about herself. Your actions will show her that you have really begun to move on. This will either flip the switch and she will see what she is losing or it won't. *It took my WW a full year before she hit bottom and saw what she is throwing away. I had already moved on and accepted the fact that we were divorcing. Now we are in the baby stages of R.*


How goes it, dadof2? Is she back in the house? Has she put the divorce on hold?

Glad to hear that you're doing well.


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Cross-posting from DCM's "Wife and Coworker" thread...
> 
> 
> 
> How goes it, dadof2? Is she back in the house? Has she put the divorce on hold?
> 
> Glad to hear that you're doing well.


She is still in treatment at least as of about a week and a half ago.


----------



## dadof2

GusPolinski said:


> Cross-posting from DCM's "Wife and Coworker" thread...
> 
> 
> 
> How goes it, dadof2? Is she back in the house? Has she put the divorce on hold?
> 
> Glad to hear that you're doing well.


Hey Gus, I'm doing well. Yesterday was the 1 year anniversary of DDay for me. I kept myself busy with yardwork etc, so I didn't dwell on things too much.

As far as divorce/reconciliation, we are working on things together. She has been in an inpatient treatment center for her eating disorder for the last 3 weeks. We meet twice a week for counseling sessions in house, and she also meets with her parents once a week for counseling. She seems to be making good progress and we have spent more time talking in the last 3 weeks than we have in the last 2 years. She is scheduled to be released next Friday if she continues to do well in treatment. She is totally adderal free and has not had a drink in 3 weeks since she entered treatment. She has also not been able to exercise and has been steadily gaining weight to get back into a healthy range.

As far as stopping the divorce, my lawyer advised me that it would be smart to let the one year of separation pass (2 more weeks to go) and then we would have one year to file for final divorce or terminate the petition. She would terminate her petition today if I wanted her to, but I didn't want to be this close to a year and then terminate it and have to start all over if the R proved to be false.

I have talked to my lawyer about my options. She said we can divorce and then remarry if things work out, or we can terminate the petition once the year is up. My lawyer suggested that we let the year separation continue, then file a post nuptial agreement before she moves back in. She said this is cheaper than a divorce/remarry with pre nup, and it will be blessed by both attorneys and be just as binding as a prenup. My lawyer will put clauses in there to protect me and my business assets as separate property in case of a divorce.

My WW is on board and said she will sign anything I ask her to. The conversations we have in counseling show that she now has a grasp on how devastating her actions were. To be honest, I still don't know how I feel about her intimately because of the affair. But she has done everything above and beyond to show that she is remorseful and wants to be a part of our family again. At some point it will be a leap of faith for me to ask her to move back in. Then the hard work will start of us rebuilding trust and building a new marriage that we can both be happy in. Through the last year of counseling and learning about myself and the divorce process, I am confident that I will be able to make the right decision.


----------



## tom67

My WW is on board and said she will sign anything I ask her to. The conversations we have in counseling show that she now has a grasp on how devastating her actions were. To be honest, I still don't know how I feel about her intimately because of the affair. But she has done everything above and beyond to show that she is remorseful and wants to be a part of our family again. At some point it will be a leap of faith for me to ask her to move back in. Then the hard work will start of us rebuilding trust and building a new marriage that we can both be happy in. Through the last year of counseling and learning about myself and the divorce process, I am confident that I will be able to make the right decision.

She can wait for you now it will take time.
If she is genuine she will understand and help you with this.
It's good to hear her parents are getting therapy hopefully the enabling comes to an end.
I know I'm jumping the gun here, IF she moves back in take all the liquor out of the house and give to friends or just throw it out.


----------



## Clay2013

I think your doing a great job of keeping things clear in your mind. I can imagine its hard to have your heart up in the air like that. Keep doing the great job your doing. When the time is right I am sure you will make the right decisions. 

It is so nice to see someone taking charge of there life and doing the right things. These sites can be so depressing at times. 

Good for you.

Clay


----------



## just got it 55

Dad you have your sh!t together

I Like it

Carry on young man

55


----------



## Roselyn

Carry through with your divorce as your lawyer advised you to do. After reading your posts and read what your wife had done, I don't believe that you should invite her to move back in. She is girlfriend material not a wife material.


----------



## azteca1986

dadof2 said:


> The conversations we have in counseling show that she now has a grasp on how devastating her actions were.


Right. Couldn't figure that our on her own then.

Has she done anything about those trumped up charges in her divorce petition? Will there be any repercussions for you in the future, dadof2?


----------



## bandit.45

Roselyn said:


> Carry through with your divorce as your lawyer advised you to do. After reading your posts and read what your wife had done, I don't believe that you should invite her to move back in. She is girlfriend material not a wife material.


I agree. 

Dad if she is amenable, I would ask her to live on her own for a while, let the D go through, and then if she still wants to get back together the two of you can attend MC and maybe date. 

Then you can view her from high altitude and watch her actions, without being on the legal hook...because the marriage has already terminated. It takes the pressure off you and puts the onus on her to prove she is sincere. 

But you need to make her earn the right to have her family back intact. Don't just give it back to her, no matter how much you may want to.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

I remember your post from a while back about your wife said there was "no spark' she had for you.

Has this ever come up or been addressed? I would hate to feel (and in someways still do experience) a partner who sees me as the "logical" and "safe/comfort" choice, but isn't the one to get their engines revved up.


----------



## farsidejunky

You sound healthy, brother. Awesome!


----------



## happyman64

I wouldn't push for a divorce right now.

Let the full year of separation go through.

If your wife is truly remorseful then the real test will be her agreeing that the choice to R or D is yours to make.

I hope she gets her head on straight.
She Stays off the drugs and booze.
Desires to become part of one family again.
Agrees to a Postnup for your business an property.
Wants to R and move back home.

To me those are all signs of a wayward wife that is truly remorseful and is looking to be with you long term.

IMO that is wife material and not GF material.....

Take your time Dof2.

