# World has been turned upside down in a day.



## ddude23

Hi all, I am a 33 year old male. My wife is 32 years old. We married in 2008 and have been together since 2004. We've faced pretty tough things over our time together. Lost our first house which was devastating but now live in a very nice home that were comfortable in. Throughout our time together it was found out that my wife was infertile, we never really planned for kids but it devastated her. I did maybe want kids one day but I assured her that I love her and would not be going anywhere. She has been my biggest supporter and best friend all of these years. We barely fought and have had a good marriage. 

Yesterday my wife confessed something that turned everything upside down. She teaches a dance class for young/teenage girls and has informed me that she's been having an emotional affair with one of the fathers of one of these girls. Told me she is confused and doesn't know if these feelings are real or not and if she should follow them. This has been going on for four months. Swearing nothing physical has happened.

I thought I had it all, I have a nice life and a good job that I'm respected at, get along with everybody. I asked her if she is willing to cut him off completely, she told me she doesn't know if she can do that. Told me she thinks we can go to counseling. All while she still continues deciding what she wants. 

I was at work earlier today, I just started to cry in my office. Looking at at the picture of her on my table. I feel like a destroyed/betrayed man. Someone must of heard and informed my boss, who talked with me personally and told me it is okay if I take a few days off. 

So I'm at home, all I want to do is drown my thoughts in alcohol but I have read that it's not good. I will do anything to numb this pain. I posted in another section, but that is a divorce forum. Although there is a good possibility I will end up divorced :frown2:


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## Affaircare

@ddude23, 

I'm sorry you're here and that we're meeting under these circumstances, but in a way I'm glad you're here, because we can really help you!

First, I want to forewarn you that some people here have also been betrayed, and when they read posts like yours, they trigger and feel all that hurt and pain again--so they respond pretty harshly (not harsh toward you, but just with some gusto  ). So as you read people's replies, please remember that. 

Second, I want to tell you right up front that in my first marriage my exH cheated on me and I was DEVASTATED. I cried for days on end. But I want to encourage you because it doesn't last forever and gradually it can get better. It's not instant, I can tell ya that! But gradually over some time, you will feel better, no matter what you choose to do. So don't sink into the darkness. Yes, it's dark right now, but there is hope for the future, okay? Now the part I'm not proud of at all: in my second marriage (my current marriage), I was the one who had the affair. It was all online so all EA, and yet it was definitely unfaithfulness. So I tell you this because I have some understanding of both sides. 

Okay--take a deep breath. There are some things you can do immediately that will actually help the situation. 

1. Go shopping right now and buy some soup and some lotion kleenex. I know that sounds crazy but you are NOT going to be able to eat with all the crying and the knot in your throat, and yet you need your strength somehow. Soup is warm, feels kind of good, and will give you a little nutrition. And lotion tissues are because I guarantee you, you and your wife are going to be doing some crying, and you will chap your eyelids. Crying into chapped eyelids is physically ouchy--so lotion tissues. You can do that today and help yourself a little tiny bit. 

2. She made a vow (aka "a voluntary promise") to YOU to forsake all others and give 100% of her affection, loyalty and companionship to you. She did not promise this for "as long as she had feelings" but rather through all the ups and downs that life throws at you two UNTIL DEATH PARTS YOU. So she has obligations to you. She has no such obligations to the other man (OM). So you are not in a contest to win her as the prize. YOU are her husband and the head of your family. 

So do not beg her, or try to "nice" her back to the marriage. I know that is SO HARD because you want to woo her and win her back!! But @ddude23, I guarantee you that will not do it. So read, and read, and read here on the forum so you can learn about affairs, but for now, just do not try to beg and promise her you'll be a better husband. If you want to do anything, gather your courage about you and tell her IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that you will not have a third wheel in your marriage, and that you find adultery unacceptable. Tell her she made a moral and legal promise TO YOU and that you do not intend to just let her just go all wishy washy--you will not let her go without FIGHTING for your WIFE! Have the attitude a little bit like "If you want to be with ME, I find this utterly unacceptable and you will stop now or you will not have me!!" Right out, tell her that to remain married to you, she MUST stop the affair immediately and end all contact forever. 

3. Finally I want you to keep this in mind: SHE is the one who chose to commit adultery. I highly suspect she is going to talk to you and say something like: "Well if you had paid more attention to me and been more romantic, I wouldn't have felt so lonely and wandered" (attempting to place the blame for her choice on you). DO NOT SHOULDER HER BURDEN. I'm not saying you were a perfect husband--I'll betcha you can learn to do better, right? We all have faults! But she had an obligation to love you and protect the marriage from her own weaknesses, and instead she left herself and the one to whom she made promises vulnerable. So the old marriage you had is dead. The image you had in your head--that is dead. And you were the murder victim and she was the murderer. There is no getting around that truth. 

BUT you are the party who was wronged. You can morally and legally choose to divorce, if that is what you choose. Many people consider infidelity a deal-breaker and will not tolerate it at all one little bit. Others have the ability to learn and grown and forgive and are able to offer reconciliation IF THE DISLOYAL SPOUSE ENDS THE AFFAIR...and then learns and grows from what they did. So you have some time to figure out which way you want to go--you don't have to decide that today. In fact, I guarantee that no matter which way you pick, there will be days and times that you'll vacillate . For now, just remind yourself over and over that THE CHOICE IS YOURS. If you want to divorce--I say go to a lawyer, learn your rights, and pursue it as soon as possible. Rip the bandaid off! And if you want to reconcile--then the first thing you'll want to do is END THE AFFAIR. The two of them can never contact each other again, so you may have to move and she may have to leave her job as dance teacher because that is the cost of choosing to screw around with a parent of one of her students. 

Okay--that's a start. We'll be here for you.


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## rockon

Did you ask her why the sudden confession?


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## Lostme

Sorry you are here.

The truth is unless she stays away from this guy, you will not be able to work on the marriage. you need to give her an ultimatum it's you or him and if she can't decide then hand her divorce papers maybe that will wake her up. Do not hang around and be her plan B


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## Keke24

Affaircare said:


> @ddude23,
> 
> I'm sorry you're here and that we're meeting under these circumstances, but in a way I'm glad you're here, because we can really help you!
> 
> First, I want to forewarn you that some people here have also been betrayed, and when they read posts like yours, they trigger and feel all that hurt and pain again--so they respond pretty harshly (not harsh toward you, but just with some gusto  ). So as you read people's replies, please remember that.
> 
> Second, I want to tell you right up front that in my first marriage my exH cheated on me and I was DEVASTATED. I cried for days on end. But I want to encourage you because it doesn't last forever and gradually it can get better. It's not instant, I can tell ya that! But gradually over some time, you will feel better, no matter what you choose to do. So don't sink into the darkness. Yes, it's dark right now, but there is hope for the future, okay? Now the part I'm not proud of at all: in my second marriage (my current marriage), I was the one who had the affair. It was all online so all EA, and yet it was definitely unfaithfulness. So I tell you this because I have some understanding of both sides.
> 
> Okay--take a deep breath. There are some things you can do immediately that will actually help the situation.
> 
> 1. Go shopping right now and buy some soup and some lotion kleenex. I know that sounds crazy but you are NOT going to be able to eat with all the crying and the knot in your throat, and yet you need your strength somehow. Soup is warm, feels kind of good, and will give you a little nutrition. And lotion tissues are because I guarantee you, you and your wife are going to be doing some crying, and you will chap your eyelids. Crying into chapped eyelids is physically ouchy--so lotion tissues. You can do that today and help yourself a little tiny bit.
> 
> 2. She made a vow (aka "a voluntary promise") to YOU to forsake all others and give 100% of her affection, loyalty and companionship to you. She did not promise this for "as long as she had feelings" but rather through all the ups and downs that life throws at you two UNTIL DEATH PARTS YOU. So she has obligations to you. She has no such obligations to the other man (OM). So you are not in a contest to win her as the prize. YOU are her husband and the head of your family.
> 
> So do not beg her, or try to "nice" her back to the marriage. I know that is SO HARD because you want to woo her and win her back!! But @ddude23, I guarantee you that will not do it. So read, and read, and read here on the forum so you can learn about affairs, but for now, just do not try to beg and promise her you'll be a better husband. If you want to do anything, gather your courage about you and tell her IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that you will not have a third wheel in your marriage, and that you find adultery unacceptable. Tell her she made a moral and legal promise TO YOU and that you do not intend to just let her just go all wishy washy--you will not let her go without FIGHTING for your WIFE! Have the attitude a little bit like "If you want to be with ME, I find this utterly unacceptable and you will stop now or you will not have me!!" Right out, tell her that to remain married to you, she MUST stop the affair immediately and end all contact forever.
> 
> 3. Finally I want you to keep this in mind: SHE is the one who chose to commit adultery. I highly suspect she is going to talk to you and say something like: "Well if you had paid more attention to me and been more romantic, I wouldn't have felt so lonely and wandered" (attempting to place the blame for her choice on you). DO NOT SHOULDER HER BURDEN. I'm not saying you were a perfect husband--I'll betcha you can learn to do better, right? We all have faults! But she had an obligation to love you and protect the marriage from her own weaknesses, and instead she left herself and the one to whom she made promises vulnerable. So the old marriage you had is dead. The image you had in your head--that is dead. And you were the murder victim and she was the murderer. There is no getting around that truth.
> 
> BUT you are the party who was wronged. You can morally and legally choose to divorce, if that is what you choose. Many people consider infidelity a deal-breaker and will not tolerate it at all one little bit. Others have the ability to learn and grown and forgive and are able to offer reconciliation IF THE DISLOYAL SPOUSE ENDS THE AFFAIR...and then learns and grows from what they did. So you have some time to figure out which way you want to go--you don't have to decide that today. In fact, I guarantee that no matter which way you pick, there will be days and times that you'll vacillate . For now, just remind yourself over and over that THE CHOICE IS YOURS. If you want to divorce--I say go to a lawyer, learn your rights, and pursue it as soon as possible. Rip the bandaid off! And if you want to reconcile--then the first thing you'll want to do is END THE AFFAIR. The two of them can never contact each other again, so you may have to move and she may have to leave her job as dance teacher because that is the cost of choosing to screw around with a parent of one of her students.
> 
> Okay--that's a start. We'll be here for you.


My goodness, this is some excellent, well stated advice! Damnnnnn


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## cbnero

I dont know why you wouldn't throw her $hit out on the lawn. See ya later babe! Adios!

Unless you don't have any self respect.. 

And hey is this bozo married himself? If so rat him out to his wife immediately.

Also see a divorce lawyer. And quit talking to your wife about her feelings. Really? Why the F would her feelings be important right now - she is the one cheating!

Tell her you don't want to wear a tshirt that says Plan B the rest of your life and you want a divorce. Get a lawyer. Make her earn her way back, if that is what you want later. Why are you the one groveling when she is a giant POS??? She should be worried about keeping you. Sure doesn't sound like it.

Time for being nice is over pal. Sooner you figure it out the better for you. Or you can keep believing the crap she is telling you. As if you can trust her to be honest now.... 

Good luck. F her.


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## Cynthia

Working on a marriage, even with marriage counseling, is pointless when one person is actively tearing it down by having a relationship with someone else. If your wife sees that she can pursue her affair partner while you are working on being a great husband and waiting for her, she will only continue in her affair and the marriage will continue to deteriorate. The marriage will never get better or heal while she has another man involved. He is literally between you.

I would recommend that you inform his wife immediately. That will help shut things down quickly. It is highly unlikely that he will continue on with your wife if his wife knows what's going on.

Begging her will make you look pathetic and weak. I'm really sorry, but that's the truth. She will see you as less than she already does if you do that. She'll also see that she's holding all the cards, which you don't want at all. Right now, she is the one who should be begging and pleading with you - willing to do anything you ask of her to resolve this.

One thing to keep in mind is that the woman you thought you could trust is not trustworthy. You will never be able to trust her again unless she gets to the bottom of what would allow her to violate basic moral principles and betray you. If she can't find that and correct it, she'll do it again.

Bottom line is that she makes a choice now - either stop all contact and work on resolving whatever has caused her to betray you or leave.


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## Marc878

ddude23 said:


> Hi all, I am a 33 year old male. My wife is 32 years old. We married in 2008 and have been together since 2004. We've faced pretty tough things over our time together. Lost our first house which was devastating but now live in a very nice home that were comfortable in. Throughout our time together it was found out that my wife was infertile, we never really planned for kids but it devastated her. I did maybe want kids one day but I assured her that I love her and would not be going anywhere. She has been my biggest supporter and best friend all of these years. We barely fought and have had a good marriage.
> 
> Yesterday my wife confessed something that turned everything upside down. She teaches a dance class for young/teenage girls and has informed me that she's been having an emotional affair with one of the fathers of one of these girls. *Told me she is confused and doesn't know if these feelings are real or not and if she should follow them. This has been going on for four months. Swearing nothing physical has happened.*
> 
> 4 month EA with contact. Highly likely it's a physical affair. Cheaters lie a lot.
> 
> I thought I had it all, I have a nice life and a good job that I'm respected at, get along with everybody. I asked her if she is willing to cut him off completely, she told me she doesn't know if she can do that. *Told me she thinks we can go to counseling. All while she still continues deciding what she wants. *
> 
> Counciling in an active affair is worthless
> 
> I was at work earlier today, I just started to cry in my office. Looking at at the picture of her on my table. I feel like a destroyed/betrayed man. Someone must of heard and informed my boss, who talked with me personally and told me it is okay if I take a few days off.
> 
> So I'm at home, all I want to do is drown my thoughts in alcohol but I have read that it's not good. I will do anything to numb this pain. I posted in another section, but that is a divorce forum. Although there is a good possibility I will end up divorced :frown2:
> 
> Alcohol is the worst thing you can do!!!! You'd better wake up and take charge of our life. Letting a cheating wife decide your fate?


The best thing you can do right now is inform the other mans wife. Get to an attorney and see what your doing if hrs are.

Hard 180 no contact. Moping around drunk at this time just make you look weak when her other man stands tall. You need to wake up!!!!!!


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## Clemson

ddude23 said:


> Hi all, I am a 33 year old male. My wife is 32 years old. We married in 2008 and have been together since 2004. We've faced pretty tough things over our time together. Lost our first house which was devastating but now live in a very nice home that were comfortable in. Throughout our time together it was found out that my wife was infertile, we never really planned for kids but it devastated her. I did maybe want kids one day but I assured her that I love her and would not be going anywhere. She has been my biggest supporter and best friend all of these years. We barely fought and have had a good marriage.
> 
> Yesterday my wife confessed something that turned everything upside down. She teaches a dance class for young/teenage girls and has informed me that she's been having an emotional affair with one of the fathers of one of these girls. Told me she is confused and doesn't know if these feelings are real or not and if she should follow them. This has been going on for four months. Swearing nothing physical has happened.
> 
> I thought I had it all, I have a nice life and a good job that I'm respected at, get along with everybody. I asked her if she is willing to cut him off completely, she told me she doesn't know if she can do that. Told me she thinks we can go to counseling. All while she still continues deciding what she wants.
> 
> I was at work earlier today, I just started to cry in my office. Looking at at the picture of her on my table. I feel like a destroyed/betrayed man. Someone must of heard and informed my boss, who talked with me personally and told me it is okay if I take a few days off.
> 
> So I'm at home, all I want to do is drown my thoughts in alcohol but I have read that it's not good. I will do anything to numb this pain. I posted in another section, but that is a divorce forum. Although there is a good possibility I will end up divorced :frown2:


So sorry to hear about your situation man. I was you in November except my wife's affair had gotten physical (to me, the emotional part with a woman is what is so concerning anyway). She fell in love with the other guy. We had the perfect life: great house, pool, luxury vehicles, travel, marriage that seemed happy for 9 years with no fights or complaints by her, etc. We also had no kids. My wife is 32 as well. Our counselor said that is a scary time for women because they are reassessing life and figuring out who they really are and what they want. She too had difficulty cutting ties with the other guy. He was married with 3 little kids in a state far away yet she eventually chose him last month. You will be hurting right now in the immediate aftermath. I remember feeling out of control and physically ill for a week. I lost 15 pounds in 2 weeks. I too cried at work and just stayed home one day and cried. IT WILL GET BETTER!!! I kept my wife's affair a secret because I didn't want to ruin reconciliation. In hindsight, I wish I would have shared what happened with a few people I really trusted. It's hard to be alone right now with this info. We tried counseling too but my wife could not get over the other guy. We are in the middle of divorce proceedings right now. I started off wondering how I could live without my wife to now wondering how I could live with her knowing what she has done and how she hurt me. I'm 41 - you have the luxury of your whole life still ahead of you. I'm not one of these guys who says throw her stuff in the yard. BUT get your financial house in order and consider drafting a post-nuptial agreement (you can have a lawyer do it or find one online and tweak it). You can take advantage of her being in lala land and maybe get decent terms in case you do start divorce. Listen - you did nothing wrong to make her cheat. She is a weak person and if not this guy, it would have happened down the road. Don't be ashamed or embarrassed - you did nothing wrong! And take the time to be sad. This is devastating news but things will get better! Just hang in there and post on this board. My thread is called wife choosing other man - read my story and you will see similarities I bet. The times where I feel sad are few and far between now.


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## GusPolinski

She's lying.

A 4-month EA with someone that she sees on any sort of regular basis is a _physical_ affair.

That is the absolute truth, so you might as well accept it.

So knowing that, if you're inclined to divorce, go for it.

If, however, you want to reconcile, here's how it has to go:

Either she cuts him off IMMEDIATELY AND COMPLETELY (which means that the daughter is removed from her class), or you file for divorce.

And that's it.

Anything less is a half-measure and WILL result in her leaving you for him anyway (even if she doesn't actually leave the house).

Also, if the guy is married, expose the affair to his wife.


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## Hopeful Cynic

ddude23 said:


> Yesterday my wife confessed something that turned everything upside down. She teaches a dance class for young/teenage girls and has informed me that she's been having an emotional affair with one of the fathers of one of these girls. Told me she is confused and doesn't know if these feelings are real or not and if she should follow them. This has been going on for four months. Swearing nothing physical has happened.
> 
> I thought I had it all, I have a nice life and a good job that I'm respected at, get along with everybody. I asked her if she is willing to cut him off completely, she told me she doesn't know if she can do that. Told me she thinks we can go to counseling. All while she still continues deciding what she wants.


She's trying to decide what she wants? You don't have to sit around in limbo and wait for her though. If she's not immediately choosing you, going to counselling, and ending all contact with this guy including quitting her job, then she's already made a choice, and it isn't you. Do you really want a wife who only half wants to be with you? Do you really want a wife capable of lying to you and getting emotional and probably physical (she's a cheating liar, so you can't believe a word she says, including that nothing physical happened) with another guy? Do you really want a wife with no integrity? By not clearly choosing you, she's showing she doesn't want you but doesn't know how to tell you.

Here's some of the cost-benefit analysis going on in her mind.

Pros of Ddude23: good job, don't want to lose my nice house, all I've known (probably) since I was a teenager, don't want people to think I'm a cheater
Cons of Ddude23: boring, can't have kids with him, limerence has faded

Pros of dance-dad: good father, ready-made family, exciting, limerence going strong
Cons of dance-dad: none (maybe he's married, maybe he's low-income, who knows, but she's not thinking of that stuff)


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## Jessica38

If you want to save your marriage, here's what you need to do:

1. Get a copy of Surviving an Affair. you can download it to a kindle app on your iphone immediately.
2. Expose the affair to family, including the OM's wife. Ask for support in ending this affair. This is so your wife is unable to rewrite history and blame you for her behavior. When you expose, let everyone know you're asking for their support to keep your marriage together because you are devastated.
3. After OM ends his fun with your wife (because he will) and she realizes what she's done, she will likely want to reconcile with you. Only agree if she sends a no contact letter to the OM and finds away to never come into contact with him again (may require she quit teaching or he moves his daughter to another dance studio).
4. Expect full transparency from your wife- access to her devices, whereabouts, etc. 
5. Demand a polygraph to find out the full extend of this affair.
6. Be the best husband you can be, focus on your children, eat right, exercise, try to get sleep. Take anti-anxiety meds if necessary to get through this.
7. If your wife does not do these things, see a lawyer and file for legal separation and full custody.


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## Cynthia

Clemson said:


> I kept my wife's affair a secret because I didn't want to ruin reconciliation. In hindsight, I wish I would have shared what happened with a few people I really trusted. It's hard to be alone right now with this info.


Do not keep the secrets of a cheater. This gives her a huge advantage in keeping her betrayal hidden. It is at your own peril to keep this to yourself. Tell anyone you want to. You're not the one who is acting like a jerk. You are not the one who is untrustworthy and mean. If she doesn't want people to see her that way, she should have thought of that before taking her love elsewhere. She made her life, don't reduce her consequences. That only makes matters worse.


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## Marc878

CynthiaDe said:


> Do not keep the secrets of a cheater. This gives her a huge advantage in keeping her betrayal hidden. It is at your own peril to keep this to yourself. Tell anyone you want to. You're not the one who is acting like a jerk. You are not the one who is untrustworthy and mean. If she doesn't want people to see her that way, she should have thought of that before taking her love elsewhere. She made her life, don't reduce her consequences. That only makes matters worse.


Exactly, helping them hide their affair only enables it further and in reality makes you an accomplice .


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## Cynthia

Marc878 said:


> Exactly, helping them hide their affair only enables it further and in reality makes you an accomplice .


While isolating you and making your personal pain worse. Cheaters hate to be exposed. But that is not your problem. Do not sacrifice your personal wellbeing and cave to any demands she makes, including that you keep it quiet.

Also do not tell her you are going to expose. It should come as a surprise after she hears about it through the grapevine.


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## bbad

cbnero said:


> Unless you don't have any self respect..


While your whole post was somewhat helpful, this is the last thing he wants to hear at this moment. Be nice!


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## Jessica38

And since affairs thrive on secrecy, exposure usually stops them in their tracks.


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## Cynthia

Jessica38 said:


> And since affairs thrive on secrecy, exposure usually stops them in their tracks.


The secrecy aspect of it feeds the fantasy as well. They live in a little world they have created where there is no stress of having to work through any problems. It's a secret little fantasy world. Crash that world! Knock it down. lol


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## 3putt

bbad said:


> While your whole post was somewhat helpful, this is the last thing he wants to hear at this moment. Be nice!


It may not be what he wants to hear, but it's exactly what he *needs* to hear. 

The worst mistake a BS can make is to shield them from the consequences of their decisions out of fear of losing them. It's counter intuitive to be sure, but it's it's been proven to be true way too many times to be discounted.

Expose her, and especially to his wife......assuming they're still married.


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## adegirl2016

Expose it!!! 

I would let her go. Kick her out until she makes her decision. And then make her work her butt off for reconciliation. Don't let her move back in until you have fully reconciled.

Love must be tough... this situation makes me think of this book. Look it up.


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## GusPolinski

bbad said:


> While your whole post was somewhat helpful, this is the last thing he wants to hear at this moment. Be nice!


Ha!

Not sure where you intended to land when you found this place, but you missed your mark by a pretty wide berth.


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## Adelais

ddude23, read your situation. The other posters have given you good advice, but I'll stress that you make an appointment with a Dr. and get a prescription for antidepressants. You are only on the beginning of a very long ride with very low lows. I wish I had done it sooner when my H had an affair. It helps even out your emotions, but doesn't numb you. If you find you can't sleep, ask for a sleep-aid that doesn't make you groggy the next day. That combination does wonders to at least help you have a normal day/night cycle, and let your mind rest so you can face the problems that will inevitably face you in this situation.

Your wife has already chosen what she wants to do. Now it is your turn: either she stops seeing him immediately, with a no-contact letter, or she moves out.


Do not overlook the advice to let the other man's wife know what he has been up to while dropping off their daughter at dance class. It is not for vengeance, but to help end the affair, and help burst their fairy-tale bubble to bring them back to real life.


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## drifting on

ddude23

Let me first say I am not saying to be violent, but it's time you go to dance class. When the OM arrives gently but firmly step between him and his daughter. Look him in the eye and quietly tell him to tell his daughter to continue on. Have a small but very firm chat with him that you will destroy his world legally if he continues contact with your wife. Tell him that rumors have been spreading about him and your wife amongst other parents. You are simply trying to protect your wife's reputation and it would be a shame if this somehow exploded to his family and employer. Tell him if it hits his family and employer it will also hit yours which is what you are protecting. If he says he doesn't know anything of what you are saying, tell him you sure hope so, but wouldn't bet on it. 

Then tell your wife she decides now, no contact or its divorce. You must be willing to lose your marriage to save it. If she says she can't lose OM then she moves out NOW. With your days off work file for divorce. You can stop it at any time you decide. Have your wife served at work, tell her parents she is having an affair. Only shock and awe will bring her to rational thinking. 

The other part is I would be at every dance class she has where OM's daughter is attending. Just tell OM to go ahead and discuss whatever it is that's bothering him with you present. Don't give that bastard one ounce of breathing room. At the same time don't give your wife any breathing room either. You are in a war ddude23, best you start to act like you are in one.


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## cbnero

bbad said:


> cbnero said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you don't have any self respect..
> 
> 
> 
> While your whole post was somewhat helpful, this is the last thing he wants to hear at this moment. Be nice!
Click to expand...

I am being nice. Plenty of people on here to quiz him about his feelings, her feelings, status of their marriage, etc... if that's what he wants. By that time his world will be exploding all around him. That's not my style. Doesn't mean I'm right but it doesn't mean I'm wrong either.

If he wants to save himself and maybe his marriage, then he needs to see through the bullcrap she is feeding him and get his mind right. HE is the victim here.

I don't know that tossing her crap in the yard is the way to go. But it's the right mindset. He is holding all the cards right now. Not her. Why does she need time to think? What about OP feelings? If he caves to that crap now he'll be eating it the rest of his days. He NEEDS self respect to survive this. Wake up OP!


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## ddude23

Someone mentioned getting soup and eating. It has completely passed my mind that I have not eaten anything today. I just ate something 20 minutes ago. She has told me the other guy is divorced, do not know if that is true or not. This truly was a punch to the gut I was not expecting. Good marriage. My head hurts so unbelievably bad. I'm going to see a doctor tomorrow. I have been reading about all of this stuff. Not to beg and cry. Yesterday I was doing enough of that.


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## TX-SC

Honestly, if you are planning to save this marriage, you have to be willing to lose it. Take stock of your life with her and seriously consider what your life will be without her. Come to the realization that you can not only live without her, but you can THRIVE without her. Once you do that, you can really start to address this. 

Women see weak men like a wolf sees a wounded fawn. Once you come to terms with losing her, put your damn foot down and tell her to cut contact or she moves out and starts the D process. There is no negotiating this and there is no waffling. No contact with him, or no contact with you. She has to choose right now or you will assume she chooses him and she can start packing that very night. 

Oh, and it's only emotional? Yeah right... 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia

ddude23 said:


> Someone mentioned getting soup and eating. It has completely passed my mind that I have not eaten anything today. I just ate something 20 minutes ago. She has told me the other guy is divorced, do not know if that is true or not. This truly was a punch to the gut I was not expecting. Good marriage. My head hurts so unbelievably bad. I'm going to see a doctor tomorrow. I have been reading about all of this stuff. Not to beg and cry. Yesterday I was doing enough of that.


This is all pretty standard. Make sure you think about eating. Normally your body tells you, but at least for a while you will have to make a point to eat at certain times.

As far as your previous begging and crying, it's okay. That part is over now. Make her sleep out of your bedroom so you can be alone and cry without her hearing you. Get yourself together when you are around her. You don't have to talk to her at all once you give her the ultimatum.


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## MattMatt

Hi. Sorry you had your find us, but I am glad you found us. 

Counselling is a good idea but rarely works if one person is in an affair.


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## cbnero

ddude23 said:


> Someone mentioned getting soup and eating. It has completely passed my mind that I have not eaten anything today. I just ate something 20 minutes ago. She has told me the other guy is divorced, do not know if that is true or not. This truly was a punch to the gut I was not expecting. Good marriage. My head hurts so unbelievably bad. I'm going to see a doctor tomorrow. I have been reading about all of this stuff. Not to beg and cry. Yesterday I was doing enough of that.


If you read many of the other posts here - aside from maybe feeling depressed - you will see an underlying theme... being nice does not work. That's not saying to yell or be abusive towards her. Only to respect yourself first and foremost. 

When I went through it I did everything wrong. Everything. I didn't find TAM until too late. As soon as I started disconnecting and standing up for myself and not letting her control my life she started freaking out, wanting to talk, etc... at that time I had seen enough to know I didn't want her back. Not as a friend, lover, wife, etc... I just shut that door mentally. But it wasn't until I realized I was in control of my future and decisions and what I was okay/not okay with that she decided she wanted back in. 

I don't know what the truth is with her affair. I know I wouldn't trust her to tell you. And I wouldn't confront OM either. Part of disconnecting is not caring. But I would probably check the online civil records to see if he is still married and if so I'd expose him to his wife in a heartbeat.

And go see a divorce lawyer tomorrow and don't tell you unfaithful wife. Stay on TAM.


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## ABHale

Hey man, it's going to take a few days for you to start seeing straight again. Take care of yourself and forget about your wife for the time. 

Focus on you and pull yourself together. Get your feet back underneath you. If you want any chance at saving your marriage, it's time to be a man. If you let this beat you down, you will lose your wife. Pull yourself together. 

The best way to do this is to find your anger, feed off it. Do not lose control and go off the handle with her. Stay calm and be clear with her. 

She stops seeing the OM now. If not she can leave. 

If she wants counseling, she stops seeing OM now. If not, no counseling and she can leave. 

She is not to carry on in the affair and stay at the home. That is her basically flipping you off. 

The only way she stays to work on the marriage is if she stops seeing the OM in any form. No more dance class for his kid. 

If you don't pull yourself together and put you foot down, you will lose this.


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## commonsenseisn't

ddude23 said:


> I asked her if she is willing to cut him off completely, she told me she doesn't know if she can do that. Told me she thinks we can go to counseling. All while she still continues deciding what she wants.


I can tell you from experience and years of hindsight that you need to crush her notion that she has the ability to jerk you around by "deciding what she wants." A good way to do this is to swiftly and decisively blindside her with divorce papers. Be aware that she has already had sex with the guy and if you beg, plead and act weak it will just give you self loathing in the future when you will realize that you wouldn't have wanted her back anyway. BTDT 

If per chance, it turns out you are one of the exceptional lucky ones who's marriage can be saved, you can always drop the divorce proceedings.


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## ddude23

She has said it has not become physical in any sense. I'm told their relationship was strictly bound to texting or snap chatting. She has said she has developed "feelings". I'm not sure how this even started, I've feel like I have been hit by a freight train. No signs of unhappiness from her. For some reason I believe her... I don't know if I'm in denial about my wife with another man or what...


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## GusPolinski

ddude23 said:


> She has said it has not become physical in any sense. I'm told their relationship was strictly bound to texting or snap chatting. She has said she has developed "feelings". I'm not sure how this even started, I've feel like I have been hit by a freight train. No signs of unhappiness from her.


She's lying.


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## TX-SC

GusPolinski said:


> She's lying.


Yes, she is. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

Mandatory reading. Looks like you bought a lemon. I posted this exact thing yesterday to a guy who had the same situation. This stuff all follows the same pattern. It seems to be human nature, unfortunately. Seems like now a days many people are not mature and honorable enough to have long term relationships. Loyalty seems to be lost of many people.

You are going to have to get very strong very quick, if you want to go through this with any success. If it was me I would just cut my losses. People like your wife are just not worth the effort. Do you really want to waste your time on someone so disloyal? 

At the very least have her served. She needs consequences. But it may be that she is just broken. Most are.

Got to be honest here, the healthy reaction when your wife tells you this is to throw her out. That fact that you didn't do that shows why she was able to even think about doing this to you. I have to assume you have already established patterns in your relationship that shows you are willing to put up with her abuse. You need to change this and change it fast.

It's been months of her ****ting on you and everything you built with her. Why would you want to be someones consolation prize.


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## farsidejunky

Ddude, I want to impart a very simple philosophy for you to follow. 

But first, yes, this sucks. It turns your whole world upside down. You didn't realize it, but you unwittingly entered the ring and have been dealt a potential knockout blow...by the one person in this world who was supposed to have your back. So...you can lay down, close your eyes, and wish for the whole thing to be over...Or you can drink a big glass of **** it, get back on your feet, and actually fight back.

Should you choose the latter, your approach should be this simple:

"Wife, you have broken our vows. I don't want to lose you, but what I want even less is to share you. I will not be a victim of infidelity. If you can't decide, then I will make the choice to leave you. I will file for divorce on X day, and will move on."

Then find out who the OM is. Don't believe a word she tells you about his marital status, or anything she says for that matter. Expose the affair to family and friends. Expose to the OM's family if he has one.

Blow...This...Thing...Up.

Oh, and Ddude? You can bank on the fact that it went physical.


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## Graywolf2

ddude23 said:


> My wife confessed something informed me that she's been having an emotional affair with one of the fathers of one of these girls. Told me she is confused and doesn't know if these feelings are real or not and if she should follow them. This has been going on for four months. Swearing nothing physical has happened. All while she still continues deciding what she wants.


Let me get this straight. Just talking to this guy has her to the point that she can’t decide between the great life you have with her and the OM? He must be quite a talker. 
She has seen how miserable you have been for four months and can’t decide between the two of you? She must love you very much.

She has you for security and the OM for excitement. Why would she ever give that up if she wasn’t forced to? The OM is single. The best way to keep her is to tell her that the OM can have her.


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## commonsenseisn't

ddude23 said:


> For some reason I believe her... I don't know if I'm in denial about my wife with another man or what...


Why in the world would you believe a known cheater? By definition a cheater is dishonest. Dishonesty and lying are hallmarks of cheating. Get this through your head. It's a harsh reality and the sooner you wrap your mind and heart around this fact the sooner you will be able to get more control of your life. Ignore these facts at your peril. 

Also, just because she "supposedly" hasn't committed physical cheating yet, it doesn't minimize the fact that emotional cheating is very serious, especially for a woman. It's serious enough that many of us who have grappled with this hell have determined that in the future we would enact an immediate divorce if our spouse "only" emotionally cheated. 

Sorry to be blunt, but I've learned that when in this situation it is far preferable to deal in the currency of fact and reality instead of false doctrine. Good luck.


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## Archangel2

farsidejunky said:


> Ddude, I want to impart a very simple philosophy for you to follow.
> 
> But first, yes, this sucks. It turns your whole world upside down. You didn't realize it, but you unwittingly entered the ring and have been dealt a potential knockout blow...by the one person in this world who was supposed to have your back. So...you can lay down, close your eyes, and wish for the whole thing to be over...Or you can drink a big glass of **** it, get back on your feet, and actually fight back.
> 
> Should you choose the latter, your approach should be this simple:
> 
> "Wife, you have broken our vows. I don't want to lose you, but what I want even less is to share you. I will not be a victim of infidelity. If you can't decide, then I will make the choice to leave you. I will file for divorce on X day, and will move on."
> 
> Then find out who the OM is. Don't believe a word she tells you about his marital status, or anything she says for that matter. Expose the affair to family and friends. Expose to the OM's family if he has one.
> 
> Blow...This...Thing...Up.
> 
> Oh, and Ddude? You can bank on the fact that it went physical.


Ddude - You've been given great advice here. I hope you don't spin your wheels. There is an old saying that you must be willing to lose your marriage to save it,


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## Vinnydee

After my first fiancee and then the girlfriend after her, cheated on me, I stopped trying to be Mr. Nice Guy and let the female have her way. I am a very alpha male who thought that women felt that alpha males were dumb jocks or jerks. Once I stopped pretending to be someone I wasn't, I had a lot of girlfriends who never cheated on me. I am married 44 years. One day my wife told me that she had feelings for someone else. I was expecting it to be a guy but it was a woman. She said that she only fantasizes about women and in particular, her best friend. She also said that she was conflicted and did not want to cheat. We found a solution that would not work if she had feelings for another guy. Long story short, we shared her girlfriend for most of our marriage. 

We got a double whammy on the sterile side. Both of us are sterile so we never had kids. We do not mind because we had a lot of extra time and money to spoil ourselves and have a great lifestyle. From what we saw, having a kid sometimes drastically changes the relationship between husband and wife. You cannot miss what you never had.

The problem is that our emotions are governed by our brain and we feel what we feel due to a release of feel good hormones. No one knows why we are attracted to certain people and not others but once it happens, you cannot will the feelings to go away. They are either there or not. Even if your wife stops seeing the guy, her feelings will linger and perhaps make her unhappy in her marriage. You are in a difficult situation and perhaps she feels that she cannot share her emotions with you, which is why she feels that she has to go to someone else. 

Men know that guys will do whatever it takes to have sex with a woman, even lending a sympathetic ear. So you have a real problem on your hands that you have to handle or let it play out. The problem with feelings is that it makes you overlook the other person's faults and only see the good. You want to be with that person as much as possible even if it means hurting someone else. That is why your wife is conflicted. Perhaps you are like me and not a very emotional person. That is one big reason why my wife needs a woman in her life. I am very logical and think with my brain. My wife thinks with her heart which I think is illogical.  The fact that your wife told you can mean two things. She could truly be conflicted and hope that by telling you, you will do something to stop her from having feelings for the other guy. You might suggest that she teaches dance for another company because things are not going to get better as long as she keeps seeing that guy. 

The other thing could be is that she is letting you down easy so when she leaves you, it is not a big surprise and shock. I know how your wife feels because I once fell in love with one of the women I dated during my marriage. We obviously were nonmonogamous. I did not even like the other women much but I fell in love with her and could not stay away from her. I left my wife for a month until I came to my senses but even then, my love did not just go away because I wanted it to. The final solution for us was to move away and we did. That solved the problem. I got a job in another city as did my wife. We moved around a lot anyway for my business but this was one of two relocations we did to solve a problem in our marriage.

People do get addicted to other people and even though they know the sever consequences, will continue to see that other person. I know it first hand and have seen it with others. I wish you luck and perhaps you can examine your relationship and find a way to fix this problem.


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## straightshooter

DDude,

I'm late to this unfortunate party, and you have gotten some good advice, which you really do not want to listen to. Not unusual at all. You are playing what is called the "pick me game", and you are in big time denial.

Now maybe Im not being nice, but I am trying to help you. Your wife is CHEATING on you, and after 4 months of sexting and texting you can bet your 401K that if he is dovirced as she says that she has hooked up with him, probably more than once. You sure she is teaching dancing all tghe time? Any times shes arriving home late of "going out with girlfriends???

Now you can sit there and let her basically continue to tell you that she is going to continue with this OM until she decides what she wants, OR you can do something to knock her ass off the fence and get some truthful information. Should you choose the first option, all the guys and gals here will still support you when you find out she is banging this guy regularly and that you feel foolish for not making any attempt to intervene. Like I said, the "pick me game" does not work out well for you.

So far , maybe I missed it, she has NOT committed not have you demanded she stop doing whatever she says she is doing with this OM. Apparently, she has told you that until she makes up her mind you are in an open marriage not of your choosing. Does that sound like fun?? If not, keep reading.

(1) get a VAR and put it in her car. The tech experts here will tell you exactly what to buy and how to use it. You will find out in less than a few days what they are saying ( unfortunately for you in great detail but the truth), who else knows ( probably at least one of her girlfriends), and what she has told him now that she is caught. Most likely that they now have to go underground and be more careful. That is because so far you have not imposed any consequences at all so while you are at work tomorrow she will be texting him.
(2) get to an attorney and find out what your rights are. That does not mean you are getting immediately divorced. 
(3) tell her that YOU are not sharing your wife and that she is not keeping you in limbo while she explores her feelings. By the way, what does exploring her feeling mean. It means she is going to keep banging him and if it does not work out you will be waiting in her mind. Until she believes that that is not an option, she will not stop.
(4) if you go to the dance studio, bring a witness. You do not want to wind up in jail. Personally, your wife is your problem and I would not go there. He just wants to get laid, and she is the willing participant. 
(5) She has told you she has not been physical with him. That is most likely a lie. You tell her that you do not believe her and that she can take a polygraph to prove that if she wants to stay married. She will refuse that immediately, get mad, and that will give you your answer as to it not being physical.

And lastly, you DO NOT go to therapy with an ACTIVE cheater, which is what she is now and if you believe a word of what she is telling you, you will be on this forum a long long time. And you do not send her to IC for her problem. The chances are she will be told not to give you the truth because it will "hurt" you more, and she will most likely give the therapist her version of your marriage. YOU ONLY DO THERAPY WHEN YOU KNOW YOU HAVE THE COMPLETE TRUTH, which you do not.

You option is to ignore all of the above, and if you do that, good luck. You may need it.


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## Satya

Did YOU two go for 4+ months without sex when you were first dating?


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## Malaise

rockon said:


> Did you ask her why the sudden confession?


Because it's physical and she feels guilty. She wants him to file so she's not the bad guy.


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## GusPolinski

rockon said:


> Did you ask her why the sudden confession?


A little lie to conceal a larger one.


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## aine

All great advice here,

Does OM have a wife or GF, inform them asap so that he is busy doing damage control over that end
Let cheating wife know that you will not sit around waiting for her to choose the marriage or OM, she ends it now or she moves out
Tell family and friends, rely on a sibling or close friend for emotional support. Do not hide what is happening, exposure is the best thing moving forward, as it holds her accountable
Go to the gym, get good rest and diet, good sleep as far as possible, take care of you
Go see a lawyer and see what they say
Do 180 on your wife, no begging, pleading, crying, act cool and controlled, (cry in private). Go out as much as possible, only engage on non relationship issues. Let her have what she wants and act accordingly


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## Spicy

I'm so very sorry honey for the shock and pain you are going through. I am very curious to hear what the circumstances were that she opted to tell you about this emotional affair? If you didn't catch her, and she came to you on her own, she may very well be telling you the truth. 

I know I will be in the minority here, but I do think it is possible that it hadn't become physical yet. Good people do make mistakes, and many of them could be slow to allow something to go from emotional to physical. Telling themselves it was "harmless flirting" they have done or the like.

So if I look at this from the thought process of her having gotten emotionally involved with him, but then confessed to you about it because she was feeling guilty, there could be a lot of hope still possible for your marriage. 

I agree with other posters who have said these types of things:

She has to have no contact with the OM. If she is under contract to teach his daughter, she may need to reimburse the family and also pay for another teacher to replace her.

Verify if OM is indeed divorced or not, and if he isn't, tell his wife. If he is, tell his family. Also tell your wife's parents and your parents. 

If she one more time says she doesn't know if she can stay away from him, serve her divorce papers. You can stop them anytime, but this will bring her back into reality.


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## honcho

ddude23 said:


> She has said it has not become physical in any sense. I'm told their relationship was strictly bound to texting or snap chatting. She has said she has developed "feelings". I'm not sure how this even started, I've feel like I have been hit by a freight train. No signs of unhappiness from her. For some reason I believe her... I don't know if I'm in denial about my wife with another man or what...


Nobody gets the full and honest confession in the beginning, it's called trickle truth. You believe because you want to believe her, not because she is believable. Yes, you've been hit by a train, your in shock right now. 

Your wife thinks she holds all the cards right now, you need to take back control of your life. Get an appointment with a lawyer and find out what the divorce laws in your state are. Investigate her cell phone/computer records. Do not try and protect her or the situation, start exposing this affair, they thrive on secrecy. The quicker and more "in control" you appear the more she will question her decisions.


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## mickybill

I hope that Spicy ^ is right but in so many of these post the "swearing that nothing happened" is sadly a lie. 

Until she admits more with TT, or you dig and find some evidence, you won't know the truth and will believe that 2 adults who are in an affair, didn't hookup in 4 months.
Since she is on the fence it may be time for to decide for her. The only thing you can do is tell her to go as you cannot force her to stay. File D papers, you can stop the D at any time.
Good chance he is not 100% divorced. Do some investigating.

Work thru the shock and get strong, talk to your friends and family in real life.


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## JohnA

@drifting on advise is sound regardless if OM is married or not. He is there to support his daughters love of dance, not use his daughter as a prop to get laid. Second her business is at risk. I would ask the female posters how they would feel if their husband or ex did the same thing how it would impact the WW business. Two classic posts I have saved:


Part one Basic links for a BS to know*

First accept that your WS is already gone. *All forms of adultery are exit events. *If the marriage reaches this point you will be divorced. *Adultery is not an affair. *Saying it is would be like comparing self defense homicide to murder. *They are not the same. *If you take swift action your spouse may ask to reconcile but for today accept it is over,

This link will help you build a buffer from the emotional upheaval in your life and think clearly: *remember clarity is the goal:*Critical Readings For Separation and Divorce - LoveShack.org Community Forums

This link while posted for a WS looking to reconcile will actual provide you a great deal of insight into first yourself and then if *reconciliation is attempted what to look for.
Things that every wayward spouse needs to know - LoveShack.org Community Forums

This link will provide you with why and how your WS will respond and is a good point to start to understand the Fog and blame shifting. *Your WS will attempt to justify their choices. *The more angry their response, the more adamant they are that this is your fault is actually a indication that they are in a panic and are trying to shift blame. *Push back hard and keep pushing back. *For example I don't feel connect to you because ..... *Your response: fine but that is a reason for divorce not adultery.
Critical Readings For Separation and Divorce - LoveShack.org Community Forums

Exposure is a must. *Even if you have no desire to reconcile you need to drive the OP out of your divorce. *The quickest way to turn a simple divorce into a nightmare is to have a third party telling your WS "that's not fair to you". *Remember your spouse will need to "win" big in the divorce to prove to the work what a horrible person you are. *Your not, so expose*Critical Readings For Separation and Divorce - LoveShack.org Community Forums
Note you need to exposure to children if you have them. *This site recommends to expose to any child over the age of four, *Do so without graphic details and own those issues that are your's that created the environment that your spouse choose to respond to by committing adultery.*

Additional Reading links*

How to survive * * *How to Survive an Affair

First here to work towards forgiveness*
The Policy of Joint Agreement

What is Just Compensation? - Marriage Builders® Forums


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## JohnA

@Marc878 shared this with me . Really helpful so I thought I would share.

12 Things I Learned in the First 12 Weeks of the Affair

Wayfarer 6 February, 2014
1. Tears Don’t Move Active Cheaters
Tears Don't Move Active CheatersWe can’t understand how our upset and devastation can be so cruelly and cavalierly dismissed or ignored, and yet it happens time and time again. We sob and wail and gnash teeth. We guilt and accuse and reproach. And yet, it’s as if they’ve been coated with some sort of emotional Teflon! All our grief and distress slides off them like a fried egg in a non-stick pan. It doesn’t even stick if we break apart.

An active cheater will do anything they can to separate themselves from any form of histrionics. They might tell themselves that it’s just manipulative melodrama, designed to make them feel badly about what they’re doing. They might even enjoy warm and fuzzy feelings that they’re so desirable that they have you swooning and fighting over them. They are most probably sharing your anguish as a source of great amusement and delighted ridicule between them and their affair partner.

If you don’t find yourself crying through this at some point, something’s wrong. Tears are your physical expression of your emotional state, and even if they don’t make you feel better, there is some relief to releasing the emotional floodgates.

“It is some relief to weep; grief is satisfied and carried off by tears.”
~ Ovid
If you do cry, don’t make a performance out of it for your cheater. Take yourself somewhere quiet and cry, scream, and vent it out, just for yourself.

2. Your Commitment Doesn’t Trump Their Entitlement
Part of remaining stuck in the worst of it is your refusal to accept your new reality. It’s incredibly difficult to understand why they don’t reciprocate when you’re committed and faithful. The Why? question becomes such a huge obstacle that you just can’t see beyond.

“Resilience is accepting your new reality, even if it’s less good than the one you had before. You can fight it, you can do nothing but scream about what you’ve lost, or you can accept that and try to put together something that’s good.”
~ Elizabeth Edwards
A cheater who continues an affair after it has been exposed or discovered, feels entitled to do so. They might believe that they are in love with their affair partner, or they might believe that you would never leave them. They could also feel that they deserve their affair as some karmic balance for some hurt or misfortune in their life.

No matter their reason, your continued investment and love won’t effect change in them. They have committed to a course of action, they’ve already decided that their affair is more important to them than the loss of you and their marriage. They may even enjoy having you at home, cooking, cleaning, washing their socks, and looking after the bills and the kids – in fact, you might be giving them all the at-home support that they need to be able to continue their affair.

3. There Can be Real Kindness in Strangers
Don’t underestimate the depth of compassion and support you find in infidelity support forums, and other support groups. Don’t underestimate how willing perfect strangers can be to offer you real and practical support and assistance.

The Kindness of Strangers

I tend not to personalize the posts to this site, but I am going to take this opportunity to thank the strangers who reached out to me with offers of financial help, care packages, and going out of their way to whisk me away from the madness for a few hours, and even buy me dinner. My gratitude to these people is immense – their kindness and support humbles me to this day. Not all the people who did let me lean on them will ever read this post, but the sentiment is out there in the cosmos, and this site exists partly in their honor.

4. Compassion Comes in Many Forms, and it Doesn’t Always Agree With You
Have you found yourself being irritated, angry, or upset with someone in an infidelity support forum, who has posted something that made you uncomfortable or annoyed you? There are a lot of good people on forums like these, whose perspective and experience gives them a different insight into your situation. Many people can see an alternative reality to the one that you see. Other people can view holes in your rationale, inconsistencies with your thinking, and when your choices seem unhealthy. That someone cares enough to take the time and make the effort to respond to you is their gift to you.

It’s easy to only see compassion in those whose views, beliefs, and style mirror your own, but people in support forums are there because they want to help others through a difficult situation. In my first 12 weeks, I found that no matter how different the views were to mine, people were there to listen, respond, and listen some more. People give up their free time in support forums willingly, and without an expectation of any reciprocation or compensation. Those people were a lifeline for me then – our differences did not lessen their concern and compassion, nor my gratitude for it.

6. Looking Through Your Wedding Photographs as a Terrible Idea
Enough said really. It’s easy to make the mistake of thinking that you know better, that it won’t affect you negatively. It will – there may not be an immediate fallout, but the tears and the upset will come. Yes, I speak from specific experience!

Try to put these types of photographs and memorabilia out of the way while your cheater is still in their affair. Keep them safely (don’t burn them in a fit of pique) until you’re emotionally ready to make a decision about keeping them or otherwise.

7. Laugh Often and Loudly
Chat IconsmallTransI know, it can feel like you will never laugh again, but you will, I promise you. Try to have some fun away from the affair drama – if you want someone to lift your spirits who understands what you’re going through, you are always welcome in the IHG Chat Room. Just pop in and say that you need some distraction from the gravity and angst of it all. Call a friend, go out for coffee, go to a movie … anything that will redirect you and let you laugh a little. It’s worth it.

8. There’s Always Someone Trying to Impose Their Agenda on You
Society, religious counselors, marriage counselors, pro-marriage forums, pro-divorce forums, sex addiction proponents, family, friends … Everyone has an agenda.

Some view your marriage remaining intact as the primary goal post-infidelity. Others may have a personal stake in your relationship and perhaps a personal axe to grind with your cheater. People give advice based in their own version of an ideal outcome for you – and that outcome might not be in your sole or best interests.

This site is no different. We do have an agenda, and it’s scrawled in bold type on nearly every page of the website. Our agenda is that you emerge from the affair with clear thinking, empowered to move forward in your life towards your own goals, your self-esteem intact, your own welfare secured, and you fully aware of the implications and authentic reasons behind your own decisions.

We won’t judge you negatively for deciding to stay for financial reasons, or leaving because you can get a really fantastic divorce settlement – in fact, we give you props for not shrouding it in inauthentic – though perhaps more ‘socially acceptable’ – excuses.

9. Affairs Highlight Patterns
Once you’ve had a few months of standing back and observing and questioning your active cheater’s behaviors, you will start to see patterns emerge.

The faithful spouse generally will claim that their cheater’s affair is completely out of character, and it can certainly feel that way. But if you start to peel back the layers, you can start to identify patterns in their behavior that are echoed in their affair mind-set. After a while it becomes obvious that the affair is just an extension of already-present attitudes and world view, it’s just that you had no cause to really examine it before. Maybe you can identify your cheater’s traits in these?:

I am always hard done by and downtrodden, treated badly by everyone, even though I’ve done nothing to deserve it.
I want the kind of good life I see in others and in the media so will take it where I can in that new TV, or designer suit, or big house. I deserve/am owed this minimum happiness.
My dysfunctional childhood has affected me and that’s why I can behave badly, but if you love me, you’ll understand me and make allowances.
I have an issue with impulse control and that’s why we’re deeply in debt.
I’ve always flirted and like to be the center of attention – it’s harmless.
I am edgy and deep and have a greater understanding of the meaning of life than others.
I am not constrained by conventional societal rules and structures, and I am amused and superior to those who buy into such artificial constructs.
My world view is one that I shall never change, and I will not be swayed into changing my attitudes, approach, views, or opinions.
10. You are Not the Person They Married
We all change over time, and we often change as a result of our changing circumstances. Being single, living by your own say so, under your own financial steam, and loving your independence while having fun in your relationship might be where you started.

2.4 kids, a dog, and a mortgage later, laundry bins overflowing, bills piling up on your desk, the car dying, a job you hate but pays well enough to support the family … life has taken its toll. You probably stopped hobbies you loved, lost touch with people you loved and had fun with, you might not be able to afford to keep going to kick boxing and cooking cruises … all these things change you.

Use this time to start to relearn how to be you. Discard the parts of you that you collected along the way that you don’t like so much, and focus on the parts of you that you love. Do things that bring out your verve for life, your fun side, your aspirations and flights of fancy. Don’t let their affair turn you into a shriveled, angry, codependent shadow of yourself.

11. Let Go
Let GoI am not suggesting you give up if you harbor dreams of a future with your active cheater, but I am saying that you have to look at this eyes wide open. They’ve chosen. They’ve chosen their affair over your relationship, and I know how it hurts to read that. A good friend of mine told me, “You lost, accept it and move on.” Ouch. But he was 100% on point.

Clinging on to an active cheater will likely cause them to ricochet further into their affair, and further away from you. Let go. Start to focus on your own life – don’t hold onto theirs by stalking them (or the affair partner) on Facebook. Stop trying to stay involved in your cheater’s life and relationship by checking their phone, reading their emails, trying to engage them in meaningful discussions about your marriage. Don’t weaponize your kids against them. Let go.

A cheater may return, they may not. The question isn’t what they’re doing – the question is about YOU and YOUR life, and how you want to live.

Let go – start living in singledom – figure out how to fix the faucet, go where you want when you want, start living a life – plug back into who you are. Leave them to it. If they come back, it shouldn’t be automatic that you accept them – by then, you might prefer life without them, to life with them.

12. Affair Fog? It’s You Who’s in it!
Your emotions are a bad influence on you right now. I know, you feel how you feel and you can’t switch that off very easily, even if you wanted to. However, if you removed the emotions that are clouding this whole situation and really looked at your cheater, who they are, how they behaved when the chips were down, how they responded to your anguish, it’s probably an ugly picture.

Two questions I often pose in the Chat Room here, are these:

1. If you met this person (your active cheater) for the first time, and saw all of this in them, would you even date them, let alone commit your whole future to them?

I haven’t yet had a single person answer that affirmatively with any seriousness.

2. If you were a multi billionaire, would you be making the choices that you are currently making?

Again, I have yet to hear anyone answer that they would make identical choices.

Our responses to this mess are influenced by our emotional state, our circumstances, and our personal values. The problem with our emotional state affecting our responses is that our feelings change, they’re mutable. Positive or negative feelings can wax and wane, and as such, they’re a really poor foundation upon which to base your decisions.

The reality that you face of financial insecurity, dependence, your home, your children, your future, is real. Try to put aside your emotional clouding and make choices that improve on each of those situations, preparing for the eventuality that you could well be facing life without your cheater. Think of how you feel today as an illusion that will change with time … because your feelings will eventually change towards an active cheater flaunting their affair.

