# Husband's "Other Woman"



## Dark Nova

My husband has a female friend he met at a conference out of state a few years ago. They keep in touch with text messages. She always texts late at night and asks my husband to call her because she wants to talk. 
Its 2:17 am and he just left the bed to go call her downstairs. Whenever they talk, its until 4 or 5 am. I asked him not to call her. I told him I wasn't happy with this and he just groaned and brushed past me.
He tells me that since we got married, he hasn't been able to see his friends as much as he used to and that he thinks I don't want him to have any friends. I think I have been fair by allowing him to have a friend over today, he went out with someone else on Wednesday and he spent 8 hours at another friend's house last weekend. 
I moved so far to be here with him and I am all alone. My friends and family live on the other side of the world and he feels he doesn't see his friends enough? 
I don't know how much more I can take. What's the point in me even telling him what I want from him if he does whatever he wants anyway? 
He's 28 and needs to grow up and leave his teenage years behind.


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## EleGirl

The two of you need to spend about 15 hours a week doing date-like things together. After that number of hours is met, then each of you can do things with friends. It takes 15 hours a week time togetherto keep passion in a marriage.

It sounds like your husband does do things with friends. And it sounds like you object to him having a FEMALE friend and having an affair. He's having at least an emotional affair if not a physcal one as well.

Have you checked the messages on his cell? Does he use a computer to communicate with her?

You need to get hard evidence of the affair as he will deny the affair until you have this.. .and even after you have information.

What do you know about this woman? Is she married?

By the way, why don't you have any friends? You need to make some.


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## Dark Nova

My husband swears they are just friends, but he'd say that if they weren't anyway. They only communicate through texts messages and he deletes them after he reads them. The few times I have called him out, he'll show me the messages and they have been innocent. The other woman is engaged but her fiance is out of state working so I guess she is lonely. Well I am too, so she can get in line.
I haven't made any friends here yet. I have been here for 9 months and haven't been able to get a job in the small town I live in and I have been applying to college but haven't heard anything back yet. The only people I have met are his friends and family and outside of talking to complete strangers on the street, I don't know how else to meet people.
This town is tiny. The only entertainment is the local bar. I don't want to hang out in bars looking for friends of my own. I'm also an atheist, so please no one mention the local church. Besides, the local church is very selective about who they let into their congregation and my in laws and husband have made themselves very unpopular over there. Again, very small town with very small thoughts.
Husband also likes to tell me he never had this problem with previous girlfriends. I had to remind him that previous girlfriends all lived just down the road and didn't have far to go to be back with their family and friends.


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## moxy

Dark Nova said:


> He tells me that since we got married, he hasn't been able to see his friends as much as he used to and that he thinks I don't want him to have any friends.


Classic cheater line. He's testing marriage boundaries to see how much he can get away with regarding other women. You need to decide what is acceptable to you and what isn't. It sounds fishy to me that he is talking to other women for hours at a time in the middle of the night. Sounds more like a girlfriend than a friend. You need to address this or it will get worse.


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## Dollystanford

it's not acceptable for you husband to be talking to other women at 2am - full stop 

the fact that he even thinks it is is bizarre, how would he feel if you were leaving your marital bed to talk to some man at all hours??

of course he hasn't seen his friends as much - none of us do when we get married, and you've moved away from people for him and his priority should be you, not his friends

if he wanted to live the life of a 17 year old boy he shouldn't have got married, god these people get on my nerves!

my temptation is to tell you to pack up your stuff, move back home and leave his sorry ass - but I know it isn't that easy. You need to nip this in the bud though, and if he won't give it up you have a hard decision to make - good luck x


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## EleGirl

Dark Nova,

What room in the house does your husband go to when he talks with her... espcially late at night? You might want to consider hiding a VAR (voice activated recorder) in that room. 

I have no doubt that there is more going on than just friendly chat. If you can get their conversation... even just his side of it. You will have absolute proof of what is going on.


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## Confused_and_bitter

EleGirl said:


> Dark Nova,
> 
> What room in the house does your husband go to when he talks with her... espcially late at night? You might want to consider hiding a VAR (voice activated recorder) in that room.
> 
> I have no doubt that there is more going on than just friendly chat. If you can get their conversation... even just his side of it. You will have absolute proof of what is going on.


Totally agree with EleGirl.

Regarding his line about not seeing his friends, when I first talked to H about stepping away from his AP (didn't know he was in an EA at the time) he said I'm trying to take away the only friend he had. That was a line of bullsh!t just like the one your H told you.