And weigh your options until you are comfortable with your decision.

HM


----------



## bandit.45

CASE_Sensitive said:


> I remember your post from a while back about your wife said there was "no spark' she had for you.
> 
> Has this ever come up or been addressed? *I would hate to feel (and in someways still do experience) a partner who sees me as the "logical" and "safe/comfort" choice, but isn't the one to get their engines revved up*.


This is a good point. She can give you every good reason in the world why you should get back together with her, but this is THE reason.


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

Are the kids in therapy? If not, I strongly urge you to get them to see a good children's therapist. Also, consult one before deciding to invite your ww back into the home.

I also agree with others, if she was telling the truth about no spark vis-a-vis you, then I wouldn't reconcile.

Best wishes


----------



## Chaparral

I'm assuming the kids have been with you while she has been away?

Good luck Do2. Keep listening to your gut. Be aware things may simply be past the point you can get your feelings back. It took me two years to figure that out. I do not regret taking the time to make the right decision for me.


----------



## LongWalk

What happened to her teaching job?


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
I feel you owe your family every chance to survive as such. I know you have been burned before and it does seem to be a repeat of circumstances but this is different in as much as your WW has never taken these drastic steps that were necessary to really fix things. It may be indicative of true sincerity.

This seems to me to one of the rare instances wherein the WS actually shows signs of desperation and is willing to act. I can think of only a handful of others. It is, of course, still dependent on your ability to R and your desire to do so but if she was willing to go through the process to get clean then I feel she is making a significant effort.

I would certainly allow the separation period to complete thereby allowing you the one year to petition for and finalize the D. If in that year she shows all the signs of a repentant, transformed wife then you can make the call as your heart allows. As for living together, I feel it would best benefit your children and possibly you as well to at least have their father and now clean mother together and under one roof, if not in one room. During that year you must be diligent in your observation and not allow things to revert back to their previous condition. If she shows signs of reversion that are not exposed to you immediately and dealt with then you can D and be done with it.

I am not saying that she deserves it or that you owe it to her but I do feel it would be in your family's best interest to see if this last desperate act on her part is genuine and indicative of true desperation to save her family/marriage. Absent the drugs and alcohol she may be the wife/mother your family needs. Good fortune to you.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> I have talked to my lawyer about my options. She said we can divorce and then remarry if things work out, or we can terminate the petition once the year is up. My lawyer suggested that we let the year separation continue, then file a post nuptial agreement before she moves back in. She said this is cheaper than a divorce/remarry with pre nup, and it will be blessed by both attorneys and be just as binding as a prenup. My lawyer will put clauses in there to protect me and my business assets as separate property in case of a divorce.
> 
> My WW is on board and said she will sign anything I ask her to.


Dadof2
You now have the opportunity to make your situation a LOT better! You have a great attorney that has given you great advice and you have a WW that says that she will sign anything. Take her up on that as that will be another great test of her remorse and wanting to help you, your children and her.

Do not pass up this opportunity but follow your attorney's advise and test your wife by giving her legals docs to sign.* You want to protect yourself and find out if your wife is really going to change. Now is your time to take a big step in that direction*.


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> I wouldn't push for a divorce right now.
> 
> Let the full year of separation go through.
> 
> If your wife is truly remorseful then the real test will be her agreeing that the choice to R or D is yours to make.
> 
> I hope she gets her head on straight.
> She Stays off the drugs and booze.
> Desires to become part of one family again.
> Agrees to a Postnup for your business an property.
> Wants to R and move back home.
> 
> To me those are all signs of a wayward wife that is truly remorseful and is looking to be with you long term.
> 
> IMO that is wife material and not GF material.....
> 
> Take your time Dof2.
> 
> And weigh your options until you are comfortable with your decision.
> 
> HM


and

Dadof2
You now have the opportunity to make your situation a LOT better! You have a great attorney that has given you great advice and you have a WW that says that she will sign anything. Take her up on that as that will be another great test of her remorse and wanting to help you, your children and her.

Do not pass up this opportunity but follow your attorney's advise and test your wife by giving her legals docs to sign. You want to protect yourself and find out if your wife is really going to change. Now is your time to take a big step in that direction.

I like both.
Keep it up my man.


----------



## harrybrown

Dadoftwo,

Hoping that you are having a good week and that your kids are doing better.

Hope good things for you in the future.

Are things any better?


----------



## jim123

Dadof2,

She has been a step or two ahead of you. One way to contest a prenup is the agreement was signed under duress. What your wife is going through right now stands a good chance of being duress.

Be careful, stay strong.


----------



## tom67

jim123 said:


> Dadof2,
> 
> She has been a step or two ahead of you. One way to contest a prenup is the agreement was signed under duress. What your wife is going through right now stands a good chance of being duress.
> 
> Be careful, stay strong.


Very good point.


----------



## GusPolinski

jim123 said:


> Dadof2,
> 
> She has been a step or two ahead of you. One way to contest a prenup is the agreement was signed under duress. What your wife is going through right now stands a good chance of being duress.
> 
> Be careful, stay strong.


I'm not sure how being under duress now would aid her in contesting a prenup that she signed years ago...?

Or did you mean postnup?


----------



## jim123

GusPolinski said:


> I'm not sure how being under duress now would aid her in contesting a prenup that she signed years ago...?
> 
> Or did you mean postnup?


I meant postnup.

We are looking at another Dday thread. She will cheat again. 

The WW is in a very bad position going into a D.


----------



## dadof2

jim123 said:


> Dadof2,
> 
> She has been a step or two ahead of you. One way to contest a prenup is the agreement was signed under duress. What your wife is going through right now stands a good chance of being duress.
> 
> Be careful, stay strong.



Thanks for the advice. Even though she has agreed to sign anything I put under her nose, my lawyer put language in there saying she is signing under her own free will, etc. and we are asking her lawyer to sign off on it as well just to show that it is on the up and up. I feel good about the postnup, and right now I feel good about her being genuinely remorseful. Obviously only time will tell how genuine.