Your Future
You can’t predict your future, but you can make robust and sensible plans that will assure your security, well-being, and independence. You know your circumstances today, and you know if they provide you with independent means, an ability to provide yourself a home and support yourself without reliance on anyone else. If that is NOT where your life is, that is where to start heading. Your life and happiness is not contingent on your active cheater and THEIR choices.

Get your life on track and viable in its own right, and then, if your cheater comes to you, cap in hand, you will have a new kickass attitude, a new focus, and a new sense of self-worth that says, “You know what? If you think you’re a good potential mate for my future, prove it.” And who knows, by then you might be dating someone else, who has never cheated on anyone, and you might find you prefer it.

When your world implodes you have to adapt to survive and thrive. You have to seize the opportunity to become who you want to be, who you are proud to be, even if your newly shaped peg doesn’t fit into the mold of your old hole.


Dang I lost my copy of just let them go!!! Anyone got a link?


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## rzmpf

Who knows if it's "just" a EA or already a PA or about to be a PA. Maybe it is of importance for you, maybe not.

She is basically asking you for permission to be with OM while continuing to be married to you. You either throw down the hammer and crush this thing (and maybe your marriage in the process if she is not willing or able to give the A up and work on herself, or you may want to D regardless) or you drag along with counseling, therapy, "working on your M" and other stuff that give her time and are signs of weakness and will be interpreted as permission for her to continue the A ("BH did not leave me although I told him I can't leave OM alone so he must be ok.").

That's what the "I don't know if I can't go NC with him." is about. She does not want to end it, if you don't show her consequences you are basically allowing her to continue.

You have to show her that you will not accept this behaviour. No MC while she is still in contact. Get legal counsel, separate finances, secure assets, have D papers drawn up, collect info for exposure etc. You have to hit hard.


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## RWB

The Dude,

You will never "Nice" her back. Her reasoning is so clouded in infatuation the decade you have been together means nothing at this point. 

She says the affair has been going on 4+ months. I would suspect much longer. Always remember... Cheaters always lie to minimize truth. 

Physical? She's not a 15 year old high schooler. 

The confession? Either it's gone physical or she wants it to. My guess she's baiting you to file for divorce to "wash her hands" of guilt.

It's ultimatum time... don't play the "pick me" dance.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Wake up sir! It is physical and time for BOLD action from you. Shock and awe is what you need. Nice in this situation in an exercise in futility. I would definitely show up at the class an confront. Step 1. Next you expose to her family and your family and close friends. Step 2. Remove all photos of you and her that are weding related. Step 3.
Next you take off your ring and hand it to het letting her know you will not live in I fidelity and that she has a decision to make. Step 4.

This in my opinion should be done the same day you confrontation her class. You are in a precarious position, but the pick me dance shows nothing but weakness. Be bold, shock her. What do you have to lose but your self respect. OH, one last thing, kick her out of your bedroom for the time being.

And yes, it is physical. She is in the land of unicorns and rainbows right now. Your mission is to knock her down to earth.


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## Dr. Stupid

Emotional affairs are just as bad as physical affairs. Her body is not a territory to be conquered, it is freely given after the heart has been won. Her heart has been won. She's probably given her body as a reward. 

Go get tested for STDs, and make sure that she knows that you're doing that. Ignore her claims of physical fidelity, because she's done far worse already. 

As far as admitting her EA, this is most likely due to it being obvious to another party or parties, and she feels the need to control the narrative before someone else does.


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## badmemory

ddude23 said:


> She has said it has not become physical in any sense. I'm told their relationship was strictly bound to texting or snap chatting. She has said she has developed "feelings". I'm not sure how this even started, I've feel like I have been hit by a freight train. No signs of unhappiness from her. *For some reason I believe her... I don't know if I'm in denial about my wife with another man or what.*..


ddude,

The likelihood of this not being physical, with 4 months of contact (if that's true), the opportunity to meet, and her risky confession; is *extremely small*. To such an extent that you have to assume it's a PA, until you have evidence to the contrary. Cheaters lie. Nearly all of them.

I'm not sure why she confessed, but it's probably for one or both of two reasons - someone else found out about and she feared they would tell you, so she's trying to get in front of it by only admitting to an EA; and/or she's at the point in her A where she's willing to risk her marriage to open the door to be with him regularly. You can bet that they've discussed that scenario. 

As others have advised, and this can't be emphasized enough - don't allow yourself to be her plan B. Take action now. Not tomorrow, not next week. That is, if you want a chance to save your marriage. 

She will stop contact immediately, and allow you to verify that no-contact, or you will start the divorce process immediately. No trial separation, no time for her to think it through, no negotiation. It's simply a binary choice for her. You will not give her the opportunity to take him for a test run, while you stand by and be her safety net.

Let us know what she decides and we can go from there.


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## ddude23

I feel like she's going back and forth on what she wants to do. She has not mentioned divorce. She wants to try a counsel session today and see how it goes. I feel like maybe it can't hurt. To get everything out maybe. I'm just not understanding at all. Now I feel stupid for believing her about not being physical. I was looking at our wedding pictures, looking at all texts and notes she's given over the years telling me she loves me. I feel horrible and like my stomach is about to drop. 

My sister is a lawyer, a very good one at that and she's in the same town as us. I'm going to give her a call and ask to meet with her. She has always told me if I ever needed anything then to go to her. I feel like I am just going to vent about everything.


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## Taxman

Listen to Lonely Husband. Tough love time.
Go to the class and confront both of them. In the loudest voice possible, tell all of the parents that she is having an affair with one of the fathers. That should tie a can to her tail. Daddy dearest, tell him the now his kid know and his ex will find out soon.

The wife, she gets a set of divorce papers. Let her know in no uncertain terms that her life as she knew it is over. If she wants him, then go to him WITH ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, NOT EVEN HER REPUTATION. As far as everyone will know, she is a *****. (Get tough, be tough, she needs to be shocked half to death.)

After the smoke clears, then and only then can you assess whether you want this marriage. AND LET HER KNOW THAT THE MARRIAGE IS NOW OVER FOR YOU! SHE NEEDS TO EARN YOU BACK.


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## straightshooter

ddude23 said:


> I feel like she's going back and forth on what she wants to do. She has not mentioned divorce. She wants to try a counsel session today and see how it goes. I feel like maybe it can't hurt. To get everything out maybe. I'm just not understanding at all. Now I feel stupid for believing her about not being physical. I was looking at our wedding pictures, looking at all texts and notes she's given over the years telling me she loves me. I feel horrible and like my stomach is about to drop.
> 
> My sister is a lawyer, a very good one at that and she's in the same town as us. I'm going to give her a call and ask to meet with her. She has always told me if I ever needed anything then to go to her. I feel like I am just going to vent about everything.


Dude,

For heavens sake, wake up. She wants some therapist to tell her its OK and that she can continue to have contact with him until she sorts it out. HAS SHE OFFERED TO STOP THE AFFAIR??? if the answer to that is no, what the hell are you going to therapy for, to find out why she wants to have sex with both of you. her deciding if she wants to continue to see where it goes means you share your wife. o you get that????

You do not go to therapy with an active cheater. So when you leave this session, is it Ok with you for her to go to dance class tonight to be with him????


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## Thorburn

Counseling when one is involved in an affair it not typically helpful. If you go, be silent, don't say a word. You will hear a bunch of crap from your wife, DON'T RESPOND. It will more than likely be hateful. You have been warned.

You have been gut punched. Need to do the 180.

Typically a cheater will minimize the truth. e.g. I only sex texted him a few times. In my instance, my wife sex texted her first guy, thousands of times, sometimes staying up till 5:30 A.M., get a few hours sleep and start up again at 7:30, A.M. for weeks on end. Or we only kissed=cheater code for "We Had Sex". or "we only had sex once"=cheater code for "We had sex many times". 

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Display strength. My FWW saw a side of me she wish she had never seen. I tried to be a nice guy after my time in the Corps. I exposed to POSOM wife, friends, family (hers and mine)took off my ring and left it on our dresser,burned our bed in a bondfire and texted her a picture and left town for almost six weeks.

Point being her head was spinning like a tornado by the time I got done.

I will impart to you these words from Parris...improvise, adapt, and overcome. You are at war for your marriage. Women respect strength not weakness. Counseling right now in my opinion is worthless. My guess is she will blameshift to the reason for affair to you in the session. If this occurs get up and walk out.


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## Bananapeel

You should go to counseling, but not with her. Go by yourself so you can figure out how you want to proceed and handle the situation. I went to one counseling session with my XWW, and the only topic I was willing to discuss was how to break the divorce to our kids and what to do to be able to co-parent together. Now my situation was she had a full blown PA, so I tossed her out without any attempt to reconcile.


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## farsidejunky

If you do walk out of the counseling session due to blame shifting, make sure you are not angry or emotional when you do so.

Look at the counselor and say:

"It is unfortunate that my wife has called me in here to justify why it was okay for her to open herself emotionally and sexually with another man. I will not live in infidelity. She either immediately breaks contact 100%, permanently, forever, with the other man, and takes steps to show she can be a trustworthy partner again, or the marriage ends. This is not a negotiation. Every day that passes in which she continues in her affair reduces the likelihood of my forgiveness."

Draw your line in the sand. Hold that line; no wiggling, no excuses, no gaslighting, no blameshifting. If she will not agree to that, you consult an attorney, file for divorce, and have her served at her place of employment as that is where the affair occurred.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Your mantra for the day is "Strength " repeat this to yourself over and over. Build yourself up mentally. You have been provided solid and consistent advice. You know what you have to do. Best to you in this **** storm.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Farside. That is some solid advice sir.


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## moth-into-flame

Some folks here are giving you advice on how to save your marriage. Unfortunately, that ball really is not in your court. The only thing you are in control of is yourself and what you decide to do. She has made it clear that you are not her number one choice anymore - that at best you're second fiddle. Does it not make you extremely angry that your wife is saying "well, I think I love someone else, and I need time to decide whether I'm going to dump you and go with this guy that I have serious feelings for - or maybe, just maybe, I'll change my mind and pick you". Do you realize what she thinks of you and your marriage? Not much. She's said, in so many words, you don't mean jack **** to her.

I'm sorry, but your wife is having sex with this man. She is a selfish, cruel person who only cares about her own immediate wants and desires. Even if she does you some huge favor and "picks you", she has shown what she is - a cheater who is 100% willing to throw you away like a piece of trash to get what she wants at any particular time. It's not like you can fix this, get her to not have feelings for the other man, come back to you, then everything is A-OK. She's no longer the woman you married. If she doesn't leave you for this man (she already has, actually - she's giving her body and heart to him, not you), she will leave you for the next - or at the very least start up another affair. 

This is brutal - we know. We've been there. Your wife is showing you her true colors - the kind of person she really is. This isn't a blip or a mistake. This is who she is - a cheater and a betrayer who doesn't give a **** about you or anyone else - only herself. 

I would hope you see this before it's too late, tell her "he's all yours. enjoy your life together", tell his wife (if he's married) and file for divorce. Your wife is a poisonous, toxic person who will burn you to the ground. Save yourself. Trust me. Otherwise things are going to get a whole lot uglier and even more painful for you - hard as that is to fathom.


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## Cynthia

ddude23 said:


> I feel like she's going back and forth on what she wants to do. She has not mentioned divorce. She wants to try a counsel session today and see how it goes. I feel like maybe it can't hurt. To get everything out maybe. I'm just not understanding at all. Now I feel stupid for believing her about not being physical. I was looking at our wedding pictures, looking at all texts and notes she's given over the years telling me she loves me. I feel horrible and like my stomach is about to drop.
> 
> My sister is a lawyer, a very good one at that and she's in the same town as us. I'm going to give her a call and ask to meet with her. She has always told me if I ever needed anything then to go to her. I feel like I am just going to vent about everything.


It doesn't matter what you have done or not done in your marriage. This affair is 100% not your fault. Honorable, trustworthy people do not have affairs. They act like adults and deal with the issues that are bothering them and they work through it with their spouse. There is absolutely no reason to discuss any marriage issues with your wife until she has stopped being a cheating, lying, dishonorable wife and owns her dysfunction that would cause her to betray you. Until that happens there is nothing to discuss.


If there is any hope for your marriage, you will take the advice you have been given on this thread.
If you go to counseling with her, use the appointment to do what farsidejunky says below. vvvvvv



farsidejunky said:


> If you do walk out of the counseling session due to blame shifting, make sure you are not angry or emotional when you do so.
> 
> Look at the counselor and say:
> 
> "It is unfortunate that my wife has called me in here to justify why it was okay for her to open herself emotionally and sexually with another man. I will not live in infidelity. She either immediately breaks contact 100%, permanently, forever, with the other man, and takes steps to show she can be a trustworthy partner again, or the marriage ends. This is not a negotiation. Every day that passes in which she continues in her affair reduces the likelihood of my forgiveness."
> 
> Draw your line in the sand. Hold that line; no wiggling, no excuses, no gaslighting, no blameshifting. If she will not agree to that, you consult an attorney, file for divorce, and have her served at her place of employment as that is where the affair occurred.


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## Grapes

You really have to find your Big Boy Pant and pull them up. I was you once. All woes is me. pick me pick me. Ya know what that got me? That got me R (when she wanted it) then another affair 4 years later. I am now D'ing her ass and have finally woken up.

The ONLY thing that will make you feel better is taking control of the situation. Take control and stop letting her have it!

Answer this simple question for your path. answer it truthfully to yourself even if you dont post it.

Suppose your absolute best friend, the guy that would take a bullet for you and visa versa came to you with this story. What would your advice be to him? If you answer that objectively you will know what you have to do.

Listen to these guys on this thread. Your not the first, stories like yours are all the same because cheaters all have the same script. Thats why the veterans here seem to be able to predict the future.. Its all predictable. 

Take control of your life back, it will help you feel better. and find your freaking anger. your W is cheating on you. you SHOULD BE PISSED OFF!! I think im angrier from reading your story then you are living it!


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## moth-into-flame

Jessica38 said:


> And since affairs thrive on secrecy, exposure usually stops them in their tracks.


I don't get this mentality - forcing an affair to stop doesn't solve the problem. Forcing someone's hand to stop their horrible behavior doesn't make the behavior go away, or make them somehow come around, or stop being a cheater. If you want to burn down an affair for the sake of burning it down - to prevent them from enjoying their devious, cruel, disgusting behavior, by all means. But shutting it down will not solve the problem - which is that your spouse doesn't love you anymore, that they are by nature a liar, cruel, narcissistic, devious, deceitful and willing to do anything to anyone to get what they want, when they want it. Shutting down an affair _may_ kill the affair (probably not), but it will *not* change the nature of the cheater.


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## moth-into-flame

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> ddude23, read your situation. The other posters have given you good advice, but I'll stress that you make an appointment with a Dr. and get a prescription for antidepressants. You are only on the beginning of a very long ride with very low lows. I wish I had done it sooner when my H had an affair. It helps even out your emotions, but doesn't numb you. If you find you can't sleep, ask for a sleep-aid that doesn't make you groggy the next day. That combination does wonders to at least help you have a normal day/night cycle, and let your mind rest so you can face the problems that will inevitably face you in this situation.
> 
> Your wife has already chosen what she wants to do. Now it is your turn: either she stops seeing him immediately, with a no-contact letter, or she moves out.
> 
> 
> Do not overlook the advice to let the other man's wife know what he has been up to while dropping off their daughter at dance class. It is not for vengeance, but to help end the affair, and help burst their fairy-tale bubble to bring them back to real life.


I think giving medical advice (ie telling someone to go on antidepressants when you're not a doctor and certainly aren't capable of diagnosing depression over the internet) is a dangerous game to play.

See your Doctor, by all means - but let them decide if anti-depressants are required. I was on antidepressants during my entire marriage, and got *off* of them when I left my cheating wife.


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## mickybill

A counseling session is a waste while she is still seeing the OM. It'll be a pity party for her to the the therapist about all the times that you have neglected her. She is in control of this, she has known about it for 4-8 months, you JUST FOUND OUT about it are like the cartoon character who got hit on the head with a frying pan...To "save" anything you need to get it together. Fast.

You will never be able to get inside her head to understand what she wants. All you know is she doesn't want you and is not really concerned about you anymore. So you need to care about you. Don;t be the sad guy, the pick me guy. Most of us do that and it doesn't work. 

Do not care about her not mentioning divorce, you can do that. Talk to your sister, she can do the papers over the weekend. Don't **** around. This is real....

I wonder what the school and the dance moms think about the hottie teacher banging the dance dad(s)

Take control, you don;t want to be a passenger on this ride.


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## moth-into-flame

Bananapeel said:


> You should go to counseling, but not with her. Go by yourself so you can figure out how you want to proceed and handle the situation. I went to one counseling session with my XWW, and the only topic I was willing to discuss was how to break the divorce to our kids and what to do to be able to co-parent together. Now my situation was she had a full blown PA, so I tossed her out without any attempt to reconcile.


This is how you do it. Take back your power.

Divorce is painful and awful. Staying with a cheater is worse - *if* she _allows_ that to happen. The marriage is not yours to save. It's yours to end. She mortally wounded it - it's up to you to put it out of its misery. Sad but true.

I regained my pride and self respect when I ended the false reconciliation with my exww. I still maintain that pride - knowing I had the strength and self respect to say "I am not willing to have someone who would treat me like their worst enemy in my life any longer. Goodbye".


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## drifting on

ddude23

I know the posters here seem harsh, myself included telling you to insert yourself into OM's face. The fact of this is, being nice to her now is weakness. I'm not saying to be mean or cruel, but to say MC won't work. IC won't work for her, she will only lie to her IC anyway. 

Here is what I learned, I was in shock, disbelief, devastated, and destroyed. I stood alone surrounded by nothing but smoking ruins of what my world had essentially been at this point in my life. I lost my beliefs, I lost my faith in God, I was truly alone. I attempted suicide, I failed, so it's very important you seek professional help. I'm not saying you will attempt suicide, but I can tell you your thought process is severely affected by your trauma. 

First thing you need to do is clear your head. Understand your thoughts are racing and fleeting now. Begin to think what you may decide to do now, but I recommend a big decision needs to wait six months. As I said earlier you need to file for divorce, you can stop this later on if you decide to. Have your wife served at work, this will begin to help the fantasy to crumble. When your wife is at work, move her belongings to a spare room. She is forbidden from the marital bed until she decides she is for your marriage. Begin the 180, you can find this here at TAM. 

You need to go to her work, confront OM, get his name and search him through social media accounts such as, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and whatever else you find him in. Get to know him well without talking to him after you have confronted him. Tell your wife's parents what is happening, tell them your wife may need support at this time. Tell her family you have filed for divorce, you listed adultery and OM as the reasons for divorce. Be at every dance class OM's daughter attends with your wife as instructor. Do not allow either of them to breathe without you in there faces. 

You need to truly show you are content with divorcing and losing this marriage. Do not help or speak to your wife about anything. Separate finances and stop funding whatever you do for her. Talk to your attorney about the legal way to do this. Show her that her world of fantasy is ending now, consequences are now rapidly coming her way. Tell her the divorce is going to be streamlined by you to the fastest conclusion as long as no contact with OM is not continuing.


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## Jus260

GusPolinski said:


> She's lying.


I wonder how many times that class has been randomly cancelled over the last four months.


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## Jessica38

moth-into-flame said:


> I don't get this mentality - forcing an affair to stop doesn't solve the problem. Forcing someone's hand to stop their horrible behavior doesn't make the behavior go away, or make them somehow come around, or stop being a cheater. If you want to burn down an affair for the sake of burning it down - to prevent them from enjoying their devious, cruel, disgusting behavior, by all means. But shutting it down will not solve the problem - which is that your spouse doesn't love you anymore, that they are by nature a liar, cruel, narcissistic, devious, deceitful and willing to do anything to anyone to get what they want, when they want it. Shutting down an affair _may_ kill the affair (probably not), but it will *not* change the nature of the cheater.


Dr. Harley in Surviving an Affair says we're all hard wired to cheat. The solution is to make sure you're not putting yourself in tempting situations. The OP's wife allowed herself to develop feelings for the OM and take it further by allowing personal, private contact via text, which I agree is poor behavior and boundaries. She put herself in this situation. There is still a possibility that she did not have a PA, and that she can prevent this from happening again by learning how to instill appropriate boundaries in the future. This is only if the OP is willing to reconcile with her- he has every right to decide not to, of course. An EA is still cheating.


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## MyRevelation

dude,

I've not posted to you, but there is one piece of advice that's been offered that I would act upon immediately. For my own self-respect, I would confront the OM in person at the next class, and very calmly, but sternly, inform him that him and his daughter are no longer welcome to participate in your WW's classes and unless he wants things to get real public, he'll pack up their **** and leave NOW and never come back.

I'd deal with my WW later, but right now you need a firm show of strength to both OM and WW. 

If I find someone fishing in my pond, my first action is to run him off with a warning to never return ... no matter if my W gave him permission, he's not fishing in my pond. Now some will find that approach quite Neanderthal and possessive, but DAMMIT it was promised to me and only me, and I will defend it against all trespassers. Now after speaking with my WW, I very well may choose to GIVE him my pond, but I will defend it while it is mine.

Time to screw up your self-respect with a good dose of righteous indignation and defend your property against all trespassers.


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## Hopeful Cynic

ddude23 said:


> I feel like she's going back and forth on what she wants to do. She has not mentioned divorce. She wants to try a counsel session today and see how it goes. I feel like maybe it can't hurt. To get everything out maybe. I'm just not understanding at all. Now I feel stupid for believing her about not being physical. I was looking at our wedding pictures, looking at all texts and notes she's given over the years telling me she loves me. I feel horrible and like my stomach is about to drop.





Thorburn said:


> Counseling when one is involved in an affair it not typically helpful. If you go, be silent, don't say a word. You will hear a bunch of crap from your wife, DON'T RESPOND. It will more than likely be hateful. You have been warned.


I agree with @Thorburn. Most counsellors are trained in helping people who want to stay married but need help communicating with each other. Your issue is not (only) lack of communication, but the fact that there is a third person in your marriage. And if your wife thought counselling would have helped your marriage, she would have suggested it long before embarking on an affair.

I did counselling with my cheater ex, who got extremely hateful about the therapist because all his suggestions for us began with "end contact with your affair partner." Turns out all my ex wanted was for the therapist to convince me an open marriage was a good idea. When that didn't happen, my ex refused to keep attending.

A counsellor will, at best, try to find problems with the marriage that both of you contribute to, and at worst, side with your wife that your behaviour drove her to fall for another man, and try to get you to change. Those are not the problems in your marriage. Your marriage problems are that your wife has no integrity.

Your wife needs to fix her own integrity problem with individual counselling before you two attempt marriage counselling. Treat this as an opportunity to observe her individual counselling by not saying much, as @Thorburn suggests. I would advise seeking private individual counselling of your own, too, to help you deal with the freight train of shock you are feeling right now. Your previous main support system, your wife, is currently indefinitely unavailable.

Don't forget, people lie to counsellors too, especially when another person is present and especially when the counsellor is closing in on emotional territory the subject doesn't want to examine.

Also remember, counselling aside, your wife doesn't have a choice to make, between you and this other man. She already chose you in 2008. What she's doing now is going back on that choice, which, in my experience, means she's already decided otherwise and just has no idea how to tell you. She's not deciding; she stalling.

One other resource I haven't seen mentioned yet: Chump Lady. Here's a link to a post of hers that helps you evaluate your wife's sincerity. https://www.chumplady.com/2013/07/real-remorse-or-genuine-imitation-naugahyde-remorse/ Don't show it to a cheater though; it just helps them fake sincerity better.


----------



## honcho

ddude23 said:


> I feel like she's going back and forth on what she wants to do. She has not mentioned divorce. She wants to try a counsel session today and see how it goes. I feel like maybe it can't hurt. To get everything out maybe. I'm just not understanding at all. Now I feel stupid for believing her about not being physical. I was looking at our wedding pictures, looking at all texts and notes she's given over the years telling me she loves me. I feel horrible and like my stomach is about to drop.
> 
> My sister is a lawyer, a very good one at that and she's in the same town as us. I'm going to give her a call and ask to meet with her. She has always told me if I ever needed anything then to go to her. I feel like I am just going to vent about everything.


Stop taking trips down memory lane for now, looking at old texts, pictures will just let for emotional heart override your rational brain. 

Quit trying to figure out what's she is thinking, you cant. Worry about yourself and what do you want to do, not what she wants.


----------



## sokillme

moth-into-flame said:


> Some folks here are giving you advice on how to save your marriage. Unfortunately, that ball really is not in your court. The only thing you are in control of is yourself and what you decide to do. She has made it clear that you are not her number one choice anymore - that at best you're second fiddle. Does it not make you extremely angry that your wife is saying "well, I think I love someone else, and I need time to decide whether I'm going to dump you and go with this guy that I have serious feelings for - or maybe, just maybe, I'll change my mind and pick you". Do you realize what she thinks of you and your marriage? Not much. She's said, in so many words, you don't mean jack **** to her.


So much this. First of all, to be frank, she may in the end not pick you, which makes the reconciliation advice have no merit at he moment. Most importantly life is hard, probably one of the top 3 things you need in a spouse it loyalty (she has shown you she is not at all). Trust, (strike 2). Finally love, she may still love you but if she does this to you what is her love worth. Love is also probably the easiest of those things to find now a days, and SO not worth the other two. Not having the other two will kill the love anyway. 

Do you really want to go through the war with someone who is so quick to stab you in the back. You are young. It's time to regroup, maybe retreat but ultimately win the battle. Frankly your wife is a cliche, go here or any other relationship board and about ever 5 threads is an example of a woman like this. They are the bottom of the barrel as far as wives go. They are the McDonalds of spouses, and there seems to be a hell of a lot of them out there. They seem to only be able to do the relationship thing until the point that they don't have the butterflies. When the standard less exciting aspects of life show up they bail. Most importantly they are not the type that you or anyone should waste your life on. Everything is instant gratification and feels to them. Now is the time when you are young to learn this and stay as far away from them as possible. I call them emotional vampires. They suck the love out of you until you are emotional dry and dead, then move on to their next victim. 

There was another poster on here who's wife cheated on him with his friend. She was also barren. He now has a new wife an a young child who means the world to him. Hopefully some other poster will I am sure post it for me as I don't remember the title. You should read that one. 

Life is way TOO short my friend.


----------



## sokillme

moth-into-flame said:


> This is how you do it. Take back your power.
> 
> Divorce is painful and awful. Staying with a cheater is worse - *if* she _allows_ that to happen. The marriage is not yours to save. It's yours to end. She mortally wounded it - it's up to you to put it out of its misery. Sad but true.
> 
> I regained my pride and self respect when I ended the false reconciliation with my exww. I still maintain that pride - knowing I had the strength and self respect to say "I am not willing to have someone who would treat me like their worst enemy in my life any longer. Goodbye".


Beautifully said. However there are a lot of people who settle for a plan B life.


----------



## moth-into-flame

Jessica38 said:


> Dr. Harley in Surviving an Affair says we're all hard wired to cheat. The solution is to make sure you're not putting yourself in tempting situations. The OP's wife allowed herself to develop feelings for the OM and take it further by allowing personal, private contact via text, which I agree is poor behavior and boundaries. She put herself in this situation. There is still a possibility that she did not have a PA, and that she can prevent this from happening again by learning how to instill appropriate boundaries in the future. This is only if the OP is willing to reconcile with her- he has every right to decide not to, of course. An EA is still cheating.


I'm sorry, but Dr Hartley is full of ****. I read that book. We are NOT all hardwired to cheat. That is an absolute, 100% lie. I was in tempting situations CONSTANTLY when I was married - a professional gigging musician. My exww accused me of cheating our entire marriage - and treated me as a cheater. I had every opportunity, and what many would consider motive (if you're constantly being accused of cheating and being treated that way, why not cheat and at least enjoy the benefits of it??)...and I NEVER cheated. Never considered it. NEVER. Just because someone writes a book on something doesn't mean they know anything about it.

"The solution is to make sure you're not putting yourself in tempting situations."

A decent, moral, honest person with integrity and values can be in tempting situations all the live long day and never cheat. I'm a case in point. A cheater will cheat whether or not they are in such situations. They may be more likely to cheat when tempted, but it's in their nature, and they will do it regardless. Just like a person who is not a cheater, will _not_ cheat, regardless of the circumstances.


----------



## Jessica38

moth-into-flame said:


> I'm sorry, but Dr Hartley is full of ****. I read that book. We are NOT all hardwired to cheat. That is an absolute, 100% lie. I was in tempting situations CONSTANTLY when I was married - a professional gigging musician. My exww accused me of cheating our entire marriage - and treated me as a cheater. I had every opportunity, and what many would consider motive (if you're constantly being accused of cheating and being treated that way, why not cheat and at least enjoy the benefits of it??)...and I NEVER cheated. Never considered it. NEVER. Just because someone writes a book on something doesn't mean they know anything about it.
> 
> "The solution is to make sure you're not putting yourself in tempting situations."
> 
> A decent, moral, honest person with integrity and values can be in tempting situations and never cheat. I'm a case in point. A cheater will cheat whether or not they are in such situations. They may be more likely to cheat when tempted, but it's in their nature, and they will do it regardless. Just like a person who is not a cheater, will _not_ cheat, regardless of the circumstances.


I do get that some people can be like that- I'm one of them. I just have no desire to get emotionally or physically close to another man, no matter how attractive. But there are MANY instances of spouses who had no intention of looking for an affair and developed feelings for someone they were either working closely with or spending a lot of time with. That's why affairs in the workplace are so common.


----------



## sokillme

moth-into-flame said:


> I'm sorry, but Dr Hartley is full of ****. I read that book. We are NOT all hardwired to cheat. That is an absolute, 100% lie. I was in tempting situations CONSTANTLY when I was married - a professional gigging musician. My exww accused me of cheating our entire marriage - and treated me as a cheater. I had every opportunity, and what many would consider motive (if you're constantly being accused of cheating and being treated that way, why not cheat and at least enjoy the benefits of it??)...and I NEVER cheated. Never considered it. NEVER. Just because someone writes a book on something doesn't mean they know anything about it.
> 
> "The solution is to make sure you're not putting yourself in tempting situations."
> 
> A decent, moral, honest person with integrity and values can be in tempting situations all the live long day and never cheat. I'm a case in point. A cheater will cheat whether or not they are in such situations. They may be more likely to cheat when tempted, but it's in their nature, and they will do it regardless. Just like a person who is not a cheater, will _not_ cheat, regardless of the circumstances.


Ah clarity, it's like bright sunshine. Dude where have you been? I could have used you on some of the treads I have been posting on.


----------



## moth-into-flame

Jessica38 said:


> I do get that some people can be like that- I'm one of them. I just have no desire to get emotionally or physically close to another man, no matter how attractive. But there are MANY instances of spouses who had no intention of looking for an affair and developed feelings for someone they were either working closely with or spending a lot of time with. That's why affairs in the workplace are so common.


Good on you for being one of the good ones.

I'm the same as you - emotionally closed off and not willing to risk myself again. FWB is as deep as I go. 

I agree there are many who didn't intend to have affairs and did - but again, that's not the circumstances or some blinding love that forced their hand. The people who cheat, regardless of the circumstances, are of a certain character (or lacking thereof). In my day job, while I was married, I was surrounded by beautiful, smart, cool women. Many of whom I could have cheated with. Hell, I was accused of sleeping with my coworkers by my ex constantly. But because of who I am, what my values are, and most importantly, the vows I took, I never, ever let it even get close to that point. I had a wall up. _Boundaries_. Boundaries that were built on the sanctity of marriage, my values, integrity - and the fact that I was simply unwilling to do something so cruel and heinous to the woman I promised my heart to. 

To cheat is a choice. To not cheat is a choice as well - there is no difference. Free will dictates what one decides to do. It really is that simple.


----------



## sokillme

moth-into-flame said:


> Good on you for being one of the good ones.
> 
> I'm the same as you - emotionally closed off and not willing to risk myself again. FWB is as deep as I go.
> 
> I agree there are many who didn't intend to have affairs and did - but again, that's not the circumstances or some blinding love that forced their hand. The people who cheat, regardless of the circumstances, are of a certain character (or lacking thereof). In my day job, while I was married, I was surrounded by beautiful, smart, cool women. Many of whom I could have cheated with. Hell, I was accused of sleeping with my coworkers by my ex constantly. But because of who I am, what my values are, and most importantly, the vows I took, I never, ever let it even get close to that point. I had a wall up. _Boundaries_. Boundaries that were built on the sanctity of marriage, my values, integrity - and the fact that I was simply unwilling to do something so cruel and heinous to the woman I promised my heart to.
> 
> To cheat is a choice. To not cheat is a choice as well - there is no difference. Free will dictates what one decides to do. It really is that simple.


You have to care about your honor more then your pleasure. It's really that simple.


----------



## farsidejunky

sokillme said:


> So much this. First of all, to be frank, she may in the end not pick you, which makes the reconciliation advice have no merit at he moment. Most importantly life is hard, probably one of the top 3 things you need in a spouse it loyalty (she has shown you she is not at all). Trust, (strike 2). Finally love, she may still love you but if she does this to you what is her love worth. Love is also probably the easiest of those things to find now a days, and SO not worth the other two. Not having the other two will kill the love anyway.
> 
> Do you really want to go through the war with someone who is so quick to stab you in the back. You are young. It's time to regroup, maybe retreat but ultimately win the battle. Frankly your wife is a cliche, go here or any other relationship board and about ever 5 threads is an example of a woman like this. They are the bottom of the barrel as far as wives go. They are the McDonalds of spouses, and there seems to be a hell of a lot of them out there. They seem to only be able to do the relationship thing until the point that they don't have the butterflies. When the standard less exciting aspects of life show up they bail. Most importantly they are not the type that you or anyone should waste your life on. Everything is instant gratification and feels to them. Now is the time when you are young to learn this and stay as far away from them as possible. I call them emotional vampires. They suck the love out of you until you are emotional dry and dead, then move on to their next victim.
> 
> There was another poster on here who's wife cheated on him with his friend. She was also barren. He now has a new wife an a young child who means the world to him. Hopefully some other poster will I am sure post it for me as I don't remember the title. You should read that one.
> 
> Life is way TOO short my friend.


Here you go, Ddude. Read and learn.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/51949-wife-best-friend-having-least-ea.html


----------



## Jessica38

moth-into-flame said:


> Good on you for being one of the good ones.
> 
> I'm the same as you - emotionally closed off and not willing to risk myself again. FWB is as deep as I go.
> 
> I agree there are many who didn't intend to have affairs and did - but again, that's not the circumstances or some blinding love that forced their hand. The people who cheat, regardless of the circumstances, are of a certain character (or lacking thereof). In my day job, while I was married, I was surrounded by beautiful, smart, cool women. Many of whom I could have cheated with. Hell, I was accused of sleeping with my coworkers by my ex constantly. But because of who I am, what my values are, and most importantly, the vows I took, I never, ever let it even get close to that point. I had a wall up. _Boundaries_. Boundaries that were built on the sanctity of marriage, my values, integrity - and the fact that I was simply unwilling to do something so cruel and heinous to the woman I promised my heart to.
> 
> To cheat is a choice. To not cheat is a choice as well - there is no difference. Free will dictates what one decides to do. It really is that simple.


Do you think this goes for emotional affairs too? I do think part of upholding boundaries is making sure you're not putting yourself in tempting situations or disrespectful situations. If a husband claims he has strong values and morals and would never physically cheat, does that mean his wife should be ok with her husband texting privately and/or spending time with other women without her around? Or that a wife should be trusted to hang out with other men without her husband around? After all, the OP's wife says it never got physical. She just developed feelings for the OM, and the OP is devastated. I would be too, even if my husband upheld his strong boundaries and never touched the OW.


----------



## farsidejunky

moth-into-flame said:


> I'm sorry, but Dr Hartley is full of ****. I read that book. We are NOT all hardwired to cheat. That is an absolute, 100% lie. I was in tempting situations CONSTANTLY when I was married - a professional gigging musician. My exww accused me of cheating our entire marriage - and treated me as a cheater. I had every opportunity, and what many would consider motive (if you're constantly being accused of cheating and being treated that way, why not cheat and at least enjoy the benefits of it??)...and I NEVER cheated. Never considered it. NEVER. Just because someone writes a book on something doesn't mean they know anything about it.
> 
> "The solution is to make sure you're not putting yourself in tempting situations."
> 
> A decent, moral, honest person with integrity and values can be in tempting situations all the live long day and never cheat. I'm a case in point. A cheater will cheat whether or not they are in such situations. They may be more likely to cheat when tempted, but it's in their nature, and they will do it regardless. Just like a person who is not a cheater, will _not_ cheat, regardless of the circumstances.


Speaking as a Moderator:

If you want to discuss the merits of Dr. Harley's approach, start your own thread for discussion. Don't do it on a thread where the OP clearly needs help.

Any further infractions of invalidating someone's opinion or debating various methods will earn a 48 hour-1 week timeout.


----------



## jb02157

Sorry to hear this. It doesn't seem that she's giving you many options. It will make counseling or any kind of reconciliation nearly impossible if she's not willing to give the OM up. Since she's not giving you many options just give her one: no more contact with OM or leave, expect divorce papers and all her friends, family and OM's wife will be told what you have done. Crying at home and drinking is not going to solve this for you. A strong, no bones about it response from you may.


----------



## moth-into-flame

sokillme said:


> Ah clarity, it's like bright sunshine. Dude where have you been? I could have used you on some of the treads I have been posting on.


Haha, thanks! I was probably returning video tapes.


----------



## moth-into-flame

farsidejunky said:


> Speaking as a Moderator:
> 
> If you want to discuss the merits of Dr. Harley's approach, start your own thread for discussion. Don't do it on a thread where the OP clearly needs help.
> 
> Any further infractions of invalidating someone's opinion or debating various methods will earn a 48 hour-1 week timeout.


Let me get this straight - I dispel an assertion Harley made in his book with proof of my own, and you threaten to ban me? I was responding to a post that directly referenced something Harley laid out as fact in his book - so totally on topic - proved with my own experience it's categorically untrue, and you threaten me?


----------



## moth-into-flame

Jessica38 said:


> Do you think this goes for emotional affairs too? I do think part of upholding boundaries is making sure you're not putting yourself in tempting situations or disrespectful situations. If a husband claims he has strong values and morals and would never physically cheat, does that mean his wife should be ok with her husband texting privately and/or spending time with other women without her around? Or that a wife should be trusted to hang out with other men without her husband around? After all, the OP's wife says it never got physical. She just developed feelings for the OM, and the OP is devastated. I would be too, even if my husband upheld his strong boundaries and never touched the OW.


I think if you're hanging around someone of the opposite sex, and texting privately etc, then you've already crossed boundaries. It's simple - ask yourself "would my spouse be totally 100% OK with what I'm doing?". If the answer is anything but an unequivocal "yes", you shouldn't be doing it, your boundaries are weak and you're betraying your spouse. 

To answer the first question - emotional affairs are affairs.


----------



## farsidejunky

moth-into-flame said:


> Let me get this straight - I dispel an assertion Harley made in his book with proof of my own, and you threaten to ban me? I was responding to a post that directly referenced something Harley laid out as fact in his book - so totally on topic - proved with my own experience it's categorically untrue, and you threaten me?


Speaking as a Moderator:

Please let this serve as an example of what not to do when a moderator is polite enough to warn you for a clear violation of the rules.

Stay on subject, folks. Save the debate for its own thread.

Now back to Ddude.


----------



## browser

Don't ever be someone else's second choice.

You don't even have kids. 

You only have one question for her. Does she want the divorce to be mediated, fast, amicable, and inexpensive, or does she want to make a fight out of it.

Dr. Harley would say.. 

>




>




(just kidding!)


----------



## TDSC60

The minute she refused to give up contact with her boyfriend was the minute she chose him over you and your marriage. Your focus now, however painful, is to get yourself out of infidelity. Get yourself out of this marriage that now involves three people courtesy of your wife.

MC while the affair is still active is a waste of time and money. 

She is asking you to sit like a trained dog while SHE decides what your future will be. Don't do that. Take charge of your future. Tell her she is free to follow her feelings, but you will not wait on her to decide. You should talk to your sister about divorce. That may shock your wife out of this or it may not. But at least you will have your answer.

The best advice I have ever heard is to let the wayward spouse go. Don't argue, don't beg, don't let them see you sad, just let them go. Focus on your life without them in it.


----------



## straightshooter

TDSC60 said:


> The minute she refused to give up contact with her boyfriend was the minute she chose him over you and your marriage. Your focus now, however painful, is to get yourself out of infidelity. Get yourself out of this marriage that now involves three people courtesy of your wife.
> 
> MC while the affair is still active is a waste of time and money.
> 
> She is asking you to sit like a trained dog while SHE decides what your future will be. Don't do that. Take charge of your future. Tell her she is free to follow her feelings, but you will not wait on her to decide. You should talk to your sister about divorce. That may shock your wife out of this or it may not. But at least you will have your answer.
> 
> The best advice I have ever heard is to let the wayward spouse go. Don't argue, don't beg, don't let them see you sad, just let them go. Focus on your life without them in it.


Dude,

I am going to tell you again. Read the above. Not one word to you that mentions anything about giving up her new boyfriend. Stop trying to guess what she is thinking. 

It's not complicated. DO YOU WANT TO BE MARRIED TO A WIFE WITH A BOYFRIEND????? If the answer to that is NO, THEN SHE EITHER ACCEPTS THAT AND ENDS THIS AFFAIR NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF AFFAIR IT IS, OR YOU DIVORCE OR YOU ALLOW AN OPEN MARRIAGE.

Figuring out your marriage comes AFTER you gat out of infidelity, not while she continues to cheat. Now by now they have their plan figured out on how she is going to try to keep you in limbo. You need to destroy that plan


----------



## browser

straightshooter said:


> You need to destroy that plan


Not if he's going to hand her divorce papers and move on with his life and find a woman who is worthy of his trust, love and affection. 

She sure isn't.

What kind of a woman says to her husband "I can't decide between you or him, give me time to decide".

If nothing else, she's rather selfish.


----------



## Hope1964

farsidejunky said:


> If you do walk out of the counseling session due to blame shifting, make sure you are not angry or emotional when you do so.
> 
> Look at the counselor and say:
> 
> "It is unfortunate that my wife has called me in here to justify why it was okay for her to open herself emotionally and sexually with another man. I will not live in infidelity. She either immediately breaks contact 100%, permanently, forever, with the other man, and takes steps to show she can be a trustworthy partner again, or the marriage ends. This is not a negotiation. Every day that passes in which she continues in her affair reduces the likelihood of my forgiveness."
> 
> *Draw your line in the sand. Hold that line; no wiggling, no excuses, no gaslighting, no blameshifting. If she will not agree to that, you consult an attorney, file for divorce, and have her served at her place of employment as that is where the affair occurred*.


If I could love a post, I would LOVE this one.


----------



## Affaircare

moth-into-flame said:


> I don't get this mentality - forcing an affair to stop doesn't solve the problem. Forcing someone's hand to stop their horrible behavior doesn't make the behavior go away, or make them somehow come around, or stop being a cheater. If you want to burn down an affair for the sake of burning it down - to prevent them from enjoying their devious, cruel, disgusting behavior, by all means. But shutting it down will not solve the problem - which is that your spouse doesn't love you anymore, that they are by nature a liar, cruel, narcissistic, devious, deceitful and willing to do anything to anyone to get what they want, when they want it. Shutting down an affair _may_ kill the affair (probably not), but it will *not* change the nature of the cheater.


 @moth-into-flame, 

I'd realize it's several pages later, and I'm answering your question because I suspect the OP may also be asking himself this--in other words "How in the world could exposing possibly be helpful? Tha'ts crazy!" 

So first, let's just be clear that if you want to divorce, and infidelity is a deal-breaker period...the marriage was killed by the disloyal spouse and it is DEAD...then that is a choice that has both a benefit and a cost, just like every other choice. In that instance, exposure does not possible good, other than to inform some people so that the loyal spouse has some support. Thus, if it's DONE and that's that...the loyal might tell his/her own family or their mentor/pastor or best friend so they have someone who can give them wise counsel and emotional reinforcement. 

But if the loyal spouse WANTS A CHANCE AT reconciliation, that literally can never, EVER happen while the affair is active. Thus, ending the affair becomes focus #1. End the affair at all costs. Again, this is a choice that has both a benefit and a cost, just like every other choice. It is like a last ditch attempt to save the marriage. There is maybe a 5-10% chance it may work, because affairs thrive in secrecy and very often die in the light of day. So the idea-hope-concept is to expose it as ADULTERY to his family, her family, his siblings, her siblings, pastor/minister/priest (spiritual guide), marriage-friendly friends--and risk the "anger" of the disloyal in order to essentially smack them upside the head and bring them to their senses. A marriage can survive anger--it can not survive ongoing adultery. So that is part 1--end the adultery. Part 2 would have to be that disloyal does come to their senses AND CHANGES OF THEIR OWN ACCORD.

See, very often people forget about that second part. Sure, it's possible to end the affair by embarrassing the **** out of the AP and disloyal, but that doesn't automatically mean that the disloyal all-of-a-sudden is going to "stop being unfaithful" and "start being faithful." To rebuild the marriage you can't just stop the poor behavior! You have to also/simultaneously start HEALTHY behavior. And that means that the disloyal has to want it and has to be the one to pursue changing who they are from the inside. At the same time, the loyal has to be willing to put up with all that! And that is a HUGE gift! If someone can do that, they are quite literally a hero!

So the answer is this: this is a last-ditch attempt. If the affair continues, the marriage has 0% chance to survive. If the affair at least ends, without the influence of the AP, there is maybe a 5% possibility the disloyal MIGHT come to their senses. If they can come to their senses, it is at least within the realm of possibility that they may be willing to identify their own weaknesses and face their demons and change. If they do not come to their senses, they'll likely still defend their choices out of pride--being unable to admit they were wrong. I'd say about 95% are too proud to change even when they come to their senses, and that number is conservative.


----------



## squid1035

Ugh. So many triggers. Sorry you're here.

At this point, you're future together depends on what you will and will not tolerate. A 3rd entity in a marriage is a deal breaker. But further, you're wife needs to take a deep look inside to see why she has acted so selfishly.

I'm almost 30 days from my d-day and my wife still is minimizing her sh*t. 

I'm praying for you, bro. Buckle up. It's a nasty ride.


----------



## Adelais

Calmly tell your wife today, "Wife, that's great that you're going to see a counselor to help you decide if you want your boyfriend, or if you want your husband. While you do that, I'm going to my lawyer to have divorce papers drawn up, because I don't want a wife who broke her vows to her husband and who has a boyfriend."


----------



## eric1

ddude23 said:


> I feel like she's going back and forth on what she wants to do. She has not mentioned divorce. She wants to try a counsel session today and see how it goes. I feel like maybe it can't hurt. To get everything out maybe. I'm just not understanding at all. Now I feel stupid for believing her about not being physical. I was looking at our wedding pictures, looking at all texts and notes she's given over the years telling me she loves me. I feel horrible and like my stomach is about to drop.
> 
> My sister is a lawyer, a very good one at that and she's in the same town as us. I'm going to give her a call and ask to meet with her. She has always told me if I ever needed anything then to go to her. I feel like I am just going to vent about everything.




With all due respect it's not her decision to divorce. It's yours at this point.

You will get lots of advice in many different forms. The first thing that you must do is tell her "I am being abused. I will not be in infidelity for one second longer. You go unconditionally no contact and drop that class or you will be served divorce papers on Tuesday"

- if she agrees then she must have over all passwords to all electronic devices and accounts. Snapchat must be deleted.
- You will get his name and contact information. Atleast 50% of "divorced" boyfriends are actually married. 
- DO NOT GIVE HER HER PHONE BACK YET. Run Dr Fone on it to recover deleted texts. 
- DO NOT GIVE HER HER PHONE BACK YET. Determine if her boyfriend is married and then expose it to his wife BEFORE HE HAS HAD A CHANCE TO MAKE UP A COVER STORY.


Listen, if you actually want to start feeling good you need to take ACTION. One foot in front of the other. Go read Sharpshooter's message. For every small foot you put in front of the other you are EMPOWERING YOURSELF. Right now you are feeling like crap because the punches keep coming and you have no way of getting out of the way. Do _exactly_ what I describe above _tonight_ tonight TONIGHT and you will feel better. If you do not then I will donate $1000 to the charity of your choice. 

Please please please, we don't want to see you flail around. We are here to help. That is why we are here.


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## bbad

I just want to add a note. You have seen and you will see more comments telling you to file for divorce, but it's not like divorce is the only option people recommend. Instead, it's the best way to help yourself be strong and hold the upper hand. You can always drop the divorce paper on the way. Don't quickly go to reconciliation and counselling when all conditions haven't been met. That's the biggest mistake in your situation. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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## Chaparral

My advice is to pack
A ton of her clothes in a garbage bag and take them to the dance studio and tell her lover you need to put them in his car publicly. Then I would ask her for the keys to your house. (Everyone here knows you can't force her out of the house but you can make one helluva point)


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## *Deidre*

DO NOT confront the OM....omg, this isn't a high school prom. lol 

I'd not continue counseling if she is still seeing this guy, and if she is still seeing this guy and still ''confused''...then, I'd end the marriage, or at least separate so you can get some space and think clearly. Counseling won't help your wife's character flaws, and she will blame you for not being as good as the OM (not wording it like that of course), I'm guessing? I don't think it's worth it, honestly.

I'm against reconciliation with cheaters, personally, because you don't need to settle. No one ever needs to settle for a cheater in their relationship, that is how I see it. That the BS is settling for someone who thinks nothing of lying and humiliating them.  

Best of luck to you with this, but please...stand up for yourself, and don't let her hurt you anymore. You can't control her, but you can control to the level that you let her continue hurting you.

I have some respect in that she confessed this to you...she could have kept you in the dark forever, and you could have found out on your own. Not that it makes it better, but it shows she has been feeling guilty.


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## Archangel2

ddude23 said:


> ...
> 
> My sister is a lawyer, a very good one at that and she's in the same town as us. I'm going to give her a call and ask to meet with her. She has always told me if I ever needed anything then to go to her. I feel like I am just going to vent about everything.


 @ddude23 - Take advantage of having your sister available for emotional and legal advice (and I hope you disclose *everything* that's going on). Unless your relationship is strained, you can't beat having a sister. She'll have your back!


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## curious234

I think your state of mind at the moment requires conferring with someone who really cares about you (OK you are talking to your sis). Is your wife feeding information to you regarding her feelings and which way they are floating?Why are you treating like your WW is not doing anything bad? Check out the other guy, I am sure he is well to do and your wife is a gold digger while pretending be very hurt regarding her feelings which she pretend like she does not know how they came about. Hope you have no kids with this lose cannon of morals. A another possibility is she want to be the mom to the kid. What ever happen do not leave ask her to get out. From your post below it seems she is against you and do not care about your welfare. Please get some medicine as a short term measure. Be angry (not violent) about the situation which you have done absolutely nothing to bring about. It will help you. Ddude, feeling helpless,sad is self defeating in front of this narcissist. Your so called W call you names - good thing about this is today is your worst day. From now own you feel better and better. Think this is a blessing in disguise. You love your own kids do not you. As many times mentioned else where one should never attach to anything / anyone so strong that they cannot leave


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## ddude23

It's only gotten worse. I met with my sister and told her why I needed to talk with her. I just cried and vented the whole time. She's very angry with my wife. It was nice to get all of that stuff out. 

So onto the bad news. Well I asked to see her phone and all of the messages were deleted. They have a snapchat streak lasting over 100 days. She told me they really only communicate through snapchat. 

Did not believe her but acted like I did. She went to shower, locked myself in a room and got the texts recovered. I couldn't even describe the feeling/how I'm feeling now. I did not find any evidence of it actually being physical. 

But I miss you and I loves you scattered throughout their messages. There wasn't that many, so I guess they do mostly communicate through snapchat. She did contact him today, telling him she just wants to be in his arms. 

So I can only assume the worst. The worst part about this is her reaction to all this. Blaming me and calling me a ****. No sorry, no anything. Told me she has not loved me for years. I think that's a lie and she is just trying to regulate what she's doing. 

Won't admit to it being physical and has said she's so confused. Doesn't even care about how I feel. My head is so ****ed. 

The woman who I have loved and cherished all these years doesn't care about me it seems like. I can't explain it but I feel actual physical pain. I'm aching as I type this.


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## GusPolinski

She's still lying.

Doesn't matter, though... just let her go.

Sorry man.


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## Affaircare

@ddude23, 

I'm glad you're still here and still reading and still updating us. I'm so glad you have your sister. Even if she gets REALLY mad at your wife and reacts from her anger, at least you have someone "on your side" to support you, and that's super helpful. 

I am sure this feels SO overwhelming and everything that everyone has written seems so impossible to do, but I want you to remember something. You don't have to do it this minute today. You can take some time and just breathe. 

But I would encourage you strongly to look at all the advice posters have given you, and pick ONE. Pick one that YOU want to do, that feels right to you, and even if you can't complete it, break it into steps and do at least one step. You'll find that it helps to feel like you're doing something. 

And don't forget to eat, and get lotion kleenex! If you want to talk more, we are here.


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## Archangel2

ddude23 said:


> ...So I can only assume the worst. The worst part about this is her reaction to all this. Blaming me and calling me a ****. No sorry, no anything. Told me she has not loved me for years. I think that's a lie and she is just trying to regulate what she's doing.
> 
> Won't admit to it being physical and has said she's so confused. Doesn't even care about how I feel. My head is so ****ed.
> 
> The woman who I have loved and cherished all these years doesn't care about me it seems like. I can't explain it but I feel actual physical pain. I'm aching as I type this.


So this is the thanks you get for being willing to stand by your wife when she found out she could not conceive. Please, please, please follow the advice you've been given here. You need to get yourself out of infidelity.


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## GusPolinski

@ddude23, "I miss you" means they've been spending time together, and that means...

Well, you know _exactly_ what that means.

She's not mentioned divorce because she knows there's no coming back from that. That or she doesn't want you to get the jump on her and file first, because that would interfere w/ her plans for a clean exit.

Either way, what she wants is for you to be cool w/ allowing her to have the time and space that she wants to _openly_ test drive this guy.

What she _needs_ is to know that you're aware of PRECISELY what this means:

If she feels like she has to or deserves to or wants to (or whatever) make a choice between the two of you, she's already made the choice, and it ain't you.

I know you're spinning right now.

I know you're hurting right now.

But your one and only shot at getting out of this w/ your marriage, sanity, and dignity intact is to take yourself out of the running.

Make her understand that, if she feels like she has to choose, she's already chosen, and that you're no longer a choice for her.

And hey, if the worst that comes of this approach is that you "lose" someone that didn't love or value you enough to remain faithful, at least your sanity and dignity will remain intact.

@FeministInPink, another poster here, has (or at least once had) a signature that I'll _attempt_ to paraphrase here...

"I don't play games. Either you're in or you're out. You're either '**** YES' or '**** NO'."

Not sure that it's worth mentioning to her that she's likely as "in love" with the idea of being an "instant mom" / stepmom as she is w/ OM.


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## Mizzbak

ddude, I am so sorry you are here. I'm afraid that your road ahead is very bumpy. But you will get through it. We're all here for you. We all have our personal perspectives, but I hope that you've seen the common threads running through all of this - 
1. This is not your fault. The shame and humiliation of being betrayed belongs to the betrayer. The breaker of promises. 
2. Your wife's expectation that you should stand peacefully by, whilst she "decides" who gets to have her heart? That is a load of crap. 
3. Your expectation that your wife would be bound by her promises of fidelity and commitment to you? Treat you with honesty and respect? All completely reasonable.