Nip this in the bud, friends don't have secret phone calls in the middle of the night that last for hours all the time and if everything was as innocent as he says why delete all the text messages? Sure he showed you some safe ones to throw you off, my H had the nerve to introduce me to his AP so that I wouldn't feel threatened by her. Do your research read up on some threads in the CWI section and I'm sorry you are here (((hugs)))


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## Peachy Cat

ANY TIME a husband chooses another woman over his wife, he is at the brink of cheating-IMHO. WHY else would he continually do something (something that is not required, not work related, not helping his life, not helping his marriage, etc.) that he knows upsets his wife? Why? because he's choosing the OW over his wife--whether it's physical or emotional, it doesn't matter; he makes a choice to "brush past", to "hide downstairs", to continue giving more credence to someone other than the one he vowed to love. He has already made the OW #1, the wife is #2 at best.


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## Shaggy

Time for your husband to realize that the rules of a married life and a single life are different because he made a commitment for life to you. First, meeting other omen at conferences to the point of exchanging numbers etc ties serious effort. You have to keep putting effort into building a reltionship with a new person in the short time of a conference. So just what heck is he up to, and why is he getting to know people on such a personal level, sorry, but that is what single people do, not married men, he wasn't talking business he was seeking out a female to start a relationship with.

Now he's dong even more, he is choosing to spend hours at night giving her attention and validation and extending the relationship. This ain't business is a close personal intimate relationship done in wee hours of the night. Sounds like an EA and if allowed to continue the next time a PA.

Just because shes engaged doesn't mean she isn't fishing for men.

He needs to cut it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Goldmember357

not good


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## Dark Nova

Thanks everyone. I knew I couldn't be the only person that found this behavior unacceptable. I know it may sounds like denial, but its hard to believe my husband is in a EA and I am a very jealous person to begin with. He was engaged previously several years ago and his fiancee cheated on him a couple of times. He said it was the worst thing in the world and that he cried for weeks. 
I think part of the problem is that my husband has this need to be there for people. ALL the time. Whenever someone needs him, off he goes to the rescue. 
We have had many arguments about it and he feels like I am too possessive and jealous. I think I am in the right to be angry about late night calls to other women. He thinks I am over reacting. 
When I asked him to put himself in my position, he said he'd be fine with me talking to other men, because he trusts me. Its a total cop out. Makes me feel like a selfish child.
And get this, husband and other woman met at a psychology convention because they are both psychs. he told her last night that I have been upset lately and she offered to call me and give me some therapy. Isn't she just so f*cking awesome?
I am very tempted to go back home for a few months for some me time, but I have a feeling once I am gone, these late night phone calls will be more frequent.


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## TBT

Have you asked your husband what they actually have to talk about from 2 'til 4-5 in the morning? Truth is,if it bothers you he shouldn't be doing it.Seems shady to me,because you would think if she had something really important to talk about at that time,she would be calling her fiance if anyone,even if he is out of state.

On the chance that your situation is resolved to your satisfaction,then you might be able to make some new friends of your own through volunteering,and maybe there are some women's social groups in your area that fit in with your hobbies and interests.

I feel bad for where you're at and you shouldn't have to feel lonely in your marriage and you're not over-reacting.If it were me I'd be calling her up and saying "f*ck you and your therapy and where the hell to you get the gall to judge what's right or wrong for me and my marriage from such a biased and self-serving perspective"
Sorry,but you need to kick some ass hard and get to the bottom of it.No pun intended.Take care.


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## Coffee Amore

Don't go crawling back home like a little child. This is YOUR husband, YOUR marriage. Lay down the law, woman. Don't crawl in the corner and have a pity party for yourself. 

If you go away, this situation is only going to escalate. 




Dark Nova said:


> We have had many arguments about it and he feels like I am too possessive and jealous. I think I am in the right to be angry about late night calls to other women. He thinks I am over reacting.
> When I asked him to put himself in my position, he said he'd be fine with me talking to other men, because he trusts me. Its a total cop out. Makes me feel like a selfish child.
> (


The danger in asking a person who is breaking boundaries how they would like it if you did the same thing is they'll say it's ok if you did it. They say that to deflect blame and guilt.


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## vi_bride04

.........if my H was in bed with me and got up to take a phone call from ANOTHER WOMAN and was on the phone for HOURS....???!!!!!