She has a job interview today in another school district, hopefully this will be a fresh start for her.


----------



## LongWalk

Nice to have a new start in the Spring. 

Did you ever get a true account of her past behavior, not just the affair but her drift away from you. 

If you go to surviving infidelity's forum for wayward spouses trying R, you can read about former WW who are struggling to save their marriages.

There are women who love their husbands, calling them great guys while admitting that sexually they are not attracted to them or they found the OM more exciting. There are also those who reconnect.

Those former wayward threads may help you understand what your wife is going through.


----------



## turnera

What about the RO? Has she amended for that?


----------



## jim123

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for the advice. Even though she has agreed to sign anything I put under her nose, my lawyer put language in there saying she is signing under her own free will, etc. and we are asking her lawyer to sign off on it as well just to show that it is on the up and up. I feel good about the postnup, and right now I feel good about her being genuinely remorseful. Obviously only time will tell how genuine.
> 
> She has a job interview today in another school district, hopefully this will be a fresh start for her.


The attorney can say the contract is legally correct, the attorney is not a mental health professional who can evaluate the mental state of the postnup when it is signed.


----------



## LongWalk

The RO was dropped a long time ago.

I think the key thing is will she begin to find happiness in ordinary life. If she feels numb and uninterested, their marriage will be an unhappy one from which one of them must flee.

Right now she may want to the feeling of security that Dadof2 provides but that is not necessarily enough for him. Without passion what's the point?


----------



## Nucking Futs

LongWalk said:


> The RO was dropped a long time ago.
> 
> I think the key thing is will she begin to find happiness in ordinary life. If she feels numb and uninterested, their marriage will be an unhappy one from which one of them must flee.
> 
> Right now she may want to the feeling of security that Dadof2 provides but that is not necessarily enough for him. Without passion what's the point?


The RO was dropped in a legal sense but so far her lies have been allowed to stand. She needs to clear his name with everyone she lied to about him.


----------



## Chaparral

dadof2 said:


> Thanks for the advice. Even though she has agreed to sign anything I put under her nose, my lawyer put language in there saying she is signing under her own free will, etc. and we are asking her lawyer to sign off on it as well just to show that it is on the up and up. I feel good about the postnup, and right now I feel good about her being genuinely remorseful. Obviously only time will tell how genuine.
> 
> She has a job interview today in another school district, hopefully this will be a fresh start for her.


How do you think her rehab is going. Is she going to be able to function drug free? Have you noticed any changes in her day to day behavior?


----------



## turnera

LongWalk said:


> The RO was dropped a long time ago.
> 
> I think the key thing is will she begin to find happiness in ordinary life. If she feels numb and uninterested, their marriage will be an unhappy one from which one of them must flee.
> 
> Right now she may want to the feeling of security that Dadof2 provides but that is not necessarily enough for him. Without passion what's the point?


I know it was dropped. I asked what she's done to make up for the damage it caused. Personally, I couldn't even TALK to her again until she's gone around to every single person they know and admitted that she did it while she was cheating and did it just to screw him over.

Without such an action, she is still a coward and still has no business being in a relationship with you.

Has she done this?


----------



## LongWalk

I agree with you, Turnera. If Dadof2 requires that, she come clean to family at the very least by stating that she cheated, abused drugs and alcohol and slandered him. This would be humiliating but it would also force her to respect him more. She has to see him for who he is – a strong person. That is a person she can commit to emotionally. A spouse who allows the cheater to rugsweep will not be respected.

She is emerging from a nightmare, but it was never just her nightmare she spread it round.


----------



## drifting on

I would have her come clean to the courts that it was lies to obtain the RO. Could lead to future trouble for her, but in the future the court and judges would know of her perjury with Dof2.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## convert

yes if I can remember right she put the RO on dadof2 after he went to the bar she was hanging out with her girlfriends and the *OM*; pulled her out to take her home.

So, the RO was used so she could "DATE" freely without out her husband interrupting her and it worked


----------



## just got it 55

turnera said:


> I know it was dropped. I asked what she's done to make up for the damage it caused. Personally, I couldn't even TALK to her again until she's gone around to every single person they know and admitted that she did it while she was cheating and did it just to screw him over.
> 
> Without such an action, she is still a coward and still has no business being in a relationship with you.
> 
> Has she done this?


:iagree:

FWIW I have never backed off this point and will always push this point 

Until you have remody for this any R is hollow

55


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> I know it was dropped. I asked what she's done to make up for the damage it caused. Personally, I couldn't even TALK to her again until she's gone around to every single person they know and admitted that she did it while she was cheating and did it just to screw him over.
> 
> Without such an action, she is still a coward and still has no business being in a relationship with you.
> 
> Has she done this?


:iagree:

Abso-fvcking-lutely...

I too am very dubious, but Dad is a guy who sort of sets his own path and follows it. 

Dad just do yourself a favor: do not rush this reconcilliation. In fact, make no promises to her. None. Tell her you will give her a certain time period to show you she is all in and willing to do the hard work, because up until now it seems she has been all talk. 

And I'm not just talking about her attitude...

Look at her actions every day and objectively take stock of what she is doing to better herself. Being a good mom, going to treatment, being nice to you, having sex with you, etc. are all givens. Ask yourself what she is specifically doing to heal the marriage, reestablish her personal boundaries and affair-proof the relationship. 

You post so seldom that we have no way of judging what is going on with you. I'm going to call you "Turnip" unless you start posting more often.


----------



## happyman64

:iagree:

And Dof2 might be a turnip but he is a cautious one.

I do not want to speak for him and I'm sure he will update us in good time when he feels he has an update.

His wife has multiple issues going on between self esteem, substance abuse and the infidelity was just the icing on the cake.

Hopefully she continues to work on her issues and the woman he married slowly emerges over time.

How much time he gives her is up to him.