Your wife is like a toddler having a tantrum because you're threatening to take away the toy that she was playing with. "I hate you, I hate you. It's all your fault and I've never loved you!" You'll hear screams like this every Saturday morning in department stores all over the world. This is not the response of rational, responsible and mature adult after being confronted with what she has done. You cannot treat her as the adult you knew her to be. She is currently not worthy of you, or your commitment to her. She believes that you are her "bird in the hand" and she is standing, swaying from side to side, considering whether she'd like to exchange you because she's bored. (Later, she's going to realise that it wasn't you she was bored with, and that it isn't you she was unhappy with ... but she is a long way from that.) 

There do need to be consequences for your wife's choices and behaviour. The consequences that you can control are all about taking back your power - find your life without her (the 180), moving her out of the house (or at least your bedroom), cutting yourself off from her. I'm going to say again that you cannot currently treat her like the adult you knew her to be. I do think, in your situation, filing for divorce has significant value as a "shock and awe" tactic, and if YOU want to pursue reconciliation further down the line if YOU feel that she is remorseful and deserving of a second chance? Those are all YOUR decisions later. 

I'd also expose her behaviour to her parents/family/friends in an objective and calm fashion. It isn't about trying to take revenge, but simply about ensuring that if she asks any of them for support, or values their opinions, then they know the full story. 

For the record, I think a work-based confrontation is a bad idea. You want everyone to know that you are the sane, adult one. Behaving in a logical, calm fashion. If you start behaving in a threatening fashion, then you run the risk of being accused of harassment or, worse still, the possibility of a restraining order. The OM is an ass. Leave him alone to be an ass. (Look, I'm not a man, so maybe I don't get the whole piss-on-the-tree thing. But, as a outsider, if I saw a man trying to physically or verbally intimidate others - to me that isn't strength. That's bad judgement .. or just sad.) 

Be strong, ddude. The road is long, but there is an end.


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## Affaircare

@ddude23,

Here is what my husband did that woke me up. I'm not saying this will always work, but it did work ON ME. 

I believe he found out a couple days before he talked to me, so for a couple days I believe he stayed quiet and gathered irrefutable evidence. 

He got the OM's email address. 

He wrote to the OM and copied me, and essentially said: "If you think I'm going to let you walk away with my wife without a fight, you're crazy. I intend to fight for my family, and make no mistake, my wife is part of MY family, not yours." 

He came to talk to me and he was crying. Not that "I'm weak and you've destroyed me" crying but the "I am sorrowing for the horrible things you are doing" crying. He said to me, "I know you are having an affair and I've written to your OM. I will not just hand you over. You're my wife and my family, and I've made commitments to you. But we will not be a family if there is an affair. You are free to go if that's what you have to do, but if you go, you won't be coming back and I won't be hiding your affair from those who ask. Please think carefully. You can still fix this--it's not too late. But to fix it you have to stop. You have to stop the affair and never, ever see him or anyone associated with the affair again. What do you choose?" 

Now, I personally think the reason this worked on me was because in my heart of hearts I was already ready to admit I was wrong and I wanted to stop. In a way I felt like maybe it was already too late and he'd never even consider me anymore, be from what he said I knew that wasn't true. And I know my Dear Hubby well enough to know that he's the kind of guy, when he closes a door, that sucker is locked, bolted, and chained shut! THERE IS NO COMING BACK! That's the way he is (not to say he doesn't offer second chances--obviously I'm still here--but he offers the second chance one time and then he is DONE)! 

So I was messed up. I felt "jumbled" inside. But I knew he meant it and I also knew if I chose to stay, I could count on him to work together with me--that is to say, I had to work on me, but he would work too to rebuild a new marriage. You know? Like I wasn't "alone" even though I was the one who had to do the serious work. 

@ddude23, I'm hoping this encourages you to gather your courage and follow through on whatever you CHOOSE to do.


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## honcho

ddude23 said:


> It's only gotten worse. I met with my sister and told her why I needed to talk with her. I just cried and vented the whole time. She's very angry with my wife. It was nice to get all of that stuff out.
> 
> So onto the bad news. Well I asked to see her phone and all of the messages were deleted. They have a snapchat streak lasting over 100 days. She told me they really only communicate through snapchat.
> 
> Did not believe her but acted like I did. She went to shower, locked myself in a room and got the texts recovered. I couldn't even describe the feeling/how I'm feeling now. I did not find any evidence of it actually being physical.
> 
> But I miss you and I loves you scattered throughout their messages. There wasn't that many, so I guess they do mostly communicate through snapchat. She did contact him today, telling him she just wants to be in his arms.
> 
> So I can only assume the worst. The worst part about this is her reaction to all this. Blaming me and calling me a ****. No sorry, no anything. Told me she has not loved me for years. I think that's a lie and she is just trying to regulate what she's doing.
> 
> Won't admit to it being physical and has said she's so confused. Doesn't even care about how I feel. My head is so ****ed.
> 
> The woman who I have loved and cherished all these years doesn't care about me it seems like. I can't explain it but I feel actual physical pain. I'm aching as I type this.


Confused means she just wants you to play along and not make things difficult for her, a typical ws wants to have the spouse and ap fawning over them as the attention from both feeds the rush and euphoria affair land can bring. Her blame game will escalate quickly now, minor disagreements that you had long ago will suddenly become huge issues, good times will suddenly be remembered as bad by her. It's all part of the self justification to convince themselves they are entitled to "be happy". 

Yes this hurts, it'll be one of the more painful things you endure in your life but you will heal and you will prosper in your life. It natural to but don't obsess about the how's and why's of what she is doing, you'll never figure it out. Her text today alone should tell you what you need to know. I hope your sister recommended you a divorce lawyer, get a meeting, get on retainer and have her served. 

Your now in the no win game as she's setting the rules, don't play and set your own rules for your life.


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## manwithnoname

@ddude23 

Get the crying out of the way (in private). Summon your strength. If you want to save your marriage, file for divorce and follow the instructions as per several other posts. 

But, she doesn't seem to give a **** about the pain she's putting you through, poor thing is confused. Expects you to wait around while she decides who she wants. **** that.

Find another woman who will be all that you thought this one was. 

You said you would like to have kids. I'll tell you this, the two most amazing days in my life BY A LONG SHOT, were the days I witnessed the birth of my children. 

Most incredible feeling ever. You can live it.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

I am reluctant to say this but I will. Grow a pair. You are letting her run the show. Take control. I know you have it inside of you to step up to the plate. You need to shock the hell out of her. Hell, if it were me I would kick her ass out of the house and tell her to go stay with POSOM.


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## ddude23

My sister does represent divorce cases. She has told me not to leave our home. This is all happening so fast, I'm not sure how to handle it. She is saying nothing happened between them. She's lying to me and doesn't even care about how upset I am, who is this person? My sister has told me if we divorce I will most likely have to pay her spousal support because of the income differences. She wants to represent me and has told me she won't take any money from me but I don't want to burden her so I might not. 

As for my wife, she is not apologizing or anything. Told me she has not loved me in years. She went off to go teach and I threw all her stuff out of our bedroom. I threw all photos of us around the house in a garbage bag. All she said was we'll talk when she gets home. After all we have been through I can't believe she is letting this guy come between us. Before this she was a loving, supportive, loyal wife.


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## GusPolinski

She's not apologizing because she's not sorry.

She's not sorry because she's got exactly what she wants -- TWO suckers in her thrall.

Oh, and she's _still_ lying.

She's already left for the night, so tell her to stay gone.

Pack her things and tell her to stay w/ OM.

Don't be mean... simply tell her that you're giving her exactly what she wants.

File first thing tomorrow morning, and tell your sister to aggressively push for the most favorable terms possible.

Also read up on and implement the 180.


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## Nucking Futs

ddude23 said:


> My sister does represent divorce cases. She has told me not to leave our home. This is all happening so fast, I'm not sure how to handle it. She is saying nothing happened between them. She's lying to me and doesn't even care about how upset I am, who is this person? My sister has told me if we divorce I will most likely have to pay her spousal support because of the income differences. *She wants to represent me and has told me she won't take any money from me but I don't want to burden her so I might not. *
> 
> As for my wife, she is not apologizing or anything. Told me she has not loved me in years. She went off to go teach and I threw all her stuff out of our bedroom. I threw all photos of us around the house in a garbage bag. All she said was we'll talk when she gets home. After all we have been through I can't believe she is letting this guy come between us. Before this she was a loving, supportive, loyal wife.


No one will be more motivated to get you the best deal than your sister. If she wants to do it, let her.


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## Chaparral

Ask her how her dancing business will be affected if all the mothers find out .
Use that as ammo in divorce.

It's important to know how your sex life has changed in the last few years. This is an important indicator of how she feels about you and him.

Calling you names and telling you she hasn't loved you for years is hard. Odd that she hasn't jumped at the chance to tell you she's done.


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## TDSC60

ddude23 said:


> My sister does represent divorce cases. She has told me not to leave our home. This is all happening so fast, I'm not sure how to handle it. She is saying nothing happened between them. She's lying to me and doesn't even care about how upset I am, who is this person? My sister has told me if we divorce I will most likely have to pay her spousal support because of the income differences. She wants to represent me and has told me she won't take any money from me but I don't want to burden her so I might not.
> 
> As for my wife, she is not apologizing or anything. Told me she has not loved me in years. She went off to go teach and I threw all her stuff out of our bedroom. I threw all photos of us around the house in a garbage bag. All she said was we'll talk when she gets home. After all we have been through I can't believe she is letting this guy come between us. Before this she was a loving, supportive, loyal wife.


Your wife is now a cheater in love with another man. SHE IS NO LONGER THE SWEET WIFE YOU HAD BEFORE THE AFFAIR. Stop thinking of her as that woman. That woman is dead and gone. Destroyed by the person who is now your wife.

Let your sister handle the divorce. She will be on your side.

Stop trying to figure out how and why this happened. You will never arrive at a logical reason. The simple fact is that your wife is now a self-centered, selfish, immoral, woman who cares nothing about you. Accept it and move on.


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## farsidejunky

When she gets home, tell her there is nothing to talk about, that her actions are clearly indicating her choice.

You see, she NEEDS to blame this on you. Then in her head, she can justify her affair. Don't even give her the satisfaction.

Hold your hand up and say:

"Conversation about our relationship is for when you are committed to us. Your actions tell me that is not the case."

Then walk away.

If she says she hasn't loved you for years, shrug your shoulders and say:

"I'm sorry you feel that way."

She wants to engage you. She needs to. She has to shift the blame and get a rise out of you because then she was right about you all along, and it will further cement the affair in her head.

When she says it was not physical, or any other statement you know to be false:

"I'm not okay with lying."

No conversation should last longer than two minutes.

Ddude, it is time to grab your sack. This will require strength you do not feel you have, but it is there. It has just been hidden behind being a husband first and then a man, rather than vice versa.

Take control of your life, brother. Start tonight.


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## Chaparral

Btw, have your sister run a full background check on the Posom? If it's been going on this long I can't believe he hasn't talked her out of the marriage already.......unless he is doing what men usually are doing in this situation, playing her.
No matter his marital status find his wife/ex wife and talk to her.


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## honcho

ddude23 said:


> My sister does represent divorce cases. She has told me not to leave our home. This is all happening so fast, I'm not sure how to handle it. She is saying nothing happened between them. She's lying to me and doesn't even care about how upset I am, who is this person? My sister has told me if we divorce I will most likely have to pay her spousal support because of the income differences. She wants to represent me and has told me she won't take any money from me but I don't want to burden her so I might not.
> 
> As for my wife, she is not apologizing or anything. Told me she has not loved me in years. She went off to go teach and I threw all her stuff out of our bedroom. I threw all photos of us around the house in a garbage bag. All she said was we'll talk when she gets home. After all we have been through I can't believe she is letting this guy come between us. Before this she was a loving, supportive, loyal wife.


It feels like it's happening fast but it's not, she's got a 4 month head start on you. Time is not your ally no matter how fast it feels right now. The longer it goes on the more entrenched she will get in her wonderland and the longer your hurt and pain will continue. Whether it ever went physical (it did) or not is almost meaningless at this point now. She has proclaimed she hasn't loved you in years, she texted some clown today that she wishes she was with him. Your not the stand by guy or safety net for her. You wouldn't tolerate this type of behavior from anyone let alone a spouse. 

Start doing the 180, your not going to get anywhere talking to her and it's probably more detrimental to keep engaging her. Have your sister draw up papers and hand them to your wife. She has no interest in trying to save this marriage or help heal you. Start healing yourself. None of this is fun, and nobody wants to be in your position and too many of us have.


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## straightshooter

ddude23 said:


> My sister does represent divorce cases. She has told me not to leave our home. This is all happening so fast, I'm not sure how to handle it. She is saying nothing happened between them. She's lying to me and doesn't even care about how upset I am, who is this person? My sister has told me if we divorce I will most likely have to pay her spousal support because of the income differences. She wants to represent me and has told me she won't take any money from me but I don't want to burden her so I might not.
> 
> As for my wife, she is not apologizing or anything. Told me she has not loved me in years. She went off to go teach and I threw all her stuff out of our bedroom. I threw all photos of us around the house in a garbage bag. All she said was we'll talk when she gets home. After all we have been through I can't believe she is letting this guy come between us. Before this she was a loving, supportive, loyal wife.


Dude
The fact that you are throwing her out of the bedroom is actually a positive sign for you. Not that she gives a **** but because you are inching your way out of denial and into anger mode. 
There is an old saying , which is " believe what they say". Read that again and stop trying to think for her and put your spin on what she is saying.
She just walked out of your house unapologetically and went to see her boyfriend. Do you really think she would after four months of this be telling him she wants to be in his arms if she was not banging him regularly? If this was a long distance affair maybe. So stop trying to guess if they're having sex. That ship has sailed .
It's also time to stop worrying about spousal suppoort or anything else unless you want to sit there and watch her date
Her boyfriend while you sit home and eat your guts out.
Get to an****ing attorney, your sister or anyone you want but get divorce papers in her hand.
Right now she has you staggered and it's not going to change by hoping.

This is a ****ty deal but in a way I know you can't understand now she is making this easy for you. She isn't even trying to hide what she is doing . No more detective work necessary.
Many betrayed husbands spend months trying to find out the truth . You know it.

Now for heavens sake get to an attorney tomorrow and get to a bank and withdraw half the funds and open an account in your own name.

And stop engaging her about MC. She is only stalling for time to figure out with OM how to continue to string you along


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

ddude23 said:


> My sister does represent divorce cases. She has told me not to leave our home. This is all happening so fast, I'm not sure how to handle it. She is saying nothing happened between them. She's lying to me and doesn't even care about how upset I am, who is this person? My sister has told me if we divorce I will most likely have to pay her spousal support because of the income differences. She wants to represent me and has told me she won't take any money from me but I don't want to burden her so I might not.
> 
> As for my wife, she is not apologizing or anything. Told me she has not loved me in years. She went off to go teach and I threw all her stuff out of our bedroom. I threw all photos of us around the house in a garbage bag. All she said was we'll talk when she gets home. After all we have been through I can't believe she is letting this guy come between us. Before this she was a loving, supportive, loyal wife.


If I may make a suggestions,it is not wise to have your sister represent you in a divorce. You need someone that has no emotional connection to you or STBXW. You need to find the most obnoxious aggressive scorched earth type of attorney you can. 

FANTASTIC getting her **** and photos out of the way! You are getting it now. I would toss it all On your front lawn, and make Damn sure she cannot get in The house. Even better, make it look as if you are going to burn it, but don't. 

You need to tell he she is full of **** and rationalizing her actions and please leave and you will have her served shortly and she can do as she pleases.

Also, let her know you will talk WHEN YOU ARE DAMN GOOD and ready. Do it on your schedule, not hers.

Tell her you are getting ready to make her feel like she is drinking out of a fire hose. 

Expose on social media, to family, to friends, and let off some steam. You will feel so much better when you take charge. It is an effervescent feeling when you do so. Take it from one who has been there and done that.

I am proud of you for manning up. I knew you could do it. You get it now.>

PS: scorched earth no prisoners.


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## sokillme

It's over man. Cut your losses, which are not much. Move on with your dignity intact, why fight for someone who regards you so little. Who treats you so poorly. Sorry to say this but your wife is garbage. She is just a bad person. Only a very low person would treat someone who has love and cared for them this way. Even if you win her back what do you really get, no one of any value. 

Again she is a cliche, there seems to be a lot of cheating wives like this on these boards. You need to accept the fact and move on with your life. The good thing is you are young and you can move on and have a better life and maybe even kids. 

I'm sorry but some people are just not good at being human beings. Seems you found someone like that. You bought a lemon. Cut your losses.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

If you want to be cruel and crass and cut her to the bone "well, I will find a better woman who will love and respect me, and best of all, we will have children." Hit her where it hurts. I am pissed for you.


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## ConanHub

Inform her school that she is using their company to facilitate an affair with one of their customers.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

ConanHub said:


> Inform her school that she is using their company to facilitate an affair with one of their customers.


ConanHub, you are a bad man like me.:wink2:


----------



## Cynthia

ddude23 said:


> My sister does represent divorce cases. She has told me not to leave our home. This is all happening so fast, I'm not sure how to handle it. She is saying nothing happened between them. She's lying to me and doesn't even care about how upset I am, who is this person? My sister has told me if we divorce I will most likely have to pay her spousal support because of the income differences. She wants to represent me and has told me she won't take any money from me but I don't want to burden her so I might not.
> 
> As for my wife, she is not apologizing or anything. Told me she has not loved me in years. She went off to go teach and I threw all her stuff out of our bedroom. I threw all photos of us around the house in a garbage bag. All she said was we'll talk when she gets home. After all we have been through I can't believe she is letting this guy come between us. Before this she was a loving, supportive, loyal wife.


If you divorce, use your sister. Keep it in the family. She will take good care of you and do what makes the most sense. Don't go with anyone else. You can count on your sister to represent you in your true best interests. 

I am glad that you threw her things out of the bedroom. She's probably going to get angry with you over it, so be prepared to freeze her out. Change your mindset to building a wall to keep her out. Do not listen to any of her blame shifting and trying to hurt your feelings by saying she hasn't loved you. Either she is lying to say she hasn't loved you or she was lying when she was telling you she loved you. Either way she's a liar.

Here are some lines that @farsidejunky recommends:
"I'm sorry you feel that way". 

"I see things differently".

"I'm not okay with lying."

"I'm not okay with x".


ConanHub said:


> Inform her school that she is using their company to facilitate an affair with one of their customers.


I agree. It doesn't matter if she loses her job. You're going to have to pay her alimony anyway and she will be required by the court to work.


----------



## *Deidre*

ConanHub said:


> Inform her school that she is using their company to facilitate an affair with one of their customers.


As much as I dislike exposure, this is a sensible suggestion, but do it anonymously, so it doesn't come back on you. She shouldn't be having affairs with clients. Well, she shouldn't be having an affair, but you know what I mean. lol

((hugs)) I'm sorry this is going on right now for you. :frown2:


----------



## ddude23

She is out with him at the moment. I've set the alarm and she doesn't have a key. Told me she's running late but then admitted she's with him. I am going to file tommorrow. Not like she cares. 

My birthday is in a week. Early present I guess. Atleast she won't have the satisfaction of seeing me cry tonight.


----------



## 3putt

*Deidre* said:


> As much as I dislike exposure, this is a sensible suggestion, but do it anonymously, so it doesn't come back on you. She shouldn't be having affairs with clients. Well, she shouldn't be having an affair, but you know what I mean. lol
> 
> ((hugs)) I'm sorry this is going on right now for you. :frown2:


Disagree completely. Expose like a man or woman of character and you'll never have to hang your head in shame because you were too much of a coward to sign your name to your actions.

Can't believe some of the gutless crap I've read around here these days. Damned disgusting.


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## sokillme

You will survive this man. It hurts but in the end you are better off. People like your wife are no prize even if you win her back what to you really get? If I told you you bought a stock that was a junk bond you wouldn't hold on to it and expect it to become a-rated. You fortunately found this out while you were young. Who knows maybe part of this is the little girl. Now that she can't have a kid she found a guy with one. She is just bad, and will have a hard life. Unstable is no way to go through life. 

For you though you are young and will move on. You have proved you can do it. You just need to find someone better. 

Hang in there, hit the gym hang out with friends, immerse yourself in hobbies.


----------



## TX-SC

Just remember that your marriage and the woman you married no longer exist. Go hire the toughest lawyer you can find and get the D rolling as soon as possible. Take off your ring and get rid of all pictures. If you need to, burn them. 

There is no turning back now. You will be strong, you will be assertive, and you will NOT tolerate this behavior. Tell her she needs to start looking for a place to stay as soon as possible. 

If you want to be mean, do as LH recommended and tell her you can't wait to find a woman and one day have children together. Tell her you are now officially separated and on the way to divorce. Then, if the mood hits you, get on CL or some dating sites and start looking for some FWB or ONS action. 

Regardless, do NOT consider chasing her. Go ahead and call your marriage over. Just get that D started ASAP! 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

ddude23 said:


> She is out with him at the moment. I've set the alarm and she doesn't have a key. Told me she's running late but then admitted she's with him. I am going to file tommorrow. Not like she cares.
> 
> My birthday is in a week. Early present I guess. Atleast she won't have the satisfaction of seeing me cry tonight.


Do not let her in no matter what. Time for a reality check for her. I will give you the advice my BIL gave my nephew whose wife betrayed him" f her and feed her fish heads". >


----------



## Cynthia

ddude23 said:


> She is out with him at the moment. I've set the alarm and she doesn't have a key. Told me she's running late but then admitted she's with him. I am going to file tommorrow. Not like she cares.
> 
> My birthday is in a week. Early present I guess. At least she won't have the satisfaction of seeing me cry tonight.


I'm sorry that your heart is breaking. It is horrible to be cheated on. You don't deserve any of this.

You are smart to file immediately. If it doesn't shock her into reality at least you won't be wasting time, but will be moving forward.

Turn you phone off. She's going to be frantic when she realizes she can't get into the house.


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## commonsenseisn't

ddude23 said:


> She is out with him at the moment.... Told me she's running late but then admitted she's with him.


This shows how brazen she is in her infatuation with the other guy. It's time for you to go nuclear, and I don't mean to imply this means for you to engage her. It's time to shut up and let your actions do your talking and a divorce summons is needed asap. 

And for heavens sake, stop letting her dictate the dialog. End the dialog, this will reduce her leverage over you. I would simply tell her that she is repulsive to you and the only thing you have to tell her is because she is cheating you will divorce her and it's non negotiable. End it there, walk away, do the 180, and tell her to communicate with you only through your lawyer. 

Don't be baited into engaging with the other guy. If anything, tell him thanks for taking a disloyal wife off your hands. Think about it, this guy may have actually done you a favor in the long run. I hasten to add that he is not justified, but in the long run you will be better off without a wife with this kind of a moral deficit. 

Cutting her off might snap her out of the fog, but that is not why I recommend it. I advise you to do it because it will help you to heal faster afterwards because you will be able to respect yourself for not groveling to get back a defiled wife. Now man up and force yourself to view her in the light of truth as the enemy of your soul. The wife you knew and loved does not exist any more.


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## ddude23

I already know I'm going to be ****ed up for months over this. I've already been thinking about quitting my job because I feel like I'm going to mess up. This hasn't even hit me yet. I feel like I'm going do something stupid and end up making the situation worse. Here I am, sitting and crying in our home with our dog here. Talking to helpful internet strangers while my wife is out with another man. Am I really that disposable?


----------



## 225985

ddude23 said:


> I already know I'm going to be ****ed up for months over this. I've already been thinking about quitting my job because I feel like I'm going to mess up. This hasn't even hit me yet. I feel like I'm going do something stupid and end up making the situation worse. Here I am, sitting and crying in our home with our dog here. Talking to helpful internet strangers while my wife is out with another man. Am I really that disposable?




What kind of dog do you have? You keep the dog!


----------



## commonsenseisn't

ddude23 said:


> Am I really that disposable?


I was. We all are.

The trick is to not allow ourselves to derive our value by fallible, morally bankrupt cheaters.


----------



## GusPolinski

Lesson learned --

We're _all_ disposable, but only to those that don't value us, and are therefore worth neither grief nor consideration.


----------



## mickybill

ddude23 said:


> I already know I'm going to be ****ed up for months over this. I've already been thinking about quitting my job because I feel like I'm going to mess up. This hasn't even hit me yet. I feel like I'm going do something stupid and end up making the situation worse. Here I am, sitting and crying in our home with our dog here. Talking to helpful internet strangers while my wife is out with another man. Am I really that disposable?


Dude, one of the first things out of my mouth when my xWW said the "I love you but blah, blah blah" was no matter what happens I will be keeping our dogs. No negotiation. You keep your dog. 

Keep the job, you need to make money and get your thoughts away the situation at hand...it WILL become manageable. 

Who knows what line of bull**** she will come home with, could be she had to see him one last time to say good bye, could be they decided to move in together. She probably will say she's staying with a "a friend" tonight, No matter what she says it is probably a lie. Do not engage with her until you feel you can. Turn off your phone for tonight.

Be strong. Don't fall for her nonsense. She has had months to prepare for this, you have had days. You are in shock.

Have her served at work. That's where the whole thing began, seems logical.:FIREdevil:


----------



## Malaise

Dispose of her.


----------



## stillthinking

It is a **** storm no doubt about it. But try to keep this in mind....right now she thinks she is winning, she thinks she is calling the shots. And she is. But it does not have to stay that way.

If you quit your job, or do anything stupid....she wins. She wins by continuing to inflict pain on you. The only way you are going to start feeling better is to take action and take control. Cheaters like her lose their minds if they feel they are not in control.

Without telling her anything.......File. Have her served at work. The same day she is served you expose her to your family, her family, and any close friends. Otherwise she will spin the story to make you the bad guy. These actions will put her on her heels. She has checked out of the relationship. Time for you to check out and find someone new. There is a world of women out there that will love and respect you the way you deserve.


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## sokillme

ddude23 said:


> Am I really that disposable?


Never get your value and self worth from others, this is a trap. You need to ask yourself are you disposable to you? Are you going to allow this unloyal skank define your value? How much value does she have. From where I am sitting not much. Your life has meaning even if you are alone. This is one the hardest and probably one of the worst things you will ever go through as a human being. There are probably few things worse. It's emotional boot camp. You just need to survive it right now. But you will and if you do you will understand if you can get through this you can get through anything. 

It is going to change you, but really a lot of the change is for the better. All of us who went through it are like emotional Marines, battle scared but wiser and much stronger. As they say embrace the suck. Rage, cry and then use it to move on and prove her and everyone wrong.

The best advice anyone can give you right now is take your agency back in your life and fight. Fight like your life depended on it, because it does. Turn your anger into hate for a little while and blow up her world. File and tell her family. Then ghost her if not physically emotionally. Kill every ounce of love you once had for her. She is a vampire, treat her as such.


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## Cynthia

ddude23 said:


> I already know I'm going to be ****ed up for months over this. I've already been thinking about quitting my job because I feel like I'm going to mess up. This hasn't even hit me yet. I feel like I'm going do something stupid and end up making the situation worse. Here I am, sitting and crying in our home with our dog here. Talking to helpful internet strangers while my wife is out with another man. Am I really that disposable?


Sitting in your home, crying, and talking to internet strangers is a perfectly acceptable thing to be doing at the moment, but do get some sleep. You need your rest.

Do not quit your job. That would be a huge mistake. Your life is not over, even if your marriage is. Your wife doesn't define you and if she did, then that is a big problem right there.

Look, I've been married for over 30 years. I love my husband, but he does not define me. I am more than whatever value my husband may or may not give me. If he were gone tomorrow, that would not change my value as a person.

Talk to people who love you. Maybe go spend the night at a sibling's house or your parent's or a friend's. Not tonight. You don't want to wake anyone up. But get around some people who love you. Have dinner with them. Maybe they will get you to eat.

When you get to work, focus only on your job. Like you normally do. Compartmentalize this situation and deal with it when you are not at work.

This is a huge bomb in your life, but things will get better. You are going to get angry and that will help you move through the stages of grief and to move forward with your life.


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## eric1

You will be fine. You are still in the shock phase and will begin transitioning to the anger phase. Get a therapist to help navigate these emotional waters.

I hate to sound disrespectful but all you're doing is simply removing a disease. Of course you'd rather be on a beach somewhere but you need to do what you need to do, then you'll be healthy again.

You cannot picture happiness now but just know that you will. The body reacts in a way that is making it physically impossible to right now. LonelyHusband is an ex-marine and it broke him for a few months as well


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## Affaircare

ddude23 said:


> I already know I'm going to be ****ed up for months over this. I've already been thinking about quitting my job because I feel like I'm going to mess up. This hasn't even hit me yet.


 @ddude23 I can promise you that you will never be the same after this, but "never being the same" can be both good and bad. For example, you may not just give away trust so easily anymore--and yet that can be a wise thing actually. You may not ever be as entangled with someone as you were with your wife, and yet being interdependent is healthier than being co-dependent so that's good. I'm not saying this to be a Pollyanna. I'm saying this because it is true--you will never be the same. But not all change is "bad." I want you to have some hope.

Regarding your job, here's my strong suggestion: let your boss know what you're going through, to whatever degree you feel comfortable. Chances are about 50% that your boss has been divorced, and about 100% that they know someone close who went through a divorce. Your boss may suggest taking some time off, but when you do go back to work, if you are distracted or less productive at least they'll know why and understand a little bit. 



> I feel like I'm going do something stupid and end up making the situation worse.


I said it before, right? EVERY choice has a benefit and a cost. Every decision you make will affect the situation and result in some benefit to you and some cost to you. Many people don't want to file because they are afraid...and they make the choice to "hope" and "do nothing." The benefit of "hoping" is that in their head they can be in denial and keep thinking "maybe it will be the way it was." The cost of "hoping" is that they aren't living in or dealing with reality! So I'm already proud of you. At a time when it hurts to even BREATHE you've made a decision for your own dignity and removed her things from the marital bedroom. You stood up for yourself, even if it was small but mighty! You did it! Good job.

From this point you can do it, @ddude23. You can take YOUR time, and decide what YOU want, and allow her access to you when YOU want it...not when she does. YOU choose what boundaries you set and who you allow in to have intimate access to you. Right now, the situation is pretty bad, and even when most men literally crumble, you had the courage to be brave for yourself AND do the most loving thing for your wife that you can do: allow her to experience the consequence of choosing adultery. YOU will not make this situation worse--it is her actions that made this situation a disaster.



> Here I am, sitting and crying in our home with our dog here. Talking to helpful internet strangers while my wife is out with another man. Am I really that disposable?


Did you know that my dog saved my life? I was a gal who always loved bigger dogs, like labs and collies, and my exH went off and spent $800 on a maltese without asking me. Then my exH took off with his Wistress and left me with this dumb lump of hair! But when I came home from work every day, he was at the door JUMPING because he was so happy to see me. He LOVED me. Wherever I went, he went. He was on my lap, in my face, barking and goofing around cheering me up. When I'd cry, he'd put his puppy head under my arm and make me pet him and then he'd lay on my lap and sort of sigh. Silly little guy. The thought of suicide crossed my mind, but I had kids and I had that crazy little dog. 

Dogs can be angels at this time in life. KEEP your dog. 

And bear in my that it is not you that is disposable. What is disposable is her morals and her honor. What is disposable is her reputation. What is disposable is her dignity...her beauty...her peace. All these things are valueless to her, and that is tragic. YOU are who you are, a loving, caring, thoughtful, kind, gentle, good, honorable, moral, dignified, tender-hearted man. In and of itself, those qualities have value. And this day and age, a person (male or female) who has that much character is a PRICELESS TREASURE. 

The fact that she doesn't see it reflects her inability to see, not your worth. She's blind! Okay? Got it?


----------



## ddude23

She came home 30 minutes ago. Banging on the door super loud, had no choice but to let her in if she called the police they would force me to let her in. I don't know why she has to come home. I still care about her. She told me it's physical and she's in love. 

I told her I'm moving on and she needs to find a place to stay. Asked if she would cut contact with him right now so we can rebuild, said she can't do that. Told me she thinks I shouldn't file yet.... maybe we should go to counseling she says. Just to see if there's any chance She also won't leave the house and both of our names are on it. 

So I'm back in our room, she's in another one. Just would of never thought I would be here. She was the light of my life, now it's just darkness.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

I told her I'm moving on and she needs to find a place to stay. Asked if she would cut contact with him right now so we can rebuild, said she can't do that. Told me she thinks I shouldn't file yet.... maybe we should go to counseling she says. Just to see if there's any chance
1. She did not think you would react this way
2. Stalling tactic so she can prepare
IMMEDIATELY DO THIS IN THE MORNING
A. Separate finances immediately
B. Cancel Credit Cards
C. Set up your own Bank Accounts now and put 50% of the joint money into it.


----------



## farsidejunky

Ddude, are you sick and tired of being sick and tired?

You know what you need to do.


----------



## straightshooter

ddude23 said:


> She came home 30 minutes ago. Banging on the door super loud, had no choice but to let her in if she called the police they would force me to let her in. I don't know why she has to come home. I still care about her. She told me it's physical and she's in love.
> 
> I told her I'm moving on and she needs to find a place to stay. Asked if she would cut contact with him right now so we can rebuild, said she can't do that. Told me she thinks I shouldn't file yet.... maybe we should go to counseling she says. Just to see if there's any chance She also won't leave the house and both of our names are on it.
> 
> So I'm back in our room, she's in another one. Just would of never thought I would be here. She was the light of my life, now it's just darkness.


Dude,

Well, I knew she was going to get back in. If her name is on house I was just hoping you did not wind up in jail over her actions.
Every time you post you still care about her, and tell her that, you are digging yourself a bigger hole to climb out of so please STOP IT. We all know how you feel but that is not going to help you.

Now she tells you she thinks you shouldn't file yet. Can you think of any reason that you shouldn't???? She has just told you, what we all knew, that she is and has been having sex with this guy, probably multiple times a week, and that she is now not even going to hide it from you. 
WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU EVEN CONSIDER GOING TO AN MARRIAGE THERAPIST WITH HER.????????

My guess is she initially confessed to you because this OM probably is divorced and she is convinced he will be all hers. Otherwise she would have continued with the denial and deceit. Dude, you must get to an attorney today and get the papers drawn up. Remember, an attorney is there to advise you on legal issues, NOT to play marriage therapist. He or she is not living with a spouse who is cheating.

Your wife is going to make this as painful for you as possible for a couple of reasons.
(1) she obviously has nowhere to go and does not make enough money to get a place of her own
(2) her boyfriend obviously has not offered for her to move in right now

So unfortunately, until you can get this divorce done, which she should want, you are going to be stuck watching her going out and coming home or not coming home and you can't lock her out. That is why you need to get rolling on this divorce.

Dude, please stop discussing or engaging with her about anything. Last nighht she arrived home from banging another man and then tells you that maybe therapy might help,. It is just a stall.

Now cut her funding off and protect yourself financially. Filing will make you in most cases not responsible for any debt she incurs.

Get moving. Time is wasting.


----------



## Satya

You could have waited for her to call the police. It might have created more ruckus than you wanted but you could have entered into statement that she was with her OM, then show the texts to prove it. It would be embarrassing for her and documented.


----------



## eric1

Get to a lawyer, even if it's one who advertises on the side of a bus TODAY. You need to lock her out of the finances.

Her boyfriend is divorced (otherwise she wouldn't be pushing all of her chips in the middle of the table) and he is using his experiences to coach her to delay for a more favorable divorce.

Get angry. When she was banging on the door to get in last night she had just had sex with him. Get angry. Get angry. You need the anger to get your a$$ to the lawyers today.


----------



## TaDor

ddude23 : Actually in many states, you CAN keep her out of the home. The police will not want to deal with it. 

As someone stated, she has a 4month head start. *WE ALL* know what you are going through. I went through this crap a year ago. Nothing much is as painful as having a cheater.

There are Pros and Cons with going with your sister. A burden is a non-issue. She would have your back more so than another lawyer, but she also has an emotional connection to the situation. If she is NOT a family / divorce lawyer - then DO NOT NOT use her. Ask her for references for another lawyer. Lawyers KNOW other lawyers more than anyone else. They know who is good vs bad.

Your wife is dead. Actually, she is a zombie-wife, an alien who has taken over her brain. She *IS* your enemy. She is out on dates getting laid while you torturing you. You tears are meaningless to her. It totally sucks. You are mourning her death and that of your marriage. It's over. *YOU* will hit the angry phase... go to the gym. Think about the other women there who are in shape that you can date when your head is clear. It'll take a few months. And KNOW THIS... you can be a DAD with a future girlfriend or wife. Another thread was the same - childless cheater... he remarried and recently had a baby. His cheating xWW is barely a thought, and she knows that he is a father.

Start 180.
Get IC. And see a doctor for anti-anxiety meds. Gabapentin is a good non-habit pill. I'd avoid xanax like the plague, it will make you FEEL better, but will crash you hard - can get addicted.
There was another med that I used to take in the mornings, I don't remember 100% - non-habit. - But I think it was Lexapro 10/20mg. A doctor will need to monitor your usage - so don't just go out and buy this stuff.

NO DRINKING ALCOHOL! It's a depressant, it will make THINGS worse!

Keep busy. Gym... never too much gym. Go 1-2 hours a day. Gets you out of the house.
File for divorce. There is no IF or WHEN... do it today. Your sister should be able to help you at least file a TRO to keep her out of YOUR HOME.

I remember when my wife said she was going stay for a couple of months before moving out (the OM didn't have his own place) I left that "meeting" with WTF... 5~10 minutes after I saw her, I sent her a text "DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ENTER MY HOME! I WILL CALL THE POLICE!" She only had the clothes on her back for 3 or so days. Your wife can go to her OM. Why should she be anywhere near you.

Getting that TRO is a start. Get legal advice... but plan to put her crap in boxes. Then have moves put her crap in a storage room and send her the key or combination to the padlock. (I'd text the padlock combination). Once all of her crap *IS OUT* of the home, she cannot demand the cops to let her live there.

DO THIS TODAY. Don't give her time to regroup. Empty half your bank account / make new one one - etc, whatever you can to protect your money.

Don't do her any favors. She is your walking dead zombie wife. nothing more.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

ddude23 said:


> Asked if she would cut contact with him right now so we can rebuild,.


Dude, Just. Stop.

What are you doing asking her if she's willing to rebuild? Just minutes ago she was having sex with the guy and you are so desperate and pathetic that you are asking if she will rebuild with you? For God's sake, just stop with the desperation. She can smell it on you a mile away and it stinks, it is wife repellent. Please, find your dignity and stop with the "choose me" dance. If you don't you will loathe yourself later on when this is all over. 

And please don't fall for her "we ought to wait before you file for divorce" plan. That is a ploy to use your pathetic desperation to get leverage over you. Now is the time to charge forward and hard with divorce. Stop hoping for her to snap out of it and reconcile with you. You don't know it yet, but you will not want her back. She is defiled, filthy, loathsome. She is not something you will want back.

Very sorry to be blunt and hard with you, but you've got to see through your agony and recognize reality. Best of luck.


----------



## GusPolinski

ddude23 said:


> She came home 30 minutes ago. Banging on the door super loud, had no choice but to let her in if she called the police they would force me to let her in. I don't know why she has to come home. I still care about her. She told me it's physical and she's in love.
> 
> I told her I'm moving on and she needs to find a place to stay. Asked if she would cut contact with him right now so we can rebuild, said she can't do that. Told me she thinks I shouldn't file yet.... maybe we should go to counseling she says. Just to see if there's any chance She also won't leave the house and both of our names are on it.
> 
> So I'm back in our room, she's in another one. Just would of never thought I would be here. She was the light of my life, now it's just darkness.


No no no no no -- file ASAP.

She wants you to play the "pick me" game and dance around like a puppet while she pulls your strings.

Don't EVER do that.

NOTHING will prove more toxic or eroding to either your sanity or your dignity.

This is nothing more than a play for more time to get as clean an exit (for her) as possible.

NOPE.

"By your own admission, you've not loved me for years. What's the point in counseling? You've made your choice, and it leads to the one path now before us."

If she responds at all, just repeat it back to her.

File ASAP, and start digging to learn all you can about this guy. It's entirely possible that he is indeed married. Think about it... if he were divorced, why wouldn't she have just stayed w/ him? He's either married or separated but still living w/ his wife. Find out for sure.

If, however, he _is_ actually divorced, the only reason she came home was to see you mid-meltdown, and that's just one more reason to be done w/ her.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

ddude23 said:


> She came home 30 minutes ago. Banging on the door super loud, had no choice but to let her in if she called the police they would force me to let her in. I don't know why she has to come home. I still care about her. She told me it's physical and she's in love.
> 
> I told her I'm moving on and she needs to find a place to stay. Asked if she would cut contact with him right now so we can rebuild, said she can't do that. Told me she thinks I shouldn't file yet.... maybe we should go to counseling she says. Just to see if there's any chance She also won't leave the house and both of our names are on it.
> 
> So I'm back in our room, she's in another one. Just would of never thought I would be here. She was the light of my life, now it's just darkness.


When are you going to put your big boy britches on sir? She is running the Dean Smith four corner on you. The stall, The first thing you need to do is see a lawyer and file and learn your rights. Second, secure your money. Thirdly, get her out of the house if possible. 

Did you toss the garbage bags on your lawn? If you are awake and reading this, I would suggest doing so now. 

Tell her she is dead to you. 

Channel your efforts into you. Get yourself into IC. I get from your posts you likely have self esteem issues.

I wish you nothing but the best going forward. Strength sir. You have it. Use it.


----------



## Sparta

OP look buddy that woman that used to be your wife is gone forever. She is now your enemy. She straight up told you that her relationship with OM is physical. She is Fvcking him and that she's in love with him. She fired you.! You have been replaced by her new POSOM. She is carrying his seed inside her right now...:surprise: stand up for yourself.! She needs to face some consequences. Do not engage with her. Detach your self from her. Apply the 180. You seriously need to Come to terms with the fact that your marriage is gone! She is not your wife anymore and please file for Divorce.!!!

The first consequence she needs the face is divorce. By not taking any action you look weak to her and that is so unattractive. Do not do the pick me dance. Do not plead or a beg for her to come back. Separate yourself from this evil woman that does not care about you or show any remorse...


----------



## Grapes

ddude23 said:


> I already know I'm going to be ****ed up for months over this. I've already been thinking about quitting my job because I feel like I'm going to mess up. This hasn't even hit me yet. I feel like I'm going do something stupid and end up making the situation worse. Here I am, sitting and crying in our home with our dog here. Talking to helpful internet strangers while my wife is out with another man. Am I really that disposable?


NO - you are not disposable. Your STBXW is broken, not you!

And the way you feel about work is normal. I know what you mean and felt the same way. I felt like anything i did i would break, anything at work i would mess up and get fired. Understand that its not true. You have to as soon as possible figure out how to separate this from work because you need your job more than ever! dont loose that. Tell you boss whats going on, they will understand and more than likely give a little slack. In time you will be yourself again.


----------



## Malaise

ddude23 said:


> She came home 30 minutes ago. Banging on the door super loud, had no choice but to let her in if she called the police they would force me to let her in. I don't know why she has to come home. I still care about her. She told me it's physical and she's in love.
> 
> I told her I'm moving on and she needs to find a place to stay. Asked if she would cut contact with him right now so we can rebuild,* said she can't do that. Told me she thinks I shouldn't file yet.... maybe we should go to counseling she says. Just to see if there's any chance *She also won't leave the house and both of our names are on it.
> 
> So I'm back in our room, she's in another one. Just would of never thought I would be here. She was the light of my life, now it's just darkness.


She knows there's no chance. None.

She's just toying with you. Accept she's gone and move on.

Don't grovel for her..


----------



## Chaparral

She told you it was physical to hurt you and make you quit holding onto any hope. Most all women assume a man would have nothing to do with a woman that cheated on him and rubbed it in his face.

Get a copy of the MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. You do not understand the real man woman dynamic. Her boyfriend takes what he wants and you are sitting around crying. NEVER let her see you cry again. Say nothing to her . Do not answer her call for any thing. She fired you. Do not answer her texts. File asap.
None of this adds up. She didn't cut you off or change your sex life. He hasn't asked her to move in. She doesn't know it but he just wants her for a fling. The pretty, naive dance teacher. What a pair. How do you know he's really divorced. Give his name to your sister nad have him investigated. He's lying to her and she's lying to you.

I'm guessing you make much more money than her. They both may be playing you. Ask your sister if you can put his name in the divorce filing.


----------



## *Deidre*

3putt said:


> Disagree completely. Expose like a man or woman of character and you'll never have to hang your head in shame because you were too much of a coward to sign your name to your actions.
> 
> Can't believe some of the gutless crap I've read around here these days. Damned disgusting.


Not gutless, but if she loses her business over her husband exposing this, guess who she will sue when she needs money because her business is failing? And she likely would win the case. Don't rule your whole life with your emotions because it just might cost ya.


----------



## *Deidre*

ddude23 said:


> She came home 30 minutes ago. Banging on the door super loud, had no choice but to let her in if she called the police they would force me to let her in. I don't know why she has to come home. I still care about her. She told me it's physical and she's in love.
> 
> I told her I'm moving on and she needs to find a place to stay. Asked if she would cut contact with him right now so we can rebuild, said she can't do that. Told me she thinks I shouldn't file yet.... maybe we should go to counseling she says. Just to see if there's any chance She also won't leave the house and both of our names are on it.
> 
> So I'm back in our room, she's in another one. Just would of never thought I would be here. She was the light of my life, now it's just darkness.


You should seek IC for yourself only, because a counselor needs to get you to start self reflecting as to why you are allowing this woman to walk on you. She is using you, to see if this thing works out and if it doesn't...she'll come back to you. Doesn't that make you feel special? 

I'd also look up personality disorders, because one of the key traits is that they lack empathy for others, and it's all about them. Life is all about them. That seems exactly what your wife is about. Hope you choose you.


----------



## adegirl2016

Do not beg for this woman! As a woman myself, begging doesn't work!

Please file!!!!! You do NOT deserve this and will find a real woman who will not do this to you. 

Do the 180.

Please snap out of this!


----------



## ButtPunch

*Deidre* said:


> And she likely would win the case.


Wishful thinking and not likely. 

Only once have i seen exposure backfire and it was in the UK not here. 
Laws there are different than here in the US.


----------



## Chaparral

Well, the one good thing about doing the "pick me dance" is there will be no chance of reconciliation and you will eventually be free to marry a younger woman and have babies, the greatest thing in the world.


----------



## VladDracul

ddude23 said:


> So I can only assume the worst. The worst part about this is her reaction to all this. Blaming me and calling me a ****. No sorry, no anything. Told me she has not loved me for years. I think that's a lie and she is just trying to regulate what she's doing.


You just don't want to understand "womanese". When she told you she has not loved you for years, she wasn't lying. You just weren't hearing. You can cry all you want, but your history and her interest in you was gone long before the other guy came along. Men seem to have trouble understanding that and think everything was hunky dory before she happened up on some other guy. If a woman has a full tank of gas, they don't stop by every service station that's new and attractive. You can cry about it now, but you lost her many moons ago Dawg. Go find yourself another after taking a personal inventory. Oh and BTW, take it from a legal eagle, you can't kick her out of the house or discard her stuff without a court order. Doesn't matter if you're a owner, renter, whether her name is on the deed, lease or what have you. If you try it, it will be at your own peril. If you have to pay her alimony, think of it a the F-ing you get for the F-ing you got.


----------



## eric1

*Deidre* said:


> Not gutless, but if she loses her business over her husband exposing this, guess who she will sue when she needs money because her business is failing? And she likely would win the case. Don't rule your whole life with your emotions because it just might cost ya.


She would not win that lawsuit. Period.


----------



## ddude23

My sister is going to start drawing up the papers so I can get her served. Yeah I don't know why she came home last night. Stupidly I asked if she slept with OM and she said yes and she loves him she was also drunk, she drove him drunk. One of her friends got killed by a drunk driver, it's something she was always so against. Also was in a tank top and has no shoes on very classy. Today I am separating the finances.

I'm still so upset, but she doesn't care. It hasn't even hit me yet.


----------



## Dr. Stupid

Two paths. 

The false path, the one that leads to disaster and prolonged pain: Indecisive. Praying that it's all a dream. Trying to win someone back who has betrayed you in one of the worst possible ways. Pretending that you want to reconcile with someone who could hurt you so callously and selfishly, as if her actions never occurred to begin with. "Pick me! Pick me!". Allowing yourself to be disrespected and allowing yourself to appear to be a grovelling, begging, pitiful human being, to be scorned by your wife and her lover. Asking "why" when "why" does not matter. "Why" only matters when it can be fixed. This cannot be fixed. "Why", when asked of your betrayer, only allows further opportunities for the betrayer to rationalize her actions at your expense. 

The true path: Being decisive. Realizing that you were scammed. Cloaking your pain with an air of indifference. Accepting that she invited another man into her body and her heart, while parasitically using you. Filing for divorce immediately with no mercy and no remorse, even if you feel both of these things. Speaking not at all, except it be for the purpose of eliminating this evil from your life. Understanding that there is nothing that you can say to evil, that will not be used to evil's advantage. Ignoring conversations and excuses that serve to erode your resolve. Understanding that every tactic possible will be used by the cheater to your disadvantage, and to believe what a cheater says is to harm yourself. 

Be steadfast. Do not stop moving forward with detaching yourself from the cheater. If you don't believe that indecisiveness is harmful to you alone, read the hundreds of threads on this message board, and then ask yourself, "How many of these people had false hopes, and what happened to them?". You'll find the answer. Sometimes it takes guts, but guts is enough. 

You have to understand that this is all about your well-being now. There is nothing that anyone can do to hurt you now, only you can hurt yourself. The damage is done. The betrayal has been revealed. What you're mourning for is a person who is an actress. The person that you love does not exist. You cannot reason with someone who does not exist. 

If you hesitate, which many do, you will only delay the inevitable to your detriment. The the more decisive and steadfast that you are in ridding yourself of your connections to this evil imposter, the sooner you'll realize happiness. You will find someone who truly loves you, meets your needs, and most joyously, can provide you with children. When you're holding your first child in your arms, you will wonder how you ever lived without one. Then, you may look at your betrayer and pity her.

BE DECISIVE! This is one of the hardest battles that you'll ever face. Those who lose the battle are those who fool themselves into thinking that they're still negotiating, meanwhile the enemy is at the gates.


----------



## Yeswecan

ddude23 said:


> I already know I'm going to be ****ed up for months over this. I've already been thinking about quitting my job because I feel like I'm going to mess up. This hasn't even hit me yet. I feel like I'm going do something stupid and end up making the situation worse. Here I am, sitting and crying in our home with our dog here. Talking to helpful internet strangers while my wife is out with another man. Am I really that disposable?


Sorry you are in this situation. No one deserves the **** sandwich. Do not quit your job. It makes little sense. It is hard(I understand) but once you find the correct resolve in your mind does it turn around. 

It will get better. I can assure you. 

File and have W served. Make it very real to your W that you mean business.

Stick to D and move ahead. Be strong. Detach.


----------



## GusPolinski

ddude23 said:


> My sister is going to start drawing up the papers so I can get her served. Yeah I don't know why she came home last night. Stupidly I asked if she slept with OM and she said yes and she loves him she was also drunk, she drove him drunk. One of her friends got killed by a drunk driver, it's something she was always so against. Also was in a tank top and has no shoes on very classy. Today I am separating the finances.
> 
> I'm still so upset, but she doesn't care. It hasn't even hit me yet.


Go to Best Buy today and pick up a VAR (voice-activated recorder). Buy some rechargeable batteries as well.

From here on out, record all of your conversations w/ your STBXW. When she starts talking, pull out the recorder so that she can see it, and start recording. Once the VAR is rolling, simply say, "I'm recording this conversation. Any further discussion from you will be taken as consent to being recorded."

This will help you in two ways:

1) You won't have to listen to nearly half as much of her bull**** from here on out.

2) In those cases where she's drunk enough or stupid enough or whatever enough to keep talking, you'll capture it all.

She's the enemy now, and needs to be treated as such. Be polite, don't raise your voice, and keep your emotions in check... but she's still the enemy.

If you've not done so yet, read up on and implement the 180.


----------



## VladDracul

ddude, don't be stupid enough to sit around monitoring what she's doing, going out, driving drunk, et cetera. You ain't getting anywhere with it my man. You'll end up like a friend of mine son who in now wearing a ankle bracelet while on probation for violating a court order. She's already told you she's in love with and sleeping with the other guy. What more do you need to know? Be a big enough azz and annoying enough to make her want to leave. Tell her if she lives there and until the divorce she's going to have to cut you in on a piece a couple of times a week, and anything else that you know she hates and annoys the crap out of her.


----------



## Dr. Stupid

ddude23 said:


> My sister is going to start drawing up the papers so I can get her served. Yeah I don't know why she came home last night. Stupidly I asked if she slept with OM and she said yes and she loves him she was also drunk, she drove him drunk. One of her friends got killed by a drunk driver, it's something she was always so against. Also was in a tank top and has no shoes on very classy. Today I am separating the finances.
> 
> I'm still so upset, but she doesn't care. It hasn't even hit me yet.


I feel for you, brother. I look forward to the future stories of your happiness and success though. Hold the line.


----------



## TaDor

We are not saying these things to be MEAN to you. We know how this works.

She is gas-lighting you as well - telling you bits of things you want to hear. She is messing with your mind with "lets not file for D yet". Just as you DIDN'T know she was cheating on you - you DON'T know what she is thinking now... you are not in her head.

You are wasting your time - she is a zombie, and she's eating your brain. Don't be zombie food.
She can't be reasoned with. Dump her NOW. Meet a younger, better woman who can actually give you children.

Oh.. and always use a VAR. She may go nuts and accuse you of beating her.


----------



## *Deidre*

eric1 said:


> She would not win that lawsuit. Period.


It doesn't matter, really. The thing is, why is someone interested in ruining her career? Revenge. That's the only reason, and will the BS feel good after he sees the WS penniless, homeless and career-less? Will that be enough ''justice?''

She doesn't want to be married, she's a jerk, and most likely personality disordered. It's not even personal to him, she likely will cheat on the OM someday too if this thing continues on. 

Bending down to her level is not going to lessen the pain of her cheating. If anything, it keeps the BS locked into the drama. I would divorce, and get away from this person as quickly as I could, instead of scheming up ways to ruin the WS life.

The best revenge is living your life well, away from a toxic person and relationship. That's my opinion. I look at people who go through these great lengths to exact revenge on their exes who have betrayed them, as really missing the point completely. Spend the energy on yourself, on healing and living life to the fullest, instead of thinking up ways to ''get back'' at the person who cheated on you. Karma will find them, someday. It always does.


----------



## *Deidre*

eric1 said:


> The reason is simply because she is abusing him right now. Exposure is the quickest way out of infidelity. She has forced her way back into the house and is using all of her resources to remain with her boyfriend. I am suggesting that he didn't ask for a single goddamn second of abuse and it is legally, ethically and practically the thing that he should do. If she wanted out of the marriage then found a dude, she could have. Instead she chose the route that abused someone that she ostensibly loves/loved.
> 
> I find it very unsavory that you are recommending a victim of abuse to "suck it up". You are not a nice person, and I say that as respectfully as possible.


What?? I'm not suggesting he suck it up at all. Not sure how you interpreted that from my posts...wow. 

I'm suggesting to divorce her, and move on with his life. If you think moving on involves scheming and revenge, it's you who isn't nice. I am suggesting he gets himself out of the drama, asap. I've been in two abusive relationships in my life, and my advice is always the same...to get out when you're being abused. Not sure how you completely misread my post and misrepresented my words, but that is what you did. I don't think you need to destroy someone else's life, in order to heal and move on with your own...if that's your advice, we will have to agree to disagree.


----------



## sokillme

ddude23 said:


> My sister is going to start drawing up the papers so I can get her served. Yeah I don't know why she came home last night. Stupidly I asked if she slept with OM and she said yes and she loves him she was also drunk, she drove him drunk. One of her friends got killed by a drunk driver, it's something she was always so against. Also was in a tank top and has no shoes on very classy. Today I am separating the finances.
> 
> I'm still so upset, but she doesn't care. It hasn't even hit me yet.