OMG. I would lose it. That action in itsself says he would rather interact through a telephone with her than interact with me physically....it would not fly. I would march my @$$ downstairs and sit right next to him to hear what was so important to talk about at that hour of the night. 

I mean, it must be pretty interesting to get a married man laying next to HIS WFIE out of bed. If it was casual conversation, he should be able to chat next to you about whatever it is they are talking about!!

You need to start doing some detective work. Especially If you don't know some of the answers to questions like what it is they really talk about.


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## Acorn

Dark Nova said:


> I think I have been fair by allowing him to have a friend over today...
> 
> I don't know how much more I can take. What's the point in me even telling him what I want from him if he does whatever he wants anyway?
> 
> He's 28 and needs to grow up and leave his teenage years behind.


Dark Nova, I agree with everyone here that your husband's behavior needs to stop and you are on the right track.

One thing that I did want to add is that if your marital dynamic is that you "allow" him to have a friend over and tell him what you want from him, and you really start pushing the mother/child dynamic on him, then I wouldn't be surprised if he's telling his new woman how free and easy she is and how controlling you are.

I am NOT trying to blame shift this on you but I really could see this mother/child thing in play here, and that's a definite marriage killer IMO.


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## turnera

How long have you been married?


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## Dollystanford

she offered YOU therapy???

what a C*NT (sorry to be vulgar ladies but really)


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## Browncoat

Dollystanford said:


> what a C*NT (sorry to be vulgar ladies but really)


Vulgar? I assumed you were calling someone a Count:










.... sssuuuurree let's go with that.


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## Dollystanford

ha ha sorry, I'm english in my defence - we use it as a day-to-day word


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## angelpixie

Don't do what I did -- which is to blame yourself for the way you feel. What he's doing is inappropriate for a married man. Period. There are all kinds of boundary violations going on here. He obviously has some boundary issues if he feels he always needs to be there to help people and doesn't know when to draw the line between meeting a colleague at a conference (assuming that's even true) and turning it into late-night chat and gabfests. She has boundary issues by offering to be your therapist. You don't need a therapist to deal with them. They need therapy to figure out why they're doing what they're doing. 
Read up on the laws in your state regarding VARs. If you use one, it may end up being for your own knowledge and nothing else, because he could use it against you if things get ugly. But at least you'll get some answers. If he uses the family computer, you can also have a keylogger installed. 

Trust your gut. And realize that his response to your concern is a very big red flag. If he's doing this now, and there's nothing done to make him stop, he'll just keep doing it with other women.


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## diwali123

This sounds like an EA to me. I totally agree on the recording. Also get a key logger on your computer and see what he's been up to. There is no excuse for your husband to be doing this! 
I'm so sorry. I have a degree in psych, worked in a mental hospital and been in counseling off and on a lot. One thing I know to be true is most people in the field are in it to heal themselves or someone else they're close to. Just because someone is a psychologist doesn't mean they're emotionally healthy at all. 
Again I'm sorry. I think it's hard sometimes for people in the field because it feels like you can't relate to other people. When you make friends with someone who gets it, it's a powerful thing. He might not even see it as an EA right now but I bet you anything she knows exactly what she's doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lyris

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dollystanford

diwali123 said:


> I'm so sorry. I have a degree in psych, worked in a mental hospital and been in counseling off and on a lot. One thing I know to be true is most people in the field are in it to heal themselves or someone else they're close to. Just because someone is a psychologist doesn't mean they're emotionally healthy at all.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


if you're a tree you hide in the woods....


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## diwali123

The other thing is dual relationships are unethical. You don't counsel friends, relatives or friends of friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Po12345

EA, I know, did this when I first started dating. Pretended it want so... Did EXACT same thing, took calls very late at night, find out later, my gf was listening in the hallway crying silently. It want even what the conversation was about, it was the lack of respect I showed her in taking the calls.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dark Nova

Thanks everyone. Its really hard to deal with all this at the moment. I am getting so frustrated trying to get my husband to understand why I don't like this situation. Whenever it comes to his friends, he gets very defensive and takes their side when I say something. It even gets to the point where he makes childish remarks like "You don't even like my friends" and "Do you when the last time I saw so and so was? I don't get to see my friends anymore".
Cry me a f*cking river. Honestly. Sometimes I feel like I am married to a child.