HM


----------



## materesa

Here goes a stupid advise: write her a letter, you don't have to give it to her but if you write what your feelings are and your frustration to her, she will get the message. And you will get it out of your chest. Write as many letters as you want and burn them. Good luck to you. Things will get better and you will find someone who is a much much better person than your ex is♥


----------



## dadof2

bandit.45 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Abso-fvcking-lutely...
> 
> I too am very dubious, but Dad is a guy who sort of sets his own path and follows it.
> 
> Dad just do yourself a favor: do not rush this reconcilliation. In fact, make no promises to her. None. Tell her you will give her a certain time period to show you she is all in and willing to do the hard work, because up until now it seems she has been all talk.
> 
> And I'm not just talking about her attitude...
> 
> Look at her actions every day and objectively take stock of what she is doing to better herself. Being a good mom, going to treatment, being nice to you, having sex with you, etc. are all givens. Ask yourself what she is specifically doing to heal the marriage, reestablish her personal boundaries and affair-proof the relationship.
> 
> You post so seldom that we have no way of judging what is going on with you. I'm going to call you "Turnip" unless you start posting more often.



Haha yeah I am not posting as much these days but I do frequent the forums every few days. I am busy working on myself and my marriage, and my WW is doing the same. We are in MC once a week, and she goes to IC and a nutritionist once a week as well. All 3 counselors report back to her counselors at the hospital where she went for inpatient treatment. She had a job interview last week in a new school district that looks promising, and it will be great for her to bring our kids to school rather than drop them off at daycare and wait for the bus.

As far as the RO goes, she dropped that way back in August. In January when we began communicating again, one of the first things I did was ask her to come with me to her parents house so she could come clean. She told them about the affair, about the lies, and the false RO. Her mom even asked her point blank- "Has Dof2 ever hit you?' and she answered "no." We have also sat down with my family and had the same conversation. 

She has been great around the house. More than pulling her weight and then some. Obviously time will tell if she stays the course. I know it is easy to do it for a short time and then we may fall back into the same behaviors. I have my guard up constantly and when we are in MC I bring up things that make me uncomfortable or triggers I have from the A. She is open to talk about whatever I need, no matter how uncomfortable.

I still have my bad days. Sometimes I can go a day or two and it seems like everything is great, then other days I feel like a chump who took back his cheating wife. It is still a rollercoaster, but I think we are on the right path. Our kids are very happy to have us all under one roof again.


----------



## Borntohang

Dad, I'm sooo hopeful for you! (I think you have a wonderful grasp of what it will take.) You know your wife better than anyone! I'm praying you and your kids!


----------



## tom67

Borntohang said:


> Dad, I'm sooo hopeful for you! (I think you have a wonderful grasp of what it will take.) You know your wife better than anyone! I'm praying you and your kids!


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

One day at a time.:smthumbup:


----------



## dadof2

Borntohang said:


> Dad, I'm sooo hopeful for you! (*I think you have a wonderful grasp of what it will take.*) You know your wife better than anyone! I'm praying you and your kids!


I learned what it will take from all of the great information in these threads. I am so happy I found this site when I did. It has been a great source of support and the occasional 2x4 when needed! Seriously, I probably would have eventually come around on my own, but all of the info I got from everyone here really helped me "alpha up" and take charge of myself. I will always be grateful for that.


----------



## harrybrown

Has she stopped the D and given you a timeline of the A?

Has she been tested for stds? She told you that she did not feel anything when you kissed her after she had been with the OM.

Has she stopped all contact with all OMs?

What is she doing to make sure she does not do this again to you and the kids?

Hoping good things for you, and that she is not giving you a false R.


----------



## LongWalk

I trust she likes kissing again.


----------



## happyman64

> take charge of myself


Congratulations Dof2.

You found the secret to being happy as an individual and hopefully your wife will get it and your children learn this key to being "ok".

You now are in control of your destiny.

HM


----------



## workindad

OP- best wishes to you and your family. Thanks for posting a very uplifting and promising follow-up. I have high hopes for you and your family and am toasting to your success with my friend Sam Adams.

Best
WD


----------



## turnera

dadof2 said:


> As far as the RO goes, she dropped that way back in August. In January when we began communicating again, one of the first things I did was ask her to come with me to her parents house so she could come clean. She told them about the affair, about the lies, and the false RO. Her mom even asked her point blank- "Has Dof2 ever hit you?' and she answered "no." We have also sat down with my family and had the same conversation.


Are those four people the only people who knew about the RO?


----------



## LongWalk

At one time the RO was a big issue. Now the questions are more about her mental life. Is she returning to the family because it is plan B?

Does she believe that she can be happy and fulfilled with Dadof2?

Does she believe that Dadof2 can forgive her and love her?

She really needs to consider herself worthy of being in a good relationship.


----------



## MattMatt

Get your lawyer to put a formal notification in your daily and weekly papers pointing out that the RO was obtained under false pretences and has now been withdrawn.

And you then send a copy of this notice to everyone she lied to.

This might cause her embarrassment? Oh. That'd be sad. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Augusto

MattMatt said:


> Get your lawyer to put a formal notification in your daily and weekly papers pointing out that the RO was obtained under false pretences and has now been withdrawn.
> 
> And you then send a copy of this notice to everyone she lied to.
> 
> This might cause her embarrassment? Oh. That'd be sad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like this but this will be one step at a time for them.


----------



## drifting on

dadof2

Just food for thought but restraining orders are very easily obtained especially when alleging domestic violence. This is a mark against you whether true or not, and during legal proceedings could harm your case. I would have your lawyer draft papers that the RO was obtained by falsifying a court document. Basically have her sign that she committed perjury in obtaining the RO. This exonerated you in the future and also discredits with a reasonable doubt any new allegations that she brings forward. Some say I may be pushing towards being vengeful but I am simply trying to protect you in the event her actions are less then honorary. Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

drifting on said:


> dadof2
> 
> Just food for thought but restraining orders are very easily obtained especially when alleging domestic violence. This is a mark against you whether true or not, and during legal proceedings could harm your case. I would have your lawyer draft papers that the RO was obtained by falsifying a court document. Basically have her sign that she committed perjury in obtaining the RO. This exonerated you in the future and also discredits with a reasonable doubt any new allegations that she brings forward. Some say I may be pushing towards being vengeful but I am simply trying to protect you in the event her actions are less then honorary. Best of luck to you.