It hurts but see her for what she is. Adulterers are right below Murders and Rapists as vile people. It's just our crummy society doesn't acknowledge it. Individual people do, especially those of us whose lives have been touched by them. Something is deeply wrong with her that she could have no shame. If you think about it logically (know it's hard to do) who would even want to be friends with this woman let alone be married to her. Only a very treacherous person would treat someone they built a life with in such a disgusting manner. It's a shame our society is so forgiving of them. I am not for stoning, but the letter A seems about right.

I look at people like your wife like this. She is now like the zombies in the walking dead. One they turn they are not coming back, even if you take them back you are still living with a tainted human being. There are some things in this life that you can never undo, just like rape and murder. What your wife has done to you has damaged her soul. If any man were to meet your wife and I told them what she was capable of the wise ones would steer clear. Some may use her for sex. Only the very foolish would want to try to have a long lasting relationship with her. She has damaged herself irreparable. 

Get far away from this monster.

One more thing, though it is not said I think more then half the population thinks like I do, and only the lowest form of human would see how she treated you as anything less then evil. See her for what she is and take out the garbage.


----------



## *Deidre*

sokillme said:


> It hurts but see her for what she is. Adulterers are right below Murders and Rapists as vile people. It's just our crummy society doesn't acknowledge it. Individual people do, especially those of us whose lives have been touched by them. Something is deeply wrong with her that she could have no shame. If you think about it logically (know it's hard to do) who would even want to be friends with this woman let alone be married to her. Only a very treacherous person would treat someone they built a life with in such a disgusting manner. It's a shame our society is so forgiving of them. I am not for stoning, but the letter A seems about right.
> 
> I look at people like your wife like this. She is now like the zombies in the walking dead. One they turn they are not coming back, even if you take them back you are still living with a tainted human being. There are some things in this life that you can never undo, just like rape and murder. What your wife has done to you has damaged her soul. If any man were to meet your wife and I told them what she was capable of the wise ones would steer clear. Some may use her for sex. Only the very foolish would want to try to have a long lasting relationship with her. She has damaged herself irreparable.
> 
> *Get far away from this monster*.


Bolded by me. This, entirely.

If she insists on not wanting you to file, I'd file anyway, and tell her that she needs to find another place to live, or if selling the house makes sense, etc...then do that. You have to of course do what you're comfortable with, because this is all happening so fast before your eyes, OP - but you need to look out for yourself, and end a toxic relationship.


----------



## sokillme

eric1 said:


> I find it very unsavory that you are recommending a victim of abuse to "suck it up". You are not a nice person, and I say that as respectfully as possible.


Funny I find it unsavory that a person can abuse another and then repent a month later and people advise to R because the abuser is now "sorry". I am sure some of our usual white knights would be on here doing just that though even with this situation. I can see it now "she is showing true remorse dude, I have hope for you!", like she is anything other then a monster. I mean to even remain neutral is amazing to me, talk about unsavory, immoral more like it. 

Just saying.


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
There was once a show called The Six Million Dollar Man. You are now the astronaut in that show. You have, through no fault of your own, been involved in a crash that has resulted in the loss of your right arm, both of your legs and one eye and one ear. You are in severe pain physically and emotionally trying to come to grips with how this happened. That pain is normal. What you must do now is to, as quickly as possible, realize that your limbs are gone and that if you are to survive you must be strong, bear the pain and forge ahead.

That is the bad news. Now for the good news. The limbs, eye and ear are not gone forever. There is technology that will allow you to replace your arm with one that is stronger and more dependable than the original. The same is true for the legs, you will stand again and will in fact run, jump and do all of the things you did before but with a greater sense of security because the new legs are more solid and trustworthy than the old. The new eye you will have will allow you to see in a way that you could not before, beyond the superficial. The eye will give you a glimpse into a deeper realm that you could not see before thereby allowing you to be more discerning in your view of life in general and women in particular. Also, the new ear implant will allow you to hear subtleties that were beyond your original scope of audio perception, again giving you the ability to improve your perception of life.

Now in order to have these prosthetics become a part of you there is more pain to endure. There are surgeries needed to remove the remaining remnants of the old so that the new parts can be attached securely. It will be difficult but the man that emerges from the operating room will be better than he was before. This new man will be stronger, wiser and more self assured than he ever was before.

Once the surgery (divorce) is over it will take you time to figure out how to use that new arm and those legs but once you do you will experience a strength that you have never known. Your new eye and ear will help you collect the information you need to find that new woman and when you do you will have support on those new legs that is unwavering and strength in that right arm that you never thought possible. It will support you and assist you throughout the remainder of your life. There is life after this, you just have to get through the painful part. Many of us have been where you are and most of us are still walking the path so know you are not alone. In fact the path you are on is well traveled.

You have been handed this circumstance and it is up to you how you accept it. There will be a period of mourning for your lost limbs but do not allow it to go on too long and overwhelm you before you decide to use the strengths you will acquire to forge ahead to your new life. Imagine what you had with your old arm and legs only better, stronger and more dependable. She is out there. Good fortune to you.


----------



## *Deidre*

It's unsavory to take someone's post, and totally misrepresent it. For anyone to read my above posts as suggesting to a BS to 'suck it up,' doesn't make sense, and that has never been my advice here. My advice is to leave and work on healing and moving on with your own life. I understand it's not easy if kids are involved, etc...but, I just don't believe in staying with a cheater, especially one who isn't repentant whatsoever, like the OP's wife right now. 

I'm not an advocate of exposing, because I just see it as a revengeful tactic. Leaving and going no contact with the WS, is the best way to heal and live a better life, imo.


----------



## 3putt

sokillme said:


> Funny I find it unsavory that a person can abuse another and then repent a month later and people advise to R because the abuser is now "sorry". I am sure some of our usual white knights would be on here doing just that though even with this situation. I can see it now "she is showing true remorse dude, I have hope for you!", like she is anything other then a monster. I mean to even remain neutral is amazing to me, talk about unsavory, immoral more like it.
> 
> Just saying.


Your comprehension skills are eroded beyond belief. I didn't see eric1 mention one thing about any reconciliation.


----------



## TX-SC

You need to go ahead and file. No need to drag this out. The pain will be substantial but it will eventually ease. File ASAP. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


----------



## *Deidre*

3putt said:


> Your comprehension skills are eroded beyond belief. I didn't see eric1 mention one thing about any reconciliation.


And there wasn't one thing in my posts suggesting to the OP to ''suck it up.'' Not even remotely.


----------



## 3putt

*Deidre* said:


> And there wasn't one thing in my posts suggesting to the OP to ''suck it up.'' Not even remotely.


Not exposing and getting the truth out in the face of history rewriting and dragging your name through the mud is sucking it up, pure and simple.


----------



## sokillme

3putt said:


> Your comprehension skills are eroded beyond belief. I didn't see eric1 mention one thing about any reconciliation.


Not in this thread. OP's wife hasn't asked for forgiveness yet. He loves calling out other posters though. Attacking @*Deidre* calling her unsavory is too much for me. She is one of the best posters on her.


----------



## *Deidre*

3putt said:


> Not exposing and getting the truth out in the face of history rewriting and dragging your name through the mud is sucking it up, pure and simple.


So you believe that everyone in a marriage who is cheated on should expose it to everyone in and out of family members? I've never heard of much of this before coming to TAM.


----------



## 3putt

*Deidre* said:


> So you believe that everyone in a marriage who is cheated on should expose it to everyone in and out of family members? I've never heard of much of this before coming to TAM.


Then you haven't done your homework on the topic of infidelity.


----------



## 3putt

sokillme said:


> Not in this thread. OP's wife hasn't asked for forgiveness yet. He loves calling out other posters though.


Yet you're suggesting he just divorce and not do anything to combat her lies and history rewrites. Can't believe any man with a shred of self respect and dignity would allow that to happen. No effing way.


----------



## sokillme

3putt said:


> Not exposing and getting the truth out in the face of history rewriting and dragging your name through the mud is sucking it up, pure and simple.


This woman isn't worth the effort. What is to be gained? What would he be fighting for? Not saying hide it but really the best course of action is to just see her as dead.


----------



## 3putt

sokillme said:


> This woman isn't worth the effort. What is to be gained? What would he be fighting for? Not saying hide it but really the best course of action is to just see her as dead.


We're not talking about whether she is worth it or not, dammit. We're talking about whether his name is worth it or not. Can you seriously not see or comprehend that?!

Just damn!!


----------



## *Deidre*

3putt said:


> Then you haven't done your homework on the topic of infidelity.


How does exposing help the BS? From what I've seen, some of the exposed WS came running back after they were forced to end their affair once everyone found out. Is that really in the best interest of the BS, to have a spouse who really only returns out of shame, and not really sorry for what they did. And now you're like they're consolation prize since they had to end their affair? 

That's what I've seen in some stories on here, to be honest, and it's not hard to figure out that the WS really didn't want to end the affair, but they were exposed and came running back out of fear of losing everything.

And your loved ones and friends who truly know and love you, will stand by you. To expose it to anyone who will listen, shows that the BS' priorities are a little off...he/she should be working on moving on, and not worrying about what others think of why the marriage is over. Just my pov. Everyone handles these things differently, but I've not heard of exposure much until coming here, so it's just a foreign idea to me, honestly.


----------



## ButtPunch

I guess i sit in the middle of all this. When I went thru all this, I didn't do a full on exposure either.

I was pretty much dead set on getting a divorce. I thought the facebook posts, and letters to her employer 

would have been just petty revenge. However, if trying to bust up an affair i do see the merits of exposure.

Exposure works to end affairs. Seen it time and time again.

However, with that being said I didn't hide anything either. If someone asked me why I was divorcing, I would
tell them the truth especially people who i considered friends and family.


----------



## 3putt

*Deidre* said:


> How does exposing help the BS? From what I've seen, some of the exposed WS came running back after they were forced to end their affair once everyone found out. Is that really in the best interest of the BS, to have a spouse who really only returns out of shame, and not really sorry for what they did. And now you're like they're consolation prize since they had to end their affair?
> 
> That's what I've seen in some stories on here, to be honest, and it's not hard to figure out that the WS really didn't want to end the affair, but they were exposed and came running back out of fear of losing everything.


See above.


----------



## *Deidre*

ButtPunch said:


> I guess i sit in the middle of all this. When I went thru all this, I didn't do a full on exposure either.
> 
> I was pretty much dead set on getting a divorce. I thought the facebook posts, and letters to her employer
> 
> would have been just petty revenge. However, if trying to bust up an affair i do see the merits of exposure.
> 
> Exposure works to end affairs. Seen it time and time again.
> 
> However, with that being said I didn't hide anything either. If someone asked me why I was divorcing, I would
> tell them the truth especially people who i considered friends and family.


It ends the affair possibly, but it doesn't end why the person cheated to begin with, and if the person was forced to end it, they may cheat again, because they didn't do it on their own. They did it out of embarrassment of others finding out. Like a kid who cheats on a math test and the teacher calls the parent...the kid might be sorry about being caught, but not sorry for cheating. Cheating is a choice, and it's about the OM or OW, really...the OM or OW could be anybody for the cheater...the cheater is looking for something else to fill a void in his/her life, which is why there are so many serial cheaters in marriages. If ending one affair would end all affairs, I'd say go for exposing, but likely, it won't if the WS has serious character flaws, etc.


----------



## sokillme

3putt said:


> Yet you're suggesting he just divorce and not do anything to combat her lies and history rewrites. Can't believe any man with a shred of self respect and dignity would allow that to happen. No effing way.


I'm saying expending the effort on someone worth so little is really not worth it. If it was me that would be beneath my dignity to even give this woman one more shred of time and effort at this point. She would be dead to me, dead and forgotten (at least by my actions it may take longer emotionally). I have no problem telling her family but I would just tell them why you are getting divorced. Revenge is not indifference. The best punishment for these people is not doing things to hurt them, it's not even acknowledging their existence. That is why Ghosting is so effective. It is the ultimate sign that they have no meaning to you anymore. 

I get your anger but your strategy just shows how much you still need them. It's also pretty easy, everyone wants revenge.


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator Warning*

Please keep it civil, folks.


----------



## 3putt

sokillme said:


> I'm saying expending the effort on someone worth so little is really not worth it. If it was me that would be beneath my dignity to even give this woman one more shred of time and effort at this point. She would be dead to me, dead and forgotten (at least by my actions it may take longer emotionally). I have no problem telling her family but I would just tell them why you are getting divorced. Revenge is not indifference. The best punishment for these people is not doing things to hurt them, it's not even acknowledging their existence. That is why Ghosting is so effective. It is the ultimate sign that they have no meaning to you anymore.
> 
> I get your anger but your strategy just shows how much you still need them. It's also pretty easy, everyone wants revenge.


You're still not getting it, but that's okay I guess. I give up.


----------



## ButtPunch

*Deidre* said:


> It ends the affair possibly, but it doesn't end why the person cheated to begin with, and if the person was forced to end it, they may cheat again, because they didn't do it on their own. They did it out of embarrassment of others finding out. Like a kid who cheats on a math test and the teacher calls the parent...the kid might be sorry about being caught, but not sorry for cheating. Cheating is a choice, and it's about the OM or OW, really...the OM or OW could be anybody for the cheater...the cheater is looking for something else to fill a void in his/her life, which is why there are so many serial cheaters in marriages. If ending one affair would end all affairs, I'd say go for exposing, but likely, it won't if the WS has serious character flaws, etc.


Nothing knocks a person out of the fog quicker than exposure. 

I see your point but not every BS wants a divorce. I wish they did but they don't.

I have seen numerous marriages saved with these methods here on TAM. 

For that matter, I am still married and my wife had a complete turn around.


----------



## *Deidre*

ButtPunch said:


> Nothing knocks a person out of the fog quicker than exposure.
> 
> I see your point but not every BS wants a divorce. I wish they did but they don't.
> 
> I have seen numerous marriages saved with these methods here on TAM.
> 
> For that matter, I am still married and my wife had a complete turn around.


This is interesting. I'm glad things worked out for you both, and if you're both happy then that's all that matters. If you didn't expose, what might have happened, do you think?


----------



## karole

Son, you deserve so much better than her - just hope you can realize that soon! Be thankful you are getting rid of her sorry ass!


----------



## ButtPunch

*Deidre* said:


> This is interesting. I'm glad things worked out for you both, and if you're both happy then that's all that matters. If you didn't expose, what might have happened, do you think?


I didn't expose. I immediately started the divorce process. 

I mean I told my parents and close friends
or anyone who asked but I didn't send out
mass emails or facebook posts and such.


----------



## TX-SC

I would expose to family and friends, but I would wait until the terms of the divorce are worked out. In the meantime, I'd be detaching and thinking of all the fun I will have once she is gone. You might need to sell the house, so start considering what needs to be done. Maybe have a realtor come out and give you some pointers. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


----------



## *Deidre*

ButtPunch said:


> I didn't expose. I immediately started the divorce process.
> 
> I mean I told my parents and close friends
> or anyone who asked but I didn't send out
> mass emails or facebook posts and such.


Oh, okay, I see. This is the approach I personally think makes the most sense. If the WS decides to come back, show remorse, and really work on things, then the couple can go from there if they want to R.


----------



## ddude23

I have thought about exposing. I don't think she realizes the damaged she's done. I'm not standing for this. I am filing today and am currently separating the money from our accounts. I think she'll regret this soon enough but that's not my concern anymore. I still feel awful, but was able to eat something this morning so that's good.


----------



## *Deidre*

ddude23 said:


> I have thought about exposing. I don't think she realizes the damaged she's done. I'm not standing for this. I am filing today and am currently separating the money from our accounts. I think she'll regret this soon enough but that's not my concern anymore. I still feel awful, but was able to eat something this morning so that's good.


I'm sorry you're going through this, but great that you are resolved and moving forward.


----------



## Chaparral

*Deidre* said:


> It's unsavory to take someone's post, and totally misrepresent it. For anyone to read my above posts as suggesting to a BS to 'suck it up,' doesn't make sense, and that has never been my advice here. My advice is to leave and work on healing and moving on with your own life. I understand it's not easy if kids are involved, etc...but, I just don't believe in staying with a cheater, especially one who isn't repentant whatsoever, like the OP's wife right now.
> 
> I'm not an advocate of exposing, because I just see it as a revengeful tactic. Leaving and going no contact with the WS, is the best way to heal and live a better life, imo.


I just want to kindly state that it felt like you were basically advising him to slink away with his tail between his legs. The logic to expose is sound and been the go to advise here for many years. Please go to the marriagebuilders.com site and search for exposure. It explains why even the kids should be made aware of infidelity. Infidelity thrives in darkness and not the only the BS is affected. One of the leading causes of suicide especially among men is adultery. Hoping fate will deal with a cheater is just denying responsibility for oneself. He needs to find out if her Posom is really divorced. He needs to find out what and who he is dealing with. They're teaming up against him and the best defense is a great offense. Let them deal with him while their heads are spooning. I would even let his employer know what he is doing. It might not do any good but that depends on what kind of people he works with.


----------



## GusPolinski

TX-SC said:


> I would expose to family and friends, but I would wait until the terms of the divorce are worked out. In the meantime, I'd be detaching and thinking of all the fun I will have once she is gone. You might need to sell the house, so start considering what needs to be done. Maybe have a realtor come out and give you some pointers.


 @ddude23

I wouldn't wait for divorce to start having fun.

I'm not talking about dating or anything, but I'd immediately begin turning the place into a bachelor pad: I'd rearrange the furniture, invite friends over (and often) for cookouts and/or to watch the playoffs, play movies (and loudly) until about 1 or 2 am, leave clothes and dishes and chicken bones laying around, etc.

I'd probably also put up some pinups. Find a model that looks like whoever you dated just before your wife or someone that your wife just _hates_. Or, if your wife has small breasts and is insecure about it, pick a model w/ large breasts. Whatever motivates her to GTFO.

Basically, I'd do everything that I could to make her feel unwelcome in the space w/o crossing any sort of threshold that could (legally speaking) be considered harassment.

You've already kicked her out of the master bedroom, so that's good. Get all of her stuff out of there, put it in the other room (where she's sleeping), and put a lock on the master bedroom. That's your space now, and she has no business being in there.

Likewise, if she has a key to your vehicle, get it back. That's your space now.

Cook ONLY for yourself.

Wash ONLY your own laundry.

Let everything that you do from this point on send a very clear message:

"I'm done with you."


----------



## straightshooter

ddude23 said:


> I have thought about exposing. I don't think she realizes the damaged she's done.* I'm not standing for this.* I am filing today and am currently separating the money from our accounts. I think she'll regret this soon enough but that's not my concern anymore. I still feel awful, but was able to eat something this morning so that's good.


Dude,

if she has a double digit IQ she knows exactly what she has done. But remember shes had a four month head start on you, she has been having sex with this guy and telling him she loves him all this time. 

The words in bold need to be repeated to yourself hourly. 

You do need to be prepared for something though. Once she realizes you are really really done, and that OM is her only option, one of two things will happen.
(1) they will continue their love affair. But if she is in love with him and has not legal advice telling her to leave and move in with him, either he is not really divorced or he has not offered that up. If she drags out going to him to live, there is a reason.
(2) as happens often she will have a "change of heart" and tell you she will break it off with him and work on your marriage. DO NOT FALL FOR THIS. If he is divorced and has child support, her lifestyle is going to take a hit. it is not the likely outcome here but you need to be pissed off enough to totally reject her.

If you can find out his name, you do need to make an attempt to reach his wife or ex wife. She may be able to use the information against him.

As far as exposure, to who??? her parents are eventually going to side with her regardless of what she did, and your sister knows the truth. If you have mutual friends then maybe if you give a **** about what they think. 

You just need to focus on getting away from her as quickly as possible and not do any more pain shopping.


----------



## Marc878

ddude23 said:


> *I have thought about exposing*. I don't think she realizes the damaged she's done. I'm not standing for this. I am filing today and am currently separating the money from our accounts. I think she'll regret this soon enough but that's not my concern anymore. I still feel awful, but was able to eat something this morning so that's good.


Exposure well planned and executed can get you some closure. Call it revenge or consequences it doesn't matter. If it makes you feel better and gets a load off your chest it's a good thing. 

BOOM!!!!!!


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Gus, what a great idea. A divorce party to celebrate getting rid of a cheating **** wife. We did this a few years ago for a pal of mine and turned it into sort of a guys shower to help him furnish his new house. He really enjoyed us doing that for him. 

Post invitations on Facebook


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## TheTruthHurts

@ddude23 read @Lonely husband 42301's thread if you want an action plan. Seriously.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ddude23

Unfortunately throughout my life I've always dealt with trauma by isolating myself which will probably happen now. It was hard for me to tell my sister this as it is. I don't think parties or anything will help me with this, I'm not even motivated to go out and celebrate this. It's only been a few days and I'm still heavily grieving everything. Our life together, everything. I have to call our travel agent and cancel a vacation I was taking her for mothers day, I would get her things on mothers day even though she could not conceive. I have some friends but I'm not the most popular guy in town. I'm not an extrovert people person like my wife or my sister. I expect nothing but mental agony for the next few months, I will definitely need mental help with a counselor. She doesn't think I'm actually going to file I think. Also someone mentioned not using her because of an emotional attachment and I need someone aggressive. She went to Harvard and is as aggressive as they come. 

I have asked about our dog, which I have bought and he is under my name so I will basically get him which is good news.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Ddude23, you are getting it. You now are showing strength. Read up on 180, and follow it. Do not engage her in any conversation. Silence. It will drive her nuts. Take it from one who knows. 

Expose. Expose. Expose. This is mandatory for you. Seize the narrative before she does. If she is driving drunk, report her when she is out. A DUI would be nice for her. You do not need her hurting some innocent person. Place a GPS on her vehicle and have fun. Let POSOM bail her out


----------



## sokillme

ButtPunch said:


> Nothing knocks a person out of the fog quicker than exposure.
> 
> I see your point but not every BS wants a divorce. I wish they did but they don't.
> 
> I have seen numerous marriages saved with these methods here on TAM.
> 
> For that matter, I am still married and my wife had a complete turn around.


At this point I would strategically use the "fog" to get the best deal. The way this woman has treated him why would it be good for him to want her back. Again what does a person have to do to their psyche to spend the rest of their live with someone who had such a lack of loyalty and honor. Look up sunk cost fallacy. Seriously is there ever a point where you guys don't think the best solution is to to R?


----------



## VladDracul

And Ddude, while youre at the gym getting buff for your new squeezes, you may want to consider using the money you would have spent on her for a little nip and tuck, hair transplants, teeth caps, crowns, whitening, et cetera. Improve yourself and quit worrying and plotting about paying her back. Living well is the best revenge. Sacrificing yourself to get at her is a losers game.


----------



## browser

3putt said:


> Not exposing and getting the truth out in the face of history rewriting and dragging your name through the mud is sucking it up, pure and simple.


No, it isn't. 

Filing for divorce and walking away and not caring what other people think demonstrates confidence, self esteem and maturity. 

Staying with the cheater and begging them to stop is sucking it up.


----------



## *Deidre*

Chaparral said:


> I just want to kindly state that it felt like you were basically advising him to slink away with his tail between his legs. The logic to expose is sound and been the go to advise here for many years. Please go to the marriagebuilders.com site and search for exposure. It explains why even the kids should be made aware of infidelity. Infidelity thrives in darkness and not the only the BS is affected. One of the leading causes of suicide especially among men is adultery. Hoping fate will deal with a cheater is just denying responsibility for oneself. He needs to find out if her Posom is really divorced. He needs to find out what and who he is dealing with. They're teaming up against him and the best defense is a great offense. Let them deal with him while their heads are spooning. I would even let his employer know what he is doing. It might not do any good but that depends on what kind of people he works with.


Okay, I understand better now, but wasn't my intent to suggest for the OP to slink away. Divorcing and moving on with one's life seems to be far from slinking away. I think that people shouldn't take actions just reacting to emotions, though. You might make some really bad judgement calls and think you're doing the right thing, but exposure probably has a price, depending on how far you go with it. I don't think it is vengeful to contact family and friends, but calling the guy's employer? Idk. At one point do you remove yourself from it all, so you can heal and move on?


----------



## EleGirl

ddude23 said:


> Unfortunately throughout my life I've always dealt with trauma by isolating myself which will probably happen now. It was hard for me to tell my sister this as it is. I don't think parties or anything will help me with this, I'm not even motivated to go out and celebrate this. It's only been a few days and I'm still heavily grieving everything. Our life together, everything. I have to call our travel agent and cancel a vacation I was taking her for mothers day, I would get her things on mothers day even though she could not conceive. I have some friends but I'm not the most popular guy in town. I'm not an extrovert people person like my wife or my sister. I expect nothing but mental agony for the next few months, I will definitely need mental help with a counselor. She doesn't think I'm actually going to file I think. Also someone mentioned not using her because of an emotional attachment and I need someone aggressive. She went to Harvard and is as aggressive as they come.
> 
> I have asked about our dog, which I have bought and he is under my name so I will basically get him which is good news.


You might want to also see a doctor about getting on anti-depressants for a while. They will take the edge off the depression so that you can better deal with this. 

I'm sorry for what you are going through. I know it's very hard.


----------



## NoChoice

ddude23 said:


> I have thought about exposing. *I don't think she realizes the damaged she's done.* I'm not standing for this. I am filing today and am currently separating the money from our accounts. I think she'll regret this soon enough but that's not my concern anymore. I still feel awful, but was able to eat something this morning so that's good.


This statement is absolutely true and even more inclusive than you know. She does not realize because she cannot realize. Her thought process is simply not as thorough as yours. She speaks of love but she hasn't a clue what love is and neither does the OM. He is either as mentally challenged as she or he simply wants easy sex or both and with her mentality, easy sex is exactly what she is. She is so limited in her thought process that she does not even see that the OM is of very low character. He is engaging with another man's wife, a woman who swore an oath to honor and cherish and forsake all others.

It has always fascinated me how APs and WSs think or, more accurately, do not think. The person they are engaged with has no honor, is not trustworthy and lacks integrity. What possible positive outcome could there be in two people so devoid of moral conscience uniting? Have they never heard the term "no honor among thieves"? Do they not see that they are each others next victim?

In any event, this is a very new and open wound for you right now. You just lived 4 months in an instant that you did not know could even exist. There will be many thoughts and much confusion as you progress but your current path seems prudent. I am sure that she feels that her and the OM deserve one another as do I, but for totally different reasons. I know it is hard but perhaps Gus has the right idea. Shift your focus away from your pain and loss and on to the new life awaiting you. Then you can find someone who will honor you as much as you honor her.


----------



## GuyInColorado

What state do you live in? If you're around me, I'll meet you at a bar and talk it out for hours. You need a support system, just someone to talk to that's been in your shoes. It really does help.


----------



## MyRevelation

dude,

I know this is a shock to your system, but my friend, you are taking care of business like a MAN, and you have the RESPECT of those of us BH's that have trod this same path before you. Hold your head high while you adjust to your new reality, and as that takes place, my guess is you will soon look forward to your new life and embrace it.

FWIW, when I went through my D many years ago, I did exactly as some here are suggesting. Once the D was final, I threw myself a full blown southern BBQ, with a pig in the ground and a keg on ice, and all my rowdy friends did indeed come over, along with many of their wives, who brought along several of their single friends. It seems that quality guys, with integrity are quite the commodity in the open market.

You are probably too close to discovery to look toward the future, but as you adjust, just remember, the same guys that were right in their advise to you now, also know that the future will be much brighter for you. We've lived it, and it's why we recommend it.


----------



## browser

3putt said:


> Expose like a man or woman of character and you'll never have to hang your head in shame because you were too much of a coward to sign your name to your actions.
> 
> Can't believe some of the gutless crap I've read around here these days. Damned disgusting.


I suggest the Op ignore this advice which is clearly coming from an emotional place and will cause more problems than it will ever solve. 



TaDor said:


> ddude23 : Actually in many states, you CAN keep her out of the home. The police will not want to deal with it.


This is not true. 

There's a lot of reckless advice being thrown out on this thread. I hope the Op thinks twice before following any of it.

What I do suggest you do is simply stop speaking to her. She is nothing more than an "ex business partner" at this point. Treat her as such. No more personal conversations. Take this time to start covering your ASSets, speak to an attorney and get your finances lined up. Separate bank accounts, no joint credit cards, that sort of thing.


----------



## browser

sokillme said:


> everyone wants revenge.


No, not everyone. Only people who have poor impulse control, are immature with anger management issues, who are unable to move on because they're still hung up on whoever it is has them so upset.


----------



## ButtPunch

sokillme said:


> At this point I would strategically use the "fog" to get the best deal. The way this woman has treated him why would it be good for him to want her back. Again what does a person have to do to their psyche to spend the rest of their live with someone who had such a lack of loyalty and honor. Look up sunk cost fallacy. Seriously is there ever a point where you guys don't think the best solution is to to R?


Yes it would and I am not telling him to reconcile.

All i am saying is every BS is different and some aren't strong enough to cut 
the cord so fast.


----------



## Nucking Futs

browser said:


> I suggest the Op ignore this advice which is clearly coming from an emotional place and will cause more problems than it will ever solve.
> 
> 
> 
> *This is not true. *
> 
> There's a lot of reckless advice being thrown out on this thread. I hope the Op thinks twice before following any of it.
> 
> What I do suggest you do is simply stop speaking to her. She is nothing more than an "ex business partner" at this point. Treat her as such. No more personal conversations. Take this time to start covering your ASSets, speak to an attorney and get your finances lined up. Separate bank accounts, no joint credit cards, that sort of thing.


It is true in a lot of jurisdictions. OP, if you're going to disregard anyones advice, disregard the advice of the person who tells you one thing is applicable everywhere.

Where I live if a wife calls the police and tells them her husband locked her out of the house and won't open the door for her they'll tell her it's a civil matter and call a locksmith.


----------



## browser

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> I and many other posters on your thread have been betrayed. Some posters are repentant former waywards, and at least one has been both a BS and a WS. We know exactly how you feel, what you are going through, and are giving heartfelt advice based on experience, not voyeurism.)


This is exactly why such emotional, knee jerk, impulsive responses from "triggered" people who mean well but are reacting based on their own pain and hurt should be taken with a grain of salt.

Consider the source. Taking advice from a betrayed spouse is like taking driving lessons from someone who has gotten into several accidents and is angry at the people who they believe are at fault for their bodily injury and high car insurance premiums. It doesn't make them an expert, if anything it makes them too close to the situation to give good, unbiased, useful advice.

When you hear such conflicting advice, I suggest you step back and think about how it would work for you.

Does running around telling everyone your wife cheated on you sound like it's coming from a mature person with confidence and self esteem, or does it reek of frank desperation? As compared to say, simply retaining an attorney filing for divorce, and leaving her?

The point has been made that if you do decide to go the exposure route and she loses her job, odds are you will be paying support until she is able to get another job, and you can bet her attorney will advise her NOT to get another job until after the divorce, because alimony awards are not typically modified.

One thing's for sure, no matter what you do you need be doing something other than sitting at home and then having those personal discussions about your relationship and her affair partner.


----------



## browser

Nucking Futs said:


> It is true in a lot of jurisdictions. OP, if you're going to disregard anyones advice, disregard the advice of the person who tells you one thing is applicable everywhere.
> 
> Where I live if a wife calls the police and tells them her husband locked her out of the house and won't open the door for her they'll tell her it's a civil matter and call a locksmith.


Here's a source from the respected and legitimate "Expert Law" website that says you're wrong.

If have should happen to have a source that somehow gives merit to your questionable claim that a spouse can legally lock the other one out of the house in "many states" then please provide it. But you won't, because you can't. Because you're giving advice based on what you want to believe, not what the law says you can do.

_"Can You Lock Your Spouse Out of the House? As a general rule, the answer is "no"_

More HERE


----------



## Adelais

Exposure doesn't have to be throw an atom bomb or to act like you are on the Jerry Springer show.

It can mean to tell key people on a need-to-know basis. That means family (yours and hers), friends (yours and hers) and other people who know the two of you. You speak with them personally, not by emails, or FB posts.

Keep it simple when you tell them: "Mrs. ddude has a boyfriend who is the dad of one of her dance students. She won't stop seeing him, so I am getting a divorce."

My heart hurts for you. It would be a lot more complicated had you had children with her. This might sound trite right now, but at least you can make a clean break and not have to see or hear from her again once the D is final.


----------



## browser

Nucking Futs said:


> It is true in a lot of jurisdictions. OP, if you're going to disregard anyones advice, disregard the advice of the person who tells you one thing is applicable everywhere.
> 
> Where I live if a wife calls the police and tells them her husband locked her out of the house and won't open the door for her they'll tell her it's a civil matter and call a locksmith.


The police "might" not arrest the person who locks their spouse out of the home. 

Then when the matter gets to court, and the crying wife tells the judge she was locked out, that's a big strike against the husband who will be viewed negatively in the eyes of the court, for taking matters into their own hands.

You want her out? Petition the court for a restraining order to keep her out. "Vigilante justice" as advised by the irresponsible posters on this thread won't work for you in a divorce case.

Here's another respected website staffed by attorneys who clearly state that taking the matter into your own hands can and will be used against you.

Vivien I. Stark, a Divorce / Separation Lawyer states (along with several other attorneys) _You cannot lock your husband out of the house for having an affair. If you do so, your husband could obtain an order from the court forcing you to change the locks so that he can return to your home. He could even be granted an order of protection against you._

More HERE


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Ddude23,

You are now my recruit. I am your DI. I am going to get you through boot camp for BH. Your orders are as follows:

1) Pick yourself up and dust yourself off. You have taken a hit, but you must and will get up sir and fight for your self esteem.

2) You are stronger than you think you are recruit. You will get through this **** storm. You will say STRENGTH over and over. You are to reply....I HAVE IT Drill Sgt LH.

3) Recruit! Get those Divorce paper signed and in her hand. Let her know she is no longer welcome in the house. Defend your position and that is a direct order.

4) You will get off your ass tonight and go out and celebrate St Paddys day....within reason.

5) PT. You will hit the gym and work out daily from here on out. Recruit! You will become a lean mean dating machine. That is an order!

6) You will go and snag some "clothes that play" as my best friend and fellow marine Taz calls looking sharp.

7) You will cease all communication with your stbxw. Radio silence! Do not give away your position.

8) You will not. I repeat for emphasis. Get down on yourself. That is not allowed in my platoon sir.
You can and will be positive you will get through this situation, a better man, a stronger man, and a determined man. 

9) Surrender is not an option! You will complete the mission to extract yourself from this ****storm raining in on you. She will not dictate the course of action you take.

10) You are a good man. You did nothing wrong. She did. 

Any Questions? Carry on!


----------



## ddude23

I can't kick her out and she will not leave willingly. Her name is on the house also. Her affair partner is divorced I don't know if she is wiling to go live with him. Does not seem like it for whatever reason. We haven't even spoken today and she's been in the shower for over an hour now. I am meeting my sister in two hours.


----------



## browser

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Exposure doesn't have to be throw an atom bomb or to act like you are on the Jerry Springer show.
> 
> It can mean to tell key people on a need-to-know basis. That means family (yours and hers), friends (yours and hers) and other people who know the two of you. You speak with them personally, not by emails, or FB posts.
> 
> Keep it simple when you tell them: "Mrs. ddude has a boyfriend who is the dad of one of her dance students. She won't stop seeing him, so I am getting a divorce."


^ This. Nice to hear a voice of reason among all of the emotional kneejerk responders. 

Although I'd leave out the "She won't stop seeing him" part. That makes it sound (to the people that actually matter in your life) like it's her choice to end the marriage because she chose the other guy over him. "She cheated, so I divorced her". Period.



Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Ddude23,
> 
> You are now my recruit. I am your DI. I am going to get you through boot camp for BH. Your orders are as follows:


^^You can listen to this advice too. Calm, clear, and effective. Not coming from a place of anger and misery. 

There's a big difference from the questionable posts which I hope you can see.


----------



## browser

ddude23 said:


> I can't kick her out and she will not leave willingly. Her name is on the house also. Her affair partner is divorced I don't know if she is wiling to go live with him. Does not seem like it for whatever reason. We haven't even spoken today and she's been in the shower for over an hour now. I am meeting my sister in two hours.


You need to get out more.


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## EleGirl

browser is right, a person cannot lock their spouse out, or kick them out, of the family home.

The home is the legal residence of both spouses. Neither one has the legal right to kick the other out. And taking action to do so can get you in a lot of trouble.


----------



## mickybill

ddude23 said:


> I have asked about our dog, which I have bought and he is under my name so I will basically get him which is good news.


You need to stop "asking". She didn't ask you if she could date a student's dad. She didn't ask you if she could spend the night banging a student's dad. He's your dog.

Talk to your sister and formulate a game plan. Tell her how it is going to be unless she pulls some big effing rabbit out of her hat to change the course to divorce.

And another thing: Exposing is good in my opinion, it's called consequences. IF somehow the dance moms hear that your wife has been banging at least one student's dad, they will talk. It is juicy gossip and will travel fast. If she is a part time teacher then most likely the owner's won;t appreciate "fishing off the company pier" and she may lose some classes. Itf she's the owner she'll have some work to do to lose Dance Teacher **** nickname.
Before people get all "if she loses her job you will pay support", not always. IF she has a track record of employment the court will take that into account and expect her to continue to make her own money.

I have a friend who works in the Dade county courts as some kind of mediator. When people say boo hoo I lost my job she will say "I am sorry that happened but you still need to pay $XX so go out and get a job or two" She and her judges do not look kindly on those who lose a job by their own impropriety and expect to get on the BS payroll.

One more thing- OM may not be all that interested in a full time dance partner, what with the kids,a nd ex wife and blah blah...it just got real for him too.


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## EleGirl

ddude23 said:


> I can't kick her out and she will not leave willingly. Her name is on the house also. Her affair partner is divorced I don't know if she is wiling to go live with him. Does not seem like it for whatever reason. We haven't even spoken today and she's been in the shower for over an hour now. I am meeting my sister in two hours.


You are right, you cannot kick her out. Even if her name was not on the house, it's her legal residence. 

Ask your sister if there is any way to get a judge to order her out. There is a good chance that the only way you can get her to leave is to decide in the divorce which of you is keeping the house. Of course there is also forcing the sale of the house, but I don't know if that is something that you want.

Can you file divorce for fault based on infidelity? Does your state consider infidelity/fault and can it affect the outcome of the divorce?

Right now the two of you are going to have to live as room mates apparently. Take a look at the link to the 180 in my signature block below. That describes how you need to be interacting to her from here on out.


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## Nucking Futs

browser said:


> Here's a source from the respected and legitimate "Expert Law" website that says you're wrong.
> 
> If have should happen to have a source that somehow gives merit to your questionable claim that a spouse can legally lock the other one out of the house in "many states" then please provide it. But you won't, because you can't. Because you're giving advice based on what you want to believe, not what the law says you can do.
> 
> _"Can You Lock Your Spouse Out of the House? As a general rule, the answer is "no"_
> 
> More HERE


Did you even bother to read it before you posted the link? Here, let me help you out with an excerpt:



> As a general rule, the answer is "no": Unless you have a court order excluding your spouse from the home, *although you can change the locks on the marital home, you cannot prevent your ex- from returning to the home, even if that means breaking into the home, or even changing the locks again to lock you out.*


Now are you going to argue that the op changing the locks is illegal but the ws changing the locks to lock him out is not? Or are you going to admit that this is a civil matter and not a crime?

Note that while I said the police in my jurisdiction won't get involved I never said the action couldn't be used to make you look bad in court. 

Now what you disputed was a statement that you can lock your spouse out of the house and the police will not want to get involved. You flatly stated that this is not true. I have personal experience that you are wrong in my jurisdiction. The link you posted to try to back up your point doesn't, it in fact backs up the original assertion.


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## MyRevelation

EleGirl said:


> browser is right, a person cannot lock their spouse out, or kick them out, of the family home.
> 
> The home is the legal residence of both spouses. Neither one has the legal right to kick the other out. And taking action to do so can get you in a lot of trouble.


Maybe, but I'm very confident that I could absolutely legally make her WANT to leave the marital home in just a few days, especially if there are no kids involved. I can be real creative and vindictive ass if properly motivated. I just get so tired of reading advice about what a BH CAN'T do, or to take it slow, or don't do this or that ... BULL****. The BH's that come out of this ****storm mostly intact are the one's who take strong, definitive actions against a WW that already holds an advantage simply by knowing the real truth that the BH is left guessing about in the early stages.


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## EleGirl

It is not ok to call people names, insult them and start posts specifically to tell everyone to ignore someone because you disagree with them. Even saying that you are saying it as respectfully as possible does not work.

If you disagree with someone either state respectfully why you disagree or ignore their post.

Different opinions are allowed on TAM.

Note that this is the second moderator warning on this thread. 

{Speaking as a moderator.}


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## EleGirl

MyRevelation said:


> Maybe, but I'm very confident that I could absolutely legally make her WANT to leave the marital home in just a few days, especially if there are no kids involved. I can be real creative and vindictive ass if properly motivated. I just get so tired of reading advice about what a BH CAN'T do, or to take it slow, or don't do this or that ... BULL****. The BH's that come out of this ****storm mostly intact are the one's who take strong, definitive actions against a WW that already holds an advantage simply by knowing the real truth that the BH is left guessing about in the early stages.


Well why not share what creative things you would do to make her leave.

By the way, I'm a BS who came out of the ****storm without having to do anything that is nasty, vindictive, ugly, etc. And I came out very much intact, actually a better, stronger person. I just might have a clue as to how to do that.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

DDude23, This is DI LH....I can't hear you! 

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? 

Do you want to be on the parade ground in a few weeks getting your stripe from BH boot camp? Get moving. The faster you move, the faster you will heal.

Follow my advice. It works!


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## Cynthia

ddude23 said:


> Unfortunately throughout my life I've always dealt with trauma by isolating myself which will probably happen now. It was hard for me to tell my sister this as it is. I don't think parties or anything will help me with this, I'm not even motivated to go out and celebrate this. It's only been a few days and I'm still heavily grieving everything. Our life together, everything. I have to call our travel agent and cancel a vacation I was taking her for mothers day, I would get her things on mothers day even though she could not conceive. I have some friends but I'm not the most popular guy in town. I'm not an extrovert people person like my wife or my sister. I expect nothing but mental agony for the next few months, I will definitely need mental help with a counselor. She doesn't think I'm actually going to file I think. Also someone mentioned not using her because of an emotional attachment and I need someone aggressive. She went to Harvard and is as aggressive as they come.
> 
> I have asked about our dog, which I have bought and he is under my name so I will basically get him which is good news.


Just because you have always done things a certain way doesn’t mean you have to keep doing it that way. In fact, if you don’t make changes along the way to better accommodate your needs and work through things, you will never grow. Life is about growing and learning. If you don’t want to do that, you’ll end up miserable. I doubt you want to be miserable, but you seem to be making a pretty good plan to get there real quick.

You are planning to suffer. Stop that! Do not plan to be a wreck. Yes, you can expect that you are going to feel trauma, but planning a breakdown is foolishness. Yes, seek counseling. Yes, read some books to help you grow and heal. But do not plan a mental breakdown! Instead make a plan on how to avoid a mental breakdown.

As far as extrovert and introvert, I get that. I do understand wanting to process things by yourself, but if you are sitting around feeling sorry for yourself, that is going to take you into deep depression in a heartbeat.

I’m sorry you are going through this horrible heartbreak. It’s not right. It’s not fair. Your wife has turned on you and I get how devastating that can be, but I also know that there is a lot more to live for than one person, especially when that person turns out to be a stranger who has betrayed you.


EleGirl said:


> browser is right, a person cannot lock their spouse out, or kick them out, of the family home.
> 
> The home is the legal residence of both spouses. Neither one has the legal right to kick the other out. And taking action to do so can get you in a lot of trouble.


You cannot change the locks to lock a person out, but in the case of last night where she didn’t come home and didn’t have a key, that’s her problem. Sure she could call the police, but all he has to say is, “Why didn’t she use her key? I locked the house down because I went to bed.” End of story. Absolutely no further discussion. Just leave it at that.

Throwing her out is a different matter. He can’t do that. He can’t change the locks or try to keep her from her own house. But if she’s dumb enough to go off and have sex with her lover, then expect him to leave the house unlocked while he goes to bed, that’s her problem. She’s an idiot.

What he did last night by locking up and letting her work herself into a tizzy was good. She needs to know that he’s not begging, pleading, or trying to make her happy anymore. She wanted him to hang around waiting for her while she engaged sexually with the other man. Locking her out was a good way to get the point across that he’s not playing along with her wicked game.

@ddude23, please inform your STBXW (soon to be ex wife) that you are not leaving the house unlocked and unprotected while she’s out with OM, so she better learn how to get into the house without you. In fact, she better learn to do everything without you, because you are done with her.


----------



## sokillme

MyRevelation said:


> Maybe, but I'm very confident that I could absolutely legally make her WANT to leave the marital home in just a few days, especially if there are no kids involved. I can be real creative and vindictive ass if properly motivated. I just get so tired of reading advice about what a BH CAN'T do, or to take it slow, or don't do this or that ... BULL****. The BH's that come out of this ****storm mostly intact are the one's who take strong, definitive actions against a WW that already holds an advantage simply by knowing the real truth that the BH is left guessing about in the early stages.


See the way I read it, it's the ones who take the strong assertive actions for THEMSELVES who come out the best. Like my post I linked to earlier in this post, the one that had all the links to the posters who made out the best. Most of them just totally dismissed their exs and just quickly moved on. Spaceghost is the best example, he was immediately done, and it totally crushed his ex, she found out without fidelity she meant absolutely nothing to him. 

The way I see it, when you are dealing with an egotist, which most WS are, trying to sabotage them just builds their ego, in the sense that his wife will be in her glory thinking "I have one man who wants me, and another who is fighting not to let me go." Why give her what she wants in this case. Better to just ghost. Then she will be thinking, "Wow he must not of thought much of me if he can dismiss me so easily. What does it say about me that my husband could so easily give me away." This is human nature 101, this is what will hurt her the most. It plays right into their insecurities and reinforces them. Those are the WS who end up in the worst position. Seriously read the post from the women who got caught. Her husband just dumped her and years later she's still not over it. It totally destroyed her ego. It also has the added bonus of starting your detachment. The ones who go to war with the WS, the WS ends up using the war to feed their ego. Plus many BS just end up delaying their healing and moving on.

I am not saying to hide the facts from the parents and friends and stuff, I am saying don't waste any more time on garbage then you have to.


----------



## browser

Nucking Futs said:


> Note that while I said the police in my jurisdiction won't get involved I never said the action couldn't be used to make you look bad in court.


I know you neglected to mention that the action can be used against him in court, which is why I clarified it. 



Nucking Futs said:


> Now what you disputed was a statement that you can lock your spouse out of the house and the police will not want to get involved. You flatly stated that this is not true. I have personal experience that you are wrong in my jurisdiction. The link you posted to try to back up your point doesn't, it in fact backs up the original assertion.


No, I said that it is not true that in MOST jurisdictions you can legally lock your spouse out of the house, which is what you initially posted.

Now, you are stating YOUR jurisdiction not MOST, which in fact is in agreement with what I said about your earlier post not being true.


----------



## MyRevelation

EleGirl said:


> Well why not share what creative things you would do to make her leave.
> 
> By the way, I'm a BS who came out of the ****storm without having to do anything that is nasty, vindictive, ugly, etc. And I came out very much intact, actually a better, stronger person. I just might have a clue as to how to do that.


First off, you were dealing with a WH ... completely different animal.

... but to answer your question, I think, if need be, I could call up 3-4 of my buddies and have them over for the weekend, and it wouldn't take long for her to be uncomfortable enough to pack her **** and leave on her own accord. This stuff really ins't as difficult as many want to make it out to be. You just need the proper motivation and a backbone.


----------



## browser

mickybill said:


> And another thing: Exposing is good in my opinion, it's called consequences.


It doesn't matter if she faces "consequences". He needs to get to a place - where a lot of posters have failed to get- where he simply doesn't CARE what happens to her.



mickybill said:


> IF somehow the dance moms hear that your wife has been banging at least one student's dad, they will talk. It is juicy gossip and will travel fast. If she is a part time teacher then most likely the owner's won;t appreciate "fishing off the company pier" and she may lose some classes. Itf she's the owner she'll have some work to do to lose Dance Teacher **** nickname.
> Before people get all "if she loses her job you will pay support", not always. IF she has a track record of employment the court will take that into account and expect her to continue to make her own money.


It's quite possible the courts will award her support, or more support than she would have received if she is not working. Like you said, it's hard to say but why risk it for nothing in return other than her "getting consequences" which accomplishes nothing.



mickybill said:


> I have a friend who works in the Dade county courts as some kind of mediator. When people say boo hoo I lost my job she will say "I am sorry that happened but you still need to pay $XX so go out and get a job or two" She and her judges do not look kindly on those who lose a job by their own impropriety and expect to get on the BS payroll.


That's one court, and a few judges, in one area. It's a mistake to assume all judges will rule that way.


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## MyRevelation

sokillme said:


> See the way I read it, it's the ones who take the strong assertive actions for THEMSELVES who come out the best. Like my post I linked to earlier in this post, the one that had all the links to the posters who made out the best. Most of them just totally dismissed their exs and just quickly moved on. Spaceghost is the best example, he was immediately done, and it totally crushed his ex, she found out without fidelity she meant absolutely nothing to him.
> 
> The way I see it, when you are dealing with an egotist, which most WS are, trying to sabotage them just builds their ego, in the sense that his wife will be in her glory thinking "I have one man who wants me, and another who is fighting not to let me go." Why give her what she wants in this case. Better to just ghost. Then she will be thinking, "Wow he must not of thought much of me if he can dismiss me so easily. What does it say about me that my husband could so easily give me away." This is human nature 101, this is what will hurt her the most. It plays right into their insecurities and reinforces them. Those are the WS who end up in the worst position. Seriously read the post from the women who got caught. Her husband just dumped her and years later she's still not over it. It totally destroyed her ego. It also has the added bonus of starting your detachment. The ones who go to war with the WS, the WS ends up using the war to feed their ego. Plus many BS just end up delaying their healing and moving on.
> 
> I am not saying to hide the facts from the parents and friends and stuff, I am saying don't waste any more time on garbage then you have to.


We are not in disagreement at all. I'm simply addressing the claim of not being able to get a spouse out of the house, when you want them to leave ... like in a situation where you are planning on keeping the marital home after D.


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## Dr. Stupid

What has been a quest to provide accurate advice has now become a contest of egos. 

Remember who you're wanting to help, and consider that this back and forth is doing nothing to help him.


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## browser

CynthiaDe said:


> You cannot change the locks to lock a person out, but in the case of last night where she didn’t come home and didn’t have a key, that’s her problem. Sure she could call the police, but all he has to say is, “Why didn’t she use her key? I locked the house down because I went to bed.” End of story. Absolutely no further discussion. Just leave it at that.


I can just imagine him saying that at a hearing. Then she responds "I had my key, I have NEVER lost my keys and didn't lose them that night. My key didn't work. I was banging on the door, calling his phone, he wouldn't let me in after he changed the locks even though he says he didn't!". 

Who do you think the judge will believe? Him who is suddenly deaf and says she suddenly "lost her key" or her, who says he changed the locks and she couldn't get in? If he took your advice he'd lose even more credibility with the courts than he did by changing the locks in the first place.

Please people. Think!


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## EleGirl

MyRevelation said:


> First off, you were dealing with a WH ... completely different animal.
> 
> ... but to answer your question, I think, if need be, I could call up 3-4 of my buddies and have them over for the weekend, and it wouldn't take long for her to be uncomfortable enough to pack her **** and leave on her own accord. This stuff really ins't as difficult as many want to make it out to be. You just need the proper motivation and a backbone.


I'm not sure why you think a WH is all that different than a WW when it goes to ways to deal with a divorce. This idea that men have to somehow act like asshats in this kind of situation is just nonsense. 

I agree that the OP brining a group of buddies over to party hardy might get her to move out. Of course she could retaliate and bring her friends over to party. Or she could bring her boyfriend and all his friends over to party. Two can play these games. 

It's very possible that friends and family would want not nothing to do with this kind of revenge activity. I know a couple right now going through a mess. They have both tried to enlist friends to do stuff like you suggest to each other. Do you know that result is? The friends and family of both of them have pulled away and won't even talk to them right now. They have been told by everyone to stop the nonsense and not try to drag them into their person stupidity.

I can think of all kinds of games to play that would drive a person from their home. But a lot of them would backfire.


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## EleGirl

Ok folks, let's get back on track. We are not into a long argument (thread jack) about whether or not someone can lock their spouse out. And then there is the idea of doing things to drive your spouse out. It's all a thread jack.

The point has been made. Be very careful of taking advice to do things that might not bode well in divorce court. Basically the OP needs to talk to his lawyer before doing anything thing like locking her out, changing lock, having his drunk buddies move in, etc. 

Yes, I know that I'm a guilty party here too.

Let's get back to directly the OP.


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## *Deidre*

Even though I'm engaged to be married/never been married, I've been betrayed in a prior relationship, and the one thing that a court or your stbx can't take away from you, is your dignity. So my advice sometimes comes from that place...of trying to preserve your dignity. It hurts and is humiliating when someone betrays your trust. You feel like an outsider looking in at your own life, it's horrible. I don't know what it's like to be married, but I do know what it's like to be betrayed, and feel that hurt. And it's so easy to get caught up in emotions, and then enlist people to help us get back at the person who hurt us, but it will destroy your own self respect and dignity, if you let it. Take the high road, always...and stay classy. Leave the low class behavior to your WS lol


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## ddude23

She decided to randomly come up to me and said she tried to work on our marriage. Claimed she went to a therapist and the therapist told her to follow her heart. Not even a sorry. Told her I've loved her and cherished her all these years but that woman is dead and gone and I don't want anything to do with this new one. She thinks we can be friends after this. Then went to call the other man and wish him a St Patrick's day and at the end told him not to get too drunk because they're going to have fun tonight. 

She's evil. I am going to tell her family today.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

ddude23 said:


> She decided to randomly come up to me and said she tried to work on our marriage. Claimed she went to a therapist and the therapist told her to follow her heart. Not even a sorry. Told her I've loved her and cherished her all these years but that woman is dead and gone and I don't want anything to do with this new one. She thinks we can be friends after this. Then went to call the other man and wish him a St Patrick's day and at the end told him not to get too drunk because they're going to have fun tonight.
> 
> She's evil. I am going to tell her family today.


Great! Keep it up! You get it! Focus on you!


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## browser

ddude23 said:


> She decided to randomly come up to me and said she tried to work on our marriage. Claimed she went to a therapist and the therapist told her to follow her heart. Not even a sorry. Told her I've loved her and cherished her all these years but that woman is dead and gone and I don't want anything to do with this new one. She thinks we can be friends after this. Then went to call the other man and wish him a St Patrick's day and at the end told him not to get too drunk because they're going to have fun tonight.
> 
> She's evil. I am going to tell her family today.


Again, you need to stop talking to her. Each and every time you engage you are inflicting greater damage on yourself and giving her more power and control.


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## MarriedTex

ddude23 said:


> She decided to randomly come up to me and said she tried to work on our marriage. Claimed she went to a therapist and the therapist told her to follow her heart. Not even a sorry. Told her I've loved her and cherished her all these years but that woman is dead and gone and I don't want anything to do with this new one. She thinks we can be friends after this. Then went to call the other man and wish him a St Patrick's day and at the end told him not to get too drunk because they're going to have fun tonight.
> 
> She's evil. I am going to tell her family today.


She is being unnecessarily cruel. To do this within your earshot is vindictive. While we don't know the full story of your relationship, I can't imagine a scenario where someone would deserve this type of treatment. At the very least, she will make it easy for you to be decisive on this. She has shown her true colors. Follow Lonely Husband's gameplan. Be true to yourself.