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## diwali123

He's diverting from the topic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sallywebb

Hmm, that doesn't sound good at all. It does seem like there's an underlying problem there somewhere. The fact that he says he doesn't see his friends too much, it might be something to do with you nagging him everytime he sees them (which makes him feel like the time he spent doesn't actually count)

But anyway, I think what you should really do is to tell him that he can be friends with this female friends, but talking to her past 2 am is a no-no. It's a boundary you don't want him to cross. After all he's MARRIED. Last thing you want is for him to get into some emotional affair with this lady - and yes granted, he's not doing any physical affair with her like what the other member above said. But I actually think emotional affair is probably more dangerous in the long run! Actually, ages ago I've written an article to pretty much describe emotional affair - you can read it here if u want: Emotional Affair vs physical affair

As for you, finding friends is never easy, but it's not impossible. What about joining some gym or some classes you're interested in?


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## that_girl

Total EA  I couldn't imagine what I'd do if Hubs got out of bed at 2am to talk until 4 or 5 with anyone...if they arent' dying, suicidal, or family (with BIG news or an emergency), it's just inappropriate.

A male friend called me at 11 the other night  wtf. I didn't even answer, but I heard his voicemail the next day...he wanted me to proofread a paper for him. Fine. But i texted him the next day to say i don't take calls after 9pm...Just the nerve to call someone who is married after 9, to me, is rude. My single friends don't 'get' that sometimes. If you do call after 9, it better be a freakin emergency. That goes for everyone.

OP, I think you have every right to be upset and suspicious. I would lay down the law and set your boundaries and stick to them. I think if Hubs did this, the first thing I'd do would be to lock the bedroom door when he left the room. Then I'd get some stuff together in a bag for him so in the morning, he could leave.

No joke. This is such a slap in the face from your husband. He's putting HER over you and your marriage. BIG NO NO.


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## SabrinaBlue

No part of this story is working for me. He met her at a conference and exchanged phone numbers. That's usually code for "had an affair while out of town" or "met hot chick at conference and think I might get lucky later." I'm not a typically suspicious person, but man ... that's just a huge red flag.

Red flag number two is taking the phone calls at odd hours. Red flag number three is taking those calls to another room, rendering them secret. This is at the least a very serious EA. How many red flags do you need before you demand that he cut contact?


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## Maricha75

Confused_and_bitter said:


> Totally agree with EleGirl.
> 
> Regarding his line about not seeing his friends, when I first talked to H about stepping away from his AP (didn't know he was in an EA at the time) *he said I'm trying to take away the only friend he had.* That was a line of bullsh!t just like the one your H told you.
> 
> Nip this in the bud, friends don't have secret phone calls in the middle of the night that last for hours all the time and if everything was as innocent as he says why delete all the text messages? Sure he showed you some safe ones to throw you off, my H had the nerve to introduce me to his AP so that I wouldn't feel threatened by her. Do your research read up on some threads in the CWI section and I'm sorry you are here (((hugs)))


That right there is what my DH said to me... well, almost verbatim. He said "I guess I'm not allowed to have any friends then." I told him "You can have friends. You can have female friends. Just not THAT friend!" And he cut contact with her, because I asked him to. She flipped out, as I suspected she would. And he still won't acknowledge that his was an EA. He would text her after I would kiss him good night, telling him i love him. He went to bed early because of the meds his psych has him on. He still does, but he doesn't guard his phone like he used to. I recognized the signs because 1. I was involved in a couple myself, which ended before I learned of his. and 2. I did research on it to be certain. 

It still eats away at me that I betrayed him like that. However, it's not as bad as it used to be. It bothers me that he won't acknowledge his own. But, I know there are a few possible reasons why he won't... and I will address them with therapist because I know he won't just come out and tell me, point blank. But we will get to the bottom of it all. Of that, I am confident.

As for the OW giving the OP therapy... is she out of her friggen mind??? What good can possibly come of that? I mean, let's say you did. She would be privy to personal information that your H isn't already telling her. And she can easily use THAT to manipulate the situation in your favor. She wouldn't be your doctor, she would be doing this "as a favor" to the H, right? Yea.... not gonna happen, sweetheart. The chick who my DH had his EA with was an online friend of both of us... and she was privy to MY information BEFORE their A began.

Also, I find it quite interesting that they went to a psych convention, and now they are carrying on an EA... and they BOTH know it is one. Come on! Texting/calling in the middle of the night? They know. And being psychs, they know how to cover it up...or how to TRY to.... chances are, they have heard it all!