THIS! This isn't about y'all's relationship. This is about how the RO is going to affect your life.

My stepmother got a bunch of women to sign a letter saying my husband was abusive. We got called into CPS and they dismissed the case. I told the CPS lady I knew who made the claim; told her about my evil stepmother. She said she couldn't verify who made the claim, but if it were her, she'd be putting a lawsuit against the stepmother to stop her from speaking about this any more; I didn't because I didn't want to lose my dad (I ended up losing him over it anyway).

BUT it didn't matter anyway. One of the ladies who signed the false letter (who didn't even know us) lived in our neighborhood. She started telling people about the abusive guy in the neighborhood. It started spreading. It didn't matter if the case was dropped; this was women's favorite thing to do: gossip. It morphed from abusing his daughter to molesting his daughter. Then to molesting a BUNCH of kids. I remember sitting at our neighborhood's annual meeting, and one man stood up and said '_we KNOW there's a child molester here, and we're gonna find him_!' My H and I just sat there and looked at each other, stunned.

One woman on my street made it her mission to approach every family that moved into our neighborhood and warn them away from us. She ended up moving to a different street. After I approached her and told her the truth she kept doing it. It made her 'special' to get to be the one to warn people. By the time we moved all the way across town to get away from it, people pulled their kids out of the pool when we went there. H and our DD were told point blank they would not be allowed to go camping with the YMCA's Indian Princess group. We had to threaten to sue the Y; they put her into a different group where no one knew her. We had people try to run us off from the annual Halloween hayride. TEACHERS were coming up to the mother of our DD's ONE last friend at school and telling her to stop letting her see our DD; and the principal of the school - who lived next door to us - refused to do anything about it. In the end, kids started coming up to DD in 6th grade and asking her what kinds of things her dad made her for him (in bed). They heard this crap from their parents. She had no friends at school; she went from dozens of friends in 3rd grade to NO friend in 6th grade. That's when we moved.

If we would have gotten a lawyer and tamped this down, and shown righteous indignation, people MIGHT have believed us. But because we said nothing, because we didn't fight it, people were all too ready to believe it.

In the end, we went from no debt to $150,000 in debt from having to move. I had to give up my dream job at NASA because I just HAD to find a job that paid more. It's been a nightmare for us, all because we wanted to be 'nice' about it. Just like you. We wanted to keep it in the family, just like you.

THIS is why you need to pursue this, before it's too late.


----------



## drifting on

turnera

That is absolutely horrific, I am so sorry you had to go through something so terrible. It does go to show that the power of gossip is strong and the second person to come forward has a huge uphill battle to fight to clear their name. So many people in this world (me included) assume guilt and then have innocence proven, but you'll still have a small piece that will remain doubt. It is no longer innocent until proven guilty in this country, it's guilty until proven innocent and even then.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

turnera said:


> THIS! This isn't about y'all's relationship. This is about how the RO is going to affect your life.
> 
> My stepmother got a bunch of women to sign a letter saying my husband was abusive. We got called into CPS and they dismissed the case. I told the CPS lady I knew who made the claim; told her about my evil stepmother. She said she couldn't verify who made the claim, but if it were her, she'd be putting a lawsuit against the stepmother to stop her from speaking about this any more; I didn't because I didn't want to lose my dad (I ended up losing him over it anyway).
> 
> BUT it didn't matter anyway. One of the ladies who signed the false letter (who didn't even know us) lived in our neighborhood. She started telling people about the abusive guy in the neighborhood. It started spreading. It didn't matter if the case was dropped; this was women's favorite thing to do: gossip. It morphed from abusing his daughter to molesting his daughter. Then to molesting a BUNCH of kids. I remember sitting at our neighborhood's annual meeting, and one man stood up and said '_we KNOW there's a child molester here, and we're gonna find him_!' My H and I just sat there and looked at each other, stunned.
> 
> One woman on my street made it her mission to approach every family that moved into our neighborhood and warn them away from us. She ended up moving to a different street. After I approached her and told her the truth she kept doing it. It made her 'special' to get to be the one to warn people. By the time we moved all the way across town to get away from it, people pulled their kids out of the pool when we went there. H and our DD were told point blank they would not be allowed to go camping with the YMCA's Indian Princess group. We had to threaten to sue the Y; they put her into a different group where no one knew her. We had people try to run us off from the annual Halloween hayride. TEACHERS were coming up to the mother of our DD's ONE last friend at school and telling her to stop letting her see our DD; and the principal of the school - who lived next door to us - refused to do anything about it. In the end, kids started coming up to DD in 6th grade and asking her what kinds of things her dad made her for him (in bed). They heard this crap from their parents. She had no friends at school; she went from dozens of friends in 3rd grade to NO friend in 6th grade. That's when we moved.
> 
> If we would have gotten a lawyer and tamped this down, and shown righteous indignation, people MIGHT have believed us. But because we said nothing, because we didn't fight it, people were all too ready to believe it.
> 
> In the end, we went from no debt to $150,000 in debt from having to move. I had to give up my dream job at NASA because I just HAD to find a job that paid more. It's been a nightmare for us, all because we wanted to be 'nice' about it. Just like you. We wanted to keep it in the family, just like you.
> 
> THIS is why you need to pursue this, before it's too late.