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## browser

MarriedTex said:


> She is being unnecessarily cruel.


It's like when the lion plays with it's prey before it eats it.


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## Chaparral

EleGirl said:


> browser is right, a person cannot lock their spouse out, or kick them out, of the family home.
> 
> The home is the legal residence of both spouses. Neither one has the legal right to kick the other out. And taking action to do so can get you in a lot of trouble.


Everyone here knows that and has surely read it in every thread. That doesn't mean you can't insist on her leaving. It simply means you can't make her leave. It also doesn't mean you can't ghost her and it doesn't mean you have to be the perfect roommate.

Does she hate cats? Get a cat, a long haired one. Turn the living room into a man cave. 

Aks her why her pimpin boyfriend won't take her lying cheating blank in.


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## EleGirl

ddude23 said:


> She decided to randomly come up to me and said she tried to work on our marriage. Claimed she went to a therapist and the therapist told her to follow her heart. Not even a sorry. Told her I've loved her and cherished her all these years but that woman is dead and gone and I don't want anything to do with this new one. She thinks we can be friends after this. Then went to call the other man and wish him a St Patrick's day and at the end told him not to get too drunk because they're going to have fun tonight.
> 
> She's evil. I am going to tell her family today.


So she called him in hearing distance of you?


While you cannot kick her out, if I were you, I would ask her to not return home... to move out because want she is doing is abusing you in your own home. She is rubbing her affair in your face now.

Then start doing the 180.

When she tries to talk to you, tell her that there is nothing to talk about and walk away. If she follows you, go to a room, like maybe your bedroom, and lock the door. If she starts yelling and/or banging on the door, tell her to stop. If she does not call 911 and tell them that your wife is threatening you. Keep talking to 911 so that your yelling and banging on the door can be recorded by 911.

Also, get yourself a VAR (voice activated recorder). There is nothing "normal" about what your wife is going. Her being so open about her affair is strange. It's like she is trying to get you angry to get you to act out. there is a good chance that she is now trying to get you to blow up on her. Because then she can call 911 and have your removed with a restraining order. Keep the VAR on you at all times when home and she is there. That way if she tries to escalate things, you have evidence that this is what she is doing.


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## Cynthia

Seriously, you need one of these today: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00BOXNSRY/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all

She seems to be becoming unhinged. Protect yourself.


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## threelittlestars

Dont worry old chap. Once you get that Fiery anger for this SHeet she is pulling you wont be depressed you will be high on anger. 

Seriously. ask her to leave...if she wont leave talk to your sister to legally MAKE her leave. Maybe moving her **** out into the yard will be incentive.... I dunno the legality of it... But seriously **** THAT SLUNT. Kick her to the curb. You gave up being a FATHER to stay with her. What the hell did she give up. NOTHING. 

Please know you have a brighter future because of her actions. you are free. JUST LIKE SHE IS


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

There is a special corner of hell reserved for her. She is beyond cruel. She is sadistic and evil. 

You deserve better.


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## ddude23

I think it was because I called the travel agent in front of her to cancel our trip. She seemed to get upset about that and then did it as petty revenge.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

I would go to acting looney around the house. I would make a "shopping list" and leave it where she sees it.....shovel, rope, duct tape, construction garbage bags,etc. just kidding. 

On a serious note, do something for YOU! Get with friends or family. You need support.


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## katiecrna

It seems everyone is reved up on steroids on this forum. People need to relax, and stop projecting their own experience and emotions on this man. It's still very new and he is handling it the best way he can. 

OP I think your doing great. Continue doing what your doing. She is obviously a terrible person who has no conscience, these people win the battles but lose the war. The sooner it's over the sooner you can start to heal. I would have a conversation with her about the living situation. Divorce can take sometime, and living together will just be torture for you.


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## Cynthia

katiecrna said:


> It seems everyone is reved up on steroids on this forum. People need to relax, and stop projecting their own experience and emotions on this man. It's still very new and he is handling it the best way he can.
> 
> OP I think your doing great. Continue doing what your doing. She is obviously a terrible person who has no conscience, these people win the battles but lose the war. The sooner it's over the sooner you can start to heal. I would have a conversation with her about the living situation. Divorce can take sometime, and living together will just be torture for you.


She seems to enjoy torturing him, so I don't think talking about his feelings being a reason to move out is going to make any difference.
Hopefully the divorce will go quickly. You might consider getting an appraisal of the home and talk to realtors. The sooner this is over and you don't have to deal with her anymore, the better.


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## Tobyboy

I don't think you have to worry about locking her out tonight.......pretty sure she'll be spending the weekend with her lover.


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## browser

ddude23 said:


> I think it was because I called the travel agent in front of her to cancel our trip. She seemed to get upset about that and then did it as petty revenge.


You're just making things more difficult than they already are.

Stop instigating. Just don't deal with her at ALL.


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## Abc123wife

ddude23 said:


> She came home 30 minutes ago. Banging on the door super loud, had no choice but to let her in if she called the police they would force me to let her in.


You really should have let her in her drunken state call the police. They would have come and just told you that you have to let her in. However, she would have to explain how she got there in her state of inebriation. 

So tonight... Lock up the house tight again. Let her bang and yell and carry on. Call 911 and let them hear her yelling. Tell them you are in fear since she is drunk and drove home in that condition. Then let them come and witness her drunkenness and haul her away for DWI!


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## ButtPunch

ddude23 said:


> I think it was because I called the travel agent in front of her to cancel our trip.


This needs to stop as it kicking a hornets nest.

Cool Calm and Dispassionate from now on.

Do not let her rile you up.


----------



## curious234

go for the kill. inform everyone including the her work place for abuse of privileges. be rude in every way without getting over board. do not share anything at home. DDDD get someone to check on posom. he may be married still


----------



## ButtPunch

Abc123wife said:


> You really should have let her in her drunken state call the police. They would have come and just told you that you have to let her in. However, she would have to explain how she got there in her state of inebriation.
> 
> So tonight... Lock up the house tight again. Let her bang and yell and carry on. Call 911 and let them hear her yelling. Tell them you are in fear since she is drunk and drove home in that condition. Then let them come and witness her drunkenness and haul her away for DWI!


I agree....He is under no obligation to let her in. 

She can let herself in.


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## lucy999

@ddude23 first, I'm so sorry you're here. Your pain is downright palpable in your posts.

You are doing great! I wish i could hug your sister. She's got your back and how fortunate you have a lawyer in the family. What a blessing . Let her help you and listen and do what she says.

Now for your W- don't let her dictate a thing. Not when she wants to talk about it, not if she wants to go to counseling, not if/when she moves out, nada. Zilch. Because she resigned her position as your wife and co-decision maker the moment she cheated on you. She has blown up your life as you know it. She's not in charge. You are.

YOU dictate how all of this goes down. No "asking" anything. You "tell".It's your show now. She is persona non grata and she doesn't get to make decisions that involve you or the both of you together.

Keep strong youre doing just fine.


----------



## farsidejunky

ButtPunch said:


> This needs to stop as it kicking a hornets nest.
> 
> Cool Calm and Dispassionate from now on.
> 
> Do not let her rile you up.


QFT.


----------



## Marc878

ddude23 said:


> I can't kick her out and she will not leave willingly. Her name is on the house also. Her affair partner is divorced I don't know if she is wiling to go live with him. Does not seem like it for whatever reason. We haven't even spoken today and she's been in the shower for over an hour now. I am meeting my sister in two hours.


Hard 180 no contact except for business will get you where you need to be. Any engagement with her at this time will just drag you back down.

She's probably washing other mans scent, etc off her.

Move fast and hard. Don't look back. She's shown and told you who she is. For your sake I hope you believe her.


----------



## curious234

do not quit your job. be there as long as possible. are you someone who can get a similar job easily. rough it up and do more work at job. it will keep your mind busy. again inform the b's work place possibly anonymous. go to your religious pace talk to priest. the M is gone. It is a blessing you can be a father. Yiou still analyzing what she is doing and what has happened to her - waste of time. If I were you I would wish her dead and disappear.


----------



## Marc878

ddude23 said:


> She decided to randomly come up to me and said she tried to work on our marriage. Claimed she went to a therapist and the therapist told her to follow her heart. Not even a sorry. Told her I've loved her and cherished her all these years but that woman is dead and gone and I don't want anything to do with this new one. *She thinks we can be friends after this.* Then went to call the other man and wish him a St Patrick's day and at the end told him not to get too drunk because they're going to have fun tonight.
> 
> She's evil. I am going to tell her family today.


Friend is honest, loyal, trustworthy. She's not even close. Stop the engagement. Itl do nothing for you now or ever.


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## Marc878

ddude23 said:


> I think it was because I called the travel agent in front of her to cancel our trip. She seemed to get upset about that and then did it as petty revenge.


What works best in your situation is to let your actions speak for you. You won't have to say a word. If it were me I'd do full exposure tonight all at once with no warning. Let her deal with it.


----------



## EleGirl

curious234 said:


> do not quit your job. be there as long as possible. are you someone who can get a similar job easily. rough it up and do more work at job. it will keep your mind busy. again in the b's work place possibly anonymous. go to your religious pace talk to priest. the M is gone. It is a blessing you can be a father


Dude,

The courts will look at your income based on your current income. IF you quit and cannot find a job that pays about the same, you will still have to pay any support based on your current income.

Do the 180. Stay away from her as much as you can. This will help you with your job performance. Get on antidepressants as well. They will help.

It sounds like you do not have many friends and not much of a support system other than your great sister. You need to build friends and a support system.

Take a look at the web site *We are what we do | Meetup*. Search for meetups in your local area. Find things that you enjoy doing and get out there an meet people.

Join a gym and start working out. Take very good care of yourself.

Do you have a friend who would go on a vacation with you? If so plan one and go do something that includes physical activity.. like learn to scuba dive if you don't already know how. Or go hike some mountain. Just get the hey out of the house and get active with people. I know you say that you tend to become reclusive when things are not going well, fight that.


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## curious234

do not keep brooding. gather all betraying evidence. it may help you to reduce your liability in divorce


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## ddude23

She asked if I was filing and I said yep. She told me all she wants is half of our shared income, she doesn't want spousal support or anything and no equity from our home and would like to go through mediation. I think she feels guilty, hopefully this will last.


----------



## Chaparral

Do you know who the Posom is?

What has your sister told you about having to support her?

What state do you live in? Some states still take infidelity into consideration for support and some states let you list adultery as reason for divorce and put the other man's name on the suit as public record.


----------



## curious234

ddude23 said:


> She asked if I was filing and I said yep. She told me all she wants is half of our shared income, she doesn't want spousal support or anything and no equity from our home and would like to go through mediation. I think she feels guilty, hopefully this will last.


then do not anger her. however it may be a trick to slow you down and keep you harming from her like jeopardizing her work (anyhow thinking back it may not be prudent to hit her at her job). Anyway gather all evidence of betrayal. It may help you in the divorce. Make use of her feelings to get a good deal through mediation (but I think she will change and it is simply a trick to slow you down)
Also be evasive in your responses.


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## JohnA

You need to expose, especially to OM ex-wife and your WW family. The daughter does not need two woman competing to be her mom. Been there personally with my exWW and MOM daughter. 14 year old girl, picks biggest scum bucket in HS and try's to walk past her dad into her bedroom with him saying "why not, you do it". Her mom was at her folks house the week-end. She was home in an hour and out put end to that nonsense. 

You expose regardless if you are divorcing or reconciling. Right now you are in a fight 3 against one. Her, the OM, and the "therapist" against you. Let your sister in, tell her you are all in. Remember the post I shared by @Marc878, kindness of random strangers? 

180 now, I gave younthe link earlier, your only response is talk to my lawyer.


----------



## Lostinthought61

ddude23 said:


> She asked if I was filing and I said yep. She told me all she wants is half of our shared income, she doesn't want spousal support or anything and no equity from our home and would like to go through mediation. I think she feels guilty, hopefully this will last.


TAKE IT!!!!! and move on with your life.....please don't even think about it


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

ddude23 said:


> She asked if I was filing and I said yep. She told me all she wants is half of our shared income, she doesn't want spousal support or anything and no equity from our home and would like to go through mediation. I think she feels guilty, hopefully this will last.


Her telling you she wants mediation is indicative the POSOM is coaching or she already consulted s lawyer. Let your sister lead you on this. I smell a trap.


----------



## OnTheRocks

JohnA said:


> You need to expose, especially to OM ex-wife and your WW family. The daughter does not need two woman competing to be her mom. Been there personally with my exWW and MOM daughter. 14 year old girl, picks biggest scum bucket in HS and try's to walk past her dad into her bedroom with him saying "why not, you do it". Her mom was at her folks house the week-end. She was home in an hour and out put end to that nonsense.
> 
> You expose regardless if you are divorcing or reconciling. Right now you are in a fight 3 against one. Her, the OM, and the "therapist" against you. Let your sister in, tell her you are all in. Remember the post I shared by @Marc878, kindness of random strangers?
> 
> 180 now, I gave younthe link earlier, your only response is talk to my lawyer.


DISAGREE - do not to anything (like exposure) that will piss her off further until you have a favorable signed agreement, if you can get one. Use whatever feelings of guilt / rainbows & unicorns / whatever she has right now to your advantage. 

I would suggest joining a group fitness gym. It's a great way to get out of the house, start working on the FU body, and get your mind right, not to mention all the hotties.


----------



## 23cm

Old Italian saying, "Revenge is a dish best served cold."

Get out of your marriage as soon as possible and while she is in the fog. Do nothing before the final decree that upsets her apple cart. Stand fast on matters of property and money, but as far as outing or shaming anyone--your WW or the other man...just don't. Play for the long game and get/secure as much as you can. She will have friends and possibly the OM counseling her to take you for as much as she can, but don't give her any reason. You're not sacrificing any self-respect if you work toward an end that advantages you and disadvantages her. 

Listen to your lawyer. My experience is that sisters love their bros, and so yours should be a tiger on your behalf. If there's nastiness to be done, let your lawyer do it. 

Once the last i is dotted and the last t is crossed, if it then makes you feel good... then let them swim with the fishes (metaphorically speaking, of course.)


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## JohnA

Disagree with disagree. Unless your sister/lawyer can give you compelling reasons not to. I too smell a trap caused by POSM coaching her. You would not believe the **** my exWW head was filled with by her POSM. We where heading to full on court battle (like you one dog, house, no kids) till he got got his head handed to him by his BS and my in-laws. Yes my in-laws. They leveled my ex, told her in no uncertain terms that while the accepted her decsion to divorce (a poor one in their view) her boyfriend would never be welcomed in any of their homes, so leave him home when she came.

She went to sister's home for thanksgiving and they had broken up by Christmas. (Their is a type of alcoholic described as: wet or dry they are a drunk)


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## Cynthia

It's good that she wants to go to mediation and she is saying she doesn't want anything, but ignore her and have your sister represent you. There is no reason whatsoever for you to go the mediation route unless your sister can do it for you.


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## straightshooter

ddude23 said:


> She asked if I was filing and I said yep. She told me all she wants is half of our shared income, she doesn't want spousal support or anything and no equity from our home and would like to go through mediation. I think she feels guilty, hopefully this will last.


Dude,

If she is getting coaching from anyone who is telling her to give up half the home equity and take the deal she says she wants, then whoever is coaching her has **** for brains. if you have equity she is entitled to half in most states. Your sister should be able to tell you about the shared income and mediation. if she is your attorney, listen to her, not any of us. Every jurisdiction can be different.

This behavior she is exhibiting and her so eager to also divorce seems to point to OM actually being divorced and wanting to be a 'couple' with her. The MC thing was just a stall to keep you clueless. As far as what her therapist told her, its probably true because your wife most likely told therapist she was not in love with you and a whole bunch of other ****. That is why personally i believe this sending WW immediately to IC is stupid, when you would have no idea what is said.

My guess is your sister is going to tell you NOT to attempt to get her fired. How that helps you I do not know. Especially if she does decide not to accept what she is saying she wants.

And lastly, do yourself a favor. Stop engaging her in any conversation. There are no kids to talk about, and if she really expected you to go on vacation with her she is truly insane. 

Now get with your sister and find out the quickest way to get this woman out of your life.


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## TX-SC

CynthiaDe said:


> It's good that she wants to go to mediation and she is saying she doesn't want anything, but ignore her and have your sister represent you. There is no reason whatsoever for you to go the mediation route unless your sister can do it for you.


I agree. Present this information to your sister and see what she advises. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

ddude23 said:


> She thinks we can be friends after this.


They all think they can be friends. They are less evolved humans. There empathy is missing. They have no shame. The best way is to get as far away as possible.


----------



## honcho

ddude23 said:


> She asked if I was filing and I said yep. She told me all she wants is half of our shared income, she doesn't want spousal support or anything and no equity from our home and would like to go through mediation. I think she feels guilty, hopefully this will last.


It's not guilt, she thinks she is going off to a new "perfect life" with Mr wonderful and it all just magically works out. It lasts as long as the euphoria of affairland lasts. 

This is another reason why speed on your part is your advantage. The quicker you get a deal done the better off you will be because once/if the affair falls apart the deal always changes. Talk to your sister about the laws in your state, some states if your in complete agreement of day one you can be divorced in 90 days, other states have year long separations etc. They vary greatly.


----------



## *Deidre*

sokillme said:


> They all think they can be friends. They are less evolved humans. There empathy is missing. They have no shame. The best way is to get as far away as possible.


That's a typical narcissist's mantra ''but, can we still be friends?'' Meaning, I want you to be my friend, so if the OM/OW doesn't work out, I can still come to you for anything, because well, we're friends. They don't know how to be friends.


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## mickybill

Why go thru mediation?
Why be friends?

Seems likes she's willing to walk away...let her.


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## Marc878

Leave for the weekend. Go to your sisters, friends, etc but get out of the house for awhile. It'll help clear your head and do you some good to not be around that. Turn off your phone!!!!


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## ddude23

She invited me over for a little party they're having tonight. I don't know if I want to go. Maybe I should just afraid I'm going to be sad and mopey the whole time and ruin the vibe. This hurt is killing me.


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## farsidejunky

Go. Get out of the house for a while.


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## browser

mickybill said:


> Why go thru mediation?
> Why be friends?
> 
> Seems likes she's willing to walk away...let her.


Because if the mediate he can save 10s of thousands of dollars in legally fees and probably get a better settlement because she's in a hurry to end her marriage so she can live happily ever after with her affair partner. It has nothing to do with being friends and everything to do with the fact that she is ready and willing to walk away from the marriage and her state of mind may not last so he needs to act fast and maintain civility but be detached and not do anything stupid such as accept her offer to go to a party with her.


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## GusPolinski

ddude23 said:


> She invited me over for a little party they're having tonight. I don't know if I want to go. Maybe I should just afraid I'm going to be sad and mopey the whole time and ruin the vibe. This hurt is killing me.


Wait... what?

You've got to be kidding me.

Are you talking about your wife or your sister?


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## NoChoice

ddude23 said:


> She asked if I was filing and I said yep. She told me all she wants is half of our shared income, she doesn't want spousal support or anything and no equity from our home and would like to go through mediation. I think she feels guilty, hopefully this will last.


OP,
Remember this, she is many things but guilty is not one of them and neither is remorseful, sorry, empathetic nor caring. Her OM sounds quite the prize also, so much so that she has to tell him not to get too drunk before their date. Seems to be a match made in Heaven or maybe somewhat south of there.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Go to your sisters party.


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## Marc878

ddude23 said:


> She invited me over for a little party they're having tonight. I don't know if I want to go. Maybe I should just afraid I'm going to be sad and mopey the whole time and ruin the vibe. This hurt is killing me.


Get out and go. Stay over for the weekend


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## Drumstick

Ddude23,

I think you've got a walk away wife (WAW), also known as an exit affair. With a WAW, it doesn't matter whom is the OM, it only matters that there is an OM to force you, ddude23, into making an adult decision for them. So, the chances of the WAW ever returning is slim, to none. I think some evidence of this is found in the fact that she "went to counseling to work on the marriage," but seemingly forgot to mention that she had issues with the marriage, and that she was going to counseling for this. Further, the rapidity with which she gave you her planned settlement conditions, and further with such lowball conditions (she is basically bending very and taking it), also suggests a WAW, in my opinion. 

There is supposedly a good book about WAWs, by Michelle Langley I think. I've never read it, but from what I've gathered, the relationships the WAWs leave to generally have the same feelings of emptiness, and lack of fulfillment, after a few years. To put it another way, WAWs are character disordered, looking to others for their happiness. Therefore, after a few years they either start looking to have another affair for fulfillment, or get themselves into deep therapy to learn why they expect others to make them happy. At that point, the WAW may come looking for you again. Hopefully your "give a ****" is long gone by then.

I've been through this ****, and I am an attorney. I strongly recommend you utilize your sister's services, especially if she is a bulldog as you mentioned, and can keep an appropriate mix of detachment and emotion throughout this process. Further, run, don't walk, at you wife's proposed settlement. Be happy you don't have kids. I didn't, and it made it so much easier. Hadn't talked to her in eight years, and then she reached out to me via email to say she was sorry, and made a lot of stupid decisions, about two years ago. My "give a ****" was gone by then, and all I replied with was "Thanks." Haven't heard from her since.

I'd also recommend that you get into some therapy. You may learn some about yourself, and why your "pucker" didn't see this coming sooner. It helped me a lot. 

Otherwise, hang in there. You're doing well considering your wife has a four plus month head start on you. You've got this!


----------



## mickybill

browser said:


> Because if the mediate he can save 10s of thousands of dollars in legally fees and probably get a better settlement because she's in a hurry to end her marriage so she can live happily ever after with her affair partner. It has nothing to do with being friends and everything to do with the fact that she is ready and willing to walk away from the marriage and her state of mind may not last so he needs to act fast and maintain civility but be detached and not do anything stupid such as accept her offer to go to a party with her.


I think (hope) the party is at the sisters.

If the WW is willing to sign way things she said she will she has a crappy lawyer or no lawyer. Dude could get her to agree to things not in her favor if as you say he does it quickly. 

When I went to a mediator her job as a neutral party was to make things equatable and would probably convince the WW to get her fair share. I was in a no fault state so the cause of the divorce didn't matter. 

If it takes weeks or months to meet with a mediator WS will have talked to the OM and the OM lawyer and will most likely retract her offer.


----------



## Drumstick

Ddude23's wife may or may not have an attorney. While not necessary, you can bring an attorney to mediation, or even have your attorney wholly represent your interests.

In my experience, the job of a mediator is not necessarily to make things a 50/50 split (i.e., truly equitable). Instead, their job is to make it fair to what the parties think is equitable. With his wife's lowball starting point, even if she gets a little more, ddude23 is still coming out way ahead.

With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if his sister quickly drafts a separation agreement and has ddude23 pass it by her for signature with all the major terms she laid out. Honestly, with her major terms laid out at this point, there really is little need to go through mediation. They should be able to figure out who gets the dog, toaster, and forks with little need for a third party. Then these additional changes can be amended into separation agreement, and filed at the Clerk's office on the correct date.


----------



## ddude23

I don't understand. I really don't. Everything was fine and good. If she says anything else she's lying. Before her affair started she would text me she couldn't wait I couldn't get home to see me. We were that kind of couple. Just genuinely enjoyed being with each other. Never spent nights away from one another and never went to bed mad. Also a decent amount of sex, not a dead bedroom. 

Everything gone like that. So many memories, pictures, trips. She was the best thing in my life and my best friend. We were so close I just feel like I've lost apart of me. I guess I was/am co dependent. She is too, even moreso than me. When will I accept that she's gone?


----------



## EleGirl

ddude23 said:


> I don't understand. I really don't. Everything was fine and good. If she says anything else she's lying. Before her affair started she would text me she couldn't wait I couldn't get home to see me. We were that kind of couple. Just genuinely enjoyed being with each other. Never spent nights away from one another and never went to bed mad. Also a decent amount of sex, not a dead bedroom.
> 
> Everything gone like that. So many memories, pictures, trips. She was the best thing in my life and my best friend. We were so close I just feel like I've lost apart of me. I guess I was/am co dependent. She is too, even moreso than me. When will I accept that she's gone?


It's called the affair fog. When a person gets into an affair, their brain produces so much dopamine and oxytocin that they are as high as they would be on contain. It causes re-writing of history.

Every hear the expression that love is blind? It's about the same thing. She's so high that she has no attachment to reality right now.


----------



## GusPolinski

ddude23 said:


> I don't understand. I really don't. Everything was fine and good. If she says anything else she's lying. Before her affair started she would text me she couldn't wait I couldn't get home to see me. We were that kind of couple. Just genuinely enjoyed being with each other. Never spent nights away from one another and never went to bed mad. Also a decent amount of sex, not a dead bedroom.
> 
> Everything gone like that. So many memories, pictures, trips. She was the best thing in my life and my best friend. We were so close I just feel like I've lost apart of me. I guess I was/am co dependent. She is too, even moreso than me. When will I accept that she's gone?


She's lying and she knows it.

But she _has_ to lie, because -- in her mind -- for her to do what she did, your marriage must have been just awful.

So the hamster gets on its wheel and the gears start turning.

That's how she rationalizes and justifies her behavior.

It's also how she avoids any meaningful responsibility for it.

She'll wake up st some point, though.

And hopefully it will all be so far behind you (or, at the very least, you'll be sufficiently detached from it all) that you'll just ignore her.

Years from now, once you've remarried and your new wife is expecting your first child, be sure to put your STBXW's name on the list for birth announcements.


----------



## Chaparral

For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner-Davis’s Divorce Busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say “I Love You”.
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold – just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes.

2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it’s the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done — that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That’s not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it’s a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That’s when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what’s going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you’re doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


----------



## aine

ddude23 said:


> She invited me over for a little party they're having tonight. I don't know if I want to go. Maybe I should just afraid I'm going to be sad and mopey the whole time and ruin the vibe. This hurt is killing me.


You are supposed to be doing the 180, you are going out with your friends tonight, sorry you cannot make it! 
Ddude you are not following the advice on here, stop the moping and do the 180 now


----------



## commonsenseisn't

ddude23 said:


> She asked if I was filing and I said yep. She told me all she wants is half of our shared income, she doesn't want spousal support or anything and no equity from our home and would like to go through mediation. I think she feels guilty, hopefully this will last.


She will reverse this position before it's over. You can bank on it, and you would do well to brace yourself for an assault to financially gouge you for all she can. 

Don't take anything for granted, and let your lawyer do her job.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

ddude23 said:


> I don't understand.... When will I accept that she's gone?


It's a process rather than an event. The important thing is your adversary has a head start on you and in order to salvage your dignity and expedite healing you need to be really diligent in following the 180. You loved her and that is hard to reverse, but you must for your own sake. 

I advise you to not be petty or add to the drama. You're the adult here, not her, thus you need to control the flow of events by maintaining distance from her and not allowing her to engage you in trivia she can use to manipulate you. Speaking with her is like wrestling a pig... it just gets you dirty and the pig likes it. You can bank on the fact that EVERYTHING she will say to you is contrived to manipulate you, so just don't go there with her. Be polite, but deflect her asap. 

Just let her go. If you must speak with her just say something like this: Wife, I have loved you faithfully for these years and thus I want you to follow your heart. I think you and the other guy deserve each other and I won't stand in your way. Please move in with him asap and allow our divorce to proceed quickly so we can each get on with our lives. Good luck.

The reality is they do deserve each other, and you deserve to get rid of her. If she reverses her stance and wants you back you will be very wise to tell her that she already made her decision and what's done can't be undone.


----------



## JohnA

It's a sales term. Sometimes your offer mets every need and is best priced best offer yet the client stalls. Why? 

Their are many on line directories that either list the therapist with their qualifications or offer comments about them. Also search using his name to see if he is published. Finally call him and ask for the titles of several books he finds very insightful.

PS: my iPad is having a lot of problems with this site. I tried to reapond yes to your request but it did not go though.


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## JohnA

Wrong thread, sorry


----------



## sokillme

ddude23 said:


> I don't understand. I really don't. Everything was fine and good. If she says anything else she's lying. Before her affair started she would text me she couldn't wait I couldn't get home to see me. We were that kind of couple. Just genuinely enjoyed being with each other. Never spent nights away from one another and never went to bed mad. Also a decent amount of sex, not a dead bedroom.
> 
> Everything gone like that. So many memories, pictures, trips. She was the best thing in my life and my best friend. We were so close I just feel like I've lost apart of me. I guess I was/am co dependent. She is too, even moreso than me. When will I accept that she's gone?


She was a phony. Her love for you was really about herself. She loved what you did for her. Now she found someone else who does for her. You really had one chance, when she told you she had feelings for the other guy you would have needed to tell her it's over and then filed. That may have shocked her out if it but seeing the kind of person you would have ended up with would you really want her. You can't nice them back, you can't do anything because they behave like monsters. They lose all respect for themselves, they degrade themselves. Seriously anyone with any objective mindset can see what she is doing is truly evil. Yet she is running whole heatedly towards it. I mean even if her love for you is over you would think she would just have some human decency and kindness. Some form of loyalty for the years you built together. But most of them don't. This is why I repeatedly call them garbage. They so easily discard people who have been loyal to them for bells and whistles. They don't even get the concept. When you do that you end up left with very shallow relationships. Why anyone would want to be with anyone who could be so evil is beyond me. 

The truth is though at some point this was always going to happen because she lacked the character it takes to have a long term relationship. 

Just watch where she ends up in 10 years. She will be used up and lonely. She will probably have many boyfriends but no real love. She is broken dude. She is a broken human being. She has been raised to care about one person herself you were an extension of herself, now that other guy is. Sadly there seems to be a whole hell of a lot of women like this. About one thread a day. I don't envy young men out there. The men are just as bad, but some of the women have a special kind of cruelty. 

I suspect finding out she is barren had something to do with it as well, that probably change her whole entire long term thinking. Maybe she married you because she thought you would be a good father. Now that there is no chance for that she wants something else maybe its money. Who knows. 

Two hard lessons in life to learn are, there are cruel evil people in this world, and some of them are charming and attractive. They can hide their true nature very well. And the other is in this life everything eventually ends. This is now the time for this relationship to end for you. Embrace it and move to the next phase of your life.


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## TaDor

browser said:


> I suggest the Op ignore this advice which is clearly coming from an emotional place and will cause more problems than it will ever solve.
> 
> There's a lot of reckless advice being thrown out on this thread. I hope the Op thinks twice before following any of it.


Hence, I thought I said that he should get advice from a lawyer before doing so. I called my police dept.

By dragging his feet, she may get an idea to FILE against him to force him out of the house.


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## TaDor

ddude23 : Yeah, went through that too. Days after the poop hit the fan, "we" were talking mediation and co-parenting. She too, got crap advice from the OM - even threatened me that his father would represent her. (his dad is a REAL lawyer) But she lied about that. I'm not sure why - but it was to generally get me to do things. Instead, I filed papers against her. 
She threatened to pull the trigger... But I actually *DID* when I filed the paperwork, etc.

She is offering you a quick and easy deal, she wants to be DONE QUICK. I offered a deal for the wife to make the court go as fast as possible. 
Talk to you sister about it TODAY. Schedule mediation tomorrow. sign it, get it notarized, etc - whatever and let the door smack her in the butt.

It will take about 1-2 months for the worst part. It does get better. If you are in a major city, locate a co-dependency meeting - its kind of like AA. It's called CODA

*SHE* is in a fog. It lasts for months - depending on factors. You can worry about maybe getting her back after the divorce - but if you do proper 180, why bother? She wants his kids - he is family-ready. And you get access to millions of women, who can have children. It sucks, it hurts. But you need to move quickly.

You are SO YOUNG. 33 years old. You can date chicks 21+ easily. I was dating / having sex with women in their 20s even into my 40s. I was 40 when I meet my future wife at 25yrs old. I'm 47 with a 3yr old... I'm enjoying being a dad. You could be missing out. Your cheating wife has given you a painful gift. Take it. she gets a chunk of change and *IS GONE*... no alimony, no constant court dates or contacts about money or kids. She is likely thinking that too... Take a bit out of your flesh and leave you forever.


----------



## Chaparral

ddude23 said:


> She asked if I was filing and I said yep. She told me all she wants is half of our shared income, she doesn't want spousal support or anything and no equity from our home and would like to go through mediation. I think she feels guilty, hopefully this will last.


Have your sister draw up papers that reflect her current offers and see if she will sign them. Assuming , of course your sister also thinks your getting a good deal. The longer she has to think and be coached by other people the more she will want.


----------



## NoChoice

ddude23 said:


> I don't understand. I really don't. Everything was fine and good. If she says anything else she's lying. Before her affair started she would text me she couldn't wait I couldn't get home to see me. We were that kind of couple. Just genuinely enjoyed being with each other. Never spent nights away from one another and never went to bed mad. Also a decent amount of sex, not a dead bedroom.
> 
> Everything gone like that. So many memories, pictures, trips. She was the best thing in my life and my best friend. We were so close I just feel like I've lost apart of me. I guess I was/am co dependent. She is too, even moreso than me. When will I accept that she's gone?


OP,
I offer this as a means for you to possibly understand, to the extent possible, what is going on in your W's mind or not going on as the case may be. You must realize that the overwhelming majority of cheaters are mentally underdeveloped. As you process thought you extract bits of data from various portions of your brain and compile it and extrapolate, projecting possible outcomes. This is the normal, mature way to makes decisions. If the projected outcome is negative, harmful, destructive or what have you the decision is made NOT to do or say the thing.

A large part of that process for developed intellects is the consideration of the projected outcome on others, this is empathy, being able to place yourself into someone else's situation and imagine how they would feel and to actually care about their feelings. Another part is self preservation, determining how the outcome will affect you and your future.

Now this is difficult but try to imagine if your underdeveloped brain, due to lack of synaptic connections and storage limitations, did not have ready access to the data or if the stored data was simply not there, never being put into long term storage What then? As a decision was contemplated what would you use to base any projected outcome on? If there is insufficient data then it is impossible that the resultant outcome will not be erroneous.

It may help you to think of it this way. Imagine yourself at Disneyworld, a place you may visit with your new W and child but I digress. Now imagine you, as the adult, are contemplating safety, schedule, financial considerations, weather concerns and so on. For you the park is not as simple as just having fun. Now consider the child. The child has no thought for the considerations you are pondering, they simply see the fun. They get off of one ride and immediately run to the next as you call for them to "slow down". Their thoughts are only about the next fun ride.

As the day progresses they suddenly stop in mid stride on their way to another ride and declare "I have to go to the bathroom". So you accommodate them. In another little while they pause again and say "I'm hungry", to which you respond "what do you want to eat" and they answer "I don't know" so you, as the adult, decide on the most prudent lunch menu.

Do you really expect the child to answer you by saying "well I have been expending a lot of energy, burning a lot of calories so I feel a meal consisting of a mixture of carbohydrates and protein, with a small amount of sugar would best facilitate my activities for the rest of the day as I continue to experience the opportunities for enjoyment that this park has to offer"? To expect such would be delusional for they are driven by instinct rather than cognitive thought. They go by feelings.

In this scenario you are the adult, your W is the child and life is the amusement park. To expect more from her would be inviting disappointment, she is not capable. For a time you were the "fun and exciting" ride, no pun intended, but now she has become tired of you and is off, running, to the next exciting ride. She has no concern for her safety, her future, her health but rather only knows that she is now "hungry" for more fun.

Now the next ride has less to offer than the ride she is on but that is not part of her thought process, she only thinks "it is new and different and will be better than this ride". No, or very very little, contemplative thought has gone into this "decision" and the outcome is therefore erroneous but she does not see it, her eyes are fixed on that next ride. Soon she will tire of that ride and her focus will shift to a new one.

Sometimes the cognitive process is dependent on more time and experience. In other words, sometimes the WS does process more of the available data as time and the experience of the new ride combine and they "come to their senses" and want to go back to the initial ride not understanding how badly they damaged that ride on their departure. I do not believe that your W is capable of that level of thought and will "run" from ride to ride throughout her time in Disneyworld.

If you do not find this helpful simply ignore it. I wish you well as you proceed.


----------



## Greygeese

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> I offer this as a means for you to possibly understand, to the extent possible, what is going on in your W's mind or not going on as the case may be. You must realize that the overwhelming majority of cheaters are mentally underdeveloped. As you process thought you extract bits of data from various portions of your brain and compile it and extrapolate, projecting possible outcomes. This is the normal, mature way to makes decisions. If the projected outcome is negative, harmful, destructive or what have you the decision is made NOT to do or say the thing.
> 
> A large part of that process for developed intellects is the consideration of the projected outcome on others, this is empathy, being able to place yourself into someone else's situation and imagine how they would feel and to actually care about their feelings. Another part is self preservation, determining how the outcome will affect you and your future.
> 
> Now this is difficult but try to imagine if your underdeveloped brain, due to lack of synaptic connections and storage limitations, did not have ready access to the data or if the stored data was simply not there, never being put into long term storage What then? As a decision was contemplated what would you use to base any projected outcome on? If there is insufficient data then it is impossible that the resultant outcome will not be erroneous.
> 
> It may help you to think of it this way. Imagine yourself at Disneyworld, a place you may visit with your new W and child but I digress. Now imagine you, as the adult, are contemplating safety, schedule, financial considerations, weather concerns and so on. For you the park is not as simple as just having fun. Now consider the child. The child has no thought for the considerations you are pondering, they simply see the fun. They get off of one ride and immediately run to the next as you call for them to "slow down". Their thoughts are only about the next fun ride.
> 
> As the day progresses they suddenly stop in mid stride on their way to another ride and declare "I have to go to the bathroom". So you accommodate them. In another little while they pause again and say "I'm hungry", to which you respond "what do you want to eat" and they answer "I don't know" so you, as the adult, decide on the most prudent lunch menu.
> 
> Do you really expect the child to answer you by saying "well I have been expending a lot of energy, burning a lot of calories so I feel a meal consisting of a mixture of carbohydrates and protein, with a small amount of sugar would best facilitate my activities for the rest of the day as I continue to experience the opportunities for enjoyment that this park has to offer"? To expect such would be delusional for they are driven by instinct rather than cognitive thought. They go by feelings.
> 
> In this scenario you are the adult, your W is the child and life is the amusement park. To expect more from her would be inviting disappointment, she is not capable. For a time you were the "fun and exciting" ride, no pun intended, but now she has become tired of you and is off, running, to the next exciting ride. She has no concern for her safety, her future, her health but rather only knows that she is now "hungry" for more fun.
> 
> Now the next ride has less to offer than the ride she is on but that is not part of her thought process, she only thinks "it is new and different and will be better than this ride". No, or very very little, contemplative thought has gone into this "decision" and the outcome is therefore erroneous but she does not see it, her eyes are fixed on that next ride. Soon she will tire of that ride and her focus will shift to a new one.
> 
> Sometimes the cognitive process is dependent on more time and experience. In other words, sometimes the WS does process more of the available data as time and the experience of the new ride combine and they "come to their senses" and want to go back to the initial ride not understanding how badly they damaged that ride on their departure. I do not believe that your W is capable of that level of thought and will "run" from ride to ride throughout her time in Disneyworld.
> 
> If you do not find this helpful simply ignore it. I wish you well as you proceed.




Great analogy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ddude23

Yeah my sister is going to draw up papers with the ageeement we bad in place about the money. We have to talk about the retirement accounts though and other things. All she said was she won't ask for spousal support and home equity. 

She didn't come home last night. Of course I shouldn't care, but I feel like ****. I want to get everything moving so I can get out of this hell. She is adamant that she wants mediation. I want to get everything signed. Should I just contact her and tell her what we're dividing and how we are proceeding so I can get papers signed? I don't want to wait all weekened for her to change her mind.


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## straightshooter

ddude23 said:


> I don't understand. I really don't. Everything was fine and good. If she says anything else she's lying. Before her affair started she would text me she couldn't wait I couldn't get home to see me. We were that kind of couple. Just genuinely enjoyed being with each other. Never spent nights away from one another and never went to bed mad. Also a decent amount of sex, not a dead bedroom.
> 
> Everything gone like that. So many memories, pictures, trips. She was the best thing in my life and my best friend. We were so close I just feel like I've lost apart of me. I guess I was/am co dependent. She is too, even moreso than me. When will I accept that she's gone?


Dude,

There is nothing to really understand that is going to help you. What has happened here is not unique. Most betrayed spouses get blindsided and are asking the same questions. Her behavior has been going on for going on a half year, and if she was the way you describe all during that time all it means is she was able to compartmentalize it and justify it because as she told you she did not love you like you loved her. 
If she was showing any signs of remorse and wanting to stay with you, the "why" might matter. Right now, all the analysis of her mental state does nothing to get you protected financially and get you out of this bad situation, which is going to get unfortunately worse if you have to stay in that house and watch her "date" her boyfriend every night. Your only focus right now needs to be on ending that situation.
She is going to continue with this guy, and if for some reason it does not work out, most likely if it is within a reasonable time period she will try to lure you back in since she does not make that much money. Hopefully, you will not be fooled twice.

You have a sister who is on your team and is legally qualified to help you. my friend, that is a big advantage versus others who struggle to even afford an attorney. If OM has three kids or whatever, unless he makes a lot of money, it is unlikely he is going to bankroll her legal efforts. But listen to your sister because if I understand mediation correctly, the mediator will try to make it "fair", which means she probably is entitled to more than she says she wants. 

Stop engaging her and stop hanging around the house brooding about what she is doing. yes it is hard, but you have to do it. We can't do it for you. You will get through this.


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## cbnero

Dude - couple things

1. Ignore her. Never try to have a reasonable conversation with an unreasonable person. Right now her head is filled with cats and you will go crazy trying to figure out what she is thinking. So stop! There is no point in having any discussion with her about anything with the marriage. Pretty evident she doesn't care about you so why bother trying to show her you are hurt? She intentionally betrayed you dude. This wasn't an accident. So wise up!

2. If she is willing to basically walk away - TAKE IT! Get the divorce done NOW. If you wait, and her life turns to crap, who do you think she will blame? Herself? Haha, yeah right! If 6 months from now you are still married to her, you could very likely be stuck in a divorce where she gets a lawyer who demands it all! You can always remarry her later if you both choose to reconcile. I am telling you - this is a gift!!! 

Went through it personally, and I didn't want a divorce at all. Fortunately I had a great lawyer who explained the same thing to me and it saved my life. My cheating ex didn't even hire a lawyer. 3 years later she constantly brings up how she got screwed and how I got everything. That's right, I did!

Save yourself! Forget the OM, forget your traitorous wife that conned you. Play along and get the divorce done now. Agree with her about her choices and put the pedal to the metal!!!!!


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## cbnero

One other thing ---

I would NOT do mediation. Why would you let crazy draw up the paperwork or enter negotiations with a psycho? Do you really think the 2 of you will be able to calmly and rationally have that conversation? Not going to happen. And why would you want a mediator pointing crap out?

This is very simple. She told you what she is looking for already! So have the divorce agreement drafted accordingly and delivered to her to sign. Done! 

Also have your lawyer (sister or whomever) get the court date filed and served along with the proposed divorce decree. If she wants any changes she will let you know.

Stay the heck away from mediation!


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## harrybrown

have your sister handle the communication.

You go N/C.


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## ddude23

If going through a mediator is a way for me to avoid paying spousal support, save money, and get this done quicker then I will do it. My sister is going to write up a divorce agreement anyway with the 50/50 income split with no spousal support. 

She made a remark about how she knows this is her fault, so she won't take anything extra. Guess that's as close to an apology as I'll get. 

I'm already feeling anxious about explaining this to family and mutual friends. I don't want to piss her off. They will all probably take her side, everyone loves her. I guess I will know who really supports me after this. 

The other man is a real estate agent. Multiple kids and an ex wife. I unfortunately spent time stalking his social media.


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## drifting on

ddude

One very important aspect regarding the law is to ask your sister if your wife needs representation before signing anything. Your wife is being coached by someone who has gone through a divorce. If this OM was brutalized in his divorce he will coach your wife on how to brutalize you. If she signs anything to give away spousal support a first year attorney would argue she signed under duress. Thus vacating anything she signed or agreed to for divorce. 

Your wife's actions are cruel and despicable, don't think for one second she won't return to that after being nice for a fleeting moment. This is war for you, treat it as one, and legally get your best deal. If she is all agreeable, get your sister to get her to sign. Your sister will do it legally. 

You don't have to be cruel, or even mean, but get your sister to get an order of protection. Base it upon verbal abuse if you need to. What I'm truly hoping is that your wife doesn't keep coming home and you can get her for abandonment to kick her out. Have your sister check into this with your state laws. 

Best of luck to you.


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## phillybeffandswiss

^^^Pay attention to this post.


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## mickybill

ddude23 said:


> ...
> She made a remark about how she knows this is her fault, so she won't take anything extra. Guess that's as close to an apology as I'll get.
> 
> I'm already feeling anxious about explaining this to family and mutual friends. I don't want to piss her off. They will all probably take her side, everyone loves her. I guess I will know who really supports me after this.
> 
> The other man is a real estate agent. Multiple kids and an ex wife. I unfortunately spent time stalking his social media.


Any apology is hollow and means nothing. If it was a mistake, then she could apologize. This is a long series of thousands of decisions to lie to you, cheat and end your marriage. No apology can make up for it. 

I doubt people will take "her side". Most don;t really care, but if they know the truth they know she didn't do anything honorable. When I got divorced 10 years ago, 6 out of 6 of her family members eventually told me they thought my Xw went crazy. I still am friends with my xSIL and xMIL, I have had 3 emails with xWin 10 years.

Everyone wants to know a bit about the OM or OW don't feel bad.

You have made it through the bomb going off in your marriage. That was the worst thing. With your sister and friend and even strangers on the internet it will get better. Take care of yourself and realize that for the foreseeable future anything she says is for her and not your benefit. She is being coached by a divorced real estate guy, assume she is lying if she is talking.

The Dude abides.


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## TaDor

We may use the word meditation as in "rather than trial" - and in many trials - the Judge will ask or demand that the two parties attempt to mediate an agreement first.

If you both agree on what the settlement is, then the order can be drafted - approved by both sides - then have the judge make it legit. In my own situation, since we had a general agreement, the judge ordered us to get mediation to hammer out the final orders. This is usually $1500~5000 (2 lawyers @ $250 an hour x 6 hours is typical = $3K). There are law schools than can do it for free ~ $150. But in the end, we were allowed to submit final orders without lawyers or mediation. I took a friend's court orders. Removed items that did not pertain to me or us. Looked up other examples and referred to law that on the books (internet - ie: don't USE law from another state). Printed it out - we both signed it, then the juge looked over it before signing it. 

So here is how it works: There are laws for requirements if parties don't agree (Child support / alimony / house etc) So even if the law allows her to have $$ from the home, whatever - but one party doesn't want it - she can sign an agreement to that.

Wish ya luck


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## drifting on

ddude

Forgot to tell you, list the reason for divorce as adultery and name OM on the divorce papers. This will most likely make your cheating wife very angry. Have your sister use this as leverage in the divorce proceedings. Also after you divorce is final you can then expose publicly if you wish to do so. I'm not sure if a dance class studio or real estate company would like this type of image. I can tell you I have gotten my wife's OM fired from his next job. Some may disagree with doing this, but I view it as war, I will do things within the law until he is six feet under. Just how I am wired.


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## curious234

DDude. Are you with your loved ones? I know by experience facing pain alone is very difficult unless you are mentally strong (I hope you are). Otherwise get loved ones involved and be with them during some of your free time. Your marriage has no apparent faults. So your b of a wife is most probably in two minds (I think this because she get drunk when she is with the POSOM) Read some of similar threads where WW stray for no reasons. If so she will surprise you by many turn arounds and some ridiculous comments. Hope you can settle everything while she in this probable state. Real estate agents -most finacially sleazy. Hope WW has not told POSOM about the finances . He will milk the maximum


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## Cynthia

ddude23 said:


> I think it was because I called the travel agent in front of her to cancel our trip. She seemed to get upset about that and then did it as petty revenge.


You cancel your trip with her because she is having sex with another man and she repays you by talking to the other man in front of you regarding having sex with him. She is an idiot. She is messed up in the head. Of course you’re going to cancel the trip. What else would she expect? Why would she even be upset that you don’t want to go on vacation with her? Her response makes no sense whatsoever. She should expect you to never speak to her again. What a nut.



ddude23 said:


> I don't understand. I really don't. Everything was fine and good. If she says anything else she's lying. Before her affair started she would text me she couldn't wait I couldn't get home to see me. We were that kind of couple. Just genuinely enjoyed being with each other. Never spent nights away from one another and never went to bed mad. Also a decent amount of sex, not a dead bedroom.
> 
> Everything gone like that. So many memories, pictures, trips. She was the best thing in my life and my best friend. We were so close I just feel like I've lost apart of me. I guess I was/am co dependent. She is too, even moreso than me. When will I accept that she's gone?


This just happened. It will take time. Don’t try to figure out where you went wrong, because it wasn’t you that went wrong. It was her. You can’t read her mind, but you do know from how she has been behaving and her horrid attitude that she is not thinking right. She is making excuses for her betrayal. There is no excuse for what she has done and no way to understand it.

Yes, she is lying. She’s lying about a lot of things right now. It’s best not to even speak to her, because she is not being honest, even with herself.



Chaparral said:


> Have your sister draw up papers that reflect her current offers and see if she will sign them. Assuming , of course your sister also thinks your getting a good deal. The longer she has to think and be coached by other people the more she will want.


Excellent advice from Chaparral. The sooner you can get this done, the better. You could end up with everything, which is perfectly fair considering the circumstances, but this will not last for long.



ddude23 said:


> Yeah my sister is going to draw up papers with the ageeement we bad in place about the money. We have to talk about the retirement accounts though and other things. All she said was she won't ask for spousal support and home equity.
> 
> She didn't come home last night. Of course I shouldn't care, but I feel like ****. I want to get everything moving so I can get out of this hell. She is adamant that she wants mediation. I want to get everything signed. Should I just contact her and tell her what we're dividing and how we are proceeding so I can get papers signed? I don't want to wait all weekened for her to change her mind.


You don’t need to tell her anything. Try to be out of the house when she gets back and do not respond to any of her calls or texts. Ignore her. Like others have said, ghost her. Have the papers drawn up asap and serve her asap. When she is served, text her that if she signs the papers immediately this will be over quickly.


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## honcho

ddude23 said:


> If going through a mediator is a way for me to avoid paying spousal support, save money, and get this done quicker then I will do it. My sister is going to write up a divorce agreement anyway with the 50/50 income split with no spousal support.
> 
> She made a remark about how she knows this is her fault, so she won't take anything extra. Guess that's as close to an apology as I'll get.
> 
> I'm already feeling anxious about explaining this to family and mutual friends. I don't want to piss her off. They will all probably take her side, everyone loves her. I guess I will know who really supports me after this.
> 
> The other man is a real estate agent. Multiple kids and an ex wife. I unfortunately spent time stalking his social media.


Stay off social media for a while, it going to do you no favors. 

He has kids, your stbx is infertile this all just plays into her fantasy life of playing mom to them etc etc. 

Don't go out of your way to piss her off but don't be too concerned about it either. Her emotions right now are tied to the new guy so her moods are going to be much more dependent on that than what you do or dont do.


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## commonsenseisn't

At this point everything is so raw and new that your heart still loves her despite what your mind knows. Be alert for the moment when she will come back to give you a royal mind f**k by saying something that would indicate she came to her senses and would be willing to "work on us." 

The correct way to interpret this will be to assume she had a tiff with new guy and wants to use you to leverage her position with him, or at least use you as a safety net. Force yourself to remember she is a liar and knows what your heart wants to hear, thus she will jerk you around to achieve her end. Maybe she wasn't this way a year or two ago, but you are not dealing with your previous wife, you are dealing with the devil. 

Go dark on her. Ghost her. You don't want her back.


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## ddude23

She came back home today and I got out of the house for a couple of hours. Claiming she doesn't want anything else besides half of the money in our joint accounts. Also she has credit card debt but is saying she won't put it on me. She knows my sister is working on the agreement and has said she does not want to pay for a lawyer so let's just get it done as cleanly and as amicable as possible. 

I know I need to stop engaging with her but she starts every conversation. Even had the nerve to tell me "You know, I don't regret our time together at all" I responded with a slight laugh, and said please don't speak to me regarding anything but the divorce. The other guy doesn't have room for her at his house and she doesn't want to live with other family members. Sadly it looks like we might end up having to live together. I will do my best to stay away from her.


----------



## TX-SC

ddude23 said:


> She came back home today and I got out of the house for a couple of hours. Claiming she doesn't want anything else besides half of the money in our joint accounts. Also she has credit card debt but is saying she won't put it on me. She knows my sister is working on the agreement and has said she does not want to pay for a lawyer so let's just get it done as cleanly and as amicable as possible.
> 
> I know I need to stop engaging with her but she starts every conversation. Even had the nerve to tell me "You know, I don't regret our time together at all" I responded with a slight laugh, and said please don't speak to me regarding anything but the divorce. The other guy doesn't have room for her at his house and she doesn't want to live with other family members. Sadly it looks like we might end up having to live together. I will do my best to stay away from her.


If you can afford it, offer her $500/month for one year if she will get her own apartment and move out. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia

ddude23 said:


> I know I need to stop engaging with her but she starts every conversation. Even had the nerve to tell me "You know, I don't regret our time together at all" I responded with a slight laugh, and said please don't speak to me regarding anything but the divorce. The other guy doesn't have room for her at his house and she doesn't want to live with other family members. Sadly it looks like we might end up having to live together. I will do my best to stay away from her.


Good job. It is difficult, but when she starts trying to converse with you, just walk away. You don't even need to discuss the divorce. You've already covered it. The quicker you get this paperwork to her, the better. It looks like she's in a hurry now, so take full advantage of that. It won't last long.


----------



## *Deidre*

harrybrown said:


> have your sister handle the communication.
> 
> You go N/C.


This x 1000. NC will bring you clarity, and healing. It's not about ignoring or giving someone silent treatment, although you are going silent...it's about accepting what you can, moving on, and healing, and no contact really brings healing around quicker than if you continue talking with the abuser. (I think your wife is emotionally abusive, OP)


----------



## commonsenseisn't

ddude23 said:


> She knows my sister is working on the agreement and has said she does not want to pay for a lawyer so let's just get it done as cleanly and as amicable as possible.


This golden opportunity won't last forever. Get your sister to put the rush on the divorce while wife is in the fog. Be careful to not do anything that will snap her out of her fake bliss with the other guy. 

I would normally promote an exposure of the cheaters, but I think she is so far beyond redemption that your goal should be to ditch her before it's too late. You should be playing chess while she is playing checkers.


----------



## mickybill

ddude23 said:


> The other guy doesn't have room for her at his house and she doesn't want to live with other family members. Sadly it looks like we might end up having to live together. I will do my best to stay away from her.


He doesn't have a bedroom and a closet? She should go to her family, like it or not. If the OM "doesn;t have room for her"

Not a good thing, encourage her to Air BNB or rent a room somewhere until the OM finds room for her, if he ever does. Finance it by fronting her the money and repay it out of the settlement.

You do not want to know all about her escapades, overnights and laughing on the phone with the OM by living as her room mate. And you certainly do not want to move out of your house.


----------



## Cynthia

mickybill said:


> He doesn't have a bedroom and a closet? She should go to her family, like it or not. If the OM "doesn;t have room for her"
> 
> Not a good thing, encourage her to Air BNB or rent a room somewhere until the OM finds room for her, if he ever does. Finance it by fronting her the money and repay it out of the settlement.
> 
> You do not want to know all about her escapades, overnights and laughing on the phone with the OM by living as her room mate. And you certainly do not want to move out of your house.


This is a great idea. To avoid paying alimony, you could finance her move and pay three months rent "as a favor" for her moving out quickly. Sell it as giving her privacy and giving her a fresh start. Let her take any furniture she wants. Heck give her the bed and buy a new one that you have never shared with her. Likely she'll be thrilled.