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## Maricha75

Dollystanford said:


> she offered YOU therapy???
> 
> what a C*NT (sorry to be vulgar ladies but really)


No, no... I usually hate that word... but in this case, it applies. >.<


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## Verushkita

hey Dark, you should totally take her up on her offer. And then you give her a piece of therapy. something like, I'm not comfortable with you calling my husband - Mr. Nice Guy. you are an engaged woman right, well what if your soon to be husband was reaching out to someone else, with late calls and texting? I don't think you would appreciate that, I certainly don't.

Dark, get her number!!!!


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## questar1

In barely surviving something similar, my husband and I came up with a marriage-saving formula. A "friend" like that has to be friends with the other spouse FIRST. I am now the gateway to my dh's "friends." They phone ME if they want to talk to him!

The funny thing was, this was first put to the test on me. A colleague who lives out of town kept insisting on putting me up for the night during conferences in his city and I always said no. But this time, following our new rule, I said, "Larry, you have to talk with my husband about my spending the night at your house." Larry promptly found a reason to withdraw his invitation! Gee....

I LOVE Verushkita's idea of agreeing to do "therapy" with the "friend." Speak up and tell her where she can get off. Tell her, Hands off my husband, I know exactly what you're up to and I'll report you to the state licensing board. 

Do it.

Never, ever be ashamed to defend your marriage. Or what's a marriage for?


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## iheartlife

Chiming in late, and sorry if someone said this already.

This is a classic emotional affair as so many have already said.

*Please get the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass*, it will explain to you in very detailed terms how this is an emotional affair. If you can get him to read just a chapter or two, perhaps his eyes will be opened. If not, insist that he attend marriage counseling (make sure to find one trained in infidelity).

What I also recently understood from the book His Needs, Her Needs is that married people are extremely vulnerable to falling in love with someone outside the marriage by doing NOTHING MORE than 1. expressing care for them (not love, just care) and 2. listening and demonstrating care. The mix is so powerful that Dr. Harley (author of His Needs / Her Needs) says that this type of affection should not be demonstrated for anyone apart from one's wife, children, parents, siblings.

What is appalling, and frightening, is that he is not even bothering to hide it. 

My husband was in a long-term emotional affair, so I know from whence I speak...


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## TBT

Maybe Dark Nova went super-nova!


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## questar1

iheartlife said:


> Chiming in late, and sorry if someone said this already.
> 
> This is a classic emotional affair as so many have already said.
> 
> *Please get the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass*, it will explain to you in very detailed terms how this is an emotional affair. If you can get him to read just a chapter or two, perhaps his eyes will be opened. If not, insist that he attend marriage counseling (make sure to find one trained in infidelity).
> 
> What I also recently understood from the book His Needs, Her Needs is that married people are extremely vulnerable to falling in love with someone outside the marriage by doing NOTHING MORE than 1. expressing care for them (not love, just care) and 2. listening and demonstrating care. The mix is so powerful that Dr. Harley (author of His Needs / Her Needs) says that this type of affection should not be demonstrated for anyone apart from one's wife, children, parents, siblings.
> 
> What is appalling, and frightening, is that he is not even bothering to hide it.
> 
> My husband was in a long-term emotional affair, so I know from whence I speak...


:iagree:


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## Goldmember357

this is not good at all

i had a female friend who used to be an ex who i started talking to again and i had to end it. She was interested and that could threaten my marriage.

I think its not best for married couples to have opposite sex friends it will only lead to problems. In my experience at least


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## sallywebb

Yeah I know! I mean, how do we even know if that girl knows your husband is actually a MARRIED man. For all we know, she could've made advances on him because she thinks there's a chance!

That's just proper red flags


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## Jacked

Dark, I really hope you don't have any kids. If you do, then you have some complications to work through, but let me point out:

most abusers (just stay with me here) remove their victims away from family and friends, then make them feel like they are unreasonable and unworthy. The victim has no one to turn to or to help keep tabs on their abuser's behavior. He gets away with whatever he wants and puts up a front as if he are really doing you and the world a favor. You can pick straws with the definition of abuse if you like. But if you don't have kids, I'd get the H*ll out of there. He won't change how he feels if he resents you already. Not now. Not ever. I'm sorry for that sad prognosis. But...This is what your life will always be. You should face that now, even if you don't want to believe it. He has shown his colors. If you would rather try working it out with "Mort Fertell" or some other program, I would caution:

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." 

I'm so sorry. I wish you the very best of luck. Have courage. The heartache will heal. You deserve to be treated right. ;-) We're all with you.


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## sirdano

Yea the 2am thing is a little weird and if he can't talk in front of you then want are they really talking about until 5am???


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