:iagree:


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> BUT it didn't matter anyway. One of the ladies who signed the false letter (who didn't even know us) lived in our neighborhood. She started telling people about the abusive guy in the neighborhood. It started spreading. It didn't matter if the case was dropped; this was women's favorite thing to do: gossip. It morphed from abusing his daughter to molesting his daughter. Then to molesting a BUNCH of kids. I remember sitting at our neighborhood's annual meeting, and one man stood up and said '_we KNOW there's a child molester here, and we're gonna find him_!' My H and I just sat there and looked at each other, stunned.
> 
> One woman on my street made it her mission to approach every family that moved into our neighborhood and warn them away from us. She ended up moving to a different street. After I approached her and told her the truth she kept doing it. It made her 'special' to get to be the one to warn people. By the time we moved all the way across town to get away from it, people pulled their kids out of the pool when we went there. H and our DD were told point blank they would not be allowed to go camping with the YMCA's Indian Princess group. We had to threaten to sue the Y; they put her into a different group where no one knew her. We had people try to run us off from the annual Halloween hayride. TEACHERS were coming up to the mother of our DD's ONE last friend at school and telling her to stop letting her see our DD; and the principal of the school - who lived next door to us - refused to do anything about it. In the end, kids started coming up to DD in 6th grade and asking her what kinds of things her dad made her for him (in bed). They heard this crap from their parents. She had no friends at school; she went from dozens of friends in 3rd grade to NO friend in 6th grade. That's when we moved.
> 
> If we would have gotten a lawyer and tamped this down, and shown righteous indignation, people MIGHT have believed us. But because we said nothing, because we didn't fight it, people were all too ready to believe it.
> 
> In the end, we went from no debt to $150,000 in debt from having to move. I had to give up my dream job at NASA because I just HAD to find a job that paid more. It's been a nightmare for us, all because we wanted to be 'nice' about it. Just like you. We wanted to keep it in the family, just like you.
> 
> THIS is why you need to pursue this, before it's too late.


Jesus. I'd hate to see what your block parties are like.


----------



## turnera

bandit.45 said:


> Jesus. I'd hate to see what your block parties are like.


We had block parties every month. Half of our street was a park. We built that house from scratch, proofed every beam, every wire, added extra insulation, we were there every day while it was being built. It was 5 miles from NASA and the ocean...it was the perfect home for us. It was our forever home. I actually confronted that woman at one of the block parties, I BEGGED her to stop spreading the rumors; she said 'I don't know what you're talking about' to my face, after I'd had several people tell me it was she who approached them. 

Incidentally, this woman was the exact same type of woman my evil stepmother was; you know the kind, stabs you in the back and feels good about it.

It hurts to remember the 'everything' that we lost, all because we tried to be good people and just let the whole matter drop, expecting other people to be good, too.

They're not.


----------



## GusPolinski

turnera said:


> THIS! This isn't about y'all's relationship. This is about how the RO is going to affect your life.
> 
> My stepmother got a bunch of women to sign a letter saying my husband was abusive. We got called into CPS and they dismissed the case. I told the CPS lady I knew who made the claim; told her about my evil stepmother. She said she couldn't verify who made the claim, but if it were her, she'd be putting a lawsuit against the stepmother to stop her from speaking about this any more; I didn't because I didn't want to lose my dad (I ended up losing him over it anyway).
> 
> BUT it didn't matter anyway. One of the ladies who signed the false letter (who didn't even know us) lived in our neighborhood. She started telling people about the abusive guy in the neighborhood. It started spreading. It didn't matter if the case was dropped; this was women's favorite thing to do: gossip. It morphed from abusing his daughter to molesting his daughter. Then to molesting a BUNCH of kids. I remember sitting at our neighborhood's annual meeting, and one man stood up and said '_we KNOW there's a child molester here, and we're gonna find him_!' My H and I just sat there and looked at each other, stunned.
> 
> One woman on my street made it her mission to approach every family that moved into our neighborhood and warn them away from us. She ended up moving to a different street. After I approached her and told her the truth she kept doing it. It made her 'special' to get to be the one to warn people. By the time we moved all the way across town to get away from it, people pulled their kids out of the pool when we went there. H and our DD were told point blank they would not be allowed to go camping with the YMCA's Indian Princess group. We had to threaten to sue the Y; they put her into a different group where no one knew her. We had people try to run us off from the annual Halloween hayride. TEACHERS were coming up to the mother of our DD's ONE last friend at school and telling her to stop letting her see our DD; and the principal of the school - who lived next door to us - refused to do anything about it. In the end, kids started coming up to DD in 6th grade and asking her what kinds of things her dad made her for him (in bed). They heard this crap from their parents. She had no friends at school; she went from dozens of friends in 3rd grade to NO friend in 6th grade. That's when we moved.
> 
> If we would have gotten a lawyer and tamped this down, and shown righteous indignation, people MIGHT have believed us. But because we said nothing, because we didn't fight it, people were all too ready to believe it.
> 
> In the end, we went from no debt to $150,000 in debt from having to move. I had to give up my dream job at NASA because I just HAD to find a job that paid more. It's been a nightmare for us, all because we wanted to be 'nice' about it. Just like you. We wanted to keep it in the family, just like you.
> 
> THIS is why you need to pursue this, before it's too late.


Damn.


----------



## Nucking Futs

turnera said:


> We had block parties every month. Half of our street was a park. We built that house from scratch, proofed every beam, every wire, added extra insulation, we were there every day while it was being built. It was 5 miles from NASA and the ocean...it was the perfect home for us. It was our forever home. I actually confronted that woman at one of the block parties, I BEGGED her to stop spreading the rumors; she said 'I don't know what you're talking about' to my face, after I'd had several people tell me it was she who approached them.
> 
> Incidentally, this woman was the exact same type of woman my evil stepmother was; you know the kind, stabs you in the back and feels good about it.
> 
> *It hurts to remember the 'everything' that we lost, all because we tried to be good people and just let the whole matter drop, expecting other people to be good, too.
> 
> They're not.*


Words to live by.


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## Blossom Leigh

Sadistic Personality Disorder

wonder if she still lives there T


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## GusPolinski

@dadof2! How goes it, sir?!?