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## ddude23

I did offer her that to pay her rent for an apartment. She said she doesn't want me to pay extra money just so she can live in an apartment. She rather stay at our house :|


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## Cynthia

ddude23 said:


> I did offer her that to pay her rent for an apartment. She said she doesn't want me to pay extra money just so she can live in an apartment. She rather stay at our house :|


Weird.

That's too bad. I don't want to encourage you to engage her in conversation. Maybe your sister could handle that part of the discussion. 

Do you think you'll want to keep your house or do you think you'll want to move somewhere else? If possible, I would encourage you to move to a new place where you can start fresh without any trace of her.


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## ddude23

Leave definitely, it's far too big for just the two of us. Not to mention all the memories.


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## Marc878

ddude23 said:


> She came back home today and I got out of the house for a couple of hours. Claiming she doesn't want anything else besides half of the money in our joint accounts. Also she has credit card debt but is saying she won't put it on me. She knows my sister is working on the agreement and has said she does not want to pay for a lawyer so let's just get it done as cleanly and as amicable as possible.
> 
> * I know I need to stop engaging with her but she starts every conversation*. Even had the nerve to tell me "You know, I don't regret our time together at all" I responded with a slight laugh, and said please don't speak to me regarding anything but the divorce. The other guy doesn't have room for her at his house and she doesn't want to live with other family members. Sadly it looks like we might end up having to live together. I will do my best to stay away from her.


You haven't got there yet but any engagement just keeps you where you are. The affair trumps everything and you'll get nowhere. It's not written anywhere that you have to speak to her. You just give her control over you and the situation. Hence, her stupid comment. 

Nothing says moving on better than silence.


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## curious234

telling her workplace (Posom's too) you can use as a bargaining chip if she come with more demand during mediation (do not mention it to her now). Is she on alcohol mare than she usually is?


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## TX-SC

ddude23 said:


> I did offer her that to pay her rent for an apartment. She said she doesn't want me to pay extra money just so she can live in an apartment. She rather stay at our house :|


Push the issue. It will be absolute hell living in the same house, knowing she is banging another guy. I couldn't live that way. Just tell her she needs to move and you'll help pay for it for a set number of months. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

ddude23 said:


> She came back home today and I got out of the house for a couple of hours. Claiming she doesn't want anything else besides half of the money in our joint accounts. Also she has credit card debt but is saying she won't put it on me. She knows my sister is working on the agreement and has said she does not want to pay for a lawyer so let's just get it done as cleanly and as amicable as possible.
> 
> I know I need to stop engaging with her but she starts every conversation. Even had the nerve to tell me "You know, I don't regret our time together at all" I responded with a slight laugh, and said please don't speak to me regarding anything but the divorce. The other guy doesn't have room for her at his house and she doesn't want to live with other family members. Sadly it looks like we might end up having to live together. I will do my best to stay away from her.


Okay Ddude, here comes the 2x4. I got a few and they were well deserved. I will stay out of DI mode as I see that apparently did not register. Why do you want here in your house where she can belittle and torture you as she did yesterday? You have to get away from the toxicity that is your stbxw. Boo Hoo. POSOM has no room at the inn. Cry me Goddamn river on that one! 

Why do you let her walk all over you? Why can you not set a boundary with her she is not to cross and avoid contact? You will not and cannot move forward as you need to with her in your presence. She is like having a colony of ants in your house. 

She is doing all she can to mess with you psychologically. Why can you not see this? I feel for you as if you do not grow a pair and stand firm she will walk all over you as she is now, and very likely any new relationship you enter you will be taken advantage of.

I say this from my heart sir. Please realize you are valuable. You are a good man. You loved her unconditionally even though you knew she was unable to conceive. Look what she has done for you. 

From you posts you seem to avoid any conflict at all. Not good. Life is all about conflict, lots of it. One must learn to deal with it and not shy away. Please find you a good IC, preferably male, and work on you. I fear this cycle will repeat itself if you do not.
Also, not all women are a screwed up and heartless as you stbxw. Something intuitive tells me you knew she was a piece of work for a while, you likely did not desire to deal with it.

Again, be strong. Phillippians 4:13" I can do all through He who strengthens me." Strength! Be strong. Be a rock.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

ddude23 said:


> I did offer her that to pay her rent for an apartment. She said she doesn't want me to pay extra money just so she can live in an apartment. She rather stay at our house :|


How did I miss this post ? Ahhhh!!!! Please get a grip and get away from her. Why must you subject yourself to her callousness and cruelty? Do you want to heal and move on or suffer?:surprise:


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## ddude23

The fact that she seems so happy saddens me so much. So she gets to stay here because she won't leave, go out and have fun with her boyfriend, and gets to play mom to his kids. 

She already wants mutual friends to meet him. One of them texted me today and asked what happened between us, she said we grew apart. I told them the real story, and they were sympathetic. They invited me out to dinner tonight with a group of people. Although I'm devastated I'm looking forward to it.


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## EleGirl

ddude23 said:


> I did offer her that to pay her rent for an apartment. She said she doesn't want me to pay extra money just so she can live in an apartment. She rather stay at our house :|


So tell her that you want to pay her rent for 2 or 3 months because you do not want to watch your wife having an affair. Tell her that it's unacceptable to you, so YOU want her to move.


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## MattMatt

ddude23 said:


> I did offer her that to pay her rent for an apartment. She said she doesn't want me to pay extra money just so she can live in an apartment. She rather stay at our house :|


Just say: "I'd be delighted to spend extra money on you!"


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## jsmart

I'm really sorry you're going through this. I just read the complete thread. I knew from your opening post that it was a sexual PA. Woman don't get to the confused state until they've already done the deed. 

As for the sudden confession, my guess is that they were busted and she was preempting getting exposed by doing her own trickle truthed mini exposure. Have you confirmed that he's divorced? Sounds like she's lying about his marital status to protect him from you exposing. 

If this guy is her new soulmate, she would go be with him. She doesn't need any room, she'd sleep in his bed. You need to dig and get OM's info. He may just be separated with the hope of getting back with his wife. Exposing to her would put the kibosh on that. 

Have your wife served at work. It ALWAYS does a number on WWs. Even when they're the ones wanting to leave. Seen it with my own eyes at 2 different jobs. Both WWs were wanting to leave their BHs. The surprise serving at work ROCKED their world. Talk about hysterical crying. In both cases the mgr sent these devastated woman home to gather themselves. 

Also expose to her family and friends before she rewrites the history and goes with the typical "controlling or abusive" meme that's so commonly thrown around.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Please go out and spend time with your friends. I hope they hit you with a few 2x4s.


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## mickybill

ddude23 said:


> I did offer her that to pay her rent for an apartment. She said she doesn't want me to pay extra money just so she can live in an apartment. She rather stay at our house :|


Seriously WTF is wrong with her.
The money is well worth it and you will repay yourself from the settlement. It's not a gift, it;s an investment in your sanity.
If you agree to let her stay at the house, eventually she will want to bring the OM "home", after all
it's her house too. With her logic she shouldn't have to hide.


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## Hopeful Cynic

ddude23 said:


> If going through a mediator is a way for me to avoid paying spousal support, save money, and get this done quicker then I will do it. My sister is going to write up a divorce agreement anyway with the 50/50 income split with no spousal support.
> 
> She made a remark about how she knows this is her fault, so she won't take anything extra. Guess that's as close to an apology as I'll get.


I'm not following how giving her half your income isn't spousal support?? Surely spousal support would work out to be less than half your income? How long would you be giving her half your income for? This doesn't sound like a good agreement at all to me!


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## straightshooter

mickybill said:


> Seriously WTF is wrong with her.
> The money is well worth it and you will repay yourself from the settlement. It's not a gift, it;s an investment in your sanity.
> If you agree to let her stay at the house, eventually she will want to bring the OM "home", after all
> it's her house too. With her logic she shouldn't have to hide.


Dude,

You need to talk to your sister again and find out if there is anything legally or financially you can do to get her the **** out of that house. She does not make much money from what I see here, so what happens if you tell her you are going to court to give her NOTHING and that she needs to hire an attorney of her own. Even if she has to pay for a consultation it may make her rethink this crap she is pulling.

The reason I copied to above is because since she believes she can do whatever she wants to and still come and go as she pleases, the above is not beyond the realm of possible. She is already while still married wanting to introduce here boyfriend to friends. ?? Do n ot be astounded if she does bring him into the house. And speaking of mutual friends. You need to make it clear to them that you do not want any conversation regarding her. If they were your friends they would want no part of her or her boyfriend. Ando not be surprised if some of these girlfriends actually knew, and if their husbands are your friends they would be telling their wives don't dare bring her around.

You need to start playing some big time hardball my friend or you are going to be in for more hurt than you even want to think about. Right now you are still so shocked, understandably so, but once your nerves calm down how long do you want to live watching her go out to bang her boyfriend and come home and then you have to hide in the home you pay for to avoid her. You are not going to recover if you have to deal with that for too long.

And lastly, if OM has no room for her, do not be so sure he is actukllay cleanly divorced. If he is totally divorced he is allowed to date and move her into his bedroom with no consequences. There may be more to this than you have discovered.

Dude, you are going to have to spend some money to do something to make it uncomfortable for her tyo continue to abuse you. And that starts with stopping all dialogue with her and telling her to get the **** out of your sight. She is doing this because you are engaging her. You can't do anything illegal but you do not have to make it comfortable for her. 

I know you are being told to make nice by some so she will sign. Seems like she intends on tormenting you for every minute she can. Is money more important than your mental well being. You have to answer that question.


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## ddude23

The friends want to do something tomorrow. They are angry at the soon to be ex wife, damn feels weird saying that. I acted out of impulse and downloaded tinder. I have never done something like this before. She's actually pretty and wants to hook up. Going to her place to hook up and enjoy myself. Although I may have to get drunk to do so and block the oncoming emotions. Wish me luck.


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## TX-SC

ddude23 said:


> The friends want to do something tomorrow. They are angry at the soon to be ex wife, damn feels weird saying that. I acted out of impulse and downloaded tinder. I have never done something like this before. She's actually pretty and wants to hook up. Going to her place to hook up and enjoy myself. Although I may have to get drunk to do so and block the oncoming emotions. Wish me luck.


Have fun! No alcohol. The last thing you need is whiskey **** right now. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## jsmart

Totally concur with @straightshooter. We've seen it so often. The BHs that try to be nice, considerate, and fair are completely taken advantage of. It's like the WW gets some sort of high or a rush from emotionally destroying the BH. 

I'm going to reiterate once again that you need to verify independently what the status of the OM is. This site has countless threads where the WW lies about the OM being single or divorced and it turns out that he's married. These WWs put their OM's needs, including protecting his marriage and family ahead of her own marriage and family.

Some OMs lie about being divorced but are in fact only separated and are working to restore their marriage. Of course he doesn't say that to his AP. He'll future fake her and make stories about letting his wife down easy because of the kids. Anything to keep the porn level sex that your wife is giving him. And you better believe it, WW consistently get totally WANTON for their OM. Performing acts with the OM that their husband was turned down for years on.

So it time to put on the big boy pants and realize that you have to fight. Not necessarily to save this marriage but to exit it with dignity. You may think it's not important now but you will later look back on your weakness and be disgusted. You will relive it over and over wanting a do over to come out with your head held high. 



I


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## ddude23

He is divorced. Background'd checked the hell out of him. I found his ex wife on Facebook, confirmed. My wife is going to get the papers tomorrow, it will be at her work hopefully. Supposed to meet the girl in 30 minutes. Should of had her meet here but did not want anything my wife could use against me. **** I hope I don't mess this up. Haven't been with another girl in 14 years. No alcohol. I can't believe my wife has treated me like this. This is sadly relatively common as I have heard some of the horror stories on here.


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## Satya

You should make sure that being represented by your sister does not create a conflict of interest.


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## curious234

what a turn around. You are strong mentally. Looks like you have lot of friends contrary to what you say. So at least a positive from this is try to be more social. The friends will spread the truth around (you can do too)


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## GusPolinski

ddude23 said:


> He is divorced. Background'd checked the hell out of him. I found his ex wife on Facebook, confirmed. My wife is going to get the papers tomorrow, it will be at her work hopefully. Supposed to meet the girl in 30 minutes. Should of had her meet here but did not want anything my wife could use against me. **** I hope I don't mess this up. Haven't been with another girl in 14 years. No alcohol. I can't believe my wife has treated me like this. This is sadly relatively common as I have heard some of the horror stories on here.


Your wife is going to be served w/ divorce papers on a Sunday?


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## TaDor

I had my wife served at work too, the home was an option - but it was more reliable to have it done at work since I knew her work schedule, nothing more. The POSOM was there of course - and threatened me.

How fast can your state handle the divorce? There is usually a 2~4 week wait to go before a judge to sign final orders. For example, Arkansas = 540 days for legal processing. An uncontested can move quickly, like 7~60 days if both of you are in agreement - AND you need to explain to a judge WHY you want to divorce today, rather than 2~6 months for typical divorce filings. So to expedite the divorce, both YOU and YOUR wife goes before the judge. She tells the judge "I am having sex with my new boyfriend. I've been doing it for 6 months behind ddude23's back" - that will HELP a whole lot.

The 5 Best And Worst States For Getting A Divorce | The Huffington Post

So... once the divorce *IS* done... The house is yours. You can LEGALLY kick her out and start selling the house. Where she lives after that - is none of your concern.


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## Archangel2

@ddude23-By way of inspiration and education, I suggest you look at the thread by @bff . His situation was parallel to yours. His wife was infertile, got into a relationship with a mutual friend, and after many trials and tribulations, he finally divorced her. Today, he has remarried and now has a son! After allowing some time to heal, I hope you have the same outcomes.


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## sokillme

jsmart said:


> Totally concur with @straightshooter. We've seen it so often. The BHs that try to be nice, considerate, and fair are completely taken advantage of. It's like the WW gets some sort of high or a rush from emotionally destroying the BH.
> 
> I'm going to reiterate once again that you need to verify independently what the status of the OM is. This site has countless threads where the WW lies about the OM being single or divorced and it turns out that he's married. These WWs put their OM's needs, including protecting his marriage and family ahead of her own marriage and family.
> 
> Some OMs lie about being divorced but are in fact only separated and are working to restore their marriage. Of course he doesn't say that to his AP. He'll future fake her and make stories about letting his wife down easy because of the kids. Anything to keep the porn level sex that your wife is giving him. And you better believe it, WW consistently get totally WANTON for their OM. Performing acts with the OM that their husband was turned down for years on.
> 
> So it time to put on the big boy pants and realize that you have to fight. Not necessarily to save this marriage but to exit it with dignity. You may think it's not important now but you will later look back on your weakness and be disgusted. You will relive it over and over wanting a do over to come out with your head held high.
> 
> 
> 
> I


I don't get the point why try to shock her out of the this? Use it her fog against her. Get the best deal because she is in the fog. The type person she is is worth absolutely nothing. If she should somehow come out of the fog then she is going to want more money and more support, she may even want to fall back on him. There is absolutely no benefit to anything but getting her out of his life forever. That is it, that is the play and she seems open too it. Right now he has the chance that he can get out with the least amount of financial support possible. Now it the time to play it cool and get out as safely as possible. Not worry about who the AP is. OP don't do anything that will endanger your deal, there is no value in this women so don't even try to fight for her. Save your cash.


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## notmyrealname4

Well, if you can plan to have sex with someone on Tinder so quickly; then you didn't love your wife much either.


I hope the following helps. Your wife may be having an affair because her infertility has caused her to feel less than a woman.

The way to deal with that, would be to seek counseling, or work on those feelings in some productive manner.

She choose the sexual attention of another man to make her feel desired and feminine again.

Perhaps being a stepmother to his children will help her. But probably not. She probably isn't willing to face how empty she feels over being personally childless.

So, it's likely this wasn't about you and how desirable you are.


@*Deidre* I agree with your outlook on exposing to everyone about the affair. I think it is almost completely about revenge.


----------



## sokillme

notmyrealname4 said:


> Well, if you can plan to have sex with someone on Tinder so quickly; then you didn't love your wife much either.


Not that it is a good idea but people respond to trauma differently. This certainly isn't the same thing. One broke the agreement, the other no longer has an agreement to brake. I do think it is a bad idea though. I don't think he will feel better afterwords.


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## commonsenseisn't

How is it that you can get her served papers on a Sunday? And also, how are you feeling up to boinking a random stranger when your betrayal is so fresh? Something seems off here. 

You would be wise to take it slow and careful in relations with the opposite sex for a while. It took me a long time before I was capable of being a good date after my divorce.


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## ddude23

This was more of a revenge thing. As petty as it sounds I feel even worse now. Guess I deserve it even though we had a good time. My wife texted saying "Stay safe tonight" didn't even tell her where I was going. All I wanted to do was cry. Does she even care or is she doing that to act like she does? I took someone's advice here of hooking up with someone I had fun but it wasn't worth it. 

And yes i did/do love my wife very much. All I thought about was her this whole time. All I think about is her even if I sound pathetic. I don't have much true friends, more like acquaintances. No matter how much she's hurt me I still care about her. 

I think I am co-dependent. We did every single thing together. She threw me away like garbage. I hope I stop caring about her like this one day. 

We are going to do mediation, I doubt she will change the terms. She just wants out of the marriage as fast as she can I guess. 

Feel like I cheated on my wife. I need more self respect so I can stop feeling like a low piece of ****. I even want to tell her just so this guilt can stop. 

Sorry I didn't mean tommorrow that she's getting served. As you can see I'm not a mentally stable person. My sister has to do everything cause my wife won't file and i can't do anything right. Probably why she is leaving me in the first place. I'm a co dependent piece of ****. 

I don't know much about anything. My wife handled all the finances. God just let her break free from me.


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## Marc878

Quit playing the victim and start standing on your own two feet.

Read up 
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrB..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=teFiD7IZXHgWmqdWLXxrlLT0OmE-


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## Marc878

ddude23 said:


> This was more of a revenge thing. As petty as it sounds I feel even worse now. Guess I deserve it even though we had a good time. My wife texted saying "Stay safe tonight" didn't even tell her where I was going. All I wanted to do was cry. Does she even care or is she doing that to act like she does? I took someone's advice here of hooking up with someone I had fun but it wasn't worth it.
> 
> *And yes i did/do love my wife very much. All I thought about was her this whole time. All I think about is her even if I sound pathetic. I don't have much true friends, more like acquaintances. No matter how much she's hurt me I still care about her. *
> 
> You're in love with who you've made her to be in your mind. That's not who she is. Better wake up and take her off the pedestal you've put her on.
> 
> I think I am co-dependent. We did every single thing together. She threw me away like garbage. I hope I stop caring about her like this one day.
> 
> Yep, you sound very codependent. Start getting a life of your own. You can do this but you will need to get up and put the time and effort into it. A whole better life awaits you and you are the only one holding yourself back.
> 
> We are going to do mediation, I doubt she will change the terms. She just wants out of the marriage as fast as she can I guess.
> 
> Feel like I cheated on my wife. I need more self respect so I can stop feeling like a low piece of ****. I even want to tell her just so this guilt can stop.
> 
> Sorry I didn't mean tommorrow that she's getting served. As you can see I'm not a mentally stable person. My sister has to do everything cause my wife won't file and i can't do anything right. Probably why she is leaving me in the first place. I'm a co dependent piece of ****.
> 
> I don't know much about anything. My wife handled all the finances. God just let her break free from me.


Learn to be on your own. There are more benefits than you think right now. You just can't see it. Hard 180 is your best friend.

She'll want to be friends. DON'T! Friends are honest, trustworthy and loyal. She's not friend material.


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## EleGirl

ddude23 said:


> He is divorced. Background'd checked the hell out of him. I found his ex wife on Facebook, confirmed. My wife is going to get the papers tomorrow, it will be at her work hopefully. Supposed to meet the girl in 30 minutes. Should of had her meet here but did not want anything my wife could use against me. **** I hope I don't mess this up. Haven't been with another girl in 14 years. No alcohol. I can't believe my wife has treated me like this. This is sadly relatively common as I have heard some of the horror stories on here.


Wow, bringing a woman who you pick up on line to your home is about stupid as it gets. 

Do you realize that this is very risky behavior. Not really any different than picking up chick for sex on Craig’s list.


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## EleGirl

ddude23 said:


> This was more of a revenge thing. As petty as it sounds I feel even worse now. Guess I deserve it even though we had a good time. My wife texted saying "Stay safe tonight" didn't even tell her where I was going. All I wanted to do was cry. Does she even care or is she doing that to act like she does? I took someone's advice here of hooking up with someone I had fun but it wasn't worth it.
> 
> And yes i did/do love my wife very much. All I thought about was her this whole time. All I think about is her even if I sound pathetic. I don't have much true friends, more like acquaintances. No matter how much she's hurt me I still care about her.
> 
> I think I am co-dependent. We did every single thing together. She threw me away like garbage. I hope I stop caring about her like this one day.
> 
> We are going to do mediation, I doubt she will change the terms. She just wants out of the marriage as fast as she can I guess.
> 
> Feel like I cheated on my wife. I need more self respect so I can stop feeling like a low piece of ****. I even want to tell her just so this guilt can stop.
> 
> Sorry I didn't mean tommorrow that she's getting served. As you can see I'm not a mentally stable person. My sister has to do everything cause my wife won't file and i can't do anything right. Probably why she is leaving me in the first place. I'm a co dependent piece of ****.
> 
> I don't know much about anything. My wife handled all the finances. God just let her break free from me.


How much did you have to drink before you wrote this?


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## sokillme

Detach man. Detach. It will get better. If you don't have friends now it the time to go out and make some new friends. You are not going to be able to fix this. It's over. You have to pick yourself up and move on. 

Stop feeling guilty, your wife broke the contract so it's null and void. You didn't cheat because there is not contract anymore requiring you to be faithful. The reason most people say not to do what you did is because when you do you end up exactly how you feel. You can't force a shallow hookup to replace long term love. Your not your defective wife. The best thing you can get out of this is that you know now they you are still attractive enough for someone to want to have sex with you. That's something you can use for later. 

Right now you need a plan, First thing is to join a gym, exercise gives you tangible goals and everyday successes to feel good about, it also releases your bodies natural endorphins which help with depression. The residual payoff is you will start to become more attractive to women as you get in shape. Plus discipline is good for you right now. You need to hold yourself accountable so you don't fall apart. 

Next start to immerse yourself in your hobbies or get some hobbies preferably ones where you can meet people and make friends. One of your big mistakes here was to put all of your eggs in your wife's basket so to speak. Never just let one person or one thing be responsible for all of your joy. You need to be a well rounded person so that is one of these things or people goes away you can still find joy in others. Like I said in a different post. Everything in life ends. This is why we much keep growing so that there is always new stuff for us to have interest in. You never want to wake up again an find all of the things that you live for are gone.  

Finally take pride in the fact that you can do it. You were a good faithful husband, even when you found out you wouldn't be able to have your dream of having a kid. That was a blow to you too and you still handled that honorably. You will make another higher quality woman a fine husband. Seriously from the things your wife has done, some stranger at the bus stop would probably give you a better chance of having a higher quality. The way she has treated you say so much more about her then you. Anyway you can still have the dream of a long marriage and even kids now. You are still very young, you don't have to settle.

It's OK to be sad and morn for a little while longer. You may even want to tell your boss so he know you might not be all with it for a month or so. But then remember, we're men, we fight wars, YOU are capable of being stronger then you think. As a man there will be a time where you will need to kill your sorrow over this and accept it, and get up and start building your life again. We need to have a mission a purpose. Work on your career, make as much money and try to have as much success as possible. Learn finances and get that in check. Women respect men who take charge and are in control. You set up a bad dynamic by not handling the finances at all. You should at least have an idea. Now you need to get an idea so you know what's going on. Get in the best shape of your life. Make it your mission to prove your ex made a mistake, even if you never talk to her again. Her loss is your gain.

Eventually you will wake up one day and just feel pity for your ex. I can tell you as a observer that i pity her. How bottomless must you be to treat someone you spent 10 years building a relationship with in such a poor manner. Who can respect a person like this. Just watch, someone who can behave this way doesn't end up having a great life. 

You my friend will, I promise.


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## EleGirl

She texted you? Do not reply to any of her texts. Ignore her. That's what the 180 is about.

And whatever you do, do not tell her that you went out and had sex with some random stranger that you met online. Even though she is cheating, it's going to really piss her off and her attitude about not wanting things like alimony will change on a dime.


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## ddude23

Yes it was very stupid and something I will never do again. We mostly talked so it was nice having someone just to talk to. Never had much friends, most of those mutual friends are known because of my wife. So they will probably accept her guy eventually. I don't deal with trauma well. I do and say stupid things. My wife would complain about how I would handle certain situations and she wouldn't be wrong. 

I just wanted to step out of my comfort zone. She will never want me back. It's over. 

The 180 is too challenging for me. Maybe I will do that. Maybe it's my personality that she wasn't attracted too. Just so many unanswered questions.


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## Marc878

ddude23 said:


> Yes it was very stupid and something I will never do again. We mostly talked so it was nice having someone just to talk to. Never had much friends, most of those mutual friends are known because of my wife. So they will probably accept her guy eventually. I don't deal with trauma well. I do and say stupid things. My wife would complain about how I would handle certain situations and she wouldn't be wrong.
> 
> I just wanted to step out of my comfort zone. She will never want me back. It's over.
> 
> *The 180 is too challenging for me.* Maybe I will do that. Maybe it's my personality that she wasn't attracted too. Just so many unanswered questions.


Being a puppet on your wayward wifes string is not the place you want to be. Wake up!!!


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## JohnA

What you did (and what you do in the future) says who you are. Up until you went onto tinder you where numb and in shock. Everyone here understands that. We are here to help you though this phase, to become a better person. 

So are you proud of yourself? Is this who you want to be?


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## EleGirl

ddude23 said:


> Yes it was very stupid and something I will never do again. We mostly talked so it was nice having someone just to talk to.


The reason you feel bad after doing this is that you are not ready to date. 

And, let's fact it, you had no idea what you were really walking into.

But it worked out ok. So don't spend a lot of time beating yourself up over this.



ddude23 said:


> Never had much friends, most of those mutual friends are known because of my wife. So they will probably accept her guy eventually. I don't deal with trauma well. I do and say stupid things. My wife would complain about how I would handle certain situations and she wouldn't be wrong.


Well, I gave you an idea of how to start building friends... We are what we do | Meetup It's centered about finding people to do things with that you enjoy. That's a good, healthy way to meet people.



ddude23 said:


> I just wanted to step out of my comfort zone. She will never want me back. It's over.


And you need to learn to accept this and move on with your life.



ddude23 said:


> The 180 is too challenging for me. Maybe I will do that. Maybe it's my personality that she wasn't attracted too. Just so many unanswered questions.


Yea, the 180 is a challenge. Just remember that the basic rule is to not talk to her. Just come up with a brief statement and use it every time she tries to talk to you.... "Not now." and walk away. Do not answer her text messages. Just ignore her.


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## Malaise

When you respond to her regarding anything but the divorce you are making her relevant. She isn't anymore.

She's someone you used to know.


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## Chaparral

Yes you are acting wimpy. Do you think the Posom acts wimpy and needy around your wife? That's funny. What's hilarious is he told her there was no room in the inn. Why should he but the cow when the milk is free? You think you're a mess? Your wife has been played like the fool she is. Real estate agent with no room for his mistress? I know this is a cliche but "oh my God."

You didn't buy the MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER book from amazon did you. Don't even think of going out with a woman until you do. Weakness in a man is like big reppelent to a mosquito. A woman can't get away from weakness fast enough.


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## lucy999

I am not a huge fan of mediation. I seen lots of failures with it. However, I think she is suggesting mediation for her. So she won't have to get a lawyer. Sure, mediation is costly, but lawyers would be more expensive. And guess what? You have your sister as your lawyer. So, your wife is probably thinking that you will get a free ride whereas she will have to pay big money for representation. If it were me, I would go straight to divorce. I feel that in your case, mediation would just be a waste of time and money.


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## drifting on

If your wife handled the finances I would have you and your sister begin looking over ALL your financial accounts. I would not put it past your wife to have been siphoning off money to a secret account she has. If you discover any money to be missing have your sister hire a forensic finance person to investigate. If she did siphon money, and you find the account, and you are not listed on the account, you can have her charged with theft. Especially if the account was opened within the last year and you have no knowledge of said account. 

Divorce goes through lawyers, even if you have to hire the biggest idiot in your county to represent her. Think about that, recommend a **** lawyer for her to use!!!


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## drifting on

Forgot to add this, have your sister name the top three divorce lawyers near you. Go to each one and pay their retainer fee. This way she is guaranteed a **** lawyer!!


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## drifting on

And about the comment about your time together, your reply should have been, I am sorry, I thought I had married a truthful and loyal woman. I didn't. However I now have that chance!!!


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## *Deidre*

notmyrealname4 said:


> Well, if you can plan to have sex with someone on Tinder so quickly; then you didn't love your wife much either.
> 
> 
> I hope the following helps. Your wife may be having an affair because her infertility has caused her to feel less than a woman.
> 
> The way to deal with that, would be to seek counseling, or work on those feelings in some productive manner.
> 
> She choose the sexual attention of another man to make her feel desired and feminine again.
> 
> Perhaps being a stepmother to his children will help her. But probably not. She probably isn't willing to face how empty she feels over being personally childless.
> 
> So, it's likely this wasn't about you and how desirable you are.
> 
> 
> @*Deidre* I agree with your outlook on exposing to everyone about the affair. I think it is almost completely about revenge.


Yea, I mean obviously it would make sense to share it with kids, your parents, siblings, etc. But, to call up the OM/OW's employer? That's about revenge, imo, based on emotions running high. It's about wanting to ruin someone's life because they've ruined yours. At the end of the day, it doesn't change the hurt the person caused you. I think that many people believe it will pull the person out of the affair fog, but suppose it doesn't? Or suppose the person ends the affair and comes running back to you, and you'll always wonder if the person came back to you for you, or came back to you for the lifestyle of which you offer them? I mean, you could be the best spouse in the world but if your spouse is cheating, clearly they have made a choice that didn't involve you. They decided to go outside of the marriage to find ''happiness,'' of which you weren't a part of. It's not like a teenager ''going through a phase,'' this is an adult woman who made a choice, and the choice was to give her time and attention to another guy.

This is why I'm against reconciliation in general, but I realize everyone is different. But, for me, once trust is broken, it's forever broken. I don't want someone's scraps, or to be someone's consolation prize when they realize that their affair isn't going to work out. I will take my vows seriously when I make them, and I expect the same from my fiance.

Like I said though, everyone is different, this is just my opinion alone...I just hate to see people waste their lives on people who treat them like crap.


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## CantBelieveThis

Yea that all good but in reality people are flawd and let others down in our promises....say you get married at 25 and live to 85, thats 60 years together, highly unlikely that your spouse wont screw up or let you down in some big way tbh...is possible but.....marriage is very hard work, i mean think about it, to live with someone else and get along for most of your life takes way more effort than newlyweds ever imagine...
Im a BH that has reconciled but i admit is the hardest thing ever..so far, is a tragedy in life, there are many tragedies people face in life, being betrayed is one of them....then again not all CS deserve a chance


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## *Deidre*

CantBelieveThis said:


> Yea that all good but in reality people are flawd and let others down in our promises....say you get married at 25 and live to 85, thats 60 years together, highly unlikely that your spouse wont screw up or let you down in some big way tbh...is possible but.....marriage is very hard work, i mean think about it, to live with someone else and get along for most of your life takes way more effort than newlyweds ever imagine...
> Im a BH that has reconciled but i admit is the hardest thing ever..so far, is a tragedy in life, there are many tragedies people face in life, being betrayed is one of them....then again not all CS deserve a chance


That's so true, but cheating is my fiance's and my ''deal breaker.'' Everyone is flawed, but sleeping with other people is a ''flaw'' I'm not willing to accept in my future marriage.


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## drifting on

*Deidre* said:


> Yea, I mean obviously it would make sense to share it with kids, your parents, siblings, etc. But, to call up the OM/OW's employer? That's about revenge, imo, based on emotions running high. It's about wanting to ruin someone's life because they've ruined yours. At the end of the day, it doesn't change the hurt the person caused you. I think that many people believe it will pull the person out of the affair fog, but suppose it doesn't? Or suppose the person ends the affair and comes running back to you, and you'll always wonder if the person came back to you for you, or came back to you for the lifestyle of which you offer them? I mean, you could be the best spouse in the world but if your spouse is cheating, clearly they have made a choice that didn't involve you. They decided to go outside of the marriage to find ''happiness,'' of which you weren't a part of. It's not like a teenager ''going through a phase,'' this is an adult woman who made a choice, and the choice was to give her time and attention to another guy.
> 
> This is why I'm against reconciliation in general, but I realize everyone is different. But, for me, once trust is broken, it's forever broken. I don't want someone's scraps, or to be someone's consolation prize when they realize that their affair isn't going to work out. I will take my vows seriously when I make them, and I expect the same from my fiance.
> 
> Like I said though, everyone is different, this is just my opinion alone...I just hate to see people waste their lives on people who treat them like crap.




I have said what you have said above also, but once it happens to you there is so much to consider. I'm not saying that if you are in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship infidelity doesn't hurt, but you can split up and never see that person again. In marriage you may still have to deal with that person for as long as a divorce takes. You may have to co-parent, pay money, fight tooth and nail for what is yours. In other words you may still have to deal with this person for years. That's not a reason to stay together, but rather gives more thought to what you once thought you would do. While I hope you never have to go through infidelity, if it happens to you I can tell you it will mess with the beliefs you once had. 

Infidelity was a deal breaker for me, thought that my entire life, until it happened. What was best for me, was reconciliation, however difficult it has been. I don't feel weak to have reconciled, I have become a much better person overall. I believe people are capable of change, just as they are capable to change to have an affair. What the wayward spouse does after they cheated is telling of who they are. Just as they were capable to have an affair they are capable to become better people. It's not in my nature to condemn a person for a series of bad decisions that leads to infidelity. Instead, I wait to see their response to what they have done. 

I deal with people most would run from, say to rid them from society, but reality is they made a bad decision. A bad decision can have consequences that may last a lifetime, or for a number of years, but how they respond to the bad decision should also be noted and considered. If you kill someone you may get parole, does that mean they will kill again? Are you going to tell me a leopard can't change their spots? Or once a killer always a killer? That person will have to live with their bad decision for life, a much harsher sentence then I could ever provide.


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## TX-SC

Your marriage is over and your "wife" is banging her BF every night and you are worried about feeling bad over a ONS you had AFTER the marriage was over? You are way too dependant on your ex. You simply have to stop thinking of yourself as married. The marriage is waaaay over. There will never be R and all that's left is for you to accept it. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## straightshooter

TX-SC said:


> Your marriage is over and your "wife" is banging her BF every night and you are worried about feeling bad over a ONS you had AFTER the marriage was over? You are way too dependant on your ex. You simply have to stop thinking of yourself as married. The marriage is waaaay over. There will never be R and all that's left is for you to accept it.
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


Exactly!! Dude, this is crap about you not being ready to date Maybe not in a serious relationship but as TX said your wife is getting laid every night and then parading into your home and somenhere think you should be sitting home pounding your pud and eating your heart out. Nonsense. Stay on Tinder and you are not deceiving anyone. If there was any thought of R maybe different

And for heavens sake don't announce to her what you are doing. She kept you clueless for four months. You owe her nothing. I hope to hell you get that!

If you can find his ex wife tell her !!! You have no idea if he is still trying to get back with her and what the **** is wrong with a little revenge after what she has done to you ???

This taking the. "High road " is horse ****! If she was willing to
Move out and show you some respect that would be different .

See a doctor for some meds if necessary but you need to start fighting back and stop the reminiscing . It's not helping you and not good for
You


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## ddude23

I told my sister I really appreciate her help but she has other stuff to do and business to attend to. Has her own career and her own family. I'd like to get this completely done by myself now. We are going through mediation, she told me although the mediator is a neutral third party she thinks my wife will manipulate and guilt trip me. I won't allow myself to be manipulated by her anymore. 

I just want to get out of this mess and if I save money in the process then so be it. If I won't have to pay her spousal support and don't have a connection to her afterwards then yeah. I don't know why I felt so guilty. Was a mess last night and had too much to drink. She surely wouldn't care anyway, she's checked out. Only problem with this is me having to sit with her through this acting all friendly after what she's done and is doing. 

Reasoning for her not living with the boyfriend because "he has a weird custody agreement with his ex so she can't live with him" Don't even know what that means. I am going to do the 180 as hard as it is. Many mentioned that the kids were a big draw for her, you're right. She was face timing his daughter today. Unbelievable. Gave up having kids for this woman that I don't even recognize. 

So here we are. Going through mediation. No chance of reconciliation, she is completely in love with him and his family. While she leaves me in the dust to go be with her new family. I will never EVER forgive or respect her again. She doesn't deserve to be a mother.


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## giddiot

This sure moving fast, your already in mediation and it's Sunday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## curious234

So here we are. Going through mediation. No chance of reconciliation, she is completely in love with him and his family. While she leaves me in the dust to go be with her new family. I will never EVER forgive or respect her again. She doesn't deserve to be a mother.

Dude Loser thinking. No point in going there. It only sap your energy. If she can do such a clean break so can you. At least she is not interested in your money unlike most others. However keep informing their respective employers as a bargaining chip if suddenly she change her mind about finances. Making a false friendly face does not cost anything and like one said before doing a pay back later (if you want) with a cold mind is the best.


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## 3putt

ddude23 said:


> Reasoning for her not living with the boyfriend because "he has a weird custody agreement with his ex so she can't live with him" Don't even know what that means.


Wouldn't surprise me a bit if it's nothing more than him just wanting the milk and not the cow.


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## drifting on

3putt said:


> Wouldn't surprise me a bit if it's nothing more than him just wanting the milk and not the cow.





^^^^^this!!!


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## ddude23

Were not in mediation yet. I meant as in that's what we've agreed too by talking. Nothing has been signed at all. All we have done so far is separate the finances and have a discussion about what we are doing. Me exposing her to others and workplaces just allows me to stay in this drama filled situation and my sister advised against it. I also purchased a VAR. If she will still be living here I will protect myself.


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## Drumstick

Her boyfriend might have a "morality clause" in the divorce agreement, meaning he cannot bring anyone around his children, or have someone live with him in the same house as his children, unless they are getting married. Pretty standard in divorce agreements with young children; you don't want your ex carting randoms into and out of your childrens' lives.

I strongly recommend you at least let your sister represent you throughout mediation. Yea, she might be busy, but she loves you, and will lookout for your interests. It's still not going to cost you anything, except maybe some additional babysitting, and possibly a few extra dinners you throw on the grill. Seriously think about it. You are emotional and susceptible right now; let your sister handle this.


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## Drumstick

Sorry about the children, ddude23's? Had you two ever discussed adoption?


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## Emerging Buddhist

ddude23 said:


> So here we are. Going through mediation. No chance of reconciliation, she is completely in love with him and his family. While she leaves me in the dust to go be with her new family. I will never EVER forgive or respect her again. She doesn't deserve to be a mother.


Why give her so much power?

Unforgiven is more a ball and chain on you than her... your judgement is making you bitter, bitterness leads to hate.

Let it go...


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## honcho

ddude23 said:


> Were not in mediation yet. I meant as in that's what we've agreed too by talking. Nothing has been signed at all. All we have done so far is separate the finances and have a discussion about what we are doing. Me exposing her to others and workplaces just allows me to stay in this drama filled situation and my sister advised against it. I also purchased a VAR. If she will still be living here I will protect myself.


If the 2 of you are in agreement regarding division of assets/liabilities on day one you have no need for mediation and the courts will rubber stamp an easy divorce without question especially since you don't have kids. I haven't heard one thing that the two of you aren't in agreement on so why are you making this more complicated?

Have your sister write up agreement, give it to your stbx, it's up to her at this point to either talk to a lawyer, request changes or just sign it. 

Mr perfect could very well have some sort of agreement with his ex regarding kids/people moving in but if they are officially divorced they rarely hold up in court. Mr perfect isn't in this game for the long haul, he's gonna have his fun then bail. Then while your waiting for a mediation appointment your easy divorce is going to get "complicated".


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## EleGirl

ddude23 said:


> I told my sister I really appreciate her help but she has other stuff to do and business to attend to. Has her own career and her own family. I'd like to get this completely done by myself now. We are going through mediation, she told me although the mediator is a neutral third party she thinks my wife will manipulate and guilt trip me. I won't allow myself to be manipulated by her anymore.
> 
> I just want to get out of this mess and if I save money in the process then so be it. If I won't have to pay her spousal support and don't have a connection to her afterwards then yeah. I don't know why I felt so guilty. Was a mess last night and had too much to drink. She surely wouldn't care anyway, she's checked out. Only problem with this is me having to sit with her through this acting all friendly after what she's done and is doing.
> 
> Reasoning for her not living with the boyfriend because "he has a weird custody agreement with his ex so she can't live with him" Don't even know what that means. I am going to do the 180 as hard as it is. Many mentioned that the kids were a big draw for her, you're right. She was face timing his daughter today. Unbelievable. Gave up having kids for this woman that I don't even recognize.
> 
> So here we are. Going through mediation. No chance of reconciliation, she is completely in love with him and his family. While she leaves me in the dust to go be with her new family. I will never EVER forgive or respect her again. She doesn't deserve to be a mother.


Um.. I rather doubt that any divorce/custody agreement states that either party cannot have someone move into their home. Sorry but that is just not what a court would agree with. Maybe you should go down to the county clerk office and pull his divorce. Read it for yourself. The guy is probably dating other women and so does not want her around full time.

I think you are making a huge mistake going to mediation. I don't know why you think that you are going to not have to pay her alimony if you go to mediation. Remember that in mediation, you BOTH have to agree on everything. At this point you are not emotionally strong enough to stand up to your wife. That's pretty clear. She is going to walk all over you. And the mediator will not stop her because that is not what they are paid to do.

Keep your sister in the loop, consult with her all along the way. If your stbx is pushing you too much for stuff that you don't want, got back to your sister representing you.

Now on to your finances. Do you have joint accounts with your wife? If so, on Monday, go to your bank and withdraw almost all money in the joint accounts and put it in accounts in your own name. Leave whatever she deposited this month from her pay.

This is not stealing. There is a paper trail so during the divorce you can show where the money went.

It's also not theft for one spouse to take marital income and put them in a secret account. Half of your joint income belongs to her just as the other half belongs to you. She can do what she wants with her half within reason. What is wrong is for her to not list any of her personal accounts when it comes to the divorce.

The reason I suggested you move almost all the money to your own personal account is that you now have to start paying the bills. So you need that money to pay the bills.

Do you know where she keeps all the financial paperwork? Get all of it and remove it from the home so you have time to go through it. Maybe your sister would allow you to store it there? Or rent a climate controlled storage room and move it there. I did that. And I put a small table, chair and lamp in the storage room. That way I could go through everything in peace.

While you are going through all the papers, separate out any papers that are hers alone.. like her birth certificate and other legal documents. If you find any bills in her name, like credit card bills, get copies of them. If you find any bank account info in her name only, get copies of every statement and/or piece of paper related to it. Then give her the originals of her papers back. But you keep your copies.

Find out what your bills are and start paying your own bills. If any of the bills, like the utilities, are in her name but they are for 'your' stuff, call the company and get them in your name only.

One way to handle bills is to create a spread sheet and list all the bills in one column: due-date, bill-name, average-amount-due, Jan, Feb, Mar,Apr,...., Dec

Due-date is the day of the month that the bill is due so you can schedule when to pay it

Bill-name - name of company

Average-due is usually due... I use get a ball park monthly average expense amount.

Jan.. Dec ... l enter the amount I actually pay each month. 

Then setup one day a week to spend 15-30 minutes track and pay your bills.​
Do that you and you will have complete control over your finances. It's easy, not some big mystery. And it will shock the hell out of your wife when you so easily take over something that she thought she had to control.

Is she on any credit cards with you? If she is you will need to try to get her off them.

If you do not know the password for online accounts, ask her for them. If she will not give them to her, ask for them in front of the mediator. 

Get busy with the business of setting up your new life.

If you have not been handling the bills and money, then you need to learn how. There are two things you can do to learn about how to do this.

One is read the book *"The Automatic Millionaire, Expanded and Updated: A Powerful One-Step Plan to Live and Finish Rich"*

Then look up Dave Ramsey's site. He teaches people how to handle their money.


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## commonsenseisn't

ddude23 said:


> I won't allow myself to be manipulated by her anymore....
> 
> Reasoning for her not living with the boyfriend because "he has a weird custody agreement with his ex so she can't live with him"


Really? You really think you won't allow yourself to be manipulated any more?

And then in the next breath you are falling for the weird custody agreement? 

This is what is really happening: posom is manipulating your wife to get sex. Your wife is manipulating you to let posom get sex from her. You are falling for it and making tons of mistakes. 

Break the cycle by doing a hard 180 and stop engaging with her. Ram a swift divorce down her throat asap. And for God's sake use a lawyer!


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## EleGirl

honcho said:


> *If the 2 of you are in agreement regarding division of assets/liabilities on day one you have no need for mediation and the courts will rubber stamp an easy divorce without question especially since you don't have kids. * I haven't heard one thing that the two of you aren't in agreement on so why are you making this more complicated?
> 
> Have your sister write up agreement, give it to your stbx, it's up to her at this point to either talk to a lawyer, request changes or just sign it.


This is absolutely right. You don't need a mediator. 

It would take your sister no time at all to put together the paperwork needed for you to do a pro se divorce (represent yourself). She writes it all up and puts on it that it's pro se. Then you file it. 

I'm not a lawyer. But I have done the paperwork for a few divorces this way. I did my own divorce. Then I've helped a few friends & family how had no children involved. My divorce cost me $135 (filing fee). When both parties agree, it's that simple. 

What state do you live in? Just about every state has a self-help website with all the forums and instructions.


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## EleGirl

ddude23 said:


> Were not in mediation yet. I meant as in that's what we've agreed too by talking. Nothing has been signed at all. All we have done so far is separate the finances and have a discussion about what we are doing. Me exposing her to others and workplaces just allows me to stay in this drama filled situation and my sister advised against it. I also purchased a VAR. If she will still be living here I will protect myself.


I agree.

Exposure at this time serves no good purpose and could blow up in your face. 

Having her served at work could also blow up in your face.


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## mickybill

ddude23 said:


> I told my sister I really appreciate her help but she has other stuff to do and business to attend to. Has her own career and her own family. I'd like to get this completely done by myself now. We are going through mediation, she told me although the mediator is a neutral third party she thinks my wife will manipulate and guilt trip me. I won't allow myself to be manipulated by her anymore.



ddude.
LET YOUR SISTER DO WHAT SHE DOES! To her it's just more legal paperwork but instead of stranger's problems she is helping her brother! It makes her feel good, you need to let her help.

You cannot do this by yourself unless you want live in a van down by the river, because you were feeling like you didn't deserve anything and gave it all to her in hopes of not making her mad.

You need your sister in the mediation or xW will roll you up.


----------



## lorikeet25

You seem to be trying to take the high road and play nice. She is counting on that. 
A divorce where everyone agrees doesn't require a mediator, and you don't have to use one just because she wants to. You can tell her no. 
You are making a huge mistake cutting your sister out of this. Basically you are trusting your WW over your sister. That is not a good move. I hope you reconsider.


----------



## ddude23

I feel like this is my battle to fight so to say. I've already been dealt devastating blow after blow. Here is what my wife is saying. 

She wants to do mediation because it is cheaper and she does not trust lawyers. She doesn't want to pay for one and doesn't want to use one period. Also has remarked about how she's worried about me going forward and would like to be my friend throughout this. 

Never ever has she liked taking money from people, and is refusing to take money from me. She handled all the finances and the bills really. I don't know much about that stuff at all. 

The lawyer fees is what she is afraid of and the amount of money a divorce can achieve. We are in Iowa. Funny how my sister is saying the exact same thing as you guys about her manipulating me but yet I keep falling for it. I don't want any bad blood, I just want to get through this friendly. 

If she is not fighting me for anything no home equity, no spousal support, nothing at all why should I piss her off and get her served? This is about me just moving forward. I don't want to be her friend but right now I have the fake it till I make it mentality. 

Frankly I don't think she understands divorce really well. Then again neither do I. All she said was she wants to do it in a very cost efficient way.


----------



## lucy999

While i respect your decision, you are making a HUGE mistake by going to mediation. Just because you say you aren't going to let your W manipulate you anymore doesn't make it so. Your recent posts still reflect tha you're codependent on her. she's already manipulated you by your agreement to go to mediation.

If it's going to be that easy, if you think it'll be a simple drive by divorce, no muss, no fuss, then it will be merely a blip on your sister's radar, another day in the life of a lawyer. Easy peasy. Hell, her paralegal would most likely do the Lion's Share of the paperwork anyway. She's your sister. Let her help you. I'm not sure you realize how many betrayeds here would've given their eyeteeth to have a lawyer in the family. You are hugely blessed in that regard. Please do not look a gift horse in the mouth.

Your W is going to rake you over the coals even more than she has. You need at least have your sister be your attorney of record. Proceed at your own peril.

Because your W is likely no more than OMs plaything and flavor of the month.
When this crashes and burns, and it will, she'll come crawling back to you. And when (gosh i hope you wouldn't take her back) she wants to R and you say no, it'll get super ugly.

Buckle your seatbelt, man. It's going to be a real bumpy ride. I wish you all the best.


----------



## Marc878

ddude23 said:


> I feel like this is my battle to fight so to say. I've already been dealt devastating blow after blow. Here is what my wife is saying.
> 
> She wants to do mediation because it is cheaper and she does not trust lawyers. She doesn't want to pay for one and doesn't want to use one period. Also has remarked about how she's worried about me going forward and would like to be my friend throughout this.
> 
> Never ever has she liked taking money from people, and is refusing to take money from me. She handled all the finances and the bills really. I don't know much about that stuff at all.
> 
> The lawyer fees is what she is afraid of and the amount of money a divorce can achieve. We are in Iowa. Funny how my sister is saying the exact same thing as you guys about her manipulating me but yet I keep falling for it. I don't want any bad blood, I just want to get through this friendly.
> 
> If she is not fighting me for anything no home equity, no spousal support, nothing at all why should I piss her off and get her served? This is about me just moving forward. I don't want to be her friend but right now I have the fake it till I make it mentality.
> 
> Frankly I don't think she understands divorce really well. Then again neither do I. All she said was she wants to do it in a very cost efficient way.


You are putting too much trust in a cheating liar. Who also knows how easily you can be manipulated. Good luck with that.


----------



## Marc878

At least let your sister brief you on what's going to happen.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

She handled the finances!!!

1. Have you separated your finances? If not get ready for "Niagara Falls " 3 Stooges reference

2. The longer you wait the more prepared she is and will be able to do something, unless she signs a legal document saying she is not interested in all that y
you say she is she can Turn on you and the " S**t will hit the fan"

3.Separate finances, setup you own accounts, if she says she is not interested in anything have your sister draw it up and have her sign it in front of a notary (A Cold day in H**l will occur when that happens.)

4. Do as others have stated the 180 otherwise you are being Kevin Bacon in Animal House "Please Sir may I have another"


----------



## honcho

ddude23 said:


> I feel like this is my battle to fight so to say. I've already been dealt devastating blow after blow. Here is what my wife is saying.
> 
> She wants to do mediation because it is cheaper and she does not trust lawyers. She doesn't want to pay for one and doesn't want to use one period. Also has remarked about how she's worried about me going forward and would like to be my friend throughout this.
> 
> Never ever has she liked taking money from people, and is refusing to take money from me. She handled all the finances and the bills really. I don't know much about that stuff at all.
> 
> The lawyer fees is what she is afraid of and the amount of money a divorce can achieve. We are in Iowa. Funny how my sister is saying the exact same thing as you guys about her manipulating me but yet I keep falling for it. I don't want any bad blood, I just want to get through this friendly.
> 
> If she is not fighting me for anything no home equity, no spousal support, nothing at all why should I piss her off and get her served? This is about me just moving forward. I don't want to be her friend but right now I have the fake it till I make it mentality.
> 
> Frankly I don't think she understands divorce really well. Then again neither do I. All she said was she wants to do it in a very cost efficient way.


You not listening and neither is she. Elegirl laid it out very easily. What don't you agree upon? Why do you need mediation? She doesn't need to spend huge amounts on a lawyer or a mediatior and neither do you. Again, if the two of you agree on everything what's the hangup? 

It's costs generally a couple hundred bucks in filing fees etc doing a divorce yourself, a lawyer to review the forms that you've filled them out correctly will probably cost a billable hour if you chose to do that. 

Your stuck on not pissing her off and she's stuck on not spending money on lawyers but neither of you seem to want to address the simply easy way to do this.


----------



## *Deidre*

drifting on said:


> I have said what you have said above also, but once it happens to you there is so much to consider. I'm not saying that if you are in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship infidelity doesn't hurt, but you can split up and never see that person again. In marriage you may still have to deal with that person for as long as a divorce takes. You may have to co-parent, pay money, fight tooth and nail for what is yours. In other words you may still have to deal with this person for years. That's not a reason to stay together, but rather gives more thought to what you once thought you would do. While I hope you never have to go through infidelity, if it happens to you I can tell you it will mess with the beliefs you once had.
> 
> Infidelity was a deal breaker for me, thought that my entire life, until it happened. What was best for me, was reconciliation, however difficult it has been. I don't feel weak to have reconciled, I have become a much better person overall. I believe people are capable of change, just as they are capable to change to have an affair. What the wayward spouse does after they cheated is telling of who they are. Just as they were capable to have an affair they are capable to become better people. It's not in my nature to condemn a person for a series of bad decisions that leads to infidelity. Instead, I wait to see their response to what they have done.
> 
> I deal with people most would run from, say to rid them from society, but reality is they made a bad decision. A bad decision can have consequences that may last a lifetime, or for a number of years, but how they respond to the bad decision should also be noted and considered. If you kill someone you may get parole, does that mean they will kill again? Are you going to tell me a leopard can't change their spots? Or once a killer always a killer? That person will have to live with their bad decision for life, a much harsher sentence then I could ever provide.


I understand, and I hope your marriage continues to work out, as you have reconciled. But, divorcing someone over infidelity isn't ''condemnation,'' it just says ''I'm not accepting this in my life.'' That's all, I realize people can mess up, and they can change, but not reconciling doesn't make a betrayed spouse weak, either. It just means that is something they don't want in their lives. Forgiveness comes from within, it doesn't mean you have to remain in the relationship with the person. You're right though, I've not been married yet, and so it's ''easy'' for me to be adamant on my stance having never been through it. I just wouldn't want to be married to someone who would do that to me, it seems like it would send a message to the WS that it's okay, you can walk on me, cheat on me, and I'll always be here.  You know?


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

ddude23 said:


> I feel like this is my battle to fight so to say. I've already been dealt devastating blow after blow. Here is what my wife is saying.
> 
> She wants to do mediation because it is cheaper and she does not trust lawyers. She doesn't want to pay for one and doesn't want to use one period. Also has remarked about how she's worried about me going forward and would like to be my friend throughout this.
> 
> Never ever has she liked taking money from people, and is refusing to take money from me. She handled all the finances and the bills really. I don't know much about that stuff at all.
> 
> The lawyer fees is what she is afraid of and the amount of money a divorce can achieve. We are in Iowa. Funny how my sister is saying the exact same thing as you guys about her manipulating me but yet I keep falling for it. I don't want any bad blood, I just want to get through this friendly.
> 
> If she is not fighting me for anything no home equity, no spousal support, nothing at all why should I piss her off and get her served? This is about me just moving forward. I don't want to be her friend but right now I have the fake it till I make it mentality.
> 
> Frankly I don't think she understands divorce really well. Then again neither do I. All she said was she wants to do it in a very cost efficient way.


She does not want a lawyer so she can really finish you off. Get ready. You are getting ready to get your head handed to you on a platter.You have already conceded to her. You really need help as you appear to me to be scared of your own shadow. Listen to your sister. Quit being such a wimp. Stand up for yourself. I bet you are going to be like Flounder in "Animal House"....."Kent, you f'd up. You trusted us." :surprise:


----------



## EleGirl

ddude23 said:


> I feel like this is my battle to fight so to say. I've already been dealt devastating blow after blow. Here is what my wife is saying.
> 
> She wants to do mediation because it is cheaper and she does not trust lawyers. She doesn't want to pay for one and doesn't want to use one period. Also has remarked about how she's worried about me going forward and would like to be my friend throughout this.
> 
> Never ever has she liked taking money from people, and is refusing to take money from me. She handled all the finances and the bills really. I don't know much about that stuff at all.
> 
> The lawyer fees is what she is afraid of and the amount of money a divorce can achieve. We are in Iowa. Funny how my sister is saying the exact same thing as you guys about her manipulating me but yet I keep falling for it. I don't want any bad blood, I just want to get through this friendly.
> 
> If she is not fighting me for anything no home equity, no spousal support, nothing at all why should I piss her off and get her served? This is about me just moving forward. I don't want to be her friend but right now I have the fake it till I make it mentality.
> 
> Frankly I don't think she understands divorce really well. Then again neither do I. All she said was she wants to do it in a very cost efficient way.


The thing is that you do not have to even do mediation. You could just have your sister draw up the divorce agreement they way your wife says she wants it. You don't have to have her served. Just leave a copy of the kitchen table. She can review it. If she wants a few things changed and they are ok with you, you have your sister change them. When she agreed with what is written, she signs it. You file it. Divorce is done in a short while.

The problem with a mediator is that the mediator will talk to her and will most likely help get her to give up ideas like no alimony. Yes mediators do that.

Try the thing with your sister doing the paperwork and asking your wife to sign if she agrees. If she does not, then that can be your starting point in mediation.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

ddude23 said:


> She wants to do mediation because it is cheaper and she does not trust lawyers. She doesn't want to pay for one and doesn't want to use one period. Also has remarked about how she's worried about me going forward and would like to be my friend throughout this.
> 
> Never ever has she liked taking money from people, and is refusing to take money from me. She handled all the finances and the bills really. I don't know much about that stuff at all.
> 
> The lawyer fees is what she is afraid of and the amount of money a divorce can achieve. We are in Iowa. Funny how my sister is saying the exact same thing as you guys about her manipulating me but yet I keep falling for it. I don't want any bad blood, I just want to get through this friendly.
> 
> If she is not fighting me for anything no home equity, no spousal support, nothing at all why should I piss her off and get her served? This is about me just moving forward. I don't want to be her friend but right now I have the fake it till I make it mentality.
> 
> Frankly I don't think she understands divorce really well. Then again neither do I. All she said was she wants to do it in a very cost efficient way.


This is classic manipulation. She knows the family finances, and you don't. She's proven she's not trustworthy. She wants you to just go by what she says "to save money" so she can get things to her advantage.

You have a free lawyer in your sister, who can draw up a separation agreement just like a mediator could, with the terms you have described. No need to bother with mediation. Mediation can turn out to be a way for her to manipulate you into giving her an advantage. Tell her you'll do mediation if your sister can come!


----------



## straightshooter

ddude23 said:


> I feel like this is my battle to fight so to say. I've already been dealt devastating blow after blow. Here is what my wife is saying.
> 
> She wants to do mediation because it is cheaper and she does not trust lawyers. She doesn't want to pay for one and doesn't want to use one period. Also has remarked about how she's worried about me going forward and would like to be my friend throughout this.
> 
> Never ever has she liked taking money from people, and is refusing to take money from me. She handled all the finances and the bills really. I don't know much about that stuff at all.
> 
> The lawyer fees is what she is afraid of and the amount of money a divorce can achieve. We are in Iowa. Funny how my sister is saying the exact same thing as you guys about her manipulating me but yet I keep falling for it. I don't want any bad blood, I just want to get through this friendly.
> 
> If she is not fighting me for anything no home equity, no spousal support, nothing at all why should I piss her off and get her served? This is about me just moving forward. I don't want to be her friend but right now I have the fake it till I make it mentality.
> 
> Frankly I don't think she understands divorce really well. Then again neither do I. All she said was she wants to do it in a very cost efficient way.


Dude,

OK buddy, put your football helmet on because there is a 2 x 4 headed you way. It is starting to appear here ,since you are not listening to anyone here, that you are attempting to get her to pity you enough to come back to you.

You are an adult acting like you do not know how to balance a checkbook. Your wife is not only ****ing her boyfriend daily she is ****ing your mind daily and you are letting her. Isn't it nice? She's worried about you and wants to be friends. Really??? She wants to be friends so you will continue to let her lead you around by the nose and so she gets to stay in the house as long as possible. 

The "weird" divorce arrangement her boyfriend has?? Well, what the hell is she going to do when she's divorced?? Refuse to let you sell the house??? That will be her next move if her boyfriend is a realtor. If she is on the deed you cannot sell the house without her signing. How nice. She'll want to ut of concern for you want to be "roommates". 

Now you have apparently a responsible job so I assume you are educated. Start acting like it, I use your free lawyer, and stop the pity party. Its a bad situation but you ain't helping yourself one bit by getting manipulated like putty.

Too ****ing bad. Your wife does not trust lawyers. Well, you have no reason to trust her so there is one good reason to use a lawyer.

There is no R happening here unless you lose your mind. So stop holding out this hope that if you do not piss her off she may come back to you. And I cannot even imagine why you would want her back and I did reconcile so I am not a pro D ideologue.


----------



## Marc878

Look, we all need to seek help at times. The mark of a smart person is to seek it out when dealing with something they know so little about.

Get out of the infidelity first and work on standing on your own two feet later.

I'm not sure you recognize how much of a disaster a badly handled divorce can be.

It's in her best interest to have control over this and you just go along with it and find out later how badly you've gotten screwed.


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## Marc878

Do not sign anything until you have your sister look it over first. Anyone can say "I want to think about this" before signing.


----------



## Affaircare

@ddude23, 

I can make this pretty simple for you. If you and your stbxw agree on the terms of your divorce, you can download the forms yourselves and fill them out yourselves as co-petitioners. Here is the link to Iowa's judicial branch, that has a guide to divorce and the forms: Iowa Judicial Branch

Your stbxw keeps saying she wants to do a mediator and not a lawyer because she means she doesn't want the huge legal fight, right? She doesn't want YOU to get a lawyer and HER to get a lawyer, and then spend thousands on lawyer fees rather than just civilly splitting up. So if the two of you agree, there is no legal requirement that you "have to" go through a mediator. If you two agree, the forms can be filled out and filed by you, by her, by a paralegal, by an instant online divorce company...as CO-PETITIONERS. Then the court just orders what the two of you agreed to in the forms. It's like the judge stamps it and makes it official. 

So when we say "let your sister fill out the forms" the idea isn't that you hire your sister to be a pitbull laywer and start a fight with your stbxw. We just mean that she happens to be someone who knows how to fill out the forms properly, and if YOU agree and the STBXW agrees--she can make sure there's not some stupid field missing that will mess things up. Also yes she's your sister, so just in case she'll keep a little eye out to make sure you aren't being royally screwed. Honestly, since you guys have no kids and no serious assets or debts, it should be pretty easy to split things equitably.

So hiring your sister to do the forms does not mean a fight. It means that you download the forms and start writing them in pencil. You and your stbxw fill them out somewhat together writing down as best you can what your agreement is. Then you take the pencil thing to you sister and she fills out the official forms--maybe charges you a couple hundred bucks for "form filling and filing"--and you are done. 

Make sense??


----------



## jsmart

I'm sensing the same ulterior motive for this playing nice thing as @straightshooter. Trying to be the nice, reasonable, understanding, and just upright guy is not going to work. If you were to read as many threads as most TAMers have, you'd know that your actions will actually repulse your STBXW even more than she already is.

This woman has no respect for you or all the history you have together. She's openly screwing this guy and then because she tells you she wants to be friends, you think there's a sliver of hope that she'll come around. Woman always say they want to be friends, as a way to get you to put your guard down as they stick the shiv in you. Of course there's the not wanting to be seen as the bad guy. Very important to a woman.

If she's really being honest about not wanting anything from you, then have your sister draw docs as @EleGirl suggested. Letting a mediator in the pic is going to change everything. First thing that will happen is they will whisper sweet ideas about getting what's yours. No fault divorce guarantees that it's the higher earning, usually the man's fault. Ignore El's advise at your own peril.


----------



## mickybill

straightshooter said:


> The "weird" divorce arrangement her boyfriend has?? Well, what the hell is she going to do when she's divorced?? Refuse to let you sell the house??? That will be her next move if her boyfriend is a realtor. If she is on the deed you cannot sell the house without her signing. How nice. She'll want to ut of concern for you want to be "roommates".


Or the move will be to sell the house and have the OM get the listing...


----------



## EleGirl

mickybill said:


> Or the move will be to sell the house and have the OM get the listing...


Well that's one way to get real estate listings >


----------



## commonsenseisn't

ddude23 said:


> Also has remarked about how she's worried about me going forward and would like to be my friend throughout this....
> Never ever has she liked taking money from people, and is refusing to take money from me.


And it didn't make you barf when you heard this? She's playing you. Just have the papers made up as per Ele's suggestion and get it over with. In the mean time stop listening to your wife, it just gives her leverage over you.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Manchester said:


> ddude
> 
> You are doing fine brother. My divorce cost me more money than I even had!
> 
> Your wife feels badly about how she treated you with the whole affair and now she wants to make it right.
> 
> Mediation is the way to go you will save a TON of money and then you will remain friends and you can lean on her for support until you meet someone someday but don't rush into anything.
> 
> People sound jealous that you are going to get a good deal and a peaceful resolution to your problems.


No, mediation is not the way to go. The mediator will want to make it fair for both parties, right now her fog is giving you the advantage. Get your sister to write up the agreement the way your stbxw said it and have her sign it, then you file it. Much much cheaper and easier than going through a mediator and your wife gets to give you what she wanted to give you to salve her conscience.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Manchester said:


> A mediator will put her at ease.
> 
> If you use your sister your wife will see that as adversarial and the peaceful atmosphere will quickly crumble and you will be looking at World War III.


Not if she doesn't know his sister is involved. Like Elegirl said earlier, sister fills out the paperwork and marks them pro se and ddude takes them to stbx, shows her that the papers say just what she said she wanted, gets her to sign them then files them. Easy, cheap, done.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Manchester said:


> *She wants to go to a mediator. He can't just go and change the rules and say "no mediation, *you need to sign these papers".
> 
> It will explode like a powder keg!
> 
> They need to sit together with a mediator and both tell the mediator what they want and the mediator will help them with the forms so it's all done as a team and everyone feels like they got a fair shake.
> 
> One thing I've learned lately is it's best to keep the attorneys out of it altogether.


Why does she get to make the rules?


----------



## EleGirl

A mediator is going to insist that she gets alimony, half the home equity, etc.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Manchester said:


> A mediator will put her at ease.
> 
> If you use your sister your wife will see that as adversarial and the peaceful atmosphere will quickly crumble and you will be looking at World War III.


He's already in World War III and his marriage has been nuked. He's standing in the aftermath, and she wants him to pretend she didn't drop the bomb, that she's on his side.

Whatever she suggests, you can bet there's a hidden benefit to her.


----------



## sokillme

ddude23 said:


> Were not in mediation yet. I meant as in that's what we've agreed too by talking. Nothing has been signed at all. All we have done so far is separate the finances and have a discussion about what we are doing. Me exposing her to others and workplaces just allows me to stay in this drama filled situation and my sister advised against it. I also purchased a VAR. If she will still be living here I will protect myself.


Don't be stupid get a lawyer. A lawyer is there to protect you. Your wife doesn't have your best interest at heart, you should know this by now. You only get one chance at this. Now is the time to suck it up and be strong. You have no idea how the court system works you don't even know, your own finances and you are going to go into a room with the person who does know has been in control of them and work out a fair deal. Seriously you are working from a very bad hand. Slow down, and get someone who will advocate for you.


----------



## manfromlamancha

ddude you really need to listen to the advice being given. Here is what you need to be clear on:



You both need to sign divorce papers at some stage to be divorced! Whether you both agree to what the terms are, or you use a mediator to arrive at a decision, or you battle it out with lawyers! Whether the papers are served or you deliver them. Normally both of you have lawyers even if there is mediation.


In your case you don't need mediation and neither do you need to battle it out with lawyers. This is because you have already both agreed the terms. So now all you need is a lawyer to just draft the final agreement and for both of you to sign - much cheaper than even mediation.


You are both lucky, because you have a sister who is willing to draft this agreement up for both of you to sign. (You are also lucky because she doesn't want spousal support and there are no kids) - couldn't get simpler. Let your sister draft the agreement give her a copy, both of you sign and send it in.


Get this freakin' circus over and done with. Living in the same house with her is going to be pure hell. Get to the end of this asap.


Now some other things you need to pay attention to:



Your stbxw is a disrespectful liar and a cheat (and also sounds pretty stupid too). The POSOM is definitely a predator and just sees her as a piece of a$$.


When she says she loves him, she is stupid. When he says he loves her, he is a predator. You need to understand this and stop trying to rationalise anything else.


They BOTH have very low morals.


She is NOT that girl you have imagined being at your side all these years - this is what she is (grew up into). Not a nice person. In fact, I believe you have just seen the tip of the iceberg. Be thankful that you have no kids and are still pretty young. 


By the time she is 40 she will have evolved even more into a worse person. Thing is POSOM is not going to experience that because he is aware of what she is.


Remember to expose far and wide once the papers have been signed and the dust has settled.


You don't seem to be doing much to help yourself even though you are getting pretty sound advice from people who have experience of this. Having said that you haven't done too badly so far. Don't sleep with other women until you are ready - thats what the 180 is for. To get you ready mentally and to help you heal.


Get down on your knees and thank a higher power that you have been spared more years of what would be a disaster further down the line.


Take care.


----------



## Archangel2

sokillme said:


> Don't be stupid get a lawyer. A lawyer is there to protect you. Your wife doesn't have your best interest at heart, you should know this by now. You only get one chance at this. Now is the time to suck it up and be strong. You have no idea how the court system works* you don't even know, your own finances and you are going to go into **a room with the person who does know has been in control of them and work out a fair deal*. Seriously you are working from a very bad hand. Slow down, and get someone who will advocate for you.


:iagree:

With all due respect, you would be a lamb being led to slaughter.


----------



## mr man

Lostme said:


> Sorry you are here.
> 
> 
> 
> The truth is unless she stays away from this guy, you will not be able to work on the marriage. you need to give her an ultimatum it's you or him and if she can't decide then hand her divorce papers maybe that will wake her up. Do not hang around and be her plan B




This is good advice ... make her realize that you have dignity and that you can live without her. Once you beg and cry it's over. Do you have kids ? If so it's worth a shot if not, I'd advice to let it go since it's apparent that she is one who is vulnerable. Good luck buddy. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ddude23

Yeah you're all right. I'm taking the advice of elgirl and would like to thank her personally for that helpful and thoughtful response. I explained it all to the stbxw and she's agreeing to my terms. Tells me she cares "a lot" about my well being. Sure she does, anyway my sister is going to draw up the papers and starting next week I will be a man on his way to a new life. 

I know my stbxw, I know she feels guilty but it's not enough. No mediation for us, turns out she doesn't really understand it. She looks at divorce as spouses battling it out nasty in court like her parents. Least she can do is make this easy for me. 

Have not cried today, plus!! She said she would like me in her life after this is over. Not happening. Not after what she's done. 

I am going to join meetup. I need to make friends. Women, men.


----------



## sokillme

ddude23 said:


> Yeah you're all right. I'm taking the advice of elgirl and would like to thank her personally for that helpful and thoughtful response. I explained it all to the stbxw and she's agreeing to my terms. Tells me she cares "a lot" about my well being. Sure she does, anyway my sister is going to draw up the papers and starting next week I will be a man on his way to a new life.
> 
> I know my stbxw, I know she feels guilty but it's not enough. No mediation for us, turns out she doesn't really understand it. She looks at divorce as spouses battling it out nasty in court like her parents. Least she can do is make this easy for me.
> 
> Have not cried today, plus!! She said she would like me in her life after this is over. Not happening. Not after what she's done.
> 
> I am going to join meetup. I need to make friends. Women, men.


Good, hold her to this. It's good that she is not that bright? She went to Harvard you say? Your wife is lost and not a very good person. They all seem to think they can be in your life after they stab you in the head. Guess since they have no honor, so they can't understand it. 

I know you are feeling bad, but just think about the lack of just basic human empathy it takes to do what she did and then think you guys can be friends. You really have to be emotionally retarded to think this way. I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, I mean that you have to not understand how emotions work in a fundamental something is defective in your brain kind of way. And they all do this. Which is what makes them bad candidates for have relationships with. What is necessary is beyond the understanding. You sir are SO much better off. Your stbxw is going to have a very hard time of it I think. You need to be long gone.


----------



## straightshooter

ddude23 said:


> Yeah you're all right. I'm taking the advice of elgirl and would like to thank her personally for that helpful and thoughtful response. I explained it all to the stbxw and she's agreeing to my terms. Tells me she cares "a lot" about my well being. Sure she does, anyway my sister is going to draw up the papers and starting next week I will be a man on his way to a new life.
> 
> I know my stbxw, I know she feels guilty but it's not enough. No mediation for us, turns out she doesn't really understand it. She looks at divorce as spouses battling it out nasty in court like her parents. Least she can do is make this easy for me.
> 
> Have not cried today, plus!! She said she would like me in her life after this is over. Not happening. Not after what she's done.
> 
> I am going to join meetup. I need to make friends. Women, men.


Dude,

Bravo!!! You are now on the right path. Just remember, she has had four months to rehearse this ****. She was banging this guy from the gitgo, and confessed to you because she was confident enough in her relationship with this guy to stop cheating and confess, although I'm not sure why she started out denying a real affair.

You know you are not going to be "friends" with her. Once she signs that dotted line tell her to never contact you again and that she is dead as far as you are concerned. I would let her hold on to her little fantasy of you eating her **** sandwich and staying friends with her until she signs. There is absolutely no reason other than the house sale and her signing the papers, which you both do not have to be present for if you "DocuSign". 

Unless there is something in this guys weird divorce decree, pretty soon she is going to be coming home to an empty apartment somewhere since she apparently can't move in with lover boy. You do NOT want to be her sounding board when she complains about that.

Lastly, the best revenge for you is to become happy again. It will happen if you let it. If you read this forum or any other I assume, you will see how many men go through this and drag it out with a WW who refuses to give up boyfriend. They go through months and years sometimes of torment and hoping senselessly that their wife will come back to the marriage. You have avoided that. I know it does not seem like it now, but if she had done what most do, she would have told you she ended it and gone underground and your guts would have been taken out indefinitely.

Get her off your social media. Do not "pain shop" by checking anything, And shut her down if she tries to play miss compassionate. Despite her claim for undying love for OM now, it often happens that when it blows up they come back if there is still contact over kids or other issues.

Now get your sister to work putting this divorce into action. You are in e "homestretch"


----------



## cbnero

ddude23 said:


> Yeah you're all right. I'm taking the advice of elgirl and would like to thank her personally for that helpful and thoughtful response. I explained it all to the stbxw and she's agreeing to my terms. Tells me she cares "a lot" about my well being. Sure she does, anyway my sister is going to draw up the papers and starting next week I will be a man on his way to a new life.
> 
> I know my stbxw, I know she feels guilty but it's not enough. No mediation for us, turns out she doesn't really understand it. She looks at divorce as spouses battling it out nasty in court like her parents. Least she can do is make this easy for me.
> 
> Have not cried today, plus!! She said she would like me in her life after this is over. Not happening. Not after what she's done.
> 
> I am going to join meetup. I need to make friends. Women, men.


Good. Now you are thinking clearly.

One word of caution on meetup, as I did the same thing during the divorce. It's a great thing to meet new people to get your mind off stuff. Just remember to be aware of other hurt people you will meet. I met a bunch of other women, many of whom I thought were nice until I realized how broken they were. There is no shortage of women who left their marriages in this country. You sound like a decent guy. Do not fall victim to padding their ego. Plenty of them will give you attention which is great after what you went through. Like sirens luring in lonely sailors... proceed with caution!

And also don't get a DUI which honestly seems to happen in about 1/3 of the guys I know who get divorced. Watch your booze intake.

Congrats on your divorce from such a nasty woman. Enjoy all the new opportunities life offers you!


----------



## Chaparral

If there really is a restriction on him having a roommate it's because he was messing with other skanks while he was married.
My guess though is a newly divorced man has no intention of getting stuck with a woman that cheats.
The likely hood they stay together is only 3%. Slim and none.

Tell your wife you would love to see her in the future........every time you feel the need to get stabbed in the back.

I'm curious why the two of you didn't adopt.


----------



## eric1

Ask your sister how likely it is that she cannot live with him because of stipulations within a divorce.

Not like it really matters at this point.

You are emotionally compromised. I understand not wanting to infringe upon your sister to handle the actual divorce, but please please please lean on her in making these decisions. She'll knock your teeth out if you get manipulated into mediation. (and I mean that in a nice way  )


----------



## MyRevelation

Personally, I'd have your sister get a copy of the OM's divorce decree when she's at the courthouse ... it's public record. My guess there is nothing in there about opposite sex co-habitation. Not that it really matters towards the end game, but it's always nice to have a little something in your back pocket to use at the right time to show WW that her OM is lying to her.


----------



## Chaparral

Manchester said:


> You are saying that if he is barred from having a girlfriend stay over his house, it's because he cheated on his wife during the marriage, so a divorce court ordered this restriction?
> 
> Now I've heard everything.


I'm saying his wife insisted on it and he accepted it as part of their negotiations. I doubt she would have given something up unless she already knew there was a skank in the background. I would bet money he is a serial cheater.

Of course it's more than likely there is no restriction and he doesn't want her moving in. He's already getting what he wants from her and it ain't anything long term.


----------



## Chaparral

MyRevelation said:


> Personally, I'd have your sister get a copy of the OM's divorce decree when she's at the courthouse ... it's public record. My guess there is nothing in there about opposite sex co-habitation. Not that it really matters towards the end game, but it's always nice to have a little something in your back pocket to use at the right time to show WW that her OM is lying to her.


Or he could just call the Posom's wife like he was told more than once and get the story behind this dirtbag.


----------



## Marc878

ddude23 said:


> Yeah you're all right. I'm taking the advice of elgirl and would like to thank her personally for that helpful and thoughtful response. I explained it all to the stbxw and she's agreeing to my terms. Tells me she cares "a lot" about my well being. Sure she does, anyway my sister is going to draw up the papers and starting next week I will be a man on his way to a new life.
> 
> I know my stbxw, I know she feels guilty but it's not enough. No mediation for us, turns out she doesn't really understand it. She looks at divorce as spouses battling it out nasty in court like her parents. Least she can do is make this easy for me.
> 
> Have not cried today, plus!! *She said she would like me in her life after this is over. Not happening. Not after what she's done.*
> 
> I am going to join meetup. I need to make friends. Women, men.


Play it cool until she signs the documents and then block her on everything. You can go completely dark and never have to hear from her again.


----------



## ddude23

I don't want to learn more about the OM's past relationship. All I know is that he's a piece of **** and I won't give him the satisfaction of telling his ex wife. If he cheats or breaks my wife's heart it's not my problem. I am not going to show her how "bad he is" she will get hers soon enough.


----------



## bandit.45

ddude23 said:


> Yeah you're all right. I'm taking the advice of elgirl and would like to thank her personally for that helpful and thoughtful response. I explained it all to the stbxw and she's agreeing to my terms. Tells me she cares "a lot" about my well being. Sure she does, anyway my sister is going to draw up the papers and starting next week I will be a man on his way to a new life.
> 
> I know my stbxw, I know she feels guilty but it's not enough. No mediation for us, turns out she doesn't really understand it. She looks at divorce as spouses battling it out nasty in court like her parents. Least she can do is make this easy for me.
> 
> *Have not cried today, plus!! She said she would like me in her life after this is over. Not happening. Not after what she's done.
> *
> I am going to join meetup. I need to make friends. Women, men.


Yeah isn't it nice that she wants to friend-zone you? Tell her you don't stay friends with people who stab you in the back. 

She wants you to be friends with her so she can assuage her guilt for what she did. If you forgive her and be nice she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. Total selfishness.


----------



## EleGirl

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah isn't it nice that she wants to friend-zone you? Tell her you don't stay friends with people who stab you in the back.
> 
> She wants you to be friends with her so she can assuage her guilt for what she did. If you forgive her and be nice she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. Total selfishness.


He needs to hold off on telling her that he will not 'be her friend'. Get the quick divorce papers signed, filed, and the judge do the final signing so that he's divorced. Then he can tell her to get out of his life.

He can ignore her mostly now (per 180) without antagonizing her until he has that divorce.


----------



## curious234

with all this POSOM baggage the WW might get a hunch and change her mind. Are you still open to R. I hope not.


----------



## manwithnoname

It's in his best interest to proceed quickly, before her relationship goes south and she either wants to R or demands more from a D.


----------



## ReturntoZero

manwithnoname said:


> It's in his best interest to proceed quickly, before her relationship goes south and she either wants to R or demands more from a D.


Now is the "Opportune Moment"


----------



## commonsenseisn't

I get the vibe that the posom is only using your wife for sex and will not commit to her in the future. When reality comes crashing down she might realize how badly she messed up and there is a chance she will try to reconnect with you. I think you need to be giving yourself a daily pep talk about how crazy you would be to take her back. This way if/when it happens you will already be programmed to respond in your best interest.

If this happens I don't think you would be wise to allow yourself to believe that she has learned her lesson and you guys can get on with a second chance together. People like her damage themselves in these affairs so that they become ineligible for good second marriages. You would be much better off to take your chances on someone else who you should carefully screen for infidelity in their past. 

Good job in listening to Ele. Do the 180, go dark on your wife, ghost her as much as possible without undermining a smooth divorce. Be prepared for wife to start waking up to reality and making things tough. Just assure her she should "follow her heart" and wish her well. Once the divorce is done you can cut her loose any way you see fit. Good luck.


----------



## VladDracul

ddude23 said:


> *I know my stbxw, I know she feels guilty but it's not enough.* No mediation for us, *turns out she doesn't really understand it.* *She looks at divorce as spouses battling it out nasty in court like her parents. *Least she can do is make this easy for me.


Good to see you know women. Now if you're losing your hair, I've got some hair grower I want to sell you.


----------



## sokillme

MyRevelation said:


> Personally, I'd have your sister get a copy of the OM's divorce decree when she's at the courthouse ... it's public record. My guess there is nothing in there about opposite sex co-habitation. Not that it really matters towards the end game, but it's always nice to have a little something in your back pocket to use at the right time to show WW that her OM is lying to her.


Why? Again why should he spend one more moment with this women who treats him like garbage. Let her ruin her life and if it take a while for her to figure it out all the better, don't help her.


----------



## EleGirl

sokillme said:


> Why? Again why should he spend one more moment with this women who treats him like garbage. Let her ruin her life and if it take a while for her to figure it out all the better, don't help her. I sensing all the white knights just begging for R on this thread. First you break up her fantasy and they you will all run to tell him how she is showing remorse and now is a candidate for R.


I don’t think that anyone here is pushing him to try to recovery.

But that said, we are not here to push the OP to either recover or not recover. It’s his choice, whichever way he wants to go. And he has clearly stated that he wants a divorce.


----------



## eric1

I'm always in favor of finding out stuff like that. Knowledge is power.


----------



## sokillme

.


----------



## sokillme

EleGirl said:


> sokillme said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Again why should he spend one more moment with this women who treats him like garbage. Let her ruin her life and if it take a while for her to figure it out all the better, don't help her. I sensing all the white knights just begging for R on this thread. First you break up her fantasy and they you will all run to tell him how she is showing remorse and now is a candidate for R.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t think that anyone here is pushing him to try to recovery.
> 
> But that said, we are not here to push the OP to either recover or not recover. It’s his choice, whichever way he wants to go. And he has clearly stated that he wants a divorce.
Click to expand...

I changed my post I was too harsh, but OP needs to think strategically right now not emotionally.


----------



## ddude23

Reconciliation is not in our future. She seems so happy. Getting to enjoy life with her boyfriend and his kids. All while I'm sitting here trying to mend my broken heart and figure out where we went wrong. Telling people we know me and have had a rocky relationship behind the scenes (another lie) go figure.

I'll never forget. Reading the text she sent me telling me she's out with OM and doesn't know when she'll be home. Reading her texts of her speaking of how I neglect her. How she wants to run away with him and be his princess. How much she loves him and seeing him is the highlight of her day. How is she going to give him "private dance lessons". On our anniversary she was texting him how much it sucked that she was with me and not with him. Funny how she insisted we go out and had such a fun time. She was laughing and told me how much she loved me. Just makes no sense.

I won't ever reconcile with her. I'm extremely sad our marriage is ending and this is the way she has decided to end it. She has ripped my heart out and stomped on it. I only pity her future partners. This isn't the woman I married and I'll have to accept that. I am moving on.


----------



## Satya

You'll be OK, @ddude23. You're not there yet, but one day you'll wake up and realize that you just don't care anymore and you're ready to put all of that energy trying to understand her crud into your future wellbeing instead. 

I still don't have answers that I used to rail over in my brain re: my ex H. But I will never have them and it just doesn't matter anymore. I reflect on what happened as a lesson learned, but I don't bother trying to pick it apart anymore.


----------



## eric1

This was the woman that you married. As Maya Angelou said, when someone tells you who they are you believe them. Nobody tells you who they are right away. You're very lucky you found out when you did. Five years from now you'll be way better off and just look back on this time as a learning experience.

As for quotes for your present state of mind let me give you my favorite by Marcus Aurelius

_If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment._

What he's saying is that, right now, you have the capacity to be as happy as you want to be, and it looks like you're well on the path to doing so.

Get her served asap.


----------



## VladDracul

ddude23 said:


> I'll never forget. Reading the text she sent me telling me she's out with OM and doesn't know when she'll be home. Reading her texts of her speaking of how I neglect her. How she wants to run away with him and be his princess. How much she loves him and seeing him is the highlight of her day. How is she going to give him "private dance lessons". On our anniversary she was texting him how much it sucked that she was with me and not with him. Funny how she insisted we go out and had such a fun time. She was laughing and told me how much she loved me. Just makes no sense.


I keep telling you guys that there ain't nothing as uncaring, detached, and unsympathetic as a woman who has lost interest in a man. They make corporate raiders making hostile takeovers look tenderhearted. Take my word for it dawg, what you're reading in the text messages is minor compared to what she's telling him while practicing the horizontal mambo. If you have an sense at all, and I'm taking your post at face value, you'll tell big sis to kick in the turbocharges on the divorce and rid yourself of this jackal ASAP.


----------



## Yeswecan

ddude23 said:


> Reconciliation is not in our future. She seems so happy. Getting to enjoy life with her boyfriend and his kids. All while I'm sitting here trying to mend my broken heart and figure out where we went wrong. Telling people we know me and have had a rocky relationship behind the scenes (another lie) go figure.
> 
> I'll never forget. Reading the text she sent me telling me she's out with OM and doesn't know when she'll be home. Reading her texts of her speaking of how I neglect her. How she wants to run away with him and be his princess. How much she loves him and seeing him is the highlight of her day. How is she going to give him "private dance lessons". On our anniversary she was texting him how much it sucked that she was with me and not with him. Funny how she insisted we go out and had such a fun time. She was laughing and told me how much she loved me. Just makes no sense.
> 
> I won't ever reconcile with her. I'm extremely sad our marriage is ending and this is the way she has decided to end it. She has ripped my heart out and stomped on it. I only pity her future partners. This isn't the woman I married and I'll have to accept that. I am moving on.


Sorry it has gone sour. Your STBXW likes the shiny and new. Eventually it gets dull and old.


> seeing him is the highlight of her day


 ....that is not going to last I assure you.


----------



## MyRevelation

sokillme said:


> Why? Again why should he spend one more moment with this women who treats him like garbage. Let her ruin her life and if it take a while for her to figure it out all the better, don't help her.


Let's just say I have a vindictive streak in me ... if someone were to so joyfully screw me over like OP's WW is at present, then when her fantasy bubble bursts, I'd very much like to have some evidence to rub in her face to show her just how stupid she was to get played by such a worm, and how she pissed away the best thing that ever happened to her over a string of LIES.

... but that's just me.


----------



## drifting on

I agree with @eric1, find out all you can, it may be useful leverage if need be. If not then so be it, but at least you were prepared. As for the divorce, push that forward as hard as you can, whatever it takes. Hopefully the divorce goes through before OM's kids say, your not my mom. I wouldn't rock the boat until the divorce is signed by the judge, after that I'd nuke the boat and the harbor. Expose far and wide, this will end all the lies that everyone have been told. That's what I would do.


----------



## bigfoot

Dude, 

After reading your last post and after forgetting some of the earlier things said to you, please pardon me if I am being repetitive, but:

WAKE UP!!!! Your wife, that you claim to be seeing for the first time and so hurt about is the same seelf centered abomination that she has always been. You have some serious self esteem problems.

She can be happy with whomever happens to be attracted to her stench. She was not beautiful, she was not nice, she was not caring, she was not "wife" material. Who she is now is who she has always been. 
.
You are not losing a wife, you are losing a problem. You are not getting the crappy end of the stick, you are getting a gift that you were too blind to see all along. That gift is that TROLL of a woman out of your life.

Good people don't become evil like this. Evil people just stop being able to hide their true nature. WAKE UP. Recite it out loud daily as you stand in a power position (think superman-there is science to this believe it or not). 3 minutes a day, chest up, hands on hips, chin up, power pose and recite that you are awesome. Then, after doing that, throw something of hers away or something that is a memory of her. Recite Garbage out of my life. Her thoughts no longer matter. her feelings no longer matter. Her happiness no longer matters. She does not matter. Start it right now.


----------



## curious234

Like some one said she had been evaluating her best deal for months while sweet talking to both of you. Looks like she is good at double talk, so be careful about her showing concern for your welfare. thinking and analyzing what happened and what she did to you has no positive outcome and delay your recovery. You better stay more time away from the home mixing with people who care about you. Also always tell her you are keeping the house. Her new found concern for you may be to give POSOM the deal. I think being a little timid in the marriage and facing infidelity has a strong correlation


----------



## theDrifter

Total NC - other than logistical stuff regarding the kids - will help you detach from her the fastest. Be strong and resist any temptation you have to see or communicate with her. If you can do this for a single week you will notice that you are feeling more confident and after a month you'll be on your way to living without her. Your heart will still be broken and it's going to take longer to heal but detaching is the first step. Good luck...


----------



## bandit.45

Stop talking to her unless it's about the divorce or the kids.


----------



## TDSC60

bandit.45 said:


> Stop talking to her unless it's about the divorce or the kids.


He and soon STBXW do not have children.

The kids he is talking about are OM's


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

I would strongly encourage you to read Larry Winget's "Grow A Pair". You seem to relish being a doormat. You have to man up sir.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

ddude23 said:


> On our anniversary she was texting him how much it sucked that she was with me and not with him. Funny how she insisted we go out and had such a fun time. She was laughing and told me how much she loved me. Just makes no sense..


Hold on. Wait a minute. Am I correct in interpreting this as you letting her actually manipulate you into going out and have a "fun time"? You really did this? Are my reading comprehension skills lying to me? 

I'm speechless.


----------



## stixx

ddude23 said:


> Reading her texts of her speaking of how I neglect her. How she wants to run away with him and be his princess. How much she loves him and seeing him is the highlight of her day. How is she going to give him "private dance lessons". On our anniversary she was texting him how much it sucked that she was with me and not with him. Funny how she insisted we go out and had such a fun time. She was laughing and told me


Well if she still wants to go out with you then maybe you can win her back!

She said right in her text she feels neglected and that's why she wants to be the other man's princess.

OBVIOUSLY she is trying to get you jealous- wake up and smell the roses! Buy her roses!

Treat her better than the other guy and you can fix this.


----------



## GusPolinski

commonsenseisn't said:


> Hold on. Wait a minute. Am I correct in interpreting this as you letting her actually manipulate you into going out and have a "fun time"? You really did this? Are my reading comprehension skills lying to me?
> 
> I'm speechless.


I read this as something that happened _before_ D-Day.


----------



## TDSC60

stixx said:


> Well if she still wants to go out with you then maybe you can win her back!
> 
> She said right in her text she feels neglected and that's why she wants to be the other man's princess.
> 
> OBVIOUSLY she is trying to get you jealous- wake up and smell the roses! Buy her roses!
> 
> Treat her better than the other guy and you can fix this.


Win her back? What prize does he get for competing with OM? A cheating wife who does not love or respect him or their marriage. You are competing for a prize that is not worth having and will only cause pain and heartache in the future.


----------



## stixx

He doesn't sound like he's ready to give her up.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

stixx said:


> He doesn't sound like he's ready to give her up.




Yeah maybe only 2% of BS here on TAM are at first. Let him see who she is and he may well change his mind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## laststraw

ok, there always two sides to every story and I was going to say that from experience it is possible to be emotionally confused about how you feel about someone but it usually that persons fault for taking their marriage for granted and getting bored. I thought maybe she was trying to talk to you as her friend and that the advice to tell her either stop all contact with him or move out. Consider this... would you have known anything if she hadn't told you she was confused?? If not then maybe she originally did come to you as her best friend and there hadn't been any physical contact BUT to go out with you and be texting him WHILE out to dinner with you is just stringing you along while she has fun. Remind her of the old saying you can't eat your cake and have it too. Set your limits and stick to them. Try to mentally remove yourself from the situation especially with her (if have to, pretend talking about someone else's relationship), your lack of emotion to her and her actions will make her think... if it doesn't then do you really think she is the person you have thought she is -- that person would be worried or bothered that you didn't seem to care at all. Don't push don't pull just set your boundaries and requirements and let her decide. If it isn't you then just remember karma is out there (take time for you to heal and learn to enjoy life again) everything else will work out. Just set and stick to the boundaries that protect you.


----------



## straightshooter

stixx said:


> Well if she still wants to go out with you then maybe you can win her back!
> 
> She said right in her text she feels neglected and that's why she wants to be the other man's princess.
> 
> OBVIOUSLY she is trying to get you jealous- wake up and smell the roses! Buy her roses!
> 
> Treat her better than the other guy and you can fix this.


Right, best way to make your husband jealous is to bang other men and tell him you're doing it. Hope you're not charging for that advice


----------



## sokillme

GusPolinski said:


> I read this as something that happened _before_ D-Day.


Yeah I think he is saying this happened and he found out later, so she was lying to him at the time.


----------



## ddude23

That was before I found out about her affair. Also we didn't adopt because kids were always a "if it happens, it happens thing". She was really upset about being infertile, but then got over it. That was the end of it. 

I am doing better physically, I would say. She's at the affair partners house, been there since yesterday. I prefer when she's not here so that's fine by me. Putting on a smile for everyone. 

Our divorce has been spreading in person through gossip. Her family knows, so does the rest of mine. Mother in law called me and asked if this was true cause wife changed her story. First saying that's a lie/he's just a friend/ I didn't cheat. 

Mutual friends (mostly her friends) have offered me their condolences. It's sad really. The people she has been surrounded by in her life you would think would produce completely opposite results.

My mom has spread the info to my other two siblings. I mean I don't like everybody knowing my business. But people I havent talked to in years and relatives calling me up and checking on me is nice. 

I thought my support network was incredibly small, my wife had much more friends than me. Just people supporting me here and in real life has been more than I could imagine. I don't know how I would be getting through this without all of this support.


----------



## EleGirl

ddude23 said:


> That was before I found out about her affair. Also we didn't adopt because kids were always a "if it happens, it happens thing". She was really upset about being infertile, but then got over it. That was the end of it.
> 
> I am doing better physically, I would say. She's at the affair partners house, been there since yesterday. I prefer when she's not here so that's fine by me. Putting on a smile for everyone.
> 
> Our divorce has been spreading in person through gossip. Her family knows, so does the rest of mine. Mother in law called me and asked if this was true cause wife changed her story. First saying that's a lie/he's just a friend/ I didn't cheat.
> 
> Mutual friends (mostly her friends) have offered me their condolences. It's sad really. The people she has been surrounded by in her life you would think would produce completely opposite results.
> 
> My mom has spread the info to my other two siblings. I mean I don't like everybody knowing my business. But people I havent talked to in years and relatives calling me up and checking on me is nice.
> 
> I thought my support network was incredibly small, my wife had much more friends than me. Just people supporting me here and in real life has been more than I could imagine. I don't know how I would be getting through this without all of this support.


Very good to hear that you are getting a lot of support from family and friends. That's great!

Did you clarify to her mother that your wife is indeed cheating?

Has you sister be able to get the divorce papers to you as pro se?


----------



## straightshooter

ddude23 said:


> That was before I found out about her affair. Also we didn't adopt because kids were always a "if it happens, it happens thing". She was really upset about being infertile, but then got over it. That was the end of it.
> 
> I am doing better physically, I would say. She's at the affair partners house, been there since yesterday. I prefer when she's not here so that's fine by me. Putting on a smile for everyone.
> 
> Our divorce has been spreading in person through gossip. Her family knows, so does the rest of mine. Mother in law called me and asked if this was true cause wife changed her story. First saying that's a lie/he's just a friend/ I didn't cheat.
> 
> Mutual friends (mostly her friends) have offered me their condolences. It's sad really. The people she has been surrounded by in her life you would think would produce completely opposite results.
> 
> My mom has spread the info to my other two siblings. I mean I don't like everybody knowing my business. But people I havent talked to in years and relatives calling me up and checking on me is nice.
> 
> I thought my support network was incredibly small, my wife had much more friends than me. Just people supporting me here and in real life has been more than I could imagine. I don't know how I would be getting through this without all of this support.


Dude,

I hope you made it clear to her mother what the truth was? She has probably told her friends to offer these remarks because it's an effort to assuage her guilt by having her buddies try to show empathy. If they were her friends, discard them because it will only be pain shopping interacting with people who are yakking it up with her and OM when you are not around.

Understand something. The majority of relationships borne out of infidelity do not last. Not sure how old his kids are or his relationship with ex wife but if there is a clause in their divorce not allowing her to move in with him then it is not likely that they are best buddies. So wait until their is an contentious interaction between your wife and kids and other wife gets wind of it . Right now you have no idea what his ex wife knows or how she is reacting.

I hope you let that ridiculous suggestion that you should woo her back and that this was just some plan to get you jealous go in one ear and out the other. 

Just keep your sister working on that divorce and do not interact with her or get baited into her false compassion. The reason she confessed to you had nothing to do with compassion. It was done because she had benne banging him for four months and felt secure enough to tell you she wanted out.

Hang in there. The worst is over


----------



## stixx

straightshooter said:


> Right, best way to make your husband jealous is to bang other men and tell him you're doing it. Hope you're not charging for that advice


Why not, Lucy did.


----------



## curious234

with your attitude shown in yourabove post no wonder there are not many people in your circle. Looks like still you did not tell your Mother IL the whole story


----------



## sokillme

ddude23 said:


> Our divorce has been spreading in person through gossip. Her family knows, so does the rest of mine. Mother in law called me and asked if this was true cause wife changed her story. First saying that's a lie/he's just a friend/ I didn't cheat.


What a horrible person your wife is. Just keep moving on. There is better out there for you. When you do have that kid one day, send her a birth announcement.


----------



## VladDracul

ddude23 said:


> My mom has spread the info to my other two siblings. I mean I don't like everybody knowing my business. But people I havent talked to in years and relatives calling me up and checking on me is nice.
> 
> I thought my support network was incredibly small, my wife had much more friends than me. Just people supporting me here and in real life has been more than I could imagine. I don't know how I would be getting through this without all of this support.


See if they know any chicks that may be open to cooking you dinner. While the divorce is baking in the oven, you need to be collecting lots phone numbers. It may be just me but sharing my world with a new woman and listening to her sorrows is pretty darn mollifying. Beats the hell out of complaining to cousins and in-laws.


----------



## drifting on

ddude

Why is it you think your wife is denying to her family and friends that she didn't cheat? What do you think her excuse is that you are getting divorced? Your wife is doing damage control with friends and family just like she did with you. She still wants you to be friends after the divorce, what does that tell you? She is thinking that if she remains friends with you, you will still be there for her if the affair relationship breaks down. Which it has a good chance of happening. 

Ddude your wife is going to face consequences, she will not come out of this unscathed. You, however, have a far better outlook then she has. You are now able to find a woman that will love, cherish, and honor you. My wife and I took in our niece when she was fifteen. If I disciplined or reprimanded her I got the you aren't my father. Think your wife may get that? Your wife's OM child has a mother, your wife won't be her mother, and I doubt your wife even knows this. 

Going from zero kids to having a child is quite an adjustment. I know, I've done that, and they will butt heads. With my niece, yes it turned out for the better, but she was also family and I have known her her entire life. Your wife isn't walking into that situation, your wife is walking into a much different situation than I think she even knows about. 

Stick with your family, let your sister help, do what is best for you. Start changing yourself into a better person. You have a new lease on life, embrace it without ever looking back.


----------



## Melrose8888

drifting on said:


> ddude
> 
> Why is it you think your wife is denying to her family and friends that she didn't cheat? What do you think her excuse is that you are getting divorced? Your wife is doing damage control with friends and family just like she did with you. She still wants you to be friends after the divorce, what does that tell you? She is thinking that if she remains friends with you, you will still be there for her if the affair relationship breaks down. Which it has a good chance of happening.
> 
> Ddude your wife is going to face consequences, she will not come out of this unscathed. You, however, have a far better outlook then she has. You are now able to find a woman that will love, cherish, and honor you. My wife and I took in our niece when she was fifteen. If I disciplined or reprimanded her I got the you aren't my father. Think your wife may get that? Your wife's OM child has a mother, your wife won't be her mother, and I doubt your wife even knows this.
> 
> Going from zero kids to having a child is quite an adjustment. I know, I've done that, and they will butt heads. With my niece, yes it turned out for the better, but she was also family and I have known her her entire life. Your wife isn't walking into that situation, your wife is walking into a much different situation than I think she even knows about.
> 
> Stick with your family, let your sister help, do what is best for you. Start changing yourself into a better person. You have a new lease on life, embrace it without ever looking back.


This is why I would recommend that you attempt to contact the POSOMs exW, as you can become a united team to make their kids realise that your ex is the 'OW' and she walked out on her husband for their Dad. That isn't going to go down well with them, no matter what the age. This isn't about revenge, rather it is to make sure that, as others say, there are consequences.


----------



## VladDracul

Melrose8888 said:


> *This is why I would recommend that you attempt to contact the POSOMs exW, as you can become a united team *to make their kids realise that your ex is the 'OW' and she walked out on her husband for their Dad. That isn't going to go down well with them, no matter what the age. This isn't about revenge, rather it is to make sure that, as others say, there are consequences.


And if you find each other attractive, hit her up with, "lets get over them together".


----------



## Taxman

Ddude
Consequences are what people engaged in affairs fear most. You are already witnessing people turning their backs on your wife. Next is to expose to his ex. Let a whole bunch more people know that these two have been sleazing around each other. Women will avoid your wife as she is untrustworthy, and men of course will know she is "easy". That rep will follow her, and be unshakeable. Looks good on her.


----------



## Clemson

ddude23 said:


> I don't understand. I really don't. Everything was fine and good. If she says anything else she's lying. Before her affair started she would text me she couldn't wait I couldn't get home to see me. We were that kind of couple. Just genuinely enjoyed being with each other. Never spent nights away from one another and never went to bed mad. Also a decent amount of sex, not a dead bedroom.
> 
> Everything gone like that. So many memories, pictures, trips. She was the best thing in my life and my best friend. We were so close I just feel like I've lost apart of me. I guess I was/am co dependent. She is too, even moreso than me. When will I accept that she's gone?


Your marriage was exactly the same as mine. My wife was the same age even - 32. We were best friends and loved each other tremendously. Then one day it was like I was dead to her after the affair. Our divorce will be final in May and she has been out of the house for over a month. The first week was tough but I am in a pretty good place right now. You need to get this over with ASAP in order to start healing. It won't get better until she is completely out of your life. Get rid of all the photos and her stuff. It is crazy but I don;t remember the good times anymore because all I've known these last 4+ months has been pain. I am so ready to be done with my wife. Never thought I would say those words - even a month ago.


----------



## Clemson

ddude23 said:


> That was before I found out about her affair. Also we didn't adopt because kids were always a "if it happens, it happens thing". She was really upset about being infertile, but then got over it. That was the end of it.
> 
> I am doing better physically, I would say. She's at the affair partners house, been there since yesterday. I prefer when she's not here so that's fine by me. Putting on a smile for everyone.
> 
> Our divorce has been spreading in person through gossip. Her family knows, so does the rest of mine. Mother in law called me and asked if this was true cause wife changed her story. First saying that's a lie/he's just a friend/ I didn't cheat.
> 
> Mutual friends (mostly her friends) have offered me their condolences. It's sad really. The people she has been surrounded by in her life you would think would produce completely opposite results.
> 
> My mom has spread the info to my other two siblings. I mean I don't like everybody knowing my business. But people I havent talked to in years and relatives calling me up and checking on me is nice.
> 
> I thought my support network was incredibly small, my wife had much more friends than me. Just people supporting me here and in real life has been more than I could imagine. I don't know how I would be getting through this without all of this support.


I have said this about 5 times now but our situations are eerily similar. Please read my thread "wife is Choosing Other Man" and you will see the similarities. You did nothing wrong. Our wives have some emotional problem that makes them only want to be with people they are obsessed about and they will hop from person to person. My wife is being very friendly to me during the divorce proceedings - even signing a quitclaim deed on the house already. She has no support on her decision except from OM. You will reach a point that you are feeling okay except when you hear from her and you will want to avoid her as a result. I wanted to be married and was happy. But our wives don't want to be married to us and you can't live in the past. I am confident our wives will find out they made a huge mistake but I am done with her. You are a few years younger than me and trust me there are other good women out there and you are clearly loved by family and friends. It hurts like hell at first but it will get better my friend. To a person, her friends and family think my wife has lost her mind - yet here we are.


----------



## 3putt

Clemson said:


> I have said this about 5 times now but our situations are eerily similar. Please read my thread "wife is Choosing Other Man" and you will see the similarities. You did nothing wrong. Our wives have some emotional problem that makes them only want to be with people they are obsessed about and they will hop from person to person. My wife is being very friendly to me during the divorce proceedings - even signing a quitclaim deed on the house already. She has no support on her decision except from OM. You will reach a point that you are feeling okay except when you hear from her and you will want to avoid her as a result. I wanted to be married and was happy. But our wives don't want to be married to us and you can't live in the past. I am confident our wives will find out they made a huge mistake but I am done with her. You are a few years younger than me and trust me there are other good women out there and you are clearly loved by family and friends. It hurts like hell at first but it will get better my friend. To a person, her friends and family think my wife has lost her mind - yet here we are.


Reminds me of this.....










Helluva lot of truth to it.


----------



## eric1

One day you'll just see this as incredibly simple. This allowed you to see that woman for the horrid person she is. This allowed you to remove a cancer from your life before more of your life passed you by.

The whole experience of being married also isn't a waste. Don't look at others who have remained married and use it as a way to beat yourself up. You now have the benefit of an incredible amount of perspective that will make you a pretty kick ass catch for someone worthwhile of your love one day.


----------



## ddude23

Although moving on is so hard, I am beginning to understand she's not the same woman I fell in love with. Other than being amicable in the divorce and not taking much she seems to have no remorse. Yet she hangs out with her boyfriend frequently. Unfortunately we still live together, but are in the process of divorce. I have good days and bad days, had an awful night last night. Just thinking about all of our memories and how much of a joy she was to me, now thinking of her just brings me anger and sadness. 

Therapy is probably something I should try. It just feels like this doesn't phase her at all and that angers me. I am getting there slowly but surely. I wish I could just burn all our momentos but that probably would not look good. Why does she get to be happy while the loving and faithful one is still so hurt and upset?


----------



## Malaise

ddude23 said:


> Although moving on is so hard, I am beginning to understand she's not the same woman I fell in love with. Other than being amicable in the divorce and not taking much she seems to have no remorse. Yet she hangs out with her boyfriend frequently. Unfortunately we still live together, but are in the process of divorce. I have good days and bad days, had an awful night last night. Just thinking about all of our memories and how much of a joy she was to me, now thinking of her just brings me anger and sadness.
> 
> Therapy is probably something I should try. It just feels like this doesn't phase her at all and that angers me. I am getting there slowly but surely. I wish I could just burn all our momentos but that probably would not look good. *Why does she get to be happy while the loving and faithful one is still so hurt and upset*?


Because she lacks a conscience.

The only person she cares about is herself. Even OM is just a means to an end. If she tires of him she'll discard him as she did you. 

As long as SHE is happy.


----------



## bandit.45

Men can be total raging a-holes....that is time tested truth. 

But I tell you, there is nothing worse or more tragic in this universe than an unremorseful, cruel-hearted woman.


----------



## eric1

ddude23 said:


> Although moving on is so hard, I am beginning to understand she's not the same woman I fell in love with. Other than being amicable in the divorce and not taking much she seems to have no remorse. Yet she hangs out with her boyfriend frequently. Unfortunately we still live together, but are in the process of divorce. I have good days and bad days, had an awful night last night. Just thinking about all of our memories and how much of a joy she was to me, now thinking of her just brings me anger and sadness.
> 
> Therapy is probably something I should try.* It just feels like this doesn't phase her at al*l and that angers me. I am getting there slowly but surely. I wish I could just burn all our momentos but that probably would not look good. Why does she get to be happy while the loving and faithful one is still so hurt and upset?


Psychoanalyzing people isn't something you need to do. She's a raging ******* and now she's some pathetic loser's problem.

Point: ddude


----------



## CantBelieveThis

ddude23 said:


> Therapy is probably something I should try. It just feels like this doesn't phase her at all and that angers me. I am getting there slowly but surely. I wish I could just burn all our momentos but that probably would not look good. Why does she get to be happy while the loving and faithful one is still so hurt and upset?


Is ok man, those memories were real and are yours to keep, no one can take them away....unfortunately things come to an end and all we have is memories left of what once was. The person you knew as your wife is gone, try to see it that way and mourn that loss, forget who she is now, things will catch up with her eventually.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


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## cbnero

This is 100% true. Be glad you don't have children with her.

It's all perspective. I would ask you to consider this - if a tragedy like this were to strike you, when would you rather it happen? Now? Or 20 years from now?

**** happens. You've been given a gift. A chance to start over with a better life. 

I burned or tossed every photo and momento. Have no regrets.

Past is the past. You can't look forward if you're looking behind you all the time. Time now to look to the future. Get through a few hurdles and you're in the clear. You can do this. Stay positive.


----------



## straightshooter

ddude23 said:


> Although moving on is so hard, I am beginning to understand she's not the same woman I fell in love with. Other than being amicable in the divorce and not taking much she seems to have no remorse. Yet she hangs out with her boyfriend frequently. Unfortunately we still live together, but are in the process of divorce. I have good days and bad days, had an awful night last night. Just thinking about all of our memories and how much of a joy she was to me, now thinking of her just brings me anger and sadness.
> 
> Therapy is probably something I should try. It just feels like this doesn't phase her at all and that angers me. I am getting there slowly but surely. I wish I could just burn all our momentos but that probably would not look good. Why does she get to be happy while the loving and faithful one is still so hurt and upset?


Dude,

She "seems" to have no remorse because she does not. End of story.