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## dadof2

Hey guys, sorry for the long delay in an update. Been a very busy summer for me. I haven't visited the site that often in the last couple of months but I do drop in and read through the threads.

As for me and my SO, we are officially in R. She spent 30 days in a rehab clinic to deal with an eating disorder, and while she was in there they also go her off of all prescriptions. She worked through a lot of deep rooted family issues while there, and we are still working through them in MC. Part of her release plan was that she has to attend individual therapy once a week and see a nutritionist once a week. She has done both all diligently with the exception of one or 2 weeks if the schedule wouldn't allow it. She and I go to MC once a week, and the therapist is the same one that I saw in IC for the last year. She is very good and hold SO's feet to the fire. She works in the same office as the nutritionist so they are able to talk and compare notes.

As for us, we are doing pretty good. I trust but verify everything she has done, and it all turns up clean. During our counseling I have realized that the affair was only a small part of the mental and emotional problems she was dealing with. Of course it was the biggest issue for me, but she has had no issue with NC with OM. I still trigger on certain things and I usually let her know and she tries to learn from it so we don't run into the same triggers over and over again. It is a lot more work dealing with the depth of her eating disorder and the self image/self esteem issues that go along with it. She is finally talking about how certain situations and things make her feel and I am usually blown away at how twisted and convoluted her mind can be. Someone says something and then later in MC it will come up about how she interpreted it totally 180 degrees from how it was said. I have a tough time wrapping my head around that and it makes me afraid to say anything because she will internally think it is a slight against her and then she will kick her eating disorder into gear. That is without a doubt the toughest part of this R, dealing with her self esteem issues but still being able to call her bullsh*t. She understands and realizes it, and we are certainly communicating better than we ever have. That is not to saw we still don't have rough times. We still argue about normal married couple things, and it's hard for me to bite my tongue and not bring up her leaving/filing for divorce etc. when I am upset.

As far as our legal issues- we signed a post nup that separates all of our income and assets. I make significantly more than she does so I feel secure that I won't get taken to the cleaners. The post nup said that she made untrue statements about abuse, so I was glad that we got that part in there. She had no issues with signing anything.

The one problem we have run into is with her job. She has taken 2 tests this summer to get certification in different areas, and has went on 4 or 5 interviews at other schools, but she has not been able to get a job at any new school. It has been very tough on us both, she is not looking forward to going back to the same place. She went and talked to her principal this week and told her about her and OM and that she would like to not have to interact with him at all. That was a big step for her because secrecy is such a huge part of affairs. I said all along that if she couldn't find a new job that I would rather her stay home for the school year. But as that became reality, we had to make a decision. As hard as it is, her not working would be a major strain on our marriage. Of course working at the same job with OM will put strain as well, but I am confident that she has handled everything the right way leading up to returning to school. I'm sure we will have rough days and that will only elevate the pressure on us, but we are going to try to get through it.

As far as my relationship with her family goes, it is pretty much nonexistent. After everything that went on last year and her parents' blind defense, I have no desire to have a relationship with them. Her sister was the only one who saw through the bullsh*t but she lives out of town and we don't cross paths often. Her parents call and text her, but she doesn't speak to them much either. She has realized the enabling nature of their relationship- especially with her mother- and she just doesn't have the energy to deal with her nagging all the time. We sat down with her parents in February and my SO came clean, and 30 minutes later her mom said that I need to get over it and was back to acting like nothing happened. F*ck that I have set some boundaries where I don't deal with that sh*t anymore.

So there is my story so far, all 181 pages of it! I have read back through it a few times and it is amazing to relive the down days and keep everything in perspective. I know we have a long way to go, and we may not ever make it out of R, we will see. As always I appreciate all of the feedback- positive and negative- and hope my story can help someone down the road. I plan on sticking around and reading threads, offering some hard earned advice, and updating my story as time goes along.


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## farsidejunky

Nice update, D02. Her reaction to her parents gives me hope for y'all.


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## tom67

farsidejunky said:


> Nice update, D02. Her reaction to her parents gives me hope for y'all.


Yes 
:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## turnera

You may want to edit her name out of your post.


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## GusPolinski

Good update. Well, except for her staying in the same job, that is.

Good work keeping boundaries w/ her parents. "Just get over it"...? With false claims of abuse? GMAFB.

Sorry, Granny, but this sh*t has a devastating affect on innocent men all over the world. At best it creates a temporary division in the family, wherein fathers are forcibly removed from their homes and families and forbidden by law to return. At worst it's somewhat less temporary and can even involve prison time.

"Just get over it"...?

How about "Just go f*ck yourself, you enabling [email protected]#$."


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## Lostinthought61

Nice update Dad, 
with her going back to the school, and the OM there, i imagine that at some point you may see him at functions...do you have an idea how you intend to handle that?


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## Borntohang

Dad, so happy for you!
I have to admit, I'm a little jaded when it comes to reconciliation after such deceit. But I have a great feeling about this! You've handled sooo well!
Wonderful update!


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## happyman64

Great update Dof2.

Glad you both are keeping it real & honest.

And you give credit where credit is due. I am sure it took some courage for her to come clean to the Principal about the Affair and OM.

She did it.

And she is also coming to grips with her person issues with the help of professional.

Good for her and you.

Keep moving forward.

HM


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## sparrow555

R'ing with her even after she claimed that is abused her is pretty sad...just like some of the women that go back to their husbands even after he beats her up regularly...


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## LongWalk

Good update.

I gather that you have a big difference in self perception now. Your survival in this storm was amazing. You don't need her if she fails to hold up her end.

If she stays self-harm and addiction free, you have reason to be optimistic.

Do you find her dependent on your judgment more than in the past?

I imagine you don't want to play parent, police or detective very much.


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## bandit.45

Dad are you sensing true remorse from her? Did she ever have that epiphany moment where the full depth and breadth of her betrayal hit her full force?

She essentially left you and went and became this guy's wife for a time. That has to be damaging to you. I don't know how you overcame that.


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## sparrow555

As far as my relationship with her family goes, it is pretty much nonexistent. After everything that went on last year and her parents' blind defense, I have no desire to have a relationship with them. Her sister was the only one who saw through the bullsh*t but she lives out of town and we don't cross paths often. Her parents call and text her, but she doesn't speak to them much either. She has realized the enabling nature of their relationship- especially with her mother- and she just doesn't have the energy to deal with her nagging all the time. We sat down with her parents in February and my SO came clean, and 30 minutes later her mom said that I need to get over it and was back to acting like nothing happened. F*ck that I have set some boundaries where I don't deal with that sh*t anymore.


So, she betrayed her parents too?


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## drifting on

Dadof2

Good to see your update, even better the work you are both putting into your marriage. The path before you is long, prepare yourself for this journey, support each other as you go through. Both of you will be facing some challenges that require strength to get through, communicate with each other to avoid the pitfalls. This path is not for the weak, you both need to be strong and united. You will need to lean on each other, but not carry each other, you both have work to do. 

Dadof2 you are facing a battle that she will still work with the OM. I also thought I could handle this, only to find I was wrong. Even though my WW contact with OM was for work related business, I found myself wondering throughout the day. Wondering if they spent fifteen minutes together, wondering if they were both in the same office, wondering if they had lunch together. My WW made sure I knew where she was at all times during the day, but I still wondered. I had to be vulnerable which is very difficult for me. I had to communicate effectively for my WW to understand fully. I had explained my fears and emotions with them working together and my WW offered to quit. It is up to your WW to make you feel safe, that she recognize that this POS nearly destroyed her kids world, her world. That she not speak to OM unless absolutely necessary. 

Your WW also has the other faculty that I believe are toxic to your marriage. The others that condoned her cheating, or simply stayed quiet. They are not good for your marriage or for your wife to be associating with. If I were you I would want to know who these people are and how much contact she has with them during a given day. This is difficult in that you can't ask her to exile herself, but that she needs to be associating with family oriented people. People who respect marriage and more importantly your marriage. 

I also have wondered about the restraining order. The fact it is in your pre-nup is great, that she lied to obtain such a document. The court systems do not appreciate orders of protection or restraining orders being obtained under false pretenses. But my question dadof2 is this, did she come up with this idea or did the OM? To me this is very important as I'm sure it is to you. If your WW came up with this idea then this affair was very calculated and needs to be covered in MC. If it was OM, then the principal should be informed of the predator that is roaming within his school walls. Just something to think about, as I'm not trying to derail your reconciliation, but rather making sure you are protected. 

I wish you the best of luck, and hope you find peace and happiness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> Dad are you sensing true remorse from her? Did she ever have that epiphany moment where the full depth and breadth of her betrayal hit her full force?
> 
> She essentially left you and went and became this guy's wife for a time. That has to be damaging to you. I don't know how you overcame that.


Word.

And what about "the spark"? Did that ever come back?

And, if so, how does your WW explain that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eastsouth2000

the perfect song for this saga, leann rimes: Life Goes On

You sucked me in
And played my mind
Just like a toy
You were crank and wind

Baby shame on you, if you fool me once
Shame on me if you fool me twice
You've been a pretty hard case to crack
Should've known better but I didn't
And I can't go back

dadof2, you've chosen to reconcile. If that makes you Happy you do that.
you can never control your wife whether she cheats again or not.
you can only control your own destiny.

don't alienate your children's grandparents. avoid all anger and resentment

I wish you the best of luck! Life Goes On...


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## farsidejunky

Hey, DO2. It has been a few months. Just checking in on you and hoping for the best, brother.


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## GusPolinski

@dadof2, how are you doing?


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## happyman64

GusPolinski said:


> @dadof2, how are you doing?


Deja Vu Gus. I was think of Dof2 yesterday wondering how he was doing......


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## tom67

happyman64 said:


> Deja Vu Gus. I was think of Dof2 yesterday wondering how he was doing......


Hoping for the best also FOR HIM she did the heavy lifting for a time I hope she is battling her demons.
Of course those young kids damn.


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## dadof2

Hey guys, I am doing well. I appreciate the thoughts.

The wife and I are still moving forward, and things are in a good place. Trust and verify has become second nature to me, and any little thing that seems odd to me has turned up nothing. It has gotten to the point where I don't think of it much anymore. To her credit she has gone above and beyond anything I could ever ask her to do in order to prove that there is no hint of infidelity. Thanks to everything I have been through, I can say I have a clear vision of what I will accept and what I won't.

The biggest issue facing our marriage right now is her eating disorder. She struggles with it daily and goes in cycles of good weeks and bad weeks. It is very mentally draining, and she has to work very hard and stay diligent to keep it from resurfacing. That is very stressful on both of us, and we continue to go to MC a couple times a month to stay on the straight and narrow. Our kids are happy and that makes all of this work seem worth it. I realize that staying together only for their sake isn't healthy for anyone, and we have worked on our marriage and family life in order to keep a strong family unit.

I appreciate all of the solid advice I received during my mess, and I enjoy coming back and reading through threads. I don't visit as much as I'd like but whenever I get a few minutes I try to read through the forums.

Hope all is well for you guys


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## happyman64

Stay off the threads.

Focus on you, your marriage, her disorder and most importantly your kids.

That is all that matters.

Happy to hear all of you are ok and moving forward Dof2.

Have a great Thanksgiving with your family.

HM


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## drifting on

Dof2

Have you ever gotten anything in writing from her regarding her lies to obtain the restraining order? You really need your attorney to write up a letter with her admitting that she fraudulently obtained a restraining order. This could pay huge dividends if she ever goes off the rails again. Also it is a legal document that she lied about any and all abuse received from you. Remember how easily it was that everybody believed her abuse and she is the victim story. You do need to do this, regardless how unimportant you feel it is or how much it hurts her. 

Other then that I hope everything goes well for you. Happy thanksgiving!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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