She has herself convinced, and stop trying to figure out why, that she has met her new soulmate and that she is going to ride happily off into the sunset forever with him. You still do not know the details of his divorce that makes it impossible for him to let her move in, or if that is even the truth. so one of two things is going to happen

(1) her little fantasy life will continue and work out
(2) she will find herself a permanant mistress living in a smaller house with less money and you also never know how after some time how his kids will react to her when the newness wears off. Right now, there is a good chance they like this nice person ( to them).

Your job is to make sure that if her world blows up that you are not a sucker and take her back. And the best way for you to achieve that is to stop reminiscing about her great qualities and good times and to move on and become happy. That is your best revenge.

and you are once lucky dude that you do not have kids involved in this.


----------



## ddude23

It's hard for me to believe she lacks a conscience, it seems to me she feels like she's completely entitled to this affair. She was so kind before all of this, everyone loved/loves her. My birthday passed and my wife spent it with another man, it's so ****ed up I can't even put it into words, maybe borderline evil. I am now starting to be upset at how this will not affect future relationships with other women. I will probably never fully trust another partner again (I don't know if that is actually a good thing or not). I feel incredibly lonely, maybe I need to start looking for a FWB atleast, not another relationship though.


----------



## Malaise

con·science
ˈkän(t)SHəns/
noun
noun: conscience; plural noun: consciences
an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior.
"he had a guilty conscience about his desires"
synonyms:
sense of right and wrong, moral sense,


----------



## Ralph Bellamy

ddude23 said:


> It's hard for me to believe she lacks a conscience, it seems to me she feels like she's completely entitled to this affair. She was so kind before all of this, everyone loved/loves her. My birthday passed and my wife spent it with another man, it's so ****ed up I can't even put it into words, maybe borderline evil. I am now starting to be upset at how this will not affect future relationships with other women. I will probably never fully trust another partner again (I don't know if that is actually a good thing or not). I feel incredibly lonely, maybe I need to start looking for a FWB atleast, not another relationship though.


What are her friends like? If you want to know what someone is really like, look at how their best friends behave. That is most likely how your STBXW has always behaved when you weren't around.


----------



## eric1

ddude23 said:


> It's hard for me to believe she lacks a conscience, it seems to me she feels like she's completely entitled to this affair. *She was so kind before all of this, everyone loved/loves her*. My birthday passed and my wife spent it with another man, it's so ****ed up I can't even put it into words, maybe borderline evil. I am now starting to be upset at how this will not affect future relationships with other women. I will probably never fully trust another partner again (I don't know if that is actually a good thing or not). I feel incredibly lonely, maybe I need to start looking for a FWB atleast, not another relationship though.


You're describing either/or/and a narcissist or a sociopath. She's probably both.


----------



## eric1

BTW after you have the separation settled and you expose this far and wide, you'll see that sociopath come out.


----------



## bandit.45

She was just a good actress. Sorry my friend.


----------



## *Deidre*

I have heard from people who have gone through divorces, especially when cheating is involved, that the unbearable feelings of pain mirror the grief one experiences in mourning the death of a loved one. There are a few levels of the grieving process, and one is anger. When my grandmother died nearly two years ago, it was too soon for her, and I remember I was angry for a few months. Then, horrible sadness. From what I have heard, divorce is very much like this, especially in your situation OP, where you were blindsided by your wife's cheating. I am sorry you find yourself here, but in addition to therapy, maybe look at some books on the grief process, and you'll see that your feelings being all over the place right now, are very natural for what you're going through. So, feel what you feel, and don't turn away from it, because grief will come out in other ways if we don't deal with it. Hugs, and keeping you in my prayers.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

There are stories on these forums where women just go wacky for a period of time. They act conscience-free for a brief period of time, burning every bridge with their husband, stomping out every ember of hope he might have and laughing all the way. 

Then they come back to him weeks or months later, suddenly wracked with a level of guilt that seems beyond the realm of possibility. They beg for forgiveness, and cry 24/7. Want to have sex around the clock. "Waah... how could you just throw us away like that?!"

It's bizarre, frankly. Mid-life crisis to address some unsown wild oats? Maybe. Some primitive mating urge followed by a desire to achieve stability for the offspring they might have just conceived? Possibly. 

This story from SI is one of them: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=601131

No one knows what's going on in your wife's head. But I would advise to expect the unexpected.


----------



## ABHale

I would burn everything that I could. Pics, wedding album everything. I would take the gifts she has given me and trash them, then throw them away. 

Then I would beat the ship out of the POSOM.


----------



## ABHale

I said it once I have said it twice. If he is man enough to go after a married woman, he is man enough to take a azz beating. 

This is not for your wife's sake. It is for your own self respect.


----------



## stixx

ABHale said:


> I said it once I have said it twice. If he is man enough to go after a married woman, he is man enough to take a azz beating.
> 
> This is not for your wife's sake. It is for your own self respect.


I think you've said it more than twice.

Still doesn't make it right.


----------



## ABHale

stixx said:


> I think you've said it more than twice.
> 
> Still doesn't make it right.


Going after another mans wife isn't right either. But if more of those POS got the ship kicked out of them I believe some might start asking if it's worth the risk.


----------



## stixx

ABHale said:


> Going after another mans wife isn't right either. But if more of those POS got the ship kicked out of them I believe some might start asking if it's worth the risk.


There will always be more men, ready willing and able as long as the wife is willing to spread her legs for them.

It reminds me of the saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people".

"Men don't screw other guys wives, unless they say it's ok."


----------



## ABHale

stixx said:


> There will always be more men, ready willing and able as long as the wife is willing to spread her legs for them.
> 
> It reminds me of the saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people".
> 
> "Men don't screw other guys wives, unless they say it's ok."


This is true but I know for a fact that if you beat the POSOM unconscious, when he wakes up he won't even look at the WW again. 

People do kill poeple. They just use different means to do it. 

Drunks use there cars to do it more often then a gun is used. So why are we not bat ship crazy about DD's like snowflakes are about gun owners?


----------



## ABHale

ddude, do what you want with what I have posted. Even if it is just a daydream. I don't recommend doing this if you are not ok with it or never is a fight. I have been in a few when needed, never for what you are going through. 

Wish you the best ddude.


----------



## stixx

ABHale said:


> This is true but I know for a fact that if you beat the POSOM unconscious, when he wakes up he won't even look at the WW again


There will always be more.

A clip from a movie comes to mind and so does a song.

Cecilia, you're breaking my heart
You're shaking my confidence daily
Oh, Cecilia, I'm down on my knees
I'm begging you please to come home
Cecilia, you're breaking my heart
You're shaking my confidence daily
Oh, Cecilia, I'm down on my knees
I'm begging you please to come home
Come on home

Making love in the afternoon with Cecilia
Up in my bedroom (making love)
I got up to wash my face
When I come back to bed someone's taken my place
Cecilia, you're breaking my heart
You're shaking my confidence daily
Oh, Cecilia, I'm down on my knees
I'm begging you please to come home
Come on home

Then there's this:


----------



## Slow Hand

ABHale said:


> This is true but I know for a fact that if you beat the POSOM unconscious, when he wakes up he won't even look at the WW again.
> 
> People do kill poeple. They just use different means to do it.
> 
> Drunks use there cars to do it more often then a gun is used. So why are we not bat ship crazy about DD's like snowflakes are about gun owners?


I disagree. Why would anyone want to stay with a cheater anyway? The only reason I would entertain the idea of beating the OM up, is if I planned on staying with the POS wife, and I don't. He can have the cheater, more power to him, not worth going to jail or even the hospital for those scum bags.


----------



## Marc878

ddude23 said:


> It's hard for me to believe she lacks a conscience, it seems to me she feels like she's completely entitled to this affair. She was so kind before all of this, everyone loved/loves her. My birthday passed and my wife spent it with another man, it's so ****ed up I can't even put it into words, maybe borderline evil. I am now starting to be upset at how this will not affect future relationships with other women. I will probably never fully trust another partner again (I don't know if that is actually a good thing or not). I feel incredibly lonely, maybe I need to start looking for a FWB atleast, not another relationship though.


She's shown you. Yet you still don't want to believe her. Why?


----------



## ABHale

Slow Hand said:


> I disagree. Why would anyone want to stay with a cheater anyway? The only reason I would entertain the idea of beating the OM up, is if I planned on staying with the POS wife, and I don't. He can have the cheater, more power to him, not worth going to jail or even the hospital for those scum bags.


Just to show the POS he will not disrespect me. 

Can you not see that another man knowingly going after your wife is the highest form of disrespect there is for a man. Why do you thing guys have such a hard time with it. Even if the wife doesn't cheat the OM is calling/treating her as a *****. Why would any man let another get away with that. 

This is just the sissyfing of men in the USA. A kick in the ass would no a lot of men good.

Example: wife and I were in the checkout line at Walmart. They were selling popcorn for a charity so I went over a bought a bags. Turn around to go back over to my wife and there is a complete strange standing next to her saying something i could not hear. The look on my wife's face was enough to know she was uncomfortable with this guy. Came back over to her and asked the guy to back off out of my wife's personal space, he smiled at me. I knocked him on his azz, then stood between him and her. He got up and left the store.


----------



## ABHale

For the record. I would never stay with my wife if she cheated. Also, anything that showed we were a couple would be burned or trashed wedding album and all pictures of us together.


----------



## sokillme

ddude23 said:


> It's hard for me to believe she lacks a conscience, it seems to me she feels like she's completely entitled to this affair. She was so kind before all of this, everyone loved/loves her. My birthday passed and my wife spent it with another man, it's so ****ed up I can't even put it into words, maybe borderline evil. I am now starting to be upset at how this will not affect future relationships with other women. I will probably never fully trust another partner again (I don't know if that is actually a good thing or not). I feel incredibly lonely, maybe I need to start looking for a FWB atleast, not another relationship though.


You would be better served to believe that this is really who she is and the person you were with was an act. Maybe she could control her brokenness when everything was good or new and she was happy. Some of this is because you only saw her from the rose colored glasses of love. I can't tell you the number of times when I read a thread like this and by the 15th or so post you will notice that really the WW had some really poor character traits that someone who was not in love with her would be worried about and probably wouldn't marry. 

There may also be some things in you that allow you to over look them or maybe even be attracted to them. An example would be being a Knight In Shining Armor for instance. This is a recipe for ending up with a bad choice in a spouse. Fixing someone is not love it's codependency. Lots of people though possibly because of their background, or I think more likely because of low self esteem try to be a KISA. Not sure if that is you but it may be something you might want to look at. I think that really happens because the person who is the KISA seeks out someone who is suffering thinking if I help them maybe they will love me. They are not confident enough to believe they can win them just on their own merit so they hedge the bet by trying to be the person's savior. The problem is if a person needs saving they are very often broken. That is just one example I can think of. There are any multitude. That is what you really need to work through with this. 

Anyway I think you would be better served to understand that this is really the type of person your wife it. These are the most remorseful of WS yet they are very broken people. There is no romance in what they did just cold hard emotional abuse. I suggest you read some of the ones where they pine away for their affair partner. As you read it force yourself to accept that this is exactly the way your wife thinks. This is the kind of person she is. No one should be married to a person like that ever. That will kill your lingering adoration for her, and believe me you need to kill it to get better.


----------



## VladDracul

ABHale said:


> Can you not see that another man knowingly going after your wife is the highest form of disrespect there is for a man.



And what adds insult to injury is when you beat the crap out of the man your wife willingly laid down with, than he sues you for disability you caused and you have to write him checks for the rest of his life. Remember, another name for the person throwing the first punch is "the defendant".
[/I]

Remember to that just because she sees other guys doesn't, in and of itself, means she's broken, bi-polar, has personality disorder or whatever. It could me she just doesn't dig you anymore.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Marc878 said:


> She's shown you. Yet you still don't want to believe her. Why?


Because it would mean he has judged her character very poorly for a long time, and that's a blow to his self-esteem. It's very natural to avoid topics and beliefs that do that.


----------



## eric1

VladDracul said:


> And what adds insult to injury is when you beat the crap out of the man your wife willingly laid down with, than he sues you for disability you caused and you have to write him checks for the rest of his life. Remember, another name for the person throwing the first punch is _the defendent.
> _
> 
> Remember to that just because she sees other guys doesn't, in and of itself, means she's broken, bi-polar, has personality disorder or whatever. It could me she just does dig you anymore.




There are better ways than beating the crap out of someone. 

It's very enjoyable doing it. If more people gave a **** and did something about bad stuff happening in front of them the world would be a better place.


----------



## manfromlamancha

ddude, you need to remember what you have been told - she is NOT a good person and probably never was. What you were seeing was an act. Think of when she was with you on your anniversary - the two faces of her: smiling and loving with you (something you have seen since you met her), AND the cheating and texting and betraying with him AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME (the real her that was hidden from you all this time and had to come out now). That is the real her. Accept this. Be glad you found out while you are still young.

Sure she couldn't have children with you so she went after his - but thats not all. He went after her a$$ and she enjoyed it. Many women (and men) love being pursued but she forgot her marital vows in a heart beat. That is the real her.

She rewrote her marital history to justify all this. Didn't care about your feelings for a second. Cheated and lied about it to all. That is the real her.

OK once you accept the real her you will understand that you need to end this asap and not be thinking about what you had and how happy you once were. All an act (her real mindset was this is fine for now so I will play the part).

In terms of ending it, I hope you understood that the least painful, the quickest, the least expensive way was to let your sister draft the agreement and both of you sign it and send it in. Mediation was a distant second best option and getting individual lawyers was a third. Has your sister drafted the agreement yet ? If not, then why the hell not ???? Speed-of-light action is what is needed else the situation in your house will fester. Get this done and her out asap. Put the house on the market or whatever you need to do so that both things happen in parallel. And get yourself away from her. What is the current situation with regard to divorce ?


----------



## Hoosier

When I found out that my friend of 20 years was having an affair with my xwife, I wanted to kick his ass. The night I found out, I drove to his home, five blocks away, Ihad loaded my 12 gage with 00buck, and two magazines for my .40. I was going to "walk" down the sides of his truck with my 12, blowing holes the whole way. I decided that I would drive around the block to make sure no police (small town, 2 am) that saved my life. I realized that I would be in jail, costly to defend, time from family.....it/he wasnt worth it. So I promply drove home, hooked upto a trailer he had stored at my home, drove it out to the major rest area on the freeway, took off the license plate/registration, hung a FREE sign on it and drove away. My kids later had a intervention with me, and got me to promise no physical contact. To this day, (6 years later) I believe I should of kicked his ass, but I am at peace with it, as he still has her and I know it sucks! LOL


----------



## stixx

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> When I found out that my friend of 20 years was having an affair with my xwife, I wanted to kick his ass. The night I found out, I drove to his home, five blocks away, Ihad loaded my 12 gage with 00buck, and two magazines for my .40. I was going to "walk" down the sides of his truck with my 12, blowing holes the whole way. I decided that I would drive around the block to make sure no police (small town, 2 am) that saved my life.


This is how the Shawshank Redemption started.


----------



## sokillme

A lot of this revenge feeling also comes from a feeling you lost something of value. But once you really get the understanding that the person you were with has very little value when it comes to a lasting relationship then it's easier to let it go. What you lost is time. That sucks true, but the more time you spend thinking and this the more time you continue to lose. 

I get that this is not easy to do but your energy is best spent on training your mind to understand these things. The women you married gave you the best she had for a while but was never capable of giving you more. She has very little value when it comes to having a long term marriage and family like you wanted. In fact how this other man is using her is probably where her highest value is. (Brutal to say but it's true and logical). What I am saying is people who behave like your wife are good for flings and sex, not marriage. Unfortunately you wasted some time by picking her, but your life isn't over. You are 33 which is the beginning of a man's prime. You need to get over her as fast as possible so you stop wasting time, that means moving on and forgetting about her not looking for payback. 

The less time you spend on her the more time you have on improving yourself. The best thing to do is get in great shape, learn how to dress, practice conversation that includes active listening. Make as much money as possible. Take interest in things and learn about them, which can give you joy it will also give you things beside a spouse to have joy about. This protects you from being too dependent on anyone. It also has the positive side affect of having stuff to talk about and making you interesting and desirable. Read books about people, marriage and the human condition so you can gain wisdom and pick a better person. You will not have to look if you do all these things, you will have lots of choices and will find someone who is worth the time and effort.


----------



## drifting on

ABHale said:


> Going after another mans wife isn't right either. But if more of those POS got the ship kicked out of them I believe some might start asking if it's worth the risk.




Wholeheartedly agree!!! Right now for me I just make sure OM stays unemployed. OM helped to give me pain, I give OM pain in return, one hand washes the other.


----------



## drifting on

sokillme said:


> A lot of this revenge feeling also comes from a feeling you lost something of value. But once you really get the understanding that the person you were with has very little value when it comes to a lasting relationship then it's easier to let it go. What you lost is time. That sucks true, but the more time you spend thinking and this the more time you continue to lose.
> 
> I get that this is not easy to do but your energy is best spent on training your mind to understand these things. The women you married gave you the best she had for a while but was never capable of giving you more. She has very little value when it comes to having a long term marriage and family like you wanted. In fact how this other man is using her is probably where her highest value is. (Brutal to say but it's true and logical). What I am saying is people who behave like your wife are good for flings and sex, not marriage. Unfortunately you wasted some time by picking her, but your life isn't over. You are 33 which is the beginning of a man's prime. You need to get over her as fast as possible so you stop wasting time, that means moving on and forgetting about her not looking for payback.
> 
> The less time you spend on her the more time you have on improving yourself. The best thing to do is get in great shape, learn how to dress, practice conversation that includes active listening. Make as much money as possible. Take interest in things and learn about them, which can give you joy it will also give you things beside a spouse to have joy about. This protects you from being too dependent on anyone. It also has the positive side affect of having stuff to talk about and making you interesting and desirable. Read books about people, marriage and the human condition so you can gain wisdom and pick a better person. You will not have to look if you do all these things, you will have lots of choices and will find someone who is worth the time and effort.




Responding solely to your very first sentence, it has nothing to do with value, it has everything to do with **** on me I'll **** on you.


----------



## stixx

drifting on said:


> Wholeheartedly agree!!! Right now for me I just make sure OM stays unemployed. OM helped to give me pain, I give OM pain in return, one hand washes the other.


Just don't stay in the gutter for too long. You've got better things to do with your time and energy than to try to make some other person miserable because you think they slighted you.


----------



## drifting on

stixx said:


> Just don't stay in the gutter for too long. You've got better things to do with your time and energy than to try to make some other person miserable because you think they slighted you.





Only takes a few minutes to change the company name on the letter I send to any new employer of his. The cost of the stamp is money well spent in my book, and I won't do this very long, only for the rest of his natural life on earth.


----------



## sokillme

drifting on said:


> Responding solely to your very first sentence, it has nothing to do with value, it has everything to do with **** on me I'll **** on you.


Value is the wrong word. I get the idea of wanting revenge but really it probably could have been anyone. She was eventually going to cheat. The guy is an ******* no doubt but let him have her, he deserves her.


----------



## sokillme

drifting on said:


> Wholeheartedly agree!!! Right now for me I just make sure OM stays unemployed. OM helped to give me pain, I give OM pain in return, one hand washes the other.


Yet you stay with your wife, what she did to you was intimate and worse. I never get this mindset. All the anger is directed to the person who made you no vows.


----------



## badmemory

sokillme said:


> Yet you stay with your wife, what she did to you was intimate and worse. I never get this mindset. All the anger is directed to the person who made you no vows.


Think of it this way. If the BS makes the decision to R, then that anger against the CS has to be reconciled. It's natural for the BS to want to protect his love for the CS in that scenario. One way to do that is by transferring some or all of that anger to the AP.

I'm not saying it's logical; just human nature. I experienced it and and it continues to a degree after 5 years. But if you've read my story, you'd understand the POSOM I dealt with made it very easy to do.


----------



## Slow Hand

Or one can be like me, not having a clue, who the other men are and not giving two ****s about it. All I know is she put out to other men, covered her tracks and hid it very well. She never did confess and now my adult children view me as the bad guy, go figure.


----------



## sokillme

badmemory said:


> Think of it this way. If the BS makes the decision to R, then that anger against the CS has to be reconciled. It's natural for the BS to want to protect his love for the CS in that scenario. One way to do that is by transferring some or all of that anger to the AP.
> 
> I'm not saying it's logical; just human nature. I experienced it and and it continues to a degree after 5 years. But if you've read my story, the POSOM I dealt with made it very easy to do.


Yeah that makes sense. From an outside perspective though the WS is always morally worse then the AP. Not that either one is any great shakes. I wonder though does this kind of denial leads to not truly healing. Like do you really heal is you don't see your WS for who they truly were that includes the fact that they are much more culpable in your suffering?


----------



## sokillme

Slow Hand said:


> Or one can be like me, not having a clue, who the other men are and not giving two ****s about it. All I know is she put out to other men, covered her tracks and hid it very well. She never did confess and now my adult children view me as the bad guy, go figure.


Do your adult children know she cheated or did you cover for her?


----------



## drifting on

sokillme said:


> Yet you stay with your wife, what she did to you was intimate and worse. I never get this mindset. All the anger is directed to the person who made you no vows.




No, I said helped to give me pain, my wife has had consequences also.


----------



## Slow Hand

sokillme said:


> Do your adult children know she cheated or did you cover for her?


I told all three of them, none of them want to believe it though, they said I'm crazy and she would never do that and that I don't have undeniable proof. My daughters even told me they would keep me from seeing my grand children. Meh......


----------



## badmemory

sokillme said:


> Yeah that makes sense. From an outside perspective though the WS is always morally worse then the AP. Not that either one is any great shakes. *I wonder though does this kind of denial leads to not truly healing. Like do you really heal is you don't see your WS for who they truly were that includes the fact that they are much more culpable in your suffering?*


I don't want to threadjack so I'll just make a final comment on the subject.

If you make the decision to R, sometimes in order to get past your own thoughts - you have to rob Peter to pay Paul.


----------



## drifting on

sokillme said:


> Value is the wrong word. I get the idea of wanting revenge but really it probably could have been anyone. She was eventually going to cheat. The guy is an ******* no doubt but let him have her, he deserves her.




I doubt she would have cheated, that's one of the worst parts. She met a predator, pure and simple, but that does not even come close to an excuse. In the end she accepted his advances, he KNEW me, so to pursue my wife I will exact revenge. Whatever you want to call it, revenge, evening the score, getting payback, I have no problem with it. OM is scared, afraid I will put him to his community, his church, now that he knows I'll contact his employer. Mutual friends who have no idea what happened say he is almost like a hermit now.


----------



## stixx

sokillme said:


> Yet you stay with your wife, what she did to you was intimate and worse. I never get this mindset. All the anger is directed to the person who made you no vows.


Is this true???

You're plotting revenge for all eternity for your wive's affair partner and yet she still shares your bed?

That's so twisted


----------



## sokillme

drifting on said:


> I doubt she would have cheated, that's one of the worst parts. She met a predator, pure and simple, but that does not even come close to an excuse. In the end she accepted his advances, he KNEW me, so to pursue my wife I will exact revenge. Whatever you want to call it, revenge, evening the score, getting payback, I have no problem with it. OM is scared, afraid I will put him to his community, his church, now that he knows I'll contact his employer. Mutual friends who have no idea what happened say he is almost like a hermit now.


That post was directed at OP not you, but I will say this character is character. Every even mildly attractive women is hit on by men multiple times a day, doesn't matter if they are married or not. Some of them can seem very sincere. Unless you are in the very top of these categories there are always going to be people who make more money then you do, are better looking they you are. Are more exciting even if it is just because they are new. There are lots of men out there just looking for women with poor morals. No WS is a victim, seeing them as such leaves you vulnerable and them seeing themselves as such prevents true change.


----------



## eric1

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> When I found out that my friend of 20 years was having an affair with my xwife, I wanted to kick his ass. The night I found out, I drove to his home, five blocks away, Ihad loaded my 12 gage with 00buck, and two magazines for my .40. I was going to "walk" down the sides of his truck with my 12, blowing holes the whole way. I decided that I would drive around the block to make sure no police (small town, 2 am) that saved my life. I realized that I would be in jail, costly to defend, time from family.....it/he wasnt worth it. So I promply drove home, hooked upto a trailer he had stored at my home, drove it out to the major rest area on the freeway, took off the license plate/registration, hung a FREE sign on it and drove away. My kids later had a intervention with me, and got me to promise no physical contact. To this day, (6 years later) I believe I should of kicked his ass, but I am at peace with it, as he still has her and I know it sucks! LOL




Wait another 4 and then get him.


----------



## drifting on

stixx said:


> Is this true???
> 
> You're plotting revenge for all eternity for your wive's affair partner and yet she still shares your bed?
> 
> That's so twisted




I think this was directed at me since I did say I will stop after his natural life ends. Not twisted at all, I gave my wife consequences, she survived and is actually doing well. However I was raised that you don't run from a bully. Confront and conquer was instilled in me by both my father and grandfather. I'm probably of a different era then you, old school lives in me. My grandfather was a very cruel man, not one person who knew him crossed him, same as my father. I learned from them, I can be cruel too, but with me it's a choice. I don't mind going after the worst of the worst in the human race. I can also go to a party and be the funniest guy there. Just don't cross me, there's a lot of room between the laws. As for plotting, it's less then five minutes of time from my printer to the mailbox. For OM to go from a socialite to a hermit, I'm not loosing sleep over it.


----------



## ddude23

Good days and bad days and it seems to never be consistent. She came home an hour ago crying, got into a fight with the affair partner about something and they got into a screaming match on the phone. Doing my best to avoid her. I hate that I still care about seeing her hurt.


----------



## TaDor

She ain't crying about you.


----------



## Malaise

ddude23 said:


> Good days and bad days and it seems to never be consistent. She came home an hour ago crying, got into a fight with the affair partner about something and they got into a screaming match on the phone. Doing my best to avoid her. I hate that I still care about seeing her hurt.


It's nice you feel that way. It proves you are a decent person, unlike your W.

But don't be tempted to ride to the rescue if/when everything falls apart for her. She fired you from that job.


----------



## straightshooter

ddude23 said:


> Good days and bad days and it seems to never be consistent. She came home an hour ago crying, got into a fight with the affair partner about something and they got into a screaming match on the phone. Doing my best to avoid her. I hate that I still care about seeing her hurt.


For heavens sake, it's time for you to stop this. This woman has not only had an affair. She has flaunted it in your face, has been banging him for six months now, was more than willing to divorce you but mooch off you in your house, and has been banging him on your anniversary and birthday!,, 

And you're worried about her feelings after a fight with her boyfriend. It's obvious there is trouble in her paradise and some of us told you that might occur. And it appears that unless you stop this crap you will be waiting as Plan B . And you know what will happen?.. they will break up, you will be a sap, and then they will make up and you will rinse and repeat this. If you believe this woman gives a shot for you you better get some serious therapy.

Now instead of telling us about her love problems, you need to be telling us about how the divorce is proceeding. Sorry for the 2x4 but you are past the point of this crap. Her relationship problems are not yours and you need to get that through your head.


----------



## eric1

ddude23 said:


> Good days and bad days and it seems to never be consistent. She came home an hour ago crying, got into a fight with the affair partner about something and they got into a screaming match on the phone. Doing my best to avoid her. I hate that I still care about seeing her hurt.


When you are feeling down on yourself and asking "why does she get to ride off into the sunset" remember this. It's only going to get worse for her. Particularly given her affair partner is either some pathetic loser who can't do better than some barren housewife or that he was just using that naive dolt for an easy piece of pathetic sperm receptacle. 

You'll be free of that sociopath and free to meet someone more in line with how you feel that you should live life.

If she starts crying near you then go somewhere else. Not your monkies, not your circus.


----------



## drifting on

Ddude

I think it's natural to feel the way you do, to still care even after she took a dump on you. Your feelings will get to be less for her each day, it's not overnight that your feelings stop. Besides, you are a rational person, a person who cares about other people. To me that's good.

Perfect time for doing the 180 hardcore though. Let her see that all her fantasy was just fantasy. Let her see that by leaving your marriage that safety net has been removed. Let her fall, let her deal with it by herself, she thinks that OM should do everything she wants because she gave up her marriage for him. She's finding that to not be the case, and if you 180, she will find that she treated you in a very cruel manner.


----------



## bandit.45

I think we're getting played here. I'm not buying any of this anymore.


----------



## ddude23

It was over something about why she can't live there or the custody thing. Not my business. The good news is that she's most likely going to go live with her mom. Me caring and me helping are two completely different animals. She's made it clear she doesn't want to reconcile so yep. Atleast she was amicable in the agreement so far and splitting assets. 

And bandit I frankly don't care if you believe this fiasco is real or not. I came here looking for help because my support system is small and I don't have many friends which is embarrassing to admit. I like to vent here, makes this process easier.


----------



## GusPolinski

Keep ignoring her, @ddude23.

Print out a copy of the 180 and read it several times daily; learn it, live it, love it. Before too long, you'll begin to more fully detach.

Start redecorating the house this weekend. Repaint the living room to start.


----------



## stixx

ddude23 said:


> And bandit I frankly don't care if you believe this fiasco is real or not. I came here looking for help because my support system is small and I don't have many friends which is embarrassing to admit. I like to vent here, makes this process easier.


Ignore the naysayers. There's a reason people aren't supposed to openly doubt stories, it's hurtful, disruptive, and takes the topic off course.

I BELIEVE you. 

I think it's pathetic but real.


----------



## jlg07

bandit.45 said:


> Men can be total raging a-holes....that is time tested truth.
> 
> But I tell you, there is nothing worse or more tragic in this universe than an unremorseful, cruel-hearted woman.


based on what I've read on this site WWS seem to be particularly cruel to their BS. Btw I am NOT trying to minimize the pain that WHS cause at all.


----------



## straightshooter

ddude23 said:


> It was over something about why she can't live there or the custody thing. Not my business. The good news is that she's most likely going to go live with her mom. Me caring and me helping are two completely different animals. She's made it clear she doesn't want to reconcile so yep. Atleast she was amicable in the agreement so far and splitting assets.
> 
> And bandit I frankly don't care if you believe this fiasco is real or not. I came here looking for help because my support system is small and I don't have many friends which is embarrassing to admit. I like to vent here, makes this process easier.


Dude,

Its more than that. She knew about the custody thing when this all first broke on you. She's made it clear she does not want to reconcile??? Of course not. But when she gets to mommys and has some more arguments with him or his kids or his ex wife, don't ypu be surprised if you get some "fishing" communication out of the blue trying to start a dialogue. You have no kids. You need to tell her when she walks out that door that you are done communicating with her and that she is never to talk to you or contact you again. She is going to try to "lets be friends" thing again so that in her delusional mind she has the ability to try to lure you back in as a safety valve.

Once you get that agreement signed and over you need to jettison her completely and for good.


----------



## eric1

ddude23 said:


> *It was over something about why she can't live there or the custody thing.* Not my business. The good news is that she's most likely going to go live with her mom. Me caring and me helping are two completely different animals. She's made it clear she doesn't want to reconcile so yep. Atleast she was amicable in the agreement so far and splitting assets.
> 
> And bandit I frankly don't care if you believe this fiasco is real or not. I came here looking for help because my support system is small and I don't have many friends which is embarrassing to admit. I like to vent here, makes this process easier.


It's because he doesn't want her living there.

You should feel the same way. 

I'm damn glad for your sake she doesn't want reconciliation. It's about the only non-sociopathic thing that she has done in the past three months.

You need to find out from your lawyer asap when you can vacate that house. Go live on the street if you can't afford a house. Atleast your soul will be clean.


----------



## GusPolinski

OM may have had some sort of "no overnight guests" clause in his divorce decree.

Or maybe he doesn't want his _main_ squeeze to find out about his side piece.

But who cares?

Keep on keepin' on, @ddude23.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

sokillme said:


> Value is the wrong word. I get the idea of wanting revenge but really it probably could have been anyone. She was eventually going to cheat. The guy is an ******* no doubt but let him have her, he deserves her.


No, I think the word value works. But this woman never had value, she was just a good forgery. But he valued the relationship and future he believed he had, and it's natural to be angry about that loss for a while as part of his recovery.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

ddude23 said:


> Good days and bad days and it seems to never be consistent. She came home an hour ago crying, got into a fight with the affair partner about something and they got into a screaming match on the phone. Doing my best to avoid her. I hate that I still care about seeing her hurt.


You care because you are a good person. For a compassionate human being it's hard to just turn off feelings.

But if there's trouble in her paradise, do your best to accelerate the legal extrication process, or it will get much harder once he dumps her. She'll either be looking to sucker you back in again, or suddenly start fighting for her fair share and everything else due to her sense of entitlement.


----------



## sokillme

Hopeful Cynic said:


> No, I think the word value works. But this woman never had value, she was just a good forgery. But he valued the relationship and future he believed he had, and it's natural to be angry about that loss for a while as part of his recovery.


I hope I don't sound like I am telling him that he is wrong to feel bad. Believe me I get it. That is why I get so angry about it. For me, doing this to another human being is right below rape. It's like emotional rape. I have read posts where the BS say the pain is like losing a child. 

I just think he needs to focus on the facts because the sooner he accepts that he was duped the sooner he will be able to recover. It's easier to recover from not getting money that you thought you had, then money that was actually robbed from you. Both suck though. In this way, like you say he never had the relationship he thought he had. The best thing is, he is 34 and he has lots of time to recover and have exactly the life he thought he would, even better.


----------



## dubsey

GusPolinski said:


> OM may have had some sort of "no overnight guests" clause in his divorce decree.
> 
> Or maybe he doesn't want his _main_ squeeze to find out about his side piece.
> 
> But who cares?
> 
> Keep on keepin' on, @ddude23.


Or it would materially alter his child support and/or alimony agreement.


----------



## Satya

Ignore her tears. 

It's just her going into predictable crash & burn mode. 

Carry on.


----------



## eric1

GusPolinski said:


> *OM may have had some sort of "no overnight guests" clause in his divorce decree.*
> 
> Or maybe he doesn't want his _main_ squeeze to find out about his side piece.
> 
> But who cares?
> 
> Keep on keepin' on, @ddude23.


I thought about that too, but then why would she be pissed at him about it? There would legally be nothing for him to do. Something must have gotten her riled up.

I agree with you, who cares. Well, I kind of care. Ddude needs to be looking past all of this, but as an observer I admittedly do root for bad things to happen to bad people.


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## mickybill

eric1 said:


> I thought about that too, but then why would she be pissed at him about it? There would legally be nothing for him to do. Something must have gotten her riled up.


She is probaly pissed at everyone, OM because he likes the sex but doesn't really want her hanging around full time, her mom is probably every day letting her know that she made a big effing mistake and at ddude because he is doing the 180.:crying:

Keep it up ddude.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

ddude23 said:


> I wish I could just burn all our momentos but that probably would not look good. Why does she get to be happy while the loving and faithful one is still so hurt and upset?


Go ahead and burn the mementos! Take a picture. I, shortly after DDay, took our heirloom bed to my farm built a bonfire and tossed the bed,mattress, and linens into the fire. I took a picture and sent it to her. Made me feel much better.


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## 10th Engineer Harrison

ddude23 said:


> It was over something about why she can't live there or the custody thing. Not my business. The good news is that she's most likely going to go live with her mom. Me caring and me helping are two completely different animals.


I gotta 'fess out. If this were my sitch, I'd be so tempted to HELP HER MOVE. And right now! Be all friendly while you're doing it, then go completely dark once she's out.

-10th Engineer Harrison.


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## musicftw07

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> ddude23 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I could just burn all our momentos but that probably would not look good. Why does she get to be happy while the loving and faithful one is still so hurt and upset?
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead and burn the mementos! Take a picture. I, shortly after DDay, took our heirloom bed to my farm built a bonfire and tossed the bed,mattress, and linens into the fire. I took a picture and sent it to her. Made me feel much better.
Click to expand...

This may be one of the most epic things I've ever heard.


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## sokillme

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Go ahead and burn the mementos! Take a picture. I, shortly after DDay, took our heirloom bed to my farm built a bonfire and tossed the bed,mattress, and linens into the fire. I took a picture and sent it to her. Made me feel much better.


Burn it if it makes you feel better but sending a picture to her only works if she cares if she doesn't it makes you look weak. Think about it, nothing says I am over you better then spending a few hours collecting mementos and then taking the time to burn while taking pictures to send them to her. /s

Better to ghost, that tells her you got over her quick because she wasn't worth much. When she gets home tell her you are going out then get dressed up leave. Let her think you have moved on and don't give a ****. Much more effective and better for you. 

Cheaters see it as a victory if you are still pining away for them. Then she can hold her head up high having two men. Cheaters by nature are insecure it's part of why they cheat. Letting them see that they really were not worth crying over much just feeds into that. That is how you get back. 

OP start going out and having fun, even if you aren't


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## sokillme

10th Engineer Harrison said:


> I gotta 'fess out. If this were my sitch, I'd be so tempted to HELP HER MOVE. And right now! Be all friendly while you're doing it, then go completely dark once she's out.
> 
> -10th Engineer Harrison.


This is better. Cold hearted, you are trash, nothing to be sad about and I am eager to be rid of you. That is how you should play it.

Better yet, have a kid one day and have your new wife send your ex and her mother a birth announcement. That would be cold hearted. 

Dude your soon to be ex is a narcissist, and a very cruel one at that. The only way she gets away with being like that is because she keeps it hidden. She won't have a happy life, she is going to spend her life going from one broken relationship to another. Generally she can't be fixed either. She won't get to have long close relationships because narcissists end up destroying themselves. She will have very shallow ones, like this pathetic one with a man who pimped out his kids to get her to **** him. You don't see it now, but you will. You will be happy to be rid of her. 

Just hold on until you get her out of the house. Your life will get better. I promises.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

musicftw07 said:


> This may be one of the most epic things I've ever heard.


Looking back, I still find it pretty damn funny. However, it was an expensive stunt but well worth it for pure shock value.
Remember "she who does not wish to be f'd with, does not f over.>

I am in R and my wife still thinks that was over the top, but I do not. Got my message across crystal f clear!:smile2:


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## Malaise

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Looking back, I still find it pretty damn funny. However, it was an expensive stunt but well worth it for pure shock value.
> Remember "she who does not wish to be f'd with, does not f over.>
> 
> I am in R and my wife still thinks that was over the top, but I do not. Got my message across crystal f clear!:smile2:


Does she understand the significance of it?


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Malaise said:


> Does she understand the significance of it?


Absolutely she does. She was upset as the bed came over with my great grandparents from Germany, and was hand carved.
She also knows how angry she made me by her actions. I was done until I cooled off. However, my message was clear "We are over !:wink2:


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## Malaise

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Absolutely she does. She was upset as the bed came over with my great grandparents from Germany, and was hand carved.
> She also knows how angry she made me by her actions. I was done until I cooled off. However, my message was clear "We are over !:wink2:


Your message was expensive.

A cheap gesture is just that, cheap. And doesn't convey your passion.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

According to my DD the bed was worth $10-12k. So I guess one would not consider that cheap. I would burn the damn thing all over very again to emphasize my anger. Point made.


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## sokillme

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> I am in R and my wife still thinks that was over the top, but I do not. Got my message across crystal f clear!:smile2:


Yeah you should tell her sleeping with the other man was over the top. Wayward thinking, even when they are contrite I will never understand it. I don't think they ever truly get it. Even the best don't understand the pain they cause, it's why they can do it.


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## Malaise

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> According to my DD the bed was worth $10-12k. So I guess one would not consider that cheap. I would burn the damn thing all over very again to emphasize my anger. Point made.


I wouldn't want to sleep on it again either, knowing what you know.


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## drifting on

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Looking back, I still find it pretty damn funny. However, it was an expensive stunt but well worth it for pure shock value.
> Remember "she who does not wish to be f'd with, does not f over.>
> 
> I am in R and my wife still thinks that was over the top, but I do not. Got my message across crystal f clear!:smile2:




LH this made me laugh out loud. Thanks for the chuckle and smile on my face today. Next time your wife says its over the top, tell her an affair is over the top. By the way, thank you for your service, I have good friends in both the army and marines.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

drifting on said:


> Lonely husband 42301 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking back, I still find it pretty damn funny. However, it was an expensive stunt but well worth it for pure shock value.
> Remember "she who does not wish to be f'd with, does not f over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am in R and my wife still thinks that was over the top, but I do not. Got my message across crystal f clear!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LH this made me laugh out loud. Thanks for the chuckle and smile on my face today. Next time your wife says its over the top, tell her an affair is over the top. By the way, thank you for your service, I have good friends in both the army and marines.
Click to expand...

She loved that bed. I would have like to have seen her face when I texted the picture of the bed.

I did tell her something of the sort regarding the bed in relation to her affair but in a tad bit more harsh manner. Let's say I used "Marine language" to emphasize my action and why.


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## SunCMars

eric1 said:


> Wait another 4 and then get him.



A man after my......Uh, a man who I agree with.

I have said this.....I have said this.....I have said.....nothing!

Think it. say nothing...ever.


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## SunCMars

ddude23 said:


> Although moving on is so hard, I am beginning to understand she's not the same woman I fell in love with. Other than being amicable in the divorce and not taking much she seems to have no remorse. Yet she hangs out with her boyfriend frequently. Unfortunately we still live together, but are in the process of divorce. I have good days and bad days, had an awful night last night. Just thinking about all of our memories and how much of a joy she was to me, now thinking of her just brings me anger and sadness.
> 
> *Therapy is probably something I should try. *It just feels like this doesn't phase her at all and that angers me. I am getting there slowly but surely. I wish I could just burn all our momentos but that probably would not look good. Why does she get to be happy while the loving and faithful one is still so hurt and upset?


F*** therapy.

The only therapy I would need is firing a high powered rifle, sans scope, at watermelons at 300 yards.


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## TheTruthHurts

Wow. I feel like this is a ladies cluck fest. I guess I'm old school and not that emotional. Dump the b already


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Popcorn2015

Formally known as Hoosier said:


> So I promply drove home, hooked upto a trailer he had stored at my home, drove it out to the major rest area on the freeway, took off the license plate/registration, hung a FREE sign on it and drove away.


That's awesome.

The "just beat him up" advice is stupid in today's legal climate.


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## TheTruthHurts

Popcorn2015 said:


> That's awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> The "just beat him up" advice is stupid in today's legal climate.




Well I get it. But it's matter of priorities. If I ran into the guy that would be one thing. If I had to go out of my way to track him down that would be different. But I would definitely f with him - either really or mentally


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CantBelieveThis

TheTruthHurts said:


> Well I get it. But it's matter of priorities. If I ran into the guy that would be one thing. If I had to go out of my way to track him down that would be different. But I would definitely f with him - either really or mentally
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


People always assume they can give AP a good beating, when in reality is a 50/50 chance, BS gets the ass beating instead, or shot dead....goes both ways guys.....


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## MyRevelation

CantBelieveThis said:


> People always assume they can give AP a good beating, when in reality is a 50/50 chance, BS gets the ass beating instead, or shot dead....goes both ways guys.....


Possibly ... and maybe I'm being naive considering what each of us has experienced, but I still hold onto and place value in concepts like right, wrong, honor, integrity, etc. Now clearly, not everyone else does, which doesn't mean for those of us that do, there may be worse things than an "ass beating" ... like not being able to look at yourself in the mirror. A lot depends on the personalities and the circumstances.

However, what you say is definitely true. I can think of a several IRL scenarios in my small town where the BH physically confronted the OM, and in only one of those cases did the OM prevail, but that one did cost the BH his life and the OM was never charged ... justifiable homicide. The moral of that story is don't give the OM a head's up you're coming to kick his ass, and then show up, kick in his door armed only with a baseball bat, when OM was in his own home and armed with a shotgun.


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## CantBelieveThis

MyRevelation said:


> but that one did cost the BH his life and the OM was never charged ... justifiable homicide. .


That so effed up I don't even know what to say.....there has to be some justice for that poor BH....somewhere, somehow

My W xAP was a convicted felon out on bond for armed robbery, thou she didn't know this during her month long A. 
I decided not to pursue him in a confrontation, after all he did send me text messages about going NC with my W and did apologize, said he felt horrible and that I should give her a chance. LOL, wat a nice guy for someone that hit a 7/11 to steal a few bucks.....


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## TheTruthHurts

CantBelieveThis said:


> People always assume they can give AP a good beating, when in reality is a 50/50 chance, BS gets the ass beating instead, or shot dead....goes both ways guys.....




Physical responses are only an option. I'm much more the type of guy who would understand what makes a guy tick - and focus on that. Car, wife, job, money, respect, etc. Put that in jeopardy. Plus the action isn't the thing - it's the possibility and threat of it that provides the most payback.

As lonely husband pointed out when he ran into the OM at a gas station (if memory serves) - the guy knows LH knows and is out there - LH made a lightly veiled threat - so the OM now is looking over his shoulder...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eric1

How's is going ddude?


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

TheTruthHurts said:


> Physical responses are only an option. I'm much more the type of guy who would understand what makes a guy tick - and focus on that. Car, wife, job, money, respect, etc. Put that in jeopardy. Plus the action isn't the thing - it's the possibility and threat of it that provides the most payback.
> 
> As lonely husband pointed out when he ran into the OM at a gas station (if memory serves) - the guy knows LH knows and is out there - LH omade a lightly veiled threat - so the OM now is looking over his shoulder...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


TH I told POSOM that I would obtain my revenge I said succinctly " remember it is not IF, but when".>
Dude23, I would offer you same advice. Mess with POSOMs psyche as well as POSStbxw. You will enjoy it.


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## Evinrude58

CantBelieveThis said:


> That so effed up I don't even know what to say.....there has to be some justice for that poor BH....somewhere, somehow
> 
> My W xAP was a convicted felon out on bond for armed robbery, thou she didn't know this during her month long A.
> I decided not to pursue him in a confrontation, after all he did send me text messages about going NC with my W and did apologize, said he felt horrible and that I should give her a chance. LOL, wat a nice guy for someone that hit a 7/11 to steal a few bucks.....


Wow.


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## sokillme

MyRevelation said:


> Possibly ... and maybe I'm being naive considering what each of us has experienced, but I still hold onto and place value in concepts like right, wrong, honor, integrity, etc. Now clearly, not everyone else does, which doesn't mean for those of us that do, there may be worse things than an "ass beating" ... like not being able to look at yourself in the mirror. A lot depends on the personalities and the circumstances.
> 
> However, what you say is definitely true. I can think of a several IRL scenarios in my small town where the BH physically confronted the OM, and in only one of those cases did the OM prevail, but that one did cost the BH his life and the OM was never charged ... justifiable homicide. The moral of that story is don't give the OM a head's up you're coming to kick his ass, and then show up, kick in his door armed only with a baseball bat, when OM was in his own home and armed with a shotgun.


Them I'm sure he didn't stay with his cheating wife right? I love it when people say I believe in concepts of right and wrong, honor, and then proceed to stay with the person who made a vow to them broke it while at the same time wanting to kill the AP. Sorry no you don't. What the wife did is a lot worse.

This guy still holds onto and place value in concepts like right, wrong, honor, integrity, etc.


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## MyRevelation

sokillme said:


> Them I'm sure he didn't stay with his cheating wife right? I love it when people say I believe in concepts of right and wrong, honor, and then proceed to stay with the person who made a vow to them broke it while at the same time wanting to kill the AP. Sorry no you don't. What the wife did is a lot worse.
> 
> This guy still holds onto and place value in concepts like right, wrong, honor, integrity, etc.


Yanno ... I used to generally agree with your perspective, but your style has gotten progressively more antagonistic and your position less defensible. You are now coming across as more of a "know it all", when in fact, you have little if any first hand point of reference to support your one dimensional POV. 

Even though I am in R, I routinely advocate that D is the proper response to an A in most, but not necessarily all, cases and I do feel that my particular fact set and circumstances fits within that criteria. I'll also make note (that you are likely unaware of) that I was cheated on in a previous M and proceeded straight to D and never looked back, but that was with a completely different WW, with a completely different set of circumstances. However, just because I made a different choice this time, in NO WAY is indicative of the "wrongness" of that choice or negatively affects my own honor. How exactly is a BH that decides to R acting dishonorably? As long as he's able to look himself in the mirror and not feel shame, then I contend, his honor remains intact. 

I'm guessing that I'm quite a bit older and have more life experiences than you, and I've learned that you simply can't put individual people in "all or never" categories. You seem to have all the stark black and white answers, while my life experiences tend to color my world in varying shades of grey. I remember when I was about 30 having a conversation with my Dad, where I told him (tongue in cheek) how much smarter he'd gotten in the last 10 years. I had finally reached the age/maturity of not knowing everything. Hopefully, at some point, you'll have a similar epiphany.

In addition, regarding the Space Ghost link ... it is widely speculated that Space Ghost was a troll and if, in fact, that is the case, there would definitely be no honor in that.


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## drifting on

I am a man who places value in right, wrong, and honor. My wife who had an affair, lost the value of right, wrong, and honor. My wife's affair did not decrease the value I hold in any of these three. In fact my wife's affair has no bearing on any of these three. My wife's affair was on her, her as a human being, which certainly has no affect on my honor. My decision to reconcile was made based upon what was best for me, period. My honor, in my opinion, is not affected by my wife's affair. Instead my honor remains the same, as do my values. 

Beliefs I had lost, but at no time did my value of right or wrong decrease. With my job, I have seen many people lose their honor or value of right and wrong. If a man loses his job and his wife and kids are home starving, is it wrong if he steals a loaf of bread? Yes, it is wrong regardless of your reason. But if that man were one who had value in right, wrong, and honor, he will be a lessened man regardless if caught or punished for his crime. Does stealing a loaf of bread compare in any way to infidelity? No, not in the least, it is a much less act then infidelity, but if shows what a wayward may feel when they are truly remorseful. They know they have lessened themselves, they will be affected, but in no way does their actions and choices bear any semblance to the betrayeds values in right, wrong, or honor. 

I'm reminded of the time my therapist told me that those who think in black and white are in some way wounded. That black and white thinking is a form of protection. @sokillme, you have been wounded in your life, understandably, and in some ways you may carry some of that pain with you. With respect for you I am saying, that while you have been hurt the scar is still there and possibly painful still at times. And while I have and agree with most of your posts, I think in some ways you are still healing yourself. I wish you nothing but the best.


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## sokillme

MyRevelation said:


> Yanno ... I used to generally agree with your perspective, but your style has gotten progressively more antagonistic and your position less defensible. You are now coming across as more of a "know it all", when in fact, you have little if any first hand point of reference to support your one dimensional POV.
> 
> Even though I am in R, I routinely advocate that D is the proper response to an A in most, but not necessarily all, cases and I do feel that my particular fact set and circumstances fits within that criteria. I'll also make note (that you are likely unaware of) that I was cheated on in a previous M and proceeded straight to D and never looked back, but that was with a completely different WW, with a completely different set of circumstances. However, just because I made a different choice this time, in NO WAY is indicative of the "wrongness" of that choice or negatively affects my own honor. How exactly is a BH that decides to R acting dishonorably? As long as he's able to look himself in the mirror and not feel shame, then I contend, his honor remains intact.
> 
> I'm guessing that I'm quite a bit older and have more life experiences than you, and I've learned that you simply can't put individual people in "all or never" categories. You seem to have all the stark black and white answers, while my life experiences tend to color my world in varying shades of grey. I remember when I was about 30 having a conversation with my Dad, where I told him (tongue in cheek) how much smarter he'd gotten in the last 10 years. I had finally reached the age/maturity of not knowing everything. Hopefully, at some point, you'll have a similar epiphany.
> 
> In addition, regarding the Space Ghost link ... it is widely speculated that Space Ghost was a troll and if, in fact, that is the case, there would definitely be no honor in that.


My point was, don't advocate for going and beating up or even more so killing the AP and act like that is an honorably thing and about right and wrong. It's really just about revenge. If you really feel that way about punishing right and wrong then how can you stay with your WS. What they did was just as wrong if not more so.

That was my only point. I see lots of BS put all of the anger they have for the affair on the AP and to me that is a form of rug sweeping and doesn't lead to healing. One of the most important things for healing is having clarity that your WS was much more responsible to your well being then the AP. 

If all you care about is right and wrong then you wouldn't have stayed.

Personally I think there can be great honor in staying for the right reasons. I think I called someone here on this thread who stayed honorable. I believe I have called you DO honorable. 

HOWEVER, I can see how my title of the link could be insulting. I apologize. Maybe I should have said -

"If all you care about is write and wrong and justice then you should act like this guy, not go beat up the AP".

Again I am sorry if that seemed insulting.

Frankly I don't think you should care about justice if you R, because you will not get any. I don't think any of you would deny that. But the truth is there isn't any justice if you go. Life is unjust. 

Besides all that I am not sure if I posted this before or after Qualty started posting stuff about me and my wife's sex life last night, but I was pissed at that point. Meacolpa.


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## MyRevelation

sokillme said:


> My point was, don't advocate for going and beating up or even more so killing the AP and act like that is an honorably thing and about right and wrong. It's really just about revenge. If you really feel that way about punishing right and wrong then how can you stay with your WS. What they did was just as wrong if not more so.
> 
> That was my only point. I see lots of BS put all of the anger they have for the affair on the AP and to me that is a form of rug sweeping and doesn't lead to healing. One of the most important things for healing is having clarity that your WS was much more responsible to your well being then the AP.
> 
> If all you care about is right and wrong then you wouldn't have stayed.


Originally, I had a long response typed out, but then I read your post again (or at least what it was before you modified it), and deleted it. It became apparent, especially with your last sentence, that your purpose is not to offer advice/input, but to bait others into an argument based on nothing but your own twisted pretzel logic.

From my perspective, your views on this subject are not credible. You'll need to walk in the shoes of another, before you have the right to tell him how much his feet hurt.


----------



## sokillme

MyRevelation said:


> Originally, I had a long response typed out, but then I read your post again (or at least what it was before you modified it), and deleted it. It became apparent, especially with your last sentence, that your purpose is not to offer advice/input, but to bait others into an argument based on nothing but your own twisted pretzel logic.
> 
> From my perspective, your views on this subject are not credible. You'll need to walk in the shoes of another, before you have the right to tell him how much his feet hurt.


Again I never said staying with the person is dishonorable the only time it is dishonorable is if you are continuously being abused. However staying with the person and going and killing the AP is sure as hell dishonorable. How is that pretzel logic? 

If your perspective is you can only be honorable if you punish the wrongdoer which is how this quote sounds like to me. 



> and maybe I'm being naive considering what each of us has experienced, but I still hold onto and place value in concepts like right, wrong, honor, integrity, etc. Now clearly, not everyone else does, which doesn't mean for those of us that do, there may be worse things than an "ass beating" ... like not being able to look at yourself in the mirror. A lot depends on the personalities and the circumstances.


then how can you still be married to someone who cheated on you? If you want to go beat the guys ass to get revenge then go for it, but this seems like a disconnect to me. Maybe I read your quote wrong. Again my post didn't say that in the most artful way. I agree.


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## ddude23

I did want to hurt the other man, I did wish for something bad to happen to him. But me thinking about him or looking for revenge allows me to stay in this situation I just want to get away from forever. I have days where I'm happy, and days were I'm a complete wreck. Thankfully I have gotten to the point to if the cheating ***** told me she wanted me back I would say no. She gave me some of my best memories, but also some of my worst. I find getting to this point a big step in my recovery. Up until a week ago I probably would of taken her back honestly.


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## commonsenseisn't

ddude23 said:


> Thankfully I have gotten to the point to if the cheating ***** told me she wanted me back I would say no. She gave me some of my best memories, but also some of my worst. I find getting to this point a big step in my recovery. Up until a week ago I probably would of taken her back honestly.


I can attest that this is a milestone in your life and you are now turning a corner toward a better path of happiness. Remember it's a process, not an event. Also sometimes you will regress a little on your path, but you'll get there. Good luck.


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## Archangel2

@ddude23 - Hope you are doing well


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Ddude,

How is it hanging?


----------

